GOVERNMENT

Storage

Y

L 11/2-

N T215/

963-2.

it•

•

NOMINATIONSvi.

HEARING

BEFORE A

COMMITTEE ON

)R AND PUBLIC WELFARE

NITED STATES SENATE

EIGHTY-EIGHTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

ON

DE J. HAWORTH, TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL

SCIENCE FOUNDATION, AND ARNOLD ORDMAN, TO BE GENERAL COUNSEL, NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD

MAY 9, 1963

Printed for the use of the

Committee on Labor and Public Welfare

17.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

98573 WASHINGTON : 1963
COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE

LISTER HILL, Alabama, Chairman

PAT McNAMARA, Michigan

WAYNE MORSE, Oregon

RALPH YARBOROUGH, Texas

JOSEPH S. CLARK, Pennsylvania

JENNINGS RANDOLPH, West Virginia

HARRISON A. WILLIAMS, JR., New Jersey

QUENTIN N. BURDICK, North Dakota

CLAIBORNE PELL, Rhode Island

EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts

II

BARRY GOLDWATER, Arizona

JACOB K. JAVITS, New York

WINSTON L. PROUTY, Vermont

JOHN G. TOWER, Texas

LEN B. JORDAN, Idaho

STEWART E. MCCLTJRE, Chief Clerk

JOHN S. FORSYTHE, General Counsel

MICHAEL BERNSTEIN, Minority Counsel

•

,

• • • tr.* II

A
CONTENTS

CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Page

Haworth, Leland J., member, Atomic Energy Commission 1

Seaborg, Glenn T., Chairman, Atomic Energy Commission 2

Waterman, Alan T., Director, National Science Foundation 2

Brewster, Hon. Daniel B., a U.S. Senator from the State of Maryland__ _ 5

Ordman, Arnold, Chief Counsel, Chairman, National Labor Relations

Board 6

STATEMENTS

Brewster, Hon. Daniel B., a U.S. Senator from the State of Maryland_ ___ 5

Haworth, Leland J., member, Atomic Energy Commission 1

Biographical sketch 5

Ordman, Arnold, Chief Counsel, Chairman, National Labor Relations

Board 6

Biographical sketch 8

Seaborg, Glenn T., Chairman, Atomic Energy Commission 2

Waterman, Alan T., Director, National Science Foundation 2
•
NOMINATIONS

THURSDAY, MAY 9, 1963

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10:10 a.m., pursuant to notice, in room 4232,

New Senate Office Building, Senator Lister Hill (chairman of the,

committee) presiding.

Present: Senators Hill (presiding), McNamara, Yarborough, Clark,

Randolph, Burdick, Pell, Kennedy, Javits, Prouty, and Jordan.

Also present: Senator Daniel Brewster, of Maryland.

Committee staff members present: Stewart E. McClure, chief clerk;

John Forsythe, general counsel; Michael Bernstein, minority counsel;

and Raymond D. Hurley, associate minority counsel.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will kindly come to order.

We have before us the nomination of Dr. Leland J. Haworth, of

New York, to be the Director of the National Science Foundation.

Dr. Haworth, will you come forward, please, sir.

Just have a seat there, anywhere.

We will be glad to have you gentlemen come up and join him, if

you will, Dr. Seaborg and Dr. Waterman.

Dr. Haworth, we would be very happy to have you make any statement you see fit as to your past experience, qualifications, that you

feel you have for this position to which you have been nominated.

STATEMENT OF LELAND J. HAWORTH, MEMBER, ATOMIC ENERGY

COMMISSION

Mr. HAWORTH. Well, Mr. Chairman, I am a physicist whose experience has been in universities, in a national laboratory, and recently with the Atomic Energy Commission.

I think, picking up the most pertinent experience, starting in 1947,

I was the assistant director of projects of the Brookhaven National

Laboratory which is one of the principal laboratories of the Atomic

Energy Commission, the Director of that Laboratory from 1948 until

1961 when I was appointed as a member of the Atomic Energy Commission, on which I have served during the last 2 years.

