1

NEAL R. GROSS

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UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

AGRICULTURE MARKETING SERVICE (AMS)

NATIONAL ORGANIC PROGRAM (NOP)

+ + + + +

MEETING OF THE NATIONAL ORGANIC

STANDARDS BOARD (NOSB)

+ + + + +

TUESDAY

APRIL 26, 2011

+ + + + +

The National Organic Standards

Board convened at 8:00 a.m. at the Red Lion

Hotel, 1514 Fifth Avenue, Seattle, Washington,

Tracy Miedema, Chairperson, presiding.

MEMBERS PRESENT

TRACY MIEDEMA, Chairperson

COLEHOUR BONDERA

STEVE DEMURI

JOSEPH DICKSON

KRISTINE "TINA" ELLOR

BARRY FLAMM

JOHN FOSTER

WENDY FULWIDER

KATRINA HEINZE

NICHOLAS MARAVELL

ROBERT "MAC" STONE

JENNIFER TAYLOR

C. REUBEN WALKER
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STAFF PRESENT

MILES McEVOY, Deputy Administrator, National

Organic Program

MELISSA BAILEY, Director, Standards 

Division, National Organic Program

LISA BRINES, Standards Division, National 

Organic Program

EMILY BROWN ROSEN, Standards Division,

National Organic Program

LISA AHRAMJIAN, NOSB Executive Director
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C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S

Call to Order .. . . . . . . . . . . . . 5

Tracy Miedema, Chairperson

Secretary's Report. . . . . . . . . . . . 26

Wendy Fulwider, Secretary 

NOSB Materials Review Process Update . . 32

Katrina Heinze,

Materials Committee Chairperson

National Organic Program Report . . . . . 49

Miles McEvoy, Deputy Administrator,

 National Organic Program 

Inert Materials Working Group Report . .. 89

Emily Brown Rosen,

Agricultural Marketing Specialist,

National Organic Program 

Welcome Comments . . . . . . . . . . . ..100

Dan Newhouse, Director, Washington State

Department of Agriculture 

Public Comments

Meghann Quinn . . . . . . . . . . . . . 113

Paige Tomaselli . . . . . . . . . . . . 118

Urvashi Rangan . . . . . . . . . . . . 122

Sam Earnshaw . . . . . . . . . . . . . 126

Will Fantle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 129

Deborah Carter . . . . . . . . . . . . 135

David Bruce . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 141

Don Gibson . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145

Buzz Hoffard . . . . . . . . . . . . . 151

Patrick Leavy . . . . . . . . . . . . . 154

Charlotte Vallaeys . . . . . . . . . . 155

Leika Suzumura . . . . . . . . . . . . 161

David Granatstein . . . . . . . . . . . 165

Phaedra Morrill . . . . . . . . . . . . 173

Bruce Riggle . . . . . . . . . . . . . 176

Matt Perrin . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 179

Tyler Shannon . . . . . . . . . . . . . 181

Gregg Buckwalter . . . . . . . . . . . 185

Goldie Caughlin . . . . . . . . . . . . 188

Lindsay Fernandez-Salvador . . . . . . 192
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Public Comments(Cont'd)

Blair Busenbark . . . . . . . . . . . . 196

Patti Bursten . . . . . . . . . . . . . 199

Bob Baker . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 202

Harold Austin . . . . . . . . . . . . . 209

Joan Moyer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 216

Chris Pierce . . . . . . . . . . . . . 217

Gerry Davis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 221

Jo Ann Baumgartner . . . . . . . . . . 225

Dan Giacomini . . . . . . . . . . . . . 231

Bruce Scholten . . . . . . . . . . . . 236

Liana Hoodes . . . . . . . . . . . . . 238

Gary Middleton . . . . . . . . . . . . 244

Paolo Bonetti . . . . . . . . . . . . . 253

Steve Pierce . . . . . . . . . . . . . 256

Edward Maltbe . . . . . . . . . . . . . 267

Ashley Swaffar . . . . . . . . . . . . 273

Laura Batcha . . . . . . . . . . . . . 276

Kyla Smith . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 280

Lynn Coody . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 282

Marty Mesh . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 294

Matt O'Hare . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 299

Jackie Hodge . . . . . . . . . . . . . 303

Steve Etka . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 307

Michael Sligh . . . . . . . . . . . . . 316

John Hyer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 323

Bridget O'Brien . . . . . . . . . . . . 327

Michael Cox . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 329

Ken Johnson . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 333

Phil Spiegel . . . . . . . . . . . . . 342

Perry Clutts . . . . . . . . . . . . . 345

Andrea Caroe . . . . . . . . . . . . . 347

Andrew Waterhouse . . . . . . . . . . . 352

Dean Wesen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 356

Jenneke Dejong . . . . . . . . . . . . 357

Holly Born . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 360

Tony Schilter . . . . . . . . . . . . . 363

Paul Staehely . . . . . . . . . . . . . 366

Emanuel De Merez . . . . . . . . . . . 369

Jackie Bowen . . . . . . . . . . . . . 373

Bob Anderson . . . . . . . . . . . . . 376

Katherine Withey . . . . . . . . . . . 379

Adjournment
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1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S

2 8:00 a.m.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Esteemed

4 colleagues of the National Organic Standards

5 Board, United States Department of

6 Agriculture, National Organic Program staff

7 and dear members of the public, good morning

8 and welcome to the spring 2011 meeting of the

9 National Organic Standards Board. Before we

10 begin with introductions and announcements,

11 Deputy Administrator Miles McEvoy would like

12 to present a special address that he has

13 brought from Washington, D.C.

14 MR. MCEVOY: Good morning. This

15 is Miles McEvoy, deputy administrator for the

16 National Organic Program. Kathleen Merrigan,

17 Deputy Secretary for USDA has prepared a video

18 message for the National Organic Standards

19 Board that we'd like to present to you now.

20 MS. MERRIGAN (via video): Good

21 morning everyone, Kathleen Merrigan, Deputy

22 Secretary. I wish I could be with you today.
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1 First of all, I want to start by thanking the

2 National Organic Standards Board for your

3 service. You have spent countless hours in

4 developing proposals for public review and

5 full board consideration. As a former board

6 member I understand the amount of work

7 involved in committee calls and board

8 meetings. The issues that you are dealing

9 with are challenging because agricultural

10 systems are complex. They involve

11 environmental and economic considerations,

12 consumer interests and the realities of

13 organic production and handling. You have

14 reviewed technical reports, thousands of

15 public comments and government regulations to

16 develop your proposals. I know that your

17 proposed committee recommendations were

18 developed with the greatest care to balance

19 all of the information and respect the

20 diversity of interests within the organic

21 community. Well, now comes the fun part where

22 you get to listen to numerous public comments
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1 and make your final recommendations in the

2 public spotlight. Your recommendations impact

3 the livelihood of thousands of organic

4 farmers. Consumers depend upon your

5 recommendations to align with their

6 expectations of organic farming and the

7 ingredients they expect to be in organic food

8 products. Board members need to keep an open

9 mind and a listening attitude. As the

10 seasoned board members know there are times

11 when the public testimony is heated and

12 passionate. Remember that it comes with the

13 territory, it is part of the wonderful public

14 process, but at the end of the day after a

15 spirited debate you are all part of that same

16 community trying to make the right decisions

17 to support the thriving organic agricultural

18 industry. 

19 I also want to thank the public

20 for their participation. We understand that

21 the NOSB recommendations are critically

22 important to your livelihoods and the food
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1 that you eat. Your comments help the board

2 develop better recommendations. Your

3 participation in providing public comments is

4 critical to understanding the issues involved.

5 Thank you for your contributions and know that

6 the board and the National Organic Program

7 review your comments and take your input very

8 seriously. As testament to the strong public

9 interest in organic issues nearly 200 people

10 signed up to make public comments at this

11 meeting. The board agenda includes two days

12 of public comment and with five minutes per

13 person the board would have been unable to

14 accommodate all public input and adhere to the

15 agenda. The board requested to reduce the

16 oral comment period from five minutes to three

17 minutes per person so that everyone who wants

18 to make public comment could be heard. The

19 program provided advance notice of the 3-

20 minute limitation last week as a courtesy to

21 participants. We felt that it was more

22 important to hear from everyone rather than
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1 cut off public participation. Thank you for

2 your understanding.

3 Organic agriculture is prospering

4 with an 8 percent growth rate in 2010 and

5 nearly $29 billion in sales. The USDA has

6 made numerous strides in supporting the

7 organic agriculture over the last two years.

8 The restructuring of the NOP within USDA's

9 organizational scheme has elevated the program

10 to function as its own unit under the Ag

11 Marketing Service. In conjunction, the

12 program received an increase in congressional

13 funds, bringing the budget from $3.89 million

14 in 2009 to nearly $7 million in 2010. The

15 President proposed a $3.1 million increase for

16 FY '11 but with all of the budget cuts to

17 discretionary funding and USDA in particular

18 it was a victory to retain the $6.9 million

19 budget for FY '11. President Obama has

20 requested an NOP budget of almost $9.9 million

21 for 2012. If approved, the $2.9 million

22 increase would be used to accelerate review
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1 and development of NOP regulations to conduct

2 more surveillance of foreign accredited

3 certified agents and increase capacity to

4 investigate complaints and violations, both

5 domestic and foreign, to enable the program to

6 respond to requests for international

7 equivalency agreements and to educate

8 certifying agents worldwide to ensure organic

9 regulations are consistently implemented. 

10 The NOP is in an age of

11 enforcement. Civil penalties for willful

12 violations of the organic standards may be

13 severe, response times to complaints are

14 improving and interpretations of organic

15 standards have been narrowed and applied more

16 consistently. The NOP is increasing

17 enforcement activities in the United States

18 and monitoring recognition agreements with

19 foreign countries. In September 2010 the Ag

20 Marketing Service published its first NOP

21 program handbook to provide guidance for

22 accredited certifying agents, state organic
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1 programs and producers and handlers so that

2 organic standards are consistently

3 implemented. The NOP still has a lot of hard

4 work to do. Though improvements to the

5 complaint-handling process have occurred,

6 additional work is needed to more rapidly

7 address emerging issues, label violations and

8 fraudulent activities. The program needs to

9 do more work on improving the oversight,

10 accountability and performance of the nearly

11 100 accredited certifiers that operate around

12 the world. There are many NOSB

13 recommendations that have not been implemented

14 and rulemaking or guidance is needed. The

15 Organic Foods Production Act was designed to

16 respect the authority of the organic community

17 through the National Organic Standards Board

18 concerning which materials are allowed in

19 organic production and handling. The NOSB has

20 a statutory responsibility to review and

21 recommend materials for the national list of

22 allowed and prohibited substances. The USDA
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1 cannot add materials to the national list

2 unless the NOSB has reviewed and recommended

3 those materials to be added to the list. 

4 The NOSB also has the

5 responsibility every five years to conduct the

6 sunset review of all substances on the

7 national list. Your agenda this week includes

8 the last of the 232 materials that are part of

9 the 2012 sunset review process. After the

10 April 2011 NOSB meeting the program will

11 prepare and publish the 2012 sunset proposed

12 rule. Once the comment period closes the

13 program will review the public comments

14 received and prepare a final rule. The final

15 sunset 2012 rule must be published before June

16 2012 or some substances currently allowed in

17 the national list will not be allowed to be

18 used in organic production or handling. Given

19 the lengthy timeline for rulemaking the

20 program will be working expeditiously after

21 this meeting to issue a final rule by the June

22 2012 deadline. I recognize the challenges
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1 that the board faces with the sunset review of

2 nutrient vitamins and minerals. As NOP deputy

3 administrator Miles McEvoy described in April

4 2010, previously the current annotation for

5 nutrient vitamins and minerals was incorrectly

6 interpreted by the program. We apologize for

7 this. It has made your job tougher. The

8 program has been working with the Food and

9 Drug Administration to understand what

10 vitamins and minerals are covered by the

11 existing annotation and explore alternatives

12 that would provide a clear and transparent

13 list of substances that could be reviewed by

14 the board and by the public. The program has

15 the responsibility to provide a clear and

16 transparent list of substances that are

17 allowed in organic production and handling.

18 The board has the responsibility to approve

19 all substances it feels should be on the

20 national list and to review all allowed

21 substances every five years. The program

22 needs the board now in this time to roll up
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1 its sleeves, listen to public comment and

2 complete the sunset review of the current

3 listing for nutrient vitamins and minerals at

4 this meeting. 

5 The board should be aware that the

6 completion of the sunset review of nutrient

7 vitamins and minerals does not preclude the

8 board from making future recommendations

9 concerning nutrient vitamins and minerals. If

10 the NOSB does not approve the re-listing of

11 nutrient vitamins and minerals or any other

12 2012 sunset materials at this meeting then

13 nutrient vitamins and minerals or any other

14 materials not voted on will not be included as

15 part of the 2012 sunset process. See, we're

16 up against some serious deadlines here.

17 Failure to re-list nutrient vitamins and

18 minerals will cause these substances to be

19 removed from the national list on October 1,

20 2012 because the board failed to review such

21 exemption under the OFPA sunset provision.

22 Understand the failure to move forward would
15

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1 have a devastating impact on certain segments

2 of the industry including dairy because the

3 addition of Vitamins A and D to organic milk

4 would no longer be allowed, nor any other

5 fortified product, cereals, et cetera. This

6 is why the department needs the board to

7 complete its sunset review of nutrient

8 vitamins and minerals at this meeting and

9 provide us their recommendation. At future

10 meetings the board may decide to recommend

11 annotation changes or the addition of

12 substances, including vitamins, minerals or

13 other nutrients in the national list. The

14 program and the department are available to

15 assist the board and the organic community.

16 Please let us know how we can help. Again,

17 thank you for your work, thank you for facing

18 tough decisions this week. I wish you all the

19 best and again I wish I could be there.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you to the

21 National Organic Program for carrying that

22 address from Deputy Secretary Kathleen
16

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1 Merrigan. Quite an extraordinary address.

2 I'd like to make a few announcements. First,

3 let everyone know we are in about minute 12 of

4 a meeting that is scheduled to go 2,175

5 minutes and they are sure to be filled with a

6 whole host of interesting topics. 

7 A few housekeeping announcements

8 here. We do have one podium up at the front

9 of the room here. Please do listen for your

10 name to be called. We will have one public

11 speaker at the podium and one person standing

12 by, and that person will be seated here next

13 to Lisa Ahramjian at the front table. If you

14 would like to connect to the internet we do

15 have an internet connection, a wireless

16 connection in the room. Lisa, will you please

17 tell the group the password information? 

18 MS. AHRAMJIAN: Sure. So the

19 network is USDA and the password is emerald

20 lower case, and then the numeral 1. 

21 CHAIR MIEDEMA: I would also like

22 to remind everyone to turn off their cell
17

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1 phone ringers. I believe there's a standing

2 round at the end of the day that needs to be

3 purchased by anyone whose cell phone rings

4 during the meeting. Okay. At this time I

5 would like to approve our agenda. And I would

6 like to start by polling each of our committee

7 chairs on whether they have any changes to the

8 agenda. And I'll start with Wendy Fulwider,

9 Livestock Committee. Do you have any changes

10 from what was announced at regulations.gov?

11 MS. FULWIDER: Yes, we will -

12 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Excuse me, NOSB

13 members, please hold down the button while you

14 are speaking.

15 MS. FULWIDER: We will be pulling

16 the omnivore discussion document and we will

17 bring that in the fall.

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Barry

19 Flamm, Policy Committee, do you have any

20 changes to the agenda?

21 MR. FLAMM: There should be only

22 two items on the policy agenda. The third one
18

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1 if it still appears on the agenda - I don't

2 have it in front of me - that should - will be

3 postponed till fall.

4 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Joe Dickson,

5 Certification, Accreditation and Compliance

6 Committee.

7 MR. DICKSON: We have no changes

8 to the agenda.

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Steve DeMuri and

10 Handling Committee.

11 MR. DEMURI: Thank you, Tracy.

12 Yes, we have a few changes today. The first

13 one is for a petition to remove silicone

14 dioxide. We had originally planned on having

15 a recommendation ready for this meeting on

16 that petition to remove but based on all the

17 public comment we received and our desire to

18 receive more public comment because there is

19 a lot of split in this particular material we

20 would like to postpone that until the fall

21 2011. The other one is nutrient vitamins and

22 minerals, the sunset 2012 recommendation. We
19

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1 had originally had it on the agenda. We put

2 out a notice a couple of weeks ago that we

3 would like to rescind it from the agenda

4 because of all the public comment we were

5 receiving. We felt like we needed a little

6 more time to delve into it, receive more

7 public comment, make a very strong

8 recommendation that the board could vote on.

9 We subsequently decided to pull it from the

10 agenda and the program last week notified us

11 that because of the timing issue that Kathleen

12 so eloquently described that that was going to

13 be a problem. So what we would like to do for

14 this meeting is leave it on the agenda as a

15 recommendation for now. We would like to

16 reserve the right to pull it if we need to.

17 We will be asking the program during their

18 update later today to describe to us what the

19 timing is for the sunset process from your

20 perspective so that we can get a better

21 understanding of what steps have to take place

22 when. And at that point the committee will
20

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1 reconvene and we'll go through it again. At

2 this point we really only see two options.

3 One is to delay a sunset vote until 2011 in

4 the fall, the other one is to re-list it as it

5 currently stands just to buy us some time

6 until the next meeting when we can come back

7 with some more thoroughly thought out

8 recommendation based on all the public

9 comment. 

10 And the last agenda item change

11 for the committee is the - a related subject,

12 nutrient vitamins and minerals recommendation.

13 Again because of all the public comment we

14 received and our desire to receive more and to

15 really study that comment we would like to

16 postpone that recommendation until the fall of

17 2011.

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Steve.

19 John Foster and Crops Committee.

20 MR. FOSTER: Thanks, Tracy.

21 There's two listings for the sodium or

22 thallium nitrate. One is the sunset
21

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1 recommendation, the other is a response to the

2 NOP. We went through a lot of deliberations.

3 We'll be voting on the sunset on thallium

4 nitrate while addressing the issues that the

5 NOP brought forward so we will be addressing

6 the NOP, however, it's a single agenda item.

7 For sodium nitrate.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, John.

9 Katrina Heinze and Materials Committee.

10 MS. HEINZE: We don't have any

11 changes, thank you.

12 CHAIR MIEDEMA: May I have a

13 motion to approve the agenda? 

14 MR. DEMURI: I'll move.

15 MS. ELLOR: I'll second then.

16 CHAIR MIEDEMA: All in favor of

17 approving the agenda for the spring 2011

18 meeting of the National Organic Standards

19 Board say aye.

20 (Chorus of ayes)

21 CHAIR MIEDEMA: My apologies. Was

22 there any discussion on that? Looks like
22

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1 there was. 

2 MS. HEINZE: As chair of the

3 Materials I did want to highlight that this is

4 - and I'll bring this up in my presentation.

5 This is the first meeting where we've handled

6 annotation changes during sunset. So while

7 the agenda doesn't list it, there will be two

8 votes for each of those materials. So I just

9 wanted to highlight that since those aren't

10 listed on the agenda.

11 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you,

12 Katrina. Any other discussion? Okay. The

13 vote stands, we have an approved agenda and

14 let's carry on here. I'd first like to extend

15 a very warm welcome to our five new National

16 Organic Standards Board members. I'll note

17 that Jennifer Taylor is having some trouble

18 with her travels and her flights getting here

19 so we expect to see her this afternoon, but I

20 would like to extend that very warm welcome to

21 Colehour Bondera, Mac Stone, Nick Maravell,

22 Calvin Walker and Jennifer Taylor. We'll take
23

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1 a couple of minutes here and each give a brief

2 biographical introduction and get to hear from

3 our new members and learn about them as well,

4 thank you. Let's start with you, Steve.

5 MR. DEMURI: Hello, everybody,

6 thank you, thank you for coming. My name is

7 Steve DeMuri. I've been on the board now,

8 this is my fifth year. I'll be out next

9 January. I'm the chairperson of the Handling

10 Committee and a member of the Crops and

11 Executive Committees. In my free time I work

12 for the Mmm Mmm Good Campbell's Soup Company

13 handling all supplier and vendor quality co14 manufacturers and all organic certification

15 and production aspects for our company.

16 MS. HEINZE: Good morning. Okay.

17 Katrina Heinze. I am the scientist on the

18 board, also starting my fifth year. I sit on

19 Handling and Materials and chair the Materials

20 Committee. Not in my free time I work for

21 General Mills where I lead food safety and

22 product quality for Small Planet Foods and our
24

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1 Cascadian Farm and Muir Glen organic brands

2 and Larabar. My most important job is I'm the

3 mother of Kayla, 11, and Victor, 6, and that

4 really fuels my passion as an organic consumer

5 as they grow in their stewardship of the

6 earth. Thanks.

7 MR. STONE: My name is Mac Stone.

8 I'm executive director for the Office of

9 Marketing at the Kentucky Department of

10 Agriculture of which the organic certification

11 program is part of that. I also farm

12 organically with my wife and her brother

13 raising vegetables and various kinds of meat

14 organically.

15 MR. FOSTER: My name is John

16 Foster. I'm a director of quality food safety

17 and organic integrity for Earthbound Farm.

18 I'm here as a handler representative. I chair

19 the Crops Committee. I'm also on the Handling

20 Committee, Materials Committee and the

21 Certification, Accreditation and Compliance

22 Committee. This is the beginning of my second
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1 year and I'm very happy to be here and happy

2 to see so many interested and committed folks

3 in the audience. It's really a - it's really

4 a tribute to you all. Thank you.

5 MR. BONDERA: Hello folks, I'm

6 Colehour Bondera. Thank you for having me

7 here. I come here from Hawaii, I'm a farmer

8 in Hawaii with my wife. We have a very

9 diversified, very small, longtime certified

10 organic farm. And I do serve on the - excuse

11 me, the Crops and the Livestock Committees,

12 and I think that the main thing that I feel

13 like I can and would like to be doing for you

14 all is listening to and representing the

15 public, especially from the very small-scale

16 operation perspective. And again, thank you

17 for having me.

18 MR. DICKSON: Good morning. My

19 name is Joe Dickson. I am the retail

20 representative on the board. I work for Whole

21 Foods Market as the global coordinator of

22 quality standards. I manage food quality
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1 issues and organic certification for the

2 company. This is the beginning of my second

3 year on the board and something like my

4 seventh year as sort of a board groupie

5 following the board's activities and watching

6 very closely. I chair the Compliance

7 Accreditation and Certification Committee and

8 I serve on the Livestock, Handling and Policy

9 Development Committees. Thank you. 

10 MS. FULWIDER: I'm Wendy Fulwider

11 and this is my second year on the board. I

12 serve as Livestock chair and I'm a member of

13 the Materials Committee. I work for Organic

14 Valley as the animal care specialist and I

15 have been a farmer my entire life and my son

16 is currently completing the organic transition

17 of our diversified livestock farm and he will

18 be adding dairy cows next year.

19 MS. ELLOR: My name is Tina Ellor.

20 I'm filling an environmentalist seat on the

21 board and this is my final year. Looking

22 forward to sitting out there and watching with
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1 you guys. I'm currently - what am I, vice

2 chair of the Livestock Committee and also the

3 Crops Committee. 

4 MR. MARAVELL: My name is Nick

5 Maravell and I'm the operator of Nick's

6 Organic Farm. I started back in 1979 as an

7 all-vegetable producer and now I have very

8 little vegetable left in my lineup but I'm a

9 diversified farm with livestock and crops.

10 And I serve on the Handling Committee and the

11 Crops Committee.

12 MR. WALKER: Good morning. My

13 name is C. Reuben Walker. I serve as program

14 leader for animal science at Southern

15 University. Came here by way of Oregon State

16 animal breeding and genetics statistics. I

17 serve on the Compliance, Accreditation and -

18 Committee, Livestock and Policy and

19 Development Committee. I am delighted to be

20 appointed to the board as a consumer and

21 public interest, and I'm looking forward to

22 this meeting to hear the numerous comments on
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1 some of the great work this committee has

2 done. And as a significant amount of public

3 comments I'm sure most of the committee

4 members have read everything so I'm looking

5 forward to keeping an open mind and see if we

6 can make organic agriculture be the shining

7 program that we all believe it should be.

8 Thanks.

9 MR. FLAMM: Good morning. I'm

10 Barry Flamm. I'm in one of the environmental

11 positions on the board. This is my fourth

12 year. I can't believe it, but it is. As many

13 of you know one of my dearest topics is the

14 conservation of biodiversity and that's what

15 I also at this time consult in and along with

16 a lifetime of working in natural resource

17 conservation, other elements of the

18 environment. But one of the things I'm most

19 proud of is that I was the first certified

20 cherry-grower in the state of Montana. I'm

21 chair of the Policy Committee and serve on the

22 Crops and the CACC Committee. Thank you all
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1 for being here.

2 MR. FELDMAN: Good morning. I'm

3 an environmentalist on the board as well and

4 it's the beginning of my second year and I

5 can't believe it. It's been an exhilarating

6 year working with everybody. I'm the

7 executive director of Beyond Pesticides which

8 tries to bridge farmer-consumer interests on

9 issues related to alternatives to pesticides

10 and organic in particular. I serve on the -

11 well, I'm the vice chair of the Policy and

12 Development Committee. I also serve on the

13 Crops Committee and Materials Committee and

14 the Inerts Task Force. And like the other

15 members, it's a true honor to serve and to

16 work with you the public and really look

17 forward to hearing your input over the next

18 several days. Thanks.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Well,

20 good morning again everyone. My name is Tracy

21 Miedema. I'm chair this year of the National

22 Organic Standards Board. This is my last year
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1 on the board so two meetings. And I've got to

2 say I think I will miss it. I find this work

3 incredibly exhilarating and gratifying and I

4 really look forward to seeing many of you a

5 couple of times a year and I look forward to

6 meeting those of you out here who I haven't

7 had a chance to meet. So please know, you

8 know, we're very informal at the breaks. If

9 you have a chance to introduce yourself to any

10 of us please do that. It's especially nice

11 and serendipitous to have the meeting take

12 place in Washington State. This is my home

13 state and my alma mater town, so that adds

14 something a little extra special here. You

15 know, this meeting draws all walks of life

16 from all over the country and all over the

17 world for one shared purpose of collaborating

18 to shape the future of organic. So your voice

19 is as important as every other voice in the

20 room and that's the reason we're all here

21 today and for the next 2,000-odd minutes. 

22 So without further ado we'd like
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1 to take a look at the NOSB mission. Let's see

2 if we've got that ready to - we don't have

3 that ready to post up this year? We might

4 revisit that. I think we don't have it ready

5 to pull up on the screen right now. We do

6 have that on our agenda but we'll come back to

7 that. Next on our agenda is the secretary's

8 report, Wendy Fulwider.

9 MS. FULWIDER: The only business

10 is acceptance of the transcripts and voting

11 sheets. So if anyone has any changes? 

12 (No response)

13 MS. FULWIDER: If not, if someone

14 would make a motion to accept?

15 MS. ELLOR: I'll motion that we -

16 do you want to do them all as one item?

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Yes. May we have

18 a motion to accept the transcripts and the

19 documents and recommendations from the fall

20 2010 meeting?

21 MS. ELLOR: I will make that

22 motion.
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any second?

2 MS. HEINZE: Second.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: All in favor of

4 approving the transcripts as posted to the

5 Federal Register and the recommendations as

6 submitted from the fall 2010 meeting please

7 say aye.

8 (Chorus of ayes)

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any opposed?

10 (No response)

11 CHAIR MIEDEMA: And I left off

12 that discussion again. Any discussion? 

13 (No response)

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay. Okay. We

15 also have as a tradition getting started at

16 the beginning of our meeting to hear from the

17 Materials Committee chair and get a brief

18 review on the Materials Review process and the

19 various areas of the national list. Katrina

20 Heinze.

21 MS. HEINZE: Thank you. Lisa, do

22 you have the presentation? So while Lisa's
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1 pulling that up, for the new folks this is a

2 review of the national list just to re-ground

3 us as well as the public, as well as a little

4 bit of a review of the process. Next slide.

5 Keep going. Okay. So a review on the

6 national list, just a reminder there are six

7 sections on the national list. For crops and

8 livestock, those both have two sections, 601

9 for crops, 603 for livestock which cover

10 synthetics that have been reviewed by the NOSB

11 and recommended to be allowed for use in

12 organic production. And then similarly there

13 are two sections, 602 and 604, which are non14 synthetic substances which have been reviewed

15 by the NOSB and recommended to be prohibited.

16 Handling is a little bit different. Handling

17 also has two sections but you have 605 which

18 covers non-agricultural ingredients, both

19 synthetic and non-synthetic, which are

20 allowed. So what's different about handling

21 is non-synthetic materials need to be reviewed

22 by the NOSB and recommended to be allowed. I
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1 also wanted to highlight that another

2 difference in handling is that due to other

3 regulation all ingredients have to be on the

4 package so there is disclosure to consumers.

5 Then the second section for handling is 606

6 which is agricultural products that are non7 organically produced. They've been reviewed

8 by the NOSB and determined to have a fragility

9 of supply so they are allowed and recommended

10 to be allowed. Next slide. So to highlight

11 for 606, handlers have to demonstrate that

12 these ingredients can be used only when they

13 are not commercially available in organic

14 form. So there's a process that handlers go

15 through with their certifiers to demonstrate

16 that they have looked for organic

17 alternatives. Next slide.

18 So the material review process.

19 And I know the new folks have been through

20 quite a bit of this in your first couple of

21 months. Material petitions are used to add a

22 new listing, change an annotation or remove a
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1 material currently on the national list, and

2 there are guidelines that have been published

3 in the Federal Register. Okay. Our published

4 minimum time frame is 145 days. I really want

5 to emphasize this is clearly the minimum. It

6 is not the reality and it does not include

7 time for rulemaking. So this is receipt of

8 the petition by NOSB to recommendation by the

9 NOSB. The time frame is dependent on a lot of

10 different things. I would say the real hurdle

11 is manpower within a specific reviewing

12 committee. So right now where we have been

13 under the 2012 sunset which has taken quite a

14 bit of work, this time frame has expanded

15 quite a bit. Okay. Next slide.

16 I won't do all the details, but in

17 general the process is that a petition is

18 received by the NOP, they do a review for

19 completeness, they have dialogue with the

20 petitioner. Once they deem it ready they send

21 it to the NOSB committee review which does a

22 review for completeness, asks for a technical
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1 review if that's necessary. If there's

2 additional technical questions they will ask

3 for a supplemental TR and then that goes back

4 to the program for the technical review. Once

5 that is received the committee reviews the TR,

6 either accepts it or sends it back for more

7 information. Then there is a review of all

8 the material. There may be independent

9 research that happens. There's committee

10 debate. The committee comes up with a

11 recommendation and posts it for public

12 comment. That's received so that's where

13 we've been in the process here for the last

14 couple of weeks and then at the NOSB meeting

15 we review that and vote on a final

16 recommendation. Did want to highlight for the

17 new folks we have a practice that a

18 communication between petitioners and the NOSB

19 goes through the program. That's just so that

20 we have transparency and those public comments

21 are captured and posted. So it is a little

22 bit formal, it does make sure that we capture
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1 those comments. Okay, next slide.

2 A little bit on national list

3 criteria. And I'm - next slide. I'm not

4 going to read all of these, but in general the

5 national list criteria asks us to look for

6 detrimental effects to the land, animals,

7 human health. It asks us to look for

8 alternatives and it asks for a compatibility

9 with the system of sustainable agriculture.

10 Next slide. There are very specific criteria

11 for processing aids. These are available in

12 the rule. But wanted to highlight here that

13 these are specific to processing aids so when

14 we're looking at those you need to add these.

15 Okay.

16 We talked about 606, but this one

17 does get a little bit tricky. So for 606

18 which are those agricultural potentially

19 commercially unavailable materials for

20 handling what we try to look at is why the

21 substance should be permitted in the

22 production or handling of the organic product
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1 and then look at current industry information

2 to look at fragility of supply. So are there

3 climate things going on. So for example my

4 first year we listed hops because there was a

5 drought in Australia that had a significant

6 impact on the ability to get hops and there

7 wasn't an established industry in the United

8 States. We look at the number of suppliers,

9 trade-related issues and other issues that

10 could prevent a challenge to a consistent

11 supply. So what we don't look for is is there

12 any organic available because the organic may

13 be available but in not sufficient quantity or

14 quality. So this is really a

15 quantity/quality/form conversation that we

16 have. Okay, next slide.

17 So sunset review criteria. We are

18 required to every five years review materials

19 that are on the national list to renew those

20 exemptions. So the national list really is

21 exceptions to the rule, and these are listings

22 that were accepted by the NOSB because
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1 evidence showed that the material wasn't found

2 harmful to human health or the environment, it

3 was necessary because of unavailability of

4 alternatives, and use of the material was

5 consistent and compatible with organic

6 practices. Next slide.

7 So the purpose of sunset is an

8 opportunity to revisit the continued need for

9 the exemption. So it's where we determine if

10 conditions relevant to the acceptance of the

11 exemption, so what the NOSB reviewed when they

12 first put the material on the list, whether

13 those conditions have changed, and then if the

14 review finds that the initial conditions still

15 exist the listing is renewed. It's not a time

16 to add new substances and it's not a time to

17 reinterpret information that is unchanged.

18 Those issues are dealt with through the

19 petition process. There are a lot of

20 materials on sunset so I've listed those. The

21 board early on when the first sunset came up

22 in 2007 spent quite a bit of time thinking
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1 through what sunset meant and I would

2 encourage folks to go look at those documents.

3 Lisa or I can provide them if you need them.

4 Okay, next slide. 

5 Now, there are some things that

6 have changed so at our last meeting, at the

7 October 2010 this board approved a policy

8 change allowing annotation changes during

9 sunset review of materials. This is our first

10 meeting where we have used that policy change

11 and it is a learning process. So I just

12 wanted to highlight what we said in our

13 recommendation because some committees

14 probably need to go back and look at your

15 recommendations to make sure you followed this

16 properly. So a quote from the recommendation.

17 "The committee and subsequently the board will

18 first take up the annotation amendment and

19 then vote on the materials renewal." So there

20 is a two-vote process. I know one of the

21 crops recommendations has that, some do not.

22 Okay. Then, just to highlight the steps from
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1 - and these are highlights. I couldn't fit

2 all the steps on the slide, but go look at the

3 recommendation. We can request a third party

4 technical review if we feel that there is

5 public comment that is going to warrant that.

6 The NOSB committee begins review of the

7 material with the intent of providing a

8 recommendation to the board. The review is

9 conducted based on the force of evidence - so

10 this is a longstanding NOSB standard - as

11 presented by board members, public comments

12 and scientific data. So there needs to be a

13 force of evidence to change the annotation.

14 And then finally and maybe most importantly

15 the reviewing NOSB committee provides its

16 recommendation to the full board and the

17 public no less than 60 days and it would

18 include the following: a simple motion to

19 remove, add or amend an annotation resulting

20 in a restriction or clarification. So you

21 can't loosen an annotation, you can only

22 tighten. And a simple motion to renew the
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1 existing listing. Next slide. 

2 Okay. So that was process. Now

3 moving on to an update and this is mostly for

4 the public so you know where we are in our

5 work plans. For the Crops Committee they're

6 handling three petition - two petition

7 materials and then sunset reviews at this

8 meeting. They have received a petition - so

9 since the last meeting we've received a

10 petition to remove ferric phosphate and two of

11 the petitions received by crops have been

12 withdrawn. We have four petitions to add a

13 substance and you can see that we're waiting

14 for TRs on several of those. And then we have

15 petitions for inert ingredients on the crops

16 work plan. Okay, next.

17 For livestock they have no

18 petition materials. They do have - have

19 received a petition to amend the annotation

20 for methionine and they have a TR on livestock

21 vaccines in process. Next. Handling. Quite

22 an active committee at the moment so I won't
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1 read all of them. They've got four - three

2 petition materials and six sunset listings for

3 this meeting. We have one petition to remove,

4 two petitions for annotation changes, a number

5 of petitions to add substances some of which

6 we've reviewed and did not feel were complete

7 and have been sent back to the petitioner for

8 additional information. Next.

9 Okay, the sunset review status.

10 We try to highlight this so that folks can see

11 what's coming. We've got 28 materials for the

12 2012 docket that we should be handling at this

13 meeting and then you can see the flow for '13,

14 '14, '15, and '16, '14 being a really good

15 year for those of you on the board where you

16 won't have any sunset materials. Okay, next.

17 So some final notes. So this is a

18 standing one and it's just to reinforce for

19 the public and the rest of the board that our

20 practice is for a committee chair to assign a

21 material to a committee member to lead the

22 review. They're often chosen due to their
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1 area of expertise and the role of this person

2 is really to steward the material through the

3 process and facilitate a good dialogue. So

4 they'll lead the committee debate, they'll

5 provide all the prospectives to the rest of

6 the committee, they'll write the committee

7 recommendation and then present it at the

8 meeting. I want to highlight for folks that

9 the NOSB reviewer is representing the

10 committee, not always necessarily their own

11 personal perspective. So that's important for

12 folks to know. Okay.

13 And then this is a new note that I

14 was asked to provide. This can get a little

15 bit confusing for the new folks so I tried to

16 provide an example, hopefully a little levity

17 as well. So when we make material

18 recommendations it is our practice to make

19 these recommendations on materials in the

20 affirmative. So for example, we would - the

21 Crops Committee would make a motion to list

22 Google Rocks on the national list section
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1 205.602 non-synthetic substances prohibited in

2 crop production. So they're making it

3 affirmatively. For whatever reason the Crops

4 Committee has determined Google Rocks

5 shouldn't be prohibited so it fails in the

6 Crops Committee with one yes vote and five no

7 votes. The committee brings that motion to

8 the full board again with that affirmative

9 motion to list. The NOSB then has choices.

10 So they can vote and pass the motion which

11 would then list Google Rocks or the motion

12 could fail and it would not be listed. So

13 that is what we do. Now, let's look at the

14 non-affirmative motion. So here the motion

15 would be not to list Google Rocks. The motion

16 would pass in the Crops Committee with five

17 yes, one no vote. They would bring that

18 motion to the full board and the motion would

19 be not to list. If the motion passed then

20 Google Rocks wouldn't be listed, but if it

21 failed we're in limbo, right? Because that

22 would indicate that the board thinks it should
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1 be listed but they can't do that because they

2 don't have that motion. So then Google Rocks

3 needs to go back to committee, the committee

4 needs to rework the recommendation and bring

5 it back at the next meeting. So that's not a

6 very efficient process. It would force

7 everything into a two-meeting vote. So that

8 is why we list everything in the affirmative

9 which I know I struggled with my first year

10 when there was all these things we weren't

11 going to list and we were recommending they be

12 listed, but that's why. So click. So that's

13 not what we do. Okay, next slide. So some

14 website listings and then I think that's it.

15 If there's questions.

16 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any questions for

17 Katrina? Jay?

18 MR. FELDMAN: Katrina, you

19 mentioned transparency and I think for

20 purposes of the public it's helpful to go into

21 a little bit more detail about how that works,

22 specifically the posting of the TRs on the NOP
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1 website which many may be aware of and others

2 may not be. And the issue that we're

3 grappling with right now and that is the

4 disclosure of minutes, committee minutes which

5 some people feel would give them a better idea

6 as to the thinking of the committee and help

7 to possibly engage the public in some of these

8 discussions prior to the public comment

9 period, or engage experts. So I don't know if

10 you want to mention any of that, where we're

11 at or how that process will evolve.

12 MS. HEINZE: Well to your first

13 point yes, I should highlight that technical

14 reviews get posted to the petition database

15 once they have been accepted by the committee.

16 So if there's a technical review - the same is

17 true for petitions. So for example those

18 petitions that we've received but went back to

19 the petitioner have not been posted because

20 they have not been accepted by the NOSB. So

21 TRs are the same way. But once they have been

22 accepted they do get posted and are available
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1 for everyone. You know, for the second topic,

2 Jay, I'm not sure that's in the purview of the

3 materials review process but certainly

4 something that I know is an ongoing dialogue.

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: I recognize

6 Melissa Bailey, National Organic Program. Oh,

7 Lisa Brines.

8 MS. BRINES: Yes, Lisa Brines for

9 the record. Just a clarification that when

10 petitions are sent to the board for review

11 they are posted on the website immediately

12 once they are submitted to the board. So they

13 are available immediately. Technical reports

14 according to the policy manual as Katrina

15 described is they're not posted on the website

16 until the board has fully reviewed them and

17 all of their technical questions have been

18 addressed.

