S e n M e , — i v d c A s l K t i o v u

(NOMINATIO NS—COMMERCE DEPA RTMENT^

GOVERNMENT:

2 els Storage

H E A R I N G

BEFORE T H E

COMMITTEE ON 

INTERS TAT E AND FOR EIGN COMMERCE 

UNITED STATES SENATE

EIG HTY-SEVE NT H CONGRESS

FIR ST SESSION

ON

THE NOMINATIONS OF

EDWARD GUDEMAN TO BE UNDER SECRETARY 

OF COMMERCE

ROWLAND BURNSTAN TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY 

OF COMMERCE FOR INTERNATIONAL AFFA IRS

CLARENCE DANIEL MARTIN, JR., TO BE UNDER SECRETARY 

OF COMMERCE FOR TRANSPORTATION

1

JANUARY 25, 1961

1 rinted for the use of th e Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce

64853

U.S. GO VE RN MEN T PR IN TIN G O FFIC E 

WAS HI NG TO N : 19G1
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5'$ A?'.

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CO MM ITT EE ON INTE RS TA TE AND FO RE IGN COMMERCE

WARRE N G. MAGNUSON, W’ashington, Chairman

JOHN O. PASTORE, Rhode Island 

A. S. MI KE MON RONEY, Oklahoma 

GEORGE A. SMA THERS, Florida 

STROM THURMO ND, South Carolina 

FRA NK J. LAUSCHE, Ohio 

RALPH YARBOROUGH, Texas 

CLAIR ENGLE, California 

E. L. B ARTLETT, Alaska 

VANCE HA RTKE, Indiana 

GALE W. McGEE , Wyoming

ANDREW F. SCHO EPPEL, Kansas 

JOHN MARSHALL BUTL ER, Maryland 

NORRIS COTTON, New Hampshire 

CLIFFO RD P. CASE, New Jersey 

THRUSTON B. MORTON, Kentucky 

HUGH SCOTT, Pennsylvania

Edward Jarrett, Chief Clerk

John M. McElroy, Assistant Chief Clerk

Harold I. Baynton, Chief Counsel

II

H) A ’J


NOM INATIONS— COMMERCE DEP ART MENT

Nomination of Edwa rd Gudem an, of Illinois, To Be Under 

Se cretary of Comm erce

W EDNESD AY, JA N U A R Y 25 , 1961

U.S. Senate,

Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce,

Wash ingto n, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:25 a.m., in room 

5110, Senate Office Building, Hon. Warren G. Magnuson (chairman 

of the committee) presiding.

The Chairman. The committee will come to order.

We have a long agenda this morning and several of the Senators 

are on their way but we will get started with the hearings on three 

nominations for the Department of Commerce.

The first nomination is Mr. Edward Gudeman of Illinois to be 

Under Secretary of Commerce.

We will be glad to have you come forward, Mr. Gudeman, and if 

you will pull that microphone a little closer to you, the people in the 

back will be able to hear.

Mr. Gudeman has submitted his biography to the committee. He 

was born on October 9, 1906, in Chicago, attended grammar and high 

school in Chicago, on the South Side.

I will p ut this in, too, though I don’t know why—he is a graduate 

of Harvard College, 1927, with a B.A. degree.

Immediately thereafter he joined Sears, Roebuck & Co. as a trainee, 

spent several years in Sears’ retail stores as well as 1 year learning 

manufacturing in a Sears’ factory.

In 1932 he became a buyer of refrigerators for the company and in 

1933 was given the additional responsibility as a buyer of washing 

machines. He held these positions until 1937, when he was made 

assistant general merchandise manager.

In 1939 he became assistant on buying to the vice president in 

charge of merchandising, and held this position until 1952, when he 

became vice president in charge of merchandising.

He was elected a director of the company in 1948. He resigned his 

position as vice president in October of 1959 but remained on the 

board of directors.

In 1959 he became consultant to and a director of the Brunswick 

Corp., which is a sport equipment concern, and then in the early 

spring of 1960 he became a partner of Lehman Bros., an investment 

banking firm.

In addition to being a director of Sears, Roebuck & Co. and the 

Brunswick Corp., Mr. Gudeman was a director of the Schnadig Corp., 

a furniture manufacturing company; Globe-Union, Inc., an automo1
2 NOMINATIONS— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

bile bat te ry manufactur ing con cer n; and One William Street, an 

inve stm en t fund.

He was also a dir ector of the Lyric Opera Co. of Chic ago, Michael 

Reese Ho spita l, and a memb er of the Village Council of Wi nnetk a, a 

subu rb of Chicago in which he resided.

Mr. Gu dema n has resigned from all of his comm ercial and com mu nity affiliatio ns and activities. He is marrie d to Fra ncis Alschuler; 

they have two sons, age 24 and 21. The elder son, Jon, is in the 

Gradu ate School of Social Relation s at Harva rd, havin g grad ua ted 

from the college 3 years ago. Th e you nger son, Ste phen, is a senior 

at H ar va rd College.

This is ba ttin g one tho usand. [Lau ghter.]

Mr. Gudeman. Is th at good or is th at bad?

Th e C hair man. I presum e they all matr icu lat ed before Novem ber 

8 of thi s yea r?

Mr. Gude man. I pu t no pressure on them to go to Harva rd, of 

course.

Th e Chair man. All rig ht ; we will place your bio gra phy in the 

rec ord in full and we will proceed with any questions the com mittee 

has on yo ur nomination as Un der Sec retary .

(Th e bio gra phy of Mr. Gu dema n follows:)

B io g r a ph y of E rw ard G udem a n— D esig n a ted by P r e s id e n t K en n ed y T o Be

U n d er S ec r eta r y of C omm er ce

Edw ard Gudeman was born October 9, 1906, in Chicago, Ill.

He attend ed gramm ar and high school on the south side of Chicago and was 

graduated from Harvard College in 1927 with a B.A. degree.

Imm edia tely thereafter he joined Sears, Roebuck & Co. as a trainee. He spent 

several years in Sears’ retail stores as well as 1 year learning manufacturing in a 

Sears facto ry. In 1932 he became buyer of refrigerators for the company and in 

1933 was given the additional responsibility as buyer of washing machines. He 

held these positions until 1937 when he was made assistant to the general merchandise manager. In 1939 he became assista nt on buying to the vice president in 

charge of merchandising. He held this position until 1952 when he became vice 

presiden t in charge of merchandising. He was elected a director of the company 

in 1948. Mr. Gudeman resigned his position as vice president in October of 1959 

bu t remained on the board of directors.

In December 1959 he became consultant to and a direc tor of the Brunswick 

Corp., a sports equipment concern. Then in early spring of 1960 he became a 

partn er of Lehman Bros., the inve stment banking firm.

In addition to being a director of Sears, Roebuck & Co. and Brunswick Corp., 

Mr. Gudeman was a direc tor of the Schnadig Corp., a furn iture manufacturing 

company; Globe-Union, Inc., an autom obile battery manufacturing concern; and 

One William Street, an inve stment fund.

He was also a director of the Lyric Opera Co. of Chicago, Michael Reese Hospital, and a member of the Village Council of Winnetka, a suburb of Chicago in 

which he resided.

Mr. Gudeman has resigned from all his commercial and comm unity affiliations 

and activities.

In 1932 Mr. Gudeman married Frances Alschuler. They have two sons, age 

24 a nd 21. The elder son, Jon, is in the Graduate School of Social Relations at 

Harvard, having graduated from the college 3 years ago. The younger son, 

Stephen, is a senior at Harvard College.
NOMINATIONS----COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 3

STATEMENT OF EDWARD GUDEMAN, NOMINATED TO BE UNDER 

SECRETARY OF COMMERCE

The Chairman. First, we know you have not been in the Department very long, although you have been quite busy since you have 

been there.

What is your general concept of the job of Under Secretary of 

Commerce, as provided by law, and your own conception?

Mr. Gudeman. I think, Senator, I would pu t it this way: I think 

it is twofold.

I think, one, is to help the Secretary administer the Department, 

and, two, to work with the Assistant Secretaries and their staffs to 

help them in their particular fields, in the fields of domestic affairs, 

international commerce, and transportation, primarily.

The Chairman. And the law, of codrse, sets out certain duties. 

Of course, in case of the absence of the Secretary you become Acting 

Secretary, and then the law also provides that you shall serve as the 

principal deputy of the Secretary in all matters affecting the Department of Commerce and shall exercise general supervision over several 

bureaus and offices.

In addition, you would perform such other duties as the Secretary 

of Commerce may assign.

Now, I read someplace in the paper in the last 2 days tha t there 

is a plan afoot in the Departm ent of Commerce to join together two 

broad divisions, one, under the Assistant Secretary for Domestic 

Affairs, and the other under the Assistant Secretary for International 

Affairs. One has the responsibility for foreign trade, exports and 

imports; the other is responsibile for domestic business or economy, 

and tha t often an import or an export may have some effect upon a 

manufacturer or a producer here and that is where the conflict arose.

Have you anything you can enlarge upon as far as that proposal is 

concerned?

Mr. Gudeman. Well, I think you have outlined it very well. 

Each one of the Assistant Secretaries will have the responsibility 

for his division and tha t is not being given up.

On the other hand, both will work closer together and the Secretary 

and myself will help coordinate that.

So tha t what we will do is take into consideration in each circumstance both the domestic and the international situation.

The Chairman. In other words you are hoping to achieve that any 

policy regarding, say, foreign trade that might affect our domestic 

economy, tha t the right hand ought to know what the left hand is 

doing?

Mr. Gudeman. Yes, sir; that is right.

The Chairman. Because sometimes there would be a natural 

conflict, it could not be helped?

Mr. Gudeman. That is right, sir.

