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NOMINATIONS

GOVERNMENT

Storage

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KANSAS

IL 2 1973

IP c.rt;,..ITY

HEARING

BEFORE THE

-o

r- COMMITTEE ON

_0 1OR AND PUBLIC WELFARE

UNITED STATES SENATE

,R,-4 NINETY-THIRD CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

ON

WILLIAM J. KILBERG, OF NEW YORK, TO BE SOLICITOR FOR

THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR

AND

PAUL J. FASSER, OF VIRGINIA, TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF LABOR FOR LABOR-MANAGEMENT RELATIONS

APRIL 5, 1973

Printed for the use of the

Committee on Labor and Public Welfare

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

94-5190 WASHINGTON : 1978

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6:4, •

COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE

HARRISON A. WILLIAMS, JR., New Jersey, Chairman,

JENNINGS RANDOLPH, West Virginia

CLAIBORNE PELL, Rhode Island

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts

GAYLORD NELSON, Wisconsin

WALTER F. MONDALE, Minnesota

THOMAS F. EAGLETON, Missouri

ALAN CRANSTON, California

HAROLD E. HUGHES, Iowa

WILLIAM D. HATHAWAY, Maine

JACOB K. JAVITS, New York

PETER H. DOMINICK, Colorado

RICHARD S. SCHWEIKER, Pennsylvania

ROBERT TAFT, JR., Ohio

J. GLENN BEALL, JR., Maryland

ROBERT T. STAFFORD, Vermont

STEwART E. MpCLurtE, Chief Clerk

ROBERT E. NAGLE, Genera/ Counsel

ROY H. MILLENSON, Minority Chief Clerk

EUGENE MITTELMAN, Minority COUBSe/

(n)

• 11••

-74 I
NOMINATIONS

APRIL, 5, 1973

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE,

Washington, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:45 a.m. in room 4132,

Dirksen Building, Hon. Harrison Williams (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Williams, Randolph, Pell, Mondale, Javits,

Schweiker, Bea11, and Stafford.

Committee staff members present: Robert E. Nagle, general

counsel; and Eugene Mittelman, minority counsel.

The CHAIRMAN. The Labor and Public Welfare Committee's hearing on nominations will come to order.

We have Ambassador Keating here with us to introduce Mr. William

J. Kilberg, who has been nominated as Solicitor of Labor.

Ambassador, we certainly are honored to have you here this

morning.

STATEMENT OF HON. KENNETH KEATING, FORMER U.S.

AMBASSADOR; NEW YORK N.Y.

Ambassador KEATING. Mr. Chairman, it is a great pleasure to be

here. I must express my thanks to you for permitting me to proceed

a little bit out of order, both as to time and also for the rather unorthodox manner of a "has been" being permitted to introduce a

nominee for high office.

I also want to express my appreciation to Senator Javits who very

kindly stepped aside because of my personal relations with Mr.

Kilberg and Mrs. Kilberg and allowed me to do this.

Being as that I am related to the nominee by marriage as his

brilliant wife was one of what I called my whiz kids when I was here

in the Senate I only met him after their marriage. She brought him

around before the ceremony to get my approval and I gave it, and

I am sure I made no mistake.

Bill Kilberg attended the School of Industrial & Labor Relations

at Cornell and he was on a scholarship given by Local No. 3 of the

International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers. He later received

his J.D. from Harvard Law School and went on to become a White

House fellow from the Labor Department, serving there as assistant

to the Secretary. While working there he was assigned to projects

relating to labor management, civil rights and so on, and then he

was appointed and acted for a year as the General Counsel of the

Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service. After that was promoted

to be Associate Solicitor of the Labor Department for labor relations

and civil rights and served in that capacity something over a year

and a half and has now been nominated to be the Solicitor of Labor.

(1)
2

I can vouch completely for the nominee and commend him most

highly to your favorable consideration, both as to ability—all of his

work has been in the field of labor—and also as to his character.

Again I express my thanks for being permitted to come here and

say a few words in his behalf.

The CHAIRMAN. We are most grateful to you, Mr. Keating, for this

testimony in support of this nomination.

Obviously it has a great deal of meaning because of your familiarity

with his work over the years, going into an increasingly important

role as Solicitor of Labor.

I know there are some legislative efforts that are on their way

through this committee that will bring a great deal of additional responsibility to this office, so I am glad to say that Mr. Kilberg is not

old and weary in office. He comes with youthful vibrance that I believe he will need in this position.

Your statement is most helpful to the committee.

Senator Beall.

Senator BEALL. I am sorry, Mr. Ambassador, that I missed your

statement, but Mr. Kilberg could not be in finer company. Even

though I did not hear your statement 

Ambassador KEATING. You missed some vibrant oratory.

Senator BEALL. I am sure I did.

The CHAIRMAN. We now have Mr. William J. Kilberg nominated

to be Solicitor of Labor. At this point we will enter Mr. Kilberg's

biography and position description for the record.
3

RESUME

William J. Kilberg 

Associate Solicitor

U. S. Department of Labor September 1971 to Present

General Counsel

Federal Mediation & Conciliation Service August 1970 to September 1971

Special Assistant to the Secretary of Labor

(White House Fellow), U. S. Department of

Labor September 1969 to August 1970

Research Associate for Labor Matters

Republican Presidential Campaign Committee April 1968 to November 1968

Legal Assistant, Labor Relations

Associates, Boston, Massachusetts November 1967 to June 1968

Apprentice Electrician, Local #3, IBEW

Education 

HARVARD LAW SCHOOL, J.D., 1969

Summers 1963-1967

SCHOOL OF INDUSTRIAL & LABOR RELATIONS, CORNELL UNIV., BS, 1966

(Father Kelley Scholarship Recipient, Local #3, IBEW)

BROOKLYN COLLEGE (Accelerated Program), 1964

Professional Associations 

Member, Local #3, IBEW

American Bar Assoc.

New York Bar Assoc.

Federal Bar Assoc.

District of Columbia Bar Assoc.

American Judicature Society

Anti-Defamation League of B'Nai Brith; Regional Board of Directors;

National Civil Rights Committee

Recent Publications 

"Labor Relations in the Municipal Service," 7 Harvard Journal on Legislation 1,

November 1969.

"Appropriate Subjects for Bargaining in Local Government Labor Relations,"

30 Maryland Law Review 179, Summer 1970.
4

-2-

"The FMCS and Arbitration: Problems and Prospects," Monthly Labor Review,

April 1971.

"The Strike in Public Employment," Collective Bargaining in Public 

Employment: Readings & Cases, Prentice Hall, 1971.

"Labor Mediation in the Seventies," to be published in Proceedings of the 

New York University Institute of Labor Relations, 1972.

"Making Realistic the Arbitration Alternative," 50 Journal of Urban Law 21,

August 1972.

"Grievance and Arbitration Patterns in the Federal Service," Monthly Labor 

Review, November 1972.

(Numerous speeches, addresses, etc., referenced in the labor press,

particularly the Bureau of National Affairs and the Commerce Clearing

House.)

Bus. Address Home Address 

U. S. Department of Labor

Office of the Solicitor

Room 4128

Washington, D. C. 20210

Date of Birth: June 12, 1946

Married

821 Clinton Place

McLean, Virginia 22101
5

JAMES D. HODGSON

March 30, 1973

Dear Senator:

I understand that Mr. William J. Kilberg has the honor

to appear this week before your Committee in a confirmation hearing in connection with his nomination for the

position of Solicitor in the Department of Labor.

Submission of this letter in support of the nomination

of Mr. Kilberg may be considered a somewhat extraordinary act on my part, but it is an act prompted by

the fact that Mr. Kilberg is an extraordinary candidate.

I feel in the position to commend Mr. Kilberg's qualifications to you on two counts - first, my familiarity with

his service during the period I served as Secretary and

Under Secretary of Labor and, second, my professional

career experience in the development, appraisal and

selection of executives.

Considering Mr. Kilberg's age, I would like to nail down

one fact at the outset. Though of modest years,

Mr. Kilberg is a lawyer and executive of outstanding

professional skill, breadth of judgment and depth of

character. He has shown a capacity to bring mature

decision making to complicated and weighty problems of

public policy that might normally have tested the capacity

of men two decades his senior.
6

In the Department of Labor, we followed a management

philosophy that granted a wide latitude of initiative and

decision-making to those who showed special capacity.