19 MS. HEINZE: Thank you for

20 clarifying, Lisa.

21 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you,

22 Katrina. I have one point to add to our - for
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1 the benefit of our new members. This

2 authority over materials is the most unique

3 and significant authority that Congress gave

4 us in creating the NOSB such that not even the

5 Secretary of Agriculture can go around this

6 board when it comes to materials. So I just

7 want to implore you to think independently and

8 know that we have the weight of law to vote

9 independently as a board. It is now time for

10 Deputy Administrator Miles McEvoy to give his

11 semi-annual National Organic Program address.

12 MR. MCEVOY: Good morning. Nice

13 to be here. Can everybody hear me in the

14 back? Okay, great. I'm very happy to be back

15 in my home state, Washington State. The

16 weather is, you know, typical for the spring,

17 cold and wet but sometimes it's beautiful

18 here. I mean, this is beautiful too. If

19 you're from this area the rain and the

20 precipitation is part of what makes this part

21 of the world really, really beautiful. So I'm

22 Miles McEvoy, deputy administrator for the
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1 National Organic Program. I have a lot of

2 things to do. I know we have a tight agenda

3 so I'm just going to get right into it and

4 you're going to move fast forward here. So I

5 have three things I'm going to cover, a

6 program update, what's going on with the

7 National Organic Program, a little bit of

8 background on materials and then nutrient

9 vitamins and minerals.

10 So the three main components of

11 the National Organic Program, what we're

12 implementing is having clear, enforceable

13 standards, a rigorous certification process to

14 verify the organic claims and then enforcement

15 to make sure that when there are violations of

16 the standards that we bring people back in

17 line with the requirements. A little bit on

18 the program update. The Fiscal Year 2010

19 budget was $6.9 million. We had requested a

20 $3.1 million increase for Fiscal Year 2011.

21 You probably followed there were a lot of

22 considerations about the Fiscal Year 2011
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1 budget that was finally passed a few weeks

2 ago. What we ended up with is about the same

3 amount of money as we had last year, about

4 $6.9 million with a little bit of things that

5 are changed around the edges, but basically

6 the same amount of money for this year as last

7 year. Our request for Fiscal Year 2012 is for

8 $9.8 million. That's a $2.9 million

9 enhancement. There's a lot of things that we

10 have done but there are a lot more things that

11 we need to do. We're still a long ways from

12 getting caught up with a lot of different

13 elements of the program in terms of appeals,

14 in terms of complaints, in terms of standards,

15 implementing the National Organic Standards

16 Board recommendations. There's a lot of work

17 that the program still needs to do and

18 additional resources would really help us to

19 get there. 

20 There's been some staffing changes

21 in the program. Arthur Neal who was the

22 associate deputy administrator for the
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1 National Organic Program for last year has

2 gotten a promotion to be the new deputy

3 administrator of the Agricultural Marketing

4 Service's Transportation and Marketing

5 Program. He's going to do a great job there.

6 We're still going to work closely with that

7 program but he's no longer the associate at

8 NOP. So Ruihong Guo who is the director of

9 the Accreditation and International Activities

10 Division, she's now acting associate deputy

11 administrator until we make a permanent hire

12 in that particular position. We also have a

13 number of new hires that we're working on.

14 We're in the process of hiring a

15 communications director for the program and

16 the main task of the communications director

17 is going to be to get the website much more

18 functional and user-friendly than it currently

19 is. There's a lot of information on there.

20 Sometimes it's difficult to find things. We

21 made some improvements about a year ago but

22 there's still a lot more to do there so that's
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1 what that's all about and then we're hiring a

2 number of new ag marketing specialists for

3 each of the divisions to continue the work

4 that we're doing.

5 A little update on the Office of

6 Inspector General. A little over a year ago

7 they published the audit of the National

8 Organic Program. They had seven findings of

9 the program. The NOP needs to improve

10 enforcement, the processing of complaints

11 needs to be more timely, the oversight of the

12 California State Organic Program was

13 inadequate, periodic residue testing had not

14 been implemented as required by the Organic

15 Food Production Act. Peer review of the NOP

16 accreditation program had not been performed.

17 Inconsistent program requirements and audits

18 of foreign certifiers have not - were not

19 conducted. So I'm happy to say that they may

20 - out of those seven findings they made 14

21 specific recommendations for program

22 improvements, 13 of those 14 recommendations
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1 have been completed with corrective action.

2 The one in terms of implementing the periodic

3 residue testing requirements we've met the OIG

4 recommendation component but we haven't

5 completed the rulemaking on that. We have a

6 proposed rule on the periodic pesticide

7 residue testing that will be coming out within

8 the next few weeks and - but we've completed

9 the action for the OIG. The one outstanding

10 recommendation for the OIG recommendations is

11 recommendation number 9 about the peer review

12 panel, and this is where we had two different

13 components. One was that we needed a

14 procedure to do an annual review of the audits

15 of the accredited certifiers. We have already

16 implemented that procedure. But the other

17 part was to actually implement the peer review

18 process. And we've had some difficulties

19 contracting, getting an agreement with the

20 National Institutes of Standards and

21 Technology. We started that process last

22 August but because of a number of different
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1 legal things that I don't completely

2 understand it's taken us a very long time to

3 actually get the agreement signed. It was

4 just signed a month or two ago and we're in

5 the process of getting that assessment done

6 this spring and summer. We'll have a report

7 to report back to the board on that assessment

8 of the - the peer review assessment by NIST at

9 the next meeting.

10 The strategic plan is how we keep

11 track of how we're doing. This is where we're

12 going, our target, what we're trying to

13 accomplish. It has specific objectives and

14 performance measures in there. So I'm going

15 to go through the five major goals within the

16 strategic plan and a little bit about the

17 performance of how we're doing on meeting our

18 objectives. So the first one is around

19 quality management. The objectives were to

20 develop and publish a quality manual, analyze

21 existing processes and develop a quality

22 management system that's aligned with ISO
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1 17011 which is the international norms for

2 accreditation bodies like the National Organic

3 Program, implement and train the National

4 Organic Program staff on the quality

5 management system, and conduct internal

6 audits, management reviews and continuous

7 improvement efforts. So those were our

8 objectives in this particular area. So we

9 have published the quality manual last August.

10 We're working with the Audit Review and

11 Compliance Branch and collaborating with them

12 to analyze and improve the accreditation and

13 audit procedures to align with ISO 17011. We

14 conducted training with ARC on this new system

15 the last few months so this year the audit

16 procedures are going to be somewhat different

17 to more closely align with ISO 17011. There's

18 a lot of changes there that we've - we're in

19 the process of implementing. And then we've

20 started the implementation and training of NOP

21 staff on the quality management system.

22 That's an ongoing process. If you know about
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1 quality management systems it's not like you

2 do it and you're done, it's an ongoing

3 process. Each division has an assistant

4 quality manager that assists with that

5 training and implementing of the quality

6 management system. And then we're in the

7 process of doing a mid-year assessment of the

8 strategic plan. We have created an NOP

9 integration team that is making specific

10 recommendations for improvements and then we

11 have internal audit and management review to

12 conduct later this year. We have the

13 processes for that in place, it's just a

14 matter of doing those for later this year. 

15 The second major goal is around

16 standards, developing consistency for

17 certifiers and organic producers and handlers.

18 The objectives were to publish the program

19 handbook, develop and publish additional

20 organic practice standards, implement the NOSB

21 recommendations and develop a system to

22 respond to questions and interpretations of
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1 the NOP regulations. Performance here, we

2 published the program handbook first and

3 second edition. There's still a lot more work

4 to do, a lot of guidance and instructions that

5 need to be completed, so that's a work in

6 progress but we're at least - we're making

7 some progress there. The residue testing rule

8 is in clearance. Other practice standards

9 we're working on. We have many national list

10 rules that are under development or in

11 clearance. We've provided training to the NOP

12 auditors on the program handbook so when

13 they're doing the audits this year they're

14 following those guidance and instructions

15 within the program handbook. And we have a

16 new internal public inquiries tracking and

17 documentation system that's under development.

18 We get many, many questions and we need a

19 system to provide consistent answers to folks

20 that are asking those questions.

21 This is a whole long list of

22 published rules, guidances and notices that
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1 we've done since October 2010. Proposed rule

2 on national list for crops and processing, a

3 final rule for crops and processing for a

4 number of different substances, a proposed

5 rule for Sunset 2011, a notice on draft

6 guidance for made-with-organic-ingredients and

7 labeling, a notice for draft guidance on wild

8 crop poultry commingling compost and chlorine,

9 the second edition of the program handbook, a

10 notice for the section 610 review per

11 requirements of the Regulatory Flexibility

12 Act, a notice for the information collection

13 per requirements of the Office of Management

14 and Budget and a final rule on methionine. So

15 all of these standards, all these notices and

16 rules take a significant amount of staff time

17 and - to work with Office of General Counsel

18 and get it through the clearance process. 

19 Forthcoming - what we're coming

20 on, forthcoming rules, guidances and policy.

21 We anticipate many of these things will be

22 published later this spring or summer.
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1 Advanced notice of proposed rulemaking for

2 Sunset 2013, a proposed rule on periodic

3 residue testing, a proposed rule for national

4 list for Fenbendazole and moxidectin, a notice

5 on the final guidance for wild crops poultry

6 commingling compost and chlorine, a notice for

7 ruminant slaughter stocks under the access to

8 pasture - that's answering the questions from

9 the final pasture rule from last year - the

10 final rule on national list for crops and

11 processing for lecithin, cheese wax, acidified

12 sodium chlorite, orange pulp, Pacific kombu

13 seaweed, a final rule for Sunset 2011, a

14 notice on draft guidance for commercial

15 availability of seeds, livestock feed

16 additives, kelp, and responding to positive

17 residue testing results and the third edition

18 of the program handbook which we expect to be

19 out in July of this year. So many additional

20 things are coming down the road for us to get

21 out later this year.

22 Moving on to the third major goal,
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1 accreditation, this is the oversight over the

2 certifiers. The objectives are to conduct

3 thorough and timely audits of certifiers,

4 state organic programs and foreign

5 governments, and also to develop a realtime

6 database for certified operations.

7 Performance in this area, we've completed all

8 foreign audits and we're on schedule for all

9 foreign audits. We have implemented

10 requirements for pre-decisional audits prior

11 to granting accreditation. Three pre12 decisional audits were conducted in 2010 and

13 we have completed the assessment of the

14 Canadian organic regime last fall and the

15 California State Organic Program had their

16 second assessment in two years earlier this

17 year. We've also developed new audit review

18 checklists that will be implemented this year.

19 The new checklist that the auditors will use

20 will actually score the certifiers on their

21 percent compliance with the accreditation

22 requirements so we'll be able to report out
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1 those numbers of the percent compliance with

2 the requirements that certifiers have to

3 maintain for their accreditation. We've

4 established a designated accreditation

5 specialist to provide technical support to all

6 the certifying agents around the world and

7 removed accreditation from two accreditation

8 agents through settlement agreements. 

9 In terms of international

10 activities briefly, the U.S.-Canada Organic

11 Equivalency Arrangement, we now have a

12 technical working group, a steering committee.

13 We're conducting mutual peer assessments and

14 then we've also made a formal request to

15 remove stocking rates from that critical

16 variance for ruminants based on the pasture

17 rule. For EU equivalency the EU had a mission

18 to the U.S. last year. They've completed

19 their report on the NOP. We'll be doing our

20 assessment of the EU program later this year

21 so we're moving forward with trying to see if

22 there's a possibility for U.S.-EU equivalency.
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1 And our other priorities in terms of

2 equivalency and market access are China, Korea

3 and Japan. China in particular has a new

4 organic standard that's difficult for U.S.

5 producers to get products into China. It's an

6 emerging organic market so we're trying to see

7 if we can do things to open up that market for

8 U.S. organic products. 

9 Moving on to compliance and

10 enforcement, the objectives are to handle

11 complaints and enforcement actions in a timely

12 manner, classify and prioritize the complaints

13 so we're putting our resources to the types of

14 complaints that really make a difference, and

15 develop onsite investigative procedures and a

16 penalty matrix. So we've closed so far this

17 year 71 complaints in the first six months of

18 this fiscal year, improving the closure rate

19 by 15 percent over last year. Thirty-six

20 complaints alleged the representation of

21 products as organic without certification.

22 That's a fairly common complaint that we deal
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1 with. Eleven complaints alleged labeling

2 violations of certified products and two

3 complaints alleged the use of fraudulent NOP

4 certificate. We've also streamlined the

5 complaint intake procedure by establishing an

6 internal investigative priority policy so that

7 we're determining those types of complaints

8 that need to be kind of a rapid - more rapid

9 response. Anything to deal with fraud or

10 pesticide residues, that gets into that

11 category whereas a labeling complaint is not

12 as high of a priority as fraud or pesticide

13 residues. We've also collected eight civil

14 penalties for willful violations in the first

15 six months of this fiscal year compared to 10

16 civil penalties in all of Fiscal Year 2010,

17 and we also have a new enforcement action

18 procedure for publishing notices of NOP

19 fraudulent certificates. We don't have the

20 same - we don't have jurisdictional authority

21 in foreign countries for assessing civil

22 penalties so we're looking at other ways of
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1 protecting organic integrity when it involves

2 a foreign operation. And so we've published

3 two notices about fraudulent certificates both

4 involved in international operations

5 misrepresentation of agricultural products as

6 certified organic through falsification of an

7 approved accredited certifying agent

8 certificate. Now, if this was a certified

9 operation then we would have some authority to

10 suspend or revoke the certification, but these

11 are operations that are operating in foreign

12 countries where we don't have jurisdiction and

13 they're not certified under the National

14 Organic Program. So this is an idea of

15 getting that information out to the public

16 that these are not valid certificates and we

17 plan to continue to expand on that concept.

18 In terms of our management

19 strategy, effectively managing the human

20 resources, communication and administrative

21 activities of the program. This includes

22 working with the National Organic Standards
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1 Board, the cost-share programs, human

2 resources, civil rights, Freedom of

3 Information Act, transparency and

4 communication. In terms of performance here

5 we've developed an employee handbook for NOP

6 staff. We now have the NOP Organic Insider to

7 disseminate information, a Listserv to

8 interested parties. We've done certifier

9 trainings and numerous presentations. We have

10 a new technical report contractor that's

11 providing technical reports to the National

12 Organic Standards Board and the public and we

13 believe that should expedite the response time

14 from the time that we get a technical report

15 request to getting that report to the National

16 Organic Standards Board. We have a new

17 internal petition substances database that's

18 in the process of being populated that will

19 help with our management of the petition

20 substances and that we've met and we continue

21 to meet the federal requirements for

22 disclosing information and also redacting non-
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1 disclosable information under the Freedom of

2 Information Act. That's a constant thing that

3 the program has to deal with. We basically

4 have one full-time person that that's what

5 they do is handle Freedom of Information Act

6 requests and it does impact the rest of our

7 staff as well. It's a very important thing

8 that we do is to provide information to the

9 public but we also have to be very diligent

10 that we don't disclose information that's not

11 disclosable because it's confidential business

12 information or personal information. So

13 that's a constant thing that we're - have to

14 manage.

15 Positive trends that we're seeing

16 is that overall certifiers are very effective

17 at protecting organic integrity. The vast

18 majority of organic operations comply with

19 organic standards and the pesticide residue

20 testing that we've done shows that organic

21 products, many have no residues and those that

22 have residues are at - tend to be at very
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1 minimal residues - minimal levels. So that's

2 a good thing. Okay. So that's the program

3 update. 

4 Moving on to materials. Materials

5 that are used in organic agriculture. There's

6 a long history of their use in organic

7 systems, they're consistent with organic

8 principles and there's nowhere in the Organic

9 Food Production Act that it states that the

10 list of materials - the list of allowed

11 materials should be minimized. In terms of

12 crop materials there's over 500 natural

13 substances and 88 synthetics that are

14 currently allowed under the National Organic

15 Program regulations. And if you think about

16 it there's lots of things. In greenhouse

17 there's potting soils, there's compost and

18 manure, rock minerals, soil amendments,

19 there's liquid fertilizers, micronutrients.

20 For pest control you have botanicals, you have

21 dormant oils, you have biologicals like BT,

22 you have sulfur and pheromones, you have the
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1 inert ingredients and then you have crop

2 production aids such as gibberellic acid and

3 cytokinins. For livestock we have over 400

4 natural minerals and 38 synthetics that are

5 currently allowed under the program. The

6 numbers here are taken from looking at OMRI's

7 list of generic substances. That's where we

8 got the numbers from. So for livestock,

9 livestock feed, feed additives, vitamins,

10 minerals, methionine, feed supplements,

11 molasses, it must be organic. For health

12 care, vaccines, medications, probiotics,

13 excipients. There's many substances used in

14 livestock production, organic livestock

15 production. For handling post harvest

16 substances, processing aids and ingredients

17 both natural and synthetic must be listed on

18 the national list. So there's 28 naturals

19 under 205.605(a), there's 44 synthetics under

20 205.605(b) and then if it's an agricultural

21 substance used in a processed organic product

22 it must be organic or there are 43
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1 agricultural substances on 205.606. They also

2 must be organic unless it can be documented

3 and shown that those particular substances are

4 not commercially available in organic form.

5 So for handling, natural substances includes

6 citric acid, bentonite, dairy cultures,

7 enzymes, flavors, microorganisms and waxes.

8 For synthetic substances, ascorbic acid,

9 baking soda, baking powder, chlorine,

10 ethylene, glycerin, vitamins and minerals and

11 xanthan gum. This is just a sampling of some

12 of the substances. And for the agricultural

13 substances again they must be organic. If

14 they're on 606 they - you can use non-organic

15 if you can show that they're not commercially

16 available. There's 19 colors on there.

17 There's casings, celery powder, fish oil,

18 gelatin, gums, kelp, cornstarch and wakame

19 seaweed just to name a few. 

20 So the Organic Foods Production

21 Act, it's designed to respect the authority of

22 the organic community through the National
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1 Organic Standards Board. Natural substances

2 or non-synthetics are allowed unless they're

3 specifically prohibited. Synthetic substances

4 are prohibited unless they're allowed. It

5 must be through an NOSB recommendation and

6 rulemaking to add the substance to the

7 national list. And again, OFPA has no

8 restrictions regarding the length of the

9 materials list. So the NOSB has the statutory

10 authority to review and recommend approval of

11 the following classes of materials, synthetics

12 in crop production, synthetics in livestock

13 production, non-synthetics and synthetics in

14 organic handling both ingredients and

15 processing aids, and also NOSB recommends

16 prohibitions on natural substances and also

17 advises the Secretary on any other aspect of

18 the implementation of the National Organic

19 Program. 

20 The National Organic Program

21 supports the work of the board. We're a

22 liaison between the board and the national
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1 list petitioners. We coordinate the

2 development of the technical reports by the

3 third party contractors. We take notes for

4 the NOSB committee work. We facilitate the

5 logistics of the NOSB meetings and we ensure

6 a public and transparent process. We

7 definitely respect the work of the NOSB, of

8 your work and we strive to implement your

9 recommendation. You all have been very, very

10 busy over the last, what, 15, 16, 17 years now

11 and we have a lot of work to do to get caught

12 up with you all. So our responsibility is to

13 have clear, enforceable standards including a

14 clear list of allowed substances. We cannot

15 add substances to the national list unless you

16 have reviewed and recommended adding materials

17 to the national list and we have to ensure

18 that those recommendations are clearly defined

19 and follow the process outlined in OFPA, the

20 NOP regulations and the NOSB policy handbook.

21 So making sure that the process is correctly

22 followed.
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1 A little bit about respect.

2 Reasonable - there's a lot of knowledge here

3 and a lot of deep knowledge and background and

4 perspective. You're all reasonable and well5 intentioned people and you have different

6 opinions and perspective. We encourage a

7 spirited debate and public input but at the

8 end of the day we're all part of the same

9 community. We're not always going to agree

10 but we should respect the process and the

11 decisions made by the board. We will

12 certainly respect the decisions made by the

13 board and we implore the board to also do the

14 same. 

15 Nutrient vitamins and minerals.

16 Just want to give a little bit of background

17 on this since this has been such a - an

18 interesting topic to get our hands around. So

19 the 1995 NOSB recommendation said a number of

20 different things. Said specifically that

21 vitamins and minerals that were required by

22 law should be allowed in organic food
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1 products, that accessory nutrients that are

2 allowed or supported by independent

3 professional organizations should be allowed

4 in organic food products on the national list.

5 It also referred to nutrients that are not

6 specifically classified as vitamins and

7 minerals including omega-3 fatty acids,

8 inositol, choline, carnitine and taurine were

9 specifically mentioned in the 1995 NOSB

10 recommendations. And from our perspective

11 that recommendation was promoting or

12 recommending that a relatively open-ended list

13 would be appropriate to support the continued

14 development of nutritionally rich foods. So

15 what the program did is it took that

16 recommendation in the midst of writing the

17 proposed and final rule and came out with the

18 listing in 7 CFR 205.605(b), Synthetics

19 Allowed, and this is how it's written.

20 "Nutrient vitamins and minerals in accordance

21 with 21 CFR 104.20, Nutritional Quality

22 Guidelines for Foods." The reference as
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1 stated in the rule only lists vitamins and

2 minerals that are allowed, that nutrients that

3 are not vitamins or minerals are not

4 referenced in the national list. We went

5 through this a year ago. 

6 So in 2006 NOP received a

7 complaint alleging violation to the national

8 organic standards for certified organic

9 products that contained accessory nutrients.

10 NOP at that time determined that accessory

11 nutrients were allowed based on an

12 interpretation of 7 CFR 205.605(b), 21 CFR

13 104.20 and the past NOSB recommendations. So

14 they took a lot of things into context to make

15 that particular determination that accessory

16 nutrients were allowed under the current NOP

17 regulations. Then in 2008 the NOP determined

18 that lutein ester in another ruling did not

19 fall under the FDA fortification policy and

20 was not allowed in organic foods. That

21 particular letter also stated that only

22 nutrients listed in 21 CFR 104.20(d)(3) were
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1 allowed. So there were inconsistencies in

2 terms of how the program reviewed 104.20 in

3 the past. And what we're trying to do here is

4 say okay, it's not the best reference, let's

5 figure out where to go from here to meet the

6 recommendations from the board and have a

7 clear list of what's allowed in this class of

8 nutrient vitamins and minerals. Next slide.

9 So we've been working with the

10 Food and Drug Administration, specifically the

11 Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition

12 and we finally got the letter from them and we

13 posted it that states that the specific

14 regulatory reference in the national list to

15 21 CFR 104.20 is limited, that it does not

16 cover the nutrients such as taurine, DHA, ARA,

17 lycopene, lutein. It does not include

18 nutrients used in infant formula or pet food,

19 and it does not - FDA does not define

20 accessory nutrients. So it's a real

21 disconnect between that regulatory reference

22 and FDA's view of the meaning of 104.20. And
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1 FDA has suggested that a better regulatory

2 reference to meet kind of the intent of that

3 '95 recommendation would be 21 CFR 101.9,

4 107.100 and 107.10 and that would include

5 essential and approved vitamins, minerals and

6 other nutrients for infant formula and the

7 fortification of foods. The other thing

8 that's nice about those particular references,

9 it does provide specifically lists of

10 substances that you can look at and you can

11 say this is allowed. If it's not on that

12 particular list then it wouldn't be allowed.

13 So our plan is that - well first of all, that

14 we currently list a clear list of nutrient

15 vitamins and minerals that are allowed in

16 organic food products. It's something that we

17 sorely need, that our previous interpretation

18 of those nutrient vitamins and minerals

19 allowed under 205.605(b) was incorrect. We

20 recognize that many certified operations made

21 business decisions based on that '95

22 recommendation and statements previously made
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1 by the program. We do plan to publish draft

2 guidance that will clarify the FDA

3 interpretation of 21 CFR 104.20 and - and next

4 slide. So we plan to provide a transition

5 time for businesses to reformulate products to

6 comply with the regulations as per the FDA

7 interpretation. The draft guidance as per all

8 draft guidance would be published through the

9 Federal Register with a 60-day comment period

10 for the draft guidance and then after that we

11 would publish final guidance after considering

12 the comments received, and again, after that -

13 that final guidance would include the - enough

14 time for the petition process to work, for the

15 board to do their work and for rulemaking to

16 occur to meet the intent of the NOSB and to

17 respect the authority of the NOSB in terms of

18 what materials are allowed in organic food

19 production and handling. 

20 So nutrient vitamins and minerals

21 that are required for pet food are being

22 covered by a separate rulemaking. We're in
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1 the process of working on a proposed rule for

2 the pet food - to implement the NOSB pet food

3 recommendations. DHA, ARA, choline and

4 taurine have been petitioned and are awaiting

5 board action, so those things can be

6 separately reviewed by the board. And we also

7 advise companies that they may petition to add

8 substances to the national list including

9 nutrient vitamins and minerals that are not

10 currently allowed under 21 CFR 104.20. 

11 So in summary the NOSB needs to

12 review and approve all substances on the

13 national list. The program and the organic

14 certifiers, producers and handlers need a

15 clear list of what's allowed and what's

16 prohibited to do their work. We need an open

17 and transparent process, that's essential to

18 moving forward and adequate time is needed for

19 the organic trade to petition substances not

20 included under 21 CFR 104.20, for NOSB to do

21 the review that they need to do and for any

22 rulemaking to be completed. So thank you very
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1 much and please remember that we're all in

2 this together. The NOP is here as a partner

3 with the organic community, with the board and

4 so we look forward to working together on many

5 of these issues in the future. Thank you. 

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Deputy

7 Administrator McEvoy.

8 (Applause)

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Now I'd like to

10 see if anyone has questions for Mr. McEvoy.

11 And before you step down from the podium I

12 hope that you introduce your NOP staff as

13 well. But now, any questions for Mr. McEvoy?

14 Steve.

15 MR. DEMURI: Thanks, Miles, good

16 update. As I mentioned in my agenda update at

17 the beginning of the meeting I was going to

18 ask you for an off-the-top-of-your-head

19 timeline on sunset for nutrient vitamins and

20 minerals if we did not act on it at this

21 meeting.

22 MR. MCEVOY: Well, the program's
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1 going to - is going to be moving forward with

2 the Sunset 2012 proposed rule after the

3 meeting. So we need to move forward with

4 that. It's 230-plus materials, 232 materials

5 that we will move forward with after the

6 meeting. Usually a rulemaking to go from a

7 proposed to a final rule is about - we like to

8 have about 18 months for things that are non9 controversial so we already have kind of a

10 tight time frame to get the proposed and final

11 rule done by June of 2012. In that proposed

12 rule we would list all the materials that are

13 being proposed to be re-listed but we'd also

14 have to list any materials that were not being

15 proposed to be re-listed. So that's part of

16 the consideration here. Now if you wait until

17 the fall meeting which is going to end the

18 first week of December of 2011 then we would

19 work to make a final recommendation on

20 nutrient vitamins and minerals. It wouldn't

21 be included in this packet that moves forward,

22 but we would work as diligently as we could to
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1 try to get that completed by October of 2012.

2 As I said we like to have 18 months to do

3 national list rulemaking. With a

4 controversial topic such as nutrient vitamins

5 and minerals there's all kinds of things that

6 could potentially happen. We've had notices

7 that to us seem to be fairly insignificant

8 that OMB is very interested in everything that

9 the National Organic Program does. And so

10 part of the process we control but a lot of

11 the process we don't control. We have Office

12 of General Counsel that needs to do review, we

13 have OBPA that does review and then we have

14 OMB. So it's a wild card to say what exactly

15 would happen, but we would work our darnedest

16 to get it done.

17 MR. DEMURI: Well, let me ask a

18 follow-up. If we did not act until the next

19 meeting and you folks weren't able to get it

20 completed by the end of the sunset period what

21 would happen to nutrient vitamins and

22 minerals?
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1 MR. MCEVOY: Well, they'd no

2 longer be on the list so that processors could

3 not use those substances in their products.

4 Until rulemaking was completed.

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Katrina?

6 MS. HEINZE: For the full docket

7 that you intend to move forward with after

8 this meeting if there's certain materials that

9 aren't included does that make that docket

10 more controversial? Because then you have to

11 - I'm hypothesizing because then you would

12 have to work through the economic impact of

13 those coming off the list? How does that

14 work?

15 MR. MCEVOY: Yes, that's a good

16 question. So if the - if the 2012 proposed

17 rule does not include nutrient vitamins and

18 minerals would we have to address the

19 potential economic impact of nutrient vitamins

20 and minerals coming off the national list. I

21 think we would have to address that, yes. So

22 it could slow down that process.
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1 MS. HEINZE: And I was just

2 thinking more broadly. There's other

3 materials.

4 MR. MCEVOY: There's lots of

5 materials on that list that are important to

6 organic agriculture, yes.

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any other

8 questions for Mr. McEvoy? I have -

9 MR. MCEVOY: I can introduce my

10 staff.

11 CHAIR MIEDEMA: I have a question.

12 MR. MCEVOY: Okay, go ahead Tracy.

13 CHAIR MIEDEMA: And it's related

14 to something Deputy Secretary Merrigan

15 mentioned. She mentioned the potential of

16 Vitamin D coming out of milk in relation to

17 this topic if we didn't perform sunsetting.

18 What I wondered was the effect of other laws

19 in OFPA and the Federal Food, Drug and

20 Cosmetic Act. I was under the understanding

21 that the National Organic Program is subject

22 to other laws such as the fortification of
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1 milk with Vitamin D.

2 MR. MCEVOY: Well, you can't use

3 the organic standards to violate other federal

4 statutes that are required so if Vitamin D and

5 Vitamin A are required to be in milk then -

6 and the organic standards didn't allow Vitamin

7 D and Vitamin A to be in milk then you

8 wouldn't be able to have organic milk. But

9 you'd still be able to have milk because milk

10 would have that requirement to have those

11 things added to it.

12 CHAIR MIEDEMA: So is Secretary

13 Merrigan saying that if we don't get a vote

14 this time on this material that organic milk

15 would go away?

16 MR. MCEVOY: Deputy Secretary

17 Merrigan is concerned about the potential

18 impact on the trade of delaying a

19 determination on nutrient vitamins and

20 minerals in terms of the amount of time it

21 takes to do rulemaking, the possibility for

22 problems in - I mean there would be the
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1 possibility if you waited till December to do

2 an interim rule. OMB does not like interim

3 rules, especially for controversial topics

4 such as this. So yes, there's - we're just

5 concerned that to not disrupt the trade it

6 would be better to move forward now rather

7 than wait until December. 

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay, thank you.

9 And just one other follow-up question. You

10 mentioned the FDA letter that just was

11 released last week. Our board has just

12 received that letter on Friday. Did FDA

13 approve of the current annotation?

14 MR. MCEVOY: I don't know. 

15 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Katrina?

16 MS. HEINZE: So one of the things

17 that we've talked about is to re-list with the

18 current annotation which is less than ideal

19 and then to move forward with a recommended

20 annotation change at a later meeting. What

21 would be the process to get that annotation

22 change through?
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1 MR. MCEVOY: Well, you have a

2 number of different options that you could

3 take. So you could - you could determine to

4 re-list as is and now with the policy change

5 you're allowed to change annotations during

6 the sunset review process. So you could

7 either recommend to re-list, you could

8 recommend to re-list with an annotation

9 change. If you recommended to re-list with an

10 annotation change then we would take that and

11 incorporate that into the proposed rule for

12 2012. That doesn't preclude you from doing

13 further action in the fall that could again

14 make a further annotation change or a change

15 to the listing. The board has fairly broad

16 authority in terms of what you can do with the

17 national list. You have the petition process

18 where the public can petition to get materials

19 either added to the list or deleted from the

20 list, but you also have the ability as a board

21 to take separate action like you did on the

22 injectable vitamins vote from a couple of
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1 years ago. So if you move forward with a

2 recommendation at this point we would then -

3 either to re-list or re-list with an

4 annotation change we would move forward with

5 proposed rule based on that recommendation.

6 Again, that doesn't preclude you from making

7 a further recommendation in the fall which

8 would entail doing a separate docket to move

9 that forward through a separate rulemaking

10 action. So both of those things could happen

11 at not exactly a parallel process but a

12 staggered process.

13 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any further

14 questions for the deputy administrator? Thank

15 you.

16 MR. MCEVOY: Okay, I'd like to

17 introduce the staff. We have Lisa Ahramjian

18 who is the NOSB executive director. And then

19 we have Melissa Bailey who's the standards

20 director. And then we have Emily Brown Rosen

21 who's staff in the Standards Division and Dr.

22 Brines who's also staff in the Standards
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1 Division and handles the petition process in

2 the national list. 

3 (Applause)

4 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up on our

5 agenda is an update on the inerts materials

6 working group by Emily Brown Rosen. Thank

7 you.

8 MS. BROWN ROSEN: Okay. Good

9 morning. I'm Emily Brown Rosen in the

10 Standards Division now at National Organic

11 Program and I'd like to tell you a little bit

12 about what's been happening with inerts in

13 pesticides. Inert ingredients in pesticides,

14 just a little background for everyone who's

15 not breathing this stuff every day. An inert

16 ingredient is any substance other than the

17 active ingredient which is intentionally

18 included in any pesticide product. That's the

19 definition we have in the rule. It also

20 aligns with the EPA definition of inert

21 ingredient. It's a little bit abridged there.

22 So we have this problem - well, first of all
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1 as examples, these are the other ingredients

2 that don't have to be on your pesticide label

3 by the EPA's FIFRA law. They can be concealed

4 basically. They can just put "inert." So

5 there could be all kinds of things that are

6 used as - to prevent caking, foaming,

7 preservatives, help it stick on the plant,

8 help it actually make the pesticide work much

9 more effectively in a lot of cases. But it's

10 a huge category of compounds.

11 The Organic Foods Production Act

12 permits synthetic inerts that are not

13 classified by EPA as inerts of toxicological

14 concern. So this is the general statement.

15 It's been interpreted in the current

16 regulation and by the previous board to mean

17 a certain class of inert ingredients that are

18 classed by - or were classed by EPA as List 4,

19 meaning inerts that were supposedly of less

20 toxicological concern, of more minimal risk.

21 And so these have been in use, allowed in

22 pesticides for the last - well, pretty much
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1 since 1990 but formalized in 2002 in the

2 regulation. And we also have an allowance for

3 List 3 inerts which are slightly more unknown,

4 more of concern, that are allowed only in

5 pheromone traps, passive pheromone traps. 

6 Now, EPA has revised this system

7 of assessment in 2006 under the Food Quality

8 Protection Act. So they no longer use this

9 system where there was a List 1, 2, 3 and 4 of

10 classification of inerts. And we have been

11 operating yet with this reference in our rule

12 since 2006 and it's an obsolete system. So

13 we're referring to a list of inerts that was

14 done - well, it was last modified in 2004. So

15 this definitely - it's causing more and more

16 problems as pesticide formulations are, you

17 know, newly created that don't really

18 compliment this old system. So we are getting

19 more petitions as the board's well aware for

20 inert ingredients and that they're not on the

21 old List 4. 

22 Last April the board made a
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1 recommendation and reviewed this and it was a

2 difficult thing to try and figure out what to

3 do. In summary, they suggested that the NOP

4 should create a memorandum of agreement with

5 EPA and try and work on evaluating all the

6 former List 3's and 4's, maybe start a task

7 force that the NOSB and/or the task force

8 would review as a first step the former List

9 4's to identify any that might be natural non10 synthetic compounds that would be okay for use

11 and those should be the first choice in

12 pesticide formulations. Then we'd ask - the

13 idea was to ask the manufacturers to give

14 information on all the remaining synthetics

15 and possibly review them individually as

16 petitions. The task force should come up with

17 sort of a prioritized review of inerts with

18 well-publicized timelines and then the result

19 would be either individual listings of certain

20 inerts or maybe there was hope that EPA could

21 manage some sort of list that NOP could refer

22 to. 
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1 Okay. So what we've done since

2 then, we at the NOP have drafted an MOU and

3 we've shared it with EPA. It's a real general

4 agreement to share information and work

5 together. We had an initial meeting with a

6 number of EPA staff in October of 2010 over at

7 EPA and it was a very positive meeting.

8 They're very interested in seeing some

9 progress on this issue. We had another

10 follow-up meeting with the staff that came to

11 our office in December and then we set up an

12 initial work group, we're calling it a working

13 group meeting - working group, not a task

14 force - but we met for a full day in February

15 of this year. And we're basically in a data

16 collection phase at this point. But this is

17 who's on the work group now. It's myself,

18 Lisa Brines and John Punzi from the NOP staff.

19 John Punzi is also a chemist who's on detail

20 to our Standards Division at this time who's

21 done a lot of work with the pesticide residue

22 guidance and regulations so he's very helpful.
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1 On the EPA side we have Chris Pfeifer from the

2 Biological Pesticide Pollution Prevention

3 Division. I think that's what that stands

4 for. And then Kerry Leifer who is in the

5 Inerts Division. He's been around quite a

6 long time and has been very - he knows inerts

7 like inside and out so he's really helpful.

8 Then we've invited several NOSB members, Tracy

9 Miedema, Jay Feldman, and then Jeff Moyer is

10 a former board member who was very involved in

11 the recommendation. And so they all came to

12 Washington and we you know did preliminary

13 work on this.

14 So just some beginning information

15 that we have so far. EPA has made it real

16 clear they're willing to help, they're willing

17 to share with us what information they have on

18 inerts and their procedures for reviewing

19 them, but they don't have authority or

20 resources and they really don't want to be you

21 know the keeper of an organic list of inerts

22 which is kind of disappointing. We would like
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1 - that would be an easy way out but it's -

2 they see it as the National Organic Program is

3 our rules for organic rules. They don't have

4 authority over organic but they want to work

5 with us and collaborate. So that's what we're

6 going to be dealing with. The overall goal of

7 the group is to develop a new policy that can

8 be finalized no later than 2017 which is the

9 next sunset date after this one for the List

10 4 inerts and we would want to do that in a way

11 that provides an ample timeline for pesticide

12 formulators to actually be able to meet that

13 date and not majorly disrupt what limited

14 tools organic farmers have for the pesticides

15 that are in use.

16 Just as a few points of

17 information the old EPA list is divided in two

18 sections, 4(a) and 4(b) and there's a total of

19 879 substances on that list. But this, in the

20 new system EPA lists inerts that are allowed

21 for food crop use either as exempt from

22 tolerance of - in other words, they don't -
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1 they are exempt from having any residue

2 tolerance on the crop or they have specific

3 tolerance, there's limits to how much

4 pesticide residue could be found on a crop.

5 So there's a specific section of the EPA's

6 rules that list these exemptions from

7 tolerance and they also have a system where

8 they classify some inerts as permitted for use

9 in what they consider minimal risk pesticides.

10 This is often referred to as a 25(b) list.

11 These are products that generally - that are

12 exempt from registration. So they have

13 actually changed the 25(b) list, updated it a

14 little bit since December 2010 and that's

15 probably one of our primary starting points is

16 to look at this list and see how usable that

17 could be because that list actually is

18 reviewed for not only hazard to health and

19 humans but environmental harm. So we're -

20 that's one of our primary things to look at.

21 These are some of the options

22 we've been talking about. The first option
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1 listed was, well, maybe we'll have to review

2 everything individually and come up with

3 screening criteria. The board had proposed

4 some types of environmental screening and -

5 health and environmental screening criteria in

6 their proposal last year. This everybody

7 recognizes would be extremely difficult and

8 you know, no one really wants to see hundreds

9 and hundreds of inert ingredients on the

10 national list. It's just - it's very

11 problematic. Then we're hoping maybe we could

12 identify subgroups of inerts under the EPA

13 current system for listing that might be

14 compatible, especially with this 25(b) list.

15 And then another tactic will be to evaluate

16 the currently used inerts for any patterns or

17 groupings, look at the known uses, see if we

18 can identify certain groups that would be, you

19 know, categories of inerts that we'd want to

20 support.

21 So far I'd like to thank OMRI,

22 Organic Material Review Institute, and WSDA,
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1 the Washington State Department of

2 Agriculture, for sharing with us. They have

3 graciously helped us in an anonymous manner.

4 We don't know the products but they've shared

5 with us lists of inerts that are commonly in

6 use in products that they review. We know

7 this is not all the products out there that

8 are being used in organic farms, but it's a

9 good start. And so we're looking at this,

10 comparing it to how EPA classifies them and

11 the old List 4 to see where the overlaps and

12 the gaps are and also going through to look

13 for what are non-synthetic and not a problem.