The Chairman. Now, there has also been a suggestion in the press 

either recently by the President for the Secretary, or both—I suppose 

to carry this policy out, tha t the Assistant Secretaries will be a little 

more “free-wheeling”—I think that is the term used—and it was in 

quotes—and not frozen alone to the particular division tha t they are 

technically the head of.

Would th at be a correct statement?
4 NOMINATIONS— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

Mr. Gudeman. That is correct, sir.

The Chairman. You have had a long and vast experience in 

business. You will also have under you as Under Secretary, the 

Patent Office, the Weather Bureau—I wish you could have talked to 

him earlier this morning-----

Mr. Gudeman. The last few days?

The Chairman. Then, the matters of the Business Census, things 

of tha t kind—it is a long list—this is a very big department of our 

Government.

Would it be fair to say tha t you have not yet had the opportunity 

to examine the operation or the administration of those bureaus?

Mr. Gudeman. That is right; there has not been an opportunity yet.

The Chairman. You state in your biography that you have resigned 

from all your commercial and community affiliations and activities?

Mr. Gudeman. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. I suspect that you resigned from your community 

affiliations, which are very laudable, because of the fact you won’t be 

able to be present and do the kind of job you would like to do for them?

Mr. Gudeman. That is the only reason.

The Chairman. Tn regard to your commercial activities, have you 

any interests, stocks or bonds, or investments tha t in your best 

judgment would be in conflict with this job if you are confirmed?

Mr. Gudeman. No, sir; I have not.

The Chairman. This committee has always asked those whom we 

confirm or have the responsibility of confirmation to submit for the 

committee a list of their holdings and investments.

Mr. Gudeman. I will be glad to do so.

The Chairman. The Secretary has already done so, and we will 

keep this on file.

Mr. Gudeman. All right, sir.

The Chairman. Now I want to ask the committee members if they 

have any questions.

The Senator from Kansas?

Senator Schoeppel. Mr. Gudeman, I note tha t you have been 

connected with Sears, Roebuck for a number of years; I assume you 

know and have worked with Jim Worthy.

Might I just ask you generally, have you two gentlemen in your 

business relations and with the company or otherwise held similar 

views? That is completely outside of political views, I take it?

Mr. Gudeman. Yes, I would say tha t our thinking is very much 

alike. I have worked with Jim Worthy for years and years. He was 

an officer of Sears at the same time I was. We live in the same 

village and we became very good friends.

Senator Schoeppel. I assumed tha t and Jim Worthy, as you know, 

was connected with the Department up here, rendered a fine service 

and certainly I can say as one member of this committee he was very, 

very cooperative in ail matters tha t we took up with him at various 

and sundry times and I was sure tha t you two gentlemen, working 

for that fine organization, worldwide in certain respects, had some of 

the same and similar views.

Mr. Gudeman. That is nice of you to say that; I will write him.

Senator Schoeppel. Have you in your relations with any of these 

concerns of which you are a member, or have participated in, especially Sears, Roebuck, have had to deal intimately with foreign trade 

or foreign commerce?
NOMINATIONS----COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 5

Mr. Gudeman. Yes; through Sears, Roebuck ownership of stores 

in South and Central America, and I had to do with those in my 

capacity as vice president of Sears.

Senator Schoeppel. Of course, you are aware tha t there is a 

feeling on the part of many domestic businesses that the competitive 

side of the picture is growing sharper all the way down the line and 

the disparity between wages in some of these foreign countries and in 

our own Nation presents a pre tty serious question. I am sure tha t 

you have not had the opportunity as far as this Department is concerned, to get on top of that, and its relationship to what should or 

should not be done, b ut will you give tha t some serious consideration?

Mr. Gudeman. Yes, sir.

Senator Schoeppel. I have no further questions.

The Chairman. The Senator from Rhode Island?

Senator Pastore. Of course, we are developing the habit tha t 

every o pportunity we get, we beat this issue of imports and exports.

I am one of those who feel seriously it is one of the most challenging 

issues facing this Congress and this Administration, and the trouble 

with us is tha t we always swing too much to one side or the other 

before we begin to do anything about it.

Now, there is quite a considerable wave prevalent throughout the 

country of this philosophy of buy-America, and tha t is justified on 

the score tha t many of our domestic industries have been hurt by 

these imports and I think myself tha t we have handled it rather 

badly in this country, we have waited too long before we began to do 

anything at all about it.

Now, are you concerned at all with this great problem of imports 

and exports?

Mr. Gudeman. I think this is one of the major problems tha t 

faces the Commerce Department.

Senator Pastore. Could you give us—I don’t expect you to elaborate upon this in detail—but concisely, could you give us your idea 

of what you think the trouble is?

Now, you have been in the merchandising business; you have been 

importing from foreign countries, have you not, at Sears, Roebuck0

Mr. Gudeman. Foreign countries?

Senator Pastore. Yes, foreign countries, and you have been 

selling domestic articles as well?

Mr. Gudeman. Yes.

Senator Pastore. In your humble opinion, I mean, what direction 

are we going in this whole field?

Mr. Gudeman. Of course, I don’t think I can answer the whole 

question.

First, my knowledge is not tha t broad; secondly, there is not time.

On the other hand, there are several fields that I have been associated with at Sears where domestically, through improvement of 

machinery and equipment, through working closely with labor, the 

foreign competition has been met, and I believe tha t we in the Commerce D epartm ent should foster that where it can be done and tha t 

is on a selective basis, working with various industry

Senator Pastore. Don ’t you think, too, that 

the point where we have to know statistically m . r

we buy from what countries and what we sell toprRat ^fif itr ij

Mr. Gudeman. Yes, sir; I do.

64883—<51------ 2
6 NOMINATIONS--- COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

Senator Pastore. I am glad to see that an integral part of your 

background was the fact tha t you were general merchandising manager, because it strikes me if we are going to export more we need a 

better element of salesmanship and I would hope you would give 

tha t some thought. In the past I am afraid tha t much of the commerce work in many of our embassies was being done by personnel 

of the State Department who were more interested in the political 

questions involved. I would hope tha t you would give that some 

attention because I think the time has come when those representatives of the economies of this country, vis-a-vis with the economies 

of foreign countries, should be representatives of the Commerce 

Department and not the State Department?

Mr. Gudeman. Senator, we agree with you. I agree with you, 

and the Secretary and I have already discussed tha t in the few 

opportunities we have had so far.

Senator Pastore. You have a very imposing background and I 

expect th at you will do a good job.

Now, the last question, how do you actually pronounce your name?

Mr. Gudeman. Gudeman.

Senator Pastore. Thank you.

The Chairman. The Senator from Kentucky?

Senator Morton. Welcome aboard, Mr. Gudeman—Yale passes.

Mr. Gudeman. Usually when they pass they make touchdowns.

The Chairman. The Senator from California?

Senator Engle. No questions; thank you very much.

The Chairman. We heard the other night tha t this is the only 

Cabinet in all history tha t can play Yale. [Laughter.]

The Senator from Wyoming?

Senator McGee. I have only one light question and yet its lightness 

has a serious origin, Mr. Gudeman.

For some time I have been running a little private crusade in 

some of our oversea propaganda endeavors or psychological endeavors, 

however you wish to represent them, and I have said on many occasions tha t I think one of the secret weapons we have been neglecting 

is tha t of dropping Sears, Roebuck catalogs on every street corner 

in Moscow, for example, and very seriously, I think we have something 

we are missing. We should see to it. that there is a Sears, Roebuck 

catalog in every American Information Center in these various 

capitals around the world. I trust you would not consider it a conflict of interest to go back to Sears, Roebuck and encourage the 

carrying out of such if we were to adopt the policy position on tha t 

question?

Mr. Gudeman. I don’t think tha t would be a conflict of interest, 

and for your information, at the Moscow Fair we sent, I think it was 

close to a hundred thousand catalogs which were distributed in 

Russia.

One of our manufacturers had an exhibit there, and we placed these 

catalogs surreptitiously, so to speak, in tha t exhibit.

Likewise, a t the fair in Brussels 2 years ago, there was one section 

in the U.S. exhibit where our catalogs were placed and they became 

so popular tha t they had to be chained down.

Senator McGee. I can believe that.
NOMINATIONS----COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 7

We had a tendency toward a slick magazine in order to sell other 

peoples on our things over here. I think this is the slickest magazine 

of the lot.

Tha t is all, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Let the record show that the senior Senator from 

Illinois, Mr. Douglas, sends his approval of Mr. Gudeman’s nomination and Senator Dirksen also sends his approval.

Now, there are two or three other questions.

First, we started, oh, about 18 months ago, on this question of 

balance of payments deficits and we have had a staff working for that 

period of time. They have submitted a preliminary report to the 

chairman which in turn has been submitted to the President and the 

Secretary. We will have the final report ready and, of course, we 

recommend it to the Commerce Department because it deals with 

many of the matters you talk about.

One of the things we found early was that one of the biggest reasons 

for a balance of payments deficit was the fact tha t Americans spent 

overseas, in foreign travel, vast sums, which is fine, but tha t we had 

done little or nothing to encourage foreign visitors to come to the 

United States.

The committee unanimously passed a bill after hearings late in the 

last session, and it passed the Senate unanimously, but got sort of 

pigeonholed in the House; mainly because of the time element 

involved.

Now, we expect to bring it up again, maybe within the next 2 or 

3 weeks, and get going on it. We will have to ask the Department, 

of course, for their views on the matter and so we are hopeful tha t 

you will agree with the committee tha t something needs to be done 

in this field.

Maybe the specifics might be a little different, but we do have to 

get going, and tha t would come under the Department of Commerce.

One thing I want to ask your opinion about, one thing we found 

early, too, was tha t the American who tried to compete overseas 

with, say, Russia, as an example—or Belgium or France, or even 

Great Britain—say in South America, found tha t he had no credit 

system to take care of him, whereas all the other countries did.

