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2 COMMITTEE ON TTAN,*.

OFFICE AND CIVIL SERVICE

USE OF REPRESENTATIVES

EIGHTY-SEVENTH CONGRESS

FIRST SESSION

ON

H.R. 7061 and H.R. 7272

BILLS TO AMEND TITLE 39 OF THE UNITED STATES CODE

TO PROVIDE FOR PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY

TIME OWING TO DECEASED POSTAL EMPLOYEES, AND

FOR OTHER PURPOSES

JULY 26, 1961

Printed for the use of the

Committee on Post Office and Civil Service

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

73065 WASHINGTON : 1961
COMMITTEE ON POST OFFICE AND CIVIL SERVICE

TOM MURRAY, Tennessee, Chairman

JAMES H. MORRISON, Louisiana

JAMES C. DAVIS, Georgia

JOHN LESIN SKI, Michigan •

KATHRYN E. GRANAHAN, Pennsylvania

THADDEUS J. DULSKI, New York

DAVID N. HENDERSON, North Carolina

ARNOLD OLSEN, Montana

JOSEPH P. ADDABBO, New York

RICHARD H. ICHORD, Missouri

G. ELLIOTT HAGAN, Georgia

CATHERINE D. NORRELL, Arkansas

MORRIS K. UDALL, Arizona

ROBERT J. CORBETT, Pennsylvania

H. R. GROSS, Iowa

JOEL T. BROYHILL, Virginia

AUGUST E. JOHANSEN, Michigan

GLENN CUNNINGHAM, Nebraska

GEORGE M. WALLHAUSER, New Jersey

ROBERT R. BARRY, New York

KATHARINE ST. GEORGE, New York

JOHN H. ROUSSELOT, California

EDWARD J. DERWINSKI, Illinois

SuBcommrrrEE APPOINTED To CONSIDER H.R. 7061 AND H.R. 7272

G. ELLIOTT HAGAN, Georgia, Chairman

KATHRYN E. GRANAHAN, Pennsylvania

JOSEPH P. ADDABBO, New York

MORRIS K. UDALL, Arizona

II

JOEL T. BROYHILL, Virginia

GLENN CUNNINGHAM, Nebraska

EDWARD J. DERWINSKI, Illinois
CONTENTS

Statement of— Page

Doyle, Louis J., General Counsel, Post Office Department; accom- panied by Herbert Block, Director, Compensation Division, Bureau

of Personnel 2

Jaspan, Dan, legislative representative, National Association of Postal Supervisors 12 Langan, James, operations director, Government Employees' Council,

AFL—CIO 10 O'Connor, John, legislative representative, National Federation of Post Office Clerks 13 Rademacher, James H., assistant secretary-treasurer, National Asso- ciation of Letter Carriers 8

III

PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME FOR

DECEASED POSTAL EMPLOYEES

WEDNESDAY, JULY 26, 1961

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE

COMMITTEE ON POST OFFICE AND CIVIL SERVICE,

Washington, D.C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 215,

House Office Building, Hon. G. Elliott Hagan (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Mr. HA GA N. The subcommittee will come to order.

This subcommittee was appointed and is meeting this morning to

consider H.R. 7061 which, as you know, was introduced by Mr.

Murray, and H.R. 7272, which was introduced by Mr. Corbett,

identical bills which would provide for payment of unused compensatory time earned by deceased postal employees.

(The bill H.R. 7061 follows:)

[H.R. 7061, 87th Cong., 1st sess.]

A BILL To amend title 39 of the United States Code to provide for payment for unused compensatory

time owing to deceased postal employees, and for other purposes

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of

America in Congress assembled, That section 3573 of title 39, United States Code,

is amended by adding at the end thereof a new paragraph (5), as follows:

"(5) If an employee is entitled under this section to unused compensatory

time at the time of his death, the Postmaster General shall pay a sum equal

to the employee's hourly basic compensation for each hour of such unused

compensatory time to the person or persons surviving at the date of such

employee's death. Such payment shall be made in the order of precedence

prescribed in the first section of the Act of August 3, 1950 (5 U.S.C. 610, and

shall be a bar to recovery by any other person of amounts so paid.".

Mr. HAGAN. The members appointed to this subcommittee are

Mrs. Granahan, Mr. Addabbo, Mr. Udall, Mr. Broyhill, Mr. Cunningham, Mr. Derwinski, and I was designated chairman.

