GOVERNMENT

Storage

Y , 

N 72/61

966

7410-,0c:o

NOMINATIOne

HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON

OR AND PUBLIC WELFARE

INITED STATES SENATE

a

_a EIGHTY-NINTH CONGRESS

rR

SECOND SESSION

ON

Y H. RUTTENBERG, OF MARYLAND, TO BE AN

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF LABOR

JUNE 2, 1066

Printed for the use of the

Committee on Labor and Public Welfare

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

65-251 WASHINGTON : 1966

•
;i

4" • •

•

• 't

COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE

LISTER HILL,

WAYNE MORSE, Oregon

RALPH YARBOROUGH, Texas

JOSEPH S. CLARK, Pennsylvania

JENNINGS RANDOLPH, West Virginia

HARRISON A. WILLIAMS, JR., New Jersey

CLAIBORNE PELL, Rhode Island

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts

GAYLORD NELSON, Wisconsin

ROBERT F. KENNEDY, New York

II

Alabama, Chairman

JACOB K. JAVITS, New York

WINSTON L. PROUTY, Vermont

PETER H. DOMINICK, Colorado

GEORGE MURPHY, California

PAUL J. FANNIN, Arizona

ROBERT P. GRIFFIN, Michigan

STEWART E. MCCLURE, Chief Clerk

JOHN S. FORSYTHE, General Counsel

ROBERT W. B kRCLAY, Professional Staff Member

STEPHEN KURZMAN, Minority Counsel
NOMINATION

THURSDAY, JUNE 2, 1966

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE,

Washington, D.C.

The committee met at 10 a.m.

'

pursuant to call, in room 4232, New

Senate Office Building, Senator Lister Hill (chairman of the committee) presiding.

Present: Senators Hill (presiding), Morse, Yarborough, Clark,

Randolph, Williams, Pell, Nelson, Javits, Prouty, Dominick, and

Fannin.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order.

Now if you will briefly tell us what your qualifications are for

Assistant Secretary of Labor for Manpower.

STATEMENT OF STANLEY H. RUTTENBERG, ACCOMPANIED BY

WILLARD W. WIRTZ, SECRETARY OF LABOR

Mr. WIRTZ. I would be grateful to explain there are four Assistant

Secretaryships in the Department of Labor. One of those was

previously Assistant Secretary for Policy Development and we

decided that should be Assistant Secretary for Manpower. I have

come to respect his leadership of the manpower program. The

President recommended the appointment of Stanley Ruttenberg and

I would like to add my endorsement of him after 3 years of association

with him.

MT. RUTTENBERG. I don't suppose there is very much I can add

to the biography which you have before you and which has been

distributed to the members of the committee. I think the background and record of my past experience is clear to the committee.

For 25 years, I have been a professional working within the labor

movements, starting as an organizer and then associate director of

research for that organization and then later as director of the Economic Policy Committee and Director of the Department of Education and Research of the CIO. After that, I was appointed director

of research of the newly merged AFL—CIO. In January of 1963

I came over to the Department of Labor at Secretary Wirtz' suggestion

to become Special Assistant to the Secretary for Economic Affairs.

I served in that capacity for 2 years.

In January 1965, I was appointed Manpower Administrator of the

Department of Labor and have been serving in that capacity for the

past 15 months. As Manpower Administrator I have the responsibility for overseeing, directing, supervising, reviewing, and evaluating

the performances of the Bureau of Employment Security—which includes U.S. Employment Service and the Unemployment Insurance

Service—the Bureau of Apprenticeship and Training, the Neighborhood Youth Corps, as well as the Office of Financial Management and

Service, and the Office of Manpower Policy, Evaluation, and Research.

1
2 NOMINATION

If I an confirmed as Assistant Secretary of Labor I will be doing

much the same job. I shall do everything in my power to implement

the manpower programs under the jurisdiction of the Department of

Labor without fear or favor, in the spirit of hope and fairness to all

and with commonsense. I will be happy to answer any questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Would any member like to ask any questions?

