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F 92_ [NATIONS OF ROBERT A. FROSCH, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE (..>e

'; MYRON R. BLEE, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF OFFICE OF EMERGENCY

GOVERNMEN11NG; RICHARD! HELMS, DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE

Storage

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

-UNITED STATES SENATE

EIGHTY-NINTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

ON

NOMINATION OF ROBERT ALAN FROSCH, OF MARYLAND,

TO BE AN ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

NOMINATION OF MYRON R. BLEE, OF FLORIDA, TO BE

DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY PLANNING

NOMINATION OF RICHARD HELMS, OF THE DISTRICT OF

COLUMBIA, TO BE DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE

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JUNE 23, 1966

Printed for the use of the Committee on Armed Services

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON: 1966
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COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

RICHARD B.

JOHN STENNIS, Mississippi

STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri

HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington

SAM J. ERVIN, JR., North Carolina

HOWARD W. CANNON, Nevada

ROBERT C. BYRD, West Virginia

STEPHEN M. YOUNG, Ohio

DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii

THOMAS J. WINTYRE, New Hampshire

DANIEL B. BREWSTER, Maryland

HARRY F. BYRD, JR., Virginia

WILLIAM H. DARDEN, Chief of Staff

CHARLES B. KIRBOW, Chief Clerk

II

RUSSELL, Georgia, Chairman

LEVERETT SALTONSTALL, Massachusetts

MARGARET CHASE SMITH, Maine

STROM THURMOND, South Carolina

JACK MILLER, Iowa

JOHN G. TOWER, Texas
CONTENTS

Statements of—

Myron R. Blee, nominee, to be Deputy Director of Office of Emergency Page Planning 6

Robert Alan Frosch, nominee, to be an Assistant Secretary of the Navy 3

Richard Helms, nominee, to be Director of Central Intelligence 8

Hon. Robert W. Morse, Assistant Secretary of the Navy 2

In

NOMINATION OF ROBERT ALAN FROSCH TO BE AN

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

NOMINATION OF MYRON R. BLEE TO BE DEPUTY

DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY PLANNING

NOMINATION OF RICHARD HELMS TO BE DIRECTOR

OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE

THURSDAY, JUNE 23, 1966

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,

Washington, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m., in room 212,

Old Senate Office Building, Senator Richard B. Russell (chairman)

presiding.

Present: Senators Russell, Symington, Jackson, Inouye, McIntyre,

Saltonstall, and Thurmond.

Also present: William H. Darden, chief of staff; Herbert S. Atkinson, assistant chief clerk; T. Edward Braswell and Gordon A. Nease,

professional staff members.

NOMINATION OF ROBERT ALAN FROSCH TO BE AN ASSISTANT

SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

Chairman RUSSELL. This morning the committee is pleased to have

with us three nominees by the President of the United States to important statutory positions.

Under our precedents, nominees to these positions customarily

make a personal appearance before the committee.

Because of the desirability for conducting a part of the questioning

of Mr. Helms, who has been nominated to be Director of Central

Intelligence, in an executive session of the committee, the Chair suggests that we depart somewhat from the order that protocol might

dictate, and that we take up the nomination of Mr. Helms last,

instead of first.

We have before us Mr. Robert Alan Frosch, of Maryland, who has

been nominated to be an Assistant Secretary of the Navy, to succeed

Mr. Robert W. Morse, resigned.

Dr. Morse, Mr. Frosch's predecessor, is present to introduca

Mr. Frosch.

1
2 NOMINATION'S

Dr. Morse has made an extremely favorable impression in the

performance of his duties and in his appearances before this committee.

Dr. Morse, I would like to again express my appreciation for your

services and for your cooperation with this committee, and our

regret that you are leaving.

We will be glad to have you present Mr. Frosch.

STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT W. MORSE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY

OF THE NAVY

Mr. MORSE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to say, first, that I, too, regret leaving this most interesting and important position. However, I think I do so with the

assurance and confidence that this job will be filled by a person of the

highest competence and experience as you can see for yourself by his

outstanding record.

Dr. Frosch, although a young man, is a man who has been making

extremely rapid progress in the scientific development community.

He has, I think, exceedingly important qualifications for the job.

