O ffice o fInfrast ructure Protection National Protecti on and Programs Directorate U.S. Department of Homeland Securit y Washington, DC 20528



### CHEMICAL FACILITY ANTI-TERRORISM STANDARDS

ADVANCE NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING WEST COAST WEBINAR LISTENING SESSION HELD ON SEPTEMBER 12, 2014

CONTENTS: Agenda Transcript

## Chemical Facility Anti**- Terrorism Standards**  **Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (CFATS ANPRM)**  **September 12** **, 2014**  **Public Listening Session**  **Webinar** Hosted by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) **Agenda** (All Times PDT) 10:00 a .m. – 10: 15 a .m. Welcome and Overview Kate Finnerty , Facilitator Amy Graydon, Department of Homeland Security, Office of Infrastructure Protection

10:15 a .m. – 10:20 a .m. Ground Rules for Public Listening Session Kate Finnerty , Facilitator 10:20 a.m. – 11:20 a .m. Commencement of Public Listening Session

11:20 a .m. – 11:50 a .m. Open Session (if time allows)

11:50 a.m. – 12 :00 p.m. Closing Remarks and Adjournment

Persons may also submit written comments to U.S. Department of Homeland Security, National Protection and Programs Directorate, Office of Infrastructure Protection, Infrastructure Security Compliance Division, 245 Murray Lane, Mail Stop 0610, Arlington, VA 20528

-0610 or through the Federal eRulemaking Portal at http://www.regulations.gov

. For more information on the CFATS ANPRM, please visit https://www.dhs.gov/CFATS

-Rulemaking

.

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### CHEMICAL FACILITY ANTI-TERRORISM STANDARDS ADVANCE NOTICE OF PROPOSED RULEMAKING WEBINAR LISTENING SESSION

Conducted by Kate Finnerty and Amy Graydon Friday, September 12, 2014 Commencing at 1:01 p.m. EDT

4601 N. Fairfax Drive, Suite 900 Arlington, Virginia 22203

Reported by: LaQuicia Thomas Bay Area Court Reporting, Inc.

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 2 

### MS. FINNERTY: Good morning and welcome to 3 

### the listening session for the Chemical Facility 4 

### Anti-Terrorism Standards Advance Notice of Proposed 5 

### Rulemaking, or CFATS ANPRM, that was issued by the 6 

### U.S. Department of Homeland Security on August 18th, 7 

### 2014. We are glad that you are able to join us today 8 

### on the webinar. 9 

### This is the third listening session in a 10 

### series that will be held across the country, 11 

### including two via webinar and six in person. 12 

### My name is Kate Finnerty with Energetics 13 

### Incorporated. DHS, who is leading the proposed 14 

### rulemaking, has arranged for me to moderate today's 15 

### listening session. 16 

### Before we get started, I would like to make 17 

### a couple of announcements. First, I would like to 18 

### respectfully request that all participants exercise 19 

### standard webinar and phone etiquette, including 20 

### placing your phone on mute, refraining from using the 21 

### hold function and being mindful of any background 22 

### noise when you are selected to speak. 23 

### After the opening remarks and prior to 24 

### opening the public listening session, we will review 25 

### the functions of the webinar screen that you are

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### currently seeing. Of note is the ability for you to 2 

### indicate if you would like to provide public comment 3 

### during the webinar. When it is your turn to speak, I 4 

### will ask the operator to open your line. 5 

### The comments provided during this session 6 

### are being transcribed for note-taking purposes. A 7 

### transcript of each listening session will be posted 8 

### on a docket in the Federal Register at a later date. 9 

### Audio of this session will not be retained. 10 

### The purpose of today's session is to gather 11 

### public comments, data or views on how the current 12 

### CFATS regulation, also known as 6 CFR, Part 27, 13 

### issued in 2007, might be modified. Issuing the 14 

### Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking enables the 15 

### Department to provide stakeholders with an 16 

### opportunity to provide comments and suggestions for 17 

### identifying ways to make the program more effective 18 

### in achieving its regulatory objectives. 19 

### For our agenda this morning, we are going 20 

### to begin with welcoming remarks, which will include a 21 

### brief overview of the status of the CFATS program. 22 

### The remainder of the session will be dedicated to 23 

### hearing from you, the stakeholders. During closing 24 

### remarks, we will include instructions on how to 25 

### obtain additional information about the listening

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### sessions. 2 

### At this time, I would like to introduce 3 

### Ms. Amy Graydon, Branch Chief with the DHS 4 

### Infrastructure Security Compliance Division, to 5 

### provide welcome remarks. 6 

### Ms. Graydon. 7 

### MS. GRAYDON: Thank you, Kate. 8 

### I would like to thank all the participants 9 

### for joining us today, this afternoon on the East 10 

### Coast and in the morning on the West Coast, as we're 11 

### going to embark on this important effort to look at 12 

### the -- as we think about the next generation of the 13 

### Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards program. 14 

### The Homeland faces a persistent and 15 

### evolving threat from terrorist groups and cells. 16 

### Chemical facilities potentially are attractive 17 

### targets as a successful attack on some chemical 18 

### facilities could potentially cause a significant 19 

### number of deaths and injuries. Certain chemical 20 

### facilities possess materials that could be stolen or 21 

### diverted and used as/or converted into weapons for 22 

### use off site. 23 

### In Section 550 of the DHS Appropriations 24 

### Act of 2007, Congress authorized the Department to 25 

### regulate security at high-risk chemical facilities.

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### Under Section 550, covered facilities must perform 2 

