BEFORE THE UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

WASHINGTON, D.C.

In the Matter of: ENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC., Respondent. Docket No. FAA-2013-0848 Case No. 2012EA5008

3rd Floor Courtroom C Edward N. Cahn, U.S. Courthouse 504 Hamilton Street Allentown, PA Tuesday, March lOth, 2015 1

The above-entitledmatter came on for hearing, pursuant to notice, at 9:00 a.m. BEFORE: THE HONORABLE J. E. SULLIVAN U.S. Administrative Law Judge 

# RECE\\JE

(202) 234-4433 

### MAR 312015 

### HEARING OOCKE." 

## ORIGINAL NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE ,N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comAPPEARANCES:
On Behalf of the Respondent, Endless Mountains Air,

**Inc~** WILLIAM J. DOBITSCH, JR. PRO SE 727 Windsock Lane Factoryville, PA 18419 Fax: (570) 945-5953

On Behalf of the Complaint, Federal Aviation Administration ZACHARY M. BERMAN, ESQ. of: Federal Aviation Administration Office of Regional Counsel Eastern Region. 1 Aviation Plaza Jamaica, NY 11434 (718) 995-5699

NEAL R. GROSS 2

(202) 234-4433 COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comCONTENTS Complainant's Opening Statement: E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S Exhibit No. C-2 Form 8410-3, 7-22-10 C-3 Form 8410-3, 7-7-10 C-8 Form 8410-3, 4-18-11 C-9 Form 8410-3, 2-11-11 C-4 Letter of Investigation, 1-4-12 C-5 Dobitsch Letter of Response C-7 FAA Order 20150.3B, 6 pgs. 3

. 22
Mark Reed 41 42 48 52 54 55 60 "FAA Safety Briefing" D Magazine Excerpt, E F G 7-11-12 W-2 Tax W-2 Tax W-2 Tax Year Year Year 2012 2013 2014

WITNESSES 145 160 161 162
NAME DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS HARRY SOUDAS ROBERT FERENCE RANDY PALMER 26 85 99 65 87 108 WILLIAM DOBITSCH 128 165 Complainant's Closing Argument: Respondent's Closing Argument:

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WNW.nealrgross.com4 1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 8:56a.m. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We are on the record 4 in the matter of Endless Mountains Air, Inc. 5 This is docket number FAA-2013-0848. Today is 6 Tuesday, March lOth, 2015. 7 And the parties have convened ln 8 Allentown, Pennsylvania for a hearing in this 9 matter. 10 So what I'm going to do, is I'm going 11 to start off with introductions. I will ask the 12 FAA to introduce itself, and its witnesses, 13 first. 14 I will then turn to Endless Mountains 15 Air, Inc. and ask them to do the same thing. And 16 then we will talk a little bit, about why we are 17 here, and the amount of time we are going to take 18 to address the issues that are still in dispute, 19 before we put anybody on the stand. 20 And I'm going to switch over here. I 21 spilled a little water, so I'm just going to 22 clean it up.

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1 And who is representing the FAA? 2 MR. BERMAN: Good morning Judge. The 3 Agency, FAA, is representedby Zachary Berman, of 4 the Office of the Regional Counsel, Eastern 

### s Region. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And is that, you, Mr. 7 Berman? 8 MR. BERMAN: Excuse me? 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Are you Mr. Berman? 10 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Hello, Mr. Berman. 12 We talked on the phone many times. 13 MR. BERMAN: Hello. Nice to meet you. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And who do you have 15 on your side? 16 THE WITNESS: I have with me Harry 17 Soudas, who is going to be the Agency's primary 18 witness. And also he is sitting here to assist 19 me in technical matters. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and before you 21 go on, Madam Court Reporter, do you have the 22 spelling already? Okay, thank you.

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WNw.nealrgross.com6 1 Mr. Berman, go ahead. 2 MR. BERMAN: Then I also have Bob 3 Ference as a witness. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and I see Mr. 5 Ference lS standing up behind you, thank you. 6 Anything, anyone else in the courtroom 7 you want to identify, Mr. Berman? 8 MR. BERMAN: We have another inspector 9 who is here just for observation. I don't know 10 if it

-- 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you would be so 12 kind, that would be delightful. 13 MR. BERMAN: I don't know the full 14 name. It is Joe Brown. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Brown as ln the color 16 Brown? 17 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, all right, 19 thank you all. 20 Mr. Dobitsch? 21 22 Honor.

(202) 234·4433 MR. DOBITSCH: Good morning, Your

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE, N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 wvvw.nealrgross.com7 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Good morning. 2 MR. DOBITSCH: I'm William Dobitsch, 3 the President of Endless Mountains Air, carrier 4 operator, and this is my pilot, Randy
-- 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And accordingto your 6 witness list, you both are going to testify at 7 some point? 8 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I think I was 9 planning on doing a narrative. I think we had 10 spoken, in one of our phone calls, you said that 11 was an option. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Sure. 13 MR. DOBITSCH: That I could do. And 14 then Mr. Palmer, I will ask him some questions. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, that would be 16 fine, thank you. 17 MR. DOBITSCH: Thank you. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let's go to 19 our next stage of just discussion. As I looked 20 at the case, and the materials, before coming on 21 the bench, it appeared to me that there have been 22 at least

(202) 234-4433 two distinct times,
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www.nealrgross.com8 

### 1 preliminary matters, that have been addressed, 2 throughout the proceeding, where the Respondent 3 has, basically, agreed that the violations, as 4 

### alleged, have been committed. 5 

### But that there is explanation for 6 

### those violations. And I see Mr. Dobitsch, you 7 

### are nodding your head. 8 

### So in terms of explanation that, 9 typically, then becomes part of the defense to 10 the alleged proposed penalty that the FAA is 11 bringing to the Court. 12 So I want to just double check, with 13 both of you, as to the posture of the case at 14 

### this point. Because it seemed, to me, as I look 15 through all of the materials, that what we are 16 here for is a dispute about the proposed civil 17 penalty, at this point. 18 

### With defenses being raised by the 19 Respondent, to the general effect of, that the 20 violations alleged, and agreed to, were technical 21 in nature, not intentional. 22

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### Or, in other words, inadvertent. That
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com9 1 the violations, when committed, did not 2 compromise passenger or flight safety, and that 3 the Respondent couldn't afford, or can't afford 4 the alleged proposed fine. 5 Now, there may be some other defenses 6 that are going to be raised regarding the 7 proposed violation. 8 But I just wanted to check in with 9 you, first Mr. Dobitsch, if that is the posture 10 of the Respondent's defense. Is that, generally, 11 why you are here today? 12 MR. DOBITSCH: That is correct, Your 13 Honor. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And staying 15 with you Mr. Dobitsch, for a moment, in the 16 original materials that you had filed ln your 17 Answer, which was filed on April 13, 2014, you 18 talk a little bit on page 2 of that Answer, which 19 totaled four pages. 20 On page 2, at the bottom of the page, 21 you talked about a June 21, 2012 conference that 22 you had with Mr. Berman, or someone from his

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1 office. 2 Providir:g, Mr. Berman, with federal 3 tax returns, and other financial information, 4 that you thought supported your assertion that 5 you could not afford the fine. That the company 6 could not afford the fine. 7 Do you recall that portion of your 8 Answer? 9 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I do. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is it your intent, 11 today, to continue to raise the issue of 12 financial distress? 13 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, it is. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. In looking at 15 your witness list, and exhibits, I noted that you 16 have a proposal of four different exhibits, 17 identified as Respondent's A through D, as in 18 David. 19 None of those exhibits involve 20 finances. Was there a reason why you chose not 21 to file anything? Because I don't work for the 22 FAA, I don't have any access, or knowledge, of

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### 1 the FAA's file, or the material that you gave, 2 privately, to the FAA. 3 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, the reason I 4 haven't, I really haven't been able to provide 5 any financial-- going back, I have not completed 6 

### my 2012, '13, or '14 tax returns. 7 

### I actually owe my accountant, Ted 8 

### Johnson, of Colley, Johnson 

### & Sanders, in excess 9 

### of 15,000 dollars. 10 I have been pecking away at that for 11 the past couple of years. I just recently, over 12 the past month, cleaned the slate. 13 

### So we are squared away, and we are 14 going to work on our 2012 tax returns, as soon as 15 tax season is over, on April 15th. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 17 

### MR. DOBITSCH: So, unfortunately, I 18 

### really don't have, I wish I did, I would 19 certainly

-- it would certainly help my case. 20 But, unfortunately, I just don't have 21 anything right now. 22

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### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I wanted to
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1 raise that with you now, because I don't want you 2 to be disappointed about the quality of your 3 defense by not knowing this. 4 But, essentially, you coming on the 5 stand, or someone else coming on the stand, and 6 saying you can't afford it, generally, it is 7 perceived as not enough evidence. 8 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That doesn't mean you 10 can't say it, you are welcome to say that, and 11 anything else you would like to say. 12 But the Court cannot find that to be 13 compelling absence some substantive material 14 evidence in support of it. 15 So let's talk with you, Mr. Berman, 16 for a moment. You have, in your witness list, 17 identifiedtwo different people, as you have this 18 morning, with exhibits identified as C-1 through 19 C-7. 20 Since there appears to be no dispute, 21 by the Respondent, that the alleged 12 violations 22 occurred, that being two violations for six

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1 different flights, dating from September 23rd, 2 2011' through October 9' 2011, and the 3 regulations allegedbeing 14 CFR Section 135.293, 4 subsection A, and 14 CFR Section 135.299, 5 subsection A. 6 That would leadus to jump right into 7 the civil penaltyportion, I would think, at this 8 point. Was that your intent, as well? 9 MR. BERMAN: Partly. Some of these 10 documents that I won't need to offer. For 11 example, the offenses of the six flights are just 12 not in dispute. 13 But I would like to elicit them, from 14 Mr. Soudas, about the exact particular 15 examinations that were taken and were not taken, 16 to put into context the

-- that that would shed 17 light on the nature of the violations, could 18 affect the sanctions. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And would there be 20 any reason why you couldn't put that evidence 21 into the record, after you explained the actual 22 proposed penalty, as opposed to going first?

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1 Because I don't want the parties to 2 get sidetracked into things that are already 3 agreed to. And what makes the most sense, to me, 4 and I'm certainly flexible about this, is for you 5 to present your first witness, to talk about the 6 actual penalty, and how it was calculated. 7 And then we can talk about the 8 rationale that goes into that. Unless that 9 throws off your entire plan. Does that throw you 10 off a little bit? 11 MR. BERMAN: It does. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, then, I 13 will leave it to you to present your case the way 14 you see fit. 15 Do you have any preliminary motions 16 that you would like to make, before we start 17 testimony? Or do you wish to make an opening? 18 MR. BERMAN: Well, one preliminary 19 matter. I spoke to Mr. Dobitsch this morning and 20 asked him if he has any objections to this. 21 And he said he does not have any 22 objections. And what I'm proposing to do is to

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### 15
1 

### ask your approval, Your Honor, to amend paragraph 2 4 of II of the complaint, paragraph 4. 3 

### Which states, currently, during each 4 

### of the**above~referenced** 

### flights, Mr. Palmer had 5 

### not, since the beginning of the 12th calendar 6 

### month, before the flight, passed a flight check 7 

### in a Cirrus SR20 aircraft. 8 

### What I'd like to do lS 

### to add the 9 

### following words. Add a comma after the word 10 

### aircraft, and then as requiredby Section 135299A 11 

### of the FARS. 12 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Please repeat that. 13 

### MR. BERMAN: I'd like to amend 14 paragraph 4 to add the following words at the 15 end. Substitute a comma for a period, after the 16 word aircraft. 17 And then add the words, as required by 18 Section 135.299A of the FARS, of the FARS. 19 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Dobitsch, do 20 you have any objection to that proposal? 21 

### 22

(202) 234-4433 

### MR. DOBITSCH: No objection. JUDGE SULLIVAN: There being no
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1 objection the motion is granted, and the 2 complaint, that was previously filed, ln this 3 matter, on December 17th, 2013, is so amended, as 4 requested by the FAA. 5 Mr. Berman, do you have any other 6 preliminary matters you would like to take up? 7 MR. BERMAN: Yes. Mr. Dobitsch 8 previouslydid not admit, I believe, to paragraph 9 4. And I'd like to know if he admits or denies 10 that paragraph, with the amendment. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, let me take a 12 look at his Answer first. 13 (Pause.) 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, since 15 the complaint has just been amended, to add that 16 new language, you have a right to answer, for the 17 first time, that portion of the amended 18 complaint. 19 Do you have an answer? Do you agree 20 that your company had violated the complaint, as 21 amended? Do you disagree? 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I would have to
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com17 1 agree with that, yes. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: There being an 3 agreement, I will note that it appears that the 4 posture of the case has not changed substantially 5 from a few moments ago. 6 That we are basically in a position 7 where the Respondent has agreed to the commission 8 of the violations, as alleged, by the amended 9 complaint. 10 And that the major issue, in dispute, 11 lS the proposed civil penalty. 12 Mr. Berman, does that assist you in 13 your preliminary matters? 14 MR. BERMAN: Yes, it does. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let's talk, then, 16 about openings, closing, lunch breaks, that kind 17 of thing. 18 Mr. Berman, do you have an interest in 19 making either an opening and/or closing argument? 20 MR. BERMAN: Yes, just
-- the opening 21 will be brief, and I'm sure the closing will also 22 be brief.

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1 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Do you have 2 any particular preference in terms of morning 3 recesses, afternoon recesses and/or a lunch 4 

### break? 5 

### MR. BERMAN: Well, I think that we 6 

### should be able

-- if it was up to me I would like 7 

### to just go through the hearing, and minimize the 8 

### breaks. That is my personal preference. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. Mr. 10 

### Dobitsch, I'm going to ask you the same 11 

### questions. Do you have any interest in doing an 12 

### opening and/or a closing argument? 13 

### And if you don't understand 14 

### terminology, that I use, just stop me and ask me, 15 

### because I can explain it. 16 

### MR. DOBITSCH: I 

### guess that, 17 basically, means a little something to say at the 18 beginning, and something to say at the end, just 19 to recap? 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Right. An opening, 21 

### basically, is a short statement of what you 22 intend to prove.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com19 1 A closing statement is, generally, a 2 short statement of what you have proved, and what 3 the other side has not. 4 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So it lS a way of, 6 kind of, persuading the trier of fact to your 7 position. So you can make an opening, or not. 8 You can make a closing, or not, it is up to you. 9 Some people do, some people don't. You 10 can listen, Mr. Berman is going to go first, 11 because he is the Plaintiff and you can see if it 12 is something you want to do, or not do, as you 13 listen. 14 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So ln terms of 16 breaks, and lunch, do you have a preference, Mr. 17 Dobitsch? 18 MR. DOBITSCH: No preference. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I will tell you the 20 Court's preference. The Court's preference is 21 always to take a break in the morning, and then 22 in the afternoon, and also at lunch time.

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1 I find that there is, always, at least 2 one person, including the Court, that truly 3 appreciates the opportunity to take a short 4 recess. And we will make them fairly short, to 5 honor the parties' interests and efficiency. 6 So let me ask you one final question. 7 Have the parties had a chance to talk about the 8 exhibits, are there any exhibits, that are agreed 9 to, in terms of admissibility, or admission; Mr. 10 Berman? 11 MR. BERMAN: We have not discussed 12 whether we would agree to the exhibits. I don't 13 anticipate any dispute over them. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 15 MR. BERMAN: And I'd like to note, 16 about the exhibits, that there are two exhibits 17 that the FAA will be adding that were, actually, 18 part of Respondent's list of exhibits. 19 And I'm going to offer them as the 20 Agency's exhibits. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You are welcome to 22 try, and we will see what happens when you do.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com21 1 Okay. 2 Anything from you, Mr. Dobitsch, 3 before we start with the openings, and then the 4 testimony. 5 MR. DOBITSCH: No. The exhibits that 6 we have presented or no, I don't have any 7 changes on my side. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 9 It lS now about 9:15. We will 10 probably break around noon for lunch. I like to 11 take an hour and 15 minutes, just so people can 12 get out of the building. 13 I checked with the marshalls, this 14 morning, there is no cafeteria in this 15 courthouse, so you do have to leave the building 16 to get lunch. 17 So between now and noon we will 18 probably take a ten minute recess, some time 19 around 10:30, or quarter to 11. 20 And then when we come back, in the 21 afternoon, we will talk about taking an afternoon 22 break, probably around 2:30, between 2:30 and 3.

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### 22
1 

### So if anyone needs a 

### break, 2 

### independent of those time periods, please let me 3 

### know. I know sometimes an individual's personal 4 

### needs simply do not go according to the clock. 5 So, Mr. Berman, would you 1ike to make 6 an opening statement? 7 

### MR. BERMAN: Yes, I will make a brief 8 opening statement. 9 

### As you indicated, Your Honor, the 10 facts here ln this case are ont, really, in 11 

### dispute. Endless Mountains Air, had its pilot, 12 Randy Palmer, operate a Cirrus SR20 aircraft, ln 13 six flights, under the rules of Part 135, which 14 

### covers an alr carrier of this nature, on demand, 15 non-scheduled operations. 16 When Mr. Palmer was not current with 17 the testing requirements of 135293A, which calls 18 for a specific written and oral test, in various 19 areas, as well as 135299, which calls for a -- 20 requires a prolonged check in that particular 21 type of aircraft. 22 And he was, the evidence will show

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-- the deadline was 2 July 31st, of 2011, with a grace month, until the 3 next month, August 31st. 4 And these flights were conducted in 5 September 23rd, through October 9th. So even 6 with the grace month he was overdue for these 7 exams by more than three weeks. 8 And I anticipate that there will be 9 testimony, from Endless Mountains Air, that they 10 misunderstood the regulations. 11 But there will be testimony, from the 12 FAA inspector, that these requirements are really 13 quite clear and Endless Mountains Air, as an alr 14 carrier, since 2003, should be familiar with 15 these requirements. 16 And that misunderstanding is not a 17 mitigating factors. Inspector Soudas will, also, 18 testify about the sanctionguidelines of the FAA, 19 and how they call for a civil penalty of 46,200 20 dollars, in this case. 21 And there will also be testimony from 22 Inspector Bob Ference, of the Allentown Flight

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com24 1 Standards District Office. 2 The reason we are calling him, as a 3 witness, lS that we anticipate there will be 4 testimony, from Endless Mountains Air, about 5 discussions they had with the FSDO, flight 6 standards district office about their 7 misunderstanding of the regulations. 8 And there might be a suggestion that 9 Mr. Ference didn't give them the informationthat 10 they needed. And Mr. Ferencee will testify that, 11 in fact, he tried to help them, but they weren't 12 forthcoming with information that could have 13 helped him, to help them, to understand the 14 regulations. 15 And so at the conclusion of this 16 hearing we will request that Your Honor find that 17 civil penalties of 46,200 dollars is appropriate 18 and that the and that is all I have for now, 19 Your Honor. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you very 21 much, Mr. Berman. 22

(202) 234-4433 Mr. Dobitsch, would you like to make
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### 1 an opening now, or would you like to wait until 2 your defensive case comes ready? 3 

### The FAA goes first. When it rests its 4 case, the your defensive case starts. So you can 5 either make an opening now, if you want, or you 6 can wait, or not make one at all. 7 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Can I wait for now? 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Sure. 9 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Thank you. 10 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I will check back in 11 with you at the beginning of your own case. 12 Thank you. 13 Mr. Berman, would you like to put on 14 your first witness? 15 

### MR. BERMAN: Yes, the Agency calls 16 Harry Soudas. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Soudas. You will 18 want to put your books down, on the table, and 19 come up just by yourself, for the time being. 20 

### And once you come over to the witness 21 stand, I think our witness stand is to the right 22
-- it is to the left, excuse me.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com26 1 Before you sit down I will swear you 2 in. 3 Whereupon, 4 HARRY SOUDAS 5 was called as a witness by Counsel for the 6 Complainant and, having been duly sworn, assumed 7 the witness stand, was examined and testified as 8 follows: 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Please take a seat. 10 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you are 12 comfortable, please state your name, and spell 13 your last name for the record. 14 THE WITNESS: My name is Harry Soudas, 15 the last name the spelling is S-0-U-D-A-S. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Counsel, 17 you may enquire. 18 DIRECT EXAMINATION 19 BY MR. BERMAN: 20 Q 21 A 22 inspector

(202) 234-4433 Mr. Soudas, what is your occupation? My occupation is an aviation safety with the Federal
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www.nealrgross.com27 1 Administration. 2 Q Which facility of the FAA? 3 A The Allentown Flight Standards 4 District Office. 5 Q For how long have you been at the 6 Allentown's Flight Standards District Office? 7 A September of 2008. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm sorry, sir, I 9 couldn't hear you. 10 THE WITNESS: September of 2008. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 12 BY MR. BERMAN: 13 Q Is the Flight Standards District 14 Office also known as the FSDO? 15 A Yes, sir. That is the acronym. 16 Q And what are your duties at the 17 Allentown FSDO? 18 A As an aviation safety inspector my 19 primary duties are oversight of 135 operators, 20 charter companies, 141, flight schools, as well 21 as Part 61 flight schools. 22 Certifying new operators ln both

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### 1 regulations 135, 141, general oversight. 2 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm going to stop 3 

### you, sir. I'm taking notes and I can't write as 4 fast as you are talking. So you are welcome to 5 slow down. 6 

### THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, I will slow 7 down. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. The 9 question was what are your duties, and you were 10 talking about them. 11 THE WITNESS: Oversight of 135 

### 12 operators, and 141 flight schools, as well as 13 part 61 flight schools. 14 

### We work on new certifications for 15 

### newly certified operators. And I 

### also 16 investigate incidents, accidents, occurrences. 17 BY MR. BERMAN: 18 Q 

### Mr. Soudas, you used the term Part 19 135, lS 

### that correct? 20 A 

### 21 Q 22 A

(202) 234-4433 

### Yes, sir. And what is that referring to? Part 135 is a set of regulationsthat
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1 speaks to oversight of on demand operators, air 2 taxi operators. 3 Q Before joining the FAA did you have 4 experience in the private sector, that dealt with 5 Part 135 of the federal aviation regulations? 6 A Yes, I did. 7 Q And could you elaborate? 8 A Yes, sir. I worked as a pilot for a 9 135 operator, Scott Richard Aviation, based out 10 of Allentown, Pennsylvania. 11 Q And as an inspector with theFAA, and 12 someone with experience in Part 135, before 13 joining the FAA, did you have knowledge of the 14 examination requirements for Part 135 pilots? 15 A Yes, sir, I do. 16 Q And which regulations cover the 17 recurrent examination requirements for Part 135 18 pilots? 19 A 135.293A and B; 135.297, and 135.299. 20 Q Can any of these different regulations 21 substitute for each other, to fulfill the 22 requirement?

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.. N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com30 1 A No, sir. 2 Q Or lS each one necessary to fulfill 3 the requirement? 4 A Each one is necessary to maintain 5 currency under 135. 6 MR. BERMAN: Your Honor, I would like 7 to hand the witness a copy of the regulations. 8 May I approach to hand him the 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have a -- is 10 this, basically, an exhibit, or is it something 11 that you want him to review, to refresh his 12 recollection, what is the purpose of this? 13 MR. BERMAN: Something that he could 14 refer to in his testimony. I'm going to be asking 15 him a question about one of the FARs, at least 16 one of the FARs. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, I'm 18 going to ask you to wait until he demonstrates a 19 need to look at the regulations. And then if you 20 have a copy to give to Mr. Dobitsch, that would 21 be helpful. 22 You may continue.