They would go as long as 180 days credit, and tha t gave the other 

countries a distinct advantage. The Export-Import Bank finally 

agreed to, in a mild way, extend some credits, even when there were 

political risks, and I am hopeful tha t you will look into that again.

There will be some new members on the Export-Import Bank. 

The Department of Commerce originally recommended through this 

committee, and we should see if we can’t work out a system within 

the authority of the Export-Im port Bank to give our people the same 

advantage.

This is very important.

Mr. Gudeman. We agree with you thoroughly, Senator, and we 

have already started working on tha t and as soon as Mr. Burnstan 

gets down here, we expect to go into tha t fully.

We agree with you in principle, definitely.

The Chairman. And then in this field there has been a little beefing 

up of what we call trade missions throughout the world and I understand, in talking informally to you and the Secretary, tha t you feel
8 NOMINATIONS— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

tha t we should continue these trade missions if and where we think 

they are doing some good?

Mr. Gudeman. Yes, sir, we do; and make them even more effective.

The Chairman. One more question.

In July of last year the Senate passed a resolution, 338, and I will 

read it to y ou:

T h a t it is th e sen se of th e Se na te th a t in di vi du al s app oin te d to ad m in is tr ati ve 

and po lic ym ak in g po sts sh ou ld be wi llin g to serv e for a pe rio d lon g en ou gh to 

perm it th em to co ntr ib ute eff ectiv ely in th eir assign ed ta sk s, and th a t it is th e 

sen se of th e Sen ate th a t nomi nees ap pe ar in g be fore its co m m itte es sh all in dic at e 

th eir willin gn ess to serv e so long as th e Pre si de nt de sir es.

Would you care 

Mr. Gudeman. 

The Chairman. 

(No response.) 

The Chairman. 

Mr. Gudeman.

to comment on that?

I expect to do just tha t; 

Any further questions?

Thank you very much. 

Thank you.

tha t is why I am here.
Nomination of Rowland Burnstan To Be Assistant Secretary 

of Commerce

The Chairman. Now we have Mr. Burnstan to be Assistant Secretary of Commerce for Internatio nal Affairs.

This ma tter, Mr. Burnstan, of course involves some of the questions 

we asked Mr. Gudeman. So t hat we won’t belabor the point—you 

heard the questions, and heard the answers—are you in substantial 

agreement with what he had to say?

STATEMENT OF ROWLAND BURNSTAN, NOMINEE TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF COMMERCE FOR INTE RNATION AL

AFFAIRS

Mr. Burnstan. Yes, sir; I am.

The Chairman. Because directly you will have the responsibility 

of administration for some of these things down in the Department.

I will put your biography in the record in full.

Mr. Burnstan was born in Scranton and attended schools in Pennsylvania, and did some commercial work in South America; attended 

graduate school at Columbia; was a lecturing fellow at the University 

of Heidelberg and engaged in research in commercial geography in 

Tunis and Algeria.

He was associated with the firm of James O. McKinsey & Co. He 

was a lecturer in economics at the University of Chicago for 4 years 

and went to Carlton College in Minnesota as Professor of Economics 

and became chairman of the department in 1941. In the same year 

he was engaged in the organization of the Aeronautical Division of 

the Minneapolis-Honeywell Co. and remained there for awhile as its 

first director.

He became president of the Lawrence Aeronautical Co. in 1943, a 

position he held until 1950, and was also president of the Indian Motorcycle Co., which was an allied industry with Lawrence Aeronautical.

He resided in France from 1950 to 1954 as director of the European 

operations of the Pepsi-Cola Corp, and managing director of Pepsi de 

France.

In the fall of 1954 he became president of the Borg Warner International Corp., a director of many of its foreign subsidiaries. He has 

been decorated by the French and Spanish Governments; member of 

the board of directors of the Institu te of International Education and 

chairman of its Chicago Regional Advisory Committee. He is vice 

president of the American Management Association.

He married, in 1929, Miss Naomi Sloan of Evanston, Ill., and they 

have two children, Rowland, junior, a resident of New York, and Alex 

Sloan, who is employed in Switzerland.

He is a fellow of the Royal Economic Society and several other 

international societies, an associate fellow of the Institute of Aeronautical Sciences and the Royal Aeronautical Society. He is a mem9
10 NOMINATION'S— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

her of Phi Gamma Delta and the University Club in Chicago and 

New York.

We will put this in the record in full.

(The biography follows:)

B io g r a ph y of R ow la nd B u r n sta n— D esig n a ted by P r e s id e n t K en n ed y

to be Assi sta n t Sec reta ry of C om m er ce fo r I n ter n a tio n a l A f fa ir s

Rowland Burnsta n was born November 9, 1901, in Scranton, Pa. He atten ded 

the local public schools and Bellefonte Academy at Bellefonte, Pa. He was 

gradua ted with a B.S. degree from Lafa yette College, Easton, Pa., in the class 

of 1925, and received the degree of master of arts in 1926.

After 2 years of commercial work in South America, he entered the gradua te 

school of Columbia University and received the degree of Ph. D. in economics 

in 1929. He was a lecturing fellow at the University of Heidelberg in Germany 

in 1930 to 1932. During the interim period between academic sessions, he was 

engaged in research in commercial geography in Tunis and Algeria.

From 1932 to 1935 he was associated with the firm of James O. McKinsey & 

Co. He was a lecturer in economics at th e University of Chicago from 1933 un til 

1937 when he went to Carlton College, Northfield, Minn., as professor of economics and became chairm an of the dep artm ent in 1941. Th at same year he was 

engaged in the organization of the Aeronautical Division of the MinneapolisHoneywell Co. and remained there until 1943 as its first director.

He became president of the Lawrence Aeronautical Co. in 1943, a position 

that he held until 1950. During this time he was also president of the Indian 

Motorcycle Co., which was an allied industry with Lawrence Aeronautical.

He resided in France from 1950 to 1954 as director of European operations of 

the Pepsi Cola Corp, and managing direc tor of Pepsi de France.

In the fall of 1954 he became president of the Borg Warner Intern ationa l 

Corp, and a direc tor of its many foreign subsidiaries and associate companies. 

He has been decorated by both the French and the Spanish Governments for 

activities which bore upon the interests of those two countries.

At the present time he is a member of the board of directors of the Institute 

of Internatio nal Education and chairman of its Chicago Regional Advisory 

Committee. He is vice president of the American Management Association 

and is the officer in charge of the Inte rna tional Management Division.

Mr. Burnstan was married in 1929 to Miss Naomi Sloan of Evan ston, Ill., 

and they have two children, Rowland, junior, a resident of Dobbs Ferry, N.Y., 

and Alex Sloan who is employed in Switzerland, and a resident of Geneva.

He is a fellow of the Royal Economic Society; a member of the American 

Economic Association; the Academy of Political Science; and the A.A.A.S. 

He is an associate fellow of the Institute of Aeronautical Sciences and of the 

Royal Aeronautical Society, and a member of the National Foreign Trade 

Council. He is a member of Phi Gamma Delta, the University Clubs in both 

Chicago and New York, and is a Congregationalist and a Mason.

The Chairman. We will ask the same question of you, Mr. Burnstan, as we have of the other members.

Do you have any commercial interests, stocks, bonds, or investments tha t you think would be in conflict, after examining the matter, 

with this job to which you are to be confirmed?

Mr. Burnstan. I believe I have nothing tha t would be in conflict.

The Chairman. And we would ask you if you would also file with 

the committee a list, not in too great detail, but a list of the investments tha t you have for the record.

Mr. Burnstan. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. This particular job, I think your principal responsibility is to advise the Secretary on all international aspects of the 

Departm ent’s responsibility concerning industry, trade, and related 

economic activities in the international field, and to also consult with 

the Under Secretary for Transportation, and the Assistant Secretary 

for Domestic Affairs on matters of common interest in these fields.
NOMINATIONS--- COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 11

Now, this is the question we asked Mr. Gudeman: Is it your intention down in the Department to see if you can’t correlate these two 

activities to a greater extent than they have been correlated?

Mr. Burnstan. This was our understanding at my first conference 

with the Secretary. It was Secretary Hodges’ feeling tha t these had 

not been coordinated as closely as they might have been in previous 

years and he asked us all to have a greater joint effort than had been 

done before, even though each of us, of course, would have our own 

specific responsibility.

The Chairman. Because if the International Division goes off this 

way and the Domestic Affairs Division goes off this way where there 

is an economic conflict, neither purpose is served, and there has to be 

that coordination.

Mr. Burnstan. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Now, both Senators from Illinois have approved 

Mr. Burnstan’s nomination, and you heard me read the Senate resolution; do you have any comment on th at 9

Mr. Burnstan. No, sir, I agree with it.

The Chairman. If any members of the committee have some 

questions; the Senator from Kansas9

Senator Schoeppel. I would like to ask Mr. Burnstan a few questions here.

I note tha t you have had 2 years of commercial work in South 

America9

Mr. Burnstan. Yes, sir.

Senator Schoeppel. What was the natu re of th at, might I inquire, 

please9

Mr. Burnstan. Well, this was-----

Senator Schoeppel. Was tha t in the selling and development of 

markets or what 9

Mr. Burnstan. It was. The thing you referred to specifically was 

many years ago, about 30 years ago, and it was specifically selling at 

that time, but subsequent to tha t time I have been responsible for 

operations in both Brazil and Argentina, particularly, where my company had a wholly owned subsidiary in Brazil and a minority interest 

in some operating companies in Argentina. This has gone on for the 

last 5 or 6 years.

Senator Schoeppel. Mr. Burnstan, then, I am sure you are aware 

of the great difficulty tha t our domestic exporting companies encounter 

in the South American area, for example in the matter of credit. 

Frequently they find their competitors are subsidized by their own 

governments and we are at times completely stymied by the lack 

of reasonable credit facilities and that has hurt us in our sales of 

goods in the South American area.

