202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 1

 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

 AGRICULTURAL MARKETING SERVICE (AMS)

 NATIONAL ORGANIC PROGRAM (NOP)

 + + + + +

 MEETING OF THE NATIONAL ORGANIC 

 STANDARDS BOARD (NOSB)

 + + + + +

 THURSDAY,

 APRIL 29, 2010

 + + + + +

 The National Organic Standards Board

convened at 8:00 a.m. in the Heidrick Ag

History Center located at 1962 Hays Lane,

Woodland, California, Daniel G. Giacomini,

Chairperson, presiding.

MEMBERS PRESENT:

 DANIEL G. GIACOMINI, Chairperson

 TRACY MIEDEMA, Vice-Chairperson

 TINA ELLOR, Secretary

 STEVE DeMURI

 JOE DICKSON 

 JAY FELDMAN 

 BARRY FLAMM 

 JOHN FOSTER 

 WENDY FULRIDER 

 JENNIFER M. HALL 

 KATRINA F. HEINZE 

 JEFFREY W. MOYER 

 ANNETTE RIHERD

 JOE SMILLIE
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 2

STAFF PRESENT:

 MILES McEVOY

 JUDY RAGONESI

 VALERIE FRANCES

 ARTHUR NEAL

 MARK BRADLEY

 LARS CRAIL

 SHANNON NALLY

 DR. KERRY SMITH

 DR. LISA BRINES
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 3

 C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S

Recommendations of Corps Committee

2011 Sunset Recommendation for Ferric

Phosphate . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .9

 Vote: 0 no, 14 yes, 1 absent . . . . . 13

2012 Sunset recommendation for 205-601. . . . 14

 Vote: 0 no, 14 yes . . . . . . . . . . 20

2012 Sunset Recommendations for 205.601: 

Non-synthetic Substances Prohibited for Use in

Organic Corp Production . . . . . . . . . . . 21

 Vote: 0 no, 14 yes, 1 absent . . . . . 23

List 3 and List 4 in Inerts . . . . . . . . . 24

 Vote: 1 no 13 yes, 1 absent. . . . . . 64

Production Standards for Terrestrial Plants

and Containers and Enclosures . . . . . . . . 65

 Vote: 1 no, 12 yes, 2 absent . . . . . 73

Presentation of Plaques for New Members . . . 75

Recommendations of Livestock Committee

Petition from the Methionine Task Force . . . 79

 Vote: 12 no, 2 yes, 1 absent . . . . . 90

Recommendation from Committee on Methionine . 92

 Vote: To table until after lunch

 5 no, 9 yes. . . . . . . . . . .118

 Vote: 10 no, 4 yes, 1 absent . . . . .259

 Vote: 4 no, 10 yes, 1 absent . . . . .283

 Vote: 4 no, 10 yes, 1 absent . . . . .293

Sunset substances on 205.603. . . . . . . . .118

 Vote: 0 no, 14 yes, 1 absent . . . . .120

205-604 materials, strychnine . . . . . . . .123

 Vote: 0 no, 14 yes, 1 absent. . . . . .124

Animal health care products definition. . . .126

 Withdrawn from voting docket
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 4

 C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S

Animal Health Care Products 205.238(c)(1) . .127

 Vote: 1 no, 13 yes, 1 absent . . . . .149

Recommendations of Handling Committee

Sunset recommendation 205.605(a). . . . . . .153

 Vote: 0 no, 14 yes, 1 absent . . . . .157

Sunset recommendation 205.605(b). . . . . . .159

 Vote: 0 no, 14 yes, 1 absent . . . . .164

Sunset recommendation 205.606 . . . . . . . .166

 Vote: 0 no, 13 yes, 1 absent, 1

 recusal . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .177

Wendy Fulwider recusal on vote on 205.606 . .178

Joint Materials & Handling Committees

Addendum to November 6, 2009 Recommendation on

Classification of Materials . . . . . . . . .189

 Vote: 2 no, 12 yes, 1 absent . . . . .215

Compliance, Accreditation, and Certification

Committee

Guidelines for the Use of Inert Atmospheric

Gases with Products Labeled and Sold As 100%

Organic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .218

 Vote: 1 no, 13 yes, 1 absent. . . . . .243

Policy Development Committee

Materials Petitioned for Addition to the

National List Two Tiered Voting . . . . . . .295

 Vote: 0 no, 14 yes, 1 absent . . . . .299

Committee Workplans . . . . . . . . . . . . .302

Other Business. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .321

Adjourn . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .332
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 5

1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S

2 8:07 a.m.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Final

4 session of this National Organic Standard

5 Board Meeting is now back in session. Board

6 members are seated and we have the high five

7 from Valerie and the sound man, so we're all

8 ready to go.

9 Today's the final day for final

10 discussion and voting on the Board

11 recommendations brought forth at this meeting

12 by the various committees. The committees

13 have worked for months on these

14 recommendations and now after respectfully

15 weighing the public comments submitted both

16 online and then in person at this meeting, we

17 are ready for final consideration and vote.

18 It is always impressive to me at

19 the responsiveness of the Committee to public

20 comment. We work very hard, and sometimes

21 very late in the evening, to make any 

22 modifications and changes that we can to make
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 6

1 corrections and make the document more

2 responsive to the industry.

3 And again, we thank the public for

4 their input.

5 So we ask the audience as we

6 proceed through this process to please

7 refrain. While we don't have email this time,

8 but in this modern age we do have cell phone

9 text and different things. Please refrain

10 from contacting members of the Board during

11 this process. And we thank you all for

12 consideration and fairness to all parties

13 involved.

14 We would like to make a special

15 request and remind the Board members Vice

16 Chairman of the committees working on the

17 recommendations as we take votes, please Vice

18 Chairman, make special attention to any

19 changes, any modifications, anything that is

20 altered in your documents before final vote so

21 that we make sure we're all on the same page

22 when it comes to posting the final documents. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 7

1 So, Vice Chairs, please have your pencils

2 ready.

3 Regarding today's vote, the

4 substance of votes as required by OFPA require

5 a two-thirds vote of this Board. Abstentions

6 are handled as no votes, essentially. They

7 are counted towards the quorum, but are not

8 counted as part of the vote. They're

9 considered the essential of absent, but they

10 are counted towards the quorum.

11 Fourteen active votes. Members

12 voting requires a ten vote to pass. Thirteen

13 votes requires nine votes to pass. Twelve

14 members voting requires eight votes to pass. 

15 Eleven voting requires eight. And ten votes

16 require seven. I ran that list in

17 consideration of any recusals, abstentions or

18 other reasons that someone may not be voting.

19 All the Board should have the

20 voting documents. I will be starting on the

21 side with Barry and working this way through

22 the members. If you'd please enter your
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 8

1 initials of everyone at the top of that page.

2 Still have a pair of reading

3 glasses here if anyone can't see their

4 documents.

5 And we have blank voting sheets

6 for anyone who may need them.

7 Any other housecleaning before we

8 start? Joe?

9 MR. SMILLIE: I'd just like to

10 thank the volunteers who had the coffee

11 available and the people at the Heidrick

12 Center for helping us get through these

13 meetings. I think that was really a wonderful

14 thing. I think it was Kim Dietz, Kelly Shea,

15 Gwen whoever you were thank you very much. It

16 really made it much hospitable for everybody

17 to have coffee and drinks. And the Heidrick 

18 Center people went out of their way to

19 accommodate us. So I'd just like to thank all

20 of you for that wonderful, gracious gesture.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you,

22 Joe. And that is just centrally extended from
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 9

1 all of us. And all of you have helped make

2 this meeting a wonderful experience with the

3 consideration of things we'd have to deal

4 with. And we apologize for any inconvenience

5 with the wi-fi. And we hope that won't happen

6 again.

7 Okay. Anything else before we get

8 started? All right.

9 The first one up is the Crops

10 Committee and Chairperson Tina Ellor.

11 SECRETARY ELLOR: Thank you, Dan.

12 The first item we have up this

13 morning for a vote, and you know it's been six

14 months so I might be a little vague about the

15 process, I am aging, is the 2011 Sunset

16 Recommendation for ferric phosphate. And as

17 we discussed yesterday, we do have a petition

18 in front of the Board to remove. We had only

19 favorable public comments to keep this on. 

20 And if we don't act on it, it will go off.

21 So do I make a motion or --

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes, you
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 10

1 make a motion to accept the recommendation.

2 SECRETARY ELLOR: Okay. I'll make

3 a motion that we accept the recommendation to

4 keep ferric phosphate on List 205.601.

5 MR. MOYER: I'll second that

6 motion.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Motion has

8 been made by Tina Ellor, seconded by Jeff

9 Moyer to accept the recommendation from the

10 Crops Committee regarding the relisting of

11 ferric phosphate on 601.

12 Madam Maker of the motion, do you

13 have any further debate?

14 SECRETARY ELLOR: I do not.

15 Oh, Jeff.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

17 MR. MOYER: Dan, just a point of

18 clarification. The petition was to remove.

19 SECRETARY ELLOR: Right.

20 MR. MOYER: So we have to be

21 careful how we vote. Because if we vote yes,

22 it will be removed.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 11

1 SECRETARY ELLOR: No, no. We're

2 not voting on the petition.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No, that's

4 not correct.

5 SECRETARY ELLOR: We're voting on

6 the Sunset.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: This is

8 Sunset. The affirmative vote is for

9 relisting.

10 MR. MOYER: So we're not voting on

11 the petition?

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No.

13 SECRETARY ELLOR: We're not voting

14 on the petition to remove. We are voting on

15 relisting.

16 Sorry. Thank you, Jeff.

17 MR. MOYER: Yes, I just want to

18 clarify it.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: This is a

20 Sunset vote to relist. An affirmative vote

21 asserts and relists this substance on the

22 National List.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 12

1 MR. MOYER: Thank you for that

2 clarification.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

4 Any further debate? Seeing none.

5 Barry?

6 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

8 MS. RIHERD: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

10 MR. HALL: Yes.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

12 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

14 MR. MOYER: Yes.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

16 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

18 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe?

22 MR. SMILLIE: Joe.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 13

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

2 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

4 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

6 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe?

8 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe votes

10 yes. 

11 One absent.

12 Votes are zero no, 14 yes, no

13 abstention. One absent. Motion passes.

14 I'm sorry. We missed an important

15 step of asking for conflicts and recusals. 

16 Would anyone on that vote consider that they

17 have any potential conflict? 

18 Please, even if I happen to miss

19 that point, the point of a vote, please if

20 anyone has those issues to state, please bring

21 them to our attention.

22 Madam Chairman.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 14

1 SECRETARY ELLOR: The next item on

2 the agenda is our low hanging fruit, 2012

3 Sunset recommendation for 205.601 and -- no,

4 we're going to do that separation. Okay.

5 205.601 since synthetic substances

6 allowed for use in organic crop production,

7 and I'm going to go quickly through the

8 category use and the material. And all votes

9 from the Crops Committee were unanimous to

10 keep these on the List. So a yes vote would

11 be to relist all of the following:

12 Category use as algicides

13 disinfectives and sanitizers including

14 irrigation system cleaning systems: Hydrogen

15 peroxide, soap-based algicide de-mossers.

16 Category use as herbicides, weed

17 barriers as applicable. Herbicide soap-based

18 for use in farms as maintenance.

19 Category use as animal repellents: 

20 Soaps, ammonia soaps.

21 Category use as insecticides: 

22 Ammonium carbonate, boric acid, elemental
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 15

1 sulfur, lime sulfur including calcium

2 polysulfide, oils, horticultural oils - narrow

3 range oils as dormant, suffocating and summer

4 oils, insecticidal soils, sticky traps and

5 barriers, sucrose octanoate esters, 

6 Category use as plant disease

7 control: Hydrated lime, hydrogen peroxide,

8 lime sulfur, horticultural oils - narrow range

9 oils as dormant, suffocating and summer oils,

10 potassium bicarbonate and elemental sulfur.

11 Category use as plant or soil

12 amendments: Aquatic plant extracts, elemental

13 sulfur, humic acids, micronutrients, soluble

14 boron products, sulfates, carbonates, oxides

15 or silicates of zinc, copper, iron, manganese,

16 molybdenum, selenium and cobalt, liquid fish

17 products, vitamin B1, C and E.

18 And I believe I captured that list

19 accurately.

20 And I would encourage you to read

21 the recommendation because we did have some

22 concerns with some of these, and we did send
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 16

1 an awful lot of materials back for technical

2 review, which we certainly hope to get back by

3 the fall. But these are the ones we

4 considered.

5 Yes, Valerie? 

6 MS. FRANCES: You forgot mulches. 

7 You didn't mention that. Just for the record.

8 SECRETARY ELLOR: Oh, I'm sorry.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes, for

10 the record --

11 SECRETARY ELLOR: Oh, okay. All

12 right. Very important.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: -- please

14 refer to the actual document.

15 SECRETARY ELLOR: Okay. Yes, I

16 did. I just can't read, Dan. Okay.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: That's why

18 I asked them to please refer to the document.

19 SECRETARY ELLOR: Okay.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: For all of

21 our humanity involved.

22 SECRETARY ELLOR: Mulches: 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 17

1 Newspaper, other recycled paper or plastic

2 mulching covers. Although, no. Actually, no. 

3 We sent those back for TR because of new

4 advances in inks and coatings and because of

5 the nanotechnology. So, no, I should not have

6 read those. Those should not be on our list. 

7 Yes.

8 And the plastic mulching covers we

9 sent back to look at alternatives. That's not

10 on our voting docket for this morning.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you. 

12 As we said, please refer to the document.

13 SECRETARY ELLOR: Okay. 

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Was our

15 motion there or do you still need make a

16 motion?

17 SECRETARY ELLOR: So, I would like

18 to make a motion that we -- oh no. Not yet. 

19 Yes. I would like to make a motion

20 that we accept for relisting those materials

21 that I just listed for 205.601 that they are

22 accepted as allowed for use in organic crop
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 18

1 production.

2 So I made the motion.

3 MR. MOYER: I'll second that

4 motion.

5 SECRETARY ELLOR: Is there any--

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The motion

7 has been made and seconded to accept the list

8 of substances for relisting on Section 601.

9 Madam Maker of the motion, do you

10 have any further comments?

11 SECRETARY ELLOR: I do not.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

13 further debate? Steve?

14 MR. DeMURI: Just a question of

15 clarification. The votes that I see up there

16 on the board apply to all those items? It was

17 unanimous, basically, for everything?

18 SECRETARY ELLOR: It was

19 unanimous, yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

21 debate? Seeing none, proceed to vote.

22 For the new members, the process
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 19

1 that we proceed through is we start at one end

2 of the table for the first vote and we go

3 around the table, we proceed in that same

4 fashion moving one person each vote for the

5 starting person. So, the first vote is now

6 Annette.

7 MS. RIHERD: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

9 MR. HALL: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

11 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

13 MR. MOYER: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

15 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

17 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe?

21 MR. SMILLIE: Joe.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 20

1 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

3 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

5 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

7 Dickson?

8 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

10 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

11 Joe votes yes.

12 Motion passes, 14 zero.

13 Any conflict of interest? I will

14 get this by the last one. Any conflicts on

15 that that we would need to reconsider this

16 vote? Okay.

17 Motion passes.

18 SECRETARY ELLOR: The next one on

19 our agenda are the 2012 Sunset Recommendations

20 for 205.601: Non-synthetic Substances

21 Prohibited for Use in Organic Corp Production.

22 And the Committee voted again
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 21

1 unanimously on this particular category to

2 relist as prohibited for use in organic

3 agriculture: Ash for manure burning, arsenic,

4 lead salts, potassium chloride, sodium

5 fluoaluminate, strychnine and tobacco dust.

6 So I would like to make a motion

7 that we maintain those prohibitions on the

8 list.

9 Did I say that correctly.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The way

11 you said it.

12 SECRETARY ELLOR: Okay. 

13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Second.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Motion has

15 been made and seconded to relist the items in

16 the recommendation to maintain those

17 prohibitions on the list for 601.

18 Maker of the motion, do you have

19 any further comment?

20 SECRETARY ELLOR: No, I do not.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

22 further debate? Seeing none, we'll proceed to
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 22

1 vote.

2 Conflicts? I wrote it down right

3 there. Thank you. Conflicts?

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

5 MR. HALL: Yes.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

7 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

9 MR. MOYER: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

11 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

13 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

17 Smillie?

18 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

20 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

22 MR. DeMURI: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 23

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

2 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

4 Dickson?

5 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

7 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

9 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The Chair

11 votes yes.

12 One absent, zero no's, 14 yes. 

13 Motion passes.

14 SECRETARY ELLOR: The next item on

15 our agenda are the List 4 inerts in

16 pesticides, that document, and I'm going to

17 turn this over to Jeff.

18 MR. MOYER: Sorry. I was looking

19 on livestock.

20 Okay. Do you have the document

21 up? Thank you.

22 Okay. A document that we had a
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 24

1 lot of discussion on yesterday, the mechanism

2 to handle the Sunset of List 4 and List 3

3 inerts as they appear in our standard.

4 While Valerie brings that up, we

5 did have the opportunity to meet briefly with

6 the program last evening. And taking into

7 consideration the discussion we had yesterday,

8 we did make some changes to the list for

9 inerts document which we think are quite

10 substantive, but still heading in the same

11 direction we were heading yesterday. So we

12 haven't changed our overall goals and

13 objectives.

14 You'll see there that we added to

15 the sentence about creating a memorandum of

16 understanding with the EPA. We added another

17 sentence to the end of that that says "This

18 MOU should serve as a platform for an

19 implementation strategy that may include an

20 official task force or some other structure to

21 achieve the following objectives."

22 So the idea would be that there
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 25

1 would still be the creation of a memorandum of

2 understanding between the Program EPA and this

3 Board, so all three of us would work together

4 in a triumvirate fashion bring industry into

5 the process as needed to make sure that we get

6 everything right as we go through this

7 process.

8 We have not changed the overall

9 strategy or the objectives for that task

10 force, or whatever structure the Program deems

11 would be most beneficial to the process. So

12 we included that sentence in there.

13 Moving down -- question?

14 MR. SMILLIE: Yes. This may be a

15 minor point, but the official task force, I

16 just want to probe into that. We've done this

17 in the past and there's been a differentiation

18 between task force and working group.

19 MR. MOYER: That's right.

20 MR. SMILLIE: Working group is

21 formally assembled and certain people are

22 invited. It's not necessarily inclusive of
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 26

1 everyone.

2 I just want to make sure that when

3 we structure this task force that it is open

4 to all sectors to be involved.

5 MR. MOYER: Yes. My understanding

6 in the discussion with the Program, and if

7 Arthur wants to comment here or jump in that's

8 fine. We were leaving the actual title of

9 that working group/task force a little bit

10 open. We used the word "task force" since it

11 came from the program yesterday in this

12 discussion, but it's really a working group,

13 task force, whatever you want to call it,

14 that's officially organized under this

15 memorandum of understanding with these

16 targeted objectives. And at that point we're

17 assuming in the MOU there will be a timeline

18 and the time frame for which this to operate.

19 We have seen working groups go on

20 for seven years; that's not the time frame

21 we're hoping this takes. But that'll all be

22 worked out in the Memorandum of Understanding,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 27

1 which is really the platform that encompasses

2 this process.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: It does

4 say official task force or other structure.

5 MR. MOYER: Right. Or other

6 structure.

7 MR. SMILLIE: Right. I'm not

8 arguing with the wording. I want

9 clarification on it.

10 So the MOU is the trigger to

11 create the official working group?

12 MR. MOYER: That's correct.

13 MR. SMILLIE: So the MOU is

14 established first --

15 MR. MOYER: That's correct.

16 MR. SMILLIE: -- between the three

17 parties?

18 MR. MOYER: That's correct.

19 MR. SMILLIE: Okay.

20 MR. MOYER: Thank you, Joe, for

21 the opportunity to clarify that.

22 Moving down in the document,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 28

1 paragraph 1 or objective 1 we did not change. 

2 That was the objective that working with the

3 EPA to split the list into the naturals or the

4 non-synthetics and the synthetics.

5 Moving into objective 2, paragraph

6 2 there. We did at the recommendation of this

7 Board remove or suggesting that we remove

8 what's highlighted in yellow there; at least

9 yellow on my computer. Green on the wall.

10 We took out any reference to

11 specific days for implementation. So we were

12 suggesting we take out the 180 days of posting

13 and replace it with a phrase that says "An

14 established time frame" giving the task force

15 for other structure under that MOU the

16 opportunity to create that established time

17 frame. We're not doing it with this document.

18 A little hard to see up there. On

19 my computer, unfortunately or fortunately for

20 me, it shows up in red. 

21 But the words right before "180

22 days of posting," it says "an established time
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 29

1 frame." That piece is new. That's the

2 replacement and we're suggesting we strike the

3 "180 days of posting." Again, based on

4 comments that we got from this Board yesterday

5 in our discussion.

6 Moving down to paragraph 3,

7 objective 3 there. We did the same thing with

8 this paragraph. Again, at the end where it

9 says " 1 year," we replaced that with the word

10 "designated." So "there will be designed

11 grace period" but we are not determining that

12 with this document. It could be one year, it

13 could 18 months; I don't know what it'll be. 

14 Again, the task force operating under that MOU

15 will determine that.

16 Objective 4, again removing any

17 reference to time period, we're suggesting we

18 remove both references to the 6 month time

19 period, one for reformulation and one a grace

20 period and replace those with the same

21 verbiage that we used in the previous

22 paragraphs. The one saying "an established
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 30

1 time period" in 2.

2 I don't know if you can capture

3 that, Valerie. Yes, perfect.

4 The gray area would be the

5 replacement language, the green would be

6 stricken from the document.

7 And then at the end there

8 "designed" again would replace the text that

9 says "6 months."

10 Paragraph and objective 5. This

11 one we did not change the language, but what

12 our intention to do with this paragraph is

13 basically we cannot delete "EPA List 4 and EPA

14 List 3" as they're shown in the standard or it

15 would Sunset and we would lose all these

16 materials. So we didn't formulate the

17 language there and we're hoping we can do that

18 in a brief discussion here to make sure that

19 those materials do not come off the list

20 while this process takes place. Otherwise,

21 they would Sunset. 

22 So whether we vote to relist
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 31

1 these, I guess that would be the official

2 terminology, we have to utilize vote to

3 relist. So a vote for this document would be

4 to basically to relist those two categories in

5 the rule so that we don't lose them in the

6 interim where the original language there says

7 to "delete them." So we got to change that

8 language. Just so you know what you're voting

9 for.

10 Objective 6. And this one, again,

11 was totally rewritten based on the -- so if

12 you can highlight all of number --

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: That

14 should be a six, not a five.

15 MR. MOYER: That should be a six,

16 yes.

17 We're replacing six -- five with

18 language to relist. Okay. Okay.

19 And I'm going to read all of six

20 because we changed it completely from

21 yesterday.

22 As you recall, yesterday the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 32

1 language said to list each item individually

2 in the rule and to put them under Sunset.

3 Here what we're doing is we're

4 giving ourselves some options. One of the

5 options is to list them as individual items,

6 but I'll just read it as its stated here. And

7 this was late at night, like 11:00 at night. 

8 So if I get things wrong, I'm sure you'll

9 correct me.

10 "Based on the results of the MOU

11 established task force, the National Organics

12 Standards Board will either list the specific

13 inert ingredient components recommended for

14 inclusion on 205.601 and by the NOSB subject

15 to the current Sunset process, or post the

16 list as a single material listing as a subset

17 list managed by the EPA under" -- and the

18 title that we talked about was List of Inerts

19 Suitable for Organic Production. No matter

20 how we list it in our rule, this document is

21 suggesting that whichever listing format we

22 utilize, the materials will be subject to the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 33

1 Sunset process already established under

2 National Organic Standards Board policy

3 manual. 

4 So each of these materials would

5 still fall under the Sunset process, no matter

6 how we list them.

7 We could choose, or the task force

8 recommend that we list them as a subset of 40

9 CFR 180, which the EPA would us manage under

10 the title "List of Inerts Suitable for Organic

11 Production," which is a totally separate list

12 from what they manage today. And, again, that

13 was based on the discussion we had yesterday.

14 Madam Chairman, back to you.

15 SECRETARY ELLOR: I do have one

16 little bit of confusion. On item 5 we're

17 going to delete item 5 completely? Yes,

18 that's what I'm curious about. 

19 And a vote for this would leave it

20 open for us to relist on the November meeting. 

21 Because that item we decided to defer until

22 the November meeting. So I think essentially
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 34

1 that's what we would be doing.

2 MR. MOYER: That's fine. I'm

3 comfortable with that. I just highlighted the

4 whole box and didn't relight it because I

5 wasn't sure how you wanted to handle that or

6 how the Committee wanted to handle that, or

7 the Board.

8 SECRETARY ELLOR: Right.

9 MR. MOYER: But I did want to

10 highlight it to make sure that we don't lose

11 it.

12 I'm open to suggestions from

13 anybody.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Arthur?

15 MR. NEAL: Good morning.

16 This is my perspective of the

17 recommendation.

18 To me the most critical part of

19 the recommendation would be the establishment

20 of the MOU and the potential task force. The

21 remaining pieces or items that are listed to

22 me kind of express the Board's desire.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 35

1 MR. MOYER: Correct.

2 MR. NEAL: Because our discussion

3 and dialogue, that whole thing could change. 

4 So I really wouldn't spend a lot of time

5 debating those things. It just may be the

6 Board, you know has a desire to see these

7 types of things happen. Because I guarantee

8 you it's going to change through the dialogue

9 and discussion with one another, and with the

10 industry and with the EPA. 

11 MR. MOYER: Yes.

12 MR. NEAL: Because we don't really

13 know what's the best way to list these inerts

14 right now. So to prescribe, you know, the EPA

15 inerts, I mean the Listing in 205.601 may not

16 be the best to handle them or not. I think

17 that all of this will get flushed out if you

18 dialogue more about how to handle this issue. 

19 That's just my perspective on it.

20 MR. MOYER: Yes. I think based on

21 our discussions, that's correct. However, we

22 the Committee still thinks it's important that
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 36

1 we post these objectives because it's our

2 perspective and point of view on how we -- we

3 felt it was important for us to give guidance

4 to the Program and the EPA on what we want

5 them to work on and accomplish. So these are

6 our Committee's objectives.

7 MR. NEAL: Right. And I don't

8 disagree. And as I said earlier, I think it's

9 the Board's desire to see something like this

10 happen. And what I want to make sure that

11 everybody understands, too, that it's a guide

12 for us but it may not look anything like that

13 after we all dialogue.

14 MR. MOYER: Yes. Sure. I

15 understand that.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We just

17 need a quick decision within the Committee of

18 what they want to do with that paragraph.

19 MR. MOYER: That's correct.

20 Madam Chairperson, Committee

21 Chair?

22 SECRETARY ELLOR: Well, what I'm
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 37

1 not clear about, or to seems to me what are

2 the consequences if we leave it exactly as it

3 is? Because it's going to go through the

4 major objective first, which is the task

5 force. So for me it's a matter of timing. 

6 Eventually these will come off the list.

7 MR. MOYER: Correct.

8 SECRETARY ELLOR: But, you know --

9 right?

10 MR. MOYER: Okay. I think what I

11 hear you saying, Tina, is that we could leave

12 it the way it is because that's one of our

13 objectives, but the reality is we're deferring

14 the inerts --

15 SECRETARY ELLOR: Right.

16 MR. MOYER: -- until November

17 where we will vote to relist them?

18 SECRETARY ELLOR: Right. So until

19 these processes --

20 MR. MOYER: Take place.

21 SECRETARY ELLOR: -- grind through

22 the process, we are going to continue. And
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 38

1 five years from now if this thing isn't

2 complete, you know then the Board will have

3 decide again whether to relist as it is. But

4 I think that there won't be terrible

5 consequences if we leave that just the way it

6 is. And Arthur's --

7 MR. NEAL: No. Right now we kind

8 of, we frozen what we had before time with the

9 former EPA List 4 and List 3 designations that

10 were approved by the Boar for use in organic

11 agriculture.

12 MR. MOYER: Correct.

13 MR. NEAL: So right now we're

14 okay. We're going to be working on this and

15 dialoguing about it, though, to find out how

16 we tackle the issue in the future.

17 MR. FELDMAN: Just a point of

18 information.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

20 MR. FELDMAN: You raised the issue

21 of frozen in time. We're frozen as the 2004

22 List but there have been additional inerts
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 39

1 approved since that time. So when we talk

2 about "frozen about time," we have to

3 reference what's happened since 2004.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: That's the

5 question that I asked yesterday. Point 2 says

6 "currently."

7 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Not the

9 2004 List.

10 MR. MOYER: No. It says the ones

11 that are currently allowed. It doesn't say

12 the current List. So it's the ones that are

13 frozen in time.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: They're

15 product ingredients currently listed.

16 MR. MOYER: Currently. Item

17 number 2 it says "currently allowed." So it's

18 not the current List.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay.

20 MR. MOYER: It's the one that are

21 currently allowed under our List --

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 40

1 MR. MOYER: -- which is frozen in

2 time.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

4 Okay. 

5 If there's no debate on the

6 language, Arthur or --

7 MR. NEAL: Well, one point of

8 clarification on the things that have been

9 reclassified. Those inerts that have been

10 reclassified, just like prior to EPA's

11 reclassification, you know those inerts that

12 wanted to be included on the National List

13 that there were not an EPA List for, they had

14 to be petitioned.

15 MR. MOYER: That's correct.

16 MR. NEAL: And that process is

17 still the same. It hasn't changed. Yes,

18 they've been reclassified, but at the same

19 time EPA's definitions have not remained the

20 same regarding inerts. So what we've done is

21 that we've said that if anybody wants to have

22 a reclassified material add on a National
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 41

1 List, they would petition to have those

2 included until we work out this new process in

3 terms of accessing what the Program is now

4 going to allow based on the reclassification

5 of EPA inert ingredients.

6 MR. MOYER: That's the way I view

7 this, Arthur. And what we're suggesting in

8 these objectives is that moving forward, this

9 Board sees all the materials that gets added

10 to that list, whether the EPA manages it or,

11 whatever the Task Force decides; we still

12 review those materials because that's our

13 obligation as Jay read yesterday in OFPA. And

14 they would fall then under our Sunset process

15 as individual items, not as the List in whole.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Miles?

17 MR. McEVOY: That's what the

18 current policy says.

19 MR. MOYER: Yes.

20 MR. McEVOY: Any additional

21 materials have to be gone through the petition

22 process, you would have full review of those
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 42

1 in deciding in whether to add them to the

2 List.

3 MR. MOYER: Correct.

4 MR. McEVOY: And this is pretty

5 clear on the website under policy 5008. So I

6 think we're pretty solid on this one.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Valerie?

8 MS. FRANCES: I just want a

9 clarification. Did I hear a subtext kind of

10 going on in the conversation regarding the

11 List of materials that have not made it on the

12 2004 EPA List of Materials formally but were

13 allowed for use? I don't know if that's clear

14 from this discussions, but I sort of hear

15 that.

16 MR. MOYER: Your question, I

17 think, is less clear to me than my answer

18 might be. So I'm not sure what you're looking

19 for.

20 MS. FRANCES: There is the List

21 for Materials --

22 MR. MOYER: Right.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 43

1 MS. FRANCES: -- that the EPA had

2 allowed for use that were not in that sort of

3 link on that we have in the Appendix --

4 MR. MOYER: Correct.

5 MS. FRANCES: -- in the document

6 that we then excluded by way of policy.

7 MR. MOYER: Correct.

8 MS. FRANCES: So I'm making sure

9 what are you doing with that list?

10 MR. MOYER: Nothing. It stands as

11 is; it's frozen in time. Any new materials

12 have to be petitioned.

13 MS. FRANCES: Okay. 

14 MR. MOYER: And that's what our

15 language here says as well, moving forward any

16 new materials have to be petitioned.

17 MR. NEAL: And, just those

18 reclassified substances or as we dialogue

19 about them through the task force processing,

20 that may be some of the things that we talk

21 about.

22 MR. MOYER: Sure.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 44

1 Katrina's been waiting.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

3 Jennifer?

4 MR. HALL: Okay.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

6 Jay?

7 MR. FELDMAN: Yes. I just want to

8 make sure that we capture that list you're

9 referencing, Valerie, that conforms to the

10 criteria of the previous list for, the frozen

11 static list in time. And that the NOP is

12 aware of what those ingredients are and that

13 we don't inadvertently disallow those if they

14 are in conformance with the previous list for

15 while we're going through this task force

16 process.

17 And the other issue is as things

18 come up, prior to full disclosure and, you

19 know dispensing with the CBI issues around

20 inerts, once we have this policy in place how

21 will we as a Board evaluate those ingredients,

22 the inerts, outside the context of their use
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 45

1 patterns and the products they're in? How

2 will we as a Board be able to do that?

3 MR. NEAL: I guess the question is

4 why would you want to evaluate them outside

5 their use pattern?

6 MR. FELDMAN: We wouldn't, but

7 they're CBI currently. You made the comment

8 that they would come before the Board through

9 the approval process and be petitioned. But

10 if they're not attached to a specific product,

11 how would we as a Board know what we are

12 approving?

13 MR. NEAL: Well, this is my take.

14 MR. FELDMAN: Okay.

15 MR. NEAL: If someone is

16 petitioning a substance, an inert substance,

17 and they want it to be used in organic

18 agriculture production and the Board can't

19 make a determination on its use because you

20 don't have enough information, how can you

21 then make a clear determination as to whether

22 or not it could be allowed? So it comes to a
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 46

1 point of, you know if the petitioner wants

2 their substance allowed, they're going to have

3 to provide enough information that the Board

4 can make an intelligible decision that proves

5 the applicable criteria.

6 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. 

7 MR. NEAL: That's my take on it. 

8 And we have to be reasonable with respect to

9 the sharing of the information.

10 MR. MOYER: Katrina's been --

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina.

12 MR. MOYER: Thank you.

13 MS. HEINZE: I have a procedural

14 question. Are we in Committee discussion or

15 Board discussion?

16 MR. MOYER: We're in Board

17 discussion.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Committee

19 discussion.

20 MR. MOYER: No.

21 MS. HEINZE: Committee discussion?

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Motion has
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 47

1 not been made presenting to this to the Board. 

2 This is --

3 MS. HEINZE: So the rest of us are

4 just hanging?

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: You can

6 participate, but this is officially Committee

7 discussion.

8 MS. HEINZE: Okay. Can I ask a

9 question then?

10 MR. MOYER: Committee invites you

11 to participate.

12 MS. HEINZE: Thank you. Okay. So

13 here's my understanding of the list for EPA's

14 List for Inerts. That after 2004 they stopped

15 maintaining the list, is that correct?

16 MR. MOYER: Correct. That is

17 correct.

18 MS. HEINZE: Okay. Since then -

19 MR. MOYER: Clarification. They

20 changed their designation and they still

21 manage the list. This list is in their hands

22 but frozen in time.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 48

1 MS. HEINZE: Gotcha. So this List

2 for Inerts as it exists and as we use it is

3 frozen as of 2004?

4 MR. MOYER: Yes.

5 MS. HEINZE: Okay. Since then

6 there are materials that are on that list --

7 MR. MOYER: Yes.

8 MS. HEINZE: -- that EPA has

9 reviewed and taken off the list?

10 MR. MOYER: That's correct. Eight

11 of them.

12 MS. HEINZE: And there are

13 materials that weren't on the list --

14 MR. MOYER: That is correct.

15 MS. HEINZE: -- that they have

16 reviewed and approved through their process?

17 MR. MOYER: That is correct.

18 MS. HEINZE: Okay. So it seems

19 that your recommendation can ignore the ones

20 they've allowed because they're not on the

21 list?

22 MR. MOYER: That is correct.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 49

1 MS. HEINZE: So then, therefore,

2 they're not allowed in organic?

3 MR. MOYER: That is correct.

4 MS. HEINZE: Okay. 

5 MR. MOYER: Unless they petition

6 them as individuals materials.

7 MS. HEINZE: Right. But for the

8 purposes of this, we can ignore them unless

9 the petitioner petitions and they get listed

10 separately?

11 MR. MOYER: That is correct.

12 MS. HEINZE: Therefore, it seems

13 like somewhere in your recommendation --

14 MR. MOYER: Yes.

15 MS. HEINZE: -- but I'll have a

16 question after this, you need to do something

17 with the ones that have been prohibited,

18 otherwise they're still allowed with the

19 listing?

20 MR. MOYER: No. My understanding

21 is because of the way our rule is written,

22 those eight were removed from the static list.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 50

1 MS. HEINZE: Gotcha.

2 MR. MOYER: So we can remove, but

3 we cannot add.

4 MS. HEINZE: Okay. 

5 MR. MOYER: Removing is easy. We

6 don't have to review the removal. But we

7 would have to review --

8 MS. HEINZE: An addition?

9 MR. MOYER: Through a petition

10 process, yes.

11 MS. HEINZE: Okay. 

12 MR. MOYER: Yes.

13 MS. HEINZE: So then I have one

14 final question. It seems that this

15 recommendation is focused on how do we want to

16 manage inerts going forward.

17 MR. MOYER: Yes.

18 MS. HEINZE: And it's perhaps

19 separate from what to do with the Sunset in

20 the interim?

21 MR. MOYER: That is correct. And

22 that was the point of discussion on item 5. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 51

1 I want to make sure we handled that in the

2 most proper manner. But since this is a

3 document that's going to go into the hands of

4 the task force, we can leave it as is because

5 our goal is to do this. We're going to have

6 to do it anyway.

7 MS. HEINZE: Okay. 

8 MR. MOYER: But as Tina mentioned,

9 we are deferring the vote today on EPA List 

10 3--

11 MS. HEINZE: On Sunset.

12 MR. MOYER: -- or on Sunset until

13 the November meeting in which place -- unless

14 this all gets done between now and then, we

15 will vote to relist.

16 MS. HEINZE: I understand.

17 Then a final question. We didn't

18 spend that much time at the language right at

19 the time where it talks about MOU.

20 MR. MOYER: Yes.

21 MS. HEINZE: If as a Committee you

22 could look at that again and just make sure
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 52

1 that it's clear that 1 through 5 or 6 are

2 goals but not requirements.

3 MR. MOYER: I don't think we

4 stated in that MOU specifically that either

5 one of those was the case.

6 MS. HEINZE: I just didn't have a

7 chance to see how that might be --

8 MR. MOYER: We're just saying

9 that, if you look at the next down, we're

10 calling this a recommendation. So these six

11 items are our Committee's recommendation to

12 the MOU established group.

13 MS. HEINZE: I guess the question

14 is would the NOP see those as requirements --

15 MR. MOYER: No.

16 MS. HEINZE: -- or desires?

17 MR. MOYER: My understanding from

18 our conversations yesterday is that these are

19 our originally Committee and as soon as we

20 vote on these, the Board recommendation to

21 them and to this MOU created group, committee,

22 task force.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 53

1 MS. HEINZE: I'm just keeping some

2 of our discussion on classification. You

3 know, and the recommendation can have a lot of

4 different meanings.

5 MR. MOYER: Yes.

6 MS. HEINZE: So if the

7 recommendation is thou shalt versus we would

8 like you to consider, I don't know if we need

9 to use different words or not.

10 MR. MOYER: I don't think we have

11 to. I mean, our discussion again and what

12 Arthur was saying is this is to give direction

13 to the MOU and to the Program.

14 Arthur?

15 MR. NEAL: Yes. Oh, go ahead,

16 Miles.

17 MR. McEVOY: Yes. This, you are

18 making a recommendation to the Program and the

19 Program will take a look at it and respond

20 back.

21 MR. MOYER: Yes.

22 MR. McEVOY: So you have specific
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 54

1 objectives that you're outlining here that

2 you'd like to see in the agreement in our work

3 with EPA, and we'll take a look at that and

4 we'll get back to you.

5 So I think it's clear that this is

6 a recommendation of your intent. And I think

7 it'll work.

8 MR. MOYER: And we got word from

9 the Program yesterday that they would expedite

10 this in a timely fashion, as Arthur said that

11 the MOU should not take long to write and get

12 this. Now how long it takes the task force to

13 work, or whatever you call it, we don't know.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. I

15 think we've moved from the discussion of the

16 things you would like to change in the

17 Committee structure into Board discussion.

18 I'd like to entertain the motion

19 so that if there's any further debate, it

20 really is Board debate if you're done making

21 all your little amendment changes.

22 MR. MOYER: I am, Mr. Secretary,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 55

1 thank you. The little changes were made.

2 And I make a motion that we accept

3 this document as written.

4 MR. FELDMAN: I second.

5 MR. MOYER: And now it's yours,

6 Mr. Chairman.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

8 Motion has been made, properly made by Jeff. 

9 Seconded by Jay to accept this document.

10 You have first discussion, maker

11 of the motion. Did you have any further

12 debate?

13 MR. MOYER: I do not.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

15 Joe?

16 MR. MOYER: Prepared to answer

17 questions.

18 MR. SMILLIE: Yes. But we're

19 voting on this package.

20 MR. MOYER: That's correct.

21 MR. SMILLIE: What is being

22 deferred until the November meeting?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 56

1 MR. MOYER: Okay. Good question,

2 Joe. Just to clarify that, what's being

3 deferred you'll see when we get to our

4 materials vote, we are deferring the Sunset

5 item of EPA List 4 Inerts of Minimal Concern,

6 EPA List 3 Inerts of Unknown Toxicity Allowed

7 until the fall meeting. So the vote on that

8 as a Sunset item is being deferred. What

9 we're voting on here and the reason for this

10 to be included is, as one of the objectives

11 we're going to have to strike this eventually

12 from our document because they no longer

13 exist. So one of the processes that will be

14 what happens.

15 MR. SMILLIE: I got it.

16 MR. MOYER: Thank you for that

17 opportunity.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

19 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes, and just to

20 make that clear. In Committee we had already

21 decided not to act on the inerts Sunset at

22 this meeting. We decided as a Committee in
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 57

1 our Committee deliberations to act on that,

2 along with a lot of others, at the fall

3 meeting so that we could have this discussion

4 before we decided on what to do with that

5 particular Sunset.

6 So we've already been through all

7 the material votes, and that was not part of

8 our Sunset vote for this meeting. But you'll

9 see it --

10 MR. MOYER: You'll see that if you

11 look at your other documents and you go

12 further along, you'll see that List 3 Inerts

13 was deferred. The only way that that will

14 change in fall is if the Program gets the MOU,

15 EPA they work out all the details with the

16 task force before November and we know what's

17 going to happen, so you know the chances of

18 that.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Well, we

20 could also extend into spring.

21 MR. MOYER: You could.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I don't
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 58

1 know the exact date on this, but most of these

2 could allow us -- we generally allow three

3 meetings to try and accomplish all of our

4 Sunsets.

5 So, Steve?

6 MR. DeMURI: So has the Committee

7 voted on the reworked recommendation?

8 MR. MOYER: Yes. The Committee

9 voted this morning on this recommendation and

10 anonymously approved it.

11 MR. SMILLIE: Okay. Good. It's not

12 listed on the bottom of the recommendation.

13 MR. MOYER: No, we didn't change

14 that. That was the original Committee vote. 

15 But we did vote on it this morning and it was

16 unanimous. We had one absent.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

18 MR. HALL: Jeff, would you be kind

19 enough to restate the motion?

20 MR. MOYER: Sure. The motion is

21 to accept the document on the changes on the

22 status of List 4 and List 3 Inerts as posted.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 59

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

2 debate of questions?

3 I would just like to add that as

4 we've added the initiation of this group, task

5 force, whatever, I just want to make sure we

6 have it in the record that that group needs to

7 be as inclusive as possible. It needs to

8 include the crop side, it needed to include

9 the farmer. This will also have implication

10 on livestock. And from what I understand on

11 the processing side in handling, when they're

12 dealing with their pest issues they generally

13 look to 601, if that's correct. So everybody

14 needs to be involved and we want to ask that

15 we make sure that we are extremely inclusive

16 in that endeavor.

17 Further debate? Katrina?

18 MS. HEINZE: I'm still confused. 

19 Are we having Board debate or Committee

20 debate?

21 MR. MOYER: Board.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Board.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 60

1 MS. HEINZE: Okay. Could we scroll

2 through the document one more time?

3 MR. MOYER: Is there a place you

4 want to stop?

5 MS. HEINZE: Yes. The MOU part. 

6 Okay. 

7 Valerie, can you go back to that

8 MOU part? And you scroll faster than I can

9 read. Okay. You can scroll. Thank you. Can

10 you scroll? Okay. Thank you.

11 MR. MOYER: Except for the time

12 designation changes, you have the document on

13 your desk pretty much intact, except for that

14 language with the MOU. And we did change 6

15 dramatically.

16 MS. HEINZE: And then is 5 in or

17 out?

18 MR. MOYER: Five is staying in.

19 MS. HEINZE: Okay. 

20 MR. MOYER: As part of this

21 document, yes.

22 MS. HEINZE: Thank you.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 61

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

2 SECRETARY ELLOR: At the risk of

3 bloviating here, I have to say, to have to put

4 on public record that the work that Jeff and

5 Jay, and the EPA in the Program and the

6 consideration put into this document has been

7 extraordinary. And I think that this is not

8 just a, whatever, better getting in the way of

9 best or whatever. This is a great document. 

10 And I just wanted to say thank you.

11 MR. MOYER: We learned a lot,

12 right Jay?

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

14 Also finally before we move to vote, I just

15 want to say that in response to some of the

16 way the discussion was being -- some of the

17 words used yesterday in talking about whether

18 things would be added to the list, what we're

19 all considering here is taking a single line

20 existing in the list and expanding it to all

21 the things that are included. Nothing would

22 be added to the list. If anything, even if we
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 62

1 added -- even if we included all the items

2 that we want, it would be a reduction in the

3 number of allowed substances currently

4 allowed.

5 So, this is going to end up being

6 a reduction in the number of substances

7 allowed in organic production and processing. 

8 And it is not adding anything to the list. 

9 There may be -- if there's 800 on this list,

10 there could be 1600 items listed in the list,

11 it is not adding a single item. So I just

12 want to be very clear on that.

13 MR. MOYER: Thank you, Dan, for

14 that clarification. I can't tell you how

15 important it is for the folks in the audience

16 to carry that message back to the world that

17 we are working diligently to reduce the number

18 of materials that are allowed in organic

19 production, and this goes a long way to doing

20 that. Thank you.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. Are

22 we ready for the question?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 63

1 Okay. For the vote for accepting

2 the recommendation document from the Crops

3 Committee regarding List 4 and List 3 Inerts

4 beginning with Wendy? 

5 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

7 MR. MOYER: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

9 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

11 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: No.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

15 Smillie?

16 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John

18 Foster?

19 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

21 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 64

1 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

3 Dickson?

4 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

6 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

8 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

10 MR. HALL: Yes.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The Chair

12 votes yes. 

13 And was there any conflict of

14 interest? Seeing none, we will keep the

15 count.

16 One no, one absent, 13 yes.

17 Could you track these with us?

18 No conflict of interest.

19 Motion passes.

20 One more for Crops.

21 SECRETARY ELLOR: Thank you, Mr.

22 Chairman.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 65

1 The last we have on our workplan

2 for Crops is the Production Standards for

3 Terrestrial Plants and Containers and

4 Enclosures.

5 And I would like to make a motion

6 that we accept this document as up on the

7 board with the changes that we made. We

8 haven't made any changes since discussion

9 yesterday. So it's the --

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: What

11 presented yesterday?

12 SECRETARY ELLOR: It was what was

13 presented yesterday. So I would like to make

14 that motion.

15 MR. MOYER: I'll second that

16 motion.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: It's been

18 moved and seconded to accept the document on

19 the Production Standards for Terrestrial

20 Plants and Containers and Enclosures presented

21 by the Crops Committee, and properly seconded.

22 Madam maker of the motion, do you
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 66

1 have any further debate?

2 SECRETARY ELLOR: I do not.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

4 further debate on this matter? Seeing none,

5 we'll proceed to vote.

6 Is there any conflict of interest? 

7 Any conflict of interest? Any further debate? 

8 I'll do it one more time.

9 Joe?

10 MR. SMILLIE: Once again, one of

11 the criticisms of the document is not the

12 intent of the document, or even some of the

13 substance. But it's like the multiple points

14 that the document is trying to make. I'd just

15 like to ask you to just go through because

16 it's kind of scattered. So could you, Tina,

17 just summarize the document as the points of

18 principle of your intent? If you know what I

19 mean.

20 SECRETARY ELLOR: I do.

21 MR. SMILLIE: Okay. 

22 SECRETARY ELLOR: And I think that
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 67

1 John expressed some of these concerns in

2 Committee. 

3 And essentially it came about, I

4 think, as Jerry explained yesterday because of

5 the Equivalency Agreement with Canada was part

6 of it, and the very strong public sentiment

7 that hydroponics and aeroponics should not be

8 allowed in organics. So we're covering that

9 issue in this document.

10 And we were asked by the Program

11 to set forth some standards for container

12 grown greenhouse, you know, enclosure. 

13 And this document has been through

14 now at least three groups of public opinion

15 and we responded to every bunch of public. 

16 But I know that I sat in meetings in 2000

17 where this was in discussion. So essentially,

18 you know through all the public comment and

19 all the mutations of the Committees, which of

20 course and have a great deal changeover, this

21 is the document that we came up with. 

22 And I know that there is some
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 68

1 concern about that it being overly

2 prescriptive. And we had comments on both

3 sides of that. That, you know, people wanted

4 to really tighten it down even more. And then

5 we had pretty clear comments it was over

6 prescriptive.

7 We kind of figured that would

8 shake out in rulemaking and that there's

9 further opportunity for work, you know, within

10 the community on this document. So this is

11 sort of, you know, our best effort after all

12 of that input and time.

13 MR. SMILLIE: So it clarifies our

14 stand on aeroponics or hydroponics, number

15 one?

16 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

17 MR. SMILLIE: It creates a format

18 that will be a longer discussion, really, in

19 rulemaking on what constitutes container

20 growing? I hesitate to call it pot growing,

21 so we'll call it container. Couldn't resist

22 it.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 69

1 And number --

2 MR. MOYER: You didn't hesitate

3 too long, Joe.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We'd have

5 to transfer the document to the Joint

6 Committee in order to do that.

7 MR. SMILLIE: I knew you were

8 going to do it. I thought I'd get it before

9 you, but you beat me to it. It's definitely a

10 Joint Committee discussion.

11 But no, seriously. So the second

12 objective is there and it does correct the

13 allowance for sprouts? So these are the three

14 take homes I have when I vote yes on this

15 document?

16 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

17 MR. SMILLIE: Okay. 

18 SECRETARY ELLOR: Thank you for

19 that clarification.

20 MR. SMILLIE: Thank you.

21 MR. MOYER: That's correct. But it

22 further outlines some of the objectives within
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 70

1 those three --

2 MR. SMILLIE: Right.

3 MR. MOYER: Like split operations

4 and all those things --

5 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

6 MR. MOYER: -- that will need to

7 be flushed out.

8 MR. SMILLIE: Right. Okay. 

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

10 debate? John?

11 MR. FOSTER: Just very briefly. 

12 If the intent was to address hydroponics in

13 Canadian, then that's what it should be about,

14 right. I think this is reaching much farther

15 than that in a way that can be improved with

16 further discussion.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

18 Further debate? Katrina?

19 MS. HEINZE: Hey, John, could you

20 elaborate on what you just said? I'm not sure

21 what that means; what you're thinking.

22 MR. FOSTER: That if the main
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 71

1 intent was to address Canadian implementation

2 and its aversion to hydroponics, then calling

3 this Production Standards for Terrestrial

4 Plants in Containers and Enclosures I think

5 was drifting farther than it needed to. If it

6 wanted to be a prohibition of hydroponics,

7 that can actually be done very, very easily in

8 the context of existing crops production. 

9 And I understand that the goals

10 were kind of amalgamated over time, and that's

11 very complicated particularly when Committee

12 members change over time. I totally get the

13 challenges that were in play. But to Joe's

14 question: What's the main point? If the main

15 point was hydroponics in Canada, that's very

16 discreet and I think this is not a discreet

17 solution.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

19 MS. HEINZE: So do you object to

20 that content or do you just object that it all

21 got muddled together?

22 MR. FOSTER: A little bit of both.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 72

1 MS. HEINZE: Are there specific

2 things in the content to which you object?

3 MR. FOSTER: Not that I feel can

4 be effectively dealt with in the context of

5 this meeting. I think it's a long -- much

6 longer discussion.

7 MS. HEINZE: Okay. Well they be

8 addressed in their rulemaking process?

9 MR. FOSTER: I think they can be.

10 MS. HEINZE: Thank you.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

12 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes. And I'd

13 just like to make clear it wasn't the main

14 intent just to be compatible with Canada's

15 thought on hydroponics. We had an

16 overwhelming response from the public that

17 they did not want organic hydroponics.

18 So however I feel about it

19 personally, our community spoke loud and clear

20 over many years on that issue.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Other

22 comments or questions? Seeing none.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 73

1 Any conflict of interest?

2 Proceed to the vote.

3 Jeff?

4 MR. MOYER: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

6 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

8 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy is

10 absent for this motion.

11 Joe Smillie?

12 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John

14 Foster?

15 MR. FOSTER: No.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

17 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

19 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

21 Dickson?

22 MR. DICKSON: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 74

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

2 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

4 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

6 MR. HALL: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: And Wendy?

8 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The Chair

10 votes yes. 

