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[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

             SUPPORTING GEORGIA'S SOVEREIGNTY AND DEMOCRACY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

            COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE

                        U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION
                               __________

                              JUNE 5, 2024
                               __________

 Printed for the use of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in 
                                 Europe

                              [CSCE118-4]
                              
                              
                  [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                              

                       Available via www.csce.gov
                       
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
55-937                     WASHINGTON : 2024                          

            COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE

                        U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION

             U.S. HOUSE				U.S SENATE

JOE WILSON, South Carolina Chairman	 BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland Co-
					     Chairman
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee Ranking 
    Member				 ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi 
ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama		     Ranking Member
EMANUEL CLEAVER II, Missouri		 RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona			 JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina		 TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
MICHEAL LAWLER, New York		 JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana		 TINA SMITH, Minnesota
MARC A. VEASEY, Texas			 THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
					 SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
                           
                            EXECUTIVE BRANCH
                   Department of State - Erin Barclay
               Department of Defense - Celeste Wallander
                  Department of Commerce - Don Graves

                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                             COMMISSIONERS

Hon. Joe Wilson, Chairman, from South Carolina...................     1

Hon. Steve Cohen, Ranking Member, from Tennessee.................     3

Hon. Richard Blumenthal, from Connecticut........................    12

Hon. Victoria Spartz, from Indiana...............................    15

                               WITNESSES

Ivane Chkhikvadze, EU Integration Program Manager, Civil Society 
  Foundation, and Georgia Country Consultant, European Endowment 
  for Democracy..................................................     5

Natalie Sabanadze, Senior Fellow, Chatham House, and former 
  Georgian ambassador to the EU..................................     7

William Courtney, [ret.], Adjunct Senior Fellow, RAND 
  Corporation, and former U.S. Ambassador to Georgia.............     9

 
             SUPPORTING GEORGIA'S SOVEREIGNTY AND DEMOCRACY

                              ----------                              

   COMMISSION ON SECURITY & COOPERATION IN 
                                    EUROPE,
                          U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION,
                                  HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
                                             Tuesday, June 5, 2024.

    The hearing was held from 2:16 p.m. to 3:20 p.m., Room 210, 
Cannon House Office Building, Representative Joe Wilson [R-SC], 
Chairman, Commission for Security and Cooperation in Europe, 
presiding.

    Committee Members Present: Representative Joe Wilson [R-
SC], Chairman; Representative Steve Cohen [D-TN], Ranking 
Member; Senator Richard Blumenthal [D-CT]; Representative 
Victoria Spartz [R-IN].
    Witnesses: Ivane Chkhikvadze, EU Integration Program 
Manager, Civil Society Foundation, and Georgia Country 
Consultant, European Endowment for Democracy; Natalie 
Sabanadze, Senior Fellow, Chatham House, and former Georgian 
ambassador to the EU; Ambassador [ret.] William Courtney, 
Adjunct Senior Fellow, RAND Corporation, and former U.S. 
Ambassador to Georgia.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF JOE WILSON, CHAIRMAN, U.S. HOUSE, FROM 
                         SOUTH CAROLINA

    Chairman Wilson: [Sounds gavel.] Ladies and gentlemen, good 
afternoon. I am Congressman Joe Wilson, the chairman of the 
Helsinki Commission. I am very grateful to be here today. On 
behalf of the United States Helsinki Commission, I want to 
welcome everyone here and thank you for joining us today for 
this very important hearing.
    Thank goodness that we have really talented staff who know 
how to move microphones. [Laughter.]
    This hearing comes at a critical moment for the nation of 
Georgia. Since it regained its independence in 1991 the United 
States and Georgia have come to a close, inseparable 
relationship based on the shared vision of democratic 
principles and a strong and free Euro-Atlantic.
    Our two countries have worked closely together to develop 
deep and far-reaching reforms in Georgia, spurring investment 
and economic development, and we have worked side by side for 
the common cause of regional and European peace. Our soldiers 
have fought together in Afghanistan, Iraq, and beyond, and the 
United States has contributed over six billion in direct 
assistance and much more to provide opportunities and open 
horizons for the Georgian people.
    The United States, along with our colleagues in Europe, 
have long, strong, and steadfast friends through the people of 
Georgia. Unfortunately, this powerful bond has recently come 
under a withering attack by the ruling Georgian Dream Party led 
by the billionaire founder Bidzina Ivanishvili.
    The Georgian Dream government has openly renounced their 
long-standing democratic and Euro-Atlantic choice of the 
Georgian people, ramming a Putin-esque style foreign agent law 
through parliament despite months of mass protests, as you see 
from the posters behind us, and damning public opinion.
    This law is openly intended to stigmatize and undermine the 
nation's independent civil society and media and suppress 
avenues for alternative thought or dissent. Worse, this foreign 
agent law appears to be only the tip of the iceberg of the 
government's anti-democratic turn.
    Additional policies and legislation are gutting the 
independent remaining vestiges of the Central Election 
Commission, finalizing the capture of the beleaguered judiciary 
and civil society actors and activists as well as their 
families as being actively threatened, intimidated, and even 
assaulted by government-linked thugs.
    Opposition offices have been raided, destroyed, and with 
graffiti vandalized. Georgian Dream is actively embracing war 
criminal Putin and other authoritarians despite Putin occupying 
20 percent of its internationally recognized territory and it 
illegally seized that territory in a longer brutal history of 
colonial Soviet subjugation and aggression.
    The ruling party has found common cause with war criminal 
Putin, which has been all too happy to cosign Georgia Dream's 
conspiracy-riddled anti-Western turn. Russian intelligence 
assets operate in Georgia with impunity. Georgia's security 
services have been turned on the population while Georgian 
sovereignty has been bargained away to the Russian empire for 
the cheap baubles of power and material gain.
    Georgian Dream is also expanding its ties with the Chinese 
Communist Party rapidly and handing over key infrastructure to 
the People's Liberation Army military-linked companies as 
another aspect of his dictatorial turn. The United States must 
not allow this attack on Georgian democracy and its Euro-
Atlantic future to go unanswered. That is why I welcomed the 
State Department's recent announcement of a visa ban policy 
against any individual undermining Georgian democracy.
    We must do more to keep our promises to the people of 
Georgia. I am grateful to introduce the MEGOBARI Act along with 
my colleagues and friends of the nation of Georgia Ranking 
Member Steve Cohen, Congressman Richard Hudson of North 
Carolina, and Congressman Marc Veasey of Texas. Bipartisan.
    This legislation will provide the State Department with 
additional tools and guidance for promulgating visa 
restrictions and financial sanctions against those who 
undermine Georgian democracy and engage in repressive measures 
against the Georgian people.
    It will also produce reporting to highlight the extent of 
Russian and Chinese malign influence in Georgia and the way 
those efforts have become closely intertwined with key 
individuals in Georgia. It also will require the administration 
to move quickly to establish a pre-election task force in 
Georgia to work urgently to help protect the democratic 
environment ahead of the October 2024 elections.
    Additionally, the spirit of the MEGOBARI bill highlights a 
more robust and positive framework for U.S.-Georgia bilateral 
relations. That is why the legislation calls for expanded trade 
ties, streamlined people-to-people contacts, and robust 
economic and security assistance packages when the Georgian 
government returns to the long-standing democratic and Euro-
Atlantic choice of its people.
    It is critical to show the Georgian Dream that we are 
serious about our support for the Georgian population with whom 
we seek to continue a positive and collaborative future. I am 
pleased to say that the MEGOBARI Act has strong bipartisan 
support and we are grateful to welcome endorsements from 
Freedom House, the Georgian Association of the USA who are here 
today in dynamic leadership. We appreciate you being here.
    The Central and East European coalition Razom, which has 
been so effective in promoting freedom and democracy for the 
people of Ukraine, the North Caucasus Nations Committee, and 
others. I look forward to working with Commissioner Jeanne 
Shaheen to combine our efforts for the tremendous people of 
Georgia.
    Today we will hear from some of the leading experts in 
Georgia about this dynamic and worrying situation. I am pleased 
to welcome Ivane Chkhikvadze who is here in the middle --thank 
you--who is the European Union integration program manager at 
the Civil Society Foundation in Tbilisi and a Georgia country 
consultant for the European Endowment for Democracy; Ambassador 
Natalie Sabanadze, who is a senior fellow at Chatham House, the 
Royal Institute of International Affairs in London, the former 
Georgian ambassador to the European Union, and a former senior 
official at the OSCE; and Ambassador William Courtney, an 
adjunct fellow at the RAND Corporation and a former U.S. 
ambassador to Georgia.
    We are grateful for your presence and your testimony today, 
and before we hear from our witnesses I would like to give the 
floor to my very honored colleague Congressman Steve Cohen, the 
ranking member from Tennessee.

