1



### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5

6


### Public Hearing on 7



### Standards of Performance of Greenhouse Emissions 8


### From New Stationary Sources: 9


### Electric Utility Generating Units 10

11

12

13

14


### 9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. 15


### Thursday, February 6, 2014 16

17


### EPA East Building 18



### Room B 19



### 1201 Constitution Avenue, N.W. 20


### Washington, D.C. 20210 21

22

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### MORNING SESSION 1



### EPA Panel: 2


### BOB WAYLAND, Group Leader 3


### Energy Strategies Group, EPA Office of 4


### Air Quality Planning and Standards 5

6



### BILL STEVENS, EPA, 7



### Clean Air Market Division 8


### Washington, DC 9

10



### CHRISTIAN FELLNER, 11


### Energy Strategies Group 12


### Research Triangle Park, NC 13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

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### AFTERNOON SESSION 1



### EPA PANEL: 2

3


### JULIE ROSENBERG, Chief 4



### State and Local Branch 5


### EPA Climate Protection Partnership Division 6

7



### JIM KETCHAN

- COLWILL, 8


### Office of Policy Analy sis and Review 9

10



### CHRISTIAN FELLNER, 11


### Energy Strategies Group 12


### Research Triangle Park, NC 13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2


### Morning Session 3



### PUBLIC COMMENTS: 4


### PAUL BILLINGS, American Lung Association 13 5


### LAURA ANDERKO, Scanlon Endowed Share & Values 6



### B ased Hea lthcare 19 7


### ANDREW KNUDSEN, ESQ, Hunton & Williams 24 8


### SEAN HOLLIHAN, Healthy Air Coalition 9


### Virginia 31 10


### BARBARA GOTTLIEB, Environment & Health at 11


### Physicians for Social Responsibility 36 12


### JANE DIFENBACH, Citizen 4 2 13


### JOHN ELWOOD, Belov edPlan e t.com 48 14



### ERIC HOLDSWORT H, Edison Electric Institute 52 15


### REV. TERENCE ELLEN, Interfaith Moral Action 16



### O n C limate 59 17


### REV. M. DELE, Virginia's Interfaith Power 18


### & Light Affiliation 63 19


### STEVEN PARKS, Citizen 67 20



### DAVID DONNIGER, NR DC 71 21

22

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### PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 1


### LIH YOUNG, Citizen 78 2


### SAM LOCKHART, Citizen 83 3


### BENJAMIN LONGSTRENTH, Natural Resources 4



### Defense Council 87 5


### MOLLY RAUCH, Mom's Clean Air Force 94 6


### ZACKERY GOOD, Virginia Conservatio n Network 99 7


### JOHN HILL, General Board of Church & Society 8



### of the United Methodist Church 102 9


### RICHARD CIZIK, New Evangelical Partnership 10



### for the Common Good 106 11


### SARAH SCHERSCHLIGT, Peace Lutheran Church 112 12


### SARA CHIEFFO, League of C ons ervation Voters 117 13


### ASHTON BAILEY, Air & Energy , Staff attorney 14



### with Greenlaw 122 15


### GREG BERTELSEN, National Association of 16



### Manufacturers 129 17


### JOHN CARTMILL, Fairfax Climate Watch 135 18


### LINDA MULLER, Rappahannock Group 140 19



### D ARYL DOWNING, Citizen 143 20


### TANYA ROLAND, Citizen 145 21

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### PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 1


### ANNE USHER, ECR Club

- Virginia Chapter 15 0 2


### CARLA ARONSOHN, Environmental America 15 4 3


### RICHARD BALL, Citizen 159 4


### JACKIE WEIDNER, Nicole Her nandez Hammer 16 6 5


### MARK MAGANA, Green Latinos 17 2 6


### LUCIA OLIVA HENNELLY, Citizen 17 6 7


### MARTIN WITCHGOR, Citizen 18 2 8


### GLEN BESA, Sierra Club, Virginia Chapter 186 9


### JAMES MULLINS, Citizen 189 10


### TYLA MATTESON, Citizen 19 2 11



### WILFRED CAND LER, Greater Annapolis 12



### Environment Action 194 13



### -- AFTERNOON SESSION

-- 202 14


### TIMOTHY WHITCOMBE, Citizen 198 15


### SARAH HUAZANO, Citizen 20 7 16


### MOLLY SIMON, Citizen 210 17


### ANDY LUDWIG, Citizen 21 3 18


### JESSICA ECKDISH, Sierra Club 2 19 19


### SUSAN STILLMAN, Citizen 22 3 20


### SARAH BUCCI, Environment, Virginia 22 8 21

22

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### PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 1


### MARK SHERIDAN, League of Conservation 2



### Voters 23 2 3


### SARAH HAGAN, Sierra Club 23 5 4


### ELIZABETH OUZTS, Environment North Carolina 2 39 5


### SARAH FROST, Environment America 243 6


### Madison Mathiasen, Environment America 246 7


### HARVEY FERNBACH, Citizen 251 8


### KRISTEN COOK, Citizen 254 9


### PARIS CARR, Citizen 257 10


### MARTHA ELLEN WINGFIELD, Citizen 258 11



### MALLEN MOENCH, Utah Physician's for a 12



### Health y Environment 262 13


### DONALD GURNEY, Sierra Club 267 14


### JUDY KOENICK, Citizen 273 15



### MARK SIBLEY, N ational Wildlife Federation 280 16


### RYAN KINGSTON, Citizen 286 17



### JENNIE GOSCHE, National Wildlife Federation 290 18


### DANIEL MARSHALL, Citizen 294 19



### GRANT LAHMAN N, Small Business Majority 297 20

21

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1



### MORNING SESSION 2



### ( 9:00 a.m. ) 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Good morning. I'd like to 4


### thank you for attending this public hearing 5


### today. My na me is Bob Wayland. I am the group 6


### leader for the Energy Strategies Group in EPA's 7


### Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards. My 8


### group was responsible for the proposal that we're 9


### here to talk about today. 10


### I will be chairing this morning's hearing 11



### sessio n, and joining me here on the panel to my 12


### left are Christian Fellner, who is part of the 13


### Energy Strategies Group in Research, Triangle 14


### Park. And Bill Stevens to my right who is with 15



### EPA's Clean Air Markets Division here in 16


### Washington, D.C. 17



### We are here t oday to listen to your 18


### comments on EPA's proposed carbon pollution 19


### standard for new power plants. EPA published the 20


### proposed standards in the Federal Register on 21


### January 8th, 2014. This common sense step under 22

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### the Clean Air Act would, for the first time, set 1


### national limits on the amount of carbon pollution 2


### power plants built in the future can emit. 3


### EPA is proposing to set an emission 4


### standard of 1,100 pounds of carbon dioxide, or 5



### CO2 per megawatt hour on a gross output basis for 6



### new fossil fuel fired ut ility boilers and for 7


### integrated gasification combined cycle units, or 8



### IGCC units. 9


### The EPA is also proposing standards for 10


### natural gas

- fired combustion turbines. Those 11


### proposed standards are 1,000 pounds of CO2 per 12


### megawatt hour for large combustion turb ine units, 13


### and 1,100 pounds of CO2 per megawatt hour for 14



### smaller units. 15


### The Agency's proposal does not apply to 16


### existing units. EPA's proposed standard reflects 17


### the ongoing trend in the power sector to build 18


### cleaner, lower emitting facilities. The prop osal 19


### is flexible and would help minimize carbon 20


### pollution throughout the deployment of the same 21


### types of modern technologies that power companies 22

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### are already using to build our next generation of 1


### power plants. 2


### EPA's proposal would ensure that this 3



### progress toward a cleaner, safer, and more modern 4


### power sector continues well into the future. 5


### Today we will be accepting oral comments 6


### on all aspects of this proposal and we will 7


### prepare a written transcript of the hearing. The 8


### transcript will be available as pa rt of the 9



### official record or docket for this rule and will 10


### be placed in the regulatory docket. 11


### We are also accepting written comments on 12


### the proposed rule until March 10th, 2014. 13


### Out in the registration area, which is 14


### located in the lobby just outside of this room, 15



### there are handouts with detailed information 16


### outlining how you submit written comments by 17


### mail, fax, or electronically by e

- mail. EPA will 18


### consider your comments as we move forward to 19


### complete a final rule. Written statements and 20


### supporting i nformation submitted during the 21


### comment period will be considered with the same 22

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### weight as any oral comments and supporting 1


### information presented here at today's hearing. 2


### Now let me describe the logistics for 3


### today's hearing. I'm going to call schedule 4



### spe akers to the table two at a time. When it is 5


### your turn to speak, please state your name, your 6


### affiliation before you begin your testimony. It 7


### would also help out the court reporter if you 8


### would please spell your last name to make sure 9



### that it's in the re cord correctly. 10


### In order to be fair to everyone, we will 11


### limit your testimony to five minutes each and ask 12


### that everyone remain at the table until both 13


### speakers in the pair have finished. So if you're 14


### the first speaker, when you're done please remain 15



### at t he table until the second person is finished. 16


### After you finish your testimony, members 17


### of the panel here may ask clarifying questions if 18


### they're unclear on any of your testimony. If you 19


### would like to provide us a written copy of your 20


### testimony, you can gi ve a copy to the 21


### registration desk or leave it here with us. 22

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### We have a little time

- keeping system here 1


### which consists of a green, yellow, and red light 2


### to help you keep track of your five minutes to 3


### speak. When you begin speaking the green light 4



### will come on. The yellow light will illuminate 5


### when you have a minute left to speak. And when 6


### the red light comes on, I will have to ask you to 7


### stop to try to keep the hearing on schedule. If 8


### you run a few minutes

-- I mean, a few seconds 9


### over, that's fine. But we like to limit 10


### everybody to five minutes because we do have a 11


### long day today. 12


### Today's hearing is scheduled from 9:00 13


### a.m. and will continue until 8:00 p.m. or later 14


### if necessary, depending on the number of 15


### speakers. The hearing will go on recess during 16


### the scheduled lunch break from 12:00 to 1:00, and 17


### a dinner break from 5:00 until 6:00 p.m. We will 18


### reconvene promptly at 1:00 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. 19


### respectively. 20


### If you would like to testify but have not 21


### yet registered to do so, please sign up at the 22

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### regi stration table out in the lobby outside of 1


### this room. For those who have already registered 2


### to speak, we have tried to accommodate your 3


### requests for a specific time slot. We ask for 4


### your patience as we proceed through the list of 5


### speakers. We may need t o make some adjustments 6


### as the day progresses. We do realize that the 7


### weather in the Northeast is causing travel 8


### problems for some people who were scheduled to be 9


### here, so we may have to make some adjustments to 10


### accommodate those people as they arrive. 11



### If any questions arise throughout the 12


### day, please see one of us here or staff at the 13


### registration table for assistance. And again, 14


### I'd like to thank you all for taking the time to 15


### be here today to give us your comments on the 16


### proposed rule. And with that, let's get started. 17


### Our first two speakers will be Mr. Paul 18


### Billings and Ms. Laura Anderko. 19


### MR. BILLINGS: Good morning. I'm Paul 20


### Billings, B

- I

- L

- L

- I

- N

- G

- S, Senior Vice President, 21


### Advocacy and Education for the American Lung 22

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### Association. 1


### The American Lung Association is pleased 2


### to support the Environmental Protection Agency's 3


### proposed standards for carbon pollution from 4


### power plants. This rule is setting the stage for 5


### the next generation of America's power plants to 6



### be the least toxic and most modern in t he world. 7


### The American Lung Association believes a 8


### power plant should not be allowed to emit 9


### unlimited amounts of carbon pollution into the 10


### air. Scientists warn that the buildup of carbon 11


### pollution will create warmer temperatures, which 12



### will increase the risk of unhealthful smog 13


### levels. Any increase in smog means more 14


### childhood asthma attacks and complications for 15


### those with lung disease. Addressing carbon 16


### pollution will help protect public health. 17


### Higher temperatures can enhance 18



### conditions for ozone formation, even with the 19


### steps that are in place to reduce ozone. 20


### Evidence warns that changes in the climate are 21


### likely to increase unhealthy ozone levels in the 22

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### future in large parts of the United States. 1


### To protect human health the Nation needs 2



### strong m easures to reduce climate change in 3


### ozone. Proposed standards for power plants are 4


### an important first step to address large 5


### stationary sources' contribution to climate 6


### change. 7


### Ozone is a highly reactive gas that is a 8


### form of oxygen, commonly known as sm og. Ozone is 9


### a pervasive pollutant that forms in the 10


### atmosphere when hydrocarbon vapors react with 11


### oxides of nitrogen in the presence of sunlight 12



### and heat. 13


### The American Lung Association's State of 14


### the Air Report shows that more than 119 million 15



### American s, nearly four in 10 people, live in 16


### areas where the air is unhealthy because of ozone 17


### pollution. The report is based on the 75 part 18


### per billion ozone standard, a standard that the 19


### science shows is clearly too high to protect 20


### public health. If President Obama and EPA had 21


### followed the law and the science, the ozone 22

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### standard would be much more protective of public 1



### health. 2


### When a person inhales ozone, it reacts 3


### chemically with the body's internal tissues, 4


### causing inflammation like a sunburn of the lung. 5



### T his respiratory irritant is found in large areas 6


### across the country and breathing ozone may cause 7


### serious harm to health, including premature 8


### death, shortness of breath and chest pain, 9


### wheezing and coughing, inflammation of the lining 10


### of the lung and incre ased asthma attacks. 11



### New evidence indicates that ozone is 12


### likely to cause cardiovascular harm, may cause 13


### reproductive and developmental harm, including 14


### low birth weight and harm to the central nervous 15


### system. People most at risk include people with 16


### lung d iseases such as asthma, emphysema, and 17



### chronic bronchitis; children because children's 18


### airways are smaller, still developing, and 19


### children have higher rates of respiration, and 20


### they're often outdoors more as well; people who 21



### work and exercise outdoors; and our seniors, age 22

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### 65 and older. 1


### In sum, ozone pollution is a serious 2


### health threat that impacts millions of Americans. 3


### Reducing carbon emissions will help us fight to 4


### reduce ozone and will reduce the risk of lung 5


### disease and other health problems associa ted with 6


### the changing climate. 7


### We urge EPA to strengthen the carbon 8


### pollution proposal in several key ways; stronger 9


### standards will spur the adoption of the cleaner 10


### sources of energy. Our children and their 11


### children deserve no less. Therefore, to ensure 12


### the next generation of power plants are the most 13


### modern and least toxic, we urge EPA to adopt a 14


### tighter than 1,000 pound per megawatt hour carbon 15


### dioxide standard for all natural gas combined 16


### cycle plants, reflecting the achievements of the 17


### best performing plants in operation today. 18


### The American Lung Association believes 19


### that the U.S. should not continue to expand its 20



### coal

- fire generating capacity because of the 21


### extensive scope of health risks associated with 22

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### the use of coal, the disproportionate impact on 1


### local communities and the long lifespan of 2


### electric generating units. 3


### We do appreciate the EPA's proposed 4


### standard for simple cycle turbines that sell more 5


### than one third of their potential electric output 6


### to the grid each year. However, EPA should 7



### inco rporate strong standards for all simple cycle 8



### turbines. We'll discuss all these issues in 9


### greater detail in our technical comments that we 10


### will file with the agency next month. 11


### Finally, EPA must propose new standards 12


### for all existing power plants in June, 2014. Any 13


### further delay in placing strong limits on carbon 14


### pollution from existing power plants shortchanges 15


### our kids and shortchanges our health. Thank you, 16


### very much. 17


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much, Paul. 18


### Bill or Christian do you have clarifying 19



### q uestions? 20


### MR. FELLNER: Just with your technical 21


### comments. In a month will they have 22

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### recommendations for the standard; you said a 1


### tighter standard then natural gas? 2



### MR. BILLINGS: Yes. 3


### MR. FELLNER: For the simple cycle. So 4


### you have that information. 5



### MR. BILLINGS: We'll include that in our 6


### technical comments, yes. 7


### MR. FELLNER: Okay. Thank you. 8


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 9


### MR. BILLINGS: Thank you very much. 10


### MR. WAYLAND: And thank you for staying 11



### under the limit. 12



### Ms. Anderko? 13


### MS. ANDERKO: Hi. My na me is Laura 14



### Anderko; Dr. Laura Anderko. It's A

- N

- D

- E

- R

- K

- O. 15



### And I hold the Scanlon Endowed Share and Values 16


### Based Healthcare at Georgetown University. I 17



### also sit on the board of the Alliance of Nurses 18


### for Healthy Environments. 19


### I am a nurse and a recipie nt of the White 20


### House Champions of Change Award for my work in 21


### climate change and public health. I am here to 22

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### support EPA's proposed new standards for reducing 1


### carbon pollution from existing and future power 2


### plants, which would substantially improve air 3



### q uality and ultimately public health. 4


### Every health professional knows and 5


### learns early on in our studies that air is the 6


### very essence of life. Air is a life force. And 7


### we breathe approximately 35 gallons of air a day, 8


### or about 20,000, 20 to 25,000 respira tions each 9


### day. So think about your breathing right now. 10


### The quality of the air we breathe 11


### strongly impacts our health and our wellbeing, 12


### and our longevity. 13



### The Clean Air Act is one of the Nation's 14


### most important public health laws with a long 15


### history o f success. However, as you know, there 16



### are no national limits on the amount of carbon 17


### pollution that are allowed from power plants. 18


### EPA needs to propose strong limits on carbon 19


### pollution from power plants to fulfill the 20


### mission of the Clean Air Act, and its own mission 21


### which is protecting the public from air pollution 22

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### that endangers health. 1



### There are a number of co

- benefits gained 2


### by reducing air pollution in 2010. A study found 3


### that approximately $1.3 trillion, or nine percent 4


### of the GDP, was gained in public health and 5



### environmental health benefits for a cost of 50 6


### billion, or .4 of GDP. 7


### This reduced pollution lead to less 8


### illness, less days lost in school, less days lost 9


### in work. So it's good for the economy. 10


### Less disabilities and disability and 11



### de aths, less money in our healthcare system 12


### spent, as well as reduced hospitalizations and 13


### other related healthcare costs. And finally it 14


### increased the size of the economy. And this is a 15


### study by Goodstein in 2010. 16


### Carbon pollution is a key contributor t o 17


### climate change. These changes have resulted in a 18


### wide range of health issues, including an 19


### increase in vector borne disease. We're seeing 20


### an expansion of ranges of several vectors such as 21


### ticks and malaria, cardio

- respiratory disease, 22

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### water borne disea se, and for many impacted by 1


### extreme weather events, mental health issues. 2


### We're seeing an increase in Post

- Traumatic Stress 3


### Disorder, particularly those areas hit by 4


### hurricanes, such as Hurricane Sandy and Katrina. 5


### As was mentioned earlier, children are 6



### p articularly vulnerable to poor air quality. As 7



### a former member of EPA's Children's Health 8


### Protection Advisory Committee, we worked 9


### diligently to support EPA's efforts to protect 10


### our children and communities from power plant 11


### pollution. As noted earlier, c hildren are much 12


### more susceptible to health effects of air 13


### pollution because their lungs are still 14


### developing and they often spend more time 15



### outdoors than adults. 16


### Millions of children every year suffer 17


### from asthma. Right here in the District we're 18


### seeing a significant increase in children, 19


### particularly African

- American children who are 20


### hospitalized as a result of poor air quality and 21


### ozone pollution. 22

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### Any increases in smog and ozone will 1


### ultimately mean more childhood asthma attacks and 2



### life

- long issues wit h respiratory health. 3


### Americans support strong limits on power 4


### pollution from power plants, according to a 5


### bipartisan survey conducted by the American Lung 6


### Association. Voters strongly supported EPA's 7


### efforts to update clean air protections. An 8



### astound ing 72 percent of voters surveyed 9


### specifically want EPA to set limits on power 10


### plant carbon pollution. And a two

- to

- one 11


### majority believes that strengthening safeguards 12


### against pollution will create, not destroy jobs, 13


### by encouraging innovation and quite fr ankly 14


### keeping people well enough so that they can do 15


### their jobs. 16


### In closing I would like to underscore 17


### that the proposed carbon standard supports the 18


### mission of the EPA, which is to protect human 19


### health and the environment, and it would move us 20



### closer towa rds improving the public's health. 21


### Thank you for this opportunity to share my 22

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### comments. 1


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, Dr. Anderko. 2


### Any questions? Bill? 3


### MR. STEVENS: No, not today. 4


### MS. ANDERKO: Okay. 5


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 6


### Okay. Our next tw o speakers will be 7



### Andrew Knudsen and Sean Hollihan. And I will 8


### apologize to everyone with pronunciation. If I 9


### mess up your name, please accept my apologies. 10


### Andrew, you

-- 11


### MR. KNUDSEN: Mr. Wayland was actually 12


### right

- on. 13


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. 14



### MR. KNUDSE N: Good morning. My name is 15


### Andrew Knudsen, K

- N

- U

- D

- S

- E

- N. And I'm an 16


### attorney with the law firm of Hunton and 17



### Williams. 18


### I'm here today on behalf of the Utility 19


### Air Regulatory Group, or UARG, which is a not for 20


### profit association of electric generatin g 21


### companies and organizations and national trade 22

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### associations. UARG's purpose is to participate 1


### on behalf of its members collectively in EPA rule 2


### makings and other Clean Air Act proceedings that 3


### affect the interest of electric generators and in 4


### litigation arising from those proceedings. 5


### UARG proposes this repurposed NSPS for 6


### electric generating units. And my statement 7


### today briefly outlines just a few of UARG's 8


### objections. UARG plans to submit detailed 9


### written comments that will more comprehensively 10


### expl ain its reasons for opposing this proposed 11



### rule. 12


### First, EPA bases the proposed standard 13



### for new coal

- fired units on carbon capture and 14


### storage, or CCS, which it assert is the best 15


### system of emission reduction that has been 16


### adequately demonstrated for coal

- fired units. It 17



### is not. 18


### There is not a single commercial scale 19



### coal

- fired power plant in operation anywhere in 20


### the world that captures and sequesters carbon 21



### dioxide with CCS. EPA cannot determine that a 22

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### technology is adequately demonstrated for 1


### reducing CO2 emissions from these units when a 2


### project to demonstrate that technology has yet to 3



### operate. 4


### The projects EPA cites as evidence that 5


### CCS is adequately demonstrated, are not 6


### operational and; therefore, demonstrate nothing. 7


### Furthermore, even if EPA co uld base a 8


### performance standard on the application of a 9


### technology that is yet to operate, three of the 10


### four projects EPA cites to support its 11



### determination have received subsidies under the 12


### Energy Policy Act of 2005 and tax credits, which 13


### prohibits EPA fr om considering such projects and 14


### making an adequately demonstrated determination. 15


### EPA cannot rely on these three projects at all, 16


### and must withdraw its proposal for this reason 17



### alone. 18


### The remaining project EPA cites is in 19


### Canada, is heavily subsidized b y the Canadian 20


### Government and is also not operational. Not only 21


### is EPA precluded from relying on a project that 22

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### is not operational, but if this project were to 1


### become operational, EPA could not rely on it 2


### without first analyzing the unique electric grid 3



### a nd environmental regulatory constraints that 4



### coal

- fired units face in the United States; 5


### constraints which may preclude any future 6


### reliance on this Canadian project. 7


### Second, EPA's proposed standard of 8


### performance for natural gas

- fired stationary 9



### combustion turbines is also unsupported. The 10


### proposed standard of 1,000 pounds of carbon 11


### dioxide per megawatt hour, does not represent the 12


### performance of the category as a whole under the 13


### range of relevant conditions affecting carbon 14



### dioxide emissions from natural gas
- fired units. 15


### UARG will provide, as part of its written 16


### comments, a report that analyzes data on carbon 17


### dioxide emissions from recently built combined 18


### cycle gas

- fired units, operating at various duty 19


### cycles. These emissions data support a higher 20



### standa rd. 21


### Third, the proposal is arbitrary and 22

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### capricious if, as EPA claims, the standard will 1


### not accomplish anything. Section 301(a) of the 2


### Clean Air Act provides that the administrator is 3


### authorized to prescribe such regulations as are 4



### necessary to carry out her functions under the 5


### act. And Section 111(b)(1)(b) states that the 6



### administrator need not review a standard if she 7


### determines that such review is not appropriate in 8


### light of readily available information as to the 9


### efficacy of such standard. 10


### Here, the administrator has determined 11


### that this proposed rule will result in negligible 12



### CO2 emission changes, quantified benefits, and 13


### costs by 2022. In other words, EPA has found 14


### that the standard will not advance the objective 15


### of reducing greenhouse gasses or co mbating 16


### climate change. It is by EPA's own admission 17


### neither necessary nor efficacious. EPA lacks 18


### authority to promulgate a standard that 19


### accomplishes nothing. 20


### Finally, EPA is required to make a new 21


### endangerment finding and a new cause or 22

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### contribute sign ificantly finding before proposing 1


### these new regulations. 2


### In 2009 EPA found that six greenhouse 3


### gasses collectively endanger public health and 4


### welfare. And EPA further found that greenhouse 5


### gas emissions from new motor vehicles and engines 6



### contribute to t hat endangerment. 7


### Before EPA can regulate emissions of 8


### carbon dioxide specifically, EPA must make a new 9


### endangerment finding for carbon dioxide alone. 10


### EPA must also make a separate finding that 11



### emissions of carbon dioxide from the sources to 12


### be regulated here, which are only a portion of 13


### electric generating units, cause or contribute 14


### significantly to air pollution that may 15


### reasonably be anticipated to endanger public 16



### health or welfare. 17


### EPA has not made, and cannot make these 18


### findings here. Furthermore, even if it could, 19


### EPA has already conceded that the proposed 20



### standards will not reduce CO2 emissions and; 21


### therefore, cannot address the proposed 22

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### endangerment. 1


### UARG will be glad to respond to any 2


### further questions from the EPA, and I thank you 3


### for the oppo rtunity to comment today. 4


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, sir. Questions? 5


### MR. STEVENS: Just one, sir, on your use 6


### of the word commercial. Could you give me 7


### another couple sentences on your meaning? 8


### MR. KNUDSEN: Well, unfortunately I'm not 9


### prepared today to pr ovide testimony on our 10


### definition of commercial, but that will be 11



### addressed in our written comments. 12


### MR. STEVENS: Very good. Thanks. 13


### MR. WAYLAND: Question? 14


### MR. FELLNER: In your written comments, 15


### will they have for the coal plants, what you 16



### would consid er the best demonstrative technology 17



### if

-- you're saying carbon would not

-- are you 18


### going to provide an alternative of what, in your 19


### opinion, would be? 20



### MR. KNUDSEN: I don't believe I'm 21


### prepared to respond to that question either. 22

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### MR. FELLNER: Okay. All right. Thank 1



### you. 2


### MR. KNUDSEN: Thank you. 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Sean? 4


### MR. HOLLIHAN: Good morning. 5


### MR. WAYLAND: Good morning. 6


### MR. HOLLIHAN: My name is Sean Hollihan, 7


### and I work with the Healthy Air Coalition, the 8


### American Lung Associat ion in Virginia. 9


### I stand before you today in support of 10


### your proposed carbon pollution standards for 11


### newer power plants. Finalizing these standards 12


### is essential to protecting the health of people 13


### in Virginia and across the country. 14


### The American Lung Ass ociation's Healthy 15


### Air Campaign has brought together a strong 16


### coalition of public health groups and medical 17


### professionals to spread the word about the impact 18


### that air pollution has on public health. 19


### Together we've supported protections that limit 20


### many of the most dangerous pollutants that form 21


### from emissions from power plants, including 22

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### mercury and air toxics, ground

- level ozone, and 1


### particle pollution. 2



### Now we have to finalize the first ever 3


### limits on power plant carbon pollution to 4


### continue working toward healthy air and 5


### protecting public health. 6


### Climate change is the greatest public 7



### health threat of our time. The science is clear 8


### that the buildup of carbon pollution will create 9


### warmer temperatures, which could, in turn, 10


### increase the risk of unhealthy l evels of ozone 11


### pollution. More ozone means more asthma attacks 12


### and complications from lung disease, especially 13


### for our most vulnerable populations. 14


### Virginia has more than 150,000 children 15


### and 540,000 adults with asthma. The Commo nwealth 16



### is also home to m ore tha n 380,000 people with 17


### chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. They're 18


### all at greater risk of missed days of work and 19


### school, emergency room visits, hospitalizations, 20


### and premature death from health problems caused 21


### by ozone pollution. 22

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### Virginia's chil dren, senior citizens, and 1


### people living in poverty are also particularly 2


### vulnerable. We've also already had a smog 3


### problem in Virginia. Every year the American 4


### Lung Association releases our State of the Air 5


### Report, which uses EPA data to give letter gra des 6



### to our cities and counties for their levels of 7



### ozone. 8


### In the most recent report, we received 9


### failing grades for ozone levels in parts of 10


### Northern Virginia, the Richmond Metro area, and 11


### Southeastern Virginia. 12


### The good news is that our state is making 13


### real gains in reducing our ozone levels. 14


### However, climate change could undo the progress 15


### we're making. 16


### The American Lung Association in Virginia 17


### has spent the past year and a half building our 18


### coalition of health groups and medical 19


### professionals. What we found is that doctors, 20


### nurses, respiratory therapists, public health 21


### experts, and patients all understand the terrible 22

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### toll that ozone takes on public health. That's 1


### why they've joined us in supporting the proposed 2


### carbon pollution standards for new powe r plants. 3


### Last month we were joined by eight other 4


### Virginia medical practices and health 5


### organizations when we called on our members of 6


### congress to uphold EPA's authority to cut carbon 7


### pollution. 8


### These partners are spread throughout the 9



### Commonwealth. The local Health Care Council of 10


### the National Capitol Area, the Central Virginia 11


### Asthma Coalition in Richmond, Community Health 12


### Charities of Virginia and Newport News, the 13


### Health Individuals Through Prevention and 14


### Education Coalition in Lynchburg, clinics in 15


### Roanoke and Danville, a lung disease group in 16


### Fredericksburg, and more. Mayors, city council 17


### members, members of boards of supervisors all 18


### throughout Virginia have also publically signed 19



### on to these efforts. 20


### The support we've seen in Virginia is 21



### cons istent with the results of national polls as 22

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### well. Americans are in favor of strong limits of 1


### pollution from power plants. According to a 2


### bipartisan survey conducted for the American Lung 3


### Association, voters strongly support EPA's 4


### efforts to update clean air protections. 5


### Seventy

- two percent of voters surveyed 6


### specifically want EPA to set limits on power 7


### plant carbon pollution. 8


### People also don't believe that we have to 9


### choose between public health and a strong 10


### economy. According to the same poll, 73 perc ent 11


### of voters say that we can achieve both. 12



### In a two

- to

- one majority, 60 to 31 13


### percent, believe that strengthening safeguards 14


### against pollution will create, not destroy, jobs 15


### by encouraging innovation. 16


### Our healthy air coalition is committed to 17


### educating Vi rginians about the impacts of air 18


### pollution on their health and convincing our 19


### decision makers to strengthen protections against 20


### these pollutants. We call on EPA to finalize its 21


### proposed carbon pollution standards for new power 22

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### plants into law. It's the next step in our 1


### progress towards healthy air for all. Thank you 2


### very much. 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, sir. Any 4


### questions? 5


### MR. STEVENS: Not for me. Thank you very 6



### much. 7


### MR. HOLLIHAN: Thank you very much. 8


### Thank you. 9


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. Our next two 10



### s peakers will be Sam Lockhart and Jane Difenbach. 11


### They may be in the other room. 12


### For those of you that just joined us, we 13


### have had some people notify us of travel delays 14


### this morning. So there may be some shuffling of 15



### names. 16


### Okay. We'll hear from Barba ra Gottlieb. 17


### MS. GOTTLIEB: Good morning. My name is 18



### Barbara Gottlieb. I'm Director of Environment 19


### and Health at Physicians for Social 20


### Responsibility, a national organization of 50,000 21


### physicians, nurses, public health professionals, 22

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### and citizen support ers. 1



### On their behalf I thank the Environmental 2


### Protection Agency for its work to place limits on 3


### carbon emissions from new power plants, and for 4


### this opportunity to comment on those proposed 5



### rules. 6



### Science has established that climate 7


### change is real, it is happening now, and burning 8


### fossil fuels is a major cause. Thus, in order to 9


### slow and ultimately reverse climate change, we 10



### need to reduce carbon emissions from fossil fuel 11


### plants. 12


### Climate change is often characterized as 13


### an environmental problem. Le t me present it to 14


### you as a health problem, in fact, one of the 15


### greatest threats to human health and survival in 16


### the world today. 17


### Because time is brief, I'll touch on just 18


### four ways that climate change kills. I'll start 19



### with heat effects and extreme weath er events. As 20


### world temperatures increase intense heat waves 21



### become more common and extreme heat kills more 22

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### U.S. residents than lightening, tornados, floods, 1


### and earthquakes combined. 2


### Exposure to prolonged extreme heat, as in 3


### a heat wave, can cause heat cramps, then heat 4


### exhaustion, then heat

- stroke, which can be fatal. 5


### The Chicago heat wave of 1995 killed over 6


### 700 people. The European heat wave of 2003 7


### killed an unimaginable 35,000 to 75,000 people. 8


### Estimates vary. 9



### Heat also increases the formation of 10


### ground

- level ozone which triggers asthma and 11


### exacerbates heart and lung disease. Heat also 12


### contributes to wildfires which, of course, can 13


### kill outright; but, which also release 14


### particulate matter, a dangerous respiratory 15


### irritant, as well as carcinoge nic hydrocarbons. 16



### Extreme weather events are also 17


### increasing in frequency with climate change. 18


### We've witnessed the devastating effects of 19


### Hurricanes Katrina and Sandy, drownings and 20


### deaths, hospitals evacuated, patients carried 21


### down dark staircases, displ acement, homelessness, 22

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### Post

- Traumatic Stress Disorder. 1


### Even small storms cause flooding and 2



### contaminate water with toxic chemicals and 3


### sewage, which can cause outbreaks of 4


### cryptosporidium, e

- coli, giardia, shigella, 5


### typhoid, hepatitis A. While the U.S. generally 6


### enjoys reliable sources of potable water, 7



### contamination of recreational waters from extreme 8


### weather events remains a significant means of 9



### disease transmission. 10


### Climate change also increases the threat 11



### of insect

- borne diseases. Insect hosts and the 12


### infectious agents they carry are cold

- blooded, so 13


### they respond to temperature in many ways. 14


### Temperature changes may shift their geographic 15


### ranges; seems to be happening with the deer tick, 16


### the carrier of Lyme disease. 17


### Mosquitoes, which carry malaria, dengue 18


### fever, West Nile virus, and other diseases are 19


### highly sensitive to temperature changes. Higher 20


### temperatures boost their reproductive rates, make 21


### them bite more frequently. If you live in 22

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### Washington you believe that. Lengthen their 1


