`[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                    BIDEN'S BORDER CRISIS: EXAMINING
                    EFFORTS TO COMBAT INTERNATIONAL
                   CRIMINAL CARTELS AND STOP ILLEGAL
                      DRUG TRAFFICKING TARGETING
                            INDIAN COUNTRY

=======================================================================

                           OVERSIGHT HEARING

                               before the

                     SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND
                             INVESTIGATIONS

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION
                               __________

                         Tuesday, June 4, 2024
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-128
                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources
       
       
       
       
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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                   or
          Committee address: http://naturalresources.house.gov
                                 ______

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE          

55-913 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024























                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES

                     BRUCE WESTERMAN, AR, Chairman
                    DOUG LAMBORN, CO, Vice Chairman
                  RAUL M. GRIJALVA, AZ, Ranking Member

Doug Lamborn, CO                     Grace F. Napolitano, CA
Robert J. Wittman, VA                Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan,    
Tom McClintock, CA                     CNMI       
Paul Gosar, AZ                       Jared Huffman, CA                                             
Garret Graves, LA                    Ruben Gallego, AZ          
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS         Joe Neguse, CO                   
Doug LaMalfa, CA                     Mike Levin, CA       
Daniel Webster, FL                   Katie Porter, CA        
Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon, PR         Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM                 
Russ Fulcher, ID                     Melanie A. Stansbury, NM    
Pete Stauber, MN                     Mary Sattler Peltola, AK  
John R. Curtis, UT                   Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, NY   
Tom Tiffany, WI                      Kevin Mullin, CA   
Jerry Carl, AL                       Val T. Hoyle, OR     
Matt Rosendale, MT                   Sydney Kamlager-Dove, CA         
Lauren Boebert, CO                   Seth Magaziner, RI    
Cliff Bentz, OR                      Nydia M. Velazquez, NY                           
Jen Kiggans, VA                      Ed Case, HI                      
Jim Moylan, GU                       Debbie Dingell, MI
Wesley P. Hunt, TX                   Susie Lee, NV                
Mike Collins, GA
Anna Paulina Luna, FL                                   
John Duarte, CA                            
Harriet M. Hageman, WY                                                      
                    Vivian Moeglein, Staff Director
                      Tom Connally, Chief Counsel
                 Lora Snyder, Democratic Staff Director
                   http://naturalresources.house.gov
                   
                                 ------                                

              SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIONS

                        PAUL GOSAR, AZ, Chairman
                      MIKE COLLINS, GA, Vice Chair
                MELANIE A. STANSBURY, NM, Ranking Member

Matt Rosendale, MT                   Ed Case, HI
Wesley P. Hunt, TX                   Ruben Gallego, AZ
Mike Collins, GA                     Susie Lee, NV
Anna Paulina Luna, FL                Raul M. Grijalva, AZ, ex officio
Bruce Westerman, AR, ex officio

                                 ------


























                                 
                               CONTENTS

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing held on Tuesday, June 4, 2024............................     1

Statement of Members:

    Gosar, Hon. Paul, a Representative in Congress from the State 
      of Arizona.................................................     1

    Stansbury, Hon. Melanie A., a Representative in Congress from 
      the State of New Mexico....................................     3

Statement of Witnesses:

    Panel I:

    LaCounte, Darryl, Director, Bureau of Indian Affairs, 
      Department of the Interior, Washington, DC.................     5
        Prepared statement of....................................     6
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    11

    Panel II:

    Roberge, Joshua, Chief of Police, Fort Belknap Indian 
      Community, Harlem, Montana.................................    21
        Prepared statement of....................................    23

    Zinn, Stacy, Former Resident in Charge, Rocky Mountain 
      Division, Drug Enforcement Administration, Billings, 
      Montana....................................................    25
        Prepared statement of....................................    27

    Nores, John, Jr., Lieutenant (Retired), Special Operations, 
      Marijuana Enforcement Team, California Department of Fish 
      and Wildlife, Morgan Hill, California......................    28
        Prepared statement of....................................    30

Additional Materials Submitted for the Record:

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Gosar

        Oglala Sioux Indian Tribe, Statement for the Record......    51

                                     
 
                    OVERSIGHT HEARING ON BIDEN'S BORDER
                    CRISIS: EXAMINING EFFORTS TO COMBAT
                    INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL CARTELS AND
                      STOP ILLEGAL DRUG TRAFFICKING
                        TARGETING INDIAN COUNTRY

                               ----------                              

                         Tuesday, June 4, 2024

                     U.S. House of Representatives

              Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations

                     Committee on Natural Resources

                             Washington, DC

                               ----------                              

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:07 p.m. in 
Room 1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Paul Gosar 
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Gosar, Rosendale, Collins, 
Westerman, Hageman, Crane, Bentz; and Stansbury.

    Dr. Gosar. The Subcommittee on Oversight will come to 
order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the Subcommittee at any time.
    The Subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony on 
Biden's border crisis, examining the efforts to combat 
international criminal cartels and stop illegal drug 
trafficking targeting Indian Country.
    Under Committee Rule 4(f), any oral opening statements at 
the hearing are limited to the Chairman and the Ranking 
Minority Member. I, therefore, ask unanimous consent that all 
other Members' statements will be part of the hearing record if 
they are submitted in accordance with Committee Rule 3(o).
    Without objection, so ordered.
    I ask unanimous consent that the following Members be 
allowed to sit and participate in today's hearing: the 
gentleman from Oregon, Mr. Bentz; the gentleman from Alabama, 
Mr. Carl; the gentlewoman from Wyoming, Ms. Hageman; and the 
gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Crane.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    I now recognize myself for my opening statement.

     STATEMENT OF THE HON. PAUL GOSAR, A REPRESENTATIVE
           IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

    Dr. Gosar. First of all, I would like to take a moment and 
give a very special thanks to our witnesses for coming before 
the Committee today.
    A few months ago, before this very Subcommittee, tribal 
leaders bravely spoke about death threats, yes, death threats, 
they received from the international criminal cartels. Tribal 
leaders received death threats for daring to testify in front 
of Congress about the very real dangers their constituents are 
facing on a daily basis because of the cartel activity present 
in their communities.
    Let that sink in for just a moment. International criminal 
cartels, not something you read about in the paper, not actors 
in movies, are actually threatening American citizens for 
testifying before Congress. The threat is real, and it is 
ongoing. It is imperative that we continue this conversation 
and move forward with some solutions.
    Today, we will discuss how law enforcement is currently 
working with these tribes to focus on these threats, and better 
understand the opportunities for improving interagency 
communications and operations in the future.
    I do want to mention that both the FBI and the Department 
of Homeland Security were invited to testify today, and both 
agencies declined. While I would have preferred to hear from 
them in person, as their presence is key to resolving this 
matter, it is my understanding they are offering briefings in 
the near future. Without cooperation between the tribes and 
these agencies, it will be nearly impossible to move forward.
    During our last hearing, President Jeffrey Stiffarm of Fort 
Belknap Indian Community stated, ``One thing you really seem to 
overlook all the time are the threats, death threats we get 
from the cartel members. The threat of the cartels is real for 
our tribal communities, and it is imperative that we work to 
address it.'' However, the Biden administration has presented a 
seismic challenge to addressing the issue at the border. From 
Day 1, the Administration has rolled back Trump administration 
policies such as Remain in Mexico, and allowed for open border 
policies to resume.
    Since President Biden assumed office, the Border Patrol has 
lost a quarter of its workforce. This can be at least partially 
attributed to President Biden's catch-and-release policy, which 
allows illegal immigrants to remain in the United States while 
they await processing.
    The reduction in CBP agents exacerbates the border crisis, 
allowing the influence of the international criminal cartel 
activity to flourish nationwide. They have moved from a 
southern border nuisance to a nationwide pandemic, targeting 
tribal communities who can least afford to fight the scourge.
    Aside from the Biden administration's lax immigration 
policies, this crisis is intensified by the jurisdictional 
confusion among law enforcement agencies. During the prior 
hearing, the Committee received alarming information regarding 
the working relationship between the tribes and law 
enforcement.
    President Stiffarm informed the Committee that on one 
occasion he spoke with the FBI agents patrolling the 
reservation. Reportedly, agents assigned to the area were 
unable to identify the tribes they were actually working for. 
During his testimony, he mentioned the lack of assistance from 
Federal agencies such as the FBI, DEA, BIA, and the Border 
Patrol. According to this testimony, the lack of communication 
and cooperation among entities is one of the key reasons 
cartels target tribal lands.
    Simply put, they know the laws won't be enforced, and they 
can simply over-run by some sheer force.
    Jurisdiction in Indian Country is exercised by Federal, 
state, local, and sometimes tribal criminal justice agencies, 
depending on the crime and the local agreements. However, 
different laws, rules, and court cases have been made 
clarifying jurisdictional boundaries difficult in some cases, 
or sharing jurisdiction nearly impossible in others. This has 
impacted the ability of law enforcement to respond to calls in 
and out of Indian Country. In other areas, recruitment and 
retention of law enforcement officers is a primary barrier to 
success.
    Aside from all the barriers that may exist, the goal here 
that I believe we can all agree on, no matter what side of the 
aisle, is to ensure that we eliminate the influence of the 
cartel activity on tribal lands, and ensure that tribes have a 
path forward for justice in their own communities.
    I look forward to hearing from the witnesses today to learn 
more about what is working and what is not. We will continue to 
work with partner agencies to identify solutions to help ensure 
that Federal law enforcement agents and the tribal police 
forces are able to work together and have the resources that 
they do so need.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member, Ms. Stansbury, for her 
opening statement.

     STATEMENT OF THE HON. MELANIE A. STANSBURY, A REP-
      RESENTATIVE  IN  CONGRESS  FROM  THE STATE OF NEW
      MEXICO

    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Director, thank you so much for joining us today.
    This is the second of a series of hearings that the 
Majority has called on this topic. And as I said in our April 
hearing on the same topic, I think it is clear to anyone who is 
working on issues around public safety and behavioral health in 
our tribal communities that it has been truly devastating to 
see the ways in which the fentanyl crisis has touched down in 
our tribal communities. In fact, the data that we do have 
available shows us that just last year over 1,590 fatal 
overdoses happened in our tribal communities from 
methamphetamine and fentanyl alone.
    But I think it is important that we not just sit here in 
Washington, DC and talk about these issues, but actually 
address them through the tools that we have available to us. 
Over the last several months we have been working with tribal 
leaders, tribal organizations, law enforcement, and others to 
really understand. How do we stem the tide of these substances 
ending up in our communities? How do we help our Tribal Nations 
and empower our tribal law enforcement to tackle these issues 
on the ground? And how do we help those individuals who are 
suffering from addiction, and struggling with the daily 
challenges of what it means to be an addict? It means investing 
in our communities.
    While I appreciate and understand very deeply the 
challenges that it presents on the ground in terms of keeping 
these substances out of our communities, in fact, I just spent 
much of the last week talking to Border Patrol in New Mexico 
and Homeland Security, and it is true, in fact, we do need to 
have more law enforcement, more resources, more technology, and 
more manpower to keep these substances out of our communities. 
The solutions within our tribal communities are well known.
    Our Tribal Nations have been asking the U.S. Government not 
just for years, but for generations to make good on their 
treaty and their trust responsibilities by the U.S. Government 
to properly fund tribal law enforcement. It was literally 
written into the treaties that the United States signed with 
many of our Tribal Nations, that safety and protection would be 
provided.
    So, I do want to take today to actually talk about 
solutions, since we have the benefit of having our Director of 
the Bureau of Indian Affairs here. And I want to put on the 
table what I hope that we can get behind in a bipartisan basis, 
which is that we need to take seriously our responsibilities as 
a Federal Government to appropriately fund and support these 
programs.
    So, Mr. Chairman, I hope that I can ask for your support 
and others on this side of the aisle, as well, as we put 
forward an endeavor to work with our tribes to try to put 
together a comprehensive law enforcement and drug interdiction 
bill. Over the next few months, we will be talking more to our 
Tribal Nations, doing consultation, working hopefully with all 
of you to talk about what is actually needed.
    First of all, we know that our tribes need funding. Whether 
they are direct service and receiving tribal law enforcement 
services from the BIA, or whether they are contracting and have 
their own law enforcement programs, we know that these programs 
are severely underfunded. In fact, Bryan Newland, who is our 
Assistant Secretary, stated that the underfunding is on the 
order of at least $3 billion across our 570-plus Tribal 
Nations.
    We also know from our tribes that mandatory funding would 
help them address the deficiencies that they face year to year. 
And I know that it is one of the significant things that 
Congress could do, in addition to other efforts to pass 
mandatory funding for water rights, for our other programs that 
support health care, like IHS and contract support costs.
    Secondly, we need to help our law enforcement officers. Our 
tribes are struggling to recruit and retain tribal law 
enforcement. There is already a Republican bill that Mr. Dan 
Newhouse has put forward which would provide for parity for our 
tribal law enforcement. I strongly support this bill.
    Finally, we need a significant and substantive investment 
in addiction treatment and prevention services. And the only 
way we are going to get there is if we properly fund the Indian 
Health Service and BIA and other contract services that tribes 
use to help support their communities.
    So, in closing, I do hope that we can keep this hearing 
focused on the substance. I hope we can keep it focused on what 
our tribal leaders have told us. And I hope that we do not turn 
this into a partisan dog and pony show that takes our tribes 
for granted.
    With that, I yield back.
    Dr. Gosar. I will now introduce our witness for the first 
panel. Mr. Darryl LaCounte with the Bureau of Indian Affairs.
    Let me remind the witness that under Committee Rules, you 
must limit your oral statements to 5 minutes.
    You will see when you first get started the light will be 
green, then it will go to the yellow. Once you see that yellow, 
you have 1 minute to wrap it up. Regardless, your whole 
testimony will be placed in the record. If you go much past the 
red light, we will ask you to kind of sum it up.
    I now recognize Director LaCounte for his 5 minutes.

     STATEMENT OF DARRYL LaCOUNTE, DIRECTOR, BUREAU OF
      INDIAN  AFFAIRS,  DEPARTMENT  OF  THE  INTERIOR,
      WASHINGTON, DC

    Mr. LaCounte. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Gosar, 
Ranking Member Stansbury, and members of the Subcommittee. My 
name is Darryl LaCounte. I am the Director of the Bureau of 
Indian Affairs at the U.S. Department of the Interior. Thank 
you for the opportunity to discuss the Department's efforts in 
stopping illegal drug trafficking in Indian Country.
    The United States has a trust relationship with each of the 
574 federally recognized tribes. With that trust relationship, 
we have a responsibility to protect the continued existence of 
Indian tribes and the safety of their communities. The 
Department and BIA plays a crucial role in upholding this 
responsibility through interagency coordination.
    Coordination with tribes and other Federal law enforcement 
agencies leads to successful investigations that disrupt and 
take apart drug trafficking organizations. On May 27, just 
recently in 2024, the Division of Drug Enforcement, under the 
Office of Justice Services, BIA, stopped a vehicle for speeding 
on Interstate 40 in the Pueblo of Laguna, New Mexico. The DDE 
officer searched the vehicle and discovered 311,800 fentanyl 
pills valued at $12,472,000.
    Our investigations also target conspirators in and outside 
of Native communities to dismantle drug trafficking 
organizations. We also develop more cohesive responses to drug 
trafficking within Native communities, and train tribal law 
enforcement officers on how to spot and root out illegal drug 
traffickers.
    Our operations have successful outcomes, but we need to 
strengthen our efforts and address the structural challenges 
that affect the safety of Native communities. These structural 
challenges are documented in many reports commissioned by 
Congress to investigate the public safety concerns in Native 
communities. Each report reaches the same conclusion: We need 
to address these big, structural challenges to guarantee the 
safety of people in Native communities.
    The big structural challenges are increasing funding, 
addressing jurisdictional complexities, as you so pointed out, 
Chairman Gosar, and providing other needed resources for tribal 
justice personnel.
    Our 2021 Tribal Law and Order Act report estimates the 
total cost for public safety and justice programs in Indian 
Country is over $3 billion: $1.7 billion of that $3 billion for 
law enforcement programs, including tribal programs; $284.2 
million for existing detention centers; and $1.5 billion for 
tribal courts. In that same report, the data shows that the BIA 
spent $246.3 million on tribal law enforcement; $123.1 million 
for detention facilities; and $62.8 million for tribal courts, 
with only a small amount reaching tribes in public law, 280 
states. This means that public safety and justice programs in 
Indian Country are funded at just 13 percent of the total need.
    And the BIA is forced to heavily prioritize where funding 
is spent, leaving some areas underfunded, and that our first 
responders are forced to use outdated or minimally functional 
equipment. With our current budget, the BIA has focused on pay 
parity to increase our recruitment of qualified law enforcement 
officers. We are continuing to reduce the time to hire for the 
Bureau's officers, but the lengthy background investigation 
process is one of the biggest obstacles to officer recruitment. 
Expediting the background investigation process would greatly 
help us recruit and hire qualified law enforcement candidates, 
which is why the BIA supports the passage of the BADGES Act.
    Qualified law enforcement officers must also understand the 
complex jurisdiction in Indian Country before starting an 
investigation. The complex matrix depends on who owns the land 
and the tribal status of those involved. If these issues are 
not resolved, investigations can be stalled and eventually 
overlooked. The patchwork of jurisdiction adds transaction 
costs to tribal policing that other agencies do not have to 
deal with. Congress has legislated several times to ensure 
tribes can protect their communities by reaffirming tribal 
jurisdiction over crimes committed within Indian Country.
    However, these jurisdictional mazes still exist. 
Reaffirming tribal jurisdiction is consistent with the core 
principle of self-determination and demonstrates our 
understanding that tribal governments are best situated to meet 
the health, welfare, and safety of their citizens.
    Reaffirming jurisdiction is not enough. We have to make 
sure that tribal law enforcement officers have access to 
housing and improved roads. Old communication equipment must be 
modernized. Internet service gaps need to be closed. Law 
enforcement gear such as license plate readers, facial 
recognition software, and the MX-908 multi-mission portable 
mass spectrometers are needed to keep investigations effective 
at stopping illegal drugs from entering Native communities.
    Chair Gosar, Ranking Member Stansbury, and members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide the 
Department's views. We look forward to working with Congress to 
affirm and support tribal sovereignty and public safety within 
tribal communities.
    I am happy to answer any questions you may have.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. LaCounte follows:]
    
   Prepared Statement of Darryl LaCounte, Director, Bureau of Indian 
                Affairs, U.S. Department of the Interior

    Good afternoon, Chair Gosar, Ranking Member Stansbury, and members 
of the Subcommittee. My name is Darryl LaCounte, I am the Director of 
the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) at the U.S. Department of the 
Interior (Department). Thank you for the opportunity to discuss how the 
Bureau is addressing illegal drug trafficking in Native communities.
    The United States has a trust relationship with each of the 574 
federally recognized Tribes, and their Tribal citizens. Through these 
relationships, the United States has charged itself with obligations of 
the highest responsibility and trust--including the obligation to 
protect the existence of Indian Tribes and their citizens. This 
obligation is at its highest when it comes to protecting the physical 
safety and well-being of Indian people within Indian Country.
    The BIA plays a crucial role in meeting this obligation on behalf 
of the United States and partnering with other Federal agencies to 
continue meeting this important obligation.