### Security Vulnerability Assessments or SVAs. Covered 3 

### facilities must perform -- excuse me, Security 4 

### Vulnerability Assessments, SVAs, and implement Site 5 

### Security Plans, SSPs, containing security measures 6 

### that meet the DHS defined Risk-Based Performance 7 

### Standards. The Department developed the Chemical 8 

### Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards, or CFATS, to 9 

### implement this authority. 10 

### To determine if a facility is subject to 11 

### CFATS, DHS looks at the unique circumstances faced by 12 

### the facility starting with the quantities of 13 

### chemicals of interest, COI as we call them, the 14 

### facility possesses. Potential regulation is not 15 

### based on the facility type, meaning that many 16 

### different types of facilities may be subject to 17 

### CFATS, including chemical manufacturers, warehouse 18 

### and distributors, chemical repackaging operations, 19 

### oil and gas operations, hospitals, semiconductor 20 

### manufacturers, paint manufacturers, colleges and 21 

### universities and mining facilities. 22 

### Congress did exempt several types of 23 

### facilities from regulation. Facilities regulated 24 

### under the Maritime Transportation Security Act, 25 

### facilities subject to regulation by the Nuclear

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### Regulatory Commission, facilities owned and operated 2 

### by the Departments of Defense or Energy as well as 3 

### public water systems and water treatment works 4 

### regulated under certain federal water quality laws 5 

### administered by the U.S. Environmental Protection 6 

### Agency. 7 

### Since the program's inception, more than 8 

### 3,000 facilities have voluntarily removed or reduced 9 

### the onsite quantities of COI or modified processes to 10 

### the point where they are no longer considered high 11 

### risk. These actions have helped reduce the number of 12 

### high-risk chemical facilities throughout the Nation 13 

### and have correspondingly made the Nation more secure. 14 

### As of September 8th, 2014, CFATS covers 15 

### 3,869 facilities. Of those, 3,148 are final-tiered 16 

### facilities and 721 are preliminarily-tiered 17 

### facilities across all 50 states. 18 

### DHS has received and is in the process of 19 

### reviewing an estimated 4,600 SSPs and Alternative 20 

### Security Programs. Of these, 2,082 SSPs have been 21 

### authorized and 1,073 have been approved. The first 22 

### authorization inspection was conducted during the 23 

### summer of 2010. And as of September 8th, 2014, we 24 

### have conducted over 1,471 AIs. 25 

### The Infrastructure Security Compliance

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### Division is working to continuously strengthen the 2 

### program and improve implementation of CFATS. 3 

### Although work remains to be done, in the past two 4 

### years, significant progress has been made. This 5 

### includes improving the SSP review process and 6 

### increasing the pace of the Site Security Plan reviews 7 

### and approvals, engagement with industry on the 8 

### development of their ASP templates, working with 9 

### experts to evaluate and validate or recommend ways to 10 

### improve the CFATS risk--tiering methodology and 11 

### introducing game-changing initiatives such as one-day 12 

### inspections with smaller inspection teams, our 13 

### corporate approach for companies with multiple 14 

### facilities and increased pre-inspection coordination 15 

### and outreach. 16 

### Alternative Security Programs are one path 17 

### to compliance. ISCD is also exploring with industry 18 

### the possibility of creating segment-specific ASPs 19 

### that include options for best practices that may 20 

### apply to certain types of facilities. We have met 21 

### with various industry associations such as the 22 

### National Association of Chemical Distributors on this 23 

### topic and continue to look for new opportunities for 24 

### engagement. 25 

### The work industry has done with the

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### Department to develop ASP templates is a prime 2 

### example of how agency implementing a regulatory 3 

### program like CFATS can work with industry to develop 4 

### the tools that answer the regulatory needs while also 5 

### accounting industry realities and how industry 6 

### associations can support the DHS mission. 7 

### The Department supports a permanent 8 

### authorization for the CFATS program and is committed 9 

### to working with Congress and other security partners 10 

### to establish permanent authority for the CFATS 11 

### program. DHS firmly believes permanent authorization 12 

### will provide industry with the necessary stability to 13 

### move forward in effectively implementing CFATS and 14 

### will send a clear message to facilities that may be 15 

### seeking to avoid their obligation to report dangerous 16 

### chemicals. And we want to emphasize that the CFATS 17 

### program is here to stay. 18 

### H.R. 4007, the CFATS Authorization and 19 

### Accountability Act of 2014, was passed in the U.S. 20 

### House of Representatives on July 8th, 2014. The bill 21 

### would permanently authorize the CFATS program and 22 

### authorize appropriation for three fiscals years. The 23 

### Senate committee on Homeland Security and 24 

### governmental affairs passed the Senate version of the 25 

### bill on July 30th, 2014. We are grateful that

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### Congress has recognized the progress of the program. 2 