This legislation is the result of an official recommendation by the

Post Office Department here in Washington. The Department

reports its enactment would correct a situation which it believes to

be discriminatory and unfair to the heirs and to the estates of deceased

postal employees. •

Under present law, employees under the Classification Act may be

paid for any unused compensatory time they may have to their

credit. In addition, these credits may be paid to the employee's

survivors. This situation does not apply in general to employees

covered by the Postal Field Service Compensation Act and the Comptroller General so ruled in a decision dated March 4, 1959.

The act contains no provision authorizing a payment of overtime

pay in lieu of granting compensatory time to employees, or their

1
2 PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME

heirs, in or above salary level PFS-8, or in the cases of employees in

PFS-7 and below who accrue compensatory time on account of work

performed on Saturdays and Sundays which do not occur during the

month of December.

Incidentally, this latter group of employees is not too seriously

affected since they must be granted their compensatory time within

5 working days. In addition, they can be paid overtime for all work

in excess of 8 hours in 1 day and for work performed on Saturdays

and Sundays in December.

This is not the case with employees in or above salary level PFS-8,

however. This group of employees must be granted compensatory

time for all overtime, holiday, and Saturday and Sunday work and

the 5-day rule does not apply to them. Consequently, some of these

employees can accrue large amounts of compensatory time, especially

during the Christmas season.

Our first witness this morning, who is representing the Post Office

Department, is Mr. Louis J. Doyle, General Counsel of the Post Office

Department, and we are certainly pleased to have you with us, Mr.

Doyle, and to have your statement at this time.

STATEMENT OF LOUIS I. DOYLE, GENERAL COUNSEL, POST OFFICE

DEPARTMENT; ACCOMPANIED BY HERBERT BLOCK, DIRECTOR,

COMPENSATION DIVISION, BUREAU OF PERSONNEL

Mr. DOYLE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am Louis J. Doyle,

General Counsel for the Post Office Department.

The statement which I will read, as you will note, was prepared for

the Assistant Postmaster General, Mr. Murphy, but he is engaged in

another hearing on the other side of Congress on the bill to revise the

Hiss Act, and I am here to read his statement for him.

We are pleased to have the opportunity to give you the views of

the Post Office Department on H.R. 7061 and H.R. 7272. These

two bills, which are identical, would require the Postmaster General

to pay the heirs of deceased postal employees for any compensatory

time earned by the employees and not used at the time of their death;

would specify how the payments are to be computed; and would

specify how the heirs are to be determined.

Postal operations are such that frequently work must be performed

during periods when most other elements of the community are at

ease. To meet this condition, we try to schedule our work force to

be present over the heaviest periods of work activity. These schedules, though, often cause employees to work on holidays and weekends. The mail must go through. It cannot be backlogged for

another day. But while there are occasions when peak workloads

occur, such as Christmas, Easter, Mothe„r's Day, tax return days,

etc., there are other days when work slacks off sufficiently that a

certain number of employees may be released without delaying the

mails or causing additional costs to be incurred.

In recognition of this fluctuating cycle of work demand, a demand

which causes peaks and valleys, a system of granting equivalent time

off in payment for excess time worked during periods of heavier work

activity has been the historical pattern in the postal establishment

for many years. This system has been embodied in law to assure

the full legality of payments made and also to prescribe, particularly
PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME 3

for the lower level employees, a requirement on management as to

the limitations for granting compensatory time off for this accumulation of credit for excess time worked.

Under the law, title 39, United States Code, section 3573, for work

performed in excess of 8 hours in 1 day, and for Saturdays, Sundays,

and holidays, certain categories of employees earn compensatory

time. The estates of employees in the lower pay levels, that is, salary

level PFS-7 and below may be paid for certain categories of such

work.

There are a large number of situations in which excess time is worked

by employees, but there are only three situations in which employees

may be paid for such work, and even in those situations only employees

in salary levels PFS-7 or lower are authorized payment rather than

time off. These are the situations in which excess time may be worked,

the kind of payment that may be given, and the eligible employees:

Excess time situation

Employees

PFS-7 and lower PFS-8 and higher

Saturday in December _ 

Sunday in December 

Saturday other months 

Sunday other months 

Holiday other than Christmas 

Christmas Day 

Work in excess of 8 hours 

Paid or compensatory time 

do 

Compensatory 

do 

Paid or compensatory time 

Paid; no compensatory time 

do 

Compensatory time only,

Do.

Do.

Do.

Do.

Do.

Compensatory.

As the chart shows, for Saturdays and Sundays in December, the

employee in PFS-7 and lower may be paid or given compensatory

time. The employee in PFS-8 or higher receives compensatory

time only.

For Sundays in December it is the same rule.

Saturdays and Sundays in other months, employees in PFS-7 and

lower receive compensatory time, and employees in PFS-8 and higher

receive compensatory time only.

