`[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                   THE TRANSITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM:
                      STEPS TO ENSURE SUCCESS FOR
                      SERVICEMEMBERS AS THEY ENTER
                             CIVILIAN LIFE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                        WEDNESDAY, MAY 17, 2023

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-15

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs





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                    Available via http://govinfo.gov


                               ______
                                 

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

52-537                    WASHINGTON : 2024













                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
  American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director


                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                 DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman

NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California Ranking 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida             Member
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
                                     DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.









                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                        WEDNESDAY, MAY 17, 2023

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman........................     1
The Honorable Mike Levin, Ranking Member.........................     3

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel 1

Mr. Alex Baird, Acting Director of the Defense Support Services 
  Center, Department of Defense..................................     5

Ms. Cheryl J. Rawls, Executive Director, Outreach, Transition and 
  Economic Development, Department of Veteran Affairs............     6

Ms. Margarita Devlin, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Department of 
  Labor..........................................................     7

Ms. Dawn Locke, Director, Strategic Studies, Government 
  Accountability Office..........................................     9

                                Panel 2

Ms. Brittany Dymond, Associate Director, National Security and 
  Foreign Affairs Directorate, Veterans of Foreign Wars..........    22

Mr. Michael Quinn, Chief Executive Officer, Hire Military & 
  Tenova LLC.....................................................    23

Dr. Abby Kinch, PhD, Chief of Staff, Student Veterans of America.    25

Mr. Jim Lorraine, President and CEO, America's Warrior 
  Partnership....................................................    27

Mr. Hernan Luis y Prado, Founder and CEO, Workshop for Warriors..    28

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Mr. Alex Baird Prepared Statement................................    39
Ms. Cheryl J. Rawls Prepared Statement...........................    41
Ms. Margarita Devlin Prepared Statement..........................    47
Ms. Dawn Locke Prepared Statement................................    54
Ms. Brittany Dymond Prepared Statement...........................    71
Mr. Michael Quinn Prepared Statement.............................    76
Dr. Abby Kinch, PhD Prepared Statement...........................    79
Mr. Jim Lorraine Prepared Statement..............................    83
Mr. Hernan Luis y Prado Prepared Statement.......................    86









 
                   THE TRANSITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM:
                      STEPS TO ENSURE SUCCESS FOR
                      SERVICEMEMBERS AS THEY ENTER
                             CIVILIAN LIFE

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, MAY 17, 2023

              U.S. House of Representatives
               Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity
                             Committee on Veterans' Affairs
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:02 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Derrick Van Orden 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Van Orden, Mace, Franklin, 
Ciscomani, Crane, Levin, Mrvan, Ramirez, and McGarvey.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN

    Mr. Van Orden. Is this the second? There we go, thank you. 
The subcommittee will come to order. I believe this is the 
second Veterans Administration Committee hearing that we have 
had since the renovation? I believe this is the fourth. I want 
to thank everybody for coming today. I want to thank our 
witnesses. It is great to see you for being here today to 
discuss the Transition Assistance Program (TAP) and the role 
that each department plays in helping service members take this 
monumental step in their lives. As you may know, I am a former 
Navy Seal. I did 26 years in the military. I have firsthand 
knowledge of the difficulties that can come with making the 
change from being an active-duty service member to a veteran.
    Over 200,000 military personnel leave the service each 
year. For many service members, this can be a time when they 
take on new challenges and hopefully build a promising new 
life. For others, this year-long process is filled with 
uncertainty and anxiety. Having had a job, a strong community, 
and a sense of purpose for many years, these service members 
must redefine who they are, and their new purpose will be the 
minute they step off their base or ship. That is when that 
starts.
    If they do not have a well-thought-out plan in place, they 
can find themselves without the necessities of life, income, 
food, shelter, and it can happen very, very quickly.
    As we learned in our field hearing in San Diego earlier 
this month, there is approximately 33,000 homeless veterans in 
the United States, and this simply should not happen. One 
homeless veteran is too many, and we owe these men and women 
who sacrifice so much for us more than that, especially when we 
think of veterans being thrown out of lodging to make room for 
illegal immigrants. Even though the Veterans Administration has 
assured us that they were not funding this program that is 
still shameful on all levels.
    I am committed to solving this problem and doing right by 
our veterans. This Transition Assistance Program is a big tool 
in our toolbox to help address this problem. Service members 
who have a job lined up after separation from the military or a 
clear path for their future are much less likely to experience 
homelessness. Service members who are aware and have already 
signed up for the benefits they are entitled to and understand 
how to access them are much less likely to end up in dire 
straits. Service members who have community or family support 
are less likely to end up in a state of mental distress and 
commit suicide. That is why this is my primary legislative 
agenda.
    The current TAP program, while well intended, is not 
meeting the needs of our service members. Too many of them are 
falling through the cracks, and we have got to do better by 
helping them build a concrete plan for their life after 
service.
    Oh, here you go. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the 
record a memo that we picked up in San Diego. It is called the 
R4-ST. That is a Readiness for Special Operations Transition 
Program. This is now an MF4-P11 program, which means it is a 
fully funded program through the Special Operations Command.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    In June 2019, this committee worked incredibly hard to 
modernize the transition assistance program under your 
leadership. Many of these proposals were thought during the 
hearing, much like the ones we are having today. However, what 
Congress intended and what the Department of Defense 
implemented ended up being wildly different. We are here again 
today with the same organizations in the room discussing an 
improved TAP, but also a program that is still not up to spec 
for our service members.
    While some veterans speak highly of TAP, we have heard many 
more veterans refer to the current TAP program as nothing more 
than a resume writing workshop. While having an up-to-date 
resume tool is an important tool for finding a job, there are 
so many other tools that we can build into TAP to ensure the 
transition progress is easier.
    We have heard of the successful SkillBridge program in 
helping transitioning service members connect with employment. 
We have heard of the need for more mental health counseling. We 
have heard of the need for more individualized training 
sessions. We have heard of the need for a warm handoff for 
service members that are at risk of being homeless and food 
insecure. We need to be creating more connections like these 
for our service members. We need to ensure that the transition 
process is started when it is legally required to ensure 
service members can take advantage of all the tools that are 
offered to them.
    It is my understanding that 70 percent of service members 
are not beginning this process a year in advance. Delaying the 
start of transition puts these service members at a distinct 
disadvantage. It is a disservice to those who have risked their 
lives for our wonderful country.
    Finally, we need to be building in more one-on-one 
counseling for transition. This should not be a check the box 
situation. It should be dedicated to helping each individual 
service member have the tools they need to successfully 
transition. We owe it to each and every one of them. I hope to 
hear from you today, our witnesses in the first panel about 
what has improved since 2019 and what continues to need work. 
It is important that all agencies, as well as Congress work 
together, especially on this issue. I also welcome the second 
panel later this afternoon and hope to hear about the 
improvements we can make to TAP from their perspective. As I 
said during my first hearing as chairman back in March, this 
subcommittee is not bipartisan. It is nonpartisan. This topic 
reflects that more than any other topic I believe that we 
handle every day. I now yield to the ranking member for his 
opening remarks.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF MIKE LEVIN, RANKING MEMBER

    Mr. Levin. I thank my friend the chairman and I thank him 
particularly for coming to visit our district recently. We had 
a great hearing out there. I want to thank our witnesses and 
our viewers. I want to thank all the capital staff that worked 
on this beautiful hearing room that we have been waiting a 
while to move back into.
    Today we are going to address a matter that is crucial to 
the well-being and success of our service members, the 
transition out of the military. It is my honor to advocate for 
the brave men and women in uniform. Today as we hear from our 
Federal partners and organizational leaders, I hope we can 
focus on two key issues that require immediate attention. 
First, the need for a personalized transition process and the 
necessity of granting our service members more time to prepare 
for civilian life.
    Each individual who serves in our armed forces has unique 
experiences, skills, and aspirations, every single service 
member. Each individual prepares to begin a civilian life in a 
wholly individual and unique way. Recognizing this, we have got 
to strive to create a transition process that is tailored to 
the specific needs of each service member. Put another way, a 
one size fits all approach simply does not suffice. It is 
crucial that we develop personalized plans that consider 
factors such as career goals, educational pursuits, physical 
health, mental health, and financial, and familial obligations.
    The reforms made in the Fiscal Year 2019 National Defense 
Authorization Act were a great start. However, as we are going 
to hear today, those reforms are still not fully implemented. I 
recognize that COVID-19 contributed to this by forcing TAP to 
pivot to a lot of remote programming. However, Department of 
Defense (DoD) began moving away from remote TAP over a year 
ago. Last week, as I think we all know, the President ended the 
public health emergency.
    As far as I am concerned, the time for excuses is over. We 
lost too much time already. Too many service members have 
missed the value of a full transition process. Look, if it is a 
matter of resources, let us know. That is why we are here. It 
is no secret that Congress has not met the Department of 
Labor's funding request for TAP staffing. That is true. Does 
DoD need more? What about VA?
    Our duty as legislators is to deliver resources to 
accomplish our shared goal, but we can only do so if our 
partners make us aware of what is needed. Today we look at how 
we achieve full implementation of current law, but we also look 
forward. We have got to look forward by discussing and working 
on the next improvements to TAP. That is why I have introduced 
the Tier Act. The Tier Act expands examination of a service 
member's needs during the TAP process to cover things like 
childcare requirements, spouse employment status, duty station 
location, service members operating tempo, and if the service 
member is a Native American, the eligibility for additional 
benefits. With these basic fixes to help prepare service 
members for transition, we can significantly improve the 
program.
    It is also vital that we recognize the limited timeframe 
currently allotted for in this critical period in a service 
member's life. Far too often, our brave men and women are 
rushed through this transition phase, resulting in unnecessary 
hardships and increased vulnerability. The numbers that 
Government Accountability Office (GAO) will present today are 
simply stunning. Too many veterans have been waved out of their 
two-day track, missed out on employment, and education 
information.
    Look, I am aware of the challenges that our commanders face 
in giving their unit members time to prepare for civilian life 
while balancing the vast responsibility of providing for our 
Nation's defense. I have heard those challenges firsthand, 
representing Camp Pendleton, for example. That is why we have 
got to have a serious conversation about how service branches 
handle force structure. It is unacceptable for a transitioning 
service member to be told they are irreplaceable and therefore 
can not attend a TAP class.
    It is our duty as a grateful Nation to provide our service 
members with the support and the time that they need to 
successfully transition into civilian life. By personalizing 
the transition process, by guaranteeing the time, we can 
empower our veterans to not only reintegrate into society, but 
also thrive in their post military careers, which is ultimately 
what we all want to see. With that, I will yield back to the 
chairman.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin. I will now 
introduce our witness panels. Our first witness is from the 
Department of Defense, Mr. Alex Baird, the Acting Director of 
Defense Support Services Center at the Department of Defense. 
Our next witness is Ms. Cheryl Rawls, the Executive Director of 
Outreach, Transition and Economic Development at the Department 
of Veterans Affairs. Our third witness is Ms. Margarita Devlin, 
the Deputy Assistant Secretary at the Department of Labor. Our 
final witness for this panel is Ms. Dawn Locke, the Director of 
Strategic Studies at the Government Accountability Office. I 
would ask the witnesses to please stand and raise your right 
hand.
    [Witnesses sworn]
    Thank you. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have 
answered in the affirmative. Please take your seats. Hey, so I 
am a retired Navy Seal Senior Chief. You are going to see a 
clock that is going to be in front of you. It is going to be 5 
minutes, and that is exactly how long you will be talking. I 
have read all of your written testimony, and it is fantastic in 
its entirety, but we want to keep this moving at a steady clip. 
Is that good? That is a deal right there. Mr. Baird, you are 
now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your testimony on 
behalf of the Department of Defense.

                    STATEMENT OF ALEX BAIRD

    Mr. Baird. Sir, I will start by telling you I was raised by 
a Marine, so I never go overtime. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking 
Member Levin, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, 
thank you for the opportunity to appear before this oversight 
hearing on the Transition Assistance Program, TAP. The 
Department is committed to supporting our warfighters and their 
families as they navigate the transition from military to 
civilian life.
    TAP is the essential foundation of that support and sets 
the conditions for successful transition. Each year, TAP 
provides approximately 200,000 service members with a common 
level of support, regardless of location, service, or 
component, at over 200 locations around the globe. The 
overarching result is that today's TAP provides service members 
more comprehensive transition preparation, information, 
support, and services than at any other time during our 
Nation's history. TAP provides broad ranging information, 
training, resources, and support that effectively prepare 
service members for success as they navigate through the 
challenges and opportunities presented during the transition 
from active duty to civilian life.
    This support enables and empowers service members to 
leverage their skills, knowledge, and abilities to reach their 
full potential, achieve individual post transition goals, and 
to continue serving our Nation as successful veterans who 
strengthen our communities. Since its inception in 1991, TAP 
has undergone sweeping changes. These changes have ensured that 
TAP is relevant, progressive, and ever improving to meet the 
needs of transitioning service members. The flexibility 
afforded by the current TAP design allows tailoring of the 
transition process to individual needs and goals, while 
ensuring that service members receive information and resources 
that best support individualized preparation for transition. 
The relevance of TAP focused on the preparation for civilian 
life ensures service member buy in and active participation in 
TAP. In short, TAP works.
    TAP works in large part because of the TAP interagency 
dynamic partnership, a best-in-class example of effective 
Federal agency collaboration and service delivery. The TAP 
interagency delivers TAP as an individualized, robust program 
with alternative pathways and multiple levels of assistance. 
Each step of the process is guided by TAP counselors trained in 
providing service members with--training service members, 
allowing them to be in control of their transition, and to 
utilize program resources and information that best fit their 
needs in line with their post transition goals.
    TAP is and must remain adaptive while ensuring programmatic 
focus on two fundamental and complementary tenets, effective 
counseling and service member buy in. Correspondingly, TAP will 
sustain emphasis on individualized approach that best meets the 
service members post traumatic--post transition goals. To that 
end, TAP will remain innovative, responsive, transparent, and 
collaborative. The Department, working with the service 
members, military services, interagency partners, 
nongovernmental entities, and Congress, will continuously 
improve transition service and support. Together, we will build 
upon current successes and achieve our ever-improving outcomes 
for all TAP eligible service members from all components.
    We will achieve this by providing agile, adaptive, and 
individualized support and services while addressing barriers 
that prevent successful transition to civilian life. In 
closing, Mr. Chairman, I thank you and the ranking member and 
the members of the subcommittee for your outstanding and 
continuing support of the men and women who proudly wear the 
uniform in defense of our great Nation.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Alex Baird Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Well done, sir. Thank you, Mr. Baird. The 
written statement of Mr. Baird will be entered into the hearing 
record. Ms. Rawls, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
deliver your testimony.

                   STATEMENT OF CHERYL RAWLS

    Ms. Rawls. Thank you very much. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking 
Member Levin, and the distinguished members of the 
subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you 
today to discuss the support the Department of Veterans Affairs 
provides to service members as they prepare to enter civilian 
life and beyond. I want to express my appreciation for your 
continued support of VA's mission to care for those who have 
served in our Nation's military and for their families, 
caregivers, and survivors.
    Support for transitioning service members is an interagency 
effort between Department of Defense, Department of labor, the 
Small Business Administration, and other agencies. In 2019, the 
interagency partners approved the Military to Civilian Ready 
Pathway, a six-step framework encompassing holistic programs 
and services provided by Federal interagency partners, veteran 
service organizations, VA State directors, and local community 
resources.
    Also in 2019, the John S. McCain National Defense 
Authorization Act required service members to begin the 
Transition Assistance Program no later than 365 days prior to 
separation and as soon as possible in the 24 months prior to 
retirement. The VA One-Day Benefits and Services course is 
provided during TAP and orients the 200,000 transitioning 
service members annually to all VA benefits and services. 
Additionally, VA provides military lifecycle modules and 
opportunities to meet individually with benefits advisors.
    Through human-centered design and survey results, we 
identified additional special emphasis areas for future 
military lifecycle modules, including LGBTQ-plus, minority, 
rural, military sexual trauma, National Guard, and Reserve 
component. VA continues to offer the Women's Health Transition 
Training course, which is an online course that emphasizes 
women veterans' specific needs.
    VA acknowledges the first year of transition out of the 
military may pose significant challenges. It is with this 
thought in mind that VA created the VA Solid Start program that 
connects with recently separated veterans at three critical 
points after transitioning 90, 180, and 365 days during the 
first year. In Fiscal Year 2022, VA Solid Start successfully 
connected with over 175,000 recently separated veterans.
    VA frequently assesses the need for changes and 
opportunities for growth. We use stakeholder engagements like 
the VA Transition Forum and the Military to Civilian Transition 
Summit to bring VA, public, and private stakeholders together 
to learn more about transition programs and ways to better 
coordinate transition services while strengthening community 
relationships. In Fiscal Year 2022, VA partnered with the DoD 
and Department of Labor (DOL) in a human-centered design 
project designed to better understand the experiential needs 
and desires of transitioning service members, recently 
separated veterans, and their families for navigating military 
transition. The results of this research are and will be used 
to enhance transition. There is a need for increased 
collaboration with veteran service organizations, and state 
departments, better data sharing opportunities, and increased 
spousal and family engagement. VA continues working toward 
making improvements in these areas by removing barriers and 
developing communication tools for spouses.
    In conclusion, legislation has enabled VA and our 
interagency partners to become a robust transition program with 
alternate pathways and multiple levels of assistance, allowing 
service members to utilize the programs, resources, and 
information that fits their needs aligned with their post 
transition goals. However, VA recognizes the need for 
continuous improvement and remains dedicated to strengthening 
military to civilian transition outcomes. Chairman Van Orden, 
Ranking Member Levin, this concludes my testimony, and I am 
happy to respond to any questions you or the subcommittee may 
have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Cheryl Rawls Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Rawls. Yes, Ms. Rawls' 
testimony will be entered into the record. Ms. Devlin, you are 
now recognized for 5 minutes.

                 STATEMENT OF MARGARITA DEVLIN

    Ms. Devlin. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, thank 
you for this opportunity to testify about the Transition 
Assistance Program and what Department of Labor Veterans' 
Employment and Training Services (DOL VETS) is doing to 
transform and modernize it. I have spent my entire Federal 
career working with veterans and serving veterans. This is my 
passion, so I am really happy to be here.
    VETS' mission is to prepare America's veterans, service 
members and military spouses for meaningful careers, provide 
them with employment resources, protect their employment 
rights, and promote their employment opportunities. VETS 
administers employment programs through the Transition 
Assistance program.
    I would like to highlight five areas that I think will be 
of interest to this committee, to the subcommittee. First, 
service members are attending TAP employment workshops in 
record breaking numbers. VETS administers three core TAP 
employment workshops: the one-day Employment Fundamentals of 
Career Transition, the two-day DOL Employment Workshop, and the 
two-day Career and Credential Exploration Workshop.
    In Fiscal Year 2022, we provided instruction to over 
266,000 participants, which is over a 40 percent increase from 
the previous workshop record in Fiscal Year 2021. Our 
participant survey results are encouraging. In Fiscal Year 
2023, 97 percent of participants indicated they would use what 
they learned in their own transition planning, and 95 percent 
reported that their confidence in transition planning was 
enhanced.
    Second topic, VETS is leading the way to transform the TAP 
employment space. In response to consistent feedback that 
service members want more personalized support beyond the 
classroom environment, VETS created the Employment Navigator 
and Partnership Pilot, or ENPP. Since its original launch at 13 
military installations, ENPP has served over 10,000 
participants. Our contract Employment Navigators provide 
personalized one-on-one assistance with resumes, career 
direction, and referrals to vetted partner organizations and 
American job centers.
    As of March 31, 2023, 96 percent of ENPP survey respondents 
reported positive feelings after meeting with their Employment 
Navigator and would recommend ENPP to a colleague. 
Additionally, 98 percent felt ENPP partners met or exceeded 
their employment-related expectations. I want to share just one 
quote from a participant. He said, the value of the Employment 
Navigator is having a one-on-one conversation to go back over 
the plethora of information you received in TAP classes and 
give guidance and recommendations specific to your situation.
    Third topic, VETS asks Congress to consider expanding the 
Off-Base Transition Training pilot. Currently, veterans and 
their spouses are eligible to receive support modeled after our 
TAP curriculum at locations other than active military 
installations in areas with high veteran unemployment. Congress 
may wish to consider expanding OBTT eligibility to current 
serving members of the Guard and Reserve, regardless of their 
veteran status, and their spouses.
    Fourth topic, VETS will leverage data to improve TAP 
outcomes. Traditionally, VETS has only had access to data about 
TAP workshops and those workshop participants. However, new 
initiatives, such as the Employment Navigator Partnership 
Pilot, have enabled VETS to access employment outcome 
information on our transitioning service members through the 
National Directory of New Hires at the Department of Health and 
Human Services. DOL is leveraging this information to improve 
program delivery and employment outcomes, and we look forward 
to sharing this information and these outcomes when it is 
available.
    Fifth, we ask that Congress appropriate the full amount 
requested in the President's Fiscal Year 2024 budget for VETS. 
We appreciate the funding increases appropriated by Congress 
for TAP. However, Congress has not appropriated the full amount 
requested by the President's budget and needed for VETS, 
Federal Administration, and Uniformed Services Employment and 
Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA). This appropriation is the one 
that funds all VETS staff and enforcement activities. This 
reduction presents a great risk to all VETS programs, including 
TAP.
    In conclusion, our long-term strategic goal for TAP is for 
the Nation as a whole to recognize military service as a path 
to a high-quality civilian career. The future of the country's 
all volunteer force depends on it. We look forward to working 
with this committee and appreciate the support to be able to 
create opportunities that ensure all veterans can have a good 
job and opportunity for advancement. Thank you again for the 
opportunity to be a part of this hearing, and I welcome your 
questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Margarita Devlin Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Devlin. Ms. Devlin's written 
statement will now be entered into the record. Ms. Locke, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your testimony.