11 Two absent, one no, 12 yes. 

12 Motion passes.

13 I'd ignore this but I think it's

14 just too obvious to completely ignore it. Our

15 Vice Chair is dealing with some personal

16 issues at home that she's needing to be very

17 close to her phone and making some phone

18 calls. And we will just be -- respectfully

19 accommodate whatever she absolutely needs to

20 be handling. And Jay has agreed to help us

21 make sure we get the votes right.

22 Are you finished?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 75

1 SECRETARY ELLOR: That concludes

2 the Corp Committee official business for this

3 meeting. Thank you very much.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

5 Okay. We are currently ahead of

6 schedule, so we've been looking for a place to

7 slide something in. Miles has a presentation,

8 please.

9 MR. McEVOY: We have some plaques

10 for the new members. So thank you very much

11 for your service. I don't know if you knew

12 what you were getting yourselves into, but

13 here you go. And you get a nice plaque to

14 welcome you to the National Organics Standards

15 Board. Thank you very, very much for your

16 public service.

17 So there are plaques for Annette

18 Riherd, Wendy Fulrider, Jay Feldman, John

19 Foster and Joe Dickson.

20 So thank you very much. And here

21 we go.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Can the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 76

1 new members please come up so that we can have

2 everybody getting their plaques and we can get

3 some pictures for you guys.

4 We'll take a break after this.

5 MS. HEINZE: Welcome to the team.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

7 It's almost 9:15. Break until

8 9:30.

9 (Whereupon, at 9:14 a.m. the

10 above-entitled matter went off the record and

11 resumed at 9:35 a.m.)

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay.

13 We're back from break a few minutes late.

14 I realized in the middle of that

15 first session that while I had already checked

16 out of my room and I realized that I left

17 something in my room. So I had to run back

18 over to the hotel before my room got cleaned.

19 So we have an announcement here. 

20 This evening from 6:30 until 11:00 there will

21 be post-NOSB meeting party to celebrate

22 another successful organic week. The dinner
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 77

1 dance will be in Sacramento. For details and

2 directions please see Katherine DiMatteo or

3 Bill Wolf.

4 I was asked if this would be

5 appropriate yesterday and I said we would only

6 announce it if everyone was invited.

7 Katrina, I'm going to finish

8 passing this around. Hopefully, I will have

9 a chance to look at this at the next break.

10 Okay. Anything else? Any other

11 housekeeping we need before we proceed further

12 with the voting part of our meeting?

13 All right. Next up is Livestock

14 Acting Chair Jeff Moyer.

15 MR. MOYER: Thank you, Mr.

16 Chairman. Again, standing in for Committee

17 Chairperson Kevin Engelbert. I would be amiss

18 if I didn't thank Kevin for all of his hard

19 work in pulling this together. It's a

20 privilege for stand in for Kevin on this at

21 this meeting and to conduct the voting.

22 Hopefully throughout the course of
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 78

1 this part of the discussion you'll hear

2 Kevin's voice in most of the things that we've

3 done.

4 Our first item of business, Mr.

5 Chairman, is the petition material methionine. 

6 So I'd like to bring that up for discussion

7 here.

8 The Livestock Committee met

9 briefly yesterday and this morning to discuss

10 these documents, all the documents we're

11 looking at. And the methionine document we

12 have not made any suggested changes from

13 yesterday. So the document you see today in

14 front of as a Board for voting --

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Mr.

16 Chairman?

17 MR. MOYER: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The first

19 thing we need to do is vote on the petition

20 and then our recommendation.

21 MR. MOYER: That's correct. There

22 are two votes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 79

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

2 MR. MOYER: There will be two

3 votes, that's what I was getting to.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

5 MR. MOYER: The documents that you

6 see in front of you are exactly as they were

7 presented yesterday. There are two documents

8 that we'll be voting on.

9 The first document is the petition

10 from the Methionine Task Force, who again I

11 want to thank them publicly for all the hard

12 work that they've done throughout the course

13 of this lengthy multi-year discussion.

14 The first document we'll be voting

15 on is their petition. And then there's a

16 possibility we'll be having a second vote

17 based on the outcome of that vote.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Make for

19 the motion for that.

20 MR. MOYER: There's a question. 

21 Proceed to the question.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We'll need
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 80

1 to make two lines. We'll have a methionine

2 petition line and a methionine LC

3 recommendation line.

4 MR. MOYER: Right.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Depending

6 on the result of the first one.

7 MR. MOYER: It's on the outcome of

8 the first one.

9 MR. MOYER: Mr. Chairman, the

10 Committee's recommendation regarding the

11 petition of methionine, and it was --

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: To lists.

13 MR. MOYER: -- unanimous --

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: But to

15 list.

16 MR. MOYER: Right. The vote would

17 be to list this material with the

18 recommendation by the Livestock Committee at

19 the rate of, and if you want I can read the

20 exact petition. It's amending the annotation

21 for synthetic methionine on the National List

22 205.603 to read: DL-Methionine, DL-Methionine
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 81

1 hydroxy analog and DL-Methionine hydroxy

2 analog calcium for use only in organic poultry

3 production until October 1, 2015 provided that

4 the total amount of synthetic methionine in

5 the diet remains below the following levels

6 calculated as an average pounds per ton of

7 1000 percent synthetic methionine in the diet

8 over the life of the bird.

9 Laying chickens 4 pounds, broiler

10 chickens 5 pounds, turkeys and other poultry

11 6 pounds.

12 I move that we -- I'm not sure how

13 to make my motion for this petition.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We need to

15 accept the annotation change --

16 MR. MOYER: I move that we accept

17 the annotation change. Thank you.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Second?

19 MR. HALL: Second.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: It's been

21 moved and seconded to accept the annotation

22 change as listed in the petition.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 82

1 We'll get to debate in a minute. 

2 I just want to take this minute to clarify

3 especially for the new members and the

4 audience, the way we've evolved in dealing

5 with these issues with our Board and in

6 Robert's Rules of Order the closest thing that

7 we have found, and now with Jay's experience

8 in parliamentary procedure maybe we can find

9 something else. But the closest thing we've

10 found to the petition process is the

11 procedures in Robert's Rules of Order

12 following submission of bylaw change. That is

13 where recommendations are submitted from the

14 public, which are then reviewed and analyzed

15 by Committee and then presented in the form

16 that they were originally presented to the

17 Board for vote. That's the structure of what

18 we're dealing with here.

19 So we list these in an affirmative

20 vote.

21 The other reason we do that that's

22 very pertinent to the Board is that OFPA calls
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 83

1 for all substantive action on this Board to be

2 a two-thirds vote. So if something is to be

3 listed, it requires a two-thirds vote.

4 In the essence of time a negative

5 motion that fails does not list -- it's not

6 just a simple majority. The motion to not

7 list that fails, you could follow that up with

8 a motion to list that would also fail. 

9 Because neither, if the vote was 8 to 7 on a

10 15 member Board, neither would pass.

11 The motion of importance is the

12 motion to list. That is the substantive

13 action that this Board needs to take. The

14 alternative of a motion to not list passing

15 doesn't accomplish anything, but could add

16 time to the process.

17 So we're not meaning to appear to

18 bait and switch. We're not meaning to appear

19 deceptive. There's foundation in Robert's

20 Rules of Order for the way we proceed. And

21 for the expediting the work of this Board

22 according to the votes that are required in
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 84

1 OFPA, this is the process that we proceed

2 with.

3 So, this motion is to accept the

4 recommendation of --

5 MR. MOYER: Yes.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: -- and the

7 petition for the annotation change, the

8 Committee's recommendation on that vote was to

9 fail.

10 MR. MOYER: Thank you for that

11 clarification.

12 MR. FLAMM: Thank you for the

13 motion.

14 Any further debate?

15 MR. MOYER: No. I appreciate that

16 clarification because it is confusing. That

17 and three hour's sleep was why I wasn't sure

18 how to make the motion. But I appreciate your

19 help on that and clarification.

20 And the Committee's recommendation

21 is to not approve that motion.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 85

1 debate? Katrina?

2 MS. HEINZE: So I was thinking

3 about this last night. I just want to make

4 sure I'm clear on these points.

5 So the kind of historic aversion

6 to methionine is not necessarily the material,

7 but because its use compensates for production

8 standards that we're not comfortable with. 

9 But even what I heard yesterday was even with

10 the right production standards it's possible

11 the animal might not get enough methionine.

12 And then the other thing I heard

13 was the material has a hard cut-off date in

14 October. So if we don't do something at this

15 meeting, there's no refining at all?

16 MR. MOYER: That's absolutely

17 correct.

18 MS. HEINZE: Okay. There's a lot

19 of natural alternatives in the works, but not

20 for act over?

21 MR. MOYER: That's also correct.

22 MS. HEINZE: Okay. So as I
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 86

1 understand it, even with the right production

2 standards, natural alternatives for methionine

3 are still going to be necessary?

4 MR. MOYER: That's our

5 understanding from the lengthy discussion and

6 in put from the public, and particularly the

7 poultry produces, and the Methionine Task

8 Force.

9 MS. HEINZE: So listing but with

10 the step down, is that a way to encourage

11 those natural alternatives?

12 MR. MOYER: Yes, but that's the

13 second vote.

14 MS. HEINZE: I get that. Yes.

15 MR. MOYER: Okay. 

16 MS. HEINZE: I wanted to make sure

17 I was clear on this vote.

18 MR. MOYER: Yes. You have it

19 exactly correct.

20 MS. HEINZE: Okay. Thank you.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe?

22 MR. SMILLIE: Again, I'm not sure
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 87

1 if it's proper to address the possible second

2 vote, or probable second vote. But --

3 MR. MOYER: I'm fine with it.

4 MR. SMILLIE: You're fine with it? 

5 Okay. 

6 MR. MOYER: Yes.

7 MR. SMILLIE: I'd just like to

8 explore why there wasn't a middle ground found

9 between the petitioner and the Committee

10 recommendation? I'd been lead to believe that

11 there was going to be some middle ground on --

12 MR. MOYER: Let's do that part. 

13 IF that's the amount that you want to do with

14 the next vote, let's do that then.

15 MR. SMILLIE: Okay. 

16 MR. MOYER: I thought your point

17 was to discuss that in relationship to this.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: If this

19 motion passes, we don't go to the second vote.

20 MR. MOYER: That's right.

21 MR. FELDMAN: I'm sorry. I got a

22 little distracted during your questioning,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 88

1 which was the exact question that I wanted to

2 ask. So the first vote is on the --

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay. 

4 Tina, please.

5 Go ahead.

6 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes, I wanted to

7 bring up something Jennifer brought up during

8 the break and I thought it was a really good

9 point that two no votes and methionine goes

10 away, right? Am I correct?

11 MR. MOYER: That is correct. If

12 you voted no on this first vote on the

13 petition, and then also no on the Committee

14 recommendation, October whatever the date is

15 2010 October 1st, it goes away. 2010, yes. 

16 It would go away.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

18 MR. FELDMAN: Thanks. I'm fine.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

20 debate? Questions? Ready for the question? 

21 Katrina?

22 MS. HEINZE: So if you don't want
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 89

1 the industry to lose methionine --

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: You have

3 to vote for one of them.

4 MS. HEINZE: But you also have to

5 hope that the second one is going to pass,

6 right?

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

8 MS. HEINZE: So if the second one

9 doesn't pass, is there an opportunity to come

10 back and revisit?

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: There is

12 always the potential motion to reconsider.

13 MS. HEINZE: Okay. Thank you.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

15 questions, comments?

16 MR. MOYER: I would just mention,

17 Mr. Chairman, that the Committee did try to

18 seek compromise between the many public

19 comments that we heard regarding the idea that

20 some folks want no methionine, some people say

21 we need some. So when we get further down the

22 road to address what Katrina had to do, there
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 90

1 was some discussion.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

3 debate? Question?

4 To accept the petition for

5 annotation change on the listing of

6 methionine. Jay?

7 MR. FELDMAN: No.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

9 SECRETARY ELLOR: No.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: No.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I'm sorry. 

13 Any conflict of interest? Hearing none, we'll

14 proceed.

15 Joe Smillie?

16 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John

18 Foster?

19 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

21 MR. DeMURI: No.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 91

1 MS. HEINZE: No.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

3 Dickson?

4 MR. DICKSON: No.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No.

6 Barry?

7 MR. FLAMM: No.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

9 MR. RIHERD: No.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

11 MR. HALL: No.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

13 MS. FULWIDER: No.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

15 MR. MOYER: No.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The Chair

17 votes no.

18 We have one absent, no abstain, no

19 conflict. And two yes. I hate the way we do

20 this. 12 no, 2 yes, 1 absent. Motion fails.

21 MR. MOYER: Next item, Mr.

22 Chairman, is the recommendation from the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 92

1 Livestock Committee on methionine, and I'll

2 read the recommendation as proposed by the

3 Committee, and I'll read the recommendation as

4 proposed by the Committee.

5 The recommendation is amend 7 CFR

6 205.603(d)(1) as follows: DL-Methionine, DL7 Methionine hydroxy analog and DL-Methionine

8 hydroxy analog calcium for the use in organic

9 poultry production until October 1, 2012 at

10 the following maximum levels per ton of

11 synthetic methionine in the feed ration.

12 Laying chickens, 4 pounds per ton,

13 broiler chickens 5 pounds per tons, and turkey

14 and all other poultry 6 pounds per ton.

15 After October 1, 2012 the

16 following maximum levels per ton:

17 Laying and broiler chickens 2

18 pounds per ton, and turkeys and all other

19 poultry 3 pounds per ton.

20 I make the motion that we accept

21 this recommendation from the Livestock

22 Committee.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 93

1 SECRETARY ELLOR: Second.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Second

3 Tina.

4 Okay. It's been moved and

5 seconded to accept the recommendation from the

6 Livestock Committee in the listing of

7 methionine.

8 Maker of the motion, do you have

9 any further debate?

10 MR. MOYER: No, Mr. Chairman.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

12 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you.

13 First of all, thank you to the

14 Committee for an incredible -- incredibly

15 important and good work on this. 

16 I'm glad to hear you were thinking

17 about it last night, Katrina. because it kept

18 me all night.

19 So I wanted to raise with four

20 issues that I've been struggling with. And

21 starting with the fact that I support a phased

22 down and with the hope that this would become
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 94

1 a phase out. And so I'm looking for that in

2 this Committee recommendation.

3 Number 2, it's hard for me, given

4 that I view the Sunset process as needing

5 repair, as agreeing to something that goes

6 back into the Sunset process, which I

7 understand to be the process here.

8 MR. MOYER: That's correct.

9 MR. FELDMAN: It's very difficult

10 to get out of the Sunset process at this

11 point. Now that may change, and my hope is it

12 will change. Very difficult to re-annotate

13 through the Sunset process. I know we can use

14 the petition process to do that. So I'm

15 troubled by the fact that we're not going from

16 phase down to phase out.

17 As we heard, there is very

18 promising research on the horizon. I think we

19 as a Board need to do everything we can,

20 especially -- and this is somewhat systemic or

21 this is a systemic question for us as a Board. 

22 How do we create those proper incentives to go
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 95

1 from phase down to phase out rather than phase

2 down to evergreen without any real incentive

3 there for either changes in practices, changes

4 in breeds, changes in methodology of how we

5 view organic production in this arena.

6 So, my goal here is to not be

7 disruptive, but my goal here is to create the

8 proper incentives to get to where we want to

9 be. And I say that with utmost respect for

10 you, Wendy, and others that have so elegantly

11 articulated the need here. It's a catch-22

12 for me.

13 I also think we really need to

14 have a clear legal reading from the NOP on

15 what our authority is on this area. And I

16 think the Board, you know historically has

17 wanted to codify practices that are conceived

18 to be accepted practices of the industry. And

19 our role as a Board, I believe, is to

20 challenge those practices constantly and work

21 with industry to find -- you know, this is an

22 evolutionary process. We're always
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 96

1 transitioning to something better, hopefully. 

2 But I would ask the NOP to look at and give

3 us, if possible, an assessment or an

4 interpretation of 6517(c)(1)(b)(i) or little

5 one, which is the exemption for prohibited

6 substances in organic production and handling

7 operations, and the categories of substances

8 for which the NOSB is allowed to issue those

9 exemptions for.

10 So, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the

11 work, I do. I don't want to be disruptive to

12 organic productionists, and then I know the

13 Board doesn't want to be in this arena. I

14 think we need to know our legal standing here,

15 and I was hoping we could do a phase down to

16 phase out and put the burden back on the user

17 community to relist at that point, rather than

18 put the burden on the NOSB to find, which we

19 will never find because we typically don't in

20 my experience, to find that there is a problem

21 and then be told that previous Boards have not

22 found a problem, so why can we find a problem. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 97

1 It's a catch-22.

2 So I would urge that this proposal

3 be amended to be a phase down, as you propose

4 to a phase out, which will shift the burden to

5 the industry to come up with an alternative,

6 or support.

7 This will -- this will I guarantee

8 -- I mean I don't guarantee. But I suspect

9 this will open the flood gates for research in

10 this arena because they will know, the

11 community will know we are serious about

12 moving to a better day.

13 So thank you. And thank you again

14 for your work on this. Appreciate it.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff, do

16 you have a response?

17 MR. MOYER: I guess I'm trying to

18 find out if in your comment there was a

19 question to the Program that you would like

20 addressed right now.

21 MR. FELDMAN: Well, I'm not sure.

22 MR. MOYER: Or is that -- I wasn't
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 98

1 sure what your question was. What is your

2 question?

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I think

4 part of that answer is in the fact that it

5 keeps getting relisted and it's gone through

6 Federal Register notice a number of times to

7 do that.

8 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: One of

10 your issues addressed was an effort to pinch

11 the industry to prompt further research. That

12 was part of the basis for the original writing

13 of this document to have an additional step

14 down.

15 MR. MOYER: Right.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The

17 Committee felt that it took the step down

18 process to take -- it would take too long.

19 MR. MOYER: Right.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Because

21 we'd have to give a couple of years at each

22 step. They didn't like the length of time
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 99

1 that it was going to do.

2 Also, when you come in with the

3 next amount of step down, it had no scientific

4 basis for those amounts to be used. And it

5 was felt that it was an effort to pinch, but

6 we didn't have any of the basis to create

7 those numbers.

8 So, that was some of the intent

9 along the way of how we ended up. But the

10 original idea of this, number one, is even

11 though there is a certain part of the industry

12 that wants methionine completely off the List,

13 there's an even greater part of the industry

14 that they don't want to have to deal with a

15 repetition process everything two to four

16 years. This puts it on Sunset, puts it in

17 that process. We'll always have that to fall

18 back on. But instead of just giving them

19 methionine to use at the full amounts that

20 anybody wants to, it does start putting some

21 fences around it.

22 Jennifer?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 100

1 MR. HALL: Jay, just a question. 

2 Am I hearing part of your comments that

3 potentially be a friendly amendment?

4 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

5 MR. HALL: Okay. Do you want to

6 suggest that?

7 MR. FELDMAN: Yes, I would. I like

8 to propose that we amend this proposal to

9 require a phase out at the end of the phase

10 down period. And I don't know, I mean you can

11 play with the wording on that.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: If we just

13 go back the wording of how many years would

14 you like the second phase to be?

15 MR. FELDMAN: Well, you had in

16 there 2012, and what was your second time

17 frame?

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Second

19 time frame puts it on Sunset.

20 MR. MOYER: Right.

21 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

22 MR. MOYER: Which is five years.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 101

1 MR. FELDMAN: I would like to go

2 for the phase down and make that the phase out

3 period will require a relisting at that point

4 and see where we are with the research and

5 whether we have made any progress.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: So you

7 would like to add to the motion of adding that

8 it --

9 MR. FELDMAN: I guess it's to

10 phase down during the period from 2010 to

11 2012, at which point methionine would phase

12 out.

13 MR. MOYER: Yes, the

14 recommendation.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. So

16 your motion would be use in organic poultry

17 production until October 1, 2017? Or how many

18 years? How many years? Two more years?

19 MR. FELDMAN: Two more years.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Two more. 

21 So 2014. I'm trying to get this straight,

22 folks.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 102

1 MR. FELDMAN: Sorry.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: '15, '17,

3 yes.

4 MR. MOYER: Well, '17 is what we--

5 if it's under Sunset, but I don't know what

6 he's proposing.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Well, he's

8 asking for two more years.

9 MR. FELDMAN: No. I'm asking for

10 two -- if we do nothing --

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Right.

12 MR. FELDMAN: -- this phases out

13 when?

14 MR. MOYER: 2010.

15 MR. FELDMAN: 2010.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Right.

17 MR. FELDMAN: So I'm saying two

18 years beyond that, which is 2012.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Well this

20 recommendation puts the -- the recommendation

21 is to put the first fence around their use

22 until October 1, 2012.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 103

1 MR. MOYER: And the rates standard

2 for clarification are the rates that we asked

3 for --

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: For four,

5 five and six as asked for by the petitioner.

6 MR. MOYER: Correct.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. The

8 second step down after October 1, 2012, the

9 following maximum levels per ton: Laying and

10 broiler chicks 2 pounds per ton, turkey and

11 all poultry -- I'm sorry. Laying and broiler

12 chickens 2 pounds per ton, and turkeys and all

13 other poultry 3 pounds per ton until October

14 1, 20 --

15 MR. MOYER: Fifteen he said.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: You want

17 three years?

18 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. So that's

19 what I would suggest instead of a phase down

20 a phase out at that second phase.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

22 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 104

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: So the

2 motion, if I'm allowed to paraphrase -- 

3 you're making it the form of a motion.

4 MR. FELDMAN: Yes, correct. Thank

5 you.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The motion

7 is to amend the recommendation to add the

8 words until October 1, 2015.

9 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Is there--

11 MR. MOYER: I think you have to

12 add the word at which time it phases out to--

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No, we

14 don't. By the expiration date that is a --

15 that's it.

16 MR. MOYER: That is an expiration

17 date? Okay. 

18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Point

19 of order. When we have a motion and it's been

20 seconded and it's on the table, can we have a

21 second motion?

22 MR. MOYER: You can have a motion
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 105

1 to amend. It's a motion to amend.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: It's a

3 secondary motion to the primary.

4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Okay. 

5 So in both the original maker of the motion

6 and the second would have to agree to this

7 amendment.

8 MR. MOYER: That's correct. 

9 That's what we're getting to now.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: For it to

11 be friendly not to require a vote, it would

12 be.

13 Jeff, maker of the motion, would

14 you accept that amendment? Would you accept

15 that --

16 MR. MOYER: He has a question.

17 MR. FELDMAN: Excuse me. I mean,

18 I believe I can propose an amendment on which

19 the Board can vote.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

21 MR. FELDMAN: If Tracy wants to

22 amend my motion, I would have to accept that
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 106

1 as a friendly motion.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No. You

3 weren't looking to amend anything Jay said,

4 were you?

5 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: No. I

6 want to be able to vote on the motion that was

7 --

8 MR. MOYER: No. But you have to

9 first vote on my motion.

10 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: -- the

11 first motion?

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Right. 

13 Right.

14 MR. MOYER: But we first have to

15 address his.

16 MS. HEINZE: We'll have to address

17 my motion first.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

19 MR. MOYER: Sorry.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: So we have

21 the motion to amend.

22 MR. FELDMAN: I need a second,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 107

1 though.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Well, no.

3 If Jeff and Tina accept that as a friendly

4 amendment, historical preference of the Board

5 has been to absorb it into the motion.

6 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. Okay. 

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff, do

8 you accept that?

9 MR. MOYER: I do not.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

11 That answers that.

12 Do we have a second on the

13 amendment?

14 MR. FLAMM: I'll second the

15 amendment.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

17 It's been moved and seconded to amend the main

18 motion by adding the words until October 1,

19 2015, is that correct?

20 MR. FELDMAN: Correct.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. Any

22 discussion on the amendment? Katrina?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 108

1 No, I'm sorry. Maker of the

2 motion, do you have any further discussion on

3 this?

4 MR. FELDMAN: No.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

6 MS. HEINZE: So I want to be

7 clear. We're voting on the addition of the

8 words until October 2, 2015?

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

10 MS. HEINZE: If we vote no, we go

11 back to the original and vote yes it stays?

12 MR. FELDMAN: Correct.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

14 Correct. Correct.

15 MR. FELDMAN: Just got all our

16 member, we want to make sure everyone is clear

17 on what they vote.

18 MR. MOYER: Correct. It's always

19 better to be clear.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

21 MR. HALL: I would just like to

22 clarify with the Program that that wording
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 109

1 does actually establish an expiration?

2 MR. McEVOY: Yes. The wording is

3 awkward.

4 MR. HALL: Yes.

5 MR. McEVOY: I think there is a

6 lack of clarity in what you're proposing here. 

7 So I'm not exactly sure how you should word

8 it, but so you're pretty much everything is in

9 place and then on October 1, 2015 methionine

10 is no longer allowed. I would add that. 

11 Until October 1, 2015, methionine comes off

12 the list.

13 MR. MOYER: Thank you.

14 MR. FELDMAN: I think that needs

15 to be there, yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. The

17 current listing, if we could refer to that, is

18 for use only in organic poultry production --

19 it finishes. For use in only in organic

20 poultry production until October 1, 2010. We

21 would be consistent with the current listing

22 to add for use only in organic poultry
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 110

1 production and then finishing with October 1,

2 2015. That would be consistent with what it

3 is now. Is that okay.

4 MR. McEVOY: The clarification is

5 what is valid until October 1, 2015? Is it

6 the annotation or is the substance? So I

7 think that's why you have to clarify it.

8 MR. FELDMAN: That's it.

9 MR. NEAL: This is Arthur.

10 This is why annotations are so

11 critical. The longer the annotation, the more

12 susceptible it is to abuse. So you want to

13 make sure that you're writing clearly and in

14 short statements if possible, because you want

15 people to be very clear in terms of what the

16 expectation is. So the inclusion of so many

17 dates in this annotation, you probably want to

18 make sure that you break those up.

19 Don't know exactly how, I'm like

20 Miles right now, because there's a lot we're

21 trying in that annotation. But some

22 additional thought just may want to be given
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 111

1 to communicating that annotation clearly so

2 that it doesn't get twisted and provide an

3 opportunity for somebody to exploit it.

4 MR. FELDMAN: I think we can add

5 the phrase if you think this is appropriate,

6 as of which date the use of methionine would

7 phase out. Then there's no question of

8 whether phasing -- expired. Then there's no

9 question as to whether we're talking about the

10 annotation or the product.

11 MR. McEVOY: Yes. I would use the

12 term phase out.

13 MR. FELDMAN: Expired. Expired.

14 MR. McEVOY: But expired is much

15 better. Yes.

16 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you.

17 And just again so the Board

18 realizes here, I'm not suggesting that there

19 wouldn't be a case that could be made for it's

20 continued use at that point. But, again, it

21 shifts the burden to the industry to show us

22 that a product that no one it seemed -- even
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 112

1 those who use it, no one is that happy with

2 it. That it gets a really rigorous review at

3 that point.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. I'm

5 just making a note here so I can --

6 MR. NEAL: Arthur again.

7 Just another thought.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

9 MR. NEAL: Potentially putting a

10 period at the end of the 3 pounds per ton, the

11 last line and then just beginning a new

12 sentence saying that on October 1, 2015 the

13 use of methionine will expire. Instead of

14 putting another comma there.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Would that

16 be acceptable to the maker of the motion? 

17 Okay. 

18 Maker of the second?

19 Barry, would that be acceptable to

20 you?

21 Okay. So the amendment is to add

22 the words at the end of the current
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 113

1 annotation. The new sentence, on October 1,

2 2015 the use of methionine in organic poultry

3 production expires. Is that acceptable to

4 both of you?

5 Berry?

6 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

8 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: So the

10 maker of the motion and the maker and the

11 second have accepted this. So this is now the

12 amendment that we are discussing, addition of

13 the sentence at the end of the current

14 annotation, October 1, 2015 the use of

15 methionine in organic poultry production

16 expires.

17 Katrina?

18 MS. HEINZE: I think this is a

19 very important discussion. I am concerned

20 about exactly what wording we're voting on. 

21 I'm not sure that I'm ready to do this. I was

22 going to suggest that perhaps we take a
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 114

1 breather on this. Let the folks really look

2 at the wording, and then we come back after

3 lunch and regroup on it do we really get the

4 wording right. Because what you're reading

5 doesn't match the screen and there's periods. 

6 And I'd rather that we really get the working

7 right and then come back and really be able to

8 vote.

9 So I believe I make a motion to

10 defer. Is that the proper -- to pause? 

11 What's my right thing to do here?

12 MR. FELDMAN: Mr. Chairman, I

13 would accept that as a friendly amendment.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Well,

15 okay. Could you make the motion to table

16 until after lunch?

17 MS. HEINZE: I make a motion to

18 table until after lunch.

19 MR. HALL: Second.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Second.

21 Okay. Help me out. Table two22 thirds or majority?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 115

1 Majority? Okay. My parliamentary

2 procedure advisor says majority.

3 Okay. I know it's debatable.

4 So it's been moved and seconded to

5 table this until after lunch. 

6 Those in favor aye.

7 (Chorus of ayes.)

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Opposed

9 nay.

10 (Chorus of nays.)

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. The

12 Chair is unsure. We'll go with a voice vote? 

13 Joe? Joe first.

14 MR. SMILLIE: That's fine. We're

15 talking about tabling the amendment, right?

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We're

17 talking about tabling of the discussion for

18 methionine at the point in time we are right

19 now. We have a motion and an amendment.

20 Jay, did you have --

21 MR. FELDMAN: That's fine. Thank

22 you.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 116

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

2 MR. SMILLIE: I was curious as to

3 why there's vote opposing it, the people that

4 are opposing them or opposing this.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The Chair

6 was not sure, let's do a voice vote.

7 Barry, on the motion to table?

8 MR. FLAMM: Yes. I agree to

9 table.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

11 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

13 MR. HALL: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

15 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

17 MR. MOYER: No.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

19 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

21 SECRETARY ELLOR: No.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 117

1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: No.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe?

3 MR. SMILLIE: No.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

5 MR. FOSTER: No.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

7 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

9 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

11 Dickson?

12 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Chair

14 votes yes.

15 So the results are five no, nine

16 yes, the motion to table this discussion until

17 after lunch passes.

18 Mr. Chairman, please proceed with

19 your next item.

20 MR. MOYER: Thank you, Mr.

21 Chairman.

22 And the next item are the Sunset
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 118

1 substances on 205.603. It's a rather lengthy

2 list. I will go through the list reading only

3 the main materials, not all of the annotations

4 as we go through them.

5 Under 205.603(a) disinfectants

6 sanitizers and medial treatments as

7 applicable. We have atropine, biologics -

8 vaccines, butrophanol, chlorahexidine,

9 electrolytes, flunixin.

10 And the Committee, as discussed

11 yesterday, is setting aside furosemide, which

12 was on our list yesterday but we're setting it

13 aside deferring it to fall, the fall meeting. 

14 So, you know, you see it on your list. It is

15 being deferred. We voted on that as a

16 Committee.

17 Nitrogen peroxide, iodine,

18 magnesium hydroxide, oxytocin, paraciticides,

19 invermectin, peroxyacetic/peracetic acid,

20 phosphoric acid, poloxalene, tolazoline,

21 xylazine, and that completes that list.

22 We're also adding under 205.603(b)
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 119

1 topical treatment, external parasiticide or

2 local anesthetic, iodine, lidocaine, lime

3 hydrated, mineral oil, procaine, sucrose

4 octanoate esters.

5 And then under 205.603(d) as feed

6 additives we have trace minerals and vitamins.

7 And under 205.603(f) excipients.

8 I make a motion that we approve

9 that recommendation.

10 SECRETARY ELLOR: Second.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Motion

12 made by Jeff. Seconded by Tina to accept the

13 Committee's recommendation on 603. Been

14 properly seconded.

15 That is the statement of the

16 motion, and that includes the withdrawal of

17 the one item no longer being in that list,

18 which is not part of the motion itself but

19 just making sure we all recognize that.

20 Maker of the motion, do you have

21 any debate?

22 MR. MOYER: I do not.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 120

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

2 further debate, questions on this topic from

3 the Board? Ready for the question? Okay. 

4 For the relisting of the 603 items

5 as recommended by the Livestock Committee.

6 Tina?

7 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe 

11 Smillie?

12 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John 

14 Foster?

15 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

17 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

19 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

21 Dickson?

22 MR. DICKSON: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 121

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

2 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

4 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

6 MR. HALL: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

8 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

10 MR. MOYER: Yes.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

12 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

14 conflicts of interest?

15 MR. MOYER: You didn't vote.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I know. 

17 No, I haven't yet.

18 Any conflicts of interest?

19 MR. MOYER: No.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

21 Seeing none. 

22 Chair votes yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 122

1 One absent, zero no's, 14 yes. 

2 Motion passes.

3 Next one, Mr. Livestock Chairman.

4 MR. MOYER: Thank you, Mr.

5 Chairman.

6 The next item on the Livestock

7 Committee's voting schedule is section 205-604

8 materials. These are non-synthetic substances

9 prohibited from use in livestock production. 

10 We have one material in this category under

11 section (a) strychnine.

12 The Committee's recommendation is

13 that we continue to not allow strychnine to be

14 used in organic production.

15 I make a motion that we accept the

16 Committee's recommendation

17 MR. HALL: Second.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. Mr.

19 Chairman, could you please rephrase that as

20 accepting the motion to relist?

21 MR. MOYER: Yes. I make a motion

22 that we accept the Committee's recommendation
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 123

1 to relist this material.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

3 Been moved and seconded. Jeff

4 moving, Jennifer seconding to accept the

5 Committee's recommendation to relist the

6 substance in 604.

7 Maker of the motion, do you have

8 any further debate? Jeff?

9 MR. MOYER: No, I do not.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any other

11 further debate on this topic? Seeing none,

12 proceed to vote.

13 Tracy?

14 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe 

16 Smillie?

17 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John 

19 Foster?

20 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

22 MR. DeMURI: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 124

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

2 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

4 Dickson?

5 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Conflict

7 of interest? I'm going to get this before the

8 last round.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

10 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

12 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

14 MR. HALL: Yes.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

16 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

18 MR. MOYER: Yes.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

20 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

22 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 125

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Chair

2 votes yes.

3 One absent, zero no, 14 yes.

4 Motion passes.

5 Mr. Chairman, your next item,

6 please.

7 MR. MOYER: The next item, Mr.

8 Chairman, on the Livestock's voting docket is

9 the animal health care products definition. 

10 The Livestock Committee met and has asked to

11 table that --

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Please

13 don't move to table. Just withdraw it.

14 MR. MOYER: We're going to

15 withdraw it. Sorry. We're not putting it on

16 the table. We are withdrawing that from the

17 voting docket.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

19 MR. MOYER: There's questions why

20 we're withdrawing it. We're withdrawing that

21 from the voting docket because the way it was

22 presented to the Board we don't have it in the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 126

1 right context of where it belongs. 

2 We positioned as being part of the

3 Animal Welfare document, it actually belongs

4 in the excipients document. So the language

5 that we had isn't appropriate. If we vote on

6 it, it won't be right. And so it does impact

7 the industry at all to defer this to a

8 November vote. So the Committee has withdrawn

9 it from the voting docket and you will see it

10 again in its proper context.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Livestock

12 Committee hugely apologizes for this, the way

13 it was structured.

14 Your next item.

15 I'm on Livestock, so I can --

16 MR. MOYER: Yes. I'm not sure how

17 we didn't catch that, but we didn't. We did

18 have a lot of work. And that's not an excuse,

19 just a reason.

20 The Livestock Committee's next

21 item on the agenda is the Animal Health Care

22 Products classification of 205.238(c)(1). The
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 127

1 Committee has met and has not made any changes

2 on that document from what you saw yesterday. 

3 That's the one that I have the minority

4 opinion.

5 I make the motion that we accept

6 the Committee's recommendation as written.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Second? 

8 Is there a second? 

9 MR. HALL: Second.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Motion

11 from Jeff seconded by Jennifer to accept the

12 recommendation from the Livestock Committee

13 regarding an amendment to section 238(c)(1).

14 Mr. Maker of the motion, do you

15 have any further discussion?

16 MR. MOYER: I do not.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

18 further debate?

19 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

21 MR. FELDMAN: I just want to make

22 sure I've got this right in terms of the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 128

1 public comments we've received. There is a

2 disagreement within the industry on how we

3 should handle this, is that fair?

4 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

5 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. 

6 MR. MOYER: Well, I'm not sure if

7 you mean there's a disagreement in -- I guess

8 in the industry, but also between the public

9 and the industry as well. 

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No,

11 there's --

12 MR. MOYER: There's some in the

13 industry as well.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. 

15 There's portions of the farmer industry.

16 MR. MOYER: Right.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The

18 processor industry that has differences of

19 agreement.

20 MR. MOYER: Right.

21 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. I just wanted

22 to just make sure that was true.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 129

1 MR. MOYER: Okay. Thank you. And

2 we heard that public comment several times

3 since we made our language recommendation in

4 November.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

6 MR. FLAMM: Thank you.

7 I guess this one has me confused,

8 especially the very clear and strong minority

9 opinion by the Chair of the Committee. And so

10 I have to respect those opinions. And also

11 the comments made by the Board on this issue,

12 and the divided comments among the public. And

13 not being on the Committee or very closely

14 involved, I'm not real clear what's happening

15 here.

16 I understand the explanation for

17 taking out the line that it was put it under -

18 - you know, without maybe full consideration. 

19 But I'm particularly -- you know, I'm

20 persuaded by that minority opinion. So I

21 don't know if anybody can help me through my

22 own dilemma here on the proper course of
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 130

1 action.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The

3 amendment suggested is to change what we

4 passed at the November meeting. A no vote

5 keeps in the sentence that we are recommending

6 to delete. So a no vote keeps the sentence

7 and 100 percent completely supports the

8 minority opinion. 

9 A no vote completely supports the

10 minority opinion. We don't even need to go

11 back and revote anything. That just reasserts

12 the existing language in the recommendation we

13 had in November and completely supports the

14 minority opinion.

15 Tina?

16 SECRETARY ELLOR: And here's the

17 difficulty and the reason why we decided to

18 take this action. Because this was put in in

19 one of those late night meetings by the person

20 who wrote the minority opinion. And without

21 any opportunity for -- you know, it was not in

22 response to public comment. It was not
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 131

1 subject to any public comment or public input

2 when it was put in.

3 So, you know, we did get a lot of

4 feedback and people very clearly explained to

5 us what the ramifications of this can be. And

6 we discussed some of those yesterday in terms

7 of beef out on the range, piglets. And, you

8 know, it's not like if you have one sow and

9 you have piglets, those piglets have to be on

10 the sow. I mean, there's a knock on effect to

11 this beyond the dairy and it's the dairy that

12 people mostly, I think, had in mind when they

13 were recommending against this.

14 And for me, personally, it's an

15 animal welfare issue. So that's why I would

16 support this particular document.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I have Jay

18 and then Wendy. But I'd like to further

19 respond to Jay's question earlier. I don't

20 think we gave Jay a full and complete answer.

21 There is also debate within the

22 regulatory part of our group as to whether
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 132

1 this recommendation is completely legal. The

2 issue of whether this action would allow the

3 feeding of a prohibited substance to a non4 sick animal is part of the regulatory debate. 

5 If they were to decide that that was the case,

6 I'm sure the Program would come back to us and

7 say that they could not accept that

8 recommendation.

9 MR. MOYER: That's correct. Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: If they do

11 come back with that recommendation we will

12 also or they will also then need to look at

13 what they are going to do with this milk

14 because the comment from Kevin making the

15 minority opinion is that you just go out and

16 dump it on your ground. Well, that would be

17 putting the synthetics, an unlisted synthetic

18 substance on organic crop ground also. So the

19 full ramifications in both directions will

20 need to be evaluated. 

21 But to complete the answer for

22 your question, there's even regulatory
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 133

1 consideration.

2 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you.

3 MR. MOYER: That's correct, Dan. 

4 But if we vote affirmative on the

5 recommendation by the Committee, it does put

6 it in the hands of the Program to address

7 that.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Correct.

9 Correct. Correct.

10 MR. MOYER: Not in the hands of

11 the Board.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Of what's

13 legal?

14 MR. MOYER: Of what's -- yes, of

15 what's legal and what's not.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: What's

17 legal within OFPA and the rest of the

18 regulation.

19 Jay, did you have any --

20 MR. FELDMAN: Yes. I was actually

21 going to ask about the prohibited material

22 issue. And thank you for clarifying that. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 134

1 Because I think that's very helpful.

2 In deliberations on this issue did

3 the Committee evaluate the range of synthetic

4 materials that are used in this context? I

5 guess these are therapeutic uses. And whether

6 there's any distinction that the Committee

7 could have made among the therapeutic uses,

8 say between parasiticides or antibiotics, or

9 types of antibiotics? Was there any

10 discussion regarding the type? You know,

11 because this seems pretty broad. This seems

12 all inclusive as opposed to limiting, to

13 zeroing in more on certain conditions and some

14 certain subset of those therapeutic drugs?

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

16 MS. FULWIDER: I believe this

17 primarily addresses things that would not

18 routinely be used, like the pain meds and the

19 Flunixin. And the pain meds would be, you

20 know if the animal needed surgery for some

21 reason. You know, and so therefore it's a

22 humane issue and we don't want to, you know
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 135

1 just be restraining the animal and tying her

2 down and, you know, doing surgery.

3 And the other one is the Flunixin. 

4 And that particular product, you know brings

5 down fevers. It's an anti-inflammatory. And

6 it prevents septic shock. And this is

7 particularly important that we have this

8 particular tool available to farmers that are

9 transitioning and have not learned all the

10 proper and appropriate organic tools that are

11 at their disposal. Because there is a

12 learning process for these folks to learn how

13 and when to administer these organic

14 medicines.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

16 MR. FELDMAN: Do you feel that

17 this wording is sufficiently narrow to not

18 exclude or to exclude other treatments that

19 might go beyond the two you just described;

20 the pains meds and the --

21 MS. FULWIDER: Flunixin.

22 MR. FELDMAN: -- Flunixin? My
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 136

1 question is, is the wording sufficiently

2 narrow to pertain solely to those uses as

3 opposed to something broader something?

4 MR. MOYER: Yes, Jay. Those are

5 the only materials that we have at our

6 disposal on the National List --

7 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

8 MR. MOYER: -- that have the

9 withholding times.

10 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

11 MR. MOYER: So it includes all of

12 them. We did not go specifically into each

13 material to determine. 

14 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. That's --

15 MR. MOYER: That was already done

16 in the review of those materials and the

17 withholding times are established.

18 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

19 MR. MOYER: This point of

20 discussion was whether or not that milk

21 retains its organic character and can be feed

22 as 100 percent feed to organic livestock or
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 137

1 whether it cannot. 

2 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. 

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

4 MR. FLAMM: Has the Committee

5 considered postponing a decision on this until

6 this regulatory issue is cleared up?

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: They're

8 shaking their heads. I think this

9 recommendation would put it right in the lap

10 for them to make that regulatory decision and

11 either accept or reject the document.

12 Valerie?

13 MS. FRANCES: Wasn't the intention

14 of this vote just to correct essentially kind

15 of a mistake in the previous recommendation

16 and really just keep things as the status quo

17 in the recommendation as they are right now?

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I think

19 that's the way some of the members would feel

20 and others would disagree.

21 MR. MOYER: Yes. Certainly the

22 writer of the minority opinion would not
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 138

1 consider it as a correction of a mistake but

2 a reaffirmation of the statement that they

3 thought was correct.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. 

5 Kevin writing the minority opinion was the

6 person who wrote that sentence --

7 MS. FRANCES: Yes. I didn't mean

8 to characterize it really as a mistake. I'm

9 sorry.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

11 MS. FRANCES: But just wasn't it

12 intended to just remove what was added?

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

14 MS. FRANCES: It would just keep

15 the regulation as it is right now.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. Part

17 of the industry that came to us with the

18 question and part of the Committee really sat

19 down and read what that sentence was that we

20 put in on that last day. We felt that we had

21 gone farther than we intended.

22 MR. MOYER: That's correct. And
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 139

1 it wasn't up for community debate at that

2 point or public comment. And some of the

3 comment that we got subsequent to that

4 sentence being added encouraged us to go back

5 and maybe retract that sentence.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Again, to

7 finish. Kevin would say it says exactly what

8 we have intended.

9 MR. MOYER: Right.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe?

11 MR. SMILLIE: I apologize, but I

12 just want to be really clear. I missed the

13 previous recommendation possibly. But this

14 wording limit to analgesics, like you couldn't

15 use a parasiticide, for example? 

16 Following the same question as

17 Jay's, but I didn't really catch the

18 definition answer.

19 MS. FULWIDER: Well, the

20 parasiticides are not allowed in this

21 discussion.

22 MR. SMILLIE: Right.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 140

1 MS. FULWIDER: I mean, this is

2 just about the pain meds and the Flunixin.

3 MR. SMILLIE: Okay. Absolutely

4 restricted to those two items?

5 MR. MOYER: Yes, that's my

6 understanding. And only to be used in

7 emergency situations.

8 MR. SMILLIE: Right.

9 MR. MOYER: This is not routinely

10 on just animals.

11 MR. SMILLIE: Okay. That's what I

12 thought, but I just wanted to be clear.

13 MR. MOYER: And only under a

14 veterinarian's care

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

16 MS. HEINZE: I have two questions. 

17 A follow-up on that one. How would a non18 expert know that? Because what it says is --

19 right. How would we know that? So if it's

20 prohibited, you can't sell it. So presumably

21 these are allowed non-synthetics?

22 MS. FULWIDER: Allowed synthetics.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 141

1 MS. HEINZE: Allowed synthetics?

2 MR. MOYER: Allowed synthetics.

3 MS. HEINZE: So when that was on

4 the list, there's a withholding time?

5 MR. MOYER: They're allowed

6 synthetics with a withholding time and

7 previous Boards have established a two times

8 the FDA withholding period for those

9 materials. Those are the materials we're

10 talking.

11 MS. HEINZE: Okay. And my second

12 question much more pragmatic is, my

13 understanding is this is current practice. So

14 this is what --

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Some.

16 MS. HEINZE: Some.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: In some

18 cases it's current practice, it some cases the

19 more restrict language is their current

20 practice of what's being enforced.

21 MR. MOYER: Both are current

22 practices.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 142

1 MS. HEINZE: Okay. 

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Let me

3 just read 238 Livestock Health Care Standards. 

4 (b) When preventative practice and veterinary

5 biologics are inadequate to prevent sickness. 

6 And this gets to both sides of your issue. A

7 producer may administer synthetic medications

8 provided that such medications are allowed

9 under 205.603. Parasiticides allowed under

10 205.603 may be used on to dairy stock when

11 used a minimum of 90 days prior to the

12 production of milk or milk products that are

13 to be sold, labeled or represented as organic.

14 So there is a specific statement

15 in the regulatory language of the rule

16 identifying the milk of the parasiticide

17 treatment animal as not organic.

18 Other discussion? Wendy?

19 MS. FULWIDER: We're not

20 requiring, you know that the farmers use the

21 pain meds when they do surgery, but we

22 certainly don't want to discourage them from
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 143

1 doing this because this will further label us

2 as being inhumane. And so we have the

3 science, you know and morally and ethically I

4 mean we should not be doing surgery on animals

5 without pain meds.

6 MR. MOYER: As a follow-up

7 representing Kevin, Kevin would say that

8 that's true, he would agree with that

9 statement. But then he would go further to say

10 that the milk that comes out of whatever

11 animal it is could not be fed to the young

12 stock. He would still treat his animals with

13 the pain meds, but he would dump that milk.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Is that

15 new or a follow-up, Katrina? New statement or

16 a follow-up to what Jeff just said?

17 Jay?

18 MR. FELDMAN: So, Dan, the point

19 of view of reading the annotation on

20 paraciticides is to suggest that the language

21 before us does not allow -- would not allow

22 the use of paraciticides? I mean, I guess I'm
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 144

1 having trouble --

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No. It

3 would --

4 MR. FELDMAN: I mean in this

5 context?

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

7 MR. FELDMAN: Right. Yes. And

8 substance that contains a synthetic not

9 allowed under 205.603. That's a huge --

10 that's the language here as proposed.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: As

12 prohibited?

13 MR. FELDMAN: Right. So the

14 presumption is -- there's no reference in here

15 to pain meds and referencing surgery, or that

16 sort of thing?

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No. No. 

18 The reference there is the excising out

19 specifically or of milk from cows treated with

20 the parasiticide as opposed to the pain meds

21 or other items with -- actually, it's not

22 limited to pain meds. Currently the only
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 145

1 thing on the List with or withholding

2 additional withholding time is pain meds, but

3 it's not limited to pain meds. It's other

4 substances on the List with a withholding time

5 which could change in the future.

6 MR. FELDMAN: Right. Thank you.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

8 MS. HEINZE: So clearly we want to

9 encourage farmers to use the pain medications

10 when they need to. We don't want to

11 discourage that.

12 So if we leave the sentence in, we

13 might be encouraging them to wean the young

14 from their mother too early, right? Because

15 they treat -- is that really what it comes

16 down to?

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Or not

18 using pain meds.

19 MS. HEINZE: Or not using pain

20 meds. It could be perceived that that's what

21 we're doing?

22 MR. MOYER: We don't know that for
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 146

1 a fact. But what you're saying is, yes, some

2 farmers could.

3 MS. HEINZE: Right.

4 MR. MOYER: In order to not dump

5 their milk, they could say we're not going to

6 use these materials.

7 MS. HEINZE: I'm just trying to

8 understand, right?

9 MR. MOYER: I don't want to

10 characterize farmers as not treating their

11 animals correctly, that's --

12 MS. HEINZE: Totally get that. 

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No, It's

14 going to end up coming down to what is legal

15 within the rule, you know. Is it legal to do

16 this? Is it legal to give this to the calves

17 or not. If it's not, I think someone's going

18 to have to look at well what can we do with

19 that milk? Because --

20 MR. MOYER: Right. And that's why

21 an affirmative vote here puts it in their

22 camp, not ours to decide that.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 147

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Miles?

2 MR. McEVOY: Or the suggestion

3 that you made a lot of questions basically

4 about this, that maybe you should just ask a

5 question of the Program and we can get back to

6 you on this. I'm clarifying --

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The intent

8 of the majority vote of the Livestock

9 Committee was to alter what was the final vote

10 of what was included in the recommendation in

11 November and bring it back to what the

12 majority of the Livestock Committee fully

13 intended that section to say when we were

14 going through all of our discussions in

15 reviewing it as opposed to the next step that

16 was taken on the last day when that sentence

17 was included.

18 MR. MOYER: As a point of

19 reference, Dan, all we're doing is if we make

20 that change, the full recommendation, the

21 final recommendation is on the plate of the

22 Program.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 148

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

2 MR. MOYER: This just clarifies

3 that paragraph.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

5 MR. MOYER: And keeps it on their

6 plate so they can act on it.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. Yes.

8 Arthur, did you have a statement?

9 MR. NEAL: I'm okay.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe?

11 MR. SMILLIE: Call the question.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Objection

13 to calling the question? Seeing no objection

14 and no further debate, call for the vote on

15 accepting the recommendation from the

16 Livestock Committee on the amendment to

17 section 238(c)(1). So an affirmative vote

18 accepts the deletion of that sentence and as

19 an amendment to the previous recommendation we

20 passed in November. A negative vote keeps

21 that sentence and completely supports the

22 opinion expressed in the minority opinion.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 149

1 MR. MOYER: That's correct.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

3 Smillie?

4 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John 

6 Foster?

7 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

9 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

11 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

13 Dickson?

14 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

16 MR. FLAMM: A reluctant yes.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

18 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

20 MR. HALL: Yes.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

22 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 150

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

2 MR. MOYER: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

4 MR. FELDMAN: No.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

6 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

8 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Conflict. 

10 Any conflicts?

11 Okay. One no, one absent --

12 MR. MOYER: Did you vote, Dan?

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Ah, yes.

14 One no, one absent, 13 yes. 

15 Motion passes.

16 Mr. Smillie?

17 MR. SMILLIE: There's been so much

18 channeling of Kevin, that I do want to urge

19 that if we find time during a break for Jay

20 Feldman to conduct his survey as to who is

21 channeling Kevin. I want to remind him of the

22 promise he made yesterday. I fully intend to
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 151

1 vote on that. So find an appropriate time.

2 MR. MOYER: I was going to suggest

3 earlier, but didn't think it appropriate, Joe,

4 that we just pretend that Kevin is sitting

5 here and that my voice is coming out of him.

6 MR. SMILLIE: I want a vote on

7 that. I want to vote,

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We did do

9 a straw pull at dinner, so I know who is

10 leading.

11 MR. MOYER: Mr. Chairmen, until we

12 return to the methionine question, that is the

13 end of the Livestock Committee.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: So to deal

15 with that issue, I would request that at a

16 break or at lunch we have the maker and person

17 making the second of both the original motion

18 and the amendment, just so we have all four

19 parties involved, so -- I'm asking them to be

20 there just so everybody understands what the

21 language is that we're dealing with. They

22 don't have the exact say, but I'd like them
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 152

1 aware.

2 So we have Jeff, Tina and Barry. 

3 It's mainly Jay and Berry that need to approve

4 this language, but just so everyone is

5 involved.