  STATEMENT OF STEVE COHEN, RANKING MEMBER, U.S. HOUSE, FROM 
                           TENNESSEE

    Representative Cohen: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to 
all the folks in attendance here. This is a very important 
issue for the United States and for the world. Our witnesses 
will enlighten us on what has been occurring in Georgia and 
what the impact is on the world and freedom.
    I happened to have been in Georgia in 2012, I believe it 
was when the Georgia Dream came to power, and at the time Mr. 
Ivanishvili gave the impression that he was going to be a 
reformer and it was, indeed, a dream and a good dream. Mr. 
Saakashvili was running a pretty draconian prison system and 
had quite a bit of opposition because of the lack of liberties 
that he was seeing for people in prison and the use of the 
prison system to punish folks.
    Mr. Ivanishvili has held power now for 12 years, and while 
he is not the prime minister or the president he is the man. He 
runs the show. I do not like to necessarily judge people by the 
way I see them and the first time I see them, but the first 
time I saw him I thought, this is no dream. He looked like so 
many corporate businesspeople who want to run everything and 
autocrat types and powerful folks who are looking for a 
government as a way to expand their desires and interests and 
fulfill their destiny as they see it, and I think he has proved 
that to be true. That first glimpse, I think, was appropriate.
    Mr. Saakashvili now I think resides in jail, has been there 
for quite a while, and is treated pretty awfully. I am the OSCE 
special representative on political prisoners. I am concerned 
about Mr. Saakashvili, who is a political prisoner. He has, I 
think, been in very ill health and his life may be in danger.
    This law that was just passed it was said that they wanted 
to make sure that there were not foreign agents dealing in 
Georgia. What it was, I think, it is not so much foreign agents 
as they labeled civil groups and NGOs but transparency and 
freedoms which the NGOs encourage and espouse.
    They are not really interested in that. They are interested 
in government control. A country that tries to bully its NGOs 
is a country that is not a democracy. It is not Western values. 
Georgia, obviously, we know wants to join the European Union. 
That would be good for them economically. They would like to--I 
guess they would like to be in NATO. I do not know.
    Ms. Sabanadze: Yes.
    Representative Cohen: Okay, good. Yes. [Laughter.]
    They are not--their being so close to Russia, and they 
should have learned from South Ossetia Russia is not their 
friend. Of course, they still have a reverence for Stalin. I 
went up to--what is the name of the--it starts with a G, maybe.
    Chairman Wilson: Gori.
    Representative Cohen: Gori went to the Stalin Museum. It is 
kind of interesting to see that and he has kind of come back 
and always looked upon as a Georgian that had done good. Well, 
he did good. He did bad and that is how he did good. Kind of a 
mix. They seem to have somewhat of a reverence for him.
    I would like to--I am just looking forward to hearing from 
the witnesses where is Saakashvili and how is he--what is his 
conditions if you know and, Ambassador, you probably have 
knowledge on that and appreciate your being here to edify us.
    I yield back the balance of my time.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Ranking Member Steve 
Cohen of Tennessee.
    As we begin today, I would like to ask for unanimous 
consent. We have a letter submitted for the record from the 
leader of the Georgian Labor Party Shalva Natelashvili, and so 
without objection, this shall be entered into the record.
    We will now begin with each witness and my goal is that 
each have five minutes and then we will proceed, and we will 
have members of Congress and Senate and the House coming back 
and forth. To give everybody time, we could limit it to five 
minutes each, and then equally, we are limited to five minutes 
each, too.
    With this in mind, I would like to begin with Ivane 
Chkhikvadze and so thank you very much for your being here 
today.