Holidays, other than Christmas, PFS-7 and lower are paid or

receive compensatory time; employees in PFS-8 and higher, compensatory time only.

Christmas Day is the same rule for both groups.

Work in excess of 8 hours a day, PFS-7 and lower are paid but

not given compensatory time. The employees in PFS-8 and higher

receive compensatory time.

There are of course exceptions to the foregoing rules. These rules

do not include postmasters, postal inspectors, employees assigned to

road duty, substitute employees, postal equipment technicians, examiners of equipment and supplies, regional directors, and regional

employees in PFS-13 and above.

A few years ago, the Comptroller General had occasion to review

the question of payment to the estate of a deceased postal employee

for unused compensatory time. He had it under consideration at a

special request of ours which this bill would not consider.

He said in his decision dated March 24, 1959, which subsequently

was affirmed on October 19, 1959, that payment could be made where

the law permitted the alternative of pay or compensatory time.
4 PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME,

Where the law did not provide such an alternative, accumulated

unused compensatory time had to be forfeited.

Mr. HAGAN. May I interrupt at this point?

The Department requested this decision?

Mr. DOYLE. We did, sir.

Mr. HAGAN. And you didn't get a favorable decision, so that is the

reason for the promotion of this bill?

Mr. DOYLE. We made a special request of the Comptroller General

and argued the case strongly on behalf of paying unused compensatory

time, but he turned us down.

Mr. UDALL. Where there is such an option, is it the employee's

option or the Department's option?

Mr. DOYLE. The Department's option.

We think that the present law is inequitable for two reasons: First,

there is unfairness as between employees in levels PFS-7 and below,

and employees above these levels in those few situations where the

lower levels have the alternative of payment. Secondly, there is

unfairness as between postal employees and employees in the major

portion of the Federal service—employees whose positions are subject

to the Classification Act of 1949, that is, the GS schedule positions.

Positions in the general schedule of the Classification Act are paid

under the provisions of the Federal Employees Pay Act of 1945.

While that act provides for compensatory time off to be applied to

certain situations where employees work excess time, the act also

provides that payment may be made in lieu of compensatory time off

to employees up to and including GS-15. Payment may thus be made

for unused compensatory time to the estate of deceased employees

under the general schedule.

Compensatory time is a benefit in lieu of compensation for the

performance of work under circumstances regarded as undesirable.

If the employees who have performed such work live, they receive

the benefit in the form of time off with pay, and without charge to

leave, for days on which they would otherwise be required to work.

If they die, however, before they can be granted all their time off, they

cannot, of course, receive the intended benefit. Under these circumstances, it seems eminently fair that a cash value be placed on their

unused compensatory time, just as a cash value is placed on their

unused annual leave, and that such value be made a part of the estates

of the deceased employees, for payment to their rightful heirs.

There are many reasons why an accumulation of compensatory

time cannot be taken within a short period after being earned. It

may be because of a continued heavy workload, or a shortage of

qualified replacements, or simply because the employee wished to

save the accumulation to be taken at a later date for his own personal

reasons. Despite the reasons why the time was not used, or why it

was saved, death comes unannounced, and the best laid plans of men

are worthless.

To illustrate, there is the case of two Post Office investigative aids,

Messrs. Spizzirri and McAuliffe, who on March 14, 1960, during the

course of their assignment to the Inspection Service, were murdered

when they attempted to apprehend three men for stealing mail

packages.

At the time of his death Mr. Spizzirri had 83 hours of compensatory

time to his credit, and Mr. McAuliffe had 52 hours. These men died
PAY3.vIENT F0R UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME 5

in the service and received benefits under the various laws such as

that pertaining to death in line of duty, insurance under the Federal

group insurance law, and pay for all unused annual leave. But their

families were denies payment for their unused compensatory time.

Had these men worked for an agency subject to the Federal Employees' Pay Act, such as the Veterans' Administration, Department

of Defense, Department of Interior, etc., they would have received

payment for such time.

To remedy this condition, the Department included in its legislative

program last fall a proposal to accomplish the same purpose as the

bills on which I am not testifying. On May 10, 1961, the Postmaster General wrote identical letters to the Speaker of the House of

Representatives and the President of the Senate submitting, with

the permission of the Bureau of the Budget, a bill for consideration

by the Congress to accomplish this purpose.

Therefore, I wholeheartedly endorse the bills on behalf of the

Post Office Department, and hope that one of them may become law

during this session. A small amendment is suggested in order to

preserve the rights of these employees whose estates are currently

eligible to receive pay for unused compensatory time. In a few situations this payment may be at the time and one-half rate—that is,

where the law provides either compensatory time or overtime pay.