                    STATEMENT OF DAWN LOCKE

    Ms. Locke. Thank you, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member 
Levin, and members of the Subcommittee. I am so pleased to be 
here today to discuss our work on the Transition Assistance 
Program, or TAP. Over the next couple of years, almost half a 
million service members will transition into civilian life. 
These transitioning individuals are required to go through TAP 
to get the support they need, whether it is finding a job, 
going to school, or taking advantage of other resources. Today, 
I will be discussing our most recent work on the TAP counseling 
pathways. The three areas I will cover are whether the pathways 
have been implemented, service member participation in the 
pathways, and finally, how effectively TAP is working.
    For the first area on implementation, I am pleased to 
report that the pathways have been fully implemented by all DoD 
services. As you know, the pathways consist of one-on-one 
counseling, self-assessments, goal setting, placement into one 
of three tiers depending on the level of support needed, and 
three core classes, followed by a two-day tailored course. We 
heard generally positive feedback about these pathways and how 
they are now more customized versus being that one size fits 
all approach.
    As for the second area related to participation, we found 
that more than 90 percent of service members went through TAP 
and attended the three-day courses. Unfortunately, the story 
was very different for the additional two-day courses that dive 
deeper into various aspects of employment and higher education. 
The services waived the 2-day courses requirement for 53 
percent of service members. That is a little more than 64,000 
men and women. Notably, 22 percent of tier three service 
members did not attend a two-day class as required. Now, keep 
in mind, the tier three service members are those who are most 
vulnerable for transition challenges, and nearly a quarter of 
them are not taking the two-day class.
    Another important aspect of TAP participation has to do 
with timeliness. The law generally requires that service 
members start at least a year before they separate, but we 
found that only 25 percent started on time. The reason this is 
an issue is because service members who begin TAP late may miss 
opportunities, such as applying for disability benefits before 
leaving military service or taking advantage of DoD's on-the-
job training programs with civilian employers.
    It is unclear why there is low attendance for the two-day 
classes or why most service members start TAP late. We were 
told it could be due to various factors, such as medical 
discharges, deployments, or a lack of command support, but it 
is hard to be sure. While DoD and the services collect data on 
timeliness and two-day class attendance, they do not use these 
data to get at root causes. We therefore recommended that they 
leverage the data they already have to determine the reasons 
for-and how to fix-the issues with attendance and timeliness.
    For the third area of our review on TAP effectiveness, we 
found that DoD and its interagency partners, such as the VA and 
the Department of labor, are sponsoring a number of studies on 
TAP's long-term outcomes. While not yet complete, the studies 
aim to show whether TAP leads to favorable results, such as how 
quickly veterans get a job and how much they earn.
    I do not have to tell anyone on this subcommittee how 
critical it is that we now protect the individuals who have 
spent so many years protecting us. They must be given the time 
and support needed to access transition resources. DoD and the 
services can help do this by making better use of their data to 
determine deficiencies and adjust accordingly. We will also be 
looking for the TAP agency partners to leverage upcoming 
evaluation results to verify what is working and what could be 
improved so veterans can better transition into healthy, 
sustainable lives. This concludes my statement. I look forward 
to your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Dawn Locke Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Locke. The written statement 
of Ms. Locke will be entered into the hearing record. We will 
now proceed to questionings, and I recognize myself for exactly 
5 minutes. Mr. Baird, do you consider the TAP program 
successful?
    Mr. Baird. Yes, sir, I do consider the TAP program 
successful.
    Mr. Van Orden. Are you aware that in a December 2022 report 
the Government Accountability Office stated that the majority, 
which is 70 percent of transitioning veteran service members, 
did not begin TAP at least 365 days before leaving military 
service?
    Mr. Baird. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Why has the Department of Defense 
failed to implement the law as mandated by Congress?
    Mr. Baird. Mr. Chairman, we were in the process of 
implementing the law when COVID started. At that time, 95 to 98 
percent of our courses were in brick and mortar. We had to 
shift to a virtual environment, as did our Federal partners.
    Mr. Van Orden. All right. Okay. What are the DoD service 
branches doing to ensure that installation leadership and unit 
commanders are held accountable to ensure the timeline of TAP 
is met?
    Mr. Baird. Sir, each of the service has a corrective action 
plan for how they will get their numbers back on track. We 
agree with you. The most important thing is that people start 
at 365.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Are you aware of any other Department 
of Defense programs that are performing at a 25 percent success 
rate, and would you consider those successful that are?
    Mr. Baird. No, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Now, Ms. Locke, in your testimony, you 
said that generally someone is held accountable. A unit 
commander, generally, they are not held accountable. That means 
if someone generally has specifically, there should be somebody 
who has been held accountable for this. Can you tell me how 
many commanders have been held accountable for their troops not 
attending TAP?
    Ms. Locke. We did not look into data on commander 
accountability, but what we did hear across the services and 
installations we visited was that commanders are not being held 
accountable. It was suggested to us ways that this could be 
improved by, for example, incorporating TAP into commander 
performance metrics, because we know what gets measured is what 
gets done. We have also been told given the idea to incorporate 
TAP into DoD's mission, because, as we all know, there is zero 
room for failure when it comes to the mission. If TAP were part 
of that mission, it might be given a higher priority.
    Mr. Van Orden. I strongly recommend that you do that 
because no one is going to get to--you can only get to 
functional 365. There is going to be something that comes up, 
rapid deployment. These service members and the Department of 
Defense will not take this program seriously until commanders 
are held accountable, which means them not getting promoted. 
That is the only thing that this is going to happen. This model 
that we gave from Naval Special Warfare, they actually start 2 
years out. It is a 24-year cycle because they understand 1 year 
is not enough time because stuff comes up. It is a fantastic 
model. We will make sure you get that. Ms. Baird, you said the 
22 percent, that is 11,000 service members who are placed in 
the tier three require the maximum transition assistance, they 
did not attend this class. Is that correct?
    Ms. Locke. Was that for, me?
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes, I am sorry.
    Ms. Locke. Okay, that is correct. 11,000 in that tier three 
category did not attend a 2-day class. Again, those tier three 
service members are those who are most vulnerable to housing 
insecurity and food insecurity----
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Ms. Locke [continuing]. or other things like that and they 
are not attending the course as required.
    Mr. Van Orden. Then Mr. Baird, as a representative of the 
Department of Defense, can you explain to me why the service 
members in the greatest danger of becoming homeless and 
starving to death are being granted waivers by their 
commanders?
    Mr. Baird. Sir, I cannot answer for each of the commanders. 
What I can tell you is that it is a commander's program. It is 
a service secretary program. During COVID we put the priority 
on operating in a virtual environment. In March 2022, we put 
the emphasis back on the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) 19, 
making sure we implemented all the components of NDA 19 and we 
are putting the emphasis back on the services. We report that 
information back up through the JEC structure, the Joint 
Executive Council.
    Mr. Van Orden. I got it.
    Mr. Baird. We will also have that information to you this 
fall in our report to Congress.
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Baird, with that information that you 
give back to Congress the number of tier three folks that are 
not meeting this 2-day thing, I want a list of the commanding 
officers' names and their command sergeant majors or command 
master chiefs or command chiefs. I want their names because 
this has got to stop. If someone's being lazy and not running a 
person through this program, they need to be held directly 
accountable.
    The last thing is this, would you be opposed to having the 
Veterans Administration become the lead agency for the 
Transition Assistance Program? The lead. It is a huge, 
convoluted chain of command. I would posit that this program 
and our service members would be better served if in fact the 
Veterans Administration was the lead agency. Would you support 
that?
    Mr. Baird. Mr. Chairman, the three of us work as a team. I 
do not know that it makes any difference who you make lead.
    Mr. Van Orden. My time has expired. I now recognize Ranking 
Member Levin.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Mr. Baird, it was nice 
meeting you in my office recently. I want to thank you for 
joining us today. We do not often have DoD testify before us, 
so I have got some questions for you. DoD's mission statement 
is to provide the military forces needed to deter war and 
ensure our Nation's security. How does service member 
transition fall into that mission?
    Mr. Baird. Ranking Member Levin, it is a key component of 
the entire military service process. It is key to recruitment 
and retention in that my service was based on my father's 
experience in the United States Marine Corps. My daughter's 
experience was based on my time in the Air Force. She is now a 
first lieutenant in the Air Force. It is inherent that the 
Department of Defense has got to make a smooth transition so 
that those people leave, continue to recruit for us.
    Mr. Levin. VA's mission is to fulfill President Lincoln's 
promise to care for those who have served in our Nation's 
military and for their families, caregivers, and survivors. 
Would you say that VA's mission more adequately encompasses a 
service member's transition?
    Mr. Baird. I think it is a partnership between the 
Department of Defense and the Department of Veterans.
    Mr. Levin. I understand that, but of the two mission 
statements, which do you think better encompasses transition?
    Mr. Baird. The veterans, sir.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you for that. As we talked about when we 
met with Undersecretary Cisneros as well, and as I said in my 
opening remarks, I was frankly stunned to hear some of the 
numbers from GAO, and these have been repeated. 25 percent of 
service members in the highest risk level that did not attend 
the mandatory 2-day class, 70 percent of service members did 
not start TAP at least 1 year before separation. My question 
for you is to what extent, if at all, does TAP participation 
affect commanders' performance ratings and promotion potential?
    Mr. Baird. Mr. Ranking Member, that is part of each of the 
services' corrective action plan. How are they going to make 
this a commander's program and hold commanders responsible?
    Mr. Levin. What is the consequence for a commander that 
does not ensure service members under their command start TAP 
on time, or that all tier three service members take the two-
day class?
    Mr. Baird. Sir, I could take that for the record, but I can 
not speak for the services.
    Mr. Levin. It is fair to say it is all over the place. Some 
may have consequences, some may not. Is that a fair statement?
    Mr. Baird. Again, Mr. Ranking Member, I can not speak for 
the services and how they would answer that.
    Mr. Levin. Okay. Well, some of them might say there are 
consequences, some of them might say there are not, correct?
    Mr. Baird. Correct.
    Mr. Levin. Correct. Ms. Locke, I will turn to you. The goal 
of TAP is to ensure service members transitioning from active 
duty are prepared for their next step in life. Do you know 
whether the program is effective?
    Ms. Locke. You know what, we do not. That is because we do 
not have the outcome data. There is a lot of output data on 
participation. The TAP interagency partners are collecting 
surveys and they are telling us that, for example, service 
members think the 3-day courses are useful or that they think 
the 2-day courses are helpful. They do not have actual outcomes 
on the service members who have gone through TAP and how they 
are now living as veterans.
    What is encouraging is that these partners have interagency 
agreements to share data with, for example, the Census Bureau, 
or the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), or, as Ms. Devlin said, 
the Health and Human Services new hire data. Hopefully, 
eventually, those data will be able to show us that a TAP 
graduate was able to get a job, keep a job, how much they 
earned, and whether they had to collect unemployment. Right 
now, we just do not have those data.
    Mr. Levin. Just to be clear, we have no data to understand 
the effectiveness of TAP?
    Ms. Locke. That is correct.
    Mr. Levin. That is something we all need to work on 
together. Let me turn back to you, Mr. Baird, I have a minute 
here. How does the existing TAP structure work for Guard and 
Reserve members?
    Mr. Baird. For Guard and Reserve members, it works exactly 
like it does for active duty. One of the things we did is we 
incorporated a work group as part of the TAP governance 
structure that is a Guard and Reserve working group so they can 
elevate their members. Additionally, we have members at each 
level of the Senior Steering Group (SSG) and the Transition 
Assistance Program Executive Council (TAP EC) from the Guard 
and Reserve.
    Mr. Levin. You think it is working effectively?
    Mr. Baird. I think it could work better. It is a difficult 
thing. Having spent many years working for the National Guard, 
if they deploy for 180 days, they are already behind the power 
curve the day they arrive at their deployed location. One of 
the things we want to continue to look at is how can we best 
integrate both the Transition Assistance Program and the Yellow 
Ribbon Reintegration Program to be effective.
    Mr. Levin. I appreciate that, and, you know, I just want to 
say, make no mistake, we are truly grateful for the work that 
you do for our veterans, our transitioning service members. It 
does not mean we can not improve. We all want to hopefully work 
together. We might be a little biased here on House Veterans' 
Affairs Committee (HVAC), thinking that this fits more within 
the VA wheelhouse, but we need the support of the DoD. We need 
the support of the chain of command, make sure that this is a 
top priority. We need some accountability and transparency on 
how the results are whether this is working or not. I suspect 
we know what the outcome of such analysis would be, but the 
sooner we get to the bottom of it, the better. With that, I 
will yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you Ranking Member Levin. I now 
recognize Mr. Ciscomani for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you again to all 
the witnesses for coming here to testify. I am proud to 
represent Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, which is in Tucson and 
Fort Huachuca in Sierra Vista, both in Arizona's Sixth 
District, my district. Between both installations, thousands of 
service members can call Southeast Arizona home. Ensuring that 
they are successful after their service in the country is a 
huge priority for me. My questions are going to be in that line 
here for both them and their spouses.
    My first one will be to you, Mr. Baird. Now, the service 
members leaving the military are required to participate in the 
Transition Assistance Program, or TAP, which includes a 
combination of pre-separation counseling and 5 days of 
classroom, which is classroom-based instruction. However, the 
Department of Defense has interpreted the five-day TAP course 
differently, and each military branch and military base 
commander has the authority to waive the optional two-day 
class. Do you think that 3 days is enough for a service member 
to take in all the information needed to prepare for a civilian 
life? I know that we went through a two-week orientation here, 
and there was a lot more to cover and a lot of information that 
is thrown our way in any kind of orientation, I can just 
imagine the amount of information that our service members 
would need before hitting civilian life and 3 days with the 
option of waiving two. What do you think about that?
    Mr. Baird. That is a great question, Representative. In my 
case, 3 days was enough. I was 24 years in the United States 
Air Force. I had a job before I started terminal leave. The 
Marine Corps has chosen that everyone who is a first termer 
will be a category three, will be a tier three because they 
need more information. The key is we have got to get to 365 
days so that I have got a full year to address any of the 
issues I have for my transition.
    Mr. Ciscomani. You have found--what is the feedback from 
the service members saying back? What I am hearing is that it 
is not enough. Perhaps in your case it sounds like it was and 
that worked out. For a lot of the members that I am talking to 
it just does not seem to be enough for what they can recall is 
not only the days but is the amount of information. How do you 
think Congress can improve TAP to ensure the positive outcomes 
on the transitioning of service members? I am hearing here from 
my colleagues as well, there is always room for improvement. It 
might have worked for you, it may work for others like you, but 
it does not work for a lot of people out there as well. What 
are the opportunities here for growth and improvement?
    Mr. Baird. Sir, what I would tell you is TAP today is 
better than it was yesterday and TAP tomorrow will be better 
than it is today. It is a continuous, evolving environment and 
a learning environment. The 2019 National Defense Authorization 
Committee (NDAA) changed the entire program. Before that, it 
was just about compliance. Everybody got the same information. 
There are so many benefits out there for our service members as 
they transition that it is hard to know all the benefits. What 
we have been teaching them is where to go to get the additional 
information. An advantage of going to a virtual environment is 
a service member who is now a veteran can still go back and 
retake----
    Mr. Ciscomani. I am sorry to interrupt here because I only 
have a minute and a half left, but I understand that part. I 
want to hear from you is what are improvements that you think 
we can still make? As good as you are describing the program, I 
am sure there are ways and areas where you and I could agree 
that we have to improve. Please cover that.
    Mr. Baird. It is where I need to improve, sir. It is where 
I need to get all of our commanders to 365 days. It is where I 
need to get the IT infrastructure in place to support the long-
term data.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you for that. I only have a little 
over a minute. Ms. Devlin, if I can address you with the 
question here quickly around spouses. In the testimony, you 
described the Transition Employment Assistance for Military 
Spouses, or TEAMS, to help military spouses find employment 
when their spouses leave the military. Based on the information 
from the Department of Labor, military spouses have higher 
unemployment rates compared to national averages, and many can 
only find part-time work. What takeaways does the Department of 
Labor have from the military spouse employment curriculum, and 
are there any plans to scale up this program?
    Ms. Devlin. Thank you so much for that question. It is very 
important that we work with military spouses to eliminate their 
unemployment and eliminate the barriers that they have to 
continued employment due the multiple deployments with their 
spouses. The TEAMS program has been popular, but it is new and, 
you know, people are just gaining awareness. We also have 
services for military spouses at our American Job Centers 
through the American Job Center network. What we are learning 
is that we need to get to them early enough. We need to give 
them the information and the resources so that they do not have 
gaps in employment with each change in duty station.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you so much. Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Ciscomani. I now recognize my 
friend Ms. Ramirez for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, friend Chairman Van Orden, and 
Ranking Member Levin for today's hearing. I additionally want 
to thank all of you who are here today as our witnesses, Ms. 
Rawls, Mr. Baird, Ms. Devlin, and Ms. Locke for coming before 
the committee to engage in what is a critical discussion about 
service member transition and how the Transition Assistance 
Program is an essential tool to empower veterans to make the 
most informed decisions regarding their post service life.
    When we talk about service member transition into veteran 
life, we tend to focus primarily on education and employment 
with good reason. That is not the whole picture. As some of you 
have heard me speak before, I spent many years running a social 
service agency in Chicago, and I cannot emphasize enough how 
important wraparound services are. Mr. Baird, to what extent 
does TAP make service members aware of other resources beyond 
employment and education? For example, how does TAP help with 
mental health or food or housing assistance that might further 
support service members during their transition?
    Mr. Baird. Thank you for that question. TAP was designed to 
prepare the service member for transition. We do avail them of 
opportunities of where to get additional information. The 
Department of Veterans Affairs does that quite nicely. We do 
not address those social needs after they are out of the 
service. That is difficult for us because we do not have that 
control. The best we can do is teach people what is available 
so they can go post service when they are a veteran, they can 
go out and seek those opportunities out.
    Ms. Ramirez. I know that in testimony, one of you talked 
about how they are supposed to go through this 2-day 
orientation of services within that year before they are 
returning, but about 70 percent of them do not participate a 
year prior. Usually there are housing issues when they are 
going to be coming back or there are other resources they need. 
That period of time would help. Why do you think so many are 
not participating within the year prior for them transitioning 
back to civilian life?
    Mr. Baird. I think part of it was during the COVID period, 
people just--commanders were not pushing as hard. That is got 
to change. There are many reasons why somebody would be given a 
waiver. If I have already enrolled in education, if I am 
enrolled at a university, I do not need to go through the 
education track because I already know how to do that. If I 
already have a job, I do not need to go through the employment 
track because I have already got employment.
    Ms. Ramirez. Got it. Let me go back. I have been talking a 
lot about housing, and certainly I also feel like it is 
important to highlight our women veterans. Women veterans have 
specific health needs, including reproductive healthcare needs. 
I understand that the Department of Veteran Affairs currently 
offers women's health transition training to help support our 
women veterans' transition.
    Ms. Rawls, as you know, less than half of eligible women 
veterans are enrolled in VA healthcare. We also know that women 
veterans face a higher rate of some health-related challenges 
after military service compared to men. That includes chronic 
pain, depression, and the list goes on. How can the Women's 
Health Transition Training program be improved to reach more 
women veterans and increase VA Healthcare enrollment?
    Ms. Rawls. Thank you very much for that question, ma'am. 
One of the things that can help improve this offering is for us 
to be able to have it virtually instructor led so the women 
have an opportunity to engage. I want to make it very clear 
that the information that is provided in the Women's Health 
Transition Training, all of the information is provided in the 
VA one-day services. The big distinction between the Women's 
Health Transition Training is that it provides a forum to 
connect to services that VA offers particularly for women. By 
me asking to have an opportunity to have it instructor led 
virtually, I think that is going to have an effect on women to 
be able to talk about what is happening instead of just viewing 
the information again.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Ramirez. I recognize my 
friend Mr. Crane from Arizona for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I always appreciate 
that. Juan's egging me on over here. He wants me to say 
something nasty to you. I do not know what it is about this 
place.
    Thank you guys for being here. This is something that is 
near and dear to me as a veteran myself, watching many friends 
of mine struggle getting out of the service. I went through TAP 
class and I also volunteered a good amount of my time and 
resources to help other members transition out of the military. 
I have a couple of questions for you guys. I wanted to know if 
when you are doing TAP class, Mr. Baird, you guys bring in 
experts or representatives in some of the trades and other 
industries that veterans might be able to pipeline into, like 
construction, IT, entrepreneurship, banking, law enforcement, 
tech, et cetera, so that they might be able to actually get 
connected with somebody in a field, a national field that might 
actually help them place in a job.
    Mr. Baird. Congressman, we do not. There is the ability 
through the SkillBridge program for them to make that 
connection.
    Mr. Crane. Through the what program?
    Mr. Baird. SkillBridge.
    Mr. Crane. Are they informed about that during TAP?
    Mr. Baird. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Crane. Great. Thank you, sir. One of the other things 
that I wanted to mention and see if this is a part of the 
curriculum at all, often successful transitions are not just 
about finding a job, income, housing, et cetera, but a lot of 
veterans do not even realize how hardwired they are for 
service. Is there any information put out to these individuals 
going through TAP to how they can get plugged in and serve in 
their community, in their state, and possibly at higher levels?
    Mr. Baird. Mr. Representative, it happens both through the 
DoD part and also through our partners. We emphasize the 
important skills that they bring. That is one of the reasons--
we just met with Bank of America a couple of weeks ago. One 
hundred percent of the people who do SkillBridge with them, 
they hire. What we are finding is, if we can make that 
connection between corporate America and our veterans, then 
they get hired.
    Mr. Crane. Okay, well, then let me just make a suggestion, 
because this is one of the biggest things that I see, one of 
the biggest reasons I see veterans fail is because after a 
certain point of time, maybe 6 months, a year, they eventually 
land the job and they can pay the bills. Like I said, a lot of 
veterans are hardwired for service and they do not even know 
it, which is why they actually went into the military to begin 
with. Once that mission is missing from their life, they feel 
lost. You know, and so, just a suggestion that might be 
something you guys take a look at is helping them not only 
understand that, but possibly getting plugged into mission-
based, you know, type things when they get out might be 
helpful.
    The next question I have is for Ms. Dawn Locke. Why are so 
few service members starting TAP on time? What are some of the 
consequences to service members of starting TAP later than 
required by law?
    Ms. Locke. Sure. We have been told that the reason why 
people are starting TAP so late is because there is mission 
need. They could be on deployment. They could be hospitalized. 
Or again, we heard that there might be a lack of command 
support. The reason why it is important to be timely with TAP 
is so that the service members can take advantage of the 
resources that are provided to them. For example, they would 
have the time to take advantage of SkillBridge. SkillBridge is 
a 6-month long program and to apply and to interview, it takes 
time. For those service members that are starting TAP too late, 
they miss out on that opportunity.
    In addition, what we heard from a number of service members 
is that the VA benefits is a very complicated process and it is 
a lot being thrown at them. They need time to research their 
benefits and to apply. It is helpful if they apply and get 
approved while they are still in the service because they are 
able to be directly connected to those resources. In addition 
to that, if they are approved while they are in the service, 
that means they immediately start collecting those benefits 
once they leave the service.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you. Mr. Baird, in 2019, NDAA, Congress 
mandated that TAP would consist of a 5-day class to give 
service members more time to disseminate information. However, 
Congress has since learned that the service branches have 
waived attendance. Why has DoD decided not to implement law 
mandated by Congress? What could a service member miss during 
those extra 2 days?
    Mr. Baird. Representative, we believe the law gave us the 
flexibility to tailor TAP to each individual. There are some 
people who do not need to go through all 5 days. As I described 
myself before I separated from the service, I had a job.
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired. I now 
recognize the distinguished gentleman from Indiana, Mr. Mrvan.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you, Chairman. I am going to do everything 
I can to be introduced as your friend going forward. If you 
want to meet for a cup of coffee after this.
    Mr. Van Orden. I now recognize my friend, Mr. Mrvan, from 
Indiana.
    Mr. Mrvan. Sweet. I will get to the point. Mr. Baird, my 
question is, and Ms. Locke had a phenomenal point that I think 
needs to be emphasized, if you cut short the time of the 365 
days and the SkillBridge program takes time in order to ramp 
up, then in essence, you are eliminating a program that is 
successful. Now we know statistically less veterans are able to 
participate in that because of awareness and because of the 
ramp of time of which they are doing that.
    I guess my direct question is, when it comes to veteran 
benefits, I have a specific case at my office right now, and I 
am going to just go through the scenario very quickly. The 
veteran was leaving, did not know that if he did not transfer 
his GI bill for the education component to his daughter, he 
could not do that unless he reenlisted or did four additional 
years or the additional service that he did. He gets out, he 
tries giving it to his daughter, he calls my office and said, I 
was not aware of that. Now, generally, he should be, but the 
fact of the matter is, if he did not participate in that 
program because of command not telling him that he had to go, 
then he is unaware of it. That is a benefit that he is out of 
that he was depending on.
    What I am trying to say is there are real people and 
veterans on the other end of that that you know of. Can you 
explain, if you had a magic wand, what would you do in order 
for the veterans, besides the command, what other steps would 
you take so that the veterans themselves are aware and they 
know what they are missing?
    Mr. Baird. That is a great question. We are very fortunate 
right now that our Undersecretary for Personnel Readiness is an 
advocate of the TAP process, and he is vowed to help us push 
those commanders to make sure that they are hitting that 365 so 
that people have enough time. We are going to continue to 
leverage the online services available to make TAP open to not 
just the service member, but also to their spouses.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. Thank you. Ms. Devlin, how is the 
Department of Labor engaging with employers and industry 
representatives to create more employment opportunities 
specifically targeted at transitioning service members?
    Ms. Devlin. Thank you so much for that question. Several 
different ways. We have a Honoring Investments in Recruiting 
and Employing American Military Veterans Act of 2017 (HIRE) 
Veterans Medallion Program which recognizes employers who hire 
veterans. There is strict criteria for it, and it is the only 
Federal Government program that recognizes employers for hiring 
veterans and retaining them.
    Mr. Mrvan. What does that mean that they are recognized?
    Ms. Devlin. Correct. They can apply to be recognized. We 
verify based on the statistics of their organization. If they 
meet the requirements for hiring, retention, and development of 
veterans, they can get this recognition as a HIRE Veterans 
Medallion Program awardee.
    Then in the TAP program, when transitioning service members 
are learning about their employment options, we tell them about 
this. There was actually one example in TAP class where we had 
a service member leave the TAP class and go contact one of the 
employers in the Hire Vets Medallion Program and actually got a 
job after separation. That is one way in which we market to 
employers that, hey, it is not only great that you hire 
veterans, but you need to get the message out that you are 
hiring veterans so that transitioning service members will know 
to come find you and come work for you.
    Mr. Mrvan. For my own education, where does SkillBridge 
fall under? Who is in charge of SkillBridge?
    Ms. Devlin. Department of Defense.
    Mr. Mrvan. I guess I have a minute-28. If you are in charge 
of a program but not giving people enough time, do you see how 
the frustration we all have that we put these forward? 
Corporations are saying we want to participate. All the 
individuals that participate, your own words at 100 percent. 
100 percent go into that program, get jobs. The ones that are 
missing are the ones that are missing that opportunity. I am 
asking you to go back and to keep that in mind when you are 
advocating for the veterans on how important it is, because we 
have a program that people are unaware of that has 100 percent 
placement.
    Mr. Baird. If I can Representative. Overall, the program 
has 70 percent placement. It was Bank of America that is 100 
percent.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay.
    Mr. Baird. I just want to make sure I do not----
    Mr. Mrvan. Seventy percent.
    Mr. Baird. I am excited to say that as of 1 May, the 
program now belongs to us. It was in a separate department 
within P&R, Personnel and Readiness. It was not fully 
incorporated into the TAP process. We believe bringing it into 
the TAP process will allow us to use that to leverage 
commanders to get people in earlier so they can take advantage 
of the SkillBridge.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you. With that, I yield back my time.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Mrvan. Now, I recognize my 
distinguished colleague and great friend, Mr. McGarvey from 
Kentucky.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that. I 
will take my 5 minutes. I appreciate you all being here today 
and obviously talking about how we can help our veterans. That 
is the purpose of this committee is how can we better help our 
veterans honestly get what they have earned and what they 
deserve from this panel. I was a little troubled by the answers 
to the questions that Mr. Levin was asking earlier and 
certainly look for follow up from that. Do want to continue to 
talk about TAP and its importance.
    As you all know, there are all kinds of challenges veterans 
face when transitioning out of the service and coming into 
being civilians. The TAP is a big part of helping veterans be 
able to succeed. Nearly 2/3 of our student veterans are first 
generation college students. Not only are they facing a 
transition out of the military, they are facing a potential 
transition with TAP into a world that they do not know. 
Certainly, we should be there to help them and their families. 
We must do more for first generation college students across 
the board, but particularly our veterans.
    In light of all the testimony today, just think about this, 
what actions do you recommend Congress take to improve TAP and 
transition as a whole to better support service members in 
attaining higher education?
    Mr. Baird. Thank you for that question. We believe we have 
all the tools right now that were given to us in the NDA 2019. 
Now it is our responsibility to continue and to implement them 
and use them.
    Mr. McGarvey. If you have all the tools you need, what is 
the problem?
    Mr. Baird. The problem was coming out of a COVID 
environment where the services had different priorities, to be 
bluntly, honest. Now, the priorities got to be back on taking 
care of our service members as they transition.
    Mr. McGarvey. How do you plan to do that?
    Mr. Baird. We plan to do that through our TAP corporate 
structure. We have services at every level of that and we are 
holding them accountable. This committee is holding them 
accountable because they know we have got a report due that 
will come over to Congress in the fall. We will continue to use 
the structure we have to put the pressure on the services. They 
get very competitive as one starts achieving numbers that 
somebody else has not.
    Mr. McGarvey. Again, to what Mr. Levin was discussing, you 
know, we certainly want to see that report. We want to get this 
data back. We want to make sure if you do have all the tools 
that you need, these programs are in fact working and that they 
are working for our veterans to give them again what they have 
earned, what they deserve, what they need to continue to find 
success. With that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back the rest of 
my time.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much, Mr. McGarvey. Before we 
close out here, I just want to follow up on one thing. When I 
asked you if you would be opposed, Mr. Baird, of the Department 
of Veterans Affairs taking lead on this issue for transition, 
the reason I asked that is because you have to have a captain 
of a ship. When you work collaboratively, what you do and I 
have looked at the--I would love to see a line and block chart 
of how this is organized because it appears to be a mess. There 
needs to be a desk where the buck can stop, as President Truman 
would say.
    I want to talk to you again after this. I understood that 
you went and saw Mr. Levin. I appreciate that. I would like to 
meet you personally in my office to talk about making sure we 
understand that there is a single point of contact. If anybody 
has any issues that they know who to go to, not a board. We 
govern by consensus. I would not use the word nimble to 
describe it, Congress.
    With that, thank you all very much for coming. I appreciate 
your time very much. The witnesses are now excused.
    I hope you stick around and listen to the next panel. It 
would be awesome. Thank you. We will take a short recess.
    [Recess]
    Mr. Van Orden. Well, thank you all for coming. Mr. Luis y 
Prado, if you can have a seat, please. Our second panel we will 
be hearing from today Ms. Brittany Dymond, the Associate 
Director of National Security and Foreign Affairs Directorate 
from the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW). I left my hat in my 
office. Mr. Michael Quinn, Chief Executive Officer of Higher 
Military and Tenova, LLC. Dr. Abby Knish, Kinch? Say it again?
    Ms. Kinch. Kinch.
    Mr. Van Orden. Kinch, PhD, Chief of Staff of Student 
Veterans of America (SVA). We have had you guys over a few 
times. Mr. Jim Lorraine, the President and Chief Executive 
Officer (CEO) of America's Warrior Partnership (AWP), and Mr. 
Hern n Luis y Prado, the founder and CEO of Workshops for 
Warriors.
    I would like to welcome you all here to our second panel, 
and I would ask you to please stand and raise your right hand.
    [Witnesses sworn]
    Thank you. Let the record reflect all witnesses have 
answered in the affirmative. Ms. Dymond, you guys see us. I do 
not know if you were all here earlier, but we will be talking 
for exactly 5 minutes. Ms. Dymond, you are recognized for 5 
minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF BRITTANY DYMOND

