U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

56–529 WASHINGTON : 2024

FIELD HEARING ON THE SUCCESS OF 

PRO-GROWTH, PRO-WORKER TAX POLICY 

IN THE AMERICAN MIDWEST 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

AUGUST 16, 2024 

Serial No. 118–FC31 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Ways and Means 

( 


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COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS 

JASON SMITH, Missouri, Chairman 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

ADRIAN SMITH, Nebraska 

MIKE KELLY, Pennsylvania 

DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona 

DARIN LAHOOD, Illinois 

BRAD WENSTRUP, Ohio 

JODEY ARRINGTON, Texas 

DREW FERGUSON, Georgia 

RON ESTES, Kansas 

LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania 

KEVIN HERN, Oklahoma 

CAROL MILLER, West Virginia 

GREG MURPHY, North Carolina 

DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee 

BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania 

GREG STEUBE, Florida 

CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York 

MICHELLE FISCHBACH, Minnesota 

BLAKE MOORE, Utah 

MICHELLE STEEL, California 

BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas 

RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa 

NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York 

MIKE CAREY, Ohio 

RICHARD E. NEAL, Massachusetts 

LLOYD DOGGETT, Texas 

MIKE THOMPSON, California 

JOHN B. LARSON, Connecticut 

EARL BLUMENAUER, Oregon 

BILL PASCRELL, JR., New Jersey 

DANNY DAVIS, Illinois 

LINDA SA ́ NCHEZ, California 

TERRI SEWELL, Alabama 

SUZAN DELBENE, Washington 

JUDY CHU, California 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

DAN KILDEE, Michigan 

DON BEYER, Virginia 

DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania 

BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois 

JIMMY PANETTA, California 

JIMMY GOMEZ, California 

MARK ROMAN, Staff Director 

BRANDON CASEY, Minority Chief Counsel 


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C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page 

Hon. Jason Smith, Missouri, Chairman ................................................................ 1 

Advisory of August 16, 2023 announcing the hearing .......................................... V 

WITNESSES 

Karen Dewalt, Vice President, Global Tax, The Home Depot ............................. 6 

Sarah Curry, Mother, Glenwood, Iowa, and Research Director, Iowans for 

Tax Relief Foundation ......................................................................................... 13 

Jolene Riessen, Farmer, Ida Grove, Iowa, and President, Iowa Corn ................. 18 

Steve Sukup, President and CEO, Sukup Manufacturing Co. ............................. 22 

Lana Pol, Owner and President, Geetings, Inc. .................................................... 31 

LOCAL SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Local Submissions ................................................................................................... 129 

PUBLIC SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Public Submissions .................................................................................................. 143 


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THE SUCCESS OF PRO-GROWTH, 

PRO-WORKER TAX POLICY 

IN THE AMERICAN MIDWEST 

FRIDAY, AUGUST 16, 2024 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, 

COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS, 

Washington, DC. 

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:01 a.m., Central, 

Oman Family Youth Inn, Logan Avenue, Iowa State Fairgrounds, 

Des Moines, Iowa, Hon. Jason Smith [chairman of the committee] 

presiding. 

Chairman SMITH. The committee will come to order. 

Without objection, the gentlewoman from Iowa, Mrs. Hinson, the 

gentlewoman from Iowa, Dr. Miller-Meeks, and the gentleman from 

Iowa, Mr. Nunn, are authorized to participate in the hearing and 

ask questions today. 

Good morning, and welcome to everyone who is joining us today 

at the Iowa State Fair. 

I want to thank my good friend, Randy Feenstra, for hosting us 

in his home State. Randy is a true champion for rural America and 

small towns because it is where he is from. I can tell you that when 

he is in D.C., he always brings Iowa with him. It is not Missouri, 

but it is Iowa, so—— 

Mr. FEENSTRA. A little better. 

Chairman SMITH. We also have the entire Iowa House delegation joining us today. Few delegations are as good as the one up 

here about banding together to fight for their home state and for 

their communities. 

I do want to take a minute just to express my disappointment 

that not one of our Democrat colleagues have joined us here today 

on the committee. This is our second field hearing in a row where 

none have made the effort to join us in conducting our committee 

business outside the marble halls of Washington, D.C. 

We are here to sit down and have a conversation with working people about the need to protect Americans from a $4.6 trillion in 

tax hikes that will happen the end of next year. You would think 

that would merit at least one Democrat showing up to listen. With 

proper notice, multiple weeks, there are still empty chairs. 

The State Fair couldn’t be more different than the halls of Congress, and that is exactly why we are here, to listen to regular people, people who run a small business, work their farm, or folks just 

trying to make ends meet for their families. 


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Part of the problem is every dollar you earn is taxed over and 

over again. Just think about all the taxes you pay every day. You 

pay property tax on your house. You pay taxes on the land you own 

and work. Your car and the gas to fill it up to get to your job or 

to use on your farm are taxed. Taxes on your employer means a 

smaller paycheck for you. That paycheck is taxed by Washington, 

and then taxed again buying groceries and other basics for your 

family. Once you stop working, your retirement is taxed. Even after 

death, Uncle Sam still wants his cut, and he wants your grieving 

family members to pay it. 

Republicans look at working families and want to make it easier 

to help them get ahead. And we know that a smaller government, 

less regulations, and less taxation is the way to do that. 

Under President Trump, we passed a tax cut that benefited the working class. After that tax cut, people making less than $100,000 

got, on average, a 16 percent cut in their tax bill to the government, while the top one percent actually saw their share of taxes 

go up. Workers in the bottom 10 percent saw 50 percent faster 

wage growth than people in the highest 10 percent. When working 

families prosper, America prospers. 

Five million jobs were created after enactment of the Trump tax 

cuts. Investment rose over 20 percent. We ended the decades’ long 

trend of American businesses moving their headquarters and jobs 

overseas. 

The lesson we should take from the Trump tax cuts is that when 

we put working families first, help small businesses succeed, and 

give Americans the tools to outcompete China, America will win. 

Democrats in Washington, including Vice President Harris, they 

don’t see it that way. They look at working families, and they see 

an ATM to fund their big government spending. That is why President Biden and Vice President Harris have both separately promised to let these beneficial tax cuts expire in order to raise taxes 

on all Americans, every single American. 

Vice President Harris has actually gone so far to call it a day one 

priority to repeal the Trump tax cuts in their entirety. Letting the 

Trump tax cuts expire would mean the average family of four earning $75,000 or less a year would face a $1,500 tax increase. That 

means smaller paychecks for families already struggling to make 

ends meet because of inflation that has gone up more than 20.3 

percent in the last 3.5 years. 

The Child Tax Credit would be slashed in half. The guaranteed 

deduction would be cut in half. The death tax exemption would also 

be slashed in half, especially hurting farmers in states like Iowa 

and Missouri. Small and family run businesses, like so many farms 

are, would see their tax burden climb to 43.4 percent, making it 

harder to compete against larger corporations paying a 21 percent 

tax rate. 

So other than tax increases, what exactly are the tax priorities 

of the other side? As I said, none of my Democrat colleagues are 

here to answer that question. But if they were, my guess is they 

would be celebrating that today, that this very day actually marks 

the 2-year anniversary of the so-called Inflation Reduction Act becoming law. Democrats stuffed that bill with $650 billion in special 

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dollar companies, and China. Despite its name, the Inflation Reduction Act has done nothing to lower prices from where they were 

2 years ago. It would be better named the Inflation Expansion Act. 

None of this would have happened without Vice President Harris’ 

tie-breaking vote in the Senate. As the tie-breaking vote, she 

helped usher through a $10 trillion increase in government spending in just their first two years in office. This is the Democrats’ 

plan for America, higher prices and higher taxes for the little guy 

and welfare for the wealthy and well-connected. 

That is why Republicans on this committee have formed tax 

teams and are traveling all over the country to build on the successful Trump tax cuts and stop the $7 trillion Biden-Harris tax 

hike. We have held over 60 meetings so far, with many more on 

the way. And just yesterday, the Rural America Tax Team led by 

Chairman Smith traveled through Nebraska and western Iowa to 

hear how the Tax Code can help farmers and small towns. 

I want to thank the witnesses for all being here today and sharing how the Trump tax cuts made a difference for you and your 

community. 

We also want to hear from everyone in attendance. There will be 

clipboards that our teams will pass out throughout the process we 

ask that you submit for the record. We will enter those into the official House record of the hearing and take those back with us to 

Washington as we consider how to build on the successes of the 

prior tax cuts. 

I am pleased to recognize our generous host, our good friend, 

Congressman Feenstra, for 1 minute. 

Mr. FEENSTRA. Thank you, Chairman Smith. 

I want to thank my colleagues for coming. We have taken Congress out of D.C. and brought it to the breadbasket of the world, 

to the Midwest, to Iowa, and I want to thank you for being here. 

I want to thank our witnesses for coming today. I want to thank 

Karen, Sarah, Jolene, Steve, and Lana for taking the time to answer the questions that we might have. 

This is so important for us as a state, for the Midwest. You think 

about what we have, from cattle to hogs, to dairy to eggs, to turkeys, to biofuels, to corn and soybeans. This is so important. This 

is our way of life that we are going to talk about today. But our 

way of life is affected when the tax cuts that happened in 2017 go 

away. 

I think of our families, where we doubled the standard deduction 

in 2017. We doubled the Child Tax Credit for our families. I think 

of the small businesses and agricultural community that does the 

199A, pass-through credit, got a 20 percent discount. They got interest expensing reduced, got 179 depreciation increased. It goes on 

and on. But all these things go away and all have a dramatic affect 

for our families, for our small businesses, for our main streets. And 

when they are affected, our schools are affected, our hospitals are 

affected, and so many other things. That is why it is so important 

that we have this discussion today. 

And, finally, I just want to say, I ushered through in 2018, when 

the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was passed, I ushered it through the 

Iowa Senate where we did the largest tax cut at that time in Iowa 

history. Well, I will say this: I did it in the Iowa Senate, being 


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chair of the Ways and Means, and I will come through again for 

each Iowan to make sure that these tax cuts continue to be cut as 

we move forward. 

Thank you so much, Chairman. 

Thanks, everyone, for being here. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

I am pleased to recognize the gentlewoman from Iowa, Mrs. 

Hinson. 

Mrs. HINSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for coming 

back to the State Fair, repeat customer. This is the second year in 

the row Mr. Chairman has been here. 

Thank you to our witnesses and to everyone in the audience for 

coming out to talk about these important issues that affect our 

businesses here, our farmers, our producers, and working families. 

We are going to highlight a lot of those really important issues 

today. 

Mr. Chairman, I was struck by what you said about the agenda 

coming out of the Harris administration, Harris-Biden administration, and they will raise your taxes. I serve on the House Appropriations Committee, so thank you for letting me sit in as a guest 

today. But our committee is responsible for, hopefully, judiciously 

spending your tax dollars. 

I think there is a philosophical difference happening right now 

in Washington, D.C. We believe that that is your money, not the 

government’s money. But our ranking member on that committee 

said just a few months ago in our markups this year, we do not 

have a spending problem; we have a revenue problem. That to me 

is code for they want to raise your taxes and they are addicted to 

spending your money. 

So Democrats, including Vice President Harris, have promised to 

roll back these important tax cuts that Randy was just talking 

about, calling for a repeal of stepped-up basis and expiration of the 

199A small business deduction. These are policies that so many 

multigenerational small family farms and businesses rely on every 

single day. And these are a critical tool to support all of our economies, but especially our rural economy here in Iowa. 

So we need to be competitive. We need to be competitive with our 

adversaries like the Chinese Communist Party. And I look forward 

to having the discussion today with our witnesses and all of you 

and my fellow colleagues from all over the country about how we 

can make sure we are returning that money, your money, back to 

you. 

