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[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                    FIELD HEARING ON THE SUCCESS OF
                   PRO-GROWTH, PRO-WORKER TAX POLICY
                        IN THE AMERICAN MIDWEST

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE
                               
                      COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                            AUGUST 16, 2024

                               __________

                          Serial No. 118-FC31

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on Ways and Means
         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
56-529                       WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

                      COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS

                    JASON SMITH, Missouri, Chairman
                    
VERN BUCHANAN, Florida               RICHARD E. NEAL, Massachusetts
ADRIAN SMITH, Nebraska               LLOYD DOGGETT, Texas
MIKE KELLY, Pennsylvania             MIKE THOMPSON, California
DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona            JOHN B. LARSON, Connecticut
DARIN LaHOOD, Illinois               EARL BLUMENAUER, Oregon
BRAD WENSTRUP, Ohio                  BILL PASCRELL, Jr., New Jersey
JODEY ARRINGTON, Texas               DANNY DAVIS, Illinois
DREW FERGUSON, Georgia               LINDA SANCHEZ, California
RON ESTES, Kansas                    TERRI SEWELL, Alabama
LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania          SUZAN DelBENE, Washington
KEVIN HERN, Oklahoma                 JUDY CHU, California
CAROL MILLER, West Virginia          GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin
GREG MURPHY, North Carolina          DAN KILDEE, Michigan
DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee             DON BEYER, Virginia
BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania      DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
GREG STEUBE, Florida                 BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York             JIMMY PANETTA, California
MICHELLE FISCHBACH, Minnesota        JIMMY GOMEZ, California
BLAKE MOORE, Utah
MICHELLE STEEL, California
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
MIKE CAREY, Ohio

                       Mark Roman, Staff Director
                 Brandon Casey, Minority Chief Counsel
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Jason Smith, Missouri, Chairman.............................     1
Advisory of August 16, 2023 announcing the hearing...............     V

                               WITNESSES

Karen Dewalt, Vice President, Global Tax, The Home Depot.........     6
Sarah Curry, Mother, Glenwood, Iowa, and Research Director, 
  Iowans for Tax Relief Foundation...............................    13
Jolene Riessen, Farmer, Ida Grove, Iowa, and President, Iowa Corn    18
Steve Sukup, President and CEO, Sukup Manufacturing Co...........    22
Lana Pol, Owner and President, Geetings, Inc.....................    31

                    LOCAL SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

Local Submissions................................................   129

                   PUBLIC SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

Public Submissions...............................................   143

[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

 
                       THE SUCCESS OF PRO-GROWTH
                        PRO-WORKER TAX POLICY
                        IN THE AMERICAN MIDWEST

                              ----------                              

                        FRIDAY, AUGUST 16, 2024

                          House of Representatives,
                               Committee on Ways and Means,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:01 a.m., Central, 
Oman Family Youth Inn, Logan Avenue, Iowa State Fairgrounds, 
Des Moines, Iowa, Hon. Jason Smith [chairman of the committee] 
presiding.
    Chairman SMITH. The committee will come to order.
    Without objection, the gentlewoman from Iowa, Mrs. Hinson, 
the gentlewoman from Iowa, Dr. Miller-Meeks, and the gentleman 
from Iowa, Mr. Nunn, are authorized to participate in the 
hearing and ask questions today.
    Good morning, and welcome to everyone who is joining us 
today at the Iowa State Fair.
    I want to thank my good friend, Randy Feenstra, for hosting 
us in his home State. Randy is a true champion for rural 
America and small towns because it is where he is from. I can 
tell you that when he is in D.C., he always brings Iowa with 
him. It is not Missouri, but it is Iowa, so----
    Mr. FEENSTRA. A little better.
    Chairman SMITH. We also have the entire Iowa House 
delegation joining us today. Few delegations are as good as the 
one up here about banding together to fight for their home 
state and for their communities.
    I do want to take a minute just to express my 
disappointment that not one of our Democrat colleagues have 
joined us here today on the committee. This is our second field 
hearing in a row where none have made the effort to join us in 
conducting our committee business outside the marble halls of 
Washington, D.C.
    We are here to sit down and have a conversation with 
working people about the need to protect Americans from a $4.6 
trillion in tax hikes that will happen the end of next year. 
You would think that would merit at least one Democrat showing 
up to listen. With proper notice, multiple weeks, there are 
still empty chairs.
    The State Fair couldn't be more different than the halls of 
Congress, and that is exactly why we are here, to listen to 
regular people, people who run a small business, work their 
farm, or folks just trying to make ends meet for their 
families.
    Part of the problem is every dollar you earn is taxed over 
and over again. Just think about all the taxes you pay every 
day. You pay property tax on your house. You pay taxes on the 
land you own and work. Your car and the gas to fill it up to 
get to your job or to use on your farm are taxed. Taxes on your 
employer means a smaller paycheck for you. That paycheck is 
taxed by Washington, and then taxed again buying groceries and 
other basics for your family. Once you stop working, your 
retirement is taxed. Even after death, Uncle Sam still wants 
his cut, and he wants your grieving family members to pay it.
    Republicans look at working families and want to make it 
easier to help them get ahead. And we know that a smaller 
government, less regulations, and less taxation is the way to 
do that.
    Under President Trump, we passed a tax cut that benefited 
the working class. After that tax cut, people making less than 
$100,000 got, on average, a 16 percent cut in their tax bill to 
the government, while the top one percent actually saw their 
share of taxes go up. Workers in the bottom 10 percent saw 50 
percent faster wage growth than people in the highest 10 
percent. When working families prosper, America prospers.
    Five million jobs were created after enactment of the Trump 
tax cuts. Investment rose over 20 percent. We ended the 
decades' long trend of American businesses moving their 
headquarters and jobs overseas.
    The lesson we should take from the Trump tax cuts is that 
when we put working families first, help small businesses 
succeed, and give Americans the tools to outcompete China, 
America will win.
    Democrats in Washington, including Vice President Harris, 
they don't see it that way. They look at working families, and 
they see an ATM to fund their big government spending. That is 
why President Biden and Vice President Harris have both 
separately promised to let these beneficial tax cuts expire in 
order to raise taxes on all Americans, every single American.
    Vice President Harris has actually gone so far to call it a 
day one priority to repeal the Trump tax cuts in their 
entirety. Letting the Trump tax cuts expire would mean the 
average family of four earning $75,000 or less a year would 
face a $1,500 tax increase. That means smaller paychecks for 
families already struggling to make ends meet because of 
inflation that has gone up more than 20.3 percent in the last 
3.5 years.
    The Child Tax Credit would be slashed in half. The 
guaranteed deduction would be cut in half. The death tax 
exemption would also be slashed in half, especially hurting 
farmers in states like Iowa and Missouri. Small and family run 
businesses, like so many farms are, would see their tax burden 
climb to 43.4 percent, making it harder to compete against 
larger corporations paying a 21 percent tax rate.
    So other than tax increases, what exactly are the tax 
priorities of the other side? As I said, none of my Democrat 
colleagues are here to answer that question. But if they were, 
my guess is they would be celebrating that today, that this 
very day actually marks the 2-year anniversary of the so-called 
Inflation Reduction Act becoming law. Democrats stuffed that 
bill with $650 billion in special interest tax breaks for the 
wealthy, their donors, big banks, billion-dollar companies, and 
China. Despite its name, the Inflation Reduction Act has done 
nothing to lower prices from where they were 2 years ago. It 
would be better named the Inflation Expansion Act.
    None of this would have happened without Vice President 
Harris' tie-breaking vote in the Senate. As the tie-breaking 
vote, she helped usher through a $10 trillion increase in 
government spending in just their first two years in office. 
This is the Democrats' plan for America, higher prices and 
higher taxes for the little guy and welfare for the wealthy and 
well-connected.
    That is why Republicans on this committee have formed tax 
teams and are traveling all over the country to build on the 
successful Trump tax cuts and stop the $7 trillion Biden-Harris 
tax hike. We have held over 60 meetings so far, with many more 
on the way. And just yesterday, the Rural America Tax Team led 
by Chairman Smith traveled through Nebraska and western Iowa to 
hear how the Tax Code can help farmers and small towns.
    I want to thank the witnesses for all being here today and 
sharing how the Trump tax cuts made a difference for you and 
your community.
    We also want to hear from everyone in attendance. There 
will be clipboards that our teams will pass out throughout the 
process we ask that you submit for the record. We will enter 
those into the official House record of the hearing and take 
those back with us to Washington as we consider how to build on 
the successes of the prior tax cuts.
    I am pleased to recognize our generous host, our good 
friend, Congressman Feenstra, for 1 minute.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Thank you, Chairman Smith.
    I want to thank my colleagues for coming. We have taken 
Congress out of D.C. and brought it to the breadbasket of the 
world, to the Midwest, to Iowa, and I want to thank you for 
being here.
    I want to thank our witnesses for coming today. I want to 
thank Karen, Sarah, Jolene, Steve, and Lana for taking the time 
to answer the questions that we might have.
    This is so important for us as a state, for the Midwest. 
You think about what we have, from cattle to hogs, to dairy to 
eggs, to turkeys, to biofuels, to corn and soybeans. This is so 
important. This is our way of life that we are going to talk 
about today. But our way of life is affected when the tax cuts 
that happened in 2017 go away.
    I think of our families, where we doubled the standard 
deduction in 2017. We doubled the Child Tax Credit for our 
families. I think of the small businesses and agricultural 
community that does the 199A, pass-through credit, got a 20 
percent discount. They got interest expensing reduced, got 179 
depreciation increased. It goes on and on. But all these things 
go away and all have a dramatic affect for our families, for 
our small businesses, for our main streets. And when they are 
affected, our schools are affected, our hospitals are affected, 
and so many other things. That is why it is so important that 
we have this discussion today.
    And, finally, I just want to say, I ushered through in 
2018, when the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was passed, I ushered it 
through the Iowa Senate where we did the largest tax cut at 
that time in Iowa history. Well, I will say this: I did it in 
the Iowa Senate, being chair of the Ways and Means, and I will 
come through again for each Iowan to make sure that these tax 
cuts continue to be cut as we move forward.
    Thank you so much, Chairman.
    Thanks, everyone, for being here.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    I am pleased to recognize the gentlewoman from Iowa, Mrs. 
Hinson.
    Mrs. HINSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for coming 
back to the State Fair, repeat customer. This is the second 
year in the row Mr. Chairman has been here.
    Thank you to our witnesses and to everyone in the audience 
for coming out to talk about these important issues that affect 
our businesses here, our farmers, our producers, and working 
families. We are going to highlight a lot of those really 
important issues today.
    Mr. Chairman, I was struck by what you said about the 
agenda coming out of the Harris administration, Harris-Biden 
administration, and they will raise your taxes. I serve on the 
House Appropriations Committee, so thank you for letting me sit 
in as a guest today. But our committee is responsible for, 
hopefully, judiciously spending your tax dollars.
    I think there is a philosophical difference happening right 
now in Washington, D.C. We believe that that is your money, not 
the government's money. But our ranking member on that 
committee said just a few months ago in our markups this year, 
we do not have a spending problem; we have a revenue problem. 
That to me is code for they want to raise your taxes and they 
are addicted to spending your money.
    So Democrats, including Vice President Harris, have 
promised to roll back these important tax cuts that Randy was 
just talking about, calling for a repeal of stepped-up basis 
and expiration of the 199A small business deduction. These are 
policies that so many multigenerational small family farms and 
businesses rely on every single day. And these are a critical 
tool to support all of our economies, but especially our rural 
economy here in Iowa.
    So we need to be competitive. We need to be competitive 
with our adversaries like the Chinese Communist Party. And I 
look forward to having the discussion today with our witnesses 
and all of you and my fellow colleagues from all over the 
country about how we can make sure we are returning that money, 
your money, back to you.
    And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    I am pleased to recognize the gentleman from Iowa, Mr. 
Nunn.
    Mr. NUNN. Well, Chairman Smith, thank you so much for being 
here in the heart of the heartland. You know, I think we need 
more of these hearings outside of the beltway and right in the 
corn belt, because this is where you are going to hear not 
from, you know, politicians and lobbyists but from real 
practitioners and real leaders.
    I am thrilled with the lineup that we have today, and I am 
grateful for members across the country on your Ways and Means 
Committee taking time to come out here and learn how it impacts 
your district, then learn how it impacts really the middle of 
America and the jobs and the families and the lives that are 
impacted directly by this.
    I am proud that on day one as a freshman on this panel, I 
went against the establishment to make sure that we fought for 
key taxes that impact our State. Working with this team here, 
we held together to make sure that biofuels were part of 
America's energy solution and our national security solution. 
With that, we were able to achieve it, and with your help, Mr. 
Chairman, thank you for hearing us out on this.
    I am also very proud, you know, as a dad of six, with two 
foster kids here that are now adopted, that we have made a 
priority of the Child Tax Credit. It helps every family, it 
grows the economy, and it is important for our future here as 
families.
    And I am also privileged to help lead the HEART Act to help 
families who are decimated by natural disasters like those that 
happened right here in Greenfield, Iowa, where nearly a third 
of the town was destroyed by severe storms and tornadoes.
    The 2017 tax credit has been a critical lifeline for all 
Americans, but particularly those right here in Iowa, with the 
average Iowa family of four seeing a 22 percent tax cut, 
because of your good work. If these are allowed to expire 
through inaction or false promises, Iowans will see a 22 
percent increase in their overall taxes at a time when no Iowa 
family can afford it.
    Because of the leadership that has happened both on this 
committee and I would say with your Iowa delegation, we have 
been part of the team that has cut Iowa taxes three times, the 
largest tax cuts in Iowa history. We have a proven example of 
how this works to grow the economy, to help all families, and 
as my colleagues highlighted here, to make sure that we pay off 
our debt while being successful for the future.
    Because of these tax cuts, Iowans have more money in their 
pockets and they invest them right in the communities that 
matter, spending on their families and their communities and to 
grow our local economy.
    So, Mr. Chairman, thank you for doing this, and thank you 
for the opportunity to join you.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you, sir.
    I will now introduce our witnesses for today.
    The first one is Karen Dewalt, who is the vice president 
for Global Tax at Home Depot. We have Sarah Curry, who is a 
mother of three from Glenwood, Iowa, and serves as the research 
director at the Iowans for Tax Relief Foundation. We have 
Jolene Riessen, who is a farmer from Ida Grove, Iowa, and 
serves as the president of Iowa Corn. We have Steve Sukup, who 
is the president and CEO of Sukup Manufacturing Company, a 
family-owned grain storage and drying manufacturer based in 
Sheffield, Iowa. And we have Lana Pol, who is the owner and 
president of Geetings, a small trucking company based in Pella, 
Iowa.
    Thank you all for joining us today. Your written statements 
will be made part of the hearing record, and you each have 5 
minutes to deliver remarks.
    We will start with you, Mrs. Dewalt. You may begin.