6 What time are we at? 10:45. 

7 Okay. We're ahead schedule.

8 And that concludes Livestock. 

9 Moving on to Handling, Steve, please.

10 It is the request of the Chair for

11 the Handling Committee to possibly consider--

12 and I expressed this to Steve early, so it's

13 not news to him. It's news to you. To

14 consider consolidation of their

15 recommendations so that we could vote 605(a),

16 605(b) and 606 as three separate motions

17 rather than the individual groupings that they

18 did by members of the Committee.

19 MR. DeMURI: Yes. And I am fine

20 with that. As I mentioned yesterday the group

21 things that we put together for ease of

22 presentation yesterday, not necessarily for
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 153

1 voting. So we will be voting the three

2 separate groups in. So the first group will

3 be all the 605(a) items, which I'll through in

4 a minute. And then we'll vote on all the

5 605(b) items. And then all the 606 items. So

6 there will be three separate votes for the

7 Handling Committee Sunset items.

8 So I think we went through a

9 pretty thorough review of all the items

10 yesterday. I'll start with the 205.601(a)

11 items. I'll just read them at this point. If

12 anybody has any specific questions, we can get

13 to that during the discussion after I go

14 through these.

15 So the first group is Sunset

16 materials for section 205.605(a) which are

17 nonagricultural, non-organic substances

18 allowed as ingredients in or on processed

19 products labeled as organic or made with

20 organic. And these are the non-synthetics. 

21 So they are: acids, bentonite,

22 calcium carbonate, calcium chloride,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 154

1 carrageenan, dairy cultures, diatomaceous

2 earth - food filtering aid only, kaolin,

3 nitrogen - oil-free grades, oxygen - oil-free

4 grades, perlite for use only as a filter aid

5 in food processing, potassium chloride, sodium

6 bicarbonate, sodium carbonate and waxes none

7 synthetic, carnauba wax and wood whip resin.

8 So those are the 605(a) items we'd

9 be voting on right now.

10 I'd like to make a motion that

11 these Sunset items be accepted as re-listed.

12 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Second.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Motion

14 made by Steve DeMuri, seconded by Tracy to

15 relist the items listed under 605(a) for

16 relisting in the Sunset Review process.

17 Mr. Maker of the motion, do you

18 have any further debate on this?

19 MR. DeMURI: No.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any other

21 debate? Ready for the vote?

22 MR. DeMURI: Conflict.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 155

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Conflict

2 of interest? Thank you.

3 MR. DeMURI: I do. Let me mention

4 that not only for the 605(a) item, but 605(b)

5 and some of the 606 items the company that I

6 work for does use some or all of these items

7 in our processes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Chair does

9 not that find that as a reason to recuse. But

10 I would like everyone with those similar

11 conflicts to reveal or state them.

12 Katrina?

13 MS. HEINZE: I also work for a

14 food manufacturer who may use some or all of

15 the items on 605(a), 606(b) and 606.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

17 Joe?

18 MR. DICKSON: Yes. I also work for

19 a retailer and a food manufacturer that uses

20 all or some of the items on 605(a), 605(b) and

21 606.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 156

1 John?

2 MR. FOSTER: Not surprisingly,

3 work for a manufacturer that may use some or

4 all of the items on 605 and 606.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you. 

6 Okay. 

7 MR. FELDMAN: I eat those things.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: So what

9 you're telling me then is they do have a

10 specific finance or impact on you, but we will

11 allow it at this point.

12 MR. DeMURI: We'll let you do it

13 then.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

15 further? Thank you.

16 Proceeding with the vote.

17 John?

18 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

20 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

22 MS. HEINZE: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 157

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

2 Dickson?

3 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

5 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

7 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

9 MR. HALL: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

11 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

13 MR. MOYER: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

15 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

17 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

19 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

21 Smillie?

22 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 158

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: And the

2 Chair votes yes.

3 One absent, zero no, 14 yes. Is

4 that what everyone else has? Of course that

5 was an easy one that I asked. Motion passes.

6 Your next item, Mr. Chairman?

7 MR. DeMURI: The next group would

8 be the 205.605(b) items. Again, all lumped

9 together for the vote. These are non-air

10 cultural, non-organic substances allowed as

11 ingredients in or on processed products

12 labeled as organic or made with organic. 

13 These are the synthetics that are allowed.

14 And they are: Calcium phosphates

15 (monobasic, diabasic, tribasic), carbon

16 dioxide, ethylene - allowed for post-harvest

17 ripening of tropic fruit and de-greening of

18 citrus, glycerides - mono and did for use only

19 in drum drying of food, glycerin produced by

20 hydrolysis of fats and oils, hydrogen

21 peroxide, magnesium carbonate for use only in

22 agricultural products labeled "made with
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 159

1 organic" prohibited in agricultural products

2 labeled "organic," magnesium chloride -

3 derived from sea water, magnesium stearate for

4 use only in agricultural products labeled

5 "made with organic" prohibited in agricultural

6 products labeled "organic," ozone, potassium

7 acid tartrate, potassium carbonate, potassium

8 citrate, potassium hydroxide prohibited for

9 use in live peeling of fruits and vegetables

10 except when in used for peeling peaches during

11 the IQF, individually quick frozen, production

12 process; potassium phosphate for use only in

13 agricultural products labeled "made with

14 organic" prohibited in agricultural products

15 labeled "organic," xanthan gum, alginates,

16 ammonium bicarbonate for use only as a

17 leavening agent, ammonium carbonate for use

18 only as a leavening agent, ascorbic acid,

19 calcium citrate and calcium hydroxide.

20 I move for relisting of these

21 items just read off to Sunset.

22 MR. SMILLIE: Second.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 160

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Been moved

2 and seconded by Joe. Moved an seconded to

3 relist the items and the recommendation from

4 the Handling Committee for relisting on

5 605(b).

6 Maker of the motion, do you have

7 any further debate?

8 MR. DeMURI: I don't.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

10 further debate and questions, comments on

11 this?

12 Tracy?

13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: I have

14 a clarification. I misspoke yesterday, so I

15 would like to make the correction and put that

16 on the record.

17 When I present potassium hydroxide

18 I stated that the uses were limited strictly

19 to the peeling of IQF peaches. And what the

20 Listing actually says according to Codex when

21 this was originally put on, is that all food

22 uses are okay unless there are annotations
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 161

1 that limit it. So the limitation actually has

2 to do with the peeling of fruits with the

3 exception of IQF peaches, which are allowed. 

4 Other food uses are also allowed. And I

5 needed that to be clearly stated in the record

6 and then, of course, enforcement, everything

7 else falls under enforcement and outside of

8 our purview.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe, did

10 you have -- Joe?

11 MR. SMILLIE: Yes, I've got a

12 question concerning the List and especially

13 placement on the list. As we know, we've got

14 a number of materials that may not be on the

15 right Lists, which is not a controversial one,

16 but it's come to my attention that glycerin

17 can also be produced, not necessarily by

18 hydrolysis in fats and soil. That it can

19 actually be extracted and certified as organic

20 and put on the marketplace.

21 So I'm just wondering when we put

22 something down like glycerin that can be
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 162

1 produced in two dramatically different ways,

2 how are we going to deal with that in the long

3 run, or do you just want to say --

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: There's a

5 number of ways to deal with that. Number one

6 right now is the Sunset Review Relisting as

7 it's printed.

8 MR. SMILLIE: As it's printed?

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: As the

10 annotation reads.

11 Number two, there's always the

12 petition process to change an annotation.

13 Number three, as we proceed

14 through the classification, the material

15 process a reevaluation of anything that may

16 need to be shifted is part of that road that

17 that group plans to go down.

18 MR. SMILLIE: Thanks.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

20 Katrina, did you have anything

21 else on that?

22 MS. HEINZE: No. I agree with what
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 163

1 you said as cannot be on your --

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. 

3 Steve?

4 MR. DeMURI: I agree with you what

5 you said, Dan. And just to reiterate that, I

6 think it's cleaner if we go ahead and Sunset

7 these as written and then go through a

8 petition process to either move them or change

9 them around on the List.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

11 MS. HEINZE: As Joe said, I just

12 wanted to make sure the original Board review

13 for potassium hydroxide considered all those

14 uses, correct?

15 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: All of

16 what uses?

17 MS. HEINZE: The other three uses?

18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: As

19 standard practice, yes.

20 MS. HEINZE: Thank you.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

22 debate? Ready for the question?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 164

1 For the relisting of 605(b) in

2 Sunset.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

4 Any additional conflicts on this

5 items from all those that were previously

6 disclosed?

7 Steve?

8 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

10 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

12 Dickson?

13 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

15 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

17 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

19 MR. HALL: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

21 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 165

1 MR. MOYER: Yes.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

3 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

5 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe?

9 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

11 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Chair

13 votes yes.

14 One absent. Was there a no? 

15 Fourteen yes. Motion passes.

16 Next item, Mr. Chairman.

17 MR. DeMURI: Okay. The last group

18 are the 606 items, non-organically produced

19 agricultural products allowed as ingredients

20 in or on processed products labeled as

21 "organ." And if I've said it once, I've said

22 it a million times: These are subject to the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 166

1 commercial availability statutes, scrutiny by

2 certifiers, but these would be agricultural

3 nonorganic ingredients that would be

4 sunsetting.

5 So, they are: Casing from process

6 intestines, celery powder, chia, dillweed oil,

7 fish oil stabilized with organic ingredients

8 or only with ingredients on the National Lists

9 205, 605 and 205.606, galangal frozen,

10 gelatin, gums - water extracted only (Arabic,

11 guar, locust bean and carob bean, konjac

12 flour, lemongrass frozen, orange shellac

13 unbleached, pepper chipotle chile, kelp for

14 use only as a thickener and/or dietary

15 supplement, sweet potato starch for bean

16 thread production only, Turkish bay leaves and

17 wakame seaweed.

18 I move for the relisting of these

19 items on 205.606.

20 MR. SMILLIE: Second.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Motion has

22 been and seconded to relist these items as
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 167

1 stated in the recommendation on 606.

2 Joe Smillie?

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Mr. Maker

4 of the motion, do you have any further debate?

5 MR. DeMURI: I do not.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

7 debate, any questions? Jay?

8 MR. FELDMAN: This, I may not have

9 heard this, but you're including in this

10 lemongrass?

11 MR. DeMURI: Frozen.

12 MR. FELDMAN: Frozen? And I guess

13 sweet potato starch, although the whole List

14 is -- you didn't leave any off? Okay. 

15 MR. DeMURI: No. They're all on

16 it.

17 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. 

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

19 discussion? Jeff?

20 MR. MOYER: Yes. Steven, this

21 also has the animal casings on this list as

22 well, right?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 168

1 MR. DeMURI: That was the first

2 one I mentioned.

3 MR. MOYER: Yes. I guess I'm going

4 back to the discussion that we had when we

5 first put that on the List. There was a lot

6 of discussion about that, and I know several

7 of us in the Livestock Committee have been

8 talking about the fact that the livestock

9 industry has grown tremendously since that was

10 first put on the list. And I'm just curious

11 why -- it would seem like there would be

12 enough to make a difference now, and I'm

13 wondering why no one's responded or put up any

14 information. And I don't know, maybe this is

15 mentioned more to the audience.

16 MR. DeMURI: Well, we do have a

17 casings guy in the audience, I believe. Is he

18 here, the one that talked to me yesterday. 

19 No, I guess not. He's out playing somewhere.

20 He mentioned to me yesterday that

21 beef intestines are not suitable for sausage

22 making. They have to use hog intestines and
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 169

1 organic hog availability for intestines for

2 sausage making would not be able to supply the

3 organic sausage market. He had told me that

4 earlier when I had contacted them sometime ago

5 when we were looking at this. But he

6 reiterated that to me yesterday.

7 MR. MOYER: I guess I always feel

8 like we're in the same dilemma that we get

9 into. I mean, there's a certain amount of

10 organic hog intestine, obviously not enough to

11 satisfy the whole market. But it seems like

12 people who buy this stuff, if they can't get

13 it all, they don't want any. So now that we

14 get -- it just doesn't seem to be working the

15 way the system --

16 MR. DeMURI: The way our

17 testimonies do?

18 MR. MOYER: Yes. The way the

19 system's designed, maybe Joe.

20 MR. SMILLIE: There's probably

21 enough, but they all don't go to the same

22 slaughter house. It's a question of how much
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 170

1 processing goes on at the slaughterhouse and

2 how they have to be certified as an organic

3 slaughterhouse, have segregation. So the

4 potential to segregate hog intestine is there,

5 but the volume's not, as I understand it. And

6 the petitioner, as I understand it, at least

7 one of the petitioners was Organic Prairie,

8 not Organic Valley, but the meat division of

9 crop cooperative. And that petitioner is

10 totally, you know I would expect industry

11 being on top of the availability of organic

12 when that volume reaches a point that the

13 process could occur.

14 So, I'd fully expect once we hit

15 that number that there will be a petition

16 because it's in the interest of the organic

17 industry to do so, to make use of their

18 currently non-saleable intestines.

19 MR. FELDMAN: Well, I guess my

20 question is how do we -- and we probably can't

21 answer it here. Is how do we encourage the

22 industry to buy what's there before they go
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 171

1 somewhere -- I mean, they want it all at one

2 place, this one-stop shopping. I know that to

3 me -- but it's frustrating from my perspective

4 when I'm looking at I know there's organic

5 hogs out there and they are growing, but that

6 segment doesn't move -- hopefully in the

7 future it will.

8 MR. SMILLIE: Well, again what

9 Steve said for the millionth time, you know

10 it's like commercial availability. The

11 certifier has to be on top of making sure that

12 every year when they use -- and that's one of

13 the things that I think was asked for, one of

14 the public, is you know a database where 606

15 items that are requested are posted so that we

16 get a more transparent database of how many

17 606 items are being granted. You know, so we

18 get a good handle on that and what's

19 available.

20 I think it is definitely in the

21 financial interests of the organic hog

22 producers to get this off the List once
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 172

1 they've got their volume. But perhaps Wendy

2 could add more detail to that.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

4 MS. FULWIDER: I'm sorry, I

5 haven't worked that much on that side of it.

6 MR. SMILLIE: But when we go

7 around again, I'm sure we'll have this.

8 MS. FULWIDER: I'll make a point

9 of knowing.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

11 MR. FELDMAN: Do we as a Board

12 have a good sense of how well that system is

13 working, Joe? in terms of certifiers directing

14 the organic production side toward that

15 element of the community that is producing

16 organic products on the 606 List?

17 MS. FULWIDER: You know, it's not

18 perfect but I think it's good. I mean, the

19 ACA, the Accredited Certification Association,

20 has got a 606 List and they are making that

21 known to their members and to other people. 

22 So I think the certifiers are actively
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 173

1 reaching out to the community.

2 And again, one of the best ways,

3 and I don't want to get into all of our

4 secrets, but enforcement, you know competition

5 is a great enforcer. And if you are using

6 something organic and your competition is

7 sourcing conventional, you have a financial

8 interest into making that known to certifiers

9 and to the Program. 

10 And so through the complaint

11 process, through again the active outreach of

12 ACA on the 606 List. But competitors are

13 driving that, Jay.

14 And I think it functions pretty

15 well. We've seen a lot of things. So we saw

16 it, and we just went through it. You missed

17 the wonderful lessons and the debates, which

18 hopefully we won't return to, but we had some

19 really classic examples of some of the

20 industry using organic lecithin and some of

21 them not using it. And that drove us to

22 remove lecithin from the thing.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 174

1 So it's not perfect, but I think

2 it is working. I think that the commercial

3 availability rules are getting better and

4 better understood. And as we are now in the

5 age of enforcement, I think that it will only

6 improve.

7 I would also like to see that

8 database for all the -- I don't want to call

9 them exceptions because that's the wrong word. 

10 But for all the 606 conventional materials

11 that are allowed be posted so it becomes even

12 more transparent.

13 MR. McEVOY: From the Program's

14 perspective, I would say that ACAs and

15 certified operations are doing a great job at

16 using organic seeds and using organic when

17 available. And ACAs are doing a great job at

18 doing their best to be consistent in terms of

19 how they evaluate the firm's efforts around

20 commercial availability. There's certainly

21 room for improvement. We're planning on

22 clarifying requirements for certifiers to
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 175

1 determine commercial availability on seeds to

2 implement the NOSB recommendations in draft

3 guidance this summer. But I think it's a

4 challenging area to be consistent through all

5 the certifiers and all the certified

6 operations worldwide. But I think that there

7 are very good efforts going on and also room

8 for improvement.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

10 Further discussion? 

11 Yes, Steve, I would have totally

12 been behind dropping the casings from the List

13 today. I very much appreciate your statement

14 on the need for the hog casings. I don't

15 think that there's any question that this is

16 probably the least mature of all the major

17 livestock industries that we have developing

18 an organic. I would just ask you to very much

19 keep track of the ANPR Notice of Public

20 Comment and see if there's much at all there,

21 new information of any significance, to

22 justify reviewing this one.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 176

1 MR. SMILLIE: Yes. As a Committee

2 we will be looking at all public comments that

3 come in between now and May 25th on all these

4 items that we've voted on today. So we'll

5 keep an eye on that.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

7 Further debate? Ready for the

8 question? 

9 Conflicts? Seeing none.

10 Katrina?

11 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

13 Dickson?

14 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

16 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

18 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

20 MR. HALL: Yes.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

22 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 177

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

2 MR. MOYER: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

4 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

6 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe 

10 Smillie?

11 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

13 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

15 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Chair

17 votes yes.

18 One absent, zero no, 14 yes. 

19 Motion passes.

20 Okay. Does that complete your

21 work, Mr. Chairman?

22 MR. DeMURI: We are done.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 178

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. We

2 are slightly ahead of schedule. We have a

3 little bit of work that we have to do within

4 one Committee before we bring that information

5 up for a final vote. And so we're going to

6 slightly change and take our break now. We're

7 slightly ahead. Not bad. Slightly ahead.

8 So let's go 11:25 to bring it back

9 to order.

10 Lunch will be when we fit in,

11 closer to 12:30 after the meals arrive.

12 (Whereupon, the above-entitled

13 matter went off the record at 11:10 a.m. and

14 resumed at 11:25 a.m.)

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

16 Thank you.

17 We had a slight extended break. 

18 We are way ahead of schedule and we had plans

19 of things that we need to do as Board business

20 relevant to some of these recommendations at

21 the break. So as far ahead in the schedule we

22 are, we're going to be moving some people so
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 179

1 that they were missing the breaks that we were

2 planning to work on those information. So

3 that was the cause for coming back a little

4 bit late.

5 Let's see, we have one bit of

6 business to backtrack on. Annette? I mean

7 Wendy.

8 Sorry Annette.

9 I was going to ask for a ChapStick

10 demonstration, but we'll just move on with

11 Wendy.

12 MS. FULWIDER: Yes. I need to

13 change my vote on the 606 to an abstain

14 because of connection to Organic Prairie. I

15 was unaware of their petition.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Recused. 

17 I think the fact that you were unaware that

18 the company that you fairly recently started

19 working for only the last couple of years was

20 the petitioner of this substance reveals how

21 close you are to it and how much it effects

22 your life. We probably would not have
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 180

1 requested that, but because of the nature of

2 the way this has folded out, we appreciate

3 your voluntary action on that matter.

4 MR. SMILLIE: Five Our Fathers and

5 two Hail Mary's.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: You've

7 just brought religion into government, Joe.

8 Okay. We now have that vote on

9 606 as zero no, 13 yes, one absent and one

10 recusal. 

11 We are now moving on to something

12 that is on the agenda 2:00, folks. We are

13 doing amazingly well. Yes, we do have to go

14 back on methionine. But we can make it feel

15 like we're ahead. Okay. 

16 The Joint Materials and Handling

17 Committee, Katrina Chairperson.

18 MS. HEINZE: Thank you, Mr.

19 Chairman.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: One

21 second. This is actually a joint Committee.

22 It actually has Co-Chairs. Steve is also the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 181

1 Chairman on this. But through this

2 classification process issues, Katrina is

3 generally. But it does actually have two

4 Chairs. I don't want to shortchange Steve's

5 participation, addition and level of authority

6 with that Committee.

7 MS. HEINZE: Thank you.

8 I've been informed that sometimes

9 I'm a little bit quiet. So if that's the case

10 if someone on the Board could just wave at me

11 and I will reposition my microphone.

12 Okay. I'm not going to go through

13 everything that I summarized yesterday, but

14 obviously we'd be happy to have discussion on

15 that.

16 What I did want to do is update

17 the Board on updates to the document that we

18 noted on this morning. So, Valerie, if you

19 could scroll down to section IV, the Rule

20 Change.

21 So yesterday there was some

22 discussion about whether the changes that we
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 182

1 recommended in November and tweaking with this

2 addendum, whether they could be done through

3 a guidance document or whether rule change was

4 required. There was some preference by some

5 on the Board that if we could do it through

6 guidance, that would be more flexible and

7 certainly more timely.

8 So working with the Program, we've

9 approved a change to this Rule Change

10 language. So now this document is coming out

11 of Committee with nine yes votes, two no

12 votes, no absent.

13 Our previous document said that we

14 asked the NOP to begin the process of rule

15 change and know that they would prioritize it

16 as appropriate. The new language says: "In

17 our November recommendation we asked the NOP

18 to begin the process for rule change when they

19 received recommendation from the NOSB." With

20 this addendum we are instead asking the NOP to

21 begin the process of reviewing this

22 recommendation for the purpose of facilitating
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 183

1 a relevant rule change and/or developing the

2 industry guidance. Where possible we would

3 like this recommendation to be implemented in

4 industry guidance for some period of time

5 prior to rule change.

6 The NOSB asks that the NOP

7 provides feedback to the NOSB regarding its

8 review and works collaboratively with its

9 numbers to address any areas of concern. We

10 asked the NOP to prioritize the review of in

11 response to this recommendation so that

12 increased consistency and classification of

13 materials can be implemented quickly.

14 So in conversations with Arthur,

15 really the intent, if this addendum passes, is

16 if they will take this and our November

17 recommendation, they will take it back for

18 review, identify any areas of regulatory

19 concern, identify where there may be a need

20 for more immediate rule change and then work

21 with us as we develop the guidance document.

22 So it will really be a
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 184

1 collaborative process to bring the changes

2 that we recommended into place for the

3 industry. They understand that our preference

4 would be the guidance document because of the

5 flexibility that that allows us. So this

6 language, I think, captures that.

7 Then I just wanted to highlight a

8 couple of other things in the addendum so

9 you're fully aware of what you're voting on.

10 Valerie, on section III right

11 above this. the last sentence. There you go.

12 I just wanted to highlight for

13 everyone that we have requested that the NOP

14 continue to be aware of the public and NOSB's

15 desire to explore this topic, this topic being

16 the applicability of commercial availability

17 to 605.

18 So then finally, Valerie, if you

19 could just look at the chemical change

20 definition, which is above. There you go. 

21 Oh, unfortunately it's on 2 pages. Maybe put

22 in some spaces or something so it ends up. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 185

1 Bravo. Okay. 

2 So everything I just mentioned is

3 really procedural, how we want to go forward. 

4 This is really the key change that you'll be

5 voting on.

6 So in November the Board passed a

7 definition of chemical change which says "An

8 occurrence whereby the identity of a substance

9 is modified, such that the resulting substance

10 possesses a different distinct identity (see

11 related definition of "substance").

12 And you know just to summarize,

13 there's considerable public comment that that

14 went too far with regards to agricultural

15 products. So after all the debate in public

16 comment that I summarized yesterday, the Joint

17 Committee is recommending the addition of the

18 underlined language which reads: "Allowed

19 processing, as defined in ^U205.2 of

20 agricultural products using materials allowed

21 on the applicable section of the National

22 List, that is: ^U205.601 for crops, ^U205.603
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 186

1 for livestock and ^U205.606 for handling does

2 not result in chemical change as it applies to

3 classification of materials." 

4 So with that, I move that the

5 Board accepts this document as an amendment to

6 the November recommendation.

7 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Second.

8 MR. SMILLIE: Second.

9 MS. HEINZE: Questions,

10 discussion?

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

12 Questions and discussion? Properly been moved

13 and seconded of this document from the Joint

14 Materials and Handling Committee. That was

15 Katrina's motion and Tracy's second.

16 Madam Maker of the motion, do you

17 have any further discussion?

18 MS. HEINZE: No.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

20 debate? Jay?

21 MR. FELDMAN: I've already told

22 you this, Katrina. Thank you for all your
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 187

1 work on this. It's been an extraordinary

2 effort. Very fair, open. And you've really

3 sought out everybody's opinion in putting this

4 stuff together. But, so none of this is a

5 surprise to you and I just want to get this

6 out there so people are clear on where I'm

7 coming from on this.

8 This is a scenario I see, and I

9 don't want to mischaracterize it. But I hope

10 we have agreement on what's happening here

11 from a practical standpoint. We're approving

12 a synthetic as part of our listing process

13 that we're approving their list, and then we

14 use that synthetic to make another material

15 that we then call non-synthetic. And that's

16 the process we're engaged in here.

17 I understand what part of the

18 community wants to do that. I think it at the

19 end of the day is going to be a problem for

20 the Board and the organic community. I would

21 prefer if we could have taken an approach that

22 would have recognized its synthetic nature of
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 188

1 the material we've approved or are considering

2 and recognize, as we have to date, that these

3 materials are necessary, essential and

4 important to organic under the guidelines that

5 we have embraced.

6 And so I think we're at a

7 crossroads that we're not wanting to put more

8 synthetics on the List wanting to be able to

9 point to materials as being non-synthetic even

10 though they may have synthetic components to

11 them. And hat is not the road that we should

12 follow I don't believe at this time.

13 Now as you know, Katrina, part of

14 my concern as well as the underlying document

15 the past November on the issue and the

16 challenge of defining significant versus

17 insignificant. And I think having been then -

18 --yes I'll refer to it at as another rabbit

19 hole but I think I should have characterized

20 it as a rat hole. Having been down that rat

21 hole on numerous pesticides on the

22 conventional side as to what is an allowable
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 189

1 level that represents a reasonable exposure or

2 a reasonable certainty of no harm, or de

3 minimis risk, there are never really good

4 answers.

5 So it is my hope that at some

6 point we can return to the statute here and

7 really recognize that we are about process, we

8 are governed by a process-driven law and we

9 should seek to identify those materials that

10 we believe are necessary and essential to that

11 process, and live up, own them, embrace them,

12 explain to the public why we think they're

13 necessary and essential. And then take

14 whatever heat comes from that process. But

15 recognize that to do otherwise takes us into

16 a realm of exposure patterns, sensitivities

17 among the consuming public, ecological fate

18 issues, health outcomes around issues around

19 endocrine disrupting chemicals for which we

20 have not yet established an acceptable level

21 of exposure and for which we're seeing no

22 longer classical toxicology having impact on
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 190

1 significance, such as dose makes the poison. 

2 And a dose response code that is linear.

3 We're now seeing inverted use

4 where we see nonlinear exposure responses to

5 synthetic chemicals. You've heard about the

6 hermaphroditic frogs, you've heard about the

7 impacts at very low levels of exposures to

8 synthetic materials for which we have no

9 testing.

10 Now, I'm not saying that is

11 relevant or irrelevant to the kinds of low

12 level exposure to synthetics we're talking in

13 the context of this effort. But we just don't

14 know and we want to precautionary. So we want

15 to ensure that when we do allow synthetic, we

16 have subjected it to the most thorough review

17 even at minuscule and so called insignificant

18 levels.

19 And I know everybody wants to do

20 that and balance that against what we view as

21 a burdensome process. And I don't think we've

22 yet found that balance in this definition. I
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 191

1 think we're avoiding something.

2 And last point. We're looking to

3 organic to be leading the curve on these sorts

4 of issues. Leading the curve rather than 

5 pointing to definitions in FDA and EPA and

6 other institutions that have expressly taken

7 a different viewpoint this question of process

8 driven. They are risk-mitigation driven. It's

9 a totally different realm. And to point to

10 those statutes and to those other venues

11 really does a disservice to those who have

12 embraced the organic concept.

13 Again, a tremendous effort. 

14 Really, I mean that sincerely and I think that

15 some day we'll find the balance here. But I

16 don't think this is it. Thank you.

17 MS. HEINZE: Thank you. I

18 certainly do respect your opinion. Although,

19 I respectfully disagree with one point that

20 you made, which is that we are at a

21 crossroads.

22 We very studiously in our November
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 192

1 recommendation worked to classify materials as

2 they have traditionally and historically been

3 classified by previous Boards and by our

4 certifiers. So the definition that we passed

5 in November effects very, very few materials

6 with regards to how their classified.

7 So I do not believe this is a

8 crossroads for organic, or changes how we've

9 historically behaved. That was the November

10 recommendation.

11 So what I want to emphasize is we

12 are not voting on the first sentence. All we

13 are voting is the second sentence which

14 corrects an intended consequence that our

15 November vote had with regards to

16 classification of very large numbers of

17 agricultural products. 

18 So just for everyone else. I

19 know, Jay, that that won't change how you're

20 feeling about it. But I just want to be clear

21 that folks know what they're voting on. We're

22 not voting on November.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 193

1 The other thing is, I think your

2 comments on significant and insignificant are

3 very valuable and are going to be critical to

4 our discussions on that topic as we write up

5 that document. And I'm very grateful to have

6 your expertise on that. It will be a

7 challenge. I know we've gotten a lot of

8 public comment, but that is work still ahead

9 of us, and also not being voted on today.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe?

11 MR. SMILLIE: Well, there's two

12 issues we can talk about. We can talk about

13 this document and the specifics of this

14 document, or we can color that discussion with

15 our philosophical differences. And some of

16 the comments you made, Jay, are putting this

17 document in the context of following the path

18 of the conventional industry. I don't believe

19 that's accurate.

20 I believe that we are process21 driven, and that's one of our beauties. And

22 I believe we are finding the balance. I think
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 194

1 that this document is actually living proof of

2 the search for that balance. 

3 And I also think that it's a

4 philosophical difference that's been playing

5 out for the last -- well, since I can

6 remember. And it's that same, we keep coming

7 to the same point. Is the point to change

8 agricultural in the United States to make

9 organic profitable so that we can get farmers

10 to convert or is the point to create the

11 purest food possible? And we always are

12 trying to find the difference between those

13 two.

14 I believe that this Board, the

15 entire history of this Board has been

16 searching for, you know, the Buddhist middle

17 way on this. And it's an ongoing exercise.

18 It's never going to end. And I believe that

19 this document is a process-driven document

20 where as what you would be proposing would be

21 the endless petition process for anything that

22 could possibly be considered synthetic --
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 195

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I think

2 the impact of what he's proposing would be

3 subject to how it was applied for this

4 Committee. I think that would be way down the

5 road. I'd like to kind of -- let's see if we

6 can bring the discussion back specifically to

7 this document.

8 MR. SMILLIE: I started my remarks

9 by saying we can go down two roads on this

10 discussion. And Katrina stuck to the

11 document. I just want to point out that Jay

12 made it into a bigger context, and I'm simply

13 not -- I respectfully retreat back to the

14 specific comments that relate to the document.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We've

16 allowed Jay's --

17 MR. SMILLIE: That's right,

18 soapbox.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We've

20 allowed Jay's philosophy, we've allowed Joe's

21 counter-philosophy. Both of those would have

22 been more appropriate yesterday in the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 196

1 Committee discussion. Today we are looking at

2 the discussion for any amendments and changes

3 to this document as it has been presented by

4 the Joint Committee and the vote by the Board

5 on that document.

6 MR. SMILLIE: I concur.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

8 further statements, questions relevant to this

9 document and its implications, application not

10 to the alternatives? John?

11 MR. FOSTER: So this is a very

12 complicated situation. And I've admired the

13 previous work on it tremendous. A lot of ins,

14 a lot of outs, a lot of what have yous.

15 At the risk of clouding Katrina's

16 very clear statement, my point is my hat the

17 changes here don't exist in isolation. They

18 exist in a context that has pretty firm

19 footing in the industry, I think, and is

20 relatively noncontroversial.

21 I think the language here does two

22 things. One, it makes our definition
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 197

1 consistent across multiple applications. And

2 I think that's good because it's based in what

3 exists in reality and is independent really

4 from philosophical opinion, I believe.

5 It's a little bit counter to other

6 comment. I think we're always at a crossroads

7 everyday. And so the fact that we might here

8 today is no different than any other day. I

9 think everyday is a crossroads in a relatively

10 young industry.

11 I'll leave it there. Thanks.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

13 MR. FLAMM: Question. Katrina,

14 could you for my benefit simply say what

15 problem this addition is intended to solve

16 that the original definition created, please?

17 MS. HEINZE: It's simple as I used

18 the example that I used yesterday, which is

19 that if you take a wheat kernel and you toast

20 it under the definition of chemical change as

21 it stands from November, that wheat kernel

22 once toasted is now synthetic. That's a very
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 198

1 simplistic example, and I get that. There are

2 a myriad of other agricultural products that

3 we have a similar effect. And it's maybe less

4 simplistic is any 95 percent certified organic

5 product that has as an ingredient a 605(b)

6 item and is nixed could be a certified organic

7 synthetic.

8 You could take two agricultural

9 imports and mix them together and have

10 chemical, and that's chemical change. And

11 that would be synthetic. And that was not our

12 intention.

13 And we heard very clearly from our

14 public that they thought that was way too far

15 and very inconsistent with how we have the

16 classified the materials in the past.

17 MR. FLAMM: I have had --

18 MS. HEINZE: Hold on just a

19 second. Does that answer your question,

20 Barry?

21 MR. FLAMM: What effect does it

22 have on crops in the field? There's where
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 199

1 I'm--

2 MS. HEINZE: I am, as everyone in

3 this room knows, not a crops person. And I

4 haven't asked him to do this, but I'm

5 wondering, John, would you be able to address

6 that better than I can?

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Or the

8 Corps Committee, Tina or Jeff, or anyone.

9 MS. HEINZE: I think I can do this

10 one, John, if you're not comfortable.

11 MR. FOSTER: No, I'm fine. I just

12 wanted Dan to okay it.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I think we

14 should send it to the Crops Committee first. 

15 We'll come to you if they're not responding.

16 The question is the impact of this

17 Listing, this potential amendment on crops in

18 the fields? Tina?

19 SECRETARY ELLOR: It would have an

20 impact on inputs, if I have that right. It

21 would have a impact on inputs to crops on the

22 field. Not directly to the crops themselves,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 200

1 but to the inputs on the crops. Is that okay?

2 MR. FLAMM: But what? 

3 MS. HEINZE: I guess what I would

4 add, but only for synthetics that have been

5 reviewed by this Board as allowed for crops. 

6 So it's not like you could use a 605 input. It

7 would only be crops inputs.

8 MR. FLAMM: But does it make a

9 difference? I guess this change does it make

10 a difference to the inputs to crops in the

11 field on how -

12 SECRETARY ELLOR: It would have an

13 impact in that in the determination of what's

14 applied to crops. So in the determination of

15 whether something is synthetic or not

16 synthetic according to whether a chemical

17 change has or has not taken place. And I

18 guess -- you know, it's just in determining

19 what's synthetic and not synthetic to be

20 applied to crops, that's where it would have

21 an impact.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 201

1 MS. HEINZE: Although I am unaware

2 in public comment of an example that it would

3 apply to. But again, I'm not a crops expert.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

5 This is the Chair taking their term.

6 In the November document one of

7 the -- and we all come from our -- we're

8 victimized by our experience and a big part of

9 my experience is livestock.

10 In the November document one of

11 the things we did was eliminate the step for

12 agricultural products to become nonsynthetic

13 before becoming synthetic.

14 In the definition that we had at

15 that time it was viewed that the mechanism of

16 that change was too liberal and that it would

17 create too many synthetics. We have now

18 changed that to decrease the number of

19 synthetics created in this step.

20 Now processing in 205(2) cooking,

21 baking, curing, heating, drying, mixing,

22 grinding, churning, separator, extracting,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 202

1 slaughtering, cutting, fermenting, distilling,

2 preserving, dehydrating, freezing, chilling or

3 otherwise manufacturing blah, blah, blah. 

4 Okay.

5 If you're taking out a product and

6 you use an allowed synthetic on 601 in crops,

7 603 in livestock, 605/606 in handling it would

8 not create a synthetic. That's a lot of

9 stuff. We've really cut back on the number of

10 things that are becoming synthetic now.

11 Have we gone too far the other

12 way?

13 MS. HEINZE: My understanding is

14 that this definition much more -- I don't have

15 the right verb. Much better matches the

16 current practice. So it is from a principle

17 that has guided our work for the last two

18 years on this, because that we did not want to

19 cause the mass reclassification of materials.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: 

21 Absolutely.

22 MS. HEINZE: We were trying to
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 203

1 come up with definitions that matched the

2 current matched the current practice in the

3 industry to aid in consistency. We're not

4 trying to change, and have no intention of

5 changing how people are doing it. It's just

6 about consistency.

7 So my belief and the majority of

8 the Committee's belief is that this does a

9 better job of that.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

11 Jay?

12 MR. FELDMAN: I was trying to

13 address Barry's issue. You know, first of

14 all, I think I have to agree with the comments

15 that we got that most of our discussion was

16 processing-centric. So in that context, where

17 we're talking about materials that essentially

18 become ingredients in the processing world.

19 And if those materials are developed with an

20 agricultural material and a nonsynthetic

21 material, nonagricultural material, in our

22 view as we discussed it in the Committee, in
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 204

1 our view that if you applied to normal

2 practices of heating, baking, churning all

3 those things Dan mentioned in the definition,

4 that you wouldn't by definition end up with a

5 synthetic product.

6 The problem was when you say that

7 an organic product for which we have allowed,

8 this is an agricultural commodity, say, or it

9 could even be an allowed synthetic under

10 605(b), but once you take that allowed

11 synthetic material and mix it with all that

12 other nonsynthetic stuff that we understand to

13 be nonsynthetic by virtue of the fact that we

14 call it an agricultural commodity or we call

15 it a nonsynthetic nonagricultural commodity;

16 that when you mix in that admittedly

17 acceptable synthetic material that we have

18 approved, that somehow we can ignore the fact

19 that that ingredient we're creating, not that

20 overall product. I'm not talking about calling

21 macaroni and cheese produced with grain

22 products, we're not calling that a synthetic
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 205

1 product. We're calling that a processed food

2 that it contains different ingredients.

3 We're talking about creating a

4 material. Creating an ingredient essentially

5 by putting in some agreed upon 605(b)

6 synthetic and not calling that a synthetic

7 ingredient. It's not logical.

8 And I understand why we want to do

9 that because we've approved that ingredient.

10 We believe it's not harmful. We believe it's

11 acceptable. And I concur with all that. But we

12 can't logically not call it synthetic because

13 we have done something to that product, either

14 by adding it or by virtue of changing some

15 chemical bonds; we've done something to that

16 ingredient that now makes it synthetic.

17 I mean, I don't know how much

18 that's going to change the list. I guess you

19 have a better feel for that than I do. But I

20 think that we have to, again, own up to what's

21 happening here and then just deal with the

22 consequences.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 206

1 MS. HEINZE: In many cases --

2 actually in probably most cases that would be

3 certified organic ingredient. So the objection

4 that the public had was to certified organic

5 synthetic.

6 MR. FELDMAN: I'm sorry. Say that

7 again. A certified --

8 MS. HEINZE: Certified organic

9 corn and I -- this is one that Katrina's made

10 up. And I -- okay, how about this? This is

11 relevant to this week.

12 I take my certified organic grapes

13 and I add sulphur dioxide to them, and I have

14 certified made with organic grape synthetic

15 wine.

16 MR. FELDMAN: No. No. What you

17 have if you create an ingredient, you're

18 creating a material. We're not talking about

19 a product, we're talking about a material that

20 would be added to wine, is that material, the

21 sulfites synthetic. The product can still be

22 based on the percentage 95/6, 70/30 can still
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 207

1 be classified as an organic product that has

2 a synthetic ingredient.

3 MS. HEINZE: And in fact last

4 November going into our deliberations the

5 Committee agreed with you.

6 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

7 MS. HEINZE: Which is why we

8 didn't have the second sentence.

9 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

10 MS. HEINZE: The public disagreed.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John.

12 MR. FOSTER: I haven't been

13 successful in making my point, apparently,

14 that I think this does the opposite. I think

15 this makes it more consistent.

16 We have the one example I've used

17 before is bread. We recognize bread is not

18 synthetic, even though we've added synthetics

19 to it and we've baked it, we all accept, and

20 I've embarrassed myself more than once making

21 the point that wine is wine even those it has

22 sulphur dioxide; bread is bread even though it
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 208

1 has synthetics in it, leavening agents in it.

2 And my hope was that this made

3 things, the definition of what is synthetic or

4 not, more consistent across ingredients and

5 inputs. If at a later time, this is what I

6 was trying to get at with the difference

7 between definitions and sensibilities. If our

8 sensibilities are such that we want to change

9 what's allowed in organic, that's one thing. 

10 But I think what this does is make the

11 determination about what's synthetic more

12 consistent. And I think more consistent with

13 what we all think of right now with what's

14 okay to put in our mouths; wines, bread, for

15 example, cheese, many, many things. We

16 recognize those things as being nonconsistent.

17 And if we discovered that wine was a fantastic

18 fungal control agent or better fertilizer

19 which would make a lot of people in this room

20 rally happy, I think, that wine would be

21 allowed as a fertilizer as is because it's

22 non-synthetic.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 209

1 So my point is -- my thought is

2 that we already do this. We've already said

3 if there's a synthetic on the National List

4 and we take an egg product, add something on

5 the list, use it if approved practices as

6 defined in 205(2) that product is not

7 synthetic. And that is a definition -- that's

8 the difference between the definition versus

9 the allowability.

10 So I think I see this as just kind

11 of codifying that and allowing wine to be used

12 as a fertilizer if we find it works. And I

13 would be thrilled with that, actually.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I think we

15 have beaten this section of this pretty well. 

16 I would certainly if there's any new

17 consideration from this part of it, but there

18 are some other issues in the document that I

19 would like us to get to if there is any

20 discussion on.

21 MS. HEINZE: Can I just wrap up?

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 210

1 MS. HEINZE: I appreciate, Jay,

2 Berry you guys asking the questions and

3 helping bring the conversations we've had for

4 two years to light.

5 It is my personal opinion that

6 this is the very best that we can do at this

7 point and that industry asked us 3« years ago

8 to do something, and our time has come. And

9 it is time to give this to the Program, give

10 them a chance to chew on it, to work with us

11 and to get this out there to industry to use.

12 And, like someone so elegantly

13 said, the matter of classification for the

14 National Organic Program will never really be

15 done, it just needs to be done right now.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

17 debate any other of the other issues in the

18 document?

19 MR. FELDMAN: Can I just ask one

20 more question of you, Katrina? You know, in

21 the crops community we've been dealing a lot

22 with extraction, extraction of elements with
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 211

1 the synthetic process. Can you envision a day

2 when where we're be sitting in the Crops

3 Committee and will be told that you've got an

4 agricultural product all natural, we've

5 extracted the portion of that that we want. 

6 You know, it could even be an enzyme, a

7 bacteria or whatever it is through some

8 process. It has not left any residues in the

9 final product, and therefore we want you to

10 classify this as a nonsynthetic. Could you

11 envision that day? Would it change what we're

12 doing in our Committee work presently? And

13 how do we control that down the road, or do we

14 need to?

15 MS. HEINZE: It looks like, Tina,

16 do you have a comment on that?

17 SECRETARY ELLOR: We do that now. 

18 There's lot of extracts used as botanical

19 controls, essential oils; those things are

20 extracted.

21 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

22 SECRETARY ELLOR: So I think we do
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 212

1 that now.

2 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

3 SECRETARY ELLOR: Right.

4 MR. FELDMAN: So I'm asking what

5 the effect of this classification would be

6 where we're told you can extract, chelate,

7 whatever you do and not result in it being a

8 significant residue or having a synthetic

9 component either because that is on the

10 acceptable List as an acceptable synthetic or

11 somehow it's determined that the residues

12 remaining are de minimis or insignificant?

13 MS. HEINZE: So I understand your

14 question, the addition of this sentence I do

15 believe, I'll one of the Committee members

16 speak if they want, doesn't change that. It's

17 the first sentence.

18 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. 

19 MS. HEINZE: So in an extraction

20 if you use -- because this happens today. 

21 Botanical pesticides are extracted with

22 hexana, as I understand.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 213

1 MR. FELDMAN: Right. Yes.

2 MS. HEINZE: There is no chemical

3 change. There's no change in identity. That

4 first sentence. And there is, as currently

5 understood, no significant residue of the

6 hexane. Adding this sentence so what's being

7 voted on today is not affected, or does not

8 affect that.

9 MR. FELDMAN: So I'm referring to

10 the November decision. Okay. 

11 MS. HEINZE: Right. Yes.

12 MR. FELDMAN: Thank you.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Also, Jay,

14 there's a place for everything on Handling. 

15 There's essentially a place for everything in

16 crops. The biggest impact on this is on

17 livestock feed of what has changed. I mean,

18 I don't want to get into this whole

19 discussion.

20 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We've had

22 it. But an agricultural product is it changed
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 214

1 to a nonsynthetic? Well, we don't do that

2 anymore. Does it go all the way to synthetic? 

3 Then it would need to be on the list. If it

4 doesn't go all the way to synthetic, it's

5 required by statute or by the regulation that

6 it had to be organic. And that is the place

7 where this whole discussion I believe has the

8 biggest impact. Because everywhere else,

9 wherever it falls, there's a place to put it. 

10 If it falls a certain place on the

11 livestock side and it's something that goes in

12 the cow's mouth, there's no place to put it

13 depending on where it falls.

14 MS. HEINZE: And then if you

15 remember yesterday I asked the Livestock

16 Committee to look at that in more detail --

17 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

18 MS. HEINZE: -- and see if they

19 wanted to make recommendation to address

20 that.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Ready for

22 the question? All right. On the motion to
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 215

1 accept the recommendation from the Joint

2 Materials and Handling Committee as presented.

3 Joe?

4 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

6 MR. FLAMM: I hope you're right. 

7 I vote yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

9 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Was that

11 yes?

12 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

14 Jennifer?

15 MR. HALL: No.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

17 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

19 MR. MOYER: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

21 MR. FELDMAN: No.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 216

1 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe 

5 Smillie?

6 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John 

8 Foster?

9 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

11 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

13 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No

15 conflicts on this. This is a classification. 

16 Everybody lives and dies on this. Nobody's

17 getting out of this one. 

18 On the entire document as it was

19 done yesterday for the Chair.

20 One absent, two no's, 13 yes. 

21 Motion passes.

22 MR. MOYER: Twelve and two.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 217

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Sorry. 

2 Okay. 

3 Does that conclude the work of --

4 MS. HEINZE: It does. I am very

5 grateful for such a fabulous discussion. I

6 think future Boards will benefit from having

7 all that in the transcript, and I really

8 appreciate it.

9 So thank you.

10 That concludes the work of the

11 Joint Materials and Handling Committee.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Somehow

13 I've lost my pages here.

14 Okay. We're at 12:15. We have

15 one CAC. Do we have a lunch in. Lunch is in? 

16 Have the lunches arrived? We're not sure.

17 We're going to go with the CAC. 

18 We already said.

19 Go, Joe.

20 MR. SMILLIE: We're not ready?

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: You're not

22 ready?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 218

1 MR. SMILLIE: Well, I'm ready.

2 The document being presented is

3 Guidelines for the Use of Inert Atmospheric

4 Gases With Products Labeled and Sold As 100%

5 Organic.

6 Just a couple of things. In

7 struggling to find the FDA information on

8 this, it isn't under packaging aids, although

9 it is referred to as packaging aids in the FDA

10 CFR. It's under -- oh, gee. I forgot it

11 again. Steve? Oxygen displacement. So that's

12 where the information on the use of these

13 materials as approved by FDA can be found. 

14 Again, it's one of the FDA rabbit holes. Not

15 that it affects things, but that information

16 is there on how the FDA considers it.

17 So we're not changing the document

18 whatsoever. The changes that were made

19 yesterday stay the same, but the backup

20 information is available.

21 I'd like to move that the NOSB

22 accept the document, Guidelines for the Use of
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 219

1 Inert Atmospheric Gases With Products Labeled

2 and Sold As 100% Organic

3 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: I

4 second.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: It's been

6 made and seconded to accept the recommendation

7 from the CAC on 100% label with use of inert

8 atmospheric gas.

9 Maker of the motion, do you have

10 any further debate on this?

11 MR. SMILLIE: Nope.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any other

13 debate, comments or questions?

14 I have one clarification that I'd

15 like to ask. Does the use of the term being

16 "oxygen displacement" change the potential

17 answer that we've discussed yesterday with the

18 carrot juice?

19 MR. SMILLIE: Thank you. I

20 believe it does. I believe it does. Because,

21 again, it's complicated. Our recommendation

22 is to regard it as a packaging aid, not a
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 220

1 processing aid; that stays as our

2 recommendation. But the fact that the FDA

3 calls it is effect is not as a packaging aid,

4 it's effect is oxygen displacement would lead

5 me to change the opinion that I gave on the

6 spur of the moment to Steve that during the

7 processing of the carrot juice at an

8 intermediate period, this inert gas was used

9 as oxygen displacement would take it out, once

10 again, from the processing equation and hence,

11 I think it would be allowed.

12 Again, to be fair to the negative

13 commentator, this does add a layer -- pun

14 intended -- of complexity to the decision

15 making process. But nonetheless, I would

16 change my opinion I gave Steve yesterday based

17 on the information data in FDA.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: And I

19 think it's always important to remember that

20 the Program holds final authority on

21 interpretation. But it is important that with

22 the proper language and the intent of this
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 221

1 Board being on the public record, I felt that

2 that was something I wanted to add.

3 MR. SMILLIE: I thank you for

4 that. I think you that, Mr. Chair.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

6 MR. FOSTER: I'm quite confident

7 that ACAs would consider this a processing aid

8 if it was used in the application that Steve

9 brought up yesterday. It fits the definition

10 quite well. I mean, I don't know how a

11 certifier could call it anything other than a

12 processing aid in the context that Steve

13 brought it up.

14 MR. SMILLIE: But not in the

15 context of the flush at the end of processing.

16 MR. FOSTER: Okay. Regardless. I

17 mean, I'm as you know --

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: You're

19 expressing an difference of opinion and the

20 opinion as the opinion of the Board then, from

21 what Joe just stated?

22 MR. FOSTER: I don't know that. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 222

1 If you say, I'll accept it.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: But my

4 point being that it would be a processing aid

5 out of the context of a processing plant. And

6 that it's something different in a bottle and

7 a jar with a cap as opposed to a tank with

8 valve is odd to me.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

10 Jeff? 

11 MR. MOYER: I guess my question, 

12 Joe, I see a difference between the two. And

13 I was inclined to originally consider this as

14 a packaging aid, that made sense to me. But

15 what you just said infers that anywhere along

16 the processing chain if you used it for the

17 same use then it's -- so if you used it as the

18 first step in the processing, you would still

19 call that a packaging aid; and then I have a

20 problem with it. I do see differences. 

21 MR. SMILLIE: You're agreeing with

22 John, what John just said?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 223

1 MR. MOYER: Not exactly. Because

2 I think John sees the use, he doesn't care

3 where it is in the step of the process if I'm

4 reading your comment correctly, even at the

5 end in a bottle as a packaging aid, you see

6 that as being the same? 

7 MR. FOSTER: No.

8 MR. MOYER: Isn't that what your

9 comment just was? 

10 MR. FOSTER: I think we ought to--

11 if it's used in a tank, it's the same material

12 for the same purpose as it is in a bottle with

13 a cap. I think we ought to treat it the same

14 way. That's all I'm saying. And in a

15 processing facility it's a processing aid, so

16 it would discount the 100 percent claim on

17 anything after that point.

18 So if that carrot juice is in a

19 tank and you get the nitrogen displacement in

20 the tank, then at that moment that carrot

21 juice loses its ability to be labeled a 100

22 percent anywhere else down the chain.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 224

1 So the assumption is is that

2 process had not been used in the tank in the

3 processing facility, in the case of being

4 allowed 100 percent claim in the finished

5 product of this carrot juice with the nitrogen

6 flush, in that case so apparently the

7 processing plant that ended up producing the

8 finished product that Joe's talked about, a

9 bottle with a cap, you know a retail package,

10 had not used that same material in that same

11 way for the same purpose anywhere in the

12 processing facility. What I don't see a way

13 around is why you can treat a material for a

14 single use in one case, differently just

15 because it's in a bottle with a cap as

16 compared to a tank in a processing facility. 

17 I don't see -- that doesn't add any clarity to

18 me. I don't understand the rational to allow

19 that inconsistency.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. I

21 apologize to the readers in the transcript in

22 the future not to be able to get John's hand
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 225

1 message. But to Jeff --

2 MR. FELDMAN: Interpretive dance.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. To

4 Jeff, does this part of the discussion of

5 whether it's one or the other effect your

6 consideration of this document, or is this

7 just something --

8 MR. MOYER: Yes. No, it does. It

9 clearly does. 

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. I'm

11 happy to continue it then. If not, and it's

12 just -- when I initially introduced the

13 question to Joe was to get -- if that change

14 in language changed his interpretation of what

15 it mean as the Board's thinking in presenting

16 this document to the program, I wanted that on

17 the record. It's obvious now that it has --

18 that the Board is undecided on that influence. 

19 So I'm happy to get that on the record.

20 MR. MOYER: Yes.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I think we

22 only need to continue this part of it of that
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 226

1 influence if it's going to effect your vote on

2 this document.