He has dealt not only with basic research in areas that are most

important to the Navy, such as in underwater acoustics and oceanography, but he also has had experience in systems developments,

which he has managed, of considerable magnitude, and with great

effect.

I think it is more important to recognize that he has an extremely

broad background to suit him for carrying on the supervision of the

Navy's research and development work.

I am greatly pleased to introduce him to this committee.

(The nomination reference and biography of Mr. Frosch follow:)

NOMINATION REFERENCE AND REPORT

IN EXECUTIVE SESSION,

SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,

June 6, 1966.

Ordered, That the following nomination be referred to the Committee on Armed

Services: Robert Alan Frosch, of Maryland, to be an Assistant Secretary of the

Navy vice Robert W. Morse, resigned.

BIOGRAPHY OF DR. ROBERT ALAN FROSCH

Dr. Frosch has been Deputy Director, Advanced Research Projects Agency,

Department of Defense, since June 1965. From 1963-1965 he was Director of

Nuclear Test Detection for the Advanced Research Projects Agency. He

progressively served the Hudson Laboratories of Columbia University during

1951-1963 as Scientist, Assistant Director (Theoretical Division), Associate

Director, and Director.

Dr. Frosch received his A.B., M.A. and Ph. D. (Theoretical Physics) from

Columbia University. He is a Phi Beta Kappa, a member of the American

Physical Society, a Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of

Science and the Acoustical Society of America, a senior member of the Institute of

Electrical and Electronic Engineers, and a member of several other scientific

societies. He was one of the recipients of the 1966 Arthur S. Flemming awards

honoring outstanding young men in the Federal Government. Dr. Frosch has

authored numerous scientific and technical articles.

Dr. Frosch's service with the Advanced Research Projects Agency has covered

an extensive body of information on defense research and development problems

and solutions, involving particularly nuclear test detection techniques, ballistic

missile defense technology, and materiel and techniques for counterinsurgency

warfare.
NOMINATIONS 3

As Director of Hudson Laboratories of Columbia University, Dr. Frosch had

extensive experience in naval and marine research, specializing in underwater

acoustics and undersea warfare. He was Chairman of the U.S. Navy Undersea

Warfare Research and Development Planning Council from June 1962—June 1963.

Dr. Frosch is married to the former Jessica Rachael Denerstein and they have

two daughters, ages three and five. They reside at 10105 Hurst Street, Bethesda,

Maryland.

Chairman RUSSELL. Very well. You may proceed, Dr. Frosch.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT ALAN FROSCH, NOMINEE, TO BE AN

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE NAVY

Mr. FROSCH. Thank you; Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. I am very pleased to appear before this committee in connection with my nomination to be Assistant Secretary of the Navy for

Research and Development.

I know a biography has been submitted to you. But I would like

to summarize the main points in a few minutes.

I was born on May 22, 1928, in the Bronx, New York City. I was

educated in the public schools of New York City. I was graduated

from Columbia College, of Columbia University, in New York City,

in 1947. I was a graduate student thereafter at Columbia, and received a master's degree in 1949, and a doctorate in physics from

Columbia University in 1952.

I have had no military service, being too young to serve during

World War II. I was not classified A-1 or called for induction until

about 1953. At that time the Office of Naval Research interceded

with the draft board to prevent my induction, since the work I was

engaged in for the Navy they considered to be essential.

My professional career has been with Hudson Laboratories of

Columbia University, and for the past 3 years with the Advanced

Research Projects Agency in the Office of the Secretary of Defense,

where I am presently employed.

I joined Hudson Laboratories as a scientist in 1951, while I was

completing my graduate work, and continued there, holding a number

of positions of increasing responsibility until I was appointed director

of the laboratories in 1956.

I remained as director until 1963, and then came to ARPA.

I joined ARPA as Director for nuclear test detection, also known

as Project Vela, and remained in that position for approximately

2 years, and then became Department Director of the Agency.

While at ARPA I had experience both in various aspects of nuclear

test detection and responsibility for supervision of portions of our

national research program in ballistic missile defense research and

development, in counterinsurgency warfare research and development, and in a number of other technical areas of defense interest.

I have submitted a list of my stockholdings to the chairman. I

would only like to comment in conclusion that I have been associated

with naval research and development for essentially most of my

professional career. Hudson Laboratories is operatea by Columbia

University, but it is sponsored and funded by the Office of Naval

Research to do research in underwater sound and in related marine

matters applicable to undersea warfare.

