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.Ar 613 (it\ N12111961 NOMINATIONS

GOVERNMENT

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HEARING

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

-UNITED STATES SENATE

EIGHTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

ON

PAUL H. NITZE—Assistant Secretary of Defense-designate

(International Security Affairs)

CHARLES J. HITCH—Assistant Secretary of Defense-designate

(Comptroller)

CYRUS R. VANCE—General Counsel-designate

for Department of Defense

ARTHUR SYLVESTER—Assistant Secretary of Defense-designate

(Public Affairs)

THOMAS D. MORRIS—Assistant Secretary of Defense-designate

(Supply and Logistics)

JANUARY 18, 1961 0

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64588 WASHINGTON : 1961
•

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

RICHARD B. RUSSELL, Georgia, Chairman

HARRY FLOOD BYRD, Virginia

JOHN STENNIS, Mississippi

STUART SYMINGTON, Missouri

HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington

SAM J. ERVIN, Jr., North Carolina

STROM THURMOND, South Carolina

CLAIR ENGLE, California

E. L. BARTLETT, Alaska

HOWARD W. CANNON, Nevada

ROBERT C. BYRD, West Virginia

HARRY L. WINGATE., Jr., Chief Clerk

II

STYLES BRIDGES, New Hampshire

LEVERETT SALTONSTALL, Massachusetts

MARGARET CHASE SMITH, Maine

FRANCIS CASE, South Dakota

PRESCOTT BUSH, Connecticut

J. GLENN BEALL, Maryland
1

CONTENTS

Statements of—

Hitch, Charles J., nominee-designate for Assistant Secretary of Page

Defense (Comptroller) 13

Morris, Thomas D., nominee-designate for Assistant Secretary of

Defense (Supply and Logistics) 26

Nitze, Paul H., nominee-designate for Assistant Secretary of Defense

(International Security Affairs) 2

Sylvester, Arthur, nominee-designate for Assistant Secretary of

Defense (Public Affairs) 22

Vance, Cyrus R., nominee-designate for General Counsel for Department of Defense 20

III

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NOMINATIONS

WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 18, 1961

U.S. SENATE,

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES,

Washington, D.0 .

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 11 a.m., in the caucus

room, Old Senate Office Building, Senator Richard B. Russell (chairman) presiding.

Present: Senators Russell, Stennis, Symington, Jackson, Ervin,

Thurmond, Cannon, Bridges, Saltonstall, Smith, and Beall.

Also present: 'William H. Darden, of the committee staff; Harry L.

Wingate, Jr., chief clerk; T. Edward Braswell, Gordon Nease, of the

committee staff; and Herbert S. Atkinson, assistant chief clerk.

Chairman RUSSELL. The committee will come to order.

We have a number of other designees here this morning. So far

as I know, no order of precedence has been established by the President or the Department of Defense for these gentlemen. I suppose

we should adopt the rule of the barbershop, and hear them in the

order in which their selection was announced by the President.

I believe that the first announcement was made with respect to Mr.

Paul H. Nitze, who will be designated Assistant Secretary of Defense

for International Security Affairs.

Mr. NITZE. Mr. Chairman 

Chairman RUSSELL. You may proceed to give us a statement as to

your background, Mr. Nitze, and anything you think would be of

interest to the committee.

(The biographical sketch of Paul Henry Nitze is as follows:)

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF PAUL HENRY NITZE

Present position: President, Foreign Service Educational Foundation, Washington, D.C., ; associate of the Washington Center of Foreign Policy Research of

the School of Advanced International Studies, the Johns Hopkins University,

Washington, D.C.

Date of birth: January 16,1907.

Schools: Harvard University, 1928, B.A. cum laude.

Career highlights:

1929-37: Dillon, Read & Co., investment bankers, New York.

1938-39: President, P. H. Nitze & Co., Inc.

1939-40: Vice president, Dillon, Read & Co., New York.

1941-42: Financial Director, Office of the Coordinator of Inter-American

Affairs.

1942-43: Chief, Metals and Minerals Branch, Board of Economic Warfare.

1943-44: Director, Foreign Procurement and Development Branch, Foreign Economic Administration.

1944-46: Vice Chairman, U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey.

1946-48: Deputy Director, Office of International Trade Policy, Department of State.

1
2 NOMINATIONS

1948-49: Deputy to the Assistant Secretary of State for Economic Affairs.

1949 (August) : Deputy Director, Policy Planning Staff, Department of

State.

1950-53: Director, Policy Planning Staff, Department of State.

1953-present: President, Foreign Service Education Foundation.

Awards and decorations: Medal for Merit.

STATEMENT OF PAUL HENRY NITZE, NOMINEE-DESIGNATE FOR

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR INTERNATIONAL

SECURITY AFFAIRS

Mr. NITZE. Mr. Chairman, I was born in Amherst, Mass., where my

father was a professor at Amherst College. I was brought up in

schools in Chicago and Lakeville, Conn., and then went to Harvard

University.

I started my business life as a cost accountant with the Container

Corp. of America, in Philadelphia.

I then became an employee of Dillon, Read & Co. in 1929, and continued with them until 1937.

Shortly thereafter I started a firm of my own, Paul H. Nitze & Co.

In 1939, I returned to Dillon, Read & Co. as a partner and vice

president, until 1941.

In 1940, I was asked to come down to Washington by Mr. Forrestal,

when he was an assistant to the President, before he became Secretary of the Navy. I was also asked to come down as a consultant to

General Marshall and General Hershey, in connection with the Draft

Act legislation in 1940.

I subsequently came down permanently to Washington as Financial

Director of the Office of the Coordinator of Inter-American Affairs,

and then from there joined the Economic Warfare Board, and was

in charge of the procurement of strategic materials in the rest of the

world. This was then changed to the Foreign Economic Administration, when it was merged with the Lend Lease Administration,

and I served as the Director of the Foreign Procurement and Development Branch.

In 1944, I was asked to be a Director and then Vice Chairman of

the U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey, which conducted an investigation

of the effectiveness of airpower, first in the European theater and then

in the Pacific theater.

In 1946, I joined the State Department, first as Deputy Director,

Office of International Trade Policy, and then became Deputy to the

Assistant Secretary of State for Economic Affairs, then Deputy Director of the Policy Planning Staff, and from 1950 to 1953, I served as

Director of the Policy Planning Staff in the State Department.

Since that time, I have been associated with the School of Advanced International Studies here in Washington, which is now part

of Johns Hopkins University.

And I have been president of the Foreign Services Educational

Foundation, which is associated with that school, and a trustee of

Johns Hopkins University.

I have also served as a consultant to a number of operations connected with the defense effort—the Gaither Committee, the 'Weapons Systems Evaluation Group, the Applied Physics Laboratory, and

various other things of that kind.
NOMINATIONS 3

I am now a resident of the State of Maryland, Charles County, and

have a cattle and tobacco farm in Charles County.

During the years, I have accumulated a number of financial interests. I have submitted a complete list of those interests.

The office for which I am being considered is that of Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security Affairs. As I understand it, that office has no responsibility for contracting or for procurement, with the exception of certain research and development contracts in Europe which are supervised by the Director of Research

and Engineering. So I do not see that conflict of interest in the

usual technical sense could arise.

Nevertheless, I have gone over the list of my securities. I have

consulted with Mr. Darden. I have sold some of the securities, as is

outlined in the statement that I have submitted, and I propose to dispose or in part to donate to charity others.

And I have also expressed my willingness to be guided by any further suggestions the committee might make.

I have resigned all my—the few directorships which I have had in

recent years, with one exception, and that is the Aspen Skiing Corp.,

which I founded, and of which I am chairman of the board of directors. But I see no possibility of conflict between that business and

the defense business.

Thank you,Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. What is your purpose with respect to length

of service, Mr. Nitze ?

Mr. NITZE. I would propose to- serve as long as the President and

the Secretary of Defense wished me to serve, and as long as I felt

that I could be effective.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Bridges?

Senator BRIDGES. Mr. Nitze what is your conception of your duties

as the Assistant Secretary? A lot of your background has been with

the State Department, and now you are going to be operating with

the military.

Mr. NITZE. Well, my concept is that I would be guided by the

policy and the views laid down by the Secretary of Defense. And I

would imagine the Secretary of Defense, in turn, would take seriously into account the views of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the

services.

Senator BRIDGES. Now, directing your attention to research projects

abroad and having in mind that we spend a great deal of money

overseas, what are your thoughts in this connection? Are you going

to have something to say about awarding such contracts? Are you

going to have something to say about where the money is to be spent?

Mr. NITZE. As I understand it, the actual contracting abroad, as

well as at home, is done by the services. It is quite correct that the

schedule of requirements and the general outline of the program

would flow up through the Director of the military assistance program. I would be in that chain of responsibility.

Senator BRIDGES. Yes. But would you not feel, then, that you

would have the final passing on the contracts as awarded by the

services—in other words, could the Navy or the Air Force or the

Army award a certain project to a certain country without your

approval?
4 NOMINATIONS

Mr. NITZE. I do not think—this—I have not been in the job, Mr.