### In August 2013, President Obama issued 3 

### Executive Order 13650 Improving Chemical Facility 4 

### Safety and Security to improve the safety and 5 

### security of chemical facilities and reduce the risk 6 

### to workers, communities and first responders. 7 

### The tri-chairs of the Chemical Facility 8 

### Safety and Security Working Group, who are the 9 

### Department of Homeland Security, the Department of 10 

### Labor and EPA established by the Executive Order, 11 

### submitted a status report to the President titled 12 

### "Actions to Improve Chemical Facility Safety and 13 

### Security, a Shared Commitment," and that was released 14 

### on June 6th, 2014. 15 

### Recognizing that information, actions and 16 

### experiences of stakeholders are essential to 17 

### understanding, managing and mitigating the risk of 18 

### potential facility hazards, the working group 19 

### initiated a robust stakeholder outreach effort to 20 

### assist in identifying successes and best practices. 21 

### We were able to engage across all levels of 22 

### government with owners, operators, industry 23 

### associations, labor organizations, and communities 24 

### affected by chemical plant disasters. 25 

### The status report highlights activities

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### already undertaken to improve chemical facility 2 

### safety and security and provides a plan for moving 3 

### forward to continue the initial progress made across 4 

### the five thematic areas. The action plan includes -- 5 

### the report includes an action plan to further 6 

### minimize the risk and continue to change the national 7 

### landscape of the chemical facility safety and 8 

### security. It lays out 25 priority actions in five 9 

### thematic areas, including strengthening community 10 

### planning and preparedness, enhancing federal 11 

### operational coordination, improving data management, 12 

### modernizing policies and regulations and 13 

### incorporating stakeholder feedback and developing 14 

### best practices. The status report is a mile-stone, 15 

### not an end point. The most important lesson learned 16 

### from this effort is that every stakeholder group in 17 

### the chemical facility community has a role in 18 

### ensuring safe and secure operations. 19 

### DHS and our partners are making progress on 20 

### the action items. One of those items included 21 

### issuing the Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking for 22 

### the CFATS program. As we work to mature the CFATS 23 

### regulatory program, DHS is initiating this rulemaking 24 

### process to help identify how to make the CFATS 25 

### program more effective in achieving its regulatory

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### objectives. DHS believes that after seven years of 2 

### experience implementing the CFATS program, both the 3 

### Department and the regulated community have gained 4 

### firsthand insight into how non-prescriptive security 5 

### regulation can be most effective. This ANPRM 6 

### provides an opportunity for the department to hear 7 

### and consider the views of regulated industry and 8 

### other interested members of the public on their 9 

### recommendations for a program modification. 10 

### We invite interested persons to submit 11 

### written comments, data or views on how the CFATS 12 

### regulation is currently organized or might be 13 

### improved. The public is encouraged to comment on all 14 

### aspects of the program. The rulemaking covers all 15 

### regulatory and guidance documents, including Appendix 16 

### A and the list of the COI covered by the program. 17 

### We've highlighted several topics on which 18 

### public comment would be particularly helpful, 19 

### including the general regulatory approach, treatment 20 

### of nontraditional chemical facilities, clarification 21 

### of termination, Risk-Based Performance Standards, 22 

### Appendix A, consideration for small businesses, and 23 

### alignment with other regulatory programs. Written 24 

### comments may be submitted online through the Federal 25 

### eRulemaking Portal or via mail, and we'll have those

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### addresses up on the screen a little bit later on one 2 

### of the slides. 3 

### Input from stakeholders has been critical 4 

### to the past CFATS efforts and is just as important as 5 

### we move into the next chapter of the program. I 6 

### thank you for taking the time to participate with us 7 

### today, and we look forward to hearing your comments 8 

### and suggestions on how DHS can mature the CFATS 9 

### program. 10 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, Ms. Graydon. The 11 

### remainder of this session today is set aside to hear 12 

### from you, the stakeholders. 13 

### First, I'd like to outline the format and 14 

### ground rules for today's session. This is a 15 

### listening session with the purpose to hear a diverse 16 

### set of opinions from across the broad spectrum of 17 

### stakeholders who have an interest in improving and 18 

### streamlining the CFATS rule. As such, we are not 19 

### seeking consensus today on any of the topics. 20 

### All presenters are asked to keep their 21 

### comments directly related to the topics described in 22 

### Part 4 of the ANPRM and listed just a few minutes ago 23 

### by Ms. Graydon. 24 

### I will also note that specific suggestions 25 

### and supporting data are the most helpful comments.

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### All presenters are also asked to keep their comments 2 

### limited to five minutes, including any introduction 3 

### to your remarks. The panel may then ask clarifying 4 

### questions after your presentation. 5 

### We hope to have time to hear from everyone 6 

### who would like to speak today, but if we cannot get 7 

### to everyone, you are encouraged to provide comments 8 

### via one of two mechanisms that Ms. Graydon 9 

### introduced. They are listed in the Federal Register 10 

### notice, and very quickly they are the Federal 11 

### eRulemaking Portal at www.regulations.gov and a 12 

### physical mailing address at 245 Murray Lane, Mail 13 

### Stop 610, Arlington, Virginia 20528. 14 

### Also any materials related to your 15 

### presentations today that you would like to formally 16 

### submit should be submitted via these options. The 17 

### deadline to submit comments is October 17, 2014, 18 

### which is 60 calendar days after publication of the 19 

### ANPRM in the Federal Register. 20 

### The remainder of our webinar will include 21 

### two parts, time permitting. In the first part, I 22 

### will call upon each person who signed up to present. 23 

### I will ask the operator to open your line when it is 24 

### your turn to speak for your allocated five minutes. 25 

### If time allows, I will then open the floor to anyone

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### else who would like to speak on the topics also with 2 