While I was at Hudson, I had considerable experience in going to

sea to do research with the Navy. I served as a member of a number
4 NOMINATIONS

of advisory committees to the Navy, principally committees dealing

with various aspects of antisubmarine warfare and oceanography.

That completes my statement, Mr. Chairman. I would be happy

to answer any questions you may have.

Chairman RUSSELL. Do you have any understanding as to how

long you are going to stay with us, Dr. Frosch?

Mr. FROSCH. No, I have no specific understanding to that effect.

I am prepared to remain in the position as long as I feel that I am

useful and my superiors feel that I continue to be useful.

Chairman RUSSELL. I am glad to hear that. We have had quite

a turnover in some of these key positions.

I am advised that we have not received your communication relative

to your holdings, Mr. Frosch. Have you talked to the Acting General Counsel, Department of Defense, about that?

Mr. FROSCH. I have spoken with Mr. Stempler, who is legislative

liaison. He has checked out my stockholdings, and tells me that my

holdings are not listed as having any contractual relation with the

Department of Defense.

Chairman RUSSELL. Very well. We are glad to get that information. But just for the benefit of our files, that will be submitted

to the committee.

Senator Saltonstall?

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman—Dr. Frosch, your work

has been, up to the present time, as I listened to you, in nuclear

physics and in naval and marine research.

This position, as I understand it, is sort of the overall guiding for

research efforts in all the departments—Army, Navy, and Air Force.

Chairman RUSSELL. Just in the Navy.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Isn't he going into the Defense Department.

Chairman RUSSELL. Dr. Frosch is going to be Research Director

of the Navy.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Doctor, I am misinformed. I am always

guided by the chairman of the committee up to a point, and from that

point I go off on my own.

Chairman RUSSELL. After that point he says he is misinformed.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I think the chairman wins on that one.

I won't go any further.

Your work is going to be confined, then, to the Navy?

Mr. FROSCH. Yes, it is, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And so you will be very much concerned

with the Navy ASW research, and all that goes with it. And from

your experience and from your record, I think that you would be a

very good man for it.

I join with the chairman in saying that the research people of the

Defense Department right down the line seem to turn over rapidly,

and I would hope if you come into this position now you would give

the Navy as much time and length of time as you possibly can.

Mr. Chairman, I have no further questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Have you had any experience with the surface

to air missiles of the Navy?

Mr. FROSCH. I have had no personal experience with those missiles.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Symington?

Senator SYMINGTON. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Jackson?
NOMINATIONS 5

Senator JACKSON. Mr. Chairman, I have no questions. All I have

heard about Dr. Frosch is very good.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Inouye?

Senator INOUYE. I have no questions, I just wish to congratulate

the doctor.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator McIntyre?

Senator MCINTYRE. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Thank you very much, Dr. Frosch.

Glad to have had you here.

(The nomination of Mr. Frosch to be an Assistant Secretary of the

Navy (Research and Development) was subsequently approved by

the committee in executive session and confirmed by the Senate on

June 24, 1966.)

NOMINATION OF MYRON R. BLEE TO BE DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF

OFFICE OF EMERGENCY PLANNING

Chairman RUSSELL. The next nominee is Mr. Myron R. Blee.

Mr. Blee has been nominated to be the Deputy Director of the Office

of Emergency Planning, vice Franklin B. Dryden, resigned.

We are glad to have you here this morning, Dr. Blee, and congratulate you on your nomination to this position.

The committee members have copies of your printed biography, but

we would appreciate it if you could give us a brief oral summary of

your background experience before any questions are propounded.

Mr. Blee is a transplanted Illinoisan who went down to Florida a few

years ago, and the present Director of OEP feels he will be vital to his

operation of the office.

(The nomination reference and biography of Mr. Blee follow:)

NOMINATION REFERENCE AND REPORT

IN EXECUTIVE SESSION,

SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,

June 6, 1966.

Ordered, That the following nomination be referred to the Committee on

Armed Services: Myron R. Blee, of Florida, to be Deputy Director of the Office

of Emergency Planning vice Franklin B. Dryden, resigned.