And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

I am pleased to recognize the gentleman from Iowa, Mr. Nunn. 

Mr. NUNN. Well, Chairman Smith, thank you so much for being 

here in the heart of the heartland. You know, I think we need more 

of these hearings outside of the beltway and right in the corn belt, 

because this is where you are going to hear not from, you know, 

politicians and lobbyists but from real practitioners and real leaders. 

I am thrilled with the lineup that we have today, and I am grateful for members across the country on your Ways and Means Committee taking time to come out here and learn how it impacts your 


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district, then learn how it impacts really the middle of America and 

the jobs and the families and the lives that are impacted directly 

by this. 

I am proud that on day one as a freshman on this panel, I went 

against the establishment to make sure that we fought for key 

taxes that impact our State. Working with this team here, we held 

together to make sure that biofuels were part of America’s energy 

solution and our national security solution. With that, we were able 

to achieve it, and with your help, Mr. Chairman, thank you for 

hearing us out on this. 

I am also very proud, you know, as a dad of six, with two foster 

kids here that are now adopted, that we have made a priority of 

the Child Tax Credit. It helps every family, it grows the economy, 

and it is important for our future here as families. 

And I am also privileged to help lead the HEART Act to help 

families who are decimated by natural disasters like those that 

happened right here in Greenfield, Iowa, where nearly a third of 

the town was destroyed by severe storms and tornadoes. 

The 2017 tax credit has been a critical lifeline for all Americans, 

but particularly those right here in Iowa, with the average Iowa 

family of four seeing a 22 percent tax cut, because of your good 

work. If these are allowed to expire through inaction or false promises, Iowans will see a 22 percent increase in their overall taxes at 

a time when no Iowa family can afford it. 

Because of the leadership that has happened both on this committee and I would say with your Iowa delegation, we have been 

part of the team that has cut Iowa taxes three times, the largest 

tax cuts in Iowa history. We have a proven example of how this 

works to grow the economy, to help all families, and as my colleagues highlighted here, to make sure that we pay off our debt 

while being successful for the future. 

Because of these tax cuts, Iowans have more money in their 

pockets and they invest them right in the communities that matter, 

spending on their families and their communities and to grow our 

local economy. 

So, Mr. Chairman, thank you for doing this, and thank you for 

the opportunity to join you. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you, sir. 

I will now introduce our witnesses for today. 

The first one is Karen Dewalt, who is the vice president for Global Tax at Home Depot. We have Sarah Curry, who is a mother of 

three from Glenwood, Iowa, and serves as the research director at 

the Iowans for Tax Relief Foundation. We have Jolene Riessen, 

who is a farmer from Ida Grove, Iowa, and serves as the president 

of Iowa Corn. We have Steve Sukup, who is the president and CEO 

of Sukup Manufacturing Company, a family-owned grain storage 

and drying manufacturer based in Sheffield, Iowa. And we have 

Lana Pol, who is the owner and president of Geetings, a small 

trucking company based in Pella, Iowa. 

Thank you all for joining us today. Your written statements will 

be made part of the hearing record, and you each have 5 minutes 

to deliver remarks. 

We will start with you, Mrs. Dewalt. You may begin. 


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STATEMENT OF KAREN DEWALT, VICE PRESIDENT, GLOBAL 

TAX, THE HOME DEPOT 

Mrs. DEWALT. Thank you, Chairman Smith. 

Members of the Ways and Means Committee and members of the 

Iowa delegation, thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf 

of The Home Depot on why it is important to keep a competitive 

corporate tax rate. As the largest home improvement retailer, The 

Home Depot is uniquely in tune with how a competitive corporate 

tax rate is essential to staying in business in the United States. 

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, TCJA, which reduced the corporate 

tax rate to 21 percent, has been necessary in enabling American 

companies like ours to create jobs, invest domestically, and offer 

low prices on products for Iowans and all consumers. I am here 

today to share just how much The Home Depot invests in our great 

country. 

In the U.S., we operate over 2,000 stores and employ over 

400,000 associates. Every Home Depot job supports more than four 

additional jobs across the U.S., which is more than twice the retail 

average. In Iowa alone, we support more than 7,000 jobs. In 2023, Home Depot paid $5 billion in corporate income taxes, 

which is approximately 1 percent of all Federal income taxes collected in the United States. No one can say that we don’t pay our 

fair share in taxes. 

Since the enactment of TCJA, we have undertaken several initiatives that demonstrate the positive impact of a lower tax rate. First, expansion and employment. We have invested $1.2 billion 

in our supply chain since 2017, establishing over 100 warehouse facilities. This has created more than 18,000 jobs in the U.S., improved our operational efficiency, and expanded our ability to deliver large, bulky merchandise like lumber, insulation, and roofing 

to better serve our pro customers. 

Second, investment in our workforce. The Home Depot invested 

approximately $1 billion in frontline associate wages in 2021 and 

an additional $1 billion annualized wage investment last year, ensuring our employees are compensated fairly and competitively. 

This benefits our associates and contributes to local economies 

through increased spending power. 

Additionally, our store managers see the benefit of our wage investments in the lives of our associates. Our West Des Moines store 

manager told the story of one of his associates, a local Iowan whose 

life has changed from the Home Depot’s investment in wage. She 

has gone from working two jobs to make ends meet to joining The 

Home Depot, growing her career, now as a department supervisor, 

and just moved in to a new apartment with her son. 

Finally, we have invested significantly in technology to create an 

interconnected retail experience and help our associates provide 

better customer service. 

Now we are embarking on our next growth chapter, planning to 

open 80 new stores over the next five years, more than a dozen of 

which have already opened. 

These examples show that when we were given a lower rate 

through TCJA, we aggressively invested it back into our business 

and people. Any increase in the corporate rate will decrease the 

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ture, and capabilities, and will threaten to make us less competitive. Our investments in local communities through job creation, 

small business support, and giving back help stimulate local economies and improve quality of life. 

For example, we have over 80 small businesses in Iowa and Missouri that deliver supplies to our stores. These suppliers sold more 

than $140 million worth of product to The Home Depot in 2023. 

In addition, Home Depot is committed to supporting communities 

with natural disaster preparedness, short-term response and longterm recovery, which makes a real difference when the need arises. 

In 2023, The Home Depot Foundation committed more than $8 million for disaster preparedness, response, and long-term recoveries 

in impacted communities from natural disasters. And this May, the 

Foundation committed up to $300,000 to harder-to-reach communities, including those in Iowa impacted by tornadoes and severe 

flooding. This is an invaluable impact of our footprint with associates in every state in the U.S. ready and able to serve our communities. 

In conclusion, maintaining a competitive corporate tax rate of 21 

percent is essential for the continued growth and success of U.S.- 

based companies like The Home Depot. It enables us to invest in 

our business, create jobs, and provide value to American consumers 

while supporting the broader economy. 

Our stores don’t just sell products. They empower homeowners to 

renovate and maintain their homes at a reasonable cost, and they 

enable small to mid-size contractors to grow their businesses. We 

urge policymakers to consider the positive impact of the current tax 

rate on businesses, communities, and the nation’s economic health. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mrs. Dewalt follows:] 


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Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

Mrs. Curry, you are recognized. 

STATEMENT OF SARAH CURRY, MOTHER, GLENWOOD, IOWA, 

AND RESEARCH DIRECTOR, IOWANS FOR TAX RELIEF FOUNDATION 

Mrs. CURRY. Thank you, Chairman Smith and members of the 

committee, for giving me the opportunity to comment here today on 

how the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act has impacted me and my family. 

My name is Sarah Curry. I am a wife and a mother to my three 

boys, Phillip, who is six, Isaac, who is four, and Benjamin, who is 

two. 

My family lives in rural southwest Iowa on approximately 10 

acres. You have to drive down about 3 miles of a gravel road to get 

to my home. My husband works as a radiation oncology nurse at 

the nearby hospital, and I am a research director for a nonprofit 

here in Des Moines. 

With three boys and two working parents, our family benefited 

immediately from many of the policies included in the TCJA. At 

the top of the list is the expansion of the Child Tax Credit. For my 

sons, keeping more of our earnings helped us with the needs that 

all parents have for babies and toddlers. However, the tax credit 

has been especially significant for my family when Isaac arrived, 

because he was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. The cost 

of Isaac’s medical appointments and therapists is a large financial 

burden on my family, so we redirect every dollar that otherwise 

would go to taxes to his therapies. 

Another benefit my family has appreciated is the increased 

standard deduction. Expanding the standard deduction and limiting major itemized deductions simplified our tax filing process, 

and it has helped us as a family make decisions based on our lives 

rather than the tax rules. 

A third provision of the TCJA that helped my family is the 

change in the marginal tax rates. Over the years, my husband and 

I have worked hard, earning additional degrees, certifications, and 

receiving promotions to grow in our careers, and as a result, our 

taxable income has increased. Within the TCJA we saw immediate 

savings. If these reduced marginal tax rates were to sunset, our 

family would see an immediate tax increase, and that would directly impact our family budget and the resources we have for our 

children. 

That is the personal side of my testimony. But given my background in public finance, I also want to give you my professional 

perspective on the impact TCJA will have on Iowa families. 

Iowa’s tax structure draws upon the Federal Code as a starting 

point for calculating our state income taxes, and so the TCJA has 

ramifications for us on that side as well. Our state once had nine 

income tax brackets with a top rate of 8.98 percent, but starting 

next year, we will have a flat tax and a rate of 3.8 percent. Statelevel policymakers have worked to reduce the tax burdens on 

Iowans, but a sunset of the TCJA would erode some of those tax 

savings. 

In 2018, state lawmakers conformed our state tax policy to many 

of the TCJA provisions, so a sunset of the Federal tax policies will 


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present a problem. Iowa will have to figure out how to maintain 

a less complex tax system for Iowans that does not result in a tax 

increase while still conforming to federal tax policy. 

As a policy expert and, more importantly, as a mom, I can testify 

that the increased tax liability would hurt my family and many 

others, both at the federal and state level. My family’s tax burden 

directly affects the amount of income my husband and I can spend 

on our three young children and the pressure on us to spend time 

away from them working. Having a child with special needs makes 

us especially sensitive. 

As Iowans, we feel like lawmakers in our state have worked hard 

for us to keep more of our income, by lowering the top rates and 

simplifying our tax structure. As an American, I ask you to look 

to Iowa and the other states that have enacted similar reforms in 

response to the request of families across America for lower taxes. 

Thank you for your time and the consideration of my testimony 

today. 

[The statement of Mrs. Curry follows:] 


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Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

Ms. Riessen, you are now recognized. 

STATEMENT OF JOLENE RIESSEN, FARMER, IDA GROVE, IOWA, 

AND PRESIDENT, IOWA CORN 

Ms. RIESSEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to Iowa. 

I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today and to commend you for holding this important hearing on tax implications 

that impact family farms across Iowa and the rest of the United 

States. 

My name is Jolene Riessen. I am a farmer and current president 

of the Iowa Corn Growers Association that has a membership of 

over 7,500 farmers and agribusiness associates. My organization 

takes its direction from our grassroots memberships, and by allowing me to speak today, you will be hearing their concerns through 

me, in addition to my own personal experiences for my crop and 

cattle operation in northwest Iowa. 

As a farmer, we are at a critical juncture. Currently, commodity 

prices will not cover the cost of production, let alone the extra moneys to be spent in the community, hurting our rural and national 

economies. A strong farm economy makes for a strong national 

economy. That is why a good tax policy is vital to keep family 

farms in business. 