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### 31
1 

### BY MR. BERMAN: 2 Q 

### Mr. Soudas, are you familiar with 3 

### Federal Aviation Regulation 135.293 (c)? 4 A 

### Yes, slr. 5 Q 

### And what, to your understanding, does 6 that state? 7 A 

### The verbiage in that regulation states 8 that the 297 check may be substituted for the 9 

### flight portion of the 2938 check. 10 Q 

### Does the can the 135.297 11 

### proficiency check, under that regulation, 12 135.293C satisfy the requirement for 135.293A? 13 A 

### No, sir. 14 Q 

### And what is

-- and why is that? 15 A 

### The 135.293 lS, basically, broke up 16 

### into two areas regarding flight currency. The A 17 section, which is the knowledge of oral check, 18 and the B section, which is the flight check. 19 So 135.297 I'm sorry, 135.293 (c), 20 references 135.297 in terms of 297 satisfyingthe 21 flight portion of 293. 22

(202) 234-4433 

### However, it does not provide for
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### 32
1 

### satisfying the knowledge portion of 293A. 2 Q 

### Okay. And does taking the 135.297 3 proficiency check, can that ever satisfy the 4 

### requirement for 135.299? 5 A 

### No, sir. 6 Q 

### And how are the checks different than 7 these regulations, 135.297 and 135.299? 8 A 

### So 135.297 is a different set of 9 

### testing parameters in terms of what is covered. 10 Under the 135.297 flight check, it references 11 

### flight maneuvers and instrument approaches, 12 

### precision v non-precision. 13 135.299 references what is known as a 14 

### line check. A line check is when the pilot flies 15 the aircraft to another airport, representative 16 

### of landing over a civil airway route. 17 Q 

### During the course of your career, with 18 

### the Allentown FSDO have you had dealings with a 19 company called Endless Mountains Air? 20 A 

### Yes, sir, I 

### have. 21 Q 

### And in what capacity? 22 A 

### From March of 2011, until March of

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### 33 1 2012, I 

### was assigned as the principal operations 2 inspector. 3 Q 

### For Endless Mountains Air? 4 A 

### Yes, sir, for Endless Mountains Air. 5 Q 

### A principal operations inspector is 6 also known as a POI? 7 A 

### Correct, Slr. 8 Q 

### And what are the duties of a POI? 9 A 

### The duties of the POI are to provide 10 certification management for the certificate 11 

### holder. In doing so commonly the tasks are, 12 performingcheck rides for the operator'spilots. 13 

### 14 We also are assigned, what is called, 15 the work program, which is general surveillance, 16 we have to go out and do periodic record checks 17 on the certificate holder's records. 18 Q 

### Could you describe what Endless 19 Mountains Air is, to your knowledge? 20 A 

### Yes, sir. Endless Mountains Air is a 21 certificated 135 operator, and the status of 22 their certificate is what is known as a single

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### 1 pilot operator. 2 Meaning that they can hire one pilot, 3 and that one pilot has to be a named pilot. 4 

### They, also, have one aircraft under certificate, 5 which is a single engine Cirrus, currently. 6 Q 

### Who is their pilot? 7 A 

### Their pilot is, now, and has been, 8 Randy Palmer. 9 Q 

### And he was their pilot in 2011? 10 A 

### Correct, sir. 11 Q 

### And who ran, to your knowledge, who 12 

### ran the business end of Endless Mountains Air? 13 A 

### Mr. Dobitsch is the president, and 14 

### agent for service. 15 Q 

### And he did so back in 2011? 16 A 

### Yes, sir. 17 Q 

### Suppose, does it necessarily have to 18 be Randy Palmer who flies the planes, or the 19 airplane, for Endless Mountains Air? 20 21 

### 22 A 

### No, sir. At any time a certificate holder can change pilots. And that, frequently, does occur.

(202) 234-4433 

### What has to happen, then, is a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com35 1 flight check be administered to the pilot, and 2 also a change to their OPS Specs, when that 3 person becomes a named pilot for that 4 certificate. 5 Q And were you the reporting inspector 6 for this case, that brings us here today? 7 A Yes, Slr. 8 Q And you investigated the matter? 9 A Yes, Slr. 10 Q And there lS

-- it is established, in 11 the record, that on September 23rd, 2011, to 12 October Bth, 2011, Endless Mountains Air operated 13 an SR20 aircraft November 624, Charlie, Papa 14 aircraft, in six flights, under the rules of Part 15 135 . 16 And Mr. Randy Palmer was the pilot for 17 each of these flights. Do you agree with that 18 statement? 19 A I agree with that statement, sir. 20 Q And during the course of your 21 investigation, did you review the pilot, Mr. 22 Palmer, to determine whether when he operated

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### 1 those flights, he was up to date with his 2 required examinations? 3 A 

### That is correct, sir. I 

### did review 4 those records. 5 Q 

### Which specific records did you 6 

### examine? 7 A 

### Duringscheduledroutinesurveillance, 8 on December 28th, of 2011, I 

### met with Mr. 9 

### Dobitsch on the base of operations, which is at 10 Endless Mountains Air, airport, in Factoryville, 11 

### PA. 12 And what he presented to me were load 13 

### manifests, which are required, for a passenger 14 carrylng operation, under 135. 15 What he presented to me was evidence 16 

### that there were Slx flights done between 17 September and October. Also two documents that 18 he provided were Mr. Palmer's flight and duty 19 times for the month of October, and September, 20 which indicated 135 flights had been done during 21 those two months. 22 Q 

### And did you review forms called 8410-

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### 1 3? 2 A 

### Yes, I did, sir. 3 Q 

### And what are those? 4 A 

### 8410-3 forms are forms that the Agency 5 uses when they conduct a 135 flight test, or oral 6 

### portion. Mr. Dobitsch did have those records. 7 And what was indicated on those was the flights 8 that had taken place had lapsed in currency, and 9 would have lapsed in currency on September 1st of 10 2010, excuse me, 2011. 11 Q 

### I just want to backtrack, something I 12 should have asked before. But are you familiar 13 with the concept of base month, and grace month, 14 when it comes to currency requirements for Part 15 135 pilots? 16 A 

### Yes, I am, Slr. 17 Q 

### Can you explain? 18 A 

### Yes, sir. That falls under 135.301. 19 

### The grace month/base month, grace month 20 late/grace month early concept is as such. 21 22 

### If a pilot were to take all of his required check rides in say,

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### for example,

www.nealrgross.com38 

### 1 January, a check that he would also need would be 2 a six month recurrent check, which would take 3 place in July. 4 

### He could take that check inJune, any 5 

### time during July, or any time during August. It 

### 6 is a 30 day window prior to your base month, and 7 

### a 30 day window late of your grace month. 8 Q 

### So if it is a 12 month requirement, 9 what would the grace month
-- 10 A 

### The same latitude would apply to, once 11 again using that example of January, if the pilot 12 were due in the month of January, that would be 13 his base month, for his 12 month checks. 14 He could dome in as early as December 15 1st, and as late as February 28th or, possibly, 16 29th. 17 

### MR. BERMAN: Your Honor, I have 18 

### exhibits I would like to offer. I just want to 19 make sure that I have the protocol correct. 20 The 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I presume that you've 22 exchanged those exhibits with Mr. Dobitsch,

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com39 1 already, so he has a copy? 2 MR. BERMAN: That is correct. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And we need to have 4 two copies for the court reporter, and one for 5 me. 6 MR. BERMAN: Right. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then you can give 8 your extra to the witness to -- actually, that is 9 incorrect. One to the court reporter, one to me, 10 one to the witness, but the ones to the witness, 11 that are admitted, will go to the court reporter, 12 ultimately. 13 Yes, we will do that. 14 MR. BERMAN: Thank you. I'd like to 15 have well, it is already marked for 16 identification, but I am going to show the 17 witness exhibits C-2 and C-3. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And if you would be 19 so kind as to approach the witness, and I will 20 ask the court reporter to hand up my copy to me. 21 I will note that the court reporter 22 has handed up, to me, exhibit C-2 and C-3. We

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com40 1 actually have them marked already, thank you. 2 And these exhibits have also been 3 handed to the witness. Mr. Berman, do you have a 4 copy for the court reporter? 5 MR. BERMAN: Okay. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I will note that Mr. 7 Berman is handing a copy to the court reporter as 8 well. Thank you, sir. 9 BY MR. BERMAN: 10 Q Mr. Soudas, you have been handed what 11 is marked as exhibits C-2 and C-3. 12 Could you identify what exhibit C-2 13 is? 14 A Exhibit C-2 is an 8410-3 form. 15 Q For Randy Palmer? 16 A Yes, sir. It is for Randy Palmer. 17 Q And what about exhibit C-3? 18 A Exhibit C-3 is the same document, for 19 Mr. Palmer, an 8410-3 form. However, it has a 20 different date than exhibit C-2. 21 Q 22 A

(202) 234-4433 Which date was that? Exhibit C-3 is dated July 7th, 2010.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com41 1 Q And Exhibit C-2 is dated July 22nd, 2 2010? 3 A Correct, sir. 4 MR. BERMAN: I offer what is marked as 5 exhibit C-2 and C-3 into evidence. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, do you 7 have any objection to the admission request on 8 exhibit C-2? 9 MR. DOBITSCH: No, I do not. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit C-2 is, 11 hereby, admitted. 12 (The document referred to, 13 having been previously 14 marked for identificationas 15 Complainant Exhibit C-2 is 16 admitted in evidence.) 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What about Exhibit C18 3? Any objection? 19 20 21 admitted. 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. DOBITSCH: No. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit C-3 is hereby (The document referred to,
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### having been previously 2 

### marked for identificationas 3 

### Complainant Exhibit C-3 is 4 

### admitted ln evidence.) 5 

### BY MR. BERMAN: 6 Q 

### Mr. Soudas, with respect to Exhibit 

## c7 3, does this reflect that Mr. Palmer, fulfilling 8 the requirements of any of the Part 135, 9 

### examinations for Part 135 pilots? 10 A 

### Yes, it does sir. 11 Q 

### And what does it reflect? 12 A 

### It reflects that on July 7th, 2010 Mr. 13 

### Palmer successfully completed 135.293A 14 

### examination conducted by Mr. Robert Ference. 15 Q 

### And Robert Ference is an FAA 

### 16 inspector? 17 A 

### Yes, sir. 18 Q 

### He is here today? 19 A 

### He lS, sir. 20 Q 

### And I know that on the left-hand, 21 where it says under left hand column of 22 exhibit C-3, under the column pre-flight, the

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1 word oral is circled. 2 What does that mean to you? 3 A 135.293A check is the knowledge 4 portion of the 293 check. And it can be 5 conducted as either a written test or an oral 6 question and answer testing. 7 What was done, that day, was that the 8 test was performed in an oral testing manner. 9 Q And the remarks there, and could you 10 it says new base month oral completed. 11 A Correct, sir. 12 Q What does that mean to you? 13 A What that means, to me, is that more 14 than likely Mr. Palmer, or perhaps for a variety 15 of reasons, went non-current, and was re16 establishing his currency. 17 And it was noted that now is a new 18 base mont for Mr. Palmer. 19 Q I refer your attention to Exhibit C-2. 20 And does this reflect Mr. Palmer fulfilling the 21 requirements of Part 135 regulations for currency 22 examinations for Part 135 pilots?

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### 1 A 

### Correct, sir. 2 Q 

### And if he already had taken these 3 examinations on July 7th, 2010, what would be the 4 purpose of the July 22nd, 2010? 5 A 

### What occurred on July 7th was only the 6 

### oral portion. What occurred, approximately two 7 

### weeks later, on July 22nd, was the remaining 8 items to establish currency, the 135.293B, which 9 is the flight portion, the 135.299, which is the 10 line check, the 135-297, also an examination of 11 his use of the auto pilot. 12 So what happened here was the flight 13 portion of the test took place, which isn't 14 uncommon, to have dates split like this, perhaps 15 there was a weather issue, or mechanical issue, 16 and the couldn't complete all the tasks on July 17 7th. 18 

### So they rescheduled and completed 19 them, approximately, two weeks later. 20 Q 

### So would it be fair to say thatas of 21 July 22nd, 2010, Mr. Palmer was current with 22 respect to requirements of 135.293 and 135.297,

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE. NW. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com45 1 and 135.299? 2 A That is correct, sir. 3 Q And when would he have been next due 4 for a 135.293 examination? 5 A The next 135.293 examination would be 6 due, as indicated on the form, in July of '11. 7 Q What about the grace month? 8 A The grace month would allow Mr. Palmer 9 to remain current under 135.293 until the last 10 day of July-- I'm sorry, last day of August of 11 2010. 12 Q Did you mean to say 2011? 13 A I'm sorry, 2011, excuse me. 14 Q And when would he be next due for a 15 135.299 examination? 16 A That date would be the same. It would 17 be July of 2011, grace month late, the last day 18 of August 2011. 19 Q In reviewing Mr. Palmer's 8410-3 20 forms, did you find that the
-- was any record of 21 compliance with the examination requirements of 22 either 135.293 or 135.299, between July 22nd,

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### 1 2010 and the time that he conducted the flights 2 in September and October of 2011? 3 A 

### No, sir. 4 Q 

### Were there any intervening8410-3s, at 5 all? 6 A 

### The only other subsequent 8410-3 form, 7 that was present, was a 135.297 check, that was 8 taken on April 18th, of 2011. 9 Q 

### Were there any other 8410-3s? 10 A 

### No, sir. 11 Q 

### Well, was the

-- 12 MR. BERMAN: I'd like to hand the 13 well, this is an exhibit that was not included ln 14 the Agency's pre-hearing submissions, but it was 15 included in Respondent'sPre-Hearingsubmissions. 16 

### And this is an 8410-3 dated April 17 

### 18th, 2011. I'd like to show this to the 18 witness. 19 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Are you asking for it 20 to be marked as an exhibit, are you marking it as 21 an exhibit? 22

(202) 234-4433 

### MR. BERMAN: I already marked it as
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1 Exhibit C-8. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And which of 3 those exhibits was it marked as Respondent's 4 Exhibit, just so that the Court knows? 5 MR. BERMAN: I believe it is Exhibit 6 A. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Dobitsch, 8 you have a copy of that? 9 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you would bring up 11 your coples, Mr. Berman, that would be great. 12 I note that the court reporter is 13 handing me a copy of Exhibit C-8. 14 BY MR. BERMAN: 15 Q Mr. Soudas, I have just handed you 16 what lS marked as Exhibit C-8. Can you identify 17 this document? 18 A Yes, sir. This lS an 8410-3 form 19 dated April 18th, 2011, with the name of the 20 airman, Randy Palmer. 21 Q And this lS something that you 22 reviewed during the investigation?

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1 A Yes, sir. 2 MR. BERMAN: I offer what is marked as 3 Exhibit C-8 into evidence. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, there 5 has been a motion to admit Exhibit C-8. Do you 6 have any objection? 7 MR. DOBITSCH: No objection, Your 8 Honor. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit C-8 is, 10 hereby, admitted. 11 (The document referred to, 12 having been previously 13 marked for identificationas 14 Complainant Exhibit C-8 is 15 admitted in evidence.) 16 BY MR. BERMAN: 17 Q Mr. Soudas, exhibit 

## c-8 reflect a 18 check on April 18th, 2011, is that 19 A 20 Q 21 satisfy? 22 A

(202) 234-4433 That is correct, sir. And which regulation does that
This would satisfy 135.297.
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1 Q 

### Would this have been a substitute for 2 requirement of 135.293A? 3 A 

### No sir. 4 Q 

### Would it have been a substitute for 5 requirement 135.299? 6 A 

### No, sir. 7 Q 

### Do you recall the circumstancesbehind 8 this check of April 18th, 2011? 9 A 

### The circumstances that required the 10 need for this were, are reflected on exhibit C-2, 11 on the lower right-hand side, where it says, 12 satisfactorily demonstrated IFR proficiency, AFR 13 

### 135.297, expires (6months). 14 

### And it is indicated that that would 15 expire on January of '11. This was the next 16 flight check Mr. Palmer would have needed to 17 remain current throughout the year. 18 He could have taken that test any time 19 

### during December, January, or February. The test 20 was satisfactorilycompletedon April 18th, 2011. 21 Q 

### Had he taken a previous unsatisfactory 22 examination?

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1 A Yes, sir. 2 Q And when was that? 3 A It was February 18th of 2011. 4 Q And that was in 135.297? 5 A Yes, Slr. 6 MR. BERMAN: I'd like to show the 7 witness what is marked as Exhibit C-9. And, 8 again, this is another exhibit that was not in 9 the Agency's Pre-Hearing submission, but was in 10 the Respondent's Pre-Hearing submissions. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And in terms of 12 proposed exhibit C-9, can you identify which of 13 the Respondent's exhibits it correlates to? 14 MR. BERMAN: I don't see the number, 15 here. Perhaps Mr. Dobitsch can help me out. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What is the date of 17 the exhibit? 18 MR. DOBITSCH: February 11, 2011. 19 MR. BERMAN: February 11, 2011. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That would be 21 Respondent's Exhibit C, as in cat. Just so that 22 we are all clear about that.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com51 1 I will note that Mr. Berman has 2 approached the bench and is handing the court 3 reporter her copy, and the Court's copy of 4 proposed exhibit C-9. 5 BY MR. BERMAN: 6 Q Mr. Soudas, I have just handed you 7 what is marked as Exhibit C-9. Can you identify 8 this document? 9 A Yes, sir. This is an 8410-3 form, 10 dated February 11th, 2011, with the name of the 11 airman Randy Palmer. 12 Q And what does this reflect? 13 A This is reflective of a 135.297 check. 14 Q And was -- this is the one that was 15 unsatisfactory, that you referred to before? 16 A Yes, sir. 17 Q All right. 18 MR. BERMAN: I offer what is marked as 19 Exhibit C-9 into evidence. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, do you 21 have any objection? 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. DOBITSCH: No objections, Your
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com52 1 Honor. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit C-9 is hereby 3 admitted. 4 (The document referred to, 5 having been previously 6 marked for identificationas 7 Complainant Exhibit C-9 was 8 admitted ln evidence.) 9 BY MR. BERMAN: 10 Q Mr. Soudas, so Exhibits C-2, C-3, C-8 11 and C-9, do these represent the totality of the 12 8410-3s for Mr. Palmer, for Endless Mountains 13 Air, during the period between July of 2010 and 14 October of 2011? 15 A Yes, Slr. That is correct. 16 Q During the course of your 17 investigation, did you write a letter of 18 investigation to Endless Mountains Air? 19 A Yes, I did, sir. 20 MR. BERMAN: I'd like to approach the 21 witness to show him Exhibit C-4. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You may. I will note
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### 1 that Mr. Berman is handing up, to the Court and 2 

### the court reporter, copies of Exhibit C-4. And 3 the witness has received a copy as well. 4 

### BY MR. BERMAN: 5 Q 

### Mr. Soudas, I've handed you what is 6 

### marked as Exhibit C-4. Can you identify this 7 

### document? 8 A 

### Yes, sir. This lS 

### the letter of 9 

### investigationdated January 4th, 2012, 

### that I had 10 

### sent to Mr. William Dobitsch, of Endless 11 Mountains Air. 12 

### MR. BERMAN: I offer what is marked as 13 Exhibit C-4 into evidence. 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, any 15 objection? 16 

### MR. DOBITSCH: No objections, Your 17 Honor. 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit C-4 is, 19 hereby, admitted. 20 21 22

(202) 234-4433 

### (The document referred to, having been previously marked for identificationas
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1 Complainant Exhibit C-4 is 2 admitted in evidence.) 3 MR. BERMAN: I'd like to approach the 4 witness to hand him what is pre-marked as Exhibit 

## s c-s. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You may. I will note 7 Mr. Berman is handing the Court, and the court 8 reporter, copies of this exhibit. And the 9 witness has now received his copy as well. 10 BY MR. BERMAN: 11 Q Mr. Soudas, I've handed you what is 12 marked as Exhibit C-5. Can you identify this 13 document? 14 A Yes, Slr, I can. This was a letter, in 15 response, from Mr. Dobitsch, in response to the 16 Letter of Investigation that I had sent Mr. 17 Dobitsch of Endless Mountains Air. 18 And this was, also, his response to 19 follow-up after the meeting we had at the FSDO. 20 21 objection? 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, any
MR. DOBITSCH: No objection, Your
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### 55 1 Honor. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit C-5 is, 3 hereby, admitted. 4 

### (The document referred to, 5 

### having been previously 6 

### marked for identificationas 7 

### Complainant Exhibit C-5 is 8 

### admitted ln evidence.) 9 

### BY MR. BERMAN: 10 Q 

### Mr. Soudas, did you, during the course 11 of your investigation, did you speak to Mr. 12 Dobitsch, or Mr. Palmer, about the violations 13 that you discovered? 14 A 

### Yes, I did, sir. 15 Q 

### And could you describe what 16 conversation you had? 17 A 

### Sure. The first conversation was on 18 the date that this was discovered, on December 19 28th, at their location. 20 Both Mr. Dobitsch and
-- 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm sorry, sir, 22 you need a year with that date.

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1 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: December 28th of what 3 year? 4 THE WITNESS: December 28th, 2011. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 6 THE WITNESS: When this was noticed. 7 And that took place at their facility. 8 I was originally talking with Mr. Dobitsch, and 9 we were trying to ascertain, perhaps more checked 10 ride forms, to show that Mr. Palmer was current. 11 A few minutes later Mr. Palmer 12 arrived. And I queried him as to, perhaps, he 13 had more checked ride forms, that weren't 14 present, to show that he was current. And he 15 responded that he did not. 16 The next dialogue that we had was at 17 the Flight Standards District Office on January 18 18th, when both gentlemen came down for a meeting 19 in response to the LOI, that they had both 20 received. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm going to stop 22 you, again, January 18th of what year, sir?

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com57 1 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, that would be 2 2012. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you, go ahead. 4 THE WITNESS: They came to the Flight 5 Standards District Office to discuss the Letter 6 of Investigation that they had both received. 7 BY MR. BERMAN: 8 Q Mr. Dobitsch and Mr. Palmer? 9 A Yes, Slr. 10 Q And do you recall the substance of 11 that conversation? 12 A Yes, I do. 13 Q And what was that? 14 A The substance of the conversation, in 15 regard to the violation that had been found, was 16 that they stated that they were confused, and 17 they attributed that being a misunderstanding as 18 to why this had occurred. 19 Q Did you regard their stated 20 misunderstanding, of the regulations, to be a 21 mitigating factors? 22 A

(202) 234-4433 No, sir, I did not.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com58 1 Q 

### And why is that? 2 A 

### Endless Mountains Air has been a 3 certificated 135 operator since October of 2003. 4 Mr. Palmer has taken many check rides throughout 5 that eight year period. 6 Periodically, throughoutthe knowledge 7 portion of 293A, we question folks about that. 8 

### Endless Mountains Air also submits a compliance 9 statement upon its certification as to how they 10 are golng to comply with all the pertinent 11 regulations. 12 

### They had addressed that ln their 13 compliance statement, as they would remaln 14 current, suggesting they have an understandingof 15 the regulations, and how they apply to their 16 operation. 17 Q 

### Are you familiar with the sanction 18 

### guidelines set forth in FAA 2150.38)? 19 A 

### Yes, sir, I am. 20 Q 

### And what is FAA Order 2150.38? 21 A 

### That is an FAA order which is used to 22 assist in the compliance and enforcementprogram,

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com59 1 that sets forth the sanctions, policies, and 2 guidelines. 3 MR. BERMAN: I'd like to approach the 4 witness to hand him what is pre-marked as Exhibit 5 C-7,1 which has six pages. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You may. I will note 7 counsel lS handing up to the Court, the court 8 reporter, and the witness, copies of Exhibit C-7. 9 BY MR. BERMAN: 10 Q Mr. Soudas, I've just handed you what 11 lS marked as Exhibit C-7, which contains s1x 12 pages. 13 Can you identify this document? 14 A Yes, sir. These are pages out of the 15 FAA order 20150.3B. 16 Q And do they contain information that 17 is pertinent to establishingthe sanction in this 18 particular case? 19 A Yes, sir, they do. 20 MR. BERMAN: I offer what is marked as 21 Exhibit C-7 into evidence. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, do you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com60 1 have any objection? 2 MR. DOBITSCH: No objection. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit C-7 is, 4 hereby, admitted. 5 (The document referred to, 6 having been previously 7 marked for identificationas 8 Complainant Exhibit C-7 is 9 admitted in evidence.) 10 BY MR. BERMAN: 11 Q Mr. Soudas, I'm referring your 12 attention to page 1 of 6, of Exhibit C-7, where 13 it refers to Part 135 air carriers that can be 14 designated as group III, or group IV. 15 Which one would Endless Mountains Air 16 be? 17 A Endless MountainsAir fall under group 18 IV. 19 Q And why is that? 20 A As the verbiage on the Group IV 21 states, sir, each air carrier, or commercial 22 operator, operating under Part 135 with no more

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### 1 than five pilots and no more than four aircraft. 2 Being a single pilot operator, with 3 one named pilot, and one aircraft, would qualify 4 Endless Mountains Air under Group IV. 5 Q 

### I refer your attention to the last 6 three pages of this exhibit, exhibit pages 4, 5, 7 and 6. And where there is a table of recommended 8 penalties, does the violation, or violations in 9 this case, fall within any of the categories set 10 forth, listed on these pages? 11 A 

### Yes, sir, it does. Just one moment, 12 please. 13 

### (Witness revlews document.) 14 

### THE WITNESS: Yes, Slr, it does, under 15 figure B-1-N. 16 BY MR. BERMAN: 17 Q 18 

### A 19 Q 20 

### A 21 Q 

### 22 A

(202) 234-4433 

### Which page are you looking at? Labeled page 6 

### of 6. 

### So figure B-1-N? Correct, sir. And which specific item, within that? The specific item, within that, would
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### 1 be Use of Crew Member, Use of Unqualified Crew 2 Member. 3 Q 

### And what is the civil penalty 4 

### recommended here? 5 A 

### Under line item 3, 

### use of unqualified 6 

### crew member, under civil penalty, would be the 7 

### maximum. 8 Q 

### And why do you say that this would be 9 

### the relevant violation in this case? 10 A 

### This would be the appropriate 11 violation in this case because, indeed, Mr. 12 Palmer was operating under 135 when he was not 13 qualified, as a current 135 pilot. 14 Q 

### And you are saying he was not 15 qualified because he wasn't current with respect 16 to the examination requirements? 17 A 

### That is correct, sir. 18 Q 

### I refer your attention to page 3 of 19 

### this exhibit. And where there is a different 20 categories of Group IV violations. 21 Then can you tell me which one would 22 apply here?

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### 63
1 A 

### Yes, sir. The appropriate one would 2 be Group IV, it would be the third line item down 3 

### from the top of the page, for violations covered 4 

### under 49USC46301(a) (5) (a) that occurred after 5 

### June 15th, 2006. 6 

### As indicated, by the previous 7 

### statement, the maximum civil penalty would be 8 

### 4,400 dollars to 11,000 dollars. 9 Q 

### And what would be the, given that the 10 

### range is 4,400 to 11,000, what would be the 11 

### appropriate number, that you feel, would be 12 appropriate in this case? 13 A 

### In this case there were no aggravating 14 

### circumstances. It is the Agency's policy, 15 

### normally, to take the mid-range of that dollar 16 

### amount. 17 Q 

### When there are mitigating 18 

### circumstances? 19 A No, Slr. 20 Q 

### So are you saying there were no 21 aggravating, no particular aggravating or 22 mitigating circumstances?

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com64 1 A That is a correct statement, sir. 2 Q So, can you go on with how you would 3 calculate the 4 A Correct. With the dollar figure being 5 4,400 to 11,000, the Agency's position, normally, 6 you would take the mid-range. 7 What was done, was 4,400 dollars was 8 added to 11,000 dollars, divided by two, came up 9 with 7,700 dollars, multiplied by 6. 10 Six was indicative of the six 11 violations that occurred, to equal a dollar 12 figure of 46,200 dollars. 13 Q By six violations are you referring to 14 the six flights during the
-- 15 A Correct, sir. The SlX flights that 16 had occurred. 17 Q The six flights, involved with Mr. 18 Palmer, ln September, October 2011, is that 19 A That is correct, sir. 20 MR. BERMAN: No further questions. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, do you 22 have any cross-examination of this witness?