Current Actions

    Interagency coordination is key to eradicating the presence of 
illegal drug trafficking. The BIA currently works with other Federal 
agencies, such as the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), Federal 
Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Department of Homeland Security, Border 
Patrol, and the High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area task forces to 
combat illegal drug trafficking in Tribal communities.
    Our interagency investigations often target conspirators on and off 
Indian lands to effectively dismantle drug trafficking organizations. 
The BIA leverages internal intelligence analysis in cooperation with 
other Federal, State, and Tribal law enforcement agencies to combat the 
increasing amounts of controlled substances being trafficked into 
reservations through the United States Mail, Federal Express, private 
shipping companies, and Amtrak.
    The Division of Drug Enforcement (DDE) under the Office of Justice 
Services (OJS) has conducted numerous marijuana eradication operations 
working with state and federal agencies in California. In previous 
years, the DDE assisted with the eradication of hundreds of thousands 
of illegally grown plants and the dismantling of grow operations.
    OJS/DDE also conducts Mobile Enforcement Team (MET) operations on 
Reservations across the country. These deployments are in cooperation 
with the Tribes, States, and other Federal agencies. They involve the 
deployment of additional resources to a particular area to focus on the 
specifically identified issue in that area. These resources include 
additional agents, K9 teams, and specific equipment used to identify, 
gather, and present the necessary evidence to disrupt and dismantle 
drug trafficking in that area. Agents and officers conduct covert and 
overt drug investigations as appropriate for the area to remove the 
individuals involved and the drugs from the communities. The DDE also 
operates the largest nationwide network of drug enforcement agents 
dedicated solely to Indian Country. Table 1 and Table 2 demonstrate the 
impact that OJS DDE is making by intercepting illicit drugs in Indian 
Country.
    To maximize effectiveness, we also increased our involvement with 
individual Tribal law enforcement agencies to develop more cohesive 
responses to drug trafficking and drug enforcement needs. Drug 
trafficking and drug-related crime, including the ongoing opioid and 
methamphetamine crises, continue to escalate throughout Indian Country. 
Tribal officials have consistently called for action toward addressing 
an increasingly common cause of Indian Country crime by strengthening 
drug enforcement capabilities throughout the Nation.
    The BIA has partnered with Tribes to step up enforcement operations 
to combat the trafficking of illicit drugs in communities on 
reservations across the nation. We also train Tribal law enforcement 
officers on how to spot and root out drug traffickers that are living 
within their communities.
    The DDE assists Tribes with specific requests as well as general 
narcotics enforcement operations for individual Tribes. For Tribes that 
are located within Public Law 83-280 (P.L. 280) states, the State has 
primary jurisdiction for enforcement, but this has not stopped the BIA 
from working with states and Tribes to reduce the presence of drug 
trafficking organizations operating in Indian Country. As part of our 
cohesive response to combatting drug trafficking, BIA maintains close 
contact with the United States Attorney Offices responsible for 
prosecuting the complex criminal organizations affecting Indian Country 
to strengthen each case's credibility with the prosecutorial staff and 
strengthen relationships with local law enforcement.
    Our partnership with Tribes has led to the successful seizures of 
illegal drugs, including illicit fentanyl. On the morning of May 27, 
2024, a BIA-DDE law enforcement officer stopped a vehicle for speeding 
on Interstate 40 on the Pueblo of Laguna, New Mexico. On probable 
cause, the DDE officer searched the vehicle and discovered 
approximately 311,800 fentanyl pills, valued at $12,472,000. 
Interagency coordination with Tribal law enforcement leads to 
successful operations.
    These operations have been successful in combatting illicit drug 
trafficking in Native communities, but Tribal law enforcement continues 
to face structural challenges. Specifically, the President's FY 2025 
Budget includes additional funding that would allow us to further 
strengthen these efforts and address these structural challenges.

Structural Challenges

Jurisdiction

    Drug trafficking organizations, exploiting the myriad of 
jurisdictional issues surrounding Indian Country, target Native 
communities as delivery sites and for distribution of illegal drugs.
    The jurisdictional framework between Indian Tribes, the federal 
government, and states is complex, especially with respect to 
determining criminal jurisdiction. Congress and the courts have tied 
criminal jurisdiction to several factors to determine who exercises 
jurisdiction. These factors include type of crime, Indian or non-Indian 
status of the defendant and the victim, and whether or not the crime 
scene lies within Indian Country. Determining these factors is often a 
complex element that must be resolved before beginning an 
investigation. These factors impose significant transaction costs on 
officers, policymakers, attorneys, judges, and advocates working to 
address public safety challenges in Indian Country.

    Congress has legislated to clarify criminal jurisdiction in Indian 
Country over the years. These enactments include:

     The 1968 amendments to P.L. 83-280 (P.L. 280), which 
            required states to obtain the consent of the Indian Tribe 
            prior to exercising criminal jurisdiction in Indian Country 
            and permitted states to withdraw from the jurisdictional 
            arrangement;

     The 1991 amendments to the Indian Civil Rights Act, which 
            affirmed Indian Tribes' inherent criminal jurisdiction over 
            non-member Indians;

     The 2010 Tribal Law and Order Act, which enhanced the 
            criminal sentencing authority of Tribal courts;

     The 2013 reauthorization of the Violence Against Women 
            Act, which recognized and affirmed Indian Tribes' inherent 
            jurisdiction to prosecute non-Indians for certain crimes 
            committed in Indian Country; and

     The 2022 reauthorization of the Violence Against Women 
            Act, which expanded and reaffirmed Indian Tribes' inherent 
            jurisdiction to prosecute non-Indians for additional crimes 
            committed in Indian Country.

    The successful implementation of these laws demonstrate that Indian 
Tribes and their law enforcement agencies are best suited to meet their 
public welfare needs. Despite these successes, additional 
jurisdictional cases have added more complexities to the framework.
    In McGirt v. Oklahoma, the U.S. Supreme Court held that the 
Muscogee Creek Nation continued to have criminal jurisdiction over all 
the land reserved for the Tribe in an 1866 Treaty. This decision was 
complicated by the Court's decision in Castro-Huerta v. Oklahoma. In 
Castro-Huerta, the Supreme Court determined that the federal government 
and states have concurrent jurisdiction over non-Indians who commit 
crimes against Indians in Indian Country. This recognition of states' 
expanded jurisdiction occurred without the consent of sovereign 
federally recognized Tribes, and without regard to the weight of the 
historical understanding of the limits on state authority in Indian 
Country, which Congress has relied upon in enacting legislation 
involving Indian Country jurisdiction, including 18 U.S.C. Sec. 1152. 
These decisions combined with P.L. 280 jurisdiction make Indian Country 
jurisdiction more complex, confusing, and ripe for unintended 
consequences.

    Several reports, such as the Not Invisible Act Commission Report, 
provide recommendations on how to address the jurisdictional 
complexities within Indian Country. These recommendations include:

  1.  Amending P.L. 280 to allow Tribes to opt out of state 
            jurisdiction; and

  2.  Restoring jurisdiction to Tribes to be able to prosecute all 
            crimes that occur on Tribal lands.

    Time and time again, Tribes have demonstrated that they can best 
meet the public welfare and safety needs of communities on their lands. 
As highlighted above, Congress has paired its legislation affirming 
Tribal jurisdiction and sovereignty with increased investments in 
Tribal justice systems. The Department supports energized investment in 
Tribal justice systems to address the structural challenges many Tribes 
face.

Staffing

    Congress has commissioned many reports to investigate the public 
safety concerns of Native communities and each report reaches the same 
conclusion: we need to address big structural challenges, such as 
staffing, to guarantee the safety of people in Tribal communities.
    Presently, the Department funds public safety and justice services 
for only 198 out of the total 574 federally recognized Tribes. On March 
4, 2024, the Department issued the ``Report to the Congress on 
Spending, Staffing, and Estimated Funding Costs for Public Safety and 
Justice Programs in Indian Country, 2021'' (2021 TLOA report) \1\ which 
contains funding cost data for law enforcement in Indian Country. In 
2021, total BIA spending for law enforcement was $256.4 million, $125 
million for detention facilities, and $65.3 million for Tribal courts. 
The 2021 TLOA report estimates the total cost for public safety and 
justice programs is $1.7 billion for law enforcement programs, $284.2 
million for existing detention centers, and $1.5 billion for Tribal 
courts. Thus, the total estimated unmet obligations identified in the 
2021 TLOA report for Tribal law enforcement, detention, and courts 
funding are just over $3 billion. The total estimated public safety and 
justice staffing need for Indian Country is 29,436 full time equivalent 
personnel. These numbers demonstrate the continued need for additional 
investment to improve the ability of Tribal public safety systems to 
fully serve their communities.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ U.S. Dep't of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs, Office of 
Justice Serv., Report to the Congress on Spending, Staffing, and 
Estimated Funding Costs for Public Safety and Justice Programs in 
Indian Country, 2021 (Feb. 2024), https://www.bia.gov/sites/default/
files/media_document/2021_tloa_report_final_508_compliant.pdf
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    Congress provided an additional $131.2 million for public safety 
and justice programs in Indian Country for fiscal years 2022 and 2023. 
However, the additional resources only moved the needle four percentage 
points above the 13 percent of the total need cited in the 2021 TLOA 
report.\2\
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    \2\ See 2021 TLOA report, footnote 1, p. 1.
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    With our current budget, BIA is working to improve law enforcement 
operations by focusing on recruitment incentives like pay parity. To 
accomplish this, we completed an upgrade to our uniformed police 
officer positions during FY 2023, which increased career advancement 
opportunities, along with corresponding pay increases up to an 
additional $30,000 annually for BIA law enforcement officers. We are 
also utilizing available hiring flexibilities and recruitment and 
retention bonuses to increase current staffing levels and better 
support those interested in fulfilling the Department's unique mission 
in Tribal communities. However, to support the additional pay raises in 
2024 and 2025 plus increases in other fixed costs, the additional 
funding included in the 2025 Budget is critical.
    At the requested level for fiscal year 2025, the DDE currently 
funds 53 BIA criminal investigator positions and eight K-9 officer 
positions that are strategically located throughout the country to help 
mitigate the jurisdictional complexities and prosecutorial challenges 
that make Indian communities disproportionately vulnerable to 
systematic infiltration by trafficking organizations. Our drug agents 
also work alongside other federal partners on task forces pursuing 
highly technical investigations such as court ordered Title III wire 
intercepts, Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Forces cases, 
Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organization cases, High Intensity 
Drug Trafficking Area cases, synthetic cannabinoid cases, and multi-
jurisdictional cases.
    Despite these coordinated efforts, there is still a shortage of law 
enforcement on the ground. Understaffing results in a lack of timely 
responses to incidents, a perception that Tribal law enforcement does 
not care about the community, and it negatively impacts Tribal 
economies. Staffing shortages also have a notable impact on mental 
health and the overall well-being of Tribal law enforcement, which lead 
to resignations.

Equipment and other resources

    International drug trafficking organizations often have access to 
sophisticated equipment and military-grade weapons to protect their 
operations. Accordingly, ensuring that Tribal law enforcement officers 
have the resources to address these issues, such as updated equipment, 
access to technology resources, and housing, is a top safety priority 
for Tribal law enforcement. Specifically, guaranteeing Tribal officers' 
access to reliable, top-tier equipment like the MX908 multi-mission 
portable Mass spectrometer for the roadside identification of illegal 
drugs, as well as technology like license plate readers and facial 
recognition software, can greatly contribute to their effectiveness in 
the field.
    Adequate housing and infrastructure is a challenge in many Tribal 
communities. We ask Tribal law enforcement officers to live within the 
communities they serve, but they face housing challenges such as cost, 
or they are unable to bring their families due to the size of the 
available residence. This is a barrier to retaining law enforcement 
employees. Furthermore, many Tribal communities and homes are located 
in remote areas with unpaved roads, thus public safety vehicles 
accumulate greater wear and tear and need more frequent routine 
replacement.
    Due to the remote nature of many Tribal communities, Tribal law 
enforcement officers often respond to high-risk calls alone and face 
greater rates of death in the line of duty. They heavily rely on field 
communications, like land mobile radios, to respond to calls and 
maintain officer safety. But many Tribal areas do not have sufficient 
radio coverage which delays response times, investigations, and 
jeopardizes officer safety. Expanded radio coverage to minimize ``no 
coverage'' areas and include video and data capabilities is vital to 
increasing officer safety.
    A number of reports commissioned by Congress affirm that these 
structural challenges make it harder to keep people safe in Indian 
Country. While the data conveys the seriousness of illegal drug 
trafficking in Indian Country, we are unable to measure the resulting 
impact to victims, affected families, and the already strained Tribal 
justice and social service systems in these communities. Addressing 
these challenges requires coordination across the federal government 
and with Tribal leaders to fulfill our trust responsibility.
    The Department continues to prioritize and reinforce Tribal 
sovereignty and self-determination by providing support and resources 
to improving public safety and combat illegal drug trafficking in 
Indian Country.
    Chair Gosar, Ranking Member Stansbury, and members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide the Department's 
views. We look forward to working with Congress to affirm and support 
Tribal sovereignty and public safety within Tribal communities. I am 
happy to answer any questions that you may have.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                                 ------
                                 

 Questions Submitted for the Record to Mr. Darryl LaCounte, Director, 
          Bureau of Indian Affairs, Department of the Interior

Mr. LaCounte did not submit responses to the Committee by the 
appropriate deadline for inclusion in the printed record.

              Questions Submitted by Representative Gosar

    Question 1. Tribes have expressed the lack of trust between tribes 
and federal law enforcement. How has the BIA been working to address 
this, and what more can be done to improve working relationships?

    Question 2. In the last hearing, the tribal leaders expressed 
disappointment with the apparent lack of interest in their needs and 
concerns by their federal partners, even a desire to learn about the 
tribes they were assigned to support. Do you think that a program to 
recruit tribal members into Federal Law Enforcement would improve the 
relationship between Federal agencies and the tribes?

    Question 3. During our April 10, 2024, hearing, President Jeffrey 
Stiffarm of Fort Belknap Indian Community stated that ``what little 
officers we do have, they have been trying to be proactive without any 
help from the BIA, without any help from the FBI, without any help from 
the Border Patrol or the DEA.'' Are you satisfied with the current 
level of federal law enforcement activity across Indian Country? Please 
explain.

    Question 4. During that same hearing Councilman Bryce Kirk of Fort 
Peck Tribes, that BIA has repeatedly failed to meet their federal trust 
responsibility to provide sufficient funding for law enforcement for 
Fort Peck Tribes. How is BIA working to meet the trust responsibilities 
with Tribes across the nation, so they have the necessary law 
enforcement resources to push back against the cartels?

    Question 5. During the Committee's FY25 Budget Hearing for BIA, 
Assistant Secretary Newland briefly described the `jurisdictional maze' 
that exists between the different levels of law enforcement. Can you 
provide some examples of when this `jurisdictional maze' has hindered 
law enforcement efforts on Indian lands?

    Question 6. What suggestions does BIA have for resolving long-
standing jurisdictional issues to bolster the authority of tribal law 
enforcement agencies to address the cartel activity on their lands?

