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AUTHORIZING REIMBURSEMENT OF CENSUS 14 st.'41

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HEARING

BEFORE THE

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USE OF REPRESENTATIVES

EIGHTY-EIGHTH CONGRESS

SECOND SESSION

ON

H.R. 9425

A BILL TO AMEND TITLE 13, UNITED STATES CODE, TO

AUTHORIZE REIMBURSEMENT OF CENSUS ENUMERATORS

FOR CERTAIN TELEPHONE TOLLS AND CHARGES

MARCH 24, 1964

Printed for the use of the

Committee on Post Office and Civil Service

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

SO-761 WASHINGTON : 1964
COMMITTEE ON POST OFFICE AND CIVIL SERVICE

TOM MURRAY, Tennessee, Chairman

JAMES H. MORRISON, Louisiana ROBERT J. CORBETT, Pennsylvania

THADDEUS J. DULSKI, New York

DAVID N. HENDERSON, North Carolina

ARNOLD OLSEN, Montana

MORRIS K. UDALL, Arizona

DOMINICK V. DANIELS, New Jersey

LINDLEY BECKWORTH, Texas

HARLEY 0. STAGGERS, West Virginia

ROBERT N. C. NIX, Pennsylvania

JOE R. POOL, Texas

ALBERT W. WATSON, South Carolina

EDWARD R. ROYBAL, California

CHARLES H. WILSON, California

H. R. GROSS, Iowa

AUGUST E. JOHANSEN, Michigan

GLENN CUNNINGHAM, Nebraska

GEORGE M. WALLHAUSER, New Jersey

ROBERT R. BARRY, New York

KATHARINE ST. GEORGE, New York

EDWARD J. DERWINSKI, Illinois

ROBERT F. ELLSWORTH, Kansas

HOMER E. ABELE, Ohio

ALBERT W. JOHNSON, Pennsylvania

SUBCOMMITTEE APPOINTED To CONSIDER H.R. 9425

ARNOLD OLSEN,

HARLEY 0. STAGGERS, West Virginia

JOE R. POOL, Texas

ALBERT W. WATSON, South Carolina

EDWARD R. ROYBAL, California

CHARLES H. WILSON, California

II

Montana, Chairman

AUGUST E. JOHANSEN, Michigan

GLENN CUNNINGHAM, Nebraska

KATHARINE ST. GEORGE, New York

ROBERT F. ELLSWORTH, Kansas

HOMER E. ABELE, Ohio
CONTENTS

Statement of—

Scammon, Hon. Richard M., Director, Bureau of the Census, accompanied by Walter L. Kehres, Assistant Director for Administration;

Jefferson D. McPike, Chief, Field Division; and Conrad Taeuber,

Assistant Director for Demographic Fields 

Page

3

AUTHORIZING REIMBURSEMENT OF CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS AND CHARGES

TUESDAY, MARCH 24, 1964

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE

COMMITTEE ON POST OFFICE AND CIVIL SERVICE,

Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:12 a.m., in room

215, Cannon Building, Hon. Arnold Olsen of Montana (chairman of

the subcommittee) presiding.

Mr. OLSEN. This subcommittee will please come to order.

This subcommittee was appointed by the chairman of thelHouse

Post Office and Civil Service Committee for the purpose of considering

H.R. 9425, introduced by myself.

The subcommittee is composed of Mr. Staggers, Mr. Pool, Mr.

Watson, Mr. Roybal, Mr. Wilson, Mr. Johansen, Mr. Cunningham

Mrs. St. George, Mr. Ellsworth, and Mr. Abele; and I have been

designated chairman.

This bill was introduced at the request of the administration and is

designed to reimburse census enumerators for certain telephone tolls

and charges incurred in connection with their official duties. The bill

proposes to correct a situation which, in my opinion, is unfair to census

workers, and I am informed will result in saving the Government

thousands of dollars each year.

The Director of the Bureau of the Census, Hon. Richard M.

Scammon, is here to explain fully the purpose and need for this bill,

and I am sure he will be glad to answer any questions which members

of the subcommittee will wish to raise. I am informed that this bill

is not controversial.

At this point in the record we will insert H.R. 9425 along with the

language of section 24 of title 13, United States Code.

(The information follows:)

[H.R. 9425, 88th Cong., 1st sem.]

