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### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5 

### Public Hearing on the 6


### PROPOSED FEDERAL PLAN AND MODEL RULES FOR THE 7


### POWER PLAN FOR EXISTING POWER PLANTS 8

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### 9:05 a.m. to 7:28 p.m. 13 

### Monday, November 16, 2015 14

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### EPA Region 8 Office 16 

### 1595 Wynkoop Street 17 

### Denver, CO 80202 18

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### MORNING SESSION 1


### EPA Panel: 2 

### JENNY NOONAN, Chair; 3 

### Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 4

5 

### CATE HIGHT, 6 

### Office of Atmospheric Programs 7

8 

### LAURA FARRIS, 9 

### Climate Change Coordinator 10

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### AFTERNOON SESSION 13


### EPA PANEL: 14 

### CALLIE VIDETICH, Chair; 15

### Assistant Regional Administrator, Region 8 16

17 

### NICK SWANSON, 18

### Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 19

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### ETHAN AUMANN, 21

### EPA, Region 8 223

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### EVENING SESSION 1


### EPA PANEL: 2 

### JENNY NOONAN, Chair; 3 

### Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 4

5 

### CATE HIGHT, 6 

### Office of Atmospheric Programs 7

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### NICK SWANSON, 9 

### Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards 10

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### C O N T E N T S 1


### PUBLIC COMMENTS PAGE 2 

### Morning Session 3


### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER 9 4 

### STEVE TOMAC, Basin Electric 18 5 

### DAVID ELLENBERGER, National Wildlife 24 6 

### Federation 7 

### JAMES LUIDL, Sierra Club 29 8 

### LAURA COMER, Sierra Club 32 9 

### JEFF CAPPELLA, Western Clean Energy 35 10

### Campaign 11 

### JOHN MORRIS, Citizen 40 12 

### JAKE BLACK, Citizen 41 13 

### TOM PLANT, Advanced Energy Economy 48 14 

### LAUREN POOLE, Energy Efficiency Coalition 56 15 

### MEG MORRIS, National Wildlife Federation 58 16 

### CURT HUBER, American Lung Association 62 17 

### TYLER SVITAK, American Lung Association 66 18 

### ANDY WILDENBERG, E3 Power 69 19 

### ZABRINA ARNOVITZ, Rights for all People 71 20 

### COLLEEN COPE, Citizen 73 21 

### JANICE ZINKL, Citizen 75 225

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### PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 1 

### RON LEHR, Citizen 77 2 

### CAROL DAVIS, Citizens Against Ruining 82 3 

### Our Environment 4 

### R.J. HARRINGTON, Sustainable Action 85 5 

### Consulting 6 

### KIM STEVENS, Environment Colorado 89 7 

### JAMES HUGHES, Citizen 93 8 

### SANDY BUTTERFIELD, Citizen 96 9 

### STEVEN GARRETT SULLIVAN, Citizen 101 10 

### PAM EATON, Wilderness Society 104 11 

### KARYN WELLER-COFFMAN, Citizen 108 12 

### EMILY FISCHER, Citizen 110 13 

### NOAH KAPLAN, Citizen 111 14 

### JOHN BRINGENBERG, Colorado Solar Energy 114 15

### Industry Association 16 

### BILL PECK, Citizen 119 17 

### CHRIS DAVIS, Citizen 121 18 

### ERICA SHERWOOD, Citizen 123 19

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### AFTERNOON SESSION 21 

### DIANA ORF, Colorado Mining Association 135 226

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### PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 1 

### PHILIP HUFFLEDT, Snowriders 141 2 

### International 3 

### LAURIE BRATTEN, Congressman Ken Buck 147 4 

### LIZA BROWNE, Snowriders International 148 5 

### MARY JO ROTH, Great River Energy 150 6 

### CHAZ TEDESCO, Adams County Commission 156 7 

### JOE MONTOYA, Namaste Solar 159 8 

### NOAH TEITELBAUM, Sierra Club 162 9 

### TRAVIS MADSEN, Environment America 167 10 

### KENT ABERNETHY, Sierra Club 171 11 

### STUART SANDERSEN, Colorado Mining 173 12

### Association 13 

### GERALD HUNTER, Salt River Project 178 14 

### MARK STRAND, Citizen 184 15 

### DEBORAH SCHANEMAN, Platte River Power 187 16

### Authority 17 

### KARA COOK, Citizen 193 18 

### RUSSELL BASSETT, Citizen 196 19 

### ALEC SPRAGUE, Citizen 201 20 

### PETE KOLDENSCHLAG, Colorado Food and Farm 204 21

### Alliance 227

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### PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 1 

### SEAN WORK, Citizen 211 2 

### BRYCE CARTER, Sierra Club 216 3 

### PATTI BRIONES, Sierra Club 222 4 

### KAREN KALAVITY, Sierra Club 225 5 

### BECKY ENGLISH, Sierra Club 230 6 

### JERRY MULLINS, Citizen 238 7


### EVENING SESSION 8 

### JOSIE WOLF, Citizen 251 9 

### PRIYANKA KARKI, Net Zero Club 253 10 

### MICHAEL SANDOVAL, Independence Institute 256 11 

### ABAGAIL BLOOMFIELD and ASHLEY TSENG, 260 12


### Net Zero Club 13 

### NANCY STONE, Net Zero Club 265 14 

### SIERRA CANTLIFFE, Net Zero Club 267 15 

### ELYSSA HOFGARD, Net Zero Club 269 16 

### CLARA DRESSELHAUS, Net Zero Club 272 17 

### CHRIS APPLEGATE, Citizen 274 18 

### TOM BLOOMFIELD, Environmental Defense 277 19


### Fund 20 

### DAVID SMALDONE, Friends of Coal West 284 21

### and Utah Mining Association 228

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### PUBLIC COMMENTS (Continued): PAGE 1 

### MIKE NASI, Balanced Energy for Texas 287 2 

### Coalition 3 

### JUDY COLGAN, Rocky Mountain Coal Mining 296 4 

### Institute 5 

### ANDY BERGER, Tri-State Generation and 299 6 

### Transmission Association. 7

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2


### P R O C E E D I N G S 3


### MORNING SESSION 4


### 9:05 a.m. 5 

### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: you guys are part 6 

### of the lucky group. We have hearing today and 7 

### tomorrow. Tomorrow there’s supposed to be a 8 

### blizzard. So we’re hopeful that that’s going to 9 

### go forward, but we have people lined up 10 

### throughout the day today until 8:00 this evening, 11 

### and then we go until five tomorrow. 12

### This, of course, is the hearing on the 13 

### federal plan, the proposed federal plan, and the 14


### model rules for the Clean Power Plan. I stress 15 

### to you how important the public hearings are to 16 

### our process. When we proposed the Clean Power 17 

### Plan, we ended up getting four million comments 18 

### on that proposal. And in fact, we had a 19 

### listening session, and did quite a bit of 20 

### outreach before we proposed the rule. The point 21 

### being here is the contributions that you all make 2210

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### and that the public has engaged with us in 1 

### helping us in the effort has really been a key 2 

### part to getting us where we are today. So we 3 

### really appreciate you all coming out today and 4 

### giving us your input, your thought on this next 5 

### step in this process. I thank you for that. 6 

### I’m going to just turn it over to Jenny 7 

### Noonan. Jenny is our moderator, our facilitator 8 

### for the day, and she’s going to walk you through 9 

### the day’s events and take it from here. 10

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you, Shawn. 11

### We’re going to have the microphones on in 12 

### just a minute, but we didn’t want to delay 13 

### things, so we’re just going to -– 14

### Can everyone hear me? 15

### Okay. Great. 16

### So good morning. I’m Jenny Noonan, and I 17 

### am the chair of today’s public hearing, and thank 18 

### you for coming. Joining me on the panel today 19 

### are Cate Hight and Laura Farris. 20

### And I’m going to give a brief summary of 21 

### the action that has been proposed. It’s actually 2211

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### -– it’s brief-ish. So please bear with me, and I 1 

### hope that it will be helpful. If you would like 2 

### additional information, there are fact sheets out 3


### on the table out here. 4 

### Fossil fuel-fired power plants are 5 

### the largest source of US carbon dioxide 6 

### emissions, or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 7 

### percent of US total greenhouse gas emissions. 8 

### Reducing carbon pollution from power plants is an 9 

### essential step in lessening the impacts of 10 

### climate change, and providing a more certain 11 

### future for our environment, our health, and 12 

### future generations. 13 

### We are here today to listen to your 14 

### comments on EPA's proposed federal plan and model 15 

### rules to implement the Clean Power Plan for 16 

### existing power plants. 17 

### On October 23 the US Environmental 18 

### Protection Agency published in the Federal 19 

### Register its proposed federal plan to implement 20 

### emission guidelines for power plants under 21 

### section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. EPA's 2212

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### 111(d) rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 1 

### effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 2 

### affected power plants that began construction on 3 

### or before January 8, 2014. 4 

### The federal plan and model trading rules 5 

### demonstrate a readily-available path forward for 6 

### Clean Power Plan implementation and present 7 

### flexible, affordable implementation options for 8


### states. 9 

### The model rules provide a cost-effective 10 

### pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 11 

### the EPA, and make it easy for states and power 12 

### plants to use emission trading. It does the 13 

### heavy lifting for states who may choose a model 14 

### rule as their state plan. EPA would implement 15 

### the federal plan in any state that does not 16 

### submit an approvable plan. 17 

### This proposal includes four discrete 18 

### proposed actions: One, a rate-based federal plan 19 

### for each state with affected electric generating 20 

### units, or EGUs; two, a mass-based federal plan 21 

### for each state with affected EGUs; three, a rate- 2213

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### based model trading rule for potential use by any 1 

### state; and, four, a mass-based model trading rule 2 

### for potential use by any state. 3 

### The proposed federal plans will achieve 4 

### the same level of emission performance as 5 

### required of state plans under the Clean Power 6 

### Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 7 

### those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 8 

### determines have failed to submit an approvable 9 

### 111(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 10 

### in the emission guidelines. 11 

### In those states where a federal plan may 12 

### be required, a final federal plan will implement 13 

### the same emission guidelines for affected power 14 

### plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 15 

### would not require additional control 16 

### requirements, or impose additional costs. 17 

### Even where a federal plan is put in place 18 

### for a particular state, that state will still be 19 

### able to submit a plan, which, if approved, will 20 

### allow the state and its sources to exit the 21 

### federal plan. 2214

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### The state may take delegation of 1 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 2 

### order to become the primary implementers, or 3 

### submit partial state plans in order to take over 4 

### the implementation of a portion of the federal 5 

### plan. 6 

### States operating under a federal plan may 7 

### adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 8 

### to facilitate compliance and lower the costs to 9 

### the benefit of power generators and consumers. 10 

### The proposal also includes a model rule 11 

### for those states that are developing their own 12 

### state plans. 13 

### EPA intends to finalize both the rate14 

### based and mass-based model trading rules in the 15 

### summer 2016. A state program that adheres to the 16 

### model trading rule provisions specified in this 17 

### rulemaking, when final, would be presumptively 18 

### approvable. 19

### There we go. Can everyone hear me better? 20

### There are stand-alone portions of the 21 

### model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 2215

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### measurement, and verification procedures for 1 

### emission rate credits, or ERCs, that would be 2 

### approvable even if a state adopted an approach 3 

### that differs in other respects from the model 4


### rule. 5 

### In addition, the proposal contains a 6 

### finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 7 

### implement a section 111(d) federal plan for the 8 

### affected EGUs located in Indian country. C02 9 

### emission performance rates for these facilities 10 

### were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. 11 

### Information on how the EPA will reach out to 12 

### communities throughout the comment period; and an 13 

### overview of the actions that EPA is taking to 14 

### ensure that vulnerable communities are not being 15 

### disproportionately impacted by this rulemaking is 16 

### also included in this proposal. 17 

### If you would like more details on the 18 

### proposed rule, as I mentioned, there are fact 19 

### sheets available at the registration desk and 20 

### right out here in the hallway. 21 

### Before we get started, I'd like to run 2216

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### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 1 

### that will help make today's hearing run smoothly. 2 

### First, make sure you have checked in at the 3 

### registration desk, even if you are not planning 4 

### to speak today. And if you signed up to speak 5 

### online or by phone, but haven't told us that 6 

### you're here, please step out to the registration 7 

### desk and let the EPA staff know that you’ve 8 

### arrived. 9 

### I will be calling the speakers up in 10 

### pairs. When your name is called, please come to 11 

### the speakers' table at the front of the room. 12 

### When I call on you to speak, please state your 13 

### name and spell it for the court reporter. Your 14 

### comments will be transcribed and included in the 15 

### record of comments on the proposed rule. 16 

### Each speaker will have five minutes to 17 

### give comments. We have a timer light to help you 18 

### know how much time you have left to speak. When 19 

### the light turns from green to yellow, that means 20 

### you have one minute remaining. When it turns to 21 

### red, that's a signal that you are at five minutes 2217

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### and it’s time to stop. When you are finished 1 

### speaking, please remain at the table until the 2 

### person next to you has completed his or her 3 

### testimony. 4 

### Let me just say that again. 5 

### When you’re done testifying, wait until 6 

### the second person is done, and then you both may 7


### go. 8 

### We are here to listen to you today. 9 

### However, a panel member may ask clarifying 10 

### questions. I will then call up the next pair of 11 

### speakers, and so on. 12 

### If you have brought a written copy of 13 

### your testimony, please give it the court 14 

### reporter, or the staff at the registration desk 15 

### before you leave today. We will put any written 16 

### comments submitted today into the official docket 17 

### for the proposed rule. 18 

### We will also have comment cards available 19 

### at the registration desk, if you would like to 20 

### submit additional written comments today. If you 21 

### want to comment in writing later, stop by the 2218

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### materials table near the registration desk and 1 

### pick up a copy of the instructions for submitting 2 

### written comments. Comments must be received by 3 

### January 21, 2016. 4 

### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 5 

### much consideration to comments we receive in 6 

### writing as we do to comments received in public 7 

### hearings such as this one. So if you have more 8 

### comments that you would like to provide the EPA, 9 

### please submit them by the comment period 10 

### deadline. Your comments will be reviewed. 11 

### If you have any questions during the day, 12 

### please see the staff at the registration desk, 13 

### and someone will assist you. 14 

### Thank you again for taking the time to 15 

### come today to share your comments on EPA’s 16 

### proposal. Let's get started. 17 

### Our first pair of speakers today will be 18 

### Steve Tomac and David Ellenberger. 19 

### MR. TOMAC: I was a little bit surprised, 20 

### because the lady at the front desk –- I was 21 

### originally scheduled at 3:45; and she said, 2219

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### “Would you like to go earlier?” 1 

### MS. NOONAN: And you did. That’s 2 

### fantastic. 3 

### MR. TOMAC: It is. So thank you for the 4 

### explanation this morning. Thank you for the 5 

### opportunity to provide comment on the proposed 6 

### federal plan and model rule. My name is Steve 7 

### Tomac, and I am providing comment today on behalf 8 

### of Basin Electric Power Cooperative. 9 

### Basin Electric is a generation and 10 

### transmission cooperative based in Bismarck, North 11 

### Dakota. We serve more than 2.9 million consumers 12 

### through the 138 rural electric co-ops across the 13 

### United States. By the end of this year, Basin 14 

### Electric will have approximately 5,700 megawatts 15 

### of generation capacity, of which approximately 55 16 

### percent is coal, 18 percent is natural gas, and 17 

### 17 percent is wind. 77 percent of the net 18 

### generation, as opposed to capacity, continues to 19


### come from our baseload of coal resources because 20 

### they are the lowest cost and most reliable. 21 

### Basin Electric currently projects approximately 2220

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### 2,800 megawatts of load growth in its service 1 

### territory, 2,800 megawatts of growth in its 2 

### service territory over the next 20 years. Much 3 

### of this projected growth comes from the 4 

### development of domestic oil and natural gas, and 5 

### from a growing agricultural production industry. 6 

### Basin Electric has recently filed a 7 

### petition for review with the DC Circuit Court of 8 

### Appeals challenging the legality of the final 9 

### Clean Power Plan because we believe that EPA 10 

### exceeded its authority in issuing the Clean Power 11 

### Plan. We, by extension, believe that any federal 12 

### implementation plan or model rule that implements 13 

### the Clean Power Plan is also beyond EPA’s 14 

### authority. This, however, is for the courts to 15 

### decide. 16 

### In the meantime, Basin Electric would 17 

### like to continue its longstanding engagement with 18 

### the EPA regarding the best ways to reduce CO2. 19 

### Our comments today ask EPA to make three major 20 

### changes in the final federal plan and model rule. 21 

### First, EPA should change the final plan 2221

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### to provide additional flexibility to fully 1 

### consider the factors that Section 111 requires 2 

### when setting performance standards for existing 3 

### sources. These include considering a source’s 4 

### remaining useful life; two, the cost of achieving 5 

### such reduction; and, three, energy requirements. 6 

### Consideration of remaining useful life is 7 

### especially important to Basin Electric. Basin 8 

### Electric has recently spent hundreds of millions 9 

### of dollars for pollution controls for compliance 10 

### with regional haze and other emission control 11 

### requirements. We did this because EPA and the 12 

### states determined that those controls were cost13 

### effective based upon consideration of their 14 

### remaining useful lives, among other factors. Now 15 

### EPA is curtailing those useful lives even before 16 

### the investments of those emission controls have 17 

### been fully implemented. This is bad policy, bad 18 

### precedent, and contrary to the plain language of 19 

### Section 111. 20 

### Further, Section 111 allows states, and 21 

### in the case of a federal plan requires EPA to 2222

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### consider energy requirements in setting source1 

### specific standards. But nothing in the proposed 2 

### model rule will allow North Dakota, for example, 3 

### to consider the unprecedented load growth in 4 

### setting source-specific performance standards for 5 

### existing generation; and nothing in the federal 6 

### plan addresses such load growth. Again, this is 7 

### inconsistent with the plain language of Section 8


### 111. 9 

### Second, EPA has created an impossible 10 

### dilemma for energy and electricity exporting 11 

### states such as North Dakota and Wyoming by not 12 

### creating a single standard under which rate and 13 

### mass are interchangeable. The rule is unworkable 14 

### because, without a common currency where 15 

### allowances and emission reduction credits can be 16 

### traded on a common basis, EPA’s dual standard is 17 

### arbitrary and capricious. And there is nothing 18 

### in Section 111 that allows EPA to set a dual 19


### standard. 20 

### EPA can go a long way towards correcting 21 

### this false dilemma either by creating a formula 2223

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### or algorithm where rate or mass can be traded 1 

### interchangeably, or by allowing states the 2 

### discretion and authority to create an equivalent 3 

### formula. Further, EPA should allow a rate-based 4 

### backstop to state measure’s approach for our 5 

### load-growth such as North Dakota to consider. 6 

### Finally, neither the model rule nor a 7 

### federal plan should be limited to a single 8 

### compliance mechanism, either mass or rate. Basin 9 

### Electric is a multistate utility with generation 10 

### resources in four states. We are already 11 

### anticipating having to deal with multiple 12 

### compliance regimes under the Clean Power Plan. 13 

### If a federal plan were imposed in just one of our 14 

### states, it could dramatically alter how we serve 15 

### electricity to our in-use consumers in other 16 

### states, and result in unequal treatment and 17 

### higher electricity bills. This creates a false 18 

### dilemma that rewards states that import the bulk 19 

### of their electricity at the expense of consumers 20 

### in states that are not electricity exporters. 21 

### MS. NOONAN: Mr. Tomac, thank you. 2224

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### MR. TOMAC: Thank you again. 1 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. I actually have 2 

### a question for you. If you have any more 3 

### thoughts about the formula that you were talking 4 

### about, the rates and mass are interchangeable, 5 

### any thoughts that Basin Electric might have about 6 

### what that formula would look like, we would 7 

### appreciate comments about that. 8 

### MR. TOMAC: You know, we will be 9 

### submitting a longer version of this in a final 10 

### written comments. Will that be sufficient? 11 

### MS. NOONAN: That looks great. Thank 12



### you. 13 

### MR. TOMAC: Thank you. 14 

### MR. ELLENBERGER: Thank you for the 15 

### opportunity to submit formal testimony regarding 16 

### the EPA’s proposed Clean Power Plan. I commend 17 

### Administrator McCarthy and the EPA for conducting 18 

### these public hearings today. 19 

### MS. NOONAN: Can you spell your last 20


### name? 21 

### MR. ELLENBERGER: Yes. I am David 2225

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### Ellenberger, E-L-L-E-N-B-E-R-G-E-R. I’m a 1 

### Regional Outreach Campaigns Manager, Regional 2 

### Representative for the Colorado and Nebraska 3 

### affiliates of the National Wildlife Federation 4 

### here in Denver. 5 

### We are a national organization with more 6 

### than six million members and supporters, many of 7 

### which are wildlife enthusiasts, wildlife 8 

### watchers, hunters, anglers, hikers, gardeners, 9 

### teachers, and general nature enthusiasts. We’re 10 

### also a Federation family of 49 independent state 11 

### affiliate organizations. And for nearly 80 years 12 

### National Wildlife Federation has been a strong 13 

### voice for wildlife conservation in the United 14


### States. 15 

### Today I’d like to express my strong 16 

### support for EPA’s historic action to combat 17 

### climate change by setting limits on carbon 18 

### pollution from existing power plants. I believe 19 

### we have an obligation to protect our children and 20 

### future generations from the impacts of climate 21 

### change. We also have an obligation to protect 2226

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### wildlife and our natural resources, upon which we 1 

### all depend, that are on the front lines of our 2 

### changing climate. 3 

### Our warming climate is posing one of the 4 

### greatest threats to wildlife today. And as a 5 

### wildlife enthusiast and advocate, I’d like to 6 

### thank the EPA for taking decisive action to 7 

### combat the root of the problem, which is carbon 8 

### pollution. 9 

### Colorado’s average annual temperatures 10 

### have increased two degrees Fahrenheit over the 11 

### last 30 years, and two and a half degrees 12 

### Fahrenheit over the past 50 years. These 13 

### climatic changes have already begun to have 14 

### devastating impacts on our state in the form of 15 

### drought, forest fires, flooding, extreme weather 16 

### impacts. 17

### Nationally, coal-fired power plants 18 

### account for about a third of the carbon pollution 19 

### that’s contributing to climate change. I have 20 

### personally witnessed the damage of extreme 21 

### weather fueled by climate change here in Colorado 2227

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### from our beetle-ravaged forest lands to the 1 

### destructive and more frequent intense wildfires 2 

### that have swept across our state in recent years. 3 

### I commend and strongly support this 4 

### administration’s bold climate initiative aiming 5 

### to aggressively begin reducing greenhouse gas 6 

### reductions to levels scientists tell us we must. 7 

### Thanks to our past history of working together to 8 

### tackle air quality issues, Colorado is well9 

### positioned to meet our 38 percent carbon 10 

### reduction goals, and can move quickly on this. 11 

### The US EPA’s Clean Power Plan is a major 12 

### step in the right direction and provides both 13 

### clear standards of performance for limiting 14 

### carbon pollution, and provides states with 15 

### tremendous flexibility to achieve those 16 

### standards. This plan will help speed the way 17 

### towards a future in which we invest in more 18 

### wildlife-friendly sources of clean energy, and 19 

### less in fuels that pollute our air and water and 20 

### will harm our global climate. 21 

### By reducing the reliance on coal burning 2228

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### for power generation in the US, the Clean Power 1 

### Plan will protect wildlife, not only by reducing 2 

### carbon pollution, but also other harmful 3 

### pollutants like mercury that poison fish and 4


### threaten all those who eat them. 5 

### The Clean Power Plan will reduce the need 6 

### for more coal mining that’s destroying a lot of 7 

### our precious wildlife habitat; and it will reduce 8 

### the number of leaking toxic coal waste ponds that 9 

### put our lakes and rivers in harm’s way. 10 

### For states that do not create their own 11 

### plans to cut carbon pollution from power plants, 12 

### we commend the EPA for creating this backstop 13 

### federal guarantee for reducing carbon pollution 14 

### and protecting wildlife. The federal plan should 15 

### be strong and aimed at protecting people and 16 

### wildlife from power plant carbon pollution in 17 

### order to ensure proper pollution reductions and 18 

### to encourage wildlife-friendly renewable energy 19 

### solutions. 20 

### The proposed plan should be finalized in 21 

### a timely manner so that states have the time to 2229

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### use it to guide the formulation of their own 1 

### plans. 2 

### Thank you for the opportunity to comment 3 

### today. We look forward to working with you to 4 

### finalize and implement the Clean Power Plan. We 5 

### hope you will do everything you can to ensure it 6 

### stays strong through this process. Wildlife and 7 

### future generations are counting on your 8 

### leadership. 9 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 10 

### Up next, Laura Comer and James Luidl. 11

### And just on deck, the next two speakers 12 

### will be Jeff Cappella and John Morris. 13

### Is Ms. Comer in the room? Laura Comer? 14

### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: She is probably 15 

### outside at the table. 16

### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Is Mr. Cappella here? 17

### She’s coming. Okay. 18

### You can go. 19

### MR. LUIDL: Good day, and welcome back. 20

### My name is James Luidl. The last name is 21 

### spelled L-U-I-D-L. I live in the City of Castle 2230

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### Rock here in Colorado. I’m also a member of the 1 

### Rocky Mountain Chapter of the Sierra Club here in 2 

### Colorado, as well as a five-year member of the 3 

### Colorado Trail Foundation that maintains the 4 

### Colorado Trail from Denver to Durango. 5 

### I’d like to thank the EPA for this 6 

### opportunity to speak on behalf of the Clean Power 7 

### Plan, the recently proposed federal 8 

### implementation plan. It’s with great pride that 9 

### I witnessed last year the Obama Administration 10 

### and EPA approve the Clean Power Plan. The 11 

### national standards set by the CPP are an 12 

### important step in the right direction in order to 13 

### protect our air, water, climate, and health of 14 

### our communities. 15

### Many concerned citizens stood up last 16 

### year at the first four hearings and made their 17 

### preference known loud and clear that controlling 18 

### the amount of carbon and other pollutants coming 19 

### from fossil fuel power plants is a high priority. 20

### This next step is just as important. 21 

### Every step has their own unique set of 2231

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### circumstances as they work to develop the plan to 1


### meet the standards of the Clean Power Plan. 2 

### Accepting that, it is important that the 3 

### administration and EPA take a strong stand to 4 

### ensure states are not allowed to continually 5 

### delay or diminish the standards of the plan. 6 

### The energy industry has for over a 7 

### century been able to make their profits without 8 

### concerning themselves with the consequences of 9 

### their activity, dumping unlimited amounts of 10 

### carbon into the air that are linked to life11 

### threatening illnesses, asthma, mercury poisoning 12 

### of the water and the fish and marine life we eat. 13

### Here in Colorado I have watched the creep 14 

### of pollution slowly innovate my community. Five 15 

### years ago Castle Rock, which lies 30 miles south 16 

### of Denver, did not have smog pollution. I cannot 17 

### say that today. As an avid backpacker and a 18 

### member of the Colorado Trail Foundation, I have 19 

### seen the effects climate change has on our 20 

### forests with millions of trails killed by drought 21 

### and insects. 2232

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### The EPA must remain vigilant in its duty 1 

### to ensure the law is implemented to the letter, 2 

### and, in spirit, to ensure the carbon pollution 3 

### standards are met in a timely fashion, to ensure 4 

### that states are meeting those standards as new 5 

### power sources are brought on line, to make sure 6 

### that those people who are economically 7 

### disadvantaged have affordable access to clean, 8 

### efficient energy, and to make sure that states 9 

### are not allowed to trade away their 10 

### responsibility to adhere to the rules of the 11


### Clean Power Plan. 12

### It is critical that the EPA issue a 13 

### federal implementation plan to states who refuse 14 

### to comply with the Clean Power Plan. CPP’s goals 15 

### are to stabilize and protect the planet from the 16 

### effects of climate change. What could be more 17 

### important than that? 18

### Thank you. 19

### MS. COMER: Hi. My name is Laura Comer, 20 

### L-A-U-R-A, Comer, C-O-M-E-R. I’m with the Sierra 21 

### Club. So I currently live in Alaska, where I 2233

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### work really closely with indigenous communities 1 

### in coastal villages where we are seeing firsthand 2 

### the impact of carbon pollution as our permafrost 3 

### melts and communities are going into the sea. 4 

### We would like to see the federal 5 

### implementation plan strengthened. For this draft 6 

### model plan to be strong and just, it needs to 7 

### ensure that carbon pollution standards in that 8 

### model plan, which would be what communities like 9 

### Alaska, being without the rules currently – we 10 

### don’t have numbers yet. We’re really looking to 11 

### the federal plan to kind of decide where, as a 12 

### state, we move forward; and that carbon pollution 13 

### standard in that plan needs to achieve the 14 

### reductions promised in the final Clean Power 15 

### Plan, or even better. This model plan is going 16 

### to be asked as the example that states like mine 17 

### look to when creating our plans. 18

### The second thing we need to see is that 19 

### we need to ensure that states address potential 20 

### carbon pollution from new power plants to achieve 21 

### overall electric section reductions in carbon 2234

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### pollution. 1 

### I live in a state where they’re looking 2 

### to build new coal-fired power plants on or near 3 

### communities of color, low-income communities, and 4 

### rural communities. For our safety, it would be 5 

### out of place for that to be considered. It makes 6 

### me really nervous. 7 

### Third, protect low-income consumers by 8 

### maximizing utilities’ incentives to invest in 9 

### electric efficiency and energy efficiency, which 10 

### lowers our energy bills. That’s most critical to 11 

### states like mine where the cost of rising fossil 12 

### fuels falls 100 percent really on rural 13 

### communities that are off of the road system. We 14 

### need to make sure that the clean energy 15 

### implementation programs are there to support 16 

### rural communities where I live. 17

### And finally, please resist giveaways of 18 

### allowances to the most-polluting sources. This 19 

### model plan needs to protect and benefit minority, 20 

### low-income, and indigenous communities that have 21 

### long borne the brunt of fossil fuel pollution and 2235

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### would be the most likely to experience impacts of 1 

### climate change. 2 

### I moved to Alaska from New Mexico where I 3 

### was a teacher in the Four Corners. We could 4 

### see -- you know, there’s four coal-powered power 5 

### plants that I could see from my classroom. I 6 

### couldn’t do my job as an educator when my kids 7 

### couldn’t come to school because of asthma, when 8 

### my kids couldn’t come to school because a parent 9 

### was ill and someone had to stay at home to watch 10 

### the kids. 11

### This power plan is exactly what we need, 12 

### and it’s coming far too late. So do not hesitate 13 

### to make this as strong as the communities need it 14 

### to be to protect vulnerable lives. 15

### Thank you. 16

### MS. NOONAN: Mr. Jeff Cappella and 17 

### Mr. John Morris. 18


### And on deck we’ll have Jake Black and Tom 19


### Plant. 20

### MR. CAPPELLA: Good morning. My name is 21 

### Jeff Cappella; first name Jeff, J-E-F-F. Last 2236

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### name C-A-P-P-E-L-L-A. 1 

### I am here today representing the Western 2 

### Clean Energy Campaign. This is a campaign that 3 

### is a nonprofit, nonpartisan network of 4 

### organizations and individuals in the Western US 5 

### that are working to advance clean energy 6 

### generation for the electric system. I live in 7 

### Denver, and I’m a parent of two high-schoolers. 8 

### My daughter asked me once if the world will be a 9 

### good place to live in when she’s my age, and I 10 

### told her that we need to make sure it is. 11

### So first a thank you to the Environmental 12 

### Protection Agency for finalizing the Clean Power 13 

### Plan that provides clear standards for limiting 14 

### carbon pollution from power plants. And thank 15 

### you too for the tremendous flexibility for states 16 

### on how to go about achieving these standards. 17

### As you are likely aware, in Colorado 18 

### Governor Hickenlooper and the Colorado Department 19 

### of Public Health and Environment have 20 

### demonstrated their commitment to a public and 21 

### transparent process to develop a state plan to 2237

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### cut carbon pollution; and elected officials from 1 

### both sides of the aisle and across Colorado have 2 

### said that Colorado will submit a state plan. The 3 

### Western Clean Energy Campaign will be working 4 

### closely with the state and other stakeholders and 5 

### communities to make a plan that works for 6 

### Coloradans that works for our economy. 7 

### What’s particularly important now is that 8 

### we are able to move forward without delay. So we 9 

### ask EPA to please continue with the extensive 10 

### support it has provided states, and finalize the 11 

### model framework quickly. We feel that it will be 12 

### an important tool to have states develop plans 13 

### thoughtfully, and also efficiently, and ensuring 14 

### environmental integrity. 15

### With the nuts and bolts provided in these 16 

### models from EPA, states will be able to focus on 17 

### the unique components of their state 18 

### implementation efforts that are most important to 19 

### their stakeholders. Simply put, it will expedite 20 

### the process. 21

### We also want to commend EPA’s inclusion 2238

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### of the proposed Clean Energy Incentive Program. 1 

