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F Col NOMINATIONS

LAA, FUBINI, McDONALD, PRATT)

HEARINGS

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

UNITED STATES SENATE

EIGHTY-EIGHTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

ON

ALEXANDER HENRY FLAX, NOMINATED TO BE AN ASSISTANT

SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE

EUGENE G. FUBINI, NOMINATED TO BE AN ASSISTANT

SECRETARY OF DEFENSE

ADM. DAVID LAMAR McDONALD, USN, NOMINATED TO BE

CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS IN THE DEPARTMENT

OF THE NAVY

EDMUND T. PRATT, JR., NOMINATED TO BE AN ASSISTANT

SECRETARY OF THE ARMY

MARCH 14 AND JUNE 27, 1963

Printed for the use of the Committee on Armed Services

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11S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

24-632 WASHINGTON : 1963
JOHN STENNIS, Mississippi

HARRY FLOOD BYRD, Virginia

STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri

HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington

SAM J, ERVIN, JR., North Carolina

STROM THURMOND, South Carolina

CLAIR ENGLE, California

HOWARD W. CANNON, Nevada

ROBERT C. BYRD, West Virginia

STEPHEN M. YOUNG, Ohio

DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii

HARRY L. WINGATE, Jr., Chief Clerk

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

RICHARD B. RUSSELL, Georgia, Chairman

LEVEttETT SALTONSTALL, Massachusetts

MARGARET CHASE SMITH, Maine

J. GLENN BEALL. Maryland

BARRY GOLDWATER, Arizona

CLIFFORD P. CASE, New Jersey
CONTENTS

Statements of—

Brown, Dr. Harold E., Director of Research and Development, De- Page partment of Defense - 15 Flax, Alexander Henry, nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of the Air Force 25 Fubini, Eugene G., nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of Defense_ 14 Korth, Hon. Fred, Secretary of the Navy 8

McDonald, Adm. David L., nominated to be Chief of Naval Opera- tions 8

Pratt, Edmund T., Jr., nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of the Army 2

NOMINATIONS

NOMINATION OF EDMUND T. PRATT, JR., TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY, VICE WILLIAM F.

SCHAUB

THURSDAY, MARCH 14, 1963

U.S. SENATE,

• COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,

W a$king ton, D .0 .

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 212,

Old Senate Office Building.

Present: Senators Russell (presiding), Stennis, Symington, Jackson, Thurmond, Engle, Cannon, Byrd of West Virginia, Young

of Ohio, Saltonstall, and Case.

Also present: William H. Darden, professional staff member,

and Harry L. Wingate, Jr., chief clerk.

Chairman RUSSELL. The committee has before it this morning

the nomination of Mr. Edmund T. Pratt, Jr., of New York, to

be an Assistant Secretary of the Army, vice William F. Schaub,

as the first item of business for the committee this morning.

In accordance with our precedent, Mr. Pratt is making a personal

appearance.

Will you be seated, Mr. Pratt, down at the end of the table.

We are glad to have you before our committee and we extend

to you congratulations on the expression of confidence that is

evidenced by your nomination.

It is customary to give the committee a brief oral summary of

your biography and it may be that some of the members of the

committee will have a question or two for you.

(The nomination reference and biographical sketch of Mr.

Pratt follow:)

NOMINATION REFERENCE AND REPORT

IN EXECUTIVE SESSION,

SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,

January 15, 1963.

Ordered, That the following nomination be referred to the Committee

on Armed Services:

Edmund T. Pratt, Junior, of New York, to be Assistant Secretary of the

Army, vice William F. Schaub.

EDMUND T. PRATT, JR.

Born February 22, 1927, in Savannah, Ga., Mr.. Pratt was graduated magna

cum laude from Duke University in 1947 with a B.S. degree in electrical engineering. In September of that year, he entered the Wharton School of

Finance and Commerce of the University of Pennsylvania at Philadelphia, and

received his M.B.A. degree in June 1949. During his school career, Mr. Pratt

1
2 NOMINATIONS

was active in many extracurricular activities and achieved membership in

numerous honorary societies, including Phi Beta Kappa, Tau Beta Pi, Omicron

Delta Kappa, and Beta Gamma Sigma.

A U.S. Navy veteran, Mr.. Pratt served in the Navy from July 1944 to June

1946. During this period, he attended Duke University at Durham, N.C.,

under the Navy's V-12 program. He was appointed as ensign in the U.S. Naval

Reserve in June 1947. In 1952, while in the position of senior sales representative with the IBM Corp., he was granted a leave of absence for more military

service. He entered on active duty with the U.S.. Navy in May of that year

with the rank of lieutenant, junior grade, and served until May 1954. He

holds the rank of lieutenant in the U.S. Naval Reserve at the present time.

Upon returning from military service, he resumed his career with IBM

as a sales representative and, in 1956, was promoted to administrative assistant to the executive vice president in their New York headquarters. He

was appointed director of the budget of the IBM World Trade Corp., New

York City, in 1957, and in 1958 was elected to the position of controller by

the company's board of directors. In these latter positions he was concerned

with financial management and control of IBM's business in more than 90

countries abroad.

Mr. Pratt is married to the former Jeanette Louise Carneale of Philadelphia,

Pa. Mr. and Mrs. Pratt and their two boys, Randolf and Keith, reside at 9

White Oaks Drive, Alexandria, Va.

JANUARY 14, 1963.

FINANCIAL STATEMENT OF EDMUND T. PRATT, JR.

I certify that when I was selected by the President to be nominated for

Assistant Secretary of the Army (Financial Management), I divested myself of

all stocks in commercial firms. My present assets consist of personal property

and a home at my former residence in New York. I do not hold any stock or

other type of equity in any commercial firm or in any type of enterprise which

may be doing business with the Government.

EDMUND T. PRATT, Jr.

STATEMENT OF EDMUND T. PRATT, JR., NOMINEE TO BE AN

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE ARMY, VICE WILLIAM F.

SCHAUB

Mr. PRATT. Mr. Chairman, I was born in Savannah, Ga., and

went through high school at Elkton, Md. After completing high

school I joined the Navy in the V-12 program and went to officer

training and college at Duke University, graduating in 1947 in

electrical engineering.

At that time I went to the Wharton School of the University

of Pennsylvania and graduated in 1949 with a master of business

administration and then joined the IBM Corp. in a sales capacity.

I was with IBM for the next 3 years in various capacities, located

in a number of places around the country, was recalled to the Navy in

the spring of 1952. Spent 2 years as a naval officer and in 1954

I returned to IBM Corp., again in a sales capacity, in Philadelphia.

In the spring of 1956, I went to IBM's headquarters in New

York as assistant to the controller of IBM. Later that year I

was made assistant to the executive vice president. In 1957 I was

named director of budgets of IBM World Trade Corp., which is

the subsidiary that handles all of IBM's business in approximately

90 countries outside of the United States.

In 1958 I was elected to the position of controller of IBM

World Trade Corp., which position I held until coming to Washington.
NOMINATIONS

As a matter of interest; the IBM World Corp., as of the end of

the past

i

year, had approximately 45,000 employees, and was a business n excess of $600 million.

Chairman RUSSELL. I notice you have a statement attached to

your biography that says you do not hold any stock or have any

other type of equity in any commercial firm or in any type of

enterprise which may be doing business with the U.S. Government.

Mr. PRATT. That is true. I disposed of all my stock before coming

to Washington.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Saltonstall.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman, but

I notice in the very first line this gentleman was born in Georgia

so I think he must halT been a very fine citizen.

Chairman RUSSELL. His parents must have taken him from there

when he was very young.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Pratt, you didn't go to Harvard, did

you or any of the ivy colleges?

Mr. PRATT. No as a matter of fact, I didn't.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Then I think the chairman will support

you. [Laughter.]