3 MR. MOYER: Correct. And I do

4 think it will as a point of clarification.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

6 MR. MOYER: Because even though

7 the same material is used at different stages,

8 I guess I'm inclined to say if it's a

9 packaging aid, I'm approving of it. But if

10 it's used as a processing aid even though it's

11 the same material, atmospheric gases along the

12 way, then it's processing. But if you're

13 saying with this vote it's going to be allowed

14 anywhere along the chain, as it what John is

15 suggesting that they be equal, then I have a

16 problem with it.

17 MR. SMILLIE: Well once again, we

18 have the beautify and the luxury of not making

19 the regulation. We just make our

20 recommendation and the Program will determine

21 how they will deal with it and what guidance

22 they will give to certifiers if we do adopt
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 227

1 it.

2 So I believe that that issue can

3 be clarified.

4 To me processing means that you're

5 using something in a process to create

6 something. There's a reason for it. It's an

7 anti-foaming agent, it's a filtering agent;

8 it's doing something to move the process

9 forward. That's what processing aids do. 

10 This doesn't do that.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I think

12 this relates sort of to the diatomaceous earth

13 in grain tanks. To say that this is as

14 wondrous as the other would be like to say

15 only when you use the diatomaceous earth in

16 the last tank before it's feed to the cows

17 would cover for this, but other times it would

18 different. I don't understand that.

19 Tracy?

20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: I think

21 the argument could be made that it's a

22 processing aid right there in the bottle. It's
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 228

1 doing something. It's keeping the oil fresher

2 longer. In a drum it's keeping the carrot

3 juice fresher longer.

4 The recommendation as we put it

5 forth attempts to make some more fairness,

6 creates some more fairness. The rick is that

7 it creates inconsistency. So we're kind of

8 taking making a decision of more fairness,

9 less consistency, I believe, by voting yes on

10 this document. And I don't think it's a very

11 powerful argument to say that there's no

12 processing function. 

13 And I think it's a problem to

14 start introducing more layers of certification

15 and more terms. We haven't explored all the

16 other types of packaging aids, even though we

17 would be introducing the term.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

19 MR. DeMURI: I forget the

20 Committee's feeling on some wording change in

21 this.

22 Instead of calling a packaging
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 229

1 age, call it an oxygen displacer. Wherever

2 packaging aid shows up in your document, refer

3 to it as an oxygen displacement gas.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Would you

5 like to present that in the form of a motion?

6 MR. DeMURI: I would like to make

7 a motion for a friendly amendment.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: To make

9 the motion to change --

10 MR. DeMURI: To change the

11 language in the recommendation from "packaging

12 aid" to "oxygen displacement" anywhere in the

13 process.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe,

15 Tracy, would you accept that as a friendly

16 amendment?

17 MR. SMILLIE: I do.

18 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: I do

19 too. And I think it --

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Just yes

21 or no right now.

22 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Okay. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 230

1 Yes, and may I have a turn?

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. It's

3 been accepted as a friendly amendment to

4 change the language in this recommendation

5 from wherever it says "processing aid" --

6 MR. SMILLIE: Packaging aid.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: "packaging

8 aid" to "oxygen displacer."

9 Steve, maker of the motion, do you

10 have any further debate?

11 MR. DeMURI: No.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: I think

14 that's a pretty nice elegant solution and

15 would keep us from having to decide between

16 the fairness and the consistency. So I'd vote

17 for that.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

19 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. Yesterday, we

20 questioned what materials we were talking

21 about. And I'm trying to use this handy dandy

22 thing to figure out on the web what we're
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 231

1 actually talking about.

2 So what I come up with, and

3 Katrina you may be able to correct me, is that

4 the inert atmospheric gases include helium,

5 neon, argon, krypton, xenon, radon -- it

6 sounds like Superman's involved with this one. 

7 But I don't know -- I'm not sure about

8 nitrogen in that context. And if you just

9 define it as inert, whether you're going to

10 capture nitrogen, which is one of the

11 materials I understand you want to get to.

12 MR. SMILLIE: It's the main

13 material.

14 MR. FELDMAN: Yes. But you've

15 researched that apparently. I mean, you came

16 up with inert as including that, right?

17 MR. SMILLIE: I've never seen any

18 reference otherwise that N2 isn't an inert

19 gas.

20 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. I guess when

21 you're strictly talking about the elemental

22 table, it may not be there, but maybe in the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 232

1 trade it's referred to as inert. I don't know.

2 MS. HEINZE: I cannot help. I'm

3 sorry.

4 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. 

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I know

6 there are strict terminology in -- I

7 understand. There's strict terminology in

8 chemistry for the use of this term. There's

9 also use strict terminology in chemistry for

10 the use of the term "organic." And we've

11 slightly modified from that one.

12 I think whether the N2 form is

13 reactive or not is the pertinent information

14 here. And I think the intent of the document

15 is very clear, and I would hope that the

16 Program would evaluate the list to make sure

17 that whatever is listed there, is not a

18 nonreactive atmospheric gas and take any

19 guidance or rulemaking appropriately.

20 Is that reasonableness?

21 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: So -- Jay?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 233

1 MR. FELDMAN: One more question. 

2 Can you give me an example? Maybe you did,

3 John, and I just missed it, where in the

4 processing would this oxygen replacement as

5 opposed to packaging as the layperson

6 understands packaging, where in processing,

7 what would you use it?

8 MR. SMILLIE: Well until

9 yesterday, my understanding as that it was the

10 final cap fill.

11 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

12 MR. SMILLIE: That's where it's

13 mostly used, that's what we are talking about. 

14 I hadn't realized that it was used during the

15 processing -- I got to be careful here. It

16 wasn't used during the process. But

17 apparently it is. And for the same exact

18 reason; to prevent rancidity and not to change

19 anything.

20 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

21 MR. SMILLIE: Just to keep what

22 you got.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 234

1 MR. FELDMAN: Okay. 

2 MR. SMILLIE: Without having it

3 react. And in the bigger picture of things,

4 Jay, you know there's a lot of packaging

5 materials that we allow that we're starting to

6 find out do react.

7 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

8 MR. SMILLIE: And this doesn't.

9 MR. FELDMAN: Right.

10 MR. SMILLIE: So we're allowing

11 more things, to go back to back to your

12 philosophic dictum, this is just a much better

13 solution. And then you've got the food safety

14 aspect that the sole purpose is to prevent

15 rancidity.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

17 MR. DeMURI: Yes, Joe pretty said

18 what I was going to say.

19 Its used quite often in tanks to

20 push the oxygen out and put a nitrogen blanket

21 on top of the product, just on top. There'd

22 be an interface there. But just on top of the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 235

1 tank to keep oxidation from occurring before

2 that juice, for instance, goes further into

3 the process. It might sit in a tank for two

4 or three hours, so you don't want oxidation to

5 occur during that period of time.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

7 MR. FOSTER: In terms of full

8 disclosure I should note we do a product,

9 Earthbound does where we use nitrogen flush in

10 the finished packaging actually for the

11 purposes of displacing of oxygen. And we do

12 that.

13 MR. SMILLIE: But you're not

14 making a 100 percent claim.

15 MR. FOSTER: That is correct. 

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: This is

17 affecting the 100 percent claim.

18 MR. FOSTER: Yes. Okay. I wanted

19 to make it clear that --

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: You're

21 reminding me of conflict of interest.

22 MR. SMILLIE: So you're not
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 236

1 getting off on recusal on this one, John.

2 MR. FOSTER: I wanted to make

3 clear that despite the fact that we use it and

4 may in fact at some point in the future be

5 able to benefit from making a 100 percent

6 claim, we would choose not to.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff.

8 MR. MOYER: I have a question, I'm

9 not sure who it's for. But --

10 MR. SMILLIE: Well, I'll take it.

11 MR. MOYER: Thank you.

12 Last night sitting in the

13 restaurant I learned a little trick from Dan

14 that by -- yes, I talk more than I more

15 learn.

16 MR. SMILLIE: Too much

17 information.

18 MR. MOYER: That if you blow

19 through a straw into a glass of wine and put

20 CO2 into it, you can change --

21 MR. SMILLIE: The taste?

22 MR. MOYER: The -- completely the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 237

1 flavor and the texture of that wine.

2 MR. SMILLIE: Correct. Yes. 

3 That's CO2.

4 MR. MOYER: I got you. But are

5 there opportunities where inert atmospheric

6 gases would be infused into a product that

7 would somehow change it if --

8 MR. SMILLIE: The answer almost a

9 100 percent, and Steve might know more, is no. 

10 if you put it in, it comes up. That's what it

11 does. It's consistent behavior, nonreacting

12 consistent behavior, as far as I know.

13 MR. MOYER: So bubbling through

14 and infusing in there --

15 MR. SMILLIE: It wouldn't matter. 

16 Actually if you would allow me the indulgence,

17 I would like --

18 MR. MOYER: And I apologize. It's

19 an area of expertise of which --

20 MR. SMILLIE: But we need an

21 answer. I'd like to ask Gwen to come to the

22 mic to clarify it. If you don't mind.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 238

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes, Gwen?

2 MS. WYARD: Gwendolyn Wyard.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I'm

4 accused of having great control, but sometimes

5 I'm getting around it. That's okay. Go

6 ahead.

7 MS. WYARD: So this might be some

8 useful information, and it does sound like

9 hair splitting, but there is a distinction

10 that Oregon Tilth makes. And we make this

11 distinction because we're trying to hang our

12 hats on the word "processing aid." And the

13 requirement in the regulation that you have to

14 have an organic processing aid in order to

15 label something 100 percent. We're trying to

16 prevent going down the rabbit of hole at what

17 point along the process whether you're using

18 a sanitizer in the field that might knock

19 something out of the 100 percent category, to

20 something that you're using post-harvest

21 handling and something that you're using

22 during processing. We want to make a
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 239

1 distinction. We want it to be a processing

2 aid.

3 So when it comes to the use of

4 nitrogen under 834.1520 the ingredient is used

5 as a propellant aerating agent in gas as

6 defined in 173.025. Now pointing out it just

7 referred to it as an ingredient, however it

8 will do that throughout the regulation. The

9 point here is that 170.3025 describes the

10 technical functional effect of oxygen

11 displacement versus 21 CFR 173.24 that

12 describes the technical functional effect of

13 processing aids.

14 So the FDA makes a distinction

15 between an oxygen displacer and a processing

16 aid. And it doesn't matter whether you're

17 using it during processing or during

18 packaging. In fact, that definition of

19 processing includes packaging.

20 So whether you're flushing a tank

21 or whether you're adding it to a bag, the

22 technical functional effect is oxygen
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 240

1 displacement. And that could be in the case

2 whether it's going to be aerating or

3 propelling, or displacing oxygen; it's all

4 under that 170.3025 different than the

5 technical effect of processing aid.

6 So that's a distinction that we

7 make.

8 MR. SMILLIE: Could you speak to

9 the other issue? Does it react if you bubble

10 it through --

11 MS. WYARD: Blowing -- bubbling

12 into a line? I did that last night.

13 MR. SMILLIE: It's only 70 percent

14 nitrogen, though.

15 MS. WYARD: Right. So what the

16 question there again?

17 MR. SMILLIE: If you bubble into a

18 solution will it react differently?

19 MS. WYARD: No. Nitrogen

20 wouldn't.

21 MR. SMILLIE: Then would if you

22 lay it out?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 241

1 MS. WYARD: Right. Versus carbon

2 dioxide or --

3 MR. SMILLIE: Right.

4 MS. WYARD: Right, but nitrogen

5 would not.

6 MR. SMILLIE: It doesn't react?

7 MS. WYARD: Would not react.

8 MR. SMILLIE: Thank you.

9 MR. MOYER: Thank you. That was

10 very helpful for me.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Oh boy. 

12 Oxygen displacement, Joe or Steve, whichever

13 of you, the oxygen displacement issue I was

14 pretty comfortable with. But when Gwen then

15 reads the rest of that, I think super loading

16 that to use as a propellant is an entirely

17 different issue. Would that be part of this

18 document?

19 MR. DeMURI: No.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you. 

21 Thank you.

22 Is that clear to the Program that
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 242

1 it wouldn't be? Thank you.

2 Further debate?

3 MR. SMILLIE: I'm not sure how to

4 proceed now. Because there are some place --

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We'll take

6 the vote, that's the best way to proceed.

7 MR. SMILLIE: Yes, I know that. 

8 But I want to be clear. I don't want to --

9 you know. There may have to be some

10 wordsmithing because if you do a direct

11 replacement, it creates some non-English

12 sentences in there. It doesn't change the

13 intent of the document. But there has to be

14 some minor wordsmithing when you change from

15 packaging aid to oxygen displacement. But I

16 do not believe it affects the document. It

17 doesn't affect the intent of the document

18 whatsoever.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Was it

20 "displacement," or "displacer?"

21 MR. SMILLIE: Well that's what I

22 mean. It will depend on the context of the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 243

1 sentence.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Right. 

3 Right. I think the appropriate one is valid.

4 MR. SMILLIE: Thank you. Just want

5 to be clear.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Ready for

7 the question? 

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

9 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

11 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

13 MR. HALL: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

15 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Conflicts

17 of interest outside of John's statement?

18 MR. SMILLIE: I do not believe I

19 have a conflict of interest. We rule on this

20 everyday, but I have no interest in nitrogen

21 gas sales or -- but we have to rule on that.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 244

1 The Chair does not view that as a conflict.

2 MR. SMILLIE: Thank you.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We're

4 getting to far down the page to follow my

5 line.

6 Jeff?

7 MR. MOYER: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

9 MR. FELDMAN: Yes

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

11 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

13 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe 

15 Smillie?

16 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John 

18 Foster?

19 MR. FOSTER: Have you determined

20 whether or not I have a conflict of interest?

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: You're

22 allowed to vote.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 245

1 MR. FOSTER: No.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

3 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

5 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

7 Dickson?

8 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Chair

10 votes yes.

11 One absent, one no, 13 yes. 

12 Motion passes.

13 We are at 12:40. We're looking

14 for a lunch break. 1:40 -- 1:45 back for

15 after lunch.

16 (Whereupon, at 12:44 p.m. the

17 meeting was adjourned, to reconvene this same

18 day at 1:57 p.m.)

19

20

21

22
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 246

1 A-F-T-E-R-N-O-O-N S-E-S-S-I-O-N

2 1:57 p.m.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay are

4 you ready? The rest of the Board all

5 completed our lunchtime. We're a little late,

6 but we're fairly well ahead of schedule, and

7 hopefully that will continue.

8 Valerie, are you ready? Okay. 

9 All the sound?

10 We had the motion earlier to table

11 the discussion on methionine until after lunch

12 for the makers of all the various motion to

13 get the language together for the amendment to

14 the main motion. So, Jay, could you please

15 read the agreed upon language to amend the

16 main motion?

17 MR. FELDMAN: Yes. Thank you.

18 We're really only adding a

19 sentence or a portion of a sentence that would

20 affect the expiration of the --

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Let's just

22 start by reading it.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 247

1 MR. FELDMAN: I'm reading the last

2 sentence here.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

4 MR. FELDMAN: On October 1, 2015,

5 allowed uses of the synthetic methionine in

6 organic poultry production expires.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. And

8 that's agreed to by the second. Thank you.

9 So that has been properly moved

10 and seconded?

11 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: This is

13 the language. This is where we tabled, this

14 is where we're coming to with the exact

15 language that they're looking for.

16 Jay, please, proceed with any

17 debate.

18 MR. FELDMAN: Yes. Again, just to

19 review quickly. The point of this was to make

20 sure that everybody understands the

21 seriousness of this issue and it's tacked onto

22 the original motion because the step down
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 248

1 process is one that the Board would be

2 endorsing. It's just at the end of that step

3 down process this amendment would require

4 those that feel its continued use is essential

5 and necessary, would have to repetition to

6 retain that use.

7 My feeling is that this sends a

8 stronger message than putting it into the

9 Sunset process. And, hopefully, will

10 contribute to the ability to do more research,

11 generate more interest to support research

12 that would help facilitate the transition to

13 another source of methionine or other

14 practices that might help in this regard.

15 Thank you. That's all I have to

16 say.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

18 Jeff?

19 MR. MOYER: Just to try and

20 represent the Livestock Committee's

21 perspective, and the reason that we had chosen

22 in our original recommendation to not have an
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 249

1 expiration date on methionine was because we

2 had already gone through a process where we've

3 had two, if not three, expiration dates on

4 this material and each time the Methionine

5 Task Force has repetitioned to the Committee

6 and to this Board to have it reinstated on the

7 List.

8 The Livestock Committee felt by

9 taking the drastic step down measure that down

10 and putting it into the Sunset process still

11 enables us to review the material every five

12 years, but frees up the slate of work on the

13 Livestock Committee to move on to other items. 

14 Because this continuously keeps coming up and

15 I can almost guarantee you that you will see

16 a petition in before the Livestock Committee

17 that sits at that point, we'll see a petition

18 to reinstate again and again. And our goal is

19 to move beyond that. Not that we didn't think

20 research was important. We think we're

21 sending a fairly strong message with the

22 drastic step down that we already gave them.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 250

1 That was kind of our position from

2 the Livestock Committee.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

4 MR. FOSTER: I think the Livestock

5 Committee's work has been really good, really

6 strong. I think they did the hard work and

7 continue to do it.

8 I also think that the participants

9 in the Methionine Task Force and associates

10 have already shown very clearly that they get

11 this is an important thing and have made as

12 significant movement in research and ponying

13 up money as much more than any other interest

14 group out there. I think they clearly

15 understand this already.

16 And I think for those two reasons,

17 I think the original Livestock Committee's

18 recommendation I think is good.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

20 MR. MOYER: Point of clarification

21 for the Board, Dan. A no vote on this

22 particular amended language would send it back
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 251

1 to the original recommendation of the

2 Livestock Committee, and we would vote on

3 that, is that correct?

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. This

5 is to amend the motion.

6 MR. MOYER: But if we vote yes on

7 this the Livestock Committee's is a dead

8 issue? And this is what we would be

9 accepting?

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No. We

11 would then vote on this as the amended motion.

12 MR. MOYER: Right.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: So first

14 we vote to amend the motion. If that fails,

15 we vote on the original motion. If that

16 passes, we vote on the amended motion.

17 MR. MOYER: I gotcha.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We're

19 going to have two votes either way.

20 MR. MOYER: Thank you very much

21 for that clarification.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 252

1 MS. HEINZE: I'm having a dej... vu

2 moment. I'm vaguely remembering that perhaps

3 my first or second meeting we had this

4 conversation as the result of a petition to

5 methionine because their cut off date was

6 coming. And there were some who wanted to --

7 we had the same debate: Should we put it into

8 Sunset or should we have a cut off date. And

9 there were some Board members who felt we had

10 to have the cut off date to be able to

11 communicate to future Boards the concern.

12 Am I imagining things or am I

13 correct?

14 MR. MOYER: I don't know if you're

15 imagining things, but in this particular point

16 you are correct.

17 MS. HEINZE: Thank you.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. As

19 I've stated before when we originally -- an

20 early draft of this recommendation had one

21 more step down period, which was the full

22 intent of, for lack of a better word, pinching
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 253

1 the industry to really go after and initiate

2 all possible avenues to that research. We

3 could not find a scientific justification for

4 the numbers we picked, so we backed up one, we

5 settled on these numbers with the one step

6 down. We had a number of public comments from

7 one side of the issue wanting the finding to

8 be completely off. We had a number of

9 comments from the other side issue requesting

10 us to transfer the young chickens in the step

11 down to the larger amount of methionine. 

12 Because of all the debate requesting that

13 methionine come off, we decided to stay with

14 this recommendation and not agree to the

15 request from the poultry community to move the

16 young chickens.

17 In my mind the effect of that is

18 essentially that it's going to continue to

19 spur that research because some of that

20 community is right now saying they'll have an

21 extremely, extremely hard time if possible to

22 achieve it.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 254

1 So I think the demand for pushing

2 for research will continue. And it was a

3 great desire of the Program, the Livestock

4 Committee and a large part of the public over

5 three times in my time of being on this Board,

6 I believe, to please get this onto Sunset so

7 we don't have to be continuing to deal with

8 the petition process.

9 Jay?

10 MR. FELDMAN: All this amendment

11 does is gives the ability of future Boards to

12 address the annotation issue. It ensures the

13 ability to address the annotation issue.

14 If the Sunset process doesn't

15 change and we go with the original amendment,

16 then the Board does not have the authority to

17 change the annotation, as we all know, unless

18 we can encourage someone to petition, which is

19 somewhat of an artificial process. Because,

20 you know, here we already have something

21 that's controversial. The Committee in its

22 wisdom has created a step down process that
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 255

1 the industry seems to think is probably

2 viable. But there are still unknowns

3 associated with that

4 The controversy on the chemical

5 has not gone away. All this amendment does is

6 ensure that we as a Board, as we vote on this

7 thing, guarantees us the opportunity to

8 address the annotation process, or address the

9 annotation. No other process guarantees us

10 that opportunity because we cannot as a Board

11 be ensured that anybody would petition or we

12 would artificially ask someone to petition who

13 would, or might or might or not. You know we

14 just have no control over that.

15 So this is a guarantee on a

16 chemical that's controversial. It's an

17 attempt to compromise among those who think

18 this a bad idea to institutionalize and others

19 who recognize they don't want to be disruptive

20 to the industry, but want to help to

21 facilitate a transition, this is an attempt to

22 create a middle ground so that there's some
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 256

1 assurance and guarantee to future Boards that

2 they will have the opportunity to do what you

3 all did on the Committee, and that is craft an

4 annotation that reflects your best sense of

5 what needs to be done as of today.

6 Thanks.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Mr.

9 Chair, I'd like to call a question on this

10 amendment.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

12 further debate? Tina?

13 SECRETARY ELLOR: I still feel

14 like the original Livestock Committee

15 recommendation is the best of all worlds, and

16 this is why. It puts it into straight Sunset

17 at a defined and reduce usage to spur further

18 developments of alternatives, which we know

19 are on the way. It also provides a great

20 incentive for those people who have invested

21 in these alternatives to come forward at

22 Sunset and say we don't need this anymore.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 257

1 And I know that that's not how it

2 always works, but I think there's strong and

3 focused incentive built into this for those

4 people to come forward at Sunset. But this

5 puts into straight Sunset and off this

6 perpetual petition cycle.

7 And I'd also like to point out, I

8 love my birds. Birds aren't meant to be

9 vegetarian. And the way the office set up

10 this is sort of forcing birds to become

11 vegetarians. And methionine is important.

12 Once again, I don't want to see

13 naked chickens, absolutely not. Whether in

14 the future there will be a continued need for

15 a small anti-synthetic methionine, that is yet

16 to be determined. We know there's

17 alternatives in the development. I think that

18 the Livestock Committee recommendation is the

19 best of all worlds to forward that agenda.

20 And I'd like to go back to the

21 original. 

22 Thank you.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 258

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

2 debate? Seeing none, proceed to vote on the

3 motion to amend the motion. So the motion is

4 to accept this language.

5 I'm trying to figure out where to

6 put it. Okay. 

7 So an affirmative vote accepts

8 this new language into the motion, which we

9 would then vote on that. A negative vote

10 retains the original motion and we would vote

11 on that.

12 Annette?

13 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

15 MR. HALL: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes?

17 MR. HALL: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Conflicts?

19 MS. FULWIDER: Organic Prairie

20 does have hen houses. I don't make money on

21 chickens. 

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I have no
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 259

1 problem with you voting.

2 MS. FULWIDER: I would vote no.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No.

4 Jay? I'm sorry. Jeff?

5 MR. MOYER: I vote no.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

7 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

9 SECRETARY ELLOR: No.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

11 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: No.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe?

13 MR. SMILLIE: No.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

15 MR. FOSTER: No.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

17 MR. DeMURI: No.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

19 MS. HEINZE: No.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

21 Dickson?

22 MR. DICKSON: No.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 260

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

2 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No.

4 Ten no, 4 yes, 1 absent. Motion

5 fails.

6 Mr. Chairman of the Livestock

7 Committee, Acting Chairman, Jeff?

8 MR. MOYER: Yes. 

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The debate

10 is now reopened on the existing motion. Is

11 there any further debate on the recommendation

12 from the Livestock Committee to relist

13 methionine with the step down putting it back

14 onto Sunset.

15 Joe?

16 MR. SMILLIE: Yes. There will be a

17 question. Originally the Methionine Task

18 Force came back and asked you to change the

19 number somewhat. This is the question about

20 the numbers. I just wanted to hear what your

21 reasoning for not boosting the methionine

22 levels in pullets and broilers is. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 261

1 Differentiating it from layers and turkeys, I

2 think.

3 MR. MOYER: Okay. I'll attempt to

4 answer it, but other Livestock Committee

5 members please feel free to jump in.

6 For broilers, for example, the

7 difference would have been for the entire life

8 span of the bird because they asked for 27

9 weeks.

10 Pullets we did discuss but felt

11 that in talking to industry people in the

12 hallways and privately, that it wasn't

13 absolutely necessary. 

14 To follow-up on what Jay was

15 saying, we wanted to make sure that the

16 industry certainly felt the need to pursue

17 other avenues, to work on research, and in

18 counsel with Wendy and other people on the

19 Committee felt that scientifically the birds

20 would be okay at those lower levels. 

21 Our goal is to use this as a tool

22 to also help modify production practices. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 262

1 Because we know that production practices are

2 also related directly to the bird's need for

3 methionine.

4 So we thought we struck a good

5 balance when we originally discussed this in

6 Committee. We did take into account the

7 public's comment and the comments from people

8 in the Methionine Task Force to include those

9 birds. But again, our recommendation was to

10 not accept that.

11 Is that helpful? But maybe

12 Wendy--

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any other

14 Livestock Committee members?

15 MS. FULWIDER: I agree with what

16 he's saying.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The reason

18 I've decided to stay with this was twofold. 

19 Again, I'm a firm believer in the petition

20 process. This is now an annotation on Sunset

21 that's allowable for a petition to change the

22 annotation.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 263

1 Number two, this brings into great

2 focus the problem that Tina just expressed

3 where, unfortunately, OFPA has created an

4 abnormal diet for poultry. And I'm hoping it

5 will give the opportunity for the Livestock

6 Committee to work with the program to explore

7 possible potential ways that that issue can be

8 addressed to meet within the need. And I

9 understand that's in OFPA, which makes it very

10 difficult. But to also, though, meet the

11 needs and demands of all of the rest of the

12 industry that would be concerned, depending on

13 how that language is written, that would be

14 concerned with any liberalization of the

15 regulation that would be ensued.

16 So that's the process I would like

17 to encourage to proceed as well.

18 Joe?

19 MR. SMILLIE: Yes. One other

20 thing. You know, the vegetarian diet is one

21 thing, and that's an important thing which in

22 my understanding is in Europe they don't have
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 264

1 that same constriction.

2 My understanding also is that

3 Canada, who we have mentioned briefly in our

4 talks as influencing us on hydroponics, have

5 no restrictions on methionine, and we have an

6 equivalency agreement with Canada. So that

7 means that American consumers can eat USDA

8 chicken that has methionine.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: They can

10 now.

11 MR. SMILLIE: They can now.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Even in

13 our regulation.

14 MR. SMILLIE: Right.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We just

16 have it --

17 MR. SMILLIE: Well, you're

18 stepping it down.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

20 MR. SMILLIE: Okay. Just wanted

21 to make those two points.

22 Would the Committee, in your
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 265

1 recommendation, consider a friendly amendment

2 to split the difference and boost for broiler

3 chickens and pullets up to 2.5 pounds per ton

4 for broilers and pullets? In other words, a

5 slight boost for those two categories. Would

6 the Committee consider that as a friendly

7 amendment? I'm proposing an amendment.

8 I would propose that we move to

9 replace, after October 1st, 2012, the

10 following maximum levels per ton. Laying and

11 broiler chickens 2 pounds per tons ending

12 there, and replacing with, after October 1,

13 2012, the following maximum levels per ton: 

14 Laying chickens 2 pounds per ton, the same;

15 broiler chickens and pullets 2.5 pounds per

16 ton.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: And

18 turkeys?

19 MR. SMILLIE: The same. That's

20 continued. 

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Arthur?

22 MR. NEAL: Please forgive me. I'm
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 266

1 just coming back. Don't know the full history

2 on how we came to our numbers. But I want to

3 caution us all on how do we justify the

4 numbers that we've established for this

5 annotation?

6 I mean, I'm not saying that you

7 have not done it.

8 MR. MOYER: Right.

9 MR. NEAL: But even in making

10 changes to it, what's the rationale that we're

11 using to make the changes? Because it needs

12 to be documented. Because when we go to rule13 making, we've got to put it in the Federal

14 Register.

15 MR. MOYER: And that was going to

16 be my answer to you, Joe, that the Committee,

17 while we haven't had a chance to discuss your

18 friendly amendment here among ourselves, my

19 reaction is to say no we would not accept that

20 because it's an arbitrary number just pulled

21 out of thin air, which Arthur is just alluding

22 to. The Committee itself did do its due
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 267

1 diligence in terms of searching through the

2 industry to come up with the numbers that we

3 came up with looking at, as Dan indicated

4 yesterday, talking to feed mills, talking to

5 producers and folks who are raising chickens

6 to come to the numbers that we came with. And

7 as the Acting Chair of the Committee, I would

8 be reluctant to come up arbitrary numbers to

9 plug in today sitting here at this meeting.

10 So my answer to you is no, we

11 would not accept that friendly amendment.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I would

13 respectfully disagree with your statement

14 there, Jeff, of his arbitrariness. Without

15 extensive writing in our recommendation on the

16 process of the step down, it could be easily

17 said we cut the numbers in half but we decided

18 to do more than that on broilers without

19 justifying why were doing that to broilers.

20 I don't think putting that in at

21 2.5, which is half of what the broilers are in

22 the earlier part of the recommendation, would
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 268

1 be considered anymore arbitrary than anything

2 else.

3 Tracy?

4 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Mr.

5 Chair, we need to --

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We had one

7 -- for the Livestock Committee comment. I'm

8 sorry.

9 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Mr.

10 Chair, we need to --

11 SECRETARY ELLOR: This is in

12 response to Joe's comment.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Right.

14 SECRETARY ELLOR: I did raise my

15 hand. Honest to God I did.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

17 SECRETARY ELLOR: The usage is

18 only half the concern about methionine. There

19 are other concerns around methionine besides

20 just the use of it. And that's my point.

21 MR. MOYER: Right.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 269

1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: 

2 Procedurally we can't ask the Livestock

3 Committee whether they would make an

4 amendment. This is out of Committee now and

5 a motion before the full Board. And so any

6 amendment proposed would be to the Board's

7 motion. And if there is no second, then

8 there's no amendment being discussed right

9 now.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Well, he

11 asked if the Committee would accept it as a

12 friendly amendment in making it.

13 MR. SMILLIE: I asked if the

14 motioner would accept it.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

16 MR. SMILLIE: And no second.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: And he

18 said no.

19 MR. MOYER: And I said no.

20 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Okay. 

21 Thanks.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Valerie --
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 270

1 MR. SMILLIE: So it's off the

2 floor now, right?

3 MS. FRANCES: I do want to remind

4 the Committee that there is all the backup

5 criteria when you make your recommendation,

6 all the little checklists under each category.

7 And you don't really capture your discussion

8 well there in terms of the bases for your

9 numbers. I think it certainly is reflected in

10 your various Livestock Committee minutes and

11 all the discussion that you did have. But it

12 would, I think, would be helpful when you

13 actually submit this final document to make

14 sure you do that in here.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

16 MR. MOYER: I acknowledge that on

17 behalf of the Committee. And when we do submit

18 the final documentation we will document all

19 those numbers, the way we came to those

20 numbers.

21 MS. FRANCES: Do you have any of

22 your notes on that here that you could add it
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 271

1 into the record right now?

2 MR. MOYER: I'm going to say no. 

3 I probably do, but I'm not going to spend an

4 hour finding them.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe, would

6 you like to make that in the format of a

7 motion to amend?

8 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Did you do

10 it in that form before, or did I just miss it?

11 MR. SMILLIE: I thought I did.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: You did? 

13 Okay. 

14 Is there a second to Joe's motion

15 to amend? Yes, unfriendly.

16 MR. SMILLIE: No.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: No, not

18 making it. Okay. 

19 MR. SMILLIE: Just one last

20 question instead of the unfriendly amendment.

21 Isn't there a difference between

22 the methionine needs of a pullet and an layer,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 272

1 although the pullets will become layers or

2 they'll become broilers, right? But isn't

3 there a difference in their methionine needs? 

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

5 MR. SMILLIE: Wendy.

6 MS. FULWIDER: Yes. Well, the

7 younger the bird is when they're growing and

8 they're feathering, there is a greater need.

9 And then, of course, after they molt, you know

10 they have a greater need when they're

11 refeathering. So, I mean, it's not a simple

12 issue.

13 MR. SMILLIE: Want it to be. 

14 Okay. I'll accept it.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

16 debate? Ready for the question? 

17 To take your statement of

18 potential conflict of interest, Wendy, the

19 Chair does not feel that that justifies you

20 not to vote on this unless there's any

21 significant objection from any other members

22 of the Board. We'll proceed with that.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 273

1 Program, Arthur?

2 MR. NEAL: Mr. Chair, just

3 thinking through the process and the time line

4 that has to be met for methionine, providing

5 the justification is going to pass the muster

6 test. I'm concerned. 

7 If the recommendation is not

8 thoroughly fleshed out as to how we came up

9 with this, this annotation, which it may be,

10 our ability to explain it so the industry and

11 those who will be participating in the formal

12 public process can understand it as well as

13 OTC and whoever else has to review it

14 internally, we're probably going to have an

15 issue. That's my personal concern.

16 I think some of us on the Program

17 probably feel the same way, especially those

18 of us who have to write it.

19 And just for future references,

20 any decision -- one of the things that

21 distinguishes this Board from some other

22 organic programs across the world is that I
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 274

1 think we document our decisions such that

2 people can follow how we came to where we

3 ended. And I'll never forget in Codex one

4 time we were being challenged on a materials

5 decisions that our Board had made, and there

6 was not any documentation that they had. But

7 we did have some.

8 And so if we're going to make

9 these types of recommendations, we want to

10 make sure that how we make them can be

11 defensible when we're challenged.

12 And so I just highly recommend

13 that for future references whatever decisions

14 we make, they're thorough with respect to the

15 criteria sheets, that we have, all of the

16 information that's necessary to fill in the

17 gaps or provide it because we have to write

18 the rules based on what you all provide us.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you. 

20 We ready for the question?

21 MR. McEVOY: I'd like to add a

22 little bit to that.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 275

1 I've already been through the

2 federal rule-making process, well only once

3 with a major rule. And when I first got there

4 in October the idea is we were going to get

5 that Access to Pasture final rule published by

6 the end of December. It came out in mid7 February.

8 There are lots and lots of

9 questions, lots of economics questions that

10 come up during the review process.

11 Seeing this complicated

12 annotation, it's very different from

13 annotations in the past with this very, very

14 tight time line that we have in front of this

15 to do this before October. I definitely have

16 concerns that this going to be challenges.

17 I hope that the background that

18 you have, the justification that you have for

19 this annotation is very solid because we'll

20 probably need it as we move forward.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The time

22 line of this is certainly unfortunate. We
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 276

1 requested this petition pretty much when we

2 made the previous recommendation. We received

3 it, I believe, like the last week in August,

4 a week before we were supposed to post

5 recommendations for the fall meeting. And we

6 had no time to act on it then.

7 I understand your concern. I am

8 very concerned with the potential disruption

9 to the industry. Is there a process that you

10 would recommend that we can follow? Can we

11 split this into two or what can we do right

12 now that would help you not disrupt methionine

13 in October, but maintain the intent?

14 Steve?

15 MR. DeMURI: Could we go back and

16 rebuild on the Sunset? We considered the

17 Sunset for another year or two years while

18 they have time to flesh out this petition?

19 MR. MOYER: Well, Dan, in response

20 to Steve, if we were to vote yes on this,

21 nothing does change for two years. They

22 maintain their current levels that they
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 277

1 already have through 2012. So this puts that

2 into play. We're not stepping anything down

3 at this point in time. There should be at

4 least, according to what we're saying here, no

5 disruption in the industry for a minimum of

6 two years, which is when we requested the step

7 down. But we would be able to get before our

8 final recommendation to the Program, all the

9 documentation that we used to come up with the

10 numbers that we came up.

11 The industry, of course, in that

12 two years could repetition to change that

13 annotation if there was a problem. But it

14 would not fall off in October and it would

15 disrupt the industry.

16 MR. SMILLIE: Is that true,

17 though? Aren't they going to be able to not

18 use it in October of 2010? Because this

19 petition won't be in effect yet.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: If it

21 doesn't get listed, it will go off the List

22 and they won't be able to use it. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 278

1 I'll get to you, Katrina.

2 If that motion is made, Steve, we

3 have to proceed but it would not be my

4 preference until we find out the response from

5 the Program.

6 It would take extreme cooperation

7 from this Board to do what I'm thinking. But

8 there is a possibility, I think, and we would

9 ask the Program if this were appropriate also,

10 if it would be appropriate at this time that

11 we could split this into two recommendations,

12 one that can be posted to save methionine for

13 October and a second one that would put in

14 the step down and switch it over to Sunset

15 that could be advanced later on.

16 So I would like to know what the

17 Program -- if you want to make that motion, we

18 will accept it and proceed. But I would like

19 to see what the Program has to say.

20 Katrina, did you have anything?

21 MS. HEINZE: I was thinking the

22 same thing you were. If we split it with the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 279

1 first one, have a cut off date of the October

2 1, 2012?

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

4 MS. HEINZE: Okay. 

5 MR. McEVOY: We would recommend

6 because of the tight time frame that you split

7 this into different recommendations. And if

8 you pass both of them, we can try to do it as

9 one rule-making action. But if we start to

10 run into problems with the step down part of

11 this, we can just do that as a separate item.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

13 MR. McEVOY: So that we can move

14 forward and extend the expiration date to

15 2012.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Valerie,

17 are you going to be able to manage this? 

18 Doing this on the -- okay.

19 Livestock Committee is that

20 reasonable to you?

21 MR. MOYER: The Livestock

22 Committee has no objection to that.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 280

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. I

2 think the best action would be for the

3 Livestock Committee to withdraw their current

4 motion, or the maker, who was Jeff, I believe.

5 MR. MOYER: I'm willing to

6 withdraw the motion.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: You're

8 just withdrawing your motion?

9 MR. FELDMAN: Yes. I'm saying I'm

10 to withdraw the motion.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Second?

12 MR. MOYER: Tina.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina

14 seconded that. Do you agree?

15 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes. That would

16 be fine.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. All

18 right. Jeff, do you have a motion regarding

19 methionine that would deal with the first half

20 of this up through the period of 6 pounds per

21 ton?

22 MR. MOYER: Yes. I would like to
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 281

1 make a motion to amend 7 CFR 205.603(d)(1) as 

2 follows: DL-Methionine, DL-Methionine hydroxy

3 analog and DL-Methionine hydroxy analog

4 calcium for the use only in organic poultry

5 production until October 1, 2012 at the

6 following maximum levels per ton: Synthetic

7 methionine in the food ration; Laying

8 chickens, 4 pounds per ton, broiler chickens

9 5 pounds per tons, and turkey and all other

10 poultry 6 pounds per ton.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Second? 

12 Is there a second.

13 SECRETARY ELLOR: Second.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: It's been

15 moved and seconded to amend the annotation for

16 methionine as stated. Again, the way you have

17 it in front of you in the documents to cutting

18 it off after the 6 pounds per ton for turkeys

19 and all other poultry.

20 Mr. Maker of the motion, do you

21 have any further debate?

22 MR. MOYER: I do not.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 282

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

2 further debate? We ready for the question?

3 Beginning with Jennifer?

4 MR. HALL: No.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I stand by

6 the same Chair decision regarding any conflict

7 with Wendy. 

8 And does everyone understand what

9 we're voting on right now?

10 MR. SMILLIE: I beg your

11 indulgence. Could you just recalculate what

12 an affirmative means and what a negative

13 means?

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Affirmative

15 means that we are relisting methionine for the

16 use in poultry until October 1, 2012 at the

17 levels of 4 pounds for layers, 5 pounds for

18 broilers, 6 pounds for turkeys and all other

19 poultry.

20 Jennifer, your vote was no.

21 Wendy? 

22 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 283

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

2 MR. MOYER: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

4 MR. FELDMAN: No.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

6 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

8 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

10 Smillie?

11 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John 

13 Foster?

14 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

16 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

18 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

20 Dickson?

21 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 284

1 MR. FLAMM: No.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

3 MR. RIHERD: No.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Chair

5 votes yes.

6 One abstention, we have 14 voting. 

7 Four nos, 10 yes, 14 vote, one absent, with 14

8 voting, it takes ten to pass. Motion passes.

9 To complete the rest of the second

10 half of that -- yes, Valerie?

11 MS. FRANCES: I only got three

12 nos. Did I miss somebody.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry,

14 Annette, Jennifer and Jay.

15 MS. FRANCES: Okay. 

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff,

17 would you please with what we were doing

18 there, please make the second motion for this

19 process?

20 MR. MOYER: Yes, Mr. Chairman,

21 I'll do my best.

22 After October 1st, 2012 I move
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 285

1 that we amend 7 CFR 205.603(d)(1) as follows:

2 DL-Methionine, DL-Methionine hydroxy analog

3 and DL-Methionine hydroxy analog calcium for

4 the use in organic poultry to be at the

5 following levels per ton: 

6 Laying and broiler chickens, 2

7 pounds per ton, and turkey and all other

8 poultry 3 pounds per ton.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Nobody

10 second.

11 Can I make a suggestion, Jeff?

12 MR. MOYER: That's fine.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Could you

14 please just change that motion to amend the

15 annotation on poultry -- oh, we have to do it

16 this way because the other one is not yet

17 fully in place. Okay. So we have to reread

18 the entire thing --

19 MR. MOYER: That's what I thought.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: -- as a

21 full complete. Okay. Second?

22 SECRETARY ELLOR: I second.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 286

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. Mr.

2 Maker of the motion, any further debate? Does

3 he have any further debate? Jeff?

4 MR. MOYER: No, I do not.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

6 MR. SMILLIE: Maybe it's a mute

7 point and I'm just tired and can't think

8 straight. But how is this going to affect

9 Sunset, the two petitions? Are they both

10 going to Sunset in five years?

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The first,

12 the one we just voted on, has a drop dead

13 date. It's in this current process we have

14 been in since methionine was put on. It would

15 need a petition to relist because of the drop

16 dead date.

17 This motion would amend that

18 annotation to drop to a lower level and put it

19 onto Sunset. The second one was Sunset.

20 Valerie, are we straight over

21 there? I think so. Good.

22 Program?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 287

1 MR. NEAL: I'm sorry, but I missed

2 this earlier on the first vote, and I know

3 we're on the second portion of the vote. This

4 is a complexity of what we're talking about.

5 To justify the annotation by

6 October 1, 2010, it has to be a solid

7 justification. Because it's very different

8 from what's currently in the regulations.

9 If you're confident that the

10 justification is there, no snags, no people

11 are going to fly with it or be able to delete

12 it and get their questions answered, then we

13 can probably make that October date. If we

14 can't, we do run the risk of disrupting the

15 industry.

16 The one option would be to end the

17 first portion of the recommendation at the

18 date October 12, 2012, or October 1, 2011,

19 something of that nature. And work to try to

20 get the other piece, the step down in, when

21 you're comfortable with the justification if

22 you're not already comfortable with the
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 288

1 justification.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The

3 amounts set in the first vote we have already

4 taken, are the exact amounts taken from the

5 petition that came from the industry with only

6 one slight change. They asked for it to be an

7 average over the life span of the bird and we

8 took that off to just be each ton that's made. 

9 There was absolutely no objection from the

10 poultry industry to the first half of this

11 recommendation. The only comment that we

12 received was on the second half.

13 Is that substantive to your

14 concern?

15 MR. NEAL: It is. And I think

16 that that would probably and should be

17 sufficient if that's the case.

18 MR. McEVOY: What is involved here

19 is that you're putting in a whole bunch of new

20 information, and we'll have to justify it so

21 it's going to take longer because there's

22 going to be questions: Where did you come up
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 289

1 with these numbers? Do we have the research? 

2 Is it supported by evidence by the community

3 of poultry producers? You know, do we have

4 that background to justify that. It's going

5 to slow down the process, I'll put it that

6 way, because we have to justify --

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We have

8 the structure place for the Methionine Task

9 Force as well. We have the --

10 MR. McEVOY: Okay. So if you have

11 all that information, then we'll use that. It

12 is going to open up more questions why you

13 putting in all these additional restrictions

14 or annotations for that given material. Since

15 we're in such a tight time frame that will

16 potentially impact our ability to get this

17 done by October. But if you have lots of good

18 information, we'll use that and we'll do the

19 best we can.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina? She

21 called point of order.

22 SECRETARY ELLOR: Point of order. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 290

1 We are responding to a petition from the

2 industry, that's what we're doing at this

3 meeting. So we're not -- this isn't being

4 pulled out of thin air. This is in response

5 to a petition.

6 So what we're basically doing is

7 pretty much giving them what they petitioned

8 for with that first vote.

9 With the second vote then we

10 introduce the more complicated step down

11 process.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

13 debate on the question of the second motion? 

14 Steve?

15 MR. SMILLIE: A question for the

16 Program. The people that are going to be

17 asking the questions, will they take the

18 opinion of the groups that were against this

19 into consideration as well?

20 MR. NEAL: We do have to provide

21 it. We have to provide all positions that

22 were presented on this particular petition.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 291

1 MR. SMILLIE: So that could

2 potentially slow it up?

3 MR. NEAL: It depends on how valid

4 they are.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

6 MR. MOYER: Steve, were you

7 referencing the consumer groups that wanted it

8 dropped, is that what I'm to understand, not

9 just the industry folks?

10 MR. SMILLIE: Consumer groups.

11 MR. MOYER: Thank you.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

13 comment? Debate, questions? We ready for the

14 question?

15 Okay. Starting out, conflicts. 

16 The Chair has already voiced its opinion on

17 Wendy. Anything else?

18 Katrina?

19 MS. HEINZE: I just need to

20 clarify. So we're voting on the step down

21 with--

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annotation
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 292

1 change to add the step down and convert it to

2 Sunset.

3 MS. HEINZE: Without a cut off?

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We are

5 voting on this entire language right now. An

6 annotation with this entire language.

7 MS. HEINZE: But there's no cut

8 off, right?

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Sunset.

10 MS. HEINZE: Okay. Thank you.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. So

12 a yes vote is to accept the motion to change

13 the annotation to this entire language.

14 Wendy?

15 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

17 MR. MOYER: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

19 MR. FELDMAN: No.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

21 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 293

1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

3 Smillie?

4 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John 

6 Foster?

7 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

9 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

11 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

13 Dickson?

14 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

16 MR. FLAMM: No

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

18 MR. RIHERD: No.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

20 MR. HALL: No.

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. The

22 Chair votes yes.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 294

1 One absent, 4 no's, 10 yes. 

2 Motion passes.

3 Does that conclude the matters

4 before this Board from the Livestock

5 Committee?

6 MR. MOYER: I certainly hope so.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you

8 MR. MOYER: And I appreciate

9 everybody's indulgence.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I

11 appreciate everyone's hard work. I appreciate

12 the inputs from the Program, the efforts that

13 Valerie, obviously, has endured and

14 everybody's working concern on this.

15 And we now move to the Policy

16 Committee, Chairman Barry with your

17 recommendation for this meeting.

18 MR. FLAMM: We have a

19 recommendation on the two tier process, and

20 Steve will present that as he explained

21 yesterday.

22 MR. DeMURI: Thank you, Barry.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 295

1 We went through this yesterday. 

2 The Committee did not meet and did not make

3 any changes to it since the last time you've

4 seen it.

5 So, at this point I want to

6 explain real quick that it is a two tier

7 voting process to reinstate that process as it

8 relates to materials that are petitioned to

9 the Board to be added to the National List. 

10 And as I mentioned yesterday, in

11 the past the Board used to vote twice on each

12 material whether or not is was synthetic, and

13 a yes or no vote. That practice was stopped

14 at some point. We are just putting language

15 back into the policy manual to reestablish

16 that procedure.

17 So it was unanimous in the

18 Committee. And we made no changes to what you

19 saw yesterday.

20 So with that, I'd like to move

21 that this two tier voting procedure be made a

22 part of the Policy Manual for NOSB.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 296

1 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Second.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Been moved

3 and seconded to accept the recommendation from

4 the Policy Committee regarding two tiered

5 voting.

6 Steve made the motion, Steve's

7 first. Steve, do you have anything further?

8 MR. DeMURI: I do not.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

10 further comments and debate? Barry, do you

11 have anything? Joe?

12 MR. SMILLIE: Would the Policy

13 Committee considering referencing the new

14 document on Classification of Materials in

15 their manual?

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: How is

17 that in regard to this motion for two tiered

18 voting?

19 MR. SMILLIE: I think it directly

20 affects --

21 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

22 MS. HEINZE: I guess I'm not sure
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 297

1 why you're asking for this. Because this --

2 you mean just for the historical that they're

3 doing it because we have that document?

4 MR. SMILLIE: No. That they would

5 use that document now as part of the two

6 tiered voting system as a vote on whether

7 it's synthetic or not using this --

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: That would

9 not be appropriate until it comes back to the

10 Program as --

11 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: --

13 accepted.

14 MS. HEINZE: I agree.

15 MR. SMILLIE: Okay. 

16 MS. HEINZE: I don't think that's

17 appropriate we have the guidance document in

18 place.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Oh, I'm

20 sorry. Were you done, Katrina?

21 MS. HEINZE: Yes, thank you.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 298

1 Sorry.

2 MR. DeMURI: Joe, I did reference

3 the classification materials work in the

4 narrative prior to the recommendation. So it

5 is in there.

6 MR. SMILLIE: Oh, okay.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Further

8 debate? 

9 I can't imagine, but conflict of

10 interest? I finally remembered on one that

11 could never matter.

12 Seeing no further debate, we'll

13 call for the vote.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jeff?

15 MR. MOYER: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jay?

17 MR. FELDMAN: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tina?

19 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Tracy?

21 VICE-CHAIRPERSON MIEDEMA: Yes.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 299

1 Smillie?

2 MR. SMILLIE: Yes.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

4 MR. FOSTER: Yes.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Steve?

6 MR. DeMURI: Yes.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Katrina?

8 MS. HEINZE: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe

10 Dickson?

11 MR. DICKSON: Yes.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Barry?

13 MR. FLAMM: Yes.

14 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Annette?

15 MR. RIHERD: Yes.

16 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Jennifer?

17 MR. HALL: Yes.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Wendy?

19 MS. FULWIDER: Yes.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Chair

21 votes yes.

22 One absent, zero no, 14 yes. 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 300

1 Motion passes.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Any

3 further work, Mr. Chairman from the Policy?

4 MR. FLAMM: That completes our

5 work, Mr. Chairman.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: That

7 completes all of the recommendations for

8 voting that we had at this meeting.

9 Well done, everyone, Public,

10 Program, Board, Valerie, the sound man,

11 everybody. Thank you.

12 MR. FLAMM: The internet guy.

13 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Even

14 without the internet.

15 Next on the agenda, one request I

16 think we would like to make, though, is

17 regarding particularly the second vote that we

18 took on the methionine is for the Program to

19 stay in touch with us and to give us feedback

20 as quickly as possible on whether that ship

21 could be sailing or whether we're having an

22 extreme crash and burn. So that the industry
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 301

1 and this Board would be aware of it and be

2 able to deal with that.

3 We only gave that until 2012. If

4 the next step is not going to go through, that

5 is putting the industry again in a petition

6 position of an extremely compromising nature.

7 MR. McEVOY: We will keep you

8 informed through monthly report and other

9 ways.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

11 Okay. We are now up to the point

12 and time of the meeting for the Committee Work

13 Plans.

14 If the Committee Chairman would

15 please get their work plans ready. The

16 practice of the Board is for each Committee to

17 put forth the expected work plan for the next

18 meeting. And we would like to do that at this

19 time.

20 First on the list is, in the order

21 we've going for this meeting, first is Crops

22 with Tina?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 302

1 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes. We have

2 work, and we plan to do it. We have a lot of

3 work and we did in our last Crops Committee

4 meeting briefly go over a work plan.

5 So in addition to the remaining

6 2012 Sunsets, which we have on our work plan

7 for the fall, and in a perfect world we would

8 get all of that done in the fall. We have

9 some petitions we have some comments on. So

10 for petitioning material that we need to act

11 on, we have ethylene glycol, tetramethyl,

12 polycaprolactone. For that we had a draft TR

13 received and we sent it back with additional

14 questions.

15 Tall oils, actually I think that

16 we found TR to be sufficient and we can start

17 to look at that material.

18 Ethylene DDA, difluoroethane we've

19 sent forward for a TR.

20 PGML, propylene glycol

21 monolaurate. We have sent that one forward

22 for a TR.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 303

1 Ferric phosphate to remove. We'll

2 be acting on that petition. And petitions to

3 remove do take priority, so we fully expect to

4 have that ready for the fall. We have tons of

5 information on that.

6 Indole-3butyric acid. We still

7 have not yet received that petition. We

8 received the checklist, but we still don't

9 have that petition in our hand. So that's

10 where we stand on that one.