### breeding season , and shorten the time it takes 2


### for the pathogens they bear to reach an 3


### infectious state. Globaling malaria is a major 4


### killer, especially of children. 5


### Finally, climate change is threatening 6


### the Earth's ability to produce food. Estimates 7


### vary, but exper ts predict that for every 1.8 8


### degree Fahrenheit increase in global average 9


### surface temperature, we can expect about a 10 10


### percent decline in yields of the world's major 11


### grains, corn, soy beans, rice, and wheat. 12


### In some plants like wheat, soy beans, and 13



### rice , higher CO2 levels actually increase plant 14


### growth. But most experts agree that the CO2

- 15


### related benefits will be outweighed by the 16


### negative effects of higher temperatures, which 17


### decrease rates of photosynthesis, reduce soil 18


### moisture, increase water demand , and lead to 19


### increased survival of plant pests, diseases, and 20


### weeds, all which combine to reduce crop yields. 21


### Most models looking at food production 22

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### only consider the effect of rising temperature 1



### and CO2 levels. Yet climate change will also 2


### disrupt food production in other ways, such as 3


### more droughts, more frequent severe, and longer 4


### lasting heat waves, damaging rains and storms, 5


### reduced water available for irrigation, soil 6


### salination from rising sea levels and storm 7


### surges, thriving plant pests and disea ses, and 8


### higher ozone levels that damage plants and reduce 9


### crop yields. 10



### That is not the world we want for 11


### ourselves, for our children, for our patients, 12


### for our communities. It's vital that the EPA, to 13


### protect our health and wellbeing from the ravages 14



### o f climate change, set the strongest possible 15


### limits on carbon pollution from power plants. 16


### In addition, we urge you to encourage the 17


### states, as they establish the best systems for 18


### emissions reductions, to increase energy 19


### efficiency and expand their use of solar, wind, 20


### and other renewable energy sources. That is the 21


### way to a bright future; one that reduces climate 22

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### disruption, cuts conventional pollutants, and 1


### provides great gains to the health of all of us. 2


### Thank you. 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. A ny 4


### questions? 5


### MR. STEVENS: Just one quickly. How many 6


### members do you have in positions for public 7



### health? 8


### MS. GOTTLIEB: We have 50,000 members and 9



### supporters. 10


### MR. STEVENS: Thank you. 11


### MS. GOTTLIEB: We have also, 24 chapters 12


### across the country and 14 st udent chapters. 13


### MR. WAYLAND: Question? No? Thank you 14


### very much. You can leave your

-- here on the 15


### corner. We'll make sure the court reporter gets 16


### it. Yes. Thank you very much. 17


### Our next two speakers will be Jane 18



### Difenbach and John Ellwood. 19



### MS. DIFENB ACH: Hi, good morning. My 20



### name is Jane Difenbach and I’m here on behalf of 21


### myself. 22

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### Thank you for your time today to take my 1


### statement in support of stringent standards for 2


### carbon emissions for existing power plants in the 3



### U.S. 4



### I'm thankful for all the people here 5


### today to document all the ways

-- 6


### MR. WAYLAND: Could you use the other 7


### microphone? 8


### MS. DIFENBACH: The other microphone. 9


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 10


### MS. DIFENBACH: All the ways that climate 11


### change and climate chaos will create harm. But 12



### I'm her e to speak from the heart today. 13



### I'm a middle

- aged mother of two grown 14



### children. I work as a clinical research 15


### scientist on a variety of diseases, including 16


### tuberculosis, the second ranked killer among 17


### diseases globally, and a latent but persistent 18



### threat in the U.S. still. 19


### I take my work very seriously, but more 20


### and more days I get up wondering why I would work 21


### anything other than raising awareness of the harm 22

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### of climate change, and the threat that's coming 1



### with it. Because without a course correction on 2


### climate change, nothing will matter. Certainly 3


### not tuberculosis cures in developing countries, 4


### because TB will be the least of the problems that 5


### poor people have to deal with once climate change 6


### disrupts their lives and ours. 7



### You don't need to be a clima te scientist 8


### to see that we've got a problem. The drought in 9


### California is only the latest of predictable 10


### environmental tragedies unfolding worldwide. I'm 11


### scared for you and your children and 12


### grandchildren, for me and my children and 13


### grandchildren, but m ostly for people who don't 14


### live in Washington, D.C. or North America, who 15


### will bear the brunt of climate change. 16


### I hear two main arguments against the EPA 17


### taking action to curb carbon dioxide emissions. 18


### One of them is that jobs will be lost. I was at 19



### a h earing here on November 7th when Mitch 20


### McConnell delivered this argument for the hearing 21


### about carbon dioxide emissions for new power 22

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### plants. And I would never dismiss the problem of 1


### rural people finding work in Kentucky. But on 2


### that day that Senator McC onnell was arguing that 3


### 14,000 jobs would be lost, Typhoon Haiyan was 4


### hitting land and reeking the destruction that we 5


### all know happened afterward in the Philippines, 6


### where thousands of people lost their lives and 7


### hundreds of thousands had their lives comp letely 8



### undone. 9


### The other argument I hear is that the 10


### problem is not with the U.S., it's with Asia. 11


### After all, China is the new leader in overall CO2 12


### emissions, and growing rapidly. 13


### Two documents on the fridge serve as 14


### reminders and the problems with thi s argument. 15


### One is a map of where the world's people live be 16


### economic status. You can't see it probably, but 17


### maybe you'll be able to just get a general sense 18



### of it. 19


### This map has wealth coded in color. Blue 20


### is for high, purple to red for middle, orange to 21


### pale yellow for low economic status. Big 22

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### populations are represented by solid colors. 1



### Small ones look like dots. North America is blue 2


### dots. Western Europe, Japan, parts of the 3



### Arabian Peninsula are also blue. 4


### But look how sparse North America is

. 5


### It's sparsely dispersed well. Compare this to 6



### Central Africa and Southeast Asia where solid 7


### swaths of orange to tan show huge populations 8


### living in poverty. 9


### It's a daily reminder of the unequal 10


### distribution of wealth. And when I look at this, 11


### my fee lings turn more to guilt than pride. The 12


### other document I brought with me, and I keep it 13


### at the ready to start conversations in my own 14


### household and get all the young people passing 15


### through to think about this issue, is the World 16


### Bank Report of per

- capita CO2 emissions. 17


### At 17 metric tons per

- capita per year, 18


### the U.S. is the second biggest carbon polluter in 19


### the world, just behind Canada, and just ahead of 20



### Saudi Arabia. 21



### Per

- capita emissions in the U.S. are two 22

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### times, or higher than Western European countr ies, 1


### four times higher than Mexico, seven times higher 2


### than Brazil, 10 times higher than India, and 40 3


### times higher than Bangladesh. The U.S. emits 4


### twice as much carbon per

- capital as China. 5


### From a moral standpoint, it doesn't 6



### matter that China emits more carbon dioxide than 7


### the U.S. because we're using more than our share. 8


### We can and should be even with Europe, but over 9


### and over we sit on the sidelines refusing to 10


### participate in global agreements to limit carbon 11



### emissions. And now we find ourselves at t hree 12


### times the emissions of the U.K. and France, and 13


### two times Germany. We've not been a good 14


### neighbor, we have not played fair, we have not 15



### been moral. 16


### Limits on carbon emissions for existing 17


### power plants is a step in the right direction for 18



### Americans to regain moral ground. I urge you to 19


### make them tough and enforceable. Let's get this 20


### done and let's move on to other ways of thinking 21


### about conservation and renewable energy. Time is 22

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### precious and we need your leadership. The 1


### standard for what's acceptab le in our city and 2


### our country needs to change now. 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Questions? 4


### MR. STEVENS: None for me. Thank you 5


### very much. 6


### MR. WAYLAND: Questions? 7


### MR. FELLNER: No, thank you. 8


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 9



### Mr. Elwood. 10



### MR. ELWOOD: Thank you, gentlemen. My 11


### name is John Elwood. I'm speaking to you today 12


### as an elder and a teacher in the Presbyterian 13


### Church. I'm speaking as the editor of the 14


### website BelovedPlanet.com, and as participant in 15


### the Environmental Stewardship Initiative of the 16



### Christian Reformed Church. 17


### My farm in Andover, New Jersey provides 18


### produce for more than 700 families. And I thank 19


### you for giving me the opportunity to testify in 20


### support of the EPA's carbon emission standards 21


### for new power plants. 22

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### An important ques tion for Christians, and 1


### I think for all people of goodwill, is this: How 2


### much carbon pollution should power plants be 3


### permitted to dump into the atmosphere for others 4


### to pay for both in health and in climate 5


### disruption costs? 6


### Now from an evangelical and reformed 7


### Christian perspective, it's clearly wrong for a 8


### buyer and a seller to enjoy all the benefits of a 9


### transaction, but then leave a substantial part of 10



### the cost for innocent third

- parties to bear the 11



### external costs. 12


### The scriptures of the Old and Ne w 13


### Testaments don't speak of external costs by that 14


### name. But God pronounces judgment on other 15


### things that are analogous to it in our day. 16


### Dishonest scales, skimping on the measure, mixing 17


### the sweepings with the wheat. 18


### "The Lord has sworn by himself," s ays the 19


### Profit Amos, "I will never forget what they have 20


### done. I will spare them no longer." 21


### Until recently, now, we didn't know the 22

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### scale of the external costs of coal burning. But 1


### as you know, in 2010, the U.S. National Academy 2


### of Science quantified th ese costs in their study 3


### titled "The hidden cost of energy". I thought 4


### that their findings were shocking. Coal burned 5


### in a single year by U.S. power plants costs 6


### everyone else on the planet another $200 to $300 7


### billion in unpriced external costs. That's a tax 8


### of about $40 levied on every single human on 9


### Earth. Only for U.S. coal, only for one single 10


### year, borne by men and women, adults and 11


### children, and by both the rich and those earning 12


### less than $1 a day. 13


### During these hearings you've heard 14


### testimony f rom people engaged in the coal 15


### industry, and you've been asked to consider the 16


### toll that they will bear if new power plants are 17


### made to limit their carbon pollution. 18



### Christians of all traditions take their 19


### plight seriously and our society must find ways 20


### to help effected communities recover. But I 21


### would like to ask you to consider the plight of 22

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### totally innocent communities; communities both in 1


### our country and elsewhere in the world, which 2


### receive no benefit whatsoever from the burning of 3



### coal. 4



### Last year t he Christian Reformed Church 5


### sent me and a delegation of other leaders to 6


### Kenya to hear firsthand from people who are 7


### bearing the brunt of external costs from carbon 8


### pollution. We met with hundreds of small farmers 9


### and community leaders. And everywhere t he story 10


### was exactly the same. Two reliable growing 11



### seasons had shrunk to one. And even that one 12


### remaining growing season had become unreliable, 13


### both characterized by drought and by flooding. 14


### Crop yields, of course, have plummeted, 15


### and water in Kenya is more scarce than ever. We 16


### also visited with Reverend Peter Colanga, the 17


### General Secretary of the Kenyan Council of 18


### Churches. Please listen to what this good man 19


### had to say. 20


### "We are very concerned," he said, 21


### "especially about America. They are the most 22

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### o bstinate country when it comes to climate 1


### change. You have a responsibility to reduce your 2


### greenhouse gasses which are harming the rest of 3


### the world. Long after your life is over," he 4


### told us, "your actions will have consequences on 5


### us. Many of them wil l be harmful consequences." 6


### That's the end of his quote. 7


### On behalf of all people who bear the cost 8


### of carbon pollution from American power plants, 9


### our citizens, our children, the people of Kenya, 10


### plus many more, I urge the EPA to finally 11


### implement standard s aimed at reducing carbon 12


### emissions from new power plants. Thank you and 13


### may God bless your efforts. 14


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 15


### Questions? 16


### MR. STEVENS: Not for me, thank you. 17


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, both. Our next 18


### two speakers this morning w ill be Terence Ellen 19



### and Eric Holdsworth. 20


### MR. HOLDSWORTH: Thank you. Good 21


### morning, and thank you for the opportunity to 22

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### make this statement. My name is Eric Holdsworth 1


### and I'm speaking on behalf of the Edison Electric 2


### Institute, or EEI. 3



### EEI is the tra de association that 4


### represents all U.S. investor and utilities. Our 5


### members provide electricity for 220 million 6


### Americans, operating in all 50 states and the 7


### District of Columbia, and directly employ more 8


### than half a million workers. Reliable, 9



### affordable , and sustainable electricity powers 10


### the economy and enhances the lives of all 11



### Americans. 12


### EEI will be submitting detailed comments 13


### on the reproposed greenhouse gas performance 14


### standards for new electric generating units. My 15


### remarks today will focus on thr ee key concerns. 16


### One, the ability of natural gas units to 17


### comply with the standards under normal operating 18


### conditions, especially as more renewable 19


### resources are integrated into the grid. 20


### Two, the lack of an explicit exemption 21


### for simple cycle units. 22

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### Three , EPA's determination that carbon 1


### capture and storage, or CCS, has been adequately 2



### demonstrated for coal

- based EG use at this time. 3


### While EPA has proposed a separate 4


### standard for coal, it has not created a workable 5


### pathway for coal

- fired units going forwar d, given 6



### the costs and other barriers to CCS. 7


### Let me briefly elaborate. Regarding the 8


### proposed standards for natural gas units, we 9


### appreciate EPA's creation of a separate standard 10


### of 1,100 pounds per megawatt hour for smaller 11


### units in response to numero us concerns raised 12


### with the standards as initially proposed. And we 13


### appreciate the modification of the methods for 14


### compliance determination. These revisions do 15


### appear to address some of the concerns cited in 16


### our June, 2012, comments. 17


### Nonetheless, concern s remain with the 18


### ability of new plants to meet the proposed 19


### standards. Increased penetration of renewables 20


### in the future will cause natural gas units to 21


### cycle even more frequently to support the 22

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### increased integration of these resources into the 1


### grid. Na tural gas combined cycle units should 2


### not be subject to unachievable standards that do 3


### not consider the range of normal operating 4



### conditions. 5



### These concerns are reflected in some of 6


### the recently issued greenhouse gas backed limits 7


### for several recent projec ts. Several of these 8


### projects are cited at levels that are above the 9


### proposed standard, further demonstrating that at 10


### least some new plants may have trouble meeting 11


### the proposed levels. 12


### We urge EPA to consider raising the 13


### standard for small and large unit s to 1,100 14


### pounds per megawatt hour in order to ensure that 15


### new units can meet the standards, while helping 16


### to integrate the increased renewable resources 17


### into the grid, which is the overall objective 18


### that EPA and the Administration are seeking to 19



### achieve. 20


### At a minimum, EPA must not lower the 21


### standards as some stakeholders are advocating. 22

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### Regarding simple cycle combustion 1


### turbines, we remain supportive of an explicit 2


### exemption as described in the 2012 proposal. 3


### These units ramp up quickly to support renew able 4


### integration into the grid and provide other 5


### services to support

-- to ensure power 6


### reliability by quickly responding to load demands 7


### and other system conditions. Thus, it is vital 8



### that these units be available. 9


### We appreciate that EPA appears to have 10


### tried to address the importance of simple cycle 11


### units in maintaining reliability with proposed 12


### changes to the applicability criteria. 13


### Further, our initial analysis suggests 14


### that the draft standards appear to exempt most 15


### simple cycle units. However, EPA's proposal 16


### creates much uncertainty as to how these units 17


### will be regulated. An explicit exemption would 18


### provide needed clarity. 19


### Finally, we continue to object to EPA's 20


### determination that CCS has been adequately 21



### demonstrated for coal

- based electric generati ng 22

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### units at this time. CCS is widely considered not 1


### to be commercially available because it has not 2


### yet been adequately demonstrated at utility 3


### scale, has not been integrated with electricity 4


### production and is not economically feasible at 5



### this time. 6



### Demon stration is the key factor in 7


### bringing down the costs of CCS, and this rule 8


### will hinder further CCS development by creating 9


### regulatory disincentives to new projects. Given 10


### the costs and other barriers to CCS, EPA's 11


### proposed separate standard for coal does not 12


### create a workable pathway for coal

- fired units 13


### going forward. Even EPA has acknowledged that 14


### CCS may be economically infeasible for most 15



### units. 16


### As noted in our 2012 comments, the value 17


### of a separate standard is not just to ensure a 18


### diverse portfolio of generating fuels, but to 19


### ensure that there are economic alternatives, 20


### should the price of natural gas increase. Coal 21


### with CCS is not currently able to provide a hedge 22

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### against rising natural gas prices. Therefore, we 1



### reiterate our call for EPA to set t he separate 2



### coal

- based standard at a level that does not 3


### require CCS. 4


### Further, CCS should not be deemed the 5


### best system of emission reduction for new natural 6


### gas units, which is a conclusion reached 7


### repeatedly in GHG backed analyses for new natural 8



### gas u nits. 9


### I thank you for your attention. 10


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 11


### I had one question. You mentioned your 12


### upcoming written comments to the docket, and you 13



### talked about some recent backed determinations. 14



### Will that information be included in EEI' s 15



### written comments? 16



### MR. HOLDSWORTH: Yes. 17


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. 18



### MR. HOLDSWORTH: There will be much more 19


### detailed information on all these points, 20


### including all those units. 21


### MR. WAYLAND: Great. Thank you very 22

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### much. Bill, any question? 1



### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you very much. 2



### MR. WAYLAND: Chris? 3



### MR. FELLNER: No. 4


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 5



### Terence? 6



### MR. ELLEN: I’m the Reverend Dr. Terence 7


### Ellen, speaking on behalf of Interfaith Moral 8



### Action on Climate. And also on behalf of 9



### Unitarian and Un iversalists for Social Justice in 10


### the National Capital Region. 11


### We endorse the strictest standards you 12



### can set for CO2 emissions from new power plants. 13


### But the arguments I offer are moral, not 14


### technical. There are three, and I appreciate 15


### your technical stuff. I'm not going to be 16


### dealing with that. 17


### First, the atmosphere, the air, was given 18


### to all of us by a power greater than all of us. 19


### It was not given to certain corporations to use 20


### for profit while passing on the costs to the rest 21


### of us. We require r estaurants to dispose of 22

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### their garbage. Power plants should not throw 1



### their trash out for free. 2


### Personally I've raised my family on the 3


### east coast and lived with the knowledge that 4


### completely irresponsible plants in the Midwest 5


### were forcing the people I m ost dearly love to 6



### breathe in their voluminous emissions. Air 7


### pollution has never respected state boundaries 8


### and so standards must be federal and they come 9


### down to you. 10



### I also know that with almost without 11


### exception, at least in my experience, past 12



### indust ry protests about tighter public health or 13


### public safety standards ruining them economically 14


### have been overstated and have not come to pass. 15


### Rather, as best I know, always higher industry 16


### standards have led to prosperity and the public 17


### good. 18


### Please, ple ase do not be misled by cries 19


### of financial ruin from industry. It is an old 20


### ploy and it should be bankrupt as an argument 21


### based upon all past experience. 22

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### Secondly, it is absolutely essential that 1


### new power plants in our country meet the highest 2



### standards for CO2 emissions. Given the huge 3


### percentage of our national CO2 emissions coming 4


### from our power plants, given the fact that 5



### whatever standards we set now will be the 6


### standards well into the future when things will 7


### only become more dire, and given that we all 8


### know, or should know unless we're burying our 9


### heads in the sand, what rising CO2 levels are 10


### doing to us and to the other species all over the 11


### world. This is an historic opportunity and 12


### moment to appropriately address our irresponsible 13



### and selfish CO2 emissions. 14


### The whole world is watching to see if we, 15


### said to be the last and greatest hope of 16


### humankind, will live up to our reputation and the 17


### great hope that is placed in us as a free 18



### country. 19


### Our past standards with our naivete, 20


### ignorance, and placem ent of profit before public 21


### good is one thing. The future, with all of our 22

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### children and theirs hanging in the balance, is 1


### another. We know better now. Or we surely 2



### should. 3


### Thirdly, and lastly, meeting the urgent 4


### crisis of climate change by among other t hings, 5


### limiting our CO2 emissions, is without doubt the 6


### greatest moral issue and task of our time. 7


### Everything else pales before it because of the 8


### gigantic long

- term consequences to the most 9


### vulnerable humans among us, to the whole 10



### miraculous and infinitel y nuanced biological 11


### diversity of species, and to our own kids and 12



### theirs. 13


### You, as those called to protect the wider 14


### public good, you as those charged with standing 15


### up for the wider long

- term view when others will 16


### look not far beyond their own noses, you hold now 17


### a precious charge and perspective. Please, on 18


### behalf of all those who cannot be here today, on 19


### behalf of all the voices who depend upon you to 20


### stand up for their good, keep the wider 21


### perspective in mind. Do not allow yourselves to 22

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### be swamped by the immediate concerns of those out 1


### to make money, or who are interested only in the 2


### immediate present. Time on this issue of climate 3


### change is very short. And you, as well as all of 4


### us, must address it with the overriding 5



### seriousness that it deserves. 6



### T hank you for your time and I hope by all 7



### that

-- in God's name and all that is holy, that 8


### you uphold the integrity of this country and 9


### reduce our climate change emissions. Thank you. 10


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Any 11


### questions? 12


### MR. STEVENS: No, tha nk you, sir. 13


### MR. FELLNER: No, thank you. 14


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 15


### Our next two speakers will be Reverend M. 16



### Dele and Steven Parks. 17



### Reverend Dele? 18



### MS. DELE: Yes. 19


### MR. WAYLAND: Good morning. 20


### MS. DELE: Reverend Marjana Dele. I'm a 21


### steering com mittee member of Virginia's 22

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### Interfaith Power and Light Affiliate. I'm also a 1


### pastor within the United Church of Christ. 2


### Last year our denomination decided to 3



### divest itself of fossil fuel industries at a 4


### national level, demonstrating that we want to do 5



### e verything that we can to remove the economic 6



### incentive to smother the Earth. 7


### Our 4,000 members agree with President 8


### Obama that we should serve and preserve the land 9


### as is stated in Genesis, the second chapter, the 10



### 16th verse. 11


### We also agree with thousands of small 12


### business owners who support carbon pollution 13


### standards because they recognize that our economy 14


### can never be so desperate that we sell off our 15


### children's right to fresh air. 16


### We also agree with the Universal 17


### Declaration of the Rights of Mother Ea rth, which 18


### says that the inherent right of Mother Earth 19


### includes the right to clean air, and the right to 20


### be free from pollution and toxic waste. For as 21


### we treat Mother Earth, we treat ourselves. 22

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### Over 75 percent of African Americans are 1



### treated to a house within 30 miles of the coal

2


### fired power plant that is spewing unbridled 3


### carbon pollution into the air. 4


### We see racial disparities in carbon 5


### polluting when we realize that an African

6


### American family making $50,000 a year is more 7


### likely to live near a toxi c facility than a 8



### European

- American family making $15,000 a year. 9


### This disparity continues in increased rates of 10


### respiratory illnesses in African

- Americans. 11


### Even though we have lower rates of 12


### smoking, we are more likely to die of lung 13



### disease. Nationwi de African

- American children 14


### are five times more likely to die of asthma, and 15


### three times more likely to be admitted to the 16


### hospital for an asthma attack. This is directly 17


### related to unbridled carbon pollution in the air. 18



### When combined with other toxins t hat come 19


### from power plants, such as mercury, arsenic, and 20


### lead, carbon pollution creates a death dome which 21



### hovers over our communities and snuffs out lives 22

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### prematurely. Again, it is unbridled carbon 1


### pollution that is the number one driver of 2



### climate chan ge. 3


### And we have seen that those most harshly 4


### impacted by climate change are the most 5


### vulnerable members of our society that we are 6



### called to care for. And so we call on the 7


### Environmental Protection agency to please protect 8


### our environment; to pass the car bon pollution 9


### standards so that the death domes hovering over 10


### our communities will stop sending children to the 11


### hospital just because they played outdoors. Some 12



### of these children never come home. 13


### So we're asking that you pass these 14



### standards to restore ou r beautiful spacious skies 15


### so that we all can breathe freely, the breath of 16



### life. 17


### I want to end with a quote from an 18



### African

- American spiritual that says, "Keep your 19


### lamp trimmed and burning or this world will soon 20



### be done." 21



### It's a commonsense instructi on to tell 22

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### you that whether you are burning bees wax or 1


### coal, any time you are burning fuel, you must 2



### remove the soot. You must remove the carbon so 3


### that generating power does not kill you. Thank 4


### you very much. 5


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 6


### Questio ns? 7



### MR. STEVENS: No. 8


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Mr. Parks. 9


### MR. PARKS: Good day. Thank you for 10


### receiving my testimony. And thank you to the 11



### EPA. 12


### I'm an old codger grew up before the 13


### Clean Air Act and so forth, and I remember the 14


### real horrors of the pol lution in the water and 15


### the air. In fact my explorer scout initiation 16


### consisted of having to wade in one of the rivers 17


### in Florida, after which my hair stuck to my skin 18


### because of the pollution. 19



### I'm here. I am a member of the Sierra 20


### Club, the Native Plant Society, and I’m a very 21


### avid naturalist. But I'm here to speak against 22

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### the ruling. And I guess you could say I'm 1


### representing balanced discourse. 2



### We've heard a lot about carbon dioxide 3


### and the climate change and ozone connections. I 4


### want to remind yo u that those are tenuous. I'm a 5


### physicist and I see carbon dioxide greenhouse 6


### forcing as possibly responsible for about a half 7


### degree of the total temperature change that we've 8


### seen. The rest is subject to various kinds of 9


### modeling and amplification fact ors that are in 10


### question. 11


### But I will agree that carbon dioxide has 12


### contributed to global warming. That's all I'm 13


### going to say on that matter. 14


### I'd like to speak to the more

-- the 15


### feasibility of things. 16


### The comments already made indicate that 17


### the low price of natural gas, and the proposed 18


### regulations together have pretty much killed any 19


### prospects for building new coal

- fired power 20


### plants. And the EPA appears to acknowledge that 21


### in Section 2.1.2 of their technical report, where 22

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### they say basically that the re gulations will have 1


### no economic impact because natural gas and the 2


### proposals have killed the construction of coal; 3


### therefore, no new plants will be built. 4


### Therefore, the new proposed regulations will have 5


### no economic effect at all and basically cost 6



### socie ty nothing. 7


### Well, that may be true, but prices can 8


### change. And I want to talk about that. The zero 9


### argument is the wonderful labor

- saving device. 10


### By saying that zero plants will be built, and 11


### therefore there's zero cost, has excused EPA from 12


### doing their math and from justifying on a cost

13


### effectiveness basis what their rules may do. 14


### Zero times any cost equals zero. Very, very 15



### effective. 16


### I couldn't find anything on the website 17


### about what was the basis for your calculations. 18



### So I went to the electronic

-- sorry, the energy 19



### -- what is it? The International Energy Agency. 20


### And according to them, currently 21


### installed fleet of power plants produces carbon 22

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### dioxide at the rate of roughly 2,200 pounds per 1


### megawatt hour. 2


### The best newly built supercritical pla nts 3


### run at about 1,600 pounds of CO2 per kilowatt 4


### hour. And the 1,100 number is just incredibly 5


### far from that and not reachable by anything 6


### currently in existence. 7



### What we need

-- we need coal. The recent 8


### winter here has shown that gas cannot be relied 9


### upon to provide stuff. You cut a pipeline or you 10


### have an extremely high demand and suddenly you're 11


### out of the distance. We need coal as a part of 12


### our energy mix for energy security. Therefore, I 13


### recommend that coal plants be allowed to be built 14



### in order to keep our diverse energy security. 15


### If you shut down a gas pipeline, the 16


### lights go out. But a coal plant can have a back 17


### yard piled with thousands of tons of fuel and 18


### keep going for a month, even in the case of 19


### accident, sabotage, or some other interrup tion. 20


### Thank you very much. 21


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Any 22

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### questions, Bill or Christian? 1


### MR. STEVENS: Just when you were speaking 2


### for yourself, correct? Is that

-- 3


### MR. PARKS: I am speaking

-- no, I am 4


### speaking on behalf of balanced discourse a nd 5


### myself, yes. 6


### MR. STEVENS: Okay. Thank you. 7


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you both very much. 8


### Okay. We're going to continue. Our next 9


### two speakers will be Mr. David Donniger and Lih 10



### Young. 11


### And for those of you just joining us, we 12



### need to use both of the microphones. The larger 13


### one in front of David is for the room. The long 14


### one is for the court reporter. So make sure 15


### you're talking into both of them. It will make 16


### sure the transcripts are accurate. 17


### And with that, David. 18


### MR. DONNIGER: Thank you very much. 19


### Thanks for the opportunity to speak today on 20



### behalf of NRDC and its 1.4 million members and 21


### online activists in support of your proposal. 22

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### My name is David Donniger. I'm the 1


### Policy Director of the Climate and Clean Air 2



### Program at NRDC. 3



### Several of m y NRDC colleagues will 4


### testify later in the day and we'll address 5


### different aspects of the proposal and we'll have 6


### written comments, of course, as well. 7


### This is the first big step to implement 8



### the President's Climate Action Plan. The 9



### President has called for action on climate 10


### change, and he set out a specific timetable for 11



### EPA to act under the Clean Air Act on new and 12


### existing power plants. This is the most 13


### important place to act because they are the 14


### nation's biggest drivers of climate change with 15



### more th an 2 billion tons of CO2 emissions each 16


### year. We commend EPA for the steps it's taking 17


### on both new and existing power plants to carry 18



### out the President's timetable for action. 19


### Your authority and responsibility under 20


### the Clean Air Act are absolutely clear. Supreme 21


### Court upheld your authority twice, Massachusetts 22

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### v. EPA , American Electric Power v. Connecticut , 1


### and really a third time in declining to hear 2


### appeals from the power plant

-- sorry, the 3


### vehicle standards and the endangerment 4



### determination in the c urrent litigation. 5


### So I would like to focus on two major 6


### points. 7


### First, EPA is fully justified in setting 8


### standards for new power plants under Section 9


### 111(b). As the proposal notes, EPA has made the 10


### scientific endangerment determination, the D.C. 11



### Circui t Court of Appeals upheld the endangerment 12


### determination, and as I've mentioned, the Supreme 13


### Court refused all challenges to it. 14


### Power plants, being responsible for 40 15


### percent of the Nation's CO2 pollution are the 16


### most significant contributor to greenhouse gas 17


### concentrations. And the endangerment 18


### determination coupled with information on the 19


### scale of power plant carbon pollution fully 20


### supports the proposed standard. 21


### Second, let me address the question of 22

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### categories and subcategories. 1


### 111(b) authorizes EP A to define the 2


### industrial category and EPA asks for comment on 3


### several options. 4


### While NRDC supports the current proposal 5


### to set standards for three specific 6


### subcategories, we believe EPA should define the 7


### overall category broadly to reflect the full 8



### sco pe and character of the Nation's electricity 9


### generating system. This means that in addition 10


### to including the coal and gas

- fired units covered 11


### by the current proposal, the category should also 12


### encompass all of the greenhouse gas emitting 13



### facilities that co ntribute electricity to the 14


### grid, or that generate electricity for use in 15


### facilities that otherwise would be taking 16


### electricity from the grid. 17


### Within this electric system category 18


### there is room for EPA to establish appropriate 19


### subcategories. And that's wh y we supported the 20


### original April, 2012, proposal with a single 21


### standard for coal and gas

- fired units. NRDC also 22

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### supports the current proposal with the separate 1


### best system of emission reduction, BSER 2


### determinations, or subcategories consisting of 3



### the fos sil fuel utility boilers and IGCC units, 4


### and the natural gas combined cycle units. 5


### My colleagues, David Hawkins and Ben 6


### Longstrenth, will speak in more detail about the 7


### appropriate standards for these subcategories. 8


### We think it would make the most logic al sense to 9


### define subpart TTTT to reflect the broad system

10


### wide category that I described above, and then to 11


### complete the setting of the proposed standards 12


### for these subcategories, and then to establish a 13


### schedule for developing standards for other 14



### approp riate subcategories within the subpart. 15


### And in particular NRDC believes EPA 16


### should reconsider the proposed exemption of new 17


### units that are intended to provide less than one

18


### third of their potential electricity output to 19


### the grid. This exemption is describ ed as mainly, 20


### but not exclusively covering new simple cycle 21


### natural gas units designed for peaking purposes. 22

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### But the one

- third exemption will also 1



### cover units that run more often than traditional 2


### peakers. Substantial numbers of simple cycle 3



### units

-- of s ingle cycle units, excuse me, are 4


### being constructed, and they need to be promptly 5


### covered by appropriate carbon pollution 6


### standards. While EPA should not delay completing 7


### the rule making, we're depending proposed 8


### standards for the subcategories you've got . The 9


### Agency needs to narrow the proposed exemption and 10


### establish appropriate standards for the peakers 11


### without delay. 12


### So in conclusion, we commend you for 13


### issuing this proposal. We'll comment further 14


### today and in writing. And we urge you to keep 15


### moving forward to implement the President's 16


### charge to curb the dangerous carbon pollution 17


### from both new and existing power plants. Thank 18



### you. 19


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Bill, 20


### questions? 21


### MR. STEVENS: No, sir. Thank you. 22

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### MR. FELLNER: Just one question. When 1