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1 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I would. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You may proceed. 3 CROSS-EXAMINATION 4 BY MR. DOBITSCH: 5 Q Previously Mr. Berman had shown some 6 exhibits, a number of alrmen 7 competency/proficiencycheck forms, to you just 8 now. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And let's just check 10 and find out where those exhibits are. Are they 11 all up at your witness stand? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, rna'am, I have 13 everything that Mr. Berman gave you. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. 15 They are still up there before the witness. 16 MR. DOBITSCH: Thank you. 17 BY MR. DOBITSCH: 18 Q They were numbered C-2 and C-3. They 19 were 293, pertaining to a 293 and a 299, and 297 20 check ride, 401 check rides? 21 A 22 of me.

(202) 234-4433 Yes, sir. I have C-2 and C-3 in front

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com66 1 Q And they were dated two different 2 dates in July of 2010? 3 A That is correct, sir. 4 Q I'd also like to refer to Exhibit C-8, 5 which is another airman competency check ride, 6 that was performed by Mr. Palmer, on April 18th, 7 2011. 8 A Yes, sir, I have it. 9 Q Okay. Would you be able to explain to 10 me, from the way I understand it, these two July 11 2010 proficiency check forms amount to one 12 proficiency check under 293, 7 and 9, 299, 13 correct? 14 A I'm sorry, couldyou repeat that, sir? 15 Q I'm sorry. These two proficiencycheck 16 forms, in July of 2010, combined they would, they 17 satisfied 135.293, 297, and 299? 18 A That is correct, sir. 19 Q And then on C-8, the proficiency 20 check, from April 18th of 2011, this form would 21 satisfy a 135.297 check at that point? 22 A

(202) 234-4433 That is correct, slr.
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### Could you tell me if there were any 2 substantial differences, when it comes to the 3 oral and the flight check items on both forms? 4 A 

### The both forms that you are referring 5 

### to, sir, are from July? 6 Q 

### Yes, the ones from July, versus the 7 

### one, the two from July versus the one from April 8 

### of 2011. If I -- I guess my question is, if I 9 

### combine the oral and the flight check items, on - 10
- 

### yes, between those two separate check rides, 11 

### and what is listed on the forms, is there any 12 

### substantial difference between those two items? 13 A 

### Yes, sir. If I'm understanding your 14 

### questioning, the questioning being, is there a 15 

### difference between the oral for the 293 and a 16 

### difference between the oral for the 297? 17 Q 

### No. What I'm asking is, is there 18 

### looking at these forms, items that are 19 satisfactory, not checked, is there a -- 20 My questionwould be, if I combine the 21 

### oral and the flight check from 2010, could I -- 22 the items that are checked off on that form,

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### 1 would they also-- could I say that all the items 2 on C-8, from 2011 are also

-- are checked on -- 3 A 

### No, sir. 4 Q 

### And can you tell me what the 5 difference, between the oral and the flight 6 check, the differences are on the forms? 7 A 

### There is an oral portion to the 8 135.297. There is an oral portion to the 135.293. 9 The oral portion, of the 135.297, primarily is 10 just a test of the individual's knowledge of the 11 aircraft, emergency procedures, power plant, 12 

### things regarding the aircraft. 13 The knowledge check, the oral portion 14 

### on the 293A is a much broader scope. It is the 15 regulations, as they apply to the operator, the 16 regulations of Part 61, 91, 135, certificate 17 holder's OPS SPECS, certificate holder's manual, 18 if they have one, weather, meteorology, wind 19 shear escape maneuvers, things of that nature. 20 It is a much more broader oral than 21 

### that of the 135.297. 22 Q 

### Okay, so what you are saying is that

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### 1 the oral would be broader, but the flight check 2 items would be similar, or the same, as per reg? 3 A 

### As per reg, there is one more approach 4 that is done on the 293, typically, versus the 5 297. 6 Q 

### Okay. I guess, for the record, I see 7 three approaches on both of them. Okay, on both 8 the

-- 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Did you want to ask 10 the witness about those? 11 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, sure, thank you, 12 Your Honor. 13 BY MR. DOBITSCH: 14 Q 

### Like I had just mentioned, it would 15 appear, lS there a reason why there are the same 16 number of approaches on both of these flight 17 checks? 18 A 

### There lS what is required is a 19 

### preClSlOn approach, and two non-precision 20 approaches. And on the yearly check, whereas if 21 you look at the bottom, of the right hand column, 22 of any of the forms, where it says use of

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### 70 1 autopilot is/is not authorized. 2 You will note that on the April 18th, 3 2011 form that test was not performed, as 4 evidenced by there being no date in that block. 5 

### Whereas if you were to look at the 6 8410, labeled Exhibit C-2, dated July 22nd, 7 referencing the same area of the form, the lower 8 right side, it states, use of autopilot is/is not 9 authorized. 10 

### That is a 12 month check. It has a 11 date in there of 7-11. So one of those 12 approaches are what we call a coupled approach. 13 

### Being a 

### single pilot operator, having 14 authorization for the use of autopilot, in lieu 15 of second in command, as required to be checked. 16 Q 

### Earlier, I believe you had said, that 17 during any airmen competency/proficiency flight 18 checks, that you had given to Mr. Palmer, you've 19
-- I'm asking

-- I actually want to ask. 20 Have you ever questionEd him on the 21 use, the understanding of regulations 135.293, 22 279, and 299?

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### 71
1 A 

### Well, sure. That is part of the oral 2 questioning, the pertinent 135 regs. 3 Q 

### Are you sure of that? 4 A 

### Am I sure of what, sir? 5 Q 

### That you have done that in the past 6 with Mr. Palmer? 7 A I -- 8 Q 

### As part of your check with the airman 9 check, with Mr. Palmer? 10 A 

### Sure, that is as simple as asking the 11 pilot when are due for your next check ride, 12 where are you at, be grace month, base month, it 13 is as simple as that. 14 Q 

### Is there, have you ever asked me 15 those, the application of these 16 A 

### No, I never spoke with you on those 17 matters, sir. 18 Q 

### Is there a reason why the FAA doesn't 19 question the operator of the charter company, on 20 the requirements of its pilots? 21 A 

### Well, sir, there is a vetting process 22 that occurs, early in the certification process.

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### 1 I was not with the FAA, the inspector handling 2 your certification at that time. 3 But what an operator does do is submit 4 a 

### compliance statement declaring that they 5 understand the regulations, and how they intend 6 to comply with them. 7 Q 

### Is there a reason why a pilot would go 8 through an oral exam on a regular basis, and an 9 operator would not? 10 A 

### I'm sorry, sir? 11 Q 

### On a regular basis it seems that a 12 pilot, a charter pilot, would have to submit to 13 an oral exam on, effectively, a six month basis. 14 

### There is no requirement for a charter 15 operator, such as myself? 16 A 

### No, sir. 17 Q 

### So the FAA never does verify, or 18 check, an operator's knowledge on those three 19 regulations? 20 A 

### As I said, earlier, the operator 21 submits a compliance statement, which how they 22 intend to comply with the regulations.

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### 1 Q 

### Prior to these violations have I ever 2 had any deficiencies, or violations, prior to 3 this? 4 A 

### No, sir. 5 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Is it okay, Your Honor, 6 for me to just put a hypothetical out there? 7 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Sure. 8 

### BY MR. DOBITSCH: 9 Q 

### If a charter pilot ever contacted, I 10 guess a company that you are responsible for 11 monitoring, and inspect and do check rides; if a 12 pilot ever called you and had asked for any kind 13 of guidance as to when a check ride was due, what 14 would you do in that case? 15 A 

### Well, that does occur from time to 16 

### time. And, first and foremost, what we do is 17 direct the person asking the question, to contact 18 their principal operations inspector. 19 

### JUDGESULLIVAN: I'msorry, sir, could 20 you repeat that? 21 THE WITNESS: Yes. That does happen 22 from time to time. And the first thing we would

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com74 1 do is direct the individual to contact their 2 principal operations inspector, and review the 3 records, and make sure that we are all looking at 4 the same set of papers. 5 Documents that you have, that we have, 6 so we can compare them, and speak intelligently 7 about it, and come up with the data of what you 8 need. 9 MR. DOBITSCH: No more questions, Your 10 Honor. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. 12 Berman, do you have any redirect? 13 MR. BERMAN: No, I don't, Your Honor. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I have one or two 15 questions if I may, sir? 16 THE WITNESS: Yes. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, then, I will 18 give both parties an opportunity to ask 19 additional questions, if they need to. 20 You indicated, in your early direct 21 testimony, that a certificate holder can change 22 pilots, on occasion.

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com75 1 Do you recall that testimony? 2 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Can you describe, 4 exactly, how that would occur, and how much time 5 it takes, and how much effort if a pilot needs to 6 be changed, for a small business, such as the 7 Respondent's? 8 THE WITNESS: It would not take very 9 much time, at all, on the Agency's behalf. On the 10 operator, he would have to have a person who is 11 trained, and submit to us that he wishes to make 12 a change. 13 In terms of time they could call us, 14 basically, what we are going to do is schedule a 15 check ride for the person, and a lot of the items 16 that we just discussed. 17 But it is a very, relatively, short 18 turn around time. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you say 20 relatively short, what does that mean to you? 21 THE WITNESS: It could be as, 22 dependent upon work schedule, it could be, if

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com76 1 initial contact on a Monday, we could have it 2 done by the end of the week. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And that is provided 4 that weather conditions would allow? 5 THE WITNESS: Absolutely. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Once an operator 7 changes a pilot, is it typical to do that on a 8 temporary basis, a short term basis, or only for 9 a long term basis? What has your experience 10 been? 11 THE WITNESS: My experience on that is 12 that it varies from company to company, based 13 upon the type of equipment they have, and what 14 their workload is. 15 Typically it could be short term, if 16 someone had a medical issue, perhaps, and they 17 needed to get another pilot in there. 18 Or somebodymoved on, and they need to 19 get someone in there permanently. It is somewhat 20 of a broad brush. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You indicated, in 22 your direct testimony, that in looking at exhibit

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1 

## c-9, 

### 2 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: in the remarks 4 section, which is at the bottom of the right hand 5 side of the page, of this one page ex-husband. 6 

### That Mr. Palmer's grace month was 7 

### late. If his due date was January of 2011, and 8 the date of the check was February of 2011, isn't 9 that within the grace period, that you described 10 earlier, one month early, one month late? 11 

### THE WITNESS: Absolutely, ma'am. 12 There is nothing contrary to regulations about 13 when this was conducted. 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: So why would your 15 form, that is identified as C-9, indicate in the 16 remarks section, that the grace month was late, 17 if it was not late? 18 

### THE WITNESS: Well, there again, that 19 is an effort that we make

-- let me back up and 20 

### say this. When we complete a check ride, 21 regardless of the outcome, we provide a copy of 22 this to the operator as well.

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1 

### We keep one for our records. This is 2 just further validation, in an effort to keep 3 folks in line with their due dates, just a 4 

### general note saying you are a grace month late. 5 

### We didn't re-establish a grace month, 6 

### here, in February. You are due in January. This 7 

### is just a reminder in the document that we were 8 

### exercising 135.301. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Why would it be late 10 

### if the grace month is allowed? 11 

### THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Oh, we -- 12 

### that is just the way we reference it. You can 13 

### say grace month early, grace month late. 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. You 15 

### indicated, in your direct testimony, when you 16 

### were talking about page 3 

### of exhibit C-7, 

### that 17 

### there was neither aggravation, or mitigation in 18 

### this particular case. 19 

### Do you recall that testimony? 20 

### THE WITNESS: Yes, I do, ma'am. 21 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: What kind of 22 mitigating factors did you consider, if any?
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1 

### THE WITNESS: There were none, ma'am. 2 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you say there 3 were none, does that mean you considerednone, or 4 

### that you reviewed all mitigating factors that are 5 

### allowed under Exhibit C-7, and found none? 6 

### THE WITNESS: That is a correct 7 

### statement, ma'am. 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I gave you an 9 

### option. So tell me which option you are 10 

### choosing. 11 

### THE WITNESS: Well, it would be 12 everything that we had reviewed did not raise to 13 

### a level they consider to be mitigating, in this 14 

### matter. 15 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Can you give an 16 

### example, of what you reviewed, that you did not 17 

### consider as a mitigating factor? 18 

### THE WITNESS: Two items, that the 19 

### Defendants offered, was that they were confused. 20 

### And that, that contributed to their 21 misunderstanding. 22 I didn't feel that was the case, glven

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### 1 the history of the company, and the level of 2 experience that the pilot had. 3 

### They also offered that they had 4 

### reached out to Inspector Ference, to discuss 5 this. I was not privy to that conversation. 6 

### I believe Inspector Ference referred 7 

### them to me. However, what they did not do was 8 follow-up with any other inspectors, myself being 9 the principal, send in emails, contact our 10 management. 11 They just continued on, even with the 12 supposed confusion. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Anything else that 14 you would like to add, to your testimony, about 15 this particular issue of mitigation? 16 

### THE WITNESS: No, ma'am. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Berman, 18 startingwith you, do you have any additional sur 19 direct, based on the Court's enquiry? 20 

### MR. BERMAN: No, I don't. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, based 22 on the Court's enquiry, do you have any sur

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### 1 cross? 2 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, just one question. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: You may. 4 

### BY MR. DOBITSCH: 5 Q 

### You just mentioned that Endless 6 Mountains Air, and Mr. Palmer, didn't follow up 7 

### beyond Mr. Ference for information, for guidance 8 

### on whether a check ride was due, or not, for Mr. 9 

### Palmer. 10 

### Is it customary that a 

### charter 11 operator would have to go to multiple inspectors 12 to ascertain whether they were doing something 13 right or wrong? 14 A 

### Well, sir, I can't attest to what the 15 conversation took place between yourself and Mr. 16 

### Ference. But I would believe that he would have 17 referred you to me, the principal. 18 I knew nothing of any reaching out, 19 that your company did, until this matter was 20 brought to you. 21 Q 

### Did Mr. Ference reach out to you, at 22 all, to discuss

--

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com82 1 A Not that I recall. 2 Q Okay, thank you. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let's see, okay. 4 Mister
-- is it Soudas? 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you very much 7 for your testimony. 8 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It appears to be 10 complete. 11 If you leave all the exhibits up on 12 the witness chair, that would be great. 13 THE WITNESS: Sure, ma'am. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And you are, hereby, 15 excused. 16 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It is 10:15 and it 18 looks like it is a perfect time to take a quick 19 break, for about ten minutes. 20 So why don't we have everybody return 21 to the courtroom at 10:25, and we can get 22 started, again, with the FAA's second witness?

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1 We are off the record, and adjourned 2 for ten minutes. 3 (Whereupon, the above-entitledmatter 4 went off the record at 10:15 a.m. and 5 went back on the record at 10:30 a.m.) 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. We are back on 7 the record in the matter of Endless Mountains 8 Air, Inc., docket number FAA-2013-0848. 9 We have reconvened after a brief 10 mornlng recess. All parties, previously 11 identified, have returned to the courtroom, and 12 counsel and Mr. Dobitsch are re- seated at counsel 13 table. 14 When we broke for our morning recess 15 the FAA had finished presenting its first 16 witness. 17 Mr. Berman, are you prepared to 18 present any more testimony? 19 20 21 call next? 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. BERMAN: Yes. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Who would you like to
MR. BERMAN: The Agency calls Robert
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### 1 Ference. 2 Whereupon, 3 ROBERT FERENCE 4 was called as a witness by Counsel for the 5 Complainant and, having been duly sworn, assumed 6 the witness stand was examined and testified as 7 follows: 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Please take a seat. 9 When you are comfortable, please state your name 10 and spell your last name for the record. 11 

### THE WITNESS: Sure. My name is Robert 12 Ference, F-E-R-E-N-C-E. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Counsel, 14 you may enquire. 15 DIRECT EXAMINATION 16 BY MR. BERMAN: 17 Q 

### Mr. Ference, what is your occupation? 18 A 

### I'm a principal operations inspector 19 for the Federal Aviation Administration. 20 Q 

### 21 A 

### 22 Q

(202) 234-4433 

### Which facility? Allentown, Pennsylvania. And for how long have you been this?
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### 85
1 A 

### For 18 years. 2 Q 

### And have you ever had any dealings 3 with Endless Mountains Air? 4 A 

### I have. 5 Q 

### In what capacity? 6 A 

### I was their principal operations 7 

### inspector, prior to Inspector Soudas taking over 8 

### as a principal operations inspector for Endless 9 

### Mountains Air. 10 Q 

### And was that in

-- 11 A 

### That was prior to, I think, 2010 or 12 2011' I'm really not sure on that, that 13 particular date. 14 Q 

### Did you ever have any discussionswith 15 Endless Mountains Air about their understanding 16 of the requirements under 135.293, 297, and 299? 17 A 

### Yes, I did, make an enquiry in regard 18 to the forms, of when the checks were done. At 19 that time I did tell them that, without having 20 the documentation in front of me, I couldn't 21 really speak to the pertinent information that 22 they were looking to ascertain.

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1 Q When did this conversationtake place? 2 A It was, I recollect, I think it was in 3 January. 4 Q Of? 5 A Of 20 I would have to look at, 6 2011, I think it was in that time, sir. 7 Q Was it around the time frame of these 8 violations we have been 9 A Yes, sir. 10 Q -- discussing today? 11 A Yes, sir, it was. 12 Q And you said that you need to see 13 their documentation, is that your testimony? 14 A That is correct, sir. 15 Q And did they produce their 16 A No, they didn't 17 Q Excuse me. 18 A Sorry. 19 Q Did they produce their documentation 20 that you requested? 21 A 22 Q

(202) 234-4433 No, sir, they did not. Did they ever get back to you after
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### 1 that? 2 A 

### No, it was one phone call that they 3 

### placed to us. 4 

### MR. BERMAN: I have no further 5 

### questions. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. 7 Dobitsch, do you have any cross-examination? 8 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I do, Your Honor. 9 

### CROSS-EXAMINATION 10 

### BY MR. DOBITSCH: 11 Q 

### Mr. Ference, on August 29th of 2011, 12 that was the date, I believe, that Mr. Palmer had 13 given you a call and a question regarding these 14 airmen competencyand proficiencychecks, is that 15 correct? 16 A 

### I don't recollect that date. But if 17 that is the date that you are stating, I would 18 agree to it. 19 Q 

### Okay. We know that the conversation 20 

### had taken place between you two. And did you 21 provide any guidance to Mr. Palmer? 22 A 

### Without having the documentation, ln

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### 88 1 front of me, I couldn't provide Mr. Palmer with 2 any documentation that I would, basically, want 3 to give him any type of false information, 4 without discussing that, with the principal 5 operations inspector, nor seeing the 8410s as 6 issued to Mr. Palmer. 7 Q 

### Does the FSDO keep copies of the 8 A 

### We do keep a copy, okay? What is 9 provided to the operator, at the time of the 10 check ride, is we provide that operator with two 11 copies. One for his records, and one for the 12 operator's records. 13 

### That is something that the pilot 14 should present back to the operator, for the 15 operator's records, and the pilot's records 16 himself. 17 Q 

### 18 copy? 19 A 20 Q 

### 21 A 

### 22 Q

(202) 234-4433 

### Okay. But the FSDO does not keep a
We do keep a copy. You do keep a copy? We do keep a copy, yes, sir. Okay. Is that copy accessible to you?
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### 1 A 

### It is accessible. We do keep, what do 2 you call it, records for the operator. 3 Q 

### Was there any particular reason why 4 

### you didn't go get that copy to -- 5 A 

### We have a copy present. 6 Q 

### So you did have the copy present, 7 during your conversation? 8 A 

### We have a copy. But, in order to 9 compare copies, we would want to ascertain that 10 the copies that I have, match what the operator 11 has. 12 Q 

### Did you ask Mr. Palmer to send you a 13 copy? 14 A 

### I asked Mr. Palmer to present copies. 15 Q 

### And
-- okay. So when he looked for 16 guidance, when he asked for guidance, you did not 17 provide any guidance because, what you are 18 saying, is that he did not produce
-- 19 A 

### No, sir, what I did say is that I did 20 provide him with guidance saying to bring his 21 coples down to the FSDO, so that we compare his 22 copies with our copies, that we have on file.

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com90 1 Q Is that a cus,tomaryway of handling an 2 enquiry? 3 A Absolutely. 4 Q That the pilot would have to bring 5 down the copy that he has? 6 A Absolutely. 7 Q Would it have been possible for you to 8 compare copies over the telephone, during the 9 conversation? 10 A Without seeing the copies, in 11 question, to make sure that what is checked on 12 the copy that we have, in our presence, I would 13 not make any type of determination. 14 Q In the normal course of a charter, 15 actually, just aviation in general, and a charter 16 operator, is there a certain level of trust given 17 to the operators and pilots? 18 A We try to deal with a trust between 19 the principals and the charter operators, 20 absolutely. 21 Q Now, lS there a particularreason why, 22 it appears to me there is a particular, there

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1 

### seems to be a lack of trust, in this particular 2 case, where a pilot, or a charter operator, would 3 call you up and ask for some guidance, based on a 4 

### form that he has in front of him. 5 

### That it appears that the FSDO also has 6 

### in front of them. Why, in this case, would there 7 

### be a lack of trust, that the form that you have, 8 

### would have in your possession, is different than 9 

### the form, that the pilot, or the charter operator 10 

### would have? 11 

### A I 

### would say it was never a lack of 12 

### trust. I 

### think what we look at is to make sure 13 

### that the comparison of copies, that we are 14 

### looking at, is what we have in front of us, as 15 

### the operators looking through them. 16 

### As you look at the 84-30 

### form, there 17 

### are different checks, different places, to 18 annotate different types of checks. 19 So what we are looking at is the form 20 to match exactly what we are looking at, so that 21 

### we could provide that operator with the correct 22 guidance.

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1 Q But if you needed the operator to send 2 you the form, before you would want to give any 3 kind of guidance, that would imply, to me, a lack 4 of trust. 5 A No, sir. It is just basically looking 6 at the same type of documentation, that you have 7 in front of you, that we are comparing item for 8 i tern. 9 Q Is there any reason why, during that 10 phone conversation, you could not have compared 11 item for item, with the form in front of you, to 12 say, these boxes are checked on my form, and this 13 box isn't? 14 A With different principal operations 15 inspectors, possibly conducting different rides, 16 I like to look at the forms to look at the 17 comparison, prior to making any statement. 18 MR. DOBITSCH: No further questions. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. 20 Berman, do you have any redirect? 21 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. BERMAN: No, I don't. JUDGE SULLIVAN: I have a question or
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com93 1 two, for you, sir. 2 THE WITNESS: Sure. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: As I understand it, 4 you were not the principal officer for the 5 Respondent at the time that you received the 6 phone call? 7 THE WITNESS: Yes, ma'am. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And is it typical, in 9 your office, to basically rotate phone calls 10 between the inspectors, so that you meet the 11 needs of your constituents, or do you refer phone 12 calls to the inspector that is assigned to the 13 charter operator? 14 THE WITNESS: We try to accommodate 15 calls as they are presenting to us. If there is 16 a challenging call, that comes in, dealing with a 17 specific aspect of what the 135 operator is 18 asking, we try to refer that to the principal 19 operations inspector, at the time. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Was this matter 21 referred, by you, to Inspector Soudas? 22

(202) 234-4433 THE WITNESS: I cannot recollect if I
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1 did mention that to Mr. Soudas, or not. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If there was a 3 question, in your mind, about the paperwork that 4 was in your office being concurrent with the 5 paperwork that Mr. Dobitsch, and Mr. Palmer had 6 in their hands, why would you not have simply 7 asked them to fax the copy of their paperwork, to 8 you, so that you had both in front of you at the 9 same time? 10 THE WITNESS: I did ask them to 11 present it, Your Honor. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you asked 13 them to present it, did that offer include having 14 a fax sent to you, or -- 15 THE WITNESS: I did not mention any 16 type of fax at that particular time. I did offer 17 them the opportunity to present what 18 documentation they have. 19 20 21 22 the
--

(202) 234-4433 May I make a statement, too? JUDGE SULLIVAN: No. THE WITNESS: At the time when we do

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1 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm going to stop 2 you. You asked me for a ruling on whether or not 3 you can make a statement. 4 What kind of statement do youwish to 5 6 

### THE WITNESS: Just that when we 7 provide the 84-30 form, which is a check ride 8 form, we basically make three copies. One we 9 

### keep, and we provide two to the operator, one for 10 the pilot record, and one for the operator. 11 

### What the pilot does with those 12 particular 8430s, afterwards, we have no idea. 13 

### That is why we basically look at the fact that we 14 are looking at, and presentingthe documentation, 15 and comparing item for item. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you, also, do any 17 kind of business, or guidance advice via email, 18 email, fax, in person obviously, or alternate 19 methods of presentation of paperwork? 20 21 that. 22

(202) 234·4433 

### THE WITNESS: Sure, we would look at
JUDGE SULLIVAN: Did you make notes,
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com96 1 of any kind, regarding this phone call? 2 THE WITNESS: No, I did not. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. 4 Berman, do you have any sur direct of this 5 witness? 6 MR. BERMAN: No, I don't. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, any sur 8 cross? 9 MR. DOBITSCH: I do not. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Tell me, again 11 sir, how to pronounce your last name? 12 THE WITNESS: Ference. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Ference. 14 THE WITNESS: Ference, yes. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Ference, 16 thank you very much for your testimony. 17 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honor. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It appears to be 19 complete, you are excused. 20 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman, do you 22 have any other witnesses, or exhibits, that you

