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.Ar 513: VIINATIONS OF HADLAI AUSTIN HULL

AND JAMES E. JOHNSON

GOVERNMENT

Storage UMENTS

3231971

THE LIBRAFRY HEARING

KANSAS STATE 

UNIVERSITY BEFORE THE

KSU LIBRARIES 

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

UNITED STATES SENATE

NINETY-SECOND CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

ON

HADLAI AUSTIN HULL, OF MINNESOTA, TO BE AN ASSISTANT

SECRETARY OF THE ARMY (MANPOWER AND

RESERVE AFFAIRS)

JAMES E. JOHNSON, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE AN ASSISTANT

SECRETARY OF THE NAVY (MANPOWER AND

RESERVE AFFAIRS)

MAY 13, 1971

Printed for the use of the Committee on Armed Services

•

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 1971

•
COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

JOHN C. STENNIS,

STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri

HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington

SAM J. ERVIN, JR., North Carolina

HOWARD W. CANNON, Nevada

THOMAS J. McINTYRE, New Hampshire

HARRY F. BYRD, JR., Virginia

HAROLD E. HUGHES, Iowa

LLOYD BENTSEN, Texas

T. EDWARD BRAS WELL, JR., Chief Couneel and Staff Director

JOHN T. TICER, Chief Clerk

Mississippi, Chairman

MARGARET CHASE SMITH, Maine

STROM THURMOND, South Carolina

JOHN G. TOWER, Texas

PETER H. DOMINICK, Colorado

BARRY GOLDWATER, Arizona

RICHARD S. SCHWEIKER, Pennsylvania

WILLIAM B. SAXBE, Ohio
CONTENTS

Statements of— Page

Hadlai, Austin Hull, nominee to be an Assistant Secretary of the

Army 3

Johnson, James E., nominee to be an Assistant Secretary of the Navy_ 6

(m)
N
NOMINATION OF HADLAI AUSTIN HULL, OF MINNESOTA, TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE

ARMY (MANPOWER AND RESERVE AFFAIRS)

NOMINATION OF JAMES E. JOHNSON, OF CALIFORNIA,

TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

(MANPOWER AND RESERVE AFFAIRS); VICE JAMES

D. HITTLE, RESIGNED

THURSDAY, MAY 13, 1971

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,

TV ashing ton, D .0 .

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 212,

Old Senate Office Building.

Present: Senators Symington ( presiding), Stennis, Jackson, Ervin,

McIntyre, Bentsen, Smith, Thurmond, and Saxbe.

Also present: T. Edward Braswell, staff director; John T. Leer,

chief clerk; Labre R. Garcia and Edward B. Kenney, professional

staff members, and Herbert S. Atkinson, assistant chief clerk.

Senator SYMINGTON. The hearing will come to order.

Senator STENNIS. Mr. Chairman, I am very much pleased that Senator Symington is going to preside for us this morning. I regret

greatly that I cannot be here, but the selective service bill on the floor

has me tied up.

I want to make this word by way of announcement of the markup

of the procurement bill, and this is for the benefit of the subcommittee.

Assuming that this bill on the floor will take until the Memorial

Day recess, I want to announce that it is highly necessary that the subcommittees, even though they might not be completely finished, wind

up their hearings and get ready to make a preliminary report, at least

to the full Committee, by the first day of June, which is on Tuesday

after we come back. That will be kind of a roundup meeting of the

full Committee, looking toward the markup, no votes taken or any- thing like that on that day, but we can save time by having that kind

of meeting and I think we will have to move from there then on this

markup.

Senator, this would take care of your problem as far as this markup is concerned.

(1)
r)

Senator SYMINGTON. As Chairman Stennis has told you, he is unavoidably detained this morning and has asked me to preside at this

meeting of the Committee, which I am very glad to do.