My interests, of course, have been primarily in physics over most

of the period, but in recent years, with the directorship of the Laboratory and membership on the Commission, I have had much wider

interests.

I don't know that I have anything in particular to say about qualifications other than experience.

I certainly feel very flattered to be nominated for this position. I

only hope that I can carry on the very fine work that Dr. Waterman

has done as Director of the Foundation.

1
2 NOMINATIONS

Senator JAVITS. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator?

Senator JAVITS. Mr. Haworth is a very distinguished New Yorker

with a very distinguished record, and I would certainly commend him

very highly to the committee for confirmation.

The CHAIRMAN. Good.

Dr. Seaborg, anything you would like to add as Chairman of the

Atomic Energy Commission? We will be happy to have anything

you might wish to say.

STATEMENT OF GLENN T. SEABORG, CHAIRMAN, ATOMIC ENERGY

COMMISSION

Mr. SEABORG. I would just like to say that I appreciate the

opportunity of being with you this morning to tell you bow fortunate

I feel you are, and we are, and the whole country is in having Dr.

Haworth for this position. I can tell you that we in the Atomic

Energy Commission are very reluctant to lose him, but we recognize

that our loss is the National Science Foundation's gain and the

country's gain.

I have known Dr. Haworth for about 15 years, and I can commend

him to you as an outstanding scientist, a scientist's scientist, an able

administrator, and an outstanding individual in every way, and I

am sure that he will do an outstanding job in his new position.

I believe that's all that I care to say, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, sir.

We have with us also, Dr. Waterman, who has been the head of

the National Science Foundation since its beginning, the Director of

the Foundation, and I want to say this on the record, what I said to

Dr. Waterman himself a few minutes ago:

I was on this committee at the time we submitted and favorably

reported and the Senate passed and the Congress passed the National

Science Foundation Act. He has certainly developed the work of

the Foundation, and has gone forward, and he has done a job there

as Director that has carried out what I might say were the dreams of

those who authored and worked on that act in this committee.

You have certainly done a beautiful piece of work as Director,

Doctor.

Anything you would like to say, sir?

STATEMENT OF ALAN T. WATERMAN, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL

SCIENCE FOUNDATION

Mr. WATERMAN. Thank you very much, Senator Hill. I appreciate that.

I do want to add my endorsement and my feeling of personal satisfaction and that of the National Science Board in Dr. Haworth's

nomination. I have known Dr. Haworth personally for upward of

20 years, and I can speak with some authority. Everyone who has

known him has great confidence in his ability in dealing with research

and matters connected with research and education.

The positions he has held in universities and with the national

laboratories, and now with the Government in the Atomic Energy
NOMINATIONS 8

Commission, have given him an ideal background for undertaking

this job, and I personally am very pleased about it.

May I add, Mr. Chairman, that, looking back over my tenure with

the National Science Foundation, I want to express my very grateful

appreciation for the support you an your committee have given the Foundation at all stages. We have all felt that you have had a fine

understanding of our problems, and have given us the backing in

critical moments that has been very important to us.

The CHAIRMAN. It has certainly been a pleasure working with you,

Doctor.

My good friend and former chairman of this committee, Doctor—

Senator Elbert Thomas—and he was a doctor, too, I believe—of

Utah, was one who really dreamed up this idea of the National

Science Foundation, and gave so much of his devotion and his labors

and his vision to bringing the Foundation into being. And I am.

sure that if he were on this earth today he would agree with everything I have said about you, sir, your work and your leadership.

Any questions, gentlemen?

Senator CLARK. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Clark.

Senator CLARK. Mr. Haworth, I have nothing but the highest

regard for you and your qualifications, and I don't have the slightest

doubt I can support your confirmation.

I imagine that you and Mr. Waterman agree that one of the critical

unsolved problems with scientific overtones is the enormous population explosion all over the world. I wonder if you could tell us in

very general terms what your views are as to the proper role of the

National Science Foundation in investigating ways and means of

achieving- workable programs for population control?

Mr. HAWORTH. Senator Clark, this is not a subject that I have

given any particular thought to since being nominated for this position.