Iowa Corn works in conjunction with the National Corn Growers 

Association, and together we were supportive of your negotiated 

tax package, H.R. 7024, the Tax Relief for American Families and 

Workers Act. And we appreciate your work on these important tax 

matters, like the bonus depreciation and Section 179 provisions. 

So every year, our Corn Growers Association conducts a member 

survey. We just got the results back. Over 90 percent of our members say that tax policy is number one to them, and we as an organization need to be focused on that. Tax policy is so important for 

our farmers to continue to thrive throughout the countryside. 

So next year, I will be eligible for Medicaid, which means entertaining thoughts about retiring and passing the family farm on to 

the next generation, or for me, my two boys. So I, as so many other 

farmers, are making plans for passing that farm down to the next 

generation, and changing tax provisions are a huge part of that estate planning process. 

So here are my thoughts to you to carry back to Washington. 

Number one, leave the estate tax rate at $13.6 million per person 

and adjust it for inflation annually. 

Number two, keep bonus depreciation, which allows us to not 

only modernize our equipment but allows us to farm more efficiently. 

And, number three, keep stepped-up basis, which allows us to 

transfer ownership of farmland and equipment, reducing capacity 

gains tax for our heirs. 

If these tax provisions change, it will be catastrophic for us and 

so many others who need their land and equipment to keep the 

farm operational. 

So let me just use my farm as an example. If the current estate 

tax rate stays at 13.6, I will be able to successfully pass my ground 

and equipment to my boys, without placing them in a tax liability 


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position. However, if the current level is reduced back to $6 million, here is what is going to happen. My boys will either have to 

sell all the equipment and 70 acres or they are going to have to 

sell 275 acres of land and be able to keep the equipment. 

Both choices, in my book, are unacceptable, since selling 275 

acres of ground would mean that over half of the land that they 

stand to inherit is going to be gone and, for me, it will be destroying what their dad and I worked so hard to build. 

So our story is more common than not. Currently, 97 percent of 

farms are family-owned in the United States, so you will be decimating what helped build the strong American farm economies we 

know today. With the possible sale of the land to pay the estate 

tax, chances are it is going to be a larger farmer that buys that 

ground, not a beginning or a small farmer, which would add to the 

vertical integration that is already going on in the countryside. 

Plus, now let’s add the taxes of the sale of that land and/or 

equipment and then let’s go to town and try and find a local lender 

to set up financing to be able to buy that equipment, to be able to 

buy that land back. And if successful, interest rates are going to 

be incredibly high just due to the riskiness of that loan. 

Couple that with the depressed farming commodity prices that 

we have today—and, oh, by the way, corn is down another 6 cents 

today—will make it next to impossible to service that amount of 

tax debt, so basically destroying any chance of my sons continuing 

to farm the operation that has been in our family for close to 100 

years. 

I know this is a lot to think about, but I want to leave you with 

this: The current tax provisions are essential to preserving family 

farms and farming throughout the United States. Protecting these 

policies is key to ensuring that we can pass our farms on to the 

next generation, because when we protect farming and farms, we 

protect our communities, we protect our food, and we protect our 

fuel, all things that have and will keep our country strong and 

keep the United States the envy of other nations. 

Thank you for this opportunity to provide this testimony today. 

And I do have one final request, and I know this is a big ask, 

but please, please, please, pass a farm bill this year. My dad—— 

[Applause.] 

Ms. RIESSEN. So I come from a family of six kids and, needless 

to say, we fought a lot, and my dad would always say, You got to 

work along, you got to get along. My dad is 90 years old. He still 

farms. 

So I want you to take that advice back to D.C.: You got to work 

along and you got to get along. And I would certainly hope that we 

see some promise in getting that farm bill passed. 

And one more thing. You have a keychain there by you. You folks 

are the key to getting this farm bill passed, to getting these tax 

policies back on the farm for us. So please, I know that is kind of 

a corny gift, but it is so important the things that you folks will 

do for us out there. 

So thank you so much. 

[The statement of Ms. Riessen follows:] 


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Chairman SMITH. Thank you. Amen to that. Let’s pass that 

farm bill. 

Mr. Sukup, you are recognized. 

STATEMENT OF STEVE SUKUP, PRESIDENT AND CEO, SUKUP 

MANUFACTURING CO. 

Mr. SUKUP. Thank you. 

Good morning, Chairman Smith, and all to the distinguished 

members joining us. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today at this important hearing. It is a special time in our 

community, and we are grateful to host you. 

My name is Steve Sukup. I am president and CEO of Sukup 

Manufacturing. We are located just south of Interstate 35 in Sheffield, Iowa. And I am proud to say that we are the largest family 

owned and operated manufacturer of grain storage, drying, and 

equipment. 

For over 60 years, Sukup has been a critical part of the U.S. food 

supply. We sell in every state represented here, throughout the 

Midwest and from California to New York. Our company is located 

in Congressman Feenstra’s district, and I would like to thank him 

for being here today and our entire Iowa delegation. 

The tax reform bill of 2017 was a shot in the arm for manufacturers across our sector. Sukup has grown over the past decades, 

but nothing compares to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act when it was 

signed into law. For example, thanks to lowering the corporate tax 

rate to 21 percent, Sukup grew our workforce by a third, adding 

200 well-paying manufacturing jobs in our community. 

The key to Sukup’s success has not only been our culture but our 

dedication to creating and pushing our industry forward. Sukup 

has held over 100 U.S. patents. We are pioneering ways to make 

grain storage and drying more safe, profitable, and efficient for 

farmers and ranchers across the country. This is largely made possible by massive investments in research and development. 

In the years following tax reform, Sukup increased our R&D investment by several million dollars, with 95 percent of that money 

going towards engineering and staff wages, bringing well-paying 

jobs to Iowa. 

One of these critical R&D investments is our safety homes. When 

a catastrophic earthquake struck Haiti in 2010, a Sukup safety 

manager wanted to develop an efficient, quickly assembled home 

from one of our grain bins to provide relief. I encouraged him to 

build a prototype. And today, our safety homes as you can see here 

on the fairgrounds today are changing lives worldwide. 

We also developed the world’s largest 2.2 million bushel bin for 

ethanol plants. That is big enough to house a Boeing 767. But, yes, 

the landing is difficult, even for you, Congressman Nunn. 

Unfortunately, after being part of our tax code for 70 years, the 

expiration of immediate R&D expensing has made it harder for us 

to invest in the technologies and products of the future. Congress 

should immediately reinstate the expensing of R&D so manufacturers like Sukup can continue to innovate. 

Following the passage of the 2017 tax law, Sukup went from 

roughly $5 million in capital spending to almost $15 million per 

year, thanks to the 100 percent accelerated depreciation. This alVerDate Sep 11 2014 03:28 Nov 25, 2024 Jkt 056529 PO 00000 Frm 00028 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A529.XXX A529

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lowed us to fund new equipment purchases and fulfill our mission 

of providing Sukup employees with reliable, safe, and efficient 

equipment. 

Unfortunately, full expensing began to expire in 2023. We believe 

that was a mistake, and it is common sense that our Tax Code 

should encourage investment that leads to growth. Many manufacturing teams, including our company, would benefit from seeing 

this provision restored, and Congress should do it immediately. 

An accountant once told me, if you don’t have some debt, that 

means you are not coming up with new ideas. Well, many manufacturers like us borrow moneys to finance essential long-term investments. Tax reform made it less expensive to take business loans 

which manufacturers use to invest and grow their operations. Unfortunately, this pro-growth standard expired in 2022 as well, making debt financing much more expensive. We are also counting on 

you to preserve tax reform sensible changes to the estate tax, so 

that we can ensure the third and fourth generations of Sukups can 

continue in our family business. 

Discussing tax policy before Congress is something of a tradition 

in our family. About 20 years ago, my father, Eugene Sukup, testified before the Senate Finance Committee, along with Warren 

Buffett. Since then, thanks to tax reform, we have had incredible 

growth streak in our business, and every one of our employees and 

customers has benefited. 

I urge you to keep that growing streak going. Maintaining the 21 

percent corporate rate, as well as the tax provisions I just described, are so important to manufacturers everywhere. Because of 

these policies, we have been able not only to maintain our business; 

to provide great living, health benefits, and soon expanded child 

care for our employees and in our community, even as we aid those 

in need around the globe. 

Again, thank you for being here today, and thank you for looking 

at ways to keep Sukup Manufacturing a rural Iowa success story. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Sukup follows:] 


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Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

Ms. Pol, you are now recognized. 

STATEMENT OF LANA POL, OWNER AND PRESIDENT, 

GEETINGS, INC. 

Ms. POL. Good morning, Chairman Smith, members of the 

House Committee on Ways and Means, and members of the Iowa 

delegation. My name is Lana Pol, and I own a number of small 

businesses here in Iowa. My businesses are Geetings, Incorporated, 

a local and regional trucking company; G.I. Warehouse Corporation, which specializes in commercial warehousing and logistics; 

Creative Inspiration, an embroidery, promotional, and customer 

fulfillment company; Mowbility Sales and Service, an outdoor 

power equipment, trailer, and small tractor dealer; and Odyssey 

Spas, which sells hot tubs and provides services for pools and spas. 

I thank you for this opportunity to discuss how tax policy impacts small businesses like mine here in the Midwest. 

Entrepreneurship runs deep in my family. My father, Delroy 

‘‘Wayne’’ Geetings, founded Geetings, Incorporated, in 1972 in 

Pella, Iowa. Three years later, he expanded his operations to nearby Knoxville with G.I. Warehouse Corporation. I joined his companies in 1975, and worked for many years with my family running 

these businesses. 

With the retirement of my brothers a few years ago, today I fully 

own these businesses and operate them with my children. My children share our family’s passion for entrepreneurism, and I own and 

operate Mowbility Sales and Services, Odyssey Spas, and Creative 

Inspirations with them. It is my hope that each of these businesses 

will pass on to future generations in our family. 

While each of my businesses has their own purposes and their 

own unique challenges, they have all directly benefited from the 

policies in the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, TCJA, aimed at growing small businesses, and they would each face challenges should 

these provisions expire. Today I would particularly like to focus on 

three provisions that are critical to our operations: the small business deduction, 199A, created under TCJA; the expansion of the 

bonus depreciation and small business expensing in TCJA; and the 

estate tax. 

Each of my businesses operate as a pass-through, that is, the 

business earnings flow through my individual tax returns. Like 

other pass-through companies, the small business deduction section, Section 199A, created in TCJA has provided multiple opportunities for me to reinvest and grow my businesses. 

Because of this deduction, I was able to give my employees the 

largest compensation increase that we have been able to provide in 

many years, which in turn has helped our efforts to retain employees, something that has not always been easy recently. 

Additionally, we were able to invest $2 million to build a nearly 

40,000 square foot expansion of G.I. Warehouse Corporation and 

expand our fleet of trucks at Geetings. 

Our businesses have also benefited from the expansion of the expensing provision in TCJA. Under TCJA, full expensing for equipment could be recognized in the year of purchase instead of having 

to amortize costs over additional years through depreciation. This 


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change allowed us to consistently add trucks and trailers to our 

fleet at Geetings, Incorporated. In fact, the first year of this expansion, we were able to purchase and immediately expense six new 

semi-trucks and, until recently, we have been able to continue this 

expansion. 

However, recently we have had to implement a freeze on purchasing any new equipment. This is due to the uncertainty of the 

tax provisions at the end of 2025 and because of the increased costs 

of equipment. In fact, in 2018, we purchased trucks for $158,000 

each. In 2022, the trucks cost $251,000 each. If these TCJA provisions were allowed to fully expire or otherwise be limited, it will 

create another hurdle to expanding our fleet in the future. 