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com97 1 would like to present? 2 MR. BERMAN: No, I don't. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is the FAA resting at 4 this time? 5 MR. BERMAN: Yes, I would just like to 6 make sure. I don't remember if all my exhibits 7 were offered and accepted into evidence. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I can tell you that 9 exhibits C-2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, and 9, were all 10 discussed, offered, and admitted. 11 MR. BERMAN: All right. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And C-1 and C-6 were 13 not discussed or offered. 14 MR. BERMAN: The Agency rests. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Dobitsch, 16 the Agency has rested. At this point you have an 17 opportunity, if you would so like, to make an 18 opening statement. 19 If you don't want to make an opening 20 statement, that is fine. You still have an 21 opportunity to make a closing argument. 22 Do you wish to make an opening at this

(202) 234A433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com98 1 time? 2 MR. DOBITSCH: At this time, no. No, 3 thank you, Your Honor. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have evidence 5 that you would like to present? And, if so, who 6 is the first witness that you are planning to 7 call? 8 MR. DOBITSCH: My first witness would 9 be
-- well, my only witness would be Mr. Randy 10 Palmer. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, as I understand 12 it, you are going to be testifying as well, with 13 a narrative. 14 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I hope
-- 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So there are 16 MR. DOBITSCH: Sorry. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN:
-- two witnesses. 18 So Mr. Palmer, do you wish to call Mr. 19 Palmer, now, to the stand? 20 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I do. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Palmer, if you 22 would come over to the witness box and, before

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### 99
1 

### you are seated, I will swear you in. 2 Whereupon, 3 

### RANDY PALMER 4 

### was called as a witness by Counsel for the 5 

### Respondent and, having been duly sworn, assumed 6 

### the witness stand was examined and testified as 7 

### follows: 8 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Please take a seat. 9 

### When you are comfortable please state your name, 10 

### and spell your last name for the record. 11 

### THE WITNESS: Randy Palmer, P-A-L-M-E12 R. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. 14 

### Dobitsch, you may enquire. 15 

### DIRECT EXAMINATION 16 

### BY MR. DOBITSCH: 17 Q 

### Mr. Palmer, how long have you been a 18 

### commercial pilot? 19 A 

### Since 1996, 19 years. 20 Q 

### How many, can you give me an 21 

### approximation of how many hours you have been 22 flying, total?

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### 100 1 A 

### In excess of 15,000 hours. 2 Q 

### Can you give me an idea about how many 3 competency, airmen competencychecks for charter, 4 that you have done in your career? 5 A 

### I have been charteringabout 14 years. 6 

### So I'm going to say two a year. So 24 or 25, 7 something like that, give or take one or two. 8 Q 

### Have you had these rides with
-- how 9 many different examiners, during those years -- 10 A 

### Ten, at least ten, over the years 11 different examiners. 12 Q 

### And after most of these check rides, 13 after these check rides, have you ever had any 14 

### comments, or from 15 A 

### Always positive. I 

### have never 16 received any negative, other than some times a 17 little bit of advice, something I could have done 18 a little bit differently, during the flight 19 portion. 20 

### However, as a general rule, always 21 positive comments, like a great pilot, it has 22 been a pleasure to fly with you, again. Always

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### 1 positive. 2 Q 

### Would you say that the oral and check 3 rides were thorough? 4 A 

### As a general rule, for themost part, 5 

### they are. However, I would like to state, for 6 the record, that there have been times when orals 7 have been completely missed. 8 And I would also like to state, on the 9 record, that there have been times, during flight 10 portions of the check rides, that I have been ll asked to do things that have nothing to do with 12 determining my competency, or proficiency. 13 Q 

### Can you give me an example? 14 A 

### An example would be, I can remember a 15 flight test, not too long ago, that I was asked 16 not to wear my foggles, which is the device that 17 we wear to simulate instrument conditions, while 18 we are being checked to fly in instrument weather 19 conditions. 20 And I was told to take them off, to 21 help the examiner look for traffic. 22 Q

(202) 234-4433 

### Okay. During these 24, 25 plus check
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### 1 rides you have had, during your career, have you 2 ever had an unsatisfactory check ride? 3 A 

### I have had three. 4 Q 

### And can you tell me who the examiner 5 was? 6 A 

### Yes, Mr. Harry Soudas. 7 Q 

### When you I would like to touch, 8 again, on the August 29th conversation with Mr. 9 Ference. When you did speak to him, asking him 10 for guidance, did Mr. Ference give you any 11 guidance? 12 MR. BERMAN: Objection, leading, and 13 assumes facts that

-- well, leading question. 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. There has been 15 a leading objection. Do you have a response? Do 16 you know what that means? 17 

### MR. DOBITSCH: No, I do not, Your 18 Honor. 19 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: In short, there are 20 

### two different ways to examine a witness. There 21 is the direct examination, which you are in now, 22 and there is cross-examination, which Mr. Berman

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### 103
1 

### will pick up in a few moments. 2 

### In direct examination it is, usually, 3 open-ended questions like who, what, where, why, 4 

### that allows the witness to blossom. 5 

### In cross-examination it is a pointed 6 

### question, such as, do you remember on the night 7 

### of February 25th, that you were at a bar, 8 

### Harry's, at 8 

### a.m.? It is almost putting words 9 

### ln someone's mouth. 10 So with a leading objection, Mr. 11 

### Berman is saying that you crossed over into, 12 

### glvlng this witness way too much information, 13 before he lS allowed to answer. 14 

### So I will sustain the objection, at 15 this point. But I will note that there is, 16 

### already, testimony in the record, that a 17 

### conversation occurred on or about August 29th, 18 

### 2011, between Mr. Ference and Mr. Palmer. 19 That has been introduced into the 20 record by the FAA, during its direct case. 21 22 

### you have

(202) 234-4433 

### So what questions, Mr. Dobitsch, do of this witness regarding that
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### 104 1 conversation? 2 BY MR. DOBITSCH: 3 Q 

### During that conversation did Mr. 4 Ference give you any guidance as to whether a 5 

### 293, 299 check ride was required of you? 6 A 

### No, he did not. 7 Q 

### Did Mr. Ference ask you, regardingthe 8 8710-3 form, which is the airmen competency form, 9 

### did he ask you to fax, or produce for him, our 10 copy of the form 11 A 

### No. 12 Q 

### for the check ride back on April 13 18th of 2011? 14 A 

### No, he did not. 15 Q 

### What did Mr. Ference say to you? 16 A 

### Mr. Ference clearly stated, to me, you 17 need to check your paperwork, leaving it up to me 18 to try and interpret my dilemma, on my own. 19 Q 

### Was there anything, additional, that 20 Mr. Ference said to you? 21 A 22 Q

(202) 234-4433 

### No. From your many check rides that you
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1 

### have taken, over the years, have you ever been 2 asked by an examiner, about the regulations 3 135.293, 297, 

### or 299? 4 A 

### No. 5 Q 

### You have never been asked a question 6 

### regarding those? 7 A 

### No. 8 Q 

### Or their application? 9 A 

### No. 10 Q 

### Have they ever asked you when your 11 

### next check ride was? 12 A 

### No. 13 Q 

### So
-- 14 

### A They usually finish with, we will see 15 you again in six months. 16 Q 

### Okay. Regarding the 2 9 3 and 2 97, 17 check rides, or any check ride, do you ever 18 prepare differently for any, for either of them? 19 A 

### Never had. Can't differentiate 20 between one from another. 21 Q 

### So when you go, approximately, every 22 six months when you go for a check ride, both

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com106 1 checks, whether it is a 293 or a 297, you do not 2 differentiate between either of them? 3 A I have never been able to tell the 4 difference. 5 Q Do you remember, after your 6 conversation with Mr. Ference, and his lack of 7 guidance, where he had said to check your 8 paperwork; do you remember you and I going over 9 the regulations, to see whether or not you were 10 legal to fly? 11 MR. BERMAN: Objection, he used the 12 term lack of guidance. Again, it is leading and

- 13 14 THE WITNESS: It should be no 15 guidance. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: This is not part of 17 your testimony. 18 MR. BERMAN: It lS argumentative. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: There has been an 20 objecti= on the grounds of leading, and 21 argumentative, to the question. 22

(202) 234-4433 I will sustain both. The question is
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### 107
1 

### struck. Whatever testimony and statement that 2 Mr. Palmer started to say is struck, and you are 3 welcome to try and redesign that question. 4 

### Thank you, Mr. Dobitsch. 5 BY MR. DOBITSCH: 6 Q 

### After speaking with Mr. Ference, on 7 the 29th of August 2011, did you and I consult 8 your past 87-10 forms, and the FARs, to see 9 whether or not you were legal to fly? 10 A 

### Yes, we did. 11 Q 

### And what did we what was our 12 interpretation? 13 A 

### Our interpretation was that our 14 currency would remain for another three months. 15 Q 

### On section 135.293C, the section says, 16 the instrument proficiency check required by 17 135.297 may be substituted for the competency 18 check required by the section, for the type of 19 aircraft used in the check. 20 Do you recall us going over that? 21 A 

### Absolutely. 22 Q 

### And do you recall us, at that time,

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-- that 5 you would be able to fly legally? 6 A I do. 7 MR. DOBITSCH: No further questions, 8 Your Honor. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. 10 Berman, do you have cross-examination of this 11 witness? 12 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 13 CROSS-EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. BERMAN: 15 Q Mr. Palmer, you were referred to the 16 forms 8710-3, what is that, what is form 8710-3? 17 A 18 Q 19 A 20 Q 21 not the 22 A

(202) 234-4433 What is it? Yes. That is the flight check form. Are you sure? Are you sure you are correct number is not 8410-3? What are you asking me, again?
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1 Q There has been evidence, introduced 2 into the hearing, of forms 8410-3. Is that what 3 you are referring to, 8410-3s, as opposed to 4 8710-3s? 5 A Possibly. 6 Q You are not sure? 7 A I am not sure. 8 Q You are not sure? 9 A No. 10 Q So when you were referred before, to 11 8710-3, it is possible you were referring to 12 8410-3s? 13 A Possible. 14 Q But you are not sure? 15 A No. 16 Q So are you sure which documents you 17 referred to, when you went over these with Mr. 18 Dobitsch? 19 A I'm talking about a specific 20 regulation that states that one can be 21 substituted for the other. 22 Q But you are not sure, at this point,

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### 1 what the number is? 2 A No. 3 Q 

### Are you sure which documents he went 4 over? 5 A Absolutely. I can walk right to it and 6 show it. But I don't know the number, if that is 7 

### what you are asking me. 8 Q 

### You mentioned, before, that you don't 9 differentiate between 135.293 and 135.297, is 10 that correct? 11 A 

### I stated that I can't, I have never 12 been able to differentiate between the physical 13 oral questioning, or flight check, of those two 14 different tests. 15 Q 

### So as far as you are concerned if you 16 

### satisfy one you satisfy the other? If you 17 satisfy 135.2 18 A 

### In all practicality, yes, that is 19 

### correct. Because the flight tests are exactly 20 the same. 21 Q 

### You testified before that when Mr. 22 Ference, in your words, he left you on your own

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1 

### as to interpret whether, to interpret the 2 regulations as far as your currency requirements, 3 lS that correct? 4 A 

### Yes, sir. 5 Q 

### And after you had this conversation 6 with him, and this is on August 29th, 2011? 7 A 

### Yes, Slr. 8 Q 

### Did you make any attempts to get 9 further clarification from anybody else at the 10 Allentown FSDO. 11 A 

### No. And can I ask why I would? If I 12 can't go to my FSDO, and request guidance when I 13 am confused with a regulation, and I'm not given 14 any -- who else would I call, another inspector 15 and say, hey? 16 Mr. Ference was the actual manager, I 17 think, ln addition to the inspector down there, 18 and that is why I went directly to him, thinking 19 that would be the best person to give the advice. 20 Q 

### So you felt that he was -- it was your 21 impression he was the manager of the FSDO? 22 A

(202) 234-4433 

### Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.• N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com112 1 Q Did you know that for sure? 2 A He acted like a manager. Every time 3 I would call down, to ask anything about 4 anything, it was always referred to Mr. Ference. 5 So we all assumed that he was, sort of, the 6 manager ln addition to a flight inspector. 7 Q So you felt there was nobody else you 8 could ask, is that your testimony? 9 A Correct. Mr. Ference had been my 10 inspector, previous to Harry, and Harry and I had 11 had a personal situation, going on, with failed 12 check rides, and things. 13 And I felt that Mr. Ference would be 14 more appropriate, as a neutral party, to call and 15 get an answer to the interpretation of a 16 regulation, that I wasn't clear on. Simple as 17 that. 18 Q So that is the reason you didn't ask 19 Mr. Soudas? 20 A Pardon me? 21 Q And that is the reason you didn't ask 22 Mr. Soudas?

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com113 1 A Absolutely. 2 MR. BERMAN: I have no further 3 questions. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. 5 Dobitsch, do you have any redirect? 6 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I do. 7 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. DOBITSCH: 9 Q Mr. Palmer, would you, at the time you 10 spoke to Mr. Ference, were you aware of him 11 having a good deal more experience than Mr. 12 Soudas? 13 A Without question. 14 Q Would that have been a reason why, 15 also a reason why you would have spoken to him? 16 A Absolutely. 17 MR. BERMAN: Objection, leading. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The objection is 19 leading. 20 MR. DOBITSCH: I restated that. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, Mr. Palmer, you 22 don't want to jump in like that, I will have to

(202) 234A433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE , N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com114 1 strike that comment from you. 2 When I hear an objection I have to 3 make a ruling. And, unfortunately, I can't ask 4 anyone for help. 5 So your objection lS noted, it lS 6 respectfully sustained, the answer is stricken. 7 You will have to ask this witness a little more 8 open-ended question about what his thoughts and 9 feelings were, instead of telling him what you 10 think they were. 11 Mr. Dobitsch, would you like to try 12 again? 13 MR. DOBITSCH: Thank you, Your Honor. 14 BY MR. DOBITSCH: 15 Q When you did speak to Mr. Ference, at 16 that time, did you feel that you would be getting 17 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I'm golng to 19 stop you. I think the better question is why, 20 why did Mr. Ference why was Mr. Ference 21 preferred? 22 And then this witness can tell us why.

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1 MR. DOBITSCH: Thank you, Your Honor. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you could ask a 3 why question, that would be helpful. 4 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 5 BY MR. DOBITSCH: 6 Q Mr. Palmer, why would you have spoken 7 to Mr. Ference, to get a yes or no answer, on 8 whether or not you were able to fly? 9 A At the time, and I still feel this 10 way, and that is a factor of trust. I still, to 11 this day, feel that I can call Mr. Bob Ference, 12 and get an honest answer that is intelligent, and 13 knowledgeable. 14 And that was the reason that I pursued 15 him for advice, as opposed to Mr. Soudas. 16 MR. DOBITSCH: No further questions, 17 Your Honor. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. I have a 19 couple of questions. And, again, I will let 20 counsel and Mr. Dobitsch follow-up if they so 21 choose. 22

(202)234-4433 You indicated, in
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### 1 testimonyearlier this morning, that you have had 2 three unsatisfactory check rides, all of which 3 have been reviewed, and given to you, by 4 inspector Soudas. 5 

### THE WITNESS: Correct. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you remember that 7 testimony? 8 

### THE WITNESS: Yes. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Have those all been 10 within that 2010, 2011 period that we are talking 11 about? 12 THE WITNESS: It was three in a row. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And prior to that 14 time, in your 19 years or so, of piloting, had 15 you had any other such experience? 16 

### THE WITNESS: Never. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: You indicated, ln 18 your testimony, that you had a problem with Mr. 19 

### Soudas. Can you explain what that problem is, 20 and why you thought it was relevant to the choice 21 you made in calling Mr. Ference? 22

(202) 234-4433 

### THE WITNESS: Yes. Mr. Soudas, as my
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1 

### new principal operating inspector, was charged 2 

### with testing my currency/proficiency levels, to 3 maintain my currency as a charter pilot. 4 

### And three flight tests in a row he 5 

### found me unsatisfactory. And, after the second 6 

### one, I 

### tried to find out why. And the third one, 7 I 

### continued to try and find out why. 8 

### And, to this day, no one has been able 9 

### to come to me, and tell me, and explain to me why 10 I 

### was found unsatisfactory. 11 

### And the reason I'm stating it like 12 this is that, as a pilot with my experience, if 13 

### somebody tells me that I'm not doing something as 14 

### safely as it could be done, I 

### would expect them 15 

### to show me some guidelines that show, here are 16 

### the standards, or here is something that you can 17 

### do differently. 18 

### So that I 

### know enough to go get some 19 

### training, and do it correctly. When I 

### come away 20 

### from a check ride, and I 

### don't understandwhat it 21 is that I have done, then I have a problem with 22 that person that is telling me

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### that I'm

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1 

### unsatisfactory. 2 

### And that is why I did not want to 3 communicate with Mr. Soudas any longer. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: In terms of the use 5 

### that you testified to, about your examination of 6 14CFR 

### Section 135.293, 

### as I understand it, you 7 

### and Mr. Dobitsch looked at that regulation. 8 

### And you found, under subsection C, 

### as 9 

### in cat, a statement saying that the instrument 10 

### proficiency check, required by 135.297 

### could be 11 

### substituted for the competency check required by 12 293. 13 

### Is that your testimony? 14 

### THE WITNESS: Yes. 15 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 16 

### THE WITNESS: Well, in part. 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Andwhat is the rest 18 

### of
-- 19 

### THE WITNESS: There is another piece 20 

### of it. In addition to that information, Mr. 21 

### Dobitsch and I were looking at the last flight 22 

### test paperwork. And they had checked the

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1 autopilot box on it, which is one of the main 2 things done in that baseline currency check. 3 And the word re-established had been 4 written on it. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So you have the 6 exhibits at the witness chair, ln front of you, 7 do you? So you are referring the Court to 8 THE WITNESS: The April 18thperformed 9 by Mr. Ference. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And that is exhibit 11 C-8? 12 THE WITNESS: Exhibit just A. It is l3 just a regular flight test form. This is what 14 Billy and I --Mr. Dobitsch and I referred to. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Right. But if you 16 look at the very bottom of the page, Mr. Palmer17 18 THE WITNESS: Yes, C-8, yes, Your 19 Honor. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So we are both 21 looking at exhibit C-8. 22

(202) 234-4433 THE WITNESS: Yes.
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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And the use of the 2 autopilot is listed at the bottom right-hand 3 corner of this one page document. 4 THE WITNESS: It is actually on the 5 left, satisfactory. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I see -- you 7 are looking at number 30 on the bottom? 8 THE WITNESS: That is it, yes, ma'am. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The left-hand side? 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then, on the 12 bottom right-hand side, under airman competency 13 information, use of autopilot, there is nothing 14 listed? 15 THE WITNESS: Correct. 16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So ln this 17 particular test, that this exhibit talks about, 18 you saw this as being, as giving you clearance 19 for how long a period? 20 21 months. 22

(202) 234-4433 THE WITNESS: For another three
JUDGE SULLIVAN: The next check date,
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### 1 the very last day, under the FAA's version. Why 2 did you call on that particular day, if you 3 thought that the check was good until November? 4 

### THE WITNESS: Well, I called on that 5 day because I wasn't sure of the expiration. I 6 wanted to know, is this my expiration, or can I 7 actually continue with my runs? 8 

### Because Mr. Dobitsch and I had been 9 talking about this, from this April check ride. 10 We really weren't clear as to what is going to 11 happen at the end of 90 days. 12 And that is why I took, I made the 13 effort to call and try to get some clarification, 14 before we went over that date, and made a 15 mistake. 16 And because I didn't get help we made 17 the wrong decision. 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Was there some reason 19 why you didn't call Mr. Ference back and asked 20 him if your interpretation was correct, or 21 incorrect? 22

(202) 234-4433 

### THE WITNESS: No, looking back I
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1 should have, I should have stayed on it. But I, 2 basically, came away from the call, when I'm told 3 to check my paperwork, you called us, you asked 4 for help. 5 Now, you go make the decision and 6 interpret the regulations on your own. So I did, 7 and I did it incorrectly. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Has that been your 9 typical experience, over the years, when you have 10 been looking for**~~** 11 THE WITNESS: Actually, no. Actually, 12 as stated earlier, over the 15 years or so, as a 13 commercial pilot, and all the charter flight 14 tests, and things, I have never had issues with 15 any FAA personnel, or any air traffic 16 controllers. 17 It is just that everything has been a 18**well~working** situation. They have always been 19 very helpful. This all started from the time 20 that Mr. Soudas came on the scene, and started 21 failing me. 22 And I was unable to communicate with

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.. N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com124 1 him. So, I mean, I don't know how else to 2 explain it, other than, when somebody does that 3 to me, and I can't resolve it with them, I have 4 to talk to somebody else. 5 And when they don't help me I'm left 6 on my own, to try and interpret these 7 regulations, and I think everybody will agree 8 that the FAA regulations are just so complex, and 9 so difficult for anybody to understand, when we 10 need help from the FAA, we should be able to call 11 and get some guidance. 12 And when we don't get it, we are left 13 with, this is the type of thing that happens. 14 That is why we admitted to our mistake. I openly 15 admit that I misinterpreted and made the error. 16 But it wasn't without first trying to 17 get some clarification. And then trying to 18 resolve it, afterwards, I might add. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is inspector Soudas 20 still your primary inspector? 21 THE WITNESS: No. Since this has 22 happened I'm sure that they have moved him around

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com125 1 ln a way that him and I don't get together any 2 more, which is unfortunate. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. 4 Berman, do you have, excuse me, Mr. Dobitsch, do 5 you have any sur direct of this witness, based on 6 the Court's enquiry? 7 MR. DOBITSCH: Your Honor, would that 8 be based on your 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Just on mine 10 MR. DOBITSCH:
-- just on your own? 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. 12 MR. DOBITSCH: In that case I don't 13 have a question. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman, do you 15 have any sur cross based on the Court's enquiry? 16 MR. BERMAN: No, I don't. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Palmer, thank you 18 very much for your testimony, it is complete, you 19 are excused. 20 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, we had 22 talk a little earlier about you doing a narrative

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-- 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Have you shown that 8 to Mr. Berman, yet? 9 MR. DOBITSCH: Not this particular 10 time line, but it is based on the previous 11 letter, I had sent to Mr. Berman. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you are going to 13 use it as testimonial assistance Mr. Berman has a 14 right to look at it first. 15 Mr. Berman, would you care to look at 16 that? 17 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. I will give 19 you a moment, in silence, to show Mr. Berman your 20 materials, and then if he has an objection, I 21 will address it at that time. 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay.
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### 127
1 

### (Pause.) 2 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, are you ready, 3 Mr. Dobitsch? 4 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Sure. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman, do you 6 have any objection to Mr. Dobitsch using this 7 time line? 8 

### MR. BERMAN: I would object to it 9 

### being offered into evidence. But I wouldn't 10 object if he uses it to refresh his recollection. 11 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. Mr. 12 Dobitsch, why don't you come on up with your 13 material, that you have in your hand. 14 

### And before you sit down I will swear 15 you in. 16 Whereupon, 17 WILLIAM J. DOBITSCH, JR. 18 was called as a witness by the Respondent and, 19 having been duly sworn, assumed the witness stand 20 was examined and testified as follows: 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Please take a seat. 22 When you are comfortable, please state your name,

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### 1 and spell your last name for the record. 2 THE WITNESS: My name is William 3 Dobitsch, D-0-B-I-T-S-C-H. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Dobitsch, it 5 lS my understanding that you have a narrative 6 statement that you would like to make. 7 And what we will do is this, we will 8 glve you whatever time you need to make your 9 narrative statement. 10 

### Mr. Berman will, then, have a chance 11 to cross-examine you, based on that statement, 12 and some of the other testimony, if he so 13 chooses. 14 I may or may not ask some questions. 15 As you can see, this morning, I have been fairly 16 active, which some times happens. 17 

### But you may proceed with your 18 narrative. 19 DIRECT EXAMINATION 20 

### THE WITNESS: I basically would just 21 like to recap, from my standpoint, the sequence 22 of events, and what has happened over here.

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANO TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHOOE ISLANOAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com129 1 As previously stated, back in July, 2 Mr. Palmer did pass an oral and flight check, 3 given by Mr. Ference for his 135.293 and 299. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what year is 5 that? 6 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry, July 7th and 7 22nd of 2010. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 9 THE WITNESS: A full year before. 10 Afterwards, on April 11th, 2011, Mr. 11 Palmer passed what we now understand to be a 12 135.297, which is already one of the exhibits ln 13 here. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That would be C-8? 15 THE WITNESS: Correct, C-8. And let me 16 correct the date, that would be April 18th of 17 2011. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. 19 THE WITNESS: Come late August Mr. 20 Palmer and I, based on the forms, were unsure as 21 Mr. Palmer had stated, as to whether or not he 22 was due a check ride.