Senator JAVITS. Mr. Chairman, I have a question.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, sir.

Senator JAVITS. You wrote us a letter, a week or so ago, in response

to an inquiry about using the Manpower Training and Development

Act to train sewing machine operators. You stated that the act did

not give you authority for that training. This has been a longstanding argument with certain unions which have been adamant—

the unions happen to be good friends of mine—against using the act

for training in their industry.

Incidentally, I am all for your nomination; this won't cause me to

be against you. But I have rather a feeling that the attitude is one of

a closed corporation, and I don't think it ought to be contributed to

by the United States. Therefore, I would appreciate knowing from

you whether your instruction is that the law prevents any such courses

under the Manpower Training and Development Act or whether this

is the policy of the Department. If it is the policy of the Department,

why hold to it so strictly? Why not give the Department the opportunity to say, in an appropriate case, there is no employer-sponsored

training activity that will do the job, and we, therefore, are free to do

it under the act?

I just want to hold a little bit of doubt over their heads. It is too

much of a closed corporation.

Mr. RUTTENBERG. I think the letter to you made clear the Department's position. When the 1965 amendments were debated in the

House and Senate, there was an exchange between Senators

McNamara and Clark on the Senate side and Congressmen O'Hara

and Holland with respect to this subject.

There is nothing in the act to prevent the training of people for the

garment industries and needle trade industries. We have taken the

exchange on the floor of the Senate and House and the fact there was

no objection during the course of the exchange as a bases for rejecting

such training.

As far as legislative history is concerned, I believe our policy is

correct.

Senator CLARK. That is correct, I remember that.

Senator JAVITS. Except that there was a feeling that those in lower

skill categories, the sewing machine operators should generally be

trained by the industry but those in higher skill categories in the

industry patternmakers and cutters and so forth, conceivably could

be trained under MDTA , training in these higher skills has not been

customarily undertaken by the industry.

The unions are all personal friends; I have worked with them for

years. But there is so much of the aspect of a closed operation, I

just felt we should not hold the policy that tight and the intent of

Congress was not to hold it that tight.

Senator CLARK. If I may interrupt, the reason we didn't put it in

the act was to give maximum flexibility.
NOMINATION 3

Senator JAVITS. May I suggest that you undertake to make an

inquiry into this matter and, if necessary, talk with Senators Yarborough and Clark and our House colleagues. Look into the practical

situation, bearing in mind what I have stated, and see whether you

can then give us some definitive statement of policy by the Department

of Labor which will deal more adequately with the situation.

MT. RUTTENBERG. I Will be glad to do that. I just want to make

one comment quickly. We have in various parts of the country

approved sewing machine operator programs—there have not been

very many, but there have been a few and we can give you a list of

them if you like.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions?

Senator PELL. To clarify my own thinking, will the Neighborhood

Youth Corps administration remain under with your supervision?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes. -

Senator PELL. And will it continue to report to you?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Right.

Senator PELL. Will there be a greater development of liaison with

the 0E0? Does Mr. Howard work directly with Mr. Shriver's

office or through you and then to Shriver's office?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. The Director of 0E0 has delegated this authority to the Secretary of Labor. In that capacity, Jack Howard reports

through the Department of Labor to the Director of 0E0.

Senator PELL. The Secretary directs through you to Mr.

Howard?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. That is right.

Senator DOMINICK. Could you tell me, Mr. Ruttenberg, how many

of the 0E0 programs are being administered by the Labor Department?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Just one. The Neighborhood Youth Corps.

Senator DOMINICK. Does work training come under the Labor

Department?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Work training, sir, is the legal language for the

Neighborhood Youth Corps. That is title 1—b.

Senator DOMINICK. The Job Corps?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. No, that is operated solely and exclusively by

the Office of Economic Opportunity. We have a contract with the

Job Corps to provide the selection and referral of males to the Job

Corps and have arrangements for using the U.S: Employment Service

to place those individuals who complete their training.

We don't, however, administer the program. We only handle the

selection and placement of Job Corps people.

