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1 Environmental Protection Agency 

2 

3 

4 

5 

6 Public Hearing on the 

7 PROPOSED FEDERAL PLAN AND MODEL RULES FOR THE 

8 POWER PLAN FOR EXISTING POWER PLANTS 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 9:05 a.m. to 7:28 p.m. 

14 Monday, November 16, 2015 

15 

16 EPA Region 8 Office 

17 1595 Wynkoop Street 

18 Denver, CO 80202 

19 

20 

21 

22 
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1 MORNING SESSION 

2 EPA Panel: 

3 JENNY NOONAN, Chair; 

4 Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 

5 

6 CATE HIGHT, 

7 Office of Atmospheric Programs 

8 

9 LAURA FARRIS, 

10 Climate Change Coordinator 

11 

12 

13 AFTERNOON SESSION 

14 EPA PANEL: 

15 CALLIE VIDETICH, Chair; 

16 Assistant Regional Administrator, Region 8 

17 

18 NICK SWANSON, 

19 Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 

20 

21 ETHAN AUMANN, 

22 EPA, Region 8 
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1 EVENING SESSION 

2 EPA PANEL: 

3 JENNY NOONAN, Chair; 

4 Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 

5 

6 CATE HIGHT, 

7 Office of Atmospheric Programs 

8 

9 NICK SWANSON, 

10 Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 

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1 C O N T E N T S 

2 PUBLIC COMMENTS PAGE 

3 Morning Session 

4 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 9 

5 STEVE TOMAC, Basin Electric 18 

6 DAVID ELLENBERGER, National Wildlife 24 

7 Federation 

8 JAMES LUIDL, Sierra Club 29 

9 LAURA COMER, Sierra Club 32 

10 JEFF CAPPELLA, Western Clean Energy 35 

11 Campaign 

12 JOHN MORRIS, Citizen 40 

13 JAKE BLACK, Citizen 41 

14 TOM PLANT, Advanced Energy Economy 48 

15 LAUREN POOLE, Energy Efficiency Coalition 56 

16 MEG MORRIS, National Wildlife Federation 58 

17 CURT HUBER, American Lung Association 62 

18 TYLER SVITAK, American Lung Association 66 

19 ANDY WILDENBERG, E3 Power 69 

20 ZABRINA ARNOVITZ, Rights for all People 71 

21 COLLEEN COPE, Citizen 73 

22 JANICE ZINKL, Citizen 75 
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1 PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 

2 RON LEHR, Citizen 77 

3 CAROL DAVIS, Citizens Against Ruining 82 

4 Our Environment 

5 R.J. HARRINGTON, Sustainable Action 85 

6 Consulting 

7 KIM STEVENS, Environment Colorado 89 

8 JAMES HUGHES, Citizen 93 

9 SANDY BUTTERFIELD, Citizen 96 

10 STEVEN GARRETT SULLIVAN, Citizen 101 

11 PAM EATON, Wilderness Society 104 

12 KARYN WELLER-COFFMAN, Citizen 108 

13 EMILY FISCHER, Citizen 110 

14 NOAH KAPLAN, Citizen 111 

15 JOHN BRINGENBERG, Colorado Solar Energy 114 

16 Industry Association 

17 BILL PECK, Citizen 119 

18 CHRIS DAVIS, Citizen 121 

19 ERICA SHERWOOD, Citizen 123 

20 

21 AFTERNOON SESSION 

22 DIANA ORF, Colorado Mining Association 135 
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1 PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 

2 PHILIP HUFFLEDT, Snowriders 141 

3 International 

4 LAURIE BRATTEN, Congressman Ken Buck 147 

5 LIZA BROWNE, Snowriders International 148 

6 MARY JO ROTH, Great River Energy 150 

7 CHAZ TEDESCO, Adams County Commission 156 

8 JOE MONTOYA, Namaste Solar 159 

9 NOAH TEITELBAUM, Sierra Club 162 

10 TRAVIS MADSEN, Environment America 167 

11 KENT ABERNETHY, Sierra Club 171 

12 STUART SANDERSEN, Colorado Mining 173 

13 Association 

14 GERALD HUNTER, Salt River Project 178 

15 MARK STRAND, Citizen 184 

16 DEBORAH SCHANEMAN, Platte River Power 187 

17 Authority 

18 KARA COOK, Citizen 193 

19 RUSSELL BASSETT, Citizen 196 

20 ALEC SPRAGUE, Citizen 201 

21 PETE KOLDENSCHLAG, Colorado Food and Farm 204 

22 Alliance 
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1 PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 

2 SEAN WORK, Citizen 211 

3 BRYCE CARTER, Sierra Club 216 

4 PATTI BRIONES, Sierra Club 222 

5 KAREN KALAVITY, Sierra Club 225 

6 BECKY ENGLISH, Sierra Club 230 

7 JERRY MULLINS, Citizen 238 

8 EVENING SESSION 

9 JOSIE WOLF, Citizen 251 

10 PRIYANKA KARKI, Net Zero Club 253 

11 MICHAEL SANDOVAL, Independence Institute 256 

12 ABAGAIL BLOOMFIELD and ASHLEY TSENG, 260 

13 Net Zero Club 

14 NANCY STONE, Net Zero Club 265 

15 SIERRA CANTLIFFE, Net Zero Club 267 

16 ELYSSA HOFGARD, Net Zero Club 269 

17 CLARA DRESSELHAUS, Net Zero Club 272 

18 CHRIS APPLEGATE, Citizen 274 

19 TOM BLOOMFIELD, Environmental Defense 277 

20 Fund 

21 DAVID SMALDONE, Friends of Coal West 284 

22 and Utah Mining Association 
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1 PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 

2 MIKE NASI, Balanced Energy for Texas 287 

3 Coalition 

4 JUDY COLGAN, Rocky Mountain Coal Mining 296 

5 Institute 

6 ANDY BERGER, Tri-State Generation and 299 

7 Transmission Association. 

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1 

2 

3 P R O C E E D I N G S 

4 MORNING SESSION 

5 9:05 a.m. 

6 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: you guys are part 

7 of the lucky group. We have hearing today and 

8 tomorrow. Tomorrow there’s supposed to be a 

9 blizzard. So we’re hopeful that that’s going to 

10 go forward, but we have people lined up 

11 throughout the day today until 8:00 this evening, 

12 and then we go until five tomorrow. 

13 This, of course, is the hearing on the 

14 federal plan, the proposed federal plan, and the 

15 model rules for the Clean Power Plan. I stress 

16 to you how important the public hearings are to 

17 our process. When we proposed the Clean Power 

18 Plan, we ended up getting four million comments 

19 on that proposal. And in fact, we had a 

20 listening session, and did quite a bit of 

21 outreach before we proposed the rule. The point 

22 being here is the contributions that you all make 
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1 and that the public has engaged with us in 

2 helping us in the effort has really been a key 

3 part to getting us where we are today. So we 

4 really appreciate you all coming out today and 

5 giving us your input, your thought on this next 

6 step in this process. I thank you for that. 

7 I’m going to just turn it over to Jenny 

8 Noonan. Jenny is our moderator, our facilitator 

9 for the day, and she’s going to walk you through 

10 the day’s events and take it from here. 

11 MS. NOONAN: Thank you, Shawn. 

12 We’re going to have the microphones on in 

13 just a minute, but we didn’t want to delay 

14 things, so we’re just going to -– 

15 Can everyone hear me? 

16 Okay. Great. 

17 So good morning. I’m Jenny Noonan, and I 

18 am the chair of today’s public hearing, and thank 

19 you for coming. Joining me on the panel today 

20 are Cate Hight and Laura Farris. 

21 And I’m going to give a brief summary of 

22 the action that has been proposed. It’s actually 
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1 -– it’s brief-ish. So please bear with me, and I 

2 hope that it will be helpful. If you would like 

3 additional information, there are fact sheets out 

4 on the table out here. 

5 Fossil fuel-fired power plants are 

6 the largest source of US carbon dioxide 

7 emissions, or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 

8 percent of US total greenhouse gas emissions. 

9 Reducing carbon pollution from power plants is an 

10 essential step in lessening the impacts of 

11 climate change, and providing a more certain 

12 future for our environment, our health, and 

13 future generations. 

14 We are here today to listen to your 

15 comments on EPA's proposed federal plan and model 

16 rules to implement the Clean Power Plan for 

17 existing power plants. 

18 On October 23 the US Environmental 

19 Protection Agency published in the Federal 

20 Register its proposed federal plan to implement 

21 emission guidelines for power plants under 

22 section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. EPA's 
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1 111(d) rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 

2 effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 

3 affected power plants that began construction on 

4 or before January 8, 2014. 

5 The federal plan and model trading rules 

6 demonstrate a readily-available path forward for 

7 Clean Power Plan implementation and present 

8 flexible, affordable implementation options for 

9 states. 

10 The model rules provide a cost-effective 

11 pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 

12 the EPA, and make it easy for states and power 

13 plants to use emission trading. It does the 

14 heavy lifting for states who may choose a model 

15 rule as their state plan. EPA would implement 

16 the federal plan in any state that does not 

17 submit an approvable plan. 

18 This proposal includes four discrete 

19 proposed actions: One, a rate-based federal plan 

20 for each state with affected electric generating 

21 units, or EGUs; two, a mass-based federal plan 

22 for each state with affected EGUs; three, a rate-
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1 based model trading rule for potential use by any 

2 state; and, four, a mass-based model trading rule 

3 for potential use by any state. 

4 The proposed federal plans will achieve 

5 the same level of emission performance as 

6 required of state plans under the Clean Power 

7 Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 

8 those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 

9 determines have failed to submit an approvable 

10 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 

11 in the emission guidelines. 

12 In those states where a federal plan may 

13 be required, a final federal plan will implement 

14 the same emission guidelines for affected power 

15 plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 

16 would not require additional control 

17 requirements, or impose additional costs. 

18 Even where a federal plan is put in place 

19 for a particular state, that state will still be 

20 able to submit a plan, which, if approved, will 

21 allow the state and its sources to exit the 

22 federal plan. 
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1 The state may take delegation of 

2 administrative aspects of the federal plan in 

3 order to become the primary implementers, or 

4 submit partial state plans in order to take over 

5 the implementation of a portion of the federal 

6 plan. 

7 States operating under a federal plan may 

8 adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 

9 to facilitate compliance and lower the costs to 

10 the benefit of power generators and consumers. 

11 The proposal also includes a model rule 

12 for those states that are developing their own 

13 state plans. 

14 EPA intends to finalize both the rate15 based and mass-based model trading rules in the 

16 summer 2016. A state program that adheres to the 

17 model trading rule provisions specified in this 

18 rulemaking, when final, would be presumptively 

19 approvable. 

20 There we go. Can everyone hear me better? 

21 There are stand-alone portions of the 

22 model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 
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1 measurement, and verification procedures for 

2 emission rate credits, or ERCs, that would be 

3 approvable even if a state adopted an approach 

4 that differs in other respects from the model 

5 rule. 

6 In addition, the proposal contains a 

7 finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 

8 implement a section 111(d) federal plan for the 

9 affected EGUs located in Indian country. C02 

10 emission performance rates for these facilities 

11 were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. 

12 Information on how the EPA will reach out to 

13 communities throughout the comment period; and an 

14 overview of the actions that EPA is taking to 

15 ensure that vulnerable communities are not being 

16 disproportionately impacted by this rulemaking is 

17 also included in this proposal. 

18 If you would like more details on the 

19 proposed rule, as I mentioned, there are fact 

20 sheets available at the registration desk and 

21 right out here in the hallway. 

22 Before we get started, I'd like to run 
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1 through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 

2 that will help make today's hearing run smoothly. 

3 First, make sure you have checked in at the 

4 registration desk, even if you are not planning 

5 to speak today. And if you signed up to speak 

6 online or by phone, but haven't told us that 

7 you're here, please step out to the registration 

8 desk and let the EPA staff know that you’ve 

9 arrived. 

10 I will be calling the speakers up in 

11 pairs. When your name is called, please come to 

12 the speakers' table at the front of the room. 

13 When I call on you to speak, please state your 

14 name and spell it for the court reporter. Your 

15 comments will be transcribed and included in the 

16 record of comments on the proposed rule. 

17 Each speaker will have five minutes to 

18 give comments. We have a timer light to help you 

19 know how much time you have left to speak. When 

20 the light turns from green to yellow, that means 

21 you have one minute remaining. When it turns to 

22 red, that's a signal that you are at five minutes 
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1 and it’s time to stop. When you are finished 

2 speaking, please remain at the table until the 

3 person next to you has completed his or her 

4 testimony. 

5 Let me just say that again. 

6 When you’re done testifying, wait until 

7 the second person is done, and then you both may 

8 go. 

9 We are here to listen to you today. 

10 However, a panel member may ask clarifying 

11 questions. I will then call up the next pair of 

12 speakers, and so on. 

13 If you have brought a written copy of 

14 your testimony, please give it the court 

15 reporter, or the staff at the registration desk 

16 before you leave today. We will put any written 

17 comments submitted today into the official docket 

18 for the proposed rule. 

19 We will also have comment cards available 

20 at the registration desk, if you would like to 

21 submit additional written comments today. If you 

22 want to comment in writing later, stop by the 
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1 materials table near the registration desk and 

2 pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 

3 written comments. Comments must be received by 

4 January 21, 2016. 

5 Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 

6 much consideration to comments we receive in 

7 writing as we do to comments received in public 

8 hearings such as this one. So if you have more 

9 comments that you would like to provide the EPA, 

10 please submit them by the comment period 

11 deadline. Your comments will be reviewed. 

12 If you have any questions during the day, 

13 please see the staff at the registration desk, 

14 and someone will assist you. 

15 Thank you again for taking the time to 

16 come today to share your comments on EPA’s 

17 proposal. Let's get started. 

18 Our first pair of speakers today will be 

19 Steve Tomac and David Ellenberger. 

20 MR. TOMAC: I was a little bit surprised, 

21 because the lady at the front desk –- I was 

22 originally scheduled at 3:45; and she said, 
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1 “Would you like to go earlier?” 

2 MS. NOONAN: And you did. That’s 

3 fantastic. 

4 MR. TOMAC: It is. So thank you for the 

5 explanation this morning. Thank you for the 

6 opportunity to provide comment on the proposed 

7 federal plan and model rule. My name is Steve 

8 Tomac, and I am providing comment today on behalf 

9 of Basin Electric Power Cooperative. 

10 Basin Electric is a generation and 

11 transmission cooperative based in Bismarck, North 

12 Dakota. We serve more than 2.9 million consumers 

13 through the 138 rural electric co-ops across the 

14 United States. By the end of this year, Basin 

15 Electric will have approximately 5,700 megawatts 

16 of generation capacity, of which approximately 55 

17 percent is coal, 18 percent is natural gas, and 

18 17 percent is wind. 77 percent of the net 

19 generation, as opposed to capacity, continues to 

20 come from our baseload of coal resources because 

21 they are the lowest cost and most reliable. 

22 Basin Electric currently projects approximately 
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1 2,800 megawatts of load growth in its service 

2 territory, 2,800 megawatts of growth in its 

3 service territory over the next 20 years. Much 

4 of this projected growth comes from the 

5 development of domestic oil and natural gas, and 

6 from a growing agricultural production industry. 

7 Basin Electric has recently filed a 

8 petition for review with the DC Circuit Court of 

9 Appeals challenging the legality of the final 

10 Clean Power Plan because we believe that EPA 

11 exceeded its authority in issuing the Clean Power 

12 Plan. We, by extension, believe that any federal 

13 implementation plan or model rule that implements 

14 the Clean Power Plan is also beyond EPA’s 

15 authority. This, however, is for the courts to 

16 decide. 

17 In the meantime, Basin Electric would 

18 like to continue its longstanding engagement with 

19 the EPA regarding the best ways to reduce CO2. 

20 Our comments today ask EPA to make three major 

21 changes in the final federal plan and model rule. 

22 First, EPA should change the final plan 
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1 to provide additional flexibility to fully 

2 consider the factors that Section 111 requires 

3 when setting performance standards for existing 

4 sources. These include considering a source’s 

5 remaining useful life; two, the cost of achieving 

6 such reduction; and, three, energy requirements. 

7 Consideration of remaining useful life is 

8 especially important to Basin Electric. Basin 

9 Electric has recently spent hundreds of millions 

10 of dollars for pollution controls for compliance 

11 with regional haze and other emission control 

12 requirements. We did this because EPA and the 

13 states determined that those controls were cost14 effective based upon consideration of their 

15 remaining useful lives, among other factors. Now 

16 EPA is curtailing those useful lives even before 

17 the investments of those emission controls have 

18 been fully implemented. This is bad policy, bad 

19 precedent, and contrary to the plain language of 

20 Section 111. 

21 Further, Section 111 allows states, and 

22 in the case of a federal plan requires EPA to 
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1 consider energy requirements in setting source2 specific standards. But nothing in the proposed 

3 model rule will allow North Dakota, for example, 

4 to consider the unprecedented load growth in 

5 setting source-specific performance standards for 

6 existing generation; and nothing in the federal 

7 plan addresses such load growth. Again, this is 

8 inconsistent with the plain language of Section 

9 111. 

10 Second, EPA has created an impossible 

11 dilemma for energy and electricity exporting 

12 states such as North Dakota and Wyoming by not 

13 creating a single standard under which rate and 

14 mass are interchangeable. The rule is unworkable 

15 because, without a common currency where 

16 allowances and emission reduction credits can be 

17 traded on a common basis, EPA’s dual standard is 

18 arbitrary and capricious. And there is nothing 

19 in Section 111 that allows EPA to set a dual 

20 standard. 

21 EPA can go a long way towards correcting 

22 this false dilemma either by creating a formula 
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1 or algorithm where rate or mass can be traded 

2 interchangeably, or by allowing states the 

3 discretion and authority to create an equivalent 

4 formula. Further, EPA should allow a rate-based 

5 backstop to state measure’s approach for our 

6 load-growth such as North Dakota to consider. 

7 Finally, neither the model rule nor a 

8 federal plan should be limited to a single 

9 compliance mechanism, either mass or rate. Basin 

10 Electric is a multistate utility with generation 

11 resources in four states. We are already 

12 anticipating having to deal with multiple 

13 compliance regimes under the Clean Power Plan. 

14 If a federal plan were imposed in just one of our 

15 states, it could dramatically alter how we serve 

16 electricity to our in-use consumers in other 

17 states, and result in unequal treatment and 

18 higher electricity bills. This creates a false 

19 dilemma that rewards states that import the bulk 

20 of their electricity at the expense of consumers 

21 in states that are not electricity exporters. 

22 MS. NOONAN: Mr. Tomac, thank you. 
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1 MR. TOMAC: Thank you again. 

2 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. I actually have 

3 a question for you. If you have any more 

4 thoughts about the formula that you were talking 

5 about, the rates and mass are interchangeable, 

6 any thoughts that Basin Electric might have about 

7 what that formula would look like, we would 

8 appreciate comments about that. 

9 MR. TOMAC: You know, we will be 

10 submitting a longer version of this in a final 

11 written comments. Will that be sufficient? 

12 MS. NOONAN: That looks great. Thank 

13 you. 

14 MR. TOMAC: Thank you. 

15 MR. ELLENBERGER: Thank you for the 

16 opportunity to submit formal testimony regarding 

17 the EPA’s proposed Clean Power Plan. I commend 

18 Administrator McCarthy and the EPA for conducting 

19 these public hearings today. 

20 MS. NOONAN: Can you spell your last 

21 name? 

22 MR. ELLENBERGER: Yes. I am David 
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1 Ellenberger, E-L-L-E-N-B-E-R-G-E-R. I’m a 

2 Regional Outreach Campaigns Manager, Regional 

3 Representative for the Colorado and Nebraska 

4 affiliates of the National Wildlife Federation 

5 here in Denver. 

6 We are a national organization with more 

7 than six million members and supporters, many of 

8 which are wildlife enthusiasts, wildlife 

9 watchers, hunters, anglers, hikers, gardeners, 

10 teachers, and general nature enthusiasts. We’re 

11 also a Federation family of 49 independent state 

12 affiliate organizations. And for nearly 80 years 

13 National Wildlife Federation has been a strong 

14 voice for wildlife conservation in the United 

15 States. 

16 Today I’d like to express my strong 

17 support for EPA’s historic action to combat 

18 climate change by setting limits on carbon 

19 pollution from existing power plants. I believe 

20 we have an obligation to protect our children and 

21 future generations from the impacts of climate 

22 change. We also have an obligation to protect 
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1 wildlife and our natural resources, upon which we 

2 all depend, that are on the front lines of our 

3 changing climate. 

4 Our warming climate is posing one of the 

5 greatest threats to wildlife today. And as a 

6 wildlife enthusiast and advocate, I’d like to 

7 thank the EPA for taking decisive action to 

8 combat the root of the problem, which is carbon 

9 pollution. 

10 Colorado’s average annual temperatures 

11 have increased two degrees Fahrenheit over the 

12 last 30 years, and two and a half degrees 

13 Fahrenheit over the past 50 years. These 

14 climatic changes have already begun to have 

15 devastating impacts on our state in the form of 

16 drought, forest fires, flooding, extreme weather 

17 impacts. 

18 Nationally, coal-fired power plants 

19 account for about a third of the carbon pollution 

20 that’s contributing to climate change. I have 

21 personally witnessed the damage of extreme 

22 weather fueled by climate change here in Colorado 
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1 from our beetle-ravaged forest lands to the 

2 destructive and more frequent intense wildfires 

3 that have swept across our state in recent years. 

4 I commend and strongly support this 

5 administration’s bold climate initiative aiming 

6 to aggressively begin reducing greenhouse gas 

7 reductions to levels scientists tell us we must. 

8 Thanks to our past history of working together to 

9 tackle air quality issues, Colorado is well10 positioned to meet our 38 percent carbon 

11 reduction goals, and can move quickly on this. 

12 The US EPA’s Clean Power Plan is a major 

13 step in the right direction and provides both 

14 clear standards of performance for limiting 

15 carbon pollution, and provides states with 

16 tremendous flexibility to achieve those 

17 standards. This plan will help speed the way 

18 towards a future in which we invest in more 

19 wildlife-friendly sources of clean energy, and 

20 less in fuels that pollute our air and water and 

21 will harm our global climate. 

22 By reducing the reliance on coal burning 
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1 for power generation in the US, the Clean Power 

2 Plan will protect wildlife, not only by reducing 

3 carbon pollution, but also other harmful 

4 pollutants like mercury that poison fish and 

5 threaten all those who eat them. 

6 The Clean Power Plan will reduce the need 

7 for more coal mining that’s destroying a lot of 

8 our precious wildlife habitat; and it will reduce 

9 the number of leaking toxic coal waste ponds that 

10 put our lakes and rivers in harm’s way. 

11 For states that do not create their own 

12 plans to cut carbon pollution from power plants, 

13 we commend the EPA for creating this backstop 

14 federal guarantee for reducing carbon pollution 

15 and protecting wildlife. The federal plan should 

16 be strong and aimed at protecting people and 

17 wildlife from power plant carbon pollution in 

18 order to ensure proper pollution reductions and 

19 to encourage wildlife-friendly renewable energy 

20 solutions. 

21 The proposed plan should be finalized in 

22 a timely manner so that states have the time to 
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1 use it to guide the formulation of their own 

2 plans. 

3 Thank you for the opportunity to comment 

4 today. We look forward to working with you to 

5 finalize and implement the Clean Power Plan. We 

6 hope you will do everything you can to ensure it 

7 stays strong through this process. Wildlife and 

8 future generations are counting on your 

9 leadership. 

10 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

11 Up next, Laura Comer and James Luidl. 

12 And just on deck, the next two speakers 

13 will be Jeff Cappella and John Morris. 

14 Is Ms. Comer in the room? Laura Comer? 

15 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She is probably 

16 outside at the table. 

17 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Is Mr. Cappella here? 

18 She’s coming. Okay. 

19 You can go. 

20 MR. LUIDL: Good day, and welcome back. 

21 My name is James Luidl. The last name is 

22 spelled L-U-I-D-L. I live in the City of Castle 
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1 Rock here in Colorado. I’m also a member of the 

2 Rocky Mountain Chapter of the Sierra Club here in 

3 Colorado, as well as a five-year member of the 

4 Colorado Trail Foundation that maintains the 

5 Colorado Trail from Denver to Durango. 

6 I’d like to thank the EPA for this 

7 opportunity to speak on behalf of the Clean Power 

8 Plan, the recently proposed federal 

9 implementation plan. It’s with great pride that 

10 I witnessed last year the Obama Administration 

11 and EPA approve the Clean Power Plan. The 

12 national standards set by the CPP are an 

13 important step in the right direction in order to 

14 protect our air, water, climate, and health of 

15 our communities. 

16 Many concerned citizens stood up last 

17 year at the first four hearings and made their 

18 preference known loud and clear that controlling 

19 the amount of carbon and other pollutants coming 

20 from fossil fuel power plants is a high priority. 

21 This next step is just as important. 

22 Every step has their own unique set of 
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1 circumstances as they work to develop the plan to 

2 meet the standards of the Clean Power Plan. 

3 Accepting that, it is important that the 

4 administration and EPA take a strong stand to 

5 ensure states are not allowed to continually 

6 delay or diminish the standards of the plan. 

7 The energy industry has for over a 

8 century been able to make their profits without 

9 concerning themselves with the consequences of 

10 their activity, dumping unlimited amounts of 

11 carbon into the air that are linked to life12 threatening illnesses, asthma, mercury poisoning 

13 of the water and the fish and marine life we eat. 

14 Here in Colorado I have watched the creep 

15 of pollution slowly innovate my community. Five 

16 years ago Castle Rock, which lies 30 miles south 

17 of Denver, did not have smog pollution. I cannot 

18 say that today. As an avid backpacker and a 

19 member of the Colorado Trail Foundation, I have 

20 seen the effects climate change has on our 

21 forests with millions of trails killed by drought 

22 and insects. 
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1 The EPA must remain vigilant in its duty 

2 to ensure the law is implemented to the letter, 

3 and, in spirit, to ensure the carbon pollution 

4 standards are met in a timely fashion, to ensure 

5 that states are meeting those standards as new 

6 power sources are brought on line, to make sure 

7 that those people who are economically 

8 disadvantaged have affordable access to clean, 

9 efficient energy, and to make sure that states 

10 are not allowed to trade away their 

11 responsibility to adhere to the rules of the 

12 Clean Power Plan. 

13 It is critical that the EPA issue a 

14 federal implementation plan to states who refuse 

15 to comply with the Clean Power Plan. CPP’s goals 

16 are to stabilize and protect the planet from the 

17 effects of climate change. What could be more 

18 important than that? 

19 Thank you. 

20 MS. COMER: Hi. My name is Laura Comer, 

21 L-A-U-R-A, Comer, C-O-M-E-R. I’m with the Sierra 

22 Club. So I currently live in Alaska, where I 
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1 work really closely with indigenous communities 

2 in coastal villages where we are seeing firsthand 

3 the impact of carbon pollution as our permafrost 

4 melts and communities are going into the sea. 

5 We would like to see the federal 

6 implementation plan strengthened. For this draft 

7 model plan to be strong and just, it needs to 

8 ensure that carbon pollution standards in that 

9 model plan, which would be what communities like 

10 Alaska, being without the rules currently – we 

11 don’t have numbers yet. We’re really looking to 

12 the federal plan to kind of decide where, as a 

13 state, we move forward; and that carbon pollution 

14 standard in that plan needs to achieve the 

15 reductions promised in the final Clean Power 

16 Plan, or even better. This model plan is going 

17 to be asked as the example that states like mine 

18 look to when creating our plans. 

19 The second thing we need to see is that 

20 we need to ensure that states address potential 

21 carbon pollution from new power plants to achieve 

22 overall electric section reductions in carbon 
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1 pollution. 

2 I live in a state where they’re looking 

3 to build new coal-fired power plants on or near 

4 communities of color, low-income communities, and 

5 rural communities. For our safety, it would be 

6 out of place for that to be considered. It makes 

7 me really nervous. 

8 Third, protect low-income consumers by 

9 maximizing utilities’ incentives to invest in 

10 electric efficiency and energy efficiency, which 

11 lowers our energy bills. That’s most critical to 

12 states like mine where the cost of rising fossil 

13 fuels falls 100 percent really on rural 

14 communities that are off of the road system. We 

15 need to make sure that the clean energy 

16 implementation programs are there to support 

17 rural communities where I live. 

18 And finally, please resist giveaways of 

19 allowances to the most-polluting sources. This 

20 model plan needs to protect and benefit minority, 

21 low-income, and indigenous communities that have 

22 long borne the brunt of fossil fuel pollution and 
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1 would be the most likely to experience impacts of 

2 climate change. 

3 I moved to Alaska from New Mexico where I 

4 was a teacher in the Four Corners. We could 

5 see -- you know, there’s four coal-powered power 

6 plants that I could see from my classroom. I 

7 couldn’t do my job as an educator when my kids 

8 couldn’t come to school because of asthma, when 

9 my kids couldn’t come to school because a parent 

10 was ill and someone had to stay at home to watch 

11 the kids. 

12 This power plan is exactly what we need, 

13 and it’s coming far too late. So do not hesitate 

14 to make this as strong as the communities need it 

15 to be to protect vulnerable lives. 

16 Thank you. 

17 MS. NOONAN: Mr. Jeff Cappella and 

18 Mr. John Morris. 

19 And on deck we’ll have Jake Black and Tom 

20 Plant. 

21 MR. CAPPELLA: Good morning. My name is 

22 Jeff Cappella; first name Jeff, J-E-F-F. Last 
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1 name C-A-P-P-E-L-L-A. 

2 I am here today representing the Western 

3 Clean Energy Campaign. This is a campaign that 

4 is a nonprofit, nonpartisan network of 

5 organizations and individuals in the Western US 

6 that are working to advance clean energy 

7 generation for the electric system. I live in 

8 Denver, and I’m a parent of two high-schoolers. 

9 My daughter asked me once if the world will be a 

10 good place to live in when she’s my age, and I 

11 told her that we need to make sure it is. 

12 So first a thank you to the Environmental 

13 Protection Agency for finalizing the Clean Power 

14 Plan that provides clear standards for limiting 

15 carbon pollution from power plants. And thank 

16 you too for the tremendous flexibility for states 

17 on how to go about achieving these standards. 

18 As you are likely aware, in Colorado 

19 Governor Hickenlooper and the Colorado Department 

20 of Public Health and Environment have 

21 demonstrated their commitment to a public and 

22 transparent process to develop a state plan to 
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1 cut carbon pollution; and elected officials from 

2 both sides of the aisle and across Colorado have 

3 said that Colorado will submit a state plan. The 

4 Western Clean Energy Campaign will be working 

5 closely with the state and other stakeholders and 

6 communities to make a plan that works for 

7 Coloradans that works for our economy. 

8 What’s particularly important now is that 

9 we are able to move forward without delay. So we 

10 ask EPA to please continue with the extensive 

11 support it has provided states, and finalize the 

12 model framework quickly. We feel that it will be 

13 an important tool to have states develop plans 

14 thoughtfully, and also efficiently, and ensuring 

15 environmental integrity. 

16 With the nuts and bolts provided in these 

17 models from EPA, states will be able to focus on 

18 the unique components of their state 

19 implementation efforts that are most important to 

20 their stakeholders. Simply put, it will expedite 

21 the process. 

22 We also want to commend EPA’s inclusion 
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1 of the proposed Clean Energy Incentive Program. 

2 The Western Clean Energy Campaign believes it is 

3 essential that incentives for early action to 

4 reduce carbon pollution before 2022 are finalized 

5 quickly so that states and project developers can 

6 begin planning to take advantage of this 

7 opportunity. 

8 We want to encourage EPA to do three 

9 things with regard to the Clean Energy Incentive 

10 Program: One, be specific when it lays out the 

11 definition of low-income energy efficiency in 

12 order to ensure that low-income communities will 

13 truly benefit; two, support authentic community 

14 engagement in the CEIT design process at both the 

15 federal and state level; and, three, provide the 

16 technical guidance that will be needed in order 

17 to ensure that the Clean Energy Incentive Program 

18 is properly targeted and fully capitalized on to 

19 benefit low-income communities. 

20 We support EPA’s commitment to design the 

21 Clean Energy Incentive Program to encourage 

22 additional carbon pollution reductions and not in 
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1 a way that would end up reducing the overall 

2 program’s stringency. 

3 In summary, states like Colorado, and 

4 others as well, are ready to make plans and will 

5 be well-served by both the Clean Energy Incentive 

6 Program and EPA’s model frameworks. We encourage 

7 EPA to act swiftly to finalize this guidance to 

8 ensure that real and tangible carbon reductions 

9 are realized, and to support clean energy and 

10 energy efficiency benefits for low-income 

11 communities. 

12 Thank you. 

13 MS. NOONAN: If I could just ask one 

14 question, if there things that you could add to 

15 the record about your group’s thoughts about 

16 transparency and definitions of low income, that 

17 would be tremendously helpful. 

18 MR. CAPPELLA: Thank you. Yeah. We’ll 

19 be submitting some comment in writing to address 

20 that. 

21 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

22 MR. CAPPELLA: Thanks. 
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1 MR. MORRIS: Thank you EPA for finalizing 

2 carbon pollution limits and promoting clear 

3 standards of performance for limiting carbon. 

4 MS. NOONAN: Mr. Morris, could you hold 

5 it a little closer and – 

6 MR. MORRIS: My name is John Morris, 

7 J-O-H-N M-O-R-R-I-S. I am a retired economics 

8 professor, a member of the Sierra Club, and a 

9 grandparent. 

10 I’m really glad to see we’re finally 

11 getting rules that will eventually clean the air 

12 and limit utility contributions to climate 

13 change. I appreciate the flexibility that’s 

14 built into the plan, the Clean Power Plan. I 

15 realize some would like even more flexibility. 

16 Some will always like even more flexibility, 

17 regardless of the plan. 

18 It seems to me that the main objections 

19 to the Clean Power Plan really relate to 

20 protecting the dying coal industry. They lost 

21 the railroad market a lifetime ago to 

22 technological change. Now they’re losing the 
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1 electrical market to technological change as 

2 renewable sources of power become ever cheaper. 

