`[Senate Hearing 118-493]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                       S. Hrg. 118-493

                      A REVIEW OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY 
                             SUPPLEMENTAL REQUEST

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

            COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                            SPECIAL HEARING

                    OCTOBER 31, 2023--WASHINGTON, DC

                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations
         
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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
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                      COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS

                    PATTY MURRAY, Washington, Chair
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois          SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Vice 
JACK REED, Rhode Island                  Chair
JON TESTER, Montana                  MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire        LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon                 LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       JERRY MORAN, Kansas
BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii                 JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin             JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut      SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West 
JOE MANCHIN, III, West Virginia          Virginia
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland           JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico          CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
GARY PETERS, Michigan                BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              KATIE BRITT, Alabama
                                     MARCO RUBIO, Florida
                                     DEB FISCHER, Nebraska

                     Evan D. Schatz, Staff Director
              Elizabeth McDonnell, Minority Staff Director
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Opening Statement of Chair Patty Murray..........................     1
Statement of Vice Chair Susan M. Collins.........................     4
Statement of Hon. Antony J. Blinken, Secretary, U.S. Department 
  of State.......................................................     6
    Prepared Statement...........................................    10
Statement of Hon. Lloyd J. Austin III, Secretary, U.S. Department 
  of Defense.....................................................    11
    Prepared Statement...........................................    13
Additional Committee Questions...................................    76
    Questions Submitted to Hon. Antony J. Blinken:
        Questions Submitted by:
            Senator Jeanne Shaheen...............................    76
            Senator Jeff Merkely.................................    76
            Senator Joe Manchin..................................    77
            Senator Gary Peters..................................    78
            Vice Chair Susan M. Collins..........................    79
            Senator Lisa Murkowski...............................    79
            Senator John Boozman.................................    80
            Senator Shelley Moore Capito.........................    81
            Senator Bill Hagerty.................................    82
    Questions Submitted to Hon. Lloyd J. Austin III:
        Questions Submitted by Senator Joe Manchin...............    83
Conclusion of Hearing............................................    85

 
         A REVIEW OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY SUPPLEMENTAL REQUEST

                              ----------                              


                       TUESDAY, OCTOBER 31, 2023

                                       U.S. Senate,
                               Committee on Appropriations,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The committee met at 9:37 a.m. in room SD-106, Dirksen 
Senate Office Building, Hon. Patty Murray (chair) presiding.
    Present: Senators Murray, Durbin, Reed, Tester, Shaheen, 
Merkley, Coons, Schatz, Baldwin, Murphy, Manchin, Van Hollen, 
Heinrich, Peters, Sinema, Collins, Murkowski, Graham, Moran, 
Hoeven, Boozman, Capito, Kennedy, Hyde-Smith, Hagerty, Britt, 
Rubio, and Fischer.


                opening statement of chair patty murray


    Chair Murray. Good morning. This hearing of the Senate 
Appropriations Committee will please come to order. We are here 
today to discuss the national security components of the 
President's supplemental funding request.
    We are glad to have Secretary Austin and Secretary Blinken 
with us to talk about the challenges we are seeing around the 
world and the urgency of providing the necessary resources to 
meet these challenges, support our allies, and make the world 
and our country safer.
    At our first full committee hearing earlier this year on 
outcompeting China, both Secretaries made a strong case for why 
passing our full-year appropriations bills with robust 
investments in America and avoiding perpetual CRs (continuing 
resolutions) and devastating cuts, is so crucial to keeping our 
Nation competitive on the world stage. As the two of you return 
to this committee, I think every member on this dais 
understands and takes to heart many of the messages you left 
with us at the last hearing.
    These are unprecedented and difficult times, and American 
leadership and support will be critical as we face the many 
threats and challenges we will discuss today. That is why 
Congress must come together in a bipartisan fashion to act 
decisively and purposely. This is not a time to punt American 
leadership or punt on funding agencies critical to these 
efforts and to American families. If we let politics and 
division drive us away from this mission, I worry about where 
we will stand for years to come. So I hope this committee can 
continue to lead the way with thoughtful, swift, bipartisan 
action that keeps your message here today in mind. Thank you 
both for joining us again.
    We are at a precarious moment across the globe. Ukraine is 
continuing its courageous resistance against Putin's bloody 
invasion, and Israel is reeling from a horrific terrorist 
attack by Hamas, a vicious attack that none of us will ever 
forget. Now, it is often the innocent that suffer most in war. 
So of course, there are also urgent humanitarian needs, 
including aid for the Ukrainian people and the countries caring 
for those displaced by Putin's war, and aid for Palestinian 
civilians in Gaza. It is also a humanitarian imperative that 
Hamas release the hostages it took during its violent attack.
    And of course, Putin's invasion has also severely disrupted 
food supply chains around the world, leaving a serious crisis 
of global hunger in its wake. In the Indo-Pacific, our friends 
and partners face growing threats and aggression, particularly 
from the Chinese Government. In short, the world is on edge, 
and how the U.S. wields its leadership will be a critical 
factor in determining what happens next. Now is a time for 
serious, sober discussion, not partisanship or political show.
    This hearing is a crucial opportunity for us to make sure 
we are taking a full view of this moment, meeting immediate 
requirements while planning for the long term, and providing 
the resources necessary to make the world safer for America and 
its allies. If we are going to get this right, we have to 
understand how these conflicts are developing today and what 
our strategy is for the future. We have to appreciate the 
nuances that differentiate each of these challenges, as well as 
the ways in which they are all interconnected. We have to see 
the big picture without losing sight of the human reality on 
the ground, the fact that in the middle of every conflict are 
civilians, residents displaced from their homes, hostages torn 
from their families, people facing obstacles getting basic 
medical services, and kids and families who desperately need 
food and water. And we have to be able to recognize the 
complexity of these issues while holding fast to the simple, 
actionable truths that can guide our work.
    For me, that means America must stand strong by our allies. 
Dictators cannot be allowed to invade sovereign democracies, 
terrorism cannot be tolerated, and we cannot ignore the 
humanity and the cries for help from civilians who are caught 
in the middle of conflict and crossfire, who we must protect.
    It is a tall order, but the Biden administration's national 
security supplemental request offers us a useful blueprint. And 
Vice Chair Collins and I are working, right now, to craft 
strong bipartisan legislation that meets the national security 
priorities that the President laid out. That means a package 
that provides support to the Ukrainians who are at a crucial 
point in their fight to protect their sovereignty and the end 
of the butchery of Vladimir Putin's brutal invasion, one that 
makes clear to other countries looking to copy Putin's 
aggression, that they will fail, and one that replenishes DOD's 
stockpiles as well and bolsters our domestic manufacturing that 
is crucial to ensure we have secure supply chains when it comes 
to our Nation's defense, and that after we send Ukraine 
weapons, we are replacing our stocks with modern American-made 
arms.
    And let us be clear, huge super majorities in the House and 
Senate favor more support for Ukraine, so getting this funding 
across the finish line should not be controversial. Meeting 
this moment also means a package that ensures we stand with 
Israel as it works to protect its people in the wake of the 
horrific Hamas attack, and deter additional terrorist threats, 
and one that helps us prevent further escalation of violence in 
the region and address humanitarian needs.
    It means a package that strengthens our presence and 
supports our allies in the Indo-Pacific, and helps us keep pace 
as the Chinese Government works aggressively to expand its 
footprint in the region. And of course, it also means a package 
that continues our long-standing and all-important tradition of 
the U.S. leading the global humanitarian response, and 
delivering vital humanitarian aid to save lives in places that 
are being torn apart by conflict, whether they are in Ukraine, 
or Israel, or Gaza, we cannot lose sight of the needs of 
civilians whose lives have been upended by war and violence 
around them. Making sure people have food, water, and medical 
care is not just the right and moral thing to do, it also 
promotes long-term stability and security, combating 
hopelessness that can spiral into new threats.
    Let me also say this, as someone who voted against the Iraq 
War, I have been heartened to see the President urge our allies 
in Israel not to fall subject to so many of the same mistakes 
we saw following the 9/11 terrorist attacks. It is an important 
message for the President and our country to deliver as a 
friend of Israel, to stay clear-eyed and strategic in the 
pursuit of justice. Every country has an obligation to protect 
innocent life and abide by international law, especially during 
times of conflict.
    I am glad that the Biden administration is sending that 
message, and I strongly support their robust efforts to ensure 
further access to humanitarian relief for the civilians of 
Gaza.
    Finally, make no mistake, we need to address all of these 
priorities as part of one package because the reality is these 
issues are all connected, and they are all urgent. The Chinese 
Government is watching how we respond to Putin's aggression in 
Ukraine. Putin is hoping the Hamas attack will give him an 
opening and distract the world from aiding Ukraine against his 
brutal invasion, and all of our adversaries are watching 
closely to see whether we have the vision to recognize how 
these crises are related, and the resolve to come together and 
respond forcefully to them.
    Our adversaries are cheering for dysfunction. So let us 
instead show them unity. Let us show them the strength of 
democracy by passing a robust, bipartisan national security 
package.
    And before I turn it over to Vice Chair Collins, let me 
just say, while we are focused on the global challenges at this 
hearing, we should also address the needs here at home: the 
childcare crisis, relief for our communities who have been 
struck by disaster, the fentanyl crisis, the needs at our 
southern border, and more. I am continuing to discuss a 
separate hearing to address those issues with my colleagues. I 
know that it is critical to many of us here, and next week we 
will have an opportunity to discuss these issues with Secretary 
Mayorkas and Secretary Becerra at a hearing in front of this 
committee on November 7th.
    Bottom line, we face a number of urgent national security 
issues and challenges here at home. President Biden has 
submitted requests for much-needed supplemental funding to 
address these priorities. I urge my colleagues on both sides to 
work with me on all of these urgent issues. And if we can pass 
our domestic priorities right alongside our national security 
priorities, we absolutely should. After all, we are the United 
States of America. We can stand with our allies around the 
world and tackle the challenges facing our families here at 
home at the same time.
    Now, I am glad we are holding this hearing today to discuss 
the vital national security request the President has submitted 
to Congress, and I look forward to a thoughtful discussion 
about what is needed to fight and deter aggression from 
authoritarian leaders, tackle terrorist threats, and protect 
civilians, and about what is at stake for America's own 
security and future if we fail to stand with our friends across 
the globe and lead.
    Thank you. And with that, I will turn it over to Vice Chair 
Collins.


                statement of vice chair susan m. collins


    Vice Chair Collins. Thank you, Chair Murray, for holding 
this important hearing. Let me begin by expressing my 
appreciation to Secretary Blinken and Secretary Austin for 
joining us today to discuss the President's national security 
supplemental funding request. I had hoped that Secretary 
Mayorkas also would be here, but he is testifying this morning 
before another Senate committee.
    I very much appreciate that the Chair has scheduled an 
opportunity next week for Secretary Mayorkas to come before us 
and describe what is needed in the supplemental to provide 
effective border security to stem the flood of illegal 
migrants, and fentanyl crossing into the United States. Through 
the end of fiscal year, as of September 30th, there were a 
record 2.5 million encounters at our Southwest border. This 
real threat to our homeland must also be addressed.
    The collective threats that the United States faces from an 
aggressive Iran and its proxies and imperialist Russia and a 
hegemonic China are also challenges that require our attention 
and cooperation from our allies. Adversaries in the Middle East 
are launching attacks not only against our ally, Israel, but 
also against American troops in Syria and Iraq. In Ukraine, the 
determined patriots, backed by the United States, the European 
Union, Japan, Australia, and others continue to battle Putin's 
brutal and unprovoked invasion. In Asia, China's dangerous game 
of brinkmanship is targeting our aircraft flying in the region, 
rattling sabers at Taiwan, and physically challenging claims of 
the Philippines and Vietnam in the South China Sea.
    Some have argued for decoupling funding to address these 
threats and focusing only on the Iranian-backed terrorists who 
massacred so many Israelis on October 7th. We must recognize 
that our national security interests are being aggressively 
challenged by all these authoritarian actors in an effort to 
dismantle the international order that we established following 
World War II.
    Iran has been Russia's accomplice in Ukraine through the 
export of weapons and drones that terrorize Ukrainian 
civilians. Just last week, Russia hosted Hamas and Iranian 
leadership where Hamas praised Russia's criticism of Israeli's 
actions to defend itself following the recent terrorist 
attacks. China refuses to condemn either Russia's second 
invasion of Ukraine or Hamas' attacks, despite both having 
committed war crimes targeting civilians and both having stolen 
children from their families.
    If we fail to thwart these efforts, there will be dire 
consequences that will jeopardize our national security. The 
metric by which I will scrutinize the funding proposed by the 
administration's request is simple: Does it make America more 
secure or not?
    Let me offer a few reflections. When I was in Israel with 
Senator Graham, Senator Cardin, and several other Senators last 
week, we met with families whose loved ones, including very 
young children, are being held hostage by Hamas.
    During the October 7th terrorist attacks, parents were 
murdered in front of their children. The actions of Hamas are 
nothing less than evil. And we must stand by our friend, 
Israel, the only true democracy in the Middle East.
    Like Israel, Ukraine was the victim of an unprovoked 
attacked by a repeat violent offender. The United States, 
albeit slower than many of us would have liked, stepped in with 
assistance for Ukraine to help repel Russian's battlefield 
advances. Let us review what has happened since we have helped 
Ukraine in its defense against Russia's second invasion. No 
U.S. soldiers have lost their fighting in Ukraine; our 
adversary, Russia, is weaker; NATO (North Atlantic Treaty 
Organization) is stronger than ever; Finland has joined the 
alliance; and I expect that Sweden will do the same soon. Each 
of these outcomes is in America's interest.
    Finally, the supplemental request includes more than $30 
billion to replenish our military's weapons stockpiles and 
invest in and strengthen the U.S. defense industrial base in 
many States. The requested funding will refill the stockpiles 
and increase the production capacity of key munitions in 
greatest demand. None of this funding goes overseas or to 
another country. It makes America stronger by modernizing our 
arsenal of democracy, right here in our country, and improving 
the readiness of the U.S. military to deter any adversary 
seeking to harm the United States.
    Secretary Blinken and Secretary Austin, we look forward to 
hearing your specific justifications. Before we turn to your 
opening statements, let me reiterate that Chair Murray and I 
want to enact all 12 appropriations bills, including the State 
Foreign Ops bill and the Defense Appropriations. As former 
Secretary of Defense, Bob Gates, once told me: The most 
important action Congress can take to bolster our national 
security is to pass full-year appropriations bills to avoid the 
harm to military readiness that comes from short-term funding, 
patches, or sequestration. Secretary Austin, I hope that you 
will comment on that in your opening remarks.
    Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chair Murray. Thank you, Vice Chair Collins. And before I 
introduce our witnesses and move to testimony, I want to take a 
moment to welcome someone else today, our newest member of the 
committee. Senator Sinema is someone who truly knows how to 
work with Members on both sides of the aisle. I am sure she 
will be a strong voice for our constituents. Welcome to our 
committee.
    Vice Chair Collins. Madam Chair, if I may echo your welcome 
to Senator Sinema. We have worked very closely on many bills, 
and I know she is going to be a great addition to our 
committee.
    Chair Murray. Thank you. Now, back to the business at hand, 
I am very pleased to welcome Secretary of State, Antony 
Blinken, and Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin. Thank you both 
for taking the time today to be with us and to answer our 
questions.
    We will now start with opening remarks. And Secretary 
Blinken, I will begin with you.
STATEMENT OF HON. ANTONY J. BLINKEN, SECRETARY, U.S. 
            DEPARTMENT OF STATE
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you very much, Chair Murray, Vice 
Chair Collins, distinguished Members of the Appropriations 
Committee, thank you for this opportunity to testify before you 
today.
    [Anti-war protest interruption.]
    Chair Murray. I do recognize that people feel very 
passionately, but I ask that we have order in this hearing 
room, and respect our speakers. And we will move forward with 
the hearing, and allow the people here, and the American people 
to hear from their witnesses.
    Senator (sic) Blinken.
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you, Chair. Two-and-a-half years 
ago, our adversaries assessed that the United States was 
becoming permanently divided at home, alienated from our 
allies, partners around the world, working together, we have 
demonstrated that America's resilience, its strength and 
leadership in world remain unmatched. We have made historic 
investments in the source of America's strength at home, our 
democracy, our infrastructure, our economic and technologic 
competitors. We invested in the modernization of our Military, 
and we have invested in our greatest strategic asset abroad, 
our network of allies and partners, which is growing larger, 
stronger, more united, and more capable than ever.
    We are standing up for our interests and values, not 
shrinking back. Not in the face of Russia's aggression against 
Ukraine, not in the face of intensifying strategies competition 
in the Indo-Pacific and around the world.
    [Anti-war protest interruption.]
    Chair Murray. If the witness will suspend. And I ask that 
everyone, again, respect this hearing. We will suspend until 
the room is cleared.
    [Pause.]
    Chair Murray. Thank you, Senator (sic) Blinken, if you can 
continue, please.
    Secretary Blinken. As I said we are standing up for our 
interests and values, not shrinking back, not in the face of 
Russia's aggression against Ukraine, not in the face of 
intensifying competition in Indo-Pacific, and around the world, 
not in the face of terrorism and its state sponsors. And 
America does not stand alone. We have built extraordinary 
coalitions with friends, who carry their share of the burden, 
which I am happy to come back to.
    Our adversaries and competitors alike, recognize that our 
strategies are working, and they continue to do everything they 
can to disrupt us. We now stand at a moment where many are, 
again, making the bet that we are too divided; we are too 
distracted at home to stay the course. That is what is at stake 
with President Biden's National Security Supplemental Funding 
Request.
    The President's request would secure the urgent resources 
that we need to continue to lead. Secretary Austin and I 
believed it important for us to be here, together, today 
because in this mission as in so much that we do to advance 
America's national security, our defense, our diplomacy, our 
development, must work hand-in-hand.
    [Anti-war protest interruption.]
    Chair Murray. The committee will suspend. And again, I 
appreciate that people feel passionately about these issues. I 
would ask that you respect our witnesses and our committee 
Members and allow the American people to hear their testimony. 
We will pause until the room is cleared.
    Thank you, Secretary Blinken, if you can continue, please.
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you, Chair. The President's 
funding request has four key elements. First, it provides for 
our enduring support to Israel and Ukraine, two democracies 
under brutal assault by actors determined to wipe their nations 
off the map. It will ensure that Israel can continue to defend 
its people by building on the diplomatic, security, and 
intelligence support that the United States has surged since 
Hamas' appalling slaughter. I know that several----
    [Anti-war protest interruption.]
    Chair Murray. The committee will suspend. And I again ask 
that those in the audience respect the people in the room and 
allow us to continue the hearing. The hearing will suspend 
until the disruption is removed.
    Thank you, Secretary Blinken. If you can continue, please.
    Secretary Blinken. So I was saying, I know that several 
committee members have traveled to Israel over the last 3 
weeks. They have heard directly from Israeli officials, what 
they need to defend their people and prevent another attack 
like this one. And that is exactly what the supplemental 
provides, with $3.7 billion for security needs, including to 
help Israel bolster its air and missile defense systems. The 
supplemental also requests additional authority to draw down 
DOD stocks and enhances the security of our Embassy.
    As President Biden has made clear from the outset, while 
Israel has the right, indeed it has the obligation to defend 
itself, the way it does so matters. In our discussions with the 
Israeli government, the President and I have both stressed the 
need for Israel to operate by the rule of----
    [Anti-war protest interruption.]
    Chair Murray. The committee will suspend.
    Secretary Blinken, you may continue.
    Chair Murray. Thank you, Chair. So I was saying, the 
President and I both stressed in our conversations with the 
Israeli government the need for Israel to operate by the law of 
war and in accordance with international humanitarian law and 
to take all possible measures to avoid civilian casualties.
    For Ukraine, President Biden is requesting $16.3 billion to 
supply Ukraine's defense, without which Russia will move 
quickly to try to seize and exploit any possible opening, and 
to ensure that Ukraine can sustain the economic base and 
recovery that its war effort depends on. This funding will not 
only rebuild Ukraine's economy and offset the damage wrought by 
Russia, but it will also help to reimagine it: Investing in new 
industries, infrastructure, and supply chains connected to 
Europe and to the world, secure and resilient clean energy, 
anti-corruption bodies, civil society, media, to be strong 
enough to deter and defend against aggressors beyond its 
borders, Ukraine needs a resilient economy and a vibrant 
democracy within its borders.
    Since Russia launched this war, the robust funding 
supported by Congress has enabled the people of Ukraine in 
their courageous fight to defend their nation. It has helped 
make sure that Russia's invasion and strategic----
    [Anti-war protest interruption.]
    Chair Murray. The committee will suspend.
    Thank you. And before I turn back over to you, Secretary 
Blinken, I just really want to thank the Capitol Police for 
their very calm and professional manner. We all appreciate it.
    Secretary Blinken, can you please continue? Thank you.
    Secretary Blinken. So to continue, since Russia launched 
this war, the robust funding provided by Congress has enabled 
the people of Ukraine in their courageous fight to defend their 
nation. It has helped make sure that Russia's invasion is a 
strategic debacle, making it weaker in nearly every way. And it 
has rallied the world in defense of Ukraine and of the 
principles at the heart of the United Nations Charter, 
sovereignty, territorial independence, integrity--excuse me--
and independence. Our partners are making significant 
contributions to share the burden of assistance. Turning our 
backs on their efforts would have lasting implications for our 
own security and our own standing in the world.
    The conflicts in Ukraine and the Middle East have clear 
links, as both the Chair and Vice Chair have noted. Since we 
cut off Russia's traditional means of supplying its military, 
it has turned more and more to Iran for assistance. In return, 
Moscow has supplied Iran with increasingly advanced military 
technology, which poses a threat to Israel's security. Allowing 
Russia to prevail, with Iran's support, will simply embolden 
both Moscow and Iran.
    Second, this funding will enable us to tackle grave 
humanitarian needs created by autocrats and terrorists, as well 
as by conflict and natural disasters in Ukraine, in Gaza, in 
Sudan, in Armenia, and other places around the world. Food, 
water, medicine, and other essential humanitarian assistance 
for civilians must be able to flow into Gaza. Civilians must be 
able to stay out of harm's way, a task that is made even more 
difficult as Hamas uses civilians as human shields, and 
humanitarian pauses must be considered.
    Helping prevent a worsening humanitarian catastrophe aligns 
with our Nation's most deeply held principles, including our 
belief that every civilian life is equally valuable, equally 
worthy of protection. Without swift and sustained humanitarian 
relief, the conflict is much more likely to spread, suffering 
will grow, and Hamas and its sponsors will benefit by 
fashioning themselves as the saviors of the very desperation 
that they created.
    Humanitarian assistance is also vital to Israel's security. 
Providing immediate aid and protection for Palestinian 
civilians in this conflict is a necessary foundation for 
finding partners in Gaza who have a different vision for the 
future than Hamas, and who are willing to help make it real.
    Third, this funding is critical to out-competing our 
strategic rivals. This request will bolster deterrence. It will 
support our allies and partners in the Indo-Pacific to address 
threats from an increasingly assertive PRC (People's Republic 
of China) and to meet emerging challenges. It will uphold our 
commitment to our allies, including under our trilateral 
security partnership with Australia and the United Kingdom, 
AUKUS. And it will help countries transition to the military 
and defense equipment that is made in America.
    The President's request also includes resources for the 
World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to provide 
alternatives to China's coercive financing for our partners in 
the developing world. It will also help ease the impact of 
spillovers of Russia's war on food and energy security for the 
world's most vulnerable. The proposed $2 billion appropriation 
and requested authorizations would generate almost $50 billion 
in additional development funding capacity for the World Bank 
and the IMF, an enormous return on our investment, 
demonstrating U.S. leadership in meeting urgent global 
challenges.
    Fourth and finally, the supplemental will make critical 
investments to protect the security of Americans here at home. 
That includes addressing the hemispheric challenge of irregular 
migration, strengthening our defense industrial base to ensure 
our military continues to be ready, capable, and the best-
equipped fighting force in the world, and that we remain the 
arsenal for democracy. More than $50 billion of the security 
systems funding will replenish U.S. military stocks, strengthen 
our defense industrial base, and will be spent through American 
businesses. Each of these investments work together to achieve 
our mission: a stronger, safer, brighter future where America 
can lead from a position of strength. Let us come together and 
demonstrate to one another and to the world that we can rise to 
this moment.
    I also hear very much the passions expressed in this room 
and outside this room. All of us are committed to the 
protection of civilian life. All of us know the suffering that 
is taking place as we speak. All of us are determined to see it 
end. But all of us know the imperative of standing up with our 
allies and partners when their security, when their democracies 
are threatened. That is what is happening now. We stand 
resolutely with them even as we stand resolutely for the 
protection of innocent civilians.
    Before I close, I would just like to thank Senators for 
their vote today to send the President's ambassadorial nominee, 
Jack Lew, to Israel at this critical time. And I encourage the 
Senate to do the same for the 26 other nominees waiting for 
their vote.
    Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    [The statement follows:]

