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H E A R IN G

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS 

UNITE D STATES SENATE

EIGH TY -NINTH CONG RESS

FIR ST SESSION

ON THE

NOMINATIONS OF THOMAS C. MANN, AS UNDER SECRETARY 

FOR ECONOMIC AF FA IRS; DOUGLAS MacARTIIUR 2d, AS 

ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR CONGRESSIONAL RELATIONS; 

ROBERT C. GOOD, AS AMBASSADOR TO ZAMBIA; C. ROBERT 

MOORE, AS AMBASSADOR TO MAL I; RAYMOND R. GUEST, AS 

AMBASSADOR TO IRE LAND; ANGIER BIDDLE DUKE, AS 

AMBASSADOR TO SP AIN ; GEOFFREY W. LEW IS, AS AMBASSADOR TO MAURITANIA; AND JAMES W. LAMONT AND ELIZABET H F. O’BRIEN, FOREIGN SERVICE OFF ICERS

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MARCH 2, 1965

Printed fo r the use of the Committee on Foreign Relations

44-168

U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE

WASHINGTON : 1965
COMMITTEE ON FOR EIGN REL ATIO NS

J. W. FU LBRIG HT, Arkansas, Chairman

JOHN SP AR KM A N, Alabama 

MIK E M AN SF IE LD , Montana 

W AYN E MO RSE. Oregon 

R U SS ELL B. LO N G , Louisiana 

A L B E R T GORE, Tennessee 

F R A N K J. LA U SC H E, Ohio 

F R A N K CH U R CH , Idaho 

S T U A R T S YM IN G TON , Missouri 

TH OM AS J. DODD, Connecticut. 

G EO R G E A. SM AT HER S, Florida 

JO SE PH S. C L A R K , Pennsylvania 

CLA IB O R N E P E LL, Rhode Island

B O U R K E B. H IC K EN LO O PER , Iowa 

G E O R G E D. A IK E N , Vermont 

F R A N K CA RLS O N , Kansas 

JO HN J. W ILL IAM S, Delaware 

K A R L E . MUN DT , South Dakota 

C L IF F O R D P. CA SE , New Jersey

Carl Marcy, ChieJ of Sta ff

Darrell St. Clai re, Clerk
C O N T E N T S

Sta tement by— Pag»

Duke, Angier Biddle, nominee to be Ambassador to Spain_________ 21

Good, Robert C., nominee to be Ambassador to Zambia___________ 6

Guest, Raymond R„ nominee to be Ambassador to Ireland________ 18

Javits, Hon. Jacob K., U.S. Senator from the State of New York___ 22

Lamont, James W., for Foreign Service officer, class 7 and 8, from the

rou tine Foreign Service list of Feb ruary 1, 1965________________ 32

Lewis, Geoffrey W., nominee to be Ambassador to Ma uritania______ 26

MacArthur, Douglas, 2d, nominee to be Assistant Secretary for Congressional Relations________________________________________ 2

Mann, Thom as C., nominee to be Under Secretary for Economic Affai rs______________________________________________________ 23

Moore, C. Robert, nominee for Ambassador to Mali________________ 15

O’Brien, Miss Eliza beth F., District of Columbia, Foreign Service 

officer, class 7 an d 8, from the routine Foreign Service list of February 1, 1965__________________________________ _____________ 35

Insertions for the record:

Biographic sketch of Douglas MacArthu r 2d_____________________ 1

Biographic sketch of Robert C. Good___________________________ 6

Biographic sketch of C. Robert Moore_________________ Z _ _ZZ_ LZ Z 14 Biographic sketch of Raymond R. Guest____________________ 18

Biographic sketch of Angier Biddle Duke______________________ ” 20

Statem ent of Claiborne Pell, U.S. Senator from the State of Rhode

Isla nd________________________________________________ _ 21

Biographic sketch of Thomas C. Ma nn______________ ZZZZZZZZZZZZ 22 Biographic sketch of Geoffrey W. Lewis_________________________ 26

h i

STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC

NOMINATIONS

TUESDAY, MARCH 2, 1965

U ni te d Sta te s Sen ate ,

C om mi tt ee on F or ei gn R el at io ns ,

Washington, D.C.

The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 4221, 

New Senate Office Building, Senator J. W. Fulbright (chairman) 

presiding.

Present: Senators Fulbright, Sparkman, Smathers, Clark, Aiken, 

Carlson, Williams, and Case.

The Chairman. The committee will come to order.

We are meeting this morning in open session to hear the nominations of various appointees to the Foreign Service. The first on our 

list this morning is Ambassador Douglas MacArthur 2d, of the 

District of Columbia, presently Ambassador to Belgium, to be Assistant Secretary of State for Congressional Relations.

(The biography of Mr. MacArthur follows:)

D ouglas MacArthu r 2d

Present position: Ambassador to Belgium.

Considered for: Assistan t Secretary of Sta te for Congressional Relations.

Born: Pennsylvania, July 5, 1909.

Edu cation: B.A., Yale University, 1932.

Ma rita l s tat us: Married.

Experience.— Governm ent:

Year 1935: Appointed Foreign Service Officer unclassified, vice consul of 

career and secre tary in the diplomatic service; vice consul, Vancouver.

Year 1936: Foreign Service school.

Year 1937: Vice consul, Naples; vice consul and third secretary, Paris.

Year 1940: Third secretary, Vichy; vice consul, Lisbon; Foreign Service 

officer 8.

Year 1944: Assigned to Depar tment; secretary of mission, staff of U.S. 

political adviser, Supreme Headquarters, AEF, London; secretary and vice 

consul, Paris.

Year 1945: Second secre tary, Paris, in addition to duties as vice consul, 

Foreign Service officer 6.

Year 1946: Consul; assigned as consul, Paris, in addition to duties as 

second secretary; Foreign Service officer 4.

Year 1947: Foreign Service officer 3; first secretary, Paris, in add ition to 

duties as consul.

Year 1948: Consul, Brussels.

Year 1949: Assigned to Department; Chief, Division of Western European 

Affairs; Deputy Director, Office of European Regional Affairs.

Year 1950: Foreign Service officer 2.

Year 1951: Counselor of Embassy, Paris.

Year 1952: Foreign Service officer 1; assigned to Departme nt.

Year 1953: Counselor of Department of State.

Year 1955: Foreign Service officer, class of career minister.
2 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

Year 1956: Ambassador Extrao rdinary and Plen ipotentiary to Jap an. 

Year 1961: Ambassador Extrao rdin ary and Plenipoten tiary to Belgium.

Memberships and clubs: Not s tate d.

Office: American Embassy, Brussels, Belgium.

Home: Care of th e American Embassy, Brussels.

Legal residence: District of Columbia.

The Chairman. Mr. MacArthur, will you come forward and take 

the witness stand, please? We are very pleased to have you, Mr. 

Ambassador. This is not the first time you have been before this 

committee.

STATEMENT OF DOUGLAS MacARTHUR 2D, NOMINEE TO BE

ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR CONGRESSIONAL RELATIONS

Mr. MacArthur. Thank you, Mr. Chairman; it is a great privilege 

to be back here today.

SUMMARY OF NO MINEE ’S EX PE RIEN CE

The Chairman. For the record, would you very briefly give us a 

very short summary of your experience? You have been in the 

Foreign Service since about 1935, have you not?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes, sir. I have been in since 1935.

I started out, Mr. Chairman, as vice consul in Vancouver, Canada, 

and after a period of roughly a year and a half there, I returned to 

Washington for the Foreign Service school and then went to Naples, 

Italy , where I was assigned to the Consulate General. I stayed there 

until 1938, when I was assigned to the Embassy in Paris remaining 

there until 1940, when the Germans occupied tha t city.

I was one of the three members of the Embassy assigned to accompany the French Government which was fleeing before the 

German advance to Tours and then Bordeaux. The Government 

was in Bordeaux when the armistice was signed and I was then 

assigned to the Embassy at Vichy. I remained a t Vichy until November 1942. After the Allied landing in North Africa, the German 

authorities arrested me and I was deported to Germany and I remained 

there in deportation and internment until 1944, when I was exchanged in a diplomatic exchange.

In the summer of 1944, I was assigned to General Eisenhower’s 

command in Normandy and I served as an assistant political adviser 

to the Supreme Commander, occupying myself primarily with the 

French question, because I had served and worked with the French 

Resistance in late 1941 and 1942.

Following the liberation of Paris, I was assigned to the Embassy in 

Paris, where I remained until 1948, when I was reassigned to Brussels.

I remained in Brussels until 1948, and then returned to Washington to be Chief of the Western Europe Division. I remained in that post 

for a few months until the Office of European Regional Affairs was 

organized to backstop NATO and the European integration movement and I became the Depu ty Director of that new Office.

In 1951, I was assigned to the SHAPE headquarters to serve as 

General Eisenhower’s political adviser on international affairs. I 

remained there until the end of 1952, when I was brought back to the State Department and named Counselor of the Department in early
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 3

1953. I was Counselor of the State Departm ent until the end of 1956, 

when I was appointed Ambassador to Japan. I served in Japan from 

the beginning of 1957 until 1961, when I was appointed Ambassador to 

Belgium. I have been Ambassador to Belgium ever since.

The Chairman. I think you would qualify as a career Foreign 

Service officer.

Mr. MacArthur. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

E U R O P E A N IN T E G R A T IO N AND R E L A T IO N S H IP W IT H T H E U N IT E D STA TES

The Chairman. For our information, would you comment about 

our relations with the Common M arket since it is very much in the 

news?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes, I would be delighted to, Mr. Chairman.

In Europe today, I think there are two somewhat conflicting 

views as to the future organization of Europe and the future relationship of Europe with the United States.

One view, held by such European statesmen as Paul Henri Spaak, 

Jean Monnet, the late Robert Schumann, fathe r of the Coal and 

Steel Community, have strongly believed that if the voice and 

influence of Europe is ever to be exercised constructively, there should 

be some merging of European sovereignty. These statesmen point 

out tha t for the last 100 years in certain important respects, Western 

Europe has had greater assets than either Russia or the United States: 

for example, in total population, total industry, total technical and 

scientific skills and talents. To these statesmen, the tragedy of 

Europe of the last 100 years has been tha t it was organized on the 

basis of national states, each one m otivated by a fierce and burning 

nationalism which led them into recurrent rivalries—economic, commercial, political, military, colonial—culminating in the great European 

civil wars by which Europe opened its veins and bled itself white.

Feeling strongly this way, they have sought an integrated Europe. 

They have sought to merge the political and economic and other 

resources of Europe so that they could work together for the benefit 

of Europe as a whole rath er than to have Europe’s assets diversified 

between national states which used them in rivalries with each other.

They also believe that in certain important respects, Europe and 

the United States are interdependent. They believe tha t it is not 

possible to assure the security of Europe without the participation of 

the United States in an integrated European defense and without the 

great protective umbrella of American military power.

They also believe th at in another important respect there is in terdependence. This is an economic interdependency. They maintain tha t Europe and the United States economically and financially 

and commercially need each other, tha t if either of us loses the great 

market tha t the other presents, the one who lost that market would 

be in trouble. They also believe that if there is a financial or economic 

crisis in the United States, Europe will rapidly feel the devastating 

results of such a situation and vice versa. Consequently, they believe 

strongly in the fact that the new Europe that they are trying to build, 

an integrated Europe, should work in the closest cooperation with the 

United States and, wherever possible, harmonize the policies of Europe 

as they are being developed, with those of the United States so tha t 

the policies of Europe and the United States can supplement and
4 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

complement each other rather than having the two policies meet in 

headon policy confrontations or go in widely different directions.

I would say, Mr. Chairman, that these European views are supported, in my judgment, by the overwhelming majority of the 

European people and the governments of Western Europe.

