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GOVER NMENT

Storage H E A R I N G

BE FORE TH E

COMMITTEE ON

INT ERIOR AND INSU LAR AEEA IRS 

UNITE D STATES SENATE

NIN ET IE TH CONGRESS

SE CO ND SE SS IO N

ON

T II E NOM IN ATI ON OF JO H N F. O’LE ARY TO 

BE D IR EC TO R OF T H E BUR EA U OF M IN ES

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OC TO BE R 9, 1968

P ri n te d fo r th e us e of th e 

Com m itt ee o n In te ri o r and In su la r Affai rs

21-478

U.S . GOVER NM ENT PR INTING OFFIC E

WA SHING TO N : 196 8
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COM M IT TE E ON IN T ER IO R AN D IN SU LA R A FFA IR S

H E N R Y M. JACK SON, Washington, Chairman

CL IN TO N P. AN DE RS ON , New Mexico

ALA N BI BL E, Nevada

FR ANK C HU RC H, Idaho

ERNEST GRUEN IN G, Alaska

FR ANK E . MOSS, Ut ah

QU EN TI N N. BURDIC K, No rth D ako ta

CA RL H AY DE N, Arizona

GE OR GE McG OVE RN, South Da kot a

GA YL OR D NE LSON , Wisconsin

LE E ME TC AL F, Montana

J erry T . Verk ler, Staff Director

Stewart F rench, Chief Counsel

E. Lewis Reid, Minority Counsel

THOMAS II. KUCIIEL , California 

GO RD ON AL LO TT , Colorado 

LEN B. JO RD AN , Idaho 

PA UL J. FA NNIN , Arizona 

CL IF FO RD P. HA NS EN , Wyoming 

MA RK O. H ATFI ELD, Oregon

( I I )
NOMINATION OF JO HN F. O’LEARY TO BE DIR ECTOR 

OF TH E BUREAU OF MINES

W E D N E SD A Y , OCT OB ER 9, 19 68

U.S. Senate,

Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs,

Washington, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to call, at 2 p.m., in room 3110, 

New Senate Office Building, Senator Clinton P. Anderson presiding.

Present: Senators Clinton P. Anderson (New Mexico), Frank E. 

Moss (Utah), Carl Hayden (Arizona), Thomas H. Kucliel (California), and Paul J. Fannin (Arizona). Also present: Jerry T. Verkler, staff director; Stewart French, chief 

counsel; James H. Gamble, professional staff member; and E. Lewis 

Reid, minority counsel.

Senator Anderson. This is an open, public hearing by the Senate 

Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs on the nomination by 

President Johnson of John F. O’Leary to be Director of the Bureau of 

Mines.

The biographical sketch of this distinguished public servant has 

been printed in the Congressional Record. But, without objection, I 

will direct tha t it be made a part of this hearing as well.

(The document referred to follows:)

J ohn F. O’Leary

Born Jun e 23, 1926, Reno, Nevada. Educa ted in public schools in Nevada and California. Gradu ated from Cen tral High School in Washington, D.C. Entered U.S. Army 1945—discharged with rating of Corporal in 1946. Received A.B. degree in economics from George Washington University, Washington, D.C., in 1950. Continued gra duate work in economics pa rt time 1950-53. Joined staff of the B ureau of Mines in 1950. In 1952, became member of staff of Division of Minerals and Fuels, Office of the Secretary of the Interio r, as Specialist in Minerals and Metals. In 1953, became staff member of Office of the Assistan t Secretary— Mineral Resources, serving as Specialist in Minerals and Fuels Eco­ nomics. In 1959, app oin ted Staff Assistant to the Assistant Secretary—Mineral Resources in the cap acity of senior adviser on mineral and fuel programs of the 

De partm ent of the Interio r. Appointed Special Assistant to the Assistant Secretary —Mineral Resources in June 1962, and appointed Deputy Assistant Secretary —M ineral Resources in March 1963. In th at position, assisted in supervision of programs conducted by the Bureau of Mines, U.S. Geological Survey, and five other offices in the De­ pa rtm en t of the Interio r, and served as a principa l adviser to the Secretary of the Interior on domestic and inte rnational fuels and minerals matters. On term ination of employmen t with Interior— to join FPC—was awarded the 

De partm ent’s distinguished service award. Appointed to presen t p osition of Chief, Bureau of N atural Gas, Federal Power Commission, Marc h 20, 1967. Position involves responsibility for staff work re­ lated to processing of applica tion s for certificates of public convenience and neces­ sity for construction and operation of in tersta te pipelines and for providing staff
2

work necessary to establish ment of rates for sales for resale of natural gas in 

intersta te commerce, including sales by producers to pipelines.