Mr. Kilberg early demonstrated his unusual capacity for

dealing effectively with important problems. As a result,

he was given a scope of assignment and extent of authority

which I believe prepare him admirably for the impressive

responsibilities he will have as Solicitor.

It is important to understand that Mr. Kilberg's progress

and achievements were not attained at the sacrifice of

favorable relationships among those with whom he worked

and dealt. His work, judgment and character have been

commended to me by governors, mayors, corporation

and union presidents. I, in turn, commend him to your

consideration as a man senior in judgment and performance, if not in years.

In my judgment, the nation will be well served by the

confirmation of Mr. Kilberg.

Very truly yours,

The Honorable

Jacob K. Javits

Senate Labor and Public Welfare Committee

Washington, D. C. 20510

LOCKHEED AIRCRAFT CORPORATION

BURBANK, CALIFORNIA 91503
7

[Excerpt from U.S. Government Organizational Manual 1972-731

THE SOLICITOR OF LABOR

The Solicitor has responsibility for all the legal activities of the Department,

its legislative program, and serves as legal adviser to the Secretary and other

officials of the Department.

The Solicitor, through a subordinate staff of attorneys in Washington and 16

field offices, directs a broad scale litigation effort pertaining to the many statutes

administered by the Department including institution and prosecution of Civil

Court actions under the Fair Labor Standards Act, as amended, and the trial of

cases under the Longshoremen's and Harbor Workers' Compensation Act; attorneys

also represent the Department in administrative hearings under various statutes.

The cited litigation is conducted independently under an agreement and delegation

of authority from the Department of Justice. Litigation under several other acts

is carried out in cooperation with the Department of Justice.

Appellate litigation is conducted by attorneys in the national headquarters,

whereas the large majority of litigation under various statutes is carried out by

attorneys under the direction of the regional solicitors and attorneys who are the

legal advisers to the Department officials in the field.

Senator JAVITS. Mr. Chairman, if I may be recognized before we

hear the witness, I would like to state that I have a number of letters

on Mr. Kilberg which I would like to introduce in the record and also,

Mr. Chairman, to refer to the most unusual fact respecting

Mr. Kilberg's background as nominee for Solicitor of the Department

of Labor. He obtained his opportunity to attend Cornell in the school

of industrial labor relations on- a scholarship which was established

through collective bargaining between Local No. 3 of the International

Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, which has its situs in New York,

and the leader of which is Harry Van Arsdale. This is a program which

gives former union members and union members the opportunity to

put their children in as journeymen, also as apprentices, and after

a period of training in the industry, makes them eligible for scholarships, and this is exactly the course through which Mr. Kilberg passed

and I think it is uniquely appropriate that he should move into the

Department which seeks exactly that kind of labor development. I

ask unanimous consent that extracts from a book entitled "Labor

and the American Community," which describes this extremely gifted

program of the union and electrical industry, the passage which

appears on pages 376 and 377 may be made a part of my remark.

Mr. Chairman, the occasion is signalized by the presence here of a

delegation which was encountered on the way down in the plane this

morning, headed by Donald Menagh, vice chairman of the education

and cultural trust fund of the electrical industry, who is here with

representatives of workers—and I should submit a list for the

record—and representatives of employers to support and to take

pride in this nomination by the President. Now further, Mr. Chairman,

I would like to refer to a number of letters, of a really extraordinary

kind which I have received on this nomination. First and foremost is

a letter from, the immediate past Secretary of Labor Jim Hodgson,

and he says, and I am going to quote it because it is so important

considering that Mr. Kilberg worked—as his biography showed—

under Mr. Hodgson. He says:

Considering Mr. Kilberg's age, he is a young man of 27, I would like to nail

down one fact at the outset. Though of modest years, Mr. Kilberg is a lawyer and

executive of outstanding professional skill, breadth of judgment, and depth of

character. He has shown a capacity to bring mature decision making to complicated and weighty problems of public policy that might normally have tested

the capacity of men two decades have seen.

94-519 0 - 73 - 2
8

I ask unanimous consent that the whole letter be made a part of

the record.

The CHAIRMAN. It will be.

[The information referred to follows:]

[Excerpt from Labor and the American Community, pp. 376-377]

In the area of educational and cultural programs, no local in the country can

surpass Local 3 of the I.B.E.W. under the leadership of Harry Van Arsdale.

Some of the Local 3 programs are intensely practical, such as the five-year apprenticeship training and a variety of courses in new electrical skills and techniques.

Other programs for the rank and file include labor history and trade-unionism

classes taught with assistance from Cornell University. But for Van Arsdale,

who himself completed only two years of high school, an education program

implies much more than courses in union affairs and skill training. A special

fund provides full four-year tuition scholarships to allow children of members

to attend college. Over thirty grants are offered each year, and the union has

awarded almost five hundred since the program began in 1949. Local 3 also

provides tuition grants to every member or member's wife who wishes to take

college courses for credit. Within the local itself, classes taught by union members

with prior college training are offered in civics and government. Van Arsdale

selects these members, called Futurians, who are trained by a retired dean of

Columbia University. In addition to serving as instructors, they provide a fertile

source of administrative talent for the local itself. Even more unusual are the

courses in critical thinking offered to members at Bayberry, a 314-acre estate on

Long Island once owned by Dwight Davis, the donor of the international tennis

cup. For one week, small groups of members work from 8:30 to 5:15 on a range

of subjects including public speaking, logic, semantics, and psychology. By 1968,

some 13,000 members had completed this course. Although skeptics well may

wonder how much progress can be made on such subjects in one short week, many

members testify to the value of the classes in broadening their interests. And

there are even employers who suggest that their workers have become more alert

and effective after completing the course.

In recent years, Van Arsdale has pushed beyond education to introduce cultural

programs. In the union's new auditorium, arts festivals consisting of exhibits,

ballets, concerts, and illustrated lectures have been arranged for members. Special

performances have been given of musical comedies and well-known operas and

ballets. The union also arranges group travel tours, and officials of the local

have been sent on expenses-paid trips abroad. (Characteristically, however, Van

Arsdale has allowed only those officials to participate who have completed a

special prepared course in world affairs.)

LIST OF ELECTRICAL INDUSTRY DELEGATION ATTENDING HEARING

Oscar Gerenstein, President, Silmar Electric Co., Inc., Brooklyn, N.Y.

J. Robert Mann, Jr., Vice President E-J Electric Installation Co., New York, N.Y.

Donald Wenagh, Vice Chairman, Educational Scholarship Fund of the Electrical Fund, New York, N.Y.

M. R. Minto, MacNutt Electric Company Inc., Electrical Contracting Engineers,

New York, N.Y.

Anthony Ruocco, Jr., Director, Educational and Cultural Trust Fund of the

Electrical Industry, Flushing, N.Y.

David E. Smith, Director, Apprentice Training Program, Joint Industry Board

of the Electrical Industry, Flushing, N.Y.

Walter Whitelaw, Whitelaw Electrical Contracting Co., Inc., Long Island City,

N.Y.

Senator JAVITS. I also have a letter from Peter Nash, General

Counsel for the National Labor Relations Board, very much to the

same effect in which he says I am pleased wholeheartedly to indorse

this nomination and ask that that be included.

I have one from Secretary of Treasury George Shultz, who also had

supervision over Mr. Kilberg when he served as a White House fellow

from September 1969 to 1970, when Secretary Shultz was Secretary

of Labor. He too gives very complete support to the nomination.
9

I ask unanimous consent that that letter be included in the record.

I also have a letter from Curtis Counts, who was as we know head of

the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service and who is also

testifying to Mr. Kilberg's work while serving under Mr. Counts. I ask

that be included.

Finally a letter from Laurence Silberman, immediate past Undersecretary of Labor, whom Mr. Kilberg also worked under and who

again states: "I unhesitatingly recommend him to you and your

colleagues."

I ask this be included in the record.

The CHAIRMAN. They will be.