    Ms. Dymond. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and 
members of the subcommittee, on behalf of the men and women of 
the VFW, we thank you for the opportunity to provide our 
remarks on this vital topic. The critical nature of military 
transition cannot be understated. For many transitioning 
service members, the change from military to civilian life 
represents a complete personal and professional shift not 
previously experienced as adults. Additionally, leaving service 
is often complicated by service-related ailments, family needs, 
loss of identity and support networks, and the need for 
retraining to enter a new career field. Sadly, the initial year 
following discharge also comes with increased suicide risk 
among new veterans, bolstering the need to ensure all 
transition stakeholders work to get it right.
    Some of the best resources service members have during 
transition are accredited representatives like those in the 
VFW's Benefits Delivery at Discharge Program, also known as 
BDD. Through BDD, individuals can file expedited VA claims and 
complete medical evaluations before leaving service, enabling 
VA to provide disability ratings upon or shortly after 
discharge. Receiving expedited claims decisions means BDD 
participants are better able to minimize gaps in essential care 
like mental health counseling and medication management, and 
use resources like the VA's Veteran Readiness and Employment 
Program.
    For these reasons, the VFW believes there is untold value 
in incorporating accredited representatives into the TAP 
curriculum. Specifically, we would like to see these 
individuals facilitate complementary course materials that 
cover VA benefits and services where practical, with an 
emphasis toward those that can be applied for prior to 
discharge. Accredited representatives would not only be able to 
highlight the BDD program, but also help transitioning service 
members file claims to aid in the seamless delivery of care and 
benefits once they return to civilian life. Claims assistance 
is a task that VA contract employees, who largely teach the VA 
curriculum legally cannot do.
    Currently, however, representatives like the VFW's BDD 
employees experience wide variability in how, if at all, they 
could engage TAP participants. This is because no statute or 
policy exists that requires installation commanders and site 
managers to permit their entry into and participation in any 
element of the course. As a result, site managers vary in their 
willingness to allow representatives in TAP, and if entry is 
permitted, managers also differ in how they will allow them to 
interact with attendees.
    While not the rule, TAP managers often do not see the value 
in having accredited representative present, or they assert 
that there simply is not enough time to allow them to speak to 
service members. We have even been told that we can get better 
help from outside of TAP, which is completely false, especially 
in the context of needing to meet service members where they 
are. As such, the VFW believes VA must utilize representatives 
as tools in their TAP toolkit to the maximum practical extent.
    Another area of major concern is community connections. The 
VFW also believes it is crucial for Congress to clarify how it 
defines resources located in communities, as outlined in 
Section 1142 of Title 10. Within the Fiscal Year 2019 TAP 
reforms, Congress mandated that all transitioning service 
members be connected to resources in the communities in which 
they plan to live after service. However, DoD is not doing this 
consistently or effectively.
    As written, the requirement is too ambiguous since the 
statute does not articulate how resources should be identified 
or what it actually means to connect service members. 
Respondents to the VFW's BDD program survey are asked whether 
they received those community connections. Between September 
2022 and May 2023, one-third of more than 1,000 respondents 
indicated that they either were not or did not know if they 
received those connections during individualized counseling.
    As the law requires, we would like Congress to ensure 
connections are being consistently made between transitioning 
service members and resources in the communities to which they 
are transitioning. One option Congress can designate for 
identifying connection points is the National Resource 
Directory. This resource contains vetted organizations that 
span the transition spectrum from career assistance to 
caregiver support. The transition program's generalist nature 
is not a flaw of the system, but rather a feature of the 
system. TAP is neither designed for nor able to address 
everyone's unique needs, so community resources fill the void 
that its curriculum cannot. In other words, community 
organizations are the transition program's force multiplier, 
but only if connections to those organizations are effectively 
made. Chairman Van Orden and Ranking Member Levin, this 
concludes my testimony. I am prepared to take any questions you 
or members of the subcommittee may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Brittany Dymond Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Dymond. The written statement 
of Ms. Dymond will be entered into the hearing record. Mr. 
Quinn, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF MICHAEL QUINN

    Mr. Quinn. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, distinguished 
members of the subpanel--subcommittee, my apologies. I am a 
retired sergeant major. I retired November 1, 2017. I am a 
little direct. I apologize if that offends anyone. I am 
assuming it is okay with Mr. Chairman. TAP is personal to me. I 
was a top performer in my entire career. I was promoted first 
almost my entire career, special mission units. I led security 
for the White House Communications Agency. In my last job, I 
led the operations for 17,000 people in 45 countries. I was 
planning on doing another 7 years. I brought the list of 
assignments home to my former spouse, and she said, yes, I am 
not moving. She had moved seven times in 9 years, and she had 
finally gotten a good job and was near where she had support. 
That goes into the military spouse employment piece as well.
    I thought with a top-secret Sensitive Compartmented 
Information (SCI) clearance, my last job, all the intel 
experience that I had in the D.C. area, it was going to be a 
breeze. I went to TAP and did everything they taught me. I went 
to my first job fair and I spent 6 hours talking to 41 
employers. All 41 employers said, check our careers page and 
apply online, and actually broke contact with me so that I 
could not ask follow-on questions.
    It was a gut punch. Luckily, a little bit of the sergeant 
major came out of me in recruiter number 40, and I said, no, 
look back here. How do I follow up with you? They told me to 
connect with them on LinkedIn, and I did.
    I will tell you, that tool, that resource, it is not social 
media. It was a networking tool for me. It was a way to get 
information outside of TAP. I dove in. I did over 200 
informational interviews to figure out what I wanted to do, 
what I was qualified to do, and how I could make myself a best 
candidate, and to find the mentors that I needed to open doors 
for me.
    You know, when we talk about TAP, I will tell you that TAP 
was the hardest year of my life. Harder than Iraq, harder than 
Afghanistan, Bosnia, Philippines, Guantanamo Bay, because of 
the uncertainty at the end, not knowing how I was going to take 
care of my family. I had a retirement. When I tell you it is 
personal, I mean, I lived it. It is been my life to give back.
    What I want to say is that I acknowledge that the four 
leaders here that spoke before us are all very passionate and 
they are doing their best about the program. I know that the 
interagency council is really working hard to improve TAP. I 
have seen it improve since 2017 when I got out. Somebody needs 
to be in charge. It is an interagency council. They default 
back to their own specific elements. You can not hold anybody 
accountable if it is not getting fixed. You can not drive 
innovation. I sat in on a briefing by a VA, defense fellow at 
the VA on May 3rd, and he shared the numbers of people not 
attending. The VA can not really do anything about that. No one 
is in charge. Somebody has to be in charge of the program for 
it to be effective, for it to continue to grow.
    Number two, I would say that the military lifecycle 
transition was mandated starting back, I believe, in the 
Veterans Opportunity to Work (VOW) Act and again in 2017, which 
means that service members get transition related training 
throughout their entire career, not just the 1 week of training 
at the end when it is too much. It is been mandated by 
Congress. DoD's never implemented it. There is even a website. 
I will tell you that the services are not providing it. If you 
provided training at key Permanent Change in Stations (PCSs), 
at leadership schools over the course of a career, not only 
will it not be the first time they see it, leaders will be able 
to mentor their service members and provide access to resources 
that they need to find their success.
    The third part is TAP delivery. Seven hundred facilitators 
around the world reading PowerPoint for 2 to 3 days is 
overkill, and how much of that can you really retain? What I 
will say is that the pandemic taught us how to be remote. I 
will tell you that the vast majority of our transitioning 
service members would love to be able to access content 
whenever they need it on their mobile devices with some earbuds 
in. There should be an Learning Management System (LMS) with 
all the training they want. They could take it as often as they 
have it. You can track performance along the way, along with on 
demand, expert driven classes that they can get live classes 
on. That is TAP delivery.
    Then the last part is, this is hard coming from the Army, 
but we have got to hold DoD accountable. It is comical that if 
a soldier, God forbid, does not get their dental checkup, it is 
coming down from the installation through all the command 
levels, and a first arm's marching them to the dental center. 
We can not get people in the TAP training. I recommend holding 
them accountable using UCX, Unemployed Compensation for Ex-
Service Members, to track performance and fiscal repercussions. 
Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Michael Quinn Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you. The sergeant major's time has 
expired. I now recognize Ms. Kinch for 5 minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF ABBY KINCH

    Ms. Kinch. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting Student 
Veterans of America to submit testimony on the topic of the 
Transition Assistance Program. I want to talk to you today from 
the perspective of a former student veteran representing the 
post-911 generation of veterans currently in classrooms across 
the country.
    While there have been some attempts to improve TAP, the 
program is still lacking, particularly when it comes to helping 
transitioning service members prepare to use their education 
benefits as a means to transition into civilian life. 
Primarily, this programmatic deficit is due to a lack of 
emphasis placed on the education portion of TAP, which has 
manifested culturally within units, as well as impacted the 
decisions available when transitioning through higher 
education.
    First, the transition track of TAP is simply not sufficient 
for anyone entering higher education. Imagine a high school 
student sitting down with a guidance counselor to prepare for 
college. They often start 1, 2, sometimes 4 years out, and 
these visits are frequent, including a comprehensive assessment 
of majors, college selection, housing, financial aid, and more. 
TAP's Education Workshop provides service members with 2 days 
or online 240 minutes of counseling without individualized 
attention. The deficit brought by this disparity leaves service 
members and their families to make sometimes poor decisions 
that cost them time and money.
    Student veterans are more than twice as likely as 
traditional students to change their degree major because of 
ill informed decisions or simple unknowns. They are also likely 
to incur debt, as more than half are married, more than half 
have children, 20 percent are single parents. While they are 
successful in the classroom, they often do not take advantage 
of opportunities outside of the classroom or on campus because 
they feel isolated by age and experience.
    If proper interventions started sooner and with more 
emphasis on education, degree major changes would be reduced, 
the GI bill could be used on longer Science, Technology, 
Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM) degrees, and Temporary 
Assistance (TA) dollars could be more appropriately used to 
take courses that transfer or that are housed in the 
destination school.
    More holistically, student veterans find that isolation 
greatly contributed to transition stress. However, our survey 
feedback shows that a vast majority of student veterans felt 
TAP did not prepare them for these type of social and 
psychological struggles. Combating common feelings of isolation 
for student veterans with the camaraderie provided by an SVA 
chapter also exposes these students to the larger campus 
community. We have noted that student veterans who have engaged 
with their SVA chapter are more likely to engage with other 
areas of campus.
    Additionally, a 2016 survey found that most student 
veterans have some level of service-connected disability, 
though virtually none at the time were using disability offices 
or accommodations to support their academic experience. When 
that same study was repeated in 2022, the number of student 
veterans utilizing these services had increased to 26 percent. 
Not only are SVA chapters a front door to other campus 
organizations, but they serve as a gateway to needed campus and 
VA services. Most student veterans, unfortunately, do not 
discover their SVA chapter until late in their college career. 
If veteran service organizations such as SVA connected with 
transitioning service members during TAP or earlier, this 
timeline to discovering support is shortened, and we may see 
real impact that continues beyond immediate transition and 
education.
    Finally, the culture around the importance of TAP. There is 
an imbalance in the emphasis placed on transition tracks, 
anecdotally and in response to surveys, some student veterans 
report that their unit's culture is unsupportive regarding TAP 
and education. Some service members do not understand the 
importance of the program because it is not stressed to them by 
their command, who themselves do not see TAP as important for 
transitioning service members, as was pointed to in the GAO 
report.
    The short optional track, the lack of involvement of the 
Department of Education in the career portion of TAP, and the 
minimal discussion of education opportunities post service when 
compared to career opportunities, demonstrates to everyone that 
higher education is not the intended destination for service 
members. Because of this, the education portion of TAP, noting 
that service members in large numbers are transitioning through 
higher education, must be improved. Not only should TAP begin 
earlier in the transition process, but it should be robust 
enough to follow a service member from the decision to separate 
through education and into a meaningful career. For SVA, 
transition services are not a bridge from one point to another, 
from inside the DoD to out, but through the entirety of the 
transition process to include all departments. Thank you, 
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and the members of 
the subcommittee for this opportunity. I look forward to your 
questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Abby Kinch Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Dr. Kinch. I now recognize Mr. 
Lorraine for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF JIM LORRAINE

    Mr. Lorraine. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the invitation to 
testify to you today. The topic of veterans employment and 
transition is a very important one. We all know that transition 
between jobs is one of the most volatile times in a life, but 
even more so when you are involved with a change of culture, a 
change in routine, a change in location, the loss of 
camaraderie, the loss of financial security, and sometimes the 
loss of a sense of purpose. Together, this has repeatedly shown 
to lead to feelings of hopelessness, and the loss of hope is 
one of the largest contributing factors to veteran suicide.
    At America's Warrior Partnership, our mission is to partner 
with communities to prevent veteran suicide. Ensuring veterans 
have purpose and are financially stable are the ultimate issues 
that we are here to address today. The greatest indictment of 
the military is often how we treat our veterans and the next 
generation's watching. When 15-to 17-year-olds see how veterans 
are struggling with transition and jobs after service, many 
quickly choose not to join the military.
    At AWP, we found that most companies did not know how to 
utilize or help veterans and their families who were already in 
the workforce. In response, AWP began the Corporate Veteran 
Initiative (CVI), which is powered by our AWP network 
consisting of thousands of partners. Most of them are 
communities. CVI raises morale and productivity of the veterans 
and helps employee retention and recruitment. It is a win win. 
Companies such as Wells Fargo, Union Bank of Switzerland (UBS), 
and Peraton, to name a few, have made the choice to act.
    For those in transition, underemployment and financial 
insecurity are major issues. Programs led in coordination by 
the Department of Defense, VA, and DOL have made significant 
progress in helping veterans navigate this transition better, 
but they have a long way to go. However, most of this process 
is DoD heavy, yet, the VA and DOL will be with these former 
service members from discharge on. DOL and the VA must play a 
bigger role. When everyone's in charge, no one's in charge.
    The DOL's Veterans Employment & Training Service, DOL VETS, 
has a program called Employee Navigator Partnership Pilot, or 
ENPP. Utilizing the ENPP those can look to job markets, 
research geographic regions, craft resumes and other pre-career 
functions in partnership with major employers and Veterans 
Service Organizations (VSOs) to assist. Importantly, ENPP is 
open to spouses. ENPP must be expanded and given additional 
funding to add more to the communities. I think my colleague 
with the VFW said it best.
    While the GI bill is well known, the VA Apprenticeship 
Program is not. With such a high potential for the 
Apprenticeship Program, it needs to be updated and reformed. 
First, the VA Apprenticeship Program needs to be updated to a 
cost of living paid to the students. Currently, it is a 
percentage of what is paid for using the GI Bill. That needs to 
end. There should be parity. Second, this program should not in 
any way use their GI Bill benefits. The student should not risk 
losing their GI bill.
    Next, more needs to be done to ensure the cost of 
apprenticeships do not fall on the employers, including costs 
of certifications and licensures. We must make it easier for 
employers to find partners who are participating students.
    Finally, I am here to applaud the SkillBridge program and 
offer some recommendations. SkillBridge needs to be consistent 
across the Department of Defense, available everywhere, and 
more companies need to know how this program works and provide 
no cost opportunities to transition service members without 
excessive bureaucracy. I suggest SkillBridge program moves to 
the Department of Labor for a full execution and integration 
into the employer space.
    Last, I would also like to point out that veterans 
protected status is only selected for a few, not open to 
everyone. By changing the veterans protected status for all who 
served in the National Guard, Reserve, active duty were 
discharged in a status other than dishonorable, you can protect 
the rights of veteran employees across the board. Again, I 
thank you to everyone on the subcommittee, and I look forward 
to your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Jim Lorraine Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Lorraine. The written 
statements of Dr. Kinch, Sergeant Major Quinn, and Mr. Lorraine 
will all be entered into the hearing record. Thank you. I now 
recognize Mr. Luis y Prado for 5 minutes.