A more detailed r€sum6 of work experience is attach ed.

Chie f, Bureau of Natural Gas, Federal Power Commission

(GS-18, $27,055-828,000)

March 20, 1967, to Present.— Duties include development of capability within 

the Bureau of Na tur al Gas for analysis of complex regu latory issues relating to 

public uti lity rates and service of the producing and transmission industries. 

Position involves direction of activities of highly specialized experts in various 

fields of n atural gas regulation. In add itio n to program deve lopment and supervisory activities, incumbent serves as principal adviser and con sultant to the 

Federal Power Commission with respec t to natural gas matters, including their 

relationship to the alternativ e energy resources and to the nation al economy.

Deputy Assistant Secretary, Mineral Resources, U.S. Department of

the I nterior (GS-17, $18,000-$25,080)

June 1962 to March 1967.—Served as Deputy Assistant Secretary— Mineral 

Resources in discharging duties of th e Secretary w ith respect to the development 

and utilization of minerals and fuels, including Defense Minerals activities, and 

assisted in exercise of Secre tarial dire ction and supervision over the Bureau of 

Mines, Geological Survey, Office of Minerals and Solid Fuels, Office of Oil and 

Gas, Oil Im port Administration, and Office of Coal Research. In this position, 

took sub sta ntive responsibility for form ulation and implementa tion of programs 

related to international petroleum relationships of the U.S., Federal oil shale 

development, oil import controls, Outer Con tine ntal Shelf leasing policy, coal 

export policy, formulation of Ene rgy R & D programs within the Dep artm ent, 

and related m atte rs.

Staff Assistant to Assistant Secretary, Mineral Resources, U.S. Department of the I nterior (GS-15/16, $11,355-813,750)

May 1960 to June 1962.— Advised and assisted the Assistan t Secretary for 

Mineral Resources in formulation of policies and supervision of activities under 

his direction. Responsible especially for staff studies and recom mendations regarding petroleum and fuel programs und er the Dep artm ent, and for programs 

relating to domestic minerals.

Staff Analyst, Office of Assistant Secretary, Mineral Resources, U.S. 

Department of the I nterior (GS-13, 89,890)

May 1959 to May 1960.—Served as staff economist of the Office of the Assistant 

Secretary for Mineral Resources with responsibility for economic studies of all 

phases of minerals and fuels work of the Dep artm ent.

Business Economist, Office of Assistant Secretary, Miner al Resources, 

U.S. Department of the I nterior (GS-9/12, $5,060-88,570)

June 1953 to May 1959.—Par ticipation in and contribution to formulation of 

plans for special studies and investigations. Performed independent research 

to be used in development, coordination and review of the mineral resource programs of the Departmen t. Work involved organization, analysis and in terpre tation 

of complex and detailed data relating to production, costs, mark eting , distribu tion 

and consumption, both domestic and foreign, of products of the minerals and 

metals producing and processing industries.

Research Assistant, Office of Miner als and F uels, Office of the Secretary, U.S. Department of the I nterior (GS-7, $4,205)

June 1952 to June 1953.—Assignments included the performance of economic 

research for use of Staff Specialists in the development of programs of the Department; drafting reports summarizing availa ble inform ation a nd comm enting on its 

significance; analysis of statistical reports , and related activities.
3

J u n io r M a na g em en t As sis t a n t, U.S. B u r ea u o f M in e s , D e p a r t m e n t o f

t h e I n t e r io r (GS-6/7, $3,450-$4,205)

June 1951 lo Ju ne 195 2.— As an in te rn in th e D epart m ent’s th ir d M an ag em en t 

T ra in in g Pr og ra m , rece iv ed a vari ety of as sign m en ts w he re by a kn ow led ge of th e 

im pact up on the civilian e co no m y of th e D epart m ent’s p ro gr am s co uld be o ut line d.

C om m odi ty I ndust ry An a l y st, U.S. B u r ea u of M in e s , D e p a r t m e n t of t h e

I n t e r io r (GS-5, $3,100)

J u ly 1 950 to Ju ne 195 1.— W or k includ ed res po ns ib ility fo r e co no mic p ha ses of an 

ex ha us tive st udy of th e zin c in dust ry , pre pa re d by U.S. B ure au of Mines, fo r th e 

N at io nal S ec ur ity Re source s B oa rd . In ad di tion, fa m ilia ri ty w ith ap pl ic at io n of a 

vari ety of econom ic te ch ni qu es was ga ined th ro ugh se ve ra l m on th s sp ent in 

B ure au’s Ba se M et al s Branc h.