The Committee meets today both in open and executive session to

consider nominations to Assistant Secretary of the Army and Assistant

Secretary of the Navy, both for Manpower and Reserve Affairs. In

addition, pending nominations in the military which have been before

the Committee the proper length of time and to which no objections

have been received, will be considered. Also, the Committee will consider in executive session H.R. 7500, a House-passed bill which places

Lt. Gen. Keith B. McCutcheon, U.S. Marine Corps, when retired, on

the retired list in the grade of General.

We will hear first from Mr. Hadlai A. Hull, of Minnesota, who has

been nominated to be Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Manpower

and Reserve Affairs. He is assuming the position previously held by

Mr. William K. Brehm. Mr. Hull's most recent position was senior

vice president and director of the Dayton-Hudson Corp., having been

with that company for over 15 years. I should note that Mr. Hull was

on active duty with the Navy from 1941 to 1945 attaining the grade of

Commander.

We will then hear from Mr. James E. Johnson of California, who

has been nominated to be Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Manpower and Reserve Affairs. He is assuming the position held until

recently by Mr. James D. Hittle. Mr. Johnson's latest position was that

of Commissioner and Vice Chairman of the U.S. Civil Service Commission. Mr. Johnson served on active duty with the Marine Corps

from 1944 to 1965.

The Chair will note for the record that both of the nominees have

been in correspondence with the Committee regarding their financial

statements and the staff has advised that they fully comply with the

so-called conflict-of-interest rule.

After hearing from Mr. Hull and Mr. Johnson the Committee will

move into executive session.

Mr. Hull, we are pleased to have you with us and we will be glad to

receive a brief statement from you now. The Committee is pleased to

have you here today too, Mr. Johnson, and we will hear from you

following Mr. Hull.

(The nomination reference and biographical sketch of Mr. Hull

follows:)

NOMINATION REFERENCE AND REPORT

IN EXECUTIVE SESSION,

SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,

May 6,1971.

Ordered, That the following nomination be referred to the Committee on Armed Services:

Hadlai Austin Hull, of Minnesota to be an Assistant

Secretary of the Army.

HADLAI AUSTIN HULL

Mr. Hull, the Assistant Secretary of the Army (Manpower and Reserve Affairs) designee, was born 30 May 1914 in New London, Conn. He received his

BA degree from Yale University in 1936 and LLB degree from Yale Law School

in 1939.
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From 1955 to 1971, he was with Dayton Hudson Corporation, Minneapolis,

Minnesota, as Chief Financial Officer and Director, and most recently as Senior

Vice President—Finance.

From 1950 to 1955, he was Secretary and Treasurer with the Minnesota and

Ontario Paper Company. From 1946 to 1950, he was Assistant Secretary and Assistant Treasurer.

From 1941 to 1945, he was in the Navy; discharged with rank of Commander.

From 1939 to 1941, he was associated with Sullivan and Cromwell in New

York City.

In 1939, he was admitted to New York State Bar Association.

Civic Activities

Minneapolis Society of Fine Arts, 1964-1966, Chairman of Board of Trustees,

1948— , Trustee.

Blake School, Minneapolis, 1963-1969, Trustee.

Young Women's Christian Association, Minneapolis, 1969— , Trustee.

Northwestern Hospital, Minneapolis, 1948-1955, Chairman, Men's Advisory

Committee, Northwestern Hospital Association.

American Red Cross, Minneapolis Chapter, 1947-1950, Vice Chairman, 1951-

1953, Chairman, Red Cross Blood Program.

United Fund of Minneapolis Area ( Community Chest), 1957, Chairman,

Special Gifts Division, for 1958 Fund, Minneapolis Community Chest.

Three School Committee, 1970, Chairman.

Mr. Hull and his wife, the former Anne Dalrymple, reside at Watergate West,

Washington, D.C. They have three adult sons.

STATEMENT OF HADLAI AUSTIN HULL, OF MINNESOTA, TO BE AN

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY

Mr. HULL. Thank you, sir, very much.