BIOGRAPHY OF MYRON R. BLEE

Born at Paw Paw, Illinois on February 25, 1917, and educated at Northern

Illinois University (B. Ed. degree) and the University of Illinois, from which he

received an M.A. in Political Science (Public Administration) in 1939 and an

Ed. D. degree in 1958. From 1951-1955 he was a Special Student at Florida

State University.

He served on active duty in the Navy from 1942-46 and was released in 1946

as a Lieutenant Commander. His last naval assignment was Officer-in-Charge

of "Barber's Point University" at Oahu, Hawaii. He has served as Associate

Dean of Men at Northern Illinois University and as Associate Director of Florida

Legislative Reference Bureau where he directed a study of the State University

System and a study of educational T—V. He later served as Associate Director

of the Council for the Study of Higher Education in Florida. From 1956-61,

he was Professional staff officer of the Florida Board of Regents. From 1961-65

he was President and Director of the Florida Institute for Continuing University

Studies, the off campus unit of the State University System with seven resident

centers. During this period he directed graduate programs in Engineering,

Research and Development Management, and Education, including radio and

television. In 1965 he became Associate Dean, Academic Affairs of the Florida

65-449-66 2
6 NOMINATIONS

Atlantic University at Boca Raton. He is President-designate, Junior College

of Broward County, Fort Lauderdale, Florida.

He married Miss Charlotte Marie Leverenz of Elgin, Illinois on January 1,

1941 and their daughter Kathleen Marie is a student at Agnes Scott College,

Decatur, Georgia. Mrs. Blee was Chairman of the Committee on Legislation of

the National Congress of Parents and Teachers.

Dr. Blee serves on the Board of Trustees of the Bethune Cookman College

and of the Wesley Foundation of Florida State University. He is a member of

various educational associations and learned societies and is the author of

numerous books and articles on education and public administration.

STATEMENT OF MYRON R. BLEE, NOMINEE, TO BE DEPUTY

DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF EMERGENCY PLANNING

Mr. BLEE. I am honored to be here as the President's nominee for

the post of Deputy Director of OEP, and to have this prospect for

increased service with my associate, Mr. Bryant.

As the Chairman has graciously pointed out, I am a native son of

Illinois, and have been an adopted son of Florida since 1951.

My educational background is detailed in the statement. My experience has been in educational research and in administration.

My major administrative posts have been in the State university

system of Florida, and in an academic post at the Florida Atlantic

University. Now I am associated with the Junior College of Broward

County, in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

If there are any questions, gentlemen, or any additional information

that you would like, I would be honored to present it.

Chairman RUSSELL. Dr. Blee, do you own any stocks in any companies that are involved in any possible conflict of interest?

Mr. BLEE. No, sir, only Government bonds.

Chairman RUSSELL. You have no common stocks?

Mr. BLEB. No, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Saltonstall?

Senator SALTONSTALL. I don't think I have any questions, Mr.

Chairman.

Senator SYMINGTON. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Senator JACKSON. No questions.

Senator INOUYE. No questions, sir.

Senator MCINTYRE. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Thank you, Dr. Blee.

Mr. BLEE. Thank you.

(The nomination of Mr. Blee to be Deputy Director of the Office of

Emergency Planning was subsequently approved by the committee

in executive session and confirmed by the Senate on June 24, 1966.)

NOMINATION OF RICHARD HELMS, TO BE DIRECTOR OF CENTRAL

INTELLIGENCE

Chairman RUSSELL. Mr. Richard Helms of the District of Columbia, who is currently serving as Deputy Director of Central

Intelligence, has been nominated by the President to be the Director

of Central Intelligence. Mr. Helms' nomination was referred to this

committee on June 20. Under our standing rules he is not eligible

for reporting until after 7 days, which would be of course Monday,

the 27th. Since this may be our last full committee meeting before

the end of the month, the Chair took the liberty of inviting Mr. Helms
NOMINATIONS 7

to be present this morning, in order that the members of the committee

may have an opportunity to question him.

Any action the committee may take on this nomination today would

of course be contingent on the expiration of the 7-day waiting period

prescribed by the rules.

Mr. Helms, your nomination has been the subject of extensive

favorable comment, and on the basis of the long association that this

committee has had with you, the Chair is glad to have an opportunity

to express his belief that all of this commendation is fully deserved.