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1 

### And I had asked Mr. Palmer to reach 2 out to Mr. Ference, who clearly has many years at 3 the FSDO, and is experienced. 4 

### Which he did. And Mr. Palmer did get 5 an answer from Mr. Ference, and the answer was, 6 as you have heard before, check your paperwork. 7 

### So just like Mr. Palmer had said, we 8 

### did check our paperwork. We looked at the 9 regulations, we looked at the 8710s, I'm sorry, 10 the 8410s, which is the airman competency check 11 

### forms, that he had previously done. 12 And we had

-- we looked at everything. 13 We decided that we were good. That he could fly 14 for another three months, you know, at the most. 15 

### And, of course, as we know, we made 16 these flights, the six flights that were made 17 during the period afterwards. 18 Mr. Soudas then of course, I guess it 19 was ln December, I was thinking it was November 20 when he had come for an inspection, customary 21 inspection. 22 And I presented all the paperwork at

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### 131
1 

### that time. I 

### keep a box with all the paperwork. 2 And I 

### presented it to Mr. Soudas, and he went and 3 

### took a look at it. 4 

### And, you know, he had found that we 5 

### had made these six flights, during this period. 6 

### And, of course, he got copies, made sure he had 7 copies of Mr. Palmer's 8410 form, also. 8 

### He asked me for the information, I 9 

### gave it to him. Shortly thereafterwe had gotten 10 

### a letter from the FSDO, and they had, they 11 

### requested a conference to go over these alleged 12 

### violations, at that time. 13 

### And we immediately set up an 14 

### appointment, and we had our conference. And with 15 Mr. Soudas, Mr. Ference, and another gentleman, 16 Brandon was there. 17 But I believe at that time he was new to the 18 Agency. 19 And they explained the regulations to 20 us and how we had, in effect, messed up. And in 21 

### the subsequent letter I did, you know, admit 22 that, you know, we did make a mistake.

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### 1 Althoughwe did, also, make an attempt 2 with a senior person at the Agency, to get an 3 answer. All we wanted was a yes or no. 4 

### If we had gotten a no, fine, we don't 5 fly. 

### We schedule Mr. Palmer for a ride. We 6 

### didn't just get a no. And there is really no 7 reason for either of us think that we would have 8 

### to go to multiple parties, at the FSDO, 9 absolutely not. 10 So, really, from our standpoint all of 11 this could have been avoided, had we just gotten 12 a yes or no answer. 13 

### And I would have thought that us 14 having asked this question, the FSDO would have 15 been responsive to it. 16 Because, obviously, the FAA
-- and it 17 lS, 

### it lS 

### a safety related issue. And that lS 18 

### what we are all in this game for. We are in for 19 safety, we want to make sure that our passengers, 20 our pilots, can operate safely. 21 So, based on that, what I would say 22 lack of information, or no information, we made a

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### 1 decision. And, ln hindsight, it was the wrong 2 decision. 3 

### And another big point was, at that 4 

### time, I remember I said, this isn't

-- it won't 5 

### happen agaln. We won't make this mistake again. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And when you say at 7 that time, are you talking about the conference 8 that you had? 9 

### THE WITNESS: The conference, exactly. 10 

### Shortly thereafter, of course, Mr. 11 

### Palmer got a letter. He was originally 12 sanctioned, they were requesting to pull his 13 

### commercial ticket for six months. Which he did, 14 with an attorney's help, get that reduced to two 15 months. 16 

### And, myself, just because I can't 17 

### afford an attorney, basically working on a 18 shoestring, on my business, I had an attorney at 19 

### first. But one meeting with Mr. Berman and it 20 was over 3,000 dollars. 21 22 And I, you know, in all honesty I choked, I couldn' t believe it.

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### And I'm not

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### 1 surprised, I guess, but and, of course, I had 2 this 46,200 dollar fine to have to contend with, 3 potential fine. 4 

### And there is no way I will be able to 5 

### pay. I mean, I just don't have actually, I 6 probably shouldn't even mention it. 7 Mr. Berman had sent me, the other day, 8 additional forms, maybe we could work out, it was 9 a questionnaire as to trying to get more 10 financial information from me, so that maybe we 11 could work out some kind of a settlement. 12 And one of the questions was, how much 13 do you have in your checking account, currently? 14 So I just went on-line to look at my checking 15 account, and I don't know if he even looked at 16 it, but it was 15 dollars and 89 cents, and that 17 is the truth. 18 So, anyway, and of course we did, you 19 know, to try to resolve this, we did have an 20 option for an informal conference which, myself 21 and my attorney, at that time Geoff Orlandi, we 22 did meet with Mr. Berman.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 WWIN.nealrgross.com135 1 We tried to, you know, explainmy side 2 of the story, basically. And tried to come up 3 with some kind of, you know, I really want to 4 just put this past me, so that we can just 5 continue, both Mr. Palmer and I. 6 And we, at that time, we could not. 7 I mean, I made an offer which was, you know, 8 substantiallyless than the 46,200. And that was 9 not accepted. 10 And, periodically, Mr. Berman and I 11 have spoken. I can say two to three times, at 12 least. Even recently, in the past week, week and 13 ahalf. 14 And the FAA is looking for, basically, 15 20,000 dollars plus which, you know, I cannot do 16 anything. You know, I can't. My last offer was 17 2,500 dollars, and I will make payments over five 18 months of 500 dollars, just to -- 19 But it clearly isn't enough, you know, 20 for whatever

-- Mr. Berman is doing his job. 21 And as I had stated, earlier, it
-- I 22 looked to give some additional tax returns, but I

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### 1 just don't have them right now. And, believe me, 2 

### I don't feel good about it. 3 

### Although I do feel good that, at 4 

### least, I have paid my accountant off and I will 5 be able to get myself, in the next -- probably in 6 the next year, get myself back to square one, or 7 at least I'm where I should be. 8 

### So my extenuatin:r circumstances, I 9 guess if I could call them that, at that time Mr. 10 Palmer and I did not take this lightly at all. 11 We did talk it over, we looked at the 12 regulations, and we made a decision, based on the 13 regulations and the forms, that we were okay to 14 

### fly for a couple more months. 15 We did try to get some guidance and we 16 did not get the guidance we were hoping for. 17 Clearly these violations were not intentional. 18 If they were intentional there is no 19 way I would have put paperwork, records of six 20 

### flights made, ln September and October. Why 21 would I do that? Why would I incriminatemyself? 22

(202) 234-4433 

### And, in all reality, there is no way
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### 1 that the FAA could likely even find out about it, 2 if I had made deleted charter flights. 3 

### I mean, I thought we were legal. 4 

### Otherwise I 

### would not have produced that 5 paperwork to Mr. Soudas. 6 Once again, Mr. Palmer and I, prior to 7 

### this, we have no enforcements, no violations, we 8 

### have clean records. We make it a point to do 9 things the right way. 10 

### We want to stay legal. We want to be 11 safe. I don't have the form, it is on my desk. 12 But there was even the FAA' s report, that I 13 believe Gene McCoy had signed, before it worked 14 

### its way back up to the Jamaica, New York, to the 15 original office. 16 

### They said, we have been cooperative, 17 

### and we have no prior violations. I have 18 

### expressed remorse, and this would make it 19 inadvertent. 20 And I want to stress that, at no time, 21 did we operate unsafely. Back in April Mr. Palmer 22 had a, what is now, we are asserting is a 297

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### 1 ride. 2 Mr. Palmer has said, every ride he 3 takes is the same. He gets checked, he will get 4 

### an oral, he cannot discern a differencebetween a 5 2 9 3 

### and a 2 9 7 . 6 

### So was Mr. Palmer proficient? 7 

### Absolutely. So in closing I would say that this 8 is a technical error, nothing more. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what does that 10 

### mean to you, sir? What does a technical error 11 mean to you, please? 12 

### THE WITNESS: A technical error would 13 mean we did not properly consider the boxes 14 checked off, and the information written on that 15 8410. 

### 16 And, also, our interpretation of the 17 regulations were in error. 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is there anything 19 else you want to say? 20 

### THE WITNESS: Yes, if that lS 

### okay. 21 

### Once, of course, I don't well, I do 22 have some proof. But just to show how difficult

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### 140
1 

### full-time job at a local veterinary hospital. 2 

### So, at least, I can get a paycheck. I 3 

### mean, I have bills to pay personally. And I have 4 

### previously mentioned, I think at the beginning, 5 

### that the reason I don't have my tax returns is 6 

### because I just recently, finally, cleared up 7 after a number of years, a 15,000 dollar bill 8 

### with my accountant. 9 

### So this, to me, seems extremelyheavy10 

### handed. And, really, has made it difficult, if 11 

### not impossible, to stay in business. 12 

### One of the things I would like to 13 

### read, put on the record, is something that I had 14 

### sent, I believe, to Mr. Berman and yourself, 15 

### early on. 16 

### It was a little article writtenby, at 17 

### the time this was happening, all of this, my 18 

### whole case, was an article written by John Allen 19 

### who was the director of the FSDOs. 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: This is the proposed 21 

### Exhibit D? 22

(202) 234-4433 

### THE WITNESS: That
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### is correct,

www.nealrgross.com141 1 proposed Exhibit D. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Instead of reading 3 it, essentially what we typically would do, is 4 move for admission of that exhibit. And then the 5 Court reads it to itself. 6 And you can point out certain things 7 ln it, but you don't need to read it to the 8 Court. 9 THE WITNESS: Okay. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So are you moving for 11 admission of Exhibit D? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, I would like to 13 move to enter Exhibit D into the record. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Berman, do 15 you have any objection? 16 MR. BERMAN: Yes, I would object to 17 admission of this exhibit on the grounds of it is 18 hearsay, and grounds of relevance. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, hearsay is 20 admitted into these proceedings, as you know, 21 under certain parameters. 22 Mr. Dobitsch, do you have any response

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1 

### as to the representative of the Respondent 2 company, to the objection? 3 

### THE WITNESS: I would say this is 4 extremely pertinent to my case over here. Mr. 5 Allen, in this article, is

-- especiallythe last 6 four paragraphs is speaking, really, to you, 7 gentlemen the inspectors, about how enforcement 8 should not be the first way to go with a 9 violation. 10 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and

-- 11 

### THE WITNESS: With many, depending on 12 

### the violation, of course. But that there are 13 other ways that we can, while making flying safer 14 

### for ourselves and the public, there are other 15 methods that can be taken, besides this kind of 16 enforcement, these kind of fines, for me having 17 to come to court to try to defend myself. 18 

### There are, certainly, other ways of 19 

### doing this. And I think it is certainly 20 pertinent. 21 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm going to reserve 22 ruling on the objection, and I'm going to ask Mr.

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### 1 Dobitsch a few questions about the exhibit. 2 So looking at Exhibit D, as in David, 3 that the Respondent is proposing for admission, 4 it appears that it is taken from a magazine of 5 some kind. 6 What magazine is that? 7 

### THE WITNESS: It is an FAA publication 8 called "FAA Safety Briefing". 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what year, and 10 what month was it published? 11 

### THE WITNESS: This was published ln 12 July and August of 2012. 13 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And how is it that 14 you know about this publication, or have come 15 across this particular piece? 16 

### THE WITNESS: Actually my attorney, 17 who had gone for the initial conference with Mr. 18 

### Berman, actually there, he found this. And he 19 sent it to me and he said, hey Bill, this is 20 really for you. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So this lS not a 22 magazine that you subscribed to, for example?

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1 

### THE WITNESS: I've seen copies of it. 2 They are in all the FBOs at different airports. 3 

### And a lot of times, when the inspectors will come 4 

### by, they will give me copies of the magazine. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: So you use it on 6 

### occasion? 7 

### THE WITNESS: I'm familiar with it, 8 

### yes. And I do read some of the articles, sure. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Your objection is 10 

### noted, Mr. Berman, and it is overruled. Exhibit 11 

### D is hereby admitted. 12 (The document referred to, 13 

### having been previously 14 

### marked for identificationas 15 

### Respondent Exhibit D 

### is 16 

### admitted in evidence.) 17 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, before 18 we get back into your narrative there was, also, 19 another exhibit, I believe, one more. 20 

### In your proposedmaterials, Exhibit B, 21 as ln boy, dated November 25, 2013. Is this 22 something that you also plan to move for

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-- I 3 would like to submit that. I don't think that I 4 have that in front of me. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, what I'm trying 6 to do is, since Mr. Palmer is at counsel table, 7 Mr. Palmer are you, looking at the materials, do 8 you see that in front of you? 9 MR. PALMER: It is the November 25, 10 2013 document. Or, Mr. Dobitsch, do you know 11 where it is on your table? 12 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I will ask you to go, 14 leave the witness chair and go back to counsel 15 table and get that. 16 THE WITNESS: Thank you, Your Honor. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And then we can talk 18 about it, once you are back on the stand. 19 Do you have copies for the court 20 reporter and Mr. Berman? 21 22

(202) 234·4433 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Get all those copies.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com146 1 Yes, please. 2 If you would hand two to the court 3 reporter, and do you have one for yourself? Then 4 I will ask the court reporter to give you back 5 one, and I will take, and I will use the one that 6 you pre-filed with me, for the time being. 7 So if you would go back to the witness 8 chair, sir? And before you start talking, again, 9 I will simply remind you that you are, still, 10 under oath. 11 You may be seated. You have before 12 you Proposed Respondent's Exhibit B, as in boy. 13 Would you care to identify that for us? 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, this is an 8410 15 airman competency/proficiency check form, that 16 was given to Mr. Palmer after a 297 check ride, 17 given by Joseph Baur, of the Allentown FSDO, back 18 on November 25th of 2013. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And why, in your 20 opinion, does this have anything to do with this 21 case? 22

(202) 234-4433 THE WITNESS: The reason why I think
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com147 1 it has something to do is, the form is confusing, 2 in itself. Because on the type of check we have 3 293, with boxes where it says type of check, all 4 three, the 293, 297 and 299 boxes are checked. 5 But one has to look further down, at 6 the remarks, to ascertain that it is just a 297 7 check. 8 So the reason I think it is pertinent 9 is, even the FAA can make mistakes. And I also 10 note, at this time, that if there was confusion, 11 I would make sure that I would get a definite yes 12 or no. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Are you moving for 14 admission of Respondent's Exhibit B? 15 THE WITNESS: Yes, I would like to 16 move to include Exhibit B. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman? 18 MR. BERMAN: I would object on the 19 grounds of relevance. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The objection is 21 noted and respectfully overruled. 22 hereby, admitted.

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www.nealrgross.com148
1 Do you have anything else that you 2 would like to add to your narrative, sir? 3 THE WITNESS: I guess that is it. I 4 was kind of hoping I would read the last 

### s paragraphs, but you know them. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I will read 7 everything. 8 THE WITNESS: Thank you so much. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I read everything. 10 Let me ask you a couple of questions 11 before I turn to Mr. Berman. Let's talk about 12 the fine, the proposed fine is 46,200 dollars. 13 You were saying that you thought it 14 would be more, it should be more along the lines 15 of 500 dollars. 16 What were you saying to us? 17 THE WITNESS: Well, initially, because 18 of my financial situation, I believe, if I 19 remember right, at the first meeting I might have 20 offered 500 to 1,000 dollars total, payment of 21 fine, to Mr. Berman at that conference. 22

(202) 234-4433 And recently, when Mr. Berman had
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-- 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, and I'm going 3 to stop you because, typically, you don't talk 4 about settlement offers on the stand. 5 THE WITNESS: Okay. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So I think, really, 7 the question is, what do you think would be fair, 8 and why do you think it would be fair? 9 THE WITNESS: Well, my last offer
-- 10 I can't talk recently

-- 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You don't want to 12 talk about your offers. Just what do you think

- 13 14 THE WITNESS: What do I think 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: -- is fair? 16 THE WITNESS: What is fair? I mean, 17 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And why. 19 THE WITNESS: What would be fair, I 20 think, would be
-- I mean what I have already 21 gone through the stress, and aggravation of 22 dealing with this, really making an effort to

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-- it 19 may just make it more difficult for me. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me ask you a 21 question or two. You indicated that you do have 22 some financial information, here, specifically

### w-

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com151 1 2s that your company generated for you, as an 2 employee, is that correct? 3 THE WITNESS: That is correct. My 4 accountant had gotten me the copies last week. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And over what period 6 of time did those span? 7 THE WITNESS: They would be for the 8 tax years 2012, 2013, and 2014. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Have you shared those 10 with Mr. Berman? 11 THE WITNESS: I have not. 12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is it are they 13 something that you think would be helpful to your 14 case, that you want the FAA to know about? 15 THE WITNESS: Sure. I think it clearly 16 demonstratesthat I'm under financial difficulty. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Throughout the 18 pendency of the trial you can continue to share 19 information. Mr. Berman may find that it is too 20 late for him to consider it, but you have the 21 opportunity to offer. 22 So what I'm going to do is I'm going

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### 1 to recess, early, for lunch. I'm going to give 2 you a chance, during your direct testimony, to 3 show Mr. Berman whatever financial information 4 

### you have brought with you. 5 

### Talk to him about it. If youwant to 6 come back, after lunch, and try to testify about 7 it, and he objects, we can deal with it then. s If the two of you reach a settlement 9 

### agreement during lunch, that is fine, too. If 

### 10 you don't, that is fine, we will finish up. 11 It looks like we are going to finish 12 up with the trial today. 13 So just for everyone's edification, I 14 did talk to the court bailiff, before I came back 15 on the bench, about lunch places. If you are not 16 from this area, there are a variety of different 17 lunch places, apparently, available outside the 18 courtroom, on Hamilton Street. 19 

### If you walk up the hill, not down the 20 hill, on Hamilton, you will find some lunch 21 spots, Subway, pizzeria, that kind of thing. 22 You are welcome to leave things in the

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1 

### court room. The courtroom is not secure. So if 2 it is something valuable, that you want to see, 3 like a long pen, or computer equipment, you may 4 want to take that with you. 5 

### But any of the papers can be laid on 6 the table and, of course, no one looks at each 7 other's material. 8 So the Court will be leaving things on 9 

### the bench as well. So if we are breaking early, 10 for lunch, typically we want to come back early. 11 

### How about if we are all back here by 12 one o'clock? Mr. Berman, looking at your case 13 and calendar, is that acceptable to you? 14 

### MR. BERMAN: Yes. 15 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Dobitsch, is 16 that acceptable? 17 

### THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honor. 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Madam Court Reporter, 19 does that interfere with your lunch plans? 20 Okay, I will see you all back at one 21 o'clock, and I will simply note, Mr. Dobitsch, 22 that if you are planning, after lunch, to talk

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### 1 about any -- or to try and talk about any of that 2 financial information, you want to try and make 3 

### copies during the recess, and the marshalls, or 4 

### the court bailiff can give you information about 5 

### printing availability here. 6 

### And then we can mark them 7 

### sequentially. We would start with the letter E, 8 as in egg, and go forward from there. 9 With that we can go off the record, 10 and I will see you all in an hour and 20 minutes. 11 (Whereupon, theabove-mentionedmatter 12 was recessed for lunch.) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 

### 21

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### 155
1 

### A-F-T-E-R-N-0-0-N S-E-S-S-I-0-N 2 

### 1:05 p.m. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: We are back on the 4 record in the matter of Endless Mountains Air, 5 

### Inc. It is docket number FAA-2013-0848. 6 

### We have reconvened after a lunch 7 

### recess. All parties previously identified have 8 

### returned to the court room. And both Mr. 9 Dobitsch and Mr. Berman are at counsel table. 10 

### So, folks, prior to the recess Mr. 11 Dobitsch was in the witness chair. Sir, you have 12 not been excused, yet, from the witness chair. 13 But before you come back up did you 14 have a chance to provide copies of whatever 15 material you wanted to discuss, with Mr. Berman, 16 to Mr. Berman? 17 

### THE WITNESS: Your Honor, I do have 18 

### copies. But I did speak briefly, with Mr. 19 Berman, but he didn't think that was necessary 20 that he have copies of it. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Berman? 22 

### MR. BERMAN: No, that is not. I

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### 1 didn't say I don't need copies. I just said that 2 I have nothing, as far as settlement goes, I have 3 nothing to discuss at this point. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, fair enough. 5 Have you had a chance to get copies of the W-2s, 6 that Mr. Dobitsch referenced, before the recess? 7 

### MR. BERMAN: I haven't received them 8 yet. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, now would be 10 the time, Mr. Dobitsch, to give those to Mr. 11 Berman. If you plan to come back up to the 12 stand, with them, and talk about them. 13 

### And, Mr. Dobitsch, did you have a 14 chance to kind of number them sequentially? 15 

### THE WITNESS: I apologize, I didnot. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, we can take 17 care of that, easily, this afternoon. 18 And while you are still at your desk, 19 and you have a pen in hand, why don't we do the 20 numbering now, just in case? 21 22 well.

(202) 234-4433 

### And then Mr. Berman can number them as So how many different W-2 forms do you
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### 1 have that you plan to bring up with you? 2 

### THE WITNESS: I have three. 3 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: So what years are 4 they? 5 

### THE WITNESS: 2012, 2013, and 2014. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let's take the 2012, 7 and we will label that as Respondent's Exhibit E, 8 

### as in egg. The 2013 label Respondent's F, as in 9 Frank, and the 2014 you want to label as 10 Respondent's G, as in George. 11 

### And I will ask Mr. Berman to label his 12 

### on his own, since he already has copies. And 13 then, Mr. Dobitsch, you should have a copy for 14 the court reporter and one for me, as well, when 15 you come up. 16 

### I will note that Mr. Dobitsch is 17 handing up to the Court clerk, two -- is it one 18 copy for the clerk? 19 

### THE WITNESS: One, yes, one copy to 20 the clerk and then one copy to 21 22 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: You want to give the copy for the Court, to the clerk as well. And

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com158 1 then where lS your copy that you are bringingup? 2 Or are you -- do you have
-- 3 THE WITNESS: I don't have a copy, but 4 I know what it is. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Why don't I give you 6 the Court's copies and then I will take them from 7 you, essentially, or you can leave them on the 8 witness's chair when you are done. 9 So, Mr. Dobitsch, please be reseated. 10 And, sir, you are still under oath. 11 So you have, with you, some additional 12 exhibits. And what I'm going to do is ask you to 13 talk about those, first, and we will start with 14 Exhibit E. 15 You will identify it, and then we will 16 go to Mr. Berman to see if he has objections, or 17 voir dire, about it. 18 So you have before you Exhibit E. 19 What is Exhibit E? 20 THE WITNESS: Exhibit E is my W-2 21 form, issued by Endless Mountains Air, for the 22 year 2012, in the amount of 23,500 dollars.

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1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And this is, this was 2 issued to you as an employee? 3 THE WITNESS: As an employee of 4 Endless Mountains Air. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what is your job 6 title, as an employee? 7 THE WITNESS: I am the president. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And what is the 9 relevance, in your oplnlon, of Exhibit E, to this 10 case today? 11 THE WITNESS: The relevance of Exhibit 12 E is my lack of pay due to the difficulties I 13 have of making my -- keeping my business afloat. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Are you moving for 15 admission of Exhibit E? 16 THE WITNESS: Yes, I would like to 17 admit Exhibit E, please. 18 19 20 21 admitted. 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman? MR. BERMAN: I have no objection. JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit E is, hereby, (The document referred to,
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1 having been previously 2 marked for identificationas 3 Respondent Exhibit E is 4 admitted in evidence.) 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is there anything 6 else you would like to talk about, in terms of 7 Exhibit E? 8 THE WITNESS: Right now, no. 9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Why don't we talk 10 about Exhibit F. What is Exhibit F? 11 THE WITNESS: Exhibit F lS my W-2 for 12 the year 2013, showing total wages of 19,450 13 dollars, paid by Endless Mountains Air, to 14 William Dobitsch. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And in what capacity 16 were you paid this amount? 17 THE WITNESS: As president of Endless 18 Mountains Air. 19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Are you moving for 20 admission of Exhibit F? 21 THE WITNESS: Yes, I would like to 22 admit this into evidence.