### you said the broad applicability for all electric 2


### generating units, were you considering like a 3



### cut

- off, like right now the rule has a cut

- off, 4


### you have to be larger than 25 megawatts? 5


### MR. DONNIGER: Well, we'll comment on 6



### that cut

- off perhaps. But I un derstand your 7


### point about the possibility of having

-- 8


### MR. FELLNER: Okay. 9



### MR. DONNIGER:

-- some small source

-- 10



### some distinction for smaller sources. 11


### We do think it's important, both for the 12


### (b) and the (d) standard, to have a concept of 13


### the category that covers everything that 14


### contributes electricity. We don't want to have 15


### any kind of perverse lines which encourage people 16


### to build a unit which is just shy of the size 17



### cut

- off; build more of them than they would build 18


### a few bigger ones, things of that kind. We don't 19


### want to see an encouragement to go off the grid 20


### to generate electricity and so forth. 21


### But, these standards would need to be

-- 22

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### need to have VSER determinations that are 1


### appropriate for the types you're talking about. 2


### And some things are mo re urgent than others. 3


### MR. FELLNER: Okay. Thank you. 4


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Ms. Young? 5


### MS. YOUNG: Good morning. 6


### MR. WAYLAND: Good morning. 7


### MS. YOUNG: My name is Lih Young. I'm a 8


### PhD economist by training. I'm am here to join 9


### other civic organiz ations like Sierra Club to 10


### support the clean water, clean air, and other 11


### plans that EPA would like to reduce significantly 12


### harmful pollution and global warming from power 13


### plants and petroleum refineries, et cetera, to 14


### improve the government function and to protect 15


### people, families and the communities from such 16


### harmful damages. My main reasons are stated 17



### below. 18


### The harmful pollution affects people's 19


### health, productivity, and medical expenditures, 20


### individual, family, and social lives from both 21


### the private an d social cost

- benefit point of 22

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### view. 1


### Power plants and the refineries are 2


### producing carbon pollution which harms our people 3


### and the communities, while taxpayers and general 4


### public have to pay the costs. Further, adverse 5


### impacts of unfairness, irresponsibil ity, unfair 6


### election, and market mechanism, and unjust 7


### influence of corporation entities or networks 8



### cause serious social

- political problems and thus 9


### cost our society tremendously. 10


### To help you understand the social problem 11



### I have identified

-- I will attac h that. See 12


### attachments, including my candidate statements. 13


### I have run for public offices, from local to 14


### federal, since 1994, including U.S. Senate. 15


### And so I want to emphasize, social 16


### justice is in great danger. Work to be done is 17


### promote fairness, fr eedom, justice, peace, 18


### humanity, productivity, wellbeing of general 19


### public, resolve socio

- political issues, balancing 20


### the budget, oppose the so

- called "Fair Election 21


### Act", public finance, matching small donors funds 22

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### which do more harm than good; resources benefit 1


### bad guys as usual. 2


### So I urge the officials and legislatures 3



### to resolve the murder

- fraud

- crime

- injustice 4


### network, and the complained issues, audit 5


### complaints and finances in practically every 6 

### agency and contractors; prosecute/eliminate 7



### "murder

- fraud

- crime

- injustice networks," 8


### operation, unjust practices, abuse, waste; and 9


### rather than being misled, manipulated, and 10


### influenced to benefit them. We ought to improve 11


### government function, resolve complaint issues, 12


### protect people, families, business, and 13



### co mmunities from harmful damages on health, 14


### productivity, activities, lives, and medical 15


### expenditures from private and social points of 16



### view. 17



### Just "murder

- fraud

- crime

- injustice 18


### networks" so rampant from public and private 19


### sectors, three branches, administrat ive, and 20


### judicial levels from local to global, including 21


### legal, judicial and court personnel, law 22

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### enforcement, health services occupation, agency 1


### contracts, impersonators, facilities, et cetera, 2


### which are continuing, ongoing, relaying, 3


### infiltrating every s egment of our lives, 4


### including non

- profit civic organizations, 5


### expanding local to global with threat, coercion, 6


### falsification, misleading, destruction, 7


### tampering, destroying, concealing evidence, 8


### documents, witnesses, with endless abuse of 9


### power, law and a uthorities, unlawful, immoral 10


### acts, official misconduct, waste, unjust 11


### practices, scheme, scams, manipulation, 12


### monitoring, influences; deprivation of people's 13


### rights, resources, reputations, and lives; 14


### obstruct and destruct activities, personal, 15



### businesses , civic, political affiliation, destroy 16


### individuals, families, businesses, communities, 17


### society, justice, peace, cause homelessness, 18


### poverty, civil human rights, backwards, serious 19



### socio

- political election media, legislative 20


### budget appropriation system pro blems. 21



### The murder

- fraud

- crime

- injustice networks 22

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### can cause various abuse, false evidence or 1


### witnesses, obtain people's properties, 2


### belongings, pull hairs, cut buttons, clothing, 3


### handbags, shoes, luggage, samples, blood; unjust 4


### injuries, injection, damage s, financially, 5


### physically, bodily, mentally, lives, even make 6


### certain matches on DNA. So it would be very hard 7


### to prove you're innocent. 8



### It would be even more difficult or 9


### impossible for people to defend. And I want to 10



### mention that I have a

-- maybe we say e
- mail 11


### address, lyoung2k@yahoo.com, which has been 12


### unjustly obstructed and closed or denied access 13


### by this murder

- fraud

- crime injustice network. So 14


### abuses like other social media, the same, 15


### internet, computer. They are all obstruct, so as 16



### I have been complaining, a number of issues 17


### hasn't been resolved. So I just want you to pay 18


### attention and read this really carefully if you 19


### want to make contribution to our society. 20


### Thank you very much. And I would like to 21


### present this. 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Sure. You ca n leave it 1


### right here on the corner of the table. 2


### Bill, any questions? 3


### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you very much. 4


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Right 5


### here. Yes, right on the table. Thank you very 6



### much. 7


### Our next two speakers this morning will 8



### be Sam Loc khart and Ben Longstrenth. 9



### MS. LOCKHART: I know over there folks 10


### were saying they're having some trouble hearing 11


### in the back. So I don't know if there is a way 12


### to pump up the volume so everyone can hear. I 13


### just wanted to say that because someone asked t o 14


### give that feedback. 15


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. Thank you, I'll get 16


### Joe to ask somebody. We're borrowing this room, 17


### obviously, from some judges. 18


### But, yes, we'll get that looked into and 19


### try to create more volume so everyone can hear. 20



### MS. LOCKHART: Is that any better? I 21


### switched it to on. Okay. 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Yes. 1


### MS. LOCKHART: All right. Hello. My 2



### name is Sam Lockhart and I work as the National 3



### Outreach Coordinator for the National Wildlife 4


### Federation. However, today I'm here speaking as 5



### a citizen in s upport of the EPA's proposed new 6


### source carbon pollution standard. 7


### I am third generation New Jersian on my 8


### father's side. That means that I grew up going 9


### to the Jersey Shore, just like my father before 10


### me and his father before him. And I have always 11



### assu med that when I had children I would take 12


### them to the Jersey Shore too. 13


### After Superstorm Sandy, I no longer know 14


### if that is true and it has brought home to me the 15


### urgent need to develop serious strategies to 16


### address the underlying pollution that is at the 17



### heart of our climate crisis. 18


### And New Jersey is just the tip of the 19


### iceberg. No pun intended. Across the world we 20


### are seeing increased drought, wildfires, and 21


### floods. We are seeing unanticipated impacts to 22

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### all kinds of wildlife, from birds and fish to bi g 1


### game species like deer, moose, and bison. 2


### Climate change is the biggest threat to 3



### wildlife in the world. Here in the U.S. we have 4


### a strong tradition of spending time outside in 5


### this country's special places, where families 6


### like to fish, hunt, hike, and observe birds and 7



### other wildlife. 8


### Though my family traditions on the Jersey 9


### Shore may seem a bit different, more ski ball and 10


### sandcastles than duck hunting, we all stand to 11


### lose when it comes to climate change. 12


### I'm also a young person. That means I 13



### car e a lot about what the future of our country 14


### looks like. What kinds of jobs will be available 15


### for my kids and grandkids? Will we continue to 16


### invest largely in industries that are poisoning 17


### communities and destroying our planet? Or we take 18


### seriously our c ommon moral responsibility to 19


### invest in energy sources that are sustainable. 20


### Already renewable energy is one of the 21


### fastest growing sectors of our economy, and I 22

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### know that this rule will further spur that growth 1


### and push our country towards the future that we 2



### all need. 3


### Most people of my generation, commonly 4


### known as Millennials, have stopped believing in 5


### government as a force of good. Frustrated by a 6


### congress all too focused on denial and delay, and 7


### dismayed by the undue influence of big corporate 8


### pollut ers in our democracy, many of my generation 9


### have all but given up. 10


### Well, I'm proud today to see my 11


### government taking action to stand up for our 12


### health, our communities, and our environment. I 13


### am hopeful that actions like this and the 14


### existing source car bon standard on which the EPA 15


### held listening sessions this fall, will restore 16


### my generation's faith in our government and our 17


### country and attract some of the most talented and 18


### innovative among Millennials to make the choice 19


### to work toward our common good. 20


### So finally I want to say, thank you. 21


### Thank you in advance to all our of our champions 22

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### in congress that will allow the EPA to do its job 1


### of protecting our environment and stand up to 2


### challenges from climate denying extremists that 3


### are in the pocket of big corporate polluters. 4


### Thank you here, at the EPA, for moving 5


### towards finalizing this rule. And thank you for 6


### everyone who came here today to share your voice 7


### in support of this exciting new step for our 8


### country. That's all. 9


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 10



### MS. LOCKHART: And I have extra

-- 11


### MR. WAYLAND: Yes, if you'll just, when 12


### you leave, leave it here

-- 13


### MS. LOCKHART: Okay. 14



### MR. WAYLAND:

-- it would be great. 15


### MR. STEVENS: No questions for me. 16


### Thanks very much. 17


### MR. FELLNER: No questions. 18



### MR. WAYLAND: T hank you very much. 19


### MR. LONGSTRENTH: All right. Good 20


### morning. My name is Benjamin Longstrenth. I'm 21


### an attorney with the Natural Resources Defense 22

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### Council. 1


### Thank you for providing me the 2


### opportunity to speak today in support of EPA's 3


### proposed standa rds to limit carbon pollution from 4


### power plants. I join my colleague, David 5


### Donniger, in commending EPA on behalf of NRDC's 6



### 1.4 million members and online activists for 7


### undertaking this most important rule making. 8


### We have an obligation to protect our 9



### chil dren, grandchildren, and their children, from 10


### the harms of climate change. In recognition of 11


### this imperative, President Obama committed to 12


### achieve by 2020 a 17 percent reduction in carbon 13


### pollution from 2005 levels. 14



### Last summer in the Climate Action Plan 15


### the President charted a path towards this 17 16


### percent reduction goal. The first and most 17


### important element of that plan is setting 18


### standards for the carbon pollution from power 19


### plants that are responsible for 40 percent of our 20


### carbon pollution. 21



### But in orde r to reach the 17 percent 22

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### target, it is critical to not just set standards, 1


### but to set standards that achieve significant 2


### reductions in the level of pollution emitted from 3


### new, and even more importantly, existing power 4


### plants. 5


### I'm going to address the stan dards EPA 6


### has proposed for natural gas

- fired combustion 7


### turbines. This is an area of the proposed rule 8


### that should be significantly strengthened. EPA 9


### proposes to find that natural gas combined cycle 10


### plants are the best system of emission reduction 11



### for th is subcategory. We support this 12



### determination. 13


### But EPA then fails to properly determine 14


### the appropriate level of carbon pollution that 15


### such plants can meet. Specifically, EPA proposes 16


### that natural gas combined cycle units above 250 17



### megawatt

-- that for plants above 250 megawatts, 18


### the standard should be 1,000 pounds per

-- CO2 19


### per megawatt hour. And for units below 250 20


### megawatts it should be 1,100 pounds per megawatt 21



### hour. 22

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### In selecting these numbers, EPA has 1


### proposed emission levels that just about eve ry 2


### natural gas combined cycle unit in each size 3


### class can meet. This is not adequate. 4



### After EPA determines that NGCC Is the 5


### best system of emission reduction, EPA must 6


### still, as it has for other rules, determine the 7


### proper level at which the standards s hould be set 8


### based on the range of performance achieved by 9


### these plants. 10


### EPA's practice in other rules has been to 11


### examine the performance of the sources, using the 12


### identified system of emission reduction and set 13


### the standard based on what the best plants, 14


### typically near the 80th percentile can achieve. 15


### For natural gas combined cycle plants, 16


### there's a significant range in performance. In 17


### our comments on the April, 2012, proposed rule, 18


### we presented our analysis of the emission levels 19


### for natural gas combine d cycle plants. This 20


### showed that there are many 250

- megawatt or larger 21


### plants that achieve a net emissions rate below 22

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### 825 pounds CO2 per megawatt hour, and a good 1



### number that are below 800. 2


### Based on that analysis, we recommended 3


### that for the category of l arger plants EPA adopt 4


### a standard in the range of 825 to 850 pounds CO2 5


### per megawatt hour. We're in the process of 6


### reviewing that data again, but thus far we have 7


### seen no evidence warranting a weaker standard. 8



### There is no reason for EPA to set a standard of 9


### 1,000 pounds per megawatt hour when so many 10


### plants can achieve substantially better results. 11


### We're also evaluating the data for the 12


### smaller NGCC plants, and believe that EPA's 13


### proposed 1,100 pound standard is similarly too 14



### lenient. 15



### I'd like to address also the question of 16



### whether EPA standards are based on net electrical 17


### output, that is the amount of electricity 18


### delivered to the grid, or gross electrical 19


### production by the plant. We believe it's 20


### important for EPA to set the standard based on 21



### the net ele ctrical output of each plant, meaning 22

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### the amount of pollution per kilowatt hour of 1


### electricity delivered to the grid. 2


### EPA has proposed standards based on the 3


### gross amount of electricity produced by the 4


### plant. This approach will mask the fact that 5


### some pla nts consume significant quantities of 6


### electricity on site. What we're all interested 7


### in is the amount of useful electricity produced, 8


### and in order to allow for an accurate comparison 9


### of different plants, EPA needs to base its 10



### standard on the net electrica l output. 11


### I want to just reiterate that EPA should 12


### be applauded for issuing this proposal, and for 13


### the important discussions it's undertaken 14


### regarding the standards for existing power 15


### plants. 16


### But we do urge EPA, as it moves forward, 17



### to make sure that it s ets standards for the gas

18


### fired combustion subcategory at the level that 19


### will achieve the largest carbon pollution 20


### reductions possible. Thank you. 21


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Bill, 22

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### do you have any questions? 1


### MR. STEVENS: No, that was clear. 2



### Than ks. 3



### MR. WAYLAND: Christian? 4


### MR. FELLNER: Yes, just one question. 5


### When you do your analysis, is it you're 6


### recommending a net output basis? Will your 7



### numbers be on a net

-- you would somehow

-- 8


### MR. LONGSTRENTH: I think we will try to 9


### provide both numbe rs
-- 10


### MR. FELLNER: Okay. 11



### MR. LONGSTRENTH:

-- for you all, but we 12


### definitely will include the net because we think 13


### that's important. 14


### MR. FELLNER: Okay. Thank you. 15


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 16


### MR. LONGSTRENTH: Thank you. 17


### MR. WAYLAND: If you hav e anything, you 18


### can leave it here on the corner and we will get 19


### it to the reporter. Thank you both very much. 20


### Okay. Just a reminder for those of you 21


### who are coming in post the opening statement, 22

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### please spell your last name for the reporter over 1


### here, j ust to make sure we get it right in the 2


### docket. We have a list where you signed up, but 3


### I just want to make sure that the record is 4



### correct. 5


### Our next two speakers will be Molly Rauch 6



### and Zack Good. 7


### MS. RAUCH: Good morning. 8


### MR. WAYLAND: Good morning. 9



### M S. RAUCH: I'm Molly Rauch, R

- A

- U

- C

- H. 10


### Is that what you were asking for? 11


### MR. WAYLAND: Yes. Sorry, I 12


### mispronounced it. 13


### MS. RAUCH: That's okay. I'm grateful 14


### for the opportunity to speak with you today in 15


### support of EPA's proposed carbon rules. I'm 16



### spea king as a representative of Mom's Clean Air 17


### Force, an organization of more than 200,000 moms 18



### and dads. 19


### I'm also speaking as a mother, myself. 20


### My three children are the most important reason 21


### that I am here today because their lives will be 22

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### directly affecte d by the choices that we make 1


### about whether and how much to limit the dangerous 2


### carbon pollution that's altering our climate. 3


### I was here a year and a half ago when you 4


### held a hearing on the prior version of this 5


### standard. I'm here again today. I'll keep 6


### coming back until this work is done and done 7


### right. Each time I come back I'll be recruiting 8



### more concerned moms and dads because we are true 9


### stakeholders in this process. 10


### Carbon pollution is disrupting our 11


### planet's climate. It's causing temperatures to 12


### rise. These rising temperatures increase ground

13


### level ozone. Climate change is also predicted, 14


### according to the most recent IPCC report, it is 15


### also predicted to increase the levels of 16


### dangerous particle pollution in areas with 17


### already high areas of the t iny particles, such as 18


### most major cities, including Washington, D.C., 19


### where I live with my family. 20


### So with climate change we get increases 21


### in temperatures, increases in ozone, and 22

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### increases in particle pollution, at least in some 1


### places. These three facto rs all contribute to 2


### very serious health problems such as asthma 3


### attacks, heart attacks, heart disease, stroke, 4


### possibly the development of the disease, asthma, 5


### to begin with, lung cancer, premature death, 6


### emergency room visits, hospital admissions, low 7



### bi rth weight, premature birth, diabetes, 8


### pneumonia, even autism. 9


### Many of these problems harm our children 10


### in particular. We at Mom's Clean Air Force think 11


### that's unacceptable. Carbon pollution, in other 12


### words, is not healthy for children and other 13


### living things. 14



### Our electric utilities sometimes claim 15


### that they need the flexibility to give us cheap 16


### electricity. But what they call cheap could not 17


### be more expensive. A future of ill health 18


### created by us to be endured by our children. 19


### My kids are all in el ementary school now, 20


### but I want to share something that happened to me 21


### when my children were babies, and I'm sure it 22

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### happens to most parents. Until I had children I 1


### was a very heavy sleeper. I could sleep through 2


### anything. But after I became a mom it wa s as if 3


### my hearing became more sensitive. If I heard my 4


### baby's little voice calling out in the night, I 5


### would find myself out of bed and halfway down the 6


### hall before she'd even stopped to take a breath. 7


### I could hear her on a cellular level, in a 8



### differen t way than I had heard anything else 9



### before. 10


### Her cry wasn't just a baby crying, it was 11



### a wake

- up call of a deeper sort. "You are now my 12


### mother," I heard her saying in that little cry. 13


### "You will hear everything differently now." 14


### And I do. I hear everyth ing differently 15


### now. A colleague of mine calls that mother love. 16


### And why am I telling you about that? Well, I'll 17


### get to that. 18


### That mother love, that different kind of 19


### hearing, that's the jolt that makes us jump out 20


### of bed at night and go to our babies. And my 21


### comments today, I feel like they're fueled by 22

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### that same jolt of adrenaline. 1


### There are currently no limits on the 2


### carbon emissions from either new power plants or 3


### existing ones. And that fact, to me, is like my 4


### baby crying out in the night. It's like a signal 5


### that my children's future is on the line. And 6


### that's why I'm here. 7


### I want to end with a point I made a year 8


### and a half ago when I spoke about those proposed 9


### standards for new power plants. Moms have a lot 10


### of experience cleaning up messes. We know that 11


### most children won't clean up their rooms, or do 12


### the dishes, or hang up their coats on their own. 13


### Our power plants are no different. 14



### The carbon emissions that come from this 15


### sector are making a mess of our climate. And it's 16


### up to us, all of u s together, to make sure it 17


### stops. Our children deserve a well regulated 18


### electric power industry that produces electricity 19


### from clean sources without causing asthma and 20


### other grave health effects. It's EPA's job to 21


### set the rules that will give us the pow er 22

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### industry that all Americans and especially our 1


### children deserve. And we support you in this 2


### process. Thank you. 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Bill? 4


### MR. STEVENS: Thank you. 5


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 6


### MR. GOOD: Thanks. Hi, my name is 7



### Za chary Good, G

- O

- O

- D, and I'm here to testify in 8


### support of EPA's new source performance 9



### standards. 10


### As a climate and energy organizing fellow 11


### at Virginia Conservation Network, the dangers of 12


### carbon pollution and climate change are part of 13


### daily conversati on for me. So much so that I 14


### often take for granted the wide

- spread support 15


### amongst many of my friends for controlling carbon 16


### pollution. 17


### It is a fact that the unregulated dumping 18



### of CO2 into our atmosphere is a large contributor 19


### to climate change. It i s a fact that 40 percent 20


### of carbon pollution in the United States comes 21


### from power plants. It is a fact that we limit 22

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### mercury, arsenic, lead, soot, and other pollution 1


### from power plants, but not carbon pollution, the 2


### key driver of climate change. 3



### However, I'm not here to tell you what 4


### you already know. I'm here to tell you why 5


### regulating carbon pollution is important to me. 6


### To be perfectly honest, I haven't lived in 7


### Virginia very long. But I immediately connected 8


### with my peers on an issue that was press ing in my 9


### previous home, Miami. 10


### As an area affected by sea level rise, 11


### parts of Miami Beach regularly flood during 12


### spring tide events, there is a strong sense of 13


### the immediate need for adaptation. 14


### With the Hampton Roads area in Virginia, 15


### second only to New Orleans in the rate of sea 16


### level rise, the need for action is even more 17


### apparent. Already these communities are 18


### scrambling to adapt to these rising seas caused 19


### by climate change, battling recurrent flooding, 20


### property damage, and the prospect that fam ily 21


### homes may need to be abandoned. 22

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### Despite these challenges I am hopeful 1


### that new resilient communities will be leading 2


### our nation into the future. On the other hand, 3


### making adaptations to sea level rise and climate 4


### change are pointless without proper mi tigation. 5


### We must reduce carbon pollution to 6


### prevent climate change from advancing beyond our 7


### ability to adapt. As a society, we have been 8


### faced with tough choices. No one thinks it will 9


### be easy to achieve these dramatic cuts in carbon 10


### pollution necess ary. However, the EPA's new 11


### source performance standards are a step in the 12


### right direction. 13


### As a supporter of the new source 14


### performance standards, I am proud to number 15


### myself among those who will be able to tell 16


### future generations, I did something. I s poke up. 17


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 18


### Questions? 19


### MR. STEVENS: No, thanks. 20


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, both. 21


### Just a second. We'll be right back. 22

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### (Off the record discussion.) 1


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. Sorry, we had a 2



### little crisis we needed to take c are of. 3


### Our next two speakers this morning will 4



### be John Hill and Richard Cizik. 5



### Mr. Hill? 6


### MR. HILL: Yes. Good morning. 7


### My name is John Hill, H

- I

- L

- L. I serve 8



### as the Director for Economic and Environmental 9



### Justice at the General Board of Church and 10



### S ociety of the United Methodist Church. 11


### I’m here today not as a scientist or as 12


### an engineer, or even as primarily an 13


### environmental advocate, but first and foremost as 14


### a person of faith who is called to care for God's 15


### good creation and to walk alongside my brothers 16


### and sisters around the globe who are struggling 17


### to survive the impacts of a changing climate. 18


### I'm grateful for the opportunity to share 19


### comments this morning, for you all sitting here 20


### and listening, and most of all for EPA's 21



### commitment to address ing the real and present 22

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### moral crisis of climate change. 1


### The United Methodist Church is a global 2


### denomination with nearly 12 million members and 3


### 45,000 churches across the United States, in 4


### Europe, in the Philippines, and across to Africa. 5



### We represent a broad spectrum of political and 6


### social, and even theological views. But we take 7


### seriously our connection and love for our 8


### neighbors and are called to be caretakers of 9


### God's sacred gifts of land, water, and air. 10


### In our church's social principles, which 11



### is our official position as a church, the social 12


### principle entitled Global Climate Stewardship 13


### acknowledges the unjust impact that our disregard 14



### for creation has had both on Earth and our 15


### neighbors, stating, quote, "The adverse impacts 16


### of global climate chang e disproportionately 17


### affect individuals and nations least responsible 18


### for the emissions. We therefore support effort 19


### of all governments to require mandatory 20


### reductions in greenhouse gas emissions and call 21


### on individuals, congregations, businesses, 22

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### industr ies, and communities to reduce their 1



### emissions." 2



### Across the United Methodist Church from 3


### affluent urban congregations here in Washington, 4



### D.C. to small rural churches from North Carolina 5


### to Nigeria, United Methodists are responding to 6


### God's call to protect creation by reducing our 7


### energy consumption, shifting to cleaner sources 8


### of energy, and educating, equipping, and 9


### mobilizing our churches, we are doing our part to 10


### reduce emissions and promote healthier 11



### sustainable communities. 12


### Today I'm grateful that EPA is finally 13


### doing its part. After shameful years of inaction 14


### by our elected representatives, it's doing its 15


### part to reduce carbon pollution from power 16


### plants. 17


### You'll hear from a lot of experts today. 18


### You've already heard some this morning who are 19



### armed w ith statistics and science. And I believe 20


### that information is critical to making an 21



### informed decision. 22

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### But for those of us in ministry, in our 1


### churches, ours is a ministry not of numbers and 2


### statistics, but of names and stories. It's a 3


### ministry of rela tionships. So when I hear from 4


### Rosemary in Uganda that the survival of her 5


### women's farming co

- op is threatened by changing 6


### rain patterns and unreliable growing seasons, or 7


### when I sit with my colleague and friend, Kabwita 8


### in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and hear 9


### how his community is challenged by conflict over 10


### increasingly scarce resources, I understand even 11


### more fully my responsibility, our complicity in 12


### their struggle. 13



### The sad truth is that while we in our 14


### places of comfort and privilege in the United 15


### States have debated the science and argued the 16


### statistics, and perpetuated our polluting ways, 17



### our brothers and sisters around the world and in 18



### vulnerable communities here at home have 19



### suffered. 20


### Now is our time to act. Today I'm here 21


### as a person of faith asking that EPA move quickly 22

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### to finalize strong carbon pollution standards for 1


### new power plants as a first step in meeting our 2


### responsibilities, both to those who are bearing 3


### the burden of present pollution, and to future 4


### generations who will inheri t this Earth. 5


### Furthermore, I look forward to working 6


### with the Administration in the coming months to 7


### adopt rules for existing power plants so that we 8


### might hasten our transition to a cleaner, just, 9


### and sustainable energy economy that protects 10


### God's planet and all of God's people. Thank you. 11


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 12


### Questions? 13


### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you. 14



### MR. WAYLAND: Mr. Cizik. 15


### MR. CIZIK: Good morning. Thank you for 16


### the invitation. My name is Richard Cizik and I 17


### want to thank my colleagu e in faith for a 18



### beautiful statement. 19


### I speak here today as the president of an 20


### organization called the New Evangelical 21


### Partnership for the Common Good, though I spent 22

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### 28 years with the National Association of 1


### Evangelicals, the last 10 years as its vice 2



### pr esident for governmental affairs. And I speak 3


### today as well as a citizen's activist from the 4


### Community of Virginia. On behalf of all 5


### Americans, not just those of faith, who want 6


### action to address the devastating health and 7


### climate impacts of carbon pollu tion. 8


### When I thought about what I might say, I 9


### thought I would speak as a father, first, and I 10


### am the father of a son by the name of John. John 11


### is just 20 years of age and is a healthy six 12


### foot, five inch young man with a bright future. 13


### However, about s even years ago he was 14


### diagnosed with serious asthma. And on one 15


### occasion, before we really understood what was 16


### happening, he woke up in the morning unable to 17


### breathe. And it's a frightening experience if 18


### you're a parent and your child is telling you, 19



### gag ging, he can't breathe. It's an experience, 20


### trust me, you will never forget. 21


### Well, the good news is we got him to a 22

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### doctor's office. He was diagnosed with asthma. 1



### He carries with him an inhaler and that solves 2


### the problem most of the time. 3


### Interestingly enough, it was years later 4


### as a member of the Virginia Climate Commission, 5


### appointed by then Governor Tim Cane, that I came 6


### to understand what most people in Virginia do 7


### not. Namely, that our air in the Commonwealth is 8


### high in particulates and it contrib utes to the 9



### asthma rates that we have. 10


### And so I speak this morning, first of 11


### all, as a parent who knows first

- hand the impacts 12


### that come from pollutions and toxins in the 13



### environment. 14


### By the way, when I testified to this 15


### affect, back in May of 2012, th ere was a 16


### representative here at the EPA who cynically 17


### reported in the news thereafter that Reverend 18


### Cizik thought we ought to do something about this 19


### problem because his son almost died. It struck 20


### me as ironic that this individual, who was 21


### obviously a lo bbyist for one of the coal or other 22

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### industries in this town, thought that

-- he 1


### thought that it was somehow out of place that a 2


### parent would come here and testify that we had to 3


### do something because his very child's life was in 4


### danger. There's something a bout that, that 5


### strikes me frankly as a biblical Christian, as 6


### somewhat, if you don't mind my saying so, sick. 7


### I come also as an individual to testify 8


### about how I personally have been impacted and why 9


### I am an activist. I was asked years ago by the 10



### Environ mental Working Group to be part of

-- to 11


### be a participant, in fact, of the Human Toxome 12


### Project. And in so doing, according to the final 13


### results which were revealed to 25 Americans, I 14


### became one of only a small number of people in 15


### the world to know a port ion of the personal body 16



### burden of industrial chemicals called the Human 17


### Toxome. In my own body. 18


### And the result is that I can testify to 19


### the many industrial chemicals, plasticides, flame 20


### retardants, Teflon chemicals, and heavy metals 21


### that are present. In fact, I have varying levels 22

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### of 39 of 84, if you can believe that, industrial 1


### compounds, pollutants and other chemicals tested, 2


### that have contributed, among other things, to 3


### what they said in the report to mean reproductive 4


### health problems. Big surprise. My wife and I, 5


### for many , many years, were infertile. I couldn't 6


### help but look back and say, I wonder what else is 7


### going on in my body. 8



### Well, I know. I know the levels, for 9


### example, of mercury, including methyl mercury. 10


### And just to give you an example, it's 2 PPBs, 11


### which is relatively high to national studies. In 12


### fact, I'm in the 87th percentile, nationally, 13


### which means only 13 percent of the public has 14


### higher exposure. 15


### And I could go through all these 16


### industrial compounds, chemicals, toxins, and the 17



### re st and give you my exact levels, and how they 18


### contribute, according to some scientists, to 19


### cardiovascular disease, immune disorders, and 20


### every other thing that you can imagine. And I 21


### would dare say to you, sir, ladies and gentlemen 22

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### here today, if most Ame ricans had any idea of 1


### what is in their body, they would be here, 2


### standing in droves to give you testimony about 3


### why this pollution

-- carbon pollution standard 4


### is so important. 5


### Genetics, of course, also play a role. 6


### But the bottom line is very clear. Our EPA is 7


### doing the right thing in setting carbon pollution 8


### standards to reduce the effects of climate change 9


### that worsen smog and trigger asthma attacks and 10


### other health consequences. And I can only say, 11


### since the light has come on, this is really 12


### impor tant and I urge you onward. Do not be 13


### delayed. We all know time is of the essence. 14


### Very lives are at stake. 15


### And so I say, as a man of faith and a 16



### fellow American and a member of the Commonwealth 17


### of Virginia, God bless you and do it. It's very 18


### importan t for individual lives. Including my 19


### son's, my family's, and my own. And I thank you 20


### very much. 21


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, sir. Any 22

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### questions? 1


### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you. 2


### MR. FELLNER: Thank you. 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, both. 4


### Okay. Our next two speaker s, and I'm 5


### going to apologize in advance, I'm probably not 6


### going to get this one right, the Reverend 7



### Sarah

-- 8


### MS. SCHERSCHLIGT: Scherschligt. 9



### MR. WAYLAND:

-- Scherschligt. 10


### MS. SCHERSCHLIGT: Yes. As soon as you 11


### said you're not getting it right, I kne w. 12



### MR. WAYLAND: And Sara Chieffo. I'm sure 13


### there's an app on my phone that you could type it 14


### in and it would tell you how to say it, but 15


### thanks for your patience. 16


### MS. SCHERSCHLIGT: Thank you. This must 17


### be the people of faith time to talk. My name is 18


### Sarah Scherschligt and I'm the senior pastor of 19


### Peace Lutheran Church in Alexandria, Virginia, as 20


### well as the leader of the Metropolitan 21


### Washington, D.C., Senate of the Evangelical 22

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### Lutheran Church and America's Creation Care Team. 1


### As a team, we meet month ly to see how we 2


### can encourage our 80 churches with 34,000 members 3


### to take seriously our call to care for this world 4


### that God made and that God called good. 5



### We connect with Lutheran churches across 6


### the country in a network called Lutherans 7


### Restoring Crea tion, and we connect with people of 8



### other faiths in the vast network of the 9


### Interfaith Power and Light. 10


### We are grateful for the work of the EPA 11


### and we consider good government a gift from God 12


### and a responsibility of human society. 13


### I just want to briefl y address the 14


### stereotype that Christians don't like science. 15


### Please know there are plenty of Christians, 16


### including many in this room, I'm sure, who love 17


### and trust science, care about the environment, 18


### care about the environment's impacts, especially 19



### on the poor, and can connect the dots, and work 20


### for climate justice. 21


### From a faith perspective, I join this 22

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### growing chorus of people, including at least 14 1


### other faith leaders you're going to hear from 2


### today, who believe that there is no more 3


### important issue fac ing our world than the 4


### devastating effects of pollution from our carbon 5


### hungry economy, including large scale weather 6


### events, other climate disruptions, and a host of 7


### carbon pollution related health problems. 8


### Across the world many Christians will 9



### hear on Sunday, this text, "You are the salt of 10


### the Earth and you are the light of the world." 11


### At my church we'll sing it, (singing) "You are 12


### the light of the world. You are the light of the 13


### world, so shine, shine, shine where you are. You 14


### are the light of the world." 15


### We take that to mean that each person has 16


### a responsibility to do what they can, where they 17


### can, for the care and redemption of God's world. 18


### And like a grain of salt or one candle flame, 19



### most of our actions are small. Most of us can 20


### only influence climate change by changing our own 21


### carbon consumption. 22

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### Do you know what this is? It's a piece 1