[Letters referred to follow]
10

NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD

OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL

Washington, D.C. 20570

April 3, 1973

Honorable Jacob K. Javits

United States Senate

Washington, D. C. 20510

Dear Senator Javits:

I understand that the Senate Labor and Public

Welfare Committee is considering the nomination of

William Kilberg to be Solicitor of the Department of

Labor. As a former Solicitor of that Department and

as one personally familiar with Mr. Kilberg, I wish

to wholeheartedly endorse this appointment.

Although young in years, Mr. Kilberg is more

than capable of dealing with the full range of Labor

Department problems as its Solicitor including important

Solicitor Office functions in the law enforcement field

under the Fair Labor Standards Act, Executive Order 11246,

the Occupational Safety and Health Act and Landrum-Griffin

Act. I am further convinced that Mr. Kilberg's experience

at the Department of Labor, as well as the Federal Mediation

and Conciliation Service, more than qualifies him for a

position as an important policy official in the Department

of Labor.

In sum, I am pleased to wholeheartedly endorse this

nomination.

Peter G. Nash

General Counsel
11

THE SECRETARY OF THE TREASURY

WASHINGTON 20220

April 3, 1973

Dear Senator Javits:

I am writing to express my support for the

nomination of William J. Kilberg to be Solicitor

of Labor.

Bill, in his capacity as a White House Fellow,

served as my Special Assistant from September, 1969

to June, 1970, when I was Secretary of Labor. In

that capacity, and as Acting Executive Assistant

to Under Secretary Hodgson, Bill was given a wide

range of responsibilities and was involved in the

development and implementation of major policy

decisions.

I found Bill Kilberg to be a man of considerable

intellectual ability. Throughout the period of our

working relationship, Bill consistently showed

himself capable of dealing with the most difficult

and sensitive issues in a manner befitting someone

of far greater years and experience.

I have followed Bill's career closely since

that time. There is no question in my mind that

Bill Kilberg is capable of dealing with the many

challenging responsibilities that the Solicitor of

Labor must face. I support his nomination wholeheartedly.

The Honorable

Jacob K. Javits

United States Senate

Washington, D.C. 20510

Sincerely yours,

George P. 12442 Shultz --

P

94-519 0- 73 - 3
12

Contractors Mutual Association

Suite 600, 1620 Eye Street NW

Washington, DC 20006

202 785-3222

Office of the President

The Honorable Jacob K. Javits

United States Senate

Room 320

Old Senate Office Building

Washington, D. C. 20510

Dear Senator Javits:

CUM

CT APR 3 1973

April 2, 1973

This is in reference to the nomination of Mr. William J.

Kilberg to become Solicitor for the Department of Labor.

•

Mr. Kilberg served under my direction as General

Counsel of the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service during

the period August 1970 to September 1971. His termination was

voluntary to accept a position as an Associate Solicitor in the

Department of Labor.

Despite his youth and relative lack of experience,

Mr. Kilberg was a real asset to our organization. He conducted

himself as a professional at all times and his advice and counsel,

in the labor as well as the legal field, was of value to the successful discharge of the Ageticy's important responsibilities.

Very uly yours,

J. Curtis Counts

President
13

STEPTOE & JOHNSON

ATTORNEYS AT LAW

1250 CONNECTICUT AVENUE

WASHINGTON, O• C• 20036

(202) 223-4600

tiECD APR 3 1941

April 2, 1973

The Honorable Jacob K. Javits

United States Senate

Old Senate Office Building

Room 326

Washington, D. C. 20510

Dear Senator Javits:

I should like to express my unequivocal support

for The President's nomination of William Kilberg to be

Solicitor of Labor.

Bill has worked with, and for, me over the last

three years in various positions including his most recent,

Associate Solicitor for Labor Relations and Civil Rights.

During that time, he has exhibited not only exceptional

legal ability but a degree of wisdom, loyalty and maturity

extraordinary for one of his age.

As you know, the Solicitor for the Labor

Department is directly responsible for a broad litigation

program including the enforcement of the Wage and Hour,

Safety, and Landrum-Griffin laws. He also plays a major

role in the formulation of legislative positions and the

negotiations within the Administration and with the Congress

that follow the formulation of departmental positions.

Finally, the Solicitor must act as the Secretary's legal

counselor as well as supervise the legal advice given to

subordinates of the Secretary. It is my judgment that

Bill Kilberg has clearly demonstrated the capacity to

perform all of these important functions in a first-class

manner. I unhesitatingly recommend him to you and your

colleagues.

Sincer ly,

/.

Laurtnce H. Silberman

LHS:jer
14

pouring 

Senator JAVITS. Mr. Chairman, I have rarely seen such an outwould 

of support, and especially in view of the fact that I like others

not 

immediately question whether the youth of the nominee should

thought 

be a factor in considering the critical importance of the job, I

it desirable to place these in the record. Finally, Mr. Chairman, I would like to emphasize that the respon- sibilities of the Solicitor in my judgment should include the repreSupreme 

sentation of the Department in proceedings other than the U.S.

as 

Court relating to the Occupational Safety and Health Act, it does to the Fair Labor Standards Act. Now this issue has been decided adversely by the Office of Manage- ment 

much 

and Budget. I do not agree with that decision. I hope very it will be reopened and that the skill and excellence of the nominee, if confirmed, will go a long way toward assuring the President that we will have better administration of that aspect of the Occupa- tional Safety and Health legislation which comes into the courts if the responsibility for handling those proceedings under the Justice Department supervision is vested in the Labor Department, than if it is thrown in with the enormous mass of cases and diversity of jurisdic- tional responsibility which is involved in the Department of Justice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Senator Javits. This is an unusually strong launch for a nominee. Some point has been made of your youth or relative youth. Certainly we will be wel- coming your counsel on a rather sticky part of the wage legislation, the youth differential.

Senator SCHWEIKER. I consider that an asset, not a liability. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Kilberg, do you have a statement? Would you proceed to that.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM J. KILBERG, NOMINATED TO BE

SOLICITOR OF THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR

Mr. KILBERG. I would like first to thank Senator Javits for his very kind remarks. I would like to thank Ambassador Keating for traveling down here from New York, leaving his law firm for a day to come down here to introduce me to this committee, and I would like to thank the members of Local No. 3 of the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers, those persons here from the educational and cultural trust fund of the electrical industry and representatives of management in the electrical industry, who have come down here today to witness this hearing. I am very appreciative.

I am pleased to appear before this committee in connection with my nomination as Solicitor of Labor.

The Solicitor, in my judgment, occupies one of the most important labor posts in the Federal Government. His direct responsibilities extend to the entire range of Department of Labor programs—from occupational safety and health enforcement to major manpower and antipoverty efforts; from labor standards to key Federal nondis- crimination and civil rights programs.

The Solicitor's responsibilities are not limited to programs admin- istered by the Department of Labor. As chief legal adviser to the Secretary, his advice may be sought on the full panoply of issues affecting the Nation's working men and women.
15

My experience, both in and outside of government, has made me

sensitive to the importance of these issues and to the mission of the

Department of Labor. Labor matters were a major focus of my interest during the period of my formal education. While studying for

my bachelor of science degree at the Cornell School of Industrial and

Labor Relations, my primary area of emphasis was the field of labor

economics. Subsequently, while a student at the Harvard Law School,

I was asked by Governor Sargent to serve on his task force on labor

employment. This task force was charged with the responsibility for

examining a wide range of labor relations questions in both the public

and private sectors.

After receiving my law degree, I was selected to participate in the

White House Fellows program. While a participant in this program, I

was privileged to serve as a Special Assistant to Secretary Shultz and

for a brief period as Acting Executive Assistant to then Under Secretary Hodgson. This experience afforded me a general overview of

Department of Labor programs and activities.

Later, as General Counsel of the Federal Mediation and Conciliation

Service, in addition to my office management responsibilities, I had the

chance to deepen my understanding of the employer-employee relationship by observing the collective bargaining process at close perspective. I have come to know personally many labor arbitrators and

attorneys representing all parties. This experience has heightened my

awareness of the complexity and dynamism of the labor relations

process.

When I was appointed Associate Solicitor for Labor Relations and

Civil Rights in 1971, I was given the opportunity to apply this experience within the context of some of the Nation's most delicate labormanagement issues.