    Question 7. As you know, Special Law Enforcement Commission (SLEC) 
agreements from BIA are required for tribal or local law enforcement 
officers to enforce federal criminal laws in Indian Country. However, 
the long process of obtaining and renewing an SLEC agreement is 
reportedly a barrier for Tribes to gaining this tool. Does the 
burdensome process for obtaining and renewing an SLEC agreement hamper 
tribal law enforcement's ability to address the cartels' invasion onto 
tribal lands?

    Question 8. What steps do you believe are necessary for the SLEC 
process to be improved?

               Questions Submitted by Representative Carl

    Question 1. Could you provide an update for the Committee on BIA's 
pay parity initiative, that intends to bring BIA law enforcement pay 
levels in line with other federal law enforcement agencies? And how 
else is BIA working to address the recruitment and retention issue?

    Question 2. How has the recruitment and retention of federal law 
enforcement, not just BIA but across all agencies, impacting the 
ability of Tribes to address the cartel's presence and the fentanyl 
crisis on Indian lands?

                                 ______
                                 

    Dr. Gosar. Thank you, Director. I am now going to recognize 
Members for their questions. First, the gentleman from Montana, 
Mr. Rosendale.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank 
you for holding this hearing today.
    The Biden administration's open border policies are 
wreaking havoc across the entire nation. And this isn't 
political, this is just a fact. This is especially evident by 
the surge in addiction and crime in Montana's reservations 
fueled by cartel activities.
    I want to thank our Montana-based witnesses for this panel 
and then coming forward to share their insights and firsthand 
experiences regarding this alarming trend.
    The continuing cycle of addiction, crime, and loss of life 
in Indian Country must be halted, and I hope that this hearing 
will force this Administration to protect our nation and work 
with our tribes to repel these dangerous cartels and their 
impact.
    Moreover, I hope the fact we are having yet another hearing 
on this issue of vital importance will serve as a much-needed 
wake-up call to my colleagues across the aisle, helping them to 
recognize the unconscionable effects of President Biden's open 
border policies. These policies have impacted not only border 
communities, but the entire nation.
    Mr. LaCounte, how many agents do you currently have working 
in Montana?
    Mr. LaCounte. Congressman, we have numerous tribes that 
have contracted the program: Fort Peck, Fort Belknap, 
Blackfeet. So, our agents are basically focused on Crow and 
Northern Cheyenne, with a presence at the regional office there 
in Billings.
    It is a tough number to come to, but I would say roughly 40 
that aren't tribal at this point.
    Mr. Rosendale. How many of these agents' main priority is 
preventing cartel activities or drug trafficking in Indian 
Country?
    Out of the 40, how many of them is it their exclusive job 
to work on drug trafficking or the cartels?
    Mr. LaCounte. They are not focused specifically on cartels, 
but they are focused on drug activity. That would be roughly 
five agents.
    Mr. Rosendale. OK. What specific actions is your agency 
taking to ensure that these communities remain safe from cartel 
activities?
    Mr. LaCounte. We are doing any and everything we can with 
the resources we have to stop drugs from getting there and 
making arrests where applicable, if we can do that. And we are 
assisting tribes as best we can to do the same things with the 
programs I mentioned, Congressman, that are contracted.
    Mr. Rosendale. Do you believe that more cooperation between 
Federal law enforcement and the tribal law enforcement would 
help with effective enforcement and reduction in crime?
    Mr. LaCounte. I do.
    Mr. Rosendale. OK. What can be done to create more 
cooperation between the tribal community and the Federal law 
enforcement agencies in order to help this relationship?
    What can we do to improve that relationship so that these 
folks are working together?
    Mr. LaCounte. I don't know if I am supposed to go down this 
road as the director, but additional funding would always help.
    The pushback between BIA and oftentimes tribal programs is 
they don't think we are funding them enough, while in fact we 
have limited resources, and we fund as best we can.
    And other than that, address the jurisdictional issues that 
the Chairman brought up earlier, to where it is much easier for 
officers on the ground to know whether they have jurisdiction 
or not.
    I recently met with the cadets at our training facility in 
Artesia, New Mexico. And my message to them was, look, I know 
it is a scary thing, and you are not lawyers, but when there is 
a crime committed, I am going to back you if you do the right 
thing as a law enforcement officer, even if you are somewhat 
out of your jurisdiction. But that is a real serious issue, the 
jurisdictional issue, Congressman.
    Mr. Rosendale. Couldn't we help resolve some of these 
jurisdictional issues by, again, having some kind of better, 
closer cooperation between the Federal agencies and the tribal 
agencies so that they are communicating well?
    Mr. LaCounte. Absolutely.
    Mr. Rosendale. And that doesn't cost money. That takes 
time. That takes commitment. That is not about money. And if 
there are any agreements that need to be put in place, those 
are the kinds of things that we need to be talking about.
    Mr. Chair, I see my time has expired, I yield back.
    Dr. Gosar. I would just like to add, we have to find the 
money somewhere. And I would ask you specifically, where should 
that money go? What specific account would that money go to?
    Mr. LaCounte. That money would be spread across all of law 
enforcement throughout Indian Country, including drug 
enforcement, but we have serious problems on reservations, as 
well, with domestic violence. And drugs are a serious issue.
    And as Congressman Rosendale probably knows, I used to be 
the regional director in the state of Montana. And when I left 
to take this job in 2018, over 60 percent of the babies born 
were meth babies. And I don't know if throwing money at that is 
going to solve it, but not throwing money at it certainly isn't 
going to.
    Dr. Gosar. Right. The gentleman from Oregon, Mr. Bentz, is 
recognized for his 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for the 
invitation to participate today in this important hearing.
    There is no doubt at all about the horrific consequences of 
the open border policy. This is just one of them.
    One of the situations back in Oregon where I am from is the 
inability of local law enforcement, such as the sheriff's 
office, within the county where certain ones of the 
reservations might be located, for them to exercise power or 
authority over those on the reservation. And I am pretty sure 
this is kind of what you were hinting at on page 3 of your 
testimony, where you say exploiting the myriad of 
jurisdictional issues is a challenge. And I agree.
    I called my brother, who used to be the county sheriff back 
in Oregon in the county in which I live, a big county. The one 
he was in was 10,000 square miles, and there were actually two 
reservations there. But they were not welcome to help on the 
reservations. The tribal police, you would think, would take 
care of the problem, but there are two issues there.
    One you have kind of alluded to, the numbers of tribal 
police is modest. I think the national average is about one 
tribal police person, actually, it is 0.7 per 1,000. And 
nationwide, it should be three. So, there are too few.
    The other problem that appears to be a challenge is keeping 
those people that do become tribal police officers working. And 
there seems to be a lack of stability sometimes in tribal 
government that leads to those folks not sticking around.
    Perhaps you can address that issue. Do you have a study or 
something that indicates how long tribal police officers remain 
employed?
    And I am going to hope that you don't go back to money 
every time there is a problem. So, tell me, does anything that 
I have said ring any bells of recognition?
    Let's start with the lack of recognition, perhaps, by 
tribes of other law enforcement agencies who are driving 
around, deputy sheriffs perhaps, or state police, and those 
folks not having appropriate jurisdictional authority to step 
in. Thus, the cartels see tribal reservations as opportunity 
locations because there is not enough law enforcement there.
    So, comment on that first, if you could.
    Mr. LaCounte. At your wishes, I will not mention funding.
    Mr. Bentz. Well, wait, look, you mentioned the word. Last 
year, or the year before last, I think there was $700 million 
allocated to the tribes. I know it is not the $3 billion 
mentioned. Congress simply appropriated funds. Tribes should be 
allowed flexibility on how to utilize and invest those funds in 
their communities. It is not for DOI to now restrict how tribes 
use those funds.
    It says here, the bill's language, $772 million almost $800 
million, is designated for tribal government services such as 
public safety and justice. Where did that money go? As long as 
we are talking about funding.
    Mr. LaCounte. It went to the tribes.
    Mr. Bentz. OK, that was almost a billion dollars. About 
$800 million. Did that do no good?
    Mr. LaCounte. Well, every little bit does good, but----
    Mr. Bentz. Wait, wait. A little bit? $800 million. You 
spread it across the nation. How much did each tribe get?
    Mr. LaCounte. I don't know exactly. I would have to do the 
math. There are 198 facilities where we or the tribes provide 
Federal----
    Mr. Bentz. OK, well, did it help?
    Mr. LaCounte. Of course it helps.
    Mr. Bentz. How much did it help?
    Mr. LaCounte. As much as that amount can possibly help.
    Mr. Bentz. Let's go back. And maybe the simplest question 
would be, have you or are you aware of the fact that certain 
tribes are not enthusiastic about allowing local law 
enforcement to enforce laws on reservations?
    Mr. LaCounte. Yes.
    Mr. Bentz. And does this allow, then, less law enforcement 
activity than perhaps should be there?
    Mr. LaCounte. Tribes are sovereign nations.
    Mr. Bentz. Well, let's stop there. Are you saying, then, 
that the tribes have made a decision to allow less law 
enforcement than could be the case by simply saying to those 
who were already there, engaged in the law enforcement business 
to help? Is that what you are saying?
    Mr. LaCounte. I am saying I don't know the specifics of the 
situation, but if it is a tribal law enforcement agency and 
they said you are not welcome, that would be the tribe making 
that decision. That certainly would not be the Bureau of Indian 
Affairs.
    Mr. Bentz. And I think you said that that indeed is the 
case in different reservations across the nation, where they 
are not welcoming in an already available law enforcement help 
because they don't want it. Is that correct?
    Mr. LaCounte. That would be my assumption. I don't ask them 
why they choose not to do that. We encourage them to actually 
enter into MOUs and MOAs with the local law enforcement to 
where they can do cross-jurisdiction. Whether they choose to do 
it or not, that is up to the tribe.
    Mr. Bentz. It is up to them.
    Thank you, I yield back.
    Dr. Gosar. I thank the gentleman. The gentleman from 
Arizona, Mr. Crane, is recognized.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. LaCounte, thank you so much for coming today. We 
appreciate it.
    I am proud to represent over half the tribes in Arizona. I 
also serve on the House Homeland Security Committee. And I hear 
every single day about the crime and tragedy in my district 
that are a direct result of this Administration's border 
policies.
    BIA's Office of Justice Service has law enforcement 
authority on tribal lands in my district. Sir, is it true that 
OJS currently has a vacancy rate of 30 percent for all 
positions?
    Mr. LaCounte. That is roughly close, yes.
    Mr. Crane. Why do you think that is, sir?
    Mr. LaCounte. Recruitment is hard, very hard. And the 
background investigations that I spoke to take time. 
Oftentimes, we select somebody and by the time we get through 
that, they have found another job because they need to go to 
work.
    But we are not the only ones suffering from lack of law 
enforcement officers. That is a nationwide crisis at the 
moment. But we are certainly doing everything we can to combat 
it because we recognize more bodies, more cops on the ground is 
a good thing.
    Mr. Crane. Yes, absolutely, sir. Do you think that the 
Biden administration has their priorities straight when it 
comes to protecting the homeland and fulfilling government's 
trust and responsibility to protect the tribes and their 
citizens?
    Mr. LaCounte. The Administration has deferred to me on just 
about everything, and I have been doing this 36 years. I would 
like to think that is letting us do what we need to do.
    Mr. Crane. My question is, do you think that the Biden 
administration is doing a good job prioritizing the safety of 
everyone in this country, including the tribes, especially when 
it comes to the southern border, sir?
    Mr. LaCounte. I am not a border expert, No. 1.
    I can't speak to the rest of the nation, but through the 
BIA they have been nothing but supportive. And the budget 
increases that we have received lately have all been for public 
safety and justice.
    Mr. Crane. Sir, I know you claim that you are not a border 
security expert, and I can appreciate that. But I can also 
tell, just by listening to you talk today, that you do have 
common sense. You know what has been going on at the southern 
border since this Administration took control. And I know you 
know that is affecting tribes all across the nation. Would you 
say that is correct, sir?
    Mr. LaCounte. I would say that it is correct, but it was 
also an issue before.
    Mr. Crane. Yes, sir.
    Mr. LaCounte. We have been dealing with cartels long before 
this Administration, long before the last administration.
    Mr. Crane. Absolutely. We have always had things coming 
over the border that are unsavory. But I think everybody in 
this chamber knows that it has been skyrocketing under this 
Administration.
    Are you aware that, I think it was today, Joe Biden signed 
an Executive Order that will dramatically tighten the border?
    Mr. LaCounte. I saw it on the news this morning.
    Mr. Crane. Do you think that is interesting, seeing as how 
this Administration has been saying that they couldn't do 
anything about it, and it was Congress that wouldn't do 
anything about it? Do you find it interesting that Biden 
reversed Trump's Executive Orders? That was one of the first 
things he did when he got into office. And now that it is right 
before an election year, he just signed an Executive Order to 
tighten up how many people were allowed to come through that 
southern border?
    Mr. LaCounte. I haven't even seen the Executive Order. I 
will say that, if it helps us in my lane, which is Indian 
affairs, I am very happy. But I haven't read it. I can't speak 
to it.
    Mr. Crane. Yes, well, let's speak about generalities. Do 
you think it is interesting that President Biden just signed an 
Executive Order right before an election, when this whole time 
he has been saying, oh, it is Congress, it is Congress, they 
need to act and secure the southern border?
    Mr. LaCounte. I really try to stay out of politics. I have 
served in both administrations, and it doesn't serve the 
director well to go down any of those roads.
    Mr. Crane. I hear you, sir, and I appreciate that. I just 
do think it is rich, though, that when I listen to Ms. 
Stansbury and I listen to you, and you talk about how we need 
increased funding and resources, I noticed that you guys didn't 
mention the policies. You guys didn't mention the policy 
changes that are driving up the amount of resources and funding 
that have to go into combating the fentanyl.
    The MS-13 gang members coming over the southern border, the 
millions of extra illegal aliens, the vast increase of 
individuals on the terror watch list that have come over this 
Administration. So, it is kind of hard for us to have a real 
conversation when we are not having a real conversation about 
everything that is going on.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Dr. Gosar. I thank the gentleman. The gentlelady from New 
Mexico is recognized, Ms. Stansbury.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I find it extraordinarily distasteful and disrespectful 
when we call hearings about tribal issues and Members of 
Congress use the space to talk about policy and political 
issues that are not about the issue at hand. I think it is 
disrespectful to our tribes. I think it is disrespectful to the 
leaders. I think it is disrespectful to the folks who serve our 
tribal governments. And I would like to, for one, actually get 
back to the issue at hand.
    I have heard some comments, questions about how tribal law 
enforcement works this morning. And Mr. Chairman, I would love 
to work with you on a bipartisan basis to maybe do a teach-in 
for Members about how tribal law enforcement works. There have 
been a lot of questions about how funding works, about 
jurisdictional issues work, about how legal issues work. These 
are incredibly complex issues, and it is important to have a 
hearing about it. But I think a setting in which we could 
really get in the weeds would be very helpful.
    But I do want to make a comment because there have been a 
few comments this morning that said, tell us how we can fix the 
issue without talking about funding. Well, that is like saying 
how do we stop a fire without talking about water. Because the 
real issue is that we have been underfunding law enforcement 
and support for our tribes since treaties and trust 
responsibilities began between the U.S. Government and these 
Tribal Nations.
    So, we hear it literally every single day. Those of us who 
work with tribal governments, who work with our Tribal Nations 
are telling us, ``We need water to put out the fire.'' And the 
water in this case is the resources. So, I am going to just use 
a few quick examples of tribes that I interact with on a day-
to-day basis.
    The Navajo Nation, their Tribal Council just came to visit 
me a few days ago. They would like to renegotiate their law 
enforcement contract because they are underfunded. They do not 
have enough money through their contract to pay enough officers 
to patrol each of the areas that they need. That is, in part, 
just the history of that contract, but also because the 
population is growing because the need is growing. You need 
water to put out the fire. That is how tribes use the money. 
They need it to hire law enforcement.
    But I also think it is important that we talk a little bit 
about these jurisdictional issues. Tribes are sovereign 
nations. They decide what happens on their lands. And I think 
it is important to take a moment because, Director, you brought 
it up a couple of times here today. It is up to a Tribal Nation 
if they decide they want to do direct service, they want to 
contract for the money, they want to hire their own officers, 
they want to have extra BIA officers on tribal lands. It is 
really up to each of these sovereign nations and their 
relationship with you all.
    But it is also up to them to decide whether or not they 
want to cross-deputize, whether they want to work with county 
law enforcement, they want to work with local municipals 
outside the reservation, they want to invite state police onto 
their reservation because they are their lands.
    And what we have seen, I think, because there is a lack of 
understanding of tribal sovereignty, is that there has been a 
systematic effort for the last several decades to undermine 
tribal sovereignty, especially around law enforcement. And it 
is dangerous, and resulted just 2 years ago in the Castro-
Huerta decision that the Supreme Court handed down, and which 
tribes across the country are asking us to address right now.
    So, I wonder, Director, I am grateful to hear that you 
served at a regional level. Talk to us a little bit about, at 
the regional level, working in the BIA bureaucracy with our 
Tribal Nations, about these sovereignty and jurisdictional 
issues. What can we do to: (1) make sure more resources are 
reaching tribes at the ground; and (2) that BIA is doing its 
part to address these jurisdictional issues and help support 
tribes as they seek help and accountability?
    Mr. LaCounte. I would say that BIA and tribal law 
enforcement agencies are at the bottom of the pecking order on 
the Federal law enforcement. We don't get the respect that we 
deserve, and the tribes certainly don't get the respect they 
deserve. We are oftentimes up to their whim, what they want to 
pursue, not what the tribe wants to pursue and not what we want 
to pursue, but what they think is important because we don't 
take these cases to Federal court. That is another agency 
within the government. So, that makes it difficult.
    As for putting the fire out, you are absolutely correct. I 
have been around a long time, and I figured out early in my 
career here is what I am going to get. I am going to have to 
figure out how to make it work. It would be great at one time 
to not have to think that way, and maybe I am not the right guy 
for the job because I have always thought that way, and it is 
like, yes, we are at 13 percent, what the hell can we do? And I 
will leave it at that.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Director, and thank you, Mr. 
Chairman. I hope we can work together to put the fire out.
    Dr. Gosar. See, that is why we wanted the FBI and Homeland 
Security here, because we are chasing our tail around and 
around and around we go. Because if you can't talk to each 
other, you can't come up with solutions. Would you agree with 
that, Director?
    Mr. LaCounte. Yes.
    Dr. Gosar. I think the other thing is we have to streamline 
the process, but we also have to have a conversation. What does 
sovereignty mean? How is it enacted? All those have to have 
some similarities in regards to the tribes. Yes, they own their 
land, but they have to also have to be held to stewardship of 
those funds, even better than even the Federal Government. The 
Federal Government is horrible at that.
    A question: What role on these reservations do the drug 
traffickers play in this crisis?
    Mr. LaCounte. The drug traffickers?
    Dr. Gosar. Yes.
    Mr. LaCounte. I am not quite sure I understand your 
question, but I am going to give it a shot.
    Regardless of whether they are a cartel or a local mom-and-
pop organization trying to contaminate their own damn 
communities, deadly drugs on Indian reservations are horrible. 
But when you get an organized cartel, for instance, they are 
pretty good at what they do. And it has a serious impact on 
many reservations. I can't say all, but you never hear a tribe 
say, hey, we don't have any cartel problems. You hear them say 
we have a problem.
    So, it plays a significant role. But, again, drugs can come 
from anywhere. They just come in normally larger volumes from 
the cartels.
    Dr. Gosar. Right. So, now you see somebody possibly coming 
into this country legally, and they travel all the way through 
and deliver drugs. Does Homeland Security or the FBI have a 
watch list of known traffickers? They have something. And do 
they share it with the local authorities?
    Mr. LaCounte. I do not know the answer to that, 
Congressman.
    Dr. Gosar. OK. Would you get that for us?
    Mr. LaCounte. Yes.
    Dr. Gosar. I think it makes a big difference, because if we 
can preclude people to look for these individuals, it makes it 
a whole lot easier than trying to figure out if you remember 
that person.
    Can identified drug traffickers be banned from entering the 
United States?
    Mr. LaCounte. I think I heard your question, and certainly 
any drug trafficker should be banned from the United States. 
Absolutely.
    Dr. Gosar. What are the protocols across Federal law 
enforcement agencies to ensure that the information each has 
about a missing person is shared with tribal law enforcement?
    Mr. LaCounte. [No response.]
    Dr. Gosar. How do we make sure that people that are 
kidnapped or taken, how do we share that information?
    Mr. LaCounte. [No response.]
    Dr. Gosar. See, we get the same disconnect. I mean, 
Director, no pun to you, but you should have had two other 
partners here. You should have had the FBI and Homeland 
Security right here. The briefing does us no good just by 
themselves. I want to see the interaction between you, the 
tribes, them, and the Homeland Security. That makes more sense 
to me. Put everybody in a room and figure out what the problem 
is.
    But this doesn't make a lot of sense, because we are going 
around, and around, and around, and I feel sorry for you 
because you are put in a position where there is no winning. 
When you don't have winning, you don't have any hope. And I am 
sad to say that that is kind of what we apply on to our Native 
friends, is exactly that.
    I think this is a Catch-22, but I also think there is a 
light at the end of the tunnel. I think the tribes can show us 
a way to get back to a healthy community, a law-abiding 
community. And I think they have the ability to do that. Now we 
have to figure out how do we get those resources to them. How 
do we develop that?
    It may take some streamlining of the process. We may have 
to hire some within. I don't know what the whole answer is, but 
I think what we have you and the tribes in a pickle with, 
ultimately, is this around and around and here we go again, I 
am sad to say. I would love to work with you, and I think there 
will be plenty of things to be able to do.
    So, I want to ask you one more question. What was the one 
question that you wanted to have asked of you, and what was the 
answer?
    Mr. LaCounte. I didn't approach it in that direction. If 
you are on this side of the table, you come in trying to 
anticipate what you are going to get. I appreciate your 
statement that you have hope, because I too have hope, even as 
dire as it looks right now.
    I guess if there were one question I would like asked, it 
would be what can we do to further strengthen or embellish this 
notion of tribal sovereignty, and how can we get the tribes the 
respect that they deserve policing their own communities, 
making them safer? If you have a home you don't feel safe in, 
that is not a home. So, I don't know what the answer would be, 
but I would love to have that question.
    I guess my answer would be you have to help us. We have 
tried. Public Law 93-638 has been around a long time, and I 
have been through it in my 36 years, the progression of it. And 
it is better, but it still needs to give these tribes the 
respect that they deserve, just like states are given that 
respect. It is their home. It is their land. Who are we to tell 
them how to act and what is best for them?
    So, I hope that answers that question.
    Dr. Gosar. It does. I appreciate your candor. I thank the 
witness, Director, for your candor and your answers and your 
valuable testimony, and Members for their questions.
    We will now take a brief recess before beginning our second 
panel. During that time I invite all the witnesses to sit and 
get ready at the table for the hearing to proceed. And with 
that, there will be questions, Director, coming to you from the 
Members, and we will have them on a timely basis. Thank you 
very much. We adjourn temporarily.
    [Recess.]
    Dr. Gosar. I will now introduce the witnesses for our 
second panel. We have Mr. Joshua Roberge, Chief of Police, Fort 
Belknap Indian Community, Harlem, Montana, thank you for 
coming; Ms. Stacy Zinn, former Resident in Charge, Rocky 
Mountain Division, Drug Enforcement Administration, Billings, 
Montana; and Lieutenant John Nores, Jr., retired, Special 
Operations Marijuana Enforcement Team, California Department of 
Fish and Wildlife, Morgan Hill, California. An amazing story 
here.
    Let me remind the witnesses that under Committee Rules, you 
must limit your oral statements to 5 minutes, but your entire 
statement will appear in the record.
    I will now recognize Mr. Roberge for your 5 minutes.