Senator.

Senator BRIDGES. I realize that. I raise this point because we are

constantly being questioned about foreign competition with domestic

industries. Why was this contract awarded? Why was this contract

not awarded here in this country? Why does it go to some nation

that may in theory be an ally of ours, but in actual practice would be

otherwise? That is why I am trying to establish the chain of authority, because we will be calling upon you, or calling you before us from

time to time.

I am not trying to put you on the spot. I am trying to find out

what your job entails, what your conception of the position is.

Mr. NITZE. Well, as I was trying to say, I am not informed in detail

as to exactly how this works. My concept of it is, however, that the

detailed contracting is done by the services, but that that is pursuant

to a program which has been worked out country by country, region

by region, surveyed and coordinated between various parts of the

Defense Establishment, and with other parts of the Government at

times. But that the actual contracting then pursuant to those programs is done by the services.

Senator BRIDGES. Assuming for a moment that a country like Yugoslavia comes into the picture, or some other country that twists back

and forth between being theoretically friendly with the West one day

and the next day allying itself completely with the countries in the

Soviet orbit, would you have a voice in any contracts between the

military and such a country?

Mr. NITZE. I think I would have a voice in that decision.

Senator BRIDGES. In the event a country is competing with a hardpressed domestic industry, and the question is raised of awarding a

contract abroad which might aggravate the situation here, would you

have a voice in the decision?

Mr. NITZE. I think I would have a voice in that decision.

Senator BRIDGES. But who would make the final decision?

Mr. NITZE. I think the final responsibility would be that of the

Secretary of Defense.

Senator BRIDGES. But would it come before you for your recommendation?

Mr. NITZE. I think it would.

Senator BRIDGES. Well, I would think, then, that you are going to

play a very important role in such matters, and you will be a man

we will want to contact concerning these problems which are vital,

and which some of us feel very strongly about. This is not political.

It concerns the overall policy of our country in conducting its foreign relations, and also the stability of our domestic economy.

Mr. NITZE. Correa, Sir.

Senator BRIDGES. And you would feel a definite obligation to discuss

these matters frankly with this committee, and consider any objections which might be raised?

Mr. NITZE. Yes, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Stennis?

Senator STENNIs. Mr. Chairman, I don't have any particular questions. Frankly, I have not had a chance to learn too much about

the duties that you will have, Mr. Nitze, although I realize their
NOMINATIONS 5

great importance. Is it correct that you would be the Department

of Defense's main counselor and representative with the (1A?

Mr. NITZE. I don't think I would be the main one. But I would

have quite a lot to do with the CIA.

Senator STENNIS. Then you will be the representative with reference to other nations on military plans and weapons coordination

and related matters, is that correct?

Mr. NITZE. That is correct.

Senator STENNIS. I know we have some agreement with Canada

about the Bomarc. That is one of the missiles, you know. You

would come in on a matter of that kind?

Mr. NITZE. That is correct, as I understand it.

Senator STENNIS. And from there on you would go to more and

more important matters.

Mr. NITZE. Yes, sir.

Senator STENNIS. Well, you have a very impressive background,

sir, and I am glad of the chance to see you where you are.

Mr. NrrzE. Thank you, Mr. Senator.

Chairman RUSSELL. One of your primary responsibilities would

be handling the military aspects of the mutual security program?

Mr. NITZE. That is correct.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Saltonstall ?

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman thank you.

Mr. Nitze, the chairman just asked the question that I had in mind

to ask.

Now, your predecessors in office have, from the point of view of

the Congress, confined their activities pretty much to the mutual

security program. Now, would you be the executive in charge of

the mutual security program as you know it?

Mr. Nrrzz. General Palmer is the Director of the mutual security

program, and General Palmer, as I understand it, would report to

me as Assistant Secretary of Defense for International Security

Affairs. He would be one of four deputies. One deputy is in charge

of relations with the National Security Council, the Operations Coordinating Board, and related matters of that kind. Another deputy

would be General Palmer, who is Director of the military assistance

program. Another is General Dabney, who is in charge of disarmament work in the Pentagon. And the fourth is in charge of regional

affairs.

Senator SALTONSTALL. But all those deputies would be under your

guidance, as the Assistant Secretary in charge of that operation?

Mr. NITZE. That is correct.

Senator SALTONSTALL. So from the point of view of the Congress,

on questions of mutual security, from the defense point of view, our

contact would be directly with you? Our top contact?

Mr. NITZE. I think the top contact, yes. I think that in the past the

Director of the military assistance program has himself testified before this committee.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Would you be the principal contact of the

Defense Department with the State Department for correlation of

activities in regard to future planning and so on, and polic' our

security?

Mr. NrrzE. I think that is correct, sir.

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Senator SALTONSTALL. So that you would be the Secretary of De- fense's advocate, so to speak, for any problems that concerned the State Department and the Defense Department?

Mr. NITZE. That is correct.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And do you conceive your position to be one of planning, creating policies for our future security, rather than any administrative jobs that might come along with our present security operations?

Mr. NITZE. Well, I would conceive of the job being in a large degree administrative. In other words, of transmitting to the State

Department views which are generated in the Joint Chiefs of Staff,

the Joint Staff, and the services. I would think that in part, however, it would have a planning and policy creation function as well.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Well, then, you would not consider the policy planning function as the greater part of your duties. I ask that question because from reading the newspapers, and from knowledge

of your activities and your studies in the past, that what you would be most interested in and would take most part in would be the policy planning for the future, rather than any administrative questions of the present. Am I incorrect in that?

Mr. NITZE. Well, I think the responsibilities of the office do involve

a great share of administrative responsibility.

Senator SALTONSTALL. But you would believe that it was part of

your duty to submit to the Secretary of Defense any thoughts that

you might have, or any papers that you might write concerning the

future policies of our Defense Department?

Mr. NITZE. That is correct.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And on the question of disarmament, is that

within your function, also?

Mr. NITZE. That is within my function, Senator.

Senator SALTONSTALL. To that as I conceive it—well, Senator

Bridges brings up the question, what is your relation between—what

is the relationship between you and Mr. McCloy?

Mr. NITZE. My responsibilities will involve participation in the

preparation of a Defense position.

Mr. McCloy, as I understand it, is adviser to the President with

respect to the overall problem of disarmament policy. The State

Department, also, I imagine, will have views which will be submitted

to Mr. McCloy.

Senator SALTONSTALL. In other words, if Mr. McCloy submits, we

will say, a paper on what he believes would be 'a, proper step for us

to take toward disarmament, that paper would come to you as the

Assistant Secretary of Defense on military planning, to give your

advice to the Secretary of Defense as to what position the Defense

Department should take on that paper of disarmament?

Mr. NrrzE. That is correct. I would expect that the paper would

be coordinated with the Joint Staff, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, so that

the military view on the paper would be coordinated.

Senator SALTONSTALL. So that you would coordinate the Defense

Department with the Department of State and with the President's

office with relation to disarmament, or Defense policies, not today,

so to speak, but for tomorrow and the next day?

Mr. NITZE. That is correct, sir.
NOMINATIONS 7

Senator SALTONSTALL. And is that not a broadening of the function

of the Assistant Secretary on International Security over what it has

been for the last 7 or 8 years?

Mr. NrrzE. I believe Mr. Irwin's responsibilities have been as you

have described them, Mr. Senator.

Senator SALTONSTALL. So that you would follow along with what

Mr. Irwin has done, and create or suggest policies with relation to

international questions as to the future?

Mr. NITZE. Yes, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. You would build on what the present administration has done in that regard?

Mr. NITZE. That is correct, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Now, may I ask you just a personal question.

On your securities, you have stated here that you would be glad to

follow any suggestions that the committe might make. With the

stocks that you have sold and the stocks that you intend to sell—are

there any left in your portfolio that you might consider did any

business with the Government?

Mr. NITZE. I have asked the General Counsel's office of the Department of Defense to get up a schedule which shows what business they

have done, and I could give that to the committee. There are a few

additional securities held by me where those companies do do a

small percentage of their business with the Defense Establishment.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Now, as one member of this committee, I always felt that Mr. Robert Lovett had—which he volunteered to do—

had a very happy solution of this difficult personal problem. He

submitted to the committee, if my memory is correct, annually any

change in securities that he had made, so that if the committee cares

to go into your changes of investments, we would have the opportunity

to do so, or the knowledge with which to do so. Are you agreeable

to doing that?

Mr. NITZE. I am agreeable to so doing.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you, sir, very much.

Mr. NITZE. Thank you, Mr. Senator.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Symington?

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, I have known Mr. Nitze for

many years, and I believe the President of the new administration is

very fortunate to have him in this position.

As the chairman and some of the members of the committee know,

I have been at some time apprehensive about the interests of the

country, and in any administration and the Congress, on the question

of arms control, which to my mind is a better way of expressing it

than the word disarmament. Certainly arms control is a prerequisite

of anything that would be acceptable from the standpoint of disarmament.