14 So the good news of this is that out of those

15 879 ingredients OMRI's list only has about 157

16 of 4(a)'s and 4(b)'s that are synthetic. So

17 that immediately, you know, indicates to us

18 that maybe we have a, you know, not as huge of

19 a problem as we were fearful of. And then

20 Washington State's list overlaps pretty much.

21 There's another extra 20 or so that are not

22 covered. So we're looking at I think
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1 approximately 179 List 4(a) and mostly 4(b)'s

2 really. The 4(a)'s are mostly all natural.

3 So that's - so we're starting to focus in on

4 the problem and get somewhere.

5 So the next steps will be to look

6 at the data further, compare all these lists

7 and then look at where the ones that are in

8 use fall under EPA classification, see if we

9 can figure out a baseline reference point and

10 then work on if we're going to need additional

11 criteria. I think the board indicated as

12 pretty well the Crops Committee, I've been

13 working with them the last year, very

14 difficult to review inert ingredients that are

15 being petitioned to the board under the

16 existing checklists and criteria that you go

17 through for an active ingredient in organic.

18 So if we are going to need a step two to

19 review inerts we would like to come up with

20 some better criteria that match, you know,

21 that sort of elaborate on OFPA but are more

22 suitable for inert ingredients in pesticides.
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1 So those are things. So that's basically it.

2 Our plan is to keep reporting back to the

3 board and you know, we'll keep you informed.

4 Any questions? Okay, thank you very much.

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

6 much, Emily. We are slightly ahead of

7 schedule and so if - if Director Newhouse of

8 the Washington State Department of Agriculture

9 is here we would love to hear his address. Is

10 he here? 

11 MS. AHRAMJIAN: Do you want to do

12 the mission first?

13 CHAIR MIEDEMA: We'll take that up

14 right before public comments begin after the

15 break. Director Newhouse, welcome to the

16 podium.

17 DIRECTOR NEWHOUSE: This is an

18 unusual situation. Good morning. My name is

19 Dan Newhouse. I'm the director of agriculture

20 for Washington State and I believe my duty is

21 to welcome you folks to the state of

22 Washington. We are very proud of our state
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1 and located in the far corner of the United

2 States, but we think that we in the Pacific

3 Northwest have a very unique place to live and

4 we welcome you here and are anxious to share

5 our part of the country with you. I also want

6 to take my hat off to you for holding these

7 regional meetings. I've been standing in the

8 back of the room because there's no chairs

9 available so I think that's a great indication

10 of the kind of interest that people have in

11 being participants in your work. So I think

12 it was a great step forward and will make this

13 program even stronger. 

14 Let me just say a few things about

15 Washington State. Maybe many of you have been

16 here before but if you haven't and I'll bet

17 you even if you have there's some things that

18 you don't know about the state of Washington.

19 Of course, I'm going to speak to you from an

20 agricultural perspective because that's the

21 most important thing in the world, right?

22 Being the director of agriculture I can say
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1 things like that and also because I'm a farmer

2 from eastern Washington. But Washington State

3 is, you know, we're known for a lot of

4 different things. You probably have heard of

5 a little airplane company called Boeing.

6 They've been here for a long time. Things

7 like Microsoft and Starbucks and things like

8 that are familiar icons from the state of

9 Washington. Agriculture isn't something that

10 usually pops to mind when people think of

11 Washington State. Maybe you're familiar with

12 our famous Washington apple. That's something

13 that many people know of. But did you know

14 that we can raise, and we do raise

15 commercially about 300 different kinds of

16 crops in Washington State? We can raise

17 almost anything except citrus and those kinds

18 of things. But the variety that we can raise

19 in the state is tremendous and that gives us

20 a lot of opportunities. We've got about

21 39,000 farms in the state of Washington

22 producing some of those 300 different crops.
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1 We're the third largest producer of fruits and

2 vegetables in the United States. We are also

3 - and I'm kind of proud of this - the third

4 largest exporter of agricultural products in

5 the United States, second only behind

6 California and Louisiana which is a fact not

7 too many people even in our state are aware

8 of. Our processing industry is tremendously

9 important as well. Over 40,000 people are

10 employed in agricultural processing. It's a

11 $13 billion industry. It impacts every county

12 in our state. In fact, you're in the largest

13 ag processing county in Washington State of

14 King County. So agriculture is a tremendously

15 important industry. It's fully equal to

16 aerospace which is about 13 percent of our

17 economy. So we are very impactful for our

18 state. So it's a big deal. 

19 I'm very proud of our industry

20 that we have here in Washington State. Of

21 course focused on organics. The National

22 Organic Program has been a tremendous asset to
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1 our farmers. It gives us a lot of its

2 different options, it allows us to

3 differentiate our products from others and I

4 think it gives consumers a tremendous variety

5 of choices which is very important especially

6 in this very competitive market we find

7 ourselves in and extremely thin bottom lines.

8 We need all of the help we can get. We're

9 very proud of our organic industry. I believe

10 we are second in production value in the

11 United States with over $200 million worth of

12 production organically. So it's a big deal to

13 us. Only about I think 1 and a half percent

14 of our farmland is in organic production but

15 it accounts for over 4 percent of our farm

16 gate value in the state of Washington. So

17 there's a tremendous value to our industry. 

18 Being the director of agriculture

19 let me brag a little bit about WSDA. We have

20 the largest organic program in the country.

21 We have benefitted from tremendous leadership

22 in our program, not the least of which was Mr.
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1 Miles McEvoy who actually helped start our

2 program more than 20 years ago. So thank you

3 very much, Miles, for your contributions and

4 I certainly want to say thank you to him for

5 his continued leadership at the USDA and his

6 efforts in making sure organic remains a

7 strong viable option. We are also the biggest

8 state organic certification agency. We are

9 very proud of our relationship with our

10 growers and we are working hard to improve

11 those relationships to make sure that they can

12 be as successful as possible. 

13 One of my goals as the director of

14 agriculture is something that I hope is one of

15 your goals too, and that is to reconnect

16 people with the source of their food. We have

17 a tremendous challenge there. Less than I

18 think 1 percent of our population has any

19 connection with actual farming so it's a huge

20 challenge. Organics play a huge role in that.

21 Many of our urban cousins want to know where

22 their food comes from so we're enjoying a
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1 renewed interest in the source of food around

2 the country. It's no different here in

3 Washington State. So the decisions you make

4 certainly have an impact on our ability to

5 make that reconnection. And you know, that is

6 so important for a host of reasons, not only

7 for the financial success of our producers but

8 people need to understand the kinds of

9 challenges agriculture faces, whether it's

10 conventional, organic or whatever kind it is.

11 Policies need to be in place locally, at state

12 levels and national levels in order to provide

13 an environment where farmers can continue to

14 be successful. And so having that

15 reconnection will help people understand those

16 challenges and the policymakers then can make

17 the correct decisions when it comes time for

18 agricultural discussions. So it's a very

19 important thing for us to do.

20 I want to thank you folks for your

21 continued efforts to make organics mean

22 something. To continue the integrity of an
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1 organic program is very important. The

2 branding, the marketing tool that it's become

3 is key, it's essential for folks in order for

4 them to be successful. So your efforts to

5 protect that integrity are very, very

6 important. So again, I'd just like to say

7 thank you for coming to the state of

8 Washington, for holding these regional

9 meetings. Again, as evidenced by the standing

10 room only crowd there's a tremendous amount of

11 interest in what you do because it impacts

12 each and every one of us in a variety of ways.

13 I don't know what the kinds of crowds you're

14 seeing in other locations, but I would expect

15 that it would be very, very similar and we

16 encourage you to continue having these kinds

17 of discussions so that we can all participate.

18 So again, welcome to Washington State, I

19 appreciate you being here and hope you can

20 come back and spend lots of money while you're

21 here. So thank you very much.

22 (Applause)
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

2 much, Director Newhouse for that warm and kind

3 welcome to the state of Washington. It is

4 three minutes before 10:00 and we are going to

5 take a 15-minute break which puts us back here

6 in this room at 12 minutes after the hour.

7 And we will start right up as soon as we have

8 quorum and 10 members seated, so we'll start

9 sharply at 10:12 and give a little bit of

10 direction and dive right into public comments.

11 Thanks, everyone.

12 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter

13 went off the record at 9:56 a.m. and resumed

14 at 10:16 a.m.)

15 CHAIR MIEDEMA: We have quorum and

16 we'll go ahead and get started. Will members

17 of the audience please be seated or feel free

18 to carry on those conversations out in the

19 back. All right, thank you everyone. We have

20 now reached the portion of our agenda that is

21 most important and that is our opportunity to

22 hear from the public. When the NOSB is
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1 operating at its best we are a conduit for the

2 organic community to channel information into

3 the rulemaking and decision-making process.

4 Just a few housekeeping notes on how public

5 comment will be run. Public comments are to

6 be limited to three minutes. We will have to

7 kind of give you the hook at the 3-minute mark

8 so try to do your best to stick to that three

9 minutes. We are limiting the NOSB member

10 portion of the repartee to two minutes. And

11 I'd like to just speak hopefully for everyone

12 in the room and say that we absolutely

13 appreciate hearing from every single one of

14 you and it's very kind that so many of you

15 take a moment to thank us for our service. If

16 we could have that be an understood shared

17 appreciation then that would give you all back

18 some time at the podium and that would give us

19 back some time to ask salient questions. NOSB

20 members, I would urge you not to use our very

21 precious bit of time to say that you agree or

22 that you disagree. The purpose of that two
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1 minutes is to ask very distinct clarifying

2 questions that are on the specific material

3 that the commenter presented. We will have an

4 entire day to have our committee discussions

5 and that is really the appropriate time to

6 talk about the topics in general. So let's,

7 you know, take lots of notes on things that we

8 want to bring up on our committee presentation

9 day so that we really stick to - stick to

10 questions. The information about who is up

11 next at the podium is going to be posted on

12 the board here. Lisa Ahramjian is going to be

13 managing that for us. The first name that's

14 at the top of the list is the person speaking.

15 The next name on the list is the person who is

16 standing by. And Lisa, you have something to

17 say.

18 MS. AHRAMJIAN: Unfortunately our

19 projector bulb seems to have expired so we are

20 attempting to resolve that as quickly as

21 possible. So we will have a brief break in

22 projecting and I will just be announcing names
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1 and next up if that's okay with you, Tracy,

2 until we get that fixed.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Yes, that's just

4 fine. Yes, any questions from NOSB?

5 Colehour.

6 MR. BONDERA: I don't exactly

7 apologize, but as a new member I just - and it

8 seems like maybe this is a new process in

9 terms of some of the time issues. Since I'm

10 not familiar with this public comment process

11 I just would like at least for my sake and/or

12 for everybody's sake to better understand what

13 the two minutes for NOSB member discussion

14 and/or questions means in logistical terms.

15 In other words, like you said we could quickly

16 ask a direct question rather than make some

17 comments about something but does that two

18 minutes also include the public speaker's

19 response to those questions in addition to us

20 asking the question? And is that - sorry, the

21 second part of that question is is that two

22 minutes total for all NOSB members or is it
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1 per each person asking a question? So those

2 are unclear details from what you shared that

3 I don't know how to work with yet.

4 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Great questions,

5 Colehour. That two minutes needs to include

6 questions and answers, and we all need to be

7 very economical here. We might be dredging

8 back to our high school debate and coaching in

9 that regard that we put a very fine point on

10 what we're trying to say and just cut right to

11 the chase. So with - okay, another questions.

12 Katrina.

13 MS. HEINZE: And I know we talked

14 about this in the executive committee. I

15 would just ask that where appropriate we have

16 flexibility if there's still information that

17 the board is trying to gather. I get not

18 debate, but responses to questions.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: This will not be

20 monolithic, but it is the protocol for today

21 so let's do our absolute best to you know keep

22 the trains running on time. Lisa, will you
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1 please announce our first public speaker

2 today.

3 MS. AHRAMJIAN: It's - the

4 projector is actually working again, so. But

5 first is Meghann Quinn. On deck is Paige

6 Tomaselli and I apologize in advance for

7 butchering anyone's name.

8 MS. QUINN: All right, everyone

9 ready? My name's Meghann Quinn and I am the

10 executive director of the American Organic Hop

11 Grower Association. I'm here today to give

12 the NOSB and the NOP a quick update on organic

13 hop production. In January the AOHGA

14 distributed its first ever organic hop market

15 report and brewer survey. The report

16 presented information on the NOSB's

17 recommendation, the unsold inventory of

18 certified organic hops and current and

19 projected acreage data. In this report we

20 estimated that while 127 acres of hops were in

21 certified organic production last year, 300

22 acres are certified and available for
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1 production this year and 362 acres will be

2 certified and available for production in

3 2012. One thing I want to make clear is that

4 this additional acreage I mentioned is already

5 certified so the 3-year transition period that

6 some people are concerned with does not apply

7 to this acreage. So that shows that the

8 industry has the potential to triple in size

9 just by 2012. 

10 Along with the report, we sent out

11 an informational brewer survey which gave the

12 brewers an opportunity to let the growers know

13 which varieties they demand and in approximate

14 quantities. We're very pleased with the

15 participation we received and we learned that

16 many of the hop varieties in demand by organic

17 breweries are already being produced

18 organically, such as Cascade, Centennial and

19 Magnum. Now it's just a matter of connecting

20 the supply with the demand. 

21 The spring planting season has

22 already passed, but here are a few things we'd
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1 like to report. Over 50 new acres of

2 certified organic hops were planted this year

3 and many existing acres were converted to

4 varieties in demand. At least eight new

5 varieties were planted this spring including

6 Ahtanum, citrus - sorry, Chinook, Newport,

7 Perle, Simcoe, Sterling and an experimental

8 high alpha variety. These eight varieties

9 will be grown in addition to the plethora of

10 varieties that are already grown organically

11 which includes Cascade, Centennial, Fuggle,

12 Golding, Magnum, Nugget, Palisade, Summit and

13 Willamette just to name a few. 

14 The last thing I want to reiterate

15 is the importance of communication and

16 contracting between grower and brewer.

17 Although the industry has the potential to

18 triple in size before January 1, 2013, it

19 won't without market information being

20 supplied to the growers by the brewers. The

21 only way for the brewers to ensure access to

22 the desired varieties in the proper quantities
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1 is through contracting. We ask that all the

2 certifiers be sure to remind the breweries

3 that they work with of the importance of

4 contracting for their organic hop needs and to

5 make sure the breweries fully understand what

6 this rule change will mean for them. Like

7 we've said before, it's not economically

8 feasible for growers to plant hops solely

9 based on speculation. The dialogue needs to

10 begin now to ensure the desired varieties and

11 quantities are available on January 1, 2013.

12 So lastly we just want to commend

13 the NOSB for recommending the removal of hops

14 from the national list. Although there's

15 still room for improvement your recommendation

16 is already leading to a healthier and more

17 efficient industry. 

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

19 questions for Meghann? Jay.

20 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you, and thank

21 you Meghann for all the work you did leading

22 up to this. I would just like to know if you
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1 could distill for us what the learning

2 experience was in terms of impacting future

3 decisions on shifting synthetics out of

4 organic as a result of commercialization of

5 the organic form. And are there any sort of

6 structural changes, process changes that would

7 have made it easier for the farmers you

8 represent to have made this process smoother

9 and apply it more broadly to other processes

10 in the future?

11 MS. QUINN: You mean the NOSB

12 process? I guess I would just say - I mean

13 the more open the process could have been, the

14 more transparent it all could have been would

15 have made it a lot easier on our end over the

16 last couple of years. Really, it's a very

17 complicated process and so I think that would

18 have helped. Did that answer your question?

19 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any other

21 questions? Thank you, Meghann.

22 MS. QUINN: Thanks.
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up is Paige

2 Tomaselli and standing by is Urvashi Rangan.

3 MS. TOMASELLI: Good morning. My

4 name is Paige Tomaselli and I'm a staff

5 attorney at the Center for Food Safety which

6 is a non-profit organization working to

7 protect human health and the environment by

8 curbing the proliferation of harmful food

9 production technologies and promoting organic

10 and other forms of sustainable agriculture.

11 Our true food network members include over

12 200,000 people across the country who support

13 organic food and farming, grow organic food

14 and regularly purchase organic products. It

15 is essential that the NOSB function in an open

16 and publicly transparent manner regardless of

17 who is on the board or what institution they

18 represent. This maximizes its effectiveness

19 as a respected NOP advisory board. As such,

20 NOSB members who have a financial stake in an

21 issue on the agenda must fully disclose their

22 interest prior to its being discussed and
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1 again prior to its being voted on by the full

2 board. CFS urges NOSB to support the National

3 Organic Coalition's conflict of interest

4 recommendation. 

5 CFS supports the Materials

6 Committee recommendation to sunset

7 streptomycin and deny the petition to remove

8 tetracycline sunset date. Antibiotics are

9 prohibited in organic animal agriculture and

10 we believe it's crucial that the same

11 prohibition apply to produce, especially with

12 the antibiotic resistance epidemic this

13 country now faces. Consumers view organic as

14 a healthy alternative to the many highly

15 processed foods on the market today, many of

16 which contain synthetic additives,

17 preservatives, hormones and dyes. They

18 certainly do not expect the use of antibiotics

19 in organic apple and pear production. After

20 10 years of use in organic it's time to remove

21 them from the national list. We urge you to

22 vote against allowing the extension of
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1 antibiotics in organic. 

2 CFS strongly believes that corn3 steep liquor should be considered a synthetic

4 substance under the organic rules. The

5 addition of the synthetic chemical sulfur

6 dioxide stimulates the desired chemical change

7 in the countercurrent wet milling process of

8 CSL and renders the final product a synthetic.

9 We support the minority report's conclusion

10 that corn steep liquor clearly meets OFPA's

11 definition of synthetic. 

12 CFS does not support the animal

13 welfare recommendations as they do not promote

14 animal welfare. To meet consumer expectations

15 animals must be well fed, healthy, have true

16 access to the outdoors and be raised in an

17 environment that allows them to engage in

18 natural behaviors. This will minimize if not

19 eliminate the need for physical alterations

20 and other inhumane practices currently used to

21 curb aggression in animals. In our detailed

22 written comments CFS provides many
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1 recommendations to improve the draft board

2 recommendations. Most importantly,

3 instituting training programs for animal

4 handlers that perform physical alterations to

5 animals, increasing the stocking rates for

6 animals - for instance, the current

7 regulations allow some chickens to be raised

8 in an area little more than the size of this

9 piece of paper. This is unacceptable. This

10 does not provide enough space for a bird to

11 turn around, let alone spread its wings.

12 Finally, prioritizing enforcement for all

13 welfare standards is crucial. CFS has brought

14 copies of the book Capo for all of the

15 National Organic Standards Board members and

16 we will distribute them to you this week.

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Paige?

18 MS. TOMASELLI: Yes.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Your three minutes

20 is up.

21 MS. TOMASELLI: Oh, that was the

22 last thing I was going to say. We brought
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1 books for you as a gift.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

3 questions for Paige Tomaselli? Thank you.

4 MS. TOMASELLI: Thank you.

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up is Urvashi

6 Rangan.

7 MS. RANGAN: Good morning,

8 everybody. 

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Oh, excuse me,

10 Urvashi. Standing by is Sam Earnshaw. Excuse

11 me, Urvashi, go ahead.

12 MS. RANGAN: No problem. Good

13 morning. My name's Urvashi Rangan, I'm the

14 director of technical policy at Consumers

15 Union. We publish Consumer Reports magazine.

16 I'm a toxicologist. We'd like to extend our

17 welcome to the new board members. We're very

18 excited to have you on the board and I'm going

19 to dive right in. We've been to a lot of

20 these meetings and I want to just start with

21 a couple of top overarching things. This

22 job's board while I appreciate the
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1 clarification that the NOP provided that it is

2 to review materials including synthetic

3 substances, it's also to ensure that within

4 that review consistency of standards and

5 integrity of those standards is maintained

6 over time. We have some concerns in many

7 deliberations that that is not happening

8 especially when it comes to materials review

9 by this board and we want to discuss that a

10 little bit. 

11 We think that materials review

12 needs to have a scientific basis to it so that

13 it can be applied in a consistent fashion. We

14 feel that the deliberations on corn steep

15 liquor have been anything but that. They are

16 not scientific discussions. And when we

17 review the science behind anything we are

18 looking for the independent science behind

19 that, and we rely on that at Consumer Reports

20 in order to inform our decisions. The science

21 that has underwritten the majority opinion

22 deeming corn steep liquor as a non-synthetic
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1 is simply biased scientific opinion. It is

2 not based on the independent scientific

3 opinion that is highlighted in the minority

4 opinion. The fact that you use a synthetic

5 substance and you get a chemical change means

6 that you have a synthetic ingredient. 

7 The fact that this board's had so

8 much trouble classifying that ingredient gives

9 us at Consumers Union a lot of pause and we

10 are really concerned about the deliberations

11 that have been taking place. As a result we

12 are here to inform you all that we want to

13 educate the public on the deliberations going

14 on with this board and as such, after each of

15 these meetings we will be providing more

16 enhanced dissemination to the public about how

17 the board - how the board is voting on these

18 issues, not just as a board but by individuals

19 on the board. And for that I'd like to echo

20 the sentiments generated by the National

21 Organic Coalition and the Center for Food

22 Safety on disclosure of conflicts of interest
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1 in making decisions on the board. The public

2 needs to know that these decisions are being

3 made in the most non-biased fashion possible.

4 Diving into the rest of the

5 issues. In terms of the nutrient supplements

6 it's a little confusing for the public to have

7 this topic be off-deck, on-deck, off-deck. I

8 think it's fine if these are essential

9 nutrients looking as what we had before, that

10 seems fine to Consumers Union. I would just

11 caution though that a lot of those substances

12 are synthetic and if there are natural

13 alternatives available or more organic ones

14 available those incentives should be created

15 over time. So if there's a way to ask for

16 that allowance we would appreciate that.

17 We've made extensive -

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you,

19 Urvashi.

20 MS. RANGAN: - in the written

21 comments. Thank you.

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any questions for
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1 Ms. Rangan? 

2 MS. RANGAN: Thank you.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Next

4 up is Sam Earnshaw and standing by is Joanna

5 Kappele.

6 MR. EARNSHAW: Hello. My name is

7 Sam Earnshaw. I work for the Community

8 Alliance with Family Farmers, a California

9 non-profit. With my wife we farm 10 acres of

10 organic vegetables in Santa Cruz County for

11 over 10 years. I'm here to speak to the issue

12 of biodiversity in organic farming. As you

13 know, in 2009 the NOSB recommended to the

14 National Organic Program that biodiversity

15 conservation be fully implemented in the

16 organic system plan, such implementation

17 requiring action by farmers, inspectors,

18 certifiers and trainers. We all know there's

19 a global biodiversity crisis and agriculture

20 with its large footprint on the land has the

21 capability of mitigating this crisis by

22 providing an actual land base to increase
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1 biodiversity. This does not mean taking

2 farmland out of production. Every farm has

3 non-cropped areas where hedgerows, wind

4 breaks, the grassed waterways, filter strips

5 and - can be planted. 

6 Increasing biodiversity equally

7 contributes to the health and resilience in

8 many well-documented and scientifically

9 studied ways. Since 1996 we have installed

10 over 200 miles of hedgerows, wind breaks,

11 grassed waterways and filter strips on farms.

12 In conjunction with these plantings we have

13 conducted biodiversity farm plans with over 50

14 farmers and they all are very positive and

15 interested and excited about how their farms

16 were and could be part of larger local and

17 regional ecosystems and equally how their

18 farms would benefit from increasing

19 biodiversity. I have many stories to tell

20 about how farmers have sometimes joyously

21 reacted to the addition of this biodiversity

22 to their farms and to their lives. Habitat
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1 brings beneficial insects, pollinators,

2 insect-eating birds, rodent-eating snakes,

3 coyotes and raptors, not to mention a more

4 diversified landscape that protects soil,

5 water and air resources. While the food

6 safety issue has presented challenges of

7 perception, scientific studies are showing

8 that conservation plantings can filter and

9 neutralize air and water-borne pathogens and

10 thus lead to a healthier and more safe

11 environment not provided by sterile, scorched12 earth farmscapes. Additionally, consumers

13 expect organic farming to have biodiversity

14 and expect what is in the rule to be

15 implemented. 

16 So in conclusion we have seen

17 farmers be positive and enthusiastic about

18 incorporating biodiversity into their systems

19 and we encourage you, the NOSB, to keep the

20 implementation of biodiversity conservation as

21 a priority issue. You are welcome to contact

22 me through the CAFF website, caff.org, if you
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1 have any - if you need any further information

2 or inputs. Thank you.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Mr.

4 Earnshaw. Any questions? Is Joanna Kappele

5 in the galley? Okay. Next up - excuse me,

6 Lisa?

7 MS. AHRAMJIAN: I just want to

8 remind everyone that when the person before

9 you is speaking please come up and sit next to

10 me so that we reduce time between comments.

11 Thank you.

12 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next at the podium

13 then is Will Fantle and standing by is Deborah

14 Carter. Please proceed, Mr. Fantle.

15 MR. FANTLE: My name is Will

16 Fantle. I am the co-director of the

17 Cornucopia Institute. We're based in

18 Wisconsin. We have a national membership

19 consisting primarily of farmers, most of those

20 being organic farmers and their consumer

21 allies that support them in their activities.

22 First, I just have to say I'm a little bit
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1 disappointed and distressed by the reductions

2 in time that's being allotted and provided to

3 everyone. You've heard people speed up their

4 testimony to try and get it in. I'm sure you

5 find that helping you comprehend what's being

6 said. I think it's important that the board

7 receive meaningful testimony and I'm not going

8 to suggest that I'm the only one or would be

9 one of those presenting that. I think all the

10 public has the ability to do that. I'd like

11 to see you have time to digest and factor that

12 in.

13 That said I want to go first to

14 salmonella and the poultry issue. I want to

15 address the regulation that was released by

16 the FDA as it pertains to poultry. And in

17 that regulation which was published in the

18 Federal Register and we will be providing that

19 particular citation to you. I don't have the

20 full text with me. The preamble says

21 referring to stray animals, the potential to

22 infect poultry operations, "Therefore, in the
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1 final rule we have changed the requirement for

2 stray animals so that it applies only to

3 poultry houses rather than the entire

4 grounds." Important distinction. I think

5 that's very important for the discussion that

6 you're going to be having on the poultry

7 issue, particularly as some of the larger

8 growers as we suspect will try to use that

9 rule to argue against outdoor access for

10 poultry.

11 Secondly, I want to talk about

12 briefly the rule change or the change that we

13 suggested to the NOP and to you for

14 mislabeling of products that has occurred in

15 the marketplace. We in particular looked at

16 one product this year that we found multiple

17 instances of retail establishments still

18 selling this product labeled on their shelves

19 as organic. It was no longer organic, hadn't

20 been for several years. We are suggesting

21 that a UPC bar code change be mandated and

22 required for product manufacturers when they
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1 exit the organic business so that retailers

2 are alerted to that. It's not up to the

3 retailer to figure that out, it's up to the

4 product manufacturer to make that clear to

5 retailers. This will ensure consumer

6 confidence when they go into stores that

7 they're purchasing a product that is truly

8 organic and not something that is pretending

9 to be organic. 

10 Third thing I want to comment on

11 is the analysis that we have done which I

12 provided to you which has been passed around

13 of the large volume of public comments that

14 were received in advance of this meeting. It

15 caused the Handling Committee to pull the

16 nutrients recommendation from the agenda and -

17

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Mr. Fantle, that's

19 three minutes. Thank you.

20 MR. FANTLE: Okay. Please review

21 this.

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Does anyone have a
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1 question for Mr. Fantle? Katrina?

2 MS. HEINZE: I was reading what

3 you had handed us as you were talking. Am I

4 understanding correctly that you would support

5 re-listing of nutrient vitamins and minerals

6 as it is on the list right now?

7 MR. FANTLE: Well, we are

8 interested in potentially exploring options

9 that may include an annotation and I'm going

10 to defer that question to be answered by one

11 of our staff members who will be testifying

12 later. She has been addressing and

13 researching this issue.

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Jay?

15 MR. FELDMAN: Will, I wanted to

16 ask you to comment on something Urvashi Rangan

17 said about the availability of non-synthetic

18 forms of any of these nutrients or vitamins.

19 As far as I can tell the proposal before us

20 doesn't differentiate between synthetic and

21 non-synthetic. Are you - do you concur with

22 her comment? Do you have any thoughts on
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1 that?

2 MR. FANTLE: Well, we clearly

3 think that synthetics need to be reviewed.

4 And in particular, the one material that we

5 have been talking so much about, one approved

6 synthetic that we suggest is - and know is in

7 some organic products. These are the types of

8 concerns we have that we want you and the NOP

9 to look closely at these materials to assure

10 and verify that they are appropriate for use

11 in organics.

12 MR. FELDMAN: Just a follow-up.

13 In the case where we're depending on these

14 citations, fortification rules that FDA has

15 established, FDA doesn't distinguish between

16 synthetic and non-synthetic. In those

17 categories do you think the board should be

18 distinguishing?

19 MR. FANTLE: And again I'm going

20 to defer that to our staff member who will be

21 coming up later who was looking at that list

22 and - last night in advance of this meeting.
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Mr.

2 Fantle. And all NOSB members, please make

3 sure you wait to be recognized before asking

4 any follow-up questions, just so that we give

5 everybody a chance. Next up. Lisa, may I see

6 the list? We won't count this on your time.

7 MS. CARTER: Thank you.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up is Deborah

9 Carter. Standing by is Leika Suzumura.

10 MS. CARTER: I'm Deborah Carter,

11 Northwest Horticultural Council of Yakima,

12 Washington and I represent about a thousand

13 organic growers and shippers of apples and

14 pears from California, Idaho, Oregon, New York

15 and Washington. And they're a part of about

16 15 different fruit organizations, including

17 U.S. Apple Association which is a national

18 organization representing 40 states. The five

19 states that I mentioned are about 93 percent

20 of the pounds of organic apples and 94 percent

21 of the organic pears grown in the United

22 States. 
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1 I just want to make three quick

2 points. Number one, the decision to remove

3 tetracycline from the organic list has put the

4 new variety apples and pears, all variety of

5 pears in jeopardy. Antibiotics do not end up

6 in the fruit and fire blight does not affect

7 just one tree. If unchecked it will destroy

8 an entire orchard and you'll see that in these

9 pictures. I wish it was clearer for you

10 because you'll see hundreds of acres that are

11 burned from fire blight. It's been suggested

12 that the industry should use fire blight13 resistant root stocks. Well, they're not

14 commercially available, nor are they the

15 immediate answer. Resistance does not mean

16 that it will stop fire blight. There's

17 millions of dollars that have gone into the

18 research by the industry and the USDA over 20

19 years and there hasn't been a commercial root

20 stock produced. In an economy that we're

21 having now we would not want to wait four to

22 seven years to get a paycheck and that's
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1 what's going to happen if some of these

2 organic growers have to do without

3 tetracycline. If it is a severe fire blight

4 year, if there's a severe strike, organic

5 orchards will likely have to go commercial and

6 save their livelihood.

7 The second point I want to make is

8 that research is not - has not identified a

9 commercially viable alternative to

10 oxytetracycline after working on fire blight

11 for over 20 years. You're going to hear later

12 on today from researchers who have the most

13 experience in fire blight throughout the

14 country and they can scientifically verify

15 that there are not any commercially available

16 alternatives. And what's important about it

17 is that conventional and organic growers have

18 paid for research in the area to treat fire

19 blight and nothing has been identified in 20

20 years. And finally what I want to tell you is

21 that there is not a viable alternative to

22 oxytetracycline that is commercially available
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1 to control fire blight. The science has

2 spoken, the grower industry has spoken,

3 oxytetracycline is required to treat fire

4 blight. Antibiotics to treat fire blight are

5 only used under high risk, high fire blight

6 conditions. They're not used carelessly or

7 without forethought and organic growers are

8 intelligent, thoughtful of their environment

9 and careful with their resources. So

10 therefore we request the NOSB remove the

11 expiration date from tetracycline and

12 reinstate to the product - to the national

13 list. Thank you.

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you,

15 Deborah. I have a question. What does fire

16 blight do to organic apple and pear trees?

17 MS. CARTER: It's not just

18 organic, it's conventional and organic pears.

19 It's an infection. It gets into the flower,

20 actually gets into the flower of the tree and

21 will actually - it's a systemic bacteria and

22 will actually go all the way through the tree
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1 and will kill the entire tree. And if you saw

2 some of those pictures it'll start at the top

3 where the infection takes place and it'll work

4 its way through the branches all the way into

5 the tree. It'll totally kill the entire

6 orchard. And you'll see two, three, four

7 hundred acres of orchards that are dead from

8 fire blight.

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Jay

10 Feldman?

11 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you. 

12 MS. CARTER: Yes.

13 MR. FELDMAN: And know that I

14 think everybody on this board wants to find a

15 solution to this. 

16 MS. CARTER: Absolutely.

17 MR. FELDMAN: I - my question goes

18 to the use of streptomycin. Why is

19 streptomycin no longer used in the Northwest?

20 What happened to that use as an effective

21 tool, I understand, for fire blight control?

22 MS. CARTER: Not as a researcher,
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1 but I'm going to leave that - defer that to

2 one of the researchers, but I can tell you

3 that many chemicals become resistant to a

4 variety of pests and that's what's happened

5 with streptomycin. It has become resistant.

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Nick Maravell?

7 MR. MARAVELL: Yes, I had a

8 question.

9 MS. CARTER: Yes.

10 MR. MARAVELL: Yes, I was

11 wondering if you had a little bit more

12 detailed information about the research that

13 has been conducted over the past 20 years and

14 how much has been spent on it from the various

15 sectors that are involved in this question.

16 And if you don't have that right available you

17 can supply it later.

18 MS. CARTER: I don't have that

19 available, but there are two researchers

20 coming on later who have been working 20 years

21 with fire blight. They will have that

22 information for you. Thank you.
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1 MR. MARAVELL: Thank you.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Ms.

3 Carter. Next up is Leika Suzumura. And my

4 apologies in advance to any of you I

5 mispronounce your name. Is Leika Suzumura in

6 the room?

7 MS. CAUGHLIN: She is not and I

8 believe there was a mixup in terms of her

9 understanding of when she was scheduled, but

10 I'll have to see if I can -

11 CHAIR MIEDEMA: We can make

12 accommodations if there was a mixup. Next up

13 would be Robin Shurtleff. Next up, David

14 Bruce. And standing by is Buzz Hoffard.

15 MR. BRUCE: All right, thanks for

16 this opportunity. My name is David Bruce and

17 I work for Crop Cooperative where we market

18 eggs for 78 farmers from Organic Valley

19 ranging in size of flocks from 650 to 16,000.

20 We've always been strong supporters of

21 meaningful outdoor access for poultry. Our

22 policy from the beginning of our program in
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1 1994 has been 5 square feet outdoors per bird

2 in the Midwest and the East. In the West

3 we've modified our proposal and gone with the

4 NOP standard because other elements of the

5 housing out there and the conditions provide

6 for excellent animal welfare. 

7 We've been at the table for this

8 discussion on organic poultry outdoor access

9 since 1993. We understand the complexities of

10 disease risk, environmental impact and manure

11 management. Just as the ruminant pasture

12 standard illustrates, there's no one-size13 fits-all solution, and yet certainly there's

14 a minimum threshold for all organic egg

15 producers so that we can differentiate organic

16 eggs in the marketplace. We believe outdoor

17 access for laying hens means outside on the

18 ground scratching and pecking. 

19 That being said we feel strongly

20 that the current animal welfare proposal from

21 the Livestock Committee contains language that

22 is far too prescriptive. The paperwork burden
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1 on organic farmers today has already gone too

2 great. Some certification forms are

3 approaching 60 pages. The proposal on the

4 table from the Livestock Committee sets a

5 precedent we're not comfortable with with

6 again much too detailed information

7 requirements that further lead to constraints

8 on farmers so that they can't make the choices

9 in daily management that they need to. We

10 encourage the withdrawal of the current

11 Livestock Committee proposal in consultation

12 with farmers, scientists and the human animal

13 welfare community in order to develop

14 standards that reflect the realities of

15 production agriculture while holding the

16 highest organic integrity as our constant

17 goal. Particularly in light of the FDA's

18 salmonella control guidelines that will

19 require further clarity on how to maintain

20 food safety controls in the context of organic

21 management systems, we would ask an advisory

22 group of organic egg producers work hand-in-
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1 hand with the NOSB, the NOP and the FDA.

2 Scientists and all - and experienced organic

3 egg producers can work cooperatively together

4 to carefully develop language that will

5 provide a stable platform going forward.

6 Thank you.

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

8 much, Mr. Bruce. Any questions? Joe Dickson.

9 MR. DICKSON: Hey. You mentioned

10 that the Livestock recommendation was far too

11 prescriptive and I'm just curious are there

12 specific parts of it that you feel are too

13 prescriptive? Is it about the specific

14 stocking densities, or are there other issues

15 you have?

16 MR. BRUCE: Stocking densities in

17 particular, yes.

18 MR. DICKSON: Thank you.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any other

20 questions? Thank you. Next up, Buzz Hoffard

21 and standing by is Don Gibson.

22 MR. HOFFARD: Is it too late for a
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1 visual?

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Let's go ahead and

3 switch their order if you don't mind, if you

4 have something that needs to be loaded.

5 MR. HOFFARD: Sure.

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay. Mr. Gibson,

7 would you be ready to go ahead and switch

8 places with Mr. Hoffard? You have a slide?

9 Okay. Folks, if you have materials that need

10 to be loaded to a computer please bring those

11 to Lisa at the next break or kind of creep up

12 here and do that, please. And in the meantime

13 I'd like to go ahead even one more person.

14 Can - Lisa, can you put the list back up? 

15 MS. AHRAMJIAN: After Don Gibson

16 was Patrick Leavy.

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Patrick Leavy, are

18 you ready? Okay. Patrick Leavy is going to

19 go ahead and come on up to the podium while

20 the two gentlemen - okay. Come on up. You

21 can stand by.

22 MR. GIBSON: I believe it was
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1 scheduled for 11:20.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Yes, and for

3 everyone in the gallery here, we're doing our

4 best to be precise but please know that your

5 comment can run in a pretty big window of when

6 you were confirmed.

7 MR. GIBSON: Perfect.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Okay,

9 so just to make sure we know who we're

10 speaking with please do introduce yourself so

11 we have it on the record.

12 MR. GIBSON: Okay. My name is Don

13 Gibson. I'm here to request that the board

14 remove the expiration date from tetracycline

15 and reinstate it on the product - reinstate

16 this product on the national list. Next

17 slide, please.

18 I'm an orchardist, an owner of a

19 pear orchard north of White Salmon, along the

20 White Salmon River. We've been farming 168

21 acres of organic pears since about 1998. I

22 believe it's about - that includes the three
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1 years of transition. Our company has been

2 sustainably farming the same orchard since the

3 1940s. Next slide, please. Many of our trees

4 are over a hundred years old. The orchard was

5 originally planted in 1905 through 1907. The

6 trees here in this picture are over a hundred

7 years old. Next slide, please. Our

8 environment is unique. As the pictures show,

9 which will be the next slide, we're surrounded

10 by fir trees and forest. It is a wet

11 environment. It is humid. It is one of the

12 reasons that we can grow the quality of pears

13 that store well and don't have calcium

14 deficiencies and other disorders is because of

15 the Hood River and White Salmon districts have

16 some climatic advantages. But one of the

17 disadvantages is our susceptibility to fire

18 blight. Next slide. In 1987 we were using

19 streptomycin, only streptomycin and we lost

20 over one-third of our acreage to fire blight

21 infection. I don't know if you can see there

22 but there's some major areas that were pulled
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1 out and as a result - next slide please - just

2 a little bit of information. 

3 Every 10 acres of organic pear

4 production equals a full-time job. That's

5 about 17 jobs in our local economy related to

6 the organic production. The cost to replace

7 a Bartlett pear orchard is now estimated to be

8 over $28,000 per acre. That's per the WSU

9 2010 cost study. It takes seven to eight

10 years for a modern pear orchard to reach full

11 production and profitability. Next slide. We

12 have new yeasts to control fire blight being

13 tested that are promising. However, we cannot

14 put at risk our $28,000 per acre investment in

15 the interim. We rely on tetracycline for

16 consistent fire blight control. Next slide.