K E N N E D Y R O U N D N E G O T IA T IO N S

At the present time, as you know, we and the Common Market 

face, within the framework of GATT at Geneva, a very important 

negotiation, a tariff negotiation, the so-called Kennedy round. The 

objective of this exercise is to reduce the barriers to trade so that 

there can be expanded international trade. I think at the moment, 

one of the primary things in most people’s minds in Europe today is 

these negotiations within the GATT framework at Geneva, the socalled Kennedy round, by which we hope to assure an across-the-board 

reduction in tariff barriers, and from which will result an expansion 

of our exports. Of course, very important in the negotiations, looms 

the question of agriculture as well as industrial commodities.

Agriculture is particularly important to us because we export 

to Western Europe as a whole, the Common Market and the rest of 

Western Europe, something just over $2 billion worth of American 

farm products each year.

I think there has been very substantial progress in the so-called 

European Economic Community, which was brought into being by 

the Trea ty of Rome signed in 1957, and negotiated by Mr. Spaak, 

the Belgian Foreign Minister. I think tha t the speed with which 

the European Economic Community has been realized perhaps outstripped even the most ardent hopes of its most ardent supporters. 

They face, in my judgment, one final problem before the European 

Economic Community will become irreversible. This is an agreement on the common agricultural policy. They reached an agreement on the problem of feed and wheat grains and the like, a few 

weeks ago, and this perhaps was the most difhcidt aspect of the common agricultural policy. If they succeed in reaching final acrossthe-board agreement on agricultural policy, I think that the European Economic Community, to all intents and purposes, will probably 

become irreversible.

On the political side, there has not been similar progress because 

there are certain basic feelings th at five of the members of the Community hold which one member does not hold, so there has been, thus 

far, relatively little progress in tha t sector.

E U R O P E A N U N IF IC A T IO N V IE W E D W IT H O PTIM IS M

The Chairman. You seem to be rather optimistic about the attitude of the majority of the people and governments of Europe with 

regard to the unification of Europe. Do you really feel optimistic 

about the ultimate outcome?

Mr. MacArthur. Let me put it this way, Mr. Chairman. This is 

a development of tremendous importance, perhaps almost comparable, 

in its long-term effect in terms of world relationships to the discovery 

of the New World in 1492 by Christopher Columbus. A development 

of this importance and complexity does not come into being overnight.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 5

I have lived or worked in most of the countries of Europe at one stage 

or another. I dete ct a totally different atmosphere in terms of aspirations and hopes.

Today Europe is on the forward edge of a great wave of expanding 

economic and industrial activity, comparable perhaps to the wave we 

started riding about 30 years ago as we bottomed out of our depression. In Western Europe, consumer spending, for example, since 

the Common Market trea ty was concluded in 1957, has risen roughly 

40 percent. This great wave of economic expansion and well-being, 

has changed the social structure of Europe. Today, the small automobile, the frigidaire, the television is within the grasp of the industrial 

worker of Western Europe. This great prosperity—this great wave 

of expanding prosperity—is attributed by many people to the movement 

toward European economic unification with the gradual elimination 

of barriers of commerce and trade between the member.

GR ASSROO TS SU PP ORT FO R EU ROPE AN IN TE GR AT IO N

So I think there is what you might describe for this moment a 

grassroots support. I do a great deal of lecturing at the universities 

in Europe. I think the young people of Europe look to the future 

with a different outlook than their parents. The majority of them, 

I think, that I have met in the universities, believe th at there can be 

some merging of sovereignty without abandoning certain of their 

national heritages and the like; that there is not an incompatibility 

between some modest merging of sovereignty, some organic structure 

of a new Europe, based on some form of federalism, and the maintenance of national characteristics and heritages in which they take 

great pride.

I may be wrong, but my own personal judgment is the judgment 

that I gave you; that in these matters, there is a basic grassroots 

support for this great movement toward European integration. I 

would not believe necessarily that there would be any immediate 

progress in the political field, any spectacular progress in the political 

field. I recall that in our own case, it took a good many years from 

the time of our independence under the Articles of Confederation until 

we adopted a Constitution for our Federal Government, which 

then underwent a further period of trial and adjustment. I think 

in the matter of European political integration, which presents complex problems which have their emotional content, tha t the progress 

will be slow. But personally, I feel that the direction is there and 

that the eventual result will probably be achieved.

The Chairman. Senator Smathers, do you have any questions?

Senator Smathers. No, than k you, Mr. Chairman.

I am privileged to know Mr. MacArthur. I think he is an excellent 

appointment.

The Chairman. Senator Case?

Senator Case. No, tha nk you.

The Chairman. Senator Carlson?

Senator Carlson. No, thank you.

44 -168 —65------ 2
6 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

C O N FL IC TS OF IN T E R E S T

The Chairman. Mr. MacArthur, do you have any interests which 

might conflict with the Government’s interests in this new position?

Mr. MacArthur. No, I do not, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. I would not have thought so, since you have been 

in the Foreign Service as long as you have.

I believe tha t is all, unless you have anything further you would 

like to say.

Mr. MacArthur. No, sir, I appreciate very much this opportunity, 

Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Than k you very much.

The next witness is Mr. Robert C. Good, of the District of Columbia, 

President and Director, Office of Research and Analysis for Africa, 

Bureau of Intelligence and Research, Department of State, to be 

Ambassador to Zambia.

Mr. Good, we are glad to have you this morning.

(The biography of Mr. Good follows:)

Robert C. Good

Present position: Director, Office of Research and Analysis for Africa, Bureau 

of Intelligence and Research, Depar tment of State.

Considered for: Ambassador to Zambia.

Born: Mou nt Vernon, N.Y., April 7, 1924.

Edu cation: Student, Amherst College, 1942-43; B.A., Haverford College, 

1945; B.D., Yale, 1951, Ph. D. in internation al relations, 1956; Rockefeller 

Fou nda tion fellow, 1960.

Marital status: Married.

Experience:

N on- Governm ent:

1947: Director, American Friends Service Committee Neighborhood 

Center, Fra nkfurt am Main.

1948: Administrator, inte rnation al student seminars, Philadelphia. 

1953-58: Instruc tor, later assistant professor, internatio nal relations,

Social Science Foundation, University of Denver.

1958-61: Research associate, Washington Center, foreign policy

research, Johns Hopkins.

1960-61: Director, Carnegie Endowment seminars in diplomacy, 

Washington.

Government:

1960: Coordinator, President-elect Kennedy’s Task Force on Africa. 

1961: App. FS R- 1; Director, Office of Research and Analysis for

Africa, Departme nt of State.

Coa uthor: “Alliance Policy in the Cold War,” 1959; “Neutralism and NonAlignment: The New States in World Politics,” 1962.

Coeditor: “ Reinhold Neibuhr on Politics,” 1960.

Memberships and clubs: President, Neighbors, Inc., Washington, 1962-. 

Member, Society for Religion in Higher Educatio n, African Studies Association.

Office: Departme nt of State, Washington, D.C.

Home: 1400 Iris Street NW., Washington, D.C.

Legal residence: District of Columbia.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT C. GOOD, NOMINEE TO BE AMBASSADOR 

TO ZAMBIA

The Chairman. How long have you been in the Foreign Service?

Mr. Good. I have been a Foreign Service Reserve officer, Mr. 

Chairman, since 1961.

The Chairman. Have you ever been to Zambia?

Mr. Good. Yes, I have, sir; in 1963.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 7

The Chairman. What were you doing there in 1963?

Mr. Good. I was on a trip for the Department of State in my 

capacity as Director of the Office of Research and Analysis for Africa. 

The Chairman. Do we have any libraries there?

Mr. Good. We have a library for the U.S. Information Service; 

yes, sir.

The Chairman. They have not burned it yet?

Mr. Good. Not yet, sir.

The Chairman. I hope you can get there before they do.

Mr. Good. Thank you very much, sir.

U N IT E D STA T E S R E L A T IO N S W IT H ZA M BI A

The Chairman. Do you have any reason to believe our relations 

with Zambia are going to be friendly?

Mr. Good. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Why?

Mr. Good. The President paid a visit to this country in December 

and reiterated at that time his desire for friendly relations with this 

country. He is a person who has visited here many times and has 

indicated his cordiality to our mission in Zambia. He is a person who 

is beset, as most of the African leaders are, with very serious problems 

and is looking for some assistance from the United States.

U .S . T E C H N IC A L A SSIS T A N C E TO ZA M BI A

The Chairman. What kind of assistance is the Zambian President 

seeking?

Mr. Good. We are at the present time, Mr. Chairman, giving 

technical assistance to Zambia. Zambia is reasonably well endowed 

economically. It mines a great deal of copper. It is the second or third 

largest copper producer in the world and therefore, the foreign exchange problem in Zambia is reasonably good. Bu t they have manpower problems, as most of the new African state s have, and they 

are in the business of preparing their people to assume all of the 

responsibilities of independence. In this respect, we are able to offer 

them meaningful technical assistance which amounts in the current 

fiscal year, I think, to a little over $1 million.

U .S . A ID M IS SIO N IN ZA M BI A

The Chairman. Do we have an aid director there already?

Mr. Good. Yes, we do, sir.

The Chairman. Are you the first Ambassador to Zambia?

Mr. Good. I am.

The Chairman. How does the aid get there first? Are we that 

anxious to extend aid before we get an ambassador?

Mr. Good. Mr. Chairman, we have had a small aid program in 

Zambia which was Northern Rhodesia before its independence last 

October, for about 2 years now. It was part of the Federation of 

Rhodesia and Nyasaland. Northern Rhodesia was a recipient of 

some of our aid when the political responsibility for th at area emanated 

from Salisbury, the capital of the Federation.

The C hairman. Is Zambia still pa rt of the British Commonwealth?
8 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

Mr. Good. Yes, it is still a p art of the British Commonwealth.

The Chairman. Why do you think we should undertake an aid 

mission in Zambia? This interests me. Do you think it is our duty 

to have an aid program in every country in the world as soon as they 

come into existence?

Mr. Good. Mr. Chairman, I am not prepared to answer your broad 

question about every country in the world.

The Chairman. Why so in this particular country, then?

Mr. Good. In this particular case, Mr. Chairman, I think this is 

more than justified.

The Chairman. Why?

Zambia’s geographical importance

Mr. Good. Zambia, if I may ju st elaborate a bit on the background, 

is a country which is important in regard to our general interests in 

Africa, partly by virtue of its geographic location. It is in central 

Africa. It borders on the areas of southern Africa which are still 

ruled by white minority regimes and where there are considerable 

political problems now building up. In this respect, Zambia becomes 

a focal point for African interests. It becomes automatically a focal 

point for the interests of the Ea st Bloc. So its geographic location 

and its prospective role in the evolution of developments in southern 

Africa, I would say, is the first reason why we have some concern for 

the development of good relations with Zambia and for assisting tha t 

country.

a copper-producing country

Secondly, as I mentioned before, this is a country which is a major 

copper producer. In that respect, we have major American investments in Zambia.

As a ma tter of fact, Mr. Chairman, I believe, barring only the 

Republic of South Africa, Liberia, and possibly Libya, Zambia 

contains the largest share of all U.S. investments in all of Africa; a 

little short of $200 million is invested in Zambia, primarily through 

American Metal Climax, which is a major participant in a group 

called the Roan Selection Trust.

FA IRLY TY PIC AL AF RICA N COUN TRY

The Chairman. What you said about Zambia can be said more 

or less of every country in Africa. We have said it even more strongly 

about the Congo, have we not? We have taken the lead in sending 

in United Nations forces and extending aid. I wonder if you feel 

that the United States has a responsibility to institute aid programs 

in all of these countries.