Finally, like many family-owned businesses, the impact of the estate tax on a small business has become more real to me recently. 

My husband unexpectedly passed away earlier this year. At the 

time of passing, we were working on our estate planning, including 

succession planning for our family businesses. Each of my businesses is rooted in family operations. My hope for all of them is 

that they were not only passed on to my children but their children 

as well. 

While I agree with others that this tax should be eliminated entirely, if Congress does not at least act to preserve the expanded 

exemption of the estate tax under TCJA, it will be increasingly 

harder to pass family-owned businesses from generation to generation. 

If nothing else today, I want to stress to the committee that protecting small business is good for America. Small businesses are 

the foundation of the American economy. 

Without action, 30 million small businesses in the United States 

will be faced with a massive tax hike, which will hurt their ability 

to create jobs and give back to their communities. I urge Congress 

to act swiftly to provide small business with the certainty that they 

need to make these provisions permanent. 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to 

answering any questions. 

[The statement of Ms. Pol follows:] 


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Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

I want to thank each one of our witnesses. 

We will now move to the question-and-answer portion. 

Mrs. Curry, as a mother of three young boys, very young boys, 

you know as well as anyone the joys but also the challenges that 

can come with raising kids. One policy that I have long championed 

is the Child Tax Credit. This pro-working family tax policy was created, I like to point out, by a Republican Congress back in 1997, 

and strengthened by a Republican Congress in the 2017 Trump tax 

cuts. 

Where the Trump tax cuts are set to expire at the end of next year, the Child Tax Credit will be slashed in half, from $2,000 to 

$1,000. And as a parent, what would that mean to your family, and 

what more should Congress consider doing with the Child Tax 

Credit to make it even more helpful to families like yours? 

Mrs. CURRY. I mean, every dollar that my husband and I earn 

that we get to keep goes towards our children. Like I said, Isaac, 

he is in speech therapy, occupational therapy. We are waiting for 

behavioral therapy. It is all very, very expensive. Health insurance 

doesn’t cover everything. You know, Benjamin needed speech therapy because the little booger didn’t want to talk when he turned 

two. 

So it is just, you know, expenses like that. You know, the water 

heater goes out. The furnace went out right after Phillip was born. 

And so looking at when we file our taxes, it happened early spring, 

and in Iowa it is still very cold then. So that was actually a really 

reprieve. You know, I didn’t have to pay a whole lot extra in taxes. 

We got a little bit back, and it helped with that. 

So, you know, taxes affect my grocery bill. They affect my gas 

tank. They really, really do impact my kitchen table. 

So I would just ask, I mean, for nothing else, just keep it where it is at $2,000. An expansion would be very grateful, especially for 

those young children. Early intervention is new. It wasn’t around 

when I was young. And so those services do cost more money. So 

maybe expanding it more for younger children versus older children would be an option to help. But, really, reducing it by any 

amount would negatively impact my family, my children, and really, specifically, our ability to pay for services. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

Ms. Riessen, as a family farmer, you know how important it is 

that your farming equipment is up to date. It is about delivering 

the best product to your customers and about keeping your employees safe. I know how important it is to make sure your equipment 

and tools are up to date and helping you get the most out of your 

land to deliver goods to market faster, more efficiently, and in 

greater yields. But this investment comes at a tremendous cost, 

which is why Congress included the immediate 100 percent expensing for machines and equipment in the Trump tax cuts back in 

2017. However, that provision has already begun to phase out. It 

was 80 percent last year. It will be 60 percent this year, 40 percent 

next year, and then 20. 

What has been the impact and what will the future look like for 

family farms like yours if Congress does not address this critical 

piece of the tax code? 


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Ms. RIESSEN. So my first thought is, if you like to eat, you will 

help us with this. From my experience this spring, our combine last 

fall was having issues. We looked at it this spring. To fix it was 

going to be basically $80,000. The combine is worth $120,000. So 

guess what? We had to get a different combine. If I wanted a brand 

new one, which my boys thought should happen, that is $750,000, 

$750,000 for a 2025. I am, like, wow. That could buy me a tremendous retirement home. But I couldn’t do that to the boys. So, anyway, ended up buying a $450,000 one. And so, you know, 

when you buy that piece of equipment, you are expected to pay it 

off in three to seven years. That is usually what the finance is at, 

so those are pretty hefty bills that come to play. So being able to 

use that 100 percent depreciation, now it just freed up money so 

I can make those payments. You know, people have 20 years—20, 

30 years to buy a house. Nope. A piece of equipment that is worth 

more than what a house is I got to pay off in three to five years, 

three to maybe seven if you talk well to your banker. 

So by having that, it allows me to make improvements on my 

farm to which—okay. So I kind of liken it to a cell phone. How 

many have a flip phone or a bag phone anymore? We want new 

technology. We need new technology on our farms in order to continue to be competitive out there. And by being able to use this, 

we are staying in the ball game. 

Chairman SMITH. So, Mr. Sukup, we know that sound tax policy 

can help America’s businesses grow and innovate. We see the spirit 

of innovation every day from American manufacturers to our family farmers. America’s farmers are some of the best innovators in 

the world as they are consistently researching ways to get more out 

of their land for today and future generations of farmers. 

In the 2017 Trump tax cuts, it sparked an 18 percent increase 

in investment in research and development in this country. As a 

business owner, what impact did the 2017 tax cuts have on your 

decision-making, and what would the current lapse in the ability 

to immediately expense R&D investment have meant to your capabilities to invest, innovate, or grow? 

Mr. SUKUP. Well, going back to 2017, we then switched to 

where we were doing about $5 million a year in research and development. We then started increasing that. We went up to $15 million. And what that did was reinvest in machinery. We are manufacturing. So it is very heavy, capital-intensive equipment, but it 

provides our employees to be more safe and efficient and provide 

us to be able to put better products to our customers across the 

Midwest, across the world. 

And, also, with the lower tax rate, that was when we started a 

clinic, actually, in our manufacturing plant facility. Our third generation, my daughter, Emily, came up and said—worked with some 

of our H.R. folks and said our employees would really like this. 

Well, we reinvested into our employees. It has been a perfect fit for 

us for the clinic onsite. We are doing child care because that is so 

important to families throughout our community and for us to have 

them have a safe environment for their kids, but also to be able 

to come in and work at Sukup at the manufacturing jobs. 

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omy—you know how difficult it can be for Main Street businesses 

to compete with larger corporations who are taxed at a lower rate 

rather than as a so-called pass-through entity. 

Here in Iowa, pass-through businesses account for nearly half of 

all employment in the State. Across the U.S., 98 percent of our 

family farms, which account for more than 90 percent of our agriculture production, are also pass-through entities. 

What would it mean for your business if the 20 percent small 

business deduction that was included in the Trump tax cuts were 

to expire and you face an effective tax rate of over 43.4 percent 

while the company Mrs. Dewalt works for pays 21 percent? 

Ms. POL. That would be just devastating. You know, large companies also have so many other advantages that we don’t have. You 

know, they also have the ability to make more money than we do. 

So when we get hit with these large tax increases, and it is unfair 

for small businesses to have so much more than they do, so it takes 

that money out of our pocket, and it takes it so we can’t reinvest. 

We can’t give raises. We have to compete against large companies 

for our employees. And so it is not always as easy to pay the wages 

that they can, have the benefits that they can. So we have used 

that benefit to give the wages. And so if it gets taken away, I think 

it is going to be harder and harder for us to be able to compete. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

Mrs. Dewalt, during the Obama administration, prior to enactment of the 2017 Trump tax cuts, we saw over 25 major corporate 

inversions occur where businesses moved their headquarters and 

jobs overseas to fly the flag of another country. The Trump tax cuts 

made several changes to make it more competitive for U.S. businesses to be located and do business here in the United States. 

Can you talk specifically about some of those changes and how 

they can impact the decisions by U.S. businesses to keep their operations here in the U.S.? 

Mrs. DEWALT. Thank you for the question, Chairman Smith. 

So the corporate rate prior to TCJA was uncompetitive on a global scale. So the reduction certainly encourages businesses to invest 

in the U.S. So at The Home Depot we are predominantly domestic, 

and the reduction of the corporate tax rate to 21 percent enabled 

us to make significant investments: investments in wage of $2 billion, permanent investments in wage of $2 billion, enhancing our 

supply chain $1.2 billion, 18,000 jobs. 

So in our business decision-making, we factor in the corporate 

rate and other factors when we make all of our decisions about 

pricing, about wage, about expansion, and other investments. It is 

key to have a competitive 21 percent rate in the United States for 

companies like ours to continue this level of investment. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

I now recognize Mr. Feenstra. 

Mr. FEENSTRA. Thank you. 

And thank you again to all the witnesses. 

You know, you think about tax, and if you reduce tax, you give 

families, businesses more money to do different things. We just 

heard about that. What it also does, it increases revenue to our 

country. Yeah, it is a shocker. 


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In 2017, under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, we dramatically reduced taxes. And you know what happened? It grew our economy 

and we brought in record number of revenue. What does that do? 

That will help us reduce our debt, our $35 trillion debt, if we continue to grow. That is why I am so passionate about it. 

The other thing I am passionate about is tax inequity. There is 

a lot of tax inequity. One specific one is the death tax, estate tax. 

We got rid of it in the state of Iowa. I was a big proponent of that. 

But we haven’t got rid of it at the federal government level. 

I have 170-some Members that have signed on to my bill to rid 

of the death tax. It is a pilfer tax. Think about it this way: You 

collect all this land throughout your life. You die, and all of a sudden your family member has got to pay 42 percent tax on that 

land. Think about that, 42 percent. That is wrong in so many ways. 

So, Mr. Sukup, I want to ask you, you are talking about the third 

and fourth generation coming down the pipe. How will this affect 

you if you have to pay that 42 percent? 

Mr. SUKUP. We wouldn’t be able to pass it on. Right now, I am 

part of the second generation, my brother and I. Our third generation is in the office every day. We have six members of our third 

generation. They enjoy coming to Sheffield every day and working 

throughout the different jobs of our manufacturing. But to be able 

to pass it on, that would just be overwhelming and not possible. 

Mr. FEENSTRA. It would just be a killer, absolutely. And all of 

a sudden, that next generation is lost. 

Mr. SUKUP. And that family business closes or leaves the community. 

Mr. FEENSTRA. That is exactly right. And that happens to 

small businesses and our main streets day and day—day and time 

and time again. 

I want to talk about something else that is so important to Iowa. 

You think about, right now, over 50 percent of our crop, corn and 

soybeans, goes to biofuels. Every other row virtually goes to 

biofuels. 

Right now, if you look at our commodity prices, our corn is under 

$4. Our soybeans are under $10. Right? Now, we could export more 

or we could use more of it. How do you use more? You do it 

through biofuels, ethanol and biodiesel. To do that, we have got to 

grow our market through sustainable aviation fuels and other 

things. 

So I want to talk about 45Z. All right. This is a tax credit that 

can dramatically expand these markets and, in essence, put us on 

the same foothold as electric vehicles. Right now, we have a thumb 

on the scale for electric vehicles and not liquid fuels. This gives us 

an opportunity to compete. And if we don’t, we are going to probably see our commodity prices cut nearly in half again. 

Ms. Riessen, can you talk about this? 

Ms. RIESSEN. You bet. So that 45Z is going to be a game changer for us out there when it comes to the grain price, because with 

the 45Z the Nation and our domestic consumers are asking for low 

carbon. So one way of doing that is through carbon sequestration, 

and this 45Z helps ethanol plants get set up to be able to do that. 