### a five-minute maximum. 3 

### At this time, I would like to introduce one 4 

### of our webinar team members, Victoria Frena, to 5 

### briefly introduce the functions of the webinar screen 6 

### you are currently seeing. 7 

### Ms. Frena. 8 

### MS. FRENA: Good afternoon and good 9 

### morning. The CFATS ANPRM is posted in the file 10 

### sharing box in the lower left-hand corner of your 11 

### screen should you wish to download a copy. Click on 12 

### the PDF and then press save to my computer. The 13 

### document will then be saved to your computer. If you 14 

### need technical assistance throughout the 15 

### presentations, please e-mail GIA@HQ.DHS.gov. 16 

### When presenting, there will be a timer 17 

### timing your presentation on the left-hand side of 18 

### your screen. We will also pull up and maximize a 19 

### presentation warning box which will let you know when 20 

### you have one minute remaining and when your time is 21 

### finished. 22 

### If time permits and you would like to speak 23 

### during the open-mic session, please start a chat with 24 

### the host with your name -- your first and last name 25 

### so that we may add you to the list. You can start a

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### chat with the host by hovering over the right-hand 2 

### corner of the chat pod and clicking the drop-down. 3 

### You can then scroll down to chat with, and it will 4 

### shoot out on the side and you will be able to click 5 

### chat with host. Thank you. 6 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, Ms. Frena. I 7 

### will now open the public listening session, and I 8 

### will first proceed with those who signed up in 9 

### advance to present. 10 

### Would Jan Levenhagen please press *1 to 11 

### signal the operator to open your line. 12 

### THE OPERATOR: Jan, your line is open. 13 

### MS. LEVENHAGEN: I will pass on my comments 14 

### at this time. 15 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, ma'am. 16 

### Operator, you can close that line. 17 

### Would J'on Rider please press *1 to 18 

### indicate the operator to open your line. 19 

### THE OPERATOR: This is the operator. I am 20 

### not receiving a *1 signal from J'on. 21 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, ma'am. 22 

### We are at the end of the list of speakers 23 

### who indicated in advance that they would like to 24 

### present. I will now open the floor for additional 25 

### comments related to the CFATS Advance Notice of

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### Proposed Rulemaking. If you are interested in making 2 

### a public comment, please dial *1 now to queue up 3 

### with the operator. Again, we are going to ask that 4 

### comments be limited to five minutes. Please hold 5 

### while we collect the names of speakers. Thank you 6 

### for your patience. 7 

### (Pause.) 8 

### THE OPERATOR: We do have a comment from 9 

### somebody who did not report their name. 10 

### Please announce yourself. 11 

### MS. FINNERTY: The floor is open to the 12 

### speaker that is -- that indicated interest in 13 

### speaking. You have five minutes. 14 

### THE OPERATOR: Perhaps your line is muted. 15 

### Please check the mute function. 16 

### MR. FERGUSON: This is Todd Ferguson. Can 17 

### you hear me? 18 

### MS. FINNERTY: Yes, sir. Please proceed. 19 

### MR. FERGUSON: My question is, will the 20 

### chemical of interest list be revised? 21 

### MS. GRAYDON: So this is Amy Graydon. As 22 

### we listed in the Advance Notice of Proposed 23 

### Rulemaking, we are interested in everybody's 24 

### suggestions on if there are chemicals to be added or 25 

### subtracted from Appendix A.

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### MR. FERGUSON: Thank you. 2 

### MS. FINNERTY: Sir, do you have public 3 

### comment to make at this time? 4 

### MR. FERGUSON: No. Thank you. 5 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, sir. 6 

### Operator, you can close that line. 7 

### As a reminder, this is a public listening 8 

### session, and the line is available to those that are 9 

### wishing to present public comment for five minutes. 10 

### You may indicate interest in providing a public 11 

### comment either by starting a chat with the host on 12 

### your screen or by selecting *1 on your phone to 13 

### queue up with the operator. Thank you. 14 

### (Pause.) 15 

### THE OPERATOR: We do have a comment from 16 

### James Bohon. 17 

### Your line is open. 18 

### MS. FINNERTY: Please proceed. 19 

### MR. BOHON: Thank you. This is James 20 

### Bohon. I'm with California Environmental Protection 21 

### Agency. 22 

### In looking through the CFATS Rule, Section 23 

### G of -- I'm sorry, I guess it's subsection G of -- 24 

### pardon me. It has to do with alignment with other 25 

### regulatory programs. There are a number of other

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### regulatory programs that collect information having 2 

### to do with chemical facilities that also -- that 3 

### information is also collected by the CFATS program. 4 

### Under the Federal laws, the CFATS program 5 

### collects information on chemical facilities and the 6 

### chemical inventories, chemical names and some 7 

### characteristics. Under the SARA Title III laws, this 8 

### information is also collected, and it's collected for 9 

### somewhat of a different reason. The SARA Title III 10 

### laws are collected -- allow collection of chemical 11 

### information specifically for the purpose of 12 

### disclosure to the general public while CFATS actually 13 

### collects the information and considers a significant 14 

### amount of it protected. There is overlap between 15 

### those two programs. 16 

### Within California, we have a program that 17 

### was enacted prior to the EPCRA program that also 18 

### collects information that is aligned with the EPCRA 19 

### program and some other additional information. 20 

### We have some concerns that there's 21 

### confusion with industry on the information that's 22 

### being reported. We see it an opportunity for CFATS 23 

### to better define what information is actually 24 

### collected by the program and that has need for 25 

### protection. As an example, CFATS protects the name

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### of the company and also protects the name of the 2 