### of weather stripping. My husband and I recently 2


### bought our first home. It's from 1954 and it 3


### needed some work. We've put in weather stripping 4


### along all the doors, we've replaced the windows, 5


### we've turned down the thermostats, we're doing 6


### what we can, and undoubtedly these are small 7


### things. But we're not alone. 8



### The Lutheran Creation Care Team I work 9


### with encourages similar actions for all of our 10


### members, and for our churches. A church in 11


### Gaithersburg, Maryland has just reinsulated their 12


### roof. A church in Arlington has replaced single

13


### pane windows with double

- pane windows, and is 14


### budgeting for a new efficient HVAC system. My 15


### church has just invested in LED lighting for our 16



### sanctuary. 17


### We encourage our members to carbon fast 18


### during the season of Lent, a season that will 19


### start this year on March 5th. And every day for 20


### those 40 days, we will take small actions, put on 21


### a sweater, turn down the thermostat one deg ree, 22

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### and we will fast from our use of carbon in order 1



### to make our voices known and to take our small 2



### actions. 3


### That will lead us to Easter, where on 4


### Easter we will celebrate in the next Sunday, the 5


### Creation Care Sunday, where all our congregations 6



### will be encouraged to focus on God's good world 7


### that day, reprogramming the thermostats for the 8


### summer, teaching their kids to connect faith and 9


### pollution, biking to church, not printing 10



### bulletins. All of these small actions. All of 11


### these little grains of salt. 12


### We do them, we trust that somehow they 13


### matter, but we know that these actions alone 14


### can't do much in terms of the big thing we're 15


### facing. Rarely are we, as individuals, in a 16


### position to make big change. But you are. With 17


### the scope of these carbon red uction rules, you 18


### are in a position to make big changes; changes 19


### that we need in order to start to realign our 20


### national pollution load with what our world can 21


### handle, rules that we need for the health and 22

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### wellbeing of people, and the future of our 1


### society. 2


### The EPA right now is in a position to 3


### make all these little efforts done by faithful 4


### people around the world, add up. Add up to 5


### something far bigger. And so now I hope that you 6


### take the call as the salt of the Earth, as the 7


### light of the world, to take b old action in 8


### deciding to impose these strict carbon pollution 9


### rules for new and existing power plants. Let 10


### your light shine. Thank you. 11


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Bill? 12


### MR. STEVENS: Nothing from me. Thank you 13


### very much. 14


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank yo u. 15


### MS. CHIEFFO: Wow. Thank you. Good 16


### morning, my name is Sara Chieffo, C

- H

- I

- E

- F

- F

- O. 17


### And I am really honored to be part of the chorus 18


### of voices that are speaking in strong support of 19


### the Environmental Protection Agency's proposed 20



### standard that sets th e first national limits on 21


### carbon pollution from new power plants. 22

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### You see, I'm here as a mom, as an asthma 1


### sufferer, and as the legislative director at the 2


### League of Conservation Voters. 3


### I commend President Obama's leadership in 4


### addressing the climate c risis, and strongly 5


### support the comprehensive Climate Action Plan 6


### that he unveiled at Georgetown University this 7



### past June. 8


### As you know well, a port pillar of that 9


### plan is limiting the pollution that's driving 10


### climate change from the nation's largest 11


### poll uter, power plants. The science is clear. I 12


### deal mostly with congress these days. They have 13


### other views. But the science is clear, climate 14


### change is happening and human actions are the 15


### main cause. People are seeing the impacts right 16



### outside their wind ows. 17


### The devastation wrought by Hurricane 18


### Sandy, which we already heard about, the drought 19


### current gripping my home state of California, the 20


### wildfires and subsequent floods that ravaged 21


### Colorado this past year. Our nation is already 22

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### footing the bill for climate change. It's not a 1


### problem that's decades away. It is here today. 2


### In 2013, there were seven separate 3


### weather and climate disasters whose price tags 4


### exceeded $1 billion. Tax payers are stuck 5


### already picking up the vast majority of these 6



### costs. D octors, nurses, scientists, and other 7


### experts, you'll hear from today and you've 8


### already heard from, warn us that carbon pollution 9


### threatens public health and is especially 10


### damaging to vulnerable populations like children, 11


### including my daughter, and the el derly. 12


### Climate change's rising temperatures will 13


### make smog pollution worse, triggering asthma 14


### attacks and even permanently damaging children's 15


### developing lungs. My own asthma attacks strike 16



### on smog
- filled hot summer days, so I feel like 17


### I’m squarely in climate change's cross

- hairs. 18


### Coal and gas

- fired power plants are the 19


### single largest source of carbon pollution in the 20


### United States, accounting for roughly 40 percent 21


### of the global warming emissions that our nation 22

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### puts out. Right now these polluters a re free to 1


### dump an unlimited amount of carbon pollution into 2


### our air. It's wrong, and thankfully we're here 3


### today to support you finally stopping that. 4


### Limiting carbon pollution for new power 5


### plants is just good plain old common sense. 6


### Setting limits on carbon pollution is widely 7


### supported, including by overwhelming four out of 8


### five young people, the generation with the most 9



### at stake. 10


### In fact, reducing carbon pollution from 11


### the nation's largest polluters is so commonsense 12


### that most people assume limits a re already in 13


### place. When they learn they aren't, they demand 14



### action now. 15


### The proposed standard will protect public 16


### health, spur innovation and clean technologies, 17


### and start us down the path of stopping dangerous 18



### climate discussion. 19


### I see you're going to get the hook. 20



### MR. WAYLAND: No, no, no, no. 21


### MS. CHIEFFO: Okay. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### MR. WAYLAND: I didn't reset it. That's 1


### why I just cut it off. You're fine. 2


### MS. CHIEFFO: Okay. I was like, oh, I 3



### can wrap up. 4


### MR. WAYLAND: No, no, take your time. 5


### Take your time. 6



### MS. CHIEFFO: So this standard will help 7



### ensure that the current market trends we're 8


### seeing towards a cleaner, a safer, and a more 9


### modern power sector continue. 10



### The standard builds on successful actions 11


### that you, EPA in partnership with the Department 12



### of Tra nsportation, have already taken to reduce 13


### carbon pollution from our nation's fleet of cars 14



### and trucks. 15


### My organization, the League of 16


### Conservation Voters, has already gathered over 17


### 200,000 comments in support of this proposed 18


### standard before us today. Our members are part 19



### of the record

- breaking millions of concerned 20


### citizens, more than ever who have stood up and 21


### voiced their support for the EPA, setting limits 22

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### on power plants' carbon pollution, both for new 1


### power plants and for existing. 2


### I get up every day fighting for cleaner 3


### air and a safer planet. I want to thank the EPA 4


### for allowing our voices to be heard today and for 5


### being a partner in that fight. Looking into my 6


### nine month old daughter's eyes is my daily 7


### reminder of what's at stake and why we must act 8


### now to stop dangerous climate disruption. Thank 9


### you for your time. 10


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Any 11


### questions, guys? 12


### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you. 13


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, both. 14


### Okay. Our next two speakers will be 15


### Ashton Lee Bailey and Greg B ertelsen. 16


### Okay, Ashton, whenever you're ready. 17


### MS. BAILEY: Good morning. My name is 18


### Ashton Bailey, and I'm a staff attorney at 19


### Greenlaw, a non

- profit environmental law firm 20


### focused on Georgia. 21



### Greenlaw in connection with the Southern 22

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### Environmental Law Ce nter and a number of other 1


### environmental groups, will also be submitting 2


### written comments to the Agency. 3


### I certainly echo many of the other 4


### comments I've heard here today. Carbon pollution 5


### is a serious problem that needs to be addressed, 6



### and the EPA shoul d not hesitate to put stringent 7


### requirements on plants that burn fossil fuels to 8


### produce electricity. 9


### However, I'm here today to draw your 10


### attention to information that has recently become 11


### publically available regarding one of the three 12


### plants that EPA l abels as under development, 13


### Plant Washington. 14


### Based on the information I have to share, 15


### EPA should determine that this facility has not 16


### commenced construction, and if it is built, would 17


### be a new source that is subject to the same 18


### emission safeguards tha t apply to all new sources 19


### under the proposed rule. 20


### As you're likely aware, the term 21


### commenced is defined by federal regulation to 22

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### require that a source have either begun as 1


### continuous program of construction or entered 2


### into a contractual obligation to und ertake and 3


### complete within a reasonable amount of time, a 4


### continuous program of construction or 5



### modification. 6


### In the case of Plant Washington, EPA's 7


### interpretations of commencing construction would 8


### require the facility to have executed binding 9



### contractual agreements that impose significant 10


### penalties for breach. According to the proposed 11


### rule EPA's belief that Plant Washington has 12


### commenced construction is based solely on 13


### unconfirmed representations made by the plant's 14


### developer, Power for Georgians. 15



### Howe ver, to the extent that EPA is 16


### referring to assertions made by Power for 17


### Georgians in April of 2013, that it had entered a 18


### contract for the purchase of the boiler, 19


### containing significant penalties for breach, 20



### those assertions do not show that Plant 21


### Washing ton has commenced construction. 22

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### Rather, the boiler contract in question 1


### contains multiple escape hatches that allow Power 2


### for Georgians to avoid significant liability as 3


### defined by the EPA. 4


### A letter from Power for Georgians to the 5



### Environmental Protect ion Division

-- or to the 6


### Georgia Environmental Protection Division, 7


### describes how Power for Georgians can escape 8


### liability. 9


### First, if U.S. EPA promulgates final 10


### standards that seek to impose greenhouse gas 11


### emission limits on Plant Washington, or that 12



### el iminate the proposed transitional source 13


### exemption. 14


### Second, if the U.S. EPA failed to 15


### promulgate final standards by July 1st, 2013. 16


### Or third, if P for G either received an 17


### adverse applicability determination in response 18


### to their request to EPD or faile d to receive a 19


### response by July 1st, 2013. 20


### Two of these provisions described in the 21


### letter have already come to pass. As a result, 22

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### Power for Georgians has, since last July, had the 1


### option of terminating contracts at its 2


### convenience. As such, the boiler purchase 3


### contract does not impose significant liability 4


### for breach, and cannot be considered sufficient 5



### to have commenced construction. 6


### The developer has not produced any 7



### documentation that cures these deficiencies. 8


### However, even if the developer has ame nded 9


### contracts we believe it is reasonable to expect 10


### that any such amendment would contain similar 11


### escape hatches. 12


### If Power for Georgians were truly poised 13


### to commence construction it would proceed without 14


### waiting further action by EPA and point to its 15



### p rogress as the basis for exemption from the 16


### greenhouse gas standard. Rather than showing its 17


### progress Power for Georgians is now seeking 18


### permission from the Georgia Environmental 19



### Protection Division for an extension of 18 months 20



### to commence construction u nder its air permit for 21


### the facility. This is further evidence that the 22

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### facility has not progressed to a point that plans 1


### could not be altered to conform to the greenhouse 2


### gas standard. 3


### I want to remind the Agency that the 4


### burden of proof that a facility has commenced 5


### construction has historically been on the 6


### facility. The Agency should not shift this 7


### burden and its rule making to itself, permitting 8


### agencies or citizens who would be burdened by 9


### additional pollution in their communities. 10


### In short, it is time for Power for 11


### Georgians to affirmatively show EPA how it is so 12


### far along in the development process that it 13


### cannot be treated like any other new source of 14


### carbon pollution. We suspect Power for Georgians 15


### cannot meet its burden and that is why EPA on ly 16


### has its hollow representations. 17


### Just a few facts to explain why we're so 18


### concerned. Plant Washington, as permitted, is 19


### expected to emit more than 22 million tons of 20


### carbon dioxide annually. It's going to be sited 21


### in a state that's going to cost over $2 billion 22

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### and be sited in a state where the primary utility 1


### already has a glut of capacity and has no 2


### evidence of power purchase agreements. 3


### As you can see, the physical and economic 4


### health of Georgians and the environment they 5


### enjoy will be impacted neg atively if Plant 6


### Washington is constructed. 7


### I thank you for your time and happy to 8


### answer any questions. 9


### MR. WAYLAND: I just had one question. 10


### Will you guys be submitting the specifics of that 11


### letter and the contracts as part of your formal 12



### comments? 13



### MS . BAILEY: The letter is currently 14


### publically available. The contracts are a 15


### subject of litigation. 16


### MR. WAYLAND: Litigation. Okay. 17


### MS. BAILEY: So we hope to, but we 18



### haven't

-- 19


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. 20



### MS. BAILEY:

-- reached a settlement on 21


### that yet. 22

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### MR. WA YLAND: Okay. Thank you. Bill? 1


### MR. STEVENS: No, nothing. Thank you. 2


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Greg? 3


### MR. BERTELSEN: Good morning. My name is 4


### Greg Bertelsen, B, as in boy, E

- R

- T

- E

- L

- S

- E

- N. 5



### On behalf of the National Association of 6



### Manufact urers and its 12,000 members, I am 7


### pleased to offer the following remarks on the 8


### Environmental Protection Agency's proposed 9


### standards of performance for greenhouse gas 10


### emissions for new electric utility generating 11



### units. 12


### The NAM is the Nation's largest 13



### ind ustrial trade association representing small, 14


### medium, and large manufacturers in every 15



### industrial sector and in all 50 states. 16


### As the EPA accepts comments on this rule, 17


### manufacturers and the rest of the regulated 18


### community are well aware that this is just the 19


### first in a suite of planned regulations that will 20


### ultimately impact the cost and availability of 21


### energy, and could dictate equipment and process 22

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### choices for businesses across the country. 1


### The Administration is intent on pursuing 2


### this regulatory path. Let's get this first rule 3


### right and avoid setting the dangerous precedent 4


### of issuing unachievable standards unsupported by 5



### statute. 6


### The Clean Air Act requires the EPA to set 7



### standards that are achievable and that have been 8


### adequately demonstrated. Yet th e standard the 9


### EPA proposes for coal is neither. There is not a 10


### single utility scale power plant in operation 11


### that meets the EPA standard for coal. The only 12


### four examples EPA can identify in supporting its 13


### conclusion that CCS is an adequately demonstrate d 14


### technology are still in various stages of 15


### development. Only two of which are actually 16


### under construction, one of which is located 17



### outside of the United States. 18


### Further, the three U.S. based projects 19


### identified in EPA's proposed rule, have all 20



### received v arious levels of support through the 21


### Clean Coal Power Initiative, or CCPI. The CCPI 22

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### is administered by the Department of Energy and 1


### is intended to help overcome some of the 2


### technical risks associated with bringing emerging 3


### technologies like CCS, to the po int of commercial 4



### readiness. 5


### The CCPI was not conceived for already 6


### deployed and commercially viable technologies, 7


### and is certainly not intended for technologies 8


### that have been adequately demonstrated. 9


### Congress recognized the intent of the 10



### CCPI in the E nergy Policy Act of 2005, when it 11


### explicitly limited the use of the projects 12


### receiving assistance through the CCPI in 13


### determining a technology has been adequately 14


### demonstrated for purposes of regulation under 15



### Section 111 of the Clean Air Act. 16


### Yet this pro posed rule

-- yet in this 17


### proposed rule, the EPA relies on these three CCPI 18


### projects in making its adequately demonstrated 19


### determination, a determination the NAM submits is 20



### incorrect. 21


### The performance standard in this rule is 22

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### contrary to the clear intent of congress. 1


### However, you need not ask congress or lawyers to 2



### draw the conclusion that CCS has not been 3


### adequately demonstrated. Just ask the 4


### manufactures of the technology and they will tell 5


### you, it is not ready. 6


### CCS for utility scale coal or gas 7


### projec ts need more time, more investment dollars, 8


### and a reasonable regulatory environment to get 9


### where it needs to go; from a developing 10


### technology with a promising future, to one that 11


### has overcome the technical barriers necessary to 12


### be deployed in a competitive marketplace. 13


### An inflexible mandate, such as the one 14


### offered in this proposed rule ensures only that 15


### the pipeline of new advanced power plant projects 16


### will dry up, sending CCS technologies overseas 17


### for international competitors to nurture and 18


### ultimately own. 19


### Investment dollars, like greenhouse gas 20


### emissions are not constrained by national 21


### borders. This kind of regulatory environment 22

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### ensures both will be sent abroad. 1



### If this rule is finalized in its current 2


### form, it will add another layer of unnecessary 3



### r egulatory uncertainty as the courts will be 4


### forced to weigh in on the rule's tenuous legal 5


### conclusions. It will threaten the diversity and 6


### affordability of our future energy supply, and it 7


### will cede the next generation of power plant 8


### technologies to our i nternational competitors. 9



### All this for a rule that EPA surmises 10


### will have no notable impact on CO2 emissions. At 11


### some point, one is left to ponder the question, 12


### what are we actually accomplishing with this 13



### rule. 14



### As manufacturers stand next in line for 15



### r egulations of their own, can the Administration 16


### commit to them with any sincerity that they will 17


### not be subject to similar, ill conceived, 18



### unattainable standards? Manufacturers are 19


### committed to protecting the environment through 20


### greater environmental sust ainability, increased 21


### energy efficiency and conservation, and reducing 22

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### greenhouse gas emissions. 1



### Manufacturers can and will continue to 2


### develop technological solutions to ensure a 3


### sustainable future. We are building more 4


### efficient power plants, factorie s, cars, and 5


### appliances, all of which are leading to lower 6


### emissions. With the right policies in place, we 7


### will continue to do so while fueling job creation 8


### and driving economic growth. 9


### In pursuit of this end, we strongly urge 10


### the EPA to reevaluate the p roposed greenhouse gas 11


### rule for new power plants and consider a more 12


### reasonable path forward based on technologically 13


### achievable standards. Thank you very much. 14


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Bill, any 15


### questions? 16



### MR. STEVENS: No. Thanks. 17



### MR. FELLNER: In your written comments, 18


### will you provide sort of what you feel would be 19


### reasonable for coal plants? 20



### MR. BERTELSEN: Yes. 21


### MR. FELLNER: Okay. Thanks. 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 1


### MR. BERTELSEN: Thanks. Just put them 2



### there? 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Sure. If you'll l eave it 4



### there. 5


### MR. STEVENS: Do you have an extra copy? 6



### MR. WAYLAND: Perfect. Mine is the same 7



### way. 8


### Okay. Our next two speakers this morning 9



### will be John Cartmill and Linda Muller. 10


### MR. CARTMILL: My name is John Cartmill, 11



### C

- A

- R

- T

- M

- I

- L

- L, and I'm one of the directors of 12



### Fairfax Climate Watch. 13


### My message today is simple. The U.S. 14


### needs to reduce carbon emissions drastically, 15


### starting now. And although this regulation is a 16


### step in the right direction, it does not go 17


### nearly far enough in restricting CO2 emissions. 18


### Emissions of today will adversely impact 19



### the climate for centuries to come. If the EPA is 20


### to fulfill its mission of protecting human health 21


### and the environment, then this Agency needs to 22

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### act quickly and forcefully. 1



### Last week in his Sta te of the Union 2


### Address, the President said, "And when our 3


### children's children look us in the eye and ask if 4



### we did all we could to deliver them a safer more 5


### stable world with new sources of energy, I want 6


### to be able to say, yes we did." 7



### Back in 1992 the U .S. signed the UN 8


### Framework Convention on Climate Change. 9


### Seventeen years later, in 2009, the EPA finally 10


### issues an endangerment finding. Five years after 11


### that we are sitting here today commenting on a 12


### proposed rule that the EPA projects will result 13



### in n egligible CO2 emission changes and benefits 14


### by 2022. Will our grandchildren be proud of us 15



### for that? 16



### The NRC assessments in the science 17


### section of this regulation detail a number of 18


### horrific perils. Dramatic sea level rise, a 19


### doubling of wildfires, an oc ean acidification to 20


### name just a few. They use terms like 21


### disruptions, coral reef die

- off, and mass 22

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### extinction. All of which scream, we must end our 1



### CO2 emissions as rapidly as possible. 2



### Winston Churchill said it best; the era 3


### of procrastination, of half measures, of soothing 4


### expedience of delays is coming to its close. In 5


### its place we are entering a period of 6


### consequences. We're already witnessing these 7



### consequences. 8


### Oyster fisheries on both coasts are 9


### imperiled by ocean acidification. And I shudder 10



### t o think of the cost if California doesn't get 11



### some rain soon. 12


### In 2011, barge traffic on the Mississippi 13


### River was stopped due to record high water caused 14


### by flooding. In 2012 it was stopped by record 15


### low water caused by drought. What will happen 16



### when w e get another Katrina or Sandy or both? 17


### This regulation also ignores secondary 18


### emissions as a result of extracting and 19


### transporting these fossil fuels. A 2011 analysis 20


### found that in each stage of the life cycle of 21


### coal, extraction, transport, processing, and 22

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### combustion, generates a waste stream that is 1


### costing the U.S. public hundreds of billions of 2


### dollars annually. 3


### Natural gas extraction has its own set of 4


### problems. Methane leaks occur in drilling, as we 5


### saw just last week in the Gulf of Mexico. And in 6


### pipelines like the one that exploded in Canada 7


### two weeks ago. Then there's frackquakes and 8


### ground water contamination with a witches brew of 9


### proprietary chemicals that have led states and 10


### municipalities, the ones that care about the 11



### environment and the health of their citizens, to 12


### actually ban fracking. 13


### Along with these dangers to the 14


### environment this regulation is also a failure 15


### economically by allowing coal and natural gas 16


### powered plants to continue to freely spew their 17


### waste gases into the atmosphe re. It gives them 18


### an unfair advantage over zero emission 19


### technologies like wind and solar. 20


### Instead of embracing the future this 21


### regulation helps perpetuate fossil fuel 22

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### technologies that need to go the way of the 1


### vacuum tube and the typewriter. One day soon 2


### there will be a price on carbon. Maybe imposed 3


### by a result of climate negotiations. Maybe 4


### imposed by a carbon tax by congress. Maybe it 5


### will be the cost of adaptation, like the billions 6


### we spent on the levies in New Orleans to replace 7



### the levies th at we spent billions on before. 8


### But my greatest fear is it will be paid 9



### in lives lost and dismal futures for our children 10


### and grandchildren. 11


### I realize this regulation is probably the 12


### best you can do. I understand how the political 13



### climate works. But I also understand how the 14


### physical climate works. And Dr. Wally Broecker 15


### once said, "It is an angry beast and we are 16


### poking at it with sticks." 17


### It is clear we must have urgent action to 18


### put a cap on the cumulative total greenhouse gas 19



### emissions. Consider ing the climate consequences 20


### we're facing if we procrastinate, does the EPA 21


### really think this regulation truly fulfills its 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### mission of protecting human health and the 1


### environment? Thank you. 2


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 3


### Questions? 4



### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you very much. 5


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 6


### MS. MULLER: My name is Linda Muller, 7



### M

- U

- L

- L

- E

- R. I reside in Stafford, Virginia. 8


### I’m the chair of the Rappahannock Group Sierra 9


### Club, which is part of the Sierra Club, the 10


### country's largest, oldest grass roots 11


### environmental organization. And I want to thank 12


### the Agency for allowing this opportunity to speak 13


### on this very important proposed legislation. 14


### My husband and I moved from Chicago to 15


### Virginia in February, 1989, 25 years ago. I fell 16


### in love with Virg inia's unique and beautiful 17


### outdoor setting. Beaches and lowlands on the 18


### east, and vapor cloaked Appalachian Mountains to 19


### the west and southwest, rich piedmonts and 20


### valleys carved by rivers and streams. 21


### I recall one of my first hikes, June, 22

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### 1985, 25 yea rs ago, in the Shenandoah National 1


### Park, along a trail called the White Oak Canyon 2


### in Skyline Drive. This challenging trail offers 3


### hikers an abundance of waterfalls and steep 4


### terrain, and opportunities to drop a fishing line 5



### to hook a brookie or two. 6



### I' ll never forget walking through the 7


### upper section of the White Oak Canyon Trail, on a 8


### humid June morning. There was a thick grove of 9


### hemlock trees, the sunlight muted through the 10


### shroud of fog mixed with the light pine scent of 11


### the hemlocks. It was pheno menal. 12


### Fast forward 25 years. The hemlock 13


### groves are disseminated due to pine boring 14



### beetles which have thrived in warmer climates and 15


### have infested weakened trees caused by drought or 16



### lack of hard winter freezes. 17


### I have family in Colorado, and over th e 18


### past 30 years I've spent many a spring and winter 19


### ski seasons in the Rocky Mountains. 20


### In June 2012, while visiting with family 21


### in Colorado, we personally witnessed the raging 22

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### wildfires and reviewed hundreds of thousands of 1


### acres of dead or infested pin e trees caused by 2


### pine boring beetles. 3


### A lack of natural controls, such as 4


### predators or pathogens or inadequate defenses in 5


### trees can allow insects to spread. Climate 6


### change can contribute to an increase in the 7


### severity of future insect outbreaks. Risi ng 8


### temperatures can enable some insect species to 9


### develop faster and expand the ranges northward. 10


### Invasive plant species can displace important 11


### native vegetation because invasive species often 12


### lack natural predators. 13


### This can have a devastating impact, not 14


### only to recreational natural preserves and parks, 15


### but also on our farming crops, agriculture, and 16


### the impact to our health based on vector

- borne 17



### diseases. 18


### This is just one example of negative 19


### impacts of climate change. We need to reduce our 20



### CO2 emissi ons. And I support any efforts to make 21



### that difference. 22

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### I want to thank you for your time this 1


### morning. 2


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much for 3


### your testimony. Any questions? 4


### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you. 5


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, both. 6


### All right. W e'll continue. 7


### Our next two speakers will be Martha 8


### Ellen Wingfield, and Daryl Downing. 9


### Ms. Wingfield. Okay. 10


### MR. DOWNING: Just one okay? 11



### MR. WAYLAND: You need to use both of 12


### them. Sorry. One is for amplification, one is 13


### for recording. 14



### MR. DOWNING: Okay. Good morning, my 15


### name is Daryl Downing, and I thank you for this 16


### opportunity to testify. 17


### I'm a conservationist. My family 18


### practice is reduce, reuse, recycle. We compost. 19


### We try to be good stewards of the environment. 20


### My wife and I made a con scious decision 21



### to have no more than two children. While these 22

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### choices are good for the environment they're 1


### almost meaningless compared to the thousands of 2


### tons of greenhouse gases that fossil fuel plants 3



### emit. 4


### There's already far too much CO2 in the 5



### at mosphere, which is why it's absolutely 6


### imperative that the EPA put in place the most 7


### stringent controls for all new fossil fuel 8


### plants. 9


### I served in the U.S. military for 24 10


### years. I swore to defend the Constitution. I 11


### did not swear to defend the right of large 12


### corporations to destroy the environment for this 13


### and future generations. I implore you to address 14


### the greenhouse gas problem in a way that's 15


### appropriate for a bona fide crisis that is in 16


### dire need of being fixed. If you fail in this 17



### task consider the unacceptable legacy we're 18


### leaving our children. You must not fail. 19


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Okay, 20


### moving along we have Anne Usher and Tanya Roland. 21



### MS. ROLAND: Leave this? 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Sure. Just right there on 1


### the corner. Thank you. 2



### MS . ROLAND: Tanya Roland, R

- O

- L

- A

- N

- D. 3


### When I was a kid growing up in Arlington, 4


### we learned very early that carbon is 5


### carcinogenic, exceptionally toxic to our health. 6


### One would never willingly ingest it. So how 7


### deeply disturbing it was to learn that someh ow 8


### when the Clean Air Act took effect in 1970, a 9



### wholesale ban on carbon emissions was not 10



### included. 11


### Apparently we have power plants in this 12


### country that account for 40 percent of these 13


### carcinogens that have been poisoning our air for 14



### decades and decades. The exceptionally powerful 15


### forces of money and profit have bought, coerced, 16


### and trumped the rights and freedoms of the many 17


### to breathe pure air, to profit the few without 18



### recourse. 19


### We have very clear laws. We cannot kill, 20


### steal, lie, cheat, extort. If someone commits 21


### such crimes and is caught, there's appropriate 22

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### punishment. 1


### We also have very clear laws that give us 2


### freedoms, that allow us to live these freedoms 3


### within the confines of these laws, or else again, 4


### there are consequences. 5


### We're blessed by life itself, with pure 6


### air to breathe, pure water to drink, pure earth 7


### to grow our food, and lots of space to move 8


### around in. These pristine elements belong to all 9


### of us, freely, and need to be protected as such 10


### from polluters and profiteers who would se ek to 11


### deny us these fundamental rights. 12


### Laws and regulations in this case are 13


### urgent. It's unconscionable that these 14


### industries have gotten away with polluting our 15


### air, water, and soil for as long as they have. 16


### All living things are at risk when we allow these 17


### toxins to permeate the only air that we breathe, 18



### and to settle and absorb into the water and soil 19


### that we drink and grow our food in. 20


### The American Lung Association identifies 21


### particularly vulnerable of the human population 22

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### when it comes to these tox ins. Just in the D.C., 1


### Virginia, Maryland, and West Virginia area, kids 2


### with asthma, 190,000; adults with asthma, 3


### 570,000; people with COPD, 380,000; heart 4


### disease, 2.1 million; diabetes, 620,000; kids 5


### under 18, 2 million; elders over 65, 950,000; 6



### those i n poverty, 800,000, for a total of 8.75 7


### million people at risk, with a total population 8


### of 8.5 million, that's over 100 percent of our 9


### population who is at risk because of air 10


### pollution, if my math is correct. That's you, 11


### me, and everyone we know, and eve ryone we don't 12


### know, all at risk. 13


### Eradicating emissions obviously would be 14



### the best immediate solution. But for some reason 15


### on the table is merely limiting carbon emissions 16


### of new power plants built after today. I guess 17


### it's a start, but it's nowhere nea r enough. 18


### In a related note, trees, forests, and 19


### their ecosystems are crucial regarding our air 20


### and carbon as well. Trees effectively absorb air 21


### pollutants, including carbon. They provide 22

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### shade, habitat, and beauty. Yet in the D.C. 1


### area, and particula rly in Northern Virginia I see 2


### little but full scale clear cutting of trees and 3


### habitats and ecosystems to put up roads, houses, 4


### office buildings. Tyson's Corner is a perfect 5


### example. Not long ago it was a forest. Now it's 6


### a blazing concrete monstrosity devoid of nature. 7


### All around Arlington, Falls Church, 8


### Fairfax, Alexandria old trees are being felled 9


### with no thought of consequence. The few trees in 10



### that little natural habitat that we have left 11


### desperately needs to be protected now. Wide 12



### treed stands need to be protected along roads to 13


### absorb car and other deadly toxins, in schools, 14


### parks, median strips, malls, et cetera. We need 15


### designated wild areas within and amongst 16


### population centers to offset the heat created by 17



### out of control construction. 18



### We n eed to replant, rewild where 19



### wholesale destruction has been allowed to take 20


### place. And the time to act is now. 21


### My mom chose to smoke. She had that 22

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### right. She knew it was slowly killing her. But 1


### power plants, cars, lawnmowers, airplanes, smoke 2



### stacks, et cetera, don't have the right to slowly 3


### kill us and our planet. We need sharp reductions 4


### and strident regulations of these emissions 5


### immediately. 6



### Polluters need to be held accountable and 7


### prosecuted for the deadly harm they're inflicting 8



### on all of us. It's up to us to envision and 9


### enact policies, industries, and actualities that 10


### will sharply reverse current trends, and to 11


### sustain our descendents deep into the future. 12


### Some Native American nations plan for the 13


### next seven generations. I think we need to plan 14


### for the next 50, 100, 1,000 generations, and far 15


### far beyond. That doesn't mean, oh, let's find 16


### another planet to live on. No, these concepts 17


### are a cop out of the worst degree. There's no 18



### excuse for this madness to continue. Needless to 19


### say, I who lly support the EPA's efforts to 20


### greatly reduce carbon emissions in new power 21


### plants. Thank you. 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Were you 1


### representing anyone, or yourself? 2


### MS. ROLAND: Just myself. 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Just yourself. Okay. Thank 4


### you. Any questions? 5



### MS. ROLAND: And those like

- minded 6


### people. 7


### MR. WAYLAND: Questions? 8



### MR. STEVENS: No, thanks. 9


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. Thank you, very 10



### much. 11



### MS. USHER: Hi. 12


### MR. WAYLAND: How are you doing? 13


### MS. USHER: My name is Anne Usher, and 14


### I'm a former journalist and c urrently a volunteer 15


### with the Virginia Chapter of the Sierra Club. 16


### First, thank you for holding this 17


### hearing. For more than 40 years the 18


### Environmental Protection Agency has been 19


### regulated

-- has been allowed to regulate air 20


### pollution because of its dire ct harm to 21


### Americans' health. The EPA now has an equal and 22

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### scientists would argue, far more urgent duty to 1


### regulate CO2 emissions. It is now beyond dispute 2


### that these emissions will not only directly 3


### impact the global environment and our environment 4



### here at home, but also directly and indirectly 5


### impact our welfare as human beings. 6


### Here on the East Coast, we have witnessed 7


### the ravaging effects of Hurricane Sandy. Climate 8


### scientists predict that we will see more 9


### superstorms, sea level rise that will alter our 10


### coast lines, and more prolonged droughts, such as 11


### we've witnessed in Texas and are now witnessing 12



### in California. 13


### In Northern Virginia where I live, this 14


### ability to regulate carbon emissions has never 15



### been more crucial. Just under half the 16


### electricity that powers my state and my home 17


### comes from dirty coal

- fired power plants. These 18


### plants are directly contributing, of course to 19


### climate change. And our coastal towns are indeed 20



### on the front lines. 21


### Some lawmakers, whose campaigns I note 22

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### have been heavil y funded by this industry, claim 1


### that taking this responsible action might cost 2


### jobs. On the contrary, in Virginia, clean energy 3


### jobs are actually increasing at a rate of more 4


### than 8 percent a year. The old jobs, the old, 5


### dirty, carbon jobs, are actually already falling 6


### off because coal deposits in very steep erosion

7


### prone sleeps, at least in Southern Virginia, are 8


### actually nearly fully exploited. 9


### Still, much more needs to be done to 10


### encourage this sector in Virginia. Only four 11


### percent of electricity is expected to come from 12


### clean renewable sources, including solar and 13


### wind, this year. Virginia's goal by 2025 is a 14


### mere 15 percent for renewable energy. 15


### That pace simply isn't fast enough. 16


### Right now we have no utility scale wind and solar 17


### projects in Vir ginia, and very, very few customer 18


### owned solar projects. This and other

-- I'm 19


### sorry, EPA proposals are ultimately about taking 20


### modest steps to limit carbon emissions from the 21


### dirtiest coal plants in our Nation, and ensure 22

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### the new ones meet a higher thres hold. 1