              Prepared Statement of Hon. Antony J. Blinken
    Chair Murray, Vice Chair Collins, distinguished members of the 
Appropriations Committee: thank you for the opportunity to testify 
before you today.
    Two and a half years ago, our adversaries assessed the United 
States was becoming permanently divided at home, and alienated from our 
allies and partners abroad. Working together, we have demonstrated that 
America's resilience, strength, and leadership in the world remain 
unmatched.
    We've made historic investments in the sources of America's 
strength at home: our democracy, infrastructure, and economic and 
technological competitiveness. We've invested in the modernization of 
our military. And we've invested in our greatest strategic asset 
abroad: our network of allies and partners, which is growing larger, 
stronger, more united, and more capable than ever.
    We're standing up for our interests and values--not shrinking back. 
Not in the face of Russia's aggression against Ukraine. Not in the face 
of intensifying strategic competition in the Indo-Pacific and around 
the world. Not in the face of terrorism and its state sponsors. And 
America does not stand alone: we've built extraordinary coalitions with 
friends who carry their share of the burden.
    Our adversaries and competitors recognize our strategies are 
working--and they continue to do everything they can to disrupt us. We 
now stand at a moment where many are again making the bet that the 
United States is too divided or distracted at home to stay the course. 
That is what is at stake with President Biden's national security 
supplemental funding request.
    The President's request would secure the urgent resources America 
needs to continue to lead. Secretary Austin and I believed it is 
important for us to be here together, because, in this mission, as in 
so much we do to advance America's national security, our defense, 
diplomacy, and development must work hand-in- hand.
    The President's funding request has four key elements:
    First: it provides for our enduring support to Israel and Ukraine, 
two democracies under brutal assault by actors determined to wipe their 
nations off the map.
    It will ensure Israel can continue to defend its people, by 
building on the diplomatic, security, and intelligence support the 
United States has surged since Hamas's appalling slaughter. I know 
several Committee members have traveled to Israel over the last three 
weeks--and heard directly from Israeli officials what they need to 
defend their people and prevent another attack like this. And that is 
what this supplemental provides, with $3.7 billion for security needs 
including to help Israel bolster its air and missile defense systems. 
The supplemental also requests additional authority to drawdown DOD 
stocks, and enhances U.S. embassy security.
    As President Biden has made clear from the outset, while Israel has 
the right--and indeed, the obligation--to defend itself, the way it 
does so matters. In our discussions with the Israeli Government, the 
President and I have both stressed the need for Israel to operate by 
the law of war and in accordance with international humanitarian law, 
and to take all possible measures to avoid civilian casualties.
    For Ukraine, President Biden is requesting $16.3 billion for State 
and USAID to ensure Ukraine can sustain the economic base and recovery 
its war effort depends on and to supply its defense--without which, 
Russia will move quickly to try to seize and exploit any possible 
opening.
    This funding will not only rebuild Ukraine's economy and offset the 
damage wrought by Russia, but also reimagine it: investing in new 
industries, infrastructure, and supply chains connected to Europe and 
the world . . . secure and resilient clean energy . . . anti-corruption 
bodies, civil society, and media. To be strong enough to deter and 
defend against aggressors beyond its borders, Ukraine needs a resilient 
economy and vibrant democracy within its borders.
    Since Russia launched its war, the robust funding supported by 
Congress has enabled the people of Ukraine in their courageous fight to 
defend their nation. It has helped make sure Russia's invasion is a 
strategic debacle, making it weaker in nearly every way. And it has 
rallied the world in defense of Ukraine and of the principles at the 
heart of the UN Charter--sovereignty, territorial integrity, and 
independence. Our partners are making significant contributions to 
share the burden of assistance--turning our backs on their efforts 
would have lasting implications for our security and standing in the 
world.
    The conflicts in Ukraine and the Middle East have clear links. 
Since we cut off Russia's traditional means of supplying its military, 
it has turned more and more to Iran for assistance. In return, Moscow 
has supplied Iran with increasingly advanced military technology, which 
poses a threat to Israel's security. Allowing Russia to prevail with 
Iran's support will embolden both Moscow and Tehran.
    Second, this funding will enable us to tackle grave humanitarian 
needs created by autocrats and terrorists, as well as by conflict and 
natural disasters in Ukraine, Gaza, Sudan, Armenia, and other places 
around the world. Food, water, medicine, and other essential 
humanitarian assistance for civilians must be able to flow into Gaza. 
Civilians must be able to stay out of harm's way--a task made even more 
difficult as Hamas uses civilians as human shields. And humanitarian 
pauses must be considered.
    Helping prevent a worsening humanitarian catastrophe aligns with 
our Nation's most deeply held principles, including our belief that 
every civilian life is equally valuable, and equally worthy of 
protection. Without swift and sustained humanitarian relief, the 
conflict is much more likely to spread, suffering will grow, and Hamas 
and its sponsors will benefit by fashioning themselves as the saviors 
of the very desperation they created.
    Humanitarian assistance is also vital to Israel's security. 
Providing immediate aid and protection for Palestinian civilians in the 
conflict is a necessary foundation for finding partners in Gaza who 
have a different vision for the future than Hamas--and who are willing 
to help make it real.
    Third, this funding is critical to outcompeting our strategic 
rivals. This request will bolster deterrence. It will support our 
allies and partners in the Indo-Pacific to address threats from an 
increasingly assertive PRC and to meet emerging challenges. It will 
uphold our commitments to our allies, including under our trilateral 
security partnership with Australia and the United Kingdom, AUKUS. And 
it will help countries transition to military and defense equipment 
that's made in America.
    The President's request also includes resources for the World Bank 
and International Monetary Fund to provide alternatives to China's 
coercive financing for our partners in the developing world. It will 
also help ease the impact of spillovers of Russia's war on food and 
energy security for the world's most vulnerable. The proposed $2 
billion appropriation and requested authorizations would generate 
almost $50 billion in additional development funding capacity for the 
World Bank and IMF--an enormous return on our investment that 
demonstrates U.S. leadership in meeting urgent global challenges.
    And fourth, the supplemental will make critical investments to 
protect the security of Americans at home. That includes addressing the 
hemispheric challenge of irregular migration, and strengthening our 
defense industrial base to ensure our military continues to be the most 
ready, capable, and best equipped fighting force the world has ever 
seen, and that we remain the arsenal for democracy. More than $50 
billion of the security assistance funding will replenish U.S. military 
stocks, strengthen our domestic defense industrial base, and will be 
spent through American businesses.
    Each of these investments work together to achieve our mission: a 
stronger, safer, brighter future, where America can lead from a 
position of strength. Let us come together and demonstrate to one 
another and to the world that we can rise to the moment.
    Finally, before I close, I'd like to thank Senators for their vote 
today to send the President's ambassadorial nominee Jack Lew to Israel 
at this critical time. And I encourage the Senate to do the same for 
the 26 other nominees waiting for their vote.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

    Chair Murray. Thank you very much, Secretary Blinken.
    Secretary Austin, if you want to begin your testimony, 
please. Actually, if you can suspend until we have the room 
cleared.
    [Pause.]
    Chair Murray. Thank you. Secretary Austin, you may begin.
STATEMENT OF HON. LLOYD J. AUSTIN III, SECRETARY, U.S. 
            DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE
    Secretary Austin. Chair Murray, Vice Chair Collins, Ladies 
and Gentlemen, good morning. Thanks for the opportunity to 
discuss our urgent need for supplemental funding to strengthen 
our national security.
    On October 7th, Hamas terrorists murdered more than 1,400 
Israelis, and at least 36 Americans, and took more than 200 
hostages. It was the deadliest terrorist attack in Israel's 
history. It was cruel, hateful, and repugnant. And as former 
head of Central Command, it reminded me powerfully of the 
crimes committed by ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) in 
Iraq and Syria.
    As President Biden has said, any democracy would respond 
decisively to such a vile terrorist assault. And I traveled to 
Israel just days after the attack to underscore America's 
ironclad commitment to Israel's security. Now, we fully 
understand that Hamas does not represent the Palestinian 
people, and we mourn the loss of Palestinian civilians. And I 
have repeatedly made clear to Israel's leaders that protecting 
civilians in Gaza is both a moral responsibility and a 
strategic imperative. Democracies like ours are stronger and 
more secure when we uphold the law of war and protect 
civilians.
    Now, tensions remain exceptionally high, so let me outline 
the Department's four key lines of effort.
    First, we will continue to protect American forces and 
citizens in the region. Our personnel have come under repeated 
attack in recent days by Iranian-backed militia groups, and 
these attacks must stop. At the President's direction, U.S. 
forces have conducted precision self-defense strikes on 
facilities in Eastern Syria used by Iran's IRGC (Islamic 
Revolutionary Guard Corps) and its affiliates. If Iranian-
backed groups continue to attack U.S. forces, we will not 
hesitate to take further necessary measures to protect our 
people. We have also raised force protection measures across 
the region, and I have deployed a Terminal High Altitude Area 
Defense battery, as well as additional Patriot batteries.
    Second, we are flowing security assistance into Israel at 
the speed of war. We are providing air-defense capabilities, 
precision-guided munitions, small-diameter bombs, and other key 
equipment, including more interceptors for the life-saving Iron 
Dome system.
    Third, we are coordinating closely with Israel to help 
secure the release of every man, woman, and child seized by 
Hamas, including American citizens. As President Biden told the 
families of the missing Americans, we have no higher priority 
than the safe return of their loved ones. And we immediately 
provided U.S. military advisors to offer best practices for 
integrating hostage recovery into Israel's operations.
    And finally, we swiftly strengthened our force posture in 
the region to deter any state or non-state actor from 
escalating this crisis beyond Gaza. Two carrier strike groups 
are now in the region. Last week, an additional F-16 Squadron 
arrived in the region, complementing other fighter squadrons 
already in theater. And all this underscores the President's 
clear warning: no government or group that wishes Israel harm 
should try to widen this crisis. Yet even as we surge support 
into Israel, we remain focused on Ukraine.
    Nearly 20 months into Putin's failed campaign of conquest, 
the Russian military has been badly weakened. Ukraine's brave 
forces have taken back more than half of the territory seized 
by Russian invaders since February 2022, and that was made 
possible by bipartisan and principled U.S. leadership, and our 
coalition of some 50 allies and partners.
    In both Israel and Ukraine, democracies are fighting 
ruthless foes who are out to annihilate them. We will not let 
Hamas or Putin win. Today's battles against aggression and 
terrorism will define global security for years to come, and 
only firm American leadership can ensure that tyrants, and 
thugs, and terrorists worldwide are not emboldened to commit 
more aggression and more atrocities. So our actions today will 
shape the world that our children and grandchildren inherit. 
And that is why we have submitted an urgent supplemental budget 
request to help fund America's national security needs, and to 
stand by our partners, and to invest in our defense industrial 
base. We are requesting $10.6 billion to help Israel defend 
itself. The supplemental also requests $44.4 billion to help 
Ukraine continue to defend itself against Russia's ongoing 
aggression. We are also requesting $3.3 billion to meet the 
U.S. military requirements in our submarine industrial base and 
to fulfill our AUKUS requirements.
    Now, this supplemental does not just help meet today's 
urgent challenges, it also invests in our defense industrial 
base. When we send our friends munitions from our stockpiles, 
the money to replenish our supplies strengthens our military 
readiness and we invest in American industry and American 
workers. That also holds true for funding for Israel or Ukraine 
to procure new equipment off the production line. Some $50 
billion of this supplemental request would flow through our 
defense industrial base, creating American jobs in more than 30 
States, and these investments will also improve our production 
capacities far into the future, and help ensure that we are 
ready to tackle security challenges worldwide. And all that 
means greater prosperity at home and greater security around 
the globe.
    And finally, let me thank all of you for your leadership. 
Your bipartisan support ensures that we can defend America, and 
stand by the allies and partners who magnify our strength. I am 
also deeply committed to working with all of you to enact a 
full-year appropriations bill to keep America secure.
    As President Biden has said, American leadership is what 
holds the world together, and if we fail to lead, the costs and 
threats to the United States will only grow. We must not give 
our friends, our rivals, or our foes any reason to doubt 
America's resolve. So I look forward to continuing to work with 
you to keep America secure, prosperous, and strong.
    Thank you.
    [The statement follows:]

             Prepared Statement of Hon. Lloyd J. Austin III
    Good morning, Chair Murray, Vice Chair Collins.
    I'm grateful for the opportunity to discuss our urgent need for 
supplemental funding to both strengthen our National security and 
support our allies and partners.
    On October 7, Hamas terrorists murdered more than 1,400 Israelis--
and at least 36 Americans--and took more than 200 hostages. It was the 
deadliest attack deliberately targeting civilians in Israel's history. 
It was cruel, hateful, and repugnant. And as a former head of Central 
Command, these Hamas atrocities remind me powerfully of the outrages 
committed by ISIS in Iraq and Syria.
    As President Biden has told Prime Minister Netanyahu, any democracy 
would respond swiftly and decisively to such a despicable terrorist 
assault. I traveled to Israel earlier this month to express my deep 
condolences to the Israeli people--and to underscore America's ironclad 
commitment to Israel's security.
    Hamas does not represent the Palestinian people, and we mourn the 
loss of Palestinian lives. I have repeatedly made clear to Israel's 
leaders that protecting civilians in Gaza is both a moral 
responsibility and a strategic imperative. Hamas militants 
intentionally mix with women and children, but democracies like ours 
are stronger and more secure because we uphold the law of war and 
protect civilians.
    Tensions across the region remain exceptionally high. So let me 
briefly outline the Department's four key lines of effort:
    First, we will continue to protect American forces and citizens in 
the region. Our personnel have come under repeated attack in recent 
days by Iranian-backed militia groups. These unacceptable Iranian-
backed attacks against U.S. forces must stop. At the President's 
direction, U.S. forces have conducted precision self-defense strikes on 
facilities in eastern Syria used by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard 
Corps and its affiliates. If Iranian backed groups continue to attack 
U.S. forces, we will not hesitate to take further necessary measures in 
the region to protect our people.
    We have also raised force-protection measures across the region. I 
have deployed a Terminal High Altitude Area Defense battery, as well as 
additional Patriot batteries, to further protect our people.
    Second, we are flowing security assistance to Israel at the speed 
of war. We are providing air-defense capabilities, precision-guided 
munitions, small-diameter bombs, and other key equipment, including 
more interceptors for the lifesaving Iron Dome system.
    Third, we're coordinating closely with Israel to help secure the 
release of every man, woman, and child seized by Hamas--including 
American citizens. As President Biden told the families of the missing 
Americans, we have no higher priority than the safe return of their 
loved ones. We immediately provided U.S. military advisers to offer 
best practices for integrating hostage recovery into Israel's 
operations.
    And finally, we swiftly strengthened our force posture in the 
region to deter any state or non-state actor from escalating this 
crisis beyond Gaza. Two Carrier Strike Groups are now in the region. 
Last week, an additional F-16 Squadron arrived in the region, 
complementing other fighter squadrons already in the theater. All this 
underscores the President's clear warning: no government or group that 
wishes Israel harm should try to widen this crisis or shed more blood.
    Now, Hamas attacked Israel at a moment of global challenge. Even as 
we surge support to Israel, we remain focused on Ukraine. And thanks to 
bipartisan support in Congress, the United States has stood with the 
Ukrainian people and helped them fight back against Russia's 
aggression.
    Nearly 20 months into Putin's failed campaign of conquest, the 
Russian military has been badly weakened and Ukraine has inspired the 
world. Ukrainian forces have taken back more than half of the territory 
seized by Russian invaders since February 2022. That was made possible 
by bold and principled U.S. leadership--and the coalition of some 50 
allies and partners standing with Ukraine. But Putin has not yet 
stopped his aggression. Ukraine is still under attack, and must still 
defend itself.
    In both Israel and Ukraine, democracies are fighting ruthless foes 
bent on their annihilation. We will not let Hamas or Putin win. Today's 
battles against aggression and terrorism will define global security 
for years to come. Only firm American leadership can ensure that 
tyrants, thugs, and terrorists worldwide are not emboldened to commit 
more aggression and atrocities. So our actions today will shape the 
world that our children and grandchildren inherit.
    That is why we have submitted an urgent supplemental budget request 
to help fund America's national security needs, stand by our partners, 
and invest in our defense industrial base.
    So, we are requesting $10.6 billion to sharpen Israel's ability to 
defend itself. This includes $5.2 billion to help Israel increase the 
capacity of its Iron Dome and other air-defense systems; $4.4 billion 
to replenish DOD stocks provided to Israel; and $1 billion to boost our 
own capacity to produce critical munitions, especially 155-millimeter 
artillery.
    The supplemental also requests $44.4 billion to ensure that Ukraine 
can continue to defend itself against Russia's aggression. This 
includes $12 billion for the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative to 
directly fund acquisition of key weapons for Ukraine; $18 billion to 
replace DOD stocks provided to Ukraine; $10.7 billion for cybersecurity 
and intelligence support, as well as for the enhanced presence of U.S. 
personnel deployed in Europe; and $3.7 billion to expand production 
capacity in our industrial base.
    We're also requesting $3.3 billion to meet U.S. military 
requirements in our submarine industrial base (SIB). The 
Administration's supplemental request ensures that we maintain our 
focus on strengthening deterrence in the Indo-Pacific region and 
supporting key allies and partners as part of our efforts to maintain 
peace and stability.
    For the Department of Defense, the $3.3 billion for the SIB will 
accelerate build and sustainment rates for attack submarines, one of 
our most effective capabilities for maintaining deterrence. While this 
funding is necessary to support U.S. national needs from our submarine 
industrial base, these investments will also support U.S. commitments 
under AUKUS, of which the first major deliverable is to support 
Australia in acquiring contentionally-armed, nuclear-powered 
submarines.
    Now, this supplemental request does not just help meet today's 
urgent security challenges. It also makes key investments in our own 
defense industrial base.
    When we send our friends munitions from our stockpiles, the money 
to replenish our supplies strengthens our military readiness-and we 
invest in American industry and American workers. That also holds true 
for funding for Israel or Ukraine to procure new equipment off the 
production line. Some $50 billion of this supplemental request would 
flow through our defense industrial base, rushing aid to our partners 
while creating good American jobs in more than 30 States.
    These investments will also significantly improve our production 
capacities far into the future--and help ensure that we are ready to 
tackle security challenges worldwide. And all that means greater 
prosperity at home and greater security worldwide.
    Finally, let me thank you all for your leadership. Your bipartisan 
support ensures that we can defend America and stand by the allies and 
partners who magnify our strength.
    I am also deeply committed to working with you all to enact a full-
year appropriations bill to keep America secure.
    As President Biden said, ``American leadership is what holds the 
world together.'' If we fail to lead, the cost and the threats to the 
United States will only grow. We must not give our friends, our rivals, 
or our foes any reason to doubt America's resolve.
    I look forward to continuing to work with you all to support Israel 
and Ukraine and to bolster our defense industrial base--and to keep 
America secure, prosperous, and strong. Thank you.