We are all aware of the controversy that has often surrounded the

Government's contract compliance effort. Implementation of the

affirmative action concept has affected a wide spectrum of labormanagement practices and has required a sensitivity to the legitimate

concerns of both labor and management. It has involved adjustment

of delicate Federal, State and local relationships. It has frequently

required a close dovetailing with Department of Labor manpower programs in order to provide an adequate pool of trained job applicants.

It has required careful coordination with other Federal nondiscrimination and civil rights efforts. Some of these, such as the Equal PayAct and the Age Discrimination in Employment Act, are also administered by the Department of Labor. Others are within the responsibility of the Department of Justice and the Equal Employment

Opportunity Commission.

As difficult and emotional as these issues sometimes are, I have always believed that they, and indeed most human problems, are solvable if men of good will are willing to bend their backs toward a

solution.

My experiences have given me an opportunity to gage the magnitude of the solicitor's responsibilities. I know that it is an extraordinarily challenging position—a job which expands to meet the size

of its occupant. I also know, from personal experience, that the complex matter with which a solicitor deals are not merely abstract or

theoretical. They are flesh and blood problems in the truest sense. I

have had the opportunity to serve as an apprentice electrician. I have
16

worked on a number of construction jobs. I am not unaware of the

nature of physical labor nor am I insensitive to its daily problems and physical risks. If confirmed, I would weigh every decision as solicitor with this awareness and with this sensitivity.

I also know that successful performance will involve much hard

work and personal sacrifice. I would hope to profit from the views of those individuals, including members of this committee, who have

considerable experience with Labor Department programs and activities.

pledge to this committee that, if confirmed, I will keep an open mind in matters committed to my judgment. I also promise that I

will devote to this work my maximum best efforts.

I thank you for this opportunity to present my views and would

be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much Mr. Kilberg. Senator Javits

introduced a description of the scholarship program that you were

selected under. Is that a jointly administered scholarship program,

union and management?

Mr. KILBERG. I believe it is at the present time. When I received

the scholarship, it was solely a Local 3 scholarship, the William J.

Kelly Scholarship. There is now an educational and trust fund which

gives the scholarship, I believe it is jointly administered.

The CHAIRMAN. This is one of the specially legislated exceptions

that permits such joint administration?

Mr. KILBERG. SO I understand.

The CHAIRMAN. There is another exception that we are about to go

into hearings on, legal services. Are you familiar with that legislation?

Mr. KILBERG. Yes, I am aware of that, it would amend Section

302(c) of Taft-Hartley Act to permit joint funding of legal services

programs.

The CHAIRMAN. Probably we will be hearing from you on that if

you are confirmed.

Just one or two points I would like to address myself to, Mr.

Kilberg. First you, of course, are deeply involved in implementing the

Office of Federal Contract Compliance program. As I understand it,

central to the implementing of the OFCC program is the development

of corrective action plans. Is that an accurate statement?

Mr. KILBERG. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. Jt is also my information that you regard these

corrective action plans as being the sole property of the contractor.

In other words, it is information that is not part of the information

that would be disclosed under the Public Information Act. Has that

been your position?

Mr. KILBERG. It is a little more complex than that, Senator, if I

may go into it. In Order No. 4, which is the basic series of regulations

affecting nonconstruction contractors under the Executive order

program, there is a reference to affirmative action plans or programs

and corrective action programs. Affirmative action programs deal

with prospective employees and prospective movement of. present,

employees. The contractor is required to analyze each job classification in each facility which is under his control. The contractor must

determine what the level of underutilization is and set goals and timetables and procedures by which he would remedy that underutilization. That is basically his affirmative action plan. The order also
17

refers to the possible existence of an tiffected class, which must be

dealt with in a corrective action program.

An affected class is a group of individuals who are suffering present

effects of prior discrimination by a particular employe. It is different

from the concept of underutilization, which does not involve discrimination of that employer but is the result of discrimination

generally. Recently in January, I believe, we issued an order called

Order No. 14 which directs or gives guidance to the various compliance

agencies conducting contractor evaluations and compliance reviews.

In that document we took the position as a policy matter that employers could hold in confidence, and we would receive in confidence

copies of the corrective action program. I should point out that we do

not receive as a matter of course either affirmative action programs or

corrective action programs. These are kept by the employer on file

and he must give them to us at such time as we request them. I believe

we did receive some 40,000 odd compliance reviews last year, from

some 260,000 Federal contractors. Our feeling in drafting that order

was that the corrective action program, which includes, information

from an employer as to his past discrimination, and sets forth his

proposed relief for employees who are still feeling the effects of that

discrimination, was something we should receive in confidence from

the employer. That does not mean to say that that is not a disclosable

document. Certainly that is a document which would, I feel, be

discoverable under rule 26 of the Federal rules of civil procedure. If the

court asks us to disclose it, and it is in our possession, we certainly

would disclose to the court. The feeling was, however, that a contractor

should have the opportunity to develop corrective action programs,

and where changes are necessary, that contractor would be able to

deal with his union and try to work out these changes before this

document was released indiscriminately. Thus, during this delicate

period, the employer would not be faced with a document in a court

of law under title 7 which would admit his past discrimination.

Now members of your staff and members of Senator Javits' staff

have discussed this matter with me. They have pointed out quite accurately I think that there are problems with trying to distinguish

between corrective action programs which should be disclosed and

those which should not in the context of order 14. They have pointed

out to me that where one would have a consent decree or settlement

agreement, that would be made public, and that decree or agreement

might include a corrective action program, that this might be contradictory to the thrust of .our regulations.

Being aware of the fact that there are problems with the concept

that we have put into this order, I have determined that we should

publish order 14 in the Federal Register for a period of comment.

Hopefully we will receive comments from members of this committee as

well as members of industry and labor and the public generally, and

we will make such changes in that order as are appropriate based

upon the comments we have received.

I admit that there are problems with it, although I think that the

basic thrust of what we are trying to do is sensible.

The CHAIRMAN. I appreciate that very candid statement.

One other broad question. In the allocation of your legal personnel for various enforcement programs, I wonder if you could give
18

us your attitude and what criteria you would use for the assignment

of attorneys to the various enforcement activities—fair labor standards,

civil rights, all of them.

Mr. KILBERG. It would be a little difficult for me to do that at this

point in time. I really have not given a great deal of thought to that.

I believe all the programs we enforce are important. They include

occupational safety and health, civil rights, fair labor standards,

minimum wage, and overtime laws.

If I am confirmed, and after I take office, I would want to review our

staffing patterns. I would want to see the number of new attorneys

that we may be receiving to handle the increased responsibilities we

will have, under the Longshoremen's Act, under the black lung

legislation, and other legislation which may be coming down the pike.

I will be better able to determine our best allocation of resources at

that point in time.

It is a little premature for me at this point.

The CHAIRMAN. Has some of the legal action under the Occupational

Safety and Health Act fallen through the cracks because of the

Attorney General's involvement? I did not hear fully Senator Javits'

concern in this respect, but he did raise it, and there is a problem here,

is there not?

Mr. KILBERG. Well the Department of Justice does do the litigation

for the Department of Labor under the Occupational Safety and

Health Act. I have not had enough opportunity to work in the OSHA

area to know fully what the problems might be or what problems of

coordination, if any, there are between ourselves and the Department

of Justice.

I can say in my former position as Associate Solicitor for Labor

Relations and Civil Rights, I worked very closely with the Civil

Rights Division in the Department of Justice and we had a very

close cooperative relationship. We coordinated our actions, and I

would hope that we would be able to have this kind of cooperation

with the Department of Justice in the occupational health and safety

area. I have witnessed accidents on construction jobs. I had the

unfortunate experience of seeing a man fall from a 30-foot scaffold that

only had a 1-foot guard railing. I was no farther from him than I am.

from you now, Senator, and that kind of experience leaves an impression on one's mind. I can assure you that I intend to see to it that the

Occupational Safety and Health Act is vigorously enforced to the

fullest extent of the law, and I will work with the Department of

Justice to insure that that act is enforced.

The CHAIRMAN. Well certainly it was our feeling that your office

should be central to the litigation. Section 14 says that the Solicitor

of Labor may appear for and represent the Secretary in any civil

litigation brought under this act, and while all such litigation shall be

subject to the direction and control of the Attorney General, it was

our intention that the Solicitor of Labor and his attorneys would

actually be appearing in court and handling the litigation.