### chemical just as some minor examples. While under 3 

### the Tier II program under EPCRA, that particular 4 

### information is releasable both under the Freedom of 5 

### Information Act and under California Public Records 6 

### Act (PRA), and both ofthem provide release of that 7 

### information to the public. 8 

### So there are issues in dealing with this. 9 

### In California we are trying to meet with the industry 10 

### and also with local government and state government 11 

### to determine, moving forward, what information can be 12 

### released and what information should be protected. 13 

### So, again, I think there's an opportunity 14 

### in the rule to better define what information is 15 

### actually being protected. Thank you. 16 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, sir. 17 

### Ms. Graydon, do you have follow-up 18 

### questions? 19 

### MS. GRAYDON: Yeah. So thank you for your 20 

### comments. I think we would be interested if you 21 

### wanted to go ahead and submit something in writing if 22 

### you had the kind of specific data fields that you had 23 

### in mind that -- you were mentioning a couple. The 24 

### more specific the data fields you can provide us, the 25 

### better we can consider what you're saying.

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### MR. BOHON: I'll be happy to do that. 2 

### MS. GRAYDON: Great. Thank you. 3 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, sir. 4 

### Operator, you can close that line. Do we 5 

### have any additional comments that are ready and 6 

### available? 7 

### THE OPERATOR: Yes, we do. We have a 8 

### comment from Cynthia Hilton. 9 

### Your line is open. 10 

### MS. HILTON: Thank you. Thank you, Amy and 11 

### all. 12 

### My question has to do with the personnel 13 

### surety program aspect of CFATS. As you know, there's 14 

### a proposal that is pending at OMB, and I'm just 15 

### wondering if the agency is willing or if it's in the 16 

### plan to kind of leave it there and you are receiving 17 

### comments on this program because you may have 18 

### comments that affect that proposal? Can you respond 19 

### to that at all? 20 

### MS. GRAYDON: So I would say, you know, 21 

### this is -- Cynthia, this is primarily a listening 22 

### session to hear, you know, suggestions that people 23 

### have -- 24 

### MS. HILTON: Oh, okay. I have a suggestion 25 

### then, Amy.

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### MS. GRAYDON: All right. 2 

### MS. HILTON: My suggestion is that you 3 

### receive comments through this process which may touch 4 

### on the personnel surety program before you go to 5 

### finalize that because what you may hear in the 6 

### listening session may alter -- you know, cause you to 7 

### rethink some of the proposals. And so that's my 8 

### recommendation. 9 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, Ms. Hilton. 10 

### Any follow-up questions? 11 

### MS. GRAYDON: No. Not at this time. 12 

### Thank you, Cynthia. 13 

### MS. HILTON: You're welcome. 14 

### MS. FINNERTY: Operator, you may close that 15 

### line. Are there additional speakers in queue? 16 

### THE OPERATOR: There are no additional 17 

### speakers in queue at this time. 18 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you. 19 

### (Pause.) 20 

### THE OPERATOR: We do have a speaker in 21 

### queue at this time. We have David Oberholtzer. 22 23 

### Your line is open. 24 

### MR. OBERHOLZER: Hello. Hope you can hear 25 

### me.

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### MS. FINNERTY: Yes, sir. 2 

### MR. OBERHOLTZER: I do appreciate this 3 

### opportunity, and I'm a little surprised and somewhat 4 

### hopeful that there will be other folks taking 5 

### advantage of this during this time period. 6 

### I would like to just offer some comments, 7 

### and I expect I'll be submitting some written comments 8 

### on this. This is related to the comment made by the 9 

### gentleman from California EPA. We are a small 10 

### company in California subject to a wide range of 11 

### regulatory issues, and in particular, I'm interested 12 

### in seeing how the CFATS regulations are going to deal 13 

### with the release of information that may be 14 

### considered to be CVI. 15 

### There are in California as well as in the 16 

### entire country mostly environmental regulations and 17 

### reporting requirements that will be making or 18 

### continue to make certain types of information 19 

### available to the public. In particular, we are 20 

### dealing with the California Water Quality Board storm 21 

### water regulations, and as part of those regulations, 22 

### each covered facility is required to submit or 23 

### prepare a storm water pollution prevention plan which 24 

### is very comprehensive in terms of facility details, 25 

### including detailed plot plans, locations on a

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### facility of any chemical or substance that is 2 

### considered to be a potential pollutant in storm 3 

### water, which is almost anything and including several 4 

### compounds and chemicals that are on Appendix A under 5 

### the CFATS regulation. And with the new revised 6 

### permit going into effect in July of 2015, these storm 7 

### water pollution prevention plans are required to be 8 

### submitted electronically on our website, maintained 9 

### by the Water Quality Board and will be available for 10 

### public review. 11 

### So the question is, how can we or any 12 

### covered facility under CFATS in California, which 13 

### handles the chemical of interest that may also, as 14 

### the previous caller indicated, overlap into these 15 

### environmental regulations, how are we to comply with 16 

### that with the obvious potential for, one, 17 

### compromising security and, two, revealing what would 18 

### most likely be considered to be CVI for public 19 

### consumption? 20 

### This is a major concern. We will have to 21 

### be out of compliance with California storm water 22 

### regulation or out of compliance with the CVI 23 

### requirements under CFATS. We can't do both. 24 

### MS. FINNERTY: Ms. Graydon, do you have a 25 

### follow-up question?

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### MS. GRAYDON: So do you have -- is there a 2 