STATEMENT OF KAREN DEWALT, VICE PRESIDENT, GLOBAL TAX, THE HOME 
                             DEPOT

    Mrs. DEWALT. Thank you, Chairman Smith.
    Members of the Ways and Means Committee and members of the 
Iowa delegation, thank you for the opportunity to testify on 
behalf of The Home Depot on why it is important to keep a 
competitive corporate tax rate. As the largest home improvement 
retailer, The Home Depot is uniquely in tune with how a 
competitive corporate tax rate is essential to staying in 
business in the United States.
    The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, TCJA, which reduced the 
corporate tax rate to 21 percent, has been necessary in 
enabling American companies like ours to create jobs, invest 
domestically, and offer low prices on products for Iowans and 
all consumers. I am here today to share just how much The Home 
Depot invests in our great country.
    In the U.S., we operate over 2,000 stores and employ over 
400,000 associates. Every Home Depot job supports more than 
four additional jobs across the U.S., which is more than twice 
the retail average. In Iowa alone, we support more than 7,000 
jobs.
    In 2023, Home Depot paid $5 billion in corporate income 
taxes, which is approximately 1 percent of all Federal income 
taxes collected in the United States. No one can say that we 
don't pay our fair share in taxes.
    Since the enactment of TCJA, we have undertaken several 
initiatives that demonstrate the positive impact of a lower tax 
rate.
    First, expansion and employment. We have invested $1.2 
billion in our supply chain since 2017, establishing over 100 
warehouse facilities. This has created more than 18,000 jobs in 
the U.S., improved our operational efficiency, and expanded our 
ability to deliver large, bulky merchandise like lumber, 
insulation, and roofing to better serve our pro customers.
    Second, investment in our workforce. The Home Depot 
invested approximately $1 billion in frontline associate wages 
in 2021 and an additional $1 billion annualized wage investment 
last year, ensuring our employees are compensated fairly and 
competitively. This benefits our associates and contributes to 
local economies through increased spending power.
    Additionally, our store managers see the benefit of our 
wage investments in the lives of our associates. Our West Des 
Moines store manager told the story of one of his associates, a 
local Iowan whose life has changed from the Home Depot's 
investment in wage. She has gone from working two jobs to make 
ends meet to joining The Home Depot, growing her career, now as 
a department supervisor, and just moved in to a new apartment 
with her son.
    Finally, we have invested significantly in technology to 
create an interconnected retail experience and help our 
associates provide better customer service.
    Now we are embarking on our next growth chapter, planning 
to open 80 new stores over the next five years, more than a 
dozen of which have already opened.
    These examples show that when we were given a lower rate 
through TCJA, we aggressively invested it back into our 
business and people. Any increase in the corporate rate will 
decrease the capital that we have to invest in our associates, 
stores, infrastructure, and capabilities, and will threaten to 
make us less competitive. Our investments in local communities 
through job creation, small business support, and giving back 
help stimulate local economies and improve quality of life.
    For example, we have over 80 small businesses in Iowa and 
Missouri that deliver supplies to our stores. These suppliers 
sold more than $140 million worth of product to The Home Depot 
in 2023.
    In addition, Home Depot is committed to supporting 
communities with natural disaster preparedness, short-term 
response and long-term recovery, which makes a real difference 
when the need arises. In 2023, The Home Depot Foundation 
committed more than $8 million for disaster preparedness, 
response, and long-term recoveries in impacted communities from 
natural disasters. And this May, the Foundation committed up to 
$300,000 to harder-to-reach communities, including those in 
Iowa impacted by tornadoes and severe flooding. This is an 
invaluable impact of our footprint with associates in every 
state in the U.S. ready and able to serve our communities.
    In conclusion, maintaining a competitive corporate tax rate 
of 21 percent is essential for the continued growth and success 
of U.S.-based companies like The Home Depot. It enables us to 
invest in our business, create jobs, and provide value to 
American consumers while supporting the broader economy.
    Our stores don't just sell products. They empower 
homeowners to renovate and maintain their homes at a reasonable 
cost, and they enable small to mid-size contractors to grow 
their businesses. We urge policymakers to consider the positive 
impact of the current tax rate on businesses, communities, and 
the nation's economic health.
    Thank you.
    [The statement of Mrs. Dewalt follows:]
   [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Mrs. Curry, you are recognized.

STATEMENT OF SARAH CURRY, MOTHER, GLENWOOD, IOWA, AND RESEARCH 
           DIRECTOR, IOWANS FOR TAX RELIEF FOUNDATION

    Mrs. CURRY. Thank you, Chairman Smith and members of the 
committee, for giving me the opportunity to comment here today 
on how the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act has impacted me and my family.
    My name is Sarah Curry. I am a wife and a mother to my 
three boys, Phillip, who is six, Isaac, who is four, and 
Benjamin, who is two.
    My family lives in rural southwest Iowa on approximately 10 
acres. You have to drive down about 3 miles of a gravel road to 
get to my home. My husband works as a radiation oncology nurse 
at the nearby hospital, and I am a research director for a 
nonprofit here in Des Moines.
    With three boys and two working parents, our family 
benefited immediately from many of the policies included in the 
TCJA. At the top of the list is the expansion of the Child Tax 
Credit. For my sons, keeping more of our earnings helped us 
with the needs that all parents have for babies and toddlers. 
However, the tax credit has been especially significant for my 
family when Isaac arrived, because he was diagnosed with autism 
spectrum disorder. The cost of Isaac's medical appointments and 
therapists is a large financial burden on my family, so we 
redirect every dollar that otherwise would go to taxes to his 
therapies.
    Another benefit my family has appreciated is the increased 
standard deduction. Expanding the standard deduction and 
limiting major itemized deductions simplified our tax filing 
process, and it has helped us as a family make decisions based 
on our lives rather than the tax rules.
    A third provision of the TCJA that helped my family is the 
change in the marginal tax rates. Over the years, my husband 
and I have worked hard, earning additional degrees, 
certifications, and receiving promotions to grow in our 
careers, and as a result, our taxable income has increased. 
Within the TCJA we saw immediate savings. If these reduced 
marginal tax rates were to sunset, our family would see an 
immediate tax increase, and that would directly impact our 
family budget and the resources we have for our children.
    That is the personal side of my testimony. But given my 
background in public finance, I also want to give you my 
professional perspective on the impact TCJA will have on Iowa 
families.
    Iowa's tax structure draws upon the Federal Code as a 
starting point for calculating our state income taxes, and so 
the TCJA has ramifications for us on that side as well. Our 
state once had nine income tax brackets with a top rate of 8.98 
percent, but starting next year, we will have a flat tax and a 
rate of 3.8 percent. State-level policymakers have worked to 
reduce the tax burdens on Iowans, but a sunset of the TCJA 
would erode some of those tax savings.
    In 2018, state lawmakers conformed our state tax policy to 
many of the TCJA provisions, so a sunset of the Federal tax 
policies will present a problem. Iowa will have to figure out 
how to maintain a less complex tax system for Iowans that does 
not result in a tax increase while still conforming to federal 
tax policy.
    As a policy expert and, more importantly, as a mom, I can 
testify that the increased tax liability would hurt my family 
and many others, both at the federal and state level. My 
family's tax burden directly affects the amount of income my 
husband and I can spend on our three young children and the 
pressure on us to spend time away from them working. Having a 
child with special needs makes us especially sensitive.
    As Iowans, we feel like lawmakers in our state have worked 
hard for us to keep more of our income, by lowering the top 
rates and simplifying our tax structure. As an American, I ask 
you to look to Iowa and the other states that have enacted 
similar reforms in response to the request of families across 
America for lower taxes.
    Thank you for your time and the consideration of my 
testimony today.
    [The statement of Mrs. Curry follows:]
    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Ms. Riessen, you are now recognized.