3 By 2030 coal will be totally obsolete in power 

4 production. The Clean Power Plan only 

5 accelerates the change. 

6 There will be losers, of course, even 

7 before the obvious gains from climate change or 

8 health. The states like Kansas, South Dakota, 

9 Colorado, even North Dakota, should see gains 

10 from the change as they move into production of 

11 renewable power. Everything I have read suggests 

12 that renewable power takes more jobs per megawatt 

13 of electricity than coal does; and I would hope 

14 that people would embrace the future, rather than 

15 fearing it. 

16 Thank you. 

17 MS. NOONAN: up next we have Mr. Jake 

18 Black and Mr. Tom Plant, please. 

19 MR. BLACK: I guess I’m up first. 

20 Thank you guys for taking action to cut 

21 carbon pollution from power plants. The Clean 

22 Power Plan is -– 
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1 MS. NOONAN: I’m sorry. Can you spell 

2 your name? 

3 MR. BLACK: Oh, yeah. I’m sorry. It’s 

4 Jake Black, J-A-K-E B-L-A-C-K, just like the 

5 color. 

6 Okay. Thank you guys for taking time. 

7 You know, it’s a truly historic step forward, 

8 since power plants are already the largest source 

9 of carbon pollution. 

10 My name’s Jake Black, and I’m a 

11 professional snowboarder from Breckinridge, 

12 Colorado, which is just over the hillside here. 

13 I have also recently completed my degree in 

14 sustainable studies at Colorado Mountain College, 

15 and I work with an organization to protect our 

16 winters to create a unified voice for the ski 

17 industry towards climate change to protect it. 

18 So the reason I’m here today, like many 

19 others, is to show my support for the Clean Power 

20 Plan, and to urge state-based implementation. As 

21 an athlete that spends much of my time in the 

22 mountains, I’ve seen how climate change has 
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1 already impacted the places where I live and 

2 work. Shorter, more inconsistent winters, severe 

3 droughts, larger temperature swings, less spring 

4 runoff, and wildfires are just a few of the 

5 examples we’ve already seen right here; and the 

6 future predictions are far worse. Being born and 

7 raised in Summit County, over my lifetime I’ve 

8 not only seen winter change, but every season. 

9 We are all concerned about what our tourist10 dependent mountain communities will look like in 

11 my children’s lifetime. It is our responsibility 

12 to do whatever we can to prevent the worst 

13 effects of climate change for the next generation 

14 to live as well, if not better, than we do now. 

15 Winter tourism in Colorado drives $2.2 

16 billion in revenue, and supports 38,000 jobs. To 

17 all of us Coloradans, especially those in our 

18 mountain communities, the loss of winter is a 

19 very serious business. In 2013, 39 million 

20 metric tons of carbon pollution were emitted from 

21 power plants in Colorado, equal to the yearly 

22 pollution from over eight million cars. Air 
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1 pollution from Colorado coal-fired power plants 

2 already contributed to 53 deaths, 81 heart 

3 attacks, more than a thousand asthma attacks, and 

4 over $400 million in health costs every year. 

5 However, there is good news. We know 

6 what the problem is, and we already have a real 

7 feasible solution. The big part of that solution 

8 is the Clean Power Plan. I urge the EPA to build 

9 a strong framework for a pollution-reduction 

10 program that boasts development of clean, 

11 renewable energy, energy efficiency, and that 

12 minimizes the need for new power plants fueled by 

13 natural gas in every state. 

14 Letting states develop their own carbon 

15 reduction methods or partnering with neighboring 

16 states to develop plans will create thousands of 

17 good, clean, long-term jobs for American people; 

18 and these people will make our electricity system 

19 cleaner, in turn, making our homes and businesses 

20 more energy efficient, thus perpetuating a 

21 virtuous cycle towards a brighter future for 

22 generations to come. 
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1 The EPA’s guidelines will create the 

2 right foundation to also cut other forms of air 

3 pollution, which will provide significant health 

4 benefits for people across the country. 

5 Colorado’s already a leader in clean 

6 energy innovation, and an example for other 

7 states looking to build on its success. The 

8 Clean Power Plan will help speed up that 

9 necessary trend. In this state there are more 

10 than 300 solar companies, and 11,200 people 

11 employed in the wind and solar industries. Every 

12 year these jobs grow. Colorado is already well13 positioned to comply with the Clean Power Plan. 

14 An overwhelming majority of governors, 

15 including our own Governor Hickenlooper, have 

16 already recognized how the Clean Power Plan can 

17 improve their economies and help clean up their 

18 environment. Many governors are already 

19 preparing plans to meet the target reductions. 

20 For example, our state already has a goal 

21 to generate 30 percent of our electricity from 

22 renewable energy resources by 2020, and an 
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1 additional goal of 10 to 20 percent renewables 

2 for municipal utilities and electricity 

3 cooperatives. Colorado also plans to cut 

4 electricity consumption five percent below 2006 

5 sales by 2018. This is the future my generation 

6 and I want to see. I’m proud that Colorado has 

7 taken such a leadership role. We need a strong 

8 Clean Power Plan to help push every state to do 

9 the same, if not better. 

10 The Clean Power Plan presents states with 

11 a tremendous opportunity to lead in clean energy 

12 development while cutting electricity bills, 

13 protecting public health, and saving lives by 

14 reducing carbon pollution. States should seize 

15 the opportunity to reduce the dangerous carbon 

16 pollution now, for now is the time to drive the 

17 transition to a clean energy future that creates 

18 jobs, improves our health, and safeguards our 

19 future. The most effective way to do that is to 

20 let the states create their own plan, and to 

21 reduce carbon pollution in the most cost22 effective way, not ignoring the law and leaving 
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1 it to you guys at the EPA. 

2 While some in Congress have urged states 

3 to defy the law, this will only serve to 

4 dismantle lifesaving environmental protections 

5 while placing the health and economic well-being 

6 of all Coloradans at risk. Carbon pollution 

7 knows no borders, and it is critical that these 

8 rules are as strong as possible for every state 

9 to comply with. 

10 I come here as a representative of 

11 Colorado and its snow sports community, for our 

12 way of life as we know it is highly dependent on 

13 these rules. I urge you to make them as strong 

14 as possible so that our future is more prosperous 

15 than ever. We can’t put the livelihoods of 

16 38,000 plus Coloradans and the economic future of 

17 our state at risk. Too many small businesses and 

18 careers depend on the winter season and the magic 

19 it brings to our communities, for these are not 

20 just people. They are my friends and family who 

21 are here trying to create better, more fulfilling 

22 lives for themselves, not struggle to make ends 
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1 meet. 

2 Letting our own state lay out a sensible 

3 and aggressive strategy to address carbon action 

4 is the most logical plan to successful 

5 implementation in the future. As the EPA 

6 finalizes the last steps of the Clean Power Plan, 

7 it is important for it to maintain the strongest 

8 approach possible to ensure every state achieves 

9 the necessary reductions in carbon pollution. 

10 Thanks for your time. 

11 MR. PLANT: Thanks. My name is Tom 

12 Plant, P-L-A-N-T, and I’m here representing 

13 Advanced Energy Economy. 

14 As a business association representing 

15 technologies and services that make the energy we 

16 use more secure, clean, and affordable, AEE 

17 encompasses a wide array of businesses providing 

18 products and services that enable low-cost, 

19 reliable compliance under the Clean Power Plan. 

20 These measures include wind, solar, hydropower, 

21 geothermal, nuclear, combined heat and power 

22 transmission, and distribution efficiency, and 
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1 end-use energy efficiency. Using Advanced 

2 Energy’s technologies and services for compliance 

3 will improve reliability, reduce cost, and give 

4 customers more energy choices. These investments 

5 in a higher-performing electricity system will 

6 also grow business, create jobs, and drive 

7 economic growth. 

8 AEE and its member companies see the 

9 Clean Power Plan as an opportunity to modernize 

10 the electric power system for the 21st Century; 

11 and the EPA’s federal plan will ensure that this 

12 opportunity is realized in every state across the 

13 country. We’re very supportive of the flexible 

14 approach taken by the EPA under both the rate15 based and the mass-based federal plan proposals 

16 and model trading rules. We view trading as the 

17 best way to achieve EPA’s targets. However, 

18 there are several areas in which these proposals 

19 can by improved to allow effective units to take 

20 full advantage of the benefits of advanced 

21 energy. 

22 EPA should finalize -– first of all, EPA 
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1 should finalize only one plan type, mass or rate, 

2 in every state in which it implements a federal 

3 plan. With certain key changes, AEE believes 

4 that either plan type could facilitate the use of 

5 advanced energy for flexible and cost-effective 

6 compliance. However, in order to maximize the 

7 benefits of interstate trading, EPA should ensure 

8 that all federal plan states are under a single 

9 plan type. 

10 Secondly, EPA should ensure that all 

11 advanced energy measures included in the final 

12 rule are available to states under a federal 

13 plan. This will keep compliance costs down, put 

14 all states on an even playing field, and create a 

15 consistent market for eligible compliance 

16 measures. 

17 As proposed, the rate-based federal plan 

18 restricts emissions rate credits, ERCs, 

19 eligibility to on-shore utility-scale wind, 

20 utility-scale solar, photovoltaics, concentrated 

21 solar power, geothermal power, utility-scale 

22 hydropower, and new nuclear units, and capacity 
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1 upgrades. The full suite of eligible measures 

2 allowed in state plans should be available under 

3 the federal plan including energy efficiency, 

4 combined heat and power, transmission and 

5 distribution efficiency, and distributed 

6 generation. Including these measures in the 

7 federal plan will keep costs down and ensure an 

8 equitable and optimum outcome. This will allow 

9 effective units to make use of the most cost10 effective resources, which are no-regrets 

11 choices, even without the CPP. 

12 Under a mass-based federal plan, as 

13 proposed, the allocation of allowances will limit 

14 opportunities for Advanced Energy to compete in 

15 the marketplace by providing windfall profits for 

16 existing units, but no meaningful incentives for 

17 Advanced Energy. 

18 The renewable energy set-aside gives a 

19 very small portion of the total allowance of pie 

20 to a fast-growing resource. As renewable 

21 capacity continues to ramp up, the market 

22 incentive from this set-aside will be further 
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1 diluted. The set-asides ignore entire categories 

2 of emission reduction measures, including some of 

3 the most cost-effective options such as energy 

4 efficiency, transmission and distribution 

5 efficiencies, and combined heat and power. EPA 

6 should include provisions for these measures to 

7 earn allowances under the federal plan to ensure 

8 that these measures will contribute meaningfully 

9 to compliance. 

10 More generally, the proposed allocation 

11 scheme is flawed in that it disincentivezes 

12 Advanced Energy and could lead to windfall 

13 profits for some existing resources. 

14 Third, energy efficiency and other 

15 behind-the-meter sources provide verifiable 

16 emission reductions that can be efficiently 

17 tracked and traded. One of the major challenges 

18 raised by EPA is administering a program with 

19 these resources; but there are efforts underway 

20 that will address that challenge. 

21 AEE is supportive of the development of 

22 the National Energy Efficiency Registry, a 
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1 streamlined tool to track energy efficiency 

2 savings for CPP compliance. This effort is being 

3 led by officials in Tennessee, in conjunction 

4 with officials in Georgia, Michigan, Minnesota, 

5 Oregon, and Pennsylvania, along with the National 

6 Association of State Energy Officials, NASEO, the 

7 Department of Energy, and the Climate Registry, E 

8 for the Future, and APX. 

9 Finally, the Clean Energy Incentive 

10 Program, CEIP, is intended to incent by early 

11 action, but, as proposed, could actually suppress 

12 demand for emission-reducing investments between 

13 now and 2020. Key changes that we believe are 

14 needed to ensure that the program fulfills its 

15 goals are the dates should be moved forward both 

16 for project eligibility and for the start of 

17 credit generation. The current dates push 

18 project eligibility back as far as 2018, and 

19 don’t allow project to start generating credits 

20 until 2020. These dates may leave utilities and 

21 project developers to delay projects that would 

22 otherwise happen between now and 2020. In 
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1 addition, the CEIP should be expanded beyond 

2 energy efficiency and low-energy communities, and 

3 wind and solar. By excluding other advanced 

4 energy technologies and by restricting energy 

5 efficiency to low-income communities, the CEIP, 

6 as proposed, misses an opportunity to make early 

7 progress in these sectors. 

8 Finally, I would suggest that, as the EPA 

9 is looking at the definition of energy efficiency 

10 as a demand-side resource, they really look at 

11 the full suite of demand-side resources, 

12 including those that would increase the 

13 intelligence of demand-side systems to make them 

14 more efficient. Demand-side generation, as well 

15 as –- here in Colorado we have community solar 

16 gardens, and shared solar is expanding across the 

17 country. That can increase the efficiency of the 

18 distribution side of the system, and that should 

19 be included as a demand-side resource as well. 

20 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

21 MR. PLANT: Thank you. 

22 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 
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1 I think you had a couple of things we 

2 want -- 

3 MS. HIGHT: Sure. 

4 Hi. I’m Cate Hight. I just wanted to 

5 point out to everyone that on the Clean Energy 

6 Incentive Program we have a number of stakeholder 

7 calls scheduled to get feedback from the public 

8 on the design of that program. The next one will 

9 be scheduled for November 23 in the evening, and 

10 we have another November 30, and also December 1. 

11 So check out our Clean Power Plan website for 

12 more details on the call-in information on that. 

13 MR. PLANT: Thank you. 

14 MS. NOONAN: Mr. Black, we would like 

15 your thoughts on that as well, especially for how 

16 that plan could help communities that are 

17 dependent on winter tourism. If there are 

18 special things that we should be considering in 

19 the CEIP, we would like your thoughts about that. 

20 MR. BLACK: Yeah. We’ll write something 

21 up. 

22 MS. NOONAN: Great. Thank you both. 
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1 Up next we have Lauren Poole and Meg 

2 Morris. 

3 And then on deck Tyler Svitak and Curt 

4 Huber. 

5 MS. POOLE: That’s Lauren –- do I speak 

6 first? 

7 MS. NOONAN: Go right ahead, and you can 

8 just spell your –- 

9 MS. POOLE: Can you hear me okay? 

10 MS. NOONAN: Yes. You’re great. Thank 

11 you. 

12 MS. POOLE: So I’m Lauren Poole. I’m the 

13 Executive Director of the Energy Efficiency 

14 Business Coalition. We’re the central trade 

15 organization for the energy efficiency industry 

16 in Colorado. We have over 100 member companies 

17 that represent a billion dollars in revenue 

18 already for the state. Our members include 

19 manufacturers, distributers, energy auditors, 

20 home performance contractors, and commercial 

21 energy service providers. We already work with 

22 utilities like Excel Energy and municipalities on 
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1 developing their energy-efficiency programs and 

2 policies. Because of this, a lot of utilities 

3 right now are already on track to meet over 85 

4 percent of their emissions reductions with their 

5 current demand-site management plans. 

6 Despite these successes, significant 

7 opportunities still exist in both the public and 

8 the private sector for reducing energy 

9 consumption and carbon emissions through 

10 upgrading commercial buildings, hospitals, data 

11 centers, warehouses, and homes with more 

12 efficient insulation, windows. New window 

13 coverings are on the market, high-efficiency 

14 heating and cooling systems that are just now 

15 starting to be tested by these utilities, and 

16 Wi-Fi technologies. There’s a lot of 

17 opportunities out there still in the energy18 efficiency realm. 

19 A lot of our members have systems in 

20 place right now to measure the energy performance 

21 of the demand-side management programs. They’re 

22 doing it right now, and they’re offering their 
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1 experience and expertise as a resource to the EPA 

2 and the State of Colorado as you develop your 

3 plan. So we do urge you to include energy4 efficiency programs and demand-side management, 

5 even extend and expand the existing demand-side 

6 management programs that are already out there, 

7 especially in the rural areas. And we can help 

8 with that. 

9 So I think the benefits to Colorado is 

10 you can save consumers millions of dollars; you 

11 can reduce pollution; reduce millions of metric 

12 tons of carbon emissions; and at the same time 

13 create jobs not only in urban areas, but in rural 

14 communities where there are a lot of homes out 

15 there and commercial buildings that can be 

16 upgraded. 

17 So thank you. 

18 MS. MORRIS: Hi. My name is Meg Morris, 

19 M-E-G M-O-R-R-I-S. I am with the National 

20 Wildlife Federation. 

21 Thank you for the opportunity to submit 

22 formal comments in support of the Clean Power 
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1 Plan. I have the privilege of working for the 

2 National Wildlife Federation, but today I speak 

3 to you as a citizen and as a mother. 

4 I grew up on a mountaintop. Instead of 

5 televisions, movie theaters, and amusement parks, 

6 the outdoors was the place where my youthful mind 

7 went to dream and grow. The value of 

8 experiencing nature was invaluable. I carry with 

9 me a deep love and debt to the natural world. I 

10 also carry core values in forming my life today, 

11 namely, a deep respect and appreciation for the 

12 environment, humility, and responsibility. My 

13 father always told me to make sure I leave a 

14 place better than I found it. From small to big 

15 life decisions I carry this with me, and I teach 

16 my children to do the same. We take everyday, 

17 small actions to minimize our impact on the 

18 Earth. We walk. We take public transportation. 

19 We recycle. We buy food and goods in the most 

20 responsible ways we can. That is our 

21 responsibility, to make sure we do everything we 

22 can to protect future generations from the 
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1 impacts of the lives we live today. 

2 I also hope my children learn that they 

3 live in a country where their government will 

4 also fulfill its responsibility, the 

5 responsibility to leave our country better than 

6 they found it before accepting the profound 

7 privilege to make decisions that will impact all 

8 of us today and into the future. I can make 

9 decisions for and with my children to fulfill 

10 this obligation. 

11 Without clear, bold, and large 

12 leadership, we cannot medicate the devastating 

13 impacts of climate change. This is your 

14 responsibility, and I believe the Clean Power 

15 Plan provides the path forward to begin to honor 

16 this responsibility. 

17 I have seen the impacts of climate change 

18 in Colorado, whether dealing with extreme weather 

19 events, drought, wildfires, or reading messages 

20 appearing on television screens and highway 

21 alerts warning that the air quality is so poor 

22 that my children ought not play outside. This is 
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1 how far we’ve come. My children live in a world 

2 where they can’t play outside, because there are 

3 days the air isn’t safe to breathe. Climate 

4 action is no longer an option. It’s an 

5 imperative. It’s our responsibility. It’s your 

6 responsibility is to stop talking and start 

7 doing. 

8 The federal plan should be strong, 

9 timely, and address the need to cut carbon 

10 pollution swiftly and meaningfully. I commend 

11 the EPA for efforts to reduce carbon emissions. 

12 And I ask that as planning for implementation of 

13 these plans move forward we maintain focus on 

14 what’s important, truly important, and that is, 

15 at the very least, that we say that days where 

16 our children aren’t safe to play and breathe the 

17 air outside is unacceptable. Please implement 

18 plans that reduce carbon emissions to the degree 

19 that we can say with confidence that days like 

20 these are a thing of the past. Leave this 

21 country better than you found it, a place where 

22 the outdoor world is preserved, the air is safe 
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1 to breathe, and the water is clean. My children, 

2 my family, and countless others across the 

3 country are counting on you. 

4 Thank you. 

5 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 

6 Okay. Up next, Tyler Svitak and Curt 

7 Huber. 

8 And on deck, Andy Wildenberg and Zabrina 

9 Arnovitz. 

10 Don’t forget to spell your names. 

11 MR. HUBER: Okay. I’m Curt Huber. Good 

12 morning. C-U-R-T H-U-B-E-R. I’m the Executive 

13 Director of the American Lung Association in 

14 Colorado. I’m here today to testify in support 

15 of the federal and model plans that will help 

16 drive the shift to clean energy sources, address 

17 climate change, and reduce as much pollution as 

18 possible to protect the most vulnerable 

19 populations from pollution’s consequences. 

20 The American Lung Association works very 

21 hard to improve lung health and prevent lung 

22 disease; and we know that climate change can 
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1 cause public health harm through degraded air 

2 quality, wildfires, drought, heat waves, and 

3 more. We also know that climate change worsens 

4 the burden of the 113,000 children and 300,000 

5 adults that have asthma in Colorado. 

6 We support the Clean Power Plan to reduce 

7 carbon and other air pollutants that cause asthma 

8 attacks, heart attacks, and premature death. We 

9 want to make sure that we achieve the EPA’s 

10 estimated health benefits of the Clean Power 

11 Plan, including preventing up to 3,600 premature 

12 deaths in 2030, preventing 90,000 asthma attacks, 

13 and avoiding 300,000 days missed from work and 

14 school each year. 

15 These health benefits will only come if 

16 states develop effective plans to meet the 

17 requirements set out by the EPA in the Clean 

18 Power Plan. In those states who refuse to 

19 comply, it is critical that the EPA have a way to 

20 ensure reduction at the federal level. 

21 We support the EPA’s effort to help the 

22 states develop and adopt effective plans to 
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1 reduce their carbon emissions. Having model 

2 plans to use will help the states focus their 

3 time and effort on choosing the steps that work 

4 best for them. 

5 The American Lung Association broadly 

6 supports the Clean Power Plan, but we also have 

7 some suggestions for improvement. The EPA needs 

8 to do more in the model rule and with the federal 

9 implementation plan to ensure that low-income 

10 communities don’t continue to bear an oversized 

11 burden of pollution under this plan. Low-income 

12 communities have suffered the consequences of 

13 pollution exposure from our nation’s coal-fired 

14 power plants for far too long. They have lived 

15 near these plants where they breathe the worst of 

16 the pollution, including toxic emissions like 

17 arsenic, lead, and carcinogens like Benzene for 

18 far too long. They are suffering more from 

19 changes that climate change brings since research 

20 documents that air pollution disproportionately 

21 affects poorer communities, in part, because they 

22 are more likely to have diseases like asthma that 
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1 increase the risk. 

2 EPA’s analysis, as well as an analysis by 

3 Harvard University, and others, showed the steps 

4 to reduce carbon emissions will also have co5 benefits that reduce other emissions from these 

6 plants like ozone precursors and Sulphur oxides. 

7 Cleaning these up is essential, but we 

8 remain concerned that some states will adopt a 

9 plan that does not recognize the continued 

10 disproportionate burden, and fails to reduce 

11 emissions from all sources. Each plan in each 

12 state should make sure that plants do not 

13 continue to disproportionately burden those who 

14 live near power plants. 

15 We support EPA’s commitment to the 

16 process – excuse me – commitment to ensure that 

17 reductions in carbon emissions are real, and not 

18 just apparent. We are glad that EPA recognized 

19 that some strategies for accomplishing the Clean 

20 Power Plan could simply move or switch the 

21 emission source to a different geography, or, 

22 worse, not actually reduce overall emissions. 
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1 This process called leakage, we 

2 appreciate that the EAP has proposed steps to 

3 reduce the chance for leakage. We support EPA 

4 providing the strongest possible tools for states 

5 to use in the model plan and in the FIP to 

6 prevent additional carbon emissions. 

7 Thank you. 

8 MR. SVITAK: Thank you. My name is Tyler 

9 Svitak, T-Y-L-E-R S-V-I-T-A-K. I am the Director 

10 of Air Quality of Transportation at the American 

11 Lung Association of Colorado. 

12 Of course I want to echo Curt’s comments, 

13 but I also want to talk on a few more specific 

14 points on the model rule and the federal 

15 implementation plan, the first of which is the 

16 Clean Energy Incentive Programs, the CEIP. We 

17 strongly support the CEIP as a promising method 

18 for encouraging adoption of clean power like 

19 solar and wind sooner rather than later. 

20 The EPA’s model plan offers states the 

21 offer to join the CEIP, but we would encourage 

22 EPA to make it a standard element in the final 
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1 model plan, rather than allowing it to be 

2 optional. We are pleased the EPA has the full 

3 CEIP in the federal implementation plan. 

4 However, in the model plan states can opt out of 

5 the broad CEIP opportunity for renewable energy 

6 and approved energy efficiency programs. We 

7 recommend that the EPA incorporate the CEIP 

8 elements fully in the model plan, rather than 

9 leaving it as an option for the states to decide 

10 later. 

11 We strongly support the CPP’s component 

12 that focusses on energy efficiency improvements 

13 in low-income communities. Many residents in 

14 low-income communities in our state could benefit 

15 from having repairs done to their homes that can 

16 cut their energy bills and make their homes 

17 warmer. 

18 We are pleased that in the CEIP the EPA 

19 wisely chose to incentivize early adoption of the 

20 cleanest alternative sources, wind and solar. 

21 Both are fully capable of adding great capacity 

22 to our energy supply, while not adding additional 
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1 pollution to the air that we breathe. However, 

2 other aspects of the plan would encourage states 

3 to use less clean energy sources. In the model 

4 rules for rate-based plans, EPA would allow 

5 states to take credit for using biomass and waste 

6 to energy as alternatives to coal and natural 

7 gas. We at the American Lung Association oppose 

8 burning biomass or waste to provide electricity, 

9 because of the emissions and harmful air 

10 pollutants that they produce, including 

11 particulate matter and possible air toxins from 

12 waste products. The Clean Power Plan should not 

13 encourage the transformation of our fuel for 

14 energy from burning one harmful source like coal 

15 to burning another harmful source like waste 

16 products. We are pleased that the federal 

17 implementation plan would not allow these fuel 

18 options, and encourage EPA to strengthen the 

19 model rule to eliminate them as well. 

20 Thank you. 

21 MS. NOONAN: One quick question. If you 

22 could, in your written comments, make sure that 
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1 you are specific in why you want to make the CEIP 

2 standard instead of optional, that would be very 

3 helpful to us. Thank you. 

4 Okay. Up next Andy Wildenberg and 

5 Zabrina Arnovitz. 

6 And on deck we have Colleen Cope and 

7 Janice Zinkl. 

8 MR. WILDENBERG: Hi. Good morning. I’m 

9 Andy Wildenberg, A-N-D-Y. 

10 MS. NOONAN: Mic. 

11 MR. WILDENBERG: Good morning. Andy 

12 Wildenberg, A-N-D-Y W-I-L-D-E-N-B-E-R-G. I’m 

13 from E3 Power. It’s a small energy audit company 

14 in Denver. We do home energy audits, some 

15 commercial buildings, and related energy modeling 

16 services. 

17 The CPP is good for Colorado. Energy 

18 efficiency, although not a building block under 

19 the plan, can be and should be an important 

20 component. More and more research has shown that 

21 EE is very important in the affordable housing 

22 sector. I applaud the EPA for giving bonus 
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1 credit to this sector. In fact, I just read 

2 something in some cities around the country that 

3 affordable housing residents spend up to 60 

4 percent of their available income on energy. 

5 That’s totally unacceptable. There’s not that 

6 much to begin with, and that 60 percent means a 

7 lot. We need to take that number down to almost 

8 zero. Several states are out there now, and 

9 their low-income housing tax credits, 

10 specifically Pennsylvania that gave bonus credits 

11 for a passive house; and we all know that passive 

12 is probably the most efficient KBTU per square 

13 foot, or lowest EUI in the industry today. So I 

14 applaud the EPA for giving the bonus credits. We 

15 need to move forward with additional bonus 

16 credits in the states for the low-income housing 

17 tax credit plan. 

18 The CPP will create jobs for the economy, 

19 jobs that do not necessarily need a college 

20 education, but they need real training, jobs that 

21 require real training in specifically the HVAC 

22 industry, and control equipment, and the 
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1 installation of the new modern equipment. I just 

2 attended a Manual J training in Indianapolis. 

3 One of the biggest problems they have now in the 

4 industry is there are not enough qualified 

5 applicants going in to do these renovations. And 

6 some people say that the generation that used to 

7 be the service people in HVAC are moving in on 

8 retirement. So there are going to be less of 

9 them. So we need to move forward into these type 

10 of jobs, insulators, HVAC people. They need 

11 technical training. They’re good middle-income 

12 jobs. That’s the jobs that the energy efficiency 

13 industry creates. 

14 Use the energy -– excuse me. Use the 

15 energy you need, not what you can. Use what you 

16 need, not what you can. Supporting EE is good 

17 for Colorado. 

18 Thank you. 

19 MS. ARNOVITZ: Hi. My name is Zabrina 

20 Arnovitz, Z-A-B-R-I-N-A A-R-N-O-V-I-T-Z. I work 

21 for an organization called Rights for All People, 

22 which does immigrants’ rights work, and it’s 
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1 merging with Colorado Progressive Coalition, 

2 which historically does social justice work. 

3 They brought me on to do the climate part, 

4 because we’ve realized within our organization 

5 that it is the low-income and the more diverse 

6 communities that are being more greatly affected 

7 by issues of carbon pollution. 

8 Somebody from NWF earlier spoke about how 

9 her children can’t go out and play. I was one of 

10 those children. I grew up right outside the City 

11 of Cleveland, Ohio; and there were days when I 

12 could not go out and play outside because the air 

13 quality was so bad. 

14 I want to say that I support a strong 

15 Clean Power Plan, but I do think that one part of 

16 the Power Plan that’s missing is fracking, which 

17 is a huge issue here in Colorado. And I’ve heard 

18 from different sources that the Clean Power Plan 

19 is being used to implement greater fracking 

20 within Colorado, which is a huge issue because 

21 they aren’t fracking in the nice, white 

22 communities. They’re fracking in poor or low-
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1 income communities that are highly diverse, and 

2 it’s a huge issue. And it is – so it’s not only 

3 a climate issue. It’s a human rights issue. 

4 It’s a social justice issue. 

5 Thank you. 

6 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 

7 Up next, Colleen Cope and Janice Zinkl. 

8 MS. COPE: Good morning. My name is 

9 Colleen Cope, C-O-L-L-E-E-N C-O-P-E, and I’m here 

10 today from Fort Collins, Colorado to express my 

11 strong support for EPA’s historic action to 

12 combat climate change by setting limits on carbon 

13 pollution from existing power plants. I’m a 

14 former geologist and high school Earth science 

15 teacher, and I spent seven years creating weather 

16 and climate videos and developing classroom 

17 curriculum for students on the subject of climate 

18 science. I am currently a climate reality leader 

19 and a climate change activist. 

20 I’m a native of Colorado, and I’ve shared 

21 with my students the changes that I’ve seen in my 

22 lifetime in our state, changes like growing up 
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1 ice skating on City Park Lake, geese that used to 

2 fly south for the winter, and funnel clouds and 

3 tornadoes that were a rare occurrence here. 

4 Most recently I’ve witnessed the damage 

5 of extreme weather with more destructive 

6 wildfires, and more intense floods, the ravages 

7 of the pine beetle that have killed many of our 

8 forests, and, as a skier and former ski 

9 instructor, now shorter ski seasons. 

10 I take very seriously my obligation to 

11 educate future generations and protect wildlife 

12 from the impacts of climate change. I will 

13 undoubtedly be part of this cause for the rest of 

14 my life. Our warming climate is posing one of 

15 the greatest threats to our civilization as we 

16 have come to know it and to our wildlife. And as 

17 a scientist and teacher, and, most importantly, a 

18 mother, I applaud the EPA for taking action to 

19 combat the root of the problem, which is carbon 

20 pollution. I can only hope that the State of 

21 Colorado follows your lead in stating concrete 

22 goals for their climate plan, and not just the 
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1 vague generalities that exist presently. 

2 So I commend you for creating the 

3 backstop that will force Colorado and other 

4 states to implement their goals and define how 

5 and when they will achieve them. 

6 Internationally, as we head towards the 

7 Paris climate negotiations, the US needs to lead 

8 and send a message that we know that climate 

9 change threatens the lives of billions of people 

10 and animals through drought, fertile land to grow 

11 crops, and international instability and 

12 migration. 

13 Thank you for the opportunity to comment 

14 today, and I commend you and President Obama on 

15 the rapid finalization and implementation of the 

16 Clean Power Plan. As we go into the UN climate 

17 talks, we hope you will do everything you can to 

18 ensure it stays strong through the process. 

19 Future generations are counting on your 

20 leadership. 

21 Thank you. 

22 MS. ZINKL: Janice Zinkl, J-A-N-I-C-E 
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1 Z-I-N-K-L. 

2 I have lived in Colorado for 34 years in 

3 the Denver area. I am talking today as a 

4 concerned citizen and as a member of the Sierra 

5 Club, and I want to thank you for giving me the 

6 opportunity to comment today. 

7 I am here to speak in support of the 

8 EPA’s Clean Power Plan and comment on the 

9 recently-proposed federal implementation plan. 

10 There are many reasons why I am concerned with 

11 carbon emissions from power plants, but my major 

12 concern today is health. Conventional power 

13 plants emit conventional and toxic pollutants, 

14 which contribute to the incident of respiratory 

15 and heart disease causing premature death. On 

16 the other end of the age spectrum, it contributes 

17 to an increase in the incidence of asthma in 

18 schoolchildren. These issues, bad for everyone, 

19 tend to have a greater impact on minority and 

20 low-income indigenous communities than on the 

21 population in general. 

22 The Clean Power Plan will decrease the 
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1 incidence of these diseases through its reduction 

2 on emissions. That’s why the plan must achieve 

3 the pollution reductions that it has now, or go 

4 even further in its final form. 

5 Thank you. 

6 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 

7 Up next we have Ron Lehr and Carol Davis, 

8 please. 

9 And on deck, R.J. Harrington and Kim 

10 Stevens. 

11 MR. LEHR: Good morning. 

12 MS. NOONAN: Good morning. 

13 MR. LEHR: I’m Ron Lehr. That’s R-O-N 

14 L-E-H-R. 

15 I appreciate the opportunity to be heard 

16 on the topic of the Clean Power Plan and its 

17 details for implementation. I have a written 

18 statement I’ll submit at the end of this, but I’d 

19 like to summarize it in my oral testimony, if I 

20 could. 

21 It occurred to me in thinking about this 

22 that there’s a problem that’s fundamental and 
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1 pretty basic and hasn’t had enough attention. So 

2 I thought I would lay that out. I’m a lawyer. 

3 I’m a 38-year veteran of clean energy wars here 

4 in Colorado here. We’re having some success. 