17 Without the use of tetracycline we do not plan

18 to farm organically in 2012. The risk of tree

19 loss is simply too great. Again, a request

20 that the board remove the expiration date for

21 tetracycline and reinstate this product on the

22 national list. Yes, sir?
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Excuse me. Does

2 anyone have any questions? Nick.

3 MR. GIBSON: Shoot.

4 MR. MARAVELL: Yes. What other

5 crops, if any, do you produce or is it all in

6 pears so this would affect your entire -

7 MR. GIBSON: Cherries, apples and

8 pears. It would also affect our apple trees

9 as well. But pears are our biggest concern.

10 MR. MARAVELL: Thank you.

11 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Jay Feldman.

12 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you. You

13 became certified in 1998 or started

14 transitioning?

15 MR. GIBSON: I think transitioned

16 about '98.

17 MR. FELDMAN: And this, the fire

18 blight that wiped you out was before that

19 transition, right? 1987?

20 MR. GIBSON: It was conventional

21 use but we were using streptomycin at the

22 time.
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1 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. In that time

2 frame how many new trees have you planted, do

3 you figure, out of your orchard? What

4 percentage?

5 MR. GIBSON: In the organic area,

6 I would guess that with our tetracycline

7 control it's been very few. Most of that

8 orchard is older orchard but we are - we do

9 have younger, new trees which are more

10 susceptible.

11 MR. FELDMAN: I was going to ask

12 you do - I'm sorry. Can I ask these follow13 ups?

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Please proceed.

15 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you. I was

16 going to ask you if you saw a difference

17 between the younger trees and the older trees

18 in terms of susceptibility.

19 MR. GIBSON: Absolutely. Every

20 growth union from one year to the next create

21 a barrier of sorts. So a one-year-old tree is

22 more susceptible than a two-year-old tree and
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1 subsequently.

2 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any other

4 questions from the NOSB? Thank you very much.

5 MR. GIBSON: Thank you.

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay, next up is

7 Buzz Hoffard. And Patrick Leavy is standing

8 by.

9 MR. HOFFARD: Good morning. My

10 name is Buzz Hoffard. I'm speaking as a

11 trustee for PCC Natural Markets, a certified

12 organic chain of nine stores here in the Puget

13 Sound area and the largest consumer-owned

14 natural foods co-op in the country. In

15 addition to representing 47,000 active members

16 we also serve more than 100,000 customers a

17 week. As leaders of Salmon Nation we ask you

18 to revise your previous recommendations for

19 organic aquiculture, prohibit certification of

20 carnivorous migratory species and limit

21 certification to closed land-based systems

22 with vegetarian diets. Fish that spend their
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1 lives in floating ocean feed lots suffer

2 unhealthy conditions just like cattle in CAFOs

3 and chickens in battery cages. Most ocean

4 fish have strong instinctual drives. Wild

5 salmon migrate thousands of miles before

6 returning to the streams of their birth.

7 Confining these fish in cages prevents them

8 from exercising their natural behaviors,

9 violating a core organic principle. Organic

10 standards also prohibit antibiotics, yet

11 aquiculture today consumes more antibiotics

12 per pound than any other feed lot industry.

13 CAFOs at sea are no healthier than those on

14 land. The board's recommendation would

15 encourage aquiculture to continue harvesting

16 enormous volumes of wild fish for feed. This

17 practice is both ecologically unsustainable

18 and unhealthy for consumers. Feed pellets

19 made of wild fish contain high concentrations

20 of PCBs, dioxins and other contaminants which

21 are then passed on to consumers. These

22 chemical contaminants further violate organic
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1 principles. 

2 Floating feed lots violate the

3 organic principle of protecting the natural

4 environment by annually flushing millions of

5 pounds of unfiltered fish waste directly into

6 surrounding marine environments. Salmon farms

7 expose wild salmon to diseases and parasites,

8 threatening their survival. Every year

9 scientists report elevated levels of sea lice

10 on wild juvenile salmon near salmon farms

11 resulting in declining populations of wild

12 native species. Native fish like our prized

13 wild salmon already struggle for survival

14 against ever-increasing environmental threats.

15 Fish farms threaten the long-term viability of

16 these populations. We strongly encourage you

17 to prohibit certifying migratory carnivorous

18 fish and limit certification to fish raised in

19 closed land-based systems with vegetarian

20 diets. Thank you very much.

21 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Mr.

22 Hoffard. Any questions? Next up is Mr.
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1 Leavy. Standing by is Charlotte Vallaeys.

2 MR. LEAVY: Thank you. My name is

3 Pat Leavy and I'm with the American Organic

4 Hop Growers Association. Just wanted to make

5 a quick comment that I appreciate the comment

6 period and I know that the hop growers

7 benefitted greatly from that system and would

8 hope that physically you guys can withstand

9 that system. As far as the openness that Jay,

10 you mentioned the question, I think it is

11 critical that things are done in the open. I

12 think it helps everybody to understand the

13 decisions and it also helps you improve your

14 position if something didn't go your way. You

15 would understand why and what the industry or

16 what somebody would need to do. I agree that

17 - I think Jay alluded a little bit to I think

18 subcommittee minutes should be available to

19 the public. I think that's also critical to

20 the process. 

21 One other thing as far as when you

22 do file a petition and it has an impact on
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1 business which I think most of this ultimately

2 that your decisions, many have impacts,

3 economic impacts on businesses. And in this

4 process with hops of talking about the supply

5 and all that, of course there are people who

6 disagree with you. So many times I think the

7 petitioners - to remove especially - do have

8 some blowback in the marketplace. There are

9 people who are not happy with me because of

10 what I was involved with. So I appreciate the

11 time and I know that it's difficult to do all

12 this, to create the letter of the law that

13 handles all situations. Thank you.

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any questions for

15 Patrick Leavy? Okay. Next up is Charlotte

16 Vallaeys and standing by is Leika Suzumura.

17 MS. VALLAEYS: Good morning. My

18 name is Charlotte Vallaeys. I'm director of

19 farm and food policy at the Cornucopia

20 Institute. I would like to comment about

21 nutrient vitamins and minerals. We do

22 encourage the board to re-list nutrient
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1 vitamins and minerals. We do, however, feel

2 that a very specific annotation is necessary

3 so that certifiers know exactly what falls

4 under this - this - the rule. And therefore

5 we have suggested the following annotation.

6 Vitamins and essential minerals restricted to

7 vitamins identified in 21 CFR 107.100 and

8 essential minerals identified in 21 CFR

9 101.9(c)(8)(4). So these are specific tables

10 that list specific minerals and vitamins so

11 that everybody can be on the same page about

12 what can be in organics. We also suggest

13 adding in nutrients that are required in

14 infant formula limited to those under 21 CFR

15 107.100(a). So again, that would ensure that

16 an organic infant formula has all of the

17 nutrients that are required by the FDA to be

18 in infant formula.

19 We are very concerned with the

20 lack of enforcement. Currently there are

21 products on market shelves that have the

22 organic label containing substances that have
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1 never been reviewed by the board and approved,

2 and that's a serious concern for the organic

3 integrity and consumer trust in the organic

4 label. They expect when they buy something

5 with the label that it - that everything in

6 there has been - if it's synthetic has been

7 reviewed and approved. There is nothing in

8 the law that protects people who are violating

9 the organic standards from being protected

10 from enforcement action. So we urge immediate

11 enforcement action, especially given the FDA

12 clarification letter which makes it very clear

13 that the current rule can be enforced. 

14 Finally, I'd like to address the

15 Martec petition to add DHA and ARA. This is

16 a perfect example of a substance that needs to

17 be reviewed before it is put in organics. We

18 have serious concerns. We urge the Handling

19 Committee and the board to look at the adverse

20 reaction reports that have been filed with the

21 FDA. There are consumers, in this case

22 babies, who get sick from consuming these.
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1 That's a serious concern and needs to be

2 addressed. There are alternatives to these

3 substances. They don't have to be these novel

4 algae that are very highly processed.

5 And last we - I'll just end it

6 right here.

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Ms.

8 Vallaeys. Any questions? Katrina.

9 MS. HEINZE: I wanted to get your

10 perspective. One of the things that the

11 Handling Committee has discussed is the fact

12 that we posted that we weren't going to vote

13 on nutrient vitamins and minerals and

14 obviously transparency is a really important

15 goal of ours. We did that because at the time

16 we were under the impression that there would

17 be enough time if we voted in November. So as

18 an advocate for consumers what are your

19 thoughts if we did vote at this meeting to re20 list and then what would be your thoughts if

21 we voted with an annotation such as the one

22 that you proposed? I think we're very
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1 concerned about making sure that we do the

2 process right so that we are transparent. So

3 I thought as a consumer advocate you could

4 perhaps give us your perspective on that.

5 MS. VALLAEYS: Right. So, we

6 would support re-listing with the current

7 annotation because given the FDA clarification

8 letter that has come in it's very clear in

9 there that, for example, DHA and ARA are not

10 essential nutrients covered under 104.20. So

11 given that letter by the FDA we would support

12 re-listing and then - but we would expect

13 enforcement action. That's the missing key.

14 I mean, that's the missing part of this is

15 that there is no enforcement action. And we

16 would also support re-listing with the

17 annotation that I read which is another very

18 clear example of a list by the FDA of

19 essential nutrient vitamins and minerals.

20 Does that answer your question?

21 CHAIR MIEDEMA: I'm going to take

22 Jay Feldman's question next.
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1 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you. Again, a

2 follow-up. Urvashi Rangan mentioned that

3 there should be some considerations as to the

4 source of the nutrient or the vitamin, and if

5 organic or non-synthetic forms were available

6 they should be considered. Are you concerned

7 that if we simply cite in an annotation a CFR

8 notice that we would then escape or we would

9 waive the responsibility to evaluate the

10 availability of non-synthetic forms?

11 MS. VALLAEYS: Yes, I mean that's

12 certainly a concern. We would expect

13 processors to look for natural sources, but

14 given that it is a very restricted list, just

15 vitamins and minerals, it doesn't open the

16 door to other sources, to other nutrients. So

17 since those all would have to be individually

18 petitioned I think it would be the board's

19 responsibility to reject petitions of

20 nutrients that are synthetic but that are

21 available in natural form. 

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Ms.
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1 Vallaeys.

2 MS. VALLAEYS: Thank you.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up is Leika

4 Suzumura. Katrina. We'll catch it at the

5 Handling Committee discussion. Standing by is

6 David Granatstein.

7 MS. SUZUMURA: Good morning, my

8 name is Leika Suzumura and I'm here speaking

9 as a consumer. I'm also a registered

10 dietician. I'm a community nutrition educator

11 for PCC and I'm also a mother and that's I

12 think the biggest stance that I have here

13 today. So I want to thank you for this time

14 to come and listen to our comments. 

15 I want to speak specifically about

16 synthetic additives in organics as well as the

17 nanotechnology. And I would say that the

18 biggest reason why I personally choose to

19 support organics and eat organics is because

20 I trust the food that I'm eating, and I think

21 it's because the base principle that organics

22 is really put on is what nature has always
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1 provided us and I trust that. And when it

2 comes to synthetic additives and particularly

3 the Martec additives in the baby formula I'm

4 very concerned that it didn't necessarily go

5 through the process that it needs to to ensure

6 that it's safe and really falls under the

7 standards of organics, and so that when a

8 mother is going to choose that to give to

9 their baby that it is something that she can

10 trust is going to be safe. And I think from

11 the research that's been done and some of the

12 effects that we've seen that it is not

13 necessarily safe, and especially when it's

14 being put under organic. So I would really

15 highly encourage you to reconsider how those

16 synthetics are added in and that the proper

17 testing is done and the procedure that is

18 taken to do that. 

19 And as far as nanotechnology I

20 also have a lot of concerns there, again,

21 looking at the principle of trust and looking

22 at nature as our way to really show us what
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1 has been safe throughout time and knowing that

2 things do change of course and the

3 complications of organics is that there do

4 need to be rules and regulations. But as an

5 educator in the community a lot of people look

6 to us to give them education about what is and

7 is not safe and that many, many people are

8 concerned about organics. And nanotechnology

9 is one of those things that many people don't

10 know about and I think it's because there's

11 not any labeling about that. And I don't feel

12 that it's safe, that we know that the long13 term testing has really shown that it's safe.

14 And in particular, something like titanium

15 oxide where, granted you know nano particles

16 is something in nature no doubt, but when we

17 create something to be that small we don't

18 know how that's going to affect the cells on

19 a very nuclear level and that is something

20 that I don't feel is safe under organics

21 especially, and that if it is going to be

22 something that is included that we need to
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1 have safety tests as well as proper labeling

2 so that people understand what they are and

3 are not consuming. So I appreciate you

4 considering these issues and as a mother I

5 really trust and look to organics as a way not

6 only for my children to be safe but also my

7 great-great-great-grandchildren. And I trust

8 that every time that we make these decisions

9 that we're not just thinking about ourselves

10 and our children because we can't necessarily

11 always say our children are the leaders of

12 tomorrow because we still have to live today,

13 and that is what we need to look at in all the

14 safety issues right now. So thank you for

15 your time and I appreciate it.

16 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any questions for

17 Leika? Thank you. And I inadvertently jumped

18 and skipped right ahead to Leika. We still

19 had one more question for Charlotte Vallaeys.

20 If you would be willing to come back up to the

21 podium for one brief question from one NOSB

22 member? Thanks.
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1 MS. HEINZE: Thank you, Tracy.

2 Thank you, Charlotte. You didn't exactly

3 answer my question. 

4 MS. VALLAEYS: Okay.

5 MS. HEINZE: What I was trying to

6 understand is if you had any concerns if we

7 handled the re-list or the annotation change

8 at this meeting given that we had said we were

9 taking it off the table.

10 MS. VALLAEYS: You mean

11 procedurally?

12 MS. HEINZE: Transparency-wise.

13 MS. VALLAEYS: We would be okay

14 with that.

15 MS. HEINZE: Thanks.

16 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay. Next up is

17 David Granatstein and standing by is Phaedra

18 Morrill.

19 MR. GRANATSTEIN: Good morning. I

20 do have some slides if you want to watch them

21 while I speak. My name is David Granatstein.

22 I'm with the Center for Sustaining Agriculture
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1 and Natural Resources at Washington State

2 University where I work extensively with

3 organic fruit producers. I've been involved

4 with organic agriculture since 1975. 

5 Organic fruit growers in the U.S.

6 have expanded their production to meet the

7 steadily growing demand for organic fruit.

8 With the help of new technologies such as

9 pheromones as well as older tools like

10 oxytetracycline. The allowance for antibiotic

11 use on fire blight in organic apple and pear

12 production as part of the national list has

13 been very important for these producers. This

14 bacterial disease which is native to North

15 America is not well controlled by other

16 materials and can devastate an orchard as

17 you've heard. Next slide, please. Truly

18 resistant commercial varieties do not exist.

19 Red Delicious apple is perhaps the least

20 susceptible of the varieties but still suffers

21 45 to 65 percent infection of blossoms if

22 untreated. All pears and newer apple
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1 varieties are more susceptible than Red

2 Delicious. In Washington, 90 percent of

3 organic apple acres are other than Red

4 Delicious. They are the newer, more

5 susceptible varieties because that's what

6 consumers are interested in buying. Breeding

7 for fire blight resistance is under way but it

8 will be years until a new variety is available

9 and likely the use of biotechnology in the

10 process may prohibit some of these varieties

11 from being accessible to organic growers.

12 Common dwarfing apple root stock such as

13 Malling 9 which are the most common root stock

14 used in modern orchards are also highly

15 susceptible to fire blight, making it more

16 likely that a blossom infection will kill the

17 entire tree. Geneva series root stocks do

18 have considerable resistance to fire blight

19 but they are not yet commercially available.

20 Next slide.

21 Researchers have been developing

22 potential bio controls for fire blight since
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1 the 1980s but so far these products have not

2 had the efficacy of antibiotics. A new yeast

3 bio control agent from Europe shows promise

4 but it needs extensive testing, it needs EPA

5 registration and grower training. In a survey

6 that I did of organic orchardists, 80 percent

7 said they could not control fire blight

8 without oxytetracycline in a severe infection

9 year, and a similar number plan to exit or

10 reduce their organic apple and pear production

11 once oxytetracycline is no longer available.

12 Since other regions such as South America and

13 Australia do not have fire blight a likely

14 consequence of the loss of oxytetracycline

15 without a suitable alternative will be

16 increased reliance on imports. So given the

17 risk - next slide please - that fire blight

18 poses I request that oxytetracycline be re19 listed and considered under the sunset process

20 as other materials are. Next slide. Next

21 after that also. 

22 I also support the continued
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1 listing of pheromones for insect control and

2 the use of fabric mulches for weed control.

3 Fabrics and perennial crops provide a viable

4 alternative to tillage which degrades soil

5 quality and damages crop roots. Fabrics are

6 increasingly used by our organic producers and

7 can last 10 to 15 years. Thank you.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Mr.

9 Granatstein. Any questions? Steve.

10 MR. DEMURI: We've heard from a

11 couple of you now that there's some promising

12 research under way. How much longer do you

13 think you need past the 2012 date in the

14 regulations?

15 MR. GRANATSTEIN: Dr. Ken Johnson

16 will address that later, but it is promising.

17 Other materials that have been developed were

18 promising but were not stand-alone

19 replacements and that's the issue why we need

20 the testing. So you know, we can say two to

21 three years but it could turn out that it's

22 not a viable solution.
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Nick?

2 MR. MARAVELL: Yes. What's the

3 source of the funding for the research and how

4 much do you feel that there's been adequate

5 funding for research into alternatives?

6 MR. GRANATSTEIN: A good share of

7 the research has been on biological control.

8 Again, Ken Johnson can address that because

9 that's specifically his field. The research

10 is a mix of USDA funds and probably in

11 Washington State we do have some state - some

12 funds from the grower through the Tree Fruit

13 Research Commission which is a grower-funded

14 organization in which organic growers also

15 contribute.

16 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Colehour?

17 MR. BONDERA: David, I'd just like

18 to ask you to briefly address the question

19 that we've heard before of resistance

20 regarding these antibiotics.

21 MR. GRANATSTEIN: I'm going to

22 defer to Ken Johnson who has much more
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1 expertise than I do on that subject.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Jay Feldman.

3 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you. In terms

4 of the research on alternative varieties, both

5 cultivars and root stocks, what - we in the

6 committee that looked at this were looking at

7 data coming out of Purdue University and a

8 number of varieties were listed as highly

9 resistant, including a number of the

10 Jonathans. We have a long list of them

11 actually which we'll talk about tomorrow I

12 guess. Is this your primary research that

13 you're citing or - in Washington State on

14 different varieties and susceptibility? Or

15 are you citing the literature?

16 MR. GRANATSTEIN: No, what I'm

17 citing is our apple breeder who I spoke to in

18 advance of this meeting to get her

19 understanding of the current state of

20 availability. And her reply was yes, there's

21 been a lot of work done but virtually all the

22 varieties that have come out are inedible or
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1 unacceptable to the marketplace. That's been

2 the struggle.

3 MR. FELDMAN: That's in direct

4 contradiction with other data from research -

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Mr. Feldman, can

6 you please wait to be recognized -

7 MR. FELDMAN: - so I guess I'm -

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: - with your

9 follow-ups? Thank you. And also, let's

10 please refrain from commenting on the

11 commenter's response. Let's limit ourselves

12 to questions, guys. Any other clarifying

13 questions?

14 MR. MARAVELL: Yes, you mentioned

15 that the Geneva root stock was resistant but

16 not commercially available. What are the

17 barriers to that particular root stock in

18 terms of commercial availability or any other

19 barriers?

20 MR. GRANATSTEIN: There have been

21 some major problems with propagation that

22 they're trying to work out at Cornell and
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1 apparently they are making progress but

2 there's just been not enough material

3 propagated to be put into the breeding

4 pipeline by nurseries.

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any last questions

6 for Mr. Granatstein? Okay. Thank you very

7 much.

8 MR. GRANATSTEIN: Thank you.

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up is Phaedra

10 Morrill. Standing by, Bruce Riggle.

11 MS. MORRILL: Hi, my name is

12 Phaedra LaRocca Morrill and I am second

13 generation LaRocca Vineyards. I'm here

14 because there's a petition to allow the

15 synthetic sulfur dioxide sulfites to wines

16 that carry the USDA organic seal. There are

17 several wineries out there that are successful

18 viable wineries that are selling over 4

19 million bottles a year of wines that carry the

20 USDA organic seal without the synthetic

21 additive sulfur dioxide. Allowing this toxic

22 chemical preservative in wines goes against
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1 the core meaning of organic. There's a packet

2 that's going around and there's documentation

3 representing that it's a neurotoxin, it's a

4 highly poisonous gas when handled and it's -

5 it's very toxic with immediate and serious

6 effects which meets criteria for disclosure.

7 The FDA requires food manufacturers to declare

8 the use of preservatives on labels of

9 processed foods with sulfites after receiving

10 reports of allergic reactions following

11 consumption of these products. So this is a

12 preservative that people actually do have

13 adverse reactions to. If you go to the TTB

14 website, ttb.gov, it clearly states that a

15 sulfite declaration is required on any wine

16 intended for interstate commerce that contains

17 10 parts per million of sulfur dioxide or

18 more. 

19 One might say that there are

20 naturally occurring sulfites in wine and that

21 can be true. We do get vintages that have no

22 sulfites detected. Naturally what Mother
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1 Nature intended is under 10 parts per million.

2 It's basically zero parts per million. The

3 petition is requesting up to 100 parts per

4 million of the synthetic additive. It's

5 really imperative that you understand that

6 there's an obvious difference between the

7 natural occurring and the synthetic sulfite

8 that can be in very, very small amounts in

9 organic wine. 

10 Also in the packet I've included

11 lots of documentation about the increase in

12 organic grape production, wine grape growing

13 production and the continuous increase in

14 organic wine production in general. CCOF came

15 out and said that between 2007 and 2010 there

16 was over 77 percent growth in the organic wine

17 grape production. Like I mentioned earlier,

18 there's over 300,000 cases of no-sulfite-added

19 wines being sold on the market. They are

20 award-winning wines, they are just like any

21 other wine, cabernet, merlot, zinfandel. 

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you,
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1 Phaedra. Any questions? Okay. Next up is

2 Bruce Riggle. Standing by, Matt Perrin.

3 MR. RIGGLE: Thank you much. I'd

4 like to thank the committee for the

5 opportunity to address the growers' concerns

6 on the continued use of oxytetracycline on

7 organic apple and pear trees for control of

8 fire blight. I'm a representative here for

9 New Farm Americas, Inc., that holds the

10 Mycoshield label. I've worked in

11 collaboration with Bernie Amundsen (phonetic)

12 and Debbie Carter in preparing the petition

13 that requested the reinstatement of

14 tetracycline for organic use and follow-up

15 rebuttal document to the committee's response

16 to the petition. This work was done for the

17 Washington State Horticultural Association.

18 I will cover the committee's concerns

19 involving the regulated use of oxytetracycline

20 on apple and pear trees, particularly for the

21 Pacific Northwest.

22 First, regarding the committee's
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1 concerns on environmental contamination during

2 manufacturing use, misuse and disposal. It is

3 important to understand that EPA has strict

4 rules and regulations regarding these matters

5 as they are listed in the labels with specific

6 language backed up to the full extent of

7 federal law. EPA lists specific remediation

8 steps. It's understood that not following

9 these listed procedures has consequences, one

10 of which a person cannot intentionally damage

11 environment. Given this, the committee should

12 have little concern for these issues.

13 Second, regarding the committee's

14 concerns as to human toxicity and/or other

15 adverse effects following exposure to the

16 material or breakdown products of these of

17 having harmful human health issues involving

18 the use of oxytetracycline in orchards, these

19 including effects on human development, EPA

20 addressed the potential risk to workers by

21 requiring personal protective equipment,

22 referred to as PPE, to minimize exposure to
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1 workers. Such PPE is described in detail on

2 the labels regarding human toxicity. EPA did

3 not find tetracyclines to be human development

4 toxins and determined that the materials posed

5 a medium risk to the general public with

6 regards to antibiotic resistance. With regard

7 to dietary intake EPA estimated the

8 pharmaceutical oxytetracycline exposure to a

9 user from a typical therapeutic dose is 50,000

10 to 200,000 times greater than the estimated

11 dietary dose exposure resulting from the

12 consumption of treated apples or pears. The

13 fact of the matter is is that apples and pears

14 have no detectable residues of this material.

15 Finally, we hope and trust that the NOSB will

16 remove the expiration date for tetracycline

17 and reinstate this important product back onto

18 the national list. 

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

20 questions for Mr. Riggle? Okay.

21 MR. RIGGLE: Thank you.

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay. Lisa? May
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1 I have the list? Go ahead and get started,

2 sir, and introduce yourself and then we'll

3 talk about who's standing by. Oh, here we

4 are, here we are. So next up is Matt Perrin

5 at the podium, and standing by, Tyler Shannon.

6 MR. PERRIN: Hi, my name is Matt

7 Perrin. I milk a hundred cows with my dad and

8 sister outside of Woodburn, Oregon. Quality

9 of milk is our biggest priority along with the

10 health of our cows and our land. And we have

11 a free stall barn and we'd like to recommend

12 that you change the regulations from 50 square

13 feet per cow to one cow per stall in a free

14 stall barn setup. We use chlorine and copper

15 sulfate on our farm to protect the quality of

16 our milk and the health of our cows and we

17 would like you to vote to continue to use

18 these products. Vitamin A and D are critical

19 for milk products and I would also like to see

20 the use of DHA in our milk products to

21 continue. The consumers really enjoy having

22 this product on the market and it helps
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1 organic farmers in the end, so thank you.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Short and sweet.

3 Does anybody have any questions for - I'm

4 sorry, say your name again.

5 MR. PERRIN: Matt Perrin.

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: For Matt. Thank

7 you. Nick?

8 MR. MARAVELL: Matt, what amount

9 of space do you think you have in your free

10 stall for a cow?

11 MR. PERRIN: I haven't calculated

12 it. It's, you know, we have less cows than we

13 have stalls so - and then they have a lot of

14 walking space around the barn and they can go

15 outside the barn a little bit. And so they

16 have quite a bit of space to move around and

17 not bump into each other and whatnot.

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Pardon me. What

19 is a free stall?

20 MR. PERRIN: They have a raised

21 stall, they can go in and lay down and then

22 they can get up and go eat and drink water,
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1 you know, at their leisure.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any other

3 questions for Matt? Thank you very much.

4 MR. PERRIN: Thank you.

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Tyler Shannon,

6 you're up, and Gregg Buckwalter is standing

7 by.

8 MR. SHANNON: I'm here with Food &

9 Water Watch and I'm submitting this comment on

10 behalf of Food & Water Watch Consumers Union,

11 Suzuki Environmental Foundation, George Strait

12 Alliance and the Living Oceans Society. This

13 wasn't submitted electronically but I have

14 written copies. 

15 Since the NOSB approved final

16 recommendations on aquiculture in November

17 2008 new information has emerged on these

18 topics that we believe is worthy of the NOSB's

19 consideration. We submit the following

20 information based on recent academic

21 literature as well as reports from several of

22 the open water finfish aquiculture facilities
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1 operating throughout the world in order to

2 ensure that this new information is considered

3 by the NOSB. We believe that this information

4 is significant enough to give the NOSB reason

5 to reconsider its 2008 recommendations. We

6 also urge the National Organic Program to

7 consider this information before it pursues

8 formal rulemaking to develop organic standards

9 for aquiculture products.

10 Since 2008 more information about

11 the impact of open net pens on surrounding

12 ecosystems and the use of wild fish as feed

13 has come to light, calling the 2008

14 recommendations into question. These studies

15 are outlined in here but I'm not going to go

16 over them now. The significant and long-term

17 impacts of open net pens on the surrounding

18 environment and ecosystems are incompatible

19 with the principles that organic production

20 should minimize environmental harm and promote

21 biodiversity. Open net penned finfish

22 aquiculture has too many risks associated with
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1 the industry to be considered for the organic

2 label. Also, any reliance on ecologically

3 sensitive forge fisheries for fish meal and

4 fish oil as a source of feed for farmed fish

5 even in the short term is wholly inappropriate

6 for an organic product. Because of this new

7 information we urge the NOSB to reevaluate the

8 recommendations on aquiculture products. A

9 more appropriate standard would require, (1),

10 closed recirculating systems that do not

11 release waste or water into the environment,

12 (2), no use of wild fish or fish meal as feed.

13 These criteria can only be met by systems

14 raising vegetarian fish such as shrimp or

15 Tilapia. That is an appropriate place for the

16 organic aquiculture industry to start.

17 Building on this foundation could allow the

18 industry to create a system of organic fish

19 that can be used to generate truly organic

20 fish-based feed or fish meal that could be

21 used as a feed source for organic carnivorous

22 fish as long as those fish are raised in
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1 closed recirculating systems. Thank you for

2 your consideration.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

4 much. Any questions? Colehour.

5 MR. BONDERA: Thank you, Tyler.

6 You said something just now that I wrote down

7 because it wasn't clear enough for me and I

8 don't know if it was what you said that you

9 didn't have time to talk about, but I'd like

10 to ask you. Which is you said - you alluded

11 to the penned fish processes have too many

12 risks, but it wasn't clear to me what those

13 risks are. I wonder if you could clarify

14 that.

15 MR. SHANNON: Right and those are

16 - there's environmental risks with the longer

17 term studies that have come out since 2008

18 that the previous recommendations about the

19 time that it's left fallow and the distance

20 away from the land is not enough. And it's

21 open and uncontrolled. So again, these

22 studies are outlined in here and our assistant
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1 director Patty Lovera will be commenting later

2 this week and can add more details on that.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any other

4 questions? Thank you very much. Next up is

5 Gregg Buckwalter and Steve Sevadones is

6 standing by.

7 MR. BUCKWALTER: Good morning.

8 I'm a producer in Pennsylvania of organic and

9 cage-free eggs. I'm in support of the

10 proposed standards for outdoor access and

11 inside stocking rates. The previous and

12 current standards are too nebulous in that

13 they don't specify what can and cannot be -

14 constitute outdoor access. It is reasonable

15 that an informed person can understand that

16 the true intent of the organic law is to let

17 chickens out on pastures so they can scratch

18 and engage in natural behaviors. Some think

19 that it's not possible to have birds with

20 outdoor access, at the same time produce a

21 food-safe quality egg and have healthy birds.

22 We have six different farms with approximately
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1 95,000 birds overall and all of them are on

2 the PEQAP Pennsylvania Egg Quality Assurance

3 Program and they are - which the program that

4 FDA paralleled for their egg program is a lot

5 of what the - that's a part of the PEQAP

6 program. We also are producing eggs in this

7 state that is watched closely for avian

8 influenza and we are used to biosecurity

9 protocols with live bird markets and waterfowl

10 flying ahead. I also believe that this is

11 what the customers want and what they expect

12 from us. In my opinion if most of the

13 consumers saw how a majority of the organic

14 eggs are produced I think they would either

15 become vegan or would go back to eating caged

16 eggs or they would lose trust in the organic

17 standards nonetheless. They are not picturing

18 this kind of production. They're picturing

19 what the standards will entail. 

20 I'd also like to see a cutoff date

21 of a year and a half or some timetable of all

22 production has to move to the 2 square foot
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1 outdoor access for all birds in the house, not

2 a square foot based on percentage of the house

3 capacity. If you do percentages or a number

4 of flocks for a phase-in or a depreciated

5 house complex you can play around with those

6 numbers and calculations. There can be

7 grandfathering of usefulness of a facility.

8 People can remodel things and continue to do

9 what they are doing currently if you don't set

10 a date. Unless there is a clear, defined time

11 or objective people will bastardize the law

12 like they have currently done. That is why in

13 this - that is why we are in a situation of

14 defining outdoor access now because there was

15 no clear definition of it. In conclusion, I

16 would support the changes to the organic

17 standards and provide outdoor access as it was

18 originally intended. That's what our

19 consumers demand and the expectations are.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

21 much. Any questions? Thank you. Next up,

22 Steve Sevadones. Okay. Goldie Caughlin. Are
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1 you in the room?

2 MS. CAUGHLIN: Yes.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Goldie.

4 And then standing by is Lindsay Fernandez5 Salvador. Goldie, please come on up. 

6 MS. CAUGHLIN: Thank you. I'm

7 here today - my name is Goldie Caughlin. I'm

8 a former member of this body from 2001 to 2006

9 so my sympathies to all of you and my thanks.

10 I'm also here today as a consumer, but also as

11 a longtime educator with PCC Natural Markets

12 and I am the third hat if you want to put it

13 that way and a very important hat to me is my

14 service as a member of the board of Cornucopia

15 Institute. I want to first of all comment on

16 something that a little while ago I believe -

17 no, let me just back up. It was one year ago

18 today that - I believe that it was announced

19 by Mr. McEvoy that indeed there was a decision

20 that he concurred that there was a presence of

21 accessory nutrients currently in organic

22 products - and that does include DHA and ARA -
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1 that those were based upon, in his words, a

2 faulty interpretation. I think that's a

3 charitable way of defining it. But the fact

4 of the matter is that was one year ago today

5 that he had said that there would be

6 forthcoming from the NOP a draft guidance. So

7 let me just say that at least - and obviously

8 nothing has come forth. No actions have been

9 taken in terms of removing these substances

10 being in labeled and USDA sealed products that

11 are on the market. I find that appalling as

12 a consumer. I find it appalling as a mother

13 and a grandmother. I find it appalling as an

14 educator and I certainly find it sad as a

15 former member of keeping organic standards

16 organic. And I know that it is painful to all

17 of us. I have heard a great deal about the

18 fact that there will be economic disruption

19 and that that seems to me to be today more and

20 more the driving force of decisions is what

21 will be the economic disruption of these

22 companies. A lot of hand-wringing, agonizing
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1 about that. What about the fact that those

2 consumers who think they are buying something

3 that has gone through the entire process

4 having the benefit of the congressionally

5 mandated review that's given to you. Tracy,

6 you mentioned yesterday in another meeting

7 that this body is an exceptional body. We as

8 FACA members on this body have authority to do

9 various things that are not given to other

10 FACA members and that really concerns me if we

11 let go of that and don't exercise it. Guard

12 it, guard that ability to be the final viewers

13 of what shall and shall not come into organic.

14 I'm also very concerned to see the

15 animal welfare -

16 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Goldie,

17 we are at the -

18 MS. CAUGHLIN: Thanks. All right.

19 I also have a petition from - at this moment

20 over 1,500 printouts of a petition that

21 consumers are saying keep questionable

22 synthetics out of organics. There's another
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1 several hundred that we saw today. 

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Please

3 submit that to the National Organic Program

4 and it will be registered to regulations.gov.

5 MS. CAUGHLIN: We will do so.

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Who has a

7 question? Any questions for Goldie Caughlin?

8 Thank you very much, Goldie. Okay. We have

9 had a range of sign-ups for walk-ins for

10 public comment and that's an important part of

11 our public comment process, to allow people to

12 come in this morning and put their name on the

13 list and at this time we would like to see

14 whether any of the walk-in sign-ups are in the

15 room and available to come and speak. Okay.

16 Next up is Lindsay Salvador-Fernandez.

17 Fernandez-Salvador. And - okay. And sir, if

18 you're a walk-in come on up and please check

19 in with Lisa Ahramjian. Lindsay Fernandez20 Salvador, please proceed.

21 MS. FERNANDEZ-SALVADOR: Thanks.

22 Well, I depend on public comment to get way
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1 behind to prepare my public comments so I was

2 right in the middle of it. So I'm surprised.

3 But here I am and I was almost done so phew.

4 At any rate, my name is Lindsay Fernandez5 Salvador. I'm speaking on behalf of OMRI

6 today. I'd like to thank the CACC for taking

7 on the very complex subject of material review

8 organizations. This was a long time coming

9 for OMRI and it of course is very important to

10 our core mission and we care about it, we're

11 passionate about it in our office. I'm really

12 actually especially thankful because it means

13 that I don't have to talk about corn steep

14 liquor either and that's a good thing too.

15 I wanted to elaborate a little bit

16 on our written comments and why we called for

17 a guidance for material review organizations

18 and ACAs as opposed to an accreditation scope.

19 We're not opposed to an accreditation scope by

20 any means, but what we are interested in is

21 more action in the short term in the form of

22 guidance and additional audits on the part of
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1 the NOP with ACAs and OMRI if we ever get to

2 that point and then enforcement on that

3 guidance and - during those audits. We

4 support our ACA peers and colleagues in their

5 efforts and their capability to review

6 materials on behalf of their clients and in

7 the context of the OSP. We understand that

8 materials can range from a very simple

9 limestone or manure source to a blended

10 fertilizer that I just saw had 57 ingredients

11 on our list the other day. So that can be

12 very complex and we need a guidance to just

13 really give us the basics of how to get there

14 and everything in between. We also recommend

15 that the NOP spend more significant time and

16 energy during their audits on the material

17 review processes of the ACAs that are seeking

18 continued accreditation. 

19 And finally, we would like the NOP

20 to provide increased enforcement regarding

21 material review. We think that the guidance

22 and audits and enforcements may fix many of
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1 the challenges and the problems that you've

2 cited in your discussion document. And then

3 although I am a biased source I consider OMRI

4 to be the gold standard for material review

5 organizations. We review every ingredient,

6 every additive, every manufacturing process

7 for both the ingredient and the final product

8 and we collect analyses for heavy metals,

9 pathogens, and we analyze MPK content based on

10 the ingredients to make sure that it in fact

11 makes sense based on what the ingredients are

12 and the final product is. My colleague - I'm

13 going to end there. I made it for three

14 minutes out of nowhere.

15 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you,

16 Lindsay. Any questions? I have one. You

17 mentioned inert materials and you mentioned

18 that OMRI reviews the constituent parts of the

19 approved materials. This goes back to Emily's

20 presentation earlier this morning on the

21 inerts working group. We know now that about

22 179 of these inerts. Can you just walk us
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1 briefly through what - how you approve inerts

2 to be used in crop production? And the

3 combinations.

4 MS. FERNANDEZ-SALVADOR: Yes, yes.

5 Well, thankfully for - in terms of pesticides

6 we also collect a lot of information that the

7 EPA collects, including what they call the

8 confidential statement of formula. And which

9 contains everything from what we would

10 consider impurities that are just naturally

11 occurring in the inerts or the active

12 ingredients and also formulated inerts. This

13 is very common as well. You'll get something

14 called maybe Tween 60 which in fact is not

15 some chemical, it's a formulated set of

16 chemicals that we are able to ask the company

17 to divulge that proprietary information to us.

18 So what we do is we get a complete list of

19 every single inert ingredient and then we

20 compare that to the List 4(a) or 4(b)

21 including the cast number. And something that

22 people don't realize is that cast numbers can
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1 have synonyms to them so we spend a lot of

2 time sorting through that kind of data and

3 that's how we review them. We make sure that

4 they're compliant with Lists 4(a) and 4(b).

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

6 further questions? Okay.

7 MS. FERNANDEZ-SALVADOR: Thank

8 you.

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: All right. Next

10 up is Blair Busenbark. And it looks like we

11 are shifting some timelines around here or

12 some staging of public comments so on deck is

13 Patti Bursten. Go ahead.

14 MR. BUSENBARK: Good morning. My

15 name is Blair Busenbark. I'm with Sun Gro

16 Horticulture and we have been a longtime

17 subscriber to having a group of our products

18 OMRI listed. And I'm coming here to give

19 comment in support of working towards a more

20 coherent and more discernible process for

21 input review. We are a - have been a strong

22 supporter of OMRI and we continue to have and
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1 use OMRI as a marketing advantage against our

2 competitors. We produce - we're the largest

3 producer of peat moss in North America as well

4 as we produce commercial grow mixes to

5 commercial growers as well as consumer

6 products. And we use our OMRI listed listing

7 status as a marketing advantage. And I think

8 it's crucial that just like consumers have

9 when they go into the produce section of a

10 store they can see the OMRI logo - not the

11 OMRI logo, the USDA NOP logo on the approval

12 of the product that they can be confident that

13 the product has gone through a rigorous review

14 process. I think that we still - we need that

15 same process with the inputs and that at Sun

16 Gro we recognize that the input review process

17 is important and that we use that, as I said,

18 as a marketing advantage but we believe that

19 that process should be up for review and that

20 all agencies should have a transparent process

21 that's similar to OMRI if they're going to do

22 that, and that those agencies all follow the
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1 same process just like all of the certifiers

2 for a product that is NOP-approved have the

3 same process. 