      STATEMENT OF JOSHUA ROBERGE, CHIEF OF POLICE, FORT
          BELKNAP INDIAN COMMUNITY, HARLEM, MONTANA

    Mr. Roberge. Chairman Gosar, Ranking Member Stansbury, 
Congressman Rosendale, and members of the Subcommittee, my name 
is Josh Roberge. I have previously served 8 years in the United 
States military. And after being honorably discharged, I now 
serve as the Chief of Police for the Fort Belknap Indian 
Community. I am a member of the Assiniboine Nation, and 
appreciate the opportunity to testify about the impacts of drug 
cartels targeting Indian Country, and specifically the Fort 
Belknap Indian Community.
    The Fort Belknap Indian Reservation is located in north 
central Montana. It is comprised of 652,000 acres, almost as 
large as the state of Rhode Island. We have nearly 7,000 
members living on or near the reservation. The reservation is 
40 miles south of the Canadian border, and we have Federal 
funding for nine, that is pushing it, law enforcement officers. 
With nine, that offers two to three officers per shift on a 
good day, covering 1,014 square miles.
    As a combat veteran, I can attest to you guys right now 
that we have a war going on on U.S. soil. We are fighting these 
people. Whether that is directly or indirectly, they are 
committing violent acts against tribal citizens and U.S. 
citizens here. So, with that, I am here to offer six 
recommendations to possibly find a solution to this:
    (1) Expand tribal criminal jurisdiction in Indian Country.
    (2) Increase funding. I know it keeps getting brought up 
quite a bit, but the reality of the situation that we are in, 
we don't see any other way. We literally receive $1.3 million a 
year for our budget. That is ridiculous. It has been the same, 
give or take $100,000, since 1997. We are fighting a war that 
we are severely losing.
    Anyway, back to our recommendations. Increased funding for 
law enforcement and U.S. attorneys. There is a lot of 
frustration with U.S. attorneys. Do they prosecute? They don't 
prosecute. They want to keep their successful conviction rate, 
so they decline. The fact of the matter is we have two U.S. 
attorneys covering seven federally recognized Indian 
reservations in Montana. You imagine the cases that they are 
getting on their desks.
    We average 100 felony, not misdemeanor, arrests a month on 
our reservation out of 7,000 people, four murders in 3 months 
for our population. All of this stuff can be directly 
correlated, the increase in violent crime you see everywhere 
can be directly correlated to dangerous drugs and drug 
trafficking, human trafficking, child sex crimes, adult sex 
crimes, murders, all of that stuff. It is all directly 
correlated to dangerous drugs.
    These drugs, because of the stop of the sale of over-the-
counter Sudafed and stuff like that, these drugs are produced 
in superlabs across the border, and then they are brought here 
to the United States. So, we are seeing this increase in 
violent crime and all of this bad stuff that is happening: 
dangerous drugs, drug distribution, and an unsecure southern 
border.
    Moving on, (3) Coordination of Federal services.
    And obviously, (4) Secure the southern border. It is coming 
across the border freely. This is ridiculous. We are 40 miles 
south of the Canadian border, and we have individuals up there 
who are associated with either the Jalisco or the Sinaloa that 
can't speak a lick of English that are carrying firearms, 
trafficking humans, and committing murders as recently as 2 
months ago, 40 miles south of the Canadian border for drug-
related crimes.
    (5) Congress needs to pass legislation for more severe 
punishments on drugs, such as fentanyl and methamphetamine. 
Nobody is getting prosecuted on this stuff. And if we work 
together to take somebody down, another one pops up. This thing 
is like a hydra. You cut the head off of one, another one pops 
up.
    The biggest thing is the Federal system hasn't caught up 
with fentanyl yet. They have with methamphetamine. The 
mandatory sentencing minimum or the threshold for a 5-year 
minimum for sentencing on the Fed side would be 5 grams of 
methamphetamine. It is still 10 grams, to my understanding, for 
fentanyl. There are about 10 fentanyl pills, you guys are 
familiar with fentanyl pills, there are about 10 fentanyl pills 
per gram. It is about 100 fentanyl pills before you get a 5-
year mandatory minimum, so there needs to be legislative action 
to figure out some solutions here.
    (6) Implement the 2023 Not Invisible Act Commission Report 
recommendations.
    I have about a minute 20 left, so I will kind of specify a 
little bit more on some of the things that I am talking about 
here.
    Once again, congressional funding, increased law 
enforcement funding, increased United States Attorney's Office 
funding, Indian Country aid to protect our homeland and save 
lives.
    Two, secure that southern border. Tighten international 
borders. Stop the drugs. There is more that is coming across 
than that. There is a war going on right here, right now on 
U.S. soil. And I think that, as citizens of the United States, 
we need to open our eyes. There is stuff happening here that we 
are losing, and it is not just in Montana and Fort Belknap. It 
is everywhere. They are targeting Indian communities because of 
a jurisdictional loophole.
    And I would like to comment on a few things where we choose 
not to allow other law enforcement agencies, but with us in 
Montana, we welcome it. We have MOUs and we work well with the 
Montana Highway Patrol in our surrounding counties and other 
state agencies. The problem with this jurisdictional loophole, 
and this will be the last thing, is the county and the state, 
where we ask for their help, and these cartel members or non-
Indian members are coming in and victimizing or committing 
felonious offenses on the reservation. We are calling the state 
for help, the county for help. We are bringing them out, and 
they are arguing that it is the FBI's jurisdiction.
    The problem with that is the FBI doesn't arrest. They don't 
PC arrest, and the AUSA isn't allowing these PC arrests or 
these offenses to be complained in. So, what we are running 
into is we are seeing months while we wait for a warrant of 
arrest to be issued for either a grand jury indictment or an 
indictment, whatever, and these people are allowed to continue 
to victimize members of our community.
    There is a jurisdictional loophole, and they know that, and 
they are exploiting it, and that is why they are at 
reservations first, along with everything else that you guys 
have been hearing. This is an issue.
    Thank you for your time.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Roberge follows:]
    
Prepared Statement of Joshua Roberge, Chief of Police, on behalf of the 
Assiniboine and Gros Ventre Tribes of the Fort Belknap Indian Community

    Chairman Gosar, Ranking Member Stansbury, Congressman Rosendale, 
Congressman Zinke, and Members of the Subcommittee. My name is Josh 
Roberge, I previously served 8 years in the United States Army, and 
after being honorably discharged, I now serve as the Chief-of-Police of 
the Assiniboine (Nakoda) and Gros Ventre (Aaniih) Nations of the Fort 
Belknap Indian Community. I am a Member of the Assiniboine Nation and 
appreciate the opportunity testify today about the impacts of drug 
cartels targeting Indian Country- and specifically the Fort Belknap 
Indian Community.
    The Fort Belknap Reservation is located in north central Montana 
and is comprised of 652,000 acres (1,014 square miles) almost as large 
as the State of Rhode Island, and has nearly 7,000 members living on or 
near our Reservation. Fort Belknap is 40 miles South of the Canadian 
Border. We have federal funding for 9 Law Enforcement Officers which 
offers 2-3 Officers per shift.

    As a Combat Veteran, I can attest: Fort Belknap is at war with 
drugs! I am here to offer 6 recommendations:

  1.  Expand Tribal Criminal Jurisdiction in Indian Country

  2.  Increase Funding for Law Enforcement and U.S. Attorneys

  3.  Coordination of Federal Services

  4.  Secure the Southern Border of the United States

  5.  Congress needs to pass legislation for more severe punishments on 
            drugs such as fentanyl and methamphetamine