5 The Clean Power Plan is a terrific thing, and I 

6 support it. But out of that experience, I’ve 

7 recognized that the utilities that are the 

8 subject of this rule have certain financial 

9 incentives, and those are to maintain their 

10 investment in the plants that are the subject of 

11 this rule. So the utilities make their money by 

12 investing equity in those pants and earning an 

13 equity return, and that’s the biggest part of 

14 their business plan. So that’s fundamentally at 

15 odds with what the Clean Power Plan has in mind. 

16 We need to move on from those old plants, but the 

17 utilities want to hold onto them, because it’s in 

18 their interests financially to do that. So 

19 there’s misaligned incentives. That’s the 

20 fundamental problem. 

21 Now, not to leave you with just bad news, 

22 the good news is that there’s a lot of work being 
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1 done on realigning those incentives so that they 

2 are in favor of the clean energy that’s at the 

3 base of the Clean Power Plan. Utilities are 

4 thinking about their business models, and their 

5 regulators, who regulate the bulk of the 

6 investor-owned utilities that are subject to the 

7 plan, are thinking and talking about changing 

8 these incentives. 

9 There’s a number of other motivations for 

10 that. It’s not just the Clean Power Plan, but 

11 it’s certainly one of the motivating factors. 

12 New technology is changing how customers can get 

13 their energy. The demographics of the aging coal 

14 fleet mean that these plants are eventually going 

15 to retire. And there’s limited earning potential 

16 for utilities because of reduced load growth, 

17 mostly due to efficiency measures, some of which 

18 are huge successes of the EPA. 

19 There are incentives presented in the 

20 Clean Power Plan. There are all kinds of them. 

21 I’ve been looking at them, and they ought to be 

22 more explicit. If we get more explicit about who 
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1 has what incentives, who will do a better job of 

2 work like this. But if the utilities’ economic 

3 incentives were aligned with the outcomes of the 

4 Clean Power Plan, instead of contradicting them, 

5 this would be a lot easier job, and your lives as 

6 EPA employees would be a lot more fun and 

7 prosperous. 

8 There is good information, and I’ve 

9 detailed it in my written statement, on the 

10 America’s Power Plan website that goes through 

11 how the changes in regulation of the utility 

12 business models are coming up. And I want to 

13 mention a part of that work is about performance 

14 standards, performance regulation, and rewards 

15 utilities for things society wants. Right now 

16 they get rewarded for investing money in power 

17 plants. We want to reward them for doing clean 

18 energy. 

19 So I have some recommendations for EPA. 

20 I’d like to close with these. Realize that what 

21 the CPP, the Clean Power Plan, asks of utilities 

22 is fundamentally not in their economic interest. 
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1 Assess what incentives are already in the Clean 

2 Power Plan rules, and what could be addressed as 

3 the rules change and mature. This is not an end 

4 state. This is not the end of the world. This 

5 is the start. Consider how utilities would be 

6 provided with price cap or revenue cap regulation 

7 by performance incentives that would reward them 

8 for achieving or going beyond the minimum 

9 requirements in these Clean Power Plan standards. 

10 Ask how EPA – this is an important one. Ask how 

11 EPA’s review of state plans and proposals could 

12 be developed and accomplished with the reforms to 

13 incentives that I’ve been talking about in mind. 

14 So could there be some faster reactions from EPA 

15 if a plan aligned incentives properly, or could 

16 those proposals go to the top of the stack as EPA 

17 is going through. Review the federal default 

18 rule proposal, the trading regime, and the 

19 framework regulations with an eye toward building 

20 in attention to utility business models as they 

21 change, and the incentives that go along with 

22 them as regulation reforms itself to support 
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1 those new business models. Find ways to help. 

2 There’s a lot of work going on in academia, in 

3 the trade associations that affect the industry, 

4 in non-profit groups, and in the utilities 

5 themselves. The EPA could be a partner in this, 

6 and start to help align the incentives with its 

7 outcomes. And then, finally, support the result. 

8 A clean energy future should be the utilities’ 

9 most profitable course of action. 

10 Thank you very much. 

11 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

12 Ms. Davis? 

13 MR. LEHR: Do I hand this to you? 

14 MS. NOONAN: Just keep it for a minute. 

15 We’re going to stay after Ms. Davis is done. 

16 MR. LEHR: Okay. 

17 MS. DAVIS: Good morning. My name is 

18 Carol Davis. I am the coordinator of Dine 

19 Citizens Against Ruining our Environment. I have 

20 lived over 40 years in Dilcon Navajo Nation, 

21 Arizona, and have worked over 17 years as a 

22 public administrator to fight for the rights of 
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1 my communities to have clean, safe air and water, 

2 as well as sustainable climate. As someone who 

3 has immediate family who live near the dirty and 

4 polluting San Juan Generating Station, I know all 

5 too well the devastating health and environmental 

6 impacts of coal-fired power plants. I am glad to 

7 know that EPA recognizes those impacts and is 

8 working through the Clean Power Plan and in other 

9 ways to mitigate them. 

10 I’m here today to talk about the needs of 

11 tribes like the Navajo Nation, and the 

12 implementation process for the Clean Power Plan. 

13 This is not a simple process, and it’s crucial 

14 that EPA take into consideration the needs and 

15 expectations of tribal communities. This is 

16 especially important at this hearing in 

17 particular since some tribal communities may be 

18 subjected to the federal implementation plan, 

19 rather than one of their own. 

20 First, whether or not a tribe is included 

21 in the federal impact plan or writes their own 

22 plan, they should retain the ability to work with 
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1 states to trade and sell credits. This is 

2 crucial to ensuring that tribes are full partners 

3 in this work with all options available to 

4 states, and that our communities be left out of 

5 the significant benefits and -– and that our 

6 communities not be left out of the significant 

7 benefits that are available under the Clean 

8 Energy Initiative Program. We have been 

9 overlooked and left out too many times to count 

10 in the past. That must not happen here. 

11 Second, the CEIP must include guidelines 

12 for how the proceeds from selling credits 

13 obtained through the CEIP should be allocated. 

14 Without these guidelines, private developers 

15 could profit from the CEIP and will have no 

16 incentive to share those credits with local 

17 communities. This sets up tribes for a familiar 

18 pattern where outside forces come onto our land 

19 and profit from our natural resources without 

20 giving back meaningfully to the communities. I 

21 urge EPA to closely examine this issue, and issue 

22 guidelines that will ensure that communities 
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1 benefit, as well as private developers. 

2 I came here to make sure that as you 

3 consider the details of the federal 

4 implementation plan you remember tribal nations 

5 and the people they represent. We will be among 

6 some of the most impacted communities in relation 

7 to the federal implementation plan. Please keep 

8 us in mind as you make your final decisions. 

9 Thank you. 

10 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 

11 R.J. Harrington and Kim Stevens, please. 

12 MR. HARRINGTON: Am I first? 

13 MS. NOONAN: Please. 

14 MR. HARRINGTON: Good morning. I’m R.J. 

15 Harrington, H-A-R-R-I-N-G-T-O-N, and I am the 

16 President and CEO of Sustainable Action 

17 Consulting, a public benefit corporation. I’m 

18 also a member of Environmental Entrepreneurs. 

19 And as a member of the business community, we 

20 applaud the Clean Power Plan because we 

21 understand it sends a strong, clear message to 

22 the private sector to invest in low carbon energy 
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1 technologies like solar, wind, energy efficiency. 

2 It will help expand our state’s already strong 

3 clean economy. 

4 Some examples: Colorado’s booming wind 

5 energy industry alone has created between seven 

6 and 6,000 jobs across the state at more than 20 

7 manufacturing plants, and nearly 30 wind farms. 

8 All told, Colorado’s wind industry employs nearly 

9 10 percent of the entire US wind industry 

10 workforce. Wind also attracted nearly $5 billion 

11 in investment capital to our state and saved 

12 Colorado more than $20 million in fuel costs. 

13 Not just an urban solution, rural 

14 counties like Logan, Prowers, Weld, and Lincoln, 

15 those wind farms there have created a much-needed 

16 revenue stream for farmers and ranchers. Because 

17 of the small, unobtrusive wind turbine 

18 footprints, farmers and ranchers can continue to 

19 work their land for agricultural purposes while 

20 simultaneously raking in lease payments. 

21 Combined, Colorado’s wind industry generates 

22 nearly $8 million annually in lease payments to 
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1 farmers, ranchers, and other land owners. The 

2 wind turbine lease payments, essentially a new 

3 cash crop, help boost school district budgets so 

4 they can hire more teachers and buy more books. 

5 Solar energy is also growing Colorado’s 

6 economy, thanks in part to ongoing construction 

7 in Pueblo at what will be the state’s largest 

8 solar farm. Colorado ranks tenth in the top 10 

9 for a fifth consecutive quarter with the latest 

10 clean energy jobs rankings published by the 

11 national nonpartisan business group, 

12 Environmental Entrepreneurs. 

13 Now, sadly, Colorado has slipped over the 

14 years. We used to be in the top three; but we 

15 can regain that capacity with all the solar 

16 resources we have at our disposal. Across 

17 Colorado about 4,200 people work in the solar 

18 industry, and they’ve helped install enough solar 

19 capacity in the state to power more than 76,000 

20 homes, rising each day. 

21 Energy efficiency also has a huge role to 

22 play in cutting our carbon emissions while 
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1 growing our economy. Smarter energy in our 

2 homes, businesses, and schools is the cheapest, 

3 cleanest, and fastest way for states like 

4 Colorado to meet the CPP. Scaling up efficiency 

5 could save $4.8 billion and create 7,000 jobs 

6 over the next decade. That’s another recent 

7 report from E2 and the Golden-Based Energy 

8 Efficiency Business Coalition. So we can grow 

9 our economy, create great jobs, and attract more 

10 capital to our state. I actually represent a 

11 number of different companies that are looking at 

12 the CPP to see how they can either grow their 

13 business, shift their business plan, or create 

14 entirely new businesses under their existing 

15 business plan. 

16 As Sustainable Action Consulting, I also 

17 do business as National Car Charging, installing 

18 the electric vehicle supply equipment 

19 infrastructure business. One of the things 

20 electric vehicle proponents want to ensure that 

21 we avoid is that utilities are not penalized if 

22 load growth occurs because of the addition of new 
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1 electric vehicles, plug-in hybrids, and the like. 

2 It’s very critical that either mass or rate base 

3 take this load growth into consideration. 

4 And Cate, Jenny, and Laura, finally, I’m 

5 here on behalf of my children. Maive, age 12, and 

6 Connell, age nine, are in school today. They 

7 can’t make it down. They haven’t been able to 

8 make it down for any of the hearings, but they’ve 

9 asked me each and every time that they know that 

10 I’m coming to make sure that I speak for them and 

11 their peers. They want to breathe clean air. 

12 They want a decarbonized economy so that they can 

13 accelerate their futures. 

14 Thanks so much. 

15 MS. STEVENS: I thank you all for having 

16 all of us here today and hearing our testimony. 

17 My name is Kim Stevens. I am the Director of 

18 Environment Colorado, a statewide environmental 

19 advocacy nonprofit. We are funded by tens of 

20 thousands of Coloradans across the state as we 

21 work to protect Colorado’s air, water, and open 

22 spaces, and tackle big issues like global 
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1 warming. On behalf of Environment Colorado, I 

2 really appreciate the opportunity to be here and 

3 provide feedback on the model plan and the 

4 federal implementation plan. 

5 Here in Colorado and across the country, 

6 we’re definitely all feeling the impacts of a 

7 changing climate. So whether I’m up in northern 

8 Colorado talking to a farmer who is having to 

9 change when they plant their tomatoes because of 

10 unprecedented rains, the ski owner on the west 

11 slope who is concerned about snow or ski seasons 

12 every year, or the families up in Lyons who are 

13 still rebuilding after the historic floods, folks 

14 in Colorado are feeling the impacts of a changing 

15 climate. And we know that one of the biggest 

16 contributors to the pollution that is fueling 

17 global warming is carbon pollution from coal18 fired power plants. So we definitely thank the 

19 EPA and the Obama Administration for moving 

20 forward with the Clean Power Plan. And that’s 

21 why it’s imperative to make sure that we’re 

22 implementing this plan as quickly as possible and 
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1 make sure it’s really accelerating our transition 

2 to a truly clean energy future. 

3 States across the country, including 

4 right here in Colorado, have huge potential when 

5 it comes to renewable energy. So in Colorado we 

6 already get well over 12 percent of our energy 

7 from wind. And we have the potential, the solar 

8 potential to power the entire state 362 times 

9 over, which is pretty impressive. 

10 And then energy efficiency is a no11 brainer. It offers us huge untapped potential to 

12 get more done while using less electricity. 

13 Nationally, the American Council for Energy14 Efficient Economy estimates that we could reduce 

15 overall energy use across the country and across 

16 the economy by 40 to 60 percent by 2050 just by 

17 using more energy efficiency tools that we have 

18 at our fingertips. 

19 So to make sure that we’re truly 

20 addressing the climate crisis, we need to quickly 

21 accelerate to a 100 percent clean energy future. 

22 The Clean Power Plan is a great tool to get us on 
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1 that trajectory. And as the EPA finalizes the 

2 model rule and the federal implementation plan, 

3 we strongly encourage that you ensure that these 

4 programs encourage investment in clean energy 

5 resources like wind, solar, and energy efficiency 

6 as much as possible. 

7 And then I have three other 

8 recommendations for these plans. One, that the 

9 faster the EPA can finalize the model rule and 

10 the federal implementation plan, the more 

11 certainty states will have as they develop their 

12 compliance plans and the quicker they can move 

13 forward. So we urge the EPA to consider whether 

14 some components can be finalized shortly after 

15 the comment period closes. 

16 Second, the EPA should apply federal plan 

17 provisions quickly should a state decline to 

18 create their own state plan and carry out its 

19 responsibilities. 

20 Then third, EPA needs to ensure that 

21 affected power plants abide by enforceable limits 

22 in their emissions of global warming pollution. 
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1 So thank you all for this opportunity to 

2 speak, and I really appreciate, and Environment 

3 Colorado, and our members appreciate your action 

4 pushing forward the Clean Power Plan. Thank you. 

5 MS. NOONAN: Great. Thank you both. 

6 Okay. With that, we’re going to take a 

7 10-minute break. The hearing will resume in 10 

8 minutes. 

9 (Whereupon, at 10:35 a.m., a brief recess 

10 was taken, to reconvene at 10:51 a.m.) 

11 MS. NOONAN: All right. Thank you, 

12 everyone. I think we’re going to get started. 

13 Up next we have James Hughes and Sandy 

14 Butterfield. 

15 And on deck, Garrett Sullivan and Karyn 

16 Weller-Coffman. 

17 Just as a reminder, for our wonderful 

18 court reporter, please spell your name as you 

19 begin. 

20 Mr. Hughes, you can start. 

21 MR. HUGHES: All right. I’m James 

22 Hughes, just a crazy independent sports 
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1 individual. I do a lot of fly fishing. 

2 MS. NOONAN: Grab the microphone and 

3 spell your name, please. 

4 MR. HUGHES: James Hughes, J-A-M-E-S 

5 H-U-G-H-E-S. I’m here today not to really talk 

6 about the economics, because we all know that, 

7 for instance, Germany, over 30 percent of their 

8 electricity comes from wind and solar. 

9 We’re sitting back here and we have every 

10 day, I don’t know how many times that day you see 

11 a commercial about it’s been 65 years and you’ve 

12 never had a problem with fracking. Well, the 

13 reality is if you go to, let’s say, Josh Fox 

14 concerning Gasland One or Gasland Two, the 

15 reality of what goes on right now in the country 

16 is very scary. 

17 Of the inspectors in Colorado -- we have 

18 over 144,000 wells. The answer to our problem is 

19 we have the toughest regulations in the country. 

20 That’s true, but they only have seven inspectors. 

21 68 percent of wells are never inspected. 

22 And so we’ve gone around this little fun 
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1 game. We’ve had British Petroleum. They changed 

2 their name to Beyond Petroleum. It should be 

3 changed to Beyond Pollution. 

4 Condensers in and around the City of 

5 Houston, they put out more pollution from 

6 fracking oil wells -– they put more pollution 

7 than all the gas or oil wells around the City of 

8 Houston. And we need to change the direction 

9 we’re going. 

10 We’re looking – we’re looking at lowering 

11 the pH of the oceans, besides just global 

12 warming. We could also end, of course, global 

13 warming by not eating any meat due to the amount 

14 of gas the cows put out as far as methane, but 

15 no. It’s crazy from the standpoint – my favorite 

16 little t-shirt that I’ve got is, “Frack me now; 

17 fruck me later.” But it’s –- it’s total 

18 insanity. 

19 And basically we’re seeing millions of 

20 dollars spent for advertisements for Heartland 

21 Institute that each year gets together and they 

22 put together millions of dollars with COCE money 
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1 and other government -– other agencies from all 

2 the dear old oil companies denying global 

3 warming. 

4 And of course you know in Greenland now 

5 they’re having – they’re growing vegetables again 

6 outdoors. And we’re looking what’s happening on 

7 the west side of dear old Antarctica. We’ve got 

8 six glaciers that are melting, and the commentary 

9 by the right is, “Well, the pack ice on the east 

10 side is increasing.” That’s true, but the pack 

11 ice is increasing only because of the high winds 

12 that are blowing across 3,000 miles of the Arctic 

13 at higher velocities and the pack ice is 

14 extending across. No. Onward and downward. The 

15 lies that are going out there is just 

16 incomprehensible. Like I like to say about 

17 somebody on the right, never have so few worked 

18 so hard to screw so many as far as the 

19 environment. 

20 Thank you. 

21 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

22 Mr. Butterfield? 
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1 MR. BUTTERFIELD: Thank you. Thank you 

2 for hearing my comments. My name is Charles 

3 Perry Butterfield, sometimes known as Sandy 

4 Butterfield. I’m very often known as Sandy 

5 Butterfield. My name’s spelled Butterfield, 

6 B-U-T-T-E-R-F-I-E-L-D. The first names is 

7 Charles, C-H-A-R-L-E-S. 

8 My testimony today comes from the 

9 position of experience. I’ve been in the wind 

10 industry for 40 years. During that time I 

11 witnessed the technology mature tremendously. My 

12 experience has always been in technology. In the 

13 late Seventies and the early Eighties, I owned a 

14 company called ESI. We designed and manufactured 

15 wind turbines and installed them in California. 

16 In 1985 I joined the National Renewable Energy 

17 Laboratory, and became their chief technology 

18 officer or the chief engineer. I was responsible 

19 for the research side of their program. So I 

20 personally was responsible for aerodynamics 

21 testing, aerodynamics research, controls 

22 research, reliability research, and multiple 
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1 other aspects of the various technologies that 

2 make wind energy a success. During that time 

3 period we were always concerned about the cost of 

4 energy. That’s always been the goal. My last 

5 job was –- I left the National Renewable Energy 

6 Laboratory in 2009, and started a company called 

7 Boulder Wind Power. We developed direct-drive 

8 generators for the wind industry. 

9 The point I really want to make is that 

10 there are no technical challenges to what we need 

11 to do in this country. There was a very good 

12 report done by the Department of Energy with many 

13 industry collaboratives called The Wind Vision, 

14 and it spelled out in infinite detail how we can 

15 get to 80 percent renewable energy by the year 

16 2050. These are all doable technical challenges. 

17 I think we’ve proven that multiple times. The 

18 states in our own country have proven that 

19 operating very high penetrations. Texas, for 

20 example, operates today at an annual energy share 

21 of nine percent. They’ve reached penetrations, 

22 short-term penetrations of up to 60 percent. 
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1 There is Iowa who operates annually at 28 and a 

2 half percent; South Dakota, 25 percent; Kansas, 

3 21 percent; Idaho, 28 percent, and so on. 

4 Colorado itself gets 13 percent of their energy 

5 from wind. Each of those states have shown in 

6 short-term basis that they can produce energy at 

7 much higher penetrations, up to 60 percent. 

8 If you go to the European countries like 

9 Denmark, you’ve seen annual penetrations of 40 

10 percent this past year. And for months at a 

11 time, you can see penetrations of 80 percent; and 

12 for hours and sometimes days 100 to 120 percent 

13 of their energy coming from wind energy. 

14 So this proves that the stability issues 

15 that people sometimes talk about are solvable 

16 problems. 

17 Now, to be fair, these are all done by 

18 being connected to other sources of energy. So 

19 it will always take a mix of energy to get to 

20 these levels, but we are absolutely capable of 

21 doing this. We’ve proven it in multiple places, 

22 Denmark at 40 percent, Spain at 21 percent, and 
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1 Germany at 14 percent. These are countries, very 

2 large countries, obviously, that operate very 

3 successfully at high penetrations of variable 

4 energy sources, solar, wind, other sources that 

5 produce variable power. 

6 We know how to manage these things from a 

7 utilities standpoint. So the challenges are not 

8 technical. The challenges are policy. This 

9 policy, I believe, is the best chance of really 

10 helping to accelerate a renewable clean future. 

11 And I think that it’s one that we stand on the 

12 threshold of introducing. We’ve tried many times 

13 at others. This, I think, is a fair and 

14 equitable and expedient way of reducing our 

15 carbon footprint and hopefully guaranteeing a 

16 clean future, and a sustainable future. 

17 I continue to be concerned about energy 

18 independence. I think it’s key to political 

19 stability in our world. And I think this is an 

20 essential ingredient in this process. 

21 I am a believer in wildlife. I’m a lover 

22 of wildlife. I believe that this is the key for 
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1 an economically stable future. I think it’s the 

2 key to global warming solutions. And for my son, 

3 I am one of the people who really does think this 

4 is the key. He’s working in wind energy as well. 

5 So thank you very much for hearing my 

6 comments. I believe that this is a wonderful 

7 thing that you’re doing, and I hope and pray that 

8 you will continue it. And anything that I can do 

9 to help, I would love to do that. 

10 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 

11 Okay. Up next Garrett Sullivan and Karyn 

12 Weller-Coffman, please. 

13 And on deck, Pam Eaton and Emily Fischer. 

14 Karyn Weller-Coffman? 

15 Okay. Is Pam Eaton available to go now? 

16 Thank you. 

17 Mr. Sullivan, you want to start? Grab 

18 the mic and spell your name. 

19 MR. SULLIVAN: My full name is Steven 

20 Garrett Sullivan. I go by my middle name, 

21 Garrett, but TSA at the airport knows me as 

22 Steven. 
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1 I am speaking as a private individual, 

2 and as a retired physician who took the 

3 Hippocratic Oath to first do no harm, which is an 

4 important part of the attempted regulations, 

5 which are being implemented by the EPA. 

6 As a biology student in 1974, some years 

7 back, I was introduced to the concept of carbon 

8 dioxide as a greenhouse gas, and at that time 

9 that was not widely recognized. I believe Al 

10 Gore has some experience, and it stuck with him 

11 through his political career. 

12 As a biology student, however, I was 

13 introduced to ecology and study of the 

14 environment. And there was a concept that is an 

15 important consideration as to why this should be 

16 done quickly and without changes or weakening of 

17 the proposal. It’s the tragedy of the commons. 

18 It’s a term that was coined originally by a 

19 British author in the 1800’s. It was later used 

20 by a biologist at the University of California 

21 Santa Barbara, Garrett Hardin -- I didn’t select 

22 this because it was new -– to denote a situation 
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1 where individuals acting independently and 

2 rationally according to each’s self-interest 

3 behave contrary to the best interests of the 

4 whole group by depleting some common resource. 

5 In this case the commons refers to the 

6 sources such as atmosphere, oceans, rivers, clean 

7 water, clean air, lower CO2 emissions. Free 

8 access and unrestricted demand for a finite 

9 resource ultimately reduces the resource through 

10 overexploitation, temporarily or permanently. 

11 This occurs because the benefits of exploitation 

12 accrue to individuals or groups, each of whom is 

13 motivated to maximize the use of the resource to 

14 the point at which they become reliant on it 

15 while the costs of the exploitation are borne by 

16 all those to whom the resource is available. 

17 This, in turn, causes demand for the resources to 

18 increase, which causes the problem to snowball 

19 until the resource collapses. And that can be 

20 applied to any of the limited resources we have, 

21 including an atmosphere that is not degraded by 

22 carbon dioxide. 
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1 In our schools, in our raising of our 

2 children, we try to encourage them to plan for 

3 the future. We use fables and fairy tales to 

4 point it out. The Ant and the Grasshopper comes 

5 to mind. The grasshopper fiddles away his 

6 summer, dances away the summer doing nothing 

7 while the ant prepares for the winter. Come fall 

8 and winter, the grasshopper’s hungry, approaches 

9 the ant for help, and the ant says, “No. You 

10 should have taken care of this before on your 

11 own.” It seems to me that we should apply the 

12 wisdom that we’re trying to teach our children 

13 for the benefit of our children and implement 

14 EPA’s Clean Power Plan as soon as possible 

15 without changes. 

16 Thank you. 

17 MS. EATON: Hi. My name is Pam Eaton 

18 with the Wilderness Society. My last name is 

19 spelled E-A-T-O-N. Thank you for the opportunity 

20 to speak today on the importance of the Clean 

21 Power Plan. I am the Senior Director of the 

22 Carbon Emissions Reduction Campaign for the 
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1 Wilderness Society. The Wilderness Society is a 

2 not-for-profit organization dedicated for more 

3 than 75 years to the protection and management of 

4 our nation’s public lands. 

5 As part of our work to find solutions to 

6 reduce carbon emissions, I have served on the 

7 Western Electricity Coordinating Council’s 

8 Scenario Planning Steering Group, and there are 

9 exciting changes emerging in the west 

10 transmission grid and electricity markets that 

11 can help create new solutions to the challenge of 

12 carbon pollution. With that said, we will need a 

13 strong federal implementation plan to ensure that 

14 all the states contribute to those solutions. 

15 The Clean Power Plan aims to reduce 

16 carbon pollution, and that is a major threat to 

17 our public lands. It will help reduce the risks 

18 of habitat shift, degradation, and alteration 

19 that will occur as temperatures warm, 

20 precipitation pattern shifts, intensifying forest 

21 fires, floods, and droughts, ocean chemistry 

22 changes, and sea level rise. These are all risks 
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1 for public lands, and for all of us here in the 

2 West. 

3 The Clean Power Plan gives states 

4 flexibility in meeting the emission reduction 

5 targets from fossil fuel-fired power plants. The 

6 EPA is encouraging states to design cost7 effective ways to reduce the carbon pollution, 

8 modernize our energy system, and create jobs in 

9 the clean energy sector while protecting wildlife 

10 and our public lands in ways that make sense for 

11 each state. 

12 In the West the emergence of an energy 

13 imbalance market, the partnership between the 

14 PacificCorp and the California Integrated System 

15 Operator, planned transmission expansions, and 

16 renewable energy projects, and other changes in 

17 the development and operation of the grid provide 

18 opportunities for new, creative approaches to 

19 reduce our overall carbon emissions from fossil 

20 fuel-fired power plants. These changes, I think, 

21 are exciting and some that the states can really 

22 take advantage of in trying to approach this in a 
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1 creative way. 

2 Equally important to these changes and to 

3 the role of the states is that backstop provided 

4 by the proposed federal implementation plan for 

5 states that are unwilling to meet the carbon 

6 pollution reduction targets in the Clean Power 

7 Plan. 

8 The federal plan should be strong in 

9 order to ensure proper pollution reductions and 

10 encourage renewable energy solutions. States 

11 have a chance to find and implement great 

12 solutions, but this will ensure that there’s a 

13 backstop if some of them don’t rise to that 

14 challenge. 

15 The Clean Power Plan is part of a 

16 comprehensive strategy to reduce carbon 

17 emissions. On our public lands we’re working to 

18 reduce methane emissions form the oil and gas 

19 sector and site-renewable energy and transmission 

20 to make renewable energy on public lands possible 

21 in a way that minimizes its impacts on wildlife 

22 and wild lands. But making changes to reduce 
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1 carbon emissions from power plants is the 

2 critical step if we’re going to achieve our 

3 carbon pollution goals. 

4 So thank you for this opportunity to 

5 comment on the plan today, and we encourage you 

6 to move forward and strengthen the federal 

7 implementation plan, and for each of the states 

8 to pursue creative solutions that include 

9 regional coordination and cooperation. 

10 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. And anything in 

11 your written comments that could elaborate on the 

12 changes in the West would be helpful. 

13 MS. EATON: Sure. 

14 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

15 Is Karyn Weller-Coffman here? 

16 Okay. Emily Fischer? 

17 Karyn Weller-Coffman and Emily Fischer, 

18 please. 

19 Spell your name. 

20 MS. WELLER-COFFMAN: Hi. My name is 

21 Karyn, K-A-R-Y-N. Weller-Coffman is hyphenated, 

22 W-E-L-L-E-R, hyphen, C-O-F-F-M-A-N. 
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1 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

2 MS. WELLER-COFFMAN: I am here speaking 

3 as a mother and a grandmother, and a third4 generation Coloradan. I am very proud of the 

5 state we live in because of its clean air and 

6 water and clean environment, healthy environment. 

7 People come here from all over to enjoy those 

8 things. And I’m coming here to speak as a mother 

9 and grandmother because I am really concerned 

10 about the toxins that we’re all exposed to. And 

11 that’s why I am in favor of the plan as set out, 

12 so that we can all enjoy a country and a state 

13 and a world that is in favor of the good for all. 

14 I lost a son to cancer when he was 26. 

15 He was diagnosed two months before he was 19, and 

16 I believe that his cancer was caused by 

17 environmental toxins. And so I’m looking forward 

18 to the birth of another grandson in March, and 

19 I’m looking forward to a good healthy planet for 

20 all our young people to grow up in. I don’t want 

21 to look at them and answer the question, “Why 

22 didn’t you do something?” So that’s why I’m 
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1 here. I’m speaking up for them. 

2 And I want to share a wonderful quote by 

3 Dr. Seuss, and it is this: “Unless someone like 

4 you cares a whole lot, a whole awful lot, nothing 

5 is going to get better. It’s not.” 

6 Thank you. 

7 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

8 MS. FISCHER: Hi. My name is Emily 

9 Fischer. It’s spelled F-I-S-C-H-E-R. And I’m 

10 here speaking as a sister. I wanted to say -– 

11 That quote gets me every time. 

12 -- that I wasn’t around when the EPA was 

13 created, or when the Clean Air Act was signed, or 

14 the Clean Water Act was signed, but I feel its 

15 impacts in my life and life of my brothers all 

16 the time because they both have asthma. And we 

17 grew up in the industrial Midwest, and I know the 

18 Clean Air Act is why they are able to be healthy 

19 and active. They’re more active than I am most 

20 of the time. And I think that 30, 45 years from 

21 now we’re going to be looking at the Clean Power 

22 Plan and saying this made a difference in 
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1 people’s lives. And so I want to thank you guys 

2 for the work that you’re doing. I’m sure it’s 

3 really hard. But just to let you know that it’s 

4 really going to make an impact on people’s lives 

5 and the lives of their family. 

6 And I think that Colorado is really well7 positioned to be a leader in this. I’m excited 

8 that the governor is working to put together an 

9 implementation plan. I wanted to encourage you 

10 to finalize model rule frameworks so that it can 

11 move swiftly once the plan is finalized, and just 

12 demonstrate this is something that will work. 

13 And I thank you for hearing me. 

14 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 

15 Up next we have Noah Kaplan and John 

16 Bringenberg. 

17 And on deck we have Bill Peck and Chris 

18 Davis. 

19 MR. KAPLAN: Hi. My name is Noah Kaplan. 

20 It’s spelled N-O-A-H K-A-P-L-A-N. I’m here 

21 speaking as a private individual. 

22 My family moved to Colorado and bought 
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1 our first home six months ago, and we knew that 

2 one of the first things we wanted to do was to 

3 add rooftop solar panels to our home and access 

4 clean, cost-effective solar energy. Thanks to 

5 Colorado’s leadership in adopting policies that 

6 have supported renewable energy and working to 

7 reduce carbon emissions with economic incentives 

8 that work for the private sector, we had plenty 

9 of options out there for being able to do that, 

10 and we were able to quickly start that process 

11 without a lot of upfront costs to us and a lot of 

12 additional financial burden. 

13 Based on Colorado’s leadership, I’m 

14 confident that Colorado will submit a state plan 

15 for compliance with the Clean Power Plan carbon 

16 reduction targets, and that we’ll be able to meet 

17 those goals without economic disruption for 

18 Colorado. But I also know that some of our 

19 neighboring states don’t share Colorado’s 

20 commitment to growing their economies by seizing 

21 the opportunities that renewable energy presents. 

22 And I know that at least some of our neighbors 
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1 will do what it can to continue in the status 

2 quo, relying on dirty energy. 

3 Without a strong federal implementation 

4 plan, carbon emissions from neighboring states 

5 won’t be sufficiently reduced, and Colorado’s 

6 leadership on emission reductions won’t be enough 

7 to stave off the worst effects of global warming. 

8 So, from my point of view, the federal 

9 implementation plan needs to do two important 

10 things. The first is to provide incentives for 

11 states like Colorado that are early-adopters of 

12 renewable energy to continue to grow their 

13 renewable capacity even beyond the goals set in 

14 the Clean Power Plan. And, second, to ensure 

15 that the federal implementation plan includes 

16 clear guidance to lagging states on what they 

17 have to do, and accountability mechanisms for 

18 ensuring that they do it. 

19 I am the father of a three-year-old 

20 daughter, and she’s not old enough to understand 

21 the difference between clean and dirty energy, 

22 and she doesn’t know right now the effects that 
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1 she will see in her future, depending on whether 

2 we continue with the status quo, or move towards 

3 increased renewable energy. But in a few years 

4 from now when she gets older, I want to be able 

5 to point to the solar panels we put on our house 

6 and explain to her the tangible effect, the 

7 tangible part that we played in making progress 

8 towards clean air and a clean environment. And 

9 if Colorado’s neighbors aren’t part of the 

10 solution, then we won’t achieve that kind of 

11 tangible progress, and I won’t be able to show 

12 her that impact that we make. 

13 So I’m asking that you please act quickly 

14 to finalize the federal implementation plan and 

15 give Colorado incentives to keep moving towards a 

16 100 percent renewable future, and do what you can 

17 to force our neighbors to catch up. 