A BILL To amend title 13, United States Code, to authorize reimbursement of census enumerato-s for

certain telephone tolls and charges

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of

America in Congress assembled, That section 24 of title 13, United States Code,

is amended by adding at the end thereof the following new subsection:

"(f) Notwithstanding any other provision of law prohibiting the expenditure

of public money for telephone service, the Secretary, under such regulations as

he shall prescribe, may authorize reimbursement for tolls or charges for telephone

service from private residences or private apartments to the extent such charges

are determined by the Secretary to have been incurred to facilitate the collection

of information in connection with the censuses and surveys authorized by

this title."

1
2 REIMBURSE CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS

Hon. JOHN W. MCCORMACK,

Speaker of the House of Representatives,

Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. SPEAKER: There are enclosed four copies of a draft bill to amend

title 13, United States Code, to provide for the payment of local telephone service

in private homes, and four copies of a "Statement of Purpose and Need" in

support thereof.

We are advised by the Bureau of the Budget that, from the standpoint of the

administration's program there would be no objection to the submission of this

proposed legislation to the Congress.

Sincerely yours,

TITLE 13, UNITED STATES CODE, SECTION 24. SPECIAL EMPLOYMENT PROVISIONS

(a) The Secretary may utilize the services of nontemporary employees of the

Bureau (by assignment, promotion, appointment, detail, or otherwise) in temporary positions established for any census, for not to exceed the period during

which appropriations are available for that census. Whenever the Secretary

determines that the services of an employee which have been utilized under this

section are no longer required in such a temporary position, he may, without

regard to the provisions of any other law, return the employee to a continuing

position, with rank and compensation not less than that which he held in his

last permanent position in the Bureau:.Provided, That no employee shall, by

reason of his service in a temporary position under this subsection, lose the

protection of any law or regulation with respect to his separation, suspension,

furlough, or reduction in raak or compensation below the level held in his last

permanent position in the Bureau. Service by a nontemporary employee in a

temporary position under this subsection shall be creditable for step-increases

(both periodic and longevity) under title VII of the Classification Act of 1949, as

amended, as though it were a continuation of service in his last permanent

position.

(b) As used in this title with respect to appointments or positions, "temporary"

shall be construed to mean not in excess of one year, or not in excess of the specific

period during which appropriations are available for the conduct of a particular

census, whichever is longer. No employee of the Bureau who holds only a temporary appointment within the meaning of this section shall be considered as

other than strictly temporary for purposes of any other provision of law relating

to separations, suspensions, or reductions in rank or compensation.

(c) The enlisted men and officers of the uniformed services may be appointed

and compensated for service in temporary enumerator positions for the enumeration of personnel of the uniformed services.

(d) The Secretary may fix compensation on a piece-price basis without limitation as to the amount earned per diem, and payments may be made to enumerators

for the use of private automobiles on official business without regard to section 4

of the Travel Expense Act of 1949, as amended (5 U.S.C. 837), but at rates not

in excess of the rates provided by that Act.

(e) The Secretary may authorize the expenditure of necessary sums for travel

expenses of persons selected for appointment for attendance at training courses

held by the Department of Commerce with respect to any of the work provided

for by law.

Mr. OLSEN. I will also place in the record at this point a letter to

the Speaker of the House of Representatives from Acting Secretary

of Commerce Franklin D. Roosevelt, Jr., dated September 5, 1963,

along with the statement of purpose and need prepared by his Department.

(The letter and statement follow:)

THE SECRETARY OP COMMERCE,

Washington, D.C., September 5, 1963.

FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT, Jr.,

Acting Secretary of Commerce.

L
I

REIMBURSE CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS 3

STATEMENT OF PURPOSE AND NEED

(From the Secretary of Commerce)

The purpose of the proposed legislation is to authorize payment to census

enumerators for local residential telephone service charges when the charges are

for official business calls. At present, the Bureau may not reimburse employees

for official local telephone calls from a private residence because of the prohibition

in 31 U.S.C. 679. That section prohibits expenditure of appropriated funds

for toll or other charges for telephone service from private residences or apartments except for long-distance telephone tolls. The Comptroller General has

ruled that multimessage unit charges made by Bell System telephone companies

and other tolls for local area calls are not long-distance telephone tolls within

the meaning of the section.