                STATEMENT OF HERNAN LUIS Y PRADO

    Mr. Luis y Prado. Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden, 
Ranking Member Levin, and distinguished members of the 
subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. 
My name is Hernan Luis y Prado, the founder and CEO of 
Workshops for Warriors, headquartered in San Diego, California. 
I would like to share with you a way to provide those that have 
served an opportunity to be trained and placed into dignified, 
lifelong careers, increase our military readiness, and continue 
serving our Nation.
    What got me here? Have you ever struggled or lost your 
footing? Do you remember how it felt to suddenly lose a job or 
even worse, a loved one? I am a 15-year Navy veteran with 
combat tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. I knew that on any given 
day, more than 20 of us were dying from suicide. Why was I 
losing more friends to suicide than to bombs and bullets 
overseas? When you are in the military, you are part of 
America's suit of armor. In this purpose-driven tapestry, each 
of us knows what is expected and what to expect from others.
    When your service ends, you are suddenly ripped out of this 
fabric and you find yourself alone, adrift, and without a 
mission. The sudden lack of income, purpose, and identity are 
overwhelming because you have never been trained or equipped 
for this new set of challenges. When I came back from my first 
tour in Iraq, many of my injured marines convalescing at 
National Naval Medical Center would come to my house, gather in 
my garage to tinker with tools and pass the time. Spending time 
together made me realize how worried these combat veterans were 
about the scariest thing they had ever encountered, their 
imminent transition to civilian life.
    Our numbers grew, and soon my garage became crowded with 
Marines welding, machining, and fabricating, the underpinnings 
of manufacturing. This was just a diversion. I needed to find a 
long-term solution for the veteran crisis, as well as another 
looming problem.
    While we were distracted in not one but two wars, China 
overtook America and became the world's number one 
manufacturing nation. In 2010, China had 56 submarines. By 
2030, they will have 76. We need to build three submarines a 
year just to catch up. We can currently build one. In short, 
manufacturing dominance had long been America's economic and 
military backbone, but now it was no longer our superpower. I 
began to wonder, could we harness the tremendous human capital 
that our veterans contain by retraining them to help America 
regain her economic, manufacturing, and military prowess? What 
if we gave every veteran the opportunity to rebuild America's 
manufacturing workforce, to have a dignified life, to be part 
of the American dream? Sounds great, right? I just did not know 
how.
    In 2006, I was in a mall when I heard a familiar voice call 
out, Doc. I turned to see one of my Marines, who I had served 
with, coming toward me. He told me that he had lost both of his 
legs to an improvised explosive device in Iraq. I remembered 
his dream of being a Marine Corps lifer. As he wheeled away 
from me, I was devastated. Not just by him, but because he 
represented the lost dreams and aspirations of all of my 
injured comrades in arms. My knees literally melted, and as I 
sank to the ground, I had a life changing epiphany that has 
driven my life ever since. I grabbed my wife Rachel's arm and 
said, we are going to sell everything we have and do something. 
To Rachel's huge credit, she said yes.
    We sold our home, vehicles, and cashed in our retirement to 
create an advanced manufacturing training center so that our 
veterans could be trained for a viable future. We named it 
Workshops for Warriors. Workshops for Warriors is the only 
accredited nonprofit in the U.S. dedicated to accelerated and 
compressed training and placement of veterans and transitioning 
service members in welding, fabrication, Computer Numerical 
Control (CNC), machining, 3D printing, robotics, and computer 
aided design careers. Our graduates leave with nationally 
recognized portable and stackable credentials.
    I am married, I am married to a statistician and survey 
methodologist, so here are the facts. Our school has grown 350 
times our original footprint and is about to expand nationally. 
Workshops has graduated more than 1,125 veterans, who have 
earned more than 12,000 nationally recognized credentials. Our 
graduates work in every State of our Nation for companies like 
Boeing, SpaceX, and Ford. Since 2011, we have a 94 percent 
average placement rate, with an average starting salary of 
$60,000 a year.
    You could help veterans become America's force multiplier. 
We know that TAP and SkillBridge can work. We know that 
retraining veterans works, and it could solve our Nation's 
manufacturing crisis while giving veterans purpose and an 
opportunity to serve our Nation again.
    So, what is the issue? Since 2015, 40 percent of Workshops 
for Warriors graduates found out about our program through the 
Transition Assistance Program. Fifty-six percent attended by 
using SkillBridge. For every graduate that used SkillBridge, 
three times that number said their command denied their 
requests and, as a result, could not enroll.
    In January 2023, Deloitte confirmed that America has 
803,000 unfilled manufacturing jobs due to lack of skilled 
labor, and that number is rising to 2.1 million. We should take 
advantage of this to train our veterans to make America the 
world's manufacturing and military superpower again. Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Hernan Luis Y Prado Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thanks, Doc. By the way, my title used to be 
HMCS Van Orden in case you were wondering. That means you are 
cleaning the toilets when we get done here, Prado.
    Mr. Luis y Prado's testimony, written statement will now be 
entered into the record.
    Before we get started with this questioning here, I would 
like to recognize someone who is sitting in the front row 
there, Mr. Romesha, Staff Sergeant, 1H Medal of Honor 
recipient. Just made me smile.
    All right, we will now start our questions. I will 
recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    My number one legislative priority is to prevent veteran 
suicide. That is what I am doing. I have got an email on my 
desk. It was written to me by a service member's brother who 
committed suicide. I spent my first day in Congress calling his 
widow, his brother, and his father and apologizing for the 
department or the Federal Government's inability to schedule a 
medical appointment.
    My Ranking Member Levin's number one legislative priority 
is preventing veterans homelessness. I am afraid that we catch 
up on these things too late. What we are talking about here and 
what you are discussing is an upstream solution, because once 
someone has food insecurity or they are living in a bush on a 
corner, it is so much harder to get that back. I want you to 
know that we are taking this exceptionally seriously. That is 
why we went to your district in California in Oceanside, home 
of the Marines.
    There are a couple of things here I just want to point out, 
Sergeant Major and Mr. Lorraine. Sergeant Major, you said 
someone must be in charge. Mr. Lorraine, you echoed that 
comment, and that is what I started with when we were speaking 
with our Department of Defense folks here. Someone has to be in 
charge. We just have to, or things do not work.
    We have Senior Executive Services (SESs). We have got all 
these people making a ton of money. I do not know how many 
people are associated with these different programs, how many 
agencies, and phone calls, and no one knows what is going on. 
It gives everybody the excuse to get nothing done. That has got 
to stop.
    I do not agree, Mr. Lorraine, that this should be a 
Department of Labor issue. I think that this should reside with 
the Veterans Affairs Committee and with the Veterans Affairs 
Administration. This is why, because every single day we get 
up, this is all we think about. That is it. The Department--
ma'am, you came to my office and I appreciate that greatly. I 
do not have heartburn with you at all.
    What I have heartburn with is the Department of Defense 
appears to be dragging their feet with this. Lots of times they 
think that we are shanking people out of the military. That is 
not the case. My brothers in Naval Special Warfare produced 
this fantastic transition program. It clearly demonstrates 
unequivocally that by providing an off ramp into the civilian 
community, you are not making people get out of the military 
sooner. What you are doing is preventing them from killing 
themselves and becoming homeless and drug addicts and 
alcoholics.
    That is what we are here to do. You may not be aware of 
this but when you joined the Navy or the Army, the Navy, or the 
Army, Air Force signed you up for a 30-year career. There is 
something called the enlisted ladder that lays out very clearly 
from day one of boot camp until you retire as an E-9, Sergeant 
Major, or Command Master Chief. This has to be integrated into 
that program. Then it becomes programmatic.
    That is something, sir, that we can tie directly to the 
performance results of these officers. Until officers start 
getting fired for this, and senior enlisted people start 
getting fired for this, and SESs start getting fired for this, 
it is not going to change. We all know, anybody that spent 5 
seconds in the military knows that. I am going to ask you just 
one by one here, Ms. Dymond, if you could be queen of the world 
for a day, who would you put in charge of running the 
Transition Assistance Program?
    Ms. Dymond. I would most likely say the VA, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Quinn, excuse me, Sergeant Major.
    Mr. Quinn. The VA.
    Mr. Van Orden. Doctor.
    Ms. Kinch. The VA.
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Lorraine.
    Mr. Lorraine. The VA. Sir, I said the ENPP program should 
move--or sorry, the SkillBridge----
    Mr. Van Orden. SkillBridge----
    Mr. Lorraine [continuing]. program should move to labor.
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes, oh, I understand.
    Mr. Lorraine. Not the----
    Mr. Van Orden. I am with you.
    Mr. Lorraine [continuing]. transition. Okay.
    Mr. Van Orden. I still disagree. That is all right.
    Mr. Lorraine. Okay.
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Luis y Prado.
    Mr. Luis y Prado. The Department----
    Mr. Van Orden. I would start with the Department, then a 
person. Why are you looking for a job? Apparently you are busy 
already, Doc.
    Mr. Luis y Prado. Not me, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Did you hear that?
    Mr. Luis y Prado. Not me. I know some people that would be 
very capable----
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Mr. Luis Y Prado.--who could help us with that.
    Mr. Van Orden. Which department do you think they should 
fall under?
    Mr. Luis y Prado. DoD, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Let the record reflect that every single 
member of this panel thinks that the Veterans Administration 
should be in charge of the Transition Assistance Program. With 
that, I yield back. I recognize my Ranking Member, Mr. Levin, 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you, chairman. I thank Mr. Luis y Prado 
for making the journey from San Diego to Washington D.C. today. 
A journey I am quite familiar with every week. Thank you for 
your expertise as well. Hearing from experts like you is really 
important. You are on the ground. You are serving veterans 
every day. Hearing from you and seeing what you are 
experiencing is really critical for the work of the 
subcommittee.
    You urge greater SkillBridge participation. How would you 
suggest we drive more employers to participate in SkillBridge?
    Mr. Luis y Prado. Ranking Member, it is not a question of 
employers per se. I would say it is the wraparound services 
required. It is difficult to focus on studying if you are 
focusing on survival. The wraparound services are the most 
impactful way to move a transitioning service member into a 
viable, lifelong career. For example, we had 21 national 
employers at our last job fair. Every one of our graduates got 
a job. It is never the employers that are the issue. It is how 
do we take care of the young men and women that have served to 
provide them the wraparound services, the housing?
    You can not study if you do not know where you are going to 
put your head at night, if you are starving. We have had to 
purchase housing, buy a restaurant so you can feed people. We 
call it Forward Operating Base (FOB) San Diego. You can not 
focus on what you are trying to do if you do not know where you 
are going to put your head down. I h would say the wraparound 
service is the most important part of that, sir.
    Mr. Levin. Gotcha. I appreciate that very much. The Warrior 
Training Advancement Course, WARTAC, a really good opportunity 
for transitioning service members and often leads to employment 
at one of Veteran Benefits Administration's (VBA's) regional 
offices. Would you support more programs similar to WARTAC and 
other Federal Government agencies for transitioning service 
members?
    Mr. Luis y Prado. I would support any program that actually 
holds schools and commands accountable with objectively 
verifiable metrics such as job placement, average starting 
salaries, nationally recognized credentials, time to hire. We 
need to have, I believe, objectively measured, and tracked 
metrics so we can track the effectiveness of an organization or 
their outputs.
    Mr. Levin. Before I turn to others, I just wanted to expand 
a bit on the chairman's question about which agency should be 
in charge. I heard the four of you say VA. I heard you say DoD, 
and I wanted to ask you your rationale.
    Mr. Luis y Prado. DoD has people in uniform that can be 
held accountable. I think right now the biggest challenge is 
that the DoD Contracting Officers (COs) do not understand how 
they can navigate the friction between unit readiness, a gapped 
billet, and their responsibility toward helping the service 
members that are transitioning from their unit get into a 
lifelong, useful career so they can maintain their communities 
and rebuild our Nation. If you are able to provide them an 
opportunity by having some higher cover and saying, if you move 
this person into SkillBridge earlier, you will get that billet 
back. I think that would be the easiest way of making this work 
forward, because the people that go through our SkillBridge 
program are almost four times more likely to make it through 
the program than someone that is not.
    Mr. Levin. I appreciate that. When you look at the mission 
statements of the two entities, DoD is, again is to provide the 
military forces needed to deter war and ensure nation's 
security.
    Mr. Luis y Prado. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Levin. VA is to fulfill President Lincoln's promise to 
care for those who have served our Nation's military and for 
their families, caregivers, and survivors. Same question for 
you that I had for the last panel. Which do you think more 
adequately encompasses transition?
    Mr. Luis y Prado. I believe----
    Mr. Levin. It is not a trick question, I promise.
    Mr. Luis y Prado.--the VA should have overall 
accountability. There should be a much tighter accountability 
with the DoD units that we need to mandate and control that 
they actually send their people to SkillBridge. I agree that 
the VA should hold onto it, but there has to be much tighter 
collaboration and accountability between the DoD and the VA.
    Mr. Levin. Got it. I think that is where we are heading 
with all this. Ms. Dymond, I will turn to you. You noted that 
the initial year following transition poses increased risk of 
suicide for new veterans. Can you speak to the risk factors 
that contribute to this trend and any protective factors that 
can alleviate it?
    Ms. Dymond. Mr. Ranking Member, absolutely. Thank you for 
the question. In the short time we have remaining, we need to 
look at the social determinants of health. The protective 
factors. Do they have a roof over their head? Do they have food 
in their stomach? Can they take care of themselves and their 
families? Basic needs to be met. Basic needs need to be met.
    In addition, as Mr. Crane noted, we also need to make sure 
that service members understand the challenges inherent with 
transition when we are talking about the loss of social support 
and the network that you have inherent in the military and 
ensuring that we are facilitating connections appropriately to 
community resources so that they can get those connections. 
Also, connections to benefits is vital.
    Mr. Levin. I am out of time. I would just end by saying 
that, as the chairman mentioned, his top priority, ending 
veteran suicide. Mine ending veteran homelessness. Although 
both, I think, are incredibly important to us both. Improving 
transition and the work that you are all doing is vital to both 
of our objectives. This is very high stakes, very important, 
and we really appreciate the work that you do, and I will yield 
back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin. I now 
recognize Mr. Crane for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. 
Thank you guys for coming today. As I told the last panel, this 
is a very important topic to me, and I thank you for all the 
work that you guys are doing on this issue. I want to start 
with Dr. Kinch. Did I pronounce that correctly? Thank you. All 
right. Does Student Veterans of America have any recommendation 
to the education track that could improve how transitioning 
service members use their GI eligibility and make sure to make 
the correct choice?
    Ms. Kinch. Yes. Thank you so much for that question. We 
have to start considering the education benefit as soon as 
someone decides to utilize tuition assistance while in service, 
because those credits will largely dictate where, how, and when 
someone can continue to use credits post service or post 
transition using the GI bill. If someone does not complete a 
degree using tuition assistance and they have gone somewhere 
with credits that we will say are largely untransferable, they 
have then wasted that money using tuition assistance and have 
to start over using their GI bill.
    Student veterans largely go to 4-year public universities. 
Understanding the behavior of service members in higher 
education as well as veterans in higher education and 
understanding the transition there would be the first step. We 
do have a lot of ideas.
    Mr. Crane. Okay. Can somebody maybe we can start with you, 
Dr. Kinch, or anybody on this panel help me understand what 
other opportunities are available for veterans who have paid 
into their GI bill who might not want to go to a 4-year 
university, higher education, et cetera? Mr. Luis y Prado?
    Mr. Luis y Prado. Vocational training programs that lead to 
nationally recognized credentials, I would say would be my 
number one pick. It is an easy way for people to get average 
starting salary jobs of $60,000 a year, and most importantly, 
it rebuilds America's manufacturing capability and readiness. 
Every single graduating class that I have had since 2008, I ask 
them the same question, when America goes to war again, sea 
lanes are cut, and we need DoD facilities to rebuild everything 
that is hard and metal that goes overseas. I want you to report 
to your closest DoD facility to help rebuild our manufacturing 
infrastructure. Would anybody here object? In 15 years, I have 
yet to hear a ``no.'' They are all people that have a clear 
purpose, which is why they joined the military. If you provide 
them compressed training, nationally recognized credentials, 
they are happy to engage and rebuild our manufacturing 
infrastructure.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you. Dr. Kinch, real quick, is there any 
pushback from any of the VSOs up here on giving veterans more 
of a choice, more options on how to use their GI bill?
    Ms. Kinch. Thank you for that. As far as I know, the 
options are extremely robust, and a majority of folks who 
enlist do so for the education benefits on the other side to 
obtain a college degree. You can use education benefits for a 
number of opportunities, like my colleague said, vocational 
opportunities. You can get your pilot's license. There are a 
number of things that you can use those benefits for.
    Mr. Crane. Just to put you on the spot, ma'am, can you run 
me through five or six of those if you know them off the top of 
your head?
    Ms. Kinch. I would be happy to get that to you after this 
hearing.
    Mr. Crane. Okay. All right. The reason I am pushing and the 
reason I ask is because I am big on choice. Like Mr. Luis y 
Prado, when I was getting out, I had the wise idea to start a 
bottle opening company, of all things. I was working out of my 
garage with a bunch of other active-duty veterans. It is where 
I found out, sir, that you cannot make a corkscrew in the 
United States of America. It blew me away. All of them are made 
overseas. I love what you are doing. As far as trying to bring 
back manufacturing into this country. Unfortunately, I do not 
think it is a workforce issue. I think it is a politician 
issue, and shipping a lot of our manufacturing overseas, which 
is very, very disheartening. I do want to see veterans have the 
opportunity, you know, when possible, to use their GI Bill, 
which they paid into if they decide, or if a 4-year higher 
education track is not what they are looking for. Mr. Lorraine.
    Ms. Kinch. Sir.
    Mr. Crane. Go ahead, ma'am.
    Ms. Kinch. I just wanted to clarify the current iteration 
as well as the post-911 GI bill are not paid into.
    Mr. Crane. Oh, really?
    Ms. Kinch. Yes.
    Mr. Crane. Interesting. Okay.
    Mr. Lorraine. Just really--I brought up apprenticeships. 
Apprenticeships are opportunities that are a GI bill-like 
program. The problem is that the housing stipend decreases over 
time, makes it unattractive.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Van Orden. You are welcome, Mr. Crane. I appreciate it 
greatly. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin, for correcting that. 
Apparently, I am a little older than you, Doc, because I swear 
I heard VA. Son of a--hey, but we will sit down and talk about 
this, and I think you will see the clarity of thought there.
    Mr. Luis y Prado. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. I want to thank you all. I want to thank you 
all for coming. I really do. This is an incredibly important 
topic, and you guys are doing the work, and gals, you are doing 
the work, and I am just so proud of you. We owe each other a 
debt that does not get repaid. It simply does not.
    If we can, through our work up here with your work out 
there and with you guys in the back and I was yelling at you, 
sir, from the DoD, if all of us can get together and prevent 
one veteran from committing suicide and preventing one veteran 
from winding up sleeping in a bush, then all of this is worth 
it. I want to thank you very much.
    I want you also to understand that we are not done with 
TAP. We will be working--bless you--we will be working 
diligently to make sure that we can get the best product to the 
most amount of people, to our brothers and sisters that have 
served this country. Again, thank you very much. With that, 
Ranking Member Levin, do you have any closing comments?
    Mr. Levin. I just want to thank everybody for the work they 
do each and every day that is often overlooked. It is 
incredibly important, and we are grateful for it. I thank the 
chairman for his outstanding hearing today.
    Mr. Van Orden. All right. I ask unanimous consent that all 
members may have 5 legislative days to revise and extend their 
remarks and include extraneous materials.
    Without objection, so ordered. This hearing stands 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:55 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]



      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                    Prepared Statement of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                    Prepared Statement of Alex Baird

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and distinguished members 
of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you 
for this oversight hearing on the Transition Assistance Program (TAP).
    The Department is committed to supporting our Warfighters and their 
families as they navigate the transition from military to civilian 
life. Required for all Service members with 180 days or more of 
continuous active duty, TAP is the essential foundation of that 
support, setting the conditions for successful transition. Each year, 
TAP provides approximately 200,000 Service members with a common level 
of support--regardless of location, Service, or component--at over 200 
locations around the globe. The over-arching result is that today's TAP 
provides Service members and their spouses more comprehensive 
transition preparation, information, support, and services than at any 
time during our Nation's history.
    TAP provides broad-ranging information, training, resources, and 
support that effectively prepares Service members for success as they 
navigate through the challenges and opportunities presented during the 
transition from active duty to civilian life. This support enables and 
empowers Service members to leverage their skills, knowledge, and 
abilities to reach their full potential, achieve individual post-
transition goals, and continue to serve our Nation as successful 
Veterans who strengthen their communities.
    Since its inception in 1991, TAP has undergone sweeping changes. 
These changes have ensured that TAP is relevant, progressive, and ever-
improving to meet the needs of the transitioning Service member 
population. TAP's design ensures both flexibility and relevance. The 
flexibility afforded by the current TAP design, allowing tailoring of 
the transition process to individual needs and goals, ensures that 
Service members receive information and resources that best support 
individualized preparation for transition. The relevance of TAP, 
focused on preparation for civilian life, ensures Service member buy-in 
and active participation. The effectiveness of this programmatic 
flexibility and relevance makes the Department and the TAP Interagency 
Partnership confident in saying that TAP works.
    TAP works in large part because of the dynamic TAP interagency 
Partnership, a best-in-class example of effective Federal agency 
collaboration and service delivery. Seven Federal agencies and the 
Military Services comprise the TAP Interagency Partnership. The 
Interagency Partnership is a formal collaborative body committed to 
supporting and facilitating success for transitioning Service members 
to civilian life by providing synergy, consistency, and synchronization 
in TAP design and delivery. TAP delivery is a collaborative effort 
between the Department of Defense and the Military Services, the 
Department of Labor, the Department of Veterans Affairs, and the Small 
Business Administration, each with a primary area of responsibility and 
focus. TAP succeeds due to a robust interagency collaboration among the 
four agencies and Military Services listed above, along with program 
development and oversight support from three additional agencies - the 
Department of Homeland Security, the Department of Education, and the 
U.S. Office of Personnel Management.
    TAP is an individualized, robust program with alternate pathways 
and multiple levels of assistance. Each step of the process is guided 
by trained counselors, allowing Service members to be in control of 
their transition and use programs, resources, and information that fit 
their specific needs and align with their post-transition goals.
    TAP begins with an Initial Counseling (IC) session initiated no 
later than 365 days prior to separation, with retirees strongly 
encouraged to begin TAP 24 months prior to retirement. During the 
individualized counseling session with a trained TAP counselor, a 
Service member completes a personal self-assessment and begins 
development of an Individual Transition Plan (ITP). Based on the 
personal self-assessment and counseling, the TAP counselor assigns the 
Service member to a transition tier level. The assigned tier level--one 
(minimal assistance), two (medium assistance), or three (most 
assistance)--determines the transition assistance a Service member 
needs. Each individual Service member's tier alignment details which 
TAP components, courses, and Career Readiness Standards (CRS) are 
mandatory. While the required elements associated with each tier are 
standardized, each Service delivers a Service-specific self-assessment, 
allowing maximum flexibility and alignment with the individual Service 
culture.
    Once the IC is complete, the Service member attends the Pre-
Separation Counseling Brief (Pre-Sep). Pre-Sep informs the Service 
member of various services, benefits, and resources available during 
and after transition. The Pre-Sep also familiarizes the Service member 
with available resources and content within the TAP courses. This 
provides the Service member with the knowledge and flexibility to 
determine when to use services based on individual needs and timeline 
for transition. Regardless of tier level, five core courses are 
mandatory for all transitioning Service members: Managing Your 
Transition, Military Occupational Code Crosswalk, Financial Planning 
for Transition, VA Benefits and Services, and DOL Employment 
Fundamentals for Career Transition.
    Along with the core curriculum, TAP includes four two-day courses 
(tracks) to provide focused information and resources that are aligned 
with specific post-transition goals. The four tracks are employment, 
vocational, education, and entrepreneurship. Regardless of tier, 
Service members must elect a track based on individual post-transition 
goals and are encouraged to attend the track-specific course. However, 
only those determined as Tier Level 3 are required to attend the 
elected track. Military Departments may exempt Service members 
determined as Tier Level 2 from track attendance based on the results 
of their self-assessment and IC. Service members determined as Tier 
Level 1 are exempt from track attendance, but are strongly encouraged 
to attend their elected track. While Service members must elect one 
track during IC, the Department strongly encourages attendance at any 
additional track(s) that would provide valuable information for their 
transition.
    Conducted no later than 90 days before transition from active duty, 
Capstone is the final component of TAP. During Capstone, the Commander 
or Commander's Designee reviews the Service member's transition journey 
to determine completion of all applicable components. Not fulfilling 
one of the identified components requires a warm handover by the 
Commander or designee. A warm handover facilitates the Service members' 
transition to the appropriate interagency partner such as the 
Department of Veterans Affairs or the Department of Labor. It is 
designed to create a connection between the Service member and the 
appropriate partner or agency with the resources to assist in 
transition and beyond. Service members may also request a warm handover 
from the TAP counselor.
    The Department uses the Transition Assistance Participant 
Assessment (TAPA) to capture Service member experiences and knowledge 
gained. TAPA, along with diverse assessments from both governmental and 
non-governmental entities, allows the TAP Interagency Partnership to 
evaluate TAP, the perception of TAP, and the quality of the counseling 
and instruction provided. The TAPA measures participants' knowledge of 
the information presented during training and compiles participant 
satisfaction on the quality of instruction, content, and facilities. 
The TAPA also captures basic demographics, such as gender. 
Participation in the TAPA is voluntary and anonymous. However, the 
Department encourages Service members to complete the TAPA after each 
TAP course.
    For an effective TAP, Service members must obtain training relevant 
to their individual post-transition goals. To assess the effectiveness 
of TAP, the Department examines whether Service members take the track 
associated with their post-transition goal and complete the associated 
CRS. For example, if a Service member indicates employment as a post-
transition goal, the Service member may elect to attend the DOL 
Employment Track and provide a completed resume to meet the CRS. 
Attendance at the track aligned with the identified post-transition 
goal provides the necessary training for successful transition. To 
evaluate the effectiveness of the training, the Department analyzes the 
elected track, track attendance, alignment with post-transition goal, 
and the completed CRS data points.
    Military-to-civilian transition is an ever-evolving, complex, and 
multi-faceted environment in which individual goals can be as unique as 
each transitioning Service member. TAP is, and must remain, adaptive 
while vigilantly maintaining programmatic focus on two foundational and 
complimentary tenets: effective counseling and Service member buy-in. 
Correspondingly, TAP will sustain emphasis on an individualized 
approach that best meets Service member's post-transition goals. To 
that end, TAP will remain innovative, responsive, transparent, and 
collaborative. The Department, working closely with the Service 
members, Military Services, interagency partners, and non-governmental 
entities, and Congress, will continuously improve transition services 
and support. Together, the TAP interagency partners will build on 
current successes and achieve ever-improving outcomes for TAP-eligible 
Service members from all Components. This will be achieved by providing 
agile, adaptive, and individualized support and services, and address 
barriers that inhibit a successful transition to civilian life.
    In closing, Mr. Chairman, I thank you, the Ranking Member, and the 
members of this Subcommittee for your outstanding and continuing 
support of the men and women who proudly wear the uniform in defense of 
our great Nation.
                                 ______
                                 

                   Prepared Statement of Cheryl Rawls

    Chairman Derrick Van Orden, Ranking Member Mike Levin, and 
distinguished members of the Subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity 
to appear before you today to discuss the Transition Assistance Program 
(TAP) and what steps should be made to continue modernizing and 
reforming the program. I want to express my appreciation for your 
continued support of the Nation's Veterans, their families, caregivers 
and survivors. Within VA, our focus is on increasing transparency, 
improving collaboration, and keeping Veterans at the center of 
everything we do. This mission is personal and professional for me, 
having previously served my country and now serving Veterans, their 
loved ones and caregivers through VA.

Transition Assistance Program

    Established in 1991, TAP is an interagency effort designed to help 
more than 200,000 transitioning Service members annually. Together with 
the Department of Defense (DoD), Department of Labor (DOL), the Small 
Business Administration (SBA), the Department of Homeland Security, the 
Department of Education, the Office of Personnel Management and other 
agencies, we equip Service members with the tools they need to succeed 
in civilian life, and we connect them with the benefits and services 
they have earned and deserve. In partnership, we take a comprehensive 
approach to care, ensuring TAP is a tailored program that evolves with 
the changing needs of transitioning Service members.
    To that end, TAP has a robust governance structure under the 
Transition Assistance Program Executive Council (TAP-EC) and Joint 
Executive Committee (JEC). The TAP-EC is comprised of multiple working 
groups that provide oversight and input into course curriculum, data 
sharing, employment, performance management, the Reserve Component, 
strategic communications, and available supportive services. The JEC 
co-chaired by the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and 
Readiness and the Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs serves as the 
primary Federal interagency body for overseeing transition assistance 
activities for Active and Reserve Component Service members.
    Recent legislative changes in the transition space, including the 
``John S. McCain National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 
2019'' (NDAA 2019), P.L. 115-232, have been impactful. Requiring 
Service members to begin TAP no later than 365 days prior to separation 
or release from active duty, and as soon as possible in the 24 months 
prior to retirement has underscored the importance of engaging in 
conversations about transition early and often. Shortly after NDAA 2019 
was enacted on August 13, 2018, VA, in concert with our TAP interagency 
partners, approved the Military to Civilian Readiness (M2C Ready) 
Pathway, a joint agency effort designed to better connect Service 
members, Veterans and their families with available resources to 
support their transition.

Military to Civilian Readiness (M2C Ready)

    In alignment with and in support of Presidential goals to improve 
the customer experience across Federal programs, the JEC approved the 
M2C Ready framework in September 2019. M2C Ready defines transition as 
365-days pre-and 365-days post-separation. M2C Ready meets and builds 
upon several components of the President's Management Agenda. The 
framework ensures that transitioning Service members, recently 
separated Service members and Veterans (1) receive comprehensive, 
standardized and individualized assessments across VA and DoD, (2) are 
informed and educated about all post-separation VA, DOL and DoD 
benefits and services they are eligible for, (3) are equipped with the 
tools they need to succeed and reintegrate into their communities and 
(4) achieve sustainable economic well-being.