Mr. Good. I think, Mr. Chairman, you can make similar statements in a general way. I think it is, however, possible to identify 

some of the focal points in terms of the developing politics of Africa 

and, in my estimation, Zambia is certainly one of these.

APP AREN T HO ST IL IT Y OF AID R E C IP IE N T NA TIONS

The Chairman. Is i t not a fact t ha t in a great many of the states 

where we have given the greatest amount of aid, it has inspired the
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 9

most vicious antagonism—for example, Egypt, and Indonesia? Is 

that not so? France, one of the largest recipients, is now the most 

unpleasant.

Mr. Good. I would not accept the proposition, Mr. ChairmaD, th at 

our aid has inspired the antagonism, I think the question would have to 

be asked what the alternatives were and where we would be if we had 

not made the atte mpt to establish a meaningful presence in these 

areas by means of aid. In my estimation, in most of these cases, 

out position would be worse today had we not established an aid 

presence in these areas.

E G Y PT AN D U N IT E D STA T E S A ID

The Chairman. Do you think the situation would be worse in 

Egypt today if we had not had such a large aid program?

Mr. Good. I suspect so, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. How could it be much worse? What do you think 

would have happened?

Mr. Good. May I say I am not prepared to speculate in any detail 

about the U.A.R. which is not my bailiwick and w’hich I did not concentrate on.

The Chairman. You know it as well as I do. You have read the 

papers about it, have you not? The idea that aid is a panacea for 

our international relations, I think, may be carried too far.

It surprises me tha t we send an aid program to Zambia before we 

even send an ambassador. It shows a little overeagerness, does it 

not, to extend aid? How did we negotiate this without an ambassador?

Mr. Good. May I respond to the United Arab Republic question 

and then return to clarify the situation in Zambia with regard to our 

aid program. I would not suggest for a moment that it would be 

wise to consider aid a panacea anywhere in the world. I think this 

is one tool and an essential one in most situations in our kit bag. I 

think the purpose of aid—in addition to long-term economic development—in most areas of Africa that I am familiar with is to assist 

these countries in developing a certain level of stability, and also to 

establish in meaningful and constructive terms a certain degree of 

American influence.

R E A SO N FO R E X IS T E N C E O F A ID PRO G R A M IN ZA M BI A

With regard to the question of Zambia, Mr. Chairman, once again, 

may I just recall the liistory of this area? Zambia, then Northern 

Rhodesia, was one of three parts of the Federation of Rhodesia and 

Nyasaland. We began the aid program for the Federation several 

years ago. It was negotiated at tha t time by our consul general 

located in Salisbury. The aid program preceded the independence of 

Zambia, but under the auspices of the Federal Government located 

in Salisbury. The aid director who has gone to Zambia has gone to 

continue a program which has been in existence there for about 2 

years.

The Chairman. Senator Smathers, do you have any questions?
10 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

T E R M IN A T IO N O F U .S . AID PR OGRAM S

Senator Smathers. If we begin aid in a certain country, are we 

ever able to stop aid programs without incurring the wrath of the 

country who gets the aid?

Mr. Good. I would assume, Senator Smathers, that stopping an 

aid program would present certain difficulties. I would emphasize 

in the case of Zambia tha t our aid is not economic, but technical 

assistance. We are in a position to supply people who are able to 

teach others skills. This is a modest program at the present time, a 

little over a million dollars for the current fiscal year.

SIZ E OF U .S . A ID PR OGRAM IN ZA M BI A

Senator Smathers. Do you anticipate tha t it will grow larger or less large?

Mr. Good. The Department has asked for a very modest increase 

in the aid program for Zambia for fiscal year 1966. I believe we have 

asked for an increase of some $400,000.

AID TO ZA MBI A SH A R E D BY T H E U N IT E D K IN G D O M

May I also say, Senator Smathers, tha t the United Kingdom, 

which was the former metropolitan power in this part of Africa, is 

maintaining a rather large economic development and technical 

assistance program for Zambia. They are carrying the lion’s share, 

some $19 million in 1965.

Senator Smathers. Do you think you could get them to carry more of a share and we less?

Mr. Good. I do not know, sir.

Senator Smathers. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Senator Carlson?

Zambia’s alinement with united states in u.n. congo vote

Senator Carlson. Mr. Good, I believe Zambia was one of the new 

nations admitted to membership in the United Nations this year; is 

tha t not right?

Mr. Good. That is true, sir, in December.

Senator Carlson. Since I was a delegate last year and am a delegate this year, I am somewhat familar with the situation. I am also 

familiar with some of the problems tha t we had with the African 

nations as a result of our Congo operation. Do you think if the issue 

had come to a vote, Zambia would have voted with the United States 

this year?

Mr. Good. Senator Carlson, it would depend on what the vote was. 

President Kenneth Kaunda is concerned about the Congo situation 

quite clearly because he neighbors on the Congo. Zambia is immediately south and east of the Katanga Province. We have had a number of conversations with President Kaunda about the Congo situation, 

and he is most anxious to help develop a meaningful alternative to the 

present military developments tha t are so disturbing in the north ­

eastern part of the country.

Senator Carlson. The Congo situation is, of course, one of the 

problems tha t was, and is, confronting this session of the United 

Nations. It has been a real problem.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS H

You have been interro ga ted at len gth ab ou t ou r aid to Zam bia. 

I t occurs to me th at thi s is pro bably one of the we althi est areas of 

Africa, and if there is any n ation in Africa th at we sho uld not be co ntrib ­

uting very mu ch aid to, it migh t be thi s one. Ce rta inly, they have 

gr ea t we alth there a nd Z am bia o ug ht to be enc ouraged to stan d on its 

own. I wish y ou well in yo ur task.

Mr. Good. Tha nk y ou ve ry much.

Th e Chairma n. Th e Se na tor from Delaw are?

• L A N G U A G E AN D PO PU L A T IO N OP ZA M BI A

Se na tor Will iam s. Mr. Good, wha t is the pred om inan t language 

in Zam bia?

Mr. Good. Th ere are a nu mber of tri ba l languages. Th e predo minan t working lan guage is Englis h, Senator.

Th e C hair man. Se na tor Case?

Se na tor Case. How man y people in Zam bia?

Mr. Good. Ab ou t million.

natural resour ces and self-sufficiency of country

Se na tor Case. W ha t kind of reso urces does th e co un try hav e? 

You spoke of copper. Do es it h ave reso urces on which it can su pp ort 

itse lf intern ally?

Mr. Good. Th is is a ve ry serious pro blem in Zamb ia, finding m eans 

to diversify the econom y as mu ch as it possibly can. At the prese nt 

tim e, it is larg ely depe nd en t upo n copper for its foreign exchange 

earnings. It is r ela tiv ely self-sufficient in agriculture .

Se na tor Case. Re lat ive ly. Wo uld you give me more inf orm ation 

ab ou t this? Can it rea lly feed itse lf comfortabl y?

Mr. Good. Yes, I believe it can, Senator . At th e sam e tim e there 

is a gr ea t po tential in Zamb ia in ter ms of irriga tio n schemes for 

dev eloping an export eco nom y in the ag ric ult ura l sector, and there is 

a good deal of pla nning now under wa y. As a m at te r of fact, this is 

one of th e objectives of ou r very small technica l assista nce pro gra m, 

ru ral dev elo pm ent in this respec t.

T E C H N IC A L AID FO R R U R A L D E V E L O PM E N T PR OGRAM

Se na tor Case. D o you mean rural develop me nt of agric ult ure 

for expo rt purposes? W ha t ab ou t int ern ally? Ca n it su pp ort itself 

the way the Un ite d St ates can in gr ea t com fort?

Mr. Good. Yes, tho ugh obviously at a mu ch lower level of 

con sum ption.

Se na tor Case. I s the agric ult ure very primitiv e?

Mr. Good. Yes, for the mo st pa rt, it is.

Se nator Case. I s the re an y ag ric ult ura l aid being given for thi s 

purpose?

Mr. Good. Yes, par t of the ru ral develop me nt pro gra m is aim ed 

at t he fu rth er devel opme nt of w hat is n ow a s ort of ma rgi nal low level, 

qu ite primitiv e ag ric ult ural economy.

Se na tor C ase.. You say we have spent ab ou t $1 million and we are 

asking for $1,400,000. Specifically, wh at are the pro grams? Wo uld 

you outline them for me?
12 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

Mr. Good. What would be envisioned in the expanded program, 

you mean, Senator?

Senator Case. What have you done and what are you planning 

to do?

Mr. Good. The rural development program is designed to assist 

Zambia by placing at the disposition of the Zambian Government a few 

American technicians who will be available very much the way our 

extension workers are available in this country to help staff small 

centers throughout the country, where people are taught. Developing 

more sophisticated methods in terms of planting, harvesting, plowing, 

and so forth.

Senator Case. Of the $1.4 million you are asking for, what are the 

major uses of it?

Mr. Good. Much of this is for the salaries and expenses of our small 

technical assistance team.

Senator Case. Of American experts in the field?

Mr. Good. Yes. And I think it should be emphasized tha t when 

we talk about a technical assistance program of this kind, we are 

really talking about salaries for Americans and their living expenses.

Senator Case. Is this largely in the agricultural programs?

Mr. Good. This is a substantial part, sir.

Yes, as far as the rural development program is concerned. We are 

also giving a certain amount of assistance in the area of education— 

tha t is to say, participant training and some equipment. But it is this 

kind of thing, Senator, tha t this program would represent.

B R IT IS H F IN A N C IA L AID M OST LY FO R P E R S O N N E L

Senator Case. What is the British money being s pent for?

Mr. Good. I am not familiar in any detail with the breakdown of 

tha t money, but again, it would be for a number of British expatriate 

technical assistants. It should be emphasized, as has already been 

pointed out, t hat Zambia does have a foreign exchange surplus. They 

are no t short of money. They are short of skills and I think most of 

the British financial help would be once again for personnel; a great 

many more personnel from the U.K. are there than from the U.S. 

Zambia’s investigation about loan

The Chairman. Has not Zambia applied for a very large loan to 

construct a railroad on its east coast?

Mr. Good. Senator, that has been under review for a considerable 

period of time. There have been a number of surveys conducted, a 

survey by the UNECA, a survey by the IBRD. The Zambia Government has not made a final decision with regard to this.

The Chairman. They are contemplating such a railroad, are they 

not?

Mr. Good. Yes, I believe they are.

The Chairman. Haven’t they investigated the possibility from 

the World Bank of a loan amounting to several hundred million 

dollars?

Mr. Good. They have asked the Bank to do a comprehensive survey, Mr. Chairman. The Bank’s recommendation was that a rail 

line would not be as economic and as serviceable in opening up Zambia as an elaborate road system. No final decision, to my knowledge,
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATION S 13

sir, has been made by the Zambian Government as to exactly how it 

will proceed. I do not believe they have actually submitted to the 

IBRD an actual application for this purpose.

E F F E C T O F AN O N Y M IT Y O F M U LT IL A TE R A L AI D

The Chairman. Why would it not be better to have whatever technical assistance they need given through U.N. technical assistance or 

another multilateral agency? Is it not a fact tha t when we have an 

internal disturbance such as in Selma or in Harlem, the countries 

where we have bilateral aid tend to react? Our domestic disturbances 

often inspire an attack on the U.S. Embassy or a burning of a library. 

We know they are unrelated incidents although the recipient countries 

think they are related.

Mr. Good. Are you suggesting, Mr. Chairman, tha t the number of 

Americans visible in one of these countries conditions the kind of 

reaction you get?

The Chairman. Yes. I have read tha t, in countries tha t have 

sensitive internal situations, a great many of the white settlers in 

Zambia are leaving and going back to South Africa. Is that correct?

Mr. Good. There has been some exodus. There are still about 

75,000 Europeans, both South Africans and British.