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Stennis.

Senator STENNIS. I don't believe I have any questions, Mr.

Chairman. This is a very attractive record that Mr. Pratt has made.

He seems to have a very practical background and experience in

a very important position.

Mr. PRATT. Thank you.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Symington?

Senator SYMINGTON. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Jackson?

Senator JACKSON. Mr. Chairman, I have heard about Mr. Pratt,

and everything I have heard is very fine. I assume your previous

connection with a very fine company will not cause you any embarassment or difficulty—that is, with IBM—in connection with your duties

as Assistant Secretary?

Mr. PRATT. I don't anticipate that it would, Senator.

Senator JACKSON. And you will be fair to the Government and

fair to those you previously served as well?

Mr. PRATT. Absolutely.

Senator JACKSON. And will not in any manner allow that previous association to interfere with the discharge of your duties?

Mr. PRATT. I will not.

Senator JACKSON. Have you severed all connections—

Mr. PRATT. Absolutely.

Senator JACKSON (continuing). With the company, and have no

interest, stockwise ?

Mr. PRATT. None at all.

Senator JACKSON. Very good. I have the highest regard for your

former boss, Mr. Watson, and his associates.

Mr. PRATT. Thank you.

Senator JACKSON. They have a great interest in public service,

and I know you will carry on in that tradition.

Mr. PRATT. Thank you very much.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Cannon?
4 NOMINATIONS

Senator CANNON. Do you have any agreement with the company whereby you can go back with them?

Mr. PRATT. No agreement whatsoever, Senator.

Senator CANNON. No option; no stock options?

Mr. PRATT. No, none at ; complete severance.

Senator CANNON. Who previously held this position?

Mr. PRATT. William Schaub.

Senator CANNON. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Mr. Pratt, we all extend our best wishes for

a successful tenure in this position. We are glad to have had

you here, sir.

Mr. PRATT. Thank you very much.

Chairman RUSSELL. The committee will now go into executive

session.

(Whereupon, at 10:35 a.m., the committee went into executive

• session.)

(The nomination of Mr. Pratt to be an Assistant Secretary of

the Army was subsequently approved by the committee in executive

session and confirmed by the Senate on March 15, 1963.)
NOMINATIONS

NOMINATION OF ADM. DAVID LAMAR McDONALD, U.S.

NAVY, TO BE CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS, DEPARTMENT OF THE NAVY

THURSDAY, JUNE 27, 1963

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,

Washington, D .0 .

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m., in room 212,

Old Senate Office Building.

Present: Senators Russell (chairman) , Stennis, Symington, Thurmond, Engle, Cannon, Young, Inouye, Saltonstall, Smith, and

Goldwater.

Also present: Harry L. Wingate, Jr., chief clerk William H.

Darden, Edward Braswell, and Gordon Nease of the committee staff

and Herbert S. Atkinson, assistant chief clerk.

Chairman RUSSELL. The nomination of Adm. David Lamar McDonald to be Chief of Navy Operations for a term of 2 years is the

first subject for the committee to consider this morning.

(The nomination reference and the biographical sketch and service record of Admiral McDonald follow:)

NOMINATION REFERENCE AND REPORT

IN EXECUTIVE SESSION,

SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,

May 6, 1963.

Ordered, That the following nomination be referred to the Committee on

Armed Services:

Admiral David Lamar McDonald, United States Navy, to be appointed as

Chief of Naval Operations in the Department of the Navy for a term of two

years.

ADM. DAVID LAMAR MCDONALD, U.S. NAVY

A native of Maysville, Ga., Admiral McDonald was appointed to the Naval

Academy from that State in 1924. ge was graduated and commissioned ensign

on June 7, 1928, designated naval aviator in 1931, and attained the rank of

admiral to date from April 1, 1963.

During his midshipman days, Admiral McDonald won the Battalion Commander Medal as outstanding rifleman in the class of 1928, the cup awarded for

excellence in practical and theoretical ordnance and the Daughters of the

American Revolution sword for excellence in practical and theoretical seamanship.

His early service included sea duty in the battleships Mississippi and Colorado, in Fighting Squadron 6 of the aircraft carrier Saratoga, and the aviation

unit in the cruiser Detroit; and shore duty with the Navy rifle team at

national matches, and as instructor at the Naval Air Station, Pensacola, Fla.

From June 1938 to October 1941 he served with Aviation Patrol Squadron 42,

based at Seattle, Wash., and later in Alaska and the Aleutian Islands.

5

24-632-63 2
6 NOMINATIONS

At the outbreak of World War II, he was serving as flag secretary to

commander, aircraft, Atlantic Fleet, and from May 1942 to March 1944 served

as flight training officer on the staff of commander, Naval Air Operational

Training Command, Jacksonville, Fla. During the latter period of hostilities

he served as air officer and executive officer of the aircraft carrier Esseo and as

operations officer on the staff of commander, Air Force, Pacific Fleet. He was

awarded the Bronze Star Medal with Combat V, two letters of commendation

with ribbon and star, and is entitled to wear the ribbon for the Presidential

unit citation awarded the U.S.S. Esseo.

In July 1947 he reported to the Bureau of Aeronautics, Navy Department,

to serve as Director of Military Requirements, and later served as aide to

the Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Air and to the Under Secretary of the

Navy. He commanded the aircraft carrier Mindoro for a year in 1951-52, and

after a tour of duty as assistant chief of staff for operations to the commander

in chief, Pacific Fleet, served a year as commanding officer of the aircraft

carrier Coral Sea.

In November. 1955 he was assigned as Director of the Air Warfare Division,

Office of the Chief of Naval Operations, and from November 1957 until October

1960 was assigned as deputy assistant chief of staff at Supreme Headquarters,

Allied Powers, Europe. He was next commander, Carrier Division 6 and in

July 1961 reported as commander, 6th Fleet, and commander, Naval Striking

and Support Forces, Southern Europe.

On May 6, 1963, President Kennedy designated Admiral McDonald to relieve

Adm. George W. Anderson as Chief of Naval Operations, effective August 1,

1963. Admiral McDonald is currently serving as commander in chief, U.S.

Naval Forces, Europe, and, reporting directly to the Joint Chiefs of Staff as a

specified commander, he is the commander in chief, U.S. Naval Forces, Eastern

Atlantic and Mediterranean. His headquarters are on Grosvenor Square in

London.

Personal data: Born, Maysville, Ga., September 12, 1906.

Parents: Mrs. W. B. (Mary David) McDonald and the late ReV. W. B.

McDonald.

Wife: Catherine Thompson of Rochester, N.Y.

Children: Mrs. R. L. (Mary Louise) Spears; Thomas H. McDonald.

Address (official) : Hollywood, Fla.

Education: High schools in Maysville and Commerce, Ga. ; Riverside

Military Academy; U.S. Naval Academy (B.S., 1928) ; National War College (1950-51).

Hobbies: Golf, hiking, swimming, hunting, fishing, dancing, and bridge.

Promotions: Commissioned ensign, June 7, 1928; lieutenant (junior grade),

June 7, 1931; lieutenant, July 1, 1936; Lieutenant commander, January 1,

1942; commander, September 15, 1942; captain, March 25, 1945; rear admiral,

January 1, 1956; vice admiral, July 28, 1961 admiral, April 1, 1963.

Decorations and medals: Bronze Star Medal, Combat V; Commendation

ribbon, bronze star and Combat V; Presidential unit citation ribbon, U.S.S.

_Osseo; American Defense Service Medal, bronze A; American Campaign Medal;

Asiatic-Pacific Campaign Medal, one silver star and one bronze star; World

War II Victory Medal; National Defense Service Medal; Philippine liberation

ribbon, two years; Philippine Republic Presidential unit citation badge.