Senator Anderson. On behalf of the committee I welcome Mr. 

O’Leary and assure him of our interest in his selection and the highly 

important services he is called upon to render. Adequate supplies of 

minerals are basic to our security and economic development, and the 

Director of the Bureau of Mines has a primary responsibility to insure 

tha t supplies of minerals are available to us.

I should state tha t I am acting as chairman in the absence of Senator 

Jackson, who is necessarily out of the city.

The Honorable Kenneth Holum, Assistant Secretary of the Interior, 

is with us today to introduce Mr. O’Leary.

Mr. Secretary.

STATEMENT OF KENNETH HOLUM. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF THE 

INTERIOR

Mr. Holum. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

I have an unusual privilege this afternoon tha t I know would not 

have fallen my way except for the fact tha t Secretary Udall and my 

colleague, Assistant Secretary Moore, are out of the city. So it is my 

privilege to come before you this afternoon to introduce to you, although 1 know he needs no introduction, Jack O’Leary, the President’s 

nominee to be the Director of the Bureau of Mines.

I know th at Secretary Udall would have been here if he had been in 

the city. I know tha t lie would have expressed to you his particular 

satisfaction, because he has expressed it so often in the Department 

tha t the Bureau employees of our Department have an opportunity 

to assume new and higher responsibilities.

Speaking personally, I have, of course, known Jack O’Leary for the 

8 years that I have been with the Department, as a special assistant 

to the Assistant Secretary for Mines and Minerals and then as Dep uty 

Assistant Secretary. We lost Mr. O’Leary to the Federal Power Commission, where he has been the Director of the Bureau of Natu ral 

Gas. We look forward very much to having him back in the De partment in this important position of responsibility as Director of the 

Bureau of Mines.

I am sure tha t he is here and available to supply any information 

or answer any questions th at the committee might require of him.

I would just like to say on Secretary Udall’s behalf that we appreciate 

very much the very prompt scheduling of this hearing this afternoon. 

We hope, of course, tha t it leads to early and favorable action.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
4

Senator Anderson. Mr. O’Leary, we have about four pages here of 

material. Have you seen this?

STATEMENT OF JOHN F. O’LEARY

Mr. O’Leary. Yes; I have.

Senator Anderson. It is filed with the committee.

Senator Kuchel?

Senator Kuchel. Mr. O’Leary, how long has there been a vacancy 

in the directorship of the Bureau of Mines?

Mr. O’Leary. The directorship, Senator Kuchel, became open in 

March of this year.

Senator Kuchel. And were you to be confirmed, what would the 

duration of your employment be in that capacity?

Mr. O’l jEAry. The duration of employment in tha t capacity, 

Senator, is indefinite. However, on a change of administration with a 

new President, inasmuch as you serve at the pleasure of the President, 

it is customary to offer a resignation.

Senator K uchel. Y ha t is the salary in this position?

Mr. O’Leary. It is in the range of $29,000 annually.

Senator Kuchel. And in your own words would you tell the committee what your views of the responsibilities of the Director are?

Mr. O’Leary. Senator, the Bureau of Mines and the Geological 

Survey, between them, are the principal mineral resource agencies of 

the Federal Government. The orientation of the Bureau of Mines is 

more toward the economic engineering than that of the Survey. The 

Survey provides the basic information on the resources, and the 

Bureau of Mines essentially is in the business of assisting in the conversion of those resources into live, viable factors within the economy. 

It is in the business of bringing these resources to bear on the economic 

growth of the country.

Senator Kuchel. How many employees are there in the Bureau 

today?

Mr. O’Leary. There are approximately 5,000. 1 am not quite up to 

date on that.

Senator K uchel. I don ’t mind saying to you, Mr. O’Leary, tha t 

it appears to me—and I don’t have the pleasure of knowing you 

personally—th at you are qualified by education and experience to 

perform the services of this directorship.

So far as I am concerned, Mr. Chairman, I have no hesitation in 

saying tha t 1 will approve of this nomination subsequently in this 

committee.

Senator Anderson. Thank you, Senator Kuchel.

Senator Moss?

Senator Moss. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. O’Leary, you have been serving now for some time in the Federal service. Since what? About 1950?

Mr. O’Leary. Since 1950, Senator.

Senator Moss. And you have a civil service rating and status, is 

tha t right?

Mr. O’Leary. I entered the civil service as a GS-5 back in 1950 

and went through the ladder of promotion until I became a schedule 

C in 1962. And during the period from 1950 until 1962 I was in the 

regular civil service.
5

Senator Moss. And did your changing to a schedule C require you 

to give up any of the benefits of a regular civil service status?