It seems to me that the role—and this is a sort of off-the-cuff opinion—

that the role of the Science Foundation in this is the same as it is in

most areas; namely, that it should encourage and support research

and other activities that lead to an understanding of the problem;

that it is not the role of the Foundation to take steps with respect to

solving the problem.

Senator CLARK. Is it your view, sir, that the result of your research

should be available to those who want it?

Mr. HAWORTH. In my opinion, the results of all basic research

should be available to all people, everywhere.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions?

Senator YARBOROUGH. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Yarborough.

Senator YARBOROUGH. Dr. Haworth, I serve on the Commerce

Committee as well as this committee, and Senator Magnuson is

chairman of that committee. We have been very much concerned

over the years with the lag in the research and science in oceanography. We have tried to get substantial appropriations, and finally

got a little stripped-down bill through at the last session. And it

isn't exactly oceanography, but another. And I will come down to

earth now in comparison to the previous question.

Senator CLARK. I think my question was very much on earth.

That's the trouble. It is too earthy.
4 NOMINATIONS

Senator YARBOROUGH. We will go a little bit below it then.

I am referring to the contract let for exploration through the

earth's crust. It has been under attack. It seems that every time

the Government lets a contract for some new scientific advance

people attempt to attack it and slow it down and destroy it.

I think research would be very much impeded if every time the

Government lets a contract we slow up and fail to move forward to

make the scientific research necessary.

I hope that when you are confirmed that you will look into that

and lend your scientific knowledge—not your authority but your

scientific knowledge—toward expediting the research despite these

efforts to delay and obstruct the new exploration.

Mr. HAWORTH. Thank you. I shall.

Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Randolph.

Senator RANDOLPH. Mr. Haworth, I shall express the hope—and

I am certain that it is not necessary to express it, but I want the

record to indicate—that the impact of automation is a matter of

concern to not only Members of the Congress but to our constituents

generally. A State like West Virginia, where frankly unemployment

is at twice the rate of the national level, finds itself largely in this

condition because of advances in technology as applied to the production of bituminous coal.

There are other reasons, but this has been a basic reason for not

only our high rate of unemployment, now at more than 12 percent,

but also to the loss of population in our State, approximating 7Y2

percent during 1950-60, and that out-migration continuing in 1961

and into 1962.

I indicate again that there are other reasons besides automation,

but certainly the technological developments, the use of laborsaving

devices, the facilities for the lines of production with manpower lessened, causes, I think, a problem of depth and scope which is alarming,

and I ask you only for the record, do you share the feeling that I

express of not only finding the facts within the National Science

Foundation, within the areas in which you labor, but also attempting

properly to dramatize this situation to the American people?

I think that is an important outgrowth of what you shall do.

Mr. HAWORTH. Well, Senator Randolph, the role, as I see it—and

my answer is very similar to part of my answer to Senator Clark—the

role of the Science Foundation, as I see it, in the technical area as

distinguished from the educational area, is to encourage and support

research of a basic nature that enables us to understand nature, to

predict things that we can do in the practical sense, in the scientific

sense, even in the cultural sense, and to make that knowledge available

freely and openly to the people of this country and other countries so

that they can use it in wise ways.

According to my understanding of the role of the Foundation, it

does not particularly cover the question of encouraging or directing

the application of the knowledge as much as it does the developing of

the knowledge and the making of it available.

So I suppose my answer is, in a sense, that your question, the sort

of thing you are talking about is, in a sense, sort of beyond the boundary of the role of the Foundation.

Senator RANDOLPH. Thank you, Mr. Haworth.
NOMINATIONS 5

• Mr. HAwoRTH. That would be my understanding.

• The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions, gentlemen?

If not, we certainly want to thank you gentlemen very, very much

for being with us this morning.

Thank you, Dr. Seaborg. Thank you, Dr. Haworth. Thank you,

Dr. Waterman. We are delighted to have had you.

• (The biographical sketch of Mr. Haworth follows:)

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF LELAND JOHN HAWORTH

Member of Atomic Energy Commission. Born, Flint, Mich., July 11, 1904.