The Chairman. How many of the Negro race?

Mr. Good. Over 3 million, sir.

The Chairman. There are examples of this. In Algeria, and 

numerous other places, racial problems eventually erup t." I wonder 

if difficulties might not be minimized if aid were given on a multilateral basis rather than bilaterally. We still have some problems in 

this field and are likely to have for a number of years.

Mr. Good. Yes, Mr. Chairman, but I think I would make actually 

the alternative argument tha t if you have small numbers of Americans 

doing truly effective jobs and relating themselves constructively to 

the populations of these countries, this helps to offset what otherwise 

would be a totally dangerous reaction to the United States in the event 

of a Selma.

The Chairman. Can you think of any instances in which our presence has endeared us to the local population?

Mr. Good. I think this is presently the case in Zambia, sir.

The Chairman. Th at is the only one we know. It must be a 

unique country.

nominee’s E X P E R IE N C E IN F IE L D OF A FR IC A

You served as coordinator of President Kennedv’s task force on 

Africa in 1960?

Mr. Good. That is true, sir.

The Chairman. What did you do in connection with tha t task 

force?

Mr. Good. This was one of a great many task forces set up on a 

number of subjects, many of them foreign policy subjects. My particular task force was run from George Ball’s office at that time. He 

was asked to coordinate several of these and I was asked to bring 

together representatives of the academic and business community, 

principally in this case the academic community, to draw up a series
14 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

of recommendations for President-elect Kennedy and for Governor 

Williams, who a t tha t time had been named to his present post.

The Chairman. You had a Rockefeller Foundation fellowship, I 

believe?

Mr. Good. That is true, sir, in 1960. I traveled in Africa.

The Chairman. Was tha t for the purpose of studying in Africa?

Mr. Good. No, it was not connected with the task force. That 

preceded it. Tha t was for my academic interests at that time.

The Chairman. Where did you study in Africa at that time?

Mr. Good. I took my family to Paris. That was our headquarters 

for a good part of 1960. I traveled in north Africa and west Africa 

in connection with tha t research.

The Chairman. According to your biographical sketch, you were 

a member of the African Studies Association. What is that association?

Mr. Good. It is an association of people interested primarily in 

Africa, mainly academic people but also members of the business 

community.

U .S . A M BU LA N CES TO ZA MBI A

The Chairman. I note tha t we gave Zambia some ambulances in 

recognition of their independence. Do you know anything about 

that?

Mr. Good. Yes, this was pa rt of the independence gifts.

The Chairman. Were they delivered?

Mr. Good. I believe they have been delivered, yes.

The Chairman. Have they been used?

Mr. Good. I believe so, sir, though I do not have specific information on that.

The Chairman. Any other questions?

Thank you very much, Mr. Good.

Next is Mr. Robert Moore of Washington, presently counselor of 

embassy, deputy chief of mission, and consul general, Damascus, 

to be Ambassador to Mali.

(The biography of Mr. Moore follows:)

C. R o b e r t M oore

Present position: Counselor of embassy, deputy chief of mission, and consul 

general, Damascus.

Considered for: Ambassador to Mali.

Born: August 16, 1915, Galena, Ill.

Educa tion: Robert College, Ista nbu l, 1931-33; In stitu t de Poitiers, Tours, 

France, summ er of 1931; University of Berlin, summer of 1933;. H arvard University, B.A., 1935; New York University , M.A., 1940.

Ma rita l sta tus : Married.

Experience:

Non-Government: 1935-43, investm ent reviewer for banking firm. 

Government:

1943, liaison officer, Office of Lend-Lease Administration.

1943-45:, req. officer, Foreign Economic Administration.

1945-46, acting special represen tative, staff, FEA, Ankara.

1946 senior economic analyst, Foreign Service Auxiliary, Ankara;

app. in Foreign Service Staff.

1947, app. FSO-5, vice consul of career, and secretary in the diplomatic service; 2d secretary , Ankara.

1948, assigned to Department.

1949, FSO-4 and consul; officer-in-cliarge, Turkish affairs.

1951, acting officer-in-charge.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATION S 15

1952, FSO -3; consul and 1st secretary, Paris.

1955, detailed to National War College.

1956, counselor of embassy for economic affairs and deputy director, 

ICA, Ankara.

1957, FSO-2.

1959, counselor of embassy and deputy chief of mission, Phnom Penh.

1960, Also consul, Phnom Penh.

1962, counselor of embassy, dep uty chief of mission, and consul, 

Damascus.

1963, app. FSO-1 and consul general; consul general, Damascus (continues to serve also as counsel of embassy and dep uty chief of mission).

Military: 1942, USN R, ensign.

Memberships and clubs: Rotarian.

Office: American Embassy, Damascus, Syrian Arab Republic.

Home: Care of American Embassy, Damascus.

Legal residence: Washington.

STATEMENT OF C. ROBERT MOORE, NOMINEE TO BE AMBASSADOR 

TO MALI

The Chairman. Mr. Moore, we are very glad to have vou this 

morning.

Mr. Moore. Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

The C hairman. When did you come into the Foreign Service?

Mr. Moore. I came in, strictly speaking, in 1946, although in 1943, 

I joined the Lend-Lease Administration.

The Chairman. What are you doing now?

Mr. Moore. My last post was in Damascus.

The Chairman. How were things in Damascus when you left there?

Mr. Moore. Things were a little bit tough in Damascus.

The Chairman. Were we on friendly relations with their Government?

Mr. Moore. I am afraid our relations with the Government are a 

bit difficult. I think, however, tha t at level of the people, we have 

amazingly good feeling and friendship.

nominee’s service in the middle east

The Chairman. You have served in the Middle East quite a while, 

have you not?

Mr. Moore. Yes, in the sense th at I served in Turkey a number of 

years and in Syria.

The Chairman. How long were you in Turkey?

Mr. Moore. I did my 2 years of study there as a youth and then 

served two tours, once during the war and once from 1956 to 1959.

The Chairman. Subsequently, you were in Phnom Penh?

Mr. Moore. Then I was in Phnom Pehn.

The Chairman. You have had some very interesting positions. 

I would not say they were the easiest.

Mr. Moore. I found tha t to be the case, sir.

BASIC FACTS ABOUT MALI

The Chairman. Tell me a little about Mali. I am not sure I 

know much about Mali.

Mr. Moore. To be perfectly frank, I have been learning about 

Mali in depth since last Tuesday. I did have an opportunity to
16 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

make a trip from Paris in 1954 and to spend 3 days in Mali. Hence 

I have had, if not a feel for the country, a certain interest in its wellbeing. At tha t time, of course, it was one of the eight territories of 

French West Africa.

Basically, it is a country tha t has rather limited resources, but one 

of the principal resources is its people, who seem to be quite dynamic, 

quite hard working, quite determined, with quite a spirit of independence. The country itself had close ties with France as one of the 

territories of French West Africa, and was thus a dependency of France 

for many years. After independence, there was a reaction, of course, 

as the Malians did not want to identify further with the former 

mother country, but I am happy to say that in the last year, relations 

with France seem to have become quite cordial again. Arrangements 

are underway with Paris at this time, I believe, for further discussions 

between the two. During the interim period, however, I think it is 

the bloc th at has had the primary influence in Mali.

RED CHINE SE ACTIVITY IN MALI

The Chairman. I have heard rumors that the Red Chinese are very 

active in Mali?

Mr. Moore. The Chinese have been active in Mali.

The C hairman. What are they doing there?

Mr. Moore. They have programs of aid in Mali.

The Chairman. What kind of aid?

Mr. Moore. Some forms of aid have not yet taken concrete form, 

but there are promises of a textile plant.

U.S . AID PROGRAM IN MALI

The Chairman. Are we going to match this aid?

Mr. Moore. We are not, sir.

The Chairman. Do we have an aid program there?

Mr. Moore. We have a small technical assistance program.

The Chairman. How much?

Mr. Moore. This year, 1965, it will apparently come to about $1 

million.

The Chairman. We have not given them any arms?

Mr. Moore. No, I think, back in 1960, we gave them a few trucks.

But we have not been a supplier of arms.

FRE NCH ASSISTA NCE TO MALI

The Chairman. Do the French provide aid to Mali?

Mr. Moore. Yes, since independence in 1960, I think French aid

has totaled about $75 million. Bloc aid—not necessarily utilized but 

promised—has totaled about $100 million. Tha t is the amount of the 

commitment. How much has actually been drawn down is something 

we do not know.

REDUCTION IN U.S . AID

The Chairman. According to our figures, the actual U.S. economic 

assistance in Mali in 1964 was $3 million.

Mr. Moore. Well, there was a reduction, I know, in 1965.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 17

The Chairman. That is right, and $1,206,000 in 1965 and anticipated $985,000 in 1966. This is most unusual. How do you account 

for that?

Mr. Moore. Our programs have been related to specific projects 

to begin with and some of these projects have been phasing out. 

Also, I think it is perfectly true tha t the atmosphere at times has 

been somewhat difficult and, faced with our worldwide aid commitments, and we have had to be rather cautious and careful in our aid 

to more and more countries.

*

CAREE R FO REI GN SE RVIC E OFF IC ER

The Chairman. Did you ask for this assignment?

Mr. Moore. No, I did not, sir. I go where I am sent. I never ask 

for an assignment.

The Chairman. You are a career Foreign Service officer?

Mr. Moore. That is right, sir.

The Chairman. There were no political appointees applying for 

this job?

Mr. Moore. I am not aware of any, sir.

The Chairman. Senator Smathers?

Senator Smathers. No questions.

The Chairman. Senator Aiken?

Senator Aiken. No questions.

The Chairman. Senator Carlson?

Senator Carlson. No questions, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Senator Williams?

Senator Williams. No questions.

The Chairman. Senator Case?

Senator Case. No questions.

EXPU LS IO N OF U .S . PO LITI CA L OFF IC ER FRO M SYRIA

The Chairman. I do not want to delay the committee, but since 

you have just been in Syria, would you tell us about the expulsion of 

our political officer there?

Mr. Moore. I know very little about it. This happened after I left.

The Chairman. Did you know the gentleman?

Mr. Moore. Oh, yes.

The Chairman. You have no information for the committee about 

tha t incident?

Mr. Moore. No, except that there has been for the last few years, 

with the new regime, quite a feeling of suspicion toward the American 

Government with regard to its attitude toward the present revolutionary regime.

The Chairman. Thank you, very much, Mr. Moore. We are very 

pleased to have had you.

The next is Mr. Raymond R. Guest, of Virginia, presently director 

of Bessemer Securities, Inc., to be Ambassador to Ireland.

(The biographic sketch of Mr. Guest follows:)
18 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

Raymond R. Guest

Present position: Dire ctor of Bessemer Securities, Inc.

Considered for: Ambassador to Ireland.

Born: New York City, November 25, 1907.

Education : B.A. (1931), Yale University.

Marital s tatus: Married.

Experience:

Non-Govern men t:

1931-55, operated farm, Fro nt Royal, Va.

1948 to present, director of Bessemer Securities, Inc., New York City.

1955 to present, owns and operates horse breeding and racing farm 

at the Powhatan Plantation in King George, Va.

Governm ent:

1946-47, Special Assistant to Fiscal Director of the U.S. Navy.

1948-53, Virginia Sta te senator.

Member of Virginia Commission on Fisheries and Game since 1959. 

Military: 1941-46, U.S. Navy, commander.

Retired 1964, commander, U.S. Naval Reserve.

Office: Bessemer Securities, Inc., New York City.

Washington residence: Powhata n Plantation, King George, Va.

Legal residence: Virginia.

STATEMENT OF RAYMOND R. GUEST, NOMINEE FOR AMBASSADOR 

TO IRELAND

The Chairman. We are pleased to have you, sir.