VA TAP Curriculum

    TAP consists of five core curricula shared among the interagency 
partners. These courses are developed and maintained through these 
partnerships to ensure continuity, consistency and relevance while 
reducing redundancy for the transitioning Service members. VA, DoD, DOL 
and SBA collaborate through an annual evaluation process by reviewing 
and approving the TAP curricula through the interagency governance 
structure. Each agency is responsible for the delivery or facilitation 
of its curriculum.
    The 1-day VA Benefits and Services (BAS) course helps Service 
members and their families understand how to navigate the resources 
within VA, including how to access the benefits and services they have 
earned through their military careers. More specifically, the BAS 
course provides the skills, resources and tools needed to support 
emotional and physical health; career readiness; and economic stability 
in civilian life. During FY 2022 (FY 2022), VA Benefits Advisors 
delivered the BAS course to 160,916 transitioning Service members 
during an in-person classroom environment and to 84,795 transitioning 
Service members on a virtual platform. In addition, in FY 2022, VA 
Benefits Advisors conducted 335,761 individual touchpoints, following 
the 1-day BAS course, with Service members, military spouses, 
caregivers and survivors across all VA's transition assistance 
offerings at over 300 military installations worldwide. The BAS course 
currently has a 97.3 percent satisfaction rating for in-person course 
delivery. VA continues to seek opportunities for improvement by 
conducting site visits, quality assurance evaluations and, most 
recently, Human Centered Design research to channel direct Service 
member and Veteran feedback about the transition experience into 
action.
    In addition to the BAS course, Service members and their families 
may access Military Life Cycle (MLC) modules to access information 
about VA's benefits and services at their own pace and when they need 
that information most. MLC modules are 45-to 60-minute information 
sessions that can be taken anytime throughout a Service member's 
career. The sessions are especially valuable after major events such as 
permanent changes of station, marriage or the birth of a child. Each 
MLC module addresses a specific in-depth topic. In FY 2022, 5,280 
Service members participated in MLCs. Available MLC modules include:

      Reserve Component Dual Payments

      Social and Emotional Health Resources

      Survivor and Casualty Assistance Resources

      VA Benefits 101

      VA Education Benefits

      VA Home Loan Guaranty Program

      VA Life Insurance Benefits

      Vet Centers

      Community Integration Resources

      VA Education and Training Benefits for Spouses and 
Dependents

      Mental Health for Families

      Disability Compensation

    Future micro-learning opportunities will cover topics related to 
Other than Honorable (OTH) discharge; lesbian, gay, bisexual, 
transgender, and queer plus (LGBTQ+) specific benefits; and services 
available to military spouses and families and will incorporate 
insights from our Human Centered Design research. In FY 2022, 5,490 
military spouses, caregivers and Veterans attended BAS briefings, as 
well as accessed MLC modules in person or online through TAP 
events.mil. A Common Access Card-enabled device is not required to 
access the courses. VA Benefits Advisors also are available through 
one-on-one assistance sessions to answer questions, explain benefits 
and connect spouses to helpful resources, including education and 
employment benefits.

Women's Health Transition Training

    The Women's Health Transition Training (WHTT) is a five-phase web-
based training course that can be taken anytime, anywhere and is open 
to all Service women and women Veterans. Topics include transitioning 
to civilian life, health benefits (emphasizing women-specific needs), 
mental well-being, managing health care, eligibility and transition 
assistance resources

Separation Health Assessment

    The Separation Health Assessment is an initiative of the VA/DoD 
that JEC designed to yield mutual benefits in support of Service 
members during separation. The objective is to establish a consistent 
opportunity for Service members to discuss events, illnesses and 
injuries incurred or aggravated during service. Service members must 
meet statutory and policy requirements for a Separation Health 
Assessment before transitioning from active-duty service. To ensure 
Service members' health care needs are addressed before separating, VA 
and DoD screen for medical retainability and provide final 
documentation in the service treatment record that VA can use to help 
determine service connections in evaluating future disability claims. 
In January 2022, the Deputy Secretary of Veterans Affairs and the Under 
Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness signed a new 
Memorandum of Agreement on Separation Health Assessments that details 
the joint partnership for consistent application of the Separation 
Health Assessment. The VA-DoD agreement includes continuity of health 
care (physical and mental) and improvements to transition support 
plans. The Departments are committed to improving the efficiency of the 
separation examination process for transitioning Service members.

Enhanced Statement of Benefits

    In September 2020, the JEC approved the concept of an enhanced 
individualized statement of benefits at discharge. The Enhanced 
Statement of Benefits will provide transitioning Service members and/or 
recently separated Veterans with personalized information about their 
specific benefits and services statement, based on their input and in 
one centralized application. The TAP Executive Council approved the 
implementation plan in March 2021 and is presently in the program 
development phase.

VA Health Care Support for Transitioning Service Members

    The health and overall well-being of Veterans is a top priority. VA 
recognizes that the first year of transition out of military service is 
crucial for Service members and Veterans. The first year following 
discharge from active-duty service, in particular, may pose significant 
challenges, including homelessness, difficulties with family 
reintegration, unemployment, posttraumatic stress disorder and 
substance use, which can increase the risk for suicide. Veterans and 
former Service members with an OTH discharge in acute suicidal crisis 
are eligible for emergent suicide care in VA facilities and in the 
community. In addition, ongoing mental health care is available to 
former Service members with an OTH discharge, including reservists, who 
meet the eligibility criteria in 38 U.S.C. Sec.  1720I. This important 
information and other mental health resources and care are shared with 
transitioning Service members and Veterans at multiple touchpoints 
throughout their transition journey.
    VA programs like the VA Liaison and Post 9/11 Transition and Case 
Management bridge the gap between DoD and the Veterans Health 
Administration (VHA) to support transitioning Service members and Post 
9/11 era Veterans.

VA Solid Start

    The VA Solid Start program launched on December 2, 2019, as part of 
the M2C Ready Pathway, to make early, consistent and caring contact 
with newly separated Veterans. VA Solid Start proactively calls all 
eligible Veterans at three key stages (90-, 180-and 365-days post-
separation) during their first year after separation from active duty. 
Using data provided by DoD, VA Solid Start provides priority contact to 
Veterans meeting certain mental health risk factors, helping to target 
and provide access and continuity of care for mental health. VA Solid 
Start representatives address challenges the Veteran may be facing at 
the time of the call by connecting the Veteran with the appropriate 
benefit or resources for assistance. These representatives receive 
special training to recognize the signs of crisis and, when needed, can 
provide a direct transfer to the Veterans Crisis Line for additional 
support.
    In FY 2022, VA Solid Start successfully connected with 175,369 
recently separated Veterans, surpassing its goal of a 50 percent 
successful connection rate by achieving a rate of 64 percent. As a 
subset of this group, VA Solid Start successfully connected with 
29,042, or 78 percent, of eligible Priority Veterans, helping to lower 
the barrier to accessing mental health care. On October 17, 2022, the 
Solid Start Act of 2022 was signed into law (P.L. 117-205), permanently 
authorizing VA to expand the Solid Start Program with DoD coordination. 
VBA will continue to utilize multi-channel engagement efforts to 
further improve the successful connection rates with all VASS-eligible 
Veterans.

Network of Support Pilot

    The Veterans Comprehensive Prevention, Access to Care, and 
Treatment Act of 2020 (Veterans COMPACT Act of 2020), P.L. 116-214, was 
signed into law on December 5, 2020. The Veterans COMPACT Act of 2020 
calls for a pilot program that allows Veterans to designate up to ten 
people to receive information on specified services and benefits from 
VA. The intent of the program is to provide each Veteran with a Network 
of Support made up of friends and family members they select who can 
help them better understand and apply for the benefits they have 
earned. The Network of Support pilot was launched in December 2021 and 
will run through December 2023. During FY 2022, VA developed and 
obtained Office of Management and Budget approval for the required 
survey, which was conducted in December 2022 and will be conducted 
again December 2023.

Personalized Career Planning and Guidance

    Personalized Career Planning and Guidance (PCPG), also known as 
Chapter 36, fulfills 38 U.S.C. Sec.  3697A by supporting transitioning 
Service members, Veterans and qualified dependents by offering 
personalized career and academic counseling to achieve goals and 
ensuring the use of VA benefits. Since the inception of the PCPG 
program in FY 2021, PCPG has provided career and academic services to 
over 6,000 transitioning Service Members, Veterans and eligible 
dependents. Currently, for FY 2023, PCPG has received 4,700 
applications.

VA SkillBridge

    VA SkillBridge successfully launched in February 2020 and focuses 
on supporting Service members who are entering into careers with VA. VA 
SkillBridge provides Active Duty transitioning Service members with 
employment training, internship and apprenticeship opportunities during 
their last 180 days of service. The program offers valuable civilian 
work experience to better prepare Active duty transitioning Service 
members for post-separation employment. VA SkillBridge is executed in 
partnership with DoD and, since its launch in February 2020, VA has 
engaged with 44 organizations that have either established or are 
interested in establishing a VA SkillBridge program for transitioning 
Service members. There are currently 20 VA entities that have cohorts 
in progress for transitioning Service members under the Memorandum of 
Understanding.

Additional Post Separation Touchpoints

    The last step of the M2C Ready Pathway ensures continuity of 
support during the 365 days post-transition and beyond. This step 
starts with person-to-person connections via warm handovers, where the 
interagency partner acknowledges that an eligible Service member 
requires post-military assistance. In agreement, the interagency 
partner follows through on assisting the needs of the Service member, 
mitigating risk and assisting the Service member in attaining post-
transition goals and a successful transition.
    The Transition Service Member Resource Connection (TSMRC) Pilot 
launched in May 2022 and has 30 DoD military installation participants. 
TSMRC provides a single point of entry for DoD TAP Managers who 
initiate a warm handover to VA during Capstone (90 days before 
separation). This single point of entry allows for near real-time 
tracking and validation of warm handover connections. It also supports 
warm handovers to VA in areas of education, disability compensation, 
healthcare, housing, mental health resources and other VA services. 
During the course of the pilot, 100 percent (116) of transitioning 
Service members who needed a warm handover were connected to VA by DoD 
TAP Managers. The pilot was recently expanded (on March 1, 2023) to 
support DoD's pilot, the Enterprise Individual Self-Assessment (EISA), 
which is expected to run until the spring of 2024.

Sexual Trauma Health Care Assistance

    The Sexual Trauma Working Group was formally established as a JEC 
Independent Working Group in alignment with the VA-DoD Joint Strategic 
Plan for FY 2019-FY 2021. In FY 2022, this working group outlined three 
priorities to address: Sexual Trauma Health Care Assistance, Sexual 
Trauma Benefits Assistance and Sexual Trauma Transition Assistance. 
Ultimately, the primary focus of the Sexual Trauma Working Group is to 
maintain a standard of coordinated care for Service members who 
experience sexual trauma during military service. This focus includes 
connections and coordination between DoD Sexual Assault Response 
Coordinators and VHA Military Sexual Trauma Coordinators, as well as 
annual training to educate Sexual Assault Response Coordinators about 
VA services.

Statutory Updates

    Johnny Isakson and David P. Roe, M.D. Veterans Health Care and 
Benefits Improvement Act of 2020

    On January 5, 2021, the Johnny Isakson and David P. Roe, M.D. 
Veterans Health Care and Benefits Improvement Act of 2020 (P.L. 116-
315) was signed into law and included several provisions related to 
transition assistance.
    Section 4304 requires the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to make 
grants available to eligible organizations that specialize in providing 
transition services to former Service members who are separated, 
retired or discharged, as well as to their spouses. These transition 
services consist of resume assistance, interview training, job 
recruitment training and related services leading to a successful 
transition. VA is working rigorously to meet all requirements of this 
section to develop the framework for a robust Veteran Transitional 
Assistance Grant Program. VA continues the process to hire staff, 
establish a Grants Management Office and implement a technology 
solution. We anticipate the program will be fully implemented in early 
FY 2024.
    Section 4305 requires the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, in 
consultation with the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of Labor, 
Administrator of the SBA, and the Secretaries of the military 
departments, to enter into an agreement with an appropriate entity that 
has experience in adult education to conduct a 1-year independent 
assessment of TAP. This assessment has been completed and currently is 
pending final signatures before submission to Congress.
    Section 4306 requires the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, in 
consultation with the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of Labor, and 
the Administrator of SBA, to conduct a 5-year longitudinal study on 
three cohorts who are going through TAP and are defined by specific 
attributes. VA is leveraging the Post-Separation Transition Assessment 
(PSTAP) Outcomes to meet the requirements of section 4306. PSTAP is a 
multi-year study to analyze the effect of TAP participation. It seeks 
to assess the long-term outcomes of Veterans in the broad life domains 
of employment; education; health and social relationships; financial; 
overall satisfaction; and well-being. The first annual Congressional 
progress report for section 4306 is pending final signatures for 
submission to Congress.

    Commander John Scott Hannon Veterans Mental Health Improvement Act 
of 2019

    The Commander John Scott Hannon Veterans Mental Health Care 
Improvement Act of 2019 (P.L. 116-171) was signed into law on October 
17, 2020, and includes provisions regarding mental health care and 
suicide prevention programs. The Act includes seven titles with 34 
sections.
    Title I of the Act covers improvement of transition of individuals 
to services from VA and requires a 5-year (FY 2015-2020) retrospective, 
joint VA/DoD review of records of each former Service member who died 
by suicide within 1 year of their release from Active Duty. In 
completing this review with respect to a former member of the Armed 
Forces, DoD and VA must consider whether DoD had identified the former 
member as being at elevated risk of suicide during the 365 days before 
separation and, in the case the member was identified as being at 
elevated risk, whether that was communicated by DoD to VA via the Solid 
Start initiative or any other means. The JEC co-chairs chose to 
establish a working group to manage and track this effort because the 
requirements crossed various lanes within VA and DoD. Work to date 
includes cohort identification, receipt of $2.05 million in Joint 
Incentive Funding for DoD contract staff and advances in planning for 
data acquisition, analyses and development of the Congressional report.

VA Collaborations

    To improve the transition process, VA collaborates with other 
agencies across Federal programs, as well as with local and State 
agencies and other partners. One large-scale program, the Economic 
Development Initiatives (EDI) effort, spans across military and 
civilian sectors. EDI aims to connect military members, Veterans and 
spouses in specific geographic communities with information and 
resources that promote economic well-being. This effort includes 
hosting job fairs to link Veterans directly with resources, including 
disability claims clinics and career opportunities. EDI also provides 
support and employment assistance for military and Veteran spouses.
    In FY 2022, VA in partnership with DoD and DoL applied Human 
Centered Design to better understand the experiential needs and desires 
of transitioning Service members, recently separated Veterans and their 
families navigating military transition. The results of this research 
are being used to improve and enhance programs and services internally 
to VA and across the Federal Government, which also strives to serve as 
an employer of choice for Veterans, through statutory hiring 
preferences/authorities and workforce initiatives.
    On December 13, 2021, President Biden signed Executive Order 14058, 
Transforming Federal Customer Experience and Service Delivery to 
Rebuild Trust in Government. Soon after the executive order was signed, 
five priority Life Experience projects were announced as opportunity 
areas for cross-agency partnership. The experience of Navigating 
Military Transition was one of the selected lifecycle journeys. DoD, 
the Department of Education, the Department of Homeland Security, the 
Department of Housing and Urban Development, DoL, VA, the General 
Services Administration, the Office of Management and Budget, the 
Office of Personnel Management, the Small Business Administration and 
representation from all military branches have partnered to use Human 
Centered Design to understand major pain points and design solutions 
that improve and simplify the transition experience.
    This cross-agency collaborative currently is working to define a 
minimum viable product, that is a digital solution. This solution is 
intended to help address three of the four areas of opportunity 
identified in research. The cross-agency collaborative will continue 
work through the rest of this year in packaging recommendations for 
potential solutions that can be developed and implemented in the coming 
FY and beyond.
    In addition to the cross-agency effort, VA has used the research to 
improve its programs and services. The improvements include the 
following: developing an OTH discharge Journey Map, developing more 
focused communication strategies, modifying the VA TAP curriculum based 
on Service member feedback, integrating more quick response (QR) codes 
into the curriculum for ease of access to benefits and services and 
developing 12 new special emphasis Military Life Cycle modules to 
include OTH, LGBTQ+, Military Sexual Trauma and Rural Veterans to name 
a few.
    This year, VA will host its Second Annual VA Transition Symposium 
on July 27-28, 2023. This symposium will build upon last year's 
synergies and focus on how VA can connect transitioning Service members 
and Veterans with community resources at the State and local levels. 
The forum also will provide a platform for VA stakeholders to learn 
more about transition supportive programs, identify opportunities to 
better coordinate transition services and build and strengthen 
community relationships.
    Since 2017, VA has worked with TAP interagency partners to host and 
participate in the Military to Civilian Transition (MTC) summit. The 
MTC Summit brings together stakeholders from the public and private 
sectors to discuss the military to civilian transition not only for 
Service members and Veterans but also for their families, caregivers 
and survivors. VA looks forward to coordinating with DOL, this year's 
host.

Opportunities for Enhancement

    VA frequently assesses for needed changes and opportunities for 
growth. Three areas for improvement include the need for increased: 
Collaboration with Veterans Service Organizations (VSOs), Data Sharing, 
and Spousal and Family Engagements.

        (1) Collaboration with VSOs. VA understands the importance of 
        collaboration with its internal and external partners, 
        including VSOs that serve as advocates for the well-being of 
        the Veteran community and provide exceptional support to 
        transitioning Service members and their families. We are 
        working toward enhancing our relationship with VSOs to ensure 
        we integrate them into the VA TAP curriculum and provide an 
        avenue for increased connection with transitioning Service 
        members.

        (2) Data Sharing. Currently, there are barriers to interagency 
        data sharing and data availability that make it challenging to 
        assess Veteran outcomes. By having the legislative authority to 
        require other agencies to provide VA with Veteran data, VA will 
        enhance its ability to assess Veteran outcomes holistically. In 
        addition, we must continue to formalize and enhance data-
        sharing efforts with State Veterans Affairs offices to ensure 
        that they know when Service members are relocating to their 
        States and that Service members understand the role their 
        States can play in their transition plans and overall well-
        being.

        (3) Spousal and Family Engagements. VA is seeking to improve 
        messaging and marketing to military spouses and younger 
        Veterans about the many resources and programs available to 
        them before, during and after their transition.

Conclusion

    TAP has undergone major enhancements since its inception in 1991. 
These ongoing modifications have ensured that TAP remains a relevant 
program that meets the changing needs of the transitioning Service 
member population. We continue to put the transitioning Service member 
experience at the center of everything we do. VA is committed to 
ensuring that the partnership between VA and DoD is aligned, enduring 
and strong, with a shared focus on putting the needs of Service 
members, Veterans and their families first. We seek continuous 
improvements, recognizing the driving factors are the major life events 
impacting Veterans and their families today.
    VA shares Congress' goal of ensuring Service members and their 
families are supported as they transition from military to civilian 
life and will remain dedicated to strengthening our transition 
initiatives. Chairman Derrick Van Orden, Ranking Member Mike Levin, 
this concludes my testimony. I am happy to respond to any questions you 
or the Subcommittee may have.
                                 ______
                                 

                 Prepared Statement of Margarita Devlin

                              Introduction

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and distinguished Members 
of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify before 
you today on the current state of the Transition Assistance Program 
(TAP) across the armed services and the steps that should be made to 
continue modernizing and reforming the program. It is always a pleasure 
to testify before this Subcommittee. This month marks my 28th 
anniversary as a career federal employee, and I am honored to have 
served veterans for my entire tenure in government.
    After almost two years serving in my current role at the Department 
of Labor (DOL) Veterans' Employment and Training Service (VETS), I have 
seen firsthand the passion, talent, dedication, and innovative spirit 
of our employees, many of whom are veterans themselves. Our partners 
across the interagency space are also incredibly dedicated. We have 
worked hard, together, to continue to improve programs in support of 
military to civilian transition. And, we will never stop innovating and 
improving because our service members and veterans deserve nothing 
less.
    VETS' mission is to prepare America's veterans, service members, 
and military spouses for meaningful careers, provide them with 
employment resources and expertise, protect their employment rights, 
and promote their employment opportunities. VETS administers programs 
designed to address the employment, training, and job security needs of 
over 196,000 military service members who transition to civilian life 
each year,\1\ 8.8 million military veterans in the U.S. civilian labor 
force,\2\ over 770,000 National Guard and Reserve members,\3\ and 
nearly 950,000 military spouses (594,110 active duty and 354,255 Guard 
and Reserve spouses).\4\ Along with our partners, we are committed to 
ensuring the best transition for our service members and their 
families.
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    \1\ Department of Defense (DoD), Improvements to the Transition 
Assistance Program (TAP) Congressional Report, August 2022.
    \2\ Civilian noninstitutional population aged 18 years and over. 
Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) - 2022: https://www.bls.gov/
cps/cpsaat48.htm
    \3\ Department of Defense (DoD), Defense Manpower Data Center, 
Military Personnel Report, Selected Reserve Personnel by Reserve 
Component and Rank/Grade (Updated Monthly), September 2022: https://
dwp.dmdc.osd.mil/dwp/app/dod-data-reports/workforce-reports
    \4\ Military OneSource--DemographicsProfile,2021: https://
demographics.militaryonesource.mil/
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                              TAP Overview

    TAP provides training, resources, and assistance to separating and 
retiring service members on active duty, Guard, Reserve, and their 
spouses, as defined in 10 U.S.C. 1144. TAP is a cooperative effort by 
DOL VETS, the Department of Defense (DoD), the Department of Education 
(ED), the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), the Department of 
Veterans Affairs (VA), the Small Business Administration (SBA), and the 
Office of Personnel Management (OPM).
    Congress originally established TAP in the National Defense 
Authorization Act for Fiscal Year (FY) 1991 (P.L. 101-510). This 
enactment authorized the development of a voluntary program consisting 
of transition assistance counseling and employment assistance for 
separating service members and their spouses. In 2011, the Veterans 
Opportunity to Work (VOW) Act (P.L. 112-56) mandated TAP participation 
for all transitioning service members--including pre-separation 
counseling and completion of courses provided by the newly established 
interagency partnerships--to start no later than 90 days prior to an 
anticipated date of transition. DOL, DoD, VA, and SBA collaborated to 
prepare new curricula and expand training, education, and transition 
activities to include Career Readiness Standards, a set of common and 
specified activities for service members to achieve.
    The most recent legislative change to TAP occurred with the John S. 
McCain National Defense Authorization Act for FY 2019 (P.L. 115-232), 
which requires TAP classes to occur no later than 365 days prior to an 
anticipated date of separation or release from active duty, or 24 
months prior to retirement. These requirements allowed TAP to evolve 
from a one-size-fits-all program where service members had to 
transition to civilian life in a condensed timeframe to an 
individualized program tailored specifically to the needs of each 
service member under a more suitable timeline.

  Service Members Attend TAP Employment Workshops in Record-Breaking 
                                Numbers

    In FY 2022, service members and military spouses attended VETS' TAP 
employment workshops in record-breaking numbers. TAP employment 
workshops provided instruction to 266,127 total participants,\5\ which 
is an over 40 percent increase from the previous workshop record of 
188,924 total participants in FY 2021. There are three core VETS TAP 
employment workshops. VETS is responsible for the delivery of the 
Employment Fundamentals of Career Transition (EFCT) Workshop, which is 
a mandatory, one-day course for employment preparation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Note that an individual service member may attend more than one 
workshop. References to the total number of TAP workshop participants 
do not track individual unique participants

      One-Day EFCT Workshop: The EFCT lays the foundation for 
transitioning from military to civilian life, introducing the essential 
tools and resources needed to evaluate career options, gain information 
for civilian employment, and understand the fundamentals of the 
employment process. In FY 2022, VETS provided EFCT workshops to 149,229 
participants, which is a 35.8 percent increase compared to 109,888 EFCT 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
participants in FY 2021.

    Based on service members' individual needs, VETS offers two 
elective tracks to acquire additional skills via a two-day workshop: 
(1) the DOL Employment Workshop (DOLEW), and (2) the Career and 
Credential Exploration (C2E) Workshop. Service members must elect one 
two-day track during their individual counseling; however, they are 
encouraged to attend any additional track(s) and attendance to the 
courses more than once (as their unit missions allows) to prepare them 
for their transition.

      Two-Day DOLEW: The DOLEW is intended for those pursuing 
the employment track and covers emerging best practices in career 
employment, including in-depth training to learn interview skills, 
build effective resumes, and use emerging technology to network and 
search for employment. In FY 2022, VETS provided DOLEW workshops to 
82,253 participants, which is a 21.3 percent increase compared to the 
67,762 participants in FY 2021.

      Two-Day C2E Workshop: For those on the vocational track, 
the C2E workshop offers an opportunity for participants to complete a 
personalized career development assessment of their occupational 
interests and abilities. Participants are guided through a variety of 
career considerations, including labor market projections, educational 
opportunities, Registered Apprenticeships, certifications, and 
licensure requirements. In FY 2022, VETS provided C2E workshops to 
15,341 participants, which is a 35.9 percent increase compared to the 
11,284 participants in FY 2021.

    In January 2023, VETS launched its revised EFCT and DOLEW curricula 
based on participants' feedback. Throughout FY 2022, the VETS TAP 
curriculum development team compiled and categorized input from 
stakeholders:

      TAP service members (through survey results and written 
comments);

      DOL TAP facilitators;

      VETS Federal field staff;

      TAP interagency curriculum subject matter experts;

      National Association of State Workforce Agencies (NASWA); 
and

      Veteran Service Organizations (VSO).

    The VETS TAP curriculum development team used the stakeholder input 
to reorganize workshop content, remove redundancies, and improve 
sections on resume writing, federal hiring, interviewing, and salary 
negotiation. VETS piloted the revised curricula at several military 
installations, and made further refinements based on pilot participant 
feedback. VETS is currently following the same process with the C2E 
curriculum. VETS will launch the revised C2E workshop in January 2024.
    VETS workshops are highly rated by attendees. The FY 2023 first 
quarter Transition Assistance Participant Assessment results indicated 
that 97 percent would use what they learned in their own transition 
planning, and 95 percent reported that the EFCT enhanced their 
confidence in transition planning.