Mr. O’Leary. It required me to give up the benefits of tenure.

Senator. Moss. Of tenure.

Mr. O’Leary. I then served in the position which I occupied as a 

schedule C at the pleasure of the Secretary of the Interior. I had reversionary rights into the position that I had occupied prior to that 

position.

Senator Moss. In other words, should action be taken to terminate 

your current appointment, you would revert back to the highest 

position you held under the classified civil service status?

Mr. O’Leary. I assume tha t still to be true now. I t was true while 

I was with the D epartment of the Interior.

Senator Moss. I see. You have currently been with the Federal 

Power Commission, working with the Natural Gas Bureau?

Mr. O’Leary. I have been the Chief of th e Bureau of Natu ral Gas 

for the past 19 months.

Senator Moss. Now, by way of background, is your background 

more in the field of mineral resources, or more in the field of natural 

gas?

Mr. O’Leary. My background has been extensively in the field of 

mineral resources. I did work as a mineral economist for approximately 10 years, working the full range of minerals. In recent years 

I have worked more on the fuels side, but it has been essentially the 

whole gamut of fuels. And even though the direct responsibilities of 

my current position deal with natural gas, I am required to take into 

account the impact of natural gas on the other energy resources.

Senator Moss. But your experience is more in the field of the 

economy and supply rather than technical matters of minerals and 

fuels, is tha t right?

Mr. O’Leary. No; my experience has dealt extensively with the 

technical side. I have had from the period 1962 until 1 left the Department in 1967 a good deal of responsibility with the Assistant 

Secretary for Mineral Resources for the development of the technical 

programs of the Bureau of Mines.

Senator Moss. And you are acquainted with the personnel in the 

Bureau of Mines now? You are quite well acquainted with them, 

are you?

Mr. O’Leary. Yes; I have the sort of acquaintance tha t you 

develop over many years of close association with an organization. 

Of course, the interruption of the past 18 months means tha t I am 

not quite current with the personnel in the Bureau.

Senator Moss. You feel there wouldn’t be any serious transition 

problem of moving back into that area?

Mr. O’Leary. So far as I am concerned, certainly not, Senator.

Senator Moss. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Anderson. Senator Hayden?

Senator Hayden. No questions.

Senator Anderson. Senator Fannin?

Senator Fannin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. O’Leary, in your position you would be in charge of safety, also, 

would you not, as far as the mines are concerned?

Mr. O’Leary. Yes; I would, Senator.
6

Senator Fannin. Are you familiar with the mine safety regulations, 

statutes, tha t were adopted last year?

Mr. O’Leary. I am not familiar with the recent history of that, 

inasmuch as I left the Department before t hat became operative. But 

I am familiar quite thoroughly with mine safety regulations and 

statu tes tha t applied prior to my departure from the Department.

Senator Fannin. Why I ask is because the legislation that was 

passed most recently did entail completely encompassing of safety 

not only directly with the mines but even bar pits and with the facilities tha t are involved in road construction. I was wondering about 

your opinion or if you have given any thought to the best handling of 

mine safety or of this task; in other words, whether or not we should 

not hold to jus t mine safety and not get off into other avenues such as 

would be involved in the Bureau of Public Roads activities.

Mr. O’Leary. Senator Fannin, I simply cannot respond to that at 

this point. I am unacquainted with the terms of the new legislation 

and have not had the opportunity to acquaint myself with the problems th at are involved in the question that you ask.

Senator Fannin. I understand th at there is quite a problem as far 

as implementation of this legislation is concerned, implementation of 

programs that were supposedly going to come forth as a result of 

this legislation. I think it is quite unrealistic that we can take this 

overall m atter into consideration as far as mine safety is concerned. 

I hope t hat you will look into it, because I think it is very serious.

I think we have now assumed an obligation that is not being, I 

believe, taken care of by the Bureau of Mines, which could properly 

be taken care of if it were a direct responsibility of the Bureau of 

Public Roads.

Mr. O’Leary. 1 will certainly give very careful attention to that, 

should I go on to that position, Senator.

Senator Anderson. Very frequently we have to ask people what 

their pension rights are in outside employment. I take it you have 

been mostly with the Government for a long time. Do you have any 

pension of any kind?

Mr. O’Leary. None at all, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Anderson. 1 just want to get the record straight on that.

Do you have any questions?

Senator K uchel. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Anderson. Thank you.

Mr. O’Leary. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Anderson. Tha t concludes the questioning of Mr. O’Leary. 

Without objection, the committee will turn to other matters.

(Whereupon, the committee turned to the consideration of other 

business.)

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