### The technologies to meet the new 2


### standards are readily available. Companies are 3


### already taking advantage of this. This action 4


### merely ensures that this progress continues. 5


### In Alexandria, I don't know a single 6


### person who didn't rejoice when a large c oal

- fired 7


### power plant, a plant that sent dangerous amounts 8


### of mercury into the air in addition to heat 9


### trapping CO2 , was finally retired. I'm a runner 10


### and I was really thrilled to finally be able to 11


### run along the Potomac without thinking about 12



### this. 13



### But t his has not been enough. The 14


### Federal Government must urgently intervene, in 15


### part because states like mine simply have not 16


### done nearly enough to bring CO2 emissions down on 17



### their own. 18


### We already limit arsenic, lead, soot, and 19


### other pollutants from power plants. The 20


### authority to limit dangerous carbon emissions has 21


### already been upheld by the Supreme Court. It's 22

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### now time for action, for ourselves, for the 1


### health of the planet, and for the next 2


### generation. Thank you. 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. An y 4


### questions? 5


### MR. STEVENS: None from me, thanks. 6


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, both. Thank 7



### you. 8


### Okay. Our next two speakers will be 9



### Carla Aronsohn and Richard Ball. 10


### MS. ARONSOHN: All right. Hello. Thank 11


### you for listening to us speak today. 12


### My name is Car la Aronsohn. It's Carla 13



### with a C an then A

- R

- O

- N

- S

- O

- H

- N. 14


### Today I'm here with Environment America, 15


### and I'm originally from Miami, Florida. I was 16


### born in 1990, which will date me. But a couple 17


### years after I was born a devastating superstorm, 18



### Hurricane An drew, hit Miami, Florida, demolished 19


### our house and is one of the most costly storms 20



### after Hurricane Katrina. And it's clear that 21


### this extreme weather is hitting closer and closer 22

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### to home. And the IPCC, which is made up of 1


### leading climate experts, as well as government 2


### bodies has already confirmed that the frequency 3


### and severity of extreme weather events like these 4


### will continue to increase unless we dramatically 5


### cut the carbon pollution that is fueling global 6


### climate change. 7



### And Environment America's rese arch in 8


### Policy Center's recent report, America's Dirtiest 9


### Power Plants, shows that America's power plants 10


### are the single largest source of carbon 11


### pollution. And a handful of these dirtiest 12


### plants have made up a huge portion of our total 13



### emissions. 14



### And t o put it into perspective, the 50 15


### dirtiest plants in the United States emit more 16


### carbon pollution than all of the countries, 17


### except for six countries. 18


### And if we want a cleaner, safer future 19


### for our kids, we can't afford to ignore power 20


### plants' outsized c ontribution to global climate 21


### change. Tackling the problem means cleaning up 22

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### our dirtiest power plants and setting new strict 1


### standards on the newest power plants. 2


### And now we have a very big opportunity to 3


### meet the challenge of the global climate crisis 4



### and the Climate Action Plan that President Obama 5


### laid out this past summer calls on the EPA to 6


### propose limits on carbon pollution from new and 7


### existing power plants. 8


### And we have already, the community, has 9


### already submitted more than 3 million public 10



### comm ents in support of limiting carbon pollution 11


### from power plants. And hundreds of elected 12


### officials, business leaders, and organizations 13


### have voiced their support in reigning in on these 14


### biggest polluters. 15


### And we know that there's a better way 16



### than these dirty power plants. This is a problem 17



### that has a solution. We can harness the wind and 18


### the sun, make our buildings smarter and more 19


### efficient, educate the youth about environmental 20


### issues, and eventually slash our dependence on 21



### the dirtiest sources of en ergy. 22

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### And we know what it will take to get 1


### there, and America has already taken some steps 2


### to shift away from dirty power plants. The peak 3


### of carbon pollution was in 2005, and since then 4


### we've decreased it by 11 percent. But we still 5


### have a long way to g o in solving the climate 6



### crisis. 7


### And power companies and coal industry who 8


### profit from pollution, along with their allies in 9


### congress, are definitely gearing up to fight to 10


### protect their pockets. And these folks are also 11


### just laughing from their extravaga nt lifestyles 12


### at climate change as even President Barack Obama 13


### has endorsed natural gas and fracking as a bridge 14



### fuel for America. 15


### It is also completely unfair that these 16


### affluent companies can put some of the Nation's 17



### most vulnerable communities at risk. 18


### For example, some of the biggest effects 19


### of climate change and power plant emissions, the 20


### burden is beared by some of the Nation's most 21


### lowest income people. 22

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### And these are reasons that the tip of the 1


### melting iceberg of why we need to act now and get 2



### our c ountry's leaders to join us in to supporting 3


### a plan to tackle climate change by limiting 4


### carbon pollution. 5


### It is true that climate change's worst 6


### impacts will be felt by future generations. But 7


### the crippling drought that we see in California, 8



### devastatin g wild fires, and destructive 9


### hurricanes are a problem for our generation. And 10


### let's not ignore the message that these 11


### devastating events are sending us. Failure to 12


### act would be a betrayal to our future 13


### generations. 14



### So Environment America calls on the EPA 15


### to join us in supporting limits on carbon 16


### pollution from power plants, and America is one 17


### of the biggest emitters of carbon pollution. And 18



### while we consider ourselves one of the most 19


### powerful countries in the world, we are about to 20



### fall far behind on moving towards a clean energy 21



### future and we can't afford to wait to act on 22

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### climate. So it's critical that the EPA step up 1


### and support action now. Thank you very much. 2


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Questions? 3


### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you. 4



### MR. WAYLAND: Than k you very much. Mr. 5



### Ball. 6


### MR. BALL: Yes. My name is Richard Ball. 7


### I live in Annandale, Virginia. I am a retired 8


### energy policy and technology analyst, and I 9


### worked on climate change science. 10


### Incidentally, part of my work in energy 11


### policy and technol ogy was during the '70s at EPA, 12


### and later for 22 more years at the Department of 13


### Energy. I was also a lead author on Working 14


### Group 2 for the first and second IPCC 15



### assessments. 16


### I'm speaking here today on my own behalf. 17


### I support the proposed NSPS Carbon R ule as a very 18


### important step forward in reducing U.S. carbon 19


### emissions and a signal to the rest of the world 20


### about our seriousness in mitigating global 21


### warming and ocean acidification. 22

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### However, in my remarks today I want to 1


### indicate that I believe the prop osed regulations 2


### are quite conservative and could be

-- it would 3


### be possible and desirable to strengthen and 4


### improve upon this rule in several key respects as 5



### follows. 6


### First of all, the rule for natural gas 7


### plants could be made more stringent by, say about 8


### 20 percent, I believe, to better reflect the best 9


### available technologies for generating electricity 10


### from natural gas. 11


### Many new combined cycle gas turbine 12


### plants already in service achieve carbon 13


### emissions of less than 800 pounds per megawatt 14



### hour. 15



### To lo ok at it from this perspective, one 16


### might conclude that natural gas effectively is 17


### getting a free ride on CO2 control because it 18


### doesn't seem to require them to do much more than 19


### they're already doing. 20


### The proposed coal plant standard, while a 21


### huge step fo rward, still appears weaker than it 22

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### might be since it is based only a 40 percent 1


### capture rate by CCS equipment. Several coal 2


### plants under construction and designs exist for 3


### all types of new coal plants with carbon capture 4


### and storage that incorporate capt ure rates of up 5


### to 90 percent. 6


### Plants with 90 percent capture translate 7



### the CO2 emission rates much less than 300 pounds 8


### per megawatt hour. It probably

-- and I think 9


### looking at this from a long

- term economic 10


### perspective, it probably would be economical ly 11


### inefficient to build a coal plant with a more 12


### modest rate of capture and then have to require a 13


### later major retrofit to a higher level of capture 14


### when it becomes necessary to reduce carbon 15



### emissions even further in the future. 16


### The third point is that gr eenhouse gases, 17



### other than carbon dioxide should be taken into 18


### account, especially methane which is the major 19


### component of natural gas of course. And 20


### considerable leakage occurs in the natural gas 21


### production and use cycle. I think exactly how 22

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### much is sti ll a controversial issue of course. 1


### My fourth point, if CCS, carbon capture 2


### and storage, is applicable to coal

- fired power 3


### plants, at least in theory it should be even more 4


### applicable to natural gas

- fired plants because it 5


### is technically easier and more co st effective to 6


### log carbon capture to more thermally efficient 7


### plants. Although of course, none appear to have 8


### actually been demonstrated. 9


### Designs for natural gas combined cycle 10


### with 90 percent capture would translate into an 11



### emission rate of less than 10 0 pounds per 12


### megawatt hour. 13


### From a systems perspective several other 14


### attributes of power plants than just pounds of 15



### CO2 per kilowatt hour at the stack, affect their 16


### overall contribution to the electric grid and to 17


### carbon emissions. These attributes pote ntially 18


### could be evaluated and possibly included in an 19


### integrated rule, at least in a future iteration 20



### of the NSPS. 21


### I would cite in particular, the ability 22

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### of the plant to ramp power output up and down 1


### rapidly to respond to grid needs, which can 2


### greatly af fect the ability to integrate 3


### intermittent renewables into the grid, and also 4


### the need to operate higher emitting sources such 5


### as peaking turbines or old coal and gas plants to 6


### do load following. 7


### So, if a requirement could be imposed, or 8



### an incentive in th e standards to encourage more 9


### flexible load following combined cycle gas plants 10


### that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions beyond 11


### those just in the unit in question. But that's 12


### obviously a more complicated issue that would 13



### have to be tackled in a future i teration. 14


### And as I mentioned, consideration of fuel 15


### cycle emissions of greenhouse gases from 16


### production and natural gas and other fuels used 17


### in power plants would be another step in looking 18


### at it from a systems perspective. That might 19


### place natural gas pl ants on a more level playing 20


### field with other fuels, and thus be viewed by 21


### industry as more fair. 22

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### However, an accounting for methane 1


### emissions in general, EPA I would urge to use a 2


### more realistic formula for its impact on the 3


### simple global warming potenti al hundred

- year 4


### estimate which has been used of 21, which I 5



### believe is now out of date with the latest IPC 6


### estimates, and does not reflect the latest 7


### atmospheric chemistry modeling, nor the short

8


### term impact such as the 20

- year GWP, which taking 9



### those thin gs into account can lead to an 10


### effective GWP value greater than 100. 11


### Another point is that some of the

-- I 12


### would say, however, looking at all those other 13


### improvements, since some of those improvements 14


### might complicate the regulatory process, and 15



### since bas ing the coal standard on partial 16


### implementation of CCS arguably will have little 17


### or no practical effect in the next few years, I 18


### therefore would urge EPA to move forward with the 19


### rule as proposed, at least in preference to 20


### delaying the process any longer. 21


### But it would be preferable if possible to 22

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### set tighter and numerical limits. 1


### MR. WAYLAND: Mr. Ball, I'd like to ask 2



### you to wrap up your comments as

-- 3


### MR. BALL: Okay. I'm just about done. 4



### More far

- reaching improvements should be 5


### considered for implem entation in the next few 6



### years. 7


### One other point, and this is a more of a 8


### long

- term strategy than relevant to this 9


### standard. EPA and other agencies of the Federal 10


### Government should be moving forward to analyze 11


### the overall longer term impacts of all fossil 12


### plants that may be constructed in the near 13


### future, and considering whether efforts should be 14


### put in to encouraging demonstration of carbon 15


### capture and storage technology applied to natural 16


### gas plants. 17


### I thank you for your time. 18


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you ve ry much. Any 19


### questions? 20


### MR. STEVENS: No, thanks. Thank you. 21


### MR. BALL: Any questions? 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### MR. WAYLAND: I did. I had one quick 1


### question when you were referring to the natural 2


### gas plants and applying carbon capture and 3


### storage to those. Did you say that th at 4


### technology was demonstrated or was not 5



### demonstrated? 6


### MR. BALL: I'm sorry. Technology for 7



### which? 8


### MR. WAYLAND: For having CCS on gas 9


### plants. 10



### MR. BALL: I said it was not. 11



### MR. WAYLAND: Was not. 12


### MR. BALL: Yes. As far as I know, it 13



### hasn't been demonstra ted yet, at least in the 14



### U.S. 15


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. Thank you, very 16



### much. 17


### Okay. Our next two speakers will be Mark 18


### Magana and Jackie Weidman

-- Jackie Weidman. 19


### MS. WEIDMAN: Hello. My name is Jackie 20


### Weidman and I will be testifying on behalf of 21



### Nicole He rnandez Hammer, who unfortunately cannot 22

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### be here today. So I'd like to request that the 1


### following comments be submitted, for the record, 2



### on her behalf. 3



### MR. WAYLAND: Sure. 4


### MS. WEIDMAN: So thank you for the 5


### opportunity to submit these comments. My name is 6



### Nicole Hernandez Hammer. I am the Assistant 7


### Director of Climate Change and Research for the 8


### Florida Center for Environmental Studies, and a 9



### Latino Outreach Consultant for the Union of 10



### Concerned Scientists. 11


### As a sea level rise researcher, I work to 12



### b etter understand the causes and impacts of sea 13


### level rise on coastal regions of the United 14



### States. 15


### As a Latina, I am particularly interested 16


### in what the sea level rise implications are for 17


### U.S. Hispanic communities. We know that most of 18



### the amount of se a level rise we have seen over 19


### the past 100 years is a direct cause of human

20


### induced climate change. And we know that the 21


### primary cause of climate change is carbon 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### pollution and the primary source of carbon 1


### pollution is fossil fueled power plants. 2



### That's why the proposed standards that we 3


### are discussing today are so important. When they 4


### are finalized they will put the first ever 5


### national limits on the amount of carbon pollution 6


### that power plants can emit, and that will be a 7


### big step in protecting our comm unities from the 8


### damage caused by climate change, including sea 9



### level rise. 10


### Sea level rise is one of the many impacts 11


### of climate change, and it poses severe 12


### consequences for many communities across the 13


### country. Sea level rise is linked to polluted 14



### water, loss of land, and fiercer storms. 15



### There is a lot of information on which 16


### places will be under water in the next 20, 40, 17


### and 100 plus

-- or 80 plus years, and the 18


### projections are grim. 19


### Nationally there are efforts under way to 20


### figure out what kind of peo ple are most at risk 21


### to sea level rise. Are they rich or poor, young 22

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### or old? So far, though, there is little 1



### information on what sea level rise means for 2



### Latinos. 3


### But I have compared Climate Central's 4



### list of the most vulnerable U.S. locations to sea 5



### lev el rise, and notice that they all have 6


### something in common. I have family that live in 7


### these places, in New York and California, North 8


### Carolina, Florida, Texas. Comparing the Climate 9


### Central list to the 2010 census report I 10



### discovered that these are the same places that 11 

### have the largest and/or fastest growing Hispanic 12


### communities in the country. 13


### For example, according to a 2008 report 14


### from the Organization for Economic Cooperation 15


### and Development, Miami is the number one most 16


### economically vulnerable place to sea level rise 17


### in the world. Its population also happens to be 18


### close to 70 percent Hispanic. 19


### I grew up in Southeast Florida. It's 20


### where I've chosen to work and raise my family. 21


### It's a wonderful place and I am lucky to call it 22

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### home. For us, sea leve l rise is not just a 1


### future threat. We are already seeing impacts 2


### now. Cities in our region have lost drinking 3


### water wells to salt water contamination, and as a 4


### result, are drilling new wells inland. 5



### There are hundreds of millions of dollars 6


### being spen t on projects to manage the ever 7


### growing frequency of urban flooding during 8


### seasonal high tides, and projected billions of 9


### dollars to be spent in the next 20 years. 10


### Mayors and city officials are meeting to 11


### learn more about the issue and to gather 12



### resourc es and tools to adapt to these problems. 13



### And at times there has even been discussion on 14


### how to manage or treat from urban areas that in 15


### the next 30 to 50 years may be unsalvageable from 16


### permanent inundation. 17


### My colleagues in other coastal states 18


### have very similar stories of urgent adaptation 19


### needs. We are dealing with the impacts of what 20


### ultimately amounts to bad choices, weak policies, 21


### and soft regulations that have exacerbated the 22

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### problem of climate change and now the 1


### consequences are at our front door. 2



### But there is still a narrow window of 3


### time for us to make the right choices, to take 4


### responsibility, and act to mitigate carbon 5


### emissions. The best way to do that is to 6


### finalize proposed standards for power plants that 7


### we're discussing today, and place t he first ever 8


### national limits on pollution that power plants 9



### can emit. 10


### As Hispanics we are paying close 11



### attention to this issue because we know that our 12


### communities will suffer disproportionately. 13



### Because of the rate of sea level rise and the 14


### severity of its consequences, the immediate 15


### future of our local economies, public health, and 16


### natural resources all hang in the balance. 17


### Many Hispanics like me are first

18


### generation immigrants and understand the 19


### sacrifices that are required when starting a new 20



### life in a new country. These are sacrifices that 21


### we gladly make to provide a better life for 22

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### ourselves and our families, but while we work to 1


### build a future the looming threat of sea level 2


### rise is endangering what we are working so hard 3



### for. 4


### As our leaders, we re ly on you to take 5


### all the possible steps to mitigate this threat. 6


### We know that these hard choices can't be put off 7


### any longer and what these choices will determine 8



### is what kind of future we leave for the next 9


### generation. 10


### As a Hispanic

- American who cares about 11


### clean air, public health, and climate change, I 12


### urge you to finalize strong carbon standards that 13


### reduce the pollution from power plants. Thank 14


### you for taking this significant next step to 15


### tackle climate change and for allowing me to 16


### speak with you today. 17


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 18


### Questions? 19


### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you. 20


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. 21


### MR. MAGANA: Gentleman, thanks for taking 22

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### the time to hear the public on this very 1


### important issue. My name is Mark Magana and I am 2



### the executive d irector of the National Latino 3


### Coalition on Climate Change and Green Latinos. 4


### I am here today as a member of Green 5


### Latinos representing the diverse Latino community 6


### in the United States who vehemently supports EPA 7


### in regulating carbon pollution from new po wer 8


### plants with the strongest possible rules. 9


### Carbon pollution has disproportionately 10


### negative impacts on our Latino communities, and 11


### as the fastest growing population in this 12


### country, Latino voices on this issue must be 13



### heard. 14


### We are a large coalition of national 15


### Latino organizations, grassroots supporters, 16


### community leaders, and Latino advocates from 17


### across the Nation, working to ensure that our 18


### community has an integral voice in the National 19


### dialog on climate change and energy policy. 20


### We are raising awar eness about global 21


### warming and the impact of climate change in 22

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### Latino communities and building the capacity 1


### needed to support grassroots advocacy efforts 2


### through research, policy, and educational 3



### outreach. 4


### NLCCC is pleased to be able to present 5



### our concern s at this public hearing on the 6


### proposed carbon pollution standards to reduce 7


### carbon pollution from newer power plants. Our 8


### coalition partners are deeply concerned about the 9


### continued adverse impacts that harmful 10


### pollutants, particularly from coal

- fired p ower 11


### plants are causing on Hispanic and other 12



### communities of color. 13


### Nearly 40 percent of Latinos live within 14


### 30 miles of a power plant, an area that's most 15


### susceptible to the negative effects of fine 16


### particulate soot in the air. As a consequence, 17



### Latino communities are disproportionately 18


### impacted by the toxic pollutants that are 19


### discharged from power plants. 20


### This air pollution represents an extreme 21


### health risk for the Latino community, including 22

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### breathing problems and low birth weight babies 1



### with stunte d lung growth. The rate of asthma in 2


### these communities is reaching epidemic 3


### proportions. The high poverty rate in the Latino 4


### community often restricts the housing options of 5


### the Latino community. They are often left with 6



### no choice but to live in the und esirable low rent 7


### communities that are near power plants. 8


### More than seven out of ten Hispanics live 9


### in counties that violate federal air pollution 10


### standards for one or more pollutants. It is 11


### because Latinos and other traditionally 12


### underrepresented communi ties are so 13


### disproportionately impacted by these harmful 14


### pollutants that NLCCC urges the EPA to adopt the 15


### strictest possible carbon pollution standards for 16


### new power plants that will adequately protect our 17



### communities. 18


### In our coalition's view, we must cl ose 19



### the Clean Air Act's 40

- year loophole for power 20


### plants and make them comply with modern emission 21



### control standards. These rules are essential to 22

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### protect the health of our members and necessary 1


### to guarantee the safety of the air of Hispanic 2



### communities nationwide. Thank you. 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, very much. Any 4


### questions? 5


### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you. 6


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 7


### Okay. Thanks everyone who has stuck it 8


### out for the entire morning. We have, right now, 9


### four more speakers and then we'll t ake a lunch 10


### break, which everybody is probably ready for 11


### that. But we'll go through these four and then I 12


### will open it up at the end of that if there's 13


### anybody that wants to address the hearing this 14


### morning before lunch. We'll accommodate that and 15



### then w e'll break for lunch and reconvene back 16



### here in this room at 1:00. 17


### So, with that, Lucia Hennelly and Martin 18


### Witchgor. 19


### MS. HENNELLY: Good morning. My name is 20


### Lucia Oliva Hennelly. I work with Environmental 21


### Defense Fund, a nonpartisan environmental 22

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### or ganization with more than 750,000 members 1



### nationwide. 2


### I'm here today as a member of the diverse 3


### Latino community in the United States to support 4


### EPA in regulating carbon pollution from new power 5


### plants with the strongest possible rules. 6


### Carbon pollution ha s disproportionate 7


### negative impacts on our Latino communities. And 8


### as the fastest growing population in this 9


### country, Latino voices on this issue must be 10



### heard. 11


### I am delivering comments on behalf of 12


### someone who could not be here today, Adrianne 13


### Shelley, Executive Director, with a partner 14


### organization, Air Alliance Houston, but because 15


### carbon pollution impacts Latino communities 16


### everywhere, not just in Washington. 17


### As the Houston region's leading air 18


### quality and public health nonprofit, we at Air 19



### Alliance Houston are mindful of the effects that 20


### carbon pollution has on our local communities. 21


### For two years running, Harris County has 22

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### been the fastest growing county in the nation, 1


### and Houston is the most diverse major city in the 2


### United States. It's a majori ty/minority city, 3



### and more than a third of its residents are 4



### Latinos. 5


### Harris County is also ground zero for the 6


### Environmental Justice movement. Although 7


### everyone in Harris County could suffer from the 8


### effects of climate change, we can expect our low

9



### inc ome communities of color, including many 10


### Latinos, to suffer disproportionately. There are 11



### several reasons for this. 12


### First, these communities are in the most 13


### vulnerable locations. Many of our Environmental 14



### Justice communities are in Houston's east end and 15


### along the Houston's ship channel. These 16


### communities are on the front lines of any 17


### potential sea level rise or major hurricanes, 18


### both exacerbated by climate change. The primary 19


### cause of climate change is carbon pollution, and 20


### the primary source of carbon pollution is fossil 21


### fuel fired power plants. 22

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### This is what makes the proposed standards 1


### we are discussing today so important. When they 2


### are finalized, they will put the first ever 3


### national limits on the amount of carbon pollution 4


### that power plants can e mit. That's a major step 5


### toward protecting our communities from the damage 6


### caused by climate change. In Houston, these are 7


### communities that are surrounded by our city's 8



### petro

- chemical industry, refineries, chemical 9


### plants, tank farms, and the like. 10



### Som e estimates have suggested that 1,400 11



### tanks in Houston are at serious risk should a 25

- 12


### foot storm surge occur. Those tanks threaten our 13



### most vulnerable residents. It should also be 14


### noted that these are lower income residents, 15


### including many Latinos who a re less likely to 16



### have flood insurance. 17


### Second, the public health impacts of 18


### climate change will disproportionately impact our 19



### Environmental Justice communities. Climate 20


### change will lead to such adverse affects as 21


### rising sea levels, extreme weather events , heat 22

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### and drought. Many of these impacts will weigh 1


### more heavily on Houston's vulnerable populations. 2


### Climate change, exacerbated by carbon 3


### pollution will also lead to an exacerbation of 4


### ambient air pollution, particularly ozone. 5



### Our Environmental Just ice communities 6


### already suffer worse air quality than most of 7


### Houston and under the threat of climate change 8


### they can expect to suffer more, as some of my 9


### colleagues have shared with you today, or will 10


### share with you later. 11


### Third, the health of Environment al 12


### Justice communities is already compromised. Our 13


### surveys of Houston ship channel residents show 14


### that they suffer more health problems than the 15


### rest of Texas. Fully 27 percent suffer from 16


### asthma or another respiratory disease, compared 17


### to 12.7 percent o f Texans at large. Similarly 18


### 5.6 percent of ship channel residents report 19


### having cancer, compared to 3.7 percent of Texans 20



### overall. 21



### Texas also has the most uninsured 22

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### residents of any state in the nation. Our 1


### surveys indicate that 51 percent of ship chann el 2


### residents do not have healthcare coverage. 3


### Houston has been called the energy 4


### capital of the world. At Air Alliance Houston, 5


### we do not believe we are accurately measuring the 6


### true cost of the energy we produce. It can be 7



### measured in billions of doll ars of corporate 8


### profit, or it can be measured in years and lives 9


### lost within our vulnerable populations. 10


### We refuse to weigh dollars against lives 11


### and we are unsympathetic to claims that bringing 12



### our nation's carbon emissions under control is 13



### not economi cally feasible. For more than a 14


### century, Houston has been home to great technical 15


### advances in energy economy. We have great faith 16


### in our business community. It has risen to 17


### challenges in the past and it will do so again. 18


### We call on the EPA to regulate carbon 19


### pollution from new power plants with the 20


### strongest possible rules, and on the business 21


### community to embrace regulations that will lead 22

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### us all into the clean, healthy, energy economy of 1


### the future. Thank you for the opportunity to 2


### comment and please feel free contact us if you 3


### have further questions. 4


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, very much. 5


### Questions? 6


### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you. 7


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 8


### MR. WITCHGOR: Good morning. I'm here 9


### today as a member of the diverse Latino community 10



### in the Unite d States to support

-- 11


### MR. WAYLAND: Could you state your name 12


### for the record, please? 13


### MR. WITCHGOR: Yes. My name is Martin 14


### Witchgor, and as an environmentalist, a young 15


### person, a Latino, my name is

-- I support the EPA 16


### in strongly regulating carbon poll ution from 17


### power plants. 18


### As I said, I'm a part of the

-- a member 19


### of the diverse Latino community that supports the 20


### EPA in regulating carbon pollution from new power 21


### plants with the strongest rules possible. 22

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### Carbon pollution has disproportionate 1


### negati ve impacts on our Latino communities, and 2


### as the fastest growing population in this 3


### country, Latino voices on this issue must be 4



### heard. 5


### I also work at the League of Conservation 6


### Voters and engage Latinos online and offline in 7



### environmental and climate issu es across the 8



### United States. 9



### While Latinos are a diverse and broad 10


### population, we are definitely environmentalists, 11


### as several of my colleagues and friends have 12


### demonstrated before me and will later today. 13


### I too, in my work, know this to be true. 14



### I recent ly sent out a poll to the thousands of 15


### our Latino members of the League of Conservation 16


### Voters, asking them what environmental issues 17


### were most important to them. The top two issues 18


### were curbing climate change and addressing toxic 19


### pollution in our communi ties. We Latinos 20


### understand this issue. They're important to us 21


### for the health of our families, our communities, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### and our planet. 1


### I'd like to speak for a moment to the 2


### public health aspect of these carbon regulations. 3


### My older brother, Filipe has asthma , and I myself 4


### also suffered from asthmatic conditions in my 5



### childhood. While I don't believe our asthma was 6


### caused by poor air quality in our neighborhoods 7


### growing up, I understand firsthand experiences 8


### that are endured by millions of Americans, and 9



### mill ions of Latinos among them, that suffer from 10


### asthma. Many of those children and adults 11



### afflicted with these illnesses live in 12


### communities with poor air quality, including more 13



### than half of all Latinos who live in the 25 most 14


### ozone polluted cities in the c ountry. 15


### When I think of my brother and his asthma 16


### attacks as a kid, I believe no family should have 17


### to endure that. Especially if it's because they 18


### live in the United States today where smog and 19


### poor air quality persist due to the warming 20


### climate brough t on by this unlimited spewing of 21


### harmful carbon pollution by power plants. 22

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### For our health, the EPA needs to instate 1


### strong rules to limit carbon pollution from power 2


### plants. 3


### I have grown up in the climate 4


### generation. Many of my friends are climate 5



### org anizers, working with fellow young adults and 6


### students to be climate voters, climate activists, 7


### and motivating each other to address climate 8


### change; the single biggest issue our society has 9



### ever faced. 10


### I plan to dedicate my career to 11


### addressing the climate crisis. To me and to 12


### fellow young adults inheriting our world, we know 13


### this is a huge challenge, but understand it is a 14


### necessity to get off fossil fuels and build a 15


### clean, safe, and just energy economy. 16


### I am here today on behalf of those Latino 17



### member s I work with, on behalf of my brother and 18


### all those with asthma, and together with the rest 19


### of my generation to bring their message to you 20


### and to ask the EPA to limit carbon pollution from 21


### all power plants with the strongest rules 22

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### possible. Thank you. 1



### MR . WAYLAND: Thank you, very much. 2



### Questions? 3


### MR. STEVENS: No. Thank you. 4


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. Thank you, both. 5


### Okay. Our final two speakers this 6


### morning will be Glen Besa and James Mullins. 7


### MR. BESA: Do you need both these mics at 8



### the same time or

-- 9


### MR. WAYLAND: Yes, please. 10



### MR. BESA: Sure. 11


### MR. WAYLAND: One is for amplification, 12


### the other one is for recording. 13


### MR. BESA: Sure. Fair enough. Thank 14



### you. 15


### Hi there. My name is Glen Besa. I'm the 16


### director of the Sierra Club, the Virginia 17


### Chapter. I live in Richmond, Virginia. I'm 18


### speaking for the Sierra Club, Virginia Chapter. 19


### We are extremely concerned about climate 20


### change. From a personal perspective my mother

21



### in

- law's home has been flooded three times in 22

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### Hampton, Virginia, a region of the count ry which 1


### is designated as the second most vulnerable to 2


### sea level rise from climate change in the 3


### country, second only to New Orleans. 4


### We're here to support the CO2 's actions 5



### for CO2 reductions to address climate change. 6


### But we do urge more aggressive act ion to reduce 7



### CO2 , particularly from gas plants. Natural gas 8


### is not a bridge fuel. In Virginia our biggest 9


### utility, Dominion Virginia Power, and also our 10


### biggest CO2 emitter, is proposing to build or is 11


### currently building three new gas plants over the 12



### ne xt 15 years. 13


### Their numbers, not ours. They're 14


### proposing a 37 percent increase in CO2 . A 37 15


### percent increase in CO2 as a result of expanded 16


### gas burning at a time when the climate science 17


### says that we need to reduce our CO2 emissions, 18



### not increase them. Again, a 37 percent increase 19



### in CO2 as a result of expanding their use of gas. 20


### Tighter controls on carbon is essential 21


### to meet the demands of climate science, and the 22

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### goals that this country has agreed to with 1


### respect to that climate science to keep our 2


### gl obal average temperature below two degrees 3



### Celsius. 4


### Additionally, tighter controls on CO2 5


### will result in expediting the transition to wind, 6


### solar, and efficiency, particularly in states 7


### like Virginia which have done very little to 8


### incentivize wind, solar, and efficiency. And in 9


### fact, they lag behind much of the nation, while 10


### they still incentivize coal and gas. In fact, 11


### about $38 million a year goes to subsidizing coal 12


### development in the State of Virginia, when there 13


### is virtually no incentives for clean e nergy. We 14


### have to get on with this work. 15


### So I would urge you to go forward with 16


### the regulations you have without delay, but as 17


### was mentioned earlier I think it's important to 18


### revise those regulations as soon as possible to 19


### tighten up the CO2 emissions, pa rticularly for 20


### gas plants, new gas plants, and I look forward to 21


### seeing you soon again in support of emissions for 22

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### existing fossil fuel power plants. Thank you so 1



### much. 2


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, very much. 3


### Questions? 4


### MR. STEVENS: No, thank you. 5



### MR. FELLN ER: No. 6


### MR. MULLINS: Thank you. My name is 7



### James Mullins and I am from southwestern 8


### Virginia. I come here representing myself and my 9


### family, and especially my children. 10


### I'm a former fourth generation 11


### Appalachian coal miner. I worked underground 12



### like m y father, my grandfathers, my great

13


### grandfather, multiple uncles, cousins. Coal is a 14


### part of life in southwestern Virginia. It's been 15


### the main stake of employment and the economy for 16


### many years. The mantra going on there now is, 17


### "Coal keeps the lights o n." Like it is in most 18



### other coal

- producing areas within the United 19



### States. 20


### But, you know, whenever you look out over 21


### a large city at night and you see all those 22

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### various lights lit up, you begin to wonder if 1


### there's too many lights on. 2


### I had to move my family out of the valley 3


### that we called home for 10 generations. Mountain 4


### top removal coal mining practices have 5


### eviscerated all the mountains and destroyed the 6


### aquifers. The spring that we used for four 7


### generations turned acidic. We've seen the entire 8


### creek going down our hollow, turn white from 9


### hydraulic oil that somebody let loose on the 10


### mountain top removal site from one of the pieces 11


### of machinery. And I personally, unfortunately, 12


### have been privy and participated in the act of 13


### releasing used motor o ils, gear oils, and 14


### hydraulic oils inside an underground mine. 15


### Upwards of 1,000 gallons over the course of a 16


### year, in some respects. 17


### These are not chemicals that are just 18


### easily left behind. They end up in our water 19



### sources and as the cancer rates increa se we had 20


### to begin to wonder what the next step is. 21


### The carbon pollution standard I believe 22

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### is one of the best things that we can be doing as 1