Do you have any ideas along that line tha t you might indicate 

tha t you would look into? I think that is important tha t our people 

who are interested in exports can meet competition on extension 

of credit.

Mr. Burnstan. I agree, Senator, that this is a very serious problem and I know of many specific instances where American firms 

have lost business because they could not extend credit facilities 

comparable to those that foreign firms could, with the cooperation 

of their government.

We have looked into this to some extent. We had a lengthy 

seminar on this about a month ago in the management association
12 NOMINATIONS----COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

and many of our people were there as well as representatives from 

industry.

We also had the director of the British export plan there who 

explained in detail what was being done in Britain.

I think the whole international business community is very conscious of this and tha t they are most anxious to see some action 

taken to a t least put us on a par with our foreign competitors.

Senator Schoeppel. And that is going to entail a cooperative effort 

on the part of many companies in our country and also a reasonable, 

sympathetic approach by our Government; do you agree with me 

on that?

Mr. Burnstan. I agree, I agree absolutely.

Senator Schoeppel. Now, Mr. Burnstan, I note tha t a ScrippsHoward writer had a story yesterday saying tha t you were named as 

an Assistant Secretary of Commerce, but tha t your title would not 

designate whether you were responsible for domestic or international 

affairs.

I note that your biographical statement says th at you are to be the 

Assistant Secretary for International Affairs.

Could you tell us exactly what your assignment is?

Mr. Burnstan. Well, this was an unfortunate mixup in the news 

release and I believe the Secretary has corrected this as to my responsibilities.

I am responsible for advising the Secretary and Under Secretary 

and my other colleagues on matters pertaining to international trade, 

international finance, and all of the collateral problems that are 

encountered in these fields.

We have the administration of various programs designed to increase 

our trades and these include some that have already been mentioned 

here, such as the trade fairs and the various missions.

We have discussed informally the possibility of stepping up our 

travel activity here in the United States, once again, comparable to 

what most of the European nations do where most of our travel 

expenditures are made, and we have a feeling tha t there are several 

fields of this type where good progress can be made, and all of this, of 

course, will contribute to the problem of balancing our international 

payments.

Senator Schoeppel. One final question, and I hope it is not the 

$64 question, but it is providing some concern all over our Nation.

I note tha t you have had considerable experience abroad in the 

management of foreign subsidiaries of a number of United States 

companies.

From your experience and your observation, do you think or feel 

tha t there is danger tha t we are exporting our capital and know-how 

and in the process producing unemployment in our own country?

Mr. Burnstan. No; this is a very complicated question and I hate 

to answer it in a few words, but such studies as we have made, and 

by “we” I mean not only my company but many companies who are 

interested in it, I hope to be able to show you in a short period of time 

tha t I think this is not the case.

I don’t believe th at it has contributed to unemployment. I think 

tha t actually in strengthening some of these foreign economies we 

have built up better customers and increased the tempo of international trade rather than cut it down, and it is my feeling th at every
NOMINATIONS----COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 13

time you increase the tempo you employ more people rather than less 

on both sides of the market.

Senator Sciioeppel. Well, that is an interesting approach. There 

are men on this committee, who are vitally interested in the textile 

industry and io some of the related industries, who have been heard g 

from men of great responsibility and experience tha t they are 

constantly losing their markets to some of the foreign areas by reason 

of the disparity in wages and because of the conditions under which 

they compete in various countries. It is causing, rightfully or wrongfully, whether they understand it or not, some great degree of concern 

that is reflected to us as Members of the Congress, and T assure you 

such concern is felt even in my mid western section, which isn’t as 

highly industrialized as other sections of this country.

1 am getting complaints from many, many sources and they have 

been pyramiding and pyramiding in the last 2 or 3 years. I shall 

certainly look forward to the study that you have referred to and to 

your position on it after you have analyzed it, in view of your experience and background.

Mr. Burnstax. Well, Senator, 1 think in specific instances what 

you say is quite correct. I wouldn’t deny for a moment tha t some 

industries have been badly hit. 1 was speaking in general terms, but 

if we get to the specific I am sure tha t this is going to take some careful study to see that these industries are not harmed.

Senator Schoeppel. Thank you.

The Chairman. For instance, in the Department, although it is 

maintained specifically as an agency by law somewhat independently, 

you do their housekeeping; a specific instance is shipbuilding. We 

have now dropped to be the 12th in the world in shipbuilding, and 

many of our American operators have gone to other countries to build 

ships. Now, this is a matter where we get to specifics, tha t is something we have to look at specifically. There may be many cases, I 

suspect, where the policy of closing the door to imports may not help 

the overall, but we might say, let’s see what we can sell into this 

country so tha t both sides are in better shape.

Mr. Burnstax. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. And I think tha t can be done in many, many cases, 

but there are some specifics th at we have got to take care of.

Now, I want to say this, I have said it many times before, I don’t 

ask you to agree with me, but the Tariff Commission has been useless. 

I mean, it locks the barn door after the horse is gone. Eighteen 

months is about the average time for a case down there and I would 

suggest tha t the Department of Commerce, in advising the President 

of these matters, take some more expeditious action once in awhile 

where the case itself, the specific, the facts are very clear. The 

Department of Commerce should be merely advisory, but when you 

get their advice it is often too late. They have the most cumbersome 

procedure, I don’t know how many committee members agree with 

me, of any agency in the Government. I am hopeful in putting 

these things together tha t both your division and whoever will be 

the Assistant Secretary for Domestic Affairs can help this situation. 

Sometimes this is caused by Government procedures rather than the 

economic situation. They are cumbersome, slow procedures.

The Senator from Rhode Island?

64883— 61-
14 NOMINATIONS--- COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

Senator Pastore. It is my confirmed opinion, sir, tha t I think you 

are going to have one of the most responsible positions in the whole 

administration because, as I understand it, you will not only represent 

the Department of Commerce on the Advisory Council but you will 

also be the chairman on export policy. I was very much interested in 

what you had to say with the development of this tempo, but don’t 

you think tha t this development of the tempo insofar as exports are 

concerned, has to be measured vis-a-vis with the development of the 

tempo insofar as imports are concerned?

Mr. Burnstan. Oh, yes; definitely.

Senator Pastore. And will you admit that in past years—-now, 

when I say past years I mean in the last 3 or 4 years—the rise in 

our imports lias been much greater than the rise in our exports?

Mr. Burnstan. I am not quite sure of that, Senator. I can’t really 

answer it with full knowledge.

Senator Pastore. Well, we conducted an investigation in this 

committee and we find now tha t our imports have caught up with 

our exports in dollars and if not so, pretty close to it, and one time 

we used to export between $18 to $20 billion and import about $12 

billion and now they have caught up with one another; it is in the area 

between $14 and $15 billion.

Now, I think myself that tha t requires very, very close attention. 

Would you be reluctant to recommend quotas where you thought 

tha t irreparable harm was being done to a domestic industry?

Mr. Burnstan. No; not if I thought there was a specific situation 

of the type you describe. I think this might be the only method 

tha t we could employ.

Senator Pastore. Have you any ideas in what is going to be done 

for the small businessman or the small operator in the United States 

who can’t go through the expense of going before the Tariff Commission? Do you think tha t the Commerce Department should 

concern itself with developing the data that might be necessary to 

protect tha t industry?

Mr. Burnstan. Well, I think that tha t data is developed but 

whether it is in the form tha t the small operator can employ I am not 

prepared to say.

Senator Pastore. Well, the whole tendency in this country is 

towards bigness. Now, I have no objection toward bigness but you 

find sometimes tha t the operator of a small mill in Rhode Island, who 

has a very, very serious complaint to make, the only way tha t he can 

protect himself is to go before the Tariff Commission to invoke the 

escape clause provisions of the law. Well now, tha t is a costly procedure and I think the time has come when an individual of tha t kind 

ought to be placed in the position that he can go elsewhere in the 

Government and get some kind of relief without going through this 

tremendous expense that, let’s say the United States Steel Co. can 

afford to go through.

I think some thought ought to be given toward th at. What is your 

idea of th at?

Mr. Burnstan. I think tha t sounds very reasonable, I don’t 

believe we should neglect these people just because of their economic 

position tha t doesn’t permit them to take advantage of the institutions t hat are in existence.

Senator Pastore. Well, I think tha t you are going to occupy one 

of the most responsible positions in this administration within the
NOMINATION'S— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 15

next 3 or 4 years because, I repeat again, I think this international 

trade is a very, very serious problem. We have to develop more exports, we all recognize that. We have to watch very closely this 

import situation as to what effect it has on American jobs; I think we 

ought to obviate this new trend tha t has taken place in the Government.

I heard the other day, and this is only a rumor, tha t a responsible 

official in the Garment Workers of America is going to take the 

position very shortly tha t he will not cut Japanese cloth to make 

American clothes unless something is done. I don’t think we ought 

to wait until we get to these extremes because internationally I think 

tha t tha t would cause us a tremendous amount of damage politically, 

and I think we ought to meet these conditions before we get into 

extreme positions.

Do you agree with that?

Mr. Burnstan. Yes, sir; I do.

The Chairman. And you will find many specifics that you are going 

to have to meet. Our tuna fleet is practically dead because of imports 

of fresh and frozen tuna from Japan. This is a situation, it is not 

good for Japan ; it is not good for us.

The boats might rot before th ey get down to it at the Tariff Commission. Plywood is another, but these are the specifics we are talking 

about tha t you have got to correlate some way. I hope the spirit in 

which you gentlemen have talked today will prevail to tha t end.

As the Senator from Rhode Island said we have to look at the 

overall, too. There are many places where we can compete in the 

world if we want to tha t we have not yet explored.

The Senator from New Hampshire? Any questions?

Senator Cotton. I simply would like to say to Mr. Burnstan what 

I said to the Secretary of Commerce the other day when he was up 

before this committee, and I said then as I say now, tha t the only 

reason I am interpolating this remark is because I think perhaps it 

conies from this side of the committee with b etter grace than it would 

from the majority side at this point.