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### 161
1 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman, any 2 objection? 3 

### MR. BERMAN: No objection. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit F is hereby 5 admitted. 6 

### (The document referred to, 7 

### having been previously 8 

### marked for identificationas 9 

### Respondent Exhibit F lS 10 

### admitted in evidence.) 11 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let 's talk about 12 Exhibit G, as in George. Could you identify that 13 please? 14 

### THE WITNESS: Exhibit G lS 

### my W-2 from 15 Endless Mountains Air to William Dobitsch, for 16 the year 2014, showing total wages, tips, and 17 compensation of 1,750 dollars. 18 

### And I would like to admit this in as 19 evidence. 20 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And in what capacity 21 were you paid this money? 22

(202) 234-4433 

### THE WITNESS: I was president of
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com162 1 Endless Mountains Air. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman? 3 MR. BERMAN: No objection. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit G is, hereby, 5 admitted. 6 (The document referred to, 7 having been previously 8 marked for identificationas 9 Respondent Exhibit G lS 10 admitted in evidence.) 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Is there anything 12 that you would like to talk about, specifically, 13 in terms of Exhibit F, or Exhibit G? 14 THE WITNESS: Just that they reflect 15 a progressively more difficult economic 16 environment, and my inability to pay myself for 17 my job, as president of Endless Mountains Air. 18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What else, if 19 anything, would you like to add to your narrative 20 testimony today? 21 THE WITNESS: I think that that is 22 about it, then, thank you.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com163 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Let me ask you one or 2 two questions, and then I will turn to Mr. 3 Berman. 4 You had indicated, ln your Answer, 5 that you thought some of your defenses were that, 6 A, it was a technical violation, that it was not 7 intentional, or that it was an inadvertent 8 violation. 9 That it never compromisedpassengers' 10 or flight safety. And that you couldn't afford 11 the proposed fine. 12 It appeared to me, ln some of your 13 enqulry, that you are also asserting, and this 14 came in your answer as well, that there was a 15 problem that arose, during your attempts to try 16 and solve your confusion. 17 Did you want to talk anything more 18 about that? 19 THE WITNESS: I'm not -- do you mean 20 the problem trying to get some guidance from the 21 FAA? 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct.
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### 1 think that that is, somehow, wrapped into what 2 

### the fine should be? Or is that just a way of 3 explaining what happened? 4 

### THE WITNESS: Well, I do think it is 5 a way of explaining what happened and, also, how 6 the fine is, you know, has been come to. 7 

### I understand, you know, Mr. Soudas 8 laid out the different, you know, the schedules 9 that the FAA has. 10 But, you know, at the end of the day 11 I trust Mr. Palmer to get, you know, he is the 12 pilot. And we worked together to try to do the 13 right thing. 14 And I also trust that when he goes to 15 the FAA to get answers, we should get an answer. 16 And by us not being able to get a definitive 17 answer I, certainly, think it is an extenuating 18 circumstance. 19 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Anything 20 else that you would like to add to your direct 21 testimony before I turn to Mr. Berman? 22 THE WITNESS: No, not at this time,

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com165 1 thank you. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman, do you 3 have cross-examination of Mr. Dobitsch? 4 MR. BERMAN: Yes, I do. 5 CROSS-EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. BERMAN: 7 Q Mr. Dobitsch, you testified, before 8 that that there was some confusion as to 9 whether Mr. Palmer was current with respect to 10 the 135 examination requirements, is that 11 correct? 12 A Yes. 13 Q And what was -- what were you confused 14 about? 15 A What were we confused about? Well, we 16 were confused as to whether a check ride was due, 17 for him, at that time, that was coming up. 18 Q Why was there confusion? I mean, if 19 you look at Exhibit do you have, front of you, 20 Exhibit C-2, and C-3. Do you have that in front 21 of you? 22

(202) 234·4433 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I 1m sorry, C-2 and CNEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE.. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com166 1 3? 2 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you give me a 4 minute to get those, Mr. Berman, that would be 5 great. 6 (Pause.) 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, let us 8 know when you have those exhibits in front of 9 you. 10 THE WITNESS: Okay. 11 (Pause.) 12 THE WITNESS: Okay, I do have them, 13 Your Honor. 14 BY MR. BERMAN: 15 Q And there was no confusion about the 16 fact that, as of July 22nd, 2010, Mr. Palmer was 17 current with respect to 135.293, 135.297, and 18 135.299, is that correct? 19 A Well, there is no confusion now. 20 Q Right, well, was there confusionthen, 21 that he was in compliance with

-- 22 A

(202) 234·4433 There was confusion at that time. You
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1 

### know, my understanding of the rules were that 2 every six months Mr. Palmer needed a check ride. 3 

### I mean, it is as plain as that. He 4 

### needed a check ride. Mr. Palmer has told me, 5 

### numerous times, that each check ride is 6 

### identical. 7 

### So I 

### looked at April 18th, 2011, as 8 

### being within six months. So at that time he was 9 

### less than six months. I 

### saw him not needing a 10 

### check ride. 11 

### And then, you know, with that in mind, 12 

### and the lack of information from the FSDO, I 13 

### guess, or guidance we looked at the regulations 14 

### and we thought he was okay. 15 Q 

### Well, there are clear 12 month 16 

### requirements in the regulations, in 135.293 and 17 

### 135.299, is that correct? 18 A 

### Yes, I 

### do understand that now. At 19 

### that time I did not understand that. Which is 20 

### why have a which is why the FSDO request that 21 

### we come here to explain these, you know, at that 22 point

(202) 234-4433

### alleged violations, and
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### explain the

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### 1 regulations better to us. 2 Q 

### Wouldn't you agree that a part 135 air 3 

### carrier has ultimate responsibility for 4 

### compliance with the FAR 135 regulations, 5 

### independent of any guidance from Flight 6 Standards? 7 A 

### Well, ultimately yes. You know, 8 ultimately Mr. Palmer and I make the decisions. 9 But we certainly are not --you know, I'm not an 10 expert working with the FARs every day, as the 11 members of the FSDO are. 12 Which is why we reached out for some 13 guidance. 14 Q 

### Well, aren't you required to be 15 knowledgeable of the
-- if you are running a Part 16 135 air carrier, aren't you responsible to be 17 familiar with the Part 135 regulations? 18 A 

### Absolutely, but at the same time I'm 19 not infallible. 20 Q 

### And you mentioned, before, the name 21 Gene McCoy? 22 A

(202) 234-4433 

### Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com169 1 Q 

### And he is the manager of the Allentown 2 FSDO? 3 A 

### Yes, I 

### believe he is now, and I 4 

### think he was at the time, too. 5 Q 

### And have you worked with him? 6 A I 

### have never worked with him. I 7 

### cannot recall

-- 8 Q 

### But you are aware that he is the 9 

### manager of the FSDO, correct? 10 A 

### Yes. 11 Q 

### And you were aware, and back when he 12 

### became manager you were aware of that, is that 13 

### right? 14 A I 

### can't say yes or no. 15 Q 

### Well, back in 2011 

### were you aware that 16 

### he was the manager of the FSDO? 17 A I 

### can't say that I 

### knew for sure, no. 18 Q 

### Well, who was it, at the FSDO, that 19 

### you felt didn't give you the proper, or 20 

### sufficient guidance, with respect to your 21 

### confusion of that

-- 22 A

(202) 234-4433 

### Well, I had worked a number of years
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### with Mr. Ference, before, I had known him. And 2 Randy and I, or Randy, we decided that he would 3 be the most knowledgeable. 4 Q 

### Were you aware that Bob Ference was 5 not the manager of the FSDO? 6 A 

### Yes, I knew that. 7 Q 

### And did it ever occur, to you, to go 8 to management of the FSDO, if you weren't 9 satisfied with the non-responsiveness of the 10 inspectors at the FSDO? 11 A 

### No, it did not. 12 Q 

### Why is that? 13 A 

### Because I, over the years, I had built 14 up a certain level of trust with Mr. Ference and, 15 generally, I would feel comfortable if he had 16 given us an answer. 17 Q 

### So you felt comfortable with Mr. 18 Ference's response to you? 19 A 

### At that time I
-- no, I don't think 2

### o so, because I
-- he didn't give me an answer yes, 21 or no, really what I was looking for. 22 Q 

### Well, why didn't you to go management,

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### 171 1 at the FSDO, to go over his head and try to get a 2 

### better answer from management? 3 A I 

### guess, at that time, I 

### would have

-- 4 I 

### wouldn't have thought of it, I 

### didn't think of 5 

### it. 6 Q 

### Are you familiar with the requirement 7 of the Part 135 regulations to maintain records 8 to reflect pilot currency in the Part 135 9 examinations? 10 A 

### Yes, that would be the 8410 forms. 11 Q 

### And you are required to keep these for 12 a certain period of time, is that correct? 13 A 

### Yes. 14 Q 

### And for how long a period of time? 15 A 

### I believe it is two years. 16 Q 

### And when the FAA comes to inspect 17 records, you are required to produce them, is 18 that right? 19 A 

### Yes. 20 Q 

### And when the FAA came to look at the 21 records, when this investigationcame about, that 22 was less than a year of the violations, is that

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com172 1 correct? 2 A Yes, it would have been. 3 Q So would it be correct to say you were 4 required, at the time the FAA inspected, you were s required to maintain, still have these records 6 reflecting Mr. Palmer's 8410-3s? 7 A Yes. 8 Q Okay. And at the time the FAA came to 9 inspect the records you were required to produce 10 them to the FAA, is that right? 11 A Yes. 12 Q So you had no choice but to provide 13 these records, to the FAA, if you wanted to be ln 14 compliance, and not violate other regulations, is 15 that correct? 16 A That is the way I understand it. 17 Q All right. Is Endless Mountains Air 18 still in business? 19 A Yes, we are. 20 Q And what kind of flights do you 21 conduct in your business? These are -- I mean, 22 are these
-- you have passengers who pay money

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1 

### for flights? 2 A 

### Well, we -- our business is charter, 3 

### air charter. And we, also, rent aircraft for 4 

### pilots that are certificated, and can fly them. 5 And we also do flight instructionwith 6 

### those aircraft. 7 Q 

### And how much do you charge for the use 8 

### of the aircraft? 9 A 

### For the 172 

### rental it is 135 

### dollars 10 

### an hour, plus tax. And for the Cirrus, the 11 

### charter aircraft, it is it depends on its use. 12 

### If it is for charter I will, generally it is 13 

### kind of a sliding scale, you know, see if I can 14 

### get the business. 15 

### But my base rate is 325 

### an hour for 16 

### the aircraft. And if you are a renter of the 17 

### aircraft, it is 250 

### dollars an hour. 18 Q 

### And to conduct these flights you need 19 

### to have money to pay for fees, and fuel, and 20 

### other expenses, is that correct? 21 A 

### Absolutely, sure, there is fuel 22 expenses, there is maintenance expenses, you

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### know, insurance. 2 Q 

### All right. So if you have only 15 3 

### dollars in a checking account, where does the 4 

### money come from to pay for these expenses? 5 A 

### Well, I don't know if you have ever 6 

### run a business, Mr. Berman, but money is fluid in 7 

### a business account. There is constantly monies 8 

### coming in, and constantly monies going out. 9 

### In my case, unfortunately, basically 10 

### whatever comes in, goes out. And, you know, the 11 

### insurance company, it is not like the bill comes 12 and I have to write that check today, you know? 13 

### I, basically, really over the past 14 

### couple of years, I'm just

-- I look at myself as 15 

### being responsible for putting my fingers in the 16 

### dike, on any given day, just to keep things 17 

### going. 18 

### And then, sometimes that means some 19 

### people wait, other times it means they get paid 20 

### right away. You know, as I had mentioned earlier, 21 my accountant waited, patiently, for 22 approximately three years to get her 15,000

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### 1 dollars. 2 But they are good people, you know? 3 She is a good person, and like I said, it is 4 

### fluid. You know, hangar rentals come in. My main s hangar rental, people that rent hangers from me, 6 sure, their rent is due at the beginning of the 7 

### month. 8 Depending on what their difficulties 9 

### are, sure, I might get. Very rarely would I get 10 it in the beginning of the month. 11 But, I mean, a lot of times they are 12 late. And if they are late, then I'm late with 13 

### my payments. It is not a set schedule. 14 

### And in answer to your question, I 15 don't have any backup, I guess you could say. 16 

### There is nothing sitting, in my checking 17 accountant, that I could say no problem, this 18 insurancebill is due, or the maintenance bill to 19 O&N 

### who does the work on the aircraft, it lS 20 

### due. 21 When I have the money I will pay it. 22 And they understand that. And I'm the same way,

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com176 1 

### you know? A lot of times, really, with my 2 customers too. I understand how it is. 3 

### Sometimes things are tough. So you 4 try to do the best you can to make it work. 5 Q 

### Is there a lot of money spent on 6 credit? 7 A 

### No, I don't have any credit any more. 8 My credit has been destroyed over the past five, 9 

### or six years. Really, since the crash of 2008, 10 when everything crashed. 11 

### Flying really dropped dramatically. 12 And we are not in an especially wealthy area of 13 

### the country, and people have limited funds. And 14 we do the best we can. 15 Q 

### You testified, before, about the 16 Exhibits E, F and G, the W-2s. And these reflect 17 how much Endless Mountains Air pays you, as an 18 employee, is that correct? 19 A That is correct. 20 Q 

### And isn't it true that the company, 21 and you, as the one person who runs the company, 22 has the discretion to use money for other things,

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### 1 other than paying yourself salary, is that 2 

### correct? 3 A 

### Well, yes. 4 Q 

### So the fact that you are paying 5 

### yourself less money would not, necessarily, 6 

### reflect the fact that the company is doing any 7 

### worse than it was before, is that correct? 8 A 

### It is possible if you reflect that. 9 

### In this case it doesn't. Just for everyone's 10 

### knowledge, when I first started this business my 11 

### yearly 12 Q 

### You have answered the question. 13 A 

### Okay. 14 

### MR. BERMAN: I have no further 15 

### questions. 16 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. 17 

### Berman. Mr. Dobitsch, Slnce you are representing 18 

### yourself, you can add to your narrative 19 statement, at this time. 20 

### Based on the cross-examination did 21 

### anything come up that you would like to explain? 22

(202) 234-4433 

### THE WITNESS: Sure, especially, really
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com178 1 the last question. 2 When I first startedthis business, in 3 2001, I took over as the FBO at Seaman's Airport. 4 My projected income was 52,000 dollars a year. 5 That was my income. I was able to pay myself that 6 for three years, approximately. 7 Every year it has slowly dwindled. 8 But, ln particular, it has accelerated in 2008. 9 I'm doing the best I
-- I'm really just keeping 10 it afloat as best I can. 11 A lot of days I wonder why I even 12 bother. Do I need the aggravation and the 13 difficulty? But I really do enjoy running the 14 airport, and the FBO. I do enjoy it, it is a lot 15 of fun. 16 And I've had a lot of different jobs 17 ln my life, and I would say that I have enjoyed 18 this the most. And I'm still an optimistic 19 person, and I think
-- and I still think, even 20 Mr. Palmer and I were talking on the way down 21 here, I'm still optimistic that things are going 22 to turn around.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com179 1 And in a couple of years, with some 2 hard work, I will be okay. And that is about it. 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman, based on 4 the additional direct, do you have any sur cross? 5 MR. BERMAN: No, I don't. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Dobitsch, thank 7 you very much for your testimony, it appears to 8 be complete, you are excused. 9 MR. DOBITSCH: Thank you, Your Honor. 10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You are excused. 11 Leave all the exhibits on the stand. And we will 12 wait until you get back to your seat. 13 Mr. Dobitsch, is there anyone else 14 that you are planning to call to testify on your 15 case? 16 MR. DOBITSCH: No, Your Honor. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Any other exhibits 18 that we need to address on behalf of your 19 company? 20 MR. DOBITSCH: No. 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you rest at this 22 time, are you done?

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### 1 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. The Defense 3 

### rests. Mr. Berman, did you wish to make a 4 closing argument of any kind? 5 

### MR. BERMAN: Yes, I would. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Dobitsch, do 7 you wish to make a closing argument as well? 8 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I would. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Berman, 10 would you like to take a few minutes to think 11 about your closing, or are you ready to go right 12 now? 13 

### MR. BERMAN: I'd like to take a -- 14 just a short break. 15 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: How much time would 16 you like to have? 17 

### MR. BERMAN: Five minutes. 18 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Dobitsch, 19 how much time would you like to have, to think 20 about what you would like to say, in closing? 21 MR. DOBITSCH: Five minutes would be 22 fine for me.

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### 181
1 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I appreciateboth of 2 your interests and expedition. I'm going to give 3 

### you ten minutes just to be on the safe side. 4 

### So why don't we reconvene at 1:40? We 5 

### are off the record at this time. 6 

### (Whereupon, the above-entitledmatter 7 

### went off the record at 1:30 p.m. and 8 

### went back on the record at 1:40 p.m.) 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: We are back on the 10 record in the matter of Endless Mountains Air, 11 

### Inc., docket number FAA-2013-0848. 12 We have reconvened, after a brief 13 

### afternoon recess. Prior to the recess both 14 parties rested their cases ln chief, and the 15 parties are now, here, for closing argument. 16 

### Mr. Berman, would you like to go 17 

### first? 18 MR. BERMAN: Yes. As a Part 135 air 19 

### carrier, that carries passengers for 20 compensation, Endless Mountains Air is 21 responsible for ensuring that it complies with 22 the requirements of Federal Aviation Regulation

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com182 1 Part 135. 2 Including specifically, for the 3 purposes of this proceeding, the currency 4 requirements for examinations that is to be 5 taken, by pilots for Part 135 operations, 293, 6 2 97 , and 2 9 9 . 7 And the purpose of these regulations 8 is to ensure that those responsible for taking 9 paylng, flying passengers for hire, are qualified 10 to fly. 11 And if they are not qualified, as a 12 result of not being current with the examination 13 requirements, this poses a potential danger to 14 the flying public. 15 And there has been testimony, from 16 InspectorHarry Soudas, about these requirements, 17 135.293, 295, 297, they are all independent of 18 each other. 19 There is a -- 135.293 is divided into 20 a written, or oral examination, in subpart A. 21 Subpart B has a competency check requirement. 22 135.297

(202) 234-4433 has an instrument
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www.nealrgross.com183 1 requirement. 2 And 135.299 is a line check, where 3 pilots are tested, go from one place to another, 4 landings, and take-offs. 5 And all three of the
-- it is not, you 6 can comply with one and not the other. All three 7 have to be complied with. 8 There is, also, a grace month 9 requirement, ln 135.301, that allows them an 10 additional month. And the 135.293 checks are 11 required to be performed every 12 calendar 12 months. 13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I'm sorry, could you 14 say that again, please? 15 MR. BERMAN: The 135.293 requirements 16 are every 12 months. The 135.297 every six 17 months, and the 135.299 every 12 months. 18 In this case there is no dispute that 19 Endless Mountains Air had Mr. Palmer conduct six 20 flights in Part 135 in September-Octoberof 2011, 21 when he was not current under either 135.293A, or 22 135.299.

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1 And this is corroborated bythe forms 2 8410-3 that were offered and admitted into 3 evidence, Exhibit C-2, C-3, C-8 and C-9. 4 And these forms were very clearas to 5 which regulations were compliedwith, as a result 6 of the examinations reflected in these forms. 7 It is very clear, from looking at 8 Exhibit C-2 and C-3, that it was Mr. Palmer, at 9 that time, was current with respect to 135 all 10 three of the regulations in question, as of July 11 22nd, 2010. 12 And the only 8410 after that, 13 reflecting his passing examination, was the one 14 on Exhibit C-8, reflecting his passing of an 15 examination in 135.297. 16 It is very clear, from this form, that 17 it was only 135.297, with which he was in 18 compliance. And that it says, at the bottom, 19 remarks: 135.297 check, re-established 135.297 20 check. 21 At the top it says, where there are 22 three regulations listed, only 135.297 is checked

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### 185
1 off. 

### And it is clear, from these forms, that he 2 was only in compliance with 135.297. 3 Now, there has been some testimony, to 4 

### the effect that there are about

-- about Federal 5 Aviationregulation 135.297, excuse me, 135.293C, 6 which states that the instrument proficiency 7 check required by 135.297 may be substituted for 8 the competency check required by this section, 9 for the type of aircraft used ln the check. 10 Now, the-- even if you interpret this 11 regulation, in favor of Respondent, this would 12 only suggest that the instrument proficiency 13 check required by 135.297, could be used to 14 substitute for the requirements of 135.293B, 15 which refers to the competency check. 16 

### Now, I'm not taking a position as to 17 whether it does or not, whether it can be 18 substituted. But it certainly, it is very clear, 19 from the language of the regulations, that 20 135.297 proficiency check not be used in lieu of 21 a 135.293A written or oral test. 22 Nor can it be used for a 135.299 line

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com186 1 check. And this was established with the 2 testimony of inspector Soudas, these are 3 different types of examinations. 4 So, therefore, I would say that it is 5 clear, from the regulations, and from the 6 evidence in this record, that when Mr. Palmer 7 flew these flights in September/October, it was 8 clear, and should have been clear, to Endless 9 Mountains Air, that he was not current under 10 135.293A, 290, and 135.299. 11 I would note that, as an air carrier, 12 Endless Mountains Air is responsible to be 13 familiar with these regulatims. And it is 14 ultimately responsible for compliance with the 15 regulations. 16 And it shouldn't have to rely on 17 guidance from the Federal Aviation 18 Administration. 19 There has been testimony, from 20 Respondent, Endless Mountains Air, that they 21 sought guidance from the FSDO, and they were not 22 satisfiedwith the guidance that they were given,

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### 1 with respect to their confusion. 2 Again, I'm still a little confused 3 about what the confusion was, and I don't think 4 that there should have been confusion. 5 And even if there was confusion, there 6 has been testimony, from Inspector Ference, that 7 

### they sought his advice and he said, well, show me 8 your records, and they wouldn't produce them, 9 after he asked for them. 10 

### And they have, their testimony is 11 

### somewhat different, somewhat different. But the 12 bottom line is that their claim, Mr. Ference 13 testified that he tried to help them, but he 14 couldn't help them, because they didn't provide 15 the records. 16 They are saying that he just left them 17 

### to their own devices. But there is no 18 explanationas to why they, if they weren't happy 19 with the guidance they got from the FSDO, from 20 Inspector Ference, why couldn't they go to 21 management in FSDO? 22 Or try to make further attempts to get

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com188 1 clarification? Again, they are ultimately 2 responsible, I think the regs are pretty clear. 3 And they

-- and it is a very -- they have a big 4 responsibility, taking flying passengers, that I 5 would submit they should take extra steps to make 6 sure that they are in compliance. 7 Now, turning to the sanction 8 determination, there is testimony from Inspector 9 Soudas about his use of exhibit C-7, 21538. This 10 was a -- Endless Mountains Air is a small group 4 11 air carrier. 12 He testified that he determined that 13 Endless Mountains Air, by using Mr. Palmer in 14 these flights, when he was not current with 15 respect to the examination requirements, was 16 unqualified under figure 81 and 3, on page 6, of 17 6, of Exhibit 7. 18 And that the recommendedcivil penalty 19 for that would be a maximum civil penalty. And 20 that reflects the fact that the FAA is very 21 concerned that pilots, who fly for Part 135 22 operations, and other air carriers be, have the

(202) 234·4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com189 1 necessary qualifications to fly, for purposes of 2 the safety of the public. 3 And I note that Exhibit C-7, page 4 of 4 6, reflects that these violations refer to all 5 U.S. air carriers, U.S. commercial operators, 6 part 125 operators, and part 129 operators. 7 So U.S. air carriers, and commercial B operators, would include Endless Mountains Air as 9 a Part 135 air carrier. 10 There is testimony, from Inspector 11 Soudas, that the relevant-- that there are three 12 categories of group 4 on page 3, of Exhibit 7. 13 And the one that would be relevant, 14 here, is the Group 4 violations covered under 15 49USC46301A58, that occurred after June 15th, 16 2006. 17 The maxlmum range being 4,400 to 18 11,000. Mr. Soudas determined that there weren't 19 any particular aggravating, or mitigating 20 circumstances. So, in such a case, we would take 21 the mid point of that range, come up with 7,700 22 and multiply that by six flights and violations,

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com190 1 for a total of 46,200. 2 And that is the sanction that we seek. 3 There has been a 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Berman, let me 5 ask you a question about that. 6 MR. BERMAN: Okay. 7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: In looking at page 3 8 of C-7, under group 4, with the maximum range of 9 4,400 to 11,000, essentially the minimum/maximum 10 would be about 26,400. And then the 11 maximum/maximum, would be about 66,000. 12 Is that about right? 13 MR. BERMAN: The minimum/maximumwould 14 be
-- okay. 15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If we times the 4,400 16 by 6 versus the 11,000 by 6. And if you could 17 calculate that to a better number than I did, 18 that is great. 19 MR. BERMAN: If you said, did you say 20 26,400 as the 21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That was my rough 22 calculation.

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1 MR. BERMAN: Right, that is correct. 2 The minimum of the maximum range would be 26,400 3 and the maximum of the maximum range would be 4 66,000. 5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And as you have 6 worked with the recommendation, under 2153B what, 7 if any, rationale do you know of, that would drop 8 this either below 26,400 or above 66,000, just 9 hypothetically. 10 MR. BERMAN: Well, I don't
-- 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you ever see that? 12 MR. BERMAN: Yes, I don't think we can 13 go above 66,000 unless we were to say, well, 14 there were two different regulations, 135
-- that 15 would be, I think that might be construed as 16 piling on. 17 Now, to go below we would have to 18 establish that there was a different violation. 19 Unless there was some, maybe we could go lower if 20 we determined that there were unusually 21 mitigating circumstances that would warrant -- we 22 are not --

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### 192
1 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: But your position is 2 that there were no mitigating circumstan::::es at 3 all, in this case, is that correct? 4 

### MR. BERMAN: That is correct. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. Go 6 ahead. 7 

### MR. BERMAN: Okay. And so -- okay, so 8 we have established, we have had testimony that 9 the appropriate civil penalty would be 46,200. 10 

### Now, Endless Mountains Air has this 11 claim of inability to pay the civil penalty. And 12 I would note, and this lS 

### suggested by Your 13 Honor, at the beginning of this hearing, that
-- 14 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Absent documentary 15 evidence, that 16 

### MR. BERMAN: Right, the burden of 17 

### proof is on Respondent. And to fulfill that 18 burden they would need to produce documents. 19 They have not produced any documents, 20 

### other than Exhibit R-E, R-F and R-G. And that 21 simply reflects one aspect of the business, how 22 much they paid the president of the company, Mr.

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-- 3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm going to 4 interrupt you again, Mr. Berman. 5 MR. BERMAN: Okay. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: As I understand the 7 case law, in this, and I want you to correct me 8 if I'm wrong. That, essentially, the burden is 9 on the Respondent to produce substantial 10 financial documentation, or sufficient financial 11 documentation, so that the FAA can reasonably 12 enquire, and question, or challenge the assertion 13 of financial inability to pay. 14 And absent that kind of documentation, 15 a subjective statement, whether in writing, or 16 orally under oath, has been deemed, by the FAA 17 administrators, insufficient to grant a party 18 relief under financial distress. 19 Is that about the
-- a good summary of 20 the way the FAA case law has run in this 21 particular issue, or is it a little different 22 than that?

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1 

### MR. BERMAN: I'm not really sure. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 3 

### MR. BERMAN: It sounds right to me. 4 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: I think that is what 5 

### it is. But I just wanted to ask you if you had 6 any different understanding and it sounds like 7 you don r

### t. 8 

### MR. BERMAN: Right. 9 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, go ahead. 10 

### MR. BERMAN: So Respondent has not 11 

### produced any documentation of the of his 12 inability to pay, except for these W-2s, which 13 only reflect how much he, as an employee, was 14 paid. 15 But that only reflects one aspect, it 16 doesn't really reflect on the financial

-- and he 17 is saying that, yes, I had to pay myself less, 18 and that shows that the company was not making as 19 much money. 20 But it doesn't, you can't really tell, 21 this is taken totally out of context. 22 really tell how the company is doing.

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### You can't

www.nealrgross.com

### 195
1 

### They have discretion, of course, to 2 

### use expenses for

-- excuse me, money that they 3 

### take in, for other things. As Mr. Dobitsch 4 described the business as money coming in, coming 5 out, it is fluid. 6 I note that the company is

-- he says 7 that they only have 15 dollars in the checking 8 

### account, but the company is in business. They 9 are charging a lot of money, hundreds of dollars, 10 for flights. 11 

### They need money to spend for these 12 flights. There must be, somewhere, a source of 13 money for them to spend money. So they seem to be 14 

### a viable business operation. 15 But the most, the important point I'm 16 trying to make is that they haven't established 17 the

-- they haven't fulfilled the burden of proof 18 to show that they are unable to pay the civil 19 penalty. 20 So with that I ask that Your Honor 21 find that the 46,200 dollars civil penalty is 22 appropriate, and issue an order accordingly.