### The Western Clean Energy Campaign believes it is 2 

### essential that incentives for early action to 3 

### reduce carbon pollution before 2022 are finalized 4 

### quickly so that states and project developers can 5 

### begin planning to take advantage of this 6 

### opportunity. 7 

### We want to encourage EPA to do three 8 

### things with regard to the Clean Energy Incentive 9 

### Program: One, be specific when it lays out the 10 

### definition of low-income energy efficiency in 11 

### order to ensure that low-income communities will 12 

### truly benefit; two, support authentic community 13 

### engagement in the CEIT design process at both the 14 

### federal and state level; and, three, provide the 15 

### technical guidance that will be needed in order 16 

### to ensure that the Clean Energy Incentive Program 17 

### is properly targeted and fully capitalized on to 18 

### benefit low-income communities. 19

### We support EPA’s commitment to design the 20 

### Clean Energy Incentive Program to encourage 21 

### additional carbon pollution reductions and not in 2239

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### a way that would end up reducing the overall 1 

### program’s stringency. 2 

### In summary, states like Colorado, and 3 

### others as well, are ready to make plans and will 4 

### be well-served by both the Clean Energy Incentive 5 

### Program and EPA’s model frameworks. We encourage 6 

### EPA to act swiftly to finalize this guidance to 7 

### ensure that real and tangible carbon reductions 8 

### are realized, and to support clean energy and 9 

### energy efficiency benefits for low-income 10 

### communities. 11

### Thank you. 12

### MS. NOONAN: If I could just ask one 13 

### question, if there things that you could add to 14 

### the record about your group’s thoughts about 15 

### transparency and definitions of low income, that 16 

### would be tremendously helpful. 17

### MR. CAPPELLA: Thank you. Yeah. We’ll 18 

### be submitting some comment in writing to address 19


### that. 20

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 21


### MR. CAPPELLA: Thanks. 2240

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### MR. MORRIS: Thank you EPA for finalizing 1 

### carbon pollution limits and promoting clear 2 

### standards of performance for limiting carbon. 3 

### MS. NOONAN: Mr. Morris, could you hold 4 

### it a little closer and – 5 

### MR. MORRIS: My name is John Morris, 6 

### J-O-H-N M-O-R-R-I-S. I am a retired economics 7 

### professor, a member of the Sierra Club, and a 8 

### grandparent. 9 

### I’m really glad to see we’re finally 10 

### getting rules that will eventually clean the air 11 

### and limit utility contributions to climate 12 

### change. I appreciate the flexibility that’s 13 

### built into the plan, the Clean Power Plan. I 14 

### realize some would like even more flexibility. 15 

### Some will always like even more flexibility, 16 

### regardless of the plan. 17

### It seems to me that the main objections 18 

### to the Clean Power Plan really relate to 19 

### protecting the dying coal industry. They lost 20 

### the railroad market a lifetime ago to 21 

### technological change. Now they’re losing the 2241

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### electrical market to technological change as 1 

### renewable sources of power become ever cheaper. 2 

### By 2030 coal will be totally obsolete in power 3 

### production. The Clean Power Plan only 4 

### accelerates the change. 5 

### There will be losers, of course, even 6 

### before the obvious gains from climate change or 7 

### health. The states like Kansas, South Dakota, 8 

### Colorado, even North Dakota, should see gains 9 

### from the change as they move into production of 10 

### renewable power. Everything I have read suggests 11 

### that renewable power takes more jobs per megawatt 12 

### of electricity than coal does; and I would hope 13 

### that people would embrace the future, rather than 14 

### fearing it. 15

### Thank you. 16

### MS. NOONAN: up next we have Mr. Jake 17 

### Black and Mr. Tom Plant, please. 18

### MR. BLACK: I guess I’m up first. 19

### Thank you guys for taking action to cut 20 

### carbon pollution from power plants. The Clean 21 

### Power Plan is -– 2242

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### MS. NOONAN: I’m sorry. Can you spell 1 

### your name? 2 

### MR. BLACK: Oh, yeah. I’m sorry. It’s 3 

### Jake Black, J-A-K-E B-L-A-C-K, just like the 4


### color. 5 

### Okay. Thank you guys for taking time. 6 

### You know, it’s a truly historic step forward, 7 

### since power plants are already the largest source 8 

### of carbon pollution. 9 

### My name’s Jake Black, and I’m a 10 

### professional snowboarder from Breckinridge, 11 

### Colorado, which is just over the hillside here. 12 

### I have also recently completed my degree in 13 

### sustainable studies at Colorado Mountain College, 14 

### and I work with an organization to protect our 15 

### winters to create a unified voice for the ski 16 

### industry towards climate change to protect it. 17

### So the reason I’m here today, like many 18 

### others, is to show my support for the Clean Power 19 

### Plan, and to urge state-based implementation. As 20 

### an athlete that spends much of my time in the 21 

### mountains, I’ve seen how climate change has 2243

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### already impacted the places where I live and 1 

### work. Shorter, more inconsistent winters, severe 2 

### droughts, larger temperature swings, less spring 3 

### runoff, and wildfires are just a few of the 4 

### examples we’ve already seen right here; and the 5 

### future predictions are far worse. Being born and 6 

### raised in Summit County, over my lifetime I’ve 7 

### not only seen winter change, but every season. 8 

### We are all concerned about what our tourist9 

### dependent mountain communities will look like in 10 

### my children’s lifetime. It is our responsibility 11 

### to do whatever we can to prevent the worst 12 

### effects of climate change for the next generation 13 

### to live as well, if not better, than we do now. 14

### Winter tourism in Colorado drives $2.2 15 

### billion in revenue, and supports 38,000 jobs. To 16 

### all of us Coloradans, especially those in our 17 

### mountain communities, the loss of winter is a 18 

### very serious business. In 2013, 39 million 19 

### metric tons of carbon pollution were emitted from 20 

### power plants in Colorado, equal to the yearly 21 

### pollution from over eight million cars. Air 2244

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### pollution from Colorado coal-fired power plants 1 

### already contributed to 53 deaths, 81 heart 2 

### attacks, more than a thousand asthma attacks, and 3 

### over $400 million in health costs every year. 4 

### However, there is good news. We know 5 

### what the problem is, and we already have a real 6 

### feasible solution. The big part of that solution 7 

### is the Clean Power Plan. I urge the EPA to build 8 

### a strong framework for a pollution-reduction 9 

### program that boasts development of clean, 10 

### renewable energy, energy efficiency, and that 11 

### minimizes the need for new power plants fueled by 12 

### natural gas in every state. 13

### Letting states develop their own carbon 14 

### reduction methods or partnering with neighboring 15 

### states to develop plans will create thousands of 16 

### good, clean, long-term jobs for American people; 17 

### and these people will make our electricity system 18 

### cleaner, in turn, making our homes and businesses 19 

### more energy efficient, thus perpetuating a 20 

### virtuous cycle towards a brighter future for 21 

### generations to come. 2245

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### The EPA’s guidelines will create the 1 

### right foundation to also cut other forms of air 2 

### pollution, which will provide significant health 3 

### benefits for people across the country. 4 

### Colorado’s already a leader in clean 5 

### energy innovation, and an example for other 6 

### states looking to build on its success. The 7 

### Clean Power Plan will help speed up that 8 

### necessary trend. In this state there are more 9 

### than 300 solar companies, and 11,200 people 10 

### employed in the wind and solar industries. Every 11 

### year these jobs grow. Colorado is already well12 

### positioned to comply with the Clean Power Plan. 13

### An overwhelming majority of governors, 14 

### including our own Governor Hickenlooper, have 15 

### already recognized how the Clean Power Plan can 16 

### improve their economies and help clean up their 17 

### environment. Many governors are already 18 

### preparing plans to meet the target reductions. 19

### For example, our state already has a goal 20 

### to generate 30 percent of our electricity from 21 

### renewable energy resources by 2020, and an 2246

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### additional goal of 10 to 20 percent renewables 1 

### for municipal utilities and electricity 2 

### cooperatives. Colorado also plans to cut 3 

### electricity consumption five percent below 2006 4 

### sales by 2018. This is the future my generation 5 

### and I want to see. I’m proud that Colorado has 6 

### taken such a leadership role. We need a strong 7 

### Clean Power Plan to help push every state to do 8 

### the same, if not better. 9 

### The Clean Power Plan presents states with 10 

### a tremendous opportunity to lead in clean energy 11 

### development while cutting electricity bills, 12 

### protecting public health, and saving lives by 13 

### reducing carbon pollution. States should seize 14 

### the opportunity to reduce the dangerous carbon 15 

### pollution now, for now is the time to drive the 16 

### transition to a clean energy future that creates 17 

### jobs, improves our health, and safeguards our 18 

### future. The most effective way to do that is to 19 

### let the states create their own plan, and to 20 

### reduce carbon pollution in the most cost21 

### effective way, not ignoring the law and leaving 2247

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### it to you guys at the EPA. 1 

### While some in Congress have urged states 2 

### to defy the law, this will only serve to 3 

### dismantle lifesaving environmental protections 4 

### while placing the health and economic well-being 5 

### of all Coloradans at risk. Carbon pollution 6 

### knows no borders, and it is critical that these 7 

### rules are as strong as possible for every state 8 

### to comply with. 9 

### I come here as a representative of 10 

### Colorado and its snow sports community, for our 11 

### way of life as we know it is highly dependent on 12 

### these rules. I urge you to make them as strong 13 

### as possible so that our future is more prosperous 14 

### than ever. We can’t put the livelihoods of 15 

### 38,000 plus Coloradans and the economic future of 16 

### our state at risk. Too many small businesses and 17 

### careers depend on the winter season and the magic 18 

### it brings to our communities, for these are not 19 

### just people. They are my friends and family who 20 

### are here trying to create better, more fulfilling 21 

### lives for themselves, not struggle to make ends 2248

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### meet. 1 

### Letting our own state lay out a sensible 2 

### and aggressive strategy to address carbon action 3 

### is the most logical plan to successful 4 

### implementation in the future. As the EPA 5 

### finalizes the last steps of the Clean Power Plan, 6 

### it is important for it to maintain the strongest 7 

### approach possible to ensure every state achieves 8 

### the necessary reductions in carbon pollution. 9 

### Thanks for your time. 10

### MR. PLANT: Thanks. My name is Tom 11 

### Plant, P-L-A-N-T, and I’m here representing 12 

### Advanced Energy Economy. 13

### As a business association representing 14 

### technologies and services that make the energy we 15 

### use more secure, clean, and affordable, AEE 16 

### encompasses a wide array of businesses providing 17 

### products and services that enable low-cost, 18 

### reliable compliance under the Clean Power Plan. 19 

### These measures include wind, solar, hydropower, 20 

### geothermal, nuclear, combined heat and power 21 

### transmission, and distribution efficiency, and 2249

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### end-use energy efficiency. Using Advanced 1 

### Energy’s technologies and services for compliance 2 

### will improve reliability, reduce cost, and give 3 

### customers more energy choices. These investments 4 

### in a higher-performing electricity system will 5 

### also grow business, create jobs, and drive 6 

### economic growth. 7 

### AEE and its member companies see the 8 

### Clean Power Plan as an opportunity to modernize 9 

### the electric power system for the 21st

### Century; 10 

### and the EPA’s federal plan will ensure that this 11 

### opportunity is realized in every state across the 12 

### country. We’re very supportive of the flexible 13 

### approach taken by the EPA under both the rate14 

### based and the mass-based federal plan proposals 15 

### and model trading rules. We view trading as the 16 

### best way to achieve EPA’s targets. However, 17 

### there are several areas in which these proposals 18 

### can by improved to allow effective units to take 19 

### full advantage of the benefits of advanced 20


### energy. 21

### EPA should finalize -– first of all, EPA 2250

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### should finalize only one plan type, mass or rate, 1 

### in every state in which it implements a federal 2 

### plan. With certain key changes, AEE believes 3 

### that either plan type could facilitate the use of 4 

### advanced energy for flexible and cost-effective 5 

### compliance. However, in order to maximize the 6 

### benefits of interstate trading, EPA should ensure 7 

### that all federal plan states are under a single 8 

### plan type. 9 

### Secondly, EPA should ensure that all 10 

### advanced energy measures included in the final 11 

### rule are available to states under a federal 12 

### plan. This will keep compliance costs down, put 13 

### all states on an even playing field, and create a 14 

### consistent market for eligible compliance 15



### measures. 16

### As proposed, the rate-based federal plan 17 

### restricts emissions rate credits, ERCs, 18 

### eligibility to on-shore utility-scale wind, 19 

### utility-scale solar, photovoltaics, concentrated 20 

### solar power, geothermal power, utility-scale 21 

### hydropower, and new nuclear units, and capacity 2251

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### upgrades. The full suite of eligible measures 1 

### allowed in state plans should be available under 2 

### the federal plan including energy efficiency, 3 

### combined heat and power, transmission and 4 

### distribution efficiency, and distributed 5 

### generation. Including these measures in the 6 

### federal plan will keep costs down and ensure an 7 

### equitable and optimum outcome. This will allow 8 

### effective units to make use of the most cost9 

### effective resources, which are no-regrets 10 

### choices, even without the CPP. 11

### Under a mass-based federal plan, as 12 

### proposed, the allocation of allowances will limit 13 

### opportunities for Advanced Energy to compete in 14 

### the marketplace by providing windfall profits for 15 

### existing units, but no meaningful incentives for 16 

### Advanced Energy. 17

### The renewable energy set-aside gives a 18 

### very small portion of the total allowance of pie 19 

### to a fast-growing resource. As renewable 20 

### capacity continues to ramp up, the market 21 

### incentive from this set-aside will be further 2252

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### diluted. The set-asides ignore entire categories 1 

### of emission reduction measures, including some of 2 

### the most cost-effective options such as energy 3 

### efficiency, transmission and distribution 4 

### efficiencies, and combined heat and power. EPA 5 

### should include provisions for these measures to 6 

### earn allowances under the federal plan to ensure 7 

### that these measures will contribute meaningfully 8 

### to compliance. 9 

### More generally, the proposed allocation 10 

### scheme is flawed in that it disincentivezes 11 

### Advanced Energy and could lead to windfall 12 

### profits for some existing resources. 13

### Third, energy efficiency and other 14 

### behind-the-meter sources provide verifiable 15 

### emission reductions that can be efficiently 16 

### tracked and traded. One of the major challenges 17 

### raised by EPA is administering a program with 18 

### these resources; but there are efforts underway 19 

### that will address that challenge. 20

### AEE is supportive of the development of 21 

### the National Energy Efficiency Registry, a 2253

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### streamlined tool to track energy efficiency 1 

### savings for CPP compliance. This effort is being 2 

### led by officials in Tennessee, in conjunction 3 

### with officials in Georgia, Michigan, Minnesota, 4 

### Oregon, and Pennsylvania, along with the National 5 

### Association of State Energy Officials, NASEO, the 6 

### Department of Energy, and the Climate Registry, E 7 

### for the Future, and APX. 8 

### Finally, the Clean Energy Incentive 9 

### Program, CEIP, is intended to incent by early 10 

### action, but, as proposed, could actually suppress 11 

### demand for emission-reducing investments between 12 

### now and 2020. Key changes that we believe are 13 

### needed to ensure that the program fulfills its 14 

### goals are the dates should be moved forward both 15 

### for project eligibility and for the start of 16 

### credit generation. The current dates push 17 

### project eligibility back as far as 2018, and 18 

### don’t allow project to start generating credits 19 

### until 2020. These dates may leave utilities and 20 

### project developers to delay projects that would 21 

### otherwise happen between now and 2020. In 2254

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### addition, the CEIP should be expanded beyond 1 

### energy efficiency and low-energy communities, and 2 

### wind and solar. By excluding other advanced 3 

### energy technologies and by restricting energy 4 

### efficiency to low-income communities, the CEIP, 5 

### as proposed, misses an opportunity to make early 6 

### progress in these sectors. 7 

### Finally, I would suggest that, as the EPA 8 

### is looking at the definition of energy efficiency 9 

### as a demand-side resource, they really look at 10 

### the full suite of demand-side resources, 11 

### including those that would increase the 12 

### intelligence of demand-side systems to make them 13 

### more efficient. Demand-side generation, as well 14 

### as –- here in Colorado we have community solar 15 

### gardens, and shared solar is expanding across the 16 

### country. That can increase the efficiency of the 17 

### distribution side of the system, and that should 18 

### be included as a demand-side resource as well. 19

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 20

### MR. PLANT: Thank you. 21

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 2255

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### I think you had a couple of things we 1


### want -- 2


### MS. HIGHT: Sure. 3 

### Hi. I’m Cate Hight. I just wanted to 4 

### point out to everyone that on the Clean Energy 5 

### Incentive Program we have a number of stakeholder 6 

### calls scheduled to get feedback from the public 7 

### on the design of that program. The next one will 8 

### be scheduled for November 23in the evening, and 9 

### we have another November 30, and also December 1. 10 

### So check out our Clean Power Plan website for 11 

### more details on the call-in information on that. 12

### MR. PLANT: Thank you. 13

### MS. NOONAN: Mr. Black, we would like 14 

### your thoughts on that as well, especially for how 15 

### that plan could help communities that are 16 

### dependent on winter tourism. If there are 17 

### special things that we should be considering in 18 

### the CEIP, we would like your thoughts about that. 19

### MR. BLACK: Yeah. We’ll write something 20


### up. 21

### MS. NOONAN: Great. Thank you both. 2256

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### Up next we have Lauren Poole and Meg 1 

### Morris. 2 

### And then on deck Tyler Svitak and Curt 3


### Huber. 4 

### MS. POOLE: That’s Lauren –- do I speak 5 

### first? 6 

### MS. NOONAN: Go right ahead, and you can 7 

### just spell your –- 8 

### MS. POOLE: Can you hear me okay? 9 

### MS. NOONAN: Yes. You’re great. Thank 10



### you. 11


### MS. POOLE: So I’m Lauren Poole. I’m the 12 

### Executive Director of the Energy Efficiency 13 

### Business Coalition. We’re the central trade 14 

### organization for the energy efficiency industry 15 

### in Colorado. We have over 100 member companies 16 

### that represent a billion dollars in revenue 17 

### already for the state. Our members include 18 

### manufacturers, distributers, energy auditors, 19 

### home performance contractors, and commercial 20 

### energy service providers. We already work with 21 

### utilities like Excel Energy and municipalities on 2257

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### developing their energy-efficiency programs and 1 

### policies. Because of this, a lot of utilities 2 

### right now are already on track to meet over 85 3 

### percent of their emissions reductions with their 4 

### current demand-site management plans. 5 

### Despite these successes, significant 6 

### opportunities still exist in both the public and 7 

### the private sector for reducing energy 8 

### consumption and carbon emissions through 9 

### upgrading commercial buildings, hospitals, data 10 

### centers, warehouses, and homes with more 11 

### efficient insulation, windows. New window 12 

### coverings are on the market, high-efficiency 13 

### heating and cooling systems that are just now 14 

### starting to be tested by these utilities, and 15 

### Wi-Fi technologies. There’s a lot of 16 

### opportunities out there still in the energy17 

### efficiency realm. 18

### A lot of our members have systems in 19 

### place right now to measure the energy performance 20 

### of the demand-side management programs. They’re 21 

### doing it right now, and they’re offering their 2258

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### experience and expertise as a resource to the EPA 1 

### and the State of Colorado as you develop your 2 

### plan. So we do urge you to include energy3 

### efficiency programs and demand-side management, 4 

### even extend and expand the existing demand-side 5 

### management programs that are already out there, 6 

### especially in the rural areas. And we can help 7 

### with that. 8 

### So I think the benefits to Colorado is 9 

### you can save consumers millions of dollars; you 10 

### can reduce pollution; reduce millions of metric 11 

### tons of carbon emissions; and at the same time 12 

### create jobs not only in urban areas, but in rural 13 

### communities where there are a lot of homes out 14 

### there and commercial buildings that can be 15 

### upgraded. 16

### So thank you. 17

### MS. MORRIS: Hi. My name is Meg Morris, 18 

### M-E-G M-O-R-R-I-S. I am with the National 19 

### Wildlife Federation. 20

### Thank you for the opportunity to submit 21 

### formal comments in support of the Clean Power 2259

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### Plan. I have the privilege of working for the 1 

### National Wildlife Federation, but today I speak 2 

### to you as a citizen and as a mother. 3 

### I grew up on a mountaintop. Instead of 4 

### televisions, movie theaters, and amusement parks, 5 

### the outdoors was the place where my youthful mind 6 

### went to dream and grow. The value of 7 

### experiencing nature was invaluable. I carry with 8 

### me a deep love and debt to the natural world. I 9 

### also carry core values in forming my life today, 10 

### namely, a deep respect and appreciation for the 11 

### environment, humility, and responsibility. My 12 

### father always told me to make sure I leave a 13 

### place better than I found it. From small to big 14 

### life decisions I carry this with me, and I teach 15 

### my children to do the same. We take everyday, 16 

### small actions to minimize our impact on the 17 

### Earth. We walk. We take public transportation. 18 

### We recycle. We buy food and goods in the most 19 

### responsible ways we can. That is our 20 

### responsibility, to make sure we do everything we 21 

### can to protect future generations from the 2260

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### impacts of the lives we live today. 1 

### I also hope my children learn that they 2 

### live in a country where their government will 3 

### also fulfill its responsibility, the 4 

### responsibility to leave our country better than 5 

### they found it before accepting the profound 6 

### privilege to make decisions that will impact all 7 

### of us today and into the future. I can make 8 

### decisions for and with my children to fulfill 9 

### this obligation. 10

### Without clear, bold, and large 11 

### leadership, we cannot medicate the devastating 12 

### impacts of climate change. This is your 13 

### responsibility, and I believe the Clean Power 14 

### Plan provides the path forward to begin to honor 15 

### this responsibility. 16

### I have seen the impacts of climate change 17 

### in Colorado, whether dealing with extreme weather 18 

### events, drought, wildfires, or reading messages 19 

### appearing on television screens and highway 20 

### alerts warning that the air quality is so poor 21 

### that my children ought not play outside. This is 2261

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### how far we’ve come. My children live in a world 1 

### where they can’t play outside, because there are 2 

### days the air isn’t safe to breathe. Climate 3 

### action is no longer an option. It’s an 4 

### imperative. It’s our responsibility. It’s your 5 

### responsibility is to stop talking and start 6 

### doing. 7 

### The federal plan should be strong, 8 

### timely, and address the need to cut carbon 9 

### pollution swiftly and meaningfully. I commend 10 

### the EPA for efforts to reduce carbon emissions. 11 

### And I ask that as planning for implementation of 12 

### these plans move forward we maintain focus on 13 

### what’s important, truly important, and that is, 14 

### at the very least, that we say that days where 15 

### our children aren’t safe to play and breathe the 16 

### air outside is unacceptable. Please implement 17 

### plans that reduce carbon emissions to the degree 18 

### that we can say with confidence that days like 19 

### these are a thing of the past. Leave this 20 

### country better than you found it, a place where 21 

### the outdoor world is preserved, the air is safe 2262

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### to breathe, and the water is clean. My children, 1 

### my family, and countless others across the 2 

### country are counting on you. 3 

### Thank you. 4 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 5 

### Okay. Up next, Tyler Svitak and Curt 6


### Huber. 7 

### And on deck, Andy Wildenberg and Zabrina 8 

### Arnovitz. 9 

### Don’t forget to spell your names. 10

### MR. HUBER: Okay. I’m Curt Huber. Good 11 

### morning. C-U-R-T H-U-B-E-R. I’m the Executive 12 

### Director of the American Lung Association in 13 

### Colorado. I’m here today to testify in support 14 

### of the federal and model plans that will help 15 

### drive the shift to clean energy sources, address 16 

### climate change, and reduce as much pollution as 17 

### possible to protect the most vulnerable 18 

### populations from pollution’s consequences. 19

### The American Lung Association works very 20 

### hard to improve lung health and prevent lung 21 

### disease; and we know that climate change can 2263

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### cause public health harm through degraded air 1 

### quality, wildfires, drought, heat waves, and 2 

### more. We also know that climate change worsens 3 

### the burden of the 113,000 children and 300,000 4 

### adults that have asthma in Colorado. 5 

### We support the Clean Power Plan to reduce 6 

### carbon and other air pollutants that cause asthma 7 

### attacks, heart attacks, and premature death. We 8 

### want to make sure that we achieve the EPA’s 9 

### estimated health benefits of the Clean Power 10 

### Plan, including preventing up to 3,600 premature 11 

### deaths in 2030, preventing 90,000 asthma attacks, 12 

### and avoiding 300,000 days missed from work and 13 

### school each year. 14

### These health benefits will only come if 15 

### states develop effective plans to meet the 16 

### requirements set out by the EPA in the Clean 17


### Power Plan. In those states who refuse to 18 

### comply, it is critical that the EPA have a way to 19 

### ensure reduction at the federal level. 20

### We support the EPA’s effort to help the 21 

### states develop and adopt effective plans to 2264

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### reduce their carbon emissions. Having model 1 

### plans to use will help the states focus their 2 

### time and effort on choosing the steps that work 3


### best for them. 4 

### The American Lung Association broadly 5 

### supports the Clean Power Plan, but we also have 6 

### some suggestions for improvement. The EPA needs 7 

### to do more in the model rule and with the federal 8 

### implementation plan to ensure that low-income 9 

### communities don’t continue to bear an oversized 10 

### burden of pollution under this plan. Low-income 11 

### communities have suffered the consequences of 12 

### pollution exposure from our nation’s coal-fired 13 

### power plants for far too long. They have lived 14 

### near these plants where they breathe the worst of 15 

### the pollution, including toxic emissions like 16 

### arsenic, lead, and carcinogens like Benzene for 17 

### far too long. They are suffering more from 18 

### changes that climate change brings since research 19 

### documents that air pollution disproportionately 20 

### affects poorer communities, in part, because they 21 

### are more likely to have diseases like asthma that 2265

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### increase the risk. 1 

### EPA’s analysis, as well as an analysis by 2 

### Harvard University, and others, showed the steps 3 

### to reduce carbon emissions will also have co4 

### benefits that reduce other emissions from these 5 

### plants like ozone precursors and Sulphur oxides. 6 

### Cleaning these up is essential, but we 7 

### remain concerned that some states will adopt a 8 

### plan that does not recognize the continued 9 

### disproportionate burden, and fails to reduce 10 

### emissions from all sources. Each plan in each 11 

### state should make sure that plants do not 12 

### continue to disproportionately burden those who 13 

### live near power plants. 14

### We support EPA’s commitment to the 15 

### process – excuse me – commitment to ensure that 16 

### reductions in carbon emissions are real, and not 17 

### just apparent. We are glad that EPA recognized 18 

### that some strategies for accomplishing the Clean 19 

### Power Plan could simply move or switch the 20 

### emission source to a different geography, or, 21 

### worse, not actually reduce overall emissions. 2266

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### This process called leakage, we 1 

### appreciate that the EAP has proposed steps to 2 

### reduce the chance for leakage. We support EPA 3 

### providing the strongest possible tools for states 4 

### to use in the model plan and in the FIP to 5 

### prevent additional carbon emissions. 6 

### Thank you. 7 

### MR. SVITAK: Thank you. My name is Tyler 8 

### Svitak, T-Y-L-E-R S-V-I-T-A-K. I am the Director 9 

### of Air Quality of Transportation at the American 10 

### Lung Association of Colorado. 11

### Of course I want to echo Curt’s comments, 12 

### but I also want to talk on a few more specific 13 

### points on the model rule and the federal 14 

### implementation plan, the first of which is the 15 

### Clean Energy Incentive Programs, the CEIP. We 16 

### strongly support the CEIP as a promising method 17 

### for encouraging adoption of clean power like 18 

### solar and wind sooner rather than later. 19

### The EPA’s model plan offers states the 20 

### offer to join the CEIP, but we would encourage 21 

### EPA to make it a standard element in the final 2267

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### model plan, rather than allowing it to be 1 

### optional. We are pleased the EPA has the full 2 

### CEIP in the federal implementation plan. 3 

### However, in the model plan states can opt out of 4 

### the broad CEIP opportunity for renewable energy 5 

### and approved energy efficiency programs. We 6 

### recommend that the EPA incorporate the CEIP 7 

### elements fully in the model plan, rather than 8 

### leaving it as an option for the states to decide 9


### later. 10

### We strongly support the CPP’s component 11 

### that focusses on energy efficiency improvements 12 

### in low-income communities. Many residents in 13 

### low-income communities in our state could benefit 14 

### from having repairs done to their homes that can 15 

### cut their energy bills and make their homes 16



### warmer. 17

### We are pleased that in the CEIP the EPA 18 

### wisely chose to incentivize early adoption of the 19 

### cleanest alternative sources, wind and solar. 20 

### Both are fully capable of adding great capacity 21 

### to our energy supply, while not adding additional 2268

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### pollution to the air that we breathe. However, 1 

### other aspects of the plan would encourage states 2 

### to use less clean energy sources. In the model 3 

### rules for rate-based plans, EPA would allow 4 

### states to take credit for using biomass and waste 5 

### to energy as alternatives to coal and natural 6 

### gas. We at the American Lung Association oppose 7 

### burning biomass or waste to provide electricity, 8 

### because of the emissions and harmful air 9 

### pollutants that they produce, including 10 

### particulate matter and possible air toxins from 11 

### waste products. The Clean Power Plan should not 12 

### encourage the transformation of our fuel for 13 

### energy from burning one harmful source like coal 14 

### to burning another harmful source like waste 15 

### products. We are pleased that the federal 16 

### implementation plan would not allow these fuel 17 

### options, and encourage EPA to strengthen the 18 

### model rule to eliminate them as well. 19

### Thank you. 20

### MS. NOONAN: One quick question. If you 21 

### could, in your written comments, make sure that 2269

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### you are specific in why you want to make the CEIP 1 

### standard instead of optional, that would be very 2 

### helpful to us. Thank you. 3 

### Okay. Up next Andy Wildenberg and 4 

### Zabrina Arnovitz. 5 

### And on deck we have Colleen Cope and 6 

### Janice Zinkl. 7 

### MR. WILDENBERG: Hi. Good morning. I’m 8 

### Andy Wildenberg, A-N-D-Y. 9 

### MS. NOONAN: Mic. 10

### MR. WILDENBERG: Good morning. Andy 11 

### Wildenberg, A-N-D-Y W-I-L-D-E-N-B-E-R-G. I’m 12 

### from E3 Power. It’s a small energy audit company 13 

### in Denver. We do home energy audits, some 14 

### commercial buildings, and related energy modeling 15 

### services. 16

### The CPP is good for Colorado. Energy 17 

### efficiency, although not a building block under 18 

### the plan, can be and should be an important 19 

### component. More and more research has shown that 20 

### EE is very important in the affordable housing 21 

### sector. I applaud the EPA for giving bonus 2270

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### credit to this sector. In fact, I just read 1 

### something in some cities around the country that 2 

### affordable housing residents spend up to 60 3 

### percent of their available income on energy. 4 

### That’s totally unacceptable. There’s not that 5 

### much to begin with, and that 60 percent means a 6


### lot. We need to take that number down to almost 7 

### zero. Several states are out there now, and 8 

### their low-income housing tax credits, 9 

### specifically Pennsylvania that gave bonus credits 10 

### for a passive house; and we all know that passive 11 

### is probably the most efficient KBTU per square 12 

### foot, or lowest EUI in the industry today. So I 13 

### applaud the EPA for giving the bonus credits. We 14 

### need to move forward with additional bonus 15 

### credits in the states for the low-income housing 16 

### tax credit plan. 17

### The CPP will create jobs for the economy, 18 

### jobs that do not necessarily need a college 19 

### education, but they need real training, jobs that 20 

### require real training in specifically the HVAC 21 

### industry, and control equipment, and the 2271

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### installation of the new modern equipment. I just 1 

### attended a Manual J training in Indianapolis. 2 

### One of the biggest problems they have now in the 3 

### industry is there are not enough qualified 4 

### applicants going in to do these renovations. And 5 

### some people say that the generation that used to 6 

### be the service people in HVAC are moving in on 7 

### retirement. So there are going to be less of 8 

### them. So we need to move forward into these type 9 

### of jobs, insulators, HVAC people. They need 10 

### technical training. They’re good middle-income 11 

### jobs. That’s the jobs that the energy efficiency 12 

### industry creates. 13

### Use the energy -– excuse me. Use the 14 

### energy you need, not what you can. Use what you 15 

### need, not what you can. Supporting EE is good 16


### for Colorado. 17

### Thank you. 18

### MS. ARNOVITZ: Hi. My name is Zabrina 19 

### Arnovitz, Z-A-B-R-I-N-A A-R-N-O-V-I-T-Z. I work 20 

### for an organization called Rights for All People, 21 

### which does immigrants’ rights work, and it’s 2272

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### merging with Colorado Progressive Coalition, 1 

### which historically does social justice work. 2 

### They brought me on to do the climate part, 3 

### because we’ve realized within our organization 4 

### that it is the low-income and the more diverse 5 

### communities that are being more greatly affected 6 

### by issues of carbon pollution. 7 

### Somebody from NWF earlier spoke about how 8 

### her children can’t go out and play. I was one of 9 

### those children. I grew up right outside the City 10 

### of Cleveland, Ohio; and there were days when I 11 

### could not go out and play outside because the air 12 

### quality was so bad. 13

### I want to say that I support a strong 14 

### Clean Power Plan, but I do think that one part of 15 

### the Power Plan that’s missing is fracking, which 16 

### is a huge issue here in Colorado. And I’ve heard 17 

### from different sources that the Clean Power Plan 18 

### is being used to implement greater fracking 19 

### within Colorado, which is a huge issue because 20 

### they aren’t fracking in the nice, white 21 

### communities. They’re fracking in poor or low- 2273

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### income communities that are highly diverse, and 1 