There apparently has been a problem. I will tell you that in our

pension bill we will make it unmistakably clear—as we intended

the OSHA situation to be—that you are to handle the litigation.

Mr. KILBERG. If it is the wisdom of Congress that that is the waythe bill comes out, I can assure you we will handle all responsibilities 
19

The CHAIRMAN. I also mean in the OSHA area too, and I think that was mentioned earlier by Senator Javits.

Mr. KILBERG. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Javits.

Senator JAVITS. Mr. Kilberg, if this responsibility should be vested in your office of handling civil litigation with respect to occupational

safety and health, will you accept it?

Mr. KILBERG. If the Congress should give us that responsibility,

yes.

Senator JAVITS. Or if the executive department should shift that responsibility to you?

Mr. KILBERG. If the responsibility were given to us, we would

accept it, and we would enforce it to the best of our ability.

Senator JAVITS. Do you believe the Solicitor's Office as now orga- nized is capable of handling this responsibility?

Mr. KILBERG. I think we can. Again I have not had the opportunity

to look at staffing problems and related matters. I certainly think that the talent and ability we have in the Solicitor's Office is up to that task and others.

Senator JAVITS, Now I might point out to you that the language respecting the Attorney General, that is language respecting the

Attorney General having direction and control is exactly the same in the Fair Labor Standards Act and yet your Office handles that.

Mr. KILBERG. That is correct.

Senator JAVITS. I feel strongly about it, and I am glad to hear that my Chairman does too, and I just want to be sure that if you do

get it, you can handle it.

The other thing I would like to ask you is this. Would you feel that you should seek whatever professional assistance in the way of advice, counsel, consultation, coordination you can get and give

to Justice—that is the Department of Justice—as entirely feasible

and compatible with you, in that you do not expect to shut your department off in some compartment and say none of anybody's business, we will run it with the Secretary of Labor?

Mr. KILBERG. As I mentioned earlier the experiences I have had in the Department of Labor, particularly with the Civil Rights Division of Department of Justice, have involved very close relation- ships. I have also had occasion to turn to the Department of Justice

for advice and counsel on questions under the Freedom of Information

Act and on other matters which affect government generally. Re- gardless of where litigation responsibility rests, I would expect to work closely and cooperate with fellow attorneys at the Department

of Justice.

Senator JAVITS. Do you know the Attorney General?

Mr. KILBERG. NO; I do not.

Senator JAVITS. Will you make it your business to know him?

Mr. KILBERG. If given the opportunity, yes sir.

Senator JAVITS. I think that is important. I do not say that facetiously. I think it very important in your particular job that you

get the support of Justice and that they get your support. I hope

you will proceed accordingly. I am sure you will.

If there is anything that our committee which has general legislative

oversight can do to help you, let us know, and our Chairman will

undoubtedly put it up.
20

Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Schweiker.

Senator SCHWEIKER. No questions, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you be willing to reply in writing to questions submitted in writing from Senator Kennedy, who is in another

committee at this time?

Mr. KILBERG. Yes; certainly.

[The questions and answers subsequently supplied for the record

follow:]
21

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR

OFFICE OF THE SOLICITOR

WASHINGTON, D.C. mno

t‘ P R 51973

Honorable Harrison Williams

Chairman, Senate Committee

on Labor and Public Welfare

United States Senate

Washington, D. C. 20510

Dear Mr. Chairman;

At my confirmation hearing before your committee this

morning, I received several written questions from

Senator Edward M. Kennedy to which I would like to

respond.

Question 1 

"In 1967, Congress passed the Age in Discrimination

Act. Yet, today, some six years later, there have been

only two suits that have gone to the appellate level

for a final decision. Why has there been so little

litigation? It clearly seems to me that there has been

little enforcement activity?"

Response 

It is my understanding that the Department has been

taking vigorous action to enforce the Age Discrimination

in Employment Act. The figures cited in the question

reflect the length of time it takes for the legal

processes to reach the appellate level, not the interest

of the Department in the program nor the effectiveness

of its enforcement effort.

Since the effective date of the Act, June 12, 1968, the

Department has filed 170 suits to enforce ADEA's nondiscrimination provisions; 66 such suits were filed in

1972 alone. In light of the normal problems attendant

to the start-up of any new statute, as well as the ADEA

requirement that conciliation efforts be undertaken

before legal action is initiated, I believe this is a
22

2

good record: a record which includes notable victories

in cases against Greyhound and Pan American Airways,

and compliance achieved in many cases without resort

to suit.

I can assure you, however, that if confirmed, I will

be committed to upholding all of my statutory responsibilities, including the provision of necessary legal

support for the enforcement of the Age Discrimination

in Employment Act.

Question 2 

"It is my understanding that in F. Y. 1972, there were

only 69 Labor Department positions specifically budgeted

for implementing the Age Discrimination in Aging Act.

Of the 1,000 compliance officers in the Department, only

about 10% or less of their time was spent enforcing

the Act. What plans do you have for enforcing the Act?

What portion of your staff do you believe should be

assigned to this job?"

Response 

The Department has been devoting substantial resources to

the enforcement of the Age Discrimination in Employment

Act. In every investigation conducted by the Department's

Employment Standards Administration, the investigators

make a concerted effort to determine whether there have

been any ADEA violations. In 1972, ESA made 72,000 such

investigations. In addition, ESA conducted approximately

10,000 special compliance contacts, which focus entirely

on age discrimination problems. The budget figures cited

in the question are based upon violations found in an

investigation, not the purpose of an investigation. If,

for example, FLSA violations are found in an ESA investigation, the investigation is credited to FLSA, for accounting

purposes.

Question 3 

"Finally, since you came from the Labor Relations and

Civil Rights Divisions of the Labor Department with the

responsibility for overseeing equal employment provisions,

don't you think it would be desirable in terms of fairness

to include the local, State and Federal governments under

the cover of the Age in Discrimination Act?"
23

3

Response 

The Administration proposed legislation last year to

cover State and local governments under the Age

Discrimination in Employment Act. Although the

Administration has not yet taken a position on this

issue in the 93rd Congress, the matter has been under

active consideration.

Question 4 

"Last week, the full Labor and Public Welfare Committee

reported a pension bill providing that the Labor

Department would handle all civil litigation involving

the enforcement of that Act. That had been our intention,

I might add, following the precedent of the Fair Labor

Standards and the Coal Mine Safety Acts, when we passed

the Occupational Safety and Health Act. I felt that

the expertise that would be developed in the Labor

Department would insure the most effective enforcement

of this most important piece of legislation.

"Part of our problem recently has been the conclusion

that the assumption of the litigation responsibilities

of the Occupational Safety and Health Act by the Justice

Department, which contrary to our intention has weakened

the enforcement of that Act.

"In order to carry out this clear Congressional intent,

would you say the OSHA Division of the Solicitor's Office

is adequately staffed and funded. If not, what additional

staffing and funds would you need?"

Response 

I have not yet had an opportunity to study in detail the

staffing and funding needs of each Division of the

Solicitor's Office. The Department is determined, however, that the Occupational Safety and Health Act be

effectively implemented. I, personally, will spare no

effort to assure effective legal support for the program's

administration.

Sincerely,

William J. Kilberg

Solicitor-Designate
24

The CHAIRMAN. And the other question now which I ask is whether

you will commit yourself to appear before this and other congressional

committees upon reasonable request?

Mr. KILBERG. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Very good, thank you.

Our next nominee this morning is Paul J. Fasser, Jr., nominated

to be an Assistant Secretary of Labor for Labor-Management Relations. Mr. Fasser please.

Senator JAVITS. Senator Schweiker will introduce Mr. Fasser. I just

want to say I interviewed him and am satisfied with his credentials

and qualifications.

Senator SCHWEIKER. Mr. Chairman, I cannot give Mr. Fasser the

the launch my senior colleagues save Mr. Kilberg. Notwithstanding

the high bench mark that my senior colleagues set, I would like to say

that I think that Paul Fasser is exceedingly well qualified for the

position that he has been nominated for, because first of all he has had

20 years of experience with the Steelworkers Union in Pittsburgh, as

administrator of research, arbitration, and contract requirements, and

second, because he has been Deputy Assistant Secretary for Manpower

and Manpower Administrator.