### particular part I guess -- it sounds as though you're 3 

### referring to some of the CVI requirements. Do you 4 

### have a specific recommendation on how we could 5 

### address this within the CVI? 6 

### MR. OBERHOLZER: Well, you need to, I 7 

### think, communicate more directly and develop better 8 

### policy regarding the -- how CVI is handled in 9 

### conjunction with other regulations. There are 10 

### statements in the CFATS regulations that are really 11 

### quite vague, you know, that it's not intended to 12 

### conflict with other local, state or federal 13 

### regulations, but, in fact, it does and this conflict 14 

### is significant. 15 

### And I think you need to do a better job in 16 

### providing guidance to covered facilities as to how 17 

### they should deal with these types of conflicts. 18 

### Either develop a consistent program with the other 19 

### regulatory agencies as to what you will and will not 20 

### allow and what is and is not identified as CVI to 21 

### provide some guidance for those of us who are 22 

### seriously struggling with these regulations and 23 

### compliance issues. 24 

### Right now it's almost impossible to comply 25 

### because if we comply with the state storm water

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### regulations, we will be releasing sensitive security 2 

### information for public consumption, and there's no 3 

### way that we can comply with both. And the penalties 4 

### are obviously significant either way. 5 

### So I think what you folks should do is go 6 

### back and take a look at this and spend significant 7 

### time and effort in coordinating with other regulatory 8 

### agencies, local, federal and state, to resolve these 9 

### types of conflicts. Because in about six months, our 10 

### company, and I am positive that several others, will 11 

### be in a situation where we can't comply with both 12 

### even though we're mandated to do so. 13 

### And I know that during the development of 14 

### the California storm water regulation, the new one 15 

### that goes into effect, as I said, in the middle of 16 

### next year, several comments were provided to the 17 

### regulatory agency, the state water board, on this 18 

### issue and they were ignored, completely ignored. 19 

### So we're not getting any kind of 20 

### cooperation between the regulatory agencies on 21 

### serious issues for compliance, and I think you need 22 

### to get better at that and I think you should take 23 

### note and pay attention to it. 24 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, sir. 25 

### Ms. Graydon, do you have follow-up

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### questions? 2 

### MS. GRAYDON: No. 3 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you. 4 

### Operator, you may close the line. 5 

### Operator, is there another person in queue? 6 

### THE OPERATOR: There is no other person in 7 

### queue at this time. 8 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, ma'am. 9 

### (Pause.) 10 

### THE OPERATOR: We do have another speaker 11 

### in queue at this time. I have Brian Gilbaug. 12 13 

### Your line is open. 14 

### MR. GILBAUG: Good morning. 15 

### MS. FINNERTY: Good morning. 16 

### MR. GILBAUG: So I just have a general 17 

### comment about the regulation. I've been dealing with 18 

### it since 2007 when it first came about, and that is 19 

### that the way that it's constructed, it really 20 

### hamstrings a lot of us that would like to comply with 21 

### interacting in a way that we typically do as an 22 

### industry with our peers. 23 

### So it's very common for us in the industry 24 

### that I work in to share information. Not specifics 25 

### about our process but how do we address securing

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### let's say a COI. And that's not okay for us to go 2 

### talk about with our peers in a way that we would 3 

### traditionally do, and how do we handle these other 4 

### similar programs, whether it's a facility engineering 5 

### or a chemical storage or whatever. We traditionally 6 

### would have gone off to our peers and talked about 7 

### this. And historically when we've gone to many of 8 

### these conferences, everybody feels very challenged to 9 

### have any real conversations of any substance. 10 

### And so what I think you end up having is 75 11 

### different people trying to tackle the same exact 12 

### problem and they're tackling it 75 different ways. 13 

### It's not very efficient. It's not very helpful for 14 

### us. And it ends up that when your inspectors are 15 

### going out and looking at these locations, they have 16 

### to analyze the 75 different ways of doing it; 17 

### whereas, if we as an industry all had the same 18 

### problem, all adopted that this is the best way to 19 

### deal with it, it would be easier for your inspectors. 20 

### We would know how to comply a lot easier. We'd have 21 

### a cookie-cutter format that we could all follow. And 22 

### you guys would get what you're looking for, which is 23 

### for it to be secure. And we would have a hell of a 24 

### lot easier time. Right now we feel like we're 25 

### shooting in the dark a lot of times, throwing a dart

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### at a dartboard blindfolded with the lights off. And 2 

### our neighbor across the street has the same exact 3 

### problem, and we can't talk to each other about it. 4 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, sir. 5 

### Ms. Graydon, do you have a follow-up 6 

### question? 7 

### MS. GRAYDON: Thank you for your comments. 8 

### What do you think is the primary item hampering the 9 

### coordination, and do you have a suggestion for -- 10 

### MR. GILBAUG: It's a lot of fear that we're 11 

### going to be stepping over boundaries and disclosing 12 

### CVI information and talking about things that we 13 

### shouldn't talk about. So everybody just generally is 14 

### afraid to talk about anything. 15 

### MS. GRAYDON: So do you have a 16 

### recommendation for what we could do to clarify the 17 

### CVI processes and procedures? 18 

### MR. GILBAUG: Yeah. I think you can go 19 

### back and look at the way the language is written and 20 

### that you accommodate for professional organizations 21 

### to share and disclose information. And even going 22 

### beyond that, I would encourage people from DHS to be 23 

### sponsoring these things within the various industries 24 

### and have open forums where we say, you know, we can 25 

### talk about this and that person kind of sets the

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### ground rules for what's okay to talk about and what's 2 