### it’s a huge issue. And it is – so it’s not only 2 

### a climate issue. It’s a human rights issue. 3 

### It’s a social justice issue. 4 

### Thank you. 5 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 6 

### Up next, Colleen Cope and Janice Zinkl. 7 

### MS. COPE: Good morning. My name is 8 

### Colleen Cope, C-O-L-L-E-E-N C-O-P-E, and I’m here 9 

### today from Fort Collins, Colorado to express my 10 

### strong support for EPA’s historic action to 11 

### combat climate change by setting limits on carbon 12 

### pollution from existing power plants. I’m a 13 

### former geologist and high school Earth science 14 

### teacher, and I spent seven years creating weather 15 

### and climate videos and developing classroom 16 

### curriculum for students on the subject of climate 17 

### science. I am currently a climate reality leader 18 

### and a climate change activist. 19

### I’m a native of Colorado, and I’ve shared 20 

### with my students the changes that I’ve seen in my 21 

### lifetime in our state, changes like growing up 2274

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### ice skating on City Park Lake, geese that used to 1 

### fly south for the winter, and funnel clouds and 2


### tornadoes that were a rare occurrence here. 3 

### Most recently I’ve witnessed the damage 4 

### of extreme weather with more destructive 5 

### wildfires, and more intense floods, the ravages 6 

### of the pine beetle that have killed many of our 7 

### forests, and, as a skier and former ski 8 

### instructor, now shorter ski seasons. 9 

### I take very seriously my obligation to 10 

### educate future generations and protect wildlife 11 

### from the impacts of climate change. I will 12 

### undoubtedly be part of this cause for the rest of 13 

### my life. Our warming climate is posing one of 14 

### the greatest threats to our civilization as we 15 

### have come to know it and to our wildlife. And as 16 

### a scientist and teacher, and, most importantly, a 17 

### mother, I applaud the EPA for taking action to 18 

### combat the root of the problem, which is carbon 19 

### pollution. I can only hope that the State of 20 

### Colorado follows your lead in stating concrete 21 

### goals for their climate plan, and not just the 2275

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### vague generalities that exist presently. 1 

### So I commend you for creating the 2 

### backstop that will force Colorado and other 3 

### states to implement their goals and define how 4 

### and when they will achieve them. 5 

### Internationally, as we head towards the 6 

### Paris climate negotiations, the US needs to lead 7 

### and send a message that we know that climate 8 

### change threatens the lives of billions of people 9 

### and animals through drought, fertile land to grow 10 

### crops, and international instability and 11 

### migration. 12

### Thank you for the opportunity to comment 13 

### today, and I commend you and President Obama on 14 

### the rapid finalization and implementation of the 15 

### Clean Power Plan. As we go into the UN climate 16 

### talks, we hope you will do everything you can to 17 

### ensure it stays strong through the process. 18 

### Future generations are counting on your 19 

### leadership. 20

### Thank you. 21

### MS. ZINKL: Janice Zinkl, J-A-N-I-C-E 2276

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### Z-I-N-K-L. 1 

### I have lived in Colorado for 34 years in 2 

### the Denver area. I am talking today as a 3 

### concerned citizen and as a member of the Sierra 4 

### Club, and I want to thank you for giving me the 5 

### opportunity to comment today. 6 

### I am here to speak in support of the 7


### EPA’s Clean Power Plan and comment on the 8 

### recently-proposed federal implementation plan. 9 

### There are many reasons why I am concerned with 10 

### carbon emissions from power plants, but my major 11 

### concern today is health. Conventional power 12 

### plants emit conventional and toxic pollutants, 13 

### which contribute to the incident of respiratory 14 

### and heart disease causing premature death. On 15 

### the other end of the age spectrum, it contributes 16 

### to an increase in the incidence of asthma in 17 

### schoolchildren. These issues, bad for everyone, 18 

### tend to have a greater impact on minority and 19 

### low-income indigenous communities than on the 20 

### population in general. 21

### The Clean Power Plan will decrease the 2277

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### incidence of these diseases through its reduction 1 

### on emissions. That’s why the plan must achieve 2 

### the pollution reductions that it has now, or go 3 

### even further in its final form. 4 

### Thank you. 5 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 6 

### Up next we have Ron Lehr and Carol Davis, 7 

### please. 8 

### And on deck, R.J. Harrington and Kim 9


### Stevens. 10

### MR. LEHR: Good morning. 11

### MS. NOONAN: Good morning. 12


### MR. LEHR: I’m Ron Lehr. That’s R-O-N 13


### L-E-H-R. 14

### I appreciate the opportunity to be heard 15 

### on the topic of the Clean Power Plan and its 16 

### details for implementation. I have a written 17 

### statement I’ll submit at the end of this, but I’d 18 

### like to summarize it in my oral testimony, if I 19


### could. 20

### It occurred to me in thinking about this 21 

### that there’s a problem that’s fundamental and 2278

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### pretty basic and hasn’t had enough attention. So 1 

### I thought I would lay that out. I’m a lawyer. 2 

### I’m a 38-year veteran of clean energy wars here 3 

### in Colorado here. We’re having some success. 4 

### The Clean Power Plan is a terrific thing, and I 5 

### support it. But out of that experience, I’ve 6 

### recognized that the utilities that are the 7 

### subject of this rule have certain financial 8 

### incentives, and those are to maintain their 9 

### investment in the plants that are the subject of 10 

### this rule. So the utilities make their money by 11 

### investing equity in those pants and earning an 12 

### equity return, and that’s the biggest part of 13 

### their business plan. So that’s fundamentally at 14 

### odds with what the Clean Power Plan has in mind. 15 

### We need to move on from those old plants, but the 16 

### utilities want to hold onto them, because it’s in 17 

### their interests financially to do that. So 18 

### there’s misaligned incentives. That’s the 19 

### fundamental problem. 20

### Now, not to leave you with just bad news, 21 

### the good news is that there’s a lot of work being 2279

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### done on realigning those incentives so that they 1 

### are in favor of the clean energy that’s at the 2 

### base of the Clean Power Plan. Utilities are 3 

### thinking about their business models, and their 4 

### regulators, who regulate the bulk of the 5 

### investor-owned utilities that are subject to the 6 

### plan, are thinking and talking about changing 7 

### these incentives. 8 

### There’s a number of other motivations for 9 

### that. It’s not just the Clean Power Plan, but 10 

### it’s certainly one of the motivating factors. 11 

### New technology is changing how customers can get 12 

### their energy. The demographics of the aging coal 13 

### fleet mean that these plants are eventually going 14 

### to retire. And there’s limited earning potential 15 

### for utilities because of reduced load growth, 16 

### mostly due to efficiency measures, some of which 17 

### are huge successes of the EPA. 18

### There are incentives presented in the 19 

### Clean Power Plan. There are all kinds of them. 20 

### I’ve been looking at them, and they ought to be 21 

### more explicit. If we get more explicit about who 2280

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### has what incentives, who will do a better job of 1 

### work like this. But if the utilities’ economic 2 

### incentives were aligned with the outcomes of the 3 

### Clean Power Plan, instead of contradicting them, 4 

### this would be a lot easier job, and your lives as 5 

### EPA employees would be a lot more fun and 6



### prosperous. 7 

### There is good information, and I’ve 8 

### detailed it in my written statement, on the 9 

### America’s Power Plan website that goes through 10 

### how the changes in regulation of the utility 11 

### business models are coming up. And I want to 12 

### mention a part of that work is about performance 13 

### standards, performance regulation, and rewards 14 

### utilities for things society wants. Right now 15 

### they get rewarded for investing money in power 16 

### plants. We want to reward them for doing clean 17


### energy. 18

### So I have some recommendations for EPA. 19 

### I’d like to close with these. Realize that what 20 

### the CPP, the Clean Power Plan, asks of utilities 21 

### is fundamentally not in their economic interest. 2281

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### Assess what incentives are already in the Clean 1 

### Power Plan rules, and what could be addressed as 2 

### the rules change and mature. This is not an end 3 

### state. This is not the end of the world. This 4 

### is the start. Consider how utilities would be 5 

### provided with price cap or revenue cap regulation 6 

### by performance incentives that would reward them 7 

### for achieving or going beyond the minimum 8 

### requirements in these Clean Power Plan standards. 9 

### Ask how EPA – this is an important one. Ask how 10 

### EPA’s review of state plans and proposals could 11 

### be developed and accomplished with the reforms to 12 

### incentives that I’ve been talking about in mind. 13 

### So could there be some faster reactions from EPA 14 

### if a plan aligned incentives properly, or could 15 

### those proposals go to the top of the stack as EPA 16 

### is going through. Review the federal default 17 

### rule proposal, the trading regime, and the 18 

### framework regulations with an eye toward building 19 

### in attention to utility business models as they 20 

### change, and the incentives that go along with 21 

### them as regulation reforms itself to support 2282

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### those new business models. Find ways to help. 1 

### There’s a lot of work going on in academia, in 2 

### the trade associations that affect the industry, 3 

### in non-profit groups, and in the utilities 4 

### themselves. The EPA could be a partner in this, 5 

### and start to help align the incentives with its 6 

### outcomes. And then, finally, support the result. 7 

### A clean energy future should be the utilities’ 8 

### most profitable course of action. 9 

### Thank you very much. 10

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 11

### Ms. Davis? 12

### MR. LEHR: Do I hand this to you? 13

### MS. NOONAN: Just keep it for a minute. 14 

### We’re going to stay after Ms. Davis is done. 15

### MR. LEHR: Okay. 16

### MS. DAVIS: Good morning. My name is 17 

### Carol Davis. I am the coordinator of Dine 18 

### Citizens Against Ruining our Environment. I have 19 

### lived over 40 years in Dilcon Navajo Nation, 20 

### Arizona, and have worked over 17 years as a 21 

### public administrator to fight for the rights of 2283

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### my communities to have clean, safe air and water, 1 

### as well as sustainable climate. As someone who 2 

### has immediate family who live near the dirty and 3 

### polluting San Juan Generating Station, I know all 4 

### too well the devastating health and environmental 5 

### impacts of coal-fired power plants. I am glad to 6 

### know that EPA recognizes those impacts and is 7 

### working through the Clean Power Plan and in other 8 

### ways to mitigate them. 9 

### I’m here today to talk about the needs of 10 

### tribes like the Navajo Nation, and the 11 

### implementation process for the Clean Power Plan. 12 

### This is not a simple process, and it’s crucial 13 

### that EPA take into consideration the needs and 14 

### expectations of tribal communities. This is 15 

### especially important at this hearing in 16 

### particular since some tribal communities may be 17 

### subjected to the federal implementation plan, 18 

### rather than one of their own. 19

### First, whether or not a tribe is included 20 

### in the federal impact plan or writes their own 21 

### plan, they should retain the ability to work with 2284

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### states to trade and sell credits. This is 1 

### crucial to ensuring that tribes are full partners 2 

### in this work with all options available to 3 

### states, and that our communities be left out of 4 

### the significant benefits and -– and that our 5 

### communities not be left out of the significant 6 

### benefits that are available under the Clean 7 

### Energy Initiative Program. We have been 8 

### overlooked and left out too many times to count 9 

### in the past. That must not happen here. 10

### Second, the CEIP must include guidelines 11 

### for how the proceeds from selling credits 12 

### obtained through the CEIP should be allocated. 13 

### Without these guidelines, private developers 14 

### could profit from the CEIP and will have no 15 

### incentive to share those credits with local 16 

### communities. This sets up tribes for a familiar 17 

### pattern where outside forces come onto our land 18 

### and profit from our natural resources without 19 

### giving back meaningfully to the communities. I 20 

### urge EPA to closely examine this issue, and issue 21 

### guidelines that will ensure that communities 2285

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### benefit, as well as private developers. 1 

### I came here to make sure that as you 2 

### consider the details of the federal 3 

### implementation plan you remember tribal nations 4 

### and the people they represent. We will be among 5 

### some of the most impacted communities in relation 6 

### to the federal implementation plan. Please keep 7 

### us in mind as you make your final decisions. 8 

### Thank you. 9 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 10

### R.J. Harrington and Kim Stevens, please. 11



### MR.

### HARRINGTON: Am I first? 12


### MS. NOONAN: Please. 13

### MR. HARRINGTON: Good morning. I’m R.J. 14 

### Harrington, H-A-R-R-I-N-G-T-O-N, and I am the 15 

### President and CEO of Sustainable Action 16 

### Consulting, a public benefit corporation. I’m 17 

### also a member of Environmental Entrepreneurs. 18 

### And as a member of the business community, we 19 

### applaud the Clean Power Plan because we 20 

### understand it sends a strong, clear message to 21 

### the private sector to invest in low carbon energy 2286

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### technologies like solar, wind, energy efficiency. 1 

### It will help expand our state’s already strong 2 

### clean economy. 3 

### Some examples: Colorado’s booming wind 4 

### energy industry alone has created between seven 5 

### and 6,000 jobs across the state at more than 20 6 

### manufacturing plants, and nearly 30 wind farms. 7 

### All told, Colorado’s wind industry employs nearly 8 

### 10 percent of the entire US wind industry 9 

### workforce. Wind also attracted nearly $5 billion 10 

### in investment capital to our state and saved 11 

### Colorado more than $20 million in fuel costs. 12

### Not just an urban solution, rural 13 

### counties like Logan, Prowers, Weld, and Lincoln, 14 

### those wind farms there have created a much-needed 15


### revenue stream for farmers and ranchers. Because 16 

### of the small, unobtrusive wind turbine 17 

### footprints, farmers and ranchers can continue to 18 

### work their land for agricultural purposes while 19 

### simultaneously raking in lease payments. 20 

### Combined, Colorado’s wind industry generates 21 

### nearly $8 million annually in lease payments to 2287

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### farmers, ranchers, and other land owners. The 1 

### wind turbine lease payments, essentially a new 2 

### cash crop, help boost school district budgets so 3 

### they can hire more teachers and buy more books. 4 

### Solar energy is also growing Colorado’s 5 

### economy, thanks in part to ongoing construction 6 

### in Pueblo at what will be the state’s largest 7 

### solar farm. Colorado ranks tenth in the top 10 8 

### for a fifth consecutive quarter with the latest 9 

### clean energy jobs rankings published by the 10 

### national nonpartisan business group, 11 

### Environmental Entrepreneurs. 12

### Now, sadly, Colorado has slipped over the 13 

### years. We used to be in the top three; but we 14 

### can regain that capacity with all the solar 15 

### resources we have at our disposal. Across 16 

### Colorado about 4,200 people work in the solar 17 

### industry, and they’ve helped install enough solar 18 

### capacity in the state to power more than 76,000 19 

### homes, rising each day. 20

### Energy efficiency also has a huge role to 21 

### play in cutting our carbon emissions while 2288

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### growing our economy. Smarter energy in our 1 

### homes, businesses, and schools is the cheapest, 2 

### cleanest, and fastest way for states like 3 

### Colorado to meet the CPP. Scaling up efficiency 4 

### could save $4.8 billion and create 7,000 jobs 5


### over the next decade. That’s another recent 6 

### report from E2 and the Golden-Based Energy 7 

### Efficiency Business Coalition. So we can grow 8 

### our economy, create great jobs, and attract more 9 

### capital to our state. I actually represent a 10 

### number of different companies that are looking at 11 

### the CPP to see how they can either grow their 12 

### business, shift their business plan, or create 13 

### entirely new businesses under their existing 14 

### business plan. 15

### As Sustainable Action Consulting, I also 16 

### do business as National Car Charging, installing 17 

### the electric vehicle supply equipment 18 

### infrastructure business. One of the things 19 

### electric vehicle proponents want to ensure that 20 

### we avoid is that utilities are not penalized if 21 

### load growth occurs because of the addition of new 2289

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### electric vehicles, plug-in hybrids, and the like. 1 

### It’s very critical that either mass or rate base 2 

### take this load growth into consideration. 3 

### And Cate, Jenny, and Laura, finally, I’m 4 

### here on behalf of my children. Maive, age 12, and 5 

### Connell, age nine, are in school today. They 6 

### can’t make it down. They haven’t been able to 7 

### make it down for any of the hearings, but they’ve 8 

### asked me each and every time that they know that 9 

### I’m coming to make sure that I speak for them and 10 

### their peers. They want to breathe clean air. 11 

### They want a decarbonized economy so that they can 12 

### accelerate their futures. 13


### Thanks so much. 14

### MS. STEVENS: I thank you all for having 15 

### all of us here today and hearing our testimony. 16 

### My name is Kim Stevens. I am the Director of 17 

### Environment Colorado, a statewide environmental 18 

### advocacy nonprofit. We are funded by tens of 19


### thousands of Coloradans across the state as we 20 

### work to protect Colorado’s air, water, and open 21 

### spaces, and tackle big issues like global 2290

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### warming. On behalf of Environment Colorado, I 1 

### really appreciate the opportunity to be here and 2 

### provide feedback on the model plan and the 3 

### federal implementation plan. 4 

### Here in Colorado and across the country, 5 

### we’re definitely all feeling the impacts of a 6 

### changing climate. So whether I’m up in northern 7 

### Colorado talking to a farmer who is having to 8 

### change when they plant their tomatoes because of 9 

### unprecedented rains, the ski owner on the west 10 

### slope who is concerned about snow or ski seasons 11 

### every year, or the families up in Lyons who are 12 

### still rebuilding after the historic floods, folks 13 

### in Colorado are feeling the impacts of a changing 14 

### climate. And we know that one of the biggest 15 

### contributors to the pollution that is fueling 16 

### global warming is carbon pollution from coal17 

### fired power plants. So we definitely thank the 18 

### EPA and the Obama Administration for moving 19 

### forward with the Clean Power Plan. And that’s 20 

### why it’s imperative to make sure that we’re 21 

### implementing this plan as quickly as possible and 2291

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### make sure it’s really accelerating our transition 1 

### to a truly clean energy future. 2 

### States across the country, including 3 

### right here in Colorado, have huge potential when 4 

### it comes to renewable energy. So in Colorado we 5 

### already get well over 12 percent of our energy 6 

### from wind. And we have the potential, the solar 7 

### potential to power the entire state 362 times 8 

### over, which is pretty impressive. 9 

### And then energy efficiency is a no10 

### brainer. It offers us huge untapped potential to 11 

### get more done while using less electricity. 12 

### Nationally, the American Council for Energy13 

### Efficient Economy estimates that we could reduce 14 

### overall energy use across the country and across 15 

### the economy by 40 to 60 percent by 2050 just by 16 

### using more energy efficiency tools that we have 17 

### at our fingertips. 18

### So to make sure that we’re truly 19 

### addressing the climate crisis, we need to quickly 20 

### accelerate to a 100 percent clean energy future. 21 

### The Clean Power Plan is a great tool to get us on 2292

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### that trajectory. And as the EPA finalizes the 1 

### model rule and the federal implementation plan, 2 

### we strongly encourage that you ensure that these 3 

### programs encourage investment in clean energy 4 

### resources like wind, solar, and energy efficiency 5 

### as much as possible. 6


### And then I have three other 7 

### recommendations for these plans. One, that the 8 

### faster the EPA can finalize the model rule and 9 

### the federal implementation plan, the more 10 

### certainty states will have as they develop their 11 

### compliance plans and the quicker they can move 12 

### forward. So we urge the EPA to consider whether 13 

### some components can be finalized shortly after 14 

### the comment period closes. 15

### Second, the EPA should apply federal plan 16 

### provisions quickly should a state decline to 17 

### create their own state plan and carry out its 18 

### responsibilities. 19

### Then third, EPA needs to ensure that 20 

### affected power plants abide by enforceable limits 21 

### in their emissions of global warming pollution. 2293

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### So thank you all for this opportunity to 1 

### speak, and I really appreciate, and Environment 2 

### Colorado, and our members appreciate your action 3 

### pushing forward the Clean Power Plan. Thank you. 4 

### MS. NOONAN: Great. Thank you both. 5 

### Okay. With that, we’re going to take a 6 

### 10-minute break. The hearing will resume in 10 7 

### minutes. 8 

### (Whereupon, at 10:35 a.m., a brief recess 9 

### was taken, to reconvene at 10:51 a.m.) 10

### MS. NOONAN: All right. Thank you, 11 

### everyone. I think we’re going to get started. 12 

### Up next we have James Hughes and Sandy 13 

### Butterfield. 14

### And on deck, Garrett Sullivan and Karyn 15


### Weller-Coffman. 16

### Just as a reminder, for our wonderful 17 

### court reporter, please spell your name as you 18 

### begin. 19

### Mr. Hughes, you can start. 20

### MR. HUGHES: All right. I’m James 21 

### Hughes, just a crazy independent sports 2294

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### individual. I do a lot of fly fishing. 1 

### MS. NOONAN: Grab the microphone and 2 

### spell your name, please. 3 

### MR. HUGHES: James Hughes, J-A-M-E-S 4 

### H-U-G-H-E-S. I’m here today not to really talk 5 

### about the economics, because we all know that, 6 

### for instance, Germany, over 30 percent of their 7 

### electricity comes from wind and solar. 8 

### We’re sitting back here and we have every 9 

### day, I don’t know how many times that day you see 10 

### a commercial about it’s been 65 years and you’ve 11 

### never had a problem with fracking. Well, the 12 

### reality is if you go to, let’s say, Josh Fox 13 

### concerning Gasland One or Gasland Two, the 14 

### reality of what goes on right now in the country 15 

### is very scary. 16

### Of the inspectors in Colorado -- we have 17 

### over 144,000 wells. The answer to our problem is 18 

### we have the toughest regulations in the country. 19 

### That’s true, but they only have seven inspectors. 20 

### 68 percent of wells are never inspected. 21

### And so we’ve gone around this little fun 2295

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### game. We’ve had British Petroleum. They changed 1 

### their name to Beyond Petroleum. It should be 2 

### changed to Beyond Pollution. 3 

### Condensers in and around the City of 4 

### Houston, they put out more pollution from 5 

### fracking oil wells -– they put more pollution 6 

### than all the gas or oil wells around the City of 7 

### Houston. And we need to change the direction 8 

### we’re going. 9 

### We’re looking – we’re looking at lowering 10 

### the pH of the oceans, besides just global 11 

### warming. We could also end, of course, global 12 

### warming by not eating any meat due to the amount 13 

### of gas the cows put out as far as methane, but 14 

### no. It’s crazy from the standpoint – my favorite 15 

### little t-shirt that I’ve got is, “Frack me now; 16 

### fruck me later.” But it’s –- it’s total 17 

### insanity. 18

### And basically we’re seeing millions of 19 

### dollars spent for advertisements for Heartland 20 

### Institute that each year gets together and they 21 

### put together millions of dollars with COCE money 2296

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### and other government -– other agencies from all 1 

### the dear old oil companies denying global 2 

### warming. 3 

### And of course you know in Greenland now 4 

### they’re having – they’re growing vegetables again 5 

### outdoors. And we’re looking what’s happening on 6 

### the west side of dear old Antarctica. We’ve got 7 

### six glaciers that are melting, and the commentary 8 

### by the right is, “Well, the pack ice on the east 9 

### side is increasing.” That’s true, but the pack 10 

### ice is increasing only because of the high winds 11 

### that are blowing across 3,000 miles of the Arctic 12 

### at higher velocities and the pack ice is 13 

### extending across. No. Onward and downward. The 14 

### lies that are going out there is just 15 

### incomprehensible. Like I like to say about 16 

### somebody on the right, never have so few worked 17 

### so hard to screw so many as far as the 18 

### environment. 19

### Thank you. 20

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 21

### Mr. Butterfield? 2297

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### MR. BUTTERFIELD: Thank you. Thank you 1 

### for hearing my comments. My name is Charles 2 

### Perry Butterfield, sometimes known as Sandy 3 

### Butterfield. I’m very often known as Sandy 4 

### Butterfield. My name’s spelled Butterfield, 5 

### B-U-T-T-E-R-F-I-E-L-D. The first names is 6 

### Charles, C-H-A-R-L-E-S. 7 

### My testimony today comes from the 8 

### position of experience. I’ve been in the wind 9 

### industry for 40 years. During that time I 10 

### witnessed the technology mature tremendously. My 11 

### experience has always been in technology. In the 12 

### late Seventies and the early Eighties, I owned a 13 

### company called ESI. We designed and manufactured 14 

### wind turbines and installed them in California. 15 

### In 1985 I joined the National Renewable Energy 16 

### Laboratory, and became their chief technology 17 

### officer or the chief engineer. I was responsible 18 

### for the research side of their program. So I 19 

### personally was responsible for aerodynamics 20 

### testing, aerodynamics research, controls 21 

### research, reliability research, and multiple 2298

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### other aspects of the various technologies that 1 

### make wind energy a success. During that time 2 

### period we were always concerned about the cost of 3 

### energy. That’s always been the goal. My last 4 

### job was –- I left the National Renewable Energy 5 

### Laboratory in 2009, and started a company called 6 

### Boulder Wind Power. We developed direct-drive 7 

### generators for the wind industry. 8 

### The point I really want to make is that 9 

### there are no technical challenges to what we need 10 

### to do in this country. There was a very good 11 

### report done by the Department of Energy with many 12 

### industry collaboratives called The Wind Vision, 13 

### and it spelled out in infinite detail how we can 14 

### get to 80 percent renewable energy by the year 15 

### 2050. These are all doable technical challenges. 16 

### I think we’ve proven that multiple times. The 17 

### states in our own country have proven that 18 

### operating very high penetrations. Texas, for 19 

### example, operates today at an annual energy share 20 

### of nine percent. They’ve reached penetrations, 21 

### short-term penetrations of up to 60 percent. 2299

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### There is Iowa who operates annually at 28 and a 1 

### half percent; South Dakota, 25 percent; Kansas, 2 

### 21 percent; Idaho, 28 percent, and so on. 3 

### Colorado itself gets 13 percent of their energy 4 

### from wind. Each of those states have shown in 5 

### short-term basis that they can produce energy at 6 

### much higher penetrations, up to 60 percent. 7 

### If you go to the European countries like 8 

### Denmark, you’ve seen annual penetrations of 40 9 

### percent this past year. And for months at a 10 

### time, you can see penetrations of 80 percent; and 11 

### for hours and sometimes days 100 to 120 percent 12 

### of their energy coming from wind energy. 13

### So this proves that the stability issues 14 

### that people sometimes talk about are solvable 15 

### problems. 16

### Now, to be fair, these are all done by 17 

### being connected to other sources of energy. So 18 

### it will always take a mix of energy to get to 19 

### these levels, but we are absolutely capable of 20 

### doing this. We’ve proven it in multiple places, 21 

### Denmark at 40 percent, Spain at 21 percent, and 22100

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### Germany at 14 percent. These are countries, very 1 

### large countries, obviously, that operate very 2 

### successfully at high penetrations of variable 3 

### energy sources, solar, wind, other sources that 4 

### produce variable power. 5 

### We know how to manage these things from a 6 

### utilities standpoint. So the challenges are not 7 

### technical. The challenges are policy. This 8 

### policy, I believe, is the best chance of really 9 

### helping to accelerate a renewable clean future. 10 

### And I think that it’s one that we stand on the 11 

### threshold of introducing. We’ve tried many times 12 

### at others. This, I think, is a fair and 13 

### equitable and expedient way of reducing our 14 

### carbon footprint and hopefully guaranteeing a 15 

### clean future, and a sustainable future. 16

### I continue to be concerned about energy 17 

### independence. I think it’s key to political 18 

### stability in our world. And I think this is an 19 

### essential ingredient in this process. 20

### I am a believer in wildlife. I’m a lover 21 

### of wildlife. I believe that this is the key for 22101

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### an economically stable future. I think it’s the 1 

### key to global warming solutions. And for my son, 2 

### I am one of the people who really does think this 3 

### is the key. He’s working in wind energy as well. 4 

### So thank you very much for hearing my 5 

### comments. I believe that this is a wonderful 6 

### thing that you’re doing, and I hope and pray that 7 

### you will continue it. And anything that I can do 8 

### to help, I would love to do that. 9 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 10

### Okay. Up next Garrett Sullivan and Karyn 11 

### Weller-Coffman, please. 12

### And on deck, Pam Eaton and Emily Fischer. 13

### Karyn Weller-Coffman? 14

### Okay. Is Pam Eaton available to go now? 15

### Thank you. 16

### Mr. Sullivan, you want to start? Grab 17 

### the mic and spell your name. 18

### MR. SULLIVAN: My full name is Steven 19 

### Garrett Sullivan. I go by my middle name, 20 

### Garrett, but TSA at the airport knows me as 21


### Steven. 22102

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### I am speaking as a private individual, 1 

### and as a retired physician who took the 2 

### Hippocratic Oath to first do no harm, which is an 3 

### important part of the attempted regulations, 4 

### which are being implemented by the EPA. 5 

### As a biology student in 1974, some years 6 

### back, I was introduced to the concept of carbon 7 

### dioxide as a greenhouse gas, and at that time 8 

### that was not widely recognized. I believe Al 9 

### Gore has some experience, and it stuck with him 10 

### through his political career. 11

### As a biology student, however, I was 12 

### introduced to ecology and study of the 13 

### environment. And there was a concept that is an 14 

### important consideration as to why this should be 15 

### done quickly and without changes or weakening of 16 

### the proposal. It’s the tragedy of the commons. 17 

### It’s a term that was coined originally by a 18 

### British author in the 1800’s. It was later used 19 

### by a biologist at the University of California 20 

### Santa Barbara, Garrett Hardin -- I didn’t select 21 

### this because it was new -– to denote a situation 22103

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### where individuals acting independently and 1 

### rationally according to each’s self-interest 2 

### behave contrary to the best interests of the 3 

### whole group by depleting some common resource. 4 

### In this case the commons refers to the 5 

### sources such as atmosphere, oceans, rivers, clean 6 

### water, clean air, lower CO2 emissions. Free 7 

### access and unrestricted demand for a finite 8 

### resource ultimately reduces the resource through 9 

### overexploitation, temporarily or permanently. 10 

### This occurs because the benefits of exploitation 11 

### accrue to individuals or groups, each of whom is 12 

### motivated to maximize the use of the resource to 13 

### the point at which they become reliant on it 14 

### while the costs of the exploitation are borne by 15 

### all those to whom the resource is available. 16 

### This, in turn, causes demand for the resources to 17 

### increase, which causes the problem to snowball 18 

### until the resource collapses. And that can be 19 

### applied to any of the limited resources we have, 20 

### including an atmosphere that is not degraded by 21 

### carbon dioxide. 22104

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### In our schools, in our raising of our 1 

### children, we try to encourage them to plan for 2 

### the future. We use fables and fairy tales to 3 

### point it out. The Ant and the Grasshopper comes 4 

### to mind. The grasshopper fiddles away his 5 

### summer, dances away the summer doing nothing 6 

### while the ant prepares for the winter. Come fall 7 

### and winter, the grasshopper’s hungry, approaches 8 

### the ant for help, and the ant says, “No. You 9 

### should have taken care of this before on your 10 

### own.” It seems to me that we should apply the 11 

### wisdom that we’re trying to teach our children 12 

### for the benefit of our children and implement 13 

### EPA’s Clean Power Plan as soon as possible 14 

### without changes. 15

### Thank you. 16

### MS. EATON: Hi. My name is Pam Eaton 17 

### with the Wilderness Society. My last name is 18 

### spelled E-A-T-O-N. Thank you for the opportunity 19 

### to speak today on the importance of the Clean 20 

### Power Plan. I am the Senior Director of the 21 

### Carbon Emissions Reduction Campaign for the 22105

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### Wilderness Society. The Wilderness Society is a 1 

### not-for-profit organization dedicated for more 2 

### than 75 years to the protection and management of 3 

### our nation’s public lands. 4 

### As part of our work to find solutions to 5 

### reduce carbon emissions, I have served on the 6 

### Western Electricity Coordinating Council’s 7 

### Scenario Planning Steering Group, and there are 8 

### exciting changes emerging in the west 9 

### transmission grid and electricity markets that 10 

### can help create new solutions to the challenge of 11 

### carbon pollution. With that said, we will need a 12 

### strong federal implementation plan to ensure that 13 

### all the states contribute to those solutions. 14

### The Clean Power Plan aims to reduce 15 

### carbon pollution, and that is a major threat to 16 

### our public lands. It will help reduce the risks 17 

### of habitat shift, degradation, and alteration 18 

### that will occur as temperatures warm, 19 

### precipitation pattern shifts, intensifying forest 20 

### fires, floods, and droughts, ocean chemistry 21 

### changes, and sea level rise. These are all risks 22106

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### for public lands, and for all of us here in the 1