    Chair Murray. Thank you, Secretary Austin.
    We will now begin a round of 5-minute questions of our 
witnesses, and I ask our colleagues to keep track of your clock 
and stay within those 5 minutes.
    We have a lot of urgent challenges: Getting aid to Israel 
as soon as possible, continuing our support for Ukraine, and 
addressing urgent humanitarian needs globally. Some of my 
colleagues in the House and a few in the Senate are pushing to 
provide only the emergency military funding for Israel and not 
the rest of the President's request in this security 
supplemental.
    Secretary Blinken and Secretary Austin, I would like each 
of you to address this question: Why is it so important that we 
provide supplemental funding for Ukraine, the Indo-Pacific, and 
humanitarian assistance, in addition to military aid to Israel?
    And Secretary Blinken, I will begin with you.
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you very much, Chair.
    I think it is very important to understand that the 
elements of this request work together as a package. As you 
know, the defense industrial base operates in a complex way, it 
is an interdependent unit, and making these investments 
together it allows us to do what is needed to strengthen the 
defense industrial base and to seize the benefits and 
efficiencies that come from making these investments together, 
rather than making them piecemeal.
    We also know, as you have heard, that increasingly Russia 
and Iran are working together to challenge our leadership, to 
hem us in globally to pose a growing threat to our own security 
as well as to that of our allies and partners. They have been 
partners in a devastating war in Syria, and now we have Iranian 
proxies firing missiles from Syria in Northern Israel.
    Russia could stop this, but it does not. Instead to the 
contrary, its government is hosting Hamas for talks in Moscow. 
Iran is sending UAVs to Russia to attack Ukrainian civilians. 
So we are seeing the profound connections here.
    What happens in Ukraine, what happens in the Middle East 
also matters for the Indo-Pacific. Beyond Europe, we know that 
our allies, as well as our adversaries, as well as our 
competitors, are watching that conflict. They are watching our 
response, the global impacts of Russia's unprovoked War of 
Aggression against Ukraine, further stress, the importance of 
ensuring that the Indo-Pacific does not learn the wrong lessons 
from these conflicts.
    So the funding requests that we have put before you is 
vital to securing a free and open Indo-Pacific in the face of 
mounting challenges in that region, to threaten and undermine 
the International Rules-Based Order, including things like 
freedom of navigation.
    In other words, to put it succinctly, for our adversaries, 
be they States or non-state, this is all one fight and we have 
to respond in a way that recognizes that. If we start to peel 
off pieces of this package, they will see that, they will 
understand that we are playing whack-a-mole while they 
cooperate increasingly and pose an ever greater threat to our 
security as well as for that of our allies and partners.
    And one final thing, I think when it comes to the 
humanitarian assistance, we can come back to this it is first 
and foremost vital because this is who we are. We know that 
when it comes down to it, in each and every one of these 
conflicts, people are suffering: men, women and children, 
parents, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandparents. And I 
think it is profoundly who we are to want to do everything we 
can to assist them, to try to lift some of the horrific burden 
that they are bearing from being caught in the midst of 
conflict.
    At the same time, it is vitally important, as a strategic 
proposition, that we provide the assistance that we can to help 
people in need. We have seen Hamas and other groups play the 
siren song of nihilism to try to attract people to their 
perverted cause. We want to make sure that we have a better 
response, that we have a better answer across the board. That 
is part of the strategic proposition as well as one that is 
profoundly humanitarian. Thank you.
    Chair Murray. Secretary Austin.
    Secretary Austin. Thanks, Chair Murray. I think it is 
important to remind ourselves that what happens in Ukraine and 
what happens in Israel matters not to just Ukraine and Israel, 
it matters to us. It affects our national security as well. We 
also have to remind ourselves that these countries are in a 
fight. They are fighting every day and there are people dying 
every day.
    And the Ukraine, Putin continues to attack civilians and 
commit war crimes that are despicable. And so these countries 
need, urgently need the resources to ensure that they can 
continue to defend their sovereign territory. You know, in 
Ukraine, Putin has felt that he could wait us out, and that is 
part of his strategy, the main part of his strategy.
    He feels that the West will get tired of supporting 
Ukraine, and he will soon have his way. If that is the case, if 
we do not support Ukraine, then Putin wins. But Putin will not 
stop in Ukraine. We know that. We all know that. And so I think 
it is important to do what is necessary to support Ukraine and 
Israel and to help them defend their sovereign territory.
    But as the Secretary said--as Secretary Blinken said, this 
is also an investment in our defense industrial base. It helps 
us replenish our stockpiles and gives us additional depth and 
agility that helps us do what we have done over the years, over 
the centuries--over the decades, excuse me, around the world. 
And so I think this is very important that we provide the 
support, and it is important that we provide the support now to 
both--in both cases. Thank you, Chair.
    Chair Murray. Thank you. And if my committee members will 
indulge me, I just want to ask Secretary Blinken on the $10 
billion in humanitarian assistance. Some of my colleagues have 
raised concern that that could end up in the wrong hands, 
including Hamas. Can you just walk the committee through the 
reason why you requested it and how you are confident that if 
it is provided in places like Gaza will not end up in the hand 
of terrorists?
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you very much. First, let us be 
clear that the needs are desperate. The needs for the most 
basic things--food, water, medicine, fuel--all of these are 
literally a matter of life and death just to focus in on Gaza 
and we know that they are running out. Hospitals do not have 
the fuel they need to operate. Men, women, and children 
displaced, well over a million people displaced in Gaza, about 
half of them under the care of UNRWA (United Nations Relief and 
Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East) right now 
desperately need the most basic things in order to survive.
    So from day one, we have been working with the Israeli 
government, with Egypt, with the UN (United Nations) agencies, 
as well as with other actors to try to make sure that 
assistance could get into people who need it in Gaza, but get 
in a way that does not go to the people who do not need it, and 
that is Hamas.
    So we have set up a system where assistance is coming 
through Rafah, the gate between Egypt and Gaza. The assistance 
is checked by Israel at a site that has been established to do 
that, so that every truck that goes in is verified by Israel as 
well as by the Egyptian authorities. The trucks go in--these 
are UN trucks--they go in, they connect to other UN trucks on 
the other side of the line in Gaza. These trucks then go to 
distribution facilities that are run by UN agencies.
    The supplies are then taken from those agencies to various 
points, to hospitals, to bakeries, because bread is critical 
and to other endpoints. Throughout this process, we have the 
ability, and others have an ability, to track where the 
assistance is going. We are then able to do monitoring on the 
other end by contacting the designated recipients to ensure 
that it has actually gotten to where it is supposed to go, and 
not been diverted.
    To date, we do not have reports either from the UN or from 
Israel that this assistance has been diverted from its intended 
recipients, but it is something that we are going to track very 
closely.
    Can I promise that you and this committee that there will 
be a 100-percent delivery to the designated recipients? No. 
There will inevitably some spillage. We have not seen it to 
date, but I think we have to anticipate that. But the 
overwhelming, overwhelming majority of the assistance, thus 
far, is getting to people who need it, and we need more. We 
have gotten up to over 50 trucks a day before the conflict in 
Gaza, before Hamas' aggression against Israel, and its 
response.
    The UN and other agencies and other organizations providing 
relief, we are sending in between 500 and 800 trucks a day. 
Right now we are up to almost 60. We are trying to get to 100 
this week. That is the bare minimum of what is needed, but we 
have got to do it and we believe we have mechanisms in place to 
make sure that that assistance gets to people who need it, not 
to Hamas.
    Chair Murray. Thank you.
    Vice Chair Collins.
    Vice Chair Collins. Secretary Blinken, let me follow up on 
Chair Murray's question. Does Israel agree that there are 
sufficient safeguards to prevent humanitarian aid from being 
diverted to Hamas rather than reaching the innocent civilians 
whom we all want to assist?
    Secretary Blinken. Yes, Vice Chair. And this is something 
that we have worked closely with Israel as well as with other 
actors involved. And as I said, the assistance that is going in 
from Egypt in Gaza is first checked by the Israelis as well as 
by the Egyptians. And then as I mentioned, we have some methods 
to track it to make sure it gets to where it is supposed to go. 
To date, neither the Israelis nor the UN have said that the aid 
has been diverted, and we are in constant, almost daily contact 
with Israel to make sure that the process we have established 
is working and also to find ways to expand it.
    One of the areas where we do need to do more and do need to 
do better is particularly with fuel because hospitals need fuel 
to run, desalination, plants need fuel to operate. This is an 
area where we are working to find a way forward that meets the 
needs, but also with the assurances that Hamas won't abscond 
with it.
    Vice Chair Collins. Secretary Austin, as you indicated in 
your opening remarks, Iranian-backed terrorists proxy groups in 
the region have launched numerous drone and rocket attacks 
against our forces, U.S. forces in Syria and Iraq. According to 
press reports, there have been at least 20 such attacks and 19 
U.S. service members have been wounded.
    It is imperative that Iran and its proxy groups understand 
that they cannot attack American Forces with impunity. I know 
that last week President Biden ordered two U.S. strikes against 
facilities in Syria used by Iranian proxies to threaten our 
troops. But the New York Times has reported over the weekend 
that Iranian-backed terrorists continue to attack U.S. forces 
in the region even after these airstrikes.
    Since these U.S. airstrikes apparently have not been 
sufficient to deter additional attacks on our troops by 
Iranian-backed proxies, what else is the Department doing to 
stop attacks against American troops?
    Secretary Austin. Thanks, Vice Chair. First of all, let me 
emphasize that the protection, the safety of our troops and our 
civilians is of utmost important to me, and utmost important to 
the President as well. We have taken a number of steps to make 
sure that we increase our force protection posture. We have 
deployed a number of assets into the region as well. We have 
been clear, the President has been clear, and I have been 
clear, Vice Chair, that if this does not stop, then we will 
respond. And so we maintain the right to respond. We have the 
capability to do that, and we will respond at a time and place 
of our choosing.
    Vice Chair Collins. Secretary Blinken, Israel has every 
right to defend its citizens from Hamas, including seeking out 
the terrorists and Gaza and destroying them while also trying 
to minimize civilian casualties. There is a critical 
distinction here: Hamas targeted civilians; they kidnapped 
innocent children as well as people as old as 85 years old. 
Israel is not doing that. As Israel has begun to respond and 
Gaza to Hamas' indiscriminate and barbaric targeting of 
innocent Israeli citizens, some, and we have heard it today, 
have called for a ceasefire. A ceasefire would be a strategic 
victory for Hamas. It would simply allow Hamas to bide its time 
and prepare for future attacks, and pay no price for the 
greatest loss of Jewish lives in a single day since the 
Holocaust. Could you clarify the Administration's position on a 
ceasefire?
    Secretary Blinken. First of all, Senator, I fully agree 
with you that no country, no country could tolerate what Israel 
suffered on October 7th. And it is extraordinary, the extent to 
which that day has receded in memory for so many. I was in 
Israel shortly after the attack. I have been going to Israel 
professionally for 30 years, and longer than that in my own 
life, and I have never seen what we have all seen, and what 
Israel experienced on that day, in terms of the impact that it 
has on that society, almost to man, woman, and child.
    And as we know, it was not just the attack itself and the 
vulnerability that it revealed, it was the nature of the attack 
with young people chased down and gunned down at a dance party 
with, as you said, children executed in front of their parents, 
parents executed in front of their children, families in a 
final embrace, burned alive, people beheaded. I could go on. 
You have seen the pictures; you have seen the video. I have 
heard from many eyewitnesses to these atrocities, including, 
and if you will forgive me because, again, these stories recede 
so quickly, a family at its breakfast table at one of the 
kibbutzes. And by the way, the profound irony of attacks on 
kibbutzes, the very people who most ardently believe and want a 
future of peace between Israelis and Palestinians, a future of 
two States. A family of four, a young boy and girl, 6 and 8 
years old, and their parents around the breakfast table: the 
father, his eye gouged out in front of his kids; the mother's 
breast cut off; the girl's foot amputated; the boy's fingers 
cut off before they were executed. And then their executioner 
sat down and had a meal. That is what this society is dealing 
with. And no nation could tolerate that.
    And as we have said repeatedly, as President Biden has 
repeatedly made clear, Israel has not only the right but the 
obligation to defend itself and to try to take every possible 
step to make sure this does not happen again. We have been 
equally clear that it is vitally important how Israel does 
this. And the imperative of doing everything possible to 
protect civilians as well as to care for those who are 
endangered by the conflict is something that we feel strongly.
    You are, of course, right that this is a special burden on 
Israel, because Hamas, cynically and monstrously, puts, 
intentionally, civilians in harm's way by hiding behind them, 
by using them as human shields, by placing its people, by 
placing its equipment, by placing its ammunition, its weapons, 
its command posts underneath hospitals, underneath schools in 
residential complexes. But for each of us, and particularly for 
democracies like Israel and the United States, we have to bear 
the burden of doing everything we possibly can to ensure that 
civilians are not harmed and to care for those who need our 
help.
    When it comes to a ceasefire in this moment, you are 
exactly right, that would simply consolidate what Hamas has 
been able to do and allow it to remain where it is and 
potentially repeat what it did another day. And that is not 
tolerable. No nation would tolerate it. We do believe that we 
have to consider things like humanitarian pauses to make sure 
that assistance can get to those who need it and that people 
can be protected and get out of harm's way.
    But we cannot have a situation where there is a reversion 
to the status quo, where when this is over, it goes back to 
Hamas being responsible for the governance and so-called 
security of Gaza because that is simply an invitation to repeat 
what happened. And again, no nation would tolerate that.
    Chair Murray. Thank you.
    Senator Durbin.
    Senator Durbin. Thank you, Madam Chair. Six weeks ago, the 
Senate, on a bipartisan basis, gathered with President 
Zelenskyy in the Old Senate Chamber. It was an historic and 
memorable moment. Many things were said about the courage of 
the Ukrainian people, which were well deserved. But I recall 
one particular statement made by President Zelenskyy, which I 
would like to ask you about this morning.
    He was asked about the course of the war and said: The 
heroism of his people has been demonstrated over and over 
again. But he said, ``Without the continued financial support 
of the United States and NATO, we will lose this war.'' He was 
unequivocal; he repeated it: ``Without the financial support of 
the United States and NATO, we will lose this war.''
    Secretary Austin, was he exaggerating?
    Secretary Austin. He was not, Senator. As you know, we have 
provided significant amounts of security assistance to the 
Ukraine. And not only that, based upon our leadership, our 
example, some 50 other countries have come in and worked with 
us in a coalition to also provide assistance. And so they have 
provided some $35 billion of their own to this overall effort. 
And I think our leadership in this effort really, really 
matters.
    Senator Durbin. Secretary Blinken, we know why we are 
asking these questions. The proposals coming from the new 
Speaker of the House suggests that he would fund the support 
for Israel requested by the administration, but not fund the 
support for Ukraine. In the starkest terms, what would that 
mean if we were to step back and not fund support for the 
people of Ukraine to repel Putin at this moment?
    Secretary Blinken. Senator, I think it would do both 
terrible harm to our values, but also to our core interests. 
Values because I think all of us are united in wanting to 
respond to aggressors, to bullies who try to lord it over their 
neighbors. And in the midst of doing that, inflicting credible 
suffering on people that----
    Senator Durbin. What impact would that have on NATO?
    Secretary Blinken. I am sorry?
    Senator Durbin. What impact would it have on NATO if the 
United States does not fund----
    Secretary Blinken. Well, I would say two things. First, 
what we have seen is a remarkable coming together of our NATO 
alliance; an alliance that has actually grown stronger and 
larger as a result of Putin's aggression; an alliance that has 
also stepped up in a major way. Its individual members in terms 
of burden sharing, we often and rightly, have concerns in 
different conflicts in the past about inadequate burden 
sharing.
    This is an instance where we have seen very significant 
burden sharing that would almost certainly go away if we go 
away. If you look at it, total assistance to Ukraine, going 
back to February of 2022, the United States has provided about 
$75 billion; our allies in partners, $90 billion. If you look 
at budget support, the United States has provided about $22 
billion during that period; allies and partners, $49 billion 
during that period. Military support, we provided about $43 
billion; allies and partners, $33 billion. Humanitarian 
assistance, the United States, $2.3 billion; allies and 
partners, $4.5 billion, plus another $18 to $20 billion in 
caring for the many refugees who went to Europe and outside of 
Ukraine.
    So I think what the message it would send, first of all, to 
each and every one of these countries is: The United States is 
abandoning ship, well, we may as well do too. And second, our 
alliance itself is founded on the proposition that we are all 
in this together. I think they would see this as a retreat from 
our own responsibilities.
    Finally, and this is very important, and you heard the 
Secretary of Defense say this: There is no doubt in my mind 
that if Putin is allowed to continue to act with impunity, that 
not only would he not stop at Ukraine and potentially go to a 
NATO country next, which would invoke our Article V obligations 
to our allies and partners, it would send a message to would-be 
aggressors everywhere in the world, that he can get away with 
it, so can we.
    And then we are likely to have a world full of conflict, 
and that is a world that is not good for the United States. We 
are much better sustaining our effort now, seeing this to 
success than having to pay a much higher price later when we 
have to deal with a world full of aggression.
    Senator Durbin. Mr. Secretary, it cannot be a coincidence 
that Putin would invite the head of the Hamas terrorist 
organization to Moscow just days after the October 7th attack, 
the terrible massacre, which you described in some detail, and 
I have heard so many depictions. So do you believe there is an 
allied effort between Putin's cause and cause of the Hamas 
terrorists?
    Secretary Blinken. Putin is very much trying to take 
advantage of the Hamas attack on Israel in the hopes that it 
will distract us, that it will divert our focus away from 
Ukraine, and away from his aggression in Ukraine, and that it 
will result in the United States pulling back, pulling back its 
resources, pulling back its support. And at the same time he 
has allied with the exact elements that are trying to wreak 
havoc in Israel. So we see these things as being very much 
joined, which is one of the reasons our request is a joint 
request.
    Senator Durbin. Thank you.
    Chair Murray. Thank you.
    Senator Graham.
    Senator Graham. Thank you. Secretary Blinken, thank you 
very much for helping us, the 10 of us who went over to Israel 
and Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
    Just to kind of tighten things up a little bit. From an 
Israeli point-of-view, there will be no ceasefire until Hamas 
ceases to be a threat to the State of Israel. Do you agree with 
that statement?
    Secretary Blinken. I do.
    Senator Graham. Okay. So no ceasefire until Hamas ceases to 
be a threat makes perfect sense to me. Do you believe it is the 
goal of Hamas to destroy Israel, not to have a two-state 
solution?
    Secretary Blinken. You do not have to take my word for it. 
Take Hamas' word for it, it is in their----
    Senator Graham. I could not agree with--do you agree with 
that, General Austin?
    Secretary Austin. I do. They have said so.
    Senator Graham. All right. So we are fighting somebody who 
is not trying to help the Palestinians. They are trying to kill 
all the Jews. Would it be fair to say that Hamas is a modern 
day version of religious Nazis?
    Secretary Blinken. I think there are different ways to 
qualify it. I would simply say that----
    Senator Graham. Well is that a good characterization?
    Secretary Blinken [continuing]. One of the most recent--I 
think the best recent analogy, Senator, is ISIS.
    Senator Graham. Is that okay with you for me to call them 
religious Nazis?
    Secretary Austin. I agree with Secretary Blinken. There is 
a direct parallel to ISIS, as a matter of fact, I think they 
are----
    Senator Graham. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, well, that is right, 
ISIS, Nazis, is all bad. We all agree with that. Do you agree 
without Iran's help, Hamas could not do this?
    Secretary Blinken. In short, yes. There is no doubt that 
Hamas would not be Hamas without----
    Senator Graham. As a matter of fact, General Austin, some 
estimates are that 93 percent of all the money Hamas receives 
comes from Iran. Is that correct?
    Secretary Austin. I do not know the exact percentage, but I 
would say the vast majority does come from----
    Senator Graham. Well, all the reports I have seen from the 
administration it is 90 percent. So Hamas, ISIS, Nazis, 
whatever you want to call them, they want to kill all the Jews. 
So if I were Jewish, I would want to stop them. They are being 
supported by Iran. Our troops in Syria and Iraq, they are there 
to protect against the rise of ISIS. Is that true, General 
Austin?
    Secretary Austin. That is right. They are going----
    Senator Graham. I mean, they are just not hanging out with 
no other place to go. They are there because it is in our 
national security interest that ISIS not come back. Do you 
agree with that?
    Secretary Austin. That is correct, sir.
    Senator Graham. Okay. Is it a red line for Iran to 
orchestrate an attack on our forces that kills an American in 
Syria or Iraq? Is that a red line? Can we tell the Iranians 
today in case they are watching, if an American is killed by 
your proxies in Syria and Iraq, we are coming for you. Can you 
say that?
    Secretary Austin. I think Iran should be held accountable 
for the activities of these Iranian-backed----
    Senator Graham. Okay. Does that mean that we would consider 
going to the source of the problem? The great Satan is Iran, 
not Israel. It is not the United States. Can we say publicly to 
the families who have service members over in Iraq and Syria 
that we will hit Iran if they try to kill an American through 
their proxies? Can we say that?
    Secretary Austin. What we have said, and what we will 
continue to say, Senator, is that we are going to hold----
    Senator Graham. Well, I wish you would be more clear 
because I will tell you this, if one of these soldiers is 
killed, I am going to say it, and I hope other people will join 
me. If there is an attack by Hezbollah in the North, General 
Austin, that would put the State of Israel at threat. Would 
that be an escalation of the war?
    Secretary Austin. It would be an escalation, and Israel 
would be forced to fight on two fronts?
    Senator Graham. I agree with that. And they have over 
100,000 precision-guided rockets and missiles pointed to 
Israel; is that correct?
    Secretary Austin. That is correct.
    Senator Graham. Is it also correct that Iran is the biggest 
benefactor of Hezbollah?
    Secretary Austin. That is absolutely correct.
    Senator Graham. Can we say to Iran, the Ayatollah, who is a 
religious Nazi, that if you escalate the second front, if you 
activate Hezbollah against the State of Israel to create a 
second front, we will come after you. Can we say that? Is that 
a red line?
    Secretary Austin. Whether or not we attack Iran because of 
a decision on a part of a Lebanese Hezbollah, of course that is 
a fundamental decision, and also would require congressional 
support.
    Senator Graham. I am running out of time. I am going to say 
it if it happens. I hope it does not. Finally, do you agree 
with me, Secretary Blinken, that one of the main reasons this 
attack occurred is Iran wants to stop the reconciliation 
between Saudi Arabia and Israel?
    Secretary Blinken. Yes. Those who are opposed to 
normalization are Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran.
    Senator Graham. I just want to end it with this. I will do 
everything I can as a Republican to help the Biden 
administration to achieve reconciliation between Saudi Arabia 
and Israel with the understanding we are going to help the 
Palestinian people post-Hamas. That is the only way this ends. 
So I congratulate you. I urge you to continue to drive toward 
peace between Saudi Arabia and Israel. Do not let Iran win by 
getting us off track.
    And General Austin, I admire you very much, but we need to 
be clear, crystal clear as to what happens if Iran kills an 
American soldier or if they open up a second front, and I hope 
you will let them know what our red lines are. Thank you.
    Chair Murray. Senator Reed.
    Senator Reed. Thank you, Madam Chairman. The first point I 
would like to raise is with respect to our colleagues in the 
House, their proposal, the Republican leadership, not only do 
they not fund Ukraine, which I think your testimonies indicate 
as a vital imperative to the United States, they also want to 
offset the funding by taking money from the IRS.
    Obviously, I do not think they read The Wall Street Journal 
because just a few days ago, The Wall Street Journal reported 
that in 2021, the Americans failed to pay $688 billion in 
taxes. So if we do not invest in the IRS, we are giving up 
billions and billions of dollars. And I think that point has to 
be recognized as we go forward and negotiate with the House.
    But let me turn now to the issue at hand. We are talking 
about, Secretary Austin, sending resources to Ukraine. You are 
now the Civilian Secretary of Defense, but you were a 
distinguished Army Officer and Commander of CENTCOM (United 
States Central Command). If we do not send the resources, does 
that increase the probability that someday we will have to send 
young Americans into the European Theater?
    Secretary Austin. Absolutely. Senator Reed, I think as we 
said earlier, if Putin is successful, he will not stop at 
Ukraine, and if you are a Baltic state, you are thinking, I am 
next. And there is no question in my mind that sooner or later 
it will be, he will challenge NATO, and we will find ourselves 
in a shooting match.
    Senator Reed. And so in one sense, this comes down to a 
choice between lending them the tools to do the job or seeing 
young Americans facing combat?
    Secretary Austin. I agree, Senator.
    Senator Reed. Thank you. Again, Secretary Austin, you 
pointed out with respect to the efforts in Gaza that 
humanitarian assistance is not just a good thing to do, it is a 
strategic necessity for the operations of Israeli Forces. Is 
that correct?
    Secretary Austin. That is absolutely correct.
    Senator Reed. Now, it would seem to me that they could and 
should move into position in areas they control hospitals, 
shelter, and food, and make it available to the Palestinian 
people and do all they can to assist those people to reach 
those areas. Is that appropriate?
    Secretary Austin. Absolutely, Senator. And just so you 
know, I talked to my counterpart, Minister of Defense Gallant, 
nearly every day, and every day I talk to him I remind him of 
the necessity of getting humanitarian assistance into Gaza. We 
just had such a conversation yesterday, and this is really, 
really important for a number of reasons, but you know, I am 
delighted to see that the flow has increased, but to the 
Secretary's point, we need to increase it much, much more.
    Senator Reed. I think not only do we need to increase it, 
but also in terms of the strategy, of the perception of the 
world with respect to Israel, is that they have to make it 
clear that their foe is Hamas, not the Palestinian people, and 
that they will go, indeed, out of their way to try to protect 
the Palestinian people. I think that is essential. And it is 
not just a humanitarian impulse; it is very practical, 
strategic, operational technique.
    Secretary Austin. I agree, Senator.
    Senator Reed. We tried to make this point also, Mr. 
Secretary, Secretary Blinken, in our trips and we suggested 
that, to the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, that he can put 
resources into humanitarian relief, and I would urge you and 
your colleagues to try to get all of the Nations in that area 
to provide the resources. The Israelis control the ground, they 
can control the operations, but the money for aid to 
Palestinian people should come from the international 
community.
    Secretary Blinken. Yeah, Senator, I very much agree with 
that. The United States as it stands is, by far, the leading 
donor to the Palestinians. We provide $1.6 billion in 
assistance through various agencies to the Palestinians over 
the pendency of this administration. And we would like to see 
other partners, other allies step up and do the same thing. 
That is something that we have been very clear about in our own 
conversations. And I really applaud the members of this 
committee and others who have been to the region recently and 
have been pushing that as well.
    Senator Reed. Just a final point, my time is expiring. We 
have also a necessity to get many American citizens out of 
Gaza, and can you assure us that you are doing all you can to 
achieve that objective?
    Secretary Blinken. We are, Senator. We are working on this 
every single day. We have about 400 American citizens and their 
family members, so it is roughly a thousand people who are 
stuck in Gaza and want to get out. I am focused on this 
intensely. My entire Department is as well, both in the region 
and here, we are working with various parties to try to 
facilitate their departure from Gaza.
    The impediment is simple, it is Hamas. And we have not yet 
found a way to get them out by whatever--through whatever 
place, and by whatever means, that Hamas is not blocking. But 
we are working that with intermediaries, we are working that 
for them. There are also another, roughly, 5,000 third country 
nationals from other countries seeking to get out.
    So this is something that we are intensely focused on. We 
have been in close communication, as best we can, with 
Americans who are stuck in Gaza. We have had about 5,500 
communications that we have initiated, phone calls, emails, 
WhatsApp, to be in touch with them to try to guide them as best 
we can and to work for their ability to leave.
    Senator Reed. Thank you very much.