Senator DOMINICK. Who in the Labor Department then chooses

those who are going to go to the Job Corps?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. This is determined jointly by the Office of

Economic Opportunity and the Secretary of Labor. There are joint

regulations on this. Employment Service Offices, some 2,000 around

the United States, using the procedure and those regulations

'

select

individuals fitting the criteria. Those names then are referred to the

Job Corps. The Job Corps makes the final decision on which of these

individuals shall be selected and enrolled.
4 NOMINATION

Senator DOMINICK. Perhaps I am being somewhat obtuse on this

but let me see if I can put it in a step-by-step method. First of all,

it is my understanding that Mr. Shriver, as Director or whoever he

delegated it to in his organization, plus the Secretary of Labor and

his delegate, determine the rules or regulations by which young people

will be recruited for the Job Corps.

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes.

Senator DOMINICK. Who establishes the policies by which the Job

Corps camps will be run?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Sargent Shriver's office, the Office of Economic

Opportunity.

Senator DOMINICK. So that the Labor Department as such chooses

the men, I gather, not the women?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. The women are selected through a private

nonprofit organization called "Wicks."

Senator DOMINICK. They choose the men to go into camps but the

Labor Department has no control over the policies of running those

camps?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. None whatsoever. That is right.

Senator DOMINICK. Then when the young men graduate, if they

do, from the Job Corps camps, they are put back under the Labor

Department for placement?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. In the main, that is true. There are certain

placement activities carried on by the Job Corps with large nationwide corporations. In the main, however, after the individual completes his Job Corps training, he comes back to the U.S. Employment

Service which attempts to place him in a job.

Senator DOMINICK. So the Labor Department, who recruits the

young men for training, had no control over the way their training is

directed?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. That is right. We operate only as contractor

for the Job Corps to select, refer, and place.

Senator DOMINICK. Yet the Secretary of Labor does have a part

in determining the criteria by which these young men will be chosen?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes, this is done jointly by the Director of 0E0

and the Secretary of Labor.

Senator DOMINICK. Assuming the Job Corps was transferred to

the Labor Department, I am talking of the administration of the

camps and the training programs conducted, how much additional

work would that impose on the Labor Department?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. I am afraid that this is a rather "iffy" question.

I think it would be better if I did not respond to it at this point. We

have not considered that as a possibility. We have not really reviewed

the problem and have assumed that the Job Corps will continue in the

Office of Economic Opportunity and be administered there.

Senator DOMINICK. You, as head of Manpower, Administrator and

Assistant Secretary of Labor, would have jurisdiction in the event

this would come over to the Labor Department?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes, I assume so, if that ever happened. The

Job Corps being a Manpower program would be a part of the Manpower Administration. No one in the Department of Labor is making

any such suggestion.

Senator DOMINICK. How many so-called graduates are there now?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. 5,090 as of June 1, 1966.
NOMINATION 5

Senator DOMINICK. What success have you had in placing graduates

of the Job Corps camps in jobs?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Of these 5,090 graduates, 1,266 are known by

Job Corps to be currently employed. An additional 588 were inducted into the Armed Forces, and 263 returned to school. It is

highly probable that these data understate actual accomplishment.

We understand that Job Corps is currently compiling data concerning the characteristics of and the outcomes for their graduates.

The Bureau of Employment Security is initiating a report which will

indicate services provided by the Employment Service to Job Corps

graduates and dropouts. These two developments will make it possible to provide more definitive data than are currently available.

Senator PROUTY. I would like to have that and also of that 4,000,

if that is a correct figure—

MT. RUTTENBERG. I think I am low.

Senator PROUTY. How many of these are actually in productive

jobs at the present time?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. I will be glad to give you a report on that.

Senator DOMINICK. If you could help us, I would like to get a copy

of that report and I would like to know how long those who have been

placed were in the Job Corps camps?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. The average young person spends 9 months in

the camp. This is based on the total group of Job Corpsmen.

Senator DOMINICK. This would be very helpful.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions?

Senator YARBOROUGH. I have noted the biographical sketch

and 

Senator DOMINICK. Excuse me, I have not finished.