Citations: Bronze Star Medal: "For meritorious achievement as officer

in charge of the Combat Information Center of the U.S.S. Essew, the flagship of the task group commander, during operations against enemy Japanese

Fleet units in the Battle of Leyte Gulf, October 24, 1944. Utilizing his

knowledge of the capabilities of our carriers and their aircraft, Commander

McDonald was instrumental in evaluating and disseminating combat information which contributed to the delivery of a decisive defeat to the enemy

Letter of commendation (Secnay) : "For outstanding performance of

duty * * * Experienced in aviation matters and thoroughly conversant with

training procedures and requirements (he) assisted materially in creating

the Naval Air Operational Training Command * * * (and) was responsible

for providing the fleet with skilled pilots and efficient crewmen whose performance in combat operations against the enemy proved the success of the instruction program * * *"

Letter of commendation (Cincpac) : "For outstanding service * * * as execu- tive officer of a large carrier during the several months preceding an enemy
NOMINATIONS 7

air attack on this carrier in the vicinity of Luzon, Philippine Islands, oil

November 25, 1944. His efforts in connection with the minute organizational

details, training of the personnel, and the upkeep of the ship's material

were so effectual when his ship was damaged by the enemy * * * that

normal operations were suspended for only 30 minutes. His previous

distinguished devotion to duty was unquestionably responsible for the lessening of the material damage, the low number of fatalities and the expeditious

return of the ship to an acceptable combatant condition * * *"

Presidential unit citation (U.S.S. Essex) : "For extraordinary heroism in

action against enemy Japanese forces in the air, ashore and afloat in the

Pacific war area from August 31, 1943, to August 15, 1945, * * *. Daring

and dependable in combat, the Essex and her gallant officers and men rendered loyal service in achieving the ultimate defeat of the Japanese Empire."

Chronological transcript of service:

June 1928 _to March 1930: U.S.S. Mississippi (junior officer).

March 1930 to October 1930: U.S.S. Colorado.

November 1930 to November 1931: Naval Air Station, Pensacola, Fla. (flight

training) .

November 1931 to June 1934: Fighting Squadron 6 (pilot).

June 1934 to June 1935: U.S.S. Detroit (aviation unit).

June 1935 to June 1938 : Naval Air Station, Pensacola (flight instructor).

July 1938 to October 1941: Patrol Squadron 42 (pilot).

October 1941 to May 1942: Staff, commander, aircraft, Atlantic Fleet (flag

secretary).

May 1942 to March 1944: Staff, commander, Naval Air Operational Training

Command (flight training officer).

April 1944 to June 1945: U.S.S. Essex (air officer; executive officer).

June 1945 to June 1947: Staff, commander, Air Force, Pacific (operations officer) .

June 1947 to August 1950: Navy Department (Director, Military Requirements;

aide, Assistant Secretary of Navy for Air; aide, Under Secretary of Navy).

August 1950 to June 1951: National War College, Washington, D.C. (student).

August 1951 to June 1952: U.S.S. Mindoro (commanding officer).

July 1952 to July 1954: Staff, commander in chief, Pacific Fleet (assistant

chief of staff for operations).

July 1954 to November 1955: U.S.S. Coral Sea (commanding officer).

November 1955 to October 1957: Office of Chief of Naval Operations, Navy Department ( director, air warfare).

November 1957 to October 1960: Staff, Supreme Headquarters, Allied Powers,

Europe (deputy to assistant chief of staff).

October 1960 to July 1961: Commander, Carrier Division 6.

July 1961 to March 1963: Commander, 6th Fleet, and commander, Naval Striking

and Support Forces, Southern Europe.

April 1963: Commander in chief, U.S. Naval Forces, Europe; and, reporting

directly to the Joint Chiefs of Staff as a specified commander, designated

commander in chief, U.S. Naval Forces, Eastern Atlantic and Mediterranean.

Chairman RUSSELL. Since Admiral McDonald has not previously

appeared before the committee as a nominee for a statutory office, we

have asked him to be present this morning. The admiral is accompanied by Secretary of the Navy Korth. The Chair has been privileged to know Admiral McDonald and his family personally for a

number of years, and I have the highest personal regard for him..

For myself and for the committee, Admiral, I extend a cordial welcome, and we congratulate you for having been chosen to fill this extraordinarily important office in this time.

Secretary Korth, do you desire to say anything?
8 NOMINATIONS

STATEMENT OF ADM. DAVID LAMAR McDONALD, NOMINEE, TO BE

CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS, U.S. NAVY, DEPARTMENT OF THE

NAVY; ACCOMPANIED BY FRED KORTH, SECRETARY OF THE

NAVY

Secretary KORTH. Yes, sir, if I may.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, it is a pleasure and

a privilege for me to accompany and to present to the committee the

nominee, the President's nominee for Chief of Naval Operations.

Admiral McDonald began his naval career at the U.S. Naval

Academy in 1924, and graduated in 1928. He served on the battleships Mississippi and Colorado and has a broad background in naval

aviation, with duty in fighter squadrons as a flight instructor, and

with patrol squadrons. His combat experience was obtained during

staff duty with the commander, aircraft, Atlantic Fleet, and as air

officer and executive officer of the U.S.S. Essex.

In the battle of Leyte Gulf in 1944, his meritorious achievement

contributed to the decisive defeat of the enemy and he was awarded

the Bronze Star Medal. Additional letters of commendation and the

Presidential citation were earned for duty aboard the Essex.

Actually, Admiral McDonald had, as he mentioned a little bit

earlier to me this morning, in his first 31 years of service with the

Navy, never been to Europe, and, in his last 51/2 years, has spent

practically all of that time in Europe. He served at SHAPE Headquarters. He was commander of the 6th Fleet immediately prior to

his present assignment, which he has just relinquished as the commander, U.S. Naval Force, Europe.

He has had a number of operational commands at sea. He has had

Joint Staff duty here in Washington at the Pentagon, has a thorough

understanding of the problems which are associated with the working

of all of the service, both national and international.

I should like to point out also, as the committee well knows, that a

major portion of the duties will be as a member of the Joint Chiefs.

It is indeed a pleasure for me to accompany and to present to the

committee this distinguished naval officer, Adm. David L. McDonald.

Chairman RUSSELL. Thank you.

What is your concept, Mr. Secretary, of the duty and responsibility

of Admiral McDonald, under his oath of office, in answering questions that may be propounded to him with respect to defense

of the United States, or our international relations, by Members of

the Congress?

Mr. KORTH. He should have no inhibitions whatsoever in answering

fully, frankly, and completely, the questions which are asked by the

Members of Congress to him.

Chairman RUSSELL. And you expect him to pursue that policy?

Mr. KORTH. I most assuredly do, Mr. Chairman.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, I just join with you in congratulating Admiral McDonald on his new position, and certainly

I look forward to working with him.

Admiral, when the chairman of our committee set the stage for you,

as he did in his opening remarks, I think we will have great difficultyin not confirming you to the position.

Chairman RUSSELL. I thank the Senator.
NOMINATIONS 9

Of course, Admiral McDonald didn't attend Harvard, but he did

attend Mayesville, Ga., High School. He is excellently equipped for

this position.

Senator SALTONSTALL. If the chairman will yield, I particularly

doubt that remark. The chairman generally says that he is all

right, except that he went to Harvard. Now, I didn't say anything

about his being born in Georgia, or going to Georgia schools. I particularly left that out.

Senator GOLDWATER. Mr. Chairman, that is the most convincing

remark you have made today.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Stennis, do you have any questions

of Secretary Korth?

Senator STENNIS. No; I just want to say this: I certainly have

been impressed with the admiral's record and the word that has come

here ahead of him, about his capacity and his outstanding achievements.