    VETS Designs and Implements Two Innovative Employment Workshops

    In addition to the three core VETS employment workshops, VETS 
designed and implemented two other innovative employment workshops to 
address the unique needs of military spouses, caregivers, and our 
wounded, ill, and/or injured service members:

    Military Spouse Employment Curriculum: Of course, our veterans have 
not served their country alone. In recognition of this, VETS developed 
a course curriculum specific to military spouses who are transitioning 
with their service member out of the service or to another 
installation. In February 2021, VETS announced the launch of a monthly 
series of career workshops to provide employment assistance to 
transitioning military spouses, also known as the Transition Employment 
Assistance for Military Spouses' (TEAMS) curriculum. The TEAMS 
workshops are designed to help military spouses plan and prepare for 
their job search in pursuit of their employment goals. Currently, VETS 
offers ten TEAMS courses. The courses use a combination of current 
curriculum components for service members, such as resume development 
and interviewing techniques, and components more specifically tailored 
to the needs of military spouses, who often face frequent moves and the 
complexities associated with State licensing and credentialing 
requirements. In FY 2022, VETS provided 270 workshops to more than 
1,200 military spouses and caregivers. And, we continue to work with 
our partners at DoD to schedule and promote TEAMS events.

    Wounded Warrior and Caregiver Employment Workshop (WWCEW): Each 
year, there are approximately 15,000 transitioning service members who 
are considered wounded, ill, and/or injured, transitioning either 
through their service branch's warrior care or military recovery units 
or through the Integrated Disability Evaluation System (IDES).\6\ In 
April 2022, VETS launched the WWCEW for those being evaluated for a 
disability rating through IDES as an alternative to the required one-
day EFCT. Disabled service members face barriers to completing the 
traditional EFCT, such as coordinating class schedules with medical 
appointments, long class duration, working with medical and health 
restrictions, and requiring caregiver attendance. The curriculum 
includes six self-paced online modules that participants can complete 
at their own pace, and the course interface enables users to meet 
online with a VETS facilitator to ask questions and to discuss 
activities and course content to accommodate the individual's needs. In 
FY 2022, the WWCEW provided instruction to 17,000 participants.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ 2021 DoD Demographics Profile of the Military Community: 
https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/2021-
demographics-report.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two Employment Programs Are Transforming the Interagency Employment TAP 
                                 Space

    In FY 2022, almost 28,000 separating service members participated 
in two interagency employment programs that are rapidly transforming 
the TAP employment space, expanding TAP's information-sharing program 
to include hands-on training and assistance for service members and 
their spouses. 5,369 separating service members and 340 military 
spouses participated in the VETS Employment Navigator and Partnership 
Pilot (ENPP), and 22,548 separating service members participated in the 
DoD SkillBridge Program.

    Employment Navigator and Partnership Pilot: The ENPP began at 13 
military installations worldwide on April 1, 2021. The ENPP leverages 
the Secretary's authority under 10 U.S.C. 1144 to assist transitioning 
service members and their spouses with identifying and connecting to 
employment and training opportunities. The pilot was designed in 
response to feedback from veterans who stated that, while their TAP 
classroom experience was educational, they desired a more personalized 
approach. ENPP provides one-on-one, tailored services for transitioning 
service members and their spouses.
    Through our full-time contract Employment Navigator staff and our 
employment partners, ENPP clients receive assistance with their 
resumes, career direction, as well as referrals to vetted partner 
organizations and American Job Centers (AJC) that provide additional 
personalized support. ENPP Partners are required to select a primary 
service provided across nine possible categories of services, which 
include: digital employment opportunity matching, training services, 
employment mentorship, hiring events, employment networking, Registered 
Apprenticeship opportunities, referrals to employment opportunities, 
placement services, and wrap-around services. A list of our current 
partners can be found on the VETS ENPP Partner Page,\7\ and 
organizations that are interested in partnership with us can submit an 
application form.\8\ As of March 31, 2023, ENPP served over 9,279 
transitioning service members and 633 military spouses since its 
launch.
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    \7\ https://www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/programs/tap/employment-
navigator-partnership/enpp-partnerships
    \8\ https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/VETS/files/tap/
DOLVETSENPPPotentialPartnerApplicationForm.pdf
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    A key component of ENPP is that no later than 90 days prior to 
separating, transitioning service members will go through Capstone, a 
process by which the military service branch evaluates whether service 
members have met the Career Readiness Standards (CRS). To meet the 
employment track CRS, a service member must have either a completed 
resume or confirmation of employment. If a service member fails to meet 
the CRS, they are provided a ``warm handover,'' a person-to-person 
connection between the transitioning service member and an AJC, which 
connects them to designated services and followup resources as needed.
    During a warm handover, Employment Navigators (ENs) connect 
transitioning service members to an appropriate AJC point-of-contact, 
who verifies with DOL that a client has connected with the AJC. In 
addition to being connected with the State AJCs where they reside, many 
service members receiving a warm handover also receive services from 
our ENs and partners. VETS believes that providing transitioning 
service members with additional support from ENs will enable more 
service members to meet the CRS and lead to a reduction in the number 
of transitioning service members who are required to receive a warm 
handover for employment.
    According to participant surveys, the ENPP has been a great 
success. As of March 31, 2023, 96 percent of ENPP survey respondents 
reported positive feelings after meeting with their Employment 
Navigator and would recommend ENPP to a friend or colleague. 
Additionally, 98 percent felt ENPP partners met or exceeded their 
employment related expectations. As one ENPP survey respondent stated, 
``The value of the Employment Navigator is having a one-on-one 
conversation to go back over the plethora of information you received 
in TAP classes and give guidance and recommendations specific to your 
situation.'' We are very proud of the progress that has been made 
through ENPP and look forward to continuing and expanding this 
initiative as time and budget allow.
    A particularly noteworthy veteran served by ENPP is Petty Officer 
First Class Michael Santiago, who recently separated from the U.S. Navy 
in Yokosuka, Japan. Michael was hoping to stay in Japan after 
separating from service, but the entire transition process left him 
feeling overwhelmed. Michael knew he would need support to navigate the 
challenges of staying overseas, so he connected with an Employment 
Navigator. The Employment Navigator helped Michael translate his 
military experience into civilian terms, tailor his resume to his 
desired field, use job search tools, and identify additional services, 
as well as connected Michael to ENPP partner, American Corporate 
Partners (ACP). ACP matched Michael with a professional mentor, who 
shared career advice and guidance to help Michael in his career search. 
``Without the constant words of encouragement and support from my 
[Employment Navigator], I would have had an incredibly stressful, and 
miserable time trying to transition into a new career,'' Michael 
shared. ``I thought I was just going to receive basic professional 
services, but I received so much more and really owe a lot to my 
Employment Navigator for being there for me when I was alone in a 
foreign country trying to make it on my own.'' With the help of his 
Employment Navigator, Michael accepted a management role with a Fortune 
500 company in Tokyo. ``Knowing I could reach out to my Employment 
Navigator at any time when I was feeling lost or not confident helped 
me feel empowered in my transition,'' said Michael.

    DoD SkillBridge Program: SkillBridge connects service members with 
industry partners in real-world job experiences, helping bridge the gap 
between the end of service and the beginning of their civilian careers. 
Employers participate in the SkillBridge program to provide 
opportunities for service members through specific industry training, 
Registered Apprenticeships, and internships during their last 180 days 
of service.
    According to DoD, SkillBridge participation increased from 14,336 
service members in FY 2021 to 22,548 in FY 2022, which represents the 
largest single year of program growth since its inception in FY 2016. 
Our Employment Navigators are improving their capability to provide 
timely and relevant career exploration support to pair service members 
with the most appropriate SkillBridge opportunity. Timely access to the 
SkillBridge program and other TAP programs and services is crucial to 
the transition process, especially for those who face more challenges 
in the civilian sector, such as junior enlisted, service members with 
exceptional family members, and those who have unplanned transitions. 
DOL is proud to work with our partners at DoD and employers across the 
United States to promote the SkillBridge program.
    DOL is excited to continue collaboration with Congress, ENPP 
stakeholders, the military services, and employers across the United 
States to annually increase employment-related TAP outcomes created by 
these two emerging interagency TAP employment programs.

            Expanding the Off-Base Transition Training Pilot

    On January 11, 2022, VETS announced the launch of a five-year Off-
Base Transition Training (OBTT) pilot program, in accordance with 
section 4303 of the Johnny Isakson and David P. Roe, M.D. Veterans 
Health Care and Benefits Improvement Act of 2020 (P.L. 116-315), 
enacted on January 5, 2021. Section 4303 directed DOL to provide TAP to 
veterans and the spouses of veterans at locations other than active 
military installations for a period of five years to improve 
employment-related outcomes in areas with high veteran unemployment. 
The OBTT pilot launched in eight metropolitan areas across five states 
(California, Massachusetts, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Texas). 
VETS is currently planning for expansion of OBTT to additional states 
by the end of FY 2023. VETS will select states with high rates of 
veteran unemployment, with preference given to states with a high rate 
of Unemployment Compensation for ex-servicemembers (UCX) usage by 
recently separated veterans.
    OBTT features ten two-hour, instructor-led employment skills and 
workforce development workshops. The workshops cover the following 
topics:

      Marketing Yourself

      My Next Move

      Resume Essentials

      Resume Writing

      Employment Rights

      Federal Hiring

      Interview Skills

      LinkedIn Job Search

      LinkedIn Profiles

      Salary Negotiations

    The OBTT workshops are offered in-person at various times and 
locations in the pilot states, as well as virtually nationwide. In 
2022, 2,116 veterans or spouses of veterans were provided support 
through 1,947 virtual and in-person workshops through OBTT. To increase 
the number of annual OBTT customers and better meet their employment 
needs, Congress may wish to consider expanding OBTT eligibility to 
current serving members of the Guard and Reserve, regardless of veteran 
status, and their spouses.
    Overall, VETS believes that OBTT has been a beneficial resource for 
our veterans, especially for those who have been separated from the 
military for over 10 years, as TAP was not mandatory for most 
separating service members until 2011. As one OBTT participant 
indicated in a survey: ``Over the course of years, I have attended a 
myriad of workshops and acquired much valuable information during the 
presentations. Many of the workshops offered applicable information and 
materials. However, I must say that the workshop presented by OBTT, 
Marketing Yourself and Other Job Search Tactics, was the most 
organized, user friendly, and engaging that I have ever attended. The 
format of the workbooks is excellent. They are now my resource books 
for future questions. I feel prepared to go out and find employment 
that can utilize my skills and interests. Many, many kudos to you and 
your team! My wish and desire is that this workshop continues so others 
can have the opportunity I was afforded.''

                Leveraging Data to Improve TAP Outcomes

    Data analytics and research are the key tools we use to understand 
the effectiveness of our TAP services and improve employment outcomes 
for transitioning service members. Through changes in TAP since the 
passage of the FY 2019 NDAA, VETS is transforming its data collection 
and analysis capabilities around the transition space. Traditionally, 
VETS has only had access to data about TAP workshops and those 
workshops' participants. However, new initiatives, such as ENPP, have 
enabled VETS to access employment outcome information on our 
transitioning service members through the National Directory of New 
Hires at the Department of Health and Human Services. Overall, the past 
year has been a transformative time for DOL's TAP program.
    In FY 2022, TAP employment workshop participation was the highest 
on record since the inception of modern-day TAP in 2011. FY 2022 
participation in DOL TAP workshops were as follows:

      149,229 service members participated in the one-day 
Employment Fundamentals of a Career Transition Workshop (EFCT).

      82,253 service members participated in the two-day 
Employment Workshop (DOLEW).

      15,341 service members participated in the two-day 
Vocational Workshop (C2E).

      17,000 service members participated in the WWCEW 
Workshops.

      1,200 military spouses participated in the TEAMS 
workshops and 1,104 military spouses participated in the three DOL TAP 
mandatory workshops.

    Last year (FY 2022), VETS updated its data-sharing agreement with 
DoD (specifically, the Defense Manpower Data Center) to expand data 
transferred to DOL. Through the Veterans' Data Exchange Initiative 
(VDEI), which started in FY 2016 with DoD, the Department receives a 
daily refresh of information on transitioning service members collected 
on the DD2648 form (Pre-Separation Counseling Checklist) and TAP course 
attendance information. This data allows VETS to monitor DOL Benefit 
briefing attendance, DOL-provided TAP services, and receipt of warm 
handovers, and ultimately helps VETS measure program effectiveness. 
Additionally, in December 2021, VETS launched its case management 
system, the TAP Employment Navigator System (TENS), which is used by 
Employment Navigators (who are contracted staff), ENPP partners, and 
TAP Team members to capture data, develop reports, and manage ENPP 
processes. TENS includes an integrated client request meeting 
scheduler, program reporting, policy/guidance storage, and client 
record management.
    In addition, VETS completed the required data-sharing agreements 
with the HHS needed to compare VDEI and ENPP data with wage and 
employment information from the National Directory of New Hires (NDNH) 
to understand employment-based outcomes for TAP and ENPP participants. 
Once the data comparison is completed, VETS can conduct analyses on: 
the correlation between employment status and timing and number of TAP 
courses taken; overall percentage of TAP participants becoming 
employed, and wages earned; the correlation between military occupation 
and employment status; and employment outcomes disaggregated by gender, 
age, race, ethnicity, and other demographic characteristics. NDNH data 
will provide VETS with new and powerful insights about TAP. DOL will 
leverage the information collected through VDEI, TENS and NDNH to 
improve program delivery and policies that can enhance employment 
outcomes for transitioning service members. These data are also being 
used for multiple research studies evaluating TAP and ENPP.

               Successful Interdepartmental Collaboration

    VETS believes that, at its core, TAP is a collaborative program 
that requires close coordination between our interagency partners and 
with our public-private partnerships to be successful in its mission. 
To accomplish this mission, VETS will continue to collaborate with 
Congress, its interagency partners, ENPP partners, DoD SkillBridge 
stakeholders, and employers to annually increase employment-related TAP 
outcomes.
    VETS works with its interagency partners to provide program 
oversight. In conjunction with DoD and VA, VETS co-chairs the TAP 
Interagency Executive Council, the TAP Senior Steering Group, and six 
functional working groups. Interagency members meet and coordinate on a 
regular basis to ensure the partners are supporting and advancing TAP, 
as well as to reduce redundancy, better serve unique populations, and 
improve coordination of services across program areas.
    VETS, along with all the TAP interagency partners, is participating 
in the President's Management Agenda Life Experience Human Centered 
Design (HCD) project named Navigating the Transition from Military to 
Civilian Life. The project lead is the VA's Veteran Experience Office. 
Beginning in September 2022, representatives from VETS and all the TAP 
interagency partners worked as a co-design team for the project. Guided 
by the HCD model, the first co-design sprint produced a concept for a 
digital solution, which will be used to deliver information and 
resources based on service members' own transition plans. The cross-
agency collaborative will continue work through the rest of this year 
in packaging recommendations for potential solutions that can be 
developed and implemented in the coming FY and beyond.
    Through the ENPP, VETS has served over 10,000 transitioning service 
members and their spouses. Originally launched at 13 locations, the 
pilot has since expanded to 26 locations at the request of the military 
services and has grown to over 44 partners. Employment Navigators and 
installation personnel meet regularly to assist with operational or 
policy related needs. Additionally, ENPP partners and VETS' staff meet 
monthly to share updates and to address best-practices and challenges. 
ENPP would not have succeeded without the great work that our partners 
are doing for our service members and their spouses, and for that we 
are grateful.
    Through OBTT, our full-time contracted Employment Resource 
Coordinators (ERCs) are actively engaging with local stakeholders, 
including veteran and military spouse organizations. Stakeholder 
engagement through OBTT is essential for reaching our target audience. 
Each of our sites meets regularly with representatives throughout their 
community to leverage information, resources, and to share best 
practices.
    Each of these emerging interagency employment programs provide 
positive employment outcomes that are rapidly transforming the 
employment TAP space. Over the next few years, VETS is excited to 
continue collaboration with Congress, stakeholders, the military 
services, and employers across the United States to annually increase 
employment related TAP outcomes created by these two emerging 
interagency TAP employment programs and initiatives.

         VETS' Federal Administration and USERRA Appropriation

    VETS appreciates the funding increases appropriated by Congress for 
the TAP program over the past several years. However, Congress did not 
proportionally increase funding for VETS' Federal Administration and 
Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA) 
appropriation, which funds our staff, enforcement activities, 
performance accountability systems, outreach, engagement, and research 
activities for all of VETS' programs, including the TAP program. In FY 
2022, the President's Budget request for the VETS Federal 
Administration and USERRA was $52.5 million, but Congress only 
appropriated $46 million. In FY 2023, the President's Budget request 
was just over $53.7 million, but Congress only appropriated $47 
million.
    The VETS Federal Administration and USERRA funds directly impact 
TAP activities because they pay for approximately 37 VETS employees at 
the national, regional, and State levels that support TAP activities. 
Accordingly, VETS requests that Congress appropriate the FY 2024 
President's Budget request\9\ of $347.6 million for VETS, which 
includes $34.379 million for TAP and $59.3 million for Federal 
Administration and USERRA.
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    \9\ https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/general/budget/2024/CBJ-
2024-V1-10.pdf
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                               Conclusion

    In conclusion, our long-term strategic goal for TAP is for the 
nation as a whole to recognize military service as a path to high 
quality civilian careers. The future of the country's All Volunteer 
Force across the armed services depends upon this recognition. As the 
lead Federal agency on veteran employment, VETS looks forward to 
working with this Committee and our many partners and stakeholders to 
create opportunities that ensure all veterans can have a good job and 
opportunity for advancement.
    Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, distinguished Members of the 
Subcommittee, this concludes my statement. Thank you for the 
opportunity to be a part of this hearing, and I welcome your questions.
                                 ______
                                 

                    Prepared Statement of Dawn Locke


[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                 Prepared Statement of Brittany Dymond

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and members of the 
subcommittee, on behalf of the men and women of the Veterans of Foreign 
Wars of the United States (VFW) and its Auxiliary, thank you for the 
opportunity to provide our remarks on this vital topic.
    The critical nature of military transition cannot be understated. 
For many transitioning service members (TSMs), the change from military 
to civilian life represents a complete personal and professional shift 
not previously experienced during adulthood. Additionally, leaving 
service often is complicated by injuries or illnesses incurred while 
serving, unique family needs, loss of identity and support networks, 
and the need for education or training to enter a new career field. 
Sadly, the initial year following transition also comes with heightened 
suicide risk among new veterans, bolstering the need to ensure all 
stakeholders focus appropriate attention to this time period. Access to 
well-rounded, quality, consistent, and timely transition support is 
vital for the post-service well-being and success of transitioning 
service members and often their families.
    The needs and circumstances of separating and retiring personnel 
vary greatly as well as the levels of preparation necessary to be 
successful after service. For instance, those being unexpectedly 
separated or retired for medical reasons experience added hurdles like 
compressed discharge timelines, little or no opportunities to plan, 
potential employment barriers, and even grief or anger. This is in deep 
contrast to the majority who separate after finishing their contract or 
retire after completing a full career. The latter groups have more 
predictability and expanded opportunities to plan, set, and complete 
goals before leaving the military, thereby easing some of the 
challenges inherent with returning to civilian life.
    Fortunately, personnel undergoing medical and physical evaluation 
are heavily supported throughout the process, known as the Integrated 
Disability Evaluation System (IDES). As warranted, service members in 
the IDES receive a preliminary disability rating from the Department of 
Veterans Affairs (VA) and often are directly connected to resources and 
programs like VA's Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E). This 
comprehensive program helps IDES personnel chart a post-military career 
path that accommodates service-connected injuries and illnesses. 
Importantly, these service members are entered into the VA system 
before discharge, enabling them to begin using the VA benefits and 
services for which they qualify once they are separated from the 
military.
    Being medically separated or retired from service is the closest 
one can get to receiving a personalized transition experience, and for 
good reasons. Individuals deemed medically unfit for continued military 
service have earned and often require that level of support. While IDES 
participants must complete the Transition Assistance Program (TAP) like 
anyone else, the tools and resources necessary for them to be 
successful are brought to them where they are versus having to seek 
them out on their own. Notably, IDES service members are removed from 
their operational units and are thus able to navigate transition 
activities without operational demands. This puts them in a noteworthy 
minority. No other service members are afforded the level of care and 
attention during transition as those receiving medical separations and 
retirements. Non-IDES service members are informed about post-service 
benefits and resources during TAP, but must proactively engage them on 
their own. Unfortunately, the onus put on regularly separating and 
retiring personnel is frequently at odds with operational requirements 
and other pressing transition needs like finding a new home and career.
    While the VFW knows it is not currently feasible to give every 
service member a customized transition experience like the one inherent 
with IDES, we know the Department of Defense (DOD) and VA can do better 
to ensure more service members receive the support they need and 
deserve within the current TAP framework. Providing comprehensive 
knowledge of programs and resources and subsequent connections to them 
is no less important for regularly separating and retiring personnel 
than it is for individuals separating or retiring via IDES.

Transition Assistance Program Background

    Attending TAP is mandatory for all personnel approaching separation 
or retirement, including those transitioning for medical reasons. Down 
from five mandatory days of instruction, the recently overhauled TAP is 
comprised of three mandatory days and two additional days, known as 
career tracks, that are optional for TSMs whose assigned tier allows 
them to forgo attending. The tier system is new, and came about as part 
of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year (FY) 2019 TAP 
law reforms. This structure is intended to align TAP more closely to 
TSMs' individual goals and needs by assigning them to one of three 
tiers. Tier assignment is based on assessed level of transition 
preparedness during service members' individualized initial counseling 
sessions, which occur before attending the TAP course itself. Service 
members assigned to Tier 1 are considered the most prepared to achieve 
their transition plan, exempting them from completing a track, while 
those assigned to Tier 3 are considered the least prepared, making 
track completion mandatory. Tracks are largely optional for Tier 2 
TSMs.
    Through continuous oversight and improvement, holistic transition 
support and services that meet TSMs where they are should be the goal 
of Congress, DOD, and VA. The VFW thanks each entity for taking this 
responsibility seriously through constant iteration and oversight such 
as this hearing. Under the new TAP curriculum, however, program 
managers have just three guaranteed days and at most 5 days with the 
estimated 200,000 service members who leave the military every year. 
This reduced window can by no means accommodate every service members' 
individual transition needs. Accordingly, less time with TSMs 
necessitates an approach that leverages external stakeholders who can 
provide the capacity and capabilities that the current curriculum 
cannot accommodate. Also vital, Congress must ensure DOD and each of 
the services abides by the TAP law and works to mitigate gaps and areas 
of ambiguity. Understanding that not all service members can receive 
robust transition support commensurate with what IDES TSMs receive, we 
have identified specific areas for Congress to focus its oversight and 
subsequent reforms. Such emphasis can bring the transition experiences 
of the majority of TSMs into closer alignment with those going through 
IDES, albeit via slightly different means.

VA Office of Outreach, Transition and Economic Development

    The VFW is very concerned about VA's Office of Outreach, Transition 
and Economic Development (OTED) and how it discharges its supposed 
mission. We know that OTED recently revised the TAP curriculum but has 
never sought input from organizations like the VFW, which is present in 
some capacity in TAP on nearly two dozen military installations.
    When we have offered support, OTED has ignored our input. This is a 
stark departure from how VA operated before OTED's creation. The VFW 
had a seat at the table during the VOW Act implementation and again 
consistently provided feedback on TAP curriculum up until OTED's 
creation. The VFW was eager to work with OTED when the Veterans 
Benefits Administration (VBA) decided to stand up the office, but we 
have been outright disappointed with how the business line has operated 
ever since. To be blunt, OTED has appeared before this subcommittee 
before and poorly represented VA's position on transition. At this 
point the VFW has to ask this subcommittee, what exactly does OTED do?
    A prime example of OTED's deficiency is its lackluster 
implementation of Congress's mandate under the COMPACT Act for VA to 
institute a pilot program through which veterans could elect to receive 
information from networks of support after transition. OTED took it 
upon itself to develop a mobile application called Getting Results in 
Transition (GRIT) to accomplish this objective. In the VFW's opinion, 
this resource was hastily developed without constructive feedback from 
community organizations like the VFW. Instead, OTED developed the 
product in a vacuum, presenting a product that is highly ineffective 
and underutilized.
    VBA has repeatedly asked our organization to promote GRIT, but we 
cannot in good conscience. After reviewing a demonstration of the 
product, it seems to be a mobile application nobody asked for to build 
a social network that nobody wants.