   STATEMENT OF JOLENE RIESSEN, FARMER, IDA GROVE, IOWA, AND 
                      PRESIDENT, IOWA CORN

    Ms. RIESSEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to Iowa. 
I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today and to 
commend you for holding this important hearing on tax 
implications that impact family farms across Iowa and the rest 
of the United States.
    My name is Jolene Riessen. I am a farmer and current 
president of the Iowa Corn Growers Association that has a 
membership of over 7,500 farmers and agribusiness associates. 
My organization takes its direction from our grassroots 
memberships, and by allowing me to speak today, you will be 
hearing their concerns through me, in addition to my own 
personal experiences for my crop and cattle operation in 
northwest Iowa.
    As a farmer, we are at a critical juncture. Currently, 
commodity prices will not cover the cost of production, let 
alone the extra moneys to be spent in the community, hurting 
our rural and national economies. A strong farm economy makes 
for a strong national economy. That is why a good tax policy is 
vital to keep family farms in business.
    Iowa Corn works in conjunction with the National Corn 
Growers Association, and together we were supportive of your 
negotiated tax package, H.R. 7024, the Tax Relief for American 
Families and Workers Act. And we appreciate your work on these 
important tax matters, like the bonus depreciation and Section 
179 provisions.
    So every year, our Corn Growers Association conducts a 
member survey. We just got the results back. Over 90 percent of 
our members say that tax policy is number one to them, and we 
as an organization need to be focused on that. Tax policy is so 
important for our farmers to continue to thrive throughout the 
countryside.
    So next year, I will be eligible for Medicaid, which means 
entertaining thoughts about retiring and passing the family 
farm on to the next generation, or for me, my two boys. So I, 
as so many other farmers, are making plans for passing that 
farm down to the next generation, and changing tax provisions 
are a huge part of that estate planning process.
    So here are my thoughts to you to carry back to Washington.
    Number one, leave the estate tax rate at $13.6 million per 
person and adjust it for inflation annually.
    Number two, keep bonus depreciation, which allows us to not 
only modernize our equipment but allows us to farm more 
efficiently.
    And, number three, keep stepped-up basis, which allows us 
to transfer ownership of farmland and equipment, reducing 
capacity gains tax for our heirs.
    If these tax provisions change, it will be catastrophic for 
us and so many others who need their land and equipment to keep 
the farm operational.
    So let me just use my farm as an example. If the current 
estate tax rate stays at 13.6, I will be able to successfully 
pass my ground and equipment to my boys, without placing them 
in a tax liability position. However, if the current level is 
reduced back to $6 million, here is what is going to happen. My 
boys will either have to sell all the equipment and 70 acres or 
they are going to have to sell 275 acres of land and be able to 
keep the equipment.
    Both choices, in my book, are unacceptable, since selling 
275 acres of ground would mean that over half of the land that 
they stand to inherit is going to be gone and, for me, it will 
be destroying what their dad and I worked so hard to build.
    So our story is more common than not. Currently, 97 percent 
of farms are family-owned in the United States, so you will be 
decimating what helped build the strong American farm economies 
we know today. With the possible sale of the land to pay the 
estate tax, chances are it is going to be a larger farmer that 
buys that ground, not a beginning or a small farmer, which 
would add to the vertical integration that is already going on 
in the countryside.
    Plus, now let's add the taxes of the sale of that land and/
or equipment and then let's go to town and try and find a local 
lender to set up financing to be able to buy that equipment, to 
be able to buy that land back. And if successful, interest 
rates are going to be incredibly high just due to the riskiness 
of that loan.
    Couple that with the depressed farming commodity prices 
that we have today--and, oh, by the way, corn is down another 6 
cents today--will make it next to impossible to service that 
amount of tax debt, so basically destroying any chance of my 
sons continuing to farm the operation that has been in our 
family for close to 100 years.
    I know this is a lot to think about, but I want to leave 
you with this: The current tax provisions are essential to 
preserving family farms and farming throughout the United 
States. Protecting these policies is key to ensuring that we 
can pass our farms on to the next generation, because when we 
protect farming and farms, we protect our communities, we 
protect our food, and we protect our fuel, all things that have 
and will keep our country strong and keep the United States the 
envy of other nations.
    Thank you for this opportunity to provide this testimony 
today.
    And I do have one final request, and I know this is a big 
ask, but please, please, please, pass a farm bill this year. My 
dad----
    [Applause.]
    Ms. RIESSEN. So I come from a family of six kids and, 
needless to say, we fought a lot, and my dad would always say, 
You got to work along, you got to get along. My dad is 90 years 
old. He still farms.
    So I want you to take that advice back to D.C.: You got to 
work along and you got to get along. And I would certainly hope 
that we see some promise in getting that farm bill passed.
    And one more thing. You have a keychain there by you. You 
folks are the key to getting this farm bill passed, to getting 
these tax policies back on the farm for us. So please, I know 
that is kind of a corny gift, but it is so important the things 
that you folks will do for us out there.
    So thank you so much.
    [The statement of Ms. Riessen follows:]
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    Chairman SMITH. Thank you. Amen to that. Let's pass that 
farm bill.
    Mr. Sukup, you are recognized.

      STATEMENT OF STEVE SUKUP, PRESIDENT AND CEO, SUKUP 
                       MANUFACTURING CO.

    Mr. SUKUP. Thank you.
    Good morning, Chairman Smith, and all to the distinguished 
members joining us. Thank you for the opportunity to appear 
before you today at this important hearing. It is a special 
time in our community, and we are grateful to host you.
    My name is Steve Sukup. I am president and CEO of Sukup 
Manufacturing. We are located just south of Interstate 35 in 
Sheffield, Iowa. And I am proud to say that we are the largest 
family owned and operated manufacturer of grain storage, 
drying, and equipment.
    For over 60 years, Sukup has been a critical part of the 
U.S. food supply. We sell in every state represented here, 
throughout the Midwest and from California to New York. Our 
company is located in Congressman Feenstra's district, and I 
would like to thank him for being here today and our entire 
Iowa delegation.
    The tax reform bill of 2017 was a shot in the arm for 
manufacturers across our sector. Sukup has grown over the past 
decades, but nothing compares to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act when 
it was signed into law. For example, thanks to lowering the 
corporate tax rate to 21 percent, Sukup grew our workforce by a 
third, adding 200 well-paying manufacturing jobs in our 
community.
    The key to Sukup's success has not only been our culture 
but our dedication to creating and pushing our industry 
forward. Sukup has held over 100 U.S. patents. We are 
pioneering ways to make grain storage and drying more safe, 
profitable, and efficient for farmers and ranchers across the 
country. This is largely made possible by massive investments 
in research and development.
    In the years following tax reform, Sukup increased our R&D 
investment by several million dollars, with 95 percent of that 
money going towards engineering and staff wages, bringing well-
paying jobs to Iowa.
    One of these critical R&D investments is our safety homes. 
When a catastrophic earthquake struck Haiti in 2010, a Sukup 
safety manager wanted to develop an efficient, quickly 
assembled home from one of our grain bins to provide relief. I 
encouraged him to build a prototype. And today, our safety 
homes as you can see here on the fairgrounds today are changing 
lives worldwide.
    We also developed the world's largest 2.2 million bushel 
bin for ethanol plants. That is big enough to house a Boeing 
767. But, yes, the landing is difficult, even for you, 
Congressman Nunn.
    Unfortunately, after being part of our tax code for 70 
years, the expiration of immediate R&D expensing has made it 
harder for us to invest in the technologies and products of the 
future. Congress should immediately reinstate the expensing of 
R&D so manufacturers like Sukup can continue to innovate.
    Following the passage of the 2017 tax law, Sukup went from 
roughly $5 million in capital spending to almost $15 million 
per year, thanks to the 100 percent accelerated depreciation. 
This allowed us to fund new equipment purchases and fulfill our 
mission of providing Sukup employees with reliable, safe, and 
efficient equipment.
    Unfortunately, full expensing began to expire in 2023. We 
believe that was a mistake, and it is common sense that our Tax 
Code should encourage investment that leads to growth. Many 
manufacturing teams, including our company, would benefit from 
seeing this provision restored, and Congress should do it 
immediately.
    An accountant once told me, if you don't have some debt, 
that means you are not coming up with new ideas. Well, many 
manufacturers like us borrow moneys to finance essential long-
term investments. Tax reform made it less expensive to take 
business loans which manufacturers use to invest and grow their 
operations. Unfortunately, this pro-growth standard expired in 
2022 as well, making debt financing much more expensive. We are 
also counting on you to preserve tax reform sensible changes to 
the estate tax, so that we can ensure the third and fourth 
generations of Sukups can continue in our family business.
    Discussing tax policy before Congress is something of a 
tradition in our family. About 20 years ago, my father, Eugene 
Sukup, testified before the Senate Finance Committee, along 
with Warren Buffett. Since then, thanks to tax reform, we have 
had incredible growth streak in our business, and every one of 
our employees and customers has benefited.
    I urge you to keep that growing streak going. Maintaining 
the 21 percent corporate rate, as well as the tax provisions I 
just described, are so important to manufacturers everywhere. 
Because of these policies, we have been able not only to 
maintain our business; to provide great living, health 
benefits, and soon expanded child care for our employees and in 
our community, even as we aid those in need around the globe.
    Again, thank you for being here today, and thank you for 
looking at ways to keep Sukup Manufacturing a rural Iowa 
success story.
    Thank you.
    [The statement of Mr. Sukup follows:]
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    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Ms. Pol, you are now recognized.

   STATEMENT OF LANA POL, OWNER AND PRESIDENT, GEETINGS, INC.