    Chair Murray. Senator Moran.
    Senator Moran. Chairwoman, thank you very much. Upon the 
Congressional receipt of the President's request for this 
emergency supplemental, my first request was of our own 
committee leadership that we have this hearing, and I thank 
both of you for honoring that request. Congress has a 
constitutional responsibility to deal with the dollars that 
will be spent, and I want this committee as we should do, to 
treat that in a significant and serious manner.
    I think a markup would be important, but I would certainly 
indicate that changes in input from this committee and from 
Congress are required: One, to make the package better, and 
two, to make it more amenable toward passage by both the House 
and the Senate. I was originally, and continued to be 
disappointed that Secretary Mayorkas is not with us, but I am 
pleased to know that that is occurring next week. I want the 
committee, and our witnesses and representation of the 
administration to know that there are many of us who believe 
our borders are a national security issue as well. That 
emergency supplemental financial aid should be included.
    But I also want you to know that we need the administration 
to work with us on policy changes, the laws and policies at the 
border, financial support for changes at the border, for 
additional personnel are insufficient, but we need a different 
approach toward the push and pull of those people around the 
world who are seeking entry into the United States. I am 
interested in seeing a package pass the Congress and be signed 
into law, but I want to make certain the administration knows 
that there are many members of Congress who are serious about 
the issues of national security at our own borders.
    I want to ask a couple of questions and I will submit more 
in writing, but I would like an insurance, and maybe this comes 
from you, Secretary Austin, of a commitment; I want to make 
certain that as we assist Ukraine, we are assisting Ukraine in 
a way that allows them to succeed. I do not want this to be 
just a stalemate. I do not want Ukraine to have the dollars 
necessary not to lose. I want Ukraine, with our help and 
others, to have the opportunity with their capabilities, their 
own personnel, to win. What would be your response, Secretary 
Austin?
    Secretary Austin. My response would be--my response is, 
Senator, that is exactly what we are doing. If you go back to 
the beginning of this effort here, all of us were saying, or 
many of us were saying that Ukraine would not survive Russia's 
onslaught for more than 2 days. So here we are a year later and 
not only have they defeated Russia in a number of battles, but 
they have gained--regained 50 percent of the territory that 
Russia initially occupied.
    And Putin is a strategic failure right now. He has not 
achieved any strategic objective that he set out to achieve. He 
never conquered Kyiv. He has been stuck, essentially, in the 
same place in terms of his frontline trace on the battlefield 
for a long time now. I think that based upon where they started 
and where we are now, and what they continue to do, I would say 
that Ukrainians have made remarkable progress.
    And our goal is to make sure that they can continue to do 
that. So we are talking to them every week. I am talking to my 
counterpart every week to ascertain what his requirements are, 
and we are moving with urgency to make sure that we can fill 
those requirements where possible.
    Senator Moran. Secretary Austin, tell me, if you would, 
tell us, how does a failure to fund Ukraine embolden China, 
embolden Iran, embolden Hamas, embolden Russia? We have had 
circumstances in our history, including recent history, at 
least in my view, in which we sent a message to the world that 
we are not a faithful ally, and to our enemies, to our 
adversaries that we are not a threat. Would the failure to fund 
Ukraine in this circumstance meet that criteria in which we 
fail to demonstrate our capabilities, our willingness, our 
statuitis, and what would be the consequences of that message 
being sent?
    As you know, there are those who say that we should be 
focused on someplace else besides Ukraine. But doesn't our 
failure to focus on Ukraine create huge and significant 
problems elsewhere in the world with our adversaries, and 
diminish the support of our allies?
    Secretary Austin. I think it sends a horrible message to 
our adversaries, Senator. I think, you know, our adversaries 
would like to build a narrative that we are not a trustworthy 
ally or partner, and we see some of that beginning to play out 
in the media space right now. They are seeking to take 
advantage of every opportunity, and they would like to prove 
that the United States is something else other than it is. And 
we are the world's most reliable ally or partner, and I think 
it is necessary to demonstrate that we are going to stick by 
our partners.
    Senator Moran. Is it more than coincidence that we have so 
many challenges in this world all occurring now at the same 
time?
    Secretary Austin. I think a number of things have come 
together to cause what we are seeing happen, but certainly a 
failure, on our part, to follow through in support of our 
allies or partners exacerbates some of the things that we are 
seeing right now.
    Senator Moran. Thank you, sir.
    Chair Murray. Thank you.
    Senator Tester.
    Senator Tester. I want to thank the Chairman and Ranking 
Member. I want to thank both of you, Secretaries, for being 
here today. I appreciate the work you do. I appreciate the 
difficulty of the work you do. I want to touch quickly on why 
we are here, and that is a supplemental to help Israel and help 
Ukraine with humanitarian aid and infrastructure money for subs 
in particular.
    I want to start by saying the attack on October 7th by 
Hamas on Israel was horrific, and it is critical that we 
provide our ally with the necessary tools to defeat Hamas. And 
I want to thank you two for working in that way because we 
cannot allow terror and enemies of democracy to win. And that 
is why it is critical that this committee shows the leadership 
so Congress can deliver a package that supports Israel and 
counters Vladimir Putin.
    I happen to believe that America is the greatest country 
that is ever existed on the face of the earth, and we need to 
support Israel. We need to make sure we are standing up to 
Russia. And I think we are able to walk and chew gum at the 
same time.
    I want to be very clear today as Chairman of the Defense 
subcommittee that sets the Defense Department's budget, I will 
be working with Republicans and Democrats and colleagues to 
deliver a package that replenishes America's weapon stock, 
supports our democratic allies, and sends a clear message to 
the enemies of freedom and democracy that they will not 
prevail.
    My question is this, and this for you Secretary Austin: Can 
you talk about of the supplemental requests for Ukraine: how 
much of that is staying here to resupply our industrial base in 
this country, is being spent in this country for our security 
to replenish that industrial base?
    Secretary Austin. For Ukraine?
    Senator Tester. Yes.
    Secretary Austin. Okay. So thanks, Senator. We are asking 
for $44.4 billion in support of Ukraine. Some $18 billion of 
that amount goes to--enable us to replenish our stocks, and so 
we would buy--we would purchase American weapons and munitions 
from American companies to do that. $12 billion of that amount 
goes to support the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative. And 
so this is buying new products, new weapons, new munitions from 
American companies. $5 billion of that supports our troops who 
are currently deployed overseas. We surged a number of brigades 
to Europe as this began, and we have to sustain them. And then 
$2.7 billion of that amount goes to expansion of facilities to 
increase capacity and accelerate production of critical 
munitions. And then finally, $1 billion for the acquisition of 
critical defense articles, which includes munitions as well. So 
this money is going right back into the coffers of America, and 
it is going to create jobs, it is going to sustain jobs, and it 
is going to provide opportunities for Americans.
    I think you know, Senator, that the first four 
supplementals that we asked you for, and we received bipartisan 
support on, over $27 billion of that money that we received was 
invested in some--over 30 States here in the United States. And 
I think that is real money going in the pockets of Americans.
    Senator Tester. And in the end, the supplemental will make 
the United States stronger, correct?
    Secretary Austin. That is correct, Senator.
    Senator Tester. We have heard a lot about whether Ukraine 
really needs some money or not. I listened to a talk show this 
weekend, and they said there is not the urgency like there is 
in Israel. I think there is urgency on both, by the way. Could 
you talk to me about, if we do not pass supplemental that 
includes Ukraine, how long Ukraine has before Putin becomes 
successful?
    Secretary Austin. It is hard to put an exact timeline on 
how long it would take, Senator, but I can guarantee you that 
without our support, Putin will be successful. And while the 
Ukrainians have done amazing work with our help in terms of the 
things that we provided them, if we pull the rug out from under 
them now, Putin will only get stronger, and he will be 
successful in doing what he wants to do in acquiring his 
neighbor's sovereign territory.
    Senator Tester. I would just hope that this committee shows 
the leadership that I know we have, sitting on both sides of 
the dais, to do the right thing here, and get a supplemental 
out that works for our national security. Thank you, Madam 
Chair.
    Chair Murray. Senator Hoeven.
    Senator Hoeven. Thank you, Madam Chair. We need to support 
Israel. There is no question about it. They are fighting for 
their very existence. We see that, and we need to--clearly, we 
need to help them and support them, not just in this package, 
but beyond that. I believe we also need to support Ukraine.
    When you look at history, we understand very clearly that 
tyrants, like Putin, do not stop. They have to be stopped. So 
we need to do those things, but we also need to secure the 
homeland, and that means securing our border. And there is 
about $14 billion, $13.6 billion in this package requested 
relative to the border and immigration.
    Secretary Blinken, last month, 270,000 illegal encounters, 
of people trying to cross illegally at the southern border. 
That is a record, 2\1/2\ million last year, and 169 individuals 
trying to cross that are on the terrorist watch list. Border 
security is national security, and I am trying to understand 
how $14 billion to house, transport, and provide other services 
to individuals coming here illegally, won't just encourage more 
to come?
    So my question to you is how is it that you are going to 
assure us here today, and will ask Secretary Mayorkas in a 
week, that you are going to secure the southern border? Because 
I think for a lot of folks, when we are talking about national 
security, they want to see how that is going to happen. And we 
are going to want to be assured of that. How are you going to 
assure us that this is going to actually happen? That it is not 
$14 billion for more people to come here illegally?
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you, Senator. First, I think it is 
important to put this in very brief perspective which is we are 
facing a migration challenge around the world of historic 
proportions. We have got more people on the move, displaced 
from their homes around the world than ever before. Ever since 
we have been actually keeping the numbers on this, more than 
100 million people in our own hemisphere, it is somewhere 
between 20 and 25 million people. And it used to be that we 
would have one crisis at a time. It might be Cuba. It might be 
Haiti. Now we have got Cuba, Haiti, Venezuela, Honduras, El 
Salvador, Guatemala, Ecuador, Columbia, and so on down the 
list, Nicaragua. And then people coming to our hemisphere from 
outside the hemisphere trying to get into the United States.
    My piece of this--our piece of this at the State Department 
is the work that we are doing with countries throughout our 
hemisphere, for them to step up and take shared responsibility 
for this problem. And that means among many other things, 
making sure that they themselves have asylum assistance that 
works for the people of the----
    Senator Hoeven. With all due respect, Secretary, we 
understand that. How are you going to assure us that you are 
going to stop the flow of illegal crossings at our southern 
border? Will you give us that assurance, and will you quantify 
it?
    Secretary Blinken. We are working comprehensively----
    Senator Hoeven. Not just talking about the problem. Will 
you give us the assurance, and will you quantify it?
    Secretary Blinken. I would certainly defer to my colleagues 
at DHS and others who are working on the border itself. The 
piece that I am focused on is working with other countries in 
the region reduce the flow----
    Senator Hoeven. Is it your opinion we should enforce third 
safe--I am sorry, sir.
    Secretary Blinken. I am sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead, Senator.
    Senator Hoeven. Yeah. My time is limited here. Should we 
enforce third safe country and remain in Mexico protocols?
    Secretary Blinken. We should work with other countries and 
enforce every reasonable measure to make sure that the 
migratory flow is safe, orderly, and humane. That is what we 
are working on.
    Senator Hoeven. Secretary Austin, we have had more than 25 
attacks in the Middle East on our troops just since October 
7th. Why are we not striking back more forcefully? Why are we 
not delivering a resounding message to stop those strikes on 
our bases and on our troops?
    Secretary Austin. Thanks Senator. As I said, the protection 
of our troops, the safety of our troops is very, very important 
to me and the President. And we maintain the right to respond 
at a place and time of our choosing. And we have said that, and 
we are serious about that.
    Senator Hoeven. So we are to understand that we will strike 
back sufficiently, forcefully to stop these attacks?
    Secretary Austin. We will do what is necessary to protect 
our troops and deter this kind of behavior.
    Senator Hoeven. One follow-up question. Senator Moran asked 
about a strategy with Ukraine that brings this war to a 
successful conclusion. What is that strategy?
    Secretary Austin. Well, from our standpoint, want to make 
sure that Ukraine, at the end of the day, is a democratic, 
independent, sovereign country that can defend its territory 
and deter aggression. We also want to make sure that we keep 
NATO together, and I think the team has done an incredible job 
in making sure that we bring our allies and partners along.
    In terms of specific goals and objectives, you know, I 
would defer to the Ukrainian leadership to define that. But 
again, our goal is to make sure that we are providing the 
support to Ukraine to do what it needs to defend its territory.
    Senator Hoeven. We need to know that we have a strategy as 
part of this funding. I think it is very important in terms of 
building support for the funding for Ukraine. Thank you to you 
both. I appreciate it.
    Chair Murray. Senator Shaheen.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you Madam Chair, and Vice Chair for 
this hearing. And thank you to Secretary Blinken and Secretary 
Austin for being here at this really critical time throughout 
the world. Senator Graham and Senator Moran to some extent, 
both made the case for Hamas--for Iran funding Hamas, and 
Iran's malign activities across the Middle East, but can you 
also talk about why funding Ukraine aid is important to degrade 
Iran's activities as well?
    Secretary Austin or Blinken?
    Secretary Austin. As you know Senator, we have seen Iran 
provide munitions and drones to Russia, and Russia has used 
those capabilities to attack the Ukrainian infrastructure, 
attack civilians, and towns, and villages across the land. And 
so I think, you know, making sure that we are dialing back some 
of the capability--they are connected, so I think it will have 
an impact on what Iran is doing for Russia as well.
    Secretary Blinken. And Senator, I would only add that it is 
a two-way street. It is both the assistance that Iran is 
providing to Russia for use in Ukraine to further its 
aggression, but it is also increasingly technology that Russia 
is providing to Iran to make its own inventory more 
sophisticated that could and will almost certainly be used 
either against Israel or for that matter, potentially against 
us, against our forces, against our personnel, either directly 
or via Iranian proxies that are in the region.
    So this relationship, this two-way relationship is one of 
increasing concern to us, and one that we have to be acting 
against resolutely in both theaters, because they are closely 
linked.
    Senator Shaheen. I agree. I think it is very important for 
us to remind people that degrading Iran and their capabilities 
means not just supporting Israel, but it means supporting 
Ukraine as well.
    Last week I chaired a hearing of the European subcommittee 
on the Black Sea security. I think one of the things we have 
learned from this war in Ukraine is how important the Black Sea 
region is to so much of the world, and the fact that Ukraine 
actually literally--Ukraine's grain exports literally feed the 
world. So can you speak to the interconnectedness between the 
world's food security and Russia's war against Ukraine, and why 
that is very important? And what is going to happen if we are 
not able to continue to open up those grain corridors and 
provide the food that so many desperate nations and peoples 
need?
    Secretary Blinken. Senator, one of the many terrible 
consequences of Russia's aggression against Ukraine is the 
impact that it has had, far and wide, well beyond Ukraine, well 
beyond Europe, on people around the world, no more so than when 
it comes to food security. We all know that Ukraine has been 
the, or certainly one of the breadbaskets of the world. Its 
export of wheat, of grain, of other food products is essential 
to people in Africa, many other continents, both in terms of 
the supply of food and also the price of food.
    And in interrupting, in stopping the export of foods, and 
food products from Ukraine, particularly through the Black Sea, 
Russia has had a devastating impact on food security for people 
around the world. This never should have been necessary in the 
first place, the Black Sea Grain Initiative, because Russia 
never should have invaded Ukraine. And then once it did, it 
never should have blockaded Ukraine's ports and prevented it 
from exporting.
    But an arrangement was made, as you know very well led by 
the United Nations and Turkey to get an arrangement by which 
these products could be exported. And while that agreement was 
in force, while the Russians were respecting it, allowing it to 
go forward, some 30 million metric tons of wheat and grain were 
exported the equivalent of 18 billion loaves of bread. That is 
what was at stake. That is what has been now stopped by Russia 
refusing to allow that initiative to go forward.
    So we have been working with the Ukrainians, Europeans have 
been working with the Ukrainians to find other ways of getting 
these products out of Ukraine and to world markets, but nothing 
fully substitutes for the Black Sea. It is why you are so right 
to focus on it. And by the way, last thing I will say is we 
have, as a result of a lot of good work that has been done, and 
very good input from you and from others, a refined Black Sea 
strategy that we are also sharing with our allies and partners. 
I think this will be an important subject at the next NATO 
Summit that we will be hosting here in Washington.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you. And I am almost out of time. 
But I do want to ask you about the suggestion that is being 
floated that humanitarian aid is going to go through the UN, 
and the UN is going to take some funding off of that in ways 
that support the UN, and do not support the end goal of that 
aid. So can you just point out why that is not correct?
    Secretary Blinken. First of all, that is just quite 
literally and practically not the way it works. The Security 
Council is not involved in these--either the decisions about 
how the aid is used or distributed. It is individual UN 
agencies. Some of the critical UN agencies that are involved in 
providing assistance like UNICEF, like the International 
Organization for Migration, like the World Food Program, happen 
to be led, right now, by Americans, in fact three American 
women.
    And so we have great confidence in the ability of these 
agencies do the critical work that they need to do, and to do 
it in a way that makes sure the assistance they are providing 
gets to the folks who need it, not folks who do not need it.
    Senator Shaheen. Thank you.
    Chair Murray. Senator Boozman.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you all 
for being here. And I would like to talk a little bit about 
what I think is really the underpinning of our own defense 
security and our ability to provide aid to others, aid to our 
partners, and that is our procurement ability. It is not 
glamorous, but it really is so, so very important.
    I have learned a lot about it through working with Senator 
Murray on our military construction efforts, but also Camden in 
Arkansas is a major player in that space, and they are working 
really hard. The people of Arkansas, the people of Camden have 
really stepped up.
    Secretary Austin, 2 years ago in the fiscal year '23 DOD 
budget hearing, I asked you about possible ways we could 
strengthen our industrial base to ensure we meet the current 
day demands and replenish our stockpiles. Since then, from your 
perspective, how has the industry responded? How is it 
performing? Are we making the right adjustments and doing so 
fast enough?
    Secretary Austin. Well thanks, Senator. I will begin by 
saying that I am committed to making--continuing to do the 
right things to make sure that we are working with industry to 
expand capacity where appropriate. We engaged in an industry 
early on as this conflict in Ukraine started, and for the most 
part--well, in all cases, the leaders of industry were very, 
very helpful, very willing to increase production, increase 
capacity. And so we have some good examples of that great work.
    In terms of whether or not it is fast enough, if you are 
me, it can never be fast enough. If you are a Ukrainian, you 
can never get it there fast enough. But there are some 
limitations in terms of how quickly they can do certain things. 
There will continue to be workforce challenges, and when you 
expand capacity, you know, there is this--I mean, there is this 
issue of the time that it takes to build the capacity, and then 
make sure that the lines are running smoothly.
    Now, what they have done in a lot of cases to meet urgent 
needs is double and triple shifts so that they can, you know, 
in some cases crank out the munitions and weapons at a much 
greater speed. So the corporation that we have enjoyed 
throughout, I think has been really, really good. And we are in 
contact with industry leadership nearly daily, and my Under for 
Acquisition and Sustainment is engaging on a daily basis, and I 
meet with them frequently. So they are doing the right things, 
they are being very, very helpful, but it can never move fast 
enough, to answer your question.
    Senator Boozman. So with all the global demand now and then 
the possibilities of looking into the future, you know, with 
such an uncertain world, we have had this global demand for 
short range rocket motors, PAC-3 missiles, HIMARS (High 
Mobility Artillery Rocket System), Javelin, Stingers, 155 
military artillery rounds. Do you feel that the request 
replenishes current stockpiles to an appropriate level while, 
simultaneously, fulfilling current day demands? Do you feel 
industry is able to meet the high request if needed?
    Secretary Austin. I do. I think what we have in this 
request is the right amount. And I would say that we are going 
after capability as fast as industry can produce it. And so we 
have asked you for $3 billion as a part of this request to 
invest in helping to expand that capacity with industry. But it 
is a thing that we need to continue to work with.
    Senator Boozman. So regarding the Israel portion of the 
supplemental, related to the Iron Dome request, the language is 
structured as a transfer to Israel. I am hearing from industry 
that they are currently lacking the investment to help quickly 
accelerate rocket motor production for the interceptor missile 
to meet the new increased demand. The Ukraine portion of the 
request includes language allowing appropriated dollars to 
support infrastructure investments to accelerate production, 
should we include similar language to support infrastructure 
investments to help meet the interceptor missile demands?
    Secretary Austin. Senator, as a general rule, we are going 
to do everything that we can to meet the demands that we see in 
both Ukraine and Israel. As you know, this is the munition that 
you are addressing is a co-produced munition.
    Senator Boozman. Right.
    Secretary Austin. And so the American company that produces 
that munition is a company that I once worked for, so I will 
have to take that question for the record, rather than answer.
    Senator Boozman. Thank you. I do not have time to address 
the question, but as Ranking Member on Agriculture, I am 
concerned about Russia using food as a weapon. So that is for 
what it is worth. Thank you.
    Secretary Blinken. I share that concern.
    Chair Murray. Senator Merkley.
    Senator Merkley. Thank you, Madam Chair, and welcome to 
both of you.
    Secretary Blinken, in your testimony you talked about the 
worsening humanitarian catastrophe, and how the humanitarian 
challenges are relevant to our deeply held principles, that 
every civilian life is equally worthy of protection, and that a 
failure on humanitarian relief could make the conflict more 
likely to spread. I was heartened to hear that Israel has 
agreed to facilitating 100 trucks a day of aid in, but senior 
UN and humanitarian agencies, senior personnel, both, have said 
that Rafah crossing is not equipped for that type of logistical 
operation. And that the place where the 500 trucks before came, 
was primarily through Kerem Shalom, which is also on the border 
with Egypt. But it is set up to facilitate large amounts of 
trucks getting through.
    Are we pushing to really solve, for Israel to solve the 
logistic problems so we can actually get--and 100 trucks, 
really, it is one-fifth of what was supplying Gaza before. So 
that is really just the ultimate minimum, but much more is 
needed. Are we pushing to solve, have Israel solve those 
logistical problems quickly to get that humanitarian relief in?
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you, Senator. We are looking at 
every means possible to get assistance into Gaza. I think one 
of the challenges we have, is while we fully agree that even 
100 trucks, and we are still not there, and we want to get 
there as quickly as possible, is not going to fully meet the 
needs, there is also an absorptive capacity problem on the Gaza 
side given the conflict, given the horrific disruptions that we 
are seeing.
    So even if you could get trucks well above 100 going in, 
you need to have, on the receiving end, the capacity to 
actually both take and distribute that assistance. That is also 
lacking. So we have got to work on that too.
    Senator Merkley. Right. That is true, but are we pushing--I 
am just looking for a yes or no, to use the additional 
logistical capacity that is at Kerem Shalom?
    Secretary Blinken. Right now, our focus is on maximizing 
what we can do through Rafah, but even as we are doing that, we 
will look at other ways to get assistance in.
    Senator Merkley. Thank you. I am very concerned on the 
testimony of other experts that that is going to be very hard, 
and the moment is like right now, hunger rising, thirst rising, 
the potential for disease and conversations with Red Cross and 
others, huge, because of the contaminated water, possibility of 
cholera, et cetera.
    I am going to turn to an article by Thomas Friedman on 
October 19th; he said, ``If Israel rushes headlong into Gaza to 
destroy Hamas, and does so without expressing a commitment to 
seek a two-state solution with the Palestinian authority, and 
end Jewish settlements deep in the West Bank, will be marking a 
grave mistake, that will be devastating for Israeli interests 
and for American interests.'' And he notes that the impacts 
include fanning the flames in the West Bank, a risk of a 
broader war with Hezbollah and Lebanon, eliminating the 
possibility of any coalition governing Gaza, after all this 
passes. Including whether it is Palestinian, Arab League, UN, 
NATO, so forth, and destroying the probability of normalization 
between Israel and Saudi Arabia.
    That is quite a set of American interests. Do you share 
Thomas Friedman's concern that without a vision of a two-state 
solution to address the prosperity, and thriving and 
Palestinian aspirations, that were locked into hostilities that 
will haunt us forever?
    Secretary Blinken. It has been the policy of this 
administration from day one to support and try to put in place 
the conditions to actually get to a two-state solution. We 
believe that is the only way to truly ensure Israel's security 
as a Jewish and democratic state, and to give Palestinians the 
state to which they are entitled. So we believe that that is 
essential.
    At the same time, we have been working very hard to both 
deepen and expand the process of normalization between Israel 
and its neighbors, both far and wide and these things not 
only----
    Senator Merkley. Thank you. Also, one more question. I 
support the two-state solution, but I think the----
    Secretary Blinken. Go ahead.
    Senator Merkley. Facts on the ground are making it more and 
more difficult. And I agree with Friedman's analysis that 
policy has to change around settlements in order for that to be 
a possibility.
    I want to close with a question related to getting the 
Americans out, the families who are there. I have an Oregon 
family, they relayed to me how they three times gotten a text 
message, email saying, ``Drop everything, go to the Rafah 
crossing.'' They waited until dark each time, nothing happened. 
They were not interfered with by Hamas, just the gate never 
opened.
    NBC has reported on another family in Massachusetts, the 
Medway family, very, very--almost parallel experience. With the 
trucks coming in, why can't at the same time we get those 
families, those American families who were lined up at the 
gate, having received notices from the United States to do so. 
Why can't we get them out that gate?
    Secretary Blinken. Senator, as I mentioned earlier, this is 
something we are working on every single day. We want to get 
our fellow citizens out, and we are trying to find a way to do 
that. To date the impediment has been Hamas. And I regret very 
much that we have had occasions where we thought that we would 
be able to move forward, which is one of the reasons we were in 
contact with people and suggested that they get in place to do 
that, only to find that the necessary procedures that had to be 
put in place to actually make that work could not go forward, 
and Hamas has been the impediment to that.
    We continue to work on it. We are working on it with Egypt, 
we are working on it with Israel. We are looking for ways to 
get people out, but because Hamas controls what goes on, for 
the most part, inside of Gaza, unless it agrees, then it is 
going to be very difficult to get that done.
    Chair Murray. Thank you.
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you.
    Chair Murray. Senator Moore Capito.
    Senator Capito. Thank you. Thank you both for being here 
today. I think it is a very important hearing. I want to thank 
the Chair and Vice Chair for the hearing.
    I remain an adamant supporter of our allies in Israel, and 
believe that we should continue to back Ukraine against Russian 
aggression. You both made that point very clear, but I do 
believe that you have also made clear the point and emphasized 
how intertwined Ukraine and Israel are important to our own 
national security, but in your own statement, Secretary 
Blinken, in your statement you mentioned one little throwaway 
line here when you say: That includes addressing the 
hemispheric challenge of irregular migration; I am assuming you 
are talking about our southern border here.
    As has been reiterated, 269,000 last month, over 200 on the 
terror watch list. Americans are right to be extremely 
concerned about what is happening here and how it is 
intertwined with everything that is happening, globally, and we 
cannot lose sight of what we see. I am sure you, particularly 
Secretary Blinken, when you see the news of the anti-Semitic 
rallies that are occurring in our own country and across the 
globe, it is something I did not think we would ever see in our 
lifetime. And it is earth shattering.