Benefits Delivery at Discharge Program Access

    One of the best resources at service members' disposal during 
transition is the VA Benefits Delivery at Discharge (BDD) program 
through which individuals can file expedited VA disability claims 
before leaving active duty. Using the BDD program (pre-discharge 
claims) service members can submit their compensation claims and 
complete associated medical evaluations before leaving service, thereby 
enabling VA to provide disability ratings upon or shortly after 
discharge. Individuals who participate in the BDD program are 
subsequently better positioned to engage VA benefits and services, like 
IDES personnel, after leaving the military. This means TSMs can 
minimize gaps in essential care like mental health counseling and 
medication management upon discharge.
    The VFW believes there is incalculable value in incorporating VA-
accredited representatives into the TAP curriculum. Specifically, we 
would like to see these representatives facilitate complementary course 
materials that cover VA benefits and services where practical, with a 
particular emphasis on those that can be applied for prior to 
separation or retirement. This approach would mitigate instances of 
service members missing critical benefits-related details while 
enabling more to act on information without needing to find a 
representative in their free time outside of TAP. For instance, 
military personnel have a very slim window (180-90 days before 
separation) in which they are eligible to use the BDD program. 
Accredited representatives would not only be able to highlight the 
program but also help TSMs file claims once eligible, which is a task 
that VA contract employees who largely teach this material are 
prohibited from doing. Additionally, the VFW believes the window for 
eligible claims should be expanded beyond the window of 180-90 days to 
ensure service members have adequate time to file prior to separation.
    Service members generally do not learn about the BDD program until 
they attend TAP. Yet, individuals across service branches and 
installations currently have unreliable access to accredited 
representatives during classes, creating barriers to filing pre-
discharge VA disability claims via the BDD program. Accredited 
representatives experience wide variability in how, if at all, they can 
engage TSMs during TAP. This is because no statute or policy exists 
that requires installation commanders and site managers to permit 
representatives' entry into and participation in any element of the 
curriculum. As a result, site managers vary in their willingness to 
allow representatives in TAP and, if entry is permitted, managers also 
differ in what capacities they will allow representatives to engage 
TSMs. Commonly, they do not see the value in having accredited 
representatives present or assert that there simply is not enough time 
to allow them to speak to service members. Also common is the belief 
that all veteran-and military-serving organizations are created equal, 
and if TAP managers allow in one organization, they have to let in all 
external organizations. This could not be further from the truth, as 
not all organizations are recognized by VA for the purposes of 
preparation, presentation, and prosecution of claims before the agency.
    Unequal access leads to less TSMs being connected to their benefits 
upon separation, thereby endangering connections to VA benefits and 
services like mental health care. The VFW asks Congress to either 
direct VA to develop a tailored pre-separation benefits course in which 
accredited representatives actively participate, or incorporate 
representatives into its current TAP presentation to explain benefits 
that can be applied for prior to separation. We believe that VA must 
utilize accredited representatives as tools in their TAP toolkit to the 
maximum practical extent. Details about accredited representatives as 
well as a list of groups and individuals who have received 
accreditation can be found by visiting benefits.va.gov/vso.
    Knowing that the initial twelve months after discharge present 
heightened vulnerability for veterans to die by suicide, filing a pre-
discharge claim can quite literally facilitate a lifeline for recently 
transitioned veterans. The VA's most recent suicide report suggested a 
decreased veteran suicide rate per day (1.0 vs. 6.7) for individuals 
having any contact with VBA as compared to those having no interaction 
with VBA or the Veterans Health Administration (VHA). This is the first 
time VA has provided benefits-related suicide data in its reporting 
and, while high level, this suicide rate difference illustrates a vital 
link. For example, the Veterans Experience Office recently briefed the 
VFW on its customer experience work on TAP, validating that veterans 
who connect with VA benefit programs either before or within one year 
after separation are more likely to successfully reintegrate into 
civilian life. Accordingly, increasing BDD program participation may 
potentially reduce suicide deaths among new veterans.
    The VFW knows VA health care and benefits improve veterans' lives, 
but we need more information regarding the relationship between these 
VA services and suicide prevention. We urge this subcommittee to 
introduce and pass a House companion to S. 928, Not Just a Number Act, 
which would evaluate the role benefits related to economic opportunity 
have on suicide prevention.

Connections to Community Resources

    The VFW also believes it is essential that Congress clarifies how 
it defines resources located in communities as outlined in 10 U.S.C. 
Sec. 1142 (2021). As part of the FY 2019 TAP law reforms, Congress 
mandated that all TSMs be connected to resources in the communities in 
which they plan to live after service. These connections are supposed 
to be warm handoffs that are reflective of TSMs' individual needs and 
enable smooth transitions to new communities, including to resources 
that would provide the social support and camaraderie that is often 
lost when exiting the military. However, DOD is not doing this 
consistently or effectively. As written, the requirement is too 
ambiguous since the statute does not articulate how resources should be 
identified or what it means to connect service members. As part of the 
VFW's Pre-Discharge Claims program survey, respondents are asked 
whether they received community connections. Between September 2022 and 
May 2023, one third of more than one thousand respondents indicated 
they either were not or did not know if they received connections 
during their individualized initial counseling. This is problematic. 
The transition program's generalist nature is not a flaw of the system 
but rather a feature of the system. TAP is neither designed for nor 
able to address everyone's unique needs, so community resources fill 
the void that its curriculum cannot. In other words, community 
organizations are the transition program's force multiplier.
    We question if DOD believes it is currently, at least in part, 
satisfying this TAP law requirement via box 10b of the DD Form 2648, 
which provides TSMs the ability to opt in to having their information 
sent to State agencies. While this would perhaps be a fair start, the 
opt-in nature of this approach means less service members will 
participate. Also, due to self-selection bias at the outset, requiring 
individuals to opt in potentially skews future efforts to evaluate the 
effect that facilitating connections has on TAP outcomes. For those who 
opt in, simply sending TSM discharge details to state agencies is not 
only passive and impersonal, but also not what Congress intended as 
being connected to community resources.
    One example scenario where DOD's method is wholly inadequate is for 
service members with dependents enrolled in the Exceptional Family 
Member Program (EFMP). The EFMP provides myriad support services to 
military families with special needs, but that support ceases once they 
leave the military. In this example, not only would the service members 
and their families have to navigate common transition challenges, but 
they also would have to identify and arrange equivalent supports in 
their new communities without the assistance they had via EFMP. Relying 
solely on box 10b would be a complete disservice to these TSMs and 
their families, especially since the state agencies on the receiving 
end are currently not allowed to engage service members until after 
they have been discharged. Regardless of circumstances, service members 
and families deserve, and the VFW demands, better.
    As the law requires, we would like Congress to ensure connections 
are being consistently made between TSMs and resources in the 
communities to which they are transitioning, with an emphasis on 
specialized transition service organizations that receive federal grant 
funding. One existing tool Congress can designate for connections is 
the National Resource Directory (NRD), which is housed within the 
Defense Health Agency (DHA). A partnership between DOD, VA, and the 
Department of Labor, NRD contains a large repository of strictly vetted 
organizations that span the transition spectrum from career assistance 
to caregiver support.
    The VFW insists connections to community resources be specifically 
defined and we recommend that the definition include NRD. While it is 
not the role of this subcommittee to authorize and appropriate funding 
for a DHA program, we believe Congress should evaluate and make sure 
the NRD team and website is properly funded and staffed to accommodate 
any increased workloads, capabilities, or necessary upgrades.
    There are no national transition services in every city and state 
that support TSMs who are seeking services across all industries. 
However, there are a multitude of organizations that specialize in 
certain fields in certain areas of the country. If TSMs are seeking 
education opportunities, they should be connected to local Student 
Veterans of America chapters. If they are seeking employment in the 
technology industry in Texas, they should be connected to organizations 
like VetsinTech. If they are seeking to enter the finance world in New 
York City, they should be connected to FourBlock. And if they are 
service members separating from the Special Operations Forces, they 
should be connected to organizations like The Honor Foundation. 
Organizations with tailored transition plans for service members and 
veterans will not be able to offer the most value if they are 
underutilized and TSMs do not know they exist. TAP cannot be everything 
for everybody, but there are countless organizations that could offer 
specialized services as long as DOD makes the connections to community 
resources as required by law.

DOD Adherence to the Law

    While our concerns about connections to community resources are 
largely grounded in VFW survey responses and anecdotal feedback, 
additional VFW survey data are consistent with recent U.S. Government 
Accountability Office (GAO) findings. A December 2022 GAO report 
confirmed a suspicion we already had that TSMs have overwhelmingly--at 
seventy percent--not been attending TAP at least twelve months prior to 
separation or discharge as required by law. Our survey data closely 
aligns. Between September 2022 and May 2023, the VFW's survey of TSMs 
indicated that sixty-two percent began TAP less than one year prior to 
separation or retirement. Of that respondent subgroup, forty-five 
percent reported beginning six months or less prior to discharge. These 
figures are highly concerning. The intent of the FY 2019 change to the 
TAP attendance deadline was to ensure that service members could attend 
TAP early and often. This is largely not being done.
    Poor course attendance timeliness hinders members' ability to learn 
about, use, and/or apply for post-service benefits and programs with 
set deadlines, like the BDD program. Not participating in TAP on time 
also robs some service members of the ability to make course 
corrections to their transition plans as they hone goals and learn more 
about their post-service needs. As such, lack of timeliness in 
attending TAP negatively impacts service members' ability to access 
needed benefits after service such as VA health care, while delaying 
elements of the members' transition plans such as career training via 
the Post-9/11 GI Bill or the VR&E program. We urge Congress to hold DOD 
accountable to ensure TSMs complete TAP on time, while making sure each 
service department expeditiously implements GAO's December 2022 
timeliness recommendations.
    The same GAO report also bolstered our concerns regarding the tier 
system. Almost twenty-five percent of TSMs assigned to Tier 3 did not 
complete a mandatory two-day track. Meanwhile, nearly thirty-three 
percent of VFW survey participants did not even know to which tier they 
had been assigned. Under the new system, understanding one's tier is 
central to determining transition readiness and related goal setting. 
These findings suggest the tier system may not be meeting the intent of 
Congress. The VFW recommends evaluating the execution and effectiveness 
of the tier system or eliminating it entirely. In the interim, we urge 
Congress to make sure DOD urgently complies with GAO's recommendations 
regarding track attendance.

Spouse Inclusion in TAP

    Our survey data also reveal that of those TSMs with spouses, more 
than fifteen percent of respondents either did not know their spouse 
could attend TAP or their spouse wanted to attend but could not. Of 
those who provided clarifying remarks, the spouse's job, child care 
challenges, being geographically separated, and being a dual-military 
couple (i.e., spouse has already taken or will take) were cited as 
reasons for spouses not attending. Military transition is an endeavor 
for families as much as it is for individual service members. 
Transition planning as a family is imperative to understand post-
separation benefits, services, and needs like disability compensation, 
education and survivor benefits, health care, financial planning, and 
even career changes.
    While online TAP coursework is now available to spouses and 
caregivers, the value of attending the course in person cannot be 
understated. Some ways to increase attendance include offering TAP in 
the evenings or over weekends when spouses are not working and more 
child care options are available. Additionally, TAP stakeholders can 
work to accommodate child care needs during regularly scheduled 
sessions. We call on Congress to study the factors contributing to 
spouses not attending TAP in person and enact legislation that 
mitigates or removes the identified barriers. Moreover, we would like 
to see Congress create a spouse TAP pilot program that not only 
incorporates the findings of the study but also aligns with the unique 
needs and challenges experienced during transition.

Incongruent Incentives and Outcomes

    Within DOD, military commanders' focus understandably centers 
around mission readiness priorities like training, staffing, and 
equipment upkeep. Operational requirements generally take precedence 
over peripheral efforts that are not considered mission essential. This 
all makes sense, of course, as DOD is charged with deterring war and 
ensuring our Nation's security. Friction arises, however, when DOD 
policies and practices that prioritize and incentivize operational 
readiness and effectiveness are incongruent with service members who 
are leaving the military. Transition policies and programs are 
inherently incompatible with operations. Unit leaders are tasked with 
ensuring the mission is accomplished with the people they have, 
including TSMs, as service members are expected to simultaneously 
fulfill their regular duties and transition requirements. However, this 
conflict generally does not exist for personnel being medically 
separated or retired via IDES because they are removed from their units 
which allows commanders to backfill their positions.
    Moreover, the prevailing military culture is not necessarily 
accommodating of or sympathetic to separating personnel and related 
policies. Evidence can be seen in the Navy's management of the DOD 
SkillBridge program. Although it is a lauded transition resource, the 
Navy recently restricted SkillBridge access by rank and time until 
discharge because service members' participation in the program impacts 
unit operations. Not only are commanders authorized full latitude to 
approve or deny SkillBridge use, but the tone of this Navy-specific 
administrative message, or NAVADMIN, is seemingly adversarial in 
nature. The Navy's policy on TSM participation in SkillBridge results 
in disparate outcomes among naval service men and women. The value of 
programs meant to facilitate smooth transitions cannot be fully 
realized if DOD is permitted to restrict them.
    The VFW is concerned that disparate experiences are also occurring 
within TAP itself. For example, during the September 2022 Military-
Civilian Transition Summit, the Army's TAP manager started his 
presentation by noting that each of the services administers TAP ``a 
little bit'' differently. Any differences in TAP implementation should 
be only in the margins and never interfere with the timely and 
equitable access to information, programs, and services. DOD must 
ensure any latitude the services have in implementation does not 
interfere with the mandates and intentions of Congress.

Transition within the Coast Guard and Reserve Components

    Historically, the Coast Guard has been overlooked in discussions 
about TAP oversight. It does not always fall under the jurisdiction of 
the Armed Services Committees, and it also does not receive the same 
level of recognition regarding VA issues. The men and women of the 
Coast Guard are often overlooked, but they also serve our Nation and 
have needs similar to other members of the armed forces. However, the 
VFW has learned the Coast Guard is lacking the proper resources to 
administer TAP as effectively as other services. For example, the 
website that hosts the Coast Guard transition information has not been 
updated since before the FY 2019 TAP changes. We understand it is not 
the jurisdiction of this subcommittee to authorize or appropriate funds 
for the administration of Coast Guard programs, but we urge Congress to 
make sure this service is resourced properly so Coast Guard members are 
afforded equitable opportunities.
    A large cohort of the armed services that is also often overlooked 
in the transition discussion is the reserve component. Members of the 
National Guard and Reserve forces do not receive the same out-
processing and instruction as active duty members. Units completing 
major deployments are given truncated TAP-style briefings, but standard 
personnel who are out--processing in the rest of the reserve component 
do not typically receive this instruction. The VFW recommends members 
of the National Guard and Reserves be assigned the online version of 
TAP to complete before final separation, and annual VA benefits 
briefings be administered to units throughout the year during 
administrative drill days.
    Chairman Van Orden and Ranking Member Levin, this concludes my 
testimony. Again, the VFW thanks you for the opportunity to testify on 
this important issue. I am prepared to take any questions you or the 
subcommittee members may have.

Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives

    Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, the VFW 
has not received any federal grants in Fiscal Year 2023, nor has it 
received any federal grants in the two previous Fiscal Years.

    The VFW has not received payments or contracts from any foreign 
governments in the current year or preceding two calendar years.
                                 ______
                                 

                  Prepared Statement of Michael Quinn

    Before I talk about the Transition Assistance Program (TAP), you 
should understand my story.
    I retired from the Army on November 1st, 2017 after a 24 year 
active-duty career in Military Intelligence. I was always the top-
performer in my units, first-promoted almost the entire way through 
Sergeant Major with some unique assignments in a Special Mission Unit 
and as the J2 (leading all physical and personnel security) of the 
White House Communications Agency. I fully planned on serving for 30 
years, but when my former spouse said ``I'm not moving'' to a list of 
assignments we received, I thought the transition was going to be a 
breeze for a top-performing intelligence professional like me in the DC 
area with a Top Secret clearance.

    I couldn't have been more wrong as it ended up being the hardest 
year of my life.

    I vividly remember my first job fair, walking in prepared with 
everything they taught at TAP. I was dressed in my best suit, had 
business cards, copies of my resumes, research on every employer and a 
well-practiced elevator pitch ready to show every one of the 41 
employers that I would be a huge value-add to their company if they 
would only give me a chance.
    6 hours and 41 rejections later, I walked out dejected, demoralized 
and wondering how I was going to find a job and take care of my family 
(because SGM retirement doesn't go far in the DC area). Thankfully I 
took notes from every rejection and one employer, when I nagged them 
for follow-up information, told me to ``connect with them on 
LinkedIn.'' So I did, and it opened the world to me.
    To me, LinkedIn wasn't ``social media.'' It was a networking tool 
that gave me access to professionals with whom I had something in 
common all over the country and in every job/industry. Since TAP 
couldn't teach me what I needed to know, I resolved to reach out to 
thousands of people in industry to learn the ``real truth'' of finding 
meaningful employment. After 6+ months of hard work and over 200 
informational interviews with people in industry, I finally had the 
knowledge, relationships, and insight to frame myself as a ``best 
candidate'' and find meaningful employment at the right level for me. 
(Note: I'm not paid by LinkedIn, nor do I have any financial interest 
in the company)
    Once I figured it out, I began to see the struggle of others in the 
transition and realized that it was my passion and calling to give 
back. Since my retirement from the Army, I have done so by posting tips 
and advice on LinkedIn almost every day, now reaching over 1.2M people 
(primarily in military & veteran community) a month through LinkedIn. I 
also hold 50+ webinars, live sessions, and in-person workshops a year 
to stay engaged with our community. I teach LinkedIn & Digital 
Networking at the official transition courses for the General Officers 
and Admirals of every branch of service, but also speak with the 
enlisted communities of every branch - giving me a fairly unique 
perspective as my company (HireMilitary) is a veteran and military 
spouse staffing company (never any cost to the service member, veteran 
or military spouse).
    Everything I have done since early 2017 has been to fill the gaps 
left from the TAP, so here are my four recommendations to fix the 
program:

    1. Put someone in charge of TAP

        Botom Line: A single Agency needs to be in charge to drive 
        change.

    TAP, as a program, is led by an Interagency Council with the 
Department of Veteran Affairs (VA), Department of Labor (DoL), and 
Department of Defense (DoD) leading individual sections of the program. 
While there are wonderful, hard-working, and caring people at all 
locations, nobody is actually in charge of or held accountable for the 
performance of the entire program. Each agency handles their own piece, 
does their best, but it is hard to tie a failure to one individual 
component of the program. It is also nearly impossible to drive change 
without someone (person or organization) providing vision and 
leadership.
    So if you want to improve TAP, the first thing you need to do is 
put someone in charge of the program that is going to drive change, 
implement your vision, track results, and accept accountability/
responsibility for a program that impacts the lives of over 220,000 
transitioning service members every year.
    For example, on May 3rd, 2023 I received a briefing from a VA 
representative that included rather large percentages of service 
members not meeting the Congressionally mandated requirement to start 
TAP no later than 365 days prior to their separation from service. The 
VA has this information, but what can they do to ensure that the 
situation gets fixed?
    With each Agency having their own leadership, vision, funding and 
contracting vehicles, how can you really develop and integrated 
transition assistance program? Even the individual services do it 
differently.

    2. Ensure the Military Life Cycle Transition Process is Implemented

        Botom Line: Congress mandated the program, but it has never 
        been implemented.

    There is too much information associated with a successful 
transition from the military into civilian employment for it to be 
absorbed and implemented in a multi-day program that pushes everything 
through a proverbial PowerPoint firehose. Regardless of the curriculum 
or instructor quality, there is just too much information when coupled 
with other transition and life stressors. How do we fix this? It is 
simple: you provide transition-related training at key touchpoints 
throughout an entire career, building knowledge and sharing resources 
so that it is not the first time the service member sees it when they 
attend TAP.
    This is not my idea.
    Congress has mandated the Military Life Cycle Transition on several 
occasions, I believe starting with the original VOW Act. The DoD TAP 
office has the below website covering the Military Life Cycle 
Transition:

    (from DoD TAP Website: https://www.dodtap.mil/dodtap/app/about/mlc 
)

    The Military Life Cycle (MLC) is a transition model that begins a 
Service member's transition preparation early in their military career. 
Service members have various key touch points throughout their MLC that 
provide them opportunities to align their military career with their 
civilian goals. Service members are made aware of the Career Readiness 
Standards (CRS) they must meet before their intended separation and 
remain engaged throughout their military careers in mapping and 
refining their individual development to achieve their goals. This 
enables transition to become a well-planned, organized progression that 
empowers Service members to make informed career decisions and take 
responsibility for advancing their personal goals.

    But regardless of congressional mandates and DoD policies, the 
Military Life Cycle Transition is not being implemented. DoD put out a 
policy and created a website, but there was no specific requirements 
for reporting, dates of implementation, or other requirements to make 
sure it happened. And since nobody actually checked, the Military Life 
Cycle Transition program does not exist in the services and the first 
time we see anything transition-related is when attending TAP.
    My recommendation? Give clear guidance to the DoD on expected 
implementation of the Military Life Cycle Transition with specific 
tasks, dates, and reporting requirements back to Congress. This should 
also give the services the opportunity to highlight if they need 
additional funding or resources to do so, but at the end of the day 
there needs to be confirmation that the program was implemented and is 
being delivered to all service members throughout their career.

    3. Modernize TAP delivery

        Botom Line: We need on-demand training accessible whenever, 
        wherever by service members on their devices, coupled with 
        distributed, on-demand live training and support.

    While the past few years have been extremely difficult, one thing 
that took a giant leap forward was the technology enabling us to work, 
meet, and deliver training remotely. This technology, coupled with a 
younger generation of digital natives, makes the fact that most 
training is delivered in ``brick and mortar'' schools around the world 
an incredible waste of resources. The DoL portion of TAP alone has 
close to 700 facilitators around the world, the majority of which are 
1099 or part-time employees not being paid very much. I've seen many 
that just got out of active service and went right into teaching TAP, 
which can be unfortunate for those in their class as they have no 
relevant experience.
    To resolve this, service members deserve access to a vast library 
of on-demand, transition-related content that they can watch from their 
devices. But since not everyone learns well from online classes, there 
should also be a schedule of live webinars they can register to attend 
and a remote center of counselors available to guide them through the 
process, review documents, provide feedback, and recommend additional 
resources.
    Doing it remotely enables significant economy of scale, improving 
quality because it gives you the ability to hire more experienced 
instructors, facilitators, and counselors - while at the same time 
letting service members review the courses they want as often as they 
want.
    (Note: I recommend hiring a company to advise TAP agencies on how 
to effectively implement the contracting process for this (it would be 
easier if one agency was in charge). This can't be a lowest price 
technically acceptable contract, but the money already being invested 
in this program, in total, is certainly enough to do this.)

    4. Hold DoD Accountable

        Botom Line: Take a baseline of annual Unemployment Compensation 
        for Ex-servicemembers (UCX) expenses for each military service, 
        then set goals for improvement with fiscal repercussions (same 
        year budget) if they fail to do so.

    Mission first is the priority for the military, and rightfully so. 
The problem is that nobody has truly made TAP part of the mission, 
explained how every poorly transitioned service member negatively 
impacts future military recruiting, or required the services to care 
about TAP.
    It's somewhat comical to see how Dental Readiness (annual dental 
check-up) is prioritized at all levels of Commands. It is tracked by 
units, driven by installations, and Command teams get absolutely 
hammered if their service members go longer than a year without getting 
their annual checkup. Why do they do this? It is because dental issues 
can keep service members from deploying and Commanders prioritize it.
    But you have a congressionally mandated requirement to ensure all 
service members start TAP no later than 365 days before separation 
without any of the follow-up or Command engagement that happens with 
Dental Readiness. And while there truly are Leaders across the force 
that care about TAP, it is not seen as part of the service's mission.
    How do we get the Military Services engaged and driving TAP?
    There needs to be clear guidance, metrics to track, and 
repercussions if they fail to do so.
    I recommend analyzing Unemployment Compensation for Ex-
servicemembers (UCX) data, by service, for the past several years and 
then developing a glidepath to improvement by setting goals against UCX 
expenses. If the services fail to meet their specific UCX goals, 
Congress takes back money from their same year budget authorization. 
(Something similar occurs in Major League Baseball with the salary cap. 
If any team goes over the salary cap, they are penalized (fined) 
millions of dollars.)
    If the clear guidance, metrics and fiscal penalties are made clear, 
the services will implement the programs from the top down, track 
attendance and Commanders will become innovative in how they support 
the program - as it will become part of the mission.
                                 ______
                                 

                    Prepared Statement of Abby Kinch

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and Members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for inviting Student Veterans of America (SVA) 
to submit testimony on the topic of the Transition Assistance Program 
(TAP).
    With a mission focused on empowering student veterans, SVA is 
committed to providing an educational experience that goes beyond the 
classroom. Through a dedicated and expansive network of on-campus 
chapters across the country, SVA aims to inspire yesterday's warriors 
by connecting student veterans with a community of dedicated chapter 
leaders. Every day, these passionate leaders work to provide the 
necessary resources, network support, and advocacy to ensure student 
veterans can effectively connect, expand their skills, and ultimately 
achieve their greatest potential.
    SVA greatly appreciates the opportunity to speak to our research 
and the experiences of student veterans regarding TAP. We know that a 
positive transition experience, beginning with the decision to separate 
from military service and continuing through the rest of a veteran's 
life, is essential for a successful and meaningful return to a civilian 
society.