TESTIMONY OF IVANE CHKHIKVADZE, EU INTEGRATION PROGRAM MANAGER, 
   CIVIL SOCIETY FOUNDATION, AND GEORGIA COUNTRY CONSULTANT, 
                EUROPEAN ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY

    Mr. Chkhikvadze: Thank you, Chairman Wilson and honorary 
members of the Commission. Allow me please to express my 
genuine appreciation for holding this very timely and important 
hearing and also giving me the opportunity to address the 
distinguished guests and participants of this meeting.
    I would like to focus your attention on the latest 
developments in Georgia regarding democratic backsliding, which 
is taking place in the country, with a particular emphasis on 
the adoption of the Russian-style law on transparency of 
foreign influence that the ruling Georgian Dream Party recently 
adopted.
    First, allow me to present myself. I am Ivane Chkhikvadze, 
as it was already mentioned here, and I have been working as a 
leader of the EU integration program at the Civil Society 
Foundation for more than 10 years, and together with my 
colleagues, some of them are here, we have been supporting and 
promoting Georgia's Europeanization and democratization process 
for decades.
    We have spent almost entire our lives fighting for 
Georgia's freedom, democracy, and the future, that is, with 
Europe and with the West, and now when it comes to the topic of 
today's hearing my country and my people are standing at the 
crossing point.
    Georgia will either continue its stride to become part of a 
free whole of Europe or yet again become part of Russia's 
backyard as it was during the Soviet times. The choice of 
Georgian people is crystal clear. We are choosing freedom, 
democracy, rule of law, and see Georgia's future in the 
European Union and NATO.
    As I am speaking here now the Georgian people are taking to 
the streets of Tbilisi and other towns of Georgia to ensure the 
country's freedom and democracy. While the loud voice of 
Georgian people has been heard here in Washington, D.C., and in 
the capitals of the European Union it has not been heard by the 
ruling party Georgian Dream.
    Contrary to the will of the people the Georgian authorities 
are erecting the wall between Georgia and the West through 
adopting the law on transparency of foreign influence. The law 
will fully erase the critical voices and destroy the vibrant 
civil society that has been built in the country with the 
generous support of our friends and partners over the years 
including the U.S. Agency for International Development.
    The law goes against the U.S.-Georgia charter and strategic 
partnership that aims to bolster independent media, freedom of 
expression, and access to objective news and information. This 
law requires all organizations which receive more than 20 
percent of their funding from abroad to register as agents of 
foreign influence, and in cases they refuse the law envisages 
forced registration and crippling fines.
    The law applies not only to organizations but also to 
individuals. It would allow the state institutions to demand 
and access sensitive personal data of private citizens and 
seize their assets without due process.
    In less than five months Georgia will have crucial general 
elections. There is a high threat that these elections will 
take place without critical media, independent civil society, 
and local election observers. The law depicts civil society 
activists as traitors to the country and foreign agents and is 
being used by the ruling party to discredit the organizations 
and individuals that could otherwise help to preserve Georgia's 
democracy in October.
    Even before the formal implementation of the law, many 
peaceful protesters have already been facing state-promoted 
terror. Hundreds of peaceful protesters have been arrested and 
beaten up and civil society experts like myself face regular 
threats against our lives and our families. Graffitis and 
posters, which one is here as you can see, with terms such as 
"enemy of the nation" and "a foreign agent lives here" are 
appearing at the offices and private homes of pro-democracy 
activists.
    Unidentified assailants have ambushed thousands of 
activists with impunity. Despite hundreds of arrests of 
peaceful protesters there has not been a single case where the 
state authorities effectively investigated and held accountable 
officials for excessive use of force or their responsibility 
for assaulting protest participants.
    It is clear that these types of actions are fully condoned 
or even encouraged by the ruling party. I would remiss if I did 
not mention one of the key drivers behind the foreign agent law 
which is the richest man in Georgia, the oligarch Bidzina 
Ivanishvili. Mr. Ivanishvili, the founder and the leader of the 
Georgian Dream Party, in his recent speech on April 29 openly 
threatened civil society and any political opponents of the 
Georgian Dream with repressions.
    The ruling party is severely undermining Georgia's future 
through increasing hostility towards Western democratic values 
and capturing the state institutions such as judiciary, law 
enforcement, prosecutor's office, et cetera. All Georgian 
governments since the restoration of its independence in 1991 
have been pursuing membership in the European Union and NATO 
and closer ties with the United States.
    The ruling party is the only government that is going 
against the will of the people and now is seeking to oppress 
them for wanting a closer alignment with Western democrats. The 
overwhelming majority of the Georgian society says its future 
in Europe is without Western friends--with Western friends and 
with the United States. The history of Georgia shows that 
fighting for freedom is part of our life. We know that we are 
fighting for our ancestors and also for our future generations 
and hold no desire to lose it.
    We acknowledge that we are not alone in this fight. We see 
and appreciate that our Western friends and allies are standing 
with us. In this regard, we value the recently initiated bill 
entitled MEGOBARI Act and I sincerely hope that this 
legislation will be adopted and enacted soon.
    We are now in a race against time and every minute counts 
when it comes to stopping Georgia's turn away from democracy. 
The stakes are very high for Georgia, Georgian people, and for 
our friends. It would be a real missed opportunity if Western 
friends of Georgia do not act now.
    We appreciate always all statements and supporting words. 
At the same time, we need concrete steps that will stop the 
current Georgian government from moving the country into the 
Russian orbit. The Georgian government cannot be allowed to 
sabotage our hard-fought democracy without consequences.
    Let me take this opportunity again to express my genuine 
appreciation for organizing this very timely and important 
hearing and I will be happy to address your questions.
    Thanks for your invitation.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Mr. Chkhikvadze.
    We now proceed to Dr. Natalie Sabanadze.

 TESTIMONY OF NATALIE SABANADZE, SENIOR FELLOW, CHATHAM HOUSE, 
            AND FORMER GEORGIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE EU