  6.  Implement the 2023 Not Invisible Act Commission Report 
            Recommendations

    The U.S. Supreme Court's Oliphant decision limits the ability of 
Native Nations to prosecute non-Indians. Oliphant v. Suquamish Indian 
Tribe, 435 U.S. 191 (1978). Currently Tribal Governments across Indian 
Country do not have criminal jurisdiction over non-Indians committing 
drug-related crimes in Indian Country. When a non-Indian commits a 
crime, our law enforcement is required to contact either the county 
and/or the FBI.
    A few weeks ago, we had a non-Indian drug dealer dealing and living 
on our Reservation. In the course of the Tribal Law Enforcement 
investigation, this non-Indian drug dealer was found with a large 
amount of methamphetamine. He had a scale, drug paraphernalia, had 
beaten a Tribal Member, and has a history of committing other drug-
crimes. The local County was called, as well as the FBI. Due to the on-
going criminal behavior of this non-Indian drug dealer, the Tribal 
Court issued a preliminary Order to Exclude him from our Reservation as 
per the Fort Belknap Indian Community's Constitution. The non-Indian 
Drug Dealer violated this within the week of the issuance of the order.
    On May 22, 2024, our Tribal Council had an Exclusion Hearing to 
require the non-Indian drug dealer to be excluded from our Reservation 
indefinitely. During the Hearing, the non-Indian drug dealer stood 
before our Tribal Council and boasted: ``YOU HAVE NO JURISDICTION OVER 
ME. THE COUNTY MIGHT, THE FEDS MIGHT, BUT YOU DON'T.'' He further 
boasted that when he violated the Court's Order, he did so by driving 
onto our Reservation on a ``State Highway'' implying that our Tribal 
Council had no authority to exclude him because he was on a State 
Highway driving on our Reservation.
    As this situation demonstrates, these drug cartels have targeted 
reservation communities because of the rural terrain, history of 
community addiction, and limited law enforcement resources. Cartels are 
specifically targeting Indian Country because of a dangerous 
combination of under-resourced law enforcement, legal loopholes, 
sparsely populated communities, and exorbitant profits, and it is 
devastating Tribal reservations. Profits for these cartels soar the 
farther they get from the southern border. A fentanyl pill that costs 
less than $1.00 in Mexico and southern states, can go for over $100 on 
our Reservation.
    As the drug cartels seep deeper into Indian Country, they know of 
the limited resources that we have. Montana is 147,040 square miles--
slightly larger than Japan. It is the 4th largest State in the United 
States behind, Texas, Alaska and California. In 2024, it is reported 
that only 20 DEA Agents cover the entire state. The DEA sends drug 
testing to their Crime Lab located in California and the test results 
are not known for 8 months or more after the crimes are committed, 
which also limits speedy-trials. The cartels know this--so it is easy 
for them to attempt to take-over reservations.
    On April 23, 2024, our Tribal Council met with Jesse Laslovich and 
Amanda Myers with the United States Attorney's Office. The Fort Belknap 
Indian Community Council requested that Mr. Laslovich and the DEA 
attempt to work with the Montana State Crime Lab in order to receive 
faster drug test results and more prosecutions. As to the Montana 
United States Attorney's Office, currently there are a total of 6 
Assistance United States Attorneys (AUSA) in Montana--3 are located in 
Great Falls (4 hours from Fort Belknap), 2 in Billings (3 hours from 
Fort Belknap), and 1 in Helena (4 hours from Fort Belknap)--2 of these 
6 ASUAs are assigned to serve all of Indian Country in Montana. And the 
last federal budget cuts blocked a proposed AUSA Prosecutor from 
Montana.
    It was reported to our Tribal Council that prior to AUSA Jesse 
Laslovich's appointment in Montana, there was 1 violent crime case 
prosecuted from Fort Belknap prior to his arrival, 3 violent crimes 
prosecuted the year he arrived, 11 violent crimes prosecuted the next 
year and it was reported that they currently have 7 violent crime cases 
pending prosecution. While the United States Attorney's Office attempts 
to meet with our Law Enforcement monthly, our Tribes very rarely see 
any FBI presence. There appears to be an ongoing disconnect between the 
FBI and AUSA and Fort Belknap Law Enforcement as to the evidence 
gathering and prosecution of cases. Our Law Enforcement reports crime 
to the federal agencies and yet we get limited to no feedback from the 
FBI as to the status of any pending case. On April 23, 2024, our Tribal 
Council made a specific request through Mr. Laslovich to have the FBI 
present at the Council Meeting Discussions and the on-going monthly 
case-staffings.
    Our Tribes are finding that the FBI is reactive not proactive. And 
this is frustrating. The FBI has jurisdiction over non-Indians and our 
Tribal Law Enforcement Officers' hands are tied because we only have 
jurisdiction over Tribal Members. So we get into situations where if 
the FBI has jurisdiction over a criminal case and that person is not 
immediately arrested, the County Sheriff won't arrest because they say 
the FBI has jurisdiction. So the suspects are not arrested and are 
allowed to continue to victimize members of our Community. Further, the 
federal punishment is less severe on the federal-side for drugs than it 
is for the State/County. And the Border Patrol on the other hand cannot 
initiate contact with anyone that they believe may be illegal unless 
there is a local law enforcement agency that makes contact first and 
requests them. This further slows the process when the Northern Border 
is within 40 Miles of our Reservation.
    The National Congress of American Indians authored a Report to 
Congress in 2006 which put the federal government on notice that drug 
cartels were moving onto the Reservations but nothing has been done. 
The other government arm that fails us is the Border Patrol. They know 
Mexican or other illegal aliens are on Reservations but do nothing. Our 
People get harassed when they cross the Border with sacred objects even 
though our Border-crossing rights are protected by the Jay-Treaty, yet 
the cartel seem to be able to get right through.
    Fort Belknap Law Enforcement is seriously underfunded by the 
federal government and by BIA. Recall: our Reservation is the size of 
Rhode Island and we have total BIA funding for 9 Law Enforcement 
Officers. Officers lack equipment and are untrained to handle this 
crisis. The Fort Belknap Indian Community contracts the Law Enforcement 
through the 638-contracting process. In 1997 the federal government 
offered $1.2 Million dollars to Fort Belknap for Law Enforcement--and 
27 years later offer $1.3 Million. Due to the funding disparity, the 
Fort Belknap Community has a pending federal lawsuit against the United 
States government due to its breach of contract and trust 
responsibilities owed to our People.
    BIA Law Enforcement Training is located in Artesia, New Mexico, 
which is located 1,279.5 Miles away from the Fort Belknap Indian 
Community. If Law Enforcement applicants are trained by state law 
enforcement, they are required to receive the additional federal 
training in Artesia, New Mexico. Our Law Enforcement recruitment and 
retention challenges are hard enough with the basic requirements of 
needing the training. BIA needs to be on-board with finding Law 
Enforcement Training locations in the Great Plains Region or work with 
state law enforcement trainings to implement federal law enforcement 
requirements.
    It is repeatedly reported to us that drug cartels are targeting our 
Native women and using homes on reservations as safe houses and 
distribution hubs. They are able to operate with impunity because of 
complex jurisdictional rules and the fact that Tribal law enforcement 
agencies have been under-resourced and under-staffed for decades. This 
problem is directly connected to our War on Drug Crisis, our 
communities are reporting more instances of sexual abuse, human 
trafficking, child abuse and domestic violence. And it creates a 
frightening environment of lawlessness. President Stiffarm previously 
asked: Why should we be afraid in our own Country? And as a Combat 
Veteran, I concur with his assessment that Congress funds billions in 
federal aid to foreign countries to protect their borders and to kill 
their enemies. The Fort Belknap Indian Community needs funding to 
protect our own borders in order to live peacefully.
    As recently as November 2023, the Not Invisible Act Commission 
congressional report found made specific recommendations for Congress 
after detailing Indian Country's lack of law enforcement, lack of 
federal coordination and cooperation with Tribal and Local Governments, 
lack of training of Law Enforcement, lack of jurisdictional 
understanding, and of course, lack of funding. Fort Belknap Indian 
Community agrees with the Not Invisible Act Commission's 
recommendations and urges Congress to implement the recommendations. 
Congress and Indian Country have proven, through these Commission 
Reports, that in order to protect ourselves, Tribal governments need to 
have the financial resources and the ability to exercise Tribal 
Criminal jurisdiction over all People and all crimes that occur within 
our Reservations. (See also Commission Reports from the Tribal Law and 
Order Act of 2010 (``TLOA'') and the Violence Against Women 
Reauthorization Act (VAWA) of 2013 and its 2022 Amendments.)
    We cannot continue to allow cartels to take advantage of the holes 
in our justice system and we cannot win this violent war by ourselves. 
I encourage you to do everything possible to ensure we have the tools 
and resources we need to keep our communities safe.
    In Conclusion, 100 Years Ago, thru the Indian Citizenship Act of 
June 2, 1924, Congress wanted United States Citizenship to all Native 
Americans born in the United States. You wanted Us to be Citizens of 
the United States: now You have a duty to protect all of us--including 
the Protection of Our Borders of our Reservations.

    I thank you for your time and am happy to answer any questions.
                                 ______
                                
    Dr. Gosar. Thank you. I thank the gentleman for his 
testimony. I now recognize Ms. Zinn for her testimony.

     STATEMENT OF STACY ZINN, FORMER RESIDENT IN CHARGE,
      ROCKY MOUNTAIN  DIVISION,  DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMIN-
      ISTRATION, BILLINGS, MONTANA

    Ms. Zinn. Thank you. My name is Stacy Zinn. I am the former 
Resident Agent in Charge for the DEA of Montana. I am going to 
give you a little bit of history and why we are at where we are 
at.
    Back in 2014, as a new group supervisor for the Eastern 
District of Montana Tactical Diversion Team, my job was to 
oversee the teams that were developing investigations targeting 
those that were diverting prescription pills like OxyContin and 
other opioids. A single 30 milligram of oxy would cost 
approximately $35 on the streets in Billings. You take that 
pill up to Rocky Boy's Reservation, they could charge $67 for 
that one pill. You shift over to the Fort Peck Reservation, 
that one pill cost $89 back then.
    The pill prices were extremely profitable for nefarious 
drug organizations, and this caught the attention of the 
Mexican cartel. While the cartels had a reputation of 
exploiting the Native American communities with the meth sales, 
it wasn't until the explosion of fentanyl that the cartels 
became overt. Rumors of the Sinaloa Cartel distributing illegal 
drugs on the Crow and Northern Cheyenne Reservations have 
always surfaced, and while there was some evidence of this 
being the case, we were unable to prosecute these 
investigations because we could not get enough evidence.
    Fast forward to 2019. The Sinaloa Cartel was making their 
move from the southwestern portion of the state, Butte, 
Montana, and then traveling all the way across to Fort Peck 
Reservation. An investigation led to the successful 
prosecution, but it resulted in the seizure of 65 pounds of 
meth, more than 2,000 pills, fake pills, 3 pounds of heroin. 
The agents also confiscated over $32,000 and 19 firearms. Post-
arrest statements indicated that the Sinaloa Cartel was 
expanding into the reservations.
    In 2022, rumors of cartel presence was taking place on the 
Crow Reservation. Once it was learned that the cartel, believed 
to be Nueva Generacion Cartel, CJNG, was operating and moving 
freely on the reservation, I directed my Billings team to 
hyper-focus on this investigation. DEA, along with FBI and BIA, 
teamed up and started long-term investigation. The 
investigation centered on the Crow Indian Reservation, where 
cartels' associates took over at least two properties and used 
them to distribute meth to people on the reservation, as well 
as nearby Northern Cheyenne Indian Reservation, Fort Belknap 
Reservation, Rocky Boy's Reservation, Flathead Reservation, and 
up into the town of Billings. This cartel was based in 
Washington State, near a separate reservation.
    The New York Times later wrote in their Montana Cartel 
expose, ``A second Federal drug investigation in Montana has 
led to charges against more than two dozen people, and includes 
allegations of Mexican cartel members using Native Americans as 
pawns in their operation. This investigation is still being 
adjudicated, and current public information is limited in order 
for the last of the defendants to have a fair trial.''
    While the above investigation has left a temporary cartel 
void in the reservations, a lot of intelligence was learned. 
The cartels do not want to give up this territory where they 
can have such control. The price markup of these drugs being 
purchased in Montana is tripled, compared to larger cities in 
the surrounding states. This is a huge attraction to those that 
are manufacturing and selling the drugs, mainly the Mexican 
cartels.
    Due to the lack of law enforcement at both the local and 
Federal levels, the Mexican cartel is taking full advantage. 
Members of the cartel will prey on the Native community by 
giving small amounts of drugs for free, or have the individuals 
start selling for the cartels in order to get a payout in 
drugs. However, time and time again, we will see that the 
Natives will start using the drugs they are supposed to be 
selling, which leads to them getting into debt with the 
cartels. At this point, the cartels have muscled their way into 
the collective groups and monies are now owed. A vicious cycle 
occurs, and eventually individuals are so far into debt they do 
not know how to get out from underneath the cartels. The cycle 
is only broken when that seller is arrested by law enforcement 
or killed.
    So, why do we have this problem in Montana? A lack of law 
enforcement at both the local and Federal level has created a 
vacuum. Montana local law enforcement, to include the Montana 
Criminal Division's investigations, do not have the authorities 
to conduct law enforcement activities on the reservation 
without a signed MOU with the tribe. These MOUs have become 
rare.
    Tribal police, while currently on most of the reservations, 
are lacking in manpower, investigative tools, and sometimes are 
compromised. Federal agencies such as the DEA and FBI are 
limited in their resources. A four-man enforcement drug team 
for the DEA, the ones in the eastern district of Montana, is 
beyond unbelievable, especially when they have to cover 
Gallatin County and Bozeman, where there are two cartels 
present, and also Yellowstone County, where the cartels and 
gang members are establishing territories. The FBI had their 
hands tied up with both assault investigations, and their 
numbers of agents are limited, too.
    The BIA has its own issues: lack of manpower to cover the 
reservations, hiring issues, and an inability to keep drug 
agents employed in certain reservations due to harsh working 
conditions.
    Before COVID, a review was conducted by representatives of 
the DOJ pertaining to the lack of law enforcement presence on 
the reservations and the need for more BIA representation. It 
was at these meetings where it was openly discussed that the 
cartel presence would only get worse if actions were not taken. 
Unfortunately, with all these above issues combined, the 
Mexican cartel has taken full advantage of the USA's inability 
to man the reservations and the surrounding areas. At some 
point, we need to take the cartel presence seriously.
    Whether it is the reservations, Bozeman, Butte, Billings, 
or Great Falls, the need for change is real. We cannot continue 
to be idle and sit on our hands.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Zinn follows:]
    
 Prepared Statement of Stacy Zinn, Former DEA Group Supervisor for the 
         Eastern District of Montana's Tactical Diversion Group

    In 2014, I, Stacy Zinn, was a new DEA Group Supervisor for the 
Eastern District of Montana's Tactical Diversion Group. My job was to 
oversee the teams that were developing investigations targeting those 
that were diverting prescription pills like Oxycontin and other 
opioids. A single 30 mg of Oxy pill would cost approximately $35.00 on 
the streets of Billings, Montana but you could sell that same pill for 
approximately $67.00 on the Rocky Boy Reservation and $89.00 on the Ft. 
Peck reservation. The pill prices were extremely profitable for 
nefarious drug organizations and this caught the attention of the 
Mexican Cartels. While the cartels had a reputation of exploiting the 
Native American communities with meth sales, it wasn't until the 
explosion of fentanyl that the cartels became overt.
    Rumors of the Sinaloa Cartel distributing illegal drugs on Crow and 
Northern Cheyenne reservations have always surfaced, and while there 
were some evidences of this being the case, investigators were unable 
to put together a prosecutorial case. Fast forward to 2019, the Sinaloa 
Cartel was making their move from the southwestern portion of the 
state, Butte, Montana, across to the Ft. Peck Reservation, which is 
located in the northeastern portion of Montana. Ultimately, the multi-
agency investigation resulted in the seizure of 65 pounds of meth, more 
than 2,000 counterfeit OxyContin pills laced with fentanyl and 3 pounds 
of heroin. The agents also confiscated more than $32,000 in cash and 19 
firearms. Post arrest statements indicated that the Sinaloa Cartel was 
expanded into the reservation.
    In 2022, rumors of cartel presence were taking place on the Crow 
Reservation. Once it was learned that the cartel, believed to have been 
Jalisco New Generation Cartel or CJNG, was physically moving onto the 
Crow Reservation, I directed my Billings team to hyper focus on this 
investigation. DEA, along with FBI and Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA), 
teamed up and started a long-term investigation. The investigation 
centered on the Crow Indian Reservation, where cartel associates took 
over at least two properties and used them to distribute meth to people 
on the reservation as well as the nearby Northern Cheyenne Indian 
Reservation, Ft. Belknap Reservation, Rocky Boy Reservation, Flathead 
Reservation and in the town of Billings. This cartel was based in 
Washington state near a separate reservation. The New York Times later 
wrote in their Montana cartel expose, ``A second federal drug case in 
Montana has led to charges against more than two dozen people and 
includes allegations of Mexican cartel members using Native Americans 
as pawns in the operation.'' This investigation is still being 
adjudicated and current public information is limited in order for the 
last of the defendants to have a fair trial.
    While the above investigation has left a temporary cartel void in 
the reservations, a lot of intelligence was learned. The cartels will 
not want to give up territory where they can have such control. The 
price mark up of drugs being purchased in Montana is tripled compare to 
larger cities located in the surrounding states. This is a huge 
attraction to those that are manufacturing and selling the drugs, 
mainly, the Mexican Cartels. Due to the lack of law enforcement at both 
the local and federal levels, the Mexican Cartel is taking full 
advantage. Members of the cartel will prey on the Native Community by 
giving small amounts of drugs for free or have the individuals start 
selling for the cartels in order to get a payout in drugs. However, 
time and again, we see that the natives will start using the drugs they 
are supposed to be selling which leads to them getting into debt with 
the cartels. At this point, the cartels have muscled their way into the 
collective group and monies are now owed. A vicious cycle occurs and 
eventually the individuals are so far into debt, that they do not know 
how to get up from underneath the cartels. The cycle is only broken 
when that seller is arrested by law enforcement or is killed.
    So why do we have this problem in Montana? A lack of law 
enforcement at both the local and federal level has created a vacuum. 
Montana local law enforcement, to include the Montana Criminal Division 
of Investigations, do not have the authorities to conduct law 
enforcement activities on the reservation without a signed MOU with the 
tribe. These MOUs have become rare. Tribal police, while currently on 
most of the reservations, are lacking in man-power, investigative tools 
and sometimes are compromised. Federal agencies such as the DEA and FBI 
are limited in their resources. A four-man enforcement drug team for 
the Eastern District of Montana is beyond unbelievable especially when 
they have to cover Gallatin County (Bozeman) who is known for their 
cartel activities and Yellowstone County (Billings) where cartels and 
gang members are establishing territories. The FBI have their hands 
tied up with both assault investigations and their numbers of agents 
are limited too. The BIA has its own issues: lack of man power to cover 
the reservations, hiring issues and the inability to keeping drug 
agents in employed in certain reservations due to the harsh working 
conditions. Before COVID, a review was conducted by representatives 
from DOJ pertaining to the lack of law enforcement presence on the 
reservations and the need for more BIA representation. It was at these 
meetings where it was openly discussed that the cartel presence would 
only get worst if actions were not taken.
    Unfortunately, with all of these above issues combined, the Mexican 
Cartel has taken full advantage of the U.S.A's inability to man the 
reservations and the surrounding areas. At some point, we need to take 
the cartel presence seriously. Whether it is the reservations, Bozeman, 
Butte, Billings or Great Falls, the need for change is real. We cannot 
continue to be idle and sit on our hands.
                                 ______
                                
    Dr. Gosar. Thank you, Ms. Zinn. The gentleman from 
California, Mr. John Nores, Jr., is recognized for 5 minutes.