11 Corn steep liquor, we've talked a

12 lot about that. We found the TR to be

13 insufficient, and we have additional questions

14 to send forward for that. Although they might

15 have already answered those questions, you

16 know, that is a possibility.

17 We have received a petition for

18 nickel which we will review for sufficiency

19 and decide whether we want to send it for TR.

20 And the same for ammonium nonanoate, if I said

21 that correctly.

22 I've already mentioned the Sunset
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 304

1 materials. 

2 And boy, that's pretty much it. 

3 It's an awful lot, but that's what I have

4 unless anyone can remind me of other things.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Nothing

6 for your spare time?

7 SECRETARY ELLOR: We might take

8 on, who knows, food safety, mushroom

9 standards. You just never know.

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. So

11 those are potentials: Food safety and

12 mushrooms standards. Thank you. Having them

13 on your list and not getting to them, it may

14 be better than not listing them and doing it.

15 SECRETARY ELLOR: Yes. It takes a

16 long time to scroll down to get to those.

17 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

18 Livestock Committee. Jeff has been acting as

19 Chair. We'll have you proceed.

20 MR. MOYER: Thank you, Mr.

21 Chairman.

22 The workplan for the Livestock
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 305

1 Committee leading up to the fall meeting will

2 include Sunset materials that were deferred

3 from this meeting for which we are awaiting

4 TRs, the alcohols, aspirin, the chlorine

5 materials, glucose, glycerin, magnesium

6 sulfate, copper sulfate and then as of today

7 fusoremide. 

8 The apiculture, we'll be taking

9 that up.

10 We'll also be revisiting the

11 stocking rate chart that we had, the paper

12 that we had at this meeting. And possibly

13 including a hybrid of that system based on our

14 conversations here that would include maybe

15 some basic minimum numbers and then outcome16 based guidelines for that as well.

17 And then we will also be taking up

18 the discussion document that we had here --

19 I'm sorry. Not the discussion document, but

20 the item that was pulled, which is the

21 definition of animal health care products so

22 we can reformulate that and get that where it
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 306

1 belongs.

2 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

3 Would all the Chairmen please forward a copy

4 of these work plans to Valerie as soon as

5 possible so we can make sure we cross

6 reference the two lists in case she happens to

7 miss one as she's furiously typing?

8 MR. MOYER: Yes.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

10 Handling, Steve.

11 MR. DeMURI: Yes. We have quite a

12 few petition materials that are in various

13 stages of work at this point. We have

14 received tech reviews for a few here in the

15 last month or so.

16 Glucosamine. These are 605 items. 

17 Calcium acid pyrophosphate and sodium acid

18 pyrophosphate, have not received those TRs

19 yet. But if we do, here shortly we'll try to

20 get those in for the fall.

21 Two fairly new ones, attapulgite

22 and silicone dioxide to remove.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 307

1 606 items we have pectin, yeast

2 and hops which are being worked on. Yeast

3 would be a big one. That's a petition to move

4 from 205.605 to 205.606. So that one will get

5 a lot of attention by the Committee over the

6 next few months.

7 And we have four fairly new

8 petitions that we received recently: 

9 Caramunich malt. barley beta fiber, beta

10 carotene and sugar beet fiber. And those

11 would all be related in some respect to the

12 nutrient vitamins and minerals work that we'll

13 be doing.

14 We do have 43 materials for Sunset

15 in fall 2000 that we need to continue on in

16 addition to any comments we might get on what

17 we recommended for this meeting.

18 We have a five 605 items, 12

19 605(b) items and 26 606 items; 19 of those are

20 colors and the colors will take an little

21 extra time because we also do have a petition

22 on colors to change annotation, which
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 308

1 Katrina's working on for the Committee. So

2 that will take up quite a bit of time.

3 And then, of course, we have the

4 nutrient vitamins and minerals guidance or

5 recommendation that we're working with the

6 Program on as we get more information on that.

7 So we have a full docket.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: I'm going

9 to ask you to include one more.

10 MR. DeMURI: Okay. 

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The policy

12 put forth presented by the Program regarding

13 certification of yeast is out. It presents a

14 far number -- it doesn't present the

15 questions, but it certainly raises some

16 questions that may or may not be fully

17 answered within that document. It refers to

18 production standards for yeast, but it doesn't

19 quite explain what they are. It includes that

20 they be following the National List but it

21 doesn't say what section is followed. And it

22 justifies the inclusion the continuance of
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 309

1 yeast to be feed to livestock according to its

2 existing Listing on 605 and that would

3 influence if you changed it to 606, the impact

4 of that effect. That makes the Handling

5 Committee doing a bit of an issue regarding

6 the impact on livestock, which I'm not sure

7 what the best way to handle is. But there are

8 a number.

9 There's also some specific

10 references, at least one I know in the

11 classification of materials documents

12 regarding yeast that I would ask the Committee

13 to include when they're making these

14 considerations, both for petition to change

15 the Listing and the other issues.

16 MR. DeMURI: What would be real

17 helpful for us is if you would put your

18 questions in writing and them to us, and we'll

19 consider those as we go through all this.

20 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Joe, do

21 you have those? Did that send that list to

22 you?
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 310

1 MR. SMILLIE: You did, but not

2 formally.

3 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. I

4 can do it formally. Okay. 

5 MR. SMILLIE: Because some of what

6 you said is going to be part of our

7 deliberation on either the switch for the

8 Listing and some of it isn't.

9 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

10 MR. SMILLIE: And as far a the

11 livestock, I think what would be -- I don't

12 want to do another Joint Committee because

13 those just play hell with our schedule, you

14 know.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. 

16 Agreed.

17 MR. SMILLIE: Those are deadly,

18 deadly things. No offense, Katrina. No

19 offense. I mean, it's just like scheduling20 wise, joint committees are really rough. 

21 But I would propose that we get a

22 representative from the Livestock Committee to
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 311

1 join us when that issue is being discussed. I

2 think that would be a quick efficient way so

3 you guys can decide in the Livestock Committee

4 who you would nominate to be your point

5 liaison when we deal with that issue.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: We'll talk

7 to Kevin on that issue, since he's officially

8 Livestock Chairman.

9 MR. SMILLIE: Yes. Whatever you

10 guys decide is fine.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes. I

12 just think that with these questions that are

13 raised I'm very uncomfortable proceeding with

14 the change of petition ahead of those issues. 

15 If they can be done concurrently, that would

16 be great. But the questions that were raised

17 I think are fairly significant. So --

18 MR. SMILLIE: Well, we also might

19 consider making sure we had the Program

20 involved in that discussion, too, on the

21 specific issue of what their guidance policy

22 is.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 312

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes.

2 MR. SMILLIE: So we'll have to

3 look at that and get it all lined up properly

4 because it's a multifaceted issue, as you have

5 pointed out.

6 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Is that

7 okay, Program, for us to request that you --

8 MR. McEVOY: Yes, that sounds

9 great. Input into the yeast policy would be

10 very helpful.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

12 Okay. That was Handling. Joint

13 Materials and Handling, Katrina?

14 MS. HEINZE: I could not be

15 happier to say that the Joint Committee of

16 Materials & Handling is no longer required. 

17 Any work they have left to do will be rolled

18 into the Materials Committee.

19 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: The Chair

20 concurs.

21 MS. HEINZE: Ay.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Materials,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 313

1 Katrina?

2 MS. HEINZE: Okay. Well, we're

3 short-lived. But I know speaking probably for

4 11 people on the NOSB, we will all be happy to

5 have that extra hour back every week.

6 Okay. The Materials Committee

7 work plan.

8 We have nanotechnology on our work

9 plan. We are hoping to have a recommendation

10 on how to appropriately prohibit

11 nanotechnology in organic for the NOSB's

12 consideration in the fall. So we, hopefully,

13 will have the TR back in time that we can

14 accomplish that, but that is our goal.

15 On classification of materials we

16 will continue work on the draft guidance

17 document taken up from the Joint Committee and

18 with all the useful public comment that we had

19 at this meeting.

20 We will also be working with the

21 NOP on implementation of our November

22 recommendation and the addendum that passed at
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 314

1 this meeting.

2 We have, obviously, quite a bit of

3 work on materials. First we'll be working

4 with the Material Committees; Crops, Livestock

5 and Handling as well as the NP on petitions

6 and TRs just to make sure that everyone's on

7 the same page with what's in queue and to make

8 sure everything's on track and prioritized the

9 way everyone wants it to be.

10 So I run the master list, so the

11 master list will get updated and we'll try to

12 stay on track with that.

13 On Sunset 2012 we'll be monitoring

14 the public comments to that Federal Register

15 notice in collaboration with, again, the

16 Corps, Livestock and Handling Committees.

17 There is a take from the table

18 petition that the NOSB passed several meetings

19 ago that found materials that in times past

20 the NOSB had tabled materials during Board

21 discussion, but had never finished the

22 discussion. So we'll be digging all those out
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 315

1 and figuring what needs to happen with those.

2 Similarly, there were materials

3 that were never on the table but were

4 petitioned and have kind of gotten lost. We

5 need to refine them. We have public comments

6 that we've received over the last several

7 years. And so we'll be collecting the list and

8 working on those, which I know you all are

9 very excited about.

10 On those last two topics, I do

11 envision we'll have to work with the Program

12 on the right way to do this. That our first

13 step would be to contact the petitioners and

14 make sure that they still want us to be

15 working on those materials.

16 And then finally, it is my

17 understanding that the NOP is working on a

18 number of materials related items that they

19 want us to work with them. There is a

20 criteria for a material review program,

21 improvements on the petition process, the

22 quality and timeliness of TRs and then should
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 316

1 any of their guidance work deal with

2 materials.

3 So we will, obviously, be

4 available to work with them as needed on those

5 topics and other material topics as they come

6 up.

7 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

8 Let's see CACC, Joe.

9 MR. SMILLIE: Current work plans,

10 which can always change, would include further

11 guidance. We did, was it two years ago,

12 published a guidance on retailer re13 certification. standards for retailer re14 certification. And we're going to enlarge

15 upon that document. That document was

16 designed originally to be the first step and

17 now we're going to take the second step. 

18 Getting more specific about how guidance for

19 the current regulation to improve both the

20 retailer certification and the understanding

21 of retailer certification and now retailer

22 certification is marketed among other topics.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 317

1 And the second item is it sounds

2 like, although I haven't had a chance to

3 confer with my Committee, but sounds like

4 we're ready to take on round two probably I

5 would think in a recommendation, some guidance

6 on the made with label claim. I think there's

7 enough in that. And again, I didn't say seal. 

8 I said just the made with label claim and how

9 we'd like to create some guidance for that

10 label claim.

11 And, I should add, I have no

12 intention of taking on the 100 percent claim. 

13 So forget about it if you're going to try to

14 get it on our work plan.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: John?

16 MR. FOSTER: I would ask that you

17 look into the transcript and public comment

18 from Patti Bursten about organic integrity

19 opportunities to enhance it. Take that

20 comment and consider adding it to the work

21 plan.

22 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 318

1 Miles?

2 MR. McEVOY: We're looking forward

3 to working with all the various committees on

4 the guidance documents that we'll be putting

5 out this summer. There's a lot of NOSB

6 recommendations that you all have made. We're

7 moving towards putting that in the Program

8 Handbook. And we imagine that we would like

9 to confer with the committee from time-to-time

10 to clarify your recommendations.

11 In addition, I would request that

12 the CACC put on their work plan pesticide

13 residue testing, unannounced inspections, or

14 parameters around unannounced inspections and

15 probably material evaluation programs is

16 mostly relevant to that Committee.

17 These are things that the Program

18 will be working on and we'd really like to

19 work closely with the NOSB as we develop these

20 initiatives.

21 MR. SMILLIE: Could you run

22 through that list again? Pesticide residue
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 319

1 testing?

2 MR. McEVOY: Material evaluation

3 programs, the procedures for what's an

4 acceptable material evaluation program that's

5 evaluating substances and putting them on a

6 list. For instance, the OMRI program, WSTA

7 program. We're getting a lot of requests from

8 various entities. Some are certifiers, some

9 are not certifiers of what makes an

10 appropriate material evaluation program.

11 We have the new California

12 Fertilizer law that's being implemented. They

13 want some kind of official recognition from

14 the NOP for reviewing organic input materials. 

15 We have foreign entities that are

16 looking at approving materials, and they want

17 some kind of acceptance from the NOP that

18 their evaluation programs are sufficient.

19 Long term I think we got to look

20 at adding material evaluation as one of the

21 scopes. We have four scopes currently.

22 So it's just more the long term
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 320

1 initiative, but it's a very important part of

2 this whole organic integrity piece of what

3 materials are approved. Not just on the List

4 but how does an organization evaluate it to

5 see that it actually meets the criteria.

6 MR. SMILLIE: So you're asking us

7 actually to develop some sort of matrix to

8 judge the program it's evaluating, not

9 evaluating the material. We're evaluating the

10 evaluators.

11 MR. McEVOY: Right. Kind of an

12 accreditation criteria for material evaluation

13 program.

14 In addition we would request the

15 Livestock Committee in their animal welfare

16 deliberations to --

17 MR. SMILLIE: You did have -- I

18 thought you had three.

19 MR. McEVOY: Oh, unannounced

20 inspections.

21 MR. SMILLIE: Okay. 

22 MR. McEVOY: Is that enough? 
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 321

1 Okay.

2 Livestock Committee, we'd ask the

3 Livestock Committee to in their animal welfare

4 deliberations to look at slaughtering

5 transport in terms of including that in a

6 comprehensive welfare recommendation. 

7 And I think that's it.

8 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. And

9 we have one more, Policy. Barry?

10 MR. FLAMM: Thank you, Mr. Chair.

11 The Policy Committee has a draft

12 work plan that the Committee has discussed. 

13 And it consists of one new item plus a follow14 up on the discussion items that we presented

15 this week.

16 The new item is a request by the

17 Board Chair for the Policy Committee to look

18 at the ability of the Chair, the Board Chair

19 to establish to create ah hoc committees as

20 the Chair feels necessary. And we have agreed

21 to examine that in the context of our current

22 policy and see whether we think that is a
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 322

1 desirable thing to do.

2 So that's on the top of our list

3 since it came from the Board Chair.

4 But very importantly, and I think

5 Miles' request touches on a topic that was one

6 of our discussion items, that is a portion of

7 our policy and procedure manual dealing with

8 the NOP/NOSB working together or collaboration

9 as it's being called. And we've had some

10 discussions at this meeting with Miles about

11 that and coordinating work plans in a better

12 fashion is one we've already discussed.

13 Another item, and he's already

14 implemented, that was in his having contact

15 points for the committee. But we'll do more

16 work on that and have more discussions and

17 welcome further feedback.

18 The Committee hasn't received very

19 much either from the public or the rest of the

20 Board. So we plan to wrap that up and have a

21 recommendation for the fall meeting.

22 I'm not doing this in the order we
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 323

1 presented it because I'm going to leave a

2 major item to last so we don't squeeze out

3 these other things.

4 But the next item was one that's

5 been raise by a number of people on the

6 previous Board and at various times requested

7 I think by the Program, or at least sort of

8 agreed to by the Program to look into it, and

9 that's the question of whether the rotation or

10 replacement of Board members is now occurring

11 due to events that may have not been fully

12 anticipated when the appointment schedule was

13 first set up.

14 We got almost no public comment on

15 this. About the only ones that do anything,

16 and we didn't get a whole lot more than that

17 from the Board discussion. So it leaves a

18 little dilemma. So I think we need some

19 direction from the Board Chair and the rest of

20 the Board whether we should pursue it.

21 It seemed like coming out of

22 discussion, if I got it right and Tina,
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 324

1 correct me, it seemed like the more concern

2 with how we going forward if there isn't a

3 system to replace people who leave the Board

4 prematurely, rather than trying to fix the

5 schedule now. I sort of got that impression. 

6 I may be wrong.

7 But anyway, Mr. Chair, I think we

8 need some direction on whether you want us to

9 pursue that because it will take some time. 

10 And whether or not the Board really thinks it

11 is an issue that is important. I don't know

12 whether you want to take the time to address

13 that now or we'll just pass on it and maybe at

14 Executive Committee meeting or something,

15 pursue it. But I think our Committee will

16 need some direction on it.

17 And then finally what we consider

18 very important that we have on our draft work

19 plan is the follow through taking the comments

20 we've received on the Sunset policy issues and

21 try to frame that into a recommendation to the

22 Board. You know, we're not pointing him and
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 325

1 suggesting any sort of option right now. The

2 questions were raised about the Policy

3 Committee doing that. And I don't know, Mr.

4 Chair, whether a joint committee is something

5 you want to do, or an ad hoc committee. But

6 right now it's on our work plan to follow up,

7 and we think it's really an important thing to

8 follow up on and to clarify.

9 So that is the status of our draft

10 work plan at this time.

11 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you,

12 Barry.

13 Miles, did you have a comment?

14 MR. McEVOY: Yes. I would say

15 that OFPA is pretty clear about the

16 appointment schedule, that it's a five year

17 appointment. There's only allowed staggered

18 terms when the Board was initially set up. So

19 that I would suggest that you shouldn't spend

20 a lot of time on that since that's a statutory

21 requirement that you are appointed to five

22 year terms. Unless you can get really
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 326

1 creative of working with the statute, it might

2 not be worth the Policy Committee's time to

3 try to address that.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you,

5 Miles.

6 Katrina?

7 MS. HEINZE: I was just going to

8 suggest to Barry on the Sunset if you process

9 it, perhaps you and I, Tom can figure out the

10 most efficient way for our two Committees to

11 work together as opposed to doing a joint

12 committee. I think we could just probably do

13 it through some liaison between the two

14 Committees.

15 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Yes, I

16 would like you to have that conference. I

17 would like, though, also for the Executive

18 Committee to sort of discuss all of these.

19 I think it's very important to

20 remind all the Chairpersons of all the

21 committees and all of the members, and of

22 course respectfully the Program and staff and
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 327

1 everyone else our first and number one job

2 this year, we got the easy stuff, now we got

3 to do the hard stuff. We got the new TRs

4 coming in. We need to get as much done of the

5 2012 Sunset as we possibly can that we don't

6 have to put off to the next spring meeting.

7 So it's very important for even

8 the Committees that are not material review

9 committees, Livestock, Crops and Handling, to

10 keep that in mind. Because all of you, the

11 Chairman and all the members are on those

12 other committees and it's very important that

13 we conquer as much of that mountain as

14 possible for the fall.

15 Joe?

16 MR. SMILLIE: In the spirit of

17 give and take, the Program has got to get the

18 TRs to us in time. This is critical. And the

19 TRs have to meet our needs.

20 We are going to be really

21 hamstrung if we don't get those TRs a lot

22 faster and a lot better than we've been
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 328

1 getting them.

2 MR. McEVOY: I completely agree. 

3 We'll work on it and get them to you in a

4 quality fashion. That's our goal.

5 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you. 

6 I completely agree also, Joe. 

7 Thank you, Miles.

8 So that's one.

9 I want to remind everybody that

10 the Board, Valerie and Miles please stay in

11 this area after the meeting. We'd like to get

12 a Board picture.

13 I have had a couple of requests to

14 consider any alternations and change in

15 committee assignments. That could be somewhat

16 altered now since we do not have the Joint

17 Committee. And that was greatly going to be

18 greatly dependent on sort of what passed and

19 what didn't, what moved ahead and what you

20 still have to work on.

21 So anyone else who is still

22 looking for wanting me to consider any
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 329

1 possible changes in the committee assignments,

2 please get those to me fairly quickly and I'll

3 look those over and see what I can do. 

4 We do have some flexibility as 11

5 of us are now on one less committee. 

6 Steve?

7 MR. SMILLIE: Before we break up,

8 I'd like to invite everybody to the COPAC

9 meeting tomorrow. California Organic Product

10 Advisory Committee meeting. You're laughing.

11 Everybody on the NOSB, everybody

12 in the audience, all Program staff are invited

13 to the COPAC meeting tomorrow. Starts at 9:00

14 a.m. goes until, who knows, maybe 4:00. And

15 it's at the California Department of Food and

16 Ag Building at 1220 N Street, the Main

17 Auditorium in Sacramento. 9:00 a.m.

18 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Thank you.

19 Joe, did you have something?

20 Tina, you had something to add?

21 SECRETARY ELLOR: We all maybe are

22 denying this emotionally, but this Valerie's
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 330

1 last meeting as our leader. And I just want

2 to take a minute to say the work you've done 

3 is beyond extraordinary. But we've heard that

4 we're going to see you again. We've heard

5 you're not leaving the NOP. And I know we're

6 going to take an opportunity to thank you in

7 a more formal way. But speaking from the

8 bottom of my heart you've been terrific.

9 (Applause.)

10 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Before I

11 call on you, Katrina. There's been a couple

12 of times where someone has steered the Chair

13 a little bit. And during the course of these

14 meetings we joke about it a lot. I don't

15 think that there's anything that I'm probably

16 more upset with taking on that -- of co-opted

17 on, but I completely echo that sentiment. I

18 could not have said it better. And thank you

19 for all the wonderful efforts, hard work and

20 dedication you have put on this Board.

21 We came on together. We're one

22 meeting off of going off together. But thanks
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 331

1 for everything.

2 Katrina?

3 MS. HEINZE: I was just going to

4 say that for those in the public who don't

5 really fully appreciate what Valerie does, we

6 talk about the work that the Board has to do;

7 Valerie is on every single NOSB Committee call

8 that we have. She takes the notes. She keeps

9 track of it. She reminds us what we talked

10 about. It is unbelievable. And we'll miss

11 you.

12 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Okay. 

13 Final reminder. The party. South Sacramento. 

14 If you're interested, Bill. 

15 Okay. Any other announcements? 

16 Any other housecleaning? Last call on the

17 reading glasses.

18 Do we have a motion to adjourn

19 this meeting of the National Organics

20 Standards Board?

21 MR. SMILLIE: I move we close this

22 meeting.
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 332

1 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Do we have

2 a second?

3 MR. RIHERD: Second.

4 CHAIRPERSON GIACOMINI: Motion

5 made by Joe Smillie, seconded by Annette.

6 Any objections to the motion to

7 adjourn? Seeing none, we are adjourned.

8 (Whereupon, at 3:25 p.m. the

9 meeting was adjourned.)

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 333

A

ability 223:21

248:10 254:11,13

273:10 289:16

321:18

able 45:2 106:6

114:7 169:2 188:8

199:5 224:22

231:3 236:5

252:10 277:7,17

277:22 279:17

287:11 301:2

abnormal 263:4

above-entitled

76:10 178:12

absent 3:4,8,10,12

3:15,18,19,19,21

3:22 4:2,5,6,8,13

4:17,19 7:9 13:11

13:13 23:12 58:16

64:16 73:10 74:11

91:18,20 122:1

125:3 150:11,14

158:3 165:14

177:18 180:9

182:12 216:20

245:11 260:4

284:7 294:1

299:22

absolutely 74:19

85:16 140:3

202:21 257:13

261:13 288:9

absorb 107:5

abstain 91:18

179:13

abstention 13:13

284:6

abstentions 7:5,17

abuse 110:12

ACA 172:19

173:12

ACAs 174:14,17

221:7

accept 10:1,3,9

17:20 18:7 55:2,9

58:21 65:6,18

81:15,16,21 84:3

90:4 92:20 93:5

105:14,14,22

107:3,8 114:13

119:12 122:15,22

123:4 127:5,11

132:7 137:11

207:19 215:1

218:22 219:6

222:1 229:15

258:4 262:10

266:19 267:11

269:11,14 272:14

278:18 292:12

296:3

acceptable 112:16

112:19 113:3

189:20 204:17

205:11 212:10,10

319:4

acceptance 319:17

accepted 17:22

95:18 113:11

154:11 230:3

297:13

accepting 63:1

122:20 148:15

251:9

accepts 148:18

186:5 258:7

Access 275:5

accessing 41:3

accommodate 8:19

74:19

accomplish 36:5

58:3 83:15 313:14

account 262:6

accreditation 4:14

320:12

Accredited 172:19

accurate 193:19

accurately 15:19

accused 238:4

achieve 24:21

253:22

acid 14:22 118:19

118:20 159:7,18

303:6 306:17,17

acids 15:13 153:21

acknowledge

270:16

act 9:20 56:21 57:1

85:20 148:6 276:6

302:10

acting 77:14 260:7

267:7 303:2

304:18

action 83:1,13

130:1,18 132:2

180:3 279:9 280:2

active 7:11 173:11

actively 172:22

actual 16:14 26:8

ad 325:5

add 40:22 42:1

50:3 59:3 83:15

101:7 104:7,12

109:10,22 111:4

112:21 172:2

200:4 206:13

209:4 220:13

221:2 224:17

270:22 274:21

292:1 317:11

329:20

added 24:14,16

41:9 59:4 61:18

61:22 62:1 138:12

139:4 206:20

207:18 295:9

addendum 4:12

182:2,20 183:15

184:8 313:22

adding 62:8,11

101:7 107:18

118:22 205:14

213:6 239:21

246:18 317:20

319:20

addition 4:18 50:8

108:7 113:12

181:5 185:17

197:15 212:14

302:5 307:16

318:11 320:14

additional 38:22

41:20 98:13

110:22 145:2

164:4 289:13

302:13 303:13

additives 119:6

address 70:12 71:1

87:1 89:22 106:15

106:16 133:6

183:9 199:5

203:13 214:19

254:12,13 255:8,8

324:12 326:3

addressed 72:8

97:20 98:10 263:8

addresses 134:17

adjourn 4:23

331:18 332:7

adjourned 245:17

332:7,9

administer 135:13

142:7

admired 196:12

admittedly 204:16

adopt 226:22

advanced 278:15

advances 17:4

advisor 115:2

Advisory 329:10

aerating 239:5

240:2

aeroponics 67:7

68:14

affect 213:8 242:17

246:20 286:8

affirmative 11:8,20

82:19 133:4

146:21 148:17

258:7 282:12,14

Ag 1:11 329:16

age 6:8 174:5 229:1

agenda 14:2 20:19

23:15 126:21

180:12 257:19

300:15

agent 159:17,18

208:18 227:7,7

239:5

agents 208:1

aging 9:15

ago 169:4 210:7

314:19 316:11

agree 105:6 116:8

143:8 162:22

163:4 203:14

253:14 262:15

280:14 297:14

328:2,6

agreed 74:20 205:5

207:5 246:15

247:8 310:16

321:20 323:8

agreeing 94:5

222:21

agreement 54:2

67:5 128:19

187:10 264:6

agricultural 1:1

158:22 159:1,4,5

159:13,14 165:19

166:2 185:14,20

192:17 194:8

198:2,8 201:12

203:20 204:8,14

211:4 213:22

agriculture 1:1

21:3 38:11 45:18

ah 150:13 321:19

ahead 53:15 75:5

88:5 152:7 163:6

178:2,7,7,18,21

180:15 193:8

238:6 246:6

311:14 328:19

aid 154:2,4 203:3

219:22 220:1,3

221:7,12 222:4,14

222:19 223:5,15

226:9,10 227:22

229:2,12 230:5,6

230:8 238:12,14

239:2,16 240:5

242:15
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 334

aids 218:8,9 227:9

228:16 239:13

air 266:21 290:4

alcohols 305:4

algicide 14:15

algicides 14:12

alginates 159:15

allow 41:4 58:2,2

122:13 132:2

143:21,21 156:11

190:15 224:18

234:5 237:16

allowability 209:9

allowable 188:22

262:21

allowance 69:13

allowed 14:6 17:22

39:11,17,21 42:13

43:2 45:22 46:2

48:20 49:2,18

56:6 62:3,4,7,18

67:8 96:8 104:2

109:10 139:20

140:21,22 141:1,2

141:5 142:8,9

144:9 153:18

158:10,13,16

161:3,4 165:19

174:11 185:18,20

195:16,20,20

200:5 202:6 204:7

204:9,10 208:9,21

220:11 224:4

226:13 244:22

247:5 325:17

allowing 209:11

234:10

allows 184:5

alluding 266:21

alter 147:9

altered 6:20 328:16

alternations 328:14

alternative 83:14

97:5

alternatives 17:9

85:19 86:2,11

196:10 256:18,21

257:17

amalgamated

71:10

amazingly 180:13

amend 92:5 100:8

104:7 105:1,1,22

106:3,21 107:17

246:15 251:5,14

258:3 271:7,15

281:1,15 285:1,14

286:17

amended 97:3

250:22 251:11,16

amending 80:20

amendment 54:21

100:3 105:7,14,18

107:4,13,15,22

112:21 113:12

114:13 115:15,19

127:13 130:3

148:16,19 151:18

186:5 199:17

229:7,16 230:3

246:13 248:3

254:10,15 255:5

256:10 265:1,7,7

266:18 267:11

269:4,6,8,12

271:20

amendments 15:12

196:2

American 264:7

amiss 77:17

ammonia 14:20

ammonium 14:22

159:16,17 303:20

amount 81:4 87:13

99:3 169:9 253:11

amounts 99:4,19

288:3,4

AMS 1:1

analgesics 139:14

analog 81:1,2 92:7

92:8 281:3,3

285:2,3

analyzed 82:14

and/or 166:14

183:1

anesthetic 119:2

animal 3:24 4:2

14:19 85:11 125:9

126:3,21 131:15

132:4 134:20

135:1 142:17

143:11 167:21

305:21 320:15

321:3

animals 140:10

143:4,12 146:11

Annette 1:23 12:7

19:6 23:8 64:7

74:3 75:17 91:8

116:10 121:3

124:11 149:17

157:6 164:16

176:17 179:6,8

215:8 243:10

258:12 284:2,14

293:17 299:14

332:5

annotation 80:20

81:15,17,21 84:7

90:5 110:6,11,17

110:21 111:1,10

113:1,14 143:19

162:10,12 254:12

254:13,17 255:8,9

256:4 262:20,22

266:5 273:9

275:12,19 277:13

281:15 285:15

286:18 287:5

291:22 292:6,13

307:22

annotations 110:10

118:3 160:22

275:13 289:14

announce 77:6

announcement

76:19

announcements

331:15

anonymously

58:10

ANPR 175:19

answer 42:17 55:16

98:4 131:20

132:21 139:18

170:21 198:19

219:17 237:8,21

261:4 266:16

267:10

answered 287:12

303:15 308:17

answers 107:11

189:4

antibiotics 134:8,9

anticipated 323:12

anti-foaming 227:7

anti-inflammatory

135:5

anti-synthetic

257:15

anybody 34:13

40:21 99:20

129:21 153:12

255:11

anymore 214:2

256:22 268:1

anyway 51:6 324:7

apiculture 305:8

apologize 9:4

139:11 224:21

237:18

apologizes 126:12

apparently 207:13

224:6 231:15

233:17

appear 24:3 83:17

83:18

Appendix 43:3

Applause 330:9

applicability

184:16

applicable 14:17

46:5 118:7 185:21

application 196:9

221:8

applications 197:1

applied 195:3

200:14,20 204:1

applies 186:2

apply 18:16 201:3

appointed 325:21

appointment

323:12 325:16,17

appreciate 84:15

84:18 96:10 97:14

175:13 180:2

210:1 217:8 294:8

294:11,11 331:5

approach 187:21

appropriate 77:5

111:5 126:5

135:10 151:1,3

182:16 195:22

243:3 278:9,10

297:9,17 319:10

appropriately

232:19 313:10

approval 45:9

approve 84:21

119:8 152:3

approved 38:10

39:1 48:16 58:10

182:9 188:1

204:18 205:9

209:5 218:13

320:3

approving 45:12

187:11,13 226:9

319:16

APRIL 1:8

Aquatic 15:12

Arabic 166:10

arbitrariness

267:14

arbitrary 266:20

267:8 268:1

area 30:4 95:15

175:4 237:19

328:11

areas 183:9,18

arena 95:5 96:13

97:10

argon 231:5

arguing 27:8

argument 227:21
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 335

228:11

arrive 178:11

arrived 217:16

arsenic 21:3

Arthur 2:16 26:7

34:14 40:6 41:7

53:12,14 54:10

110:9 112:6 148:8

183:14 265:21

266:21 273:1

Arthur's 38:6

articulated 95:11

artificial 254:19

artificially 255:12

ascorbic 159:18

Ash 21:3

aside 118:11,13

asked 16:18 39:5

67:10 77:4 103:2

103:5 125:10

158:5 171:13

182:14,17 183:10

199:4 210:7

214:15 260:18

261:8 269:11,13

288:6

asking 13:15 102:8

102:9 151:19

182:20 210:2

212:4 290:17

297:1 320:6

asks 183:6

aspect 234:14

aspirin 305:4

assembled 25:21

asserts 11:21

assessment 96:3

assignments

328:15 329:1

associated 255:3

associates 250:9

Association 172:19

assuming 26:17

assumption 224:1

assurance 256:1

atmospheric 4:15

218:3 219:1,8

226:11 231:4

232:18 237:5

atropine 118:7

attached 45:10

attapulgite 306:21

attempt 255:17,21

261:3

attempts 228:5

attention 6:18

13:21 161:16

307:5

audience 6:5 62:15

82:4 168:15,17

329:12

Auditorium 329:17

August 276:3

authority 95:15

181:5 220:20

254:16

availability 166:1

169:1 170:11

171:10 174:3,20

175:1 184:16

available 8:11

135:8 171:19

174:17 218:20

316:4

avenues 253:2

261:17

average 81:6 288:7

aversion 71:2 85:5

avoiding 191:1

awaiting 305:3

aware 44:12 152:1

184:9,14 301:1

awful 16:1 304:3

awkward 109:3

Ay 312:21

aye 115:6

ayes 115:7

A-F-T-E-R-N-O-...

246:1

a.m 1:11 5:2 76:9

76:11 178:13,14

329:14,17

B

b 142:4

back 5:5 16:1,2

17:3,9 33:14

53:20 54:4 60:7

62:16 76:13,17

89:10 94:6 96:16

99:18 100:13

108:11 114:2,7

130:11 132:6,11

139:4 147:5,11

168:4 178:8 179:3

180:14 183:17

195:6,13 202:9

234:11,11 245:14

250:22 257:20

260:13,18 266:1

276:15 295:15

297:9 302:13

313:5,13

backed 253:4

background

275:17 289:4

backtrack 179:6

backup 218:19

270:4

bacteria 211:7

bad 178:7 255:18

bag 239:21

bait 83:18

baked 207:19

baking 201:21

204:2

balance 190:20,22

191:15 193:22

194:2 262:5

barley 307:9

barriers 14:17 15:5

Barry 1:19 7:21

12:5 20:9 23:6

64:5 74:1 91:6

112:19 116:7

121:1 124:9 129:5

137:3 149:15

152:2 157:4

164:14 176:15

197:12 198:20

215:5 243:8 260:1

283:22 284:13

293:15 294:16,22

296:10 299:12

321:9 325:12

326:8

Barry's 203:13

based 29:3 31:11

32:10 33:13 35:20

41:4 79:17 197:2

206:22 220:16

274:18 305:13,16

bases 270:8

basic 305:15

basically 18:17

30:13 31:4 147:3

290:6

basis 98:12 99:4,6

bay 166:16

bean 166:11,11,15

beat 69:9

beaten 209:15

beauties 193:21

beautify 226:18

becoming 201:13

202:10

beef 131:7 168:21

beet 307:10

beg 282:10

beginning 63:4

112:11 282:3

behalf 270:17

behaved 192:9

behavior 237:11,12

belief 203:7,8

believe 15:18 87:10

95:19 105:18

114:9 134:16

168:17 188:12

189:10 192:7

193:18,20,22

194:14,18 197:4

205:10,10 212:15

214:7 219:20,20

227:2 228:9

242:16 243:18

254:6 276:3 280:4

believer 262:19

belongs 126:1,3

306:1

beneficial 25:11

benefit 197:14

217:6 236:5

bentonite 153:21

Berry 113:5 152:3

210:2

best 35:13,16 61:9

68:11 173:2

174:18 210:6

242:6 256:4,15

257:19 280:2

284:21 289:19

309:7

beta 307:9,9

better 61:8 96:1

97:12 108:19

111:15 174:3,4

199:6 202:15

203:9 205:19

208:18 234:12

252:22 304:14

322:11 327:22

330:18

beyond 102:18

131:11 135:19

249:19 330:3

bicarbonate 15:10

154:6 159:16

big 201:8 307:3

bigger 195:12

234:3

biggest 213:16

214:8

Bill 77:3 331:14

biologics 118:7

142:5

bird 81:8 261:8

272:7 288:7

birds 257:8,8,10

261:19 262:9

bird's 262:2

bit 26:9 33:16

71:22 178:3 179:4

179:5 181:9 197:5

274:22 308:2
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 336

309:5 314:2

330:13

blah 202:3,3,3

blank 8:5

blanket 234:20

bloviating 61:3

blow 236:18

Blowing 240:11

Boar 38:10

board 1:5,10 5:5,5

5:10 6:10,15 7:5

7:19 9:18 18:16

25:3 28:7 29:4

32:12 33:2 34:7

35:6 38:2 41:9

44:21 45:2,8,11

45:18 46:3,15,16

47:1 52:20 54:17

54:20 59:19,21,22

65:7 75:15 78:14

82:5,17,22 83:1

83:10,13,21 94:19

94:21 95:16,19

96:13 105:19

107:4 111:17

120:3 125:22

129:11 133:11

163:12 172:11

178:19 181:10,17

182:5 185:6 186:5

187:20 194:14,15

196:4 200:5 221:1

221:20 225:18

246:4 248:1 249:6

250:21 252:9

254:5,16 255:6,10

269:5 272:22

273:21 274:5

278:7 294:4 295:9

295:11 300:10

301:1,16 314:20

321:17,18 322:3

322:20 323:6,10

323:17,19,20

324:3,10,22

325:18 328:10,12

330:20 331:6,20

Boards 96:21 141:7

192:3 217:6

252:11 254:11

256:1

Board's 34:22 36:9

225:15 269:6

bonds 205:15

boost 265:2,5

boosting 260:21

boric 14:22

boron 15:14

botanical 211:18

212:21

bottle 222:6 223:5

223:12 224:9,15

227:22

bottom 58:12 330:8

box 34:4

boy 241:11 304:2

BRADLEY 2:17

Bravo 185:1

bread 207:17,17,22

207:22 208:14

break 76:4,7,13

77:9 88:8 110:18

150:19 151:16

178:6,17,21

245:14 329:7

breaks 179:1

breather 114:1

breeds 95:4

brief 30:18

briefly 24:5 70:11

78:9 264:3 302:4

BRINES 2:21

bring 13:20 25:4

78:6 88:7 147:11

178:4,8 184:1

195:6 210:3

brings 24:4 135:4

263:1

broad 134:11

broader 136:3

broiler 81:9 92:13

92:17 103:10,11

265:2,11,15 281:8

285:6

broilers 260:22

261:6 265:4

267:18,19,21

272:2 282:18

brought 5:11 88:7

180:7 221:9,13

bubble 240:9,17

bubbling 237:13

240:11

Buddhist 194:16

Building 329:16

built 257:3

bunch 67:15

288:19

burden 96:16,18

97:4 111:21

burdensome

190:21

burn 300:22

burning 21:3

Bursten 317:18

business 4:22 75:2

78:4 178:19 179:6

butrophanol 118:8

buy 169:12 170:22

bylaw 82:12

B1 15:17

C

C 15:17

CAC 217:15,17

219:7

CACC 316:8

318:12

calcium 15:1 81:2

92:8 153:22,22

158:14 159:19,19

281:4 285:3

306:17

calculated 81:6

California 1:12

319:11 329:9,15

call 26:13 54:13

68:20,21 148:11

148:14 174:8

187:15 204:14,14

205:12 221:11

222:19 229:1

256:9 298:13

330:11 331:7,16

called 190:17

289:21 322:9

calling 52:10 71:2

148:13 204:20,22

205:1,6 228:22

calls 74:18 82:22

220:3

calves 146:16

camp 146:22

Canada 67:5 71:15

264:3,6

Canada's 72:14

Canadian 70:13

71:1

cap 222:7 223:13

224:9,15 233:10

capture 30:2 44:8

231:10 270:7

captured 15:18

captures 184:6

Caramunich 307:9

carbon 158:15

241:1

carbonate 14:22

153:22 154:6

158:21 159:7,17

carbonates 15:14

care 3:24 4:2 125:9

126:21 140:14

142:3 223:2

305:21

careful 10:21

233:15

carnauba 154:7

carob 166:11

carotene 307:10

carrageenan 154:1

carrot 219:18

220:7 223:18,20

224:5 228:2

carry 62:16

case 52:5 111:19

132:5 181:9 224:3

224:6,14 240:1

288:17 306:6

cases 141:18,18

206:1,2

Casing 166:5

casings 167:21

168:17 175:12,14

catch 126:17

139:17

catch-22 95:11

97:1

categories 31:4

96:7 265:5

category 14:8,12

14:16,19,21 15:6

15:11 21:1 122:10

238:19 270:6

cause 179:3 202:19

caution 266:3

CBI 44:19 45:7

celebrate 76:21

celery 166:6

cell 6:8

Center 1:12 8:12

8:18

centrally 8:22

certain 25:21 99:11

134:13,14 169:9

214:10

certainly 16:2

137:21 142:22

174:20 182:7

191:18 209:16

261:16 270:9

275:22 294:6

308:15

certainty 189:2

certification 4:14

172:19 228:14

308:13 316:13,14

316:20,21,22

certified 161:19

170:2 174:15

175:5 198:4,6

206:3,4,7,8,12,14

certifier 171:11

221:11

certifiers 166:2
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 337

172:13,22 173:8

174:22 175:5

192:4 226:22

319:8,9

CFR 33:9 92:5

218:10 239:11

281:1 285:1

chain 222:16

223:22 226:14

Chair 23:10 36:21

64:11 74:9,15

77:14 91:16

115:12 116:5

117:13 121:22

125:1 129:9

152:10 155:8

158:2 165:12

177:16 201:5

216:19 221:4

244:1 245:9 256:9

267:7 268:5,10

272:19 273:2

282:6 284:4

291:16 293:22

299:20 304:19

312:19 321:10,17

321:18,18,20

322:3 323:19

324:7 325:4

330:12

Chairman 6:16,18

13:22 33:14 55:6

64:22 77:16 78:5

78:16 80:9 89:17

91:22 93:10 96:10

114:12 117:18,21

122:3,5,19 125:5

125:8 158:6

165:16 177:21

180:19 181:1

260:6,7 284:20

294:16 300:3,5

301:14 304:21

311:8 327:11

Chairmen 151:11

306:3

Chairperson 1:13

1:15 5:3 8:21

9:10,22 10:7,16

11:3,7,12,19 12:3

12:7,9,11,13,15

12:17,19,21 13:1

13:3,5,7,9 16:9,13

16:17,20 17:11,14

18:6,12,20 19:8

19:10,12,14,16,18

19:20,22 20:2,4,6

20:9 21:10,14,21

22:4,6,8,10,12,14

22:16,19,21 23:1

23:3,6,8,10 27:3

31:13 34:14 36:16

36:20 38:19 39:4

39:8,14,19,22

40:3 41:16 42:7

44:2,5 46:11,18

46:22 47:5 54:14

55:7,14 56:18

57:19,22 58:17

59:1,22 61:1,13

62:21 63:6,8,10

63:12,14,17,20,22

64:2,5,7,9,11

65:10,17 66:3

69:4 70:9,17

71:18 72:11,21

73:5,7,9,13,16,18

73:20 74:1,3,5,7,9

75:4,22 76:6,12

77:17 78:15,18

79:1,4,18,22 80:5

80:12,14 81:14,18

81:20 84:6,22

86:21 87:18 88:3

88:17,19 89:2,7

89:11,14 90:2,8

90:10,12,17,20,22

91:2,5,8,10,12,14

91:16 93:2,11

97:15 98:3,9,16

98:20 100:12,18

101:6,15,20 102:2

102:7,11,16,19

103:4,7,16,21

104:1,6,10,13

105:2,10,20 106:2

106:12,18,20

107:2,7,10,16,21

108:5,9,13,20

109:16 112:4,8,15

113:7,9 114:14,20

115:8,11,16 116:1

116:5,10,12,14,16

116:18,20,22

117:2,4,6,8,10,13

119:11 120:1,8,10

120:13,16,18,20

121:1,3,5,7,9,11

121:13,16,20

122:18 123:2,10

123:15,18,21

124:1,3,6,9,11,13

124:15,17,19,21

125:1,12,18

126:11 127:7,10

127:17,20 128:10

128:14,17 129:5

130:2 131:17

132:10 133:8,12

133:16 134:15

135:15 137:3,7,18

138:4,10,13,16

139:6,10 140:15

141:15,17 142:2

143:14 144:2,6,11

144:17 145:7,17

146:13 147:1,7

148:1,4,7,10,12

149:2,5,8,10,12

149:15,17,19,21

150:1,3,5,7,9,13

151:8,14 154:13

154:20 155:1,8,16

155:22 156:5,8,14

156:19,21 157:1,4

157:6,8,10,12,14

157:16,18,20

158:1 160:1,9

161:9 162:4,9,19

163:2,10,21 164:3

164:9,11,14,16,18

164:20,22 165:2,4

165:6,8,10,12

166:21 167:3,6,18

172:3,10 175:9

176:6,12,15,17,19

176:21 177:1,3,5

177:7,9,12,14,16

178:1,15 179:16

180:6,17,20

186:11,19 193:10

195:1,15,19 196:7

197:12 199:7,13

200:22 201:4

202:20 203:10

207:11 209:14,22

210:16 213:13,21

214:21 215:5,8,10

215:13,16,18,20

215:22 216:2,4,7

216:10,12,14

217:1,12,21 219:5

219:12 220:18

221:5,18 222:2,3

222:9 224:20

225:3,10,21 226:5

227:11 228:18

229:4,8,14,20

230:2,7,12,18

232:5,22 234:16

235:6,16,20 236:7

238:1,3 241:11,20

242:5,19 243:2,6

243:8,10,12,14,16

243:22 244:3,8,10

244:12,14,17,21

245:2,4,6,9 246:3

246:21 247:3,7,12

248:17 250:3,19

251:4,10,13,18,22

252:18 256:7,11

258:1,14,16,18,22

259:3,6,8,10,12

259:14,16,18,20

260:1,3,9 262:13

262:17 264:9,12

264:15,19 265:17

265:21 267:12

268:6,13,16,22

269:10,15,17,22

270:15 271:5,9,12

271:17 272:4,15

274:19 275:21

277:20 279:3,12

279:16 280:1,7,11

280:13,17 281:11

281:14 282:1,5,14

283:1,3,5,7,9,12

283:15,17,19,22

284:2,4,13,16

285:9,13,20 286:1

286:5,11 288:2

289:7,20 290:12

291:5,12,22 292:4

292:9,11,16,18,20

292:22 293:2,5,8

293:10,12,15,17

293:19,21 294:7

294:10 296:2,9,16

296:21 297:8,12

297:19,22 298:7

298:14,16,18,20

298:22 299:3,5,7

299:9,12,14,16,18

299:20 300:2,6,13

301:10 304:5,10

304:17 306:2,9

308:8,11 309:20

310:3,9,15 311:6

311:11 312:1,6,11

312:19,22 316:7

317:15,22 321:8

325:11 326:4,15

328:5 329:18

330:10 331:12

332:1,4

Chairpersons

326:20

Chairs 7:1 181:4

challenge 95:20

188:16 193:7

challenged 274:4

274:11

challenges 71:13

275:16
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 338

challenging 175:4

chance 52:7 77:9

210:10 266:17

317:2

chances 57:17

change 28:1 30:11

31:7 35:3,8 54:16

57:14 58:13 60:14

71:12 81:15,17,22

82:12 84:7 90:5

94:11,12 130:3

145:5 147:20

162:12 163:8

178:6 179:13

181:20 182:3,9,9

182:15,18 183:1,5

183:20 184:19

185:4,7 186:2

192:19 194:7

197:20 198:10

200:9,17 201:16

203:4 205:18

208:8 211:11

212:16 213:3,3

219:16 220:5,16

225:13 228:20

229:9,10 230:4

233:18 236:20

237:7 242:12,14

254:15,17 260:18

262:21 276:21

277:12 285:14

288:6 292:1,12

307:22 309:14

311:14 316:10

328:14

changed 24:12 25:8

31:20 40:17 47:20

201:18 213:17,22

225:14 309:3

changeover 67:20

changes 5:22 6:19

24:8 54:21 55:1

58:21 60:12 65:7

65:8 78:12 95:3,3

95:4 127:1 181:22

184:1 192:8 196:2

196:17 218:18

266:10,11 295:3

295:18 329:1

changing 203:5

205:14 218:17

channeling 150:18

150:21

ChapStick 179:9

character 136:21

characterize 138:8

146:10

characterized

188:19

chart 305:11

checked 76:15

checklist 303:8

checklists 270:6

cheese 204:21

208:15

chelate 212:6

chemical 184:19

185:7 186:2

197:20 198:10,10

200:16 205:15

213:2 255:4,16

chemicals 189:19

190:5

chemistry 232:8,9

chew 210:10

chia 166:6

chicken 264:8

chickens 81:9,10

92:12,13,17

103:12 253:10,16

257:13 258:21

265:3,11,14,15

267:5 281:8,8

285:6

chicks 103:10

chile 166:13

chilling 202:2

chipotle 166:13

chlorahexidine

118:8

chloride 21:4

153:22 154:5

159:2

chlorine 305:4

choose 33:7 236:6

Chorus 115:7,10

chosen 248:21

churning 201:22

204:2

citrate 159:8,19

citrus 158:18

claim 223:16 224:4

235:14,17 236:6

317:6,8,10,12

clarification 10:18

12:2 18:15 27:9

40:8 42:9 47:19

62:14 69:19 84:11

84:16,19 103:2

110:4 160:14

219:14 226:4

250:20 251:21

clarified 227:3

clarifies 68:13

148:2

clarify 11:18 27:21

56:2 82:2 108:22

110:7 237:22

291:20 318:10

325:8

clarifying 133:22

147:6 174:22

clarity 109:6

224:17

classic 173:19

classical 189:22

classification 4:12

53:2 126:22

162:14 181:2

183:12 186:3

192:16 210:13

212:5 216:15

296:14 298:3

309:11 313:15

classified 192:3,6

198:16 207:1

classify 192:1

211:10

cleaned 76:18

cleaner 163:6

cleaning 14:14

clear 37:1 42:5,13

42:17 45:21 52:1

54:5 56:20 62:12

68:5 72:13,19

85:4 86:17 95:14

108:7,16,19

110:15 129:8,14

139:12 140:12

187:6 192:20

196:16 232:15

235:19 236:3

241:22 242:8

243:5 325:15

cleared 137:6

clearly 110:13

111:1 131:4 145:8

161:5 198:13

225:9 250:10,14

close 74:17 179:21

331:21

closely 129:13

318:19

closer 178:11

closest 82:6,9

clouding 196:15

coatings 17:4

cobalt 15:16

code 190:2

Codex 160:20

274:3

codify 95:17

codifying 209:11

coffee 8:10,17

collaboration

314:15 322:8

collaborative 184:1

collaboratively

183:8

collecting 315:7

color 193:14

colors 307:20,20,22

come 30:19 37:6

44:18 45:8 76:1

89:9 97:5 99:2

114:2,7 132:6,11

161:16 176:3

199:15 201:7

203:1 210:8 231:2

237:21 253:13

256:21 257:4

267:2,6,8 275:10

277:9 288:22

316:5

comes 6:22 45:22

109:11 143:10

145:15 189:14

237:10 239:3

297:9

comfortable 34:3

85:8 199:10

241:14 287:21,22

coming 146:14

151:5 179:3

182:10 187:7

194:6 247:14

249:14 252:6

266:1 323:21

327:4

comma 112:14

comment 5:20

21:19 26:7 45:7

67:18 97:18 129:2

130:22 131:1

132:14 139:2,3

175:20 185:13,16

193:8 197:6 201:2

211:16 223:4,9

262:7 268:7,12

288:11 291:13

313:18 317:17,20

323:14 325:13

commentator

220:13

comments 5:15

9:19 18:10 29:4

68:2,5 72:22

89:15,19 100:2

128:1 129:11,12

160:10 176:2

193:2,16 195:14

203:14 219:13

253:6,9 262:7

296:10 302:9
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 339

307:16 314:14

315:5 324:19

commercial 166:1

171:10 174:2,20

175:1 184:16

committee 3:2,14

3:17 4:4,14,18,21

5:19 9:10 10:10

14:9 20:22 34:6

35:22 36:17,20

46:14,18,21 47:6

47:10 51:21 52:19

52:21 54:17 56:20

56:22 57:1 58:6,8

58:14 59:19 63:3

65:21 67:2 69:6

69:10 71:11 75:2

77:16 78:8 80:18

82:15 87:9 88:13

89:17 92:1,3,4,22

93:6,14 94:2

98:17 118:10,16

120:5 125:10

126:8,12 127:1,12

129:9,13 133:5

134:3,6 137:4

138:18 147:9,12

148:16 151:13

152:11,18 153:7

160:4 168:7 176:1

178:4 180:17,21

181:6 182:11

185:17 186:14

195:4 196:1,4

199:8,14 203:22

207:5 211:3,12

212:15 214:16

215:2 217:11

249:5,8,13,16

250:2 251:2 254:4

254:21 256:3,14

257:18 260:7,12

261:4,19 262:6,14

263:6 264:22

265:6 266:16,22

267:7 268:7 269:3

269:4,11 270:4,10

270:17 279:19,22

280:3 294:5,16

295:2,18 296:4,13

301:12,14,16

302:3 304:18

305:1 307:5 308:1

309:5,12 310:12

310:22 311:3

312:15,18 313:6

313:17 317:3

318:9,16 320:15

321:2,3,11,12,17

322:15,18 324:14

324:15 325:3,4,5

326:12,18 328:15

328:17 329:1,5,10

331:7

committees 4:11

5:12,12 6:16

67:19 310:20

314:4,16 318:3

321:19 326:10,14

326:21 327:8,9,12

Committee's 36:6

52:11 80:10 84:8

84:20 119:13

122:7,12,16,22

123:5 126:20

127:6 203:8

228:20 248:20

250:5,17 251:7

326:2

commodity 204:8

204:14,15

communicate

252:11

communicating

111:1

community 68:10

72:19 96:17 97:11

139:1 172:15

173:1 187:18,20

210:21 253:15,20

289:2

company 155:5

179:18

compared 224:16

compatible 72:14

compensates 85:7

competition 173:4

173:6

competitors 173:12

complaint 173:10

complete 38:2

131:20 132:21

177:20 284:9

285:21

completed 246:5

completely 31:20

33:17 74:14 99:12

130:7,9,13 132:1

148:21 236:22

253:8 328:2,6

330:17

completes 118:21

300:4,7

complexity 220:14

287:4

Compliance 4:14

complicated 71:11

196:12 219:21

275:11 290:10

component 212:9

components 32:13

188:10

comprehensive

321:6

compromise 89:18

255:17

compromising

301:6

computer 28:9,19

conceived 95:17

concept 191:12

concern 56:5 68:1

183:9,19 188:14

252:11 268:18

273:15 276:7

288:14 294:14

324:1

concerned 113:19

263:12,14 273:6

276:8

concerning 161:12

concerns 15:22

67:1 268:19

275:16

conclude 217:3

294:3

concludes 75:1

152:8 217:10

concur 196:6

205:11

concurrently

311:15

concurs 312:20

conditions 134:13

conduct 77:21

150:20

confer 317:3 318:9

conference 326:16

confident 221:6

287:9

conflict 13:17

20:13 64:13,18

66:6,7 73:1 90:13

91:19 124:6 150:9

154:22 155:1

235:21 243:19

244:1,20 272:18

282:6 298:9

conflicts 13:15

20:14 22:2,3

121:14,18 150:10

155:11 164:4

176:9 216:15

243:16 258:18

291:15

conformance 44:14

conforms 44:9

confused 59:18

129:7

confusing 84:16

confusion 33:16

connection 179:14

conquer 327:13

consequence

192:14

consequences 37:2

38:5 205:22

consider 13:16

53:8 138:1 152:11

152:14 221:7

222:13 265:1,6

309:19 311:19

317:20 324:17

328:14,22

considerable

185:13

consideration 5:17

6:12 7:17 9:3

24:7 61:6 129:18

133:1 209:17

225:6 290:19

313:12

considerations

309:14

considered 7:9

16:4 137:5 163:13

194:22 268:1

276:16

considering 61:19

188:1 296:13

considers 218:16

consistency 183:12

203:3,6 228:9

230:16

consistent 109:21

110:2 174:18

175:4 197:1

207:15 208:4,12

208:12 237:11,12

consists 321:13

consolidation

152:14

constantly 95:20

constitutes 68:19

constriction 264:1

consumer 291:7,10

consumers 264:7

consuming 189:17

contact 315:13

322:14

contacted 169:4

contacting 6:10

container 67:11

68:19,21

Containers 3:12
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 340

65:3,20 71:4

contains 144:8

205:2

content 71:20 72:2

context 44:22 71:8

72:4 126:1,10

134:4 144:5

190:13 193:17

195:12 196:18

203:16 221:12,15

222:5 231:8

242:22 321:21

continuance

308:22

continue 37:22

122:13 184:14

225:11,22 246:7

250:7 253:18

254:2 307:15

313:16

continued 111:20

248:4 257:14

265:20

continuing 254:7

continuously

249:14

contribute 248:10

control 15:7 208:18

211:13 238:4

255:14

controls 211:19

controversial

161:15 254:21

255:16

controversy 255:4

convened 1:11

conventional 173:7

174:10 188:22

193:18

conversation 42:10

252:4

conversations

52:18 183:14

210:3 305:14

convert 194:10

292:1

cooking 201:20

cooperation 278:6

cooperative 170:9

coordinating

322:11

COPAC 329:8,13

copper 15:15 305:6

copy 306:3

corn 206:9 303:11

Corp 3:8 20:21

75:2

Corps 3:2 199:8

314:16

correct 11:4 27:12

27:15,18 32:9

35:1,21 36:19

37:7 38:12 40:15

42:3 43:4,7 47:15

47:16,17 48:10,14

48:17,22 49:3,11

50:21 55:20 59:13

69:12,21 78:21

85:17,21 86:19

88:10,11 94:8

103:6 104:4 105:8

107:19,20 108:12

108:14,14,18

132:9 133:3,8,9,9

137:14 138:3,22

149:1 163:14

226:3 231:3

235:15 237:2

251:3 252:13,16

324:1

correction 138:1

160:15

corrections 6:1

correctly 21:9

146:11 223:4

303:21

corrects 192:14

counsel 261:18

count 64:15

counted 7:7,8,10

counter 197:5

counter-philosop...