### West. 2 

### The Clean Power Plan gives states 3 

### flexibility in meeting the emission reduction 4 

### targets from fossil fuel-fired power plants. The 5 

### EPA is encouraging states to design cost6 

### effective ways to reduce the carbon pollution, 7 

### modernize our energy system, and create jobs in 8 

### the clean energy sector while protecting wildlife 9 

### and our public lands in ways that make sense for 10


### each state. 11

### In the West the emergence of an energy 12 

### imbalance market, the partnership between the 13 

### PacificCorp and the California Integrated System 14 

### Operator, planned transmission expansions, and 15 

### renewable energy projects, and other changes in 16 

### the development and operation of the grid provide 17 

### opportunities for new, creative approaches to 18 

### reduce our overall carbon emissions from fossil 19 

### fuel-fired power plants. These changes, I think, 20 

### are exciting and some that the states can really 21 

### take advantage of in trying to approach this in a 22107

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### creative way. 1 

### Equally important to these changes and to 2 

### the role of the states is that backstop provided 3 

### by the proposed federal implementation plan for 4 

### states that are unwilling to meet the carbon 5 

### pollution reduction targets in the Clean Power 6


### Plan. 7 

### The federal plan should be strong in 8 

### order to ensure proper pollution reductions and 9 

### encourage renewable energy solutions. States 10 

### have a chance to find and implement great 11 

### solutions, but this will ensure that there’s a 12 

### backstop if some of them don’t rise to that 13 

### challenge. 14

### The Clean Power Plan is part of a 15 

### comprehensive strategy to reduce carbon 16 

### emissions. On our public lands we’re working to 17 

### reduce methane emissions form the oil and gas 18 

### sector and site-renewable energy and transmission 19 

### to make renewable energy on public lands possible 20 

### in a way that minimizes its impacts on wildlife 21 

### and wild lands. But making changes to reduce 22108

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### carbon emissions from power plants is the 1 

### critical step if we’re going to achieve our 2 

### carbon pollution goals. 3 

### So thank you for this opportunity to 4 

### comment on the plan today, and we encourage you 5 

### to move forward and strengthen the federal 6 

### implementation plan, and for each of the states 7 

### to pursue creative solutions that include 8 

### regional coordination and cooperation. 9 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. And anything in 10 

### your written comments that could elaborate on the 11 

### changes in the West would be helpful. 12


### MS. EATON: Sure. 13

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 14

### Is Karyn Weller-Coffman here? 15

### Okay. Emily Fischer? 16

### Karyn Weller-Coffman and Emily Fischer, 17 

### please. 18

### Spell your name. 19

### MS. WELLER-COFFMAN: Hi. My name is 20 

### Karyn, K-A-R-Y-N. Weller-Coffman is hyphenated, 21 

### W-E-L-L-E-R, hyphen, C-O-F-F-M-A-N. 22109

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### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 1 

### MS. WELLER-COFFMAN: I am here speaking 2 

### as a mother and a grandmother, and a third3 

### generation Coloradan. I am very proud of the 4 

### state we live in because of its clean air and 5 

### water and clean environment, healthy environment. 6 

### People come here from all over to enjoy those 7 

### things. And I’m coming here to speak as a mother 8 

### and grandmother because I am really concerned 9 

### about the toxins that we’re all exposed to. And 10 

### that’s why I am in favor of the plan as set out, 11 

### so that we can all enjoy a country and a state 12 

### and a world that is in favor of the good for all. 13


### I lost a son to cancer when he was 26. 14 

### He was diagnosed two months before he was 19, and 15 

### I believe that his cancer was caused by 16 

### environmental toxins. And so I’m looking forward 17 

### to the birth of another grandson in March, and 18 

### I’m looking forward to a good healthy planet for 19 

### all our young people to grow up in. I don’t want 20 

### to look at them and answer the question, “Why 21 

### didn’t you do something?” So that’s why I’m 22110

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### here. I’m speaking up for them. 1 

### And I want to share a wonderful quote by 2 

### Dr. Seuss, and it is this: “Unless someone like 3 

### you cares a whole lot, a whole awful lot, nothing 4 

### is going to get better. It’s not.” 5 

### Thank you. 6 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 7 

### MS. FISCHER: Hi. My name is Emily 8 

### Fischer. It’s spelled F-I-S-C-H-E-R. And I’m 9 

### here speaking as a sister. I wanted to say -– 10

### That quote gets me every time. 11


### -- that I wasn’t around when the EPA was 12 

### created, or when the Clean Air Act was signed, or 13 

### the Clean Water Act was signed, but I feel its 14 

### impacts in my life and life of my brothers all 15 

### the time because they both have asthma. And we 16 

### grew up in the industrial Midwest, and I know the 17 

### Clean Air Act is why they are able to be healthy 18 

### and active. They’re more active than I am most 19 

### of the time. And I think that 30, 45 years from 20 

### now we’re going to be looking at the Clean Power 21 

### Plan and saying this made a difference in 22111

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### people’s lives. And so I want to thank you guys 1 

### for the work that you’re doing. I’m sure it’s 2 

### really hard. But just to let you know that it’s 3 

### really going to make an impact on people’s lives 4 

### and the lives of their family. 5 

### And I think that Colorado is really well6 

### positioned to be a leader in this. I’m excited 7 

### that the governor is working to put together an 8 

### implementation plan. I wanted to encourage you 9 

### to finalize model rule frameworks so that it can 10 

### move swiftly once the plan is finalized, and just 11 

### demonstrate this is something that will work. 12

### And I thank you for hearing me. 13

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 14

### Up next we have Noah Kaplan and John 15 

### Bringenberg. 16

### And on deck we have Bill Peck and Chris 17 

### Davis. 18

### MR. KAPLAN: Hi. My name is Noah Kaplan. 19 

### It’s spelled N-O-A-H K-A-P-L-A-N. I’m here 20 

### speaking as a private individual. 21

### My family moved to Colorado and bought 22112

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### our first home six months ago, and we knew that 1 

### one of the first things we wanted to do was to 2 

### add rooftop solar panels to our home and access 3 

### clean, cost-effective solar energy. Thanks to 4 

### Colorado’s leadership in adopting policies that 5 

### have supported renewable energy and working to 6 

### reduce carbon emissions with economic incentives 7 

### that work for the private sector, we had plenty 8 

### of options out there for being able to do that, 9 

### and we were able to quickly start that process 10 

### without a lot of upfront costs to us and a lot of 11 

### additional financial burden. 12

### Based on Colorado’s leadership, I’m 13 

### confident that Colorado will submit a state plan 14 

### for compliance with the Clean Power Plan carbon 15 

### reduction targets, and that we’ll be able to meet 16 

### those goals without economic disruption for 17


### Colorado. But I also know that some of our 18 

### neighboring states don’t share Colorado’s 19 

### commitment to growing their economies by seizing 20 

### the opportunities that renewable energy presents. 21 

### And I know that at least some of our neighbors 22113

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### will do what it can to continue in the status 1 

### quo, relying on dirty energy. 2 

### Without a strong federal implementation 3 

### plan, carbon emissions from neighboring states 4 

### won’t be sufficiently reduced, and Colorado’s 5 

### leadership on emission reductions won’t be enough 6 

### to stave off the worst effects of global warming. 7 

### So, from my point of view, the federal 8 

### implementation plan needs to do two important 9 

### things. The first is to provide incentives for 10 

### states like Colorado that are early-adopters of 11 

### renewable energy to continue to grow their 12 

### renewable capacity even beyond the goals set in 13 

### the Clean Power Plan. And, second, to ensure 14 

### that the federal implementation plan includes 15 

### clear guidance to lagging states on what they 16 

### have to do, and accountability mechanisms for 17 

### ensuring that they do it. 18

### I am the father of a three-year-old 19 

### daughter, and she’s not old enough to understand 20 

### the difference between clean and dirty energy, 21 

### and she doesn’t know right now the effects that 22114

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### she will see in her future, depending on whether 1 

### we continue with the status quo, or move towards 2 

### increased renewable energy. But in a few years 3 

### from now when she gets older, I want to be able 4 

### to point to the solar panels we put on our house 5 

### and explain to her the tangible effect, the 6 

### tangible part that we played in making progress 7 

### towards clean air and a clean environment. And 8 

### if Colorado’s neighbors aren’t part of the 9 

### solution, then we won’t achieve that kind of 10 

### tangible progress, and I won’t be able to show 11 

### her that impact that we make. 12

### So I’m asking that you please act quickly 13 

### to finalize the federal implementation plan and 14 

### give Colorado incentives to keep moving towards a 15 

### 100 percent renewable future, and do what you can 16 

### to force our neighbors to catch up. 17

### Thank you. 18

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 19

### MR. BRINGENBERG: Thank you and good 20 

### morning. I appreciate the opportunity to submit 21 

### formal testimony regarding EPA’s proposed Clean 22115

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### Power Plan. My name is John Bringenberg, and I’m 1 

### here today from Denver, Colorado representing the 2 

### Colorado Solar Energy Industry Association, 3 

### COSEIA, and to express my strong support for the 4 

### EPA’s historic action and its federal 5 

### implementation plan. And I applaud my tablemate 6 

### for having solar on his home. 7 

### The EPA proposes that the best system for 8 

### emissions reduction, or the BSER, includes four 9 

### building blocks, heat rate improvements, natural 10 

### gas switching, renewable energy measures, and 11 

### energy efficiency. 12

### We agree with the EPA that renewable 13 

### energy measures are a necessary part of the third 14 

### block of this BSER. However, we’re concerned 15 

### that renewable energy measures as currently 16 

### calculated are incomplete. They do not contain 17 

### current solar market data, and they do not 18 

### include distributed solar. Therefore, as 19 

### currently written, EPA’s proposal understates 20 

### emissions reductions achievable through the 21 

### application of this BSER. To be clear, solar 22116

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### energy is ready to play a much bigger role in the 1 

### building block number three. 2 

### Timing is a further concern. The EPA’s 3 

### plan is set to fully engage in 2022 with the 4 

### potential of some near-term actions starting in 5 

### 2020. However, an unintended consequence of this 6 

### timeline could be a downtrend, rather than an 7 

### uptrend, in continued deployment of renewable 8 

### energy, and specifically utility scale and 9 

### distributed solar. Unless extended by Congress, 10 

### the federal tax credits now in place for solar 11 

### are set to expire at the end of 2016, reduce or 12 

### expire. This, along with next-decade plans being 13 

### negotiated by the EPA, could have a serious 14 

### dampening effect on deployment of alternative 15 

### clean solar energy in the near term. 16

### At the risk of oversimplifying a very 17 

### complex process, it seems that one of two things 18 

### must be supported by both the EPA and the states 19 

### in this federal implementation plan. We either 20 

### need to recognize and properly account for 21 

### external costs of climate change such as a carbon 22117

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### tax or higher costs for energy, or we need to 1 

### make alternative energy choices more market 2 

### attractive than fossil fuel using financial 3 

### mechanisms. Since external costs is likely to 4 

### take considerable time, and since mechanisms 5 

### already exist for the second notion there, we 6 

### suggest that we should be supporting in the near 7 

### term more financial mechanisms to make 8 

### alternative energy choices more market 9 

### attractive. 10

### And I would just point out two of those, 11 

### which I think should be at the lead of the pack 12 

### in working with states. One is state tax 13 

### credits. State tax credits have proven to be 14 

### among the best mechanisms to generate positive 15 

### state returns and job development while 16 

### encouraging wide deployment of both large-scale 17 

### and distributed solar generation. RTI 18 

### International has calculated that the North 19 

### Carolina renewable energy sales tax returns $1.93 20 

### for every dollar spent, nearly a two to one net 21 

### benefit to the people of North Carolina. One of 22118

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### the specific and selfish benefits of a well1 

### designed state tax benefit program is that it 2 

### generates substantial economic development which 3 

### stays in the borders of the state. 4 

### Next, SRECs continue to be the principal 5 

### system for measuring the compliance plus the 6 

### attributes of renewable energy for energy 7 

### producers and the private sector. But those few 8 

### states with active SREC trading markets, they’re 9 

### seeing robust development, but those are those 10 

### states with deregulated retail energy, just a 11 

### few. So the challenge for the EPA in the states 12 

### is to find creative ways to establish state-wide 13 

### and ultimately national supported markets for 14 

### SRECs where off-takers, corporations, developers, 15 

### and investors can either monetize renewable 16 

### energy, or claim them as green benefits. 17

### Just to summarize, we feel the Clean 18 

### Power Plan will ultimately need to balance and 19 

### reconcile higher costs for fossil fuels and a 20 

### more attractive cost for clean energy 21 

### alternatives. Support and expansion of existing 22119

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### programs is vital while the long-term state 1 

### programs are negotiated and implemented. We 2 

### can’t miss a beat there. And the EPA should 3 

### encourage the wide adoption of state tax credit 4 

### programs and find creative ways to establish SREC 5 

### trading markets. 6 

### Thank you for your good work and critical 7 

### work on this global issue. 8 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. For the benefit 9 

### of the transcript, could you spell out what SREC 10


### stands for? 11

### MR. BRINGENBERG: Solar renewable energy 12 

### credits. 13

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 14

### Okay. Up next we have Bill Peck and 15 

### Chris Davis. 16

### MR. PECK: Thank you for allowing me to 17 

### submit formal testimony today for the Clean Power 18 

### Plan, an aggressive policy which focusses efforts 19 

### to reduce CO2 emissions of existing power plants. 20


### Better? 21

### MS. NOONAN: Are you Mr. Peck? 22120

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### MR. PECK: I am. My name is Bill Peck. 1 

### MS. NOONAN: Great. Thank you. 2 

### MR. PECK: I support implementation of 3 

### the CPP. Not only will the plan help our nation 4 

### to address climate change, but it will further 5 

### protect our natural environment for the benefit 6 

### of future generations. 7 

### I also support the plan as another means 8 

### to increase the rate at which our economy moves 9 

### towards the use of advanced energy sources such 10 

### as hydropower, wind, solar, combined heat and 11 

### power, transmission and distribution 12 

### efficiencies, and end-use efficiencies. 13

### To encourage the use of advanced energy, 14 

### the EPA should implement only one plan type; that 15 

### is either a mass-based or a rate-based plan in 16 

### each state that has a federal plan. This will 17 

### ease interstate trading of emission reduction 18 

### credits, or ERCs. States under the federal plan 19 

### should be able to use advanced energy to include 20 

### energy efficiency to meet their compliance 21 

### targets. Such provisions will minimize costs to 22121

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### power producers, and also help create an eligible 1 

### market for compliance measures such as the 2 

### trading of ERCs, or emissions reduction credits. 3 

### Again, energy efficiency and distributed 4 

### generation should count in a state’s reductions 5


### efforts. 6 

### Thank you. Thanks for the good work. 7 

### MR. DAVIS: Hello. My name’s Chris 8 

### Davis, and I’d like to start off by just thanking 9 

### the EPA for all the hard work they’re been doing 10 

### over the years. 11

### Today I speak to you as a member of the 12 

### running community. Here in Colorado runners are 13 

### typically kind of a passive group of people who 14 

### kind of steer away from politics, but this is a 15 

### pretty important issue in my community. Speaking 16 

### as a student athlete and an employee of a 17 

### locally-owned run specialty store, we understand 18 

### that the importance of protecting our environment 19 

### is something huge and feel that we want to 20 

### continue to keep clean parks and clean rivers 21 

### very important and protected by these sort of 22122

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### implementations. 1 

### Importantly to me, speaking as somebody 2 

### who travels around the country to compete at 3 

### various events throughout our nation, I think 4 

### that constraining the wind knows no bounds. It’s 5 

### really important that we address these kind of 6 

### Clean Power Plan issues. 7 

### I’m thankful for the leadership that 8 

### Colorado has put forward in reducing carbon 9 

### emissions and things like that to help fight 10 

### these problems. But moving forward, I think we 11 

### need to make sure that other states follow in 12 

### line with what we’re doing. And that’s why I 13 

### wanted to make sure that when I travel outside 14 

### the state to compete I can enjoy the clean air 15 

### that we have here in Colorado around the country, 16 

### hence, why I believe that in this act we need 17 

### incentives to encourage early adaptation of the 18


### EPA’s efforts. 19

### Thank you. 20

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 21

### We’ve come to 11:30, and there is a brief 22123

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### pause here. If there’s anyone in the audience 1 

### who has yet signed up or is signed up for a later 2 

### time this afternoon but would like to speak now, 3 

### we have an opportunity. 4 

### Yes, please. 5 

### Anybody else? I understand there might 6 

### be some weather coming, so if anyone has a later 7 

### time and would like to speak, we’re happy to do 8 

### that at this time. 9 

### MS. SHERWOOD: Good morning. Thank you 10 

### for having me back again. I was here before. 11

### MS. NOONAN: Start with your name and how 12 

### to spell it, please. 13

### MS. SHERWOOD: Erica Sherwood, 7139 South 14 

### Elm Court, Centennial, Colorado. 15

### MS. NOONAN: And you said that was 16 

### Sherwood. Could you spell that? 17

### MS. SHERWOOD: Yes. Like the forest. 18

### President Obama’s plan is common sense 19 

### getting to encourage American’s participation in 20 

### preventing further global warming by diminishing 21 

### the greenhouse effect caused by pollution. We 22124

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### should all support the incentives offered by this 1 

### plan. It promotes clean energy and energy 2 

### efficiency. 3 

### Americans in the private sector, in 4 

### government, and the public are committing to 5 

### cleaner energy sources and cutting energy waste. 6 

### Solar power technology use is rewarded and 7 

### financed, which creates a clean energy economy 8 

### worth investing in. Use of wind and solar power 9 

### to create electricity is not only for the 10 

### nation’s households, but useful for electric 11 

### buses as used in Vail, Colorado, electric cars 12 

### for our roads, home heating, and new lighting 13 

### systems. Many citizens have pledged to reduce 14 

### greenhouse gas emissions. 15

### 34 United States cities have signed on to 16 

### the Compact with new projects for their cities. 17 

### Their way to measure progress is through a 18 

### transparent and consistent system that provides 19 

### accountability. All of this and more must be 20 

### accomplished as soon as humanly possible. 21

### It is our duty to protect our currently- 22125

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### declining bird population as reported by the 1 

### Audubon Society. I have these reports here for 2 

### you. The report by Atmospheric Environment of 3 

### March 2008 regarding insect pollinators shows the 4 

### effects of chemical destruction by hydrocarbons 5 

### in the air. A study of the melting ice sheets in 6 

### this October 14 Nature Magazine proves we need to 7 

### curb greenhouse emissions. Finally, a new study 8 

### published in Nature reveals that 3.3 million 9 

### people a year die from air pollution worldwide. 10 

### The United States, with 54,905 deaths in 2010 11 

### from soot and smog, ranks the highest for air 12 

### pollution deaths. 13

### Pope Francis wishes a courageous and 14 

### responsible effort to redirect our steps to avert 15 

### the serious effects of environmental 16 

### deterioration caused by humans. He stated at the 17 

### UN that the United States and Congress should 18 

### implement a culture of caring for one another, 19 

### and at the same time protect nature. 20

### That’s it. Thank you. 21

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 22126

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### Anybody else in the audience who has not 1 

### spoken who would like to? 2 

### Okay. Hearing no one, we’re going to 3 

### take a pause for just a few minutes, and we’ll 4 

### reconvene shortly. 5 

### (Whereupon, at 11:30 a.m., a recess was 6 

### taken, to reconvene at 11:31 a.m.) 7


### THE REPORTER: We’re on the record. 8 

### MS NOONAN: We’re on the record, and we 9 

### are going to a recess until 1:00. We welcome you 10 

### all back at that time. 11

### Thank you. 12

### (Whereupon, at 11:31 a.m., a luncheon 13 

### recess was taken, to reconvene at 1:02 p.m.) 14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22127

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### AFTERNOON SESSION 1 

### 1:02 p.m. 2 

### MS. VIDETICH: So good afternoon. 3 

### Welcome to today’s –- this afternoon’s public 4 

### hearing on Clean Power Plan, the federal plan and 5 

### model rules. My name is Callie Videtich, and I’m 6 

### here to chair this afternoon’s hearing. And 7 

### thank you all for coming today. 8 

### Joining me on the panel today are Nick 9 

### Swanson to my right, and Ethan Aumann to my left. 10 

### Fossil fuel power plants are the 11 

### largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 12 

### or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 percent of 13 

### US total greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing 14 

### carbon pollution from power plants is an 15 

### essential step in lessening the impacts of 16 

### climate change and providing a more certain 17 

### future for our environment, our health, and 18 

### future generations. 19 

### We’re here today to listen to your 20 

### comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan and 21 

### model rules to implement the Clean Power Plan for 22128

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### existing power plants. 1 

### On October 23,2015 the Environmental 2 

### Protection Agency published in the Federal 3 

### Register its proposed federal plan to implement 4 

### emissions guidelines for power plants under 5 

### section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. The EPA's 6 

### 111(d) Rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 7 

### effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 8 

### affected power plants that began construction on 9 

### or before January 8th

### of 2014. 10 

### The federal plan and model trading rules 11 

### demonstrate a readily-available path forward for 12 

### Clean Power Plan implementation and present 13 

### flexible, affordable implementation options for 14


### states. 15 

### The model rules provide a cost-effective 16 

### pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 17 

### the EPA and make it easy for states and power 18 

### plants to use emissions trading. It does the 19 

### heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 20 

### model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 21 

### implement the federal plan in any state that does 22129

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### not submit an approvable plan. 1 

### The proposal includes four discrete 2 

### proposed actions, a rate-based federal plan for 3 

### each state with affected electric generating 4 

### units, or EGUs, or otherwise known as electric 5 

### generating units, a mass-based federal plan for 6 

### each state with affected EGUs, a rate-based model 7 

### trading rule for potential use by any state, and 8 

### a mass-based model trading rule for potential use 9 

### by any state. 10 

### The proposed federal plans will achieve 11 

### the same levels of emissions performance as 12 

### required of state plans under the Clean Power 13 

### Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 14 

### those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 15 

### determines has failed to submit an approvable 16 

### l11(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 17 

### in the emissions guidelines. 18 

### In those states where a federal plan may 19 

### be required, a final federal plan will implement 20 

### the same emission guidelines for affected power 21 

### plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 22130

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### would not require additional control 1 

### requirements, or impose additional costs. 2 

### Even where a federal plan is put in place 3 

### for a particular state, that state will still be 4 

### able to submit a plan, which, if approved, will 5 

### allow the state and its sources to exit the 6 

### federal plan. 7 

### States may take delegation of 8 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 9 

### order to become the primary implementers, or 10 

### submit a partial state plan in order to take over 11 

### the implementation of a portion of a federal 12 

### plan. 13 

### States operating under a federal plan may 14 

### adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 15 

### to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 16 

### benefit of power generators and consumers. 17 

### Can y’all hear me in the back? Is this 18 

### being projected? 19 

### Okay. I know my voice projects, but I’m 20 

### making sure that it’s working back there. 21 

### The proposal also includes a model rule 22131

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### for those states that are developing their own 1 

### state plans. 2 

### The EPA intends to finalize both the 3 

### rate-based and mass-based model trading rules in 4 

### the summer of 2016. A state program that adheres 5 

### to the model trading rule provisions specified in 6 

### this rulemaking, when final, would presumptively 7 

### be approvable. 8 

### There are stand-alone portions of the 9 

### model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 10 

### measurement, and verification procedures for 11 

### emission rate credits, otherwise known as ERCs, 12 

### that would be approvable even if a state adopted 13 

### an approach that differs in other respects from 14


### the model rule. 15 

### In addition, the proposal contains a 16 

### finding that, if it is necessary or appropriate 17 

### to implement a section 111(d) federal plan for 18 

### the affected EGUs located in Indian country, C02 19 

### emission performance rates for these facilities 20 

### were finalized in the Clean Power Plan. 21 

### Information on how the EPA will reach out to 22132

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### communities throughout the comment period, and an 1 

### overview of the actions that the EPA is taking to 2 

### ensure that vulnerable communities are not being 3 

### disproportionately impacted by this rule. 4 

### If you’d like more details on the 5 

### proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 6 

### the registration desk. 7 

### Before we get started, I'd like to 8 

### go through a few housekeeping items and ground 9 

### rules that will help make today's hearing run 10 

### smoothly. First, make sure that you have checked 11 

### in at the registration desk, even if you are not 12 

### planning to speak today. And if you signed in to 13 

### speak online or by phone, but haven't told us 14 

### that you're here, please step out to the 15 

### registration desk, and let the EPA staff know 16 

### that you’ve arrived. 17 

### I will call speakers up in pairs. When 18 

### your name is called, please come to the speakers' 19


### table at the front of the room. When I call on 20 

### you to speak, please state your name and spell it 21 

### for the court reporter. Your comments will be 22133

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### transcribed and included in the record of 1 

### comments on the proposed rule. The court 2 

### reporter has asked that, if you could, please 3 

### give her a copy of your written testimony to help 4 

### ensure that we have a clear record of your 5


### comments. 6 

### Each speaker will have five minutes to 7 

### give comments. We have a timer light to help you 8 

### know how much time you have left to speak. The 9 

### timer light is right here. When the light turns 10 

### from green to yellow, that means you have one 11 

### minute remaining. When it turns to red, that's a 12 

### signal that you’re at five minutes and it’s time 13 

### to stop. When you are finished speaking, please 14 

### remain at the table until the person next to you 15 

### has completed his or her testimony. 16 

### We are here to listen to you today. 17 

### However, a panel member may ask questions to 18 

### clarify your comments. I will then call up the 19 

### next set of speakers, and so on. 20 

### If you’ve brought your written testimony, 21 

### as I’ve said, please give that to the staff, to 22134

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### the court reporter before you leave today. 1 

### We also have comment cards available at 2 

### the registration desk, if you’d like to submit 3 

### additional written comments today. If you want 4 

### to comment in writing later, registration desk, 5 

### if you would like to submit additional written 6 

### comments today. If you want to comment in 7 

### writing later, stop by the materials table near 8 

### the registration desk and pick up a copy of the 9 

### instructions for submitting written comments. 10 

### Comments must be received by January 21, 2016. 11 

### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 12 

### much consideration to comments we receive in 13 

### writing as we do to comments received in public 14 

### hearings like this one. So if you have more 15 

### comments that you’d like to provide the EPA, 16 

### please submit them by the comment period. Your 17 

### comments will be reviewed. 18 

### If you have any questions during the day, 19 

### please see staff at the registration desk, and 20 

### someone will assist you. 21 

### Thank you again for taking the time today 22135

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### to share your comments on EPA’s proposal. And 1 

### let's get started. 2 

### Let me also clarify that your written 3 

### comments, if you submit them today, will be in 4 

### the official docket for the proposed rule. 5 

### The first people to testify are Dianna 6 

### Orf and Philip Huffeldt. 7 

### Please take your seats. 8 

### MS. ORF: I believe that Ms. Bratten was 9 

### supposed to be ahead of me. She was a last10 

### minute change. 11 

### MS. NOONAN: Can you wait 10 minutes, and 12 

### they’ll be done and then we’ll – 13


### MS. BRATTEN: Yes. 14 

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Okay. Thanks. 15 

### So state your name, please, and spell it. 16 

### Thank you. 17 

### MS. ORF: Thank you. My name is Dianna 18 

### Orf. The last name is spelled O-R-F. My 19 

### comments today are on behalf of the Colorado – 20


### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We can’t hear her. 21


### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We can’t hear 22136

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### anything. 1 

### MS. NOONAN: Let’s try that. 2


### MS. ORF: Is that better? Yes? 3 

### Thank you. My name is Dianna Orf. My 4 

### comments today are on behalf of the Colorado 5 

### Mining Association. 6 

### The proposed federal implementation plan 7 

### and model trading rules are like other provisions 8 

### of the Clean Power Plan, lengthy and complex. My 9 

### comments today will be set forth in more detail 10 

### as we conduct further review and submit them in 11 

### writing. 12 

### Thus far, there is the following 13



### concerns: 14 

### Although the proposed FIP, like the CPP, 15 

### touts its flexibility to states, that flexibility 16 

### is an illusion. The emission limits per state 17 

### are the same, the compliance dates are the same, 18 

### and the preamble states that, quote, “The EPA 19 

### strongly encourages states to consider adopting 20 

### one of the model trading rules to ensure 21 

### consistency between and among state programs, 22137

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### useful for a broad trading program that spans 1 

### multi-state regions, or operates on a national 2 

### basis, scale,” end quote. What’s not an illusion 3 

### is that the EPA is pushing states toward a large4 

### scale cap and trade program, one that has already 5 

### been defeated by the U.S. Congress. 6 

### The rule then goes on to state that the 7 

### compelling policy reasons for providing a 8 

### proposed model trading rule cites a strong 9 

### interest from stakeholders to provide 10 

### predictability for the state in planning. In 11 

### truth, the model trading rules are 12 

### extraordinarily complex and intrusive into the 13 

### operations of electricity-generating utilities. 14 

### This is true whether a rate-based or a mass-based 15 

### approach is used. While it’s true that EPA uses 16 

### trading rules for other Clean Air Act programs, 17 

### the trading rule proposed for CO2 appears much 18 

### more cumbersome and complex in implementation. 19 

### The preamble to the rule states that it 20 

### would be beneficial if a state that is interested 21 

### in adopting one of the model trading rules to 22138

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### indicate in its initial submittal, September 1 

### 2016, which of the trading rules, mass or rate, 2 

### it intends to adopt. This, however, comes very 3 

### close on the heels or coincides with the 4 

### publication of the model training rules. Given 5 

### the sweeping changes that were made in the Clean 6 

### Power Plan prior to its publication in final 7 

### form, a state would be ill-advised to indicate 8 

### such a choice in its initial submission based on 9 

### the proposed rules. Realistically, publication 10 

### of the model rule in summer of 2016 does not 11 

### allow adequate time for a state to make any 12 

### decision about adoption. 13 

### The proposed use of model trading rules 14 

### as a federally-enforceable backstop similarly 15 

### demonstrates the lack of flexibility in the 16 

### 111(d) rules, and underscores EPA’s intent to 17 

### force a national approach. Unlike other Clean 18 

### Air Act programs such as Regional Haze and Ozone, 19 

### the states are not individually coming up with 20 

### plans, but are being pushed into a cap and trade 21 

### program whether through -– 22139

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### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Test. 1 

### MS. ORF: -- whether through 2 

### incorporation into their own program, or through 3 

### a backstop if the state program fails to produce 4


### the mandated results. 5 

### The CPP includes a reliability safety 6 

### valve to allow EGUs to exceed their allowances in 7 

### case of emergencies where additional generation 8 

### is necessary. Even this is of dubious help, 9 

### however. If coal-fired baseload plants are 10 

### retired as a part of a state plan, those EGUs 11 

### will not be available in an emergency, and all of 12 

### the allowances in the world will not bring them 13 

### back on line. 14 

### The proposed federal plan does not 15 

### include provisions for maintaining reliability of 16 

### service. EPA reassures us that the various 17 

### utility systems and their oversight organizations 18 

### have extensive planning experience, and that EPA 19 

### will engage with those national organizations in 20 

### planning, but we are not convinced. The question 21 

### is posed, should the EPA include an allowance 22140

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### set-aside to make allowances available in 1 

### emergency circumstances where reliability would 2 

### be impacted. An allowance set-aside or other 3 

### safety valve is critical. Such emergencies 4 

### include a repeat of the 2014 polar vortex, or 5 

### possible damage and destruction of wind and solar 6 

### facilities caused by tornadoes, which are common 7 

### to some regions. 8 

### The rules dictate that utilities 9 

### designate a representative to represent and 10 

### legally bind them and the generating units in 11 

### matters concerning the trading program. The 12 

### rules further dictate including distribution on 13 

### some distributions of allowances or revocation of 14 

### ERCs which entities can be trading partners, as 15 

### well as the use of tracking systems, limitations 16 

### on types of resources that can count towards 17 

### compliance, third-party verifications, and 18 

### monitoring. Considered in total, these rules 19 

### look more and more like a nationalization of the 20 

### electric utility industry with the federal 21 

### government so firmly in control the only thing 22141

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### left for utilities to do is to pay for the 1 

### facilities and listen to customer complaints over 2 

### the increased costs. 3 

### Thank you for the opportunity to present 4


### these comments. 5 

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 6 

### MR. HUFFELDT: Hi. My name’s Philip 7 

### Huffeldt, and the first name is P-H-I-L-I-P, and 8


### last name H-U-F-F-E-L-D-T. 9 

### First, thank you to the EPA and the Obama 10 

### Administration and the President for moving 11 

### forward with the Clean Power Plan. Limiting 12 

### global warming pollution from power plants, the 13 

### single largest source of such pollution in the 14 

### United States, is a crucial step to protecting 15 

### our children and our communities from the worst 16 

### impacts from climate change. 17 

### I’m the Director of Snowriders 18 

### International, a group of skiers, boarders, and 19 

### mountain recreation enthusiasts dedicated to the 20 

### promotion of winter sports and the protection of 21 

### the environment across the globe through service, 22142

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### education, research, and advocacy. I make these 1


### statements –- 2 

### (Pause.) 3 

### MS. VIDETICH: Did you have these 4 

### problems in the morning? 5 

### (Pause.) 6 

### MS. VIDETICH: Apologize. Thank you. 7 

### MR. HUFFELDT: It’s okay. Thank you. 8


### I make these statements on behalf of 9 

### Snowriders International, and skiers, boarders, 10 

### and mountain communities across the country 11 

### concerned about their way of life in the face of 12 

### climate change. I appreciate this opportunity to 13 

### provide comments on the draft model rule for 14 

### states and the draft federal implementation plan. 15

### In the mountains we are on the front 16 

### lines of climate change, seeing decreasing snow 17 

### pack, shorter ski seasons, and everything from 18 

### severe pine beetle outbreaks to more severe and 19 

### frequent wildfires. Mountain and snow sports 20 

### communities have a lot to lose in the face of 21 

### climate change. 22143

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### According to a report from the Natural 1 