Mr. Nitze, in my opinion, is one of the foremost authorities in the

world on the present so-called cold war, protracted conflict. And in

his position in the Department of Defense with his experience in the

State Department, I would imagine that Mr. McCloy and all othezs,

including the Secretaries of State and Defense, would be most interested in his thoughts on these matters, which are becoming ever

more pressing from the standpoint of national security.
S NOMINATIONS

There has been considerable effort, Mr. Nitze, to find out this morn- ing on the part of the committee just what your position is. I don't

want to belabor it. But I would like to ask also if in the field in which

you are one of the preeminent authorities, namely arms control, if it is not your understanding that would be part of the scope in your

position with respect to the Defense Department, is that correct?

Mr. NITZE. That is correct.

Senator SYlVIINGTON. And if the State Department, or when the

State Department becomes interested in the aspects of any arms con- trol potential agreement, they would discuss it naturally with the

Department of Defense. And, therefore, at least to some extent you will be a bridge more nearly than a liaison, because of your past

experience between the two departments in this all-important field,

is that correct?

Mr. NITZE. That is correct, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. That is the way I read the statement made by President-elect Kennedy at the time of your appointment.

I would like to congratulate you for accepting this position, congratulate the Government for having offered it to you. And I would

hope that if there is any possible way I can be of service to you, as a

member of this committee and the Foreign Relations Committee, that

you will give me that opportunity.

Mr. Chairman, I look forward to voting to confirm this very able

public servant.

Mr. NITZE. Thank you, Mr. Senator.

Senator SMITH. I have no questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Jackson?

Senator JACKSON. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to say for the benefit of my colleagues that I have known Mr. Nitze for a long time, and few people come to the Department of Defense with the long and distinguished background of Mr. Nitze. He has been in preparation

for this job for many, many years. He was outstandingly successful in business. Having done well in the business world, he determined

to engage in public service.

I think, Mr. Chairman, he is an example of the kind of people that

we need to get into Government. I think it is fortunate that he is in a position to have spent some years studying the various problems,

not in just the area of the State Department, but in the broad area of national security.

Many people come well prepared in the field of foreign relations,

and many people come well prepared in the field of defense. It so

happens that Mr. Nitze is well prepared in all of these areas.

For the past several years, he has been the president of the Foreign

Service Educational Foundation. He has spent day after day after

day over the past many years dealing with all these problems in the

broad area of national security.

I just want to say that I know of few people, with one exception.

Mr. Lovett, who is eminently qualified to step into an important position in the Department of Defense or the Department of State.

This, to me, is the new kind of public servant that we need if we are

going to deal properly with the multitude of challenges that come

from both the military and the political, economic, psychological, so

on, problems of this world.
NOMINATIONS 9

I couldn't commend him more highly to the committee, and I base

that on my own personal knowledge of his service.

Chairman RussELL. Senator Thurmond?

Senator THURMOND. Mr. Chairman, I have heard very nice things

about Mr. Nitze, and I am sure he will fulfill the trust imposed on

him here in a very fine manner. I congratulate him and the Secretary

of Defense upon his nomination.

Senator CANNON. Mr. Chairman, I have no questions.

I just want to congratulate Mr. Nitze on his selection and acceptance

of this important position.

Chairman RUSSELL. I have one or two questions, Mr. Nitze. I

thought perhaps some members of the committee would ask these.

You are undoubtedly familiar with the recent regulations intended

to restrict the award of some contracts to domestic companies, generated, I suppose, by the outflow of gold to Europe. Do you think

that it is wise to do away with the offshore procurement program

that we have had, in the light of the drain on our gold resources, or

what is your view? Do you think that order ought to be canceled

or modified?

Mr. NITZE. Mr. Chairman, I haven't had a chance yet to go into

this matter in detail. I have worked closely with Mr. Dillon and

with Secretary Anderson on the question of our gold drain and our

balance-of-payments problem. I consider this to be a very serious

problem. On the other hand, it would be my offhand view that it

would be wrong to consider any blanket termination of offshore procurement, because I think that some of those items may be more

important from the security standpoint than perhaps the dollars

that would be saved by a blanket termination.

Chairman RUSSELL. If I understand the offshore procurement

program, it does not terminate whether you are going to have that

item, it just determines where it will be produced—whether it will be

produced in one of the countries associated with us, or produced in

this country. It doesn't go to the question of whether you are going

to have the item. It is already agreed and the Congress has authorized the items that are involved. But it is a question of where the

contracts are to be fulfilled.

Am I in error about that?

Mr. NITZE. I am not in a position really to give you a clear answer on it, Mr. Chairman. I just don't know the facts. I had thought

that some of the items were available only abroad, but I may be wrong

on that.

Chairman RUSSET.Ti. That may be so in a very limited number of

cases. But some of the larger items of Offshore procurement have been

ships of a certain type—minesweepers. Others have been aircraft.

We have had any number of aircraft built on the model of our F-38

and others and these have been procured by contract in countries associated with us in NATO. The larger items may involve greater

sums of money. They can be built in this country or practically any

of our major associates overseas.

Mr. NITZE. I would want to be better informed on this, Mr. Chairman, before expressing a view.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman, would you yield on that

point?
10 NOMINATIONS

Chairman RUSSELL. Yes.

Senator SALTONSTALL. It is my understanding, Mr. Nitze—it is my

memory, rather—from reading a memorandum from Assistant Secretary Perkins McGuire, that they have brought back approximately

$65 million worth of contracts, which could increase the cost to the

Defense Department on those particular contracts by approximately,

25 percent. My question would be: Would that come within your jurisdiction in the future?

Mr. NITZE. I would imagine that this would come within my shop,

that they would have a view on it and would express that view. I

am not quite sure where the final determination would be made, short

of the Secretary of Defense.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Your recommendation in it would be very persuasive. That is your job. That is what you are appointed to study

and recommend.

Mr. NITZE. That is right.

Chairman RUSSELL. I don't know just on what level the final determination will be made, whether it would be made by the Secretary of Defense or by the Secretary of State. From past experience,

it would be determined in the State Department. Personally, I

would hope that the Department of Defense would assert more authority in those determinations than they have in the past. They

have been very largely left to the Department of State. You have

no very firm views at this time on the question of whether we should

decrease or reduce our offshore procuremnt or hold it at about the

present level?

Mr. NITZE. I do not have firm views. I do have firm views as to the

seriousness of our gold and dollar balance-of-payments problem. I

have not the detailed knowledge to express a firm view on the most

intelligent recommendation to make as to how this should be handled.

Chairman RUSSELL. I have read with great interest the views of

some of the gentlemen who manage large financial institutions in New

York, that it doesn't matter whether we have any gold or not. I take

it from what you say that you do not subscribe to that philosophy.

Mr. NITZE. I do not, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. You think it is desirable to have a gold reserve?

Mr. NITZE. I do, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. I am very happy to hear that. I cannot qualify as an expert in those things, but I know that through the ages

mankind has attached considerable importance to the rare metals of

one kind or another.

Do you have any predetermined views, Mr. Nitze, as to whether we

should increase our military assistance program to our associates overseas, or whether we should decrease it, or hold it about the same level?

Have you thought about it to the extent that you could give the committee any idea of your views on that subject?

Mr. NITZE. No. On this, I have not had time to be exposed to all

the studies that have gone on within the executive branch of the Government. It would seem to me there are a lot of facts and considerations which have to be weighed before one can come to a conclusion as

to which things are more important. Certainly there are national security interests involved in the level of our military assistance pro-
NOMINATIONS 11

grams in certain countries. And it would seem to me that those considerations may outweigh in a number of instances the straight considerations of dollars and cents.

On the other hand, the dollars and cents considerations are very

important, too. And this is a very difficult balance to arrive at, as to

where one comes to a correct balancing of the national security problems involved, and the dollars and cents restraints under which one

must operate.

Chairman RUSSELL. I was interested in the questions asked you

about your relationship to the policies of disarmament, or as Senator

Symington calls it, arms control.

Do you consider it desirable for this country to undertake to reduce

armaments or further control certain types of arms by a matter of

example, setting the example, and unilaterally reducing or controlling

arms of any kind?

Mr. NITZE. This has not in the past seemed to me to be a wise course.

Chairman RUSSELL. Pardon?

Mr. NITZE. This has not in the past seemed to me to be a wise course.

Chairman RUSSELL. You have no purpose in assuming this office in

recommending such a policy?

Mr. NITZE. No.

Chairman RUSSELL. Any further questions?

Senator BRIDGES. Yes.

On the question of disarmament, are you going to stand for a complete, airtight inspection, and complete protection of our national interest and security?

Give us a little of your philosophy in this respect, if you will, please.

You can do that without pinning yourself down to definite particular

items.

Mr. NITZE. One thing seems to me to be crystal clear, and that is

that our national interest comes first. Now, how one weighs the various

risks that the United States faces, and where in detail one is entitled

to take the lesser risk in order to_avoid the greater risk, that I am not

prepared to express a view on now. This is a very complicated problem which I think requires completely honest, objective analysis before

one wants to freeze a position.

Senator BRIDGES. Well, of course, anybody who is American would

say that we should protect our national interests and that our national

security should come first. I think we could well subscribe to that, as

any patriotic American should.