I believe in his exercising his full powers and prerogatives as a

member of the Joint Chiefs, and I am sure you expect to do that,

Admiral; is that correct?

Admiral MCDONALD. That is correct.

Senator STENNIS. At the same time, I am sure you heartily believe,

in our form of government, that the civilian authority ultimately is

supreme.

Admiral MCDONALD. No question about that.

Senator STENNIS. You subscribe to that. I think that is one

thing that makes the military have such confidence of the people;

that you gentlemen seem thoroughly to believe that. It seems to

be indoctrinated in your training. They teach that at the Academy,

too do they not?

Admiral MCDONALD. Yes, sir.

Senator STENNIS. I mention this, Mr. Chairman, because I heard

in a radio report yesterday something about their having a new

dean over at the Naval Academy, and that academic matters were

thought to be lagging. 

Ijudge that was an erroneous report altogether.

Secretary KORTH. Sir, may I speak to that?

Senator STENNIS. Yes. I was going to say I have been pointing

out the Naval Academy as being tops along that line. I bring it up

to give you a chance to refute it, Mr. Secretary.

I heard that on the radio last night.

Secretary KORTH. I am not prepared to refute it other than to

clarify it.

Senator STENNIS. I mean, refute this report.

Secretary KORTH. There has been a civilian academic dean appointed on an interim basis or a temporary basis who was formerly associated with the Department of Engineering of Marquette University. This is in complete accord with Admiral

Kirkpatrick's views on the matter. He personally interviewed

some 70 individuals throughout the country.

The purpose of the selection of this individual or an individual

to be the academic dean of the Naval Academy was in order to

accomplish further the implementation of raising the caliber and quality of instruction at the Naval Academy.
10 NOMINATIONS

I don't 'know whether this puts it in proper perspective to you

or not.

Senator STENNIS. I wasn't suggesting it was not a good choice.

I am sure it was a good choice. I like the idea of bringing in

those from that profession. But my point was, the radio reported

that they were lagging in their academic requirements at the

Naval Academy.

Secretary. KORTH. No, sir. I deny that.

Senator STENNIS. You deny that fully?

Secretary KORTH. I deny that categorically. We have a very excellent Naval Academy. We have an excellent curriculum there.

We strive as we should, I think, to improve the curriculum, and this

is one of the purposes.

Senator STENNIS. I am glad to give you an opportunity to speak

on that.

Chairman RUSSELL. It is all right to ask questions of Admiral

McDonald but at the present time Secretary Korth is the witness.

Senator Smith.

Senator SMITH. Mr. Chairman, I would like to join with you and

Senator Saltonstall in expressing my appreciation of the distinguished record of Admiral McDonald, and I have no questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Thurmond.

Senator THURMOND. Mr. Chairman, I would like to join with the

others in praising Admiral McDonald from what I have heard about

his record. I haven't had an opportunity to know him personally.

I would like to ask him this question. The question has been raised

about civilian authority over the military as being supreme. Of

course, that is accepted. I don't think any military man in this

country has ever raised the point otherwise. But I want to know this.

Are you, as a military man,- willing to stand up for your opinions

and your decisions and not be battered down by any civilian in the

Defense Department?

Admiral MCDONALD. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. I have no more questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Inouye.

. Senator INOUYE. Mr. Chairman, I wish to join you and my colleagues in congratulating the admiral on his nomination. I am certain, although he spent his last 6 years in the Atlantic, he will also

have his eyes focused in the Pacific where I come from. I have no

further questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Goldwater.

Senator GOLDWATER. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman. I merely

want to congratulate this administration for having selected the

admiral. You are being called on to. fill some mighty big shoes. Admiral Anderson, in my estimation, is one of the -best chiefs we have

ever had, and I know that you have the qualifications and you will

stand up as he has stood up for the Navy and the service. That is

all I have.

Chairman RUSSELL. After this nomination was announced, I directed a letter to the Secretary of Defense, Mr. McNamara requesting

a statement as to the extent to which a member of the ioint Chiefs

of Staff in congressional testimony could express disagreement with

decisions affecting the Department of Defense without incurring the

unacceptable displeasure of his civilian superiors.
NOMINATIONS 11

I ask that that letter and the letter from the Secretary of Defense

in reply thereto, be printed in the record at this point.

(The letters referred to follow:)

Hon. ROBERT S. MCNAMARA,

Secretary of Defense,

Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. SECRETARY: Before scheduling a hearing on the nomination of Adm.

David L. McDonald to the Chief of Naval Operations, I think it would be

helpful to have a statement from you on the extent to which a member of the

Joint Chiefs of Staff in congressional testimony can express disagreement with

the decisions affecting the Department of Defense without incurring the unacceptable displeasure of his superiors in the executive branch.

I am familiar, of course, with the provision of law that permits a member

of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to present to Congress any recommendation relating to the Department of Defense that he may deem proper. I also remember

your testimony at the hearing on your nomination that the appropriate committees of Congress are entitled to full and frank statements from commissioned officers of the Armed Forces..

Since there have been some recent expressions of concern about the ability

of the Congress to secure the information it needs for legislating if officers

cannot testify candidly in opposition to official decisions without risking their

standing with superior authority, I would appreciate having a restatement of

your views that could be made public on this subject.

With assurances of esteem, I am,

Sincerely,

RICHARD B. RUSSELL.

MAY 29, 1963.

THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE,

Washington, June 11, 1963.

Hon. RICHARD B. RUSSELL,

U.S. Senate.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: I have your letter of May 29, 1963, concerning congressional testimony by members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

Let me assure you that my position in this regard remains as it was when I

first appeared before you more than 2 years ago. Congress is entitled to the

full and frank views of the Chiefs and all other military and civilian personnel of the Department..

The method by which this objective is accomplished is, I believe, spelled out

in existing law and policy. First, under the National Security Act, the Secretaries of the military departments and the members of the Joint Chiefs of

Staff are entitled to present to the Congress on their own initiative any recommendations relating to the Department of Defense that they may deem proper

provided they first so inform the Secretary of Defense. I, of course, support

the policy expressed in this statutory provision. I also support the longstanding policy of the Department that, except as provided in the National Security

Act, military and civilian personnel of the Department should not volunteer

pronouncements at variance with established policy. On the other hand, when

queried by appropriate agencies of Congress, they certainly should express their

opinion on matters within their areas of competence even if this opinion is in

disagreement with established policy.

I believe these standards provide a proper accommodation of the need for

effective management of the Department and the desire of Congress to be informed of differing viewpoints which may exist within the Department. Further, I believe that officials of this Department, military and civilian, have in

general adhered to these standards. During my term as Secretary of Defense

no adverse action whatever has been taken against any official for so acting

and, as long as I am Secretary of Defense, none will be.

Sincerely,

ROBERT S. MCNAMARA.

Chairman RUSSELL. Admiral, the Secretary has outlined your

service to the committee in his statement. We will be glad to

have you make a statement covering anything in your background and

career that you think would be of interest to the committee.
12 NOMINATIONS

Admiral MCDONALD. Mr. Chairman. I really have no comment

except the conversation between you and the Senator from Massachusetts. I might add that while in training with the Navy rifle

team, I spent three summers in Wakefield, Mass. as for the comment

which was made by the Senator from Hawaii, I might point out

that I am leaving at noon today, flying to Japan, Okinawa, Formosa,

the Philippines, and Hawaii, prior to coming to Washington to

take over my new appointment.

Chairman RUSSELL. The members of the committee can understand why the friendship of the McDonald family is valued so

highly in political campaigns in Georgia.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Will the Senator yield?

Chairman RUSSELL. Yes.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Unfortunately, I think most of the McDonalds in Massachusetts are Democrats.

Secretary KORTH. Mr. Chairman, might I say that this marks a

first for Admiral McDonald in several respects. This is the first

appearance before any congressional committee. Not his last, I

am sure.