     STATEMENT OF JOHN NORES, JR., LIEUTENANT (RETIRED),
      SPECIAL OPERATIONS,  MARIJUANA  ENFORCEMENT  TEAM,
      CALIFORNIA   DEPARTMENT  OF  FISH  AND   WILDLIFE,
      MORGAN HILL, CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Nores. Good afternoon, Chairman Gosar and esteemed 
Members of Congress. It is an honor to speak with you all again 
today in our nation's capital. I was a game warden in 
California for 28 years, part of our nationwide thin green line 
of conservation officers protecting our nation's wildlife, 
waterways, and wild lands.
    The Mexican cartels, along with other worldwide 
Transnational Criminal Organizations, or TCOs, have become the 
biggest domestic public safety threat and some of the greatest 
destroyers of our natural resources, especially on tribal 
lands.
    Our first violent encounter with the cartels was during an 
allied agency cartel Cannabis Grow raid on pristine public land 
in the Silicon Valley foothills. When ambushed by cartel 
gunmen, my young warden partner was near fatally shot through 
both legs by an AK-47. This was the first time we had learned 
of the highly toxic EPA-banned poisons, neurotoxins like 
carbofuran, Furadan, metaphos, being smuggled into the United 
States through our southern border, the massive amounts of 
water stealing and water pollution, the anti-personnel traps 
like Vietnam-era punji pits throughout many of these 
clandestine grow sites, and killing of numerous wildlife 
species.
    These public and tribal land grow sites can be as remote as 
10 miles into pristine tribal back country, or as close as a 
few hundred yards from a children's summer camp and Silicon 
Valley hillside homes.
    After four more officer-involved shootings, I was honored 
to co-develop and lead the Marijuana Enforcement Team, the MET, 
in 2013, a specialized game warden unit comprised of lifesaving 
apprehension canines, a sniper observer unit, and skilled 
operators dedicated to this fight.
    Through 800 missions, we eradicated 3 million cannabis 
plants, most of them toxically tainted with EPA-banned 
chemicals, destroyed 29 tons of processed cannabis for sale, 
and made 973 felony arrests on growers, many classified as 
deportable felons with extensive criminal histories.
    On the environmental damage front, our team removed 450 
tons of gross site waste, 455 miles of water diversion pipe, 
756 gallons of illegal and toxic chemicals, and dismantled and 
restored waterways being diverted by 793 dams, accounting for 
millions of gallons of water being stolen from pristine public 
and tribal land tracks.
    With Tribal Nations throughout California outnumbered and 
understaffed, our MET was honored to team up with the Northern 
California's Hoopa Valley and Yurok Tribal Police to assist in 
their fight to stop cartel destruction of their waterway, 
wildlife, and wildland resources.
    Over the last 11 years, we have collaborated with these 
tribes on numerous cartel cannabis grow operations, and 
witnessed the egregious impacts to their pristine tribal 
waterways, specifically the Trinity River. The Trinity is the 
lifeblood of both tribes, and relied upon for drinking water, 
ceremonies, salmon, their main food source, and steelhead 
trout, a state and federally listed endangered species.
    It was a privilege to work alongside tribal police officers 
dedicated to stopping the destruction of their sacred waterway 
and wildlife resources while protecting their communities. 
During operations we encountered hundreds of historical grow 
sites, found numerous EPA-banned toxic poisons, dismantled 
countless water diversions, removed hundreds of tons of grow 
site waste and pollutants, and restored hundreds of waterways 
with our tribal partners.
    While I have highlighted the destruction of our wildlife 
and waterway resources engendered by these criminal groups, we 
must remember that these cartels are polycriminals that engage 
in numerous other public safety crimes, even in the most remote 
regions of my home state now in Montana.
    As my dedicated colleagues from Montana have just 
testified, the fentanyl black market has become a cartel cash 
cow, with their deadly product killing, on average, 200 
Americans a day, 73,000 of our citizens each year, with a 
skewed percentage of those being on tribal lands.
    Given that a single fentanyl tablet can yield up to $90 on 
the black market on remote tribal lands, the cartels have moved 
in and taken over the fentanyl trade while engaging in human 
trafficking, theft, and other public safety crimes. These 
vulnerable communities are being targeted, with crime and 
overdoses surging throughout Tribal Nations in the most remote 
and vast parts of Montana. Mexican cartels have targeted the 
Crow, Cheyenne, and Blackfeet Tribes, leaving them strung out, 
addicted, and decimated.
    Tribal police officers are simply vastly outnumbered, 
making it nearly impossible to hinder any cartel operations 
within their districts. These examples illustrate the 
pervasiveness of cartel operations throughout America, 
especially in tribal lands. Our people and our wildlife and 
waterway resources are being destroyed, and stopping the 
cartels from poisoning our tribal communities must be a top 
priority.
    Thank you, and I am happy to answer any questions you have.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Nores follows:]
    
  Prepared Statement of Lieutenant John Nores Jr. (ret.), California 
 Dept. of Fish and Wildlife, Marijuana Enforcement Team (MET), Special 
                               Operations

    My name is John Nores, and I am a retired special operations game 
warden Lieutenant from the California Department of Fish and Wildlife 
(CDFW). It was an honor to be a game warden and serve 28 years 
protecting our nation's wildlife, waterway and wildland resources and 
stopping wildlife and environmental protection law violators was a 
privilege.
    California game wardens are statewide police officers while also 
being federally deputized to enforce Federal wildlife protection laws. 
I began my journey with the police training academy in 1992 and at that 
time I could never have anticipated that the end of my operational 
career two decades later would be spent leading a specialized unit of 
game wardens dedicated to combating Transnational Criminal 
Organizations (TCO's), aka ``cartel'' infiltration of our nation's 
pristine public and rural private lands to grow toxically tainted 
black-market cannabis for nationwide distribution.
    This proved to be true as drug cartel operations within California 
and every other state in our nation have become some of the most 
egregious environmental and wildlife resource crimes and public safety 
threats we have seen throughout America.
    Through their use of US EPA banned chemical insecticides and 
rodenticides (carbofuran, Metaphos, Q-Furan, etc.) and massive amounts 
of water theft (especially alarming during recent peak drought years in 
the country) throughout tens of thousands of clandestine cannabis grow 
sites on both public and private land, cartel cells are poisoning 
waterways, killing numerous wildlife species, destroying wildland 
trees, vegetation and grass lands while posing a severe threat to our 
public's safety.
    The public safety threats posed by these criminal cells are evident 
in cartel grow sites we have encountered with firearms, stabbing 
blades, and various anti-personal traps (i.e., Vietnam war era punji 
pits) as well as toxic poisons and other public safety threats common 
throughout these sites.
    The cartel's propensity for violence, however, was first witnessed 
on a deadly cannabis grow arrest and eradication mission in the Silicon 
Valley foothills we conducted with the Santa Clara County Sheriff's 
Office on August 5th, 2005.
    While entering the grow site, our allied agency enforcement team 
was ambushed by cartel gunmen defending their multi-million dollar 
complex and a gunfight ensued. A near-fatal bullet from a grower's AK47 
struck our young warden teammate, penetrating both of his legs before 
an agonizing 3 hour wait for his helicopter evacuation to the hospital.
    That incident was the first time a law enforcement officer in 
America had been hit and nearly killed by a clandestine marijuana 
grower's bullet, and our first violent encounter with tactically savvy 
cartel operatives from Mexico running their operations in the US, in 
this case within the Silicon Valley.
    We would have four more officer involved shooting incidents and 
numerous other violent encounters with cartel grower groups defending 
their black-market cannabis operations throughout California before I 
was tasked with co-developing and leading a special operations group of 
game wardens within our agency called the Marijuana Enforcement Team 
(MET).

    Comprised of officers with extensive tactical experience, 
wilderness fieldcraft, (stalking, apprehension, and survival skills), 
amazing lifesaving apprehension and detection K9 partners, a sniper 
unit, national guard, and allied agency law enforcement helicopter 
teams, the MET's mission was clear:

     Apprehend and prosecute illegal and dangerous growers to 
            protect our public.

     Eradicate their black market (in many cases poisonous and 
            highly toxic) crop before reaching the national black 
            market.

     Environmentally restore illegal outdoor trespass grow 
            sites by removing water diversions, restoring waterways, 
            removing grow site poisons, encampments, and other waste to 
            reclamate the site back to its natural state on pristine 
            public and private lands.

    I led the MET until operational retirement in December 2018 and 
between July 2013 and December 2018, our documented production levels 
paint an ominous picture during those first five years:

     800 arrest, eradication, environmental reclamation 
            missions.

     Destroyed three million toxically tainted cannabis plants.

     Destroyed 58,677 pounds (29 tons) of toxically tainted 
            processed cannabis for sale and distribution.

     Made 973 felony arrests (approximately 90% of those 
            arrests made on cartel or cartel affiliated Mexican 
            nationals operating in the US illegally).

     Seized and destroyed 601 firearms.

     Removed 899,945 pounds (450 tons) of grow site waste and 
            other pollutants.

     Removed 2.35 million feet (455 miles) of irrigation pipe.

     Removed 91,728 pounds (46 tons) of fertilizers.

     Removed 756 gallons of illegal toxic chemicals.

     Dismantled 793 water stealing dams from these clandestine 
            grow complexes with these dams (and many other illegal 
            cannabis water diversions) depleting billions of gallons of 
            water during California's peak drought period.

    These figures represent only a fraction of the extent of damage 
cartels generate throughout the US with a significant amount of these 
clandestine grow sites occurring on our most vulnerable communities, 
remote tribal lands.

    Given an estimated hundreds of thousands of cartel operatives that 
have infiltrated reservations across the American West, and the 
extremely limited number of tribal enforcement personnel responsible 
for covering massive territories, tribal police forces cannot 
effectively combat this problem alone. Outnumbered, understaffed and 
underfunded, Northern California's Hoopa Valley and Yurok tribes 
reached out to our MET for assistance.

    Between 2013 and 2018 we committed to working directly with both 
tribes being impacted by large numbers of cartel marijuana grow 
operations on their forests. Of most concern were the egregious impacts 
to pristine tribal waterways, specifically the Trinity river. The 
Trinity is the lifeblood of both tribes and relied on for drinking 
water, ceremonies and their main food source--salmon. And near and dear 
to us game wardens, the Trinity river also hosts steelhead trout, a 
state and federally listed endangered species.

    It was a privilege to work alongside tribal police officers 
dedicated to stopping the cartel's destruction of their sacred waterway 
and wildlife resources while protecting their communities. During these 
allied agency operations, we encountered hundreds of historical cartel 
grow sites, found numerous EPA banned toxic poisons throughout those 
clandestine grows, dismantled numerous water diversions, removed 
hundreds of tons of grow site waste and pollutants and restored 
hundreds of waterways.

    While I have outlined the wild land, waterway and wildlife resource 
crimes engendered by these criminal groups and the associated dangers 
to our public's safety from my operational experience, we must remember 
that these TCO's are poly-criminals whose organizations engage in 
numerous other public safety crimes beyond toxically tainted black 
market cannabis production.

    DEA officials point out that the Mexican cartels are now partnered 
with the Chinese cartels to the benefit of both organizations. Chinese 
crime groups supply the pre-cursor chemicals the Mexican cartels need 
to produce and distribute fentanyl and meth-amphetamine now killing 
hundreds of thousands of Americans annually, while the Chinese have 
virtually taken over the black market cannabis trade using America as 
the middle man to launder billions of untraceable cash dollars (https:/
/youtu.be/xMsLDv4M0VM?si=Bkk8IqHS5F4DEZsH).

    Once again, our most vulnerable communities are being heavily 
targeted with crime and overdoses surging throughout tribal nations. In 
my home state of Montana for example, the Mexican cartels have targeted 
tribal communities in the most remote part, of the most remote state, 
in our nation.

    Given that a single deadly fentanyl tablet can yield up to $100 on 
the black market, the cartels have moved in and taken over the fentanyl 
and meth-amphetamine trade, while engaged in numerous other crimes 
throughout these communities including human trafficking, theft and 
more. Tribes like the Crow, Cheyenne and Black Feet are being decimated 
as cartel operatives are leaving reservation communities strung out, 
addicted or worse.

    Given the vastness of this part of Montana, tribal police officers 
are even more outnumbered with an average of two BIA officers 
responsible for approximately 440,000 remote acres making it nearly 
impossible to hinder any cartel operations within their jurisdiction.

    These examples from my past and present home states illustrate how 
effective and efficient the cartels are operating throughout all of 
America, especially on our tribal lands. None of us are immune to the 
dangers these criminal groups present throughout our homeland as our 
public and our pristine wildland, waterway and wildlife resources 
continue to be poisoned and destroyed. Given everything we have seen 
while combating this issue, stopping the cartels from operating within 
America to poison our tribal communities must be a top priority.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                                 ------
                                 