The language of H.R. 7272 and H.R. 7061 provides payment only at

straight time rates in all instances. Accordingly, it is suggested that

language be included in the bill to assure that the appropriate rate is

used. This could be accomplished by adding the following phrase

after the word "pay" in line 1, "at the rate prescribed in this section,

but not less than.' This will insure that the employee may draw the

time and a half, or straight time, whichever is applicable in the

circumstances.

We thank you for this opportunity to express our views, and will

be pleased to answer any questions that the committee may have.

And may I respectfully request that Mr. Herbert Block, Director of

the Compensation Division, be permitted to assist me in the event I

am unable to answer any questions the committee may ask?

Mr. HAGAN. I might say that we are very glad to have Mr. Block

with us.

In regard to these employees in PFS-8 and above, are there any

situations at all whereby these people may be paid for any overtime

work instead of compensatory time?

Mr. DOYLE. No, sir; none.

Mr. HAGAN. Are there any other questions? Do you have any

questions, Mrs. Granahan?

Mrs. GRANAHAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

If Christmas falls on Sunday, do they move the mail on Christmas

Day?

Mr. DOYLE. Yes.

Mrs. GRANAHAN. If something happened to one of those postmen,

would he or would he not be paid for the work he was doing on that

day? I mean pay now, not compensatory time.

Mr. DOYLE. May I ask Mr. Block to comment on our rule as to

overtime and compensatory time on Sundays in December?

Mr. BLOCK. Most letter carriers are below level 7 and would therefore be entitled to pay for the work performed. If they were above

78065-41----2
6 PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME

level 7, that is, a supervisor, they would not be paid but granted

compensatory time, and therefore the estate would not be entitled

to collect.

Mrs. GRANAHAN. What we want is to have everyone treated alike, is that the idea?

Mr. DOYLE. Yes.

Mr. BLOCK. That is correct.

Mr. HAGAN. Mr. Broyhill?

Mr. BROYHILL. I want to commend the Post Office Department for

recommending this legislation, and for your very fine statement. It

is certainly very much needed legislation to correct a most unfair and

serious inequity. There is no reason for the Post Office Department

or the Federal Government to be the beneficiary of a dead employee

when he had this time coming to him.

Now I am wondering—this bill only provides for the payment of

unused compensatory time when the employee dies. Might not the

problem be better solved by placing postal employees on exactly the

same status with the classified employees so as to give the Postmaster

General the discretion of paying overtime or giving compensatory

time off?

Mr. DOYLE. Mr. Broyhill, I can't tell you what the policy of the

Postmaster General might be on that today. Back in 1955 when the

present Public Law 68 was enacted, the draft submitted provided for

pay rather than compensatory time, but due to some objections which

were raised to it during the course of the hearings, this committee

eliminated—inserted the compensatory time as well as pay, leaving

the decision to the Postmaster General. Now I can't recite the reasons why, but I would be pleased to speak to the Postmaster General

and find what his view would be.

(A subsequent letter received from Mr. Doyle follows:)

POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT,

OFFICE OF THE GENERAL COUNSEL,

Washington, D.C., August 1, 1961.

Hon. G. ELLIOTT HAGAN,

Chairman

'

Subcommittee on Post Office and Civil Service,

House of Representatives, Washington, D.C.

DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: During the hearings on H.R. 7061 and H.R. 7272 on

July 26, 1961, Congressman Broyhill inquired concerning an amendment to

Public Law 68, 84th Congress. He asked whether the problem of payment for

unused compensatory time to the estate of deceased employees might better be

solved by providing the Postmaster General with the option of paying for excess

time worked in addition to his authority to grant compensatory time for such

period. This is the essence of the language now used in the laws governing employees holding positions in the general schedule. Such an amendment, if enacted, would solve the problem which these bills seek to remedy. However, a

number of added considerations would be involved in such an amendment and the

net effect might be to delay corrective legislation beyond this session of the

Congress.

A proposal to provide an option of either compensatory time or paid overtime

to employees in or below level PFS-7 was considered in 1955 by the Committee

on Post Office and Civil Service of the House of Representatives, but was withdrawn upon the urging of employee representatives. The main objection appears

to have been the fear that the authority would not be exercised uniformly.

The suggested amendment would solve the present problem relating to deceased

employees only if the option to pay overtime or grant compensatory time were

extended to include employees in salary levels above PFS-7. In such cases,

however, there arises the question of whether and to what extent managerial

personnel should be entitled to overtime payment.