    Ms. POL. Good morning, Chairman Smith, members of the House 
Committee on Ways and Means, and members of the Iowa 
delegation. My name is Lana Pol, and I own a number of small 
businesses here in Iowa. My businesses are Geetings, 
Incorporated, a local and regional trucking company; G.I. 
Warehouse Corporation, which specializes in commercial 
warehousing and logistics; Creative Inspiration, an embroidery, 
promotional, and customer fulfillment company; Mowbility Sales 
and Service, an outdoor power equipment, trailer, and small 
tractor dealer; and Odyssey Spas, which sells hot tubs and 
provides services for pools and spas.
    I thank you for this opportunity to discuss how tax policy 
impacts small businesses like mine here in the Midwest.
    Entrepreneurship runs deep in my family. My father, Delroy 
``Wayne'' Geetings, founded Geetings, Incorporated, in 1972 in 
Pella, Iowa. Three years later, he expanded his operations to 
nearby Knoxville with G.I. Warehouse Corporation. I joined his 
companies in 1975, and worked for many years with my family 
running these businesses.
    With the retirement of my brothers a few years ago, today I 
fully own these businesses and operate them with my children. 
My children share our family's passion for entrepreneurism, and 
I own and operate Mowbility Sales and Services, Odyssey Spas, 
and Creative Inspirations with them. It is my hope that each of 
these businesses will pass on to future generations in our 
family.
    While each of my businesses has their own purposes and 
their own unique challenges, they have all directly benefited 
from the policies in the 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, TCJA, 
aimed at growing small businesses, and they would each face 
challenges should these provisions expire. Today I would 
particularly like to focus on three provisions that are 
critical to our operations: the small business deduction, 199A, 
created under TCJA; the expansion of the bonus depreciation and 
small business expensing in TCJA; and the estate tax.
    Each of my businesses operate as a pass-through, that is, 
the business earnings flow through my individual tax returns. 
Like other pass-through companies, the small business deduction 
section, Section 199A, created in TCJA has provided multiple 
opportunities for me to reinvest and grow my businesses.
    Because of this deduction, I was able to give my employees 
the largest compensation increase that we have been able to 
provide in many years, which in turn has helped our efforts to 
retain employees, something that has not always been easy 
recently.
    Additionally, we were able to invest $2 million to build a 
nearly 40,000 square foot expansion of G.I. Warehouse 
Corporation and expand our fleet of trucks at Geetings.
    Our businesses have also benefited from the expansion of 
the expensing provision in TCJA. Under TCJA, full expensing for 
equipment could be recognized in the year of purchase instead 
of having to amortize costs over additional years through 
depreciation. This change allowed us to consistently add trucks 
and trailers to our fleet at Geetings, Incorporated. In fact, 
the first year of this expansion, we were able to purchase and 
immediately expense six new semi-trucks and, until recently, we 
have been able to continue this expansion.
    However, recently we have had to implement a freeze on 
purchasing any new equipment. This is due to the uncertainty of 
the tax provisions at the end of 2025 and because of the 
increased costs of equipment. In fact, in 2018, we purchased 
trucks for $158,000 each. In 2022, the trucks cost $251,000 
each. If these TCJA provisions were allowed to fully expire or 
otherwise be limited, it will create another hurdle to 
expanding our fleet in the future.
    Finally, like many family-owned businesses, the impact of 
the estate tax on a small business has become more real to me 
recently. My husband unexpectedly passed away earlier this 
year. At the time of passing, we were working on our estate 
planning, including succession planning for our family 
businesses. Each of my businesses is rooted in family 
operations. My hope for all of them is that they were not only 
passed on to my children but their children as well.
    While I agree with others that this tax should be 
eliminated entirely, if Congress does not at least act to 
preserve the expanded exemption of the estate tax under TCJA, 
it will be increasingly harder to pass family-owned businesses 
from generation to generation.
    If nothing else today, I want to stress to the committee 
that protecting small business is good for America. Small 
businesses are the foundation of the American economy.
    Without action, 30 million small businesses in the United 
States will be faced with a massive tax hike, which will hurt 
their ability to create jobs and give back to their 
communities. I urge Congress to act swiftly to provide small 
business with the certainty that they need to make these 
provisions permanent.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look 
forward to answering any questions.
    [The statement of Ms. Pol follows:]
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    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    I want to thank each one of our witnesses.
    We will now move to the question-and-answer portion.
    Mrs. Curry, as a mother of three young boys, very young 
boys, you know as well as anyone the joys but also the 
challenges that can come with raising kids. One policy that I 
have long championed is the Child Tax Credit. This pro-working 
family tax policy was created, I like to point out, by a 
Republican Congress back in 1997, and strengthened by a 
Republican Congress in the 2017 Trump tax cuts.
    Where the Trump tax cuts are set to expire at the end of 
next year, the Child Tax Credit will be slashed in half, from 
$2,000 to $1,000. And as a parent, what would that mean to your 
family, and what more should Congress consider doing with the 
Child Tax Credit to make it even more helpful to families like 
yours?
    Mrs. CURRY. I mean, every dollar that my husband and I earn 
that we get to keep goes towards our children. Like I said, 
Isaac, he is in speech therapy, occupational therapy. We are 
waiting for behavioral therapy. It is all very, very expensive. 
Health insurance doesn't cover everything. You know, Benjamin 
needed speech therapy because the little booger didn't want to 
talk when he turned two.
    So it is just, you know, expenses like that. You know, the 
water heater goes out. The furnace went out right after Phillip 
was born. And so looking at when we file our taxes, it happened 
early spring, and in Iowa it is still very cold then. So that 
was actually a really reprieve. You know, I didn't have to pay 
a whole lot extra in taxes. We got a little bit back, and it 
helped with that.
    So, you know, taxes affect my grocery bill. They affect my 
gas tank. They really, really do impact my kitchen table.
    So I would just ask, I mean, for nothing else, just keep it 
where it is at $2,000. An expansion would be very grateful, 
especially for those young children. Early intervention is new. 
It wasn't around when I was young. And so those services do 
cost more money. So maybe expanding it more for younger 
children versus older children would be an option to help. But, 
really, reducing it by any amount would negatively impact my 
family, my children, and really, specifically, our ability to 
pay for services.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Ms. Riessen, as a family farmer, you know how important it 
is that your farming equipment is up to date. It is about 
delivering the best product to your customers and about keeping 
your employees safe. I know how important it is to make sure 
your equipment and tools are up to date and helping you get the 
most out of your land to deliver goods to market faster, more 
efficiently, and in greater yields. But this investment comes 
at a tremendous cost, which is why Congress included the 
immediate 100 percent expensing for machines and equipment in 
the Trump tax cuts back in 2017. However, that provision has 
already begun to phase out. It was 80 percent last year. It 
will be 60 percent this year, 40 percent next year, and then 
20.
    What has been the impact and what will the future look like 
for family farms like yours if Congress does not address this 
critical piece of the tax code?
    Ms. RIESSEN. So my first thought is, if you like to eat, 
you will help us with this. From my experience this spring, our 
combine last fall was having issues. We looked at it this 
spring. To fix it was going to be basically $80,000. The 
combine is worth $120,000. So guess what? We had to get a 
different combine. If I wanted a brand new one, which my boys 
thought should happen, that is $750,000, $750,000 for a 2025. I 
am, like, wow. That could buy me a tremendous retirement home. 
But I couldn't do that to the boys.
    So, anyway, ended up buying a $450,000 one. And so, you 
know, when you buy that piece of equipment, you are expected to 
pay it off in three to seven years. That is usually what the 
finance is at, so those are pretty hefty bills that come to 
play. So being able to use that 100 percent depreciation, now 
it just freed up money so I can make those payments. You know, 
people have 20 years--20, 30 years to buy a house. Nope. A 
piece of equipment that is worth more than what a house is I 
got to pay off in three to five years, three to maybe seven if 
you talk well to your banker.
    So by having that, it allows me to make improvements on my 
farm to which--okay. So I kind of liken it to a cell phone. How 
many have a flip phone or a bag phone anymore? We want new 
technology. We need new technology on our farms in order to 
continue to be competitive out there. And by being able to use 
this, we are staying in the ball game.
    Chairman SMITH. So, Mr. Sukup, we know that sound tax 
policy can help America's businesses grow and innovate. We see 
the spirit of innovation every day from American manufacturers 
to our family farmers. America's farmers are some of the best 
innovators in the world as they are consistently researching 
ways to get more out of their land for today and future 
generations of farmers.
    In the 2017 Trump tax cuts, it sparked an 18 percent 
increase in investment in research and development in this 
country. As a business owner, what impact did the 2017 tax cuts 
have on your decision-making, and what would the current lapse 
in the ability to immediately expense R&D investment have meant 
to your capabilities to invest, innovate, or grow?
    Mr. SUKUP. Well, going back to 2017, we then switched to 
where we were doing about $5 million a year in research and 
development. We then started increasing that. We went up to $15 
million. And what that did was reinvest in machinery. We are 
manufacturing. So it is very heavy, capital-intensive 
equipment, but it provides our employees to be more safe and 
efficient and provide us to be able to put better products to 
our customers across the Midwest, across the world.
    And, also, with the lower tax rate, that was when we 
started a clinic, actually, in our manufacturing plant 
facility. Our third generation, my daughter, Emily, came up and 
said--worked with some of our H.R. folks and said our employees 
would really like this. Well, we reinvested into our employees. 
It has been a perfect fit for us for the clinic onsite. We are 
doing child care because that is so important to families 
throughout our community and for us to have them have a safe 
environment for their kids, but also to be able to come in and 
work at Sukup at the manufacturing jobs.
    Chairman SMITH. Ms. Pol, as an owner of four small 
businesses--small businesses are the foundation of our 
country's economy--you know how difficult it can be for Main 
Street businesses to compete with larger corporations who are 
taxed at a lower rate rather than as a so-called pass-through 
entity.
    Here in Iowa, pass-through businesses account for nearly 
half of all employment in the State. Across the U.S., 98 
percent of our family farms, which account for more than 90 
percent of our agriculture production, are also pass-through 
entities.
    What would it mean for your business if the 20 percent 
small business deduction that was included in the Trump tax 
cuts were to expire and you face an effective tax rate of over 
43.4 percent while the company Mrs. Dewalt works for pays 21 
percent?
    Ms. POL. That would be just devastating. You know, large 
companies also have so many other advantages that we don't 
have. You know, they also have the ability to make more money 
than we do. So when we get hit with these large tax increases, 
and it is unfair for small businesses to have so much more than 
they do, so it takes that money out of our pocket, and it takes 
it so we can't reinvest. We can't give raises. We have to 
compete against large companies for our employees. And so it is 
not always as easy to pay the wages that they can, have the 
benefits that they can. So we have used that benefit to give 
the wages. And so if it gets taken away, I think it is going to 
be harder and harder for us to be able to compete.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Mrs. Dewalt, during the Obama administration, prior to 
enactment of the 2017 Trump tax cuts, we saw over 25 major 
corporate inversions occur where businesses moved their 
headquarters and jobs overseas to fly the flag of another 
country. The Trump tax cuts made several changes to make it 
more competitive for U.S. businesses to be located and do 
business here in the United States.
    Can you talk specifically about some of those changes and 
how they can impact the decisions by U.S. businesses to keep 
their operations here in the U.S.?
    Mrs. DEWALT. Thank you for the question, Chairman Smith.
    So the corporate rate prior to TCJA was uncompetitive on a 
global scale. So the reduction certainly encourages businesses 
to invest in the U.S. So at The Home Depot we are predominantly 
domestic, and the reduction of the corporate tax rate to 21 
percent enabled us to make significant investments: investments 
in wage of $2 billion, permanent investments in wage of $2 
billion, enhancing our supply chain $1.2 billion, 18,000 jobs.
    So in our business decision-making, we factor in the 
corporate rate and other factors when we make all of our 
decisions about pricing, about wage, about expansion, and other 
investments. It is key to have a competitive 21 percent rate in 
the United States for companies like ours to continue this 
level of investment.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    I now recognize Mr. Feenstra.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Thank you.
    And thank you again to all the witnesses.
    You know, you think about tax, and if you reduce tax, you 