The Bureau's approximately 800 interviewers carry out most of their work

through personal interviews at the respondent's home or place of business. Under

certain conditions however, telephone interviews are authorized. For example,

on several monthly recurring surveys, during the initial personal interview many

respondents express a willingness, or a preference, to be interviewed in subsequent

months by telephone. In such instances, subsequent interviews are made by

telephone. It is also essential to use the telephone for followups when an interviewer attempts a personal subsequent contact and the respondent is unavailable.

This procedure not only saves the Government thousands of dollars a year but is

a convenience to the respondents.

Census interviewers are part-time employees and operate from their residences.

It is impractical for their work to be conducted from a facility where official

telephones are available. Interviewers are expected to own a car and have an

unlimited telephone.

Until recently, there was no problem, because the law permits reimbursement

for official long-distance calls from residences and with an unlimited telephone

there were no charges for local calls. In some metropolitan areas, particularly

Los Angeles and Chicago, the telephone companies have adopted a system of

local message unit charges to suburban areas even on unlimited phones. They

are constantly extending the range of the local system, and billing more and more

calls under the local message unit system. Enumerators in the Los Angeles

and Chicago areas now are being charged as much as $15 to $20 per month in

extra tolls for official local calls which cannot be reimbursed by the Bureau.

SEPTEMBER 5, 1963.

Mr. OLSEN. Because, as Mrs. St. George has already said to me,

this bill is certainly not controversial and we think we can handle it

with dispatch, I would suggest appropriately to the witnesses that

you make your statements as brief as possible, because we are going

to have a hard time keeping members here. They are convinced

already.

Please introduce the people that you have with you, Mr. Scammon,

for the benefit of the committee members.

STATEMENT OF RICHARD M. SCAMMON, DIRECTOR, BUREAU OF

THE CENSUS, ACCOMPANIED BY WALTER L. KEHRES, ASSISTANT

DIRECTOR FOR ADMINISTRATION; JEFFERSON D. McPIKE,

CHIEF, FIELD DIVISION; AND CONRAD TAEUBER, ASSISTANT

DIRECTOR FOR DEMOGRAPHIC FIELDS

Mr. SCAMMON. I have with me this morning, Mr. Chairman, on

my left Mr. McPike of our field organization; Mr. Kehres, our Administrative Assistant Director; and on my right Dr. Taeuber,

Assistant Director of Demographic Fields, who has charge of most

of the work in the current population survey for which the interviewers and these telephone calls are used.

4.
•

4 REIMBURSE CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS

Mr. OLSEN. We certainly welcome you to the committee, and you

proceed now as you will.

Mr. SCAMMON. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, we have no formal

statement with respect to this legislation. Briefly, to summarize it,

at the present time the Census Bureau has about 800 interviewers

who work throughout the country to take monthly surveys primarily

designed to elicit information on unemployment.

These surveys are normally made by house-to-house interviews

and calls, but in many instances the followup is done by telephone

because we have found this is a Considerable saving of Government

funds. If the interviewer can telephone back to a respondent who

has already been identified and the respondent knows who the interviewer is, this facilitates exchange of information and costs less money.

At one time the Census Bureau did compensate its interviewers

for the use of their own telephones in making local calls, but discontinued this practice about 2 years ago when we learned that legislative

authority was needed to make such reimbursements. Now, in many

instances we have found that as the service area of the local phone

service has expanded to include the burgeoning suburbs in so many of

our larger cities the telephone companies have introduced a message

unit system which charges message units or even in some instances a

service charge for those calls beyond the immediate limits of the central

city.

Under the present terms of the law the Bureau is not permitted to

compensate its interview employees for this kind of local call for

which there is an exchange charge. We can only compensate those

employees if they leave their homes, go out to a service pay phone,

pay for that call, and, of course, we pay the time it takes them to get

there and come back.

Our estimate is that the actual costing on this runs $1.79 for a personal interview, 74 cents for a telephone call from a pay booth, and

only 52 cents for a telephone call from home.

What we would like to do is to have a situation in which we could

pay to these people using their own phones from their own homes the

extra message unit charges which are chargeable in the larger areas of

so many—and in increasing number, too—of the phone company

jurisdictions in this country.

Mr. OLSEN. Thank you, Mr. Scammon. Any questions on your

part, Mr. Johansen?

Mr. JOHANSEN. Is this a new policy or a new charge procedure on

the part of the telephone companies? In other words, is this of recent

origin?