Under the circumstances we believe that it would be practical to set aside the

more involved matter of extending the overtime pay and ,compensatory time
PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME, 7

provisions of law and to support at this time legislation designed to correct the immediate problem.

Sincerely yours,

Louis J. DOYLE, General Counsel.

Mr. BROYHILL. I have another question, Mr. Chairman.

I don't know whether you can answer this or not, Mr. Doyle, but

in the event of an employee planning to retire, can the compensatory

time that he has to his credit be converted over to terminal leave?

Mr. BLOCK. Generally the employee delays the effective date of

retirement until he has used his compensatory time, and then he is

put on retirement, and gets paid for his annual leave.

In other words, the employee has an opportunity to control the use

of that leave by delaying the retirement data.

Mr. BROYHILL. Then in fact, isn't the practical effect the same as

terminal leave? If he has, let us say, 30 or 40 days of compensatory

time coming, he is on leave at that time, so it has the same effect?

Mr. BLOCK. That is right. The same would be true in a situation

where a man is disabled and was going to retire, take disability retirement. He could provide that his sick leave, if he had an accumulation

of sick leave, would be used before he went on disability retirement.

Mr. BROYHILL. So under this—this is a hypothetical example; I

don't know that you have any employees with as much as 30 days

compensatory time, but let us say if we had a case like that, that he

was on that 30-day leave at the time, and prior to retirement, and he

died the second or third day while using that compensatory time, his

estate would not get the benefit of that time?

Mr. BLOCK. That is right.

Mr. BROYHILL. But he would have accumulated annual leave?

Mr. BLOCK. That is right.

Mr. BROYHILL. I have another situation here that if an employee

dies while he is on annual leave—we had some cases involving people

who died just before the Liberalization Act of 1956—if an employee

died just before that act came into effect while he was on leave, his

widow, his survivor would come under the new act if there was

enough leave to carry him beyond October 1, but if he dies just prior

to that time while still on duty, even though he had enough leave to

carry him beyond that time, his survivor did not come under that act.

And I am going to try to get an amendment on that, but I don't

know whether I will try it on this bill. But there is an inequity

which should be amended.

I would appreciate it if you would study that suggestion and see if

you wouldn't think that would be a better way of approaching this

problem.

Mr. DOYLE. The cost of this would be negligible to the Department,

Mr. Broyhill. I don't know what the statistics show, but we experience deaths in the service of how many, Mr. Block?

Mr. BLOCK. 2,000 a year.

Mr. DOYLE. And most of those, however, have used their compensatory time, so that the cost would be negligible.

Mr. HAGAN. Any other questions?

(No response.)

. Mr. HAGAN. Mr. Doyle, we certainly appreciate you and Mr.

Block coming over to represent the Post Office Department, and we

appreciate your fine statement and *answers to these questions.
8 PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME

The next witness is Mr. James II. Rademacher.

Mr. Rademacher is assistant secretary and treasurer of the National

Association of Letter Carriers, and I would like to say that I don't

know of any finer assoeiation in America.

We are delighted to have you with us and to hear your testimony.

STATEMENT OF JAMES H. RADEMACHER, ASSISTANT SECRETARYTREASURER, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF LETTER CARRIERS

Mr. RADEMACHER. Thank you, sir.

At the outset I would like to express the opinion that it is a most

wholesome feeling to appear at a hearing at which management and

labor are in complete agreement on postal legislation.

I want to express my personal thanks, and those of the National

Association of Letter Carriers, for the privilege of being permitted to

testify today in favor of the two identical bills introduced, respectively,

by Chairman Tom Murray, and Congressman Robert J. Corbett,

H.R. 7061 and H.R. 7272. I also would like to take the liberty of

saying that the introduction of these two bills is typical of the overall

concern for simple justice which these two postal leaders have exhibited

in Congress for so many years as well as of the bipartisan, or nonpartisan spirit of cooperation which invariably pertains among

members of this committee where the welfare of postal and other

Federal employees is concerned.

In point of fact, H.R. 7061 and H.R. 7272 involve simple justice.

They are not big money bills. As I shall illustrate presently, the

money involved is insignificant. But, in our opinion, the principle

involved is of major importance.

These bills would permit the Postmaster General—in the case of

an employee dying with some unused compensatory time to his

credit—to pay to his survivors a sum equal to the employee's hourly

basic compensation for each hour of such unused compensatory time.

I cannot really see how anyone could object to these bills. Compensatory time is in itself a kind of payment which is earned in the place

of money and is a kind of currency. Upon the death of an employee

it should be owed to the survivors just as much as the earned portion

of his salary check is owed.