(202) 234·4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com196 1 Thank you. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. 3 Berman. Mr. Dobitsch, do you have a closing 4 argument? 5 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay, thank you, Your 6 Honor. 7 I will address Mr. Berman's charging 8 bunches of dollars for an aircraft. That 9 particular aircraft has been sitting since 10 December 28th. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, Mr. Dobitsch, 12 I'm going to stop you. 13 MR. DOBITSCH: I'm sorry. 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Closing argument lS 15 to address to the Court. 16 MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So if you have 18 something you would like to say, you address it 19 to the Court in an argument of persuasion. 20 So if you and Mr. Berman want to have 21 a conversation, after this, and you may or may 2 2 not, depending on how tired you are, that is

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### 197 1 something different. 2 But right now it is to me only. You 3 may proceed. 4 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay, Your Honor. 5 

### I 1

### d just like the Court to realize 6 that even though we might be charging, for the 7 use of our aircraft, hundreds of dollars per 8 hour, many times those aircraft just sit on the 9 ground, especially this time of year. 10 

### Our particular aircraft, the Cirrus 11 that we use for charters, has been sitting there 12 since December 28th, with the harsh weather. 13 That doesn 1

### t stop me from having to 14 pay insurance, and maintenance and requirements 15 that the FAA has for 135. My bills still come in. 16 

### Anyway, I also wanted to correct the 17 record, too. I did, previously, after our initial 18 informal conference with Mr. Berman, provide 19 substantial amounts of financial information. 20 At that time I did submit tax returns 21 for 1

### 09, 2010, and 2011. So
-- along with other 22 financial documents

--

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1 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: But you understand 2 that I don't have access to that. 3 

### MR. DOBITSCH: You don't have that, I 4 understand that. 5 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And your burden was 6 

### to bring it to me, today. So I can't base a 7 decision on what you may have given to Mr. Berman 8 in the past. 9 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Okay. Well, that is my 1

### o error then. 11 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes, okay. 12 MR. DOBITSCH: Anyway, I don't have 13 

### too much else to say. But I would still like to 14 go back to this article written by Mr. Allen. 15 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And this would be 16 Exhibit D? 17 

### MR. DOBITSCH: ExhibitD, yes. There 18 was a lot of good wise words. 19 And I know one of the main focus for 20 the FAA is safety. And he talks about it quite a 21 bit in here, and how to manage safety with the 22 aviation community, and what they are charged to

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### 1 regulate. 2 And I'm just golng to read the last 3 

### couple of paragraphs. Though the FAA 

### clearlyhas 4 a 

### significant role ln assuring continued 5 

### operational safety, everyone bears that 6 

### responsibility. 7 

### The FAA 

### cannot inspect safety into the 8 

### system. It is the duty, of each individual, and 9 

### each organizationthat we certificate, to operate 10 

### ln accordance with the established standards. 11 

### The Agency's role was to verify that 12 

### certificate holders continue to meet standards. 13 

### The FAA 

### has a wide range of tools to perform the 14 

### functions associated with continued operational 15 

### safety. 16 

### Because enforcement is the most 17 obvious tool it is, often, the first to be used. 18 My message, to the FAA 

### inspector force, or work 19 force, is that enforcement may not be the most 20 effective means of achieving compliance. 21 

### And, more importantly, it may not be 22 the best way to achieve our goal of promoting

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE. N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com200 1 safety. In fact, I believe that an enforcement 2 only approach is counterproductive. 3 It obscures the goal of achieving 4 safety compliance. It misses opportunities to 5 educate. It undermines efforts to develop a 6 strong safety culture. 7 It wastes the FAA's and industry 8 resources, and it dilutes our ability to focus on 9 real risk. My staff is working on updating 10 guidance, for our inspectors, that outlines a 11 more thoughtful approach. 12 The key question is what best serves 13 our safety promotion goal. Enforcement should be 14 reserved for events and incidents that were 15 intentional disregard, flagrant safety 16 violations, dangerous complacency, or outright 17 stupidity, pose a systemic threat to continued 18 operational safety in aviation. 19 For an unintentional infraction I want 20 inspectors to first seek resolutionby a positive 21 corrective action, that most likely would include 22 additional education and training skills.

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### 201
1 

### We certainly
-- we made an effort
-- 2 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: And I'm going to stop 3 

### you. As I understand it, you have stopped 4 

### reading from Exhibit D? 5 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes, I'm sorry. 6 

### JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you, go 7 

### ahead. 8 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Looking at this, 9 enforcement should be reserved for intentional 10 disregard, we certainly didn't disregard the 11 

### regulations. We were quite mindful of them. 12 Flagrant safetyviolations, Mr. Palmer 13 had flown less than six months, on a check ride 14 

### prlor to that. Dangerous complacency, or 15 outright stupidity. 16 

### And I would say none of these fall 17 

### under this. For an unintentional

**infractio~** 

### 18 which this was, he suggests that inspectors seek 19 positive resolution by a positive corrective 20 action, which way back in January of 2012, I 21 guess, we did try that route, when we met with 22 Mr. Ference and Mr. Soudas.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 www.nealrgross.com202 1 And, just in closing, I might not have 2 shown sufficient financial documentation to help 3 with this, unfortunately, to the Court. 4 But I can assure you that fine would 5 be a disastrous thing. And one of the questions 6 that did come up, a couple of times, is how we 7 had sought the FAA's guidance to get us 8 straightened out, so we would know what we were 9 doing. 10 And, you know, why didn't we follow, 11 go further with it? You know, go to the 12 management, go to Mr. McCoy, or whoever. 13 But I think it begs the question, with 14 the FAA, with their focus supposed to be on 15 safety, why didn't the FAA, when we had 16 questions, make an effort to follow-up with 17 those? 18 Then all of this would have been 19 avoided. Thank you. 20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. 21 Dobitsch. Okay, it appears that the case is 22 ready for a decision. What happens, at this

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### 203
1 

### point, is that the court reporter will prepare a 2 transcript with the original exhibits, which I 3 will make sure I have before anyone leaves the 4 courtroom. 5 Typically they have 30 days, she has 6 30 days to file a court transcript. That doesn't 7 mean that on the 31st day a decision will be 8 reached. 9 

### And I'm going to explain, a little 10 

### bit, about that. There is going to be a 11 substantial delay between the time the court 12 transcript is filed, and the time that I get a 13 written decision out. 14 In part because we have lost about a 15 third of our staff, through the budget problems 16 that the government has been experiencing, and we 17 

### have not been able to rehire. 18 As a result we are getting backlogged 19 in a way that I don't know, has happened in 20 recent years. 21 So at this point, and I'm trying to 22 reschedule some of my cases, to accommodate

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### 204 1 getting decisions out, at this point, I'm about a 2 year behind in issuing written decisions. 3 I know that is just heart wrenching. 4 So what I have been doing, recently, is pushing 5 out all the new trials into 2016, so that I can 6 

### create some windows of opportunity, in my current 7 schedule, so that I can write the decisions that 8 people have been waiting for. 9 

### You joined that lineup. I just had 10 another case settle in August of this year, which 11 means I have some more August time. 12 But you will be getting this decision 13 as soon as I possibly can. Which means that you 14 will get it after, I think, about all my -- I 15 think you are the eighth case that is, now, in 16 

### line for a written decision. 17 And that means that you are added to 18 the time that I, also, have to spend on all the 19 

### current cases. And my current case load is 20 almost double what it was last year. 21 So I don't mean that to be unkind to 22 anyone. I don't want you to have unrealistic

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### expectations that the decision is going to come 2 out in the next month or so. 3 

### But my staff and I are working as hard 4 

### as we can, to get these things out. And you will 5 

### see things coming out, if you watch, on the web 6 

### for decisions. I'm issuing things almost every 7 

### day, ln some case or another. 8 

### But
-- so with that, I will get this 9 

### decision out to you as fast as I possibly can, 10 

### number one. 11 

### Number two, I'm golng to thank 12 everybody for being here and for testifying. So 13 Mr. Soudas, Mr. Ference, Mr. Dobitsch, Mr. 14 Palmer, thank you all for your testimony today. 15 

### Mr. Berman, and Mr. Dobitsch, thank 16 

### you very much for a 

### very well ordered 17 presentation of exhibits and evidence. I really 18 appreciate that. And I thank you both for your 19 arguments about this particular case. 20 I will say that it does not appear, to 21 me, just in the review that I have had, that the 22 Respondent has made its affirmative defense in

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### terms of finances. 2 And the reason I say that is the way 3 

### I have read the case law, I will go back and read 4 

### it again. It is the Respondent's burden to bring 5 

### to the Court, at the time of the trial, all and 6 

### any evidence of financial documentation that 7 

### would give a full and complete picture of the 8 

### Respondent's financial health or financial 9 

### stress. 10 

### So at this point, at least, it appears 11 

### to me that the defense of the Respondent is more 12 on the other matters that were raised by the 13 

### witnesses and the evidence, which includes the 14 

### possibility of potential mitigating 15 circumstances. 16 And I will take a very good look at 17 

### that. I do want to, also, say that I agree with 18 all the witnesses, that have testified, that 19 safety is absolutely paramount for every single 20 flight that goes out into the air, into the air 21 space. 22 And I appreciate everyone focusing on

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### 1 that. I don't get a chance, very often, to see 2 people more than once, since I cover the entire 3 

### United States. But it is a pleasure to have 4 seen, and visited, with all of you in this case. 5 

### I do hope that the relationship 6 between Respondent and the local office has 7 improved since this time. 8 I 

### know sometimes different 9 personalitiesdon't quite work as well as others. 10 But it lS 

### always helpful to be as sweet, as 11 possible, when you are working with people who 12 can help you. 13 And that is true for everybody who lS 

### 14 in the safety, in the aviation industry. 15 

### So with that I'm going to give you a 16 few minutes to clean up and get out of the 17 courtroom, if you would be so kind. 18 

### And then I will come back and pick up 19 materials. But I will need you, Mr. Berman, if 20 you would be so kind, to come up to the witness 21 chair and just gather the exhibits, and we will 22 count them, just to make sure I have them all

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### 1 before you leave. 2 So if you could come up and get them 3 

### now, please? We will do this on the record so 4 

### that if there is anything missing we can take 5 

### care of it right away. 6 

### If you would put them in order Mr. 7 

### Dobitsch, your time line is up here. So if you 8 

### could come up and get it, that would be great. 9 

### And you are welcome to watch Mr. Berman do the 10 

### count of the exhibits, since you are on the other 11 

### side. 12 

### And we will make sure that the court 13 

### reporter gets a full and complete copy. And I 14 

### should, I can tell you what they are, Mr. Berman. 15 

### You should have C-2 16 17 18 19 

### have it. 20 21 

### 22

(202) 234-4433 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. JUDGE SULLIVAN: C-3. 

### MR. DOBITSCH: I'm still looking. I
JUDGE SULLIVAN: C-4. 

### MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. JUDGE SULLIVAN: 

### C-5?
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1 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: C-7? 3 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: C-8? 5 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: C-9? 7 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You should also have 9 Respondent's exhibit B, as in boy. 10 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: D as ln David. 12 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. Is that the John 13 Allen's article? 14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct, one page. 15 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. It is not labeled 16 here. 17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Why don't I give you 18 a pen, Mr. Dobitsch, and you can label it as D, 19 as in dog. And keep the pen for a moment. 20 There should alsobe E, exhibit E, is 21 a 2012 wage -- 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com210 1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Exhibit F is a 2013 2 wage, and Exhibit G is 2014. 3 MR. DOBITSCH: Yes. 4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you would give me 5 all those exhibits, and my pen back, thank you. 6 I will thank you both, very much, for 7 your assistance. I have these for the court 8 reporter to take as original documents. 9 We can go off the record now. Thank 10 you. 11 (Whereupon, at 2:18p.m., the above12 mentioned matter was concluded.) 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

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....A adjourned83:1 33:4,19,20 34:12,19 16:12,16,1943:6 A-F-T-E-R-N-0-0-N administered35:1 35:12 36:10 52:13,18 103:13112:15114:6

155:1 Administration2:12,16 53:11 54:17 58:2,8 115:7'12 130:5,5 a.m 1:144:2 83:4,5 27:1 84:19186:18 60:13,15,17,2161:4 132:3,12 163:4,14

103:8 Administrative1:17 81:6 83:8 85:3,9,15 164:15,17 170:16,20 ability200:8 administrators 193:17 123:15 139:5 155:4 171:2175:14 able 11:4 18:666:9 admissibility20:9 158:21 159:4160:13 answered 177:12

106:3108:4,5110:12 admission20:9 41:7 160:18161:15162:1 answers 164:15 115:8117:8124:10 141:4,11,17143:3 162:17 168:2,16 anticipate20:13 23:8 126:5 134:4 136:5 145:1 147:14159:15 172:17 173:3 176:17 24:3 164:16178:5203:17 160:20 181:10,18,20183:19 anybody4:19 111:9 above-entitled 1:14 admit16:848:5124:15 186:9,11'12,20 124:9

83:3 181:6 131:21159:17 160:22 188:10,11'13,22 anyway 134:18197:16 above-mentioned 161:18 189:5,7,8,9 192:10 198:12

154:11 admits 16:9 206:20,20 apologize 156:15 above-referenced 15:4 admitted39:1141:11 aircraft15:7,10,16 apparently152:17 absence 12:13 41:16,2142:448:10 22:12,21 32:15 34:4 appear69:15 205:20 absent 19214 19314 48:15 52:3,8 53:19 35:13,14 61:1,3 68:11 APPEARANCES2:1 absolutely76:5 77:11 54:2 55:3,8 60:4,9 68:12107:19 173:3,6 appeared7:21 163:12

90:3,6,20 107:21 97:10124:14141:20 173:8,11,16,17 appears 12:20 17:3 110:5113:1,16132:9 144:11,16147:22 175:19 185:9 196:8,9 82:9 90:22 91:5 96:18 138:7 168:18173:21 159:21160:4161:5 197:7,8,10 143:4 179:7202:21 206:19 161:10162:5,10 airman47:20 51:11 206:10 accelerated 178:8 184:2 66:5 71:8 120:12 applicable 108:1 acceptable 153:13,16 advice95:17100:17 130:10146:15 application71:15 105:8 accepted 97:7 135:9 111:19115:15187:7 airmen 65:6 70:17 apply38:1o 58:15 access 10:22 198:2 affect13:18 87:14 100:3 104:8 62:2268:15 accessible88:22 89:1 affirmative205:22 airplane34:19 appointment131:14 accidents28:16 afford 9:3,3 10:5,6 12:6 airport32:15 36:10 appreciate 181:1 accommodate93:14 133:17 163:10 139:22 178:3,14 205:18 206:22

203:22 afloat 159:13 178:10 airports 144:2 appreciates20:3 account134:13,15 AFR49:12 airway32:16 approach30:8 39:19

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---------------- 197:21 67:1669:5 85:16 63:849:1360:1261:7 201113:2,223:2 32:22 105:3,16106:1121:7 61:18,18 64:9188:16

34:9,1535:11,12 36:8 121:14137:22138:5 188:17 189:4 190:16 37:1045:12,13,17,18 146:16147:4,6182:6 190:16 46:2,8,1747:19 48:18 182:17 603:8 49:8,20 50:3,18,19 29965:1966:12,17 6127:21 28:1368:16 51:10 52:14 56:4 70:22 85:16 104:5 62435:13 64:1866:7,20 67:8 105:3121:14129:3 653:16 Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. (202) 234-4433 Washington DC www.nealrgross.com231 C E R T I F I C A T E This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Endless Mountains Air 1 Inc. Before: DOT/FAA
Date: 03-10-15 Place: Allentown, PA

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

(202)234·4433 Court Reporter

NEAL R. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comEXHIBIT_ **_:c~-_,2..._____**

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CERTIFIED.MAILIRETURi\lRECEIPT FileNo.: 2012EA050008 Mr.WilliamJ.Dobitsch President Endless]\;fountainsAir,Inc. SeamansAirport 727\VindsockAirport Factoryville,P.A. 18419 DearMr. Dobitsch: -··----------. 961 Marcon Blvd., Suite 111 Ailer.town, Pennsylvania i8109 6"10-264-2888; Fa;( 610-264-3179

Persormelofthisofficeareinvestigatingacomplianceincidentconcerningtheoperationof

**!Rme<i-fr~~~** EndlessIvlountainSAir,Inc. Speci11cally,wear-erevievvingcrev-vqualifications·notbeing · compliedwitbinaccordancewith14CFR 135.293, 135.299.Operationsofthistypeare contrarytoFederalAviationRegulations. ThisistoirrformyouthattbeFederalAviationAiliuinistration(FAA)is investigatingtbis matter.vVewishtoofferyoua_11opportunityto discusstheincidentinperson, orsubmita vvrittenstatementwitbin 10 days followingreceiptofthisletter.Ymrrstatement

**shoul~cdiu~~"-l~~~'-'­** aJlpertin::enti'a-cts-an--cr--any"mltlg-atingcirtlliDstancesyoil·b-eheve:mafliEiVeabearingOn incident.Ifwedo nothearfromyouwitbinthe specifiedtime,wewillprocessthismatter vvithoutthebenefitofyourstatement. Ifyouhaveanyquestionsregardingthismatter,pleasecontactmeat(610)264-2888, extension229. Sincerely, Ha1-ryN.Soudas Avie.tionSafe!:';InspectorMr.HarryN, Soudas AviationSafetyInspector FederalAviationAdministration AllentownFlightStandardsDistrictOffice 961 MarconBoulevard,Suite lll Allentovvn,PA 18109
RE:FileNo.:2012EA050008 Dear

### Mr: Soudas, .:i 

### SeamansAirport u 

### 727WindsockLane ,Fact:oryvi/!e, PA 18419 Phone:570.9455125 Fax:570.945.7222 http:jjwww.seamansairportcom

ThankyouformeetingwithmyselfandourPICRandyPalmeronJanuary 18' 1' ;,vith regardstoyouroffice'scomplianceincidentinvestigationandourevidentnon conformancewith 14CFR 135.293and 135.299. ---As-Jise-ussedanr:I-trs"l:er!EiTleil-Jlil-6ur

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**t-~Ur lac}~** ofc..o1npleteunderstanding

ofbot"t 14CFR 135.293 and 135.297,weerroneouslyoperatedunderPart 135 fora numberofchartertripsduringthemonthsofSeptemberandOctober2011,withMr. Palmerbeingoverdueforhis 135.293 annualcheckride. As statedinourmeeting,myselfandMr.Palmerwereinitiallyunsureas towhethera 135.293checkridewasrequiredattheendAugust2011. Mr.Palmerhadmadeanumber ofattemptsinlateAugust/earlySeptembertocontact!Vlr.RobertFerenceofyouroffice forclarificationbutnnfotiunately,Mr.PalmerandMr.Ferencekeptmissingeachother's ';::nlls. lVlr. Pal1nerandIrhendecidedtorefertothr;;regulationsagainand

### v;eleftoffvvith the opinionthathis04/1 !!20ll, 135.297checkrideandsubsequentuseoftheautopilot 'Were sufficientforhimtohavequalifiedforhis 135.293checkride. lJnfortunately,our interpretationYY'asli'Vrong. Afterconsultingwithyourself,Mr.FerenceandlVIr. Ghidiuatommeeting,wenov\'have acompleteunderstandingoftheseregulationsandwillensurethatwecomnlvwiththem. **~** '--' '--' -'-

**~** Pleas.ealsobeadvised

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**l~**ursray_,: -eoillElT)'_/... .Thankyouforyourhelpandassistancewiththismatter. Ifyouhaveanyquestions, pleasedon'thesitatetocalL Sincerely, /

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.

- ----------- ; / .; 

# /07/26/07 2150.38 (I) VIOLATIONCOMMITTEDBYU.S. AIRCARRIERSORU.S.COMMERCIAL OPERATOR. CLASSIFICATIONOFAIRCARRIERANDOPERA TOR GROUPI-Eachaircarrieroperatingunderpart 121 orpmt135,withan annual operatingrevenueof$100,000,000ormore. Operatingrevenueis determinedby referencetoDOT's "AirCa..rrierIndustryScheduledServiceTraffic StatisticsQuarterly." Seehttp://ostp:(web.dot.;zov/aviation/index.html,andclickon"AirlineFinancial Revievv." GROUPII-Eachaircarrierorcommercialoperatoroperatingunderpart 121 withan annualoperatingrevenueoflessthan$100,000,000,orunderpart 135withanannual operatingrevenueoflessthan$100,000,000,ifthe 135 operatorhas50ormorepilots and 25ormoreaircraftonitsoperationsspecifications. Operatingrevenueis determinedby referencetoDOT's "AirCarrierIndustr;ScheduledServiceTraffic StatisticsQuarterly." GROUPIII-Eachaircarrierorcommerciq.loperatoroperatingunderpart 135with6to 4 9pilotsor6to24aircraft. GRO-UPIV- Eachaircarrierorcommercialoperatoroperatingunderp8It l35·withno morethan5pilots andnomorethan5aircraft. GROUP!-Targebusinessconcern(forviolationsonorafter 12/12/03) Maximum $18,750-$25,000 f\.1oderatc $10,00D-$18,749

------i_\4inimum- ,bl,OOCl..-$-9,999--- GROUPI- smallbusinessconcern(forviolationscoveredunder49U.S.C. §46301(a)(5)(A)thatoccurredafter6/15/06): Maximum Moderate Iv!ini.mum .$8,250-$11,000 $4,400-$8,249 $1,!00-$4,399 GROUPI- smallbusinessconcern(forviolationscoveredunder49U.S.C. §46301(a)(S)(A)thatoccurredfrom 12/12/03 until6115/06): Maximum Moderate Minimum $7,500-.$10,000 $4,000-$7,499 $L000-$3,999

8-407/26/07 2150.38 GROUPI- small businessconcern(forviolationscoveredunder49 U.S.C. § 4630l(a)(l)(A)or (B)butnotunder49U.S.C. §4630l(a)(5)(A)thatoccurredonorafter 12/12/03): Maximum Moderate Minimum $850-$1'100 $650-$849 $500$649 GROUPII-largebusinessconcern(forviolationsonorafter 12112/03): Maximum Moderate Minimum $16,250-$25,000 $8,750-$16,249 $1,850-$8,749 GROUPII- smallbusinessconcern(forviolationscoveredunder49 U.S.C. § 4630l(a)(5)(A)thatoccurredafter6/15/06): Maximum Moderate lvEnimur..n $8,250-$11,000 $3,850-$8,249 $935-$3,849 GROUPII- smallbusinessconcern(forviolationscoveredunder49U.S.C. § 46301(a)(5)(A)thatoccurredfrom 12/12/03until6115/06): Maximum Moderate Minimum $6,500-$10,000 $3,500-$6,499 $850-$3,499 GROUPII- smallbusinessconcern(forviolationscoveredunder49U.S.C. § 46301(a)(l)(A)or(B)butnotunder49U.S.C. §46301(a)(5)(A)thatoccurredonorafter 12/12/03): Maximum Moderate Minimu.;n $750-$1,100 $450-$ 749 $250$ 449 GROUPIII-forYiolationscoveredunder49U.S.C. §46301(a)(5)(A)that

**oc·~urred** after 6115106: Maximum Moderate Minimum $7,150-$1LOOO $3,300-$7,149 $825-$3.299

8-5 

# ' " iil 

# "' "' 

# '"

**~** EXHlElT 

# L-1r ' 

# V"e:v 

# 2cf'

,07/26/07 2150.38 GROUPIII-forviolationscoveredunder49 U.S.C.§4630l(a)(5)(A)thatoccUlTedfrom 12/12/03until6/15/06: Maximum Moderate Minimum $5,500-$10,000 $3,000-$5,499 $750-$2,999 GROUPIII-forviolationscoveredunder49U.S.C. §46301(a)(l)(A)or(B) butnot under49 U.S.C.§46301(a)(5)(A)thatoccurredonorafter 12/12/03: Maximum Moderate Minimuin $650-$1,100 $400-$ 649 $150-$ 399 GROUPIV-forviolationscoveredtmder49U.S.C. §46301(a)(5)(A)thatoccurredafter 6/15/06: Maximum fVIoderate MinimLim $4,400-$11'000 $2,200-$4,399 $550-$2,199 GROUPIV-forviolationscoveredunder49 U.S.C. §4630l(a)(5)(A)thai occurredfrom 12/12/03until6/l5/06: fv1axirrlUtTl Moderate Minimum $4,000-$10,000 $2,000-$3,999 $500-$1'999 ----GROUp-ftf·-forviotations-covereGlrrider

**49U.S.c.-~ 46J01~a)(** !)(A)

# or(B)butnot under49U.S.C. §4630l(a)(5)(A)thatoccurredonorafter 12/12/03:

**~1aximum** Moderate Minimum $500-$1,100 $300-$499 $100-$299 (2) VIOLATIONCOMMITTEDBYPARTP9OPERATOR(forviolationsonorafter 12/12/03). Maximum Moderate Minimum $18,750-$25,000 $10,000-$18,749 $2,000-$9,99907/26/07 2150 38 1. U.S.AIRCARRIERS,U.S.COMMERCiALOPERATORS,PART 125OPERA.TORS, ANDPART129OPERATORS. Fig.B-1-a. MaintenanceManual CivilPenalty Certificat,e

**A~tior** (1) Failuretomaintaincurrentman\illl Miitimum Upto 7-day suspenswn (2) Failuretoprovideadequate ModeratetoMaximum instmctionsandproceduresin manual (3) Failuretodistributemanualtoappropriatepersolll!el MinimumtoModerate ( 4) Releaseofaircraftwithoutrequiredequipment Moderateto Maximum Upto 7-day susgension

. Fig.B-1-b. AIWDirective CivilPenalty CertifkateAdio (1) Failuretocomply ModeratetoMaximum Fig.B-1-c. OnerationsSJ:ledfir,.tions CivBPenait-,· Certif}cateActi'. (1) Exceedinspectionoroverhaultimelimitation Moderate Upto 7-day suspenswn
- (2) Operationcontrarytoops specs-technical I\1inirnum noncomj)liance (3) Operationcontrarytoopsspecs-likelypotentialor Moderateto Maximum actualadverseeffectonsafeoperation 

# •

< -

Fi .B-1-d. FacHiti<esandE ui ment -:--c------:I_,C=hcc·i=-1"-P-=e=n=a'-'ltv"-' 

### -------1~-C=e=-rt::if~i-=c=a':::"'=-"":c:"c::c=tlcc:_ 1(I) Failuretoprovideadequatel}'for_p_roperservicing,__ **Ma~imum**_ Imiefinite---· --

maintenance,rej:mir;-orinspection offacilities and Suspensionuntil equipment properserv1cmg. maintenance,repa andinspectionof facilitiesand equipmentis

8-16 

## I**provide~**to

. Revocation07/26/07 2150.38 Fig.B-1-e. Maint.enanceandInspectionOrganization CivilPenalty 

### (!) Failuretoprovideormaintainamaintenanceand Maximum inspectionorganization


## I Fig.B-1-f. TrainmcrProgram CivilPenalty (I) Failuretohavetrainingprogram Maximum (2) Failuretomaintaintrainingprogram Moderateto Maximum (3) Failirretotrainpersonneladequately Moderateto Maximmn Fig.B-1-g. MaintenanceorAircraftPaiJ.envork CivilPenalty (1) Incompleteorunsignedrelease Minimwnto Maximum c-'-:

. 