### Resource Defense Counsel and Protect Our Winters, 2 

### winter sports is an over $12 billion industry in 3 

### the US, and it accounts for over 200,000 jobs in 4 

### 38 states. Winter sports has cost the industry 5 

### over $1 billion and –- excuse me. Climate change 6 

### has cost the industry over $1 billion and 27,000 7 

### jobs since 1999. These numbers are only going to 8 

### get worse. And skier visits to ski resorts every 9 

### year amount to the twenties of millions per year. 10

### The priceless mountain and snow sports 11 

### way of life is simply a canary in the coal mine 12 

### when it comes to climate change. We’re in danger 13 

### of losing all that we love about snow sports by 14 

### the end of this century, or sooner. In many 15 

### places winter is already 20 days shorter, 16 

### according to the IPCC, and this is only the tip 17 

### of the melting iceberg. We must act on climate; 18 

### and that’s why it’s imperative that we implement 19 

### the Clean Power Plan as quickly as possible, and 20 

### accelerate our transition to clean energy. 21

### States across the country have vast 22144

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### potential to shift to clean energy. For example, 1 

### America has the potential to power itself 10 2 

### times over with the wind that blow both over land 3 

### and off the east coast. The United States has 4 

### the potential to produce more than 100 times as 5 

### much electricity from solar, photovoltaic, and 6 

### concentrating solar power. 7 

### I crossed the nation last year. A home 8 

### or business installed a solar energy system every 9 

### two point five minutes. According to the latest 10 

### solar jobs census from the Solar Foundation, the 11 

### solar industry employed more than 173,000 last 12 

### year, and remains among the most rapidly growing 13 

### sectors of the US economy. 14

### Energy efficiency offers vast untapped 15 

### potential to get more done while using less 16 

### electricity. It is our cheapest and quickest 17 

### tool to prevent global warming pollution. The 18 

### American Council for Energy Efficiency Economy 19 

### estimates that we could reduce overall energy use 20 

### across our economy by 40 to 60 percent by 2050, 21 

### even as our economy grows, by deploying better 22145

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### technology in our buildings, our industry, and 1 

### our homes. Investing in efficiency programs on 2 

### this scale would create more than a million jobs 3 

### and boost our economy on the order of hundreds of 4 

### millions of dollars per year. 5 

### In order to address the climate crisis, 6 

### we need to accelerate our progress toward 100 7 

### percent clean energy. As EPA finalizes the model 8 

### rule and the federal implementation plan, we 9 

### strongly encourage you to ensure that these 10 

### programs encourage investment in clean energy 11 

### resources such as wind, solar, and energy 12 

### efficiency as much as possible. 13

### I have a few specific recommendations on 14 

### the proposed model rule and the federal plan. 15 

### The faster EPA can finalize the model rule the 16 

### more certainty states will have as they develop 17 

### their compliance plans, and the quicker they can 18 

### move forward. We urge EPA to consider whether 19 

### some components can be finalized shortly after 20 

### the comment period closes. EPA should apply the 21 

### federal plan provisions swiftly should a state 22146

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### decline to adequately carry out its 1 

### responsibilities. We support EPA’s proposal to 2 

### issue a federal plan for any state that does not 3 

### meet one of the interim state planning 4 

### milestones, and urge EPA to do so within less 5 

### than one year after finding that the state is not 6 

### on track to submit a final state plan. EPA must 7 

### ensure the affected power plants abide by 8 

### enforceable limits on their emissions of global 9 

### warming pollution by applying effective 10 

### accountability mechanisms. 11

### Thank you again for the opportunity to 12 

### speak on behalf of concerned snow sports and 13 

### mountain communities. I appreciate EPA’s efforts 14 

### in moving forward with this proposal, and I urge 15 

### you to move forward swiftly in cleaning up our 16 

### nation’s power plants for the sake of our planet 17 

### and the priceless mountain way of life. 18

### Thank you. 19

### MS. VIDETECH: Thank you both. 20

### So we’re going to go to the next speaker, 21 

### please. 22147

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### Thank you. State your name and spell 1 

### your name. Thank you. I don’t have it here. So 2 

### I apologize for that. 3 

### MS. BRATTEN: Good morning. I am Laurie, 4 

### L-A-U-R-I-E, last name Bratten, B-R-A-T-T-E-N. 5 

### I’m here today to represent Congressman Ken Buck, 6 

### and, through him, the 750,000 residents of the 7 

### Fourth Congressional District of Colorado in 8 

### particular, and of the people of the United 9 

### States in general. I say the people because the 10 

### Congress is uniquely positioned in this country 11 

### through our Constitution. 12

### Article One of the Constitution grants 13 

### the Congress legislative and oversight authority, 14 

### and, as the only directed elected body, the right 15 

### to speak for the people. The American people 16 

### overwhelmingly oppose this Clean Power Plan. 17 

### They understand that this plan will raise 18 

### electric rates, and they also understand that it 19 

### won’t stop global warming. 20

### Many Coloradans are struggling in this 21 

### economy, and raising electrical rates will only 22148

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### make matters worse. Our office heard from an 1 

### electricity provider that one of their customers 2 

### who is struggling to make ends meet said that she 3 

### had finally figured out how to afford her 4 

### electrical bill. She would only take her 5 

### medicine every other day. Think about that. 6 

### The regulations proposed will only make 7 

### this problem a reality for more of our citizens. 8 

### Why would the EPA propose regulations that would 9 

### hurt those struggling to get by? Please 10 

### reconsider this. Drop these regulations, and, 11 

### instead work on a plan to ensure that the 12 

### nation’s second industrial revolution that 13 

### America is experiencing flourishes. 14

### Thank you. 15

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 16

### Liza Browne and Mary Jo Roth, please. 17


### And on deck are Chaz Tedesco and Joe 18 

### Montoya. 19

### MS. BROWNE: I apologize. I’m having 20 

### kind of a bad voice day, so I’m going to keep 21 

### this short and sweet for you guys. My name is 22149

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### Liza Browne, L-I-Z-A B-R-O-W-N-E. 1 

### Hello. My name is Liza Browne, and I’m 2 

### from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Thank you for this 3 

### opportunity to comment. I am an intern at the 4 

### organization Snowriders International, and I’m 5 

### here to speak in support of the EPA’s Clean Power 6


### Plan. 7 

### For decades power plants, which are the 8 

### largest source of carbon pollution, have been 9 

### allowed to dump and unlimited amounts of carbon 10 

### into our air. While the damage from the past 11 

### cannot be undone, it’s not too late to make 12 

### changes for the future. 13

### I learned how to ski in the Rocky 14 

### Mountains, like most of us here. Yesterday I was 15 

### talking to my nephew, Lam, and he told me what he 16 

### wanted to be when he grew up. He was really 17 

### excited to tell me he wanted to be a skier. 18 

### While I wanted to be excited for him, I’m worried 19 

### about the future of snow sports if things 20 

### continue as they do. 21

### My family has a history of asthma and 22150

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### respiratory illness, obviously. Just in Colorado 1 

### coal-fueled power plants contribute to 53 deaths, 2 

### 81 heart attacks, and over 1,000 asthma attacks. 3 

### Air pollution from power plants also threatens 4 

### our health by causing life-threatening illnesses 5 

### like childhood asthma, which costs us billions of 6 

### dollars each year. My family alone has spent 7 

### tens of thousands of dollars in healthcare for 8


### asthma alone. 9 

### I’m begging the EPA to ensure that the 10 

### carbon pollution standards in the model federal 11 

### plan achieve the pollution reductions promised in 12 

### the final Clean Power Plan, if not for me, for my 13 

### nephew and everybody else that wants to continue 14 

### to enjoy the natural beauty of the Rocky 15 

### Mountains, instead of having to worry about where 16 

### to keep your inhaler. 17

### Thank you. 18

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 19

### MS. ROTH: Good afternoon. My name is 20 

### Mary Jo Roth, M-A-R-Y J-O R-O-T-H. I am the 21 

### Manager of Environmental Services for Great River 22151

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### Energy. The US Environmental Protection Agency 1 

### is soliciting comments regarding its proposed 2 

### federal plan and model trading rules. 3 

### Great River Energy appreciates the 4 

### opportunity to provide brief comments at this 5 

### public hearing. We will submit more detailed 6 

### written comments by the January 21, 2016 7 

### deadline. 8 

### Great River Energy is a not-for-profit 9 

### electric generation and transmission cooperative. 10 

### We are owned by our 28 member electric 11 

### distribution cooperatives. Great River Energy 12 

### owns and operates three coal-fired plants in 13 

### North Dakota, all covered by the Clean Power 14 

### Plan. Electricity from these plants serves our 15 

### members, 660,000 member consumers, or about 1.7 16 

### million people located largely in Minnesota. 17

### The Clean Power Plan, along with the 18 

### proposed federal plan and model trading rules, 19 

### which are the subject of this hearing, constitute 20 

### perhaps the most far-reaching and complex 21 

### environmental regulation in history, and impose 22152

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### stringent goals for reduction of CO2 emissions. 1 

### We expect compliance will be difficult. 2 

### Compliance in a way that maintains reliability 3 

### and keeps energy costs as low as possible for 4 

### consumers will be even more difficult. 5 

### Nevertheless, it is Great River Energy’s goal to 6 

### focus on complying with the rule in a way that 7 

### does not compromise reliability in any way, but 8 

### that minimizes cost increases to our members and 9 

### their member consumers. 10

### Great River Energy believes it is 11 

### imperative that states develop and submit to EPA 12 

### a compliant state implementation plan, or SIP. 13 

### Great River Energy has been and will continue to 14 

### work with the states in which we do business to 15 

### develop a compliant SIP. We urge them to take 16 

### full advantage of the flexibility provided by the 17 

### Clean Power Plan, and, to that end, to consider 18 

### all appropriate actions that will retain 19 

### reliability and minimize economic impact to the 20 

### states, the utilities, and, ultimately, 21 

### electricity consumers. 22153

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### Although Great River Energy expects to be 1 

### covered by a state plan, we nevertheless offer 2 

### the following comments on EPA’s proposed federal 3 

### plan and model trading rules: Great River Energy 4 

### is concerned that safeguarding reliability is not 5 

### well-addressed in the proposed federal plan. EPA 6 

### relies on the six-year period before reductions 7 

### are required, a market-based trading program, and 8 

### consideration of reliability in developing a 9 

### final federal plan as the means to ensure 10 

### reliability. Yet many utilities, regulators, and 11 

### grid operators have expressed the need for more 12 

### detailed and thorough analysis to gauge the 13 

### rule’s effect on reliability. Reliability is 14 

### critical to the health and well-being of all 15 

### Americans. More time is necessary to evaluate 16 

### and demonstrate that the proposed plan and 17 

### assumptions are sufficient to safeguard 18 

### reliability. 19

### Great River Energy believes that trading 20 

### of emission allowances or credits is the most 21 

### economically-efficient way to implement the Clean 22154

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### Power Plan. Trading will ensure that the most 1 

### efficient plants rise to the top and continue to 2 

### provide base-load power. Therefore, we are 3 

### pleased to see that EPA is developing a model 4 

### rule that will ease the coordination of trading 5 

### among a broad number of states. We would like to 6 

### see EPA release its final trading rule as soon as 7 

### possible after the close of the comment period to 8 

### be of timely assistance to states as they develop 9 

### their SIPs. We also support the implementation 10 

### of a trading-ready federal plan in states that do 11 

### not submit their own plans. 12

### Great River Energy believes that states 13 

### should allocate all allowances or credits to the 14 

### electric utilities with cover units in that 15 

### state. Even in cases where a mass-based federal 16 

### plan is imposed, decisions about allowance 17 

### distribution should be reserved to the states. 18 

### EPA should provide for an easy way to allow 19 

### states to substitute allowance distribution in 20 

### lieu of a federal approach. With respect to a 21 

### rate-based federal plan, EPA should allow a 22155

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### broader range of emission rate credits, or ERCs, 1 

### than proposed in the model rule. For example, 2 

### EPA should include ERCs for end-use energy 3 

### efficiency, for combined heat and power 4 

### generation at non-affected units, and for waste 5 

### to energy as offsets. 6 

### Although EPA proposes two sets of set7 

### asides to address the leakage from existing units 8 

### to new units, EPA does not provide any analysis 9 

### of its proposal to demonstrate its effectiveness. 10 

### EPA should provide an analysis of its proposal, 11 

### and open that analysis up for public comment 12 

### prior to finalizing a federal plan. This issue 13 

### requires better consideration and further 14 

### discussion. 15

### MS. VIDETICH: Ms. Roth, Thank you for 16 

### your comments. Your five minutes has expired. 17 

### If you would, just please leave your testimony, 18 

### if you would. Thank you very much. 19

### MS. ROTH: Thank you very much. 20 

### Appreciate the opportunity to comment today. 21

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 22156

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### Mr. Tedesco and Joe Montoya, please. 1 

### MR. TEDESCO: Good afternoon. My name 2 

### is Chaz Tedesco, C-H-A-Z T-E-D-E-S-C-O. I want 3 

### to thank you for the time to speak with you 4 

### today. I serve as the Chairman of the Board. I 5 

### am on the Adams County Commission just north of 6 

### Denver. As a county commissioner, it is my duty 7 

### to protect the health, safety, and welfare of all 8 

### those who live and work in Adams County. 9 

### With a population of over 480,000, Adams 10 

### County ranks as among the top five largest 11 

### counties in the state, and is projected to grow 12 

### faster than any other county in the Denver Metro 13 

### area over the next two decades. Adams County has 14 

### one power plant. It’s the Cherokee Plant located 15 

### in one of our poorest neighborhoods, Globeville. 16 

### Until a recent conversion to natural gas, this 17 

### was a coal-fired plant. The effects of such a 18 

### plant so close to an urban population is 19 

### immeasurable. We can see the effects in our 20 

### kids, especially our minority and Latino 21 

### populations, which tend to be concentrated in the 22157

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### more industrial neighborhoods. The statistics 1 

### for Colorado coal-fired plants estimate 53 deaths 2 

### annually, 81 heart attacks annually, over 1,000 3 

### asthma attacks annually at a cost of over 4 

### $400,000 annually. 5 

### In Adams County the effects on our 6 

### climate can be felt in other neighborhoods. You 7 

### only need to look back to 2012 when flooding 8 

### devastated our county, along with the rest of the 9 

### state at a cost exceeding $600,000 in federal 10 

### disaster aid. 11

### Adams County has a 40 percent Latino 12 

### population, with the majority concentrated in the 13 

### southwestern portion of the county. This, 14 

### coincidentally, is exactly where our lone power 15 

### plant is located. 16

### I recently presented to the EPA in 17 

### Washington DC on their proposal for methane gas, 18 

### and was thankful the EPA would propose rules that 19 

### address meaningful regulations that keep up with 20 

### technology on a national platform. I also had 21 

### the opportunity to present to the AQCC, the Air 22158

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### Quality Control Commission, which, 1 

### coincidentally, led to the toughest air 2 

### regulations in the United States here in 3


### Colorado. 4 

### I ask you today to please ensure that the 5 

### draft model federal plan is meaningful and 6 

### enforceable. Ensure the carbon pollution 7 

### standards in the model federal plan achieve the 8 

### pollution reductions promised in the final Clean 9 

### Power Plan, or even further reductions. Ensure 10 

### that states address potential carbon pollution 11 

### from new power plants to achieve overall electric 12 

### sector reductions in carbon pollution. Protect 13 

### low-income consumers by maximizing utilities’ 14 

### incentives to invest in energy efficiency, which 15 

### lowers household energy bills. Ensure that the 16 

### model federal plan protects and benefits our 17 

### Latino, minority, low-income, and indigenous 18 

### communities that have long-borne the brunt of 19 

### fossil fuel pollution. 20

### I just want to give you some personal 21 

### facts about why I’m here. Air is not owned by a 22159

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### single individual. Everyone in this room shares 1 

### air. We share air across state lines. Even 2 

### though Colorado has some of the toughest 3 

### regulations in the nation, we’re benefitting 4 

### downwind customers, but Colorado suffers from 5 

### those others in the states that don’t follow the 6 

### same regulations that we do. We’re playing our 7 

### part here in Colorado to be a contributor to a 8 

### better air quality in the nation. We ask that 9 

### the rest of the country follow suit. And with 10 

### the proposal from the EPA and the plan laid out 11 

### through the Clean Power Plan, we can do that. 12

### I want to thank you for your time, and 13 

### your consideration today. 14

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 15

### MR. MONTOYA: Hello. My name is Joe 16 

### Montoya, J-O-E M—O-N-T-O-Y-A, and I’m a co-owner 17 

### of Namaste Solar and also a resident of Adams 18 

### County. Namaste Solar is an employee-owned 19 

### cooperative based here in Colorado. Our 20 

### cooperative enthusiastically supports the Clean 21 

### Power Plan. In addition to the benefits that it 22160

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### will provide to the environment and public 1 

### health, we also believe that it will result in 2 

### more economic benefits such as more jobs and more 3 

### work for clean energy companies like ours. 4 

### Namaste Solar has grown from three to 130 5 

### people over the last 10 years, and we’re just one 6 

### out of the many hundreds of small businesses 7 

### throughout the US that work in the clean energy 8 

### industry. Today the US solar energy –- excuse 9 

### me. Today the US solar industry employs nearly 10 

### 174,000 Americans. All of these clean energy 11 

### businesses are creating good, well-paying careers 12 

### in what will be one of the most important and 13 

### fastest growing sectors of the economy for 14


### decades to come. 15

### The cost of installing a solar electric 16 

### system has decreased by 60 to 70 percent in the 17 

### last 10 years, primarily due to economies of 18 

### scale. We believe the cost of solar can come 19 

### down even further as the market continues to grow 20 

### and the industry continues to mature. Keep in 21 

### mind that we’re currently only getting less than 22161

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### one percent of our nation’s electricity from 1 

### solar. So we’ve just scratched the surface, and 2 

### the potential for future growth and positive 3 

### impact is tremendous and still untapped. A 4 

### successful implementation of the Clean Power Plan 5 

### will help make this happen. 6 

### Thank you. 7 

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 8 

### So at this point we don’t have anyone 9 

### else at this moment to testify. Is there anyone 10 

### in the audience that would like to testify? 11

### Please. Please state your name, and 12 

### spell it. Thank you. 13

### MR. TIETELBAUM: Noah Teitelbaum, 14 

### N-O-A-H. And I wish that I had an easier last 15 

### name. Here it goes. T-E-I-T-E-L-B-A-U-M. 16

### MS. VIDETICH: It isn’t any worse than 17 

### mine. Believe me. 18

### MR. TEITELBAUM: Should I put this on? 19


### MS. VIDETICH: Please. 20

### MR. TEITELMAUM: All right. 21

### MS. VIDETICH: Or you can hold it. 22162

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### MR. TEITELBAUM: My name is Noah 1 

### Teitelbaum. I live in Denver, and I appreciate 2 

### the opportunity to comment on the proposed 3 

### federal implementation plan. I’m a member of the 4 

### Colorado Sierra Club, but today I’m here as a 5 

### father, and I’m speaking in support of the EPA’s 6 

### Clean Power Plan and to comment on the recently7 

### proposed federal implementation plan. 8 

### I’m deeply concerned about climate 9 

### change, and I’m troubled by our apparent 10 

### inability to stop adding more greenhouse gases to 11 

### our atmosphere. The environmental, political, 12 

### and public health effects of climate change are 13 

### disturbing. It’s no longer possible to dismiss 14 

### them as paranoid concerns of some errant group of 15 

### tree-huggers. These effects are clearly 16 

### realities now. 17

### An increasing number of families are 18 

### being displaced due to extreme weather events. 19 

### Coastal communities are struggling to deal with 20 

### rising sea levels. Children are suffering from 21 

### asthma at an alarming rate. I was a school 22163

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### teacher for many years, and constantly had to 1 

### deal with children having to leave my classroom 2 

### because of asthma attacks. Our seas are growing 3 

### warmer and more acidic. Will my children get to 4 

### snorkel? Will they get to see coral? And here 5 

### in Colorado drought and forest fire are now the 6 

### norm more than ever. Furthermore, as we just 7 

### heard from one of the previous speakers, every 8 

### year because of coal-fired power plants in our 9 

### state, we have an estimated 53 deaths, 81 heart 10 

### attacks, over a thousand asthma attacks, and I 11 

### believe it’s actually 400 million in healthcare 12


### costs. 13

### Now, as you well know, carbon emissions 14 

### from power plants represent 40 percent of the 15 

### total CO2 emissions in the United States. 16 

### Aggressively regulating those emissions and 17 

### creatively regulating those emissions will not 18 

### only begin to address our contribution to climate 19 

### change, it would curb the amount of conventional 20 

### and toxic air pollutants, pollutants that we know 21 

### contribute to respiratory and heart diseases. 22164

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### I am in full support of the idea that 1 

### each state can come up with their own plan. I 2 

### understand that different states have different 3 

### situations. But I’m trusting the EPA to issue a 4 

### strong federal implementation plan that delivers 5 

### on the promise of the Clean Power Plan. 6 

### I am going to reiterate some of the ideas 7 

### said by the previous speaker, but I appreciate 8 

### having them on record. Number one, I would like 9 

### to see that this plan ensures carbon pollution 10 

### standards in the federal plan, that they achieve 11 

### the same pollution reductions promised in the 12 

### final Clean Power Plan, or go even further. 13

### Two, ensure that states address potential 14 

### carbon pollution from new power plants to achieve 15 

### overall electric sector reductions in carbon 16 

### pollution. 17

### I would like to see the implementation 18 

### plan protect low-income consumers by encouraging 19 

### energy conservation. I would like to see the 20 

### plan protect and benefit especially our minority, 21 

### low-income, indigenous communities. They have 22165

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### borne the brunt of our lifestyle, our fossil fuel 1



### use. 2 

### And I would like to see a resistance to 3 

### giveaways to some of the most polluting sources. 4 

### The United States has long prided itself 5 

### on serving as a global leader. We speak very 6 

### loudly about human rights, sometimes some would 7 

### say critically. But clearly our nation has 8 

### repeatedly acted on behalf of struggling nations 9 

### and communities around the world. Now’s the time 10 

### for us to lead on making meaningful change on 11 

### climate change. Within our country, while the 12 

### hope is that states will creatively address 13 

### emissions issues, it’s the federal government 14


### that must ensure the Clean Power Plan works. We 15 

### create a government with the hope that some part 16 

### of our society will rise above shortsightedness, 17 

### and that it will serve to protect the long-term 18 

### interests of everyone. 19

### I’m sure today there are those who have 20 

### spoken who have counseled a moderate approach – 21 

### perhaps they said we should move slowly to allow 22166

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### businesses and communities to adjust. I am not a 1 

### biologist. I don’t think I did very well in 2 

### biology in school. But I am sure that 3 

### communities can adjust faster than our 4 

### environment can return to a healthy place. 5 

### They’ll also likely cite economic impact. 6 

### This is easily seen as shortsighted. The EPA 7 

### itself has said the Clean Power Plan will save 8 

### money and create jobs. There was extreme weather 9 

### events in 2011, 2012, and our state spent over 10 

### $600 million in federal disaster. I’m sure we 11 

### could have used it for something else that would 12 

### have been fun. These costs are going to rise as 13 

### climate change intensifies. No doubt. In terms 14 

### of jobs, the Clean Power Plan provides great 15 

### opportunities for economic growth and sustainable 16 

### development. The EPA estimates this plan will 17 

### deliver benefits of up to $93 billion by 2030. 18 

### Investing in clean energy clearly is going to 19 

### create jobs and fuel economic growth. But we 20 

### already know what happens if we allow power 21 

### plants to continue with the status quo. 22167

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### As a concerned citizen and father, I had 1 

### to give my voice to this today so that I could 2 

### look at them years from now and say that I at 3 

### least did something. I thank you for your 4 

### service, and I appreciate being heard. 5 

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you very much. 6 

### Next speaker would be Travis Madsen, 7 

### please. 8 

### MR. MADSEN: Hi. Thank you for giving me 9 

### the opportunity to speak today. My name is 10 

### Travis Madsen. I am the State Climate Campaign 11 

### Director at Environment America, an advocacy 12 

### organization representing several hundred 13 

### thousand members across the United States. 14

### First I would just like to thank all the 15 

### staff at EPA, the Obama Administration, and the 16 

### President for finalizing the Clean Power Plan. 17 

### It’s a crucially important step forward in what’s 18 

### going to be a long battle to prevent the worst 19 

### impacts of global warming. 20

### Not only is it going to deliver 21 

### significant progress in cleaning up the major 22168

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### source of carbon pollution in the United States, 1 

### but I think it’s also helping to position the 2 

### United States as a leader in the world, which is 3 

### crucially important as we approach the climate 4 

### talks in Paris next month. 5 

### I think every year it’s become 6 

### increasingly apparent that global warming is 7 

### happening now, and it’s affecting people across 8 

### the country. This year is going to be the 9 

### warmest in the recorded history of the planet, 10 

### human civilization. And it looks like that trend 11 

### isn’t going to stop any time soon. So we have to 12 

### take action to reduce the pollution that’s 13 

### causing global warming. 14

### States across the country have vast 15 

### resources that they can deploy to move towards 16 

### and achieve an electricity system, energy system 17 

### that does not produce global warming pollution. 18 

### We have enough solar energy resources in this 19 

### country to meet our energy needs hundreds of 20 

### times over. Wind energy, similarly, could power 21 

### the country multiple times over. And there’s a 22169

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### vast untapped potential for energy efficiency to 1 

### ensure that we’re getting more done with less 2


### energy. 3 

### So the key challenge facing us now is how 4 

### to accelerate that transition towards a 100 5 

### percent clean energy future. And as EPA 6 

### finalizes the proposed model rules and the 7 

### federal implementation plan, I’d encourage you to 8 

### look towards what steps you can take to 9 

### accelerate this process to get the most possible 10 

### reductions in carbon pollution on the shortest 11 

### timeline. 12

### I have general recommendations on that 13 

### front. First, since quick action is so 14 

### important, I encourage the EPA to look for 15 

### opportunities to finalize elements of this plan 16 

### on an expedited timeline. The more certainty 17 

### that states have and the more certainty that 18 

### power generation companies have about how all the 19 

### pieces fit together, the quicker they can start 20 

### implementing business plans that move away from 21 

### polluting fossil fuels. 22170

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### Second, I think that it’s important that 1 

### EPA be ready to step in any time a state declines 2 

### to either develop a plan to reduce pollution from 3 

### power plants, or indicates that they’re not going 4 

### to meet their responsibilities or any of the 5 

### benchmarks laid out in the rule. I think EPA 6 

### should indicate that it’s going to step in and 7 

### actually do so within a year of any state failing 8


### to meet a benchmark. 9 

### Third, I think it’s crucially important 10 

### that EPA have clear and effective enforcement 11 

### provisions in place so that states, and, in 12 

### particular, the power industry companies know 13 

### that the federal government is serious about 14 

### delivering the results promised in the standards 15 

### finalized. 16

### So to wrap up, thank you again for the 17 

### opportunity to speak. I appreciate all of the 18 

### hard work you’re putting into this, and I look 19 

### forward to helping you move forward. 20

### MS. VIDETICH: We have Kent Abernethy and 21


### Stuart Sandersen. 22171

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### And in the hall we have Matthew Strand 1


### and Deborah Schaneman. 2 

### Please state your name, and spell your 3 

### name, please, for the court reporter. 4 

### Thank you. 5 

### MR. ABERNETHY: Kent Abernethy. 6 

### MS. VIDETICH: Microphone. Microphone, 7 

### please. There you go. Thank you. 8 

### MR. ABERNETHY: Kent Abernethy, 9 

### A-B-E-R-N-E-T-H-Y, Sierra Club. 10


### MS. VIDETICH: Please. 11

### MR. ABERNETHY: Here in Colorado we have 12 

### an attorney general who claims to be doing the 13 

### people’s work and acting on behalf of the people 14 

### of Colorado in joining in a multi-state lawsuit 15 

### challenging the new federal Clean Power Plan 16 

### targeting plant emissions. Well, that’s much to 17 

### the dismay of Governor Hickenlooper, and it’s 18 

### much to the dismay of the citizens of this state 19 

### who overwhelmingly support and vote in the 20 

### interest of clean air and water. 21

### As a Colorado native, I know how much it 22172

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### is a privilege to live and Colorado. 1 

### Fortunately, most of the people who have come 2 

### here to live also appreciate the quality of life 3 

### our Colorado environment offers. Colorado is 4 

### home to the second-healthiest residents in the 5 

### country, second only to Hawaii. These rules help 6 

### us to maintain the health of our environment and 7 

### our own individual health. 8


### Efforts to thwart the Clean Power Plan 9 

### are backward thinking and dangerous to our state. 10 

### We already are feeling the impact of climate 11 

### change in the form of extreme weather, resulting 12 

### in devastating floods, and changes in how and 13 

### when and where we receive our precipitation, as 14 

### well as devastating forest fires resulting in 15 

### over $600 million in federal disaster aid. 16

### New jobs are created in working towards 17 

### lowering our carbon emissions, something we must 18 

### do. I want Colorado to be a leader, and strongly 19 

### support the Clean Power Plan. 20

### Thank you. 21

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Could you 22173

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### provide the microphone for Mr. Sandersen? It’s a 1 

### bit of a tag team here. 2 

### Thank you. 3 

### MR. SANDERSEN: Can you hear me? 4 

### MS. VIDETICH: Yes, I can. 5 

### MR. SANDERSEN: Thank you. My name is 6 

### Stuart Sandersen. I am the President of the 7 

### Colorado Mining Association, an organization 8 

### founded in 1876, whose 1,000 plus members 9 

### represent, among others, the producers of coal, 10 

### minerals throughout the West, as well as a 11 

### community of people, vendors, service providers, 12 

### equipment manufacturers, and others whose 13 

### livelihoods depend upon responsible resource 14 

### development and affordable energy. 15

### I too came to Colorado for the lifestyle, 16 

### and I think it’s ironic we have a very healthy 17 

### lifestyle in Colorado and one where the bulk of 18 

### our electricity is derived from the use of coal. 19 

### It is affordable. It is reliable. And it is by 20 

### far the most abundant source of electricity 21 

### available today. 22174

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### Our concern about the EPA regulations and 1 

### the implementation plan that is being developed 2 

### is that they suffer from the same flawed 3 

### assumptions and failure of analysis as the 4 

### original Clean Power Plan regulations. These 5 

### rules are the most expansive in the entire 6 

### history of the Clean Air Act. And rather than 7 

### setting an emission standard based upon what 8 

### available technology could achieve at individual 9 

### power plants, the EPA has constructed a 10 

### hypothetical electrical grid that would yield the 11 

### level of carbon dioxide reduction the 12 

### administration wants. In so doing, it’s adopted 13 

### unreasonable assumptions about the growth of 14 

### renewable energy in the future. 15

### In addition to these flawed estimates and 16 

### assumptions, the EPA intends to finalize this 17 

### plan just weeks after the states are required to 18 

### submit their own compliance plans for the Clean 19 

### Power Plan. We don’t think that makes any sense. 20 

### More time should be allowed. 21

### While Colorado retail electricity 22175

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### consumers have enjoyed rates at or below the 1 

### national average, that has been changing since 2 

### 2008 when the mandates for higher-cost energy and 3 

### more intermittent sources kicked in. The average 4 

### retail price that Colorado consumers pay today 5 

### for electricity has increased by more than 20 6 

### percent since that period of time due almost 7 

### entirely to the enactment of legislation or the 8 

### adoption of regulations establishing and then 9 

### tripling mandates for renewable energy 10 

### generation, together with legislation shutting 11 

### down power plants or converting them to higher12 

### cost sources of energy like natural gas. As a 13 

### result, coal production has fallen. With that, 14 

### the revenues and the royalties that support the 15 

### public school system in the State of Colorado. 16


### And to what end? 17

### There’s no reasonable end to this 18 

### process, because these regulations that have been 19 

### developed will not reduce global temperatures by 20 

### hardly one iota. In fact, Colorado isn’t even 21 

### getting credit for the actions that is has taken 22176

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### to date to convert to these higher-cost energy 1 

### sources. There’s more pain to come. 2 

### Two studies in particular show that 3 

### Colorado consumers and citizens will pay even 4 

### more in future years. The first, recently 5 

### published by Energy Ventures Analysis, and cited 6 

### by the National Mining Association, shows 7 

### wholesale rate increases of more than 19 percent. 8 

### The second by Fitch, a ratings agency, shows that 9 

### the ratings of the utilities could be threatened, 10 

### unless these costs are passed along to the 11 

### consumers. This study, called the Carbon Effect 12 

### 2.0, should raise concerns in an even more 13 

### compelling fashion because of the independent 14 

### nature of the analysis. 15

### EPA needs to reconsider these ill-advised 16 

### climate regulations. Colorado, according to the 17 

### Fitch report, will be among the hardest-hit 18 

### states in terms of having to impose costs on 19



### consumers. 20

### We need to commend Cynthia Coffman, the 21 

### Attorney General of Colorado, for filing this 22177

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### lawsuit and standing up for the rule of law in 1 