### a nation to spur on energy efficiency. We need 2



### to be able to reduce the amount of carbon 3



### emissions and increase the levels in which we try 4


### to save that energy so we no longer have to 5


### extract these resources and destroy people's 6



### homes. 7


### And it doesn't just include coal. It 8


### includes oil and natural gas. A lot of people do 9


### not associate fracking with southwestern Vir ginia 10


### and the coalfields, but it's been going on there 11


### for quite some time now. 12


### So, the EPA, moving forward with this, is 13


### pivotal for our children to be able to continue 14


### to live in a clean environment so that they don't 15


### have to worry about those risks of cancer, the 16


### risks of birth defects that have recently come 17


### out. It's just thinking back to all the 18


### destruction, it's just not worth it on the long

19


### term. We can use energy efficiency jobs to 20


### easily replace those of coal, of natural gas, and 21



### even of oil i f we needed to. Thank you. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, very much. Any 1


### questions? 2


### (Applause.) 3


### MR. WAYLAND: Is there anyone in the room 4


### that would like to address the hearing this 5


### morning before we break for lunch? 6


### Yes, sir. 7



### MR. CANDLER: I have a

-- 8



### MR. WAYLAND: Sure. That's fine. 9


### MR. CANDLER: My name is Wilfred Candler, 10


### and this is a diagram of (indiscernible). 11


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. 12


### MR. CANDLER: That's a new copy. Do you 13


### have anybody else? I'm just it? 14


### MR. WAYLAND: Sure. Oh, yes. Yes. You 15



### can go. 16


### MS. MATTESON: Okay. 17


### MR. WAYLAND: Yes, that will be fine. 18


### MS. MATTESON: Thank you, very much. Is 19


### this one working? 20


### My name is Tyla Matteson, M

- A

- T

- T

- E

- S

- O

21


### N. And 4896 Bernham Road in North Chesterfield, 22

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### Virginia. Thank you, very much for stayin g over 1


### into your lunch for a moment. 2


### I wish to speak to have the EPA set 3


### highest standards possible in order for carbons 4


### to be regulated and reduced from new power 5


### plants. 6



### It is a well

- known scientific fact that 7


### climate change is occurring and the resulti ng 8


### disruptions include more frequent and severe 9


### storms, droughts, acidification of oceans and 10



### more. 11


### Wildlife must deal with changing weather 12


### patterns. Humans are suffering with lands lost 13


### to sea level rise, violent weather events, and 14



### destructions to th eir homes and loss of life. 15


### My mother lives in a home in Hampton, 16


### Virginia that has been flooded several times in 17


### the past seven years with a 15

- inch flood 18


### intrusion from a nearby small waterway, and her 19


### walls needed to be cut out and replaced. She's 20



### on e of many who are experiencing adverse effects 21


### in that particular region in the Hampton Roads 22

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### area due to sea level rise and more serious 1



### storms. 2



### And the bottom line is for us to do all 3


### we can with your help to keep the oil and gas in 4


### the ground. Thank you so much for your 5



### consideration. 6


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, very much. 7


### MR. CANDLER: My name is Wilfred Candler, 8



### C

- A

- N

- D

- L

- E

- R, and I represent the Greater 9


### Annapolis Environmental Action. We know that's 10


### our name, we adopted it last week. 11



### Now I must tal k, please. I challenge the 12


### EPA in reporting on carbon pollution from new 13


### power plants to say what it believes the safe 14


### level of atmospheric carbon dioxide to be. 15


### That's my main point to you and I'll come back to 16



### it. 17


### First, the good news. We are not sho rt 18


### of energy. Climate forcing is positive, meaning 19


### that the Earth receives slightly more radiant 20


### energy than it emits into space. 21


### Some bad news, this imbalance causes 22

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### Earth to become slightly warmer year after year. 1


### Causation, the imbalance is caused by our 2


### use of fossil fuels, coal, natural gas, and oil, 3


### that add carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, thus 4


### blocking some of the infrared radiation that 5


### would otherwise send energy into space. This 6


### property of gaseous carbon dioxide has been known 7


### to physics since 1859, when it was discovered by 8


### John Tyndall. 9



### Our use of fossil fuels adds about two 10


### parts per million to the carbon dioxide in the 11


### atmosphere each year. Currently we are at 400 12


### parts per million. 13


### For 800,000 years, prior to the use of 14



### fossil fu els, atmospheric CO2 has never been 15


### above 300 parts per million, as shown in the ice 16


### core data which I handed out to you. We have had 17


### 800,000 thousand years of experience with 18


### atmospheric carbon dioxide at or below 300 parts 19


### per million. 20


### If you'll look at your diagram, I'd 21


### appreciate that. The red line is carbon dioxide 22

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### and it goes up to 300 parts per million. Except 1


### for on the extreme right where we have now got it 2


### up to 400 parts per million. I'm sure

-- I 3


### trust, I assure you're very familiar with t his 4


### graph, and it only shows 400,000 years, but 5


### they've got the ice core data now back to 800,000 6


### years, which is a long time. 7


### Currently we are at 400 parts per 8



### million. But there is no reason to believe this 9



### is safe. There is no reason to believe this i s 10



### safe. 11


### I don't think you'll find a scientist who 12


### tells you what he thinks a safe level of CO2 will 13


### be. He'll tell you it's dangerous, but he won't 14


### tell you it's safe. 15



### There are vicious fast and slow feedback 16



### mechanisms that add to the direct effect of 17


### carbon dioxide. For instance, as the Earth 18


### warms, there is less polar ice, which means that 19


### less of the incoming radiation from the sun is 20


### reflected back into space. Instead the open 21


### water absorbs the radiation, leading to faster 22

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### warming. The first ice

- free day in the Arctic is 1


### expected to be in 2016. 2


### The most threatening feedback mechanism 3


### is from methane as arctic permafrost melts and 4


### decays anaerobically, and from methane currently 5


### sequestered in the form of methane clathrate, a 6



### combination of ice a nd methane, which may be 7


### released as atmospheric methane as the ice melts. 8


### Depending on the strength of these 9


### feedback mechanisms the Earth might continue to 10


### warm even if we stopped using fossil fuels. 11


### These fast and slow feedbacks are so strong that 12



### it's estimated only 15 percent of the warming of 13



### added CO2 comes from the direct insulation effect 14


### discovered by John Tyndall. The other 85 percent 15


### comes from slow and fast feedbacks, some of which 16


### take decades and centuries to fully work 17



### themselves out. 18



### In s hort, I challenge the EPA in 19


### reporting on carbon pollution from new power 20


### plants to say what it believes the safe level of 21


### carbon dioxide to be. Thank you. 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. I 1


### think we have time for one more this morning. 2



### MR. CANDLER: I 'll read it again if you'd 3



### like. 4


### MR. WAYLAND: No, because we have to 5


### start back right at 1:00 and we do need a brief 6


### break. So, yes. 7


### MR. WHITCOMBE: Hold up. 8



### MR. WAYLAND: You need to use both mics. 9



### MR. WHITCOMBE: I have to use both. 10



### MR. WAYLAND: Yes. 11


### One is for the recording the other one is 12


### for amplification. 13


### MR. WHITCOMBE: Okay. Yes. Hello. 14


### My name is Timothy Whitcombe. My last 15


### name is spelled W

- H

- I

- T

- C

- O

- M

- B

- E. I live in 16


### Hernico, Virginia, which is a suburb of Richmond. 17



### I'm a volunteer for the Sierra Club, but today 18


### I'm speaking for myself. I would like to thank 19


### you for the opportunity to speak today. 20


### In 2007 the Supreme Court of the United 21


### States ruled that greenhouse gases, including 22

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### carbon dioxide, fit well within the Clean Air 1



### Act's defi nition of air pollutant. Greenhouse 2


### gasses are causing global warming and climate 3


### change. From what I have read, virtually every 4


### atmospheric scientist in the world now believes 5


### that greenhouse gasses, including carbon dioxide 6


### are causing global warming a nd climate change. 7


### Global warming and climate change have 8


### already caused sea level rise. And this has been 9


### conclusively measured and proven. Sea level rise 10


### is already causing problems in flooding in 11


### Hampton Roads and in Norfolk, which is home to 12



### Americ a's and the world's largest Naval base. 13


### Global warming and climate change have 14


### already caused ice cap melting in Greenland and 15


### in the Arctics. Atmospheric carbon dioxide 16


### levels have now risen to above 400 parts per 17


### million, and this has been measured an d proven. 18


### This present level of carbon dioxide has not been 19


### seen in the atmosphere at any time in the last 20


### 800,000 years. 21


### Every year coal

- fired power plants are 22

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### dumping over 2 billion tons of dangerous carbon 1


### pollution and other pollutants into the air. 2


### These proposed regulations, which will 3


### affect only new coal

- fired power plants, will be 4


### just a small step towards dealing with the 5


### massive problem of carbon pollution. Far, far 6



### more needs to be done before all of us can 7



### breathe easier. 8


### Richmond, Virginia has four coal

- fired 9


### power plants within 25 miles of the city. There 10


### is a major coal

- fired power plant in Chesterfield 11


### County, and there is also a coal

- fired power 12


### plant on the campus of the University of 13



### Richmond. 14



### I've been told that Richmond has twice 15


### been named the Asthma Capital of the United 16


### States due to its high prevalence of asthma. 17


### Last July I began a walking program to 18


### help me lose weight and also to improve my 19


### health. I was taking a brisk and enjoyable walk 20


### of about three miles each and every day. My 21


### walks reminded me of my days as a track and 22

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### cross
- country and road runner many years ago. 1


### Then in October, I got a bad cough. My 2


### doctor diagnosed me with bronchitis. My cough 3


### was so bad that I was forced to discontinue my 4


### walking program. I h ave not been walking since 5



### last October. 6


### I urge you to implement these rules on 7


### limiting carbon pollution from new power plants, 8


### which are just simply a first step in dealing 9


### with an enormous problem. Thank you, very much 10


### for your consideration. 11



### MR. WAY LAND: Thank you, very much. 12


### MR. WHITCOMBE: Okay. 13


### MR. WAYLAND: And thanks to everyone who 14


### took time and energy and effort to come this 15


### morning and address the hearing. I can assure 16


### you, your comments will be taken to heart as we 17


### work through the publi c comment process, towards 18


### issuing the final rule. A lot of you have spoken 19


### to the existing source plant rule that's due in 20



### June via the President's Climate Action Plan. 21


### Those comments, I assure you, will also be taken 22

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### into account as we work on that pro posal and move 1



### towards June. 2


### So, thank you very much for coming. 3


### Thank you very much for your comments, and at 4


### this time the hearing will be in recess until 5


### 1:00. Thank you. 6


### (Recess from 12:30 p.m. until 1:00 p.m.) 7



### -- AFTERNOON SESSION

-- 8



### 1:00 p.m. 9


### MS. ROSENBERG: All right. So, welcome. 10


### Good afternoon. Thank you for attending this 11


### public hearing. 12


### My name is Julie Rosenberg. I'm the 13



### chief of the state and local branch in EPA's 14


### Climate Protection Partnership Division. I'm 15


### chairing this af ternoon's panel. With me are 16



### Christian Fellner with our Sector's Policies and 17


### Programs Division, and Jim Ketchan

- Colwill, who 18


### is with our Office of Policy Analysis and Review. 19


### So we're here today to listen to your 20


### comments on EPA's proposed carbon polluti on 21


### standard for new power plants. EPA published the 22

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### proposed standards in the Federal Register on 1


### January 8th of 2014. These comments a step under 2


### the Clean Air Act would, for the first time, set 3


### national limits on the amount of carbon pollution 4


### power pl ants built in the future can emit. 5


### EPA is proposing to set an emissions 6


### standard, 1,100 pounds of carbon dioxide per 7


### megawatt hour on a gross output basis for new 8



### fossil

- fired utility boilers and for integrated 9


### gasification combined cycle units. 10



### EPA is als o proposing standards for 11


### natural gas

- fired combustion turbines. Those 12


### proposed standards are 1,000 pounds of CO2 per 13


### megawatt hour for large combustion units, and 14


### 1,100 pounds of CO2 per megawatt hour for small 15



### combustion turbine units. 16


### The Agency's prop osal does not apply to 17


### existing units. EPA's proposed standard reflects 18


### the ongoing trend in the power sector to build 19


### cleaner, lower emitting power plants. The 20


### proposal is flexible and would help minimize 21


### carbon pollution through the deployment of the 22

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### s ame types of modern technologies that power 1


### companies are already using to build the next 2


### generation of power plants. 3


### EPA's proposal would ensure that this 4


### progress towards a cleaner, safer, and more 5


### modern power sector continues. Today we're 6


### accepting or al comments on all aspects of our 7


### proposal and we'll prepare a written transcript 8


### of the hearing. The transcript will be available 9


### as part of the official record for this rule and 10


### placed in the regulatory docket. 11


### We're also accepting written comments on 12



### t he proposal until March 10th, 2014, at the 13


### registration area in the lobby. There are 14


### handouts with detailed information outlining how 15


### to submit written comments by mail, fax, or 16


### electronically. 17


### EPA will consider your comments as we 18


### move forward to complet e a final rule. Written 19


### statements and supporting information submitted 20


### during the comment period will be considered with 21


### the same weight as any oral comments and 22

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### supporting information presented today. 1


### Let me describe the logistics for today's 2


### hearing. I will call scheduled speakers to the 3


### table in pairs. When it's your turn to speak 4


### please state your name and your affiliation 5


### before you begin your testimony. It would help 6


### our court reporter if you spell out your name. 7


### In order to be fair to everyone, we will 8


### limit your testimony to five minutes each and ask 9


### that everyone remain at the table until both 10


### speakers in the pair have finished. After you 11


### finish your testimony then we, members of the 12


### panel, might ask you a few clarifying questions. 13


### If you wan t to provide a copy of your testimony 14


### you can give a copy to the registration desk in 15


### the lobby, or you submit them to the docket the 16


### way I mentioned earlier. 17


### We have a timekeeping system consisting 18


### of green, yellow, and red lights to help you keep 19



### track of your five minutes to speak. And when 20


### you begin speaking, the green light will come on, 21


### the yellow light will signal that you have one 22

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### minute left to speak and the red light indicates 1


### that you have passed five minutes and I will ask 2


### you to please comple te your testimony. 3


### Today's hearing started at 9:00 and is 4


### going to be running until 8:00 p.m. or later if 5


### necessary, depending on the number of speakers. 6


### We're taking a break from 5:00 to 6:00 for 7


### dinner. If you've already registered to speak 8



### we've tri ed to accommodate requests for specific 9



### time slots. 10


### We ask your patience as we proceed 11


### through the list of speakers. We may need to 12


### make some adjustments. 13


### If any questions arise throughout the 14


### day, please see someone at the registration table 15



### for assi stance. We also have assistants here in 16


### the room, so thank you for participating and we 17


### can get started. 18


### So I'm calling up the first two speakers 19


### are Shahara Huzano. Forgive me if I mispronounce 20


### your name. Come on up. And Mark Sheridan. No 21



### Mark Sherid an? Okay. 22

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### So you can go ahead and have a seat. 1


### State your name and you can spell it for our 2



### record. 3


### MS. HUAZANO: Good afternoon. My name is 4



### Sahara

-- 5


### (Discussion off the record.) 6


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Go ahead. 7


### MS. HUAZANO: Good afternoon, my name is 8



### Sahara, S

- A

- H

- A

- R

- A, and I'm a citizen from rural 9



### California. 10


### I wanted to speak today with the EPA 11


### first ever carbon pollution standard for new 12


### power plants and how this will benefit the 13


### American people. 14


### The science and data before us, 15



### inconclusive. S cientists tell us that climate 16


### change is real. It is happening and it's 17


### present. Some very real threats to our health 18


### and societal wellbeing fueled by carbon pollution 19



### doctors and nurses tell us that as the 20


### temperature rises, so will the instances of smo g 21


### inducive asthma and respiratory illnesses. 22

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### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Excuse me. Please 1


### speak right into the microphone so everyone can 2


### hear you. 3


### MS. HUAZANO: Oh, sorry. As a citizen 4


### who grew up in an environmental justice community 5


### in rural California, I can tell you that we need 6


### the carbon standard to be strong and efficient to 7


### protect the health of my mother, my father, and 8


### my neighbors. 9



### I see firsthand the detrimental health 10


### effects that carbon pollution and other dangerous 11


### pollutants from coal

- fire d power plants pose to 12


### communities. Tens of thousands of people from 13


### Virginia to California, to right here in D.C. 14



### suffer from the real and sometimes fatal 15


### consequences of power plants, not bearing 16


### responsibility to the pollution they spew out. 17



### This not o nly devastates families, but it 18


### also increases the burden through our already 19


### strapped health service programs. 20


### In closing, I want to thank EPA for their 21


### efforts to protect public health, protect our 22

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### planet, and spur 21st Century innovation and 1



### modernizat ion through energy fleet. I urge EPA 2


### to move forward quickly with this critically 3


### important standard. Thank you. 4


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Any 5


### questions? 6


### (No response.) 7



### MS. ROSENBERG: Where in California are 8


### you from? I didn't get

-- 9



### MS. HUAZANO: Southern California. 10


### MS. ROSENBERG: Oh, southern California. 11


### Okay. 12



### MS. HUAZANO: Yes. 13


### MS. ROSENBERG: I thought you mentioned a 14


### town I didn't catch. Okay. Thank you. 15



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Thanks for 16


### appearing. 17


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. The next panel is 18


### Molly Simon and Andy Ludwig. 19


### MS. SIMON: Hello. Thank you for holding 20


### this public

-- 21


### MS. ROSENBERG: Can you state your name 22

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### for the court reporter. 1


### MS. SIMON: Oh, sorry. My name is Molly 2



### Simon. 3


### Hello. Thank you for holding this public 4


### hearing. My name is Molly Simon , and I am an 5


### intern at the National Wildlife Federation, a 6


### concerned citizen, and a strong supporter of 7


### carbon regulations for power plants. 8


### Last year I went on a faith

- based mission 9


### trip to Costa Rica to work on climate change 10



### issues . I had studied climate change extensively 11


### at Villanova University , and I felt confident 12


### that I had sound understanding of the issues. 13


### But when I arrived in Costa Rica my eyes were 14


### opened. 15


### I heard stories from people who have been 16



### forced to relocate due to their homes being taken 17


### over by rising sea levels. I also got to see 18


### firsthand how changing climate, rising sea 19


### levels, and more extreme weather were affecting 20


### the sea turtle populations who use the beaches to 21


### lay their eggs. It was truly moving to pu t a 22

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### face on these climate issues. 1



### Not soon after I returned home Hurricane 2


### Sandy hit the east coast. And suddenly climate 3


### change wasn't only affecting the people and 4


### wildlife I had met in a developing country. It 5


### was affecting my friends and family. The New 6


### Jersey beaches where I had spent countless summer 7


### days going on ocean swims with my dad, fishing 8


### with my uncle, or relaxing with friends, were 9


### devastated. For days and weeks family members 10


### and friends were without power. 11


### As it began to get colder on e of my 12


### friends from Long Island had her mother and 13


### brother, who were still without power well into 14


### November, come live with her in her college 15


### apartment. It was startling to see climate 16


### change happening in front of me. Not just in 17



### books and in the class room, but to the people I 18



### knew. 19


### Extreme weather brought on by climate 20


### change is being seen across the United States. 21


### The people of California are experiencing 22

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### powerful droughts that are only predicted to 1



### worsen. 2


### Out west they are also experiencing more 3


### frequent and intense forest fires. And those 4


### living on the eastern seaboard are at risk for 5


### more powerful hurricanes. 6


### There are people across America and 7


### around the world who are constantly threatened by 8


### changing climate. It's significantly altering 9



### thei r lives and impacting them in a negative way. 10


### I strongly believe that climate change is the 11


### greatest challenge facing us today. If we don't 12


### act on climate, we are putting future 13


### generations, the American economy, and our lives 14



### at risk. 15



### Carbon emissions from power plants are 16


### one of the most significant contributors to 17


### climate change, and I believe that it's 18


### imperative that the EPA moves forward with the 19


### proposed limits to carbon

-- power plant carbon 20



### emissions. 21


### As a young adult, recent graduate, and 22

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### pe rson of Catholic faith, I urge the EPA to take 1


### a strong stand on carbon regulations for power 2


### plants and I applaud the EPA for taking these 3


### critical first steps. 4


### Thanks, very much, for your time. 5


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Do you have 6


### any questions? 7



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: I do not. 8


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Thank you. 9



### MR. LUDWIG: I was told I'd be able to 10


### connect this to a projector so I apologize to 11


### anybody who can't see this. But hopefully you 12



### will

-- is it okay if I put this here? 13


### MS. SIMON: Oh, yeah. Go for it. 14


### MR. LUDWIG: Hopefully you all can see 15


### that and if anybody wants to move you're welcome 16



### to. 17


### Well, thank you for your time. My name 18


### is Andy Ludwig, L

- U

- D

- W

- I

- G. 19


### Energy and the environment are my 20


### passions, and I believe I'm uniquely qualif ied to 21


### discuss the proposed legislation as I've worked 22

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### on both sides of the issue. 1


### In my previous role, I helped utilities 2


### like PEPCO procure their electricity for the 3


### upcoming year, and these are usually auctions 4


### where the lowest price power plants win th e bid. 5



### In some cases the format was an RFP for a new 6


### generation to be built. So there is going to be 7



### a 30

- plus year effect based on the result. 8


### When my company scrutinized the RFP 9


### evaluation rules for a utility in Oregon, we 10


### discovered that the playing f ield was tilted 11


### heavily in favor of large coal plants. And this 12


### is because state public service commissions, like 13


### the DCPSC, write rules where the final cost to 14


### rate payers is paramount. 15


### And this was in super

- green Oregon. You 16


### know, the birthplace of gr anola and hippies. Or 17


### so Wikipedia told me. 18


### Anyway, even in Oregon dirty coal plants 19


### have the advantage as things stand. 20


### Currently I manage energy efficiency 21


### projects at a university here in D.C. Some 22

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### people have been saying that regulating power 1


### pla nts isn't necessary as the market will drive 2


### out old inefficient plants and the demand will 3


### decline as every company and organization are 4


### starting to realize that energy efficiency is the 5


### best investment they can make. And it really is. 6


### Well, we're attack ing inefficiencies on 7


### all fronts, even with some government support, 8


### and it's not going to be enough. We have 9


### invested millions of dollars over the past few 10


### years and have only made a three percent 11



### reduction in our emissions and we're ahead of the 12



### curve. 13


### In an optimistic scenario, we'll reduce 14


### our greenhouse gas emissions 30 percent by 2025, 15


### but all of those reductions will be eaten up by 16


### the new buildings that we're adding. And we're 17


### not alone. Growth is king. 18


### Simply put, the market won't put dirty 19



### coal out of business. Only you can. 20


### You already know the predictions from the 21


### vast majority of scientific community about the 22

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### worst impacts. Extreme heat waves, drought, 1


### extreme weather events. But let me add a couple 2


### that are personal to me. 3



### I have a dau ghter on the way. If she 4


### lives to be 85, she'll be around in 2100, the 5


### year most climate predictions stop and also when 6


### they're the scariest. A year without a winter, 7


### like last year, might become common. 8


### Sea level rise might bring the Potomac up 9



### on to C onstitution Avenue. I hope you all have a 10


### canoe for your commute. 11


### But that's way into the future so let me 12


### talk about now. This is my little puppy. She 13


### loves to play usually, but she now has Lyme 14


### disease and is unable to run around on some days 15



### due to the joint pain. It's already been 16


### observed that the changing climate is spreading 17


### the reach of mosquitoes and ticks where they can 18


### impact more pets and people. 19


### And from a global perspective, I spent 20


### Christmas and New Years in China a few years ago. 21



### Even then the smog was palpable. One of the main 22

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### things my friends and I will remember is all of 1


### the locals hacking up phlegm and spitting on the 2


### street. Men, women, children, (spitting sound) 3


### everywhere. 4



### China is in that situation because of 5


### coal plants. Please do not allow us to enable 6


### China to continue to do that. Better yet, let's 7


### join the rest of the international community in 8


### recognizing CO2 as a pollutant and do something 9


### about it, which we've begun the process for. 10


### It's way too late to be a leader in this 11


### realm, since everyone has signed the Ky oto 12


### Protocol but us. But if we take a strong stand 13


### on this China will feel the pressure to follow 14


### suit, and that's when we'll make a difference 15


### globally. 16


### Your actions after this hearing and 17


### fighting for what 's right could improve the 18


### world. Please don't let this opportunity go up 19


### in smoke. After all, it's like buying insurance. 20


### Jim, do you buy car insurance? 21



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: I do. 22

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### MR. LUDWIG: You do. And Julie, do you 1



### have home insurance? 2



### MS. R OSENBERG: Yes. 3


### MR. LUDWIG: And Christian, what about 4


### you? Do you have health insurance? 5



### MR. FELLNER: Yes. 6


### MR. LUDWIG: Glad to hear it. Limiting 7


### pollution from coal plants is the most prudent 8


### path forward and is similar to something you've 9



### done b efore with car emissions. It's such a 10


### small price to pay to avoid these catastrophic 11


### consequences, so I, my daughter, and other cute 12


### little puppies will be very glad that you did. 13


### Thank you. 14


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Questions? 15



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: W hat kind of 16


### projects

-- you mentioned you manage energy 17


### efficiency projects? 18



### MR. LUDWIG: Correct. 19



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Just briefly, what 20


### type? 21


### MR. LUDWIG: Changing lights to be more 22

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### efficient, boilers, chillers, and behavior change 1


### to get our students to compete to reduce their 2


### water and energy consumption. 3



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Thank you. 4


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. 5



### MR. LUDWIG: Sure. 6


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. The next panel is 7



### Jessica Eckdish and Susan Stillman. 8



### MS. STILLMAN: Did I hear Stillman? 9



### M S. ROSENBERT: Yes. 10


### MS. STILLMAN: First or second up? First 11



### or second? 12



### MS. STILLMAN: Second. 13


### MS. ROSENBERG: Second up. 14


### MS. ECKDISH: Okay. Can you hear me 15


### okay? 16



### MS. ROSENBERG: Not well. 17



### MS. ECKDISH: Is that better? 18



### MS. ROSENBERG: That's better. 19


### MS. ECKDISH: Okay. Great. Good 20


### afternoon. My name is Jessica Eckdish and I am 21


### speaking today as a representative of the Sierra 22

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### Club as well as a private citizen. 1


### I appreciate the opportunity to speak 2


### with you today about your effort to tackle carbon 3


### pollution from power plants, and what I consider 4


### to be the biggest challenge of our time, the 5


### urgent need for action on climate change. 6


### There is overwhelming consensus within 7


### the scientific community that in order to avoid 8


### catastrophic and irreversible da mage to our 9


### planet, we need to limit the increase in average 10


### global temperature to two degrees Celsius. 11


### So far we've already raised this 12


### temperature almost one degree Celsius. 13


### At this point, in order to stay below a 14


### two degree increase scientists estim ate that 15


### humans can pour roughly 565 more gigatons of 16


### carbon dioxide into the atmosphere by 2050. The 17


### scary fact is that globally we have five times 18


### that number in proven coal, oil, and gas 19



### reserves. 20


### In short, the fossil fuel we're currently 21


### planning to b urn is five times higher than what 22

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### scientists think is safe. 1


### Last year the World Bank said that we are 2


### currently on track to warm the planet by four 3


### degrees this century. After only one degree of 4


### temperature increase, we've already seen sea 5


### levels rise, extreme storms like Hurricane Sandy 6


### devastate communities, and catastrophic droughts, 7


### floods, and wild fires all across the country. 8


### I don't like thinking about what would 9


### happen if the Earth warmed by four degrees or 10



### even more. And we know who and wha t is to blame 11


### for these changes. According to the latest 12


### report from the IPCC, there is now 95 percent 13


### certainty that humans are responsible for the 14


### warming of the last 50 years or so. And the 15


### strong consensus in the scientific community 16



### attributes a lar ge part of this to fossil fuel 17


### consuming power plants that dump greenhouse 18


### gasses into the atmosphere every day. 19


### Fossil fueled power plants are the single 20


### largest source of climate pollution in the United 21


### States and currently do not have to meet any 22

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### nation al carbon limits. Power plants have been 1


### free to pollute our air and water, poison nearby 2


### communities, and pose a catastrophic threat to 3



### our climate. 4


### For years the U.S. has lagged behind 5


### other countries and failed to step up as a leader 6


### in the climate fig ht. But thankfully I think I'm 7


### finally seeing leadership. The EPA's effort to 8


### clean up dirty dangerous power plants is a 9


### critical step in the right direction. One that 10


### has the potential to dramatically cut our carbon 11


### pollution, protect families, and tra nsition our 12


### energy sector towards cleaner, renewable energy 13



### sources. 14


### Clean energy is no longer some far

- off 15


### goal. It is here now. Our carbon policy should 16



### reflect the world that we want to live in; one 17


### where we power our homes and cars with energy 18



### source s that don't poison our air and our 19


### climate, but support a thriving green economy. 20


### Thank you for this opportunity to 21


### testify. I strongly urge the EPA to move forward 22

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### with a strong and just standard for new power 1


### plants that reflects the future that I wa nt to 2


### see. Thank you. 3


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Any 4


### questions? 5


### (No response.) 6


### MS. STILLMAN: My name is Susan Stillman. 7


### Can you hear me? 8



### MS. ROSENBERG: Yes. 9


### MS. STILLMAN: Okay. My name is Susan 10


### Stillman. I live in Vienna, Virginia, and thank 11



### you for the opportunity to speak today. I have a 12



### little bit of a cold. 13


### So many people think that our obligation 14


### in a democracy is done when we vote. I don't 15


### agree with that. We have to stand up and speak 16


### up about the things that we feel strongly about. 17



### An d I care about the effects of climate change. 18


### And I'm not alone. Pulling data from 19


### Stanford University, from Yale, from the Sierra 20


### Club, says that greater than 50 percent of the 21


### population thinks that the government needs to do 22

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### more about mitigating cli mate change. And that's 1


### what I'm hoping you all will do with your rules. 2


### You've done a great job with the automobile 3


### rules. Let's move on to the stationary 4


### generation of electricity. 5


### But even with this polling data I can 6


### only speak for myself and I'm se riously 7



### concerned. I've drawn the conclusion that we 8


### need to drastically reduce the emissions from 9


### coal and gas

- fired power plants. 10


### Strong regulation that deals with gas 11


### emissions, greenhouse gas emissions, carbon 12


### pollution, particulate matter, and othe r 13


### pollutants will benefit all Americans. We'll all 14


### be better off. We've got to move off fossil fuel 15


### generation for electricity. Postponing the 16


### inevitable won't make it easier. It will just 17



### make it harder. 18


### Power companies complain that moving to 19



### clean r enewable energy is going to be expensive 20


### for their rate payers. I contend that the 21


### current cheap electricity isn't cheap at all. 22

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### Just look at the weather disasters that we're 1


### paying for. Look to the cost of individuals in 2


### society for the storms, drought s, and wildfires. 3


### I think about the place where I went to 4


### the beach as a child, Virginia Beach. It's at 5



### serious risk of sea level rise due to climate 6


### change. I think about where I go now, Cape Cod, 7



### which is also at risk to sea level rise from 8



### climate c hange. 9


### Add this to the potential devastating 10


### storms cause for these coastal communities, and 11


### you have every reason to act. 12


### Consider the health harms caused by 13


### burning coal. Richmond, Virginia is one of the 14


### top asthma capitals in the Nation for the last 15



### t wo or three years. Just recently there was an 16


### article in the New York Times about how expensive 17


### asthma medications have become. So you add the 18


### growing rate of asthma to the added expense, and 19


### we're talking about cheap electricity not being 20


### so cheap anymo re. 21


### I live in the Commonwealth of Virginia 22

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### where our largest utility fights clean renewable 1


### energy and energy efficiency. They don't install 2


### wind. They don't install solar and they fight 3


### energy efficiency as I said. They're nowhere 4


### near achieving their own energy efficiency goals. 5


### They're way behind. 6


### I am hoping that the rules that you all 7


### make will be a nudge that will seriously get them 8


### moving in the right direction. 9


### I think you heard in earlier testimony 10


### that said that the integrative resource plan for 11


### Dominion shows them growing their carbon by 37 12


### percent over the next 15 years. That's totally 13


### the wrong direction to be headed. 14


### So I envision a day when we no longer 15


### blow up mountains and contaminate the waters in 16


### Appalachia, to mine coal for burning in power 17


### plants. I see a day when southwest Virginia is a 18


### manufacturing area for the components that go 19


### into wind turbines. We need to diversify that 20


### economy, not keep it the way it has been. And 21


### there was a young man here from a coal community 22

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### earlier that talked about that. 1


### And I hope we can stop

-- we can't give 2


### natural gas a buy on all this either. We need to 3


### look at what the extraction of natural gas is and 4



### what the

-- I know you all are worried about CO2

. 5


### But we have a methane problem, leakage, when we 6


### talk about fracking. And we're wasting our most 7


### precious and the absolute most necessary recourse 8



### that we have with

-- resource that we have, with 9


### water through fracking, and risking our water 10



### resources. 11


### I don't understand how that makes any 12



### sense . We need to grow clean jobs. They're more 13


### important than the existing jobs and the existing 14


### money that's behind pushing back on the 15


### regulations that you all are trying to write. 16


### And I really appreciate the work that you're 17


### doing. I commend you for it. Good luck with 18


### this. I know this is tough. 19


### There was a good article in The Post this 20


### week about the challenges you all are up against. 21


### So, thank you very much. 22

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### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Do we have 1


### questions? 2


### (No response.) 3


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank yo u. So Sarah

-- 4



### MS. BUCCI: Bucci. 5


### MS. ROSENBERG: Bucci. I'm sorry. 6


### MS. BUCCI: It's like Gucci, it's just

-- 7


### MS. ROSENBERG: Like Gucci. Yes, it's 8


### spelled like Gucci. And Mark Sheridan. 9



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: As the speakers are 10


### getting settled, ju st say thank you to all the 11


### speakers who have spoken and those who will be 12


### speaking for making the effort to come out today 13


### and bring us your views. And whether you're from 14


### nearby in Vienna, or far away in California. 15


### MS. BUCCI: So my name is Sarah Bucci

. 16


### And I'm the Director of Environment Virginia, 17



### which is a statewide citizen

- funded environmental 18


### advocacy group and we represent 25,000 citizen 19


### members and supporters across the Commonwealth, 20


### and I'm very happy to be here today speaking on 21



### behalf of both myself and all of our members. 22

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### And I'm sure you've heard a lot of Virginians 1