Son of Paul Leland and Martha (Ackerman) II. A.B., Indiana University,

1925; A.M. 1926; D. Sc., 1961; Ph. D., University Wisconsin, 1931; D. Sc.,

Bucknell University, 1961; England D. Stevens Institute Technology, 1961.

Married Barbara Mottier, July 2, 1927 (deceased 1961); children, Barbara Jane

(Mrs. John Paglia) and John Paul. High school teacher, Indianapolis, 1926-28;

instructor physics, University of Wisconsin, 1930-37; Lalor F., physical chemistry,

Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1937-38; associate physics. University

Illinois, 1938-39, assistant professor physics, 1939-44, professor physics, 1944-

47; staff member Massachusetts Institute of Technology, 1941-46, group leader,

1942-43, division head, 1943-46; assistant director projects Brookhaven National

Laboratory, 1947-48; Director 1948-61; member U.S. AEC, 1961-66; vice

president Associated Universities, Inc., 1951-60, president 1960-61; member

U.S. Atomic Energy Commission 1961— . Recipient certificate of merit from

President. U.S. member American Institute of Physics, American Nuclear

Society (director 1955-60, president 1957-58), American Physical Society, Phi

Beta Kappa, Sigma Xi, Gamma Alpha. Lambda Chi Alpha. Club: Cosmos.

Author numerous articles for professional science journals, also several chapters

of Radiation Laboratory Technical Series. Home: Cliff Road, Belle Terre,

Port Jefferson, Long Island, N.Y. Office: Atomic Energy Commission, Washington 25, D.C.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, Senator Brewster, would you come forward,

please, sir, and bring Mr. Ordman with you?

STATEMENT OF HON. DANIEL B. BREWSTER, A U.S. SENATOR

FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND

Senator BREWSTER. Thank you, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Brewster, we have now before us the nomination of Mr. Arnold Ordman, of Maryland, to be General Counsel

for the National Labor Relations Board for a term of 4 years.

Senator, we are very happy to have you with us this morning, and

would be glad to have you make any statements you see fit on this

nomination.

Senator BREWSTER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and

members of the committee.

As the chairman has stated, Mr. Arnold Ordman, who sits here

beside me, a resident of Wheaton, Md., has been nominated by the

President for the post of General Counsel of the National Labor Relations Board.

As you will note from the biographical sketch that has been filed

with the committee, Mr. Ordman is 51 years old, was born in New

Hampshire and educated in Massachusetts.

At Boston University he was elected to the Phi Beta Kappa Society,

and received his bachelor of arts degree in 1933. Following that, he

attended the Harvard Law School, and graduated from Harvard in

1936, and was admitted to the bar of Massachusetts in the same year.
6 NOMINATIONS

After his graduation he participated in the private practice of the

law until 1943, when he went into the U.S. Navy, served as an officer

in both the Atlantic and the Pacific.

On his honorable separation from the U.S. Navy, he began his

Government career, when he was appointed as an attorney under the

General Counsel of the National Labor Relations Board in 1946.

Since that time he has had varied legal experience with the National

Labor Relations Board, including a tour of duty in the quasi-judicial

post of hearing examiner, and, finally, a brief period as Chief Counsel

to the Chairman of the NLRB.

His Government career covers 17 years of service with the NLRB,

of which 13 years have been spent in assignments under the Office of

the General Counsel. In these various assignments Mr. Ordman has

demonstrated that he is an attorney of considerable ability and one

who has a wide and thorough knowledge of labor law.

I am happy to present him to this committee, and recommend that

this committee confirm his nomination.

• Mr. Chairman thank you very much for letting me appear. And

Mr. Ordman is here beside me.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Ordman, we would be happy to have you

make a statement now, sir, as to your qualifications for the position.

Is there anything you would like to add to what Senator Brewster

said?

STATEMENT OF ARNOLD ORDMAN, CHIEF COUNSEL, CHAIRMAN,

NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD

Mr. ORDMAN. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I

consider it both an honor and a privilege to appear before you this

morning in regard to my nomination by the President of the United

States to the office of General Counsel of the National Labor Relations

Board.