I have only to say that I would like to serve in this position at the

pleasure of the President as long as I am capable of doing a good, hard

job.

Senator SYMINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Hull.

What I have seen of your record, it is a good one.

Senator Smith, have you any questions?

Senator SMITH. I haven't any questions.

Senator SYMINGTON. Senator Thurmond.

Senator THURAIOND. Mr. Chairman, I had a few questions, but since

Mr. Hull has not been connected with the Army and his background is

primarily Navy—isn't it?

Mr. Hum,. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. I think it might be better if I give him a few

questions and let him answer them for the record. That will give you

time.

Mr. Hum,. Certainly, sir; thank you.

Senator SYMINGTON. Senator McIntyre.

Senator MaisrryRE. I want to congratulate Mr. Hull on his nomination. I note that both of these positions this morning concern what

the Joint Chiefs and other leaders in the Defense Department have

said has become the gravest problem we have today, and that is the

problem of manpower.

Mr. Hu-LL. Yes, sir.

Senator MCINTYRE. So that all of the ingenuity and all of the talent

that you have already accumulated in a very outstanding career will

now be put to work in what is considered a very important field.

As Senator Stennis has said, he has gone to the floor where we are

contending with the draft bill and all the bills that it raises today in

the environment that we live in.
4

On my behalf I simply say I wish you the very best of good fortune

as you strive to do a good job for your country.

Mr. HULL. Thank you, sir; I will do my best.

Senator ,SYMINGTON. Good luck to you, thank you.

Mr. Hum,. Thank you, sir.

(The questions of Senator Thurmond and answers subsequently

furnished follow:)

Question. Mr. Hull, what do you see as the chief problems facing the Army

today in the way of manpower and reserve affairs?

Answer. The basic task facing the Army is to maintain an active and reserve

conventional force adequate to keep world stability and maintain the peace in

an era of nuclear parity. Among the specific manpower and reserve problems we

face are:

—Management of redeployments from Southeast Asia and the ensuing reductions in total strength in such a way as to minimize personnel turbulence and

maintain the readiness of the force.

—Extension of induction authority for two more years.

—Reducing reliance on the draft by attracting enlistees to the active and

reserve forces in numbers and quality sufficient to meet our defense commitments.

—Attracting high quality junior officers through incentives such as increasing

the number of ROTC scholarships and raising ROTC subsistence payments.

—Improving the standard of living of servicemen, by providing better barracks

and family housing, reducing the number of menial details which take men away

from training and degrade readiness, and providing adequate pay, particularly

for men in the combat arms.

—Maintaining and raising the standards of discipline, morale and professionalism in the Army, by improving and toughening training and providing good

leadership.

—Keeping readiness of the Army Reserve and National Guard at a high level,

reflecting the increased reliance placed on them as the size of the active Army is

reduced.

—Recruiting talented people for the Army's civilian work force, while attempting to control rising wage costs and work effectively with increasingly active

employee unions.

Question. Do you believe inducements other than those proposed by the

Defense Department to date will be needed to maintain Army Reserve strengths

in the next few years?

Answer. As reliance on the draft is reduced, we can expect increasing difficulty

attracting and retaining personnel for the Army Reserve and National Guard. A

high proportion of current reserve enlistments are draft-induced. The proposed

pay raise for lower enlisted and officer grades should be of some help. Very

likely, however, other incentives will be required. A number of these are under

study, and some are to be proposed to the Congress shortly.

Question. Are you familiar with the expansion now underway in the Army

aviation reserve program such as in helicopter units?

Answer. I am informed that it is planned for approximately one-third of the

Army's airmobile capability to be in the National Guard and Army Reserve.

The plan calls for issue of authorized quantities of aircraft to the Reserve

Components by July 1973. At the termination of the program there will be over

2300 aircraft, mostly helicopters, assigned. Many modern aircraft alreary have

been issued, including OV-1 Mohawk airplanes, UH-1 Huey helicopters, CH-47

Chinook helicopters and CH-54 Skycrane helicopters.