Chairman RUSSELL. I am afraid he didn't get very good preparations or training this morning. We are glad to have you here,

Admiral, and we all wish you well in this very important assignment on which you are about to embark, one of great responsibility.

I am sure that you will discharge your duties with fidelity and

distinction.

(The nomination of Admiral McDonald to be Chief of Naval

Operations was subsequently approved by the committee in executive session and confirmed by the Senate on June 28, 1963.)
NOMINATIONS

NOMINATION OF EUGENE G. FUBINI TO BE AN

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE

Chairman RUSSELL. We have another nomination today, that of

Dr. Eugene G. Fubini of New York, to be Assistant Secretary of

Defense, succeeding Air. John H. Rubel, who has resigned.

Secretary KORTH. May we be excused, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Yes. We are glad to have had you gentlemen here.

(The nomination reference and biographical sketch of Dr. Fubini

follow:)

NOMINATION REFERENCE AND REPORT

IN EXECUTIVE SESSION,

SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,

June 17, 1963.

Ordered, That the following nomination be referred to the Committee on

Armed Services:

Eugene G. Fubini, of New York, to be an Assistant Secretary of Defense,

vice John H. Rubel, resigned.

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF EUGENE G. FUBINI

Dr. Eugene G. (Ghiron) Fubini was born in Turin, Italy, April 19, 1913. He

was educated in Italy, attending the Technical Institute in Turin 1929-31 and

received his doctorate in physics from the University of Rome in 1933.

From 1935 to 1938 he was employed as a research associate at the National

Institute of Electrotechnics in Rome, and from 1939 to 1942 at the Columbia

Broadcasting System in New York as an engineer.

During the period 1942-45, as a research associate of the Harvard University

Radio Research Laboratory, he was concerned with the design, development,

operation, and planning of countermeasure and ferret reconnaissance equipment.

In 1943 and 1944 he was a scientific consultant and technical observer to

the U.S. Army and U.S. Navy in the European theater of operations, where he

participated in the establishment of electronic reconnaissance and jamming

capabilities for the invasion of Italy and southern France. During 1944 and

1945 he was in England with the U.S. 8th Air Force in charge of electronic

reconnaissance and countermeasures, and served also, in 1945, as a special

consultant for electronic countermeasures to the Office of the Air Communications Officer of the War Department.

Dr. Fubini joined the Airborne Instruments Laboratory, Melville, Long Island,

N.Y., as an engineer in 1945, where he was concerned with the development of

microwave components, magnetic detectors, electronic test equipment, boundary

value problems, antijamming devices, antennas, direction finders, and reconnaissance systems. He held various positions with the company that subsequently became the Airborne Instruments Laboratory Division of CutlerHammer Corp. In 1960 he was appointed vice president of the Research & Systems Engineering Division of the Airborne Instruments Laboratory Division.

In 1956 he was a special lecturer at Harvard University.

Since March 1961 Dr. Fubini has been with the Office of Defense Research

and Engineering of the Office of the Secretary of Defense. He is presently the

Deputy Director of Defense Research and Engineering for Research and

Information Systems.

Dr. Fubini is a fellow of the Institute of Radio Engineers and he is the

author of about 30 technical publications and holds 11 patents. He has been

a member of the Air Force Scientific Advisory Board, the Advisory Group on

13
14 NOMINATIONS

Special Projects of the Department of Defense, Chairman of the Electromagnetic Warfare Advisory Group of the Air Research and Development Command, consultant to the President's Science Advisory Committee, member of a

panel of the National Security Agency Scientific Advisory Board, and member

of the Advisory Council for the Advancement of Scientific Research and

Development in New York State.

Dr. Fubini, who received his U.S. citizenship in 1945, is married and has

six children.

Chairman RUSSELL. Secretary Rubel has functioned as Deputy

Director of Defense Research and Engineering under Dr. Brown.

Dr. Fubini, we are pleased to have you here.

We will be glad to have you summarize your background with

a brief biographical statement, and if you have any financial holdings or arrangements that are in conflict with the policy of this

committee covering positions of the kind to which you have been

nominated, we will be glad to have you tell us about that. You

may proceed, Doctor.

STATEMENT OF EUGENE G. FUBINI, NOMINEE TO BE AN ASSISTANT

SECRETARY OF DEFENSE; ACCOMPANIED BY HAROLD E. BROWN,

DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH AND ENGINEERING, DEPARTMENT OF

DEFENSE

Dr. FUBINI. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. • I have transmitted to you, sir, a biographical sketch, and if you will permit me,

I will give you a summary of my .life from a somewhat different

point of view. I was born in Turin, Italy, which is a place near

the mountains, and except for the fact that I spent my summers

mountain climbing, I think I can go back to the point where I

became a doctor of physics under Professor Fermi in Rome in

1933.

After that, I worked for a number of years in Italy in research.

When my father, who was a mathematician, was called to Princeton, I came with him. My first job in this country was with a

broadcasting company, where I started as a field engineer, and in

1941 I was in charge of the engineering department for the shortwave part of the Columbia Broadcasting System.

The war came; I moved to Harvard in a research• laboratory.

I worked there for about a year and a half, and then I spent 6

months on the next to the highest mountain on Corsica setting up

a station in preparation for the invasion of southern France. Since the invasion of southern France did not come through, I

then joined for awhile the Ranger Force of the Navy. Wait a

minute that was with the Army; by the way, with the platoon, and I joined the Navy Ranger Force for the invasion of Elba, which did not turn out so well.

Then I moved to the 8th Air Force in England, where I stayed through April 1945 in charge of our radar countermeasures. As you

see, I did cover all three services.

After the war, I joined a company which at that time was very small, about 100 people. I was an engineer when I started and I

left there as a vice president in 1961. The company also had in- creased in size from about 100 to 2,500. Since March 1961, I have been working as a Deputy to the Director of Defense Research and Engineering, first Dr. York and then Dr. Brown, who is on my left.
NOMINATIONS 15

I have, in that position, covered the areas of reconnaissance research

command control, and similar things. I was nominated to the position of Assistant Secretary of Defense and Deputy to Dr. Brown, as

you know, by the President, on June 17.

Chairman RUSSELL. Since Dr. Fubini started his testimony, Dr.

Brown has come in. He is to be your assistant, Doctor. Do you

care to make any statement to the committee about Dr. Fubini?

Dr. BROWN. I have known Dr. Fubini very slightly for about 11

years, very well for about 3 or 4 years, and I know that as my

Deputy, he will function in a very effective way and very well. He

is very well qualified and he is very strongly motivated by the interests of the United States.

Chairman* RUSSELL. Completely aside from the question of your

nomination, Dr. Fubini I doubt if we will see you around here again

any time soon unless 13r. Brown brings you up with him. Do you

think that we have advanced as far in techniques of jamming and

counterjamming as any other country in the world?

Dr. FUBINI. Well, sir, I think our technology is better than the

technology of any country in the world on the basis of the information that we have available today.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, I don't think I have any

questions. I would like to ask Dr. Fubini what is Dymo Industries?

What do they do?

Dr. Funmi. Senator, I apologize sir; I don't know. I actually

don't choose my own stocks, and so I don't know what it is. I sent

the list of stocks I hold to the staff to investigate whether they do any

business with the Department of Defense. All I know is they don't.

I have not had time to find out, and I am very sorry. I just don't

know.

Chairman RUSSELL. You submitted your holdings to the counsel

over there to find out about those who have contracts with the

Department.

Dr. FUBINI. That is correct. We have made a list of all the stocks

I own, and we have listed all those whiCh do business with the Department of Defense. Discussions with the staff have taken place,

relating to the stocks which I propose to dispose of and those I propose to retain. I have given instructions already for these steps to

be taken, subject to the results of this meeting.