### here today as well. So I'm very proud of that 2



### fact. 3


### And our mission is really about 4


### protecting and preserving special places that 5


### Virginians care about and core environmental 6



### v alues and one of those values is taking action 7


### to address climate change. 8


### I'm here speaking on behalf of our 9


### members in Virginia because we are concerned 10


### about the impacts of climate change in Virginia, 11


### and they are hitting close to home. Extreme 12



### storms w reak havoc on public safety and 13



### infrastructure. And in fact our research has 14


### found that in recent years nine out of ten 15


### Virginians live in a city or county that has had 16


### a federally declared weather

- related disaster. 17


### And our coastlines are one of, you know , 18



### the most vulnerable to the risks of sea level 19


### rise from climate change. 20


### And the Intergovernmental Panel on 21


### Climate Change confirms that the frequency and 22

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### severity of extreme weather events would continue 1


### to increase unless we dramatically cut the carbon 2


### pollution that is fueling climate change. 3


### The largest single source of carbon 4


### pollution comes from America's power plants. And 5


### currently those power plants are able to spew an 6


### unrestricted amount of carbon pollution into the 7


### atmosphere. 8


### This past summer President Obama 9



### announced his Climate Action Plan and a 10


### cornerstone of that plan is these standards, 11


### directing the Environmental Protection Agency to 12


### set limits on the carbon pollution from both new 13


### and existing power plants. And we're here today 14



### in full support of those efforts, and of the 15


### proposed rule that was announced by the 16


### administrator this past fall. 17


### We know that there is a better way than 18


### dirty polluting power plants. We can harness the 19


### power from the wind and the sun. We can build 20



### smarter and more efficiently and slash our 21


### dependence on the dirtiest sources of energy from 22

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### fossil fuels like coal and natural gas, and oil. 1


### And these proposed standards are 2


### definitely a step in the right direction. 3


### Virginians and Americans support taking action 4



### an d support the EPA taking action. You know, 5


### already Americans have submitted 4 million 6


### comments in support of EPA rules to limit carbon 7


### pollution from power plants, and over 130,000 of 8


### those come from Virginians. And as the President 9


### has said, we really h ave a moral obligation to 10


### future generations to tackle the threat of 11


### climate change , n ot just for ourselves, but for 12



### those who will come after us. 13


### So on behalf of Environment Virginia I 14


### urge the EPA to finalize these proposed 15


### standards, to limit carbon pol lution from new 16


### power plants. The Environmental Protection 17


### Agency and the Clean Air Act have a really strong 18


### track record of success when it comes to cutting 19


### pollution from power plants, when we look at 20


### standards to reduce mercury and air toxics and 21



### soot pollution. And so I see this as a 22

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### commonsense step and continuing down that road. 1


### And it's necessary in order to protect 2


### future generations from the worst impacts of 3


### climate change. Thank you. 4


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Questions? 5


### (No response.) 6



### MS. ROSENBERG: Go ahead. 7


### MR. SHERIDAN: All right. My name is 8


### Mark Sheridan and I'm here to express support for 9


### the Environmental Protection Agency's proposal to 10


### set limits on carbon pollution from power plants. 11


### I'm here as an intern at League of 12



### Conservati on Voters, a student at Dartmouth 13


### College, but most importantly as a representative 14


### of today's youth. 15


### We are already experiencing the effects 16


### of a warming climate caused by human activities. 17


### And if we don't take action my generation will 18



### have to deal wi th even more extreme impacts. My 19


### generation understands the risks. Recent polling 20


### shows that over 80 percent of individuals under 21


### the age of 35 support the President's Climate 22

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### Action Plan, which includes the EPA's limits on 1


### carbon pollution from power pl ants as a main 2


### pillar. 3


### It is critical that we take aggressive 4


### action on climate change today in order to avoid 5


### more devastating impacts i n the future. 6


### Despite repeated warnings from a strong 7


### consensus of scientists over the past several 8


### decades, congres s has failed to take action. 9


### This failure to act is caused by members of 10


### congress who are more concerned about protecting 11


### the profits of polluters than protecting the 12



### health of communities and the environment. 13


### Among members of congress in office today 14



### who obstruct efforts to address climate change, 15


### many of them are over the age of 60 or 70. They 16



### will not have to live with the most extreme 17


### impacts of climate change. But my generation 18


### will. Thankfully the EPA has proposed to take 19


### action on climate change. 20


### The EPA's plan is a sensible step in 21


### reducing carbon pollution from our Nation's 22

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### largest source of carbon emissions. As it 1


### currently stands, power plants, which account for 2


### 40 percent of U.S. carbon emissions , are allowed 3


### to emit carbon pollution for f ree. The EPA's 4


### plan changes this and puts our country on a path 5



### to a more livable future. 6


### The opponents of this plan will try to 7


### say that now is not the right time for limits on 8


### carbon pollution, but the status quo is not an 9


### option. Continuing to dump ca rbon pollution into 10


### the atmosphere with no limits will lead to 11



### climate disaster. 12


### In the interest of my generation and 13


### future generations we must act now to address 14


### climate change. The EPA's plan to reduce carbon 15


### pollution from power plants is a bold ste p in 16


### addressing climate change, and I am proud to 17


### support it, along with the overwhelming majority 18


### of people my age. Thank you. 19


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Questions? 20



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Thank you. 21



### MS. ROSENBERG: Is Michelle Passerelli in 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### the room? 1



### ( No response.) 2


### MS. ROSENBERG: No. Okay. 3


### All right. Sarah Hagan and Elizabeth 4


### Outzs. Okay, Sarah, do you want to start? 5



### M S. HAGAN: Hi, there. My name is Sarah 6


### Hagan. That's Sarah with an H, H

- A

- G

- A

- N. 7


### I'm an organizer with the Virginia 8


### Chapter of the Sierra Club, but I'm also a 9


### paddler, hiker, gardener, amateur bird watcher, 10


### and aspiring naturalist. 11


### I live in Fredericksburg, Virginia on the 12


### fall line of the Rappahannock River, the longest 13



### free

- flowing river on the east coast. As rivers 14


### go, it's a relatively healthy one. But every day 15


### I see the effects of climate related disruption 16


### in my watershed. 17


### Carbon pollution accounts for 80 percent 18


### of greenhouse gas emissions in the U.S. Forty 19


### percent of that comes from power plants. 20


### Greenhouse gasses h ave numerous effects, but I 21



### want to talk about rainfall and storm water 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### runoff today. 1


### According to the EPA we've seen a five 2


### percent increase in the amount of precipitation 3


### in the United States in the last century. And in 4


### recent years much of our precipit ation is coming 5


### from intense single

- day storms, and greenhouse 6


### gasses are a major contributor to these changing 7


### patterns in rainfall. 8


### With more land being developed, which 9


### leads to impervious surface area and more water 10


### than ever, the effects of climate di sruption on 11


### the Rappahannock River watershed are becoming 12


### more and more apparent. 13


### The Rappahannock frequently looks like 14


### chocolate milk due to high sediment loads in the 15


### water. Dirt is picked up by storm water as it 16



### runs over land and is carried into ou r streams 17


### and creeks. During heavy rains , water travels at 18


### a high velocity through streambeds unaccustomed 19



### to the amount of water. The water cuts and 20


### gouges its way down stream destabilizing the 21


### stream bank loosening more sediment in the 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### process. 1



### As th e water slows , the sediment settles 2



### to the bottom of the stream or riverbed. Over 3



### time , we humans begin to take notice. 4


### In the last five years I have seen the 5


### shape of my river change as the sediment loads 6


### have increased, shifted, and settled. I have 7



### w atched as a portion of river narrowed, 8


### channelized and adapted to this new threat. I 9


### have seen stream banks become compromised due to 10


### the increased amount of storm water they have to 11



### handle. And in turn I have seen the natural 12


### ecosystems failing. Grasse s can't grow in dirty 13


### water where there is no sunlight. Fish lack 14


### habitat and food when grasses die. And in turn, 15


### water quality becomes impaired. 16



### An increase in storm water runoff also 17


### means an increase in the amount of chemicals, 18


### toxins, and excess nutr ients carried in the 19


### water. High levels of nitrogen phosphorous 20


### plague the Rappahannock. When it rains in the 21


### upper watershed , these nutrients are washed from 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### the fields and yards into the river. Once they 1



### make it to the lower basin , these plant boostin g 2


### nutrients from fields and laws encourage growth 3


### in the water in the form of algae blooms. 4


### When algae dies and decomposes it sucks 5


### the oxygen out of the water creating dead zones. 6


### There is little to no oxygen in a dead zone so 7


### nothing can live there , n o oysters, fish or 8



### crabs. 9


### This affects the water quality and it 10


### affects the lives of the watermen who depend on 11



### the river for their livelihood. 12



### The dead z one in the Rappahannock is 13


### seven times larger than any of the other dead 14


### zones in Virginia's other rivers combined. 15



### I ask the EPA to limit the amount of 16


### carbon emissions from new power plants built in 17


### the United States. Power plants are the leading 18


### contributor of the number one greenhouse gas in 19


### the country, carbon dioxide. With fewer carbon 20



### emissio ns we'll see fewer of the extreme weather 21


### events that contribute to the problems of storm 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### water runoff in the Rappahannock River watershed. 1



### The time to act is now. So let's not 2


### wait until it's too late. Thank you. 3


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. 4



### MR. KETCHA N

- COLWILL: Thank you. 5


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Questions? 6



### (No r esponse.) 7


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. 8



### MS. OUZTS: Hi. Thanks for the 9


### opportunity to speak to you today. My name is 10



### Elizabeth Ouzts. 11


### MS. ROSENBERG: Ouzts, sorry. 12



### MS. OUZTS: O

- U

- Z

- T

- S. That's okay. 13



### It's a common mistake. 14



### And I am the Director of Environment 15


### North Carolina, here from Raleigh, North 16



### Carolina. 17



### We are a statewide citizen based 18


### environmental advocacy group with thousands of 19


### members from Asheville to Wilmington. 20



### When it comes t o global warming , North 21



### Carolina has a lot at stake. Sea levels are 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### rising on our coasts three times more quickly 1


### than they are across the globe. The Outer Banks 2



### and the rest of our B arrier I slands are some of 3


### our most prized landscapes. But without str ong 4


### action to cut carbon pollution and stem the worst 5


### effects of global warming, much of these islands 6



### will be under water. 7


### Already public officials are struggling 8


### with difficult choices about how to protect 9


### quality of life for those on the coast in the 10



### fa ce of flooded homes and highways which are, you 11


### know, certainly in part due to rising seas and 12


### increased frequency and intensity of storms. 13


### It's not just our coastal communities at 14



### risk. In 2012 , North Carolina experienced a 15



### total of 40 broken heat reco rds, 13 broken 16


### precipitation records and 19 large wildfires all 17


### across the state. High smog days could double in 18


### cities like Raleigh and Asheville in a warming 19


### world threatening children, the elderly, those 20


### with asthma and even normal healthy adults. 21



### Wh ile the consequences of not addressing 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### the most profound environmental crisis of our day 1


### are tremendous for our state, so too are the 2


### benefits of cutting carbon pollution and 3


### transitioning to clean renewable energy. 4


### We are already poised as leaders in th e 5


### clean energy future. North Carolina was second 6


### only to California last year in new solar power 7


### added. And across the state more than 18,000 8


### work in a range of clean energy jobs, which is up 9


### more than 20 percent from the previous year. 10


### And we have the p otential to add even 11


### more. North Carolina has more potential for 12


### offshore wind than any other state on the 13



### Atlantic coast. 14



### Coal

- fired power plants, as you know, are 15


### the single largest source of carbon pollution and 16



### North Carolina has some of the dirties t in the 17


### country. And so we urge you to craft the 18


### strongest possible rule to limit carbon pollution 19


### from any new plants built in this country. And 20


### we look forward to rules to clean up carbon 21


### pollution from our existing coal plants as well. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### Finally, I wan t to say that in the wake 1


### of a massive spill in North Carolina from a toxic 2


### coal ash pond with enough ash and water to fill 3


### 40 Olympic swimming pools, we are reminded that 4


### coal power doesn't just fuel global warming. 5


### Indeed it poses multiple threats to ou r 6


### environment and our public safety. 7


### And so we urge the Obama Administration 8


### to not only move forward with these rules and 9


### with rules to curb pollution from new power 10


### plants, but to lead the charge to a transition to 11



### a clean fossil

- fuel

- free energy futur e. 12


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Do you have 13


### questions? 14


### (No response.) 15



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Thanks for making 16


### the trip. 17


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. 18



### Sarah Frost and Madison

-- I can't read 19



### this. Mathiase w? 20



### Sarah? 21


### MS. FROST: Yes, hi. Thanks so much for 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### havi ng us. 1



### I'm Sarah Frost. I'm an Assistant 2



### National Field Director with Environment America. 3



### We are a federation of 29 state

- based groups like 4



### Environment North Carolina and Environment 5


### Virginia, working for environmental solutions. 6


### So I see myself as a pr oduct of the 7


### environmental education movement. I grew up 8


### reducing, reusing, and recycling, learning about 9


### the Rain Forrest, celebrating Earth Day, and I 10


### also grew up, like many Americans, believing that 11


### as a country we like to do the right thing even 12



### when it's hard or inconvenient. 13


### It's so easy, though, in this day and 14


### age, to forget that we are inherently part of the 15


### natural matrix; that when we build and design 16


### fuel and dispose of the trappings of modern 17


### American life, we too often let the bottom line 18



### an d the status quo dictate our choices instead of 19


### what is right. 20


### The extreme weather that we're starting 21


### to experience from droughts and wildfires, storms 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### and floods, fueled by global climate change, the 1


### weather that science is telling us will only get 2



### worse , it prompts us to remember that ultimately 3


### there is no way to escape the consequences of our 4



### actions. 5


### And that's why as I stood on the Capitol 6


### lawn on January 21st of last year, I was thrilled 7



### to hear our President make a commitment to act on 8


### climate, not only four ourselves but for all 9


### prosperity. 10


### In order to meet our highest potential as 11


### a nation, to keep our water, our land, and our 12


### air clean, and our communities safe from harm, we 13


### need to bypass further development of fossil 14


### fuels like coal, oil and ga s, and head straight 15


### towards the clean, green, renewable energy future 16


### that so many Americans support. 17


### And we know there is enough sun and wind 18


### to power this country many times over; that the 19


### energy we produce from these sources has grown 20


### tremendously ov er the past few years, and that 21


### we've really barely scratched the surface on its 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### potential. 1


### Because we can meet our energy needs by 2


### tapping the power of clean renewable s and by 3


### reducing the tremendous amount of energy that we 4


### waste, dirty energy makes no s ense. In the 21st 5


### Century keeping the lights on shouldn't poison 6



### our environment and our health and it doesn't 7



### have to. 8


### So the President is now looking to make 9


### good on his vision of a greener America through 10


### his Climate Action Plan, which lays out 11



### unprece dented action to build the foundation for 12


### a clean energy economy, tackle the issue of 13


### climate change and protect our environment. 14


### I support limiting the damage that can be 15


### done by coal

- fired power plants by capping their 16



### carbon emissions. It's a critical first step in 17


### preventing catastrophic impacts from climate 18


### change and it's the right thing to do. Thank 19



### you. 20


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. 21



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Thank you. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### MS. MATHIASEN: My name is Madison 1



### Mathiasen and I am intern with Environment 2



### Americ a. 3


### MS. ROSENBERG: It's an N. Okay. 4



### MS. MATHIASEN: The one

- year anniversary 5


### of the super storm that tore apart my New Jersey 6


### hometown recently passed. Hurricane Sandy 7


### devastated homes and businesses around my town 8


### and all over the state. Power outag es left 9


### people cold and vulnerable and the sea that rose 10



### and covered shore towns left destruction in its 11


### path as well as more than 100 people dead. 12


### The super storm left billions of dollars ' 13


### worth of damage rivaling even Hurricane Katrina. 14



### These storms are the planet's attempt to send us 15


### a message. They will not stop. 16


### As you've seen, even this winter, 17


### unprecedented snowfall in southern states has 18


### been leaving parts of the country completely 19


### disabled. The weather patterns are going to 20


### continue to get more and more extreme and this is 21


### greatly a result of global warming. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate 1


### Change has confirmed that the frequency and 2


### severity of extreme weather events like these 3


### will continue to increase unless we dramatically 4



### cut the ca rbon pollution fueling global warming. 5


### Environment America's research and policy 6


### centers report America's dirtiest power plants, 7


### shows that power plants in America are the single 8


### largest source of carbon pollution, and that only 9


### a handful of the dirtiest p lants make up a huge 10


### portion of our emissions. 11


### For example, the 50 dirtiest U.S. plants 12



### emit more carbon than all but six other 13


### countries. This is absurd. Why in America do we 14


### feel so entitled to pollute the air that we as a 15


### global society depend on to s urvive and prosper? 16


### I have already made the decision that 17


### this planet is not a place to raise a child. 18


### Because of all the pollution, environmental 19


### degradation and health risks resulting from poor 20


### regulation and corrupt loopholes and laws, my 21


### personal opp ortunity to start a family has been 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### stolen from me. 1


### I feel betrayed by the leaders of my 2


### country. It's not right that this planet has 3


### been so destroyed from pollution and dirty energy 4


### initiatives that I now fear for my safety in the 5


### coming years. I feel sadness for the future of 6



### our nation and for the children that will have to 7


### deal with the repercussions of climate change 8


### that we were too busy contributing to, to fix. 9


### I feel hopeless and powerless, as if no 10


### one is listening to the pleas of the people. 11


### Today is an opportunity to change that. We are 12


### joined here today to urge you to stop the carbon 13


### pollution that is so contributing to global 14


### warming. Americans are demanding action. 15


### We have already submitted 4 million 16


### comments in support of limiting car bon pollution 17


### from power plants. Hundreds of elected 18


### officials, business leaders, and organizations 19


### have voiced their support in reigning in the 20


### biggest polluters. 21


### We know there is a better way than dirty 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### power plants. Surveys from across the country 1



### s how that Americans are aware of the impacts and 2


### effects of global warming, and that we are ready 3


### and willing to make the switch to clean energy. 4


### I and my friends are doing the things 5


### that we can to cut our impact on the planet, 6


### driving less, using efficien t light bulbs, 7


### limiting our meat intake, and taking time out of 8


### our days to urge leaders like you to act. But if 9


### we're going to tackle the problem, we need a 10



### n ational commitment to cutting carbon pollution. 11


### We're relying on you to lead the way to help 12



### tr ansition us to a cleaner future. 13


### You have the power to take the necessary 14


### actions to cut pollution from the largest sources 15


### and make the biggest dent in the problem. Please 16


### act quickly to protect our lives in the future. 17


### The opposition from power compani es and the coal 18


### industry who profit from pollution, along with 19


### their allies in congress are ready to fight us 20


### with their pockets full of dirty money that they 21


### earn from promoting pollution. That's why it's 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### absolutely critical that the state leaders join 1



### u s in supporting President Obama's plan to tackle 2


### global warming by limiting carbon pollution from 3


### power plants. 4


### While global warming's impacts will be 5


### felt by future generations, these massive 6


### hurricanes, thick smog clouds, and acid rain are 7


### effecting the wellbeing of our people right now. 8


### We can't ignore the message that these events are 9


### sending us. Failure to act is not just betrayal 10


### to future generations, but it is a sign of pure 11


### ignorance and duplicity. 12



### Environment America calls on state 13


### leaders to jo in us in supporting limits on power 14


### plants, carbon solutions, and to not back down 15


### against wealthy opposition tempting you with 16


### promises of money. 17


### Further, we urge the EPA to move forward 18


### to finalize these carbon pollution standards for 19


### new power plants so that no new plants will be 20


### allowed to dump unlimited amounts of dangerous 21


### carbon pollution into the air. Without these 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### regulations , we're destined to continue rushing 1



### full force towards collapse. Not just as a 2


### country but as an entire global populatio n. 3


### Thank you. 4


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. 5


### Okay. Harvey Fernbach and Kristen Cook. 6



### MR. FERNBACH: Good afternoon. I'm 7


### Harvey Fernbach

-- 8


### MS. ROSENBERG: You probably need to 9


### speak up or more directly into the microphone, 10


### maybe. 11



### MR. FERNBACH: I'm Harve y Fernbach. I'm 12


### a physician. Glad to be here. I've been an 13


### admirer of the EPA for many, many years. We have 14


### something in common. I was in the medical school 15


### class of 1970 and you guys started practicing the 16



### environment al health also in 1970. 17


### As you kn ow , your patients, the American 18


### environment and climate, is getting sicker and 19


### sicker. The signs and symptoms are very clear. 20


### Global fever, cold chills, hot and dehydrating 21


### periods, polluted water and soil. The 22

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### atmospheric carbon now is sky high, and we have 1


### actually a pandemic all over the world. 2


### As physicians we recommend treatments to 3


### patients. Sometimes they don't like the 4


### treatment, but we have to do what we think is 5



### best. We sometimes

-- we a lot of times 6


### prescribe medicines that our pharmaceutic al 7


### represent, who I don't see any more, don't like. 8


### We obviously have to tell people to cut down on 9


### their sugar, even though the confectionary 10


### industry would be appalled. 11


### Same thing with smoking. We clearly 12


### avoid what the tobacco industry says and tell the 13


### people what they want. Matter of fact, the 14


### tobacco industry, I'm around long enough to know, 15


### when they would lie to congress and the federal 16


### agencies about the dangers of smoking. You don't 17


### see smoking allowed signs anyplace anymore. And 18



### we take it for granted. You wouldn't see Jay 19


### Leno smoking a cigarette as opposed to Edward R. 20



### Murrow many years ago. 21


### But, there is solid environmental 22

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### evidence now on the effect of carbon and how much 1


### on climate change. And Dr. EPA, please prescribe 2


### that power plan ts cut down all their smoking. We 3


### really can't tolerate it anymore. It's that 4



### critical. 5


### As an individual, we cannot do much. We 6


### cannot solve the problem. We're really very 7


### helpless. We cannot hide. We cannot run. We 8



### cannot close the windows and wa tch it on TV. 9


### Whether you're in the one percent, like the 10


### members of the panel here, or the 99 percent, 11


### whether we live on Park Avenue or in the park, we 12


### are all in this together. 13


### Dr. EPA, we are in a desperate need for 14


### aggressive treatment if we are to h ave any chance 15


### to avoid a global hospice. 16


### This may seem like I'm Chicken Little 17


### crying, the sky is falling. But I have read and 18



### learned a lot and I am informed and not a 19


### hysterical science

- based Chicken Little. For 20


### surely the sky is indeed falling righ t now. 21


### Thank you very much. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. 1



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Thank you. 2


### MS. COOK: Hi. My name is Kristin Cook 3



### and I'm a mother of three and environmental 4



### activist. 5


### Let me start by saying that I am 6


### profoundly sad that we are even disc ussing carbon 7


### pollution standards for future coal plants or 8


### power plants, because I can't believe we're 9


### planning for a future with more coal

- fired power 10


### plants. When will we learn? 11


### Well for now, forget new standards for 12


### emissions and allow me to remind yo u the most 13


### recent environmental accidents, read disasters, 14



### from these coal

- fire d power plants, because I 15



### think that has to be taken into account. 16


### October 31st of last year, an estimated 1 17



### billion liters of waste water leaked out of a 18


### containment pit at the old Obed Mountain Coal 19


### Mine some 30 kilometers east of Hinton, Canada. 20


### Mercury levels nine times higher than normal , 21



### l evels of cancer

- causing polycyclic

-- I can't 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### pronounce it , s orry
-- h ydrocarbons four times 1



### t he allowed standard for Canadian drinking water. 2


### Those are the kinds of disturbing test 3


### results that Dr. James Talbot, Alberta's Chief 4


### Medical Officer of Health is seeing as he 5


### monitors a huge coal mine wastewater currently 6


### oozing down the Athabasca River. Sorry. Not 7



### Canadian. 8


### Again, when will we learn ? 9


### January, of course, 9th of this year, 10


### chemical spill ruins water supplies, sparks a 11


### state emergency in West Virginia. Thirty 12



### thousand Charlesto w n residents were under water 13



### restrictions when a chemical used to clean coal 14



### leaked into the Elk Ri ver, into their water 15


### supply. Residents couldn't shower, cook with it, 16



### and had to drink bottled water. When will we 17



### learn? 18


### February 5th, oh my gosh, that was 19


### yesterday. An estimated 50,000 to 82,000 tons of 20


### coal ash and up to 27 million gallons of water 21


### were released this last Sunday, I'm sorry, into 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### the Dan River in Northern North Carolina via 1


### broken pipe underneath a waste containment pond 2


### according to Duke Energy Corp. When will we ever 3



### learn? 4


### Okay. Well, I'll get back to making a 5


### case for strong st andards for our future power 6


### plants. But I feel that I really don't need to. 7


### It's all over your own website. It's nothing

-- 8


### I cannot provide any information that I didn't 9


### get from you. 10


### I'm sorry. It's all over your website, 11


### the dangers of carbon emiss ions, the health risks 12


### not only directed to human health, but to the 13


### heating up of our planet. Mercury poisoning from 14


### U.S. power plants alone causes everything from 15


### heart attacks to asthma to inhibiting cognitive 16


### development in children. 17


### As told, coal c osts America 330 to 500 18


### billion per year. We need you to stay strong in 19


### your mission to drastically cut emissions from 20


### these pollution factories. What will be your 21


### legacy. Thank you. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Thanks. 1



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Thanks for coming. 2


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Paris Carr and 3


### Martha Ellen Wingfield. 4


### Okay. Paris Carr? 5


### MS. CARR: Hi. My name is Paris Carr and 6


### I support the EPA's new regulation for carbon 7


### emissions on new power plants as well as current 8


### power plants. 9


### And I'd just li ke to say that as a Type

- 1 10


### diabetic since January of 1993 , I learned that 11


### many doctors

-- or no doctors

-- actually, know 12


### what quite causes diabetes. 13


### However, it came to my attention after 14



### about ten years of having diabetes that 15


### environmental factors pla y a major role in 16


### potential causes for Type

- 1 diabetes. 17


### And they also

-- the environment also 18


### really impacts your endocrine system, which 19


### pretty much controls your entire body. When the 20


### weather is too warm it is extremely difficult for 21



### me to maintain an d regulate my blood sugar. And 22

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### this is because I tend to drink a lot more water 1


### and my blood sugar drops low. 2


### So I always have to prepare for 3


### unseasonably warm weather, and it is quite 4


### annoying and troublesome. So, again, I'd just 5



### like to reiterate that the environment has 6


### tremendous impact among us diabetics, Type

- 1 and 7



### Type

- 2. Thank you. 8


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Do you have 9


### questions? 10


### (No response.) 11



### MS. WINGFIELD: Hi. I am Martha Ellen 12


### Wingfield, W

- I

- N

- G

- F

- I

- E

- L

- D. I am here as a 13


### private citize n, also as a lover of mountains. 14


### This particular picture is of the Sierra Nevada 15


### Mountains that I took while hiking through there 16


### the summer before last with my husband. I love 17


### the mountains. As John Muir said, "Going to the 18


### mountains is to go home." 19



### Th e sense of peacefulness, the connection 20


### to the inexplicable, that is what I find in 21


### nature. It's kind of my church. I've hiked the 22

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### remote Sierra's, some of the most pristine 1



### mountains that we still have left in the United 2


### States. The rugged San Jacinto of Southern 3


### California, the pristine Three Sisters of Oregon, 4



### and of course the ancient , ancient Appalachians. 5



### While these beautiful mountains all have 6


### significant ecological and geological 7


### differences, they do all have the same threat of 8


### climate change that is facing them. 9



### From the east coast

-- or sorry. From 10


### the west coast, with fires threatening the 11


### Pacific Crest Trail and the John Muir Trail, to 12


### species shifting on the east coast with higher 13


### temperatures making hardwood old

- growth trees 14



### unable to su rvive. There's a myriad number of 15


### effects that are facing the mountains. 16


### But I'm not just a backpacker. 17


### Unfortunately no one will pay me to do that. 18


### Clearly I'm also an environmentalist. But I'm 19


### also a high school science teacher. And most 20


### recently I' ve become a wife. And of course the 21


### first question that everybody asks you after you 22

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### get married is, when are you going to start 1


### having babies. Gets a little annoying. 2


### And honestly, I don't know what to say. 3


### I want to say I'm excited about creating li fe 4


### with the person that I love most. But knowing 5


### what we all know about climate change and what's 6


### happening to our planet because of us, I'm scared 7


### to bring a child into this world. While it's a 8


### beautiful world in so many ways, as we've heard 9


### today we're facing seemingly insurmountable 10


### problems. 11


### So that's why I applaud you all on 12


### proposing these standards. Please don't let the 13


### big industry bully you with threats of lost jobs. 14


### We are a very progressive , imaginative , smart 15


### society and we can overcome th at. So that is not 16


### a good argument. We need to stop listening to 17


### that threat of joblessness. 18


### So, I do urge you to adopt the most 19


### stringent standards possible, for both coal and 20


### natural gas power plants. Even though natural 21


### gas has been touted as clean, I think we all know 22

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### that it is very dirty. Reports have said that it 1


### is possibly even dirtier than coal when you look 2


### at the extraction all the way to the energy 3


### generation. 4


### So, please, so that I'm not scared to 5


### have kids, so that other young women like m e see 6


### hope for the future, please continue to set 7


### progressive standards. I do applaud what you've 8


### done and let's stop making it easy for dirty 9


### energy to thrive. Thank you. 10


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. 11


### James Conway and Mallon Moench. 12



### MR. CONWAY: I wasn't really prepared to 13


### speak today. 14


### MS. ROSENBERG: Oh, okay. 15


### MR. CONWAY: So I just want to listen. 16


### MS. ROSENBERG: All right. 17


### MR. CONWAY: I mean basically

-- 18


### MS. ROSENBERG: Are you James? 19



### MR. CONWAY: Yes. 20


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Do we have another 21



### -- okay. Go ahead. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### So, Mallen? 1



### MR. MOENCH: Mallen. 2



### MS. ROSENBERG: Mallen. 3


### MR. MOENCH: My name is Mallen Moench. I 4


### speak on behalf of Utah Physicians

-- 5


### MS. ROSENBERG: Could you spell your last 6


### name just to make sure the reporter gets it 7


### right? 8



### MR. MOE NCH: Oh, M

- O

- E

- N

- C

- H. 9


### MS. ROSENBERG: Moench. Okay. 10


### MR. MOENCH: I speak on behalf of Utah 11


### Physicians for a Healthy Environment, a group of 12


### nearly 300 doctors that live in Utah. 13


### Science shows that air pollution causes 14


### or exacerbates many of the illness es that its 15


### members treat. Therefore, they feel their 16


### expertise should inform the debate over how 17


### society should approach air pollution. 18


### Question : W ho cares about air pollution? 19



### Answer : E veryone who understands its 20



### health effects. 21


### Most of Utah's people live in the north, 22

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### along the Wasatch Front. Severe air pollution 1


### has held the towns along the front under siege 2



### for much of this winter. 3


### Two weeks ago there was a rally of 5,000 4


### people on the steps of the State Capitol 5


### demanding that the legislature add ress the public 6


### health crisis that this pollution is causing. 7


### A poll taken by the Salt Lake Tribune 8


### shows that by a three to one margin Utah 9


### residents want tighter regulation of industrial 10


### polluters. Regarding the long

- term drought 11


### gripping the western st ates, Lane Ingram, a 12


### professor of Earth Science at UC Berkley says we 13


### are on track for having the worst drought in 500 14



### years. 15


### Our written statement explains why this 16


### climate disruption is traceable to a warming of 17


### the Arctic greater than anything seen si nce 18


### before the last ice age. This is traceable to 19



### the sudden massive increase in the concentration 20


### of greenhouse gasses in the Earth's atmosphere. 21


### The resulting disruption of the climate 22

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### of the American West is turning California, which 1



### once served as the Nation's grapevine, orchard, 2


### and garden, into a dust bowl before our eyes. 3



### Health y ecosystems are the foundation of life and 4


### human welfare. They produce fresh water, food, 5



### and moderate climates. 6



### The value of these services to the 7


### planet's inhabitants wa s recently estimated to be 8


### $33 trillion each year. By 2050, as much as a 9


### third of all land plants and animals will become 10


### extinct as a result of abrupt climate change. As 11


### ecosystems deteriorate, so will the public's 12


### health, which is inextricably tied to them. 13


### Climate change intensifies the heat and 14


### drought that have long plagued the west. These 15


### are some of the consequences. 16


### Forest fire pollution. The forest fire 17


### season is two and one half months longer than it 18


### was just 25 years ago. More frequent and more 19


### intense fires produce particulates that can be 20



### ten times more toxic than industrial or vehicular 21


### pollution. 22

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### Ozone. Alon g the Wasatch Front current 1


### ozone levels increase deaths by respiratory 2


### disease by about 25 percent from what they would 3



### otherwi se be. The chemical reactions that create 4


### ozone are driven by heat. A hotter climate 5


### increases ground

- level ozone. 6


### Particulate pollution. The range lands 7


### of the Great Basin are already water

- stressed

. 8



### A ccelerating global warming could turn them to 9



### dus t. Utah is downwind from Nevada. Nevada's 10


### soils contain millions of tons of erionite, a 11



### mineral similar to asbestos that causes the same 12


### type of lung disease. 13



### Southern Nevada soils are laced with a 14


### dozen different radioactive isotopes, the residue 15



### of nuc lear bomb tests conducted over a period of 16


### 40 years. If fragile native vegetation dies and 17


### Nevada becomes a dust bowl, the prevailing west 18



### winds will distribute these unanchored soils and 19


### their poisonous contaminates across most of the 20



### state of Utah. 21



### Me rcury, selenium, and other heavy metals 22

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### coming mostly from coal

- fired power plants, 1



### saturate the bed of the Great Salt Lake. Heat 2


### and drought caused by greenhouse gasses threaten 3


### to dry up the lake. If this happens west winds 4


### will pick up these neurotoxi ns and spread them 5



### across the Wasatch Front's airshed. 6



### Increased airborne neurotoxins from 7


### destroyed rangeland, increased forest fires, and 8


### exposed lake beds would increase respiratory 9


### disease, throat, and esophageal cancer, and 10


### cognitively impair a subs tantial percentage of 11


### the 40,000 fetuses that are conceived in Utah 12


### each year. 13



### The science is clear. O ver the long term , 14



### the American west is headed for intensified heat 15


### and drought sufficient to threaten both the 16


### viability of its ecosystems and the breath ability 17


### of its air. This phenomenon is the greatest 18


### single threat to the health and wellbeing of 19


### Utah's children. We recognize that this calamity 20


### will only be averted through quick and effective 21


### government action and international cooperation. 22

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### The new source emission standards that 1