18 Thank you. 

19 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

20 MR. BRINGENBERG: Thank you and good 

21 morning. I appreciate the opportunity to submit 

22 formal testimony regarding EPA’s proposed Clean 
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1 Power Plan. My name is John Bringenberg, and I’m 

2 here today from Denver, Colorado representing the 

3 Colorado Solar Energy Industry Association, 

4 COSEIA, and to express my strong support for the 

5 EPA’s historic action and its federal 

6 implementation plan. And I applaud my tablemate 

7 for having solar on his home. 

8 The EPA proposes that the best system for 

9 emissions reduction, or the BSER, includes four 

10 building blocks, heat rate improvements, natural 

11 gas switching, renewable energy measures, and 

12 energy efficiency. 

13 We agree with the EPA that renewable 

14 energy measures are a necessary part of the third 

15 block of this BSER. However, we’re concerned 

16 that renewable energy measures as currently 

17 calculated are incomplete. They do not contain 

18 current solar market data, and they do not 

19 include distributed solar. Therefore, as 

20 currently written, EPA’s proposal understates 

21 emissions reductions achievable through the 

22 application of this BSER. To be clear, solar 
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1 energy is ready to play a much bigger role in the 

2 building block number three. 

3 Timing is a further concern. The EPA’s 

4 plan is set to fully engage in 2022 with the 

5 potential of some near-term actions starting in 

6 2020. However, an unintended consequence of this 

7 timeline could be a downtrend, rather than an 

8 uptrend, in continued deployment of renewable 

9 energy, and specifically utility scale and 

10 distributed solar. Unless extended by Congress, 

11 the federal tax credits now in place for solar 

12 are set to expire at the end of 2016, reduce or 

13 expire. This, along with next-decade plans being 

14 negotiated by the EPA, could have a serious 

15 dampening effect on deployment of alternative 

16 clean solar energy in the near term. 

17 At the risk of oversimplifying a very 

18 complex process, it seems that one of two things 

19 must be supported by both the EPA and the states 

20 in this federal implementation plan. We either 

21 need to recognize and properly account for 

22 external costs of climate change such as a carbon 
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1 tax or higher costs for energy, or we need to 

2 make alternative energy choices more market 

3 attractive than fossil fuel using financial 

4 mechanisms. Since external costs is likely to 

5 take considerable time, and since mechanisms 

6 already exist for the second notion there, we 

7 suggest that we should be supporting in the near 

8 term more financial mechanisms to make 

9 alternative energy choices more market 

10 attractive. 

11 And I would just point out two of those, 

12 which I think should be at the lead of the pack 

13 in working with states. One is state tax 

14 credits. State tax credits have proven to be 

15 among the best mechanisms to generate positive 

16 state returns and job development while 

17 encouraging wide deployment of both large-scale 

18 and distributed solar generation. RTI 

19 International has calculated that the North 

20 Carolina renewable energy sales tax returns $1.93 

21 for every dollar spent, nearly a two to one net 

22 benefit to the people of North Carolina. One of 
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1 the specific and selfish benefits of a well2 designed state tax benefit program is that it 

3 generates substantial economic development which 

4 stays in the borders of the state. 

5 Next, SRECs continue to be the principal 

6 system for measuring the compliance plus the 

7 attributes of renewable energy for energy 

8 producers and the private sector. But those few 

9 states with active SREC trading markets, they’re 

10 seeing robust development, but those are those 

11 states with deregulated retail energy, just a 

12 few. So the challenge for the EPA in the states 

13 is to find creative ways to establish state-wide 

14 and ultimately national supported markets for 

15 SRECs where off-takers, corporations, developers, 

16 and investors can either monetize renewable 

17 energy, or claim them as green benefits. 

18 Just to summarize, we feel the Clean 

19 Power Plan will ultimately need to balance and 

20 reconcile higher costs for fossil fuels and a 

21 more attractive cost for clean energy 

22 alternatives. Support and expansion of existing 
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1 programs is vital while the long-term state 

2 programs are negotiated and implemented. We 

3 can’t miss a beat there. And the EPA should 

4 encourage the wide adoption of state tax credit 

5 programs and find creative ways to establish SREC 

6 trading markets. 

7 Thank you for your good work and critical 

8 work on this global issue. 

9 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. For the benefit 

10 of the transcript, could you spell out what SREC 

11 stands for? 

12 MR. BRINGENBERG: Solar renewable energy 

13 credits. 

14 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

15 Okay. Up next we have Bill Peck and 

16 Chris Davis. 

17 MR. PECK: Thank you for allowing me to 

18 submit formal testimony today for the Clean Power 

19 Plan, an aggressive policy which focusses efforts 

20 to reduce CO2 emissions of existing power plants. 

21 Better? 

22 MS. NOONAN: Are you Mr. Peck? 
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1 MR. PECK: I am. My name is Bill Peck. 

2 MS. NOONAN: Great. Thank you. 

3 MR. PECK: I support implementation of 

4 the CPP. Not only will the plan help our nation 

5 to address climate change, but it will further 

6 protect our natural environment for the benefit 

7 of future generations. 

8 I also support the plan as another means 

9 to increase the rate at which our economy moves 

10 towards the use of advanced energy sources such 

11 as hydropower, wind, solar, combined heat and 

12 power, transmission and distribution 

13 efficiencies, and end-use efficiencies. 

14 To encourage the use of advanced energy, 

15 the EPA should implement only one plan type; that 

16 is either a mass-based or a rate-based plan in 

17 each state that has a federal plan. This will 

18 ease interstate trading of emission reduction 

19 credits, or ERCs. States under the federal plan 

20 should be able to use advanced energy to include 

21 energy efficiency to meet their compliance 

22 targets. Such provisions will minimize costs to 
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1 power producers, and also help create an eligible 

2 market for compliance measures such as the 

3 trading of ERCs, or emissions reduction credits. 

4 Again, energy efficiency and distributed 

5 generation should count in a state’s reductions 

6 efforts. 

7 Thank you. Thanks for the good work. 

8 MR. DAVIS: Hello. My name’s Chris 

9 Davis, and I’d like to start off by just thanking 

10 the EPA for all the hard work they’re been doing 

11 over the years. 

12 Today I speak to you as a member of the 

13 running community. Here in Colorado runners are 

14 typically kind of a passive group of people who 

15 kind of steer away from politics, but this is a 

16 pretty important issue in my community. Speaking 

17 as a student athlete and an employee of a 

18 locally-owned run specialty store, we understand 

19 that the importance of protecting our environment 

20 is something huge and feel that we want to 

21 continue to keep clean parks and clean rivers 

22 very important and protected by these sort of 
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1 implementations. 

2 Importantly to me, speaking as somebody 

3 who travels around the country to compete at 

4 various events throughout our nation, I think 

5 that constraining the wind knows no bounds. It’s 

6 really important that we address these kind of 

7 Clean Power Plan issues. 

8 I’m thankful for the leadership that 

9 Colorado has put forward in reducing carbon 

10 emissions and things like that to help fight 

11 these problems. But moving forward, I think we 

12 need to make sure that other states follow in 

13 line with what we’re doing. And that’s why I 

14 wanted to make sure that when I travel outside 

15 the state to compete I can enjoy the clean air 

16 that we have here in Colorado around the country, 

17 hence, why I believe that in this act we need 

18 incentives to encourage early adaptation of the 

19 EPA’s efforts. 

20 Thank you. 

21 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 

22 We’ve come to 11:30, and there is a brief 
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1 pause here. If there’s anyone in the audience 

2 who has yet signed up or is signed up for a later 

3 time this afternoon but would like to speak now, 

4 we have an opportunity. 

5 Yes, please. 

6 Anybody else? I understand there might 

7 be some weather coming, so if anyone has a later 

8 time and would like to speak, we’re happy to do 

9 that at this time. 

10 MS. SHERWOOD: Good morning. Thank you 

11 for having me back again. I was here before. 

12 MS. NOONAN: Start with your name and how 

13 to spell it, please. 

14 MS. SHERWOOD: Erica Sherwood, 7139 South 

15 Elm Court, Centennial, Colorado. 

16 MS. NOONAN: And you said that was 

17 Sherwood. Could you spell that? 

18 MS. SHERWOOD: Yes. Like the forest. 

19 President Obama’s plan is common sense 

20 getting to encourage American’s participation in 

21 preventing further global warming by diminishing 

22 the greenhouse effect caused by pollution. We 
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1 should all support the incentives offered by this 

2 plan. It promotes clean energy and energy 

3 efficiency. 

4 Americans in the private sector, in 

5 government, and the public are committing to 

6 cleaner energy sources and cutting energy waste. 

7 Solar power technology use is rewarded and 

8 financed, which creates a clean energy economy 

9 worth investing in. Use of wind and solar power 

10 to create electricity is not only for the 

11 nation’s households, but useful for electric 

12 buses as used in Vail, Colorado, electric cars 

13 for our roads, home heating, and new lighting 

14 systems. Many citizens have pledged to reduce 

15 greenhouse gas emissions. 

16 34 United States cities have signed on to 

17 the Compact with new projects for their cities. 

18 Their way to measure progress is through a 

19 transparent and consistent system that provides 

20 accountability. All of this and more must be 

21 accomplished as soon as humanly possible. 

22 It is our duty to protect our currently-
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1 declining bird population as reported by the 

2 Audubon Society. I have these reports here for 

3 you. The report by Atmospheric Environment of 

4 March 2008 regarding insect pollinators shows the 

5 effects of chemical destruction by hydrocarbons 

6 in the air. A study of the melting ice sheets in 

7 this October 14 Nature Magazine proves we need to 

8 curb greenhouse emissions. Finally, a new study 

9 published in Nature reveals that 3.3 million 

10 people a year die from air pollution worldwide. 

11 The United States, with 54,905 deaths in 2010 

12 from soot and smog, ranks the highest for air 

13 pollution deaths. 

14 Pope Francis wishes a courageous and 

15 responsible effort to redirect our steps to avert 

16 the serious effects of environmental 

17 deterioration caused by humans. He stated at the 

18 UN that the United States and Congress should 

19 implement a culture of caring for one another, 

20 and at the same time protect nature. 

21 That’s it. Thank you. 

22 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 
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1 Anybody else in the audience who has not 

2 spoken who would like to? 

3 Okay. Hearing no one, we’re going to 

4 take a pause for just a few minutes, and we’ll 

5 reconvene shortly. 

6 (Whereupon, at 11:30 a.m., a recess was 

7 taken, to reconvene at 11:31 a.m.) 

8 THE REPORTER: We’re on the record. 

9 MS NOONAN: We’re on the record, and we 

10 are going to a recess until 1:00. We welcome you 

11 all back at that time. 

12 Thank you. 

13 (Whereupon, at 11:31 a.m., a luncheon 

14 recess was taken, to reconvene at 1:02 p.m.) 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 
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1 AFTERNOON SESSION 

2 1:02 p.m. 

3 MS. VIDETICH: So good afternoon. 

4 Welcome to today’s –- this afternoon’s public 

5 hearing on Clean Power Plan, the federal plan and 

6 model rules. My name is Callie Videtich, and I’m 

7 here to chair this afternoon’s hearing. And 

8 thank you all for coming today. 

9 Joining me on the panel today are Nick 

10 Swanson to my right, and Ethan Aumann to my left. 

11 Fossil fuel power plants are the 

12 largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 

13 or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 percent of 

14 US total greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing 

15 carbon pollution from power plants is an 

16 essential step in lessening the impacts of 

17 climate change and providing a more certain 

18 future for our environment, our health, and 

19 future generations. 

20 We’re here today to listen to your 

21 comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan and 

22 model rules to implement the Clean Power Plan for 
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1 existing power plants. 

2 On October 23, 2015 the Environmental 

3 Protection Agency published in the Federal 

4 Register its proposed federal plan to implement 

5 emissions guidelines for power plants under 

6 section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. The EPA's 

7 111(d) Rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 

8 effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 

9 affected power plants that began construction on 

10 or before January 8th of 2014. 

11 The federal plan and model trading rules 

12 demonstrate a readily-available path forward for 

13 Clean Power Plan implementation and present 

14 flexible, affordable implementation options for 

15 states. 

16 The model rules provide a cost-effective 

17 pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 

18 the EPA and make it easy for states and power 

19 plants to use emissions trading. It does the 

20 heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 

21 model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 

22 implement the federal plan in any state that does 
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1 not submit an approvable plan. 

2 The proposal includes four discrete 

3 proposed actions, a rate-based federal plan for 

4 each state with affected electric generating 

5 units, or EGUs, or otherwise known as electric 

6 generating units, a mass-based federal plan for 

7 each state with affected EGUs, a rate-based model 

8 trading rule for potential use by any state, and 

9 a mass-based model trading rule for potential use 

10 by any state. 

11 The proposed federal plans will achieve 

12 the same levels of emissions performance as 

13 required of state plans under the Clean Power 

14 Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 

15 those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 

16 determines has failed to submit an approvable 

17 l11(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 

18 in the emissions guidelines. 

19 In those states where a federal plan may 

20 be required, a final federal plan will implement 

21 the same emission guidelines for affected power 

22 plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 
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1 would not require additional control 

2 requirements, or impose additional costs. 

3 Even where a federal plan is put in place 

4 for a particular state, that state will still be 

5 able to submit a plan, which, if approved, will 

6 allow the state and its sources to exit the 

7 federal plan. 

8 States may take delegation of 

9 administrative aspects of the federal plan in 

10 order to become the primary implementers, or 

11 submit a partial state plan in order to take over 

12 the implementation of a portion of a federal 

13 plan. 

14 States operating under a federal plan may 

15 adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 

16 to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 

17 benefit of power generators and consumers. 

18 Can y’all hear me in the back? Is this 

19 being projected? 

20 Okay. I know my voice projects, but I’m 

21 making sure that it’s working back there. 

22 The proposal also includes a model rule 
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1 for those states that are developing their own 

2 state plans. 

3 The EPA intends to finalize both the 

4 rate-based and mass-based model trading rules in 

5 the summer of 2016. A state program that adheres 

6 to the model trading rule provisions specified in 

7 this rulemaking, when final, would presumptively 

8 be approvable. 

9 There are stand-alone portions of the 

10 model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 

11 measurement, and verification procedures for 

12 emission rate credits, otherwise known as ERCs, 

13 that would be approvable even if a state adopted 

14 an approach that differs in other respects from 

15 the model rule. 

16 In addition, the proposal contains a 

17 finding that, if it is necessary or appropriate 

18 to implement a section 111(d) federal plan for 

19 the affected EGUs located in Indian country, C02 

20 emission performance rates for these facilities 

21 were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. 

22 Information on how the EPA will reach out to 
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1 communities throughout the comment period, and an 

2 overview of the actions that the EPA is taking to 

3 ensure that vulnerable communities are not being 

4 disproportionately impacted by this rule. 

5 If you’d like more details on the 

6 proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 

7 the registration desk. 

8 Before we get started, I'd like to 

9 go through a few housekeeping items and ground 

10 rules that will help make today's hearing run 

11 smoothly. First, make sure that you have checked 

12 in at the registration desk, even if you are not 

13 planning to speak today. And if you signed in to 

14 speak online or by phone, but haven't told us 

15 that you're here, please step out to the 

16 registration desk, and let the EPA staff know 

17 that you’ve arrived. 

18 I will call speakers up in pairs. When 

19 your name is called, please come to the speakers' 

20 table at the front of the room. When I call on 

21 you to speak, please state your name and spell it 

22 for the court reporter. Your comments will be 
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1 transcribed and included in the record of 

2 comments on the proposed rule. The court 

3 reporter has asked that, if you could, please 

4 give her a copy of your written testimony to help 

5 ensure that we have a clear record of your 

6 comments. 

7 Each speaker will have five minutes to 

8 give comments. We have a timer light to help you 

9 know how much time you have left to speak. The 

10 timer light is right here. When the light turns 

11 from green to yellow, that means you have one 

12 minute remaining. When it turns to red, that's a 

13 signal that you’re at five minutes and it’s time 

14 to stop. When you are finished speaking, please 

15 remain at the table until the person next to you 

16 has completed his or her testimony. 

17 We are here to listen to you today. 

18 However, a panel member may ask questions to 

19 clarify your comments. I will then call up the 

20 next set of speakers, and so on. 

21 If you’ve brought your written testimony, 

22 as I’ve said, please give that to the staff, to 
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1 the court reporter before you leave today. 

2 We also have comment cards available at 

3 the registration desk, if you’d like to submit 

4 additional written comments today. If you want 

5 to comment in writing later, registration desk, 

6 if you would like to submit additional written 

7 comments today. If you want to comment in 

8 writing later, stop by the materials table near 

9 the registration desk and pick up a copy of the 

10 instructions for submitting written comments. 

11 Comments must be received by January 21, 2016. 

12 Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 

13 much consideration to comments we receive in 

14 writing as we do to comments received in public 

15 hearings like this one. So if you have more 

16 comments that you’d like to provide the EPA, 

17 please submit them by the comment period. Your 

18 comments will be reviewed. 

19 If you have any questions during the day, 

20 please see staff at the registration desk, and 

21 someone will assist you. 

22 Thank you again for taking the time today 
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1 to share your comments on EPA’s proposal. And 

2 let's get started. 

3 Let me also clarify that your written 

4 comments, if you submit them today, will be in 

5 the official docket for the proposed rule. 

6 The first people to testify are Dianna 

7 Orf and Philip Huffeldt. 

8 Please take your seats. 

9 MS. ORF: I believe that Ms. Bratten was 

10 supposed to be ahead of me. She was a last11 minute change. 

12 MS. NOONAN: Can you wait 10 minutes, and 

13 they’ll be done and then we’ll – 

14 MS. BRATTEN: Yes. 

15 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Okay. Thanks. 

16 So state your name, please, and spell it. 

17 Thank you. 

18 MS. ORF: Thank you. My name is Dianna 

19 Orf. The last name is spelled O-R-F. My 

20 comments today are on behalf of the Colorado – 

21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We can’t hear her. 

22 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We can’t hear 
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1 anything. 

2 MS. NOONAN: Let’s try that. 

3 MS. ORF: Is that better? Yes? 

4 Thank you. My name is Dianna Orf. My 

5 comments today are on behalf of the Colorado 

6 Mining Association. 

7 The proposed federal implementation plan 

8 and model trading rules are like other provisions 

9 of the Clean Power Plan, lengthy and complex. My 

10 comments today will be set forth in more detail 

11 as we conduct further review and submit them in 

12 writing. 

13 Thus far, there is the following 

14 concerns: 

15 Although the proposed FIP, like the CPP, 

16 touts its flexibility to states, that flexibility 

17 is an illusion. The emission limits per state 

18 are the same, the compliance dates are the same, 

19 and the preamble states that, quote, “The EPA 

20 strongly encourages states to consider adopting 

21 one of the model trading rules to ensure 

22 consistency between and among state programs, 
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1 useful for a broad trading program that spans 

2 multi-state regions, or operates on a national 

3 basis, scale,” end quote. What’s not an illusion 

4 is that the EPA is pushing states toward a large5 scale cap and trade program, one that has already 

6 been defeated by the U.S. Congress. 

7 The rule then goes on to state that the 

8 compelling policy reasons for providing a 

9 proposed model trading rule cites a strong 

10 interest from stakeholders to provide 

11 predictability for the state in planning. In 

12 truth, the model trading rules are 

13 extraordinarily complex and intrusive into the 

14 operations of electricity-generating utilities. 

15 This is true whether a rate-based or a mass-based 

16 approach is used. While it’s true that EPA uses 

17 trading rules for other Clean Air Act programs, 

18 the trading rule proposed for CO2 appears much 

19 more cumbersome and complex in implementation. 

20 The preamble to the rule states that it 

21 would be beneficial if a state that is interested 

22 in adopting one of the model trading rules to 
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1 indicate in its initial submittal, September 

2 2016, which of the trading rules, mass or rate, 

3 it intends to adopt. This, however, comes very 

4 close on the heels or coincides with the 

5 publication of the model training rules. Given 

6 the sweeping changes that were made in the Clean 

7 Power Plan prior to its publication in final 

8 form, a state would be ill-advised to indicate 

9 such a choice in its initial submission based on 

10 the proposed rules. Realistically, publication 

11 of the model rule in summer of 2016 does not 

12 allow adequate time for a state to make any 

13 decision about adoption. 

14 The proposed use of model trading rules 

15 as a federally-enforceable backstop similarly 

16 demonstrates the lack of flexibility in the 

17 111(d) rules, and underscores EPA’s intent to 

18 force a national approach. Unlike other Clean 

19 Air Act programs such as Regional Haze and Ozone, 

20 the states are not individually coming up with 

21 plans, but are being pushed into a cap and trade 

22 program whether through -– 
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1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Test. 

2 MS. ORF: -- whether through 

3 incorporation into their own program, or through 

4 a backstop if the state program fails to produce 

5 the mandated results. 

6 The CPP includes a reliability safety 

7 valve to allow EGUs to exceed their allowances in 

8 case of emergencies where additional generation 

9 is necessary. Even this is of dubious help, 

10 however. If coal-fired baseload plants are 

11 retired as a part of a state plan, those EGUs 

12 will not be available in an emergency, and all of 

13 the allowances in the world will not bring them 

14 back on line. 

15 The proposed federal plan does not 

16 include provisions for maintaining reliability of 

17 service. EPA reassures us that the various 

18 utility systems and their oversight organizations 

19 have extensive planning experience, and that EPA 

20 will engage with those national organizations in 

21 planning, but we are not convinced. The question 

22 is posed, should the EPA include an allowance 
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1 set-aside to make allowances available in 

2 emergency circumstances where reliability would 

3 be impacted. An allowance set-aside or other 

4 safety valve is critical. Such emergencies 

5 include a repeat of the 2014 polar vortex, or 

6 possible damage and destruction of wind and solar 

7 facilities caused by tornadoes, which are common 

8 to some regions. 

9 The rules dictate that utilities 

10 designate a representative to represent and 

11 legally bind them and the generating units in 

12 matters concerning the trading program. The 

13 rules further dictate including distribution on 

14 some distributions of allowances or revocation of 

15 ERCs which entities can be trading partners, as 

16 well as the use of tracking systems, limitations 

17 on types of resources that can count towards 

18 compliance, third-party verifications, and 

19 monitoring. Considered in total, these rules 

20 look more and more like a nationalization of the 

21 electric utility industry with the federal 

22 government so firmly in control the only thing 
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1 left for utilities to do is to pay for the 

2 facilities and listen to customer complaints over 

3 the increased costs. 

4 Thank you for the opportunity to present 

5 these comments. 

6 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

7 MR. HUFFELDT: Hi. My name’s Philip 

8 Huffeldt, and the first name is P-H-I-L-I-P, and 

9 last name H-U-F-F-E-L-D-T. 

10 First, thank you to the EPA and the Obama 

11 Administration and the President for moving 

12 forward with the Clean Power Plan. Limiting 

13 global warming pollution from power plants, the 

14 single largest source of such pollution in the 

15 United States, is a crucial step to protecting 

16 our children and our communities from the worst 

17 impacts from climate change. 

18 I’m the Director of Snowriders 

19 International, a group of skiers, boarders, and 

20 mountain recreation enthusiasts dedicated to the 

21 promotion of winter sports and the protection of 

22 the environment across the globe through service, 
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1 education, research, and advocacy. I make these 

2 statements –- 

3 (Pause.) 

4 MS. VIDETICH: Did you have these 

5 problems in the morning? 

6 (Pause.) 

7 MS. VIDETICH: Apologize. Thank you. 

8 MR. HUFFELDT: It’s okay. Thank you. 

9 I make these statements on behalf of 

10 Snowriders International, and skiers, boarders, 

11 and mountain communities across the country 

12 concerned about their way of life in the face of 

13 climate change. I appreciate this opportunity to 

14 provide comments on the draft model rule for 

15 states and the draft federal implementation plan. 

16 In the mountains we are on the front 

17 lines of climate change, seeing decreasing snow 

18 pack, shorter ski seasons, and everything from 

19 severe pine beetle outbreaks to more severe and 

20 frequent wildfires. Mountain and snow sports 

21 communities have a lot to lose in the face of 

22 climate change. 
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1 According to a report from the Natural 

2 Resource Defense Counsel and Protect Our Winters, 

3 winter sports is an over $12 billion industry in 

4 the US, and it accounts for over 200,000 jobs in 

5 38 states. Winter sports has cost the industry 

6 over $1 billion and –- excuse me. Climate change 

7 has cost the industry over $1 billion and 27,000 

8 jobs since 1999. These numbers are only going to 

9 get worse. And skier visits to ski resorts every 

10 year amount to the twenties of millions per year. 

11 The priceless mountain and snow sports 

12 way of life is simply a canary in the coal mine 

13 when it comes to climate change. We’re in danger 

14 of losing all that we love about snow sports by 

15 the end of this century, or sooner. In many 

16 places winter is already 20 days shorter, 

17 according to the IPCC, and this is only the tip 

18 of the melting iceberg. We must act on climate; 

19 and that’s why it’s imperative that we implement 

20 the Clean Power Plan as quickly as possible, and 

21 accelerate our transition to clean energy. 

22 States across the country have vast 
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1 potential to shift to clean energy. For example, 

2 America has the potential to power itself 10 

3 times over with the wind that blow both over land 

4 and off the east coast. The United States has 

5 the potential to produce more than 100 times as 

6 much electricity from solar, photovoltaic, and 

7 concentrating solar power. 

8 I crossed the nation last year. A home 

9 or business installed a solar energy system every 

10 two point five minutes. According to the latest 

11 solar jobs census from the Solar Foundation, the 

12 solar industry employed more than 173,000 last 

13 year, and remains among the most rapidly growing 

14 sectors of the US economy. 

15 Energy efficiency offers vast untapped 

16 potential to get more done while using less 

17 electricity. It is our cheapest and quickest 

18 tool to prevent global warming pollution. The 

19 American Council for Energy Efficiency Economy 

20 estimates that we could reduce overall energy use 

21 across our economy by 40 to 60 percent by 2050, 

22 even as our economy grows, by deploying better 
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1 technology in our buildings, our industry, and 

2 our homes. Investing in efficiency programs on 

3 this scale would create more than a million jobs 

4 and boost our economy on the order of hundreds of 

5 millions of dollars per year. 

6 In order to address the climate crisis, 

7 we need to accelerate our progress toward 100 

8 percent clean energy. As EPA finalizes the model 

9 rule and the federal implementation plan, we 

10 strongly encourage you to ensure that these 

11 programs encourage investment in clean energy 

12 resources such as wind, solar, and energy 

13 efficiency as much as possible. 

14 I have a few specific recommendations on 

15 the proposed model rule and the federal plan. 

16 The faster EPA can finalize the model rule the 

17 more certainty states will have as they develop 

18 their compliance plans, and the quicker they can 

19 move forward. We urge EPA to consider whether 

20 some components can be finalized shortly after 

21 the comment period closes. EPA should apply the 

22 federal plan provisions swiftly should a state 
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1 decline to adequately carry out its 

2 responsibilities. We support EPA’s proposal to 

3 issue a federal plan for any state that does not 

4 meet one of the interim state planning 

5 milestones, and urge EPA to do so within less 

6 than one year after finding that the state is not 

7 on track to submit a final state plan. EPA must 

8 ensure the affected power plants abide by 

9 enforceable limits on their emissions of global 

10 warming pollution by applying effective 

11 accountability mechanisms. 

12 Thank you again for the opportunity to 

13 speak on behalf of concerned snow sports and 

14 mountain communities. I appreciate EPA’s efforts 

15 in moving forward with this proposal, and I urge 

16 you to move forward swiftly in cleaning up our 

17 nation’s power plants for the sake of our planet 

18 and the priceless mountain way of life. 

19 Thank you. 

20 MS. VIDETECH: Thank you both. 

21 So we’re going to go to the next speaker, 

22 please. 
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1 Thank you. State your name and spell 

2 your name. Thank you. I don’t have it here. So 

3 I apologize for that. 

4 MS. BRATTEN: Good morning. I am Laurie, 

5 L-A-U-R-I-E, last name Bratten, B-R-A-T-T-E-N. 

6 I’m here today to represent Congressman Ken Buck, 

7 and, through him, the 750,000 residents of the 

8 Fourth Congressional District of Colorado in 

9 particular, and of the people of the United 

10 States in general. I say the people because the 

11 Congress is uniquely positioned in this country 

12 through our Constitution. 

13 Article One of the Constitution grants 

14 the Congress legislative and oversight authority, 

15 and, as the only directed elected body, the right 

16 to speak for the people. The American people 

17 overwhelmingly oppose this Clean Power Plan. 

18 They understand that this plan will raise 

19 electric rates, and they also understand that it 

20 won’t stop global warming. 

21 Many Coloradans are struggling in this 

22 economy, and raising electrical rates will only 
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1 make matters worse. Our office heard from an 

2 electricity provider that one of their customers 

3 who is struggling to make ends meet said that she 

4 had finally figured out how to afford her 

5 electrical bill. She would only take her 

6 medicine every other day. Think about that. 

7 The regulations proposed will only make 

8 this problem a reality for more of our citizens. 

9 Why would the EPA propose regulations that would 

10 hurt those struggling to get by? Please 

11 reconsider this. Drop these regulations, and, 

12 instead work on a plan to ensure that the 

13 nation’s second industrial revolution that 

14 America is experiencing flourishes. 

15 Thank you. 

16 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

17 Liza Browne and Mary Jo Roth, please. 

18 And on deck are Chaz Tedesco and Joe 

19 Montoya. 

20 MS. BROWNE: I apologize. I’m having 

21 kind of a bad voice day, so I’m going to keep 

22 this short and sweet for you guys. My name is 
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1 Liza Browne, L-I-Z-A B-R-O-W-N-E. 

2 Hello. My name is Liza Browne, and I’m 

3 from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Thank you for this 

4 opportunity to comment. I am an intern at the 

5 organization Snowriders International, and I’m 

6 here to speak in support of the EPA’s Clean Power 

7 Plan. 

8 For decades power plants, which are the 

9 largest source of carbon pollution, have been 

10 allowed to dump and unlimited amounts of carbon 

11 into our air. While the damage from the past 

12 cannot be undone, it’s not too late to make 

13 changes for the future. 

14 I learned how to ski in the Rocky 

15 Mountains, like most of us here. Yesterday I was 

16 talking to my nephew, Lam, and he told me what he 

17 wanted to be when he grew up. He was really 

18 excited to tell me he wanted to be a skier. 

19 While I wanted to be excited for him, I’m worried 

20 about the future of snow sports if things 

21 continue as they do. 

22 My family has a history of asthma and 
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1 respiratory illness, obviously. Just in Colorado 

2 coal-fueled power plants contribute to 53 deaths, 

3 81 heart attacks, and over 1,000 asthma attacks. 

4 Air pollution from power plants also threatens 

5 our health by causing life-threatening illnesses 

6 like childhood asthma, which costs us billions of 

7 dollars each year. My family alone has spent 

8 tens of thousands of dollars in healthcare for 

9 asthma alone. 

10 I’m begging the EPA to ensure that the 

11 carbon pollution standards in the model federal 

12 plan achieve the pollution reductions promised in 

13 the final Clean Power Plan, if not for me, for my 

14 nephew and everybody else that wants to continue 

15 to enjoy the natural beauty of the Rocky 

16 Mountains, instead of having to worry about where 

17 to keep your inhaler. 

18 Thank you. 

19 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

20 MS. ROTH: Good afternoon. My name is 

21 Mary Jo Roth, M-A-R-Y J-O R-O-T-H. I am the 

22 Manager of Environmental Services for Great River 
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1 Energy. The US Environmental Protection Agency 

2 is soliciting comments regarding its proposed 

3 federal plan and model trading rules. 

4 Great River Energy appreciates the 

5 opportunity to provide brief comments at this 

6 public hearing. We will submit more detailed 

7 written comments by the January 21, 2016 

8 deadline. 

9 Great River Energy is a not-for-profit 

10 electric generation and transmission cooperative. 

11 We are owned by our 28 member electric 

12 distribution cooperatives. Great River Energy 

13 owns and operates three coal-fired plants in 

14 North Dakota, all covered by the Clean Power 

15 Plan. Electricity from these plants serves our 

16 members, 660,000 member consumers, or about 1.7 

17 million people located largely in Minnesota. 

18 The Clean Power Plan, along with the 

19 proposed federal plan and model trading rules, 

20 which are the subject of this hearing, constitute 

21 perhaps the most far-reaching and complex 

22 environmental regulation in history, and impose 
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1 stringent goals for reduction of CO2 emissions. 

2 We expect compliance will be difficult. 

3 Compliance in a way that maintains reliability 

4 and keeps energy costs as low as possible for 

5 consumers will be even more difficult. 

6 Nevertheless, it is Great River Energy’s goal to 

7 focus on complying with the rule in a way that 

8 does not compromise reliability in any way, but 

9 that minimizes cost increases to our members and 

10 their member consumers. 

11 Great River Energy believes it is 

12 imperative that states develop and submit to EPA 

13 a compliant state implementation plan, or SIP. 

14 Great River Energy has been and will continue to 

15 work with the states in which we do business to 

16 develop a compliant SIP. We urge them to take 

17 full advantage of the flexibility provided by the 

18 Clean Power Plan, and, to that end, to consider 

19 all appropriate actions that will retain 

20 reliability and minimize economic impact to the 

21 states, the utilities, and, ultimately, 

22 electricity consumers. 
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1 Although Great River Energy expects to be 

2 covered by a state plan, we nevertheless offer 

3 the following comments on EPA’s proposed federal 

4 plan and model trading rules: Great River Energy 

5 is concerned that safeguarding reliability is not 

6 well-addressed in the proposed federal plan. EPA 

7 relies on the six-year period before reductions 

8 are required, a market-based trading program, and 

9 consideration of reliability in developing a 

10 final federal plan as the means to ensure 

11 reliability. Yet many utilities, regulators, and 

12 grid operators have expressed the need for more 

13 detailed and thorough analysis to gauge the 

14 rule’s effect on reliability. Reliability is 

15 critical to the health and well-being of all 

16 Americans. More time is necessary to evaluate 

17 and demonstrate that the proposed plan and 

18 assumptions are sufficient to safeguard 

19 reliability. 