give families, businesses more money to do different things. We 
just heard about that. What it also does, it increases revenue 
to our country. Yeah, it is a shocker.
    In 2017, under the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, we dramatically 
reduced taxes. And you know what happened? It grew our economy 
and we brought in record number of revenue. What does that do? 
That will help us reduce our debt, our $35 trillion debt, if we 
continue to grow. That is why I am so passionate about it.
    The other thing I am passionate about is tax inequity. 
There is a lot of tax inequity. One specific one is the death 
tax, estate tax. We got rid of it in the state of Iowa. I was a 
big proponent of that. But we haven't got rid of it at the 
federal government level.
    I have 170-some Members that have signed on to my bill to 
rid of the death tax. It is a pilfer tax. Think about it this 
way: You collect all this land throughout your life. You die, 
and all of a sudden your family member has got to pay 42 
percent tax on that land. Think about that, 42 percent. That is 
wrong in so many ways.
    So, Mr. Sukup, I want to ask you, you are talking about the 
third and fourth generation coming down the pipe. How will this 
affect you if you have to pay that 42 percent?
    Mr. SUKUP. We wouldn't be able to pass it on. Right now, I 
am part of the second generation, my brother and I. Our third 
generation is in the office every day. We have six members of 
our third generation. They enjoy coming to Sheffield every day 
and working throughout the different jobs of our manufacturing. 
But to be able to pass it on, that would just be overwhelming 
and not possible.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. It would just be a killer, absolutely. And 
all of a sudden, that next generation is lost.
    Mr. SUKUP. And that family business closes or leaves the 
community.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. That is exactly right. And that happens to 
small businesses and our main streets day and day--day and time 
and time again.
    I want to talk about something else that is so important to 
Iowa. You think about, right now, over 50 percent of our crop, 
corn and soybeans, goes to biofuels. Every other row virtually 
goes to biofuels.
    Right now, if you look at our commodity prices, our corn is 
under $4. Our soybeans are under $10. Right? Now, we could 
export more or we could use more of it. How do you use more? 
You do it through biofuels, ethanol and biodiesel. To do that, 
we have got to grow our market through sustainable aviation 
fuels and other things.
    So I want to talk about 45Z. All right. This is a tax 
credit that can dramatically expand these markets and, in 
essence, put us on the same foothold as electric vehicles. 
Right now, we have a thumb on the scale for electric vehicles 
and not liquid fuels. This gives us an opportunity to compete. 
And if we don't, we are going to probably see our commodity 
prices cut nearly in half again.
    Ms. Riessen, can you talk about this?
    Ms. RIESSEN. You bet. So that 45Z is going to be a game 
changer for us out there when it comes to the grain price, 
because with the 45Z the Nation and our domestic consumers are 
asking for low carbon. So one way of doing that is through 
carbon sequestration, and this 45Z helps ethanol plants get set 
up to be able to do that.
    So when we do that, my corn that goes to that ethanol plant 
now, I am not expecting to get a lot of corn--I mean, a lot of 
any tax return back from that, but what it does is make 
markets, and it makes better prices. But the only way that is 
going to happen is if we specifically say that we use the corn 
that is produced domestically. Because at this point in time, 
our friends down in Brazil are importing their ethanol into 
Georgia to make sustainable aviation fuels, and my 
understanding is they will qualify for this tax cut, this 45Z. 
We can't let that happen. I am sorry. I mean, I love all 
farmers, but not that much.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. We need to use domestic feedstock. We can't 
use stock from around the world.
    Ms. RIESSEN. Right. And so in a recent study I just saw is, 
so for every dollar invested in that 45Z tax credit, it will 
return $4 to $6 for every dollar invested. So I am like, you 
know what, I am sorry, I think this is a no-brainer, but you 
got to take it back to Congress and get that happening.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. Thank you for that.
    I just want to tell everybody, we have to remind ourselves 
that when our farmers are successful, our main streets are 
successful, our hospitals, our schools, everything is 
successful. And when our commodity prices are where they are 
at--and we are going to feel it this fall, all right--no one is 
going to buy a vehicle, a piece of equipment or a bin, 
whatever, that is why it is so important that we have 45Z and 
make sure we have that bill.
    Ms. RIESSEN. Right.
    Mr. FEENSTRA. I yield back. My time is up.
    Thank you.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Mrs. Hinson is recognized.
    Mrs. HINSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to talk a little bit more about something that has 
already been discussed today, and that is the Child Tax Credit 
and the expansion of that under the 2017 Trump tax cuts. 
Doubled the tax credit, increased its refundability, and raised 
that income threshold. And all that does is it makes it so that 
more families, more hardworking Iowa families and American 
families can access that credit.
    So building on that foundation, I actually introduced a 
package of bills called the Providing for Life Act. It really 
prioritizes the needs of our families and ensures that they 
have the resources to thrive. It would expand the Child Tax 
Credit, include provisions for paid family leave, support for 
expecting parents and pregnancy centers, and it would 
specifically increase the refundable Child Tax Credit up to 
$3,500 for kids under the age of 18 and $4,500 for kids under 
the age of six, also expanding the credit to unborn babies 
during a woman's pregnancy.
    So in addition to that, it would also make the adoption tax 
credit fully refundable. This would help people like my 
colleague, Mr. Nunn, over here who have taken it upon 
themselves to adopt children and expand their families. Kids 
deserve to have a loving, happy family, and this can help with 
that.
    So by broadening access to these benefits in the Tax Cuts 
and Jobs Act and then legislation like what I proposed, it 
would help to reduce child poverty. It would alleviate 
financial pressure on real working families who often face 
these unique challenges, such as limited job opportunities, 
longer commutes, and higher costs for those essential services.
    So, Mrs. Curry, I just wanted to ask you, you know, when 
you hear about the expansions that I just talked about, even 
above and beyond the Child Tax Credit, would those resources, 
and having conversations with your neighbors in rural America, 
really help families like yours?
    Mrs. CURRY. Thank you for the question.
    Yes, the expansion of the Child Tax Credit would, without a 
doubt, help myself and my neighbors and others. You know, being 
a part of the autism community, I know a lot of families that 
are also struggling and constantly looking for support or 
different services. And they are not cheap, let me tell you, 
but, you know, they are our kids. You can't say no. It is what 
they need to be fully functioning adults one day and to, you 
know, really just exist in society. So expanding that for young 
children, I think that is so valuable.
    I can't tell you the number of doctors appointments we have 
gone to for a heart murmur or, you know, having to find a 
specialist pediatric ophthalmologist because we didn't know, 
you know, if they were seeing well. And so all of those 
expenses, right, and parents are just trying to do the best job 
they can for their kids. And it is expensive, and it is getting 
more and more expensive.
    I can tell you, when I go to Sam's Club to buy chicken 
nuggets and fruit for my kids, the price just keeps going up 
and up and up. And, you know, I buy milk three gallons at a 
time, and it is getting more and more expensive.
    So, again, expanding that Child Tax Credit would help 
families like mine and really help, like, our kitchen table.
    Mrs. HINSON. Yeah. I have a 13-year-old now, so we feel you 
on the personal level. I had no idea how much 13-year-old boys 
eat. It is really gross to watch them eat sometimes. But 
certainly feel that in my grocery bill, and I am sure, much 
like you, I see those expenses tack up, tack up, tack up and 
add up.
    So I want to move to domestic manufacturing because, 
obviously, that is such an important part of our rural economy 
here. And we have seen and heard already about the investments 
in businesses creating those jobs right here in rural America. 
And our foreign adversaries, like China, continue to ramp up 
their investment in work and research to gain control of our 
critical supply chains. So I think it has never been more 
important for Congress to really commit to pro-growth policies 
that help American leadership on the global stage.
    So getting to that investment, Mr. Sukup, as a business 
owner, can you speak to the importance of this tax policy that 
keeps us competitive not just here at home but on that world 
stage? Because you sell your equipment all over the world, so 
you see those impacts day to day.
    Mr. SUKUP. Yes. We export containers every week out of our 
company. It goes across the globe. Being able to have the--
whether it is the depreciation or the lower tax rate lets us 
reinvest into our manufacturing. And I think over the last 4 
years with COVID and everything, you have seen how important 
manufacturing and domestic manufacturing is. And so this Tax 
Cuts and Jobs Act is just critical for us to continue with that 
aggressive mode.
    Mrs. HINSON. So if these cuts are allowed to expire--and 
you have talked about a lot of the growth you have 
experienced--that will mean some hard decision-making for you 
and your family?
    Mr. SUKUP. Yes. No, there would be some pullback. So far, 
our markets have stayed strong and, you know, we have added 200 
well-paying manufacturing jobs, and our intent is to keep 
everybody busy.
    Mrs. HINSON. Yeah. Well, you are certainly doing a great 
job of that. So thank so much for coming today.
    And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    It is great to have Dr. Miller-Meeks with us. We will 
recognize you for an opening statement and for your questions.
    Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. Thank you very much, Chairman Smith and 
the Ways and Means Committee, for holding this incredibly 
important hearing here today in the heartland of America in 
Iowa, at the greatest state fair in the country, the Iowa State 
Fair.
    And I also want to thank our five witnesses for taking the 
time to be here. You represent the best of America, real people 
facing real problems asking for real solutions.
    The 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act significantly transformed 
the American economy, fostering an environment that stimulated 
growth and improved the financial well-being of millions of 
Americans. The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act provided much needed 
relief for families by lowering Federal tax rates across all 
income levels. As a result, low- and middle-income households 
experienced an increase in disposable income, enabling them to 
invest in their homes, save for education, and enhance their 
quality of life.
    Businesses of all sizes were also major beneficiaries of 
the TCJA. With lower tax rates, companies had more resources to 
invest in research and development, infrastructure, and 
workforce training. As companies reinvested in their 
operations, productivity increased, and wages rose for American 
earners.
    And as the chair of the Conservative Climate Caucus, Ms. 
Riessen, your comments on the equipment that you can buy, if 
you are concerned about climate, as our colleagues on the other 
side of the aisle who are not here today, you would want 
farmers to be able to invest in the most up-to-date equipment 
that leads to precision agriculture and less inputs.
    The 2017 Tax Cuts and Jobs Act catalyzed a period of 
economic growth and opportunity for families, small businesses, 
and corporations alike. By lowering tax rates and encouraging 
investments, the TCJA not only enhanced financial security for 
millions of Americans but also positioned the United States 
economy for long-term success.
    In conclusion, the expiration of the 2017 Trump tax cuts 
would not only impose significant tax increases on middle-class 
families but also hinder economic growth and stability. It 
would disproportionately impact small businesses, lead to job 
losses, and diminish the competitive position of American 
companies in the global market, as Representative Hinson 
alluded to.
    As we look toward a future of economic recovery and growth 
at a time when commodity prices are low, at a time when the 
national debt is high, it is critical that Congress act to 
extend and protect these vital tax policies, ensuring that 
American families, workers, and small businesses can thrive. 
The success of our economy, and indeed our nation, relies on a 
tax framework that promotes investment, encourages job 
creation, and promotes financial security for all Americans.
    Thank you.
    Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. Mrs. Curry, thank you for being here 
with us today. I understand that you had your first child back 
around the same time that the Child Tax Credit was doubled from 
$1,000 to $2,000 under the Trump tax cuts. And like 
Representative Hinson, I also have signed on to legislation 
that would extend the Child Tax Credit during pregnancy.
    As a mom of three here in Iowa, can you describe to us the 
impact that the child care tax credit after 2017 had on you and 
your family?
    Mrs. CURRY. Yes. The impact the Child Tax Credit had on me 
after the birth of my first son, in that first year, we had the 
smaller amount, and so we owed additional taxes when we filed. 
And so we definitely felt the pinch there, new parents and 
having additional taxes due.
    The following year was the first year in a long time we got 
a refund, and it was a welcome kind of breath of fresh air. We 
didn't have to stress so much.
    So, yes, the expansion of the Child Tax Credit had an 
immediate impact, noticeable impact on my family.
    Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. Thank you.
    Unfortunately, that provision is set to expire at the end 
of 2025, which would cut the child care tax credit in half, 
impacting millions of working families across the country who 
depend on the Child Tax Credit to help support their children. 