I think with that combination of union administrative experience

and Labor Department service, he has a unique and well qualified

background to bring to this job.

I would like to say too that in the position he has held, I have found

Paul to be one of the most responsive officials of the Labor Department, in terms of his sensitivity in working with Congress and to the

requests that this committee and our office have had in this regard,

and I commend him for that.

To make another point, Senator Javits made the youth of the

other candidate a factor in his analysis. Since I know Mr. Fasser is my

own age, he is obviously too young for the job!

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much, Senator Schweiker.

Is your background from Pennsylvania?

STATEMENT OF PAUL J. FASSER, NOMINATED TO BE AN ASSISTANT

SECRETARY FOR LABOR-MANAGEMENT RELATIONS

Mr. FASSER. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. I am from Pennsylvania.

The CHAIRMAN. Where in Pennsylvania?

Mr. FASSER. I lived in western Pennsylvania for the greater part

of my life. I was raised in Farrell, Pa., where I went to school and I

attended Grove City College for a while. I also attended the University

of Pittsburgh and went off to the New York State School of Industrial

and Labor Relations at Cornell University. I went back to work in

Pittsburgh for the next 20 years until Secretary Hodgson asked me to

come down and serve as his Manpower Administrator.

The CHAIRMAN. Fine. Did you have any statement you wanted to

make?

Mr. FASSER. I do have a statement. First I would like to thank

Senator Schweiker for his kind introduction.

The CHAIRMAN. We are going to include your full biography, along

with a position description at this point in the record.

[The information referred to follows]
25

PAUL J. FASSER, JR., 6725 BARON ROAD, MCLEAN, VA.

Personal.—Born, June 15, 1926; height, 5' 11"; weight, 180; health, excellent;

married, three children; military, honorably discharged U.S. Army 1946.

Education.—B.S. degree from New York State School of Industrial and Labor

Relations of Cornell University (1951). Major—industrial and labor relations.

Also attended Grove City College and the University of Pittsburgh.

Business Experience.—U.S. Department of Labor, Washington, D.C. Deputy Assistant Secretary for Manpower and Manpower Administrator.

October 1970 to Present.—Serve as chief executive officer for the Labor Department's Manpower Administration and its assigned programs. Significant laws for

which I have responsibility include the Manpower Development and Training Act

of 1962, as amended, the Economic Opportunity Act of 1964, as amended, Title IV

of the Social Security Act of 1935, as amended, and the Emergency Employment

Act of 1971. These laws establish a wide array of manpower training and work

experience programs including the Public Employment Program (PEP), the

Neighborhood Youth Corps (NYC), Work Incentive Program (WIN), Job Corps,

Operation Mainstream, Job Opportunities in the Business Sector (JOBS), Public

Service Careers (PSC), JOBS Optional Program (JOP), Apprenticeship Outreach,

National On-the-Job Training (OJT), MDTA Institutional, and the Concentrated

Employment Program (CEP).

Responsibilities also include the W agner-Peyser Act of 1933, which created a

network of State and local employment service offices; Title III of the Social

Security Act of 1935 and the Federal Unemployment Tax Act, which established

the Federal-State Unemployment Insurance System; and the Pv ational Apprenticeship Act of 1937, which established the national apprenticeship program.

During Fiscal Year 1972, I was responsible for the expenditure of $5.1 billion

in Federal funds; the direction of a Federal staff of 4,600 persons located in 10

regional offices and the national headquarters; and the coordination of State

agency staff totaling over 68,000 persons in 2,300 local offices. In addition, I had

oversight responsibility for Manpower Administration contracts directly or indirectly with approximately 11,000 contractors or organizations providing manpower services to over one million enrollees.

Business Experience.—United Steelworkers of America, Assistant Director, Contract Administration Department.

April 1951 to October 1970.—Started with the Steelworkers Union in April of

1951 as an associate in the Research Department, moved to the Arbitration Department in 1963 as a contract and arbitration technician, and was promoted to

Assistant Director of the Contract Administration Department in 1967.

Major responsibilities with the Steelworkers included administrator and manager of the major operating section of the Contract Administration Department

and membership on numerous standing Union—Basic Steel Industry Committees

such as; Testing, Apprenticeship, Contract Language Review and Benefits. These

responsibilities involved dealing with all components of the collective bargaining

agreement including economic issues—wages, pensions, insurance, vacations—and

noneconomic issues—health and safety, seniority, scheduling and training.

I served as Administrator of major programs related to the negotiation of collective bargaining agreements in the Steel, Aluminum, Can and Fabricating Industries. I also functioned as the International Representative on several innovative

programs which include the Kaiser Long Range Sharing Plan, the Alan Wood

Joint Economic Expansion Plan and the Basic Steel Earnings Protection Plan.

As head of the Arbitration Section I served as the Union representative on the

USW—U.S. Steel Board of Arbitration and managed numerous permanent urnpireships among major companies within the Union's jurisdiction.

[Excerpt from U.S. Government Organizational Manual 1972-73]

LABOR-MANAGEMENT SERVICES ADMINISTRATION

The Assistant Secretary for Labor-Management Relations has responsibility

for the Department's labor-management relations activities. He serves as Administrator of the Labor-Management Services Administration.

The Labor-Management Services Administration (LMSA) administers three

laws and major parts of a Presidential Executive order. It also provides assistance

to collective bargaining negotiators and keeps the Secretary posted on development in labor-management disputes of national scope.

LMSA provides technical assistance to State and local governments in matters

concerning public employee labor-relations and pursues research and policy

development in the overall labor-management relations field. •
26

VETERANS REEMPLOYMENT.—Veterans reemployment rights are provided for

in sec. 9 of the Military Selective Service Act of 1967. LMSA helps veterans,

reservists, national guardsmen, and rejectees exercise their reemployment rights,

which include: the job, seniority, status, and rate of pay they would have achieved

had they not been away.

General information is provided to veterans and their preservice employers at

the time the veteran is released from the Armed Forces.

Technical assistance and more specific information is provided to veterans

and employers, aimed at voluntary resolution of reemployment problems. When

such efforts are not successful, cases may be referred to the Department of Justice

for legal action.

PENSION AND WELFARE PLANS.—The Welfare and Pension Plans Disclosure Act

requires administrators of private pension and welfare benefit plans to file copies

of those plans with LMSA, to be available for viewing by the public. This act also

requires that plan administrators report annually on the financial operation of

their plans and the bonding of persons charged with responsibility for plan funds

and assets.

LABOR ORGANIZATIONS.—The Labor Management Reporting and Disclosure

Act calls upon labor organizations to file with LMSA copies of their constitutions

and bylaws and annual financial reports of their transactions for public view.

The act also prescribes rules for election of union officers, administration of

trusteeships by labor organizations, rights of union members, and the handling

of union funds.

Through technical assistance in all these areas LMSA seeks to obtain voluntary

compliance with provisoins of the act. Enforcement through the Federal courts

also is available under the law.

FEDERAL EMPLOYEE ORGANIZATIONS.—Federal labor-management relations are

governed by Executive Order 11491, as amended. The Assistant Secretary for

Labor-Management Relations, under the order, decides appropriate bargaining

units, supervises representation elections, and rules on unfair labor practice

complaints.

As with labor organizations in the private sector, unions of Federal employees

are required to file annual financial reports for disclosure to the public, and to

observe standards of conduct in respect to election of union officers, administration

of trusteeships, handling of money, and the rights of union members.

LMSA's emphasis in Federal labor-management relations matters, as it is with

the laws it administers, is on voluntary compliance through technical assistance.

LABOR—MANAGEMENT RELATIONS SERVICES.—Services offered by LMSA cover

a broad range. They include assistance to employers and unions in meeting longrange, complicated problems caused by major economic and technological change;

reporting on current and potentially critical dispute situations, analyzing data

for immediate use in specific collective bargaining situations; providing staff

assistance to Presidential emergency boards and other and hoc boards and commissions dealing with major disputes such as in the transportation industry;

making sure under sec. 13(c) of the Urban Mass Transportation Act that protective arrangements exist so that the improvement of such systems with Federal

funds shall not woiSen the employment conditions of the workers; and exchanging

information with, and giving technical assistance to, State and local governments

and organizations of their employees to help them achieve sound labor-management relations.