So when we do that, my corn that goes to that ethanol plant now, 

I am not expecting to get a lot of corn—I mean, a lot of any tax 


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return back from that, but what it does is make markets, and it 

makes better prices. But the only way that is going to happen is 

if we specifically say that we use the corn that is produced domestically. Because at this point in time, our friends down in Brazil are 

importing their ethanol into Georgia to make sustainable aviation 

fuels, and my understanding is they will qualify for this tax cut, 

this 45Z. We can’t let that happen. I am sorry. I mean, I love all 

farmers, but not that much. 

Mr. FEENSTRA. We need to use domestic feedstock. We can’t 

use stock from around the world. 

Ms. RIESSEN. Right. And so in a recent study I just saw is, so for every dollar invested in that 45Z tax credit, it will return $4 

to $6 for every dollar invested. So I am like, you know what, I am 

sorry, I think this is a no-brainer, but you got to take it back to 

Congress and get that happening. 

Mr. FEENSTRA. Thank you for that. 

I just want to tell everybody, we have to remind ourselves that 

when our farmers are successful, our main streets are successful, 

our hospitals, our schools, everything is successful. And when our 

commodity prices are where they are at—and we are going to feel 

it this fall, all right—no one is going to buy a vehicle, a piece of 

equipment or a bin, whatever, that is why it is so important that 

we have 45Z and make sure we have that bill. 

Ms. RIESSEN. Right. 

Mr. FEENSTRA. I yield back. My time is up. 

Thank you. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

Mrs. Hinson is recognized. 

Mrs. HINSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to talk a little bit more about something that has already 

been discussed today, and that is the Child Tax Credit and the expansion of that under the 2017 Trump tax cuts. Doubled the tax 

credit, increased its refundability, and raised that income threshold. And all that does is it makes it so that more families, more 

hardworking Iowa families and American families can access that 

credit. 

So building on that foundation, I actually introduced a package 

of bills called the Providing for Life Act. It really prioritizes the 

needs of our families and ensures that they have the resources to 

thrive. It would expand the Child Tax Credit, include provisions for 

paid family leave, support for expecting parents and pregnancy 

centers, and it would specifically increase the refundable Child Tax 

Credit up to $3,500 for kids under the age of 18 and $4,500 for kids 

under the age of six, also expanding the credit to unborn babies 

during a woman’s pregnancy. 

So in addition to that, it would also make the adoption tax credit 

fully refundable. This would help people like my colleague, Mr. 

Nunn, over here who have taken it upon themselves to adopt children and expand their families. Kids deserve to have a loving, 

happy family, and this can help with that. 

So by broadening access to these benefits in the Tax Cuts and 

Jobs Act and then legislation like what I proposed, it would help 

to reduce child poverty. It would alleviate financial pressure on 

real working families who often face these unique challenges, such 


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as limited job opportunities, longer commutes, and higher costs for 

those essential services. 

So, Mrs. Curry, I just wanted to ask you, you know, when you 

hear about the expansions that I just talked about, even above and 

beyond the Child Tax Credit, would those resources, and having 

conversations with your neighbors in rural America, really help 

families like yours? 

Mrs. CURRY. Thank you for the question. 

Yes, the expansion of the Child Tax Credit would, without a 

doubt, help myself and my neighbors and others. You know, being 

a part of the autism community, I know a lot of families that are 

also struggling and constantly looking for support or different services. And they are not cheap, let me tell you, but, you know, they 

are our kids. You can’t say no. It is what they need to be fully functioning adults one day and to, you know, really just exist in society. 

So expanding that for young children, I think that is so valuable. 

I can’t tell you the number of doctors appointments we have gone 

to for a heart murmur or, you know, having to find a specialist pediatric ophthalmologist because we didn’t know, you know, if they 

were seeing well. And so all of those expenses, right, and parents 

are just trying to do the best job they can for their kids. And it is 

expensive, and it is getting more and more expensive. 

I can tell you, when I go to Sam’s Club to buy chicken nuggets 

and fruit for my kids, the price just keeps going up and up and up. 

And, you know, I buy milk three gallons at a time, and it is getting 

more and more expensive. 

So, again, expanding that Child Tax Credit would help families 

like mine and really help, like, our kitchen table. 

Mrs. HINSON. Yeah. I have a 13-year-old now, so we feel you 

on the personal level. I had no idea how much 13-year-old boys eat. 

It is really gross to watch them eat sometimes. But certainly feel 

that in my grocery bill, and I am sure, much like you, I see those 

expenses tack up, tack up, tack up and add up. 

So I want to move to domestic manufacturing because, obviously, 

that is such an important part of our rural economy here. And we 

have seen and heard already about the investments in businesses 

creating those jobs right here in rural America. And our foreign adversaries, like China, continue to ramp up their investment in 

work and research to gain control of our critical supply chains. So 

I think it has never been more important for Congress to really 

commit to pro-growth policies that help American leadership on the 

global stage. 

So getting to that investment, Mr. Sukup, as a business owner, 

can you speak to the importance of this tax policy that keeps us 

competitive not just here at home but on that world stage? Because 

you sell your equipment all over the world, so you see those impacts day to day. 

Mr. SUKUP. Yes. We export containers every week out of our 

company. It goes across the globe. Being able to have the—whether 

it is the depreciation or the lower tax rate lets us reinvest into our 

manufacturing. And I think over the last 4 years with COVID and 

everything, you have seen how important manufacturing and domestic manufacturing is. And so this Tax Cuts and Jobs Act is just 

critical for us to continue with that aggressive mode. 


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Mrs. HINSON. So if these cuts are allowed to expire—and you 

have talked about a lot of the growth you have experienced—that 

will mean some hard decision-making for you and your family? 

Mr. SUKUP. Yes. No, there would be some pullback. So far, our 

markets have stayed strong and, you know, we have added 200 

well-paying manufacturing jobs, and our intent is to keep everybody busy. 

Mrs. HINSON. Yeah. Well, you are certainly doing a great job of 

that. So thank so much for coming today. 

And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

It is great to have Dr. Miller-Meeks with us. We will recognize 

you for an opening statement and for your questions. 

Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. Thank you very much, Chairman Smith 

and the Ways and Means Committee, for holding this incredibly 

important hearing here today in the heartland of America in Iowa, 

at the greatest state fair in the country, the Iowa State Fair. 

And I also want to thank our five witnesses for taking the time 

to be here. You represent the best of America, real people facing 

real problems asking for real solutions. 

The 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act significantly transformed the 

American economy, fostering an environment that stimulated 

growth and improved the financial well-being of millions of Americans. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act provided much needed relief for 

families by lowering Federal tax rates across all income levels. As 

a result, low- and middle-income households experienced an increase in disposable income, enabling them to invest in their 

homes, save for education, and enhance their quality of life. 

Businesses of all sizes were also major beneficiaries of the TCJA. 

With lower tax rates, companies had more resources to invest in 

research and development, infrastructure, and workforce training. 

As companies reinvested in their operations, productivity increased, and wages rose for American earners. 

And as the chair of the Conservative Climate Caucus, Ms. 

Riessen, your comments on the equipment that you can buy, if you 

are concerned about climate, as our colleagues on the other side of 

the aisle who are not here today, you would want farmers to be 

able to invest in the most up-to-date equipment that leads to precision agriculture and less inputs. 

The 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act catalyzed a period of economic 

growth and opportunity for families, small businesses, and corporations alike. By lowering tax rates and encouraging investments, the 

TCJA not only enhanced financial security for millions of Americans but also positioned the United States economy for long-term 

success. 

In conclusion, the expiration of the 2017 Trump tax cuts would 

not only impose significant tax increases on middle-class families 

but also hinder economic growth and stability. It would disproportionately impact small businesses, lead to job losses, and diminish 

the competitive position of American companies in the global market, as Representative Hinson alluded to. 

As we look toward a future of economic recovery and growth at 

a time when commodity prices are low, at a time when the national 

debt is high, it is critical that Congress act to extend and protect 


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these vital tax policies, ensuring that American families, workers, 

and small businesses can thrive. The success of our economy, and 

indeed our nation, relies on a tax framework that promotes investment, encourages job creation, and promotes financial security for 

all Americans. 

Thank you. 

Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. Mrs. Curry, thank you for being here 

with us today. I understand that you had your first child back 

around the same time that the Child Tax Credit was doubled from 

$1,000 to $2,000 under the Trump tax cuts. And like Representative Hinson, I also have signed on to legislation that would extend 

the Child Tax Credit during pregnancy. 

As a mom of three here in Iowa, can you describe to us the impact that the child care tax credit after 2017 had on you and your 

family? 

Mrs. CURRY. Yes. The impact the Child Tax Credit had on me 

after the birth of my first son, in that first year, we had the smaller amount, and so we owed additional taxes when we filed. And so 

we definitely felt the pinch there, new parents and having additional taxes due. 

The following year was the first year in a long time we got a refund, and it was a welcome kind of breath of fresh air. We didn’t 

have to stress so much. 

So, yes, the expansion of the Child Tax Credit had an immediate 

impact, noticeable impact on my family. 

Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. Thank you. 

Unfortunately, that provision is set to expire at the end of 2025, 

which would cut the child care tax credit in half, impacting millions of working families across the country who depend on the 

Child Tax Credit to help support their children. And I think you 

have elucidated well what the impact would be, especially when 

you are commuting in rural Iowa to jobs. 

Ms. Pol, you are from my district, the beautiful city of Pella. 

Thank you for being here with us today. 

What are some of the challenges that you face running a small 

family-owned business here in Iowa? And what tax provisions have 

helped relieve some of those challenges? 

Ms. POL. I think our largest challenge is the low unemployment 

that is here in Iowa. To get qualified workers, we are constantly 

competing against large businesses, and we don’t always have the 

opportunity to be able to pay the same wages, have the same benefits that they do. 

So we were able to take the 20 percent deduction and give large 

raises to our employees. We added a few more benefits to them, 

and we also were able to add to our starting wage. So it allows us 

to be more competitive. And coming from Pella, Iowa, that has 

Pella Corporation, Vermeer Manufacturing, neighboring 3M in 

Knoxville, and Hormel, we compete against a lot of large businesses for a small area. 

Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. I think the Trump tax cuts, as you said, 

created the 20 percent small business deduction that benefited 

Main Street businesses such as yourself across America and in 

small communities. However, the Biden-Harris administration has 

all but said that they would let this provision expire after 2025, inVerDate Sep 11 2014 03:28 Nov 25, 2024 Jkt 056529 PO 00000 Frm 00049 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A529.XXX A529

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creasing Main Street’s effective rate to 43.4 percent. And I think 

as you indicated, in order for small businesses and entrepreneurs 

to exist in our country, which is the backbone of the American 

economy, we need to have those provisions in place. 

And can you talk to us a little bit more about the removal of the 

small business deduction, what it would mean for your family business? 

Ms. POL. Right now, especially with the economy the way it is 

and with inflation the way it is, we are getting hit from all sides, 

whether it is increases in equipment, increases in parts, increases 

in labor costs. Warehouses have gone up and almost doubled to buy 

and build a new warehouse at this point. So now we are getting 

increases also in the insurance costs for that because we do replacement costs on it. So every place that we look at we are getting 

increases. Property taxes. And by having this—if this increases too, 

we are going to have to look really, really hard at, you know, how 

we are going to be able to make it through the next while. 

Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. It is difficult when you are getting hit on 

all sides and your federal government isn’t helping to prevent it. 

Ms. Riessen, can you explain how the option of using bonus depreciation to modernize equipment has affected the productivity 

and efficiency of your farm and your ability to plan for future 

growth and expansion? 

Ms. RIESSEN. So my two boys who are currently farming with 

me—I lost my husband 5 years ago to cancer. And so this bonus 

depreciation, the death tax, stepped-up basis are all—I have lived 

it, and I am telling you right now that by losing that, you are decimating the next generation of farmers coming down the tubes. 