Did I understand, Mr. Ruttenberg, that the Labor Department

was also administering the work training programs?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. There is always a confusion of terminology,

vis-a-vis work training programs, Senator Dominick. In the Economic

Opportunity Act, work training is title 1—b. Work training has come

to be publicly identified as the Neighborhood Youth Corps. If you

are thinking of work experience, that is title 5 of the Economic Opportunity Act.

Senator DOMINICK. That is the work-study program?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Work-study is title 1—c which is college students

and that is administered by the Department of Health, Education,

and Welfare.

Senator DOMINICK. That was transferred to HEW last year.

Title 5 is VISTA?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. No, it is the work and training of ADC. The

training for work of unemployed parents of dependent children—this

is delegated by 0E0 to the Public Assistance Office of HEW.

Senator DOMINICK. Work training of the Neighborhood Youth

Corps, is this a community action program?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. NO; it is not a community action program.

But the Neighborhood Youth Corps programs in any city where there is

a community action agency works closely with the community action

agencies.

Senator DOMINICK. What responsibility does the Labor Department have in the Neighborhood Youth Corps?
6 NOMINATION

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Fll11 and complete responsibility for the administration of the program. The determination or allocation of the

amount of funds is determined by the Director of 0E0.

Senator DOMINICK. So that the 0E0 has control of the funds and

you have control of the program?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. That is right, sir, except that once the funds are

allocated, then we have control of the funds. Once the decision is

made as to how much of the fiscal year program will be assigned to

the Neighborhood Youth Corps, that money is then allocated to the

Department of Labor and from that point we have control.

Senator DOMINICK. Does 0E0 have authority to change the allocation during the course of a year?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes, they have that authority. As a matter of

fact, during the course of this fiscal year, they have increased on two

different occasions, the amount of the allocation to the Department of

Labor for the Neighborhood Youth Corps.

Senator DOMINICK. And in like manner could decrease it?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. I assume in like manner they could.

Senator DOMINICK. So in effect whatever programs you determine

are advisable for the Neighborhood Youth Corps are subject to the

discretion of the 0E0 on the allocation of funds?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Once the funds are allocated the approval of

the projects and the allocation of funds to the contractors for the

projects rests solely and exclusively with the Department of Labor.

It is only the original allocation of funds that is in question.

Senator DOMINICK. I thought you said they retained jurisdiction to

change the funds?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. No, only the original allocation.

You would have to make this determination in advance. It

couldn't be done during the course of the quarter very easily.

Senator DOMINICK. Well, if you were doing the administration of

the program and determination what programs should be put into

effect, would there be any harm in also applying the funds to be distributed if Congress should determine this, to put this in the hands

of the Labor Department as well?

Wouldn't this make for more efficient determination?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. I think that is an "iffy" question on which it

would be better if I didn't answer.

Senator DOMINICK. I am trying to get your philosophy on this.

After all, the Department of Labor has been given the authority and

responsibility of running these. It would strike me it might be

advisable to put the control of the funds in the same hands of the group

that are administering.

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Generally speaking, Senator Dominick, there

have not been any kind of a problem between the Department of Labor

and 0E0 which would lead us to conclude it would be wise policy to

transfer the original control of the funds.

Senator DOMINICK. I yield to Senator Prouty.

Senator PROUTY. You mentioned earlier roughly there are 4,000

graduates 

Mr. RUTTENBERG. We want to check that figure. It is about

4,000 I am told by people from 0E0.

Senator PROUTY. What I would like to have done, without placing

an impossible burden on any of you, I wonder if we could take those

4,000—I care nothing about their names—go right down the list—
NOMINATION 7

determine what their educational backgrounds were before they

entered the corps—what they had been doing prior to joining the

corps—how long they were there—the type of training they were

given in the camps—where they are employed now—for how long

and what they are doing.

That is a large assignment, I admit, but that is one way to find

out how effective this has been over the years.

Mr. RUTTENBERG. The only data available concerning educational

and vocational backgrounds of Job Corpsmen relate to the total group.