    Ms. Sabanadze: Thank you, Chair, honorable members of the 
Commission.
    Being able to address you today is a rare privilege and a 
great responsibility, first, because I am deeply honored and, 
second because I hope to do justice to the courage of thousands 
of my countrymen who are out in the streets defending their 
rights, their liberty, and their European future.
    If Georgia still feels like a free country it is thanks to 
popular resistance to authoritarianism and the spirit of 
defiance that is vividly manifested today. Popular protest is 
an antidote to political apathy but more so it is a response to 
the blocked arteries of public institutions.
    When institutional channels for voicing dissent or 
achieving change are closed mass protest is the only available 
form of civil engagement. In response, Georgia's increasingly 
insecure ruling regime is reviving the Stalinist playbook and 
hunting treasonous agents inside and global enemies outside.
    Violence and intimidation rule the day and conciliation is 
not an offer. In today's Georgia democracy is being destroyed 
by the hands of parliamentary supermajority. At the instruction 
of one unaccountable man, the supermajority is reversing 
George's long-standing foreign policy priorities.
    It is destroying 30 years of gains, friendships, and 
partnerships that have sustained us since the end of Soviet 
rule. By adopting laws such as the one on transparency on 
foreign influence the ruling regime is subverting Georgia's 
long-standing dream to rejoin the European family of free 
nations while blatantly denying that it is doing anything of 
the sort.
    As if in an Orwellian dystopia Georgians are being told 
that friends are enemies who wish war and destruction on us 
while enemies who occupy parts of the country are no longer a 
threat. Georgia's rulers maintain that a law that contradicts 
the principles of democracy and human rights is good for us. 
They insist that it will only advance rather than derail 
Georgia's European integration despite endless pronouncements 
from European officials to the contrary.
    Having spoken to many international partners, and having 
read the Venice Commission's and OSCE's highly negative yet 
detailed assessment, Georgia's rulers insist that they have not 
heard a single valid argument against their new legislation in 
the runup to parliamentary elections this fall. In this 
dialogue [of the death ?], truth falls victim. Black is white 
and white is black. Transparency and accountability are 
transformed into means of arbitrary persecution. Calls by well-
meaning European partners for depolarization become 
justification for silencing opponents and stifling dissent.
    Ladies and gentlemen, at stake, is not just a law. The law 
is a symptom, not the cause, of the current political crisis, 
and Georgia is part of the trend, not an exception. Autocratic 
regimes from Russia to Venezuela are adopting such legislation 
to equip themselves with the legal instruments of repression to 
destroy civil society not only through imprisonment and 
violence but also through financial audits and technically 
lawful harassment.
    They are working to steal elections, not on the day of the 
vote with crude ballot stuffing but weeks and months in advance 
with elaborate systems of incentives and pressures. The methods 
set by autocracies are becoming more sophisticated, and more 
veiled in vocabularies of sovereignty and traditional values. 
Civic protest movements now tend to be described as color 
revolutions, the work of outsiders and of local traitors who 
are manipulated by foreign governments.
    These tactics aim at persuading people to stay out of 
politics and to trade their freedom for order, their rights for 
a chance to prosperity, and to accept the abuse of power for 
the sake of preserving the peace.
    The Georgian government has joined the anti-liberal anti-
Western revolt spearheaded by Russia. In its war on Ukraine 
Russia does not seek only to subjugate the Ukrainian nation and 
to reestablish its sphere of influence. It also seeks to de-
Westernize the global order. Ukraine is a major front while 
lesser ones have emerged in Georgia and elsewhere around the 
world.
    Recent policies of the Georgian government such as the 
foreign agents legislation, the handing over of critical 
infrastructure projects to the Chinese, the parroting of the 
Russian narrative about the decadent West, and the adherence to 
calls for de-dollarization of the global economy are all signs 
of this transformation.
    Make no mistake, in this battle, the Georgian people and 
its government stand on opposite sides. This is why the aptly 
named MEGOBARI Act is so important. Georgians must fight this 
fight for themselves as we have been doing.
    We need friends. Those who disregard our peaceful and 
democratic will and who deny us the future we want for our 
children need to bear the consequences. Georgia as a country 
deserves your continued support. Individuals who decided to 
turn us into Russia's grey zone for their shady business deals 
have to be punished.
    This is part of a global fight. If the world is to be 
divided by a new Iron Curtain once more then help us in our 
struggle not to end up on the wrong side again.
    Thank you.
    Chairman Wilson: Dr. Sabanadze, thank you so much.
    We now proceed to Ambassador William Courtney.

 TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM COURTNEY, [RET.], ADJUNCT SENIOR FELLOW, 
    RAND CORPORATION, AND FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO GEORGIA