Early in 1970 an intensive aviation recruiting program was established for the

purpose of recruiting experienced, prior active duty aviation personnel into the

Reserve Components. The objective of this program is to increase readiness of

aviation elements while saving the cost of training new pilots and mechanics.

During 1970 over 700 aviators leaving active duty were recruited into National

Guard and Army Reserve units. At this rate it is expected that all aviator positions will be filled prior to the end of 1972.

Aviation unit training should be starting very soon, aiming at attaining fully

combat ready, immediately deployable aviation units in the Reserve Components.
Question. Do you feel the additional space needed by these units can be

found without building new airfields?

Answer. Yes. Availability of existing active and inactive military airfields has

been a primary consideration in locating our aviation units. In instances where

military airfields are not available, we are considering leasing available space

at civilian airfields where the military activities would be compatible with civilian aviation.

(The nomination of Mr. Hull to be an Assistant Secretary of the

Army was subsequently approved by the Committee in executive session and confirmed by the Senate on May 14,1971.)

(The nomination reference and biographical sketch of Mr. Johnson

follows:)

NOMINATION REFERENCE AND REPORT

IN EXECUTIVE SESSION,

SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,

April 29, 1971.

Ordered, That the following nomination be referred to the Committee on Armed Services:

James E. Johnson of California, to be an Assistant

Secretary of the Navy, vice James D. little, resigned.

JAMES E. JOHNSON

Present Address: 2816 Blue Spruce Lane, Wheaton, Maryland 20906.

Born: March 3,1926, Madison, Illinois.

Married: Juanita V. Butler.

Children: Three sons-21,11,4, and one daughter-16.

Education:

Lincoln High, Forrest City, Ark., 1939-43.

DuSaba High, Chicago, Ill., 1943-44, Grad w/G.E.D.

Maryland University, Overseas & U.S. Ext., 1960-62.

Chapman College, Orange, Calif., 1961-68.

Orange Univ. College of Law, Santa Ana, Calif.

Santa Ana College, Santa Ana, Calif., 1962-69, Assoc. of Arts.

George Washington Univ., Washington, D.C., and Extension Courses, 1958-

70, B.S.

Military Service: U.S. Marine Corps, 1944-1965.

Employment:

Jan 1969—Present Commissioner and Vice Chairman, U.S. Civil Service

Commission.

1967-1969—Director, California State Department of Veterans Affairs.

1965-1967—Insurance Executive, Prudential Life Insurance Company,

Anaheim, California.

1944 1965—U.S. Marine Corps. Held positions of Squadron Adjutant, Supply

Fiscal Officer, and Legal Officer. Naval Law School graduating as Legal Counsel;

Personnel Administrators School, Military Administrator in Accounting; Marine

Corps Supply School, Fiscal Supply Officer; Instructor Training School, Military

Instructor; Public Information School, Public Relations Officer for liaison between foreign countries and the United States military bases in the Far East.

Affiliations:

Member, District of Columbia Health and Welfare Council.

Member, Board of Directors, United Givers Fund.

Member, Advisory Board, National Capital Area Council, Boy Scouts of

America.

Member, Board of Directors, Golden Empire Council of Boy Scouts.

Former Member, Board of Directors, Sacramento Safety Council.

Member, Board of Directors, United Christian Centers.

Past President of Orange County Chapter, Childrens Asthma Research Institute and Hospital.
6

Former Director, Youth Leadership Program.

Former Finance Chairman, Planned Parenthood Association.

Area Governor of Toastmasters International.

Member, Board of Governors, Anaheim YMCA.

Senator SYMINGTON. Our next witness will be Mr. James E. Johnson

of California.

Mr. Johnson, have you any statement you would like to give the

Committee?

STATEMENT OF JAMES E. JOHNSON, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE AN

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY, VICE JAMES D. HITTLE,

RESIGNED

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; may I just read this statement, Mr.