4 The last part that I think is that

5 I think it's crucial that everything is

6 science-based and I know that many of the

7 concerns and processes that we are submitted

8 to because we are a national manufacturer of

9 products, it seems that there's a lot of

10 duplication in the processes and anything that

11 I think could facilitate a company that's

12 trying to do the appropriate activities but at

13 a national level where obviously the sourcing

14 and ability for inputs that we combine

15 together for our products is not the same,

16 that would make it flow to our system better

17 at the same time producing top-quality

18 products that do live up to the organic

19 standards we would appreciate.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

21 questions? Thank you, sir. Next up is Patti

22 Bursten.
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1 MS. BURSTEN: Good morning. So

2 I'm sort of slightly unprepared as well. I

3 moved my time, so I'll just be reading right

4 from the script. In 15 years as an

5 independent organic inspector, technical

6 reviewer and consultant I've witnessed a broad

7 range of strategies for becoming and

8 successfully staying certified. There's a

9 profound difference in an inspections outcome

10 between a company that is proactively managing

11 its certification and one that simply relies

12 on annual organic inspections to find its non13 compliances. Operations that pay attention to

14 the regulations, embrace the concept of an

15 organic system plan, train their employees to

16 the procedures and perform self-audits are

17 usually not far out of compliance. Following

18 a quick and efficient inspection, the exit

19 interview generally only takes - only

20 identifies finer points of compliance and

21 commonly they are fixed before the report

22 makes it to the certifier. The other end of
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1 the spectrum is unfortunately more the norm in

2 which the OSP is handled as an application for

3 certification never to be revisited again. In

4 this common scenario the mitigation of non5 compliances that could be avoided with

6 proactive management become stifling to the

7 certification and renewal process which

8 results in several concerns, delays to

9 updating certificates, loss in business

10 opportunities, increased cost to the

11 certification agencies and the NOP, and non12 compliant products either entering or staying

13 in the marketplace. 

14 Currently, most global and U.S.

15 food safety and quality standards pertaining

16 to farm production and processing include

17 specific requirements for personnel training

18 and internal audits. Right now the NOP is not

19 as explicit. The regulation only hints at

20 proactive management of certification in

21 205.201(a)(3) which states that the organic

22 system plan must include a description of
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1 monitoring. I can't keep repeating it because

2 you all know what it says I hope. The

3 language nods towards a need to ensure

4 activities described are actually carried out

5 and documented, but that is actually not the

6 case. The way to do this is to require

7 training and internal audits. Skipping,

8 skipping, skipping. I turned in some proposed

9 guidance language as public comment and I hope

10 you all have an opportunity to look at it.

11 And I'll skip ahead to say I hope if you have

12 questions about it you will come to me with

13 it. The guidance document stresses that

14 regardless of size an operation must strive to

15 educate and inform all of those who are

16 relevant to be informed of what the document

17 says and how to actually carry out and

18 implement those critical components relevant

19 to the activities that organic represents for

20 the company. In addition, they have to be

21 actually trained - am I done? Okay. I could

22 go on and on and extol the virtues of my plan,
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1 but thank you.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Don't go away,

3 Patti. Any questions for Patti? Okay, I

4 guess we're set. All right. Mr. Bob Baker is

5 up next. And once Mr. Baker is done and we've

6 had a chance to ask him questions it will be

7 right about the noon hour and we will be

8 recessing for lunch.

9 MR. BAKER: Hello. My name is Bob

10 Baker and I'm a dairy farmer about 40 miles

11 out of town here. And we ship our milk to

12 Organic Valley. Just a couple of things I

13 want to comment on. I think there's been a

14 proposal that free stalls should be widened to

15 about twice what they are normally widened to

16 and that would be bad policy. You probably

17 don't understand free stalls real well, but I

18 hope you do. But anyhow, a free stall is in

19 a loafing barn or a sleeping barn if you want

20 to call it that where cows go and lay down.

21 And these stalls are normally about 4 feet

22 wide and about 8 feet long and so a cow goes
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1 in and lays down and her rump is over the back

2 so any defecation that she does goes into the

3 alley behind her so she doesn't end up laying

4 in it. If the free stalls were widened then

5 cows could be laying crosswise or any

6 direction and it would be not - it would not

7 be clean and just a policy I think whoever

8 suggested it didn't understand. 

9 I'd also like to comment on the

10 one stall per cow. I think that's a little

11 too restrictive at least in my herd. There's

12 usually at least 20 percent of cows that are

13 not lying down at any one time and I think a

14 20 percent over-population over stall is not

15 a problem at all. Another comment would be

16 regarding the DHA which is added to milk.

17 There are approved products that can be added

18 and I don't see any reason to add others, fish

19 oil for example I believe is an approved

20 product. Why do we need to add something

21 else? Sometimes I think these proposals are

22 perhaps made by corporate interests rather
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1 than people interested in true organics.

2 Thank you.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

4 much, Mr. Baker. Does anyone have any

5 questions? Okay. We are now going to recess

6 for lunch and let's all be back at 1:15 to

7 resume.

8 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter

9 went off the record at 11:57 a.m. and resumed

10 at 1:21 p.m.)

11 CHAIR MIEDEMA: The National

12 Organic Standards Board is now back in

13 session. First, an announcement. We have a

14 videographer here named Brenda Asterino from

15 Seattle Community Access Network, Puget Sound

16 Public Television. If you have any questions

17 for her feel free to approach the videographer

18 directly. 

19 We are going to start out our next

20 round of public testimony by reviewing the

21 NOSB mission statement. And then one more

22 announcement just before that. We do have
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1 some spots for walk-in sign-ups. We - I've

2 just been notified that we had several

3 cancellations today and so a few more spots

4 opened up. So if you would like to go and

5 sign up for one of those walk-in spots please

6 do so and then check in with Lisa. A question

7 from the floor?

8 MS. CAUGHLIN: It turns out that

9 reasonably early on if you decide that you do

10 not get that sort of response can you still -

11 in your time frame would it be possible for

12 maybe a lottery or whatever of those of us who

13 might want additional time.

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Let's cross that

15 bridge if and when we get there. Okay. I'd

16 just like to refresh everyone's memory on what

17 the NOSB statutory mission is. And Miles

18 alluded to and mentioned some of these

19 responsibilities. The statutory mission, the

20 law is to assist in the development of

21 standards for substances to be used in organic

22 production and to advise the Secretary of any
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1 other aspects of the implementation of this

2 title. It's also been tradition here at every

3 NOSB meeting to read the NOSB mission

4 statement into the public record as part of

5 our shared understanding of the purpose of the

6 National Organic Standards Board. To provide

7 effective and constructive advice,

8 clarification and guidance to the Secretary of

9 Agriculture concerning the National Organic

10 Program and the consensus of the organic

11 community. In carrying out the mission, key

12 activities of the board include assist in the

13 development and maintenance of organic

14 standards and regulations, review petition

15 materials for inclusion on or deletion from

16 the national list of approved and prohibited

17 substances - the national list - recommend

18 changes to the national list, communicate with

19 the organic community including conducting

20 public meetings, soliciting and taking public

21 comments, provide timely information and

22 education on the NOP, making reasonable use of
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1 a variety of communication channels;

2 communicate, support and coordinate with the

3 NOP staff. Thank you, everyone. 

4 All right, we'll go ahead and get

5 started with our next round of public

6 comments. And first up is Troy Aykan. Thank

7 you, Mr. Aykan, come on up. 

8 MR. AYKAN: Good afternoon. I'm

9 Troy Aykan. I'm a food scientist and an

10 attorney. I work for Hain Celestial Group.

11 I also teach food laws and regulations at Cal

12 Poly Pomona since 2002. Next slide, please.

13 I'll be making some comments about the

14 accessory nutrients. Currently they are

15 allowed under 605(b) so long as they are in

16 accordance with 21 CFR 104.20. And I made

17 another presentation on the last meeting and

18 we don't need to go over all that stuff again,

19 but I will address the developments and what

20 we think should be done. Next slide, please.

21 One of the biggest concerns is organic infant

22 formula. Obviously many consumers wouldn't
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1 want - the moms have their organic infant

2 formula have less beneficial nutrients than

3 the counterpart, conventional counterparts.

4 So should it be - the question is whether the

5 nutrient addition to organic infant formulas

6 be limited to those expressly codified in 21

7 CFR. Then we would have to obviously worry

8 about nutritional impurity of organic infant

9 formula to conventional one. Next slide,

10 please. 

11 We support re-listing of nutrient

12 vitamins and minerals to the national list,

13 support revising the annotation to allow

14 nutrients listed in 21 parts 101.9 and

15 107.100. For those of you who don't know what

16 they are, 101.9 establishes essential

17 nutrients and 107.100 is for the nutrient

18 specifications of infant foods by FDA. Next

19 slide, please. And since they all have to

20 conform to 104.20 under the current annotation

21 this subsection F states that any nutrient may

22 be added to food if they are permitted or
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1 required by applicable rules and regulations.

2 This section also shows that it's not just the

3 vitamins and minerals, but any nutrients.

4 Next slide, please. 

5 So in summary, regulations allow a

6 wide range of nutrients to be added to food.

7 The Hain Celestial Group supports organic

8 regulations that allow organic foods to be

9 nutritionally equivalent to conventional

10 foods. And we also ask the board that

11 sufficient time should be allowed for petition

12 process while allowing the continued use of

13 nutrients. Thank you very much. Any

14 questions?

15 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

16 much. 

17 MR. AYKAN: Thanks.

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up is Harold

19 Austin, Joan Moyer standing by.

20 MR. AUSTIN: Good afternoon. My

21 name's Harold Austin. I'm the director of

22 orchard administration for Zirkle Fruit
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1 Company in Selah, Washington. I also serve on

2 the Science Advisory Committee for the

3 Northwest Hort Council and I'm on the WSDA

4 Organic Board of Directors. Zirkle Fruit is

5 a family-owned business. We grow, pack and

6 sell our own fruit plus that of numerous other

7 growers and several other packers. We

8 currently farm both conventional and organic

9 apples, cherries, pears and blueberries in

10 Washington State representing over 2,000 acres

11 of organic pear production within the state.

12 Oxytetracycline is an extremely important part

13 of our fire blight control program both for

14 apples and pears. During the last 15 years we

15 have seen a dramatic change in the types of

16 apples now being farmed within the Pacific

17 Northwest. We have gone from varieties such

18 as Red, Golden Delicious, Romes and Granny's

19 that were not very susceptible to fire blight

20 to the newer varieties, Gala, Fuji's, Pink

21 Lady, Junami's, Honeycrisp, Lady Alice that

22 are extremely susceptible to fire blight
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1 infestation. 

2 Pear production, organic or

3 conventional, in Washington State would not

4 exist without the use of oxytetracycline as

5 part of a spray program within that commodity.

6 Other products are also used as part of a fire

7 blight program. These are copper which is

8 used post harvest and also in the delayed

9 dormant to control over-wintering canker.

10 BlightBan A506, one of the biologicals, is

11 applied at bloom time. Serenade post bloom

12 and then oxytet is applied during the bloom or

13 early post bloom timing. As David Granatstein

14 mentioned earlier this morning we do have some

15 products in the pipeline but it's going to

16 take time for those to get registered and then

17 once they are registered it's going to take

18 time for the growers to effectively be able to

19 figure out how to use those in their spray

20 programs. 

21 One of your published comments

22 made - mentioned that organic farmers that
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1 export seem to make it work without the use of

2 oxytet. That is not a true statement. We

3 have on three different occasions been forced

4 to remove blocks of fruit, Pink Lady's, Gala

5 and Honeycrisp from IOP production

6 certification because of the severity of fire

7 blight infestation that we experienced. One

8 of these three situations we had to replace

9 almost three-quarters of our trees because

10 they got infected and died before we could

11 properly get them treated. For our export

12 organic production we must be very careful on

13 what we farm, where we farm and what we farm

14 around those blocks. We must also farm with

15 fire blight reduction in mind. When we farm

16 fire blight susceptible varieties we must take

17 into full consideration everything that we do

18 on our farms and what effect it may have on

19 our ability to control or not control fire

20 blight infestation. 

21 Zirkle Fruit could very easily

22 look to remove as much as 500 acres from our
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1 organic program if we should get into a severe

2 fire blight infestation period without the use

3 of tetracycline. We have come too far now to

4 allow ourselves to take and risk such a huge

5 step backward. We would like to request that

6 the NOSB remove the expiration date from

7 tetracycline and reinstate it on the national

8 list until a suitable replacement can be

9 found. Also I would like to add that we are

10 in support of your recommendations to re-list

11 chlorine compounds with the proposed change to

12 the annotation as suggested and to re-list

13 coppers, both fixed and sulfate, with the

14 additional language regarding periodic

15 testing. I'd like to thank you for the

16 opportunity to share our views and for your

17 time and consideration as they were presented.

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

19 questions? Mac.

20 MR. STONE: Are you all using any

21 predictive modeling on potential for fire

22 blight on a given year?
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1 MR. AUSTIN: It's in part of the

2 non-condensed version, the 5-unit version

3 rather than the 3, but yes, we are. WSU has

4 put together a Cougar Blight model which we

5 can get on versus our phones or our computers

6 and most of the consultants in the state use

7 that. It predicts monitoring the weather,

8 moisture, bloom conditions, temperatures and

9 allows the growers and the consultants to know

10 when is the most appropriate time to make that

11 oxytet application or any other product that

12 they're using at that given time. So we've

13 taken it into the new era of using the tools

14 that are now at our disposal in order to take

15 and make the most effective use out of oxytet

16 application. So that we're not just randomly

17 applying it, but we're applying it when the

18 science says it's the best time to apply it.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Barry.

20 MR. FLAMM: Why did you move from

21 - excuse me - less susceptible varieties to

22 more susceptible varieties?
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1 MR. AUSTIN: Market demand. We've

2 seen steadily the decline in sales across -

3 global for Reds, Goldens, Romes and Granny's.

4 Gala's probably the most preferred variety

5 right now, Honeycrisp is becoming a very

6 popular variety, Fuji's, Pink Lady's, the

7 Junami's. It's consumer-driven and there's no

8 sense farming a variety that you can't market.

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Barry?

10 MR. FLAMM: Was that really

11 consumer-driven or was it the marketing

12 approach that was used?

13 MR. AUSTIN: Kind of a combination

14 of both, but I mean it truly was consumer15 driven, especially if you take the variety

16 like Honeycrisp which I think that's probably

17 the one variety that we collectively farm that

18 has really truly been pushed by the consumer

19 for us to expand the production of that apple.

20 It truly has.

21 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any further

22 questions? Thank you very much. 
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1 MR. AUSTIN: Thank you.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up, Joan

3 Moyer, Chris Pierce standing by.

4 MS. MOYER: Hello. My name is

5 Joan Moyer and I work for Island Spring

6 Organics. Island Spring is a tofu

7 manufacturer here in the Puget Sound. We've

8 been here for about 35 years and have been

9 organic the whole time. We would like to see

10 the organics program require spot testing for

11 - at the farmer level to ensure that crops are

12 actually non-GMO as well as organic. One of

13 the things that we're running into is a lot of

14 our customers don't understand that NPO

15 guidelines actually state that organic - that

16 NOP regulation already prohibits the use of

17 GMOs and there is confusion in our customer

18 base about that. We believe this confusion

19 has resulted in two things. One, that the

20 customer doesn't really have faith that

21 organic actually means pure and unadulterated,

22 and secondly, it's creating another tier of
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1 certification of non-GMO certifying bodies.

2 And from our perspective this adds additional

3 cost and effort to our product that we're

4 trying to market. We believe that in order to

5 protect the integrity of the organic label the

6 NOP needs to ensure that organic products do

7 not contain GMOs and that there's spot testing

8 done to encourage this. Thank you.

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any questions for

10 Joan? 

11 MS. MOYER: Thank you.

12 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Chris Pierce is up

13 next and Gerry Davis standing by.

14 MR. PIERCE: Ready? Okay. Good

15 afternoon NOSB and NOP and distinguished

16 guests and visitors. My name is Chris Pierce.

17 I serve as president of Heritage Poultry

18 Management Services. We're located in

19 Annville, Pennsylvania. I also serve as

20 chairman of the Pennsylvania Egg Quality

21 Assurance Program which is an SC risk

22 reduction program involved with egg
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1 production. We started as a pilot program

2 with FDA in 1992 and have been continuing

3 since. Last week I had a chance to visit with

4 a number of our senior NOP leadership, NOSB

5 representation, Tina Ellor, as well as FDA had

6 a representative, Jerry Ramirez, and

7 leadership from my accredited certifier. We

8 got to spend a day visiting three different

9 egg production facilities, organic egg

10 production facilities, that varied in much

11 scale. So I appreciate that we had that

12 opportunity. And a lot of the discussion was

13 - as my role as the chairman of the

14 Pennsylvania Egg Quality Assurance Program,

15 we've implemented organic eggs, organic flocks

16 have been part of that PEQAP program, our

17 first flock since 1997. So we're 12 years

18 into it and we've been following the PEQAP

19 program which served as the model for the FDA

20 federal egg rule. And we have been able to

21 meet and exceed the requirements of the PEQAP

22 program so we personally believe that there
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1 should be opportunity for USDA's organic

2 standards to meet FDA's compliance. We also

3 support that part of that compliance is going

4 to be rigorous standards that strong

5 management, detailed accountability at farm

6 level need to be in place so that farmers can

7 control and reduce salmonella risk, meanwhile

8 complying with the welfare standards that this

9 board and thus the administration will put

10 forward. 

11 In addition, I also support that

12 we are looking at putting meaningful poultry

13 welfare science-based standards in place such

14 as density and scratch area and perching and

15 roosting, but I recommend that we use and try

16 to follow similar programs that are science17 based that are already in the marketplace,

18 such as humane farm animal care to certify

19 humane program. We've had flocks in

20 compliance with that program since 2003. I

21 would rather see that the 205.239 Livestock

22 Living Conditions for Avians would replicate
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1 existing science-based programs. I'm not in

2 favor of having pullets, organic pullets be

3 mandatorily required at 12 weeks of age for

4 outdoor access. Our salmonella monitoring -

5 our salmonella vaccination program as well as

6 our other vaccination programs would go into

7 contrast to that.

8 In closing, I strongly support

9 that the NOP and the NOSB are on the proper

10 course of strengthening organic consumers'

11 confidence by clarifying the standards of how

12 organic eggs are produced and now including

13 hen welfare as an important component in the

14 definition of what organic eggs mean. In the

15 past, organic did not mean welfare, it meant

16 feed and no prohibited substances. It must

17 mean welfare and we support that. Wow, three

18 minutes, I did it.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

20 questions? All right, thanks very much.

21 MR. PIERCE: Thank you.

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Gerry Davis is up
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1 next and Jo Ann Baumgartner standing by.

2 MR. DAVIS: Gerald Davis, former

3 NOSB member and expert on the use of sodium

4 nitrate in organic farming. I have 18 years

5 experience working for Grimmway Cal Organic

6 Farms on more than 30 different vegetable and

7 grain crops that benefit from the material as

8 well as experience with many fruit, vegetable

9 and forage crops in which we choose not to use

10 it when it is not suitable or necessary. We

11 believe that the 20 percent of in-use

12 restriction for sodium nitrate has proven to

13 be a sustainable approach for our farm soil

14 health. In order to work within the 20

15 percent guideline we balanced that use rate

16 with 80 percent organic amendments. To do

17 this, we grow many thousands of acres of

18 waist-high legume green manure crops each year

19 and apply generous amounts of compost to every

20 field as well. These nitrogen fertilization

21 practices are much more economical than sodium

22 nitrate, but are entirely dependent on warm
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1 soils to convert the materials to nitrate in

2 sufficient quantities for the crop. This fact

3 alone limits our use of sodium nitrate to

4 specific crops that must have it to attain

5 marketable yield and quality, such as

6 vegetables grown in cool soil, fresh market

7 russet potatoes or wheat grown for bread

8 flour. 

9 We are not asking for permission

10 to continue using a synthetic material. This

11 is a natural that the rule has limited in its

12 use pattern to protect against improper usage

13 that could be harmful. The OFPA framework

14 gives the ability to place restrictions on

15 sodium nitrate use by placing it on the

16 prohibited naturals list, 205.602, with

17 annotation describing the use limitation. A

18 huge reason why the European and Canadian

19 rules do not allow the material is that their

20 system of rules is not conducive to this kind

21 of flexibility. In their rules a material is

22 allowed or it is not with no mechanism to
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1 limit usage. 

2 Some bullet points. One, the 20

3 percent of crop-in-use restriction of sodium

4 nitrate successfully minimizes harm to human

5 health or the environment. Just the paperwork

6 load involved to document a grower's usage

7 keeps most growers from using it. Number two,

8 the stereotypical objections most commonly put

9 forth against sodium nitrate are unmerited

10 when considered in light of this annotated use

11 restriction. These objections set up a straw

12 man of unlimited usage and then proceed to

13 knock it down with all the potential negative

14 effects of the material. Three, complete

15 prohibition of sodium nitrate will lead to a

16 constriction of supply of domestically grown

17 fresh vegetables during the winter months.

18 Vegetable marketers will respond by increasing

19 imports from Mexico. By the way, referring to

20 the written comments from Beyond Pesticides,

21 Sweden and Norway get by without using sodium

22 nitrate because they import fresh produce from
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1 Israel and North Africa during the winter.

2 Please don't be pressured to

3 capitulate to the equivalency argument put

4 forth by the NOP staff. The equivalency

5 problem with Canada is the only new

6 development since the last sunset review of

7 sodium nitrate. International equivalency is

8 irrelevant to your deliberations. Only the

9 nature of the material in relation to the OFPA

10 guidelines that you follow during your review.

11 In my opinion you have no new information to

12 justify rescinding the previous NOSB decision.

13 For the sake of the growers who market locally

14 or have adequate U.S. domestic markets for

15 their crops as well as for the sake of

16 wintertime consumers - last sentence - of

17 organic fresh leafy greens these people do not

18 trust the veracity of the organic claim

19 attached to produce coming from Mexico.

20 Please vote to keep the current listing.

21 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any questions?

22 Katrina.
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1 MS. HEINZE: Did I hear you

2 correctly that the materials used for the 80

3 percent are more economical?

4 MR. DAVIS: Yes. By far.

5 MS. HEINZE: Thank you.

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any more questions

7 for Gerry Davis? Thank you. Jo Ann

8 Baumgartner up next, Doriandra Smith standing

9 by.

10 MS. BAUMGARTNER: Hi, I'm Jo Ann

11 Baumgartner with the Wild Farm Alliance.

12 We've been assisting the organic community in

13 addressing biodiversity conservation for the

14 last seven years. In 2005 the NOSB

15 recommended adopting a set of biodiversity

16 inspection questions in the model organic

17 system plan and in 2009 many of you probably

18 remember that the board recommended

19 biodiversity conservation be comprehensively

20 addressed, including when reviewing materials,

21 when - and in lots of different ways for the

22 organic system plan, for producers outlining
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1 their strategy, for inspectors being trained,

2 certifiers adopting the OSP that addresses

3 biodiversity natural resource requirements so

4 that the producer is actually doing that. And

5 the NOP conducting trainings and revising its

6 audit review compliance checklist so that

7 questions about natural resource standards are

8 in every audit. And Wild Farm Alliance has

9 developed materials to help support some of

10 these efforts. Since that time the NOP has

11 slowly begun to integrate provisions for

12 biodiversity conservation. For example,

13 access to pasture regulations explicitly

14 require protection of natural wetlands and

15 riparian areas. With regard to the OSP the

16 program is currently updating it and now there

17 will be two pages on natural resource

18 management. And the NOSB is addressing

19 materials with regard to biodiversity. So all

20 that's good but there's still a lot left to

21 do. So we are in the process now of

22 developing draft guidelines for consideration
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1 in the NOP's handbook and we welcome review of

2 our materials by members in the organic

3 community. Such guidance is needed so that

4 all certifiers and farmers clearly understand

5 what is required to implement biodiversity

6 standards. 

7 We are concerned about another

8 aspect of your recommendation, the decision

9 for the ARC, the audit review compliance, to

10 assess only the process of certification, not

11 the standards themselves when performing

12 audits on organic certification agencies.

13 Since there is already a lack of all

14 certifiers properly implementing biodiversity

15 standards this deficiency in the ARC audit

16 methodology further undermines the NOP's

17 ability to ensure growers' compliance with

18 biodiversity standards as well as

19 certification agency implementation of them.

20 The ARC staff now relies solely on file checks

21 and witness audits to assess certification

22 agency's implementation of the NOP standards.
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1 In other words, ARC does not do a document

2 review to compare certifier standards against

3 standards in the NOP regulation. And not just

4 for 205.200, the natural resource standard,

5 but for all 200 and 300 standards. Is it

6 possible to get clarification of this from the

7 program? NOSB spends a huge amount of time -

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Jo Ann.

9 MS. BAUMGARTNER: Last sentence -

10 on the standards. And as I understand it, the

11 accreditation process does not back you up.

12 Thank you.

13 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

14 questions for Jo Ann? Thank you very much.

15 Oh, I'm sorry. Barry.

16 MR. FLAMM: Not a question I can

17 answer, but I think Jo Ann posed a question to

18 the program. I don't know if Miles is

19 prepared to answer that or if he'd like to.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Would the program

21 like to respond to any of the questions asked

22 by Wild Farm Alliance?
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1 MR. MCEVOY: So the question was

2 what - about the accreditation process and

3 what the ARC auditors review as part of the

4 accreditation process. We have - is that

5 right?

6 MS. BAUMGARTNER: Yes.

7 MR. MCEVOY: Okay. So we have

8 been revising the focus of the criteria that

9 the auditors are looking at during that

10 accreditation process and in order to - I'm

11 not prepared to go into all the details of

12 what that's about, but the focus of the audit

13 is to see that the certifier is complying with

14 their responsibilities, the accreditation

15 components within the National Organic Program

16 regulations. And as well as the certification

17 components. So that is the focus of the

18 accreditation process. The certifiers need to

19 be reviewing applications, conducting

20 inspections, issuing certificates as per the

21 certification sections of the regulations and

22 they need to be following the requirements as
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1 an accredited certifier under the

2 accreditation sections having to do with

3 conflict of interest, having to do with

4 qualifications of their staff that conduct the

5 work. And in the process of doing those

6 accreditation audits the auditors are looking

7 at case files as well as accompanying the

8 certifiers during inspections, what we call

9 witness inspection, to verify that certifier

10 is doing what is required under the

11 regulations. So that's the process that - a

12 very brief overview of the process of what

13 they're doing when they're doing the onsite

14 audits. So it's - the audit is not to look at

15 so much the implementation of the standards,

16 it's the - to look at how the certifier is

17 doing their job as - to meet the accreditation

18 criteria and the certification criteria. Part

19 of that is that if they're doing - when

20 they're doing that review they have to be

21 interpreting and following the criteria -

22 excuse me - that are in the regulations, in
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1 the crop and livestock and handling and

2 labeling sections of the regulations. So it's

3 kind of a long-winded answer, but the focus is

4 really on the certification, the accreditation

5 part during the accreditation process and the

6 audit process. 

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Miles.

8 Any further questions? Thank you, Jo Ann. Is

9 Doriandra available? We'll move on to Dan

10 Giacomini, Bruce Scholten standing by.

11 MR. GIACOMINI: Thank you, NOSB.

12 My name is Dan Giacomini. I'm an animal

13 nutritionist. I'm a former member of the

14 board and last year the chairman of this

15 group. As Tracy said she will miss the work

16 done by the board. I agree with her. I try

17 to miss it as often as possible. I'd like to

18 thank for the opportunity to make public

19 comment, but today I am - my public personal

20 comments have been posted on the website.

21 They are number 1702 if you at any point in

22 time would like to look that up because it's
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1 awful hard to search. Today I'm here

2 representing a number of organic dairy farmers

3 in northern California and the Southwest who

4 have their milk bottled, processed or brokered

5 by as many as nine different processors. 

6 The first subject that I'd like to

7 discuss is the stocking rate chart in the

8 livestock animal welfare document. The way it

9 is written and posted these rates in the

10 charts could be used to apply to all loose

11 housing - are meant to apply to all loose

12 housing which is the way I believe they're

13 intended, but facilities utilizing free stalls

14 and tie stalls would also be included. The -

15 in the 2009 Livestock Committee animal welfare

16 recommendation in 239(c)(5) it called for a

17 one stall per animal requirement or limit.

18 That was put into the NOSB's version of that

19 document in section 4 but it would bring back

20 - and the charts were deleted. In bringing

21 the charts back it's important that you be

22 clear that this is two versions of density and
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1 not an "in addition to" format where they

2 would both be required and both be enforced,

3 one animal to a stall but you're requiring two

4 stalls per animal at the same time. 

5 Overall I support the animal

6 welfare document. I encourage the board to

7 move ahead with it except for some of the

8 things that I mentioned in comments regarding

9 soil, 2010 amendments in particular, soil

10 definition. The transport document, the terms

11 disallowing transport at certain times is

12 exactly at some times when the animals need to

13 be moved and that needs to be readdressed. 

14 As far as the CACC recommendation

15 regarding material review, I understand many

16 of the problems involved in this process but

17 please don't limit the dynamics of the

18 process. There's a lot of cases where once

19 things have been reviewed by OMRI they are

20 repackaged and reformulated particularly in my

21 case with animals and supplements, animal

22 nutrient supplements. If we would then need
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1 to go back through an OMRI type review for

2 every one of those it would be extremely

3 cumbersome and very expensive.

4 Third, outside of the amendments -

5 outside of your intent to tweak annotation

6 changes. It's very important that you

7 reassert the current listings, animal nutrient

8 vitamins and minerals and a number of other

9 things. If there's any questions, reassert

10 and deal with them later.

11 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay. Thank you,

12 Dan. Any questions for Dan Giacomini?

13 Katrina.

14 MS. HEINZE: On your last point,

15 as a former Materials chairs could you explain

16 what you think the consequences are if we

17 don't do that?

18 MR. GIACOMINI: I will try but I

19 obviously can't because I tried doing that for

20 two years and I couldn't get the board to see

21 my point. Right now sunset - when sunset

22 rulemaking goes through its process it's
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1 considered essentially non-significant

2 rulemaking. It's just re-listing of

3 everything that's there, maybe dropping a

4 thing or two. Once you go to annotation

5 changes and amending what's there it's going

6 to create a lot more oversight and review.

7 That's already been established. And anytime

8 that happens you're risking an extremely drawn

9 out timeline for when those documents will go

10 through final approval. If the only thing

11 that this board has done is to vote for an

12 annotation change that is the only authority

13 that the Secretary and the NOP have to proceed

14 with. If they have not re-voted to reassert

15 a sunset listing and that process from

16 rulemaking gets dragged out they do not have

17 the authority in any form to do anything

18 except drop it off the list. Because this

19 board did not reassert that listing. That's

20 the authority of this board, that's the

21 responsibility - one of the responsibilities

22 of this board and you didn't take it. The -
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1 I don't know where it's written in that they

2 can assume certain things. You didn't

3 reassert the existing listing.

4 CHAIR MIEDEMA: I'm glad you're

5 here, Dan. Any other questions? 

6 MR. GIACOMINI: Thank you.

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

8 much. Bruce Scholten is next and Bridget

9 O'Brien is standing by.

10 MR. SCHOLTEN: Hello. My name is

11 Bruce Scholten and I was raised on a family

12 diary farm that grew from 20 to 100 cows, more

13 than 100 cows in my lifetime near Lynden,

14 Washington. Now I'm a geographer at Durham,

15 England and my PhD study called Food and Risk

16 in the U.S. and UK on organic food comparing

17 it to - between Seattle and Newcastle is on

18 Amazon.com. It records what I call the USDA

19 organic grazing war or pasture war in which

20 pasture rules of minimums of 120 days and 30

21 percent dry matter intake were finally

22 formalized by the NOP and I thought that that
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1 was a great occasion. 

2 Now one of the main topics before

3 us all is synthetics and some companies

4 apparently are adding synthetic omega-3 fatty

5 acids to infant formula without prior NOP

6 approval. To me this seems a very dangerous

7 precedent and I think it endangers consumer

8 confidence. In England, I live near Newcastle

9 University's Nafferton Farm which has got a

10 lot of press in the last year or two for

11 showing that milk has increased omega-3 if it

12 comes from cows on grass. But no science that

13 I know shows that synthetic omega-3 offers the

14 same health benefits as more naturally

15 occurring. So please enforce the law. If

16 non-organically produced synthetics have a

17 place I think it's what Professors Tim Lang

18 and Mike Heasman call the food sciences

19 paradigm which belongs in the conventional

20 market. 

21 Now shifting the subject to

22 stalls, I've been asked by Mark Kastel and
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1 Cornucopia to comment on this to give them

2 space in their slots to talk about something

3 else. But it happens that my views coincide

4 I believe exactly with theirs. So I think

5 that the mooted rules requiring 8 foot by 8

6 foot stalls are worrying. My family did much

7 consultation in designing the stalls in our

8 loafing shed of around 1963 and I've cleaned

9 thousands of stalls and I can tell you that

10 most organic cows I know fit just fine in 4x8

11 or 4 foot by 7 I think are even safer stalls.

12 Larger ones are less sanitary and larger ones

13 risk the cows panicking, trying to turn

14 around, breaking legs and other ugly, ugly

15 wounds. So small can be beautiful and

16 healthier too. I've become a little bit of an

17 advocate for family-scale dairy farms and I

18 hope you continue to support regulations that

19 honor the letter and the spirit of the 1990

20 OFPA Act. Thank you.

21 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

22 questions for Bruce Scholten? No questions.
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1 Okay, thank you. Bridget O'Brien, are you in

2 the room? Okay. Liana Hoodes is up next and

3 Gary Middleton is standing by.

4 MS. HOODES: Good afternoon all.

5 I'm Liana Hoodes with the National Organic

6 Coalition. As always I have a lot to talk

7 about related specifically to the docket and

8 some overarching pieces. The workload and the

9 pace has been increasing at an alarming rate,

10 I don't need to tell you that. We fear it's

11 becoming unsustainable. And this is not

12 because either you or NOP are poor at time

13 management or priority-setting whatsoever. I

14 propose that this is a systematic failure of

15 the agriculture and food policy community to

16 step up to the plate and make organic food and

17 agriculture successful and to make this

18 process, transparent process a reality. 

19 Okay, on the docket. Could you -

20 we really appreciate having the committee

21 recommendation chart and evaluation criteria

22 checklist in all proposed recommendations
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1 including sunset at the time of posting. That

2 helps us to see your work and our comments can

3 specifically address that. Corn steep liquor,

4 get on with it. Declare it a synthetic and

5 petition it as such. It's neither reasonable

6 nor correct to declare CSL a non-synthetic

7 just because it may cause the reevaluation of

8 other materials. That would doom the future

9 of materials review to just such a chaotic

10 decision-making process as we've seen on CSL

11 during the past year. If other materials must

12 be reevaluated to comply with the law and with

13 science then so be it. Conflict of interest

14 you'll see, we propose a more deliberate

15 approach to the declaration and transparency

16 to the conflict of interest policy.

17 We support the re-listing of

18 nutrient vitamins and minerals with an

19 additional annotation originally proposed by

20 NOP, refined by Cornucopia and OTA as well.

21 We do think that where synthetic vitamins,

22 minerals and nutrients are allowed we need to
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1 find a way to incentivize the development of

2 non-synthetic forms. Not sure how to get

3 there, but we need to try. Refer to our

4 detailed comments on both streptomycin and

5 tetracycline in fruit production. Lynn Coody

6 will be speaking to that. It's very serious

7 and we hope we've come to a partway on it. 

8 Okay, the big picture. The

9 challenge is to get all pieces of the organic

10 pie to take responsibility for the success of

11 the system. When we do not look at it

12 comprehensively then it's all too easy to

13 blame any one part and significantly it's

14 often the farmer that takes the brunt of this.

15 It's fundamentally disrespectful to farmers to

16 require them to comply with an extensive

17 system with constant oversight and not give

18 them the support in U.S. federal ag policy or

19 in the marketing system that is making huge

20 profits on their work. So what are the pieces

21 of that pie? Government, specifically USDA

22 above NOP needs to acknowledge the multiple
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1 benefits and support organic in all farm

2 programs. Steve Etka will go into that more

3 later. The industry must also support the

4 high standards and acknowledge the multiple

5 benefits of organic rather than just as a

6 profit-making label. Industry needs to look

7 for alternatives, not just input substitutions

8 but system solutions as in root stock

9 varieties on fruit trees to fulfill the taste

10 profiles that are the marketing - what they

11 need to market. It is their responsibility to

12 step up to that plate. And - okay. There I

13 am.

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Liana.

15 Any questions? Jay.

16 MR. FELDMAN: Thanks, Liana.

17 You've referred to corn steep liquor as a

18 foundational issue.

19 MS. HOODES: Yes.

20 MR. FELDMAN: What do you mean by

21 that and how do you frame that in the context

22 of integrity?
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1 MS. HOODES: Well, basically the

2 definition of synthetic. I think that it's

3 clear that with the sulfur dioxide it is a

4 synthetic and that definition and the process

5 you use to get to the decision-making needs to

6 be clear enough so that you don't get

7 bollocksed up in strange - I'll call them

8 strange definitions that really aren't

9 scientific. Once you get to that place of

10 having a consistent definition and a way to

11 get there then the other materials will fall

12 in place more. I do believe that there were

13 some mistakes made by earlier administrations

14 in sort of not being clear there.

15 Unfortunately I think that means that you're

16 going to have to fix that. I think you have

17 some discretion in the speed that you're going

18 to do it, but I do think it's foundational to

19 look at the definition of synthetic and CSL is

20 one of those. I hope that answers it.

21 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any other

22 questions? All right, thank you.
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1 MS. HOODES: Thanks.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up is Gary

3 Middleton. Scott Doughty is standing by.

4 MR. MIDDLETON: Good afternoon.

5 My name is Gary Middleton and I am both an

6 owner and grower of Middleton Organic

7 Orchards. I also represent Small Organic Tree

8 Fruit Growers of the Northwest. We have a

9 100-acre family orchard in which we grow

10 organic apples, cherries and blueberries. At

11 issue is our 16-acre block of Gala. Over the

12 past five to seven years fire blight has

13 decimated between five and six acres

14 throughout this block. This represents an

15 annual revenue loss of $75,000 to $90,000.

16 Without oxytetracycline available there is no

17 doubt whatsoever those numbers would have been

18 substantially higher. This year we replanted

19 the missing trees in order to fill the blocks

20 since the growing costs were the same per acre

21 irregardless. We were not expecting our only

22 viable product to sunset. This is
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1 detrimental. We have replanted a somewhat

2 resistant root stock Bud 9 trees with marginal

3 success. The one root stock that is resistant

4 to fire blight is the Geneva type root stock.

5 However, after much research and speaking to

6 several prominent nurseries I was informed

7 that these trees would not be available for

8 several years. It's important to note that

9 not all varieties of apples are susceptible to

10 fire blight. Pink Lady, Gala, Jazz,

11 Honeycrisp and Fuji are susceptible,

12 especially along the dwarfing root stocks.

13 There would not be widespread usage of

14 oxytetracycline as these represent only a few

15 of the many varieties grown. We have utilized

16 bacteria control such as BlightBan and

17 BloomTime, but once again the results were

18 unsuccessful. Two other products have been

19 suggested are paretic acid with an FSC of 32

20 to 40 percent and pseudomonas with about 50

21 percent FSC. Neither one is acceptable. I

22 would be hard pressed to find any one person
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1 in this room would be willing to accept these

2 percentages in their annual income. The

3 orchard is consistently being monitored on

4 fire blight as necessary. Meantime this

5 entire tree becomes infected. It's not

6 uncommon for the adjoining trees to be

7 infected as well. We utilize the WSU Cougar

8 Blight model to ensure that antibiotics are

9 applied only when the infection is high to

10 extreme. The infection period primarily

11 occurs during bloom time. However, fire

12 blight carries throughout the entire season.

13 Without products such as Mycoshield it's

14 highly probable that our entire Gala block

15 would need to be destroyed or grown

16 conventionally and that is not acceptable.