### Colorado. Given EPA’s past track record on the 2 

### Mercury Air and Toxics regulations and others, it 3 

### is highly likely that the courts will revise this 4 

### statute, this regulation. For that reason, we 5 

### believe the EPA should stay the implementation of 6 

### the Clean Power Plan regulations, and give the 7 

### states additional time to submit comments on the 8 

### FIP before they are required to submit initial 9 

### plans for compliance. 10

### This concludes the statement of the 11 

### Colorado Mining Association. I would submit 12 

### copies of this statement for the record, but also 13 

### I have a letter from the Citizens of the North 14 

### Fork, dozens and dozens of people who were not 15 

### able to be here today, expressing concern about 16 

### the impact on their community, a community where 17 

### 500 jobs have been lost just in the last few 18 

### years alone, most of that attributable to these 19


### mandates. 20

### Thank you for your time and attention. I 21 

### would like to have permission to submit these. 22178

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### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you, Mr. Sandersen. 1 

### Once again we’ve not got any speakers 2 

### registered for this time period. Is there anyone 3 

### in the audience that would like to speak? 4 

### Please. You will have five minutes. 5 

### State your name, and spell it for the court 6 

### reporter, please. 7 

### Thank you. 8 

### MR. HUNTER: Good afternoon. My name is 9


### Gerald Hunter. That’s G-E-R-A-L-D Hunter. And I 10 

### am the Manager of Environmental Policy and 11 

### Innovations of Salt River Project Agricultural 12 

### Improvement and Power District. SRP is a 13 

### political subdivision of the State of Arizona 14 

### that provides retail electric services to over 1 15 

### million residential, commercial, industrial, and 16 

### mining customers in Arizona. SRP serves these 17 

### customers with a diverse portfolio of owned and 18 

### purchased electricity resources that includes 19 

### coal, natural gas, hydroelectric, nuclear, solar, 20 

### wind, biomass, and geothermal generation. 21

### In my brief comments today, I would like 22179

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### to encourage the EPA to continue to embrace all 1 

### of the flexibility afforded by the provisions of 2 

### section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act, and I have 3 

### two specific recommendations for the proposed 4 

### final federal plan. 5 

### Specifically, SRP believes that EPA 6 

### should adopt both rate and mass-based options for 7 

### the federal plan. SRP also believes that EPA 8 

### should include mechanisms to permit trading 9 

### between rate and mass plans. As EPA notes in the 10 

### current proposal, states may simply choose to 11 

### accept a federal plan for the sources, rather 12 

### than undertake the development of a plan of their 13 

### own by not submitting a state plan. If EPA does 14 

### not finalize both plan approaches to the federal 15 

### plan, it limits the utility of this option for 16


### the states. 17

### While SRP thinks that it is vastly 18 

### preferable for states to craft their plans to 19 

### comply with the final emission guidelines, we can 20 

### envision scenarios where, due to certain factors 21 

### such as lack of resources or time constraints, 22180

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### that states may not be able to draft final 111(d) 1 

### compliance plans by EPA’s September 6, 2018 2 

### deadline. In such instances where EPA or a state 3 

### decides to implement a federal plan, it is still 4 

### important to recognize that each state has unique 5 

### circumstances. A one-size-fits-all approach to a 6 

### federal plan may not be in the best interest of 7 

### the states, or the overarching need to preserve a 8 

### stable, reliable, and cost-effective energy 9 

### supply for US electric customers. 10

### Preserving the option to pursue either a 11 

### rate-based or mass-based federal plan offers a 12 

### path that would reduce the destruction associated 13 

### with imposition of a federal plan, as EPA can 14 

### better match a plan option to each state’s 15 

### current and ending emissions reduction 16 

### strategies, as well as each state’s economic 17


### forecast. 18

### An important complement to finalizing 19 

### both the rate and mass federal plan is to allow 20 

### trading between rate and mass-based plans, which 21 

### will enhance the ability of the Clean Power Plan, 22181

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### or CPP, to achieve its stated goals. The EPA has 1 

### stated in the proposed plan that the agency was 2 

### unable to develop an approach to accommodate this 3 

### type of plan trading. But SRP feels strongly 4 

### that such trading is possible. 5 

### Trading between rate and mass-based plans 6 

### can produce a more robust overall trading market, 7 

### and can be particularly advantageous to entities 8 

### like SRP, which have emission-generating units, 9 

### or UGUs, in multiple states. SRP has ownership 10 

### of EGUs in Arizona, Colorado, and on the Navajo 11 

### Nation. Allowing broad trading between rate and 12 

### mass plans provides states and tribal entities 13 

### more flexibility to structure compliance plans 14 

### better tailored to their own needs, and reduce 15 

### adverse impacts. 16

### One potentially simple path to trading 17 

### between rate and mass-based states is to allow 18 

### EGUs in mass-based states to sell allowances to 19 

### EGUs in rate-based states. These allowances 20 

### would then be used to reduce the emissions in the 21 

### numerator of the rate calculation. This ensures 22182

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### a clear one-for-one reduction in carbon 1 

### emissions, and both states can easily demonstrate 2 

### compliance. No unique or complicated efforts are 3 

### required to track or enable this type of transfer 4 

### since both rate and mass-based states must have 5 

### EPA-approved accounting systems for measuring and 6 

### tracking carbon emissions. 7 

### In reverse direction, EPA already 8 

### proposed to permit the sale of renewable energy 9


### from a rate-based state to a mass-based state. 10 

### While this is not technically an allowance trade, 11 

### the renewable energy when delivered would replace 12 

### a portion of EGU output, and, therefore, reduce 13 

### carbon emissions in the mass-based state. 14

### SRP plans to provide more detailed 15 

### written comments on these and other possible 16 

### methods to enable trading between rate and mass17 

### based plans, as well as comments on other aspects 18 

### of the proposed federal plan. I would like to 19 

### close my remarks by reaffirming SRP’s support for 20 

### each state to craft its own 111(d) compliance 21 

### plan. 22183

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### But in the event a federal plan approach 1 

### is needed, it is best for EPA to finalize both 2 

### rate-based and mass-based options, and allow for 3 

### trading between rate-based and mass-based plans. 4 

### Such an approach can address local circumstances, 5 

### significantly mitigate the economic impacts of 6 

### this regulation, and ensure and effective 7 

### implementation of the goals envisioned in the 8


### Clean Power Plan. 9 

### Thank you. 10

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. I would just 11 

### ask that when you all submit your comments I’m 12 

### particularly interested in how you would do the 13 

### conversion or the trading between rate and mass. 14 

### And if you could give us some examples of how 15 

### that would work, actually go through a problem, 16 

### that would be very helpful. 17

### Thank you. 18

### Now I need to apologize to Mr. Strand and 19 

### Ms. Schaneman. Would you please come forward and 20 

### provide your testimony? I lost your card here in 21 

### the middle of everything that’s up here. I’m 22184

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### sorry. 1 

### Is Deborah Schaneman here, please? 2 

### Thank you. 3 

### MR. STRAND: Am I first? 4


### MS. VIDETICH: Sure. 5 

### MR. STRAND: Okay. My name is Mark 6 

### Strand, and I’m an Associate Professor of 7 

### Biostatistics. 8 

### MS. VIDETICH: Can you spell your name, 9 

### please? 10

### MR. STRAND: M-A-T-T-H-E-W, Strand, 11


### S-T-R-A-N-D. 12

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 13

### MR. STRAND: I’m an Associate Professor 14 

### of Biostatistics. I work in-house at National 15 

### Jewish Health, and I have an affiliated 16 

### appointment at the University of Colorado Denver 17 

### in the Department of Biostatistics. 18

### First off, I’d just like to say Colorado 19 

### has been given the opportunity to support the 20 

### Clean Power Plan with a goal to reduce carbon 21 

### emissions by about 30 percent within the next 15 22185

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### years, and I hope our state commits to adopting 1 

### this plan. 2 

### Personally, I have performed analyses as 3 

### a part of my job to study relationships between 4 

### air pollution and health. Results of these 5 

### analyses published in journals in recent years 6 

### have shown relationships between particulate 7 

### matter and acute health effects on children with 8 

### asthma in Denver. A stronger move towards clean 9 

### power would not only help clean our air for more 10 

### vulnerable populations, but it would create a 11 

### healthier environment for all of us. 12

### However, my interest in clean power goes 13 

### well beyond short-term health effects of air 14 

### pollution. I believe that plans to reduce 15 

### greenhouse gases is of great urgency, given the 16 

### scientific research that has shown strong 17 

### evidence that human-created greenhouse gases are 18 

### altering our climate, with greater effects likely 19 

### in the future, if we don’t take immediate 20



### measures. 21

### Reducing greenhouse gas emissions should 22186

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### be a global effort. But that effort needs to 1 

### start somewhere. Adopting the plan at the state 2 

### level gives us the perfect opportunity to take 3 

### action. Along with other states that are already 4 

### behind the plan, we can start changes that will 5 

### likely have a domino effect, not only within the 6 

### US, but around the world. 7 

### By taking action, we can slow the 8 

### increase of greenhouse gases that affect our 9 

### climate, and reduce the risk of higher 10 

### temperatures, drought, and other extreme weather 11 

### events. The action we take is a matter of 12 

### degree. The more action we take now, the more we 13 

### will be able to reduce climate change from human 14 

### sources. In addition, with such action, we will 15 

### accelerate the growth of cleaner, more 16 

### technologically-advanced sources of energy. The 17 

### cost of making changes now could be relatively 18 

### minimal compared to the costs we pay later if we 19 

### ignore it. 20

### Although climate change may lead to 21 

### consequences at the global level, in our state we 22187

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### could also see consequences. This is a partial 1 

### list: sustained drought, increased wildfires, 2 

### and other extreme weather events, reduced snow, 3 

### impact on the ski industry, as well as impact on 4 

### our economy in general. 5 

### By reducing carbon emissions over the 6 

### coming years, not only will we reduce greenhouse 7 

### gases, we will also decrease local air pollution 8 

### that has more immediate, acute effects on health 9 

### of the people in our state. By ignoring the 10 

### opportunities to make changes, we could be facing 11 

### greater, even catastrophic consequences later. I 12 

### would like to take action now for the sake of my 13 

### children, and my children’s children. 14

### In summary, I’d like to reiterate my 15 

### strong support for the State of Colorado to take 16 

### initiative and get behind the Clean Power Plan. 17 

### We can start to make a difference now for 18


### Colorado and the world. 19

### Thank you. 20

### MS. SCHANEMAN: My name is Deborah 21 

### Schaneman, D-E-B-O-R-A-H S-C-H-A-N-E-M-A-N. I’m 22188

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### the Environmental Services and Compliance 1 

### Director for Platte River Power Authority in Fort 2 

### Collins, Colorado. Thank you for the opportunity 3 

### to comment on the important issue of carbon 4 

### emissions. 5 

### Platte River Power Authority is a 6 

### political subdivision of the State of Colorado. 7 

### Platte River was formed in 1975 by the 8 

### municipalities of Estes Park, Fort Collins, 9 

### Longmont, and Loveland. Their singular purpose, 10 

### providing wholesale power and transmission 11 

### service to these communities. Like the municipal 12 

### utilities it serves, Platte River is a non-profit 13 

### municipal utility. 14

### Through a joint action, the four member 15 

### communities hoped to take advantage of economies 16 

### of scale associated with larger generation units. 17 

### Our fundamental resource decisions were made in 18 

### the late 1970s and this resulted in a resource 19 

### portfolio that was and is heavily reliant on 20


### coal. 21

### In 2013 the Platte River Board of 22189

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### Directors adopted a strategic plan to analyze 1 

### diversification of our resource portfolio. Among 2 

### the reasons for diversification was the desire to 3 

### reduce carbon emissions. The strategic planning 4 

### process is ongoing, and subsequent to the release 5 

### of the Clean Power Plan rule, our board refined 6 

### our resource strategy by instructing staff to 7 

### employ an adaptive strategy to cost-effectively 8 

### maintain reliability, manage risk, and ensure 9 

### regulatory compliance, a key component of which 10 

### is compliance with the Clean Power Plan. 11

### Although I’ve been immersed in this issue 12 

### since June 2, 2014, as have numerous other staff 13 

### members of Platte River, as an organization 14 

### Platte River is still analyzing this complex set 15 

### of rules. Platte River intends to be fully 16 

### engaged in the rulemaking process, and plans to 17 

### file detailed written comments at a later date. 18

### Platte River does not anticipate that 19 

### Colorado will default to a federal plan 20 

### implemented by the EPA. But because the EPA is 21 

### strongly encouraging states to consider adopting 22190

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### one of the presumptively approvable model trading 1 

### rules at issue at the present hearings, it’s 2 

### important that these rules are reasonable and 3


### workable. 4 

### In the time allotted today, I will focus 5 

### on our main concerns with the federal plan 6 

### requirements and model trading rules. 7 

### First, Platte River has serious concerns 8 

### about the treatment of allocations to generation 9 

### units that are retired as a compliance strategy. 10 

### If left unchanged, the rules will penalize 11 

### utilities that are undertaking bona fide yet 12 

### prudent efforts at compliance through 13 

### modification of their resource portfolios. 14

### As a starting point, we agree that 15 

### providing allocations to retired units for a 16 

### period of time will incentivize early unit 17 

### retirement, and, consequently, is a good policy. 18 

### However, the proposed federal plan does not 19 

### provide a sufficient post-retirement allocation 20 

### period, nor does it provide allocations to 21 

### retirement shutdowns prior to 2019. 22191

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### Platte River recommends that the EPA 1 

### distribute allowances to the non-operating unit 2 

### owner or owners for the longer of the next 3 

### compliance period, or the remaining useful life 4 

### of the unit. Units that would otherwise be 5 

### retired due to age and inefficiency would receive 6 

### limited allocations, but owners that engage in 7 

### early retirements to achieve compliance 8 

### obligations would receive allocations for a 9 

### period of time corresponding with the useful life 10 

### of the unit. 11

### Second, Platte River is concerned with 12 

### proposals to distribute allowances to parties 13 

### that do not have direct compliance 14 

### responsibilities. We recommend that allowances 15 

### be allocated only to affected unit owners, and 16 

### not to entities without compliance obligations 17 

### under the rules. Allowances are instrumental to 18 

### compliance and should be reserved for those 19 

### entities with compliance obligations. The Clean 20 

### Power Plan is ambitious, and compliance is likely 21 

### to be costly. Distribution of allowances to 22192

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### entities who are not responsible for compliance 1 

### will likely create an opportunity for 2 

### speculation, thus unnecessarily increasing the 3 

### costs of compliance. 4 

### Third, in the context of rate-based 5 

### systems, there should be recognition that the 6 

### holder of a power purchase agreement with a 7 

### renewable generation source is entitled to the 8 

### emission rate credits. This issue is common with 9 

### public power systems that are tax exempt. Simply 10 

### put, because the public power systems are tax 11 

### exempt, they typically don’t own renewable 12 

### generation, but rather enter into long-term power 13 

### supply agreements with an entity that can take 14 

### advantage of the tax incentives. These long-term 15 

### purchase agreements support the development of 16 

### the renewable resource, and the party purchasing 17 

### the output should receive the ERCs. 18

### In summary, carbon emissions are a 19 

### significant issue. It is reasonable to expect 20 

### utilities to assist in meeting the challenge 21 

### involved in curbing emissions. To ensure the 22193

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### smoothest possible implementation, the final rule 1 

### must be fair and subject to effective, but 2 

### flexible implementation by the states. It’s 3 

### important to ensure that the final rule avoids 4 

### implementation pitfalls that fail to recognize 5 

### the practical realities of resource portfolio 6 

### management and reliable utility operation. 7 

### Thank you again for the opportunity to 8


### comment. 9 

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 10

### MR. SWANSON: Could you spell Platte for 11 

### me, please? 12


### MS. SCHANEMAN: P-L-A-T-T-E. 13

### MR. SWANSON: Thank you. 14

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 15

### Next up will be Kara Cook and Russell 16 

### Bassett, followed by Alec Sprague, please. 17

### If you would, please state you name, 18 

### spell your name, and you each have five minutes. 19

### Thank you. 20

### MS. COOK: My name is Kara Cook, K-A-R-A 21 

### C-O-O-K. The reason that –- thank you so much 22194

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### for having me here today. 1 

### MS. VIDETICH: Can you use your 2 

### microphone? 3 

### Thank you. 4 

### MS. COOK: Thank you so much for having 5 

### me here today. The reason that I am actually 6 

### here is because starting from when I was a very 7 

### small child growing up on a ranch I cared deeply 8 

### about the environment. It was something that I 9 

### could share with my whole family. You know, we’d 10 

### go outside together, see the beautiful landscape, 11 

### have healthy food that we could eat straight off 12 

### the farm, and in general it was a great way to 13 

### grow up. And so I wanted everyone in the world 14 

### to have that kind of experience. 15

### When I graduated from college, I went to 16 

### China to teach English, and it was a fantastic 17 

### experience for me because I was able to meet not 18 

### only the people in China, but I was also able to 19 

### experience the horrible pollution problems in 20 

### China, the horrible coal plant problems in China, 21 

### and see how people lived in a society and an 22195

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### environment where things weren’t as clean as how 1 

### I grew up. And I was also able to see that 2 

### people in other countries were just as concerned 3 

### about these issues as we were, and they wanted to 4 

### know what we were going to do about it. 5 

### And so I was really excited when I heard 6


### about the Clean Power Plan because I knew we’re 7 

### going to do something about it, we’re going to 8 

### make a huge change, we’re going to make an impact 9 

### and be a leader in the world. And that’s why I 10 

### was really excited also to move to Colorado. I 11 

### knew that Colorado – from researching, I knew 12 

### that Colorado was a leader in things like solar 13 

### energy and in clean power. I wanted to live 14 

### here. I wanted to have that same environment for 15 

### my kids someday that I grew up with. 16

### And I think it’s amazing what Governor 17 

### Hickenlooper and what the CDPHE has done here in 18 

### Colorado as far as pushing forward a plan for the 19


### Clean Power Plan. And I want to make sure the 20 

### EPA supports their plans for pushing for clean 21 

### energy in Colorado. As part of that, I really 22196

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### think that the EPA should provide model 1 

### regulatory frameworks for states so that states 2 

### can move forward quickly with implementing the 3


### Clean Power Plan. 4 

### I also think that it’s important that 5 

### Colorado have access to the Clean Energy 6 

### Incentive Program, which would unlock a lot of 7 

### powerful tools that could be accessible by 8 

### utility companies here in Colorado, by local 9 

### governments, and by low-income communities, and 10 

### energy providers. 11

### And I think that if we do those things 12 

### that we’ll be able to see the kind of future that 13 

### I experienced in the past, and that will make me, 14 

### you know, continue to be proud to live here in 15 

### Colorado and to be an American. 16

### So thank you so much for having me here 17 

### today. 18

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 19

### MR. BASSETT: Hello. My name’s Russell 20 

### Bassett. If you think there might be a double 21 

### consonant, there is. 22197

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### MS. VIDETICH: And if you’d spell it, 1 

### that would help. 2


### MR. BASSETT: R-U-S-S-E-L-L 3 

### B-A-S-S-E-T-T. I live in Westminster, Colorado. 4 

### I’ve been working in conservation, specifically 5 

### fish conservation for 10 years, and I came about 6 

### it because I love to fish. That’s been a passion 7 

### of mine since I can remember, and it’s just 8 

### something that every weekend I’m up in the 9 

### mountains, whether it’s fly fishing, or gear 10 

### fishing, and right now it’s about to switch into 11 

### ice fishing. That’s just kind of who I am. 12

### And my work involves giving back to that, 13 

### what gives me so much enjoyment, and so much 14 

### pleasure. I also spend a lot of time 15 

### volunteering with veterans to get them out there 16 

### and have them have that same experience and have 17 

### a coping mechanism for dealing with the stressors 18 

### of coming back into civilian life after being in 19



### a war zone. 20

### But I want to thank you so much for 21 

### finalizing the carbon pollution limits through 22198

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### the Clean Power Plan. You provided much needed 1 

### standards for limiting carbon pollution. And I’m 2 

### really proud to live in a state that’s not -– 3 

### well, minus our attorney general – is already 4 

### kind of on the steps of what needs to be done to 5


### be where we need to be to meet these 6 

### requirements. And I’m glad to be in a state 7 

### that’s that way. 8 

### I encourage you to finalize the 9 

### implementation as soon as you can to get this 10 

### process over with. And then I also strongly 11 

### encourage you to enforce these rules. I work in 12 

### a lot of Clean Water Act situations, and I know 13 

### you get sued a lot for not enforcing Clean Water 14 

### Act rules in a lot of different states. I’ve 15 

### been involved in some of those suits. And so I 16 

### would just hope that that doesn’t happen in this 17 

### case, that you’re enforcing from the get go, and 18 

### not having to have environmental groups come in 19 

### and sue you to enforce these rules that you’ve 20 

### created. So I would encourage you to strongly 21


### enforce those rules. 22199

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### I actually came here to talk to you about 1 

### the pine bark beetle. When I’m up in the 2 

### mountains –- about half our forests here in 3 

### Colorado are literally dead, and it’s really 4 

### disheartening to me and worrisome that this is 5 

### going on. And when I talk to folks about it, 6 

### they’re just kind of, “Well, you know, here in 7 

### Colorado” –- it’s not really –- to me it’s an 8 

### epidemic that’s on not just here in Colorado, but 9 

### on a national scale. Sure we’ve had flare-ups of 10 

### pine beetles before, but this is 10 times larger 11 

### than we’ve ever seen. And everything I have read 12 

### about it is it’s due to climate change. Three 13 

### main reasons: One, the flight time –- the 14 

### springs are warmer, so the flight time during 15 

### their life history, these beetles have more time 16 

### to find trees. The winters aren’t cold enough. 17 

### It needs to be like negative 30 degrees to kill 18 

### them off. And, three, the trees are not strong 19 

### enough because of drought and dry conditions, 20 

### their natural defense mechanisms, which are 21 

### pretty neat, to kill off these pine beetles. So 22200

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### it’s kind of this perfect storm that’s created 1 

### really an epidemic in the western United States. 2 

### And we seem to be here in Colorado on the tail 3 

### end of that. Like the peak of the mountain pine 4 

### beetle was ‘08, ‘09, and now it’s gotten less. 5 

### But in terms of -- not just Colorado, but on the 6 

### 10 western states where this beetle has become an 7 

### epidemic and two Canadian provinces, it’s now 8 

### able to survive in higher elevations, farther 9 

### north. It’s now moving into pine tree species 10 

### that didn’t used to have pine bark beetle. And 11 

### as if that wasn’t enough, we now have the spruce 12 

### beetle, which is attacking our spruce and fir, 13 

### and we now have about half a million acres of 14 

### infested spruce and fir trees, and that’s on top 15 

### of the million acres already dead, and that’s 16 

### just here in the state, from the pine beetle. 17

### And it’s not just tree-hugging trout 18 

### kissers like me that should care about this. 19 

### This affects floods. You know, if you don’t have 20 

### the trees in place to contain the soil, you’ve 21 

### got flooding issues. There’s wildfire issues. 22201

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### You know, you’ve got downed power lines. This is 1 

### just something that a lot of people should care 2 

### about, not just folks like me that really, really 3 

### care about fish. It certainly does affect 4


### humans. 5 

### Well, I think I pretty much said 6 

### everything I was going to read. So just, in 7 

### closing, I would like to thank you once again for 8 

### the Clean Power Plan, and please finalize these 9 

### implementation rules as soon as possible. Then I 10 

### respectfully encourage you to enforce these rules 11 

### once they’re in place. 12

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 13

### Mr. Sprague, correct? 14


### MR. SPRAGUE: Correct. 15

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Please restate 16 

### your name. You’ve got five minutes. And, if you 17 

### would, spell it for the court reporter. 18

### Thank you. 19

### MR. SPRAGUE: Absolutely. Alec Sprague 20 

### is A-L-E-C S-P-R-A-G-U-E. 21

### All right. I work and live here in 22202

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### Denver. I’m also an Environment Colorado 1 

### supporter, which is a citizen group here in 2 

### Colorado. First, thank you so much for the time 3 

### to speak, and thank you, EPA, for taking action 4 

### to finalize the cleaner standards for carbon 5 

### pollution limits. This is something I’ve been 6 

### passionate about for a very long time. 7 

### A few years ago I got an opportunity to 8 

### work as a community organizer in Cincinnati, 9 

### Ohio, and I met hundreds of people and spoke with 10 

### hundreds of people that were affected by air 11 

### pollution in Cincinnati. A woman whose baby had 12 

### asthma, and an entire family who had respiratory 13 

### problems lived near one of these plants. A lot 14 

### of these people didn’t, you know, probably 15 

### consider themselves to be environmentalists, but 16 

### they knew that something needed to be done. 17

### You don’t need to live next to a coal18 

### fired power plant to feel the effects of, you 19 

### know, carbon fuel, global warming, and extreme 20 

### weather. A couple of years ago I was in Chicago, 21 

### and it was extreme weather, and wind chills of 22203

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### negative thirties, negative forties. I grew up 1 

### in Chicago, and the city never shuts down. The 2 

### city shut down that day. Unfortunately, I was 3 

### sick and had to see a doctor, so I had to go out 4 

### in it. We’ve seen it here in Colorado too with 5 

### shorter ski seasons, wildfires. We’ve seen it 6 

### all over the country. 7 

### Colorado here has been a leader in 8 

### reducing emissions through policies that have 9 

### spurred economic growth. So I want to thank you 10 

### for giving states flexibility to come up with 11 

### their own plans here. 12

### I also want to urge you to give 13 

### incentives to states to create those plans to 14 

### increase renewables, to increase energy 15 

### efficiency, and to implement them quickly. 16

### Thank you so much. 17

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 18

### So once again we’ve come to a point where 19 

### we don’t have any speakers lined up. Is there 20 

### anyone in the audience that would like to speak 21 

### right now? 22204

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### MR. KOLDENSCHLAG: Thank you. I was 1 

### signed up for tomorrow, but I’ll just go ahead 2 

### and speak, if that’s all right. 3 

### MS. VIDETICH: Sure. Would you let the 4 

### folks know when you’re done today that you’re 5 

### speaking today, and they’ll take you off 6 

### tomorrow’s list. 7


### MR. KOLDENSCHLAG: Out front or –- 8 

### MS. VIDETICH: Yes, at the registration 9 

### desk. Thank you. So state your name, please. 10 

### Spell it for the court reporter, and you have 11 

### five minutes. 12

### Thank you. 13

### MR. KOLDENSCHLAG: Thank you. I will 14 

### have to send in written comments. I was going to 15 

### write them up tonight, but I’m going off on a 16


### tear. 17

### Pete Koldenschlag, and the last name is 18 

### spelled K-O-L-D-E-N-S-C-H-L-A-G. 19

### MS. VIDETICH: You win the prize. 20

### MR. KOLDENSCHLAG: It’s my dad’s fault. 21

### Thank you very much for this opportunity. 22205

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### I work as a consultant in western Colorado. I’m 1 

### doing quite a bit of work on climate change 2 

### issues. I wanted to talk quickly about where I 3 

### come from, the North Fork of Colorado. For 100 4 

### years it has been a coal-dependent community. 5 

### It’s also a big agricultural community. 6 

### We have lost a lot of mining jobs there 7 

### in the last year. Despite some earlier 8 

### testimony, 350 of those miners from the Oxbow 9 

### mine were let go because of a thermal event, a 10 

### mine fire. About 200 miners have been let go 11 

### from Bowie. A portion of those were from a 12 

### cancelled TVA contract. So it certainly didn’t 13 

### have anything to do with RES standards put in 14 

### place in Colorado. It may have had something to 15 

### do with some national policies the TVA was 16 

### responding to. The last 80 or so miners that 17 

### were laid off from Bowie were laid off because 18 

### Bowie did not get a longwall moved in time. So 19 

### as an almost 20-year resident of the North Fork, 20 

### I am very concerned about my community and 21 

### keeping jobs there and workers there. 22206

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### But there’s a lot going on in energy 1 

### markets globally right now. So to pretend that 2 

### what we see in the North Fork is happening 3 

### because of our nation, our president, and really 4 

### global response to the climate crisis is just not 5 

### accurate on the ground in the North Fork. I just 6 

### wanted to clear that up. 7 

### Solar Energy International is also 8 

### located in the North Fork. They’re a leading 9 

### trainer of installations for solar projects all 10 

### around the world. They do a lot of work with the 11 

### Department of Defense training returning vets. 12 

### They work a lot in Latin America, and in 13 

### developing countries, as well as in developed 14 

### countries. 15

### Where I live I am a member of an 16 

### electrical cooperative, the Delta-Montrose 17 

### Electrical Association. We are very excited as 18 

### co-op members, and our co-op is very excited 19 

### about the opportunities that the Clean Power Plan 20 

### presents to us. We have tremendous micro-hydro 21 

### potential there. There is a project you may be 22207

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### familiar with that kind of led to the whole 1 

### challenge to -– the DMEA challenged the 2 

### requirement that we limit the amount of 3 

### electricity we produce locally because of our 4 

### contract with Tri-State. We challenged that with 5 

### the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, FERC. 6 

### The DMEA won, meaning we can start buying more 7 

### power locally from qualifying facilities. That’s 8 

### very exciting for our cooperative because we have 9 

### tremendous micro-hydro potential, tremendous 10 

### solar potential. We have those. 11

### Coal mines that are emitting methane now 12 

### and are going to continue to emit methane for 13 

### decades and decades, we don’t need to mine the 14 

### coal, but we can capture that methane and recycle 15 

### that energy, and diminish the contribution it’s 16 

### making to climate change by converting it to 17 

### power. It’s still a carbon fuel, but it’s better 18 

### than just emitting it, and we now have that 19 

### opportunity. 20

### And so there’s tremendous excitement in 21 

### my valley among board members of DMEA and lots of 22208

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### rate-payers for what we see is the way forward 1 

### because we can look at global markets and -- 2 

### despite the fear-mongering, and some things that 3 

### we hear from the coal industry, we can look at 4 

### global markets and see what’s happening to coal 5 

### all around the world. We’re interested in moving 6 

### into our future, and not trying to hang onto a 7 

### past that doesn’t exist anymore. 8 

### But today I’m really speaking on behalf 9 

### of an entity called the Colorado Farm and Food 10 

### Alliance. It is kind of an ad hoc alliance of 11 

### about 15 farm and food organizations, over 50 12 

### farms, ranches, food producers, breweries, 13 

### wineries, and people involved in the farm-to14 

### table economy and movement here in Colorado. We 15 

### work on resource issues. The idea is to connect 16 

### farm-to-plate advocacy with resource issues. 17 

### We’re very concerned about the impacts to 18 

### agriculture from climate change in western 19 

### Colorado. That would be drought. The gentleman 20 

### that spoke before about pine beetles and dry 21 

### forests not only becoming more susceptible to 22209

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### pests, they burn, and that’s whether they’re 1 

### alive or dead. When forests dry out they burn. 2 

### So we’re concerned about wildfire. We’re 3 

### concerned about drought, and we’re concerned 4 

### about the impacts of erratic weather because we 5 

### live in, like I said, an agricultural region. 6 

### We’re known worldwide certainly in Colorado for 7 

### our awesome fruit, organic and otherwise. Of 8 

### course, fruit is very susceptible. If you have a 9 

### warm winter, early bloom. We live at 6,000 feet. 10 

### It always freezes in May. It doesn’t matter how 11 

### warm the winter is. We lose our fruit when that 12 

### happens. It’s a big issue for people in my 13 

### valley. 14


### And I want to thank the EPA and the Obama 15 

### Administration for taking this on. It’s huge. 16 

### I’m proud of Colorado’s leadership on the issue. 17 

### The federal government needs to make sure that 18 

### the federal implementation plan is also strong 19 

### and that it incentivizes communities like my own 20


### to move towards a better future because we’re 21 

### ready for it on the ground. We really are. So 22210

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### thank you. 1 

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 2 

### MR. KOLDENSCHLAG: And I’ll send in some 3 

### written comments. 4 

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 5 

### Is there anyone else that would like to 6 

### comment at this time? 7 

### As we have no speakers on the docket at 8 

### the moment, we will take a 10-minute break and 9 

### resume at quarter to three. 10

### Thank you. 11

### (Whereupon, at 2:35 p.m., a brief recess 12 

### was taken, to reconvene at 2:50 p.m.) 13

### MS. VIDETICH: So I’m going to reconvene 14 

### this public hearing on the federal plan and model 15


### rules for the Clean Power Plan. We have one 16 

### speaker that is lined up right now, Sean Work, if 17


### Sean could come forward. 18

### Just for those of you in the audience to 19 

### know, we have a whole host of folks that are 20 

### signed up to speak today, and they are not 21 

### showing up. So we may be taking a lot of breaks 22211

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### as we go, but we certainly want to accommodate 1 