20 Great River Energy believes that trading 

21 of emission allowances or credits is the most 

22 economically-efficient way to implement the Clean 
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1 Power Plan. Trading will ensure that the most 

2 efficient plants rise to the top and continue to 

3 provide base-load power. Therefore, we are 

4 pleased to see that EPA is developing a model 

5 rule that will ease the coordination of trading 

6 among a broad number of states. We would like to 

7 see EPA release its final trading rule as soon as 

8 possible after the close of the comment period to 

9 be of timely assistance to states as they develop 

10 their SIPs. We also support the implementation 

11 of a trading-ready federal plan in states that do 

12 not submit their own plans. 

13 Great River Energy believes that states 

14 should allocate all allowances or credits to the 

15 electric utilities with cover units in that 

16 state. Even in cases where a mass-based federal 

17 plan is imposed, decisions about allowance 

18 distribution should be reserved to the states. 

19 EPA should provide for an easy way to allow 

20 states to substitute allowance distribution in 

21 lieu of a federal approach. With respect to a 

22 rate-based federal plan, EPA should allow a 
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1 broader range of emission rate credits, or ERCs, 

2 than proposed in the model rule. For example, 

3 EPA should include ERCs for end-use energy 

4 efficiency, for combined heat and power 

5 generation at non-affected units, and for waste 

6 to energy as offsets. 

7 Although EPA proposes two sets of set8 asides to address the leakage from existing units 

9 to new units, EPA does not provide any analysis 

10 of its proposal to demonstrate its effectiveness. 

11 EPA should provide an analysis of its proposal, 

12 and open that analysis up for public comment 

13 prior to finalizing a federal plan. This issue 

14 requires better consideration and further 

15 discussion. 

16 MS. VIDETICH: Ms. Roth, Thank you for 

17 your comments. Your five minutes has expired. 

18 If you would, just please leave your testimony, 

19 if you would. Thank you very much. 

20 MS. ROTH: Thank you very much. 

21 Appreciate the opportunity to comment today. 

22 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 
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1 Mr. Tedesco and Joe Montoya, please. 

2 MR. TEDESCO: Good afternoon. My name 

3 is Chaz Tedesco, C-H-A-Z T-E-D-E-S-C-O. I want 

4 to thank you for the time to speak with you 

5 today. I serve as the Chairman of the Board. I 

6 am on the Adams County Commission just north of 

7 Denver. As a county commissioner, it is my duty 

8 to protect the health, safety, and welfare of all 

9 those who live and work in Adams County. 

10 With a population of over 480,000, Adams 

11 County ranks as among the top five largest 

12 counties in the state, and is projected to grow 

13 faster than any other county in the Denver Metro 

14 area over the next two decades. Adams County has 

15 one power plant. It’s the Cherokee Plant located 

16 in one of our poorest neighborhoods, Globeville. 

17 Until a recent conversion to natural gas, this 

18 was a coal-fired plant. The effects of such a 

19 plant so close to an urban population is 

20 immeasurable. We can see the effects in our 

21 kids, especially our minority and Latino 

22 populations, which tend to be concentrated in the 
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1 more industrial neighborhoods. The statistics 

2 for Colorado coal-fired plants estimate 53 deaths 

3 annually, 81 heart attacks annually, over 1,000 

4 asthma attacks annually at a cost of over 

5 $400,000 annually. 

6 In Adams County the effects on our 

7 climate can be felt in other neighborhoods. You 

8 only need to look back to 2012 when flooding 

9 devastated our county, along with the rest of the 

10 state at a cost exceeding $600,000 in federal 

11 disaster aid. 

12 Adams County has a 40 percent Latino 

13 population, with the majority concentrated in the 

14 southwestern portion of the county. This, 

15 coincidentally, is exactly where our lone power 

16 plant is located. 

17 I recently presented to the EPA in 

18 Washington DC on their proposal for methane gas, 

19 and was thankful the EPA would propose rules that 

20 address meaningful regulations that keep up with 

21 technology on a national platform. I also had 

22 the opportunity to present to the AQCC, the Air 
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1 Quality Control Commission, which, 

2 coincidentally, led to the toughest air 

3 regulations in the United States here in 

4 Colorado. 

5 I ask you today to please ensure that the 

6 draft model federal plan is meaningful and 

7 enforceable. Ensure the carbon pollution 

8 standards in the model federal plan achieve the 

9 pollution reductions promised in the final Clean 

10 Power Plan, or even further reductions. Ensure 

11 that states address potential carbon pollution 

12 from new power plants to achieve overall electric 

13 sector reductions in carbon pollution. Protect 

14 low-income consumers by maximizing utilities’ 

15 incentives to invest in energy efficiency, which 

16 lowers household energy bills. Ensure that the 

17 model federal plan protects and benefits our 

18 Latino, minority, low-income, and indigenous 

19 communities that have long-borne the brunt of 

20 fossil fuel pollution. 

21 I just want to give you some personal 

22 facts about why I’m here. Air is not owned by a 
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1 single individual. Everyone in this room shares 

2 air. We share air across state lines. Even 

3 though Colorado has some of the toughest 

4 regulations in the nation, we’re benefitting 

5 downwind customers, but Colorado suffers from 

6 those others in the states that don’t follow the 

7 same regulations that we do. We’re playing our 

8 part here in Colorado to be a contributor to a 

9 better air quality in the nation. We ask that 

10 the rest of the country follow suit. And with 

11 the proposal from the EPA and the plan laid out 

12 through the Clean Power Plan, we can do that. 

13 I want to thank you for your time, and 

14 your consideration today. 

15 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

16 MR. MONTOYA: Hello. My name is Joe 

17 Montoya, J-O-E M—O-N-T-O-Y-A, and I’m a co-owner 

18 of Namaste Solar and also a resident of Adams 

19 County. Namaste Solar is an employee-owned 

20 cooperative based here in Colorado. Our 

21 cooperative enthusiastically supports the Clean 

22 Power Plan. In addition to the benefits that it 
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1 will provide to the environment and public 

2 health, we also believe that it will result in 

3 more economic benefits such as more jobs and more 

4 work for clean energy companies like ours. 

5 Namaste Solar has grown from three to 130 

6 people over the last 10 years, and we’re just one 

7 out of the many hundreds of small businesses 

8 throughout the US that work in the clean energy 

9 industry. Today the US solar energy –- excuse 

10 me. Today the US solar industry employs nearly 

11 174,000 Americans. All of these clean energy 

12 businesses are creating good, well-paying careers 

13 in what will be one of the most important and 

14 fastest growing sectors of the economy for 

15 decades to come. 

16 The cost of installing a solar electric 

17 system has decreased by 60 to 70 percent in the 

18 last 10 years, primarily due to economies of 

19 scale. We believe the cost of solar can come 

20 down even further as the market continues to grow 

21 and the industry continues to mature. Keep in 

22 mind that we’re currently only getting less than 
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1 one percent of our nation’s electricity from 

2 solar. So we’ve just scratched the surface, and 

3 the potential for future growth and positive 

4 impact is tremendous and still untapped. A 

5 successful implementation of the Clean Power Plan 

6 will help make this happen. 

7 Thank you. 

8 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

9 So at this point we don’t have anyone 

10 else at this moment to testify. Is there anyone 

11 in the audience that would like to testify? 

12 Please. Please state your name, and 

13 spell it. Thank you. 

14 MR. TIETELBAUM: Noah Teitelbaum, 

15 N-O-A-H. And I wish that I had an easier last 

16 name. Here it goes. T-E-I-T-E-L-B-A-U-M. 

17 MS. VIDETICH: It isn’t any worse than 

18 mine. Believe me. 

19 MR. TEITELBAUM: Should I put this on? 

20 MS. VIDETICH: Please. 

21 MR. TEITELMAUM: All right. 

22 MS. VIDETICH: Or you can hold it. 
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1 MR. TEITELBAUM: My name is Noah 

2 Teitelbaum. I live in Denver, and I appreciate 

3 the opportunity to comment on the proposed 

4 federal implementation plan. I’m a member of the 

5 Colorado Sierra Club, but today I’m here as a 

6 father, and I’m speaking in support of the EPA’s 

7 Clean Power Plan and to comment on the recently8 proposed federal implementation plan. 

9 I’m deeply concerned about climate 

10 change, and I’m troubled by our apparent 

11 inability to stop adding more greenhouse gases to 

12 our atmosphere. The environmental, political, 

13 and public health effects of climate change are 

14 disturbing. It’s no longer possible to dismiss 

15 them as paranoid concerns of some errant group of 

16 tree-huggers. These effects are clearly 

17 realities now. 

18 An increasing number of families are 

19 being displaced due to extreme weather events. 

20 Coastal communities are struggling to deal with 

21 rising sea levels. Children are suffering from 

22 asthma at an alarming rate. I was a school 
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1 teacher for many years, and constantly had to 

2 deal with children having to leave my classroom 

3 because of asthma attacks. Our seas are growing 

4 warmer and more acidic. Will my children get to 

5 snorkel? Will they get to see coral? And here 

6 in Colorado drought and forest fire are now the 

7 norm more than ever. Furthermore, as we just 

8 heard from one of the previous speakers, every 

9 year because of coal-fired power plants in our 

10 state, we have an estimated 53 deaths, 81 heart 

11 attacks, over a thousand asthma attacks, and I 

12 believe it’s actually 400 million in healthcare 

13 costs. 

14 Now, as you well know, carbon emissions 

15 from power plants represent 40 percent of the 

16 total CO2 emissions in the United States. 

17 Aggressively regulating those emissions and 

18 creatively regulating those emissions will not 

19 only begin to address our contribution to climate 

20 change, it would curb the amount of conventional 

21 and toxic air pollutants, pollutants that we know 

22 contribute to respiratory and heart diseases. 
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1 I am in full support of the idea that 

2 each state can come up with their own plan. I 

3 understand that different states have different 

4 situations. But I’m trusting the EPA to issue a 

5 strong federal implementation plan that delivers 

6 on the promise of the Clean Power Plan. 

7 I am going to reiterate some of the ideas 

8 said by the previous speaker, but I appreciate 

9 having them on record. Number one, I would like 

10 to see that this plan ensures carbon pollution 

11 standards in the federal plan, that they achieve 

12 the same pollution reductions promised in the 

13 final Clean Power Plan, or go even further. 

14 Two, ensure that states address potential 

15 carbon pollution from new power plants to achieve 

16 overall electric sector reductions in carbon 

17 pollution. 

18 I would like to see the implementation 

19 plan protect low-income consumers by encouraging 

20 energy conservation. I would like to see the 

21 plan protect and benefit especially our minority, 

22 low-income, indigenous communities. They have 
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1 borne the brunt of our lifestyle, our fossil fuel 

2 use. 

3 And I would like to see a resistance to 

4 giveaways to some of the most polluting sources. 

5 The United States has long prided itself 

6 on serving as a global leader. We speak very 

7 loudly about human rights, sometimes some would 

8 say critically. But clearly our nation has 

9 repeatedly acted on behalf of struggling nations 

10 and communities around the world. Now’s the time 

11 for us to lead on making meaningful change on 

12 climate change. Within our country, while the 

13 hope is that states will creatively address 

14 emissions issues, it’s the federal government 

15 that must ensure the Clean Power Plan works. We 

16 create a government with the hope that some part 

17 of our society will rise above shortsightedness, 

18 and that it will serve to protect the long-term 

19 interests of everyone. 

20 I’m sure today there are those who have 

21 spoken who have counseled a moderate approach – 

22 perhaps they said we should move slowly to allow 
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1 businesses and communities to adjust. I am not a 

2 biologist. I don’t think I did very well in 

3 biology in school. But I am sure that 

4 communities can adjust faster than our 

5 environment can return to a healthy place. 

6 They’ll also likely cite economic impact. 

7 This is easily seen as shortsighted. The EPA 

8 itself has said the Clean Power Plan will save 

9 money and create jobs. There was extreme weather 

10 events in 2011, 2012, and our state spent over 

11 $600 million in federal disaster. I’m sure we 

12 could have used it for something else that would 

13 have been fun. These costs are going to rise as 

14 climate change intensifies. No doubt. In terms 

15 of jobs, the Clean Power Plan provides great 

16 opportunities for economic growth and sustainable 

17 development. The EPA estimates this plan will 

18 deliver benefits of up to $93 billion by 2030. 

19 Investing in clean energy clearly is going to 

20 create jobs and fuel economic growth. But we 

21 already know what happens if we allow power 

22 plants to continue with the status quo. 
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1 As a concerned citizen and father, I had 

2 to give my voice to this today so that I could 

3 look at them years from now and say that I at 

4 least did something. I thank you for your 

5 service, and I appreciate being heard. 

6 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you very much. 

7 Next speaker would be Travis Madsen, 

8 please. 

9 MR. MADSEN: Hi. Thank you for giving me 

10 the opportunity to speak today. My name is 

11 Travis Madsen. I am the State Climate Campaign 

12 Director at Environment America, an advocacy 

13 organization representing several hundred 

14 thousand members across the United States. 

15 First I would just like to thank all the 

16 staff at EPA, the Obama Administration, and the 

17 President for finalizing the Clean Power Plan. 

18 It’s a crucially important step forward in what’s 

19 going to be a long battle to prevent the worst 

20 impacts of global warming. 

21 Not only is it going to deliver 

22 significant progress in cleaning up the major 
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1 source of carbon pollution in the United States, 

2 but I think it’s also helping to position the 

3 United States as a leader in the world, which is 

4 crucially important as we approach the climate 

5 talks in Paris next month. 

6 I think every year it’s become 

7 increasingly apparent that global warming is 

8 happening now, and it’s affecting people across 

9 the country. This year is going to be the 

10 warmest in the recorded history of the planet, 

11 human civilization. And it looks like that trend 

12 isn’t going to stop any time soon. So we have to 

13 take action to reduce the pollution that’s 

14 causing global warming. 

15 States across the country have vast 

16 resources that they can deploy to move towards 

17 and achieve an electricity system, energy system 

18 that does not produce global warming pollution. 

19 We have enough solar energy resources in this 

20 country to meet our energy needs hundreds of 

21 times over. Wind energy, similarly, could power 

22 the country multiple times over. And there’s a 
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1 vast untapped potential for energy efficiency to 

2 ensure that we’re getting more done with less 

3 energy. 

4 So the key challenge facing us now is how 

5 to accelerate that transition towards a 100 

6 percent clean energy future. And as EPA 

7 finalizes the proposed model rules and the 

8 federal implementation plan, I’d encourage you to 

9 look towards what steps you can take to 

10 accelerate this process to get the most possible 

11 reductions in carbon pollution on the shortest 

12 timeline. 

13 I have general recommendations on that 

14 front. First, since quick action is so 

15 important, I encourage the EPA to look for 

16 opportunities to finalize elements of this plan 

17 on an expedited timeline. The more certainty 

18 that states have and the more certainty that 

19 power generation companies have about how all the 

20 pieces fit together, the quicker they can start 

21 implementing business plans that move away from 

22 polluting fossil fuels. 
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1 Second, I think that it’s important that 

2 EPA be ready to step in any time a state declines 

3 to either develop a plan to reduce pollution from 

4 power plants, or indicates that they’re not going 

5 to meet their responsibilities or any of the 

6 benchmarks laid out in the rule. I think EPA 

7 should indicate that it’s going to step in and 

8 actually do so within a year of any state failing 

9 to meet a benchmark. 

10 Third, I think it’s crucially important 

11 that EPA have clear and effective enforcement 

12 provisions in place so that states, and, in 

13 particular, the power industry companies know 

14 that the federal government is serious about 

15 delivering the results promised in the standards 

16 finalized. 

17 So to wrap up, thank you again for the 

18 opportunity to speak. I appreciate all of the 

19 hard work you’re putting into this, and I look 

20 forward to helping you move forward. 

21 MS. VIDETICH: We have Kent Abernethy and 

22 Stuart Sandersen. 
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1 And in the hall we have Matthew Strand 

2 and Deborah Schaneman. 

3 Please state your name, and spell your 

4 name, please, for the court reporter. 

5 Thank you. 

6 MR. ABERNETHY: Kent Abernethy. 

7 MS. VIDETICH: Microphone. Microphone, 

8 please. There you go. Thank you. 

9 MR. ABERNETHY: Kent Abernethy, 

10 A-B-E-R-N-E-T-H-Y, Sierra Club. 

11 MS. VIDETICH: Please. 

12 MR. ABERNETHY: Here in Colorado we have 

13 an attorney general who claims to be doing the 

14 people’s work and acting on behalf of the people 

15 of Colorado in joining in a multi-state lawsuit 

16 challenging the new federal Clean Power Plan 

17 targeting plant emissions. Well, that’s much to 

18 the dismay of Governor Hickenlooper, and it’s 

19 much to the dismay of the citizens of this state 

20 who overwhelmingly support and vote in the 

21 interest of clean air and water. 

22 As a Colorado native, I know how much it 
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1 is a privilege to live and Colorado. 

2 Fortunately, most of the people who have come 

3 here to live also appreciate the quality of life 

4 our Colorado environment offers. Colorado is 

5 home to the second-healthiest residents in the 

6 country, second only to Hawaii. These rules help 

7 us to maintain the health of our environment and 

8 our own individual health. 

9 Efforts to thwart the Clean Power Plan 

10 are backward thinking and dangerous to our state. 

11 We already are feeling the impact of climate 

12 change in the form of extreme weather, resulting 

13 in devastating floods, and changes in how and 

14 when and where we receive our precipitation, as 

15 well as devastating forest fires resulting in 

16 over $600 million in federal disaster aid. 

17 New jobs are created in working towards 

18 lowering our carbon emissions, something we must 

19 do. I want Colorado to be a leader, and strongly 

20 support the Clean Power Plan. 

21 Thank you. 

22 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Could you 
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1 provide the microphone for Mr. Sandersen? It’s a 

2 bit of a tag team here. 

3 Thank you. 

4 MR. SANDERSEN: Can you hear me? 

5 MS. VIDETICH: Yes, I can. 

6 MR. SANDERSEN: Thank you. My name is 

7 Stuart Sandersen. I am the President of the 

8 Colorado Mining Association, an organization 

9 founded in 1876, whose 1,000 plus members 

10 represent, among others, the producers of coal, 

11 minerals throughout the West, as well as a 

12 community of people, vendors, service providers, 

13 equipment manufacturers, and others whose 

14 livelihoods depend upon responsible resource 

15 development and affordable energy. 

16 I too came to Colorado for the lifestyle, 

17 and I think it’s ironic we have a very healthy 

18 lifestyle in Colorado and one where the bulk of 

19 our electricity is derived from the use of coal. 

20 It is affordable. It is reliable. And it is by 

21 far the most abundant source of electricity 

22 available today. 
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1 Our concern about the EPA regulations and 

2 the implementation plan that is being developed 

3 is that they suffer from the same flawed 

4 assumptions and failure of analysis as the 

5 original Clean Power Plan regulations. These 

6 rules are the most expansive in the entire 

7 history of the Clean Air Act. And rather than 

8 setting an emission standard based upon what 

9 available technology could achieve at individual 

10 power plants, the EPA has constructed a 

11 hypothetical electrical grid that would yield the 

12 level of carbon dioxide reduction the 

13 administration wants. In so doing, it’s adopted 

14 unreasonable assumptions about the growth of 

15 renewable energy in the future. 

16 In addition to these flawed estimates and 

17 assumptions, the EPA intends to finalize this 

18 plan just weeks after the states are required to 

19 submit their own compliance plans for the Clean 

20 Power Plan. We don’t think that makes any sense. 

21 More time should be allowed. 

22 While Colorado retail electricity 
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1 consumers have enjoyed rates at or below the 

2 national average, that has been changing since 

3 2008 when the mandates for higher-cost energy and 

4 more intermittent sources kicked in. The average 

5 retail price that Colorado consumers pay today 

6 for electricity has increased by more than 20 

7 percent since that period of time due almost 

8 entirely to the enactment of legislation or the 

9 adoption of regulations establishing and then 

10 tripling mandates for renewable energy 

11 generation, together with legislation shutting 

12 down power plants or converting them to higher13 cost sources of energy like natural gas. As a 

14 result, coal production has fallen. With that, 

15 the revenues and the royalties that support the 

16 public school system in the State of Colorado. 

17 And to what end? 

18 There’s no reasonable end to this 

19 process, because these regulations that have been 

20 developed will not reduce global temperatures by 

21 hardly one iota. In fact, Colorado isn’t even 

22 getting credit for the actions that is has taken 
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1 to date to convert to these higher-cost energy 

2 sources. There’s more pain to come. 

3 Two studies in particular show that 

4 Colorado consumers and citizens will pay even 

5 more in future years. The first, recently 

6 published by Energy Ventures Analysis, and cited 

7 by the National Mining Association, shows 

8 wholesale rate increases of more than 19 percent. 

9 The second by Fitch, a ratings agency, shows that 

10 the ratings of the utilities could be threatened, 

11 unless these costs are passed along to the 

12 consumers. This study, called the Carbon Effect 

13 2.0, should raise concerns in an even more 

14 compelling fashion because of the independent 

15 nature of the analysis. 

16 EPA needs to reconsider these ill-advised 

17 climate regulations. Colorado, according to the 

18 Fitch report, will be among the hardest-hit 

19 states in terms of having to impose costs on 

20 consumers. 

21 We need to commend Cynthia Coffman, the 

22 Attorney General of Colorado, for filing this 
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1 lawsuit and standing up for the rule of law in 

2 Colorado. Given EPA’s past track record on the 

3 Mercury Air and Toxics regulations and others, it 

4 is highly likely that the courts will revise this 

5 statute, this regulation. For that reason, we 

6 believe the EPA should stay the implementation of 

7 the Clean Power Plan regulations, and give the 

8 states additional time to submit comments on the 

9 FIP before they are required to submit initial 

10 plans for compliance. 

11 This concludes the statement of the 

12 Colorado Mining Association. I would submit 

13 copies of this statement for the record, but also 

14 I have a letter from the Citizens of the North 

15 Fork, dozens and dozens of people who were not 

16 able to be here today, expressing concern about 

17 the impact on their community, a community where 

18 500 jobs have been lost just in the last few 

19 years alone, most of that attributable to these 

20 mandates. 

21 Thank you for your time and attention. I 

22 would like to have permission to submit these. 
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1 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you, Mr. Sandersen. 

2 Once again we’ve not got any speakers 

3 registered for this time period. Is there anyone 

4 in the audience that would like to speak? 

5 Please. You will have five minutes. 

6 State your name, and spell it for the court 

7 reporter, please. 

8 Thank you. 

9 MR. HUNTER: Good afternoon. My name is 

10 Gerald Hunter. That’s G-E-R-A-L-D Hunter. And I 

11 am the Manager of Environmental Policy and 

12 Innovations of Salt River Project Agricultural 

13 Improvement and Power District. SRP is a 

14 political subdivision of the State of Arizona 

15 that provides retail electric services to over 1 

16 million residential, commercial, industrial, and 

17 mining customers in Arizona. SRP serves these 

18 customers with a diverse portfolio of owned and 

19 purchased electricity resources that includes 

20 coal, natural gas, hydroelectric, nuclear, solar, 

21 wind, biomass, and geothermal generation. 

22 In my brief comments today, I would like 
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1 to encourage the EPA to continue to embrace all 

2 of the flexibility afforded by the provisions of 

3 section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act, and I have 

4 two specific recommendations for the proposed 

5 final federal plan. 

6 Specifically, SRP believes that EPA 

7 should adopt both rate and mass-based options for 

8 the federal plan. SRP also believes that EPA 

9 should include mechanisms to permit trading 

10 between rate and mass plans. As EPA notes in the 

11 current proposal, states may simply choose to 

12 accept a federal plan for the sources, rather 

13 than undertake the development of a plan of their 

14 own by not submitting a state plan. If EPA does 

15 not finalize both plan approaches to the federal 

16 plan, it limits the utility of this option for 

17 the states. 

18 While SRP thinks that it is vastly 

19 preferable for states to craft their plans to 

20 comply with the final emission guidelines, we can 

21 envision scenarios where, due to certain factors 

22 such as lack of resources or time constraints, 
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1 that states may not be able to draft final 111(d) 

2 compliance plans by EPA’s September 6, 2018 

3 deadline. In such instances where EPA or a state 

4 decides to implement a federal plan, it is still 

5 important to recognize that each state has unique 

6 circumstances. A one-size-fits-all approach to a 

7 federal plan may not be in the best interest of 

8 the states, or the overarching need to preserve a 

9 stable, reliable, and cost-effective energy 

10 supply for US electric customers. 

11 Preserving the option to pursue either a 

12 rate-based or mass-based federal plan offers a 

13 path that would reduce the destruction associated 

14 with imposition of a federal plan, as EPA can 

15 better match a plan option to each state’s 

16 current and ending emissions reduction 

17 strategies, as well as each state’s economic 

18 forecast. 

19 An important complement to finalizing 

20 both the rate and mass federal plan is to allow 

21 trading between rate and mass-based plans, which 

22 will enhance the ability of the Clean Power Plan, 
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1 or CPP, to achieve its stated goals. The EPA has 

2 stated in the proposed plan that the agency was 

3 unable to develop an approach to accommodate this 

4 type of plan trading. But SRP feels strongly 

5 that such trading is possible. 

6 Trading between rate and mass-based plans 

7 can produce a more robust overall trading market, 

8 and can be particularly advantageous to entities 

9 like SRP, which have emission-generating units, 

10 or UGUs, in multiple states. SRP has ownership 

11 of EGUs in Arizona, Colorado, and on the Navajo 

12 Nation. Allowing broad trading between rate and 

13 mass plans provides states and tribal entities 

14 more flexibility to structure compliance plans 

15 better tailored to their own needs, and reduce 

16 adverse impacts. 

17 One potentially simple path to trading 

18 between rate and mass-based states is to allow 

19 EGUs in mass-based states to sell allowances to 

20 EGUs in rate-based states. These allowances 

21 would then be used to reduce the emissions in the 

22 numerator of the rate calculation. This ensures 
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1 a clear one-for-one reduction in carbon 

2 emissions, and both states can easily demonstrate 

3 compliance. No unique or complicated efforts are 

4 required to track or enable this type of transfer 

5 since both rate and mass-based states must have 

6 EPA-approved accounting systems for measuring and 

7 tracking carbon emissions. 

8 In reverse direction, EPA already 

9 proposed to permit the sale of renewable energy 

10 from a rate-based state to a mass-based state. 

11 While this is not technically an allowance trade, 

12 the renewable energy when delivered would replace 

13 a portion of EGU output, and, therefore, reduce 

14 carbon emissions in the mass-based state. 

15 SRP plans to provide more detailed 

16 written comments on these and other possible 

17 methods to enable trading between rate and mass18 based plans, as well as comments on other aspects 

19 of the proposed federal plan. I would like to 

20 close my remarks by reaffirming SRP’s support for 

21 each state to craft its own 111(d) compliance 

22 plan. 
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1 But in the event a federal plan approach 

2 is needed, it is best for EPA to finalize both 

3 rate-based and mass-based options, and allow for 

4 trading between rate-based and mass-based plans. 

5 Such an approach can address local circumstances, 

6 significantly mitigate the economic impacts of 

7 this regulation, and ensure and effective 

8 implementation of the goals envisioned in the 

9 Clean Power Plan. 

10 Thank you. 

11 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. I would just 

12 ask that when you all submit your comments I’m 

13 particularly interested in how you would do the 

14 conversion or the trading between rate and mass. 

15 And if you could give us some examples of how 

16 that would work, actually go through a problem, 

17 that would be very helpful. 

18 Thank you. 

19 Now I need to apologize to Mr. Strand and 

20 Ms. Schaneman. Would you please come forward and 

21 provide your testimony? I lost your card here in 

22 the middle of everything that’s up here. I’m 
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1 sorry. 

2 Is Deborah Schaneman here, please? 

3 Thank you. 

4 MR. STRAND: Am I first? 

5 MS. VIDETICH: Sure. 

6 MR. STRAND: Okay. My name is Mark 

7 Strand, and I’m an Associate Professor of 

8 Biostatistics. 

9 MS. VIDETICH: Can you spell your name, 

10 please? 

11 MR. STRAND: M-A-T-T-H-E-W, Strand, 

12 S-T-R-A-N-D. 

13 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

14 MR. STRAND: I’m an Associate Professor 

15 of Biostatistics. I work in-house at National 

16 Jewish Health, and I have an affiliated 

17 appointment at the University of Colorado Denver 

18 in the Department of Biostatistics. 

19 First off, I’d just like to say Colorado 

20 has been given the opportunity to support the 

21 Clean Power Plan with a goal to reduce carbon 

22 emissions by about 30 percent within the next 15 
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1 years, and I hope our state commits to adopting 

2 this plan. 

3 Personally, I have performed analyses as 

4 a part of my job to study relationships between 

5 air pollution and health. Results of these 

6 analyses published in journals in recent years 

7 have shown relationships between particulate 

8 matter and acute health effects on children with 

9 asthma in Denver. A stronger move towards clean 

10 power would not only help clean our air for more 

11 vulnerable populations, but it would create a 

12 healthier environment for all of us. 

13 However, my interest in clean power goes 

14 well beyond short-term health effects of air 

15 pollution. I believe that plans to reduce 

16 greenhouse gases is of great urgency, given the 

17 scientific research that has shown strong 

18 evidence that human-created greenhouse gases are 

19 altering our climate, with greater effects likely 

20 in the future, if we don’t take immediate 

21 measures. 

22 Reducing greenhouse gas emissions should 
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1 be a global effort. But that effort needs to 

2 start somewhere. Adopting the plan at the state 

3 level gives us the perfect opportunity to take 

4 action. Along with other states that are already 

5 behind the plan, we can start changes that will 

6 likely have a domino effect, not only within the 

7 US, but around the world. 

8 By taking action, we can slow the 

9 increase of greenhouse gases that affect our 

10 climate, and reduce the risk of higher 

11 temperatures, drought, and other extreme weather 

12 events. The action we take is a matter of 

13 degree. The more action we take now, the more we 

14 will be able to reduce climate change from human 

15 sources. In addition, with such action, we will 

16 accelerate the growth of cleaner, more 

17 technologically-advanced sources of energy. The 

18 cost of making changes now could be relatively 

19 minimal compared to the costs we pay later if we 

20 ignore it. 

21 Although climate change may lead to 

22 consequences at the global level, in our state we 
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1 could also see consequences. This is a partial 

2 list: sustained drought, increased wildfires, 

3 and other extreme weather events, reduced snow, 

4 impact on the ski industry, as well as impact on 

5 our economy in general. 

6 By reducing carbon emissions over the 

7 coming years, not only will we reduce greenhouse 

8 gases, we will also decrease local air pollution 

9 that has more immediate, acute effects on health 

10 of the people in our state. By ignoring the 

11 opportunities to make changes, we could be facing 

12 greater, even catastrophic consequences later. I 

13 would like to take action now for the sake of my 

14 children, and my children’s children. 

15 In summary, I’d like to reiterate my 

16 strong support for the State of Colorado to take 

17 initiative and get behind the Clean Power Plan. 

18 We can start to make a difference now for 

19 Colorado and the world. 

20 Thank you. 

21 MS. SCHANEMAN: My name is Deborah 

22 Schaneman, D-E-B-O-R-A-H S-C-H-A-N-E-M-A-N. I’m 
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1 the Environmental Services and Compliance 

2 Director for Platte River Power Authority in Fort 

3 Collins, Colorado. Thank you for the opportunity 

4 to comment on the important issue of carbon 

5 emissions. 

6 Platte River Power Authority is a 

7 political subdivision of the State of Colorado. 

8 Platte River was formed in 1975 by the 

9 municipalities of Estes Park, Fort Collins, 

10 Longmont, and Loveland. Their singular purpose, 

11 providing wholesale power and transmission 

12 service to these communities. Like the municipal 

13 utilities it serves, Platte River is a non-profit 

14 municipal utility. 

15 Through a joint action, the four member 

16 communities hoped to take advantage of economies 

17 of scale associated with larger generation units. 

18 Our fundamental resource decisions were made in 

19 the late 1970s and this resulted in a resource 

20 portfolio that was and is heavily reliant on 

21 coal. 

22 In 2013 the Platte River Board of 
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1 Directors adopted a strategic plan to analyze 

2 diversification of our resource portfolio. Among 

3 the reasons for diversification was the desire to 

4 reduce carbon emissions. The strategic planning 

5 process is ongoing, and subsequent to the release 

6 of the Clean Power Plan rule, our board refined 

7 our resource strategy by instructing staff to 

8 employ an adaptive strategy to cost-effectively 

9 maintain reliability, manage risk, and ensure 

10 regulatory compliance, a key component of which 

11 is compliance with the Clean Power Plan. 

12 Although I’ve been immersed in this issue 

13 since June 2, 2014, as have numerous other staff 

14 members of Platte River, as an organization 

15 Platte River is still analyzing this complex set 

16 of rules. Platte River intends to be fully 

17 engaged in the rulemaking process, and plans to 

18 file detailed written comments at a later date. 

19 Platte River does not anticipate that 

20 Colorado will default to a federal plan 

21 implemented by the EPA. But because the EPA is 

22 strongly encouraging states to consider adopting 
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1 one of the presumptively approvable model trading 

2 rules at issue at the present hearings, it’s 

3 important that these rules are reasonable and 

4 workable. 

5 In the time allotted today, I will focus 

6 on our main concerns with the federal plan 

7 requirements and model trading rules. 

8 First, Platte River has serious concerns 

9 about the treatment of allocations to generation 

10 units that are retired as a compliance strategy. 

11 If left unchanged, the rules will penalize 

12 utilities that are undertaking bona fide yet 

13 prudent efforts at compliance through 

14 modification of their resource portfolios. 

15 As a starting point, we agree that 

16 providing allocations to retired units for a 

17 period of time will incentivize early unit 

18 retirement, and, consequently, is a good policy. 

19 However, the proposed federal plan does not 

20 provide a sufficient post-retirement allocation 

21 period, nor does it provide allocations to 

22 retirement shutdowns prior to 2019. 
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1 Platte River recommends that the EPA 

2 distribute allowances to the non-operating unit 

3 owner or owners for the longer of the next 

4 compliance period, or the remaining useful life 

5 of the unit. Units that would otherwise be 

6 retired due to age and inefficiency would receive 

7 limited allocations, but owners that engage in 

8 early retirements to achieve compliance 

9 obligations would receive allocations for a 

10 period of time corresponding with the useful life 

11 of the unit. 