195:21

couple 98:21

179:19 184:8

218:6 328:13

330:11

course 67:20 77:22

79:12 129:22

158:4 161:6 272:9

277:11 308:3

326:22 330:13

cover 227:17

covering 67:8

covers 17:2,8

cows 144:19 227:16

cow's 214:12

Co-Chairs 180:22

co-opted 330:16

CO2 236:20 237:3

craft 256:3

CRAIL 2:18

crash 300:22

create 27:11 28:16

94:22 95:7 99:6

194:10 201:17

202:8 206:17

227:5 255:22

317:9 321:19

created 52:21

197:16 201:19

254:22 263:3

creates 68:17 228:6

228:7 242:11

creating 24:15

204:19 205:3,4

206:18

creation 25:1

creative 326:1

criteria 44:10 46:5

270:5 274:15

315:20 320:5,12

critical 34:18

110:11 193:3

327:18

criticisms 66:11

crop 14:6 17:22

59:8 132:18 170:9

crops 9:9 10:10

14:9 63:2 64:20

65:2,21 71:8

185:22 198:22

199:3,14,17,21,22

200:1,5,7,10,14

200:20 201:3

202:6 210:21

211:2 213:16

301:21 302:3

314:4 327:9

cross 306:5

crossroads 188:7

191:21 192:8

197:6,9

cultural 158:10

cultures 154:1

curing 201:21

curious 33:18

116:2 168:10

current 32:15

39:12,18 41:18

109:17,21 112:22

113:13 141:13,18

141:19,21 202:16

203:2,2 276:22

280:3 286:13

316:9,19 321:21

currently 39:6,11

39:15,16,17,21

45:7 62:3 75:5

144:22 170:18

213:4 287:8

319:21

curve 191:3,4

cut 202:9 252:5,8

252:10 267:17

279:1 292:3,7

cutting 202:1

281:17

cut-off 85:13

cycle 257:6

C-O-N-T-E-N-T-S

3:1 4:1

D

dairy 131:11,11

142:10 154:1

Dan 9:11 10:17

16:16 62:13 133:3

143:18 147:19

150:12 163:5

199:12 204:3

236:13 250:21

267:3 276:19

dance 77:1 225:2

dandy 230:21

Daniel 1:12,15

data 220:17

database 171:14,16

174:8

date 58:1 85:13

88:14 104:14,17

111:6 188:2 249:1

252:5,8,10 279:1

279:14 286:13,16

287:13,18

dates 110:17 249:3

day 5:9 97:12

138:20 147:16

187:19 191:15

197:8 211:1,11

245:18

days 28:11,12,22

29:3 142:11

DDA 302:18

de 189:2 212:12

dead 251:7 286:12

286:16

deadly 310:17,18

deal 9:3 67:20

99:14 151:14

162:2,5 205:21

226:21 254:7

280:19 301:2

311:5 316:1

dealing 59:12

74:15 82:4,18

151:21 210:21

322:7

dealt 72:4

debatable 115:3

debate 10:13 12:4

18:13,21 21:22

40:5 54:19,20

55:12 59:2,17,19

59:20 66:1,4,7
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 341

70:10,18 82:1

84:14 85:1 88:20

90:3 93:9 119:21

120:2 123:8,11

127:18 131:21

132:4 139:1

148:14 154:18,21

160:7,10 163:22

167:4,7 176:7

185:15 186:20

210:17 219:10,13

230:10 242:2

247:17 252:7

253:12 256:12

258:2 260:9,11

272:16 281:21

282:2 286:2,3

290:13 291:13

296:10 298:8,12

debates 173:17

debating 35:5

December 275:6

deceptive 83:19

decide 38:3 132:5

146:22 230:15

303:19 311:3,10

decided 33:21

56:21,22 57:4

130:17 253:13

262:18 267:17

decides 41:11

deciding 42:1

decision 36:17 46:4

137:5,10 213:10

220:14 228:8

273:20 282:6

decisions 274:1,5

274:13

decrease 201:18

dedication 330:20

deems 25:10

defensible 274:11

defer 33:21 114:10

126:7

deferred 55:22

56:3,8 57:13

118:15 305:2

deferring 37:13

51:9 56:4 118:13

define 231:9

defined 185:19

209:6 239:6

256:17

defining 188:16

definitely 69:9

171:20 275:15

definition 3:24

125:9 139:18

184:20 185:7,11

190:22 192:4

196:22 197:16,20

201:14 202:14

204:3,4 208:3

209:7,8 221:9

239:18 305:21

definitions 40:19

191:5 203:1 208:7

dehydrating 202:2

dej 252:1

delete 30:13 31:7

33:17 130:6

287:11

deletion 148:18

deliberation 310:7

deliberations 57:1

134:2 207:4

320:16 321:4

demand 254:1

demands 263:11

demonstration

179:10

DeMURI 1:18 13:4

18:14 20:3 22:22

58:6 63:21 73:17

90:21 117:7

120:17 123:22

149:9 152:19

154:14,19,22

155:3 156:12,20

158:7 160:8 163:4

164:8 165:17

167:5,11,15 168:1

168:16 169:16

177:15,22 216:11

228:19 229:6,10

230:11 234:17

241:19 245:3

259:17 276:15

283:16 293:9

294:22 296:8

298:2 299:6

306:11 308:10

309:16

denying 329:22

Department 1:1

329:15

depend 242:22

dependent 328:18

depending 80:5

214:13 263:12

depends 291:3

derived 159:3

described 135:19

describes 239:9,12

designated 29:10

designation 47:20

60:12

designations 38:9

designed 29:10

30:8 169:19

316:16

desirable 322:1

desire 34:22 35:6

36:9 184:15 254:3

desires 52:16

desk 60:13

despite 236:3

detail 172:2 214:16

details 57:15 77:1

determination

45:19,21 200:13

200:14 208:11

determine 29:15

136:13 175:1

226:20

determined 212:11

244:19 257:16

determining 29:11

200:18

develop 183:21

318:19 320:7

developed 203:19

developing 175:17

183:1

development 4:18

257:17

developments

256:18

de-greening 158:17

de-mossers 14:15

diabasic 158:15

dialogue 35:3,8,18

36:13 43:18

dialoguing 38:15

diatomaceous

154:1 227:12,15

Dickson 1:18 13:8

20:7,8 23:4,5 64:3

64:4 73:21,22

75:19 91:3,4

117:11,12 120:21

120:22 124:4,5

149:13,14 155:18

157:2,3 164:12,13

176:13,14 215:4

245:7,8 259:21,22

283:20,21 293:13

293:14 299:10,11

dictum 234:12

dies 216:16

diet 81:5,7 263:4

263:20

dietary 166:14

Dietz 8:14

difference 168:12

194:4,12 200:9,10

208:6 209:8

221:19 222:12

261:7 265:2

271:21 272:3

differences 128:18

193:15 222:20

different 6:9 53:4,9

162:1 185:10

191:7,9 197:8

205:2 222:6 226:7

227:18 240:4

241:17 275:12

279:7 287:7

Differentiating

261:1

differentiation

25:17

differently 224:14

240:18

difficult 94:9,12

263:10

difficulty 130:17

difluoroethane

302:18

digging 314:22

dilemma 129:22

169:8 323:18

diligence 267:1

diligently 62:17

dillweed 166:6

DiMatteo 77:2

dinner 76:22 151:9

dioxide 158:16

206:13 207:22

241:2 306:22

direct 242:10

directing 172:13

direction 24:11

53:12 323:19

324:8,16

directions 77:2

132:19

directly 199:22

262:2 296:19

disagree 36:8

137:20 191:19

267:13

disagreed 207:10

disagreement

128:2,7

disallow 44:13

disclosed 164:6

disclosure 44:18

235:8

discount 223:16

discourage 142:22

145:11

discovered 208:17

discreet 71:16,16
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 342

discuss 78:9 87:17

261:10 266:17

326:18

discussed 9:17

118:10 131:6

203:22 219:17

262:5 269:8 311:1

321:12 322:12

discussing 113:12

discussion 5:10

24:1,7 26:6,12

29:5 30:18 33:13

35:2,9 46:14,15

46:17,19,21 47:7

50:22 53:2,11

54:15,17 55:10

57:3 61:16 65:8

67:17 68:18 69:10

70:16 72:6 78:1,6

79:13 86:5 90:1

107:22 108:2

113:19 115:17

117:16 127:15

134:10 136:20

139:21 142:18

153:13 167:19

168:4,6 175:10

181:14,22 186:10

186:12,17 193:14

195:6,10 196:1,2

203:15 209:20

213:19 214:7

217:5 225:4

246:11 270:7,11

305:18,19 311:20

314:21,22 321:14

322:6 323:17,22

discussions 35:21

42:14 147:14

193:4 322:10,16

disease 15:6

disinfectants 118:5

disinfectives 14:13

dispensing 44:19

displacement

218:11 219:16

220:4,9 223:19

229:3,12 239:11

240:1 241:12,13

242:15,20

displacer 229:1

230:8 239:15

242:20

displacing 235:11

240:3

disposal 135:11

136:6

disrupt 276:12

277:15

disrupting 189:19

287:14

disruption 276:8

277:5

disruptive 95:7

96:11 255:19

disservice 191:11

distilling 202:1

distinct 185:10

distinction 134:6

238:9,11 239:1,14

240:6

distinguishes

273:21

distracted 87:22

divided 129:12

division 170:8

DL 92:6

DL-Methionine

80:22,22 81:1

92:6,7 281:2,2,3

285:2,2,3

docket 3:24 17:10

125:8,17,21 126:9

308:7

document 6:1

16:14,18 17:12

23:16,20,22 24:9

27:22 28:17 29:12

30:6 31:3 32:20

43:5 51:3 55:3,9

56:12 58:21 60:2

60:12,21 61:6,9

63:2 65:6,18

66:11,12,14,17

67:9,13,21 68:10

69:5,15 78:11,13

79:9,14 98:13

126:3,4 127:2

131:16 137:11

181:17 182:3,10

182:13 183:21

184:4 186:5,13

188:14 193:5,13

193:14,17 194:1

194:19,19 195:7

195:11,14 196:3,5

196:9 201:6,10

209:18 210:18

216:18 218:2,17

218:22 225:6,16

226:2 228:10

229:2 232:14

241:18 242:13,16

242:17 270:13,18

274:1 296:14

297:3,5,17 305:18

305:19 308:17

313:17 316:15,15

documentation

270:18 274:6

277:9

documented

266:12

documents 6:20,22

7:20 8:4 57:11

78:10,10 79:5,7

281:17 309:11

318:4

doing 28:17 32:3

34:1 43:9 62:19

135:2 143:1,4

145:21 147:19

174:15,17,18

180:13 203:5

211:12 227:8

228:1 267:19

279:18 284:17

290:2,6 297:3

304:14 307:13

309:5 322:22

325:3 326:11

dormant 15:3,9

dose 190:1,2

DR 2:20,21

draft 175:2 252:20

302:12 313:16

321:11 324:18

325:9

dramatically 60:15

162:1

drastic 249:9,22

drifting 71:5

drinks 8:17

driven 191:8,8

193:21

driving 173:13

drop 286:12,15,18

dropped 291:8

dropping 175:12

drove 173:21

drugs 134:14

drum 158:19 228:2

drying 158:19

201:21

due 266:22 323:11

dump 132:16

143:13 146:4

dust 21:5

E

E 15:17

earlier 36:8 131:19

151:3 169:4

246:10 267:22

287:2

early 145:14

152:12 252:20

earth 154:2 227:12

227:15

Earthbound 235:9

ease 152:21

easily 71:7 267:16

easy 50:5 158:5

327:2

eat 156:7 264:7

echo 330:17

ecological 189:17

economics 275:9

effect 131:10 198:3

198:21 212:5

220:3,4 225:5

226:1 239:10,12

239:22 240:5

253:17 277:19

309:4

effectively 72:4

effects 179:21

192:5

efficient 311:2

326:10

effort 68:11 98:10

99:5 187:2 190:13

191:13

efforts 174:19

175:7 294:12

330:19

egg 209:4

eight 7:14,15 48:10

49:22

either 32:12 52:4

95:3 137:11 163:8

205:13 212:9

251:19 310:7

322:19

elaborate 70:20

electrolytes 118:9

elegant 230:14

elegantly 95:10

210:12

element 172:15

elemental 14:22

15:10,12 231:21

elements 210:22

Eleven 7:15

eliminate 201:11

Ellor 1:17 9:10,11

10:2,8,14,19 11:1

11:5,13 12:18

14:1 16:8,11,15

16:19,22 17:13,17

18:5,11,18 19:17

20:18 21:12,20

22:13 23:14 33:15

34:8 36:22 37:8

37:15,18,21 56:19
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 343

61:2 63:11 64:21

65:12 66:2,20,22

68:16 69:16,18

72:12 73:8 75:1

88:6 90:9 93:1

116:21 119:10

120:7 124:22

130:16 150:6

157:17 165:5

177:6 199:19

200:12 211:17,22

212:3 216:1

244:11 256:13

259:9 268:11,14

268:17 280:15

281:13 283:6

285:22 289:22

292:21 298:19

302:1 304:7,15

329:21

email 6:7

embarrassed

207:20

embrace 189:11

embraced 188:5

191:12

emergency 140:7

emotionally 329:22

emphasize 192:11

enables 249:11

enclosure 67:12

Enclosures 3:12

65:4,20 71:4

encompasses 27:1

encourage 15:20

86:10 145:9

170:21 254:18

263:17

encouraged 139:4

encouraging

145:13

endeavor 59:16

ended 99:9 224:7

274:3

endless 194:21

endocrine 189:19

endorsing 248:2

ends 184:22

endured 294:13

enforced 141:20

enforcement 161:6

161:7 173:4 174:5

enforcer 173:5

engaged 187:16

Engelbert 77:17

enhance 317:19

enlarge 316:14

ensued 263:15

ensure 190:15

255:6

ensured 255:11

ensures 254:12

enter 7:22

entertain 54:18

entire 194:15

216:18 261:7

285:18 292:5,6,13

entirely 241:16

entities 319:8,15

envision 211:1,11

315:11

enzyme 211:6

EPA 24:16 25:2

28:3 30:13,13

32:17 33:9 35:10

35:14 36:4 38:9

40:13 41:5,10

42:12 43:1 48:8

51:9 54:3 56:5,6

57:15 61:5 191:5

EPA's 40:10,19

47:13

equal 226:15

equation 220:10

equivalency 67:5

264:6

especially 82:3

94:20 129:8

161:12 273:17

essence 83:4

essential 7:9 188:3

189:10,13 211:19

248:4

essentially 7:6

33:22 67:3,17

137:14 203:17

205:4 213:15

253:18

establish 109:1

321:19

established 27:14

28:14,16,22 29:22

32:11 33:1 52:12

136:17 141:7

189:20 266:4

establishment

34:19

esters 15:5 119:4

ethically 143:3

ethylene 158:16

302:11,18

Europe 263:22

evaluate 44:21 45:4

134:3 174:19

232:16 320:4

evaluated 132:20

evaluating 319:5

320:8,9,9

evaluation 318:15

319:2,4,10,18,20

320:12

evaluators 320:10

evening 5:21 24:6

76:20

events 323:11

eventually 37:6

56:11

evergreen 95:2

everybody 8:16

36:11 59:13 76:2

151:20 190:19

216:16 247:20

300:11 328:9

329:8,11,11

everybody's 187:3

294:9,14

everyday 197:7,9

243:20

everyone's 294:11

314:6

everything's 314:8

evidence 289:2

evolutionary 95:22

evolved 82:4

exact 58:1 80:20

88:1 151:22

233:17 247:14

288:4

exactly 37:2 79:6

86:19 109:7

110:19 113:20

139:7 223:1

examine 321:21

example 139:15

197:18 198:1

201:2 207:16

208:15 233:2

261:6

examples 173:19

exception 161:3

exceptions 174:9

excipients 119:7

126:4

excising 144:18

excited 315:9

exclude 135:18,18

excluded 43:6

excuse 105:17

126:18

Executive 324:14

326:17

exemption 96:5

exemptions 96:9

exercise 194:17

exist 56:13 196:17

196:18

existing 61:20 71:8

130:12 260:10

309:2

exists 48:2 197:3

expanding 61:20

expect 170:10,14

303:3

expectation 110:16

expected 301:17

expedite 54:9

expediting 83:21

experience 9:2 82:7

96:20 201:8,9

expert 140:18

201:3

expertise 193:6

237:19

expiration 104:14

104:16 109:1

246:20 249:1,3

279:14

expire 112:13

expired 111:8,13

111:13,14

expires 113:3,16

247:6

explain 189:12

273:10 295:6

308:19

explained 67:4

131:4 294:20

explanation 129:16

exploit 111:3

explore 87:8

184:15 263:6

explored 228:15

exposure 189:1,16

189:21 190:4,12

exposures 190:7

express 34:22

expressed 67:1

148:22 152:12

263:2

expressing 221:19

expressly 191:6

extend 57:20

279:14

extended 8:22

178:17

extensive 267:15

external 119:1

extra 307:21 313:5

extract 212:6

extracted 161:19

166:10 211:5,20

212:21

extracting 201:22

extraction 210:22

210:22 212:19
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 344

extracts 15:12

211:18

extraordinary 61:7

187:1 330:3

extreme 278:6

300:22

extremely 59:15

253:21,21 301:6

eye 176:5

F

F 1:22

fabulous 217:5

facilitate 248:12

255:21

facilitating 182:22

facility 223:15

224:3,12,16

fact 93:21 94:15

98:4 146:1 168:8

179:17 197:7

204:13,18 207:3

220:2 236:3,4

239:18

fail 83:8 84:9

fails 83:5,7 91:20

251:14 260:5

fair 128:3 187:2

220:12

fairly 179:18 246:6

249:21 306:21

307:7 311:17

329:2

fairness 6:12 228:5

228:6,8 230:16

fall 16:3 33:5 41:14

56:7 57:2,14

99:17 118:13,13

276:5 277:14

302:7,8 303:4

305:1 306:20

307:15 313:12

322:21 327:14

falls 161:7 214:9,10

214:13

fantastic 208:17

far 178:21 185:14

198:14 202:11

237:12 244:4

308:14 310:10

farmer 59:9 128:15

farmers 135:8

142:20 145:9

146:2,10 194:9

farms 14:18

farther 70:14 71:5

138:21

fashion 19:4 25:4

54:10 322:12

328:4

faster 60:8 327:22

fate 189:17

Fathers 180:4

fats 158:20 161:18

favor 115:6

favorable 9:19

FDA 141:8 191:5

218:7,9,13,14,16

220:2,17 239:14

feathering 272:8

February 275:7

fed 143:11

federal 98:6 266:13

275:2 314:14

feed 92:11 119:5

136:21,22 213:17

227:16 267:4

309:1

feedback 131:4

183:7 300:19

322:17

feeding 132:3

feel 72:3,18 135:16

137:19 169:7

180:14 205:19

248:4 256:13

261:5 272:19

273:17

feeling 192:20

228:20 248:7

feels 321:20

Feldman 1:19

12:16 19:15 22:11

38:17,20 39:7

44:7 45:6,14 46:6

55:4 63:9 73:6

75:18 87:21 88:18

90:7 93:12 94:9

97:21 98:8 100:4

100:7,15,21 101:1

101:9,19 102:1,9

102:12,15,17

103:18,22 104:4,9

105:17,21 106:22

107:6,20 108:4,12

108:15 109:14

110:8 111:4,13,16

114:12 115:21

116:19 121:12

124:20 127:19,21

128:5,21 133:2,20

135:16,22 136:7

136:10,14,18

137:2 143:18

144:4,7,13 145:6

150:4,20 156:7

157:15 165:3

167:8,12,17

170:19 172:11

177:4 186:21

203:12 206:6,16

207:6,9 210:19

211:21 212:2,4,18

213:1,9,12,20

214:17 215:21

225:2 230:19

231:14,20 232:4

232:21 233:1,11

233:20 234:1,7,9

244:9 246:17

247:1,4,11,18

254:10 259:7

280:9 283:4

292:19 298:17

felt 36:3 98:17 99:5

138:20 221:1

249:8 252:9

261:10,16,19

fence 102:21

fences 99:21

fermenting 202:1

ferric 3:2 9:16 10:4

10:11 303:1

fertilizer 208:18,21

209:12 319:12

fevers 135:5

fiber 307:9,10

field 198:22 199:22

200:11 238:18

fields 199:18

Fifteen 103:15

figure 230:22 258:5

326:9

figured 68:7

figuring 315:1

fill 233:10 274:16

filter 154:4

filtering 154:2

227:7

final 5:3,9,9,17

6:20,22 50:14

51:17 147:9,21

178:5 211:9

220:20 233:10

270:13,18 275:5

277:8 331:13

finally 61:14

184:18 298:10

315:16 324:17

finance 156:10

financial 171:21

173:7

find 38:15 82:8

95:21 96:18,19,20

96:22 97:18

150:19 151:1

155:9 191:15

194:12 209:12

218:7 234:6 253:3

278:4

finding 193:22

253:7 271:4

fine 26:8 34:2 87:3

87:4 88:18 115:14

115:21 152:19

199:11 280:16

285:12 311:10

finish 77:7 139:7

finished 74:22

224:4,8 235:10

314:21

finishes 109:19

finishing 110:1

firm 196:18 262:19

firm's 174:19

first 9:9,12 19:2,5

27:14 37:4 55:10

76:15 78:4,18

79:9,14 80:6,8

88:2,12 93:13

102:21 106:9,11

106:14,17 115:13

153:2,15 168:1,5

168:10 192:12

199:14 203:13

212:17 213:4

222:18 251:13

252:3 275:3 279:1

280:19 286:11

287:2,17 288:3,10

290:8 296:7

301:20,21 314:3

315:12 316:16

323:13 327:1

fish 15:16 166:7

fit 178:10

fits 221:9

five 5:6 31:14,17

38:1 60:18 100:22

103:5 117:15

180:4 249:11

286:10 307:18

325:16,21

fix 324:4

FLAMM 1:19 12:6

20:10 23:7 64:6

74:2 84:12 91:7

107:14 113:6

116:8 121:2

124:10 129:6

137:4 149:16

157:5 164:15

176:16 197:13

198:17,21 200:2,8

215:6 243:9 260:2
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 345

284:1 293:16

294:18 299:13

300:4,12 321:10

flavor 237:1

flesh 276:18

fleshed 273:8

flexibility 184:5

329:4

flexible 182:6

flood 97:9

floor 270:2

flour 166:12

flunixin 118:9

134:19 135:3,21

135:22 140:2

fluoaluminate 21:5

flush 221:15 224:6

235:9

flushed 35:17 70:7

flushing 239:20

fly 287:11

focus 263:2

focused 50:15

257:3

folded 180:2

folks 62:15 89:20

101:22 114:1

135:12 180:12

192:21 267:5

291:9

follow 83:7 188:12

244:4 274:2

276:10 321:13

324:19 325:6,8

followed 308:21

following 14:11

24:21 81:5 82:12

92:10,16 103:9

139:16 193:17

265:10,13 281:6

285:5 308:20

follows 92:6 281:2

285:1

follow-up 140:17

143:6,15,16

261:14

food 154:2,5

155:14,19 158:19

160:21 161:4

194:11 205:1

234:13 281:7

304:8,11 329:15

footing 196:19

force 3:15 24:20

25:10,15,18 26:3

26:9,10,13 27:4

28:14 29:14 32:11

33:7 34:20 37:5

41:11 43:19 44:15

51:4 52:22 54:12

57:16 59:5 79:10

86:8 249:5 250:9

260:18 262:8

289:9

forcing 257:10

foreign 319:15

forget 228:19 274:3

317:13

forgive 265:22

forgot 16:6 218:10

form 82:15 104:3

229:5 232:12

271:10

formal 273:11

330:7

formally 25:21

42:12 310:2,4

format 32:21 68:17

271:6

former 38:9

formulate 30:16

forth 5:11 67:11

228:5 301:17

308:12

fortunately 28:19

forward 41:8 43:15

50:16 185:3 227:9

256:21 257:4,19

275:20 279:14

302:19,21 303:14

306:3 318:2 324:2

Foster 1:20 13:2

20:1 22:20 63:18

63:19 70:11,22

71:22 72:3,9

73:14,15 75:19

90:18,19 117:5

120:14,15 123:19

123:20 149:6,7

156:2,18 165:11

177:13 196:11

199:11 207:12

216:8,9 221:6,16

221:22 223:7,10

235:7,15,18 236:2

244:18,19 245:1

250:4 259:15

283:13,14 293:6,7

299:4 317:16

found 82:7,10 87:8

96:22 190:22

218:13 302:16

303:12 314:19

foundation 83:19

four 93:19 99:15

103:4 151:18

284:7 307:7

319:21

Fourteen 7:11

165:15

frame 26:18,20

28:14,17 29:1

100:17,19 279:6

289:15 324:21

FRANCES 2:14

16:6 42:8,20 43:1

43:5,8,13 137:13

138:7,11,14 270:3

270:21 284:11,15

free 261:5

frees 249:12

freezing 202:2

fresher 228:1,3

friendly 100:3

105:11 106:1

107:3 114:13

229:7,15 230:3

265:1,6 266:18

267:11 269:12

frogs 190:6

front 9:18 78:14

79:6 275:14

281:17

frozen 38:8,21,21

39:2,13 40:1

43:11 44:10 47:22

48:3 159:11 166:9

166:12 167:11,12

fruit 14:2 158:17

fruits 159:9 161:2

frustrating 171:3

full 41:22 44:18

99:19 129:18

131:20 132:19

147:20 235:7

252:21 266:1

269:5 285:21

308:7

fully 147:12 150:22

170:14 184:9

285:17 303:3

308:16 323:11

331:5

Fulrider 1:21

75:18

Fulwider 4:10

12:12 19:11 22:7

63:5 74:8 91:13

116:15 121:8

124:16 128:4

134:16 135:21

139:19 140:1,22

142:19 149:22

150:8 157:11

164:21 172:4,8,17

176:22 179:12

215:17 243:15

258:19 259:2

262:15 272:6

282:22 292:15

299:19

function 228:12

functional 239:10

239:12,22

functions 173:14

fungal 208:18

furiously 306:7

furosemide 118:11

further 10:13 12:4

18:10,13,20 21:19

21:22 54:19 55:11

57:12 59:1,17

66:1,4,7 68:9

69:22 70:9,16,18

77:11 84:14,22

88:19 89:14,21

90:2 93:9 98:11

108:2 120:2 123:8

123:11 127:15,18

131:18 143:1,9

148:14 154:18

156:15 160:7,10

163:21 167:4,6,18

175:10 176:7

186:17,19 196:8

210:16 219:10

230:10 235:2

242:2 256:12,17

258:1 260:11

272:15 281:21

282:2 286:2,3

290:12 291:12

296:7,10 298:7,12

300:3 316:10

322:17

fusoremide 305:7

future 38:16 145:5

171:7 217:6

224:22 236:4

252:11 254:11

256:1 257:14

273:19 274:13

G

G 1:12,15

galangal 166:9

gaps 274:17

gas 219:8 220:8

229:3 231:19

232:18 239:5

243:21

gases 4:15 218:4

219:1 226:11

231:4 237:6

gates 97:9
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 346

gee 218:10

gelatin 166:10

generally 58:2

59:12 181:3

generate 248:11

gesture 8:20

getting 61:8 75:12

76:2 79:3 98:5

105:9 174:3

216:17 236:1

238:5 244:4

304:13 316:18

319:7 328:1

Giacomini 1:12,15

5:3 8:21 9:22

10:7,16 11:3,7,12

11:19 12:3,7,9,11

12:13,15,17,19,21

13:1,3,5,7,9 16:9

16:13,17,20 17:11

17:14 18:6,12,20

19:8,10,12,14,16

19:18,20,22 20:2

20:4,6,9 21:10,14

21:21 22:4,6,8,10

22:12,14,16,19,21

23:1,3,6,8,10 27:3

31:13 34:14 36:16

38:19 39:4,8,14

39:19,22 40:3

41:16 42:7 44:2,5

46:11,18,22 47:5

54:14 55:7,14

56:18 57:19,22

58:17 59:1,22

61:1,13 62:21

63:6,8,10,12,14

63:17,20,22 64:2

64:5,7,9,11 65:10

65:17 66:3 69:4

70:9,17 71:18

72:11,21 73:5,7,9

73:13,16,18,20

74:1,3,5,7,9 75:4

75:22 76:6,12

78:15,18 79:1,4

79:18,22 80:5,12

80:14 81:14,18,20

84:6,22 86:21

87:18 88:3,17,19

89:2,7,11,14 90:2

90:8,10,12,17,20

90:22 91:2,5,8,10

91:12,14,16 93:2

93:11 97:15 98:3

98:9,16,20 100:12

100:18 101:6,15

101:20 102:2,7,11

102:16,19 103:4,7

103:16,21 104:1,6

104:10,13 105:2

105:10,20 106:2

106:12,18,20

107:2,7,10,16,21

108:5,9,13,20

109:16 112:4,8,15

113:7,9 114:14,20

115:8,11,16 116:1

116:5,10,12,14,16

116:18,20,22

117:2,4,6,8,10,13

119:11 120:1,8,10

120:13,16,18,20

121:1,3,5,7,9,11

121:13,16,20

122:18 123:2,10

123:15,18,21

124:1,3,6,9,11,13

124:15,17,19,21

125:1,12,18

126:11 127:7,10

127:17,20 128:10

128:14,17 129:5

130:2 131:17

132:10 133:8,12

133:16 134:15

135:15 137:3,7,18

138:4,10,13,16

139:6,10 140:15

141:15,17 142:2

143:14 144:2,6,11

144:17 145:7,17

146:13 147:1,7

148:1,4,7,10,12

149:2,5,8,10,12

149:15,17,19,21

150:1,3,5,7,9,13

151:8,14 154:13

154:20 155:1,8,16

155:22 156:5,8,14

156:19,21 157:1,4

157:6,8,10,12,14

157:16,18,20

158:1 160:1,9

161:9 162:4,9,19

163:2,10,21 164:3

164:9,11,14,16,18

164:20,22 165:2,4

165:6,8,10,12

166:21 167:3,6,18

172:3,10 175:9

176:6,12,15,17,19

176:21 177:1,3,5

177:7,9,12,14,16

178:1,15 179:16

180:6,20 186:11

186:19 193:10

195:1,15,19 196:7

197:12 199:7,13

200:22 201:4

202:20 203:10

207:11 209:14,22

210:16 213:13,21

214:21 215:5,8,10

215:13,16,18,20

215:22 216:2,4,7

216:10,12,14

217:1,12,21 219:5

219:12 220:18

221:5,18 222:2,3

222:9 224:20

225:3,10,21 226:5

227:11 228:18

229:4,8,14,20

230:2,7,12,18

232:5,22 234:16

235:6,16,20 236:7

238:1,3 241:11,20

242:5,19 243:2,6

243:8,10,12,14,16

243:22 244:3,8,10

244:12,14,17,21

245:2,4,6,9 246:3

246:21 247:3,7,12

248:17 250:3,19

251:4,10,13,18,22

252:18 256:7,11

258:1,14,16,18,22

259:3,6,8,10,12

259:14,16,18,20

260:1,3,9 262:13

262:17 264:9,12

264:15,19 265:17

265:21 267:12

268:6,13,16,22

269:10,15,17,22

270:15 271:5,9,12

271:17 272:4,15

274:19 275:21

277:20 279:3,12

279:16 280:1,7,11

280:13,17 281:11

281:14 282:1,5,14

283:1,3,5,7,9,12

283:15,17,19,22

284:2,4,13,16

285:9,13,20 286:1

286:5,11 288:2

289:7,20 290:12

291:5,12,22 292:4

292:9,11,16,18,20

292:22 293:2,5,8

293:10,12,15,17

293:19,21 294:7

294:10 296:2,9,16

296:21 297:8,12

297:19,22 298:7

298:14,16,18,20

298:22 299:3,5,7

299:9,12,14,16,18

299:20 300:2,6,13

301:10 304:5,10

304:17 306:2,9

308:8,11 309:20

310:3,9,15 311:6

311:11 312:1,6,11

312:19,22 316:7

317:15,22 321:8

325:11 326:4,15

328:5 329:18

330:10 331:12

332:1,4

give 36:3 53:12

96:2 98:21 146:16

210:9,9 226:22

233:2 263:5

300:19 327:17

given 94:3 110:22

289:14

gives 254:11

giving 28:14 32:4

99:18 290:7

glad 93:16

glass 236:19

glasses 8:3 331:17

Glucosamine

306:16

glucose 305:5

glycerides 158:18

glycerin 158:19

161:16,22 305:5

glycol 302:11,20

go 5:8 9:20 14:7

19:2 25:6 26:19

37:3 51:3 53:15

57:11 60:7 66:15

75:13,21 87:19

88:5,16 94:22

100:13 101:1

108:10 115:12

118:2,4 130:10

132:15 135:19

136:12 139:4

143:9 153:13

162:17 163:6,7

169:21 170:22

172:6 178:8

180:13 181:12

184:11,20 185:3

195:9 214:2,4

217:17,19 234:11

238:5 253:1

254:15 257:20

266:12 276:15

277:21 301:4
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 347

302:4 309:19

goal 51:5 95:6,7

249:18 261:21

313:14 328:4

goals 24:12 52:2

71:9

God 268:15

goes 62:19 88:9,15

94:5 170:1 214:11

235:2 329:14

going 14:4,7 23:16

31:19 33:17 35:8

37:3,22 38:14

41:4 42:10 44:15

46:2 50:16 51:3,5

56:11 57:17 62:5

69:8 77:7 86:3

87:11 89:5 94:15

99:1 113:22 124:7

125:14 132:13

133:21 146:5,14

146:17 147:14

151:2 162:2 168:3

175:7 178:5,22

179:9 181:12

187:19 193:3

194:18 205:18

207:4 217:17

226:1,13 231:9

234:18 238:16

240:2 251:19

253:18 266:15

271:2,3 273:5,14

274:8 275:4,16

277:17 279:17

286:8,10 287:11

288:21,22 289:4

289:12 290:16

301:4,21 308:8

310:6 316:14,17

317:13 323:1

324:2 326:7

327:20 328:17

330:4,6,22 331:3

good 34:15 56:1

58:11 88:8 93:15

171:18 172:12,18

175:7 189:3 197:2

250:5,18 262:4

286:21 289:17

gotcha 48:1 50:1

251:17

gotten 193:7 315:4

governed 189:8

government 180:7

grace 29:11,19

gracious 8:20

grades 154:3,4

grain 204:21

227:13

granted 171:17

grape 206:14

grapes 206:12

grateful 193:5

217:5

gray 30:4

great 61:9 67:20

173:5 174:15,17

238:4 254:3

256:19 263:1

311:16 312:9

greater 99:13

272:8,10

greatly 328:17,18

green 28:9 30:5

greenhouse 67:12

grind 37:21

grinding 201:22

ground 87:8,11

132:16,18 255:22

group 25:18,20

26:12 27:11 52:12

52:21 59:4,6

131:22 152:20

153:2,15 158:7

162:17 165:17

250:14

groupings 152:17

groups 26:19 67:14

153:2 290:18

291:7,10

group/task 26:9

growing 68:20,20

171:5 272:7

grown 67:12 168:9

guar 166:11

guarantee 35:7

97:7,8 249:15

255:15 256:1

guarantees 255:7,9

guess 31:1 45:3

52:13 97:17 101:9

128:7 129:7 134:5

143:22 167:12

168:3,19 169:7

170:19 200:3,9,18

205:18 222:11

226:8 231:20

296:22

guidance 36:3

175:3 182:3,6

183:2,4,21 184:4

226:21 232:19

297:17 308:4

311:21 313:16

316:1,11,12,18

317:5,9 318:4

guide 36:11

guided 202:17

guidelines 4:15

188:4 218:3,22

305:16

gum 159:15

gums 166:10

guy 168:17 300:12

guys 76:3 210:2

311:3,10

Gwen 8:15 237:21

238:1 241:14

Gwendolyn 238:2

H

Hail 180:5

hair 238:9

half 267:17,21

268:18 280:19

284:10 288:10,12

HALL 1:21 12:10

19:9 22:5 44:4

58:18 64:10 74:6

81:19 91:11 100:1

100:5 108:21

109:4 114:19

116:13 121:6

122:17 124:14

127:9 149:20

157:9 164:19

176:20 215:15

243:13 258:15,17

282:4 293:20

299:17

hallways 261:12

hamstrung 327:21

hand 224:22

268:15 303:9

Handbook 318:8

handle 24:2 34:5,6

35:16,18 128:3

171:18 309:7

handled 7:6 51:1

handling 4:4,11

59:11 74:20 96:6

152:9,11 153:7

160:4 180:16

186:1,14 202:7

213:14 215:2

217:11 238:21

306:10 309:4

312:12,13,16

314:5,16 327:9

hands 47:21 51:3

133:6,10

handy 230:21

hang 238:11

hanging 14:2 47:4

happen 9:5 13:18

35:7 36:10 57:17

315:1

happened 39:3

happening 129:14

187:10 205:21

happens 56:14

212:20 306:6

happier 312:15

happy 112:1

181:14 208:20

225:11,19 313:4

hard 5:20 28:18

77:18 79:11 85:13

94:3 250:6 253:21

294:11 327:3

330:19

harm 189:2

harmful 205:10

hat 188:11 196:16

hate 91:19

hats 238:12

Hays 1:12

heading 24:10,11

heads 137:8

health 3:24 4:2

125:9 126:21

142:3 189:18

305:21

hear 37:11 42:9,14

78:1 93:16 260:20

heard 85:9,12

89:19 94:17 129:2

167:9 190:5,6

198:13 330:3,4

hearing 90:13

100:2

heart 330:8

heat 189:14

heating 201:21

204:2

Heidrick 1:11 8:11

8:17

HEINZE 1:22 13:6

20:5 23:2 46:13

46:21 47:3,8,12

47:18 48:1,5,8,12

48:15,18 49:1,4,7

49:12,15 50:1,4,8

50:11,13,18 51:7

51:11,16,21 52:6

52:13,16 53:1,6

59:18 60:1,5,16

60:19,22 64:1

70:19 71:19 72:1

72:7,10 73:19

76:5 85:2,18,22

86:9,14,16,20

88:22 89:4,8,13

91:1 106:16 108:6
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 348

108:10 113:8,18

114:17 117:9

120:19 124:2

140:16 141:1,3,11

141:16 142:1

145:8,19 146:3,7

146:12 149:11

155:13 156:22

162:22 163:11,17

163:20 164:10

176:11 180:18

181:7 186:9,18

191:17 197:17

198:18 199:2,9

200:3 201:1

202:13,22 206:1,8

207:3,7,10 209:21

210:1 211:15

212:13,19 213:2

213:11 214:14,18

216:13 217:4

232:2 245:5 252:1

252:17 259:19

278:21 279:4

283:18 291:19

292:3,7,10 293:11

296:22 297:11,14

297:16,21 299:8

312:14,21 313:2

326:7 331:3

helium 231:4

hell 310:13

help 74:20 84:19

114:21 129:21

232:2 248:12,14

255:20 261:22

276:12

helped 9:1

helpful 134:1

241:10 262:11

270:12 309:17

312:10

helping 8:12 210:3

hen 258:20

Herbicide 14:17

herbicides 14:16

hermaphroditic

190:6

hesitate 68:20 69:2

hexana 212:22

hexane 213:6

Hey 70:19

high 5:6

highlight 31:12

34:10 184:7,12

highlighted 28:8

34:3

highly 274:12

historic 85:5

historical 107:4

297:2

historically 95:16

192:2,9

history 1:12 194:15

266:1

hit 170:14

hoc 321:19 325:5

hog 168:22 169:1

169:10 170:4

171:21 175:14

hogs 171:5

Hold 198:18

holds 220:20

hole 188:19,20,21

238:16

holes 218:14

home 74:16

homes 69:14

Honest 268:15

hope 9:5 16:2 89:5

93:22 94:11 187:9

189:5 208:2 215:6

232:15 275:17

294:6

hopefully 77:8,22

96:1 171:6 173:18

246:7 248:9

313:12

hoping 26:21 30:17

96:15 263:4 313:9

hops 307:2

horizon 94:18

horticultural 15:2

15:8

hospitable 8:16

hotel 76:18

hour 271:4 313:5

hours 235:4

hour's 84:17

house 169:22

housecleaning 8:7

331:16

housekeeping

77:11

houses 258:20

huge 144:9

hugely 126:12

humane 134:22

humanity 16:21

humic 15:13

hybrid 305:13

hydrated 15:7

119:3

hydrogen 14:14

15:7 158:20

hydrolysis 158:20

161:18

hydroponics 67:7

68:14 70:12 71:2

71:6,15 72:15,17

264:4

hydroxide 118:18

159:8,19 160:17

163:13

hydroxy 81:1,1

92:7,8 281:2,3

285:2,3

I

idea 24:22 89:19

99:10 255:18

275:4

identify 183:18,19

189:9

identifying 142:16

identity 185:8,10

213:3

ignore 48:19 49:8

74:13,14 204:18

III 184:10

imagine 298:9

318:8

imagining 252:12

252:15

immediate 183:20

impact 126:6

156:10 189:22

195:2 199:16,20

199:21 200:13,21

213:16 214:8

289:16 309:3,6

impacts 190:7

implement 175:2

implementation

24:19 28:11 71:1

313:21

implemented 183:3

183:13 319:12

322:14

implication 59:9

implications 196:9

importance 83:11

important 13:14

16:12 35:22 36:3

62:15 93:15

113:19 135:7

188:4 220:19,21

249:20 250:11

257:11 263:21

320:1 324:11,18

325:7 326:19

327:7,12

importantly 322:4

imports 198:9

impression 324:5

impressive 5:18

improve 174:6

316:19

improved 70:15

improvement

174:21 175:8

improvements

315:21

inadequate 142:5

inadvertently

44:13

incentive 95:2

256:20 257:3

incentives 94:22

95:8

inclined 222:13

226:8

include 24:19 59:8

59:8 231:4 262:8

305:2,14 308:9

309:13 316:10

included 25:12

40:12 41:2 56:10

61:21 62:1 147:10

147:17

includes 119:16

136:11 239:19

308:19

including 14:13

15:1 167:9 231:16

305:13 321:5

inclusion 32:14

110:16 308:22

inclusive 25:22

59:7,15 134:12

inconsistency

224:19 228:7

inconsistent 198:15

inconvenience 9:4

increased 183:12

incredible 93:14

incredibly 93:14

independent 197:3

indicated 267:3

individual 32:5

41:15 152:17

individually 32:1

159:11

individuals 49:6

Indole-3butyric

303:6

indulgence 237:16

282:11 294:9

industries 175:17

industry 6:2 25:4

35:10 89:1 95:18

95:21 97:5 98:11

99:11,13 111:21

126:7 128:2,8,9

128:13,15,18
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 349

138:17 168:9

170:10,17,22

173:20 183:2,4

184:3 193:18

196:19 197:10

203:3 210:7,11

253:1 255:1,20

261:11,16 263:12

267:2 273:10

276:9 277:5,11,15

287:15 288:5,10

290:2 291:9

300:22 301:5

inert 4:15 32:13

41:5 45:16 218:3

219:1,7 220:8

231:4,9,16,18

232:1 237:5

inerts 3:9 23:15

24:3,9 32:18

33:10 35:13,15

37:14 38:22 40:9

40:11,20 44:20,22

47:14 48:2 50:16

56:5,6,21 57:12

58:22 63:3

infers 222:15

influence 225:18

226:1 309:3

influencing 264:4

information 38:18

45:20 46:3,9

168:14 175:21

178:4 179:2 218:7

218:12,15,20

220:17 232:13

236:17 238:8

274:16 288:20

289:11,18 303:5

308:6

informed 181:8

301:8

infused 237:6

infusing 237:14

ingredient 32:13

198:5 204:19

205:4,7,9,16

206:3,17 207:2

239:4,7

ingredients 39:15

41:5 44:12,21

153:18 158:11

165:19 166:3,7,8

203:18 205:2

208:4

inhumane 143:2

initially 225:12

325:18

initials 8:1

initiate 253:1

initiation 59:4

initiative 320:1

initiatives 318:20

inks 17:4

input 6:4 68:12

131:1 200:6 312:9

319:14

inputs 199:20,21

200:1,7,10 208:5

294:12

ins 196:13

insecticidal 15:4

insecticides 14:21

insignificant

188:17 190:17

193:2 212:12

inspections 318:13

318:14 320:20

instance 235:2

319:6

institutionalize

255:18

institutions 191:6

insufficient 303:13

intact 60:13

integrity 317:18

320:2

intelligible 46:4

intend 150:22

intended 138:12,21

139:8 147:13

192:14 197:15

220:14

intent 54:6 66:12

66:18 70:12 71:1

72:14 99:8 147:7

183:15 220:22

232:14 242:13,17

252:22 276:13

intention 30:12

137:13 198:12

203:4 317:12

interest 20:13

64:14,18 66:6,7

73:1 90:13 121:14

121:18 124:7

155:2 170:16

173:8 235:21

243:17,19,20

244:20 248:11

250:13 272:18

298:10

interested 331:14

interests 171:21

interface 234:22

interim 31:6 50:20

intermediate 220:8

internally 273:14

internet 300:12,14

interpretation 96:4

220:21 225:14

Interpretive 225:2

intestine 169:10

170:4

intestines 166:6

168:21,22 169:1

170:18

introduce 290:10

introduced 225:12

introducing 228:14

228:17

invermectin 118:19

inverted 190:3

invested 256:20

invite 329:8

invited 25:22 77:6

329:12

invites 47:10

involved 6:13

16:21 26:4 59:14

129:14 151:19

152:5 231:6

288:18 311:20

iodine 118:17

119:2

IQF 159:11 160:19

161:3

iron 15:15

irrelevant 190:11

irrigation 14:14

isolation 196:17

issue 35:18 38:16

38:20 44:17 67:9

72:20 96:8 129:11

131:15 132:2

133:22 134:2,22

137:6 142:6

151:15 188:15

203:13 227:2

240:9 241:13,17

247:21 251:8

253:7,9 254:12,13

263:7 272:12

273:15 309:5

311:1,5,7,21

312:4 324:11

issues 13:20 44:19

59:12 74:16 82:5

93:20 98:10 181:2

189:18,18 191:4

193:12 209:18

210:17 309:15

311:14 324:20

item 9:12 14:1

23:14 32:1 33:16

33:17,21 39:16

50:22 56:5,8

62:11 78:4 91:21

117:19,22 119:17

122:6 125:5,7

126:14,21 155:4

158:6 165:16

198:6 279:11

305:20 317:1

321:13,16 322:13

323:2,4

items 18:16 21:15

32:5 34:21 41:15

52:11 62:1,10

120:4 140:4

144:21 153:3,5,5

153:7,9,11 154:8

154:11,15 155:5,6

155:15,20 156:4

158:8 159:21

160:3 164:5

165:18 166:19,22

171:15,17 176:4

249:13 306:16

307:1,18,19,19

315:18 321:14

322:6

it'll 29:13 54:7

IV 181:19

J

jar 222:7

Jay 1:19 12:15

19:14 22:10 38:19

41:13 44:6 55:9

61:5,12 63:8 73:5

74:20 75:18 88:3

88:17 90:6 93:11

100:1 106:3

115:20 116:18

121:11 124:19

127:20 131:17,20

133:19 135:15

136:4 143:17

150:3,19 152:3

157:14 165:2

167:7 172:10

173:13 177:3

186:20 192:19

193:16 195:11

203:11 210:1

213:13 215:20

230:18 232:22

234:4 244:8 246:3

246:14 247:16

254:9 259:4,6

261:14 283:3

284:14 292:18

298:16

Jay's 82:7 131:19
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 350

139:17 195:16,20

Jeff 10:8,15,16

11:16 12:13 19:12

22:8 23:17 55:8

58:18 61:4 63:6

73:3 77:14 91:14

97:15 105:13

107:3,7 116:16

119:12 121:9