Would you state briefly for the record a little of your experience.

Have you ever represented the Government in any capacity?

Mr. Guest. No, sir.

The Chairman. What is the Bessemer Securities Co. in New York? 

Mr. Guest. It is a holding company, sir.

The Chairman. Do you have any interests which would in any way 

be likely to conflict with your duties as Ambassador to Ireland?

Mr. Guest. No, sir.

The Chairman. Has this been discussed with the State Department? 

Mr. Guest. I have been discussing it with them; yes, sir.

The Chairman. You have been to Ireland?

Mr. Guest. Many times, sir.

The Chairman. Senator Smathers, any questions?

Senator Smathers. No questions.

You have the endorsement, I understand, of your Senators?

Mr. Guest. Yes, sir.

Senator Smathers. Senator Byrd and Senator Robertson?

Mr. Guest. Yes, sir.

Senator Smathers. No questions.

The Chairman. Senator Aiken.

Senator Aiken. I do not think so.

The Chairman. Senator Carlson?

Senator Carlson. No questions.

The Chairman. Senator Williams?

Senator Williams. No questions.

The Chairman. Senator Case?

Senator Case. No questions.

The Chairman. Mr. Guest, apparently, my colleagues are quite 

satisfied.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATION S 19

Ireland’s role in international organizations

Senator Aiken. I might ask one question.

Are you familiar with the Irish political situation?

Mr. Guest. Yes, sir.

Senator Aiken. Do you know what p art Ireland plays in NATO? 

Mr. Guest. Well, 1 know th at they have played a very big role, sir, 

a peacekeeping role.

Senator Aiken. They do not belong to NATO.

Mr. Guest. I beg your pardon, sir. I thought you said U.N. 

I beg your pardon.

Senator Aiken. Th at is all right.

The Chairman. Do you have anything else you would like to say 

about your assignemnt to Ireland, Mr. Guest?

Mr. Guest. Mr. Chairman, if confirmed, I will conduct myself so 

tha t my behavior will reflect dignity and honor on my country, sir.

The Chairman. Are you well acquainted in Ireland?

Mr. Guest. Yes, sir.

GEN ER AL FACTS AB OU T IR EL AND

The Chairman. Do we have any outstanding problems with Ireland 

at the present time?

Mr. Guest. None t ha t I know of, sir.

The Chairman. Who at the present time is Prime Minister of 

Ireland. It slips my mind.

Mr. Guest. Mr. Lemass, sir.

The Chairman. What has happened to Mr. de Valera?

Mr. Guest. He is President, sir.

The Chairman. Any further questions?

Senator Williams. Do we have an aid program in Ireland now, 

and, if so, to what extent?

Mr. Guest. I believe not, sir.

Senator Aiken. Do you know the Foreign Minister of Ireland?

Mr. Guest. Do I know him, Sir?

Senator Aiken. Yes.

Mr. Guest. I believe that is Mr. Aiken.

Senator Aiken. He is a very good man.

The Chairman. Will you be sure to see t hat we get a foreign aid 

program with them if you are made Ambassador?

Mr. Guest. I will certainly take my orders on that from you, sir.

IR EL AN D RECEI VES U. S. SU GA R QUOTA

The Chairman. I believe we do give them a sugar qu ota ; do we not? 

Mr. Guest. I believe they make their own sugar from beets.

The Chairman. I was surprised to know tha t they are an exporter 

of sugar. Did you know that?

Mr. Guest. They might export i t to Britain, I imagine, sir.

The Chairman. No, to the United States. I believe the last sugar 

bill provided for a quota of 10,000 tons to Ireland. Do you know 

about that?

Mr. Guest. No, sir.

The Chairman. You did not have anything to do with their 

receiving a quota, did you?
20 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

Mr. Guest. No, sir.

The Chairman. It is a very interesting development. I never 

imagined Ireland competing with Jamaica in the export of sugar.

Senator Aiken. Is that pounds or tons?

The Chairman. It is tons.

Senator Aiken. Was th at imported from others?

The Chairman. It was a brokerage arrangement. They imported 

it from one country and exported it to us a t twice the price. There 

is more than one way of giving aid, of course.

Senator Williams. Do we have an ambassador to Ireland?

Mr. Guest. No, sir. I believe there has been a vacancy there for 

about a year.

The Chairman. Any further questions?

Thank you, Mr. Guest.

The next is Ambassador Angier Biddle Duke, of New York, presently Chief of Protocol for the White House, with the personal rank of 

ambassador, to be Ambassador to Spain.

(A brief biographic sketch of Mr. Duke follows:)

Angie r Bid dle D uk e

Position: Chief of Protocol for the White House, with the personal rank of 

ambassador.

Considered for: Ambassador to Spain.

Born: New York, N.Y ., November 30, 1915.

Education: Graduate, St. Pau l’s School, 1934; studen t, Yale, 1934-37; Iona 

College, LL.D. (honorary), 1957.

Marital sta tus: Married.

Experience:

Non-G overnm ent:

1945-48: President, Duke Intern ational Corp., New York City.

1953- 54: Vice chairman, Mayor’s Pue rto Rican Affairs Com mittee.

1954- 60: President, Intern ational Rescue Committee (relief and 

refugee agency); also active as follows: 1954-60, executive committee, 

U.N. Commission of New York City; 1955-60, vice president, CARE 

and American Immigration and Citizenship Comm ittee; 1955-61, Long 

Island State Park Commissioner; 1958, Cochairman, Zellerbach Commission on European Refugee Situation .

Governm ent:

1949: Appointed Foreign Service Reserve officer secretary in the 

diplomatic service, and consul; to Buenos Aires as consul, second secretar y (Foreign Service Reserve).

1951- 52: Madrid as consul and second secretary (Foreign Service 

Reserve) special assistant to the Ambassador; Foreign Service Reserve 

app ointment terminated May 1952.

1952- 53: Ambassador Extraord inary and Plenipoten tiary to El 

Salvador.

1961 to present: Chief of Protocol for the White House with the 

personal rank of ambassador.

Milita ry: 1940-45: Served from private to major, Army of the United 

States; assigned to U.S. Air Force in Europe 1943-45.

Memberships and Clubs: Spanish Institut e of New Yo rk; chairman, Democratic 

Sta te Committe e on Nationalities and Intergro up Relations; trustee, Iona 

College; director, Duke University Development Board; member, National 

Council Foreign Relations; Foreign Service Association; the Pilgrim s; SAR; 

Society Colonial Wars. Clubs: Brook, River, Racquet and Tennis (New York 

City); Travellers (Paris, France).

Decorations: Grand Officier, Ordre d’Honneur et Merite (H aiti); Commander, 

Natio nal Order Vietnam; Gran d Cross of Merit, Order of Malta.

Office: Depar tment of State, Washington, D.C.

Washington address: 2400 Foxhall Road, Washington, D.C.

Legal residence: New York.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 21

STATEMENT OF ANGIER BIDDLE DUKE, NOMINEE FOR AMBASSADOR TO SPAIN

The Chairman. Good morning, Mr. Duke. Would you for the 

record just very briefly outline your experience in the Government, 

how long you have been in the service?

Mr. Duke. I am entering my 14th year of Government service, 

Mr. Chairman. 1 joined the Foreign Service in 1949, as a Foreign 

Service Reserve officer. I was assigned to the Embassy in Buenos 

Aires. After nearly 2 years there, I was assigned as special assistant 

to the Ambassador in Spain, where I served until February of 1952 

when President Truman appointed me as Ambassador to El Salvador. 

I resigned from El Salvador and came home in June of 1953. President 

Kennedy assigned me as Chief of Protocol with personal rank of 

ambassador in 1961, where I have served until December of 1964.

The Chairman. You speak Spanish, do you not?

Mr. Duke. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Are you well acquainted in Spain?

Mr. Duke. I am a bit dated, Mr. Chairman. My service there 

was 13 years ago. But I have kept links and associations there.

The Chairman. Yes, sir, Senator Aiken?

Senator Aiken. I might ask him what part does Spain play in 

NATO?

Mr. Duke. Senator, as you know, Spain is no t a member of NATO.

Senator Aiken. Yes, 1 know. That is all.

The Chairman. Senator Carlson?

Senator Carlson. I wish you well.

The Chairman. Senator Case, do you have any questions of Mr. 

Duke?

Senator Case. No.

senator pell’s endorsement of nominee

The Chairman. Senator Pell, who is a member of this committee, 

but could not be here this morning, informed me that he wished to 

make a statement in support of Ambassador Duke. He has a very 

high regard for Ambassador Duke.

We will insert his statemen t at this point.

(The stateme nt of Senator Pell follows:)

Mr. Chairman, it is with p articular delight t hat I speak in behalf of the nomination of Angier Biddle Duke, who has been a friend of mine for more tha n 30 years, 

to be Ambassador to Spain. I have always admired Angier Duke and found him 

to be a man of integrity and intelligence. Having worked for him when he was 

Preside nt and I Vice President of the Internation al Rescue Committee I can vouch 

also for the fa ct t hat he has remarkable organizational ability, and skill a t working 

out problems and working with people. In fact, he has developed to a great ex tent 

th at old necessary skill of diplomacy of atta ining his objective without ruffling 

feath ers. He has developed to the maximum th at old diplomatic technique of 

always letting the other fellow have his—Duke’s—way. This is the kind of 

diplom acy we should wage abroad a nd i t is th e kind th at Mr. Duke will practice.

Moreover, his organiza tional ability will stand him in good stead in a natio n 

like Spain which is chockablock with American civilian and military personnel, 

not to count the various exotic problem s left behind by American tourists.

Like his uncle before him, Ambassador Anthony Drexel Biddle, whom I visited 

in Poland before World War II and with whom my fath er served in London during 

the war, Angier Duke studies, wrestles w ith and grasps every problem with which 

he is faced.

I consider our Nation f ort unate in having our man in Madrid be Angier Biddle 

Duke.
22 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

The Chairman. Mr. Duke, we are very pleased to have you.

Do you have any questions you want to ask him?

Senator Sparkman. No, I just wish him well.

STATEMENT OF HON. JACOB K. JAVITS, U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF NEW YORK

Senator Javits. Mr. Chairman, may I have just 1 minute to 

pu t on the record my very high opinion of Angier Biddle Duke, who 

has appeared already before the committee, and my commendation 

to the committee, based on years of personal knowledge, friendship, 

and experience. I think he is a public servant of unparalleled quality 

and I hope very much the committee will confirm him.

The Chairman. Thank you very much.

Senator Case. We have another man from New York, whose nomination is before the committee, Averell Harriman.

Senator Javits. Averell Harrim an, Mr. Chairman, was my boss 

when he was Governor. I was attorney general. I was his lawyer. 

His distinguished career is so well known to all tha t it speaks for itself 

far bette r than anything I might say—and I could, I assure you, say 

a great deal. It is a pleasure to be here to support his confirmation.

The Chairman. Next is Mr. Thomas C. Mann of Texas, presently 

Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs, nominee for 

the position of Under Secretary for Economic Affairs.

(The biographic sketch of Mr. Mann follows:)

T ho mas C. M ann

Present position: Assistant Secretary for Inter-American Affairs.

Considered for: Under Secretary for Economic Affairs.

Born: Laredo, Tex., November 11, 1912.

Edu cation: Baylor University, B.A. and LL. B., 1934; University of Colorado, 

student, 1930.

Marital s tatus: Married.

Experience:

Non-Government— 1934-42: Pa rtn er in law firm, Mann & Mann. 

Government:

Year 1942: Appointed special assistant, Foreign Service auxiliary, 

Montevideo.

Year 1943: Divisional assistant, Division of World Tra de Intelligence, 

Depar tment of State.

Year 1944: Assistant Chief.