### not okay to talk about. 3 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, sir. 4 

### Operator, you may close the line. 5 

### THE OPERATOR: We have no further speakers 6 

### in queue at this time. 7 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, ma'am. 8 

### For those that may have recently joined us, 9 

### we are in the listening session webinar for the 10 

### Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards Advance 11 

### Notice of Proposed Rulemaking listening session. 12 

### Our purpose today is to hear a diverse set 13 

### of opinions from across the broad spectrum of 14 

### stakeholders who have an interest in improving and 15 

### streamlining the CFATS rule. 16 

### If you are interested in providing public 17 

### comment, there are two ways to indicate your 18 

### interest. Either start a chat with the host on the 19 

### left side of your webinar screen or dial *1 to 20 

### queue up with the operator. Thank you. 21 

### (Pause.) 22 

### MS. FINNERTY: Good morning and afternoon, 23 

### depending on where you are joining us from. We are 24 

### currently in open session for the CFATS ANPRM 25 

### listening session webinar. I will keep the floor

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### open for additional public comments should you wish 2 

### to speak for a maximum of five minutes. We have some 3 

### speaking instructions on the screen. It's simple. 4 

### Press *1 if you're interested in providing public 5 

### comments. I will mute all phones so that we can 6 

### reduce some background noise, and either I or the 7 

### operator will announce when additional speakers 8 

### indicate that they are ready to provide comments. 9 

### Thank you. 10 

### (Pause.) 11 

### MS. FINNERTY: This is the listening 12 

### session for the Chemical Facility Anti-Terrorism 13 

### Standards Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking or 14 

### CFATS ANPRM. The floor is currently open for 15 

### additional public comments lasting five minutes each. 16 

### If you are interested in making a public comment, 17 

### please dial *1, and the operator will connect you 18 

### through the queue. All microphones will be placed on 19 

### mute to reduce background noise, and either the 20 

### operator or myself will announce when additional 21 

### speakers indicate that they are ready to provide 22 

### their comments. Thank you. 23 

### (Pause.) 24 

### MS. FINNERTY: Hello and thank you for 25 

### joining us for the listening session for the Chemical

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### Facility Anti-Terrorism Standards Advance Notice of 2 

### Proposed Rulemaking. This concludes the public 3 

### listening session. I'd like to turn to Ms. Graydon 4 

### for closing comments. 5 

### MS. GRAYDON: I just want to thank 6 

### everybody who provided comments earlier this 7 

### afternoon or earlier this morning, depending upon 8 

### where you are, and I appreciate everybody else who 9 

### stayed on the line. I would encourage those who were 10 

### listening but didn't provide comment to us on the 11 

### line that, you know, there are ways to submit the 12 

### comments, either electronically or via traditional 13 

### Postal Service mail. The more specific information 14 

### you can provide, the more helpful it is to us as we 15 

### go about, again, kind of looking at the CFATS program 16 

### and looking at the next chapter. 17 

### So, again, thank you very much for your 18 

### participation, and we look forward to your additional 19 

### comments. 20 

### MS. FINNERTY: Thank you, Ms. Graydon. 21 

### On your slide right now you see some 22 

### additional information. If you would like additional 23 

### information on the listening sessions, please visit 24 

### the CFATS Rulemaking website or e-mail 25 

### CFATS@HQ.DHS.gov.

### bayareareporting@gmail.com

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4 We are now adjourned. 5 THE OPERATOR: That concludes today's 6 conference. Thank you for participating. You may

7 disconnect at this time. 8 (Pause.) 9 Ms. FINNERTY: This concludes the listening session. 10 Thank you. 11 THE OPERATOR: This concludes today's 12 conference. Thank you for participating. You may 13 disconnect at this time. 14 (Whereupon, at 2:56 p.m., the 15 16 webinar listening session concluded.) 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

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### COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA AT LARGE, to wit: 2 3 

### I, LAQUICIA THOMAS, Court Reporter and Notary 4 

### Public in and for the Commonwealth of Virginia at 5 

### Large, and whose commission expires February 28, 2018, 6 

### do certify that the foregoing is a true, correct, and 7 

### full transcript of the proceedings. 8 

### I further certify that I am neither related to 9 

### or associated with any counsel or party to the 10 

### proceedings; nor otherwise interested in the event 11 

### thereof. 12 13 14 15 16 

### ________________________________ 17 

### LaQuicia Thomas 18 

### Notary Public 19 

### Commonwealth of Virginia at Large 20 

### Notary No. 7363169 21 22 23 24 25

### bayareareporting@gmail.com

www.bar-tampa.com BAY AREA COURT REPORTING, INC. 866-240-9500 Page 1 A ability 3:1 able 2:7 9:21 15:4 accommodate 28:20 Accountability 8:19 accounting 8:5 achieving 3:18 10:25 Act 4:24 5:24 8:19 19:5,6 action 10:4,5,20 actions 6:11 9:12 9:15 10:8 activities 9:25 add 14:25 added 16:24 additional 3:25 15:24 18:19 20:5 21:15,16 30:1,7,15,20 31:18,22,22 32:3 address 13:12 24:5 26:25 addresses 12:1 adjourned 32:4 administered 6:5 adopted 27:18 advance 1:2 2:4 3:14 10:21 15:9 15:23,25 16:22 29:10 30:13 31:1 advantage 22:5 affairs 8:24 affect 20:18 afraid 28:14 afternoon 4:9 14:8 29:22 31:7 agencies 24:19 25:8,20 agency 6:6 8:2 17:21 20:15 25:17