Chairnian RUSSELL. We have a very small staff on this committee,

but they are tremendously efficient, and I will tell you for your information that it has been relayed to me by a member of the committee staff that the Dymo people make a device for embossing

initials on wearing apparel and things of that nature.

Dr. FITBINI. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Stennis.

Senator STENNIS. I have no questions. Thank you.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Smith.

Senator SMITH. No questions. Thank you.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Jackson.

Senator JACKSON. I have no question, other than to say that

everything I have heard about Dr. Fubini has been outstanding. He

was an associate colleague of the late Enrico Fermi, and I think

this speaks for itself as far as his scientific, technical, and professional competency is concerned.
16 NOMINATIONS

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Goldwater.

Senator GOLDWATER. Dr. Brown, just what will the doctor be.

doing for you?

Dr. BROWN. He will be my principal deputy; that is, he will be

my alter ego and, as such, will deal with a broad spectrum of matters

in research and engineering. However, as all of us do, he has his

specialties, and there will be a certain amount of division of labor

between us.

He, for example, has a very, very unequaled background in intelligence activities. So, he will concentrate, among other things, on

those on command control. He is an electronics expert; so on

those matters, he will have a special competence. This will be a

somewhat different area of concentration than Mr. Rubel had.

As you remember, Mr. Rubel spent a good deal of time on space;

more than I. Dr. Fubini will also spend some time on space, but

probably less than I.

Senator GOLDWATER. Doctor, do you still maintain an active interest in radio?

Dr. Fl7BINI. Yes, sir; and I know about you.

Senator GOLDWATER. I was over at the Pentagon this morning to.

look through the new communications center in the basement. That

is a rather remarkable setup. I just wanted to ask that -question

because sometimes you forget your first love, and our mutual saint,

Marconi, being a fellow countryman of yours, I didn't want you to

let this interest lag.

Dr. FUBINI. Senator, I would like to suggest something to you.

Recently, we took a flight from Washington to Alaska to Hawaii_

and to Washington in 48 hours, with one of the command control

airplanes. During that flight, we had two hams flying, and I want

to tell you that we contacted the American stations at the South

Pole a ship off the shores of Chile, a ship off Johannesburg—

the Northampton—and one of the SAC command control airplanes flying over Omaha.

It was a most fascinating experience, which I hope we can share sometime.

Senator GOLDWATER. I have shared a little bit of that in the looking-glass command post.

Dr. FUBINI. That is what I mean.

Senator GOLDWATER. The trouble is they have frequencies that are outside the band; but, once in a while, I use my MARS assignment and sneak up into those frequencies. But we have contacted, the last looking-glass flight I took, we worked 30 States and about 18 foreign countries.

Dr. FUBINI. That is what I mean.

Senator GOLDWATER. We aren't supposed to be doing it. Dr. F-crinNr. I am afraid we are on the record.

Senator GOLDWATER. I have nothing else.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Thurmond.

Senator THURMOND. Mr. Chairman, I have some questions I would like to ask Dr. Fubini.

Dr. Fubini, I see by your biographical sketch that. you were born in Italy on April 19, 1913. While you were attending the Technical
NOMINATIONS 17

Institute in Turin, were you associated with any Fascist student

movements?

Dr. F-crniNi. Yes, sir. I was—in Italy, the student movement was

almost a compulsory thing, and I paid dues to the so-called GUF, the

university group of Fascist students; that is correct. There was a

national organization of students and, in Italy, at that time, it was

Fascist.

Senator THURMOND. Were you associated with any other political

activity or political movements in Italy during the 1930's?

Dr. FUBINI. No, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Was the National Institute of Electrotechnics a Fascist or Government financed and operated institute?

Dr. FUBINI. It was an institute which was mostly financed by the

Government, but there were some industrial contributions, because

it was the only institute in Italy which had a broad area of research

and, therefore, the electrical industry contributed some money to its

work.

Senator THURMOND. During your younger days in the 1920's, were

you ever associated, either directly or indirectly, with Augusto

Turrattis' Dopolavoro movements?

Dr. FUBINI. First of all, no; because I was not associated with any

movements. But I do not quite understand the name which you said.

Would you please repeat it, sir?

Senator THURMOND. Augusto Turrattis' Dopolavoro.

Dr. FUBINI. No, sir. I mean I was not associated. That is what

I meant.

Senator GOLDWATER. That is the first time I heard Italian with a

southern accent.

. Senator THURMOND. Were you ever associated with any Communist or Socialist movements in Italy?

Dr. FUBINI. No, sir.

Senator THURMOND. What type of passport and visa did you have

when you left Italy?

Dr. Frium. When I left Italy, I had an affidavit in lieu of a visa

issued, by the U.S. consulate, because the Italian Government did

not give me a passport valid for the United States.

Senator THURMOND. You did what?

Dr. FUBINI. The Italian Government has not given me a visa to

leave Italy and come to the United States, so, by the law—the law

says an affidavit in lieu of passport is sufficient and that is the document which I had when I came to this country.

Senator THURMOND. What kind did you have?

Dr. FUBINI. Affidavit in lieu of passport.

Senator THURMOND. You had no passport or visa?

Dr. FUBINI. I did not have an approved Italian passport; no, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Will you describe the circumstances under

which you left Italy?

Dr. FumNi. I left Italy both for racial reasons and for political

reasons. My family decided they couldn't stand it, and decided to

leave. My father went to the University of Princeton and therefore

I joined him there.

Senator THURMOND. Is that all you have to say in connection with

that?
18 NOMINATIONS

Dr. Furium. I will be very happy to answer any questions.

Senator THURMOND. I am asking you now.

Dr. FITBINI. I don't have anything else.

Senator THURMOND. I want you to tell us what other circumstances.

Dr. FUBINI. Those are the circumstances, I believe.

Senator THURMOND. And nothing else ?

Dr. FusiNi. Nothing else.

Senator THURMOND. Was there any persecution of Jews in Italy

under Mussolini while you were still in Italy?

Dr. FUBINI. Say that again, please.

Senator THURMOND. Was there any persecution of Jews in Italy

under Mussolini while you were still in Italy?

Dr. FUBINI. On the question of Jews, yes, there was some antiSemitic legal law.

Senator THURMOND. Persecution of Jews?

Dr. FIMINI. No, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Did you leave Italy with any large sum of

money, bonds, or other negotiable U.S. securities, and if so, will

you describe how you obtained them?

Dr. FUBINI. I left Italy—let me put it this way: When I left

Italy, my family had a certain amount of money, and this money

was partially obtained from Italy and partially in a bank account

in the United States.

Senator THURMOND. Would you tell• us how much money you

brought with you, or bonds or other negotiable U.S. securities?

Dr. FusiNi. I will be very happy to tell you. My best guess

is that in 1939, when I came to this country, the total amount

of money which was owned by my father and my mother, myself, and

my brother was in the Order of magnitude equivalent to, well, let's say, $400,000.

Senator THURMOND. Did you bring that with you?

Dr. FusiNi. It was in this country, sir. It was in a bank account

in America.

Senator THURMOND. What did you bring with you?

Dr. FUBINI. You mean in my pocket?

Senator THURMOND. Well, in your pocket, in your suitcase or any

other way that you brought it.

Dr. FumNi. Well, sir, I just don't remember exactly how much

I had with me.

Senator THURMOND. Come on, now you know what you brought with you.

Dr. FITBINI. I don't know what I brought.

Senator THURMOND. Did you bring any large sum of money or bonds or other negotiable U.S. securities, and will you tell us how

you obtained this, sir?