But there are a great many fears in this country today, and fears

around the world concerning some of the statements which have been

made, some of the policies which have been executed here in the past.

Before you make any major moves in this direction, are you going to

discuss them with these committees of Congress, or are we going to

read an announcement some day in the paper that thus-and-so been

done?

Mr. NITZE. I should expect that we would be in the closest consultation with this committee.

Senator JACKSON. Would the Senator yield?

I just want to say, having known Mr. Nitze and his views on the

matters relating to the broad area of national security, that no one

has been more outspoken about building up our defenses, and no one
12 NOMINATIONS

has been more outspoken about the need for, if you are going to have

some kind of arms control, the system that will be reasonably foolproof. He it not naive in this area, and his position has been a hard,

tough one. I can say that, based upon personal knowledge and articles

and speeches, he has made his position, I think, quite clear.

Senator BRIDGES. I am glad. I want to see a foolproof system developed, if we are going to proceed in that direction. I am glad to

hear you say that you will work in close cooperation and coordination

with this committee in advancing those steps, because I think it is

-essential.

Chairman RUSSELL. Any further questions ?

If not, we thank you, Mr. Nitze, for your interesting statement to

the committee.

(The following letter was subsequently received from Mr. Nitze

and is made a part of this record:)

WASHINGTON, D.C., January 18, 1961.

Hon. RICHARD B. RUSSF.Lr„

Chairman, Armed Services Committee,

U.S. Senate.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: Immediately after leaving the hearing before your

committee this morning, it occurred to me that I had forgotten to mention one

matter which it had been my intention to include in my statement.

In my preliminary review of my financial situation with Mr. Darden, I had

told him that I was the life beneficiary of a trust fluid created by my father

over 25 years ago. This trust fund is administered by the First National Bank

of Chicago. I have no power of control over the investments in this account.

It is possible, however, that the bank might itself decide to eliminate from

the account any holdings deemed inconsistent with the Government position

held by me. I receive $90 a month from this fund, enclose the last statement

I have received from the bank concerning the securities held in this account.

I request that this statement be included in the record of the hearing.

Respectfully submitted.

Sincerely yours,

PAUL H. NITZE.

Senator RUSSELL. I believe the next announcement was with regard

to Mr. Charles J. Hitch, to be Assistant Secretary of Defense (Comptroller).

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, it is with great pride that

the people of Missouri present for consideration to this committee,

through the new administration, the record of Mr. Charles Hitch.

Mr. Hitch was born in Boonville, Mo. The people of his town

respect him. Some of them are some of my closest friends. His record speaks for itself.

It is a privilege to bid him good morning this morning, and to present to the committee a man who, in my opinion, is extraordinarily

well qualified to follow in the steps of Comptroller McNeil, and those

others who have handled this all important position in the past.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Thank you, Senator Symington.

All right, Mr. Hitch, you may proceed to give us your statement.

(The biographical sketch of Charles J. Hitch is as follows:)

CHARLES J. HITCH

Charles J. Hitch was born in Boonville, Mo. on January 9, 1910. He received

his early education in the public schools of Boonville and at Kemper Military

School in Boonville where he was graduated from junior college in 1929. He

received his bachelor of arts degree from the University of Arizona in 1931.
NOMINATIONS 13

After 1 year of graduate study at Harvard, he went to Oxford on a Rhodes

scholarship and received his masters degree from Oxford. He was elected a

Fellow of Queens College, Oxford in 1935.

During the war he served on Mr. Averell Harriman's first lend-lease mission

in London 1941-42 and then in the War Production Board 1942-43 where he

assisted in the development of the controlled materials plan. He was inducted

into the U.S. Army in May 1943, and later assigned to the Office of Strategic

Services. In 1945-46, after his discharge from the Army as a first lieutenant, he

was Chief of the Stabilization Controls Division of the Office of War Mobilization

and Reconversion.

In 1948 he accepted a position with the Rand Corp., Santa Monica, Calif.,

where he organized and headed the economics division. In 1960 he became chairman of the Rand Research Council, responsible for planning and directing the

research of the corporation. The Rand Corp. is a nonprofit corporation engaged

in research for the Mr Force, the Office of the Secretary of Defense, the Atomic

Energy Commission, and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.

He has been active in a large number of professional organizations, serving

as president of the Operations Research Society of America 1959-60. He is a

member of the Research Advisory Board of the Committee for Economic Development, of the Executive Committee of the Universities National Bureau Committee for Economic Research, and of the National Security Policy Committee of the

Social Science Research Council. He is a member of the American Economic

Association and of the Council on Economic Relations. He has written two

books: "America's Economic Strength," published by the Clarendon Press in

1941, and (with Roland N. McKean) "The Economics of Defense in the Nuclear

Age"

'

Harvard University Press, 1960.

11942 11 he married Nancy Winslow Squire. There is one child, Caroline Winslow, oorn N ovember 15, 1959. His home is in Pacific Palisades, Calif.

STATEMENT OF CHARLES J. HITCH, NOMINEE-DESIGNATE FOR

COMPTROLLER FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

Mr. HITCH. Mr. Chairman, distinguished members of the committee, I deeply appreciate Senator Symington's introduction.

I was indeed born in Boonville, Mo., in 1910, and lived there for

the first 19 years of my life. I attended the Kemper Military School

in Boonville, which was headed at the time by my father.

I then went to the University of Arizona, from which I received

my bachelor's degree. I spent 1 year at Harvard in graduate

study in economics, and then went as a Rhodes scholar to Oxford

University.

After completing my study at Oxford, I was elected a fellow and

tutor in economics at one of the Oxford colleges, and remained there

until the war.

I left in June of 1941, when I was requested by Mr. Averell Harriman to join his first lend-lease mission in London, and I spent a year

with him there. I then transferred to the War Production Board,

which was being set up here, and spent a year at the Board, helping

to develop the control plans for steel, copper, and aluminum.

I was inducted into the U.S. Army in May 1943. I was later assigned to the Office of Strategic Services. I spent sometime first in

England, and later in the Pentagon—my only tour of duty in the

Pentagon—working on targets, air targets, first in Germany and

then in Japan.

In 1945, I was released from the service at the request of Judge

Vinson to join him in the Office of Reconversion, and was one of

his division chiefs in the Office of Reconversion.
14 NOMINATIONS

• In 1948, I accepted a position at the Rand Corp, in Santa Monica, Calif., which at that time consisted entirely of physical scientists,

to organize and head an economics division in the corporation. I

remained in that job for 12 years, and this past year was appointed chairman of a research council which directs the research of the whole corporation. The Rand Corp. is engaged in national security research, primarily for the Air Force, but also for the Office of the

Secretary of Defense, for the Atomic Energy Commission, and for the National Space Administration.

I have worked there the last 13 years on military problems, and particularly on their economic aspects.

I have been very active in a number of professional organizations.

I have been president of the Operations Research Society of America. I have been active in the Committee for Economic Development, in the National Bureau of Economic Research, in the Social Science Research Council, in the American Economic Association, and the Council on Foreign Relations.

Last year I completed a book on the economics of defense in the nuclear age, which is now being used in the service academies.

I was married in 1942 to Nancy Winslow Squire a native of Wash- ington State, whom I met in Washington, D.C. 

Squire,

have one child, named Caroline, who is 1 year old. We live in Pacific Palisades, Calif.

I have submitted to the committee a complete statement of my financial position. I have disposed of all my securities with the exception of the two listed here. The first of these, I am quite clear, raises no problems of conflict of interest. The second, the Dallas oil

company shares, I have tried to dispose of and have not been able to dispose of. I think that they, too, represent no conflict of interest. This is a small venture of a personal friend of mine who persuaded

me to invest in it. It has not been a very successful investment. I

have entered a nominal value for these shares, but I can find no buyer.

The company is interested solely in exploration and production.

I have no business connections at present with industrial or com- mercial companies. I have not yet resigned as a trustee of the Kemper Military School. This is a not-for-profit independent school with which my family has been associated for nearly a hundred years.

I would be willing to resign, but I would like to retain my connection with the school, if it is possible, in the view of the committee.

Chairman RUSSELL. I did not understand that last statement about the school, Mr. Hitch.

Mr. Hrrcx. Yes, sir. I am a member of the board of trustees of the school.

Chairman RUSSELL. What kind of school is it?

Mr. HITCH. It is a not-for-profit independent school. It is, however, a military school, with an ROTC unit, and receives a certain

amount of sup-Port, therefore, from the Department of Defense.

Chairman RUSSELL. Even though you might get quite a nice

trustee's fee for attending meetings of the trustee

Mr. HITCH. No, sir; we draw no fees for attending meetings.

Chairman RUSSELL. I think I can assure you. the committee will not

look with disfavor upon that public service, Mr. Hitch.
NOMINATIONS 15

Mr. Hum. Thank you.

Chairman RUSSELL. Give us a brief statement of your concept of

the duties of the Office to which you will be nominated, Mr. Hitch.