17 Like other orchards, we are looking forward to

18 having more products available for combating

19 fire blight. However, until that time comes

20 our primary tool is oxytetracycline. The

21 aforementioned susceptible varieties are

22 consumer-driven and will be grown somewhere
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1 else. Who is willing to give us market share

2 to foreign nations? I am not. And if so, who

3 will be enforcing the products that they use

4 or might be using? Statements such as "Go

5 back to fire blight-resistant varieties" is

6 simply absurd. We have a block of Golden

7 Delicious apples and it's a financial

8 challenge for profitability. It is our

9 request that the NOSB remove the expiration

10 date for tetracycline and reinstate this

11 product until a transitional equivalent

12 product has been identified for usage as the

13 removal of this product will result in

14 ramifications that will result in greater

15 hardships for a small family farm. Thank you.

16 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

17 much. I see a couple of questions. Let's

18 start here with Nick.

19 MR. MARAVELL: I have two

20 questions. First, do you have sufficient

21 information that would make you feel

22 comfortable using the alternative root stock
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1 Geneva in your operation? In other words, do

2 you have enough information that, you know,

3 you would willingly adopt that? If it were

4 available. All right. And then the second

5 part of that is how would you integrate that

6 into your operation. In other words, how

7 would you integrate that root stock.

8 MR. MIDDLETON: Well, let me just

9 say briefly that the reason we waited to

10 replant all these blank spots at our orchards,

11 we were waiting for the Geneva root stock and

12 my feelings as far as my research and other

13 researchers can speak more to this, but it

14 certainly has fire blight and replant

15 resistant qualities that I am seeking. I have

16 not found anything that's even closely

17 resembles that. The problem is is again it's

18 hard to propagate the nurseries and so I've

19 been waiting for like five years and it's

20 still not available. They said it's still

21 five years out. And your second part?

22 MR. MARAVELL: The second part is
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1 what would you actually do? In other words,

2 if that root stock were available today how

3 would you integrate that into your operation?

4 MR. MIDDLETON: Probably as I had

5 additional mortality and I certainly would

6 have replanted the ones - 1,800 trees I just

7 replanted. But as the mortality continues

8 because it probably is in some of those that

9 are infected because it actually truly infects

10 the entire tree and it takes time for it to

11 die, I would implement that root stock into

12 the plantings that I have now.

13 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay. Barry and

14 then Jay and then Katrina.

15 MR. FLAMM: Thank you. I have a

16 double-barreled question. First of all, you

17 mentioned that you would see an individual

18 tree infected and then it would spread

19 throughout the orchard. My first question is

20 what actions do you take with an individual

21 tree? Like do you do any culture. And the

22 second question is did you place an order at
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1 a nursery for your variety to be grown on

2 Geneva root stock.

3 MR. MIDDLETON: Yes, I have placed

4 an order with some of the premier nurseries

5 here in the Northwest. I won't utilize the

6 names, I don't think it's appropriate, but one

7 of the things what we do is we - each day we

8 go out and scout the block for strikes,

9 especially after bloom period because that's

10 when it's most susceptible. What we will do

11 is we will go out there and physically cut

12 that strike out, sterilize not only the

13 pruners but also the strike itself and then

14 gingerly move that out of that canopy of that

15 tree so it doesn't touch other parts and

16 become infected. Then it's taken to the edge

17 of the field or to another location and it's

18 physically burned. One of the things we've

19 found over time now is that as those become

20 more predominant, if we get more, say a

21 multitude of strikes in there that somehow

22 we've missed them, then we just simply pull
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1 the tree out because it's going to die anyway.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Jay.

3 MR. FELDMAN: I forget how long

4 you said you were - you've been farming.

5 MR. MIDDLETON: I've been farming

6 36 years.

7 MR. FELDMAN: Thirty-six years.

8 So you've gone through the transition of

9 variety. You went from - what varieties did

10 you transition from and could you give us some

11 insight into the decision-making process when

12 you did that?

13 MR. MIDDLETON: When I - I've been

14 farming for 36 years. I've been an orchardist

15 for 15. When I first started growing orchard

16 I planted Golden Delicious, Granny Smith and

17 Gala. And as time has progressed obviously

18 the demand for the Golds and the Granny's has

19 been diminished substantially. And as - it's

20 consumer-driven which means that basically you

21 know nobody drives a horse and buggy anymore,

22 we all drive cars because that's what people
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1 want. And so as the industry has changed I

2 haven't had the ability to change all my

3 varieties out. I would like to take the

4 Golden Delicious out but it's not economically

5 feasible for me at this time. But I'm looking

6 at something that will potentially return some

7 profitability to this family farm.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Katrina.

9 MS. HEINZE: My question is about

10 streptomycin. We've heard a considerable

11 amount of public comment on tetracycline, but

12 we also have a sunset renewal for streptomycin

13 and I was wondering if you could comment on

14 the need for that material.

15 MR. MIDDLETON: I won't comment

16 extensively because I'm not a researcher, but

17 I do know that it has developed resistance

18 here in the Northwest. And oxytetracycline or

19 tetracycline is a softer product. But I'd

20 hate to take a researcher's position on that,

21 so that's how I'll answer that.

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any other
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1 questions? Thank you.

2 MR. MIDDLETON: Thank you.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up is Scott

4 Doughty and then standing by, Paolo Bonetti.

5 Scott - doesn't look like Scott is here.

6 Okay. Paolo. And then standing by is Steve

7 Pierce.

8 MR. BONETTI: Hello, my name is

9 Paolo Bonetti from Organic Vintners. Thank

10 you for allowing me to present our petition to

11 amend the annotation in organic wine-labeling.

12 This label you see here was issued by the TTB

13 and NOP in June 2009 in an effort to clarify

14 confusion over wine-labeling. Has anyone seen

15 this new organic category? Under NOP regs

16 205.301(f)(7) there's a basic, fundamental

17 longstanding principle that one cannot mix

18 organic and non-organic forms of the same

19 ingredients. Next slide. Simultaneously,

20 Canada passed its own organic regulations

21 adopting most NOP regulations except those in

22 wine. In Canada, Australia and New Zealand,
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1 organic wines with added sulfites are called

2 organic wines as they should be. 

3 How has this impacted the U.S.

4 market? The negative results were quite vast.

5 I have a few examples. How is a consumer

6 supposed to know that a wine made with organic

7 grapes is 100 percent organic because it does

8 not have the USDA seal and because it does not

9 say organic wine? Slide 3, please. Organic

10 milk I was told commands 40 percent premium at

11 the farm. And even though wines made with

12 organic grapes consistently rate higher than

13 their conventional counterparts, bulk organic

14 wine grapes actually have a negative premium

15 of 7 percent. Slide 4, please. As a result,

16 rampant greenwashing has emerged. Winemakers

17 tend to use anything but the USDA seal. Look

18 at the list of logos consumers are faced with.

19 Okay? The California Sustainable Wine-Growing

20 Alliance actually allows for the use of Round21 up and sophisticated retailers are even

22 confused and they're calling their organic
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1 wine sections "sustainable" or "eco-friendly."

2 They don't call it eco-friendly milk, do they?

3 And the next slide, please.

4 The growth of our industry - this

5 is the most important part - has been

6 completely stunned. Although organic products

7 on average enjoy a healthy 3.5 percent market

8 share in the food segment while organic wine

9 according to Ms. LaRocca's testimony this

10 morning is up to 0.1 percent of U.S. wine

11 sales, lagging behind by a whopping 35 times

12 the average. Next slide, please. It took an

13 act of Congress, the Boxer-McConnell Amendment

14 to the OFPA in 2000 to allow sulfites in

15 organic wine. I believe that the intention

16 and the spirit of this amendment was to make

17 organic wine a competitive and healthy

18 category in the organic industry, rather than

19 putting us in a "made with" box. The "made

20 with" experiment protecting a single handful

21 of domestic wine producers has clearly been a

22 failure and it's time to make change for the
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1 benefit of the entire industry and for

2 consumers who simply want organic wine without

3 harmful pesticides and herbicides. Next

4 slide, please.

5 The legal solution is a petition

6 which was accepted by your board last July.

7 Please consider deleting the annotation for

8 sulfur dioxide on the national list. Next

9 slide. I quote, thanks to sulfites, the

10 organic industry - excuse me, the wine

11 industry is being excluded from the organic

12 market niche and penalized for something

13 without which it cannot make a long-lasting

14 product. Dr. Waterhouse will be speaking on

15 this issue at 5:05 p.m. Any questions?

16 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. 

17 MR. BONETTI: Thank you.

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Steve Pierce. And

19 -

20 MR. PIERCE: Good afternoon. I -

21 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Just a moment,

22 sir. Thank you. Scott Rode standing by.
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1 Please proceed.

2 MR. PIERCE: I passed out handouts

3 earlier that I do not think - they're coming

4 to you right now. If you'll turn to page 2 of

5 those it has the slides that I'm getting ready

6 to show. Three minutes is not a lot of time

7 so let's start moving. Number one, the act is

8 the law. Let's go with reality here. It says

9 that the national list may be provided the use

10 of certain substances for organic farming or

11 handling that would otherwise be prohibited

12 according to the chapter if the Secretary

13 determines that the use is necessary, blah,

14 blah, blah, because of the unavailability of

15 wholly natural substitute products. In 2007

16 I spoke before this board and I let you guys

17 know that there was a wholly natural

18 substitute commercially available in the

19 marketplace. And oh by the way it is

20 certified organic and it is certified 100

21 percent organic. In that same year as you can

22 see kind of along the bottom it says that the
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1 Missouri delegation, senators and

2 representatives, sent a letter to the

3 Secretary of Agriculture checking and kind of

4 indicating that he seemed to be out of

5 compliance with the act on the 2007 re-listing

6 of silicone dioxide. Next slide, please. Six

7 weeks ago the committee - or the Handling

8 Committee requested information from

9 processors on this exact subject. Here's the

10 chart that I submitted then. I submit it

11 again to you today talking about the six

12 categories. I don't know why my pointer's not

13 pointing. The six categories that are

14 relevant to the recent TAP review on silicone

15 dioxide. Please note in there that the wholly

16 natural substitute does work in the first four

17 areas, one is being tested. Number five is

18 one we said that the de-foamer. We are not

19 claiming to work in that area. Notice that

20 there are other items on the national list,

21 both anti-caking and filtration aid. Next

22 slide.
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1 Looking at the public comments and

2 I was amazed to hear the committee mention

3 this morning that we now need more public

4 comments. We've had three to five public

5 comments over the last two years. Here's how

6 they break down. The last 28 comments came

7 from processors. Next slide, please. If you

8 look at those you can see where you've got a

9 column on the left saying remove it, a column

10 on the right that says keep it. 

11 What ingredients go into an item

12 is personally confidential. The only people

13 that know exactly what's going into the items

14 are the certifiers and the manufacturers. In

15 order to give some insight to the committee

16 and the board I gave two pages of information

17 that's publicly on the website that talks

18 about the listing of the wholly natural

19 alternative that is being used commercially as

20 a replacer to silicone dioxide. We export

21 this product to probably 18 or 20 countries

22 around the world and we are selling across the
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1 United States both natural and organic.

2 Originally this product came out as only

3 organic. Next slide, please. We had some

4 natural food companies that were buying the

5 organic version just because they did not want

6 silicone dioxide in their food items.

7 Solution to this to try to bring justice back

8 into balance. One, I told you what the act

9 said. I didn't write it, I'm just trying to

10 comply with it an would request that you do

11 the same. When a wholly natural substitute is

12 available the synthetics aren't supposed to be

13 there. Bottom line, please comply with the

14 act. 

15 Next slide if I may where I ask

16 two questions of the board. Disappointed in

17 the agenda change. We're not voting on this,

18 we're simply discussing. What information are

19 you seeking that you haven't received? I'm

20 here ready, willing and able to communicate.

21 Allegedly we're supposed to communicate

22 through the NOP. Nobody's asked me a single
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1 question about this issue over the last year

2 and a half since we petitioned.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Katrina.

4 MS. HEINZE: You are proposing

5 that we change the annotation to silicone

6 dioxide only as a de-foamer. Could you speak

7 to filtering aid? I see in the data that you

8 provided that the wholly natural substitute is

9 being tested as a filter aid and we did - I

10 like your summaries by the way - and we did

11 receive public comment that we needed to re12 list silicone dioxide as a filtering aid. So

13 I'm wondering why you didn't include that in

14 your recommended annotation.

15 MR. PIERCE: It's one of the items

16 that is being tested right now, mainly looking

17 at the beer industry. I spoke with someone

18 this morning that's using it in another

19 product and process. They are using

20 diatomaceous earth which is approved. They

21 said they don't use silicone dioxide

22 specifically. Not necessary there. Work has
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1 been done in the reduction of the cloudiness

2 in beer, the filtration aid that silicone

3 dioxide is typically used for. They had used

4 whole rice, the hulls, the bran and the white

5 portion of the rice. What the wholly natural

6 alternative is is the rice hull. Where the

7 whole grain rice worked and worked properly

8 and effectively in that capacity scientists

9 told me, or some scientists have told me that

10 it would have been the hull that was acting as

11 that filtration aid to cause the proteins to

12 precipitate out. We are now in contact with

13 some beer manufacturers providing samples to

14 them, asking them to do some testing so that

15 we can come back and say we're not just

16 testing, we would like to find out what does

17 industry need and how do we make that happen

18 with compliance with the act.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Katrina.

20 MS. HEINZE: So today it's not an

21 alternative for a filtering aid, did I

22 understand that correctly? It's in the
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1 process, but today it's not.

2 MR. PIERCE: If we were voting

3 today I would say no.

4 MS. HEINZE: Okay, thank you.

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Jay.

6 MR. FELDMAN: I have several

7 questions. I'm going to have to ask them all

8 up front unfortunately. But I'm interested

9 for you to reiterate, please, what uses you

10 feel you have a commercially viable

11 alternative for in the non-synthetic form.

12 I'm interested in knowing whether you feel you

13 had an adequate hearing before the decision14 making process at the committee level and what

15 could have contributed to better information

16 getting to the committee quicker. Did you not

17 know what was going on? Did you feel excluded

18 from some conversation? What could have

19 facilitated a more - a quicker access to the

20 decision-making process. Three, what impact

21 has this lack of a decision had on your

22 business and the opportunity to improve
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1 commercialization of your product and I'll

2 leave it at that. Thank you.

3 MR. PIERCE: Three good questions

4 and I'll hit them quickly. Slide number two

5 that I showed showed the six areas where the

6 product is viable. One we're in testing on

7 the filtration aid. Again, I would vote no on

8 that today if we were voting. The anti9 foaming I'd say no, it doesn't work. The

10 other areas, I'm not claiming that it works.

11 I will say we've got commercial product on the

12 shelves using it today in the other four

13 areas, the anti-caking, the flavor carrier,

14 the tableting aid, the four items that are

15 listed there. 

16 Your second question was did we

17 receive an adequate hearing? I think there's

18 been good dialogue. I want to say maybe the

19 system's a little bit broken or we've only got

20 three wheels on the cart. Never has there

21 been any dialogue and one of my questions that

22 I asked at the end is what would the committee
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1 like to hear that they haven't heard. The

2 definition of insanity is doing the same thing

3 over and over and expecting different results.

4 If there's something that they're seeking let

5 us know what it is. Every letter I've sent,

6 and I've sent letters to the NOP as well as

7 public comments every time it's come open. If

8 you need additional information let us know.

9 If we're supposed to facilitate through the

10 NOP, happy to do it. Let's do a conference

11 call with the stakeholders or the lead person

12 - that's a new word I learned today - the lead

13 person on the Handling Committee that's

14 dealing with this. Let's get the facts on the

15 table because I've got nothing to hide. But

16 all I have done is responded to public comment

17 and I'm shooting in the dark which I think is

18 a time-killer. 

19 Third one, impact from no

20 decision. I think it's American jobs. I

21 think it's the lack of rewarding American

22 ingenuity, farming creativity. You've got a
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1 synthetic on the list, some small company out

2 in the middle of St. Louis comes up with a way

3 to use a byproduct from the rice industry,

4 finds it, identifies it, makes it commercially

5 available. We didn't wait on anybody. In

6 2007 we started selling. We're competing with

7 silicone dioxide. Hey, guess what? We've got

8 a list of probably well over a hundred plus

9 customers in probably 20 different countries

10 that are using this product. It's cost us

11 American agricultural exports which I know is

12 one of the President's highlights. Forty

13 percent of our product is exported. Europe,

14 Australia, New Zealand, all across North

15 America, Korea, we're shipping these products

16 everywhere. If it were - if the committee did

17 take action as we've proposed all of the

18 countries that are producing products to

19 export back to the U.S. with the organic logo

20 on it, if silicone dioxide were outlawed the

21 rice concentrate would be a part of it and

22 that would be more food that we're shipping
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1 overseas to ultimately come back raising more

2 jobs, more demand, more good for the economy.

3 Thank you and I'm sure I've gone over the two

4 minutes.

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any further

6 questions? Thank you. 

7 MR. PIERCE: Thank you.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up is Scott

9 Rode. A few more cancellations it looks like.

10 Okay. Edward Maltbe, you are up at the podium

11 and Ashley Swaffar is standing by. Ashley,

12 are you in the room? Okay, thank you.

13 MR. MALTBE: Good afternoon.

14 Sorry about my voice. Ed Maltbe, executive

15 director of Northeast Organic Dairy Producers

16 Alliance and coordinator for the Federation of

17 Organic Dairy Farmers which is a national

18 association of dairy producers. It's always

19 good when there's another industry marveling

20 at the benefits of dairy. I drink a lot of

21 wine as well so, but at least the wine

22 industry doesn't have animal welfare. Except
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1 if - who you get to stomp your grapes. We do

2 get serious sometimes. 

3 From the point of view of the

4 recommendation to the Livestock Committee we

5 would ask that you don't bring them to a vote

6 right now but combine them with the

7 recommendations for your fall meeting. We

8 support the need for transparency,

9 accountability when considering the welfare of

10 livestock that are entrusted to our care. We

11 strongly believe that the organic welfare

12 guidance and standards must be sensible, based

13 on reasonable regulations and are determined

14 by the realities of good farming, good

15 husbandry, grazing, natural animal behavior

16 and natural healing. We also are facing a

17 crisis within farming, organic dairy farming

18 especially, of excessive regulation. The

19 number of dairy - organic dairies who are no

20 longer organic because of excessive regulation

21 is increasing. We are seeing a loss of

22 organic farmers partly through the
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1 profitability side but also the increasing

2 regulation. My extensive comments, 20 pages,

3 are all posted. 

4 From the point of view of the

5 stocking rate chart we've come up with three

6 different criteria that we would like to use

7 going back to the 2009 recommendations to the

8 committee. During non-grazing season or

9 during times of temporary confinement the

10 following space should be provided for dairy

11 livestock in confined housing free stalls, tie

12 stalls. At least one stall must be provided

13 for each animal in the facility at any given

14 time. The size of the stall must be enough to

15 meet the requirement of herd health or the

16 herd health plan, recognizing the different

17 requirements of different breeds, stage of

18 lactation and the age of livestock.

19 Operations - secondly, operations can make a

20 choice to have some or all of their livestock

21 out wintered or not housed or not in an

22 outside run or pen during non-grazing season
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1 so long as livestock has adequate shelter,

2 clean water for drinking and direct sunlight

3 suitable to the species' stage of life, the

4 climate and the environment. Thirdly, in

5 loose housing bedding packs, dry lots,

6 coveralls, the following table which was

7 within the recommendation can be used. 

8 Quickly moving on to the -

9 straight on to the - oh the requirement to

10 have certification of transporters. We feel

11 that that would unfairly be an unfair burden

12 on small- to mid-size operations that

13 transport a small number of animals at a time.

14 Simply having the animal separated within the

15 livestock trailer and then the trailer cleaned

16 out at the end should be sufficient.

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Ed, that's your

18 three minutes. Any questions for Ed Maltbe?

19 Nick.

20 MR. MARAVELL: Ed, I don't know -

21 I haven't reached your 20-page statement yet

22 so it might -
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1 MR. MALTBE: I'm not sure if I can

2 answer your question then. Go ahead, sorry.

3 MR. MARAVELL: You mentioned some

4 reservation about excessive regulation on

5 dairy farmers. Could you just give us - and

6 you were indicating that perhaps some dairy

7 farmers were leaving organic production. Did

8 I understand that correctly?

9 MR. MALTBE: Yes, that's correct.

10 MR. MARAVELL: And I don't know if

11 also you feel that it's getting harder to

12 attract dairy farmers into organic production.

13 But I was wondering if you could just give us

14 one or two anecdotal or concrete examples of

15 the excessive regulation and how that impacts

16 the dairy farmer. Just so we have something

17 that we can keep in our mind.

18 MR. MALTBE: I can give you two

19 specific areas. Recently we did a survey of

20 all our members and one of the - about 90

21 percent of the comments that came back in

22 answer to "What is your significant time
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1 burden?" is regulations, filling out the forms

2 and the fact there isn't one standard form

3 from every certifier. Every certifier has a

4 different form, different requirements and

5 depending on the qualification of the

6 inspector then the interpretation of the

7 different requirements will be varied and some

8 require more paperwork, some require less. It

9 takes up a significant amount of time after a

10 very busy 10- or 12-hour day. Anecdotally

11 it's - from the amount of questions I've had

12 in the last three months, you know, what is

13 our return for this amount of work, for this

14 amount of regulation. Why don't we get more

15 back in the marketplace? How much more

16 regulation is going to be forced upon us in

17 order to continue doing our farming?

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any other

19 questions? Thank you. Next up is Ashley

20 Swaffar. Erin Moore is standing by. Erin,

21 are you here? All right. Bob Anderson,

22 standing by.
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1 MS. SWAFFAR: Good afternoon. My

2 name is Ashley Swaffar and I'm the quality

3 assurance manager for Arkansas Egg Company and

4 we manage around 200,000 organic laying hens.

5 The Livestock Committee has proposed

6 recommendations for animal handling, transport

7 and slaughter, and I would like to point out

8 a few topics in which I feel they have grouped

9 all species of livestock and it should not

10 apply to poultry.

11 Transport conditions. Bedding

12 provided as needed should not apply to poultry

13 due to the fact they are moved in coops or

14 racked and it would be very impractical for

15 poultry producers. Transport time exceeding

16 12 hours requiring feed, water and time for

17 rest. Many hatcheries are more than 12 hours

18 away from any producers. On longer trips from

19 the hatchery the chicks are provided

20 nutritional gel supplements and arrive with

21 very low DOA counts. We are only nine hours

22 away from our hatchery. But if we were to buy
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1 pullets from a producer in Wisconsin like

2 we've done in the past the driver would have

3 to stop 30 minutes away from our farm and feed

4 and water the pullets. And it would be very

5 impossible to feed and water the pullets due

6 to the size of the coops and racks. And when

7 dealing with spent hens, processing plants

8 require a feed withdrawal time of 8 to 12

9 hours. If you stopped one hour away from the

10 plant to feed and water your chickens you

11 would have to let the chickens set on the

12 truck another 8 to 12 hours to let the feed

13 pass through the bird before being unloaded

14 for processing.

15 Certification of transporters. It

16 is the NOSB's intention that the transport

17 operators would need to be certified in order

18 to transport organic livestock. The

19 transportation company we use had this to say.

20 This would put a hurt on all trucking

21 companies with a significant rise in cost to

22 the producer. So I ask why would a trucking
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1 company need to be certified organic if all

2 they did was truck the bird. This would be

3 like certifying a tractor to cut hay. Fitness

4 for transport. This section should be clearly

5 defined as a slaughter only section. It could

6 be easily misinterpreted on this section less

7 than 48 hours old to possibly include any

8 animal no matter where the destination cannot

9 be transported less than 48 hours of age. 

10 On the animal welfare proposed

11 recommendation, pullet outdoor access should

12 not be granted until pullets receive all their

13 necessary - or all their recommended

14 vaccinations. We do not finish giving our

15 vaccinations until arrival at the lay house.

16 The reason for such late vaccination is to

17 ensure immunity through the entire life of a

18 hen against diseases such as fowl cholera,

19 salmonella enteritidis and E. coli which can

20 be detrimental to the hen resulting in loss of

21 production and ultimately loss of the hen.

22 Thank you for your time. Any questions?
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

2 much. Laura, I see you coming up to the

3 podium.

4 MS. BATCHA: I'm not Bob Anderson,

5 but my colleague Bob Anderson and I have

6 swapped spots and Lisa's made the change.

7 You'll be hearing from Bob on Thursday, so.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you.

9 MS. BATCHA: Thanks for your

10 flexibility. So good afternoon. I'm Laura

11 Batcha with the Organic Trade Association and

12 I first wanted to introduce OTA to some of the

13 new board members. We're a membership-based

14 business association for organic agriculture

15 and products in North America and our

16 membership is as diverse as the sector itself.

17 We have over 1,200 members representing over

18 6,500 certified operations in 49 states across

19 the country. Our board of directors is

20 democratically elected by the membership, one

21 vote per member.

22 The first thing I want to do is
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1 make the board aware of our comments regarding

2 a suggested annotation change for lignin

3 sulfonate. We're passing that around and it's

4 a topic that Bob Anderson is going to speak to

5 you all on Thursday about. It has to do with

6 international trade barriers. But given that

7 the committee will have their discussions

8 tomorrow we just wanted to make sure it was

9 available to you before your deliberations and

10 he'll elaborate more on that on Thursday. 

11 The second area that I want to

12 focus on right now is nutrient vitamins and

13 minerals in the 2012 sunset recommendation.

14 OTA fully supports the continued allowance for

15 vitamins and minerals in NOP-certified organic

16 foods. We support the 1995 NOSB endorsement

17 of accessory nutrients and we support the

18 national list process and the statutory

19 authority of the board to review materials for

20 inclusion on the national list. Our written

21 comments that we submitted to you all include

22 data supporting the consumers' acceptance of
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1 and desire for fortified organic foods and I

2 encourage you to take a look at that data in

3 the written comments we've already submitted.

4 So the heart of this is that in addition to

5 voting on the re-listing of the nutrient

6 vitamins and minerals per the status quo

7 annotation which we urge you to do at this

8 meeting, OTA requests that the board consider

9 voting at this meeting as well on a clarified

10 annotation that creates a clear and

11 transparent list of materials allowed for use

12 in the fortification of organic foods. As we

13 stated in our written comments, we support the

14 following annotation. Vitamins and minerals

15 identified as essential in 21 CFR 101.9 or as

16 required for infant formula by 21 CFR 107.100

17 or 107.10. Unlike the current reference to 21

18 CFR 104.2, this proposed annotation change

19 represents all of the essential nutrients that

20 were included in the 1995 TAP reviews. In

21 addition, it includes several minerals the FDA

22 has codified as essential since that time. We
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1 believe it's certifiable and enforceable and

2 as demonstrated by the public comment today it

3 has broad support across the organic community

4 as well as the support of the program and

5 apparently the FDA based on this morning's

6 presentation. So we respectfully ask that the

7 board consider getting this vote done at this

8 meeting.

9 Beyond the sunset 2012 decision,

10 OTA is fully in support of the use of an

11 allowance for accessory nutrients in NOP12 certified organic products.

13 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Laura, that's your

14 three minutes.

15 MS. BATCHA: Is that three

16 minutes? Okay.

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: It went fast. Any

18 questions for Laura Batcha? 

19 MS. BATCHA: No questions.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

21 much.

22 MS. BATCHA: Okay.
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Is Erin Moore in

2 the audience? Okay. Jennifer Hillman is up

3 next and Kyla Smith is standing by. Jennifer

4 or Kyla. 

5 MS. SMITH: I'm not Jennifer, I'm

6 Kyla. Okay, so - and I'm also not going to be

7 speaking about GMOs. That's an error. Okay,

8 so good afternoon. My name is Kyla Smith and

9 I am the policy director at Pennsylvania

10 Certified Organic. I am here to give voice to

11 our tree fruit producers regarding the Crops

12 Committee's recommendation to not re-list

13 streptomycin for the use of fire blight

14 control in apples and pears. I will also only

15 be speaking about streptomycin because more of

16 our producers grow apples and tetracycline is

17 not labeled for use on apples in Pennsylvania.

18 And just to be clear, Pennsylvania Certified

19 Organic is not taking a position one way or

20 another on this material. I am simply

21 conveying the opinions of our producers.

22 Most of our producers have
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1 indicated that they do use other means to

2 fight fire blight such as planting resistant

3 varieties in order to not have to rely only on

4 the use of antibiotics in their organic system

5 plans. It should also be noted that most of

6 our farmers do not apply streptomycin willy7 nilly in their orchards. However, due to the

8 somewhat mysterious disease they do use this

9 material when models indicate a severe

10 infection is probable in an effort to save

11 their orchards. It was stated in many written

12 comments that more research should be done by

13 the USDA through its research programs and the

14 NOP to help producers find alternatives to

15 antibiotics in treating this disease in

16 plants. Our producers agree with these

17 sentiments. As other commenters have

18 indicated this research is under way but has

19 yet to result in a viable commercially

20 available alternative. Many of our producers

21 have indicated that if this backup tool is not

22 available to them they will likely have to
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1 begrudgingly give up organic production as to

2 not face the alternative of losing their

3 livelihood in order to preserve their organic

4 certification. And I'll just end by thanking

5 you all for all of your time to address not

6 only this difficult issue but all of the

7 important issues on the docket. Thank you.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Kyla.

9 Questions? All right. Thanks very much.

10 Okay, Jennifer Hillman? All right, next up

11 then is John Hyer. Next up after John, it

12 looks like he's not here, Katharine Rode.

13 Lots of cancellations today. Next up will be

14 Lynn Coody and Marty Mesh standing by.

15 MS. COODY: Hello all. My name is

16 Lynn Coody and today I'm presenting testimony

17 on behalf of National Organic Coalition. And

18 my testimony is on limited use of antibiotics

19 for fire blight. In principle NOC is opposed

20 to the ongoing use of antibiotics in organic

21 agriculture. However, while NOC applauds the

22 Crop Committee's recommendation of a complete
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1 prohibition, after consultation with multiple

2 stakeholders NOC proposes a plan for limited

3 continued use of antibiotics for controlling

4 fire blight. Specifically, NOC proposes a

5 time-limited extension for the use of

6 antibiotics coupled with an immediate

7 restriction of the materials' use. In

8 addition, NOC proposes a series of policies

9 designed to mitigate difficulties related to

10 the eventual prohibition of antibiotics.

11 NOC's plan has four main points. I'll be

12 discussing three of them and my colleague

13 Steve Etka will take the fourth. 

14 So the first point I'd like to

15 bring up is we urge the NOSB to include an

16 annotation on the national list for both

17 antibiotic materials that includes two topics.

18 The first is extending the period of use for

19 both antibiotic materials for three years

20 until January 2014 so that tree fruit growers

21 have a chance to gain experience with using

22 the new protectant products that are being
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1 developed and to begin planting root stocks

2 and varieties that are resistant to fire

3 blight. Secondly, we urge the annotation to

4 restrict antibiotics - the use of antibiotics

5 to cases in which the grower has implemented

6 both monitoring and management practices

7 consistent with NOP's pest control hierarchy

8 in section 205.206 that includes choices of

9 appropriate varieties for, quote, "resistance

10 to prevalent diseases" unquote.

11 Point two of NOC's plan is for the

12 NOP to provide guidance to be implemented at

13 every level of NOP's oversight system which

14 would include providing detailed requirements

15 for phasing out antibiotics. For operators,

16 NOP would specify specific information that

17 must be included in operators' OSPs to

18 demonstrate good faith, comprehensive efforts

19 to comply with the pest control hierarchy

20 designed to prevent or limit use of

21 antibiotics. For certifiers, the guidance

22 would include requirements to increase
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1 verification of efforts by growers to prevent

2 or limit use of antibiotics for controlling

3 fire blight and within its accreditation

4 system NOP would provide instructions to

5 auditors for increased assessment of

6 certifiers' efforts to oversee implementation

7 of section 206 by growers. For example,

8 through auditors choosing tree fruit

9 operations for file checks and witness audits

10 during their visits to certification bodies.

11 The third point I'd like to

12 address is a fire blight task force. NOC

13 proposes that during this additional period in

14 which antibiotics would be allowed that the

15 NOSB convene a fire blight task force that

16 would include participants from the industry

17 as well as agricultural resources and that the

18 task force would report annually in person to

19 the NOSB. And we gave a bunch of information

20 about the topics, et cetera, in our written

21 comments. That's it, thank you.

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Lynn.
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1 Any questions for Lynn Coody? We'll start

2 with John Foster, then Jay Feldman, then Nick

3 Maravell.

4 MR. FOSTER: Thanks, Lynn. Do you

5 - when you were proposing kind of the

6 annotation that included mandatory

7 preventative and monitoring functions.

8 MS. COODY: Yes.

9 MR. FOSTER: Do you have personal

10 knowledge of anyone not doing that right now?

11 MS. COODY: I think that most

12 growers are doing that now as far as the

13 growers that I know about. Of course, I'm

14 from the Pacific Northwest where we already

15 have a very difficult problem with the

16 resistance of fire blight bacteria to

17 streptomycin. That's already been reduced,

18 you know, it's been taken out of our toolbox

19 so now it's very - we have to use Terramycin

20 very carefully. So I think most growers that

21 I'm aware of personally are using those

22 things. What's not happening though is the
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1 use specifically of the varieties that are

2 resistant to fire blight. The industry has

3 generally moved away from that and I feel that

4 it's not - that is an area where the

5 certification bodies as well as operators and

6 the accreditation body could be implementing

7 the pest control hierarchy more successfully.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: John with a

9 follow-up question.

10 MR. FOSTER: How did you arrive at

11 the date you propose? What is - is there

12 science there and if so, what is it?

13 MS. COODY: No, not really

14 science. What it is is before it would be

15 sunsetting again. We went through a bunch of

16 different scenarios. It's - there have been -

17 we didn't want it to go out five years because

18 that's basically sunsetting again. We wanted

19 it to be a restriction, a further restriction

20 as we stated on the process. So basically

21 it's a policy decision as opposed to a

22 scientific one.
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1 MR. FOSTER: Thank you.

2 MS. COODY: You're welcome, John.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up, Jay.

4 MR. FELDMAN: Thanks, Lynn. As

5 you know - well, tell us what you know.

6 MS. COODY: Everything that I

7 know?

8 MR. FELDMAN: Tell us everything.

9 You have three minutes or two minutes. I'm

10 trying to present this as a question.

11 MS. COODY: Okay, go for it. It's

12 like Jeopardy.

13 MR. FELDMAN: Yes. The issue of

14 consumer expectation is - how deep is that in

15 the statute? The report language and the

16 statutory history on OFPA. How deep is the

17 consumer expectation which we haven't heard

18 much about, but I know NOC has consumer groups

19 in its membership. How deep is that consumer

20 expectation issue in terms of our decision21 making process here and how do you reconcile

22 public expectation, what some people have
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1 discussed as public expectation on the use of

2 this, including Maria Rodale's book Organic

3 Manifesto which identifies no antibiotics used

4 in organic production. How do we - those of

5 us that are trying to bridge consumer-farmer

6 interests, how do we reconcile the expectation

7 issue here on no use of antibiotics in organic

8 food production?

9 MS. COODY: Well, the issue of

10 antibiotics in organic systems has certainly

11 been controversial since we were writing the

12 OFPA, you know, many years ago. I think that

13 it's - there is provision for - obviously for

14 use of these materials for many years because

15 there hasn't been an alternative. What NOC is

16 trying to do is to push the NOSB to move

17 forward on a restriction so that it's not just

18 the same thing over and over again, the same

19 repeat of the sunset period similar to

20 methionine. We're trying to propose kind of

21 a compromise solution to move forward and to

22 give, as Steve will speak about in a few
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1 minutes, policy tools to help this be

2 implemented. So we're trying to come to a

3 compromise between concerns of consumers and

4 the needs of farmers. And NOC did so after

5 carefully listening to a number of different

6 stakeholders over multiple meetings and trying

7 to listen to everybody. So this is our best

8 shot at a middle ground that could be workable

9 and also move the industry forward.

10 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. And

11 one more question.

12 MS. COODY: Oh, one more. Sorry.

13 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Nick Maravell.

14 MS. COODY: Nick, okay.

15 MR. MARAVELL: I'd like to find

16 out a little bit more about the task force

17 that you're talking about and maybe I could

18 break it down into a few little questions so

19 you get an idea of what my curiosity is about.

20 MS. COODY: Okay.

21 MR. MARAVELL: One is does - is

22 this something that necessarily needs to be
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1 convened by the NOSB because you're suggesting

2 that we convene such a task force. And I'm

3 going to say that have you considered that

4 that task force could be convened by the

5 industry as opposed to the NOSB. The second

6 question - well, maybe you can answer that.

7 Would that be?

8 MS. COODY: I think that there

9 already is kind of a de facto task force both

10 on the east side of the country, the west side

11 of the country and in the middle of

12 researchers and growers working together on

13 this problem for a long time. What's been

14 missing I feel, or one piece that's been

15 missing is the will of the USDA and the NOP to

16 really enforce or to support that with money

17 and with political will to really make this

18 happen. And again, this is Steve's thing to

19 talk about, not mine, so you can even ask him

20 more about that.

21 MR. MARAVELL: Well, then tell me

22 if my next question is more for Steve. You're
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1 suggesting status reports to the NOSB.

2 MS. COODY: Yes, that's true.

3 MR. MARAVELL: And that might be

4 helpful, but I would think that

5 recommendations more broadly directed to USDA

6 seems more of what you're talking about. And

7 I was just wondering if that could be recast,

8 that this task force might perhaps be recast

9 to be oriented in that direction to influence

10 a broader USDA policy. And then my final

11 question is probably for Steve then is what

12 are we talking about here in terms of

13 necessary resources. Is there any handle on

14 that?

15 MS. COODY: Well, if I can

16 remember these questions. The first - one of

17 the reasons we suggested this task force is

18 that there is kind of a previous precedent for

19 it with the methionine task force where they

20 came and reported their progress. It was not

21 only a good exercise for the producers and the

22 researchers, it was also great for the NOSB to
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1 be continually prodded to think about the

2 policy implications and gosh, now it's three

3 years, now it's two years, now it's one year,

4 uh oh, you know, you have to make a decision.

5 So for that reason we felt like it was

6 important for annual quick updates similar to

7 what Emily gave this morning about the inerts

8 process to come directly to the board. 

9 You're really going to like what

10 Steve has to say because I think you're really

11 talking a lot about these policies that we're

12 proposing that are very specific and clear.

13 We've actually seen some places where funding

14 was actually considered but not given to a

15 project that was designed to help finding

16 alternatives for fire blight. So Steve will

17 be welcomed by you I'm sure. Okay, thanks so

18 much.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Lynn.

20 Any further questions? Okay. Marty Mesh.

21 And after Marty we are going to take a short

22 recess.
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1 MR. MESH: You could do that now

2 if you want. Because I hadn't written the

3 final draft. Don't start the clock yet.

4 Okay. So, Marty Mesh. No time to say thanks

5 to the program, welcome to the new board

6 members and absolutely no time for humor. I

7 started farming organically in '72, Bellevue

8 Organic Gardens formed in '76, FOG we formed

9 in 1987 as a non-profit and we operate QCS, a

10 certification program that certifies

11 nationally and internationally.

12 I'm increasingly concerned that

13 the program in its strict yet sensible

14 approach has lost the balance and needs to

15 focus some more attention on the sensible

16 side. We have revoked certification and

17 pulled land out of organic production because

18 of an innocent mistake that did not affect

19 organic integrity, something certifiers would

20 have never done before the National Organic

21 Program and accreditation audits that don't

22 think past regulatory words to the intent and
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1 common sense, part of the NOP's instructions

2 according to the auditors. A farmer whose kid

3 gets sick and sends a worker to pick up and

4 apply Bt could find their whole farm receiving

5 a death sentence of the Bt is the wrong kind.

6 Almost no farm can survive going back through

7 transition, growing organically and selling

8 conventionally again. Every responsible

9 certifier has stories, inputs that have had a

10 material used as an inert in an ingredient in

11 another ingredient that ultimately could

12 result in the whole herd of cows or the whole

13 vegetable farm or the whole orchard losing its

14 organic status. A sticker, an inert, there's

15 plenty of examples. Let's look at willful

16 violations, the severity, the intent and not

17 issue farms death sentences because of an

18 unintentional application. 

19 The program needs a board

20 recommendation I believe because they're

21 running scared from what will happen if

22 consumer and environmental organizations react
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1 to it. But all the consumer and environmental

2 organizations that I've talked to understand

3 the issue and support some type of common

4 sense approach. The use of requirements ISO

5 65 as a basis for certifiers to determine

6 major and minor violations, maybe asking three

7 or four questions. Does it affect the product

8 integrity? Was it willful? Can it be fixed?