A brief biographical sketch has been submitted to the committee,

and, if appropriate, I ask that it be included in the record of this

hearing.

The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, we will place that in the record

immediately following your remarks, Mr. Ordman.

Mr. ORDMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I think I can probably be most helpful to this committee by not

recapitulating the facts that are already in my biographical statement

and that Senator Brewster has been kind enough to make in my

behalf. I would like to say only that this nomination caps some 17

years of service which I have devoted to this agency and to the

Government, and, if confirmed by the U.S. Senate, I pledge myself

to exert every effort to carry out the will of Congress as expressed in

the National Labor Relations Act.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will be very happy to answer any

questions that you, Mr. Chairman, and the members of the committee

may have.

• The CHAIRMAN. Any questions, gentlemen?

Senator PROUTY. Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Prouty.

Senator PROUTY. First may I say, Mr. Ordman, that your New

England antecedents commend you to me.
NOMINATIONS 7

I think Senator Javits asked you a question earlier, and it had

something to do with discrimination.

Mr. ORDMAN. That is correct. Senator Javits asked me in the

event he was not present to answer a question, and the question as he

framed it, as nearly as I took it down, was:

"What is your attitude toward the National Labor Relations Board

taking action against racial discrimination by unions as an unfair

labor practice?"

The Board has already expressed itself to some extent in this regard.

It has indicated—and I share that view fully—that racial discrimination by unions is as reprehensible as racial discrimination in any other

phase of our American life, and, to the extent that the National Labor

Relations Act permits of remedial action being taken in that regard

in unfair labor practice proceedings, I pledge myself to carry out that

action fully.

Senator PROUTY. To what extent does the National Labor Relations Act permit you to take such steps?

Mr. ORDMAN. This is a question, in fairness, on which the Board

itself is divided. A majority of the Board has suggested in the

Miranda Fuel case, which did not involve precisely a question of racial

discrimination but involved a question of discrimination by unions,

that the Board has authority to act against such discrimination.

The courts will have to finally resolve that question, but I believe

that it is imperative that that problem be clarified, and I shall do

everything in my power to see that it is clarified.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions?

Senator YARBOROUGH. MT. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator Yarborough.

Senator YARBOROUGH. A New Englander, a Phi Beta Kappa,

Harvard Law School, U.S. Navy, U.S. Government employee for 17

years. You couldn't have missed.

Mr. ORDMAN. Thank you, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. Senator, was that a question or was that an

observation?

Senator YARBOROUGH. I was complimenting the man for having

one of the most perfect sheets of credentials I have ever seen in my life.

The CHAIRMAN. Any further questions or observations, gentlemen?

If not, Senator Brewster, we certainly want to thank you for your

appearance here this morning, and want to thank you, too, Mr.

Ordman.

Mr. ORDMAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
8 NOMINATIONS

(The biographical sketch of Mr. Ordman follows:)

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF ARNOLD ORDMAN, WHEATON, MD.

Born: Somersworth, N.H., on February 16, 1912.

Parents: Rev. Maurice J. Ordman and Anna Pierce Ordman.

Family: Wife Evelyn R. Ordman; sons, Edward Thorne, 18, Kenyon College;

Alfred Bram, 14,Belt Junior High School.

Education: Elementary and high school education in Peabody, Mass. Undergraduate education, Boston University, bachelor of arts, 1933, Phi Beta Kappa.

Legal education, Harvard Law School., bachelor of laws, 1936.

1937-42: Private practice of law in Salem, Mass.

1942-45: Service in the U.S. Navy as signal officer on U.S.S. New York in the

Atlantic and Pacific theaters.

1946-59: Attorney for the National Labor Relations Board in the Office of the

General Counsel.

1959-61: Trial examiner for the National Labor Relations Board.

1961 to date: Chief Counsel to the Chairman of the National Labor Relations

Board.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you very much.

The committee will now go into executive session.

(Whereupon, at 10:30 a.m., the committee proceeded into executive

session.)