Mr. HITCH. Well, sir, as I see it, the duties of the Office of the

Comptroller in the Department of Defense are to make sure to the

limit of his ability that we get the most out of the defense dollar,

that we use budgetary procedures, auditing procedures, and other

financial management procedures to make sure that whatever the

amount of the budget is that is proposed by the President and voted

by the Congress that we get as much national security as we possibly

can.

Chairman RUSSELL. Have you had any direct budgetary experience?

Mr. HITCH. No, sir I have not.

Chairman RUSSELL. You have a primary responsibility to see that

all the funds are expended in accordance with law enacted by the

Congress.

Mr. Hrrcx. Yes, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Bridges?

Senator BRDX4ES. With the greatest amount of money spent by this

country earmarked for the Defense Department, don't you think it is

peculiar that a man like yourself, who has no budgetary experience whatsoever, should be placed in the position of Defense Department Comptroller, handling expenditure of over half the funds spent

by the whole U.S. Government?

Mr. HITCH. This concerned me, Senator. And before accepting

this job, I talked first with Mr. McNeil, and then with Mr. McNamara,

who, as you know, is a professional in this field. They both convinced me that what is really needed in this job is leadership and

policy guidance, and that I do have the major qualifications for this

job, but that I can buttress myself as necessary with the people who

do have the budgetary experience.

I was satisfied on this point, and decided to accept.

Senator BRIDGES. And so that you have no question now but what

you could handle the job, even though you are handling more money

than any department in our Government, and probably any government in the world—that you have no budget experience? I just can't

see it. I am not questioning your ability in some fields. But it seems

very peculiar to me that this new administration should pick out a

man like yourself, with no experience and background, for this job.

I am the ranking Republican on the Appropriations Committee of the

U.S. Senate. I have to deal with these problems constantly. You

would be in constant touch with me and with that committee. And I

hope, if you are confirmed, that you will do an excellent job. But

there must have been some soul searching or something in order to

have you, a person with no experience in that line, in such a responsible job.

Mr. HITCH. Well, Senator, it would be an overstatement to say I

have no questions. But I have enough confidence to think that I can

do a good job, and to give the best I have.

Senator BRIDGES. I hope you can. But I just say, if you were

chosen for some other position in the Department, I could understand the logic of the selection. But one of the things that has
16 NOMINATIONS

troubled me and troubled many other people is that you were selected

for this particular spot.

I want to ask another question. Do you remember a year or two

ago it was reported that the Rand Corp. was conducting a survey

and preparing a report on how this country should surrender if the time ever came? This was denied emphatically by the Defense Department and by the Rand Corp. Now I want to ask you if the denials were true? If they were not true, did you have anything to do with that report?

Mr. Hrrcu. Sir, it was never denied that there was a book which

was written at Rand by a Rand staff member and published under the title "Strategic Surrender." This was published by the Stanford University Press. It is available—and was at all times available—

to the public in the bookstores. It was a purely historical study of

past situations and was an examination of American policy in the

past, and particularly in relation to the requirement for unconditional

surrender of the enemy—not of the United States, but of the enemy— in the last war, and an evaluation of that policy.

Senator BRIDGES. There was no consideration in the book dealing with possible American surrender?

Mr. HITCH. It did not deal with American surrender at all, sir.

Senator BRIDGES. And how soon after all this controversy was the book published?

Mr. HITCH. I believe I recollect that the controversy was started after the book was published, or at least after it was announced, I

think probably by someone who had seen the title and not read the book.

Senator BRIDGES. Did you take part in that?

Mr. HITCH. No sir • I had no part in that.

Senator BRIDGES. You were not on the panel nor on the research end

at all?

Mr. HITCH. At that time I was head of the Economics Division, and this was not a product of the Economics Division.

Senator BRIDGES. Who ordered that book from the Rand Corp.? Did the Air Force order it?

Mr. HITCH. It was part of the Rand program, of the Rand research

program, which is worked out with the Air Force.

Senator BRIDGES. Would you know who in the Air Force ordered it? I would be curious to know, in light of the repeated denials.

Mr. HITCH. Well, sir, Rand reports in the Air Force to the Deputy Chief of Staff for Development in headquarters. But I could not tell

you what person was involved at that time, and indeed I cannot re- member what year it was.

Senator BRIDGES. And is that book available now?

Mr. HITCH. Yes sir; the book is available.

Senator BRIDGES. I have not read the book. I will have to procure

a copy. It is called "Strategic Surrender"?

Mr. HITCH. Yes.

Senator BRIDGES. And it contains absolutely nothing, to your knowledge about 

Mr. HITCH. About the United States surrendering, nothing whatever.
NOMINATIONS 17

Senator BRIDGES. It just deals with countries by and large, how

wars have ended, and the conditions of past surrenders?

Mr. HITCH. Yes.

Senator BRIDGES. And there was no inference, as far as you know,

that this might be a plan in the background for what we should do?

Mr. HITCH. If there was any inference, it was about U.S. policy in

the future, about what conditions we should impose upon an enemy

we were defeating, but not about the United States surrendering.

Senator BRIDGES. Thank you.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Stennis.

Senator STENNIS. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Saltonstall.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Hitch, when you and I talked together yesterday, I think

it was, I asked you if you had read title III of the National Security

Act of 1947. I should have called it title IV—which is "the promotion

of economy and efficiency through the establishment of uniform

budgetary and fiscal procedures and organizations." Have you had an

opportunity to look at that title?

Mr. HITCH. Sir, I have had no time since we talked yesterday.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Well, I call your attention to that title, because that title was drawn up in this committee and that title was followed by Mr. McNeil quite successfully, but has still been incompletely

implemented.

Mr. HITCH. Yes.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I would hope that you would give the procedures under that title a careful examination when you took over and

had an opportunity to do so.

Mr. HITCH. I will certainly do so.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Because I think it will increase the efficiency

of the Department very much if some of the economics contemplated

by budgetary methods in that title are adopted and continue to be

adopted as time goes on.

Mr. HITCH. Yes sir. I believe that one of my three deputy comptrollers has this as his primary responsibility.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Now, you have the responsibility, as I understand it, as Comptroller for the Secretary of Defense, of seeing

that the appropriations made for the various services, as well as the

Department of Defense itself, are properly spent, or are not over

spent, and so on.

Now, do you understand it as a part of your responsibility, your

duty, to see that the Department's requests are within their budgetary requirements and to hold up those requests if in your opinion

they should not be granted at that time?

Mr. HITCH. Yes, sir; I believe that is correct.

Senator SALTONSTALL. You understand that that is your responsibility.

Mr. HITCH. Yes sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And through your assistants, who are accountants2 or who will be accountants, you intend to exercise that

responsibility to the full.

Mr. HITCH. Yes sir.
18 NOMINATIONS

Senator SALTONSTALL. Because there is where the difficulty in the

spending of public funds in the Department of Defense comes. There

is where the criticism, perhaps, or difficulties which you may encounter come to you, if you exercise that responsibility.

Mr. HITCH. That is one of the places from which difficulties come,

I expect, Senator.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And as you said to Senator Bridges, so far

as we are concerned in the Congress on the Appropriations Committee,

we can count on your giving us objective analyses of figures in answer

to any questions we may make?

Mr. HITCH. Yes, sir, to the best of my ability.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And your own opinions on them.

Mr. HITCH. Certainly.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Now, one other question which has come up in our committees a number of times, in the Appropriations Committee rather than this committee, is the question of an accrual system.

Have you gone into that question at all?

Mr. HITCH. Not very much, sir. This is one of the things to which

I want to give a lot of study and attention, but I have not.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Because it would seem to me that the Department of Defense, in fact the whole U.S. Government, is way behind in building up an accrual system which is so fundamental.

Mr. HITCH. That is my opinion.

Senator SALTONSTALL. That is building up an accrual system, which

is so fundamental to the proper spending of our funds. And personally I would hope you would give that subject a great deal of careful attention as soon as possible.

Mr. HITCH. I will do SO.

Senator SALTONSTALL. As well as this title IV, which I think can

be further implemented to a very considerable degree beyond what it

presently is.

Mr. HITCH. Yes, sir, I have both of these in mind.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Symington.

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, I have already presented the committee with my opinion about this fellow member of my State.

In all fairness, I believe that the committee has felt that Secretary

McNeil, in this position, did a good job. My impression was that he

was always on top of his job. In defense of Mr. Hitch's record, my

recollection is that Mr. McNeil first was in the automobile business in

the Middle West and had no accounting background of any kind whatsoever

'

is that correct?

Mr. HITCH. I believe that is correct, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. And then he went from there to where he was

the circulation manager of a newspaper here in Washington is that

correct?

Mr. HITCH. I am not sure of that.

Senator SYMINGTON. Neither am I. I will correct the record if I

• am wrong. And then he went from the position with the newspaper

to a high appointment as an officer in the U.S. Navy is that correct?

Mr. HITCH. Yes, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. In fact, I believe he was an admiral before

he left the Navy, was he not?
NOMINATIONS 19

Mr. HITCH. I am not sure whether he was an admiral or a courtesy

admiral.