### are proposed here by the EPA are a modest first 2


### step toward avoiding this calamity. 3


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. 4



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Question. 5



### Your statement about the Nevada soils has 6



### some references indicated in it. I n other words, 7


### is there further information available beyond 8


### what you've suggested? 9


### MR. MOENCH: Yes, I can provide some 10


### detailed data and studies that may address that 11


### issue if you would like. And I'll refer in more 12


### detail to this in my written statement

. 13


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. 14



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Thank you. 15


### So, are you James Conway? 16


### MR. GURNEY: My name is Donald Gurney, G

17



### U

- R

- N

- E

- Y. 18



### MS. ROSENBERG: 19



### MR. GURNEY: Okay. Hello. I live in 20


### Arlington, Virginia. I'm speaking on behalf of 21


### myself, but I'm also a member of the Sierra Club. 22

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### I'm testifying support of the proposed 1


### EPA standards on carbon pollution for the new 2


### power plants. By way of background, I'm a 3



### retired Air Force officer and a defense 4



### contractor. 5



### I'm also a Vietnam War and a Cold Wa r 6


### veteran. In all, I've spent over 45 years 7


### committed to defending the United States from 8


### foreign enemies. Now I'm concerned that the 9


### carbon pollution driven climate change threatens 10



### the n ational security of the United States and 11


### the future quality of li fe for my two daughters 12


### and for the next generation. 13


### I have over 40 years ' experience as an 14


### intelligence analyst, therefore , I find it quite 15


### important that the i ntelligence c ommunity's 16


### National Intelligence Council has identified 17


### climate change as a signif icant national security 18


### issue. In fact the National Intelligence Council 19


### approves several unclassified reports assessing 20


### the impact of climate change to various countries 21


### throughout the world. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### Here are a few of the judgments from 1



### these assessment s . By 2020, climate change will 2


### result in more water shortages, poor water 3


### quality, and more severe floods. These will 4


### likely result in higher unemployment, increased 5


### social tension, strains on infrastructure, and 6


### increased instability in key areas. 7


### By 203 0 , many countries are likely to 8


### face severe drought, deforestation, shifting 9


### agriculture patterns, mass migration, severe 10


### storms and coastal flooding. These problems are 11


### likely to increase threats to the global food 12


### production, as well as increase the risk o f 13


### instability, state failure and increased regional 14



### tensions. 15


### And then the coastal regions are 16


### increasingly vulnerable to flooding, storm surge 17



### and sea level rise. 18


### While these intelligence estimates focus 19


### on foreign countries, we're already seeing that 20


### some of these problems are developing here in the 21


### United States. Here in Virginia we are facing 22

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### the threat of sea level rise and coastal 1


### flooding. The Hampton Roads, Norfolk, and 2


### Virginia Beach area continues to experience the 3


### highest rates of sea level rise on the east 4


### coast. For the past several years this has meant 5


### local, state, and federal government 6


### organizations working with private citizens 7


### develop ing numerous plans and infrastructure 8


### projects to counteract these threats. 9


### Just this year Californi a is enduring a 10


### record drought. Last month Governor Brown 11


### declared a drought emergency and requested that 12


### Californians voluntarily cut their water 13


### consumption by 20 percent. Moreover in an 14


### unprecedented move the California Department of 15



### Water Resources s tated that it will not send any 16



### additional water from state reservoir resources 17


### system to local agencies this spring. 18


### According to news reports these measures 19


### will affect drinking water supplies for 25 20


### million Americans and irrigation for one million 21



### acres of farmland. 22

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### Closer to home, my family has owned a 1


### small farm in Northern Virginia since the 1840s. 2


### In the last 10 years, because of increasing 3


### drought and the severity of these droughts, as 4


### well as some pressure from the corn seed provider 5



### that we use , we've had to install an expensive 6


### irrigation system. This proved to be a major 7


### asset since it's preserved our crops from drought 8


### several times since we put it in. 9


### Severe weather is also disrupting life in 10


### the United States. Over the past few years in m y 11


### Arlington neighborhood, I've experienced more 12



### severe storms which have knocked down more trees 13


### and caused more prolonged power outages than I 14


### have seen in the past 30 years. 15


### In 2010, my sister's life in Sherwood, 16


### Wisconsin was disrupted by an all

- time record 17


### thunderstorm that dumped seven and a half inches 18


### of rain in just two hours on Shorewood. This 19


### totally overloaded the town's sewer system and 20


### resulted in water running four to five feet deep 21



### on the streets next to her house. The first 22

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### floor of my s ister's house was flooded, as were 1


### all the units in her condo development. Besides 2


### having to make expensive repairs to her home, it 3


### took two years to resolve the damage claims with 4


### the insurance companies. 5


### In conclusion, I firmly believe that 6


### strong carbo n pollution standards on the new 7


### power plants are an essential step in trying to 8


### slow and mitigate climate change. I also believe 9


### that strong carbon pollution standards are needed 10


### for existing power plants and other major sources 11


### of carbon pollution. Tha nk you , very much. 12


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Okay. I 13


### think maybe after this next panel we'll take a 14


### break. Okay. Thank you. 15


### Did you have any questions? 16



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: I would just like 17


### to ask if the doctor mentioned others who might 18



### want to sub mit his material, have the information 19


### they need to do that. 20



### MS. ROSENBERG: Can leave it here or at 21



### the desk in front. 22

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### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: In the future. 1



### MR. MOENCH: The EPA ( off microphone ). 2


### MS. ROSENBERG: Oh, great. 3


### MR. MOENCH: So I'll just fo llow those 4



### instructions. 5



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Thank you very 6



### much. 7


### MS. ROSENBERG: That's great. Thank you. 8


### Okay. Judy Koenick and Mark Shipley. 9


### MS. KOENICK: I've been copying this over 10


### so it's a little bit more legible so I can try to 11



### read it without all the errors in it. 12


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Do you want to go 13


### ahead? Are you

-- 14



### MS. KOENICK: Before I start it would be 15


### nice to know the next time you hold a hearing 16


### that you post signs outside all over the place 17


### telling us where it is and have people know where 18



### it is. 19


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. 20



### MS. KOENICK: And it would also be nice 21


### if your bathrooms were handicap ped accessible. 22

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### It is not. 1


### MS. ROSENBERG: Good point. Thank you. 2


### All right. Can you start by stating your name, 3


### please? Go ahead and start. 4


### MS. KOENICK: Okay. I tell people if you 5


### have money, I'll buy a hearing aid. 6


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. 7


### MS. KOENICK: My name is Judy Koenick. I 8


### live at 2714 Washington Avenue, Chevy Chase, 9


### Maryland, 20815. A week ago the conscious of 10


### this country died at a ge 94. While he was not 11


### the author, Woody Guthrie was, he made the song 12


### that challenged all America. Does anyone here 13


### know the name of the person or the name of the 14



### song? 15


### I noticed that Mr. Wayland has 16


### disappeared so he didn't have to give me the 17



### answe r and be embarrassed by not telling me. 18


### How long have we had the Clean Air Act? 19


### 1970, '77, 1994. Forty

- four years ago. How long 20


### have we had the Clean Water Act? 1972, amended 21


### in '77 and '87. Forty

- two years ago. Yet 22

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### neither EPA, Maryland, or Montgo mery County have 1


### shown any interest in enforcement. 2


### I have met with all three, including Bob 3


### Perciasepe when he was head of MDE. In fact he 4


### didn't comply with the PIA request so I hauled 5



### him into court. 6


### Now he has refused and ignored my request 7



### to meet with him at EPA. Martin O'Malley, 8


### Maryland Governor, who wants to be POTUS with all 9


### the perks, but allowed PEPCO to butcher thousands 10


### of trees in Montgomery County and Prince George's 11


### County by cutting out the heart and soul of the 12



### trees. 13



### As head of Ma ryland, when it rains he has 14


### discharged tens of thousands of gallons of mud, 15


### silt, and animal feces into Rock Creek, less than 16



### a mile from the D.C. line. 17



### Last summer after I raised the issue the 18


### County removed at least eight large dump truck 19


### loads of mud, silt, and feces from their sediment 20


### pond in Rock Creek Stream Valley Unit No. 1. 21


### O'Malley refused to empty the state pond 22

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### now for almost six years. So the mud, silt, 1


### feces, continue to flow into Rock Creek, the 2



### Potomac, and the b ay from the Meadowbrook 3



### Stables. 4


### When it is dry , he violates the Clean Air 5


### Act with the fine particulate matter, dust, 6


### permeating the air we breathe with it so dense 7


### you cannot see behind it. 8


### Maryland National Park and Planning 9


### Commission, a state chartered governmental agenc y 10


### for almost 30 years , has been told to water 11


### sufficiently to prevent the dust from becoming 12



### airborne and has refused to do so. 13


### EPA does nothing. Arrange a meeting with 14


### Bob Perciasepe and let's stop the environmental 15


### degradation before O'Malley becomes go vernor and 16


### decides that the environment is meaningless. 17


### Will this new regulation be effective? 18


### Only if it is enforced vigorously. I have little 19


### doubt that that will happen. As a result of my 20


### efforts to stop the degradation, state employees 21



### have tried to run me down, threatened to set fire 22

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### to my home, and then be promoted by the state, 1


### and have taken aim at me with their cars, along 2


### with Izaiah Leggett, County Executive, I have 3


### been harassed, threatened, injured, denied 4


### medical care, brutalized, and throw n in jail 5


### because of my efforts to stop the environment and 6


### try to get it to be a priority in Montgomery 7


### County, in Maryland, or in Federal Court. No one 8


### seems any interest in doing anything about it. 9


### Each time I go out of my house, I fear 10


### for my life. W ill I be arrested and thrown in 11


### jail again because I've exercised my right of 12


### free speech to document the pollution and see 13


### that it can be stopped? 14



### I have here

-- by the way, it was Pete 15


### Seeger who just died and the song was, "This Land 16



### is Your Land. Th is land is my land, from 17


### California to New York Island, from the Redwood 18


### Forest to the Gulf Stream waters, this land was 19


### made for you and me." 20


### And I have not seen one single 21


### governmental agency at all levels do anything to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### stop what I see on a daily basis in my 1


### neighborhood. 2


### I will have copies of this picture. This 3


### shows the mud, silt, animal feces, going in to 4


### Rock Creek. This shows the manure that they 5


### grind up. They're supposed to pick it all up. 6


### Sometimes they leave it on the ground for weeks 7



### at a time. Sometimes they pick it up. Sometimes 8


### they just go in with their tractors and grind it 9


### up so it flows into the creek. 10


### When it is dry, as I said, it becomes 11


### extremely dusty. This picture is cloudy because 12


### you can just barely see the woman with he r two 13


### kids trying to walk by the stables. 14


### This shows you another example. And 15


### another example. Now if anyone here wants to 16



### tell me this is not a violation of the Clean Air 17


### Act, then the Clean Air Act is a waste of time. 18



### Or the Clean Water. This is

-- 19


### MS. ROSENBERG: Can you wrap up, please? 20


### MS. KOENICK: I am. I've just got a few 21



### more. 22

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### This shows the two ponds. This one, by 1


### the way, should never have been built. And what 2


### happens is the manure goes into the pond, it 3


### fills up, it then goes into the next pond, and 4


### then goes into the creek. It has not been 5


### cleaned in six and a half years and O'Malley 6


### refuses to do anything about it. 7


### Trees butchered. The trees are supposed 8


### to protect the environment. They don't. I've 9


### already mentioned the song. I'v e already 10


### mentioned about Woody Guthrie and that, but I 11


### also pulled something, which I don't have here, 12


### off of your own website that says what you do. I 13



### don't see it. 14


### And if this will work, fine. I have no 15


### confidence in it. Unless someone will step up to 16


### the plate, say look, let's look at this issue, 17


### let's look at the video, let's look at the 18


### movies, and we will see that this stops. This is 19



### less than a mile from the D.C. line. 20


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Thank you for your 21



### comments. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### MS. KOENICK: Let me ask another 1


### question. Has anyone bothered to do a saline 2



### test on the water around here before and after 3


### the last ice storm, or the last month and a half 4


### of snow? Because they put the ice on

-- they put 5


### salt on the roads and where does it go? 6



### MS. ROSENBE RG: Right. 7



### MS. KOENICK: Into the water. EPA needs 8


### to look into that, seriously. 9


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Thank you. All 10


### right. 11



### MS. KOENICK: I still would like to meet 12


### with you all. 13


### MS. ROSENBERG: Mr. Shibley, do you want 14



### to

-- 15


### MR. SHIBLEY: good afte rnoon. I'm Mark 16


### Shibley. I am from Richmond, Virginia. I am 17


### here through a call from the National Wildlife 18


### Federation with the Sierra Club, and as a 19



### concerned citizen. 20


### Pollution is chemical warfare against the 21


### planet. Science has revealed that the dem ise of 22

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### dinosaurs and extinction of many life forms was 1


### due to a meteor, comet, or asteroid impact in the 2



### Yucatan Peninsula some sixty

- five and a half 3


### million years ago. There was enough debris 4


### thrust into the atmosphere to cause an ice age. 5



### Science h as al so shown that a volcanic 6


### eruption around 535 A.D. is in what is now El 7


### Salvador, caused a volcanic winter and the 8


### explanation for the Dark Ages. There was enough 9



### ash and acid dust to veil much of the Earth from 10



### Greenland to Antarctica. There was so much 11


### pollution that it dimmed the sun enough to cause 12


### unseasonable weather, famines and crop failures. 13


### The volcanic eruptions in Iceland in 2010 14


### halted air traffic for five days, and dropped ash 15


### thousands of miles away in the winds of the upper 16


### atmosphere. 17



### We k now that a single smokestack emits a 18


### minimal amount of pollutants compared to the 19


### astronomic impact or volcanic activity mentioned 20


### above. It is, however, the massive numbers of 21


### smokestacks that create the global problems. The 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### carcinogenic mix of pollutan ts from various 1


### industries can create a dangerous atmospheric 2


### soup. The various pollutants can combine in the 3


### atmosphere and a ffect unsuspecting people. 4


### There have been studies showing the 5


### increased incidence of cancers downwind of many 6


### manufacturing plan ts, the pollutants rise and are 7


### carried by wind currents. The amounts may be a 8


### few microns per million per smokestack, but we 9


### are constantly being exposed. 10


### We are seeing the demise of the Monarch 11


### Butterflies, their lives are more fragile than 12



### ours and the y can't fight or escape the poisons. 13


### They are an indicator of the problem. 14



### There also has been a noticeable 15


### reduction of song birds. They too are victims of 16


### a carbon pollution problem. Studies are showing 17


### an ever increasing incidence of asthma and 18



### can cers in our children. It is apparent to me 19



### that the weakest are the first to reveal the 20


### early stages of a serious problem. Ironically as 21


### was the Canary in the coalmine. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### We have to be astute and acknowledge the 1


### signs. Ignoring them won't make them go a way. A 2


### logical conclusion seems to be that pollutants 3



### from factories and coal

- fired power plants just 4


### upwind or those thousands of miles away are 5


### raining pollutants and impacting the environment 6


### causing problems around the world. 7


### It seems to me industry is unwilling

-- 8


### is unwittingly or wantonly inflicting chemical 9


### warfare on the plant life, animals, and people of 10


### the planet. The amounts may seem small, but when 11


### you look at the total picture all the factories 12


### and their combined output over time, it reve als a 13


### deadly situation on the horizon. Geologists 14


### learn from the deposits from cataclysms of the 15


### past and study their effects on the environment 16


### at a time in history

-- it a ffects on the 17


### environment at a time in history. 18


### They study the pollution in the 19



### st ratification of rocks and in soil samples, and 20



### determine how it will affect the environment of 21



### the future. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### At the current rates of pollution and 1


### chemicals released, we may not have a century 2


### before things are too polluted to survive. We in 3



### the United St ates claim to be world leaders, so 4


### let us be leaders and responsible stewards of 5


### this small, fragile, planet, and strive to make 6


### it a better place than we found it. 7


### The EPA should approach universities in 8


### the form of a competition with scholarships as a 9



### re ward to research and develop ways to clean up 10


### existing dirty plants. 11



### When I was at VCU I was a member of the 12


### Advertising Club and various universities got 13


### together to create ad campaigns. I don't see any 14


### reason why we can't take engineering schools and 15


### put them into the mix and have them research the 16


### problems. Industry says it costs too much. It's 17



### almost free ; a few dollars for scholarships or 18


### they'll do it for free. I know, I've been there. 19



### We have to start sometime and now would 20



### be the best time t o stop or at least put some 21


### limits on the carbon pollutants released into the 22

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### air by our power plants. This proposed 1


### regulation is only a drop in the bucket of what 2


### needs to be done. But it is a beginning. Thank 3



### you. 4


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Do you h ave a 5


### question? 6


### (No response.) 7


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. 8


### MS. KOENICK: As a two seat survivor, I'm 9


### tired of having to breathe this stuff. Two 10



### times. 11


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. All right. 12



### We will take a 10 minute break. We'll back about 13



### 2:40 if that's o kay. Does that work for you? 14



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Yes. 15


### (Recess from 2:30 p.m. until 2:40 p.m.) 16


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Well, I think both 17


### rooms are taking a break at the same time so we 18


### may have lost some of our audience. But we are 19


### ready to get started again, so is Ryan Kingston 20



### here? 21



### MR. KINGSTON: Yes. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### MS. ROSENBERG: Excellent. And Jeanie 1



### Gosche, Gosche? 2


### Okay. Well, go ahead and we'll

-- and 3


### for this round I'd like you to spell your name, 4


### please, for the recorder. 5


### MR. KINGSTON: Okay. 6



### MS. ROSENBE RG: Okay? All right. Go 7



### ahead. 8


### MR. KINGSTON: All right. My name is 9


### Ryan Kingston. My last name is spelled K

- I

- N

- G

10



### S

- T

- O

- N. 11


### All right. So if we do not take action 12


### on climate change, every dollar we have spent in 13


### environmental restoration and protec tion so far 14



### will have been wasted. 15


### Having grown up on Long Island Sound my 16


### family has seen significant improvements in water 17


### quality over the last 30 or so years. Where my 18


### grandparents were once told to stay out of the 19


### water, we now have public access a nd public space 20


### where people can go and enjoy the resource. It's 21


### really a great testament to all the work the 22

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### states and the Federal Government has done to 1


### protect and restore the Sound. 2


### I was actually lucky enough to have 3



### attended an out culture school i n Bridgeport 4


### Connecticut, spent a significant time out on the 5


### water, learned a lot. My first boat trip with 6


### the school happened during a summer camp in 7



### middle school. 8



### The boat cast some nets, trolled the 9


### Sound floor, and hauled up a basket full of 10



### wonder s. I was really fascinated by the variety 11


### of species of crabs and the ground fish and the 12



### shell fish. Our teacher even took time to show 13


### us a sample of water just swarming with algae and 14


### plankton. 15


### I really became fascinated by the 16


### diversity of life in what was practically my 17


### backyard. I'm certain that if it weren't for 18


### this experience I wouldn't be here in front of 19


### you right now. Probably wouldn't even be in this 20



### field. 21


### It's really my hope that future 22

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### generations, my kids and grandkids, will have 1



### the se same experiences so that they can continue 2


### to explore and develop a fascination for the 3



### natural world. 4


### But climate change really threatens our 5


### natural resources, would really undo all of the 6


### progress we've already made. With more intense 7


### storms, for ex ample, sewer systems will overflow 8


### more frequently and really degrade the quality of 9



### our water. 10


### We saw this happen during Hurricane Sandy 11


### from Virginia to Connecticut with the increased 12


### water outflow. Sewer systems were overwhelmed 13


### causing eleven billio n gallons of untreated and 14


### partially treated sewage to be dumped into 15


### adjacent waterways, including Long Island Sound. 16


### Climate change isn't just about 17


### protecting the polar bears and armoring our 18


### coastlines. It's about protecting human health 19



### from these ha zards. 20


### Although I'd like my kids to explore and 21


### enjoy the sound, there's no way I'd let them swim 22

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### in there if it was filled with sewage. 1



### And I know that's not even the worst 2


### impact climate change will bring. I'm sure 3


### you've heard about more intense hur ricanes and 4


### nor'easters, drought and wildfires, invasive 5


### pests and disease, just to name a few. But I'm 6


### sure you've heard this all before and will 7


### continue to hear it throughout the day. 8



### I do, however, have to commend the 9


### Administration for already taking strong action 10


### in raising fuel efficiency standards for cars and 11


### passing a rule for existing power plants. 12


### Enacting rules for new power plants simply makes 13



### sense. 14


### So let's cut the carbon and keep moving 15


### forward on climate. Thank you. 16



### MS. ROSENBERG: Than k you. Questions? 17


### (No response.) 18


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Did Jeanie 19



### Gosche

-- 20



### MS. GOSCHE: Jennie Gosche. Yes. 21



### MS. ROSENBERG: Gosche. 22

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### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Thanks very much. 1


### MS. GOSCHE: I've got two copies. 2


### MS. ROSENBERG: Oh, great. Okay. Thank 3



### you. 4



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: How do you spell 5



### the last name? 6


### MS. ROSENBERG: She'll spell it. 7



### MR. KETCHAN

- COLWILL: Okay. 8


### MS. GOSCHE: The previous speaker spoke 9


### about polar bears, and here I am with photographs 10



### of them. 11


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. When you introduce 12


### yourself, will you please spell your name? 13


### MS. GOSCHE: My name is Jennie Gosche, J

14



### E

- N

- N

- I

- E G

- O

- S

- C

- H

- E. 15


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. 16


### MS. GOSCHE: I would like to thank you 17


### for allowing me to add my remarks to your 18


### deliberations about proposed rules to limit 19


### carbon pollution being emitted from existing 20



### coal

- fired power plants. 21



### I would also like to thank the National 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### Wildlife Federation for inviting me to 1


### participate today. 2


### My name is Jennie Gosche and I live in 3


### Kensington, Maryland. I am empl oyed as a social 4


### worker and therapist by Montgomery County 5


### Government. But today I want to talk about my 6


### experience as a wildlife photographer and my 7


### passionate advocacy for the p olar b ear and my 8


### concern about their survival, and the survival of 9



### all life in the Arctic. 10


### In November 2010 I visited Churchill, 11


### Manitoba, Canada, the polar bear capital of the 12


### world to photograph the polar bears. 13



### Polar bears are listed as threatened 14


### under the U.S. Endangered Species Act, and my two 15


### photographs, this bear here o n my right is a coy, 16


### which is a first year bear. And this photograph 17


### is a photograph of two older bears with their 18


### mother, which are probably close to two years 19


### old. They're almost as large as their mother. 20


### Bears usually stay with their mothers about tw o 21


### to two and a half years. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### Last month the World Wildlife Fund

-- 1


### MS. ROSENBERG: We may need you to speak 2


### into that microphone too because that goes to the 3


### recorder. Just keep them both together. Sorry 4


### to interrupt you, but

-- 5


### MS. GOSCHE: Oh, okay. 6



### MS . ROSENBERG:

-- I could tell he 7


### couldn't hear you. 8



### MS. GOSCHE: Last month the World 9


### Wildlife Fund reported that approximately 5,000 10


### polar bear cubs are believed to have been born in 11



### the Arctic around New Year ' s Day. Polar bear 12


### mothers usually give birth to twins, but three 13


### and sometimes four cubs are occasionally born. 14


### But many of those cubs, up to 45 to 65 percent, 15



### do not live to reach adulthood. 16


### Many factors affect the survival of polar 17


### bear cubs. A female polar bear will stay in the 18


### den with her jus t

- born cubs for months without 19


### food, until the cubs are large enough to follow 20



### her on the ice as she hunts for seals. 21


### And this bear here is, his mother is to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### the side. 1


### The polar bears

-- to hunt for seals the 2


### polar bear's most fat

- laden food. Some cubs do 3


### not survive very long if their mother does not 4


### have the fat stores necessary to nurse her cubs, 5


### or the strength to find food after months of 6


### fasting in the birthing den. 7


### The Arctic ice on which polar bears 8


### depend to hunt seal and raise their cubs, is 9


### retreating at an alarming rate. The ice is 10


### freezing later in the fall and breaking up 11


### earlier in the spring. Many scientists believe 12


### the Arctic warming is due to rising levels of 13


### greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere. Carbon 14


### pollution from the United Stat es ' coal

- fired 15


### power plants has a direct impact on the Earth's 16


### atmosphere as well as the formation and retreat 17



### of the ice in the Arctic. 18


### Please require existing coal

- fired power 19


### plants to reduce their carbon emissions. The 20


### polar bears in the Arctic, as we ll as all U.S. 21


### citizens will benefit. If you do not act now the 22

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### polar bear may become endangered and could be 1


### extinct in our lifetime. Thank you. 2


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Okay. Danny 3


### Ruthenberg Marshall and Grant Lahmann. 4



### MR. LAHMANN: Yes. 5



### MR. MARSH ALL: Hi. My name is Daniel 6


### Marshall. I'm a videographer in the area. 7


### MS. ROSENBERG: Can you spell your name 8


### for the recorder, please? 9



### MR. MARSHALL: Yes, D

- A

- N

- I

- E

- L, 10


### Marshall, M

- A

- R

- S

- H

- A

- L

- L. 11


### A cousin of mine recently gave birth to a 12



### beautiful bab y boy, also named Daniel. He's not 13


### named after me, but he's still a bundle of joy 14


### and the best behaved baby you'll ever meet. 15


### While my cousin was pregnant , I remember 16


### her talking about some of the things she wasn't 17


### supposed to be doing. Among them was e ating 18


### seafood and I thought about our coal

- fired power 19


### plants emitting tens of thousands of pounds of 20


### mercury into the atmosphere every year, and how 21


### that mercury rains down and contaminates our 22

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### waterways and poisons our fish. Not enough that 1


### the average person would notice, but definitely 2


### enough for Baby Daniel to notice. 3



### We welcomed Daniel into this world in 4


### June and I'm happy to say that my cousin is 5


### fortunate enough to live in a neighborhood far 6


### away from any coal

- fired power plant. And 7



### Daniel's risk of getting asthma isn't 8


### significantly increased. 9



### But what about all the children who are 10


### being born every day and growing up in 11


### neighborhoods where asthma and cancer rates are 12


### going through the roof ? 13



### Those children aren't afforded the same 14


### opportunities as Daniel, because we as a society 15


### can't get our act together. 16


### I sometimes wonder what would happen if 17


### Daniel had been born in Beijing, where some days 18


### the air quality is so poor you can't see across 19


### the street. Hundreds of babies are being born 20


### every da y in that city and breathing that toxic 21



### air is their first breath on this beautiful 22

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### plant. Breathing deep and taking in some of the 1


### worst air on the planet. 2


### Those babies got truly unlucky being born 3


### into that situation, into a country that isn't 4


### free, and to a people who cannot advocate for 5


### themselves without fear of persecution. 6


### Here, we have the unalienable right to 7


### speak up and be heard, but what good is it if our 8


### government doesn't listen? What happens if the 9


### will of the people is ignored; if common sense is 10


### ignored? 11



### Will our air continue to worsen? Will it 12


### eventually sink to such levels that everyone can 13


### physically see the danger they face with ever y 14


### breath as the people of Beijing do? 15



### Sometimes I like to believe that we live 16



### in a functional re public where the government 17


### answers to the people instead of this quagmire we 18


### face in D.C. Thankfully in this case it's a 19


### small easy step to take. You have the power to 20


### finalize this rule and you have the moral 21


### obligation to do so, for my sake, for Baby 22

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### Daniel's sake, for the sake of every single 1


### person in this country. I hope you realize this 2



### rule

-- I hope you finalize this rule and help us 3


### guarantee a clean and safe atmosphere for 4


### generations to come. Thank you. 5


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. 6



### MR. LAHMA NN: Hi, my name is Grant 7



### Lahmann. Excuse me. I'm the Outreach Director 8


### for Small Business Majority. 9


### MS. ROSENBERG: Spell your name. 10


### MR. LAHMANN: Yes. First name, Grant, G

11



### R

- A

- N

- T. Last name is L

- A

- H

- M

- A

- N

- N. 12


### Thank you for giving me this opportunit y 13


### to represent my organization and provide comment 14


### on the carbon pollution standards you're facing. 15


### Small Business Majority is a non

- profit, 16


### nonpartisan, small business organization found 17


### and run by small business owners focused on 18


### solving the biggest pr oblems facing small 19


### businesses today. We represent 28 million 20



### Americans who are either self

- employed or own 21


### businesses of up to a hundred employees. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### Our organization uses scientific 1


### research, opinion and economic and works with our 2



### network of more than 25,000 small business owners 3


### to understand and represent the interests of the 4


### small business community. 5


### I'd like and hope to offer comments today 6


### on the small business perspective on EPA 7



### standards that would eliminate carbon emissions 8


### from new power plan ts and their impact on 9



### America's 28 million small businesses and the 10


### economy as a whole. 11


### Over the past 40 years , the Environment al 12


### Protection Agency has proven itself as much a 13


### protector of our economy as of the public's 14



### health. And we see new EPA standar ds under the 15


### Clean Air Act as a key component to progressing 16


### toward a clean energy economy and to creating 17


### jobs. That view is based upon the fact that 18


### during the last two decades under the Clean Air 19



### Act , gross domestic product has increased by up 20


### to 64 pe rcent while emissions of the most common 21


### air pollutants have declined by 41 percent. 22

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### Contrary to misleading claims from 1


### opponents of clean energy and environmental 2


### safeguards, reducing pollution is good for 3


### business and the Clean Air Act has been proven to 4


### be a wise investment for long

- term economic 5


### growth. 6



### Studies show that the economic benefits 7



### of the Act have far exceeded the cost to 8


### businesses. According to the Office of 9


### Management and Budget, the total economic 10



### benefits of the Clean Air Act are esti mated at 11


### more than four to eight times the cost of 12


### compliance. 13


### Additionally, between 2010 and 2015 14


### capital investments in pollution controls and new 15


### generation will create an estimated 1.46 million 16


### jobs, or almost 300,000 year

- round jobs on 17


### average for e ach of those five years. 18


### The EPA's proposed rule that would limit 19


### greenhouse gas emissions from new power plants 20


### will help spur innovation and provide 21


### opportunities for small businesses. And this 22

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### standard is supported by the vast majority of 1



### entrepreneurs . Our opinion polling found three 2


### quarters of small business owners are in favor of 3


### requiring new power plants to reduce emissions of 4


### carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses. 5


### What's more, 56 percent would still 6


### support this standard even if it means an 7


### increase in utility rates. Our polling also 8


### found that 52 percent of small businesses support 9


### EPA, regulating carbon emissions from existing 10


### power plants that cause climate change, and 11


### another 65 percent support the EPA's rules to 12


### reduce mercury and ot her toxic emissions that get 13


### into the air from power plants. 14



### Six in ten agree expanded use of 15


### renewable energy sources can have economic 16



### benefits for small business owners as well. And 17



### almost seven in ten support increasing automotive 18


### fuel efficiency stan dards. 19



### We know that small business owners also 20


### support key strategies needed to reduce pollution 21


### and transition to a clean energy economy. Small 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC

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### Business Majority's recent national poll of small 1


### business owners found that 56 percent of 2


### entrepreneurs belie ve that government can play an 3


### important role in creating financial incentives 4


### to help small businesses take advantage of energy 5


### efficiency measures, saving businesses money and 6


### reducing energy consumption. 7



### Small business owners also believe 8


### government inv estments in clean energy have an 9


### important role in boosting our national economy 10


### and creating jobs. Our polling found 71 percent 11


### of small employers believe it is important 12


### government continues to invest in clean energy. 13


### While 57 percent of small businesse s 14


### reported their businesses will be impacted by EPA 15


### oversight of carbon and other emissions, 16


### including one in four who say they will be 17


### majorly impacted, as I stated earlier, 56 percent 18


### in the same poll still support EPA regulating 19


### greenhouse gas emissions , even if it means a 20


### possible increase in utility prices. 21


### As our polling shows, small businesses 22

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### believe a clean energy economy, that includes 1


### robust clean energy standards, is rife with 2


### economic possibilities. 3


### Entrepreneurs understand clean energy can 4


### stimulate the economy and create new jobs now and 5


### believe we should be investing in this area to 6


### spur growth. 7


### Despite strong small business report, 8


### efforts to set standards reducing carbon 9



### emissions have been blocked over and over. That 10


### comes at the expen se, we believe, of our economic 11



### future. 12


### It is important the EPA know its proposal 13


### to limit greenhouse gas emissions from new power 14


### plants is one small businesses support. Thank 15



### you. 16


### MS. ROSENBERG: Thank you. Do we have 17


### questions? 18


### Are you leaving wri tten testimony with 19



### citations? 20


### MR. LAHMANN: Yes. Absolutely, and happy 21



### to follow up with

-- 22

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### MS. ROSENBERG: That would be great. 1



### MR. LAHMANN:

-- additional. 2


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. 3



### MR. LAHMANN: Uh

- huh. 4



### MS. ROSENBERG: You can leave it here. 5



### MR. LAHMAN N: Absolutely. 6


### MS. ROSENBERG: Okay. Thank you , very 7



### much. 8


### MR. LAHMANN: Thank you , very much. 9


### MS. ROSENBERG: Oh, okay. Great. So we 10


### are going to close this and we're going to move 11



### into the other room and consolidate. 12


### Thank you all very much. 13



### ( Whereupon, at 3:01 p.m., the 14


### Environmental Protection Agency, Public Hearing 15



### on Standards of Performance of Greenhouse 16



### Emissi ons From New Stationary Sources held in 17



### room B was concluded. ) 18

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