While you have appeared often before the CIA Subcommittee, the

Chair welcomes you before the full committee. For those members

who may be unfamiliar with your background, please give us a brief

biographical summary before we begin the questioning. And if you

will be good enough, I would like for you to stay after we go into

executive sessions.

You may proceed, Mr. Helms.

(The nomination reference and biography of Mr. Helms referred

to follow)

NOMINATION REFERENCE AND REPORT

IN EXECUTIVE SESSION,

SENATE OF THE UNITED STATES,

June 20, 1966.

Ordered, That the following nomination be referred to the Committee on Armed

Services: Richard Helms, of the District of Columbia, to be Director of Central

Intelligence.

BIOGRAPHY OF RICHARD MC GARRAH HELMS

Richard Mc Garrah Helms was born March 30, 1913, in St. Davids, Pennsylvania. He attended Carteret Academy in Orange, New Jersey; Le Rosey at

Rolle, Switzerland; and the Realgymnasium in Freiburg i/Breisgau, Germany.

He was graduated with a B.A. degree from Williams College in 1935, where he

was elected to Phi Beta Kappa.

Mr. Helms was a staff correspondent for the United Press in Germany from

1935 to 1937, after which he went to Indianapolis, Indiana, as Retail Advertising

Solicitor for the Indianapolis Times, a Scripps-Howard newspaper. In 1939 he

became National Advertising Manager for that journal.

He is remembered by his classmates of Williams College as the Editor-in-Chief

of the yearbook, Gulielmensian and also as the Editor-in-Chief of the college

newspaper, the Williams Record.

While with the United Press in Europe, Mr. Helms interviewed Hitler and

later his story "Hitler and Mars Incorporated" was published in the Indianapolis

Times.

During the winter of 1942, he was connected with the public relations effort of

the Navy Relief Society fund raising drive in New York City.

Mr. Helms was commissioned Lieutenant (jg), United States Naval Reserve,

on 1 July 1942, and after attending Naval Training School, Harvard University,

was assigned as Operations Officer, Headquarters, Eastern Sea Frontier. In 1943,

Mr. Helms began his intelligence career. He was ssigned in August of that year

to the Office of Strategic Services and saw service in Washington, England,

France, and Germany.

Upon discharge from the United States Naval Reserve in 1946, Mr. Helms

was employed as a civilian in the Strategic Services Unit, War Department,

which was the successor organization to a major part of the Office of Strategic

Services. He was employed there until the establishment of the Central Intelligence Group, to which he was transferred. He was then assigned to the Central

Intelligence Agency when it was established on 18 September 1947. In August

of 1952 he was appointed by General Walter Bedell Smith, then Director of

Central Intelligence, as Deputy to the Deputy Director of Plans. On 17 February

1962, he was appointed Deputy Director for Plans by John A. McCone.

Mr. Helms and Julia Bretzman of Indianapolis, Indiana, were married in.

1939. Their family includes one son, Dennis, who is now a student at the University of Virginia Law School.
8 NOMINATIONS

Mr. Helms was nominated by President Johnson as Deputy Director of Central

Intelligence on 14 April 1965. He took the oath of office as Deputy Director on

28 April 1965 and has served in that capacity up to the present.

STATEMENT OF RICHARD HELMS, NOMINEE, TO BE DIRECTOR

OF CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE

Mr. HELMS. I was born on March 30, 1913. I graduated from

Williams College in 1935. I worked for the United Press Association

from the fall of 1935 to the spring of 1937, at which time I went with

the Indianapolis Times, a Scripps-Howard paper, in Indianapolis, Ind.

I was with them in the business department until the war came along,

at which time I joined the U.S. Naval Reserve. I served a year in

antisubmarine warfare on the eastern sea frontier, after which time I

was assigned to the Office of Strategic Services as a naval officer.

I stayed with the Office of Strategic Services until the end of the

war and with the successor agency, Strategic Services Unit of the

State and War Departments, and then with the CIG, and then I

joined the CIA when it became an Agency by statute in 1947, and I

have been with it since. I was nominated by the President to be

Deputy Director of Central Intelligence on April 14, 1965, and I

have been in that position until nominated for Director, Central

Intelligence, on last Saturday afternoon.