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areas 10:4,9 Arlington 1:12 13:13 arranged 2:14 as/or 4:21 aside 12:11 asked 12:20 13:1 ASP 7:8 8:1 aspect 20:13 aspects 11:14 ASPs 7:18 Assessments 5:2 5:4 assist 9:20 assistance 14:14 associated 33:9 Association 7:22 associations 7:21 8:6 9:23 attack 4:17 attention 25:23 attractive 4:16 Audio 3:9 August 2:6 9:2 authority 5:9 8:10 authorization 6:22 8:8,11,18 authorize 8:21,22 authorized 4:24 6:21 available 17:8 20:6 22:19 23:9 avoid 8:15 B back 25:6 28:19 background 2:21 30:6,19 based 5:15 Bay 1:19 believes 8:11 11:1 best 7:19 9:20 10:14 27:18 better 18:23

19:14,25 24:7 24:15 25:22 beyond 28:22 bill 8:20,25 bit 12:1 blindfolded 28:1 board 22:20 23:9 25:17 Bohon 17:16,19 17:20 20:1 boundaries 28:11 box 14:10,19 Branch 4:3 Brian 26:11 brief 3:21 briefly 14:5 broad 12:16 29:13 businesses 11:22 C C 2:1 calendar 13:18 California 17:20 18:16 19:5,9 22:9,10,15,20 23:12,21 25:14 call 5:13 13:22 caller 23:14 cause 4:18 21:6 cells 4:15 certain 4:19 6:4 7:20 22:18 certify 33:6,8 CFATS 2:5 3:12 3:21 5:8,11,17 6:14 7:2,10 8:3 8:8,10,13,16,18 8:21 10:22,22 10:24 11:2,11 12:4,8,18 14:9 15:25 17:22 18:3,4,12,22,25 20:13 22:12 23:5,12,23 24:10 29:15,24

30:14 31:15,24 CFATS@HQ.... 31:25 CFR 3:12 challenged 27:8 change 10:6 chapter 12:5 31:16 characteristics 18:7 chat 14:23 15:1,2 15:3,5 17:11 29:18 check 16:15 chemical 1:1 2:3 4:13,16,17,19 4:25 5:7,17,18 6:12 7:22 9:3,5 9:7,12,24 10:1 10:7,17 11:20 16:20 18:2,5,6 18:6,10 19:2 23:1,13 27:5 29:10 30:12,25 chemicals 5:13 8:16 16:24 23:4 Chief4:3 circumstances 5:11 clarification 11:20 clarify 28:16 clarifying 13:3 clear 8:14 click 14:11 15:4 clicking 15:2 close 15:16 17:6 20:4 21:14 26:4 29:4 closing 3:23 31:4 Coast 4:10,10 COI 5:13 6:9 11:16 27:1 collect 16:5 18:1 collected 18:3,8,8

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www.bar-tampa.com BAY AREA COURT REPORTING, INC. 866-240-9500 Page 2 18:10,24 collection 18:10 collects 18:5,13 18:18 colleges 5:20 Commencing 1:8 comment 3:2 11:13,18 16:2,8 17:3,9,11,15 20:8 22:8 26:17 29:17 30:16 31:10 comments 3:5,11 3:16 11:11,24 12:7,21,25 13:1 13:7,17 15:13 15:25 16:4 19:20 20:5,17 20:18 21:3 22:6 22:7 25:16 28:7 30:1,5,8,15,22 31:4,6,12,19 32:3 commission 6:1 33:5 Commitment 9:13 committed 8:8 committee 8:23 common 26:23 Commonwealth 33:1,4,19 communicate 24:7 communities 9:6 9:23 community 10:9 10:17 11:3 companies 7:13 company 19:1 22:10 25:10 completely 25:18 compliance 4:4 6:25 7:17 23:21 23:22 24:23 25:21 comply 23:15

24:24,25 25:3 25:11 26:20 27:20 compounds 23:4 comprehensive 22:24 compromising 23:17 computer 14:12 14:13 concern 23:20 concerns 18:20 concluded 32:16 concludes 31:2 32:5,9,11 conducted 1:6 6:22,24 conference 32:6 32:12 conferences 27:8 conflict 24:12,13 conflicts 24:17 25:9 confusion 18:21 Congress 4:24 5:22 8:9 9:1 conjunction 24:9 connect 30:17 consensus 12:19 consider 11:7 19:25 consideration 11:22 considered 6:10 22:14 23:2,18 considers 18:13 consistent 24:18 constructed 26:19 consumption 23:19 25:2 containing 5:5 continue 7:23 10:3,6 22:18 continuously 7:1 conversations

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