Dr. FUBINI. Sir, I did not bring, to the best of my knowledge and my recollection—and this, sir, was 25 years ago—I did not bring

any large sums of money or American securities or bonds in

my possession at the time when I got in, and to the best of my recollection, sir, all these moneys that I described •to you were in

a bank account in this country.

Senator THURMOND. You are telling this committee, then, you brought in no money or bonds or other negotiable U.S. securities when

you came here?
NOMINATIONS 19

Dr. F-u-BINI. Let's say, I am sure I had travelers' checks and I am

sure I had cash. I don't know how much it was, sir, at that time.

Let's say something like, well, $4,000 or $5,000, I am sure we had in

our hands.

Senator THURMOND. Did you have as much as $40,000?

Dr. FUBINI. In my hand? I don't think so. I don't think so.

Senator THURMOND. You don't want to be any more specific than

that?

Dr. FETBINI. Senator Thurmond, I am really honestly trying to do

my very best in answering your question to the best of my recollection and my knowledge. I don't have complete recollection, but the

way we did things would exclude my having anything like $40,000

in my hand.

Senator THURMOND. So you deny, then, that you did bring in anything like $40,000 in bonds, money, or other negotiable U.S.

securities?

Dr. FUBINI. I repeat, to the best of my recollection, I deny it.

Senator THURMOND. Can you tell us the circumstances concerning

your original entry into the Office of Defense Research and Engineering of the Secretary of Defense?

Dr. FUBINI. Sure. I participated in a number of committees working for the Department of Defense for a long number of years, and I

have participated in a substantial amount of work in the area of

research and engineering, and when the offer was made to me as to

whether I would consider leaving private employment to come to the

Department of Defense, I considered the fact that there was a loss of

salary and a substantial loss in shall we say, security. But frankly,

I felt that it was the thing to do, and it was, I think, the thing to do

for very many reasons, and I will be very happy to tell you the reasons, sir, if you want me to.

Senator THURMOND. How long have you been with the Department of Defense?

Dr. Fromm. Two and a half years.

Senator THURMOND. Are you personally acquainted with Mr.

Adam Yarmolinsky, and if so, for how long have you known him?

Dr. FUBINI. I am personally acquainted with Mr. Adam Yarmolinsky. I met him for the first time about a month and a half after

I came to the Pentagon. I met him for the first time when Mr. C. P.

Snow came to give a speech, and I would say I and Mr. Nitze disposed of Mr. Snow's theories.

Senator THURMOND. You did not know him before that?

Dr. FITBINI. No, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Would you describe for us what your duties

would be as Assistant Secretary of Defense, with particular emphasis

on your responsibilities in the communications?

Dr. FustNi. I presume that this hearing, sir, is unclassified, and

on that basis, I will say this. The responsibility—the National Security Agency is an agency of the U.S. Government. The Secretary

of Defense is Executive Agent for the National Security Council

and the National Security Agency reports to the Secretary of Defense through the Assistant Secretary of Defense and Deputy, that

means myself, if this hearing confirms the nomination.
20 NOMINATIONS

Senator THURMOND. Will you pass on security clearances in the

COMINT field?

Dr. FUBINI. Well, first of all, I am not sure about that, sir. But

let's put it in the following context. To the extent that the National

Security Agency has a national responsibility for passing upon the

security in this field, there is no doubt that I will have to play a

part in that matter.

Senator THURMOND. What would be the consequence of granting a

COMINT security clearance to a person of doubtful loyalty?

Dr. FUBINI. I presume that this would not happen, and therefore,

I presume that all efforts will be taken to prevent this from happening.

As a matter of fact, let's go a little bit further. I believe that a

recent bill has been passed by the Congress to the extent that recognizing the sensitivity of the security problem in connection with the

National Security Agency, the right has been given the National

Security Agency to apply to its own employees criteria and rules

which are similar to the ones which are available to the Central

Intelligence Agency, and I expect to use, to have this bill applied.

Senator THURMOND. What is your idea or description of a security

risk?

Dr. FUBINI. I think sir, a security risk is covered by the law, and

I will therefore try to paraphrase the law as I know it. A security

risk, sir, is a person who has had association with people who are

disloyal to the Government. A security risk is a person who has

engaged in activities which are disloyal to the American Government. A security risk is a person who can be subject to blackmail,

and therefore, a person by this rule is a person who has engaged in

acts which are immoral or not recognized by society as being proper.

A security risk is a person who, having received information sensitive in character, does not apply the proper criterion for discussing

it.

Senator THURMOND. Would your duties in this new position in any

manner involve the "hot line" between Moscow and Washington?

Dr. FUBINI. No, sir. Let me rephrase that. Directly, no.

However, I believe that if we were going into the area of research

and development, of improving the present arrangement which has

Just been clefinitized with a "hot line," I may be involved in determining the proper equipment to be employed or to be modified to achieve

new requirements.

Senator THURMOND. Will your duties to any extent involve the socalled permissive link fail-safe system on our nuclear weapons?

Dr. FUBINI. Yes, sir. My duties will involve discussion and studies

and development steps to be taken in order to give this country an

effective permissive link if the American policy so desires, to the

extent that the policy of the American Government so desires.

Senator THURMOND. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I have no more

questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Young.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, may I most respectfully ask

one question?

Chairman RUSSELL. Yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I Will wait.
NOMINATIONS 21

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Young, do you object to yielding to

Senator Saltonstall?

Senator YOUNG. NO, I am glad to yield. I have no questions, Mr.

Chairman.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I thank you. Dr. Fubini, my only question

is this: You came to see me in my office the other day with Dr.

Brown, and in connection with other matters, I asked you if you had

the highest type of security clearance, and. you answered in the

affirmative.

Dr. FUBINI. Yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. You have the highest type of clearance for

all secrets and everything else that has to do with our Defense Department; is that correct?

Dr. FUBINI. Senator Saltonstall, I believe I have a large number of

clearances. I think I have some of the highest ones • yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And Dr. Brown confirms that?

Dr. BROWN. Yes, sir, Senator Saltonstall.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you, Senator Young.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Inouye.

Senator INOUYE. Mr. Chairman, I have been impressed by the doctor's answer to the questions by Senator Thurmond. May I just ask

what were the circumstances of your joining our armed services

during the last war?

Dr. FUBINI. Senator, I didn't join the armed services. I was a

very peculiar individual, sir. I was, I think, unique in the Armed

Forces of the United States. I was in an American uniform with

no passport, working with the Army, with the Navy, and the Air

Force. I had the highest clearance from the British Government on

its own facilities, and I remember a very interesting story.

Wing Commander Arnold, the guy who got hold of Fuchs, called

me one day and said, "I would like to meet you."

Fine, so he brought me to the senior officer mess in Grosvenor

Square. He handed me a little red tag and I looked at it and it was a

pass to TRE, the technical research establishment where the highest

security work was going on in England. I took the tag and put in

in my pocket and said, "Thank you very much."

He reached my arm and said, "Wait a moment, just one moment.

Will you please look at it?"

I said, "I looked at it." Who signed it? Sir Stafford Cripps.

"Well," I said, "I assume it is a stamped signature." "Oh, no," he said,

"you are the only person in the United Kingdom who has this clearance,

and you have been looked over by the British Cabinet."

So you see, sir, I was a very peculiar individual. I went through

the frontier and everybody knew about me because I was an enemy

alien and I was in American uniform and had an AGO card. I

flew on missions over enemy territory because I felt it had to be done

in order to properly map the defense in the Mediterranean, knowing

full well that, since I was in uniform but not a military man, I could

be shot.

But I believed it was one of the things that had to be done.

So I was not in the Armed Forces. I was with the Armed Forces.

I was being shot at, but I was not in them. That is the reason
22 NOMINATIONS

why I was able to work with the Army, the Navy, and the Air

Force almost simultaneously.

Senator INOUYE. I have no further questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. What would have happened to you had you

been forced down?