    So can you make a better--will you please make a better 
case of why our own homeland security here, including our 
southern border, is figuring into the equations that you have 
brought us here today to talk about?
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you very much, Senator. And I 
appreciate as well your reference to the, as you said, almost 
unimaginable instances of anti-Semitism that we have seen, as 
well, by the way, as expressions of Islamophobia, and other 
bigotry that unfortunately horrifically surfaces, particularly 
in times like these.
    With regard to migration, as I mentioned earlier, we have a 
genuinely historic challenge. We have a historic challenge in 
our own hemisphere with nearly 25 million people on the move. 
What we are working to do, from the perspective of the State 
Department, is to work closely with other countries to get them 
to assume their share of responsibility in dealing with this 
migration, and that means--and it is in the budget----
    Senator Capito. With all due respect, it is not working. It 
is not working.
    Secretary Blinken. This is, as I said, a problem of truly 
historic proportions, requires a comprehensive effort that we 
are making. It also requires a lot of things including 
comprehensive immigration reform. The very first piece of 
legislation the President put before Congress would have done 
that. Unfortunately, it has not been addressed in the last 
three----
    Senator Capito. Here is what I am concerned about, and I 
think a lot, when you see the 200 from the terrorist list, I 
know we are all concerned about this, that seeds of foment of 
terrorism could grow in all of--as you see the sort of seeds of 
unrest in our own country. As we are watching Ukraine and we 
are watching Israel, we do not want to take the eye off the 
ball of what is actually happening here. And I am sure that 
nobody here wants to see that. I am concerned.
    I would like to go to another question for Secretary 
Austin, much like my fellow Senator from Arkansas, we do 
manufacture a lot of the munitions at Allegheny Ballistics 
Laboratory in West Virginia where we have over 1,600 people 
working there, and this supplemental does help build up that 
industrial base, and industrial production at that facility, 
and other facilities across the country. I guess when we see 
where we are now, would you say that we have learned a lot 
about our munition requirements because of what has happened in 
Ukraine? Or would you say that these were issues that had been, 
I guess, focused on at the Department of Defense, but we had 
not really realized where we were until we have to replenish 
everything that we have given away or sold and to be able to 
get our own capacity up to where we want it to be.
    Secretary Austin. Thanks, Senator. I want to be clear about 
the fact that we will maintain--we have maintained and we will 
continue to maintain adequate capability to protect our 
interests and defend this country. And so as we have drawn down 
some of our stocks to provide capability to others, it is 
important to replenish that so that we continue to have--
continue to maintain agility, and depth, so that we can respond 
to crisis like we have seen.
    But our ability to protect ourselves and protect our 
interests, we will never mortgage that. And we go through a 
process every week as we receive requests for assistance, and 
we measure what is being requested against what is required for 
our defense, and we make the right calls.
    In Ukraine's case, there are some 50 countries, as you 
know, that are working with us to provide security assistance. 
Israel, their requirement--their fight is a different fight, 
and their requirements are a bit different, and so, you know, 
they are using different types of things so we are able to meet 
both requirements. And so again, there is an urgent need to get 
the supplemental so that we can continue to do the things that 
you mentioned in terms of replenishing those stocks that give 
us that flexibility going forward.
    Senator Capito. Thank you.
    Vice Chair Collins [presiding]. Senator Coons.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Vice Chair Collins. And I will 
thank the Chair, in your absence. And our two important 
witnesses today, thank you for your timely and critical 
leadership in this hinge point in our role in the world and in 
human history.
    It is critical that we meet this moment and provide the 
full supplemental request presented to Congress by our 
President. And we have to sustain U.S. global leadership, and I 
would argue it is directly in our national security interests 
for us to stand up to tyrants and terrorists while meeting 
humanitarian needs to help stabilize critically impacted 
communities.
    The conflicts in Israel and in Ukraine are regional in 
nature, but they have global consequences. As the world 
questions whether the United States is a reliable, trustworthy 
ally, we have to fund our sustained presence in these fights.
    We have to see the global impact of a conflict like Ukraine 
that is having on global food security. We have to recognize we 
cannot just respond to Russian aggression in Europe while 
Russian proxies are spreading instability around the world in 
places like Africa, and addressing just the humanitarian needs 
in the Middle East by cutting responses in this hemisphere is 
not in our interests. We have to address these challenges 
comprehensively.
    Secretary Blinken, if I could, I just briefly want to ask 
you, humanitarian relief has long been bipartisan. There are 
some who are questioning whether we are spending too much, 
whether we are preventing diversion to terrorists, you have 
addressed that previously. I have been reassured to hear 
directly from Israeli representatives, they value humanitarian 
relief in the middle of this conflict.
    You are only asking for us to sustain our current year 
funding going forward and it will provide humanitarian relief 
across dozens of countries around the world that are facing 
threats of instability. Could you speak to the strategic value 
of our continued humanitarian relief leadership?
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you very much, Senator. And I 
appreciate the fact you have underscored that what we are 
looking at is to sustain what we have already been doing, and 
also making the point that, yes, this would be vital for 
Ukraine, it would be vital for people in Gaza, but also this 
would cover situations that we have to address in Sudan, in 
Afghanistan, Nagorno-Karabakh, and in other places.
    And I think, again, there are two things that are at stake 
here. One is, and I always lead with this because I think this 
really is who we are, is the imperative that America continue 
to be seen as the country that stands with those who 
desperately need assistance at the most critical time. And this 
goes to, I think, an impulse that most Americans feel, to help. 
But it is also a critical strategic proposition.
    I will give you one example. It is imperative that Hamas be 
defeated, and it is imperative that Hamas no longer posed the 
threat that it has posed so acutely to Israel, but there is 
military defeat, there is also ideological defeat, you cannot 
kill an idea no matter how perverted and distorted it is. You 
have to be able to offer a better alternative to people who are 
in desperate straits.
    Our ability, our willingness to be leading the effort to 
help them deal with the acute challenges they face in their 
lives, as well as offering a genuine vision for how life can be 
better is a vital strategic interest of ours. You are not going 
to----
    Senator Coons. Another key piece of the support package, if 
I might, Mr. Secretary, is the non-lethal support to Ukraine.
    Secretary Blinken. That is right.
    Senator Coons. We are providing a significant amount, 
although our European partners are providing dramatically more. 
We are not just sending weapons we are sustaining Ukraine's 
ability to have a robust economy and government. How critical 
to Ukraine's sustained war effort and to Ukraine's independence 
is this ongoing non-lethal budget support? I would be 
interested in hearing a brief response from both witnesses 
about it.
    Secretary Blinken. It is essential to Ukraine's success and 
here is why. Russia is doing two things, it is trying to go at 
Ukraine on the battlefield, and as you have heard the Secretary 
say, Ukraine has had remarkable success. Again, thanks to so 
much support from Congress over the last year-and-a-half and 
getting back 50 percent of the territory seized from it. And of 
course there is an ongoing intense battle now in the east and 
the south.
    But Russia is also going at what it sees as the soft 
underbelly of Ukraine, and that is, its electric grids, its 
ability to produce and export food, its basic infrastructure. 
This is another way by which, basically, Putin hopes to sap the 
will and defeat Ukraine. The assistance that we are providing 
to make sure that it can secure and provide energy for its own 
people, that it can sustain its agricultural system, that it 
can sustain its economy, and grow its economy to the point 
where it has got a rising tax base. It can pay increasingly for 
its own defense and deterrence. Those are absolutely essential 
to making sure that it succeeds in this war effort.
    Senator Coons. I will summarize if I might. Secretary, if 
we only send weapons to Ukraine, but we fail to support their 
government and their economy, they will lose to Putin's 
aggression nonetheless. Is that correct, Mr. Secretary?
    Secretary Austin. I absolutely agree, Senator.
    Senator Coons. A closing quick point. There is $2 billion 
in this request for support for the Treasury Department to work 
with the IMF (International Monetary Fund) and the World Bank. 
It would unlock $50 billion in support. I hope my colleagues 
will look closely at the ways that that would allow us to 
support critical allies like Egypt, and Jordan, as well as 
other countries around the region and world that are facing 
instability because of the war in Ukraine. Thank you and thank 
you for the chance to be with you.
    Vice Chair Collins. Senator Kennedy.
    Senator Kennedy. Secretary Austin. Is it not true that the 
world is on fire in Ukraine, the world is on fire in the Middle 
East, and that there are embers smoldering in the Indo-Pacific?
    Secretary Austin. I would say that clearly there are 
challenges in both the places that you mentioned. Of course in 
the Indo-Pacific we see a China that is increasingly 
aggressive.
    Senator Kennedy. Do you disagree with my statement?
    Secretary Austin. That the world is on fire? I would 
describe it a bit differently. I agree with your premise that 
it is as challenging as the----
    Senator Kennedy. Is it not true--sorry to cut you off, but 
we only have limited time. Is it not true that China, Russia, 
and Iran have worked between and among themselves to either, 
start those fires, encourage those fires, or create those 
embers?
    Secretary Austin. I would say that we see evidence of them 
growing closer together since the beginning of the Russia-
Ukraine conflict. I would not--I did not see evidence of China 
collaborating with Russia to cause them to launch their 
invasion on its neighbor.
    Senator Kennedy. Is it not true that China, Russia, and 
Iran would like to see Russia dominate Central and Eastern 
Europe?
    Secretary Austin. I think China would like to see the 
United States be unsuccessful. They would like to see Russia 
continue to challenge us and keep us, you know, focused on that 
area so that we have less time and energy and resources to 
focus on our----
    Senator Kennedy. Well, the situation I just described, I 
appreciate you parsing your words, but the situation I just 
described would not disappoint China, Russia, or Iran would it?
    Secretary Austin. I am certain that it would not.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. Is it not true that China, Russia, 
and Iran would like to see Iran dominate the Middle East?
    Secretary Austin. I certainly believe that Iran would like 
to see Iran dominate the Middle East, but the----
    Senator Kennedy. Do you think that would break China's 
heart or Russia's heart to see Iran dominate the Middle East?
    Secretary Austin. I do not think Russia or China would be 
unhappy about that, but----
    Senator Kennedy. Is it not true that China, Iran, and 
Russia would like to see China dominate the Indo-Pacific and be 
free to make moves in Sub-Sahara Africa and South America; is 
that not true?
    Secretary Austin. I think that is certainly China's goal, 
to be the dominant player in the Indo-Pacific.
    Senator Kennedy. And that is not a world safe for democracy 
is it?
    Secretary Austin. It is not. It is one that would be 
controlled by autocrats, eventually, if they were to dominate 
the Indo-Pacific, and if Iran dominated activities in the 
region.
    Senator Kennedy. And if we did not stop them----strike 
that. Do you believe that weakness invites the wolves?
    Secretary Austin. I do. I think deterrence, in order to 
deter you have to show strength.
    Senator Kennedy. And if we do not meet these challenges 
now, do you believe it will be more expensive in terms of 
America blood and treasure to meet them later?
    Secretary Austin. I do. I do, Senator.
    Senator Kennedy. And I have got one last question. Mr. 
Secretary, I am looking at your and the President's proposed 
supplemental. What does $16 billion for childcare, $6.5 billion 
for the Federal Communications Commission to extend high-speed 
Internet, and $3.1 billion for the FCC to reimburse 
telecommunication companies to replace insecure equipment have 
to do with the world challenges we are facing right now? And 
why did you make this request?
    Secretary Blinken. I would defer to other colleagues on 
those specific aspects of the budget request.
    Senator Kennedy. Do you support those?
    Secretary Blinken. I support the supplemental budget 
request.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. Last question, Mr. Secretary. I 
appreciate your candid answers, but why did the Department of 
Defense oppose my bill calling for a special inspector general 
in Ukraine so we could follow every penny of American taxpayer 
money? Given the fact that the Inspector General of the 
Department of Defense has never been able to audit his own 
Department?
    Secretary Austin. The Inspector General of DOD has been 
involved in this effort from the very beginning.
    Senator Kennedy. Oh, I know. Believe me. He opposed my 
bill, and I find that ironic because the Department of Defense 
is the only Federal agency that has never, in the history of 
ever, been audited. But your Inspector General insisted that he 
be in charge. Do you not see the irony there with respect to 
Ukraine?
    Secretary Austin. Senator, I am confident that our 
Inspector General will do a great job in making sure that we 
remain on track with our responsibilities in Ukraine, in 
Ukraine and in Europe.
    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chair Murray [presiding]. Senator Schatz.
    Senator Schatz. Thank you, Chair and Vice Chair. Thank you, 
Secretaries, for being here. I do not think there is anyone on 
this dais who would disagree that we are in a fight against 
global fascism, and that what happened in Israel is Israel's 9/
11. It causes anguish, it causes outrage, and hopefully we can 
achieve some collective moral clarity about moving forward.
    But Secretary Austin, I want to ask you about the post-9/11 
period in the United States. It seems to me that that 
collective anguish, and outrage, and moral clarity converted 
itself into some bad strategic decisions that we are still 
dealing with in the region. And so my question for you is: What 
kind of strategic advice are you giving to your Israeli 
counterparts about avoiding the mistakes that we made in the 
past?
    Secretary Austin. Thanks, Senator; great question. And I 
have had those conversations with my counterpart, and my advice 
to them--to him was to be thoughtful about, you know, actions, 
and objectives, and what they were trying to accomplish. And 
really think that through because if you do not, then the 
consequences can be long-lasting. And so we have shared that 
with them on a number of occasions, and hopefully that has made 
a difference.
    Senator Schatz. Do you think Israel has completed its 
strategic deliberations about what comes next?
    Secretary Austin. I do not know for sure, Senator Schatz, 
if they have, because I am not privy to their internal cabinet 
discussions. But I certainly would say that from the very 
beginning I have encouraged them to think about what this looks 
like at the end of the day, what this transitions to. And 
really to begin to think through many of the things that 
Secretary Blinken mentioned earlier, because I think that is 
really important. If you do not, if you do not things to 
address the underlying causes of instability, then you create a 
bigger problem, or you have a lasting problem that, you know, 
will just go on forever and ever.
    Senator Schatz. Secretary Blinken, let us do a thought 
experiment. Hamas, at some point in the future is disabled, I 
think eliminating, it is a rhetorical flourish that puts us in 
a position where we will never stop fighting against some 
offshoot, some first-cousin of Hamas someplace on the planet. 
So let us stipulate that the objective is to disable them to 
the point where they cannot pose a threat. Who runs Gaza?
    Secretary Blinken. Well, I think we have two shoals, if you 
will. One is we cannot have a reversion of the status quo with 
Hamas running Gaza. We also cannot have, and the Israelis start 
with this proposition themselves, Israel running or controlling 
Gaza. That is not their intent. That is not what they want to 
do, and it is not something that would be supported. So in 
between those shoals are a variety of possible permutations 
that we are looking at very closely now, as are other 
countries. At some point----
    Senator Schatz. And sometimes----
    Secretary Blinken. Let me be more precise.
    Senator Schatz. Sure.
    Secretary Blinken. At some point, what would make the most 
sense would be for an effective and revitalized Palestinian 
authority to have governance and ultimately security 
responsibility for Gaza. Whether you can get there in one step 
is a big question that we have to look at. And if you cannot, 
then there are other temporary arrangements that may involve a 
number of other countries in the region, it may involve 
international agencies that would help provide for both 
security and governance.
    Ultimately though, beyond that is what we come back to, 
what this administration believes, which is the imperative of 
getting to two states for two peoples. That is where you 
finally get the kind of sustained security that the Jewish and 
Democratic State of Israel needs and must have. And you also 
get the state that the Palestinians are entitled to.
    Senator Schatz. I think you are both being very thoughtful 
about this, I want to say that, but I think the worry that I 
have, and I have heard it around, bouncing around the halls of 
the Capitol, is that when we ask about what the end state is, 
what I have heard is: Well, we did not ask what the end state 
was in World War II, we just went ahead and fought the bad guys 
and let the--and let us sort it out later.
    I am not sure that is satisfactory in this instance. And I 
think the question of what the end state is ought to be 
wrestled with, at least simultaneously, and in an ideal 
situation, proceed the military strategy, because what are we 
even fighting towards if we do not know what the political 
objective is?
    Secretary Blinken. Senator, I think you are absolutely 
right. And just to reassure you somewhat, we are very much 
grappling with that. This is a very active, ongoing 
deliberation both within the government as well as with allies 
and partners including in the region. And everyone is focused 
on not only what is happening right now in Gaza, but exactly as 
you say, where this lands, where this goes.
    And in a way that fundamentally and materially changes two 
things. It changes the security for Israel, and changes the 
situation for Palestinians who have been living under, well 
before October 7th, a Hamas regime that is, in so many ways, 
destroying their lives, misogynistic, repressive, and instead 
of spending the resources that it was getting to better the 
lives of Palestinians, spending them instead on building 
tunnels and building rockets so that it could attack Israel.
    We need to see a fundamental change in the circumstance of 
Palestinians living in Gaza, and we need to see a fundamental 
change, I think in the circumstance for Palestinians that gets 
to a State of their own.
    Senator Schatz. Thank you.
    Chair Murray. Senator Hyde-Smith.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank 
you both for being here. We know how critical that this hearing 
has been. And I certainly appreciate your contributions. Iran 
has long--has a long and well documented history of being the 
primary funder of Hamas. Iran has supplied Hamas with the 
funds, arms, missiles, drones, and other equipment, as well as 
training and technical expertise. I find it extremely hard to 
believe that Hamas would have carried out its brutal attack on 
Israel without Iran's knowledge.
    Secretary Austin, in the immediate aftermath of Hamas' 
attack, the administration claimed it did not have evidence 
that Iran was involved. Is this still this administration's 
position?
    Secretary Austin. It is. And from the standpoint of, we did 
not see direct involvement in the planning or the decision to 
execute this, on the part of Iran. Having said that, the point 
that you made earlier, Senator, that they have funded, 
resourced, enabled, trained Hamas operatives means that they 
have a big part in this, but in terms of their actual 
participation in the planning and the decision to conduct this 
attack, we did not see evidence of that.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. Do you think they are the puppet 
master?
    Secretary Austin. Well, I think they are--they certainly 
control a number of entities throughout the region, Shi'a 
Militia, Lebanese Hezbollah, and so that is what they do. They 
export mischief and use other people's resources to carry that 
out.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. And Iran continues to illegally sell 
more than 150 million in petroleum and petroleum products each 
day primarily to China. Iran uses these funds to support Hamas, 
Hezbollah, and other bad actors while oppressing the Iranian 
people. What more does this administration plan to do to 
curtail these sales? And I will direct that to you, Mr. 
Blinken.
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you very much, Senator. First, it 
is important to note that over the course of this 
administration we have sanctioned more than 400 Iranian 
individuals or entities for things like supporting Hamas, and 
that is something that continues to this very moment. We are 
very aggressively engaged in cracking down on financing and 
support for Hamas, wherever it is coming from, and including 
in, notably, Iran.
    We have also taken action against the so-called ``ghost 
shipping'' of oil and trying to cut off the proceeds from that, 
and going against different entities that are engaged in that 
kind of trafficking. And we have a very vigorous effort 
underway to make sure that, wherever we can, we are cutting off 
Iran from getting illegal proceeds that then turn around and go 
to finance terror, or go to finance its own activities.
    Senator Hyde-Smith. And continuing with, following the 
Hamas attack, the administration stated that it froze the $6 
billion in funds that were cleared for release to Iran in order 
to secure the release of Americans held hostage by Iran. Is 
this freeze permanent, and what mechanism is the United States 
using to freeze these funds?
    Secretary Blinken. So let us be very clear about this 
because it is important. I am afraid that some people have been 
misinformed and others may be misinforming about the $6 
billion. These are funds that accrued from the sale of Iranian 
oil over many years to an account in South Korea that was 
established by the previous administration. The proceeds were 
to be used under our laws and under our sanctions for 
humanitarian purposes. Those have never been prohibited by our 
sanctions against Iran.
    And indeed, the previous administration set up a mechanism 
to enable any oil proceeds that Iran was getting to be 
channeled to accounts where they could be controlled and only 
used for humanitarian purposes. The money in that South Korean 
account that accrued from the sale of these proceeds, for 
technical reasons, related to Korean banks, was unable to be 
used even though it lawfully could be. So it was moved to an 
account in Qatar where it could be used for human humanitarian 
purposes, just as the previous administration established 
another account in another country, for these very purposes.
    The money never goes, and would never go to Iran. It can 
only be used for authorized transactions overseen by our 
Treasury Department, and only for things like food, medicine, 
and other authorized humanitarian purposes. To date, not a 
single dollar has been expended from that account. There are 
currently no plans to expand a single dollar from that account, 
and in any event, that money never touches Iran directly.
    Chair Murray. Thank you.
    Senator Baldwin.
    Senator Baldwin. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you, 
Secretary Blinken and Secretary Austin for your service always, 
but especially at this moment. You have both commented through 
your opening statements and through questions about the 
interconnectedness of the elements of this supplemental 
package, support for Israel in its fight against Hamas, support 
for Ukraine in its efforts to repel Putin's invasion, support 
for humanitarian aid for displaced civilians, and those caught 
in the crossfire, a focus on our manufacturing sector and its 
workforce needs to ramp up production, among many other 
elements that this package has.
    You have also both answered questions about the urgency of 
congressional action, especially given the fact that House 
Republicans dropped funding for Ukraine from the current 
continuing resolution that is keeping Government running here 
in the United States. So against this backdrop, I was really 
taken aback to see calls in the House for dismantling this 
package and taking it up perhaps only one or two elements of 
the package.
    So in terms of urgency, President Zelenskyy told us, as 
Senator Durbin mentioned, when we met with him back in 
September that without our help Putin will prevail. And then 
again, that was followed by a pause in assistance during the 
current CR. So I just want to ask you, Secretary Austin, to 
tell this panel in no uncertain terms how urgent it is for us 
to pass this package, in its entirety, with respect to keeping 
Ukraine in this fight.
    Secretary Austin. Thanks, Senator. I think it is absolutely 
urgent. As you may have heard me say at the very top, they are 
in a fight. This is not a notional thing. They are fighting to 
protect their sovereign territory, they are fighting for their 
existence, and our help has enabled them to do what they have 
done to date, and they have made credible progress. They have 
impressed the world with their bravery, with their 
professionalism, with their determination, and so their goal is 
to take back as much of their sovereign territory as possible, 
and I think, you know, we need to provide them the ability to 
continue to do that, and we need to do that urgently.
    Senator Baldwin. Thank you. Secretary Blinken, I 
participated in the same briefing that Senator Merkley 
referenced earlier with the UN Relief and Works Agency, getting 
an update on the humanitarian situation in Gaza for those 
displaced, and literally, in the crossfire. Among the things we 
were hearing were just an assessment of what is happening in 
the hospital, the lack of medical supplies, anesthesia, things 
like that, and the dwindling, if any remains, in food stocks 
and storage.
    You have talked about our efforts to support increasing the 
number of supply trucks that are able to get in, but again, 
your own reflections that prior to October 7th and the 
terrorist attack on Israel, there were 5- to 800 trucks going 
in a day, and now we are at 50 to 60. How will this 
humanitarian aid package assist in our leadership in increasing 
that, and how urgent is it that we pass that part of the entire 
package?
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you very much, Senator. Look, from 
my perspective and our perspective, it is beyond urgent, 
precisely for the reasons that you cite. And we are trying to 
ramp up now to a 100 trucks, and my hope is that will happen 
this week. And as you pointed, as I pointed out earlier, that 
is still well less than what was happening before October 7th. 
But as I also mentioned on the Gaza side, even if we could get 
5- or 600 trucks, we have got an absorptive capacity challenge, 
in terms of the ability of folks on the ground, in Gaza, to 
actually receive the assistance, to distribute it, to use it 
effectively. So that also needs to be ramped up in the middle 
of a conflict, we are working on both ends to make that happen, 
but----
    Chair Murray. Mr. Secretary, I do not want to interrupt 
you. But I have been informed that you need to leave at 12:30. 
We have several Senators here who have not had an opportunity 
to speak. I want to make sure we keep everybody's time to 5 
minutes so they have that opportunity.
    Secretary Blinken. In any event, yes, it is very urgent. 
Thank you.
    Chair Murray. Senator Hagerty.
    Senator Hagerty. Thank you, Madam Chair. And welcome to 
both Secretaries.
    Secretary Blinken, I would like to start with you. I sent a 
letter last week to both yourself and to Administrator Powell 
asking for specific details on the funding that has gone into 
Gaza, the foreign assistance funding--U.S. taxpayer dollars, 
foreign assistance funding that has gone into Gaza, the 
recipients and the sub-recipients of that funding. Are you in a 
position to give me complete answers today to that?
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you, Senator. Yes, we have got the 
letter. We are working on it. You asked important and very 
detailed questions. We need some time to make sure that we are 
giving you the most robust and accurate answers possible. So in 
short, we will get that back to you.
    Senator Hagerty. At a high level, can you tell me the 
amount of funding, overall, under your watch, that has gone 
into Gaza?
    Secretary Blinken. So overall, we provided about a billion 
dollars in assistance to the Palestinians through the UN Works 
and Relief Agency.
    Senator Hagerty. That is a significant amount of money. I 
look forward to going through the detailed response, when you 
provide it.
    Secretary Blinken. Yes.
    Senator Hagerty. And I appreciate that commitment to do so 
in a timely fashion. I would like to tell you why I am asking 
this. I want to make certain that you can guarantee that not 
one dime of U.S. taxpayer funding is going to--the funding that 
is going to Gaza is going to benefit Hamas in their terrorist 
activities. Has that happened? And I think the question I would 
like to ask is can you guarantee us that no taxpayer money, no 
U.S. taxpayer money went to fund the attack that Hamas 
delivered in Israel on October the 7th?
    Secretary Blinken. So we have, and we have from day one, 
and we will obviously get back to you in response to this 
letter, a robust monitoring inspection verification system for 
the assistance that goes to any international organization, and 
including----
    Senator Hagerty. Can you guarantee though that U.S. 
taxpayer dollars did not go to Hamas to help fund this attack 
on October the 7th?
    Secretary Blinken. So everything that we are doing in terms 
of making sure that the assistance is used for purposes for 
which it is designated, not for other purposes, as I said, we 
have a robust system in place.
    Senator Hagerty. Can I share my concern with this, Mr. 
Secretary, to be more specific about this. In May of 2021, I 
traveled to Israel after the Eleven-Day War. I met with Prime 
Minister Netanyahu with his National Security Advisor, they 
briefed me and my team, on the fact that every humanitarian aid 
dollar, every foreign aid dollar that goes into Gaza is 
controlled by Hamas.
    They either direct it, they tax it, or they divert it, they 
even take pipes intended for the water system for civilians and 
turn those into rockets that are aimed at Israel. We have seen 
Hamas' own videos demonstrating this. So I want to come back 
and ask you, can you guarantee that U.S. taxpayer dollars were 
not used in October 7th attack?
    Secretary Blinken. What I can guarantee is that we take 
every possible precaution to ensure that these resources are 
not diverted. Second, we----
    Senator Hagerty. Let me come at it another way then, Mr. 
Secretary, because your own internal--your own State Department 
has made an internal assessment on this.
    Madam Chair, I would like to submit for the record a set of 
internal State Department emails from 2021 that were obtained 
via FOIA.
    Chair Murray. Without objection.
    [The information follows:]