    Dr. Gosar. Thank you, Lieutenant. I will now go to the 
Members for some questions. Right off the bat is the Chair of 
the Full Committee, Mr. Westerman.
    You are up for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Westerman. Thank you, Chairman Gosar, and thank you to 
the witnesses for being here today.
    This is a topic that is not getting nearly enough 
attention. It is something that has come up in other hearings 
that we have had, but I think the American public needs to be 
made aware of what is happening on our tribal lands. It is 
happening all across our country, but especially the egregious 
things that are happening on the tribal lands here.
    We did a hearing in southern Arizona, in Cochise County, 
and it was on damage to public lands and illegal immigration. 
And Sheriff Mark Dannels there made a statement where he said 
it is not an immigration problem we have. He said it is an 
organized crime problem. And it got me really thinking a lot 
about, you know, he is right. These are Mexican cartels. And 
they are not just operating along the border in southern 
Arizona, they are in Montana, they are in California. They are 
all across our country. And the cartels have to have a presence 
to be able to cash in on the human trafficking when they are 
basically enslaving people. It is a massive problem that is not 
getting nearly enough attention.
    But Chief Roberge, as you know, the cartels obviously 
present an extreme danger to Indian communities all across 
America. Eradicating the cartels and their fentanyl from Indian 
Country should be a major priority for the FBI and other 
Federal law enforcement. But we know this is not always the 
case. How present is the FBI on the Fort Belknap Reservation, 
and how would you describe your relationship with the FBI Salt 
Lake City Field office, which I believe covers your area?
    Mr. Roberge. Yes, Mr. Westerman. We have a pretty good 
relationship with the FBI of that Salt Lake City field office.
    We are mandated by Federal law. Any felonious type offense, 
I guess I wouldn't say any felonious type offense, it would be 
any serious offense: murder, any unattended death, most drug-
related crimes, we have to call or report it to the FBI.
    Essentially, what happens is, I have my criminal 
investigator here sitting behind me, he will put the case 
together. Kind of in tandem with the FBI, a lot of times he 
hands it over to the FBI. The FBI then does a cross-memo, I 
believe, to submit that to the AUSA, and then they prosecute.
    So, we do have a pretty good working relationship with 
them. But as far as dangerous drugs go, we use the BIA Drug 
Enforcement Division a little bit more because we are getting 
more results out of them. It is hit or miss. They take a 
reactive approach, the FBI I am speaking of, as far as 
proactive.
    Mr. Westerman. And we had a hearing earlier this year, and 
a tribal leader was talking about death threats from the 
cartels. And now you testified that there were four murders in 
3 months in a community of 7,000 people, and directly because 
of drugs coming from the southern border. Would you like to 
elaborate on that?
    Mr. Roberge. I will elaborate, I apologize. The four 
murders weren't a direct cause and effect from drugs being 
trafficked across the southern border. Our rise in violent 
crime and everything else, from what we are seeing, if we track 
data, is caused from dangerous drug trafficking. I mean, we 
haven't seen this type of violent crime in a while. And with 
that, we haven't had a murder in years. And then all of a 
sudden this year, with an uptick in fentanyl and 
methamphetamine, we have four of them.
    Mr. Westerman. Yes. And I used a lot of time there but, Ms. 
Zinn, I found your testimony extremely compelling because you 
have extensive experience working with tribes in Montana. Can 
you describe some instances in which the DEA successfully 
worked with tribes to dismantle cartel distribution networks?
    Ms. Zinn. Oh, absolutely. When I was the head of DEA, that 
is what we worked, was the large drug cartel that we took off 
throughout the state of Montana on the reservations. They were 
coming from Omak, Washington, traveling to Flathead, dropping 
off, going all the way to Great Falls, dropping off in Rocky 
Boy, going up through Havre, dropping off in Fort Belknap, and 
then coming and laying their heads down in Crow Agency.
    When we teamed up with FBI and BIA, we were successful in 
our investigation. It took 8-11 months to actually work. But I 
can actually say the Mexican cartel, the members that we 
arrested, they were all illegals that had come across our 
southwest border. So, the problem that we have is that some of 
them have fled, and we hear the rumors they are back into the 
United States, but they are going to be under a new 
identification, so we are going to be having to retract that 
all over again.
    Mr. Westerman. I was going to ask you to identify any 
existing barriers that complicate DEA's mission to eliminate 
illegal drug distribution and to prosecute drug traffickers. It 
sounds like this new identification may be one of those 
barriers. Are there other ones in Indian Country?
    Ms. Zinn. Oh, absolutely. We need more drug agents in 
Montana. When I was saying we have four enforcement drug agents 
to cover Havre, Bozeman, Ekalaka, and Plentywood, four guys 
can't do it. Cannot do it.
    Mr. Westerman. Again, I am way out of time, but thank you 
all so much for your testimony. And this is something we have 
to follow up on.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Gosar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The gentleman from 
Montana, Mr. Rosendale, is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
    Ms. Zinn, thank you for attending today. Mr. Roberge and 
Mr. Nores, when you start naming the cities, though, Ms. Zinn, 
and you say Havre and Bozeman, these folks have no idea the 
distance that we are talking about that is between those areas, 
which would take about a 2-day trip and many meals to get you 
to all four of those cities.
    Ms. Zinn. Maybe I need to say 4 hours, 5 hours, 3 hours and 
4 hours.
    Mr. Rosendale. Exactly.
    Mr. Roberge, I am going to start with you. There is concern 
regarding cartel associates forming close relationships with 
Indigenous women on the reservations to establish themselves 
within the communities. Is your community taking any steps to 
ensure that your community members don't fall into these traps 
with the cartel members, that they are educated of what is 
going on?
    Mr. Roberge. We try to put some education out there, and 
social media, movies, and TV. People see this all the time. But 
short of violating civil rights, we can't really tell them who 
to be with. They do a pretty good job. I mean, we all look the 
same. They blend in well. It is pretty tough to tell.
    Mr. Rosendale. OK. Have you noticed or experienced any of 
your tribal members protecting cartel members when Federal 
agents do come to investigate?
    And if you do, do you think that is out of fear for 
retribution from the cartels, or is it out of financial 
incentive because they are actually benefiting from having 
these relationships?
    Mr. Roberge. Yes, it is a multitude of reasons, everything 
you just named. The biggest thing would be fear. Everybody 
knows these guys will cut somebody's head off, or hang them 
from an overpass, whatever. Everybody has seen it.
    There is that. There is a financial incentive. And 
everybody that they connect with are addicted to their product. 
So, there is that, as well. A lot of times we won't hear about 
it. They will protect them, and house them, and do their 
bidding, and gone.
    Mr. Rosendale. Ms. Zinn, you were talking about the value 
of the drug on the reservations and how much greater it is than 
it is just even in Billings itself. Why is that? Why is it that 
it jumps from $35 or $38 up to $65, and then all the way over 
by Fort Peck you are $100 for that same pill?
    Ms. Zinn. Distance. In order to transport the drugs, the 
farther you go away from the southwest border the higher the 
markup of the drugs.
    Mr. Rosendale. OK. So, can we come to an agreement with our 
panel here that the open border is increasing the amount of 
drug and criminal activity that we see on these reservations?
    Ms. Zinn. Absolutely.
    Mr. Roberge. A hundred percent.
    Mr. Rosendale. OK. I do appreciate that candor.
    Ms. Zinn, why do you believe that the Bureau of Indian 
Affairs has been so ineffective at protecting these tribes from 
the cartel activities?
    Ms. Zinn. Several reasons. There are not enough of them. 
They need double the amount of agents. They need more tools. 
And, unfortunately, when you have an operation in the area, you 
have only a small portion of drug cops in Montana. If the state 
of Washington is doing an actual operation, all those agents 
are shifted over to travel to the other state, and then they 
are shifted over to another state, then they come back to 
Montana.
    Mr. Rosendale. Let me ask one more thing before I run out 
of time here. I asked Mr. LaCounte the same question on the 
last panel, but I have been to other states where the 
reservations and the tribes had really strong agreements with 
the Federal law enforcement and the local law enforcement so 
that they could actually work together.
    What do you think could be done to strengthen agreements, 
or even get some agreements in place with the tribes in Montana 
to make sure that we can have that collaboration?
    Ms. Zinn. The Tribal Council has to have the MOU in place. 
But because they overturn every 4 years, a lot of times they 
don't honor the MOU that is in place. It is building 
relationships.
    By the time the people start trusting each other, then time 
has passed, and they are elected out of office. That is the 
problem with the local law enforcement, the DCI, and the tribe 
itself. FBI, DEA, and BIA have full range to go on the 
reservations, but we just have a lack of law enforcement.
    Mr. Rosendale. OK. Thank you very much. Thank you all for 
joining us here today.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Dr. Gosar. I thank the gentleman from Montana. The 
gentlewoman from Wyoming is recognized for her 5 minutes.
    Ms. Hageman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    According to the House Budget Committee report, 
international cartels are reaping unprecedented profits from 
human and drug smuggling and trafficking, upwards of $30 
million a day or nearly $1 billion a month. International drug 
cartels have been purposely targeting rural Native American 
reservations, both for the sale of meth and as distribution 
hubs for fentanyl. Indian Country has also borne the brunt of 
the horrific rise in human sex trafficking.
    Even before the recent influx of fentanyl use and 
overdoses, an older DOJ study from 2006 estimated that 40 
percent of violent crimes are attributable to methamphetamine, 
which we know is disproportionately trafficked in and bought 
and sold on Indian reservations. Since then, this problem has 
gotten much worse, not better.
    Chief Roberge, in your testimony you mentioned a report 
that was authored by the National Congress of American Indians 
and sent to Congress in 2006. This report included damning 
information on the rise of violent crime on Indian 
reservations, and essentially predicted the situation we find 
ourselves in today if we didn't do anything back then to 
address it. In your own words you state, ``Since then nothing 
has been done.'' That is a very sad state of affairs.
    Secretary Mayorkas disagrees with you, however, and in 
2023, in a judiciary hearing, he actually stated that our 
approach to managing the border securely and humanely, even 
within our fundamentally broken immigration system, is working. 
Would you agree with Secretary Mayorkas that they have secured 
the border and their approach to the immigration is working? Do 
you agree with him?
    Mr. Roberge. Currently?
    Ms. Hageman. Yes.
    Mr. Roberge. That he has secured the border and his 
approach to immigration is working?
    Ms. Hageman. That is what he testified to before the 
Judiciary Committee.
    Mr. Roberge. No.
    Ms. Hageman. That is not what your experience has been, has 
it?
    Mr. Roberge. Not at all.
    Ms. Hageman. What about you, Ms. Zinn, or you, Mr. Nores, 
do you believe that the current Administration has secured the 
border, and that their approach is working?
    Ms. Zinn. No. Our southern border is wide open, and our 
northern border is wide open.
    Mr. Nores. Absolutely not.
    Ms. Hageman. And many Indian communities have been and will 
continue to be devastated by the overflowing of fentanyl that 
is crossing our border. In my home state of Wyoming, over 
23,700 pills were seized in 2023 alone.
    Ms. Zinn, you have highlighted some of your successful 
operations, including a multi-agency operation where you seized 
tremendous amounts of meth and OxyContin laced with fentanyl. 
Can you explain how, in this particular instance, you were able 
to work effectively across agencies?
    Ms. Zinn. You have to have a leadership in place that is 
willing to do that. You have to have that olive branch and say, 
hey, we can do this together if we work together as a team. It 
is called communicating. And the end goal is to take care of 
the community.
    Ms. Hageman. Do we have that leadership in place with the 
Biden administration?
    Ms. Zinn. At which level?
    Ms. Hageman. Right now.
    Ms. Zinn. I would say in the state of Montana we do have 
that relationship in place.
    Ms. Hageman. We are hearing from other witnesses today that 
these kinds of seizures are very difficult to accomplish, 
however. And as someone working very closely on these issues, 
in your opinion, what tends to cause interagency disputes?
    Ms. Zinn. Territory. Yo tengo mio. I have my case, you have 
your case. This case won't get prosecuted in the U.S. 
Attorney's Office. Maybe it will. All that comes into play.
    Ms. Hageman. Ms. Zinn, in your work you have seen mass 
migration across the southern border, and all three of you just 
stated that the southern border is wide open, and whatever they 
are doing down there is not working, and it is having a 
devastating effect on our reservations.
    We are now looking at unprecedented numbers crossing the 
border every single day. And the announcement that was made by 
President Biden just today in terms of his Executive Order is 
not going to stem that flow. Our colleagues on the other side 
of the aisle are desperate to cover up the real-life 
consequences of the wide-open border that has occurred over the 
last 3 years.
    As someone who has worked on these issues across various 
administrations, Ms. Zinn, is it safe to say that the southern 
border is in the worst shape it has ever been under President 
Biden?
    Ms. Zinn. Absolutely. I have worked on the southern border. 
I know what the border looks like.
    Ms. Hageman. Would you agree, Mr. Nores?
    Mr. Nores. Absolutely.
    Ms. Hageman. And what about you, Chief Roberge?
    Mr. Roberge. Yes.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. With that, I want to thank you three for 
being here. I will echo what Chairman Westerman has stated. We 
have now had a couple of hearings on this particular topic. And 
as the Chairman of the Subcommittee on Indian and Insular 
Affairs, I take this extremely seriously, and it is breaking my 
heart, what we are seeing happening on our reservations.
    I just had the opportunity to question the Attorney General 
of the United States, Merrick Garland, on this very issue. And 
I have demanded that they attempt to do something to address 
the open southern border so that we can provide some relief to 
our tribes and our tribal members. We are going to continue to 
fight this issue because it is so incredibly, critically 
important to our tribal members, to our tribes, and really, to 
the future of our country. So, thank you for being here.
    Dr. Gosar. I thank the gentlewoman. The gentleman from 
Georgia, Mr. Collins, is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know I am going to 
sound like a broken record, but I am a freshman up here, as 
well, and I spent my entire career in the private sector, so I 
have never been elected. And I have been appalled at what we 
have been hearing in these hearings. It is very upsetting.
    And just like the Chairman of the Full Committee said, I 
don't think 99 percent of the American people have a clue, or 
know anything about what is going on in our tribal lands.
    Chief Roberge, you gave out six points that you would like 
to see done when you were giving your opening statement, and I 
would love to hear you expand on them in a written form, if you 
could, just so that I could get a better understanding of 
something. I know you are busy, but I would love to see if you 
have an expanded version of that.
    And I would also like to know, if the border was secure, 
would these still be the six things that the tribal lands need?
    Mr. Roberge. Absolutely, Mr. Collins.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you. And with that, I am going to yield 
back the remainder of my time to the gentlewoman from Wyoming, 
Ms. Hageman.
    Ms. Hageman. Well, thank you, Mr. Collins.
    Picking up where I kind of left off, Chief Roberge, in your 
testimony, you highlighted some of the jurisdictional 
challenges that you face. You also suggested that it is common 
for local law enforcement to run into jurisdictional holes in 
our justice system that make it harder to punish cartel members 
and drug dealers. Has it become more common or less common for 
cartels and drug dealers to take advantage of these various 
loopholes?
    Mr. Roberge. More common. Significantly more. We are 
reaching out to the state or our surrounding counties, I can't 
say the state, for help, and they are arguing that it is the 
FBI's jurisdiction. And I explained the FBI, well, the AUSA, 
won't allow a probable cause arrest right now or a complaint. 
Rather, when they commit an offense, we have to wait for this 
warrant of arrest to be issued before we can place them in 
jail. We don't have that criminal jurisdiction over them.
    We only have criminal jurisdiction over Indians, tribal 
members of a federally recognized tribe. And the county won't 
take them because they are arguing that these guys will commit 
a felonious type offense, not go to jail for it, can't kick him 
off the reservation unless we have an exclusion hearing, which 
that doesn't matter to them, either, and I have some examples 
that I submitted in written testimony of that.
    Ms. Hageman. If you would give some of those examples, and 
I guess what you are saying is they have become incredibly, 
what would I say, sophisticated at understanding our laws, 
these loopholes, these holes, how to exploit them. And 
essentially, they are tying everyone's hands, including, most 
specifically, you, as well as the local law enforcement.
    But the FBI is also one of the problems, it sounds like, in 
terms of being able to provide you with the necessary 
enforcement that you need to ensure that these people are 
actually held criminally accountable.
    Mr. Roberge. I would say the U.S. Attorney.
    Ms. Hageman. From the Department of Justice?
    Mr. Roberge. Yes.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. Could you give us some of the examples 
that you have included in your written testimony?
    Mr. Roberge. Yes. Would you like me to give them now?
    Ms. Hageman. Please.
    Mr. Roberge. Absolutely. Give me 1 second here.
    Ms. Hageman. I believe that you gave an example of a drug 
dealer who was very familiar with the laws and jurisdiction of 
the FBI and tribal law enforcement, that being one of the 
examples.
    Mr. Roberge. Yes, this would be the one example. A few 
weeks ago, we had a non-Indian drug dealer dealing and living 
on our reservation. In the course of the tribal law enforcement 
investigation, this non-Indian drug dealer was found with a 
large amount of methamphetamine. He had a scale, drug 
paraphernalia, and all the precursors for sale or distribution 
of dangerous drugs.
    The reason we had contact with him is he had beaten a 
tribal member, which was a female, with a firearm. He didn't 
shoot her, but he beat her with a firearm. And then this 
individual has a history of committing other drug-related 
crimes.
    The local county was called, as well as the FBI. Due to the 
ongoing criminal behavior of this non-Indian drug dealer, the 
court issued a preliminary order to exclude him from our 
reservation, as per the Fort Belknap Indian Community's 
Constitution. The non-Indian drug dealer violated this within 
the week of the issuance of this order.
    So, prior to this exclusion order being issued, the county 
refused to take him. And he just beat a woman, left her for 
dead out in a rural area. She thought he was going to kill her. 
Nobody took him to jail. We didn't have jurisdiction over him, 
and we violated civil rights if we did anything about it.
    That brings me to the point of we need legislative action, 
and a simple fix would be to overturn the Oliphant decision and 
give us criminal jurisdiction.
    Ms. Hageman. That is one of the solutions right there.
    Mr. Roberge. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. I very much appreciate that. That is a 
good example to give.
    I am out of time. Again, I want to thank you for being 
here, and your bravery, and being willing to work with us to 
try to find a fix and some solutions to these horrific problems 
that we are facing. Thank you.
    Dr. Gosar. I thank the gentlewoman from Wyoming. The 
gentlewoman from New Mexico, Ms. Stansbury, the Ranking Member, 
is recognized.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
traveling to be here with us today.
    Mr. Roberge, did I pronounce your name correctly?
    Mr. Roberge. You are the only one, yes.
    Ms. Stansbury. Oh, good. Excellent.
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Stansbury. Let me, first of all, just say thank you for 
your service two times, both to our nation and to the tribe. We 
appreciate your service. I want to follow up on some of the 
recommendations that you made. I found them extremely helpful.
    You mentioned that your current agency is funded at around 
$1.5 million, and that funding really is a limiting factor. And 
I think it is relevant to this conversation. I think you may 
have seen the first panel and some of the Members are saying, 
well, what would you do if you had more money? So, please tell 
us, Chief, what would you do if you had more money?
    Mr. Roberge. Oh my gosh, that would be a game-changer. 
Excuse my lack of better terms, that would be life-changing for 
our department and our community.
    Right now, we are scraping the bottom of the barrel with 
$1.2, maybe $1.3 million since 1997, with no account to 
inflation or anything else. If I am going to keep wages at a 
competitive standard to recruit and retain officers, can't buy 
equipment, can't pay for training, I mean, can't do any of 
that. Even if we increased it by several hundred thousand, a 
few hundred thousand, it would potentially change the lives of 
people in that community, having a greater law enforcement 
presence out there, having better equipment, community 
policing, community policing events, restoring trust in the 
community of law enforcement. It would be monumental.
    Ms. Stansbury. So, it sounds like Fort Belknap is a 
contract. So, you guys 638 for your funding?
    Mr. Roberge. Yes.
    Ms. Stansbury. So, the funding that you all would contract 
for would include increasing funding for salaries, recruitment, 
retention, hiring more officers. I am going to assume more 
vehicles, law enforcement, crime equipment, technology, et 
cetera. That is the kind of things you guys would use it for?
    Mr. Roberge. Yes, positions. We need boots on the ground. 
We need men or women that are going to stand ready to commit 
acts to protect and serve their community.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you.
    Mr. Roberge. That is what we need.
    Ms. Stansbury. And I will just say that we hear this from 
every single tribe across the country. I mean, it is literally 
the thing that we hear. So, I do urge my colleagues to 
understand that this is really a funding issue, that if tribes 
had the capacity to hire more folks, if they had the capacity 
to take on more technology, it would be a game-changer for a 
lot of our communities.
    The other piece I wanted to dig in a little bit on, and 
again, I think it is a resources issue, I am really grateful 
that you brought up U.S. attorney coordination and prosecution 
because this is another issue that we hear in multiple 
jurisdictions. And I was actually just home in New Mexico this 
week, which is the state that I represent, and we also have a 
severe shortage within the Federal Government, within the 
Department of Justice of U.S. attorneys, especially in certain 
regions.
    And I think your testimony really spoke to the reality that 
the number of prosecutions that you are seeing is both a 
jurisdictional issue, but also it is a bandwidth issue, because 
these U.S. attorneys are also prosecuting all Federal crimes, 
not just crimes that involve tribal lands.
    Mr. Roberge. Yes.
    Ms. Stansbury. So, I wonder if you could just speak to that 
in the region that you all coordinate with the U.S. attorney 
and DOJ. Do you see it as a lack of available attorneys to be 
able to prosecute the cases?
    Mr. Roberge. Yes, ma'am. I believe they are completely 
overwhelmed. Two attorneys to seven Indian reservations in 
Montana with, I mean, I gave examples of the scope of our crime 
rate, and kind of what is on the table there for them. And 
imagine that with their plate too full. They need help.
    Ms. Stansbury. Yes.
    Mr. Roberge. They do.
    Ms. Stansbury. Well, I appreciate that. And I did want to 
just make sure we flagged that today because I think it is 
important to understand that those resources do sit not in BIA, 
but at the Department of Justice, and that that is in the 
direct line of duty under DOJ, and that they are an important 
component of being able to help address tribal needs.
    And then finally, I do want to just make a comment to 
address to the Committee. Today is primary day in New Mexico. 
So, happy Election Day. But it is also in Montana. And I 
thought it was a bit odd that we were having a witness join us 
who is running for office. And using official resources here in 
the Committee today to promote a candidate, I do not feel is an 
appropriate use of official resources. So, I did want to just 
address that, Mr. Chairman. And I do appreciate the expertise 
that was brought here today, but we do need to be cognizant 
that we are not to use taxpayer dollars for unofficial 
purposes. Thank you.
    Dr. Gosar. Thank you.
    Mr. Nores, you have had a lot of experience within our 
national forests, and the growing of cannabis throughout, and 
the use of toxic chemicals. How much more decimated does the 
landscape become on these tribal entities?
    Mr. Nores. Well, with tribal lands in general, Congressman, 
it is more severe simply because our tribal police officers are 
so limited. When we work with, say, the Hoopa, as I gave 
examples, and also the Yurok Tribes, we were going into 
historical grow sites that had been there 10 years.
    When we would attack a grow site that we would find in 
other public land or, say, a private ranch, we have our entire 
MET team, we have the sheriff's office at our disposal, we have 
Federal agents from DEA, from FBI. We can rally the troops. But 
our tribal partners with that division, not being able to get 
the local, Federal, and state help they need to on their lands, 
leave a lot of those sites untampered. They just can't get to 
them.
    So, when we did collaborate, we were finding historical 
grows that went back, like I said, a decade. So, instead of 
removing those poisons on the day of the raid, eradicating 
those toxically tainted plants that are slated for the black 
market and poisoning consumers for cannabis, let's say, now 
those poisons are out there for multiple years before they are 
cleaned up. Usually, we will reclimate a grow site the day we 
raid it because of the lasting, egregious environmental effects 
on the waterways, on the wildlife, drinking water sources for 
our tribal partners and their communities. But some of that 
just goes continual what we call cumulative effects because 
they just don't have the resources.
    So, I consider it far more severe, damaging, what these 
cartels are doing to our forests on tribal lands than in 
general what we can attack outside of those districts.
    Dr. Gosar. They are smuggling in known poisons, I would 
say, into and onto these public lands and into tribal areas. Is 
that true?
    Mr. Nores. Yes, Congressman, they are. And these are 
poisons that were basically developed, some of the neurotoxins 
were literally in some of the Nazi chemical weapons they 
developed in World War II. They are very effective 
rodenticides, insecticides like carbofuran, metaphos, Furadan, 
all those trade names I mentioned. Yet, EPA, 20 or 30 years 
ago, got their study data together to realize they were too 
toxic for us to use in America on our crops. And one 12-ounce 
canister of this crystalline substance, one of these poisons, 
is made to be diluted with 5,000 to 6,000 gallons of water, 
then put on crops to keep everything off of them.
    Well, these growers, the Chinese cartels are doing this, 
and indoor grows like we talked about in last testimony, and 
the Chinese are bringing their own highly toxic insecticides 
and rodenticides that are sometimes even more deadly than the 
Mexican importation of the substances I just mentioned. But we 
can't use them in this country, but they are available in 
Tijuana. They are sold in other parts of the of the world, 
primarily third-world countries. And they are very effective at 
keeping anything off of that cash crop or, in the case of 
indoor grows, more cannabis, as well.
    Dr. Gosar. Do you find the cartels more aggressive on 
tribal lands?
    Mr. Nores. Absolutely, simply because they know the 
likelihood of getting any type of arrest or even being 
contacted, again, because our tribal partners are dealing with, 
as my partner said today up here, so many other crimes, public 
safety crimes, domestic violence, murders, missing people, 
human trafficking, the cartels like to target areas like that 
because they may not be contacted at all. And if they are, they 
are not going to have as big of a team, they are not going to 
have as many threats to being apprehended and/or arrested and 
prosecuted.
    So, absolutely, that is what we have seen in California as 
one example. And as we are seeing in my new home state of 
Montana on the fentanyl crisis, human trafficking crisis, as my 
colleagues have testified today, as well.
    Dr. Gosar. Got you. Now, I am going to ask this question of 
all three of you. Hopefully, I can ask it pretty quick, what 
would be your idea, and I know you brought up about some money, 
but creatively, so I am looking at the military experience. You 
have these SEAL teams, you have these Ranger teams that are 
hotshots. You fly them in. And could that be an option, 
something like that, where you are bringing in hotshot law 
enforcement, and you are bringing an attorney with them, a 
couple attorneys or whatever? Do you think that could work?
    Or, you know, it would definitely kind of throw things off 
the ball. But Chief Roberge, what do you think? Or is there 
something in your mind you see differently?
    Mr. Roberge. Yes, Chairman Gosar. I don't believe dropping 
an operational detachment alpha into our area and having them 
infiltrate would suffice at this point. We are kind of seeing 
them come in, do their operation, and then go out. Very rarely 
nowadays do we have them actually establishing that foothold in 
Fort Belknap. They are in Crow and other reservations like 
that.
    I think if they were infiltrated, and I don't want to give 
up a covert-type operation like that over the public or media, 
but if they were infiltrated with one of their own, that is the 
only way we are going to take them down. I don't know if we 
will ever really take them down, but we could put a cap on 
them. That is how we are going to do it, is infiltration.
    Ms. Zinn. That would work for our places like Billings and 
Bozeman because we have cartels there. So, you can do that type 
of operation in that type of city. But on the reservations, he 
is correct. They are touch and go, except for my last case, 
they were actually more overt and trying to grow roots in the 
Crow Reservation.
    But DEA has done those types of operations, and it is hit 
and miss. What you do need is more permanent boots on the 
ground for all the three little alphabet soup that is going to 
be there permanently so they know the players and they know 
when and where and how.
    Dr. Gosar. John?
    Mr. Nores. I agree, we need more boots on the ground that 
are staying in place. We noticed that when we formed up the 
Marijuana Enforcement Team. We had had so many officer-involved 
shootings, so many near-death experiences as officers. When we 
dedicated a unit of 12 special operators as game wardens, and 
we could stay dedicated to just that fight throughout the whole 
state of California, now we are making a much bigger dent. We 
were going home safe, first and foremost, but we were 
documenting the damages.
    We need that type of presence, like my partners just said, 
embedded throughout Montana and really any other state having 
this problem. We know it is border to border, left, right, 
east, west, north, south. But with that, I think we need the 
counseling, the education, educating our children on the 
fentanyl crisis, what to detect, human trafficking, target 
indicators because these polycriminals are dealing in so many 
crimes that threaten every American from one threat or another, 
whether it is fentanyl, whether it is tainted cannabis, human 
trafficking on tribal lands and beyond. It is the No. 1 
national priority I think we need to deal with administratively 
from all levels, but especially keeping enough enforcement 
embedded in all of our states to have a real presence and have 
an actual deterrence on these cartels and the evil they 
present.
    Dr. Gosar. This also shows that Canada is not all the 
friendlies that we think they are.
    Mr. Nores. Correct.
    Dr. Gosar. I thank the witnesses for their valuable 
testimony and the Members for their questions. The members of 
the Committee may have additional questions for the witnesses, 
and we will ask you to respond to these in writing. Under 
Committee Rule 3, members of the Committee must submit 
questions to the Subcommittee Clerk by 5 p.m. on June 7. The 
hearing record will be held open for 10 business days for these 
responses.
    If there is no further business, without objection, the 
Subcommittee stands adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 3:55 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