Mr. SCAMMON. The particular situation which we are discussing is

of relatively recent origin. As you know, Mr. Johansen, years ago

there used to be flat charges for most telephone calls and then many,

many phones were put onto an unlimited-use basis, but within about

the last 10 years in many of the larger metropolitan areas the unlimited-use basis began to be extending over such a large area that the

telephone company began to introduce systems of message units in.

which they would charge either based on the distance from your particular phone that the phone call was or on a basis of the time which

you used the telephone or a combination of both.

We have found that this is particularly true in the big cities because

in the smaller communities in a small city or rural area you are

either calling right in the village or town or else you are calling long
REIMBURSE CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS 5

distance, and there is no problem. But in the larger metropolitan

areas we are finding our enumerators are either having to pay out

of their own pocket these extra message units, which we cannot

now legally compensate them for, or else they have to get in a car,

if they are in a suburban area drive perhaps quite a way to a drugstore, get out of the car, go in the drugstore and stand in line while

some teenager arranges a date.

Mr. JOHANSEN. You are not against that? [Laughter.]

Mr. SCAMMON. No; no. The census is primarily people, and

people are population, and we are all in favor of this function.

[Laughter.]

So what we find is that our folks, quite frankly, as you can imagine,

sometimes get irritated at this. It may only amount to a few dollars

a month, but you know how irritating this can be when you feel

you are contributing and not being compensated.

Mr. JOHANSEN. I wanted to be sure there was not possibly a

slightly higher monthly rate for the phone which would obviate

this charge.

Mr. SCAMMON. The message unit?

Mr. JOHANSEN. Yes.

Mr. SCAMMON. Not that I know of. Do you know, Walter, of any?

Mr. KEHRES. No. They vary a great deal throughout the country,

but I know of no case where you can get a telephone at a slightly

higher rate to make unlimited calls.—

Mr. JOHANSEN. This is a sort of no man's land between the local

call and the long-distance call, is it not?

Mr. SCAMMON. That is exactly right.

Mr. JOHANSEN. I have run into it in a few calls in the subu

the suburbs 

Mr. SCAMMON. Yes.

Mr. JOHANSEN (continuing). Around Washington. 4

Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Yes. NIA

Mr. SCAMMON. I think New York is a perfect example i964

Mrs. ST. GEORGE. New York is.

Mr. SCAMMON. We can pay long-distance calls. They gi s a slip 0e

that shows the numbers called. That is fine. But, as you pu

correctly, this no man's land between the simple local call a

long-distance call is what we cannot now compensate and would like

to compensate.

Mr. JOHANSEN. What is the safeguard against any abuse of this

by enumerators?

Mr. SCAMMON. I think that the safeguard here is the same safeguard we would have presently against long-distance-call abuse. We

accept the statement providing that it is supported by a bill from the

telephone company. The question might well be: How do you know

that this particular call was a Census Bureau call and not on personal

business?

We twice a year audit not only the account but actually the work

record of each one of our interviewers. We know the telephone

numbers of the people whom that person is calling, and if there are

telephone numbers here that do not jibe with the telephone numbers

of the interviewees we know there has been a cross-purpose here.

Mr. OLSEN. Let me interrupt you just one moment, and off the

record.

(Discussion off the record.)
6 REIMBURSE CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS

Mr. OLSEN. Without objection, at this point we will have placed

in the record two itemizations from the telephone company. The

first one is reimbursable long-distance bills and the second is nonreimbursable suburban charges.

(The itemizations follow:)

ILLUSTRATIVE TELEPHONE BILLS SUBMITTED BY CENSUS ENUMERATORS,

REIMBURSABLE AND NONREIMBURSABLE.

,

•;,

;

„:„.
REIMBURSE CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS 7

Mr. JOHANSEN. That is all I have.

Mr. OLSEN. It is the nonreimbursable suburban charges for which

this bill is meant to be a remedy?

Mr. SCAMMON. That is right. The others are already covered. It

is this no man's land.

Mr. OLSEN. Mrs. St. George?

Mrs. ST. GEORGE. I have one question. This will really apply, of

course, only to big metropolitan areas? Is that not correct?

Mr. SCAMMON. As of now. Of course, if the telephone company

extends this no-man's-land concept in to counties adjoining smaller
8 REIMBURSE CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS

cities—take a place like Indianapolis—and if they put this not only

in Marion County but the six or seven counties adjoining Indianapolis,

then we would be faced with the same problem there. But our intent

is only to follow whatever the practice of the telephone company

may be.