    Mr. Courtney: Thank you, Chairman Wilson, Ranking Member 
Cohen.
    I am grateful for the opportunity to testify regarding--
[off mic]--and address the U.S. interests in Georgia, review 
U.S.--Georgian relations, and comment on implications.
    The United States has voiced strong support for the 
sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity of Georgia 
since its independence. The U.S. seeks to protect the interests 
of thousands of American citizens who live in or visit Georgia 
and the U.S. businesses and NGOs.
    The United States wants to continue cooperation to ensure 
that critical components of Russia's war on Ukraine do not pass 
through Georgia. Other law enforcement cooperation includes 
countering nuclear smuggling and terrorism.
    The United States supports independent Georgian NGOs that 
work to strengthen the country's democratic institutions, an 
open trading route through Georgia as a lifeline for Armenia. 
The United States is concerned about Russia's plans for a naval 
base in occupied Abkhazia.
    After the traumatic civil war in the early 1990s, President 
Eduard Shevardnadze managed to stabilize Georgia. The U.S. 
helped by providing large-scale humanitarian Food for Peace 
aid. Shevardnadze and his young allies made reforms but over 
time their momentum slowed.
    In 2003 unrest led to the Rose Revolution. Its leader, 
Mikheil Saakashvili, led a government that undertook anti-
corruption reforms and built state institutions. Some 30,000 
Georgian troops fought alongside U.S. forces in Iraq and 
Afghanistan.
    In 2005, President George W. Bush visited and declared 
Georgia a beacon of democracy--sorry, a beacon of liberty. In 
2008, Russian forces invaded. The U.S. provided one billion in 
aid to help Georgia rebuild.
    In the 2012 elections, the Georgian Dream coalition funded 
by Bidzina Ivanishvili, as you mentioned, defeated 
Saakashvili's party. In 2020, however, virtually all opposition 
parties boycotted parliament to protest against alleged 
election violations. Georgian Dream was angered by U.S. 
sanctions against officials engaging in illicit conduct.
    In recent years Georgian Dream has taken a more pro-Russian 
and anti-democratic course. A recent law could make Georgia a 
tax haven for dark money, as you mentioned. A foreign agent law 
modeled on the repressive Russian law has sparked the largest 
popular protests since independence.
    Georgian Dream may abuse the law to protect its hold on 
power. A new report by the German Marshall Fund foresees 
political violence around parliamentary elections in October. 
For nearly three decades a values-based partnership has been at 
the core of U.S.-Georgian relations. Now prospects are dimming.
    The U.S. has announced a more restrictive visa policy for 
those who suppress civil society. Relations will take a turn 
for the worse if Georgian Dream rigs the October elections. As 
in Russia, the government might deny access to independent 
election monitors; ban advertising in, quote, "foreign agent," 
end quote, media; and disqualify candidates.
    Georgian Dream could emulate Russia in other ways. It may 
ban organizations it deems as undesirable. Ivanishvili 
threatens that Saakashvili's party will strictly answer for all 
its crimes. This hints at show trials.
    Targeted sanctions might raise costs to Ivanishvili and 
Georgian Dream of further repressive measures. The United 
States could specify more individuals as specially designated 
nationals, blocking their assets and prohibiting Americans from 
dealing with them. Coordinated U.S. and European measures are 
best. The leverage of the EU has a special weight. Germany says 
the European Union will not start accession negotiations so 
long as the foreign agent law is in effect.
    Polls show that large majorities of Georgians back EU 
membership and see Russia as the greatest political threat. 
These encouraging views and three decades of democratic 
progress in Western ties will influence Georgia's future. Too, 
in a negative way will Russia's occupation of one-fifth of 
Georgia's territory.
    In closing, Georgians will not be denied their democratic 
and European futures and the West will not be deterred from 
helping them achieve these noble ambitions. Thank you.
    Chairman Wilson: Ambassador, thank you very much. We have 
been joined by Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut.
    Just as we begin now with questions, we will be limiting 
ourselves to five minutes each and then very likely we will 
also be joined by other members and, in fact, a superstar just 
walked in, Congresswoman Victoria Spartz, who was born in the 
USSR. She was actually born in Ukraine and now is a member of 
Congress in the United States from Indiana.
    With this in mind, the five minutes now begins with me so 
begin the five-minute clock. Here we go.
    I actually want to begin in a very positive way. I am 
grateful to be joined by one of my grandsons today, Houston 
Wilson. Our family appreciates the people of Georgia and that 
his dad served with Georgian troops in Iraq. His dad is a Navy 
orthopedic surgeon and I know that he always was so 
appreciative of the courageous Georgian troops. You could count 
on them to provide the best security. Then, again, I am 
grateful that Houston is here as an intern with U.S. Senator 
Tim Scott.
    As we begin, too--
    Representative Cohen: Would you like Houston to come sit 
behind you like Representative Rose's son? [Laughter.]
    Chairman Wilson: No, we are not doing that. See, I told you 
all what a troublemaker the ranking member is. It is just a--
no, hey, you have to see that. That was a--they do not allow 
this in the U.S. Senate, but in the House, we had a spectacle 
yesterday of a House member speaking with his son behind him 
who was actually communicating with his brother at home with 
different facial expressions that were somewhat distracting. 
Anyway, back to what we are doing, okay? [Laughter.]
    Hey, I had a wonderful visit to Tbilisi. The people are 
inspiring, how beautiful the countryside is, and then very 
humbling to Americans who see buildings hundreds and hundreds 
of years old and it just--the antiquities are such a reminder 
of what a great heritage the people of Georgia have and how it 
can be built upon.
    Then it was particularly interesting to me to be there with 
a joint parachute jump with--there were National Guard members 
from the state of Georgia who in a joint jump with troops from 
the nation of Georgia and as--when they landed and we were able 
to greet them and thank them for their service you had to look 
very carefully on the patch to see if it was the United States 
flag or the flag of the nation of Georgia because they--it was 
just really humbling to see how well--but it is part of 
something that is occurred and that is a friendship between the 
United States and Georgia.
    Mr. Chkhikvadze, a question I have for each of you and with 
the limited time, but what has America actually done to assist 
the people of Georgia over the years?
    Mr. Chkhikvadze: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    I think that you already provided some information at the 
beginning of our discussion, although support has been 
appreciated and provided by the United States, first and 
foremost, a lot has been done when it comes to the military 
support training and equipment of our military forces and also 
we do see and appreciate when it comes to the democratic 
support every--annually and every year.
    I think that this is something which is--as I mentioned at 
the beginning, which is something which is also at stake, and 
this support--I mean, the support to the people, to the 
Georgian society and Georgian country should be there. This is 
very much appreciated, very much supported, and very much 
welcomed.
    At the same time, as it was already repeated--my colleagues 
here--I think that those who are undermining the U.S.--Georgia 
partnership and also the future of Georgia towards the European 
Union they have to bear the responsibility.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you.
    Dr. Sabanadze?
    Ms. Sabanadze: Thank you.
    Well, basically, since the regaining of independence United 
States has been supporting Georgia on its path to 
democratization and to European and Euro-Atlantic integration. 
It was mentioned here that every single government, despite of 
its color, despite of its problems, ups and downs, there has 
been one constant in Georgian foreign policy and that has been 
a drive towards the West and that drive has been very much 
supported by you.
    It was mentioned also that in the very difficult years in 
the 1990s, humanitarian assistance helped thousands in Georgia 
to survive and then the U.S. assistance helped Georgia to 
consolidate as a state, to consolidate its institutions, and to 
help promote democracy and promote civil society.
    In fact, the reason why we have such a vibrant civil 
society is thanks to your assistance and assistance of our 
European partners, and when I said that what Putin is doing at 
the global scale, which is to de-Westernize the global order, 
these kind of laws the Georgian government is now adopting aim 
at de-Westernization of Georgia.
    That is why these things are connected. Thank you.
    Chairman Wilson: I am going to--we are going to have a 
second round so I will get with Ambassador Courtney at that 
time.
    Indeed, we are in a global conflict that you have 
identified as dictators with the rule of gun invading 
democracies with the rule of law. Sadly, it was somewhat begun 
in 2008 with the illegal annexation of South Ossetia and 
Abkhazia.
    We are now--we can talk about bicameral. Well, we are going 
to prove it right now in that we have House and Senate, we have 
Republicans--Democrats and Republicans--and so this is a unique 
Commission in that it is bicameral and bipartisan.
    Senator Blumenthal?

 STATEMENT OF RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, U.S. SENATE, FROM CONNECTICUT