And I think you have elucidated well what the impact would be, 
especially when you are commuting in rural Iowa to jobs.
    Ms. Pol, you are from my district, the beautiful city of 
Pella. Thank you for being here with us today.
    What are some of the challenges that you face running a 
small family-owned business here in Iowa? And what tax 
provisions have helped relieve some of those challenges?
    Ms. POL. I think our largest challenge is the low 
unemployment that is here in Iowa. To get qualified workers, we 
are constantly competing against large businesses, and we don't 
always have the opportunity to be able to pay the same wages, 
have the same benefits that they do.
    So we were able to take the 20 percent deduction and give 
large raises to our employees. We added a few more benefits to 
them, and we also were able to add to our starting wage. So it 
allows us to be more competitive. And coming from Pella, Iowa, 
that has Pella Corporation, Vermeer Manufacturing, neighboring 
3M in Knoxville, and Hormel, we compete against a lot of large 
businesses for a small area.
    Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. I think the Trump tax cuts, as you said, 
created the 20 percent small business deduction that benefited 
Main Street businesses such as yourself across America and in 
small communities. However, the Biden-Harris administration has 
all but said that they would let this provision expire after 
2025, increasing Main Street's effective rate to 43.4 percent. 
And I think as you indicated, in order for small businesses and 
entrepreneurs to exist in our country, which is the backbone of 
the American economy, we need to have those provisions in 
place.
    And can you talk to us a little bit more about the removal 
of the small business deduction, what it would mean for your 
family business?
    Ms. POL. Right now, especially with the economy the way it 
is and with inflation the way it is, we are getting hit from 
all sides, whether it is increases in equipment, increases in 
parts, increases in labor costs. Warehouses have gone up and 
almost doubled to buy and build a new warehouse at this point. 
So now we are getting increases also in the insurance costs for 
that because we do replacement costs on it. So every place that 
we look at we are getting increases. Property taxes. And by 
having this--if this increases too, we are going to have to 
look really, really hard at, you know, how we are going to be 
able to make it through the next while.
    Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. It is difficult when you are getting hit 
on all sides and your federal government isn't helping to 
prevent it.
    Ms. Riessen, can you explain how the option of using bonus 
depreciation to modernize equipment has affected the 
productivity and efficiency of your farm and your ability to 
plan for future growth and expansion?
    Ms. RIESSEN. So my two boys who are currently farming with 
me--I lost my husband 5 years ago to cancer. And so this bonus 
depreciation, the death tax, stepped-up basis are all--I have 
lived it, and I am telling you right now that by losing that, 
you are decimating the next generation of farmers coming down 
the tubes.
    But to get to your depreciation part of it, by being able 
to upgrade equipment--so the combine I was talking to you about 
this year that, you know, would be great to live in if I could, 
but--anyway, so it is going to have the GPSing. It is going to 
have--it will have the ability to communicate with the other 
combine so that when it comes time for, say, you are in a super 
big field and you are not sure if you have got everything done, 
it will tell you where there are areas at that have to be 
farmed yet. So then instead of driving from one side of the 
farm to the other because you forgot a strip out there, it 
takes care of that. So I am saving fuel, and that is reducing 
my carbon emissions because the new equipment is way more 
effective as far as for, you know, the emissions part and the 
mapping, and the list goes on.
    So I say to me it is like, you know, am I going to use a 
bag phone out there to harvest or am I going to use the best 
iPhone possible in order to do my job as quickly and as 
efficiently as possible.
    Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. And very briefly, because I am over 
time, does that also apply to the 199A small business 
deduction----
    Ms. RIESSEN. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
    Mrs. MILLER-MEEKS. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Mr. Nunn is recognized.
    Mr. NUNN. Thank you, Chairman Smith.
    Thank you again for the group for being here today and 
offering real Iowa common sense on how a tax policy not only 
helps grow an economy but helps everyday working families.
    So, Mrs. Curry, as not only a fellow Iowan, but here in the 
district together, and of all the titles you have, with the 
family farm, working a nonprofit, leading advocacy for kids 
with autism, I think your best title is probably mom. And the 
reality is here, you know, you are reflective of 30 percent of 
Iowans who benefit from this tax credit. Look, almost half a 
million Iowans qualify for it, and it doubles their ability to 
have savings.
    I want to ask you, you know, when you got that tax credit, 
that money back in your pocket, did you go out and buy an 
Italian-made Ferrari?
    Mrs. CURRY. No. No, sir, I did not.
    Mr. NUNN. Did you hostilely take over a foreign entity, 
build it offshore?
    Mrs. CURRY. No.
    Mr. NUNN. What did you do with your tax credit, because you 
are reflective of a working-class family, to be able to help 
your kids?
    Mrs. CURRY. We paid our speech therapist, and we took Isaac 
to a specialist eye doctor, and we bought a new water heater 
that spring.
    Mr. NUNN. Mr. Chairman, that is a real investment back in 
our economy here. Most important, it is a real investment in 
our families' and our kids' future. That is exactly what this 
tax credit is meant to do, and it is so very important that we 
continue to extend it into the future.
    It is one of the reasons I am proud to be leading the 
Keeping Siblings Act together as parents, also as a foster dad, 
which I share with Mr. Smith here on the committee as well, and 
as foster parents, being able to help those generation of kids 
be successful, hugely important for our future.
    Thank you, Mrs. Curry, for everything you do.
    Ms. Pol, I want to talk with you as well. Look, you are a 
small business owner. Iowa is home to over 270,000 small 
businesses. In fact, here in Iowa, we have an outsized voice. 
Ninety-nine percent of businesses in Iowa are identified as 
small businesses. Being able to really help make this up is 
huge.
    Now, if these tax credits expire, 92 percent of Main Street 
businesses in Iowa would experience a 43 percent-plus tax 
increase. I think it is fair to say that would decimate a lot 
of our small towns and communities, not just here in Iowa, 
across the country.
    Would you be able to keep your supply chain going if you 
had tax increases like this levied on your door 
instantaneously?
    Ms. POL. I think it is going to be tough. You know, I am 
scared what is going to happen if it does expire, because I 
have seen small businesses already closing in Iowa, you know, 
especially in the restaurant industry, unfortunately. And with 
everything that is happening and the cost of everything, with 
inflation, we are getting hit so hard the way it is, and then 
if we are going to be paying these kind of increases--we have 
had a really rough two years across the board with my 
businesses, so we are already hurting. So with this happening, 
it could be devastating to us and across the board for Iowa and 
the United States.
    Mr. NUNN. And, Ms. Pol, I think you are absolutely right 
here. You talk about rippling effects. An increase in your 
trucking business means an increase for everyone in America 
with a supply chain that costs a lot more if you are paying 
more taxes.
    Tell me the opposite. If we are able to extend the tax cut, 
how does that help out bringing down prices for every American?
    Ms. POL. Well, that is great because we can continue to 
invest, you know, and we do. You know, the money doesn't come 
back into our pockets.
    Mr. NUNN. That is right.
    Ms. POL. You know, as small business owners, we reinvest. 
We reinvest in the communities. We reinvest in our employees. 
And that is the thing we will continue to do.
    Mr. NUNN. Well, and that is one of the reasons I am proud 
to support the Main Street Tax Certainty Act. It is one of the 
things we have done to make this permanent so you have 
permanency in your reinvestment here in our communities and 
growing across the country.
    Ms. Riessen--I should just call you Farmer Riessen. You 
know, you have been working with us so hard to highlight the 
success of an investment in America's ag, America's energy, 
America's national security. You are a practitioner in this.
    Look, the 2017 tax cuts offered us an explosive growth 
opportunity for reinvestment. It also increased U.S. investment 
by 20 percent and provided a crucial death tax exemption, 
something that we want to make sure we see increased.
    Talk to me about how your family farm is investing in these 
new innovations. Things like sustainable aviation fuel, 45Z tax 
credit, it is helping us grow our domestic energy production. 
Are these tax credits really the innovation of the future that 
you are using on the farm?
    Ms. RIESSEN. Oh, holy cow, I can't believe you are even 
asking me that. For me, that is a no-brainer. I mean, as a 
farmer, when I am getting tax breaks to help invest in markets 
and to invest in trade, when I have trade, I have security in 
my market. I have better markets because more people are 
competing for what I am growing. So, you know, just thinking as 
a farmer, so every dollar I spend in the community now it gets 
rolled six times, so----
    Mr. NUNN. Yes, we agree with you.
    Ms. RIESSEN. So it is like--so the people that I touch with 
what I am doing for, you know, the farming sector of it, it is 
huge. So just know that any money that--you know, everybody 
likes less tax, and so any money that we do manage to save gets 
invested right back into equipment or maintenance or whatever 
else happens to come up. You know, we have livestock and so----
    Mr. NUNN [continuing]. That is right.
    Ms. RIESSEN [continuing]. We have way more equipment, 
probably, than anybody else does in the countryside, but----
    Mr. NUNN. Thank you, Ms. Riessen.
    Ms. RIESSEN. So thank you.
    Mr. NUNN. These are not just tax credits. These are tax 
investments. As you say, every dollar invested is multiple 
dollars returned.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield my time.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Mr. Smith is recognized.
    Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you to our entire panel and everyone participating 
here today. It is great to see the entire Iowa delegation here. 
It doesn't surprise me because they show up, and it is great to 
work together on things like biofuels where we can stick 
together. I happen to be from Nebraska, where we have a few 
biofuels and other similar industries in Nebraska. But we work 
together, and I think that is important. And we take from you 
your perspectives and apply them.
    And I am grateful to have been a part of passing the 
original Tax Cuts and Jobs Act and the work and the diligence 
that went into that when we happened to have votes in 2017. We 
started working on that long before we had the votes, and I 
think it is important to note that the diligence we are doing 
right now this very moment, thanks to our chairman here 
scheduling meetings, gatherings such as this, is hearing from 
you as we move forward.
    Now, I think it is important to note that TCJA is a very 
successful tool for growing our economy. I am glad we did that 
before COVID and the disruption in supply chains and various 
dynamics.
    I am also grateful when we can hear from a company that 
pays more in taxes than they did before and they are happy 
about it because they have the ability to pay that. And that 
might be a company, that might be individuals as well. But I 
think it is our job to hear from you and to dig down, to look 
for those details so that we can, hopefully, help form the 
future for more opportunity for future generations and pay down 
this debt that our country has accumulated.
    And so, you know, in the runup to 2017 tax reform, it is 
important to note that even Barack Obama realized we were not 
competitive on the corporate side. We were losing--as the 
chairman pointed out, we were losing American companies, strong 
American companies to relocation to other tax jurisdiction 
because it was more favorable. A very logical move, by the way. 
And even Barack Obama, like I said, noticed that we needed to 
be more competitive.
    And now he endorsed a lower corporate rate, and we wanted 
to be very certain that we would be very competitive, and that 
is why we chose the 21 percent rate as low as we possibly could 
and still have the resources for family credits and standard 
deduction--doubling the standard deduction, various components 
here.
    But I think it is very compelling when we hear from folks 
who are paying more in taxes now than they were before and they 
are happy about it, and it is instructive moving forward.
    But, Mrs. Dewalt, I guess it is only appropriate that you 
are with The Home Depot with a last name like Dewalt, right?
    Mrs. DEWALT. Coincidence.
    Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. It is coincidence. No advertising 
there.
    Can you elaborate a little bit on, you know, the corporate 
rate--which happens to be paid by some small corporations too, 
by the way. It is not just large corporations. But I am glad 
that you have the footprint that you do. I would imagine some 
younger folks showing cattle out here at the State Fair 
probably paid your stores a few visits over time.
    But can you elaborate on what you did with that 21 percent 
rate, you know, those differences? You spoke a little bit about 
it in your opening, but can you tell us with even more detail 
how you handled that 21 percent rate?
    Mrs. DEWALT. Sure. So as I mentioned, our business model 
has a number of inputs, factors that we consider in investing. 
And so the decrease in the corporate rate that was 35 down to 
21 created an opportunity for us to really focus, double-down 
on investing in our business. And we did so with our supply 
chain expansion, which increased our footprint, created jobs, 
and helps us to better serve our customers.
    We also took care of our associates, which is one of our 
core values at Home Depot. So we increased wages by a billion 
dollars, permanent wage increase in 2021, and then a second 