9 And is it a repeat violation? There could be

10 verification through the accreditation system.

11 The - so the non-organic okra

12 status update is available upon questioning.

13 I'd be happy to give it but I don't want to

14 waste my time now. Oh, that's hard. The -

15 I'm concerned how the program will interact

16 with FDA's leafy green marketing association

17 proposed rule that'll be put out this week.

18 And NOP will have a seat at the table and

19 whether or not they truly represent all

20 organic leafy greens growers and the work

21 being done by FDA relating to compost is on

22 the table and will be heard soon I believe.
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1 Business decisions based upon the NOP saying

2 that you could certify organic shrimp and you

3 know people implemented those business

4 decisions are still being felt like the

5 program itself was supposed to engage in

6 expedited rulemaking. That was many years

7 ago. All those farms are bankrupt now.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Marty, we're at

9 the 3-minute mark.

10 MR. MESH: I didn't even see the

11 one minute. Sorry. Man. Well. So maybe

12 we'd have the proxies now that we're ahead of

13 schedule?

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Let's have that

15 talk at the break. Anyone have a question for

16 Marty Mesh?

17 MR. MESH: Like the organic okra

18 thing, Katrina? I'm telling you.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: It's 3 o'clock on

20 the button right now and we will take a 15-

21 minute break and I see Lisa flagging me down

22 here.
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1 MS. AHRAMJIAN: If we skipped over

2 anyone because you weren't in the room please

3 come up and see me at the break and we'll

4 insert you back into the list of speakers.

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thanks, Lisa.

6 Okay, let's make it about 17 minutes after.

7 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter

8 went off the record at 3:02 p.m. and resumed

9 at 3:20 p.m.)

10 CHAIR MIEDEMA: We're back in

11 session and I just broke the gavel. All

12 right. A couple of announcements. If you

13 missed your time slot earlier please do

14 approach Lisa Ahramjian at the front table

15 here and we'll get you shifted back into a

16 spot. Right now we're about 45 minutes ahead

17 of schedule which ties out pretty closely to

18 the number of cancellations we've had today.

19 So what we will do if we have a little time

20 left over at the end of the day is we'll ask

21 NOSB members to please stick around for some

22 amount of time and allow for a first-ever
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1 informal ability to visit with one another,

2 ask questions of NOSB members directly.

3 Something like that sound agreeable to folks

4 here on the NOSB? Okay. All right. So we

5 are going to go ahead and resume our public

6 testimony and begin with - Lisa, would you

7 mind scrolling down, please? Our first

8 speaker is Matt O'Hare. And standing by,

9 Jackie Bowen. Thank you.

10 MR. O'HARE: Hi, my name's Matt

11 O'Hare with Vital Farms. We are made up of

12 eight family farms raising laying hens on

13 pasture for organic egg production. Our birds

14 live outdoors. We have the - Lisa? You got

15 my - stop the clocks. There we go. Wow,

16 that's weird. Wrong color. You can go on to

17 the next slide. Our birds live outdoors

18 during daylight hours with indoor access

19 instead of indoors with outdoor access. I'd

20 like to start by dispelling the notion that 2

21 feet, 5 feet, even 20 square feet outdoor

22 access per birds will allow for any vegetative
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1 cover at all. It's been our experience that

2 hens consuming approximately 20 square feet of

3 pasture per bird, each bird will consume about

4 20 square feet of pasture each week. If left

5 on the same 20 square feet that area will

6 resemble a moonscape after between 5 and 14

7 days and will remain barren from that time

8 forward. On this photo on the screen you'll

9 see that the birds on the left, they consume

10 20 square feet per bird in about five days.

11 There's pasture on the right is what it looked

12 like five days earlier. The pasture - birds

13 also have to be rotated frequently in order to

14 stay in a vegetative - for the pasture to stay

15 vegetative. This means that it takes at least

16 100 square feet to 400 square feet per bird

17 outdoors to provide adequate pasture.

18 Otherwise, either the birds - either they're

19 not going outdoors at all or they're living on

20 a barren moonscape. So in the terms of

21 outdoor access that the Livestock Committee

22 has proposed, we support any increase at all
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1 in the fixed housing in the outdoor access

2 standards, but we firmly believe that the

3 proposals do not go far enough. 

4 While outdoors, hens often

5 interact with wild birds as nature intended.

6 It's not natural or necessary to separate the

7 two, especially if the hens are not living a

8 stressed lifestyle from overcrowded factory

9 farm conditions. Humans are more likely to

10 get sick after spending just a few hours in a

11 crowded airline than they are being outdoors

12 in the fresh air. We ask the NOSB to ask the

13 FDA to remove any wild bird separation

14 requirements on outdoor areas. And the newly

15 enacted egg law makes it pretty impossible.

16 The use of confined cages, including so-called

17 aviary devices we believe should be forbidden

18 by the NOSB if the birds are confined.

19 Calculation of the square foot space should be

20 the floor space only. And also for mobile

21 poultry units used outdoors, these provide

22 birds with a place to sleep only in a lot of
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1 cases and with options for the birds to

2 instead sleep elsewhere. There should be no

3 minimum space requirement on these types of

4 structures.

5 Lastly, the NOSB, we hope that

6 they would enact some type of egg testing

7 program that would determine if a producer is

8 in fact producing and/or selling organic eggs

9 versus a mislabeled one as we've been hearing

10 a lot of lately. Such a program could

11 eliminate fraudulently sold eggs from entering

12 the market and could lead to legal action

13 against any producer who does so. Such cases

14 have arisen in the EU. A number of cases,

15 including a recent UK case where the violator

16 received a 3-year prison term and 3 million

17 pound fine. The EU takes adherence -

18 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Sorry.

19 MR. O'HARE: - to the organic

20 standards very seriously and we would hope

21 that this committee does as well. Thank you.

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any
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1 questions? Thank you very much. Next up,

2 Jackie Hodge.

3 MS. HODGE: Good afternoon. I'm

4 here to talk yet again about antibiotics and

5 fire blight. I'm here representing the

6 Midwest Organic Tree Fruit Association. It's

7 about 50 farmers that are working together to

8 look at being able to continue to grow

9 organically in the Midwest different tree

10 fruits. I'm also representing my family's

11 farm which is about 45 acres and we have about

12 50 varieties of apples along with

13 strawberries, raspberries, blackberries,

14 blueberries, plums, apricots, grapes,

15 chickens, pigs, many things. We want to work

16 with the NOSB to be sure that there's a

17 balance between the challenges of developing

18 and maintaining organic standards with the

19 reality of farming tree fruits organically.

20 One of the major challenges that you've been

21 hearing about today is the bacterial disease

22 called fire blight. There are horticultural
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1 practices that can greatly reduce the risk of

2 fire blight but if an infection occurs an

3 antibiotic is currently the only cure. The

4 Crops Committee has recommended that

5 streptomycin, an antibiotic that we have used

6 for fire blight infection, sunset and no

7 longer be available for fire blight control in

8 pears or apples. 

9 The Organic Tree Fruit Association

10 agrees with the Crop Committee that the use of

11 antibiotics in tree fruit production should be

12 phased out. We feel the integrity of organic

13 fruit production requires this synthetic

14 substance be limited and eventually - and the

15 key word is eventually - be banned. The

16 industry has had time to find alternatives and

17 products to protect the trees and develop root

18 stocks that are field immune to fire blight.

19 Now we need the time to implement these new

20 products and programs and get the resistant

21 root stocks on the market. During this

22 additional time we request that - we feel that
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1 streptomycin should be used in only post

2 infection curative applications. So what that

3 means is we use the disease modeling but still

4 only spray after a proven infection, not in

5 anticipation of an infection. So the Organic

6 Tree Fruit Association requests an annotation

7 to the current streptomycin rule to limit the

8 use of the antibiotic to post infection use

9 only. We would like this limited use to be

10 allowed for five years while growers learn to

11 use the new protectant products and begin

12 planting field immune root stocks. 

13 The Crops Committee cited four

14 issues in their recent decision to remove

15 streptomycin. The first issue was evidence

16 that streptomycin can contribute to antibiotic

17 resistance in human pathogens when used as

18 pesticides on a plant. Limiting the

19 application to post infection will reduce the

20 number of applications used to treat

21 infections. Additional products are available

22 and you've heard about those and that they're
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1 getting close and we'll be able to use those.

2 The choice of resistant root stocks was

3 another point you made and they are available

4 but really limited available and what we've

5 had to do is order root stock and try to graft

6 our own trees which then takes even longer to

7 get into production. And fire blight

8 resistant to streptomycin in some apple

9 productions is widely found, so you've heard

10 a lot from the West Coast producers. And in

11 my area streptomycin works. I'm able to use

12 a post infection spray rather than a

13 preventative spray so I would prefer to use

14 streptomycin. And so I guess I can end there

15 because my three minutes is just about up.

16 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

17 questions? Jay Feldman.

18 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you. You

19 heard the National Organic Coalition proposal

20 for the transition, the 3-year.

21 MS. HODGE: I could live with

22 that. In fact, we participated in some of
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1 their conference calls related to the issues

2 when she talked about the fact that there were

3 people from the west and the east and in the

4 middle, we were the ones in the middle.

5 MR. FELDMAN: Right. Thank you.

6 MS. HODGE: So that would be okay.

7 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Next

9 up is Steve Etka and Madelyn Rode is standing

10 by.

11 MR. ETKA: Hello. My name is

12 Steve Etka. I'm legislative - 

13 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Steve, I'm sorry

14 to interrupt. I need to make a correction.

15 MR. ETKA: You want Michael

16 instead?

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Let's see. I'm

18 going to go ahead and let you go. I just want

19 to make sure the person who's on deck knows

20 that they're on deck.

21 MR. ETKA: Okay.

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: So Michael Sligh,
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1 you are on deck. You in the room?

2 MR. ETKA: He's right back there.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay. Thank you.

4 I'm sorry, please proceed.

5 MR. ETKA: No problem. My name is

6 Steve Etka. I'm legislative director for the

7 National Organic Coalition. I want to build

8 on the comments made earlier by my colleagues

9 Liana Hoodes and Lynn Coody also on behalf of

10 NOC. I'd like to argue that the situation in

11 which we find ourselves in terms of the

12 antibiotic use issue on tree fruit is a

13 teachable moment for the organic community and

14 that the NOSB is in a very influential

15 position to help us learn from these mistakes

16 and to prevent similar future mistakes.

17 The question is how did we get as

18 an organic community to a place where apple

19 and pear growers have no alternatives but to

20 use antibiotics in order to fight fire blight

21 in spite of the strong concerns of consumers

22 to the use of antibiotics in food production
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1 because of the relationship with antibiotic

2 resistance in humans. Organic is a demand3 driven label and if we're not attentive to the

4 concerns of consumers we threaten the

5 integrity of the label and the growth of the

6 industry. Fire blight is not new, consumer

7 concerns about antibiotic use in food

8 production is not new, the sunset process is

9 not net and yet we're faced with this awful

10 dilemma of either responding to consumer

11 concerns or threatening the viability of

12 organic apple and pear growers as if these

13 problems had not been anticipated. There are

14 things we can do to get ahead of these

15 situations and there are things that USDA can

16 do to help that process as well. For example,

17 USDA has research funding focused specifically

18 on organic agriculture whether it be the OREI

19 program or the Organic Transition Program.

20 USDA should be able to support research into

21 alternative ways of treating fire blight. And

22 yet we've heard that a proposal to OREI to
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1 fund research on a yeast-based alternative was

2 turned down. And we also in the organic

3 community have been pushing USDA to fund

4 classical plant and animal breeding through

5 the AFRI research program to develop new

6 locally adapted cultivars for many crops and

7 yet USDA has been resistant and reluctant to

8 do this. USDA research funding should be able

9 to help in the process of breeding new

10 cultivars and root stock that are resistant to

11 fire blight. But NOSB's main role obviously

12 under the OFPA is to focus on materials, but

13 I believe your voice can be quite influential

14 at USDA as well in making recommendations in

15 areas where USDA research can have a positive

16 impact on the materials decisions that you all

17 are having to make.

18 Therefore, NOC is recommending

19 that the board write to the Secretary and urge

20 that USDA research programs such as OREI and

21 Organic Transitions Program and the AFRI

22 program be used to help find alternative
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1 treatments for fire blight and to help develop

2 fire blight-resistant apples and pear

3 varieties. And since we'd be foolhardy to

4 think this situation will not repeat itself in

5 the future in the context of some other

6 disease or some other crop I hope that we can

7 all get ahead of the curve to see what similar

8 problems are coming down the pike and to work

9 with the industry and with USDA to give the

10 resources - to get the resources to breed and

11 release new resistant cultivars and to develop

12 natural treatments when the disease can't be

13 avoided.

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

15 questions for Steve Etka? Jay and then Nick.

16 MR. FELDMAN: Thanks, Steve. I

17 have a question about the flip side of this is

18 the consumer side. And knowing USDA the way

19 you do what could USDA do to educate consumers

20 about their food choices and the impact they

21 have on the pressure that growers feel to grow

22 certain varieties? Is there anything that you
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1 could creatively imagine a government could do

2 to combat what many have characterized to us

3 as a consumer-driven problem?

4 MR. ETKA: Well, I think many

5 consumers would be surprised to know that

6 there are antibiotics being used on apples.

7 I think there's very much a big demand for the

8 Fuji and Gala varieties. But I think they're

9 also surprised to learn that growers don't

10 have any alternatives if they want to provide

11 those varieties in an organic way. I think

12 it's possible to use the OREI program or some

13 of these other research programs to try to

14 bring the consumer understanding and - and the

15 producer understanding together and to work

16 with consumer groups to try to get them to be

17 part of the solution in terms of pushing USDA

18 to help develop alternatives.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Nick?

20 MR. MARAVELL: Steve, I'm trying

21 to get a handle on what level of resources

22 would be needed over the next five or ten
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1 years to address this. And I know this is -

2 you're not the research expert here, but have

3 you heard of anything - or let me rephrase

4 that somewhat differently. You and I have had

5 some communication about how much USDA

6 research is devoted to organic research right

7 now. Are you suggesting that the additional

8 effort would come out of those funds and what

9 size do you see those funds and what would be

10 an appropriate effort out of those funds? I'm

11 trying to get a handle on how realistic is

12 this in today's budget environment. 

13 MR. ETKA: Well, I think it's very

14 realistic because the organic community as a

15 whole is making a point about fair share of

16 research dollars going to organic and that's

17 the big overall umbrella. What I'm talking

18 about is related to that but much more

19 specific in that the last farm bill within the

20 AFRI program which is the big competitive

21 grants research program at USDA, it's not

22 organic-specific, it's overall umbrella, there
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1 was a requirement that one of the priorities

2 in that program be focused on development of

3 new cultivars using classical breeding

4 techniques. And USDA has really not done

5 that. They've given some lip service to that

6 but it has not resulted in any new cultivar

7 development work. And that's exactly the type

8 of situation that apple-growers are facing now

9 is that they don't have the varieties. And we

10 used to do a lot more research on developing

11 locally adapted varieties that are continually

12 evolving to get ahead of these diseases. And

13 we're in the position now where we're behind

14 the eight ball and it's as a result of the

15 lack of funding. And what we're saying is

16 prioritize these issues within the existing

17 funding that's there and then additionally do

18 more overall.

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: All right, thank

20 you very much. We are at our five minutes

21 here.

22 MR. ETKA: Thanks.
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Is Jennifer here?

2 MR. MCEVOY: Sorry for the

3 interruption. I'd like to introduce Jennifer

4 Taylor, the new - newest I guess NOSB board

5 member. So welcome, Jennifer, and thanks.

6 (Applause)

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Welcome, Jennifer.

8 You're catching us deep into day one. Thanks

9 for being here and weathering your travels

10 today. Earlier today we each went around the

11 room and gave a very brief biologic - or

12 biographical - whoa. Biographical

13 introduction, just a, you know, a minute or

14 so. Would you mind introducing yourself?

15 Thank you.

16 MS. TAYLOR: Hello. Thank you so

17 very much for the opportunity to become a

18 member of the National Organic Standards

19 Board. Thank you so much. And thank you for

20 the opportunity to work with you and to serve

21 you as well. My name is Jennifer Taylor. I'm

22 from Florida A&M University. I'm coordinator
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1 of Small Farm Programs at Florida A&M

2 University. 

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. All

4 right.

5 (Applause)

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Let's go ahead

7 with our public testimony. Next up is Michael

8 Sligh and we have John Hyer standing by.

9 MR. SLIGH: I'm a southern boy so

10 I get a little more time, is that right? We

11 talk slower. A couple of you agree. Thank

12 you for this opportunity. I sat in your chair

13 in the last century, 1992, and I wish to both

14 thank you for answering this call to service

15 and to help the organic community. I know

16 well the sacrifices that you make in doing so.

17 We've just celebrated the

18 twentieth anniversary of the Organic Foods

19 Production Act. I thought I would use this

20 milestone as an opportunity for us to all

21 remember why this board is so unique and what

22 is this historical context that we find
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1 ourselves in. Why is this law the way it is

2 and what is our duty and where does it lie?

3 We are a citizens board with the duty of being

4 stewards and guardians of organic integrity.

5 The NOSB and the OFPA Act are indeed unique on

6 purpose because of a very lively public debate

7 we had during the legislative process in the

8 late 1980s on how to create checks and

9 balances to prevent any one segment of the

10 community from dominating, how to keep the NOP

11 from running wild, how would we have a

12 partnership that was both public and private

13 that did not reinvent the wheel but actually

14 steered off this largest organic community in

15 terms of its needs and draws on its wisdom.

16 You need to maximize your transparency and

17 sunshine, and you need to get ahead of the

18 curve. The longer the window of public access

19 to comment and longer window you have of

20 deliberations, the better the outcome. I

21 strongly urge you to make public the committee

22 deliberations, your committee recommendations,
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1 your TAP reviews, your TRs, get that out

2 there, make it public in a timely manner. 

3 You also need to publicly declare

4 and formally check for any conflicts of

5 interest prior to you voting on any materials.

6 You're here to ensure the continuous quality

7 improvement of organic and to grow the market,

8 but you can't get lost in the weeds. You must

9 ground your decisions and your debates around

10 the principles of organic. We are here to

11 promote this and to create this safe haven for

12 consumers, for farmers, for handlers who want

13 a healthy, sane alternative. Your debate must

14 be grounded in this bigger context. Don't

15 vote any material if you don't have a full

16 TAP, if all your criteria haven't been fully

17 answered. This is your touchstone to look at

18 this system of sustainable agriculture.

19 That's one of the most important criteria.

20 That's really your touchstone when you get

21 lost, you know, is it compatible. We're not

22 here to generate a random list of materials or
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1 inputs, but to create a rational appropriate

2 system that is the sane alternative to

3 agribusiness as usual. To be clear, the NOSB

4 does have the sole responsibility for adding

5 materials, but the NOP can also take it away

6 if you get it wrong.

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Michael? Thank

8 you.

9 MR. SLIGH: Use both. So -

10 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Does anyone have a

11 question for Mr. Sligh? Jay Feldman.

12 MR. FELDMAN: Michael, just a

13 little more detail on what you're recommending

14 on the disclosure, you know, conflict of

15 interest disclosure. What's the mechanics of

16 that and how should it be -

17 MR. SLIGH: Well, you have it in

18 your policy but you need to actualize it in

19 the public domain, in the meeting itself. And

20 I would suggest that you would have an annual

21 form that each of you would fill out to

22 declare any conflict you might have over a
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1 particular material. And then when the vote

2 comes someone, maybe the chair, someone, maybe

3 USDA would say are there any conflicts and you

4 guys would be transparent about that. It's

5 very important because you have statutory

6 authority. You will be held responsible and

7 so you really want to do this in a way where

8 we are not in any position being threatened

9 because of a conflict of interest.

10 MR. FELDMAN: Is that before the

11 vote? May I ask.

12 MR. SLIGH: I think it would be.

13 I mean that's -

14 MR. FELDMAN: Before the debate or

15 where in the process?

16 MR. SLIGH: Well, I think clearly

17 before you would vote, but I think you would

18 probably do it - I don't know, to be honest,

19 Jay, exactly where you should start, but if

20 you did it on an annual basis and it was

21 transparent and you should ask each other

22 where is your comfort level. We did that in
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1 the past. Sometimes we would say well you

2 know, that's not really a conflict, you know,

3 but you should do that and be transparent.

4 That's what I'm seeing not happening and I

5 think it would be important to demonstrate

6 that formally.

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Katrina.

8 MS. HEINZE: Okay, so I get how

9 conflict of interest works for someone like

10 me, right, because I work for a handler, we

11 use ingredients. How has that worked in the

12 past for folks who work perhaps for

13 organizations or represent groups that

14 advocate for certain positions? I remember,

15 you know, we've had this conversation while

16 I've been on the board for five years and

17 every time it comes up there's an

18 acknowledgment that we're here because we have

19 a bias and we represent those biases. So I'm

20 just trying to figure out what this means in

21 real life for all of us.

22 MR. SLIGH: Yes, I think one of
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1 the main points that I didn't get to say

2 because of the three minutes is that really

3 the way we designed the board to not have any

4 one sector predominate was because we named

5 these different sectors. And so if you're

6 here as a consumer rep then that's the voice

7 that you need to be echoing and you need to

8 reach out to the consumer community and be

9 that advocate for that community in your slot

10 on the board. And that's the challenge I

11 think we have because if you don't play the

12 role that you were given in the slot it does

13 become problematic in terms of the conflicts

14 of interest. I mean, there's all conflicts

15 but I'm really getting down to whether or not

16 - and I don't know the fact, it may not be a

17 conflict. Maybe no one on this current board

18 has a conflict. Maybe none of you do, but we

19 don't know that and you need to convey that

20 absence to the public in a way that is

21 removing even the perception of conflict.

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you,
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1 Michael. 

2 MR. SLIGH: Good luck with your

3 deliberations. Thanks.

4 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay, next up is

5 John Hyer and Bridget O'Brien is standing by.

6 MR. HYER: Thank you. And I'll

7 disclose my conflict. I'm a farmer, I'm an

8 organic farmer, so you know my bias and where

9 I'm coming from. Fourteen years in organic

10 production, family farm, father, brother,

11 myself. Potatoes, carrots, peas, sweet corn,

12 small grains, so you have an idea of what

13 we're looking at. Specifically sodium nitrate

14 and removing the annotation. I'm in favor of

15 retaining the annotation, retaining the 20

16 percent level and the reason for that is that

17 we've used sodium nitrate in the past on

18 potatoes, carrots, sweet corn and find it to

19 be an effective source of nitrogen. We've

20 used other sources of nitrogen and have not

21 found them to be as effective when the plants

22 are in that growth stage when they need a
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1 quick shot of nitrogen to help them along. As

2 part of the recommendation you indicated that

3 there should be crop rotation, use of cover

4 crops such as mustards, clovers and vetch, and

5 application of plant and animal materials all

6 of which we do in our system plan, in our

7 organic system plan in our farming. We still

8 find the need for sodium nitrate to be used

9 from time to time. The other - we have used

10 the other products. It's mentioned there's

11 other products out there. We've used other

12 products and not found them to be as effective

13 and to get the same result from them. And so

14 with that said I would ask you to retain the

15 20 percent annotation on sodium nitrate. 

16 In terms of coppers we use copper

17 materials and they have proven very effective

18 as a late blight preventative in potato

19 production. We live in an area that that's a

20 prevalent problem and a concern and I do

21 support the re-listing of coppers. In our

22 particular system a field, a given organic
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1 site is receiving coppers once every eight to

2 ten years. I view the testing requirement as

3 excessive because I just don't see how we're

4 going to build up that fast, but I do support

5 the re-listing. Thank you.

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Steve.

7 MR. DEMURI: What part of the

8 country do you farm in?

9 MR. HYER: We farm in eastern

10 Washington. So 180 miles from here due east.

11 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Go ahead, Steve.

12 MR. DEMURI: And does - is sodium

13 nitrate more necessary in the west than it is

14 the rest of the country?

15 MR. HYER: Well, since I've only

16 ever farmed in the west I can only speak to

17 what we've found to be effective in our system

18 plan. I can't speak to the rest of the

19 country.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Nick.

21 MR. MARAVELL: You said you use

22 the sodium nitrate for a quick shot of
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1 nitrogen. Specifically which crops are you

2 using and at what stage of development and at

3 what time of year just so we have an

4 understanding of where your need comes in?

5 MR. HYER: What we find

6 specifically, I'll use sweet corn as an

7 example. You can have plenty of nutrients in

8 the soil be it from animal products, plant

9 products, cover crops and at the three to four

10 leaf stage the corn plant at least in our

11 climate conditions has a problem synthesizing

12 the available nitrogen and that sodium nitrate

13 which is three to four leaf stage when it

14 would be applied, it tends to get that plant

15 growing and allows the roots to go deeper,

16 pick up the nitrogen that is in the soil. We

17 also use it on potatoes prior to row closure

18 which would be about two months into the

19 growth cycle of the plant.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any more

21 questions? 

22 MR. HYER: Thank you.
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up is Bridget

2 O'Brien. Bridget, are you in the room?

3 Madelyn Rode is standing by. Then Michael Cox

4 is standing by. Michael, are you here?

5 MR. COX: Yes, I'm here.

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. 

7 MS. O'BRIEN: Hi. My name's

8 Bridget O'Brien. I don't work on a farm or

9 for an organic producer, I'm just a highly

10 opinionated private citizen that buys a lot of

11 organics, mostly organics actually. So I

12 realize that the synthetics topic has been

13 delayed and isn't going to be voted on at this

14 meeting and I find that a little bit

15 concerning since as I understand doing it is

16 creating an indefinite grace period in which

17 food processors can keep unapproved

18 ingredients in their products. So therefore

19 I'd like to urge you to move forward as

20 quickly as possible and for the USDA to begin

21 enforcement action to ensure that organic

22 foods are free of unwanted ingredients and
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1 unapproved ingredients even if they're

2 nutrients. I believe the majority of organic

3 consumers don't want synthetic ingredients of

4 any kind in their food, not even if they are

5 supposedly nutrients. As an organic consumer

6 if I want Vitamin C I eat an orange. If I

7 want beta-carotene I eat a carrot. If I want

8 iron I'm going to have a cheeseburger. You

9 know, it's real food. And I strongly suspect

10 that, you know, other organic consumers feel

11 the exact same way. So - and I suspect that

12 the actual motivation for synthetics being

13 proposed for inclusion in organic standards is

14 you know not due to them wanting to be able to

15 make our food healthier with their artificial

16 nutrients, but more so that the chemical

17 companies providing them can jump in on the

18 massive organic market and get their piece.

19 On a different topic I realize

20 genetic engineering is not on this agenda

21 either, but since they will inevitably

22 petition for inclusion at some point in the
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1 future again and since I have you here as a

2 captive audience I would simply like to say

3 that as a consumer I would never and I'm sure

4 most other organic consumers will never either

5 accept GMO inclusion into organics. So

6 without going off on a tangent which I easily

7 could just please keep that little nugget of

8 information in your mind when the subject does

9 come up because I believe it inevitably will

10 with the biotech pressure that squeezes down

11 on the USDA and the FDA to promote their

12 agenda we cannot depend on them to keep

13 genetically modified, untested, unproven

14 healthy items out of our food supply. So we

15 are reliant on you to at least keep them out

16 of the organics.

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

18 questions for Bridget? All right. Michael,

19 you're up next, Michael Cox, and Ken Johnson

20 is standing by.

21 MR. COX: Okay. I had a nice 5-

22 minute speech but since we went to three I
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1 threw it away and threw some random thoughts

2 together. My name is Michael Cox. I'm the

3 president of Arkansas Egg Company. We're a

4 dedicated organic egg operation in Summers,

5 Arkansas. My family's been in the egg

6 business for three generations. I appreciate

7 all your time and effort in ensuring that the

8 organic process is one that the consumers feel

9 worthy of. My primary concern is the

10 manipulation and erosion of the organic

11 standards in shell egg production. The egg

12 business in general is a highly fragmented,

13 rapidly consolidating, cannibalistic market

14 and the organic egg market is quickly on its

15 way to that. Egg producers operate on low

16 margins and high volume. It's the adoption of

17 this principle that is the main reason that

18 several major caged egg producers have

19 utilized aviary housing for organic

20 production. Furthermore, the absence of

21 specific standards pertaining to stocking

22 densities, indoor and out, as well as a lack
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1 of definition for soil has also contributed to

2 this and fueled the fire. 

3 There's a variation in organic egg

4 production today that's alarming. It ranges

5 from 85,000 birds in one house, 500,000 birds

6 on a farm, all the way down to 2,000 to 3,000

7 birds on a small family farm. The board needs

8 to follow with a proposed recommendations on

9 animal welfare. This is the only way to

10 ensure the spirit and intent of the law is

11 met. We have a unique opportunity to preserve

12 an environment where a producer with one barn

13 can compete with a producer who has a hundred

14 barns apples to apples. Anything less would

15 destroy the market for the consumer and the

16 producer alike. There's a vast majority of

17 producers who support change. They support

18 outdoors on soil and stocking densities at set

19 limits. These thoughts are echoed by probably

20 well over one hundred producers and well over

21 30 percent of the production. We need your

22 help to stand firm in the marketplace. 
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1 Lax standards have created an

2 environment where in the last five years we've

3 seen 3 to 5 percent of producers exploit

4 certain aspects of the standards and grow to

5 represent about 30 percent of the total

6 marketplace. If not stopped, this trend will

7 continue. It's ultimately - ultimately we

8 will begin to produce least cost or get out of

9 the business. A vast majority of grocery

10 buyers will speak with their pocketbooks and

11 their ideals second. We've got to get a

12 standard in place that allows for uniform and

13 consistent supply. 

14 And with my last few seconds I'd

15 just like to say that I think welfare does

16 matter in organic livestock production. I

17 think that's why eggs and milk have a higher

18 penetration than other items. Consumers can

19 speak with their emotions when they buy that

20 product and outdoor access is a part of that.

21 I also think that the FDA program should focus

22 on their objective inside the house and not on
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1 the pasture, and that you guys should echo

2 that opinion to them. Thank you.

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

4 questions? 

5 MR. COX: Thank you, guys.

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: All right. Ken

7 Johnson is up next and Phil Spiegel is

8 standing by. Phil, are you in the room? 

9 MR. JOHNSON: Hi, I'm Ken Johnson.

10 I'm from Oregon State. I've worked on fire

11 blight research now for 20 years and much of

12 it on alternative products. I just want to go

13 through the OMRI list for the alternatives we

14 have and why we're pessimistic about control

15 with those products that we have now. And if

16 you look at the screen there I've got stigmas

17 circled as one target of a product and the

18 floral cup circled as the other target of a

19 product. And next slide, please.

20 We have these beta bacteria Blight

21 Ban bloom time there. They're targeted early

22 bloom and we're looking to colonize the
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1 stigmas. That's where the pathogen increases

2 itself and then spreads flower to flower from

3 those populations that develop there. Then

4 that slides down into the floral cup. These

5 help to control fire blight but they're not

6 stand-alone products, they're about 30 to 50

7 percent effective generally. Next slide.

8 Late bloom is where

9 oxytetracycline fits in. In the Pacific

10 Northwest here it's our niche product. We

11 want it to sit down in the floral cup and it

12 does a good job of preventing infection.

13 Alternatives we have are Serenade Max and it

14 by itself is a very poor product. And we have

15 guys out there now slamming - in the IOP

16 program slamming trees with Serenade Max and

17 getting some results, but it just is not a

18 good product on its own. And then we have

19 this yeast that's coming along, Blossom

20 Protect, and we think it's also fitting into

21 this window. Next slide.

22 We get better control if we put
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1 the two products together, a stigma product

2 and a floral cup product. The examples I've

3 got up there are Bloom Time biological and

4 oxytetracycline, or a Bloom Time biological

5 and then the yeast which is sliding off the

6 screen there. Next slide. Here's an example.

7 Water is that blue bar on the bottom, almost

8 200 fire blight strikes on a tree.

9 Streptomycin is the top, it's a standard.

10 We're using a streptomycin-sensitive strain.

11 We see one Bloom Time, one oxytet giving

12 pretty good control. Then we see two Bloom

13 Times and two Blossom Protects giving really

14 pretty good control in our research blocks.

15 So you can see there that we've doubled the

16 number of treatments but with non-antibiotic

17 approaches we're getting pretty good control.

18 Next slide.

19 All right, so this is the issue we

20 have right now. We just started working with

21 the yeast and we don't really understand why

22 it's effective. That's number one. Number
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1 two, it's yet unregistered. Number three,

2 we've got a learning curve, lots and lots of

3 individuals are going to have to learn a new

4 way to control fire blight. There's many,

5 many people out there. Number four, the cost

6 of control is probably going to go up and I

7 don't know what impact that's going to have on

8 production but that's going to happen. And

9 then finally and it may be the most important

10 is this distribution of biologicals. And when

11 antibiotics go out to growers they get almost

12 the same product that we do as researchers.

13 When it comes to biologicals we're always

14 working with the very best products and I'm

15 not always sure that growers get the best

16 products when they get it on their farm from

17 the companies. And biologicals are much

18 harder to handle and they - and we get really

19 good stuff and I'm not sure that's always what

20 happens out there in the distribution chains.

21 So reinstating oxytet on the NOP list would

22 provide time to work through these issues.
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1 Thank you.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

3 questions? Okay, we'll start with Nick. 

4 MR. MARAVELL: I'd like to ask two

5 questions. One is you've been working on this

6 for 20 years so this is going to be a

7 continuum for you in terms of continuing to

8 work on it. Where do you see the timeline in

9 terms of the effectiveness of what you've

10 already identified in this presentation? Do

11 you need five years to bring that to a better

12 fruition? Do you need ten? And then the

13 second part of that is how many parts of the

14 country need to participate in the same type

15 of activity and what's your rough idea of

16 resources? In an order of magnitude. Are we

17 talking millions? Are we talking tens of

18 millions? What are we talking about?

19 MR. JOHNSON: I don't think we're

20 talking even millions. We've done pretty good

21 on this I think to date with pretty much a

22 shoestring budget over the years. We've been
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1 funded by grower groups in the Northwest here

2 and also by the USDA through these competitive

3 grant processes. And I think that grant

4 they're talking about is probably mine that

5 didn't get funded last year, but I don't know.

6 But I got it in again this year, right? So

7 the funding part of it isn't such a big issue

8 to me, it's more getting it to work at the

9 industry level on the big scale. I mean, we

10 are working in small plots, we're working with

11 quality materials and getting the materials to

12 work out there at the level of the, you know,

13 hundred acres or two hundred acres or whatever

14 you're talking about, that is a bigger trick

15 I think.

16 MR. MARAVELL: And the timeline

17 that you're seeing here?

18 MR. JOHNSON: Well, I think with

19 this yeast has been the most promising thing.

20 That kind of flew in the door here a couple of

21 years ago and it was really eye-opening to us.

22 It's not yet registered so the fact that we
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1 can't yet go out there and do these big-scale

2 trials and see what kind of colonization in

3 the flowers we're getting, that's probably the

4 most important thing. And then what is it

5 doing to the pathogen populations out there.

6 And this proposal everybody's talking about,

7 that's what this proposal's about and it sort

8 of is relying on the fact that this company is

9 going to get this material registered next

10 year to do these kind of evaluations. 

11 MR. MARAVELL: So you might see

12 like a 5-year to 10-year horizon on this? Or

13 2-year to 5-year?

14 MR. JOHNSON: I would say

15 somewhere in the three to five years would be

16 reasonable. 

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Go ahead, Jay.

18 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you. I have a

19 couple of questions. May I ask two? What is

20 the time to resistance for tetracycline that

21 you suspect from your experience?

22 MR. JOHNSON: I would say it's
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1 practically impossible. That's - I'm not

2 going to say it's impossible, completely

3 impossible, but we tried to select resistance

4 by mutation to the fire blight pathogen to

5 tetracycline and we can't do it. So it's not

6 something where like streptomycin about every

7 billion cells or so you get a mutation to

8 streptomycin resistance and that mutation also

9 doesn't harm the organism very much so they

10 can go out there and cause disease and be out

11 there and be resistant to strep. With

12 tetracycline we practically don't - we don't

13 see that, and it's been used now since the -

14 it's actually in the '50s was when oxytet was

15 first used. And people over the years have

16 suspected that they've had resistance to it

17 but no one has ever definitively shown it.

18 And the reason I think sometimes people

19 suspect it is that it doesn't work as well as

20 streptomycin does and as one grower that was

21 up here said, it's kind of a soft product but

22 it's still the best we have. But I don't
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1 think you can practically select resistance to

2 streptomycin. Or to tetracycline, excuse me.

3 MR. FELDMAN: And this phenomenon

4 we've heard about of the younger trees being

5 more susceptible than the older trees, is that

6 -

7 MR. JOHNSON: Absolutely true.

8 MR. FELDMAN: Absolutely true.

9 Thank you.

10 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Mac?

11 MR. STONE: What's recommended for

12 disposal of the plant material that's cut out

13 or rogued out?

14 MR. JOHNSON: Generally it's taken

15 to a burn material and moved to - at the edge

16 of the orchard and allowed to dry out or

17 doused with, you know, petroleum and then

18 burned. Yes. That is the recommendation. 

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: I have a question.

20 Mr. Johnson, your expertise on this matter has

21 been referred to many times today. Will you

22 be available tomorrow during committee
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1 deliberations?

2 MR. JOHNSON: I can do this. This

3 is actually - with our late spring this is

4 actually fire blight season and my plots are

5 going right now, but I can stay one more day.

6 I can do that, yes.

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

8 much. Okay. Next up is Phil Spiegel and

9 Edward Gildea is standing by.

10 MR. SPIEGEL: Hi, my name's Phil

11 Spiegel. I thank you very much for allowing

12 me to have a few minutes of fame here. I'm

13 the owner of Small Planet Organics currently

14 located on Vashon Island, Washington, and I've

15 been producing organic tofu for over 18 years

16 starting in eastern Washington and now

17 residing in western Washington, and I produce

18 along with Island Spring Organics also on

19 Vashon Island which has been doing organic

20 tofu for over 35 years. So between the two of

21 us we have over 50 years of experience and

22 we've been committed to organics from day one,
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1 and certified as soon as certifying was part

2 of our program. And we've been working with

3 the WSDA as our certifying agency, and as most

4 people know that was pretty much part of the

5 pilot for getting the national organic

6 standards put together. 

7 And what I wanted to come and

8 address today was the issue of GMOs which

9 everybody's real aware of now but over 90

10 percent of the soybeans grown in this country

11 are now GMOs so we pretty much have the most

12 threatened crop that we know of. And but it

13 doesn't mean we're taking it sitting down.

14 But there seems to be some confusion now. The

15 NOP states that non-GMOs are part of the

16 excluded methods on the list and everything,

17 but what's happening is there's other agencies

18 now that are coming up and saying that they

19 have to confirm that the products are non-GMO

20 but the organic standards from the NOP says

21 we're not supposed to have GMOs. So the

22 consumer's getting confused, the producer,
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1 we're not as confused but we're a little

2 miffed that now we've established long working

3 relationships with our organic certifying

4 agency and now - and putting together a lot of

5 time and energy for our documentation and

6 working relationships, and now there's another

7 agency, the non-GMO project, that's coming up

8 and saying well, you need to work with us so

9 that we can ensure consumers. So the

10 consumers are getting confused like wait a

11 minute, organic means non-GMO, but there's

12 this non-GMO project that says you've got to

13 be certified non-GMO. So there's some

14 confusion out there and I'm really here to try

15 to point out that maybe the NOP could empower

16 more the certifying agencies to work more

17 closely with us producers so that we can

18 totally assure people that if it's organic

19 it's non-GMO. If it's non-organic, sure,

20 another agency should be able to step in and

21 help that out, but if we've made this

22 commitment to being organic and non-GMOs is
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1 part of our stand on it, then working with the

2 agencies could be real helpful. And I've

3 worked very hard to establish working

4 relationships with the farmers that grow my

5 soybeans. I've been to their farms, I know

6 them personally and break bread with them all

7 the time and they're on the front lines trying

8 to protect our food. And we're doing

9 everything to support them and we need - we

10 need to just be able to take that and carry it

11 through so that producers can assure -

12 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you.