These data indicate that 69 percent of corpsmen dropped out of school

before reaching the 10th grade, 13 percent dropped out of school while

in the 10th grade, and 11.1 percent dropped out of school after completing the 10th grade but prior to graduation. Only 6.9 percent are

high school graduates.

About 56 percent of Job Corpsmen had had previous employment in

entry level unskilled jobs. The average wage for all corpsmen who

worked at all before entry into the Job Corps was $0.43 per hour.

Job Corps training includes work-experience programs teaching the

youth to work with and for people. The training also includes skill

training in occupations for which there is a current or anticipated

demand. The skill training ranges from maintenance occupations,

such as landscaping and custodial work, to relatively high-level

skilled occupations, such as auto repairman, television and radio

repairman, office machine repairman, clerical and secretarial and data

processing occupations.

Senator CLARK. Will the Senator yield?

Senator PROUTY. Yes.

Senator CLARK. I hope in due course we can assume the amendments to 0E0 will be the subject of hearings before the Subcommittee

on Manpower Employment and Poverty. It seems we could discuss

these matters there better than here.

Senator PROUTY. That may be true, but I thought it could be

brought up so that they could get the report and have it available for

those hearings.

MT. RUTTENBERG. We will do that, Senator.

Senator DOMINICK. Is it my understanding that the Neighborhood

Youth Corps and Job Corps are the only two 0E0 programs that the

Department of Labor is connected with?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. We are connected with the Job Corps only to

that extent discussed earlier. We do jointly work with the community

action agencies in jointly funding projects in local communities.

For example, the manpower component of a community action program may have been funded under the Manpower Training and Development Act while the rest of the community action projects will

be funded by the Office of Economic Opportunity.

We could cite examples where this has occurred in the District of

Columbia. There has been joint funding of the community action

agency. There has been joint funding in many areas around the United

States. For example, neighborhood centers that are established under

the community action agency frequently have in them an Employment

Service Counselor, out-stationed from the employment office in the

neighborhood community action stations. We work closely with them

in this kind of situation.
8 NOMINATION

Senator DOMINICK. Well, there are three programs then that you

are dealing with, Job Corps, Neighborhood Youth Corps and the

community action programs?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. I think also we would say that we work closely

with them and the Office of Education in title 2—b of the Economic

Opportunity Act, which is adult education. There the program is

delegated by 0E0 to the Office of Education and we work closely in

joint funding of skill and occupational training projects.

Senator DOMINICK. You say you work closely. You don't have

any primary responsibility by way of funding administration,

recruitment administration, any connection in that?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. No, not in connection with title 2—b.

Senator DOMINICK. Do you have a coordination committee that

meets with the 0E0 regularly?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes, we have a working committee that meets

once a week that discusses joint programs of the community action

agencies to tie in various aspects of the manpower development and

training program or various aspects of our youth opportunity centers.

We have three people in the Manpower Administration whose sole

job it is to be in continuous daily liaison with various offices of the

Office of Economic Opportunity. We have a very close working

relationship with them.

Senator DOMINICK. Thank you. That is all for the moment.

Senator FANNIN. I would like to ask Mr. Ruttenberg a few

questions.

What programs do you have that would place special emphasis on

the employment of Indians or Indian training?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. We have through the Manpower Development

and Training Act funded training programs on Indian reservations.

Senator FANNIN. Are you in favor of expanding those programs?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. As a matter of fact, we have ongoing discussions with the Bureau of Indian Affairs this week.

Senator FANNIN. We know there has been special emphasis on the

other areas and I am concerned with the employment of the Indians

and training of our Indian citizens. Why hasn't greater emphasis

been placed on these programs? Theirs is the greatest unemployment

in the United States.

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Greater is always a question of relevance. We

have placed a fair amount of emphasis on training on Indian reservations. We have looked upon the proper use of manpower training

and development funds, and programs in different areas to take care

of disadvantaged citizens as well as on Indian reservations.