            [ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD]

Submission for the Record by Rep. Gosar

                        Statement for the Record
                            Frank Star Comes
                  President of the Oglala Sioux Tribe

    My name is Frank Star Comes Out, and I am the President of the 
Oglala Sioux Tribe (OST). The OST home, the Pine Ridge Reservation, is 
the third-largest reservation in the United States, stretching over 3.1 
million acres, similar to the State of Connecticut. As of February 14, 
2023, the Tribe has an enrolled membership of 51,460, an on-reservation 
law enforcement service population of more than 40,000, and 52 separate 
residential communities.
    I am a former Marine, so forgive me, but my comments tend to be 
rather blunt. The time for politically correct statements has long 
since passed. I have human beings who are being killed and seriously 
hurt, and as the duly elected leader of the Tribe and a former military 
officer, I take that very seriously. So, for me, this is not just about 
a federal program; it's about American citizens. For this reason, I 
would like to focus my testimony on the impact that twenty-five years 
of federal neglect, coupled with the influx of illegal drugs and the 
violence that comes with them, have had on my community.
    In FY 2021, we had around 138,000 calls for police service and only 
33 officers to respond to those calls over an area spanning 3.1 million 
acres, which is larger than the states of Delaware and Rhode Island 
combined. That was around 5-7 officers per shift, covering 24 hours a 
day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, because we have exclusive federal/
tribal criminal jurisdiction over our Pine Ridge Indian Reservation.
    Things have only gotten worse since then. For example, in FY2023, 
we had over 165,799 calls for police service, and we had only 30 patrol 
officers. Along with other crimes, these calls reported 1133 assaults, 
449 cases of child abuse, 1,245 cases of domestic violence, 589 gun-
involved crimes, and 343 cases of the most serious drugs. Just between 
October 1, 2022, and February 2023, we have had 8 homicides, 8 violent 
rapes, and another 299 serious cases of child abuse. Now I ask you, how 
would you deploy those 3-5 officers per shift to cover the area I just 
described, especially under those circumstances?
    Due to our extreme shortage of officers, our average response time 
is and has been, between 30 minutes and an hour. Not to mention, our 
officers continue to work alone, with backup being around 30 minutes 
away, even when the alleged perpetrator has a loaded weapon. To quote 
my Chief of Police, ``30 minutes is a long time when you are alone and 
facing a group of well-armed criminals who are trying to kill you.'' 
Our tribal officers' experiences are consistent with Director 
LaCounte's testimony; they are often alone, outmanned, and outgunned.
    Mr. Chairman, to answer one of your questions, we already have a 
good working relationship with the FBI, but the reality is that they 
are over 90 miles away, and they openly admit that they are not 
organized to be first responders.
    Further, to answer your question about more US Attorneys, 
additional US Attorneys will help with federal criminal prosecutions. 
But please remember that in order to bring a successful criminal 
prosecution in federal court, you also need federally acceptable 
evidence and the ability to fully investigate a crime. Experience has 
taught us that this generally does not happen when the police response 
is 30 minutes or longer like ours is: witnesses have left the scene, 
the victims have been transported, and the perpetrators are long gone.
    Many well-intended people regularly suggest more protective orders 
and banishments, and I fully support the theory behind both. 
Unfortunately, without the practical police power to enforce those 
orders, it is like asking a group of armed bank robbers to please leave 
the bank. It is not likely to happen.
    I am also aware of this Subcommittee's discussions about 
jurisdictional issues, and I, and the other Great Plains Tribes, 
strongly support legislation to return full criminal jurisdiction to 
our local tribal police by fixing the Oliphant Decision. I also 
supported the recently enacted VAWA, child protection, and domestic 
violence legislation, which increased tribal jurisdiction. However, 
without the federally backed funding to implement them, for us, these 
additional authorizations are merely unfunded mandates.
    Finally, when you think about law enforcement jurisdiction 
challenges, I would like to make three important points: First, I defy 
anyone in this room to tell by a person's voice, or many times even by 
their appearance, if they are or are not Indian. Second, the FBI, DEA, 
or Homeland Security cannot travel the 90 miles from their headquarters 
in Rapid City, South Dakota, to Pine Ridge in less than an hour, no 
matter what they are driving. Third, as Mr. LaCounte pointed out, 
Congress thinks that jurisdictional complexities are implemented before 
an investigation, but that is not true; they come after an assault or 
weapon-related attack, not before. Tribal law enforcement does not ask 
a victim if they are a tribal member before responding to a crime; they 
act. It is that simple.
    Finally, Congress and the Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) have 
already attempted a strike force approach to resolving this problem, 
but while it sounds good, I ask you to please look at the actual data 
collected at the Standing Rock Reservation a few years ago. Congress 
sent in a large group of well-trained officers, and crime went down. 
Then the money ran out, and they left, and crime went right back up 
again. Drug dealers are not stupid; they know how to wait out a strike 
force. It is like putting a band-aid on a cancer lesion; it may feel 
better temporarily, but it is not a solution.
    Many members of this Committee, specifically Congressman Bentz, 
have discouraged tribal leaders from requesting more resources because 
you may think boots on the ground will not solve the problem or a 
problem with turnover. At Oglala, several officers have served in our 
tribal law enforcement services for over 20 years. It is important to 
emphasize that the cheapest part of a tribal law enforcement program is 
officer salaries. It is federally mandated equipment, gas, insurance, 
vehicles, and vehicle maintenance, which costs around $175,000 per 
officer/year at government procurement rates that must be acknowledged 
and covered. Believe me, our officers are not overpaid. Most make 
between $60,000-$70,000 a year, working 60 hours a week in extremely 
dangerous conditions with virtually useless benefits.
    Last year, we presented the House Appropriations Subcommittee with 
our federally mandated law enforcement equipment list and the prices we 
faced. Nothing on that list is not a critical law enforcement item 
(car, gas, vest, gun, handcuffs, etc.). The OMB and Congress set these 
prices, competitive bid processes, and mandates, so we cannot do 
anything about them. Under your rules, we must buy from the public 
market, just like the other federal agencies do. Believe me, we stretch 
every penny. So, we either pay or go without gasoline, police car 
repairs and upkeep, and federally required insurance. I certainly 
cannot send an officer 40 miles on a bicycle. So, when you talk about 
not increasing resources, please consider that we do not drive our 
associated costs; OMB and congressional mandates do.
    In the mid-1980s, the federal government provided enough resources 
to the Oglala Sioux Tribe to employ 130 officers before cartels, 
opioids, and fentanyl; we are now down to 30. So, how many resources do 
you want to underfund? So, when you ask how much the Tribe received 
from that $700M law enforcement increase you referenced last year, my 
answer is simple. After the BIA and the private sector took their cut 
and inflation kicked in, it was just barely enough to keep going at the 
current level and a little more.
    Our officers can easily drive around 30,000 miles a month. That is 
over double what an average driver adds to their odometer in a year. To 
understand our situation, please consider what you paid for a new car 
20 years ago and what you would have to pay for that same car today. 
That is our very practical problem.
    If you look at the BIA's annual reports to your Subcommittee, you 
will see its admission that we are funded at 15% of actual need. That 
is fifteen (15%), not 50%. That is why we ask for a budget correction 
to bring us up to par with what we had 25 years ago. When Director 
Lacounte said that BIA is at the bottom of the pecking order of federal 
law enforcement services, I 100% agree. It is time for Congress to put 
its wallet where its mouth is and commit to funding public safety and 
law enforcement services in Indian Country.

How did tribal law enforcement become so underfunded?

    In the late 1990s, this Congress, in fact, this Committee, passed 
the first Indian Law Enforcement statute. That statute mandated the 
creation of the BIA Office of Justice Service (OJS) and afforded it 
certain mandatory responsibilities. Other federal laws have been added 
to this mandate. Those responsibilities were not, and are not 
discretionary; they are established by existing federal law.
    Unfortunately, when these mandates were established, neither 
Congress nor any Administration calculated what these additional 
mandates would cost to fulfill. One mandate in particular, the federal 
mandate of 2.8 officers per 1,000 service population necessary to 
fulfill the essential governmental function, was never calculated. 
Instead, the BIA created the OJS with just the money it was spending in 
1999, ignoring the fact that most larger tribes, like ours, were 
receiving 70% of law enforcement funding from grants provided by the 
Department of Justice (DOJ).
    When those DOJ grants expired after OJS was created, Congress never 
replaced that funding to BIA to fulfill the now underfunded law 
enforcement programs for tribes. The result is that we lost 70% of our 
funding in the three years that it took to sunset those grants. After 
that, inflation took over, and OST law enforcement went from the 130 
federally funded officers it had at the end of the 1990s to the 30 
patrol officers it has today. Nothing will change unless and until 
Congress fixes that base funding and supplements the funding formerly 
provided to tribes by the DOJ to BIA. We know a budget correction can 
probably not be done in the next year, but without it, you will 
continue to see a rise in crime because of the lack of officers on the 
ground.
    As to federal strike forces, the Standing Rock Tribe strike force 
and the US military have both demonstrated that more enforcement leads 
to less crime. Passing more unfunded mandates will not have that same 
impact at Pine Ridge. I, for one, am tired of hearing federal witnesses 
testifying at your hearings about how seriously they take their treaty 
and trust responsibility to keep us safe. I ask you if what I described 
about my reservation--the amount of police calls; the amount of crime--
is this a safe community for any American.
    I will close by saying this. This House will make up the FY 2025 
budget in less than 60 days, so the ball is in your court. I 
respectfully ask you to please raise that base budget from 15% 
currently funded to at least 50% of the $3.2 billion needed. While more 
hearings and better planning are important, my people are being injured 
and killed today, and quite honestly, we need to address what is 
already on the ground. As was evidenced by our brother tribes in 
Montana, both Democratic and Republican Administrations have studied 
this issue to death; now, we need Congress to fully fund tribal law 
enforcement programs.

    Thank you, Wopila.

                                 [all]`