13 MR. SPIEGEL: - stores.

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

15 much. 

16 MR. SPIEGEL: Thank you.

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any questions for

18 Mr. Spiegel? Okay.

19 MR. SPIEGEL: Thank you.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Edward Gildea is

21 up next. Are you here, Mr. Gildea? Okay.

22 Perry Clutts. And Andrea Caroe is standing
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1 by.

2 MR. CLUTTS: My name is Perry

3 Clutts and thank you for the opportunity to

4 comment. This is my first visit to an NOSB

5 meeting and while I'm a member of several

6 organic farmer organizations and support the

7 recommendations to the NOSB, I feel it's

8 important for the board to hear personal

9 comments from individuals. My goal for the

10 meeting is to attend, watch the process take

11 place, participate in the process and decide

12 if the open producer position is something I

13 should pursue in the future. Our family's

14 organic dairy farm is in south central Ohio,

15 just south of Columbus, where we milk about

16 150 cross-bred cows on 430 acres of grass. My

17 family has been at this farm since 1899 and we

18 began participating in the program in 2007.

19 I concur with the eloquent description of the

20 problems with materials, vitamins and

21 nutrients sunset described by Deputy Secretary

22 Merrigan and appreciate the compromise and
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1 path forward laid out by Deputy Administrator

2 McEvoy in his subsequent speech.

3 As a livestock producer I would

4 also like to express concerns I have with

5 livestock living conditions. Specifically,

6 farmers should have the ability to size free

7 stalls and tie stalls specifically for

8 individual herds and cows, one stall, one cow.

9 Incorrectly sized stalls are detrimental to

10 livestock welfare. It's appropriate that

11 loose housing and bedded pack barns should

12 conform with the chart at the end of that

13 section. Having access to feed simultaneously

14 during the grazing season is not an animal

15 welfare concern. What is of concern is that

16 all cattle maintain good body condition.

17 Organic inspectors will be checking body

18 condition scores to verify adequate diet.

19 Therefore, space and competition are not

20 issues for cattle with good body condition

21 scores. Thank you for the consideration and

22 I appreciate the valuable work that NOSB does
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1 for the program.

2 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

3 questions for Mr. Clutts? Andrea Caroe is up

4 next and Titus Roth is standing by.

5 MS. CAROE: Good afternoon. I'm

6 Andrea Caroe and I'm a former chair of the

7 NOSB. And it's a pleasure to see a lot of my

8 good friends here. Congratulations to you,

9 Tracy. It's an honor to hold the gavel in

10 your hand and I am delighted to see you in

11 that position. The broken gavel. So I guess

12 I'm going to find out what it feels like to be

13 on the other side of the podium here.

14 First, a short comment. I support

15 the Handling Committee's recommendation to

16 allow fortification of organic food with what

17 I will call FDA-approved materials. I have

18 always believed that the board should approve

19 fortification materials as a category and do

20 so in a manner that conforms to FDA's

21 judgments just as we have done in the past

22 with other materials that are listed on the
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1 national list. However, the inclusion of

2 104.20 was a mistake. It was never any part

3 of the recommendation from the NOSB and should

4 not have been added. I agree that postponing

5 the decision to allow for greater input and

6 gathering the information about fortification

7 products consumers would want is helpful,

8 particularly in the areas of infant and

9 toddler products. 

10 My comment is more of a question

11 and it is posed to the NOP. Because I don't

12 understand the rush to judgment on this

13 important topic, let me be brief. In 2005 the

14 1st Circuit Court of Appeals declare that

15 synthetic materials in processed organic foods

16 were not authorized by the OFPA. The USDA

17 responded, exercising enforcement discretion

18 while the industry debated and eventually

19 obtained a change in the statute to correct

20 the OFPA. That took nearly a year to do and

21 during that time USDA obviously did not remove

22 products from the shelves until - despite the
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1 court ruling. Based on this precedent it

2 seems clear that the USDA can follow - can

3 allow the debate to continue and fix this

4 deeply flawed annotation once and for all. So

5 my question is if the board votes in the fall

6 and the NOP can't get the simple rulemaking

7 done before the sunset of this material would

8 NOP remove products and exercise - or exercise

9 its enforcement discretion like it has in

10 similar situations in the past? Thank you.

11 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Nick.

12 MR. MARAVELL: With regard to the

13 last example you gave, the 2005 decision, was

14 USDA directed by that court decision to not

15 have a transition period?

16 MS. CAROE: The - from my

17 understanding the 1st Circuit Court of appeals

18 decision did not allow for that - did not

19 designate an enforcement time frame.

20 MR. MARAVELL: That was not my

21 understanding but I'm not an expert.

22 MS. CAROE: If the program wants
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1 to respond.

2 MR. MARAVELL: I don't know if the

3 program wants to address that. I'm not an

4 expert in that but it was my understanding

5 that there was always the intention on the

6 part of the litigants as well as on the part

7 of USDA to have an orderly transition and -

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: I see Miles

9 reaching for his microphone so let's recognize

10 Miles McEvoy.

11 MR. MCEVOY: I'm not familiar with

12 what happened in 2005 in terms of whether or

13 not the program used regulatory discretion.

14 If it did use regulatory discretion I'm not

15 familiar with the details of that or the court

16 decision to really have anything to add to the

17 conversation at this point. It is a good

18 question, however, of whether or not that

19 could be looked at in regards to this issue as

20 we move forward over the next couple of years.

21 MS. CAROE: If I can just respond

22 to that. My concern is moving quickly and
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1 making the wrong decision instead of moving

2 with caution and making the right decision and

3 allowing for discretion that, you know,

4 obviously is there based on the decision that

5 was made in 2005.

6 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any further

7 questions for Ms. Caroe? Thank you. Titus

8 Roth is up next. Mr. Roth, are you in the

9 room? Okay. Andrew Waterhouse. And Paul

10 Beveridge, you are standing by.

11 MR. WATERHOUSE: Good afternoon.

12 My name is Andrew Waterhouse. I'm a wine

13 chemist and professor and chair of the

14 Department of Viticulture and Enology at UC15 Davis. Our wine program is considered perhaps

16 to be the best in the world. Sulfites are a

17 very simple product made by taking elemental

18 yellow sulfur powder, the same stuff that's

19 sprayed on organic crops, and burning it.

20 This simple process has been used for hundreds

21 or thousands of years and the traditional

22 practice of burning sulfur candles in barrels
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1 continues up to today. It includes the makers

2 of biodynamic wine and even organic wine in

3 many countries outside the U.S. 

4 At UC-Davis, we don't give our

5 students recipes on how to make wine, but we

6 do inform them about the risks of certain

7 practices. Sulfites are used to reduce or

8 eliminate the risk of unwanted yeast and

9 lactic acid bacteria, microbes normally

10 associated with cheese, kimchi, pickle or

11 yogurt fermentations, and the aromas of those

12 foods. Sulfites also reduce problems from

13 oxidation that would make a wine taste like

14 nuts, sherry or cooked vegetables. Today

15 these problems and these defects are never

16 found in commercial wines, but have easily

17 found consumer comments on organic wines that

18 could be linked directly back to the faults I

19 mentioned, including references to other

20 fermented foods in combination with oxidation.

21 Without sulfites, wine is extremely perishable

22 and should be refrigerated for its entire 1-
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1 year life cycle between harvest and then from

2 the winery to consumer. Unfortunately, this

3 is impossible in today's national wine

4 distribution system. So wine made without

5 sulfites, especially the white wines, continue

6 to show very serious flaws. I am convinced

7 that these persistent flaws are the reason the

8 organic wine market is miniscule today and

9 will continue to be so. 

10 On the health front, sulfite

11 labeling has eliminated the public danger of

12 sulfite use, but some wine drinkers still have

13 allergies, allergic reactions and asthmatic

14 reaction to wine. The latest medical research

15 by scientists studying sensitive asthmatic

16 patients is now calling into question whether

17 sulfites are the cause of these reactions.

18 Some exciting new papers have suggested

19 alternative hypotheses, including the presence

20 of wasp or bee venom as published in the New

21 England Journal of Medicine or that wine

22 grapes might have allergenic components
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1 themselves. At this point it's clear that

2 more work is needed to find the actual cause

3 of allergic reactions to wine.

4 In closing I wanted to say that

5 while investigating organic wine I was

6 surprised to see that a number of websites,

7 including the world's largest website,

8 snoop.com, and my local Davis food co-op, a

9 bastion of organic food, are now using the

10 term "organic wine" to classify mostly if not

11 all wines that actually lack USDA organic wine

12 labeling. It seems to me though I'm no expert

13 in market analysis that the market is rapidly

14 abandoning the term as defined by this board,

15 perhaps because it is too restrictive to be

16 useful. Thank you.

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

18 much. Any questions? Thank you. Paul

19 Beveridge. Are you in the room? Okay. Dean

20 Wesen. All right. As Dean is coming up to

21 the podium I'll - on standby is Jenneke

22 Dejong. Go ahead, Mr. Wesen.
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1 MR. WESEN: As you said my name's

2 Dean Wesen. I'm an organic dairy farmer. I

3 live an hour and a half north of here, it's

4 about a half hour from Canada and I came here

5 to talk about free stalls. And as some of you

6 already said that I think it was a big

7 misunderstanding, but I was here to talk about

8 the free stalls and I've been assured that

9 free stalls are allowed in the future. And

10 anyway, what I - since I'm not going to talk

11 about that I would like to talk about the

12 passage of the vitamin and mineral because

13 things get slow in bureaucracies as everyone

14 knows, and if you wait hoping to get it passed

15 and we aren't allowed to sell milk we're not

16 going to be very happy campers. And really

17 that's all I have to say. Is there any

18 questions?

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any questions for

20 Mr. Wesen? 

21 MR. WESEN: Thank you.

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you.
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1 Jenneke Dejong. And Holly Born is standing

2 by.

3 MS. DEJONG: My name is Jenneke

4 Dejong and I want to say first off that I

5 appreciate the work it took to develop all the

6 recommendations and I know you will and

7 already have listened to the public input

8 before making any final votes. My husband Ari

9 and our five children milk organic dairy cows

10 on our farm in Bonanza, Oregon. We became

11 certified in 2004. I just completed a 6-year

12 term on the OMRI board of directors on which

13 I served as board chair for two years. While

14 making the transition to organic farming we

15 took understanding the regulations very

16 seriously. We wanted to really know what we

17 were embarking on before we jumped in.

18 Organic farming is more than just a business

19 venture to us, it is a way of life. 

20 Today I wanted to comment on the

21 animal welfare stocking density

22 recommendation. I believe it is important for
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1 the organic regulations to have some rules in

2 place for the welfare of our livestock. My

3 concern is not around the intent of the

4 document but in some of the particular

5 requirements. In one section of the

6 recommendation the committee suggests that

7 livestock should always be on soil during the

8 grazing season. During the grazing season

9 cattle are let out to open dirt corrals and

10 pastures for grazing. Along with fresh water,

11 cattle do need supplemental feed and

12 additional care and attention. Cattle use

13 places to congregate and clean concrete is

14 much better than wet or dirty ground. Grade

15 A dairy inspectors want to see cattle clean

16 and dry with good conditions for animals.

17 Cows must be milked on smooth and cleanable

18 surfaces. It is easier for cattle to walk or

19 stand on flat concrete than through dirt or

20 mud. 

21 I also was surprised to see the

22 bedded square footage for dairy cattle being
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1 a minimum of 50 square feet of bedded space.

2 Our barn is a free stall barn and earlier

3 today we had some confusion about what a free

4 stall barn was. And I highly recommend that

5 you familiarize yourself with what that is

6 before you vote. Anyway, we have a free stall

7 barn. Cattle need a soft, dry and controlled

8 place to lie down. Cows are cleaner and

9 healthier in smaller controlled areas than in

10 a larger area where they lay in their own

11 manure. Cattle need plenty of room and

12 without good animal husbandry people could not

13 survive in this business. On the other hand,

14 the beds in our free stall barn are 4x8 feet

15 which is 32 square feet and any more room, the

16 cattle can get partly turned around and they

17 can get stuck. 

18 In closing, I would like to say

19 that I strongly agree with the recommendations

20 made by the Food Farmers and Ed Maltbe said

21 that it was 20 pages, but I - they're very

22 good written. Their concerns regarding the
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1 current regulatory processes and regarding the

2 economic impact on organic farmers of any

3 changes in the regulations are valid and real.

4 Without the organic farmer there are no

5 organic products to sell. Thank you very much

6 for your time.

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

8 questions? Holly Born is at the podium and

9 William Frange is standing by. William, are

10 you here? Tony Schilter, are you here?

11 William or Tony, either one of you? Go ahead,

12 Holly.

13 MS. BORN: I'm Holly Born with the

14 Midwest Organic Services Association and today

15 we'd really like to encourage you to

16 incorporate the changes to the proposed animal

17 welfare recommendations that we detailed in

18 our written comments so that a workable

19 recommendation can be produced by the end of

20 this meeting. If some aspects are considered

21 to be too species-specific or subject to

22 debate we'd like to encourage you to address
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1 these aspects in the species-specific guidance

2 documents that are going to be developed this

3 fall and I've actually given you copies of a

4 sheep guidance document which was developed by

5 our director, Bonnie Wideman, as an example of

6 how this might be done. 

7 Our two main areas of concern with

8 this proposed recommendation are outdoor

9 access on soil and stocking rates. We don't

10 think that outdoor access must always provide

11 animals contact with the soil. Ruminants are

12 on pasture during grazing season but in non13 grazing season we see that concrete-based

14 lots, yards and so on are important in

15 preventing erosion and runoff of wastes. We

16 don't think hogs necessarily need to be on

17 soil as long as they have enough material to

18 root in. We do think that poultry should have

19 contact with soil, but that soil shouldn't be

20 expected to grow pasture. We also think that

21 stocking rates for hogs should be increased to

22 be closer to the Canadian requirements.
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1 Stocking rates for sheep and goats should be

2 consistent with the American Sheep Industry

3 recommendations. Stocking rates for laying

4 hens should be increased consistent with the

5 ACA recommendations. 

6 Finally, we think the proposed

7 livestock transport, handling and slaughter

8 recommendation should be withdrawn and

9 revised. In particular, we think that welfare

10 audits of slaughter plants should be covered

11 under existing regulations and not duplicated

12 by certifiers. However, since poultry is not

13 covered under the Humane Slaughter Act we

14 would like to see humane poultry slaughter

15 audit criteria defined for use by certifiers

16 at plants that are not animal welfare

17 certified. Finally, we also don't think that

18 livestock haulers should need to be certified.

19 Any questions?

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

21 questions? All right. Thank you very much.

22 And are you Tony Schilter? Okay. Paul
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1 Staehely, are you in the room? Okay. Please

2 proceed.

3 MR. SCHILTER: My name is Tony

4 Schilter and I want to thank you for taking

5 the time to listen to everybody's comments

6 today. My dairy farm is in Chehalis,

7 Washington, which is about 90 miles south on

8 I-5 from here and we're a family operation

9 with my wife and my son as a full-time

10 partnership milking 250 cows and we have about

11 250 heifers. Beside that we farm about 450

12 acres. We're proud to be organic since 2007.

13 I also sit on the Western Organic Dairy

14 Producers Alliance Board. 

15 And two portions of the animal

16 welfare recommendations concerns me enough to

17 make the drive out here to speak to you in

18 person. During the grazing season we send our

19 cows out, weather permitting, whenever

20 possible. But we also get about 30 inches to

21 35 inches of rainfall a year. That rainfall

22 happens between November and March and
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1 sometimes carries into April, 28 to 29 inches

2 through that period of time and the other five

3 inches continues on for the rest of the

4 remainder of the year. When the ground is

5 saturated in rainwater we send our animals out

6 on our cement exercise run that is available

7 to the animals year-round. It's optional

8 whether they use it or not. But when it's

9 raining, they're locked into that exercise

10 yard. This recommendation says that the cows

11 need to be on soil during the grazing season.

12 It is simply inhuman treatment during these

13 rainy times and I suggest the board evaluate

14 all regulations of the country before making

15 a blanket recommendation. 

16 My other concern is the 50 square

17 feet of bedding space in the barn which you've

18 heard numerous times today where my stalls are

19 32 square feet per cow. The exercise yard

20 gives those cows an additional 83 square feet

21 per cow for plus 100 square feet per animal

22 year-round. And when they're out in the field
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1 they've got numerous amount of square foot.

2 But I don't think it makes sense to have to

3 measure the whole barn and divide it by the

4 number of cows to get the bedding space. I

5 think the words should be changed so that free

6 stalls and the tie stall barns must be one cow

7 per stall. 

8 I'd like to comment too on both

9 the crop and the handling sunset materials.

10 As for the sunsetting of nutrient vitamins and

11 minerals I'd like to see those materials

12 already being used in an organic process to

13 continue to be allowed. I agree that the

14 review of these materials should be done to

15 take them through the proper federal

16 registration process and I also think that

17 these materials should continue to be allowed

18 while the petition process takes place.

19 Taking this fortified products off of the

20 store shelves could affect farmers' livelihood

21 and for one I don't want to see a reduction in

22 my paycheck.
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you, Mr.

2 Schilter. That was your three minutes.

3 MR. SCHILTER: I also want just to

4 put a little comment in is that we believe,

5 we're proud to be organic and happy cows make

6 happy milk, happy milk make happy customers

7 and if we're all organic and the same process

8 we're all going to be happy.

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you.

10 MR. SCHILTER: Anybody's got any

11 questions I will answer them.

12 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any questions?

13 Thank you very much. Paul Staehely and Jason

14 Woosen standing by.

15 MR. STAEHELY: Hello. My name is

16 Paul Staehely. I have been farming

17 organically in Oregon City, Oregon since 2002.

18 I'm also a member of WODPA. I thank you for

19 allowing me to speak today.

20 There are several areas - or

21 several sections throughout our animal welfare

22 document that need clarification, specifically
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1 stocking density and the access to outdoor

2 requirements. Some of our outdoor access is

3 cement and some of it is soil. For example,

4 in our holding pen it is cement. In reading

5 the recommendations it sounds like all outdoor

6 access needs to be soil. We get approximately

7 three feet of rain in the wintertime, making

8 outdoor areas extremely muddy. Sending cows

9 out on the mud is dangerous to both the cows

10 and people, not to mention my milk inspector

11 wouldn't be happy to see the cows out in the

12 mud and it's not a very easy cleanable

13 surface. As for stocking density, inside the

14 barn we have free stalls with 32 square feet

15 per animal. To get 50 square feet per cow I

16 would have to take out every other stall. The

17 cows would have so much space they would be

18 standing sideways in stalls, causing yet

19 another cleanliness and safety issue. I think

20 the comfort of the animals and cleanliness of

21 the space is more important than having

22 exactly 50 square feet per animal. I strongly
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1 suggest the board reconsider the wording of

2 this chart to reflect this and maybe

3 acknowledge free stall barns that have beds

4 for all cows but the beds aren't 50 square

5 feet.

6 As for crop materials, I would

7 like to see the continued listing of chlorine,

8 alcohol and pheromones. And on a final note,

9 I would like to see fortified foods continue

10 to be allowed in organic products, providing

11 those nutrients go through the Federal

12 Register process just like everything else on

13 the national list. To keep business flowing

14 smoothly and to allow organic farmers to keep

15 selling their milk please do pull fortified

16 foods from the - fortified foods on the

17 marketplace. Give companies time to petition

18 and go through the proper process because

19 taking products away doesn't just hurt big

20 business, it hurts me and my farm too. Any

21 questions?

22 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any questions for
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1 Mr. Staehely? Thank you. Next up is Emanuel

2 De Merez and Jackie Bowen is standing by.

3 MR. DE MEREZ: Dear members of the

4 board, ladies and gentlemen, my name is

5 Emanuel De Merez and I'm speaking on behalf of

6 SQM which is the producer of natural Chilean

7 nitrate. As you all know, natural Chilean

8 nitrate has been a topic for discussion for

9 many years, but always reason and common

10 sense, contrary to what happened in other

11 regions in the world, referring to for example

12 Europe, have inspired the board, leading to

13 the current regulation. And I believe that is

14 a good regulation. It meets both farmer

15 requirements, allowing them to produce locally

16 even in adverse conditions and at the same

17 time fully respecting the organic philosophy.

18 Don't forget that natural Chilean nitrate has

19 been around for over a hundred years in times

20 when everything was still organic. And

21 nowadays it's mainly a byproduct of iodine

22 production and also in itself it has a
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1 significant rations of iodine. 

2 We agree with the committee that

3 trade equivalency should not be a valid

4 criterion to evaluate an input. A product

5 should be evaluated on its merits, not on

6 political considerations or international

7 trade arguments. As in the end is it not at

8 the heart of organic farming to produce

9 locally? We have posted an extensive reply to

10 the recommendations so there is no time to go

11 in details now. But I would like to point out

12 that we did not really find new arguments in

13 there.

14 One concern that was raised is

15 that farmers may become dependent on natural

16 Chilean nitrate. Now, we don't agree with

17 this because at the end the product is self18 regulating. First of all, there is a current

19 regulation which has the annotation of a

20 maximum 20 percent use for the crops'

21 requirements so farmers cannot fully rely on

22 it. And secondly, talking to farmers and I
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1 think it was said earlier also at the end of

2 the day it's not the cheap product per unit of

3 n. So farmers will not use it unless they

4 really need it and it's critical to the

5 viability. Also, we don't see any good

6 alternatives to give a complimentary spike of

7 available nitrogen when it's really needed.

8 A lot of products have been tried, but again,

9 talking to farmers none of them perform really

10 well and all of them need nitrogen conversion

11 in the soil, so.

12 Finally, we want to clarify that

13 the product is not limited to the western U.S.

14 Just to share the sales figures, we sell in 29

15 different states. We also collected over 300

16 farmers' testimonials in 40 states talking in

17 favor of the product. And finally, we also

18 did a petition and over 540 farmers in 21

19 states signed that petition to support the

20 product and to support the status quo. So I

21 would like to urge the Crops Committee and the

22 board not to ignore the position of its most
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1 important stakeholders and to vote in favor of

2 the status quo. Thank you. Any questions?

3 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Barry.

4 MR. FLAMM: One clarification. On

5 the sales that you show on the map

6 distribution.

7 MR. DE MEREZ: Yes.

8 MR. FLAMM: Is that to organic use

9 or total use?

10 MR. DE MEREZ: This product is

11 only sold for organic use, so yes, it's

12 organic use.

13 MR. FLAMM: It's just organic use?

14 MR. DE MEREZ: Yes. Natural

15 Chilean nitrate is not used in conventional

16 agriculture because, again, cost-wise compared

17 to the alternatives, urea ammonium nitrate,

18 it's not as efficient.

19 MR. FLAMM: Okay, thank you.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Steve.

21 MR. DEMURI: Similar question on

22 the petition. Were those organic growers or
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1 conventional and organic or?

2 MR. DE MEREZ: Those were organic

3 growers. That was a specific requirement for

4 them to sign. 

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any more questions

6 for Mr. De Merez? I see Lisa Ahramjian

7 flagging me here.

8 MS. AHRAMJIAN: There were several

9 people that we skipped over because they

10 weren't in the room at their scheduled time.

11 If anyone else still wants to give a public

12 comment today please come see me as soon as

13 possible.

14 CHAIR MIEDEMA: I'll also say if

15 anyone was giving their comment early Thursday

16 morning and prefers to sleep a couple extra

17 minutes and go ahead with their comment this

18 afternoon we would entertain that. So also

19 see Lisa. Lisa, do we have anyone standing by

20 after Jackie Bowen? Okay. Jackie, come on

21 up.

22 MS. BOWEN: Thank you. My name is
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1 Jaclyn Bowen. I'm the general manager of

2 Quality Assurance International. We're a USDA

3 certifier. Today my comments are going to be

4 limited to the animal welfare recommendations.

5 A colleague of mine, Alexis Randolph, will

6 actually be speaking to QAI's other public

7 comments later on Thursday. Also, as a member

8 of the Accredited Certifiers Association many

9 of QAI's comments regarding the animal welfare

10 recommendations are also reflected within

11 those documents already submitted by the ACA.

12 Due to the number of areas in

13 which revisions are being suggested by the ACA

14 and other organizations, QAI requests that the

15 committee reissue a recommendation on animal

16 welfare that incorporates all sections of the

17 existing regulation as you intend to maintain

18 them. One of the most helpful documents

19 issued by the NOP regarding the access-to20 pasture rule changes was the side-by-side

21 comparison document. Due to the complexity of

22 the animal welfare - of animal welfare being
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1 added to an already new pasture rule, QAI

2 would appreciate the committee creating a

3 similar document that includes the current

4 regulation, including the pasture rule,

5 recommended animal welfare recommendations as

6 currently written, and then the final

7 recommendation the NOP intends to put forward

8 for rulemaking after review of all the

9 comments received to date. Thank you.

10 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

11 much. Any questions? Joe Dickson.

12 MR. DICKSON: Just, I don't know

13 that I completely understand your request so

14 I just want to ask you to clarify. You're

15 asking the Livestock Committee to put out a

16 comparison of the existing regulation compared

17 to our recommendation as made over the past

18 few sort of iterations?

19 MS. BOWEN: Correct, just so

20 there's a comparison of past versus potential.

21 It just helps with comparing what is actually

22 changing just with all the changes that are
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1 going - with the new pasture rule as well as

2 with the pending animal welfare

3 recommendations.

4 MR. DICKSON: Thank you.

5 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Any more

6 questions? Thank you. 

7 MS. BOWEN: Thank you.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Next up, Bob

9 Anderson.

10 MR. ANDERSON: Thank you. It's a

11 pleasure to be here. I know many of you, I

12 know many people in the room. I'm a longtime

13 organic guy. I've sat in the chair and been

14 in your chairs here at National Organic

15 Standards Board in the early days and I want

16 to recognize that you guys have an awesome

17 responsibility here. And so as you look at

18 things and in the grand philosophy of who we

19 are and what we do and the impact that we have

20 on consumer expectations but also on the

21 realities of life on the ground that you weigh

22 them very, very carefully. 
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1 And I want to say that I think

2 sunset was probably a bad term. I wish we had

3 said we're going to have a sunshine rule that

4 meant we'd shine a bright light on everything

5 every five years and say is it good, is it

6 not, is there an alternative, has it been

7 developed, is there a wholly natural

8 substitute or whatever those terms are. But

9 let's look at it in a broad and open way and

10 say is it important and does it allow us to

11 continue to convert and eliminate - convert

12 land to organic agriculture and eliminate and

13 minimize pesticides around the world. It's a

14 very big and important responsibility. 

15 I have no dog in the hunt here, so

16 I'm here - I'm talking from an international

17 trade perspective. I'm a senior trade policy

18 advisor now to the Organic Trade Association,

19 the Foreign Agriculture Service and I work

20 closely with Miles. Actually, the last time

21 I was at the NOSB meeting Miles and I and

22 Margaret made the presentations on aquatic
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1 species. So it's been awhile, but it's good

2 to be back. From an international perspective

3 what the decisions that get made here impact

4 not only domestic trade but international

5 trade and it's a significant part of our

6 contribution these days. It's about 8 percent

7 of all of the organic trade. And there are

8 two things that have come up. One is that

9 lignin sulfonate as a flotation agent. Lignin

10 sulfonate is a binder and fertilizer, we've

11 already - that's sort of decided. But as a

12 flotation agent it's only used in pears.

13 We've had OMRI research this, we've worked

14 with the Northwest Horticulture Society, our

15 council and with other producers. I would ask

16 you to consider adding the annotation for

17 pears, as a flotation agent for pears. That

18 would allow everyone who is - right now we're

19 certifying all the way back to the land for

20 carrots and other things that it's not used

21 on. And pears don't float and they're very

22 fragile. That's why it's important.
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1 Second, that - and second that

2 sodium silicate was - as I read the - or

3 interpreted the recommendation was that it

4 should go off because it is an alternative.

5 There are other alternative flotation agents.

6 Well, lignin sulfonate doesn't work with

7 chlorines. So it's important to understand

8 that all things - one flotation agent doesn't

9 work for all products and that I would urge

10 you to leave on the sodium silicate as a

11 flotation agent, but also as a bleach, as a

12 holder of oxygen.

13 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you. Any

14 questions for Bob Anderson? Thank you.

15 MR. ANDERSON: Three minutes goes

16 so fast, doesn't it?

17 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you very

18 much. All right. Last call for anyone who

19 was signed up today and who was passed over.

20 Oh, it looks like we have another name here.

21 Katherine Withey.

22 MS. WITHEY: Hi. My name is
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1 Katherine Withey and I'm here to represent the

2 Washington State Department of Agriculture

3 Organic Food Program. So I originally was

4 scheduled for Thursday morning and I thought

5 I had two days to get this down to under three

6 minutes but my grandfather was a livestock

7 auctioneer so hopefully I can get this taken

8 care of. So forgive me if I just read these.

9 In 2010 WSDA certified 719

10 producers. Of these producers, 361 were

11 certified for apples and/or pears, and of

12 these 361 producers 136 used tetracycline and

13 34 have used streptomycin. As you listen and

14 read comments pertaining to the use of

15 antibiotics in tree fruit production I wanted

16 to provide you with these numbers so that you

17 can get a context for understanding the impact

18 that your decision will have. This is a very

19 important decision for our state organic

20 industry and we encourage the NOSB to be both

21 thoughtful and deliberate as well as informed

22 when making it. 
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1 For the evaluation of the material

2 review organizations WSDA has provided written

3 comments to the NOSB in regards to the CACC

4 recommendation pertaining to material review

5 organizations. We'd like to stress one item

6 in our comments. Prior to implementing a plan

7 for oversight, please conduct a thorough

8 survey of all certifiers as it relates to

9 materials review. A thorough survey of

10 material review procedures, decisions and

11 tracking will act to identify what certifiers

12 do well and what we do not do well, and it

13 will assist the NOSB and the NOP in making

14 informed data-driven decisions as you move

15 forward with this ambitious goal.

16 Okay, corn steep liquor. Yes.

17 WSDA is not going to weigh in on whether corn

18 steep liquor is synthetic or non-synthetic

19 because we don't - it's not just about corn20 steep liquor. It's also about the 0.2 percent

21 remaining growth media in microbial products

22 and it's also about ion exchange resins. It's
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1 about so much more than corn steep liquor.

2 What we need is for the NOSB to wrap up the

3 multiple-year conversations around materials

4 classifications and provide certifiers with a

5 clear decision, comprehensive guidance and

6 training on implementation. The corn steep

7 liquor recommendation equates to the

8 implementation of the draft guidance document

9 for classification of materials prior to its

10 finalization and implementation. The process

11 is backwards. We ask first that the NOSB

12 finalizes the proposed guidance and the NOP

13 implements it, and then the CSL decision can

14 fall under those new guidance. We request

15 adherence to a consistent and transparent

16 process, and it's essential that the NOP be

17 proactive on this issue and not continue to be

18 reactive because corn steep liquor is just a

19 symptom of a bigger problem. 

20 And finally, sodium silicate and

21 magnesium sulfate. WSDA finds the removal of

22 sodium silicate and magnesium sulfate in the
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1 absence of requested technical information to

2 be a flawed process. Oh, sodium silicate can

3 be used by organic growers during the dump

4 process for delicate tree fruit and we

5 encourage the NOSB to make informed decisions

6 based on data when making determinations about

7 the allowance of materials.

8 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Thank you.

9 Colehour.

10 MR. BONDERA: Thank you,

11 Katherine, for your quick speech there. But

12 I want to go back to the beginning, the first

13 topic that you raised, because I liked how you

14 threw out some numbers really fast but they

15 raised for me some yellow flags really quickly

16 because I heard, and I may have misinterpreted

17 it because you were speaking quite quickly I

18 admit, that honestly it seemed like quite a

19 large percentage - and I didn't calculate

20 percentages - of the certified organic pear

21 and apple producers are not using the

22 antibiotics. Based on the numbers you
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1 presented and you know, I again, ask you to

2 comment on that please.

3 MS. WITHEY: Sure. And I have to

4 say that our - the way that we gather that

5 data may be somewhat of a flawed process

6 because of the way that we input materials

7 into our database in our systems. So when we

8 search, we search something like Mycoshield,

9 or we'll search a generic of tetracycline and

10 we don't capture typos or spelling errors or

11 the ways that people may have written Myco

12 space shield. So what that was was a

13 preliminary baseline number in 2010 that

14 doesn't account for spelling errors that I

15 think we can all agree farmers can be

16 sometimes famous for. So it is a baseline

17 number and I would say that if we were to

18 delve into each file we would probably come up

19 with higher numbers but what it means is that

20 one-third of our apple and pear growers are

21 using tetracycline and less - to a lesser

22 degree streptomycin. 
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1 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Colehour and then

2 Jay.

3 MR. BONDERA: I guess I'm - I

4 don't want to apologize, but just to follow up

5 then. I'm still hearing, and it's just

6 intriguing to me to contemplate this subject,

7 that the result of what you're saying, even

8 like you said the numbers aren't exactly

9 accurate, is that it becomes pretty clear to

10 me pretty quickly that every single organic

11 pear and apple producer is not using these

12 antibiotics. I would say that you're not even

13 suggesting that the number is down to zero

14 because of these errors, but instead that it's

15 common but it's not what everybody's doing.

16 And I haven't heard that many comments from

17 people today on that detail and I think that

18 intrigues my brain at least.

19 MS. WITHEY: Correct. Because we

20 certify a wide variety of agricultural

21 systems. So we certify large tree growers and

22 I heard, you know, we've heard comments from
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1 before, but we also certify people who have

2 apples that may only have three trees. So

3 they may not be using antibiotics. So I think

4 that that diversity would probably speak to

5 the fact why 100 percent of our growers are

6 not using antibiotics. Yes.

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Jay Feldman.

8 MR. FELDMAN: Just to follow up on

9 Colehour's question. Is there other data in

10 that database that might be helpful to this

11 board such as varieties, age of the orchard,

12 other practices that you might collect data on

13 that might be able to tell us why we're seeing

14 some significant percentage not using or not

15 dependent on these antibiotics?

16 CHAIR MIEDEMA: We're right at

17 about the 5-minute mark and it's a little bit

18 off topic so can you please be brief?

19 MS. WITHEY: Sure. No. I mean,

20 we don't collect the age of orchards in our

21 database. We do collect varieties and we

22 could get you the varieties of those farms, or
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1 the varieties that are - where antibiotics are

2 being used, but we don't have a way to say the

3 antibiotics are being used on their, you know,

4 not on their Granny's or their Red Delicious

5 but on their Pink Lady's. So we can't really

6 break it out that finely. I wish we could,

7 but yes. When I say "database" I'm using it

8 very loosely.

9 CHAIR MIEDEMA: All right. Thank

10 you very much.

11 MS. WITHEY: Yes, thank you.

12 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay. Lisa

13 Ahramjian.

14 MS. AHRAMJIAN: So there's at

15 least one person who gave me handouts today

16 who did not give their presentation. Is

17 Edward Gildea in the room? Okay. Or anyone

18 else who wants to give public comment today?

19 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay. We have 30

20 minutes left in the time that we published in

21 the Federal Register and there's a couple of

22 things we can do here. The first thing I
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1 wanted to announce is that tomorrow is

2 completely devoted to committee deliberations.

3 And we don't have the luxury of the same

4 protocols, but I do want to remind board

5 members of Robert's Rules for committee

6 deliberations. I think in past meetings we

7 might have strayed from that a bit which is

8 each committee member is supposed to ask no

9 more than two questions during the

10 deliberations and the second question is

11 really supposed to come after the first

12 question has been asked. So I was pointed

13 that out by our parliamentarian this morning

14 and make sure everyone is sort of ready for

15 that tomorrow.

16 And then the other thing I wanted

17 to announce was that - Lisa, it looks like you

18 have a follow-up to maybe clarify something I

19 just said.

20 MS. BRINES: I just saw some

21 inquiry, or some looks that I just wanted to

22 clarify. So yes, according to the rules of
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1 debate every board member would have the

2 opportunity to provide comment or debate on

3 any motion. In general, a person can speak

4 twice on a motion but not until everyone else

5 has had the opportunity to comment on that

6 motion. Hopefully that helps.

7 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Okay, thank you.

8 Steve.

9 MR. DEMURI: Just a clarification

10 question. We're not really making any motions

11 tomorrow, it's just kind of a presentation

12 day. Do the same rules apply?

13 MS. BRINES: Normally under

14 Robert's Rules you would make the motion first

15 and then it would be subject to debate.

16 That's not traditionally how the board has

17 operated, but normally you don't debate

18 something that's not presented in the form of

19 a motion.

20 CHAIR MIEDEMA: Where I was going

21 with this is if our committee deliberations

22 tomorrow run long we may have the opportunity
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1 to push some of those deliberations into

2 Thursday. We'll have to check and find out

3 whether that's proper for our agenda, but I

4 just wanted to make a last call for public

5 comments before we recess for the day. Okay.

6 So I'm going to ask NOSB members as a courtesy

7 to please stick around for 15 minutes or so

8 and be available to visit informally with

9 members of the public. Thanks everyone, and

10 we will reconvene at 8:00 a.m. tomorrow.

11 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter

12 went off the record at 4:59 p.m.)

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

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wheels 264:20

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113 3:12

118 3:13

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120 236:20

122 3:13

126 3:14

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165 3:19

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176 3:20

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192 3:23

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1993 142:9

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2

2 91:9 183:12

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2005 225:14 349:13

350:13 351:12

352:5
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2006 75:6 91:7,12

188:8

2007 39:22 175:15

257:15 258:5

266:6 346:18

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2008 75:17 181:17

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225:17 232:15

253:13 269:7

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13:4 31:20 32:6

40:7 50:18 59:1

61:12 64:16 93:6

96:14 148:9

175:15 233:9

380:9 384:13

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18:21 20:3,17

21:17 50:20,22

59:5 60:13 81:18

2012 9:21 12:9,11

12:15,16,22 14:12

14:15,20 18:22

35:13 43:12 51:7

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114:9 148:18

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116:11

2014 283:20

2017 95:8

202 4:2

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205.201(a)(3)

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205.206 284:8

205.239 219:21

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253:16

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3

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360 4:21

361 380:10,12

362 114:1

363 4:21

366 4:22

369 4:22

373 4:23

376 4:23

379 4:24

38 69:4

39,000 102:21

4

4 90:18 91:9,21

95:10 98:11

104:15 173:18

202:21 232:19

238:11 254:15

4x8 238:10 359:14

4's 92:6,9

4(a) 95:18 99:1

195:20 196:4

4(a)'s 98:16 99:2

4(b) 95:18 195:20

196:4

4(b)'s 98:16 99:1

4:59 390:12

40 135:18 202:10

245:20 254:10

371:16

40,000 103:9

400 69:3 300:16

43 69:22

430 346:16

44 69:19

45 166:21 298:16

303:11

450 363:11

47,000 151:15

48 275:7,9

49 3:5 276:18

5

5 3:1 142:1 299:21

300:6 329:21

332:3

5-minute 386:17

5-unit 214:2

5-year 339:12,13

5:05 256:15

50 115:1 127:13

179:12 245:20

303:7,12 334:6

342:21 359:1

364:16 367:15,22

368:4

50s 340:14

50,000 178:9

500 68:12 212:22

500,000 331:5

540 371:18

57 193:10

6

6 24:3

6,500 276:18

6-year 357:11

60 41:17 143:3

195:14

60-day 78:9

601 33:8

602 33:13

603 33:9

604 33:13

605 33:17

605(b) 207:15

606 34:5,11 37:16

37:17 70:14

610 59:10

65 166:21 296:5

650 141:19

7

7 74:18 75:12

238:11 254:15

71 63:17

719 380:9

72 294:7

76 294:8

77 175:16

78 141:18

8

8 9:4 202:22 238:5

238:5 274:8,12

378:6

8:00 1:10 5:2

390:10

80 168:6 221:16

225:2

83 364:20

85,000 331:5

879 95:19 98:15

88 68:13

89 3:7

9

9 54:11 167:13

245:2
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 451

9:56 108:13

90 167:2 271:20

343:9 363:7

93 135:19

94 135:20

95 77:3,21

95,000 186:1

98 149:16
NEAL R. GROSS

COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 

1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. 

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 

C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript 

In the matter of: 

Before: 

Date: 

Place: 

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under 

my direction; further, that said transcript is a 

true and accurate record of the proceedings. 

 

 ----------------------- Court Reporter 

452

National Organic Standards Board

US Department of Agriculture

04-26-11

Seattle, Washington