A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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1 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS

2

3

4 Corrected Transcript April 1, 2014

5

6

7

8 ***PUBLIC HEARING***

9 PROPOSED REVISIONS TO THE STANDARDS OF PERFORMANCE

10 FOR NEW RESIDENTIAL WOOD HEATERS

11

12

13

14

15 EPA New England Regional Office

16 5 Post Office Square

17 Leighton Hall, Suite 100

18 Boston, Massachusetts 02109

19 February 26, 2014 9:00 a.m.

20

21

22

23 Christine Manos

24 Shorthand Reporter and Notary Public
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

2 (Pages 2 to 5)

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1 MR. MURPHY: Good morning and welcome.

2 My name is Jim Murphy and I just want to make

3 some remarks about the procedure for -- for

4 today's hearing.

5 We're gonna have Greg Green of EPA make

6 some remarks right before I do that, but we

7 wanted to start off with -- I wanted to

8 introduce our EPA Regional Administrator for

9 New England, Curt Spalding, just for some

10 welcoming remarks.

11 MR. SPAULDING: Thanks, Jim, and welcome

12 everyone. It's a pleasure to have you all

13 join us here in -- in Leighton Hall.

14 On behalf of the Administrator,

15 Gina McCarthy, of course, the Assistant

16 Administrator, Janet McCabe, it's great to

17 see you all here to comment on new wood stove

18 heater standards that we proposed back

19 in -- in early February.

20 Now, we all know we've had a very cold,

21 hard winter in New England this year and we

22 all know a lot of wood is being burned at

23 homes all over the region and that hopefully

24 that wood is burned indoor and outdoor in

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1 outdoor boilers and indoor stoves. Some of

2 those stoves can be terrific, some of those

3 stoves can be inefficient. We all know

4 there's a great variety of -- of efficiency

5 and effectiveness when it comes to those

6 stoves and how well they actually burn the

7 fuel that's in them.

8 We propose that, beginning in 2015, new

9 stoves and heaters will be asked to be

10 eighty-percent cleaner than the units that

11 are built and sold today. Improving

12 emissions from wood heaters means better air

13 quality and -- and, most of all, better

14 public health, especially in our rural

15 communities across this region.

16 I don't think any of us would be

17 surprised to know that when wood stoves are

18 cranked up in the valleys across New England,

19 you can see air pollution that rivals just

20 the worst air pollution we see on hot summer

21 days here -- here in our urban areas.

22 Wood smoke contains fine particles and

23 toxic pollutants which can reach harmful

24 levels to peoples' health, especially

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1 sensitive levels -- especially sensitive

2 populations, people with asthma and, without

3 being too personal about things, I'm one of

4 those people. So, for your family and

5 friends, this is good for them and good for

6 their health.

7 Fine particle pollution is linked to

8 very serious health effects beyond the

9 chronic problems that go with asthma

10 including heart attacks, strokes and then, of

11 course, serious asthma attacks that can

12 trigger things that really do threaten the

13 lives of people in our communities.

14 Now, reducing wood smoke with

15 more -- more efficient heater technology will

16 improve the well-being of our communities

17 across most of New England, and I want to

18 speak about those rural areas especially.

19 People don't have a choice of where they

20 are in the winter. They're shut in, it's

21 hard to move around, so they must deal with

22 this situation as -- as they try to keep

23 their homes -- homes warm. Now, EPA -- EPA's

24 rule would only affect new wood heaters

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1 manufactured beginning -- beginning in 2015,

2 and I want to make -- repeat that point.

3 We're not talking about anyone having to go

4 back and rip a wood stove or heater out of

5 their home at this point.

6 It will not affect heaters and stoves

7 that are in use or -- or have been in use and

8 they would not affect fireplaces, fire pits,

9 barbecues, ovens, all those things that

10 people normally do sporadically, not

11 consistently, such as burn wood in their

12 fireplace and -- and exit it out their

13 chimneys.

14 Now, one might ask, well, what does that

15 mean for -- for health? A lot of people have

16 wood stoves for -- for a long time or -- or

17 wood -- wood boilers. Well, in this region,

18 we've decided or we've been fortunate to have

19 a combined effort on this.

20 And so, for example, with the settlement

21 with Dominion, we were able to put forth a

22 supplemental environmental project to put

23 together over two million dollars to go ahead

24 and help people pay for changing out their
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

3 (Pages 6 to 9)

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1 wood stoves. So for southeastern New

2 England, the area around Somerset, people

3 actually can get grants to replace their old

4 wood stoves and this method has been done

5 over and over again in New England.

6 We've seen the projects up in Keene, New

7 Hampshire and other places. So

8 combined -- this regulation combined with

9 proactive incentives, financial incentives,

10 can indeed accelerate the benefits of this

11 regulation and improve air quality in -- in

12 our rural areas. We're very proud of the

13 fact that we linked these tools together and

14 actually get benefits without creating undue

15 hardship to -- to the community.

16 So I want to thank you all for coming

17 today. I know in my job complaints about

18 wood -- especially outdoor wood boilers and

19 wood pollution is -- is as much -- is as

20 frequent as any complaint I get into our

21 office, so we know this is an important issue

22 to many in New England and we thank you all

23 for coming.

24 MR. MURPHY: Thanks, Curt. I just

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1 wanted to introduce the panel before we ask

2 Greg to come up with his opening statement,

3 so sharing our panel today is Greg Green who

4 is the Director of Outreach and Information

5 Division in EPA's Office of Air Quality

6 Planning and Standards in our North Carolina

7 office.

8 With Greg are Gil Wood, the Project

9 Leader for this proposed rule and he also

10 works in our North Carolina office, and

11 Dr. Alison Simcox who's a residential wood

12 heater expert here in New England EPA office.

13 So, before I go over the procedures, I just

14 wanted to turn things over to Greg for his

15 overview of the proposal.

16 MR. GREEN: Thank you, Jim. Can

17 everybody hear me okay? It's good, thanks.

18 As Jim mentioned, my name is Greg Green and

19 I'm the Director of the Outreach and

20 Information Division in EPA's Office of Air

21 Quality Planning and Standards in Research

22 Triangle Park in North Carolina.

23 We are here today to listen to your

24 comments on our proposal to revise EPA's New

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1 Source Performance Standards for Residential

2 Wood Heaters. EPA proposed these revisions

3 in January of this year to strengthen

4 emission requirements for new wood stoves,

5 while establishing the standards for several

6 other types of new residential wood heaters,

7 including outdoor and indoor wood-fired

8 boilers which are also known as hydronic

9 heaters, pellet stoves, forced air furnaces,

10 masonry wood heaters and a type of previously

11 unregulated wood stove known as a single-burn

12 rate stove.

13 EPA issued the existing regulations for

14 wood heaters in 1988. That rule applied to

15 adjustable burn-rate wood stoves and

16 fireplace inserts. Since that time, the

17 technology for reducing emissions from wood

18 heaters has significantly improved and now is

19 available to include a range of wood heaters

20 more efficient and less polluting.

21 As Regional Administrator Spalding

22 noted, the proposed updates would make new

23 residential wood heaters significantly

24 cleaner than currently required, reducing

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1 emissions of fine particles and other

2 pollutants that can pose significant health

3 problems, especially for people with heart or

4 vascular diseases and lung disease for both

5 adults and children.

6 Under the proposal, the manufacturer

7 would meet emission limits in two phases over

8 five years. That would give manufacturers

9 time to adapt the new technology to

10 their -- to their model lines.

11 The health benefits of the proposed

12 rules are large. The EPA estimates that for

13 every dollar spent to comply with these new

14 standards, the American public will see

15 between $118.00 and $287.00 in health

16 benefits.

17 EPA estimates the increases in costs to

18 make the cleaner units would range from an

19 estimated two percent for pellet stove

20 manufacturers to six percent for

21 manufacturers of single burn-rate stoves.

22 So, before I turn things back over to

23 Jim, I would like to take a minute to

24 underscore what this rule would not cover.
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

4 (Pages 10 to 13)

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1 The proposal would not affect any wood

2 burning heaters, fireplaces or stoves that

3 are in stores today or are currently in use

4 in peoples' homes. It only applies to

5 devices manufactured in the future so, if you

6 have a wood stove or other type of wood

7 heater at your house now, this rule would not

8 apply to that stove.

9 The rule also would not apply to outdoor

10 fireplaces, pizza ovens, barbecues or

11 chimineas, and it would not apply to new or

12 existing heaters that are fueled by only oil,

13 gas or coal.

14 In addition, the proposed rule would

15 also not apply to indoor fireplaces, because

16 fireplaces are not effective heaters.

17 However, EPA is seeking data and comments on

18 this issue.

19 We will prepare a written transcript of

20 the hearing. The transcript for the hearing

21 will be available as part of the official

22 record for this rule. EPA will consider your

23 comments as we move forward to complete a

24 final rule which we anticipate issuing by

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1 February 2015. We are also accepting written

2 comments on the proposed rule until May 5th,

3 2014. There are handouts with detailed

4 information for submitting written comments

5 available at the registration area, so I want

6 to turn things back over to Jim who will

7 describe the procedures for today's hearing.

8 Thank you.

9 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Greg. Okay, so

10 a couple of things. I'm going to call the

11 scheduled speakers to the microphones in

12 pairs, so we'll have two folks up at this

13 table in the front.

14 When it's your turn to speak, please

15 state your name and your affiliation before

16 you begin your testimony, and we ask you to

17 spell your name to help the court reporter

18 who's sitting over here, so we can prepare

19 the transcript.

20 In order to be fair to everyone, we are

21 asking folks to limit your testimony to five

22 minutes each. We have a little timekeeping

23 system which is my responsibility. I

24 will -- there's a -- a little light that will

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1 turn green at the -- when you start speaking,

2 and then there's a yellow light at four

3 minutes and then a red light at five minutes

4 which -- which means stops. We have a very,

5 very high-tech machine here. We had a big

6 traffic light before so this is a big

7 step -- a big step up for us here.

8 So we'll -- the two speakers, we'll just

9 ask you to stay there until -- until

10 both -- both people have finished. If you

11 have written copies of your testimony, we're

12 asking you to give -- if you have a copy, to

13 leave it with our staff out at the

14 registration table.

15 If you have other written comments, you

16 may also leave them at the registration table

17 and we'll make sure they're entered into the

18 docket for the proposed rule. Today's

19 hearing will continue until 7:00 p.m. We'll

20 take a lunch break from 12:30 until 2:00 and

21 then we'll reconvene at 2:00.

22 So if you would like to testify but you

23 haven't registered to do so, please sign up

24 at the table outside. If you have a

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1 presentation that you haven't given to us

2 already, we have Randy who's standing in the

3 back who would be able to -- to load that up

4 from, you know, memory stick or whatever,

5 whatever you have, and if you could give that

6 to him, you know, as soon as possible, that

7 would -- that would just help things move

8 along.

9 So we're just gonna ask for your, you

10 know, patience as we go through the list of

11 speakers. As you know, people -- we did have

12 people sign up in advance. There's a number

13 of people who have signed up who are not here

14 so we're just gonna ask you to be flexible.

15 We may ask people to go earlier than they had

16 planned. We'll just see how the day goes.

17 And if you have any questions during the

18 course of the day, there's several staff

19 folks outside at the registration table who

20 would be happy to help you. The last quick

21 note is the restrooms are -- you can go

22 through this door over here but you can't

23 enter -- re-enter this door. You'd have to

24 go back around the main -- to the main
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

5 (Pages 14 to 17)

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1 entrance. And there is a -- a small

2 snack -- snack bar where you can get coffee

3 and some things on the third floor. Just

4 take the elevators right -- right across from

5 the main entrance. And, with that, I think

6 we're ready to go.

7 And I'm gonna ask the first two speakers

8 to come up and that's Jack Goldman and Ryan

9 Carroll. Okay. Mr. Goldman, we're gonna

10 share that mic so you should be able

11 to -- you can just move it around.

12 MR. GOLDMAN: Good morning. My name is

13 Jack Goldman, G-O-L-D-M-A-N. I am President

14 and CEO of the Hearth, Patio & Barbecue

15 Association located in Arlington, Virginia.

16 The Association represents the manufacturers,

17 distributors and retailers of wood and pellet

18 burning appliances, all of the appliances in

19 the agency's proposed ruling.

20 We thank you for the opportunity to

21 testify on the proposed NSPS. My testimony

22 will provide our overall view of the proposal

23 and focus on wood stoves, but much of our

24 critique applies to the other product lines

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1 covered in the proposal. Both the industry

2 and EPA share the goal of making further

3 progress in reducing particulate loadings.

4 It is good for our health and for our

5 businesses.

6 HPBA has a long history of collaborating

7 with EPA, particularly in wood stove change

8 outs in the Libby, Montana wood stove change

9 out in the mid-2000's and in many other

10 change outs in the US. These change outs

11 have been proven to reduce air pollution and

12 improve air quality.

13 HPBA supports revisions to the NSPS. In

14 fact, we even asked EPA to start the process

15 several years ago. HPBA and its members have

16 provided virtually all of the data and

17 research that EPA has available for this rule

18 making at considerable expense to the

19 industry.

20 EPA, unfortunately, has not applied our

21 data in a reasonable, meaningful way. For

22 reasons to be discussed later, the low

23 emissions limits in conjunction with changes

24 to the analytical methodology and with the

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1 new fuel to be used, cord wood in place of

2 crib, make the new limits exceedingly

3 difficult to achieve, even in a

4 highly-controlled laboratory environment.

5 Currently, no appliance can meet all three

6 sets of requirements.

7 As a result, BDT has not been

8 demonstrated by EPA. EPA has failed to

9 provide any data showing that any of our

10 members can meet the new regulations

11 proposed. In addition, this is an industry

12 populated overwhelmingly by small businesses.

13 Because our industry's health is very

14 closely tied to new home building and

15 remodelling, these businesses are just

16 beginning to emerge from a horrendous

17 recession. They're in no position to invest

18 the relatively huge sums that this proposal

19 will require for research, testing,

20 certification and retooling plants.

21 Two things will thus happen if the

22 proposed regulations are promulgated as

23 currently written. One, many smaller

24 companies will go out of business and, two,

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1 the prices of wood stoves will increase

2 significantly and innovation for continued

3 improvement will suffer if companies cannot

4 stay in business or afford research and

5 development.

6 Here is the bottom line, the goal of the

7 NSPS is to further reduce particulate

8 loadings, but this proposal will have the

9 perverse result of freezing the replacement

10 of the six to seven million old, polluting

11 wood stoves. The current price tag of up to

12 $4,000.00 for a wood stove has a payout that

13 consumers can understand and realize.

14 Consumers will conclude that investing

15 in a wood stove that costs significantly more

16 will not pay for itself soon enough, so the

17 replacement of older, dirtier wood stoves

18 will stop in its tracks and significant

19 progress in lowering wood stove and wood

20 smoke emissions by replacing the old

21 polluting stoves, where the real potential

22 for lowering emissions is, will come to a

23 screeching halt. This unintended consequence

24 is precisely what we do not want to happen.
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

6 (Pages 18 to 21)

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1 Let me reiterate, HPBA strongly supports

2 meaningful reductions to improve air quality

3 but we are in favor of reasonable

4 regulations, not regulations that impossibly

5 lower the emissions limits, change the

6 analytical methodology and change the fuel to

7 be used simultaneously, all without having

8 the data needed to show that all three

9 simultaneous changes are physically possible.

10 HPBA and the hearth industry urge EPA to

11 consider the choice, theoretically squeeze

12 every last gram of particulate emissions out

13 of new wood stoves and ensure the continued

14 use of older, dirty wood stoves or reduce

15 emissions reasonably and continue to keep new

16 wood stoves in the financial reach of the

17 average consumer and so encourage the

18 replacement of older, dirty wood stoves, and

19 I'd like to add that that's especially an

20 issue with people who live in rural areas.

21 Anyway, thank you very much for the

22 opportunity to testify on the proposal and I

23 am available to answer any questions, either

24 now or after the hearing. Thank you.

Page 19

1 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Mr. Carroll.

2 MR. CARROLL: Thank you. Good morning.

3 Thank you for the opportunity to comment.

4 I'm Ryan Carroll, C-A-R-R-O-L-L, Associate

5 Director of Government Affairs for the

6 Hearth, Patio & Barbecue Association.

7 As you heard from Mr. Goldman, HPBA is

8 very concerned that this proposed rule will

9 have major unintended consequences. We are

10 especially concerned that it will lengthen

11 the time of use of most of the old,

12 uncontrolled wood stoves in homes across the

13 nation which continue to heat and smoke.

14 We assume that, given the large numbers

15 of changes in the proposal, most, if not all,

16 of our -- of our industry's units will have

17 to be redesigned and retested. We're certain

18 that these changes will raise the cost

19 considerably more than EPA's estimate of one

20 hundred dollars per unit.

21 I'd like to focus on one particular

22 aspect of our concerns which has not yet

23 received a lot of attention, but may help EPA

24 and other NGO's understand one of our key

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1 concerns and that would be units sold. I

2 think that some observers may overestimate

3 the modest number of new stoves sold each

4 year and thereby underestimate the potential

5 impact of this proposal on our small business

6 manufacturers.

7 The cost and impact of all of the

8 proposed changes to the test method has to be

9 spread over the number of units that we sell,

10 so this is surely a key component to our

11 member's concerns regarding the potential

12 cost to consumers of these changes.

13 I'm going to use 2012 numbers since

14 that's the last full year for which we have

15 data. Due to the cold weather this fall, we

16 know that the 2013 numbers will look better

17 by a little bit but it's really the order of

18 magnitude that is -- that is key here.

19 I will address this issue from two

20 different perspectives, the number of cast

21 iron stoves shipped by all manufacturers and

22 the volume of one particular small steel

23 manufacturer. In both cases, these -- these

24 examples include both catalytic and

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1 non-catalytic stoves.

2 In 2012, ten manufacturers reported that

3 they shipped just over 25,000 cast iron

4 stoves, with the bulk of these coming from

5 three large leading companies in cast iron

6 plus several other companies with one or two

7 models of cast iron stoves. We know that the

8 pattern -- we know the pattern change for

9 cast iron stoves is on the order of

10 $250,000.00, regardless of whether it's

11 catalytic or non-catalytic.

12 And if these shipments are represented

13 by even fifteen models, than this is an

14 investment of 3.75 million for the industry

15 just in casting changes alone, not counting

16 any R&D or testing costs.

17 Given the modest number of units shipped

18 and the sizable investment required for each

19 model, our manufacturers of cast iron stoves

20 are concerned that none of these models may

21 survive, given the numerous simultaneous

22 changes contemplated in this proposal. To

23 give an example on steel, I'm purposely going

24 to focus on one small but robust company that
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

7 (Pages 22 to 25)

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1 has built up five models of EPA-certified

2 stoves over the last two decades but sells

3 only seven to eight hundred a year total.

4 If they face a step two deadline for

5 all the -- all of their models at once, they

6 don't have the capital to make that big of an

7 investment and -- and they simply cannot

8 borrow enough -- borrow enough money at one

9 time to get all their models designed and

10 approved under the proposed rules.

11 One could be cavalier and say, well,

12 yeah, some small businesses, some small

13 manufacturers just aren't going to make the

14 cut, but let's not forget that these are by

15 current EPA stove levels which may be very

16 solid performers in homes, they're simply

17 written off without a chance to prove their

18 value.

19 Yes, they -- they probably could certify

20 one of their units to the new proposed

21 analytical method but one unit's not a line

22 and there's little prospect of the company

23 surviving with -- with just the one product.

24 Our companies, both large and small, have had

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1 twenty years to evolve model lines that give

2 consumers a number of options. Companies

3 have taken this time to optimize both the

4 emissions and the cost of these stoves.

5 The massive changes suggested for step

6 two, excuse me, the -- the combination of the

7 different fuel, many different changes

8 and -- and test parameters and a new

9 algorithim all on a single date with no

10 carryover of previous certificates are simply

11 overwhelming for our manufacturers.

12 So why are companies telling you both

13 today and in their formal comments that if

14 even a portion of the many changes proposed

15 here are promulgated, that they will face

16 major costs, leaving them the unenviable

17 decision between passing on those costs to

18 consumers, laying off employees or shuttering

19 the doors, these types of considerations are

20 the reason why.

21 In order to develop new compliant

22 models, companies will have to significantly

23 raise prices. A marked increase in prices

24 will naturally impact sales. This is but one

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1 example of part of the proposal that fails to

2 accurately consider its real world impact.

3 Unfortunately, this is just the type of

4 mistaken analysis that can lead to the

5 perverse unintended consequence of keeping

6 older stoves, exactly the products that

7 we -- that would reduce the emissions the

8 most in the market at the expense of newer,

9 cleaner technology.

10 Thank you for your time and I'm

11 available for comments now or later,

12 questions now or later.

13 MR. MURPHY: Thanks, Mr. Carroll. Any

14 questions from the panel?

15 MR. WOOD: No.

16 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, gentlemen.

17 MR. CARROLL: Thank you.

18 MR. MURPHY: Our next two speakers will

19 be Martin Suuberg and Nancy Seidman. It

20 seems like there's a little buzzer going off

21 at a minute which I don't know how to get rid

22 of. The directions in the back say don't

23 panic if you select the wrong button

24 but -- so we won't panic but, if you hear the

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1 little beep at a minute, it's -- it means

2 nothing. Okay, Mr. Suuberg next.

3 MR. SUUBERG: Thank you. My name is

4 Martin Suuberg, S-U-U-B-E-R-G, and I'm the

5 Deputy Commissioner of Policy at the

6 Massachusetts Department of Environmental

7 Protection.

8 I want to thank EPA for the opportunity

9 to testify today on this very important

10 topic. Many families in Massachusetts and

11 across the United States rely on wood-burning

12 devices to heat their homes, making it

13 essential that we provide the cleanest and

14 best technology to meet this need.

15 World-wide, large strides have been made

16 to improve the performance of wood-burning

17 devices, making them cleaner and more

18 efficient, benefitting consumers and public

19 health. EPA's proposed rule will begin to

20 bring US standards in line with those already

21 in place in Europe, bringing much needed

22 protection of public health and improving the

23 market for wood-burning devices. Residential

24 wood combustion is the largest direct source
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HEARING February 26, 2014

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1 of particulate matter or PM nationwide and

2 results in significant emissions of air

3 toxins.

4 Residential wood combustion can

5 contribute from 20 to 75 percent of ambient

6 PM levels in many cities and towns in the

7 colder winter months. This creates air

8 pollution where the public's exposure is

9 greatest at home and in the neighborhoods

10 where people live.

11 Inhaling PM pollution can affect the

12 lungs and heart causing health risks,

13 including premature death in people with lung

14 or heart disease, nonfatal heart attacks,

15 aggravated asthma and decreased lung

16 function. The proposed NSPS will help reduce

17 these health risks in a cost-effective way.

18 The proposed NSPS is among the most

19 cost-effective control strategies that EPA

20 has developed to address PM, costing less

21 than one thousand dollars per ton of

22 PM reduced. It would provide estimated

23 monetized health benefits of greater than 4

24 billion dollars per year at a cost of 16

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1 million dollars per year, which is a benefit

2 to cost ratio of greater than one hundred to

3 one. The proposed NSPS will provide economic

4 benefits to consumers and manufacturers as

5 well.

6 Typically, cleaner-burning units are

7 more energy efficient which lowers the

8 long-term cost of ownership due to reduced

9 fuel use. Current central heating units have

10 efficiency as low as 28 percent for outdoor

11 wood boilers and typical wood stoves are

12 about sixty-percent efficient.

13 Since the European union placed more

14 stringent emission limits on solid wood

15 fueled units, the average efficiency has

16 increased from 55 percent to more than 90

17 percent. By reducing fuel use by about

18 one-third in the United States, this would

19 save the average US homeowner with a wood

20 stove about $300.00 per year or $3,000.00

21 over ten years.

22 Many US manufacturers already produce

23 cleaner-burning units and will benefit from

24 the NSPS, however, without this rule there is

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1 no incentive for others to improve technology

2 standards. Massachusetts energy programs are

3 increasingly focusing on renewable heating

4 technologies, such as wood pellet and chip

5 boilers, furnaces and stoves as a way to

6 offer consumers an alternative to high-cost

7 fossil fuels and to realize important

8 greenhouse gas reductions and economic

9 benefits.

10 We are preparing to add these

11 technologies to our alternative portfolio

12 standards, for which clear standards in terms

13 of emissions and fuel quality will be key.

14 Massachusetts generally supports the proposed

15 emissions standards, however, we ask the EPA

16 make the final phase-one standards more

17 stringent for space heaters and central

18 heaters.

19 We know from our Massachusetts wood

20 stove change out programs that wood stoves

21 that go beyond the phase-one standards are

22 widely available. Massachusetts is currently

23 running its second wood stove change out

24 program, providing vouchers of $750.00 to

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1 $2,000.00 to Massachusetts residents who

2 trade in their existing non EPA-certified

3 stoves for cleaner and more efficient models.

4 Last year, the program helped replace more

5 than 450 old, inefficient stoves. This year,

6 we are providing more money and expect to see

7 even more stoves replaced.

8 Since many cleaner-burning wood stoves

9 are already in the market, we've set

10 emissions standards for the change out

11 program that are more stringent than the

12 proposed NSPS, 3.5 grams per hour of PM for

13 non-catalytic and 2 grams per hour PM for

14 catalytic.

15 We do want to flag that whole-house wood

16 pellets -- boilers are becoming more

17 prevalent in the US. They provide even

18 higher efficiencies, air quality benefits and

19 greenhouse gas reductions. Massachusetts is

20 poised to incentivise these appliances, which

21 lead us to ask that EPA also consider

22 developing emissions standards for this

23 category of device. We support the proposed

24 improvements to the certification test
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

9 (Pages 30 to 33)

Page 30

1 procedures and requirements for using

2 certified pellet fuel to ensure that real

3 world exposures are reduced.

4 A robust federal pellet and chip

5 standard should also incorporate requirements

6 about the resources used to manufacture the

7 fuel since that directly influences criteria

8 pollutant and greenhouse gas emissions, as

9 well as the sustainability of the forest

10 management practices.

11 We ask that EPA incorporate some of the

12 European quality standards including percent

13 of white ash, content and prohibition of bark

14 in the production of wood pellets, as well as

15 sustainable practices.

16 Finally, we urge EPA to implement the

17 time lines as proposed and we will be

18 submitting more detailed comments as part of

19 NESCAUM's submission. Thank you.

20 MR. MURPHY: Thank you.

21 MS. SEIDMAN: Good morning. My name is

22 Nancy Seidman, S-E-I-D-M-A-N, and I'm an

23 Assistant Commissioner at the Massachusetts

24 Department of Environmental Protection. I am

Page 31

1 here today on behalf of NACA, the National

2 Association of Clean Air agencies. Thank you

3 for this opportunity to testify on US EPA's

4 proposed New Source Performance Standard for

5 new residential wood heaters.

6 NACA is a non -- national nonpartisan

7 non-profit association of air pollution

8 control agencies in 42 states, the District

9 of Columbia, four territories and over 116

10 metropolitan areas. The air quality

11 professionals in our member agencies have

12 vast experience dedicated to improving air

13 quality in the US.

14 These comments are based upon that

15 experience. The views expressed in these

16 comments do not necessarily represent the

17 position of every state and local air

18 pollution control agency in the country.

19 NACA welcomes this proposal which marks

20 the first time EPA has revisited emission

21 limits for new wood stoves and heaters

22 since 1988. According to EPA, residential

23 wood combustion is responsible for more than

24 345,000 tons of fine particulate matter

Page 32

1 emissions a year nationally, causing many

2 counties across the country either to exceed

3 or come precariously close to exceeding the

4 health-based standards for fine PM.

5 In addition to fine PM, residential wood

6 smoke also contains other harmful substances,

7 including carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides

8 and toxic air pollutants such as polycyclic

9 organic matter, polycyclic aromatic

10 hydrocarbons, formaldehyde, benzene and

11 dioxin.

12 EPA estimates that forty-four percent of

13 all stationary and local source polycyclic

14 organic matter, almost a quarter of all area

15 source air toxic cancerous and fifteen

16 percent of non-cancer respiratory impacts can

17 be attributed to residential wood combustion,

18 therefore NACA is very pleased with many

19 features of EPA's proposal which will lead to

20 improvements in and broader federal control

21 of residential wood combustion devices.

22 We cannot overstate the importance of

23 federal standards for these sources.

24 Residential wood combustion is extremely

Page 33

1 difficult to regulate at the state level

2 because the devices are installed and

3 operated in private homes and consumers are

4 able to purchase wood heaters and stoves

5 outside their own state, which would enable a

6 consumer to purchase a device that does not

7 meet the standard of his or her state of

8 resident.

9 Further, we endorse EPA's proposal to

10 apply for the first time federal emission

11 limits to an expanded array of new

12 residential wood combustion devices. While

13 the current New Source Performance Standard

14 applies to a narrowly-defined set of indoor

15 wood stoves excluding a broad range of

16 residential wood-heating devices, the

17 agency's proposal appropriately includes new

18 and outdoor hydronic heaters, also known as

19 wood fire boilers, single-burn rate stoves,

20 forced air furnaces, masonry heaters and

21 additional pellet stoves.

22 We are also in favor of rigorous

23 emission limits for all sources affected by

24 the proposal, including new adjustable burn
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

10 (Pages 34 to 37)

Page 34

1 rate wood heaters, those that were the focus

2 of EPA's 1988 rule, as well as for

3 newly-covered devices.

4 Although NACA supports numerous facets

5 of EPA's proposed rule, there are several

6 provisions that could be strengthened. We

7 believe manufacturers can do better than what

8 EPA has proposed, especially with regard to

9 the level of the emission standards and the

10 pace of required improvements.

11 We are still studying these provisions

12 but, for example, with respect to the

13 standards under EPA's proposal, at least

14 seventy percent of the affected devices

15 already meet a standard that is one-third

16 lower than the proposed phase one standard of

17 4.5 grams particulate matter per hour.

18 EPA has proposed that the final

19 emissions standards represent the best system

20 of emission reductions, in quote, technology

21 that the administrator has determined exists

22 and has been adequately demonstrated. In

23 determining the best system of emission

24 reduction, the administrator also takes into

Page 35

1 consideration cost as well as non-air quality

2 health and environmental impacts and energy

3 requirements. EPA's has proposed a preferred

4 compliance option and an alternative.

5 We favor EPA's preferred option of a

6 two-step, five-year compliance approach over

7 the alternative of a three-step, eight-year

8 approach. However, we question whether five

9 years as contemplated under the preferred

10 option is too long, given that the proposed

11 final standards, based on the best system of

12 emission reduction, are already being met by

13 top industry performers.

14 Finally, while more stringent emissions

15 standards are a positive step, EPA should

16 develop a testing methodology that represents

17 real world conditions, for example, in order

18 to make tighter standards more meaningful,

19 NACA recommends that EPA as soon as possible

20 establish an emissions factor for cord wood

21 combustion instead of using

22 kiln-dried -- kiln-dried crib wood for

23 emissions certification. In the coming

24 weeks, NACA will continue to study these and

Page 36

1 other aspects of the proposal and will

2 provide more specific comments by the May 5th

3 deadline.

4 In the meantime, we thank you again for

5 this opportunity to testify and look forward

6 to working with EPA and other stakeholders to

7 ensure an effective final rule yielding

8 meaningful reductions in emissions from

9 residential wood heaters and improved air

10 quality and public health across the country.

11 Thank you.

12 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any questions

13 for the panel? Okay. Our next

14 speakers -- thank you -- will be Mark Klein

15 and Owen Liu. All set.

16 MR. KLEIN: Good morning. My name is

17 Mark Klein, K-L-E-I-N, and I'm the President

18 and Chief Executive Officer of Innovative

19 Hearth Products. We manufacture a variety of

20 stoves, inserts and fireplaces with our

21 primary distribution being North America.

22 We employ over 660 people in

23 manufacturing operations in Auburn,

24 Washington, Santa Ana, California, Union

Page 37

1 City, Tennessee and Russellville, Alabama.

2 We fully support the EPA and others in

3 taking steps to reduce pollution and improve

4 air quality. We have a material stake in

5 this proposed rule and for many years have

6 worked hard to support our industry and the

7 EPA in establishing particulate emission

8 limits to improve air quality.

9 We also support reducing particulates

10 from their current levels, however, EPA's

11 approach within this proposed NSPS is

12 overreaching, will not achieve any

13 significant air quality improvement and the

14 engineering and cost hurdles to achieve these

15 levels are significant, as are the increased

16 cost to the consumer.

17 This type of regulation will actually

18 have a negative affect on air quality. About

19 two-thirds of wood stoves in use were

20 produced prior to 1988 when the original NSPS

21 was adopted. This current proposed NSPS and

22 specifically the 1.3 grams per hour limit,

23 disingenuous test methods and aggressive

24 schedules will drive the cost of our products
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

11 (Pages 38 to 41)

Page 38

1 to unaffordable levels, for most people

2 putting them out of reach for lower-income

3 families that use wood to heat their homes.

4 The higher costs associated with new

5 wood stoves under this proposed NSPS will

6 inadvertently slow the rate of consumers

7 changing out their old, dirty stoves to new,

8 cleaner models where most incremental air

9 quality gain would have been what, changing

10 out old dirty stoves for new, cleaner models.

11 We urge EPA to rethink its approach and

12 to recognize that, while an aggressive

13 approach can have benefits, it is important

14 to work with manufacturers and achieve a

15 common sense of balance.

16 An equally-significant issue for IHP and

17 others in our industry that together

18 represent well over half the market, the wood

19 burning fireplaces is the increasing tendency

20 of communities around the nation to ban the

21 installation of wood-burning fireplaces in

22 new and renovated homes.

23 With the adoption of this NSPS, current

24 unregulated wood-burning fireplaces will

Page 39

1 likely become the largest source of

2 particulate matter pollution in the United

3 States. As you know, our company has brought

4 this issue to your agency's attention

5 requesting that EPA use the current rule

6 making or a parallel rule making to develop a

7 category and performance standards for

8 such -- for such fireplaces.

9 Doing so provides for the installation

10 of cleaner wood-burning fireplaces in new and

11 renovated homes rendering local bans

12 unnecessary. This approach would be

13 pro-consumer, pro-environment and

14 pro-employment.

15 Use of cleaner-burning technologies

16 including fireplaces has been requested in

17 letters to EPA by the American Lung

18 Association, NESCAUM, WESTAR, NACAA, ECOS and

19 other stakeholders. As your agency continues

20 to reduce the allowable amount of particulate

21 matter across the air districts nationally,

22 it's logical that additional air districts

23 will also ban wood-burning fireplaces.

24 Accordingly, we strongly encourage you to

Page 40

1 issue a separate NSPS for wood-burning

2 fireplaces using a framework that is readily

3 available.

4 Over four years ago, EPA worked with the

5 industry and implemented a voluntary

6 fireplace program which established the best

7 system of emission reduction and the standard

8 of performance through its adoption of test

9 methos ASTME2558 or EPA's phase-two emission

10 level.

11 Fireplaces tested and approved to this

12 standard burn seventy to eighty percent

13 cleaner than wood -- than standard

14 wood-burning fireplaces. For the past four

15 years, approximately ten companies spent

16 millions of dollars and qualified over thirty

17 fireplaces to this phase two admission level.

18 The EPA estimated that the cost per ton

19 to eliminate particulate matter for the

20 clean-burning wood fireplace is only

21 $9,500.00. The EPA also estimated the

22 healthcare costs for one ton of particulate

23 matter to be as high as $780,000.00. If this

24 were an economic trade off decision in the

Page 41

1 private sector, there would be no hesitation.

2 Over the past ten years, almost two

3 million fireplaces have been shipped without

4 such clean burning technology installed,

5 which means they are producing a significant

6 amount of particulate matter that could have

7 been avoided.

8 Affordable clean-burning technology

9 already exists and is in place now. For

10 every cord of wood that is burned, these

11 phase-two wood-burning fireplaces eliminate

12 611 pounds of pollution.

13 Common sense would suggest that EPA

14 should take immediate steps to incorporate

15 the voluntary standard into its mandatory

16 regulation scheme, thereby reducing

17 pollution, lowering healthcare costs,

18 continuing to give millions of consumers,

19 some low-income, the option of heating with

20 wood and keeping our industry and employment

21 levels strong.

22 Let's work together to create a proper

23 balance of technology and regulations to

24 deliver the most environmentally-friendly
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

12 (Pages 42 to 45)

Page 42

1 products that are affordable to the consumer

2 and will keep our industry viable. Thank

3 you.

4 MR. MURPHY: Thank you.

5 MR. LIU: Hi. My name is -- my name is

6 Owen Liu, L-I-U, and I'm here on behalf of

7 Environmental Defense Fund. On behalf of

8 Environmental Defense Fund and our more than

9 750,000 members nationwide, thank you for the

10 opportunity to testify in support of EPA's

11 vital proposed standards to reduce soot,

12 carbon monoxide and toxic air pollution from

13 new residential stoves, furnaces and boilers.

14 This long overdue proposal will

15 modernize emissions standards for wood stoves

16 and establish the first nationwide limits on

17 harmful pollutants from wood boilers and

18 furnaces, preventing hundreds of deaths each

19 year and yielding billions of dollars in

20 public health benefits.

21 Moreover, these standards are based on

22 proven technologies that can help consumers

23 use less fuel to heat their homes, saving

24 time and money. EPA should finalize these

Page 43

1 standards without delay. Particulate

2 pollution is a serious public health problem

3 and substantial amounts of that particulate

4 pollution come from inefficient and outdated

5 wood stoves, furnaces and boilers.

6 Exposure to fine particulates can cause

7 premature death and harmful effects to the

8 cardiovascular system. People with asthma,

9 older adults, children and low-income

10 families are most vulnerable to fine

11 particulates.

12 Studies have also associated residential

13 wood smoke with increased risk of

14 cardiovascular mortality and increased

15 incidents of asthma and other respiratory

16 problems, especially in young children.

17 According to EPA, residential wood

18 combustion results in emissions of more than

19 345,000 tons of fine particulates throughout

20 the country each year, making residential

21 wood smoke the largest direct source of

22 anthropogenic particulate pollution in the

23 nation, and residential wood smoke

24 contributes an even larger share of

Page 44

1 particulate pollution in parts of the country

2 like the pacific northwest, midwest and

3 northeast, including a corridor of wintertime

4 PM pollution in parts of New Hampshire.

5 In addition to particulates, residential

6 wood smoke is a major source of other

7 dangerous pollutants including carbon

8 monoxide, volatile organic compounds and

9 toxic air pollutants like benzine and

10 formaldehyde.

11 Residential wood smoke accounts for

12 44 percent of the nations total emission of

13 polycyclic organic matter and is responsible

14 for a quarter of all cancer risks from small

15 sources of toxic air pollutants. The vital

16 importance of cleaner air for this community

17 and others across the nation is why I'm here

18 today to support the NSPS proposal, and it's

19 why EPA should finalize this important rule

20 without delay.

21 The proposed rule would reduce

22 particulate pollution across the nation by an

23 average of more than 4,800 tons every year

24 over the next eight years, taking into

Page 45

1 account only the emissions reductions

2 occurring in the first year of use for each

3 regulated device.

4 Because each of these devices has a

5 lifetime of twenty years or more and because

6 the cumulative number of devices subject to

7 these standards will grow year after year,

8 these emissions reductions will compound over

9 time. In total, more than one-and-a-half

10 million tons of PM will be reduced during the

11 lifetime the device is subject to these

12 emissions standards.

13 The human health benefits of this

14 proposal are profound. The emissions

15 reductions will result in up to 470 fewer

16 lives lost every year for the next eight

17 years. Proposed standards will also prevent

18 10,000 upper and lower respiratory symptoms

19 in children ages seven to fourteen and 15,000

20 asthma attacks in kids ages six to eighteen

21 every year.

22 EPA has found these health benefits will

23 have a value of up to four billion dollars

24 annually, almost 267 times the modest cost of
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

13 (Pages 46 to 49)

Page 46

1 the proposed rule. It has been over a

2 quarter of a century since the current US

3 standards for residential wood-burning

4 devices were adopted, even though the Clean

5 Air Act requires that EPA review these

6 standards and bring them up to date at least

7 once every eight years.

8 Not only are the current standards

9 obsolete, many categories of residential

10 wood-burning devices including furnaces and

11 outdoor wood boilers have no emission limits

12 at all under the current NSPS, yet

13 cost-effective clean technologies needed to

14 meet more protective standards are on shelves

15 and in use today.

16 Dozens of wood stoves and pellet stoves

17 already on the market are certified to meet

18 EPA's proposed step-two standards which are

19 seventy to 83 percent lower than the current

20 EPA standards for wood stoves.

21 Several wood boilers on the market have

22 emission rates significantly lower than those

23 in the proposed NSPS, and EPA has estimated

24 that over fifty wood boiler models produced

Page 47

1 in Europe where there are more rigorous

2 emission standards for wood boilers and a

3 robust market for these devices would comply

4 with the EPA-proposed standards.

5 Given the right regulatory signals,

6 American manufacturers are fully capable of

7 shifting the market towards devices that are

8 not only cleaner but more efficient, reducing

9 harmful emissions and saving consumers money.

10 Individuals, families, communities,

11 states, air agencies and health and

12 environmental groups have been calling on the

13 EPA for more than a decade to revise these

14 outdated standards that clearly endanger

15 public health.

16 Indeed, on August 28th, 2012 the

17 Environmental Counsel of the States issued a

18 resolution, calling on the EPA to act

19 immediately to update the NSPS establishing

20 health-protective emission limits for wood

21 combustion devices.

22 Although there are aspects of these

23 proposed emission standards that could be

24 improved, we appreciate that EPA has advanced

Page 48

1 a strong proposal and we urge the agency to

2 promptly finalize rigorous health-protective

3 standards for wood stoves, furnaces and

4 boilers. Thank you.

5 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any questions

6 for the speakers?

7 MR. WOOD: No.

8 MR. MURPHY: Okay, thank you very much.

9 The next speakers will be Claire Miller and

10 Jennifer Hedrick. Okay.

11 MS. MILLER: My name is Claire Miller,

12 C-L-A-I-R-E M-I-L-L-E-R. Thank you so much

13 for the opportunity to provide testimony and

14 address you this morning.

15 Toxics Action Center is a public health

16 and environmental organization that works

17 side by side with communities to clean up and

18 prevent pollution while developing long-time

19 citizen leaders for the environmental and

20 social change movements.

21 We've worked for many years with citizen

22 groups across New England to protect public

23 health and the environment by working to

24 clean up hazardous waste sites, curb

Page 49

1 pesticide spraying and reduce pollution from

2 dirty and dangerous waste, energy and

3 industrial facilities.

4 Speaking with you today to support the

5 proposed New Source Performance Standards for

6 residential wood heaters, in finalizing this

7 rule for residential wood heaters and the

8 like, you will be taking a major step toward

9 protecting public health and the environment.

10 As you know, most outdoor wood furnaces

11 employ very primitive combustion health

12 technology and, as a result, they emit dense

13 smoke that endangers the health of families.

14 The particles of wood smoke are so small that

15 closed doors and windows cannot stop them

16 from entering homes, even energy-efficient

17 weather-tight homes.

18 The most obvious impact of this is on

19 public health from poor air quality is

20 asthma. Asthma affects about twenty million

21 Americans, including 6.3 million children.

22 And, since 1980, the biggest growth in

23 asthmas cases has been children under five.

24 In recent years, there have been nearly two
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

14 (Pages 50 to 53)

Page 50

1 million emergency room visits and nearly half

2 a million hospitalizations due to asthma at a

3 cost of almost two billion-dollars and

4 causing fourteen million school days missed

5 each year.

6 Toxics Action Center serves as a 911

7 crisis hotline if you will for concerned

8 residents that are calling because they want

9 to try to clean up or prevent pollution in

10 their neighborhood. I get these phone calls

11 from worried parents, families, neighbors

12 when regulations are not strong enough and

13 pollution is impacting their lives.

14 And over my three years at Toxics Action

15 Center, I have seen an increase in the number

16 of phone calls specifically about residential

17 wood heaters, people who live next to these

18 types of devices and who feel trapped in

19 their homes because to go outside means to be

20 engulfed in choking smoke, mother and fathers

21 who think about moving because they know that

22 smoke is in their home and that their

23 children can't escape. These phone calls are

24 some of the worst and most depressing calls

Page 51

1 that I get. It pits neighbor against

2 neighbor and I look forward to the day when

3 wood stoves are no longer making families

4 sick. This rule would clean our air and

5 protect our communities, and Toxics Action

6 Center fully supports it.

7 Also, as someone who personally suffers

8 from asthma and who grew up with a wood stove

9 as the primary source of heat, I'm so very

10 excited. So thank you very much for your

11 time.

12 MR. MURPHY: Ms. Hedrick.

13 MS. HEDRICK: Good morning. Thank you

14 for the opportunity to comment on the

15 proposed NSPS for new residential wood

16 heaters. My name is Jennifer Hedrick,

17 H-E-D-R-I-C-K, and I am the Executive

18 Director of the Pellet Fuels Institute, also

19 know as PFI.

20 PFI is a North American trade

21 association based in Arlington, Virginia that

22 represents a range of contributors to the

23 pellet industry, including companies that

24 manufacture wood pellets and pellet

Page 52

1 manufacturing equipment, or provide other

2 products and services to the densified

3 biomass industry at large.

4 Many Americans, including so many here

5 in the Northeast, are over burdened by home

6 heating bills. The pellet industry provides

7 a sound alternative to fossil fuels and is an

8 affordable option for many Americans. The

9 pellet market has traditionally been more

10 stable and less subject to the volatile price

11 swings than fossil fuel-based energies such

12 as fuel oil and, as we've seen in recent

13 weeks, propane gas.

14 With well over one million homes

15 throughout America heating with pellets, it

16 is not only important that fuel continued to

17 be available for these appliances and new

18 ones that enter the marketplace but that it

19 is of a consistent quality, a pledge that our

20 members across the United States and Canada

21 make to their customers each day.

22 Over the last ten years, the Pellet

23 Fuels Institute has demonstrated its

24 commitment to consumers and industry by

Page 53

1 cultivating a strong fuel standards program,

2 a program both created and implemented by

3 PFI, a program developed through a consensus

4 process based on industry best practices that

5 is subject to continued vetting with that in

6 mind, a program that employs a third-party

7 certification process overseen by the

8 American Lumber Standard Committee, a program

9 that has the support of the major

10 manufacturers of pellets for the heating

11 market across the United States and, finally,

12 a program developed by the leading authority

13 on pellet fuel standards in North America,

14 the Pellet Fuels Institute.

15 Within PFI's standards program, pellets

16 are tested rigorously by auditing agencies

17 that themselves are subject to a strict

18 qualification process to participate in the

19 program. Once the auditing agency ensures

20 that the quality processes of the production

21 facility meet the specifications outlined in

22 the program and are therefore capable of

23 ensuring that the pellets produced will meet

24 the standards, they issue a quality mark that
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

15 (Pages 54 to 57)

Page 54

1 the pellet manufacturers may display on their

2 bags of fuel. This mark helps customers

3 identify pellets that have been subject to

4 this rigorous qualification procedure and the

5 ongoing testing process and further helps

6 them choose which pellets are most

7 appropriate for their stoves.

8 EPA's inclusion of the Pellet Fuels

9 Institute Fuel Standard in the proposed NSPS

10 demonstrates the understanding that it's not

11 simply the fuel or the stove but the

12 synergies of both components that contribute

13 to optimal heating performance in a

14 clean-burning, efficient and enjoyable

15 product for consumers.

16 In 2010 when PFI was told by EPA of its

17 intention to reference a pellet fuel standard

18 in the revised NSPS, we responded proactively

19 to EPA's request that parts of our program be

20 modified and strengthened to foster its

21 inclusion, taking great care to ensure that

22 the program's value to consumers remained

23 while not overburdening fuel manufacturers

24 and all the while fostering a spirit of

Page 55

1 cooperation between industry and government.

2 The Pellet Fuels Institute's standard as

3 designed underscores industry's commitment to

4 manufacturing products of consistent quality,

5 providing consumers with a reliable,

6 efficient, renewable and environmentally

7 sound fuel. We're pleased to see its

8 inclusion in the NSPS and that EPA sees not

9 just the value but the necessity of including

10 a standard developed by industry experts.

11 Again, on behalf of the manufacturers of

12 fuel across America, thank you for the

13 opportunity to speak today and we look

14 forward to submitting detailed comments.

15 Thank you.

16 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any questions?

17 MR. WOOD: No.

18 MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much. The

19 next speakers will be Frank Moore and

20 David Kuhfahl. Randy, we have one of the

21 presentations. Okay, we're all set.

22 MR. MOORE: Good morning. I am

23 Frank Moore, M-O-O-R-E, President and owner

24 of Hardy Manufacturing Company. We are a

Page 56

1 small, family-owned business that developed

2 and patented the outdoor hydronic heater in

3 the late seventies.

4 This product was developed because of

5 the very unstable price of fuel, oil and

6 propane performers and rural industrial

7 workers who had their own cord wood and were

8 just trying to make ends meet in a very

9 difficult economic time.

10 Little has changed in the unstable

11 energy prices. We were encouraged by

12 homeowner insurance companies who realized

13 the safety significance of home fires and

14 carbon monoxide poisoning, because our units

15 were located outdoors.

16 As a small business, we provide jobs for

17 about fifty people with payroll exceeding two

18 million dollars. We also have over 400

19 dealers nationally that depend on the sales

20 and service of this product.

21 Over the past few years, our sales and

22 payroll have been cut in half, partly because

23 of the economic economy but mainly of fear

24 that this type of heating appliance is too

Page 57

1 expensive and could be banned from use to

2 heat family's homes. We have been -- we have

3 been at the forefront in developing a

4 clean-burning outdoor wood-burning heater for

5 the past ten years.

6 We built a test laboratory, acquired the

7 approval for a test fuel required by EPA

8 280HH test standard, and spent well over a

9 million dollars on developing a clean-burning

10 outdoor hydronic heater. We have been driven

11 by three requirements; it must pass the test,

12 it must be durable and easy to operate and it

13 must be sellable to families who are being

14 pinched by the economy.

15 My company has worked in good faith with

16 EPA and the states to develop the test

17 protocol for outdoor hydronic heaters. The

18 OWHH caucus of HPBA formally requested EPA to

19 regulate our industry. In the meantime, we

20 agreed with EPA to do a voluntary program to

21 expedite the testing process.

22 Once a test protocol was established, we

23 were asked by EPA to do a seventy-percent

24 cleanup of the old-generation wood heaters.
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

16 (Pages 58 to 61)

Page 58

1 Once this was completed, a manufacturer

2 tested a unit that achieved ninety-percent

3 cleanup. The EPA quickly established a

4 ninety-percent cleanup for new-generation

5 units. Many states have adopted this into

6 their state environmental regs.

7 The shocker came on January the 4th of

8 this year when we learned that phase two for

9 EPA would be a 98-percent cleanup or point 06

10 pounds per million BTUs. They also altered

11 the test protocol to require seven-and-a-half

12 pounds per hour cap on any test run and

13 require us to test with both oak, crib wood

14 and cord wood which doubles the cost of

15 testing.

16 Now, just for general information, if

17 all goes well, the current test procedure

18 takes full week of around the clock testing

19 at a cost greater than $20,000.00. This

20 increased cost will be hard to justify.

21 We're in agreement with the

22 ninety-percent cleanup using existing 28WHH

23 test method that gained consensus from the

24 EPA, the states, EPA-certified test labs and

Page 59

1 the manufacturers. Where is the fairness in

2 invoking new procedures that have no

3 technical basis.

4 We are totally opposed to a phase-two

5 cleanup of 98 percent or .06 pounds per

6 million BTUs. Our company is experiencing a

7 spiral death, but the 98 percent would just

8 put -- push us off the cliff. The HPBA

9 contracted with NERA, an economic consulting

10 firm. It also does work for EPA.

11 The incremental cost effectiveness,

12 results show from uncontrolled hydronic

13 heaters to ninety percent cleanup the net

14 emission change is 3,262 tons or $11,300.00

15 per ton.

16 The incremental cost from the ninety

17 percent to the ninety-eight percent is only

18 an additional 182 tons and the social cost

19 increases to $222,200.00 per ton. This

20 increased cleanup is not cost-effective and

21 it will surely completely kill this industry.

22 If we are out of business, there is no

23 change out programs, only fixing and

24 repairing old generation units. The Small

Page 60

1 Business Regulatory Enforcement Fairness Act,

2 SBREFA, which I was a member, convened

3 several years ago.

4 The proposed regulations that we

5 considered in this process is completely

6 different from what EPA has proposed in the

7 NSPS. There is no indication that EPA will

8 reopen this process which in my -- in my

9 mind, makes a mockery out of the entire

10 SBREFA process.

11 The March issue of Popular Mechanics

12 boasts facts about how wood-burning

13 appliances are carbon neutral and do not have

14 a carbon footprint as does fuel oil, propane

15 heaters and even electricity uses

16 approximately seven percent coal for

17 production.

18 We ask EPA not to price us out of the

19 market and realize some rural families either

20 eat or have -- or have heat. We are for

21 regulation, just not being regulated out of

22 business. The 98-percent cleanup is a back

23 door ban on this product. The sensationalism

24 about how dirty outdoor hydronic heaters are

Page 61

1 is about old-generation units, not the

2 ninety-percent cleanup phase one units.

3 Thank you very much for your time.

4 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Mr. Kuhfahl.

5 MR. KUHFAHL: Yes. Thank you for the

6 opportunity to be heard. My name is

7 David Kuhfahl, I'm the President of

8 Hearthstone Stoves. Hearthstone was founded

9 in 1978 in Morrisville, Vermont and we still

10 manufacture there. We employ sixty full-time

11 employees with benefits.

12 Hearthstone only manufactures

13 EPA-certified cord wood stoves, inserts and

14 fireplaces and that's the topic I'm gonna

15 speak to. Cord wood heaters represent eighty

16 percent of our business. Is this working?

17 So what is our message, that wood heat can be

18 environmentally sound.

19 Why should we heat with wood? Trees are

20 an abundant renewable global resource. Other

21 bio fuels require high-energy processing,

22 transportation and packaging. Trees are the

23 most powerful concentrators of carbon on

24 earth, collecting up to 48 pounds of carbon
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Page 62

1 per year per tree. When a tree rots

2 naturally or burns, the carbon contained in

3 the wood is released back to the atmosphere.

4 Wood is a locally-harvested,

5 completely-renewable energy source that is

6 very abundant, leading to lower costs or free

7 with a very low carbon footprint. It is the

8 affordable heating source for a very

9 significant homes -- number of homes in North

10 America.

11 In 1988, NSPS and competitive market

12 pressures have kept this category from

13 improving for the last 26 years.

14 Hearthstone's longest-running model has been

15 recertified through four generations. Our

16 average-age certificate now is

17 eight-and-a-half years old.

18 Our production numbers are as good as

19 they were tested. Well, we were audited in

20 2012 -- 2012 by the EPA and asked to pull a

21 few stoves from stock for random-compliance

22 audits. The sample came back at 1.95 grams

23 an hour, versus its certificated result at

24 3.03. Annual sales for solid fuel products

Page 63

1 has not increased. It's been asserted that

2 wood stove sales have grown significantly in

3 the last ten years. Any real growth has been

4 in other generally lower-cost solid fuel

5 products.

6 Consumers want inexpensive, efficient

7 and easy to operate stoves. How can we be

8 sure? A group of manufacturers commissioned

9 The Stevenson Company to determine consumer

10 expectations and, more importantly, likely

11 behaviors. These complete results are in the

12 public record as comments to this rule.

13 So who are our customers? Seventy

14 percent -- seventy-seven percent of owners

15 and likely owners have a family income below

16 $75,000.00. What motivates these buyers?

17 With 610 participants nationwide, Stevenson's

18 survey showed sixty-three percent listed

19 price as first or second priority.

20 It's important to see that forty percent

21 put efficiency in the top two consideration

22 and over half the participants said

23 user-friendly controls was in their top

24 three. Technology was only considered top

Page 64

1 two for fifteen percent. Disturbingly, forty

2 percent of high-tech stove users, including

3 catalytic and other technologies, leave the

4 bypass open often or always. Seventy-four

5 percent operated it with it open at times.

6 Designing gadgets to make the stove pass

7 the test better may get a better lab result

8 but do not improve emissions in the real

9 world. There's no intrinsic motivation for a

10 consumer to perform any additional

11 interactions with their product.

12 The cost to small companies to achieve

13 these untested emissions standards will have

14 a detrimental effect on the jobs and air

15 quality. As a real example, in 2001

16 Hearthstone introduced a cast iron non-cat

17 stove. We had a bunch of innovations to

18 improve efficiency and hook customers with

19 cool features. Customers voted with their

20 wallets.

21 In 2012, we recertified it as a new

22 product, simpler, easy to -- and we replaced

23 it. We made a final pass in improving

24 components this year and the real cost to

Page 65

1 market in '01 was about $376,000.00 all the

2 way through the second generation and third

3 generation we've got about $877,000.00 into

4 this product.

5 Building cast iron products requires

6 patterns and a lot of investment up front and

7 once the pattern built -- is built, it will

8 last the lifetime of the stove. This is just

9 one example. Hearthstone sells products now

10 today under sixteen different certificates.

11 This rule is asking cord wood stoves to

12 carry much more than their burden. From

13 ninety -- from page 98 of the proposed rule,

14 EPA projected costs of certified cord wood

15 stoves at forty-seven percent of the total

16 while only giving eight percent of the

17 benefit.

18 So, in summary, burning locally-sourced

19 cord wood is the right thing to encourage.

20 We improve our certified stoves constantly

21 with costs between $550,000.00 and

22 $900,000.00 each under today's regulation,

23 not under the new proposal. Consumers want

24 simple. Complex stoves with multiple
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Page 66

1 controls and gadgets would be more expensive

2 and less likely to be operated correctly.

3 Increased costs reduces change out and

4 will not help clean up the air. Certified

5 cord wood stoves have been cleaned up from

6 the market pressures and competition between

7 us, and we have reached a point of

8 diminishing returns after 26 years of

9 improving our products. Thank you very much.

10 MR. MOORE: Thank you.

11 MR. MURPHY: Any questions for the

12 panel?

13 MR. WOOD: I had one question.

14 MR. KUHFAHL: Yes, sir.

15 MR. WOOD: You said something about your

16 average certificate is 8.5 years old.

17 MR. KUHFAHL: Yes.

18 MR. WOOD: Is that what you said?

19 MR. KUHFAHL: Eight point seven five.

20 MR. WOOD: I'm not quite sure I

21 understand that versus --

22 MR. KUHFAHL: Well, there was

23 some -- there was some comment that the

24 stoves had had -- that were -- that were

Page 67

1 certified in 1988 were, in fact, still in use

2 today. And my comment leads to the fact

3 that, no, actually we've -- we renovate them

4 and change them quite often and the average

5 of all sixteen today is 8.75 years.

6 MR. WOOD: Okay, thank you.

7 MR. KUHFAHL: Thank you.

8 MR. WOOD: I understand, thank you.

9 MR. MURPHY: The next speakers will be

10 Chelsea Perkins and Jeff Seyler.

11 MS. PERKINS: Chelsea Perkins,

12 C-H-E-L-S-E-A, P-E-R-K-I-N-S of The Clean Air

13 Council. Good morning. I am, as I just

14 said, Chelsea Perkins, a staff attorney for

15 The Clean Air Council. On behalf of the

16 Council and its members throughout

17 Pennsylvania, I thank you for this

18 opportunity to testify today.

19 Clean Air Council is a non-profit

20 environmental organization headquartered in

21 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. The council has

22 members throughout Pennsylvania, New Jersey

23 and Delaware. For more than forty years, the

24 Council has fought to improve air quality

Page 68

1 across the region. The Council's mission is

2 to protect everyone's right to breath clean

3 air. The health impacts of residential wood

4 burning are a serious threat to many

5 Pennsylvanians and compelled the Council to

6 travel from Pennsylvania to testify today.

7 The Council applauds EPA for moving

8 forward with this rule, which is a necessary

9 step in addressing the threats to human

10 health posed by wood smoke from residential

11 wood heaters. The existing standards issued

12 in 1988 are outdated and long overdue for an

13 update.

14 We are fully supportive of EPA's

15 proposal to set particulate matter emission

16 limits for wood heaters and those covered by

17 the existing regulations, specifically the

18 inclusion of pellet stoves, wood-fired

19 hydronic heaters, forced air furnaces,

20 masonry wood heaters and single-burn rate

21 stoves in the proposed rule signifies an

22 important step in reducing the

23 well-established adverse health affects

24 caused by residential wood heaters,

Page 69

1 particularly asthma which affects so many

2 individuals including children.

3 We strongly urge you, however, to

4 consider the following comments in drafting

5 the final rule so that public health is more

6 adequately protected from the harmful

7 components of wood stove than it would be

8 with the proposed standards.

9 Due to the growing prevalence of

10 hydronic heaters in Pennsylvania, also known

11 as indoor and outdoor wood-fired boilers, our

12 comments focus primarily on the proposed

13 standards for these heaters.

14 We strongly feel standards need to be in

15 place, due to the fact that these heaters are

16 currently not subject to EPA rules and yet

17 cause great suffering to nearby neighborhoods

18 and downwind residents, but the Council

19 opposes the proposed step one emissions level

20 of .32 pounds per million BTU of PM 2.5 for

21 the following reasons:

22 First, we feel that the emission limit

23 should be more stringent than the proposed

24 step one BTU measurement and cap for
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Page 70

1 individual test runs. Specifically, BTU

2 measurements have efficiency rating flaws

3 that fail to account for operational

4 variables. Furthermore, 7.5 grams per hour

5 cap for an individual test run is too high to

6 adequately protect those exposed to hydronic

7 heater smoke.

8 We feel EPA should adopt the approach

9 used in the state of Washington. This method

10 measures fine particle emissions in grams per

11 hour, setting the limit at 4.5 grams of fine

12 particles per hour for both the annual

13 average emission and the highest individual

14 test run emission.

15 Second, we feel that emissions limits

16 for hydronic heaters set forth in step one do

17 not reflect the best system of emission

18 reduction adequately demonstrated as required

19 by the Clean Air Act for updated NSPS.

20 The proposed step one emissions limit is

21 the phase two qualifying level of the

22 hydronic heater voluntary partnership

23 program. In the notice of proposed rule

24 making, EPA stated that there are currently

Page 71

1 36 commercially-available models of hydronic

2 heaters that have been qualified to meet the

3 phase two emissions level. The vast majority

4 of these commercial -- commercially-available

5 models are not, however, representative of

6 the best available technologies.

7 Specifically, commercially-available

8 hydronic heaters comply with

9 European -- European Union Emissions

10 Standards and that approximately 94 percent

11 lack PM 2.5, 92 percent lack carbon monoxide

12 and eighty-nine percent lack carcinogenic

13 polycyclic aromatic -- aromatic hydrocarbons

14 in the majority of the EPA-qualified phase

15 two hydronic heaters.

16 The presence of these

17 commercially-available hydronic heaters

18 demonstrates the step one emissions

19 limit -- that towards the step one emissions

20 limit, EPA is not fulfilling its duties under

21 the Clean Air Act to require best

22 adequately-demonstrated technology. This

23 proposed rule is a good step towards reducing

24 harmful emissions from residential wood

Page 72

1 heaters. Hydronic heaters have a growing

2 presence in Pennsylvania, posing a

3 significant threat to members of those

4 communities where they are most common.

5 Despite our overall support for EPA's

6 updated for wood heater standards, the Clean

7 Air Council strongly urges EPA to promulgate

8 a rule that more stringently limits harmful

9 pollutants from heavily-emitting hydronic

10 heaters and reflect the best available

11 technology.

12 The Council looks forward to providing

13 further written comments in the coming

14 months. Thank you.

15 MR. SEYLER: Good morning. Thank you

16 for taking the time for this hearing today.

17 My name is Jeff Seyler. I'm the CEO of the

18 American Lung Association of the Northeast.

19 My comments today are on behalf of the

20 National American Lung Association and we

21 will provide our complete comments in

22 writing. The American Lung Association

23 celebrates our 110th anniversary this year.

24 For half of our history, we have fought for

Page 73

1 healthy air. Healthy air is central to our

2 mission which is to save lives by improving

3 lung death and preventing lung disease.

4 We know that polluted air can shorten

5 lives and worsen lung diseases like asthma

6 and Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease and

7 can even cause lung cancer; that's why the

8 American Lung Association supports EPA's

9 proposed updates to the air emissions

10 requirements for new residential wood

11 heaters, but urges strengthening improvements

12 to them.

13 The updated standards are long overdue.

14 As you know, EPA last set standards for

15 wood-burning devices in 1988. Under the

16 Clean Air Act, EPA should have updated the

17 standards many times by now. In the past 25

18 years, the technology of wood-burning devices

19 has changed.

20 But, even more importantly, our

21 understanding from the emissions from those

22 devices has grown, so we are pleased that EPA

23 has finally proposed new standards. In 1988,

24 we were seven years away from the first of
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1 the landmark studies that demonstrated that

2 particles like those that make up wood smoke

3 can be deadly. Burning wood produces

4 emissions that are now widely recognized as

5 harmful to human health.

6 Emissions from wood smoke include

7 particulate matter, carbon monoxide, nitrogen

8 oxides, volatile organic compounds, hazardous

9 air pollutants and carcinogens. Many of

10 these emission can occur in both indoor and

11 outdoor environments. Wood smoke is also a

12 significant source of many of these

13 pollutants, especially primary particulate

14 matter.

15 The EPA recognized wood smoke as a major

16 source of particulate matter emission in the

17 2009 integrated science assessment for

18 particulate matter or PM ISA. Wood smoke

19 directly produces fine particulate matter and

20 contributes to local unhealthy air days, such

21 as those we're seeing in Salt Lake City, Utah

22 now. Because of their size, wood smoke

23 particles can be transported hundreds of

24 miles from the source. The EPA concluded in

Page 75

1 the PM ISA that find particulate matter

2 causes premature death and cardiovascular

3 disease and likely causes respiratory harm.