[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    

    Senator Hagerty. And Secretary Blinken, I would like to 
specifically read from part of that the assessment of your own 
State Department in 2021 is that, quote, ``Due to Hamas' 
overall strength and level of control over Gaza, there is a 
high risk that Hamas could potentially derive indirect, 
unintentional benefit from U.S. assistance to Gaza.''
    Secretary Blinken, do you agree with this assessment?
    Secretary Blinken. I do. And here is the challenge that we 
face, Senator. We have in Gaza somewhere over 2 million people, 
the overwhelming majority of which, virtually everyone, not a 
member of Hamas, and indeed increasingly discussed----
    Senator Hagerty. I understand. I am talking about Hamas' 
control over the funds, not the citizenship there and with 
respect----
    Secretary Blinken. Well, no, but the support----
    Senator Hagerty [continuing]. To their control of funds, 
can you guarantee that the U.S. is not funding both sides of 
this war, Mr. Secretary?
    Secretary Blinken. It is important that the one agency that 
has the ability to operate either directly or through agencies 
that it works with, and that we have robust controls in place 
to ensure that the money is used----
    Senator Hagerty. Let me come back to this, because I need 
to reclaim my time. I am losing it. Israel has said that Hamas 
is diverting foreign aid. Hamas has even demonstrated that with 
their own videos. Your own department has warned about the high 
risk, and I have yet to see, but I hope to, that where the 
actual funds flow is coming to Hamas from our Government to 
Gaza.
    Secretary Blinken. We would also----
    Senator Hagerty. And I am deeply concerned here. And we 
need to be convinced that we are not funding both sides of this 
war, that U.S. taxpayers are not put in a position of funding a 
vicious cycle. And I think this Department--I mean I think your 
Department needs to confirm that with this committee. We need 
that level of detail so that as we appropriate a massive 
request for funding, we can assess the risk ourselves, Mr. 
Secretary.
    Secretary Blinken. And Senator, we will work with you on 
that, and we will get you the information. I want to respond as 
robustly as we can to your letter. I also want to make sure 
that we are doing everything we possibly can for the 1 million 
children in Gaza who desperately need food, medicine, support--
--
    Senator Hagerty. I hear you. I just do not want to see the 
U.S. taxpayer funding both sides of this war in Israel and 
Hamas.
    Chair Murray. Mr. Secretary, and I hate to interrupt and I 
know you will respond to that, but we want to make sure we get 
to all the senators that are here. Senator Murphy.
    Senator Murphy. Thank you Madam Chair. Secretary Blinken, 
Secretary Austin, we know you have been working around the 
clock to protect our friends in Israel and Ukraine. Thank you 
for your work. Thanks for being here.
    Secretary Blinken, I want to thank you. At the outset you 
described in really horrific detail what happened on October 
7th. I think it is important that we be absolutely clear the 
nature of this brutal terrorist attack. And I share with you 
the real worry that in this country and around the world, the 
memory of October 7th, just a few weeks in our rear view 
mirror, has disappeared. it is incredibly important for us to 
remind the world about how our Nation was changed after 
September 11th, and how Israel has been changed as well by 
this, and how we have an obligation to stand up for them.
    Secretary Austin, I wanted to talk to you as Senator Schatz 
did about the lessons that we have learned in our counter-
terrorism operations. I note a story from this weekend in The 
Washington Post entitled, ``U.S. Urges Israel Against Gaza 
Ground Invasion, Pushes Surgical Campaign''. I do not want to 
ask you about the confidential communications you have had with 
your Israeli counterparts, but one of the lessons that we have 
learned in our counterterrorism operations is that, not done 
well you can end up creating more terrorists than you kill, in 
particular when you are careless about civilian casualties.
    Those civilian casualties become terrorist fuel. They 
become bulletin board recruiting material for terrorist groups. 
And so there is a moral imperative to reduce civilian 
casualties, but there is also a strategic imperative. And so I 
want to ask you whether you have a worry that the nature of the 
Israeli ground operation, and the number of civilians that have 
been killed and will be killed could end up strengthening 
Hamas, or other affiliated anti-Israel terrorist groups in the 
long run?
    Secretary Austin. I agree with everything that you said, 
Senator. And that is a key lesson that we learned in our--in 
the fights that we fought over the last 20 years or so. That 
the things that you do on a battlefield could, if you are not 
thoughtful about them, they could create a resistance to your 
effort that lasts for generations, and so there is an 
operational and strategic imperative to make sure that we are 
doing the right things as we outline our objectives, and 
prescribe our techniques about how we are going to go about 
this. So we have had those conversations for exactly the 
right--the reasons that you mentioned.
    Senator Murphy. Secretary Austin, turning to Ukraine, I 
think the reason why many of us are so worried about splitting 
Ukraine aid and Israel aid is because there is an urgency, a 
real urgency in Ukraine right now. And we know that this place 
has trouble doing one difficult thing, never mind splitting it 
into two or three. I know that we are careful about talking 
about the urgency because we do not want to cause panic or 
damage morale in Ukraine, but I do think we have to be honest 
with the American people, and with this Senate about the 
consequences of not funding Ukraine.
    Admiral Rob Bauer of the Netherlands, who you know well, 
said that the bottom of the barrel is now visible. And so I 
just want to ask you a pointed question about ammunition. We 
are really getting to a point, very soon, where there are not 
bullets in the guns, and we need to be serious with our 
colleagues about the consequences for the rank and file 
soldiers in Ukraine, if we do not get this assistance soon. The 
need is dire, isn't it?
    Secretary Austin. It absolutely is, Senator. And again, 
this funds artillery munitions, small arms munitions, you name 
it, and they desperately need a constant supply of warfighting 
capability in order to be successful. You know, we would like 
to see them continue their operations through the winter. I 
think that is an imperative. They cannot do that if we have 
caused them to pause because there is a pause in the security 
assistance that we provide.
    Senator Murphy. 30 seconds, Secretary Blinken, fuel into 
Gaza. Do we have a process to deliver fuel into Gaza that 
assures that it does not get diverted to Hamas?
    Secretary Blinken. We are working urgently on that. I will 
say two things very quickly about it. First, Hamas has its own 
supply, stockpile of fuel. If it cared a wit about the people 
of Gaza, it would make sure, itself, that it use that fuel to 
have the hospitals be able to operate, have the incubators stay 
turned on, et cetera. But of course it does not. And we have an 
obligation to do everything we can, if Hamas is not going to do 
it, to look out for people in Gaza.
    So we are working on a mechanism that can get fuel to where 
it is needed, particularly to hospitals, bakeries, desalination 
plants, so the people can----
    Chair Murray. Mr. Secretary, I am going to have to 
interrupt you because, again, you have informed us you need to 
leave, and I want to make sure as many Senators as possible 
have time. Senator Britt.
    Senator Britt. Thank you so much Madam Chairman. I would 
like to start by telling you and the Vice Chair how much we 
appreciate you holding this hearing. It is critically important 
that we have the opportunity to ask tough questions, to get 
answers for the American people and to do our job. You allowing 
us to be here today will certainly make great strides towards 
that.
    Thank you both for being here before this committee. Before 
we start in on talking about some of the topics that we are 
here to talk about today, I want to make sure that we make a 
point on our border. So the National Defense Strategy of our 
Nation promises that, first, we will defend our homeland.
    In order to do that, we must secure our border when we are 
talking about the number of people here, and the number of 
countries. Secretary Blinken, I would like to add to the 
countries that you just said, we have people from Iran, people 
from Syria, people from Yemen, people from Jordan, people from 
Lebanon. We know the foothold that Iran has in so many of these 
nations.
    Now, these were the people that we have encountered at the 
border. There exists a problem that we have 1.7 million got-
aways into this nation, where we do not know who they are, 
where they are going, or what their intentions are. As we see 
anti-Semitic behavior rise, not only across the oceans, but 
here in this Nation, we must do every single thing that we can 
to keep our homeland safe. And that starts with securing our 
border.
    When we look at what is happening in Israel and the 
atrocities, I want to thank both of you for going and putting 
boots on the ground immediately, telling our friends and 
greatest ally in the Middle East, Israel, that we stand 
shoulder-to-shoulder with them, particularly in the face of 
these barbaric atrocities that occurred on October 7th.
    Secretary Blinken, thank you for what you just said. 
Talking about what actually happened. I hope that every media 
outlet plays what you testified to earlier, and that is that we 
have seen men with their eyeballs gouged out. We saw children 
watch their parents be executed. We saw families at their 
breakfast table be tortured and murdered.
    This must stop. And in order for people in this Israel to 
be able to tuck their children in at night, and people across 
this globe, we must eradicate Hamas. In doing so, we have got 
to take the threat of Iran seriously and what they have been 
doing across the globe, what they have been funding, who they 
have been training.
    You said earlier, Secretary Blinken, you agreed with 
Senator Graham that the normalization efforts with Saudi and 
Israel, that that was one of the links in the chain that led us 
to where we are today. My question for you is, do you agree 
that the strategy of what I would call, appeasement, from this 
administration that occurred starting with the Obama 
administration, now to here, when it is easing off of 
sanctions, even offering to enter back in into talks about the 
JCPOA (Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action), that that type of 
behavior also contributed to where we are today?
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you, Senator. It will not surprise 
you that I would not agree with that statement, even though I 
agree with pretty much everything you said right up to that 
statement. And again, I just point out that when it comes to 
Iran, two things very quickly, one----
    Senator Britt. Go ahead. And I know I have a limited time.
    Secretary Blinken. Very quickly, we have been engaged in 
going at Iran for its support in a whole variety of ways for 
malicious activities throughout the region, including support 
for terrorism, including destabilization, that has involved, as 
I said, sanctioning more than 400 Iranian entities and 
individuals, over the last two-and-a-half years.
    Senator Britt. And not to cut you off, but I know that she 
is going to cut me off.
    Secretary Blinken. Go ahead, please.
    Senator Britt. So you know, in order to actually do this, 
we have to go back to a strategy of maximum pressure, I hope 
you will work with your other countries here in G7 to actually 
do that. Can you commit today that this administration will not 
resume talks to enter in with Iran to enter the JCPOA?
    Secretary Blinken. Well, I am not going to get into 
hypotheticals about our diplomacy. I can simply say that it was 
a big mistake to walk away from the JCPOA, because at least it 
took one problem off the table, which was Iran's nuclear 
program. Unfortunately, since we have moved out, Iran has 
turned that back on. And so that just adds to the threat that 
Iran poses.
    Senator Britt. Obviously, we are going to disagree--we are 
going to disagree on that----
    Secretary Blinken. Being able to deal with one--with at 
least one problem was a positive.
    Senator Britt. So we have one more minute. Secretary 
Austin, when we are looking at what is happening across the 
Middle East there, particularly with attacks on our troops, do 
you believe that Iran understands--we more recently heard this 
administration say that there is a red line. Do you believe 
that Iran understands what that red line is?
    Secretary Austin. Senator Britt, we have been clear that 
the protection of our troops is important, and we will do what 
is necessary to protect them. And this activity has to change. 
If it does not change, we will respond. And again, we will 
respond at a time and place of our choosing.
    Senator Britt. At a time of our choosing. Yes, and I just 
want to make sure that we have--have we been clear with Iran 
what that red line is? Do they understand that?
    Secretary Austin. We have been clear about what I just 
said, Senator Britt.
    Senator Britt. Okay. Thank you.
    Chair Murray. Thank you.
    Senator Manchin.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you very much, Madam Chairman. And 
thanks both of you all. It has been very enlightening, and it 
has been very interesting hearing you all's approach on this. 
First of all, we know that Ukraine cannot succeed without U.S. 
support. Can Israel succeed without U.S. support? Yes or no, 
very quickly on that, either one.
    Secretary Austin. That is correct. My assessment is that if 
the United States does not continue to support Ukraine that 
they will not succeed.
    Senator Manchin. Right, but can Israel without our support?
    Secretary Austin. That is right.
    Senator Manchin. Can Israel make it without our support?
    Secretary Austin. I think--no, I think we have to continue 
to support them, as they try to----
    Senator Manchin. I am just asking you questions that people 
are asking me. So they are saying we have been giving $3 
billion and Israel is very advanced. Ukraine was not, we had to 
bring them up to speed, to be able to fight the fight, and we 
are committed there.
    And Secretary Blinken?
    Secretary Blinken. I would simply say that on the one hand, 
Israel prides itself in being able to defend itself by itself. 
But a critical function of its ability to do that is the 
support that we provide, including through the Memorandum of 
Understanding that was negotiated by the Obama administration 
to give Israel a level of----
    Senator Manchin. So it is just as far as support, the 
support is not only justified but needed. You are saying it 
would be hard to take on all the fronts, or taking on without 
our support. Next of all, it brings me to the munitions, I know 
has been asked about what we can produce; is the United States 
running a risk, maybe, not having enough to defend our self if 
we are pulled into any of these battles because of what we are 
basically producing?
    Are we producing enough here, with the trusted allies in 
our self, producing enough ammunition to defend our own 
homeland and help our allies too?
    Secretary Austin. Thanks, Senator. The first order of 
business for us is to make sure that we have the capability 
required to defend our Nation, and protect our interests.
    Senator Manchin. Thank you.
    Secretary Austin. And then above and beyond that we can----
    Senator Manchin. Do you think we are producing enough? We 
are ramping up. I know we are trying to.
    Secretary Austin. Yes. We are ramping up, but it was--if we 
had if we had to only resource ourselves, yes, but we are at a 
point in time where we are resourcing allies and partners like 
Ukraine and Israel, and it is going to require more----
    Senator Manchin. I am just asking the question because 
people are asking me. Are we running our self critically low on 
our own volume of what we need in our own, basically inventory? 
Or are we basically overproducing, or can we produce enough, or 
are we supplying more than what we can produce to backfill? 
That was a question.
    The other thing that has been asked of me, first of all, 
our commitment to win, our track record has not been too good 
with Vietnam, and basically Afghanistan, Ukraine, getting out--
the end result. Are we committed to staying with this to win? 
Because I believe Ukraine is the most--I just think it is the 
purpose and the most honorable position we have ever taken in 
my lifetime of seeing that we were committed to playing the 
role the United States plays as defender of freedom and 
liberties. And when you have a country willing to risk their 
own life and put their own people on the line; that is the 
least we can do to support them. So I am all in on that. But 
are we committed to staying the stay all the way through?
    And next of all, on our support to Israel; Israel has got 
to take out Hamas. Israel has to be supported to do that. And 
with that, are we committed to make sure that happens? So I 
think at least, and in this final question, people have asked 
me saying why can't--are the people in--the Palestinian people 
in Gaza, are they committed to the cause, to Hamas' cause, 
basically? And that is why they are not leaving when we have--
basically been warned that you should leave? That they are 
being held hostage by Hamas? Can we not get aid to them making 
sure it is being used for the purpose of their survivability? 
And can we not get them out of there? What is holding that 
back? Secretary Blinken.
    Secretary Austin. We are committed to making sure that 
Ukraine has what it needs to be--to defend its sovereign 
territory. That is why we are here asking you for support.
    Senator Manchin. No problem. But I am just saying, is there 
a way to do that? Secretary Blinken, I know you have been over 
there quite a bit. Both of you all have been, and appreciate 
it.
    Secretary Blinken. Senator, very quickly the overwhelming 
majority of Palestinians living in Gaza are not part of Hamas, 
do not support Hamas. In fact, are subjected to its repressive 
rule. But these are impoverished people who have virtually no 
opportunity, and so no ability----
    Senator Manchin. You are saying nowhere to go?
    Secretary Blinken [continuing]. So very hard for them to 
move out of the way, although obviously we are working on that 
to try to get them out of harm's way, very little ability to 
provide for themselves, which is why we are trying to get 
assistance in. But ultimately, this is their land, we do not 
want to see them displaced----
    Senator Manchin. Very quickly----
    Secretary Blinken [continuing]. And we do want to see 
different governance in Gaza.
    Senator Manchin. The problem that we have, basically we are 
saying that $10 billion for humanitarian aid, when we know we 
cannot even get the aid that we are putting in there now, going 
into the hands----
    Secretary Blinken. No. No. We can--no, we can, and we are. 
We are making sure that the assistance going in is going to the 
people who need it and deserve it, not the people who do not.
    Chair Murray. Mr. Secretary, I am going to----
    Senator Manchin. My final----
    Chair Murray. I am going to interrupt you. I apologize to 
everyone.
    Senator Manchin. I know.
    Chair Murray. Secretary Blinken has said he has to leave. I 
respect that. And Senator Austin--or Secretary Austin said he 
would stay. We have four Senators who have not----
    Senator Manchin. Let me just--I just had----
    Chair Murray [continuing]. Who have not had a chance to ask 
anything: Senators Rubio, Van Hollen, Fischer, and Murkowski. 
If you will indulge me, I would like to ask each of those to 
ask, quickly, their question for Secretary Blinken to respond 
to those.
    Senator Manchin. Can I just have a final----
    Chair Murray. And Secretary Austin will be here and stay 
here to answer, and those four, we will call back on you in----
    Senator Manchin. I have one final comment I want to make to 
both of you all. This is a bipartisan, so when you hear all of 
the--my Republican colleagues saying about how important it is 
to secure our own borders, I want you to know it is bipartisan. 
I have got more concern about our own borders from my own 
people in West Virginia, and I want to make sure that you 
understand that we will do anything and everything humanly 
possible to support securing the borders of the United States 
of America. Thank you.
    Chair Murray. Thank you. I am going to call on Senator 
Rubio, Van Hollen, Fischer, and Murkowski to simply ask a 
question. Mr. Secretary, if you can respond to those together? 
And then I will call on all of you to ask Secretary Austin a 
question.
    Senator Rubio.
    Senator Rubio. Well, since I only have one question, no one 
else is going to ask you about this, and it is unrelated to 
this matter, tangentially anyway. We recently did a deal with 
the Maduro Regime in Venezuela, in which we lifted sanctions in 
exchange for free and fair elections that they were supposed to 
comply with. It has taken them 2 weeks now. They have violated 
that. They canceled the opposition's primary election; continue 
to ban their--the winner of that primary. They basically wiped 
out the election. They have broken the deal. Are we going to 
reimpose sanctions?
    Chair Murray. Senator Van Hollen, your question please.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary, 
in the aftermath of the horror visited upon Israel by Hamas and 
the ongoing war in Gaza, much of the world has turned its eye 
away from what is happening on the West Bank. And what we are 
seeing, and our own folks on the ground have been reporting 
this on a daily basis, is that with support of extremists in 
the Netanyahu government, people like Smotrich and Ben-Gvir, 
extremist settler violence against Palestinians has 
skyrocketed, as more Palestinians are pushed off their land in 
Area C.
    As you know, all this does is strengthen Hamas, undermine 
the already weak PA, and open another front in this war. I know 
the President has raised this issue with Prime Minister 
Netanyahu, but according to every report I get, and I know both 
of you, Secretaries, get these. We have seen no improvement. So 
my question is pretty simple: What is your plan beyond urging 
that something be done when--or pleas continue to be ignored?
    Chair Murray. Senator Fischer, your question, please?
    Senator Fischer. No question.
    Chair Murray. No question.
    Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Given the overlay that we have heard, 
the interconnectedness between what is happening in Ukraine 
with Putin's war, what we are seeing truly explode now in 
Israel by Hamas with the support of Iran, given what we have 
all been discussing here, with regards to the tension in China 
and Taiwan. We are not talking about North Korea today, but we 
should always be thinking about North Korea's intentions.
    This is a simple question that I was going to ask both of 
you. Given the situation, globally, and what is at play and how 
it all intersects. Are we at a time and a place where, from a 
national security perspective, we are as vulnerable as we have 
been as a nation, in your professional estimation?
    Chair Murray. Mr. Secretary, your responses, please?
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you. And I very much appreciate 
the accommodation. I want to try to quickly answer, at least 
address initially the questions that are raised before I leave.
    Senator Rubio, I thank you very much for the question about 
Venezuela. As you know, following the agreement that the 
Unitary Platform, the Opposition, reached with the Regime on a 
way forward toward elections, we wanted to support that and 
part of supporting that was to encourage that to move forward, 
including by lifting some sanctions with the ability, of 
course, to snap them back, or to put some licenses in place 
that can be revoked very quickly.
    If the regime has, in fact, violated the agreement that it 
reached, then of course we will take the necessary action. We 
have been very clear about that, they are not getting a free 
pass for actions that they take that are in contradiction to 
the commitments that they have made to move towards free and 
fair elections, which is a shared objective that we have with 
the Opposition, with the Unitary Platform. So we are tracking 
that very carefully and happy to come back to you further as 
this moves along.
    Senator Van Hollen, with regard to the West Bank, we very 
much share the concern that you have expressed. Palestinian 
authority is doing everything that it can to keep security, to 
keep stability in the West Bank. It is vastly under-resourced. 
This is another aspect of the problem and we have urge the 
Israelis, for example, to provide the authority with the 
resources that it needs that are being held back, tax revenues 
and other fees that it collects and then normally gives to the 
authority so that it can do its business, to release those.
    And at the same time, the President himself has been very 
clear, very direct, and very explicit about our concerns about 
extreme settler violence and the impact that that is having on 
the West Bank, including adding fuel to the fire. We have seen 
that people have been, in effect, forcibly displaced from their 
communities as well as killed, so this is something that we are 
in direct communication and conversation with the Israeli 
government at the very highest levels, and something we are 
tracking very carefully.
    Secretary Austin. Tony, if I could add.
    Secretary Blinken. Please.
    Secretary Austin. You know, I mentioned earlier, I talk to 
my counterpart nearly every day, and this is something that I 
bring up every time I talk to him. As you mentioned, Senator, I 
am watching these reports and some of the things that we are 
seeing are fairly disturbing, and it will work against them 
going forward if they do not make a decision to control this 
better.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank. It really needs to stop.
    Secretary Blinken. And then, Senator Murkowski, I think I 
would say this, we see the challenges that we have been 
discussing today. You also mentioned North Korea. Another 
challenge that we take with dead seriousness, that is on one 
side of the equation. The other side of the equation is this, 
there has never been a time in my own experience where we have 
had greater unity of purpose, greater unity of action, greater 
convergence with our partners in Europe, our partners in Asia, 
and indeed in other parts of the world than we have now in 
facing exactly those problems.
    We built a coalition of more than 50 countries to help deal 
with the aggression that Putin is committing in Ukraine, an 
extraordinary coalition that is supporting Ukraine in so many 
different ways, as well as dealing with broader problems that 
Russia poses. At the same time, we built much greater 
convergence than I have ever seen on how to deal with and 
approach to the challenges posed by China. And we see that in 
Asia itself. We see that in our relationships with everyone 
from Korea to Japan, to the Philippines, to Vietnam, to India, 
countries wide and far, as well as in Europe.
    So I am very comforted by the fact that because we have 
revitalized, reenergized, reengaged our core alliances and 
partnerships, our greatest strength, and built new ones, and 
brought them together in new ways, we have tremendously 
effective groupings of countries that are prepared to deal with 
these challenges.
    Chair Murray. Thank you. And thank you. I understand you 
have a meeting with the Speaker. And appreciate your answering 
those questions.
    Secretary Blinken. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chair Murray. I will go back to the Senators who have not 
had a chance now.
    Secretary Austin, thank you for your willingness to stay 
and answer the final questions.
    Senator Rubio.
    Senator Rubio. Thank you. Secretary Austin, I wanted to ask 
you, and really I will just be I guess very quick, in respect 
for all the people's time here. These attacks from these, we 
continue to call them proxies, they are basically agents of the 
IRGC and the Iranians, they would not be occurring without the 
Iranians, not just permitting them, but frankly facilitating 
them. And the Iranians would not facilitate or permit them 
because in fact there was a pause in those attacks for some 
period of time.
    They would not facilitate or permit them unless they 
calculated that these attacks do not cross some threshold, in 
their mind that if they cross that threshold that would trigger 
a price, a response--a price they do not want to pay, a 
response they do not want to see. At this moment, I do not 
believe that we can argue that we have deterrence in place for 
these attacks.
    And this is more of a comment than it is a question, 
although you are obviously free to comment, and I think we are 
very interested to hear what your response will be, but it is 
my deep belief that I hope is shared by the Department, that if 
we do not--I do not want a broader war with Iran, none of us 
have talked about, and I am not one of those people who have 
out there been talking about airstrikes and starting a war with 
Iran is a tinderbox to begin with.
    But if we do not have a credible, not just the deterrence, 
a credible deterrence with the Iranians, these attacks are 
going to escalate. They are going to come faster, they are 
going to spread beyond Syria and Iraq, and they will involve 
weaponry of increasing sophistication and lethality. And that 
is my biggest fear, is that we will find ourselves if we do not 
soon establish a credible deterrent, they will begin to cross 
lines that will require, not just a defensive posture on our 
front, but imposing a cost on them.
    One of the biggest, obviously I share all the comments that 
have been made here about the horrifying incident involving 
Hamas, and everything they have done in the past and moving 
forward, the need to stand with our allies, but I think this is 
the one that really, really--this is the one that has the 
threat to quickly spiral out of control, is that these groups 
escalating these attacks to include more places, at a faster 
clip, with more lethality and sophistication if we do not 
establish a credible deterrent quickly.
    Secretary Austin. Senator, I agree with that if they are 
not convinced that we will do what is necessary to protect our 
troops, then they will continue on as they are. But I have been 
clear, the President has been clear that that is something that 
we will not tolerate. And we will do what is necessary to 
protect our troops. You saw me move another carrier battle 
group, actually it is in the Med now, it is headed to the Gulf 
region. That gives us more capability, more strike capability. 
We have additional aircraft in the region now, we have the 
punch that is necessary to protect our interest, and we are 
going to do what is necessary to do that.
    Senator Rubio. Well, I have no question that we have the 
assets positioned in the region to impose a cost on Iran that 
they do not want to pay. I hope we never have to do it. I guess 
the fundamental question really becomes, do they believe we 
will actually do it.
    Again, I understand the complexity of the situation where 
something could trigger, and suddenly this thing begins to move 
in a direction that spirals out of control. What I have real 
concerns about is their perception of what we are willing to 
do, that may not match up with what we are actually willing to 
do. Hence, at this moment we do not have a credible deterrent. 
And I sense from your answer that you share that concern, 
sometimes even when we say things they may not believe us, even 
if we have the capability to do it.
    So it is one of those situations where we do not want there 
to be a shooting war, certainly, and seeing this thing 
escalate, but I think one of the things that guarantees 
escalation is the lack of a credible deterrent. It is a complex 
and serious matter, and one that I hope you--it sounds like you 
share my concern about it quickly spiraling here, primarily 
because of Iranian perceptions of our willingness, not our 
capability, but our willingness to take deterrent action.
    Chair Murray. Senator Van Hollen.
    Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Madam Chair. Secretary 
Austin, thank you for your service. And I agree that we have to 
provide the people of Ukraine with military assistance that 
they need to defend themselves against Putin's aggression. And 
President Biden is right to stand with Israel in its hour of 
need. All of us have been repulsed by the horror and brutality 
of the Hamas terror attacks that left over 1,400 innocent 
Israelis murdered, including women and children, including 
those massacred at Kibbutz Kfar Aza, which I visited in June.
    When scaled to the size of the U.S. population that is 
comparable to over 40,000 Americans killed; a horror that will 
never be erased. All of us agree that Israel not only has the 
right but the duty to defend itself and eliminate the threat 
from Hamas. Hamas must immediately release all the hostages, 
and as Israel conducts its operations, many of us believe it 
should prioritize returning the hostages safely home.
    Also, as President Biden has said, it must conduct its 
operations in accordance with the laws of war. Not only because 
taking all possible measures to avoid civilian casualties and 
human suffering is morally and legally required, but that it is 
also in the best strategic interests of the United States and 
Israel to do so. Something both you and Secretary Blinken have 
affirmed today.
    The President has been very clear about the need to 
distinguish between Hamas and the overwhelming number of Gaza's 
over 2,000,000 Palestinian civilians who have nothing to do 
with Hamas. But some members of Prime Minister Netanyahu's 
coalition have indicated that all Palestinians in Gaza are 
responsible for the horror visited upon Israel. And Israel has 
imposed, as you know, a full siege on the people of Gaza, 
cutting off most water, food, medicine, electricity, and fuel 
shipments.
    Secretary Blinken described the desperate humanitarian 
situation in his testimony today, but to date, we have only 
seen a trickle, a trickle of the needed humanitarian aid 
crossing the Rafah border. I saw the readout from your 
conversation today with Minister Gallant where you indicated, 
and I quote, ``That humanitarian law requires that there be 
unfettered humanitarian assistance.''
    So Mr. Secretary, simple question. We have got a trickle 
going. You would agree that in the interests of humanitarian 
law and helping innocent people in Gaza, we have to do a lot 
better? A simple question.
    Secretary Austin. I agree, Senator, and as I said earlier, 
it is a moral, and operational, and strategic imperative. If 
you fail to do that, then I think we are going to create a 
problem that--they will create a problem, a bigger problem for 
themselves.
    Senator Van Hollen. Now, the siege is being accompanied by 
a ferocious bombing campaign. In just the first six days of the 
war, Israel dropped 6,000 bombs in the densely populated the 
Gaza Strip. Israel has stopped reporting the number of bombs 
being dropped, but the intense pace has continued. Last night, 
my wife and I learned that someone we know well lost two family 
members, and four of their children killed in bombing in Gaza.
    So they are not yet included in the most recent death toll 
reported by the United Nations yesterday, which says the number 
of dead has risen to over 8,300 people, 70 percent of them 
women and children including 3,457 children, these are UN 
figures. According to UN figures, that is about six times more 
children killed in 3 weeks in Gaza than the number of children 
killed in Ukraine during the entire war there.
    And if you sail the death of those Palestinian children to 
the United States population it is comparable to over 230,000 
American children killed. The executive director of UNICEF, 
Catherine Russell, said at the current rate, more than 420 
children are being killed or injured in the Gaza each day. A 
number, she said, which should shake us to our core. I agree.
    Now, Mr. Secretary, I know that people are on opposing 
sides of this conflict provide different reasons for why the 
death toll is so high, and you are right about Hamas' 
despicable practices of operating among civilians, but 
regardless of the explanation, we must not look away from these 
terrible facts. You and the President have repeatedly said that 
Israel must comply with the rules of war, but as we consider 
additional American military assistance to Israel's fight in 
Gaza, don't we have an obligation not only to state that 
expectation, but to ensure that our support is used in a manner 
that complies with the laws of war and U.S. law? That is my 
question, Mr. Secretary.
    Secretary Austin. We will continue to emphasize to our 
allies here the necessity to account for the civilians that are 
in the battle space. They are a part of the battle space. They 
must account for them. They must do the right thing in terms of 
taking that into consideration as they do their targeting, they 
must create such----
    Senator Van Hollen. Mr. Secretary, with respect, my 
question is a little different. My question is now that we are 
talking about----
    Chair Murray. Senator Van Hollen, I apologize. Secretary 
Austin has just a few minutes left.
    Senator Van Hollen. All right.
    Chair Murray. We still have four Senators here.
    Senator Van Hollen. All right. Just, additional assistance, 
don't we now have an obligation, not just a stated expectation, 
for that to be the case?
    Chair Murray. Thank you.
    Senator Fischer.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you, Madam Chairman. While I 
appreciate Secretary Austin and Secretary Blinken testifying 
today, I will echo my colleagues' sentiment and say that I am 
disappointed Secretary Mayorkas is not here. However, I am 
very, very pleased to hear that he will be before this 
committee next week. Because there is a national security 
crisis at our southern border, and this administration must 
make serious policy changes to address the crisis. I look 
forward to hearing from Secretary Mayorkas on how the 
administration intends to address that crisis.
    Twenty-four days ago, Israel suffered the worst terrorist 
attack in its history. Israel has the right and the 
responsibility to respond to these barbaric attacks. We can 
best help them by giving them the time and resources they need 
to eliminate Hamas. The atrocities committed by Hamas demand 
nothing less. The administration's request included over $14 
billion for Israel, including $5.2 billion to replenish their 
Iron Dome and David's Sling systems and accelerate development 
of their Iron Beam system, and $3.5 billion in foreign military 
financing. I strongly support the full inclusion of this 
request in the supplemental funding bill that this committee 
will draft.
    The administration has also requested significant funding 
for Ukraine. I would note that while many of our allies and 
partners are capable of providing generous humanitarian and 
economic assistance packages, only the United States can 
provide Ukraine with lethal aid at the scale that it needs. 
That is where we should focus our efforts as a country, but we 
can only continue to provide lethal aid if we aggressively 
expand our munitions production capacity. And we do that here 
at home. And that is a point that is being lost by many.
    A significant portion of the funding request is to 
replenish and build out U.S. capacity. The United States faces 
threats from around the world, from Russia, China, Iran. 
Earlier this month, the bipartisan bicameral Congressional 
Commission on the Strategic Posture of the United States 
released its final report on America's Strategic Posture.
    The report unanimously endorsed by the Commissioners found 
that we will soon face a security situation that quote, ``The 
United States did not anticipate, and for which it is not 
prepared.'' I am working with my colleagues to turn many of the 
Commission's recommendations into law, but fundamentally, we 
simply do not have the workforce, supply chain, or 
infrastructure necessary to meet the coming threats. Building 
out this capacity, it is going to take time and resources, but 
we can start now by making targeted investments in our 
munitions production base.
    The administration's supplemental request includes over $18 
billion to replenish our own weapons stockpiles, and over $4.6 
billion to expand production capacity for those critical 
munitions. This is a step in the right direction, and I will 
support its inclusion in the supplemental funding bill.
    Secretary Austin, what would be the impact of not including 
replenishment funding in the Appropriations package for this 
supplemental?
    Secretary Austin. Thanks, Senator. We would lose the 
ability to do the kinds of things that we have done with 
Ukraine and Israel in support of our allies, you know, in a 
time of need.
    Senator Fischer. And what does it do to our own national 
security?
    Secretary Austin. Well, it certainly--as I said earlier, we 
will maintain the ability to defend this country and protect 
our interests, but this additional capability gives us the 
ability to address emerging crises. And so I think without 
that, we would be challenged to do the kinds of things that we 
have done here in the past.
    Senator Fischer. You know, I know it is important that we 
continue to do that for our allies and partners, but it helps 
our own stockpile requirements, and that includes expanding the 
production lines for long-range precision-guided munitions as 
well; is that correct?
    Secretary Austin. That is absolutely correct, Senator, and 
you know that----
    Senator Fischer. Which we need for the Pacific, right?
    Secretary Austin. That is right. And you know that some of 
these munitions are long-lead time in terms of what it takes to 
produce them. And so we are looking at ways to shorten some of 
those time lines, to increase capacity, to automate the 
production lines to address some of the issues that you raised 
earlier.
    Senator Fischer. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chair Murray. Senator Peters.
    Senator Peters. Thank you, Madam Chair. And as Chairman of 
the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee, I know 
how important it is for us to secure our northern and southern 
border and provide law enforcement with the resources that they 
are going to need to complete that mission. And that is why I 
am very pleased to see substantial funding in the supplemental 
to support border operations as well as security for our 
country.
    But I also believe we cannot stop there. We also must work 
with international partners to understand some of the root 
causes of the increased migration that we are seeing show up at 
our border, and commit adequate resources to addressing those 
challenges.
    I know Secretary Blinken had another engagement that he had 
to leave, but I have a number of questions for him that I will 
be submitting to the record as to how that we work 
internationally to deal with border security here in our 
country.
    Secretary Austin, thank you for staying for additional 
time. You have been very generous with your time. The question 
is, with the recent escalation of violence and attacks that are 
aimed at U.S. personnel in the Middle East now, I remain 
concerned about the Air Force's decision to divest the A-10 
aircraft. Notably the DOD recently deployed A-10s to further 
deter Iran and their proxies that may seek to attack U.S. 
Forces, and in the process destabilize the region even more 
than it already is.
    As you know, my home State of Michigan is the home of 107th 
Fighter Squadron, a unit certainly capable of providing air 
support to our troops and allies should they be called upon. 
And my question for you, Secretary, is that clearly the 
Department of Defense has recognized the need for this 
aircraft's very unique capabilities, and are deploying those 
fighters right now in support of operations related to this 
contingency.
    So my question for you is: Is this current conflict causing 
the Department to reconsider A-10 divestment? Or at a minimum 
perhaps delaying some of those divestitures given the fact that 
there is a mission today, and will very likely continue at 
least in the foreseeable future?
    Secretary Austin. Well, thanks, Senator. I have personally 
benefited from the capability of the A-10s, so I have great 
respect for the platform. And the A-10 will be with us for the 
near term. But I have asked you for $61.1 billion in my fiscal 
year '24 budget to invest in air power so that we can remain 
the dominant force.
    And so we are going to have to transition over time to 
address the new challenges that we will face with peer 
competition. And we are making an effort to do that. And we 
will have to make some choices down the road, but we are going 
to have to continue to make that transition, but they will be 
with us for the near term.
    Senator Peters. Good. Well, as you talk about the future, 
certainly we have to be focused, and warfare is changing 
dramatically, but I believe that the very close working 
relationship and security cooperation that we have with Israel 
is incredibly important to that task. The U.S. and Israel have 
some of the world's most innovative technologies as you are 
well aware of. And now more than ever we need to continue to 
develop those.
    This Congress, I introduced along with bipartisan support 
from Senator Fischer, the U.S.-Israel Future of Warfare Act, 
which authorized $50 million to create the U.S.-Israel Future 
Warfare Research and Development Fund to increase collaboration 
in areas of artificial intelligence, drone, and cybersecurity, 
directed to energy and automation; that is a $50 million 
authorization. Given the current conflict, given the rapidly 
changing nature of warfare, how important is it that we make 
those investments, and should we be prepared to make even more 
investments, and may have an even closer cooperative agreement 
with Israel and the IDF?
    Secretary Austin. Well, thanks, Senator. Thanks for your 
work. I certainly will not comment on pending legislation. What 
I will say though is that we are great partners. We have done a 
number of things together, and Israel, as you pointed out, is a 
source of innovation--excuse me. And our work together I think 
will continue to create advantages for us in the future battle 
space. So we look forward to that.
    Senator Peters. Great. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Thank you, 
Madam Chair.
    Chair Murray. Thank you.
    Senator Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I think this 
is probably the most important and most significant hearing 
that we have had here in the Congress this year. This is not 
only about the United States and our national security, it is 
about food security. As we heard earlier, we have not really 
talked about energy security, but there is a dynamic there as 
well. This is significant that this committee is weighing in to 
evaluate the supplemental request.
    My hope is that we are able to take the contours of this, 
which is absolutely the imperative in the support for Ukraine. 
Absolutely the imperative in the support for Israel. Also 
recognizing that we need--we must do more when it comes to our 
own border here in this country. But also a piece that we have 
not really talked much about here today, and that is the Indo-
Pacific piece. There is a small increment here or a smaller 
insignificant, in relative terms to the other areas, but 
recognizing that we will be doing some adjustment within those 
contours, those four pillars and how they intersect, and how 
they allow this proposal to move forward I think is so very, 
very important.
    I was reading something this morning, Madam Chairman, as I 
was coming in. It was a statement that said something to the 
effect that: In the United States we lead through the power of 
our example, but we also need the example of our power. And 
that example of our power is manifested through our defense 
appropriations. And so as we are talking about the need for 
replenishment of our own stocks, and then what that can do to 
help Ukraine, what we must do then to help Israel.
    Mr. Secretary, can you speak to the Indo-Pacific piece? 
There is $2 billion included for state--for foreign military 
financing. In your view, why is it imperative that we also 
include in this package an increment for the Indo-Pacific?
    Secretary Austin. Well, thanks, Senator. As you know from 
our strategy, our National Defense Strategy, China is our 
pacing challenge. And as we look at China's behavior in the 
Indo-Pacific, we are increasingly concerned. So we must have 
the ability to continue to be able to deter China and to 
promote a free and open Indo-Pacific. And so we are going to 
continue that work.
    In this request we have asked you for $3.3 billion to 
invest in our submarine industrial base, and that will help us 
with our efforts with AUKUS. And as you know, AUKUS is a 
generational capability that I think will do great things in 
enabling us to promote security and stability in the Indo-
Pacific. We have also asked for $3 billion or so----
    Senator Murkowski. Mr. Secretary?
    Secretary Austin [continuing]. To build more capacity in 
our industrial base so we can produce greater quantities of 
munitions and weapons. And so I think that investment is going 
to apply to the Indo-Pacific as well.
    Senator Murkowski. I appreciate that. Madam Chairman, a 
question has not yet been asked in this hearing about the 
impact, the implication of a long-term CR. I know we are 
talking about an emergency supplemental now, but our reality is 
in 18 short days. We will once again be beyond where our budget 
is.
    Mr. Secretary, if we were to go to a long-term CR, given 
the state of the world right now and the role that we play in 
it, what would that mean?
    Secretary Austin. It would be--it would make things much 
more difficult for us, Senator. You know, you cannot buy back 
time. And this takes away the time we have to conduct--to 
effect new starts. The time that we have to go after specific 
projects, to invest in capabilities, and you just cannot buy 
that back. Our budget is directly linked to our strategy. And 
so if we do not have the full budget it is not--we are not able 
to execute the strategy to the degree that we planned it. And 
so I think this is critical and I think it is really, really 
important that we get an on-time appropriation if possible.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chair Murray. Thank you very much.
    Senator Sinema.
    Senator Sinema. Thank you, Chair Murray and to Vice Chair 
Collins, for holding this hearing today, and for our witnesses 
for joining us. This is my first hearing as a Member of the 
Senate Appropriations Committee, and I am honored to further 
the Committee's bipartisan work.
    The Senate Appropriations Committee serves as an example 
for the U.S. Senate and for the Congress for how lawmakers from 
both sides of the aisle can come together to advance priorities 
and further the values that unite us as Americans. And thanks 
to the leadership of the two Wonder Women who run our 
Committee, Chair Murray and Vice Chair Collins, the Senators 
who have crafted our Nation's spending priorities while 
supporting important priorities for communities in our States.
    I have been proud to work with each of them on a variety of 
bipartisan bills to help our country thrive, from our 
Infrastructure Law, to CHIPS (Creating Helpful Incentives to 
Produce Semiconductors) and Science, Bipartisan Safer 
Communities Law, and many more, what we have shown is that how 
possible it is when folks come together to solve challenges and 
create opportunities. And I could not be more excited and proud 
to continue that work as a Member of the Appropriations 
Committee, while addressing Arizona's unique needs for our 
water future, our border security, defense, and housing 
affordability.
    And there could be no better time than now to show our 
Committee's unity and Congress' commitment to advancing our 
shared values. America's adversaries are watching how we act 
and how we react, while actors across the globe that stand 
against everything we as Americans believe in actively trying 
to destabilize and destroy democracies. We must pass 
legislation to support Israel, Ukraine against Putin, and 
Arizona's border. Each of these three are urgent concerns and 
should advance together as they are all critical for both my 
State and for our country's national security.
    China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea are strengthening 
partnerships to undermine America's interests and create chaos, 
while Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East, and 
Ukraine, a critical supporter of American's values, continue to 
be attacked.
    At the same time, at home in Arizona, we know there is a 
clear crisis in our border, and cartels are using the porous 
border to smuggle migrants and dangerous drugs into our State, 
weakening our national security. So the supplemental request 
includes resources for Ukraine to fight against Putin, to 
support Israel in her time of need and border security all in 
one package. And I encourage my colleagues to join me in doing 
the bipartisan work that is necessary to address all of these 
priorities.
    Secretary Austin, the request includes additional 
appropriations for Iron Dome and David's Sling replenishment. I 
agree we need to quickly surge production to support 
significant replenishment in Israel as soon as possible. Now, 
we have been talking about capacity shortfalls and revitalizing 
the defense industrial base for years. This request, however, 
only includes $200 million to mitigate industrial base 
constraints to allow for faster production of weapons and 
equipment. Can you speak to the impact of this funding in the 
context of supporting multiple conflicts?
    Secretary Austin. Thanks, Senator. That $200 million that 
you are speaking of is focused on our DPA efforts. And the 
larger amount that we are asking for to invest in the 
industrial base is $3 billion. And so that is a component of 
the bigger number. And again, I think all the things that we 
are doing to replenish our stocks, to enable Ukraine to 
purchase new equipment from the United States, all those things 
also contribute. But we specifically asked for $3 billion in 
this request to focus on the industrial base. And again, that 
$200 million is a component of that, not the total amount.
    Senator Sinema. So the request includes provisions for the 
``expansion'' of facilities for the purpose of increasing 
production of critical munitions. How quickly will these 
investments lead to increased capacity?
    Secretary Austin. It will vary. In some cases, you know, 
industry can move fairly quickly. In other cases for more 
sophisticated items like Javelins and Stingers and those kinds 
of things, it will take a bit longer. But we are working with 
industry each and every day to do everything we can to send the 
right signals so that they can invest in the right things and 
be able to expand where required.
    So we have been supplying our Ukrainian allies with 
munitions to push back on Russian aggression for almost 2 years 
now. There are numerous reports that suggest that the 
manufacturing of those munitions and supplies is not yet 
keeping pace with demand, and that we are depleting our own 
stockpiles at a fairly significant rate. Of course, now we are 
going to send some of that inventory to Israel as well, which I 
am supportive of.
    But as we look to support Israel and Taiwan, in addition to 
Ukraine, against the aggression that all three of them face, 
are you worried that this could put too much trust on our 
inventory? And if so, can targeting software that improves the 
accuracy of our munitions help? And is that software investment 
reflected in the supplemental package?
    Secretary Austin. Well, we have the most accurate and 
lethal weapons in the world, and in terms of our targeting, we 
are always looking for ways to do things better and more 
efficiently. But the specifics of those things, I will leave to 
my great airmen who, again, are the best in the world. In terms 
of the depletion of our stocks, again, as I have said a number 
of times here today, we will make sure that we maintain what is 
necessary to defend this country and protect our interests, and 
I will not change that direction of travel.
    Senator Sinema. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Chair Murray. Thank you. I want to thank all of our 
colleagues for a really thoughtful discussion. Secretary 
Austin, thank you for sharing your time and knowledge with us.
    You know, if there is one takeaway from this conversation 
today, it should be that these global challenges that we face, 
the war in Ukraine, terrorism in Israel, humanitarian needs for 
those who are caught in the conflict, and the posturing of the 
Chinese government in the Indo-Pacific region, these challenges 
may be distinct, but they are all connected, and they all are 
urgent.
    We have to respond to all of them in a comprehensive way 
that sends an unmistakable message to the world that American 
leadership is still strong and our resolve has not wavered. So 
I am going to make sure we take what we have learned today into 
account as we continue working together to craft a 
comprehensive security package that meets this pivotal moment, 
and lives up to our promises to stand by our allies, stand for 
democracy, and stand up for civilians.
    I hope all of our colleagues will continue to work with me 
and Vice Chair Collins to make sure we avoid insufficient half 
measures, and get all of our allies the robust support that 
they need. And of course, I do believe we need to continue to 
work to address our domestic priorities like the childcare 
crisis, situation at the border, and more.