12 Second, Platte River is concerned with 

13 proposals to distribute allowances to parties 

14 that do not have direct compliance 

15 responsibilities. We recommend that allowances 

16 be allocated only to affected unit owners, and 

17 not to entities without compliance obligations 

18 under the rules. Allowances are instrumental to 

19 compliance and should be reserved for those 

20 entities with compliance obligations. The Clean 

21 Power Plan is ambitious, and compliance is likely 

22 to be costly. Distribution of allowances to 
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1 entities who are not responsible for compliance 

2 will likely create an opportunity for 

3 speculation, thus unnecessarily increasing the 

4 costs of compliance. 

5 Third, in the context of rate-based 

6 systems, there should be recognition that the 

7 holder of a power purchase agreement with a 

8 renewable generation source is entitled to the 

9 emission rate credits. This issue is common with 

10 public power systems that are tax exempt. Simply 

11 put, because the public power systems are tax 

12 exempt, they typically don’t own renewable 

13 generation, but rather enter into long-term power 

14 supply agreements with an entity that can take 

15 advantage of the tax incentives. These long-term 

16 purchase agreements support the development of 

17 the renewable resource, and the party purchasing 

18 the output should receive the ERCs. 

19 In summary, carbon emissions are a 

20 significant issue. It is reasonable to expect 

21 utilities to assist in meeting the challenge 

22 involved in curbing emissions. To ensure the 
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1 smoothest possible implementation, the final rule 

2 must be fair and subject to effective, but 

3 flexible implementation by the states. It’s 

4 important to ensure that the final rule avoids 

5 implementation pitfalls that fail to recognize 

6 the practical realities of resource portfolio 

7 management and reliable utility operation. 

8 Thank you again for the opportunity to 

9 comment. 

10 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

11 MR. SWANSON: Could you spell Platte for 

12 me, please? 

13 MS. SCHANEMAN: P-L-A-T-T-E. 

14 MR. SWANSON: Thank you. 

15 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

16 Next up will be Kara Cook and Russell 

17 Bassett, followed by Alec Sprague, please. 

18 If you would, please state you name, 

19 spell your name, and you each have five minutes. 

20 Thank you. 

21 MS. COOK: My name is Kara Cook, K-A-R-A 

22 C-O-O-K. The reason that –- thank you so much 
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1 for having me here today. 

2 MS. VIDETICH: Can you use your 

3 microphone? 

4 Thank you. 

5 MS. COOK: Thank you so much for having 

6 me here today. The reason that I am actually 

7 here is because starting from when I was a very 

8 small child growing up on a ranch I cared deeply 

9 about the environment. It was something that I 

10 could share with my whole family. You know, we’d 

11 go outside together, see the beautiful landscape, 

12 have healthy food that we could eat straight off 

13 the farm, and in general it was a great way to 

14 grow up. And so I wanted everyone in the world 

15 to have that kind of experience. 

16 When I graduated from college, I went to 

17 China to teach English, and it was a fantastic 

18 experience for me because I was able to meet not 

19 only the people in China, but I was also able to 

20 experience the horrible pollution problems in 

21 China, the horrible coal plant problems in China, 

22 and see how people lived in a society and an 
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1 environment where things weren’t as clean as how 

2 I grew up. And I was also able to see that 

3 people in other countries were just as concerned 

4 about these issues as we were, and they wanted to 

5 know what we were going to do about it. 

6 And so I was really excited when I heard 

7 about the Clean Power Plan because I knew we’re 

8 going to do something about it, we’re going to 

9 make a huge change, we’re going to make an impact 

10 and be a leader in the world. And that’s why I 

11 was really excited also to move to Colorado. I 

12 knew that Colorado – from researching, I knew 

13 that Colorado was a leader in things like solar 

14 energy and in clean power. I wanted to live 

15 here. I wanted to have that same environment for 

16 my kids someday that I grew up with. 

17 And I think it’s amazing what Governor 

18 Hickenlooper and what the CDPHE has done here in 

19 Colorado as far as pushing forward a plan for the 

20 Clean Power Plan. And I want to make sure the 

21 EPA supports their plans for pushing for clean 

22 energy in Colorado. As part of that, I really 
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1 think that the EPA should provide model 

2 regulatory frameworks for states so that states 

3 can move forward quickly with implementing the 

4 Clean Power Plan. 

5 I also think that it’s important that 

6 Colorado have access to the Clean Energy 

7 Incentive Program, which would unlock a lot of 

8 powerful tools that could be accessible by 

9 utility companies here in Colorado, by local 

10 governments, and by low-income communities, and 

11 energy providers. 

12 And I think that if we do those things 

13 that we’ll be able to see the kind of future that 

14 I experienced in the past, and that will make me, 

15 you know, continue to be proud to live here in 

16 Colorado and to be an American. 

17 So thank you so much for having me here 

18 today. 

19 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

20 MR. BASSETT: Hello. My name’s Russell 

21 Bassett. If you think there might be a double 

22 consonant, there is. 
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1 MS. VIDETICH: And if you’d spell it, 

2 that would help. 

3 MR. BASSETT: R-U-S-S-E-L-L 

4 B-A-S-S-E-T-T. I live in Westminster, Colorado. 

5 I’ve been working in conservation, specifically 

6 fish conservation for 10 years, and I came about 

7 it because I love to fish. That’s been a passion 

8 of mine since I can remember, and it’s just 

9 something that every weekend I’m up in the 

10 mountains, whether it’s fly fishing, or gear 

11 fishing, and right now it’s about to switch into 

12 ice fishing. That’s just kind of who I am. 

13 And my work involves giving back to that, 

14 what gives me so much enjoyment, and so much 

15 pleasure. I also spend a lot of time 

16 volunteering with veterans to get them out there 

17 and have them have that same experience and have 

18 a coping mechanism for dealing with the stressors 

19 of coming back into civilian life after being in 

20 a war zone. 

21 But I want to thank you so much for 

22 finalizing the carbon pollution limits through 
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1 the Clean Power Plan. You provided much needed 

2 standards for limiting carbon pollution. And I’m 

3 really proud to live in a state that’s not -– 

4 well, minus our attorney general – is already 

5 kind of on the steps of what needs to be done to 

6 be where we need to be to meet these 

7 requirements. And I’m glad to be in a state 

8 that’s that way. 

9 I encourage you to finalize the 

10 implementation as soon as you can to get this 

11 process over with. And then I also strongly 

12 encourage you to enforce these rules. I work in 

13 a lot of Clean Water Act situations, and I know 

14 you get sued a lot for not enforcing Clean Water 

15 Act rules in a lot of different states. I’ve 

16 been involved in some of those suits. And so I 

17 would just hope that that doesn’t happen in this 

18 case, that you’re enforcing from the get go, and 

19 not having to have environmental groups come in 

20 and sue you to enforce these rules that you’ve 

21 created. So I would encourage you to strongly 

22 enforce those rules. 
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1 I actually came here to talk to you about 

2 the pine bark beetle. When I’m up in the 

3 mountains –- about half our forests here in 

4 Colorado are literally dead, and it’s really 

5 disheartening to me and worrisome that this is 

6 going on. And when I talk to folks about it, 

7 they’re just kind of, “Well, you know, here in 

8 Colorado” –- it’s not really –- to me it’s an 

9 epidemic that’s on not just here in Colorado, but 

10 on a national scale. Sure we’ve had flare-ups of 

11 pine beetles before, but this is 10 times larger 

12 than we’ve ever seen. And everything I have read 

13 about it is it’s due to climate change. Three 

14 main reasons: One, the flight time –- the 

15 springs are warmer, so the flight time during 

16 their life history, these beetles have more time 

17 to find trees. The winters aren’t cold enough. 

18 It needs to be like negative 30 degrees to kill 

19 them off. And, three, the trees are not strong 

20 enough because of drought and dry conditions, 

21 their natural defense mechanisms, which are 

22 pretty neat, to kill off these pine beetles. So 
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1 it’s kind of this perfect storm that’s created 

2 really an epidemic in the western United States. 

3 And we seem to be here in Colorado on the tail 

4 end of that. Like the peak of the mountain pine 

5 beetle was ‘08, ‘09, and now it’s gotten less. 

6 But in terms of -- not just Colorado, but on the 

7 10 western states where this beetle has become an 

8 epidemic and two Canadian provinces, it’s now 

9 able to survive in higher elevations, farther 

10 north. It’s now moving into pine tree species 

11 that didn’t used to have pine bark beetle. And 

12 as if that wasn’t enough, we now have the spruce 

13 beetle, which is attacking our spruce and fir, 

14 and we now have about half a million acres of 

15 infested spruce and fir trees, and that’s on top 

16 of the million acres already dead, and that’s 

17 just here in the state, from the pine beetle. 

18 And it’s not just tree-hugging trout 

19 kissers like me that should care about this. 

20 This affects floods. You know, if you don’t have 

21 the trees in place to contain the soil, you’ve 

22 got flooding issues. There’s wildfire issues. 
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1 You know, you’ve got downed power lines. This is 

2 just something that a lot of people should care 

3 about, not just folks like me that really, really 

4 care about fish. It certainly does affect 

5 humans. 

6 Well, I think I pretty much said 

7 everything I was going to read. So just, in 

8 closing, I would like to thank you once again for 

9 the Clean Power Plan, and please finalize these 

10 implementation rules as soon as possible. Then I 

11 respectfully encourage you to enforce these rules 

12 once they’re in place. 

13 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

14 Mr. Sprague, correct? 

15 MR. SPRAGUE: Correct. 

16 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Please restate 

17 your name. You’ve got five minutes. And, if you 

18 would, spell it for the court reporter. 

19 Thank you. 

20 MR. SPRAGUE: Absolutely. Alec Sprague 

21 is A-L-E-C S-P-R-A-G-U-E. 

22 All right. I work and live here in 
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1 Denver. I’m also an Environment Colorado 

2 supporter, which is a citizen group here in 

3 Colorado. First, thank you so much for the time 

4 to speak, and thank you, EPA, for taking action 

5 to finalize the cleaner standards for carbon 

6 pollution limits. This is something I’ve been 

7 passionate about for a very long time. 

8 A few years ago I got an opportunity to 

9 work as a community organizer in Cincinnati, 

10 Ohio, and I met hundreds of people and spoke with 

11 hundreds of people that were affected by air 

12 pollution in Cincinnati. A woman whose baby had 

13 asthma, and an entire family who had respiratory 

14 problems lived near one of these plants. A lot 

15 of these people didn’t, you know, probably 

16 consider themselves to be environmentalists, but 

17 they knew that something needed to be done. 

18 You don’t need to live next to a coal19 fired power plant to feel the effects of, you 

20 know, carbon fuel, global warming, and extreme 

21 weather. A couple of years ago I was in Chicago, 

22 and it was extreme weather, and wind chills of 
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1 negative thirties, negative forties. I grew up 

2 in Chicago, and the city never shuts down. The 

3 city shut down that day. Unfortunately, I was 

4 sick and had to see a doctor, so I had to go out 

5 in it. We’ve seen it here in Colorado too with 

6 shorter ski seasons, wildfires. We’ve seen it 

7 all over the country. 

8 Colorado here has been a leader in 

9 reducing emissions through policies that have 

10 spurred economic growth. So I want to thank you 

11 for giving states flexibility to come up with 

12 their own plans here. 

13 I also want to urge you to give 

14 incentives to states to create those plans to 

15 increase renewables, to increase energy 

16 efficiency, and to implement them quickly. 

17 Thank you so much. 

18 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

19 So once again we’ve come to a point where 

20 we don’t have any speakers lined up. Is there 

21 anyone in the audience that would like to speak 

22 right now? 
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1 MR. KOLDENSCHLAG: Thank you. I was 

2 signed up for tomorrow, but I’ll just go ahead 

3 and speak, if that’s all right. 

4 MS. VIDETICH: Sure. Would you let the 

5 folks know when you’re done today that you’re 

6 speaking today, and they’ll take you off 

7 tomorrow’s list. 

8 MR. KOLDENSCHLAG: Out front or –- 

9 MS. VIDETICH: Yes, at the registration 

10 desk. Thank you. So state your name, please. 

11 Spell it for the court reporter, and you have 

12 five minutes. 

13 Thank you. 

14 MR. KOLDENSCHLAG: Thank you. I will 

15 have to send in written comments. I was going to 

16 write them up tonight, but I’m going off on a 

17 tear. 

18 Pete Koldenschlag, and the last name is 

19 spelled K-O-L-D-E-N-S-C-H-L-A-G. 

20 MS. VIDETICH: You win the prize. 

21 MR. KOLDENSCHLAG: It’s my dad’s fault. 

22 Thank you very much for this opportunity. 
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1 I work as a consultant in western Colorado. I’m 

2 doing quite a bit of work on climate change 

3 issues. I wanted to talk quickly about where I 

4 come from, the North Fork of Colorado. For 100 

5 years it has been a coal-dependent community. 

6 It’s also a big agricultural community. 

7 We have lost a lot of mining jobs there 

8 in the last year. Despite some earlier 

9 testimony, 350 of those miners from the Oxbow 

10 mine were let go because of a thermal event, a 

11 mine fire. About 200 miners have been let go 

12 from Bowie. A portion of those were from a 

13 cancelled TVA contract. So it certainly didn’t 

14 have anything to do with RES standards put in 

15 place in Colorado. It may have had something to 

16 do with some national policies the TVA was 

17 responding to. The last 80 or so miners that 

18 were laid off from Bowie were laid off because 

19 Bowie did not get a longwall moved in time. So 

20 as an almost 20-year resident of the North Fork, 

21 I am very concerned about my community and 

22 keeping jobs there and workers there. 
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1 But there’s a lot going on in energy 

2 markets globally right now. So to pretend that 

3 what we see in the North Fork is happening 

4 because of our nation, our president, and really 

5 global response to the climate crisis is just not 

6 accurate on the ground in the North Fork. I just 

7 wanted to clear that up. 

8 Solar Energy International is also 

9 located in the North Fork. They’re a leading 

10 trainer of installations for solar projects all 

11 around the world. They do a lot of work with the 

12 Department of Defense training returning vets. 

13 They work a lot in Latin America, and in 

14 developing countries, as well as in developed 

15 countries. 

16 Where I live I am a member of an 

17 electrical cooperative, the Delta-Montrose 

18 Electrical Association. We are very excited as 

19 co-op members, and our co-op is very excited 

20 about the opportunities that the Clean Power Plan 

21 presents to us. We have tremendous micro-hydro 

22 potential there. There is a project you may be 
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1 familiar with that kind of led to the whole 

2 challenge to -– the DMEA challenged the 

3 requirement that we limit the amount of 

4 electricity we produce locally because of our 

5 contract with Tri-State. We challenged that with 

6 the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, FERC. 

7 The DMEA won, meaning we can start buying more 

8 power locally from qualifying facilities. That’s 

9 very exciting for our cooperative because we have 

10 tremendous micro-hydro potential, tremendous 

11 solar potential. We have those. 

12 Coal mines that are emitting methane now 

13 and are going to continue to emit methane for 

14 decades and decades, we don’t need to mine the 

15 coal, but we can capture that methane and recycle 

16 that energy, and diminish the contribution it’s 

17 making to climate change by converting it to 

18 power. It’s still a carbon fuel, but it’s better 

19 than just emitting it, and we now have that 

20 opportunity. 

21 And so there’s tremendous excitement in 

22 my valley among board members of DMEA and lots of 
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1 rate-payers for what we see is the way forward 

2 because we can look at global markets and -- 

3 despite the fear-mongering, and some things that 

4 we hear from the coal industry, we can look at 

5 global markets and see what’s happening to coal 

6 all around the world. We’re interested in moving 

7 into our future, and not trying to hang onto a 

8 past that doesn’t exist anymore. 

9 But today I’m really speaking on behalf 

10 of an entity called the Colorado Farm and Food 

11 Alliance. It is kind of an ad hoc alliance of 

12 about 15 farm and food organizations, over 50 

13 farms, ranches, food producers, breweries, 

14 wineries, and people involved in the farm-to15 table economy and movement here in Colorado. We 

16 work on resource issues. The idea is to connect 

17 farm-to-plate advocacy with resource issues. 

18 We’re very concerned about the impacts to 

19 agriculture from climate change in western 

20 Colorado. That would be drought. The gentleman 

21 that spoke before about pine beetles and dry 

22 forests not only becoming more susceptible to 
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1 pests, they burn, and that’s whether they’re 

2 alive or dead. When forests dry out they burn. 

3 So we’re concerned about wildfire. We’re 

4 concerned about drought, and we’re concerned 

5 about the impacts of erratic weather because we 

6 live in, like I said, an agricultural region. 

7 We’re known worldwide certainly in Colorado for 

8 our awesome fruit, organic and otherwise. Of 

9 course, fruit is very susceptible. If you have a 

10 warm winter, early bloom. We live at 6,000 feet. 

11 It always freezes in May. It doesn’t matter how 

12 warm the winter is. We lose our fruit when that 

13 happens. It’s a big issue for people in my 

14 valley. 

15 And I want to thank the EPA and the Obama 

16 Administration for taking this on. It’s huge. 

17 I’m proud of Colorado’s leadership on the issue. 

18 The federal government needs to make sure that 

19 the federal implementation plan is also strong 

20 and that it incentivizes communities like my own 

21 to move towards a better future because we’re 

22 ready for it on the ground. We really are. So 
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1 thank you. 

2 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

3 MR. KOLDENSCHLAG: And I’ll send in some 

4 written comments. 

5 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

6 Is there anyone else that would like to 

7 comment at this time? 

8 As we have no speakers on the docket at 

9 the moment, we will take a 10-minute break and 

10 resume at quarter to three. 

11 Thank you. 

12 (Whereupon, at 2:35 p.m., a brief recess 

13 was taken, to reconvene at 2:50 p.m.) 

14 MS. VIDETICH: So I’m going to reconvene 

15 this public hearing on the federal plan and model 

16 rules for the Clean Power Plan. We have one 

17 speaker that is lined up right now, Sean Work, if 

18 Sean could come forward. 

19 Just for those of you in the audience to 

20 know, we have a whole host of folks that are 

21 signed up to speak today, and they are not 

22 showing up. So we may be taking a lot of breaks 
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1 as we go, but we certainly want to accommodate 

2 the speakers that are here. 

3 So, Mr. Work, if you would, please come 

4 forward. Please state your name, spell your name 

5 for the court reporter, and you’ll have five 

6 minutes. 

7 MR. WORK: Should I sit over here or -– 

8 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Please use the 

9 microphone. 

10 MR. WORK: Hello. My name is Sean Work. 

11 That’s S-E-A-N W-O-R-K. 

12 First I want to thank you for this 

13 opportunity to speak. I’ll tell you a little bit 

14 about myself. I’m a student at the University of 

15 Northern Colorado, and I’ve been living in 

16 Greeley for six years now. During that time I’ve 

17 seen Greeley, or Weld County in general become a 

18 center of the fossil fuel industry, namely, 

19 hydraulic fracking. 

20 A lot of people, you know, tout hydraulic 

21 fracking as sort of the clean alternative to 

22 traditional fossil fuels because it burns a lot 
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1 cleaner. But I’m here to, you know, point out 

2 that that’s not really the truth, and show 

3 support for renewable energy, and solar, and wind 

4 energy. So I just want to say that, you know, 

5 hydraulic fracking causes a lot of problems in 

6 terms of the chemicals used. 

7 In Colorado in 2013 there were almost 500 

8 chemical spills from hydraulic fracking, and it’s 

9 just not a -– it’s more than one per day, and 

10 many of those spills actually go unreported. So 

11 there’s even more than that. Also additionally, 

12 you know, there were explosions, multiple 

13 explosions caused by and related to the fracking 

14 industry in the past year. And it really –- you 

15 know, a lot of people want to use the natural gas 

16 produced by hydraulic fracking to kind of offset 

17 our current fossil fuel system, especially, like, 

18 coal power because it burns a lot cleaner, but 

19 the chemicals used in it are just too polluting 

20 and -– sorry. I’m really nervous. I just –- I 

21 just don’t think that –- what people want to use 

22 fracking for is kind of like the transition fuel, 
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1 and it’s really not viable. 

2 It would make much more sense to just 

3 switch to renewable energies, and that’s why I 

4 think the Clean Power Plan is such a good 

5 initiative, because if we can use the solar and 

6 wind energy that’s inherent in the Colorado 

7 environment -- I mean Colorado is the fourth 

8 highest state in potential solar energy, and we 

9 could generate up to 300,000 megawatts through 

10 wind energy. So Colorado is in a unique position 

11 to have massive potential for renewable energies. 

12 Weld County, where I live is, you know, 

13 currently focused on fracking, and they’re 

14 currently initiating –- you know, it’s become the 

15 number one source for fossil fuels in Colorado, 

16 and possibly the nation. And I just think that 

17 with the Clean Power Plan we could see a new 

18 initiative to bring those renewable energies, 

19 especially those in Weld County. But in the 

20 winter it’s definitely got a lot of wind. And 

21 there’s just so much potential for wind and solar 

22 energy in our state, and it just doesn’t make 
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1 sense to be using any or developing any sort of 

2 infrastructure besides those two. Not to mention 

3 those natural gas deposits are temporary and are 

4 going to disappear eventually, so it’s only a 

5 temporary measure. Weld County is experiencing a 

6 massive economic boom right now from the fracking 

7 industry, but that’s going to go away once those 

8 wells are built and tapped out. It’s just – all 

9 that infrastructure is going to be useless, and 

10 all those people who are currently, you know, 

11 living in Weld County and experiencing the 

12 benefit of those jobs, they’re going to be 

13 jobless. 

14 I think that it’s important to state that 

15 renewable energy has lasting infrastructure that 

16 will need to be maintained and taken care of, so 

17 permanent jobs are an advantage there over the 

18 natural gas industry. And I just really believe 

19 that renewable energy is the far favorable 

20 alternative to the fracking industry, which is 

21 currently what seems to be the direction that at 

22 least Weld County wants to take. So I think with 
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1 the Clean Power Plan we might see some initiative 

2 from the officials in Weld County and other 

3 districts of Colorado to switch to more plausible 

4 and sustainable alternatives. 

5 That’s really all I had to say. Thank 

6 you very much for this opportunity again. 

7 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

8 Okay. For those of you here and that 

9 have been here for the last hour, is there 

10 anybody here who wants to speak now? Otherwise, 

11 we’re going to probably do these breaks in 15-

12 minute increments. 

13 So we’re going to take a break now, 

14 reconvene at quarter after three. If someone’s 

15 here, we’ll take their testimony and just kind of 

16 do this piecemeal thing as we need to. Thank 

17 you. 

18 (Whereupon, at 2:57 p.m., a brief recess 

19 was taken, to reconvene at 3:17 p.m.) 

20 MS. VIDETICH: Okay. So we are going to 

21 resume the public hearing on the proposed federal 

22 plan and model rules for the Clean Power Plan. 
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1 We have three speakers set to speak. 

2 First would be Bryce Carter, and Patti Briones. 

3 Bryce and Patti -– 

4 Is Patti here? 

5 Hi, Patti. 

6 Please come up front. If you two would 

7 please say your name, spell your name. You’ll 

8 both have five minutes to testify. 

9 And then Karen Kalavity will be the next 

10 up after these two speakers. 

11 Thank you. 

12 MR. SWANSON: Also please use the 

13 microphone. 

14 MS. VIDETICH: The one that’s – 

15 There we go. Okay. 

16 MR. CARTER: Good afternoon. My name is 

17 Bryce Carter, B-R-Y-C-E, last name C-A-R-T-E-R. 

18 Good afternoon on this lovely weather19 filled day. Again, my name is Bryce Carter, and 

20 I live here in Denver, Colorado. Thank you for 

21 this opportunity to provide testimony. I am a 

22 staff member of the Sierra Club, and also a 
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1 concerned citizen speaking out in support of the 

2 EPA’s Clean Power Plan and proposed federal 

3 implementation plan. 

4 The Clean Power Plan is historic and will 

5 be praised many generations down the line for its 

6 safeguards to protect our air, water, climate, 

7 and the health of our communities. The 

8 flexibility allows for states to implement the 

9 plan, ensures ways of accounting for local needs 

10 while meeting the standards. The successful 

11 implementation of the plan will lead to 

12 significant climate and public health benefits, 

13 preventing about 250,000 asthma attacks, and 

14 6,600 premature deaths annually. 

15 Here in Colorado we’ve seen dramatic 

16 drought, fires, flooding in just the past several 

17 years alone, amounting to loss of lives and many 

18 billions of dollars in property damage and 

19 emergency response costs. I have spoken to some 

20 of those emergency response managers in impacted 

21 communities and learned that the disproportionate 

22 impacts on communities of color and the low-
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1 income communities are enduring. As one example, 

2 a trailer park with a low-income Latino 

3 population was destroyed in the 2013 floods, and 

4 officials were unable to track the majority of 

5 the population of mostly immigrants thereafter to 

6 assess what support they would need. In Lyons 

7 low-income housing was destroyed, and they’ve had 

8 difficulty reallocating affordable housing units 

9 outside of the floodplain. A vote failed in the 

10 aftermath to support such housing, in part 

11 because those who lost their homes were no longer 

12 able to register to vote and claim residency 

13 after they lost their homes. Elsewhere, two 

14 fires in Colorado Springs alone, the Waldo Canyon 

15 and the Black Forest in 2012 and 2013 

16 respectively, burned down a collective 832 homes 

17 and killed four people. 

18 We are on the front lines of climate 

19 destruction in the Centennial State, seeing the 

20 extremes of which occur at an increasing pace, 

21 impacting all of our communities. The issue of 

22 climate change and dealing with carbon pollution 
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1 is gravely serious, and we must collectively work 

2 on solving these issues. The Clean Power Plan 

3 takes us in the right direction to do just that. 

4 For states unable or unwilling to 

5 implement this plan, it is necessary to enforce a 

6 federal implementation plan that is as strong as 

7 any state-approved plan. To do so, the EPA must 

8 do a few things. 

9 One, we should ensure the carbon 

10 pollution standards in the model federal plan 

11 achieve the pollution reductions promised by the 

12 final Clean Power Plan, if not provide further 

13 reductions. 

14 Two, we should ensure that states address 

15 potential carbon pollution from new power plants 

16 to achieve overall electric sector reductions in 

17 carbon pollution. 

18 Three, protect low-income consumers by 

19 maximizing utilities’ incentives to invest in 

20 energy efficiency, which lowers household energy 

21 bills. 

22 Four, ensure that the model federal plan 
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1 protects and benefits minority, low-income, and 

2 indigenous communities that have long-borne the 

3 brunt of fossil fuel pollution, and may be most 

4 likely to experience impacts of climate change as 

5 we’ve seen here. 

6 And number five, resist giveaways of 

7 allowances to the most polluting sources. 

8 The Clean Power Plan will clean up our 

9 air and address climate disruption, modernize how 

10 we power our country and economy, and spur 

11 diverse innovation, and create thousands of jobs 

12 with billions in investment. I’ve seen firsthand 

13 the benefits of this transition from the smart 

14 grid technologies present in Fort Collins Zero 

15 Energy District to ever-increasing gains in wind 

16 power, which recently fully powered half the 

17 state, to rooftop solar, which keeps money within 

18 the local community. 

19 I’m personally excited for the solutions 

20 to come, but we must have strong action plans 

21 implemented across this country to charge 

22 forward. Please ensure the federal 
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1 implementation plan fully supports the momentum 

2 and leadership of the Clean Power Plan. 

3 Thank you. 

4 MS. VIDETICH: Mr. Carter, can I ask you 

5 a question -- 

6 MR. CARTER: Yes. 

7 MS. VIDETICH: -- before we move on? 

8 Thank you. You talked about the federal 

9 plan protecting low-income communities. Do you 

10 feel like it goes far enough now, or would you or 

11 the Sierra Club be providing us more comments on 

12 what more we could do that’s not in the plan? 

13 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: At the Sierra Club 

14 we’re working with lawyers to submit very long, 

15 in-depth comments. 

16 MS. VIDETICH: Okay. 

17 MR. CARTER: Yes. So there will be – 

18 MS. VIDETICH: so more comments. Okay. 

19 Thank you. If you can give us any particular 

20 ideas about what that might be, that would be 

21 helpful. 

22 MR. CARTER: Absolutely. 
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1 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

2 Thank you for waiting. 

3 MS. BRIONES: Bryce and I are not 

4 actually together, but I certainly support 

5 everything he said. He’s a very hard act to 

6 follow, because I belong to the Sierra Club and I 

7 belong to 350.org, but I do not know all the 

8 particulars that he just very eloquently 

9 expressed. 

10 I am here as a retired teacher, a mother, 

11 and a grandmother to speak for my family and my 

12 students and children that I know. 

13 MS. VIDETICH: Excuse me. Could you 

14 please remind us your name, and spell your name 

15 for the court reporter? 

16 MS. BRIONES: I’m sorry. Yes. 

17 MS. VIDETICH: No, no. Thank you. 

18 MS. BRIONES: Patti, P-A-T-T-I Briones, 

19 B-R-I-O-N-E-S. 

20 A couple of things that Bryce mentioned 

21 stood out for me. One is the floods in Lyons. I 

22 had just come to Colorado from California when 
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1 that rainstorm hit and the floods hit. I 

2 remember people that I know that used to come 

3 down to Denver for activities suddenly weren’t 

4 coming anymore, and they just –- the roads were 

5 impassable. It was a terrible thing for the 

6 people of Lyons and other areas. 

7 Also he mentioned indigenous people, and 

8 I’m very concerned. I think it is a tremendous 

9 injustice that Native Americans who knew so well 

10 how to take care of the Earth have had their 

11 land -– and they didn’t consider it their land. 

12 They didn’t have the idea of land ownership -- 

13 but the land that they used, so land taken away 

14 from them and for them to be restricted to 

15 certain areas called reservations. I’ve been in 

16 contact recently with some Native American people 

17 from the Four Winds organization in Denver, and 

18 they also are quite concerned, of course, about 

19 what is happening to our environment. 

20 And we are speaking, I understand, to the 

21 Environmental Protection Agency, so I know that 

22 you take that very seriously, your obligation to 
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1 protect the environment. We can’t debate anymore 

2 about the science. I think the science is, I 

3 think, like 99 percent on the side of yes, there 

4 is global warming, and, yes, people have a whole 

5 lot to do with it. 

6 I expect, and I greatly encourage my 

7 government as represented by the Environmental 

8 Protection Agency to do all that they can to 

9 support a transition from fossil fuels to 

10 renewable energy sources. I think that is the 

11 only thing that is going to save us from 

12 fantastically horrible environmental disasters. 

13 And if we can, by preventing those kinds of 

14 disasters, we will also prevent the expense of 

15 cleaning them up. 

16 Katrina, Sandy, the unbelievable expense 

17 monetarily, that’s secondary. It’s really the 

18 people that have suffered in those scariest –- 

19 from the destruction from those storms. We’re 

20 going to have more and more extreme weather 

21 events if we don’t do something about global 

22 warming. 
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1 I think it has to do with transitioning 

2 from fossil fuels to renewable energy sources. 

3 And that’s what I expect my government to do. 

4 And you, as representatives of the government and 

5 of me, my representatives, that’s what I want you 

6 to do. 

7 Thank you very much. 

8 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 

9 Karen Kalavity? 

10 MS. KALAVITY: Hello. My name is Karen 

11 Kalavity. 

12 MS. VIDETICH: Please use the microphone. 

13 Spell and say your last name. Thank you. 

14 MS. KALAVITY: My name is Karen Kalavity, 

15 K-A-R-E-N. Kalavity is K-A-L-A-V-I-T-Y. 

16 I have spoken here before about coal and 

17 carbon pollution. I am also a member of the 

18 Sierra Club, and actually thought this was 

19 directed more towards wildlife and the protection 

20 of wildlife, and so that’s how I’ve written up my 

21 little narrative here. I’m calling it Coal and 

22 Wildlife. 
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1 Coal extraction and burning adversely 

2 affects wildlife just as it adversely affects 

3 humans. As an example, just recently I, with two 

4 other friends, made a trip to Las Vegas, which no 

5 one’s going to consider that an environmental 

6 trip, but still we covered a lot of ground there. 

7 We took a side trip and toured the Hoover Dam and 

8 saw the large turbines and other structures that 

9 bring light and power to the Strip. Las Vegas is 

10 mostly powered by hydroelectric, which has its 

11 own shortcomings, and, of course, wildlife has 

12 been affected along that stretch of the Colorado 

13 River, as well as many tributaries that have been 

14 drained throughout the area to bring Lake Mead to 

15 its current level, which, by the way, is the 

16 lowest level it has ever been since the 

17 construction of the dam. This relates to coal 

18 because burning coal requires quite a bit of 

19 water as well. It’s not just the extraction of 

20 coal. The process itself uses a lot of water, 

21 and we’re in a situation where we cannot afford 

22 to be using water in that way, as well as even in 
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1 the so-called renewable way of hydroelectric is 

2 getting to be a little questionable. 

3 In any event, on the way home from Vegas, 

4 we went through Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon, 

5 and some other stretches of beautiful scenery in 

6 Utah. We saw deer, squirrels, ravens and other 

7 wildlife flourishing in the national parks. This 

8 is in stark contrast to some of the other areas. 

9 Of course animals in national parks know 

10 they will not be shot and killed. It is 

11 different outside the parks, and the wildlife 

12 behaves differently in the parks as compared to 

13 outside the parks. They actually will come 

14 within a few feet of people in areas they know 

15 they will not be killed. 

16 Along the way home to Denver, we came 

17 upon the Grand Staircase Escalante National 

18 Monument. My friend remarked that this area had 

19 been spared from coal mining in the process of 

20 being designated a national monument. Thank God. 

21 It was beautiful. The thought of a large coal 

22 mine at this location was really depressing. I 
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1 was grateful to know that this beautiful area 

2 could not be mined because of its designation as 

3 a national monument. 

4 This all comes back to wildlife, coal, 

5 and us. Not only does coal burning foul the air, 

6 which affects all of us, but it also entails the 

7 disturbance and destruction of large natural and 

8 pristine areas. 

9 We must start using our renewable –- we 

10 must focus our attention on resources that are 

11 renewable such as wind, and especially rooftop 

12 solar. 