As an example of the kind of injustice which occurs under the present

law, I would like to cite the case of a young letter carrier who, just

recently, dropped dead of a heart attack. This unfortunate young

man had worked all day on a Saturday and on the very next day,

Sunday, he dropped dead. Normally he would have received his

earned compensatory time during the upcoming workweek. Unhappily he did not live long enough to receive this time, and there was

no way that his young widow could be recompensed for the value of

the time which the Government owed her late husband.

Admittedly, the amount of the money involved was small—about

$20. But in a time of sudden tragedy, any amount of money assumes

greater importance than in ordinary times.

In cases such as these, through legislative oversight, the Department

finds itself in the distasteful position of playing a kind of Russian

roulette with its employees. If the employee dies before he can get the

compensatory time that is owed him, the Department wins. It not,

then the employee wins.
PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME 9

I am sure that neither the Congress nor the Department ever

intended that this should be the case, and I am grateful that two of

our great and good friends on the House Committee on Post Office

and Civil Service have joined hands in attempting to remedy the

situation.

I have said the cost of this legislation would be inconsequential.

Insofar as our records of our own members are concerned, we estimate that the cost to the Department would be less than a thousand

dollars a year. To reach even that sum, 50 members of the National

Association of Letter Carriers would have to die on a Sunday during

1 year, each with 1 full day of compensatory time owed to him. The

probability of this happening is very slight indeed.

I admit, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, that it is

not often that the National Association of Letter Carriers comes

before you in favor of a bill costing only $1,000 a year or less. But

in this case the money involved is subordinate to the principle, and

we sincerely and earnestly hope that you will see your way clear to

approving H.R. 7061 and H.R. 7272 so that the existing legislative

injustice can be corrected.

Mr. HAGAN. Are there any questions that any members of the

committee would like to ask?

Mrs. GRANAHAN. I have no questions. I think it is very clear.

Mr. BROYHILL. Mr. Chairman, I want to commend Mr. Rademacher for emphasizing that the principle involved is the most important thing, even though the amount of money is insignificant. I

certainly subscribe to that.

There is no reason why the Post Office Department or the Federal

Government should be the beneficiary in the case of death of an employee, regardless of what the amount of money involved happens

to be.

You mentioned this case of Russian roulette. I don't think the

employee even is in as good a position as one who would be playing

Russian roulette, because it's more like the case of heads I win and

tails you lose. Because the employee can't win. He is entitled to

the compensatory time; he is not getting something he is not entitled

to, it is his. The Government can't lose anything by the employee

living, because the Government owes it to him. But the Government

does win by an employee dying, and the employee's survivors lose.

So I see no way under the existing legislation that an employee can

win.

So what we are doing by this legislation is preventing the Federal

Government from being the beneficiary, or gaining as the result of the

death of an employee. By passing this legislation the Government

loses nothing; they are not entitled to save this amount of money, and

even if it amounted to a large number of dollars a year, the employee

has earned it and it is his.

I compliment you on emphasizing the principle involved, even

though the amount of money is insignificant.

Mr. HAGAN. Any further questions?

(No response.)

Mr. HAGAN. Mr. Rademacher, we certainly appreciate your appearing before us and giving us this information, and particularly the fact

that this will not cost the Government a great deal of money; certainly it will not according to your statement.
10 PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME

Thank you very much for appearing before us.

We regret very much that Mrs. Granahan must leave us. She has

an important rollcall for another committee.

Mrs. GRANAHAN. I just received a message from Government Operations that there is no quorum and it will be necessary for me to be

there, but before going I might leave this word with you, that I

wholeheartedly favor this bill.

I don't know whether we take proxies or not.

I understand from Mr. Johnson that we do, so may mine please

be recorded?

Mr. BROYHILL. I move there be unanimous consent that the proxy

be accepted.

Mr. HAGAN. Your proxy will be so voted in favor of the bill.

(Mrs. Granahan left the hearing room.)

Mr. HAGAN. We will next hear from Mr. James Langan, operations

director, Government Employes' Council, AFL—CIO.

I think Mr. Langan is known to all of us, and we are delighted to

have you with us today.

STATEMENT OF JAMES LANGAN, OPERATIONS DIRECTOR,

GOVERNMENT EMPLOYES' COUNCIL, AFL-CIO

Mr. LANGAN. Mr. Chairman, I would like in a brief statement to

record the GEC as being in favor of the passage of this bill.

I won't read my prepared statement, but I would like to refer to

the question that was put by Mr. Broyhill with reference to the

Department's option to pa 3; overtime or compensatory. I believe

you asked if there were any objections to that.