Year 1945: Assistant Chief, Division of Economic Security Controls; 

Acting Chief, Division of River Plate Affairs; assista nt chief.

Year 1946: Chief, Division of River Plate Affairs.

Year 1947: Appointed Foreign Service officer 4, consul, and secretary 

in the diplom atic service; special assistant, Office of Assistant Secretary 

for American Republic Affairs; second secretary, Caracas.

Year 1949: To Depar tment; Foreign Service officer 3; special assistant, Office of Middle American Affairs.

Year 1950: Director, Office of Middle American Affairs; Deputy 

Assistant Secretary for Inter-Am erican Affairs.

Year 1952: Foreign Service officer 2.

Year 1953: Counselor of Emb assy and dep uty chief of mission, 

Athens.

Year 1954: Counselor of Embassy and deputy chief of mission, 

Guatemala.

Year 1955: Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to El 

Salvador.

Year 1956: Foreign Service officer 1; personnel represen tative of the 

Preside nt with the ran k of special ambassador to att end the inaugural 

ceremonies of th e President of El Salvador.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 23

Year 1957: A m ember of the U.S. delegation to at tend the ceremonies 

for the inau guration of the President of Nicarag ua; Assistant Secretary 

of State for Economic Affairs.

Year 1958: Consul general.

Year 1959: The rep resentativ e of the United States on th e Committe e 

on Intern ationa l Commodity Trade of th e Economic and Social Council 

of th e U.N.

Year 1960: The representative of the United States to the 16th session 

of th e Economic Commission for Asia an d the Far E ast of the Economic 

and Social Council of the U.N.; Assistant Secrerary of State for InterAmerican Affairs.

Year 1961: A mbassador Extra ordinary and Plenipotentia ry to Mexico.

Year 1962: Foreign Service officer, class of career minister.

Year 1964: Assistan t Secretary for Inter-Am erican Affairs. 

Memberships and clubs: Texas and U.S. Supreme Court bars.

Office: Care of Depar tment of State, Washington, D.C.

Home: 4355 Lowell Street NW., Washington, D.C.

Legal residence: Texas.

STATEMEN T OF THOMAS C. MANN, NOMINEE FOR UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ECONOMIC AFFAIRS

The Chairman. I believe you have been before this committee 

before in some capacity or other; have you not?

Mr. Mann. It seems to me I have.

The Chairman. Just for the record, when did you first enter the 

Foreign Service?

Mr. Mann. I entered what was called the auxiliary Foreign Service 

in 1942 and I believe it was in 1947 when I went in as a Foreign Service officer and took the examination.

The Chairman. You would qualify, I believe, as a career Foreign 

Service officer; would you not?

Mr. Mann. Yes, sir.

R E S P O N S IB IL IT IE S IN N EW A SSIG N M E N T

The Chairman. What responsibilities in your new assignment as 

Under Secretary of State for Economic Affairs will you have in regard 

to the foreign aid program?

Mr. Mann. I will work with Mr. Bell. I have not yet talked to 

him about how I can be of help to him in his work, but I woidd be 

interested in it.

The Chairman. You cannot avoid being interested in it, I am sure. 

We just heard the nominee for the first Ambassador to Zambia. Zambia as you know, was formerly a p art of the British Commonwealth, as 

part of Rhodesia, and is now independent. I was surprised to learn 

we already had aid representation there before we had a political 

officer. This seemed to me to be a little bit overeagerness to extend 

aid. I think we might wait until we have a regular political officer 

present in the newly formed countries before extending aid to them. 

I offer tha t as a suggestion.

Mr. Mann. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. I think we should not be too eager to solicit for 

our aid program.

Mr. Mann. We shall bear that in mind.

The Chairman. There will be further discussion about the aid 

program. I shall be very interested in your views about it, but I do 

not wish to detain you this morning.
24 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

We have had you before this committee on numerous occasions, and 

are well acquainted with your work. Personally, I think you have 

done an outstanding job. I will not delay the committee by asking 

you questions, unless you wish to volunteer some answers.

Mr. Mann. No, sir; I do not wish to take up the committee’s time 

unless they have questions.

The Chairman. You have been in the Service long enough to know 

tha t it is sometimes dangerous to volunteer.

Mr. Sparkman.

nominee’s experience with the aid program

Senator Sparkman. Mr. Mann, in your previous assignments, 

probably in your two previous assignments, you had a good bit to do 

with the aid program, didn’t you, particularly the Alliance for Progress?

Mr. Mann. Yes, sir; in two posts as Ambassador and in other posts 

as counselor, I worked on the aid program in the field, and then for 3 

years, I was Assistant Secretary of State for Economic Affairs here in 

the Department. Then last year, as U.S. Coordinator of the Alliance 

for Progress, I was concerned with the aid program in Latin America.

PR O G R E SS OF T H E A L L IA N C E FO R PR O G R ESS

Senator Sparkman. Do you feel that the Alliance for Progress has 

made progress?

Mr. Mann. Yes, sir; I do. I think all the indexes in terms of 

increase in per capita income, increase in gross national product, wide 

increases on the economic front in 1964 have been gratifying, Senator.

Senator Sparkman. Some countries have gone further and faster 

in this?

Mr. Mann. Yes, some countries go faster than others; that is 

correct. But I was speaking about the general average of the 

hemisphere as a whole.

Senator Sparkman. I think a lot of people became rath er discouraged during the first couple of years the program was in effect. 

But I have felt that it is now beginning to take hold.

Mr. Mann. Tha t is our feeling. The various reforms, basic 

reforms that each country has instituted in the area—certainly, the decision of nearly all the countries to work out their national 

plans so as to get the maximum mobilization of their own resources 

and to use those to promote economic development and social progress 

has been very encouraging. The creation of CIAP, I think, was a 

major step forward in bringing about a better understanding of the 

obstacles in the way of progress and what might be done to remove 

them.

BROAD EC ONOM IC SPEC TR U M OF N E W PO SIT IO N

Senator Sparkman. Of course, in your new position, you will give 

attention to development programs all over the world.

Mr. Mann. Yes, sir. Of course, my new assignment, Senator, 

also relates to a very broad economic spectrum—aviation, shipping, 

all commodity problems, a great many trade problems, the whole 

field of our economic relations with the rest of the world, except,
STATE DEPA RTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 25

of course, the Kennedy round, which, as you know, Governor Herter 

is working on directing.

Senator Sparkman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Senator Carlson?

IN FL ATI ON IN LA TI N AM ER ICAN COU NT RI ES

Senator Carlson. Mr. Mann, you have been discussing our problems dealing with inter-American affairs. Is it not true tha t there are 

rath er difficult problems of inflation in some countries?

Mr. Mann. We have many problems, including inflation problems, 

Senator; tha t is certainly correct.

Senator Carlson. You mentioned the growth in both national 

product and increased expansion of the economy. Would it be unfair 

to state that in some instances, the problems are largely a result of 

inflation?

Mr. Mann. I was referring to growth in real terms which, of course, 

is quite different from growth in terms of the inflationary impact.

Senator Carlson. That is all.

The Chairman. Senator Case?

LA TIN AM ER ICAN GR OW TH IN PER CA PITA IN CO ME

Senator Case. You said that there was an encouraging increase in 

per capita income.

Mr. Mann. Yes, sir.

Senator Case. In real terms, again?

Mr. Mann. In real terms, yes, sir; the goal of the Alliance for Progress was 2.5 percent increase per annum for every man, woman, and 

child, which in view of the population growth, is a very high mark. 

We ourselves in the State Departm ent are not sure we have reached 

this. The people in ECLA, which is the U.N. organization, felt tha t 

this goal was passed. This does not mean tha t the wealth was always 

that evenly distributed, or even the increase, Senator. But the 

growth is there and the opportunity for a better distribution of it is 

therefore present.

PR OG RE SS IN PO PU LA TI ON CO NTRO L

Senator Case. Is there some progress being made in regard to the 

matter of population control?

Mr. Mann. Well, as the Senator knows, in the Latin American part 

of the AID program, we are spending about $1 million a year under a 

provision of law which authorizes us to engage in research and training, 

exchange of information, and things of that kind. We are working 

very hard at that, because we consider this a part of the problem of 

economic growth and social progress.

Senator Case. Is this generally recognized and accepted as a

problem by the countries themselves?

Mr. Mann. I think there is a growing realization that this is related to all the things that the Charter of the Alliance for Progress 

talks about; yes, sir.
26 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATION S

E F F E C T IV E N E S S OF IN T E R -A M E R IC A N D E V E L O PM E N T BA N K

Senator Case. Quite a substantial amount of our aid in the Alliance 

for Progress is administered through a multilateral organization, the 

Inter-American Bank, is it not?

Mr. M ann. Yes, the Inter-American Bank in Latin America.

Senator Case. Do you think that is an efficient way to administer 

aid?

Mr. Mann. I think the Inter-American Bank plays an important 

role, Mr. Chairman, in the free world’s total aid efforts. I support it.

Senator Case. Do the Latin Americans support it?

Mr. Mann. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Do you have anything else you would like to say 

to the committee?

Mr. Mann. No, sir.

The C hairman. Thank you, very much.

Next is Mr. Geoffrey W. Lewis, of Virginia, presently Counselor, 

Consul General, Amman, to be Ambassador to Mauritania.

Mr. Lewis, we are very pleased to have you.

(The biographical sketch of Mr. Lewis follows:)

Geoff rey W. Lewis

Present position: Counselor, consul general, Amman.

Considered for: Ambassador to Mau ritania.

Born: Brookline, Mass., May 20, 1910.

Edu cation: Harvard University, A.B., 1932, 1933-34; Trinity College, Cambridge University, 1932-33.

Marital status: Married.

Experience:

Non-Government:

1933-37: Assistant dean , assistant history instructor, Harvard University.

1937-40: Priv ate school headmaster.

Government:

1946: Staff member, Cabinet Committee on Palestine and Related 

Problems, London.

1946: Appointed P-7 , foreign affairs specialist, Depar tment of State.

1947: P-8.

1949: Acting Assistant Chief, Division of German Economic Affairs; 

GS-15; Acting Deputy Director, Bureau of German Affairs.

1950: GS-16; Deputy Director.

1953: Deputy Director, Office of German Affairs.

1953-54: Acting Director.

1955: Detailed to Nation al War College.

1956: R-2.

1956: 0- 2, consul, secretary , diplom atic service.

1956: Firs t secretary, consul Kara chi; later, counselor.

1958: Firs t secretary, Paris (US ltO).

1961: 0- 1, counselor, consul general, Amman.

Military: 1941-46— U.S. Army, lieu tena nt colonel, overseas.

Office address: American Embassy, Amman.

Legal residence: Virginia.

STATEMENT OF GEOFFREY W. LEWIS TO BE AMBASSADOR TO 

MAUR ITANIA

The Chairman. How long have you been in the Foreign Service? 

Mr. Lewis. About 24 years, sir. At least, I have been in the 

State Department or other Government service that long. I have 

been in the Foreign Service since 1956.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 27

The Chairman. You were not in other bureaus of the State 

Department prior to that?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir; I was in the German Bureau, and before tha t 

the Office of Occupied Areas.

The Chairman. You are presently in Amman, I believe?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir; I have just come from Amman, from 3 years 

there.

C O N D IT IO N S IN JO RD A N

The Chairman. How are political conditions in Amman?

Mr. Lewis. They are pretty good.

The Chairman. You have not had any riots? I have not read 

of any.

Mr. Lewis. Not lately, sir. We had one a couple of years ago 

but it was not very serious.

The Chairman. How do you account for that?

Mr. Lewis. Well, sir, I think the Government there under King 

Hussein, who is a very courageous man, has been quite stable and has 

met the demands of the people to such a degree tha t there has not 

been the incentive to riots tha t there had been in earlier days.