Senator FANNIN. You have not made the same effort as you have

with other citizens. I speak very frankly, as far as the colored people

are concerned, you place a far greater emphasis than on our Mexican

Americans or our Indian people. Still, we have greater unemployment, better than 50 percent unemployment on the Indian reservations and I can't understand why you would neglect these areas and

concentrate on other areas where the need is not nearly as great.

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Just this week we have been dealing with the

Bureau of Indian Affairs of the Department of Interior and discussing

how we could better utilize Manpower Development and Training Act

training funds on Indian reservations and we are trying to step up

the program now.
NOMINATION 9

Senator FANNIN. You say trying to step up the program. Would

you state it is your desire to expand these programs?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. It is our desire to expand the programs and

•we hope to do that, but by what extent is another problem.

Senator FANNIN. I am speaking of you personally.

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes, we are 

Senator FANNIN. No, you?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes, I am, that is why I say—I use "we"

.editorially—I personally.

Senator FANNIN. You hope they will be expanded?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes.

Senator FANNIN. To what extent?

Mr. RUITENBERG. Dollar amounts remain to be seen. It is a

question of looking at the areas more carefully and determining the

kind of programs needed. After all, one must keep in mind that the

law places upon us the responsibility of training with a reasonable expectation of employment. We have to take that into consideration

•with the establishment of a training program. There are efforts now

being made to bring in industrial establishments into Indian reservations. I gather there is some on-going effort in other agencies and we

would cooperate with them to see that Indians can fill those jobs.

Senator FANNIN. What about Mexican American?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. We have devoted substantial time and funds to

the problem of our Mexican American citizens.

Senator FANNIN. You, of course, realize, Mexican Americans are

concerned and have indicated in the last few weeks their disappointment with what has been done and have asked for a hearing with the

President in this regard. Are you familiar with what is happening in

that instance?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes, we have dealt and are dealing with

Mexican American organizations nationally. Our responsibility, as

far as the Department of Labor and the manpower programs, relates

to what we can do under the Manpower Development and Training

Act and the effort we can put in the local employment service offices

to help in the testing, placement, and referral of Mexican American

citizens.

In addition, we have placed Neighborhood Youth Corps programs

in Mexican American communities, I think in those areas where we have

direct responsibility we have done a fairly good job. We will continue

to do all that we can in this area.

Senator FANNIN. You do have flexibility in what is going to be

done and I have been very disappointed with the extent of the assistance given to Indians and the extent of assistance to Mexican Americans. This, of course, is evident with the great dissatisfaction being

expressed by the Mexican Americans and is continually expressed by.

our Indian citizens. I trust you do feel there is a great need for concentration in this particular area?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. I certainly do.

Senator FANNIN. No further questions.

Senator DOMINICK. I have one.

It is my understanding that last January, the Job Corps announced

that the issuance of dropout figures from the Job Corps camps would

be restricted to once every 3 months. Was this from the Labor

Department or 0E0 policy?

MT. RUTTENBERG. I am not familiar with that.
10 NOMINATION

Senator DOMINICK. Would you in your organization have a list of

those who have dropped out of the Job Corps camps?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. And effort is made to try to—there the employment services offices can help to follow up on people who drop out of

the camps, yes.

Senator DOMINICK. You would have that information?

MT. RUTTENBERG. Yes.

Senator DOMINICK. In terms of numbers and what camps they

dropped out of?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. We do not have this information. It would.

be available in the Office of Economic Opportunity.

Senator DOMINICK. Would the Labor Department have the

information?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. We have arrangements with the Job Corps to

notify us whenever there are dropouts. We try to follow up when

they return to their local community and find them employment.

Senator DOMINICK. The reason I ask, according to your testimony

you take part in trying to establish the criteria for selecting those who

go to camps and take responsibility when they graduate. It seems

to me the Labor Department would have responsibility to determine

those they picked under this criteria who had not made it and why.

Is it correct you do not have that information?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. The extent to which someone drops out of a

Job Corps camp 500 miles away from where he was selected and

returns to his home, we would follow up. But if he goes some place

else we would not be able to follow him and provide services.