DEVELOPMENT AND RESEARCH.—Functions of LMSA in labor-management

policy development and research includes review of collective bargaining performance and its contribution to meeting economic needs; development of policy for

legislation and Executive orders; study of impact of private policies affecting

collective bargaining; and coordination of labor-management relations research

activities in the Department.

The CHAIRMAN. I see the early Pennsylvania background which

I find important with a little of it in me, too.

Senator SCHWEIKER. He was a steelworker, too. I know the

chairman was a steelworker.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; I was in the Lorain, Ohio, local No. 2, right

after the war.

Mr. FASSER. I worked at the Carnegie-Illinois steel plant in Farrell,

Pa. before I went off to the Army, Cornell 

The CHAIRMAN. A great union.
27

Mr. FASSER. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. We were there under Phil Murray.

Mr. FASSER. I started to work with the union when Phil Murray

was still alive.

The CHAIRMAN. You are way ahead here.

Mr. FASSER. I have a statement which I would like to read. It is

a short one.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I want to thank you

for this opportunity to appear before you to discuss the Labor-Management Services Administration of the U.S. Department of Labor.

One of the primary responsibilities of the Assistant Secretary for

Labor -Management Relations is to foster the development of a

framework within which workers and employers mutually resolve

their differences. The President and Secretary of Labor have stated

that the Federal Government's direct involvement in this area should

be minimal. I fully support this position. Every opportunity must

be provided for the parties to reach their own accommodation.

I am convinced that the quality of leadership being demonstrated

on both sides of the negotiating table will insure the continued success

of collective bargaining in this Nation--and will do so without unduly

impinging upon the interests of the third party in all of these situations—the general public. •

No better example of this leadership exists today than the new

approach undertaken in the steel industry to help eliminate crisis

bargaining. I believe that their new agreement is the direct result of

labor and management recognizing the needs of today and finding a

common ground on which to address those needs.

The Federal Government has a legitimate role in trying to create

a climate in which innovating approaches such as this can be explored

and applied.

Another major responsibility which rests with the Assistant Secretary involves administering Federal legislation and an Executive

order affecting certain activities of labor organizations. These include

the Labor-Management Reporting and Disclosure Act, the Welfare

and Pension Plans Disclosure Act, and Executive Order 11491 providing bargaining rights for Federal employees. The Assistant Secretary is responsible for securing voluntary compliance with these

measures and for invoking the provisions of the law to enforce compliance in those few instances where voluntary efforts fail. The underlying principle in these legislative and Presidential actions is to insure

that the rights of workers remain unimpaired and that the organizations purporting to represent employees actually do so. I am in agreement with this principle and would continue to support Federal

Government efforts in this area if confirmed.

Thank you for allowing me to briefly present my view on this subject

and I would be pleased to answer any questions the chairman or other

members of the committee may have.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Fasser. Before I turn to Senator

Randolph, I wonder if you could give us some feeling of your attitude

with respect to your new position in relation to the Federal Mediation

and Conciliation Service and the National Mediation Board?

Mr. FASSER. Yes, sir, I would like to do that. I have worked with

Bill Usury who has gone off as Director of the Federal Mediation and

Conciliation Service. We established not only a good working relation-
28

ship but also a close personal relationship. I expect that my activities in the Department of Labor, if I am confirmed to this job, will complement Bill's activities and we could approach the problems that the nation faces in regard to labor and management relations as pretty much of a team. We have already talked a great deal about that, and

I think it is going to be very helpful that we do have this good working relationship so that we take measure of the problems and do something

to effectuate reasonable resolutions of the problems. The same would be

true with Dave Stowe, National Mediation Board. I expect that same kind of relationship will exist. I will do everything in my power to foster that relationship.

The CHAIRMAN. What is your situation now? Have you been moved into acting at all in the area of the new responsibility?

Mr. FASSER. No, sir, I am still Deputy Assistant Secretary of Labor

for Manpower and Manpower Administrator. I am more or less transiting out of that job, but I am still functioning with signature authority there. I have no signature authority in LMSA until I am confirmed

and sworn in. We do have a minor problem because Bill Usury has

been confirmed in the other job and has been sworn in and signature

authority is still up in the air for the interim period. We will, of course,

do everything that we can to accommodate the delegation of that

authority, and I am attempting to wear both hats at this time in

order to take care of the day-to-day crisis things, although I do not

believe in knee jerk management nor management by crisis. Actually

for the near term that is the only thing we can do until there is a COD--

firmation in this job.

The CHAIRMAN. The new hat rests a little bit uneasily, but it is on

your head, is that right?

Mr. FASSER. Yes; if there are any gross mistakes made in the next

few days in that area,I will be responsible for them.

The CHAIRMAN. On the contrary, could you not also be credited

with significant accomplishments, by getting that PATH situation

straightened out?

Mr. FASSER. Yes; inasmuch as there are only 24 hours in a day, and

I am not complaining about that, I have tried to keep up on the

PATH situation, and am aware of it. I know of the history and I

know what has happened and at the appropriate time which should

be in the near future there ought to be some involvement on the part

of the Labor- Department, appropriate involvement. I do understand

the PATH situation, and I can say insofar as one can say, I am on

top of it.

The CHAIRMAN. Well now I am glad to hear that. I tell you the last

editorial I read was yesterday, the New York Daily News, said: "Here

we go again. Congress has not forbidden that strike."

We are the sole agency of responsibility. The Executive does not

share any longer, because they have affirmatively said absolutely no

antistrike legislation. We took the rap. Now I will be able to tell my

friends at the Daily News that you are on top of the situation.

Mr. FASSER. That is probably the first gross mistake I have made.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Randolph.

Senator RANDOLPH. Thank you Mr. Chairman. Well, I notice that

the dossier says he is in excellent health, and so he is going to be O.K.

in this job, naturally. Seriously, Mr. Fasser, I know of your work and

friends of mine in West Virginia, like Miles Stanley, president of West
29

Virginia AFL—CIO, has talked to me about his feelings of your capacity

in certain efforts that you will have direct responsibility for in this

position. You have had some of those responsibilities, of course, as

Manpower Administrator. You have understood, of course, the programs that have to do with emergency employment under our act.

Do you think that program has been successful, and if it has been

successful, why is the administration proposing to scuttle the program

to bring about its termination?

Mr. FASSER. Senator, I am very much familiar with the Emergency

Employment Act. I was Manpower Administrator when Congress

enacted the Emergency Employment Act. I helped to implement the

act, getting the regulations out and getting the money out in a hurry.

The Emergency Employment Act was enacted at the time when

there was a high—very high rate of unemployment in the United

States and that was over 6 percent. The money that was put out 

Senator RANDOLPH. What is the unemployment rate now?

Mr. FASSER. Unemployment rate as of the last report by the

Bureau of Labor Statistics was 5.1 percent, Senator. There will be a

new figure out tomorrow. The Bureau of Labor Statistics will report

on Friday. I do not know what that new number will be. There seems

to be a decline in the rate of unemployment, the absolute numbers of

people unemployed appears to be declining. Early indicators of

course seem to show that this is going to continue for a period. We can

see some of that. We hear good reports of production out of the steel

industry and any time you hear the steel managers complaining about

not being able to keep up with shipments, you know that things are

improving.

I coordinate my feelings about the economy often with the economy

of the bellwether steel industry, and I watch that, and it appears that

the rate of the absolute numbers of unemployed is going to continue

to decline. Certainly I hope so.

The Emergency Employment Act was enacted by Congress for a

2-year period. It will expire on June 30, 1973. The administration is

not proposing that the act be amended or extended. There are a

number of things involved. Even though we probably set some kind of

historical record to get that act in place, to get people on jobs, and to

get the money out to the cities and the governors and the county

commissioners, there was still some delay. The act was passed in

fiscal year 1972 and there was some lag in getting all of the money out;

therefore, all the money was not spent on the front end of the program.