billion dollar wage increase announced last year. Those are 
permanent, not bonuses, but wage increases.
    We also just completed an acquisition of SRS Distribution, 
which is a wholesale distributor of building materials, 
primarily roofing, and that is really going to accelerate how 
we serve our pro customers.
    And so small businesses are essential partners to The Home 
Depot. So they serve us as suppliers. I talked about the 80 
suppliers, you know, here in this State. And they also make up 
a large portion of our pro customers, which is a very big part 
of our business, and it is growing. And our ability to be 
competitive with price, to have the materials when and where 
the pro customer needs them is really helping them better 
manage their businesses as well. And so we see the business 
community, corporate and small business, as the ecosystem that 
drives the economy.
    Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. Very good. Thank you.
    I wish I had more time because I have a lot more questions. 
But thank you again for being here, very appropriate topic in 
an appropriate place.
    Thank you.
    Chairman SMITH. Mr. Schweikert.
    Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And I appreciate, you know, being someone--I am from the 
desert. I am from a place called Scottsdale, and I saw more 
green in the bus ride here than I think I have seen in my 
entire State. And they were complaining it was hot yesterday. I 
am going, it is 116 at home.
    We have some real difficult decisions we have to work 
through over the next year. The fact of the matter is today, 
100 percent of defense of the United States is borrowed money. 
One hundred percent of government, as you know it, is borrowed 
money, all--Park Service, everything is all borrowed. And 
about--I was just doing the math--37 percent of Medicare is on 
borrowed money. This year, our income taxes, 45 percent of it 
will just pay the interest. Interest is now the second biggest 
spend in the United States.
    We need you to grow like crazy, and then we need to find a 
number of things where we are going to stop spending or do it 
better, faster, cheaper, adopt technology. And there is 
technology to crash the price of healthcare, because healthcare 
is the primary driver of U.S. debt.
    And, Mr. Sukup, you actually hit a couple of things that I 
really wish we would understand: the investment in research and 
development, the ability to expense a piece of equipment so you 
do it better, faster, and safer. You are one of the few people 
I have ever had use that word, ``safer.''
    Tell me your experience of, in those years where you had 
that expensing and the R&D credits--which is just a 
depreciation. It is not a tax cut. It would just move up the 
depreciation--how did it change your business?
    Mr. SUKUP. Well, we were able to incentivize our engineers, 
staff. We hired individuals to reinvest, research and 
development, take a look at what we could do better and faster, 
more efficiently for products for our farmers and ranchers 
across the country. We take that research and development, put 
it into action, and then it provides us some predictability in 
the tax----
    Mr. SCHWEIKERT. But did you produce--in that investment in 
your research and development, did you come up with faster ways 
or better or safer pieces of equipment that sort of leaped your 
company forward in those couple of years that you had 100 
percent of it?
    Mr. SUKUP. Yes. We have developed new grain dryers that we 
use across the country. We actually have some going into 
pistachios----
    Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Forgive me for--you'll later on explain 
what a grain dryer is?
    Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. Oh, yes.
    Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Okay.
    Mr. SUKUP. We actually dry pistachios, California and 
Arizona.
    Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Yes.
    Mr. SUKUP. And so we use those. And they are looking for 
high efficiency, to reduce the carbon outputs. We look at our 
carbon footprint. And so it is going to provide better products 
across the Midwest. We have to compete globally. We do that in 
manufacturing.
    When we invest capital equipment with the accelerated 
depreciation, what has to go along with the equipment? Skilled 
workers. We bring in skilled manufacturing jobs. And so we are 
able to grow and expand.
    Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Mrs. Dewalt, and so you are my reason the 
DeWalts were always on sale, right? I just noticed that last 
month.
    You have spoken of--and I couldn't find it real quick how 
tax reform happens. There are a number of us on this committee 
that know it doesn't just happen. It took years of calculating 
the money and trying to get the economic effects and what would 
maximize opportunity. And it turns out the tax receipts that 
came in afterwards were dramatically higher than we ever 
expected in our models.
    How much for Home Depot do you believe of that--moving to 
the 21 percent rate, how much of it moved into wages, both in 
the raised wages and the new hires? Would you speculate to 
guess?
    Mrs. DEWALT. Thank you for the question.
    What I can say about wages is that, with the reduction of 
the rate to 21 percent, obviously we have more capital to 
invest. And so our wages have increased higher than wage 
inflation. So we have been able to stay ahead of our wage 
increases to our associates, and now our associates are at or 
above $15 an hour across our stores.
    Chairman SCHWEIKERT. Thank you, Mrs. Dewalt.
    Mr. Chairman, I will try to find the study, but I had a 
study last year that showed, and I think--and I am doing it 
from memory--67 percent of the corporate tax cut went to wages. 
And with your permission, I would like to enter that into the 
record.
    And with that, I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. So ordered.
    [The information follows:]
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    Chairman SMITH. Mr. LaHood.
    Mr. LaHOOD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I want to thank our witnesses for your valuable testimony 
today. I also want to thank our friends from Iowa for issuing 
us a visa to come to your state and be here and participate in 
the Iowa State Fair. What a great opportunity to be here. I 
actually went to college in Iowa for 4 years, and it is great 
to be back. First time at the Iowa State Fair, and so really, 
really grateful for the opportunity to be here with everybody.
    And my district is contiguous to Iowa. I share a border 
with Congresswoman Miller-Meeks and also with Ashley Hinson. My 
district is very similar to the districts here in Iowa, heavy 
ag district. It is the tenth largest ag district in the country 
in terms of corn and soybean production. I have eight ethanol 
plants that touch my district. We produce a lot of cattle and 
hogs in our district, and are very involved in the biofuels 
conversation too. And so it is great to be here.
    And I would just--as I listen to the witnesses here today 
and hear you articulate the benefits from TCJA, nobody can do 
it I think better than how you guys have done it, whether it is 
a large corporation, whether it is a working family, whether it 
is a small farming operation, a small business, medium-size 
business, and an entrepreneur.
    As you have articulated what TCJA has done for you, I think 
it is remarkable, and that is why we are doing these field 
hearings all across the country, to hear from regular people on 
what TCJA has done. And as you articulated those things, I 
thought about everything that we have done with TCJA: reduced 
taxes, put more money in the pockets of middle-class and lower-
class citizens, created millions of new jobs, hired more 
people, moved 6 million people out of poverty when we passed 
TCJA. We repatriated almost $3 trillion back to the United 
States with TCJA. And the investment that we have seen in small 
and medium and large businesses has been immense across the 
country.
    And so as I think about TCJA, it may be, in my 8 years in 
Congress, the vote that we took on TCJA may be the most 
impactful vote that I have taken. And I am so grateful to hear 
you today articulate all of those things on why we need to be 
focused on this next year for the economy and for our 
citizenry.
    And I also think about the Biden-Harris administration. 
They chose to remain in D.C. and have proposed $7 trillion in 
tax hikes, where the Ways and Means Committee has been 
traveling across the country to hear firsthand about the 
challenges of working Americans who are currently facing to 
develop a roadmap to get our economy back to where it was 
immediately following TCJA in 2017.
    For example, we have set up tax teams, through Chairman 
Smith, 10 different tax teams that are meeting and getting 
feedback from across the country. I happen to chair the 
American Workforce Tax Team, which is considering ways to 
better utilize the Tax Code by hiring and retainment of more 
workers, and all of us are a part of those tax teams.
    I have a number of questions, but I will start with you, 
Mr. Sukup. You mentioned in your testimony that following TCJA 
you were able to significantly expand your business operation 
and hire more workers. Can you provide more details on how 
provisions from TCJA allowed you to hire and retain more 
workers?
    Mr. SUKUP. Well, the accelerated depreciation on research 
and development was just critical on that, that we could take 
that return on investment. We invested in wages and staff and 
engineering, provided better products. And our customers liked 
our products, and we added 200 manufacturing jobs. And with 
accelerated depreciation, we add capital equipment, we need 
skilled folks to run that, and so we added 200 individuals over 
this time period.
    Mr. LaHOOD. Excellent.
    I mentioned that I have a heavy ag district. And the 
potential economic growth around the biofuels industry is 
something, again, I have been very engaged in and spent a lot 
of time talking about. As we look to future tax policy 
proposals, can you comment on the specific pro-growth 
initiatives that can better support our farmers and biofuel 
producers?
    Mr. SUKUP. Well, it is one that, you know, I think 
Congressman Feenstra said about practically one out of every 
two rows of corn is going to biofuels. It provides us with 
energy self-sufficiency here in the U.S., which I think is just 
absolutely critical. And it can provide, going into like the 
45Z, to give us more incentives to be--take less carbon out of 
our air.
    Mr. LaHOOD. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Mr. Estes.
    Mr. ESTES. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you for our witnesses for being here. It is so 
heartening to hear your stories, just because it tells about 
the success that has happened since TCJA was passed. And 
whether you are talking about research and development or 
depreciation or being able to go through estate planning or 
planning your lives or, you know, how you can actually help 
wages increase, as we have talked so much during this panel of 
all the benefits that came out of TCJA, it is so great to be 
here. We are out of the D.C. bubble, being able to talk to 
people. I call it the real world out here, away from the D.C. 
Beltway.
    You know, being here at the Iowa State Fair, it is, I know, 
a lot like the Kansas State Fair where people come for the 
rides and the food and entertainment. But I know also that 
people come because they want to learn more about what is going 
on in the agriculture arena, what kind of innovation and ideas 
that are out there.
    Of course, not to be competitive, but the Iowa State Fair 
did start 20 years before the Kansas State Fair did, and also I 
think maybe have better marketing folks. But the one excuse I 
will use is that the Iowa State Fair was started before Kansas 
was a state, so we couldn't really call ours a state fair at 
that point in time.
    And, you know, while we are here, as we talk about all 
these innovations that Americans are known for and we learn 
more about what is going on in terms of how American 
agriculture feeds and fuels and provides clothing for people 
around the world, I know it is tough in the rural agriculture 
communities. I grew up on a family farm. In fact, my mom still 
lives on the farm that we have back in Kansas. And farmers have 
benefited for more than a century with technological advances 
trying to help provide that food and the benefits for the 
world.
    Tax Cuts and Jobs Act recognizes how valuable that 
innovation was, and I know Americans have invented everything 
from air-conditioners to zippers, so innovation is strong and 
part of our way of life here. And we want to make sure we 
continue to encourage that.
    I am chairing the Innovation Tax Team as we go in and look 
at preparations for next year, and we want to make sure that we 
continue to have a tax code that actually provides and 
encourages our ability to create an event and come up with new 
ideas that actually make the world a better place.
    Mrs. Dewalt, there is no question that countries like 
China, which actually provides 10 times the tax credit of 
research and development now than the United States does, and 
they are starting to gain--actually, they have closed the gap 
on the United States in terms of the amount of research and 
development done there. Can you share your thoughts on what the 
United States needs to do to be a global leader in innovation?
    Mrs. DEWALT. Well, I think TCJA went a long way with the 
provisions that you mentioned, the expensing, R&D focused, 
bonus depreciation, lower tax rate, competitive--globally 
competitive tax rate. In The Home Depot's view, it certainly 
has been the most impactful to us to encourage--to allow us to 
invest; not only to encourage but to allow us to invest further 
in the U.S. We are primarily U.S. We have 2,000 locations here 
in the U.S. that, you know, serve all communities, large and 
small. And so the ability to have a competitive rate in the 
United States, encouraging companies like ours to continue and 
to increase investments as we have, and to encourage companies, 
you know, other companies to invest and innovate in the U.S.
    So I would say that there are some incredibly powerful 
provisions in TCJA that encourage investment of all kinds in 
the U.S., innovation and otherwise.
    Mr. ESTES. Thank you for that.
    And as you noted, you know, the 21 percent is only a 
portion of the taxes you pay. That is the federal portion. And 
that, as you said in your remarks, that you pay 24 to 25 
percent, which actually puts us slightly above the developed 
world in terms of the tax rate still, but it makes us 
competitive in terms of being able to do that.
    So we want to make sure that we continue to have the value 
out of that tax code that encourages businesses to be 