                     ADDITIONAL COMMITTEE QUESTIONS

    That will end our hearing today. For any Senators who wish 
to ask additional questions, questions for the record will be 
due in 7 days on Tuesday, November 7th at 5:00 p.m. The hearing 
record will also remain open until then for Members who do wish 
to submit additional materials for the record.
    [The following questions were not asked at the hearing, but 
were submitted to the Departments for response subsequent to 
the hearing:]
             Questions Submitted to Hon. Antony J. Blinken
             Questions Submitted by Senator Jeanne Shaheen
    Question. Secretary Blinken, I appreciate the steps that the 
Department of State has taken to address the passport backlog and 
shorten the wait times for people renewing or applying for passports. 
The supplemental appropriations request that Congress received from the 
Biden-Harris Administration includes transfer authorization to allow 
the State Department to use Consular revenue to address other funding 
needs in the region. How would drawing upon this transfer authority 
affect the State Department's ability to address the passport backlog 
and quickly process new applications?
    Answer. Unforeseen emergencies may compel an urgent State 
Department response to protect life and safety. Congress previously 
authorized transfer of appropriations to the Emergencies in the 
Diplomatic and Consular Service account for such emergencies. The State 
Department is seeking comparable authority from the Consular and Border 
Security Program (CBSP) account.
    The Department has no immediate plans to implement such a transfer, 
but any such transfer would duly consider planned CBSP spending on 
passport and visa services and be subject to any applicable 
consultation and notification requirements.
    Question. If the transfer authority is authorized, how would the 
State Department ensure that Consular Affairs is able to continue to 
address the backlog in passport processing and maintain the resources 
necessary for full staffing at its processing centers?
    Answer. The State Department has no immediate plans to implement 
such a transfer. It is a risk management contingency for future 
emergencies, and any such transfer would duly consider and protect 
planned consular operations and service improvements. There is ample 
funding in FY 2024 to continue the Bureau of Consular Affairs' (CA) 
aggressive hiring campaign.
    CA is also ramping up IT investments, particularly for Online 
Passport Renewal's next phase. If needed, the transfer authority would 
draw from available carryforward and would not impact hiring, 
investments, and other consular operations.
    Question. How would the State Department monitor staffing levels to 
ensure adequate customer service for Americans?
    Answer. Staffing remains a top priority for the Bureau of Consular 
Affairs (CA). CA's Consular and Border Security Program-funded domestic 
Civil Service and Foreign Service employment ceiling is currently set 
at 3,226. Each office and directorate in CA is allocated a set number 
of positions to fill with over a dozen recruitment options to choose 
from depending on position and need.
    Set allocations help us monitor staffing levels to ensure adequate 
customer service for U.S. citizens, and we continue to expand 
recruitment to build a robust and diverse pipeline to meet current and 
future demand.
                                 ______
                                 
              Questions Submitted by Senator Jeff Merkley
    Question. Congressional Notifications: The supplemental includes 
$7.2 billion in Foreign Military Financing (FMF), of which $3.5 billion 
would go to Israel. This portion appears to waive the notification 
requirement for arms sales funded by this supplemental FMF for Israel. 
This would be an unprecedented removal of the requirements under the 
Arms Export Control Act (AECA) of 1976, which itself contains a 
mechanism for emergency cases. Can you explain the efficacy of 
exempting arms sales funded by the FMF portions of the supplemental 
from Congressional notification? Please elaborate on why the provisions 
in the AECA that permit an emergency notification waiving the notify-
and-wait period for Congress are insufficient.
    Answer. The provision does not waive the Congressional notification 
requirement for arms sales. The provision only impacts foreign military 
financing (FMF) and would allow the State Department, under 
extraordinary circumstances, to waive the requirement to notify that we 
are providing supplemental FMF to Israel's account. This would mirror 
how we treat FMF to Israel in the regular base budget. A number of 
countries, including Israel, do not require notification for FMF 
because they receive the exact amount of funding included in the 
Congressional budget justification.
    Question. Israel Foreign Military Financing: The President's 
supplemental request notes that ``up to $3.5 billion may be available 
for the procurement in Israel of defense articles and defense 
services'' for the purposes of Foreign Military Financing (FMF). 
Typically, only a portion--about 20% of FMF--has been allowed to be 
used this way for Israel. In this case, it appears to be the entire 
requested amount. Please confirm whether the entire $3.5 billion in FMF 
requested for Israel can be spent on Israeli defense articles. If so, 
how does that benefit U.S. interests and manufacturers?
    Answer. I anticipate the funding priority for supplemental foreign 
military financing will be replenishing consumables, which are being 
used in real time, to include spares for air-to-ground components and 
ammunition, most of which are produced in the United States. Most of 
Israel's requests continue to be for U.S.-produced defense articles. 
However, the State Department has requested maximum flexibility for 
local procurement to meet emergent requirements and ensure timely 
delivery, especially in light of delayed production and supply chain 
issues with U.S. industry.
    Question. Civilian Harm: In August, the State Department announced 
the new Civilian Harm Incident Response Guidance, under which U.S. 
officials will investigate reports of civilian harm by partner 
governments suspected of misusing U.S. weapons and recommend actions 
that could include suspension of arms sales. Can the Department of 
State provide assurance that if American weapons provided to Israel 
inflict civilian harm and violate human rights, that the agency will 
fully implement the Civilian Harm Incident Response Guidance process?
    Answer. Yes, the State Department is implementing the Civilian Harm 
Incident Response Guidance globally, including with respect to the 
current conflict between Israel and Hamas, to review incidents of 
civilian harm potentially involving U.S.-furnished or authorized end-
items. When credible information is received, the Department 
investigates the report and develops coordinated policy response 
recommendations to mitigate and prevent further civilian harm.
                                 ______
                                 