Dr. FUBINI. Well, sir, I had an AGO card which, I checked

with the international lawyers, could have been used as a means

to pretend that insofar as the Italians were concerned, I was not

a spy, but when you deal with these problems, I am not sure that

you want to go by the law.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Symington.

Senator SYMINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Dr. Fubini, you have a fine record, your experience and training. At this time, we are conducting some hearings on a nuclear

test ban in the Military Preparedness Subcommittee. Do you

believe that the risk to this country of the Soviets cheating on

any agreed-upon nuclear test ban, regardless of the contents of the

agreement, would be less than the risk of having no test ban?

Dr. FUBINI. Senator, let me be honest with you. I told Dr.

Brown there were a number of areas where I was not going to

be fully informed. You see, when you deal with the person who

is not only much more competent than you are, you are at somewhat of a disadvantage if you try to work in that area of his

competency. So I have not participated either directly or indirectly

in the preparation or the study of the American policy on the test

ban, and I have not informed myself in any appreciable detail

regarding the technological problems which would be involved in

answering your question.

So, with all due apologies to you, sir, I will have to refrain from

*answering.

Senator SYMINGTON. Then you will not be involved in this

problem?

Dr. FUBINI. Sir, I did not have the position of principal Deputy

until a very short time ago. I don't have the position of Assistant

Secretary of Defense even now. Therefore, sir, I devoted my attention to the areas where my boss wanted me to devote attention and

it happens that this is one which neither I nor he wanted to.

Now, in my new position, I expect to be informed across the

board, to be particularly informed in particular areas, and I certainly

will be informed in. the area of a test ban, but I am not there yet.

Senator SYMINGTON. When you decide you are informed on it

to the point where you would make a recommendation in this field,

would you acquaint the committee with your thoughts in the matter?

Dr. FumisTi. I will be very happy to do so. As a matter of fact, let me put it the other way, if I may.

I would welcome having the opportunity given to me to express

my thoughts on this matter after I have had a chance to acquaint

myself with it.

Senator SYMINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have no

further questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Engle, do you have any questions?

Senator ENGLE. No, I do not, Mr. Chairman. I am sorry I

am late getting here. I had two other meetings.
NOMINATIONS 23

Chairman RUSSELL. If there are no further questions, we thank

you very much. Dr. Brown, are you completely satisfied that Dr.

Fubini is a good security risk ?

Dr. BROWN. Dr. Fubini satisfies me completely on that count,

sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. Thank you. I just wanted to get that in

the record.

(The nomination of Dr. Fubini to be an Assistant Secretary of

Defense was subsequently approved by the committee in executive

session and confirmed by the Senate on June 28, 1963.)
I
I

NOMINATIONS

NOMINATION OF ALEXANDER HENRY FLAX TO BE AN

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE

Chairman RUSSELL. The last nomination for open session is

that of Mr. Alexander Henry Flax, of New York, to be Assistant

Secretary of the Air Force, succeeding Brockway McMillan, who

was recently confirmed as Under Secretary of the Air Force.

(The nomination reference and the biographical sketch of Alexander

Henry Flax follow:)

NOMINATION REFERENCE AND REPORT

IN EXECUTIVE SESSION,

SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,

June 19, 1963,

Ordered, That the following nominations be referred to the Committee on

Armed Services:

Alexander Henry Flax, of New York, to be an Assistant Secretary of the

Air Force, 'vice Brockway McMillan.

ALEXANDER HENRY FLAX, AERONAUTICAL ENGINEER

Born: Brooklyn, January 18,1921.

Education: Bachelor Aeronautical Engineering, New York University, 1940;

Ph. D.. in physics, University of Buffalo, 1958.

Career: Structural and vibration engineer, airplane division, Curtiss-Wright

Corp., 1940-44; chief, aerodynamics and structures, Piasecki Helicopter Corp.,

1944 46: assistant head aeromechanics department, Cornell Aeronautical

Laboratory, 1946-49; head, aerodynamics department, 1949-55; assistant director, 1955-56; vice president, technical director, 1956-59,1961- ; chief scientist,

U.S. Air Force, 1959-61.

Committees: Committee on aerodynamics, NACA, 1952-54; subcommittee on

highspeed aerodynamics, 1954-58; advisory committee on aircraft aerodynamics,

NASA, 1958- .

Awards : Fellow, Institute of Aeronautical Sciences (Lawrence Sperry

Award, 1959; Wright Bros. lecturer, 1959).

Memberships: American Rocket Society, American Ordnance Association, Air

Force Association, Sigma Xi.

Family: Wife, Ida Leane Warren; daughter, Laurel Elizabeth.

Office: Cornell Aeronautical Laboratory Inc., Buffalo, N.Y.

Chairman RUSSELL. We are glad to have you here, Mr. Flax.

Please give us a brief statement covering your career and education,

and also any financial holdings you may have that may be in conflict

with the policy of this committee.

STATEMENT OF ALEXANDER HENRY FLAX, NOMINEE TO BE

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE AIR FORCE

Mr. FLAX. I will make this review of my biography fairly brief

and if there are questions, I will be glad to answer them.

I was born in Brooklyn, N.Y., in 1921, received my education,

elementary and high school education in New York City, received my

degree as bachelor of aeronautical engineering in 1940 from New

25
26 NOMINATIONS

York University, worked in the aircraft industry from 1940 to 1946.

In 1946, I joined an organization with which I have maintained

continuous contact until I resigned just a month ago.

That was the Cornell Aeronautical Laboratory of Cornell University. I came in as an assistant department head and left as the vice

president and technical director.

During the period with the Cornell Aeronautical Laboratory, I had

two periods of leave, one for a year to go back to school and complete

the requirements for a doctor of philosophy degree, which I did in

1957 at the University of Buffalo, the second time to serve as the

Chief Scientist of the Air Force from 1959 to 1961. That was from

September 1959 to April 1961. Following that I returned to the

laboratory in my former position until I resigned from that position

a month ago.

As to stockholdings, I have not submitted any statement because,

at the present time, my holdings are limited to one block of stock

which I am in the process of disposing of. I expect that transaction

to be completed either late this week or early next week, and I will

be pleased to report to the committee on completion of that

transaction.

Chairman RUSSELL. Have you divested yourself of all financial

holdings?

Mr. FLAX. I think you missed my final remark.

Chairman RUSSELL. Sorry, I had an aside here.

Mr. FLAX. I presently hold only one block of stock which I am in

the process of disposing of and I expect that to be completed by

next week.

Chairman RUSSELL. You have checked with the General Counsel of

the Department of Defense?

Mr. FLAX. Yes.

Chairman RUSSELL. And you will dispose of that if it is in conflict

in the immediate future?

Mr. FLAX. Yes, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. You seem to have had a very interesting career

in areas that would fit you for your responsibility in research and

development. Senator Saltonstall.

Senator SALTONSTALL. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Stennis.

Senator STENNIS. I have no questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Smith.

Senator SMITH. I have no questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Symington.

Senator SYMINGTON. No questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Jackson.

Senator JACKSON. No questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Goldwater.

Senator GOLDWATER. No questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Thurmond.

Senator THURMOND. No questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator. Engle.

Senator ENGLE. No questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Young.

Senator YOUNG. I feel the same,, Mr. Chairman.
4

NOMINATIONS 27

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Inouye.

Senator INOUYE. No questions, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. Thank you very much, Mr. Flax.

Mr. FLAX. Thank you, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. The committee will now go into executive session.

(Whereupon, at 11:20 a.m., the committee went into executive

session.)

(The nomination of Mr. Flax to be an Assistant Secretary of the

Air Force was subsequently approved by the committee in executive

session and confirmed by the Senate on June 28, 1963.)

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