Mrs. Sr. GEORGE. I understand.

Mr. SCAMMON. This is to provide reimbursement to avoid the extra

cost involved in having people go out of their homes to pay stations

because they can be reimbursed now for pay station calls.

Mrs. ST. GEORGE. Yes. Exactly. This will just make it a much

fairer situation all around and less costly?

Mr. SCAMMON. And less costly, because it removes from the cost

the charges for getting to the pay station and getting back and lets

them go into their own living room and use the phone.

Mrs. Sr. GEORGE. Thank you.

Mr. OLSEN. Thank you, Mrs. St. George.

I would like some emphasis, Mr. Scammon, in the record as to what

these census enumerators are doing in their use of the phone.

Mr. SCAMMON. What would you have in mind, Mr. Chairman?

Just a statement of their general workload and pattern?

Mr. OLSEN. The information generally that they are gathering and

the fact that it is compulsory that this information be obtained.

Mr. SCAMMON. Would you like that now from Dr. Taeuber? Or

would you like us to put it in the record?

Mr. OLSEN. It would be fine right now.

Dr. TAEUBER. Mr. Chairman, the main survey we are talking

about is the monthly survey in which we interview some 35,000

households, a sample representing the entire country, and basically

we are collecting information on employment and unemployment.

This is information which we supply to the Department of Labor.

The official monthly statistics on employment and unemployment are

then issued by the Department of Labor.

At the same time, we do throughout the year collect a good deal of

additional information from these same households, information on

the movement of the population from area to area, information on

income, information on school dropouts, information on school enrollment. Occasionally we are asked, as recently by the Department of

Health, Education, and Welfare, to collect information on the extent

to which the population has been inoculated for polio, and a number of

other surveys of this kind, which are easy to do because we are already

contacting these households, and these are simple additions. We

also have 

Mr. OLSEN. Now, just a minute. Basically, though, and fundamentally, what is the primary reason for contacting the household?

Dr. TAEUBER. The primary reason for contacting these households is to collect the information on employment and unemployment,

to provide the official Government statistics on unemployment,

employment, hours of work, and the like.

Mr. OLSEN. Obviously, if you keep adding questions, the workload

would grow terrifically.

Dr. TAEUBER. We have to watch that very carefully. We can add

a few questions in any one month, but they have to be very few.

Mr. OLSEN. Who determines that?
REIMBURSE CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS 9

Dr. TA EUBER. This is determined in negotiation with the Bureau

of the Census, the other agencies that may be involved, and the Department of Labor, because they are primarily involved here. The

Bureau of the Budget has a role in this because of its coordinating

function for Federal statistics.

Now, we have another similar survey in which we collect information for the Public Health Service on the health situation throughout

the country. This is a different set of households, a different set of

enumerators, but the procedure otherwise is very much the same.

This provides interviews with some 35,000 households spread throughout the year, in contrast to the labor force survey which is 35,000

households each month. It provides information which the Public

Health Service publishes on illness, on loss of time due to illness, on

• use of medical facilities, and the health situation in the country as

a whole.

• This is financed by the Public Health Service. We do the actual

collection and turn the data over to them for publication.

We have a number of other surveys which follow essentially the

same procedure. During the past year we have been collecting on a

quarterly basis from some 17,000 households some information on the

extent to which they spent money for alterations and repairs of their

dwelling unit. This is a Census Bureau survey. And here again we

have the same situation. The enumerators contact the households

but on occasion have reason, because they have not been able to make

a contact at the first try or because when they check back over their

questionnaires they find they need to get in touch with the household,

to telephone, which is a convenient way of doing this and frequently

is the most economical way.

Mr. OLSEN. Well, now, in this bill there is an exception to a citation

I have here, 31 U.S.C. 679.

Mr. SCAMMON. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. OLSEN. Now, are there any other exceptions that have been

made in the past for special situations like this?

Mr. SCAMMON. My understanding, Mr. Chairman, is that there is

an exception in the Forest Service, there is an exception in the Foreign

Service, and you had another one, Walter?

Mr. KEHRES. And the Engineers.

Mr. SCAMMON. And the Corps of Engineers under similar circumstances.

Mr. OLSEN. Before I leave the doctor here, I wonder if you would

explain to the committee—and I think this is important—that these

surveys are authorized and directed by law. This is not something

• that some administrative officer dreamed up. It is something the

Congress has authorized.