Also, since the Cairo summit meeting a year ago last January, there 

has been a rapprochement, as you know, between Cairo and Amman 

and, as many of the Palestinians are very favorably disposed toward 

Nasser, this has been popular with them; the King’s move toward 

rapprochement with Nasser has been popular with many of the 

people. I think tha t has added a great deal to the internal stability 

of Jordan.

The Chairman. Is Jordan making ecomouic progress?

Mr. Lewis. I think it is, sir, considering the very small, very poor 

resources it has at its disposal.

U .S . A ID PR OGRAM IN JO R D A N

The Chairman. We have a very large aid program there, do we 

not?

Mr. Lewis. Quite large, relatively speaking.

The Chairman. It has been in the neighborhood of $30 or $40 

million?

Mr. Lewis. It has been, all told, pushing $45 or $50 million.

The Chairman. We took the place of the British in tha t case.

Mr. Lewis. Yes, we did.

The Chairman. Is it a form of subsidy?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, a good deal of it.

The Chairman. Do you look upon it as a permanent subsidy?

Mr. Lewis. A good deal of our aid has been subsidy. We are 

trying to cut down tha t part of it, at least, because it is a type of 

assistance tha t I think no one really wants.

The Chairman. Have you ever served in Africa before?

Mr. L ewis. No sir, I have not.

The Chairman. Have you ever been to Mauritania?

Mr. Lewis. No, I have never been there.
28 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

BA SI C FA CTS A B O U T M A U RIT A N IA

The Chairman. Is Mauritania a desert country?

Mr. Lewis. Mostly desert, I am told, except for a strip along the 

Senegal River.

The Chairman. Was it Mali or Mauritania tha t broke off from 

Senegal?

Mr. Lewis. It was Mali.

The Chairman. Mauritania is independent. How many people 

there?

Mr. Lewis. About a million, spread all over the country.

The Chairman. How large is it?

Mr. L ewis. About the size of Texas and California combined.

The C hairman. Where do they live? Are they mostly nomads? 

Mr. Lewis. A lot of them are nomads. The population is heaviest 

along the Senegal, and there are a few towns like Nouakchott and 

Port Etienne.

The Chairman. What is the capital?

Mr. Lewis. Nouakchott.

The Chairman. You have not been there?

Mr. L ewis. No, sir.

The C hairman. How large is it?

Mr. L ewis. About 13,000 people at last count.

The C hairman. Do we have an Embassy there?

Mr. L ewis. Yes, we do. We have had one for the past several 

years, but there has been no resident Ambassador.

The C hairman. Is it habitable?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. I am told it is in pretty good shape. It was 

started in about 1962 or so.

IR O N ORE AN D C O P P E R M IN ES

The C hairman. What do they produce in Mauritania?

Mr. Lewis. Well, they have a good iron mine. It has been 

producing for the last several years. I think last year it produced 4 

million tons. It is run by a European combine. Just recently, the 

Homestake Co., here, together with a Canadian company, has become 

interested in a copper deposit which has long been known but has not 

been commercially exploitable until they developed a new process. 

We hope very much tha t the Homestake will go through with their 

plans and sta rt exploiting this copper.

LO CA L PO P U L A T IO N IS NO M ADIC

The Chairman. What do the local people do for a living? Are 

they herdsmen?

Mr. Lewis. Some of them fish along the seacoast. Some of them 

farm along the Senegal River, but a great many of them are typical 

nomads, with goats and camels and some sheep, I suppose. It is a 

pretty bleak country.

The Chairman. It ought to be a nice climate, dry and not like 

Washington.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 29

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir. A little bit hot, but they tell me it is cool at 

night and if it is cool at night, you can stand almost anything.

The Chairman. I take it you did not apply for this assignment?

Mr. Lewis. No, sir, but 1 am very honored at the appointment.

The Chairman. You are a good soldier and serve where you are 

sent?

Mr. Lewis. Sir, I am honored to be nominated as Ambassador.

AID PROG RA MS IN MAU RI TA NI A

The Chairman. I wan t to ask you about the aid program in 

Mauritania.

Mr. Lewis. It has been very small.

The Chairman. This is an old French colony, is it not?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir.

The C hairman. The French own everything of value there, do they 

not?

Mr. Lewis. I guess they did and they still control it.

The Chairman. Is there a need for us to extend aid to Mauritania?

Mr. Lewis. A judiciously aimed program, I think, is worthwhile, 

partly because the Soviets and the other Eastern bloc countries are 

beginning to show some interest.

The Chairman. If they wish to extend aid, why not let them? 

Why do we take that attitude with Mauritania? They have not 

burned our Embassy. Why do we not stay on good terms with them?

Mr. Lewis. It seems to me perhaps we may find ourselves with a 

base situated in a fairly strategic part of the world—a Communist 

base, I mean—that might otherwise not have been founded there had 

we continued to at least show some token of friendship.

The Chairman. Your presence is enough to show a token of 

friendship. You do not have to force gifts on them, do you? You 

can be there and be friendly without setting up a huge aid program.

Mr. Lewis. I quite agree tha t there is no point in forcing anything 

on them. Bu t a country like that is very poor and sometimes a little 

bit of money goes a g reat way.

The Chairman. It often goes a great way, though, to alienate the 

inhabitants. They think they are being patronized. It is a problem 

in human relations more than anything else, I think.

Mr. Lewis. I think one has to be very careful. These people are 

quite proud. They were getting a subsidy from the French and 

voluntarily gave it up, although i t made things very difficult for them.

The Chairman. In any case, their relation to the French is traditional. I think you ought to be careful about extending aid. I think 

it may offend the inhabitants.

Mr. Lewis. I intend to do so, as far as I have anything to do with 

it.

The Chairman. As far as I know, we have fairly good relations 

with Mauritania and I would not disturb this relationship. 1 think 

in the end, aid is resented.

Senator Sparkman?
30 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

LA N G U A G E AND PO PU L A T IO N O F M A U R IT A N IA

Senator Sparkman. Is French spoken in M auritania?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir, French is the official language.

Senator Sparkman. Do you speak French?

Mr. Lewis. Some, sir. It is pretty rusty now, b ut I hope to get 

it back in shape.

Senator Sparkman. Is the population mostly Arabic?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir, mostly. Twenty percent of them are of the 

Negro race, bu t the rest are Arabs.

Senator Sparkman. Does the country extend into the Sahara 

Desert?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir, i t does. In fact, a good part of the country, 

is in effect, part of the Sahara.

Senator Sparkman. I believe that is all.

The Chairman. Senator Carlson?

Senator Carlson. Mr. Lewis, will you pronounce the name of the 

capital?

Mr. Lewis. Nouakchott, sir.

Senator Carlson. I expect you will have to spell that for the 

reporter.

M A U R IT A N IA ASS OCIA TE M EM B ER O F CO MMO N M A R K ET

I was interested that on March 25, 1957, when the Treaty of Rome 

was signed, establishing the European Common M arket, it provided 

that the oversea territories of France, Belgium, Italy, and the N etherlands become associate members. Do you know if M auritania is still 

an associate member?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, sir, it is. It has been getting a certain am ount of 

aid from the Common Market countries.

Senator Carlson. Do you know w hat the amount of aid might be?

Mr. Lewis. I am not sure, sir. I thin k i t has been running in the 

neighborhood of $2 to $5 million for the past 3 ye&rs, b ut I am not 

certain on that.

Se na tor'Carlson. That would be a rather substantial amount, 

would it not, for 900,000 people?

Mr. Lewis. Oh, yes.

Senator Carlson. Is t ha t still in effect?

Mr. Lewis. As I understand it, they have been getting Common 

Market aid up to now.

Senator Carlson. That is all.

AM OUNT OF U .S . A ID TO M A U R IT A N IA

The Chairman. How much is our aid to M auritania?

Mr. Lewis. It has been running, sir, about $100,000 a year, roughly. 

In addition, there has been a little supporting assistance since 1962, 

about $100,000. This year, we are thinking of three projects which 

will probably total about $120,000, if they go through. One of those 

projects would extend over into another year. Th at is a child health 

and maternity clinic. We also contemplate helping them out with 

some business machines and with some repair vehicles for their postal 

and telegraph system.

Senator Carlson. Mr. Chairman, does Mauritania receive any 

food under the Public Law 480 program?
STATE DEPARTME NT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 31

Mr. Lewis. It has in the past, sir.

Senator Carlson. How much?

Mr. Lewis. I am sorry, Senator, I do not know the exact amount. 

The last shipment was a shipment for famine relief; about 100 tons, 

I think.

Senator Carlson. Th at would be wheat, generally, or other foodstuffs?

Mr. Lewis. It has been mostly wheat, as I understand it.

Senator Carlson. I have no more questions.

The Chairman. Senator Case?

S E L F -S U F F IC IE N C Y IN A G R IC U LTU R A L AND O T H E R PRO D U CTS

Senator Case. How close is the country to supporting itself in 

agricultural products, food and fiber?

Mr. Lewis. Not very close, sir. One of the projects which they 

are very anxious to push forward is a road which would make the 

agricultural areas more accessible to the rest of the country and 

therefore would promote self-sufficiency, or at least work toward 

self-sufficiency.

Senator Case. Is there arable land at present?

Mr. Lewis. Yes, there is some. It is down along the river, around 

the southern border. There are also oases scattered around where they 

grow dates.

Senator Case. Is it a country that can be made self-sufficient in 

terms of its own food and fiber?

Mr. Lewis. I should think it would be a long time, sir, before th at 

could be realized.

Senator Case. As you see it now, what does th at depend on, new 

kinds of farming?

Mr. Lewis. I think i t depends upon better methods of agriculture, 

perhaps more intensive agriculture down along the river, perhaps some 

irrigation projects, small ones, which could make better use of the 

river water that they have. There may be some oases tha t could be 

developed to a higher degree than they are now. They are mostly 

just places where they grow dates.

Senator Case. Do you think they can be interested in doing this 

job?

Mr. Lewis. I think so, but I will have to get out there to find out 

for sure.

Senator Case. Thank you very much.

The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Lewis.

You have my best wishes. It will be an interesting experience for 

you.

Mr. Lewis. Thank you, sir. It certainly will.

The Chairman. You will not have to worry so much about Vietnam out there.

Mr. Lewis. No; that is one worry I probably will not have.

The Chairman. Mr. James W. Lamont, of Maryland.

Mr. Lamont, will you come forward, please? Be seated, sir.

We are very pleased to have you this morning. You are one of the 

representatives of newcomers into the Service, is tha t correct?

Mr. Lamont. That is correct, Mr. Chairman.
32 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

STATEMENT OF JAMES W. LAMONT, FROM THE R OUTINE FOREIGN 

SERVICE LIST OF FEBRUARY 1, 1965

The Chairman. Tell us briefly for the record where you were born, 

your education, and a few things like tha t for the record, please?

Mr. Lamont. Yes, sir; I was actually born in Princeton, N.J., but 

lived until about 2 years ago in New Brunswick, N.J. I began my 

college career in Swarthmore College in Pennsylvania, and finished 

my undergraduate work at Rutgers in New Brunswick. I obtained 

a bachelor’s degree in English literature there. Then I got a m aster’s 

degree, also in English literature, from the University of Pennsylvania 

and now I am completing the writing of my dissertation in history at 

Rutgers.

The Chairman. When did you take the Foreign Service examination?

Mr. Lamont. I took the written section a year ago last September, 

sir, and the oral a year ago in February.

The Chairman. What foreign languages do you speak?

Mr. Lamont. At the moment, I speak no foreign languages. I 

have had courses in French and German, bu t I cannot claim any 

fluency.

RE AS ON S FO R ENTE RIN G FO REI GN SE RV ICE

The Chairman. When did you develop an interest in going into the 

Foreign Service?