Chairman RUSSELL. Has all of your service in CIA been here in

Washington?

Mr. HELMS. Yes, sir, it has been here in Washington. I was overseas with the Office of Strategic Services, but I have been with the CIA

in Washington.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Saltonstall?

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman—thank you.

Mr. Helms, of course I have known you for quite a while now in

appearances before our committee headed by the present chairman,

Senator Russell. I have learned to regard you and the way you

report to us very highly.

There are several questions that I would like to ask you. If you

feel you cannot answer them in public hearing, you say so. But I

think that it would be extremely helpful, in view of the newspaper

publicity and everything that is given to the CIA at the present time,

if you could go as far as you can.

Now, one of the questions that is asked me all the time—and I get

letters on the subject—is that the CIA creates foreign policy, that it

takes a certain amount of policy away from the President, away from

the Secretary of State. That is not my understanding of your duties.

But I would like to have you clarify your thoughts, taking over as

Director of the CIA, as to what you consider the limitations of your

responsibilities.

Mr. HELMS. The Central Intelligence Agency has no responsibility

whatever for governmental policy. To the best of my knowledge,

we have never made any effort to make any Government policy.

The function of the Agency and its Director is to make available to the

policymakers of our Government, from the President on down, that

information based on which we hope they can make intelligent policy

decisions. But we do not attempt to influence these decisions. We

present the facts as objectively and straightforwardly as we can, and
NOMINATIONS 9

any time that there are any comments in these matters, that have to

do with the Agency's particular view of an intelligence problem,

they are clearly identified as such.

• As you well know, Senator Saltonstall, it is in the national intelligence estimates, which the Agency drafts and later presents to the

President, that we find the synthesis of all the work that we do.

These estimates of what is going on in the Soviet Union and other

parts of the world, are fully coordinated inside the intelligence community, they are thoroughly gone over, and anybody that wants to dissent from one, dissents in a footnote, puts it in his own lariguage,

and signs his own name to the dissent, so that it is quite clear to the reader who dissented and why. It is clear all the way through exactly who is doing what in all of these papers. There is never any

effort whatever to influence the President's decision one way or the other.

Senator SALTONSTALL. When you assume your duties as Director,

and I hope you will assume them, you would tend to maintain that policy just as carefully and just as actively as you can?

Mr. HELMS. Just as carefully and actively as I can.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And if there are any actions taken by the

CIA in any country, am I correct in stating that it is a result of a

decision made by the National Security Council.

Mr. HELMS. Sir, the Central Intelligence Agency takes no actions without approval from the appropriate officials of the U.S. Government, and they are not in the CIA.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And then there is another thing that is

brought up all the time. While the amounts of your budget are not

specifically set out, and it is very important that they not be specifically set out if you are to maintain your responsibilities as an intelligence agency, what steps are taken to make sure in the Government,

in the executive department, that your budget is thoughtfully and

carefully and systematically worked out so that the money is not

wasted and that it is efficiently worked out?

Mr. HELMS. Well, as you know, Senator, the Bureau of the Budget

goes over the Central Intelligence Agency budget as carefully as any

budget in Washington. In fact, Admiral Raborn is my source for

this because he worked so long in the Defense Department on the

Polaris program and other things, that he has never seen a budget in his whole experience in Washington that is as carefully gone over item

by item as the CIA budget before it is ever submitted to the Congress.

As you well know, in addition, Congressman Mahon's committee goes

over it item by item and also the CIA Subcommittee of Senate Appropriations is furnished the same information.

Senator SALTONSTALL. SO that from the point of view of a Government department, you are supervised in the executive department,

in your terms, more carefully than most other departments?

Mr. HELMS. That is correct, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And essentially, you are an Agency—your

department is an Agency of the National Security Council?

Mr. HELMS. That is correct, sir, by statute.

Senator SALTONSTALL. By statute. And you report directly

anything that you have of importance to the National Security

Council?

Mr. HELMS. Yes, sir; immediately.
10 NOMINATIONS

Senator SALTONSTALL. And the Chairman of that Council is the

President of the United States?

Mr. HELMS. Yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think that

is all right now.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Symington?

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, I have known Mr. Helms

for some time first through Frank Wisner, the latter an old and close

friend over the years who literally gave his life for his country.