### the speakers that are here. 2 

### So, Mr. Work, if you would, please come 3 

### forward. Please state your name, spell your name 4 

### for the court reporter, and you’ll have five 5 

### minutes. 6 

### MR. WORK: Should I sit over here or -– 7 

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. Please use the 8 

### microphone. 9 

### MR. WORK: Hello. My name is Sean Work. 10


### That’s S-E-A-N W-O-R-K. 11

### First I want to thank you for this 12 

### opportunity to speak. I’ll tell you a little bit 13 

### about myself. I’m a student at the University of 14 

### Northern Colorado, and I’ve been living in 15 

### Greeley for six years now. During that time I’ve 16 

### seen Greeley, or Weld County in general become a 17 

### center of the fossil fuel industry, namely, 18 

### hydraulic fracking. 19

### A lot of people, you know, tout hydraulic 20 

### fracking as sort of the clean alternative to 21 

### traditional fossil fuels because it burns a lot 22212

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### cleaner. But I’m here to, you know, point out 1 

### that that’s not really the truth, and show 2 

### support for renewable energy, and solar, and wind 3 

### energy. So I just want to say that, you know, 4 

### hydraulic fracking causes a lot of problems in 5 

### terms of the chemicals used. 6 

### In Colorado in 2013 there were almost 500 7 

### chemical spills from hydraulic fracking, and it’s 8 

### just not a -– it’s more than one per day, and 9 

### many of those spills actually go unreported. So 10 

### there’s even more than that. Also additionally, 11 

### you know, there were explosions, multiple 12 

### explosions caused by and related to the fracking 13 

### industry in the past year. And it really –- you 14 

### know, a lot of people want to use the natural gas 15 

### produced by hydraulic fracking to kind of offset 16 

### our current fossil fuel system, especially, like, 17 

### coal power because it burns a lot cleaner, but 18 

### the chemicals used in it are just too polluting 19 

### and -– sorry. I’m really nervous. I just –- I 20 

### just don’t think that –- what people want to use 21 

### fracking for is kind of like the transition fuel, 22213

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### and it’s really not viable. 1 

### It would make much more sense to just 2 

### switch to renewable energies, and that’s why I 3 

### think the Clean Power Plan is such a good 4 

### initiative, because if we can use the solar and 5 

### wind energy that’s inherent in the Colorado 6 

### environment -- I mean Colorado is the fourth 7 

### highest state in potential solar energy, and we 8 

### could generate up to 300,000 megawatts through 9 

### wind energy. So Colorado is in a unique position 10 

### to have massive potential for renewable energies. 11

### Weld County, where I live is, you know, 12 

### currently focused on fracking, and they’re 13 

### currently initiating –- you know, it’s become the 14 

### number one source for fossil fuels in Colorado, 15 

### and possibly the nation. And I just think that 16 

### with the Clean Power Plan we could see a new 17 

### initiative to bring those renewable energies, 18 

### especially those in Weld County. But in the 19 

### winter it’s definitely got a lot of wind. And 20 

### there’s just so much potential for wind and solar 21 

### energy in our state, and it just doesn’t make 22214

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### sense to be using any or developing any sort of 1 

### infrastructure besides those two. Not to mention 2 

### those natural gas deposits are temporary and are 3 

### going to disappear eventually, so it’s only a 4 

### temporary measure. Weld County is experiencing a 5 

### massive economic boom right now from the fracking 6 

### industry, but that’s going to go away once those 7 

### wells are built and tapped out. It’s just – all 8 

### that infrastructure is going to be useless, and 9 

### all those people who are currently, you know, 10 

### living in Weld County and experiencing the 11 

### benefit of those jobs, they’re going to be 12 

### jobless. 13

### I think that it’s important to state that 14 

### renewable energy has lasting infrastructure that 15 

### will need to be maintained and taken care of, so 16 

### permanent jobs are an advantage there over the 17 

### natural gas industry. And I just really believe 18 

### that renewable energy is the far favorable 19 

### alternative to the fracking industry, which is 20 

### currently what seems to be the direction that at 21 

### least Weld County wants to take. So I think with 22215

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### the Clean Power Plan we might see some initiative 1 

### from the officials in Weld County and other 2 

### districts of Colorado to switch to more plausible 3 

### and sustainable alternatives. 4 

### That’s really all I had to say. Thank 5 

### you very much for this opportunity again. 6 

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 7 

### Okay. For those of you here and that 8 

### have been here for the last hour, is there 9 

### anybody here who wants to speak now? Otherwise, 10 

### we’re going to probably do these breaks in 15- 11 

### minute increments. 12

### So we’re going to take a break now, 13 

### reconvene at quarter after three. If someone’s 14 

### here, we’ll take their testimony and just kind of 15 

### do this piecemeal thing as we need to. Thank 16



### you. 17

### (Whereupon, at 2:57 p.m., a brief recess 18 

### was taken, to reconvene at 3:17 p.m.) 19

### MS. VIDETICH: Okay. So we are going to 20 

### resume the public hearing on the proposed federal 21 

### plan and model rules for the Clean Power Plan. 22216

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### We have three speakers set to speak. 1 

### First would be Bryce Carter, and Patti Briones. 2 

### Bryce and Patti -– 3 

### Is Patti here? 4 

### Hi, Patti. 5 

### Please come up front. If you two would 6 

### please say your name, spell your name. You’ll 7 

### both have five minutes to testify. 8 

### And then Karen Kalavity will be the next 9 

### up after these two speakers. 10

### Thank you. 11

### MR. SWANSON: Also please use the 12 

### microphone. 13


### MS. VIDETICH: The one that’s – 14

### There we go. Okay. 15

### MR. CARTER: Good afternoon. My name is 16 

### Bryce Carter, B-R-Y-C-E, last name C-A-R-T-E-R. 17

### Good afternoon on this lovely weather18 

### filled day. Again, my name is Bryce Carter, and 19 

### I live here in Denver, Colorado. Thank you for 20 

### this opportunity to provide testimony. I am a 21 

### staff member of the Sierra Club, and also a 22217

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### concerned citizen speaking out in support of the 1 

### EPA’s Clean Power Plan and proposed federal 2 

### implementation plan. 3 

### The Clean Power Plan is historic and will 4 

### be praised many generations down the line for its 5 

### safeguards to protect our air, water, climate, 6 

### and the health of our communities. The 7 

### flexibility allows for states to implement the 8 

### plan, ensures ways of accounting for local needs 9 

### while meeting the standards. The successful 10 

### implementation of the plan will lead to 11 

### significant climate and public health benefits, 12 

### preventing about 250,000 asthma attacks, and 13 

### 6,600 premature deaths annually. 14

### Here in Colorado we’ve seen dramatic 15 

### drought, fires, flooding in just the past several 16 

### years alone, amounting to loss of lives and many 17 

### billions of dollars in property damage and 18 

### emergency response costs. I have spoken to some 19 

### of those emergency response managers in impacted 20 

### communities and learned that the disproportionate 21 

### impacts on communities of color and the low- 22218

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### income communities are enduring. As one example, 1 

### a trailer park with a low-income Latino 2 

### population was destroyed in the 2013 floods, and 3 

### officials were unable to track the majority of 4 

### the population of mostly immigrants thereafter to 5 

### assess what support they would need. In Lyons 6 

### low-income housing was destroyed, and they’ve had 7 

### difficulty reallocating affordable housing units 8 

### outside of the floodplain. A vote failed in the 9 

### aftermath to support such housing, in part 10 

### because those who lost their homes were no longer 11 

### able to register to vote and claim residency 12 

### after they lost their homes. Elsewhere, two 13 

### fires in Colorado Springs alone, the Waldo Canyon 14 

### and the Black Forest in 2012 and 2013 15 

### respectively, burned down a collective 832 homes 16 

### and killed four people. 17

### We are on the front lines of climate 18 

### destruction in the Centennial State, seeing the 19 

### extremes of which occur at an increasing pace, 20 

### impacting all of our communities. The issue of 21 

### climate change and dealing with carbon pollution 22219

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### is gravely serious, and we must collectively work 1 

### on solving these issues. The Clean Power Plan 2 

### takes us in the right direction to do just that. 3 

### For states unable or unwilling to 4 

### implement this plan, it is necessary to enforce a 5 

### federal implementation plan that is as strong as 6 

### any state-approved plan. To do so, the EPA must 7 

### do a few things. 8 

### One, we should ensure the carbon 9 

### pollution standards in the model federal plan 10 

### achieve the pollution reductions promised by the 11 

### final Clean Power Plan, if not provide further 12 

### reductions. 13

### Two, we should ensure that states address 14 

### potential carbon pollution from new power plants 15 

### to achieve overall electric sector reductions in 16 

### carbon pollution. 17

### Three, protect low-income consumers by 18 

### maximizing utilities’ incentives to invest in 19 

### energy efficiency, which lowers household energy 20 

### bills. 21

### Four, ensure that the model federal plan 22220

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### protects and benefits minority, low-income, and 1 

### indigenous communities that have long-borne the 2 

### brunt of fossil fuel pollution, and may be most 3 

### likely to experience impacts of climate change as 4


### we’ve seen here. 5 

### And number five, resist giveaways of 6 

### allowances to the most polluting sources. 7 

### The Clean Power Plan will clean up our 8 

### air and address climate disruption, modernize how 9 

### we power our country and economy, and spur 10 

### diverse innovation, and create thousands of jobs 11 

### with billions in investment. I’ve seen firsthand 12 

### the benefits of this transition from the smart 13 

### grid technologies present in Fort Collins Zero 14 

### Energy District to ever-increasing gains in wind 15 

### power, which recently fully powered half the 16 

### state, to rooftop solar, which keeps money within 17 

### the local community. 18

### I’m personally excited for the solutions 19 

### to come, but we must have strong action plans 20 

### implemented across this country to charge 21


### forward. Please ensure the federal 22221

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### implementation plan fully supports the momentum 1 

### and leadership of the Clean Power Plan. 2 

### Thank you. 3 

### MS. VIDETICH: Mr. Carter, can I ask you 4 

### a question -- 5


### MR. CARTER: Yes. 6


### MS. VIDETICH: -- before we move on? 7 

### Thank you. You talked about the federal 8 

### plan protecting low-income communities. Do you 9 

### feel like it goes far enough now, or would you or 10 

### the Sierra Club be providing us more comments on 11 

### what more we could do that’s not in the plan? 12

### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: At the Sierra Club 13 

### we’re working with lawyers to submit very long, 14 

### in-depth comments. 15

### MS. VIDETICH: Okay. 16

### MR. CARTER: Yes. So there will be – 17

### MS. VIDETICH: so more comments. Okay. 18 

### Thank you. If you can give us any particular 19 

### ideas about what that might be, that would be 20 

### helpful. 21

### MR. CARTER: Absolutely. 22222

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### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 1 

### Thank you for waiting. 2 

### MS. BRIONES: Bryce and I are not 3 

### actually together, but I certainly support 4 

### everything he said. He’s a very hard act to 5 

### follow, because I belong to the Sierra Club and I 6 

### belong to 350.org, but I do not know all the 7 

### particulars that he just very eloquently 8 

### expressed. 9 

### I am here as a retired teacher, a mother, 10 

### and a grandmother to speak for my family and my 11 

### students and children that I know. 12

### MS. VIDETICH: Excuse me. Could you 13 

### please remind us your name, and spell your name 14 

### for the court reporter? 15

### MS. BRIONES: I’m sorry. Yes. 16

### MS. VIDETICH: No, no. Thank you. 17

### MS. BRIONES: Patti, P-A-T-T-I Briones, 18


### B-R-I-O-N-E-S. 19

### A couple of things that Bryce mentioned 20 

### stood out for me. One is the floods in Lyons. I 21 

### had just come to Colorado from California when 22223

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### that rainstorm hit and the floods hit. I 1 

### remember people that I know that used to come 2 

### down to Denver for activities suddenly weren’t 3 

### coming anymore, and they just –- the roads were 4 

### impassable. It was a terrible thing for the 5 

### people of Lyons and other areas. 6 

### Also he mentioned indigenous people, and 7 

### I’m very concerned. I think it is a tremendous 8 

### injustice that Native Americans who knew so well 9 

### how to take care of the Earth have had their 10 

### land -– and they didn’t consider it their land. 11 

### They didn’t have the idea of land ownership -- 12 

### but the land that they used, so land taken away 13 

### from them and for them to be restricted to 14 

### certain areas called reservations. I’ve been in 15 

### contact recently with some Native American people 16 

### from the Four Winds organization in Denver, and 17 

### they also are quite concerned, of course, about 18 

### what is happening to our environment. 19

### And we are speaking, I understand, to the 20 

### Environmental Protection Agency, so I know that 21 

### you take that very seriously, your obligation to 22224

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### protect the environment. We can’t debate anymore 1 

### about the science. I think the science is, I 2 

### think, like 99 percent on the side of yes, there 3 

### is global warming, and, yes, people have a whole 4 

### lot to do with it. 5 

### I expect, and I greatly encourage my 6 

### government as represented by the Environmental 7 

### Protection Agency to do all that they can to 8 

### support a transition from fossil fuels to 9 

### renewable energy sources. I think that is the 10 

### only thing that is going to save us from 11 

### fantastically horrible environmental disasters. 12 

### And if we can, by preventing those kinds of 13 

### disasters, we will also prevent the expense of 14 

### cleaning them up. 15

### Katrina, Sandy, the unbelievable expense 16 

### monetarily, that’s secondary. It’s really the 17 

### people that have suffered in those scariest –- 18 

### from the destruction from those storms. We’re 19 

### going to have more and more extreme weather 20 

### events if we don’t do something about global 21 

### warming. 22225

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### I think it has to do with transitioning 1 

### from fossil fuels to renewable energy sources. 2 

### And that’s what I expect my government to do. 3 

### And you, as representatives of the government and 4 

### of me, my representatives, that’s what I want you 5


### to do. 6 

### Thank you very much. 7 

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you. 8 

### Karen Kalavity? 9 

### MS. KALAVITY: Hello. My name is Karen 10 

### Kalavity. 11

### MS. VIDETICH: Please use the microphone. 12 

### Spell and say your last name. Thank you. 13

### MS. KALAVITY: My name is Karen Kalavity, 14 

### K-A-R-E-N. Kalavity is K-A-L-A-V-I-T-Y. 15

### I have spoken here before about coal and 16 

### carbon pollution. I am also a member of the 17 

### Sierra Club, and actually thought this was 18 

### directed more towards wildlife and the protection 19 

### of wildlife, and so that’s how I’ve written up my 20 

### little narrative here. I’m calling it Coal and 21 

### Wildlife. 22226

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### Coal extraction and burning adversely 1 

### affects wildlife just as it adversely affects 2 

### humans. As an example, just recently I, with two 3 

### other friends, made a trip to Las Vegas, which no 4 

### one’s going to consider that an environmental 5 

### trip, but still we covered a lot of ground there. 6 

### We took a side trip and toured the Hoover Dam and 7 

### saw the large turbines and other structures that 8 

### bring light and power to the Strip. Las Vegas is 9 

### mostly powered by hydroelectric, which has its 10 

### own shortcomings, and, of course, wildlife has 11 

### been affected along that stretch of the Colorado 12 

### River, as well as many tributaries that have been 13 

### drained throughout the area to bring Lake Mead to 14 

### its current level, which, by the way, is the 15 

### lowest level it has ever been since the 16 

### construction of the dam. This relates to coal 17 

### because burning coal requires quite a bit of 18 

### water as well. It’s not just the extraction of 19 

### coal. The process itself uses a lot of water, 20 

### and we’re in a situation where we cannot afford 21 

### to be using water in that way, as well as even in 22227

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### the so-called renewable way of hydroelectric is 1 

### getting to be a little questionable. 2 

### In any event, on the way home from Vegas, 3 

### we went through Zion National Park, Bryce Canyon, 4 

### and some other stretches of beautiful scenery in 5 

### Utah. We saw deer, squirrels, ravens and other 6 

### wildlife flourishing in the national parks. This 7 

### is in stark contrast to some of the other areas. 8 

### Of course animals in national parks know 9 

### they will not be shot and killed. It is 10 

### different outside the parks, and the wildlife 11 

### behaves differently in the parks as compared to 12 

### outside the parks. They actually will come 13 

### within a few feet of people in areas they know 14 

### they will not be killed. 15

### Along the way home to Denver, we came 16 

### upon the Grand Staircase Escalante National 17 

### Monument. My friend remarked that this area had 18 

### been spared from coal mining in the process of 19 

### being designated a national monument. Thank God. 20 

### It was beautiful. The thought of a large coal 21 

### mine at this location was really depressing. I 22228

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### was grateful to know that this beautiful area 1 

### could not be mined because of its designation as 2 

### a national monument. 3 

### This all comes back to wildlife, coal, 4 

### and us. Not only does coal burning foul the air, 5 

### which affects all of us, but it also entails the 6 

### disturbance and destruction of large natural and 7 

### pristine areas. 8 

### We must start using our renewable –- we 9 

### must focus our attention on resources that are 10 

### renewable such as wind, and especially rooftop 11


### solar. 12

### Again, when you go to Las Vegas and you 13 

### see all the surface area of those buildings, and 14 

### instead of using energy from hydroelectric, they 15 

### could be generating solar energy with all that 16 

### surface area. Much of our existing and proposed 17 

### architecture has enough vertical and horizontal 18 

### surface area to support large areas of solar 19 

### collection exactly where we need it, in the urban 20 

### areas. We need to start creating elegant, 21 

### sophisticated, and energy-efficient architecture 22229

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### where we need it. With the new battery storage 1 

### available, this is entirely doable. 2 

### Please focus on renewables, and keep 3 

### energy production away from our wildlife and 4


### natural areas. 5 

### MS. VIDETICH: So my dear friends in the 6 

### audience, we’ve come to another place where we 7 

### have, I don’t think, anyone else that wants to 8 

### talk at this moment. Am I correct? 9 

### So we will take another 15-minute break, 10 

### and see if anyone shows up within that 15 11 

### minutes. 12

### (Whereupon, at 3:32 p.m., a brief recess 13 

### was taken, to reconvene at 3:48 p.m.) 14

### MS. VIDETICH: Okay. So we’re going to 15 

### reconvene the public hearing on the proposed 16 

### federal plan and model rules for the Clean Power 17 

### Plan for existing power plants. 18

### We have one speaker. Becky English is 19 

### slated to speak. At this point in time, I don’t 20 

### think we have anyone else ready to speak. So 21 

### after Ms. English has completed her testimony, 22230

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### we’ll take another break. That will get us to 1 

### about 4:05, and we’ll convene again at 4:05. 2 

### Ms. English, thanks for being here. If 3 

### you would, please state your name, spell your 4 

### name for the court reporter, and you’ll have five 5 

### minutes to testify. 6 

### MS. ENGLISH: All right. Are you sure I 7 

### can’t take 35 minutes? 8 

### MS. VIDETICH: No. We’re keeping 9 

### everybody to five, even though we have some extra 10 

### time, but in order to be fair for everyone. 11 

### Thank you. 12

### MS. ENGLISH: Good afternoon, and thank 13 

### you EPA representatives for holding a hearing 14 

### here in Denver. My name is Becky English, and I 15 

### live here in Denver, Colorado. Thank you for 16 

### this opportunity to offer comments. I’m 17 

### currently the Chair of the Executive Committee 18 

### for Sierra Club’s Rocky Mountain Chapter, 19 

### covering the State of Colorado. 20

### Sierra Club has more than 60,000 members 21 

### and supporters in Colorado, and we’re just very 22231

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### pleased that you’ve issued the Clean Power Plan 1 

### and its outlines, and we’re delighted that you 2 

### chose Denver as the site of this hearing. 3 

### Here are a few thoughts on the 4 

### implementation of the Clean Power Plan. We’re 5 

### very happy the EPA has issued the plan as a 6 

### framework within which each state has 7 

### considerable flexibility to achieve the 8 

### standards. I am a clean energy issues specialist 9 

### for our chapter, and I work to help people 10 

### understand how critically important it is that we 11 

### make the necessary transition out of fossil fuels 12 

### to clean, renewable energy, energy efficiency, 13 

### and demand response with all haste. 14

### In my observation of human nature over 15 

### the years, it’s very clear to me that people are 16 

### able to execute changes in business as usual much 17 

### more readily when they have some say in designing 18 

### a new program, so I think this framework approach 19 

### is just great. So thank you for developing the 20 

### Clean Power Plan with that flexibility. 21

### Here in Colorado our utilities needed 22232

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### this new framework in order to change some 1 

### extremely dysfunctional patterns of the past. 2 

### That dysfunctionality has been the prevalent 3 

### condition with our investor-owned utilities, our 4 

### power market wholesalers, most of our municipal 5 

### utilities, and most of our electric co-ops. 6 

### Little by little through grassroots and 7 

### rate-payer activism, we’ve made some incremental 8 

### progress here in Colorado into decarbonizing the 9 

### electric sector, but it has not been easy, and we 10 

### still have a lot of room for more success. Let 11 

### me put it that way. 12

### A few years back I was part of an effort 13 

### to get a bill through the Colorado legislature to 14 

### study the economic benefits of a feed-in tariff. 15 

### The utilities, rather than embrace the potential 16 

### economic and carbon-reduction benefits of a feed17 

### in tariff, dispatched the bill with a 18 

### particularly heavy-handed lobbying effort. So 19 

### I’m very pleased to see that your technical 20 

### guidance includes encouragement of local 21 

### distributed generation of clean renewable energy. 22233

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### I think you’re probably well-aware that 1 

### Colorado voters enacted the nation’s first ballot 2 

### initiative introducing a state renewable energy 3 

### standard back in 2004. And under the leadership 4 

### of Governor Bill Ritter, we were able to pass 57 5 

### clean energy bills into statute in Colorado in 6 

### just four years. I point this out in order to 7 

### encourage you to add the input of citizens in 8 

### state compliance plans if your guidance doesn’t 9 

### already do so. I’ve only been able to peruse the 10 

### guidance superficially. As you know, very often 11 

### people understand things before their leaders do. 12

### I’m here today to make several specific 13 

### requests. First, I’d like you to issue a federal 14 

### implantation plan that swiftly and confidently –- 15 

### issue a federal implementation plan to those 16 

### states if a state refuses to comply or cannot 17 

### comply. Don’t be shy. Don’t be slow. Just go 18 

### for it. 19

### Secondly, I want you to stick with the 20 

### standards enumerated in the model federal plan, 21 

### and assure that they, indeed, achieve the 22234

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### reductions forecast in the Clean Power Plan. In 1 

### other words, if there’s any –- go for the 2 

### results, as opposed to the method for getting 3


### there. 4 

### Third, please make sure that emissions 5 

### from all new power plants achieve overall 6 

### electric sector reductions in carbon pollution 7 

### that you’ve enumerated. I’m sure that goes 8 

### without saying, because of course this is about 9 

### existing plants, but you would be surprised. 10 

### Right here in Colorado the Comanche Three Power 11 

### Plant, in spite of all of its warts, that plant 12 

### was approved just not that long ago. We really 13 

### need to make sure that any new plants achieve the 14


### standards. 15

### Fourth, we need to protect low-income 16 

### customers from the worst abuses of our utilities. 17 

### Some of the highest utility rates in the West are 18 

### forced on some of the people least able to pay 19 

### them. In addition, these utilities, which are 20 

### big fans of coal-fired power production by the 21 

### way, charge sky-high reconnection rates after 22235

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### they’ve heartlessly cut off these customers. 1 

### Instead these utilities ought to be investing in 2 

### energy efficiency and demand response programs 3 

### that benefit their customers by lowering their 4 

### bills. I hope your draft model federal plan will 5 

### incentivize such programming. 6 

### Fifth, the draft model federal plan 7 

### should also protect and benefit minority, low8 

### income, and indigenous communities that have had 9 

### to breathe the foul fossil fuel air of the 10 

### industrial age too long. These same communities 11 

### are often the most likely communities to 12 

### experience the impacts of climate change. 13

### Sixth, finally, for heaven’s sake, don’t 14 

### let the model federal plan to continue giveaway 15 

### allowances to fossil fuel interests and their 16 

### minions, the utilities. It is time for all such 17 

### giveaways, sweetheart deals, and corrupt clusters 18 

### of contamination creation to cease and desist 19


### forever. 20

### In closing, I want to note that I’m 21 

### ashamed of Colorado’s Attorney General Cynthia 22236

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### Coffman for joining a lawsuit challenging the 1 

### authority of the EPA to issue the Clean Power 2 

### Plan. It mortifies me that our state –- 3 

### MS. VIDETICH: Ms. English, if you could, 4 

### please tie up. 5 

### MS. ENGLISH: -- on a clean energy 6 

### economy has joined that lawsuit. And I see no 7 

### reason why any state shouldn’t be able to meet 8 

### your guidelines. 9 

### Thank you very much. 10

### MS. VIDETICH: Thank you very much. 11

### MR. SWANSON: If you could provide that 12 

### to our court reporter, she’d really appreciate 13 

### it. 14

### MS. VIDETICH: Yes. Would you mind? 15

### Thank you. 16

### So it is 3:55. I do not have any other 17 

### speakers lined up at the moment, so we will take 18 

### a break until 10 minutes after four. 19

### Thank you. 20

### (Whereupon, at 3:55 p.m., a brief recess 21 

### was taken, to reconvene at 4:12 p.m.) 22237

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### MS. VIDETICH: So for those of you that 1 

### are in the audience, we are on a break from the 2 

### public hearing for the proposed federal plan and 3 

### model rules for the clean power plan for existing 4 

### power plants. We’re going to continue to stay in 5 

### a break. There’s no one else that’s shown up 6 

### since our last break. We’re going to take a half 7 

### an hour break, and then, as most of you might 8 

### know, we’re going to actually break then at 5:00 9 

### and reconvene at six. So hopefully we’ll have 10 

### one or two more folks come in between now and 11 

### then. And, if not, we’ll make a decision at 12 

### quarter to five. 13

### So thank you all for your patience, and 14 

### we’ll get back to you in a half an hour. 15

### (Whereupon, at 4:12 p.m., a brief recess 16 

### was taken, to reconvene at 4:50 p.m.) 17

### MS. VIDETICH: So it’s 4:50. We are 18 

### reopening the public hearing on the proposed 19 

### federal plan and model rules for the Clean Power 20 

### Plan for existing power sources. We have one 21 

### speaker at this point. It’s Mr. Jerry Mullins. 22238

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### Mr. Mullins, if you would, please state 1 

### and spell your name for the court reporter, and 2 

### then you have five minutes to give your 3 

### testimony. 4 

### Thank you. 5 

### MR. MULLINS: My name is Jerry Mullins. 6 

### The spelling on that is J-E-R-R-Y M-U-L-L-I-N-S. 7 

### I just wanted to offer some thoughts and comments 8 

### with concern to the Clean Power Plan, as well as 9 

### the overall FIP procedure. I just want to make 10 

### clear the real technical and legal concerns that 11 

### so many people have with the Clean Power Plan is 12 

### development, and the reality of empowering EPA to 13 

### have jurisdiction over states and how those 14 

### states are able to generate and push electricity 15 

### in an affordable way out to its residents. 16

### I think the Clean Power Plan really 17 

### doesn’t take into account a lot of the serious 18 

### technical challenges that the states already go 19 

### through in their efforts to provide affordable 20 

### electricity. And I think that while we all are 21 

### for a greater development of renewable energy and 22239

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### renewable fuels, the reality of the need for 1 

### baseload generation is really the key to opening 2 

### up those renewable doors. And I think that 3 

### unless that is more seriously addressed and 4 

### compensations are made for that need, the Clean 5 

### Power Plan, if implemented as one interprets it 6 

### today, I think will pose real economic and, 7 

### potentially, reliability harms across the 8 

### country. 9 

### You know, this administration has really 10 

### shown a very callous rulemaking attitude towards 11 

### the states. And I think when you take into 12 

### account all that the states have been responsible 13 

### for in the past and all the successes they 14 

### generate, especially when you look at certain 15 

### states like Colorado and their ability to develop 16 

### renewable fuels and renewable electricity 17 

### sources, this just seems to be kind of an 18 

### overreaching rule that’s going to cause a lot of 19 

### problems for the fixed-income residents of states 20 

### who are going to have to suffer through increased 21 

### energy prices. 22240

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### I also wanted to comment on the FIP 1 

### itself, and the timing of it, and how difficult 2 

### it’ll be for states as they’re developing their 3 

### state plans. If the model FIP isn’t really 4 

### developed until the summer of 2016, that doesn’t 5 

### give states very much time to compare what the 6 

### model FIP is versus what the SIPs they’re trying 7 

### to develop are going to be. And I think that 8 

### timing is going to be a real problem for the 9 

### regulators as they move forward with the most 10 

### responsible development of a state implementation 11 

### plan that they develop. 12

### Just, once again, the economic harm and 13 

### damage and potential -- while I know the 14 

### administrator has gone out of her way to say that 15 

### the EPA is going to take into account economic 16 

### ramifications in the rule development, I think it 17 

### is irresponsible and frightening what that could 18 

### mean not only for, you know, the people who are 19 

### already having challenges, meaning electricity 20 

### pricing, but the job creators who come to 21 

### different states because of the affordability of 22241

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### electricity. When that benefit starts to be 1 

### challenged because of, you know, bureaucracy and 2 

### policy, that economic damage will be real, and 3 

### it’ll result in loss of jobs and more pain for 4


### the states. 5 

### Thank you. 6 

### MR. SWANSON: Thank you, sir. 7 

### MS. VIDEVICH: Thank you. 8 

### So rather than closing this public 9 

### hearing, we’re just going to go into a soft mode 10 

### of being quiet. If anyone comes in, we’ll go 11 

### ahead and let them testify. Otherwise, the 12 

### hearing will close for this afternoon’s session 13


### at 5:00. 14

### (Pause.) 15

### So being that we have no more speakers 16 

### for this part of the afternoon session in the 17 

### public hearing for the Clean Power Plan, we’re 18 

### going to close this particular part of the 19 

### hearing. We will reconvene at 6:00. 20

### So be careful out there. It’s still just 21 

### wet. But thank you for coming this afternoon. 22242

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### (Whereupon, at 4:53 p.m., a dinner recess 1 

### was taken, to reconvene at 6:08 p.m.) 2

3

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18

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20

21

22243

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### EVENING SESSION 1 

### 6:08 p.m. 2 

### MS. NOONAN: Good evening. My name is 3 

### Jenny Noonan, and I am the chair of today’s 4 

### public hearing. Thank you for coming today. 5 

### Joining me on the panel are Cate Hight and Nick 6


### Swanson. 7 

### I’m going to read a brief summary of what 8 

### we are here to talk about today, and some 9 

### housekeeping items on how things will proceed 10 

### this evening. 11 

### Fossil fuel-fired power plants are 12 

### the largest source of US carbon dioxide 13 

### emissions, or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 14 

### percent of US total greenhouse gas emissions. 15 

### Reducing carbon pollution from power plants is an 16 

### essential step in lessening the impacts of 17 

### climate change, and providing a more certain 18 

### future for our environment, our health, and 19 

### future generations. 20 

### We are here this evening to listen to 21 

### your comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan 22244

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### and model rules to implement the Clean Power Plan 1 

### for existing power plants. 2 

### On October 23, 2015 the US Environmental 3 

### Protection Agency published in the Federal 4 

### Register its proposed federal plan to implement 5 

### emission guidelines for power plants under 6 

### section 111(d) of the Clean Air Act. EPA's 7 

### 111(d) rule, known as the Clean Power Plan, takes 8 

### effect on December 22, 2015, and applies to 9 

### affected power plants that began construction on 10 

### or before January 8, 2014. 11 

### The federal plan and model trading rules 12 

### demonstrate a readily-available path forward for 13 

### the Clean Power Plan implementation and present 14 

### flexible, affordable implementation options for 15


### states. 16 

### The model rules provide a cost-effective 17 

### pathway to adopt a trading system supported by 18 

### the EPA, and make it easier for states and power 19 

### plants to use emission trading. It does the 20 

### heavy lifting for states who may choose to use a 21 

### model rule as their state plan. The EPA would 22245

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### implement the federal plan in any state that does 1 

### not submit an approvable plan. 2 

### This proposal includes four discrete 3 

### proposed actions: One, a rate-based federal plan 4 

### for each state with an affected electric 5 

### generating unit, or EGU; two, a mass-based 6 

### federal plan for each state with an affected EGU; 7 

### three, a rate-based model trading rule for 8 

### potential use by any state; and, four, a mass9 

### based model trading rule for potential use by any 10


### state. 11 

### The proposed federal plans will achieve 12 

### the same level of emission performance as 13 

### required of state plans under the Clean Power 14 

### Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 15 

### those states with affected EGUs that the EPA 16 

### determines have failed to submit an approvable 17 

### l11(d) state plan by the relevant deadlines set 18 

### in the emission guidelines. 19 

### In those states where a federal plan may 20 

### be required, a final federal plan will implement 21 

### the same emission guidelines for affected power 22246

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### plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 1 

### would not require additional control 2 

### requirements, or impose additional costs. 3 

### Even where a federal plan is put in place 4 

### for a particular state, that state will still be 5 

### able to submit a plan, which, if approved, will 6 

### allow the state and its sources to exit the 7 

### federal plan. 8 

### States may take delegation of 9 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 10 

### order to become the primary implementers, or 11 

### submit partial state plans in order to take over 12 

### the implementation of a portion of the federal 13 

### plan. 14 

### States operating under a federal plan may 15 

### adopt complementary measures outside of that plan 16 

### to facilitate compliance and lower costs to the 17 

### benefit of power generators and consumers. 18 

### The proposal also includes a model rule 19 

### for those states that are developing their own 20 

### state plans. 21 

### EPA intends to finalize both the rate- 22247

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### based and mass-based model trading rules in the 1 