There is objection to that way of solving the problem on the part

of the employee. We don't feel that the Department should have

the option at any time of paying overtime in lieu of compensatory

time, because it would result in a great deal of unfairness throughout

the country.

Some administrators would pay the overtime in certain cases rather

than have compensatory time credited to the employee. In other

cases some postmasters would never pay overtime, and it would not

operate to treat them all fairly if it was optional.

We have difficulty now at Christmas time, considerable difficulty

in the Post Office Department. Some postmasters seem to feel that

at Christmas time they should pay overtime and get the whole thing

done away with, get it all straightened out during the Christmas

period and then be able to carry on their normal work for the rest of

the year.

Other postmasters, however, will try all kinds of scheming to avoid

paying the overtime, and• the offices, the post offices, may be near to

each other, say just 5 miles apart, and one man pays overtime and

another one won't pay overtime, and it leads to a great deal of morale

shattering.

Mr. BROYHILL. In many cases the Post Office Department has the

option now.

Mr. LANGAN. No, only at Christmas time.

Mr. HAGAN. This bill will give them the option to do what your

folks want at any time, is that right?
PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME 11

Mr. LANGAN. No, this bill will simply legalize or authorize the

-payment of any unused time in case to the estate, whereas it's lost

today.

Mr. BROYHILL. Mr. Doyle's example says that for Saturday in

December, Sunday in December, and a holiday other than Christmas,

those three examples, for employees in PFS-7 and lower, he says they

have the option, the Department has the option, of paying or granting compensatory time. Is that correct?

Mr. LANGAN. Yes, in December.

Mr. HAGAN. It says holidays other than Christmas.

Mr. LANGAN. No, there is no overtime on holidays other than

Christmas.

Mr. BROYHILL. That is what his statement says, holidays, other

than Christmas, paid or compensatory time.

Mr. LANGAN. You can be paid for the holiday.

Mr. BROYHILL. Or compensatory time.

Mr. LANGAN. Or Compensatory time.

Do you mind if we talk about this off the record for a minute?

Mr. HAGAN. All right, off the record.

(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. BROYHILL. Where the postal laws differ primarily from the

Classification Act, is that in most all instances except those three that

I mentioned, it provides for compensatory time off only?

Mr. LANGAN. That's right.

Mr. BROYHILL. And you prefer that to be fixed and rigid and not

give them the option to—

Mr. LANGAN. That is right. Rather than giving the Post Office

Department an option, we perhaps would have no objection to making

it mandatory.

Mr. BROYHILL. It is mandatory now that compensatory time 

Mr. LANGAN. I am talking about overtime. But we do object to

the optional basis, because it will open up a Pandora's box of abuse.

Mr. HAGAN. And the Government Employes' Council is in complete agreement with the Post Office Department as regarding this

bill; is that correct?

Mr. LANGAN. That is right.

Mr. HAGAN. Any further statements you would like to make?

Mr. LANGAN. No, sir, that is all, except to thank you all for permitting us to appear here today.

Mr. HAGAN. Any questions?

Mr. ADDABBO. No.

Mr. UDALL. No further questions.

Mr. BROYHILL. Nothing further, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. HAGAN. We certainly appreciate your appearing before us,

Mr. Langan, and we appreciate the answers to our questions.

(Mr. Langan's prepared statement follows:)

PREPARED STATEMENT BY JAMES K. LANGAN, OPERATIONS DIRECTOR,

GOVERNMENT EMPLOYES' COUNCIL, AFL—CIO

My name is James K. 

Langan, 

operations director of the Government Employes' Council, AFL—CIO, a federation of 24 unions, chartered by the AFL—CIO,

comprising about 600,000 members.

We wish to be recorded as favoring the provisions of H.R. 7061, Murray,

and H.R. 7272, Corbett, which will provide for payment of a postal employee's

unused compensatory time to survivors, in a sum equal to the hourly rate of the
12 PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME

employee, after the employee's decease. Present law makes no provision for

conversion of compensatory time to cash payments with the result thg.t the

Government profits to the extent of receiving services for which no payment is

made.

We also wish to commend Chairman Murray and the ranking majority member,

Mr. Corbett, for introducing these bills and the subcommittee chairman and

members for scheduling a prompt hearing and express the hope that a favorable

report will be made to the full committee and the bill passed by the House to

correct this injustice.

Mr. HAGAN. We will now hear from Mr. Dan Jaspan, legislative

representative, National Association of Postal Supervisors.