4 The EPA recognized studies that

5 specifically linked wood smoke with an

6 increased risk of cardiovascular mortality as

7 well as increased emergency department visits

8 from respiratory disease and cardiovascular

9 disease.

10 Unfortunately, particulate matter is

11 just one of the harmful air pollutants

12 emitted in the smoke from burning wood.

13 These long out-of-date standards mean that

14 homeowners install thousands of new

15 wood-burning boilers, furnaces and stoves

16 each year that produce far more dangerous air

17 pollution than modern, state of the art clean

18 air units would.

19 Given the demonstrated harm, the Lung

20 Association urges EPA to reduce the phase-in

21 time for the stronger requirements. Five

22 years is two years longer than other

23 industries have had to meet public health

24 protective standards. The technology to meet

Page 76

1 stronger standards has been widely used in

2 Europe for years. Each year EPA allows the

3 industry to delay implementing the stronger

4 standards is another year that more people

5 will purchase and install devices that will

6 emit too much pollution for decades to come.

7 The Lung Association also urges the EPA

8 to include emission limits on fireplaces in

9 the final standards. The proposed standards

10 apply to all residential wood-burning devices

11 except new -- new indoor fireplaces, we

12 believe a significant omission.

13 Fireplaces are installed in new and

14 remodeled homes throughout the nation. Once

15 installed, they will emit unlimited

16 pollutants in every location for the lifetime

17 of the house which can be for generations in

18 the future. The EPA should also consider the

19 impact on indoor air quality and the decision

20 on fireplaces.

21 The Yale childhood asthma study of

22 indoor air quality in homes in Connecticut

23 and Virginia found that homes with fireplaces

24 had an average nitrogen oxides concentrations

Page 77

1 that were higher than are considered safe.

2 Each hour of fireplace use increased cough

3 and sore throat in these non-smoking mothers.

4 Such pollution can harm anyone, even healthy

5 adults.

6 But, for many, pollution can threaten

7 their lives and leave them with long-term

8 consequences. Childrens and teens, older

9 adults, people who have chronic lung diseases

10 such as asthma, those who have cardiovascular

11 disease and diabetes, and those with low

12 incomes all are more vulnerable.

13 We need every step we can take to

14 provide cleaner, healthier air for all of

15 them. The American Lung Association calls on

16 the EPA to -- swiftly to adopt rigorous

17 health-protective standards for all classes

18 of residential wood heaters using the best

19 emission reduction systems.

20 Until that happens, these devices will

21 continue to be built and installed,

22 compounding the outdoor problem and causing

23 people to mistakenly bring harmful sources of

24 pollution directly into their homes. That
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1 reality will make it even harder to protect

2 the health of the public. Now is the time

3 for EPA to act, thank you.

4 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any questions

5 from the panel?

6 MR. WOOD: No.

7 MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much. The

8 next speakers will be Patricia Aho and

9 Yvonne Nanasi.

10 MS. AHO: Good morning. I am

11 Commissioner Patricia Aho. My last name is

12 spelled A-H-O and I am the Commissioner of

13 the Maine Department of Environmental

14 Protection.

15 Thank you very much for the opportunity

16 to provide comments on the proposed

17 residential wood heater New Source

18 Performance Standards. The people of Maine

19 take pride in and value that our national

20 ambient air quality standards are met on all

21 cases.

22 We appreciate the efforts, both large

23 and small, to protect this vital national

24 resource for our state as well as for

Page 79

1 everyone. Maine supports regulations that

2 result in more efficient and

3 environmentally-beneficial wood burning

4 devices, and we agree with the draft rules

5 goals to reduce the amount of wood smoke in

6 our air.

7 However, as proposed, the rule creates a

8 number of concerns for our state, our forest

9 products industry, our related manufacturers

10 and the range of small businesses who exist

11 to meet the needs related to the residential

12 wood-burning in our predominantly rural

13 state.

14 It is these consequences of the

15 regulation as proposed which I bring to your

16 attention today and I will only brief outline

17 our top concerns and will be providing our

18 written comments for the record at a later

19 time.

20 First and foremost, this proposal

21 restricts consumer options. We emphatically

22 defend homeowner's rights to choices by which

23 to improve efficiency and environmental

24 performance of their home-heating devices.

Page 80

1 The proposed standards do not appropriately

2 consider the differences between catalytic

3 and non-catalytic wood stoves either in

4 design or actual operation, and let me

5 underscore again the word actual operation.

6 A non-catalyst stove is more

7 straightforward to operate and requires less

8 maintenance, making it a much more attractive

9 and viable option for many homeowners. New

10 non-catalytic wood stoves offer very

11 efficient, easy to operate and affordable

12 options while still providing environmental

13 benefits.

14 The state of Maine, as you may be aware,

15 is demographically the oldest state in the

16 country and with most of our seniors on fixed

17 income, it is significant that we need to

18 look at how a user of a wood-burning stove is

19 able to use that stove. Ease of operation

20 and affordability are important factors.

21 As you've heard this morning, it is the

22 behavior of the operator of the device as

23 well as the quality of the fuel which are

24 much more important than the actual

Page 81

1 technology related in influencing the final

2 emissions from that unit. Regulations which

3 discourage easier to use technology will

4 ultimately be counter-productive to the

5 pursuit of reduced air emissions which is

6 what we are all striving for.

7 Secondly, another consequence of this

8 proposal is the creation of disincentives for

9 those considering the replacement of their

10 current wood stoves and furnaces with more

11 efficient devices. As you have seen, data

12 shows that pollution from old, inefficient

13 wood stoves is a very significant source of

14 particulate matter pollution.

15 If this regulation forces the market to

16 shift further to catalyst-equipped wood

17 stoves as is expected, consumers will be

18 reluctant to replace older units with newer

19 units because catalytic stoves are more

20 expensive to purchase and maintain.

21 The catalysts must be replaced

22 throughout the lifespan of the device and

23 further more if those catalysts are not

24 maintained and replaced as directed by the
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1 manufacturer, pollution can be just as bad or

2 perhaps even worse than from the older stove

3 which it was hopeful to replace.

4 Additionally to our demographics

5 relating to the age of our population, Maine

6 also has some of the oldest housing stock in

7 the country, so some of our homes may not

8 actually be able to upgrade at all, due to

9 the specific installation requirements of

10 catalyst stoves, relating to the size, the

11 dimensions and the configuration of the

12 chimney and the interior space of these

13 homes.

14 Indeed, this proposal actually creates a

15 significant market disadvantage for persons

16 to upgrade because of those physical

17 limitations of the homes, the increased cost

18 of installations of new units, as well as the

19 increased difficulty of operation of certain

20 types of wood-burning devices.

21 We strongly support incentives to

22 encourage consumers with old, inefficient

23 stoves to replace those stoves with newer,

24 more modern technology. Funding

Page 83

1 opportunities need to be developed to provide

2 assistance and incentives for the older wood

3 stove change out programs, and this approach

4 obviously alleviates concerns about marketing

5 and resale of secondhand, non-certified

6 wood-burning units.

7 Another consequence that I would like to

8 mention which has not been mentioned this day

9 as well is that from our analysis of the

10 proposal, it would appear that it indicates

11 that operation of a residential wood-burning

12 unit, other than as specified in the owner's

13 manual, including the types of fuel specified

14 becomes a violation of federal law.

15 Homeowners who burn anything other than

16 dry wood as specified in those owner's

17 manual, apparently will now be committing a

18 federal offense. This is a very harsh

19 standard established with unrealistic

20 expectations of compliance and enforcement.

21 Maine disagrees with the severity of

22 this and would specifically request EPA to

23 reconsider this requirement in your proposal.

24 I will be brief because I -- I appreciate the

Page 84

1 extra time you are affording me. This

2 proposal requires manufacturers to upgrade

3 their designs and corresponding production

4 systems, as you have heard, at significant

5 cost based on technology and testing methods

6 which have yet to be finalized.

7 As a regulatory agency myself, it is

8 incumbent upon all regulatory agencies to

9 provide fair and predictable and certain

10 regulations and not a proposal that says

11 we'll let you know what the technology is

12 sometime later, so we would ask you to

13 determine what that technology is that will

14 be used by manufacturers to incorporate into

15 their systems.

16 And, finally, I would like to just one

17 more time underscore our concerns with the

18 proposed regulation because it goes well

19 beyond manufacturers and it reaches into our

20 state: a significant number of small

21 businesses, our retailers of these units, the

22 installers, the fabricators who you have not

23 heard from yet, our forest products industry

24 which provide the fuel for the units, and the

Page 85

1 suppliers of those wood pellets as well as

2 cord wood as well.

3 Maine strongly encourages EPA to further

4 refine this regulation to include

5 reasonableness, pragmatism and common sense

6 so that newer, cleaner wood stoves are a

7 benefit to the consumer with no compromise in

8 heating ability, no increase in the

9 difficulty of operation, the installation or

10 the maintenance of those units so that they

11 are not prohibitively expensive and so that

12 actual health benefits are realized.

13 Thank you for the opportunity. I

14 welcome any questions that you may have and

15 we will be providing significant comments for

16 the record. Thank you.

17 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Commissioner.

18 MR. WOOD: Jim, I have one quick

19 question, and I'm trying to write notes as

20 well as I can. You said something about the

21 resale of the non-certified units. I didn't

22 hear the verb before that.

23 MS. AHO: What we think is absolutely

24 important is a -- a change out program in
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Page 86

1 order -- and to provide financial incentives

2 for change out programs so that people remove

3 those older stoves out of operation, rather

4 than just a rebate program.

5 Rebate programs are great but it doesn't

6 necessarily actually provide an incentive for

7 the additional behavior which you want which

8 is to remove the older stove entirely from

9 its use.

10 MR. WOOD: I understand that but -- but

11 were you suggesting that we should not allow

12 the resale of uncertified --

13 MS. AHO: I don't remember speaking to

14 the resale at all in my testimony.

15 MR. WOOD: Okay, thanks. I'll -- I'll

16 read it later. Thank you.

17 MS. AHO: Thank you.

18 MS. NANASI: Good morning. My name is

19 Yvonne Nanasi, Y-V-O-N-N-E, N-A-N-A-S-I. I'm

20 a resident of Bedford, New Hampshire and the

21 New Hampshire Field Manager for Moms Clean

22 Air Force. Moms Clean Air Force is dedicated

23 to strengthening and protecting the Clean Air

24 Act. We have 1,600 members in New Hampshire.

Page 87

1 I come before you today to urge the EPA

2 to swiftly adopt the New Source Performance

3 Standards for wood heaters. Many of us in

4 New Hampshire burn wood to heat our homes

5 because wood is inexpensive and plentiful,

6 however, the emissions from our wood-burning

7 boilers, furnaces and stoves include

8 particulate matter, carbon monoxide, nitrogen

9 oxide, hazardous air pollutants and

10 carcinogens.

11 Wood combustion devices contribute at

12 least 25 percent of wintertime particulate

13 pollution in parts of New Hampshire,

14 according to our department of environmental

15 services air resources division. These

16 emissions are now known to harm our lungs and

17 especially those of our children.

18 Not only are children who are exposed to

19 wood smoke more likely to develop asthma, but

20 the symptoms of those who already have asthma

21 become worse when they're exposed to wood

22 smoke. In many New Hampshire communities,

23 children with asthma cannot play outside many

24 days and wood smoke is the reason.

Page 88

1 As a volunteer, I serve as the director

2 of Trout Unlimited's New Hampshire kids trout

3 camp, a five-day program held annually to

4 teach youth the art and science of fly

5 fishing. In each of the past three years, at

6 least seven out of ten kids attending camp

7 are required to carry their -- their

8 inhalers. This is a new development.

9 In the past, one, two maybe inhalers I

10 would see a summer, but this is but one small

11 example of the growing prevalence of asthma

12 among our children that we must take action

13 to prevent and these standards are a step in

14 that direction.

15 Fortunately, new technologies are

16 available that not only significantly reduce

17 emissions from wood stoves, furnaces and

18 boilers but also enable homeowners to heat

19 their homes using less wood, saving families

20 time and money. Health-protective emissions

21 standards would broaden the market for these

22 technologies and spur even more innovation.

23 We know the current EPA standards are

24 over 25 years old, meaning many homeowners

Page 89

1 have installed thousands of new wood-burning

2 boilers and furnaces that produce far more

3 dangerous air pollution than cleaner units.

4 It's time to change.

5 The proposed standards would cut

6 pollution from these devices by eighty

7 percent and set the first nationwide limits

8 on harmful pollution from wood-burning

9 boilers. These standards are based on

10 improved technologies in use today,

11 especially in European countries.

12 Manufacturers can and should include

13 this technology in products that homeowners

14 are buying. Those -- these proposed

15 standards will make that happen sooner rather

16 than later so, in addition to the health

17 benefits, the new standards will make our

18 wood heaters more efficient than other ones.

19 We encourage you to swiftly adopt these new

20 standards. Thank you.

21 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any additional

22 questions?

23 MR. WOOD: No.

24 MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much. Our
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1 next speakers will be Bob Feen and

2 John Crouch. Mr. Feen, go ahead. You can

3 just move that mic over a little.

4 MR. FEEN: My name is Bob Feen. It's

5 spelled F like Frank, E-E-N like Nancy. I

6 own Feen's Country Living in Fitchburg,

7 Massachusetts and I've been running that

8 store since 1975. We sell mostly wood

9 stoves, hearth stoves, yodels, mold castings,

10 Regencies, SBI, FPI units, a lot of

11 wood-burning stoves.

12 We have ten people that work with us.

13 They are full time and they have full-time

14 benefits. My dear friends from the EPA, you

15 may or may not be aware that this is Boston

16 and it's the backyard of a delightful

17 historian, Doris Kearns Goodwin.

18 A recent book that she came out with,

19 she talks about William Howard Taft, a

20 President who hated to give speeches and

21 every time he left the podium, he felt

22 remorse that what was in his head was never

23 conveyed. And, more so, after listening to

24 the wonderful testimonies, both pro and con,

Page 91

1 for the regulations as proposed, I'm sure I'm

2 gonna leave here with a lot of things I wish

3 I had said.

4 But, at any rate, I'll begin by saying

5 that forty years ago, things were different

6 than they are today but not so different.

7 The Arab oil embargo shocked us into a fit of

8 disbelief that this almighty nation could be

9 held hostage by a few sheiks in some far,

10 distant lands.

11 We didn't know who or where these sheiks

12 were from or what their motives were but they

13 certainly grabbed our attention. Lines at

14 gas stations were long, home heating old was

15 not scarce -- was scarce and it doubled and

16 tripled in price.

17 Resourceful Americans that we are, we

18 became fighting mad and fought back.

19 Smaller, more efficient cars -- remember the

20 kay car, although those were short-lived

21 responses to the Mideast attack on our way of

22 life. Another response to that attack was

23 turning to our forefathers, the way of

24 heating their homes and that was returning to

Page 92

1 a renewable heat source that we all know is

2 the omnipresent, sustainable supply of cord

3 wood.

4 In these early days, young moms, dads

5 and kids cut, chopped and split wood and

6 enjoyed the independence and sustainability

7 of their little smoky wood stove, but we knew

8 in those days that the little smoky stove had

9 to be improved.

10 It was the likes of Dr. Jay Shelton

11 years ago who established an institute that

12 discovered ways to cut the smoke and cut

13 pollution. He did a whale of a job in

14 preparing the way for the new ADA at that

15 time, EPA regs.

16 At that time, little stove shops like

17 mine grew and grew all over the country.

18 People became attached to their stoves and,

19 unlike the demise of the little cars, they

20 continue today to this day to heat their

21 homes with wood.

22 Like most New England dealers, the

23 preponderance of sales of mine are cast iron

24 and they're used to offset the main source of

Page 93

1 heating which is imported oil. Today's

2 prices, about $1,100.00 for a 275-gallon fill

3 up of oil.

4 Our heating season is six months of the

5 year, and it's easy to see how reliant New

6 Englander's are upon their cherished wood

7 stoves. In addition to saving money, our

8 stoves reduce the reliance upon foreign oil

9 and utilize local, renewable resources.

10 Our industry, I am proud to say, in the

11 state of Massachusetts -- in the state of

12 Massachusetts, we are definitely pro-EPA. We

13 understand the imperative of striving toward

14 a zero carbon footprint.

15 A few blocks from where you're sitting

16 resides a native son who last week in

17 Indonesia proposed that the United States of

18 America lead the world of nations in cleaning

19 up the planet of harmful carbon emissions.

20 John Kerry came -- came -- came this

21 close to endorsing a ban in the Keystone

22 Pipeline. The Patrick administration,

23 through the Mass Clean Energy Program,

24 currently offers its citizens up to $2,000.00
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HEARING February 26, 2014

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25 (Pages 94 to 97)

Page 94

1 to change out noncompliant stoves to today's

2 cleaner-burning models. In changing those

3 stoves out, pictures must be taken of the

4 existing stoves as they're being burned and

5 they must be brought to recycling plants and

6 put out of commission totally.

7 This is a step in the right direction.

8 We do have to get the six to seven million

9 noncompliant stoves out of circulation. We

10 understand full well the need for clean

11 energy and some of these noncompliant stoves

12 are really a black eye to our business.

13 I ask that the EPA negotiate downwards

14 to a number that our non-cat allies can

15 realistically meet. We are only a few grams

16 away. When we consider that wood burning is

17 more of an art form than a science in the

18 real world of cleaner burning, we depend upon

19 educators, like small business owners like

20 ourselves and the veteran dealers to educate

21 the public on the proper burning of wood.

22 We advocate smaller and insulated

23 chimneys. We advocate proper species of

24 wood, correct splitting of this wood. These

Page 95

1 issues, in my mind, are more important than

2 the few grams that separate the proposed regs

3 from the dismissal of great manufacturers

4 from our industry, that's what the current

5 regs are aimed to do.

6 The regs should be a starting point as

7 they were in 1988. Our industry has

8 demonstrated a willingness to commit

9 reasonable resources to the reduction of

10 emissions when given a chance.

11 In closing, I would like to relay a

12 response to a question asked by a customer of

13 mine. He asked if EPA was asking the

14 industry to design a wood stove that would be

15 a clean air machine but also, secondarily,

16 heat our homes. This is not a bad idea.

17 Again, MIT is just across the river. Thank

18 you.

19 MR. MURPHY: Thank you.

20 MR. CROUCH: I am John Crouch, Director

21 of Public Affairs for the Hearth, Patio &

22 Barbecue Association (HPBA) and I'm based in

23 Sacramento, California where I focus on wood

24 stove rules and regulations in both the U.S.

Page 96

1 and Canada. As you know, HPBA supports

2 revisions to the NSPS for wood heaters and

3 understands the need to include other

4 wood-heating appliances.

5 We certainly appreciate the support EPA

6 has provided for change outs, a concept which

7 we pioneered shortly after the first NSPS was

8 published. HPBA and EPA worked together to

9 help low-income, rural families in Libby,

10 Montana change out over 1,000 old,

11 uncertified wood stoves and, together, we

12 proved that existing certified stoves can

13 make a tremendous difference in both the

14 ambient air and the indoor air quality of

15 family -- families' homes.

16 We believe that on a national level, the

17 major source of wood smoke is existing older,

18 uncertified wood stoves. As you know, we

19 believe there are at least six million

20 uncertified, freestanding stoves alone, not

21 counting the millions of airtight fireplace

22 inserts. We are concerned that many of the

23 almost 100 ideas proposed in this package

24 will not necessarily improve on existing EPA

Page 97

1 stoves and we are convinced that they will

2 substantially add to the cost of new stoves.

3 The cumulative impact of even half of

4 these proposed changes is massive and will

5 significantly increase the cost of new

6 appliances. HPBA categorically rejects the

7 assertion that these changes have -- will

8 have only modest cost impact on wood stoves,

9 furnaces, masonry heaters and hydronic

10 heaters and trivial impacts on pellet stoves.

11 Others will speak to this in more

12 detail, but we see many, many cost impacts,

13 especially on very small-volume models that

14 EPA has ignored in this proposal. We are

15 disappointed that EPA has proposed so many

16 changes to the test method with absolutely no

17 assurance that these changes will actually

18 improve field performance.

19 I hope you will remember that our

20 manufacturers will build to the test,

21 including the as yet-uncompleted cordwood

22 test method. If EPA makes a mistake or has

23 made a mistake and it turns out that

24 something in the new test process create
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HEARING February 26, 2014

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26 (Pages 98 to 101)

Page 98

1 units which are less effective or efficient

2 in the real world, what is plan B? Will you

3 re-open rule making to fix that problem?

4 Most of these proposed changes have no

5 empirical data to support them. No one knows

6 for certain how they will affect the field

7 performance of these new stoves. Many of

8 these ideas are based on hope and not data.

9 Hope is not a strategy. My understanding of

10 the Clean Air Act is that an NSPS is built on

11 data, not hope.

12 We are also extremely disappointed that

13 EPA has not recognized the work that hydronic

14 heater manufacturers have done to meet the

15 voluntary program targets by not allowing

16 some continued production of these qualified

17 units. These companies have made tremendous

18 gains in emission improvements at great

19 expense.

20 EPA could recognize these gains by

21 granting some type of certification to these

22 qualified units. By far the greatest

23 uncertainty in the entire proposal was with

24 regards to wood furnaces. The proposal

Page 99

1 suggests a final decision upon promulgation,

2 but does not allow for certification prior to

3 that, and then requires instant certification

4 sixty days after promulgation or perhaps

5 suggests a one-year extension.

6 Now, current certification of wood

7 stoves, to a method OECA has twenty years of

8 experience with, is taking thirty to

9 sixty-plus days. The uncertainty created by

10 the manner in which this issue was handled in

11 the rule absolutely jeopardizes these small

12 companies' existence.

13 Finally, we are left with a sense that

14 we all need to accelerate change outs, since

15 the new units contemplated in five to six

16 years will certainly cost more, and may or

17 may not work as well as existing EPA units.

18 If these proposals increase the costs of

19 wood stoves and pellet stoves as we think

20 they will and therefore reduce change outs,

21 they will delay the ambient air improvements

22 offered by the existing EPA-certified stoves.

23 That would be the greatest irony of all and

24 an unfortunate result of all the work that

Page 100

1 both EPA and our industry have invested in

2 this proposed update to the original NSPS.

3 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Feen. Any

4 questions for the panel? Okay, thank you

5 very much. The next speakers will be

6 Calvin Haggard and Steve Vogelzang.

7 MR. HAGGARD: Good morning. Thank you

8 for the opportunity to speak to you all this

9 morning. My name is Calvin Haggard, I'm the

10 CEO of United States Stove Company. We're

11 based in South Pittsburg, Tennessee. We have

12 additional locations in Eugene, Oregon and

13 also Holland, Michigan.

14 We are the oldest manufacturer of wood

15 stoves in America. Today, I want to talk to

16 you about the economic impact that we see

17 that will happen with these new regulations.

18 First off, the industry.

19 Well, let me tell you about myself.

20 I've been in the wood stove and pellet stove

21 business for over thirty-five years, so I

22 have a little knowledge. I was in the

23 business in 1988 and I saw what happened back

24 then. Our wood stove and pellet stove

Page 101

1 industry right now in America is

2 approximately 200 million dollars. The

3 largest segment of that category of that

4 business is in affordable heating and

5 affordable heating is into the low-income

6 people and rural America.

7 What's gonna happen? What's the effect

8 if these people cannot get affordable heat?

9 How are they gonna heat their homes? And

10 history told us back in 1988 and '89, most of

11 the wood stove manufacturers went out of

12 business.

13 Today, we estimate there's approximately

14 fifty significant manufacturers of wood

15 stoves and pellet stoves, twenty of them

16 being American companies. We estimate,

17 because of these new regulations in the

18 formats that you have today, approximately

19 the survival rate will be twenty-five to

20 fifty percent.

21 That will leave only five to ten

22 American stove companies and the loss of a

23 lot of American jobs. Ninety-nine percent of

24 our industry are small businesses. Again, we
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HEARING February 26, 2014

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27 (Pages 102 to 105)

Page 102

1 look at history and, with these new

2 regulations in the format it is today, we

3 anticipate a dramatic decrease in

4 manufacturers, again a loss of American jobs.

5 I point to the SBA. I look at

6 your -- the SBA did not endorse your plan and

7 I think they see or foresee the affect, the

8 dramatic affect of the wood stove and the

9 pellet stove business because of the new

10 regulations in the format it is today.

11 American jobs will be lost, American lives

12 will be affected.

13 What's gonna be other factors in the

14 manufacturing process? Increased cost of

15 testing, increased cost of research and

16 development, increased cost of marketing cost

17 to the American public. Those costs will be

18 passed on to the American retailers who sell

19 this product.

20 In a retail pyramid, as you increase the

21 price of a product, the sales of the product

22 decreases. When you look at the demographics

23 of a person who needs an affordable wood

24 stove, once again you are affecting

Page 103

1 low-income customers and rural America. Are

2 we gonna get to the point that the

3 only -- only a few people in America are

4 gonna be able to afford a wood stove? I hope

5 not.

6 In 1989, the American public, the

7 American consumer, felt sticker shock. If

8 these regulations are done in the format they

9 are today, again we will feel sticker shock

10 and our industry will decline. The

11 development of the consumer base that needs

12 and wants affordable heating again is a very

13 large, important part, our segment of the

14 industry.

15 In passing these regulations, it will

16 diminish any affordable heating available to

17 this segment of the heating population.

18 Again, the largest portion of our business is

19 low-income families and rural America.

20 Please note that even the OMB recognizes

21 the dramatic affect this plan would have on

22 the American consumer. The American wood

23 stove and pellet stove manufacturers in

24 America, they would not endorse this plan.

Page 104

1 In America, people today are fighting the

2 increased cost of housing, increased cost of

3 healthcare, the increased cost of putting

4 food on their family's table.

5 We would strongly suggest please take a

6 look at the regulations you have in today and

7 let's work together to find a solution

8 together where we can still bring to America

9 affordable heating and keep American

10 manufacturers alive and well and American

11 workers working.

12 These new regulations will disengage

13 again the American heating industry, the

14 American manufacturers of wood stoves and

15 pellet appliances, American retailers who

16 sell our heating products and, most

17 importantly, we'll disengage the American

18 consumer from affordable heating appliances.

19 I thank you for your time this morning.

20 MR. VOGELZANG: My name is

21 Steve Vogelzang, that's V-O-G-E-L-Z-A-N-G.

22 Vogelzang International is a company now part

23 of United States Stove. Dr. Simcox,

24 Mr. Green, Mr. Wood, thank you for your

Page 105

1 attention this morning. I've been in the

2 hearth industry for over 35 years. I worked

3 with the EPA back in 1988 and I'd like to

4 focus on the single-burn rate stove and

5 furnace this morning.

6 You've heard a lot of other comments

7 regarding the certified stoves and hydronics

8 but my background is also in the single-burn

9 rate stove. Back in 1988, there was a need

10 for this kind of stove. There is a need for

11 this stove today. Back then, we developed

12 and patented a damp collar that allowed every

13 single-rate freestanding stove to be in

14 compliance with method 28A.

15 If I leave you with one thing this

16 morning, I'd like to emphasize and underscore

17 that there is still a need for stoves that go

18 into cabins, workshops, other ancillary

19 buildings where this stove is applicable.

20 In my hand, I have a letter from a World

21 War II veteran by the name of

22 Stanley Volnaka (phonetic). Stanley wrote me

23 a letter and said would you be willing to

24 donate a stove to me, a Purple Heart veteran.
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HEARING February 26, 2014

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28 (Pages 106 to 109)

Page 106

1 I replied by saying I would perhaps consider

2 that but I'd have to know more about you.

3 One of his fellow soldiers testified

4 that this man carried a fifty-pound

5 water-cooled machine gun throughout Europe in

6 World War II until part of his leg was blown

7 off by an 88-millimeter German round.

8 I met Stanley. He has become a friend

9 of mine. He's still alive. He's 94, he's

10 blind. He requires 24-hour care. We donated

11 a stove to Stanley for his home because he

12 could not afford anything else.

13 A couple of years ago, there was footage

14 in Grand Rapids, Michigan about the homeless

15 in the city that actually filmed where the

16 homeless camp was in the city of Grand Rapids

17 and, wouldn't you know, they were warming

18 themselves with a single-burn rate stove.

19 We were approached by a faith-based

20 group to donate fifty stoves to the poorest

21 part of Appalachia, West Virginia. We

22 donated those stoves because the people there

23 could not afford to buy any other kind of

24 appliance. Here's my point again, for fear

Page 107

1 of repetition, there is a need for these

2 types of stoves and we ask the EPA to work

3 with us either in maintaining the current

4 28A standard or helping us revise it so that

5 it's tenable for all manufacturers that

6 produce this kind of stove.

7 It seems to me that the part of wisdom

8 is to not say to the consumer we are going to

9 remove America's most affordable wood stove

10 from the market. The part of wisdom, it

11 seems to me, is to find out a way to continue

12 to supply this kind of stove so that all

13 parties are served, those of the poor, the

14 underprivileged, those disenfranchised in our

15 society so that they, too, have a way to buy

16 a wood stove.

17 I was there in 1988. I'm here 25 years

18 later to make the same proposal. Thank you

19 for your time and attention.

20 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any questions

21 from the panel? Thank you. The next

22 speakers will be Paul Williams and

23 John Ackerly. Mr. Williams.

24 MR. WILLIAMS: Good morning. I am

Page 108

1 Paul Williams with United States Stove

2 Company. I've been in this industry a long

3 time and I've seen the results of the first

4 original NSPS, and one of the things that hit

5 me this morning is how we've had some people

6 promote -- we're in a federal building,

7 federal tax dollars, we're promoting foreign

8 technology's product. As an American company

9 and a small business, we take sort of a slap

10 in the face with that, but we'll go with

11 where we are today.

12 To begin with, I want to start with I

13 don't think we fully understand exactly what

14 we're building and what we're doing. One of

15 the things that hasn't been mentioned here is

16 that we're actually asking families to build

17 a fire in their home.

18 Not only are we worried about the

19 emissions but we're also worried about

20 combustibles, the safety aspects of it when

21 we're asking them to build a fire in their

22 home, a home where their family plays, prays

23 and sleeps. We build -- we build products

24 where a grandfather doesn't hesitate to warm

Page 109

1 his home while he watches his little

2 granddaughter learn to read. I'm a

3 grandfather and I know how important it is to

4 see your family grow up. I know anybody here

5 would have the same feelings. And I say that

6 because I think we're all concerned over our

7 families and our homes, not only emissions

8 but everything else that we put out.

9 United States Stove Company takes great

10 pride in what we produce and is one of the

11 oldest companies in the county. We've been

12 building Americans and keeping Americans'

13 families' homes warm since 1869. In the face

14 of tightened economies and rising heating

15 costs, more Americans turn to less costly

16 heat sources to heat these homes, especially

17 in the poor areas that Mr. Vogelzang

18 mentioned.

19 Affordable options must be made

20 available, and in this proposal it threatens

21 not only the existence of some of these

22 products but also the companies that produce

23 them, especially given the extremely tight,

24 lower numbers and the timeframe that we have
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HEARING February 26, 2014

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29 (Pages 110 to 113)

Page 110

1 to work with these. At retail, because

2 that's my forte, we have seen price

3 elasticity drastically affect sales.

4 Consumers look at it if they can't get a

5 payback within two years, they will just not

6 do it. They'll do something else.

7 They will keep what they have for

8 convenience, cut expenses elsewhere like in

9 medications, kids' sporting events and extra

10 family activities, this proposal expects warm

11 air furnaces, which is what we produce a lot

12 of, to be acceptable by the struggling

13 American family, when in this proposal it

14 mentions the price will jump from $912.00 to

15 over $4,000.00.

16 We estimate that 20,000 units that are

17 normally sold in an annual year will be

18 dropped to 7,000 or fewer, again cutting

19 available resources we have to build and

20 innovate the next generation of stoves. To

21 add insult to injury, you ask that furnaces

22 have no ability to sell at retail after

23 promulgation and allowing wood stoves only

24 six months. You would ask that our retail

Page 111

1 partners stop buying products in the middle

2 of the winter if we expect early 2015

3 promulgation, so you would ask that our

4 retail partners stop buying products in the

5 middle of the winter if we expect that, and

6 expect them to closeout their inventory

7 and -- and make sure that they sell their

8 inventory through the spring and early

9 summer.

10 I assure you they will have to greatly

11 mark down prices to move heating appliances

12 if they're forced to sell them in April, May

13 and June. That hurts the numbers and eats

14 away at the margins and no one likes margin

15 erosions. Companies and stockholders do not

16 like low profits and they will force -- they

17 will begin to ask -- they will force

18 companies like United States Stove Company to

19 take back this product and again adding to

20 the cost of this program or this proposal

21 that's facing our companies.

22 Remember, these are not just products

23 but also the literature, point of sale

24 merchan dise, the transportation costs, the

Page 112

1 handling, these are hard costs. Then add the

2 cost of the lost sales and commissions, the

3 lost revenues by retailers which would then

4 come back to us.

5 They'd go, hey, we lost sales on this,

6 what are you gonna do for me? I need you to

7 make this up in COWOK (phonetic) dollars and

8 advertising dollars. And you start to see

9 how impactful the trickle down effect would

10 be in this proposal, and what about the mom

11 and pops, the small stores, the ones that

12 sell fifty to seventy-five units a year and

13 have ten left over.

14 What do they do? Normally, they'd keep

15 them on the floor, they'd try to sell them

16 but they can't afford to mark them down.

17 There are thousands of these smaller mom and

18 pop shops that need time to manage the

19 seasonal inventory. The economic impact they

20 are facing needs to be considered.

21 This month, February 8th I believe it

22 was, I read an article that the President has

23 directed the administration to lead a new

24 role in made in rural America initiative.

Page 113

1 This initiative is charged with bringing

2 together federal resources to help rural

3 businesses and leaders take advantage of new

4 investment opportunities and access new

5 customers and markets, expanding outside the

6 US will provide assistance to grow these

7 small businesses.

8 Building the future of these rural

9 American success stories and put factory

10 workers back on the line, building products

11 that are proudly made in America. It looks

12 like we have the support and backing of the

13 President and several government agencies.

14 In this proposal, it mentions the US

15 Department of Agriculture, US Department of

16 Commerce and the Small Business

17 Administration and the few of the United

18 States Representatives.

19 Here, we have the EPA and a few others

20 force an agenda that history has shown will

21 reduce small business and, most assuredly,

22 eliminate American jobs with little or no

23 significant impact -- environmental impact.

24 Remember, by your own numbers, there are
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HEARING February 26, 2014

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Page 114

1 millions of older models still in use and

2 they will all be grandfathered in and once

3 the new models are four to five times higher

4 price than they are now, who will upgrade

5 their existing products.

6 Who will be able to -- left to support

7 the existing products and who will keep the

8 production lines moving and American

9 employees on the job? As we've seen from the

10 census data and the original NSPS, there was

11 a steady decline in wood heating since 1989.

12 Anybody see a similarity here?

13 As soon as sticker shock hit, the United

14 States Stove Company made an effort to

15 develop new and innovative products and

16 expand our offerings to survive this

17 downturn, this is something that we've

18 discussed in great detail with Gil.

19 We diversified our product line and

20 we're a stronger company today for it. We've

21 grown through these challenging years and is

22 one of the largest stakeholders and one of

23 the few still standing from the original

24 NSPS. We stand here today as a voice of

Page 115

1 reason, to help explain and understand the

2 financial impact this proposal has on our

3 company, the retailers and the American

4 family.

5 Due all -- due to all the product types

6 included in this proposal, we are being

7 penalized for our strategic efforts to grow

8 our business. This proposal asks that we

9 have our wood stoves and pellet stoves ready

10 in 2015, plus our single-burn rate stoves and

11 our warm air furnaces upon promulgation.

12 Taking on one fight is challenging

13 enough. That you would ask that we take on

14 multiple categories, the crunch of the time

15 table and the needed resources to be

16 available for us to be compliant. Again, the

17 American -- rural American initiative is to

18 promote and grow our company.

19 This ruling may not only reverse our

20 growth but, quite possibly, destroy it.

21 Retailers also carry multiple products and

22 category and the seasonal category is one of

23 the most difficult. Out west, they're

24 stocking lawn mowers right now with no grass

Page 116

1 to mow, that is why we strongly suggest you

2 review the idea the product should be rushed

3 to market, directing affordable alternatives,

4 forcing products to market without adequate

5 time for field testing, durability testing

6 and offering little or no opportunity to help

7 retailers manage their investments.

8 We ask that you remember that these are

9 seasonal products, not light bulbs, and

10 retailers should be allowed some time to

11 manage their inventory without penalizing

12 their investment.

13 We ask that you look at the proposal and

14 review what we really need in American homes,

15 in American factories and American retailers

16 and build on the administration's made in

17 rural America initiative. Thank you.

18 MR. ACKERLY: Thank you Greg, Alison,

19 Gil. My name is John Ackerly, it's

20 A-C-K-E-R-L-Y. I appreciate the opportunity

21 to testify. Maybe more, I appreciate the

22 opportunity for this community to be able to

23 testify to each other and to engage in this

24 time to listen to each other's views, learn

Page 117

1 from each other and I hope that continues not

2 just during the comment period but over the

3 next year.

4 I think a lot of people here have a lot

5 to contribute and I know you'll have a -- you

6 have a big plate ahead of you. Ironically,

7 I'm happy to be up here with Paul Williams.

8 Also, I represent a nonprofit that is

9 more consumer-oriented and we really look at

10 the impacts on low-income people and the

11 benefits to low-income people in wood

12 heating.

13 I want to start by saying we support

14 these standards generally, because we believe

15 they are the basis for growing wood heat in

16 America. We want to see more families be

17 able to heat with wood cleanly and we think

18 this is an essential step to bring in more

19 stoves to the public while keeping overall

20 emissions lower.

21 I want to also say we should remember

22 this as a renewable heat -- heating source,

23 that we help our country get off fossil

24 fuels. The regulations are not just about
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HEARING February 26, 2014

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Page 118

1 wood smoke but they are about national energy

2 policy. I was disappointed that the EPA did

3 not mention the word renewable a single time

4 in the proposed regulations.

5 We call on the EPA to recognize the

6 value of wood and pellets as a renewable and

7 as an affordable heating source in America.

8 This is not coal. This is a renewable and

9 EPA has a mandate to promote renewables and

10 that should be reflected in the NSPS.

11 We further believe that wood stoves need

12 to be cleaner than the current ones and we

13 believe one point three grams an hour is

14 achievable. we share some of the concerns

15 that you've heard from industry about with so

16 many different aspects of this, the testing

17 and fueling be in play and I know that's

18 gonna -- you'll have a lot of work ahead of

19 you on that.

20 We also believe pellet -- pellet stoves

21 should meet an even stricter standard. We

22 think they should be 2.5 grams an hour upon

23 promulgation. Every gram an hour makes a

24 difference in a neighborhood and there are

Page 119

1 now some neighborhoods with more pellet

2 stoves than wood stoves.

3 Soon, we may have more pellet stoves

4 sold in America than wood stoves. We should

5 not be setting a 4.5 standard for a class of

6 stoves that is already under 2.5. It's

7 simply not BDT.

8 We also believe that an important change

9 is the NSPS needs to recognize a clearer

10 pathway for automated stoves to be tested and

11 to come to market. We've heard a lot today

12 about the problem with stoves is not the

13 technology by it's the operator.

14 Only when we get more automated stoves

15 will we have the really clean burning stoves

16 that reduce the operator error and EPA should

17 help in this process and not hinder this sort

18 of innovation by not recognizing and

19 anticipating this class of technology.

20 In terms of efficiency, we are very glad

21 that we'll finally have actual efficiency

22 numbers and EPA has an important story to

23 tell to consumers, that these stoves are

24 going to save consumers a lot of money. This

Page 120

1 is a good story that's not being told and if

2 you're trying to sell this -- these

3 regulations to legislators across the country

4 and to consumers across the county, this is a

5 good foot forward and we -- we urge you to

6 use that.

7 In terms of hang tags, we are actually

8 stunned to see the EPA propose to eliminate

9 the consumer hang tags that would tell

10 consumers how clean and efficient the stove

11 is. It's a terrible idea and we urge you to

12 reverse this part of the proposal.

13 Why would the EPA put so much effort

14 into an Energy Star label and try to get

15 consumer recognition with this label and then

16 for one procedure, ours, say that consumers

17 can easily go to the web -- your website.

18 We know that lower-income families, as

19 Paul has been describing, are ones who are

20 often in this market and they deserve a good,

21 clear label on the showroom floor.

22 In closing, just a bit of my personal

23 experience. I have a seven-year-old son. I

24 heat my home mostly with wood. And I live in

Page 121

1 a neighborhood where we all have

2 EPA-certified stoves. My neighborhood has

3 too much smoke. I want to continue burning

4 wood, I want my neighbors to be able to burn

5 wood and we need EPA-certified stoves that

6 are cleaner.

7 We've heard a lot of talk about change

8 outs. We firmly believe change outs are

9 important but they are -- they're not the

10 answer. There's simply not enough money

11 around the country to do change outs.

12 We need -- there may be more regulatory

13 ways to get stoves out of commission but the

14 problem is the operators in my neighborhood,

15 these are very well-meaning, educated people.

16 They simply don't get their act together to

17 get dry wood. They ratchet the air down at

18 night, so the problem is not the old stoves.

19 The problem is stoves. And until we

20 get -- we need cleaner technology to help,

21 even when the consumers don't operate the

22 stove properly but we also need to anticipate

23 more augmented stoves that can help reduce

24 operator error. I think we'll look back on
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Page 122

1 this period like we did in 1988 as helping

2 the wood stove industry, helping America burn

3 with wood.

4 It was -- '88 forced innovation and this

5 one will too, and I think it's a very

6 important step forward. Thank you.

7 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Ackerly.

8 Any questions from the panel? Okay. The

9 next speakers are gonna be Ed Miller and

10 Brandon Barry.

11 And we're pretty much on schedule. I

12 think most -- most people have been close to

13 the five minutes, a couple of exceptions so

14 but everyone is doing very well.

15 MR. MILLER: Good morning. My name is

16 Ed Miller. I'm the Senior Vice President for

17 Public Policy for the American Lung

18 Association for the Northeast and I'm happy

19 to be here this morning.

20 I'm actually here this morning to

21 deliver testimony on behalf and support of

22 these regulations on behalf of about

23 seventeen health and medical organizations in

24 Maine and Massachusetts who could not be here

Page 123

1 today. They're part of our Healthy Air

2 Coalition and for some of these, it's the

3 first time they've ever had any connection

4 with EPA, quality proposed regulations and

5 those organizations in -- and I'm not gonna

6 read my testimony here but those

7 organizations, The Maine Academy of

8 Pediatrics, The Maine Cystic Fibrosis Family

9 Advisory Board, a number of community

10 coalitions, the Healthy Oxford Hills

11 Coalition, Choose to Be Healthy Coalition,

12 Opportunity Alliance, communities promoting

13 health coalition, Maine Health which is the

14 largest health system in Maine, Physicians

15 for Social Responsibility, the Maine chapter,

16 The Maine Medical Association, the Asthma and

17 Allergy Foundation of America, New England

18 chapter, The Breath of Life, Dorchester, Bold

19 Teens, Codman Square Neighborhood Health

20 Center, Healthy Mothers Healthy Babies

21 Coalition of Massachusetts, Health Resources

22 in Action and the Massachusetts Association

23 for Health, Phys Ed, Recreation and Dance and

24 the Pioneer Valley Asthma Coalition.

Page 124

1 There's a large number of health and

2 public health organizations that are looking

3 at this as a significant step that needs to

4 be taken to address a problem as particularly

5 intense in -- in our region of the -- of the

6 county.

7 I will not go into any more depth

8 because you've heard our testimony as the

9 Lung Association, I just have a couple more

10 comments to say. This is not a case of the

11 emissions regulations versus change outs. We

12 think these are both very important.

13 We agree that neither of them alone are

14 going to solve this problem, but we do

15 believe that both together can work fine.

16 And we -- we appreciate the support that

17 the EPA and, in fact, that industry has shown

18 in working with us on change outs throughout

19 this -- throughout this region. And also

20 just in closing, say since 1988 -- I have a

21 long history in public health.

22 I've been in public health since the

23 early seventies and I just have to say I

24 couldn't help but sit here and look back at

Page 125

1 some of the arguments that were made when we

2 were sitting in meetings like this talking

3 about motor vehicle emissions reductions and

4 the progress that's been made in that area

5 has been very significant in partnership

6 between the EPA and the industry that's being

7 regulated.

8 I'm very confident that we can reach

9 that same kind of -- of progress with both

10 parties working closely together for the

11 health of the people of this country. Thank

12 you.

13 MR. BARRY: My name is Brandon Barry,

14 B-A-R-R-Y, and I'm representing United States

15 Stove Company and I want to thank you for the

16 opportunity to speak here today.

17 First of all, this proposal affects me

18 personally and, whether I work in this

19 industry or not, it still would affect me

20 personally. There's not a single person in

21 my close family whose main source of heat is

22 not some result -- a result of some type of

23 wood combustion. I can honestly say that

24 some of my earliest memories in life are
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Page 126

1 intertwined with wood stoves, gathering

2 firewood, taking out ashes, feeding the stove

3 when needed, all as childhood chores.

4 Now, this proposal is to the point that

5 it might force many wood-burning appliances

6 out of existence and there's where the

7 personally really comes in. I am the

8 Director of Engineering for Product Research

9 and Testing for United States Stove Company,

10 and wood-burning products are my and my

11 family's way of life in more ways than one.

12 This proposal poses a cost increase in

13 all affected categories of wood-burning

14 appliances and those increases will have to

15 be passed on to the end consumer. In a

16 country where new applicants for jobless

17 benefits and unemployment numbers are at the

18 top of the daily news, cost increases are not

19 taken lightly and ultimately turn many

20 consumers away.

21 Many of these cost increases pose a

22 threat of pricing appliances virtually out of

23 existence. How do you explain how a

24 product's average price increases over

Page 127

1 400 percent to a consumer? That 400 percent

2 cost increase -- or coming back to that

3 personally, I personally love the idea of

4 heating your home with wood. Forests are

5 America's most renewable resource and a

6 carbon neutral one at that.

7 The changes as a result of this proposal

8 will make many families who would normally

9 choose wood to heat their home to turn to

10 modern alternatives and burn fossil fuels one

11 way or another. These are directly through

12 natural gas, home heating oil or propane or

13 indirectly through electricity since roughly

14 66 percent of all electricity in the United

15 States is produced by burning coal and

16 natural gas.

17 Replacing carbon neutral fossil fuels is

18 not going to benefit the environment. That

19 400 percent cost increase was in the forced

20 air furnace category, which is a category

21 where previous -- that was previously

22 unaffected by the current NSPS. Just in case

23 you didn't know, a wood furnace gives the

24 user option to replace a supplemental

Page 128

1 traditional fossil fire or electrical HVAC

2 system with a wood -- wood burning system to

3 offset energy costs which in turn offsets

4 fossil fuel consumption.

5 This proposal outlines that wood furnace

6 testing be conducted to CSAB415.1-10,

7 Canadian consensus based test method. There

8 are several Canadian-manufactured furnaces

9 that currently meet these limits outlined in

10 the -- in B415.1 which will be the same as

11 Step One limits in this proposal, so they are

12 automatic -- so they would automatically

13 comply with the proposed regulations.

14 In turn, no major American furnace

15 manufacturer currently produces a furnace

16 that meets these regulations since this was a

17 previously-unaffected category. At this

18 point, Canadian manufacturers have already

19 made an investment in their products to meet

20 the mark to sell to their markets, but

21 American manufacturers are forced to start

22 today.

23 Through the economics of NAFTA, this

24 proposal will automatically and directly

Page 129

1 promotes Canadian-based manufacturing at the

2 expense of unnecessary and unreasonable

3 damages to American manufacturers, all of

4 which are American small businesses and

5 support American jobs and families.

6 The other affected appliance in the

7 central heating category is hydronic heaters.

8 And they had a EPA-voluntary program that is

9 run for over eight years now. The wood

10 furnace industry has had no such program. It

11 is stated in the proposed NSPS that all wood

12 furnaces not meeting the new standard will be

13 forced to comply at sixty days after

14 promulgation.

15 At this point, we have been given no

16 guarantee that if we test to CSAB415.1-10

17 today that the data will be accepted upon

18 promulgation. At the very least, we need a

19 road forward to start testing now. The EPA

20 also feels that furnace manufacturers should

21 be able to comply with phase-two limits six

22 years from now.

23 This proposal makes mention, and I

24 quote, given the largest US forced air
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1 furnace manufacturer already has a catalytic

2 model reading 0.6 six pounds per million BTU,

3 we think six years of lead time is sufficient

4 time in which to conduct R & D and to produce

5 comparably lower-emitting model lines.

6 This statement is by no means factual,

7 as the United States Stove Company is the

8 largest forced air furnace manufacturer in

9 the United States and we did not make that

10 statement. I know -- I almost certainly know

11 which manufacturer made that comment.

12 I know with the same certainty that this

13 product was made in Canada and, due to the

14 inaccuracy of this statement, I question on

15 good authority the act of -- the validity of

16 the claimed number.

17 I challenge the EPA to produce the data

18 that says this number is the best system for

19 emission reduction and supporting evidence

20 that 0.6 pounds per million BTU is a

21 legally-justified number as required on a

22 technology-based rule making process.

23 I would hate to see America come to the

24 point where they have to rely on Canadian

Page 131

1 manufacturers to provide this as -- for their

2 heating needs because they cut the American

3 small business out of the game. Also, I hate

4 to see less people, people like my family,

5 heating with wood, our best energy source.

6 Let's not forget that wood burning is a

7 sustainable form of heating American homes

8 and this administration does not want to be

9 known for overseeing the legislative

10 undermining of American small businesses.

11 Give American manufacturers reasonable

12 time to comply and to develop cost effective

13 and safe wood fire warm air furnaces for

14 future generations. Thank you.

15 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Barry. Any

16 questions for these speakers? No. Okay.

17 The next speakers are gonna be

18 Mike Fitzgerald and Charles Niebling.

19 MR. FITZGERALD: Good morning. My name

20 is Mike Fitzgerald and I'm the Assistant

21 Director of the Resources Division with the

22 New Hampshire Department of Environmental

23 Resources and we appreciate the opportunity

24 to speak to you today. First, I'd like to

Page 132

1 recognize and thank EPA for all their hard

2 work on this -- this NSPS and State of New

3 Hampshire and our department strongly support

4 the proposal. We would note that it's been

5 26 years since promulgation of the current

6 NSPS and we strongly encourage EPA to move

7 forward without delay.

8 Biomass energy is a very important

9 resource in New Hampshire. Wood is a

10 carbon-neutral renewable resource and wood

11 fuels provide almost four percent of New

12 Hampshire's energy and represent nearly all

13 of half -- nearly half of the state's

14 renewable energy, as you can see from the

15 first two handouts, pieces of the handout

16 that I provided to you.

17 New Hampshire is over eighty-percent

18 forest and our forests and wood products

19 industry contributes more than three billion

20 dollars in economic activity to New

21 Hampshire's economy. Supplying wood for

22 fuels is an important factor in allowing

23 timberland owners to receive economic benefit

24 from their timber stands and allows them to

Page 133

1 maintain their lots and keep our forests

2 available as a carbon sink.

3 That being said, wood smoke is a

4 significant contributor to PM emissions in

5 New Hampshire and is a significant public

6 health issue for us. Over 35,000 households

7 use wood as a primary heat source in New

8 Hampshire and currently on a BTU basis, wood

9 is approximately half the price of oil and

10 many, many houses are turning to wood to

11 save -- to save money.

12 Given all this increased use, New

13 Hampshire needs wood-burning appliances to be

14 as clean as possible. The picture I have

15 here is from the city of Keene. During

16 the -- during the winter on days like today,

17 we experience significant inversions in the

18 area that trap wood smoke on almost all

19 the switches from the residential wood

20 stoves.

21 And as you can see from the next -- next

22 chart, it shows a strong correlation with

23 levoglucosan. From -- in filters that we

24 test, we -- we know that -- that the -- the
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Page 134

1 issue in this area is wood smoke. We, the

2 City of Keene and surrounding area, has

3 experienced three exceedances of the federal

4 max for PM in the last year.

5 If it were not for the formative NAAQS

6 measuring for -- from midnight to midnight,

7 we would have experienced probably several

8 more and the area would prob -- most likely

9 drop into non-attainment for PM. That would

10 be a significant economic and public health

11 issue for the -- for the area.

12 And the Clean Air Act was not designed

13 to -- when an area drops into non-attainment

14 for PM, it imposes economic sanctions on

15 businesses, it imposes motor vehicle

16 requirements, none of which would -- would

17 contribute to solving the problem for us.

18 So avoiding non-attainment is a

19 significant issue for us, to the extent that

20 we invested over $100,000.00 in a wood stove

21 change out campaign I believe years ago in

22 this area to try to reduce the amount of wood

23 smoke and -- and ensure that the area did not

24 go into non-attainment. So, again,

Page 135

1 these -- these charts show you that bottom

2 line the -- as you can see, there's a strong

3 correlation between wind speed and -- and

4 time of day and particulate matter levels in

5 this area and on the -- on the last chart,

6 you see there are exceed -- this dramatically

7 illustrates, as you can see, the PM levels go

8 up very strongly late in the day around 5:00

9 p.m. when people come home, light up their

10 wood stoves.

11 They continue to elevate around

12 midnight -- to around midnight when everyone

13 goes to bed and their stoves, you know, damp

14 down. Then at six p.m. (sic) in the morning,

15 we see people lighting them up and the levels

16 of PM rise dramatically and, as you can see

17 from this chart, sometimes the levels are

18 over eighty which is over twice the federal

19 standard and then dropping throughout the day

20 until we repeat the cycle.

21 And, as I said, the current NAAQS for

22 wood -- for PM in effect today measures based

23 on filter measurements that are 24-hour

24 filter-based measurements that go from

Page 136

1 midnight to midnight and so, because of that,

2 the -- you don't see -- you don't get both

3 peaks in the same 24-hour period and so we

4 would -- we would certainly be non-attainment

5 and have many more exceedances.

6 So, given that, we -- we strongly

7 support this -- this standard. We support

8 comments that have been provided to you

9 previously and -- and by -- by NESCAUM on

10 behalf of the Northeast states, and we hope

11 that EPA will move ahead expeditiously.

12 Thank you.

13 MR. MURPHY: Thank you.

14 MR. NIEBLING: Good morning, I'm

15 Charlie Niebling. I'm former General Manager

16 with New England Wood Pellet. I'm currently

17 a consultant to the company and I'm

18 authorized to speak on their behalf today,

19 and thanks very much for the opportunity.

20 New England Wood Pellet is the

21 Northeast's largest manufacturer and

22 distributor of wood pellet fuel, wood plants

23 in Jaffrey, New Hampshire, Schuyler, New

24 York, and Deposit, New York. Our plants have

Page 137

1 the capacity to produce 250,000 tons a year,

2 sufficient fuel to heat about 75,000 homes'

3 wood stoves and boilers. And, believe me,

4 all three plants are running pedal to the

5 metal right now.

6 As a company, we are strongly committed

7 to the advancement of clean-combusting,

8 highly-efficient residential wood-heating

9 appliances. We recognize that widespread

10 support in the market for pellet fuel will be

11 dependent on the industry's ability to

12 produce truly advanced clean-burning

13 appliances and the consumer's willingness to

14 accept that high-efficiency and clean

15 combustion may come with additional costs.

16 New England Wood Pellet is proud to be

17 the first US manufacturer to be audited and

18 independently certified for compliance with

19 the Pellet Fuels Institute Fuel Standards

20 program. We take the consistent high quality

21 of our fuel very seriously.

22 We offer these high-level comments and

23 we'll -- we'll submit additional written

24 remarks before the deadline. First, wood
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Page 138

1 heating is a renewable, carbon-beneficial

2 energy technology and should be acknowledged

3 as such by EPA.

4 Second, New England Wood Pellets

5 supports EPA's decision to issue revised

6 Performance Standards for wood and pellet

7 stoves and boilers as a way of encouraging a

8 cleaner wood-heating future in America.

9 Third, New England Wood Pellet believes

10 that these rules can help increase the number

11 of homes that can use wood and not fossil

12 fuels because stoves will be cleaner, more

13 efficient and result in more savings compared

14 to fossil fuels and broader public acceptance

15 of wood as a mainstream heating fuel choice.

16 Fourth, EPA should consider granting the

17 industry some extra time to meet the very

18 stringent requirements that you have

19 proposed. Fifth, New England Wood Pellet

20 believes that credible testing and

21 enforcement is an essential component of any

22 New Source Performance Standard under the

23 Clean Air Act. To that end, we support the

24 requirement that pellet appliances be tested

Page 139

1 with pellet fuels that meet PFI or equivalent

2 certification requirements and that consumers

3 be advised, if not strongly encouraged, to

4 purchase certified fuel to ensure that their

5 appliance will perform as warrantied by the

6 manufacturer.

7 Others will speak to the details of

8 PFI's standards program but, in our judgment,

9 it is credible and rigorous. We believe it

10 is essential for the industry to embrace a

11 single nationwide or international

12 comprehensive enforceable standards program,

13 if pellet fuel is to become a mainstream

14 heating choice for more Americans.

15 EPA's proposal that pellet appliances

16 and testing of these appliances comply with

17 the fuel standard in the proposed NSPS

18 demonstrates the understanding that

19 reliably-clean combustion is dependent upon

20 consistently high-quality fuel and a

21 well-engineered appliance.

22 As EPA moves to finalize this

23 regulation, we urge you to keep in mind that

24 there are many valid reasons why EPA should

Page 140

1 support wider adoption of wood heating

2 besides lower particulate emissions and the

3 public health benefits that will result.

4 American energy security, support of

5 renewable energy, lower net greenhouse gas

6 emissions compared to other fossil fuels,

7 lower emissions of sulphur and mercury

8 compared to other fossil fuels, rural

9 economic development and significant cost

10 savings for homeowners and businesses facing

11 ever-rising heating costs. Thank you very

12 much.

13 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any questions

14 for that panel?

15 MR. WOOD: No.

16 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, gentlemen. The

17 next two speakers will be Dave Hannah

18 and Lisa Rector.

19 MR. HANNAH: Good morning. My name is

20 Dave Hannah. I submitted a hard copy earlier

21 on my presentation, as well as the digital

22 version and, essentially, what I have here is

23 a ten-page Powerpoint presentation that

24 contains an opening statement and a

Page 141

1 conclusion. Because you have the hard copy

2 and because you have the digital version, in

3 the interest of time, I'm gonna just touch on

4 some of the slides that are crucial to

5 support my -- my opening statements.

6 All right. The primary mission for a

7 chimney sweep is to identify safety hazards

8 and make necessary recommendations to correct

9 them. The purpose of my presentation today

10 is to provide the committee credible evidence

11 why these proposed regulations pose a

12 significant fire-hazard risk to the American

13 public.

14 We've heard earlier about the energy

15 crisis launching wood burning in the industry

16 in the seventies. The information on this

17 sheet will demonstrate that I've been an

18 active participant in the chimney service

19 industry and its development for the last 37

20 years.

21 After three years of organization, we

22 started the Chimney Sweep Guild in Portland,

23 Maine and, after three years, we changed the

24 name to the National Chimney Sweep Guild,
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Page 142

1 because what started in New England had

2 spread nationwide.

3 After ten years in business, many

4 chimney sweeps like myself had very solid

5 businesses with ten or more vehicles on the

6 road, twenty to thirty employees and

7 everybody in the industry that I'm familiar

8 with on a national basis totally supported

9 the '88 standards and primarily because

10 chimney sweeps are all about safety and we

11 believe that cleaner-burning stoves would

12 produce less creosote and therefore be safer,

13 they'd be better for the environment and

14 would go a long way in preserving wood

15 burning, however, they had some negative

16 consequences.

17 Only two years later, the chimney

18 service industry along with wood burning

19 completely tanked in this country. Some of

20 that was due to the fact that the price of

21 oil dropped so low it was cheaper for

22 homeowners to turn up their thermostats than

23 it was to burn wood. Another aspect was that

24 the cost for manufacturers to re-engineer

Page 143

1 their stoves caused the price of a wood stove

2 to double, so wood burning was reduced by

3 more than fifty percent. My fear today is

4 that history is about to repeat itself. This

5 map shows the strong increase in wood burning

6 in the last ten years.

7 In fact, the latest Census Bureau Report

8 states that over twelve percent of homes are

9 primarily heated by wood. If you look at the

10 darker sections in the map -- by the way,

11 this map was courtesy of the Alliance for

12 Green Energy.

13 The darker portions represent areas in

14 the country where wood burning has increased

15 by more than 150 percent, however, at the

16 same time, if we can get this to move,

17 according to HPBA, stove sales really peaked,

18 and I put it in red, in 2008.

19 You see it start to decline in 2005

20 around Katrina and the American public

21 decided to get off the grid and be more

22 independent in case of emergencies. But,

23 since 2008, you can clearly see that sales of

24 wood stoves have gone down significantly, in

Page 144

1 fact, more than seventy percent loss. All

2 the while, while we here are experiencing the

3 greatest increase in wood burning, there's

4 only one way to explain that and that is that

5 more and more of these older, polluting, more

6 dangerous stoves are being used.

7 My biggest problem as a chimney sweep is

8 catalytic dampers, and I thought that it

9 might be useful for the committee to hear

10 what it's like for the person that actually

11 goes out and services a catalytic stove.

12 Often times what we find is that in order to

13 take them apart, we break the studs off.

14 We have to drill the studs out. We have

15 to retap the stove. When we get into the

16 damper, it may be damaged or the cat box is

17 damaged. There may be a two or three week

18 delay before we can go back to the customer

19 to replace that stove.

20 Most cat stoves run in the open mode

21 forty percent more of the time, and then the

22 open mode, the stove produces more

23 particulates than a non-cat EPA-certified

24 stove. This is based on field studies. In

Page 145

1 fact, the Stevenson study shows that forty

2 percent of homeowners use their cat appliance

3 with the bypass always or often open.

4 Now, further evidence of high cat stove

5 emissions in the bypass modes is chimney

6 sweeps often find creosote when servicing

7 these appliances and, therefore, non-cat

8 EPA-certified stoves should not be held to

9 the lowest cat stove emissions standard.

10 And the real risk is that homeowners

11 falsely believe that, because they have a

12 catalytic stove, they don't have to have

13 their chimney cleaned and often they avoid

14 this until they either have a chimney fire or

15 that it just completely stops working.

16 My alert here is -- and, again, chimney

17 sweeps are all about fire hazards and safety.

18 As the use of the older stoves increase due

19 to the high cost of purchasing new technology

20 stoves, which is at least a 25-percent

21 increase in price, more creosote will be

22 deposited in chimneys creating potential for

23 a dangerous chimney fire. Homeowners not

24 engaging their combustor or using their cat
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Page 146

1 stove improperly creates more creosote and

2 risks a chimney fire, and this is -- this is

3 the key element of this slide, a non-cat

4 EPA-certified stove is passively active.

5 What that means is there's very little

6 chance for the homeowner to make an error in

7 the operation, it just works. My opposition

8 to the proposed regulations, I've listed them

9 here. In the interest of time, you've got

10 them in writing.

11 I don't really want to go into, you

12 know, spending too much time on this but

13 here's my conclusion. The result of these

14 proposed regulations will see more older,

15 non-EPA certified stoves in use, producing

16 significant amounts of creosote which can

17 result in more chimney fires.

18 The result of these proposed regulations

19 will see more cat stoves in use due to the

20 high cost of new technology to convert

21 non-cat EPA stoves, and when cat stoves are

22 burned with the bypass open or often open,

23 they produce significant amounts of creosote

24 which can result in chimney fires. This

Page 147

1 represents a danger because the public

2 believes their stoves do not produce creosote

3 and chimney sweeping is neglected.

4 Chimney sweeps would support new

5 regulations that encourage stove swap out

6 programs and reasonable expectations and new

7 technology stoves to address new lower

8 emissions without putting downward pressure

9 on stove sales. Thank you.

10 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Ms. Rector.

11 MS. RECTOR: Good morning. My name is

12 Lisa Rector and that's spelled R-E-C-T-O-R.

13 I'm a Senior Policy Analyst with NESCAUM

14 which is The Northeast States For Coordinated

15 Air Use Management.

16 NESCAUM serves the eight northeast

17 states' air agencies in their efforts to

18 provide clean air for the region. My

19 testimony reflects the position of all but

20 one of our state agencies. And, as you've

21 heard this morning from the state of -- the

22 State of Maine has a different point of view

23 on some of the aspects of the proposed rule.

24 The US EPA's proposed revisions to the

Page 148

1 residential New Source Performance Standards

2 or NSPS, has been a long time in coming.

3 EPA first promulgated rules for the wood

4 heating devices in the 1980s but has not

5 revisited these since that time. And, since

6 that time, the market has expanded with a

7 variety of new device types not covered by

8 the initial standards.

9 As we've heard earlier, manufacturers

10 diversified and, in many cases, produced

11 units that were exempt from the existing

12 regulations. States have attempted to

13 address these issues but have determined that

14 federal standards are necessary to ensure

15 that wood combustion devices address the

16 public health and air quality issues created

17 by high-emitting devices.

18 From a public health perspective,

19 residential wood smoke presents a real and

20 present danger. Residential wood combustion

21 is one of the largest direct sources of

22 particulate matter pollution and this

23 pollution occurs where the public's exposure

24 is greatest; at the home and in neighborhoods

Page 149

1 where people live and where kids play.

2 Studies have correlated acute and chronic

3 wood smoke exposure with adverse health

4 outcomes, such as increases in respiratory

5 system illnesses, decreases in lung function,

6 premature death in people living with liver,

7 lung or heart disease, non-fatal heart

8 attacks, aggravated asthma.

9 These health threats make implementation

10 of a revised health protective rule critical

11 as well as long overdue. Furthermore,

12 continuation of exemptions and outdated

13 emission standards is limiting the US market

14 for high emission, low emitting devices and

15 fosters the continued sales of

16 technologically-inferior products.