Chairman?

Senator SYMINGTON. Yes; please proceed.

Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. Chairman, honorable members of the Committee,

I am grateful for the privilege of appearing ,before you today, and I

am deeply gratified that the President of the United States has nominated me to ,be Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Manpower and

Reserve Affairs.

I classify this appointment as one of the greatest challenges of my

entire life. After spending 21 years in the service of my country and

retiring as a U.S. Marine Corps officer, this appointment as Assistant

Secretary of the Navy for Manpower and Reserve Affairs holds a

special significance to me personally.

I am very much aware of the great responsibilities that one must

assume as Assistant Secretary of the Navy and I will devote my energy

and all of my ability to the fullest extent possible to carry out these

responsibilities.

There are many problems thrust upon us at the present time, and

there are a great many challenges to our country now, more than ever

with the times we are in. A more dynamic and responsive military

service is required to attract and retain the best talent of our Nation.

We must remain flexible though to keep pace with the changing times,

retaining the best of the past, and adopting new ideas in the future.

Continued appraisal of the military services will enable us to be well

equipped to meet the challenges ahead.

I have given much thought to many of the specific problems facing

our military 'services, and I am looking forward to the opportunity of

participating in any solution to those problems.

I personally feel that this appointment for which I am here to be

confirmed today points out the significant opportunity vested in our

American way of life.

I do not agree with those persons who claim that America is a sick

society and that the country is all wrong in its endeavor to bring about

equality and justice for 'all Americans.

I firmly believe that when our country is wrong, we, as Americans,

should strive to make it right. When it is right, we should keep it

right. But, right or wrong, America is still my country.

Mr. Chairman, members of the Committee, thank you very much for

giving me the opportunity to read my statement.
7

Senator SYMINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Johnson.

As I understand it, you served 21 years in the Marine Corps; is that

correct?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. Your latest position has been Vice Chairman

of the U.S. Civil Service Commission?

Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. I must say, people have written and called me

about you, all very favorable.

Senator Smith.

Senator SMITH. I haven't any questions.

Senator SYMINGTON. Senator McIntyre.

Senator MCINTYRE. I am happy to see Mr. Johnson here, and like

Mr. Hull, I congratulate you on this nomination by the President.

As the Chairman has said, we have received some very high commendations from people who have known you well over your life

span and they recommend you highly.

What do you get, the Army or the Navy?

Mr. JOHNSON. The Navy, sir.

Senator McINTrRE. Your job is a little easier than Mr. Hull. But

to you, sir, the very best of good luck in the job.

Mr. JOHNSON. Thank you.

Senator MCINTYRE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator SYMINGTON. Senator Thurmond.

Setnator THURMOND. Thank you, Mr Chairman.

Mr. Johnson, I am pleased that you have been nominated to this

important position. My respect and admiration for you stems from our

association during your tenure as Vice Chairman of the Civil Service

Commission. You have rendered our Nation a significant service in

that position, and I am sure you will do likewise as Assistant Secretary of the Navy. As I have already indicated, you have my full support for this appointment.

Mr. Johnson, upon assuming office you will find the Navy Reserve

strength levels below that mandated by the Congress. As you have

perhaps been informed, I have given this drop in Reserve strength,

li

particularly in the Naval Air Reserve, my close attention. My findInas indicate the five base closures and the recent reorganization of

the Naval Air Reserve created substantial turbulence in the program.

In many cases Air Reserve units have been moved out of populated

areas to less populated sites where manning levels, even with the reduced size of the hardware units, may not be attainable. The Navy

will not save money or increase readiness when units are moved to

areas where personnel are not available. At present, serious enlisted

strength shortages exist in recently relocated units in the States of

Tennessee California and Washington. In moving these units to

these less populated sites, the Navy failed to certify to the Department

of Defense that sufficient population existed in the new areas to support these moves. The Navy has also failed to ask this Committee for

permission to change the mission of the Los Alamitos Air Station

from a Reserve station to a Navy support mission. Reserves are people who are able to give only a portion of their time to the military.