Wisner always said he thought Mr. Helms was the ablest man in

this line of business.

In the years that I have known the nominee, his character, ability,

experience, and perhaps most important, the confidence and respect

of his own organization have been impressive. As anybody who has

had experience with management knows, the advantages of promoting

people from inside,- instead of going outside, are great indeed.

I would say at this point, however, that Admiral Raborn did a

mighty fine job, and I regret it is necessary for him to leave the Government. I know we all wish him the very best of luck in his new venture,

whatever that may be.

The question I was going to ask Mr. Helms—because it has been

flogged for a long time around here—was the question the distinguished Senator from Massachusetts brought up—whether or not

the Central Intelligence Agency makes policy.

I was once a member of the National Security Council, and it has

been hard for me to understand how this story could have gotten

around to the extent it has, because of the nature of the organizational

chart incident to the operations of the CIA.

Because of the ability and character of the Secretary of Defense

perhaps it is comparable to all the talk about "McNamara's war."

So many people have tagged everything onto the CIA, except the

failure of the Yankees to win in the American League, I suppose in

a way it is a tribute to the CIA.

I would ask this one question, however.

Inasmuch as the National Security Council is an advisory council,

advisory to the President of the United States, actually you report

directly to the President, do you not?

Mr. HELMS. That is correct, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. I wanted to be sure that point was understood.

How many languages do you speak, Mr. Helms?

Mr. HELMS. French and German, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, speaking as a citizen, I am

glad about this appointment, and have no further questions or

comments.

Chairman RUSSELL. The Secretary of State is a member of the

National Security Council, is he not, Mr. HELMS?

Mr. HELMS. Yes, sir, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of

Defense, and the Secretary of the Treasury, and the Director of the

Office of Emergency Planning.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Jackson?

Senator JACKSON. Well, Mr. Chairman, just following up on the

point raised by Senator Saltonstall, and also alluded to by Senator

Symington—it seems to me, Mr. Helms, that these allegations about

your agencymaking policy, foreign policy, are a great tribute to the
NOMINATIONS 11

him.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Inouye?

Senator INOUYE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman

to congratulate Mr. Helms on his appointment.

This may be repetitious, Mr. Helms, but you

activities are carried out as a result of policies

priations of the Government?

Mr. HELMS. Yes, sir.

high degree of professionalism and competency that exists in the

CIA. I think much of this idea stems from the fact that you have

a lot of real bright, sharp people. I think you can take pride in that

fact. They know a lot about foreign policy. They know a lot about

defense policy. They know a lot about national security. And

when you have people like that around, maybe sometimes people

in the course of events ask questions of them, and they get to respect

them.

So I want to say that—speaking just as one Senator—I think it is a

great tribute to the CIA—and as I say, the high degree of professionalism that exists in that organization.

That is my comment. It is not a question, Mr. Chairman.

I, too, want to associate myself with the remarks of the chairman

and the others here at the table about the nominee. I have known

Mr. Helms for a number of years. There is no doubt about his ability,

his integrity, his competency, and what I referred to earlier as a high

degree of professionalism.

On top of all that, I think you have a lot of good judgment.

That comes in handy.

Chairman RUSSELL. With all deference to Mr. Helms, I think that

it should be stated that Admiral Raborn was very reluctant to assume

this position, and at the time he accepted it he put a limit on the time

he was going to stay. His departure from this job was not in anywise

occasioned or influenced by any controversy about the CIA, but was

prearranged some months in advance.

Senator JACKSON. Mr. Chairman, I also wanted to say what Senator Symington and you said about Admiral Raborn. He has certainly been a dedicated servant of the Federal Government, both

in uniform and out of uniform. I have had an opportunity to know

him over many, many years, and we all hate to see him leave.

Senator SYMINGTON. Will the chairman yield in context?

Chairman RUSSELL. Yes.

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, I would make the point also

that Admiral Raborn told me at least a year ago now that he intended

to only stay here a year.

Chairman RUSSELL. He was very reluctant to come in the first

instance. Only the spirit of patriotism moved him to do it, because

he had what would be considered down my way a very wonderful

job on the west coast at the time he decided to come here.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, may I just add my words

to that, too. I had great confidence as a member of the Appropriations Committee and a member of this committee listening to Admiral

Raborn in his efforts to build our nuclear submarine the nuclear

power that goes with it and all that made that submarine so effective.