123:3,8 124:17

127:11 143:16

150:1 152:2

157:12 164:22

167:19 177:1

199:8 215:18

222:10 225:1,4

236:7 244:6

248:18 250:19

259:4 260:7

267:14 280:4,18

283:1 284:16

285:11 286:3

291:5 292:16

298:14 304:18

JEFFREY 1:22

Jennifer 1:21 12:9

19:8 22:4 44:3

58:17 64:9 74:5

88:7 91:10 99:22

108:20 116:12

121:5 123:4

124:13 127:11

149:19 157:8

164:18 176:19

215:14 243:12

258:14 282:3,20

284:14 293:19

299:16

Jerry 67:4

job 174:15,17

203:9 327:1

Joe 1:18,23 8:8,22

12:21,22 13:7,9

19:20,21 20:6,11

22:16 23:3 27:20

55:15 56:2 63:14

64:2 66:9 69:3

73:11,20 75:19

86:21 90:15 91:2

115:13,13 117:2

117:10 120:10,20

123:15 124:3

139:10 148:10

149:2,12 151:3

155:17 157:1,20

160:2 161:9,10

163:11 164:11

165:8 167:2

169:19 172:13

176:12 177:9

180:7 193:10

215:3 216:4

217:19 221:21

222:12 225:13

229:14 234:17

241:12 244:14

245:6 259:12,20

260:15 263:18

266:16 271:5

283:9,19 293:2,12

296:11 298:2,22

299:9 309:20

316:8 327:15

328:6 329:19

332:5

Joe's 71:13 195:20

224:8 268:12

271:14

John 1:20 13:1

19:22 22:19 63:17

67:1 70:10,19

73:13 75:18 90:17

117:4 120:13

123:18 149:5

156:1,17 165:10

177:12 196:10

199:5,10 207:11

216:7 221:5

222:22,22 223:2

226:14 233:3

235:6 236:1

244:17 250:3

259:14 283:12

293:5 299:3

317:15

John's 224:22

243:17

join 311:1

joint 4:11 69:5,10

180:16,21 185:16

186:13 196:4

215:1 217:11

310:12,20 312:12

312:15 313:17

325:4 326:11

328:16

joke 330:14

judge 320:8

JUDY 2:13

juice 219:18 220:7

223:18,21 224:5

228:3 235:2

jump 26:7 261:5

justification 253:3

273:5 275:18

287:7,10,21 288:1

justifies 272:19

308:22

justify 175:22

266:3 287:5

288:20 289:4,6

justifying 267:19

K

kaolin 154:2

Katherine 77:2

Katrina 1:22 13:5

20:4 23:1 46:11

59:17 63:22 70:18

71:18 73:18 77:7

85:1 88:21 89:22

90:22 93:17

107:22 108:5

113:7,17 117:8

120:18 124:1

140:15 143:15

145:7 149:10

155:12 156:21

162:20 163:10

164:9 176:10

180:17 181:2

186:22 188:13

195:10 197:13

210:20 216:12

231:3 245:4

251:22 259:18

278:1,20 283:17

291:18 293:10

296:21 297:20

299:7 310:18

312:13 313:1

326:6 330:11

331:2

Katrina's 44:1

46:10 186:15

196:15 206:9

308:1

keep 9:19 10:4

14:10 64:14

137:16 138:14

175:19 176:5

194:6 230:15

233:21 235:1

301:7 327:10

keeping 53:1 228:1

228:2

keeps 98:5 130:5,6

148:5,20 249:14

331:8

Kelly 8:14

kelp 166:13

kept 93:17

kernel 197:19,21

KERRY 2:20

Kevin 77:17,18,20

132:14 138:5

139:7 143:7,7

150:18,21 151:4

311:7

Kevin's 78:2

key 185:4

Kim 8:14

kind 34:22 38:7

42:9 58:18 66:16

68:7 71:10 85:5

137:14 195:5

209:10 228:7

250:1 315:4

319:13,17 320:11

kinds 190:11

knew 69:7 75:11

knock 131:10

238:18

know 9:13 29:13

30:2 31:8 35:6,13

35:14 37:8 38:2

40:11 42:13 44:19

45:11 46:1 53:3,8

54:13 57:16,17

58:1 66:18 67:12

67:16,18,22 68:3

68:9,11 75:11

94:13 95:16,21

96:12,14 97:10,11

100:10 102:5

110:19 115:3

118:14 121:16

129:18,19,21

130:21 131:3,8

134:10,20,21,22

135:2,4 140:18,19

142:20 143:3

145:22 146:15

151:9 161:13

168:6,14 170:10

171:2,4,9,14,17

172:17 173:4

182:15 185:12

188:13 190:14,19

192:19,21 193:7

194:16 200:18

203:13 205:17

210:20 211:6

221:10,17,22

224:9 231:7 232:1

232:5 234:4 237:9

237:12 242:7,9

252:14 254:17,20

255:13 256:18

257:1,16 262:1

263:20 266:1

272:9 278:16

287:2 289:3

303:16 304:9

309:10 310:14
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 351

313:3 315:8

324:11,22 325:3

330:5

knowing 172:9

known 172:21

173:8

knows 199:3 304:8

329:14

konjac 166:11

krypton 231:5

L

label 143:1 219:7

238:15 317:6,8,10

labeled 4:15 142:13

153:19 158:12,22

159:2,4,6,13,15

165:20 218:4

219:1 223:21

lack 109:6 252:22

Lane 1:12

language 30:5,11

30:17 31:6,8,18

32:1 40:6 43:15

51:18 60:14 126:4

129:3 130:12

141:19 142:15

143:20 144:10

151:21 152:4

182:10,16 184:6

185:18 196:21

220:22 225:14

229:11 230:4

246:13,15 247:13

247:15 250:22

258:4,8 263:13

292:5,6,13 295:14

lap 137:9

large 192:16 254:4

larger 253:11

LARS 2:18

late 5:21 32:7 76:13

130:19 179:4

246:5

laughing 329:10

law 189:8 319:12

lay 240:22

layer 220:13

271:22

layers 228:14 261:1

272:1 282:17

Laying 81:9 92:12

92:17 103:9,11

265:10,14 281:7

285:6

layperson 233:5

LC 80:2

lead 21:4 87:10

220:4

leader 330:1

leading 151:10

191:3,4 305:1

learn 135:12

236:15

learned 61:11

135:9 236:13

learning 135:12

leave 33:19 37:2,11

38:5 51:4 145:12

167:14 197:11

323:1 324:3

leavening 159:17

159:18 208:1

leaves 166:16

323:17

leaving 26:8 330:5

lecithin 173:20,22

left 76:16 211:8

312:17

legal 95:14 96:14

132:1 133:13,15

133:17 146:14,15

146:16

lemongrass 166:12

167:10

length 98:22

lengthy 79:13 86:5

118:1

lessons 173:17

let's 87:12,14 116:6

178:8 179:5 195:5

246:21 316:8

level 181:5 189:1

189:20 190:12

286:18

levels 81:5 92:10,16

103:9 190:7,18

260:22 261:20

265:10,13 276:22

281:6 282:17

285:5

liaison 311:5

326:13

liberal 201:16

liberalization

263:14

lidocaine 119:2

life 81:8 179:22

261:7 288:7

light 210:4

lime 15:1,7,8 119:2

limit 139:14 161:1

limitation 161:1

limited 144:22

145:3 160:18

limiting 134:12

line 61:19 80:2,3

112:11 129:17

240:12 244:5

273:3 275:14,22

linear 190:2

lined 312:3

lines 80:1

link 43:3

liquid 15:16

liquor 303:11

LISA 2:21

list 3:9,9 4:19 7:16

10:4 11:22 14:10

15:18 17:6 18:7

21:8,17 23:15

24:2,2,8 28:3

30:13,14,19 32:1

32:5,12,16,17,18

32:20 33:6,8,10

33:11 35:13 37:6

38:9,9,22 39:9,12

39:18,21 40:12,13

41:1,10,15 42:2

42:11,12,20 43:9

44:8,10,11,14

47:13,14,15,21,21

48:1,6,9,13,21

49:22 51:9 56:5,6

57:12 58:22,22

61:18,20,22 62:8

62:9,10 63:3,3

80:15,17,21 82:19

83:5,7,8,12,14

99:12 109:12

118:2,2,12,14,21

119:17 136:6

141:4 145:1,4

161:12,13 163:9

167:13,21 168:5

168:10 171:22

172:16,20 173:12

175:12 185:22

187:13 188:8

205:18 209:3,5

212:10 214:3

232:16 249:7

277:21 295:9

301:20 304:13

308:20 309:21

314:10,11 315:7

318:22 319:6

320:3 322:2

listed 17:21 34:21

39:15 49:9 58:12

62:10 81:22 83:3

154:15 232:17

277:21

listing 32:16,21

35:15 49:19 86:9

90:5 93:6 109:17

109:21 160:20

187:12 199:17

304:14 309:2,15

310:8

lists 80:12 161:15

166:8 306:6

little 9:14 26:9

28:18 33:16 54:21

55:1 71:22 87:22

96:4 178:3 179:3

181:9 197:5

236:13 246:5

270:6 274:22

307:20 323:18

330:13

live 159:9 189:11

lives 216:16

livestock 3:14

23:19 59:10 77:13

78:8 80:18 92:1

92:21 93:6 120:5

122:3,6,9 125:10

126:11,15,20

127:12 136:22

142:3 147:8,12

148:16 151:13

152:8 168:7,8

175:17 186:1

201:9 202:7

213:17 214:11,15

248:20 249:8,13

249:16 250:2,4,17

251:2,7 254:3

256:14 257:18

260:6,12 261:4

262:14 263:5

268:7 269:2

270:10 279:19,21

280:3 294:4

304:18,22 309:1,6

310:11,22 311:3,8

314:4,16 320:15

321:2,3 327:9

Livestock's 125:8

living 194:1

loading 241:15

local 119:2

located 1:12

locust 166:11

logical 205:7

logically 205:12

long 54:11,12 62:19

69:3 72:5 98:18

162:2 304:16

319:19,22

longer 56:12 68:18

72:6 109:10

110:11 119:17

189:22 228:2,3
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 352

288:21 312:16

look 17:9 36:12

51:22 52:9 53:19

54:3 57:11 59:13

77:9 96:2 114:1

132:12 146:18

184:19 214:16

302:17 312:3

317:17 319:19

321:4,17 323:8

329:3

looking 23:18

42:18 75:6 78:11

94:1 106:3 169:5

171:4 176:2 191:2

196:1 245:13

247:15 267:3

318:2 319:16

328:22

looks 211:15

lose 30:15 31:5

34:10 89:1

loses 223:21

lost 217:13 315:4

lot 16:1 24:1 35:4

53:3 57:2 61:11

85:18 110:20

126:18 131:3

147:3 168:5

173:15 193:7

196:13,14,14

202:8 208:19

210:21 211:18

234:4 302:2

303:12 304:3

307:5 318:5 319:7

323:16 325:20

327:21,22 330:14

lots 275:8,8,9

289:17

loud 72:19

love 257:8

low 14:2 190:7,11

lower 261:20

286:18

lumped 158:8

lunch 3:17 114:3

114:16,18 115:5

117:17 151:16

178:10 217:15,15

245:14,15 246:11

lunches 217:16

lunchtime 246:5

luxury 226:18

M

M 1:21

macaroni 204:21

Madam 10:12

13:22 18:9 33:14

36:20 65:22

186:16

magnesium 118:18

158:21 159:2,3

305:5

main 70:22 71:14

71:14 72:13

107:17 118:3

231:12 246:14,16

329:16

maintain 21:7,16

276:13,22

maintaining 47:15

maintenance 14:18

major 37:4 175:16

275:3 323:2

majority 83:6

114:22 115:1,2

147:8,12 203:7

maker 10:12 18:9

21:18 55:10 65:22

93:8 105:5,13

108:1 112:16,18

113:10,10 119:20

123:7 127:14

151:16 154:17

160:6 167:3

186:16 219:9

230:9 280:4

281:20 286:2

makers 246:12

making 43:8 53:18

54:20 74:17 104:3

112:5 119:19

132:14 151:17

168:22 169:2

171:11 172:20

173:8 207:13,20

220:15 226:18

228:8 235:14

236:5 266:9,13

269:12 271:18

309:13 311:19

malt 307:9

man 5:7 300:10

manage 33:9,12

47:21 50:16

279:17

managed 32:17

manages 41:10

manganese 15:15

manner 51:2

manual 33:3

295:15,22 296:15

322:7

manufacturer

155:14,19 156:3

manufacturing

202:3

manure 21:3

MARK 2:17

market 169:3,11

marketed 316:22

MARKETING 1:1

marketplace

161:20

Mary's 180:5

mass 202:19

master 314:10,11

match 114:5

matched 203:1,2

matches 202:15

material 14:8

32:16 40:22 57:7

78:5 80:17 85:6

85:13 122:10

123:1 133:21

136:13 162:14

187:14 188:1

203:20,21,21

204:11,17 205:4

206:18,19,20

223:11 224:10,13

226:7,11 231:13

249:4,11 289:14

295:12 302:10,17

314:4 315:20

316:5 318:15

319:2,4,10,20

320:9,12 327:8

materials 3:22 4:11

4:12,18 16:1

17:20 30:16,19

32:22 33:4 41:9

41:12,21 42:11,12

42:21 43:11,16

48:6,13 49:6 56:4

62:18 118:3 122:8

134:4 136:5,16

141:9,9 146:6

153:16 161:14

174:10 180:16

183:13 185:20

186:3,14 188:3,9

189:9 190:8 192:1

192:5 198:16

202:19 203:17,19

215:2 217:11

218:13 230:20

231:11 234:5

274:4 295:8

296:14 298:3

304:1 305:2,5

306:12 307:14

309:11 312:13,16

312:18,22 313:6

313:15 314:3,19

314:20 315:2,15

315:18 316:2

319:14,16 320:3

matrix 320:7

matter 32:19 33:5

37:5 66:4 76:10

178:13 180:3

210:13 237:15

239:16 298:11

matters 294:3

mature 175:16

maximum 92:10,16

103:9 265:10,13

281:6

McEVOY 2:12

41:17,20 42:4

53:17,22 75:9

109:2,5 110:4

111:11,14 147:2

174:13 274:21

279:5,13 288:18

289:10 301:7

312:8 318:2 319:2

320:11,19,22

325:14 328:2

meals 178:11

mean 35:15 53:11

66:19 97:8 100:10

105:17 128:7

131:10 138:7

140:1 143:4,22

144:4 169:9 171:1

172:18 179:6

191:14 205:17

213:17 221:10,17

225:15 231:15

242:22 266:6

272:11 297:2

310:19

meaning 83:17,18

meanings 53:4

means 70:21 227:4

264:7 282:12,13

282:15

meant 257:8

measure 249:9

meat 170:8

mechanism 24:1

201:15

medial 118:6

medications 142:7

142:8 145:9

medicines 135:14

meds 134:18,19

135:20 140:2

142:21 143:5,13

144:15,20,22

145:2,3,18,20
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 353

meet 24:5 263:8,10

295:2 327:19

meeting 1:4 5:5,11

5:16 9:2 33:20,22

51:13 55:22 56:7

56:22 57:3,8 72:5

75:3 76:21 77:12

77:21 85:15

118:13 130:4

245:17 252:3

267:9 276:5 290:3

294:17 300:8

301:12,18,21

302:4 305:1,3,12

307:17 313:19

314:1 322:10,21

324:14 327:6

328:11 329:9,10

329:13 330:1,22

331:19,22 332:9

meetings 8:13 58:3

67:16 130:19

314:18 330:14

meets 320:5

member 83:10

108:16

members 1:14 3:13

5:6 6:10,15 7:11

7:14,22 18:22

71:12 75:10 76:1

82:3 137:19

152:18 172:21

212:15 252:9

261:5 262:14

272:21 323:10

326:21 327:11

memorandum

24:15 25:1 26:15

26:22

mention 16:7 89:16

155:3

mentioned 51:8

152:20 168:2,15

168:20 185:2

204:3 264:3

295:10 303:22

message 62:16

225:1 248:8

249:21

met 78:8 125:10

127:1 273:4

methionine 3:15,17

78:5,11 79:10

80:1,2,11,21 81:4

81:7 85:6,11 86:2

86:7 88:9 89:1,20

90:6 92:1,7,11

93:7 99:12,19

101:11 109:9,11

111:6 112:13

113:2,15 115:18

151:12 180:14

246:11 247:5

248:13 249:1,4

250:9 252:5

253:11,13 257:11

257:15 260:13,17

260:21 262:3,8

264:5,8 268:18,19

271:22 272:3

273:4 276:12

278:12 280:19

281:7,16 282:15

286:14 289:8

300:18

methodology 95:4

mic 237:22

micronutrients

15:13

microphone 181:11

mid 275:6

middle 76:14 87:8

87:11 194:16

255:22

MIEDEMA 1:17

12:20 19:19 21:13

22:15 63:13 90:11

104:18 105:4

106:5,10 117:1

120:9 123:14

154:12 157:19

160:13 163:15,18

165:7 177:8 186:7

216:3 219:3

227:20 229:18,22

230:13 244:13

256:8 259:11

268:4,9 269:1,20

283:8 293:1 296:1

298:21

Miles 2:12 41:16

53:16 75:7 110:20

147:1 318:1 322:5

322:10 325:13

326:5 328:7,10

milk 132:13 136:20

142:12,12,16

143:10,13 144:19

146:5,19

million 165:22

millionth 171:9

mills 267:4

mind 131:12

237:22 253:17

327:10

mineral 119:3

minerals 119:6

307:12 308:4

Minimal 56:5

minimis 189:3

212:12

minimum 142:11

277:5 305:15

minor 25:15

242:14

minority 127:3

129:8,20 130:8,10

130:14,20 132:15

137:22 138:5

148:22

minuscule 190:17

minute 82:1,2

153:4 330:2

minutes 76:13

270:10

mischaracterize

187:9

missed 13:14

139:12 173:16

233:3 287:1

missing 179:1

misspoke 160:14

mistake 137:15

138:1,8

mix 198:9 204:11

204:16

mixing 201:21

modern 6:8

modifications 5:22

6:19

modified 185:9

232:11

modify 261:22

molt 272:9

molybdenum 15:16

moment 220:6

223:20 252:2

money 250:13

258:20

monitoring 314:13

mono 158:18

monobasic 158:15

monolaurate

302:21

month 29:18

306:15

monthly 301:8

months 5:13 9:14

29:13 30:9 307:6

morally 143:3

morning 9:13

17:10 34:15 58:9

58:15 78:9 181:18

mother 145:14

motion 9:21 10:1,3

10:6,7,12 13:13

17:15,16,18,19

18:2,4,6,9 20:12

20:17 21:6,14,18

23:13 46:22 54:18

55:2,8,11 58:19

58:20 64:19 65:5

65:14,16,22 73:10

74:12 79:19 81:13

83:5,6,8,11,12,14

84:3,13,18,21

87:19 89:12 91:20

92:20 93:8 101:7

101:16 104:2,3,6

104:19,21,22

105:1,3,5,13,22

106:1,6,9,11,17

106:21 107:5,18

108:2 112:16

113:10 114:9,15

114:17 115:19

116:7 117:16

119:8,11,16,18,20

122:2,15,20,21

123:7 125:4 127:5

127:10,14 150:15

151:17 154:10,13

154:17 158:5

160:6 165:15

166:21 167:4

177:19 186:15,16

214:22 216:21

219:9 229:5,7,9

230:9 245:12

246:10,12,14,16

247:22 251:5,11

251:14,15,16

258:3,3,3,8,10

260:4,10 269:5,7

271:7,14 278:2,17

280:4,6,8,10,18

281:1,20 284:8,18

285:14 286:2,17

290:13 292:12

294:2 296:6,17

300:1 331:18

332:4,6

motioner 269:14

motions 152:16

MOU 24:18 26:17

27:10,13 28:15

29:14 32:10 34:20

51:19 52:4,12,21

53:13 54:11 57:14

60:5,8,14

mountain 327:13

mouth 214:12

mouths 208:14

move 61:14 81:12

81:16 125:13
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 354

159:20 163:8

166:18 171:6

179:10 186:4

218:21 227:8

249:13,19 253:15

265:8 275:20

279:13 284:22

294:15 295:20

307:3 331:21

moved 54:15 65:18

81:21 93:4 107:17

115:4 123:3 160:1

160:2 186:12

247:9 281:15

296:2 328:19

movement 250:12

moving 19:4 25:13

27:22 28:5 29:6

41:8 43:15 97:12

123:4 152:9

178:22 180:11

318:7

Moyer 1:22 10:5,9

10:17,20 11:10,17

12:1,14 18:3

19:13 22:9 23:18

25:19 26:5 27:5

27:12,15,18,20

31:15 34:2,9 35:1

35:11,20 36:14,19

37:7,10,16,20

38:12 39:10,16,20

40:1,15 41:6,19

42:3,16,22 43:4,7

43:10,14,22 46:10

46:12,16,20 47:10

47:16,19 48:4,7

48:10,14,17,22

49:3,5,11,14,20

50:2,5,9,12,17,21

51:8,12,20 52:3,8

52:15,17 53:5,10

53:21 54:8,22

55:5,13,16,20

56:1,16 57:10,21

58:8,13,20 59:21

60:3,11,18,20

61:11 62:13 63:7

65:15 69:2,21

70:3,6 73:4 77:14

77:15 78:17,21

79:2,5,20 80:4,7,9

80:13,16 81:16

84:5,10,15 85:16

85:21 86:4,12,15

86:18 87:3,6,12

87:16,20 88:11

89:16 91:15,21

93:10 94:8 97:17

97:22 98:15,19

100:20,22 101:13

102:4,14 103:1,6

103:15 104:11,16

104:22 105:8,16

106:8,14,19 107:9

108:18 109:13

116:17 117:20

119:22 121:10,15

121:19 122:4,21

123:9 124:18

125:7,14,19

126:16 127:16

128:6,12,16,20

129:1 132:9 133:3

133:10,14 136:4,8

136:11,15,19

137:21 138:22

139:9 140:5,9,13

141:2,5,21 143:6

145:22 146:4,9,20

147:18 148:2,5

149:1 150:2,12

151:2,11 157:13

165:1 167:20

168:3 169:7,18

177:2 215:19

216:22 222:11

223:1,8 225:8,20

226:3,6 236:8,11

236:18,22 237:4

237:13,18 241:9

244:7 248:19

250:20 251:6,12

251:17,20 252:14

259:5 260:8 261:3

266:8,15 268:21

269:19 270:16

271:2 276:19

279:21 280:5,12

280:22 281:22

283:2 284:20

285:12,19 286:4

291:6,11 292:17

294:6,8 298:15

304:20 306:8

muddled 71:21

mulches 16:6,22

mulching 17:2,8

multifaceted 312:4

multiple 66:13

197:1

multi-year 79:13

mushroom 304:8

mushrooms 304:12

muster 273:5

mutations 67:19

mute 286:6

myriad 198:2

N

N 329:16

naked 257:13

NALLY 2:19

nanotechnology

17:5 313:8,11

narrative 298:4

narrow 15:2,8

135:17 136:2

National 1:2,4,10

4:19 5:4 11:22

32:11 33:2 40:12

40:22 75:14 80:21

136:6 166:8

185:21 209:3

210:14 295:9

308:20 331:19

natural 85:19 86:2

86:11 211:4

naturals 28:3

nature 180:1

187:22 287:19

301:6

nay 115:9

nays 115:10

NEAL 2:16 34:15

35:2,12 36:7 38:7

38:13 40:7,16

43:17 45:3,13,15

46:7 53:15 110:9

112:6,9 148:9

265:22 266:9

273:2 287:1

288:15 290:20

291:3

necessarily 25:22

85:6 152:22

161:17

necessary 86:3

188:3 189:10,13

248:5 261:13

274:16 321:20

need 8:6 17:15

20:15 36:17 49:16

53:8 70:6 77:11

78:19 79:22 81:14

89:21 94:19 95:11

95:13 96:14

106:22 130:10

132:12,20 145:10

152:3 162:16

175:14 178:19

179:12 183:19

211:14 214:3

225:22 237:20

256:22 257:14

261:16 262:2

263:8 268:5,10

272:8,10 275:20

286:15 291:19

302:10 307:15

315:5 323:18

324:8,16 327:4

needed 25:5 59:8

71:5 134:20 161:5

316:4

needing 74:16 94:4

needs 59:6,7,14

74:19 83:13

109:14 210:15

256:5 263:11

266:11 271:22

272:3 315:1

327:19

negative 83:4

148:20 220:12

258:9 282:12

neither 83:9,10

neon 231:5

never 96:19 189:3

194:18 210:14

231:17 274:3

298:11 304:9

314:21 315:3

new 3:13 17:3

18:22 29:1 41:2

43:11,16 75:10

76:1 82:3 112:11

113:1 143:15,15

175:21 182:16

209:16 258:8

288:19 296:13

306:21 307:7

319:11 321:13,16

327:3

news 152:13,13

Newspaper 17:1

nice 75:13 230:14

nickel 303:18

night 32:7,7 85:3

93:17,18 130:19

236:12 240:12

nine 7:13 117:15

182:11

nitrogen 118:17

154:3 223:19

224:5 231:8,10

234:20 235:9

239:4 240:14,19

241:4 243:20

nixed 198:6

Nobody's 216:16

nominate 311:4

non 132:3 140:17

nonagricultural

153:17 203:21
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 355

204:15

nonanoate 303:20

nonconsistent

208:16

noncontroversial

196:20

nonlinear 190:4

nonorganic 166:3

nonreacting 237:11

nonreactive 232:18

nonsynthetic

201:12 203:20

204:12,13,15

211:10 214:1

non-air 158:9

non-English

242:11

non-organic

153:17 158:10

non-organically

165:18

non-saleable

170:18

non-synthetic 3:7

20:20 122:8

187:15 188:9

208:22

non-synthetics

28:4 140:21

153:20

NOP 1:2 44:11

52:14 95:14 96:2

182:14,17,20

183:6,10 184:13

313:21 315:17

319:14,17 330:5

Nope 219:11

NOP/NOSB 322:8

normal 204:1

nos 284:7,12

NOSB 1:5 32:14

96:8,18 175:2

182:19 183:6,7

218:21 295:22

313:4 314:18,20

318:5,19 329:11

331:7

NOSB's 184:14

313:11

note 112:5 235:8

noted 181:18

notes 270:22 331:8

notice 98:6 175:19

314:15

November 4:12

33:20,22 37:16

51:13 55:22 57:16

126:8 129:4 130:4

130:13 147:11

148:20 182:1,17

183:16 185:6

186:6 188:15

191:22 192:5,9,15

192:22 197:21

201:6,10 207:4

213:10 313:21

no's 23:12 122:1

216:20 294:1

NP 314:5

number 31:12

39:17 62:3,6,17

68:14 69:1 94:3

98:6 99:10 161:14

162:5,5,11,13

170:15 201:18

202:9 253:6,8

260:19 263:1

266:20 308:14

309:8 315:18

323:5 327:1

numbers 99:7

183:9 192:16

253:4,5 260:20

266:2,4 267:2,6,8

267:17 270:9,19

270:20 277:10

289:1 305:15

numerous 188:21

nutrient 307:12

308:4

N2 231:18 232:12

O

object 71:19,20

72:2

objection 148:12

148:13 206:3

272:21 279:22

288:9

objections 332:6

objective 28:1,2,5

29:7,16 30:10

31:10 37:4 69:12

objectives 24:13,21

25:9 26:16 36:1,6

37:13 41:8 54:1

56:10 69:22

obligation 41:13

obvious 74:14

225:17

obviously 169:10

181:14 294:13

314:2 316:3

occur 170:13 235:5

occurrence 185:8

occurring 235:1

323:10

octanoate 15:5

119:4

October 81:3 85:14

88:14,15 92:9,15

101:17 102:22

103:8,13 104:8

107:18 108:8

109:9,11,20 110:1

110:5 112:12

113:1,14 247:4

265:9,12 275:4,15

276:13 277:14,18

278:13 279:1

281:5 282:16

284:22 287:6,13

287:18,18 289:17

odd 222:8

offense 310:18,19

office 257:9

official 24:20 25:15

27:4,11 31:1 75:2

319:13

officially 26:14

47:6 311:7

OFPA 7:4 41:13

82:22 84:1 133:17

263:3,9 325:15

oh 10:15 16:8,11

17:18 53:15

184:21 218:10

241:11 285:15

297:19 298:6

320:19

oil 119:3 166:6,7

228:1

oils 15:2,2,3,4,8,9,9

158:20 211:19

302:15

oil-free 154:3,3

okay 9:7 10:2 14:4

16:11,15,16,19

17:13 20:16 21:12

23:20,22 27:19

31:18,18 37:10

38:14 39:19,22

40:3,4 43:13 44:2

44:4,5 45:14 46:6

47:8,12,18 48:5

48:18 49:4 50:4

50:11 51:7 54:14

55:7,14 56:1

58:11 60:1,6,9,10

60:19 61:13 62:21

63:1 66:21 69:17

70:8,17 72:7 75:5

76:12 77:10 79:4

85:18,22 86:15,20

87:5,15 89:13

93:4 100:5 101:15

103:7,18,21,22

104:17 105:4

106:18 107:6,6,10

107:16,21 109:16

110:3 112:8,17,21

114:15,21 115:1,3

115:11 116:1

120:3 121:20

122:18 128:5,21

129:1 136:14

137:2 140:3,11

141:11 142:1

148:9 150:11

152:7 156:6

160:22 165:17

167:14,17 177:20

178:1,15 180:8,15

181:12 185:1

199:12 200:1,22

201:4 202:4

206:10 208:14

212:18 213:10

215:13 217:2,14

221:16 222:2,9

224:20 225:10

226:5 229:22

230:19 231:20

232:4 234:1

235:18 238:5

246:8 247:3 258:6

261:3,20 264:20

268:16 269:20

271:13,18 272:14

279:4,12,18 280:1

280:17 284:15

285:17,21 286:1

289:10 291:15

292:10,11 297:15

298:6 301:11

304:10,17 306:2

308:10 310:3,4

312:7,12 313:2,6

320:21 321:1,8

331:12,15

OMRI 319:6

once 44:20 66:10

165:21 170:14

171:22 197:22

204:10 207:20

220:9 226:17

257:12 275:2

ones 16:3 39:10,12

48:19 49:17

306:21 323:15

one's 168:13

one-stop 171:2

ongoing 194:17

online 5:16

open 26:3,10 33:20
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 356

34:12 97:9 187:2

289:12

operate 26:18

operating 29:14

operations 70:3

96:7 174:15 175:6

opinion 67:14

127:4 129:9,20

130:8,10,14,20

132:15 137:22

138:5 148:22,22

187:3 191:18

197:4 210:5 220:5

220:16 221:19,20

221:20 290:18

291:16

opinions 129:10

opportunities

237:5 317:19

opportunity 24:5

27:21 28:16 56:17

68:9 89:9 111:3

130:21 255:7,10

256:2 263:5 330:6

opposed 115:8

134:12 136:3

144:20 147:15

222:7 233:5

326:11

opposing 116:3,4,4

opposite 207:14

option 287:16

325:1

options 32:4,5

orange 166:12

order 69:6 82:6,11

83:20 104:19

146:4 178:9

238:14 289:21,22

301:20 322:22

Oregon 238:10

organ 165:21

organic 1:2,4,10

3:8 4:16 5:4 14:6

17:22 20:21 21:2

32:19 33:2,10

38:10 45:17 49:2

62:7,18 72:17

76:22 81:2 92:8

95:5 96:6,12

101:16 109:18,19

109:22 113:2,15

122:14 132:18

135:10,13 136:21

136:22 142:13,17

153:19,20 158:12

158:12 159:1,2,5

159:6,14,15

161:19 166:7

169:1,3,10 170:2

170:7,8,11,16

171:4,21 172:14

172:16 173:6,20

174:16,16 175:18

179:14 187:20

188:4 191:3,12

192:8 194:9 198:4

198:6 204:7 206:3

206:4,8,12,14

207:1 208:9

210:14 214:6

218:5 219:2

232:10 238:14

247:6 258:19

273:22 281:4

285:4 313:11

317:18 319:14

320:2 329:9

organics 32:11

67:8 75:14 331:19

organization 320:4

organized 26:14

original 31:6 58:14

98:12 99:10 105:5

108:11 151:17

163:12 197:16

247:22 248:22

250:17 251:1,15

254:15 256:14

257:21 258:10

originally 52:19

82:16 160:21

222:13 252:19

260:17 262:5

316:16

OTC 273:13

ought 223:10,13

outcome 79:17

80:7 305:15

outcomes 189:18

outlines 69:22

outlining 54:1

outreach 173:11

outs 196:14

outside 44:22 45:4

161:7 243:17

overall 24:12 25:8

204:20

overly 68:1

overwhelming

72:16

oxidation 235:1,4

oxides 15:14

oxygen 154:3

218:11 219:16

220:4,9 229:1,3

229:12 230:8

233:4 234:20

235:11 239:10,15

239:22 240:3

241:12,13 242:15

oxytocin 118:18

ozone 159:6

P

package 55:19

224:9

packaging 218:8,9

219:22 220:3

222:14,19 223:5

226:9 228:16,22

229:2,11 230:6,7

233:5,6 234:4

235:10 239:18,19

242:15

page 6:21 8:1 244:4

314:7

pages 184:21

217:13

pain 134:18,19

140:2 142:21

143:5,13 144:15

144:20,22 145:2,3

145:9,18,19

pains 135:20

pair 8:2

paper 17:1 305:11

paraciticides

118:18 143:20,22

paragraph 28:1,5

29:6,8 30:10,12

36:18 148:3

paragraphs 29:22

parameters 318:14

paraphrase 104:2

parasiticide 119:1

139:15 142:16

144:20

parasiticides 134:8

139:20 142:9

parliamentary

82:8 115:1

part 7:8 34:18 57:7

60:5,8,20 67:5

77:12 78:1 87:12

98:4,12 99:11,13

100:2 119:18

126:2 131:22

132:4 138:16,18

162:16 187:12,17

188:13 201:8

209:17 225:4,22

241:17 254:4

267:22 279:10

295:22 297:5

310:6 320:1

participants 250:8

participate 47:6,11

participating

273:11

participation 181:5

particular 21:1

57:5 131:16 135:4

135:8 250:22

252:15 290:22

particularly 71:11

86:6 129:19 135:7

300:17

parties 6:12 27:17

151:19

party 76:21 331:13

pass 7:12,13,14

83:10 89:5,9

273:5 279:8 284:8

324:13

passed 130:4

148:20 185:6

192:4 313:22

314:18 328:18

passes 13:13 20:12

20:17 23:13 64:19

74:12 87:19

117:17 122:2

125:4 150:15

158:5 165:15

177:19 183:15

216:21 245:12

251:16 284:8

294:2 300:1

passing 77:8 83:14

Pasture 275:5

path 193:17

pattern 45:5

patterns 45:1

189:16

Patti 317:18

pause 114:10

peaches 159:10

160:19 161:3

pectin 307:1

peeling 159:9,10

160:19 161:2

pencils 7:1

people 8:11,18

25:21 68:3 89:20

110:15 116:3

131:4,12 169:12

172:21 178:22

187:6 203:5

208:19 256:20

257:4 261:11,18

262:7 274:2

287:10 290:16

313:4 323:5 324:3

pepper 166:13
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 357

perceived 145:20

percent 81:7 130:7

136:22 198:4

223:16,22 224:4

235:14,17 236:5

237:9 238:15,19

240:13 317:12

percentage 206:22

perfect 30:3 172:18

174:1 302:7

period 29:11,17,19

29:20 30:1 100:10

101:3,10 112:10

141:8 183:4 220:8

235:5 252:21

280:20

periods 114:5

perlite 154:4

peroxide 14:15

15:7 118:17

158:21

peroxyacetic/per...

118:19

perpetual 257:6

person 5:16 19:4,5

130:19 138:6

151:16 199:3

personal 74:15

210:5 273:15

personally 72:19

131:14

perspective 34:16

35:19 36:2 171:3

174:14 248:21

persuaded 129:20

pertain 136:2

pertinent 82:22

232:13

pest 59:12

pesticide 318:12,22

pesticides 23:16

188:21 212:21

petition 3:15 9:17

10:18 11:2,11,14

41:1,21 49:5 50:9

78:5,19 79:9,15

80:2,11,20 81:13

81:22 82:10 84:7

88:13 90:4 94:14

162:12 163:8

170:15 179:15

194:21 249:16,17

252:4 254:8,18

255:11,12 257:6

262:19,21 276:1

276:18 277:19

286:15 288:5

290:1,5,22 301:5

303:2,7,9,17

306:12 307:3,21

309:14 311:14

314:18 315:21

petitioned 4:18

40:14 43:12,16

45:9 290:7 295:8

315:4

petitioner 46:1

49:9 87:9 103:5

170:6,9 179:20

petitioners 170:7

315:13

petitioning 45:16

302:10

petitions 49:9

286:9 302:9 303:2

307:8 314:5

PGML 302:20

phase 94:1,16,16

95:1,1,1 96:15,16

97:3,4 100:9,9,14

101:2,2,10,11

103:19,20,20

111:7,12

phased 93:21

phases 102:12

104:12

phasing 111:8

philosophic 234:12

philosophical

193:15 194:4

197:4

philosophy 195:20

phone 6:8 74:17,17

phosphate 3:3 9:16

10:4,11 159:12

303:1

phosphates 158:14

phosphoric 118:20

phrase 28:13 111:5

picked 253:4

picture 234:3

328:12

pictures 76:3

piece 29:1 287:20

320:2

pieces 34:21

piglets 131:7,9,9

pinch 98:10 99:5

pinching 252:22

place 30:20 37:20

44:20 51:13 60:3

75:6 109:9 171:2

184:2 200:17

213:14,15 214:6,9

214:10,12 242:4

285:17 289:8

297:18

placement 161:13

plan 301:17 302:2

302:4,6 313:7,9

317:14,21 318:12

321:12 322:20

324:19 325:6,10

planning 174:21

179:2

plans 162:17

178:18 301:13,15

306:4 316:9

322:11

plant 15:6,11,12

222:5 224:7

Plants 3:11 65:3,20

71:4

plaque 75:13

plaques 3:13 75:9

75:17 76:2

plastic 17:1,8

plate 147:21 148:6

platform 24:18

27:1

play 71:13 100:11

277:2 310:13

playing 168:19

194:4

please 6:6,9,17 7:1

7:22 13:18,19,20

16:13,18 17:12

75:8 76:1 77:2

88:4 117:18

122:19 125:6,12

152:9 197:16

246:14 247:16

254:6 261:5

265:22 284:17,18

285:14 301:15

306:3 328:10

329:2

plug 267:9

plus 321:13

point 10:17 13:19

13:19 25:15 26:16

36:2 38:17 39:5

40:7 46:1 50:22

71:14,15 87:16

88:9 94:11 96:17

101:3,11 104:18

111:20 112:3

115:18 136:19

139:2 143:18

147:18 153:11

156:11 170:12

172:8 188:9 189:6

191:2,9,19 194:7

194:7,10 195:11

196:16 207:13,21

209:1 210:7 222:4

223:17 226:4

236:4 238:17

239:9 247:19

249:17 250:20

252:15 257:7

268:20 277:3

286:7 289:21,22

295:5,14 301:11

306:13 311:4

pointed 312:5

pointing 191:5

239:6 324:22

points 66:13,17

85:4 264:21

322:15

poison 190:1

policy 4:18 33:2

41:18 42:5 43:6

44:20 294:15

295:15,22 296:4

296:12 300:3

308:11 311:21

312:9 321:9,11,17

321:22 322:7

324:20 325:2

326:2

poloxalene 118:20

polycaprolactone

302:12

polysulfide 15:2

ponying 250:12

portion 211:5

246:19 287:3,17

322:6

portions 128:15

position 250:1

301:6

positioned 126:2

positions 290:21

possesses 185:10

possibility 79:16

278:8 303:16

possible 59:7 85:10

87:1 96:3 110:14

183:2 194:11

253:2,21 263:7

300:20 306:5

327:14 329:1

possibly 139:13

152:11 194:22

305:12 327:5

post 32:15 36:1

276:4

posted 58:22

171:15 174:11

278:12

posting 6:22 28:12

28:22 29:3

postponing 137:5
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 358

post-harvest

158:16 238:20

post-NOSB 76:21

pot 68:20

potassium 15:10

21:4 154:5 159:6

159:7,7,8,12

160:17 163:13

potato 166:15

167:13

potential 13:17

34:20 89:12 170:4

199:17 219:16

263:7 272:18

276:8

potentially 100:3

112:9 289:16

291:2

potentials 304:11

poultry 81:2,10

86:7 92:9,14,19

101:16 103:11,13

109:18,20,22

113:2,15 247:6

253:15 263:4

281:4,10,19

282:16,19 285:4,8

285:15 288:10

289:3

pounds 81:6,9,10

81:11 92:12,13,14

92:18,19 103:10

103:12,13 112:10

265:3,11,14,15

280:20 281:8,9,10

281:18 282:17,17

282:18 285:7,8

powder 166:6

powerful 228:11

practical 187:11

practice 141:13,18

141:20 142:4

163:19 202:16

203:2 295:13

301:16

practices 95:3,17

95:18,20 141:22

204:2 209:5

248:14 261:22

262:1

pragmatic 141:12

Prairie 170:7

179:14 258:19

precautionary

190:14

prefer 187:21

preference 107:4

182:4 184:3 278:4

prematurely 324:4

Prepared 55:16

prescribe 35:14

prescriptive 68:2,6

present 1:14 2:10

160:17 229:5

294:20 308:14

presentation 3:13

75:7 152:22

presented 65:11,13

65:20 79:7 82:15

82:16 125:22

196:3 215:2 218:2

290:22 308:12

321:14 323:1

presenting 47:1

225:15

presently 211:12

presents 308:13

preserving 202:2

presiding 1:13

presumably 140:20

presumption

144:14

pretend 151:4

pretty 42:4,6 60:13

68:5 109:8 134:11

153:9 173:14

196:18 209:15

230:14 234:17

241:14 276:1

290:7 304:2

325:15

prevent 142:5

233:18 234:14

238:16

preventative 142:4

prevents 135:6

previous 29:21

44:10,14 96:21

137:15 139:13

141:7 148:19

182:13 192:3

196:13 276:2

323:6

previously 164:5

primarily 134:17

primary 105:3

principle 66:18

202:16

printed 162:7,8

prior 40:10 44:18

142:11 183:5

298:4

prioritize 182:15

183:10

prioritized 314:8

priority 303:3

privately 261:12

privilege 77:20

probable 87:2

probably 110:17

169:20 170:20

175:16 179:22

206:2 255:1 271:3

273:14,17 275:20

287:13 288:16

313:3 317:4

318:15 326:12

330:15

probe 25:16

problem 96:20,22

96:22 187:19

197:15 204:6

222:20 226:16

228:13 259:1

263:2 277:13

problems 279:10

procaine 119:3

procedural 46:13

185:3

Procedurally 269:2

procedure 82:8

115:2 295:16,21

322:7

procedures 82:11

319:3

proceed 6:6 18:21

19:1,3 21:22 66:5

73:2 77:11 79:21

83:20 84:1 90:14

117:18 123:12

162:13 242:4,6

247:16 258:2

263:17 272:22

278:3,18 304:19

proceeding 156:16

311:13

process 6:6,11 9:15

18:22 25:5,7,11

27:2 30:20 32:15

33:1,5 37:22

40:16 41:2,14,22

44:16 45:9 48:16

50:10 72:8 82:10

83:16 84:1 94:4,6

94:7,10,13,14

95:22 98:18 99:15

99:17 135:12

154:16 159:12

162:12,15 163:8

166:5 170:13

173:11 181:2

182:14,18,21

184:1 187:12,16

189:7,11,14

190:21 191:7

193:20 194:21

211:1,8 220:15

223:3 224:2 227:5

227:8 229:13

233:16 235:3

238:17 248:1,3,9

249:2,10 254:8,14

254:19,22 255:8,9

262:20 263:16

267:16 273:3,12

275:2,10 276:9

284:19 286:13

289:5 290:11

294:19 295:7,7

315:21 326:8

processed 153:18

158:11 165:20

205:1

processes 37:19

56:13 155:7

processing 43:19

59:11 62:7 154:5

170:1 185:19

201:20 203:18

220:1,7,10 221:7

221:12,15 222:4,5

222:16,18 223:15

223:15 224:3,7,12

224:16 226:10,12

227:4,9,22 228:12

230:5 233:4,6,15

238:12,14,22

239:1,13,15,17,19

240:5

processing-centric

203:16

processor 128:18

process-driven

189:8 194:19

produced 158:19

161:17 162:1

165:18 204:21

producer 142:7

producers 171:22

267:5 289:3

produces 86:7

producing 172:15

224:7

product 39:15

45:10 111:10,22

135:4 198:5 202:5

204:5,7,20 205:1

205:13 206:19,21

207:1 209:4,6

211:4,9 213:22

224:5,8 234:21

235:8 237:6 329:9

production 3:8,11

14:6 18:1 20:21

32:19 33:11 45:18
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 359

62:7,19 65:2,19

71:3,8 81:3 85:7

85:10 86:1 92:9

95:5 96:6 101:17

109:18,20 110:1

113:3,15 122:9,14

142:12 159:11

166:16 172:14

247:6 261:22

262:1 281:5

308:18

productionists

96:12

products 3:24 4:2

4:15 15:14,17

45:1 125:9 126:22

142:12 153:19

158:11,22 159:1,4

159:6,13,14

165:19,20 172:16

185:15,20 192:17

198:2 201:12

204:22 218:4

219:1 305:21

profitable 194:9

program 1:2 24:6

25:2,10 26:6,11

36:4 41:3 53:13

53:18,19 54:9

57:14 61:5 67:10

97:19 108:22

132:6 133:6 147:5

147:22 173:9

182:8 210:9,14

220:20 225:16

226:20 232:16

241:22 254:3

263:6 273:1,16

277:8 278:5,9,17

278:19 286:22

290:16 294:12

297:10 300:10,18

308:6,12 311:19

312:7 315:11,20

318:7,17 319:4,6

319:7,10 320:8,13

323:7,8 326:22

327:17 329:12

programs 273:22

318:15 319:3,18

Program's 174:13

progress 101:5

prohibit 313:10

prohibited 3:7

20:21 21:2 49:17

96:5 122:9 132:3

133:21 140:20

144:12 159:1,5,8

159:14

prohibition 71:6

prohibitions 21:7

21:17

promise 150:22

promising 94:18

prompt 98:11

proof 194:1

propellant 239:5

241:16

propelling 240:3

proper 51:2 87:1

94:22 95:8 114:10

126:10 129:22

135:10 220:22

properly 55:8

65:21 119:14

186:12 247:9

312:3

proposal 97:2

100:8

propose 97:3 100:8

105:18 265:8

310:21

proposed 92:2,4

144:10 269:6

proposing 102:6

109:6 194:20

195:2 265:7

propylene 302:20

proves 46:4

provide 46:3 111:2

274:17,18 290:20

290:21

provided 81:3

142:8

provides 183:7

256:19

providing 273:4

public 5:15,19 6:3

9:19 61:4 67:6,14

67:15,18 72:16

75:16 82:14 86:6

89:18 128:1,8

129:2,12 130:22

131:1,1 139:2

171:14 175:19

176:2 184:14

185:13,15 189:12

189:17 193:8

198:14 201:2

206:4 207:10

221:1 253:6 254:4

273:12 300:9

313:18 314:14

315:5 317:17

322:19 323:14

331:4

publicly 79:11

public's 262:7

published 275:5

316:12

pull 151:9

pulled 266:20

290:4 305:20

pullet 271:22

pullets 260:22

261:10 265:3,4,15

272:1

pulling 77:19

pun 220:13

purest 194:11

purpose 182:22

223:12 224:11

234:14

purposes 49:8

235:11

pursue 261:16

323:20 324:9,15

purview 161:8

push 234:20

pushing 254:1

put 32:2 61:3,6

86:6 96:16,18

102:21 129:17

130:18 131:2

133:5 137:9

138:20 152:21

160:15,21 161:20

161:21 168:5,10

168:13 184:21

188:7 208:14

214:9,12 228:4

234:20 236:19

237:10 252:7

258:6 266:13

278:13 286:14,18

289:5 301:17

308:12 309:17

318:12 327:6

330:20

puts 99:16,16

100:19 102:20

146:21 256:16

257:5 277:1

putting 99:20

112:9,14 125:15

132:17 187:3

193:16 205:5

248:8 249:10

260:13 267:20

288:19 289:13

295:14 301:5

318:4,7 319:5

pyrophosphate

306:17,18

P-R-O-C-E-E-D-...