STATEMENT OF DANIEL JASPAN, LEGISLATIVE REPRESENTATIVE,

NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF POSTAL SUPERVISORS

Mr. JASPAN. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee,

my name is Daniel Jaspan. I am the legislative representative of

the National Association of Postal Supervisors, composed of about

26,000 supervisors in the postal field service.

We are most grateful to Chairman Murray and Mr. Corbett for

introducing H.R. 7061 and H.R. 7272, and to this subcommittee for

holding early hearings. Our association has passed resolutions in

our various conventions asking for payment for compensatory time

which was earned but which the employee could not use on account

of death.

Postal supervisors accumulate more compensatory time than other

postal employees. In the first place, employees in levels 7 and below

are paid for overtime and for some Saturday and Sunday work required in December incident to the Christmas mails. Employees in

levels 8 and higher receive no monetary payments for these hours,

but are given time off, known as compensatory time. Thus, it is not

unusual for postal supervisors to accumulate 10 or 15 days of compensatory time when the new calendar year begins. They work long

hours in December and generally work more than 8 hours on Saturdays

and Sundays during that month. This is done, not with the idea of

accumulating compensatory time, but because it is necessary in moving the mail. They are granted 180 days to use the compensatory

time they have to their credit.

We have had cases called to our attention where supervisors were

entitled to a week or more compensatory time, but, probably due to

the long hours and the pressures involved in moving the Christmas

mail, they died from heart attacks or other reasons in January before

using any compensatory time. In these cases, they did not use the

time to their credit and their widows or estates did not receive any

monetary payments since the law at present does not permit such

payments. This is manifestly unfair.

Employees below level 8 rarely have more than 8 hours compensatory time to their credit since compensatory time for Saturday and

Sunday work is generally used within a week after 8 hours are earned.

Those in the higher levels often find it impracticable to use compensatory time for Saturdays and Sundays within a week after it is earned

and add this time to the time accumulated during December, to be

used as soon as possible but within the 180 days.

We hope that this committee will report favorably to the full committee and that you will endorse the bill when it reaches the floor of

the House. The quick passage of either of the identical bills—
PAYMENT FOR UNUSED COMPENSATORY TIME 13

7061 and H.R. 7272—is needed to eliminate an injustice to postal

employees in general, and postal supervisors in particular.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to testify in favor of these

bills.

Mr. HAGAN. Our last witness is Mr. John F. O'Connor, legislative

director, United Federation of Postal Clerks.

Mr. O'Connor.

STATEMENT OF JOHN F. O'CONNOR, LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR,

UNITED FEDERATION OF POSTAL CLERKS

Mr. O'CONNOR. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, for

the purpose of the record my name is John F. O'Connor. I am

legislative director of the United Federation of Postal Clerks. Under

an agreement of merger recently approved by three organizations,

the former National Federation of Post Office Clerks, the former

United National Association of Post Office Craftsmen, and the

former National Postal Transport Association we are now one organization and are known as the United Federation of Postal Clerks.

I desire to express our appreciation to Congressman Murray, chairman of the House Post Office and Civil Service Committee, for his

introduction of H.R. 7061. I also desire to thank him for scheduling

hearings on this legislation.

The purpose of H.R. 7061 is to provide for payment to survivors

of deceased postal employees who may at the time of death have

compensatory time coming to them. Compensatory time is that

time that is owed to a postal employee for having worked on a Saturday, Sunday, or holiday.

In the instance of Saturday and Sunday, with the exception of the

month of December, that employee would receive compensatory time

within the next 5 working days. Where an employee had worked

on a holiday, the employee would receive compensatory time within

the next 30 working days. While we recognize the fact that instances

such as this legislation proposes to correct would not occur on too

many occasions, they do actually occur. At the present time there

is no provision under the law to pay the survivor of the employee for

the time the employee had actually worked on these days if the

employee is deceased prior to receiving the compensatory day or days

off.

We fully concur in the purpose of this legislation, and highly

endorse it, as we believe that it will correct an inequity that exists.

The amount of money concerned is not of great consequence, as in

most instances the amount owing to a post office clerk's estate would

not usually be more than 1 day's pay, in a few instances it may amount

to 2 days' pay, and in extreme or very unusual instances it could be

3 days' pay. •

Again, may we say that we endorse the legislation and we trust that

the committee will report it favorably.

We appreciate the opportunity of making a statement to the committee in behalf of H.R. 7061.

Mr. HAGAN. Gentlemen, we certainly appreciate all of you appearing before the committee. We will now go into executive session.

(Thereupon, at 11:50 a.m., the subcommittee proceeded into

executive session.)
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