When he came on to the CIA position, I knew that he would be a

good administrator, and he has proved such. Personally, I shall miss

First I would like

have stated that your

established by appro-
12 NOMINATIONS

Senator INOUYE. My other question is, Is there any sort of duplication or overlapping of functions or activities among the three major

security agencies—the CIA, FBI, and the Secret Service?

Mr. HELMS. No, sir. I can honestly say that except to the extent

that there is always a tiny bit of overlapping between any two organizations operating in the same general field, this has been worked

down now to the point where I think it can safely be said there is

absolutely an irreducible minimum of duplication among these three

agencies.

Senator INOUYE. How do you coordinate your activities?

Mr. HELMS. The FBI, as you know, has jurisdiction for counterintelligence matters and security matters inside the United States.

The Central Intelligence Agency has jurisdiction outside the continental limit of the United States, so that as soon as a human being

crosses that mystical line, the files are referred from one agency to

the other. And as far as the Secret Service is concerned, they are

really in a sense—in their protection of the President—a customer of

ours, for whatever information we might pick up which might be of

interest to them. And in the field of counterfeiting and things of that

kind, the same rules apply.

So there is a much closer relationship between the Secret Service

and the FBI since they are in the domestic field, than there is between

us and these other two agencies.

Senator INOUYE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator McIntyre?

Senator MCINTYRE. I have no questions except to congratulate

Mr. Helms, wish him the best of good luck.

Chairman RUSSELL. What relationship does the CIA bear to the

Foreign Service abroad in our embassies, Mr. Helms? What are the

mandates or instructions that have been issued in this respect to the

Director?

Mr. HELMS. Sir, the instructions of the President are that the

Ambassador is the head of the U.S. country team in every country in

the world, and he presides therefore over the works of any agency

representative in those countries, as well as all other agencies of the

U.S. Government. This is quite clear. Our representatives keep

that Ambassador appropriately informed at all times.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Symington?

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, I would add this.

When I was in the Far East with Mr. Eugene Black, at the time

he set up the Asian Bank in the Philippines, a strong attack by a

Senator came out against the Central Intelligence Agency, the implication being they made policy, and were not satisfactory to ambassadors. So I would like the record to show that I asked the ambassadors of the following countries whether or not they were satisfied

with the operation of the Central Intelligence Agency in their particular country; and each one of them, without exception, said that they

were not only satisfied, they were pleased with the operation. Some

said they didn't see how they could run the job without the assistance

that they were receiving from the Central Intelligence Agency. All

of them said that at no time did they have any problem whatever at

this time with any effort on the part of the Central Intelligence Agency

to set policy.
NOMINATIONS 13

One said that some years back there had been a problem, but it had

long since been corrected.

The countries where I asked for the record were Japan, Korea,

Taiwan, Hong Kong, South Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, the Philippines,

the United Arab Republic, Switzerland, Germany, France, and Great

Britain.

Chairman RUSSELL. I can add to that in some of my trips abroad,

when I wished to reach a representative of the Central Intelligence

Agency, I usually had to go through the Ambassador to even find him.

Senator SYMINGTON. I would add, Mr. Chairman, Spain and

Brazil.

Chairman RUSSELL. Any further questions of Mr. Helms?

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, may I just ask this question:

Criticism has been made, Mr. Helms, that the CIA does not give

the appropriate committees of Congress all the information that those

committees should have. As a member of that committee in the

Senate since its inception—I believe since its inception—I have

never found that to be true.

I would like simply to ask you this question:

As the Director, certainly it is your intention that within the

limits of your authority under the President of the United States to

give the committees of Congress all the information that they request,

and all the information that you believe you have in your possession

that would be helpful to them?

Mr. HELMS. That is my intention, Senator.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you.

Chairman RUSSELL. If that is all, the committee will now resolve

itself into executive session.

Mr. Helms, if you will remain, please, sir.

(Whereupon, at 11:10 a.m., the committee went into executive

session.)

(The nomination of Mr. Helms to be Director of Central Intelligence

was subsequently approved by the committee in executive session

and confirmed by the Senate on June 28, 1966.)

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