17 In order to burn cleanly, you need three

18 things; well-designed devices, appropriate

19 fuels and proper owner operation. Any of

20 these elements can create smoke and we

21 support EPA's efforts in this proposed rule

22 to address all of these components. Wood

23 heat technology has advanced significantly

24 since EPA's existing standards were phased in
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1 more than twenty years ago. Worldwide, many

2 countries have moved to enact broad-reaching

3 efforts to address emission from a variety of

4 pollutants, whereas in the United States,

5 regulations have only focused on particulate

6 matter.

7 For example, in European countries, they

8 have placed emission limits on particulate

9 matter, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxides and

10 volatile organic compounds. And these

11 regulations have gone across a broad suite of

12 device types.

13 What this has resulted in is

14 technology-performance improvements have

15 increased average efficiency from 55 percent

16 to more than ninety percent. In these same

17 places, we've also seen carbon monoxide

18 emissions decrease by 99 percent.

19 Sadly, in the United States we have not

20 seen similar technology improvements.

21 Typically, domestic residential wood burning

22 devices today have annual efficiencies

23 ranging from 25 to 70 percent, well below

24 what we see in other parts of the world.

Page 151

1 Furthermore, a domestically-produced

2 wood-burning central heating unit can emit,

3 based on EPA's own study, fifteen pounds of

4 particulate matter per day, that's a two-ton

5 source in somebody's backyard.

6 For comparison purposes, this emits as

7 much as 250,000 boilers fired with natural

8 gas. Moving to EPA's proposed phase-two

9 limits will produce emission reductions that

10 will significantly minimize the air quality

11 impacts as we move to grow this industry.

12 In order that buyers can make informed

13 choices about the devices they purchase the

14 NESCAUM states support the expanded reporting

15 requirements within the rule, not only of

16 particulate matter but also carbon monoxide

17 and device efficiency.

18 The states also request that the EPA

19 work with the US Department of Energy to

20 create the minimum efficiency standards for

21 residential wood-heating devices, as these

22 are the only residential heating devices not

23 required to meet any minimum efficiency

24 standards. Also important to our states is

Page 152

1 the universe -- universe of devices covered

2 under EPA's proposal.

3 The current outdated standards exempt

4 broad categories of devices, including

5 fireplaces, masonry heaters, pellet stoves,

6 indoor/outdoor boilers, indoor/outdoor

7 furnaces. And the NESCAUM states support

8 efforts to create more inclusive requirements

9 for residential heating equipment and to

10 develop source category definitions that

11 eliminate loopholes to ensure that all

12 residential wood-heating devices are required

13 to meet an emissions standard.

14 Based on experienced significant

15 difficulties in regulating based on whether a

16 unit is put indoors or outdoors or if it

17 heats water or if it heats air, the proposed

18 rule recognizes the reality that all units

19 must provide similar emissions performance,

20 and we support those efforts.

21 Timing is also important. Implementing

22 stricter emission standards for exempted

23 devices, such as hydronic heaters, furnaces

24 and single-burn rate stoves as soon as

Page 153

1 possible it's critical to obtaining air

2 quality benefits. Currently exempted

3 wood-burning units also receive an economic

4 advantage over regulated devices while

5 creating significant smoke and health

6 problems around the region.

7 While EPA's proposed rule has a number

8 of positive aspects, we have concerns with

9 the current EPA certification test method.

10 Potentially the greatest public health issue

11 for wood combustion is associated with

12 high-level, short term particulate emission

13 spikes that are not captured by the current

14 test method.

15 The current procedure averages emissions

16 over a huge -- excuse me, fuel charge and

17 these fuel charges can burn from anywhere

18 from two to forty-plus hours and included in

19 that is what we often refer to as the

20 charcoal tail, it's a long period where

21 emissions are very low.

22 As a result, the current test procedure

23 does not adequately capture high emissions

24 that can initially occur when the unit is
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1 refueled. In addition, the use of certain

2 types of wood, specifically oak in the

3 hydronic heater test method can significantly

4 underestimate emissions from other less-dense

5 fuel that we typically see being used in

6 these devices.

7 Testing data indicates that emission

8 fuel such as birch and douglas fir can be 200

9 to 400 percent greater than those of others,

10 therefore we recommend that EPA develop and

11 use alternative test methods that better

12 reflect real world operation of wood burning

13 devices and standardizes those test methods

14 across devices to the greatest extent

15 possible.

16 Pellet fuels -- I'll speed up, sorry.

17 Pellet fuels are another area of concern.

18 With the increasing use of pellet fuels for

19 residential home heating, the makeup of those

20 pellets and the potential impact from their

21 use is increasing in importance. The EPA has

22 proposed the industry establish a pellet

23 quality standard. NESCAUM conducted a study

24 and found that these products contain

Page 155

1 significant levels of metals and harmful

2 contaminants which can significantly increase

3 toxics emissions and potentially damage

4 high-efficiency equipment.

5 The current PFI standard will not

6 identify pellets that contain contaminated

7 wood and, therefore, we propose that EPA

8 examine the potential for employing standards

9 used in other markets where wood fuels have

10 strict product certifications.

11 The NESCAUM states believe that EPA's

12 final rule should encourage the development

13 and sale of advanced technologies in the near

14 term. It should also accommodate a smooth

15 transition to cleaner-burning units across

16 categories by allowing manufacturers to

17 continue to sell most current technology

18 devices for a period of time while they

19 design for the future.

20 In conclusion, NESCAUM supports adoption

21 of rigorous and achievable emission limits

22 for all sources affected by this proposal.

23 Promoting the early installation of the

24 cleanest devices is imperative because, once

Page 156

1 installed, they will remain in place for

2 decades to come. Thank you.

3 MR. MURPHY: Questions? Thank you. The

4 next two speakers are Jeff Hallowell and

5 Chris Wiberg.

6 MR. HALLOWELL: Thank you and good

7 morning. My name is Jeff Hallowell. I'm

8 with ClearStak and I appreciate the time to

9 convey our thoughts here today. I did send

10 in a written submission to the docket and

11 this just covers really the first two pages

12 of that submission.

13 Yesterday, I had the privilege of

14 driving a Tesla. It's a fairly fast electric

15 car. What they've done with variable-speed

16 technology, three-phase motors and control

17 technology and storage is pretty amazing.

18 There's a lot of things also happening in our

19 industry.

20 If you went to the Wood Stove Challenge

21 last year, there was a couple of teams there.

22 One that I worked with, University of

23 Maryland, used thermal electric devices to

24 generate power. They actually used it to run

Page 157

1 the controls and also to charge the battery

2 there as well. There was another company

3 there presenting as well, BioLight, which

4 also makes a biomass device that charges your

5 phone and also operates a light as well.

6 In 2011, Honda came out with a micro CHP

7 unit and I think they sold over a hundred

8 thousand in the first couple of years and I

9 think you'll see a lot more micro CHP units

10 out there. Right now, we're working with a

11 lot of them in the wood-burning area and we

12 do think that it's important for the future.

13 One of the things that's driving it is

14 the control technology. Companies like Nest

15 you might have heard of. They not only do

16 new technology that learn but also safe

17 technology that support things like CO

18 monitoring as well.

19 Also in the controls area, there's now

20 smart micro grids that are operating now and

21 also picking which types of sources of power

22 they want to get, and also they can choose

23 low carbon emission as well. There's a

24 couple of different groups out there that
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Page 158

1 look at different carbon emissions but a lot

2 of them are looking at bio energy with CCS,

3 that's probably the best way to go in the

4 future.

5 A lot of people talked about carbon

6 neutral. They're really looking at carbon

7 negative in the future. There's a lot of

8 changes and it's kind of due but I think

9 it's -- it's a trend that's happening right

10 now. There's a couple of different models

11 and here's a couple of them right here.

12 There's basically either a gas, a liquid

13 or a solid carbon and you basically put it

14 back into the ground. These are a couple of

15 different solutions that are out there. Also

16 in the particulate reduction, I think we've

17 heard talk about cat and non-cat, but there's

18 also been a lot of changes in cyclones, ESPs

19 and baghouses as well.

20 And I think some of the newer emissions

21 will need probably a combination of two of

22 them to be able to achieve the limits. So

23 what does it have to do with the NSPS, well,

24 we do support the changes and the addition of

Page 159

1 new appliances. Also, we support pellet and

2 cord wood as well. In the cord wood area,

3 though, we do have a couple of questions

4 about what is cord wood, what does it look

5 like and I think that has to be defined as

6 well.

7 What we'd like to have changed is also

8 encouraging smart controls. There's a lot of

9 new technology out there and there's other

10 types of reduction that I think we need to

11 look at and, as we add some of these systems,

12 looking at input versus output I think will

13 become more important in the future, for

14 example, hybrids.

15 There's a lot of vendors out there now

16 that are integrating solar thermal storage

17 along with the CHP. There's also -- right

18 now, there's kind of a penalty for adding

19 technology. We'd like to see that kind of

20 really there's some incentives there that, as

21 manufacturers adopt different technologies,

22 they're actually encouraged to do that. So

23 what we're looking really at is a vision of

24 the future. When we looked at the current

Page 160

1 rule, we literally look at how we feel

2 devices are going to get smaller and smaller,

3 there's going to be more frequency of loading

4 which is gonna cause more problems, like up

5 in Keene that we mentioned earlier, and that

6 folks will have to buy more units to operate

7 in their house to be able to achieve the same

8 amount of heat.

9 What we see in the future is more

10 devices like micro CHP and more smart

11 technology that will help folks get a

12 payback. We think that it would drive a swap

13 out, that people would swap out their old

14 units if they could get more from it, like

15 generation of power so, if they lost

16 electricity, they'd be able to generate it

17 or, if they had a vehicle they wanted to

18 charge, they could do that.

19 One of the things important to remember

20 on this is that Tesla, BioLight, Nest and

21 ClearStak are all companies that are less

22 than ten-years old. What you're setting

23 forward here in this rule is looking at what

24 incentives and what new companies do you want

Page 161

1 to develop over the next ten years.

2 They're gonna adopt the technology that

3 you're gonna need to move forward, so our

4 presentation is really looking at the next

5 generation, my children and what do they need

6 and what do we have to do to get there and

7 make sure that they have incentives in place

8 to have that vision. Thank you.

9 MR. WIBERG: Chris Wiberg, W-I-B-E-R-G.

10 Hello, everyone, my name is Chris Wiberg. I

11 am the Manager of biomass energy services at

12 Timber Products Inspection which is a

13 third-party auditing and testing agency.

14 We're headquartered in Conyers, Georgia,

15 however, we have over sixty auditors that

16 cover the nation, East Coast to West Coast.

17 Our auditors and testing laboratories provide

18 third-party oversight for the grade marking

19 of numerous products including soft wood

20 lumber, treated lumber, pallets, wood

21 packaging materials, trusses, telephone

22 poles, log homes and now wood pellets.

23 I'm here today to share with you

24 information regarding our inspection and
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1 testing program for wood pellets which is

2 conducted in accordance with the Pellet Fuel

3 Institute's standards program.

4 Timber Products Inspection is a supplier

5 member of the Pellet Fuel Institute, also

6 referred to as PFI, and I have personally

7 served as an active member of the PFI

8 standards committee since 2005.

9 As part of EPA's standards of

10 performance for new residential wood heaters,

11 the PFI standards program is referenced as

12 the means by which it -- by which it

13 consistent -- by which a consistent pellet

14 fuel quality will be achieved.

15 I consider this to be a wise choice, as

16 the PFI standards program was essentially

17 designed for this purpose and includes a

18 robust network of experienced auditing

19 agencies and laboratories, all of which are

20 overseen by an accreditation body.

21 Starting from the top down, here's how

22 our program works. PFI signed an agreement

23 with the American Lumber Standards Committee

24 to serve as the accreditation body for the

Page 163

1 PFI standards program. The American Lumber

2 Standard Committee, also referred to as ALSC,

3 is the same accreditation body that enforces

4 and administers the American Soft Wood Lumber

5 Standard for grade marking of lumber and also

6 administers accreditation programs for the

7 quality marking of treated lumber and wood

8 packaging materials.

9 ALSC in turn has accredited twelve

10 auditing agencies and five testing

11 laboratories to implement the PFI standards

12 program. As one of the twelve accredited

13 auditing agencies and one of the five testing

14 laboratories, Timber Products Inspection

15 performs inspections of wood pellet

16 production facilities to verify that their

17 product quality and the overall quality

18 management system of the facility complies

19 with the PFI standards program.

20 Once a facility is found to be in

21 compliance, Timber Products Inspection issues

22 the production facility a certificate of

23 qualification and a quality mark that can be

24 used on their bags. After qualification is

Page 164

1 complete, Timber Products Inspection performs

2 a monthly unannounced inspection of the

3 production facility to verify continued

4 compliance with the PFI standard.

5 During each inspection, samples are

6 collected at a rate of one sample per one

7 thousand tons of product produced since the

8 last audit. There are a number of other

9 components to this program but with the

10 information I'm sure you can get a feel for

11 how the program works.

12 The accreditation body, as well as the

13 auditing and testing core that has been

14 assembled to oversee PFI standards program is

15 extremely robust and experienced in carrying

16 out this type of a program. In fact, it is

17 the strictest wood pellet quality program in

18 the world based in terms of third-party

19 testing and inspection.

20 Through the PFI Standards Committee, we

21 continue to monitor the performance of this

22 program and we are prepared to make

23 modifications as necessary to assure that it

24 serves the needs of the industry and this

Page 165

1 regulation. As an industry, there are now

2 ten producers that have qualified under the

3 program and there are dozens of others that

4 have initiated the implementation of the PFI

5 standard program requirements.

6 We are still in the early stages of

7 implementation but with resources. We have

8 this network, I am confident that the PFI

9 standards program will be successful in

10 bringing consistent product quality to the

11 wood pellet industry. Thank you.

12 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any panel

13 questions? Thank you, gentlemen.

14 MS. ALDERMAN: Hello, can you hear me?

15 Yeah. My name is Nancy Alderman. I'm the

16 President of Environment and Human Health,

17 Inc, a nonprofit of ten physicians and public

18 health professionals dedicated to protecting

19 the public's health from environmental harms.

20 Wood smoke has become the new secondhand

21 smoke and it is making thousands of people

22 sick across the country. The components of

23 wood smoke are virtually the same as

24 cigarette smoke and yet wood smoke is hardly
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1 regulated while cigarette smoke is highly

2 regulated.

3 The general public is unaware of the

4 dangers of wood smoke exposures and,

5 therefore, public opinion is not on the side

6 of protection. This is a major problem when

7 states try to regulate wood smoke emissions.

8 The fact shows that government at all levels

9 must become more involved with educating the

10 public about what exposures to wood smoke

11 actually can do to the human health issue.

12 With that said, we are heartened that

13 EPA is now trying to address the wood smoke

14 health hazard by proposing New Source

15 Performance Standards for residential wood

16 smoke emissions. What EHHI wishes to testify

17 about is what wood smoke exposures are doing

18 to the health and the financial well-being of

19 those exposed to their neighbors' wood smoke.

20 Because we had so many complaints that

21 came into our group, we decided that it would

22 be important to look at the wood smoke going

23 into the homes of neighbors who live near

24 outdoor wood furnaces. The study found that

Page 167

1 inside homes as far away as 850 feet from an

2 outdoor wood furnace were impacted by enough

3 smoke to cause illness, as well a home 850

4 feet away had six times the levels of PM 2.5

5 as the houses not near an outdoor wood

6 furnace and four times above the levels of

7 the EPA air standards.

8 A home 240 feet away from an outdoor

9 wood furnace had twelve times the level of

10 PM 2.5. EPA's proposed rules will not affect

11 existing outdoor wood furnaces, indoor wood

12 stoves and other wood-burning heaters

13 currently in use, therefore, the country will

14 still have thousands of people being made

15 sick by wood-burning appliances.

16 In our testimony today, I would like to

17 address the financial harms that people who

18 live near wood-burning appliances have

19 sustained through no fault of their own, I

20 have attached nineteen testimonies of people

21 who have been physically and financially

22 harmed by phase one and phase two outdoor

23 wood furnaces and indoor wood stoves. They

24 have all asked for help from all levels of

Page 168

1 government and all have received none. It is

2 clear from peoples' real life stories that

3 the financial burdens of wood burning are

4 being transferred from the wood burner who is

5 saving some money in heating costs to the

6 neighbors who are losing their life savings.

7 As well, if a harmed neighbor were to

8 hire a lawyer and try to sue the wood burner

9 under their state's nuisance clause, what

10 they would quickly find is that the harmed

11 neighbor will pay their lawyer by an hourly

12 rate while the person who -- the wood burner

13 will be able to withstand the suit for a long

14 time because his liability insurance will pay

15 for his lawyer.

16 I have -- I have taken short samples

17 from six of the testimonies around the

18 country that speak to the financial and

19 health losses that the people living near

20 wood-burning appliances have incurred.

21 From Rhode Island we got, my wife who

22 actually had the greatest exposures to

23 outdoor wood furnace emissions, has never

24 fully recovered and has had a lot of health

Page 169

1 issues in the past years with pneumonia the

2 past summer and now has been diagnosed with

3 adult onset asthma. It is impossible to sell

4 our home in the months that our neighbor's

5 outdoor wood furnace is operating which is

6 from May to November. Between filing our

7 disclosures and the publicity our wood smoke

8 problems have caused, most people buying a

9 home nowadays would do a search and the wood

10 smoke issues would scare any buyer away.

11 Since we could not do a deed in lieu of

12 foreclosure, the bank took our house through

13 foreclosure adding salt to the wound and

14 ruining our credit and embarrassing us.

15 From Indiana, we have been breathing

16 smoke from our neighbor's outdoor boiler, a

17 Woodmaster 4400, for four years. It has cost

18 us a lot of money for medicine and doctor

19 visits. We feel like we will die here while

20 we watch our neighbor destroy us in our home

21 and everything we have worked for. We are in

22 our sixties, where can you go -- where can

23 you go when you have medical bills from

24 cancer and a mortgage and you still can't
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1 sell your home because of the wood smoke.

2 From Pennsylvania, three years have

3 passed since we moved from our wood

4 smoke-encased home. We have spent all our

5 retirement money. We have bills from two

6 homes now because we cannot sell our home

7 that is surrounded by our neighbor's wood

8 smoke. We have had to reduce the price of

9 our home from $259 thousand to $169 thousand

10 and although we have to say that we will

11 negotiate the price. We have had severe

12 bronchitis, plus my husband has now developed

13 sleep apnea and we had periods of chest

14 tightness from the smoldering smoke. I had

15 to buy a respirator for the bronchitis and we

16 have had to pay for prescription medications.

17 From British Columbia, in the fall,

18 we -- we brought them in because Canada will

19 adopt whatever the wood smoke air standards

20 are that we set here in the United States and

21 so it seemed appropriate to take this one as

22 well. In the fall of the second year that

23 the wood stove operated next door, my wife

24 was diagnosed with COPD which now costs us

Page 171

1 $300.00 a month to help her breathe. This

2 could only be due to the wood smoke that we

3 have exposed to in our home from the

4 neighbor's wood burning. I have many

5 pictures of our home engulfed in such smoke.

6 I have spent perhaps $4,000.00 in the

7 past three years trying to alleviate our

8 situation, I cannot imagine the financial

9 loss if I were to try to sell the house. And

10 finally from Connecticut, where we are from,

11 we were surrounded by eight indoor

12 wood-burning stoves and some neighbors'

13 burning fireplaces and an outdoor wood

14 furnace about three miles away, my eyes were

15 irritated.

16 I had a bad cough, my sinuses were

17 irritated and not to mention what my horse

18 was suffering. He was heaving all the time,

19 it was terrible. I recently had a stent put

20 in my heart and I had to wonder if I wasn't

21 exposed to so much direct smoke from the wood

22 stoves and open burning would this have

23 happened. I did end up in the ER emergency

24 room one time feeling completely toxic and

Page 172

1 suffering from my heart racing and feeling

2 faint. No one would help us because there

3 are no laws at all put in place to help us

4 and no one would prevent a -- a person from

5 heating their house with wood because they

6 needed to heat no matter how much it was

7 affecting the neighbors.

8 We were relegated simply as cranks. I

9 had a horse barn that I attended to every day

10 and was subjected to an inordinate amount of

11 smoke. Our house sold for $300,000.00 after

12 having it on the market for three years. I

13 want to say of all the things that we do, and

14 environment and human health takes on a lot

15 of -- of health items.

16 We get 100,000 visitors a month to our

17 website, nothing, nothing has been as serious

18 as wood smoke. These people are sick, they

19 are sick now and when we go to our state

20 legislators, and I hear this from around the

21 country, what happens at the state level is

22 everybody arrives from either industry or

23 from the Farm Bureau or from the agricultural

24 departments who want as much wood burned as

Page 173

1 possible and we are overwhelmed, as until now

2 when you have said you will do new wood smoke

3 air standards.

4 What has happened is government has

5 protected the wood burner and has done

6 nothing to protect the people who are being

7 exposed and are losing their entire life

8 savings and when they call us from around the

9 country, there is little we can do because,

10 when we tell them their local health

11 departments have the power to shut down, they

12 go to the wood burner who says you can't do

13 that, I can't afford anything but wood and

14 I'm heating my house, and so they walk away.

15 And the particulates are so small -- you

16 all know this, all of you in this room know

17 it, the particulates are so small from wood

18 burning that they go into the doors and the

19 windows of neighbor's homes and they can't

20 keep it out, no matter what they do, and they

21 are literally breathing wood smoke 24 hours a

22 day, seven days a week with no help and so we

23 are very grateful --

24 MR. MURPHY: Ms. Alderman, you'll have
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Page 174

1 to wrap it up.

2 MS. ALDERMAN: -- to you. I'm wrapping

3 it up but thank you is what I want to say to

4 you, we are very grateful.

5 MR. VOORHEES: Good afternoon. Thank

6 you for the opportunity to speak today. My

7 name is John Voorhees, and it's V as in

8 Victor, O-O-R-H-E-E-S. I'm with U.S. Stove

9 as of a week ago. I have fifteen years

10 experience in hearth and electrical product

11 compliance testing.

12 I would like to address a number of

13 specific test points which are proposed for

14 change. I speak from my fifteen years

15 experience with compliance testing expertise,

16 rather than from a manufacturer's

17 perspective.

18 Number one, in the preamble, you

19 proposed to remove the five-minute startup

20 with the door open. Your premise is that

21 this portion of the test produces the most

22 emissions. At this time, this is unproven

23 with supporting data from laboratory testing

24 or validated with actual consumer product

Page 175

1 operation data. To remove this part of the

2 test makes as much sense as it would be to

3 remove the starter motor out of your vehicle,

4 based on the perspective that you don't

5 really need the starter motor since you could

6 always push your car to get it started.

7 As a practical matter, the five-minute

8 startup is critical to start a fire in a wood

9 stove. Since we are sampling from the start,

10 I don't understand how removing the

11 five-minute how startup will improve

12 emissions.

13 If anything, this will produce more

14 emissions because a fire has a better chance

15 to smolder at the start and more than likely

16 not maintain combustion. Removing this

17 portion of the test is a bad idea and without

18 merit or supporting data.

19 Number two, you are proposing to use

20 with crib fuel and cord wood fuel for

21 testing. In addition, you are proposing to

22 use language stating a reasonable additional

23 nonbinding tests with a range of fuels for

24 additional data. This would more than double

Page 176

1 the cost of testing to the manufacturer in

2 their own R & D prior to the doubling the

3 laboratory costs. I say this not only for

4 the testing time but for the actual fuel

5 management in the labs.

6 We all acknowledge that cord wood

7 produces a different emission result than

8 crib fuel. I believe we also all acknowledge

9 that there is a lack of data with the use of

10 cord wood with emissions generation in

11 laboratory or real world use.

12 To require one additional test in the

13 specific category would be reasonable and

14 would generate a valid test database for

15 determining real world emissions generation

16 from a wood stove from all of us involved in

17 regulation, compliance testing and

18 manufacturing.

19 Number three, your proposal for reducing

20 the average moisture content of the fuel down

21 to 22.5 percent plus or minus one percent is

22 unrealistic from a wood management

23 perspective for R & D and compliance testing

24 laboratories. The amount of fuel which would

Page 177

1 be determined unusable with this restriction

2 with increase dramatically with the excessive

3 waste, therefore increasing the cost of

4 testing.

5 The proposal also proposes tightening

6 the fuel load from seven pounds, plus or

7 minus ten percent, to one percent. And the

8 cold bed from 22 percent -- 22.5 percent,

9 plus or minus one percent. I might add at

10 this point that with that number, our scales

11 won't even measure that resolution

12 difference.

13 Again, these requirements make it very,

14 very difficult, if not impossible, to ensure

15 a compliant test start, therefore, could

16 increase the cost of R & D and testing to a

17 potential unending cycle of trial and error

18 with non-repeatable results.

19 Number four, your proposal indicates

20 that you want to strictly use method 5G3 and

21 eliminate the correction factor for method

22 5H. I believe everyone is in agreement that

23 this correction factor is flawed, especially

24 when you look at the lower end of emissions
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

46 (Pages 178 to 181)

Page 178

1 numbers within substantial data collected

2 from independent and compliance laboratory

3 provided testing.

4 The problem is your final rule, as I

5 understand the wording, would still require

6 the submission of the correction factor. The

7 same issue affects pellet stoves.

8 Number five, I wish to address the

9 requirement of the thirty-day notice for

10 testing. It is my understanding with the

11 original rule making that EPA wanted the

12 opportunity to witness a test and the

13 thirty-day notice allowed for these travel

14 arrangements.

15 In my fifteen years of testing

16 experience, I'm not aware of an EPA

17 representative witnessing a test and we have

18 run many of them. I was responsible for

19 submitting the thirty-day notice to EPA.

20 In most of those notices, I requested a

21 waiver to the thirty-day notice since both

22 the lab and the manufacturer were ready to

23 test. Not once was I ever told I could not

24 begin testing or that the waiver was denied.

Page 179

1 I would like to request that a waiver option

2 be added to the thirty-day notice letter and

3 that the EPA be required to respond if a

4 waiver is requested.

5 If a test is not going to be witnessed

6 by EPA or a state regulator, this requirement

7 is simply a reduction of business for the lab

8 and an unnecessary and costly delay for the

9 manufacturer which is trying to promptly and

10 efficiently introduce a new product into the

11 market.

12 Finally, I want to comment on the

13 statements made concerning proficiency

14 testing. I speak from an experienced

15 perspective of a former laboratory director.

16 As an ISO 17025 accredited laboratory, we

17 were required to participated in a

18 proficiency-testing programs.

19 The EPA proficiency test is just one of

20 many proficiency tests that we are required

21 to perform. To make the comment they

22 intentionally staged the test to demonstrate

23 that variability was possible within the

24 current protocol is insulting and flies in

Page 180

1 the face of the integrity of the proficiency

2 program's intent and the credibility of the

3 laboratories required to participate.

4 A proficiency test is exactly that, you

5 don't alter your results or attempt to alter

6 your results to fit the mold. The mold is

7 developed with the entirety of the test data

8 submitted. Thank you.

9 MR. MURPHY: Thank you.

10 MR. GREEN: I just have a quick

11 question.

12 MR. MURPHY: Yes.

13 MR. GREEN: I have one question for

14 Mr. Voorhees.

15 MR. VOORHEES: Yes.

16 MR. GREEN: Could you repeat

17 your -- your second point, please, regarding

18 crib wood?

19 MR. VOORHEES: The crib fuel.

20 MR. GREEN: Yes.

21 MR. VOORHEES: What I'm stating is -- do

22 you want me to read the whole paragraph

23 again?

24 MR. GREEN: Yes, please.

Page 181

1 MR. VOORHEES: Okay. You are proposing

2 the use both crib fuel and cord wood fuel for

3 testing. In addition, you are proposing to

4 use language stating reasonable additional

5 nonbinding tests with a range of fuels for

6 additional data.

7 This would more than double the cost of

8 testing to the manufacturer not only in their

9 R & D but double the testing costs from the

10 laboratory. I say this not only for the

11 testing time but for the actual fuel

12 management of the labs.

13 We all acknowledge that cord wood

14 produces a different emission result than

15 crib fuel. I believe that we all acknowledge

16 that there is a lack of data within the use

17 of cord wood and emissions generation in

18 laboratory or real world use.

19 To require one additional test in a

20 specific category with cord wood would be

21 reasonable and would generate a valid

22 database for determining real world emissions

23 generation from a wood stove for all of us

24 involved in regulation, compliance testing
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HEARING February 26, 2014

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47 (Pages 182 to 185)

Page 182

1 and manufacturing.

2 MR. GREEN: And I had one question,

3 Ms. Alderman. The examples you gave, those

4 all involve hydronic heaters, not wood

5 stoves.

6 MS. ALDERMAN: Not -- not all of them.

7 Many of them were from hydronic heaters, but

8 there was also -- well, the last one from

9 Connecticut was from indoor wood stoves.

10 What happens is when you get more than one,

11 if you get -- in a neighborhood if you get a

12 lot of wood stoves, it becomes overwhelming.

13 And so I would say -- and -- and what we

14 hear over the phone and -- and through the

15 Internet is people with -- most of them are

16 outdoor wood furnaces, no question about it,

17 but we also get complaints from indoor wood

18 stoves and then, of course, things that we

19 can't regulate, like chimineas and pits and

20 that kind of stuff. Wood smoke is becoming,

21 you know, an enormous problem across the

22 board.

23 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much.

24 MS. ALDERMAN: Yep.

Page 183

1 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Okay, we're

2 gonna have just two more speakers before

3 lunch and that will be Joseph Seymour and

4 Richard Piroli.

5 MR. SEYMOUR: Good afternoon. I'm

6 Joe Seymour and my last name is spelled

7 S-E-Y-M-O-U-R.

8 I want to thank you for the opportunity

9 to provide comments on the EPA's proposed

10 regulations for new residential biomass

11 heating systems. VTech is a nationwide

12 industry association representing the views

13 of biomass -- biomass feed stock producers,

14 fuel refiners, appliance manufacturers,

15 vendors, non-profits, state energy and

16 environmental offices and also end users.

17 The EPA's proposed rule presents a

18 significant update from the first iteration

19 in the 1980s. During that time,

20 manufacturers both domestically and abroad

21 have introduced advanced and efficient

22 heating technologies that dramatically reduce

23 residential energy expenditures. The

24 proliferation of new technology has also seen

Page 184

1 consumers reap the additional benefits of

2 reduced emissions and ease of operation.

3 From 2000 to 2010, wood and pellet home

4 heating grew by 34 percent, faster than any

5 other of the home heating fuels including

6 solar and natural gas.

7 Residential renewable energy consumption

8 is climbing and wood is a preferred choice

9 for many consumers. VTech seeks to advance

10 the market for biomass thermal energy and

11 promote the use of high-efficiency

12 clean-burning equipment and a

13 sustainably-harvested biomass.

14 VTech feels that there is a need for

15 appropriate emissions standards and air

16 quality rules that achieve the following

17 goals; first achieved improved air quality

18 both local and global through reduced

19 greenhouse gas emissions, help consumers

20 evaluate the efficiency and efficience

21 performance of heating technologies when

22 making a purchase decision, support efficient

23 use of the locally-available, cost-effective

24 renewable energy resource that displaces

Page 185

1 fossil fuels and, finally, provides

2 manufacturers of heating equipment with clear

3 direction and a reasonable timeframe to

4 improve existing heating technology designs

5 that advance the above goals.

6 Our industry acknowledges that despite

7 great advances in clean-burning biomass

8 heating technology, there are some legacy

9 wood-heating systems installed which are

10 operated poorly and create excessive smoke

11 and generate misconceptions about today's

12 modern biomass heating industry.

13 Vitreous cleaner technology and

14 user-friendly designs, it is important that

15 the heating equipment industry has a

16 reasonable timeframe to appropriately respond

17 with new designs without incurring excessive

18 costs for testing and certification.

19 The NSPS needs to have a reasonable cost

20 implementation so as to not create a perverse

21 incentive for owners of existing inefficient

22 heating equipment to keep operating them

23 because newer, cleaner systems have become

24 too expensive for those customers to
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

48 (Pages 186 to 189)

Page 186

1 purchase. We appreciate the EPA's challenge

2 in developing a new NSPS standard due to

3 changing boiler technologies and the lack of

4 a simple comprehensive standard for equipment

5 testing and performance.

6 As each method of -- as each testing

7 method can create a significantly-different

8 emissions profile for a piece of equipment

9 depending on the appliance's intrinsic

10 design, how it's installed and how it's

11 operated.

12 We also appreciate the challenge of

13 creating a single emission rate number in

14 pounds per MM BTU that will define, quote,

15 clean heating equipment. In the coming

16 months, Vtech will provide a recommendation

17 for a test method and emission limit that

18 balances the environmental and public health

19 goals which balances the technical and

20 economic realities of the wood heating

21 appliance industry and the market for

22 consumers. In closing, I urge EPA to

23 consider the potential consequences, both

24 positive and negative, of the proposed NSPS

Page 187

1 rule.

2 Given certainty of test methods and

3 achievable compliant steps, manufacturers

4 will produce clean, efficient thermal

5 technologies that will save consumers money,

6 contribute towards cleaner air and reduce our

7 reliance on fossil fuels, however, unclear

8 rules will impede research and development,

9 slowing this market's growth and reducing the

10 jobs that come from it. Thank you.

11 MR. PIROLLI: It's Pirolli,

12 P-I-R-O-L-L-I. Good afternoon. My name is

13 Richard Pirolli. I'm the Director of the

14 Planning and Standards Division in the Bureau

15 of Air Management at the Connecticut

16 Department of Energy and Environmental

17 Protection.

18 Connecticut is a NESCAUM state and we

19 support NESCAUM's comments. I am glad to

20 have the opportunity today to highlight a

21 problem facing Connecticut citizens, namely

22 particulate matter in air toxic emissions

23 from wood stoves and hydronic heaters.

24 Because this is an ongoing environmental and

Page 188

1 public health concern in Connecticut, we are

2 pleased that EPA has proposed requirements

3 for manufacturers that will make residential

4 wood heaters, including hydronic heaters,

5 significantly cleaner.

6 In recent years in Connecticut, we have

7 had many complaints about wood smoke, mainly

8 from neighbors of people operating hydronic

9 heaters. The Bureau of Air Management has

10 received hundreds of wood smoke complaints in

11 each of several recent years.

12 While people are annoyed by the odor and

13 the visible emissions often released from

14 old, improperly operated or improperly cited

15 devices, the complainants are most concerned

16 about the adverse health effects from

17 breathing the emissions generated by these

18 devices.

19 This has resulted in numerous towns in

20 Connecticut banning these units and several

21 local health districts issuing cease and

22 desist orders for violating units. The

23 severity of the potential health affects and

24 magnitude of the population affected by wood

Page 189

1 smoke pollutants have lead health scientists

2 to conclude that exposure to wood smoke

3 should be dramatically minimal.

4 Wood smoke is comprised of numerous

5 constituents, including fine particulate

6 matter, carbon monoxide, volatile organic

7 compounds and polycyclical organic matter.

8 Excuse me. The statistics are informative.

9 In the United States, residential wood

10 combustion is estimated to result in

11 emissions of 600,000 tons of fine particulate

12 matter per year. Forty-four percent of all

13 stationary and mobile source polycyclic

14 organic matter is responsible for 25 percent

15 of all area source air toxic cancers.

16 The health impacts related to wood smoke

17 are primarily related to breathing the fine

18 particulate matter. These fine particles are

19 associated with serious cardio pulmonary

20 health outcomes and their impact is

21 particularly problematic for a large number

22 of susceptible population subgroups,

23 including young children, asthmatics, persons

24 with respiratory or heart disease, diabetics
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

49 (Pages 190 to 193)

Page 190

1 and the elderly. Connecticut continues to

2 experience wintertime exceedances of the

3 PM 2.5 national ambient air quality standard,

4 24 hour value of 35 micrograms per cubic

5 meter and did so on days in both December

6 2013 and January 2014.

7 Furthermore, in an ambient

8 air-monitoring study conducted in

9 Connecticut from September 2006 through April

10 2008 determined that wood smoke particulate

11 matter contributed significantly to the total

12 PM 2.5 during the colder winter months,

13 particularly when the meteorological

14 conditions were conducive to atmospheric

15 stability and wintertime inversions.

16 The monitored maximum monthly average of

17 wood smoke particulate matter contributions

18 to the PM 2.5 levels was 41.3 percent with

19 maximum daily and hourly contributions

20 approaching 74.3 percent and 100 percent

21 respectively. While wood stoves that are

22 EPA-certified are now available, the majority

23 of those in operation are older units with no

24 pollution control devices. Hydronic heaters

Page 191

1 are currently not required to comply with EPA

2 regulations and although many new hydronic

3 heaters comply with the EPA voluntary

4 standards, many of those in use are older,

5 dirtier units.

6 As fuel prices have risen, so have the

7 sales of wood stoves and hydronic heaters.

8 The people buying wood-burning devices

9 perceive wood as a natural resource and

10 assume they have made a cheaper cleaner and

11 more reliable energy choice.

12 Unfortunately, much still needs to be

13 done to ensure that wood burning is actually

14 clean, thus we strongly support EPA setting

15 standards that will lead to the installation

16 of new, cleaner wood-burning appliances.

17 We also note that the health benefits

18 associated with adoption of the proposed

19 regulations are valued at a much higher level

20 than the cost to manufacturer lower emitting

21 appliances. We urge expeditious adoption of

22 this proposal as one tool to address this

23 problem. While Connecticut does have some

24 concerns about the speed with which

Page 192

1 manufacturers will be required to comply with

2 the new standards, we applaud EPA for taking

3 this important step and we'll raise concerns

4 for technical comments we have in our written

5 comments.

6 While this proposal will not remove the

7 issues we face in our -- we face in enforcing

8 state and federal requirements for

9 wood-burning devices and will make -- will

10 not make immediate changes, the proposal

11 represents a crucial tool to use in building

12 a cleaner air future for Connecticut

13 citizens. Thank you.

14 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any questions

15 from the panel?

16 MR. WOOD: No.

17 MR. MURPHY: Okay. Well, it's 12:30 so

18 we're going to take our lunch break.

19 MR. GREEN: I'm sorry. Before we do

20 that, I'd like to ask Lisa Rector a

21 clarifying question.

22 AUDIENCE MEMBER: She's not in the room.

23 She's not here right now.

24 MR. GREEN: Maybe I can catch her after

Page 193

1 lunch.

2 MR. MURPHY: Okay. So we'll reconvene

3 at 2:00 p.m. We'll see you then, thanks.

4

5 (Recess taken.)

6

7 MR. MURPHY: Good afternoon. We're

8 going to get started. My name is Jim Murphy

9 and I'm from our regional administrator's

10 office here at EPA New England and I'm just

11 gonna describe the procedures we're gonna use

12 for the hearing. We have a -- a seat up

13 here.

14 We're gonna -- I was gonna call up two

15 names at a time, so those folks could come

16 in, come up, have a seat. They'll have to

17 share the microphone. If I could ask you to

18 just state your name and your affiliation

19 before you begin your testimony, and it would

20 be good to spell your last name at least for

21 the court reporter.

22 We're asking people to limit their

23 testimony to five minutes or thereabouts. I

24 have a little timer that you may glance up
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

50 (Pages 194 to 197)

Page 194

1 and see yellow or red light. It means we're

2 either getting to the end or you should wrap

3 it up.

4 The folks this morning -- I think we had

5 32 speakers this morning and I would say

6 thirty of them took their five minutes and a

7 little bit longer, so but it was we -- we

8 finished in time -- in time anyway. Anyway,

9 when the yellow light comes on, you have one

10 minute and then the red light you should try

11 to stop.

12 If you have written copies of your

13 testimony, you can give it to our staff in

14 the back at the registration table. Any

15 questions you have you can certainly ask any

16 of the staff people outside. There's

17 bathrooms right outside this door and there

18 is a -- a snack shop on the third floor but I

19 think it closes at three and then that's it.

20 So we're scheduled to go til seven. I

21 don't think we have quite that many speakers

22 but the hearing will be open til then, so

23 we're just gonna proceed with the folks who

24 we have signed up. If there's anybody here

Page 195

1 who would like to speak and hasn't registered

2 at the table, you can go outside and do that

3 and we'll accommodate you as soon as we can.

4 So the first two speakers this afternoon

5 are gonna be Ray Bonar and Barbara Allan, and

6 welcome back to the panel. I didn't

7 reintroduce them but they're the same people

8 as this morning. Are you ready? Go right

9 ahead, sir.

10 MR. BONAR: Good afternoon. My name is

11 Ray Bonar. I'm the CEO, one of the owners

12 and founders of Industrial Chimney Company.

13 Everything I have to say today applies to

14 wood burning stoves only. None of my

15 comments are intended to apply to any

16 category other wise.

17 My company is a strong supporter of the

18 EPA and its efforts to clean up the air shed.

19 We have a full-time, nine-person

20 R&D department with three professional

21 engineers, including a Phd engineer

22 completely dedicated to clean-burning

23 fireplaces. We have a large, modern, fully

24 equipped test lab with two EPA test ends. We

Page 196

1 have the technical ability, resources and

2 desire to make the cleanest-burning products

3 in the industry and you can see the results.

4 We are the only fireplace company to

5 ever win the EPA's clean air excellence award

6 and we currently manufacture five of the top

7 ten cleanest burning fireplaces accredited

8 from EPA, by the EPA. We believe that

9 investing in clean-burning technology is not

10 only good for the environment but it's good

11 for business.

12 I'm only here today because my partners

13 and I are convinced that the results put

14 forward in the proposed NSPS are incorrect.

15 They understate the impact to the industry

16 considerably and they overstate the emissions

17 reductions.

18 If we believed the EPA projections were

19 even in the ballpark then my company would

20 stand to benefit and I would have no reason

21 to be here at all. At ICC, we manufacture

22 built-in wood stoves that heat a home while

23 burning cleanly and providing a beautiful

24 fire-viewing experience. They don't look

Page 197

1 anything like the typical black box that

2 people are used to, but they are

3 EPA-certified.

4 We know that human beings are

5 genetically hard wired to love watching a

6 beautiful burning fire and nothing burns more

7 beautifully than an EPA-certified wood stove.

8 The majority of EPA stoves today are

9 purchased to be pieces of furniture,

10 installed in the living area of the house

11 where the family can enjoy a beautiful fire

12 while heating their home.

13 I don't need to tell you that people

14 love to watch a fire, you already know that.

15 This is the primary feature that

16 distinguishes a modern wood stove from the

17 other categories of biomass heaters. Why are

18 we so convinced the proposed NSPS projections

19 are incorrect?

20 The first problem is that you've chosen

21 to assume that stoves won't go up in price

22 enough to hurt demand, despite overwhelming

23 evidence to the contrary. You're wrong.

24 Assuming we can use existing technologies
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

51 (Pages 198 to 201)

Page 198

1 which is by no means certain, we estimate

2 that our stoves will go up at least seven

3 hundred dollars, this will absolutely cause

4 new sales to decrease.

5 The second problem is that most

6 EPA-certified stoves in the four gram per

7 hour range, have beautiful lazy flame

8 patterns. When you lower that number to 2.5,

9 the flames disappear considerably and at 1.5,

10 it is nothing more than a dull red glow.

11 That stove firebox on the right has a

12 full load of wood and it's been going for

13 about a half an hour and that's all you fire

14 you see. These results are consistent across

15 all current technologies.

16

17 (Whereupon, a cellphone rings.)

18

19 MS. SIMCOX: Sorry. Sorry. I thought

20 it was off.

21 MR. BONAR: I'll give you chance.

22 MR. MURPHY: That's a demonstration that

23 everyone should turn their phone off.

24 MS. SIMCOX: So sorry.

Page 199

1 MR. BONAR: Thank you for the

2 demonstration.

3 MS. SIMCOX: That's my 17-year old son.

4 MR. BONAR: The ability to heat one's

5 home and at the same time enjoy a beautiful

6 fires is one of the primary reasons people

7 buy EPA stoves. Take away a beautiful fire

8 and stove sales will decrease even more.

9 I have to say, before I say the third

10 one, that we have no problem with catalytic

11 technology and we manufacture stoves that

12 have catalytic combustors but when it comes

13 to fire-viewing, the third problem with a

14 catalytic stove is you can greatly improve

15 the fire-viewing experience by simply opening

16 the bypass.

17 Once a bypass is open, emissions revert

18 to pre-EPA levels. A two gram stove becomes

19 a twenty-gram per hour stove as it decreases

20 in emissions. The fourth problem is that my

21 engineers are unanimous that 1.3 is a

22 totally-artificial test lab number. It has

23 very little to do with stove operation in the

24 real world. Once again, emissions will be

Page 200

1 much greater than projected. You state

2 repeatedly that these new standards will have

3 no effect with respect to the existing

4 inventory of over six million dirty-burning

5 stoves, you're wrong.

6 Currently, about forty percent of new

7 stove sales are replacements. In my

8 company's case, it's almost fifty percent.

9 By increasing price and diminishing the

10 fire-viewing experience, you are removing the

11 two main incentives for people to upgrade

12 their old dirty burners.

13 Every time -- let me see if I can

14 forward my slide here. Every time an old,

15 twenty-gram per hour stove is replaced with a

16 new four-gram per hour stove, we benefit from

17 an eighty-percent emissions reduction. There

18 is a high probability that your desire for

19 marginally-greater reduction may well result

20 in increased overall emissions.

21 New stoves will become much more

22 expensive and less appealing under the new

23 NSPS. This will increase demand for old

24 dirty burners and strengthen an already

Page 201

1 vibrant market for used stoves.

2 That ebay screen shot there, if you had

3 a look this morning on eBay, there are 4,800

4 openings right now under eBay for wood

5 stoves. A big percentage of those are

6 non-certified old stoves.

7 Wood heat remains one of the most

8 effective means for poor and middle class

9 families to supplement their disposable

10 income. You are completely out of contact

11 with reality if you think these people are

12 going to lower their standard of living just

13 because you'd like them to buy a new stove

14 they won't like and can't afford.

15 My engineer partners have asked me to

16 leave you with a question. I have to preface

17 by saying I heard a number of people this

18 morning say that there are a number of stoves

19 out there right now that pass at 1.3 and I

20 think you know that's not correct with the

21 changes you've made to the test standards.

22 My engineers would like me to ask you

23 how you can justify trying to put into law a

24 standard that no known products or
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

52 (Pages 202 to 205)

Page 202

1 technologies currently meet and nobody,

2 certainly not you, has any idea can be passed

3 at all. Thank you.

4 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Ms. Allan.

5 MS. ALLAN: Good afternoon. My name is

6 Barbara Allan. I'm a resident of the

7 Commonwealth of Massachusetts and I'm

8 testifying today as a member of the

9 Massachusetts Leadership Board of the

10 American Lung Association of the Northeast.

11 I am also the retired Air and Waste

12 Planning Director of the Massachusetts

13 Department of Environmental Protection. The

14 proposed NSPS for new residential wood

15 heaters is a welcome but long overdue action

16 some sixteen years and counting.

17 New, more stringent emission control

18 limits that reflect the best demonstrated

19 technology as required by the Clean Air Act

20 are essential. The technologies to achieve

21 these levels are available. In fact, many

22 have been in use worldwide for a long time in

23 many of the wood-burning devices covered by

24 this proposal. Applying them to the US

Page 203

1 market is critical. We are faced today with

2 a growing reliance on wood for residential

3 heating for financial reasons, in light of

4 soaring home heating costs.

5 In the green market, wood is a

6 renewable. The universe of devices has

7 increased dramatically and many are used year

8 round creating year round health impacts.

9 Wood smoke is not good for anyone's health

10 but is especially harmful if you are very

11 young, elderly and/or are burdened by chronic

12 lung and/or heart diseases.

13 Wood smoke is responsible for particle

14 pollution. It's constituents include but are

15 not limited to PM2.5, carbon monoxide,

16 volatile organic compounds, polycyclic

17 aromatic hydrocarbons. Some VOCs and PAHs

18 are not only respiratory irritants but also

19 are air toxics with immunogenic and

20 carcinogenic properties.

21 According to the US EPA, health risks

22 from breathing in particulates cause

23 premature death, decreased lung function,

24 lung cancer, immunological and developmental

Page 204

1 affects and aggravated asthma.

2 Asthma New England generally and

3 Massachusetts in particular is no small

4 matter, since we have the dubious distinction

5 of having the highest asthma rates in the US

6 with some one in ten children and adults

7 having been diagnosed with this chronic lung

8 disease.

9 Research links the exposure to wood

10 smoke by those with these lung diseases to

11 increased visits to the emergency rooms and

12 hospital admissions. Residential wood smoke

13 is particularly insidious because it occurs

14 in locations where personal exposure is

15 greatest, at home and in neighborhoods where

16 people live.

17 While we may not be able to remove

18 ourselves from this pollution, our neighbors

19 use these devices, we can take steps to

20 minimize the adverse impact of their

21 emissions. Adoption of this rule without

22 delay is a major step in the right direction.

23 I also have a few specific comments for your

24 consideration. First, I do not support

Page 205

1 extending the compliance with phase-two

2 standards for wood stoves, pellet stoves and

3 hydronic heaters beyond the proposed five

4 years. Five years is even too long.

5 It is my understanding that the more

6 stringent emission limits can be met by

7 technologies already in use. Clean-burning

8 units are available in the marketplace,

9 especially in Europe. US EPA needs to

10 provide incentives to promote these units.

11 EPA should not provide an option to

12 further delay what is needed today, and I'm

13 going to go off of my comments just to remark

14 that, yes, I -- I am embarrassed that I have

15 to point to the -- to the European experience

16 and this is very reminiscent of some of the

17 battles we waged with the auto makers when we

18 were trying to get California's clean car

19 standards in place.

20 Unfortunately, it was the Japanese that

21 brought some of the technology to the market

22 that met these standards and that are now

23 considered common throughout the auto

24 marketplace. I would hope and I challenge
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

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53 (Pages 206 to 209)

Page 206

1 those manufacturers sitting here today that

2 they should try to meet those challenges,

3 rise to them, so that someday we can take the

4 leadership for wood-burning devices and that

5 we wouldn't have to always be pointing to our

6 neighbors across the great pond, but back to

7 my notes.

8 Recognize that these in-use units will

9 last for decades and continue to compromise

10 our health. We have already lost years of

11 air quality improvements that would have

12 accrued had the proposed standards been in

13 place in a more timely manner.

14 Do not further postpone these benefits

15 by further lengthening of the natural

16 turnover. Second, I am pleased that the

17 proposed rule requires efficiency testing and

18 reporting. It is my understanding that after

19 the European union placed more stringent

20 limits on wood-burning units, the average

21 efficiency of the unit has increased

22 significantly, in some cases to nearly ninety

23 percent. I would expect to see the same

24 results here. This is important to

Page 207

1 consumers. Not only will the units be

2 cleaner but also less costly to fuel.

3 Significantly more efficient units might even

4 provide the incentive to owners of old,

5 polluting units to change out to the cleaner

6 new models, regardless of the cost.

7 Thirdly, I wholly support developing and

8 using compliance test methods that reflect

9 real world usage that ensure standard

10 compliance of the lowest and highest burn

11 rates. Use of the cord -- or cord wood in

12 the compliance tests alone -- incorporating

13 these rates and test procedures are critical

14 components of a test that better reflects

15 real world use.

16 Cord wood is used in most of these units

17 and consumers are adhering to manufacturer's

18 directions. Low and high rates -- high-rate

19 burns are not uncommon and yet produce the

20 highest emissions, depending upon the unit

21 and, in turn, the highest exposures. The

22 resulting emissions need to be compliant with

23 a more stringent emission limits. Fourth, I

24 am pleased to see that the rule does not

Page 208

1 preempt local signing requirements with

2 respect to hydronic heaters. This provision

3 must be kept in the final rule.

4 Local topography, micro meteorology and

5 proximity to other homes and structures

6 influence emissions impacts. Even the

7 cleanest units can cause problems if the unit

8 itself and the stack are not cited taking

9 these and other factors into consideration.

10 Existing high-polluting units and their

11 pollution impacts generate the most citizen

12 complaints and frustrations to the Lung

13 Association staff and state and local

14 regulators. While not in the purview of

15 NSPS, it is unfortunate that EPA cannot

16 address these existing units beyond promoting

17 change outs.

18 Their pollution continues to harm so

19 many. Thank you for the opportunity to

20 present my comments. I urge EPA to move

21 expeditiously in promulgating a final rule.

22 The monetized health benefits overwhelmingly

23 exceed the costs and, most importantly, our

24 health, our lungs, our hearts deserve cleaner

Page 209

1 air. Thank you.

2 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any questions

3 from the panel? No. Okay, thank you. The

4 next two speakers will be John Steinert and

5 Chuck Gagner.

6 MR. STEINERT: Good afternoon. My name

7 is John Steinert. I am President of Dirigo

8 Laboratories. We are one of the

9 EPA-accredited test labs located in

10 Clackamas, Oregon, and Greg and Gil have been

11 to my lab and have gotten to meet us all and

12 you are always welcome to come back.

13 Just a brief history about Dirigo

14 Laboratories. There are currently five

15 laboratories in the United States that are

16 accredited to perform testing to EPA Method

17 28. Of these five labs, three have fewer

18 than three employees and this is where we fit

19 in.

20 Dirigo was made up of me, my partner,

21 Gary, and our technician, Ben. We may even

22 be the largest of the small laboratories.

23 Dirigo received our EPA accreditation in

24 February of 2011 and, if I'm correct, we were
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1 the first independent U.S. laboratory to do

2 so in over twenty years, not an easy thing to

3 accomplish.

4 Dirigo was also unique among the smaller

5 laboratories as we have the capabilities to

6 perform testing on a full range of appliances

7 covered under the NSPS. There are two areas

8 that I would like to focus my comments on

9 today.

10 Our first set of concerns pertains to

11 how the proposed rule changes will affect

12 Dirigo Laboratories and our ability to

13 compete on an equal playing field with the

14 larger laboratories.

15 Your proposal will change the definition

16 of a certified laboratory by adding multiple

17 levels of accreditation and certifying

18 requirements that smaller laboratories like

19 Dirigo do not currently have.

20 The larger laboratories' test can

21 certify a wide range of appliances, giving

22 them the advantage of having the

23 infrastructure, personnel and accreditations

24 in place to satisfy the current proposed

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1 rules. Small laboratories like Dirigo focus

2 exclusively on residential wood-fired heating

3 appliances. We test nothing else.

4 The proposed rule, as currently written,

5 will have a disproportionately negative

6 affect on the smaller laboratories. Dirigo

7 would like to work with the EPA and explore

8 ways to maintain high-quality testing and

9 reporting standards without putting the small

10 test laboratories at a competitive

11 disadvantage.

12 Dirigo has also spoken with state

13 agencies about finding ways that we can

14 satisfy these requirements outside of the ISO

15 certification process. A second part of my

16 speech today is we believe that there's a

17 false perception that the adoption of a

18 certifying body phase certification process

19 will result in improved laboratory oversight.

20 The current administrator approval

21 process will be much more effective than the

22 proposed certifying body phase process. The

23 proposed rules shift responsibility away from

24 EPA and relies too heavily on third-party

Page 212

1 certification bodies.

2 On the proposed scenario, EPA would

3 retain oversight over the program. It is

4 unclear what this oversight actually means

5 and may result in EPA becoming so far removed

6 from the approval process that they would

7 become ineffective from being able to perform

8 their regulatory obligations.

9 We could easily get to a point where the

10 people certifying reports and the people

11 overseeing the program have little to no

12 knowledge of what they are really looking at.

13 Add a layer of bureaucracy will dramatically

14 increase the amount of time it takes to get

15 an appliance listed once testing is complete.

16 It already takes anywhere from four to

17 ten weeks to get a report through and this

18 will do nothing to improve upon that. We

19 believe that EPA has a responsibility to stay

20 closely connected to certification programs

21 and shall keep with the current

22 administrative approval process. Any

23 problems with the current approval process

24 could be easily fixed. Perception that

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1 proposed process will result in increased

2 program oversight is false.

3 In conclusion, small laboratories like

4 Dirigo are critical to successful

5 implementation of the NSPS. I have heard

6 directly from manufacturers, state regulators

7 and EPA personnel regarding their concern for

8 how these regulations could affect Dirigo

9 Laboratories.

10 Adopting additional regulatory

11 requirements that do not result in better

12 testing or more accuracy is not in anyone's

13 best interest. We would like to work with

14 EPA to foster a regulatory climate that

15 encourages all laboratories to provide

16 high-quality certification testing in a

17 competitive environment. Thank you for your

18 time.

19 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Gagner.

20 MR. GAGNER: Good afternoon. My name is

21 Chuck Gagner. I'm President and one of the

22 owners of Northwest Manufacturing,

23 Incorporated. My brothers and I started the

24 company in 1989 and have been producing wood
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1 master furnaces for about 25 years.

2 We focused on a quality product that

3 performed well and was backed by a strong

4 dealer network. Woodmaster joined the

5 outdoor hydronic heater caucus at the very

6 beginning to bring cleaner-burning hydronic

7 heaters to the market faster.

8 After many, many meetings and a huge

9 amount of testing, we agreed to a test method

10 at a number of .6 pounds per million BTU.

11 Not long after testing started with the new

12 method, some lower numbers were achieved and,

13 therefore, we were faced with a new, lower

14 number of .32.

15 Our company took a different approach to

16 bring a cleaner, proven product to the

17 market. We purchased the technology rights

18 from Solar Focus in Austria and it was not

19 cheap. The European design was similar to

20 many other European but offered three fuels

21 in one unit. It was rated one of the top

22 furnaces in Europe. After many trips to

23 Europe and large legal fees to own the

24 technology, now came the real work; changing

Page 215

1 all the manuals from German to English,

2 changing all the prints from metric to

3 standard, sourcing all the parts to make

4 safety test requirements and running

5 multiple, multiple emissions tests in our lab

6 to arrive at a .04 pounds per million BTU,

7 then came web design, brochures, dealer shows

8 and training.

9 This project was well over a million

10 dollars to get to market and our ROI is not

11 even recovering that yet. Today, we are

12 faced with a .15 to follow a .06, with a test

13 method that has four runs and two of them

14 being cold starts. We have over 100 tests

15 performed in our lab.

16 Burning cribs on a cold start is

17 impossible. If you get the crib burning, you

18 may end up with a 2.0. Cord wood, if you

19 achieve a perfect start, we can see a number

20 near .15. We have never seen a .06 on a cold

21 start. I believe it will take numerous tests

22 in the current method to make a .15. If .06

23 is passed, I don't believe I will even retest

24 these units, so the only product currently

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1 below .06 with the old test method will be

2 off the market. The second problem, and to

3 back this, our gross sales of European design

4 from our total sales is three percent. Our

5 company cannot survive on three percent.

6 To our friends in Austria, I have to say

7 as an indoor hydronic heater where the

8 furnace and the wood is warm, this product is

9 amazing and I think the best you will find.

10 As an outdoor furnace, it does not

11 perform with cord wood. The furnace becomes

12 cold between refills, the wood is cold, the

13 startups on each batch load creates smoke

14 issues. As an outdoor pellet hydronic

15 heater, this is not a problem.

16 To take the place of our traditional

17 outdoor hydronic heater, in my mind it can't

18 happen and therefore should not be considered

19 one. Throughout the past 25 years, we have

20 generated a very large, satisfied customer

21 base and have an A+ rating with the Better

22 Business Bureau. We have employed as high

23 as 120 people and we have generated sales in

24 the 40 to 50-million dollar range retail

Page 217

1 annually. EPA's push for 1.5 and then .06 I

2 believe will kill this industry.

3 Rural America has been dependent on this

4 safe, affordable heat for many years. I

5 believe .32 pounds per million BTU is a very

6 clean number and should stop there. Thank

7 you.

8 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Okay, no

9 questions?

10 MR. WOOD: No questions.

11 MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much. The

12 next two speakers will be Peter Dircks and

13 Dan Henry.

14 MR. HENRY: Peter, I'm coming. I'm

15 bringing our ball and chain. It's EPA's and

16 industry's ball and chain in this suitcase.

17 MR. MURPHY: Okay. We're going to start

18 out with Mr. Dircks.

19 MR. DIRCKS: Good afternoon. My name is

20 Peter Dircks, D-I-R-C-K-S. I'm Vice

21 President for Hearth and Home Technologies.

22 We are headquartered in Lakeville, Minnesota

23 and are the market leader in the manufacture

24 of wood, pellet and gas-burning fireplaces,
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1 stoves and inserts. Our well-known brands

2 include Heatalator, Heat and Glow, HydraFire

3 and Helpro as well as Harmon. We employ over

4 1,200 member owners and have manufacturing

5 plants in distribution centers across seven

6 states.

7 At HHT, we believe in the importance of

8 continuous improvement of our products for

9 both end consumers and the environment and

10 are proud of our industry-leading efforts in

11 both wood and pellet stove design and all of

12 our products. We support EPA's efforts to

13 update the NSPS standards.

14 In fact, we, along with our trade

15 organization and several other manufacturers,

16 have been cooperating with EPA in the process

17 to develop more meaningful requirements, as

18 well as to improve air quality. However,

19 while we are willing to sign on to some of

20 the new proposed requirements, we are very

21 concerned about this proposal in three key

22 areas. One is we do not support the proposed

23 testing procedures or the 1.3-gram per hour

24 emission limit. Two, the economic impact of

Page 219

1 meeting future standards via increased costs

2 and an increased retail price to consumers

3 could be very high while not assuring any

4 real world clean air benefits.

5 And, three, these standards, via result

6 in cost and price increases, could have the

7 adverse affect of actually slowing clean air

8 progress by slowing down the replacement of

9 six million pre-1998 high-emission

10 appliances.

11 I'd like to explore these three points

12 further. First, the testing procedure for

13 wood stoves is not complete and precise and

14 does not reflect real world performance.

15 We're disappointed that EPA has proposed so

16 many changes to the wood stove test method

17 with no assurance these will actually improve

18 fuel performance.

19 In fact, what is being proposed is the

20 equivalent of requiring an engine that has

21 been designed to operate on gasoline, to now

22 pass new emissions requirements on diesel

23 fuel with lower emissions limits and

24 incomplete method to determine those

Page 220

1 emissions. We at HHT support the transition

2 to cord wood as the test fuel for laboratory

3 testing to more closely simulate real world

4 operation.

5 And the key to setting cord wood

6 standards is having data demonstrating what

7 is achievable and cost-effective designs.

8 Therefore, we can't support EPA's proposal of

9 setting the low 1.3-gram per hour cord

10 wood-based emission limits without this

11 workable test method or any meaningful cord

12 wood emission data.

13 Second, the cost of meeting future

14 standards for wood stoves could be extremely

15 high in both production costs and retail

16 prices to consumers for little or no benefit.

17 We reject the assertion that the proposed

18 changes will have only modest cost impacts.

19 In fact, the emission reduction cost to

20 meet these future standards could be many

21 times higher than the cost effectiveness of

22 the dollar per ton guidelines that are used

23 to evaluate most other sources of similar air

24 pollutants. Many Americans desire and rely

Page 221

1 on heating their homes with wood and pellet

2 stoves.

3 The recent shortage of propane fuel is

4 yet another example of why many consumers

5 desire these solid fuel-burning appliances.

6 Increases in cost will result in retail

7 consumer price increases, thus these stove

8 products may no longer be an attractive

9 option, especially in rural areas where these

10 stoves are needed most, thereby taking away

11 an affordable product and a renewable fuel as

12 a home-heating option for American consumers.

13 Third, these future standards could have

14 the adverse affect of slowing clean air

15 progress. Today, two-thirds or over six

16 million nationwide of all freestanding stoves

17 are pre-1988 uncertified stoves, which on a

18 national level is a major source of stove

19 wood smoke.

20 As -- as we've heard all day, simple

21 supply and demand has shown the more

22 expensive you make a product, the fewer units

23 are purchased by consumers. So, ironically,

24 by increasing the cost in retail prices of
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1 new appliances the replacement and change out

2 of high-polluting stoves will be slower, the

3 exact opposite action of what is truly

4 needed, since the best thing that can happen

5 for cleaner air right now is for one -- is

6 for every one of these stoves to get replaced

7 as quickly as possible.

8 So in sum, Hearth & Home Technologies

9 and I appreciate the opportunity to voice our

10 concerns with the language EPA is proposing

11 in this NSPS, but we would also like to

12 reiterate our desire to continue work with

13 you on developing meaningful solid fuel stove

14 emission requirements and test methods that

15 will lead to both affordable products and

16 everyone's desired result of improved air

17 quality. Thanks very much for your time.

18 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Mr. Henry.

19 MR. WOOD: Quick question. Have you

20 done testing on cord wood for your

21 EPA-certified stoves?

22 MR. DIRCKS: Yes. We are -- we are

23 looking at that right now, uh-huh.

24 MR. WOOD: Have you already done some?

Page 223

1 MR. DIRCKS: We -- we have done some

2 testing as well and we could follow-up on

3 that.

4 MR. WOOD: Yeah. If we could follow-up

5 later, I'd appreciate looking at some of that

6 data.

7 MR. DIRCKS: Absolutely.

8 MR. WOOD: Thank you. And also on the

9 change outs, the replacements, we had

10 a -- someone else gave percentages for his

11 company. What percent of your product is for

12 replacement of old stoves, old

13 pre -- pre-NSPS stoves?

14 MR. DIRCKS: Yeah. We don't -- I can't

15 give you that answer today but it's something

16 we could certainly follow-up on afterward.

17 MR. WOOD: Appreciate it.

18 MR. MURPHY: Mr. Henry.

19 MR. HENRY: Well, thank you for this

20 opportunity. My name is Daniel Henry. I'm

21 from Bellevue, Washington. I'm the

22 co-founder of QuadraFire, which is the

23 largest line of the cleanest non-catalytic

24 EPA wood-burning stoves and fireplace inserts

Page 224

1 and pellet-burning appliances in the nation.