### . 1(2) Fmluretorev1se aledataafterrepmr 

### Il'vwderatetoMax1mum 

# I Fi"'.B-1-h. PerformanreofMaintenance CivilPenalty 

### (!) Byunauthorizedperson Maximum 

### (2) Failmetoperformorimpropermaintenance Moderateto **~¥1aximum** 

## I FJg. B-1-i. SFAR36 I rh:il

**P.a.n"!Jlt>~r** l_ ..._,....

**~** "'"' ... ""' ...........! (1) Failuretocomply-,secondoft-ense____

. 1Maximum ----- Fiu.B-1-i. RecordsandReports CivilPenalty (1) Deliberateviolation (a) Intentionallyfalseorfraudulententry, reproduction,oralterationinrecordor report (b) Other 7 

### .. 0 

# . I(-) Fmluretomakeacemateme,hanlcalimerruptlOn

summaryreport ,Moderateto Max1mum 

## I (3) Failureto makeavailablereportofmajoralterationor

## IModerateto Ma'Ximum repair [ 

### I 

# • 1 (4) failure toma.l.;_e acc;uratemecha'licalreliabilityreport Moderateto Maximuin 

### I(5) Failureto make

**reqi,ir~d**entryinaircraftlog MinimumtoMaximum

. [ 8-'17 Certifi·cateActio Indefinite Suspensionuntil appropriate maintenanceand inspection organizationis providedto Revocation CertificateActi{ Indefinite Suspensionuntil complianceto Revocation
CertificateActi(
CertifkaieActi{

CertificateActi.c Revocation 180-daySuspensi to Revocation Indefinite Suspensionto Revocation07/26/07 EX 

# G--7-r



# ~ Flo.B-1-", Records& R.e;oorts cont. (6) Failuretomakeavailablepilotrecord (7) Failureto mal:eavailableloadmanifest (8) Failuretomonitorandrecordemouteradio communication Fig;B-1-k DispatchandFlightReleaseRules (1) Anyviolationofsubpa,'iUof14CFRpart 121 Fig.B-1-l. Qperationofunainvorthyaircraft (1) Technicalnon-conformitytoTC;no likelyeffecton

**s::~fe op~ration**  2150.38 CivilPenal Moderateto Maximum ModeratetoMaximum ModeratetoMaximum CivilPenalty ModeratetoMaximum CivilPenalty_ Minimum CertifkateA

**~tio** Indefinite Suspensionto Revocation Inde±1nite Suspensionto Revocation

CertificateActi' CertificateActir (2) Non:conformitytoTCthatmayhave, orhas,adverse ModeratetoMaximum effectonsafeoperation 

### L (3) Releaseofaircraftwithoutrequiredequipment ! ModeratetoMaximum Upto 7-day I **suspen~ion** .Fig.B-1-m. Provisionsspecificto passernger-carrying CiYilPenalty Certi:lkateAcH1



### - (I) Boarding,orservingalcoholicbeverageto, aperson Maximum whoap_lJearstobeintoxicated I (2) Failuretobriefpassengers ModeratetoMaximum (3) Failuretoensureseatfu"ldbeltforeachpassenger Maximum

.(4) 'ipl . ' )p< ' ' pl' '. , , . v erat1onw;oo· eraDle uoucaoaresssystem Maximum 

### I (5) Failureto-storebaggageyruperly

-- ---- ------rlfoderate

-- 

### T Fi<>,B-1-n. PmvislonsSj}ed.fictofli"Mdeckcrew CivilPemally Certjfi.cateA<:li· (1) Useofcrewmemberwithe)(]Jiredmedicalcertificate Minimumto Moderate (2) Failuretomakeflightdeckseatavailableto Maximum authorizedemouteinspector (3) Useofunqualifiedcrewmember Maximum 

### (4) FlightandDutyTimeviolation Moderate 

### IFig.B-1-o. Other!")'43Yisions CiYilPenalty C.erti.fi.c.ateActi

(l) ImproperlyReturningAircrafttoservice Ma;ximum 

### I(2) Illegalcarriageofcontrolledsubstancewith Revocation i

**kno~vvledge**ofcarrier,thatis,knovvledgeof,or 

# J i inv>h'PffiP·nt-i--: con;l-1 lCtby +nrmanarr·o.-;-"O'""jpnt DF>"SQ!JTI""l 

# l

,_ u, ',"

**~,.** u,, ,u. "jJ , . ,;ob- , , -• h -· 

### Ii3) Use

**a~**unqualifiedpersonnelotherthfu"lt1ightdeck Ma··dmum 

### I

creY>,/ffiernoer 

### I

- B-18EXHIBITA

**~'-"'** 0

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# -

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. · r-M135 

### /JI3E. ... . . ·.·

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## / FAR 135.2g; / 

# I ·.



## 'i:>tq{_hf~/L. J{JANd•./ /1. FAR '35.293 Q./ FAR 135.2:99.0 Yi" .

. Grd< (!pltjme;e,e'"'-- MEDICAL ii\IFORMATIOI\'; OotoofEK•m. frlt4/1'3,

**:J.,~**tlJ 

## I <;ERTIF!CATIOO Dotoota;..n/{9/,.J.J.

**•i'TS"~** ·
**ll~FORw.ATIOI\': Mum~r**  j'

### ;:I</.'};)_./'/ Cl2« 

## Ject>...,:/. ··S'-'tPLOYEO BY

**~0**AT

**(CitY~** Statf>) TYPEA.lRPLAWE(Make/Model) 

### .J/t-Olo i£;vdle.w /17/--u.J. fill'/ • 

### -eAm"""'•·

**fi,d~·~**

### r

**Simuktorrrr~ining** Oavice(Make/Model} :liiAW;EOFCHECK

**A!RMAI~** ·. SIG.OFCHECK1\!RWiM! FLIGHTTIME

. 

# J .·.·· . 

## /.3 Nw<le.P.

. ·. . .. FLIGHTMA.l\!EUVERSGRADE

**IS~**S..tmacwry u Umati#actoTY} .·_. !>!LOT •.



# Tr~.~ 

# ... A.ir·

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**Sim~-**

# ·=· cr..ft latar D... .··' ' :. ·

# ... · _·.· ' .

. ··-··..· crzft

**J~tar** De_v. 1 

## .·. ... 

## .

## . PR!:f(i;lHT

. HELICOPTER 

## ••

**Eq~m&nt E::iintkw:I~({J£;_J-ii}w'n_tten)**  $.

.1•. Ground_s:rd/Gr.P.irY£ni 

## v 2. ?rifUrhtInspeCtiOn 

## s 2. HovM"ifli!Manu6\"tt:tt 3. 'fc;xitnu 

## .. . ..· .::> ·3. No-rmal·&

**C~ind:**T.0.&. Landings 

### t l..

**P~wsrplcn~ ChGcl~~**  ..-..·. •· 

### . 

### :. 

## s

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**Loncl'~s** f ' 

## .. :.• .TAKEOFfS . ·. t

**!:i~**·Sim._ Enig;ineFailure:

. S. Nonn'" ·_.· ·· · ·



## ·~····· .

### .. 

## ... ... 

# .s B. ConfinedArlist,Slopes,&Pinnacies;

. I 

### ' S. lmtrument .·

# .. ···• ' 

### •· . s, 7.- R.ep-ktOeCt;derstiOn.(QuickStops) 

### .. 7,

**-C«i-~ind** . ·.· 

# .. .

## s 8. Aut:o_wtatiofls (SingliJEngine) S.•.WithSil'nu1U&d_

**Po\v~htnt FBUu.rii~**  \. 

### <"' 

### I:9. Hovering;

**A~rato::tiom** {Single Ehgine}

.2. R&je:ttd

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**(Or~/**orFlight}



### ~----. 

### I 

## i ' 10. Stooil·Tur!1S. .· . !'-; I SEAPLANEOPERA TIOI\!S I

**-~**t..**Appro·~chias-** tQ.·sta"s . ' e,. !

- . 1.

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### i 

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# 1-r •..... Pal'I.""-"'"PkntFailure 

### iS 

### J 3. GIB$SV/R.cughWaterT.OJLancli_f&JS '
· ..· LANO_fl\!GS 

### •• Wcrme-tTakeoff& l..i!nding-: I 'it., N:ort11t"t. .. :·· 

### . . .· .,.l.._ I 5.. CI"OS$WindT,0.& Lir.-ndings i

# -- I .·· 15.-Fram-an_ILS' .--· ·. ' ... ·.S. '

. OTHER c .· 1G..·Crcm:'tii.•ind ·····

. 

### <> '6. SkiPtanto<.-Op-s. (when applicable} 

# v I I

.. '\1. Witb·Simulate.d

**PQ\oWtP~ltst Fiilur~-**  - -- · 

## v-

**·.~**

### .. GENERAL

. ! ·\8.

**R~ltr-te<! Li<nd~** ••·.· ·····.•
..

**-1~ --7.--·-Jud~moot**  - .-- IS-I- I I · 1.£.

**Fmrr~_CirclirQ-AppfGu:fl;** ·. .. ' . 

### l<> S. CrewCoqrdination

**~** l i I

.•. EI\!IERGI:l\!CI!IS AIB;MA.NCOMPETENCY INFORMAXIO!\l: 2.0._ **i~arm~:-l**'-R9A.bnom\d

**~rGcadu.nt~>** I'"> l l 

### . 2.1.

**Enw;l"(l(en..-y'fTOcscW~** 

### ..1-.S. I ! O.emoMt.rc®dCummt.KncwltidF6 FAR·'i35.2S3fL} INSTRUMENTPf(CCEDURES . Mf..ke-/Mo.delExp-ires: (12months} I I 22. A""Dop.:rtur:G -D§mon-straedCo.mpettm:y FAR 135.29:3(hl 

# I 23, Ha-kiillg_ 

# " f{.ake/Modcl Explret (12mam;m; ( 

# - )

.. - .... ·

**24~.**A.rfs."A:rri\!d . ..·· .. .

**~** &ti:Sff:lrrtorUy Demonst.raw:::f

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**.135.~.**Expiro;; (1:2monthd I

# - I 2S. ILSApprcliOh"' 

# I

.26.. Othti.r

**ln~;trument**ApPri,..acher .

### ..,.

**Sat~actorlly**o·e.monstratedfFRProficiency



### {_~,f..l/. A.flproactie;;: 1\!DB{AI:>F 

### -I FAR 135.297

**Expin>~** ( 6-monthsl l

_...LOC- Ql. 'I 

# s UseofAutoPilot(is-i lisrwtl

**Autfttl.riz~.** \ 

# IJ ILS \:.lLI''-/

### t..1-\

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## . Othor(Specify)C,P.£ \3 

## ..s REW.A.RK!l 

# I

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**-~·-** 

## t3£:z97ek. :

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## A/Jt·.c-

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**SEti~h.ctorv** , **""'l-(~CtO:.** .. .--·O:D-"!$t.pprovecl" P.ERFORfdA.NCElfAA Only} D-UnrAt'iSfactorv

**REGtOi~** 

## ..... Ol$fFUCTOFFlCE 

# FAA

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# J. ·. EXHIBIT .. .' p,.,v . . • . .

# s

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# c 

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### .PAJ '" L:> J?ANOY 

### A 

# r Grl>d• /',., **·~A-~A-**

**-~ =-:~~~Y"**  Numl>or _-:? :, .dQ ? J4

**.~ ~ED**  BY AT(City,Statol

PILOT

.

5, Norm•! 6.

. 7. B. WithI : 9. :Tolcwff

10. StoepTurns 1-

n. 'Stalls

_?••lllcFlight·

.

**!~-.** 1\!ormol ' 15. 1Ill!

!B. 17. With 1Foiluro 111. ILondlno 111. FromCirclfnlp 

### .:;, 

### > 

## '-""' 

## ,_..,..

./ / .

%0, Normolond, 21. 

### 1/T I I/ I I 22........, '22. liolditm •2(, AmArrlvcl

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· VOR

_ . ILS 27. ·26.MI-,

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### .REDID:_, 

# - ./ ff' 

## .s: _/ / / i!.P<4 9AI-.. £/
OApp'"m )<i'Dioopprom /

1uou OFFICE FAR 135,28a 0 FAR 135.291

## Jt/ FAR 135.299 0 "'u••: OotoofE•am.;S/13/Z0/0 

## I DateofBirth /..

### I"';>I I .. ''"' cr...**s~** 'L> ITVPE .. M.

**.5"_~** ZD "" TIME A;.. "'mu· "llll· 

### I

**cr~ft** lator Oev. 

### "'"'

. 1.

### G•••"". "- ·Told ,.- 2.

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. .Wo ION/I Iii:s;;;;u;;;.WkhPuwer(OralorFlill'htl_ I V

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## &: !T.O.& 'V , OTH_IlR 6.Skil ,(When· 1../1 I GFNI<RAI 7. I I -t a.

### e:,;,,

**~r** 1 AIRMANCOMPETENCY **INFORMATIOf~:** Current.KnowredQ'G FAR 'IK
**~~,.,,** : 112i t FAR {1a I iLirmChecl:• 112 

# ,_ 'FR Profialea:v I I I I 6manthol I

-I 'tid{lon<>tlAuthorized. l12manthsl (
- I

**-~.-.**

# -··ftI3

## s: z? 7 

### c;...,.,."-4' ,11/ D.../.,.;./ L"'.,..,.
CHECKAIRMAN'S Q.Satl<l•otol'l' PERFORMANCE (FAA Only/ 

### Jll U... tlifactary FMINSPECTOR"•SIGNATURE 

# kF~A•Aft~~~.~:-~~s~~-;;~.4;~~-.a-t"I·--·--··-----J--.--- ..

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# J~~~~~/~,-~y-~~;?:.;=P:'~,N~T·IN~G:~o.~~~~~;,,;,,;,_~,;;,;~

### EXHI\31113

. ·. AIRMAN COMPETENCY/PROFICIENCYCHECK

### Ito~~./**OATE;;c~j~** FAR 135 

## ?cT ){ 2S 

### 13

## ~pOf:R;N

## ~/7/:~ 

# 7:initili ' ffvPEOFCHECK FAR 135.293 QJC FAR 135.297 S FAR 135.2!19 )lij; Pl..-._. Grade 

### /C 1/Jm ""'tfl-·,'"L 

### P1&f- MEDICAL IN**FORMA~** D•teofExam. 

### s)2o/zo13 CERTIFICATION O•t•oiBirth t?C 

## Z<-)sz_ INFORMATION: Nuonbe<**~** 3'-/9'21 L{ Class f"..,.co,-,/ EMPLOYEDBY BASEDAT**(City~**State} TYPEAIRPLANE (Mako/Mode/} 

### C i ...-rv;. 

## s£-zo &/JI/t>.ss

# m f5/J,, 

# .Inc Feuforvv,/(tp

### flf Simulator/TrainingDevice**(Make/Mode~)** NAMEOF**CJ:!~CK**AIRMAN SIG.OFCHECKAIRMAN FLIGHT

# Tli.

# .c:- Na2'1cf> FLIGHTMANEUVERSGRADE (S Sstisfac<YNV U Unsatisfactory} PILOT Air• Simu- Tmg. Air- Slmu· Trng. 

# """' ._, Dew • croft lator Dov. PREFLIGHT HELICOPTER 1. EquipmentExamination(Oral orwrittBn} <;• 1. Groundand/orAirTaxi \ 2. PreflightInspection 5' 2. HoveringManuevers \ 3. Taxiing 

## s 3. Normal& CrosswindT.0.&: Landings 4. Powerplant**~** · 

### .. 

## s 4. HighAltitudoTokooffsS. Londi- \ TAKEOFFS 5. Sirn, EngineFailure \ 5, Norm.. 6. ConfinedArus..Slopes,&:Pinnacles \ 6. lnstnunem ( 7. Rapid**~ion** (QuickSrops) 7. Croswind**~** 8. Autorotationt/SingleEngine} 8. WithSimu1atadPowerpfantFailure 

# - 9. HoveringAumrotations{SingleEngine} \ 9. RejectedTakeoff c; 10. TailRotorFailures(Oral} \ INFUGHTMANEUVERS 11. SettlintWithPower {OralorFlight) 10. SteepTurns. 5 SEAPLANEOPERATIONS '!"!.**~~t=Stalls** 5 1. Taxiing.Seiling.Docking 

# '

- .<; t: Aific.FlightCharect•istics 2. Stap."Tax-i&Turrt5 - 13. I"'C....,....tFailure 

# " 3. Glassy/RoughWaterT.OJLandings 

# "' LANDINGS

. 4. NormelTlllr.eaff& Landings 

# "' ' 14.**Norm~l** 

# ' 5. CI'O$SWindT.0.&Landingr 

# "' 15. FromanJJ..S 

### .s:- OTHER 16. CfOBI'find 

## .s 6. SkiPlaneOps. (whenapplicable} I 17. WithSimulatedPowerPtant(s) Failure 

# ·- GENERAL 18. RejectedL11nding 

# > 7. Judgment I .S I l 19. FromCirelingApproach 5 8. CrewCoordination I 

# ., EMERGENCIES 20. NormalandAbnormalProcedures IS I 

### 1 AIRMAN COMPETENCY INFORMATIONo 21.**Emert~encv** Procadures 

### 1'1 1 DemonstratedCurrent Knowledge FAR 135.293taJ 

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# Adventure,Commerce,andService Weliveinacomplexworld,andthere'snot muchwecandotochangethatreality.Butwhenit comestosuchbasicthingsasourmissionstatement, short,sweet,andsimpleistheonlywaytogo.That's whyIpushedforadoptionofanewFlightStaudards Servicemissionstatement,onethatexplainsthe what,thewhy,andthewhoofwhatwedoinaway thateveryonecaneasilyremember.Ourmissionis: Toassurethesafety,whileenablingtheadven**ture~**commerceandserviceof aviation. Forme,andIhopeforyou,thissimplestatementcapturestheessenceandtheheartofwhat theFAAFlightStandardsServiceischargedtodo. Butletmetakeamomenttotalkabouttheindividualelements. Adventure:Aviationisverymuchaboutadventure, andabouthavingfun-thefocusofthisissueofFAA SafetyBriefingmagazine.MuchofwhattheFAAdoes isnecessarilyassociatedwithcommercialaviation, soIput"adventure"rightatthebeginningofthe missionstatement.Iwanttobesureweremember thatenablingthefun,adventure,andpassionof personalflyingisalsoanimportantpartoftheFAA's aviationsafetymission. Commerce:TheFAA'smissionwithrespecttocommercialaviationisbetterknown,andunderstandably so.Civilaviationcontributes$1.3trilliontoour economyandgeneratesmorethan10millionjobsin theUnitedStatesalone.Millionsofpeopletravelby aireachday,andtheworkwedocontributestomakingouraviationsystemtheenvyoftheworld. Service:Aviationservesnotonlyournation's economy,butalsotheAmericanspiritofserviceaud volunteerism.Oursafetyworkeuablesandfacilitates thekindofserviceperformedthroughprogramslike BAA'sYoungEagles,GraceFlight,Pilots'nPaws,and nlliilerousothers. Safety:Assuringsafetymightseemtobethemost obviouscomponentofourmissionstatement,but Iwanttospendalittlemoretimeexplainingthe nuancesofoursafetyrole. TheFlightStandardsServicehasthreemain safetyfunctions:settingthecertificationstandards forairmenandoperators;issuingcertificationbased onthosestandards;andconductingoversightand surveillanceofcertificateholderstoassurecontinuedoperationalsafety.

·-ThoughtheFAAclearlyhasasignificantrole inassuringcontinuedoperationalsafety,everyone bearsthatresponsibility.TheFAAcannot

**~'inspect** safetyintothesystem:'Itisthedutyofeachindividualandeachorganizationthatwecertificatetooperateinaccordancewiththeestablishedstandards. Theagency'sroleistoverifythatcertificateholders continuetomeetstandards. TheFAAhasawiderangeoftoolstoperform thefunctionsassociatedwithcontinuedoperational safety.Becauseenforcementisthemostobvious tool,itisoftenthefirsttobeused.Mymessagetothe FAA'sinspectorworkforce,though,isthatenforcementmaynotbethemosteffectivemeansofachievingcomplianceand,moreimportantly,itmaynotbe thebestwaytoachieveourgoalofpromotingsafety. Infact,Ibelievethatanenforcement-onlyapproach iscounterproductive.Itobscuresthegoalofachievingsafetycompliance.Itmissesopportunitiesto educate.Itundermineseffortstodevelopastrong safetyculture.ItwastesFAAaudindustryresources. Anditdilutesourabilitytofocusonrealrisk. Mystaffisworkingonupdatedguidancefor ourinspectorsthatoutlinesamorethoughtful approach.Thekeyquestioniswhatbestserves oursafetypromotiongoal.Enforcementshouldbe reservedforeventsandincidentswhereintentional disregard,flagrantsafetyviolations,dangerous complacency,oroutrightstupidityposeasystemic threattocontinuedoperationalsafetyinaviation. Foranuninteutionalinfraction,Iwantinspectors tofirstseekresolutionviapositive,correctiveaction thatmostlikelywouldincludeadditionaleducation andskillstraining. Thankyouforthepassionyouhaveforaviation safety,andforhelpingtokeeptheadventure,commerce,andserviceofaviationaliveandwell.
July/August2012 Safety•' ··ENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC 727 WINDSOCK LANE FACTORYVILLE PA 18419

WILLIAM DOBITSCH RR 2 BOX 2113 FACTORYVILLE PA 18419

pay 12d Code

WILLIAM RR 2 BOX 2113 FACTORYVILLE DOBITSCH PA 18419 ENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC 727 WINDSOCK LANE FACTORYVILLE PA

name. WILLIAM DOBITSCH RR 2 BOX 2113 FACTORYVILLE PA

23500.00 Statement DAA**~~~** 2-To Be FiledWith Employee's State, Ci orlocalIncome Tax Return. a Employee'ssoc. sec. no. 1 wages, tips, other camp. 23500.00 3 Social security wages b Employer ID number (EIN) 23SOO.OO 5 Medicarewages and tips 23500.00 c Employer's name, address, and ZJP code

ENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC 727 WINDSOCK LANE FACTORYVILLE PA d Control number 1 e Employee's name, address, and ZIP code

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18419

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## I 41-0852411 OMB No_ 1545-0008 2 Federal income tax withheld 4 Social security taxwithheld 987.00 6 Medicare taxwithheld 340.81

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# I, 721.51 17 State income tax 20 Locality name 66 Dept. ofthe Treasury-- IRSENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC DBA SEAMANS AIRPORT 727 WINDSOCK LANE FACTORYVILLE

WILLIAM RR 2 BOX 2113 FACTORYVILLE DOBITSCH

ENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC DBA SEAMANS AIRPORT 727 WINDSOCK LANE FACTORYVILLE

WILLIAM RR2 BOX2113 FACTORYVILLE DOBITSCH PA 18419

PA 18419

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PA 18419

597.18

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ENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC DBA SEAMANS AIRPORT 727 WINDSOCK LANE FACTORYVILLE

WILLIAM RR 2 BOX 2113 FACTORYVILLE

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PA 20 Locality name 66 Dept.ofthe Treasury-- IRS

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597.18

Dept. ofthe Treasury-- IRSENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC 727 WINDSOCK LANE FACTORYVILLE

WILLIAM RR 2 BOX2113 FACTORYVILLE

WILLIAM RR 2 BOX2113 FACTORYVILLE DOBITSCH

DOBITSCH PA 18419

PA 18419

PA 18419 ENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC 727 WINDSOCK LANE PA

name. WILLIAM DOBITSCH RR 2 BOX 2113 FACTORYVILLE PA

DAA

**~::e!** 2-To Be Filed With Employee's State, Ci or Local Income Ta Return. a Employee's soc. sec. no. 1 Wages, tips, other comp. 1750.00 3 Social securitywages b Employer ID number (EIN) 1750.00 5 Medicarewages and tips 1750.00 c Employer's name, address, and ZIP code

ENDLESS MOUNTAINS AIR, INC 727 WINDSOCK LANE FACTORYVILLE PA d Control number 1 e Employee's name, address, and ZIP code

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