I am one of the Senators who, because of the situation in my own 

State and because of the situation in the country, feels very, very 

deeply about the m atte r of textiles, and I sat, under the able chairmanship of the Senator from Rhode Island, on the special subcommittee 

for a couple of years in which we went into this whole situation and 

made certain specific recommendations.

Among those recommendations was an interagency committee tha t 

would be a working, functioning committee.

The reason I say th at these remarks perhaps come with better grace 

from this side of the aisle is because I think my friends on the other 

side in their moments of trium ph may be too gracious to say this.

I felt as a Republican tha t we had a consistent runaround by the 

administration downtown despite the fact tha t I am a stanch supporte r and admirer of President Eisenhower and his administration, 

but in this instance I was very much disgusted.

They gave us the interagency committee b ut they might just as well 

have given us a boy scout troop as far as it amounted to anything. 

I felt tha t it simply went through the motions and tha t there was no, 

I won’t say no interest, but certainly that the predominant feeling 

about our overall international trade was so deep that they almost 

reached the point, and by they I mean whoever was determining the
16 NOMINATIONS— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

economic policies in the Department of Commerce and in the administration and advising the President, tha t they almost went to the 

point, let almost any single industry here perish because we must not 

forget the overall industrial and political viewpoint.

1 just want to say tha t I hope, I don’t promise to change my politics 

if you do this, but I hope that in your work and the incoming administration tha t in the case of the textile industry as well as others we are 

going to get something more than pleasant looks and sweet commendation and a few gestures.

1 think tha t the textile—I know, I don’t think at all—I know that 

the textile industry is just gasping out its life, and to he sure, it requires study and I know that you are undertaking a new task and a 

very difficult one, but we have had studies and studies and studies 

and studies, and I simply want, as one member of the committee, 

while we have you up here, because we hope you will come frequently 

but you will have other things to do besides listen to our observations—I just wanted to take this opportunity to say to you as you 

enter this job tha t I hope you will give the textile industry a very, 

very earnest and serious consideration and tha t I sincerely hope that 

you will see your way clear in counseling the Secretary of Commerce 

and the President of the United States to get us action in it, paying 

due attention, of course, to our overall policies.

The Chairman. The Senator from Florida?

Senator Smathers. Mr. Chairman, first 1 wish to congratulate Mr. 

Burnstan on the statement that he is making and echo the sentiments 

that have been expressed tha t you are undertaking a very vital work 

and I am certain that you appreciate t hat fact.

1 would like to ask you this question.

As the Assistant Secretary in charge of international affairs, will 

you have anything to do with the so-called bilateral agreements which 

will be made between the airlines—actually they are made between 

the countries, but for the airline industry of the United States, vis-avis, the airline industry of other countries?

Mr. Burnstan. I think, Senator, th at would come more specifically 

under transportation but we would get into it on matters of inte rnational economic policy.

This is my understanding, although I have had no opportunity to 

examine it.

Senator Smathers. I would like in the event that you are interested, 

and I know that you will have some interest in it, I would like very 

much to direct your attention to the fact tha t over the past 8, 10, 

12 years, tha t each of these bilaterals which has been worked out 

apparently has been worked out by the Federal Government contrary 

to the wishes, in most instances, of the domestic airline industry, and 

it has been demonstrated tha t it has been worked out contrary to 

their individual interests, with the result that we find the American 

aviation industry, when I say “American” I mean the U.S. aviation 

industry, is suffering intolerable competition by virtue of these agreements tha t have been worked out by their governments, supposedly 

for them. If you had a doctor treating you in the same manner as 

our Government has been treating our own airline industry in this 

particular field, why, you would not be alive very long and neither 

would I.

So I direct your attention to tha t as a very serious problem, and 

one which is growing worse and one which if something is not quickly
NOMINATIONS--- COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 17

done to change, we will not have a major carrier in the foreign field 

able any longer to compete with these foreign airlines, each of which is 

subsidized by its own government.

So, I would ask you to take a look at that, please, sir.

The other question I would like to ask you is with respect to free 

trade zones.

What is your general view with respect to free trade zones?

Mr. Burnstan. Well, 1 have seen them operate, some effectively, 

some not very effectively. 1 have employed them in some instances 

in my own work, we have used the free zone at Antwerp to store such 

things as appliances for future sale in the European market, only 

paying our local charges but no taxes to the Government of Belgium 

because they were transshipped to another area.

We have used the one in Panama. Of course, they are quite a 

convenience to industry when you want to get your goods in an area 

for quick shipment in order to not have a tax or tariff imposed that 

makes it impossible to ship them there.

Senator Smathers. T know tha t you don’t know which way I am 

going and consequently you don’t know which way you want to go 

at the moment, I don’t mean to say tha t impolitely, but let me say 

this: You would be of a disposition, where a community tha t was so 

geographically located could demonstrate tha t it would be desirable 

to have a free trade zone, th at the industry in the area, the merchants 

in the area could provide for, you would be of a disposition, I presume, 

to approve of their application for the establishment of a free trade 

zone, where you thought it would generally improve the commerce 

and commercial intercourse between this country and other countries.

Mr. Burnstan. Yes, many of them are very advantageous to our 

own export activity.

I have seen abuses of this sort where they set one up some years ago 

in northern Chile which was only used as a point for smuggling over 

the mountains into Brazil and finally into Chile itself and it was 

abandoned, but by and large, I think they have been a useful interest 

on the p art of exporters.

Senator Smathers. I, of course, would not want to see one set up 

tha t was used for the purpose of smuggling. I am certain you would 

do everything you could to avoid that.

Mr. Burnstan. I ju st wanted to point out this is not a-----

Senator Smathers. I have more specific reference to one in Florida 

somewhere and if it could be established that commercially it was 

feasible I presume that you would give your wholehearted endorsement, having been convinced that it would be to the overall advantage 

of general industry and commerce in the United States.

Mr. Burnstan. Yes, sir; I certainly would.

The Chairman. The Senator from California?

Senator E ngle. I would like to comment, Mr. Chairman, on the 

remarks made by Senator Pastore. Tha t is, tha t the point in the 

escape clause procedure is for all practical purposes no remedy at all 

for a small businessman. Senator Pastore mentioned the expense. 

The problem is tha t the small businessman has to come in with a 

showing that the entire industry is injured by these imports; his own 

showing is important in that particular but he has to have the facilities 

to get a report on the whole industry and for all practical purposes, 

therefore, he doesn’t have a practical remedy before any Government 

agency at tiie present time.
18 NOMINATIONS— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

I am in hopes tha t you will give that your serious consideration to 

see if some way can’t be worked out where the small businessman can 

bring his problems to the Federal Government without having to hire 

a staff tha t will require a very large organization and substantial 

financing. I am sure you will give tha t your attention.

I am very much impressed by your qualifications and I wish you 

good luck on this job.

Mr. Burnstan. Thank you, sir.

The Chairman. The Senator from Indiana?

Senator Hartke. I want to congratulate the administration on their 

selection and want to welcome you here and I think tha t anyone 

who knows about you at all knows you don’t come as a novice in this 

field, but with a broad experience and background which I think is 

wonderful for this particular spot.

I do think this, with regard to the textile industry, as I called the 

attention the other day of the members of the committee, tha t we 

from the Midwest would like for the rest of the Commerce Department 

to know that we are interested in textiles, but we have steel and other 

products; we just don’t want you to become an exclusive Commerce 

Department for textiles.

Mr. Schoeppel asked a question concerning foreign trade and as I 

interpreted your answer, what you stated was tha t in the ultimate, 

if you develop new customers tha t this was the substance of your 

remark, the development of new customers overseas with our capital 

tha t it ended up in mutual advantage not alone for those people but 

for the United States. Is tha t what you said?

Mr. Burnstan. Yes, sir.

Senator Hartke. You have been working also, haven’t you, Mr. 

Burnstan, with other people in the industry as well as with the 

Secretary of Commerce, before he was appointed as Secretary of 

Commerce in trying to develop new lines of thought, particularly in 

relation to South America; isn’t tha t right?

Mr. B urnstan. Yes, yes; we had an industry group th at functioned 

at the request of then-Governor Hodges and we worked with an 

academic group on a report concerning the situation in South America. 

We contributed what we could on the specific economic side from our 

own experiences and the academic group went into the general economics of it and we came up with a combined report tha t we submitted 

to him.

Senator Hartke. And this was done prior to the time tha t it was 

known th at he was going to even become the Secretary of Commerce? 

I mean, I don’t know whose brain child it was, but a lot of them say 

it was the brain child of the present Secretary of Commerce Hodges, 

to bring these people together, the industry and the academic?

Mr. Burnstan. That is correct. It was at his suggestion t hat we 

got together.

Senator Hartke. And I would hope tha t this could continue and 

I am sure with your appointment now, and with Governor Hodges, 

that you will be able to utilize not alone this academic group but the 

industry group in an advisory capacity. Don’t you feel tha t they 

would be willing to advise you?

Mr. Burnstan. The whole group were willing that I should make 

the sacrifices to come down here to work and they urged me to do so 

and agreed to continue to support us. I am sure tha t this—I was
NOMINATIONS— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 19

very proud to be associated with this group and there are some outstanding people—1 am sure they will work with us. They have 

indicated tha t they would.

Senator Hartke. I suppose what you are smiling about, you don’t 

want to be the scapegoat in case all those dreams fail to come true, 

is t hat what you are saving?

Mr. Burnstan. That is what was in the back of my mind.

Senator Hartke. 1 want to congratulate you. I am very delighted 

to see you here and 1 know you will be a success in this project.

Mr. Burnstan. Thank you, sir.

The Chairman. The Senator from Wyoming?