successful here.
    Even with the lower tax code--the tax rate at the federal 
level, we have seen corporate tax rates increase and tax 
revenue increase. We have seen the royalty tax increase by over 
$200 billion over the last 7 years, because more research and 
development, more intellectual property was based in the United 
States and that we were able to actually benefit from that as 
far as federal tax receipts as well.
    So I know I am out of time here, but I just want to thank 
all of you for being here, being able to talk about the 
positive aspects of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act on each of you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Ms. Tenney is recognized.
    Ms. TENNEY. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And thank you to all the witnesses and everyone for being 
here. This is quite an incredible experience to be at the Iowa 
State Fair.
    And I am from Upstate New York, and we have--my district, 
the newly conceived 24th District, is actually the largest 
agricultural district in the Northeast, including the largest 
dairy district. So it is very different than New York City 
where my colleague, Nicole Malliotakis, lives.
    But Zach Nunn said, so you are basically the Iowa of New 
York. So, yeah, in a way we are. We have an incredible output 
with ag, and it is really important in our district. But I am 
also a small business owner, so I know what it is like to 
struggle to make payroll, to deal with taxes and all those 
things.
    And I also want to just--I mean, I think it is just 
incredible that you are all here with such a different 
perspective. Every one of you has a small business perspective, 
a large business perspective, the child care perspective. But 
you are all talking about the one thing that changed upstate 
New York in that we come from the highest taxed state is the 
Tax Cuts and Jobs Act. It was incredible. I voted for it. And 
it was always this stunning, oh, my gosh, I can't believe you 
are voting for that from New York.
    Most of the businesses, as Ms. Pol said, in our communities 
are driven by small business owners, including our farmers. And 
so we are just grateful to all of you for putting it in your 
words exactly what the catastrophic results could be if we 
don't continue with these issues.
    But I wanted to just first start with Ms. Pol. And you are 
an NFIB member, as we are. My business is over 40 years as 
NFIB. They put out great data and great statistics and advocate 
well for our small business community because we don't have 
some of the larger issues. But you talked about 199A, if it 
should expire.
    Could you tell me just briefly what the operational changes 
you would have to make in the business if that were to happen?
    Ms. POL. Well, currently I think what we would do is stop 
investing. You know, we wouldn't be able to expense out the 
equipment. You know, we wouldn't have the extra money to 
reinvest into our employees and anything else that we wanted to 
pursue.
    Ms. TENNEY. Well, when you stop investing, you are 
coasting, and that means you are going downhill. That means you 
are not preparing for the future.
    Thank you.
    And I just want to move a little bit to something a couple 
of you touched on, especially, Mr. Sukup, you talked about 
this, as well as Mrs. Dewalt. I raised my son as a single 
parent, but I also took care of my parents who were across the 
street with serious health conditions, and so I am part of that 
sandwich generation. And it was always a struggle to find 
daycare and for parents--both men and women. It depends on who 
stays home, but now it is a mixed opportunity.
    You know, we talked about like the--some of the things that 
we worked on. I worked on a bill called the PACE Act, and that 
is Promoting Affordable Childcare for Everyone, and giving 
employers the opportunity to invest.
    And if you could just touch briefly on if it would help you 
to get an additional tax credit or benefit to help with child 
care facilities right on your properties. And maybe you could 
touch on that as well, Mrs. Dewalt.
    Mr. SUKUP. Well, right now we are in the process, we are 
hoping to open October 1, to put a 112-space child care 
facility right across the street from our company. Right now it 
looks like about 40 of our employees will take advantage of 
that. And it is just critical to working families. You know, 
some of the families both are working, whether for us or down 
the road at Mason City or another community business. And, you 
know, if there are families that have two of them in child 
care, it is just, you know, astronomical.
    And then, again, that sort of ties into the estate tax. I 
don't see that I would have really said, yes, let's go do it. 
But the third generation, daughter Emily, comes to Sheffield 
every day, and she goes, this is important to families. Let's 
do it.
    Ms. TENNEY. Yeah, I would have loved to have that child 
care option at my office. I had to take that risk of leaving my 
son somewhere and not knowing what he was going to be--he 
always survived somehow when I got back. But I know the fear of 
families. They want to stick together, especially these days.
    But I know, Mrs. Dewalt, you mentioned something on this 
same as the child care, but would an increase in a little bit 
more of a benefit for child care deductibility and also maybe 
dependent care deductibility for people like me and others who 
have a dependent child or family member, maybe a parent that 
they have to take care of, is that something that if we 
increase that benefit, would that be beneficial to your 
employees?
    Mrs. DEWALT. Thank you for the question.
    And certainly it most likely would benefit our associates. 
You know, benefits that support working families are very 
important to us. I mentioned, you know, the 400,000 associates 
we have. Most of those are front line in our stores, in our 
distribution centers. So certainly policies that support 
working families would benefit our associate population.
    Ms. TENNEY. Thank you.
    Well, I appreciate that. It is really incredible that you 
are all talk--these are really important issues. I just want to 
say one shout-out to one of the counties. I just went to the 
Wyoming County Fair in upstate New York. The county 
legislature--or the county supervisors do a wonderful thing. 
They actually hold a meeting, their August meeting at their 
county fair. And it is filled with all kinds of people out 
there to see their government in action. So shout-out to Becky 
Ryan, the supervisor.
    And thank you, Chairman Smith, for doing this out in Iowa. 
We appreciate it.
    Thanks. I yield back.
    Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
    Ms. Malliotakis, the other lady from New York.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    We have traveled to many parts of the country hearing from 
people like you, and, you know, whether you are in Iowa, 
whether you are in my home State of New York, I mean, the 
reality is that the high inflation, the high interest rates, 
the anti-energy policies of the Biden-Harris administration are 
crushing American families and American businesses.
    Sixty-six percent of Americans say they are living paycheck 
to paycheck. And if they think it is hard now, that is nothing 
compared to what it will be like if Democrats have their way 
and allow the provisions that we are discussing today from the 
Tax Cuts and Jobs Act enacted by President Trump, if they allow 
that to expire in 2025.
    Under TCJA, on average, Americans with less than 100k in 
income got an average of 16 percent in a tax cut. We saw the 
creation of millions of jobs, record low employment for African 
Americans, for Hispanics, for women, for veterans. We saw the 
middle-class wages across this country lifted, and we saw the 
doubling of the standard deduction, which was a major credit 
for working families, and also the doubling of the Child Tax 
Credit for working families, lifting six million Americans out 
of poverty. And important to New Yorkers, it got rid of the 
alternative minimum tax for millions of middle-class families.
    Last June, I introduced legislation to increase the 
standard deduction by an additional $2,000 for single filers 
and $4,000 for married couples. If it were law today, families 
would benefit with a $33,200 tax deduction in 2024.
    And while I want to increase it, sadly, Kamala Harris, the 
Democrats, they have said that they want to get rid of--they 
actually want to cut our deduction in half. They want to go 
back to what it was before we had this critical tax relief.
    So I will start with Sarah. As a family, what would the 
standard deduction being increased even further mean for a 
family like yours?
    Mrs. CURRY. Well, I think first and foremost--thank you for 
the question--reducing the standard deduction would negatively 
impact my family because it would raise my taxable income both 
at the federal and the state level. We experienced benefits 
from tax simplicity. I didn't have to have receipts, you know, 
all over the floor trying to itemize all this stuff trying to 
save a buck. We were able to take the standard.
    But, again, Iowa and many states use the federal taxable 
income as the starting point for state taxes owed. And so with 
a reduction in the federal standard deduction, my state taxes 
will also go up. So I am not going to get hit once with this 
tax increase, I am going to get hit multiple times over.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. That is right. And that is exactly why I 
wanted to see the standard deduction not only kept but enhanced 
to protect more middle-class families, because that is who 
really benefits from it.
    And with that said, the alternative minimum tax, do you 
have an opinion if that were to be added back?
    Mrs. CURRY. Again, you know, any tax that is brought back 
that is hurting American families and taking more of our earned 
money away from us so that we can't spend it on our families 
and invest in our homes and our children is a bad thing.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Well, that is exactly what, sadly, Kamala 
Harris and the Democrats have said they intend to do. $7 
trillion is what my colleague said in tax increases is what 
they are proposing.
    But I also--you know, I don't have a farm in my district, 
but my constituents do eat, and they use energy. And so the 
Biden-Harris tax and energy policies have been crushing 
domestic energy production. It is driving up the cost of 
everything, I believe, right.
    So can you talk as farmers about how energy drives up the 
cost of food for the people I represent in New York and also 
maybe want to touch on some of the renewable energy sources 
that we can derive from both corn--and I did visit a facility 
where there was renewable natural gas from food waste, from cow 
manure, and I thought that was really interesting. It is 
cleaner. It is more efficient. It is more affordable than 
these, you know, EVs that they are trying to push us on through 
all these incentives that go to Communist China.
    Would you like to comment on that?
    Ms. RIESSEN. Absolutely. So just to--let's talk about EVs 
for a moment. I know they are trying to do that to tractors. 
And let me tell you, that is definitely not going to work. It 
is going to increase the weight of that tractor by three to 
four times. It is going to increase the price of that tractor 
by that exact same amount. And then, oh, by the way, in the 
wintertime, 60 below, they don't start.
    And getting back to your being able to use other--besides 
the biofuels, to use the methane, and just so you know, there 
is more landfill methane given off than any other source in the 
United States, so there is a place to tap.
    But when it comes to using the other fuels, first of all, 
right now the ethanol is available, and we can put it right 
into the gas tank. We are pushing for the Next Gen Fuels Act to 
be passed to increase those amounts of ethanol to be put in 
fuel tanks. So--and for every percent of--this is from the 
American Lung Association. So for every percent of ethanol that 
we are able to put into that fuel tank, we are also reducing 
our healthcare costs because we are taking particulates out of 
the air.
    So especially as I--and I have been to New York, and it is 
amazing, but it is not Iowa. But, anyway, just the total amount 
of particulates in the air just due to the pollution,.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Okay. And, Mr. Sukup, I don't know if you 
wanted to add to that.
    But I did have one small question after this, if you will, 
Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. SUKUP. No, the biofuels are critical for the--supplying 
us across the U.S., energy efficiency and self-sustainable here 
in the U.S., and that is why we have to increase. It lowers 
prices throughout. You know, going back 4 years, we were a 
dollar lower on gasoline, and yet ethanol was practical and 
making money.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Now, I am a New Yorker, first time in 
Iowa, first time at the State Fair, so a last question, very 
important question, in my opinion, to wrap up the hearing here. 
What is the food that I should try today?
    Go down the line. Name one food, please.
    Ms. RIESSEN. Pork chop on a stick.
    Mrs. DEWALT. Well, I am smelling bacon right now, so 
whatever that smell is, try that. That smells great.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. All right.
    Mrs. Curry.
    Mrs. CURRY. The deep-fried pickle with the ranch dressing.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. All right.
    Ms. RIESSEN. Sorry. Pork chop or a steak.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Okay. You are the second person to tell me 
that.
    Mr. SUKUP. Corn dog.
    Ms. POL. The deep fat fried lobster on a stick.
    Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. All right. Thank you.
    Chairman SMITH. I want to thank the Iowa delegation for 
having us. I want to thank you, Congressman Feenstra, for being 
a stellar member of the Ways and Means Committee and for 
bringing us up here. I want to thank the Iowa State 
Fairgrounds. And I want to thank each and every one of you all 
for your great ideas and the policy solutions that hopefully we 
can move towards. I think that every member of this committee 
will be leaving the Iowa State Fair with additional great ideas 
on the Tax Code but also probably higher cholesterol.
    But with that, please be advised that members have 2 weeks 
to submit written questions to be answered later in writing. 
Those questions and your answers will be made part of the 
formal hearing record.
    And with that, the committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:56 a.m., Central, the committee was 
adjourned.]

      

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