Senator DOMINICK. You don't get reports from the camps?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Yes, we get these reports in the local employment offices.

Senator DOMINICK. How much effort would it be for you to give

me the Labor Department's information on how many people will

have dropped out of Job Corps camps, is this going to be difficult for

you? I can get it from 0E0 but as long as you are responsible for the

criteria, at least in part, you should be able to get it.

Mr. RUTTENBERG. I will be glad to give you the information. The

responsibility is largely with the Job Corps where the information

would be more quickly and readily available.

Senator DOMINICK. If you could give me what information you

have, this would be very helpful.

MT. RUTTENBERG. We will do that.

Senator DOMINICK. That is all I have.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions, gentlemen?

If not, I have a statement from Senator Brewster from Maine—

I'm sorry—we had a Senator Brewster from Maine.

Senator MORSE. You have been here a long time, haven't you?

The CHAIRMAN. This is from Senator Brewster of Maryland who

said he has known Mr. Ruttenberg for some years and he wholeheartedly endorses his nomination to this high post in Government.

Anything further you want to add, Secretary Wirtz?

Mr. WIRTZ. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. We thank you for your presence here.

Without objection, we will put this statement in the record.

(The statement of Senator Brewster follows:)
1

NOMINATION 11

STATEMENT BY HON. DANIEL B. BREWSTER, A U.S. SENATOR

FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND

Senator BREWSTER. Mr. Chairman, On April 13, 1966, President

Johnson submitted to this Chamber his nomination of an able public

servant and a distinguished citizen of the Free State of Maryland,

Stanley H. Ruttenberg, to be the Assistant Secretary of Labor for

Manpower.

Stanley H. Ruttenberg was born in St. Paul, Minn., on March 19,

1917. He attended public schools in Nemacolin, Pa., high school at

Massanutten Military Academy in Woodstock, Va., and college at the

University of Pittsburgh. He received his B.S. degree in 1937.

He married Gertrude Bernstein on November 28, 1940. They

have three children, Joel, a recent graduate of Hamlin College in

St. Paul, Minn.; Ruth Ann, a freshman at the University of Wisconsin;

and Charles who lives at home and is a junior high school student in

the Montgomery County public schools.

After graduating from college in 1937, Stanley Ruttenberg entered

the labor movement as a field representative and organizer for the

CIO in the Ohio Valley.

In 1938, he was appointed assistant to the director of Hull House

in Chicago, Ill.

From 1939 to 1948, except for 1943-46 when he was in the Army, he

was associate director of research for the Congress of Industrial

Organizations.

In 1948, he was appointed director of the Department of Education

and Research of the CIO. and served in that post until the merger of

the American Federation of Labor and the Congress of Industrial

Organizations in December of 1955. At that time, he was appointed

director of research of the newly merged AFL—CIO, and served in that

post until January 1963.

From January 1963 to January 1965, Mr. Ruttenberg was Special

Assistant to the Secretary of Labor for Economic Affairs.

In January 1965, he was appointed Manpower Administrator of the

Department of Labor . . . and is presently serving in that capacity.

Through the years, he has participated in a number of additional

public activities. He has been:

Member of the Ford Foundation-sponsored Commission on Money

and Credit, 1958-61.

Member of the President's Committee to Appraise Employment

and Unemployment Statistics, 1961-62.

Member of the Advisory Committee to the Import-Export Bank.

Member of the board of directors, Resources for the Future, Inc.,

1952 to present.

Member of the board of directors of the National Bureau of Economic Research, 1940-41, 1948-62.

Public adviser to the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade

Negotiations, Geneva, 1956 and 1958.

Observer, Meeting of the Inter-American Economic and Social

Council, Punta del Este, Uruguay, 1961.

He is a member of the American Economic Association, the American Statistical Association, and the Industrial Relations Research

Association.
•

12 NOMINATION

I have known Stan Ruttenberg for some years now and have always

thought of him as a very capable, hard working, dedicated fellow

American.