Dr. TAEUBER. The surveys are authorized by law either under

title 13, which is the basic census law, or under the Economy Act.

The health survey which I mentioned is specifically authorized by an

act of Congress which also authorizes and directs the Public Health

Service to negotiate with the Department of Commerce for the collection of the data.

Mr. OLSEN. I think for the record at this point we ought to have

provided, so, if we are asked on the floor we have it, the citations of

where these authorizations come from in the law.

Mr. SCAMMON. We will supply that.
10 REIMBURSE CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS

(The information requested follows:)

Authorities to conduct surveys

31 U.S.C. 686: Authorizes the performance of services by one agency for

another.

13 U.S.C. 141: Authorizes the census of population, unemployment, and

housing.

13 U.S.C. 181: Authorizes interim surveys.

42 U.S.C. 252c: Authorizes the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare

to take surveys and also authorizes that agency to call on other agencies including

the Department of Commerce for cooperation and services.

29 U.S.C. 2: Authorizes the Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics

to call on other agencies for cooperation in collecting statistics.

Authorities relating to payment for the use of private telephones to conduct official

Government business

31 U.S.C. 679: Prohibits payment of local toll charges.

31 U.S.C. 680: Authorizes Corps of Engineers to reimburse employees for

telephone services.

16 U.S.C. 5801: Authorizes the Forest Service to reimburse employees for

telephone services.

Mr. JOHANSEN. When you say "authorized," you mean also directed, mandated, do you not?

Dr. TAEUBER. The monthly report on the labor force is authorized. It is directed in the sense that the Congress has appropriated funds to the Bureau of the Census and the Bureau of Labor

Statistics for this purpose. The replies, to answer a question you

put, Mr. Chairman, are not mandatory in this case.

Mr. OLSEN. I understand that, but the Bureau of Labor Statistics,

the Health, Education, and Welfare, and the Bureau of the Census

in each instance as they function in this field have been authorized

and directed by the Congress to do so?

Dr. TAEUBER. That is right, sir.

Mr. OLSEN. That is all I wanted to know.

Mr. JOHANSEN. My distinction was that you have already said

this is not something that is, in the chairman's words, dreamed up

by somebody, but the actual taking of this data, the collecting of this

data is not discretionary, if I understand you correctly.

Dr. TAEUBER. That is right.

Mr. JOHANSEN. It is directed by Congress.

Dr. TAEUBER. It is directed by Congress.

Mr. JOHANSEN. Which goes beyond "authorization." "Authorization" could be permissive.

Mr. OLSEN. That is right.

Mr. ROYBAL. Mr. Chairman, I would like to go back to this matter

of the health survey for just a moment. To whom are these calls

made when you are making a survey regarding the number of persons

that had a polio shot, for an example?

Dr. TAEUBER. In that particular instance—well, in all cases we

select a sample of areas. Within these areas we select very small

areas, areas that have six places, normally six addresses, within them.

And then we go to each of those addresses.

This is selected entirely impersonally using the best scientific

methodology we have for selecting samples. Having selected this

set of addresses, we then go to whoever is living at that address at

that time.

Mr. ROYBAL. Well, it is my understanding that in States like

California, for an example, perhaps other States, whenever a polio
REIMBURSE CENSUS ENUMERATORS FOR TELEPHONE TOLLS 11

shot is given to an individual by a private doctor, that doctor notifies

the health department of that fact. Would it not be better to just

contact then the health departments instead of individual houses?

Dr. TAEUBER. The problem there is that one of the main items of

information the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare wants

is who has not had them. Our information tells them for a very

small sample of households who has and who has not and permits

them then to develop their program for persuading people that these

are things that ought to be done, by knowing whether they are dealing

with young people, with older people, with very young children, and

something of whether their problem is in rural areas or urban areas.

Mr. ROYBAL. I understand.

Mr. OLSEN. Thank you. Do you have any further questions, Mr.

Johansen?

Mr. JOHANSEN. No.

Mr. OLSEN. I have no more questions. Do you other gentlemen

here have something to offer, Mr. Scammon?

Mr. SCAMMON. I think we are all in order, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. OLSEN. I think we have covered everything. Thank you very

much.

(Whereupon, at 10:32 a.m., the subcommittee proceeded in executive session.)

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