2 My contribution in developing and

3 building my company was research and

4 development and the new product design. I

5 have multiple patents for non-catalytic wood

6 and pellet-burning stoves and inserts.

7 And, after thirty years in the industry,

8 I retired but, as many do, I came back and

9 I'm now a consultant for the industry and

10 it's by G3 consulting; wonder where I got

11 that name.

12 I support EPA creating regulations to

13 reduce emissions from solid fuel-burning

14 appliances. In fact, it was the first NSPS

15 that really launched my company, my product

16 line and my career.

17 I have brought a test fuel crib to show

18 why the proposed regulations will not achieve

19 the desired results, and I'm going to explain

20 to you why that is. Testing with cribs is a

21 false predictor of real world, in-home

22 performance. We've got twenty-five years of

23 testing with cribs and we've achieved about a

24 fifty-percent reduction in emissions compared

Page 225

1 to uncertified products as evidenced by

2 institute testing results.

3 Crib fuel has no bark or noncombustible

4 residue such as dirt. Crib fuel must have a

5 very specific moisture content within a very

6 narrow range. Ninety-five percent of the

7 square-inch surface area of crib fuel is

8 exposed to the heat and flame as soon as the

9 fuel is loaded into the firebox.

10 As you can see, there's air flow and

11 every square inch is exposed as soon as it's

12 loaded in there. This requires a primary and

13 secondary combustion air to fuel ratios be

14 engineered for crib test fuel in order to

15 meet EPA's certification requirements.

16 This requires a primary and

17 secondary -- whoops, excuse me. This results

18 in a combustion system that is forced to burn

19 real world, cord wood fuel at an air

20 fuel -- air to fuel mixture that has too much

21 excess air. When cord wood is loaded into

22 the crib fuel EPA-certified non-cat wood

23 combustion device, the excess air cools the

24 flame in the firebox. Both of these are
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1 extremely detrimental to sustaining secondary

2 combustion, a requirement to maintain

3 clean-burning performance.

4 Cord wood is loaded into the stove with

5 flat surfaces against flat surfaces or a

6 mixture of split and round pieces. The cubic

7 foot load density goes up from seven pounds

8 to about ten to twelve pounds per cubic foot.

9 This greatly reduces the total surface

10 area exposed but adds total density, i.e.,

11 more to burn over a longer time at a lower

12 release of VOCs. As combustion of the cord

13 wood builds and secondary combustion starts

14 to take place, the secondary combustion

15 becomes unstable as a result of too much air

16 to meet the rate of release of volatile

17 organic compounds, more commonly referred to

18 as VOCs.

19 Secondary combustion starts, then the

20 excess air is so high the unit loses stoke

21 emetic balance. The air to fuel ratio

22 becomes air rich and secondary combustion

23 falters or goes out. I suggest, due to the

24 EPA and the state air managers, that if we

Page 227

1 could increase the minimum burn rate by

2 fifteen percent, the non-cat stove would have

3 a very improved real world performance and

4 ability to overcome the use of wetter or

5 greener wood.

6 The improvement would be as a result of

7 the initial increase of the rate of release

8 of VOCs and the ability to sustain secondary

9 combustion with cord wood. This would better

10 balance the air to fuel ratio and create a

11 sustainable secondary combustion in early

12 ignition to reduce emissions.

13 Natural gas will not burn or blow up if

14 either above or below stoke emetic balance,

15 and neither will the VOCs from wood. If EPA

16 and the states would partner with industry

17 engineers, we could write a regulation that

18 would drive real world reduction of

19 emissions. We are not your enemy and you are

20 not ours.

21 You don't fully understand what we do so

22 you believe driving down the number is the

23 solution to pollution. I am here to tell you

24 you're wrong. Let us partner and we together

Page 228

1 can draft a regulation that will have

2 significant positive results in every airshed

3 across the United States.

4 In closing, the crib we are required to

5 certify with and then our products

6 actually -- actual fuel is cord wood is not

7 unlike EPA certifying an automobile engine on

8 diesel and the owner buying and using

9 gasoline. Thank you for your time.

10 And one comment I'd like to make, the

11 European technology that I've heard at dozens

12 of these meetings that I've been to, it's

13 been bally-hoed as being extremely clean,

14 it's not tested the same way we test.

15 And, when I keep hearing ninety-percent

16 efficient, that ninety-percent number is

17 lower heating value, not by our heating value

18 number that we are required in North America.

19 Thank you.

20 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any questions

21 from the panel?

22 MR. WOOD: Yes, if I may. Dan, do you

23 have some comments about your optimism for

24 the ASTM cord wood test method and how that's

Page 229

1 perceived?

2 MR. HENRY: Well, I have optimism for

3 it, Gil, but what I call -- we'll -- we'll

4 call it the off ramp from crib to the cord

5 wood is gonna require industry a lot of time

6 in a lab in Cullville. There is a modified

7 non-cat stove that will burn cord wood very

8 clean.

9 Within five minutes after loading it,

10 you have no more smoke. But when we put

11 cribs in it, it chokes, and it is a physical,

12 hands-on, real world example, why this test

13 load is not a good reference to real world

14 performance of our products.

15 And you and I have known each other for

16 years and years, and if we could sit down

17 together and develop a cord wood test method

18 that would ensure that the product going

19 forward would have much better real world

20 performance, not some 1.3 gram an hour

21 number, not some 2.5 gram an hour. I mean,

22 if it was even a five or six-gram an hour and

23 it would really do that in the field, it's

24 way better than the ten grams an hour that
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1 this test load is producing on average in

2 tests that have been compiled over the last

3 twenty years of our products that are

4 certified real clean and then real world

5 performance doesn't parallel.

6 And so it's my hope that people like me

7 that have done thousands of emission tests

8 and certified dozens of different stoves, we

9 could bring that to the table and develop a

10 meaningful cord wood emission measurement

11 method with achievable results in the near

12 term so that we could go on to improve on

13 that technology, tune the products that burn

14 cord wood extremely clean and that's what the

15 consumer would end up with in their home.

16 MR. WOOD: Our proposal agrees that, and

17 I think most of the audience agrees, going to

18 cord wood is the right answer. I think part

19 of the question is how quickly can we get

20 there, is the ASTM meeting on Tuesday likely

21 to reach agreement on an ASTM test method for

22 us to be able for manufacturers and

23 consultants like you to do some real

24 world-style testing and see what the numbers

Page 231

1 show.

2 MR. HENRY: The ASTM method

3 is -- has -- has not been utilized yet very

4 much for cord wood. I think the decision by

5 the vast majority of manufacturers in their

6 labs, it's a big unknown because I can share

7 with you that, as a consultant, I have

8 witnessed cord wood burning in EPA-certified

9 stoves that were certified number below the

10 1.3 target that the result varies from three

11 grams an hour on cord wood to thirty grams an

12 hour on that same unit, just depending on how

13 the secondary starts and whether it sustains

14 it or whether the chokes -- the stove chokes

15 in the first thirty minutes, and then it

16 takes it another thirty minutes to dig it

17 back out and get the system operating

18 properly, so it's -- it's really -- this is,

19 as I announced, this is a ball and chain.

20 It's a ball and chain that -- that

21 Oregon developed that EPA adopted that

22 industry has lived with now for thirty years

23 and it's led us down the wrong path. And, in

24 Europe, you load cord wood in your stove, you

Page 232

1 turn on the sampling equipment. They don't

2 specify a minimum burn rate.

3 Their minimum burn rate is whatever the

4 stove achieves on low, and as long as it's

5 clean, it's clean. The specification for a

6 minimum burn rate and everything other than

7 catalytic stoves, because they shine on lower

8 burns, your proposal says you test a low and

9 a high and whichever are dirtier, you do two

10 more of the average.

11 Well, you're going to hit non-cats at

12 the low burn because that's their dirty zone

13 and you're gonna wipe out the cats at the

14 high burn because that's their dirty zone,

15 and neither one of those will work for the

16 industry and, with all sincerity, I'm not

17 speaking for just me.

18 I'm speaking for hopefully our air

19 sheds, EPA, our state air people and industry

20 to develop a meaningful emission measurement

21 method that will have meaningful outcomes in

22 the real world where consumers can run their

23 stoves and not pollute.

24 MR. WOOD: Thank you, that's what we

Page 233

1 want also.

2 MR. HENRY: Thank you. You want to take

3 this ball and chain home with you?

4 MR. WOOD: Maybe you can burn it in one

5 of the stoves.

6 MR. MURPHY: The next two speakers are

7 Michael Nelson and David Mears.

8 MR. NELSON: Hello, my name is

9 Michael Nelson, N-E-L-S-O-N. I'm Residential

10 Wood Combustion Coordinator at the Minnesota

11 Pollution Control Agency or MPCA. The MPCA's

12 mission is to protect and improve the

13 environment and enhance human health.

14 We work towards the vision that

15 Minnesota's clean and clear air supports

16 healthy communities and a strong economy.

17 Michigan is known as the land of Ten Thousand

18 Lakes but, according to a recent survey, we

19 are also home to approximately 26,000

20 hydronic heaters, 31,000 hot air furnaces,

21 360,000 wood stoves and inserts and 15,000

22 pellet stoves. This is why we made our

23 effort to come here today to provide our

24 comments. At a high level, we generally
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1 support US EPA's proposed changes and

2 additions to the New Source Performance

3 Standard for Residential Wood Heaters, in

4 particular including equipment such as

5 hydronic heaters which were not previously

6 included.

7 Residential wood smoke is a health

8 concern and emissions from wood heaters are

9 emerging as an important source of air

10 emissions in our state, so much so that while

11 we still don't have state-specific

12 regulations for this equipment, a work group

13 of government, business and non-profit

14 organizations working together on emission

15 reduction projects in our state consider it a

16 priority to reduce wood smoke, including

17 emissions from residential wood heaters.

18 Minnesota currently meets the annual and

19 daily standards for fine particulates or PM

20 2.5, however, we are at risk at falling out

21 of attainment. While Minnesota and the US

22 have made great strides in reducing air

23 pollution, studies show that particulate

24 matter in ozone are still important problems

Page 235

1 for our citizens' health.

2 Even though Minnesota's air quality is

3 generally good, Minnesota's total health

4 burden of particulate and ozone pollution is

5 important, in particular the impacts of fine

6 particle pollution, even when meeting the

7 ambient air quality standards.

8 Past work to improve air quality has

9 focused on large individual sources of

10 pollution, continuing to meet the standard

11 and protecting human health will require

12 looking at individually small but

13 collectively important sources, in general

14 residential wood burning is an area that

15 appears to be increasing and is emerging as

16 one of the small but collectively important

17 sources of air emissions in Minnesota

18 communities, in particular, as emissions from

19 other sectors such as smoke stack industries

20 continue to decline.

21 Based on an early version of the 2011

22 national emissions inventory, residential

23 wood burning combustion contributes

24 approximately ten percent or 21,600 tons of

Page 236

1 the state's total PM 2.5 emissions. In 2012,

2 the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency and

3 our partners conducted a statewide survey to

4 find out how much wood was harvested and

5 burned annually for heat or pleasure in our

6 state.

7 This is part of a long-term survey

8 effort to monitor trends in use and

9 harvesting of the state's wood supply by

10 Minnesota households. The general findings

11 show that Minnesota burned approximately

12 780,000 cords of wood for residential wood

13 heaters between July 1st, 2011 and June 30th,

14 2012.

15 We support the EPA's development of

16 tighter standards and the NSPS for

17 residential wood heaters, in particular we

18 support the inclusion of equipment such as

19 hydronic heaters which were not previously

20 included in the standard but are a growing

21 source of wood smoke problems in our state.

22 In communities where wood burning is

23 closely clustered or where homes are near

24 wood-burning appliances that produce large

Page 237

1 quantities of smoke, exposure may be higher

2 or -- and a bigger concern. The majority of

3 wood smoke complaint calls the MPCA receives

4 on or about the smoke from hydronic heaters

5 and often citizens report serious concerns

6 related to their health.

7 Unlike some eastern and western states,

8 Minnesota does not have regulations specific

9 to residential wood-burning devices.

10 Instead, we rely on the current federal NSPS

11 last revised in 1988.

12 Minnesota has not developed a

13 performance standard for hydronic heaters,

14 rather has asked the US EPA to implement a

15 national performance standard for this

16 equipment. It is important to establish

17 federal emissions standards because of the

18 complexity and resources required to

19 establish limits on a state by state basis.

20 While we are still reviewing the

21 proposed regulation and its performance

22 testing requirements and intend to provide

23 further comments prior to the May 5, 2014

24 deadline, we support EPA's effort to certify
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1 wood-burning appliances in a manner that more

2 closely reflects how consumers will use the

3 equipment by transitioning the fuel test from

4 crib wood to cord wood.

5 Minnesota has a number of manufacturers

6 of these wood heaters. We are still in the

7 process of contacting them regarding the

8 proposed standards. Those we have contacted

9 indicated they are still reading the proposal

10 and initial feedback indicates there are a

11 few concerns, some of which have been

12 expressed today.

13 To move forward on voluntary emission

14 reduction efforts to reduce the impact of the

15 emissions from existent sources, we are

16 participating in US EPA's ozone and PM

17 programs and are working with Clean Air

18 Minnesota, a group of air quality leaders

19 from business, government and nonprofit

20 organizations, working together to

21 proactivity develop, fund and implement

22 projects that reduce air emissions. As

23 mentioned earlier, this work group recognizes

24 the importance and opportunity for reducing

Page 239

1 wood smoke and emissions from existing

2 residential wood heaters, with the

3 expectation that EPA moves forward on

4 updating the standards for new heaters.

5 Thank you for this opportunity to

6 testify. We support US EPA's moving forward

7 on development of an updated standard that

8 will result in improved health from reduced

9 exposures. We support testing that reflects

10 how the equipment will be used.

11 As we become more familiar with its

12 requirements, we intend to provide further

13 comments prior to the May 5, 2014 submittal

14 deadline.

15 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Panel,

16 questions?

17 MR. WOOD: No.

18 MR. MURPHY: Commissioner Mears.

19 MR. MEARS: Thank you. My name is

20 David Mears, M-E-A-R-S. I'm the Commissioner

21 of the Vermont Department of Environmental

22 Conservation and I'd like to especially thank

23 you for holding your hearing in Boston. I've

24 really -- I mostly just want to echo what

Page 240

1 Mr. Nelson has just testified to.

2 For the state of Vermont, we, like a lot

3 of the Northeastern states, north of New

4 England states have many of our citizens rely

5 on wood heat. It's something we frankly

6 encourage as part of our long-term energy

7 plan.

8 It's a renewable resource and wood burns

9 cleanly and efficiently, can be a very

10 cost-effective and on balance, a low-carbon

11 emitting source of energy. It's also a

12 long-standing tradition in our state and its

13 a way, frankly, that promotes our forests in

14 the state.

15 It's a way of encouraging our forest

16 land owners to keep their lands forests.

17 They are able to make revenue as a result of

18 selling wood for burning and, as a

19 consequence, helps us keep our mountains

20 green which has a whole multitude of

21 benefits: recreational, aesthetic, water

22 quality and flood protection. There's just a

23 myriad -- a number of ways in which Vermont's

24 forests are critical to our state's economy

Page 241

1 and our quality of life, and so we're

2 interested in trying to find ways to

3 encourage wood burning but also know because

4 one of my department's obligations is to

5 protect public health from air pollution.

6 We know that it presents substantial

7 risks if not done correctly and in particular

8 in the state of Vermont because we're a

9 mountainous, forested state, we have many

10 communities that are in mountain valleys in

11 which the air pollution can be trapped.

12 And there's -- it's not infrequent that

13 we have inversions that lead to the capture

14 of the smoke from wood burning that causes

15 health problems. In particular, we've done

16 some substantial monitoring in the city

17 of -- the town of Rutland and we have

18 averaged in this year about twenty micrograms

19 per cubic meter, about twice the PM 2.5

20 standard that EPA currently has twelve. And

21 we've exceeded the 24-hour standard

22 35-micrograms per liter on at least three

23 days so far this year. These are a serious

24 health concern in and of themselves and
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1 reflect the kinds of health concerns that we

2 are seeing in other mountain valley villages

3 in the state.

4 There's also studies that have been done

5 by our state alone with northeast states for

6 coordinated air use management or the NESCAUM

7 organization that have shown that in

8 particularly on the coldest days in Rutland

9 that wood smoke is -- accounts for more than

10 half of the particulate matter pollution that

11 we have in that community.

12 And while we're concerned about the

13 24-hour standard, even that standard alone

14 doesn't really capture the full health

15 impacts in our state. We have scene spikes

16 in the levels of wood smoke particulate

17 matter that are quite substantial, partly

18 because the wood -- wood smoke is in

19 proximity to -- the wood-burning devices are

20 in proximity to peoples' homes and also that

21 people are burning wood most frequently in

22 the coldest periods of the evenings and

23 mornings, exactly at the time when the

24 dispersion of air pollution as a result of

Page 243

1 climate, you know, local meteorological

2 conditions causes inversion, so we've seen

3 hourly concentrations that are over

4 90-micrograms per cubic meter in Rutland, and

5 that's consistent with studies that NESCAUM

6 has done over in the Adirondacks, so this is

7 not an insignificant health issue and so we

8 do support EPA's effort we update these

9 standards.

10 We believe that over time, as our

11 citizens update and replace their existing

12 units with the upgraded ones, we'll see a

13 substantial improvement in public health

14 issues as a consequence.

15 In Vermont, we have taken steps to adopt

16 standards ourselves and our state,

17 particularly for outdoor wood boilers which

18 up til this point have not been included in

19 the regulation. We are very strongly

20 supportive of EPA addressing that at a

21 national level. Even though we have state

22 standards, we found that some folks have

23 been able to circumvent the existing

24 standards by -- by kind of exploiting

Page 244

1 loopholes in our own state's standard and

2 frankly having one national standard will

3 guarantee that everybody has to live by the

4 same -- same limits.

5 One of the other things I'd like to note

6 and echoing, frankly, some of the industry

7 folks is we are looking carefully at what the

8 impacts are gonna be on our wood stove

9 manufacturers. We're lucky to have a couple

10 of innovative manufacturers in our state,

11 Vermont Castings and Hearthstone Stoves,

12 they're smaller manufacturers.

13 It's a substantial economic burden on

14 them to update all their models of stoves, so

15 we're trying to understand what those impacts

16 are and then if there's ways that these

17 standards could be phased in in a way that

18 would allow them to not suffer a competitive

19 disadvantage.

20 So, with that, I'm happy to answer any

21 questions but, again, conclude by saying we

22 are very supportive of EPA's effort to update

23 these long, long overdue standards. Thank

24 you.

Page 245

1 MR. MURPHY: Thank you very much. The

2 next two speakers will be Tom Berry and

3 James Hussong.

4 MR. BERRY: Good afternoon. My name is

5 Tom Berry, B-E-R-R-Y, and I am an

6 Environmental Field Representative for U.S.

7 Senator Patrick Leahy. My comments this

8 afternoon will be somewhat informal.

9 The Senator will submit formal written

10 comments, they're being completed. We'll

11 probably submit those under his signature

12 within the next week, but he did want me to

13 travel from Vermont here today to signify the

14 importance that he sees in the development

15 and implementation of these new standards.

16 Senator Leahy is the most senior member

17 of the US Senate. He's been in the Senate

18 almost as long as we've had a Clean Air Act

19 and he's always supported the EPA and the

20 implementation of strong environmental

21 quality standards. He supports the

22 development and the implementation of these

23 new standards, long past due, and applauds

24 the EPA in taking this step. Other speakers
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Page 246

1 have acknowledged the love affair that their

2 states have with wood stoves, most recently

3 David Mears from Vermont and the Senator

4 heats his farmhouse in Middlesex with a wood

5 stove.

6 Vermont has a very high, if not the

7 highest per capita, use of wood stoves and,

8 as Commissioner Mears noted, some of the

9 finest wood stoves in the world are

10 manufactured by Vermont Castings and

11 Hearthstone in Vermont, so we -- the

12 senator's state does have a love affair with

13 a wood stove, but it's a problematic love

14 affair.

15 As noted by Commissioner Mears, there

16 are significant air quality problems that

17 result in the cold climate high valleys of

18 Vermont that sometimes can set up the perfect

19 conditions for stagnant air quality and high

20 concentrations of fine particulate matter

21 with health impacts and so the senator does

22 see the importance of these new standards.

23 As have been noted by a number of the

24 industry experts here today, there are some

Page 247

1 aspects of these standards that may not

2 achieve the greatest improvement in air

3 quality as quickly as possible and so the

4 Senator's comments, when submitted, will

5 reflect a concern for standards that can be

6 achieved with units that are both affordable

7 and easy enough to operate that, in fact,

8 they are adopted by the often middle to lower

9 income rural population that makes the -- the

10 greatest use of such units.

11 They must be achievable with a

12 technology that is not easily-defeated by the

13 consumer and the implementation schedule for

14 these standards and the testing protocols

15 that are laid out have to be achievable by

16 the industry that has, in fact, moved out

17 ahead of the EPA standard with the technology

18 they're now implementing.

19 The -- the industry must be able to meet

20 the standards and have testing procedures and

21 protocols that allow that to be accomplished

22 in a way that keeps this important resource

23 available to our -- our rural populations.

24 And, with that, we'll see that we have more

Page 248

1 complete comments submitted on behalf of

2 U.S. Senator Patrick Leahy within a very

3 short period of time. Thank you.

4 MR. HUSSONG: Hello. My name is

5 James Hussong and that's H-U-S-S-O-N-G. I'm

6 the President of Kozy Heat and Fireplaces,

7 and that's Kozy with a K. Hello. My name is

8 Jim Hussong from Costar, President of Kozy

9 Heat Fireplaces and also the elected leader

10 of the H -- The Hearth, Patio & Barbecue

11 Association.

12 The most important reason that I'm here

13 today is to help represent the smaller

14 manufacturers who could not attend. Kozy

15 Heat was started like a lot of hearth

16 companies. We started back in 1976 as a

17 small manufacturers of wood heaters.

18 At one time, we made up to 5,000 wood

19 burners a year. Now, it's mostly -- we're

20 mostly known for our gas-heating appliances

21 but we still have two EPA-certified stoves.

22 There has been so many changes in the testing

23 methods that is proposed that my R & D people

24 have a hard time projecting what will it cost

Page 249

1 and, even if these ideas go through, they're

2 concerned that some of the ideas will not --

3 are not well thought out and are premature.

4 If we have to start using cord wood as

5 testing as soon as next summer -- the method

6 is not even finished yet -- then we will more

7 than double the testing and development cost,

8 even on a 4.5-grams per hour stove.

9 We're a small company and we'll have to

10 pass on these costs to our customers, and I

11 can't see how we cannot add more than at

12 least a hundred dollars per stove as it's

13 proposed. Most troubling is the net of all

14 this may not improve the quality at all.

15 We are a small -- and we are in

16 southwest Minnesota, a rural area where many

17 of the homes and the wood stoves from

18 our -- from our company or many others are

19 homemade. I think that a lot of people in my

20 area and across the country are just gonna

21 continue using the old stoves and, even more

22 likely, build their own stoves as the price

23 escalates. If I was confident that the EPA

24 did its homework and that could show me that
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Page 250

1 the new -- and that they knew for certain

2 how some of these changes would improve the

3 emissions performance of my stoves, it would

4 be easier to accept these costs.

5 But the idea of making changes that

6 haven't been proven in the field and asking

7 our customers to pay more for the new stoves

8 makes me wonder what's going on. Remember

9 that the people do not have to buy the new

10 stoves. The old stoves work and heat just

11 fine.

12 It's hard to see how these changes will

13 not clean out a lot of small manufacturers

14 such as ourselves and certainly keep other

15 small innovators from trying to get into this

16 business. I couldn't imagine trying to start

17 a new company in this business as we did back

18 in 1976.

19 I suggest that you do not adapt these

20 changes unless you have demonstrated that

21 they are -- that they will improve emissions.

22 I appreciate the opportunity to testify.

23 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Any questions?

24 The next two speakers are Representative

Page 251

1 Tim Remole and Brett Watson.

2 MR. REMOLE: I want to thank you all for

3 giving us an opportunity to come and testify

4 before you today. My name is Tim Remole, I'm

5 a State Representative from Missouri House of

6 Representatives.

7 I traveled these many miles and have

8 taken time out of my schedule because I'm

9 very concerned about the new regulations and

10 rules that EPA is considering putting in

11 place on residential wood stove

12 manufacturers.

13 Our state relies heavily, especially in

14 rural areas, on burning wood for a major heat

15 source for homes and businesses. Wood stoves

16 saves energy and money for Missourians and

17 Americans all across the country.

18 I've heard from a manufacturer in my

19 district, he lives about twenty miles from

20 me, that the regulations will put him out of

21 business. I heard the testimony on a bill

22 that I have proposed in Missouri from

23 manufacturers that most residential wood

24 stove manufacturers cannot meet phase one

Page 252

1 regulation and will go out of business, then

2 in year five it will be impossible to even

3 build a stove to meet the emission

4 requirements that you all are calling for.

5 It is clear the EPA is trying to do away

6 with wood burning in this country by

7 outlawing wood burning stoves. Many feel

8 this way. I received an e-mail

9 from -- excuse me -- an EPA testing lab that

10 states it will be impossible to build a stove

11 to meet these mandates in five years, which

12 we've heard some of that testimony just

13 today.

14 No one could believe the news when I

15 talked about it in the media. I held a

16 public meeting in our area that was well

17 attended. I asked the question how many in

18 this crowd burns wood to heat their rooms.

19 Ninety percent of the people in that room

20 raised their hands.

21 Many told me it was the only way they

22 could afford to heat their homes. When

23 propane prices soared to as much as six

24 dollars, many people went to burning wood. I

Page 253

1 could give you so many touching stories, one

2 after the other, how families use wood as

3 their source of heat for themselves and their

4 family.

5 It has been a way in America since its

6 founding and beyond. I attended an EPA

7 hearing in (inaudible) and what I heard the

8 director say in his opening remarks were

9 something he couldn't prove. He stated that

10 CO2 emission had caused natural disasters,

11 storms, hurricanes, even droughts.

12 For every scientist that says that they

13 can prove manmade climate change are a

14 scientist that can prove just the opposite.

15 I am leaving in my testimony a real truthful

16 information charts and graphs put together by

17 Dr. Anthony Lupo who is a professor at the

18 University of Missouri and a meteorologist.

19 You will find his study is most

20 revealing on the truth on climate change. He

21 states man has little or no effect on our

22 climate. We have good regulations in America

23 and we're glad that we have them and they've

24 cleaned up a lot of our -- most of our air
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1 and I am thankful for those, but what we see

2 now is just plain senseless in some areas and

3 unfounded mandates that kill jobs, hurt our

4 economy and will eventually come to homes and

5 businesses.

6 Many Americans feel the EPA will start

7 putting rules and regulations on homeowners

8 and businesses that burn wood for their

9 source of heat. Now, I am asking that the

10 EPA reconsider these harsh regulations that

11 will have adverse affect on the people of

12 this country. At least make mandates where

13 the manufacturers can at least stay in

14 business.

15 Another thing that bothers me is when I

16 looked at your information stating that who

17 would be in these regulations and rule

18 discussions. When the EPA said that

19 environmental groups would be in these

20 discussions in the rulemaking, it bothered me

21 greatly. I have dealt mainly with The Sierra

22 Club and environmentalists who have given me

23 many things or false information as truth,

24 and I have proven them wrong on different

Page 255

1 occasions, and to think that EPA is letting

2 them on this decision making here is

3 appalling to me.

4 You know, just recently John Kerry's

5 remarks on climate change last week prove

6 just how out of touch I feel he is, when he

7 said to the world how climate change is as

8 big a threat as terrorism. The Sierra Club

9 stated just last week that the earth's

10 temperature has risen 1.4 degrees Fahrenheit

11 over the past century and is projected to

12 rise another 2 to 11.5 degrees over the next

13 hundred years. This is unfounded.

14 I have other great reliable sources that

15 disagree. Dr. Lupo, in his studies, give a

16 much more convincing truth that the Earth's

17 temperature has actually risen 0.5 degrees

18 Fahrenheit and that there is no proof what it

19 will do in the next century.

20 How can we predict what it's going to do

21 in the next hundred years? Take a look at

22 Dr. Roy Spencer's websites for even more

23 truthful information. Fear mongering by

24 groups is appalling to me and I feel that

Page 256

1 this is what it is. I'm asking you to quit

2 hurting America in taking away basic

3 freedoms.

4 As leaders and people of authority, we

5 are held to a standard to help people and I

6 feel we will be held accountable for our

7 actions, for who it has been given much is to

8 be required. I am asking the EPA to

9 reconsider their plans and not to put

10 burdensome regulation on manufacturers that

11 will ultimately put them out of business.

12 And I thank you for your time and I -- I

13 do wish that you would reconsider these

14 stringent mandates that will put so many

15 businesses out in Missouri.

16 Our forestry industry said if this would

17 happen that they would lose millions of

18 dollars, and they follow loggers and they

19 clean up behind them with all the treetops

20 and cut up all those wood for firewood, and

21 eventually if we would mandate wood stoves

22 out of business, eventually it would really

23 hurt their industry as well. Thank you for

24 your time.

Page 257

1 MR. MURPHY: Mr. Watson.

2 MR. WATSON: Okay. Good afternoon,

3 ladies and gentlemen. My name is

4 Brett Watson, W-A-T-S-O-N. I'm a resident of

5 Yarmouth, Maine and I am part of the

6 ownership group of and President of Jotul

7 North America.

8 After briefly introducing Jotul to you,

9 I'd like to describe our concerns for the

10 agency's proposal as it relates to wood

11 stoves and inserts. We have no comments on

12 other provisions of the proposal.

13 Jotul North America manufactures wood

14 stove and inserts that are manufactured in a

15 facility located in Gorham, Maine, just

16 outside of Portland. We directly employ over

17 seventy people at our Gorham facility and

18 have approximately 1,100 dealerships that

19 sell our products to the US and Canada.

20 In 2008, we were voted the best company

21 to work for in Maine. Jotul is one of the

22 leading brands in the industry, comprising an

23 estimated sixteen percent of new wood stove

24 sales in recent years. In the cast iron wood
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1 stove category alone, we are the clear market

2 leader with approximately twenty-five percent

3 (indiscernible) in the U.S.

4 Jotul has invested over two million

5 during the past fifteen years a million

6 dollars to develop our secondary burn

7 technology to maximize efficiency and

8 minimize emissions.

9 Not only do our stoves meet the existing

10 EPA standard, but they also beat the more

11 stringent Washington State standard with an

12 average of 3.5-grams per hour across our wood

13 product line, which is 53-percent cleaner

14 than the current EPA not catalytic standard

15 and 22-percent cleaner than the current

16 Washington State catalytic standard.

17 Let me turn to the real life impacts of

18 EPA's proposal, based on The Old North

19 America's more than thirty-plus years of

20 experience in the US hearth industry. First

21 and foremost, I believe EPA's current

22 proposal will devastate the wood stove

23 industry. It would put dozens of small wood

24 stove manufacturers and numerous dealers and

Page 259

1 distributors out of business. There has been

2 a lot of discussion in various media about

3 how EPA -- EPA's proposal will result in

4 cleaner stoves and cleaner air. I think this

5 is pure hokum.

6 We fully appreciate the concerns that

7 some have expressed today regarding the air

8 quality and facts of wood stoves, but don't

9 be fooled. EPA's proposal would not achieve

10 cleaner air. Despite our significant

11 investments, Jotul Stoves would not meet the

12 new EPA-proposed 1.3-grams per hour

13 standards.

14 In fact, by our information using the

15 proposed compliance algorithim, it is unknown

16 if any stoves currently on the market might

17 meet EPA's proposed phase-two limit. For

18 Jotul, meeting EPA's proposal will require a

19 huge initial investment, costs that will

20 inevitably be passed on to the consumer. It

21 will be a big challenge even for us. Many

22 stove manufacturers went out of business due

23 to the cost to meet EPA's original rule in

24 the late eighties. I am confident in

Page 260

1 predicting that, if adopted, EPA's proposal

2 will put dozens and possibly hundreds of

3 small businesses out of business.

4 I will now describe the problems with

5 the rule that I believe need further

6 attention. There are several different types

7 of wood stove technology. For example, there

8 are catalytic stoves, non-catalytic down

9 graph stoves and non-catalytic secondary burn

10 stoves with either baffles or tubes on the

11 top of the firebox.

12 Jotul Stoves use the latter, the

13 non-catalytic secondary burn technology, but

14 all types have advantages and disadvantages

15 and Jotul firmly believes that it's important

16 to develop a regulation that allows for all

17 three types of technology to continue to be

18 offered to the consumer, consumers get to

19 make the decision.

20 Currently, over 85 percent of stoves

21 shipped by manufacturers in the US are of the

22 non-catalytic type. EPA's proposal and

23 subsequent changes to test methodology would

24 eliminate from the marketplace virtually all

Page 261

1 of the stoves included in that 85-percent

2 figure. In other words, it would eliminate

3 consumer choice.

4 It is inappropriate for EPA to include

5 catalytic and non-catalytic stoves in the

6 same source category, for purposes of

7 developing this rule. As you know, Section

8 111 of the Clean Air Act provides that the

9 administrator may distinguish among classes,

10 types and sizes within categories of new

11 sources for the purposes of establishing such

12 standards.

13 Pursuant to this provision, EPA set

14 separate standards for catalytic and non

15 catalytic wood stoves in its 1988 rule and,

16 from our information, was preparing to do so

17 with this rule as recently as about a year

18 ago.

19 As another example, EPA recently set

20 NSPS standards for stationary engines. In

21 that rule, EPA established about twenty

22 different categories of stationary engines.

23 About a year ago during development of this

24 rule, EPA suddenly changed course and began
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1 targeting a single category of wood stove for

2 this rule. There's something wrong here.

3 Thus, EPA needs to establish different

4 standards for different types of stove

5 technology. Historically, EPA established

6 separate standards for catalytic and

7 non-catalytic wood stoves and seemed heading

8 in that direction. EPA is not alone. Many

9 states have recognized this distinction.

10 For example, the Washington State stove

11 standards and Maine and Massachusetts stove

12 trade-in programs, all established different

13 standards for catalytic versus non-catalytic

14 technology.

15 Our second major concern regards the

16 cost of EPA's proposal and the resulting

17 impacts on air quality and our industry.

18 Jotul estimates, and this is low compared to

19 what we've seen earlier, that it will cost

20 our company over one million dollars to

21 re-engineer our fourteen wood products that

22 go from an average of 2.5 grams per hour

23 already to 1.3. We are particularly impacted

24 because of the cost of foundry tooling as a

Page 263

1 cast iron foundry business.

2 EPA's proposal will have no meaningful

3 improvement to air quality, in fact I believe

4 the EPA's rule will have the exact opposite

5 effect. I believe new stoves will become

6 more expensive and difficult to operate, and

7 this will result in people hanging onto their

8 old stoves even longer, and that will more

9 than offset any gains from this rule.

10 From our own personal experience, we are

11 already seeing an increase in our

12 noncompliant spare parts business this

13 January. More people are turning to wood

14 burning, as we all know. Just imagine what

15 will happen when stoves become up to

16 25-percent more expensive to meet the

17 1.3-gram per hour threshold and a catalytic

18 combustor could be included.

19 For your information, everyone, we

20 already suggested to EPA to include banning

21 the sale of noncompliant wood stove's parts

22 as part of the NSPS process. We are

23 disappointed that they did not include this

24 in the rule. And, finally, 1.3-grams per

Page 264

1 hour may be achievable in the lab but

2 rhetoric useless for consumer use.

3 Historically and scientifically, stoves need

4 draft to operate efficiently.

5 If they become too complicated to

6 operate, there is less opportunity to achieve

7 a low emissions rate to clean up the

8 environment. In addition, they become so

9 complicated that the consumer circumvents the

10 optimal way of using them.

11 In closing, EPA's proposal has some

12 gauge of flaws when real world actualities

13 are considered. We believe EPA should number

14 one develop separate source categories

15 between the two technologies.

16 Washington state's standards are about

17 half of EPA's existing standards but would be

18 cost-effective to meet, would not drive small

19 wood manufacturers out of business and would

20 not result in significant stove price

21 increases that would act to cause people to

22 hold on to their older, dirtier stoves. To

23 actually improve air quality, EPA should be

24 considering requiring at least encouraging

Page 265

1 wood stove rebate programs or a prohibition

2 on the sales of non-certified wood stoves

3 such that when a residence is sold, any wood

4 stove in the house must be upgraded to an

5 EPA-certified model or a red tag.

6 As you may know, in 2013 Yodel offered

7 the first ever manufacturer-financed recycle

8 program that changed out over 1,400 stoves in

9 three months while contributing ten dollars

10 per stove to the American Lung Association.

11 And one last calculation. Let's stay

12 there's seven million dirty-burning wood

13 stoves. Let's divide that by 75,000 wood

14 stoves shipped in the US last year, pretty

15 close number. That's almost a hundred years

16 of manufacturing opportunity. That's the

17 real load-bearing -- load-bearing force,

18 changing out those dirty burners. Thank you

19 for your time.

20 MR. MURPHY: Thank you.

21 MR. GREEN: Hi. I'm sorry. I didn't

22 catch the representative's last name.

23 MR. REMOLE: Remole.

24 MR. GREEN: Remole.
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Page 266

1 MR. REMOLE: Yes.

2 MR. GREEN: Thank you, sir. How do you

3 spell that?

4 MR. REMOLE: R-E-M-O-L-E.

5 MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. The

6 next two speakers are Roger Purinton and

7 Thomas Morrissey.

8 MR. PURINTON: Good afternoon. My name

9 is Roger Purinton, P-U-R-I-N-T-O-N. I am the

10 research and development manager of Jotul

11 North America. Today, I'd like to describe

12 our concerns with this proposal as it relates

13 to wood stoves and fireplace inserts. We

14 have no comments on other provisions of the

15 proposal.

16 Jotul North America designs, tests,

17 manufacturers wood stoves and inserts at our

18 facility located in rural Maine. We have a

19 state-of-the-art R&D facility that is capable

20 of conducting in-house testing to EPA

21 regulations. Over my career, I have been

22 involved in and responsible for design and

23 certification testing over thirty different

24 wood stoves and inserts, many of which have

Page 267

1 some of the lowest certification numbers on

2 record.

3 I spent nearly twenty years in R&D at

4 Vermont Castings, another wood stove

5 manufacturer, and coming up on fifteen years

6 in R&D at Jotul. I was in R&D when the

7 original NSPS was created. America needed

8 the EPA to regulate us at that point as our

9 products were highly pollutive and thank you

10 for that.

11 As my parent company is Norwegian, I

12 have also spent time at our R&D facility in

13 Norway and I'm quite familiar with the

14 various European test methods for wood stoves

15 which I will provide insight and

16 clarification.

17 Considering my background, I feel I'm

18 well-qualified to provide comment regarding

19 testing and technology as it pertains to the

20 proposed NSPS and that is my primary focus on

21 my comments today. Also, I'd like to provide

22 that I am or have been a member of various

23 environmental advocacy groups such as

24 Appalachian Mountain Club, Green Mountain

Page 268

1 Club, Natural Parks Conservation Association,

2 Nature Conservancy and others. Environmental

3 protection is important to me, but so is a

4 common-sense approach to it.

5 The first thing I'd like to talk about

6 is test method variability. I studied the

7 test method variability which was conducted

8 by two of the most respected, knowledgeable

9 and experienced experts in the hearth product

10 industry.

11 That study clearly and compellingly

12 demonstrated the inherent variability of the

13 test method concluding that the method was

14 incapable of qualifying products to EPA's

15 proposed limits. That study was provided to

16 EPA.

17 As it stands now, the EPA essentially

18 dismissed that study and instead relied upon

19 its own very limited knowledge and input from

20 others much less experienced and qualified to

21 establish emissions limits.

22 I could stand here today and, based on

23 over three decades of experience in the

24 industry and conducting 1,000 emissions

Page 269

1 tests, I can say with full confidence that

2 what the variability study says is real and

3 will be realized.

4 The method is not capable of performing

5 to the low level EPA is proposing, so what

6 does that mean? Look at what the outcome

7 would be to manufacturers and others if EPA

8 is not taking heed of the variability aspect.

9 It could mean a series of cascading financial

10 catastrophes.

11 For example, if the manufacturer is

12 successful in obtaining certification at the

13 levels proposed for step two, they will then

14 be put at a continued very high risk of

15 failing to follow the emissions compliance

16 due to the variability.

17 Failed results will result in fewer

18 recertifications, thus promoting the

19 sales -- excuse me, thus prohibiting the

20 sales of effective models until the situation

21 is resolved, which would almost undoubtedly

22 take months, perhaps a year, perhaps longer

23 or perhaps never if not to get reinstated

24 again, due to the variability aspect.
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Page 270

1 Consequently, during that time sales

2 would be drastically impeded. The end

3 outcome could very well likely be financially

4 devastating. Companies will fail and

5 good-paying manufacturing jobs will be lost.

6 Not just manufacturing jobs would be

7 hurt, but also dealer shops and installers

8 who rely on the ready availability of those

9 products to earn a living. That is not

10 suppose to be the business-related outcome of

11 eschewed regulatory activity.

12 My second point, cord wood testing.

13 Jotul is not opposed to cord wood emissions

14 testing. It's real world, however, simply

15 said, there is no relevant database available

16 to the EPA to establish emissions limits for

17 cord wood, so any emission limits proposal at

18 this time is purely arbitrary.

19 Even with my thirty-four years

20 experience, I would not dare venture a guess

21 without the benefit of extensive testing

22 analysis of what the limit should be. Number

23 three, European technology. There is

24 information being cited by some environmental

Page 271

1 air quality and green-type advocacy groups

2 that the Europeans are technologically way

3 ahead of North America regarding emissions

4 and efficiency of wood stoves.

5 Well, that's just not the case. What

6 Europe does have, however, is a significantly

7 different testing methodology that provides

8 results, giving the impression of

9 superiority, that's about all there is to it.

10 Jotul North America actually had to

11 spend over $100,000.00 to redesign a test for

12 Jotul Norway's most successful low-emissions,

13 high-efficiency European models in order to

14 achieve Washington state-level performance.

15 This European technology wasn't even close to

16 passing here.

17 Then, even after achieving 2.6-grams per

18 hour, a very respectful number, the unit

19 still had the lowest overall heating

20 efficiency of our entire product line to

21 apply to the North American testing

22 efficiency methods. So one would think that

23 Jotul North America, having direct access to

24 European technology, would be employing it in

Page 272

1 order to gain market advantage if it was, in

2 fact, better.

3 Next, I'd like to provide a simple

4 analogy to the reality of EPA's proposal.

5 You've all heard lots of talk recently about

6 clean coal. It sounds like a great idea.

7 The fact is we could fill up all the

8 clean coal power plants we want, however,

9 until we start in sincere earnest to tear

10 down the old, dirty power plants, we'd only

11 just be fooling ourselves that the air was

12 getting any cleaner.

13 Actually, it would still be getting

14 dirtier so, in that lines -- in that analogy,

15 anyone with expectations of a new NSPS as it

16 is will make the air measurably and

17 noticeably cleaner. Before the six-million

18 old wood stoves are gone, you're simply

19 buying into an illusion.

20 My closing statement, I would say in

21 closing, however, that there are two things

22 the proposal is almost sure to accomplish,

23 the first being creating conditions that will

24 set companies up for potential financial

Page 273

1 failure, the second the enforced creation of

2 products that are priced too high to the

3 middle to lower-income folks who need and

4 value them the most, yet another financial

5 blow to small businesses in middle and

6 lower-income Americas. I very much

7 appreciate your time to let me present my

8 comments today. Thank you.

9 MR. MURPHY: Okay.

10 MR. WOOD: I've got a question, a quick

11 question, similar to the question I asked one

12 of the other manufacturers earlier. Have you

13 done cord wood testing on your EPA-certified

14 stoves?

15 MR. PURINTON: No, we did not, not

16 directly. No. We've ran -- typically on our

17 stoves we try to, of course, meet the EPA

18 standards but we also -- what we have done is

19 to effectively, you know, run loads of cord

20 wood through them to -- to look and see if

21 they do perform effectively in the field.

22 But as far as actually providing a series of

23 tests, no, we have not done that. We have

24 not also tested the new proposed ASTM method
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Page 274

1 either.

2 MR. WOOD: And then the second question

3 is similar to what I asked another

4 manufacturer. What do you think about the

5 current draft ASTM test method?

6 MR. PURINTON: I'm in favor of it.

7 MR. WOOD: Thank you.

8 MR. MURPHY: Okay, Mr. Morrissey.

9 MR. MORRISSEY: My name is

10 Thomas Morrissey, M-O-R-R-I-S-S-E-Y. I

11 represent Woodstock Soapstone Company. We're

12 a small manufacturer of wood stoves. We have

13 less than thirty employees and we're located

14 in West Lebanon, New Hampshire.

15 Woodstock Soapstone fully supports the

16 new regulations, including the two-step

17 process, the actual emissions limit for each

18 step, the collection, reporting and

19 publication of efficiency in CO data, the

20 single standard for so-called non-catalytic

21 and catalytic appliances in the new

22 definition of BSER. We also agree that the

23 health benefits of this regulation far

24 outweigh the costs. It's been interesting to

Page 275

1 watch the negotiation of this NSPS.

2 We are pleased that the EPA did not

3 yield on important issues like low burn

4 rates, test startup times and

5 reproducibility. We live in an age of

6 regulatory failure but we view this proposed

7 rule as a regulatory success which is unusual

8 today. So from our little company in the

9 hills of New Hampshire, you guys get an ata

10 boy.

11 I'd like to express -- I'd like to make

12 some comments on three different aspects of

13 the proposed rule. First, the proposed rule

14 suggests that EPA will get data not only on

15 particulate emissions but also on carbon

16 monoxide with emissions and efficiency.

17 On pages 133 and 134 of the rule, EPA

18 states that that information efficiency and

19 CO emissions would be good for consumers. We

20 agree, however, the EPA does not explicitly

21 say how it will make this information

22 available, so we have the following

23 suggestions; one, put summary data on

24 emissions efficiency and CO emissions on the

Page 276

1 permanent tag, on the -- on the tag that's

2 actually affixed to the stove.

3 Two, don't abandon the hang tag model

4 and put the same summary data on a required

5 hang tag. Other appliances and cars have

6 efficiency information clearly visible right

7 on the product. Requiring consumers to go to

8 an EPA website is probably a mistake.

9 And, third, we urge EPA to publish burn

10 rate, particulate emissions, CO emissions and

11 efficiency data for each test run on its

12 website. Currently, manufacturers make

13 wildly inflated, inaccurate and unsupportable

14 claims through BTU output and efficiency.

15 Meaningful emissions data related to

16 different burn rates is simply not available,

17 all we get is a weighted average, if you're a

18 consumer, so comparable data is important to

19 consumers and publication of this information

20 would provide consumers with useful

21 information and it might put an end to the

22 wild west of information that's out there

23 today. The second point, I would make BSER

24 and proposed phase two emissions -- this is

Page 277

1 the 1.3 that everyone's screaming about.

2 Are they achievable, the short answer is

3 yes. We welcome the implementation of a

4 single standard for all wood stoves and the

5 leveling of a competitive playing field. We

6 think emissions levels determined by BSER as

7 opposed to particular technologies is a good

8 thing.

9 EPA notes that BSR -- BSER is not

10 technology-based but rather based on

11 model-specific combinations of time,

12 temperature and turbulence, and that each

13 manufacturer has a potential myriad of

14 combinations of specific design possibilities

15 to choose from and the key differences tend

16 to be proprietary. Again, we agree.

17 In other words, various individual

18 heater designs have already demonstrated the

19 ability to achieve low emissions consistent

20 with phase two of the proposed rule, and

21 these signs are not necessarily catalytic or

22 non-catalytic. They encompass a broad

23 spectrum of individual efforts. We know that

24 the standard is achievable because we've
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Page 278

1 already achieved it with, one, catalytic

2 stoves and two new hybrid designs. We also

3 know that meeting the emissions targets can

4 be done affordable and the results are

5 reproducible from test lab to test lab.

6 At the wood stove design contest last

7 November, the president of Travis Industries,

8 who's not here today, stated that their

9 hybrid stove which has very, very high

10 performance numbers could be produced for

11 about $150.00 over the cost of a regular

12 non-catalytic stove. We agree.

13 The increase in the bill of materials

14 for making a catalytic stove to a

15 high-performance hybrid is about $150.00.

16 The improvement in efficiency is stunning

17 however. These new stoves can generate up to

18 131,000 more BTUs per day than a stove

19 operating at the default efficiency for

20 non-catalytic stoves.

21 This is, in effect, the heat from a full

22 load of wood every day for free. You have to

23 crank that into any equation and any comment

24 about the increase in costs because you're

Page 279

1 also gonna get increase in output.

2 The EPA is correct in saying that the

3 methods of achieving BSER will vary and be

4 model-specific, but we know that the standard

5 can be achieved and that it will result in

6 improved combustion efficiency and lower

7 emissions and more efficient overall

8 performance.

9 The third and last thing I'd like to

10 talk about is why certain segments of this

11 industry use catalytic stoves as a straw man.

12 You'll have to indulge me on this final

13 point, but enough has been said today that I

14 think it's appropriate to respond.

15 It's unfortunate that the industry uses

16 the terms catalytic and non-catalytic to

17 describe two classes of stoves that it

18 regulates. It's regrettable that EPA uses

19 the same terms. Non-catalytic stoves define

20 themselves by what they are not, i.e, they're

21 not catalytic. Why would a broad class of

22 appliances define themselves by a feature or

23 technology that they don't use? The name

24 tells the consumer nothing about what they do

Page 280

1 use. The term non-catalytic is pejorative.

2 A more honest name might be

3 anticatalytic. In spite of their high

4 efficiency and low-emissions, catalytic

5 stoves still serve as a straw man for the

6 anticatalytic stove manufacturers. What do I

7 mean when I use the term straw man?

8 When I use the term straw man, I'm

9 referring to a type of argument that relies

10 on misrepresentation of the facts and the

11 specifics of an issue. One theory is that

12 the term straw man originally referred to men

13 who stood outside court houses with a straw

14 in their shoe to indicate their willingness

15 to be false witness.

16 Making a successful straw man argument

17 relies on misrepresentations and an ignorant

18 audience, which in this case they're hoping

19 will be you folks. Straw man attacks can be

20 very entertaining but they're always

21 lightweight on the actual issues in play.

22 For example, there are a lot of straw

23 man attacks in political talk radio, where we

24 frequently have gross exaggerations and

Page 281

1 distortions of the facts and a gullible

2 audience that just want to believe what they

3 hear.

4 The latest straw man attack on catalytic

5 stoves is this piece of rubbish which was

6 presented to EPA in September of 2013. It

7 includes the so-called wood stove fireplace

8 emissions study by the Stevenson Company.

9 Excuse me. It has been mentioned or

10 referenced by at least four speakers today.

11 This study was produced by or rather

12 funded by seven wood stove companies, five

13 from Canada, one was Spanish and one with

14 Norwegian ownership. I find it's ironic that

15 Montreal has banned wood stoves and now we

16 have companies from Quebec attacking

17 clean-burning catalytic wood stoves in the

18 USA.

19 The so-called survey states or implies

20 that catalytic stoves are difficult to

21 operate, that catalytic stove owners don't

22 maintain their stoves, that clean catalytic

23 technology is expensive and that catalytic

24 stove owners often bypass the combustor, thus
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Page 282

1 bypassing high efficiency and throwing away

2 heat.

3 These claims were presented to EPA in

4 September 2013 in hopes that EPA would accept

5 these self-serving and false claims as true.

6 It's almost not worth rebutting, but it's

7 also not a good idea to leave attacks like

8 this unanswered.

9 MR. MURPHY: So you're gonna have to

10 wrap it up, Mr. Morrissey.

11 MR. MORRISSEY: It's gonna take me a

12 minute. Catalytic stoves are not difficult

13 to operate. Anyone who can operate a lawn

14 mower or a toaster, a microwave or a washing

15 machine can successfully operate a catalytic

16 stove. These other appliances all have more

17 controls than a catalytic stove.

18 Anyone who can learn to clean the lint

19 trap in a dryer can learn to maintain a

20 catalyst, and people who buy catalytic stoves

21 don't disengage or bypass the very thing that

22 makes them highly efficient and long-burning.

23 We serve over 60,000 catalytic stove owners

24 directly, and by directly I mean that they

Page 283

1 bought directly from us and they come to us

2 for advice and support.

3 We know for a fact that these owners do

4 not operate their stoves in a way that other

5 speakers have described. It's very

6 interesting, though, to come to these

7 meetings and find out about your own customer

8 something that you never would have

9 suspected.

10 So why are these seven foreign companies

11 sponsoring a survey making straw man attacks

12 on catalytic stoves? It's very simple. They

13 hope to secure their US market share by

14 lobbying the US EPA for an emissions standard

15 that will enshrine their anti-catalytic

16 stoves with low emissions limits.

17 The idea is that if they can discredit

18 catalytic stoves, maybe they can get a more

19 relaxed standard. We say to EPA don't buy

20 it. It's very, very entertaining but it's

21 also junk. Thank you very much.

22 MR. MURPHY: Thanks. The next two

23 speakers are going to be Mike Elliot and

24 Steve Bushway.

Page 284

1 MR. ELLIOTT: Good afternoon. My name

2 is Mike Elliott and, for the record, I'm not

3 here on behalf of any wood stove manufacturer

4 and I am not a straw man, I want to be very

5 clear about that.

6 My name is Mike Elliott and I'm the

7 owner of Central New England Chimney Sweeps.

8 I live in North Oxford, Massachusetts. I

9 service mostly southern Worcester County and

10 have been a chimney sweep for 25 years.

11 I belong to both the National and

12 Massachusetts Chimney Sweep Guild and have

13 been a certified chimney sweep by the Chimney

14 Safety Institute of America for 23 years. I

15 also served twice on the White House Chimney

16 Sweep Team, once in 2008 and 2011.

17 I work in the field as a chimney sweep

18 and my wife is the full-time office manager.

19 I also employ two part-time people. This

20 past summer I serviced my 14,000th chimney,

21 so everything I'm presenting here is from

22 what I learned in the field. I'm not happy

23 with the proposed EPA regulation of 1.3-grams

24 an hour for particulates. The technology

Page 285

1 necessary to reach these numbers won't work

2 in my area.

3 I am not a big fan of catalytic

4 technology. I am not a fan of catalytic

5 technology, based on my experience as a

6 chimney sweep. If we go outside this

7 building, we'll see many different kinds of

8 vehicles. Most of them will have catalytic

9 converters installed in them.

10 Each converter will be sized and

11 optimized for the vehicle they're in. A Ford

12 pickup truck will have a different one than a

13 Nissan Rogue. The size of the engine, the

14 various pressure at the converter determines

15 the size and shape, et cetera.

16 The converter is also downstream from

17 the engine which is at consistent temperature

18 when heated. Chimneys and their flues come

19 in all sizes and shapes. Some chimneys are

20 fifty feet high and some are ten feet high.

21 Some flues are twelve by twelve and some

22 are three inch round. Some chimneys run

23 through the middle of the home and some up

24 the side. There are many, many different
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1 sizes. Catalytic wood stoves requires a

2 chimney to draw smoke through them as opposed

3 to an engine pushing smoke through them.

4 Catalytic stove manufactures install the

5 same combustor in every stove, one size fits

6 all. Catalytic wood stoves require the

7 operator to engage the combustor after the

8 stove -- after the stove has been heated to a

9 certain temperature.

10 The smoke is then pulled in through the

11 combustor and burned one more time before

12 gases exit the flue. The combustor must be

13 hotter than the smoke to create the after

14 burn and this is where the trouble begins.

15 A catalytic stove venting into a 12-foot

16 exterior chimney with less than seasoned wood

17 will burn differently than the same

18 manufactured stove with a 25-foot interior

19 chimney that's perfectly seasoned wood and

20 some of the problems, the loss of stack

21 temperature forces the chimney to pull smoke

22 through an unheated combustor. This creates

23 havoc in the vent, creosote formation,

24 condensation in the stack. The frustrated

Page 287

1 homeowner bypasses the combustor completely.

2 This happens all the time. This nullifies

3 the clean burn. The combustor clogs with fly

4 ash and doesn't function properly.

5 This usually happens when the homeowner

6 engages the combustor too quickly. Starches

7 like newspaper or something like that, it

8 will clog. The homeowner does not perform

9 routine maintenance.

10 Some stoves are very, very easy to

11 maintain, some are not. But a lot of

12 manufacturers, they require maintenance as

13 much as once every -- every thirty days of

14 burning. Over fired combustors overheat and

15 they can damage surrounding parts.

16 And a lot of times the -- the way

17 that -- depending on which stove manufacturer

18 you buy them from, you may not notice -- you

19 may not notice this until after the -- at the

20 end of the year when you're cleaning them,

21 and then there's the mysterious back puffing.

22 And I've had catalytic stoves before and, if

23 you put wood in and you turn the air rate

24 down, sometimes you can actually get a thick

Page 288

1 smoke density in the stove or it will

2 actually flash.

3 It will actually -- you would get like a

4 small, mini explosion of smoke and it will

5 puff smoke out like almost continuously every

6 three to four minutes until an adjustment is

7 made by the owner. I feel that an extremely

8 low percentage of catalytic stove owners are

9 happy with their appliances.

10 I can't think of one customer of mine

11 who purchased another catalytic stove after

12 owning one. I cannot think of one customer

13 out of 14,000 houses that I've been into.

14 Rough numbers, I don't know, I probably have

15 about 200 customers with catalytic and

16 they're slowly fading out.

17 The current non-cat wood stove being

18 used today burn great and tend to be less

19 stress sensitive than the catalytic stoves.

20 They are more user friendly and require the

21 user to just regulate a primary air control.

22 I feel catalytic wood stoves should be

23 available and -- and they -- and they work

24 very well, but only if certain venting

Page 289

1 criteria is met. I always recommend EPA

2 approve non-catalytic wood stoves to my

3 customers. I will continue to do so as long

4 as it is allowed.

5 The EPA should come up with a more

6 realistic number than 1.3-grams per hour. I

7 think somewhere between four and 4.5 would be

8 a fair and plausible number for a

9 better-performing non-catalytic stove.

10 A good way to remove old, unlisted

11 stoves from the home would be to have them

12 red tagged by the authority having

13 jurisdiction. This could be done on every

14 real estate transaction. Fire inspectors

15 check for smoke detectors and CO detectors.

16 Why not have the solid fuel appliance checked

17 for compliance.

18 As a contractor who performs many

19 chimney relines, I always tell the homeowners

20 to update their equipment. Educate the

21 authority having jurisdiction that many of

22 these appliances require compliance. I would

23 like the EPA to stress the importance of

24 correctly burning wood. There's a lot of
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1 science and technique. People who choose not

2 to burn correctly are the ones who should be

3 punished, not the stove manufacturers.

4 In my opinion, passing the 1.3-gram

5 regulation will significantly affect my

6 business -- business's bottom line in stove

7 sales, installations and future service. And

8 I wrote this on my own free will and that's

9 just my personal opinion after 25 years of

10 service. Thank you.

11 MR. WOOD: I have a couple questions, if

12 I may.

13 MR. ELLIOTT: Yes, sir.

14 MR. WOOD: Are you planning to submit

15 official comments to the docket and, if so,

16 do you intend to include the venting criteria

17 that you suggested that we add?

18 MR. ELLIOTT: Sure, I'd be happy to.

19 MR. WOOD: I appreciate that.

20 MR. ELLIOTT: I -- actually, I did turn

21 this in at the desk. Is that what you mean?

22 MR. WOOD: No. I mean in addition to

23 that, more specific --

24 MR. ELLIOTT: Oh, sure.

Page 291

1 MR. WOOD: -- comments on vending

2 guidelines, red tags, you know, some of the

3 things that you --

4 MR. ELLIOTT: Just a -- like a -- a

5 vending guideline would be adequate stack

6 height in a chimney, especially for the

7 catalytic stove. That's --

8 MR. WOOD: Well, both.

9 MR. ELLIOTT: Right.

10 MR. WOOD: It won't affect smoke stacks.

11 MR. ELLIOTT: Right. And there's

12 not -- there's not -- I don't think there's

13 necessarily a magic number. It depends on

14 the education of or -- or the -- the person

15 running the stove, height of the stove, the

16 situation that it's in but, yes, I'll --

17 MR. WOOD: I agree with you, those are

18 important factors. If you could include that

19 in your official comments, we would

20 appreciate it. Also, talking about the

21 operator of the catalytic stove doesn't

22 necessarily know when the temperature has

23 been exceeded, one of the things we included

24 in the proposal is not just the opening for a

Page 292

1 temperature monitor but also a gauge.

2 Shouldn't that help?

3 MR. ELLIOTT: I would say if there's a

4 temperature on the catalytic combustor itself

5 and there's also an internal thermometer on

6 the smoke pipe, you should be able to

7 establish whether the combustor is working or

8 not.

9 MR. WOOD: Thank you. And then you also

10 expressed some concern about the catalyst not

11 matching the engine in the stoves. One of

12 the questions that we have had is in terms of

13 the approval of replacement catalysts.

14 Are you recommending that that catalyst

15 be for the particular stove that was

16 originally uncertified?

17 MR. ELLIOTT: Well, it's whatever the UL

18 listing is on the stove and where it's tested

19 at is -- is the required combustor.

20 MR. WOOD: Thank you. Oh, one -- I'm

21 sorry, one more.

22 MR. ELLIOTT: Sure.

23 MR. WOOD: Sorry I'm hitting you with so

24 many --

Page 293

1 MR. ELLIOTT: No, that's okay.

2 MR. WOOD: -- but -- but they're all of

3 great interest to us. In terms of certified

4 installers and requirements for maintenance,

5 what -- what are your thoughts on that?

6 MR. ELLIOTT: Well, in order to put a

7 wood stove in in Massachusetts, you have to

8 have a -- like a construction supervisor's

9 license.

10 MR. WOOD: Okay.

11 MR. ELLIOTT: But as far as the -- the

12 maintenance of the stove, I would imagine

13 that's up to the stove shop that sold it to

14 you.

15 MR. WOOD: Thank you.

16 MR. ELLIOTT: Thank you.

17 MR. WOOD: Thanks. Mr. Bushway.

18 MR. BUSHWAY: After all those questions,

19 I'm beginning to think I should have stayed a

20 chimney sweep. Good afternoon. Thank you

21 for this opportunity to address the proposed

22 New Source Performance Standard as it applies

23 to masonry heaters. My name is

24 Stephen Bushway, B-U-S-H-W-A-Y. My company,
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75 (Pages 294 to 297)

Page 294

1 Deer Hill Masonry, located in Plainfield,

2 Massachusetts has been designing and building

3 masonry heaters for 25 years. My first

4 masonry heater built was for our home, so we

5 have firsthand experience living with the

6 unique thermal comfort our hearths provide us

7 each winter.

8 As a past president and public relations

9 committee chair, I'm here on behalf MHA,

10 Board of Masonry Heater Association in North

11 America. I am honored to represent my

12 esteemed colleagues today.

13 Variations of masonry heaters have

14 existed since the Chinese and Roman empires

15 and have been widely used in northern and

16 eastern Europe since the late sixteenth

17 century, in response to dwindling forest

18 resources during the climate period known as

19 the Little Ice Age.

20 Masonry heaters are known by many names

21 and come in many shapes and sizes. The

22 principal in all is the same, to burn a

23 charge of wood in an oxygen-rich environment

24 to achieve complete combustion and to route

Page 295

1 the exhaust through a series of heat exchange

2 channels or chambers in order to extract most

3 of the fire's intense heat before it exits

4 out the chimney.

5 The resulting stores energy saturates

6 the masonry and it's released as even warmth

7 over the following 24 hours after the fire

8 has burnt itself out. They often incorporate

9 a baking oven and/or heated seating.

10 Mark Twain, while traveling throughout

11 Europe in the 1880s, said this about masonry

12 heaters, quote, all day long and until past

13 midnight, all parts of the room will be

14 delightfully warm and comfortable, it's

15 surface is not hot, you can put your hand on

16 it anywhere and not get burnt, end quote.

17 He goes on to say, quote, consider these

18 things; one firing is enough for the day, the

19 cost is next to nothing, the heat produced is

20 the same all day instead of too hot and too

21 cold lanterns. It's very important to

22 remember that masonry heaters are not

23 manufactured but are built, one brick at a

24 time factory-shaped components that are

Page 296

1 assembled on site. Emissions and heat

2 retention are essentially the same for hand

3 built and site assembled designs.

4 A masonry heater requires a full masonry

5 foundation so is not a portable appliance.

6 The inner core of the unit consists of fire

7 brick and refractory elements which warm the

8 two main parts and functions of the unit; the

9 firebox or combustion chamber and the heat

10 exchange channels.

11 Over the core and separated by an

12 expansion joint is the heater facing. The

13 choice of masonry material for the facing is

14 largely a matter of taste. Cast iron

15 hardware consists of a loading door and two

16 small doors for removing fly ash. The

17 resulting thermal mass can be in excess of

18 two tons.

19 Before the passage of this proposed

20 standard, the NSPS preamble recognized

21 masonry heaters and exempted them as, quote,

22 inherently clean-burning devices, end quote.

23 A future without EPA certification, however,

24 will limit our ability to continue building

Page 297

1 our products in some areas of the country,

2 not because of high emissions. As noted,

3 quite the opposite is true, but because

4 jurisdictions will find it to their advantage

5 to simply say EPA-approved only when

6 regulating solid fuel appliances.

7 We are, therefore, pleased to be

8 included in the NSPS because we believe our

9 products offer a sensible alternative for

10 consumers to maximize their desires to heat

11 with a renewable resource in unique and

12 creative ways, while reducing or eliminating

13 the heating portion of their carbon

14 footprint.