               Questions Submitted by Senator Joe Manchin
    Question. The national security supplemental funding request we've 
received totals over $105 billion. We've also advanced the 
appropriations bills for both the Department of State (State 
Department) and the Department of Dense (DoD) which, together, total 
nearly $900 billion. How are you ensuring we're not providing 
duplicative funding in either the national security supplemental 
request or the FY24 appropriations bills?
    Answer. The State Department is seeking additional emergency 
supplemental funds to address national security needs that surpass our 
base appropriation. Our request includes assistance to enable Israel 
and Ukraine to defend themselves against horrific attacks, to 
strengthen our partners and bolster security in the Indo-Pacific, and 
to provide life-saving humanitarian assistance to vulnerable people 
around the world. Without supplemental funding, we would have to choose 
between investing in core global programs, such as advancing democracy 
and health security, or addressing emergent crises.
    Question. As you both know since the beginning of Putin's illegal 
war in Ukraine, the United States has provided over $76 billion in 
justified funding to support Ukraine, and we annually provide over $3 
billion to Israel. The issue of accountability is highly important to 
ensure good stewardship of American resources, but also to disprove the 
disinformation campaigns that support the false narratives of Putin, 
Iran, and terrorist organizations such as Hamas. Can you each simply 
explain the Joint Strategic Oversight Plan that was announced this year 
by the Inspectors General for DoD, the State Department, and the United 
States Agency for International Development (USAID)?
    Answer. Due to the statutory independence of the State Department's 
Office of the Inspector General, they will communicate directly with 
your office.
    Question. We simply must do better to get accountability reporting 
out to the public, can each of your Departments put together a fact 
sheet that our office can use when discussing this topic with our 
constituents?
    Answer. Due to the statutory independence of the State Department's 
Office of the Inspector General, they will communicate directly with 
your office.
    Question. Secretary Blinken, this is a question for multiple 
agencies in the Federal Government, but your Department has the lead so 
I'm hoping to get a good answer from you. My position has been 
consistent that we should only put sanctions relief on the table after 
bad actors have demonstrated good behavior, but the Iran Deal went 
counter to this. Additionally, Iran reportedly has a fleet of 16 
``ghost ships'' which transport oil and evade sanctions by turning off 
their transponders to secretly transfer oil, but we have DoD, State, 
and Intelligence Community assets that keep a close eye on these ships. 
Why aren't we immediately seizing every oil tanker leaving Iran and 
selling that oil to finance part of the assistance we're sending to 
Israel?
    Answer. This Administration has not lifted any sanctions on Iran, 
including those on its energy sector, and will continue to enforce U.S. 
sanctions on Iran. I must refer you to the Department of Justice for 
further comment on the seizure actions it has undertaken with respect 
to Iranian-origin oil.
    Question. Do you need any legislative authority to do that?
    Answer. I must refer to the Department of Justice on whether 
additional authorities would better facilitate these law enforcement 
actions to the extent consistent with international law.
    Question. Recent open source reporting also says these ghost ships 
are also transporting Russian oil, why aren't we doing the same thing 
to finance Ukraine's assistance?
    Answer. The Department does not have sanctions against exports of 
Russian oil to third countries; restricting the flow of Russian oil 
ultimately raises global prices and increases revenues back to Putin. 
The oil price cap policy works to constrain Russia's revenues while 
ensuring sufficient supply on global markets. Russia has responded to 
our pressure by turning to some service providers that lack a track 
record of safety and environmental standards. The Department is 
committed to working with allies, partners, and industry to reduce the 
heightened risks Russia is imposing on global maritime oil trade.
                                 ______
                                 
               Questions Submitted by Senator Gary Peters
    Question. Secretary Blinken, what programs does the State 
Department have in place to address the root causes that are driving 
migration?
    Answer. The Administration's FY 2024 budget request includes $978.8 
million in State Department and USAID foreign assistance to continue 
support for the Root Causes Strategy for Central America. These funds 
would sustain and expand programming to support a democratic, 
prosperous, and safe Central America, where people have access to 
economic opportunities; can live, work, and learn in safety and 
dignity; contribute and benefit from democratic processes; have 
confidence in public institutions; and enjoy opportunities to create 
futures for themselves and their families at home.
    Question. How does this supplemental support those programs?
    Answer. Funds in the border supplemental request would complement 
State Department and USAID programs by expanding migration integration 
support to host target communities, increase access to labor pathway 
mechanisms, and promote engagement with the private sector and 
multilateral partners to spur greater investment in integration 
initiatives.
    These funds will address urgent needs to support safe, orderly, and 
humane migration in the hemisphere and bolster efforts to reduce 
irregular encounters at the U.S. southwest border.
    Question. Secretary Blinken, does the Office of the Special Envoy 
to Monitor and Combat Antisemitism have the necessary resources to 
respond to these increased threats?
    Answer. Ambassador Lipstadt and her small team have done amazing 
work to counter global antisemitism with a relatively small budget. The 
State Department made full use of the $1.5 million provided for the 
Office of the Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Antisemitism (J/SEAS) 
in FY 2023 to support the U.S. response to the rapid global rise of 
antisemitism. The FY 2024 request includes an additional position in J/
SEAS to combat rising antisemitism globally. As the process moves 
forward, we greatly appreciate strong Congressional support for the 
Department's efforts to combat hate.
    Question. Additionally, how is the State Department handling the 
responsibility of curbing anti-Muslim hate?
    Answer. The State Department regularly denounces discrimination and 
abuses against Muslim individuals in our diplomacy. The Office of 
International Religious Freedom (IRF) advocates for the rights of 
Muslims as part of its religious freedom mandate under the IRF Act, the 
National Security Strategy, and E.O. 14091. The Department documents 
hatred against all religions in the annual IRF report, and we use the 
office's earmark for foreign assistance programs to support the rights 
of Muslims and other religious communities where they are targets of 
religiously motivated violence, discrimination, and inequality.
    Question. Given that this supplemental package includes over $9 
billion in much needed humanitarian assistance for crises around the 
world, can you share how the State Department plans to continue 
providing lifesaving assistance to the people of Armenia?
    Answer. Since 2020, the United States has provided more than $23 
million to the Nagorno-Karabakh response, including in Armenia. The 
State Department is in touch with the Government of Armenia and 
humanitarian organizations working on the ground, and we will continue 
to assess needs as the situation develops. Additionally, the Department 
will continue to urge Azerbaijan to guarantee ethnic Armenians who fled 
Nagorno-Karabakh a safe, dignified, and sustainable return, should they 
so choose, with protections of their rights and security.
                                 ______
                                 
           Question Submitted by Vice Chair Susan M. Collins
    Question. Secretary Blinken, how would abandoning Ukraine affect 
America's global standing and America's other international interests?
    Answer. A lapse in U.S. support would immediately impact Ukraine's 
battlefield performance, compromise NATO Allies' security, call into 
question U.S. commitments to our core values and to a free and fair 
international system, and affirm for Putin that he can wait out 
Ukraine's supporters. The Department expects other security assistance 
donors would follow our lead, which is why our continued support is 
important to get Ukraine the security assistance it needs. It would 
also risk Allied and partner unity on sanctions and other economic 
measures meant to change Russia's calculus for waging this war.
                                 ______
                                 
             Questions Submitted by Senator Lisa Murkowski
    Question. Earlier this month we saw your Director of Political-
Military Affairs resign stating President Biden was repeating the same 
mistakes Washington has been making for decades, referring to the 
``blind support for one side''. Additionally, the top concern that I've 
heard from my constituents in Alaska that oppose military support for 
Israel is that they don't want to support a conflict that creates so 
many civilian casualties. Obviously, civilian casualties are driving 
the strongest opposition to the United States helping Israel. When U.S. 
provided weapons systems to Ukraine, you all put certain limitations on 
the way they could be used, such as software that disallowed striking 
targets too far inside of Russia, in order to prevent the war from 
going in a direction that we didn't want it to go. Are you considering 
any methods to limit civilian casualties in the conflict between Israel 
and Hamas?
    Answer. The U.S. government is committed to fully providing for 
Israel's self-defense. At the same time, the State Department has made 
clear to Israel that it matters how it conducts this war, that their 
forces must operate in a manner consistent with international 
humanitarian law, and the Department has urged Israel to take all 
possible steps to protect civilians. The Department also continues to 
discuss with Israel our own experience working to minimize civilian 
harm.
    Question. The Israelis have stated their objective is to eliminate 
Hamas. This is a very difficult objective considering most would concur 
that the U.S objective to eliminate ISIS, the Taliban, and al-Quaida 
after 9/11 was unsuccessful because we didn't have a clear objective 
that would trigger the declaration of a successful mission. Have you 
identified meaningful objectives that we can assist Israel in 
completing that will move them closer to the cessation of this 
conflict?
    Answer. Beyond any military operation, defeating Hamas requires 
defeating an idea. The way to do that is by presenting a better idea: a 
better future, with a clear vision and a path to achieve that vision. 
The Administration continues to believe that a negotiated two-state 
solution along the 1967 lines--with mutually agreed-to swaps--is the 
best way to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
                                 ______
                                 
              Questions Submitted by Senator John Boozman
    Question. Secretary Blinken, we have a fentanyl crisis in this 
country. This supplemental includes funding to provide resources to 
stop the flow of fentanyl into the United States. Secretary Blinken, 
the State Department released a statement on 13 October that states, 
``Together, the United States and Mexico will intensify our efforts to 
combat illicit drug trafficking, particularly synthetic drugs such as 
fentanyl and their chemical precursors.'' DHS surge efforts, like 
Operation Blue Lotus and Four Horsemen, resulted in seizures of 12,500 
pounds of fentanyl. Secretary Blinken, do you believe fentanyl 
trafficking into the United States is a national security issue?
    Answer. The State Department consider the manufacturing, 
trafficking, and consumption of synthetic drugs like fentanyl as a top 
national security and public health priority. The Department launched a 
Global Coalition to Address Synthetic Drug Threats to advance 
international action to counter global synthetic drug supply chains and 
demand. The Department use accountability tools to complement 
diplomatic efforts, including designating over 150 fentanyl-related 
targets through E.O. 14059 and announcing over $85 million in fentanyl-
related reward offers for those involved in the synthetic drug supply 
chain since 2021.
    Question. Secretary Blinken, what efforts are being worked to 
enable first responders to detect the presence of fentanyl and emerging 
variants in real time prior to entering the US, at the border, and 
within the US?
    Answer. The State Department learns from and incorporates DHS best 
practices into our foreign assistance programming. The Department work 
closely with DEA to identify the latest patterns and trends related to 
fentanyl trafficking and synthetic drug composition. Both DHS and DEA 
are actively engaged in the Global Coalition to Address Synthetic Drug 
Threats. The Department are also building Mexico's capacity to regulate 
and prevent the diversion of precursor chemicals, seize clandestine 
drug labs, interdict illicit drugs, and investigate and disrupt drug 
manufacturing, trafficking, and related illicit finance.
    Question. Secretary Blinken, the cartels are manufacturing new 
fentanyl variants that make it harder to detect and counter. What 
efforts are being made todevelop and field new technologies for 
fentanyl detection that can't be deceived by evolutions in the drug's 
chemistry, enable forensic determination of the source, and facilitate 
antidote administration in real time?
    Answer. The State Department learns from and incorporates DEA and 
DHS best practices into our foreign assistance programming. The 
Department refer you to DEA's Special Testing Laboratory and DHS's 
science and technology experts for their assessments of new technology.
    Question. Should the US be investing in developing and fielding 
these types of leading edge technologies?
    Answer. The State Department learns from and incorporates DEA and 
DHS best practices into our foreign assistance programming. The 
Department refer you to DEA and DHS's science and technology experts 
for their assessments of new technology.
    Question. As you know the impact from Russia's invasion of Ukraine 
and then Putin pulling out of the Black Sea Grain Initiative has 
drastically worsened the global food crisis at a time when the world is 
experiencing a hunger crisis of unprecedented proportions. Putin also 
continues to attack Ukrainian ports and grain while gaining record 
agricultural exports and profit at the expense of starving families. 
Would you agree that Putin is weaponizing food?
    Answer. The State Department agree Putin is weaponizing food. 
Russia's war in Ukraine has exacerbated global food insecurity, 
disrupted grain and fertilizer markets, and increased the vulnerability 
of people around the world. Russia's unilateral termination of the 
Black Sea Grain Initiative, and its ongoing destruction of Ukrainian 
grain and infrastructure manipulate markets and hurt the Global South. 
To counter Russia's weaponization of food, the Department is working 
with partners and allies to develop alternative routes for Ukraine to 
export its grain, including through EU solidarity lanes and Danube 
ports.
    Question. Even with Ukraine's new humanitarian corridor to 
complement the Danube River ports and other solidarity lanes, are there 
any opportunities for international collaboration or partnerships that 
could provide additional security and protection for Ukraine's grain 
shipments?
    Answer. With the Kremlin disinterested in resuming the Black Sea 
Grain Initiative, the Department continue to engage Turkiye and the UN 
as they look for an alternative that could provide a more predictable 
Black Sea shipping option than the humanitarian corridor alone, which 
more than 150 vessels have traversed. Mines and security remain a 
significant concern and three NATO members--Turkiye, Bulgaria, and 
Romania--have agreed on a joint mine sweeping force to improve the 
corridor's safety. The United States and our partners continue 
contributions to bolster air defense at Ukraine's ports.
    Question. What is the administration's plan for ensuring 
humanitarian aid to Gaza is not diverted to Hamas or other terrorist 
organizations?
    Answer. The Administration provides humanitarian assistance through 
trusted international and local partners in a manner consistent with 
applicable U.S. law. The United States has robust oversight systems in 
place to prevent diversion, and we require our humanitarian partners to 
have the same. Israel also monitors and approves all humanitarian 
assistance going into Gaza and is tracking how it is distributed inside 
Gaza.
                                 ______
                                 
          Questions Submitted by Senator Shelley Moore Capito
    Question. In the supplemental request materials received by 
Congress, there are a few buckets of funding that appear to include 
humanitarian aid for Ukraine, Israel, for Gaza, and for ``countries 
impacted by the situation'' in those places. Which other impacted 
countries would be receiving these humanitarian funds?
    Answer. The majority of the requested humanitarian assistance funds 
will support global humanitarian needs, such as providing access to 
life-saving food assistance, sanitation, health care, safe drinking 
water, and shelter. The U.S. government will be able to continue 
responding to unprecedented levels of need from natural disasters and 
conflicts, from floods in Libya to conflict in Sudan; the flight of 
Armenians from Nagorno-Karabakh to earthquakes in Afghanistan, Turkiye, 
and Syria; and the recent impacts of Hurricane Otis in Mexico and 
Tropical Cyclone Lola in Vanuatu.
    Question. If you were to receive the requested $5.7 billion under 
International Disaster Assistance and the $3.5 billion under Migration 
and Refugee Assistance, how would that funding ultimately be spent 
among Israel, Ukraine, Gaza, and other countries impacted?
    Answer. While some of the requested funds address the acute 
humanitarian needs inside Ukraine and Gaza, the vast majority of the 
requested humanitarian assistance funds will provide vulnerable 
populations around the world with access to life-saving food, nutrition 
assistance, sanitation, health care, safe drinking water, shelter, and 
other basic needs. This assistance will enable the U.S. government to 
respond to new disasters as they arise. Major crises to be addressed 
include those in Sudan, Yemen, Syria, Ethiopia, and elsewhere.
    Question. For aid provided to the Palestinians, which countries or 
organizations are responsible for handling delivery?
    Answer. UNRWA has a global mandate to assist Palestinian refugees. 
UNRWA also serves as the provider of last resort for other Palestinians 
in need, including in Gaza as well as Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and the 
West Bank. Other UN agencies, international organizations, and NGOs 
also deliver humanitarian assistance to Palestinians. Regional 
partners, including the Governments of Egypt, Jordan, and Lebanon, help 
facilitate aid delivery. Israel monitors and inspects all humanitarian 
assistance going into Gaza and is tracking how it is distributed inside 
Gaza.
    Question. What is the UN's role in the provision of assistance to 
the Palestinians?
    Answer. UNRWA provides humanitarian assistance to Palestinian 
refugees and other vulnerable Palestinians--both in Gaza and the West 
Bank as well as in three other regional areas of operation: Jordan, 
Lebanon, and Syria. UNRWA also coordinates the work of other UN 
agencies in Gaza, given its unique presence and capacity there. Other 
UN agencies, such as UNICEF and the WFP, have scaled up their own 
assistance to civilians in Gaza since October 7 and also coordinate 
with UNRWA in other locations, including Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and 
the West Bank.
    Question. Is UNRWA a reliable partner in this effort?
    Answer. Yes. For this reason, the United States is the top donor to 
UNRWA, providing $422 million against its 2023 appeals. UNRWA is the 
only UN agency with the experience, footprint, and personnel necessary 
to deliver aid rapidly, effectively, and safely. Since the onset of 
this crisis, UNRWA has supported millions of vulnerable people in Gaza 
despite unprecedented challenges, including the staff's own 
dislocation, and while maintaining operations elsewhere. UNRWA follows 
strict procedures to maintain neutrality and prevent the transfer of 
supplies to Hamas or other terrorists.
    Question. What visibility does the U.S. have into how humanitarian 
items are used on the ground?
    Answer. The U.S. government has robust monitoring processes to 
ensure humanitarian relief reaches those in need and to mitigate the 
risk of material support to Hamas or other terrorists. These include 
vetting implementing partners and their key personnel; monitoring 
partner activities directly and through third parties; conducting post-
distribution surveys; and coordinating closely with Israel, which 
monitors and inspects all humanitarian assistance going into Gaza and 
is tracking how it is distributed inside Gaza. The 2023-2024 U.S.-UNRWA 
Framework for Cooperation lays out oversight commitments.
                                 ______
                                 
              Questions Submitted by Senator Bill Hagerty
    Question. On the Necessity of Transparency for U.S. Foreign 
Assistance to Hamas- Controlled Gaza: I first posed questions (1) and 
(2) directly to you via a letter that I sent to you on October 26, 
2023. In that letter, I requested that ``the State Department and USAID 
fully and faithfully respond to the two questions below prior to 
Secretary Blinken's appearances before the Senate Appropriations 
Committee hearing titled `A Review of the National Security 
Supplemental Request' on October 31, 2023.'' During the Senate 
Appropriations hearing on October 31, 2023, Secretary Blinken committed 
to providing full and faithful answers to two questions below. I 
therefore am repeating the questions so that the Senate Appropriations 
Committee receives answers to these questions that are relevant to 
responding to the Administration's request for a National Security 
Supplemental. Although Hamas--a U.S.-designated Foreign Terrorist 
Organization (FTO)--controls Gaza, the United States has continued to 
send U.S. foreign assistance to Gaza. For each of the following 
appropriations laws, I request the Department of State and United 
States Agency for International Development (USAID) to provide the 
total amount awarded--directly or indirectly--to any entity in Gaza, 
including whether the entity in Gaza was a recipient or sub recipient:
  --Amounts provided by Titles III, IV, V, and VI of Division F of 
        Public Law 116-6,
  --Amounts provided by Titles III, IV, V, and VI of Division G of 
        Public Law 116-94,
  --Amounts provided by Titles III, IV, V, and VI of Division K of 
        Public Law 116-260,
  --Amounts provided by Titles III, IV, V, and VI of Division K of 
        Public Law 117-103, and
  --Amounts provided by Titles III, IV, V, and VI of Division K of 
        Public Law 117-328.
    Answer. Thank you for your October 25 letter to me and 
Administrator Power concerning the use of U.S. foreign assistance. The 
U.S. government considers the responsible use of all taxpayer funds to 
be of the utmost importance. U.S. economic and humanitarian assistance 
programs in Gaza are designed to bolster stability for both 
Palestinians and Israelis through the provision of life-saving 
assistance and by improving the lives of millions of Palestinians, with 
the ultimate goal of promoting a negotiated two-state solution. The 
Department is working to provide a response to your letter soon.
    Question. For each award provided--directly or indirectly--to an 
entity in Gaza, including whether the entity in Gaza was a recipient or 
sub recipient, under the appropriation laws described in question (1), 
I request the Department of State and USAID to provide:
  --the total amount awarded,
  --the source of the appropriation,
  --whether the amount has been obligated, and
  --what amounts remain unexpended.
    Answer. The response to your letter will be transmitted soon.
    Question. On the Administration's Support for ``Humanitarian 
Pauses'' in Israel's War Against Hamas and Other Iran-Backed 
Palestinian Foreign Terrorist Organizations (FTOs) in Gaza: Please 
clearly explain your understanding of the difference between a 
``ceasefire,'' which the Administration has said it does not support, 
and a ``humanitarian pause,'' for which the Administration has 
repeatedly advocated.
    Answer. Humanitarian pauses are temporary, localized stoppages to 
fighting aimed to permit civilians to depart areas of active 
hostilities, allow for or increase the flow of aid, and enable hostage 
releases. Alternatively, a ceasefire is an indefinite cessation of 
military action which, in this case, would restrict Israel's ability to 
defend itself from Hamas terrorists. The Administration's position is 
that a ceasefire right now would only benefit Hamas by giving them time 
to regroup and plot new attacks.
    Question. Can you describe what kind of ``pause'' in Israeli 
military operations would not benefit Hamas by giving them time to 
regroup?
    Answer. Humanitarian pauses of limited duration allowing for the 
release of hostages and/or the establishment of humanitarian corridors 
would not give Hamas the same time to regroup that it might have 
otherwise exploited under a ceasefire. The pauses would also serve 
other strategic purposes.
    Question. Please list other examples where any state besides the 
Jewish state of Israel was pressured to agree to ``humanitarian 
pauses'' to protect civilians whom its adversary was purposefully using 
as human shields and where the ``pause'' was not conditioned on any 
change in behavior by the adversary.
    Answer. Humanitarian pauses or truces aimed at temporarily 
facilitating the delivery of humanitarian assistance have previously 
been observed in numerous contexts around the world--for example in 
Ethiopia, Indonesia, Syria, and Yemen. In those cases, pauses were 
often pursued despite state and/or nonstate armed actors' inconsistent 
respect for the protection of civilians and adherence to the principle 
of distinction. In the case of Israel, the humanitarian pause was 
contingent on a change in Hamas's behavior, namely the release of 
hostages.
    Question. On the Administration's Waiver Enabling Iraq to Provide 
Funds to Iran: How much money has been spent out of these previously 
sanctioned funds since the July waiver?
    Answer. The Administration continues to strictly enforce U.S. 
sanctions on Iran. Iran can only request that proceeds from Iraqi 
energy purchases be sent to third parties for humanitarian and other 
non-sanctionable transactions. None of the funds will ever enter Iran. 
Between July 18 and November 14, approximately $848.3 million was spent 
from Iran's restricted funds held in Iraq. This includes approximately 
$732.2 million for foodstuffs and approximately $118.4 million for 
Iranian dues owed to the KSA-based Islamic Development Bank.
    Question. Since October 7, has the Biden Administration refrozen 
all funds in Iraq, Oman, France, and Germany? If so, by what means?
    Answer. Iranian funds held in Iraq or elsewhere remain restricted. 
Along with trusted partners, we have established rigorous oversight 
mechanisms so that these restricted funds can only be used for 
humanitarian trade, meaning food, medicine, medical devices, and 
agricultural products from third-party vendors, as well as certain 
other non-sanctionable purposes with separate authorization by the U.S. 
government. None of the funds will ever enter Iran. It is in the U.S. 
interest that this money be spent from Iran's accounts held overseas to 
reduce Iran's leverage over Iraq.
                                 ______
                                 
            Questions Submitted to Hon. Lloyd J. Austin III
               Questions Submitted by Senator Joe Manchin
    Question. As you both know since the beginning of Putin's illegal 
war in Ukraine, the United States has provided over $76 billion in 
justified funding to support Ukraine, and we annually provide over $3 
billion to Israel.
    The issue of accountability is highly important to ensure good 
stewardship of American resources, but also to disprove the 
disinformation campaigns that support the false narratives of Putin, 
Iran, and terrorist organizations such as Hamas.
    Can you each simply explain the Joint Strategic Oversight Plan that 
was announced this year by the Inspectors General for DoD, the State 
Department, and the United States Agency for International Development 
(USAID)?
    Answer. In September 2023, the Chair of the Council of the 
Inspectors General on Integrity and Efficiency announced the selection, 
effective October 18, 2023, of the Honorable Robert P. Storch, the 
Department of Defense Inspector General, as the Lead Inspector General 
(Lead IG) for Operation Atlantic Resolve, which includes U.S. 
Government activities related to Ukraine, in accordance with the 
Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended (5 U.S.C. Section 419, 
previously found at 5, U.S.C. App, Section 8L).
    Section 419 of the IG Act requires the Lead IG to engage in a 
strategic oversight planning process to ensure comprehensive oversight 
of U.S. Government activities related to overseas contingency 
operations. During the oversight planning process, the Lead IG agencies 
developed strategic oversight areas (SOA), identified as 1) Security 
Assistance and Coordination, 2) Non-security Assistance and 
Coordination, and 3) Management and Operations. The Lead IG staffs 
considered many factors during this process, including U.S. Government 
and partner objectives; the amount of resources appropriated or 
otherwise made available to support military, diplomatic, and 
humanitarian activities; major departmental management challenges 
identified by each of the Lead IG agencies; and feedback from 
departmental and congressional stakeholders. The Joint Strategic 
Oversight Plan issued by the Inspectors General for the Department of 
Defense, State, and U.S. Agency for International Development 
(collectively referred to as the Lead IG agencies) on October 26, 2023, 
represents a steadfast commitment to work together to provide Congress 
and the American public with transparent, timely, and comprehensive 
oversight to ensure that U.S. assistance is reaching intended 
beneficiaries, achieving intended goals, and free from fraud, waste, 
and abuse. It describes specific projects that Lead IG and partner 
oversight agencies intend to conduct during FY 2024.
    Question. We simply must do better to get accountability reporting 
out to the public, can each of your Departments put together a fact 
sheet that our office can use when discussing this topic with our 
constituents?
    Answer. A fact sheet for the Joint Strategic Oversight Plan is 
enclosed with this submission. It highlights strategic oversight areas 
for Operation Atlantic Resolve and describes the on-going and planned 
oversight work of the Lead IG Agencies. The DoD OIG also welcomes an 
opportunity to provide further information on specific oversight issues 
of interest to the Committee and Senator Manchin.


[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                         CONCLUSION OF HEARING

    Chair Murray. With that, the committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 1:08 p.m., Tuesday, October 31, the hearing 
was concluded, and the committee was recessed, to reconvene 
subject to the call of the Chair.]

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