Mr. Lamont. I developed this over the past 4 or 5 years, primarily, 

I think, for three reasons:

First, I wanted to be of some kind of service to the community, to 

the Nation, possibly to the world if this would be possible.

Second, I felt that international relations would be the key to 

whatever world we would have in the next generation.

Third, my dissertation is on the reform of the Foreign Service by 

means of the Rogers Act of 1924. As I worked on it, I became more 

and more interested in the Foreign Service as a career.

NEC ES SITY FO R FL UE NC Y IN FO REI GN LA NG UA GE

The Chairman. I find it curious t ha t if you have had a desire to 

serve in the Foreign Service you did not study a foreign language. 

You majored in English, did you not?

Mr. Lamont. Yes, sir; I did.

The Chairman. Has it ever occurred to you tha t it might be useful 

to have a foreign language?

Mr. Lamont. Yes, sir; I have had 2 years of college German plus a 

summer course in it. I have had French and also Latin.

The Chairman. I may say this is not unusual. Many of our young 

people do not have a foreign language, but it always seemed to me 

that it would be very appropriate if they did. It would save them 

a lot of time when they go into the Foreign Service.

There are language courses in the Foreign Service Institu te, and I 

assume you will take advantage of those?

Mr. Lamont. Yes, sir; I began a course in Spanish yesterday.
STATE DEPARTME NT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 33

ST AN DI NG IN CO LL EG E CLASS

The Chairman. How did you stand in college? I assume you 

must have been a good student, were you not?

Mr. Lamont. I believe at Rutgers I was nin th out of a class of 300, 

scholastically.

The Chairman. When you took your A.B.?

Mr. Lamont. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. Was it a B.A. in English or history?

Mr. Lamont. In English.

FO REI GN SE RV IC E EX AM IN AT IO N

The Chairman. What was your impression of the Foreign Service 

examination? Was it difficult and was it well designed for its purpose? 

Wha t was your feeling about it?

Mr. Lamont. I found it difficult, but not impossible. As far as 

the design is concerned, I would prefer to reserve judgment on tha t 

until I see exactly what type of work it is designed to produce people 

for. I do not know.

ST UDIE S AB OU T FO REI GN SE RVIC E

The Chairman. Have you studied much about the Foreign Service, 

and the responsibilities of the Foreign Service officer?

Mr. Lamont. Formally, I have just completed an 8-week course 

at the Institute concerning this.

The Chairman. Which institute?

Mr. Lamont. The Foreign Service Institute. As I have said before, 

I have done reading in connection with my dissertation in this area.

The Chairman. Do you follow current events in international 

affairs closely?

Mr. Lamont. I try to, sir.

The Chairman. Senator Sparkman?

PR EV IO US E X PE R IE N C E IN CO MPU TE R WO RK

Senator Sparkman. I notice some things in your biographical 

sketch here that interest me. I notice your first job was as a trainee 

in IB M fundamentals for nonprogs; what is that?

Mr. Lamont. This is the fundamentals of computer work for nonprogramers.

Senator Sparkman. Then you took a trainee PE RT fundamentals 

course. What was that?

Mr. Lamont. Program evaluation and review techniques, sir.

Senator Sparkman. Then you took IBM Cobol. What is that?

Mr. Lamont. Common business oriented language.

Senator Case. What language is that?

Mr. Lamont. This is a system whereby a computer can be fed 

instructions in something resembling English instead of strictly 

mathematical terms, sir.

Senator Sparkman. Then the next is RCA systems and analysis. 

Is that following the same line?
34 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

Mr. Lamont. Tha t is correct, sir.

Senator Sparkman. In other words, this was a series of courses 

dealing with computers, is that right?

Mr. Lamont. Tha t is correct.

Senator Sparkman. Did you say what language it was you started 

at the Institute?

Mr. L amont. Spanish.

Senator Sparkman. Is tha t the only language you are taking now? 

Mr. Lamont. Tha t is correct.

N E W F O R E IG N A SSIG N M E N T IN BO LIV IA

Senator Sparkman. Have you received an assignment yet?

Mr. Lamoni. Yes, sir.

Senator Sparkman. Where?

Mr. Lamont. La Paz, Bolivia.

Senator Sparkman. When do you go there?

Mr. Lamont. My official training at the Foreign Service Institute 

ends on the 6th of August and it will be within a m atter of days after 

that.

Senator Sparkman. I believe th at is all, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Senator Case?

DO CT OR AL W O R K IN H IS TO R Y

Senator Case. What did you teach at Rutgers?

Mr. L amont. History, sir.

Senator Case. That had not been a major, had it?

Mr. Lamont. It was a minor as an undergraduate and became a 

major when I began my doctoral work.

Senator Case. Are you still working for your doctorate?

Mr. Lamont. Yes, sir, I am still completing my dissertation.

Senator Case. Are you going to have it before you are much older?

Mr. Lamont. I sincerely hope tha t is true.

Senator Case. At New Brunswick?

Mr. Lamont. Yes, sir.

Senator Case. In what particular area is your doctoral work 

directed?

Mr. Lamont. My specific area has been modern American history, 

with minor areas in modern European history, Latin America history, 

and Greek history.

Senator Case. On what is your thesis?

Mr. Lamont. The passage, implementation, and amendment of the 

Rogers Act of 1924.

Senator Case. What is the Rogers Act?

Mr. Lamont. This is an act that reformed the Foreign Service 

structure.

Senator Case. This is w hat interested you in the Foreign Service 

as a career?

Mr. Lamont. This was probably the thing that pushed me over 

the brink, so to speak, sir.

Senator Case. Were you teaching before you got over the brink?

Mr. L amont. Teaching, yes, sir.

Senator Case. You have lived most of the time in New Brunswick 

and Princeton?
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 35

Mr. Lamont. Yes, sir.

Senator Case. It is nice to see someone from my State.

PU RPO SE IN CO MPU TE R ST UDIE S

The Chairman. What was your purpose in the study of IBM 

computers, et cetera? What did you have in mind then? Did you 

plan to go into tha t work?

Mr. Lamont. At that time, Mr. Chairman, I was a member of the 

Army management intern program and one of the philosophies of 

that program is to create a person who can go into any one of a 

number of fields in the Army and serve as a manager. The Army has 

thought during the pas t few years that the wisest policy concerning 

the development of computers was to give everyone coming in this 

type of program a chance to learn what computers are all about.

Senator Case. Were you planning to go into the Army then?

Mr. Lamont. I had started in on a career in the Army. I had 

taken the exam for th at at the same time as the Foreign Service 

exam and the Army answered me first.

The Chairman. Mr. Lamont, do you have anything to say to the 

committee?

Mr. Lamont. Only that I appreciate very much this opportunity 

of coming this morning, Mr. Chairman. It has been most pleasant 

and I will appreciate having a career in the Foreign Service as much 

as I have started out on. I merely hope I can be a success a t it.

Senator Clark. Mr. Chairman, could I note for the record, Mr. 

Lam ont’s obvious good judgment in having gone to Swarthmore and 

the University of Pennsylvania to get his education?

Senator Case. You mean as well as Rutgers?

Senator Clark. As well as Rutgers.

The Chairman. Thank you, very much, Mr. Lamont.

The next witness is Miss Elizabeth F. O’Brien of the District of 

Columbia.

STATEMENT OF MISS ELIZABETH F. O’BRIEN, FROM THE ROUTINE 

FOREIGN SERVICE LIST OF FEBRUARY 1, 1965

The Chairman. Good morning, Miss O’Brien.

Miss O’Brien. Good morning.

The Chairman. Would you give a very brief biographic sketch: 

where you were born, where you were educated, where you are now 

living?

Miss O’Brien. I was born in Philadelphia, but did not live 

there. I lived in Virginia for a number of years and then went overseas with my father, who was in the Foreign Service. I came back 

here to Washington and got my bachelor’s degree from George 

Washington University this past June. I took a Foreign Service 

exam last March, the written part, the oral part in September, and 

was working for the Bureau of the Budget before I actually came on 

duty in the Department. My bachelor’s was in international affairs.

The Chairman. Where did you go to school?

Miss O’Brien. George Washington University.

The Chairman. Where did you stand in your class upon graduation 

from George Washington?
36 STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS

Miss O’Brien. The university does not actually compute stand 

ings, bu t I was told I was in approximately the top 10 percent.

RE AS ON S FO R CH OO SIN G TH E FO REI GN SE RV IC E

The Chairman. What inspired you to take the Foreign Service 

examination?

Miss O’Brien. Well, I have been connected with the Foreign 

Service through my family for m any years.

The Chairman. In what way?

Miss O’Brien. My father is a Foreign Service officer.

The Chairman. What is he?

Miss O’Brien. He is a consul general.

The Chairman. Where?

Miss O’Brien. He was in Capetown. He is retiring this year, 

though.

The Chairman. You lived abroad with him, then?

Miss O’Brien. I lived in Germany, yes, sir.

The Chairman. Do you speak any foreign language?

Miss O’Brien. I speak German and Spanish. Not fluently.

The Chairman. You speak them fluently?

Miss O’Brien. Not real fluently, no, sir.

The Chairman. What do you have in mind in the Foreign Service? 

What is your ambition to do in the Foreign Service?

Miss O’Brien. Well, I want to go into the administration of the 

State D epartment and work in the administrative field. I wanted to 

have a career in public service and I was not sure whether I wanted to 

go into foreign affairs or stay here in Washington in a noninternational 

Government agency. But I thought in connection with my interest 

in international affairs, I would combine the two and try to work in 

the administrative area.

EX PE R IE N C E AS ST AF F AIDE IN DI SA RM AM EN T AGENCY

The Chairman. I noticed you were a staff aide in the U.S. Arms 

Control and D isarmament Agency, is that correct?

Miss O’Brien. Yes, sir.

The Chairman. What did you do in that agency?

Miss O’Brien. Well, staff aide is a general term. It was a clerical 

position, working around and getting papers together. I was there 

at the time the test ban treaty was worked on and we had to work 

nights and weekends to get all the papers ready for Governor Harriman 

to take to Moscow. The actual clerical preparation—typing papers, 

making sure enough copies were available to send out to agencies 

for clearance—helped me get an idea of how policy is established 

and set up in government.

The Chairman. Senator Sparkman?

BA CK GR OU ND OF NOMIN EE

Senator Sparkman. When were you in Germany?

Miss O’Brien. From 1952 to 1958, we were in Bonn and Berlin.

Senator Sparkman. Then you came back to this country?

Miss O’Brien. Yes, I graduated from high school in Rockville, 

Md. Then my fathe r was assigned to the Departm ent at that time.
STATE DEPARTMENT AND DIPLOMATIC NOMINATIONS 37

Senator Sparkman. Then you went to George Washington University?

Miss O’Brien. Yes, sir.

Senator Sparkman. You majored in political science and history? 

Miss O’Brien. Yes, it is a major in international affairs at the 

university, which involves political science, economics, history, 

geography.

Senator Sparkman. Do you have your assignment?

Miss O’Brien. Yes, sir; 1 am going to The Hague, the Netherlands. 

Senator Sparkman. Th at is all, Mr. Chairman.

The Chairman. Senator Case?

Senator Case. No questions, thank you.

I noticed when you were at Princeton, it was 1960. Was tha t a 

summer vacation job?

Miss O’Brien. Yes; it was. My father is from Princeton.

Senator Clark. You said you were in the first 10 percent of your 

class at George Washington; did you get an honors degree?

Miss O’Brien. I did not, sir.

The C hairman. Than k you very much, Miss O’Brien.

The committee’s open session is recessed and we will have an 

executive session.

(Whereupon, at 11:40 a.m., the committee adjourned, to reconvene 

in executive session.)