Senator McGee. Mr. Burnstan, how much of the concern that we 

are all expressing here, and 1 add my concern because again our part 

of the world is disrupted rath er severely from time to time on the 

import question in our wool-growing role, in some of our ores that 

we produce, and other activities. How much of our sudden decline 

in the international trading picture is due to our what, shall I say, 

our lack of competitive drive to try to hold these markets?

Mr. Burnstan. I am not sure, Senator, that I could give you a 

real quantitativ e answer on tha t. I know that the condition exists. 

Having been engaged in international work for many years I find 

that it is very often, even with my own colleagues, I have a hard time 

convincing them of the opportunities to sell abroad and of the necessary moves to create and expand markets overseas.

I think we have made good progress in industry in general in the 

last 8 or 10 years, a very marked progress compared to earlier periods, 

but I am sure tha t we still have before us a long educational job, not 

only to the opportunities but to help some of the smaller industries 

particularly to see how they can participate. Here again it is the 

same problem tha t was expressed of the small industry compared to 

the large. In my company we had good facilities for doing these 

things. I think it is just as possible for small businessmen to export 

if they only understood the techniques and realized the services that 

are available to them. They don’t have to set up an expensive 

export department. There are agencies that will function for them 

on a reasonable fee basis, sometimes cheaper than even large companies can do it for themselves.

Senator McGee. The reason I raised tha t question, and I appreciate your response, is that I felt the tone of the questioning showing 

proper apprehension about the impact of these rising productive 

efforts overseas on our own markets overseas and on our domestic 

markets here at home might leave the picture pretty much suggesting 

tha t we were going to try to serve up on a silver platter a guaranteed 

market to our various economic endeavors in this country and I 

personally would think this might be not a favor to business but a 

real liability.

Since World War II, or particularly because of World War II, we 

have been in a very fortunate position. For awhile we didn’t have 

to sell anything to the world, all we had to do was deliver it, everybody 

else was out of business, out of commission. And these new countries 

at least had one byproduct advantage of the bombings they had to 

endure, they got rid of a lot of old, obsolete equipment and conditions 

and are able to come in with the newest and the latest and the best
20 NO MI NA TION S--- CO MM ER CE DE PA RT MEN T

in some lines and for tha t reason we hav e been at a competitive disadv antage because we have refused in some areas to change as rapidly .

So I would hope tha t in the tota l picture as we keep a proper concern for our own productiv e endeavor and our own business groups 

tha t we likewise expect from business a sincere and a genuine drive 

to remain competitive in this and not to ask the Governm ent to 

deliver it to you on some tied-up and read ymade basis. Th at is the 

reason I am impressed with your approach into this new and rath er 

fearsome, but 1 think exciting respo nsibility. With your academ ic 

background coupled with your practic al business experience in this 

field I would hope tha t in the not too distant future we migh t come 

up with wha t some are calling an adju stm ent formula in this whole 

trade field which takes into account these ma ny factors.

In the past we have depended on cha rity or we have depended 

on the application quickly of the quota system and I think tha t we 

have found that those are expedients but they are not cures, they are 

not sufficient correctives in the long pull and surely we can arrive 

at a formula that would take into account the changin g marketing 

conditions, the chang ing competitive conditions, the national secu rity 

interest, the dislocations economically here at home that require some 

help, rather than expect a single company or a single State or a single 

area to absorb tha t disaster whenever it arises, and tha t out of this 

will come a more forward-looking and rathe r direct procedural 

operation that will help us to build more strong trade relations and 

still strengthen our economy here at home.

Now, tha t may be the impossible job, but I think your background 

suggests a chance of going in tha t direction.

The C hairm an. Y ou want to suggest also tha t you professors 

could be a little practic al about this, too, don’t you?

Senator M cG ee. The professors of the kind tha t I know, Mr. 

Chairm an, are always practical. We have some few impractical 

ones and we hav e some few impractical politicians, but no one holds 

them up as the epitome of those who have the responsibility and yet 

they should be tolerated.

The C hairman. The Senator from Alaska, do you have any 

questions?

Senator B artlett. No, unfortuna tely I don ’t, Mr. Chairman.

The C hairman. Thank you ver y much, Mr. Burnstan.
Nomination of Clarence Daniel Martin, Jr., To Be Under 

Secretary of Commerce for Transportation

STATEMENT OF CLARENCE DANIEL MARTIN, JR., NOMINATED 

TO BE UNDER SECRETARY OF COMMERCE FOR TRANSPORTATION

The Chairman. The Under Secretary of Commerce for Transportation, Clarence Daniel Martin, Jr.

We will be glad to hear from him.

We will put Mr. Martin ’s biography in the record in full. I 

might say to the committee that Mr. M artin is from H arvard [laughter], but the chairman and my colleague, Senator Jackson, have 

known him for many, many years and he took graduate study at the 

University of Washington School of Law.

He conies from a very pioneer family in the State of Washington, 

his father having been Governor, Senator Schoeppel, for two terms, 

and has a distinguished war record; has been engaged in the wholesale 

hardware, raw materials business, and most recently in the retail 

automobile business and real estate business in southern California 

and Phoenix.

He was California State president for the Navy League, he has 

been very active in local affairs in the Boy Scouts in the area, and 

service clubs in his area in California.

Mr. Martin was married to Charlotte Mary Yeoman of Butte, 

Mont., and they have three children. They reside in California. We 

will place this in the record in full.

(The document follows:)

B io g r a ph y o f C la r en c e D a n ie l M a r t in , J r.— D esig n a te d by P r e s id e n t

K en n e d y T o B e U n d e r Sec r e ta r y o f C om m er ce for T r a n spo r ta tio n

Clarence Daniel Martin, Jr., was born October 23, 1916, in Spokane, Wash. 

He attend ed the public schools of Cheney, Wash., and Culver summ er schools, 

Culver, Ind. Following grad uation from high school in 1934, he e ntered Harvard 

College and was gradua ted in 1938 with a B.S. degree. The next year he took 

graduate study at the University of Wash ington School of Law.

In 1939 he joined the family flour m anufacturin g business, F. M. Martin Grain 

& Milling Co., Inc., Cheney, Wash. As a graduate of the Ha rva rd NROTC he 

was called to active du ty in May 1941 and saw 5 yea rs’ active service in World 

War II with the U.S. Navy, rising from the rank of ensign to lieu tenant commander as a naval avia tor, a patrol plane commander on duty in the Air Force 

Atla ntic Fleet, and comm anding officer of the U.S. Naval Air Facility, Middle 

River, Md.

Upon release from active duty in 1946 Mr. Martin formed a partnership in 

Seattle, Wash., engaged in wholesale hardware and later a raw materials business. 

Since 1950 he has been sub stan tially engaged in business in Los Angeles County, 

Calif., a retail automobile dealership at S anta Monica and real estate developments 

in Inglewood, Calif., San ta Monica, and Phoenix, Ariz. His fath er, the late 

Clarence D. Martin, was Governor of the State of Washington, 1933-41, and 

following his father’s dea th in 1955, Mr. Martin assumed the managem ent of 

the family corporation in Washington State, principally farming, real esta te, and 

miscellaneous investments.

He was California State president for the Navy League of the United States; 

president of the Santa Monica Bay Council, Navy League of the United Sta tes;

21
22 NOMINATIONS--- COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

executive board, Boy Scouts of America; president of th e Bay Council; mem ber, 

Rotary Club of San ta Monica.

In 1944 Mr. Martin married Charlotte Mary Yeoman of Butte, Mont., and 

the y have three children, Diana, 7, Cary, 5, and Bradley, 4.

Senator Engle. Will the chairman yield?

The Chairman. Yes.

Senator Engle. We in California regard Dan Martin as a Californian, I want to make that very plain. He went to Harvard and he 

spent a great deal of time in Washington, and his father was Governor 

of Washington, but for the last 10 years he has been in California, T 

have known him a long time. I am a great admirer of his, and we are 

glad tha t he is a transplanted Washingtonian in California. He has 

made a significant success in business in our State and we are proud, 

indeed, that he has been nominated for this very fine office and I want 

to say that he has California’s unqualified endorsement and support.

The Chairman. Well, you fellows in California stick together, I 

have a note here, Senator Kuchel’s office advises that the Senator 

is in California but because the nominee comes from California there 

is no objection to him. [Laughter.]

Senator Smathers. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Martin, being a Harvard 

graduate and from California, it makes him a little suspect to us 

Floridians—of course, 1 am just kidding—I want to add my word of 

congratulation to the administration for having appointed a man of 

the obvious capacity to do good work and make wise decisions. It 

has not been my privilege to know him very long but 1 did get to know 

him recently and he was most effective in the job he undertook there.

1 am satisfied that he will be a fine addition to this administration 

and will do great service to the country. T am happy to join with you 

in endorsing him.

Senator McGee. Will the chairman yield on that point?

The Chairman. Yes.

Senator McGee. I would like to observe in my brief tenure on the 

committee that this is the first instance tha t I have observed where 

the Senators on the committee have engaged in open contest claiming 

the citizenship of an applicant for a Federal office. 1 don’t see how 

anything could offer a more promising prospect for the candidate’s 

being well handled by the members of this committee.

Wnen you come up with tha t three-legged qualification, Harvard, 

Washington, California, I say this is the ultimate. [Laughter.]

The Chairman. Well, my colleague from the State of Washington 

has something to say. It will be a four-legged stool now.

STATEMENT OF HON. HENRY M. JACKSON, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF WASHINGTON

Senator Jackson. Mr. Chairman, just a little more support for the 

main leg of the three-legged State of Washington.

I want to associate myself with the remarks made here regarding 

Mr. Martin. I have known him for 25 years and he comes to this 

committee this morning, T think, with an excellent background to 

serve in the Government.