Their units cannot be shifted about like regular units. The Navy has

found that out in this reorganization.
8

Today it is more critical than ever to keep Reserve units in populated areas. If the Navy cannot get adequate enlisted members for

Reserve units at these new sites today, how in the world can they

recruit them tomorrow in a. zero draft or volunteer armed forces environment? When the time comes, and it might come sooner than we

think, then the Navy will regret having closed stations like Los

Alamitos in California and Olathe in Kansas.

Mr. Johnson, I would also like to mention that the readiness of

the Naval Air Reserve is rising because the squadrons are finally

getting support in the way of equipment and supplies. The Navy is

to be commended for the tremendous support it is giving to the reorganized Naval Air Reserve. This step-up in support stems in part

from our drawdown in Vietnam. Planes and equipment are being returned to the United States, and where at the beginning of the war

Reserve units were being cannibalized, these units are now being restocked. As this Nation decreases its regular forces, greater reliance

will fall upon our Reserve units. They must be fully supported and

expanded where necessary.

Mr. Johnson, as you travel about the country looking at the Reserve program, you will find that the men in the new hardware squadrons of the Naval Air Reserve are happy with the change. Those who

had been relegated to a classroom status or whose units have been disbanded, are, of course, less pleased with the recent changes.

As you probably know, investigations by this Committee disclosed

that the situation concerning Los Alamitos Air Station in California

was particularly disturbing. As a result, Admiral Zumwalt directed

the Inspector General of the Navy to study this problem. The report

and decision by Admiral Zumwalt should be forthcoming in the next

few weeks.

As we drawdown in Vietnam, some Reserve programs are expanding. Presently, the Army is looking for sites to locate various helicopter units. The Commanding General of the 6th Army has asked to

locate one at Los Alamitos. The Army National Guard, the Air Force

Reserve, and the Air National Guard also wish to locate units in

Los Alamitos if the Navy gives it up. Another Army helicopter unit

hopes to locate at the abandoned Olathe Naval Air Station.

Mr. Johnson, before closing my comments on the Naval Air Reserve

matter, I would like to point out that some of the services, such as the

Army, are expanding their flying programs. General Peers testified

before this Committee last month that at the end of fiscal year 1970

Army Reserve components had 933 aircraft, but by this June some

1,500 aircraft would be on hand. General Peers forecast a total of

2,500 aircraft in Army Reserve components by the end of fiscal year

1973. So, I would think that the Army will want some of the Reserve

stations the Navy is giving up. It is required that any facilities in Reserve use must be offered to other Reserve forces prior to excessing.

Frankly, I doubt the Naval Air Reserve could expand its program

at many of the new sites. When people resources are inadequate to

man present units, then expansion is out of the question.

One matter I hope you will give your close attention to is the question of what inducements might be necessary to help this Nation keep

sufficient numbers of men in the Reserve. I have proposed a Reserve

Study Commission for this purpose, but, of course, the views of the

service leaders are needed.
9

Mr. Johnson, knowing you as well as I do, I felt it would be worth the time I have taken this morning to express some of my views about the Navy Reserve program. It is vital to this country. This matter deserves your careful attention and that of this Committee. I know

you will give these matters your study, and that your decisions will be fair and objective. Again, let me say it is a particular pleasure to sup- port you for appointment as Assistant Secretary of the Navy.

Mr. JoHNsoN. Thank you, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator SYMINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. We appreciate your coming up this morning.

The Committee will now go into executive session.

(Whereupon, at 10:20 a.m. the Committee proceeded to other business.)

(The nomination of Mr. Johnson to be an Assistant Secretary of the Navy was subsequently approved by the Senate in executive ses- sion and confirmed by the Senate on May 14, 1911)

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