    Senator Blumenthal: Thank you, Chairman Wilson, and thank 
you to our very distinguished witnesses today.
    This issue is of tremendous importance, I think, to the 
American people. We need to make them more aware of it and that 
is why I am grateful to the bipartisan leadership of the 
Helsinki Commission--Chairman Wilson, Representative Cohen, and 
the entire Commission--for focusing on Georgia.
    I was part of a letter with Senate colleagues written 
recently to the Georgian prime minister about the proposed 
foreign agent law that would force nongovernmental 
organizations and independent media that receive more than 20 
percent of their funding from foreign donors to register as 
foreign agents and I am deeply disappointed that this measure 
has been signed into law despite significant protests from the 
Georgian people.
    I think it is just one example of how autocratic 
subjugation of freedom and independence in those areas is 
languishing and I think it undermines our relationship with 
Georgia.
    I would like to hear from our witnesses how you assess how 
effective this new law has been in, in effect, discouraging or 
deterring or degrading the kinds of organizations that pose 
alternatives to the government.
    Maybe we begin with you, Mr. Ambassador.
    Mr. Courtney: Thank you, Senator.
    The law has just come into effect. The best way to assess 
how the Georgian Dream is likely to use it is to look at what 
happened in Russia. In 2012 Russia passed a foreign agent law 
and then started banning independent media, for example, from 
receiving commercial advertising. Used the law to disqualify 
candidates for election.
    Russia--Putin did not think that was enough so in 2015 
Russia passed an undesirable organization law. Russia has used 
the two of them together plus cynical means of implementing 
them basically to wipe out independent civil society in Russia.
    In Georgia, we may or may not be at the bottom. The 
downward spiral could continue if Georgia follows the path that 
Russia took after passing its foreign agent law.
    Senator Blumenthal: Thank you.
    Dr. Sabanadze?
    Ms. Sabanadze: Yes, I would agree with that. I think the 
law only recently has been enacted so it is a little bit early 
to see its effect. In fact, we can see the rhetoric that 
surrounded the adoption of this law. It had not been passed yet 
and yet the entire hierarchy of the ruling party was accusing 
basically everybody with a different opinion of being either a 
foreign agent or a traitor.
    It will and has unleashed a campaign of intimidation, which 
is extremely disconcerting. This law violates many principles 
of international law and the Georgian constitution but most 
importantly it stigmatizes organizations, media, and 
individuals for promoting Georgia's democratic, independent, 
and pro-European future and it stigmatizes them calling them 
foreign agents.
    It is an extremely difficult label to carry so a lot of 
organizations will simply shut down. The fines are 
disproportionate and they will impact gravely because this is 
not a very rich civil society. I mean, and it is actually very 
transparent all the funding. They will have to close down and, 
of course, it contradicts the principles of freedom of 
association and freedom of expression.
    It also has violated due process because the adoption of 
the law was rushed through. The third reading took a grand 
total of sixty-seven seconds and there has been no 
consultation, no public debate. In fact, we know what it caused 
and it simply added to polarization.
    I think the signs so far are pretty bad and we do fear that 
unless there is a very--a response there will be more crackdown 
on freedoms and individual rights.
    Senator Blumenthal: I do not know whether we have time for 
Mr. Chkhikvadze.
    Mr. Chkhikvadze: I will try to be short. I think that one 
of the biggest challenge here is discrimination and 
discreditation of those organizations which have been promoting 
democracy there. The Ministry of Justice is supposed to set up 
the list, the registry where all the organizations are supposed 
to register. Registration is something that civil society 
organizations, most of them, are not going to do because this 
is absolutely unlawful and unjustified.
    Then there will be the fines and there will be also the 
blocking of the accounts and this would be a big blow to the 
country's democracy. This is what we are facing and this is 
happening five months before the general elections in the 
country.
    Senator Blumenthal: Thank you. Thank you, Mr.--
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Senator.
    We now proceed to Ranking Member Steve Cohen of Tennessee.
    Representative Cohen: Thank you. Let me ask you--maybe we 
could start with Dr. Sabanadze. I asked the question earlier--
and I thought I knew the answer and we got a little help--that 
there is a great desire to be part of the European Union and 
NATO and go Western and I heard that from everybody.
    Yet, Ivanishvili does not necessarily agree with that. Am I 
not correct?
    Ms. Sabanadze: Well, the truth is that our government and 
Mr. Ivanishvili know very well that about 80 percent of the 
population support Georgia's membership in the European Union 
and a little bit less but it is above 70 percent support 
membership in the NATO.
    For any political force to come out and openly say that 
they are against it will be a political suicide. That is why we 
have this kind of dystopian situation where the government 
pursues policies that openly contradict European values and 
undermine our chances for European integration while at the 
same time saying that nothing has changed, and that EU and NATO 
remain Georgia's priorities.
    This is the problem. I do not think they want to do it. I 
do not think that they will take steps. There are nine 
suggestions there tabled for us to pursue and instead, we are 
adopting these Russian laws that do not serve Georgia's 
interest and definitely do not serve Georgia's European 
prospects. They maintain--
    Representative Cohen: Are you saying Ivanishvili does a 
good job of hiding his--
    Ms. Sabanadze: Yes. He is hiding behind the propaganda and 
very often he is positing the choice to the Georgian people 
between far away European integration prospects and peace, 
between prosperity now and protection of human rights. It is a 
devil's bargain and this is what he is offering, and it is 
really, really veiled with the propaganda, veiled in the 
language of sovereignty, in the language of traditional values. 
This is a Russian playbook, and we need to call his bluff.
    Representative Cohen: Let me ask you, and if you do not--
cannot help me one of the gentlemen might be able to help me. 
Tell me to the best of your knowledge what Saakashvili's 
condition is--his health, his prison term, the support he might 
have in the country.
    Ms. Sabanadze: His support, I think, is best measured by 
the support for his party, which is UNM. According to polls, it 
is something between 10 percent to 15 percent, which has been 
quite consistent. I think his health is improving. He is not in 
prison. He is in a hospital, and the latest judgment from the 
European Court of Human Rights has been that his conditions are 
decent.
    Representative Cohen: Does anybody have anything different? 
Different prognosis? Diagnosis? Treatment? Nothing?
    Ambassador Courtney, what years were you in Georgia? What 
years were you an ambassador?
    Mr. Courtney: I was there from 1995 to 1997. I was our 
second ambassador.
    Representative Cohen: Okay. Things have changed. I yield 
back the balance of my time.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congressman.
    We now proceed to Congresswoman Victoria Spartz of Indiana.