He has a long record of good business judgment. He has been most 

successful in business. He has the additional qualification which I 

think is so important and often misunderstood, namely, that business 

people do not automatically understand Government.
NOMINATIONS--- COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 23

He has the unique qualification, Mr. Chairman, of having a good 

business background and also a background in government. He grew 

up in Government during the period that his father served as Governor 

of the State of Washington, during difficult times.

He had a chance to see at first hand the important responsibility 

borne by our State Governors; he has a knowledge of Federal Government and 1 think that this combination of a good business record and 

an understanding of Government, plus outstanding integrity, loyalty, 

and ability, augurs well in this position and I want to join my colleagues 

in endorsing him for this position.

1 appreciate the kindness of the chairman in permitting me to 

make a statement this morning.

The Chairman. Thank you, Senator.

The authority for this position, Under Secretary of Commerce for 

Transportation, is quite varied and quite important.

I want to read it into the record. I think sometimes in the past 

we have not realized not only the very authority but the important 

authority tha t is vested in this p articu lar Under Secretary.

It is as follows:

All th e au th o ri ty ve sted in an d ex ercised bv th e he ad s of th e Defen se Air 

T ra nsp ort ati on A dm in is trat io n, th e Bur ea u of Pub lic Ho ads, Civ il A ei on au tics 

A dm in is trat io n, W ea th er Burea u, Coa st an d G eo de tic Su rvey , an d M ar iti m e 

A dm in is trat io n an d th e Fe de ra l M ar itim e Boa rd , ex ce pt for su ch re gu la to ry 

or ot her fu nc tion s spec ifica lly re se rv ed to th e B oa rd unde r th e law , are he reby 

mad e su bje ct to th e polic y direc tion and co or di na tion of th e Und er Sec re ta ry of 

Com merce f or T ra nsp ort ati on.

Now, Mr. Martin, this covers a wide field and with the exception 

of the Bureau of Public Roads and the Weather Bureau all of these 

bureaus and the agencies mentioned come under the jurisdiction of 

this particular committee, so tha t we, of course, are deeply interested 

in this job because it becomes a very sensitive one to us in that a great 

deal of the legislation tha t comes before this committee relating to 

these forms of transportation must be looked at as a matter of policy 

by you, and, of course, we look forward to recommendations of those 

who hold this position.

Now, 1 wanted to ask you if you have any preconceived ideas 

regarding the separation of the various modes of transportation as 

they now exist in our transportation system in this country, namely, 

we have a lot of legislation pending on this, there has been a separation in tha t except under certain circumstances the railroads don’t 

run truck lines, the truck lines don’t run steamship lines, or steamship 

lines don’t run aviation fines, and I was wondering if you could state 

for the committee if you have any preconceived ideas regarding tha t 

very important question9

Mr. Martin. No, Senator Magnuson, I have a very, I hope, open 

mind on the subject. I have no preconceived notions whatsoever or 

wherever on any of the modes of transportation. The subject is 

extremely involved, it is very sensitive, and I would hope tha t with 

the aid and assistance of this committee and the studies tha t have 

been made on the subject tha t the policy of the Government could be 

made workable and that it could coordinate with all the activities.

The Chairman. The committee has also had a transportation 

study going on under the direction of the U.S. Senate, a report has 

recently been made, it is known commonly as the Doyle report.
24 NOMINATIONS— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

The staff was headed hy General Doyle and the committee wants to 

recommend, of course, tha t report for your study.

I am wondering if you have read the report or if you have any 

particular ideas regarding the recommendations made. It was a 

staff report to the committee and this committee has not passed on it 

as yet?

Mr. Martin. No, sir; I have not seen the full report, I have seen a 

summary which I examined briefly yesterday.

The report struck me as being extremely extensive in scope, I would 

suspect tha t a great deal of time and effort was taken in its preparation and certainly it would merit a good deal of time and study.

The Chairman. Would you have the same answer to give the 

committee regarding the so-called Landis report, which deals with the 

regulatory agencies, all of them, but more specifically with the transportation regulatory agencies?

Mr. Martin. I read the synopsis, Senator Magnuson, tha t was 

distributed on the Landis report. I read it three times.

It is quite involved, it is very technical, there is a lot of legalistic 

terminology that my memory of the law needs a lot of refreshment to 

digest properly.

I would say generally speaking tha t it would appear the report 

would generate a certain amount of controversy, I am not prepared 

at this time to take a stand one way or the other on the features of 

tha t report, I would certainly give it a lot of study and I would expect 

a lot of technical assistance in evaluating it.

Senator Engle. Mr. Chairman, will you yield there?

The Chairman. Yes.

Senator E ngle. There is one other report; there is one by the 

Oversight Committee of the House Committee on Interstate and 

Foreign Commerce. In other words, we have three reports at the 

present time on this subject matter. We have the Doyle report, we 

have the Landis report, and we have the Oversight Committee report, 

and if you have any spare time, I suggest you just set aside a week or 

two and sit down and read them all, because they will keep you busy 

for quite a while, especially if you tr y to reconcile them. [Laughter.]

The Chairman. May I say, I wanted to ask Mr. Martin, also, we 

will add another report in this very complicated sensitive field of 

transportation, the so-called Weeks report made by the predecessor 

of Governor Hodges which was highly controversial, this committee 

got hold of it and as I recall, we turned it down.

Whether or not you are familiar with tha t one or have any preconceived ideas regarding those recommendations-----

Senator Smathers. Mr. Chairman, would you yield right there?

The C hairman. Yes.

Senator Smathers. I would further like to suggest in the event 

he is not sleeping well at night, tha t you read what I think will be of 

great benefit, the Hoover Commission report, with respect to transportation. It is excellent and I think it would be of value to you.

Mr. Martin. Thank you, Senator Smathers.

Senator McGee. Would the chairman yield at that point?

The Chairman. Yes.

Senator McGee. I would hope we do not throw at the candidate 

any more reports to be read. I think we have a very fine prospect 

and I would hope we would not discourage him before we got him in 

the shop.
NOMINATION S— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 25

The Chairman. What the chairman was trying to say and what we 

were all trying to say in bringing this up, modes of transportation are 

highly competitive in the country. There are some of us who believe 

they should sta y tha t way, some who probably do not, but that is a 

matter, too, for Congress, but tha t what we had hoped for in this 

position, which itself is highly sensitive, is someone who could take 

the office and be as objective as he could possibly be.

These reports in themselves are very controversial. They overlap, 

there are conflicts in some cases, and I did want to bring out to the 

committee that, knowing the nominee as well as I have for these many, 

many years, tha t his background would suggest th at he could look at 

these reports and look at this highly sensitive field in about as objective 

a way as you can get someone to do.

Mr. Martin has no background of any direct association with, say, 

the railroads or the trucks or the inland waterways or aviation itself, 

except he was a naval aviator of some note during the war, and th at is 

why I think his nomination is a very good one because of th at reason.

Mr. Martin. Thank you, Senator.

The Chairman. The Senator from Florida is chairman of the Committee on Surface Transportation who has a lot to do wfith the problems we have in this field.

Senator Smathers. Mr. Chairman, I have nothing to ask Mr. 

Martin except I think I see on your list there the conflict of interest, 

I think as a matter of record we should ask you, I presume—if the 

chairman—-—

The Chairman. Go right ahead.

Senator Smathers. 1 think it would be well to ask you if you own 

any stocks or if you have any financial interest in any of the transportation industry or in any form tha t would in any way be interpreted 

as creating a conflict of interest?

Mr. Martin. No, Senator Smathers, I don’t think I have any 

problem on the conflict. I had one transp ortation stock, it could be 

conceived as a transportation stock, in the General Motors Corp., 

and yesterday I sold all the stock tha t I held, which was not too 

substantial in any event.

The Chairman. Will you file for the committee a statem ent of 

investments and assets for our file such as the other nominees have?

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir.

Senator Smathers. 1 have no other questions, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. The Senator from Kansas who is also a member of 

this subcommittee that has had many, many problems in this field.

Senator Schoeppel. Mr. Martin, I don’t want to discourage you 

but you will have the reading of a lot of reports in your field of activity 

and endeavor.

I was interested in what you had to say about the Landis report. 

Let me ask you this, sir.

I am sure you realize tha t some of these agencies covered by the 

Landis report are creatures of the Congress of the United States. 

Do you have any idea of putting them under any other branch of 

the Government, namely, the executive branch of the Government 

and taking them away from the legislative branch of the Government?

Mr. Martin. No, sir; I have not.

Senator Schoeppel. I note tha t you have had quite a varied business experience but do not claim to be an expert on transportation.
26 NOMINATIONS-—COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

Mr. Martin. No; Senator Sclioeppel, I do n’t claim an y intim ate 

knowledge nor exp ertise regard ing the field of tra ns po rta tio n or any 

pa rti cu lar facet of the field of tra ns po rta tio n.

I think the job as I would in terp re t it is one of admi nis tra tio n. I 

would hope to surro und myself in this post with the most comp ete nt 

staff I could assemble who are exp erts in their lines and I would hope 

th at with the assista nce of this comm itte e and the othe r com mittee s 

of the Congress who tou ch on the tra ns po rta tio n field th at together 

with the ad mi nis tra tio n we could come up with a wor kable, unified, 

coo rdinated tran sp ortatio n policy, tra ns po rta tio n pro gram.

Senator Sch oe pp el. You hav e no dir ect experience, the n, I tak e it, 

or close proximity in an y business way to wh at is k nown as the com ­

muter problem .

You are ope nm ind ed on th at , are y ou not?

Mr. M ar tin . Yes, sir.

Senator Sch oe pp el. I wa nt to ask y ou one other quest ion ------

The Chairma n. I mi gh t po int ou t to the com mittee, again it will 

pro bably end u p w ith a report, bu t las t y ear we agreed to look into this 

com mu ter problem and the comm ittee agreed with Se nator Case and 

Senator W illiams an d the others in the are a, including the Governors, 

Roc kefeller and Ribicoff, to look i nto thi s m at te r and we have a group 

of sort of experts in their field th at are now at work. We expect to 

hav e a report on th at soon.