5:1

p.m 245:16,18

246:2 332:8

Q

quality 315:22

328:4

question 18:14

25:13 39:5 42:16

45:3 46:14 47:9

49:16 50:14 51:17

52:13 56:1 62:22

71:14 79:20,21

88:1,20 90:3

94:21 97:19 98:1

98:2 100:1 105:16

111:7,9 120:3

131:19 132:22

136:1 138:18

139:16 141:12

147:5 148:11,13

151:12 161:12

163:22 169:22

170:20 175:15

176:8 191:7

197:13 198:19

199:16 210:20

212:14 214:22

222:11 225:13

233:1 236:8

240:16 243:7

256:9 260:17,19

271:20 272:16

274:20 282:2

290:13,15 291:14

323:9

questioned 230:20

questioning 87:22

questions 55:17

59:2 72:22 88:20

89:15 120:2

125:19 140:16

147:3 153:12

160:10 167:7

186:9,12 196:8

210:2 219:13

275:9,9 287:12

288:22 289:12

290:17 291:13

302:14 303:13,15

308:15,16 309:18

311:12,16 325:2

queue 314:7

quick 36:17 159:11

295:6 311:2

quickly 14:7

183:13 247:19

300:20 329:2

quiet 181:9

quite 24:9 221:6,10
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 360

234:19 306:11

308:2,19 314:2

quo 137:16

quorum 7:7,10

R

rabbit 188:18

218:14 238:16

radon 231:5

RAGONESI 2:13

raise 93:19 268:14

323:5

raised 38:20

311:13,16 325:2

raises 308:15

raising 267:5

rally 208:20

ramifications

131:5 132:19

ran 7:16

rancidity 233:18

234:15

range 15:3,8 131:7

134:3

rat 188:20,20

rate 80:19 305:11

rates 103:1,2

ration 92:11 281:7

rational 224:18

rationale 266:10

reaches 170:12

reaching 70:14

173:1

react 234:3,6 240:9

240:18 241:6,7

reaction 266:19

reactive 232:13

read 15:20 16:16

17:6 31:19 32:6

41:13 60:9 80:19

80:22 92:2,3

138:19 142:3

153:11 159:21

246:15

readers 224:21

reading 8:2 95:14

114:4 118:2

143:19 223:4

246:22 247:1

331:17

reads 162:10

185:18 241:15

ready 5:8,17 7:2

62:22 88:20

113:21 120:3

154:21 163:22

176:7 214:21

217:20,22 218:1

243:6 246:4,8

272:16 274:20

282:2 291:13

301:15 303:4

317:4

reaffirmation

138:2

real 95:2 129:14

295:6 309:16

reality 37:13 197:3

realized 76:14,16

233:14

realizes 111:18

really 8:13,16

26:12 27:1 35:4

35:12 54:20 68:4

68:18 88:8 95:13

112:2 114:1,3,6,7

137:16 138:8,18

139:12,17 145:15

173:19 183:15,22

185:3,4 187:2

189:3,7 191:11,14

197:3 202:9

210:14 217:7

246:18 250:5,5

253:1 270:7

310:20 318:18

324:10 325:7,22

327:20 331:5

realm 189:16 191:9

reason 56:9 82:21

126:19 130:17

134:21 155:9

227:6 233:18

248:21 262:17

reasonable 46:8

189:1,2 279:20

reasonableness

232:20

reasoning 260:21

reasons 7:18

250:16

reasserts 130:11

rebuild 276:16

recalculate 282:11

recall 31:22

received 128:1

182:19 276:2

288:12 302:13

303:7,8,17 306:14

306:18 307:8

315:6 322:18

324:20

reclassification

40:11 41:4 202:19

reclassified 40:9,10

40:18,22 43:18

recognition 319:13

recognize 119:19

188:2 189:7,15

207:17 208:16

255:19

recognized 187:22

recommend 33:8

274:12 276:10

279:5

recommendation

3:2,5,17 4:4,6,8

4:12 9:16 10:1,3,9

14:3 15:21 21:16

28:6 34:17,19

48:19 49:13 50:15

52:10,11,20 53:3

53:7,18 54:6 58:7

58:9,12 63:2

78:20 80:3,10,18

84:4,8,20 87:10

88:14 91:22 92:2

92:3,5,21 93:5

94:2 101:14

102:20,20 104:7

119:9,13 122:12

122:16,22 123:5

127:6,12 129:3

130:12 132:1,8,11

133:5 137:9,15,17

139:13 147:10,20

147:21 148:15,19

160:3 167:1

182:17,19,22

183:3,11,17 186:6

192:1,10 214:19

215:1 219:6,21

220:2 226:20

228:4 229:11

230:4 248:22

250:18 251:1

252:20 253:14

256:15 257:18

260:11 262:9

265:1 267:15,22

270:5 273:7 276:2

277:8 287:17

288:11 294:17,19

296:3 298:4 308:5

313:9,22 317:5

321:6 322:21

324:21

recommendations

3:2,6,14 4:4 5:11

5:14 6:17 20:19

82:13 152:15

175:2 178:20

274:9 276:5

278:11 279:7

300:7 318:6,10

recommended

32:13 120:5 182:1

184:2 307:17

recommending

130:5 131:13

185:17

reconsider 20:15

89:12

reconvene 245:17

record 16:7,10 59:6

61:4 76:10 160:16

161:5 178:13

221:1 225:17,19

271:1

recusal 4:9,10

180:10 236:1

recusals 7:17 13:15

recuse 155:9

Recused 179:16

recycled 17:1

red 28:20

reduce 62:17

256:17

reduction 62:2,6

reestablish 295:15

reevaluation

162:15

refeathering

272:11

refer 16:14,18

17:12 109:17

188:18 229:2

reference 28:10

29:17 39:3 144:14

144:18 147:19

231:18 298:2

306:6

references 29:18

273:19 274:13

309:10

referencing 44:9

144:15 291:7

296:13

referred 218:9

232:1 239:7

referring 213:9

refers 308:17

refine 315:5

refining 85:15

reflected 270:9

reflects 256:4

reformulate 305:22

reformulation

29:19

refrain 6:7,9

regard 219:22

248:14 296:17

regarding 7:3

10:10 40:20 42:10

63:3 80:10 89:19
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 361

127:13 134:10

183:7 280:18

282:6 296:4

300:17 308:12

309:5,12

Regardless 221:16

regards 185:14

192:6,15

Register 98:6

266:14 314:14

regroup 114:3

regulation 133:18

138:15 214:5

226:19 238:13

239:8 263:15

264:13 316:19

regulations 287:8

regulatory 131:22

132:4,22 137:6,10

142:15 183:18

reinstate 249:18

295:7

reinstated 249:6

reiterate 163:5

reiterated 169:6

reject 137:11

relate 195:14

related 185:11

262:2 307:11

315:18

relates 227:12

295:8

relationship 87:17

relatively 196:20

197:9

relevant 178:20

183:1 190:11

196:8 206:11

318:16

relight 34:4

religion 180:7

relist 11:20 14:11

21:2,15 30:22

31:3,4,18 33:20

37:17 38:3 51:15

96:17 122:20

123:1,5 154:15

160:3 166:22

260:12 286:15

relisted 98:5

relisting 10:10 11:9

11:15 17:20 18:8

101:3 120:4

154:16 159:20

160:4 162:6 164:1

166:18 282:15

relists 11:21

reluctant 149:16

267:8

remained 40:19

remaining 34:21

212:12 302:5

remains 81:5

remarks 195:8

remember 194:6

214:15 220:19

remembered

298:10

remembering

252:2

remind 6:15

150:21 270:3

304:4 326:20

328:9

reminder 331:13

reminding 235:21

reminds 331:9

removal 50:6

remove 9:18 10:18

11:14 28:7,7

29:18 50:2 138:12

173:22 303:1,3

306:22

removed 10:22

49:22

removing 29:16

50:5

reopened 260:10

repair 94:5

repellents 14:19

repetition 99:15

248:5 277:12

repetitioned 249:5

rephrase 122:19

replace 28:13

29:20 30:8 265:9

324:3

replaced 29:9

replacement 29:2

30:5 233:4 242:11

323:10

replacing 31:17

265:12

report 301:8

reposition 181:11

represent 248:20

representative

310:22

represented 142:13

representing 143:7

represents 189:1

request 6:15

151:15 152:10

253:15 300:15

312:7 318:11

320:14 321:16

322:5

requested 171:15

180:1 184:13

276:1 277:6 323:6

requesting 253:9

253:12

requests 319:7

328:13

require 7:4,16

100:9 101:3

105:11 248:3

required 7:4 83:22

182:4 214:5

312:16

requirement

238:13 325:21

requirements 52:2

52:14 174:22

requires 7:12,13,14

7:15 83:3

requiring 142:20

reread 285:17

research 94:18

97:9 98:11 101:4

248:10,11 249:20

250:12 253:2,19

254:2 261:17

289:1

researched 231:15

residue 212:8

213:5 318:13,22

residues 211:8

212:11

resin 154:7

resist 68:21

respect 46:8 95:9

129:10 191:18

274:14 307:11

respectfully 5:14

74:18 191:19

195:13 267:13

326:22

respond 53:19

131:19

responded 67:15

168:13

responding 199:15

290:1

response 61:15

72:16 97:16

130:22 183:11

190:2 268:12

276:19 278:4

290:4

responses 190:4

responsive 6:2

responsiveness

5:19

rest 47:3 133:17

241:15 246:4

263:11 284:9

322:19 323:19

restate 58:19

restaurant 236:13

restraining 135:1

restrict 141:19

restricted 140:4

restrictions 264:5

289:13

result 80:6 186:2

212:7 252:4

resulting 185:9

results 32:10

117:15

resumed 76:11

178:14

retail 224:9

retailer 155:19

316:12,13,20,21

316:21

retain 248:6

retains 136:21

258:10

retract 139:5

retreat 195:13

return 151:12

173:18 189:6

reveal 155:11

reveals 179:20

review 16:2 41:12

41:22 50:6,7

112:2 136:16

153:9 154:16

162:6 163:12

183:8,10,18

190:16 247:19

249:11 273:13

275:10 303:18

315:20 327:8

reviewed 48:9,16

82:14 200:5

reviewing 147:15

175:22 182:21

319:14

reviews 306:14

revisit 89:10

revisiting 305:10

revote 130:11

reworked 58:7

rewritten 31:11

re-annotate 94:12

re-listed 154:11

rick 228:6

right 9:8 10:19

16:12 22:2 25:6

25:19 27:5,7

28:21 34:8 35:14

36:7 37:9,15,18

38:7,13 39:7
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 362

42:22 49:7 51:18

61:12 70:2,8,14

74:21 77:13 80:4

80:16 85:10 86:1

87:20 88:10 89:6

97:20 98:8,15,19

100:20,21 102:11

102:16 104:9

106:12,13 110:20

114:4,7,11 115:15

115:18 126:1,6

127:22 128:16,20

136:7,10,18 137:9

137:17 138:15

139:9,22 140:8,19

144:7,13 145:6,14

146:3,8,20 154:9

161:15 162:6

167:22 184:10

195:17 199:20

202:15 207:9

208:13 210:15

211:21 212:2,3

213:1,11,20

214:17,22 215:6

227:22 229:21

231:16 233:11,20

234:7,9 240:15

241:1,3,4 243:2,3

251:12 253:20

264:14 266:8

268:13,21 269:8

270:2 271:1 272:2

276:11 280:18

282:9 292:5,8

315:12 320:11

323:22 325:1,6

rigorous 112:2

Riherd 1:23 12:8

19:7 23:9 64:8

74:4 75:18 91:9

116:11 121:4

124:12 149:18

157:7 164:17

176:18 215:9,12

243:11 258:13

284:3 293:18

299:15 332:3

ripening 158:17

risk 61:2 189:3

196:15 287:14

risk-mitigation

191:8

road 89:22 162:16

188:11 195:5

211:13

roads 195:9

Robert's 82:6,11

83:19

role 95:19

rolled 312:17

room 76:16,17,18

174:21 175:7

199:3 208:19

rotation 323:9

rough 310:20

round 124:8 317:4

routinely 134:18

140:9

rule 31:5 32:2,20

49:21 142:15

146:15 181:19

182:3,9,14,18

183:1,5,20 243:19

243:21 266:12

275:3,5

rulemaking 68:8

68:19 72:8 232:19

rules 82:6,11 83:20

174:3 274:18

rule-making 275:2

279:9

run 76:17 162:3

279:10 287:14

314:10 318:21

S

Sacramento 77:1

329:17 331:13

safety 234:13 304:8

304:11

sailing 300:21

sales 243:21

salts 21:4

sanitizer 238:18

sanitizers 14:13

118:6

sat 67:16 138:18

satisfy 169:11

sausage 168:21

169:2,3

save 278:12

saw 127:2 173:15

295:19

saying 29:22 37:11

52:8 53:12 102:17

112:12 146:1

190:10 195:9

223:14 226:13

253:20 261:15

262:16 266:6

277:4 280:9

says 24:17 28:13,22

29:9 30:9 31:6

39:5,10,17 41:18

43:15 115:2 139:7

140:18 160:20

182:16 185:7

230:5

scattered 66:16

scenario 187:8

schedule 75:6

122:7 152:7 178:2

178:18,21 246:6

310:13 323:12

324:5 325:16

scheduling 310:19

science 143:3

scientific 99:3

253:3

scientifically

261:19

scopes 319:21,21

screen 114:5

scroll 60:1,8,9,10

181:19 304:16

scrutiny 166:1

sea 159:3

seal 317:7

search 194:2

searching 194:16

267:1

seated 5:6

seaweed 166:17

second 10:5 18:3

21:13 55:4 65:15

69:11 79:16 81:18

81:19 86:13 87:1

87:2,19 89:5,8

93:1,2 100:14,16

100:18 103:8,20

104:21 105:6

106:22 107:12,14

112:18 113:11

114:19,20 119:10

122:17 127:7,8,9

141:11 151:17

154:12 159:22

166:20 180:21

186:7,8,15 192:13

198:19 207:8

219:4 247:8 252:3

269:7,16 271:14

278:13 280:11

281:11,12,13

284:9,18 285:10

285:21,22 286:19

287:3 288:12

290:9,13 296:1

300:17 316:17

317:1 332:2,3

secondary 105:3

seconded 10:8 18:7

21:15 55:9 65:18

65:21 81:21 93:5

104:20 107:17

115:4 119:12,14

123:3 127:11

154:14 160:2,2

166:22 186:13

219:6 247:10

280:14 281:15

296:3 332:5

seconding 123:4

Secretary 1:17

9:11 10:2,14,19

11:1,5,13 12:18

14:1 16:8,11,15

16:19,22 17:13,17

18:5,11,18 19:17

20:18 21:12,20

22:13 23:14 33:15

34:8 36:22 37:8

37:15,18,21 54:22

56:19 61:2 63:11

64:21 65:12 66:2

66:20,22 68:16

69:16,18 72:12

73:8 75:1 88:6

90:9 93:1 116:21

119:10 120:7

124:22 130:16

150:6 157:17

165:5 177:6

199:19 200:12

211:17,22 212:3

216:1 244:11

256:13 259:9

268:11,14,17

280:15 281:13

283:6 285:22

289:22 292:21

298:19 302:1

304:7,15 329:21

secrets 173:4

section 18:8 122:7

122:11 127:13

147:13 148:17

153:16 181:19

184:10 185:21

209:15 308:21

sectors 26:4

see 8:3 18:15 24:14

28:18 35:6 36:9

52:7,14 54:2 56:3

57:9,10,12 77:2

78:13 79:6 101:4

118:14 126:9

174:7 175:20

179:5 185:10

187:8 190:4 195:5

209:10 214:18

222:12,20 223:5

224:12,17 249:15

249:17 257:12
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 363

278:19 316:8

320:5 321:22

329:3 330:4

seeds 174:16 175:1

seeing 12:4 18:21

21:22 64:14 66:4

72:22 121:21

123:11 148:13

176:9 189:21

190:3 258:2

275:11 298:12

332:7

seek 89:18 189:9

seen 26:19 173:15

231:17 295:4

sees 41:9 223:2

segment 171:6

segregate 170:4

segregation 170:3

selenium 15:16

sell 140:20

send 15:22 199:14

250:22 303:14,19

309:21

sending 249:21

sends 248:7

sense 172:12

222:14 256:4

sensibilities 208:7

208:8

sensitivities 189:16

sent 17:3,9 302:13

302:19,21

sentence 24:15,17

25:12 112:12

113:1,13 130:5,6

138:6,19 139:4,5

145:12 147:16

148:18,21 184:11

192:12,13 207:8

212:14,17 213:4,6

243:1 246:19,19

247:2

sentences 242:12

sentiment 67:6

330:17

separate 33:11

50:19 152:16

153:2,6 279:11

separately 49:10

separation 14:4

separator 201:22

septic 135:6

serious 97:11

seriously 69:11

seriousness 247:21

serve 24:18

service 1:1 75:11

75:16

session 5:4,5 76:15

set 67:11 257:9

288:3 323:13

325:18

setting 118:11,12

settled 253:5

seven 7:16 26:20

shake 68:8

shaking 137:8

shalt 53:7

SHANNON 2:19

sharing 46:9

Shea 8:14

sheets 8:5 274:15

shellac 166:12

shift 97:4

shifted 162:16

shifts 111:21

ship 300:20

shock 135:6

shopping 171:2

short 110:14

shortchange 181:4

shortly 306:19

short-lived 313:3

show 111:21

shown 30:14

250:10

shows 28:20 229:2

sick 132:4

sickness 142:5

side 7:21 59:8,11

172:5,14 188:22

214:11 253:7,9

sides 68:3 142:6

significance 175:21

190:1

significant 188:16

193:2 212:8 213:5

250:12 272:21

311:17

silicates 15:15

silicone 306:22

similar 155:10

198:3

Similarly 315:2

simple 83:6 197:17

272:11

simplistic 198:1,4

simply 195:12

197:14

sincerely 191:14

single 32:16 61:19

62:11 224:14

331:7

sit 235:3

sits 249:17

sitting 151:4 211:2

236:12 267:9

situation 196:12

situations 140:7

six 9:13 31:14,15

31:17,19 52:10

103:5

slate 249:12

slaughter 169:22

slaughterhouse

170:1,3

slaughtering 202:1

321:4

sleep 84:17

slide 75:7

slight 178:17 265:5

288:6

slightly 178:2,6,7,7

232:11

slow 289:5 291:2

small 257:15

Smillie 1:23 8:9

12:22 19:21 22:17

22:18 25:14,20

27:7,13,16,19

55:18,21 56:15

58:11 63:15,16

66:10,21 68:13,17

69:7,17,20 70:2,5

70:8 73:11,12

86:22 87:4,7,15

90:15,16 115:14

116:2 117:3

120:11,12 123:16

123:17 139:11,22

140:3,8,11 148:11

149:3,4 150:16,17

151:6 157:21,22

159:22 161:11

162:8,18 165:9

166:20 167:2

169:20 171:8

172:6 176:1

177:10,11 180:4

186:8 193:11

195:8,17 196:6

216:5,6 217:20

218:1 219:11,19

221:3,14 222:21

226:17 229:17

230:6 231:12,17

233:8,12,21 234:2

234:8,10 235:13

235:22 236:10,16

236:21 237:2,8,15

237:20 240:8,13

240:17,21 241:3,6

241:8 242:3,7,21

243:4,18 244:2,15

244:16 259:13

260:16 263:19

264:11,14,17,20

265:19 269:13,16

270:1 271:8,11,16

271:19 272:5,13

277:16 282:10

283:10,11 286:6

290:15 291:1,10

293:3,4 296:12,19

297:4,15 298:6

299:1,2 310:1,5

310:10,17 311:9

311:18 312:2

316:9 318:21

320:6,17,21

327:16 329:7

331:21 332:5

SMITH 2:20

snags 287:10

soapbox 195:18

soaps 14:20,20

soap-based 14:15

14:17

sodium 21:4 154:5

154:6 306:17

soil 15:11 161:18

soils 15:4

sold 4:15 142:13

218:4 219:2

sole 234:14

solely 136:2

solid 42:6 275:19

287:6

soluble 15:13

solution 71:17

230:14 234:13

240:18

solve 197:15

somebody 111:3

284:12

someone's 146:17

somewhat 94:20

254:19 260:19

328:15

soon 52:19 306:4

sorry 11:16 13:14

16:8 23:18 87:21

90:12 102:1

103:11 106:19

108:1 125:15

138:9 172:4 179:8

206:6 217:1 232:3

259:4 268:8 287:1

297:20 298:1

305:19

sort 42:14 43:2

68:11 144:16

227:12 257:10

320:7 323:7 324:5
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 364

325:1 326:18

328:18

sorts 191:3

sought 187:3

sound 5:7 238:8

246:9 300:10

sounds 231:6 312:8

317:1,3

source 248:13

sourcing 173:7

South 331:13

sow 131:8,10

spaces 184:22

span 261:8 288:7

spare 304:6

speak 212:16 240:8

speaking 313:3

330:7

special 6:14,18

specific 28:11

32:12 45:10 53:22

72:1 142:14

153:12 156:10

195:14 309:9

311:21 316:18

specifically 52:4

136:12 144:19

195:6

specifics 193:13

spend 35:4 51:18

271:3 325:19

spirit 327:16

split 28:3 70:3

265:2 276:11

278:11,22 279:6

splitting 238:9

spoke 72:19

spring 57:20 327:6

sprouts 69:13

spur 220:6 253:19

256:17

squeeze 323:2

stabilized 166:7

staff 2:10 326:22

329:12

stages 226:7 306:13

staggered 325:17

stand 68:14 77:20

282:5 303:10

standard 5:4 24:3

30:14 103:1

163:19

standards 1:5,10

3:11 32:12 33:2

65:2,19 67:11

71:3 75:14 85:8

85:10 86:2 142:3

304:9,12 308:18

316:13 331:20

standing 77:16

96:14

standpoint 187:11

stands 43:10

197:21

starch 166:15

167:13

start 8:8 19:1 99:20

153:10 228:14

246:22 279:9

302:16

started 9:8 179:18

195:8

starting 7:20 19:5

93:21 234:5

291:15

Starts 329:13

state 13:20 155:11

stated 32:6 52:4

160:18 161:5

167:1 221:21

252:19 281:16

statement 119:15

138:2 142:14

143:9,15 148:8

175:13 196:16

243:17 267:13

272:17

statements 110:14

196:8

States 1:1 194:8

static 44:11 49:22

status 58:22 137:16

325:9

statute 189:6 214:5

326:1

statutes 166:1

191:10

statutory 325:20

stay 218:19 253:13

262:18 300:19

314:12 328:10

staying 60:18

stays 108:11 220:1

stearate 159:3

steep 303:11

steered 330:12

step 13:15 86:10

98:13,17,22 99:3

103:8 147:15

201:11,19 222:18

223:3 247:22

248:2 249:9,22

252:21 253:5,10

254:22 260:13

267:16 277:6

278:14 279:10

287:20 290:10

291:20 292:1

301:4 315:13

316:16,17

stepping 264:18

277:2

Steve 1:18 13:3

18:13 20:2 22:21

58:5 63:20 73:16

90:20 117:6

120:16 123:21

149:8 152:9,12

154:14 156:19

163:3 164:3,7

171:9 175:11

177:14 180:22

216:10 218:11

220:6,16 221:8,12

228:18 230:9

234:16 237:9

241:12 245:2

259:16 276:14,20

278:2 283:15

286:5 290:14

291:6 293:8

294:20 296:6,7

299:5 306:10

329:6

Steven 167:20

Steve's 181:4 296:6

sticky 15:4

stock 142:10

143:12

stocking 305:11

stop 60:4

stopped 47:14

295:13

straight 101:21

256:16 257:5

286:8,20

strategy 24:19 25:9

straw 151:9 236:19

Street 329:16

stricken 30:6

strict 232:6,7,9

strictly 160:18

231:21

strike 29:2 56:11

strong 67:6 129:8

249:21 250:6

257:2

stronger 248:8

struck 262:4

structure 24:20

25:10 26:3 27:4,6

28:15 54:17 82:17

289:8

structured 126:13

struggling 93:20

218:7

strychnine 3:22

21:5 122:11,13

stuck 195:10

studiously 191:22

stuff 169:12 187:4

202:9 204:12

327:2,3

subject 32:14,22

131:1 165:22

195:3

subjected 190:16

submission 82:12

submit 270:13,17

submitted 5:15

82:13

subsequent 139:3

subset 32:16 33:8

134:14

substance 7:4

11:21 45:16,16

46:2 66:13 110:6

123:6 132:3,18

144:8 179:20

185:8,9,11

substances 3:7,21

14:5 18:8 20:20

43:18 62:3,6 96:6

96:7 118:1 122:8

145:4 153:17

158:10 319:5

substantive 24:10

83:1,12 288:13

subtext 42:9

successful 76:22

207:13

sucrose 15:5 119:3

sufficiency 303:18

sufficient 288:17

302:16 319:18

sufficiently 135:17

136:1

suffocating 15:3,9

sugar 307:10

suggest 100:6

103:19 113:22

143:20 151:2

325:19 326:8

suggested 78:12

130:3

suggesting 28:7,12

29:2,17 32:21

41:7 111:18

226:15 325:1

suggestion 147:2

285:11

suggestions 34:12

suitable 32:19

33:10 168:21

sulfate 305:6,6
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 365

sulfates 15:14

sulfites 206:21

sulfur 15:1,1,8,10

15:13

sulphur 206:13

207:22

summarize 66:17

185:12

summarized

181:13 185:16

summer 15:3,9

175:3 318:5

Sunset 3:2,5,6,21

4:4,6,8 9:15 11:6

11:8,20 14:3

20:19 24:2 30:15

30:21 32:2,15

33:1,5 41:14

50:19 51:11,12

56:4,8,21 57:5,8

94:4,6,10,13

99:16 100:19

102:5 117:22

153:7,15 154:11

154:16 159:21

162:6 163:6 164:2

248:9 249:10

252:8 254:6,14

256:16,22 257:4,5

260:14 262:20

276:16,17 278:14

286:9,10,19,19

292:2,9 303:22

305:2 307:14

314:13 324:20

326:8 327:5

Sunsets 58:4 302:6

sunsetting 166:4

super 241:15

Superman's 231:6

supplement 166:15

supply 169:2

support 93:21 97:6

131:16 248:11

supported 289:2

supports 130:7,9

130:13 148:21

supposed 276:4

sure 6:21 25:5 26:2

30:18 32:8 34:5

34:10 36:10,14

42:18 43:8,22

44:8 51:1,22

58:20 59:5,15

70:20 74:21 81:12

84:17 85:4 86:16

86:22 97:21 98:1

108:16 109:7

110:13,18 113:21

116:6 119:19

126:16 127:22

128:6,22 132:6

163:12 171:11

172:7 217:16

231:7 232:16

236:9 242:3

247:20 261:15

270:14 274:10

296:22 306:5

309:6 311:19

314:6,8 315:14

surgery 134:20

135:2 142:21

143:4 144:15

surprise 187:5

surprisingly 156:2

survey 150:20

susceptible 110:12

suspect 97:8

sweet 166:15

167:13

switch 83:18

278:14 310:7

synthetic 14:5

80:21 81:4,7

92:11 132:17

134:3 142:7 144:8

154:7 187:12,14

187:22 188:10

190:5,8,15 194:22

197:22 198:7,11

200:15,16,19,19

201:13 202:6,8,10

204:5,9,11,17,22

205:6,6,12,16

206:5,14,21 207:2

207:18 208:3,11

209:3,7 211:1

212:8,10 214:2,4

247:5 281:6

295:12 297:7

synthetics 28:4

132:17 140:22

141:1,2,6 158:13

188:8 190:12

200:4 201:17,19

207:18 208:1

system 14:14

169:15 172:12

297:6 305:13

324:3

systemic 94:20,21

systems 14:14

system's 169:19

S-E-S-S-I-O-N

246:1

T

table 3:17 19:2,3

104:20 114:15,18

114:21 115:5

116:7,9 117:16

125:11,13,16

231:22 246:10

314:17 315:3

tabled 247:13

314:20

tabling 115:15,17

tacked 247:21

tackle 38:16

take 6:17 28:12

37:20 45:13 46:7

53:19 54:3,11

69:14 76:4 82:2

83:13 98:18,18

113:22 130:18

178:6 183:16,17

189:13 197:19

198:8 204:10

206:12 209:4

220:9 232:18

236:10 242:5

262:6 272:17

278:6 288:21

290:17 303:3

304:7 307:20

308:2 314:17

316:17 317:4,19

324:9,12 327:17

330:2,6

taken 48:9 147:16

187:21 191:6

200:17 288:4,4

313:17

takes 26:21 30:20

54:12 189:15

284:8 304:15

331:8

talk 39:1 43:20

193:12,12 236:14

311:6 331:6

talked 32:18

168:18 224:8

303:11 331:9

talking 61:17 111:9

115:15,17 141:10

168:8 190:12

203:17 204:20

205:3 206:18,19

230:20 231:1,21

233:13 261:11

267:4,4 287:4

talks 51:19 264:4

Tall 302:15

tank 222:7 223:11

223:19,20 224:2

224:16 227:16

235:1,3 239:20

tanks 227:13

234:19

targeted 26:16

tartrate 159:7

task 3:15 24:20

25:9,15,18 26:3

26:10,13 27:4

28:14 29:14 32:11

33:7 34:20 37:4

41:11 43:19 44:15

51:4 52:22 54:12

57:16 59:4 79:10

86:7 249:5 250:9

260:17 262:8

289:8

taste 236:21

team 76:5

tech 306:14

technical 16:1

239:10,12,22

240:5

tell 62:14

telling 156:9

ten 7:12,15 260:4

284:8

term 111:12 201:5

219:15 228:17

232:8,10 319:19

319:22

terminology 31:2

232:6,7,9

terms 41:3 110:15

127:22 131:6

172:13 174:18

228:15 235:7

267:1 270:8 321:5

325:18,22

Terrestrial 3:11

65:3,19 71:3

terrible 38:4

terrific 330:8

test 273:6

testimonies 169:17

testing 190:9

318:13 319:1

tetramethyl 302:11

text 6:9 30:8

texture 237:1

thank 6:3,11 8:10

8:15,19,21 9:11

11:16 12:1,3

17:11 22:3 23:21

27:20 46:12 47:12

55:1 56:16 60:9

60:10,22 61:10

62:13,20 64:21

69:18,20 72:10
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 366

75:3,4,10,15,20

76:6 77:15,18

79:11 81:17 84:10

84:12 86:20 89:13

93:12,13 97:13,13

104:4 109:13

111:16 115:21

117:20 122:4

123:2 125:18

129:1,6 133:2,22

145:6 155:2,16,22

156:5,15 162:19

163:20 175:9

176:6 178:16

180:18 181:7

186:22 191:16,17

203:10 213:12

217:9 219:19

221:3 236:11

241:8,9,20,21

242:1 243:4,22

244:2 246:17

247:8 248:15,17

251:20 252:17

257:22 270:15

274:19 291:11

292:10 294:7,22

297:21,22 300:11

301:10 304:12,20

306:9 312:11

316:7 317:22

321:10 325:11

326:4 328:5,7

329:18 330:6,18

thanks 88:18

162:18 197:11

256:6 269:21

330:22

therapeutic 134:5

134:7,14

thickener 166:14

thin 266:21 290:4

thing 8:14 29:7

35:3 38:1 78:19

82:6,9 85:12

114:11 144:16

145:1 173:22

193:1 208:9

230:22 250:11

255:7 263:20,21

263:21 278:22

285:18 322:1

325:7

things 6:9 9:3 32:8

35:5,7 40:8 43:20

44:17 54:16 61:18

61:21 70:4 72:2

78:2 134:17

137:16 152:21

156:7 171:13

173:15 178:19

184:8 196:22

201:11 202:10

204:3 208:3,15,16

211:19 218:6,15

234:3,11 252:12

252:15 273:20

304:4 310:18

318:17 323:3

think 8:13,14 24:9

33:22 35:16,20

36:8 37:10 38:4

42:6,17 52:3

53:10 54:5,6,15

61:7 66:22 67:4

70:14 71:4,16

72:5,9 74:13

94:18 95:13,16

96:14 98:3 104:11

109:5,14 110:7

111:4,5 113:18

131:12,20 134:1

137:8,18 146:17

151:3 153:8 163:6

171:13,20 172:18

172:22 173:14

174:1,2,5 175:3,6

175:15 179:17

184:6 187:18

188:6,17,19

189:12 190:21

191:1,14,16 193:1

193:22 194:3

195:1,4 196:19,21

197:2,6,9 199:9

199:13 203:14

205:20 207:14,14

208:10,12,13,20

209:10,14 211:22

217:6 220:11,19

221:4 223:2,10,13

225:21 226:4

227:11,20 228:10

228:13 229:19

230:13 232:12,14

241:15 243:3

249:19,20 250:4,6

250:8,14,16,17,18

254:1 255:1,17

257:2,17 261:2

267:20 270:9,12

273:16 274:1

278:8 280:2 286:7

286:21 288:15

296:19 297:16

300:16 302:15

310:11 311:2,12

311:17 317:5,6

319:19 321:7,22

322:4 323:7,18

324:7,15 325:7

326:12,19 330:15

thinking 70:21

85:2 93:16 225:15

273:3 278:7,21

thinks 35:22

324:10

thirds 114:22

Thirteen 7:12

thorough 153:9

190:16 274:14

thoroughly 273:8

thou 53:7

thought 69:8 72:15

87:16 88:8 110:22

112:7 138:3

140:12 198:14

209:1 262:4

271:11 285:19

320:18

thread 166:16

three 25:3 27:16

58:2 67:14 69:13

70:1 84:17 103:17

152:16 153:1,6

162:13 163:17

235:4 249:3 254:5

284:11 320:18

thrilled 209:13

THURSDAY 1:7

tier 294:19 295:6

295:21

tiered 4:19 296:4

296:17 297:6

tight 275:14 279:6

289:15

tighten 68:4

Tilth 238:10

time 6:7 26:18,20

28:14,16,22 29:17

29:18 30:1 35:4

38:8,21 39:1,2,13

40:2,19 43:11

44:11 47:22 51:18

51:19 60:2,11

66:8 68:12 71:10

71:12 83:4,16

98:22 100:16,19

104:12 115:18

141:4,6 145:2,4

150:19 151:1

152:6 171:9 183:4

188:12 201:15

208:5 210:8,9

235:5 249:4

253:21 254:5

273:3 274:4

275:14,21 276:6

276:18 277:3

278:10 279:6

289:15 295:3

301:12,19 304:6

304:16 307:21

308:2 313:13

324:9,12 325:10

325:20 326:2

327:18

timeline 26:17

timeliness 315:22

timely 54:10 182:7

times 98:6 129:2

136:9,17 141:7

165:22 227:17

254:5 314:19

323:6 330:12

time-to-time 318:9

timing 37:5

Tina 1:17 9:10 10:8

12:17 19:16 22:12

37:11 51:8 56:18

61:1 63:10 66:16

72:11 73:7 88:4

90:8 93:3 107:3

116:20 119:12

120:6 124:21

130:15 150:5

152:2 157:16

165:4 177:5 199:8

199:18 211:15

215:22 244:10

256:12 259:8

263:2 280:12,13

283:5 289:20

292:20 298:18

301:22 323:22

329:20

tired 286:7

title 26:8 32:18

33:10

toast 197:19

toasted 197:22

tobacco 21:5

today 33:12 51:9

78:13 175:13

176:4 193:9 196:1

197:8 212:20

213:7 256:5 267:9

305:6

today's 5:9 7:3

tolazoline 118:20

told 96:21 169:3

186:21 211:3

212:6

Tom 326:9

tomorrow 329:9,13
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 367

ton 81:6 92:10,12

92:14,16,18,19

103:9,10,12,13

112:10 265:3,10

265:13,14,16

280:21 281:6,8,10

281:18 285:5,7,8

288:8

tons 92:13 265:11

281:9 303:4

tool 135:8 261:21

tools 135:10

top 8:1 170:11

171:11 234:21,21

234:22 322:2

topic 120:2 123:11

184:15,15 193:4

322:5

topical 119:1

topics 315:10 316:5

316:5,22

total 81:4

totally 31:11 33:11

71:12 146:12

170:10 175:11

191:9

touch 300:19

touches 322:5

Toxicity 56:6

toxicology 189:22

TR 17:3 302:12,16

302:19,22 303:12

303:19 313:13

trace 119:6

track 64:17 175:19

314:8,12 331:9

Tracy 1:17 12:19

19:18 22:14 63:12

73:9 90:10 105:21

116:22 120:8

123:13 150:7

154:14 157:18

160:12 165:6

177:7 216:2

227:19 229:15

230:12 244:12

256:7 259:10

268:3,22 283:7

292:22 298:20

Tracy's 186:15

trade 232:1

traditionally 192:2

transcript 217:7

224:21 317:17

transfer 69:5

253:10

transition 248:12

255:21

transitioning 96:1

135:9

transparent 171:16

174:12

transport 321:5

traps 15:4

treat 143:12 145:15

223:13 224:13

treated 144:19

treating 146:10

treatment 119:1

142:17

treatments 118:6

135:18

tremendous 191:13

196:13

tremendously

168:9

tribasic 158:15

trick 236:13

trigger 27:10

triumvirate 25:4

tropic 158:17

trouble 144:1

troubled 94:15

TRs 305:4 306:18

314:6 315:22

327:3,18,19,21

true 128:22 143:8

277:16

try 58:3 89:17

248:19 279:8

287:19 306:19

314:11 317:13

324:21 326:3

trying 66:14 97:17

101:21 110:21

146:7 194:12

202:22 203:4,12

208:6 230:21

238:11,15 258:5

324:4

turkey 92:13

103:10 281:9

285:7

turkeys 81:10

92:18 103:12

261:1 265:18

281:18 282:18

Turkish 166:16

turn 23:17 230:1

tweaking 182:1

Twelve 7:13 216:22

twice 295:11

twisted 111:2

two 4:19 31:4 74:11

78:22 79:2,7 80:1

88:9 91:19 99:15

101:18,19,20

102:8,10,17

114:21 135:19

140:4,16 141:7

162:1,11 180:5

181:3 182:11

193:11 194:13

195:9 196:21

198:8 202:17

210:4 216:20,22

222:12 235:3

249:3 250:16

251:19 263:1

264:21 265:5

276:11,17,21

277:6,12 278:11

286:9 294:19

295:6,21 296:4,17

297:5 306:6,21

315:10 316:11

317:4 326:10,13

twofold 262:18

two-thirds 7:5 83:2

83:3

tying 135:1

type 134:10

types 35:7 134:9

228:16 274:9

typically 96:19

typing 306:7

U

unanimous 14:9

18:17,19 58:16

80:13 295:17

unanimously 21:1

unannounced

318:13,14 320:19

unaware 179:15,17

201:1

unbelievable

331:10

unbleached 166:13

uncomfortable

311:13

undecided 225:18

underlined 185:18

underlying 188:14

understand 36:15

51:16 59:10 71:9

86:1 94:7 129:16

146:8 170:5,6

184:3 187:17

204:12 205:8

212:13,22 224:18

227:18 231:11

232:7 250:15

263:9 273:12

276:7 282:8 291:8

understanding

24:16 25:2 26:5

26:15,22 47:13

49:20 52:17 86:5

140:6 141:13

202:13 233:9

263:22 264:2

315:17 316:20

understands 36:11

151:20 233:6

247:20

understood 174:4

213:5

unfortunate 275:22

unfortunately

28:19 184:21

263:3

unfriendly 271:15

271:20

United 1:1 194:8

Unknown 56:6

unknowns 255:2

unlisted 132:17

unsure 115:12

update 181:16

updated 314:11

updates 181:17

upset 330:16

urge 97:2 150:18

usage 256:17

268:17

USDA 264:7

use 3:7 4:15 14:6,8

14:12,16,18,19,21

15:6,11 17:22

20:21 21:2 38:10

42:13 43:2 44:22

45:5,19 48:2 53:9

81:2 85:7 92:8

94:13 99:19

101:16 102:21

109:18,19,22

111:6,11,20 112:1

112:13 113:2,14

122:9 139:15

142:20 143:22

145:9 146:6 154:4

155:6,14 156:3

158:18,21 159:4,9

159:12,16,17

166:14 168:22

170:17 171:12

187:14 190:3

200:6 202:6 209:5

210:11 212:20

218:3,12,22 219:7

219:15 222:17

223:2 224:14

227:15 230:21

232:8,9,10 233:7
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 368

235:9 236:3 239:3

241:16 248:4,6

261:21 268:20

277:18,22 281:4

282:16 285:4

289:11,18 297:5

useful 238:8 313:18

user 96:16

uses 134:5,7 136:2

155:19 160:18,22

161:4 163:14,16

163:17 247:5

utilize 31:2 32:22

utmost 95:9

U205.2 185:19

U205.601 185:22

U205.603 185:22

U205.606 186:1

V

vaccines 118:8

vague 9:14

vaguely 252:2

Valerie 2:14 5:7

16:5 24:4 30:3

42:7 44:9 60:7

137:12 181:18

184:10,18 246:8

269:22 279:16

284:10 286:20

294:13 300:10

306:4 328:10

331:5,7

Valerie's 329:22

valid 110:5 243:3

291:3

Valley 170:8

valuable 193:3

valve 222:8

various 5:12

246:12 270:10

306:12 318:3

319:8 323:6

vegetables 159:9

vegetarian 257:9

263:20

vegetarians 257:11

venues 191:10

verb 202:15

verbiage 29:21

versus 53:7 188:16

209:8 239:11

241:1

veterinarian's

140:14

veterinary 142:4

viable 255:2

Vice 6:15,17 7:1

74:15

Vice-Chairperson

1:17 12:20 19:19

21:13 22:15 63:13

90:11 104:18

105:4 106:5,10

117:1 120:9

123:14 154:12

157:19 160:13

163:15,18 165:7

177:8 186:7 216:3

219:3 227:20

229:18,22 230:13

244:13 256:8

259:11 268:4,9

269:1,20 283:8

293:1 296:1

298:21

victimized 201:8

view 36:2 41:6 94:4

95:5 143:19

190:20 203:22

204:1 244:1

viewed 201:15

viewpoint 191:7

virtue 204:13

205:14

vitamin 15:17

vitamins 119:6

307:12 308:4

voice 78:2 115:12

116:6 151:5

voiced 291:16

volume 170:12

172:1

volume's 170:5

voluntary 180:3

volunteers 8:10

vote 3:4,5,8,10,12

3:15,17,18,19,19

3:21,22 4:2,5,6,8

4:10,13,17,19

5:17 6:20 7:3,5,8

7:12 9:13 10:21

10:21 11:8,20,20

13:16,19 14:10

18:21 19:2,4,5

20:16 22:1 30:22

31:2,3 33:19

37:17 51:9,15

52:20 56:4,7 57:8

58:14,15 61:14

63:1 66:5 69:14

73:2 78:19 79:16

79:17 80:16 82:17

82:20 83:2,3,9

84:8 86:13,17

87:2,2,14,19 88:2

88:12 89:3 105:11

105:19 106:6,9

108:10,11,17

114:8 115:12

116:3,6 121:15

123:12 126:5,8

130:4,6,9 133:4

137:14 146:21

147:8,9 148:14,17

148:20 150:12

151:1,6,7 152:15

153:4 154:21

156:16 158:9

178:5 179:13

180:8 192:15

196:4 215:7 226:1

226:13 230:16

242:6 244:22

250:21 251:2,6,11

251:14,15,16

255:6 258:2,7,9,9

258:10 259:2,5

272:20 276:20

282:20 284:7

287:2,3 288:3

290:8,9 292:12

295:11,13 297:6

298:13 300:17

voted 20:22 58:7,9

88:12 118:15

176:4 193:9 213:7

286:12

votes 6:17 7:4,6,11

7:13,13,14,15

13:9,12 14:8

18:15 20:11 23:11

57:7 64:12 74:10

74:21 78:22 79:3

83:22 88:9 91:17

117:14 121:22

125:2 153:6 158:2

165:13 177:17

182:11,12 245:10

251:19 284:5

293:22 299:21

voting 3:24 4:19

5:10 7:12,14,15

7:18,20 8:5 11:2,5

11:10,13,14 17:10

31:8 55:19 56:9

77:12,21 78:14

79:8,14 108:7

113:20 122:7

125:8,17,21 126:9

153:1,1 154:9

184:9 185:5

192:12,13,21,22

228:9 259:1 282:9

284:6,8 291:20

292:5 295:7,21

296:5,18 297:6

300:8

vu 252:1

W

W 1:22

waiting 44:1

wakame 166:17

wall 28:9

want 11:17 25:16

26:2,13 27:8 34:9

36:4,10,18 42:8

44:7 45:4,17

50:15 51:1 59:5

59:14 60:4 61:15

62:2,12 72:17

79:11 80:19 82:2

85:3 87:13 88:22

89:20 95:8 96:11

96:13 99:14 100:5

103:16 106:6

108:6,16 110:12

110:14,17,22

127:21 134:22

139:12 142:22

145:8,10 146:9

150:18,21 151:6,7

162:3 169:13

171:1 173:3 174:8

181:4,16 185:3

187:5,9 190:14,14

192:11,20 195:11

202:18 205:8

208:8 211:5,9

212:16 213:18

231:11 235:4

238:22 239:1

242:8,8 243:4

255:19,20 257:12

266:2 270:3

272:13 274:9

278:17 295:5

303:19 310:12

315:14,19 319:13

319:16 324:8,12

325:5 328:9 330:1

wanted 34:5,6

40:12 61:10 68:3

71:6 86:16 88:1,6

93:19 95:17

128:21 140:12

163:12 184:7,12

199:12 214:19

221:2 225:16

235:18 236:2

252:6 260:20

261:15 264:20

291:7

wanting 188:7,8
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 369

253:7 328:22

wants 26:7 40:21

46:1 99:12,20

105:21 187:18

190:19 314:9

wasn't 34:5 72:13

84:17 87:8 97:22

137:13 138:11

139:1 233:16

261:12

water 159:3 166:10

wave 181:10

wax 154:7

waxes 154:6

way 7:21 8:18

21:10 35:13 37:12

38:5 41:6 43:6

49:21 57:13 61:8

61:16 62:19 70:15

82:4 83:20 86:10

91:19 99:9 125:21

126:12 137:19

169:15,16,18

178:18 180:2

194:17 195:4

198:14 202:12

214:2,4 223:14

224:11,12 226:12

242:6 251:19

256:19 257:9

270:19 273:17

281:16 285:16

289:6 309:7 311:2

314:9 315:12

326:10 330:7

ways 162:1,5 173:2

263:7 301:9

wean 145:13

web 230:22

website 42:5

weed 14:16

week 76:22 206:11

276:3,4 313:5

321:15

weeks 261:9

weighing 5:15

welcome 75:14

76:5 322:17

welfare 126:3

131:15 320:15

321:3,6

Wendy 1:21 4:10

12:11 19:10 22:6

63:4 74:7 75:18

91:12 95:10

116:14 121:7

124:15 131:18

134:15 142:18

149:21 157:10

164:20 172:1,3

176:21 179:7,11

215:16 243:14

261:18 262:12

272:4,5,18 282:7

282:21 291:17

292:14 299:18

went 8:18 76:10

153:8 173:16

178:13 185:14

295:1

weren't 48:13

106:3

we'll 21:22 54:3,4

66:5 68:21 76:4

79:8,14,16,22

80:1 82:1 90:13

99:17 106:16

115:12 153:4

156:12 172:7

176:4 179:10

191:15 199:15

242:5 249:17

272:22 275:19

288:20 289:11,18

289:18 298:12

303:1 304:19

305:8,10 306:19

307:12 309:18

311:6 312:2 314:3

314:11,13,22

315:7,11 318:4

322:15 324:13

328:3 331:10

we're 5:7 6:21 11:1

11:5,10,13 14:4

26:16,21 28:17

29:2,17 30:17

31:17 32:3,3

33:16 37:13 38:13

38:14,21 41:7

42:6 44:15 46:16

51:5 52:8,9 55:18

56:9,11 61:18

67:8 76:13 78:10

82:18 83:17,18

85:8 94:15 95:22

105:9 108:7

110:20 111:9

113:20 115:14,16

118:12,22 125:14

125:15,20,20

141:9 142:19

145:21 146:5

147:19 151:21

152:7 169:8

174:21 178:5,6,22

180:15 187:11,13

187:16 188:6,7

189:21 190:3,12

191:1,2 192:21

197:6 201:7 203:3

203:17 204:19,22

205:1,3 206:18,19

211:2,11 212:6

217:14,16,17,20

218:17 228:7

230:22 234:5,10

238:11,15 244:3

245:13 246:5,6,18

247:14 249:20

251:18 266:10

273:14 274:8,11

277:2,4 282:9

287:3,4 289:15

290:2,3,6 291:20

300:21 308:5

313:2 316:14,17

317:4 318:2,6

319:7 320:9

324:22 330:4,5,21

we've 25:16 40:20

40:21 54:15 57:6

59:4 75:6 78:2

82:4,9 128:1

161:13 173:15

176:4 182:8 188:1

190:21 192:8

193:7 195:15,19

195:20 202:9

205:9,15 207:18

207:19 209:2

210:3,21 211:4

213:21 219:17

232:10 249:2

266:4,13 301:21

302:18 303:11

315:6 322:9,12

324:20 327:22

330:3,4

whatsoever 218:18

242:18

wheat 197:19,21

whichever 32:21

241:12

whip 154:7

willing 280:5

wine 206:15,20

207:21,21 208:17

208:20 209:11

236:19 237:1

wines 208:14

wisdom 254:22

wise 310:20

withdraw 125:13

125:15 280:3,6,10

withdrawal 119:16

withdrawing

125:16,20,20

280:8

withdrawn 3:24

126:8

withholding 136:9

136:17 141:4,6,8

145:1,2,4

wi-fi 9:5

Wolf 77:3

wonderful 8:13,20

9:2 173:17 330:19

wondering 161:21

168:13 199:5

wondrous 227:14

wood 154:7

Woodland 1:12

word 26:10 29:9

54:8 104:12 109:7

174:9 238:12

252:22

wording 27:8

100:11,13 108:22

109:2 113:20

114:2,4 135:17

136:1 139:14

228:20

words 28:21 53:9

61:17 104:8

107:18 108:8

112:22 265:4

wordsmithing

242:10,14

work 5:20 25:3

36:5 41:2 54:2,7

54:13 57:15 61:4

68:9 77:19 79:12

83:21 93:15 95:20

96:11 97:14

126:18 155:6,13

155:18 156:3

177:21 178:3

179:2 183:20

187:1 193:8

196:13 202:17

210:10 211:12

217:3,10 249:12

250:5,6 261:17

263:6 287:19

294:11 298:3

300:3,5 301:12,15

301:17 302:2,3,4

302:6 306:4,13

307:12 312:17

313:7,8,16 314:3

315:11,19 316:1,4

316:9 317:14,20

318:12,19 321:12

322:11,16 324:18
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 370

325:6,10 326:11

328:3,20 330:2,19

331:6

worked 5:13 26:22

172:5 192:1 307:2

working 6:16 7:21

25:18,20 26:9,12

26:19 27:11 28:2

38:14 62:17 114:6

169:14 172:13

174:2 179:19

182:8 294:14

308:1,5 313:20

314:3 315:8,15,17

318:3,18 322:8

326:1

workplan 65:1

304:22

Workplans 4:21

works 85:19 183:8

209:12 257:2

world 62:16 203:18

273:22 302:7

worlds 256:15

257:19

worldwide 175:6

worth 326:2

wouldn't 35:4 45:6

111:19 204:4

237:15 240:20

242:1

wrap 209:21

322:20

write 54:11 193:4

273:18 274:17

writer 137:22

writing 98:12

110:13 138:5

267:15 309:18

written 49:21 55:3

127:6 163:7

263:13

wrong 32:8 174:9

324:6

wrote 22:2 130:20

138:6

WSTA 319:6

Wyard 238:2,2,7

240:11,15,19

241:1,4,7

X

xanthan 159:15

xenon 231:5

xylazine 118:21

Y

year 29:9,12

171:12 276:17

325:16,22 327:2

years 26:20 38:1

72:20 98:21 99:16

100:13,22 101:18

101:18,18,19

102:8,18 103:17

179:19 202:18

210:4,7 249:12

276:17,21 277:6

277:12 286:10

315:7 316:11

yeast 307:1,2

308:13,18 309:1

309:12 312:9

yellow 28:8,9

yesterday 9:17

24:1,7,11 26:11

29:4 31:21,22

33:13 39:5 41:13

52:18 54:9 61:17

65:9,11,13 67:4

77:5 78:9,13 79:7

85:9 118:11,12

127:2 131:6

150:22 152:20,22

153:10 160:14

168:18,20 169:6

181:13,21 185:16

195:22 197:18

214:15 216:19

218:19 219:17

220:16 221:9

230:19 233:9

267:4 294:21

295:1,10,19

young 143:11

145:13 197:10

253:10,16

younger 272:7

yous 196:14

Z

zero 13:12 20:12

23:12 122:1 125:3

158:3 177:18

180:9 299:22

zeroing 134:13

zinc 15:15

0

0 3:4,5,8,21,22 4:5

4:6,8,19

1

1 3:4,8,10,10,12,15

3:18,19,19,21,22

4:2,2,5,6,8,8,13

4:17,17,19 28:1,1

29:9 52:1 81:3

91:20 92:9,15

101:17 102:22

103:8,14 104:8

107:18 109:9,11

109:20 110:1,5

112:12 113:1,14

247:4 260:4

265:12 279:2

281:5 282:16

287:6,18

1st 88:15 265:9

284:22

1:40 245:14

1:45 245:14

1:57 245:18 246:2

10 3:18,19,19 284:7

294:1

10:45 152:6

100 130:7 136:22

223:16,21 224:4

235:14,17 236:5

237:9 238:15,19

317:12

100% 4:15 218:4

219:2,7

1000 81:7

11 313:4 329:4

11:00 32:7 76:20

11:10 178:13

11:25 178:8,14

118 3:18,21

12 3:12,15 4:13

74:11 91:20

287:18 307:18

12:15 217:14

12:30 178:11

12:40 245:13

12:44 245:16

120 3:21

1220 329:16

123 3:22

124 3:22

126 3:24

127 4:2

13 3:4,10 4:2,8,17

64:16 150:14

180:9 216:20

245:11

14 3:4,5,5,8,21,22

4:5,6,19 13:12

20:12 23:12 122:1

125:3 158:3

177:18 284:6,7,7

299:22

149 4:2

15 83:10 102:2

153 4:4

157 4:5

159 4:6

1600 62:10

164 4:6

166 4:8

17 102:2,4

170.3025 239:9

240:4

173.025 239:6

173.24 239:11

177 4:9

178 4:10

18 29:13

180 28:12,21 29:3

33:9

189 4:12

19 307:19

1962 1:12

2

2 3:12,15 4:13 28:5

28:6 30:1 39:5,17

91:20 92:17 94:3

103:10,12 108:8

184:21 265:11,14

285:6

2.5 265:3,15 267:21

2:00 180:12

20 3:5 103:14

2000 67:16 307:15

2004 38:21 39:3,9

42:12 47:14 48:3

2009 4:12

2010 1:8 88:15,15

101:10 102:14,15

109:20 277:18

287:6

2011 3:2 9:15

287:18

2012 3:5,6 14:2

20:19 92:9,15

100:16 101:11

102:18,22 103:8

265:9,13 277:1

279:2,15 281:5

282:16 284:22

287:18 301:3

302:6 314:13

327:5

2014 101:21

2015 81:3 104:8

107:19 108:8

109:9,11 110:2,5

112:12 113:2,14

247:4

2017 101:17

205 166:9

205(2) 201:20

209:6

205-601 3:5

205-604 3:22 122:7

205.238(c)(1) 4:2
202-234-4433

Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

Page 371

126:22

205.601 3:6 10:4

14:3,5 17:21

20:20 32:14 35:15

205.601(a) 153:10

205.603 3:21 80:22

118:1 142:9,10

144:9

205.603(a) 118:5

205.603(b) 118:22

205.603(d) 119:5

205.603(d)(1) 92:6

281:1 285:1

205.603(f) 119:7

205.605 307:4

205.605(a) 4:4

153:16

205.605(b) 4:6

158:8

205.606 4:8,10

166:9,19 307:4

21 3:8 239:11

215 4:13

218 4:16

23 3:8

238 142:3

238(c)(1) 127:13

148:17

24 3:9

243 4:17

25th 176:3

259 3:18

26 307:19

27 261:8

283 3:19

29 1:8

293 3:19

295 4:19

299 4:19

3

3 3:9 24:2 29:6,7

30:14 38:9 51:10

56:6 57:12 58:22

63:3 92:19 103:13

112:10 210:7

285:8

3:25 332:8

302 4:21

321 4:22

332 4:23

4

4 3:9,18,19,19

23:15 24:2 29:16

30:13 38:9 56:5

58:22 63:3 81:9

92:12 260:4 281:8

282:17 294:1

4:00 329:14

40 33:8

43 307:145 5 3:18 30:10 33:16

33:17 50:22 52:1

60:16 81:10 92:13

281:9 282:17

5008 42:56 6 4:12 29:18 30:9

31:10 52:1 60:14

81:11 92:14

280:20 281:10,18

282:18

6:30 76:20

601 10:11 18:8

21:17 59:13 202:6

603 119:13 120:4

202:7

604 123:6

605 156:4 166:9

184:17 200:6

306:16 307:18

309:2

605(a) 152:15

153:3 154:8,15

155:4,15,20

605(b) 152:16

153:5 155:4,20

160:5 164:1 198:5

204:10 205:5

307:19

605/606 202:7

606 152:16 153:5

155:5,15,21 156:4

165:18 167:1

171:14,17 172:16

172:20 173:12

174:10 179:13

180:9 307:1,19

309:3

606(b) 155:15

64 3:10

65 3:12

6517(c)(1)(b)(i)

96:4

7

7 83:9 92:5 281:1

285:1

70 240:13

70/30 206:22

73 3:12

75 3:13

79 3:15

8

8 83:9

8:00 1:11

8:07 5:2

800 62:9

834.1520 239:4 9 9 3:3,18

9:00 329:13,17

9:14 76:9

9:15 76:7

9:30 76:8

9:35 76:11

90 3:15 142:11

92 3:17

95 198:4

95/6 206:22