But to get to your depreciation part of it, by being able to upgrade equipment—so the combine I was talking to you about this 

year that, you know, would be great to live in if I could, but—anyway, so it is going to have the GPSing. It is going to have—it will 

have the ability to communicate with the other combine so that 

when it comes time for, say, you are in a super big field and you 

are not sure if you have got everything done, it will tell you where 

there are areas at that have to be farmed yet. So then instead of 

driving from one side of the farm to the other because you forgot 

a strip out there, it takes care of that. So I am saving fuel, and 

that is reducing my carbon emissions because the new equipment 

is way more effective as far as for, you know, the emissions part 

and the mapping, and the list goes on. 

So I say to me it is like, you know, am I going to use a bag phone 

out there to harvest or am I going to use the best iPhone possible 

in order to do my job as quickly and as efficiently as possible. 

Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. And very briefly, because I am over time, 

does that also apply to the 199A small business deduction—— 

Ms. RIESSEN. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. Thank you. I yield back. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

Mr. Nunn is recognized. 

Mr. NUNN. Thank you, Chairman Smith. 

Thank you again for the group for being here today and offering 

real Iowa common sense on how a tax policy not only helps grow 

an economy but helps everyday working families. 


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So, Mrs. Curry, as not only a fellow Iowan, but here in the district together, and of all the titles you have, with the family farm, 

working a nonprofit, leading advocacy for kids with autism, I think 

your best title is probably mom. And the reality is here, you know, 

you are reflective of 30 percent of Iowans who benefit from this tax 

credit. Look, almost half a million Iowans qualify for it, and it doubles their ability to have savings. 

I want to ask you, you know, when you got that tax credit, that 

money back in your pocket, did you go out and buy an Italian-made 

Ferrari? 

Mrs. CURRY. No. No, sir, I did not. 

Mr. NUNN. Did you hostilely take over a foreign entity, build it 

offshore? 

Mrs. CURRY. No. 

Mr. NUNN. What did you do with your tax credit, because you 

are reflective of a working-class family, to be able to help your 

kids? 

Mrs. CURRY. We paid our speech therapist, and we took Isaac 

to a specialist eye doctor, and we bought a new water heater that 

spring. 

Mr. NUNN. Mr. Chairman, that is a real investment back in our 

economy here. Most important, it is a real investment in our families’ and our kids’ future. That is exactly what this tax credit is 

meant to do, and it is so very important that we continue to extend 

it into the future. 

It is one of the reasons I am proud to be leading the Keeping Siblings Act together as parents, also as a foster dad, which I share 

with Mr. Smith here on the committee as well, and as foster parents, being able to help those generation of kids be successful, 

hugely important for our future. 

Thank you, Mrs. Curry, for everything you do. 

Ms. Pol, I want to talk with you as well. Look, you are a small 

business owner. Iowa is home to over 270,000 small businesses. In 

fact, here in Iowa, we have an outsized voice. Ninety-nine percent 

of businesses in Iowa are identified as small businesses. Being able 

to really help make this up is huge. 

Now, if these tax credits expire, 92 percent of Main Street businesses in Iowa would experience a 43 percent-plus tax increase. I 

think it is fair to say that would decimate a lot of our small towns 

and communities, not just here in Iowa, across the country. 

Would you be able to keep your supply chain going if you had 

tax increases like this levied on your door instantaneously? 

Ms. POL. I think it is going to be tough. You know, I am scared 

what is going to happen if it does expire, because I have seen small 

businesses already closing in Iowa, you know, especially in the restaurant industry, unfortunately. And with everything that is happening and the cost of everything, with inflation, we are getting hit 

so hard the way it is, and then if we are going to be paying these 

kind of increases—we have had a really rough two years across the 

board with my businesses, so we are already hurting. So with this 

happening, it could be devastating to us and across the board for 

Iowa and the United States. 

Mr. NUNN. And, Ms. Pol, I think you are absolutely right here. 

You talk about rippling effects. An increase in your trucking busiVerDate Sep 11 2014 03:28 Nov 25, 2024 Jkt 056529 PO 00000 Frm 00051 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A529.XXX A529

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ness means an increase for everyone in America with a supply 

chain that costs a lot more if you are paying more taxes. 

Tell me the opposite. If we are able to extend the tax cut, how 

does that help out bringing down prices for every American? 

Ms. POL. Well, that is great because we can continue to invest, 

you know, and we do. You know, the money doesn’t come back into 

our pockets. 

Mr. NUNN. That is right. 

Ms. POL. You know, as small business owners, we reinvest. We 

reinvest in the communities. We reinvest in our employees. And 

that is the thing we will continue to do. 

Mr. NUNN. Well, and that is one of the reasons I am proud to 

support the Main Street Tax Certainty Act. It is one of the things 

we have done to make this permanent so you have permanency in 

your reinvestment here in our communities and growing across the 

country. 

Ms. Riessen—I should just call you Farmer Riessen. You know, 

you have been working with us so hard to highlight the success of 

an investment in America’s ag, America’s energy, America’s national security. You are a practitioner in this. 

Look, the 2017 tax cuts offered us an explosive growth opportunity for reinvestment. It also increased U.S. investment by 20 

percent and provided a crucial death tax exemption, something 

that we want to make sure we see increased. 

Talk to me about how your family farm is investing in these new 

innovations. Things like sustainable aviation fuel, 45Z tax credit, 

it is helping us grow our domestic energy production. Are these tax 

credits really the innovation of the future that you are using on the 

farm? 

Ms. RIESSEN. Oh, holy cow, I can’t believe you are even asking 

me that. For me, that is a no-brainer. I mean, as a farmer, when 

I am getting tax breaks to help invest in markets and to invest in 

trade, when I have trade, I have security in my market. I have better markets because more people are competing for what I am 

growing. So, you know, just thinking as a farmer, so every dollar 

I spend in the community now it gets rolled six times, so—— 

Mr. NUNN. Yes, we agree with you. 

Ms. RIESSEN. So it is like—so the people that I touch with what 

I am doing for, you know, the farming sector of it, it is huge. So 

just know that any money that—you know, everybody likes less 

tax, and so any money that we do manage to save gets invested 

right back into equipment or maintenance or whatever else happens to come up. You know, we have livestock and so—— 

Mr. NUNN [continuing]. That is right. 

Ms. RIESSEN [continuing]. We have way more equipment, probably, than anybody else does in the countryside, but—— 

Mr. NUNN. Thank you, Ms. Riessen. 

Ms. RIESSEN. So thank you. 

Mr. NUNN. These are not just tax credits. These are tax investments. As you say, every dollar invested is multiple dollars returned. 

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield my time. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

Mr. Smith is recognized. 


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Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you to our entire panel and everyone participating here 

today. It is great to see the entire Iowa delegation here. It doesn’t 

surprise me because they show up, and it is great to work together 

on things like biofuels where we can stick together. I happen to be 

from Nebraska, where we have a few biofuels and other similar industries in Nebraska. But we work together, and I think that is important. And we take from you your perspectives and apply them. 

And I am grateful to have been a part of passing the original Tax 

Cuts and Jobs Act and the work and the diligence that went into 

that when we happened to have votes in 2017. We started working 

on that long before we had the votes, and I think it is important 

to note that the diligence we are doing right now this very moment, 

thanks to our chairman here scheduling meetings, gatherings such 

as this, is hearing from you as we move forward. 

Now, I think it is important to note that TCJA is a very successful tool for growing our economy. I am glad we did that before 

COVID and the disruption in supply chains and various dynamics. 

I am also grateful when we can hear from a company that pays 

more in taxes than they did before and they are happy about it because they have the ability to pay that. And that might be a company, that might be individuals as well. But I think it is our job 

to hear from you and to dig down, to look for those details so that 

we can, hopefully, help form the future for more opportunity for future generations and pay down this debt that our country has accumulated. 

And so, you know, in the runup to 2017 tax reform, it is important to note that even Barack Obama realized we were not competitive on the corporate side. We were losing—as the chairman 

pointed out, we were losing American companies, strong American 

companies to relocation to other tax jurisdiction because it was 

more favorable. A very logical move, by the way. And even Barack 

Obama, like I said, noticed that we needed to be more competitive. 

And now he endorsed a lower corporate rate, and we wanted to 

be very certain that we would be very competitive, and that is why 

we chose the 21 percent rate as low as we possibly could and still 

have the resources for family credits and standard deduction—doubling the standard deduction, various components here. 

But I think it is very compelling when we hear from folks who 

are paying more in taxes now than they were before and they are 

happy about it, and it is instructive moving forward. 

But, Mrs. Dewalt, I guess it is only appropriate that you are with 

The Home Depot with a last name like Dewalt, right? 

Mrs. DEWALT. Coincidence. 

Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. It is coincidence. No advertising there. 

Can you elaborate a little bit on, you know, the corporate rate— 

which happens to be paid by some small corporations too, by the 

way. It is not just large corporations. But I am glad that you have 

the footprint that you do. I would imagine some younger folks 

showing cattle out here at the State Fair probably paid your stores 

a few visits over time. 

But can you elaborate on what you did with that 21 percent rate, 

you know, those differences? You spoke a little bit about it in your 


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opening, but can you tell us with even more detail how you handled 

that 21 percent rate? 

Mrs. DEWALT. Sure. So as I mentioned, our business model has 

a number of inputs, factors that we consider in investing. And so 

the decrease in the corporate rate that was 35 down to 21 created 

an opportunity for us to really focus, double-down on investing in 

our business. And we did so with our supply chain expansion, 

which increased our footprint, created jobs, and helps us to better 

serve our customers. 

We also took care of our associates, which is one of our core values at Home Depot. So we increased wages by a billion dollars, permanent wage increase in 2021, and then a second billion dollar 

wage increase announced last year. Those are permanent, not bonuses, but wage increases. 

We also just completed an acquisition of SRS Distribution, which 

is a wholesale distributor of building materials, primarily roofing, 

and that is really going to accelerate how we serve our pro customers. 

And so small businesses are essential partners to The Home 

Depot. So they serve us as suppliers. I talked about the 80 suppliers, you know, here in this State. And they also make up a large 

portion of our pro customers, which is a very big part of our business, and it is growing. And our ability to be competitive with 

price, to have the materials when and where the pro customer 

needs them is really helping them better manage their businesses 

as well. And so we see the business community, corporate and 

small business, as the ecosystem that drives the economy. 

Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. Very good. Thank you. 

I wish I had more time because I have a lot more questions. But 

thank you again for being here, very appropriate topic in an appropriate place. 

Thank you. 

Chairman SMITH. Mr. Schweikert. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And I appreciate, you know, being someone—I am from the 

desert. I am from a place called Scottsdale, and I saw more green 

in the bus ride here than I think I have seen in my entire State. 

And they were complaining it was hot yesterday. I am going, it is 

116 at home. 

We have some real difficult decisions we have to work through 

over the next year. The fact of the matter is today, 100 percent of 

defense of the United States is borrowed money. One hundred percent of government, as you know it, is borrowed money, all—Park 

Service, everything is all borrowed. And about—I was just doing 

the math—37 percent of Medicare is on borrowed money. This year, 

our income taxes, 45 percent of it will just pay the interest. Interest is now the second biggest spend in the United States. 

We need you to grow like crazy, and then we need to find a number of things where we are going to stop spending or do it better, 

faster, cheaper, adopt technology. And there is technology to crash 

the price of healthcare, because healthcare is the primary driver of 

U.S. debt. 