Transition Assistance Program

    An effective transition program is invaluable for those separating 
from service at any stage - an E-4 completing a single enlistment to 
someone retiring after 20 years of service. However, from our research 
both before and after the 2019 reforms TAP has been utilized more as a 
bridge from the moment of separation to the moment of employment or 
enrollment. Across all transition research, however, the recommendation 
is that transition programs be designed beyond that 
bridge.\1\, \2\, \3\, \4\, 
\5\ SVA recommends a ``highway'' approach when thinking about 
enhancements to TAP. It should carry transitioning servicemembers from 
a point well before their date of separation to well beyond their point 
of entry into their civilian lives.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Blackburn, D. (2016). Transitioning from military to civilian 
life: Examining the final step in a military career. Canadian Military 
Journal, 16(4), 53-61.
    \2\ Hallett, R. E., Kezar, A., Perez, R. J., & Kitchen, J. A. 
(2020). A typology of college transition and support programs: 
Situating a 2-year comprehensive college transition program within 
college access. American Behavioral Scientist, 64(3), 230-252.
    \3\ Kintzle, S., & Castro, C. A. (2018). Examining veteran 
transition to the workplace through military transition theory. In 
Occupational stress and well-being in military contexts (pp. 117-127). 
Emerald Publishing Limited.
    \4\ Pedlar, D., Thompson, J. M., & Castro, C. A. (2019). Military-
to-civilian transition theories and frameworks. In Military veteran 
reintegration (pp. 21-50). Academic Press.
    \5\ Zaidi, B., & Morgan, S. P. (2017). The second demographic 
transition theory: A review and appraisal. Annual review of sociology, 
43, 473-492.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2019 (FY 
2019 NDAA) already stipulates that transition services should start no 
later than one year from the servicemember's separation date, but SVA 
research has found that this is not always the case. After separation, 
our research indicates support services do not follow the then veteran 
through the continuation of transition. These primary issues, as well 
as others, are discussed below.
    TAP is intended to be a robust program aiming to provide a 
successful holistic transition of military personnel and their spouses 
from military to civilian life. As subject matter experts in the 
intersection of issues facing veterans and higher education, SVA will 
focus on the higher education transition portion of the program. Our 
testimony discusses opportunities for earlier intervention, points of 
interest in delivery, and the insufficient emphasis placed on 
transition into higher education.
    Statute lists those responsible for the employment assistance, job 
training assistance, and other transitional services that constitute 
TAP. Specifically, it requires the Secretary of Labor, along with the 
Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and the 
Secretary of Veterans Affairs to ``establish and maintain a program to 
furnish counseling, assistance in identifying employment and training 
opportunities, help in obtaining such employment and training, and 
other related information and services to members of the armed 
forces...'' \6\ Education is an essential component to finding a career 
for most transitioning servicemembers, as we will demonstrate below.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ 10 U.S.C. Sec.  1144(a).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The improvements made to TAP with the FY 2019 NDAA resulted in 
improved sentiment amongst transitioning servicemembers into higher 
education. SVA research prior to 2020 showed most student veterans had 
a negative or very negative experience with their transition programs, 
and a small portion had no experience with a transition program. Since 
the improvements were made, those sentiments have improved. In 2022, 
respondents indicated an increase in positive experience with TAP.\7\ 
The comments aligned with positive feedback were primarily focused on 
the increased information available in the education track.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ 2022 SVA Census (in process). On file with authors; 2022 SVA 
Basic Needs and Wellness Report (in process). On file with authors.
    \8\ See id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    About 50 percent of enlistees at the time of enlistment indicate 
that they intend to use their G.I. Bill benefits after separation,\9\ 
but SVA estimates show that number may be closer to two-thirds, though 
sparse data on veterans in higher education makes that determination 
foggy. Nevertheless, appropriate transition support into higher 
education is essential for a large portion of the transitioning 
population, stressing the importance of the education portion of TAP.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ From the House Hearing before the Subcommittee on Economic 
Opportunity of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs, U.S. House of 
Representatives, 112 Congress, ``Examining the Re-design of the 
Transition Assistance Program (TAP)'' provided September 20, 2012
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The ``Education Track'' is a ``two-day workshop designed to assist 
servicemembers in identifying the higher education requirements that 
support their personal career goals.'' \10\ It ``provides guidance on 
choosing an educational institution, preparing for the application 
process, and expectations upon attendance...'' \11\ SVA's research 
supports this component's mission, in that almost 60 percent of 
veterans seeking a higher education degree are motivated by career 
goals and aspirations.\12\ Of those, almost 70 percent chose higher 
education in lieu of an immediate career because they felt that they 
were ill-or under-prepared for employment following military 
service.\13\ Less than half of student veterans' future goals align 
with their military occupation,\14\ which may contribute to this 
feeling of unpreparedness. This further supports the need for a 
transition program designed with the lifespan of the veteran in mind.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ DoDTAP. Transition Components. DoD Education Track. https://
www.dodtap.mil/dodtap/app/transition/tracks.
    \11\ DoD Instruction 1332.35, 5.1a(4), (6)(b).
    \12\ 2022 SVA Census (in process). On file with authors.
    \13\ 2022 SVA Census (in process). Question asking respondents why 
they chose higher education as a transition medium. On file with 
authors.
    \14\ 2022 SVA Census (in process). On file with authors.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    According to the program itself, ``this two-day workshop is divided 
into the following topic areas: learning the basics, choosing a field 
of study, selecting an institution, gaining admission, and funding 
higher education.'' \15\ In our longitudinal study on the decision-
making patterns of servicemembers from pre-to post-enlistment, one of 
the most striking findings is what we refer to as the ``lost guidance 
counselor.'' \16\ As those about to graduate high school and make their 
way to college, 18-year-olds around the country may spend upwards of 
four years with a guidance counselor discussing career options and 
college planning. They choose programs of study, select institutions of 
higher learning, explore funding sources, and navigate the admissions 
process. Even conservatively, the better part of a college bound 
student's junior and senior years are dedicated to regularly scheduled 
meetings with a guidance counselor on this impactful life transition.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \15\ DoDTAP. Transition Components. DoD Education Track. https://
www.dodtap.mil/dodtap/app/transition/tracks.
    \16\ This comes from qualitative findings in response to issues in 
the decision-making process from the SVA Lifecycle Atlas project. These 
portions of the study have not been published. On file with author.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A two-day workshop cannot replace the support experienced by 
traditional students with guidance counselors transitioning into higher 
education. Over half of our respondents rated both the on-base 
education offices and TAP ``below average'' in providing advising 
services.\17\ While on active duty, servicemembers are often not 
provided adequate guidance on utilizing Tuition Assistance (TA) with 
transfer in mind, but with the idea that they will earn a degree while 
serving.\18\ A large portion of the spending on TA goes to three 
universities (one non-profit and two for-profit).\19\ Transferability 
of courses from these institutions to the schools that veterans most 
often select after separation is very low, meaning much of the TA 
budget is going to credits that cannot be used to earn degrees that are 
not completed while serving.\20\, \21\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \17\ 2022 SVA Basic Needs and Wellness Report (in process). On file 
with authors.
    \18\ 2022 SVA Basic Needs and Wellness Report (in process). On file 
with authors.
    \19\ Pulkkinen, L. (September 2021). Getting educated while on 
active duty is getting harder as military rolls back benefits. The 
Hechinger Report.
    \20\ This statement is only applicable to those who start 
coursework on TA, do not finish a degree, and then complete a degree at 
a different university after separation. However, because a vast 
majority of student veterans attend public, nonprofit universities, the 
assumption is that this is a common case.
    \21\ This is not to say that TA is a wasted benefit; only ill-
advised. TA is a powerful benefit that entices many servicemembers into 
service and can be leveraged to continue to draw Americans into 
military service.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    With this gap in service, student veterans arrive on college 
campuses with a deficit in planning that leads to a higher likelihood 
of program change. Student veterans are almost twice as likely as 
traditional students to change their major or program of study multiple 
times.\22\ Even with the generous funding from the G.I. Bill, student 
veterans find themselves graduating with student loan 
debt,\23\, \24\ partially due to the lack of proper 
preparation and advising. Were proper interventions started sooner and 
with more emphasis on education, TA dollars could be more appropriately 
used to take courses that transfer or that are housed within the 
destination school. This would reduce the number of program changes 
made by beneficiaries and allow G.I. Bill funding to be maximized for 
use with longer STEM degrees, ensure degree completion, or even support 
graduate school.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \22\ Unpublished findings from the SVA Lifecycle Atlas project. On 
file with author.
    \23\ Bhattarai, R., Brees, S., & Oliff, P. (2023). Veterans Borrow 
for Private and Public Higher Education Despite GI Bill Benefits. Pew 
Charitable Trusts.
    \24\ According to the Pew study, this debt is largely to cover 
costs associated with living expenses. Over half of student veterans 
are married and over half have children. Almost 20 percent are single 
parents, according to our research.
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    Finally, what compounds this ``lost guidance counselor'' phenomenon 
more is the fact that almost two-thirds of student veterans are first-
generation college students.\25\, \26\ Not only do these 
students not have the professional college counseling afforded to high 
school students, but they also lack familial guidance, which has been 
proven to support student transition, retention, and 
success.\27\, \28\, \29\ TAP has the opportunity, 
and in our opinion obligation, to fill this gap by working with 
college-bound servicemembers in an expanded capacity, replacing the 
lost guidance counselor with professional transition services into and 
through higher education. The U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) should 
further leverage the U.S. Department of Education, as part of the TAP 
interagency partnership, in providing this guidance, along with the 
nuanced approach not afforded currently.
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    \25\ Student Veterans of America uses the U.S. Department of 
Education definition of ``first-generation college students,'' or a 
student who had parents with no postsecondary education experience.
    \26\ This number has been consistent since the implementation of 
the SVA Census in 2016. See 2016-2020 SVA Census Reports, 2022 Census 
Report (in progress), held with authors. https://studentveterans.org/
research/sva-census/.
    \27\ Aruguete, M. S. (2017). Recognizing challenges and predicting 
success in first-generation university students. Journal of STEM 
Education: Innovations and Research, 18(2).
    \28\ Ives, J., & Castillo-Montoya, M. (2020). First-generation 
college students as academic learners: A systematic review. Review of 
Educational Research, 90(2), 139-178.
    \29\ Mehta, S. S., Newbold, J. J., & O'Rourke, M. A. (2011). Why do 
first-generation students fail?. College Student Journal, 45(1), 20-36.
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    More holistically, student veterans find that isolation was a large 
contributor to their transition stress. Much research has been 
conducted in examining the loss of camaraderie following separation 
from the military. The shared-experience, peer-support structure of our 
chapters is what makes them so enticing to student veterans on college 
campuses. Despite this, our survey feedback on transition to higher 
education shows that a vast majority of student veterans felt TAP did 
not prepare them for these types of social and psychological struggles 
associated with their separation from the military.

        ``TAP was for getting a job. That's it. I felt like I was 
        leaving home and heading somewhere where I didn't know anyone. 
        The SVA chapter...gave me the opportunity to meet people and 
        make connections. Without it, I would be alone.'' \30\
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    \30\ Response to the 2022 SVA Census survey asking respondents to 
``please use the space below to tell us any experiences as a student 
veteran, military or veteran dependent, or alumni that you wish to 
share.'' Report in progress, held with authors.

        ``Transition assistance program (TAP) was not comprehensive in 
        addressing the actual struggles of transition out of the 
        military (primarily psychological, financial, and medical/
        disability related ... [sic] did not need help writing a resume 
        for 3 days).'' \31\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \31\ Response to the 2022 SVA Census survey asking respondents to 
``please use the space below to tell us any experiences as a student 
veteran, military or veteran dependent, or alumni that you wish to 
share.'' Report in progress, held with authors.

    Combatting common feelings of isolation for student veterans with 
the camaraderie provided by an SVA chapter on college campuses also 
exposes these students to the larger campus community. We've noted 
through chapter conversations that student veterans who engage with 
their SVA chapter are more likely to engage with other areas of campus: 
student government; Greek life; industry organizations such as a 
business, law, or music student group; and identity organizations such 
as the women's student union or PRIDE student union. Higher education 
research has shown that participation in campus organizations increases 
student success on all measures, and we have found the same for student 
veterans.\32\, \33\ Additionally, a survey conducted in 2016 
showed that most student veterans have some level of service-connected 
disability,\34\ though virtually none utilized disability offices or 
accommodations to support their academic experience. In a 2022 survey, 
the number of student veterans utilizing these services had increased 
to 26 percent.\35\ Not only are SVA chapters a front door to other 
campus organizations, but they serve as a gateway to needed campus 
services.
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    \32\ Foley, C., Darcy, S., Hergesell, A., Almond, B., McDonald, M., 
Nguyen, L. T., & Morgan-Brett, E. (2023). Extracurricular activities, 
graduate attributes and serious leisure: competitive sport versus 
social-cultural clubs in campus life. Leisure Studies, 1-18.
    \33\ Morgan, N. R., Aronson, K. R., McCarthy, K. J., Balotti, B. 
A., & Perkins, D. F. (2023). Post-9/11 Veterans' Pursuit and Completion 
of Post-secondary Education: Social Connection, Mental Health, and 
Finances. Journal of Education, 00220574231168638.
    \34\ 2016 SVA Census. https://studentveterans.org/research/sva-
census/.
    \35\ 2022 SVA Basic Needs and Wellness Report (in process), held 
with authors.
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    Most student veterans, unfortunately, do not discover their SVA 
chapter until late in their college career.\36\ As trained, student 
veterans are focused on the mission - here, graduation is the only goal 
- and thus, these students miss out on many opportunities found on 
college campuses outside of the classroom. Were SVA and other Veteran 
Service Organizations connected with transitioning servicemembers 
during TAP, or earlier, this timeline to discovering support from their 
SVA chapter may be shortened, and we may see real impact that continues 
beyond immediate transition and beyond education. SVA chapters are 
often the first social contact on campuses for student veterans. 
Chapter members provide advice, resources, and feedback on housing, 
childcare, employment, and other necessities of civilian life. These 
conversations, should they happen earlier, have the potential to not 
only better prepare servicemembers for their transition into higher 
education, but reduce the stress caused by that transition. Further, 
organizations like the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) and America's 
Warrior Partnership (AWP) provide essential services to veterans that 
would likewise be better served if they were introduced earlier in the 
transition process.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \36\ 2022 SVA Basic Needs and Wellness Report (in process), held 
with authors.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The updated TAP structure also fails to appropriately prioritize 
education. A straightforward comparison between the length of online 
workshops shows that a more robust curriculum has been developed for 
career-related tracks than education. At only 240 minutes, a 
transitioning servicemember cannot obtain the needed guidance required 
to make informed decisions, particularly those that carry such weight 
and impact on their futures. With the addition of Skillbridge, and the 
emphasis placed there, as well as other programs offered toward 
transitions into careers, servicemembers, again a majority of whom 
transition through higher education, are not shown the value or 
importance that DoD places on education transition services. There is 
simply an imbalance in the emphasis placed on transition tracks.
    The prioritization of TAP by the chain of command is also an issue. 
Anecdotally and in response to surveys, some student veterans have 
reported that the culture of their unit is unsupportive when it comes 
to TAP. Some transitioning servicemembers do not understand the 
importance of the program because its importance is not stressed to 
them. Some within the command structure of the transitioning 
servicemember do not see TAP as important. For example, many survey 
respondents noted the struggle in making time to complete the education 
workshop where requests for that time were denied. This aligns with 
Government Accountability Office findings that roughly a quarter of 
transitioning servicemembers who needed maximum support did not attend 
a two-day class and that, overall, 70 percent of servicemembers did not 
begin the TAP process at least one year prior to separation.\37\ While 
these are not the most common complaints and were certainly more common 
before the FY 2019 NDAA changes to TAP, the persistence of this 
mentality throughout the chain of command does not support a successful 
transition.
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    \37\ U.S. GOV'T ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE, GAO-23-104538, SERVICE 
MEMBERS TRANSITIONING TO CIVILIAN LIFE 11-22 (2022).
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    Lastly, we would be remiss if we did not take this opportunity to 
add that, while TAP is defined as an outcomes-based approach to 
transition, the lack of data available on those who make that 
transition through higher education - count of individuals degree 
choices, successes, debt, and post-graduation earnings - stands as an 
impediment to any outcomes assessment of a transition program aimed at 
successful transitions through higher education. Data sharing between 
the U.S. Department of Defense, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, 
U.S. Department of Education, and U.S. Department of Labor to identify 
the true outcomes of veterans' post-transition is imperative.

                                 

    The continued success of veterans in higher education in the Post-
9/11 era is no mistake or coincidence. In our Nation's history, 
educated veterans have always been the best of a generation and the key 
to solving our most complex challenges. Today's student veterans carry 
this legacy forward.
    We thank the Chair, Ranking Member, and the Subcommittee Members 
for your time, attention, and devotion to the cause of veterans in 
higher education.
                                 ______
                                 

                   Prepared Statement of Jim Lorraine

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and Members of the 
Subcommittee - thank you for the invitation to testify before you 
today.
    The topic of veteran's employment and transition is a very 
important one. We all know that transition between jobs is one of most 
volatile times in a life, but even more so when it involves a change of 
culture. A change of routine. A change of location. The loss of 
camaraderie. And sometimes, the loss of a sense of purpose.
    Together, this has repeatedly shown to lead to the feeling of 
hopelessness. And the loss of hope is one of the largest contributing 
factors of veteran suicide.
    At America's Warrior Partnership (AWP), veteran's suicide and 
suicide prevention are the top priority and focus. Our entire mission 
at AWP is ``Partnering With Communities to Prevent Veteran Suicide.''
    Part of this effort is understanding the veteran and getting to 
know each one in the community. From there, it is assessing their needs 
and goals. And without a doubt, meaningful and fulfilling employment is 
one of the top goals.
    Communities recognize the opportunity veterans, and their families 
bring to their counties and regions. Our partner, the Permian Strategic 
Partnership (PSP), led by Tracee Bentley, are focused on improving the 
quality of life for their residence of the Permian Basin of Texas and 
New Mexico to improve both the quality and quantity of their workforce. 
In the Permian Basin, AWP is integrating TAP, GI Bill, Apprenticeship, 
Skillbridge and ENPP into a recruitment and community development 
program. The PSP serves as a model for communities who recognize that 
improving the lives of veterans and their families isn't just the right 
thing to do, it's the smart thing to do.
    Everyone knows veterans are exceptionally disciplined and hard-
working employees. Veterans possess unique skills and experiences that 
are invaluable in a workplace. However, ensuring that as servicemembers 
are leaving the military, they are made aware of the skills they 
possess, the tools and resources available, and opportunities ahead of 
them are essential to make sure these individuals match with a career 
that fits their skills, needs, and goals.
    The greatest indictment of our military is often how we treat our 
veterans. And the next generation is watching. The military is 
completely dependent on volunteer recruitment, and despite their best 
efforts, they are behind. This is happening despite the military being 
a ``family business.'' Many who serve have parents or siblings or 
grandparents that also served. And when those 15 to 17-year-olds see 
how their families and friends are being treated by the Department of 
Defense and the VA after service, many quickly chose not to join.
    At America's Warrior Partnership, we recognized this immediately. 
While many organizations help veterans find jobs, we found that most 
companies did not know how to utilize or help the veterans and their 
families who were already in the workforce. In response, AWP began the 
Corporate Veterans Initiative (CVI). This program was designed to help 
take care of veterans' needs in the workplace. Whether it is help with 
the VA, help finding local volunteer communities, or help transitioning 
into a new community - AWP has programs in place to assist and work 
with the company to ensure the military connected employees' needs are 
met.
    It sounds simple - but it was necessary. And the results have been 
terrific. The Corporate Veterans Initiative, powered by AWP's Network 
consisting of thousands of partners, raises morale and productivity for 
veterans - and helps employee retention and recruitment. A win-win. A 
happy employee is much more likely to encourage their friends and 
others to join the company. Meanwhile, the veteran's success directly 
helps drive an ongoing narrative that veterans are successful post-
service in the workplace and help foster a great working environment. 
Highlighting these types of successes can help drive military 
recruitment for the next generation.
    With Veteran unemployment sitting at a historic low of 2.2 percent 
last month, the DOD, working with corporations and nonprofits like AWP, 
should shift its focus to the issue of underemployment, which is often 
nearly as traumatic for some as unemployment. A bad fit in a company or 
being underutilized at a job that does not appreciate their skills and 
experience, can be defeating and demoralizing. Learning what resources 
are available, and how skills translate to post-military employment, as 
well as what industries are hiring and where they have unfilled, good 
paying jobs are key to helping address underemployment.
    In the end, unemployment, underemployment, and transition 
turbulence lead to loss of identity and purpose and combined with 
financial insecurity - all contribute to hopelessness. Ensuring 
veterans have a purpose and are financially stable are the ultimate 
issues that we are here to address today.
    Programs led by a coordination of DOD, VA, and DOL have made 
significant progress in helping veterans navigate this transition 
better.
    However, much of this process is DOD heavy. Many of the transitions 
happen while service members are still on active duty, so it is natural 
that DOD has the greatest sway. However, the DOD must realize that VA 
and DOL need more time and resources during that process - once service 
members leave DOD, there are few services available to them. Meanwhile, 
the VA and DOL will be with these former service members from that 
moment on.
    At the Department of Labor, Veterans Employment and Training 
Service (DOL-VETS), they have a very successful and creative program at 
bases around the globe. This program, called the Employment Navigator & 
Partnership Pilot (ENPP), is primarily aimed to provide service members 
with resources for understanding their skills and securing meaningful 
employment in communities where the veterans and their families can 
thrive. An important and often overlooked aspect of this program is 
that ENPP is also open to spouses. As these service members begin 
thinking about their transition, they can utilize ENPP to look at the 
job market, research geographic regions, craft resumes, and other pre-
career functions. This program should be expanded with funding and 
growth in communities participating in ENPP.
    At ENPP, once the service member has an idea of what they would 
like to do and where they would like to live, there are many ENPP 
partnerships that can assist. These range from Veteran Service 
Organizations to major employers. This is important because it is a 
first glimpse into what comes next in their career and helps provide a 
resource that they can continue to lean on during that transition. ENPP 
is harnessing the Sea of Goodwill.
    For some service members who need assistance during their military 
career, they utilize existing programs such as the USO. Once they begin 
to transition out of the military, the USO's partnership with America's 
Warrior Partnership provides a warm handoff to ensure they are taken 
care in whatever community they choose.
    While much has been made about the high-profile use of the GI Bill, 
and the ubiquitous use of the program, very little fanfare has been 
made of the VA Apprenticeship Program. This program provides GI Bill 
like funding for veterans to receive certifications in the trades. 
However, college isn't for everyone. And there is a growing need and 
demand for skilled labor. But there is minimal use of this program due 
to low promotion rate and reduced living stipend as compared to those 
using the GI Bill. It is time to update and reform the program and make 
it useful for those leaving the military.
    One of the biggest changes to the VA Apprenticeship program needs 
to be the update to the cost-of-living paid to the students. Currently, 
it is a percentage of what is paid to those using the GI Bill. That 
needs to end. There should be parity. Second - this program must not in 
any way use or draw down from the veterans GI Bill benefits. Many 
students would see the potential value of a degree and would shy away 
from using it on an apprenticeship - even though it was their desired 
career path and numerous, high-paying, jobs available.
    Next, more work needs to be done to ensure the costs of the 
apprenticeship do not unduly fall on the employers. These include the 
costs of the certificates and licensure. While the cost is very small, 
some require specific courses to be taken and are currently paid for by 
the employers. Then the employers take the students for on-the-job 
training. In short-there is a lot required from employers already. And 
if opportunities continue, we must eliminate that burden and make it 
easier for employers to find and partner with students participating in 
the VA Apprenticeship program.
    And finally, I am here to thoroughly applaud and commend the 
Skillbridge program. We have heard from veterans all over the Nation, 
and when the program is done correctly - it has been one of the best 
job placement programs we have worked with. To make it more widespread 
and effective, I would like to offer several recommended fixes to the 
Skillbridge program.
    Skillbridge needs to be consistent across the DoD, available 
everywhere, and more companies need to know what the program is, how it 
works, and can provide no cost opportunities to transitioning service 
members without excessive bureaucracy. Every base should offer the 
program and every single service member should be able to fully 
participate to the maximum. Commanders should have only minimal input 
on the program and approval should be mandatory, as this is at the end 
of the service members' career - and is focused on transitioning out of 
the military. I suggest the program administration moves to the 
Department of Labor for full execution and integration into the 
Nation's employer space.
    Next, more flexibility regarding billets must be given to assist 
with Commander's approval and to help better encourage the usage of the 
program. DoD must find ways to balance their recruitment and their 
separation numbers to ensure every service member has this opportunity. 
Every effort must be made to encourage junior enlisted personnel in 
addition to senior enlisted and officers who are utilizing the 
Skillbridge program at greater rates than E-5s and below. Further, many 
service members have issues with cashing out leave at the end of their 
service. Current policy forces many to either take leave before the 
program or create an unusual pause after the program while leave is 
used.
    Last, there are legislative changes that must occur to support 
veterans in the workplace. Currently, veteran protected status is only 
provided to those who served on active duty and are a disabled veteran, 
a veteran who served during a period of war, or those within three 
years of active-duty discharge. By changing the veteran protected 
status to all who served in the National Guard, Reserve, or active-duty 
and were discharged in a status other than dishonorable, you would 
protect the employee rights of all who served our Nation in military 
uniform while empowering the employers to not only know, but 
understand, the needs of veterans in their companies who are eligible 
for greater support.
    Again, thank you to everyone on the Committee for your invaluable 
work on the important topic of suicide prevention. We look forward to 
working with you all and stand by to assist. Thank you, and I look 
forward to your questions.
                                 ______
                                 

               Prepared Statement of Hernan Luis y Prado

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