13 Again, when you go to Las Vegas and you 

14 see all the surface area of those buildings, and 

15 instead of using energy from hydroelectric, they 

16 could be generating solar energy with all that 

17 surface area. Much of our existing and proposed 

18 architecture has enough vertical and horizontal 

19 surface area to support large areas of solar 

20 collection exactly where we need it, in the urban 

21 areas. We need to start creating elegant, 

22 sophisticated, and energy-efficient architecture 
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1 where we need it. With the new battery storage 

2 available, this is entirely doable. 

3 Please focus on renewables, and keep 

4 energy production away from our wildlife and 

5 natural areas. 

6 MS. VIDETICH: So my dear friends in the 

7 audience, we’ve come to another place where we 

8 have, I don’t think, anyone else that wants to 

9 talk at this moment. Am I correct? 

10 So we will take another 15-minute break, 

11 and see if anyone shows up within that 15 

12 minutes. 

13 (Whereupon, at 3:32 p.m., a brief recess 

14 was taken, to reconvene at 3:48 p.m.) 

15 MS. VIDETICH: Okay. So we’re going to 

16 reconvene the public hearing on the proposed 

17 federal plan and model rules for the Clean Power 

18 Plan for existing power plants. 

19 We have one speaker. Becky English is 

20 slated to speak. At this point in time, I don’t 

21 think we have anyone else ready to speak. So 

22 after Ms. English has completed her testimony, 
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1 we’ll take another break. That will get us to 

2 about 4:05, and we’ll convene again at 4:05. 

3 Ms. English, thanks for being here. If 

4 you would, please state your name, spell your 

5 name for the court reporter, and you’ll have five 

6 minutes to testify. 

7 MS. ENGLISH: All right. Are you sure I 

8 can’t take 35 minutes? 

9 MS. VIDETICH: No. We’re keeping 

10 everybody to five, even though we have some extra 

11 time, but in order to be fair for everyone. 

12 Thank you. 

13 MS. ENGLISH: Good afternoon, and thank 

14 you EPA representatives for holding a hearing 

15 here in Denver. My name is Becky English, and I 

16 live here in Denver, Colorado. Thank you for 

17 this opportunity to offer comments. I’m 

18 currently the Chair of the Executive Committee 

19 for Sierra Club’s Rocky Mountain Chapter, 

20 covering the State of Colorado. 

21 Sierra Club has more than 60,000 members 

22 and supporters in Colorado, and we’re just very 
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1 pleased that you’ve issued the Clean Power Plan 

2 and its outlines, and we’re delighted that you 

3 chose Denver as the site of this hearing. 

4 Here are a few thoughts on the 

5 implementation of the Clean Power Plan. We’re 

6 very happy the EPA has issued the plan as a 

7 framework within which each state has 

8 considerable flexibility to achieve the 

9 standards. I am a clean energy issues specialist 

10 for our chapter, and I work to help people 

11 understand how critically important it is that we 

12 make the necessary transition out of fossil fuels 

13 to clean, renewable energy, energy efficiency, 

14 and demand response with all haste. 

15 In my observation of human nature over 

16 the years, it’s very clear to me that people are 

17 able to execute changes in business as usual much 

18 more readily when they have some say in designing 

19 a new program, so I think this framework approach 

20 is just great. So thank you for developing the 

21 Clean Power Plan with that flexibility. 

22 Here in Colorado our utilities needed 
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1 this new framework in order to change some 

2 extremely dysfunctional patterns of the past. 

3 That dysfunctionality has been the prevalent 

4 condition with our investor-owned utilities, our 

5 power market wholesalers, most of our municipal 

6 utilities, and most of our electric co-ops. 

7 Little by little through grassroots and 

8 rate-payer activism, we’ve made some incremental 

9 progress here in Colorado into decarbonizing the 

10 electric sector, but it has not been easy, and we 

11 still have a lot of room for more success. Let 

12 me put it that way. 

13 A few years back I was part of an effort 

14 to get a bill through the Colorado legislature to 

15 study the economic benefits of a feed-in tariff. 

16 The utilities, rather than embrace the potential 

17 economic and carbon-reduction benefits of a feed18 in tariff, dispatched the bill with a 

19 particularly heavy-handed lobbying effort. So 

20 I’m very pleased to see that your technical 

21 guidance includes encouragement of local 

22 distributed generation of clean renewable energy. 
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1 I think you’re probably well-aware that 

2 Colorado voters enacted the nation’s first ballot 

3 initiative introducing a state renewable energy 

4 standard back in 2004. And under the leadership 

5 of Governor Bill Ritter, we were able to pass 57 

6 clean energy bills into statute in Colorado in 

7 just four years. I point this out in order to 

8 encourage you to add the input of citizens in 

9 state compliance plans if your guidance doesn’t 

10 already do so. I’ve only been able to peruse the 

11 guidance superficially. As you know, very often 

12 people understand things before their leaders do. 

13 I’m here today to make several specific 

14 requests. First, I’d like you to issue a federal 

15 implantation plan that swiftly and confidently –- 

16 issue a federal implementation plan to those 

17 states if a state refuses to comply or cannot 

18 comply. Don’t be shy. Don’t be slow. Just go 

19 for it. 

20 Secondly, I want you to stick with the 

21 standards enumerated in the model federal plan, 

22 and assure that they, indeed, achieve the 
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1 reductions forecast in the Clean Power Plan. In 

2 other words, if there’s any –- go for the 

3 results, as opposed to the method for getting 

4 there. 

5 Third, please make sure that emissions 

6 from all new power plants achieve overall 

7 electric sector reductions in carbon pollution 

8 that you’ve enumerated. I’m sure that goes 

9 without saying, because of course this is about 

10 existing plants, but you would be surprised. 

11 Right here in Colorado the Comanche Three Power 

12 Plant, in spite of all of its warts, that plant 

13 was approved just not that long ago. We really 

14 need to make sure that any new plants achieve the 

15 standards. 

16 Fourth, we need to protect low-income 

17 customers from the worst abuses of our utilities. 

18 Some of the highest utility rates in the West are 

19 forced on some of the people least able to pay 

20 them. In addition, these utilities, which are 

21 big fans of coal-fired power production by the 

22 way, charge sky-high reconnection rates after 
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1 they’ve heartlessly cut off these customers. 

2 Instead these utilities ought to be investing in 

3 energy efficiency and demand response programs 

4 that benefit their customers by lowering their 

5 bills. I hope your draft model federal plan will 

6 incentivize such programming. 

7 Fifth, the draft model federal plan 

8 should also protect and benefit minority, low9 income, and indigenous communities that have had 

10 to breathe the foul fossil fuel air of the 

11 industrial age too long. These same communities 

12 are often the most likely communities to 

13 experience the impacts of climate change. 

14 Sixth, finally, for heaven’s sake, don’t 

15 let the model federal plan to continue giveaway 

16 allowances to fossil fuel interests and their 

17 minions, the utilities. It is time for all such 

18 giveaways, sweetheart deals, and corrupt clusters 

19 of contamination creation to cease and desist 

20 forever. 

21 In closing, I want to note that I’m 

22 ashamed of Colorado’s Attorney General Cynthia 
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1 Coffman for joining a lawsuit challenging the 

2 authority of the EPA to issue the Clean Power 

3 Plan. It mortifies me that our state –- 

4 MS. VIDETICH: Ms. English, if you could, 

5 please tie up. 

6 MS. ENGLISH: -- on a clean energy 

7 economy has joined that lawsuit. And I see no 

8 reason why any state shouldn’t be able to meet 

9 your guidelines. 

10 Thank you very much. 

11 MS. VIDETICH: Thank you very much. 

12 MR. SWANSON: If you could provide that 

13 to our court reporter, she’d really appreciate 

14 it. 

15 MS. VIDETICH: Yes. Would you mind? 

16 Thank you. 

17 So it is 3:55. I do not have any other 

18 speakers lined up at the moment, so we will take 

19 a break until 10 minutes after four. 

20 Thank you. 

21 (Whereupon, at 3:55 p.m., a brief recess 

22 was taken, to reconvene at 4:12 p.m.) 
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1 MS. VIDETICH: So for those of you that 

2 are in the audience, we are on a break from the 

3 public hearing for the proposed federal plan and 

4 model rules for the clean power plan for existing 

5 power plants. We’re going to continue to stay in 

6 a break. There’s no one else that’s shown up 

7 since our last break. We’re going to take a half 

8 an hour break, and then, as most of you might 

9 know, we’re going to actually break then at 5:00 

10 and reconvene at six. So hopefully we’ll have 

11 one or two more folks come in between now and 

12 then. And, if not, we’ll make a decision at 

13 quarter to five. 

14 So thank you all for your patience, and 

15 we’ll get back to you in a half an hour. 

16 (Whereupon, at 4:12 p.m., a brief recess 

17 was taken, to reconvene at 4:50 p.m.) 

18 MS. VIDETICH: So it’s 4:50. We are 

19 reopening the public hearing on the proposed 

20 federal plan and model rules for the Clean Power 

21 Plan for existing power sources. We have one 

22 speaker at this point. It’s Mr. Jerry Mullins. 
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1 Mr. Mullins, if you would, please state 

2 and spell your name for the court reporter, and 

3 then you have five minutes to give your 

4 testimony. 

5 Thank you. 

6 MR. MULLINS: My name is Jerry Mullins. 

7 The spelling on that is J-E-R-R-Y M-U-L-L-I-N-S. 

8 I just wanted to offer some thoughts and comments 

9 with concern to the Clean Power Plan, as well as 

10 the overall FIP procedure. I just want to make 

11 clear the real technical and legal concerns that 

12 so many people have with the Clean Power Plan is 

13 development, and the reality of empowering EPA to 

14 have jurisdiction over states and how those 

15 states are able to generate and push electricity 

16 in an affordable way out to its residents. 

17 I think the Clean Power Plan really 

18 doesn’t take into account a lot of the serious 

19 technical challenges that the states already go 

20 through in their efforts to provide affordable 

21 electricity. And I think that while we all are 

22 for a greater development of renewable energy and 
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1 renewable fuels, the reality of the need for 

2 baseload generation is really the key to opening 

3 up those renewable doors. And I think that 

4 unless that is more seriously addressed and 

5 compensations are made for that need, the Clean 

6 Power Plan, if implemented as one interprets it 

7 today, I think will pose real economic and, 

8 potentially, reliability harms across the 

9 country. 

10 You know, this administration has really 

11 shown a very callous rulemaking attitude towards 

12 the states. And I think when you take into 

13 account all that the states have been responsible 

14 for in the past and all the successes they 

15 generate, especially when you look at certain 

16 states like Colorado and their ability to develop 

17 renewable fuels and renewable electricity 

18 sources, this just seems to be kind of an 

19 overreaching rule that’s going to cause a lot of 

20 problems for the fixed-income residents of states 

21 who are going to have to suffer through increased 

22 energy prices. 
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1 I also wanted to comment on the FIP 

2 itself, and the timing of it, and how difficult 

3 it’ll be for states as they’re developing their 

4 state plans. If the model FIP isn’t really 

5 developed until the summer of 2016, that doesn’t 

6 give states very much time to compare what the 

7 model FIP is versus what the SIPs they’re trying 

8 to develop are going to be. And I think that 

9 timing is going to be a real problem for the 

10 regulators as they move forward with the most 

11 responsible development of a state implementation 

12 plan that they develop. 

13 Just, once again, the economic harm and 

14 damage and potential -- while I know the 

15 administrator has gone out of her way to say that 

16 the EPA is going to take into account economic 

17 ramifications in the rule development, I think it 

18 is irresponsible and frightening what that could 

19 mean not only for, you know, the people who are 

20 already having challenges, meaning electricity 

21 pricing, but the job creators who come to 

22 different states because of the affordability of 
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1 electricity. When that benefit starts to be 

2 challenged because of, you know, bureaucracy and 

3 policy, that economic damage will be real, and 

4 it’ll result in loss of jobs and more pain for 

5 the states. 

6 Thank you. 

7 MR. SWANSON: Thank you, sir. 

8 MS. VIDEVICH: Thank you. 

9 So rather than closing this public 

10 hearing, we’re just going to go into a soft mode 

11 of being quiet. If anyone comes in, we’ll go 

12 ahead and let them testify. Otherwise, the 

13 hearing will close for this afternoon’s session 

14 at 5:00. 

15 (Pause.) 

16 So being that we have no more speakers 

17 for this part of the afternoon session in the 

18 public hearing for the Clean Power Plan, we’re 

19 going to close this particular part of the 

20 hearing. We will reconvene at 6:00. 

21 So be careful out there. It’s still just 

22 wet. But thank you for coming this afternoon. 
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1 (Whereupon, at 4:53 p.m., a dinner recess 

2 was taken, to reconvene at 6:08 p.m.) 

3 

4 

5 

6 

7 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 
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1 EVENING SESSION 

2 6:08 p.m. 

3 MS. NOONAN: Good evening. My name is 

4 Jenny Noonan, and I am the chair of today’s 

5 public hearing. Thank you for coming today. 

6 Joining me on the panel are Cate Hight and Nick 

7 Swanson. 

8 I’m going to read a brief summary of what 

9 we are here to talk about today, and some 

10 housekeeping items on how things will proceed 

11 this evening. 

12 Fossil fuel-fired power plants are 

13 the largest source of US carbon dioxide 

14 emissions, or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 

15 percent of US total greenhouse gas emissions. 

16 Reducing carbon pollution from power plants is an 

17 essential step in lessening the impacts of 

18 climate change, and providing a more certain 

19 future for our environment, our health, and 

20 future generations. 

21 We are here this evening to listen to 

22 your comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan 
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1 and model rules to implement the Clean Power Plan 

2 for existing power plants. 

3 On October 23, 2015 the US Environmental 

4 Protection Agency published in the Federal 

5 Register its proposed federal plan to implement 

6 emission guidelines for power plants under 

7 section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. EPA's 

8 111(d) rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 

9 effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 

10 affected power plants that began construction on 

11 or before January 8, 2014. 

12 The federal plan and model trading rules 

13 demonstrate a readily-available path forward for 

14 the Clean Power Plan implementation and present 

15 flexible, affordable implementation options for 

16 states. 

17 The model rules provide a cost-effective 

18 pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 

19 the EPA, and make it easier for states and power 

20 plants to use emission trading. It does the 

21 heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 

22 model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 
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1 implement the federal plan in any state that does 

2 not submit an approvable plan. 

3 This proposal includes four discrete 

4 proposed actions: One, a rate-based federal plan 

5 for each state with an affected electric 

6 generating unit, or EGU; two, a mass-based 

7 federal plan for each state with an affected EGU; 

8 three, a rate-based model trading rule for 

9 potential use by any state; and, four, a mass10 based model trading rule for potential use by any 

11 state. 

12 The proposed federal plans will achieve 

13 the same level of emission performance as 

14 required of state plans under the Clean Power 

15 Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 

16 those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 

17 determines have failed to submit an approvable 

18 l11(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 

19 in the emission guidelines. 

20 In those states where a federal plan may 

21 be required, a final federal plan will implement 

22 the same emission guidelines for affected power 
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1 plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 

2 would not require additional control 

3 requirements, or impose additional costs. 

4 Even where a federal plan is put in place 

5 for a particular state, that state will still be 

6 able to submit a plan, which, if approved, will 

7 allow the state and its sources to exit the 

8 federal plan. 

9 States may take delegation of 

10 administrative aspects of the federal plan in 

11 order to become the primary implementers, or 

12 submit partial state plans in order to take over 

13 the implementation of a portion of the federal 

14 plan. 

15 States operating under a federal plan may 

16 adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 

17 to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 

18 benefit of power generators and consumers. 

19 The proposal also includes a model rule 

20 for those states that are developing their own 

21 state plans. 

22 EPA intends to finalize both the rate-
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1 based and mass-based model trading rules in the 

2 summer 2016. A state program that adheres to the 

3 model trading rule provisions specified in this 

4 rulemaking, when final, would be presumptively 

5 approvable. 

6 There are stand-alone portions of the 

7 model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 

8 measurement, and verification procedures for 

9 emission rate credits, ERCs, that would be 

10 approvable even if a state adopted an approach 

11 that differs in other respects from the model 

12 rule. 

13 In addition, the proposal contains a 

14 finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 

15 implement a section 111(d) federal plan for the 

16 affected electric generating units located in 

17 Indian country. The C02 emission performance 

18 rates for these facilities were finalized in the 

19 Clean Power Plan. I 

20 Information on how the EPA will reach out 

21 to communities throughout the comment period; and 

22 an overview of the actions that EPA is taking to 
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1 ensure that vulnerable communities are not being 

2 disproportionately impacted by this rulemaking is 

3 also included in this proposal. 

4 If you would like more details on the 

5 proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 

6 the registration desk and right out here in the 

7 hallway. 

8 Before we get started, I'd like to go 

9 through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 

10 that will help make this evening’s hearing run 

11 smoothly. First, please make sure you have 

12 checked in at the registration desk, even if 

13 you’re not planning to speak today. And if you 

14 signed up to speak online or by phone, but 

15 haven't told us that you're here, please step out 

16 to the registration desk and let the EPA staff 

17 know that you’ve arrived. 

18 I will call the speakers up in pairs. 

19 When your name is called, please come to the 

20 speakers' table at the front of the room. 

21 When I call on you to speak, please state your 

22 name, and spell it for the court reporter. Your 
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1 comments will be transcribed and included in the 

2 record of comments on the proposed rule. 

3 Each speaker will have five minutes to 

4 give comments. We have a timer light to help you 

5 know how much time you have left. When the light 

6 turns from green to yellow, that means you have 

7 one minute remaining. When it turns to red, 

8 that's a signal that you are at five minutes and 

9 it’s time to stop. When you are finished 

10 speaking, please remain at the table until the 

11 person next to you has completed his or her 

12 testimony. 

13 We are here to listen to you today. 

14 However, a panel member may ask a question to 

15 clarify your comments. After that process goes 

16 through, then I will then call up the next pair 

17 of speakers. 

18 If you have brought a copy of your 

19 written, please give that to either us of the 

20 court reporter before you leave today. We will 

21 put any written comments submitted today into the 

22 official docket for the proposed rule. 
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1 We also have comment cards available at 

2 the registration desk, if you would like to 

3 submit additional written comments today. If you 

4 want to comment in writing later, stop by the 

5 materials table at the registration desk and pick 

6 up a copy of the instructions for submitting 

7 written comments. Comments must be received by 

8 January 21, 2016. 

9 Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 

10 much consideration to comments we received in 

11 writing as we do at public hearings like this 

12 one. So if you have more comments that you would 

13 like to provide to the EPA, submit them by the 

14 comment period deadline. Your comments will be 

15 reviewed. 

16 If you have any questions throughout the 

17 evening, please see the staff at the registration 

18 desk, and someone will assist you. 

19 Thank you again for taking the time to 

20 come today to give testimony or observe these 

21 proceedings. Let's get started. 

22 The first two we have are Michael 
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1 Sandoval and Josie Wolf. And I don’t think your 

2 microphones are working either, so we’ll just 

3 listen very attentively. 

4 MS. WOLF: Hi. My name is Josie Wolf, 

5 J-O-S-I-E W-O-L-F. 

6 THE REPORTER: Can you speak up just a 

7 little bit? 

8 JOSIE WOLF: J-O-S-I-E W-O-L-F. 

9 MS. KARKI: Hi. My name is Priyanka 

10 Karki, P-R-I-Y-A-N-K-A, then Karki, K-A-R-K-I. 

11 MS. WOLF: Power plants are one of the 

12 largest sources of carbon pollution in America, 

13 with severe impacts on overall health. 131 

14 million Americans, over 40 percent of the 

15 population, live in areas with poor air quality. 

16 The adverse effects of air pollution, including 

17 ozone and particulate matter, are only amplified 

18 in children. 30 percent of childhood asthma is 

19 due to environmental factors, a number that has 

20 more than doubled in the past three decades due 

21 to the seven percent increase of CO2 emissions in 

22 that time period. 
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1 At my school athletes toting inhalers is 

2 commonplace, even if they play sports with low 

3 cardiovascular requirements. Even in Boulder 

4 County, where the air is praised for its mountain 

5 freshness, kids are experiencing severe 

6 respiratory disorders. Increased carbon 

7 pollution continues to warm our climate, causing 

8 longer allergy season, which, in turn, 

9 exacerbates existing asthma symptoms and creates 

10 more serious illness in a larger proportion of 

11 our population. 

12 Our warming climate has also increased 

13 the presence of vector-borne illnesses, 

14 intensifying the risk of Lyme disease in Colorado 

15 to a level that was not previously prevalent. If 

16 my peers and I hope to continue playing sports, 

17 hiking, and being outside, we need clean power 

18 We need to lessen the disconnect between 

19 future generations and the regulators, who are 

20 weighing apparent short-term economic interest at 

21 the detriment of public health and the 

22 environment. 
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1 The Clean Power Plan has the potential to 

2 greatly reduce pollution from power plants, which 

3 will, in turn, rectify poor health, and protect 

4 the environment. Although the implementation of 

5 the plan may be costly, the cost savings due to a 

6 reduction in air pollutants will reduce 

7 healthcare costs by 14 to 34 billion. The shift 

8 to clean power, including renewable energy, and 

9 increased efficiency must be accelerated to 

10 improve health and reduce healthcare costs 

11 associated with air pollution. 

12 The Clean Power Plan must be implemented 

13 in a manner that makes significant change happen 

14 as quickly as possible to ensure a better worlds 

15 for future generations. 

16 MS. KARKI: Several Net Zero members and 

17 I are here today blowing off homework and the 

18 newest episode of Game of Thrones to remind you 

19 all that the impact of this legislation will be 

20 felt mostly by our generation, and not the 

21 generation of the decision-makers. We are the 

22 greatest stakeholders in this debate, yet we have 
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1 the weakest voices. We urge you to heed our 

2 pleas and to implement the Clean Power Plan in 

3 the strongest way possible as a key step in 

4 ensuring the health of our future, as well as 

5 future generations. 

6 As the Clean Power Plan is the first 

7 national regulation addressing carbon pollution 

8 from power plants, you all have the chance to 

9 pave the path regarding clean power. While all 

10 of us here intend to spend our lives solving the 

11 environmental problems previous generations have 

12 left behind, we would highly appreciate not 

13 inheriting this one as well. 

14 I understand that approving the Clean 

15 Power Plan is only the first step in a series of 

16 steps that will need to be taken in order to 

17 successfully enforce the goal of slowing carbon 

18 emissions. Nonetheless, with the increasing 

19 effects of pollution taking its toll on the 

20 population and the environment, it is imperative 

21 that the plan be implemented in an aggressive 

22 manner. 
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1 According to the EPA, its mission is to 

2 protect human health and the environment. 

3 However, with increasing rates of asthma and the 

4 existence of days when even healthy kids are 

5 encouraged to stay indoors, it could be said that 

6 the EPA has not yet achieved its mission. 

7 However, the Clean Power Plan provides an 

8 opportunity for the EPA to correct these past 

9 failures, as well as an opportunity for it to 

10 more vigorously follow its own mission. 

11 So for the health of my generation and 

12 the generations to follow, I strongly urge you 

13 all to be our heroes and finalize a federal plan, 

14 as well as the model rules that will ensure that 

15 the Clean Power Plan will drive real reductions 

16 in carbon pollution, play a role in shifting away 

17 from wasteful sources to cleaner sources, as well 

18 as to create a greater emphasis on energy 

19 efficiency. 

20 Thank you. 

21 MS. NOONAN: Mr. Sandoval? 

22 MR. SANDOVAL: Michael Sandoval, 
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1 M-I-C-H-A-E-L S-A-N-D-O-V-A-L. I’m here on 

2 behalf of Independence Institute. 

3 In its December 2014 comments, the 

4 Colorado Department of Public Health and 

5 Environment, the Colorado Public Utilities 

6 Commission, and the Colorado Energy Office all 

7 maintained that in Colorado the PUC has exclusive 

8 statutory authority to regulate the IOUs and the 

9 associated electric resource decisions that, 

10 depending on the plan elements proposed by 

11 Colorado, legislation may be needed to clarify or 

12 direct state agencies on their respective roles 

13 and authorities. We continue to question the EPA 

14 and the Colorado Department of Public Health and 

15 other agencies’ role in establishing and 

16 clarifying that legislation that might be 

17 necessary for the Clean Power Plan and any model 

18 trading program. 

19 The Independence Institute is a free 

20 market think tank interested in promoting free 

21 market energy resources. But as nice or well22 intentioned as a trading market for energy or 
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1 eligible resource credits sounds at first glance, 

2 it becomes evident that government-created 

3 markets are simply picking energy winners and 

4 losers, often arbitrarily and often without 

5 actual considerations of cost or impact, but 

6 rather to self-serving goals within a given 

7 policy such as the Clean Power Plan. When most 

8 transactional costs of trading ERCs rise within 

9 the model trading plan, who will pay them? 

10 Inefficiencies won’t be borne at the 

11 administrative or even generating level, but by 

12 the ratepayers and taxpayers, important 

13 stakeholders in this process, not all of whom 

14 will be prepared for the rising costs of the 

15 Clean Power Plan itself, much less in terms of 

16 wealth transfers from state to state as the 

17 trading scheme expands. 

18 So far, as with much else from the 

19 rollout of the Clean Power Plan, the timeline for 

20 market creation is heavily compacted. 

21 Information from CDPHE in September on the 

22 question of trading was light and very unhelpful. 
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1 This program will likely prove harder and more 

2 expensive and more nuanced than any central 

3 planning or federal trading scheme could possibly 

4 account for ahead of time. 

5 These comments, of course, fall into the 

6 requisite acknowledgement of the ongoing legal, 

7 technical, and other shortcomings of the overall 

8 Clean Power Plan. Proposing a FIP and trading 

9 scheme would appear to be adopting a one-size10 fits-all scheme to hasty environmental and 

11 electric generating and planning at federal and 

12 state levels, and expansion of EPA control over 

13 generation, distribution, and energy choice at 

14 the state level. 

15 Impressing the timeline in 2016 will 

16 leave states scrambling without guidance ahead of 

17 their initial state plan submissions in 2016. 

18 Complicated mechanisms like a credit-trading 

19 scheme, besides being legally or technically 

20 burdensome, surely deserve a measured approach, 

21 if they are to be approached at all. 

22 Concerns about the Clean Power Plan or a 
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1 credit-trading system will continue with regards 

2 to electric reliability, and electricity prices, 

3 something the State of Colorado has indicated is 

4 a foremost consideration, should we be able to 

5 take the state agencies and political 

6 establishment at their word. 

7 Finally, all portions of the Clean Power 

8 Plan must and should address the regressive 

9 nature of raising electricity prices on the 

10 nation’s poor, minority, elderly, and other 

11 vulnerable communities. 

12 Thank you. 

13 MS. NOONAN: I actually have a clarifying 

14 question. 

15 MR. SANDOVAR: Yes. 

16 MS. NOONAN: Early on you said there was 

17 something that was unhelpful guidance. You used 

18 an acronym, I think. Could you -- 

19 Finally, all portions of the Clean Power 

20 Plan must and should address the regressive 

21 nature of raising electricity prices on the 

22 nation’s poor, minority, elderly, and other 
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1 vulnerable communities. 

2 Thank you. 

3 MS. NOONAN: I actually have a clarifying 

4 question. 

5 MR. SANDOVAR: Yes. 

6 MS. NOONAN: Early on you said there was 

7 something that was unhelpful guidance. You used 

8 an acronym, I think. Could you –- 

9 MR. SANDOVAR: The Colorado Department of 

10 Public Health and Environment. 

11 MS. NOONAN: Great. Thank you. 

12 MR. SANDOVAR: Yes. 

13 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Thank you all. 

14 MR. SANDOVAR: Thank you. 

15 MS. NOONAN: Up next we have Ashley Tseng 

16 and Abby Bloomfield, please. 

17 Hi. 

18 MS. BLOOMFIELD: Hello. 

19 MS. NOONAN: Project. 

20 MS. BLOOMFIELD: Hello. My name is Abby 

21 Bloomfield. 

22 MS. TSENG: And I am Ashley. 
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1 MS. BLOOMFIELD: And we are members of 

2 the Fairfield High School Net Zero Environmental 

3 Club. 

4 Climate change is a long-term problem 

5 with repercussions that threaten almost every 

6 facet of our lives. A problem of this magnitude 

7 require permanent and systematic solution. 

8 Now, maybe it’s the fact that I’m knee9 deep in college applications, but I find a strong 

10 parallel between college and the Clean Power 

11 Plan. For most of my life, college has been the 

12 goal, the end point. Everything I’ve done will 

13 hopefully culminate in a letter that says 

14 congratulations. Getting into college is an 

15 incredible accomplishment; and as every high 

16 school counselor will tell you, it’s kind of 

17 important as well. Unfortunately, however, life 

18 itself isn’t solved with an acceptance letter. 

19 College simply ushers in a new chapter. It’s 

20 what you do in college and after that shapes 

21 where you land. 

22 In this way the Clean Power Plan is just 
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1 like college. Its adoption was a critical and 

2 necessary first step in getting the nation to 

3 fight the largest source of climate destabilizing 

4 pollution. The standards it establishes could 

5 set us on the trajectory for comprehensive reform 

6 both here and throughout the world. But just 

7 like college, this plan is neither a ticket, not 

8 a set path. This is why we hope regulating 

9 bodies and the general populous will continue to 

10 be strong and decisive in addressing climate 

11 change, because in order to truly mitigate 

12 climate change in a meaningful and impactful way, 

13 we need to be systematic in our approach. 

14 MS. TSENG: We’ve already got our foot in 

15 the door, the hardest part of starting anything. 

16 However, my parents, teachers, and coaches always 

17 tell me the same thing, “The start is important, 

18 but the following through is what makes the real 

19 impact.” Stopping halfway through is akin to 

20 never starting in the first place with nothing 

21 but wasted time and efforts. 

22 As an environmental club and generation 
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1 of mindful students, we are proud of the Clean 

2 Power Plan. But more than that, we are hopeful. 

3 We are hopeful that it marks the eve of a 

4 revolution. And we are hopeful that it is the 

5 ground of a permanent infrastructure that 

6 protects our planet for our generations and all 

7 generations to come, because climate change is 

8 not slowing down and the impacts are becoming 

9 more palpable. 

10 In my lifetime alone, the average 

11 temperature of the oceans and land masses has 

12 risen .8 to one degrees, the Greenland Ice Sheet 

13 has shrunk by 15 percent, and extreme weather 

14 events have become more increasingly common. 

15 Although I feel pretty old and even had a 

16 quarter-life crisis the other day, apparently 16 

17 years old is not a lot by most time scales. What 

18 once took ages to happen has taken little over a 

19 decade. As humans, we have the capability to 

20 bring life or suffering, and our very existence 

21 is proof that life is possible. 

22 MS. BLOOMFIELD: So we ask you to treat 
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1 the Clean Power Plan as the start or a permanent 

2 reform. 

3 MS. TSENG: We ask you to be firm in your 

4 enforcement of the current rules. 

5 MS. BLOOMFIELD: We ask you to be 

6 ambitious when you develop new, more rigorous 

7 standards. 

8 MS. TSENG: And we ask you to be creative 

9 and open in finding new ways to reduce pollution. 

10 MS. BLOOMFIELD: We ask you to be mindful 

11 of the future generations who will inherit the 

12 planet. 

13 Thank you. 

14 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

15 THE REPORTER: Can I get the spellings of 

16 your first and last name? 

17 MS. BLOOMFIELD: Oh, absolutely. 

18 Abigail, A-B-A-G-A-I-L, Bloomfield, 

19 B-L-O-O-M-F-I-E-L-D. 

20 MS. TSENG: Ashley, A-S-H-L-E-Y, Tseng, 

21 T-S-E-N-G. 

22 THE REPORTER: Thank you. 
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1 MS. BLOOMFIELD: Thank you guys so much 

2 for your time. 

3 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Up next we have 

4 Sierra Cantliffe and Clara Dresselhaus. 

5 And on deck we have Elyssa Hofgard and 

6 Nancy Stone. 

7 Start with spelling your names. 

8 MS. STONE: Yes. I’m Nancy Stone, 

9 N-A-N-C-Y S-T-O-N-E. 

10 MS. CANTLIFFE: I’m Sierra Cantliffe, 

11 S-I-E-R-R-A C-A-N-T-L-I-F-F-E. 

12 MS. STONE: When I was younger, some of 

13 my favorite things to learn about in school were 

14 about nature and the world around us. I can 

15 remember learning all about polar bears, how they 

16 lived in the North Pole on floating ice and 

17 hunted seals. I can remember learning about 

18 coral reefs, the immense number of aquatic 

19 species that lived there, the bright colors of 

20 thousands of variants of coral. I can remember 

21 that after the four distinct seasons a tree was 

22 the most basic element of my elementary school 
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1 drawings. It’s interesting to reflect on how 

2 commonplace all of these things seemed. But the 

3 truth is when I was a child I took the 

4 environment for granted, and now all of these 

5 things that I learned about are vanishing and 

6 changing before my eyes. 

7 The ramifications of climate change have 

8 already burst my childhood bubble. Polar bears 

9 are increasingly being threatened by melting 

10 icecaps. The walls of their habitat are 

11 collapsing upon them, melting into the sea. As 

12 the temperature of the oceans steadily rises, the 

13 colors of nature in our oceans are being drained 

14 away. Reefs are fading and bleaching, expelling 

15 their tenants, and turning into colorless ghost 

16 towns. The environment around us is melting 

17 away, and fading into a skeleton of its former 

18 vibrant beauty. 

19 With everything that’s changed since my 

20 childhood, I am filled with fear that my own 

21 children won’t even know what a polar bear is, 

22 won’t know the colorful potential ocean reefs 
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1 once had, won’t be able to tell the difference 

2 between the seasons due to hellish weather 

3 patterns, won’t know the smell of fresh pine due 

4 to temperature changes that wipe out trees. I am 

5 only 17, and I’m already worrying about the 

6 implications upon my children of a future plagued 

7 with global warming. 

8 I implore you to consider the future. 

9 Only then can we instill in the next generation 

10 the same pure appreciation of the world around 

11 us. 

12 MS. CANTLIFFE: The Clean Power Plan is 

13 an opportunity for far-reaching reform. It is 

14 important that we take advantage of this 

15 important piece of regulation, which is why we 

16 have carpooled here today on a school night, 

17 because we think it’s more important to speak to 

18 you, rather than doing our homework. 