And, Mr. Sukup, you actually hit a couple of things that I really 

wish we would understand: the investment in research and develVerDate Sep 11 2014 03:28 Nov 25, 2024 Jkt 056529 PO 00000 Frm 00054 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6602 E:\HR\OC\A529.XXX A529

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opment, the ability to expense a piece of equipment so you do it 

better, faster, and safer. You are one of the few people I have ever 

had use that word, ‘‘safer.’’ 

Tell me your experience of, in those years where you had that expensing and the R&D credits—which is just a depreciation. It is 

not a tax cut. It would just move up the depreciation—how did it 

change your business? 

Mr. SUKUP. Well, we were able to incentivize our engineers, 

staff. We hired individuals to reinvest, research and development, 

take a look at what we could do better and faster, more efficiently 

for products for our farmers and ranchers across the country. We 

take that research and development, put it into action, and then 

it provides us some predictability in the tax—— 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. But did you produce—in that investment in 

your research and development, did you come up with faster ways 

or better or safer pieces of equipment that sort of leaped your company forward in those couple of years that you had 100 percent of 

it? 

Mr. SUKUP. Yes. We have developed new grain dryers that we 

use across the country. We actually have some going into pistachios—— 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Forgive me for—you’ll later on explain what 

a grain dryer is? 

Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. Oh, yes. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Okay. 

Mr. SUKUP. We actually dry pistachios, California and Arizona. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Yes. 

Mr. SUKUP. And so we use those. And they are looking for high 

efficiency, to reduce the carbon outputs. We look at our carbon footprint. And so it is going to provide better products across the Midwest. We have to compete globally. We do that in manufacturing. 

When we invest capital equipment with the accelerated depreciation, what has to go along with the equipment? Skilled workers. 

We bring in skilled manufacturing jobs. And so we are able to grow 

and expand. 

Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Mrs. Dewalt, and so you are my reason the 

DeWalts were always on sale, right? I just noticed that last month. 

You have spoken of—and I couldn’t find it real quick how tax reform happens. There are a number of us on this committee that 

know it doesn’t just happen. It took years of calculating the money 

and trying to get the economic effects and what would maximize 

opportunity. And it turns out the tax receipts that came in afterwards were dramatically higher than we ever expected in our models. 

How much for Home Depot do you believe of that—moving to the 

21 percent rate, how much of it moved into wages, both in the 

raised wages and the new hires? Would you speculate to guess? 

Mrs. DEWALT. Thank you for the question. 

What I can say about wages is that, with the reduction of the 

rate to 21 percent, obviously we have more capital to invest. And 

so our wages have increased higher than wage inflation. So we 

have been able to stay ahead of our wage increases to our associates, and now our associates are at or above $15 an hour across 

our stores. 


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Chairman SCHWEIKERT. Thank you, Mrs. Dewalt. 

Mr. Chairman, I will try to find the study, but I had a study last 

year that showed, and I think—and I am doing it from memory— 

67 percent of the corporate tax cut went to wages. And with your 

permission, I would like to enter that into the record. 

And with that, I yield back. 

Chairman SMITH. So ordered. 

[The information follows:] 


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Chairman SMITH. Mr. LaHood. 

Mr. LAHOOD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to thank our witnesses for your valuable testimony today. 

I also want to thank our friends from Iowa for issuing us a visa 

to come to your state and be here and participate in the Iowa State 

Fair. What a great opportunity to be here. I actually went to college in Iowa for 4 years, and it is great to be back. First time at 

the Iowa State Fair, and so really, really grateful for the opportunity to be here with everybody. 

And my district is contiguous to Iowa. I share a border with Congresswoman Miller-Meeks and also with Ashley Hinson. My district 

is very similar to the districts here in Iowa, heavy ag district. It 

is the tenth largest ag district in the country in terms of corn and 

soybean production. I have eight ethanol plants that touch my district. We produce a lot of cattle and hogs in our district, and are 

very involved in the biofuels conversation too. And so it is great to 

be here. 

And I would just—as I listen to the witnesses here today and 

hear you articulate the benefits from TCJA, nobody can do it I 

think better than how you guys have done it, whether it is a large 

corporation, whether it is a working family, whether it is a small 

farming operation, a small business, medium-size business, and an 

entrepreneur. 

As you have articulated what TCJA has done for you, I think it 

is remarkable, and that is why we are doing these field hearings 

all across the country, to hear from regular people on what TCJA 

has done. And as you articulated those things, I thought about everything that we have done with TCJA: reduced taxes, put more 

money in the pockets of middle-class and lower-class citizens, created millions of new jobs, hired more people, moved 6 million people out of poverty when we passed TCJA. We repatriated almost 

$3 trillion back to the United States with TCJA. And the investment that we have seen in small and medium and large businesses 

has been immense across the country. 

And so as I think about TCJA, it may be, in my 8 years in Congress, the vote that we took on TCJA may be the most impactful 

vote that I have taken. And I am so grateful to hear you today articulate all of those things on why we need to be focused on this 

next year for the economy and for our citizenry. 

And I also think about the Biden-Harris administration. They 

chose to remain in D.C. and have proposed $7 trillion in tax hikes, 

where the Ways and Means Committee has been traveling across 

the country to hear firsthand about the challenges of working 

Americans who are currently facing to develop a roadmap to get 

our economy back to where it was immediately following TCJA in 

2017. 

For example, we have set up tax teams, through Chairman 

Smith, 10 different tax teams that are meeting and getting feedback from across the country. I happen to chair the American 

Workforce Tax Team, which is considering ways to better utilize 

the Tax Code by hiring and retainment of more workers, and all 

of us are a part of those tax teams. 

I have a number of questions, but I will start with you, Mr. 

Sukup. You mentioned in your testimony that following TCJA you 


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were able to significantly expand your business operation and hire 

more workers. Can you provide more details on how provisions 

from TCJA allowed you to hire and retain more workers? 

Mr. SUKUP. Well, the accelerated depreciation on research and 

development was just critical on that, that we could take that return on investment. We invested in wages and staff and engineering, provided better products. And our customers liked our products, and we added 200 manufacturing jobs. And with accelerated 

depreciation, we add capital equipment, we need skilled folks to 

run that, and so we added 200 individuals over this time period. 

Mr. LAHOOD. Excellent. 

I mentioned that I have a heavy ag district. And the potential 

economic growth around the biofuels industry is something, again, 

I have been very engaged in and spent a lot of time talking about. 

As we look to future tax policy proposals, can you comment on the 

specific pro-growth initiatives that can better support our farmers 

and biofuel producers? 

Mr. SUKUP. Well, it is one that, you know, I think Congressman 

Feenstra said about practically one out of every two rows of corn 

is going to biofuels. It provides us with energy self-sufficiency here 

in the U.S., which I think is just absolutely critical. And it can provide, going into like the 45Z, to give us more incentives to be—take 

less carbon out of our air. 

Mr. LAHOOD. Thank you. 

I yield back. 

Chairman SMITH. Mr. Estes. 

Mr. ESTES. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you for our witnesses for being here. It is so heartening to hear your stories, just because it tells about the success 

that has happened since TCJA was passed. And whether you are 

talking about research and development or depreciation or being 

able to go through estate planning or planning your lives or, you 

know, how you can actually help wages increase, as we have talked 

so much during this panel of all the benefits that came out of 

TCJA, it is so great to be here. We are out of the D.C. bubble, being 

able to talk to people. I call it the real world out here, away from 

the D.C. Beltway. 

You know, being here at the Iowa State Fair, it is, I know, a lot 

like the Kansas State Fair where people come for the rides and the 

food and entertainment. But I know also that people come because 

they want to learn more about what is going on in the agriculture 

arena, what kind of innovation and ideas that are out there. 

Of course, not to be competitive, but the Iowa State Fair did 

start 20 years before the Kansas State Fair did, and also I think 

maybe have better marketing folks. But the one excuse I will use 

is that the Iowa State Fair was started before Kansas was a state, 

so we couldn’t really call ours a state fair at that point in time. 

And, you know, while we are here, as we talk about all these innovations that Americans are known for and we learn more about 

what is going on in terms of how American agriculture feeds and 

fuels and provides clothing for people around the world, I know it 

is tough in the rural agriculture communities. I grew up on a family farm. In fact, my mom still lives on the farm that we have back 

in Kansas. And farmers have benefited for more than a century 


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with technological advances trying to help provide that food and 

the benefits for the world. 

Tax Cuts and Jobs Act recognizes how valuable that innovation 

was, and I know Americans have invented everything from air-conditioners to zippers, so innovation is strong and part of our way of 

life here. And we want to make sure we continue to encourage that. 

I am chairing the Innovation Tax Team as we go in and look at 

preparations for next year, and we want to make sure that we continue to have a tax code that actually provides and encourages our 

ability to create an event and come up with new ideas that actually 

make the world a better place. 

Mrs. Dewalt, there is no question that countries like China, 

which actually provides 10 times the tax credit of research and development now than the United States does, and they are starting 

to gain—actually, they have closed the gap on the United States in 

terms of the amount of research and development done there. Can 

you share your thoughts on what the United States needs to do to 

be a global leader in innovation? 

Mrs. DEWALT. Well, I think TCJA went a long way with the 

provisions that you mentioned, the expensing, R&D focused, bonus 

depreciation, lower tax rate, competitive—globally competitive tax 

rate. In The Home Depot’s view, it certainly has been the most 

impactful to us to encourage—to allow us to invest; not only to encourage but to allow us to invest further in the U.S. We are primarily U.S. We have 2,000 locations here in the U.S. that, you 

know, serve all communities, large and small. And so the ability to 

have a competitive rate in the United States, encouraging companies like ours to continue and to increase investments as we have, 

and to encourage companies, you know, other companies to invest 

and innovate in the U.S. 

So I would say that there are some incredibly powerful provisions 

in TCJA that encourage investment of all kinds in the U.S., innovation and otherwise. 

Mr. ESTES. Thank you for that. 

And as you noted, you know, the 21 percent is only a portion of 

the taxes you pay. That is the federal portion. And that, as you 

said in your remarks, that you pay 24 to 25 percent, which actually 

puts us slightly above the developed world in terms of the tax rate 

still, but it makes us competitive in terms of being able to do that. 

So we want to make sure that we continue to have the value out 

of that tax code that encourages businesses to be successful here. 

Even with the lower tax code—the tax rate at the federal level, 

we have seen corporate tax rates increase and tax revenue increase. We have seen the royalty tax increase by over $200 billion 

over the last 7 years, because more research and development, 

more intellectual property was based in the United States and that 

we were able to actually benefit from that as far as federal tax receipts as well. 

So I know I am out of time here, but I just want to thank all 

of you for being here, being able to talk about the positive aspects 

of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act on each of you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

Ms. Tenney is recognized. 


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Ms. TENNEY. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you to all the witnesses and everyone for being here. 

This is quite an incredible experience to be at the Iowa State Fair. 

And I am from Upstate New York, and we have—my district, the 

newly conceived 24th District, is actually the largest agricultural 

district in the Northeast, including the largest dairy district. So it 

is very different than New York City where my colleague, Nicole 

Malliotakis, lives. 

But Zach Nunn said, so you are basically the Iowa of New York. 

So, yeah, in a way we are. We have an incredible output with ag, 

and it is really important in our district. But I am also a small 

business owner, so I know what it is like to struggle to make payroll, to deal with taxes and all those things. 

And I also want to just—I mean, I think it is just incredible that 

you are all here with such a different perspective. Every one of you 

has a small business perspective, a large business perspective, the 

child care perspective. But you are all talking about the one thing 

that changed upstate New York in that we come from the highest 

taxed state is the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. It was incredible. I voted 

for it. And it was always this stunning, oh, my gosh, I can’t believe 

you are voting for that from New York. 