Senator SYMINGTON. Neither am I. But I am sure he was a captain, and I believe he was an admiral. So for the record, I would say

;that the man who held this job for a great many years had no accounting background of any kind whatever, to the best of my knowledge, prior to his accepting this position and becoming the Comptroller of the Department of Defense. If my recollection is in error on

this I would want to correct the record, Mr. Chairman.

However, as I understand it, you have had a great deal of experience in Government and with the operation of various agencies of

Government.

What was your position with the Rand Corp.?

Mr. HITCH. For 12 years I was head of a division, of the economics

division, which included cost analysis of weapon systems and operations, and included logistics. For the last few months, I have been

head of the research council, directing the research of the corporation as a whole.

Senator SYMINGTON. You know that your work will bring you before the Appropriations Committee, of which the distinguished Senator from New Hampshire is the ranking member.

Mr. HITCH. Yes, sir.

Senator SYMINGTON. Do you believe, based on your past record,

that you can furnish that committee and the other committees with

the proper information incident to the Defense Department budget?

Mr. HITCH. That is correct.

Senator SYMINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman R-crssEr.z. Senator Smith.

Senator SmyrH. - No questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Ervin.

Senator ERVIN. No questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Thurmond.

Senator THURMOND. No questions.

Chairman RussFiJi. Well,, we thank you very much, Mr. Hitth.

Mr. HrrcH. Thank you sir.

Chairman RussRm. We will now take up the designation of Mr.

Cyrus R. Vance to be the General Counsel for the Department of

Defense.

(The biographical data with respect to Mr. Vance follows:)

CYRUS ROBERTS VANCE

Born: March 27, 1917, at Clarksburg, W. Va.

Education: Kent School; Yale University, B.A. 1939; LL.B. 1942.

Military service: Served in the U.S. Navy from 1942 to 1946 primarily in destroyers in both the Atlantic and Pacific. Separated from the service in 1946

as a lieutenant.

Business and professional experience: Upon separation from the service, served

as assistant to the president of the Mead Corp. in 1946-47. In 1947, entered

the practice of law with the firm of Simpson, Thacher & Bartlett, New York,

N.Y., becoming a partner of the firm on January 1, 1956. Continued as a partner of that firm, specializing in litigation, from that date until withdrawal from

the firm on January 16, 1961.

Legal associations: American Bar Association (member of the associate and

advisory committee to the standing committee on aeronautical law) ; New York

State Bar Association (member of the Federal legislation committee) ; Associa-
20 NOMINATIONS

tion of the Bar of the City of New York (member of the joint committee on the revision of the New York Civil Practice Act).

Previous Government service: Special counsel to the Preparedness Investi- gating Subcommittee of the Committee on Armed Services of the U.S. Senate, 1957-60; Consulting counsel to the Special Committee on Space and Astronau- tics of the U.S. Senate, 1958.

Civic activities: Trustee of the Kent School, Kent Conn., 1956-60; Director of Union Settlement Association, Inc., 1953-60; Trustee of the Boys' Club of New York, 1959-60.

Family: Wife—Grace Sloane Vance; five children—Elsie Nicoll Vance, Amy Sloane Vance, Grace Roberts Vance, Camilla Vance, and Cyrus Roberts Vance, Jr.

Chairman RUSSELL. I am sure all the members of the committee remember Mr. Vance. At one time he was connected with this com- mittee, for a brief period, when we formed a very high opinion of his capabilities.

All right, Mr. Vance, you may proceed.

STATEMENT OF CYRUS R. VANCE, NOMINEE-DESIGNATE, GENERAL

COUNSEL FOR THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE

Mr. VANCE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I was born in Clarksburg, W. Va. in 1917. I attended public schools and then the Kent School in Kent, Conn. Thereafter, I at- tended Yale College, from which I graduated in 1939. I went from there to the Yale Law School, from which I graduated at the end of December 1941. Almost immediately thereafter I entered the U.S. Navy.

I served in the Navy until 1946, primarily in destroyers both in the Atlantic and the Pacific.

When I was released from the Navy in 1946, I went to New York, and served as the assistant to the president of the Mead Corp., which

was engaged in the pulp and paper business.

In 1947, I entered the practice of law with the law firm of Simpson, Thacher & Bartlett in New York. I became a partner of that firm in 1956 and have remained a partner of that firm until I with- drew last Monday.

During my entire time with Simpson, Thacher & Bartlett, I have been engaged almost exclusively in trial work, trying all types of

cases. ,

I am married to Grace Sloane and have five children.

I believe that is all, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Mr. Vance, nearly all of the gentlemen with whom you would be associated down there in the Department of De- fense, who have appeared earlier, are Harvard men. Do you think

they will take the advice of a man from Yale?

Mr. VANCE. I hope so, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Bridges.

Senator BRIDGES. I have known Mr. Vance for a considerable period

of time and have been very familiar with his work in the Preparedness Committee and the Space Committee. He has always done an outstanding job. If he continues with the same type of work as General Counsel for the Defense Department, I have confidence he will establish a fine record.
NOMINATIONS 21

Mr. VANCE. Thank you, Senator Bridges.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Stennis.

Senator STENNIS. Mr. Chairman, I will not question Mr. Vance. I

have already seen many times the excellence of his work. I know he

is a very fine lawyer. I am encouraged greatly to know that he is also

an effective trial lawyer. Going into a courtroom to present the law

and to argue a case, I think, is superior training. I think, too, that the

office of General Counsel for the Department of Defense is a highly

important one. There are great opportunities there for you, Mr.

Vance, and I think you will prove your worth over and over. I know

that you will be of great service to the Department of Defense and

to the Government.

I am not here to flatter you, but one of the best trial lawyers in Mississippi told me years ago, before this appointment ever came up,

that you were one of the best trial lawyers in New York City and in

the country. I think we are very fortunate to have your type here,

and you in particular.

Mr. VANCE. Thank you very much, Senator.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Saltonstall.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Chairman—Mr. Vance, I have been very

much embarrassed this morning, because it seemed to me that we are

getting an awful lot of people from Yale University. Has Harvard

slipped, or did you get in under the gun somehow?

Mr. VANCE. Maybe I just got in under the gun.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Well, may I say, Mr. Chairman, I have no

questions of Mr. Vance. In assisting this committee, he proved to be

intelligent, a man of honor and truth, and also objective. I hope that

you will guide your policies in the future as you have in the past. I

am sure that you will do a good job.

Mr. VANCE. Thank you, Senator.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Symington.

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, as the members of this committee know, Mr. Vance was assistant counsel to the Military Preparedness and Space Investigating Subcommittee, conducted by the

Vice-President-elect Johnson, then Senator Johnson. As a result of

his efforts, every member of that committee is indebted to his activities.

In my opinion, also as a result of those efforts, he is one of the foremost authorities in this country on many of the more pressing needs

and requirements of the Department of Defense incident to our national security.

I think that the Department of Defense is very fortunate in having

the opportunity of Mr. Vance serving as their General Counsel. I

congratulate him on taking the job. I am sure that he will render the

same type and character of public service in this job that in the past

he has rendered. According to Senator Stennis, he is known in Mississippi as one of the outstanding trial lawyers in New York. I can say

he is also known in Missouri as one of the outstanding trial lawyers

in New York and the country. I certainly wish him well in his new

position.

Mr. VANCE. Thank you very much, Senator.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Smith.

Senator SMITH. I have no questions, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Ervin.
22 NOMINATIONS

We will now consider the designation of Mr. Arthur Sylvester to

be the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs.

(The biographical data with regard to Mr. Sylvester follows:)

ARTHUR SYLVESTER

Arthur Sylvester was born in Montclair, N.J., October 21, 1901.

After his graduation from Princeton University, with a bachelor of arts degree

in 1923, Mr. Sylvester was employed by the Macmillan Co. of New York as a

shipping clerk and subsequently as a salesman for the publishing house.

In 1924, he joined the suburban staff of the Newark (New Jersey) News, transferring to the city staff in 1925. In 1929, he became assistant city editor, a

position which he retained until 1932. From 1932 to 1934, he served the News

as suburban editor, becoming feature editor in the latter year.

For 8 years (1936 44), Mr. Sylvester was city editor of the News. In April

1944, he came to Washington, D.C., as correspondent and bureau chief of the

Newark News.

Mr. Sylvester is married to the former Kathryn Frances Ferguson and has a

son, Tony, of Washington and a daughter, Natasha, of New York. Mr. and

Mrs. Sylvester live at 4600 Connecticut Avenue NW., in Washington.

Long active in professional journalistic activities, Mr. Sylvester is a member

of Sigma Delta Chi, the National Press Club, Overseas Writers, the Gridiron

Club, the Cosmos Club, and the Campus Club (Princeton).

Chairman RUSSELL. We will be glad to hear from you, Mr. Sylvester.

STATEMENT OF ARTHUR SYLVESTER, NOMINEE-DESIGNATE,

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE (PUBLIC AFFAIRS)

Mr. SYLVESTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I was born in Montclair N.J., October 21, 1901. Montclair is a

commuting suburb of New 

Montclair,

My father was a New York businessman who called himself a black Republican from upstate New

York. One of my regrets is that he is not alive to give me his comments on the position I find myself in now.