As the hiring in the program proceeded and grew, some money was

pushed toward the end of the program. We have made a determination in phasing out the program that there should be no aburpt cutoff

on June 30, 1973. It would be patently unfair to try to spend all the

money appropriated under the Emergency Employment Act before

June 30, 1973, because, bang, the money would be shut off at that

time and all of the people in the program would be thrown out on the

street.

Senator RANDOLPH. How many persons would be involved in the

termination if it were abruptly ended?

Mr. FASSER. We are running at the rate of about 140,000.

Senator RANDOLPH. In how many categories roughly?

Mr. FASSER. There are 640 some odd program agents—the money

is out there for them to hire in various categories. We decided that we
30

would not have this abrupt layoff so we would take what money was

left and we would phase out the program over a period of time. This

period of time could extend to the end of fiscal year 1974 conceivably.

What we would like to see happen is for the program agents to maintain their current strength until August and then start to phase out.

This gives the program agents an opportunity to provide for a transition from subsidized employment to nonsubsidized employment,

which was really a function of this bill.

Obviously if you had the same people on public employment service jobs all the time, you would never have any room to bring other

people on. So we have to sort of keep it going 

Senator RANDOLPH. In administering the program, what estimate

would you have for the number of employees that are under civil

service?

Mr. FASSER. I would gather that—I would imagine that most of

them are under some kind of State civil service arrangement when

they are hired. They are hired on as employees and they are paid the

salary and receive the benefits of that particular job for that particular

locality and they would fall within the purview of the civil service.

Senator RANDOLPH. What about the Federal civil service status of

administrative people, how many involved?

Mr. FASSER. In the Manpower Administration?

Senator RANDOLPH. Yes.

Mr. FASSER. There are some 340, 350 manpower people that work

on this program, some 70 of them are in national offices and the rest

are out in the field.

Senator RANDOLPH. The reason I asked that, Mr. Chairman, I will

ask unanimous consent to include at the appropriate place in our

colloquy a letter that I wrote to the Chairman of the U.S. Civil Service

Commission which bears upon this subject of the employment at the

Federal level with civil service status on the agencies that are being

dismantled or phased out, and I think it will serve a good purpose at

least to have it there and if I can have the reply from the Civil Service

Commission soon enough, I will put both in the printed record; but

if not, the letter I have sent, and that went forward a few days ago,

and I would like this at a point in the record which seems to be best.

The CHAIRMAN. It will be included in the record at this point.

[Information referred to follows]
31

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COMMITTEE ON

POST OFFICE AND CIVIL SERVICE

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20510

i

March 27, 1973

Honorable Robert E. Hampton

Chairman

Civil Service Commission

1900 E Street NW.

Washington, D.C. 20415

Dear Mr. Chairman:

This communication is to express my genuine concern with regard

to the terminations and reductions in grade of civil service

employees who presently serve in agencies where programs are

being totally eliminated or modified.

While strongly opposing the arbitrary actions under which Federal

programs are being dismantled, I recognize that these actions

are taking place and it is my purpose to insure that the legal

rights of civil service employees who have status and retention

references are protected.

I am advised that the pending reorganizations and reductions in

force will displace substantial numbers of Federal employees from

positions at various levels and that there is no coordinated effort

to place these people in similar jobs in other agencies of Government. It is also reported that the saved pay provisions of

5 USC 5337 will not be allowed for these employees.

p

I shall appreciate knowing what steps the Civil Service Commission

is taking to monitor agency personnel actions and to protect the

rights of Federal employees, including what efforts have been made

to fully inform all employees of their rights relative to other

job vacancies and positions in their agencies and/or departments

and throughout departments and agencies of the Executive Branch.
32

It is my understanding that in previous years when reductions-inforce were extensive throughout the Federal Government, the

Civil Service Commission established a central referral service

for employees whose jobs were abolished and placed hiring restrictions on all agencies until such employees were placed in

jobs in other agencies and departments. In view of the reductions

at the Economic Development Administration and the Office of

Economic Opportunity, and the rumored reductions to be forthcoming

at the Departments of Housing and Urban Development and Health,

Education and Welfare, I strongly urge the Commission to undertake

a comprehensive program to assnre employment rights of all those

persons affected.

Your prompt attention and detailed response to this request will

be appreciated.

Truly,

Jennings Randolph, Chairman

Subcommittee on Civil Service

Policies and Practices
33

Senator RANDOLPH. Thank you very much. I noted the letter was mentioned in the Washington Post Federal Diary and was referred to,

I believe, day before yesterday. That is why I have questioned Mr.

Fasser about not so much the State situation but the Federal situation,

and I believe you indicate some 300-plus people.

Mr. FASSER. Yes, sir. I did indicate that there are that number—

there is that number of man-years allocated to the program. Now the people that are involved in operating the Emergency Employment

Act program in the regions are people that can do other things too.

So if indeed there is going to be a reduction in the number of manpower employees over the next fiscal year, the reduction will not neces- sarily mean all Emergency Employment Act people who are working

on that particular program are going to be out the window. The reduction hopefully will be accomplished through attrition and it will not affect any individual categorical program type. Even though

some might be working on EEA, and EEA is not extended, then there will be other things for that individual professional to do.

Senator RANDOLPH. That was one purpose of my letter to, not caution so much, as to call attention to the Commissioner of the problem that we were going to have, as not only in this program, Mr.

Fasser, but many, many programs are being either phased out or

eliminated. So it is a particular problem to those people who have certain rights under the civil service status. That is why I mentioned

it.

Now the final question, Mr. Chairman, to Mr. Fasser, and it would

be this: I think you realize that middle-aged and older workers have

not been adequately brought into the manpower training program.

Now I am not sure you agree, but I think unemployment among such

persons has been dramatically rising in the last few years, regardless of

the employment figures that will come out tomorrow or unemployment figures, as they may be. And so as we think of these people, we

know that more than any other group in our country, they lose when

unemployment raises its ugly image, and in my opinion we must be

very careful always to see that something positive is done for those

persons in the middle age and older brackets where they can do jobs

that their training and their capability permits them to carry on

those jobs. Do you have any suggestions, Mr. Fasser, in this area?

Mr. FASSER. Well, sir, I do agree that one of the ways of assisting

the older worker who is caught up in a plant shutdown or whose skills

become obsolete, is to provide some kind of facility for him to learn a

new skill or be temporarily assisted until he can find another situation.

I think there are efforts currently going on, and certainly we do have a,

number of programs directed to this very end in the manpower situation, programs that can readily be taken up by the mayor, the

county commissioner or the Governors. They can readily take up

these programs if that happens to be the way they set out their priority

in their particular areas. I think that the effort along the lines of helping the older worker and the older worker being 45 years or more, I

think that they should be continued and I have confidence that they

will be continued, sir.

Senator RANDOLPH. That is reassuring. Mr. Chairman, I want to

indicate as I did earlier that when someone of the stature and understanding of manpower programs has as Mr. Stanley in our State

discusses with me what he believes to be the plus qualifications of the
34

nominee, I count them as very strong factors in my determination of

the nominees who come before us, in this particular case, Mr. Fasser.

So I will be delighted, Mr. Chairman, to join hopefully in, and I

trust Senator Schweiker would agree, the unanimity of the votes for

Mr. Fasser, if that seems to be the feeling of the committee, and I hope

we could expedite that action.

The CHAIRMAN. We have an executive committee meeting of the

full committee this afternoon. I hope that we will be able to take this

up at that time.

Senator SCHWEIKER. Mr. Chairman, having worked with Paul over

the years, I have no questions at this time.

The CHAIRMAN. Just a final question. Will you be willing to appear

at any time we make reasonable requests, this committee or other

committees of Congress?

Mr. FASSER. Yes, sir. I will, and at any time I will meet with you

or any other members of the committee or your staff. I have done

that as Manpower Administrator and I would continue to do that.

The CHAIRMAN. I have an unanswered letter that I addressed to

the Secretary of Labor. I wonder if you would check it out. It dealt

with middle aged and older workers problems and suggested a task force

look into and deal with this. I wonder if you would get back to the

shop and if you will see where my letter is.

Mr. FASSER. Yes, sir. Even before I get back there, Senator, we

will be looking for that letter.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

Mr. FASSER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. The meeting is adjourned.

(Whereupon at 11:37 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.)

0