Most of the businesses, as Ms. Pol said, in our communities are 

driven by small business owners, including our farmers. And so we 

are just grateful to all of you for putting it in your words exactly 

what the catastrophic results could be if we don’t continue with 

these issues. 

But I wanted to just first start with Ms. Pol. And you are an 

NFIB member, as we are. My business is over 40 years as NFIB. 

They put out great data and great statistics and advocate well for 

our small business community because we don’t have some of the 

larger issues. But you talked about 199A, if it should expire. 

Could you tell me just briefly what the operational changes you 

would have to make in the business if that were to happen? 

Ms. POL. Well, currently I think what we would do is stop investing. You know, we wouldn’t be able to expense out the equipment. You know, we wouldn’t have the extra money to reinvest into 

our employees and anything else that we wanted to pursue. 

Ms. TENNEY. Well, when you stop investing, you are coasting, 

and that means you are going downhill. That means you are not 

preparing for the future. 

Thank you. 

And I just want to move a little bit to something a couple of you 

touched on, especially, Mr. Sukup, you talked about this, as well 

as Mrs. Dewalt. I raised my son as a single parent, but I also took 

care of my parents who were across the street with serious health 

conditions, and so I am part of that sandwich generation. And it 

was always a struggle to find daycare and for parents—both men 

and women. It depends on who stays home, but now it is a mixed 

opportunity. 

You know, we talked about like the—some of the things that we 

worked on. I worked on a bill called the PACE Act, and that is Promoting Affordable Childcare for Everyone, and giving employers 

the opportunity to invest. 


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And if you could just touch briefly on if it would help you to get 

an additional tax credit or benefit to help with child care facilities 

right on your properties. And maybe you could touch on that as 

well, Mrs. Dewalt. 

Mr. SUKUP. Well, right now we are in the process, we are hoping to open October 1, to put a 112-space child care facility right 

across the street from our company. Right now it looks like about 

40 of our employees will take advantage of that. And it is just critical to working families. You know, some of the families both are 

working, whether for us or down the road at Mason City or another 

community business. And, you know, if there are families that have 

two of them in child care, it is just, you know, astronomical. 

And then, again, that sort of ties into the estate tax. I don’t see 

that I would have really said, yes, let’s go do it. But the third generation, daughter Emily, comes to Sheffield every day, and she 

goes, this is important to families. Let’s do it. 

Ms. TENNEY. Yeah, I would have loved to have that child care 

option at my office. I had to take that risk of leaving my son somewhere and not knowing what he was going to be—he always survived somehow when I got back. But I know the fear of families. 

They want to stick together, especially these days. 

But I know, Mrs. Dewalt, you mentioned something on this same 

as the child care, but would an increase in a little bit more of a 

benefit for child care deductibility and also maybe dependent care 

deductibility for people like me and others who have a dependent 

child or family member, maybe a parent that they have to take 

care of, is that something that if we increase that benefit, would 

that be beneficial to your employees? 

Mrs. DEWALT. Thank you for the question. 

And certainly it most likely would benefit our associates. You 

know, benefits that support working families are very important to 

us. I mentioned, you know, the 400,000 associates we have. Most 

of those are front line in our stores, in our distribution centers. So 

certainly policies that support working families would benefit our 

associate population. 

Ms. TENNEY. Thank you. 

Well, I appreciate that. It is really incredible that you are all 

talk—these are really important issues. I just want to say one 

shout-out to one of the counties. I just went to the Wyoming County Fair in upstate New York. The county legislature—or the county 

supervisors do a wonderful thing. They actually hold a meeting, 

their August meeting at their county fair. And it is filled with all 

kinds of people out there to see their government in action. So 

shout-out to Becky Ryan, the supervisor. 

And thank you, Chairman Smith, for doing this out in Iowa. We 

appreciate it. 

Thanks. I yield back. 

Chairman SMITH. Thank you. 

Ms. Malliotakis, the other lady from New York. 

Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

We have traveled to many parts of the country hearing from people like you, and, you know, whether you are in Iowa, whether you 

are in my home State of New York, I mean, the reality is that the 

high inflation, the high interest rates, the anti-energy policies of 


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the Biden-Harris administration are crushing American families 

and American businesses. 

Sixty-six percent of Americans say they are living paycheck to 

paycheck. And if they think it is hard now, that is nothing compared to what it will be like if Democrats have their way and allow 

the provisions that we are discussing today from the Tax Cuts and 

Jobs Act enacted by President Trump, if they allow that to expire 

in 2025. 

Under TCJA, on average, Americans with less than 100k in income got an average of 16 percent in a tax cut. We saw the creation 

of millions of jobs, record low employment for African Americans, 

for Hispanics, for women, for veterans. We saw the middle-class 

wages across this country lifted, and we saw the doubling of the 

standard deduction, which was a major credit for working families, 

and also the doubling of the Child Tax Credit for working families, 

lifting six million Americans out of poverty. And important to New 

Yorkers, it got rid of the alternative minimum tax for millions of 

middle-class families. 

Last June, I introduced legislation to increase the standard deduction by an additional $2,000 for single filers and $4,000 for married couples. If it were law today, families would benefit with a 

$33,200 tax deduction in 2024. 

And while I want to increase it, sadly, Kamala Harris, the Democrats, they have said that they want to get rid of—they actually 

want to cut our deduction in half. They want to go back to what 

it was before we had this critical tax relief. 

So I will start with Sarah. As a family, what would the standard 

deduction being increased even further mean for a family like 

yours? 

Mrs. CURRY. Well, I think first and foremost—thank you for the 

question—reducing the standard deduction would negatively impact my family because it would raise my taxable income both at 

the federal and the state level. We experienced benefits from tax 

simplicity. I didn’t have to have receipts, you know, all over the 

floor trying to itemize all this stuff trying to save a buck. We were 

able to take the standard. 

But, again, Iowa and many states use the federal taxable income 

as the starting point for state taxes owed. And so with a reduction 

in the federal standard deduction, my state taxes will also go up. 

So I am not going to get hit once with this tax increase, I am going 

to get hit multiple times over. 

Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. That is right. And that is exactly why I 

wanted to see the standard deduction not only kept but enhanced 

to protect more middle-class families, because that is who really 

benefits from it. 

And with that said, the alternative minimum tax, do you have 

an opinion if that were to be added back? 

Mrs. CURRY. Again, you know, any tax that is brought back that 

is hurting American families and taking more of our earned money 

away from us so that we can’t spend it on our families and invest 

in our homes and our children is a bad thing. 

Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Well, that is exactly what, sadly, Kamala 

Harris and the Democrats have said they intend to do. $7 trillion 


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is what my colleague said in tax increases is what they are proposing. 

But I also—you know, I don’t have a farm in my district, but my 

constituents do eat, and they use energy. And so the Biden-Harris 

tax and energy policies have been crushing domestic energy production. It is driving up the cost of everything, I believe, right. 

So can you talk as farmers about how energy drives up the cost 

of food for the people I represent in New York and also maybe want 

to touch on some of the renewable energy sources that we can derive from both corn—and I did visit a facility where there was renewable natural gas from food waste, from cow manure, and I 

thought that was really interesting. It is cleaner. It is more efficient. It is more affordable than these, you know, EVs that they are 

trying to push us on through all these incentives that go to Communist China. 

Would you like to comment on that? 

Ms. RIESSEN. Absolutely. So just to—let’s talk about EVs for a 

moment. I know they are trying to do that to tractors. And let me 

tell you, that is definitely not going to work. It is going to increase 

the weight of that tractor by three to four times. It is going to increase the price of that tractor by that exact same amount. And 

then, oh, by the way, in the wintertime, 60 below, they don’t start. 

And getting back to your being able to use other—besides the 

biofuels, to use the methane, and just so you know, there is more 

landfill methane given off than any other source in the United 

States, so there is a place to tap. 

But when it comes to using the other fuels, first of all, right now 

the ethanol is available, and we can put it right into the gas tank. 

We are pushing for the Next Gen Fuels Act to be passed to increase 

those amounts of ethanol to be put in fuel tanks. So—and for every 

percent of—this is from the American Lung Association. So for 

every percent of ethanol that we are able to put into that fuel tank, 

we are also reducing our healthcare costs because we are taking 

particulates out of the air. 

So especially as I—and I have been to New York, and it is amazing, but it is not Iowa. But, anyway, just the total amount of particulates in the air just due to the pollution,. 

Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Okay. And, Mr. Sukup, I don’t know if you 

wanted to add to that. 

But I did have one small question after this, if you will, Mr. 

Chairman. 

Mr. SUKUP. No, the biofuels are critical for the—supplying us 

across the U.S., energy efficiency and self-sustainable here in the 

U.S., and that is why we have to increase. It lowers prices throughout. You know, going back 4 years, we were a dollar lower on gasoline, and yet ethanol was practical and making money. 

Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Now, I am a New Yorker, first time in Iowa, 

first time at the State Fair, so a last question, very important question, in my opinion, to wrap up the hearing here. What is the food 

that I should try today? 

Go down the line. Name one food, please. 

Ms. RIESSEN. Pork chop on a stick. 

Mrs. DEWALT. Well, I am smelling bacon right now, so whatever that smell is, try that. That smells great. 


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Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. All right. 

Mrs. Curry. 

Mrs. CURRY. The deep-fried pickle with the ranch dressing. 

Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. All right. 

Ms. RIESSEN. Sorry. Pork chop or a steak. 

Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Okay. You are the second person to tell me 

that. 

Mr. SUKUP. Corn dog. 

Ms. POL. The deep fat fried lobster on a stick. 

Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. All right. Thank you. 

Chairman SMITH. I want to thank the Iowa delegation for having us. I want to thank you, Congressman Feenstra, for being a 

stellar member of the Ways and Means Committee and for bringing 

us up here. I want to thank the Iowa State Fairgrounds. And I 

want to thank each and every one of you all for your great ideas 

and the policy solutions that hopefully we can move towards. I 

think that every member of this committee will be leaving the Iowa 

State Fair with additional great ideas on the Tax Code but also 

probably higher cholesterol. 

But with that, please be advised that members have 2 weeks to 

submit written questions to be answered later in writing. Those 

questions and your answers will be made part of the formal hearing record. 

And with that, the committee stands adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:56 a.m., Central, the committee was adjourned.] 


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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 097 here 56529A.097
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 098 here 56529A.098
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 099 here 56529A.099
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0100 here 56529A.100
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0101 here 56529A.101
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0102 here 56529A.102
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0103 here 56529A.103
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0104 here 56529A.104
(143) 

PUBLIC SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 


rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARING
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0105 here 56529A.105
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0106 here 56529A.106
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0107 here 56529A.107
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0108 here 56529A.108
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0109 here 56529A.109
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0110 here 56529A.110
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0111 here 56529A.111
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0112 here 56529A.112
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0113 here 56529A.113
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0114 here 56529A.114
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0115 here 56529A.115
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0116 here 56529A.116
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0117 here 56529A.117
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0118 here 56529A.118
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0119 here 56529A.119
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0120 here 56529A.120
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0121 here 56529A.121
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0122 here 56529A.122
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0123 here 56529A.123
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0124 here 56529A.124
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0125 here 56529A.125
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0126 here 56529A.126
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0127 here 56529A.127
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0128 here 56529A.128
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0129 here 56529A.129
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0130 here 56529A.130
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0131 here 56529A.131
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0132 here 56529A.132
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0133 here 56529A.133
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0134 here 56529A.134
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0135 here 56529A.135
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0136 here 56529A.136
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0137 here 56529A.137
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0138 here 56529A.138
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0139 here 56529A.139
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rfrederick on LAP8M3WLY3PROD with HEARINGInsert offset folio 0140 here 56529A.140