  STATEMENT OF VICTORIA SPARTZ, U.S. HOUSE, FROM RHODE ISLAND

    Representative Spartz: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I just kind of have a few questions to just follow up on 
what you mentioned. I think, Dr. Sabanadze, you mentioned it is 
a Russian playbook and the Russian playbook did not work in 
Russia very well. You know, a lot of people do not realize 
that, you know, really aggression--Russian aggressions pretty 
much started in 2008, you know, under Republican 
administration. Then continued under Democrat administrations, 
and it is continuous and, you know, they advance quite a bit.
    The lay of the land is not the best, and the West has been 
extremely, extremely weak in dealing with this situation. From 
your assessment, you know, just understanding the situation in 
Georgian politics--and I am not even--will try to claim my 
understanding on this issue--but what do you think the things 
need to happen and we--as Americans, we should do to really 
start dealing with this situation? Because it is escalating 
further and further, and it is not going to get better. From 
your perspective, what needs to happen with what we are doing 
or not doing related to Georgia right now?
    Ms. Sabanadze: Thank you. It is a million-dollar question 
and a difficult one to answer, of course. As you say it has a 
local Georgia dimension--American policy towards Georgia--and 
it also has a global dimension which is U.S. policy towards 
Russia because these two are interconnected.
    If Russia succeeds Georgia will turn into a gray zone, 
which I mentioned, and Russia will be able to benefit from the 
transit routes. Russia will be able to benefit from 
infrastructure. It does not have to invade again Georgia. It 
only needs to control it through local government.
    Georgia will be turning away from the West, and we see this 
happening already, the kind of multi-vectoring of Georgia's 
foreign policy, which has never been the case before --
rapprochement with Russia despite 2008 and despite the 
occupation of Georgian territories, strategic partnership with 
China, and so on and so forth.
    Russia's war against Ukraine has enabled autocrats around 
the world and leaders such as we have to challenge rules, 
challenge democracy at home, maximize power, and think that 
they can go unpunished. Here is the second part and that is to 
impose consequences for this because like Ukraine Georgia is 
also a battleground, and in Ukraine, you have--
    Representative Spartz: What--if you can give me some 
examples, you know, just kind of concrete things that you 
believe that we have mechanisms to start kind of you know--
[laughs]--be a little bit maybe tougher, maybe tougher on some 
of these issues. What consequences you think would be effective 
to say these governments need to decide which sides they are 
taking?
    Ms. Sabanadze: There are punitive measures such as 
sanctions that I think have to be targeted and individuals need 
to bear responsibility and these include visa bans. These 
include financial sanctions--you know, their inability to send 
their children to study in expensive universities here in this 
country. These affect individual lives and they are 
individually responsible.
    I think this should not affect support in general because, 
on the contrary, Georgia and Georgian civil society, and media, 
need greater support today, and I also believe that one policy 
choice would be to look at the election situation very closely 
and to think about the election observation in long term 
because, as I said, methods are getting sophisticated.
    It is not so obvious that you see--I mean, they may be but, 
you know, there is a long system of completely unraveling the 
political playing field in a way that basically elections 
become useless, that this is a foregone conclusion.
    There will be a competition because Georgians--there are 
parties, and they will be contested. This contestation will 
only give legitimacy but not provide for a real change. This is 
something that needs to be looked at.
    Representative Spartz: Right. Sanction some individuals 
particularly and then also, look at the election. This 
Commission has an observation function and I actually always 
think it is problematic that we do not look-- that they take--
do not take risk-based approach how we deal with elections and 
potential abuses, not, you know, a kind of one-time-fits-all 
approach. I think that is something that has to change because 
we are involved in that.
    You know, I think my time has expired. If we go again, I 
might ask Ambassador questions, but I think you brought--and 
the structural system, a lot of these former Soviet republics, 
you know, unfortunately, did not create a legislative 
framework. They did not have some, like, Founding Fathers, 
unfortunately--[laughs]--to really create a proper legal system 
of checks and balances. It allowed them to centralize power 
back so quickly and it, unfortunately, happened to most of 
them.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congresswoman
    Congresswoman Spartz has been a leader on behalf of fair 
and free elections around the world and so her interest is 
proven by her actions.
    Now, we will have a second round and the question that I 
had initially asked nobody can answer better now with the 
ambassador as to the benefits of the relationship between the 
nation of Georgia and the United States.
    Mr. Courtney: Thank you, sir.
    As I mentioned in my testimony and Dr. Sabanadze noted--
[off mic]--in the early years when people were hungry were 
coming out of a civil war. That was tens of millions of 
dollars, maybe over a hundred million dollars. That was quite 
substantial at the time and pretty important.
    Then also at the beginning we and our European allies 
worked together to try to promote civil society, democratic 
reforms, rule of law reforms, economic reforms, and that has 
been consistent all the way through.
    The U.S. has been particularly active on the security 
front. We had a Georgian training and equipment program for a 
number of years which helped Georgian forces in Afghanistan and 
Iraq fight and those were--they took on some of the toughest 
assignments in those wars.
    Then we developed a program to help Georgia with its 
territorial defense and that program has been more recent. That 
is the program that Georgia needs to deal with a potential 
Russian threat. We have played a quite substantial role in all 
the areas, especially security.
    Chairman Wilson: It is really humbling to know the 
assistance of food, on something as basic as that, at a time so 
important. Then, Dr. Sabanadze, I really am so grateful for you 
raising how a foreign agent law sounds so benign except for one 
thing. It has been a precursor of dictatorship--a precursor, 
sadly, in the Russian Federation.
    I have been to Russia a number of times. I thought they 
were going to be part of modern Western civilization--their 
art, their literature, their architecture that we have adopted. 
It did not occur to me that Putin would be successful in 
creating a dictatorship but that is, sadly, true. Then you 
flash forward to another country that at one time was one of 
the wealthiest in the Western Hemisphere. No longer, and that 
is Venezuela. Over and over again there is an example.
    It is a precursor to a dictatorship and--but doing away 
with the abilities of political advertising--it says foreign 
agent. Well, it is really not a foreign agent; it is domestic 
political activity.
    Again, explain step-by-step how a dictator--and, hey, I 
want to mention something. I try to call it dictatorships. 
People talk about authoritarians. They talk about autocrats. 
People do not understand that but something that really offends 
dictators is to be called dictators, and so the dictatorship of 
Putin, the dictatorship of Xi, Khamenei, we need to address 
this. How can we help the people of Georgia not experience a 
dictatorship?
    Ms. Sabanadze: Well, that is exactly what Georgians are 
fighting for right now. I think it is very important to 
understand how these new types of autocracies come around. We 
do not see tanks rolling through the streets anymore. Very 
often you see democratically-elected governments subverting 
democracy. Institutions that brought them to power they are 
busy destroying those institutions, and the freedom of 
expression, freedom of media, that they took advantage of, and 
the power which was out there to be contested they took 
advantage of this. They are destroying this through 
parliamentary supermajorities, for example, which is what 
happened in Georgia and is happening in many other parts of the 
world.
    This is a gradual process. It goes by the destruction of 
one institution after another. Sometimes it is called a reform. 
Sometimes it is just a change of leadership. It is--because it 
is gradual it is difficult to spot. It is not, as I said, a 
coup d'etat which you see and very easy to respond to.