15 To that end, we will be submitting a

16 number of comments that are critical for our

17 ability to meet compliance with this new

18 regulation. We hope that as EPA recognizes

19 some of the unique characteristics of masonry

20 heaters that I have outlined today, you will

21 realize that some of the wood stove language

22 brought over from AAA doesn't translate. For

23 example, we need to be able to certify

24 designs of families of units and license them
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Page 298

1 for others to site-build from certified

2 plans.

3 We also need clarification on which of

4 the multiple fueling methods proposed in the

5 ASTM P28-17, including manufacturers'

6 instructions will be mandated. We support

7 the acceptance of software modeling as an

8 alternative to certification testing.

9 Our technical committee is currently

10 working on an efficiency test method that

11 works for the masonry heaters currently being

12 built in the U.S. We appreciate the

13 opportunity to work with EPA to find a way to

14 heat our homes using a renewable and

15 carbon-neutral resource with a minimum

16 overall impact to our air quality. Thank you

17 for your time.

18 MR. MURPHY: Okay. The next two

19 speakers are Bruce Poulin and Rod Tinnemore.

20 MR. POULIN: Bruce Poulin, P-O-U-L-I-N.

21 I own and operate Janco Plastic Wood Boilers

22 in Dover, New Hampshire. Part of my business

23 is selling central boiler outdoor hydronic

24 heaters. I'm here today to tell you about

Page 299

1 my own experience with the laws for hydronic

2 heaters in New Hampshire and surrounding

3 states where I do business. I do -- on the

4 EPA current issues with the NSPS proposal, I

5 know that some of the central boiler dealers

6 have similar opinions as mine and I know that

7 this issue is important to them.

8 The cost of developing, testing,

9 manufacturing and selling new clean and more

10 efficient technology -- excuse me -- usually

11 ends up costing the consumer more. When the

12 cost of the EPA qualified hydronic heaters

13 went up over the conventional wood heaters, I

14 lost a line of lower-income consumers who

15 relied on wood heat but now can't afford the

16 newest technology.

17 These consumers are still going to heat

18 with wood, using old hydronic heaters or one

19 or more indoor units because they have to

20 rely on wood heat to make ends meet.

21 Hydronic heaters are important because many

22 consumers find that as it would be impossible

23 and impractical to provide their heating

24 needs with indoor wood units, the cost of

Page 300

1 installing indoor wood heaters then repairing

2 damaged or out-of-code chimneys -- excuse

3 me -- is comparable to installing an outdoor

4 hydronic heater.

5 Many consumers make the choice of an

6 outdoor hydronic heater because it removes a

7 fire hazard from the home as well as carbon

8 monoxide buildup or oxygen depleting

9 associated with indoor heating appliance.

10 I have firsthand experience operating in

11 New Hampshire under the rules that are

12 similar to the EPA and NSPS proposal,

13 hydronic heaters on August 10th, 2008, the

14 state of New Hampshire enacted rules for

15 hydronic heaters, so New Hampshire

16 established practical emission limits and

17 installation requirements similar to the

18 model rule and rule the neighboring states.

19 New Hampshire laws contain a

20 sell-through period for in-state dealers to

21 move existing inventory of non-emission

22 qualified units. New Hampshire also enacted

23 a phase two approximately nineteen months

24 after the initial enactment. Operating under

Page 301

1 the state laws and regulations has not always

2 been easy, but EPA proposals on the NSPS

3 requirements and time lines are unreasonable

4 and will force many dealers to simply go out

5 of business.

6 EPA failure to provide for any type of

7 sell-through period like many states have,

8 even for EPA phase two qualified hydronic

9 heaters, would drastically affect my ability

10 to continue our daily business operations.

11 In order to operate my business, I need

12 to have stock that I know that I can sell in

13 a reasonable foreseeable future. In states

14 where there's no laws currently exist,

15 dealers have the ability to sell what would

16 typically be considered conventional hydronic

17 heaters or EPA phase two qualified hydronic

18 heaters.

19 However, the proposed NSPS considers

20 every hydronic heater as a conventional and

21 makes no distinction between them because I

22 understand under the NSPS proposal, neither

23 conventional nor phase two qualified hydronic

24 heaters can be sold by dealers after the
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Page 302

1 effective date.

2 Dealers in most U.S. states, however,

3 reason to stock less-expensive conventional

4 hydronic heaters, dealers in those states

5 have zero incentive to stock more expensive

6 EPA phase two qualified hydronic heaters

7 because there's no mechanism to certify them

8 in the NSPS which is really the intent of the

9 EPA.

10 Since my business is limited to selling

11 only EPA phase two qualified models, I find

12 it completely unacceptable that the EPA did

13 not establish a sell through period for all

14 EPA phase two qualified hydronic heaters and

15 provide for good faith testing using the

16 current volunteer programming test method or

17 the revised test method proposal in the NSPS

18 so that manufacturers in tests can be assured

19 of quick NSPS certification of new hydronic

20 heater designs.

21 From my experience, I know that

22 manufacturers have invested significant

23 resources and have made a commitment to the

24 emission reductions through EPA voluntary

Page 303

1 hydronic heater programs and that's requested

2 in the state laws and regulations in New

3 Hampshire and surrounding states where I do

4 business.

5 Central Boiler makes available to

6 dealers the entire line of EPA phase two

7 qualified hydronic heaters as essentially

8 replaced their entire line of conventional

9 heaters yet, under the proposed NSPS, none of

10 the phase two qualified heaters can be sold

11 as the effective date of the regulations.

12 And, in the meantime, manufacturers

13 can't retest these units using the new test

14 method because there is no assurance that the

15 proposed test method modifications would be

16 that all required in the NSPS when it becomes

17 effective.

18 Central boilers and dealers like me have

19 put more on the line since 2008 than any U.S.

20 manufacturers or importers of hydronic

21 heaters. Central boilers qualified the

22 largest number of heaters and EPA voluntary

23 emission reduction programs and they have

24 been available the longest. Central boiler

Page 304

1 has offered their own change out center

2 program which towards the purchase of cleaner

3 and more efficient E classic and maximum

4 models while at the same time implementing

5 formed use of older models that were changed

6 out.

7 Currently, New Hampshire Department of

8 Environmental Service is in the process of

9 developing a change out program. Within the

10 last four years, I have sold 21 central

11 boiler E classics, all which the EPA are

12 phase two qualified to the New Hampshire DOT

13 to heat their buildings.

14 New Hampshire DOT installed these

15 outdoor hydronic heaters to save space and to

16 use renewable fuels instead of fossil fuels

17 and they expect to save about $300,000.00 per

18 year. Consider that EPA uses the same EPA

19 phase two qualified hydronic heaters where

20 best systems of the emissions reductions has

21 justified the proposal limits and the NSPS

22 that it only makes sense that these qualified

23 units can continually be sold after the

24 effective date of the NSPS.

Page 305

1 I therefore propose that EPA immediately

2 clarify in thinking its intent to allow the

3 EPA phase-two qualified hydronic heaters to

4 be considered tested in good faith and

5 certified under the NSPS.

6 Dealers like me then could feel

7 comfortable stocking these and knowing that

8 they could be sold after the effective date

9 of the NSPS. The EPA cannot leave U.S.

10 manufacturers, dealers like me and customers

11 out in the cold. Thank you.

12 MR. TINNEMORE: Speaking of out in the

13 cold, unlike my Vermont colleagues, I wanted

14 to not thank EPA for having this meeting in

15 Boston in February. This bald head does not

16 appreciate the winds out there, and that's

17 how I'm gonna try to inject a little levity

18 so that we don't all kill each other or fall

19 asleep.

20 I'm Rod Tinnemore, T-I-N-N-E-M-O-R-E,

21 also spelled Rowdy, from the State of

22 Washington Department of Ecology, also

23 representing Puget Sound Clean Air Agency and

24 other local air agencies in the state of
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Page 306

1 Washington. We support EPA's efforts to

2 update this wood heater rule, agree that with

3 the concerns that have been voiced here that

4 an updated rule must be a win for both the

5 industry, for the consumer as well as for the

6 environment.

7 Whatever details end up in this rule, we

8 want to make sure that they're practical,

9 workable and achievable. I think that goes

10 without saying, I would hope. And as a state

11 with three of the five largest wood stove

12 manufacturers in North America, we want to be

13 clear that we're actively looking for

14 pathways to create this three-way win, I

15 think that's important.

16 The EPA proposal, at least the initial

17 standards, were met by Washington State in

18 1995. Come on you guys, catch up. And

19 eighty-plus -- eighty-plus percent of the

20 current wood stove manufacturers already make

21 or meet that standard, but despite that early

22 adoption about what is a health-based

23 standard as well as a whole suite of control

24 measures from burn bans to capacity limits

Page 307

1 and investment, I might say, for some of my

2 other colleagues of already ten million

3 dollars in change outs.

4 We still have a non-attainment area. We

5 still have issues where there are communities

6 that are being severely impacted from wood

7 snow. The other thing I would mention in all

8 of that is that unlike again some of my East

9 Coast colleagues who conveniently have their

10 wood smoking deposit in the Atlantic, we end

11 up with wintertime stagnation as well as we

12 also have mountain valleys and long periods

13 of stagnation and inversions.

14 That plus the fact that since 1970 our

15 state has more than doubled in population

16 with lots more sources for fine particle

17 pollution. As those are putting pressure on

18 us to find solutions into the future.

19 All of our agencies want a tighter

20 standard as quickly as possible, kind of goes

21 without saying. We would like to see an even

22 more rigorous step-one standard for all the

23 devices, perhaps except for masonry heaters,

24 and movement toward a tighter standard for

Page 308

1 most of the other devices as soon as

2 possible.

3 Are there going to be costs to industry,

4 yes, but I would emphasize that pollution

5 also has real costs; real costs to

6 businesses, real costs to the states

7 themselves, real costs to our elderly and our

8 children and other populations within

9 our -- within our states.

10 I'm gonna urge EPA to invest the

11 resources to effectively implement and manage

12 the rule; no surprises there. This includes

13 but is not limited to the development of

14 improved test methods that reflect real world

15 conditions, timely processing of certificates

16 for manufacturers. You see, I -- you thought

17 I would just leave you out.

18 Adequate oversight of test facilities

19 and the timely dispensing of test data to

20 support state supervision of this industry

21 sector. We have found no significant

22 differences between the maintenance

23 requirements for catalytic versus

24 non-catalytic, so don't put me in the middle

Page 309

1 of your cat fight.

2 There is no more expense also to upgrade

3 a home for a catalytic stove versus a

4 non-catalytic stove, and I'm sorry but it's

5 the state's responsibility to come up with

6 the change out money. Also, when it comes to

7 burning garbage, as was mentioned earlier,

8 it's not a right.

9 I was raised to admire thrift, but my

10 father also taught me that I had a duty of

11 care for my neighbor and that includes not

12 smoking them out and not burning garbage that

13 they can then inhale. For the record, I also

14 own and run a wood stove. I've had a wood

15 stove insert and a pellet stove in the past.

16 I split stack and cover my own wood so

17 my hands can be dirty and I have callouses to

18 prove it. I know firsthand from my past the

19 struggle between heating your own home

20 and -- effectively with wood versus keeping

21 your family warm and making a -- and making a

22 budget work, but I also know and understand

23 Dan Henry's argument that wood stoves as

24 tested with cribs do not reflect the same
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Page 310

1 emissions when they are fueled with cord wood

2 or when they have high-moisture wood or when

3 that -- and I also know that smoldering is

4 more common than not despite what's in our

5 owner's manuals.

6 I appreciate the olive branch that many

7 from industry have extended, I want to

8 acknowledge that, and I also want to

9 acknowledge back and say that our state is

10 especially interested in working with both

11 EPA and industry to find a way to improve

12 technology, to make the rule workable and to

13 find a pathway to a cleaner future that

14 provides all those wins for the interested

15 parties, and hopefully that was less than

16 five minutes.

17 MR. WOOD: It certainly was, less than

18 four.

19 MR. TINNEMORE: There you go.

20 MR. MURPHY: Any questions? Okay, thank

21 you very much. So we'll have two more

22 speakers and then we'll -- we'll take a short

23 break, and they will be Kelly Benjamin and

24 John Meeker.

Page 311

1 MR. KELLY: Good afternoon and thank you

2 for your time this afternoon. My name is

3 actually Benjamin Kelly, K-E-L-L-Y. I'm

4 with -- I'm an owner of Earth Outdoor Wood

5 Furnaces and we're a family-owned company

6 that started in 2009.

7 We currently employ about twenty people

8 and have the opportunity to inject back into

9 our community and economy approximately

10 3.2-million dollars in revenue annually. In

11 2010, we started learning about the phase two

12 program and the EPA's involvement in our

13 industry.

14 It's explored different options to

15 develop our own phase two qualified unit. We

16 met a company that develops smart controls

17 and catalyst technology for the biomass

18 energy industry.

19 In 2012, we succeeded in passing the

20 Method 28 test with the unit that was the

21 first of its kind in hydronic heaters and,

22 since then, we have been field testing and

23 slowly going to market with our Klear Sky 400

24 model. It is different in many ways but

Page 312

1 primarily in the fact that it is not a down

2 draft system. It is an updraft unit using

3 integrated catalytic technology.

4 As a small company, this process can be

5 very taxing financially and we estimate to

6 have spent approximately $250,000.00 of our

7 own money doing so. In this short amount of

8 time, we still have a long way to go to

9 recover that investment.

10 We feel fortunate to have accomplished

11 this for that investment is I know many

12 manufacturers who have spent far more than

13 that. In the rules set forth, we actually

14 meet the step one requirements.

15 This means that we would have

16 approximately six years, if the rule took

17 effect in 2015, to recover our initial

18 investment before it would be out -- outdated

19 or outlawed, as well as during this time we

20 would need to be reinvesting every profit we

21 made to develop the next generation of

22 hydronic heaters, and this brings into

23 question the viability and the future of our

24 company I feel. I would estimate that for

Page 313

1 ninety percent of the manufacturers in this

2 industry it would be next to impossible to

3 accomplish the numbers set forth in the role

4 proposed in the next eighteen months and have

5 a unit ready to go to market.

6 However, instead of shutting down

7 companies that have brought us in this

8 industry as far as we have come, I would

9 propose that the EPA should mandate the

10 current phase two standards for five years

11 and, at that time, reduce the emissions

12 numbers to the step one levels of 7.5 grams

13 per hour maximum.

14 This would allow manufacturers adequate

15 time to develop product, test and qualifying

16 and field test their units, resulting in

17 products ready for the market that would give

18 customers options and strengthen our

19 industry, also continuing to keep hydronic

20 cord wood heaters as a viable source to burn

21 renewable energy and heat homes.

22 I would also like to propose -- propose

23 that it be set forth that for those of us

24 that have already met the step one
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Page 314

1 requirements in the near -- in the recent

2 past that our qualification be extended to

3 the full five years from the date of the

4 implementation so that we would not have to

5 reinvest in retesting our units that have

6 already met requirements until that term is

7 finished. Thank you for your time.

8 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Mr. Meeker.

9 MR. MEEKER: My name is John Meeker and

10 I'm doing business as Wood Kiln. Meeker is

11 spelled M-E-E-K-E-R.

12 I want to tell a story first. A former

13 employee is burning a wood kiln

14 prototype -- has been burning a wood kiln

15 prototype for twenty years. This is a

16 product that could not be certified.

17 It met the emissions requirement at the

18 time, but would not burn two-by-four spaced

19 an inch-and-a-half apart slowly enough to be

20 an EPA wood heater inefficiently enough to be

21 an exempt fireplace.

22 This was appealed through the legal

23 channels in the EPA and it took three years

24 and the answer I got in the end was I was

Page 315

1 trying to change the regulation and that

2 can't be done administratively, so I was

3 hoping maybe it would be done in the last

4 four years but it hasn't happened.

5 I want to continue the story here

6 though. His wood supply consists of large

7 chunks which is what the wood kiln was

8 designed to do. It is not airtight. It has

9 a large glass window and it has a large

10 baffle for secondary combustion.

11 It does not require a twenty percent

12 hold at five-percent load and twenty percent

13 is awfully hot to work with, big chunks. At

14 any rate, during a recent cold spell natural

15 gas from oil spilled in the 1960s ran out for

16 five days. Some of his neighbors had to move

17 out of their houses.

18 My friend split some logs into smaller

19 chunks and kept his house quite comfortable

20 by using the fuel size, chunk size, and I

21 think that should be a function of the

22 owner's manual and not dictated by the EPA or

23 the test method. As an example of the kind

24 of innovation that I believe the EPA should

Page 316

1 encourage, I ask you to consider a cast iron

2 stove that was purchased in 2011 for $200.00

3 to see what -- and that's new from a big box,

4 to see what the EPA meant by a single burn

5 rate appliance.

6 A similar unit was displayed at a trade

7 show in 2003 attended by the EPA. When the

8 salesman was asked why it was exempt as a

9 fireplace, he stated that the owner's manual

10 says not to close the damper while it's

11 burning.

12 When it was tested, it was not much

13 better than a fireplace. After testing, I

14 decided to make some changes, including a

15 refractive ceramic baffle to create a longer

16 flame path, primary air holes in the sides

17 below the baffle, secondary air holes -- and

18 these are holes in the side of the cast iron,

19 you just burn it in the cast iron.

20 There's no ducting and no control.

21 Secondary air blows above the baffle and a

22 fire brick lining could keep the cold bed

23 hot. The difference was amazing. It burned

24 almost as well as an EPA-certified wood

Page 317

1 heater, however no one will do anything like

2 this because it will not burn two-by-fours

3 1.5 inches apart slowly enough to be

4 certified as a wood heater, and it has a

5 damper so it's not a single-burn appliance.

6 Existing outdoor hydronic units could

7 probably be upgraded by similar fixes and

8 create manufacturing and installation jobs if

9 there was some incentive to do so. I have a

10 patent for an automatic combustion control

11 system that is essentially a triple-acting

12 damper.

13 Is has been working quite well for

14 several years. It uses dilution air to

15 reduce the grab for a slow burn and could

16 make a non-airtight device exempt as a

17 fireplace. Also, it has an adjustable stop

18 to set the minimum burn rate for a house and

19 fuel conditions.

20 When I presented to the EPA, they said

21 the hole must be plugged for testing. In

22 other words, they said that I had to modify

23 the design of the product in order to test it

24 because dilution air is illegal. They later
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Page 318

1 said that any ability to adjust the damper

2 means that it must still be tested as a wood

3 heater and achieve the required slow burn

4 with a two-by-four spaced 1.5 inches apart.

5 The EPA should also encourage innovation

6 and jobs in measuring equipment that is

7 friendly to consumers, innovators and local

8 authorities and drop their obsession with a

9 database and costly laboratory testing.

10 Thank you.

11 MR. MURPHY: Thank you. Okay, I

12 have -- what time do I have? 4:20 so we're

13 gonna take a 15-minute break so we'll

14 reconvene at 4:35.

15

16 (Recess taken.)

17

18 MR. MURPHY: Okay, so Mr. Dover.

19 MR. DOVER: Yes. Thank you for the

20 opportunity to be here today. My name is

21 Dustin Dover, D-O-V-E-R. I'm the Director of

22 Operations for AgFuel Energy Systems, a

23 wholly-owned subsidiary of MFA Oil Company, a

24 Missouri-based farmer-owned cooperative.

Page 319

1 Our core business and mission is to

2 serve the energy needs of rural America. As

3 part of the mission, AgFuel Energy Systems

4 manufactures and markets light industrial and

5 agricultural multi-fuel furnaces to customers

6 looking to reduce and stabilize their energy

7 costs.

8 As many of you here can appreciate,

9 rural America has higher energy costs for

10 businesses, manufacturing, industrial and

11 agricultural heating. Some of these policies

12 could impact many of our customers whom are

13 also our owners.

14 I'm here today because we believe the

15 NSPS standards have unintended consequences

16 of prohibiting sales of furnaces between

17 350,000 BTUs and 1.5 million. No standards

18 are set for this size of furnaces.

19 The proposed standards, along with

20 current voluntary standards, have left most

21 people with questions regarding light

22 industrial and commercial products. Our line

23 is above the 350,000 BTU but below the 1.5,

24 thus falling into an inconsistently-regulated

Page 320

1 area. Because of our furnace's BTU rating,

2 we're not able to become EPA phase two

3 qualified, according to method 28 or the new

4 BNL testing, leaving the states that

5 currently have adopted the standards with

6 questions.

7 We request that you regulate, not on

8 residential or commercial but rather on grams

9 per BTU of fuel input. We propose that

10 these -- that the current NSPS standards be

11 expanded to include all forced air and

12 hydronic units, regardless of use, to be

13 covered under the law.

14 We feel like there's a gap in the market

15 that -- that has a -- a big gray area that

16 hasn't been answered. We manufacture and

17 sell multi-fuel units that are designed and

18 marketed for Agfuel and -- for agricultural

19 and light industrial commercial use. These

20 are farms and commercial settings of various

21 sizes and types.

22 My question for you today is where does

23 the line of residential use end and

24 agricultural or commercial begin? Does it

Page 321

1 end right after 350,000? Is there a

2 home-based business that may need 400,000

3 that therefore is not considered residential.

4 We are not able to adopt a regulatory

5 strategy to begin selling or market our

6 products in the US because there is no clear,

7 consistent plan for that gray area.

8 My testimony is pretty short because

9 I've visited with some of you guys on the

10 phone, you know, numerous times trying to

11 figure out this -- these gray areas so I

12 appreciate you taking the time and I'd love

13 to answer any questions at any time. Thank

14 you.

15 MR. WOOD: One quick point of

16 clarification. You already know but for the

17 rest of the audience, the rule is for

18 residential wood heaters and so, if there is

19 no residential use, the facility is not

20 affected.

21 If it's residential plus something else,

22 it is affected regardless of size. That's

23 the way the proposal is written, so it's

24 proposal to --
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Page 322

1 MR. DOVER: And that's our question.

2 With that, you know, our 600,000 BTU may be

3 hooked to a house and a dairy barn. You

4 won't allow us to qualify it because it's

5 over the 350,000 BTU rating, under the

6 current proposal.

7 MR. WOOD: No, let me try it again.

8 Under the voluntary program --

9 MR. DOVER: Correct.

10 MR. WOOD: -- there is a 350,000 BTU per

11 hour upper limit but, under the NSPS, there

12 is no size limit.

13 MR. DOVER: Okay.

14 MR. WOOD: So, under the NSPS,

15 regardless of size, no matter how small nor

16 how large, if some of the use is residential

17 it is affected, regardless of size as written

18 today.

19 MR. GREEN: So it's -- and we can have

20 more discussions about this offline.

21 MR. DOVER: Yeah, that's -- that's

22 helpful to an extent. Part of the -- part of

23 our concern is in the -- the states that have

24 adopted the current standards and they're

Page 323

1 looking for the new standards to govern their

2 policies that they -- you know, and like I

3 said, we have visited but some of the light

4 commercial areas they're saying you have to

5 be qualified and we're saying we can't be

6 because it's not residential under any of

7 those circumstances. So, yeah, I'd love to

8 visit more offline.

9 MR. WOOD: Yeah. Like Greg said, yes,

10 we -- we can visit that more offline and,

11 yes, you are right also that some states have

12 size limits so you're -- you're both right.

13 MR. GREEN: Well, get our contact

14 information and we'll talk and have a

15 conversation.

16 MR. DOVER: Thank you, Greg. Yes. And

17 I visited with Gil and it was very helpful so

18 thank you guys.

19 MR. MURPHY: Okay, Mr. Biber.

20 MR. BIBER: My name is Joseph Biber,

21 B-I-B-E-R. I'm the President and owner of

22 Preston Trading Post in Preston, Connecticut,

23 a major independent hearth products retailer

24 in its 39th year. We sell wood, gas and

Page 324

1 pellet-fired appliances of many major brands.

2 The wood stoves we sell are EPA certified.

3 Virtually all are non-catalytic, and I don't

4 want to get into the catalytic fight at this

5 point but that's generally my consumer

6 demand.

7 I wish to speak to proposed wood

8 standards only at this time. The old adage

9 the best is the enemy of the good may apply

10 here. Respectfully, we have concerns that

11 the proposed new test standards at 1.3 grams

12 per hour and changes to the test

13 methodologies will make worse the problem we

14 are trying -- attempting to solve, improving

15 ambient air quality.

16 This is because we believe higher prices

17 resulting from compliance would jeopardize

18 the replacement of older pre-EPA stoves in

19 the field. It's also likely to drive stove

20 market uncertainty and inflationary costs and

21 potential liability issues for the hearth

22 industry. We believe that the projected

23 increased compliance costs are seriously

24 underestimated. Testing costs alone are tens

Page 325

1 of thousands per model redesigned

2 unpredictably high and marketing the end

3 product significantly adds additional cost

4 hurdles which are multiplied in the

5 marketplace.

6 Even if the cost to manufacturers was

7 only a hundred dollars, then at least three

8 hundred dollars or more is required at retail

9 after manufacturer and reseller margins.

10 That number rises higher if the product

11 passes through distributions up to the

12 retailer so, if the initial cost to

13 manufacturers is substantially higher as we

14 believe it will prove to be, the increase at

15 retail will be proportionally higher still.

16 We believe higher costs would further

17 chill replacement of old stoves and diminish

18 the value of incentivised change out

19 programs. Perceived high costs are already a

20 major obstacle converting the six million or

21 so users of pre-EPA products to cleaner

22 technology. If old wood stoves can emit as

23 much as 60-grams per hour and inversion rates

24 are lethargic, conversion of fuel inventory
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1 should be the priority because of potentially

2 large emissions savings. Driving emissions

3 standards lower appears less-efficient and

4 counter-productive.

5 High price and installation complexity

6 only adds a higher hurdle for replacement of

7 those old stoves, cementing them in place,

8 whatever makes stoves more expensive, more

9 finicky to operate or add complexities to

10 operation, maintenance or installation and

11 adaptability undermines the potential

12 conversion of that old fleet of dirty

13 burners.

14 After all, replacing a 60-gram per hour

15 unit with a 4-gram per hour unit is a 56-gram

16 per hour emissions improvement over no

17 conversion at all. We think compliance costs

18 to manufacturers will be far more than one

19 hundred dollars, probably hundreds of

20 dollars.

21 In our experience, a high-end cast iron

22 wood stove, wood-burning stove, sold for

23 about $500.00 in 1978. That would be just

24 under $1,400.00 in today's dollars.

Page 327

1 Installation back then involved a couple

2 pieces of stove pipe connected to the

3 chimney.

4 Today, the closest equivalent models

5 sell for about $2,500.00 and usually need

6 chimney relining for about another $1,500.00,

7 for a total of about $4,000.00. That's about

8 286 percent higher. Price keeps many from

9 replacing the old stove. Excuse me.

10 There's an old retail adage that may

11 apply, to see what John Brown buys, you have

12 to see the world through John Brown's eyes.

13 John Brown has been buying relatively fewer

14 new EPA stoves.

15 Wood stove sales nationally have dropped

16 to a small fraction of 1970's levels. In our

17 store, we have seen a drop of more than

18 two-thirds the unit volume and that's with

19 pellet and gas appliances added back in.

20 Earlier this week, a person was looking

21 for parts and advice for a small

22 seventies-era product. He knew his stove was

23 pre-EPA and had recently acquired it at a

24 consignment shop. He had seen the EPA

Page 328

1 version of that model's modern relative at

2 our showroom selling for $879.00. He paid

3 $200.00 and was going through a lot of effort

4 to fix it up.

5 He had no intent to install a liner,

6 this is in Connecticut where it's presumed

7 that there is money and things are greener,

8 so price sensitivity has a lot to do with

9 replacement of the old stoves.

10 Our suggestion would be to strengthen

11 and support change outs, allow cost ability

12 that will spur price competition and develop

13 financing options. Perhaps EPA could

14 encourage national state low-energy interest

15 loans with very low interest over an extended

16 period. That might help some of those who

17 are disadvantaged and don't have the money.

18 Another issue is stove fussiness. It

19 seems axiomatic that stove designs are tuned

20 to meet test standards, their real world

21 behavior becomes more finicky, for instance,

22 the need for relining. What might be needed

23 if the standards are pushed further? It's

24 important to realize that it is the chimney

Page 329

1 that drives the stove, not the other way

2 around, and the world is full of chimneys

3 that don't deliver perfect draft.

4 Lastly, if the decision were to move

5 forward with a new standard regardless,

6 separate standards should be produced for the

7 different technologies, catalytic and

8 non-catalytic, for the same reasons they

9 were -- they were different in the existing

10 NSPS.

11 This two-tiered approach is necessary to

12 recognize differences in maintenance and

13 draft sensitivity and stimulate

14 competitiveness. We wouldn't want to see

15 monopolies created. To summarize, the bigger

16 prize in improving air quality would be to

17 accelerate replacement of those old pre-EPA

18 stoves.

19 The number of wood stoves and inserts

20 produced today is a fraction comparatively

21 and manufacturers have improved on the NSPS

22 standards through market competition. We

23 believe the cost of compliance to meet new

24 standards will chill the effort to replace
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Page 330

1 those products that are most polluting.

2 Should EPA pursue new standards, they should

3 be two-tiered as they are today. And I thank

4 you for this opportunity to present comments

5 to you today.

6 MR. CARROLL: My name is Allen Carroll,

7 I'm with Applied Ceramics and I also

8 represent the Catalytic Hearth Coalition, I'm

9 the Chairman. A little background on who I

10 am, I have a Master's degree in ceramic

11 engineering.

12 I spent more than 45 years in technical

13 ceramics and industrial processing and I

14 predate the Clean Air Act and I was able to

15 observe the automobile catalytic converter

16 competition and actually assisted in the

17 production of the original catalyst

18 substruct.

19 This obviously makes me ill and I was

20 able to start looking at the wood stove

21 industry in 1982. I've attended 32

22 consecutive HPBA shows. What this has

23 allowed me to do is be part of the early days

24 of the catalyst development in wood-burning

Page 331

1 stoves and, to be quite honest, we saw a

2 number of failures in the early years,

3 misapplication by design.

4 What we have seen in recent years is

5 significant advances in the design and use of

6 the catalyst. Today, you've heard a number

7 of points. We heard about studies which

8 really weren't studies, they were surveys of

9 people who misuse their wood-burning stoves.

10 It seemed to me that there was a bias in

11 the survey that directed the survey company

12 to look at older catalytic stoves and not

13 current catalytic designs. A lot of the

14 catalyst improvements that I mentioned were

15 not included in the stoves that they

16 referenced.

17 Conversely, manufacturers of both

18 catalytic and non-catalytic wood stoves met

19 with EPA in 2009. Gil, you may remember

20 this. We were determined to determine the

21 original reason for the bifurcation or dual

22 standard of the original NSPS and learned

23 that it was a result of a lack of information

24 on long-term emission, performance and

Page 332

1 catalytic longevity. When this group of

2 manufacturers inquired of EPA about how to

3 have the onerous standards reevaluated, they

4 were told the comprehensive study of

5 longevity might prove to be helpful.

6 With that in mind, we got together with

7 a BPA contractor, Beth Friedman, to come up

8 with a test that would not be biased, and the

9 study platform, the end result expectations,

10 et cetera, were all reviewed by Ms. Freidman.

11 And that information was then given to a

12 third-party test lab and the completed and

13 unaltered results of the study was then

14 provided by the test agency to the

15 manufacturers involved, the EPA, and the

16 results were posted on the worldwide web.

17 This study showed that catalyst having

18 burned a minimum of three cords of wood per

19 heating season for up to nine-and-a-half

20 years only burned one gram per hour higher

21 versus a new combustor when returned and

22 retested in the original certified stove

23 model. The point of the study was to see if

24 catalysts degraded significantly over time

Page 333

1 and to prove that today's well-engineered

2 catalytic stoves burn clean decades after

3 they were manufactured, so as to obtain a

4 level playing field with a single emissions

5 standard.

6 I would like to remind EPA of the

7 published white paper written by one of the

8 industry's leading experts scientist,

9 Dr. Howe. His conclusion based on this study

10 was, and I quote here, only a very modest

11 deterioration in particulate emission was

12 seen in the older catalyst as compared to a

13 new catalyst.

14 The omni test suggests that catalyst

15 degradation in a well-designed stove is not

16 an issue. As most people in this room know,

17 the EPA requires that we provide a two-year

18 free replacement on all catalysts. As a

19 catalyst manufacturer, this is very important

20 to me.

21 We have observed a dramatic reduction in

22 warranty replacements as a result of the

23 stove design changes. This has reached the

24 point that one manufacturer voluntarily
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Page 334

1 provides a 100 percent, ten-year warranty for

2 their catalytic product.

3 Also, we're part of a large number of

4 healthy catalyst replacement businesses that

5 include OEMs, manufacturers of catalysts,

6 distributors, reps and dealers all active in

7 this business.

8 Data from a network of these suppliers

9 verify unquestionably that homeowners invest

10 in the higher efficiency and cleaner

11 emissions of catalytic stoves and do, in

12 fact, maintain their appliances. My company

13 and several others will provide CBI data to

14 support this claim in the next coming weeks.

15 More than two years ago, a leading

16 catalytic wood stove manufacturer partnered

17 with OEM catalyst suppliers and, as a result,

18 OEM suppliers of catalysts are now selling

19 direct to consumer replacement catalysts.

20 This arrangement has significantly

21 reduced the replacement cost, thus

22 encouraging replacement after warranty

23 periods. Additionally, we still manufacture

24 original catalysts for hundreds of

Page 335

1 older-models catalytics. This includes

2 catalytic stove manufacturers that are no

3 longer in business and my friend a little

4 while ago said that one size fits all. My

5 plant would be thrilled with that since we

6 make one 118 different sizes.

7 We make different thicknesses. We make

8 round. We make rectangular. We make square.

9 We make mullite. We make cordierite. We

10 make stainless steel. We have different

11 coatings. One size fits all is absolutely

12 untrue.

13 Applied Ceramics also has a website

14 dedicated to helping the consumer through

15 videos, frequently asked questions concerning

16 maintenance and proper operation of their

17 catalytic stove.

18 We see catalysts as an integral part of

19 the long-range hybrid technology employed by

20 the clean-burning, sustainable wood-burning

21 residential wood heaters. Another concern is

22 the conditioning requirement stipulated in

23 the proposal. While both catalyst and

24 non-catalytic wood stoves require a

Page 336

1 conditioning period, they're not equal. The

2 condition taking place in a test agency of

3 record will cost the manufacturer of

4 catalytic stoves considerably more than

5 the -- than secondary combustion products.

6 As we see catalyst-equipped stoves'

7 manufacturers as our customers, we feel it

8 would be prudent for all technologies to have

9 the same conditioning requirements so as not

10 to discourage innovation. Also, we feel

11 strongly the option of a three-step phase in

12 standard makes the most sense.

13 We also recognize that in 1988 many

14 poorly-designed stoves were put on the market

15 without sufficient time to test for real

16 world outcome in terms of performance. No

17 one can deny wood stoves last for decades

18 and, with that said, the more time permitted

19 to allow us to work with stove manufacturers

20 to refine their products, a better end result

21 will be achieved.

22 We would like to thank EPA for

23 considering these facts and thank them for

24 their service.

Page 337

1 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, Mr. Carroll.

2 questions?

3 MR. WOOD: No, sir.

4 MR. MURPHY: The next two speakers are

5 Albert Barden and Chris Podrecca.

6 MR. BARDEN: My name is Albie Barden,

7 A-L-B-I-E, B-A-R-D-E-N. I've been building

8 masonry heaters for 37 years. I'm the

9 President of the Maine Wood Heat Company. I

10 was reading a book by Peter Clegg called

11 Energy Sources for the Home.

12 I was selling wood stoves out of my

13 living room and I turned to a page and there

14 was a picture of a Swedish tile stove,

15 kakelugn, 3D image. It was a teaching model

16 and I felt a hand, an invisible hand, come

17 down on my shoulder and it said do this.

18 I knew that there was no surviving

19 tradition of masonry heaters in North

20 America, although Mark Twain,

21 Thomas Jefferson and many others who've spent

22 time in Europe knew that it was a pretty good

23 deal, and there were retired whalers from

24 Salem, Massachusetts that tried to start
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1 building Russian fireplaces in the 1700s, but

2 nobody had succeeded in the 20th century and

3 so I said, okay, this will be my life's work.

4 So I started writing a self-published

5 newsletter, and there are copies of it out

6 there, called The Masonry Stove Guild

7 Newsletter. And, over the course of

8 two-and-a-half years, I published four issues

9 and they were distributed at no cost all over

10 the country and to other parts of the world

11 and we generated thousands of people

12 interested in the phenomenon.

13 We started getting articles written. I

14 got a contract with Rodale Press to write a

15 book, and I took a trip to Europe and started

16 seeing what was happening in Europe with a

17 little baby boy on my back. We discovered a

18 connection in Finland.

19 I'm from New England. I'm from Maine,

20 and we figured out that for this to fly in

21 North America it had to have red brick and it

22 had to have a front and center firebox.

23 Without that, there would be no chance.

24 Finland had that tradition. It had a living

Page 339

1 school tradition. It had a supplier of

2 high-quality castings and it had technical

3 information.

4 So, at one point, I made a second trip

5 to Finland, rolled in the snow naked, shook

6 hands with a manufacturer and that started a

7 36-year partnership. I'm one of the

8 co-founders of the Masonry Heater Association

9 of North America. I'm one of the co-founders

10 of the Association of Masonry Heater and Oven

11 Professionals.

12 I'm a co-founder of the Common Ground

13 Country Fair in Maine which is for organic

14 gardening and farming and sustainable living.

15 I'm a co-founder of the Needing Conference in

16 Maine which has to do with restoring

17 sustainable grain growing to Maine and

18 wood-fired ovens.

19 I'm basically committed to anything that

20 has to do with sustainability and ecological

21 soundness as my heart tells me it's true, and

22 masonry heaters have for me held that

23 magnetic passion and quality for all these

24 years. We represented a friend. I've

Page 340

1 written several books. I finished the book

2 for Rodale long after they'd given up for me

3 and self-published it.

4 I co-authored a book with my friend from

5 Finland, Heikki Hyytiainen, who has been the

6 Director of Finland's Masonry Heater

7 Organization for about seventeen years. He

8 did 1,400 tests, computer-modeled tests on

9 trying to define what the best way to burn a

10 Finnish fireplace would be.

11 We brought his heater to Wildacres and

12 we brought a second version of it to

13 Ben Myren's lab out in Washington State and

14 we built it and tested it there. It was a

15 top-down burn design with grates covering the

16 floor. We did three tests. We did the crib

17 test, the cord wood test and the Colorado

18 test.

19 In the ASTM cord wood test, it tested

20 cleaner than anything that's ever been tested

21 in North America and I believe that stands

22 still today so his research had proven

23 valuable. He continues to build these all

24 over Europe especially in eco villages and

Page 341

1 that unit sits in storage waiting to be

2 looked at again.

3 When we did the Colorado tests, we had

4 to do a -- we had to do a little bit of a

5 burn in bottom and wait for it to die out

6 before we could add the full charge, and what

7 we were left with was a boxing ring of rope

8 of coals, and so we were building a fire in

9 an impossible situation.

10 It didn't do well in that test, but in

11 the ASTM cord wood test it was burning the

12 way it was suppose to be burned and it burned

13 with flying colors.

14 I'm down to the last bit and I want to

15 try to touch your hearts, if I can. I don't

16 think there's anything broken here with

17 masonry heaters. The DEP came to me in Maine

18 and they asked me to educate them and they

19 said, In all the years that you've been

20 building heaters in Maine, there's never been

21 a single complaint about a masonry heater.

22 I end every evening of my life by going

23 outside. I'm a ordained Episcopal priest. I

24 go outside with tobacco as an offering. I
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Page 342

1 give direction and I give prayers to the four

2 directions to the sky, to the earth, and then

3 I name every tree on my property; the pine,

4 the hemlock, the spruce, the fir, the oak,

5 the maple, black walnut, the white walnut,

6 the dying elm, the alder, the sumac, the

7 hawthorn, the chestnut.

8 All the trees that are on my forty

9 acres, I name them one by one and I give them

10 thanks for all that they give me. We are a

11 consumer culture and, unless we make a shift

12 to become a conserver culture, we're all down

13 the tubes.

14 Masonry heaters, I think, are part of

15 that solution of being a conserver culture.

16 They feed the hearth, they're clean. They

17 are negative ion generators and everybody

18 that owns one loves it. Thank you for the

19 opportunity to be here. It's good to see

20 some of you again.

21 MR. PODRECCA: Hello. My name is

22 Chris Podrecca, P-O-D-R-E-C-C-A. I am the

23 owner and operator of Chimney Sweep

24 Professionals in Mattapoisett, Massachusetts.

Page 343

1 It is a family business. I took over the

2 reigns a couple years ago.

3 I'm also the Vice President of the

4 Massachusetts Chimney Sweep Guild and I'm

5 here today sort of representing them and just

6 being a presence and hearing what people have

7 to say, partly to continue to educate myself

8 on this issue.

9 I have information and facts, but I'm

10 not going to lie to anybody and say that I'm

11 an expert, so-to-speak, but I was -- while

12 I've been here, I haven't really heard

13 anybody touch on one specific part of what I

14 would consider a major part of this whole

15 proposal, and I'll sort of read my notes

16 cause it will be easier than talking off

17 the -- off the cuffs -- off the cuff.

18 I have concerns with the EPA's proposed

19 NSPS. As a self-proclaimed environmentalist

20 of sorts, I am pro-environment and in favor

21 of restrictions and rules that promote

22 environmental health and safety, which leads

23 me to what I think may be a major unforeseen

24 consequence of the EPA's NSPS. I am on the

Page 344

1 front line every day in peoples' homes and

2 you would not believe some of the things that

3 I've seen people install,

4 do -- craziness -- and you're dealing with

5 fire, so one of the things that I love about

6 what I do is that I am given the opportunity

7 to educate people on what it is that they're

8 doing with their fires inside their house.

9 Many times, that's actually more

10 important to me than performing the requested

11 sweeper service, because a lot -- you know,

12 people take for granted that they have a wood

13 stove and that it runs into a chimney and

14 that it goes up out and they just think they

15 throw wood in it and everything is -- that's

16 it.

17 So I take great -- I take great pride

18 that, when I leave a customer's home, they

19 are not only physically safer but mentally

20 safer when they operate their appliance. So

21 to tie this all together, as I've been here

22 so far there's been no mention of the system

23 for which these stoves are being installed

24 into. The exhaust system design or the

Page 345

1 chimney, you know, the vent pipe, the in-line

2 damper if there is one, the thimble, the flue

3 size, the height of the flue, all of these

4 things are in my opinion almost just as

5 important as the efficiency of the stove that

6 we're talking about.

7 Any one of these -- the aforementioned

8 components of the system, if improperly sized

9 or installed or damaged, can seriously affect

10 the efficiency and increase the pollution

11 output of the stove.

12 As before mentioned, I care about the

13 safety of my customers and I have concerns

14 that, with the increased regulation, the

15 exhaust produced will be much cooler and will

16 therefore increase the likelihood of creosote

17 formation which is what causes chimney fires.

18 My experiences is that catalytic

19 converter stoves are always filthy, that's

20 just my experience. This is often because

21 they're bypassed or improperly operated or

22 they've never been touched in -- since they

23 were installed in 1980, you know, and even

24 when they're properly operated, the cooler
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1 temperatures still create creosote.

2 So I guess what I'm getting at is that,

3 you know, can try to fix the stove -- if you

4 try to fix the stove and what you're asking

5 of the stove manufacturers without taking

6 into account the chimney system for which

7 it's tied into, you're really only addressing

8 half of the problem.

9 So, while I think that the EPA's heart

10 is in the right place and I would tend to

11 agree with you guys that, you know, improving

12 the air quality is something that I believe

13 in, I think that its mind is somewhat

14 misguided.

15 You know, we should be partners together

16 in educating the public as to how to properly

17 operate any stove, be it a new stove that,

18 you know, has incredible particulate, you

19 know, or an old stove, and so I feel like the

20 EPA should be almost partners with us and we

21 should be partners with you in educating the

22 public or a stove swap out programs. To me,

23 that would be a far more effective way of

24 tackling the issue of the air pollution

Page 347

1 created by wood stoves.

2 You know, I can't speak to specifics as

3 far as the particulates and all of that other

4 stuff involved, you know, and -- and the

5 other part of this is that the NFPA 211,

6 which is the National Fire Protection Agency,

7 they require that you have a chimney

8 inspected or swept annually anyways.

9 So whether you have a more efficient

10 burning stove, that doesn't necessarily

11 affect my live -- my livelihood, so-to-speak,

12 so that -- I just wanted to say that so that

13 you don't think I'm here sort of representing

14 the manufacturers saying my bottom line and

15 all that stuff. Well, it could be affected

16 and it may and it probably will to an extent.

17 The NFPA is our sort of standard that we

18 hold ourselves to and that we expect our

19 customers to abide by. So, in theory,

20 whatever you guys choose to do won't affect

21 what is asked of me by that standard.

22 So, in closing, I just think that that's

23 a major thing that hasn't been addressed yet

24 and I don't necessarily have the right answer

Page 348

1 for it, but it's something that should be

2 considered and -- and, you know, explored.

3 Thank you very much for your time.

4 MR. WOOD: Thank you. When you have

5 time to submit official comments to the

6 docket --

7 MR. PODRECCA: Uh-huh.

8 MR. WOOD: -- or just e-mail me with

9 ideas, I would appreciate your ideas. I -- I

10 share your concerns and I've talked with a

11 number of the manufacturers about how can we

12 best do those things.

13 MR. PODRECCA: Yeah.

14 MR. WOOD: So we have a voluntary

15 program effort back in our office to educate

16 everybody we can.

17 MR. PODRECCA: Right.

18 MR. WOOD: Okay.

19 MR. PODRECCA: That's what we do too.

20 MR. WOOD: It's a little hard for us to

21 do that from headquarters.

22 MR. PODRECCA: Yeah.

23 MR. WOOD: And, you know, Burnwise

24 is -- is the website.

Page 349

1 MR. PODRECCA: Okay.

2 MR. WOOD: EPA.GOV/Burnwise, and we also

3 try to provide tools to help encourage change

4 out programs.

5 MR. PODRECCA: Yes.

6 MR. WOOD: So we agree with you all of

7 those things are important and they all need

8 to be done. Part of our --

9 MR. PODRECCA: I agree.

10 MR. WOOD: -- marketing -- yeah, of

11 course you do and we'd agree. It needs to be

12 the right device with the right fuel operated

13 the right way; all of those are important.

14 So other ideas to help us with doing that --

15 MR. PODRECCA: Yeah.

16 MR. WOOD: -- I would be interested in

17 it. We have some reservations about what is

18 appropriate to have in a federal regulation

19 in regard to, you know, professional

20 installation and --

21 MR. PODRECCA: It could snowball, yeah.

22 MR. WOOD: -- and all of those things,

23 are we intruding on the homeowners too much,

24 even though we believe those are the --
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

89 (Pages 350 to 353)

Page 350

1 MR. PODRECCA: Right.

2 MR. WOOD: -- right things to do, so

3 ideas that could help us in that regard, I'd

4 appreciate having your official comments.

5 MR. PODRECCA: Yeah. I think that like

6 many people have sort of said that one of the

7 unforeseen things is that I think you'll be

8 turning people to using older stoves in a

9 sense but also turning people to use

10 unlicensed installers and whatnot to do

11 these, you know, whereas they do require, you

12 know, licensure in the state to do those

13 installations.

14 So that is -- those are some of the

15 unforeseen things that we don't have answers

16 for yet and we won't really have them until

17 something's implemented but I just think that

18 they need to be explored so I'll -- I'll come

19 up with some ideas and I'll -- I'll submit a

20 formal written document.

21 MR. WOOD: I appreciate that, just one

22 quick sentence.

23 MR. PODRECCA: Yeah.

24 MR. WOOD: You know, we work with

Page 351

1 industry and the local regulators in Libby,

2 Montana and one of the things we found there

3 that, correct me if I'm wrong on this, John

4 Crouch, but I think we found over fifty

5 percent of the installations were improper,

6 many of them unsafe.

7 MR. PODRECCA: I bet it's more than

8 fifty percent.

9 MR. WOOD: Or more.

10 AUDIENCE MEMBER: That was -- that was

11 in Libby.

12 MR. WOOD: In Libby. In Libby, Montana.

13 MR. PODRECCA: I wouldn't be surprised

14 if that number was higher.

15 MR. WOOD: Thank you.

16 MR. PODRECCA: Thank you.

17 MR. MURPHY: So we -- we just have two

18 speakers remaining, so I don't know if

19 there's anybody else in the room

20 who -- anybody else who plans to speak but

21 you're welcome, you can still provide your

22 name outside. We're here til 7:00.

23 We cleverly scheduled this to go til

24 7:00, so it doesn't mean everybody has to

Page 352

1 stay around because there's only two more

2 speakers but, you know, Gil and Greg are

3 gonna be here, I'm sure they'd like to have

4 conversations as they --

5 MR. WOOD: Yes.

6 MR. MURPHY: -- as they stay here for

7 another hour-and-a-half. So, anyway, the

8 last two speakers we have scheduled are Chris

9 Neufeld and Scott Nichols.

10 MR. NEUFELD: I need bifocals. My name

11 is Chris Neufeld. The spelling of my last

12 name is N-E-U-F-E-L-D. I'm the Vice

13 President of Blaze King Industries of Walla

14 Walla, Washington.

15 I would first like to thank the EPA for

16 recognizing the efforts of the catalytic wood

17 stove manufacturers who have learned to build

18 very predictable and dependable catalytic

19 wood stoves, thereby allowing for single

20 emission standard.

21 As we shared today, earlier today, that

22 was the one and only objective that the

23 Catalytic Hearth Coalition had when it met

24 with the EPA. I was honored to be present in

Page 353

1 Minnesota when the EPA and states and other

2 area resource staff met with four delegates

3 of the HPBA and two manufacturers.

4 On that day, there was a proposal for a

5 discussion to have three bins. The first two

6 bins would be standards that manufacturers

7 would need to meet over specific periods of

8 time. The third bin was a rewards bin and it

9 was said that the rewards bin suggested to be

10 1.3 grams per hour would be exactly that, a

11 rewards bin and not a standard.

12 Products that met the rewards bin would

13 then be eligible for consumer incentives and

14 programs such as stove change outs and tax

15 credits. Again, it was not suggested that a

16 low -- pardon me -- a number as low as 1.3

17 ever become a standard, and I have confirmed

18 this understanding with two other people that

19 were in the room that day.

20 Second, it was suggested that same day

21 that in addition to running the current four

22 awaited burns test, agencies begin collecting

23 cord wood data for establishing future

24 standards. With no real opportunity to have
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

90 (Pages 354 to 357)

Page 354

1 done so, I'm concerned that the draft

2 proposal sets a standard only a short five

3 years from now, should we not have the

4 emissions data prior to setting a standard

5 for 2020 or later.

6 As for the proposal -- proposed

7 testsmith that involve a worst case scenario

8 testing, I am dumbfounded. Their current

9 testsmith that uses four weighted burn

10 category -- categories best reflects the way

11 in which a wood stove is operated by a

12 consumer.

13 There's not a manufacturer in our

14 industry that would argue against the fact

15 that most consumers operate their stoves in

16 the low and medium-low burn rates for most of

17 the time. The proof of this is in the ink.

18 Every single brochure from every single

19 manufacturer for every single stove promotes

20 low burn time settings.

21 No manufacturer at all ever promotes how

22 fast they can burn the wood, so why in the

23 world would we test cord wood and then toss

24 out current weighted four run averaging in

Page 355

1 favor of a method that does not reflect real

2 world usage.

3 Blaze King will submit to EPA via

4 CBI emissions data showing that even stoves

5 that have a weighted average of less than one

6 gram per hour will struggle to meet a 1.3

7 gram per hour standard based upon worst case

8 scenario emissions testing.

9 Blaze King manufactures the largest line

10 of clean-burning catalytic stoves below 2.5

11 grams per hour. We ask you to review the

12 close -- closely the proposed standards and

13 to consider retaining the four run weighted

14 average method.

15 Also, Blaze King is concerned over the

16 lack of a suitable replacement combustor

17 program. The draft proposal states that if a

18 manufacturer wishes to use a different

19 combustor than the combustor the stove was

20 approved with -- than the one the stove was

21 approved with, the stove would have to be

22 recertified. This would be cost-prohibitive,

23 given most of the combustors used in our

24 industry come from only one or two

Page 356

1 manufacturers.

2 We'd like to suggest an alternate plan.

3 If a replacement combustor is available,

4 manufacturers should be required to test the

5 replacement combustor in the same model stove

6 through the third-party process described

7 elsewhere in the proposal and perform one

8 run.

9 That one run should have to be the worst

10 emissions result run from the original

11 certification test. If the replacement

12 combustor burns as clean or cleaner than the

13 same run used in the certification, it should

14 be deemed a suitable replacement. Acceptance

15 of such a plan would encourage continued

16 innovation by the combustor suppliers.

17 In closing, I'd like to point out an

18 underlying tone of the draft proposal. The

19 tone is loud and clear on pages 353 and 354

20 but not isolated to those two pages. On

21 those final two pages, it is written that

22 manufacturers of catalytic-equipped stoves

23 must place on their label and in their manual

24 specific recommendations to inspect the stove

Page 357

1 at least three times a year.

2 As a manufacturer of both catalytic and

3 non-catalytic products, I can assure you that

4 all solid wood stove heaters should have the

5 same warnings on the label and owners manual.

6 At the end of the day, it is up to the

7 consumer to keep clean burning non-catalytic

8 wood stoves and catalytic wood stoves burning

9 clean. Thank you.

10 MR. NICHOLS: Hello. My name is Scott

11 Nichols, last name spelled N-I-C-H-O-L-S. I

12 represent Tarm USA Incorporated out of Lime,

13 New Hampshire.

14 My company imports and distributes

15 European wood boilers, wood pellet boilers

16 and woodchip boilers. I appreciate you

17 providing this opportunity to come speak in

18 person, you're just close enough to make the

19 drive easy but not so easy that I really

20 wanted to come here but I appreciate that you

21 did very much.

22 I am going to submit a separate written

23 comment and, given the five-minute period

24 today, I'm gonna speak about one specific
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

91 (Pages 358 to 361)

Page 358

1 area of the draft rule that is of biggest

2 concern to me. There is a catch twenty-two

3 that the draft and NSPS proposal places my

4 company in.

5 On the one hand, EPA openly recognizes

6 and admits to problems with existing test

7 methods, speaking specifically about hydronic

8 heaters here. EPA seeks comment at numerous

9 places in the draft proposal for ways to

10 improve existing testing methods.

11 On the other hand, the EPA claims that

12 hydronic heater manufacturers have had seven

13 years to prepare for a final rule and,

14 therefore, EPA has proposed mandatory

15 compliance on the date that the final rule is

16 published.

17 The problem is obvious; some would claim

18 that we should preemptively test the methods

19 that EPA has proposed. We would do so if

20 money was not an object. History has

21 provided clear evidence that EPA remains

22 unsettled as to test methods.

23 My crystal ball shows no clear path

24 forward but only many questions for comment

Page 359

1 about test methods from EPA. Because of the

2 nature of the products we sell, most of them

3 cannot be tested using EPA Method 28 OWHH.

4 On the other hand, all of our products

5 are tested to the European standard EN303-5

6 and all EN303-5 class five, Europe's highest

7 emission threshold.

8 We also provided a boiler to Brookhaven

9 National Laboratory for a joint project

10 between the EPA and NYSERDA. The purpose of

11 that project was to create a fair and

12 accurate test method for hydronic heaters

13 used with nonintegral thermal storage.

14 As mentioned in the draft proposal, New

15 York State has already accepted the

16 Brookhaven Test Method. Our company has

17 clean air and efficiency goals that align

18 with EPA and we believe that we have been

19 leaders in advancing clean burning products

20 and installation and use techniques for

21 ensuring clean burning.

22 For instance, we were the first company

23 to introduce oxygen-controlled residential

24 wood boilers in the United States. We have

Page 360

1 also been leaders in advocating for the use

2 of thermal storage to improve combustion and

3 efficiency. Often leading on the tip of the

4 sword, it's cost our company sales but our

5 philosophy is to push best practice.

6 We now find ourselves potentially being

7 cast out by EPA because we have not been the

8 object of smoke compliance and don't sell

9 common outdoor water stove technology. It is

10 as though we are the good kid in the

11 classroom but the classroom teacher is

12 focusing on the troublemaker and teaching

13 down to the troublemaker's level.

14 Uncertainly -- uncertainty about crux

15 positions of the final rule puts my company

16 at serious risk. Having to comply on the

17 date of final publication without an approved

18 test method prior to publishing the final

19 rule is impossible.

20 If that happens, it is likely that my

21 company will be virtually out of business

22 while we struggle to react to what is

23 published. It is hard to imagine how we will

24 be able to survive a virtual product outage

Page 361

1 while spending hundreds of thousands of

2 dollars on product testing.

3 There are real people working for me who

4 will rely on the EPA to give us a clear path

5 forward. We need EPA to give us solid

6 direction so that we can demonstrate to EPA

7 and the public that the products we have are

8 acceptable and compliant or even cleaner.

9 Given the way that rule publication

10 progresses, it is my understanding that we

11 will not know the final decision for EPA

12 regarding hydronic heater test methods until

13 the final rule is published.

14 I therefore ask for two considerations

15 and that is for EPA to allow a period of one

16 year after the final rule is published for

17 hydronic heaters to meet compliance limits

18 using the chosen test method, whatever it is.

19 And, secondly, I ask that in addition to

20 whatever other test methods EPA will adopt,

21 that EPA also adopt either European test

22 method EN303-5 or the Brookhaven Test Method

23 or both, both methods. Thank you.

24 MR. WOOD: One question, Scott. Do
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

92 (Pages 362 to 364)

Page 362

1 you -- do you sell only indoor units or do

2 you do both indoor and outdoor units?

3 MR. NICHOLS: Only indoor.

4 MR. WOOD: Only indoor, okay. Thank

5 you.

6 MR. NICHOLS: Thank you.

7 MR. MURPHY: So we've reached the end of

8 our list of speakers. Is there anyone else

9 in the room who would like to provide

10 comments?

11 Okay. So we're gonna be here til seven,

12 like I said. You're welcome to stay around.

13 I don't know if anyone has any -- anything to

14 add for the panel at this point. We'll just

15 kind of take a --

16 MR. WOOD: Well, you know, just -- just

17 our thanks I mean.

18 MS. SIMCOX: Yeah.

19 MR. WOOD: Before everybody leaves,

20 okay, we really -- we really thank you for

21 being here, you know. It's too early for our

22 closing remarks but I'm gonna say it anyway.

23 Thank you for being here, we really

24 appreciate it and, you know, we want a good

Page 363

1 rule and that's -- we appreciate everybody

2 being here.

3 MR. MURPHY: Great, thanks. So we'll

4 kind of break informally until somebody else

5 shows up but thank you again for coming.

6

7 (Recess taken.)

8

9 MR. MURPHY: This is Jim Murphy with

10 EPA. There being -- it being 7:00 p.m.

11 Wednesday, February 26th and there are no

12 further speakers here, this is a public

13 hearing for the proposed rule for residential

14 wood heaters and the meeting is now

15 adjourned.

16 (Whereupon, the hearing concluded at 7:00 p.m.)

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

Page 364

AUTHENTIC COPY

The original certified E-Transcript

file was electronically signed

using RealLegal technology.

1 COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS

2

3

4

5

6

7 I, CHRISTINE MANOS, Shorthand Reporter,

8 do hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and

9 accurate transcription of my stenographic notes,

10 to the best of my knowledge and ability.

11

12 WITNESS MY HAND, this 10th day of March,

13 2014.