I have no politics.

I was educated in the elementary public schools of Montclair. Then

I went to Montclair High School. At that time you may recall the

officers' training camps were in operation at Plattsburg, and the late

General Wood established a junior Plattsburgh at Fort Terry, on

Plum Island, which was a coast artillery operation.

I attended that and acquired some examples of military discipline

which have never left me.

After graduating from Montclair High in 1919, I went to Princeton and graduated in 1923 with an A.B. degree.

After Princeton, my first year I spent with the Macmillan Co. in

New York, a publishing house, and there my experience was limited

to, in the first part, learning the stock in the cellar, and the rest of

the year selling to the trade, as it is called, which means the bookstores to whom nobody else could sell, because they did not buy any

books, so I could not hurt any accounts.

From the Macmillan Co. I went to the Newark News in 1924, September of 1924. I started out as a suburban reporter, and became a

city reporter.

In 1929 I went on the executive side. I was on the executive side

for the next 15 years-8 of those as city editor—until I came to Washington in 1944 as the Washington correspondent for the Newark News.
NOMINATIONS 23

Just before the transition from city editor to the Washington correspondent, the Treasury Department borrowed me for 2 months to

bead up the News Division for the fourth war loan. So I have had

some experience with the Treasury Department.

Since I have been in Washington, I have covered Capitol Hill, all

the national conventions, all the campaigns. I think one of the most

instructive experiences I had in that field was covering Senator Russell's campaign in the contest with Mr. Kefauver in Florida in 1952.

I learned more there about politics than I had learned up to that

point.

I have also covered practically every international meeting both

here and abroad, including the formation of the United Nations, both

the summit meetings, and good many of the others. I went last year

with Mr. Nixon to Russia, and made that amazing trip with Khrushchev around the United States.

I was a member of the third joint orientation course the Department of Defense inaugurated during the term of Mr. Johnson.

I think that pretty well fills in my background.

I have submitted to the committee a list of the securities which I

own. Most of them represent an inheritance. However, a third of

them I would say represent my own savings. I am prepared to do

with them whatever the committee wants me to do.

Chairman RUSSELL. Do you propose to serve in this position as

long as your services are desired?

Mr. SYLVESTER. Yes sir, as long as they want me, I will certainly

serve.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Bridges.

Senator BRIDGES. Mr. Sylvester, do you realize the necessity and

the wisdom and the obligation to keep in close touch with the respective committees of the Congress that have to do with the Defense

Department?

Mr. SYLVESTER. Senator, I am very sensitive to that, having sat on

the other side and watched—I would be a very poor man if I had not

learned that lesson. I certainly do.

Senator BRIDGES. Would you have the overall supervision of legislative liaison activity within the various departments?

Mr. SYLVESTER. No, Senator, that has been removed several years

ago from this operation.

Senator BRIDGES. SO you have nothing to do with the liaison.

Mr. SYLVESTER. I have nothing to do with the liaison. It was formerly, as I understand it, but it has been some time removed. I believe that is under General Roderick.

Senator BRIDGES. However, you would have the final approval on

the speeches made by various people in the armed services?

Mr. SYLVESTER. Definitely, and the new Secretary feels strongly on

that.

Senator BRIDGES. In the event something is said concerning which

there is a question, you would have no hestitation in coming up immediately, if a member of this committee or a member of the Appropriations Committee should ask to see the actual tape or the actual prepared copy of the speech or remarks?

Mr. SYLVESTER. I did not get the first part of your question.
24 NOMINATIONS

Senator BRIDGES. I say that sometimes there have been questions as

to what has been said or a variance of understanding as to what

has been said by a Defense Department official.

Mr. SYLVESTER. You mean what has been said on the record

publicly?

Senator BRIDGES. Yes. You realize it is sometimes vital that we

have this information. And you would comply with such request

immediately?

Mr. SYLVESTER. If I understand what you mean, if you mean would

I make available to you everything that has been said publicly by any

official and try to get it for you as quickly as possible, I certainly

would, definitely.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Symington.

Senator SYMINGTON. Mr. Chairman, I have known Mr. Sylvester

long and always favorably. I congratulate him on coming into

public service. I am sure he will make a big contribution to the

problems over there.

I would like to ask one question. We have had quite a little trouble

at times getting information in the legislative branch, since I have

been in the Senate—and I am not talking about classified information.

But is it your intention to see, following the line of questioning .of

my distinguished colleague from New Hampshire, that we get information as quickly as possible over here on these issues?

Mr. SYLVESTER. Senator Symington, without going into any windy

generalizations, it would be hard for me today to see a situation in

which you would not be entitled to the same sort of information that

was in the public domain and quite quickly. As a matter of fact, I

consider that if I were sitting on the committee, I would like to

know things myself. So I would approach it from that point of view.

Senator SYMINGTON. Thank you very much.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Saltonstall.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Mr. Sylvester, just one question. Have you

gone into the question of what securities you should or what securities you should not hold with the Counsel of the Defense Department?

Mr. SYLVESTER. The outgoing Counsel has talked to me about them.

He has not given me any recommendation one way or the other,

and has said that it would be up to the members of this committee

to make that determination.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Well, as one member of this committee, I

have known that your position does not have anything to do with

procurement or contracts of any kind. On the other hand, I think

that we have been pretty consistent with relation to oil stocks. As

I look through this list of yours, I would say hastily that the only

question that would come up in my mind would be the oil stocks. But

I would not ask you to sell them if the Counsel thought it was not

necessary for you to do so.

Mr. SYLVESTER. I am prepared to do whatever the committee wants,

as all the other gentlemen who have appeared before me.

Senator SALTONSTALL. I think it is very much easier if you did

it at your discretion, rather than put the burden on us to tell you

what to do.

Mr. SYLVESTER. Of course, everybody who sits here does not see

any conflict. I would say as to possible conflicts, if I sold every stock
NOMINATIONS 25

I had, that would not eliminate my friendships with the public relations officers of these big companies. And I could do a great deal

that way whether I owned a stock or did not.

And I would think—you have my word on that, that my attitude

towards them will be the same as it was before I crossed this line.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Personally, I would prefer leaving it to your

discretion, with a view to having looked over these.

Mr. SYLVESTER. All right, sir. I will check it at your suggestion.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Ervin.

Senator ERVIN. No questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Smith.

Senator SMITH. I have no questions.

Chairman RussFIT.L. Thank you, Mr. Sylvester.

Senator BRIDGES. I would like to make a comment. I am very

interested, and sort of pleased here, because we have been looking

over financial statements of the various people who have applied here

for consideration of this committee, and various other committees.

I see you hold some U.S. Treasuries, and you do have a little faith

in this Government. I have not seen them on many sheets. So I

want to compliment your faith, because they are rarely seen today

on some of these security holdings which we have examined and

which other committees have examined.

Mr. SYLVESTER. Thank you, Senator. I rather suspect our Government will outlast some of those companies.

Chairman Russmri. Mr. Sylvester, does Murray Snyder have the

position to which you have been designated?

Mr. SYLVESTER. Yes, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. Just when did this position become an Assistant Secretary of Defense? Was that in Mr. Snyder's time?

Mr. SYLVESTER. I think it antedated that.

Chairman RUSSELL. Do you recall who preceded Mr. Snyder?

Mr. SYLVESTER. Well, Fred Seaton was in that position at one

time, I believe. I cannot recall. It is on the tip of my tongue—the

man immediately before Mr. Snyder. A man by the name of Ross.

Chairman RUSSELL. Yes, Mr. -Ross—I remember him quite well,

of course.

I notice this morning in the press that a deputy assistant secretary

had been selected to serve under you.

Mr. SYLVESTER. There is an assistant secretary and a deputy. I

have been able to obtain the services of Mr. Nils Lennartson from the

State of New Hampshire, who for the last 8 years has been a special

assistant in this capacity to the Secretary of Treasury. Prior to that,

he had been in the Defense Department working with Mr. Gilpatric

and Mr. Tom Finletter. So he has had experience there and throughout the Government. I think he has a very good reputation with

the newsmen of Washington.

Chairman RUSSELL. It has been customary, then, to have a deputy

all the time.

Mr. SYLVESTER. Their charts which I have been shown, apparently

indicate they have for a long time. It is a rather large group of people that we are responsible for.

Chairman RUSSELL. Yes, I assume that is so. Not only does the

Department of Defense have an office of this kind, but the three other
26 NOMINATIONS

departments have one. And that has caused me considerable concern.

I think that all the information over there ought to come out of the

same place. It has caused some confusion in the past. I think the

people in the other departments ought to be transferred to your office,

or else they should have direct responsibility. I hope that you will

take a very firm grasp of public relations, and that Mr. McNamara

will support you to see if we cannot do a little centralizing on the

public relations and news issuing facilities of the Department.

Mr. SYLVESTER. One of Mr. McNamara's discussions with me has

borne on that, and that is one of his hopes. And with your views

on it, it is a great backstop also. I do not say we are going to set

the world on fire, but we hope to take some steps in that direction.