19 We’re in a race against time to address 

20 climate change. Lives and communities across 

21 America have been at harm by extreme weather, 

22 including Boulder County, which experienced 
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1 damaging floods three years ago, and last year a 

2 hard freeze in November, killing thousands of 

3 Boulder’s trees, which couldn’t withstand the 

4 dramatic temperature change. 

5 The predicted effects of climate change 

6 will impact everyone. Climate safeguards cannot 

7 wait. We urge the EPA to finalize a federal plan 

8 that puts federal protections in place each time 

9 that a state declines to protect its citizens 

10 from the extensive carbon pollution from 

11 smokestacks. EPA must adopt strong measures to 

12 make sure power plants generate real reductions, 

13 and make sure companies cannot cheat. 

14 I have learned that states are supposed 

15 to submit their own plans to EPA for approval. 

16 If a state is not on track to submit its final 

17 plan, EPA should issue its own final plan as soon 

18 as possible. That plan should include strong 

19 federal limits on carbon pollution. 

20 On behalf of all of Net Zero, thank you 

21 for listening to our testimony, and thank you for 

22 taking action. 
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1 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 

2 So Clara and Elyssa? 

3 MS. HOFGARD: Yes, ma’am. 

4 MS. DRESSELHAUS: Clara Dresselhaus, 

5 C-L-A-R-A D-R-E-S-S-E-L-H-A-U-S. 

6 MS. HOFGARD: Elyssa Hofgard, E-L-Y-S-S-A 

7 H-O-F-G-A-R-D. 

8 We are speaking on behalf of Net Zero 

9 Environmental Club. 

10 The Clean Power Plan is a crucial step in 

11 the right direction for environmental policy. 

12 Manmade emissions of greenhouse gases, primarily 

13 carbon dioxide, are changing our climate in 

14 fundamental ways. This problem is only going to 

15 get worse if we don’t act aggressively. 

16 The US is one of the leading producers of 

17 CO2 pollution, with fossil fuel power plants 

18 making up 31 percent of US total greenhouse gas 

19 emissions. The Clean Power Plan is vital for 

20 America to start to do its part to address the 

21 dire threat of climate change. 

22 Our generation is going to be one where 
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1 climate change will certainly occur, and one 

2 where policy change must occur. By 2100 the 

3 average temperature is projected to increase by 

4 about three to 12 degrees Fahrenheit. These are 

5 global averages, so in some places temperature 

6 changes will be even greater. Greenhouse gases 

7 stain the atmosphere for a long period of time, 

8 so it is imperative that we act now to avert 

9 disaster. 

10 Our current system of self-regulation is 

11 not enough. To preserve our future, we must act 

12 aggressively with no hesitation. The CPP 

13 provides a partnership between the state and 

14 federal government in reducing carbon dioxide 

15 emissions from power plants. Admirably, it is 

16 the first national plan to address carbon 

17 pollution from power plants. However, we must 

18 implement this plan effectively. We must act 

19 aggressively now with a strong national policy, 

20 including EPA developing a federal plan that will 

21 apply in states that do not develop their own 

22 plans. 
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1 One of the most common arguments against 

2 increasing federal regulation is that of the 

3 economy. However, this is a false statement, as 

4 addressing climate change will not hurt our 

5 economy. The CPP is projected to have net 

6 benefits alone of 26 to $45 billion. But even if 

7 it did hurt our economy, we cannot put the 

8 profits of businesses over that of living, 

9 breathing people. In the long run, by protecting 

10 our future, increasing environmental regulations 

11 will save us money. Imagine this: We could burn 

12 through massive amounts of our fossil fuels, 

13 increasing greenhouse gas concentrations beyond 

14 the point where humans can do anything about it, 

15 and where the costs of addressing these problems 

16 become exponentially higher. By reducing our 

17 carbon emissions now, we can save major costs in 

18 the future. With strict federal regulation, we 

19 can maintain a habitable and economically-strong 

20 planet. 

21 MS. DRESSELHAUS: Although the 

22 announcement of the Clean Power Plan is certainly 
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1 an accomplishment to be celebrated, the EPA must 

2 be aggressive in its implementation, including 

3 imposing a strong federal plan in states that do 

4 not adopt their own plans. 

5 The new federal rule will create 

6 innovation and drive new technology by allowing 

7 states to submit their own proposals. But at the 

8 end of the day, businesses and big companies, 

9 such as power plants, exist for one sole purpose, 

10 profit. As seen by the ongoing opposition to the 

11 CPP by those favoring dirty energy, these 

12 entities will try to circumvent this planet at 

13 every point possible. We all know what happened 

14 at Volkswagen. 

15 In addition, if we do not enact a strong 

16 federal regulation, the risk of criminal activity 

17 is higher. Recently, under the Clean Air Act, a 

18 biodiesel fuel company was caught defrauding the 

19 EPA and selling renewable identification numbers 

20 to oil companies. If we do not enact strong 

21 federal regulation, a similar scenario could 

22 occur. 
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1 By enacting strong federal regulation, we 

2 can help those who cannot help themselves by 

3 leading the way on addressing climate change. 

4 Climate change will have a disproportionate 

5 effect on poor countries, as well as their 

6 citizens. A change in global temperature will 

7 have the most dramatic effect on these developing 

8 countries. We, as a nation, can lead the way. 

9 We can make this a world where the voiceless are 

10 protected, and we have the potential to become a 

11 nation that changes the world by developing 

12 affordable, effective, and alternative measures. 

13 As Americans, we often don’t understand 

14 global issues until they actually affect our 

15 entire population. However, it is an issue of 

16 global security. At the moment we are destroying 

17 our planet without heed to future generations. 

18 Our generation, as well as the ones that come 

19 after it will be the ones who deal with the 

20 repercussions of our changing climate. 

21 So as a representative of all the 

22 voiceless youth, we ask you to take firm action 
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1 on behalf of your children, and grandchildren. 

2 Thank you for your time. 

3 MS. NOONAN: Okay. Up next we have Chris 

4 Applegate and Tom Bloomfield. 

5 MR. BLOOMFIELD: Chris, you’re up. They 

6 called you first. 

7 MR. APPLEGATE: All right. Chris 

8 Applegate, C-H-R-I-S A-P-P-L-E-G-A-T-E. 

9 I’m Chris Applegate. I’m from Denver, 

10 Colorado. I want to thank you for letting the 

11 public have an opportunity to comment on the 

12 Clean Power Plan federal implementation plan. 

13 It’s been an historic year for the EPA and the 

14 Obama Administration implementing rules and 

15 guidelines to place safeguards to protect our 

16 air, our water, our climate, and the health of 

17 our communities. 

18 The largest source of greenhouse gases 

19 come from fossil fuel-fired power plants, and 

20 represents about 40 percent of the total carbon 

21 emissions here in the United States. The federal 

22 implementation plan must protect and benefit 
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1 communities of color, low-income individuals, and 

2 indigenous communities that experience the 

3 impacts of fossil fuel pollution and impacts of 

4 climate change the most; two, ensure the carbon 

5 pollution standards achieve the pollution 

6 reductions as promised; three, maximize 

7 utilities’ incentives to invest in energy 

8 efficiencies to help protect low-income consumers 

9 by lowering household energy bills; four, ensure 

10 that no giveaways or allowances to fossil fuel 

11 sources are allowed. 

12 While many states like Colorado plan on 

13 developing our own Clean Power Plan, other states 

14 may not comply with this act. Climate change and 

15 carbon pollution know no borders, and that is why 

16 it will be critical that the EPA promptly issue a 

17 federal implementation plan if a state refuses 

18 to, or cannot comply with the Clean Power Plan. 

19 The Clean Power Plan will address climate 

20 disruption, while cleaning up our air, while also 

21 modernizing how we power our country and our 

22 economy. This will spur up even more innovation 
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1 that is already occurring and creating thousands 

2 of more jobs in the green-collar economy with 

3 billions of dollars of new investments. 

4 Colorado has already received $600 in 

5 federal disaster aid in 2011, 2012 to cover 

6 extreme weather events from climate disruption, 

7 which is why we as a nation must comply to this 

8 plan together. Climate disruption will continue 

9 to affect Colorado and our way of life. In order 

10 to lessen this impact, we will need to see the 

11 federal implementation plan deployed quickly for 

12 any state that does not comply. 

13 I have seen climate disruption in my home 

14 state of Missouri. I have seen the impacts in 

15 Oklahoma while going to college there and 

16 working. And now here in Colorado I see the 

17 changes occurring from Rocky Mountain National 

18 Park, to the floods that were occurring, to the 

19 droughts that have been in the past back in 2012 

20 and 2011. California has seen major impacts to 

21 the way of life due to climate disruption as 

22 well. 
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1 We can no longer allow unlimited amounts 

2 of carbon into our air, but instead invest in a 

3 future that places safeguards to protect our air, 

4 our water, our climate, and the health of our 

5 communities as we begin to implement the Clean 

6 Power Plan. And I think seeing these ladies come 

7 up tonight to talk proves that this will be an 

8 important plan moving forward to create a better 

9 future for their kids, and their great-grandkids, 

10 and everyone moving forward in this country. 

11 Thank you. 

12 MR. BLOOMFIELD: Thank you. My name is 

13 Tom Bloomfield, T-O-M B-L-O-O-M-F-I-E-L-D, and 

14 I’m with the Gallagher Law Group. 

15 Hi. My name is Tom Bloomfield. I’m with 

16 the Gallagher Law Group. I’m here on behalf of 

17 Environmental Defense Fund. 

18 The EPA’s Clean Power Plan is a vital 

19 step forward to help address global warming that 

20 will yield benefits of 26 to $45 billion annually 

21 once fully implanted. In particular, it is 

22 expected to save 3,600 lives each year, and 
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1 prevent 90,000 asthma attacks annually. 

2 The EDF thanks EPA for finalizing this 

3 historic carbon pollution program and these 

4 limits that will help address our nation’s single 

5 largest source of carbon pollution. 

6 EDF encourages states to seize the 

7 opportunity they will have under the CPP to 

8 develop their own state plans tailored to their 

9 unique opportunities for innovation and cost 

10 savings. We encourage EPA to finalize the model 

11 rule frameworks just as soon as possible to help 

12 support smart state planning efforts. 

13 In particular, we encourage EPA to 

14 consider whether some components of the model 

15 rules can be finalized shortly after the comment 

16 period closes in order to provide states even 

17 more clarity as they work to develop their plans. 

18 Standardized model rules will play an important 

19 guidance role for states to help them develop 

20 strong plans that ensure environmental integrity. 

21 Model rule frameworks can help cut down on the 

22 administration work necessary for states, 
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1 allowing states to focus on the customizable 

2 components of their implementation efforts that 

3 are most important to the stakeholders in their 

4 states. 

5 In addition, finalized rules will help 

6 facilitate interstate trading by doing, as you 

7 said, the heavy lifting on the detailed 

8 underpinnings of emission trading programs, which 

9 can help drive innovation and cost savings. In 

10 particular, the trading-ready feature of the 

11 model rules provide an important opportunity for 

12 states to adopt a state plan that is compatible 

13 with others. 

14 On the proposed federal plan, if states 

15 decline to carry out their responsibilities to 

16 protect human health and the environment from 

17 damaging carbon pollution, it is EPA’s 

18 responsibility to do so. This is the compelling 

19 bipartisan vision of the Clean Air Act, that all 

20 Americans are entitled to protections of clean 

21 air under the law. To realize that vision, EPA 

22 must ensure that real-world emission reductions 
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1 are secured when states decline to do so. 

2 EDF urges EPA to finalize a federal plan 

3 that puts federal protection in place swiftly 

4 when a state declines to act. We are in a race 

5 against time, and climate safeguards cannot wait. 

6 Moreover, swiftly understanding the federal plan 

7 parameters will provide additional certainty for 

8 businesses. 

9 In addition, we support EPA’s proposal to 

10 issue a federal plan for any state that does not 

11 meet one of the interim state planning 

12 milestones. We urge EPA to do so within one year 

13 or less if a state doesn’t meet those. 

14 It is also essential that EPA ensure a 

15 plan that is properly implemented in cases where 

16 the state is not implementing its own plan and 

17 fails to take corrective action. This federal 

18 plan must fully account for any foregone emission 

19 reductions. 

20 We also urge EPA to put in place 

21 effective federal limits on carbon pollution when 

22 a state declines to carry out its responsibility. 
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1 That means EPA must adopt enforceable limits on 

2 the volume of carbon pollution discharged by 

3 affected power plants, and ensure that such 

4 limits are accompanied by strong measures to 

5 ensure that these limits are not circumvented, 

6 and generate real reductions across the power 

7 sector. Any finalized federal plan should be 

8 trading-ready so companies can retain maximum 

9 flexibility to secure least-cost emission 

10 reductions. 

11 Furthermore, even in the context of a 

12 federal plan, EPA should offer opportunities to 

13 work in partnership with the state. For example, 

14 EPA can allow a state to customize certain 

15 modular elements of the federal plan so long as 

16 it does not undermine the environmental integrity 

17 of the program. In addition, EPA could allow a 

18 state to carry out and implement and enforce the 

19 federal plan. Moreover, a state should always 

20 have the option to step in and replace the 

21 federal plan with an individualized state plan. 

22 We urge EPA to finalize its Clean Energy 
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1 Incentive Program. It is essential that there 

2 are incentives for early action to reduce carbon 

3 pollution before the 2022 start of the Clean 

4 Power Plan so that we can continue the progress 

5 that America’s already making to address carbon 

6 pollution from the electricity sector. We 

7 support EPA’s commitment to design the CEIP to 

8 encourage additional reductions, and not reduce 

9 program stringency. 

10 In addition, EPA should take care in 

11 laying out its definition of low-income 

12 efficiency supporting authentic community 

13 engagement in CEIP design processes, and 

14 providing appropriate technical guidance in order 

15 to ensure that the programs are judiciously 

16 targeted and fully leveraged to benefit low17 income communities. 

18 Thank you again for the opportunity to 

19 provide these comments. 

20 MS. NOONAN: Mr. Applegate, you had –- we 

21 would be interested if you could submit in your 

22 written comments anything you had about the 
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1 giveaway section that you were describing, no 

2 giveaways. If you have specifics about that, we 

3 would be very interested in what your definition 

4 of that is. 

5 MR. APPLEGATE: All right. Thank you. 

6 MS. HIGHT: And Mr. Bloomfield mention 

7 the Clean Energy Incentive Program, and we’re 

8 having a number of outreach calls about the Clean 

9 Energy Incentive Program for folks to provide 

10 feedback to us about what they’d like to see for 

11 the design and implementation details of that 

12 program. These are open to the public. The next 

13 one will be on November 23 in the evening. So if 

14 you feel so inclined to listen in to that, you 

15 can. There are also calls on December 1, and 

16 November 30, and details for those are all on our 

17 website. 

18 MS. NOONAN: Is there anyone here who has 

19 not yet spoken who would like to at this time? 

20 Okay. With that, I think we’re going to 

21 take a short recess, and come back at 7:05. 

22 
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1 (Whereupon, at 6:49 p.m., a brief recess 

2 was taken, to reconvene at 7:04 p.m.) 

3 MS. NOONAN: We’re going to resume the 

4 hearing. Again, I apologize that we can’t figure 

5 it out, but the microphones do not seem to be 

6 working. So we have opened and closed the blinds 

7 and other things, so we apologize we can’t get 

8 the sound system to work. 

9 At any rate, our next two speakers would 

10 be David Smaldone and Mike Nasi. 

11 And if you’re having trouble hearing, 

12 please come forward and sit, please. 

13 MR. SMALDONE: My name is David Smaldone 

14 MS. NOONAN: And could you spell it for 

15 the court reporter? 

16 DAVID SMALDONE: Yes. David 

17 S-M-A-L-D-O-N-E. 

18 My name is David Smaldone. I am the 

19 President of Friends of Coal West, and I’m also 

20 here tonight speaking on behalf of the Utah 

21 Mining Association. 

22 I’d like to make a few points. One of 
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1 them is that the underlying principle of the 

2 Clean Power Plan is illegal, so to implement this 

3 Clean Power Plan is also illegal. And I’d like 

4 to respectfully request that the rulemaking 

5 should be stopped until the Clean Power Plan is 

6 either deemed legal, or illegal. I think that is 

7 appropriate. 

8 Secondly, there’s really a face of the 

9 impact to the Clean Power Plan. Even though it’s 

10 not discussed very much, the Clean Power Plan 

11 will actually increase electric rates to both 

12 businesses, and to individuals. This is more 

13 than just putting coal miners out of work, and a 

14 plan that diminishes coal, electricity that’s 

15 produced by coal. 

16 In Utah 80 percent of the electrical 

17 power is produced by coal. Utah has one of the 

18 lowest electric rates in the nation, and it’s 

19 really due to the low cost of coal. And I should 

20 make the point that coal mines in the nation and 

21 in the West have one of the strongest safety 

22 records of heavy industries. If you make a 
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1 comparison to heavy industries, coal mining is 

2 one of the lowest. Also the electric generation 

3 that’s produced by coal is also low. 

4 But the real face and the real tragedy is 

5 that people are going to be faced with higher 

6 electric bills. Small business owners are going 

7 to be faced with higher electric bills. And I 

8 was at a meeting several years ago, or just a 

9 couple years ago, and someone asked, “Why are 

10 businesses wanting to move to Utah?” And, you 

11 know, the first impression is because it’s 

12 beautiful, you know, they had the Olympics here, 

13 and all that. It’s really because they 

14 essentially have almost the lowest power prices 

15 in the United States. If you look at a chart 

16 that shows all the states in the union, Utah has 

17 one of the lowest, and it’s really due to that 

18 most of the coal, 80 percent –- or most of the 

19 power is produced by coal. 

20 And lastly, this is being done for what, 

21 one hundredth of an inch of a sea level rise? I 

22 mean really all of this impact to come through 
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1 with this Clean Power Plan is very minimal. The 

2 actual environmental impact is very miniscule and 

3 minimal, and there’s just a lot of pain that’s 

4 going to be the result for many individuals, 

5 elderly, and small business owners, and large 

6 corporations. 

7 And it’s not all about money. The coal 

8 industry, the electrical generation industry 

9 really have paid a lot of money to put 

10 environmental impacts or environmental facilities 

11 on their plants to control environmental 

12 emissions. 

13 Thank you. 

14 MS. NOONANA: Mr. Nasi? 

15 MR. NASI: Yeah. Thank you. 

16 For the record my name is Mike Nasi, 

17 N-A-S-I, and I’m the General Counsel of a group 

18 called the Balanced Energy for Texas Coalition. 

19 It’s a group of energy consumers, producers, and 

20 providers committed to supporting policies that 

21 support markets that bring about energy 

22 diversity, but not regulatory mandates that get 
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1 in the way of those markets. Our members and 

2 myself will be filing several detailed comments 

3 on the proposed federal plan in the written 

4 comment period. 

5 Today I just wanted to hit a couple of 

6 high spots, two of them procedural process 

7 oriented, and two of them substantive. 

8 The first is about the comment period. 

9 We know that the agency is always being asked to 

10 do more with less, and comment periods can be 

11 resource-intensive. But, you know, by any 

12 measure, this is one of the most significant 

13 regulatory proposals, you know, maybe second only 

14 to the regulatory proposal that preceded it that 

15 it’s proposing to implement. And so, you know, a 

16 60-day –- the comment period that would end in 

17 January is insufficient, in our opinion. And we 

18 would respectfully request and lodge now and we 

19 will be doing so again in our comments that we 

20 file, but now is the time to implore the EPA to 

21 extend at least by 90 days the written comment 

22 period. Much more time is needed, really for two 
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1 specific reasons, among others. 

2 One is there are very innovative but 

3 brand new credit trading proposals that are part 

4 of this federal plan. The Clean Energy Incentive 

5 Program is a case in point. It’s never seen the 

6 light of day in terms of the public’s input. It 

7 is now, and that input will be meaningful, but it 

8 will be much more meaningful the more time we 

9 have to digest it. The members of our group, the 

10 people who produce electricity and consume it, 

11 need more time to understand its impacts. That’s 

12 particularly true given the fact that most of the 

13 agency’s, EPA’s, reliability assessments, grid 

14 stability assessments are based on the success, 

15 the likely success of credit programs, of trading 

16 programs. So since trading, as part of a federal 

17 plan implementation, is so central to its success 

18 in not upsetting grid reliability, we would 

19 implore the agency to have a longer written 

20 comment period to make sure we vet those trading 

21 programs. 

22 A related process question is the fact 
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1 that the public hearing -– as much as we love 

2 Denver, love Denver coming from Austin, and maybe 

3 even get to see some snow today, one public 

4 hearing location, literally just one west of 

5 Atlanta is inadequate. It may not feel 

6 inadequate after two days of sitting in this 

7 room, but certainly for people who have to travel 

8 a thousand plus miles, the rate-paying public 

9 really deserves an opportunity to speak about the 

10 impacts of this rule, as do environmental 

11 interests for that matter. And we would implore 

12 the agency to revisit how many public hearings 

13 it’s going to have about the federal plan before 

14 it concludes the written comment period 

15 certainly. 

16 The second procedural question has to do 

17 with the need to ensure right up front to the 

18 public that there’s going to be a comment period, 

19 a notice and comment period that complies with 

20 the Administrative Procedures Act when EPA moves 

21 in an individual state with the federal plan. 

22 You know, in reading the several hundred pages of 
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1 the preamble, it’s pretty clear that EPA is 

2 commencing a public participation process on this 

3 plan at a high level, and the implication is that 

4 when or if a state files an inadequate plan, or 

5 for whatever reason doesn’t submit a plan, or 

6 can’t because internal strife prevents it from 

7 doing so, that somehow this is going to be 

8 ministerial the word is used in implementing this 

9 federal plan in those states. 

10 I would submit and we would respectfully 

11 request that the EPA needs to be very clear that 

12 when it moves to implement this federal plan at a 

13 state level it needs to go through the public 

14 participation process, the notice and comment 

15 process. A great analogy is the EPA clearly is 

16 going to require each state that decides to do a 

17 plan to have extensive public input processes. 

18 In fact, it’s, by definition, a required element 

19 of the plan to get an extension. And so EPA is 

20 commencing some processes in conjunction with 

21 this stage of the federal plan, but I think it is 

22 incumbent upon the agency to be much more clear 
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1 up front that it will be going through a notice 

2 and comment period when it implements the federal 

3 plan at a state-specific level. There are far 

4 too many state-specific variables, far too many 

5 differences in terms of market structures, market 

6 designs, grid needs, and resource mixes to think 

7 that we can really knock out all the public 

8 issues we want in this broad rulemaking that 

9 we’re currently doing. 

10 So those are our two procedural 

11 suggestions, more public comment on this plan, 

12 and making sure we go through notice and comment 

13 once we implement at the state level, two of a 

14 myriad, but two that we’ll hit today. 

15 Substantive issues, one has to do with 

16 the legal precedent that is set by this plan. 

17 You know, it was already mentioned that if the 

18 underlying rulemaking here in the Clean Power 

19 Plan, the 111(d) rule, if that rule has problems, 

20 then any plan that would propose to implement it 

21 has the same problems. And I certainly agree 

22 with the suggestion that this agency does not 
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1 need to develop a federal enforcement plan for a 

2 rule that has fundamental legal problems. 

3 First, it should, at minimum, wait for 

4 the court to determine that that rule is legal. 

5 Second, it should be on parallel track developing 

6 a Clean Power Plan, if it’s going to develop one, 

7 that actually is within its statutory authority. 

8 And I would very briefly define that as actually 

9 being derived from what can be accomplished 

10 within the fence line of a power plan, inside the 

11 fence. So, you know, we will certainly, members 

12 and myself, be detailing a long list of legal 

13 problems with the underlying Clean Power Plan in 

14 litigation that we’re actively involved in. 

15 But I would just simply implore anybody 

16 reading this transcript, listening to these 

17 tapes, however it’s going to be communicated to 

18 the public, that the precedent set is a very 

19 dangerous one here. We have a rule that affords 

20 the federal executive unchecked authority over 

21 things that it has never been empowered to have 

22 authority over. The state grid, electrical grid 
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1 is something that has been sacrosanct. You know, 

2 states have sovereignty over that. There are 

3 long reasons for why that is. The Federal Clean 

4 Air Act was devised very carefully on the 

5 principle of cooperative federalism, that the 

6 state and federal government would be in 

7 cooperation with each other. When we have a rule 

8 that basically says, “We are going to impose this 

9 set of rules through a federal plan, but you’ve 

10 got a state plan, and it’ll be flexible,” that’s 

11 coercive federalism, not cooperative federalism. 

12 And the last point I’d make briefly is 

13 that this rule is about all pain and no gain. No 

14 matter how much, you know, cries for action there 

15 might be, by EPA’s own modeling methodology, 

16 we’re talking about an almost immeasurable 

17 climate impact. We do not agree with the 

18 principle that this is leadership. We do not 

19 believe that the federal government should be 

20 entering into international negotiations based on 

21 a rule that very well could be struck down by the 

22 courts, which the Congress openly disagrees with. 
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1 We are all about technology. We think 

2 technology can address climate issues, and we 

3 would ask the EPA to return to that basis for 

4 regulation. 

5 Thank you for the time. 

6 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. And I had a 

7 clarifying question for you. It’s about the 

8 public comment period. Thank you for sharing 

9 your request for that. I would also encourage 

10 you to go through the letter-writing process that 

11 goes with that as well. 

12 MR. NASI: Right. 

13 MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 

14 MS. NASI: Thank you for your time. 

15 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 

16 Up next we have Judy Colgan and Andy 

17 Berger, please. 

18 Mr. Berger? 

19 MR. BERGER: Yes, that’s me. 

20 MS. NOONAN: Okay. You can sit right 

21 there. 

22 MR. BERGER: Sure. 
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1 MS. NOONAN: State your name. 

2 MS. COLGAN: I am Judy Colgan. It’s 

3 C-O-L-G-A-N. I am the Executive Director of 

4 Rocky Mountain Coal Mining Institute. We are an 

5 association that represents eight states in the 

6 West, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, 

7 Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. 

8 This rulemaking is particularly onerous 

9 for four of our states. North Dakota, Wyoming, 

10 Colorado, and Texas are being hit particularly 

11 hard through this. As Mr. Nasi stated, it should 

12 be held within a state assessment of what’s right 

13 for that state for the needs for that state, 

14 rather than it being a blanket situation. 

15 You have heard a lot of statistics today, 

16 I’m sure your head is spinning with all that, and 

17 legal things. I want to talk to you on a 

18 personal level, because this is truly going to 

19 impact communities. There are communities like 

20 Craig, Colorado in Northwest Colorado that that 

21 is the industry that feeds that town. And if 

22 they have to shut down the coal industry, then 
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1 you lose an entire community. And when you think 

2 about the tax money that is paid from severance 

3 taxes, from different things by these coal 

4 companies, how are you going to replace that tax 

5 money if you wipe that out? They build little 

6 league fields, community centers. They do all 

7 kinds of huge community things. And you’re 

8 taking those things away. And small businesses 

9 who are barely getting by now, they’re struggling 

10 to keep their doors open. When they’re having to 

11 increase their electricity costs, that depends. 

12 That might put a business completely out that 

13 could have maybe weathered it and sustained it 

14 and become viable and stronger, but with higher 

15 electricity bills, they can’t. 

16 My mother is elderly. She lives on a 

17 fixed income. And I guarantee you that with a 30 

18 to 40-percent increase in her electricity bill 

19 she’s going to have to make some choices. Is 

20 that going to be food? Is that going to be 

21 medicine? No person should have to make those 

22 choices for no good reason. 
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1 Now, I notice back here the, “I love 

2 clean air,” shirts and stuff, which I think are 

3 awesome. You will not find bigger 

4 environmentalists than people who work in the 

5 coal industry. We live in these areas. We raise 

6 our children in these areas. We put the land 

7 back to better quality than it was before. Yes, 

8 we do disturb the land during the time that we’re 

9 giving economic benefit. Then we put it all back 

10 better than it was before. Clean air is not more 

11 important to any person than it is in the people 

12 who live and work in those areas. We don’t want 

13 to –- we are proud of how beautiful Colorado, 

14 Utah –- we love those areas. We live there. We 

15 raise our children there. It’s important to us 

16 too. 

17 But what’s also important to us is a 

18 standard of living that we provide that makes it 

19 affordable. And when people have to match -- 

20 their electricity bill is almost as expensive as 

21 their mortgage for no reason that’s going to be 

22 measurable, then that’s something we have to look 
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1 at. You know, it has to be for the benefit of 

2 everyone. This proposal as it is now is not 

3 beneficial. And we would ask for additional time 

4 for comments and consideration. 

5 Thank you. 

6 MR. BERGER: Thank you. Good evening. 

7 My name is Andy Berger. I’m a substitute for 

8 Rick Gordon, who is Chairman of the Board of 

9 Directors of Tri-State Generation and 

10 Transmission Association. Mr. Gordon could not 

11 attend at this speaking time because of the 

12 forecast for his part of rural Colorado. As 

13 Senior Manager of Environmental Policy for Tri14 State, I appreciate the opportunity to provide 

15 our comments on the Environmental Protection 

16 Agency’s proposed federal plan and model trading 

17 rules. 

18 Tri-State is a not-for-profit wholesale 

19 electric power supply cooperative providing 

20 electric power to 44 rural electric cooperatives 

21 and their 1.5 million members across Colorado, 

22 Nebraska, New Mexico, and Wyoming. What makes us 
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1 unique among utilities is that cooperatives like 

2 Tri-State are member-owned and governed, and 

3 operate on a not-for-profit basis. Our governing 

4 decisions are based on sound financial 

5 principles, utility industry best practices, and, 

6 most importantly, the needs of our members. We 

7 are different than investor-owned utilities. Our 

8 interests are not driven by shareholders, but by 

9 those we serve. We are committed to providing 

10 reliable, affordable, and responsible power to 

11 our members that serve consumers at the end of 

12 the lines. We serve a diverse customer base. 

13 Some of our members serve areas that are 

14 experiencing great economic expansion, while 

15 other members serve some of the poorest 

16 communities in rural America. As a cooperative, 

17 all of Tri-State’s costs, including complying 

18 with regulations like the Clean Power Plan, are 

19 paid by our member owners. We use a diverse mix 

20 of generation sources including coal, natural 

21 gas, hydroelectric, wind, and solar power. We 

22 own more than 5,300 miles of transmission line 
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1 across our service territory. In 2014, 24 

2 percent of energy delivered by Tri-State to its 

3 member systems was generated from non-carbon 

4 dioxide emitting sources. Since 2008, Tri-State 

5 has added nearly 250 megawatts of renewable 

6 energy, and is under contract to add an 

7 additional 281 megawatts by 2017. 

8 Tri-State supports both financially and 

9 operationally progressive energy efficiency 

10 programs offered by our member systems. Despite 

11 these investments, Tri-State relies on fossil 

12 fuel-fired generation to serve load, maintain 

13 reliability, and control costs for our members. 

14 During the rulemaking process for the 

15 Clean Power Plan, Tri-State and its member 

16 systems raised several legal and technical issues 

17 with the proposal, and expressed concerns that it 

18 would significantly impact our members. We have 

19 many of the same concerns with the proposed 

20 federal plan and model trading rules, and we plan 

21 to submit detailed comments. 

22 Tri-State is committed to working with 
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1 officials in the five states in which we operate 

2 to develop state plans and minimize the impact on 

3 rural consumers and employees at our power 

4 plants. This is a complex task, given that 

5 states will be developing plans independently. 

6 But the plans will impact consumers in other 

7 states. For instance, if New Mexico makes a 

8 decision to close or curtail one of our plants, 

9 the impacts are not only on our members in New 

10 Mexico, but also across Nebraska, Colorado, and 

11 Wyoming. 

12 Our concerns with the proposed federal 

13 plan and model trading rules include the 

14 legality, timing, and equitability. I will focus 

15 on timing and equitability. 

16 Both the Clean Power Plan and the 

17 proposed federal plan consist of numerous 

18 compliance options including rate or mass-based 

19 options, and trading or non-trading options. 

20 Evaluating these options requires each state to 

21 dedicate significant time and resources to 

22 develop a plan. States are required to 
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1 simultaneously evaluate the Clean Power Plan, 

2 develop state plans, and evaluate the proposed 

3 federal plan and trading rules. Each option 

4 would have significant and unique effects on how 

5 utilities operate. 

6 Tri-State is concerned that states are 

7 not in a position to effectively engage 

8 stakeholders and complete the necessary analyses 

9 within the short time frame. We are concerned 

10 that states will need additional authority, 

11 funding, and staffing, all of which need to be 

12 appropriated through the legislative process. 

13 Tri-State is concerned that states will 

14 make decisions on a path forward before the EPA 

15 finalizes the model rules in summer 2016. EPA 

16 should encourage states to wait on major 

17 decisions until the rules are finalized. 

18 Regarding equitability, we are concerned 

19 the EPA ignores the investments in existing 

20 plants, and the remaining useful life of each 

21 plant. Tri-State has invested hundreds of 

22 millions to ensure our plants are efficient, and 
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1 have the best controls to reduce emissions. Our 

2 plants are located in rural areas that rely on 

3 energy production to survive, produce low-cost 

4 power for our members, and are critical to 

5 regional reliability. 

6 Tri-State operations are clean, 

7 efficient, support rural economies, are low-cost 

8 and critical to reliability, yet our cooperative9 owned power plants are considered just like every 

10 other power plant in the nation. The one-size11 fits-all approach treats less-efficient plants 

12 the same as efficient plants, and plants with 

13 emission controls the same as those without 

14 controls. 

15 Thank you for the opportunity to provide 

16 comment. 

17 MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 

18 MR. BERGER: Would you like me to leave a 

19 hard copy of my comments? 

20 MS. NOONAN: Yes, please. 

21 At this time there are no other 

22 registered speakers. Is there anyone here who 
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1 has not yet spoken today or is schedule to speak 

2 tomorrow and who would like to speak at this 

3 time? 

4 Okay. With that we will take a recess 

5 for 10 minutes, and then return. 

6 (Whereupon, at 7:28 p.m., the hearing was 

7 adjourned.) 

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