Th ey na tu ra lly s ta rted in the New York are a where the problem is 

the m ost a cu te and we will hav e th at re ady.

Senator S ch oe pp el. 1 hav e had, and I know other members of the 

com mittee hav e had ma ny lette rs alleg ing— th at is not my language 

nor my position —b ut some of the se peop le who write allege th at the 

In te rs ta te Com merce Com mission is conniving with the railro ads to 

tak e auto hau ling business away from the le gitimate , licensed tru cking 

companies.

Some of the lette rs say th at th e railro ads tra ns po rt autom obiles at 

rat es below their tru e costs bu t th at the savings are not passed on to 

the con sumer.

Again, I do n’t kno w for sure where thi s idea origin ated hu t thes e 

lette rs are com ing in.

I note th at you have been an aut om obile d ealer and I take it a very 

successful one.

Do you hav e an ything you might wa nt to say about th at subje ct?

Mr. Mar tin. I can only say this: Som etim es we rece ived au to ­

mobiles by rail and othe r tim es by tru ck. 1 hav e nev er inq uired or 

understood why the difference.

We hav e no control over it; we have nothing to say about the 

me tho d of the tra ns po rta tio n of the finished vehicles from the Detroit 

are a to Los Angeles or from the assem bly plant to our place of bu sine ss. 

Th at is all handled b y the supplier. It is not our area .

We j us t sim ply h ave the car laid down to us and go from the re with 

it.

I have no pa rtic ua r thou gh ts on the m at te r one way or the other.

Th ere are good fea tures to bo th modes. In the Cadillac business, 

which I am in, we receive our cars generally by rail because they are 

asse mbled and bu ilt in Detroit, and the Oldsm obile line which I also 

han dle, the cars are asse mbled in an asse mbly plan t in Los Angeles, 

so, na turally , they are tru cked to us.
NOMINATIONS— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 27

Now, there have been cases, I know, of where cars, Cadillac cars, 

have been trucked out from Detroit, but I think it is probably due 

to the shortages of rail equipment at that particular time.

I don’t really know for sure, Senator, what their policy on tha t is 

or what formulates it.

Senator Schoeppel. In addition, of course, deliveries by truck 

and by rail, there have been, as we all know, great quantities delivered 

by the water routes, too; correct?

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir.

Senator Schoeppel. Incidentally, what State do you claim as 

your voting residence at the present time, California?

Mr. Martin. The State of California; yes, sir.

Senator Schoeppel. I don’t believe, Mr. Martin, I have any 

further questions. As the chairman has indicated here, I serve, and 

I am delighted to serve, under the fine Senator from Florida who is 

chairman of the Subcommittee on Surface T ransportation. You 

are going to hear a lot from us and we expect to be in conference with 

you many times on some of these problems. We are going to have 

them on our doorstep in relation to the studies tha t have been made, 

the Doyle report, the reports made by your own committee, by your 

own great Department of Commerce, by the Hoover Commission, 

and committees over on the House side, and we probably won’t 

be able to come up with answers on these questions tha t are going to 

satisfy everyone. But certainly it is a knotty problem to get into 

and we want the best background and the best openminded position 

tha t we can possibly take to further the great transportation industry 

of the country. In my judgment we need all modes of transportation, 

and the industry is a great arm of the national defense of our Nation, 

any way we look at it.

Mr. Martin. Thank you, Senator. 1 shall look forward to 

working with you.

The Chairman. The Senator from Texas.

Senator 'Y arborough. Mr. Chairman, I wanted to commend Mr. 

Martin for his very fine record of active service in the Armed Forces 

lor 5 years in World War II. I think the distinguished Senator from 

Wyoming, in naming these requisites for public office, forgot to 

mention Navy service. I know that the graduate of Harvard had a 

record second to the graduates of no other American university in 

World War II, but I never saw one of them in the Army ground 

forces and I see now they were all in the Navy. [Laughter.]

I want to congratulate him for this, being a combat Navy pilot and 

a wonderful 5-year record.

Mr. Martin. Thank you, Senator. I might add that I spent 1 

year in the State of Texas at the Air Station at Corpus Christi.

Senator Yarborough. I was wondering why he looked so well 

qualified, Mr. Chairman. [Laughter.]

Senator McGee. Mr. Chairman, I am compelled to ask for consideration again. Have you ever been to Yellowstone Park?

Mr. Martin. Yes, sir; I have, Senator.

Senator McGee. This is complete.

The Chairman. Now, the Senator from Alaska.

Senator Bartlett. Mr. Martin, have you ever hud any experience 

in or do you have any special familiarity with the maritime industry?

Mr. M artin. No, sir; I don’t think I have any what you would call
28 NOMINATIONS— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT

specialized experience in that field. I might have this, th at as a younger 

man of 16 I went before the mast to the Orient on the President,

Jackson of the American Mail Line and I returned by the President

Tajt. That was a pretty good workout one summer.

Senator Bartlett. What do you mean before the mast?

Mr. Martin. I was a cadet in the merchant marine.

Senator Bartlett. I am sure tha t familiarity will be yours soon in 

any case in the position you are going to assume.

I have been troubled, Mr. Martin, as you have been advised to read 

one report after another. You are going to discover some of those are 

pretty voluminous. I should suggest to you tha t you might organize 

a committee or a commission or a task force or a group and have them 

read the reports and brief them for you and you could, of course, 

draw the position from any of the things. I don’t think the first 4 years 

will give you enough time to read all of these reports. [Laughter.]

I want to say, Mr. Chairman, although I haven’t had the benefit 

of knowing Mr. Martin for 25 years as has the junior Senator from 

Washington, I have known him for 2 or 3 years, and I want to join 

with my colleagues in expressing gratification and pleasure that Mr. 

Martin is going to assume this im portant position in the Department 

of Commerce and I am sure he is going to do a first-class job.

Mr. Martin. Thank you very much, Senator.

The Chairman. I might add this, though, Mr. Martin. I hate to 

keep reminding you of all these problems, but I think maybe about 

the only familiarity you would have woidd be by exposure to it for 

some time, is that one of the real problems of the new State of Alaska 

is a very knotty transportation problem, the question of rates, dual 

rates and other rates, which undoubtedly you will be hearing about 

from the two Senators from Alaska and also the Senators from 

Washington.

Senator Bartlett. Have you been to Alaska?

Mr. Martin. I have been over it in the air, Senator. [Laughter.] 

I didn’t sit down.

Senator Bartlett. Th at isn’t going to satisfy the merchant 

marine or the Surface Transportation Commission. You have to 

get up there otherwise.

Mr. Martin. I will look forward to that very soon, sir.

The Chairman. If there are no other questions-----

Senator McGee. Mr. Chairman, I merely wanted to associate 

myself with the Senator from Kansas on his inquiries and pursuit of 

this m atter of the continuing problem that we have between the railroads and the truckers. In our State, in Wyoming, this is a very 

substantial matter. The railroads have been and are a very substantial p art of our economic life. Truckers are very much so because we 

are on several transcontinental routes, and the present difficulties 

between these two groups in relation to auto transport mav be ever 

more acute in a place like Cheyenne or Little America, which is something of a depot for truck transport, than in some of the more populous 

areas.

I have already discussed with the chairman of my Subcommittee 

on Surface Transportation, Mr. Smathers, and the chairman of the 

Committee, Senator Magnuson, the possibility of our getting out there 

on the spot and letting all sides have their say in this kind of question. 

I think it has to come to a head real soon. I agree with Senator
NOMINATIONS— COMMERCE DEPARTMENT 29

Schoeppel tha t we have room for all of them in here. We want to 

make sure tha t there is no unfair discrimination on the part of anyone of them against the others in their legitimate areas of business, 

and in the city of Cheyenne and right now I have had petition after 

petition and people coming back here in person who happen to own 

rigs th at have been unemployed, the use of these rigs, and parked in a 

tremendous area west of Cheyenne, several hundred of them, at the 

town of scarcely 30,000 people—I will say 40,000 for the benefit of 

the chamber of commerce.

The consequences are immediately felt all up and down Main Street 

in a far larger sphere and I am hoping tha t we can have a real close 

look at this very soon. After you have finished these other 19 reports, 

why, we will add this one to the list.

Mr. Martin. Senator McGee, the guiding principle would be the 

public interest and I am sure tha t will apply to the people of the great 

State of Wyoming. I will be delighted to go there with you any time 

you have any ideas on the subject.

Senator McGee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. If there are no further questions, thank you for 

coming and answering all of the questions of the committee. Many 

members were not here this morning but they have familiarized themselves with your background.

Now, inasmuch as we usually go into executive session on these 

matters to vote on nominations to the Department of Commerce— 

but inasmuch as we w ant to get these men down there on their jobs, 

I think the committee can act right now.

Senator Yarborough. Mr. Chairman, could Mr. Burnstan stand 

up just a minute?

The Chairman. Yes; there he is right there.

Senator Yarborough. I want to see one man in the executive 

branch tha t is as old as I am, Mr. Chairman. [Laughter.]

The Chairman. The clerk will call the roll on the nomination of 

Mr. Gudeman.

(The clerk called the roll and the vote was unanimous.)

The Chairman. Now, the clerk will call the roll on the nomination 

of Mr. Burnstan.

(The clerk called the roll and the vote was unanimous.)

The Chairman. Now the clerk will call the roll on the nomination 

of Mr. Clarence D. Martin, Jr.

(The clerk called the roll and the vote was unanimous.)

The Chairman. All right, all three nominations having been 

voted—we vote to recommend their nominations favorable to the 

Senate by the majority of the committee, we shall do so forthwith.

This is off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

The Chairman. On the record.

We thank you all for coming.

The committee is adjourned.

(Thereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the committee was adjourned.)

X