14

15

16

17 ________________

 Christine Manos

18

19

20

21

22

23

24
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

Page 1

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A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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98:10 99:21 110:11

115:11 121:17 123:1

127:20 129:24 130:8

131:13 134:12 138:23

147:15,17,18 148:16

151:10 152:17 153:1

167:7 170:19 173:3

184:15,17 187:6,15,22

188:9 189:15 190:3

192:12 195:18 196:5

202:11,19 203:19

206:11 209:1 218:18

219:4,7 220:23 221:14

222:5,16 225:10,13,19

225:20,21,23 226:15,20

226:21,22,24 227:10

232:18,19 233:15,20

234:9,22 235:2,7,8,17

238:17,18,22 241:5,11

242:6,24 245:18 246:16

246:19 247:2 253:24

259:4,7,10 261:8

262:17 263:3 264:23

271:1 272:11,16 287:23

288:21 298:16 305:23

305:24 316:16,17,21

317:14,24 320:11

324:15 329:16 330:14

346:12,24 359:17

airshed 228:2

airtight 96:21 315:8

air-monitoring 190:8

Alabama 37:1

Albert 337:5

Albie 337:6

alder 342:6

Alderman 165:14,15

173:24 174:2 182:3,6

182:24

alert 145:16

algorithim 23:9 259:15

align 359:17

Alison 7:11 116:18

alive 104:10 106:9

Allan 195:5 202:4,5,6

Allen 330:6

Allergy 123:17

alleviate 171:7

alleviates 83:4

Alliance 123:12 143:11

allies 94:14

allow 86:11 99:2 244:18

247:21 305:2 313:14

322:4 328:11 336:19

361:15

allowable 39:20

allowed 105:12 116:10

178:13 289:4 330:23

allowing 98:15 110:23

132:22 155:16 352:19

allows 76:2 132:24

260:16

almighty 91:8

almost 32:14 41:2 45:24

50:3 96:23 130:10

132:11 133:18 200:8

245:18 265:15 269:21

272:22 282:6 288:5

316:24 345:4 346:20

alone 21:15 96:20 124:13

207:12 242:5,13 258:1

262:8 324:24

along 13:8 142:18 159:17

218:14 319:19

already 13:2 25:20 27:22

29:9 34:15 35:12 41:9

46:17 87:20 119:6

128:18 130:1 197:14

200:24 205:7 206:10

212:16 222:24 262:23

263:11,20 277:18 278:1

306:20 307:2 313:24

314:6 321:16 325:19

359:15

ALSC 163:2,9

alter 180:5,5

altered 58:10

alternate 356:2

alternative 28:6,11 35:4,7

52:7 154:11 297:9

298:8

alternatives 116:3 127:10

although 34:4 47:22

91:20 170:10 191:2

337:20

always 64:4 145:3 175:6

206:5 209:12 245:19

280:20 289:1,19 301:1

345:19

amazing 156:17 216:9

316:23

ambient 26:5 78:20 96:14

99:21 190:3,7 235:7

324:15

America 36:21 52:15

53:13 55:12 62:10

93:18 100:15 101:1,6

103:1,3,19,24 104:1,8

112:24 113:11 116:17

117:16 118:7 119:4

122:2 123:17 130:23

138:8 217:3 228:18

253:5,22 256:2 257:7

257:13 266:11,16 267:7

271:3,10,23 284:14

294:11 306:12 319:2,9

337:20 338:21 339:9

340:21

American 9:14 39:17

47:6 51:20 53:8 72:18

72:20,22 73:8 77:15

101:16,22,23 102:4,11

102:11,17,18 103:6,7

103:22,22 104:9,10,13

104:14,15,17 108:8

110:13 113:9,22 114:8

115:3,17,17 116:14,15

116:15 122:17 128:14

128:21 129:3,4,5 131:2

131:7,10,11 140:4

141:12 143:20 162:23

163:1,4 202:10 221:12

265:10 271:21

Americans 49:21 52:4,8

91:17 109:12,12,15

139:14 220:24 251:17

254:6

Americas 273:6

America's 107:9 127:5

258:19

among 26:18 88:12 210:4

261:9

amount 39:20 41:6 79:5

134:22 160:8 172:10

176:24 212:14 214:9

312:7

amounts 43:3 146:16,23

Ana 36:24

analogy 272:4,14

analysis 24:4 83:9

270:22

Analyst 147:13

analytical 15:24 18:6

22:21

ancillary 105:18

and/or 203:11,12 295:9

anniversary 72:23

announced 231:19

annoyed 188:12

annual 62:24 70:12

110:17 150:22 234:18

annually 45:24 88:3

217:1 236:5 311:10

347:8

another 76:4 81:7 83:7

91:22 127:11 142:23

154:17 157:2 221:4

231:16 254:15 255:12

261:19 267:4 273:4

274:3 288:11 327:6

328:18 335:21 352:7

answer 18:23 121:10

223:15 230:18 244:20

277:2 314:24 321:13

347:24

answered 320:16

answers 350:15

Anthony 253:17

anthropogenic 43:22

anticatalytic 280:3,6

anticipate 10:24 102:3

121:22

anticipating 119:19

anti-catalytic 283:15

anybody 109:4 114:12

194:24 343:10,13

351:19,20

anyone 5:3 77:4 272:15

282:13,18 362:8,13

anyone's 203:9 213:12

anything 83:15 106:12

173:13 175:13 197:1

317:1 339:19 340:20

341:16 362:13

anyway 18:21 194:8,8

352:7 362:22

anyways 347:8

anywhere 153:17 212:16

295:16

apart 144:13 314:19

317:3 318:4

apnea 170:13

Appalachia 106:21

Appalachian 267:24

appalling 255:3,24

apparently 83:17

appealed 314:22

appealing 200:22

appear 83:10

appears 235:15 326:3

applaud 192:2

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106:24 129:6 139:5,21

145:2 183:14 186:21

212:15 289:16 296:5

300:9 316:5 317:5

344:20

appliances 14:18,18

29:20 52:17 60:13 96:4

97:6 104:15,18 111:11

126:5,14,22 133:13

137:9,13 138:24 139:15

139:16 145:7 159:1

167:15,18 168:20

191:16,21 210:6,21

211:3 219:10 221:5

222:1 224:1,14 236:24

238:1 248:20 274:21

276:5 279:22 282:16

288:9 289:22 297:6

324:1 327:19 334:12

appliance's 186:9

applicable 105:19

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applied 8:14 15:20 330:7

335:13

applies 10:4 14:24 33:14

195:13 293:22

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76:10 195:15 271:21

324:9 327:11

Applying 202:24

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83:24 96:5 116:20,21

124:16 131:23 156:8

186:1,12 222:9 223:5

223:17 250:22 259:6

273:7 290:19 291:20

298:12 305:16 310:6

319:8 321:12 348:9

350:4,21 357:16,20

362:24 363:1

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38:11,13 39:12 70:8

83:3 214:15 268:4

329:11

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170:21 184:15 279:14

349:18

appropriately 33:17 80:1

185:16

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212:6,22,23 292:13

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355:20,21 360:17

approximately 40:15

60:16 71:10 101:2,13

101:18 133:9 233:19

235:24 236:11 257:18

258:2 300:23 311:9

312:6,16

April 1:4 111:12 190:9

Arab 91:7

arbitrary 270:18

area 6:2 11:5 32:14 125:4

133:18 134:1,2,8,11,13

134:22,23 135:5 154:17

157:11,19 159:2 189:15

197:10 225:7 226:10

235:14 249:16,20

252:16 285:2 307:4

320:1,15 321:7 353:2

358:1

areas 3:21 4:18 6:12

18:20 31:10 109:17

143:13 210:7 218:22

221:9 251:14 254:2

297:1 321:11 323:4

argue 354:14

argument 280:9,16

309:23

arguments 125:1
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HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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arrangement 334:20

arrangements 178:14

array 33:11

arrive 215:6

arrives 172:22

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article 112:22

articles 338:13

ash 30:13 287:4 296:16

ashes 126:2

asked 3:9 15:14 57:23

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asleep 305:19

aspect 19:22 142:23

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aspects 36:1 47:22

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153:8 247:1 275:12

assembled 164:14 296:1

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asserted 63:1

assertion 97:7 220:17

assessment 74:17

assistance 83:2 113:6

Assistant 2:15 30:23

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Associate 19:4

associated 38:4 43:12

153:11 189:19 191:18

300:9

association 14:15,16

19:6 31:2,7 39:18 51:21

72:18,20,22 73:8 75:20

76:7 77:15 95:22

122:18 123:16,22 124:9

183:12 202:10 208:13

248:11 265:10 268:1

294:10 339:8,10

assume 19:14 191:10

197:21

Assuming 197:24

assurance 97:17 219:17

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assure 111:10 164:23

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assured 302:18

assuredly 113:21

assuring 219:3

asthma 4:2,9,11 26:15

43:8,15 45:20 49:20,20

50:2 51:8 69:1 73:5

76:21 77:10 87:19,20

87:23 88:11 123:16,24

149:8 169:3 204:1,2,5

asthmas 49:23

asthmatics 189:23

ASTM 228:24 230:20,21

231:2 273:24 274:5

298:5 340:19 341:11

ASTME2558 40:9

ata 275:9

Atlantic 307:10

atmosphere 62:3

atmospheric 190:14

attached 92:18 167:20

attack 91:21,22 281:4

attacking 281:16

attacks 4:10,11 26:14

45:20 149:8 280:19,23

282:7 283:11

attainment 234:21

attempt 180:5

attempted 148:12

attempting 324:14

attend 248:14

attended 172:9 252:17

253:6 316:7 330:21

attending 88:6

attention 19:23 39:4

79:16 91:13 105:1

107:19 260:6

attorney 67:14

attractive 80:8 221:8

attributed 32:17

Auburn 36:23

audience 192:22 230:17

280:18 281:2 321:17

351:10

audit 164:8

audited 62:19 137:17

auditing 53:16,19 161:13

162:18 163:10,13

164:13

auditors 161:15,17

audits 62:22

augmented 121:23

August 47:16 300:13

Austria 214:18 216:6

authorities 318:8

authority 53:12 130:15

256:4 289:12,21

authorized 136:18

auto 205:17,23

automated 119:10,14

automatic 128:12 317:10

automatically 128:12,24

automobile 228:7 330:15

availability 270:8

available 8:19 10:21 11:5

15:17 18:23 24:11

28:22 40:3 52:17 71:6

72:10 88:16 103:16

109:20 110:19 115:16

133:2 190:22 202:21

205:8 247:23 270:15

275:22 276:16 288:23

303:5,24 356:3

average 18:17 27:15,19

44:23 66:16 67:4 70:13

76:24 126:24 150:15

176:20 190:16 206:20

230:1 232:10 258:12

262:22 276:17 355:5,14

averaged 241:18

averages 153:15

average-age 62:16

averaging 354:24

avoid 145:13

avoided 41:7

avoiding 134:18

awaited 353:22

award 196:5

aware 80:14 90:15 178:16

away 73:24 94:16 111:14

126:20 167:1,4,8

169:10 171:14 173:14

199:7 211:23 221:10

252:5 256:2 282:1

awfully 315:13

axiomatic 328:19

A-C-K-E-R-L-Y 116:20

A-H-O 78:12

A-L-B-I-E 337:7

a.m 1:19

B

B 98:2

Babies 123:20

baby 338:17

back 2:18 5:4 9:22 11:6

13:3,24 24:22 60:22

62:3,22 91:18 100:23

101:10 105:3,9,11

111:19 112:4 113:10

121:24 124:24 127:2

144:18 158:14 194:14

195:6 206:6 209:12

216:3 224:8 231:17

248:16 250:17 287:21

310:9 311:8 327:1,19

338:17 348:15

backed 214:3

background 105:8

267:17 330:9

backing 113:12

backyard 90:16 151:5

bad 82:1 95:16 171:16

175:17

baffle 315:10 316:15,17

316:21

baffles 260:10

baghouses 158:19

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baking 295:9

balance 38:15 41:23

226:21 227:10,14

240:10

balances 186:18,19

bald 305:15

ball 217:15,16 231:19,20

233:3 358:23

ballpark 196:19

bally-hoed 228:13

ban 38:20 39:23 60:23

93:21

bank 169:12

banned 57:1 281:15

banning 188:20 263:20

bans 39:11 306:24

bar 14:2

Barbara 195:5 202:6

Barbecue 14:14 19:6

95:22 248:10

barbecues 5:9 10:10

Barden 337:5,6,6

bark 30:13 225:3

barn 172:9 322:3

Barry 122:10 125:13,13

131:15

base 103:11 216:21

based 31:14 35:11 42:21

51:21 53:4 84:5 89:9

95:22 98:8 100:11

128:7 135:22 144:24

151:3 152:14,15 164:18

175:4 235:21 258:18

268:22 277:10 285:5

333:9 355:7

basic 256:2

basically 158:12,13

339:19

basis 59:3 117:15 133:8

142:8 237:19

batch 216:13

bathrooms 194:17

battery 157:1

battles 205:17

BDT 16:7 119:7

beat 258:10

beautiful 196:23 197:6,11

198:7 199:5,7

beautifully 197:7

became 91:18 92:18

become 39:1 87:21 106:8

139:13 159:13 165:20

166:9 185:23 200:21

212:7 239:11 263:5,15

264:5,8 320:2 342:12

353:17

becomes 83:14 182:12

199:18 216:11 226:15

226:22 303:16 328:21

becoming 29:16 182:20

212:5

bed 135:13 177:8 316:22

Bedford 86:20

beep 25:1

before 2:6 7:1,13 9:22

11:15 12:6 85:22 87:1

137:24 144:18 183:2

192:19 193:19 199:9

251:4 272:17 286:11

287:22 295:3 296:19

312:18 341:6 345:12

362:19

began 261:24

begin 11:16 25:19 91:4

108:12 111:17 178:24

193:19 320:24 321:5

353:22

beginning 3:8 5:1,1

16:16 214:6 293:19

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55:11 67:15 72:19

122:21,22 136:10,18

248:1 284:3 294:9

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328:21

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36:21 57:13 60:21 94:4

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173:6 212:7 215:14

219:19 228:13 245:10

270:24 272:23 288:17

298:11 307:6 342:15

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211:16 212:19 215:21

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227:22 243:10 252:14

258:21 260:5 263:3,5

264:13 281:2 297:8

315:24 319:14 324:16

324:22 325:14,16

329:23 340:21 344:2

346:12 349:24 359:18

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260:15

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below 63:15 150:23 216:1

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319:23 355:10

Ben 209:21 340:13

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85:7 127:18 132:23

196:20 200:16 220:16

270:21

benefits 6:10,14 9:11,16

26:23 27:4 28:9 29:18

38:13 42:20 45:13,22

61:11 80:13 85:12

89:17 90:14 117:11

126:17 140:3 153:2

184:1 191:17 206:14

208:22 219:4 240:21

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benefitting 25:18

Benjamin 310:23 311:3

benzene 32:10

benzine 44:9

Berry 245:2,4,5

besides 140:2
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HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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202:18 213:13 216:9

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Beth 332:7

better 3:12,13 20:16 34:7

64:7,7 142:13 154:11

175:14 207:14 213:11

216:21 227:9 229:19,24

272:2 316:13 336:20

better-performing 289:9

between 9:15 23:17 55:1

65:21 66:6 80:2 125:6

135:3 169:6 216:12

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beyond 4:8 28:21 84:19

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201:5 231:6 255:8

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bigger 237:2 329:15

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bill 251:21 278:13

billion 26:24 45:23

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BioLight 157:3 160:20

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183:13 184:10,13 185:7

185:12 197:17 311:17

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bit 20:17 120:22 194:7

341:4,14

black 94:12 197:1 342:5

Blaze 352:13 355:3,9,15

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blocks 93:15

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294:10

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Bob 90:1,4

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164:12 211:18,22

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298:23 299:5 303:5,24

304:11 359:8

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27:11 28:5 29:16 33:19

42:13,17 43:5 46:11,21

47:2 48:4 69:11 75:15

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138:7 151:7 152:6

243:17 298:21 303:18

303:21 357:15,15,16

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198:21 199:1,4

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338:15 340:1,4

books 340:1

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Boston 1:18 90:15

239:23 305:15

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20:23,24 22:24 23:3,12

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74:10 78:22 90:24

95:24 96:13 100:1

124:12,15 125:9 136:2

178:21 181:2 183:20

184:18 186:23 190:5

218:9,11 220:15 222:15

225:24 247:6 284:11

291:8 306:4 310:10

323:12 331:17 335:23

357:2 361:23,23 362:2

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341:5 347:14

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Brandon 122:10 125:13

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324:1

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192:18 310:23 318:13

363:4

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188:17 189:17 203:22

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316:22 338:21

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79:15 104:8 117:18

214:6,16 230:9

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205:21 224:17 297:22

313:7 340:11,12

Brown 327:11,13

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277:6,9 279:3

BSR 277:9

BTU 69:20,24 70:1 130:2

130:20 133:8 186:14

214:10 215:6 217:5

276:14 319:23 320:1,9

322:2,5,10

BTUs 58:10 59:6 278:18

319:17

budget 309:22

build 97:20 108:16,21,23

108:23 110:19 116:16

249:22 252:3,10 340:23

352:17

building 16:14 65:5 108:6

108:14 109:12 113:8,10

192:11 224:3 285:7

294:2 296:24 337:7

338:1 341:8,20

buildings 105:19 304:13

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65:7 77:21 98:10 294:4

295:23 296:3 298:12

340:14

built-in 196:22

bulbs 116:9

bulk 21:4

bunch 64:17

burden 65:12 235:4

244:13

burdened 52:5 203:11

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burdensome 256:10

Bureau 143:7 172:23

187:14 188:9 216:22

bureaucracy 212:13

burn 3:6 5:11 33:24 40:12

83:15 87:4 121:4 122:2

127:10 142:23 149:17

153:17 207:10 225:18

226:11 227:1,13 229:7

230:13 232:2,3,6,12,14

233:4 254:8 258:6

260:9,13 275:3 276:9

276:16 286:14,17 287:3

288:18 290:2 294:22

306:24 313:20 314:18

316:4,19 317:2,15,18

318:3 333:2 340:9,15

341:5 354:9,16,20,22

burned 2:22,24 41:10

94:4 146:22 172:24

236:5,11 286:11 316:23

332:18,20 341:12,12

burner 168:4,8,12 173:5

173:12

burners 200:12,24

248:19 265:18 326:13

burning 10:2 14:18 38:19

41:4 65:18 68:4 74:3

75:12 79:3 94:16,18,21

119:15 121:3 127:15

128:2 131:6 141:15

142:15,18 143:2,5,14

144:3 150:21 154:12

168:3 171:4,13,22

173:18 191:13 195:14

196:7,23 197:6 215:16

215:17 231:8 235:14,23

236:22 240:18 241:3,14

242:21 251:14 252:6,7

252:24 263:14 287:14

289:24 309:7,12 314:13

314:14 316:11 341:11

347:10 357:7,8 359:19

359:21

burns 62:2 197:6 207:19

232:8 240:8 252:18

353:22 356:12

burnt 295:8,16

Burnwise 348:23

burn-rate 8:15 9:21

Bushway 283:24 293:17

293:18,24

business 16:24 17:4 20:5

56:1,16 59:22 60:1,22

61:16 94:12,19 100:21

100:23 101:4,12 102:9

103:18 108:9 113:16,21

115:8 131:3 142:3

179:7 196:11 216:22

234:13 238:19 250:16

250:17 251:21 252:1

254:14 256:11,22 259:1

259:22 260:3 263:1,12

264:19 290:6 298:22

299:3 301:5,10,11

302:10 303:4 314:10

319:1 321:2 334:7

335:3 343:1 360:21

businesses 15:5 16:12

16:15 22:12 79:10

84:21 101:24 113:3,7

129:4 131:10 134:15

140:10 142:5 251:15

254:5,8 256:15 260:3

273:5 308:6 319:10

334:4

business's 290:6

business-related 270:10

button 24:23

buy 106:23 107:15 160:6

170:15 199:7 201:13

250:9 282:20 283:19

287:18

buyer 169:10

buyers 63:16 151:12

buying 89:14 111:1,4

169:8 191:8 228:8

272:19 327:13

buys 327:11

buzzer 24:20

bypass 64:4 145:3,5

146:22 199:16,17

281:24 282:21

bypassed 345:21

bypasses 287:1

bypassing 282:1

B-A-R-D-E-N 337:7

B-A-R-R-Y 125:14

B-E-R-R-Y 245:5

B-I-B-E-R 323:21

B-U-S-H-W-A-Y 293:24

B415.1 128:10

C

cabins 105:18

calculation 265:11

California 36:24 95:23

California's 205:18

call 11:10 118:5 173:8

193:14 229:3,4

called 337:10 338:6

calling 47:12,18 50:8

252:4

callouses 309:17

calls 50:10,16,23,24

77:15 237:3

Calvin 100:6,9

came 58:7 62:22 90:18

93:20,20,20 157:6

166:21 214:24 215:7

224:8 341:17

camp 88:3,6 106:16

campaign 134:21

Canada 52:20 96:1

130:13 170:18 257:19

281:13

Canadian 128:7,18

130:24

Canadian-based 129:1

Canadian-manufactured

128:8

cancer 44:14 73:7 169:24

203:24

cancerous 32:15

cancers 189:15

cap 58:12 69:24 70:5

capabilities 210:5

capable 47:6 53:22

266:19 269:4

capacity 137:1 306:24

capita 246:7

capital 22:6

capture 153:23 241:13

242:14

captured 153:13

car 91:20 156:15 175:6

205:18

carbon 32:7 42:12 44:7
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carbon-beneficial 138:1

carbon-neutral 132:10

298:15

carcinogenic 71:12

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carcinogens 74:9 87:10

cardio 189:19

cardiovascular 43:8,14

75:2,6,8 77:10

care 54:21 106:10 309:11

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career 224:16 266:21

carefully 244:7

Carolina 7:6,10,22

carried 106:4

Carroll 14:9 19:1,2,4

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carry 65:12 88:7 115:21

carrying 164:15

carryover 23:10

cars 91:19 92:19 276:5

cascading 269:9

case 124:10 127:22

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cases 20:23 49:23 78:21

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cast 20:20 21:3,5,7,9,19

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casting 21:15

castings 90:9 244:11

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cat 144:16,20 145:2,4,9

145:24 146:19,21

158:17 309:1

catalyst 82:10 282:20

292:10,14 311:17

330:17,24 331:6,14

332:17 333:12,13,14,19

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catalysts 81:21,23

292:13 332:24 333:18

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catalyst-equipped 81:16

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catalytic 20:24 21:11

29:14 64:3 80:2 81:19

130:1 144:8,11 145:12

199:10,12,14 232:7

258:14,16 260:8 261:5

261:14,15 262:6,13

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282:20,23 283:12,18

285:3,4,8 286:1,4,6,15

287:22 288:8,11,15,19

288:22 291:7,21 292:4

308:23 309:3 312:3

324:4 329:7 330:8,15

331:12,13,18 332:1

333:2 334:2,11,16

335:2,17 336:4 345:18

352:16,18,23 355:10

357:2,8

catalytics 335:1

catalytic-equipped

356:22

catastrophes 269:10

catch 192:24 265:22

306:18 358:2

categorically 97:6

categories 46:9 115:14

126:13 152:4 155:16

197:17 261:10,22

264:14 354:10

category 29:23 39:7

62:12 101:3 115:22,22

127:20,20 128:17 129:7

152:10 176:13 181:20

195:16 258:1 261:6

262:1 354:10

cats 232:13

caucus 57:18 214:5

cause 43:6 69:17 73:7

160:4 167:3 198:3

203:22 208:7 264:21

343:16

caused 68:24 143:1

169:8 253:10

causes 75:2,3 241:14

243:2 345:17

causing 26:12 32:1 50:4

77:22

cavalier 22:11

CBI 334:13 355:4

CCS 158:2

cease 188:21

celebrates 72:23

cellphone 198:17

cementing 326:7

census 114:10 143:7

center 48:15 50:6,15 51:6

123:20 304:1 338:22

centers 218:5

central 27:9 28:17 73:1

129:7 151:2 284:7

298:23 299:5 303:5,18

303:21,24 304:10

century 46:2 255:11,19

294:17 338:2

CEO 14:14 72:17 100:10

195:11

ceramic 316:15 330:10

ceramics 330:7,13

335:13

certain 19:17 82:19 84:9

98:6 154:1 198:1 250:1

279:10 286:9 288:24

certainly 91:13 96:5

99:16 130:10 136:4

194:15 202:2 223:16

250:14 310:17

certainty 130:12 187:2

certificate 62:16 66:16

163:22

certificated 62:23

certificates 23:10 65:10

308:15

certification 16:20 29:24

35:23 53:7 98:21 99:2,3

99:6 139:2 153:9

185:18 211:15,18 212:1

212:20 213:16 225:15

266:23 267:1 269:12

296:23 298:8 302:19

356:11,13

certifications 155:10

certified 30:2 46:17 65:14

65:20 66:4 67:1 96:12

105:7 137:18 139:4

146:15 210:16 230:4,8

231:9 284:13 293:3

298:1 305:5 314:16

317:4 324:2 332:22

certify 22:19 210:21

228:5 237:24 297:23

302:7 364:8

certifying 210:17 211:18

211:22 212:10 228:7

cetera 285:15 332:10

chain 217:15,16 231:19

231:20 233:3

chair 294:9

Chairman 330:9

challenge 130:17 156:20

186:1,12 205:24 259:21

challenges 206:2

challenging 114:21

115:12

chamber 296:9

chambers 295:2

chance 22:17 95:10

146:6 175:14 198:21

338:23

change 15:7,8,10,10 18:5

18:6 21:8 28:20,23

29:10 48:20 59:14,23

66:3 67:4 83:3 85:24

86:2 89:4 94:1 96:6,10

99:14,20 119:8 121:7,8

121:11 124:11,18

134:21 174:14 207:5

208:17 210:15 222:1

223:9 253:13,20 255:5

255:7 304:1,9 307:3

309:6 315:1 325:18

328:11 349:3 353:14

changed 56:10 73:19

141:23 159:7 261:24

265:8 304:5

changes 15:23 18:9

19:15,18 20:8,12 21:15

21:22 23:5,7,14 97:4,7

97:16,17 98:4 127:7

158:8,18,24 192:10

201:21 210:11 219:16

220:18 234:1 248:22

250:2,5,12,20 260:23

316:14 324:12 333:23

changing 5:24 38:7,9

94:2 186:3 214:24

215:2 265:18

channels 295:2 296:10

314:23

chapter 123:15,18

characteristics 297:19

charcoal 153:20

charge 153:16 157:1

160:18 294:23 341:6

charged 113:1

charges 153:17 157:4

Charles 131:18

Charlie 136:15

chart 133:22 135:5,17

charts 135:1 253:16

cheap 214:19

cheaper 142:21 191:10

check 289:15

checked 289:16

Chelsea 67:10,11,14

cherished 93:6

chest 170:13

chestnut 342:7

Chief 36:18

childhood 76:21 126:3

children 9:5 43:9,16

45:19 49:21,23 50:23

69:2 87:17,18,23 88:12

161:5 189:23 204:6

308:8

Childrens 77:8

chill 325:17 329:24

chimineas 10:11 182:19

chimney 82:12 141:7,18

141:22,24 142:4,10,17

144:7 145:5,13,14,16

145:23 146:2,17,24

147:3,4 195:12 284:7

284:10,12,13,13,15,17

284:20 285:6 286:2,16

286:19,21 289:19 291:6

293:20 295:4 327:3,6

328:24 342:23 343:4

344:13 345:1,17 346:6

347:7

chimneys 5:13 94:23

145:22 285:18,19,22

300:2 329:2

Chinese 294:14

chip 28:4 30:4

choice 4:19 18:11 138:15

139:14 162:15 184:8

191:11 261:3 296:13

300:5

choices 79:22 151:13

chokes 229:11 231:14,14

choking 50:20

choose 54:6 123:11

127:9 157:22 277:15

290:1 347:20

chopped 92:5

chores 126:3

chosen 197:20 361:18

CHP 157:6,9 159:17

160:10

Chris 156:5 161:9,10

337:5 342:22 352:8,11

Christine 1:23 364:7,17

chronic 4:9 73:6 77:9

149:2 203:11 204:7

Chuck 209:5 213:21

chunk 315:20

chunks 315:7,13,19

cigarette 165:24 166:1

circulation 94:9

circumstances 323:7

circumvent 243:23

circumvents 264:9

cited 188:14 208:8

270:24

cities 26:6

citizen 48:19,21 208:11

citizens 93:24 187:21

192:13 235:1 237:5

240:4 243:11

city 37:1 74:21 106:15,16

133:15 134:2 241:16

Clackamas 209:10

claim 334:14 358:17

claimed 130:16

claims 276:14 282:3,5

358:11

Claire 48:9,11

clarification 267:16

298:3 321:16

clarify 305:2

clarifying 192:21

class 119:5,19 201:8

279:21 359:6

classes 77:17 261:9

279:17

classic 304:3

classics 304:11

classroom 360:11,11

clause 168:9

clean 31:2 41:4 46:4,13

48:17,24 50:9 51:4 66:4

67:12,15,19 68:2 70:19

71:21 72:6 73:16 75:17

86:21,22,23 93:23

94:10 95:15 98:10

119:15 120:10 133:14

134:12 137:14 138:23

147:18 186:15 187:4

191:14 195:18 196:5

202:19 205:18 217:6

219:4,7 221:14 228:13

229:8 230:4,14 232:5,5

233:15 238:17 245:18

250:13 256:19 261:8

264:7 272:6,8 281:22

282:18 287:3 299:9

305:23 330:14 333:2

342:16 356:12 357:7,9

359:17,19,21

cleaned 66:5 145:13

253:24

cleaner 3:10 8:24 9:18

24:9 25:17 29:3 38:8,10

39:10 40:13 44:16 47:8

77:14 85:6 89:3 94:18

118:12 121:6,20 138:8

138:12 185:13,23 187:6
A80197F

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Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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cleaner-burning 27:6,23

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cleanest 25:13 155:24

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cleanest-burning 196:2

cleaning 93:18 287:20

cleanly 117:17 149:17

196:23 240:9

cleanup 57:24 58:3,4,9

58:22 59:5,13,20 60:22

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clean-burning 40:20 41:8

54:14 57:4,9 137:12

184:12 185:7 195:22

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clean-combusting 137:7

clear 28:12 120:21 168:2

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clearer 119:9

clearly 47:14 143:23

268:11 276:6

ClearStak 156:8 160:21

Clegg 337:10

cleverly 351:23

cliff 59:8

climate 213:14 243:1

246:17 253:13,20,22

255:5,7 294:18

climbing 184:8

clock 58:18

clog 287:8

clogs 287:3

close 32:3 93:21 122:12

125:21 265:15 271:15

316:10 355:12 357:18

closed 49:15

closely 16:14 125:10

212:20 220:3 236:23

238:2 355:12

closeout 111:6

closes 194:19

closest 327:4

closing 95:11 120:22

124:20 186:22 228:4

264:11 272:20,21

347:22 356:17 362:22

Club 254:22 255:8 267:24

268:1

clustered 236:23

CO 157:17 274:19 275:19

275:24 276:10 289:15

coal 10:13 60:16 118:8

127:15 272:6,8

coalition 123:2,11,11,13

123:21,24 330:8 352:23

coalitions 123:10

coals 341:8

Coast 161:16,16 307:9

coatings 335:11

Codman 123:19

coffee 14:2

cold 2:20 20:15 177:8

215:14,16,20 216:12,12

246:17 295:21 305:11

305:13 315:14 316:22

colder 26:7 190:12

coldest 242:8,22

collaborating 15:6

collar 105:12

colleagues 294:12

305:13 307:2,9

collected 164:6 178:1

collecting 61:24 353:22

collection 274:18

collectively 235:13,16

Colorado 340:17 341:3

colors 341:13

Columbia 31:9 170:17

combination 23:6 158:21

combinations 277:11,14

combined 5:19 6:8,8

combustibles 108:20

combustion 25:24 26:4

31:23 32:17,21,24

33:12 35:21 43:18

47:21 49:11 87:11

125:23 137:15 139:19

148:15,20 153:11

175:16 189:10 225:13

225:18,23 226:2,12,13

226:14,19,22 227:9,11

233:10 235:23 279:6

294:24 296:9 315:10

317:10 336:5 360:2

combustor 145:24

263:18 281:24 286:5,7

286:11,12,22 287:1,3,6

292:4,7,19 332:21

355:16,19,19 356:3,5

356:12,16

combustors 199:12

287:14 355:23

come 7:2 14:8 17:22 32:3

43:4 76:6 87:1 112:4

119:11 130:23 135:9

137:15 156:2 187:10

193:15,16 209:12

233:23 251:3 254:4

283:1,6 285:18 289:5

294:21 306:18 309:5

313:8 332:7 337:16

350:18 355:24 357:17

357:20

comes 3:5 126:7 194:9

199:12 309:6

comfort 294:6

comfortable 295:14

305:7 315:19

coming 6:16,23 21:4

35:23 72:13 127:2

148:2 186:15 217:14

267:5 334:14 363:5

comment 2:17 19:3 51:14

66:23 67:2 117:2

130:11 179:12,21

228:10 267:18 278:23

357:23 358:8,24

comments 7:24 10:17,23

11:2,4 12:15 23:13

24:11 30:18 31:14,16

36:2 55:14 63:12 69:4

69:12 72:13,19,21

78:16 79:18 85:15

105:6 124:10 136:8

137:22 183:9 187:19

192:4,5 195:15 204:23

205:13 208:20 210:8

228:23 233:24 237:23

239:13 245:7,10 247:4

248:1 257:11 266:14

267:21 273:8 275:12

290:15 291:1,19 297:16

330:4 348:5 350:4

362:10

Commerce 113:16

commercial 71:4 319:22

320:8,19,20,24 323:4

commercially-available

71:1,4,7,17

commission 94:6 121:13

commissioned 63:8

Commissioner 25:5

30:23 78:11,12 85:17

239:18,20 246:8,15

commissions 112:2

commit 95:8

commitment 52:24 55:3

302:23

committed 137:6 339:19

committee 53:8 141:10

144:9 162:8,23 163:2

164:20 294:9 298:9

committing 83:17

common 38:15 41:13

72:4 85:5 205:23 310:4

339:12 360:9

commonly 226:17

Commonwealth 1:1

202:7 364:1

common-sense 268:4

communities 3:15 4:13

4:16 38:20 47:10 48:17

51:5 72:4 87:22 123:12

233:16 235:18 236:22

241:10 307:5

community 6:15 44:16

116:22 123:9 242:11

311:9

companies 16:24 17:3

21:5,6 22:24 23:2,12,22

40:15 51:23 56:12

64:12 98:17 99:12

101:16,22 109:11,22

111:15,18,21 157:14

160:21,24 248:16 270:4

272:24 281:12,16

283:10 313:7

company 21:24 22:22

39:3 55:24 57:15 59:6

63:9 100:10 104:22

108:2,8 109:9 111:18

114:14,20 115:3,18

125:15 126:9 130:7

136:17 137:6 157:2

195:12,17 196:4,19

213:24 214:15 216:5

223:11 224:3,15 249:9

249:18 250:17 257:20

262:20 267:11 274:11

275:8 281:8 293:24

311:5,16 312:4,24

318:23 331:11 334:12

337:9 357:14 358:4

359:16,22 360:4,15,21

company's 200:8

comparable 276:18

300:3

comparably 130:5

comparatively 329:20

compared 138:13 140:6

140:8 224:24 262:18

333:12

comparison 151:6

compelled 68:5

compellingly 268:11

compete 210:13

competition 66:6 328:12

329:22 330:16

competitive 62:11 211:10

213:17 244:18 277:5

competitiveness 329:14

compiled 230:2

complainants 188:15

complaint 6:20 237:3

341:21

complaints 6:17 166:20

182:17 188:7,10 208:12

complete 10:23 63:11

72:21 164:1 212:15

219:13 248:1 294:24

completed 58:1 245:10

332:12

completely 59:21 60:5

142:19 145:15 171:24

195:22 201:10 287:1

302:12

completely-renewable

62:5

Complex 65:24

complexities 326:9

complexity 237:18 326:5

compliance 35:4,6 83:20

105:14 137:18 163:21

164:4 174:11,15 176:17

176:23 178:2 181:24

205:1 207:8,10,12

259:15 269:15 289:17

289:22 297:17 324:17

324:23 326:17 329:23

358:15 360:8 361:17

compliant 23:21 115:16

177:15 187:3 207:22

361:8

complicated 264:5,9

complies 163:18

comply 9:13 47:3 71:8

128:13 129:13,21

131:12 139:16 191:1,3

192:1 360:16

component 20:10 138:21

components 54:12 64:24

69:7 149:22 164:9

165:22 207:14 295:24

345:8

compound 45:8

compounding 77:22

compounds 44:8 74:8

150:10 189:7 203:16

226:17

comprehensive 139:12

186:4 332:4

comprised 189:4

comprising 257:22

compromise 85:7 206:9

computer-modeled

340:8

con 90:24

concentrations 76:24

243:3 246:20

concentrators 61:23

concept 96:6

concern 154:17 188:1

213:7 234:8 237:2

241:24 247:5 262:15

292:10 322:23 335:21

358:2

concerned 19:8,10 21:20

50:7 96:22 109:6

188:15 218:21 242:12

249:2 251:9 354:1

355:15

concerning 179:13

335:15

concerns 19:22 20:1,11

79:8,17 83:4 84:17

118:14 153:8 191:24

192:3 210:10 222:10

237:5 238:11 242:1

257:9 259:6 266:12

306:3 324:10 343:18

345:13 348:10

conclude 17:14 189:2

244:21

concluded 74:24 363:16

concluding 268:13

conclusion 141:1 146:13

155:20 213:3 333:9

condensation 286:24

condition 336:2

conditioning 335:22

336:1,9

conditions 35:17 190:14

243:2 246:19 272:23

308:15 317:19

conducive 190:14

conduct 130:4

conducted 128:6 154:23

162:2 190:8 236:3

268:7

conducting 266:20

268:24

Conference 339:15
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

Page 7

confidence 269:1

confident 125:8 165:8

249:23 259:24

configuration 82:11

confirmed 353:17

conjunction 15:23

connected 212:20 327:2

Connecticut 76:22

171:10 182:9 187:15,18

187:21 188:1,6,20

190:1,9 191:23 192:12

323:22 328:6

connection 123:3 338:18

consecutive 330:22

consensus 53:3 58:23

128:7

consequence 17:23 24:5

81:7 83:7 240:19

243:14 343:24

consequences 19:9 77:8

79:14 142:16 186:23

319:15

Consequently 270:1

Conservancy 268:2

Conservation 239:22

268:1

conserver 342:12,15

consider 10:22 18:11

24:2 29:21 69:4 76:18

80:2 94:16 106:1

138:16 162:15 186:23

234:15 295:17 304:18

316:1 343:14 355:13

considerable 15:18

considerably 19:19

196:16 198:9 336:4

consideration 35:1 63:21

204:24 208:9

considerations 23:19

361:14

considered 60:5 63:24

77:1 112:20 205:23

216:18 264:13 301:16

305:4 321:3 348:2

considering 81:9 251:10

264:24 267:17 336:23

considers 301:19

consignment 327:24

consistent 52:19 55:4

137:20 162:13,13

165:10 198:14 243:5

277:19 285:17 321:7

consistently 5:11 139:20

consists 296:6,15 315:6

constantly 65:20

constituents 189:5

203:14

construction 293:8

consultant 136:17 224:9

231:7

consultants 230:23

consulting 59:9 224:10

consumer 18:17 33:6

37:16 42:1 63:9 64:10

79:21 85:7 103:7,11,22

104:18 107:8 120:9,15

126:15 127:1 174:24

221:7 230:15 247:13

259:20 260:18 261:3

264:2,9 276:18 279:24

299:11 306:5 324:5

334:19 335:14 342:11

353:13 354:12 357:7

consumers 17:13,14

20:12 23:2,18 25:18

27:4 28:6 33:3 38:6

41:18 42:22 47:9 52:24

54:15,22 55:5 63:6

65:23 81:17 82:22

110:4 119:23,24 120:4

120:10,16 121:21

126:20 139:2 184:1,9

184:19 186:22 187:5

207:1,17 218:9 219:2

220:16 221:4,12,23

232:22 238:2 260:18

275:19 276:7,19,20

297:10 299:14,17,22

300:5 318:7 354:15

consumer's 137:13

consumer-oriented

117:9

consumption 128:4

184:7

contact 201:10 323:13

contacted 238:8

contacting 238:7

contain 154:24 155:6

300:19

contained 62:2

contains 3:22 32:6

140:24

contaminants 155:2

contaminated 155:6

contemplated 21:22 35:9

99:15

content 30:13 176:20

225:5

contest 278:6

continually 304:23

continuation 149:12

continue 12:19 18:15

19:13 35:24 77:21

92:20 107:11 121:3

135:11 155:17 164:21

206:9 222:12 235:20

249:21 260:17 289:3

296:24 301:10 315:5

343:7

continued 17:2 18:13

52:16 53:5 98:16

149:15 164:3 269:14

356:15

continues 39:19 117:1

190:1 208:18 340:23

continuing 41:18 235:10

313:19

continuous 218:8

continuously 288:5

contract 338:14

contracted 59:9

contractor 289:18 332:7

contrary 197:23

contribute 26:5 54:12

87:11 117:5 134:17

187:6

contributed 190:11

contributes 43:24 74:20

132:19 235:23

contributing 265:9

contribution 224:2

contributions 190:17,19

contributor 133:4

contributors 51:22

control 26:19 31:8,18

32:20 156:16 157:14

190:24 202:17 233:11

236:2 288:21 306:23

316:20 317:10

controls 63:23 66:1

157:1,19 159:8 282:17

311:16

convened 60:2

convenience 110:8

conveniently 307:9

conventional 299:13

301:16,20,23 302:3

303:8

conversation 323:15

conversations 352:4

Conversely 331:17

conversion 325:24

326:12,17

convert 146:20

converter 285:10,14,16

330:15 345:19

converters 285:9

converting 325:20

convey 156:9

conveyed 90:23

convinced 97:1 196:13

197:18

convincing 255:16

Conyers 161:14

cool 64:19

cooler 345:15,24

cools 225:23

cooperating 218:16

cooperation 55:1

cooperative 318:24

coordinated 147:14

242:6

Coordinator 233:10

COPD 170:24

copies 12:11 194:12

338:5

copy 12:12 140:20 141:1

cord 16:1 35:20 41:10

56:7 58:14 61:13,15

65:11,14,19 66:5 85:2

92:2 159:2,2,4 175:20

176:6,10 181:2,13,17

181:20 207:11,11,16

215:18 216:11 220:2,5

220:9,11 222:20 225:19

225:21 226:4,12 227:9

228:6,24 229:4,7,17

230:10,14,18 231:4,8

231:11,24 238:4 249:4

270:12,13,17 273:13,19

310:1 313:20 340:17,19

341:11 353:23 354:23

cordierite 335:9

cords 236:12 332:18

cordwood 97:21

core 164:13 296:6,11

319:1

correct 94:24 141:8

201:20 209:24 279:2

322:9 351:3

Corrected 1:4

correction 177:21,23

178:6

correctly 66:2 241:7

289:24 290:2

correlated 149:2

correlation 133:22 135:3

corresponding 84:3

corridor 44:3

cost 19:18 20:7,12 23:4

26:24 27:2,8 35:1 37:14

37:16,24 40:18 45:24

50:3 58:14,19,20 59:11

59:16,18 64:12,24

82:17 84:5 97:2,5,8,12

99:16 102:14,15,16,16

104:2,2,3 111:20 112:2

126:12,18,21 127:2,19

131:12 140:9 142:24

145:19 146:20 169:17

176:1 177:3,16 181:7

185:19 191:20 207:6

219:6 220:13,18,19,21

221:6,24 248:24 249:7

259:23 262:16,19,24

278:11 295:19 299:8,12

299:24 325:3,6,12

328:11 329:23 334:21

336:3 338:9 360:4

Costar 248:8

costing 26:20 299:11

costly 109:15 179:8

207:2 318:9

costs 9:17 17:15 21:16

23:16,17 38:4 40:22

41:17 62:6 65:14,21

66:3 99:18 102:17

109:15 111:24 112:1

128:3 137:15 140:11

168:5 170:24 176:3

181:9 185:18 203:4

208:23 219:1 220:15

249:10 250:4 259:19

274:24 278:24 308:3,5

308:5,6,7 319:7,9

324:20,23,24 325:16,19

326:17

cost-effective 26:17,19

46:13 59:20 184:23

220:7 240:10 264:18

cost-prohibitive 355:22

cough 77:2 171:16

council 67:13,15,16,19

67:21,24 68:5,7 69:18

72:7,12

Council's 68:1

Counsel 47:17

counter-productive 81:4

326:4

counties 32:2

counting 21:15 96:21

202:16

countries 89:11 150:2,7

country 31:18 32:2 36:10

43:20 44:1 80:16 82:7

90:6 92:17 117:23

120:3 121:11 125:11

126:16 142:19 143:14

165:22 167:13 168:18

172:21 173:9 249:20

251:17 252:6 254:12

297:1 338:10 339:13

county 109:11 120:4

124:6 284:9

couple 11:10 106:13

122:13 124:9 156:21

157:8,24 158:10,11,14

159:3 244:9 290:11

327:1 343:2

course 2:15 4:11 13:18

182:18 261:24 273:17

338:7 349:11

court 11:17 193:21

280:13

courtesy 143:11

cover 9:24 161:16 309:16

covered 15:1 68:16 148:7

152:1 202:23 210:7

320:13

covering 340:15

covers 156:11

COWOK 112:7

co-authored 340:4

co-founder 223:22

339:12,15

co-founders 339:8,9

CO2 253:10

crank 278:23

cranked 3:18

cranks 172:8

craziness 344:4

create 41:22 97:24

149:20 151:20 152:8

185:10,20 186:7 227:10

286:13 306:14 316:15

317:8 346:1 359:11

created 53:2 99:9 148:16

267:7 329:15 347:1

creates 26:7 79:7 82:14

146:1 216:13 286:22

creating 6:14 145:22

153:5 186:13 203:8

224:12 272:23

creation 81:8 273:1

creative 297:12

credibility 180:2

credible 138:20 139:9

141:10

credit 169:14

credits 353:15

creosote 142:12 145:6,21

146:1,16,23 147:2

286:23 345:16 346:1

crib 16:2 35:22 58:13

175:20 176:8 180:18,19
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

Page 8

181:2,15 215:17 224:17

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229:11 309:24

crisis 50:7 141:15

criteria 30:7 289:1 290:16

critical 149:10 153:1

175:8 203:1 207:13

213:4 240:24 297:16

critique 14:24

Crouch 90:2 95:20,20

351:4

crowd 252:18

crucial 141:4 192:11

crunch 115:14

crux 360:14

crystal 358:23

CSAB415.1-10 128:6

129:16

cubic 190:4 226:6,8

241:19 243:4

cuff 343:17

cuffs 343:17

Cullville 229:6

cultivating 53:1

culture 342:11,12,15

cumulative 45:6 97:3

curb 48:24

current 17:11 22:15 27:9

33:13 37:10,21 38:23

39:5 46:2,8,12,19 58:17

81:10 88:23 95:4 99:6

107:3 118:12 127:22

132:5 135:21 152:3

153:9,13,15,22 155:5

155:17 159:24 179:24

198:15 210:24 211:20

212:21,23 215:22

237:10 258:14,15,21

274:5 288:17 299:4

302:16 306:20 313:10

319:20 320:10 322:6,24

331:13 353:21 354:8,24

currently 8:24 10:3 16:5

16:23 28:22 69:16

70:24 93:24 128:9,15

133:8 136:16 153:2

167:13 191:1 196:6

200:6 202:1 209:14

210:19 211:4 215:24

234:18 241:20 259:16

260:20 276:12 298:9,11

301:14 304:7 311:7

320:5

Curt 2:9 6:24

customer 95:12 144:18

216:20 283:7 288:10,12

customers 52:21 54:2

63:13 64:18,19 103:1

113:5 185:24 249:10

250:7 288:15 289:3

305:10 313:18 319:5,12

336:7 345:13 347:19

customer's 344:18

cut 22:14 56:22 89:5 92:5

92:12,12 110:8 131:2

256:20

cutting 110:18

cycle 135:20 177:17

cyclones 158:18

Cystic 123:8

C-A-R-R-O-L-L 19:4

C-H-E-L-S-E-A 67:12

C-L-A-I-R-E 48:12

D

D 130:4 176:2,23 177:16

181:9 248:23

dads 92:4

daily 126:18 190:19

234:19 301:10

dairy 322:3

damage 155:3 287:15

damaged 144:16,17

300:2 345:9

damages 129:3

damp 105:12 135:13

damper 144:16 316:10

317:5,12 318:1 345:2

dampers 144:8

Dan 217:13 228:22

309:23

Dance 123:23

danger 147:1 148:20

dangerous 44:7 49:2

75:16 89:3 144:6

145:23

dangers 166:4

Daniel 223:20

dare 270:20

darker 143:10,13

data 10:17 15:16,21 16:9

18:8 20:15 81:11 98:5,8

98:11 114:10 129:17

130:17 154:7 174:23

175:1,18,24 176:9

178:1 180:7 181:6,16

220:6,12 223:6 274:19

275:14,23 276:4,11,15

276:18 308:19 334:8,13

353:23 354:4 355:4

database 176:14 181:22

270:15 318:9

date 23:9 46:6 302:1

303:11 304:24 305:8

314:3 358:15 360:17

Dave 140:17,20

David 55:20 61:7 233:7

239:20 246:3

day 13:16,18 51:2 52:21

83:8 92:20 135:4,8,19

151:4 172:9 173:22

221:20 278:18,22

295:12,18,20 344:1

353:4,19,20 357:6

364:12

days 3:21 50:4 74:20

87:24 92:4,8 99:4,9

129:13 133:16 173:22

190:5 241:23 242:8

287:13 315:16 330:23

deadline 22:4 36:3

137:24 237:24 239:14

deadly 74:3

deal 4:21 337:23

dealer 214:4 215:7 270:7

dealers 56:19 92:22

94:20 258:24 299:5

300:20 301:4,15,24

302:2,4 303:6,18 305:6

305:10 334:6

dealerships 257:18

dealing 344:4

dealt 254:21

dear 90:14

death 26:13 43:7 59:7

73:3 75:2 149:6 203:23

deaths 42:18

decade 47:13

decades 22:2 76:6 156:2

206:9 268:23 333:2

336:17

December 190:5

decided 5:18 143:21

166:21 316:14

decision 23:17 40:24

76:19 99:1 138:5

184:22 231:4 255:2

260:19 329:4 361:11

decline 103:10 114:11

143:19 235:20

decrease 102:3 150:18

198:4 199:8

decreased 26:15 203:23

decreases 102:22 149:5

199:19

dedicated 31:12 86:22

165:18 195:22 335:14

deed 169:11

deemed 356:14

Deer 294:1

default 278:19

defend 79:22

Defense 42:7,8

define 186:14 279:19,22

340:9

defined 159:5

definitely 93:12

definition 210:15 274:22

definitions 152:10

degradation 333:15

degraded 332:24

degree 330:10

degrees 255:10,12,17

Delaware 67:23

delay 43:1 44:20 76:3

99:21 132:7 144:18

179:8 204:22 205:12

delegates 353:2

delightful 90:16

delightfully 295:14

deliver 41:24 122:21

329:3

demand 197:22 200:23

221:21 324:6

demise 92:19

demographically 80:15

demographics 82:4

102:22

demonstrate 141:17

179:22 361:6

demonstrated 16:8 34:22

52:23 70:18 74:1 75:19

95:8 202:18 250:20

268:12 277:18

demonstrates 54:10

71:18 139:18

demonstrating 220:6

demonstration 198:22

199:2

denied 178:24

dense 49:12

densified 52:2

density 226:7,10 288:1

deny 336:17

DEP 341:17

department 25:6 30:24

75:7 78:13 87:14

113:15,15 131:22 132:3

151:19 187:16 195:20

202:13 239:21 304:7

305:22

departments 172:24

173:11

department's 241:4

depend 56:19 94:18

dependable 352:18

dependent 137:11

139:19 217:3

depending 186:9 207:20

231:12 287:17

depends 291:13

depleting 300:8

deposit 136:24 307:10

deposited 145:22

depressing 50:24

depth 124:7

Deputy 25:5

describe 11:7 193:11

257:9 260:4 266:11

279:17

described 283:5 356:6

describing 120:19

deserve 120:20 208:24

design 80:4 95:14 155:19

186:10 214:19 215:7

216:3 218:11 224:4

266:22 277:14 278:6

317:23 331:3,5 333:23

340:15 344:24

designed 22:9 55:3

134:12 162:17 219:21

315:8 320:17

designing 64:6 294:2

designs 84:3 185:4,14,17

220:7 266:16 277:18

278:2 296:3 297:24

302:20 328:19 331:13

desire 196:2 200:18

220:24 221:5 222:12

desired 222:16 224:19

desires 297:10

desist 188:22

desk 290:21

despite 72:5 185:6

197:22 259:10 306:21

310:4

destroy 115:20 169:20

detail 97:12 114:18

detailed 11:3 30:18 55:14

details 139:7 306:7

detectors 289:15,15

deterioration 333:11

determine 63:9 84:13

219:24 331:20

determined 34:21 148:13

177:1 190:10 277:6

331:20

determines 285:14

determining 34:23

176:15 181:22

detrimental 64:14 226:1

devastate 258:22

devastating 270:4

develop 23:21 35:16 39:6

57:16 87:19 114:15

131:12 152:10 154:10

161:1 218:17 229:17

230:9 232:20 238:21

258:6 260:16 264:14

311:15 312:21 313:15

328:12

developed 26:20 53:3,12

55:10 56:1,4 83:1

105:11 170:12 180:7

231:21 237:12

developing 29:22 48:18

57:3,9 186:2 207:7

222:13 224:2 261:7

299:8 304:9

development 17:5 88:8

102:16 103:11 140:9

141:19 155:12 187:8

224:4 236:15 239:7

245:14,22 249:7 261:23

266:10 308:13 330:24

developmental 203:24

develops 311:16

device 29:23 33:6 45:3

45:11 80:22 81:22

148:7 150:12 151:17

157:4 225:23 317:16

349:12

devices 10:5 25:12,17,23

32:21 33:2,12,16 34:3

34:14 45:4,6 46:4,10

47:3,7,21 50:18 73:15

73:18,22 76:5,10 77:20

79:4,24 81:11 82:20

87:11 89:6 148:4,15,17

149:14,18 150:22

151:13,21,22 152:1,4

152:12,23 153:4 154:6

154:13,14 155:18,24

156:23 160:2,10 188:15

188:18 190:24 191:8

192:9 202:23 203:6

204:19 206:4 237:9

242:19 296:22 307:23

308:1

diabetes 77:11

diabetics 189:24

diagnosed 169:2 170:24

204:7
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HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

Page 9

dictated 315:22

die 169:19 341:5

diesel 219:22 228:8

difference 96:13 118:24

177:12 316:23

differences 80:2 277:15

308:22 329:12

different 20:20 23:7,7

60:6 65:10 91:5,6

118:16 147:22 157:24

158:1,10,15 159:21

176:7 181:14 214:15

230:8 254:24 260:6

261:22 262:3,4,12

266:23 271:7 275:12

276:16 285:7,12,24

311:14,24 329:7,9

335:6,7,10 355:18

differently 286:17

difficult 16:3 33:1 56:9

115:23 177:14 263:6

281:20 282:12

difficulties 152:15

difficulty 82:19 85:9

dig 231:16

digital 140:21 141:2

dilution 317:14,24

dimensions 82:11

diminish 103:16 325:17

diminishing 66:8 200:9

dioxin 32:11

Dircks 217:12,18,19,20

222:22 223:1,7,14

direct 25:24 43:21 148:21

171:21 271:23 334:19

directed 81:24 112:23

331:11

directing 116:3

direction 88:14 94:7

185:3 204:22 262:8

342:1 361:6

directions 24:22 207:18

342:2

directly 30:7 74:19 77:24

127:11 128:24 213:6

257:16 273:16 282:24

282:24 283:1

director 7:4,19 19:5

51:18 88:1 95:20 126:8

131:21 179:15 187:13

202:12 253:8 318:21

340:6

Dirigo 209:7,13,20,23

210:4,12,19 211:1,6,12

213:4,8

dirt 225:4

dirtier 17:17 191:5 232:9

264:22 272:14

dirty 18:14,18 38:7,10

49:2 60:24 200:12,24

232:12,14 265:18

272:10 309:17 326:12

dirty-burning 200:4

265:12

disadvantage 82:15

211:11 244:19

disadvantaged 328:17

disadvantages 260:14

disagree 255:15

disagrees 83:21

disappear 198:9

disappointed 97:15

98:12 118:2 219:15

263:23

disasters 253:10

disbelief 91:8

disclosures 169:7

discourage 81:3 336:10

discovered 92:12 338:17

discredit 283:17

discussed 15:22 114:18

discussion 259:2 353:5

discussions 254:18,20

322:20

dise 111:24

disease 9:4 26:14 73:3,6

75:3,8,9 77:11 149:7

189:24 204:8

diseases 9:4 73:5 77:9

203:12 204:10

disenfranchised 107:14

disengage 104:12,17

282:21

disincentives 81:8

disingenuous 37:23

dismissal 95:3

dismissed 268:18

dispensing 308:19

dispersion 242:24

displaces 184:24

display 54:1

displayed 316:6

disposable 201:9

disproportionately 211:5

distant 91:10

distinction 204:4 262:9

301:21

distinguish 261:9

distinguishes 197:16

distortions 281:1

distributed 338:9

distributes 357:14

distribution 36:21 218:5

distributions 325:11

distributor 136:22

distributors 14:17 259:1

334:6

district 31:8 251:19

districts 39:21,22 188:21

Disturbingly 64:1

diversified 114:19 148:10

divide 265:13

division 7:5,20 87:15

131:21 187:14

docket 12:18 156:10

290:15 348:6

doctor 169:18

document 350:20

doing 39:9 108:14 122:14

166:17 312:7 314:10

344:8 349:14

dollar 9:13 216:24 220:22

dollars 5:23 19:20 26:21

26:24 27:1 40:16 42:19

45:23 56:18 57:9 101:2

108:7 112:7,8 132:20

198:3 215:10 249:12

252:24 256:18 258:6

262:20 265:9 307:3

311:10 325:7,8 326:19

326:20,24 361:2

domestic 150:21

domestically 183:20

domestically-produced

151:1

Dominion 5:21

donate 105:24 106:20

donated 106:10,22

done 6:4 98:14 103:8

156:15 173:5 191:13

222:20,24 223:1 230:7

241:7,15 242:4 243:6

273:13,18,23 278:4

289:13 315:2,3 349:8

354:1

door 13:22,23 60:23

170:23 174:20 194:17

296:15

doors 23:19 49:15 173:18

296:16

Dorchester 123:18

Doris 90:17

DOT 304:12,14

double 143:2 175:24

181:7,9 249:7

doubled 91:15 307:15

doubles 58:14

doubling 176:2

douglas 154:8

Dover 298:22 318:18,19

318:21 322:1,9,13,21

323:16

down 111:11 112:9,16

121:17 135:14 143:24

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draft 79:4 228:1 264:4

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HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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179:19 186:22 188:2

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A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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gasoline 219:21 228:9

gas-burning 217:24

gas-heating 248:20

gathering 126:1

gauge 264:12 292:1

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general 58:16 136:15

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grew 51:8 92:17,17 184:4

grid 143:21

grids 157:20

gross 216:3 280:24

ground 158:14 339:12

group 63:8 106:20

166:21 234:12 238:18

238:23 257:6 332:1

groups 47:12 48:22

157:24 254:19 255:24

267:23 271:1

grow 45:7 109:4 113:6

115:7,18 151:11

growing 69:9 72:1 88:11

117:15 203:2 236:20

339:17

grown 63:2 73:22 114:21

growth 49:22 63:3 115:20

187:9

guarantee 129:16 244:3

guess 270:20 346:2

guideline 291:5

guidelines 220:22 291:2

Guild 141:22,24 284:12

338:6 343:4

gullible 281:1

gun 106:5

guys 275:9 306:18 321:9

323:18 346:11 347:20

G-O-L-D-M-A-N 14:13

G3 224:10

H

H 248:10

Haggard 100:6,7,9

half 38:18 50:1 56:22

63:22 72:24 97:3

132:13,13 133:9 198:13

242:10 264:17 346:8

Hall 1:17 2:13

Hallowell 156:4,6,7

halt 17:23

Hampshire 6:7 44:4

86:20,21,24 87:4,13,22

88:2 131:22 132:3,9,17

133:5,8,13 136:23

274:14 275:9 298:22

299:2 300:11,14,15,19

300:22 303:3 304:7,12

304:14 357:13

Hampshire's 132:12,21

hand 105:20 295:15

296:2 337:16,16 358:5

358:11 359:4 364:12

handled 99:10

handling 112:1

handout 132:15

handouts 11:3 132:15

hands 252:20 309:17

339:6

hands-on 229:12

hang 120:7,9 276:3,5

hanging 263:7

Hannah 140:17,19,20

happen 16:21 17:24

89:15 100:17 101:7

216:18 222:4 256:17

263:15

happened 100:23 171:23

173:4 315:4

happening 156:18 158:9

338:16

happens 77:20 172:21

182:10 287:2,5 360:20

happy 13:20 117:7

122:18 244:20 284:22

288:9 290:18

hard 2:21 4:21 37:6 58:20

112:1 132:1 140:20

141:1 197:5 248:24

250:12 348:20 360:23

harder 78:1

hardly 165:24

hardship 6:15

hardware 296:15

Hardy 55:24

harm 75:3,19 77:4 87:16

208:18

harmed 167:22 168:7,10

harmful 3:23 32:6 42:17

43:7 47:9 69:6 71:24

72:8 74:5 75:11 77:23

89:8 93:19 155:1

203:10

Harmon 218:3

harms 165:19 167:17

harsh 83:18 254:10

harvested 236:4

harvesting 236:9

hate 130:23 131:3

hated 90:20

having 5:3 18:7 172:12

204:5,7 210:22 220:6

244:2 271:23 289:12,21

305:14 332:17 350:4

360:16

havoc 286:23

hawthorn 342:7

hazard 166:14 300:7

hazardous 48:24 74:8

87:9

hazards 141:7 145:17

head 90:22 305:15

heading 262:7

headquartered 67:20

161:14 217:22

headquarters 348:21

health 3:14,24 4:6,8 5:15

9:2,11,15 15:4 16:13

25:19,22 26:12,17,23

35:2 36:10 42:20 43:2

45:13,22 47:11,15

48:15,23 49:9,11,13,19

68:3,10,23 69:5 74:5

75:23 78:2 85:12 89:16

122:23 123:13,13,14,19

123:21,23 124:1,2,21

124:22 125:11 133:6

134:10 140:3 148:16,18

149:3,9,10 153:5,10

165:16,18,19 166:11,14

166:18 168:19,24

172:14,15 173:10

186:18 188:1,16,21,23

189:1,16,20 191:17

203:8,9,21 206:10

208:22,24 233:13 234:7

235:1,3,11 237:6 239:8

241:5,15,24 242:1,14

243:7,13 246:21 274:23

343:22

healthcare 40:22 41:17

104:3

healthier 77:14

healthy 73:1,1 77:4 123:1

123:10,11,20,20 233:16

334:4

health-based 32:4

306:22

health-protective 47:20

48:2 77:17 88:20

hear 7:17 24:24 85:22

144:9 165:14 172:20

182:14 281:3

heard 19:7 61:6 80:21

84:4,23 105:6 118:15

119:11 121:7 124:8

141:14 147:21 148:9

157:15 158:17 201:17

213:5 221:20 228:11

251:18,21 252:12 253:7

272:5 331:6,7 343:12

hearing 1:8 2:4 10:20,20

11:7 12:19 18:24 72:16

193:12 194:22 228:15

239:23 253:7 343:6

363:13,16

heart 4:10 9:3 26:12,14

26:14 105:24 149:7,7

171:20 172:1 189:24

203:12 339:21 346:9

heartened 166:12

hearth 14:14 18:10 19:6

36:19 90:9 95:21 105:2

174:10 217:21 222:8

248:10,15 258:20 268:9

323:23 324:21 330:8

342:16 352:23

hearths 294:6

Hearthstone 61:8,8,12

64:16 65:9 244:11

246:11

Hearthstone's 62:14

hearts 208:24 341:15

heat 19:13 25:12 38:3

42:23 51:9 57:2 60:20

61:17,19 87:4 88:18

92:1,20 95:16 101:8,9

109:16,16 117:15,17,22

120:24 125:21 127:9

133:7 137:2 149:23

160:8 172:6 196:22

199:4 201:7 217:4

218:2 225:8 236:5

240:5 248:6,9,15

250:10 251:14 252:18

252:22 253:3 254:9

278:21 282:2 295:1,3

295:19 296:1,9 297:10

298:14 299:15,17,20

304:13 313:21 337:9

Heatalator 218:2

heated 143:9 285:18

286:8 295:9

heater 2:18 4:15 5:4 7:12

10:7 56:2 57:4,10 70:7

70:22 72:6 78:17 98:14

154:3 214:5 216:7,15

216:17 277:18 294:4,10

296:4,12 300:4,6

301:20 302:20 303:1

306:2 314:20 317:1,4

318:3 339:8,10 340:6

340:11 341:21 358:12

361:12

heaters 1:10 3:9,12 4:24

5:6 8:2,6,9,10,14,18,19

8:23 10:2,12,16 28:17

28:18 31:5,21 33:4,18

33:20 34:1 36:9 49:6,7

50:17 51:16 57:17,24

59:13 60:15,24 61:15

68:11,16,19,20,24

69:10,13,15 70:16 71:2

71:8,15,17 72:1,1,10

73:11 77:18 87:3 89:18

96:2 97:9,10 129:7

152:5,23 162:10 167:12

182:4,7 187:23 188:4,4

188:9 190:24 191:3,7

197:17 202:15 205:3

208:2 214:7 233:20

234:3,5,8,17 236:13,17

236:19 237:4,13 238:6

239:2,4 248:17 293:23

294:3,13,20 295:12,22

296:21 297:20 298:11

298:24 299:2,12,13,18

299:21 300:1,13,15

301:9,17,18,24 302:4,6

302:14 303:7,9,10,21

303:22 304:15,19 305:3

307:23 311:21 312:22

313:20 321:18 335:21

337:8,19 339:22 341:17

341:20 342:14 357:4

358:8 359:12 361:17

363:14

heating 27:9 28:3 41:19
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Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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185:15,22 186:15,20