I am happy to have this opportunity to enter this brief statement on

the record, and to tell you that I heartily endorse his nomination to

this high post of government.

(The answers to questions by members of the subcommittee

follow:)

ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS RAISED BY SENATE COMMITTEE MEMBERS AT

MR. STANLEY H. RUTTENBERG'S CONFIRMATION HEARING

Following are the areas of information requested from Mr. Ruttenberg by

Senate committee members at his recent confirmation hearing.

1. Question relating to policy with respect to training power sewing machine operators—MDTA

At the inception of the MDTA program, some training was authorized for

sewing machine operators. The stated intention of the statute, however, is to

qualify for employment those persons who could not reasonably be expected to

secure full-time employment without training. Under the terms of the law and

its legislative history, the Congress made it clear that funds should not be provided

for training in situations involving:

a. highly mobile, highly competitive industries where minimal employee

training is needed,

b. those industries in which the employer has traditionally provided the

necessary instruction,

c. industries with a substantial number of experienced and able workers

who are presently unemployed,

d. a competitive advantage to one employer over another if Federal financial assistance for training purposes were provided,

e. an effect of adding to industrial dislocation and merely transferring

unemployment from one area to another.

The garment and apparel industry was specifically cited as an industry having

such characteristics and one which should not be covered by the Manpower

Development and Training Act. (See statements by Senators McNamara and

Clark in Senate Debates, December 13, 1963, 109 Congressional Record, No. 205,

pp. 23341-2, and Mr. O'Hara of the House of Representatives, Congressional

Record, December 12, 1963, pp. 24258-61).

This position was confirmed in the House of Representatives' report No. 170,

89th Congress, 1st Session (page 22). However, as a result of the statements by

Senator Clark on the floor of the Senate on April 9, 1965, and Congressman O'Hara

on the floor of the House on April 13, 1965, our policy was revised to permit training for technical and skilled occupations, such as repair, adjustment, maintaining

and rebuilding machinery, whether in the garment industry or in any other industry, for which prior training or the possession of specific skills has traditionally

been a prerequisite for employment.

2. Questions relating to Job Corps

(These data were supplied by the Job Corps.)

a. Number of Job Corps Graduates.—The number of Job Corps graduates as of

June 1, 1966, was 5,090.

b. Characteristics of Job Corps Graduates.—The only data available concerning

educational and vocational backgrounds of Job Corpsmen relate to the total

group.* These data indicate that 69 percent of corpsmen dropped out of school

before reaching the 10th grade, 13 percent dropped out of school while in the

10th grade, and 11.1 percent dropped out of school after completing the 10th

grade but prior to graduation. Only 6.9 percent are high school graduates.

c. Experience Prior to Joining the Corps.—About 56 percent of Job Corpsmen

have had previous employment in entry level unskilled jobs. The average wage

for all corpsmen who worked at all before entry into the Job Corps was $.43 per

hour.

d. Length of Time in Job Corps.—The average young person spends 9 months

in the Job Corps camp.

* Available data with respect to items c, d, and e also relate to the total group of Yob Corpsmen.
1

NOMINATION 13

e. Type of Training Given in the Corps.—Job Corps training includes workexperience programs teaching the youth to work with and for people. The training also includes skill training in occupations for which there is a current or

anticipated demand. The skill training ranges from maintenance occupations,

such as landscaping and custodial work, to relatively high-level skilled occupations, such as auto repairman, television and radio repairman, office machine

repairman, clerical and secretarial and data processing occupations.

f. Placement of Job Corps Graduates.—Of the Job Corps graduates, 1,266 are

known by Job Corps to be currently employed. An additional 588 were inducted

into the Armed Forces, and 263 returned to school. It is highly probable that

these data understate actual accomplishment. Efforts to serve the remaining

graduates are continuing.

We understand that Job Corps is currently compiling data concerning the

characteristics of and the outcomes for their graduates. BES is initiating a report which will indicate services provided by the Employment Service to Job

Corps graduates and dropouts. These two developments will make it possible

to provide more definitive data than are currently available.
%