Chairman RUSSELL. I congratulate you on being worthy of the

undertaking.

Any further questions? If not, thank you, Mr. Sylvester.

Next we will take up Nominee-Designate Thomas D. Morris.

(The 'biographical sketch of Mr. Morris follows:)

THOMAS D. MORRIS

B.A., University of Tennessee, 1934.

Tennessee Valley Authority,1934-36 : Office systems analyst.

Interchemical Corp., 1936-39: Assistant to division manager.

'U.S. Steel, 1940-411: Controller's staff.

Navy Department, 1942-45: Office of Management Engineer, Lt. Commander.

Cresap, McCormick & Paget (management consultants), 1946-56: Partner.

,Served as consultant to both Hoover Commissions, Department of Defense, Department of State, Department of the Treasury, General Services Administration, Housing and Home Finance Agency, and a number of private companies.

Department of Defense, 1956-57:

Special Assistant to Deputy Secretary Reuben Robertson.

Deputy Assistant Secretary, Supply and Logistics.

Champion Paper & Fibre Co., 1958-60: Director of management planning and

assistant to president.

U.S. Bureau of the Budget, 1960: Assistant Director for Management and

Organization.

Personal

Age 47. Born: Knoxville, Tenn, April 19,1913.

Married: Two children, David, age 25, with Army Security Agency in England;

Martha, age 16.

Residence: Bethesda, Md.

Chairman RUSSELL. Mr. Morris, would you briefly tell this committee something about your background and experience?

STATEMENT OF THOMAS D. MORRIS, NOMINEE-DESIGNATE FOR

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE (SUPPLY AND LOGISTICS)

Mr. MORRIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chairman, I was born in Knoxville, Tenn., where I lived until

graduation from the University of Tennessee in 1934. For the first

6 years after graduation, I was employed by three companies and

the Tennessee Valley Authority, I engaged in studies of office methods

and procedures to reduce overhead costs of these organizations.

Among them was the United States Steel Corp., which gave me an

exposure to heavy manufacturing management problems.

During World War IT, I served for 4 years on the staff of the

Secretary of the Navy in his management engineering office. Secre-
1

NOMINATIONS 27

tary Forrestal called heavily on this staff to assist in studies of

procurement and supply problems throughout the Naval Establishment, and in the industrial installations of the Navy—shipyards and

overhaul and repair points.

Following the war, I became a partner in a management consulting

firm, Cresap, McCormick & Paget, where I spent most of my time

with the firm on studies for Federal agencies, including both Hoover

commissions, the Department of Defense, Treasury, State, and housing

agencies.

Chairman RUSSELL. Where are the main offices of that organization?

Mr. MORRIS. In New York City, sir.

In 1956, at the invitation of the late Reuben Robertson Jr., I

joined him as an assistant while he was Deputy Secretary of Defense.

Sometime later I became Deputy Assistant Secretary for Supply and

Logistics, for a period of time.

I then joined Mr. Robertson in his company in Ohio. The Champion Paper & Fibre Co., as an assistant until his death in the winter

of 1960.

Since then I have been back in Government as an Assistant Director of the Bureau of the Budget for Management and Organization

matters.

Chairman RUSSELL. When did you come into the Bureau of the

Budget?

Mr. MORRIS. Officially, sir, in May of 1960.

Chairman RUSSELL. Mr. Morris, do you have any plans with respect

to the length of your tenure in this position?

Mr. MORRIS. Sir I am prepared to serve as long as my performance

is considered effective.

Chairman RussELL. With respect to your holdings of securities, I

suppose you are aware of the fact that some of these would come in

conflict with the policies the committee has followed heretofore.

Mr. MORRIS. I am, sir, and I am prepared to specifically dispose of

the first three and any others which the committee directs.

Chairman RussELL. Senator Bridges.

Senator BRIDGES. Mr. Morris, you will have charge, if you are confirmed, of the policy of procurement, will you not?

Mr. MORRIS. Right, sir.

Senator BRIDGES. Will you award contracts?

Mr. MORRIS. No, sir.

Senator BRIDGES. Will all contracts awarded have to have your

approval?

Mr. MORRIS. That is not my understanding, sir, that that is the

case.

Senator BRIDGES. Yours is a general planning?

Mr. MORRIS. Planning and policy recommendation, sir, to the Secretary of Defense.

Senator BRIDGES. Give us an example of how a contract would reach

you and how you would pass on it.

Mr. MORRIS. It is the responsibility, as I understand it, sir, of the

office of supply and logistics to develop, through conference groups

with the three military departments, standard procurement practices

and to issue regulations, known as the Armed Services Procurement
28 NOMINATIONS

Regulations. The Assistant Secretary of Defense maintains over- sight on these after promulgation through evaluating the practices of the departments. They may occasionally be concerned in review of actual contracts, but not on a prior approval basis.

Senator BRIDGES. So that yours, as you look at it, is a policy job,

and you will at all times be free to work with this committee.

Mr. MORRIS. That is correct, sir.

Senator BRIDGES. You will hold yourself available.

Mr. MORRIS. Yes sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Ervin.

Senator ERVIN. No questions.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Saltonstall.

Senator SAI/TONSTALL. Mr. Morris, you are taking the position of Perkins McGuire, are you not?

Mr. MORRIS. That is correct, sir.

Senator SAI/TONSTALL. In answer to Senator Bridges, will you not have the power of cancellation of contracts?

Mr. MORRIS. Sir, I am not aware of that, but I am not certain.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Well, you will have the responsibility, will

you not, of determining in broad general language the terms under which certain contracts can be carried forward.

Mr. MORRIS. The general terms of contracting as laid out in the Armed Services Procurement Regulations.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And if you do not approve of the way those

contracts are being carried out by the department, you can, through

your responsibility, stop that contract from going forward, can you

not?

Mr. MORRIS. I would assume, sir, it will be my responsibility to take the matter up with the departmental secretary, and if there were still an issue, then with the Secretary of Defense.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And if there is an appeal from the Air Force

Department, we will say, on your decision, that will go through you

to the Secretary of Defense for determination.

Mr. Momus. I would assume so, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. So that the procedures under the procurement laws, for instance the procurement law of 1947 I think it is, has

17 exceptions from formal advertising, all come through your office.

Mr. MORRIS. Yes

'

sir; and I understand it is reflected in these regu- lations, the Armed Services Procurement Regulations.

Senator SALTONSTALL. For instance, it was brought up recently on

Mr. Nitze, the question of offshore procurement—Mr. McGuire issued

an order recently to bring back a lot of those contracts. Now, that would be your responsibility to determine whether contracts would be done in this country or abroad.

Mr. 1VIoRRis. In accordance with policies as approved by the Secretary of Defense, we would assist him in assuring their implementa- tion sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. And you have the responsibility also of try- ing to unify contracts and have one service do it rather than to have all three services do it, and all that sort of thing.

Mr. MORRIS. That is correct, sir.

Senator SALTONSTALL. Thank you.
NOMINATIONS 29

Senator BRIDGES. Right in that connection, Mr. Morris, you do have

in mind that certain industries in our country are going through precarious times, and that, were some of these contracts placed abroad,

it might seriously jeopardize our ability to keep our own defense

industries in operation. You will take that into consideration in your

overall policy decisions, will you not?

Mr. MORRIS. By all means, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. Senator Thurmond.

Senator THURMOND. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Morris you served as special assistant under Mr. Robertson

when he was Assistant Secretary of Defense?

Mr. MORRIS. No, sir, he was Deputy Secretary.

Senator THURMOND. At the time you served under him?

Mr. MORRIS. Yes.

Senator THURMOND. At that time, what position did you fill under

him?

What were your duties?

Mr. MORRIS. I was a general staff assistant, sir, primarily on questions of organization with which Mr. Robertson was interested, including particularly procurement and logistics organization.

Senator THURMOND. Then you served as Deputy Assistant Secretary for Supply and Logistics.

Mr. MORRIS. That is correct.

Senator THURMOND. Who was Secretary at that time?

Mr. MORRIS. The present Secretary, Mr. McGuire.

Senator THURMOND. So you have had considerable experience in

this work you are going into.

Mr. MORRIS. Yes, sir I think that is so.

Senator THURMOND. In my opinion this is one of the most responsible positions in the entire Defense Department. Your position appears to qualify you for it.

I wish you good luck.

Mr. MORRIS. Thank you very much.

Chairman RUSSELL. Mr. Morris, I assure you it won't have the

slightest effect on my approach to your designation, but I am just a

little curious about which political party you are affiliated with.

Mr. MORRIS. Sir, I have been independent all my life, and on both

sides of the situation.

Chairman RUSSELL. You have no firm affiliation.

Mr. MORRIS. No, sir.

Chairman RUSSELL. Thank you.

Any further questions?

Thank you, Mr. Morris. The committee will now conclude its

public hearings on these designees.

All members of the committee will please take note that the full

committee will meet in the committee room in executive session at 2: 30

this afternoon to thrash out the various problems that have been generated by these hearings.

(Whereupon, at 12: 40 p.m., the committee adjourned to reconvene

at 2: 30 p.m. in executive session.)
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