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297:13 299:23 300:9

309:19 319:11 332:19

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heavily 211:24 251:13

heavily-emitting 72:9

heaving 171:18

Hedrick 48:10 51:12,13

51:16

heed 269:8

height 291:6,15 345:3

Heikki 340:5

held 88:3 91:9 145:8

252:15 256:5,6 339:22

Hello 161:10 165:14

233:8 248:4,7 342:21

357:10

help 5:24 11:17 13:7,20

19:23 26:16 42:22 66:4

96:9 113:2 115:1 116:6

117:23 119:17 121:20

121:23 124:24 138:10

160:11 167:24 171:1

172:2,3 173:22 184:19

248:13 256:5 292:2

328:16 349:3,14 350:3

helped 29:4

helpful 322:22 323:17

332:5

helping 107:4 122:1,2

335:14

Helpro 218:3

helps 54:2,5 240:19

hemlock 342:4

Henry 217:13,14 222:18

223:18,19,20 229:2

231:2 233:2

Henry's 309:23

her 33:7 171:1 192:24

hesitate 108:24

hesitation 41:1

hey 112:5

HHT 218:7 220:1

Hi 42:5 265:21

high 40:23 70:5 137:20

145:4,19 146:20 149:14

153:23 200:18 207:18

216:22 219:3 220:15

226:20 232:9,14 233:24

246:6,17,19 269:14

273:2 278:9 280:3

282:1 285:20,20 297:2

325:2,19 326:5

higher 29:18 38:4 77:1

114:3 191:19 220:21

237:1 319:9 324:16

325:10,13,15,16 326:6

327:8 332:20 334:10

351:14

highest 70:13 204:5

207:10,20,21 246:7

359:6

highlight 187:20

highly 166:1 267:9

282:22

highly-controlled 16:4

highly-efficient 137:8

high-cost 28:6

high-efficiency 137:14

155:4 184:11 271:13

high-emission 219:9

high-emitting 148:17

high-end 326:21

high-energy 61:21

high-level 137:22 153:12

high-moisture 310:2

high-performance

278:15

high-polluting 208:10

222:2

high-quality 139:20

211:8 213:16 339:2

high-rate 207:18

high-tech 12:5 64:2

Hill 294:1

hills 123:10 275:9

him 13:6 251:20

hinder 119:17

hire 168:8

historian 90:17

Historically 262:5 264:3

history 15:6 72:24 101:10

102:1 113:20 124:21

143:4 209:13 358:20

hit 108:4 114:13 232:11

hitting 292:23

hokum 259:5

hold 264:22 315:12

347:18

holding 239:23

hole 317:21

holes 316:16,17,18

Holland 100:13

home 5:5 16:14 26:9

50:22 52:5 56:13 91:14

106:11 108:17,22,22

109:1 120:24 127:4,9

127:12 135:9 148:24

154:19 167:3,8 169:4,9

169:20 170:1,4,6,9

171:3,5 184:3,5 196:22

197:12 199:5 203:4

204:15 217:21 222:8

230:15 233:3,19 285:23

289:11 294:4 300:7

309:3,19 337:11 344:18

homeless 106:14,16

homemade 249:19

homeowner 27:19 56:12

146:6 287:1,5,8

homeowners 75:14 80:9

83:15 88:18,24 89:13

140:10 142:22 145:2,10

145:23 254:7 289:19

334:9 349:23

homeowner's 79:22

homes 2:23 4:23,23 10:4

19:12 22:16 25:12 33:3

38:3,22 39:11 42:23

49:16,17 50:19 52:14

57:2 62:9,9 76:14,22,23

77:24 82:7,13,17 87:4

88:19 91:24 92:21

95:16 96:15 101:9

109:7,13,16 116:14

131:7 137:2 138:11

143:8 161:22 166:23

167:1 170:6 173:19

208:5 221:1 236:23

242:20 249:17 251:15

252:22 254:4 298:14

313:21 344:1

homework 249:24

home-based 321:2

home-heating 79:24

221:12

Honda 157:6

honest 280:2 331:1

honestly 125:23

honored 294:11 352:24

hook 64:18

hooked 322:3

hope 97:19 98:8,9,11

103:4 117:1 136:10

205:24 230:6 283:13

297:18 306:10

hopeful 82:3

hopefully 2:23 232:18

310:15

hopes 282:4

hoping 280:18 315:3

horrendous 16:16

horse 171:17 172:9

hospital 204:12

hospitalizations 50:2

hostage 91:9

hot 3:20 233:20 295:15

295:20 315:13 316:23

hotline 50:7

hotter 286:13

hour 29:12,13 34:17

37:22 58:12 62:23 70:4

70:11,12 77:2 118:13

118:22,23 190:4 198:7

198:13 199:19 200:15

200:16 218:23 220:9

229:20,21,22,24 231:11

231:12 249:8 258:12

259:12 262:22 263:17

264:1 271:18 284:24

289:6 313:13 322:11

324:12 325:23 326:14

326:15,16 332:20

353:10 355:6,7,11

hourly 168:11 190:19

243:3

hours 153:18 173:21

295:7

hour-and-a-half 352:7

house 10:7 76:17 160:7

169:12 171:9 172:5,11

173:14 197:10 251:5

265:4 284:15 315:19

317:18 322:3 344:8

households 133:6

236:10

houses 133:10 167:5

280:13 288:13 315:17

housing 82:6 104:2

Howard 90:19

Howe 333:9

HPBA 15:6,13,15 18:1,10

19:7 57:18 59:8 95:22

96:1,8 97:6 143:17

330:22 353:3

huge 16:18 153:16 214:8

259:19

human 45:13 68:9 74:5

165:16 166:11 172:14

197:4 233:13 235:11

hundred 19:20 22:3 27:2

157:7 198:3 249:12

255:13,21 265:15 325:7

325:8 326:19

hundreds 42:18 74:23

188:10 260:2 326:19

334:24 361:1

hurdle 326:6

hurdles 37:14 325:4

hurricanes 253:11

hurt 197:22 254:3 256:23

270:7

hurting 256:2

hurts 111:13

husband 170:12

Hussong 245:3 248:4,5,8

HVAC 128:1

hybrid 278:2,9,15 335:19

hybrids 159:14

HydraFire 218:2

hydrocarbons 32:10

71:13 203:17

hydronic 8:8 33:18 56:2

57:10,17 59:12 60:24

68:19 69:10 70:6,16,22

71:1,8,15,17 72:1,9

97:9 98:13 129:7

152:23 154:3 182:4,7

187:23 188:4,8 190:24

191:2,7 205:3 208:2

214:5,6 216:7,14,17

233:20 234:5 236:19

237:4,13 298:23 299:1

299:12,18,21 300:4,6

300:13,15 301:8,16,17

301:20,23 302:4,6,14

302:19 303:1,7,20

304:15,19 305:3 311:21

312:22 313:19 317:6

320:12 358:7,12 359:12

361:12,17

hydronics 105:7

Hyytiainen 340:5

H-E-D-R-I-C-K 51:17

H-U-S-S-O-N-G 248:5

I

ICC 196:21

Ice 294:19

idea 95:16 116:2 120:11

127:3 175:17 202:2

250:5 272:6 282:7

283:17

ideas 96:23 98:8 249:1,2

348:9,9 349:14 350:3

350:19

identify 54:3 141:7 155:6

ignition 227:12

ignorant 280:17

ignored 97:14

IHP 38:16

II 105:21 106:6

ill 330:19

illegal 317:24

illness 167:3

illnesses 149:5

illusion 272:19

illustrates 135:7

image 337:15

imagine 171:8 250:16

263:14 293:12 360:23

immediate 41:14 192:10

immediately 47:19 305:1

immunogenic 203:19

immunological 203:24

impact 20:5,7 23:24 24:2

49:18 76:19 97:3,8

100:16 112:19 113:23

113:23 115:2 154:20

189:20 196:15 204:20

218:24 238:14 298:16

319:12

impacted 167:2 262:23

307:6

impactful 112:9

impacting 50:13

impacts 32:16 35:2 68:3

97:10,12 117:10 151:11

189:16 203:8 208:6,11

220:18 235:5 242:15

244:8,15 246:21 258:17

262:17

impede 187:8

impeded 270:2

imperative 93:13 155:24

implement 30:16 163:11

237:14 238:21 308:11

implementation 149:9

165:4,7 185:20 213:5

245:15,20,22 247:13

277:3 314:4

implemented 40:5 53:2

350:17

implementing 76:3

152:21 247:18 304:4

implies 281:19

importance 32:22 44:16

154:21 218:7 238:24

245:14 246:22 289:23

important 6:21 25:9 28:7
A80197F

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Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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imposes 134:14,15

impossible 169:3 177:14

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improperly 146:1 188:14

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47:24 89:10 92:9

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227:3 239:8 279:6

308:14 329:21

improvement 17:3 37:13

218:8 227:6 243:13

247:2 263:3 278:16

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improvements 29:24

32:20 34:10 73:11

98:18 99:21 150:14,20

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improving 3:11 25:22

31:12 62:13 64:23 66:9

73:2 324:14 329:16

346:11

inaccuracy 130:14

inaccurate 276:13

inadvertently 38:6

inappropriate 261:4

inaudible 253:7

Inc 165:17

incapable 268:14

incentive 28:1 86:6

185:21 207:4 302:5

317:9

incentives 6:9,9 82:21

83:2 86:1 159:20

160:24 161:7 200:11

205:10 353:13

incentivise 29:20

incentivised 325:18

inch 225:11 285:22

inches 317:3 318:4

inch-and-a-half 314:19

incidents 43:15

include 8:19 20:24 74:6

76:8 85:4 87:7 89:12

96:3 203:14 218:2

261:4 263:20,23 290:16

291:18 320:11 334:5

included 115:6 153:18

234:6 236:20 243:18

261:1 263:18 291:23

297:8 331:15

includes 33:17 162:17

281:7 308:12 309:11

335:1

including 4:10 8:7 26:13

30:12 32:7 33:24 39:16

44:3,7 46:10 49:21

51:23 52:4 55:9 64:2

69:2 83:13 97:21 152:4

161:19 184:5 188:4

189:5,23 195:21 234:4

234:16 274:16 298:5

316:14

inclusion 54:8,21 55:8

68:18 236:18

inclusive 152:8

income 63:15 80:17

201:10 247:9

incomes 77:12

incomplete 219:24

inconsistently-regulated

319:24

incorporate 30:5,11

41:14 84:14 295:8

Incorporated 213:23

357:12

incorporating 207:12

incorrect 196:14 197:19

increase 17:1 23:23

50:15 85:8 97:5 99:18

102:20 126:12 127:2,19

138:10 143:5 144:3

145:18,21 155:2 177:2

177:16 200:23 212:14

227:1,7 263:11 278:13

278:24 279:1 325:14

345:10,16

increased 27:16 37:15

43:13,14 58:20 59:20

63:1 66:3 75:6,7 77:2

82:17,19 102:14,15,16

104:2,2,3 133:12

143:14 150:15 200:20

203:7 204:11 206:21

213:1 219:1,2 324:23

345:14

increases 9:17 59:19

126:14,18,21,24 149:4

219:6 221:6,7 264:21

increasing 38:19 154:18

154:21 177:3 200:9

221:24 235:15

increasingly 28:3

incredible 346:18

incremental 38:8 59:11

59:16

incumbent 84:8

incurred 168:20

incurring 185:17

indeed 6:10 47:16 82:14

independence 92:6

independent 143:22

178:2 210:1 323:23

independently 137:18

Indiana 169:15

indicate 280:14

indicated 238:9

indicates 83:10 154:7

177:19 238:10

indication 60:7

indirectly 127:13

indiscernible 258:3

individual 70:1,5,13

235:9 277:17,23

individually 235:12

individuals 47:10 69:2

Indonesia 93:17

indoor 2:24 3:1 8:7 10:15

33:14 69:11 74:10

76:11,19,22 96:14

167:11,23 171:11 182:9

182:17 216:7 299:19,24

300:1,9 362:1,2,3,4

indoors 152:16

indoor/outdoor 152:6,6

indulge 279:12

industrial 49:3 56:6

195:12 319:4,10,22

320:19 330:13

industries 75:23 235:19

278:7 352:13

industry 15:1,19 16:11

18:10 21:14 35:13 37:6

38:17 40:5 41:20 42:2

51:23 52:3,6,24 53:4

55:1,10 57:19 59:21

76:3 79:9 84:23 93:10

95:4,7,14 100:1,18

101:1,24 103:10,14

104:13 105:2 108:2

118:15 122:2 124:17

125:6,19 129:10 132:19

138:17 139:10 141:15

141:19 142:7,18 151:11

154:22 156:19 164:24

165:1,11 172:22 183:12

185:6,12,15 186:21

196:3,15 217:2 224:7,9

227:16 229:5 231:22

232:16,19 244:6 246:24

247:16,19 256:16,23

257:22 258:20,23

262:17 268:10,24

279:11,15 306:5 308:3

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Jay 92:10

Jeff 67:10 72:17 156:4,7

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joint 296:12 359:9

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Jotul 257:6,8,13,21 258:4

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kakelugn 337:15

Katrina 143:20

kay 91:20

Kearns 90:17

Keene 6:6 133:15 134:2

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114:7 133:1 139:23

173:20 185:22 212:21

228:15 240:16,19

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109:12 117:19 309:20

keeps 247:22 327:8

Kelly 310:23 311:1,3

kept 62:12 208:3 315:19

Kerry 93:20

Kerry's 255:4

key 19:24 20:10,18 28:13

146:3 218:21 220:5

277:15

Keystone 93:21

kid 360:10

kids 45:20 88:2,6 92:5

110:9 149:1

kill 59:21 217:2 254:3

305:18

kiln 314:10,13,14 315:7

kiln-dried 35:22,22

kind 105:10 106:23 107:6

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Klear 311:23

Klein 36:14,16,17

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6:21 13:4,6,10,11 20:16

21:7,8 24:21 28:19 39:3

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91:11 92:1 96:1,18

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118:17 120:18 127:23

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135:13 146:12 173:16

173:16 182:21 197:4,14

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309:18,22 310:3 312:11

321:10,16 322:2 323:2

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knowledgeable 268:8

known 8:8,11 33:18

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Kozy 248:6,7,8,14

Kuhfahl 55:20 61:4,5,7

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K-L-E-I-N 36:17

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label 120:14,15,21 356:23

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laboratory 16:4 57:6

174:23 176:3,11 178:2

179:15,16 181:10,18

210:1,16 211:19 220:2

318:9 359:9

labs 58:24 176:5 181:12

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lack 71:11,11,12 176:9

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ladies 257:3

laid 247:15

Lake 74:21

Lakes 233:18

Lakeville 217:22

land 233:17 240:16

landmark 74:1

lands 91:10 240:16

language 175:22 181:4

222:10 297:21

lanterns 295:21

large 9:12 19:14 21:5

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103:13 124:1 189:21

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322:16 326:2 334:3

largely 296:14

larger 43:24 210:14,20

largest 25:24 39:1 43:21

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lieu 169:11

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Lime 357:12

limit 11:21 37:22 69:22

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89:7 128:9,11 129:21

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liner 328:5

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linked 4:7 6:13 75:5

links 204:9

lint 282:18

liquid 158:12

Lisa 140:18 147:12

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listed 63:18 146:8 212:15

listen 7:23 116:24

listening 90:23

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liter 241:22

literally 160:1 173:21

literature 111:23

little 11:22,24 20:17

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116:6 146:5 173:9

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212:11 220:16 253:21

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330:9 335:3 338:17

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Liu 36:15 42:5,6

live 18:20 26:10 50:17

120:24 149:1 166:23

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livelihood 347:11

liver 149:6

lives 4:13 45:16 50:13

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living 90:6 149:6 168:19

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294:5 337:13 338:24

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loading 160:3 229:9

296:15

loadings 15:3 17:8

loads 273:19

load-bearing 265:17,17

loans 328:15

lobbying 283:14

local 31:17 32:13 39:11

74:20 93:9 173:10

184:18 188:21 208:1,4

208:13 243:1 305:24

318:7 351:1

locally-available 184:23

locally-harvested 62:4

locally-sourced 65:18

located 14:15 56:15

209:9 257:15 266:18

274:13 294:1

location 76:16

locations 100:12 204:14

log 161:22

loggers 256:18

logical 39:22

logs 315:18

long 5:16 15:6 35:10

42:14 68:12 73:13

75:13 91:14 108:2

124:21 142:14 148:2

149:11 153:20 168:13

202:15,22 205:4 214:11

232:4 244:23,23 245:18

245:23 289:3 295:12

307:12 312:8 340:2

longer 51:3 75:22 194:7

221:8 226:11 263:8

269:22 316:15 335:3

longest 303:24

longest-running 62:14

longevity 332:1,5

long-burning 282:22

long-range 335:19

long-standing 240:12

long-term 27:8 77:7

236:7 240:6 331:24

long-time 48:18

look 20:16 36:5 51:2

55:13 80:18 102:1,5,22

104:6 110:4 116:13

117:9 121:24 124:24

143:9 158:1 159:4,11

160:1 166:22 177:24

196:24 201:3 255:21

269:6 273:20 331:12

looked 159:24 254:16

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319:6 323:1 327:20

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loopholes 152:11 244:1

lose 256:17

loses 226:20

losing 168:6 173:7

loss 101:22 102:4 144:1

171:9 286:20

losses 168:19

lost 45:16 102:11 112:2,3

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270:5 299:14

lot 2:22 5:15 19:23 65:6

90:10 91:2 101:23

105:6 110:11 117:4,4

118:18 119:11,24 121:7

156:18 157:9,11 158:1

158:5,7,18 159:8,15

168:24 169:18 172:14

182:12 229:5 240:2

248:15 249:19 250:13

253:24 259:2 280:22

287:11,16 289:24 328:3

328:8 331:13 344:11

lots 133:1 272:5 307:16

loud 356:19

love 127:3 197:5,14

246:1,12,13 321:12

323:7 344:5

loves 342:18

low 15:22 27:10 62:7

77:11 111:16 142:21

149:14 153:21 157:23

207:18 220:9 232:4,8

232:12 262:18 264:7

269:5 275:3 277:19

283:16 288:8 328:15

353:16,16 354:16,20

lower 18:5 34:16 45:18

46:19,22 62:6 109:24

117:20 140:2,5,7 147:7

177:24 191:20 198:8

201:12 214:12,13

219:23 226:11 228:17

232:7 247:8 279:6

326:3

lowering 17:19,22 41:17

lowers 27:7

lower-cost 63:4

lower-emitting 130:5

lower-income 38:2

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lowest 145:9 207:10

267:1 271:19

low-carbon 240:10

low-emissions 271:12

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low-energy 328:14

low-income 41:19 43:9

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lucky 244:9

lumber 53:8 161:20,20

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lunch 12:20 183:3 192:18

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lung 9:4 26:13,15 39:17

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73:8 75:19 76:7 77:9,15

122:17 124:9 149:5,7

202:10 203:12,23,24

204:7,10 208:12 265:10

lungs 26:12 87:16 208:24

Lupo 253:17 255:15

L-I-U 42:6

M

machine 12:5 95:15

106:5 282:15

mad 91:18

made 25:15 64:23 97:23

98:17 109:19 112:24

113:11 114:14 116:16

125:1,4 128:19 130:11

130:13 167:14 179:13

191:10 201:21 209:20

233:22 234:22 248:18

288:7 302:23 312:21

339:4

magic 291:13

magnetic 339:23

magnitude 20:18 188:24

main 13:24,24 14:5 92:24

125:21 200:11 296:8

Maine 78:13,18 79:1

80:14 82:5 83:21 85:3

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nationally 32:1 39:21

56:19 327:15

nations 44:12 93:18

nationwide 26:1 42:9,16

63:17 89:7 139:11

142:2 183:11 221:16

native 93:16

natural 127:12,16 151:7

184:6 191:9 206:15

227:13 253:10 268:1

315:14

naturally 23:24 62:2

nature 268:2 359:2

near 155:13 166:23 167:5

167:18 168:19 215:20

230:11 236:23 314:1

nearby 69:17

nearly 49:24 50:1 132:12

132:13 206:22 267:3

necessarily 31:16 86:6

96:24 277:21 291:13,22

347:10,24

necessary 68:8 141:8

148:14 164:23 285:1

329:11

necessity 55:9

need 25:14 69:14 77:13

80:17 83:1 94:10 96:3

99:14 105:9,10,17

107:1 112:6,18 116:14

118:11 121:5,12,20,22

129:18 149:17 158:21

159:10 161:3,5 175:5

184:14 197:13 207:22

260:5 264:3 273:3

297:23 298:3 301:11

312:20 321:2 327:5

328:22 349:7 350:18

352:10 353:7 361:5

needed 18:8 25:21 46:13

115:15 126:3 172:6

205:12 221:10 222:4

267:7 328:22

Needing 339:15

needs 79:11 102:23

103:11 112:20 119:9

124:3 131:2 133:13

164:24 185:19 191:12

205:9 262:3 299:24

319:2 349:11

negative 37:18 142:15

158:7 186:24 211:5

342:17

neglected 147:3

negotiate 94:13 170:11

negotiation 275:1

neighbor 51:1,2 168:7,11

169:20 309:11

neighborhood 50:10

118:24 121:1,2,14

123:19 182:11

neighborhoods 26:9

69:17 119:1 148:24

204:15

neighboring 300:18

neighbors 50:11 121:4

166:19,23 168:6 171:12

172:7 188:8 204:18

206:6 315:16

neighbor's 169:4,16

170:7 171:4 173:19

neither 124:13 227:15

232:15 301:22

Nelson 233:7,8,9 240:1

NERA 59:9

NESCAUM 39:18 136:9

147:13,16 151:14 152:7

154:23 155:11,20

187:18 242:6 243:5

NESCAUM's 30:19

187:19

Nest 157:14 160:20

net 59:13 140:5 249:13

network 162:18 165:8

214:4 334:8

Neufeld 352:9,10,11

neutral 60:13 127:6,17

158:6

never 90:22 168:23

215:20 269:23 283:8

341:20 345:22

new 1:10,15 2:9,17,21 3:8

3:18 4:17,24 6:1,5,6,22

7:12,24 8:4,6,22 9:9,13

10:11 16:1,2,10,14

18:13,15 20:3 22:20

23:8,21 31:4,5,21 33:11

33:13,17,24 38:4,7,10

38:22 39:10 42:13 44:4

48:22 49:5 51:15 52:17

59:2 64:21 65:23 67:22

73:10,23 75:14 76:11

76:11,13 78:17 80:9

82:18 86:20,21,24 87:2

87:4,13,22 88:2,8,15

89:1,17,19 92:14,22

93:5 97:2,5,24 98:7

99:15 100:17 101:17

102:1,9 104:12 112:23

113:3,4 114:3,15

123:17 126:16 129:12

131:22 132:2,9,11,17

132:20 133:5,7,12

136:16,20,23,23,24

137:16 138:4,9,19,22

142:1 145:19 146:20

147:4,6,7 148:1,7

157:16 159:1,9 160:24

162:10 165:20 166:14

173:2 179:10 183:10,24

185:17 186:2 191:2,16

192:2 193:10 198:4

200:2,6,16,21,22

201:13 202:14,17 204:2

207:6 214:11,13 218:20

219:22 222:1 224:4

234:2 239:4 240:3

245:15,23 246:22 250:1

250:7,9,17 251:9

257:23 259:12 261:10

263:5 272:15 273:24

274:14,16,21 275:9

278:2,17 284:7 293:22

297:17 298:22 299:2,9

300:11,14,15,19,22

302:19 303:2,13 304:7

304:12,14 316:3 320:3

323:1 324:11 327:14

329:5,23 330:2 332:21

333:13 338:19 346:17

357:13 359:14

newer 24:8 81:18 82:23

85:6 158:20 185:23

newest 299:16

newly-covered 34:3

news 126:18 252:14

newsletter 338:5,7

newspaper 287:7

new-generation 58:4

next 24:18 25:2 36:13

44:24 45:16 48:9 50:17

55:19 67:9 78:8 90:1

100:5 107:21 110:20

117:3 122:9 131:17

133:21,21 140:17 156:4

161:1,4 170:23 209:4

217:12 233:6 245:2,12

249:5 250:24 255:12,19

255:21 266:6 272:3

283:22 295:19 298:18

312:21 313:2,4 334:14

337:4

NFPA 347:5,17

NGO's 19:24

Nichols 352:9 357:10,11

362:3,6

Niebling 131:18 136:14

136:15

night 121:18

nineteen 167:20 300:23

ninety 59:13,16 65:13

150:16 206:22 252:19

313:1

ninety-eight 59:17

Ninety-five 225:6

Ninety-nine 101:23

ninety-percent 58:2,4,22

61:2 228:15,16

nine-and-a-half 332:19

nine-person 195:19

Nissan 285:13

nitrogen 32:7 74:7 76:24

87:8 150:9

nobody 202:1 338:2

non 29:2 31:6 261:14

nonbinding 175:23 181:5

noncombustible 225:3

noncompliant 94:1,9,11

263:12,21

none 21:20 134:16 168:1

195:14 303:9

nonfatal 26:14

nonintegral 359:13

nonpartisan 31:6

nonprofit 117:8 165:17

238:19

non-air 35:1

non-airtight 317:16

non-attainment 134:9,13

134:18,24 136:4 307:4

non-cancer 32:16

non-cat 64:16 94:14

144:23 145:7 146:3,21

158:17 225:22 227:2

229:7 288:17

non-catalyst 80:6

non-catalytic 21:1,11

29:13 80:3,10 223:23

224:5 260:8,9,13,22

261:5 262:7,13 274:20

277:22 278:12,20

279:16,19 280:1 289:2

289:9 308:24 309:4

324:3 329:8 331:18

335:24 357:3,7

non-cats 232:11

non-certified 83:5 85:21

201:6 265:2

non-emission 300:21

non-EPA 146:15

non-fatal 149:7

non-profit 31:7 67:19

234:13

non-profits 183:15

non-repeatable 177:18

non-smoking 77:3

normally 5:10 110:17

112:14 127:8

north 7:6,10,22 36:21

51:20 53:13 62:9

228:18 240:3 257:7,13

258:18 266:11,16 271:3

271:10,21,23 284:8
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Norway 267:13

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Norwegian 267:11

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Notary 1:24

note 13:21 103:20 132:4

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noted 8:22 246:8,15,23

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notes 85:19 206:7 277:9

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nothing 25:2 172:17,17

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notice 70:23 178:9,13,19

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noticeably 272:17

notices 178:20

November 169:6 278:7

nowadays 169:9

NSPS 14:21 15:13 17:7

26:16,18 27:3,24 29:12

37:11,20,21 38:5,23

40:1 44:18 46:12,23

47:19 51:15 54:9,18

55:8 60:7 62:11 70:19

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108:4 114:10,24 118:10

119:9 127:22 129:11

132:2,6 139:17 148:2

158:23 185:19 186:2,24

196:14 197:18 200:23

202:14 208:15 210:7

213:5 218:13 222:11

224:14 236:16 237:10

261:20 263:22 267:7,20

272:15 275:1 296:20

297:8 299:4 300:12

301:2,19,22 302:8,17

302:19 303:9,16 304:21

304:24 305:5,9 319:15

320:10 322:11,14

329:10,21 331:22

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nuisance 168:9

nullifies 287:2

number 13:12 20:3,9,20

21:17 23:2 45:6 50:15

62:9 79:8 84:20 94:14

123:9 124:1 130:16,18

130:21 138:10 153:7

164:8 174:12,18 175:19

176:19 177:10,19 178:8

186:13 189:21 198:8

199:22 201:17,18

214:10,14 215:19 217:6

227:22 228:16,18

229:21 231:9 238:5

240:23 246:23 264:13

265:15 270:22 271:18

289:6,8 291:13 297:16

303:22 325:10 329:19

331:2,6 334:3 348:11

351:14 353:16

numbers 19:14 20:13,16

62:18 109:24 111:13

113:24 119:22 126:17

178:1 214:12 230:24

267:1 278:10 285:1

288:14 313:3,12

numerous 21:21 34:4

161:19 188:19 189:4

215:21 258:24 321:10

358:8

NYSERDA 359:10

N-A-N-A-S-I 86:19

N-E-L-S-O-N 233:9

N-E-U-F-E-L-D 352:12

N-I-C-H-O-L-S 357:11

O

oak 58:13 154:2 342:4

object 358:20 360:8

objective 352:22

obligations 212:8 241:4

observe 330:15

observed 333:21

observers 20:2

obsession 318:8

obsolete 46:9

obstacle 325:20

Obstructive 73:6

obtain 333:3

obtaining 153:1 269:12

obvious 49:18 358:17

obviously 83:4 330:19

occasions 255:1

occur 74:10 153:24

occurring 45:2

occurs 148:23 204:13

odor 188:12

OECA 99:7

OEM 334:17,18

OEMs 334:5

off 2:7 22:17 23:18 24:20

40:24 59:8 100:18

106:7 117:23 143:21

144:13 198:20,23

205:13 216:2 229:4

343:16,17,17

offense 83:18

offer 28:6 80:10 137:22

297:9

offered 99:22 214:20

260:18 265:6 304:1

offering 116:6 341:24

offerings 114:16

offers 93:24

office 1:15,16 6:21 7:5,7

7:10,12,20 193:10

284:18 348:15

Officer 36:18

offices 183:16

official 10:21 290:15

291:19 348:5 350:4

offline 322:20 323:8,10

offset 92:24 128:3 263:9

offsets 128:3

often 64:4 67:4 120:20

144:12 145:3,6,13

146:22 153:19 188:13

237:5 247:8 281:24

295:8 345:20 360:3

Oh 290:24 292:20

oil 10:12 52:12 56:5 60:14

91:7 93:1,3,8 127:12

133:9 142:21 315:15

318:23

okay 7:17 11:9 14:9 25:2

36:13 48:8,10 55:21

67:6 86:15 100:4 122:8

131:16 181:1 183:1

192:17 193:2 209:3

217:8,17 257:2 273:9

274:8 293:1,10 298:18

310:20 318:11,18

322:13 323:19 338:3

348:18 349:1 362:4,11

362:20

old 6:3 17:10,20 19:11

29:5 38:7,10 59:24

62:17 66:16 81:12

82:22 88:24 91:14

96:10 121:18 160:13,22

188:14 199:3 200:12,14

200:23 201:6 207:4

216:1 223:12,12 249:21

250:10 258:18 263:8

272:10,18 289:10

299:18 324:8 325:17,22

326:7,12 327:9,10

328:9 329:17 346:19

older 17:17 18:14,18 24:6

43:9 77:8 81:18 82:2

83:2 86:3,8 96:17 114:1

144:5 145:18 146:14

190:23 191:4 264:22

304:5 324:18 331:12

333:12 350:8

older-models 335:1

oldest 80:15 82:6 100:14

109:11

old-generation 57:24

61:1

olive 310:6

OMB 103:20

omission 76:12

omni 333:14

omnipresent 92:2

once 22:5 46:7 53:19

57:22 58:1 65:7 76:14

102:24 114:2 155:24

163:20 178:23 199:17

199:24 212:15 284:16

287:13

one 4:3 5:14 16:23 19:19

19:21,24 20:22 21:6,24

22:8,11,20,21,23 23:24

26:21 27:2,3 34:16

40:22 52:14 55:20 61:2

65:9 66:13 69:19,24

70:16,20 71:18,19

75:11 84:16 85:18 88:9

88:10 98:5 105:15

106:3 108:4,14 109:10

111:14 114:22,22

115:12,22 118:13

120:16 122:5 126:11

127:6,10 128:11 144:4

147:20 148:21 156:22

157:13 160:19 163:12

163:13 164:6,6 167:22

170:21 171:24 172:2,4

174:18 176:12,21 177:7

177:9 179:19 180:13

181:19 182:2,8,10

191:22 194:9 195:11

199:6,10 201:7 204:6

209:8 213:21 214:21,21

216:19 218:22 222:5,6

228:10 232:15 233:4

235:16 241:4 244:2,5

248:18 251:24 252:14

253:1 257:21 262:20

264:14 265:11 271:22

273:11 275:23 278:1

280:11 281:13,13

285:12 286:5,11 288:10

288:12,12 291:23

292:11,20,21 295:18,23

299:18 312:14 313:12

313:24 317:1 321:15

326:18 332:20 333:7,24

335:4,6,11 336:17

339:4,7,9 342:9,9,18

343:13 344:5 345:2,7

350:6,21 351:2 352:22

355:5,20,24 356:7,9

357:24 358:5 361:15,24

onerous 332:3

ones 52:18 89:18 112:11

118:12 120:19 243:12

290:2

one's 199:4

one-and-a-half 45:9

one-third 27:18 34:15

one-year 99:5

ongoing 54:5 187:24

only 4:24 10:4,12 22:3

40:20 45:1 46:8 47:8

52:16 59:17,23 61:12

63:24 65:16 79:16

87:18 88:16 94:15 97:8

101:21 103:3,3 108:18

109:7,21 110:23 115:19

119:14 142:17 144:4

150:5 151:15,22 157:15

171:2 176:3 181:8,10

195:14 196:4,10,12

203:18 207:1 215:24

220:18 252:21 258:9

272:10 275:14 288:24

297:5 302:11 304:22

324:8 325:7 326:6

332:20 333:10 344:19

346:7 352:1,22 354:2

355:24 358:24 362:1,3

362:4

onset 169:3

onto 263:7

open 64:4,5 144:20,22

145:3 146:22,22 171:22

174:20 194:22 199:17

opening 7:2 140:24 141:5

199:15 253:8 291:24

openings 201:4

openly 358:5

operate 57:12 63:7 80:7

80:11 121:21 160:6

219:21 247:7 263:6

264:4,6 281:21 282:13

282:13,15 283:4 298:21

301:11 326:9 344:20

346:17 354:15

operated 33:3 64:5 66:2

170:23 185:10 186:11

188:14 345:21,24

349:12 354:11

operates 157:5

operating 157:20 169:5

185:22 188:8 231:17

278:19 300:10,24

operation 80:4,5,19

82:19 83:11 85:9 86:3

146:7 149:19 154:12

175:1 184:2 190:23

199:23 220:4 326:10

335:16

operational 70:3

operations 36:23 301:10

318:22

operator 80:22 119:13,16

121:24 286:7 291:21

342:23

operators 121:14

opinion 166:5 290:4,9

345:4

opinions 299:6

opportunities 83:1 113:4

opportunity 14:20 18:22

19:3 25:8 31:3 36:5

42:10 48:13 51:14

55:13 61:6 67:18 78:15

85:13 100:8 116:6,20

116:22 123:12 125:16

131:23 136:19 174:6

178:12 183:8 187:20

208:19 222:9 223:20

238:24 239:5 250:22

251:3 264:6 265:16

293:21 298:13 311:8

318:20 330:4 342:19

344:6 353:24 357:17

opposed 59:4 270:13

277:7 286:2

opposes 69:19

opposite 222:3 253:14

263:4 297:3

opposition 146:7

optimal 54:13 264:10

optimism 228:23 229:2

optimize 23:3

optimized 285:11

option 35:4,5,10 41:19

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Oregon 100:12 209:10

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other 6:7 8:6 9:1 10:6

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167:12 184:5 195:16

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218:15 220:23 229:15

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44:17 97:11 113:19

139:7 154:9 165:3

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298:1 334:13 337:21

other's 116:24

ourselves 94:20 204:18

243:16 250:14 272:11

347:18 360:6

out 5:4,12,24 12:13 15:9

16:24 18:12 28:20,23

29:10 38:2,7,10 59:22

59:23 60:9,18,21 66:3

83:3 85:24 86:2,3 88:6

90:18 94:1,3,6,9 96:10

97:23 101:11 107:11

109:8 115:23 121:13

126:2,6,22 131:3

134:21 144:11,14 147:5

157:6,10,24 158:15

159:9,15 160:13,13

164:16 173:20 175:3

201:10,19 207:5 217:18

222:1 226:23 231:17

232:13 234:20 236:4

247:15,16 249:3 250:13

251:8,20 252:1 255:6

256:11,15,22 259:1,22

260:3 264:19 265:8,18

276:22 283:7 288:5,13

288:16 295:4,8 301:4

304:1,6,9 305:11,12,16

308:17 309:6,12 312:18

315:15,17 321:11

325:18 337:12 338:5,20

340:13 341:5 344:14

346:22 349:4 354:24

356:17 357:12 360:7,21

outage 360:24

outcome 269:6 270:3,10

336:16

outcomes 149:4 189:20

232:21

outdated 43:4 47:14

68:12 149:12 152:3

312:18

outdoor 2:24 3:1 6:18 8:7

10:9 27:10 33:18 46:11

49:10 56:2 57:4,10,17

60:24 69:11 74:11

77:22 166:24 167:2,5,8

167:11,22 168:23 169:5

169:16 171:13 182:16

214:5 216:10,14,17

243:17 298:23 300:3,6

304:15 311:4 317:6

360:9 362:2

outdoors 56:15 152:16

outlawed 312:19

outlawing 252:7

outline 79:16

outlined 53:21 128:9

297:20

outlines 128:5

output 159:12 276:14

279:1 345:11

Outreach 7:4,19

outs 15:8,10,10 96:6

99:14,20 121:8,8,11

124:11,18 208:17 223:9

307:3 328:11 353:14

outside 12:24 13:19 33:5

50:19 87:23 113:5

194:16,17 195:2 211:14

257:16 280:13 285:6

341:23,24 351:22

outweigh 274:24

out-of-code 300:2

out-of-date 75:13

oven 295:9 339:10

ovens 5:9 10:10 339:18

over 2:23 5:23 6:5,5 7:13

7:14 9:7,22 11:6,18

13:22 20:9 21:3 22:2

27:21 31:9 35:6 36:22

38:18 40:4,16 41:2

44:24 45:8 46:1,24

50:14 52:5,14,22 56:18

56:21 57:8 63:22 88:24

90:3 92:17 96:10

100:21 105:2 109:6

110:15 112:13 117:2

126:24 129:9 132:17

133:6 134:20 135:18,18

143:8 153:4,16 157:7

161:1,15 182:14 200:4

210:2 212:3 215:9,14

218:3 221:15 226:11

230:2 243:3,6,10

255:11,12 257:16 258:4

260:20 262:20 265:8

266:21,23 268:23

271:11 278:11 282:23

287:14 295:7 296:11

297:22 299:13 322:5

326:16 328:15 332:24

338:7,9 340:24 343:1

351:4 353:7 355:15

overall 14:22 72:5 117:19

163:17 200:20 271:19

279:7 298:16

overburdening 54:23

overcome 227:4

overdue 42:14 68:12

73:13 149:11 202:15

244:23

overestimate 20:2

overheat 287:14

overreaching 37:12

oversee 164:14

overseeing 131:9 212:11

overseen 53:7 162:20

oversight 161:18 211:19

212:3,4 213:2 308:18

overstate 32:22 196:16

overview 7:15

overwhelmed 173:1

overwhelming 23:11

182:12 197:22

overwhelmingly 16:12

208:22

Owen 36:15 42:6

OWHH 57:18 359:3

own 33:5 56:7 90:6

113:24 151:3 167:19

176:2 214:23 244:1

249:22 263:10 268:19

283:7 290:8 298:21

299:1 304:1 309:14,16

309:19 311:15 312:7

owner 55:23 149:19

228:8 284:7 288:7

311:4 323:21 342:23

owners 63:14,15 94:19

132:23 185:21 195:11

207:4 213:22 218:4

240:16 281:21,24

282:23 283:3 288:8

319:13 357:5

ownership 27:8 257:6

281:14

owner's 83:12,16 310:5

315:22 316:9

owning 288:12

owns 342:18

Oxford 123:10 284:8

oxide 87:9

oxides 32:7 74:8 76:24

150:9

oxygen 300:8

oxygen-controlled

359:23

oxygen-rich 294:23

ozone 234:24 235:4

238:16

O-O-R-H-E-E-S 174:8

P

pace 34:10

pacific 44:2

package 96:23

packaging 61:22 161:21

163:8

page 65:13 337:13

pages 156:11 275:17

356:19,20,21

PAHs 203:17

paid 328:2

pairs 11:12

pallets 161:20

panel 7:1,3 24:14 36:13

66:12 78:5 100:4

107:21 122:8 140:14

165:12 192:15 195:6

209:3 228:21 239:15

362:14

panic 24:23,24

paper 333:7

paragraph 180:22

parallel 39:6 230:5

parameters 23:8

pardon 353:16

parent 267:11

parents 50:11

Park 7:22

Parks 268:1

part 10:21 24:1 30:18

103:13 104:22 106:6,21

107:7,10 120:12 123:1

162:9 175:1 211:15

230:18 236:7 240:6

257:5 263:22 298:22

319:3 322:22,22 330:23

334:3 335:18 342:14

343:13,14 347:5 349:8

participant 141:18

participants 63:17,22

participate 53:18 180:3

participated 179:17

participating 238:16

particle 4:7 70:10 203:13

235:6 307:16

particles 3:22 9:1 49:14

70:12 74:2,23 189:18

particular 19:21 20:22

204:3 234:4 235:5,18

236:17 241:7,15 277:7

292:15

particularly 15:7 69:1

124:4 189:21 190:13

204:13 242:8 243:17

262:23

particulate 15:3 17:7

18:12 26:1 31:24 34:17

37:7 39:2,20 40:19,22

41:6 43:1,3,22 44:1,22

68:15 74:7,13,16,18,19

75:1,10 81:14 87:8,12

135:4 140:2 148:22

150:5,8 151:4,16

153:12 158:16 187:22

189:5,11,18 190:10,17

234:23 235:4 242:10,16

246:20 275:15 276:10

333:11 346:18

particulates 37:9 43:6,11

43:19 44:5 144:23

173:15,17 203:22

234:19 284:24 347:3

parties 107:13 125:10

310:15

partly 56:22 242:17 343:7

partner 209:20 227:16,24

partnered 334:16

partners 111:1,4 196:12

201:15 236:3 346:15,20

346:21

partnership 70:22 125:5

339:7

parts 44:1,4 54:19 87:13

150:24 215:3 263:12,21

287:15 295:13 296:8

327:21 338:10

part-time 284:19

pass 57:11 64:6,23

201:19 219:22 249:10

passage 296:19

passed 102:18 126:15

170:3 202:2 215:23

259:20

passes 325:11

passing 23:17 103:15

271:16 290:4 311:19

passion 339:23

passively 146:4

past 40:14 41:2 56:21

57:5 73:17 88:5,9 169:1

169:2 171:7 216:19

235:8 245:23 255:11

258:5 284:20 294:8

295:12 309:15,18 314:2

patent 317:10

patented 56:2 105:12

patents 224:5

path 231:23 316:16

358:23 361:4

pathway 119:10 310:13

pathways 306:14

patience 13:10

Patio 14:14 19:6 95:21

248:10

Patricia 78:8,11

Patrick 93:22 245:7 248:2
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

Page 24

pattern 21:8,8 65:7

patterns 65:6 198:8

Paul 107:22 108:1 117:7

120:19

pay 5:24 17:16 168:11,14

170:16 250:7

payback 110:5 160:12

payout 17:12

payroll 56:17,22

peaked 143:17

peaks 136:3

pedal 137:4

Pediatrics 123:8

pejorative 280:1

pellet 8:9 9:19 14:17 28:4

30:2,4 33:21 46:16

51:18,23,24 52:6,9,22

53:13,14 54:1,8,17 55:2

68:18 97:10 99:19

100:20,24 101:15 102:9

103:23 104:15 115:9

118:20,20 119:1,3

136:16,20,22 137:10,16

137:19 138:6,9,19,24

139:1,13,15 152:5

154:16,17,18,22 159:1

162:2,5,13 163:15

164:17 165:11 178:7

184:3 205:2 216:14

217:24 218:11 221:1

233:22 309:15 327:19

357:15

pellets 29:16 30:14 51:24

52:15 53:10,15,23 54:3

54:6 85:1 118:6 138:4

154:20 155:6 161:22

162:1

pellet-burning 224:1,6

pellet-fired 324:1

penalized 115:7

penalizing 116:11

penalty 159:18

Pennsylvania 67:17,21

67:22 68:6 69:10 72:2

170:2

Pennsylvanians 68:5

people 4:2,4,13,19 5:10

5:15,24 6:2 9:3 12:10

13:11,12,13,15 18:20

26:10,13 36:22 38:1

43:8 50:17 56:17 76:4

77:9,23 78:18 86:2

90:12 92:18 101:6,8

103:3 104:1 106:22

108:5 117:4,10,11

121:15 122:12 125:11

131:4,4 135:9,15 149:1

149:6 158:5 160:13

165:21 167:14,17,20

168:19 169:8 172:18

173:6 182:15 188:8,12

191:8 193:22 194:16

195:7 197:2,13 199:6

200:11 201:11,17

204:16 212:10,10

216:23 230:6 232:19

242:21 248:23 249:19

250:9 252:19,24 254:11

256:4,5 257:17 263:7

263:13 264:21 282:20

284:19 290:1 311:7

319:21 331:9 333:16

338:11 343:6 344:3,7

344:12 350:6,8,9

353:18 361:3

peoples 3:24 10:4 168:2

242:20 344:1

per 19:20 26:21,24 27:1

27:20 29:12,13 34:17

37:22 40:18 58:10,12

59:5,15,19 62:1,1 69:20

70:4,10,12 130:2,20

151:4 164:6 186:14

189:12 190:4 198:6

199:19 200:15,16

214:10 215:6 217:5

218:23 220:9,22 226:8

241:19,22 243:4 246:7

249:8,12 258:12 259:12

262:22 263:17,24

265:10 271:17 278:18

289:6 304:17 313:13

320:9 322:10 324:12

325:1,23 326:14,15,16

332:18,20 353:10 355:6

355:7,11

perceive 191:9

perceived 229:1 325:19

percent 9:19,20 26:5

27:10,16,17 30:12

32:12,16 34:14 40:12

44:12 46:19 59:5,7,13

59:17,17 60:16 61:16

63:14,14,18,20 64:1,2,5

65:15,16 71:10,11,12

87:12 89:7 101:20,23

127:1,1,14,19 132:11

143:3,8,15 144:1,21

145:2 150:15,16,18,23

154:9 176:21,21 177:7

177:7,8,8,9 184:4

189:12,14 190:18,20,20

200:6,8 206:23 216:4,5

223:11 225:6 227:2

235:24 252:19 257:23

258:2 260:20 306:19

313:1 315:11,12 327:8

334:1 351:5,8

percentage 201:5 288:8

percentages 223:10

perception 211:17

212:24

perfect 215:19 246:18

329:3

perfectly 286:19

perform 64:10 139:5

179:21 209:16 210:6

212:7 216:11 273:21

287:8 356:7

performance 1:9 8:1

25:16 31:4 33:13 39:7

40:8 49:5 54:13 78:18

79:24 87:2 97:18 98:7

138:6,22 148:1 152:19

162:10 164:21 166:15

184:21 186:5 219:14,18

224:22 226:3 227:3

229:14,20 230:5 234:2

237:13,15,21 250:3

271:14 278:10 279:8

293:22 331:24 336:16

performed 214:3 215:15

performers 22:16 35:13

56:6

performing 269:4 344:10

performs 163:15 164:1

289:18

perhaps 82:2 99:4 106:1

171:6 269:22,22,23

307:23 328:13

period 117:2 122:1 136:3

153:20 155:18 248:3

294:18 300:20 301:7

302:13 328:16 336:1

357:23 361:15

periods 170:13 242:22

307:12 334:23 353:7

Perkins 67:10,11,11,14

permanent 276:1

permitted 336:18

person 102:23 125:20

144:10 168:12 172:4

291:14 327:20 357:18

personal 4:3 120:22

204:14 263:10 290:9

personally 51:7 125:18

125:20 126:7 127:3,3

162:6

personnel 210:23 213:7

persons 82:15 189:23

perspective 148:18

174:17 175:4 176:23

179:15

perspectives 20:20

pertains 210:10 267:19

perverse 17:9 24:5

185:20

pesticide 49:1

Peter 217:12,14,20

337:10

PFI 51:19,20 53:3 54:16

139:1 155:5 162:6,7,11

162:16,22 163:1,11,19

164:4,14,20 165:4,8

PFI's 53:15 139:8

phase 34:16 40:17 58:8

61:2 70:21 71:3,14

167:22,22 211:18,22

251:24 276:24 277:20

300:23 301:8,17,23

302:6,11,14 303:6,10

304:12,19 311:11,15

313:10 320:2 336:11

phased 149:24 244:17

phases 9:7

phase-in 75:20

phase-one 28:16,21

phase-two 40:9 41:11

59:4 129:21 151:8

205:1 259:17 305:3

Phd 195:21

phenomenon 338:12

Philadelphia 67:21

philosophy 360:5

phone 50:10,16,23 157:5

182:14 198:23 321:10

phonetic 105:22 112:7

Phys 123:23

physical 82:16 229:11

physically 18:9 167:21

344:19

physicians 123:14

165:17

picking 157:21

pickup 285:12

picture 133:14 337:14

pictures 94:3 171:5

piece 186:8 281:5

pieces 132:15 197:9

226:6 327:2

pinched 57:14

pine 342:3

Pioneer 123:24

pioneered 96:7

pipe 292:6 327:2 345:1

Pipeline 93:22

Piroli 183:4

Pirolli 187:11,11,13

pits 5:8 51:1 182:19

Pittsburg 100:11

pizza 10:10

place 16:1 25:21 41:9

69:15 156:1 161:7

172:3 205:19 206:13

210:24 216:16 226:14

251:11 326:7 336:2

346:10 356:23

placed 27:13 150:8

206:19

places 6:7 150:17 358:3,9

plain 254:2

Plainfield 294:1

plan 98:2 102:6 103:21

103:24 240:7 321:7

356:2,15

planet 93:19

planned 13:16

planning 7:6,21 187:14

202:12 290:14

plans 256:9 298:2 351:20

plant 335:5

plants 16:20 94:5 136:22

136:24 137:4 218:5

272:8,10

Plastic 298:21

plate 117:6

platform 332:9

plausible 289:8

play 87:23 118:17 149:1

280:21

playing 210:13 277:5

333:4

plays 108:22

please 11:14 12:23

103:20 104:5 180:17,24

pleased 32:18 55:7 73:22

188:2 206:16 207:24

275:2 297:7

pleasure 2:12 236:5

pledge 52:19

plentiful 87:5

plugged 317:21

plus 21:6 115:10 170:12

176:21 177:6,9 307:14

321:21

PM 26:1,6,11,20,22 29:12

29:13 32:4,5 44:4 45:10

69:20 71:11 74:18 75:1

133:4 134:4,9,14 135:7

135:16,22 167:4,10

190:3,12,18 234:19

236:1 238:16 241:19

PM2.5 203:15

pneumonia 169:1

podium 90:21

Podrecca 337:5 342:21

342:22 348:7,13,17,19

348:22 349:1,5,9,15,21

350:1,5,23 351:7,13,16

point 5:2,5 58:9 66:7,19

95:6 102:5 103:2

106:24 111:23 118:13

126:4 128:18 129:15

130:24 147:22 177:10

180:17 205:15 212:9

243:18 267:8 270:12

276:23 279:13 321:15

324:5 332:23 333:24

339:4 356:17 362:14

pointing 206:5

points 174:13 219:11

331:7

poised 29:20

poisoning 56:14

poles 161:22

policies 319:11 323:2

policy 25:5 118:2 122:17

147:13

political 280:23

pollutant 30:8

pollutants 3:23 9:2 32:8

42:17 44:7,9,15 72:9

74:9,13 75:11 76:16

87:9 150:4 189:1

220:24

pollute 232:23

polluted 73:4

polluting 8:20 17:10,21

144:5 207:5 330:1

pollution 3:19,20 4:7

6:19 15:11 26:8,11 31:7

31:18 37:3 39:2 41:12

41:17 42:12 43:2,4,22

44:1,4,22 48:18 49:1

50:9,13 75:17 76:6 77:4

77:6,24 81:12,14 82:1

87:13 89:3,6,8 92:13

148:22,23 190:24

203:14 204:18 208:11

208:18 227:23 233:11

234:23 235:4,6,10

236:2 241:5,11 242:10

242:24 307:17 308:4

345:10 346:24

pollutive 267:9
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

Page 25

polycyclic 32:8,9,13

44:13 71:13 189:13

203:16

polycyclical 189:7

pond 206:6

poor 49:19 107:13 109:17

201:8

poorest 106:20

poorly 185:10

poorly-designed 336:14

pop 112:18

pops 112:11

Popular 60:11

populated 16:12

population 82:5 103:17

188:24 189:22 247:9

307:15

populations 4:2 247:23

308:8

portable 296:5

portfolio 28:11

portion 23:14 103:18

174:21 175:17 297:13

portions 143:13

Portland 141:22 257:16

pose 9:2 126:21 141:11

posed 68:10

poses 126:12

posing 72:2

position 16:17 31:17

147:19

positions 360:15

positive 35:15 153:8

186:24 228:2

possibilities 277:14

possible 13:6 18:9 35:19

133:14 153:1 154:15

173:1 179:23 222:7

247:3 307:20 308:2

possibly 115:20 260:2

Post 1:16 323:22

posted 332:16

postpone 206:14

potential 17:21 20:4,11

145:22 154:20 155:8

177:17 186:23 188:23

272:24 277:13 324:21

326:11

potentially 153:10 155:3

326:1 360:6

Poulin 298:19,20,20

pounds 41:12 58:10,12

59:5 61:24 69:20 130:2

130:20 151:3 177:6

186:14 214:10 215:6

217:5 226:7,8

power 156:24 157:21

160:15 173:11 272:8,10

powerful 61:23

Powerpoint 140:23

practical 175:7 300:16

306:8

practice 360:5

practices 30:10,15 53:4

pragmatism 85:5

prayers 342:1

prays 108:22

pre 223:13

preamble 174:18 296:20

precariously 32:3

precise 219:13

precisely 17:24

predate 330:14

predict 255:20

predictable 84:9 352:18

predicting 260:1

predictor 224:21

predominantly 79:12

preempt 208:1

preemptively 358:18

preface 201:16

preferred 35:3,5,9 184:8

premature 26:13 43:7

75:2 149:6 203:23

249:3

premise 174:20

prepare 10:19 11:18

358:13

prepared 164:22

preparing 28:10 92:14

261:16

preponderance 92:23

prescription 170:16

presence 71:16 72:2

343:6

present 148:20 208:20

273:7 330:4 352:24

presentation 13:1 140:21

140:23 141:9 161:4

presentations 55:21

presented 281:6 282:3

317:20

presenting 157:3 284:21

presents 148:19 183:17

241:6

preserving 142:14

president 14:13 36:17

55:23 61:7 90:20

112:22 113:13 122:16

165:16 209:7 213:21

217:21 248:6,8 257:6

278:7 294:8 323:21

337:9 343:3 352:13

Press 338:14

pressure 147:8 285:14

307:17

pressures 62:12 66:6

Preston 323:22,22

presumed 328:6

pretty 122:11 156:17

265:14 321:8 337:22

prevalence 69:9 88:11

prevalent 29:17

prevent 45:17 48:18 50:9

88:13 172:4

preventing 42:18 73:3

previous 23:10 127:21

previously 8:10 127:21

136:9 234:5 236:19

previously-unaffected

128:17

pre-EPA 199:18 324:18

325:21 327:23 329:17

pre-NSPS 223:13

pre-1988 221:17

pre-1998 219:9

price 17:11 52:10 56:5

60:18 63:19 91:16

102:21 110:2,14 114:4

126:24 133:9 142:20

143:1 145:21 170:8,11

197:21 200:9 219:2,6

221:7 249:22 264:20

326:5 327:8 328:8,12

priced 273:2

prices 17:1 23:23,23

56:11 93:2 111:11

191:6 220:16 221:24

252:23 324:16

pricing 126:22

pride 78:19 109:10

344:17

priest 341:23

primarily 69:12 142:9

143:9 189:17 312:1

primary 36:21 51:9 74:13

133:7 141:6 197:15

199:6 225:12,16 267:20

288:21 316:16

primitive 49:11

principal 294:22

prints 215:2

prior 37:20 99:2 176:2

237:23 239:13 354:4

360:18

priority 63:19 234:16

326:1

private 33:3 41:1

privilege 156:13

prize 329:16

pro 90:24

proactive 6:9

proactively 54:18

proactivity 238:21

prob 134:8

probability 200:18

probably 22:19 134:7

158:3,21 245:11 276:8

288:14 317:7 326:19

347:16

problem 43:2 77:22 98:3

119:12 121:14,18,19

124:4,14 134:17 144:7

166:6 178:4 182:21

187:21 191:23 197:20

198:5 199:10,13,20

216:2,15 324:13 346:8

358:17

problematic 189:21

246:13

problems 4:9 9:3 43:16

153:6 160:4 169:8

208:7 212:23 234:24

236:21 241:15 246:16

260:4 286:20 358:6

procedure 2:3 54:4 58:17

120:16 153:15,22

219:12

procedures 7:13 11:7

30:1 59:2 193:11

207:13 218:23 247:20

proceed 194:23

process 15:14 53:4,7,18

54:5 57:21 60:5,8,10

97:24 102:14 119:17

130:22 211:15,18,21,22

212:6,22,23 213:1

218:16 238:7 263:22

274:17 304:8 312:4

356:6

processes 53:20

processing 61:21 308:15

330:13

produce 27:22 75:16

89:2 107:6 109:10,22

110:11 130:4,17 137:1

137:12 142:12 146:23

147:2 151:9 175:13

187:4 207:19 236:24

produced 37:20 46:24

53:23 127:15 148:10

164:7 278:10 281:11

295:19 329:6,20 345:15

producers 165:2 183:13

produces 74:3,19 128:15

144:22 174:21 176:7

181:14

producing 41:5 146:15

213:24 230:1

product 14:24 22:23

54:15 56:4,20 60:23

64:11,22 65:4 102:19

102:21,21 108:8 111:19

114:19 115:5 116:2

126:8 130:13 155:10

163:17 164:7 165:10

174:10,24 179:10 214:2

214:16 215:24 216:8

221:11,22 223:11 224:4

224:15 229:18 258:13

268:9 271:20 276:7

313:15 314:16 317:23

325:3,10 327:22 334:2

360:24 361:2

production 30:14 53:20

60:17 62:18 84:3 98:16

114:8 163:16,22 164:3

220:15 330:17

products 24:6 36:19

37:24 42:1 52:2 55:4

62:24 63:5 65:5,9 66:9

79:9 84:23 89:13

104:16 108:23 109:22

111:1,4,22 113:10

114:5,7,15 115:21

116:4,9 126:10 128:19

132:18 149:16 154:24

161:12,19 162:4 163:14

163:21 164:1 196:2

201:24 218:8,12 221:8

222:15 225:1 228:5

229:14 230:3,13 257:19

262:21 267:9 268:14

270:9 273:2 297:1,9

313:17 319:22 321:6

323:23 325:21 330:1

336:5,20 353:12 357:3

359:2,4,19 361:7

product's 126:24

professional 195:20

349:19

professionals 31:11

165:18 339:11 342:24

professor 253:17

proficiency 179:13,19,20

180:1,4

proficiency-testing

179:18

profile 186:8

profit 312:20

profits 111:16

profound 45:14

program 28:24 29:4,11

40:6 53:1,2,3,6,8,12,15

53:19,22 54:19 57:20

70:23 85:24 86:4 88:3

93:23 98:15 111:20

129:8,10 137:20 139:8

139:12 162:1,3,11,16

162:22 163:1,12,19

164:9,11,14,16,17,22

165:3,5,9 212:3,11

213:2 265:8 304:2,9

311:12 322:8 348:15

355:17

programming 302:16

programs 28:2,20 59:23

83:3 86:2,5 147:6 163:6

179:18 212:20 238:17

262:12 265:1 303:1,23

325:19 346:22 349:4

353:14

program's 54:22 180:2

progress 15:3 17:19

125:4,9 219:8 221:15

progresses 361:10

prohibiting 269:19

319:16

prohibition 30:13 265:1

prohibitively 85:11

project 5:22 7:8 215:9

359:9,11

projected 65:14 200:1

255:11 324:22

projecting 248:24

projections 196:18

197:18

projects 6:6 234:15

238:22

proliferation 183:24

promote 108:6 115:18

118:9 184:11 205:10

343:21

promotes 129:1 240:13

354:19,21

promoting 108:7 123:12

155:23 208:16 269:18

promptly 48:2 179:9

promulgate 72:7

promulgated 16:22 23:15

148:3

promulgating 208:21

promulgation 99:1,4

110:23 111:3 115:11

118:23 129:14,18 132:5
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HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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proof 255:18 354:17

propane 52:13 56:6

60:14 127:12 221:3

252:23

proper 41:22 94:21,23

149:19 335:16

properly 121:22 231:18

287:4 345:24 346:16

properties 203:20

property 342:3

proportionally 325:15

proposal 7:15,24 9:6

10:1 14:22 15:1 16:18

17:8 18:22 19:15 20:5

21:22 24:1 31:19 32:19

33:9,17,24 34:13 36:1

42:14 44:18 45:14 48:1

65:23 68:15 79:20 81:8

82:14 83:10,23 84:2,10

97:14 98:23,24 107:18

109:20 110:10,13

111:20 112:10 113:14

115:2,6,8 116:13

120:12 125:17 126:4,12

127:7 128:5,11,24

129:23 132:4 139:15

152:2 155:22 176:19

177:5,19 191:22 192:6

192:10 202:24 210:15

218:21 220:8 230:16

232:8 238:9 257:10,12

258:18,22 259:3,9,18

260:1,22 262:16 263:2

264:11 266:12,15

270:17 272:4,22 291:24

299:4 300:12 301:22

302:17 304:21 306:16

321:23,24 322:6 335:23

343:15 353:4 354:2,6

355:17 356:7,18 358:3

358:9 359:14

proposals 99:18 301:2

propose 3:8 120:8 155:7

305:1 313:9,22,22

320:9

proposed 1:9 2:18 7:9

8:2,22 9:11 10:14 11:2

12:18 14:19,21 16:11

16:22 19:8 20:8 22:10

22:20 23:14 25:19

26:16,18 27:3 28:14

29:12,23 30:17 31:4

34:5,8,16,18 35:3,10

37:5,11,21 38:5 42:11

44:21 45:17 46:1,18,23

47:23 49:5 51:15 54:9

60:4,6 65:13 68:21 69:8

69:12,19,23 70:20,23

71:23 73:9,23 76:9

78:16 79:7,15 80:1

84:18 89:5,14 91:1

93:17 95:2 96:23 97:4

97:15 98:4 100:2 118:4

123:4 128:13 129:11

138:19 139:17 141:11

146:8,14,18 147:23,24

149:21 151:8 152:17

153:7 154:22 167:10

174:13,19 183:9,17

186:24 188:2 191:18

196:14 197:18 202:14

205:3 206:12,17 210:11

210:24 211:4,22,23

212:2 213:1 218:20,22

219:15,19 220:17

224:18 234:1 237:21

238:8 248:23 249:13

251:22 259:15,17

267:20 268:15 269:13

273:24 275:6,13,13

276:24 277:20 284:23

293:21 296:19 298:4

301:19 303:9,15 313:4

319:19 324:7,11 343:18

354:6 355:12 358:14,19

363:13

proposes 177:5

proposing 166:14 175:19

175:21 181:1,3 222:10

269:5

proprietary 277:16

prospect 22:22

protect 48:22 51:5 68:2

70:6 78:1,23 173:6

233:12 241:5

protected 69:6 173:5

protecting 49:9 86:23

165:18 235:11

protection 25:7,22 30:24

78:14 166:6 187:17

202:13 240:22 268:3

347:6

protective 46:14 75:24

149:10

protocol 57:17,22 58:11

179:24

protocols 247:14,21

prototype 314:14,15

proud 6:12 93:10 137:16

218:10

proudly 113:11

prove 22:17 253:9,13,14

255:5 309:18 325:14

332:5 333:1

proved 96:12

proven 15:11 42:22

214:16 250:6 254:24

340:22

provide 14:22 16:9 25:13

26:22 27:3 29:17 36:2

48:13 52:1 56:16 72:21

77:14 78:16 83:1 84:9

84:24 86:1,6 113:6

131:1 132:11 141:10

147:18 152:19 161:17

183:9 186:16 205:10,11

207:4 213:15 233:23

237:22 239:12 267:15

267:18,21 272:3 276:20

294:6 299:23 301:6

302:15 333:17 334:13

349:3 351:21 362:9

provided 15:16 96:6

132:16 136:8 178:3

268:15 332:14 358:21

359:8

provides 39:9 52:6 185:1

261:8 271:7 310:14

334:1

providing 28:24 29:6

55:5 72:12 79:17 80:12

85:15 196:23 273:22

357:17

provision 208:2 261:13

provisions 34:6,11

257:12 266:14

proximity 208:5 242:19

242:20

pro-consumer 39:13

pro-employment 39:14

pro-environment 39:13

343:20

pro-EPA 93:12

prudent 336:8

public 1:8,24 3:14 9:14

25:18,22 36:10 42:20

43:2 47:15 48:15,22

49:9,19 63:12 69:5

75:23 78:2 94:21 95:21

102:17 103:6 117:19

122:17 124:2,21,22

133:5 134:10 138:14

140:3 141:13 143:20

147:1 148:16,18 153:10

165:17 166:3,5,10

186:18 188:1 241:5

243:13 252:16 294:8

346:16,22 361:7 363:12

publication 274:19

276:19 360:17 361:9

publicity 169:7

public's 26:8 148:23

165:19

publish 276:9

published 96:8 333:7

338:8 358:16 360:23

361:13,16

publishing 360:18

puff 288:5

puffing 287:21

Puget 305:23

pull 62:20 286:21

pulled 286:10

pulmonary 73:6 189:19

punished 290:3

purchase 33:4,6 76:5

81:20 139:4 151:13

184:22 186:1 304:2

purchased 197:9 214:17

221:23 288:11 316:2

purchasing 145:19

pure 259:5

purely 270:18

Purinton 266:6,8,9

273:15 274:6

Purple 105:24

purpose 141:9 162:17

359:10

purposely 21:23

purposes 151:6 261:6,11

Pursuant 261:13

pursue 330:2

pursuit 81:5

purview 208:14

push 59:8 175:6 217:1

360:5

pushed 328:23

pushing 286:3

put 5:21,22 59:8 63:21

94:6 109:8 113:9

120:13 143:18 152:16

158:13 171:19 172:3

196:13 201:23 229:10

251:20 253:16 256:9,11

256:14 258:23 260:2

269:14 275:23 276:4,21

287:23 293:6 295:15

303:19 308:24 336:14

puts 360:15

putting 38:2 104:3 147:8

211:9 251:10 254:7

307:17

pyramid 102:20

P-E-R-K-I-N-S 67:12

P-I-R-O-L-L-I 187:12

P-O-D-R-E-C-C-A 342:22

P-O-U-L-I-N 298:20

P-U-R-I-N-T-O-N 266:9

p.m 12:19 135:9,14 193:3

363:10,16

P28-17 298:5

Q

QuadraFire 223:22

qualification 53:18 54:4

163:23,24 314:2

qualified 40:16 71:2

98:16,22 165:2 268:20

299:12 300:22 301:8,17

301:23 302:6,11,14

303:7,10,21 304:12,19

304:22 305:3 311:15

320:3 323:5

qualify 322:4

qualifying 70:21 268:14

313:15

quality 3:13 6:11 7:5,21

15:12 18:2 28:13 29:18

30:12 31:10,13 35:1

36:10 37:4,8,13,18 38:9

49:19 52:19 53:20,24

55:4 64:15 67:24 76:19

76:22 78:20 80:23

96:14 123:4 137:20

148:16 151:10 153:2

154:23 162:14 163:7,17

163:17,23 164:17

165:10 184:16,17 190:3

206:11 214:2 218:18

222:17 235:2,7,8

238:18 240:22 241:1

245:21 246:16,19 247:3

249:14 259:8 262:17

263:3 264:23 271:1

298:16 324:15 329:16

339:23 346:12

quantities 237:1

quarter 32:14 44:14 46:2

Quebec 281:16

question 35:8 66:13

85:19 95:12 130:14

180:11,13 182:2,16

192:21 201:16 222:19

230:19 252:17 273:10

273:11,11 274:2 312:23

320:22 322:1 361:24

questions 13:17 18:23

24:12,14 36:12 48:5

55:16 66:11 78:4 85:14

89:22 100:4 107:20

122:8 131:16 140:13

156:3 159:3 165:13

192:14 194:15 209:2

217:9,10 228:20 239:16

244:21 250:23 290:11

292:12 293:18 310:20

319:21 320:6 321:13

335:15 337:2 358:24

quick 13:20 85:18 180:10

222:19 273:10 302:19

321:15 350:22

quickly 58:3 168:10

222:7 230:19 247:3

287:6 307:20

quit 256:1

quite 66:20 67:4 115:20

194:21 242:17 267:13

297:3 315:19 317:13

331:1

quote 34:20 129:24

186:14 295:12,16,17

296:21,22 333:10

R

R 130:4 176:2,23 177:16

181:9 248:23

racing 172:1

radio 280:23

raise 19:18 23:23 192:3

raised 252:20 309:9

ramp 229:4

ran 273:16 315:15

random-compliance

62:21

Randy 13:2 55:20

range 8:19 9:18 33:15

51:22 79:10 175:23

181:5 198:7 210:6,21

216:24 225:6

ranging 150:23

Rapids 106:14,16

ratchet 121:17

rate 8:12 33:19 34:1 38:6

68:20 91:4 101:19

105:4,9 106:18 115:10

152:24 164:6 168:12

186:13 226:16 227:1,7

232:2,3,6 264:7 276:10

287:23 315:14 316:5

317:18

rated 214:21

rates 46:22 204:5 207:11

207:13,18 275:4 276:16

325:23 354:16

rather 86:3 89:15 174:16
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Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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ratio 27:2 226:21 227:10

ratios 225:13

Ray 195:5,11

reach 3:23 18:16 38:2

125:8 230:21 285:1

reached 66:7 333:23

362:7

reaches 84:19

react 360:22

read 86:16 109:2 112:22

123:6 180:22 343:15

readily 40:2

reading 130:2 238:9

337:10

ready 14:6 115:9 178:22

195:8 270:8 313:5,17

real 17:21 24:2 30:2

35:17 63:3 64:8,15,24

94:18 98:2 145:10

148:19 154:12 168:2

176:11,15 181:18,22

199:24 207:9,15 214:24

219:4,14 220:3 224:21

225:19 227:3,18 229:12

229:13,19 230:4,4,23

232:22 253:15 258:17

264:12 265:17 269:2

270:14 289:14 308:5,5

308:6,7,14 328:20

336:15 353:24 355:1

361:3

realistic 289:6

realistically 94:15

realities 186:20

reality 78:1 152:18

201:11 272:4

realize 17:13 28:7 60:19

297:21 328:24

realized 56:12 85:12

269:3

really 4:12 20:17 94:12

116:14 117:9 119:15

126:7 143:17 146:11

156:11 158:6 159:20,23

161:4 175:5 212:12

224:15 229:23 231:18

239:24 242:14 256:22

302:8 331:8 343:12

346:7 350:16 357:19

362:20,20,23

reap 184:1

reason 23:20 87:24 115:1

196:20 248:12 302:3

331:21

reasonable 15:21 18:3

95:9 131:11 147:6

175:22 176:13 181:4,21

185:3,16,19 301:13

reasonableness 85:5

reasonably 18:15

reasons 15:22 69:21

139:24 199:6 203:3

329:8

rebate 86:4,5 265:1

rebutting 282:6

receive 132:23 153:3

received 19:23 168:1

188:10 209:23 252:8

receives 237:3

recent 49:24 52:12 90:18

188:6,11 221:3 233:18

257:24 314:1 315:14

331:4

recently 171:19 246:2

255:4 261:17,19 272:5

327:23

recertifications 269:18

recertified 62:15 64:21

355:22

Recess 193:5 318:16

363:7

recession 16:17

recognition 120:15

recognize 38:12 98:20

118:5 119:9 132:1

137:9 206:8 329:12

336:13

recognized 74:4,15 75:4

98:13 262:9 296:20

recognizes 103:20

152:18 238:23 297:18

358:5

recognizing 119:18

352:16

recommend 154:10

289:1

recommendation 186:16

recommendations 141:8

356:24

recommending 292:14

recommends 35:19

reconsider 83:23 254:10

256:9,13

reconvene 12:21 193:2

318:14

record 10:22 63:12 79:18

85:16 267:2 284:2

309:13 336:3

recover 312:9,17

recovered 168:24

recovering 215:11

Recreation 123:23

recreational 240:21

rectangular 335:8

Rector 140:18 147:10,11

147:12 192:20

recycle 265:7

recycling 94:5

red 12:3 143:18 194:1,10

198:10 265:5 289:12

291:2 338:21

redesign 271:11

redesigned 19:17 325:1

reduce 15:11 17:7 18:14

24:7 26:16 37:3 39:20

42:11 44:21 49:1 75:20

79:5 88:16 93:8 99:20

113:21 119:16 121:23

134:22 170:8 183:22

187:6 224:13 227:12

234:16 238:14,22

313:11 317:15 319:6

reduced 26:22 27:8 30:3

45:10 81:5 143:2 184:2

184:18 239:8 334:21

reduces 66:3 226:9

reducing 4:14 8:17,24

15:3 27:17 37:9 41:16

47:8 68:22 71:23

176:19 187:9 234:22

238:24 297:12

reduction 34:24 35:12

40:7 70:18 77:19 95:9

130:19 158:16 159:10

179:7 200:17,19 220:19

224:24 227:18 234:15

238:14 303:23 333:21

reductions 18:2 28:8

29:19 34:20 36:8 45:1,8

45:15 125:3 151:9

196:17 302:24 304:20

reevaluated 332:3

refer 153:19

reference 54:17 229:13

referenced 162:11

281:10 331:16

referred 162:6 163:2

226:17 280:12

referring 280:9

refills 216:12

refine 85:4 336:20

refiners 183:14

reflect 70:17 72:10

154:12 202:18 207:8

219:14 242:1 247:5

308:14 309:24 355:1

reflected 118:10

reflects 147:19 207:14

238:2 239:9 354:10

refractive 316:15

refractory 296:7

refueled 154:1

regard 34:8 349:19 350:3

regarding 20:11 105:7

161:24 180:17 213:7

238:7 259:7 267:18

271:3 319:21 361:12

regardless 21:10 207:6

320:12 321:22 322:15

322:17 329:5

regards 98:24 262:15

Regencies 90:10

region 2:23 3:15 5:17

68:1 124:5,19 147:18

153:6

regional 1:15 2:8 8:21

193:9

registered 12:23 195:1

registration 11:5 12:14

12:16 13:19 194:14

regrettable 279:18

regs 58:6 92:15 95:2,5,6

regular 278:11

regulate 33:1 57:19 166:7

182:19 267:8 288:21

320:7

regulated 45:3 60:21

125:7 153:4 166:1,2

regulates 279:18

regulating 152:15 297:6

regulation 6:8,11 37:17

41:16 60:21 65:22

79:15 81:15 84:18 85:4

139:23 165:1 176:17

181:24 227:17 228:1

237:21 243:19 252:1

256:10 260:16 274:23

284:23 290:5 297:18

315:1 345:14 349:18

regulations 8:13 16:10

16:22 18:4,4 41:23

50:12 60:4 68:17 79:1

81:2 84:10 91:1 95:24

100:17 101:17 102:2,10

103:8,15 104:6,12

117:24 118:4 120:3

122:22 123:4 124:11

128:13,16 141:11 146:8

146:14,18 147:5 148:12

150:5,11 183:10 191:2

191:19 213:8 224:12,18

234:12 237:8 251:9,20

253:22 254:7,10,17

266:21 274:16 301:1

303:2,11

regulator 179:6

regulators 208:14 213:6

351:1

regulatory 47:5 60:1 84:7

84:8 121:12 212:8

213:10,14 270:11 275:6

275:7 321:4

reigns 343:2

reinstated 269:23

reintroduce 195:7

reinvest 314:5

reinvesting 312:20

reiterate 18:1 222:12

reject 220:17

rejects 97:6

related 79:9,11 81:1

189:16,17 237:6 276:15

relates 257:10 266:12

relating 82:5,10

relations 294:8

relative 328:1

relatively 16:18 327:13

relaxed 283:19

relay 95:11

release 226:12,16 227:7

released 62:3 188:13

295:6

relegated 172:8

relevant 270:15

reliable 55:5 191:11

255:14

reliably-clean 139:19

reliance 93:8 187:7 203:2

reliant 93:5

relied 268:18 299:15

relies 211:24 251:13

280:9,17

relines 289:19

relining 327:6 328:22

reluctant 81:18

rely 25:11 130:24 220:24

237:10 240:4 270:8

299:20 361:4

remain 156:1

remained 54:22

remaining 351:18

remains 201:7 358:21

remark 205:13

remarks 2:3,6,10 137:24

253:8 255:5 362:22

remember 86:13 91:19

97:19 111:22 113:24

116:8 117:21 160:19

250:8 295:22 331:19

remind 333:6

reminiscent 205:16

remodeled 76:14

remodelling 16:15

Remole 251:1,2,4 265:23

265:23,24 266:1,4

remorse 90:22

remove 86:2,8 107:9

174:19 175:1,3 192:6

204:17 289:10

removed 212:5

removes 300:6

removing 175:10,16

200:10 296:16

rendering 39:11

renewable 28:3 55:6

61:20 92:1 93:9 117:22

118:3,6,8 127:5 132:10

132:14 138:1 140:5

184:7,24 203:6 221:11

240:8 297:11 298:14

304:16 313:21

renewables 118:9

renovate 67:3

renovated 38:22 39:11

reopen 60:8

repairing 59:24 300:1

repeat 5:2 135:20 143:4

180:16

repeatedly 200:2

repetition 107:1

replace 6:3 29:4 81:18

82:3,23 127:24 144:19

243:11 329:24

replaced 29:7 64:22

81:21,24 200:15 222:6

303:8

replacement 17:9,17

18:18 81:9 219:8 222:1

223:12 292:13 324:18

325:17 326:6 328:9

329:17 333:18 334:4,19

334:21,22 355:16 356:3

356:5,11,14

replacements 200:7

223:9 333:22

replacing 17:20 127:17

326:14 327:9

replied 106:1

report 143:7 212:17

237:5

reported 21:2
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HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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reporting 151:14 206:18