    Elections, again, are something that are being stolen long 
before because you have such an uneven playing field that 
democracy does not function anymore and the political space for 
democratic contestation is no longer there.
    These are the kind of hybrid dictatorships, if you would 
like, who maintain at the same time a facade of democracy and 
maintain that they are democracies and like in our case they 
maintain that they want to pursue European and Euro-Atlantic 
integration even though everything they do goes against it.
    This is the kind of contradiction that we have to see and 
understand, and very often our methods are outdated --the 
methods of responding. Their methods have become more 
sophisticated but our democracy promotion methods, and election 
observation methods, are rather outdated so they do not really 
capture what is going on.
    The real help for Georgia is to empower these people and 
those who are out in the streets they need protection because 
if they are left and if Georgian society is left alone facing a 
regime that is increasingly insecure and as a result 
increasingly violent, I think there will be a lot of 
disappointment.
    Your assistance, this discussion, the MEGOBARI Act, and 
more legislation of this type would be a very important signal.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you so much. It is interesting to 
think of incrementalism as to dictatorships being established 
as opposed to a Bolshevik revolution or whatever that 
totalitarians come to power.
    We now proceed to Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee.
    Representative Cohen: I think I am going to pass.
    Chairman Wilson: I have never heard him this quiet. Anyway, 
this--but hey, I know we can count on pithy questions from my 
dear friend Congresswoman Victoria Spartz of Indiana.
    Representative Spartz: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ambassador, my first question is for you. I think you were 
an ambassador in the early--late 1990s, right, in Georgia, 
correct? Yes. I actually lived in the late 1990s, in fact, 
Ukraine at that time. My observation after the Soviet Union 
fell apart, you know, it was Wild West. The early 1990s were 
terrible.
    At the end of the 1990s, there were--some positive things 
were happening. There were some trends and building some 
democratic institutions. I do not think they have ever been 
built, you know, unfortunately. That is why it was so easy to 
really corrupt and erode them and not really have, you know, no 
democratic institutions and a lot of this is just appearance of 
that.
    From your perspective, you were involved, you know, in 
1995, 1997. That was very challenging times and very --and most 
of these Republicans at that time still were more pro-American, 
I would argue, because even Russia was not--you know, so what 
things went wrong and what things we did not do as a 
policymaker here?
    I was not American at that time. I came here in 2000. 
[Laughs.] You know, I have my observations. You have been 
actually a leader at that time reading foreign policy. What do 
you think we should have not done and maybe we should look back 
and make some adjustments now?
    Mr. Courtney: Let me make a comparison between Ukraine and 
Georgia. For a long time, Ukraine and Georgia seemed to be on 
pretty much a parallel path moving to the European Union, 
moving to a pro-Western future.
    Occasionally there were problems with stolen elections or 
leaders who wanted to turn the clock back so popular 
revolutions took place. The first one was the Rose Revolution 
in Georgia. Then a year or so later it was the Orange 
Revolution in Ukraine and then in 2014 a second popular 
revolution in Ukraine in the Maidan.
    What we see today is a vibrant democracy in Ukraine that 
has benefited from both of those popular revolutions which have 
been mid-course corrections in the democratic path, if you 
will. We see a democracy in Ukraine that is so strong that it 
is surviving even an all-out war with Russia.
    What happened to Georgia? Georgia had won but then Georgia 
had different traditions--you know, a less Western tradition, 
if you will, than Ukraine had and so it became easier for 
authoritarian-minded people to take Georgia away off the path. 
Crime and corruption were a bigger issue in some cases in 
Georgia.
    Now Georgia may be at another crossroads like Ukraine was 
in 2014. These elections are in October, if those elections are 
rigged in a major way then as in Ukraine there could be another 
color revolution in Georgia.
    We really should keep our eye on those elections. Now, the 
West can help. We fund independent election monitors. We 
criticize authoritarian moves. It is useful to understand that 
the West really is not a major player. We can help at the 
margins but it is what the people or the country do themselves.
    The Ukrainians built their democracy themselves with some 
Western support. Georgians are building their future as well.
    Representative Spartz: Right. I agree. Democracy can be 
only built, you know, from the ground up, but I would probably 
disagree with your definition of a vibrant democracy. We are 
not going to go there--in Ukraine, so we are not going to go 
there.
    A question for you, Mr. Chkhikvadze. I do not know if I 
said it right. You know, you are dealing with the EU a lot, and 
where is the position right now with the EU? Because in a lot 
of ways EU with all of this initiative has an opportunity, 
really, to help to reform some of these institutions and how--
and I have not seen them really doing much. You know, I will be 
honest with you. I was--you know, dealing with European I get, 
like--[laughs]--in the wake of dealing with them I do not know 
how I used to live there.
    You know, what is your perspective and assessment of what 
is really happening right now with--I understand you dealt with 
the EU, and what they are doing, and how helpful they are, 
maybe, to incentivize some of these countries to move in more 
democratic directions, including Georgia?
    Mr. Chkhikvadze: Thank you.
    I will just start with your previous question, if I may, 
when it comes to what the U.S. should do and when it comes to 
the support to Georgia.
    First and foremost, I think that you can help us in regards 
not to allowing the ruling party to rig the elections in 
October. This is extremely, extremely crucial.
    Secondly, I think that some of the proposals are already in 
the MEGOBARI Act but, first, we should start from the election 
observations and allow this to be free, fair, and competitive.
    Thirdly, it was already mentioned that one of the crucial 
supports which U.S. is providing to Georgia is its 
nonrecognition policy. As you know, the two parts of Georgia is 
occupied by Russia and there is an attempt by Russians to-- and 
then also others to recognize its independence, and the U.S. is 
very much backing us not to--to make sure that this does not 
happen. To continue that policy would be very valuable.
    Also, when it comes to security support this is also very 
important and, last but not least, civil society support. This 
is also, very important.
    Coming back to your question about the European Union, as 
you know, we are now in the process of accession and we are now 
in the--I mean, there is a proposal that Georgia has to 
implement the nine steps--nine recommendations--from the 
European Union side.
    Unfortunately, six months after it was proposed nothing has 
been done by the Georgian authorities. The ball is in our court 
now, and we have to deliver on very important issues and very 
important policy fields like the judiciary, fighting against 
elite corruption, et cetera, et cetera.
    We do not see that there is a political will there that is 
there in the case of our government. Unfortunately, there is 
not much progress in that regard. Otherwise, as we hear every 
time from the EU member states and the European Union in 
general, is that the door is open, and we have to deliver on 
that progress further on this road. Thank you.
    Representative Spartz: Yes. Thank you. Yield back.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congresswoman Spartz. 
She always proves her enthusiasm and so we can count on that.
    As we conclude, I also want to point out that I am the co-
chair of the EU Caucus and I have visited the European Union 
countries and, gosh, the economic benefit and opportunities 
that are provided are just--would be so wonderful for the 
people of Georgia.
    At this time we shall adjourn and I would like to invite 
the three witnesses to please come up front to get a picture 
with the members of the Commission who are here. With that, we 
are--and I want to thank the staff members who have helped make 
the Helsinki Commission so successful on behalf of the people 
of the United States.
    With that, we are adjourned. [Sounds gavel.]
    [Whereupon, at 3:20 p.m., the hearing ended.]

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