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reports 212:10

represent 31:16 34:19

38:18 61:15 117:8

132:12 143:13 248:13

274:11 294:11 330:8

357:12

representative 71:5

178:17 245:6 250:24

251:5

Representatives 113:18

251:6

representative's 265:22

represented 21:12

339:24

representing 125:14

183:12 305:23 343:5

347:13

represents 14:16 35:16

51:22 147:1 192:11

reproducibility 275:5

reproducible 278:5

reps 334:6

request 54:19 83:22

151:18 179:1 320:7

requested 39:16 57:18

178:20 179:4 303:1

344:10

requesting 39:5

require 16:19 58:11,13

61:21 71:21 176:12

178:5 181:19 229:5

235:11 259:18 286:6

287:12 288:20 289:22

315:11 335:24 347:7

350:11

required 8:24 21:18

34:10 57:7 70:18 88:7

130:21 151:23 152:12

179:3,17,20 180:3

191:1 192:1 202:19

228:4,18 237:18 256:8

276:4 292:19 303:16

318:3 325:8 356:4

requirement 83:23

138:24 178:9 179:6

226:2 314:17 335:22

requirements 8:4 16:6

30:1,5 35:3 57:11 73:10

75:21 82:9 134:16

138:18 139:2 151:15

152:8 165:5 177:13

188:2 192:8 208:1

210:18 211:14 213:11

215:4 218:17,20 219:22

222:14 225:15 237:22

239:12 252:4 293:4

300:17 301:3 308:23

312:14 314:1,6 336:9

requires 46:5 65:5 80:7

84:2 99:3 106:10

206:17 225:12,16 286:1

296:4 333:17

requiring 219:20 264:24

276:7

resale 83:5 85:21 86:12

86:14

research 7:21 15:17

16:19 17:4 102:15

126:8 187:8 204:9

224:3 266:10 340:22

reseller 325:9

reservations 349:17

residence 265:3

resident 33:8 86:20 202:6

257:4

residential 1:10 7:11 8:1

8:6,23 25:23 26:4 31:5

31:22 32:5,17,21,24

33:12,16 36:9 42:13

43:12,17,20,23 44:5,11

46:3,9 49:6,7 50:16

51:15 68:3,10,24 71:24

73:10 76:10 77:18

78:17 79:11 83:11

133:19 137:8 148:1,19

148:20 150:21 151:21

151:22 152:9,12 154:19

162:10 166:15 183:10

183:23 184:7 188:3

189:9 202:14 203:2

204:12 211:2 233:9

234:3,7,17 235:14,22

236:12,17 237:9 239:2

251:11,23 320:8,23

321:3,18,19,21 322:16

323:6 335:21 359:23

363:13

residents 29:1 50:8 69:18

resides 93:16

residue 225:4

resolution 47:18 177:11

resolved 269:21

resource 61:20 78:24

127:5 132:9,10 184:24

191:9 240:8 247:22

297:11 298:15 353:2

Resourceful 91:17

resources 30:6 87:15

93:9 95:9 110:19 113:2

115:15 123:21 131:21

131:23 165:7 196:1

237:18 294:18 302:23

308:11

respect 34:12 200:3

208:2

respected 268:8

respectful 271:18

Respectfully 324:10

respectively 190:21

respirator 170:15

respiratory 32:16 43:15

45:18 75:3,8 149:4

189:24 203:18

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Spanish 281:13

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SPAULDING 2:11

speak 4:18 11:14 55:13

61:15 97:11 100:8

125:16 131:24 136:18

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90:1 100:5 107:22

122:9 131:16,17 140:17

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195:4 209:4 217:12

233:6 245:2,24 250:24

266:6 281:10 283:5,23

298:19 310:22 337:4

351:18 352:2,8 362:8

363:12

speaking 12:1 49:4 86:13

232:17,18 305:12 358:7

species 94:23

specific 36:2 82:9 174:13

176:13 181:20 204:23

225:5 237:8 277:14

290:23 343:13 353:7

356:24 357:24

specifically 37:22 50:16

68:17 70:1 71:7 75:5

83:22 154:2 358:7

specification 232:5

specifications 53:21

specifics 280:11 347:2

specified 83:12,13,16

specify 232:2

spectrum 277:23

speech 211:16

speeches 90:20

speed 135:3 154:16

191:24

spell 11:17 193:20 266:3

315:14

spelled 78:12 90:5

147:12 183:6 305:21

314:11 357:11

spelling 352:11

Spencer's 255:22

spend 271:11

spending 146:12 361:1

spent 9:13 40:15 57:8

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spilled 315:15

spiral 59:7

spirit 54:24

spite 280:3

split 92:5 226:6 309:16

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splitting 94:24

spoken 211:12

sponsoring 283:11

sporadically 5:10

sporting 110:9

spraying 49:1

spread 20:9 142:2

spring 111:8

spruce 342:4

spur 88:22 328:12

square 1:16 123:19

225:11 335:8

square-inch 225:7

squeeze 18:11

stability 190:15

stabilize 319:6

stable 52:10

stack 208:8 235:19

286:20,24 291:5 309:16

stacks 291:10

staff 12:13 13:18 67:14

194:13,16 208:13 353:2

staged 179:22

stages 165:6

stagnant 246:19

stagnation 307:11,13

stainless 335:10

stake 37:4

stakeholders 36:6 39:19

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stand 114:24 196:20

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standard 30:5 31:4 33:7

33:13 34:15,16 40:7,12

40:13 41:15 53:8 54:9

54:17 55:2,10 57:8

83:19 107:4 118:21

119:5 129:12 135:19

136:7 138:22 139:17

145:9 152:13 154:23

155:5 163:2,5 164:4

165:5 186:2,4 190:3

201:12,24 207:9 215:3

234:3 235:10 236:20

237:13,15 239:7 241:20

241:21 242:13,13 244:1

244:2 247:17 256:5

258:10,11,14,16 274:20

277:4,24 279:4 283:14

283:19 293:22 296:20

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352:20 353:11,17 354:2

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standardizes 154:13

standards 1:9 2:18 7:6

7:21 8:1,5 9:14 25:20

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29:10,22 30:12 32:4,23

34:9,13,19 35:11,15,18

39:7 42:11,15,21 43:1

45:7,12,17 46:3,6,8,14

46:18,20 47:2,4,14,23

48:3 49:5 53:1,13,15,24

64:13 68:11 69:8,13,14

71:10 72:6 73:13,14,17

73:23 75:13,24 76:1,4,9

76:9 77:17 78:18,20

80:1 87:3 88:13,21,23

89:5,9,15,17,20 117:14

137:19 138:6 139:8,12

142:9 148:1,8,14

149:13,24 151:20,24

152:3,22 155:8 162:3,8

162:9,11,16,23 163:1

163:11,19 164:14,20

165:9 166:15 167:7

170:19 173:3 184:15

187:14 191:4,15 192:2

200:2 201:21 205:2,19

205:22 206:12 211:9

218:13 219:1,5 220:6

220:14,20 221:13

234:19 235:7 236:16

237:17 238:8 239:4

243:9,16,22,24 244:17

244:23 245:15,21,23

246:22 247:1,5,14,20

259:13 261:12,14,20

262:4,6,11,13 264:16

264:17 273:18 306:17

313:10 319:15,17,19,20

320:5,10 322:24 323:1

324:8,11 326:3 328:20

328:23 329:6,22,24

330:2 332:3 353:6,24

355:12

standing 13:2 114:23

stands 132:24 268:17

340:21

Stanley 105:22,22 106:8

106:11

Star 120:14

Starches 287:6

start 2:7 12:1 15:14

108:12 112:8 117:13

128:21 129:19 143:19

175:8,9,15 177:15

215:16,19,21 217:17

249:4 250:16 254:6

272:9 330:20 337:24

started 141:22 142:1

175:6 193:8 213:23

214:11 248:15,16 311:6

311:11 338:4,13,15

339:6

starter 175:3,5

starting 95:6 162:21

starts 215:14 226:13,19

231:13

startup 174:19 175:8,11

275:4

startups 216:13

state 11:15 31:17 33:1,5

33:7 58:6 70:9 75:17

78:24 79:8,13 80:14,15

84:20 93:11,11 132:2

147:20,21,22 172:19,21

179:6 183:15 187:18

192:8 193:18 200:1

208:13 211:12 213:6

226:24 232:19 234:10

234:15 236:6,21 237:19

237:19 240:2,12,14

241:8,9 242:3,5,15

243:16,21 244:10

246:12 251:5,13 258:11

258:16 262:10 300:14

301:1 303:2 305:21,24

306:10,17 307:15

308:20 310:9 328:14

340:13 350:12 359:15

stated 70:24 129:11

253:9 255:9 278:8

316:9

statement 7:2 130:6,10

130:14 140:24 272:20

statements 141:5 179:13

states 25:11 27:18 31:8

39:3 47:11,17 52:20

53:11 57:16 58:5,24

93:17 100:10 104:23

108:1 109:9 111:18

113:18 114:14 125:14

126:9 127:15 130:7,9

136:10 143:8 147:14,17

148:12 150:4,19 151:14

151:18,24 152:7 155:11

166:7 170:20 189:9

209:15 218:6 227:16

228:3 237:7 240:3,4

242:5 246:2 252:10

253:21 262:9 275:18

281:19 299:3 300:18

301:7,13 302:2,4 303:3

308:6,9 320:4 322:23

323:11 353:1 355:17

359:24

statewide 236:3

state's 132:13 168:9

236:1,9 240:24 244:1

264:16 309:5

state-level 271:14

state-of-the-art 266:19

state-specific 234:11

stating 175:22 180:21

181:4 254:16

stationary 32:13 189:13

261:20,22

stations 91:14

statistics 189:8

stay 12:9 17:4 212:19

254:13 265:11 352:1,6

362:12

stayed 293:19

steady 114:11

steel 20:22 21:23 335:10

Steinert 209:4,6,7

stenographic 364:9

stent 171:19

step 12:7,7 22:4 23:5

35:15 49:8 68:9,22

69:19,24 70:16,20

71:18,19,23 77:13

88:13 94:7 117:18

122:6 124:3 128:11

192:3 204:22 245:24

269:13 274:18 312:14

313:12,24

Stephen 293:24

steps 37:3 41:14 187:3

204:19 243:15

step-one 307:22

step-two 46:18

Steve 100:6 104:21

283:24

Stevenson 63:9 145:1

281:8

Stevenson's 63:17

stick 13:4

sticker 103:7,9 114:13

still 34:11 61:9 67:1 80:12

104:8 105:17 106:9

114:1,23 125:19 165:6

167:14 169:24 178:5

191:12 234:11,24

237:20 238:6,9 248:21

271:19 272:13 280:5

299:17 307:4,5 312:8

318:2 325:15 334:23

340:22 346:1 351:21

stimulate 329:13

stipulated 335:22

stock 62:21 82:6 183:13

301:12 302:3,5

stockholders 111:15

stocking 115:24 305:7

stoke 226:20 227:14

stood 280:13

stop 17:18 49:15 111:1,4

194:11 217:6 317:17

stops 12:4 145:15

storage 156:17 159:16

341:1 359:13 360:2

store 90:8 327:17

stores 10:3 112:11 295:5

stories 113:9 168:2 253:1

storms 253:11

story 119:22 120:1

314:12 315:5

stove 2:17 5:4 8:11,12

9:19 10:6,8 15:7,8

17:12,15,19 22:15

27:20 28:20,23 51:8

54:11 63:2 64:2,6,17

65:8 69:7 80:6,18,19

82:2 83:3 86:8 92:7,8

92:16 95:14,24 100:10

100:20,20,24,24 101:11

101:22 102:8,9,24

103:4,23,23 104:23

105:4,9,10,11,13,19,24

106:11,18 107:6,9,12

107:16 108:1 109:9

111:18 114:14 120:10

121:22 122:2 125:15

126:2,9 130:7 134:20

143:1,17 144:11,15,19

144:22,24 145:4,9,12

146:1,4 147:5,9 156:20

170:23 174:8 175:9

176:16 181:23 197:7,16

198:11 199:8,14,18,19

199:23 200:7,15,16

201:13 218:11 219:16

221:7,18 222:13 226:4

227:2 229:7 231:14,24

232:4 244:8 246:5,13

249:8,12 251:11,24

252:3,10 257:14,23

258:1,22,24 259:22

260:7 262:1,4,10,11

264:20 265:1,4,10

267:4 276:2 278:6,9,12

278:14,18 280:6 281:7

281:12,21,24 282:16,17

282:23 284:3 286:4,5,8

286:8,15,18 287:17

288:1,8,11,17 289:9

290:3,6 291:7,15,15,21

292:15,18 293:7,12,13

297:21 306:11,20 309:3

309:4,14,15,15 316:2

324:19 326:22,22 327:2

327:9,15,22 328:18,19

329:1 330:20 332:22

333:15,23 334:16 335:2

335:17 336:19 337:14

338:6 344:13 345:5,11

346:3,4,5,17,17,19,22

347:10 352:17 353:14

354:11,19 355:19,20,21

356:5,24 357:4 360:9

stoves 3:1,2,3,6,9,17 5:6

5:16 6:1,4 8:4,9,15 9:21

10:2 14:23 17:1,11,17

17:21 18:13,14,16,18

19:12 20:3,21 21:1,4,7

21:9,19 22:2 23:4 24:6

27:11 28:5,20 29:3,5,7

29:8 31:21 33:4,15,19

33:21 36:20 37:19 38:5

38:7,10 42:13,15 43:5

46:16,16,20 48:3 51:3

54:7 61:8,13 62:21 63:7

65:11,15,20,24 66:5,24

68:18,21 75:15 80:3,10

81:10,13,17,19 82:10

82:23,23 85:6 86:3 87:7

88:17 90:9,9,11 92:18

93:7,8 94:1,3,4,9,11

96:11,12,18,20 97:1,2,8

97:10 98:7 99:7,19,19

99:22 100:15 101:15,15

104:14 105:7,17 106:20

106:22 107:2 110:20,23

115:9,9,10 117:19

118:11,20 119:2,2,3,4,6

119:10,12,14,15,23

121:2,5,13,18,19,23

126:1 133:20 135:10,13

137:3 138:7,12 142:11

143:1,24 144:6,20

145:8,18,20 146:15,19

146:21,21 147:2,7

152:5,24 167:12,23

171:12,22 178:7 182:5
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256:21 257:11 258:9

259:4,8,11,16 260:8,9

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261:15 262:7 263:5,8

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274:12 277:4 278:2,17

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280:5 281:5,15,17,20

281:22 282:12,20 283:4

283:12,16,18 286:1,6

287:10,22 288:19,22

289:2,11 292:11 309:23

324:2,18 325:17,22

326:7,8 327:14 328:9

329:18,19 331:1,9,12

331:15,18 333:2 334:11

335:24 336:4,6,14,17

337:12 344:23 345:19

347:1 350:8 352:19

354:15 355:4,10 356:22

357:8,8

stove's 263:21

straightforward 80:7

strategic 115:7

strategies 26:19

strategy 98:9 321:5

straw 279:11 280:5,7,8

280:12,13,16,19,22

281:4 283:11 284:4

strengthen 8:3 200:24

313:18 328:10

strengthened 34:6 54:20

strengthening 73:11

86:23

stress 288:19 289:23

strict 53:17 155:10

stricter 118:21 152:22

strictest 164:17

strictly 177:20

strides 25:15 234:22

stringent 27:14 28:17

29:11 35:14 69:23

138:18 202:17 205:6

206:19 207:23 256:14

258:11

stringently 72:8

striving 81:6 93:13

strokes 4:10

strong 41:21 48:1 50:12

53:1 133:22 135:2

143:5 195:17 214:3

233:16 245:20

stronger 75:21 76:1,3

114:20

strongly 18:1 39:24 69:3

69:14 72:7 82:21 85:3

104:5 116:1 132:3,6

135:8 136:6 137:6

139:3 191:14 243:19

336:11

structures 208:5

struggle 309:19 355:6

360:22

struggling 110:12

studied 268:6

studies 43:12 74:1 75:4

144:24 149:2 234:23

242:4 243:5 255:15

331:7,8

studs 144:13,14

study 35:24 76:21 145:1

151:3 154:23 166:24

190:8 253:19 268:11,15

268:18 269:2 281:8,11

332:4,9,13,17,23 333:9

studying 34:11

stuff 182:20 347:4,15

stunned 120:8

stunning 278:16

subgroups 189:22

subject 45:6,11 52:10

53:5,17 54:3 69:16

subjected 172:10

submission 30:19 156:10

156:12 178:6

submit 137:23 245:9,11

290:14 348:5 350:19

355:3 357:22

submittal 239:13

submitted 140:20 180:8

247:4 248:1

submitting 11:4 30:18

55:14 178:19 297:15

subsequent 260:23

subsidiary 318:23

substances 32:6

substantial 43:3 178:1

241:6,16 242:17 243:13

244:13

substantially 97:2 325:13

substruct 330:18

succeeded 311:19 338:2

success 113:9 275:7

successful 165:9 213:4

269:12 271:12 280:16

successfully 282:15

suddenly 261:24

sue 168:8

suffer 17:3 244:18

suffering 69:17 171:18

172:1

suffers 51:7

sufficient 130:3 137:2

336:15

suggest 41:13 104:5

116:1 226:23 250:19

356:2

suggested 23:5 263:20

290:17 353:9,15,20

suggesting 86:11

suggestion 328:10

suggestions 275:23

suggests 99:1,5 275:14

333:14

suit 168:13

suitable 355:16 356:14

suitcase 217:16

suite 1:17 150:11 306:23

sulphur 140:7

sum 222:8

sumac 342:6

summarize 329:15

summary 65:18 275:23

276:4

summer 3:20 88:10 111:9

169:2 249:5 284:20

sums 16:18

superiority 271:9

supervision 308:20

supervisor's 293:8

supplement 201:9

supplemental 5:22

127:24

supplier 162:4 339:1

suppliers 85:1 334:8,17

334:18 356:16

supply 92:2 107:12

221:21 236:9 315:6

Supplying 132:21

support 29:23 37:2,6,9

42:10 44:18 49:4 53:9

72:5 82:21 96:5 98:5

113:12 114:6 117:13

122:21 124:16 129:5

132:3 136:7,7 137:10

138:23 140:1,4 141:5

147:4 149:21 151:14

152:7,20 157:17 158:24

159:1 184:22 187:19

191:14 204:24 207:7

218:12,22 220:1,8

224:12 234:1 236:15,18

237:24 239:6,9 243:8

283:2 298:6 306:1

308:20 328:11 334:14

supported 142:8 245:19

supporter 195:17

supporting 130:19

174:23 175:18

supportive 68:14 243:20

244:22

supports 15:13 18:1

28:14 34:4 51:6 73:8

79:1 96:1 138:5 155:20

233:15 245:21 274:15

suppose 270:10 341:12

sure 12:17 63:8 66:20

91:1 111:7 161:7

164:10 272:22 290:18

290:24 292:22 306:8

352:3

surely 20:10 59:21

surface 225:7 226:9

295:15

surfaces 226:5,5

surprised 3:17 351:13

surprises 308:12

surrounded 170:7 171:11

surrounding 134:2

287:15 299:2 303:3

survey 63:18 233:18

236:3,7 281:19 283:11

331:11,11

surveys 331:8

survival 101:19

survive 21:21 114:16

216:5 360:24

surviving 22:23 337:18

susceptible 189:22

suspected 283:9

sustain 227:8

sustainability 30:9 92:6

339:20

sustainable 30:15 92:2

131:7 227:11 335:20

339:14,17

sustainably-harvested

184:13

sustained 167:19

sustaining 226:1

sustains 231:13

Suuberg 24:19 25:2,3,4

swap 147:5 160:12,13

346:22

Swedish 337:14

sweep 141:7,22,24 144:7

284:10,12,13,16,17

285:6 293:20 342:23

343:4

sweeper 344:11

sweeping 147:3

sweeps 142:4,10 145:6

145:17 147:4 284:7

swept 347:8

swiftly 77:16 87:2 89:19

swings 52:11

switches 133:19

sword 360:4

symptoms 45:18 87:20

synergies 54:12

system 11:23 34:19,23

35:11 40:7 43:8 70:17

123:14 128:2,2 130:18

149:5 163:18 225:18

231:17 312:2 317:11

344:22,24 345:8 346:6

systems 77:19 84:4,15

159:11 183:11 185:9,23

304:20 318:22 319:3

S-E-I-D-M-A-N 30:22

S-E-Y-M-O-U-R 183:7

S-U-U-B-E-R-G 25:4

T

table 11:13 12:14,16,24

13:19 104:4 115:15

194:14 195:2 230:9

tackling 346:24

Taft 90:19

tag 17:11 265:5 276:1,1,3

276:5

tagged 289:12

tags 120:7,9 291:2

tail 153:20

take 9:23 12:20 14:4

41:14 77:13 78:19

88:12 104:5 108:9

111:19 113:3 115:13

137:20 144:13 170:21

192:18 199:7 204:19

206:3 215:21 216:16

226:14 233:2 255:21

269:22 282:11 310:22

318:13 344:12,17,17

362:15

taken 23:3 94:3 124:4

126:19 168:16 193:5

243:15 251:8 318:16

363:7

takes 34:24 58:18 109:9

172:14 212:14,16

231:16

taking 37:3 44:24 49:8

54:21 72:16 99:8

115:12 126:2 192:2

208:8 221:10 245:24

256:2 269:8 321:12

336:2 346:5

talk 100:15 121:7 158:17

268:5 272:5 279:10

280:23 323:14

talked 158:5 252:15

348:10

talking 5:3 125:2 291:20

343:16 345:6

talks 90:19

tanked 142:19

target 231:10

targeting 262:1

targets 98:15 278:3

Tarm 357:12

taste 296:14

taught 309:10

tax 108:7 353:14

taxing 312:5

teach 88:4

teacher 360:11

teaching 337:15 360:12

Team 284:16

teams 156:21

tear 272:9

technical 59:3 186:19

192:4 196:1 298:9

330:12 339:2

technician 209:21

technique 290:1

techniques 359:20

technologically 271:2

technologically-inferior

149:16

technologies 28:4,11

39:15 42:22 46:13 64:3

71:6 88:15,22 89:10

155:13 159:21 183:22

184:21 186:3 187:5

197:24 198:15 202:1,20

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technology 4:15 8:17 9:9

24:9 25:14 28:1 34:20

41:4,8,23 49:12 63:24

71:22 72:11 73:18

75:24 81:1,3 82:24 84:5

84:11,13 89:13 119:13

119:19 121:20 138:2

145:19 146:20 147:7

149:23 150:20 155:17

156:16,17 157:14,16,17

159:9,19 160:11 161:2

183:24 185:4,8,13

196:9 199:11 202:19

205:21 214:17,24

228:11 230:13 247:12

247:17 258:7 260:7,13

260:17 262:5,14 267:19

270:23 271:15,24

279:23 281:23 284:24

285:4,5 299:10,16

310:12 311:17 312:3

325:22 335:19 360:9

technology's 108:8

technology-based

130:22 277:10

technology-performan...

150:14

teens 77:8 123:19

telephone 161:21

tell 100:19 119:23 120:9

173:10 197:13 227:23

289:19 298:24 314:12

telling 23:12

tells 279:24 339:21

temperature 255:10,17

277:12 285:17 286:9,21

291:22 292:1,4

temperatures 346:1

ten 21:2 27:21 40:15 41:2

52:22 57:5 63:3 88:6

90:12 101:21 112:13

142:3,5 143:6 161:1

165:2,17 177:7 196:7

204:6 212:17 226:8

229:24 233:17 235:24

265:9 285:20 307:2

tenable 107:5

tend 277:15 288:18

346:10

tendency 38:19

Tennessee 37:1 100:11

tens 324:24

ten-page 140:23

ten-year 334:1

ten-years 160:22

term 153:12 155:14

230:12 280:1,7,8,12

314:6

terms 28:12 119:20 120:7

164:18 279:16,19

292:12 293:3 336:16

terrible 120:11 171:19

terrific 3:2

territories 31:9

terrorism 255:8

Tesla 156:14 160:20

test 20:8 23:8 29:24

37:23 40:8 57:6,7,8,11

57:16,22 58:11,12,13

58:17,23,24 64:7 70:1,5

70:14 97:16,20,22,24

128:7 129:16 133:24

153:9,14,22 154:3,11

154:13 174:13,21 175:2

175:17 176:12,14

177:15 178:12,17,23

179:5,19,22 180:4,7

181:19 186:17 187:2

195:24,24 199:22

201:21 207:8,13,14

209:9 210:20 211:3,10

214:9 215:4,12 216:1

219:16 220:2,11 222:14

224:17 225:14 228:14

228:24 229:12,17 230:1

230:21 232:8 238:3

260:23 267:14 268:6,7

268:13 271:11 274:5

275:4 276:11 278:5,5

298:10 302:16,17

303:13,15 308:14,18,19

311:20 313:15,16

315:23 317:23 324:11

324:12 328:20 332:8,12

332:14 333:14 336:2,15

340:17,17,18,19 341:10

341:11 353:22 354:23

356:4,11 358:6,18,22

359:1,12,16 360:18

361:12,18,20,21,22

tested 40:11 53:16 58:2

62:19 119:10 138:24

228:14 273:24 292:18

305:4 309:24 316:12

318:2 340:14,19,20

359:3,5

testified 106:3 240:1

testify 12:22 14:21 18:22

25:9 31:3 36:5 42:10

67:18 68:6 116:21,23

166:16 239:6 250:22

251:3

testifying 202:8

testimonies 90:24 167:20

168:17

testimony 11:16,21 12:11

14:21 48:13 86:14

122:21 123:6 124:8

147:19 167:16 193:19

193:23 194:13 251:21

252:12 253:15 321:8

testing 16:19 21:16 35:16

54:5 57:21 58:15,18

84:5 102:15 116:5,5

118:16 126:9 128:6

129:19 138:20 139:16

154:7 161:13,17 162:1

163:10,13 164:13,19

174:11,15,23 175:21

176:1,4,17,23 177:4,16

178:3,10,15,24 179:14

181:3,8,9,11,24 185:18

186:5,6 206:17 209:16

210:6 211:8 212:15

213:12,16 214:9,11

218:23 219:12 220:3

222:20 223:2 224:20,23

225:2 230:24 237:22

239:9 247:14,20 248:22

249:5,7 252:9 266:20

266:23 267:19 270:12

270:14,21 271:7,21

273:13 298:8 299:8

302:15 311:22 316:13

317:21 318:9 320:4

324:24 354:8 355:8

358:10 361:2

tests 175:23 179:20

181:5 207:12 215:5,14

215:21 230:2,7 266:16

269:1 273:23 302:18

340:8,8,16 341:3

testsmith 354:7,9

thank 6:16,22 7:16 11:8,9

14:20 18:21,24 19:1,2,3

24:10,16,17 25:3,8

30:19,20 31:2 36:4,11

36:12,14 42:2,4,9 48:4

48:5,8,12 51:10,13

55:12,15,16,18 61:3,4,5

66:9,10 67:6,7,8,17

72:14,15 78:3,4,7,15

85:13,16,17 86:16,17

89:20,21,24 95:17,19

100:3,4,7 104:19,24

107:18,20,21 116:17,18

122:6,7 125:11,15

131:14,15 132:1 136:12

136:13 140:11,13,16

147:9,10 156:2,3,6

161:8 165:11,12,13

174:3,5 180:8,9 182:23

183:1,8 187:10 192:13

192:14 199:1 202:3,4

208:19 209:1,2,3

213:17,19 217:6,8,11

222:18 223:8,19 228:9

228:19,20 232:24 233:2

239:5,15,19,22 244:23

245:1 248:3 250:23

251:2 256:12,23 265:18

265:20 266:2,5 267:9

273:8 274:7 283:21

290:10 292:9,20 293:15

293:16,20 298:16

305:11,14 310:20 311:1

314:7,8 318:10,11,19

321:13 323:16,18 330:3

336:22,23 337:1 342:18

348:3,4 351:15,16

352:15 357:9 361:23

362:4,6,20,23 363:5

thankful 254:1

thanks 2:11 6:24 7:17

24:13 86:15 136:19

193:3 222:17 283:22

293:17 342:10 362:17

363:3

their 4:6,23 5:5,11,12,24

6:3 9:10,10 22:5,9,17

22:20 23:13 25:12 29:2

33:5 37:10 38:3,7 42:23

50:10,13,19,22,22

52:21 54:1,7 56:7 58:6

63:23 64:11,19 65:12

74:22 77:7,24 79:24

81:9 84:3,15 88:7,7,19

91:12,24 92:7,18,20

93:6 101:9 104:4

108:17,21,22 111:6,7

114:5 116:7,11,12

121:16 127:9 128:19,20

131:1 132:1,24 133:1

135:9,13 136:18 139:4

142:22 143:1 145:2,13

145:24,24 147:2,17

154:20 160:7,13 163:16

163:24 166:19 167:19

168:6,9,11 172:5 173:7

173:10 176:2 181:8

189:20 193:22 194:6

197:12 198:23 200:12

201:9,12 204:20 208:10

208:18 212:8 213:7

221:1 230:15 231:5

232:3,12,14,22 237:6

240:16 243:11 244:14

246:1 249:22 252:18,20

252:22 253:3,3 254:8

256:9,23 263:7 264:22

278:8 280:3,14,14

281:22 283:4,13,15

285:18 288:9 289:20

297:4,10,13 299:23

303:8 304:1,13 307:9

313:16 315:17 318:8

319:6 323:1 328:20

331:9 334:2,12 335:16

336:20,24 344:8,8,20

354:8,15 356:23,23

themselves 53:17 106:18

241:24 253:3 279:20,22

308:7

theoretically 18:11

theory 280:11 347:19

thereabouts 193:23

thermal 156:23 159:16

184:10 187:4 294:6

296:17 359:13 360:2

thermometer 292:5

thermostats 142:22

they'd 112:5,14,15

142:13 160:16 340:2

352:3

thick 287:24

thicknesses 335:7

thimble 345:2

thing 65:19 105:15 210:2

222:4 254:15 268:5

277:8 279:9 282:21

307:7 347:23

things 4:3,12 5:9 7:14

9:22 11:6,10 13:7 14:3

16:21 91:2,5 108:4,15

149:18 156:18 157:13

157:17 160:19 172:13

182:18 244:5 254:23

272:21 291:3,23 295:18

328:7 344:2,5 345:4

348:12 349:7,22 350:2

350:7,15 351:2

think 3:16 14:5 20:2

50:21 85:23 99:19

102:7 108:13 109:6

117:4,17 118:22 121:24

122:5,12 124:12 130:3

157:7,9,12 158:8,16,20

159:5,10,12 160:12

194:4,19,21 201:11,20

216:9 230:17,18 231:4

249:19 255:1 259:4

271:22 274:4 277:6

279:14 288:10,12 289:7

291:12 293:19 306:9,15

315:21 326:17 341:16

342:14 343:23 344:14

346:9,13 347:13,22

350:5,7,17 351:4

thinking 305:2

third 14:3 65:2 138:9

194:18 199:9,13 221:13

276:9 279:9 353:8

Thirdly 207:7

third-party 53:6 161:13

161:18 164:18 211:24

332:12 356:6

thirty 40:16 99:8 142:6

194:6 224:7 231:11,15

231:16,22 266:23

274:13 287:13

thirty-day 178:9,13,19,21

179:2

thirty-five 100:21

thirty-four 270:19

thirty-plus 258:19

Thomas 266:7 274:10

337:21

though 46:4 159:3 235:2

243:21 283:6 315:6

349:24 360:10

thought 144:8 198:19

249:3 308:16

thoughts 156:9 293:5

thousand 26:21 157:8

164:7 170:9,9 233:17

thousands 75:14 89:1

112:17 165:21 167:14

230:7 325:1 338:11

361:1

threat 68:4 72:3 126:22

255:8

threaten 4:12 77:6

threatens 109:20

threats 68:9 149:9

three 16:5 18:8 21:5

50:14 57:11 63:24 88:5

118:13 132:19 134:3

137:4 141:21,23 144:17

149:17 170:2 171:7,14

172:12 176:19 194:19

195:20 209:17,18

214:20 216:4,5 218:21

219:5,11 231:10 241:22

260:17 265:9 268:23
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

Page 34

270:23 275:12 285:22

288:6 306:11 314:23

325:7 332:18 340:16

353:5 357:1

three-phase 156:16

three-step 35:7 336:11

three-way 306:14

threshold 263:17 359:7

thrift 309:9

thrilled 335:5

throat 77:3

through 13:10,22 40:8

53:3 62:15 65:2 93:23

111:8 114:21 127:11,13

128:23 164:20 167:19

169:12 182:14 184:18

190:9 212:17 249:1

273:20 276:14 285:23

286:2,3,10,22 295:1

302:13,24 314:22

325:11 327:12 328:3

329:22 335:14 356:6

throughout 43:19 52:15

67:16,22 76:14 81:22

106:5 124:18,19 135:19

205:23 216:19 295:10

throw 344:15

throwing 282:1

tie 344:21

tied 16:14 346:7

tight 109:23

tightened 109:14

tightening 177:5

tighter 35:18 236:16

307:19,24

tightness 170:14

tile 337:14

Tim 251:1,4

timber 132:24 161:12

162:4 163:14,21 164:1

timberland 132:23

time 5:16 8:16 9:9 19:11

22:9 23:3 24:10 30:17

31:20 33:10 42:24 45:9

51:11 56:9 61:3 72:16

75:21 78:2 79:19 84:1

84:17 88:20 89:4 90:13

90:21 92:15,16 104:19

107:19 108:3 112:18

115:14 116:5,10,24

118:3 123:3 130:3,4

131:12 135:4 138:17

141:3 143:16 144:21

146:9,12 148:2,5,6

155:18 156:8 168:14

171:18,24 174:22 176:4

181:11 183:19 193:15

194:8,8 199:5 200:13

200:14 202:22 212:14

213:18 222:17 226:11

228:9 229:5 242:23

243:10 248:3,18,24

251:8 256:12,24 265:19

267:12 270:1,18 273:7

277:11 286:11 287:2

295:24 298:17 301:3

304:4 311:2 312:8,19

313:11,15 314:7,18

318:12 321:12,13 324:8

332:24 336:15,18

337:22 348:3,5 353:8

354:17,20

timeframe 109:24 185:3

185:16

timekeeping 11:22

timely 206:13 308:15,19

timer 193:24

times 45:24 64:5 73:17

114:3 144:12 167:4,6,9

220:21 275:4 287:16

321:10 344:9 357:1

Timing 152:21

Tinnemore 298:19

305:12,20 310:19

tip 360:3

toaster 282:14

tobacco 341:24

today 3:11 6:17 7:3,23

10:3 23:13 25:9 31:1

44:18 46:15 49:4 55:13

65:10 67:2,5,18 68:6

72:16,19 79:16 87:1

89:10 91:6 92:20

100:15 101:13,18 102:2

102:10 103:9 104:1,6

105:11 108:11 114:20

114:24 119:11 123:1

125:16 128:22 129:17

131:24 133:16 135:22

136:18 141:9 143:3

150:22 156:9 161:23

167:16 174:6 187:20

195:13 196:12 197:8

202:8 203:1 205:12

206:1 210:9 211:16

215:11 221:15 223:15

233:23 238:12 245:13

246:24 248:13 251:4

252:13 259:7 266:11

267:21 268:22 273:8

275:8 276:23 278:8

279:13 281:10 288:18

294:12 297:20 298:24

318:20 319:14 320:22

322:18 327:4 329:20

330:3,5 331:6 340:22

343:5 352:21,21 357:24

today's 2:4 11:7 12:18

65:22 93:1 94:1 185:11

326:24 333:1

together 5:23 6:13 38:17

41:22 96:8,11 104:7,8

113:2 121:16 124:15

125:10 227:24 229:17

234:14 238:20 253:16

332:6 344:21 346:15

told 54:16 101:10 120:1

178:23 252:21 332:4

Tom 245:2,5

ton 26:21 40:18,22 59:15

59:19 220:22

tone 356:18,19

tons 31:24 43:19 44:23

45:10 59:14,18 137:1

164:7 189:11 235:24

296:18

tool 191:22 192:11

tooling 262:24

tools 6:13 349:3

top 35:13 63:21,23,24

79:17 126:18 162:21

196:6 214:21 260:11

topic 25:10 61:14

topography 208:4

top-down 340:15

toss 354:23

total 22:3 44:12 45:9

65:15 190:11 216:4

226:9,10 235:3 236:1

327:7

totally 59:4 94:6 142:8

totally-artificial 199:22

touch 141:3 255:6 341:15

343:13

touched 345:22

touching 253:1

toward 49:8 93:13 307:24

towards 47:7 71:19,23

187:6 233:14 304:2

town 241:17

towns 26:6 188:19

toxic 3:23 32:8,15 42:12

44:9,15 171:24 187:22

189:15

toxics 48:15 50:6,14 51:5

155:3 203:19

toxins 26:3

tracks 17:18

trade 29:2 40:24 51:20

218:14 316:6

trade-in 262:12

Trading 323:22

tradition 240:12 337:19

338:24 339:1

traditional 128:1 216:16

traditionally 52:9

traffic 12:6

training 215:8

transaction 289:14

transcript 1:4 10:19,20

11:19

transcription 364:9

transferred 168:4

transition 155:15 220:1

transitioning 238:3

translate 297:22

transportation 61:22

111:24

transported 74:23

trap 133:18 282:19

trapped 50:18 241:11

travel 68:6 178:13 245:13

traveled 251:7

traveling 295:10

Travis 278:7

treated 161:20 163:7

tree 62:1,1 342:3

trees 61:19,22 342:8

treetops 256:19

tremendous 96:13 98:17

trend 158:9

trends 236:8

trial 177:17

Triangle 7:22

trickle 112:9

tried 337:24

trigger 4:12

trip 338:15 339:4

tripled 91:16

triple-acting 317:11

trips 214:22

trivial 97:10

trouble 286:14

troublemaker 360:12

troublemaker's 360:13

troubling 249:13

trout 88:2,2

truck 285:12

true 282:5 297:3 339:21

364:8

truly 137:12 222:3

trusses 161:21

truth 253:20 254:23

255:16

truthful 253:15 255:23

try 4:22 50:9 112:15

120:14 134:22 166:7

168:8 171:9 194:10

206:2 273:17 305:17

322:7 341:15 346:3,4

349:3

trying 56:8 85:19 120:2

166:13 171:7 179:9

201:23 205:18 241:2

244:15 250:15,16 252:5

315:1 321:10 324:14

340:9

tubes 260:10 342:13

Tuesday 230:20

tune 230:13

tuned 328:19

turbulence 277:12

turn 7:14 9:22 11:6,14

12:1 109:15 126:19

127:9 128:3,14 142:22

163:9 198:23 207:21

232:1 258:17 287:23

290:20

turned 337:13

turning 91:23 133:10

263:13 350:8,9

turnover 206:16

turns 97:23

Twain 295:10 337:20

twelve 143:8 163:9,12

167:9 226:8 241:20

285:21,21

twenty 23:1 45:5 49:20

99:7 101:15 142:6

150:1 210:2 230:3

241:18 251:19 261:21

267:3 311:7 314:15

315:11,12

twenty-five 101:19

224:22 258:2

twenty-gram 199:19

200:15

twenty-two 358:2

twice 135:18 241:19

284:15

two 5:23 9:7,19 11:12

12:8 14:7 16:21,24

20:19 21:6 22:2,4 23:6

24:18 40:17 41:2 49:24

50:3 56:17 58:8 63:21

64:1 70:21 71:3,15

75:22 88:9 110:5

132:15 140:17 142:17

144:17 153:18 156:4,11

158:21 167:22 170:5

175:19 183:2 193:14

195:4,24 199:18 200:11

209:4 210:7 215:13

217:12 218:24 232:9

233:6 245:2 248:21

250:24 258:4 264:15

266:6 268:8 269:13

272:21 276:3,24 277:20

278:2 279:17 283:22

284:19 296:8,15,18

298:18 300:23 301:8,17

301:23 302:6,11,14

303:6,10 304:12,19

310:21 311:11,15

313:10 320:2 334:15

337:4 351:17 352:1,8

353:3,5,18 355:24

356:20,21 361:14

two-and-a-half 338:8

two-by-four 314:18 318:4

two-by-fours 317:2

two-step 35:6 274:16

two-thirds 37:19 221:15

327:18

two-tiered 329:11 330:3

two-ton 151:4

two-year 333:17

type 8:10 10:6 24:3 37:17

56:24 98:21 125:22

164:16 260:22 280:9

301:6

types 8:6 23:19 50:18

82:20 83:13 107:2

115:5 148:7 150:12

154:2 157:21 159:10

260:6,14,17 261:10

262:4 320:21

typical 27:11 197:1

typically 27:6 150:21

154:5 273:16 301:16

T-I-N-N-E-M-O-R-E

305:20

U

uh-huh 222:23 348:7

UL 292:17

ultimately 81:4 126:19

256:11

unacceptable 302:12

unaffected 127:22

unaffordable 38:1

unaltered 332:13

unanimous 199:21

unannounced 164:2

unanswered 282:8
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

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unaware 166:3

Uncertainly 360:14

uncertainty 98:23 99:9

324:20 360:14

uncertified 86:12 96:11

96:18,20 221:17 225:1

292:16

unclear 187:7 212:4

uncommon 207:19

uncontrolled 19:12 59:12

under 9:6 22:10 34:13

35:9 38:5 46:12 49:23

65:10,22,23 71:20

73:15 119:6 138:22

152:2 165:2 168:9

200:22 201:4 210:7

245:11 300:11,24

301:22 303:9 305:5

320:13 322:5,8,11,14

323:6 326:24

underestimate 20:4

154:4

underestimated 324:24

underlying 356:18

undermines 326:11

undermining 131:10

underprivileged 107:14

underscore 9:24 80:5

84:17 105:16

underscores 55:3

understand 17:13 19:24

66:21 67:8 86:10 93:13

94:10 108:13 115:1

175:10 178:5 227:21

244:15 301:22 309:22

understanding 54:10

73:21 98:9 139:18

178:10 205:5 206:18

353:18 361:10

understands 96:3

understate 196:15

undoubtedly 269:21

undue 6:14

unemployment 126:17

unending 177:17

unenviable 23:16

unforeseen 343:23 350:7

350:15

unfortunate 99:24 208:15

279:15

unfortunately 15:20 24:3

75:10 191:12 205:20

unfounded 254:3 255:13

unhealthy 74:20

unheated 286:22

unintended 17:23 19:9

24:5 319:15

union 27:13 36:24 71:9

206:19

unique 210:4 294:6

297:11,19

unit 19:20 58:2 81:2

83:12 151:2 152:16

153:24 157:7 206:21

207:20 208:7 214:21

226:20 231:12 271:18

296:6,8 311:15,20

312:2 313:5 316:6

326:15,15 327:18 341:1

United 25:11 27:18 39:2

52:20 53:11 93:17

100:10 104:23 108:1

109:9 111:18 113:17

114:13 125:14 126:9

127:14 130:7,9 150:4

150:19 170:20 189:9

209:15 228:3 359:24

units 3:10 9:18 19:16

20:1,9 21:17 22:20 27:6

27:9,15,23 56:14 58:5

59:24 61:1,2 75:18

81:18,19 82:18 83:6

84:21,24 85:10,21 89:3

90:10 98:1,17,22 99:15

99:17 110:16 112:12

148:11 152:18 153:3

155:15 157:9 160:6,14

188:20,22 190:23 191:5

205:8,10 206:8,20

207:1,3,5,16 208:7,10

208:16 215:24 221:22

243:12 247:6,10 297:24

299:19,24 300:22

303:13 304:23 313:16

314:5 317:6 320:12,17

362:1,2

unit's 22:21

universe 152:1,1 203:6

University 156:22 253:18

unknown 231:6 259:15

unless 250:20 342:11

unlicensed 350:10

unlike 92:19 228:7 237:7

305:13 307:8

unlimited 76:15

Unlimited's 88:2

unlisted 289:10

unnecessary 39:12 129:2

179:8

unpredictably 325:2

unproven 174:22

unquestionably 334:9

unrealistic 83:19 176:22

unreasonable 129:2

301:3

unregulated 8:11 38:24

unsafe 351:6

unsettled 358:22

unstable 56:5,10 226:15

unsupportable 276:13

untested 64:13

until 11:2 12:9,9,19,20

77:20 106:6 121:19

135:20 145:14 173:1

269:20 272:9 287:19

288:6 295:12 314:6

350:16 361:12 363:4

untrue 335:12

unusable 177:1

unusual 275:7

update 47:19 68:13 100:2

183:18 218:13 243:8,11

244:14,22 289:20 306:2

updated 70:19 72:6 73:13

73:16 239:7 306:4

updates 8:22 73:9

updating 239:4

updraft 312:2

upgrade 82:8,16 84:2

114:4 200:11 309:2

upgraded 243:12 265:4

317:7

upper 45:18 322:11

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urge 18:10 30:16 38:11

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139:23 186:22 191:21

208:20 276:9 308:10

urges 72:7 73:11 75:20

76:7

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usage 207:9 355:2

use 5:7,7 10:3 18:14

19:11 20:13 27:9,17

37:19 38:3 39:5,15

42:23 45:2 46:15 57:1

67:1 77:2 80:19 81:3

86:9 89:10 114:1 120:6

133:7,12 138:11 145:2

145:18 146:15,19

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167:13 175:19,22 176:9

176:11 177:20 181:2,4

181:16,18 184:11,23

191:4 192:11 193:11

197:24 202:22 204:19

205:7 207:11,15 227:4

236:8 238:2 242:6

246:7 247:10 253:2

260:12 264:2 279:11,23

280:1,7,8 304:5,16

320:12,19,23 321:19

322:16 331:5 350:9

355:18 359:20 360:1

used 16:1 18:7 30:6 70:9

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154:5 155:9 156:23,24

163:24 197:2 201:1

203:7 207:16 220:22

239:10 288:18 294:15

355:23 356:13 359:13

useful 144:9 276:20

useless 264:2

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288:21

users 64:2 183:16 325:21

user-friendly 63:23

185:14

uses 60:15 279:15,18

304:18 317:14 354:9

using 30:1 35:21 40:2

58:22 77:18 88:19

145:24 207:8 228:8

249:4,21 259:14 264:10

298:14 299:18 302:15

303:13 312:2 315:20

350:8 359:3 361:18

usually 287:5 299:10

327:5

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utilize 93:9

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245:6 248:2 258:3

298:12 302:2 303:19

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V 174:7

valid 139:24 176:14

181:21

validated 174:24

validity 130:15

valley 123:24 242:2

valleys 3:18 241:10

246:17 307:12

valuable 340:23

value 22:18 45:23 54:22

55:9 78:19 118:6 190:4

228:17,17 273:4 325:18

valued 191:19

variability 179:23 268:6,7

268:12 269:2,8,16,24

variables 70:4

variable-speed 156:15

Variations 294:13

varies 231:10

variety 3:4 36:19 148:7

150:3

various 259:2 267:14,22

277:17 285:14 320:20

vary 279:3

vascular 9:4

vast 31:12 71:3 231:5

vehicle 125:3 134:15

160:17 175:3 285:11

vehicles 142:5 285:8

vending 291:1,5

vendors 159:15 183:15

vent 286:23 345:1

venting 286:15 288:24

290:16

venture 270:20

verb 85:22

verify 163:16 164:3 334:9

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51:9,10 55:18 56:5,8

61:3 62:6,7,8 66:9 78:7

78:15 80:10 81:13

83:18 89:24 97:13

100:5 103:12 119:20

121:15 122:5,14 124:12

125:5,8 129:18 132:8

135:8 136:19 137:21

138:17 140:11 142:4

146:5 153:21 173:23

174:4 177:13,14 182:23

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214:5 216:20 217:5,11

218:20 219:3 222:17

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231:3 240:9 243:19

244:22 245:1 246:6

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271:18 273:6 278:9,9

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283:20,20,21 284:4

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295:21 310:21 312:5

323:17 328:15 333:10

333:19 348:3 352:18

357:21

veteran 94:20 105:21,24

vetting 53:5

via 219:1,5 355:3

viability 312:23

viable 42:2 80:9 313:20

vibrant 201:1

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352:12

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videos 335:15

view 14:22 147:22 275:6

views 31:15 116:24

183:12

villages 242:2 340:24

violating 188:22

violation 83:14

Virginia 14:15 51:21

76:23 106:21

virtual 360:24

virtually 15:16 126:22

165:23 260:24 324:3

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visible 188:13 276:6

vision 159:23 161:8

233:14

visit 323:8,10

visited 321:9 323:3,17

visitors 172:16

visits 50:1 75:7 169:19

204:11

vital 42:11 44:15 78:23

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227:8,15

Vogelzang 100:6 104:20

104:21,22 109:17

voice 114:24 222:9

voiced 306:3

volatile 44:8 52:10 74:8

150:10 189:6 203:16

226:16

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volume 20:22 327:18

voluntarily 333:24

voluntary 40:5 41:15

57:20 70:22 98:15

191:3 238:13 302:24

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vouchers 28:24

VTech 183:11 184:9,14

186:16

vulnerable 43:10 77:12

V-O-G-E-L-Z-A-N-G

104:21

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waged 205:17

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wallets 64:20

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11:5 17:24 25:8 29:15

50:8 63:6 65:23 86:7

100:15 108:12 117:13

117:16,21 121:3,4

125:15 131:8 146:11

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172:24 174:3 177:20

179:12 180:22 183:8

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110:10 115:11 131:13

216:8 295:14 296:7

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warnings 357:5

warrantied 139:5

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275:1

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360:9

water-cooled 106:5

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312:8 321:23 329:1

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241:2 244:16 297:12

311:24 358:9

weather 20:15

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website 120:17 172:17

276:8,12 335:13 348:24

websites 255:22

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week 58:18 93:16 144:17

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291:8 292:17 293:6

300:7 306:5,23 307:11

312:19 316:24 317:13

323:13 341:10 347:15

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well-known 218:1

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we're 2:5 5:3 6:12 12:11

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we've 2:20 5:18,18 6:6

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willingness 95:8 137:13

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165:11,20,23,24 166:4

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168:12,23 169:5,7,9

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171:13,21 172:5,18,24

173:2,5,12,13,17,21

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230:10,14,16,18 231:4

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233:4,10,21 234:3,7,8

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242:18,21 243:17 244:8

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256:20,21 257:10,13,23

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259:8 260:7 261:15

262:1,7,21 263:13,21

264:19 265:1,2,3,12,13

266:13,17,24 267:4,14

270:12,13,17 271:4

272:18 273:10,13,20

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278:22 281:7,12,15,17

284:3 286:1,6,16,19

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289:24 290:11,14,19,22

291:1,8,10,17 292:9,20

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361:24 362:4,16,19

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Woodmaster 169:17

214:4

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wood-burning 25:11,16

25:23 38:21,24 39:10

39:23 40:1,14 41:11

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79:12 80:18 82:20 83:6

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171:12 191:8,16 192:9

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236:24 237:9 238:1

242:19 326:22 330:24

331:9 335:20

wood-fired 8:7 68:18

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wood-heating 33:16 96:4

137:8 138:8 151:21

152:12 185:9

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word 80:5 118:3

wording 178:5

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132:2 151:19 211:7

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235:8 238:23 250:10

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315:13 336:19 338:3

350:24

workable 220:11 306:9

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works 7:10 48:16 146:7

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world 24:2 30:3 35:17

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worldwide 150:1 202:22

332:16

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worsen 73:5

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wrapping 174:2

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written 10:19 11:1,4

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wrong 24:23 197:23

200:5 227:24 231:23

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wrote 105:22 290:8

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W-I-B-E-R-G 161:9

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yeah 22:12 165:15 223:4

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348:13,22 349:10,15,21

350:5,23 362:18

year 2:21 8:3 20:4,14

22:3 26:24 27:1,20 29:4

29:5 32:1 42:19 43:20

44:23 45:2,7,7,16,21

50:5 58:8 62:1 64:24

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110:17 112:12 117:3

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261:17,23 265:14

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years 9:8 15:15 23:1

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62:13,17 63:3 66:8,16

67:5,23 73:18,24 75:22

75:22 76:2 88:5,24 91:5

92:11 99:7,16 100:21

105:2 106:13 107:17

110:5 114:21 129:9,22

130:3 132:5 134:21

141:20,21,23 142:3,17

143:6 150:1 157:8

161:1 169:1,17 170:2

171:7 172:12 174:9,14

178:15 188:6,11 202:16

205:4,4 206:10 210:2

214:1 216:19 217:4

224:7,22 229:16,16

230:3 231:22 252:11

255:13,21 257:24 258:5

258:19 265:15 267:3,5

270:19 284:10,14 290:9

294:3 304:10 312:16

313:10 314:3,15,23

315:4 317:14 330:12

331:2,4 332:20 334:15

337:8 338:8 339:24

340:7 341:19 343:2

354:3 358:13

yellow 12:2 194:1,9

Yep 182:24

Yesterday 156:13

yet-uncompleted 97:21

yield 275:3

yielding 36:7 42:19

Yodel 265:6

yodels 90:9

York 136:24,24 359:15

young 43:16 92:4 189:23

203:11

youth 88:4

Yvonne 78:9 86:19

Y-V-O-N-N-E 86:19

Z

zero 93:14 302:5

zone 232:12,14

$

$1,100.00 93:2

$1,400.00 326:24

$1,500.00 327:6

$100,000.00 134:20

271:11

$11,300.00 59:14

$118.00 9:15

$150.00 278:11,15

$169 170:9

$2,000.00 29:1 93:24

$2,500.00 327:5

$20,000.00 58:19

$200.00 316:2 328:3

$222,200.00 59:19

$250,000.00 21:10 312:6

$259 170:9

$287.00 9:15

$3,000.00 27:20

$300,000.00 172:11

304:17

$300.00 27:20 171:1

$376,000.00 65:1

$4,000.00 17:12 110:15

171:6 327:7

$500.00 326:23

$550,000.00 65:21

$75,000.00 63:16

$750.00 28:24

$780,000.00 40:23

$877,000.00 65:3

$879.00 328:2

$9,500.00 40:21

$900,000.00 65:22

$912.00 110:14

0

0.5 255:17

0.6 130:2,20

01 65:1

02109 1:18

04 215:6

06 58:9 59:5 215:12,20,22

216:1 217:1

1

1 1:4

1st 236:13

1,000 96:10 268:24

1,100 257:18

1,200 218:4

1,400 265:8 340:8

1,600 86:24

1.3 37:22 199:21 201:19

229:20 231:10 262:23

277:1 324:11 353:10,16

355:6

1.3-gram 218:23 220:9

263:17 290:4

1.3-grams 259:12 263:24

284:23 289:6

1.4 255:10

1.5 198:9 217:1 317:3

318:4 319:17,23

1.95 62:22

10th 300:13 364:12

10,000 45:18

100 1:17 96:23 190:20

215:14 334:1

100,000 172:16

11.5 255:12

110th 72:23

111 261:8

116 31:9

118 335:6

12-foot 286:15

12:30 12:20 192:17

120 216:23

131,000 278:18

133 275:17

134 275:17

14,000 288:13

14,000th 284:20

15 215:12,20,22

15,000 45:19 233:21

15-minute 318:13

150 143:15

16 26:24

17-year 199:3

1700s 338:1

17025 179:16
A80197F

HEARING February 26, 2014

Atkinson-Baker, Inc. 1-800-288-3376

Page 38

182 59:18

1869 109:13

1880s 295:11

1960s 315:15

1970 307:14

1970's 327:16

1975 90:8

1976 248:16 250:18

1978 61:9 326:23

1980 49:22 345:23

1980s 148:4 183:19

1982 330:21

1988 8:14 31:22 34:2

37:20 62:11 67:1 68:12

73:15,23 95:7 100:23

101:10 105:3,9 107:17

122:1 124:20 237:11

261:15 336:13

1989 103:6 114:11 213:24

1995 306:18

2

2 29:13 255:12

2.0 215:18

2.5 69:20 71:11 118:22

119:6 167:4,10 190:3

190:12,18 198:8 229:21

234:20 236:1 241:19

262:22 355:10

2.6-grams 271:17

2:00 12:20,21 193:3

20 26:5

20th 338:2

20,000 110:16

200 101:2 154:8 288:15

2000 184:3

2001 64:15

2003 316:7

2005 143:19 162:8

2006 190:9

2008 143:18,23 190:10

257:20 284:16 300:13

303:19

2009 74:17 311:6 331:19

2010 54:16 184:3 311:11

2011 157:6 209:24 235:21

236:13 284:16 316:2

2012 20:13 21:2 47:16

62:20,20 64:21 236:1

236:14 311:19

2013 20:16 190:6 265:6

281:6 282:4

2014 1:4,19 11:3 190:6

237:23 239:13 364:13

2015 3:8 5:1 11:1 111:2

115:10 312:17

2020 354:5

21 304:10

21,600 235:24

211 347:5

22 177:8

22-percent 258:15

22.5 176:21 177:8

23 284:14

24 173:21 190:4 295:7

24-hour 106:10 135:23

136:3 241:21 242:13

240 167:8

25 73:17 87:12 88:24

107:17 150:23 189:14

214:1 216:19 284:10

290:9 294:3

25,000 21:3

25-foot 286:18

25-percent 145:20

263:16

250,000 137:1 151:7

26 1:19 62:13 66:8 132:5

26th 363:11

26,000 233:19

267 45:24

275-gallon 93:2

28 27:10 209:17 311:20

320:3 359:3

28A 105:14 107:4

28th 47:16

28WHH 58:22

280HH 57:8

286 327:8

3

3D 337:15

3,262 59:14

3.03 62:24

3.2-million 311:10

3.5 29:12

3.5-grams 258:12

3.75 21:14

30th 236:13

31,000 233:20

32 69:20 194:5 214:14

217:5 330:21

34 184:4

345,000 31:24 43:19

35 105:2 190:4

35,000 133:6

35-micrograms 241:22

350,000 319:17,23 321:1

322:5,10

353 356:19

354 356:19

36 71:1

36-year 339:7

360,000 233:21

37 141:19 337:8

39th 323:24

4

4 26:23

4th 58:7

4,800 44:23 201:3

4-gram 326:15

4.5 34:17 70:11 119:5

289:7

4.5-grams 249:8

4:20 318:12

4:35 318:14

40 216:24

400 56:18 127:1,1,19

154:9 311:23

400,000 321:2

41.3 190:18

42 31:8

44 44:12

4400 169:17

45 330:12

450 29:5

470 45:15

48 61:24

5

5 1:16 237:23 239:13

5G3 177:20

5H 177:22

5th 11:2 36:2

5,000 248:18

5:00 135:8

50-million 216:24

53-percent 258:13

55 27:16 150:15

56-gram 326:15

6

6 214:10

6.3 49:21

60,000 282:23

60-gram 326:14

60-grams 325:23

600,000 189:11 322:2

610 63:17

611 41:12

66 127:14

660 36:22

7

7,000 110:18

7.5 70:4 313:12

7:00 12:19 351:22,24

363:10,16

70 150:23

74.3 190:20

75 26:5

75,000 137:2 265:13

750,000 42:9

780,000 236:12

8

8th 112:21

8.5 66:16

8.75 67:5

83 46:19

85 260:20

85-percent 261:1

850 167:1,3

88 122:4 142:9

88-millimeter 106:7

89 101:10

9

9:00 1:19

90 27:16

90-micrograms 243:4

911 50:6

92 71:11

94 71:10 106:9

98 59:5,7 65:13

98-percent 58:9 60:22

99 150:18