### summer 2016. A state program that adheres to the 2 

### model trading rule provisions specified in this 3 

### rulemaking, when final, would be presumptively 4 

### approvable. 5 

### There are stand-alone portions of the 6 

### model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 7 

### measurement, and verification procedures for 8 

### emission rate credits, ERCs, that would be 9 

### approvable even if a state adopted an approach 10 

### that differs in other respects from the model 11


### rule. 12 

### In addition, the proposal contains a 13 

### finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 14 

### implement a section 111(d) federal plan for the 15 

### affected electric generating units located in 16 

### Indian country. The C02 emission performance 17 

### rates for these facilities were finalized in the 18


### Clean Power Plan. I 19 

### Information on how the EPA will reach out 20 

### to communities throughout the comment period; and 21 

### an overview of the actions that EPA is taking to 22248

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### ensure that vulnerable communities are not being 1 

### disproportionately impacted by this rulemaking is 2 

### also included in this proposal. 3 

### If you would like more details on the 4 

### proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 5 

### the registration desk and right out here in the 6 

### hallway. 7 

### Before we get started, I'd like to go 8 

### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 9 

### that will help make this evening’s hearing run 10 

### smoothly. First, please make sure you have 11 

### checked in at the registration desk, even if 12 

### you’re not planning to speak today. And if you 13 

### signed up to speak online or by phone, but 14 

### haven't told us that you're here, please step out 15 

### to the registration desk and let the EPA staff 16 

### know that you’ve arrived. 17 

### I will call the speakers up in pairs. 18 

### When your name is called, please come to the 19 

### speakers' table at the front of the room. 20 

### When I call on you to speak, please state your 21 

### name, and spell it for the court reporter. Your 22249

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### comments will be transcribed and included in the 1 

### record of comments on the proposed rule. 2 

### Each speaker will have five minutes to 3 

### give comments. We have a timer light to help you 4 

### know how much time you have left. When the light 5 

### turns from green to yellow, that means you have 6 

### one minute remaining. When it turns to red, 7 

### that's a signal that you are at five minutes and 8 

### it’s time to stop. When you are finished 9 

### speaking, please remain at the table until the 10 

### person next to you has completed his or her 11 

### testimony. 12 

### We are here to listen to you today. 13 

### However, a panel member may ask a question to 14 

### clarify your comments. After that process goes 15 

### through, then I will then call up the next pair 16 

### of speakers. 17 

### If you have brought a copy of your 18 

### written, please give that to either us of the 19 

### court reporter before you leave today. We will 20 

### put any written comments submitted today into the 21 

### official docket for the proposed rule. 22250

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### We also have comment cards available at 1 

### the registration desk, if you would like to 2 

### submit additional written comments today. If you 3 

### want to comment in writing later, stop by the 4 

### materials table at the registration desk and pick 5 

### up a copy of the instructions for submitting 6 

### written comments. Comments must be received by 7 

### January 21, 2016. 8 

### Let me assure you that EPA gives just as 9 

### much consideration to comments we received in 10 

### writing as we do at public hearings like this 11 

### one. So if you have more comments that you would 12 

### like to provide to the EPA, submit them by the 13 

### comment period deadline. Your comments will be 14 

### reviewed. 15 

### If you have any questions throughout the 16 

### evening, please see the staff at the registration 17 

### desk, and someone will assist you. 18 

### Thank you again for taking the time to 19 

### come today to give testimony or observe these 20 

### proceedings. Let's get started. 21

### The first two we have are Michael 22251

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### Sandoval and Josie Wolf. And I don’t think your 1 

### microphones are working either, so we’ll just 2 

### listen very attentively. 3 

### MS. WOLF: Hi. My name is Josie Wolf, 4


### J-O-S-I-E W-O-L-F. 5 

### THE REPORTER: Can you speak up just a 6 

### little bit? 7


### JOSIE WOLF: J-O-S-I-E W-O-L-F. 8 

### MS. KARKI: Hi. My name is Priyanka 9 

### Karki, P-R-I-Y-A-N-K-A, then Karki, K-A-R-K-I. 10

### MS. WOLF: Power plants are one of the 11 

### largest sources of carbon pollution in America, 12 

### with severe impacts on overall health. 131 13 

### million Americans, over 40 percent of the 14 

### population, live in areas with poor air quality. 15 

### The adverse effects of air pollution, including 16 

### ozone and particulate matter, are only amplified 17 

### in children. 30 percent of childhood asthma is 18 

### due to environmental factors, a number that has 19 

### more than doubled in the past three decades due 20 

### to the seven percent increase of CO2 emissions in 21 

### that time period. 22252

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### At my school athletes toting inhalers is 1 

### commonplace, even if they play sports with low 2 

### cardiovascular requirements. Even in Boulder 3 

### County, where the air is praised for its mountain 4 

### freshness, kids are experiencing severe 5 

### respiratory disorders. Increased carbon 6 

### pollution continues to warm our climate, causing 7 

### longer allergy season, which, in turn, 8 

### exacerbates existing asthma symptoms and creates 9 

### more serious illness in a larger proportion of 10 

### our population. 11

### Our warming climate has also increased 12 

### the presence of vector-borne illnesses, 13 

### intensifying the risk of Lyme disease in Colorado 14 

### to a level that was not previously prevalent. If 15 

### my peers and I hope to continue playing sports, 16 

### hiking, and being outside, we need clean power 17

### We need to lessen the disconnect between 18 

### future generations and the regulators, who are 19 

### weighing apparent short-term economic interest at 20 

### the detriment of public health and the 21 

### environment. 22253

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### The Clean Power Plan has the potential to 1 

### greatly reduce pollution from power plants, which 2 

### will, in turn, rectify poor health, and protect 3 

### the environment. Although the implementation of 4 

### the plan may be costly, the cost savings due to a 5 

### reduction in air pollutants will reduce 6 

### healthcare costs by 14 to 34 billion. The shift 7 

### to clean power, including renewable energy, and 8 

### increased efficiency must be accelerated to 9 

### improve health and reduce healthcare costs 10 

### associated with air pollution. 11

### The Clean Power Plan must be implemented 12 

### in a manner that makes significant change happen 13 

### as quickly as possible to ensure a better worlds 14 

### for future generations. 15


### MS. KARKI: Several Net Zero members and 16 

### I are here today blowing off homework and the 17 

### newest episode of Game of Thrones to remind you 18 

### all that the impact of this legislation will be 19 

### felt mostly by our generation, and not the 20 

### generation of the decision-makers. We are the 21 

### greatest stakeholders in this debate, yet we have 22254

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### the weakest voices. We urge you to heed our 1 

### pleas and to implement the Clean Power Plan in 2 

### the strongest way possible as a key step in 3 

### ensuring the health of our future, as well as 4 

### future generations. 5 

### As the Clean Power Plan is the first 6 

### national regulation addressing carbon pollution 7 

### from power plants, you all have the chance to 8 

### pave the path regarding clean power. While all 9 

### of us here intend to spend our lives solving the 10 

### environmental problems previous generations have 11 

### left behind, we would highly appreciate not 12 

### inheriting this one as well. 13

### I understand that approving the Clean 14 

### Power Plan is only the first step in a series of 15 

### steps that will need to be taken in order to 16 

### successfully enforce the goal of slowing carbon 17 

### emissions. Nonetheless, with the increasing 18 

### effects of pollution taking its toll on the 19 

### population and the environment, it is imperative 20 

### that the plan be implemented in an aggressive 21



### manner. 22255

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### According to the EPA, its mission is to 1 

### protect human health and the environment. 2 

### However, with increasing rates of asthma and the 3 

### existence of days when even healthy kids are 4 

### encouraged to stay indoors, it could be said that 5 

### the EPA has not yet achieved its mission. 6 

### However, the Clean Power Plan provides an 7 

### opportunity for the EPA to correct these past 8 

### failures, as well as an opportunity for it to 9 

### more vigorously follow its own mission. 10

### So for the health of my generation and 11 

### the generations to follow, I strongly urge you 12 

### all to be our heroes and finalize a federal plan, 13 

### as well as the model rules that will ensure that 14 

### the Clean Power Plan will drive real reductions 15 

### in carbon pollution, play a role in shifting away 16 

### from wasteful sources to cleaner sources, as well 17 

### as to create a greater emphasis on energy 18 

### efficiency. 19

### Thank you. 20


### MS. NOONAN: Mr. Sandoval? 21

### MR. SANDOVAL: Michael Sandoval, 22256

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### M-I-C-H-A-E-L S-A-N-D-O-V-A-L. I’m here on 1 

### behalf of Independence Institute. 2 

### In its December 2014 comments, the 3 

### Colorado Department of Public Health and 4 

### Environment, the Colorado Public Utilities 5 

### Commission, and the Colorado Energy Office all 6 

### maintained that in Colorado the PUC has exclusive 7 

### statutory authority to regulate the IOUs and the 8 

### associated electric resource decisions that, 9 

### depending on the plan elements proposed by 10 

### Colorado, legislation may be needed to clarify or 11 

### direct state agencies on their respective roles 12 

### and authorities. We continue to question the EPA 13 

### and the Colorado Department of Public Health and 14 

### other agencies’ role in establishing and 15 

### clarifying that legislation that might be 16 

### necessary for the Clean Power Plan and any model 17 

### trading program. 18

### The Independence Institute is a free 19 

### market think tank interested in promoting free 20 

### market energy resources. But as nice or well21 

### intentioned as a trading market for energy or 22257

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### eligible resource credits sounds at first glance, 1 

### it becomes evident that government-created 2 

### markets are simply picking energy winners and 3 

### losers, often arbitrarily and often without 4 

### actual considerations of cost or impact, but 5 

### rather to self-serving goals within a given 6 

### policy such as the Clean Power Plan. When most 7 

### transactional costs of trading ERCs rise within 8 

### the model trading plan, who will pay them? 9 

### Inefficiencies won’t be borne at the 10 

### administrative or even generating level, but by 11 

### the ratepayers and taxpayers, important 12 

### stakeholders in this process, not all of whom 13 

### will be prepared for the rising costs of the 14 

### Clean Power Plan itself, much less in terms of 15


### wealth transfers from state to state as the 16 

### trading scheme expands. 17

### So far, as with much else from the 18 

### rollout of the Clean Power Plan, the timeline for 19 

### market creation is heavily compacted. 20 

### Information from CDPHE in September on the 21 

### question of trading was light and very unhelpful. 22258

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### This program will likely prove harder and more 1 

### expensive and more nuanced than any central 2 

### planning or federal trading scheme could possibly 3 

### account for ahead of time. 4 

### These comments, of course, fall into the 5 

### requisite acknowledgement of the ongoing legal, 6 

### technical, and other shortcomings of the overall 7 

### Clean Power Plan. Proposing a FIP and trading 8 

### scheme would appear to be adopting a one-size9 

### fits-all scheme to hasty environmental and 10 

### electric generating and planning at federal and 11 

### state levels, and expansion of EPA control over 12 

### generation, distribution, and energy choice at 13


### the state level. 14

### Impressing the timeline in 2016 will 15 

### leave states scrambling without guidance ahead of 16 

### their initial state plan submissions in 2016. 17 

### Complicated mechanisms like a credit-trading 18 

### scheme, besides being legally or technically 19 

### burdensome, surely deserve a measured approach, 20 

### if they are to be approached at all. 21


### Concerns about the Clean Power Plan or a 22259

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### credit-trading system will continue with regards 1 

### to electric reliability, and electricity prices, 2 

### something the State of Colorado has indicated is 3 

### a foremost consideration, should we be able to 4 

### take the state agencies and political 5 

### establishment at their word. 6 

### Finally, all portions of the Clean Power 7 

### Plan must and should address the regressive 8 

### nature of raising electricity prices on the 9 

### nation’s poor, minority, elderly, and other 10 

### vulnerable communities. 11

### Thank you. 12

### MS. NOONAN: I actually have a clarifying 13 

### question. 14


### MR. SANDOVAR: Yes. 15

### MS. NOONAN: Early on you said there was 16 

### something that was unhelpful guidance. You used 17 

### an acronym, I think. Could you -- 18

### Finally, all portions of the Clean Power 19 

### Plan must and should address the regressive 20 

### nature of raising electricity prices on the 21 

### nation’s poor, minority, elderly, and other 22260

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### vulnerable communities. 1 

### Thank you. 2 

### MS. NOONAN: I actually have a clarifying 3 

### question. 4


### MR. SANDOVAR: Yes. 5 

### MS. NOONAN: Early on you said there was 6 

### something that was unhelpful guidance. You used 7 

### an acronym, I think. Could you –- 8 

### MR. SANDOVAR: The Colorado Department of 9 

### Public Health and Environment. 10

### MS. NOONAN: Great. Thank you. 11


### MR. SANDOVAR: Yes. 12

### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Thank you all. 13

### MR. SANDOVAR: Thank you. 14

### MS. NOONAN: Up next we have Ashley Tseng 15 

### and Abby Bloomfield, please. 16

### Hi. 17


### MS. BLOOMFIELD: Hello. 18

### MS. NOONAN: Project. 19

### MS. BLOOMFIELD: Hello. My name is Abby 20 

### Bloomfield. 21

### MS. TSENG: And I am Ashley. 22261

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### MS. BLOOMFIELD: And we are members of 1 

### the Fairfield High School Net Zero Environmental 2


### Club. 3 

### Climate change is a long-term problem 4 

### with repercussions that threaten almost every 5 

### facet of our lives. A problem of this magnitude 6 

### require permanent and systematic solution. 7 

### Now, maybe it’s the fact that I’m knee8 

### deep in college applications, but I find a strong 9 

### parallel between college and the Clean Power 10 

### Plan. For most of my life, college has been the 11 

### goal, the end point. Everything I’ve done will 12 

### hopefully culminate in a letter that says 13 

### congratulations. Getting into college is an 14 

### incredible accomplishment; and as every high 15 

### school counselor will tell you, it’s kind of 16 

### important as well. Unfortunately, however, life 17 

### itself isn’t solved with an acceptance letter. 18 

### College simply ushers in a new chapter. It’s 19 

### what you do in college and after that shapes 20 

### where you land. 21

### In this way the Clean Power Plan is just 22262

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### like college. Its adoption was a critical and 1 

### necessary first step in getting the nation to 2 

### fight the largest source of climate destabilizing 3 

### pollution. The standards it establishes could 4 

### set us on the trajectory for comprehensive reform 5 

### both here and throughout the world. But just 6 

### like college, this plan is neither a ticket, not 7 

### a set path. This is why we hope regulating 8 

### bodies and the general populous will continue to 9 

### be strong and decisive in addressing climate 10 

### change, because in order to truly mitigate 11 

### climate change in a meaningful and impactful way, 12 

### we need to be systematic in our approach. 13

### MS. TSENG: We’ve already got our foot in 14 

### the door, the hardest part of starting anything. 15 

### However, my parents, teachers, and coaches always 16 

### tell me the same thing, “The start is important, 17 

### but the following through is what makes the real 18 

### impact.” Stopping halfway through is akin to 19 

### never starting in the first place with nothing 20 

### but wasted time and efforts. 21

### As an environmental club and generation 22263

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### of mindful students, we are proud of the Clean 1 

### Power Plan. But more than that, we are hopeful. 2 

### We are hopeful that it marks the eve of a 3 

### revolution. And we are hopeful that it is the 4 

### ground of a permanent infrastructure that 5 

### protects our planet for our generations and all 6 

### generations to come, because climate change is 7 

### not slowing down and the impacts are becoming 8 

### more palpable. 9 

### In my lifetime alone, the average 10 

### temperature of the oceans and land masses has 11 

### risen .8 to one degrees, the Greenland Ice Sheet 12 

### has shrunk by 15 percent, and extreme weather 13 

### events have become more increasingly common. 14 

### Although I feel pretty old and even had a 15 

### quarter-life crisis the other day, apparently 16 16 

### years old is not a lot by most time scales. What 17 

### once took ages to happen has taken little over a 18 

### decade. As humans, we have the capability to 19 

### bring life or suffering, and our very existence 20 

### is proof that life is possible. 21

### MS. BLOOMFIELD: So we ask you to treat 22264

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### the Clean Power Plan as the start or a permanent 1


### reform. 2 

### MS. TSENG: We ask you to be firm in your 3


### enforcement of the current rules. 4 

### MS. BLOOMFIELD: We ask you to be 5 

### ambitious when you develop new, more rigorous 6


### standards. 7 

### MS. TSENG: And we ask you to be creative 8 

### and open in finding new ways to reduce pollution. 9 

### MS. BLOOMFIELD: We ask you to be mindful 10 

### of the future generations who will inherit the 11 

### planet. 12

### Thank you. 13

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 14

### THE REPORTER: Can I get the spellings of 15 

### your first and last name? 16 

### MS. BLOOMFIELD: Oh, absolutely. 17 

### Abigail, A-B-A-G-A-I-L, Bloomfield, 18


### B-L-O-O-M-F-I-E-L-D. 19

### MS. TSENG: Ashley, A-S-H-L-E-Y, Tseng, 20


### T-S-E-N-G. 21

### THE REPORTER: Thank you. 22265

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### MS. BLOOMFIELD: Thank you guys so much 1 

### for your time. 2 

### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Up next we have 3 

### Sierra Cantliffe and Clara Dresselhaus. 4 

### And on deck we have Elyssa Hofgard and 5 

### Nancy Stone. 6 

### Start with spelling your names. 7 

### MS. STONE: Yes. I’m Nancy Stone, 8


### N-A-N-C-Y S-T-O-N-E. 9 

### MS. CANTLIFFE: I’m Sierra Cantliffe, 10


### S-I-E-R-R-A C-A-N-T-L-I-F-F-E. 11

### MS. STONE: When I was younger, some of 12 

### my favorite things to learn about in school were 13


### about nature and the world around us. I can 14 

### remember learning all about polar bears, how they 15 

### lived in the North Pole on floating ice and 16 

### hunted seals. I can remember learning about 17 

### coral reefs, the immense number of aquatic 18 

### species that lived there, the bright colors of 19 

### thousands of variants of coral. I can remember 20 

### that after the four distinct seasons a tree was 21 

### the most basic element of my elementary school 22266

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### drawings. It’s interesting to reflect on how 1 

### commonplace all of these things seemed. But the 2 

### truth is when I was a child I took the 3 

### environment for granted, and now all of these 4 

### things that I learned about are vanishing and 5 

### changing before my eyes. 6 

### The ramifications of climate change have 7 

### already burst my childhood bubble. Polar bears 8 

### are increasingly being threatened by melting 9 

### icecaps. The walls of their habitat are 10 

### collapsing upon them, melting into the sea. As 11 

### the temperature of the oceans steadily rises, the 12 

### colors of nature in our oceans are being drained 13 

### away. Reefs are fading and bleaching, expelling 14 

### their tenants, and turning into colorless ghost 15 

### towns. The environment around us is melting 16 

### away, and fading into a skeleton of its former 17 

### vibrant beauty. 18

### With everything that’s changed since my 19 

### childhood, I am filled with fear that my own 20 

### children won’t even know what a polar bear is, 21 

### won’t know the colorful potential ocean reefs 22267

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### once had, won’t be able to tell the difference 1 

### between the seasons due to hellish weather 2 

### patterns, won’t know the smell of fresh pine due 3 

### to temperature changes that wipe out trees. I am 4 

### only 17, and I’m already worrying about the 5 

### implications upon my children of a future plagued 6 

### with global warming. 7 

### I implore you to consider the future. 8 

### Only then can we instill in the next generation 9 

### the same pure appreciation of the world around 10



### us. 11

### MS. CANTLIFFE: The Clean Power Plan is 12 

### an opportunity for far-reaching reform. It is 13 

### important that we take advantage of this 14 

### important piece of regulation, which is why we 15 

### have carpooled here today on a school night, 16 

### because we think it’s more important to speak to 17 

### you, rather than doing our homework. 18

### We’re in a race against time to address 19 

### climate change. Lives and communities across 20 

### America have been at harm by extreme weather, 21 

### including Boulder County, which experienced 22268

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### damaging floods three years ago, and last year a 1 

### hard freeze in November, killing thousands of 2 

### Boulder’s trees, which couldn’t withstand the 3 

### dramatic temperature change. 4 

### The predicted effects of climate change 5 

### will impact everyone. Climate safeguards cannot 6 

### wait. We urge the EPA to finalize a federal plan 7 

### that puts federal protections in place each time 8 

### that a state declines to protect its citizens 9 

### from the extensive carbon pollution from 10 

### smokestacks. EPA must adopt strong measures to 11 

### make sure power plants generate real reductions, 12 

### and make sure companies cannot cheat. 13

### I have learned that states are supposed 14 

### to submit their own plans to EPA for approval. 15 

### If a state is not on track to submit its final 16 

### plan, EPA should issue its own final plan as soon 17 

### as possible. That plan should include strong 18 

### federal limits on carbon pollution. 19

### On behalf of all of Net Zero, thank you 20 

### for listening to our testimony, and thank you for 21 

### taking action. 22269

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### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 1 

### So Clara and Elyssa? 2 

### MS. HOFGARD: Yes, ma’am. 3 

### MS. DRESSELHAUS: Clara Dresselhaus, 4


### C-L-A-R-A D-R-E-S-S-E-L-H-A-U-S. 5 

### MS. HOFGARD: Elyssa Hofgard, E-L-Y-S-S-A 6


### H-O-F-G-A-R-D. 7 

### We are speaking on behalf of Net Zero 8 

### Environmental Club. 9 

### The Clean Power Plan is a crucial step in 10 

### the right direction for environmental policy. 11 

### Manmade emissions of greenhouse gases, primarily 12 

### carbon dioxide, are changing our climate in 13 

### fundamental ways. This problem is only going to 14 

### get worse if we don’t act aggressively. 15

### The US is one of the leading producers of 16 

### CO2 pollution, with fossil fuel power plants 17 

### making up 31 percent of US total greenhouse gas 18 

### emissions. The Clean Power Plan is vital for 19 

### America to start to do its part to address the 20 

### dire threat of climate change. 21

### Our generation is going to be one where 22270

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### climate change will certainly occur, and one 1 

### where policy change must occur. By 2100 the 2 

### average temperature is projected to increase by 3 

### about three to 12 degrees Fahrenheit. These are 4 

### global averages, so in some places temperature 5 

### changes will be even greater. Greenhouse gases 6 

### stain the atmosphere for a long period of time, 7 

### so it is imperative that we act now to avert 8 

### disaster. 9 

### Our current system of self-regulation is 10 

### not enough. To preserve our future, we must act 11 

### aggressively with no hesitation. The CPP 12 

### provides a partnership between the state and 13 

### federal government in reducing carbon dioxide 14 

### emissions from power plants. Admirably, it is 15 

### the first national plan to address carbon 16 

### pollution from power plants. However, we must 17 

### implement this plan effectively. We must act 18 

### aggressively now with a strong national policy, 19 

### including EPA developing a federal plan that will 20 

### apply in states that do not develop their own 21 

### plans. 22271

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### One of the most common arguments against 1 

### increasing federal regulation is that of the 2 

### economy. However, this is a false statement, as 3 

### addressing climate change will not hurt our 4 

### economy. The CPP is projected to have net 5 

### benefits alone of 26 to $45 billion. But even if 6 

### it did hurt our economy, we cannot put the 7 

### profits of businesses over that of living, 8 

### breathing people. In the long run, by protecting 9 

### our future, increasing environmental regulations 10 

### will save us money. Imagine this: We could burn 11 

### through massive amounts of our fossil fuels, 12 

### increasing greenhouse gas concentrations beyond 13 

### the point where humans can do anything about it, 14 

### and where the costs of addressing these problems 15 

### become exponentially higher. By reducing our 16 

### carbon emissions now, we can save major costs in 17 

### the future. With strict federal regulation, we 18 

### can maintain a habitable and economically-strong 19 

### planet. 20

### MS. DRESSELHAUS: Although the 21 

### announcement of the Clean Power Plan is certainly 22272

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### an accomplishment to be celebrated, the EPA must 1 

### be aggressive in its implementation, including 2 

### imposing a strong federal plan in states that do 3 

### not adopt their own plans. 4 

### The new federal rule will create 5 

### innovation and drive new technology by allowing 6 

### states to submit their own proposals. But at the 7 

### end of the day, businesses and big companies, 8 

### such as power plants, exist for one sole purpose, 9 

### profit. As seen by the ongoing opposition to the 10 

### CPP by those favoring dirty energy, these 11 

### entities will try to circumvent this planet at 12 

### every point possible. We all know what happened 13 

### at Volkswagen. 14

### In addition, if we do not enact a strong 15 

### federal regulation, the risk of criminal activity 16 

### is higher. Recently, under the Clean Air Act, a 17 

### biodiesel fuel company was caught defrauding the 18 

### EPA and selling renewable identification numbers 19 

### to oil companies. If we do not enact strong 20 

### federal regulation, a similar scenario could 21



### occur. 22273

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### By enacting strong federal regulation, we 1 

### can help those who cannot help themselves by 2 

### leading the way on addressing climate change. 3 

### Climate change will have a disproportionate 4 

### effect on poor countries, as well as their 5 

### citizens. A change in global temperature will 6 

### have the most dramatic effect on these developing 7 

### countries. We, as a nation, can lead the way. 8 

### We can make this a world where the voiceless are 9 

### protected, and we have the potential to become a 10 

### nation that changes the world by developing 11 

### affordable, effective, and alternative measures. 12

### As Americans, we often don’t understand 13 

### global issues until they actually affect our 14 

### entire population. However, it is an issue of 15 

### global security. At the moment we are destroying 16 

### our planet without heed to future generations. 17 

### Our generation, as well as the ones that come 18 

### after it will be the ones who deal with the 19 

### repercussions of our changing climate. 20

### So as a representative of all the 21 

### voiceless youth, we ask you to take firm action 22274

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### on behalf of your children, and grandchildren. 1 

### Thank you for your time. 2 

### MS. NOONAN: Okay. Up next we have Chris 3 

### Applegate and Tom Bloomfield. 4 

### MR. BLOOMFIELD: Chris, you’re up. They 5 

### called you first. 6 

### MR. APPLEGATE: All right. Chris 7 

### Applegate, C-H-R-I-S A-P-P-L-E-G-A-T-E. 8 

### I’m Chris Applegate. I’m from Denver, 9 

### Colorado. I want to thank you for letting the 10 

### public have an opportunity to comment on the 11 

### Clean Power Plan federal implementation plan. 12 

### It’s been an historic year for the EPA and the 13 

### Obama Administration implementing rules and 14 

### guidelines to place safeguards to protect our 15 

### air, our water, our climate, and the health of 16 

### our communities. 17

### The largest source of greenhouse gases 18 

### come from fossil fuel-fired power plants, and 19 

### represents about 40 percent of the total carbon 20 

### emissions here in the United States. The federal 21 

### implementation plan must protect and benefit 22275

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### communities of color, low-income individuals, and 1 

### indigenous communities that experience the 2 

### impacts of fossil fuel pollution and impacts of 3 

### climate change the most; two, ensure the carbon 4 

### pollution standards achieve the pollution 5 

### reductions as promised; three, maximize 6 

### utilities’ incentives to invest in energy 7 

### efficiencies to help protect low-income consumers 8 

### by lowering household energy bills; four, ensure 9 

### that no giveaways or allowances to fossil fuel 10


### sources are allowed. 11

### While many states like Colorado plan on 12 

### developing our own Clean Power Plan, other states 13 

### may not comply with this act. Climate change and 14 

### carbon pollution know no borders, and that is why 15 

### it will be critical that the EPA promptly issue a 16 

### federal implementation plan if a state refuses 17 

### to, or cannot comply with the Clean Power Plan. 18

### The Clean Power Plan will address climate 19 

### disruption, while cleaning up our air, while also 20 

### modernizing how we power our country and our 21 

### economy. This will spur up even more innovation 22276

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### that is already occurring and creating thousands 1 

### of more jobs in the green-collar economy with 2 

### billions of dollars of new investments. 3 

### Colorado has already received $600 in 4 

### federal disaster aid in 2011, 2012 to cover 5 

### extreme weather events from climate disruption, 6 

### which is why we as a nation must comply to this 7 

### plan together. Climate disruption will continue 8 

### to affect Colorado and our way of life. In order 9 

### to lessen this impact, we will need to see the 10 

### federal implementation plan deployed quickly for 11 

### any state that does not comply. 12

### I have seen climate disruption in my home 13 

### state of Missouri. I have seen the impacts in 14 

### Oklahoma while going to college there and 15 

### working. And now here in Colorado I see the 16 

### changes occurring from Rocky Mountain National 17 

### Park, to the floods that were occurring, to the 18 

### droughts that have been in the past back in 2012 19 

### and 2011. California has seen major impacts to 20 

### the way of life due to climate disruption as 21


### well. 22277

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### We can no longer allow unlimited amounts 1 

### of carbon into our air, but instead invest in a 2 

### future that places safeguards to protect our air, 3 

### our water, our climate, and the health of our 4 

### communities as we begin to implement the Clean 5 

### Power Plan. And I think seeing these ladies come 6 

### up tonight to talk proves that this will be an 7 

### important plan moving forward to create a better 8 

### future for their kids, and their great-grandkids, 9 

### and everyone moving forward in this country. 10

### Thank you. 11

### MR. BLOOMFIELD: Thank you. My name is 12 

### Tom Bloomfield, T-O-M B-L-O-O-M-F-I-E-L-D, and 13 

### I’m with the Gallagher Law Group. 14

### Hi. My name is Tom Bloomfield. I’m with 15 

### the Gallagher Law Group. I’m here on behalf of 16 

### Environmental Defense Fund. 17

### The EPA’s Clean Power Plan is a vital 18 

### step forward to help address global warming that 19 

### will yield benefits of 26 to $45 billion annually 20 

### once fully implanted. In particular, it is 21 

### expected to save 3,600 lives each year, and 22278

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### prevent 90,000 asthma attacks annually. 1 

### The EDF thanks EPA for finalizing this 2 

### historic carbon pollution program and these 3 

### limits that will help address our nation’s single 4 

### largest source of carbon pollution. 5 

### EDF encourages states to seize the 6 

### opportunity they will have under the CPP to 7 

### develop their own state plans tailored to their 8 

### unique opportunities for innovation and cost 9 

### savings. We encourage EPA to finalize the model 10 

### rule frameworks just as soon as possible to help 11 

### support smart state planning efforts. 12

### In particular, we encourage EPA to 13 

### consider whether some components of the model 14 

### rules can be finalized shortly after the comment 15 

### period closes in order to provide states even 16 

### more clarity as they work to develop their plans. 17 

### Standardized model rules will play an important 18 

### guidance role for states to help them develop 19 

### strong plans that ensure environmental integrity. 20 

### Model rule frameworks can help cut down on the 21 

### administration work necessary for states, 22279

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### allowing states to focus on the customizable 1 

### components of their implementation efforts that 2 

### are most important to the stakeholders in their 3


### states. 4 

### In addition, finalized rules will help 5 

### facilitate interstate trading by doing, as you 6 

### said, the heavy lifting on the detailed 7 

### underpinnings of emission trading programs, which 8 

### can help drive innovation and cost savings. In 9 

### particular, the trading-ready feature of the 10 

### model rules provide an important opportunity for 11 

### states to adopt a state plan that is compatible 12 

### with others. 13

### On the proposed federal plan, if states 14 

### decline to carry out their responsibilities to 15 

### protect human health and the environment from 16 

### damaging carbon pollution, it is EPA’s 17 

### responsibility to do so. This is the compelling 18 

### bipartisan vision of the Clean Air Act, that all 19 

### Americans are entitled to protections of clean 20 

### air under the law. To realize that vision, EPA 21 

### must ensure that real-world emission reductions 22280

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### are secured when states decline to do so. 1 

### EDF urges EPA to finalize a federal plan 2 

### that puts federal protection in place swiftly 3 

### when a state declines to act. We are in a race 4 

### against time, and climate safeguards cannot wait. 5 

### Moreover, swiftly understanding the federal plan 6 

### parameters will provide additional certainty for 7 

### businesses. 8 

### In addition, we support EPA’s proposal to 9 

### issue a federal plan for any state that does not 10 

### meet one of the interim state planning 11 

### milestones. We urge EPA to do so within one year 12 

### or less if a state doesn’t meet those. 13

### It is also essential that EPA ensure a 14 

### plan that is properly implemented in cases where 15 

### the state is not implementing its own plan and 16 

### fails to take corrective action. This federal 17 

### plan must fully account for any foregone emission 18 

### reductions. 19

### We also urge EPA to put in place 20 

### effective federal limits on carbon pollution when 21 

### a state declines to carry out its responsibility. 22281

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### That means EPA must adopt enforceable limits on 1 

### the volume of carbon pollution discharged by 2 

### affected power plants, and ensure that such 3 

### limits are accompanied by strong measures to 4 

### ensure that these limits are not circumvented, 5 

### and generate real reductions across the power 6 

### sector. Any finalized federal plan should be 7 

### trading-ready so companies can retain maximum 8 

### flexibility to secure least-cost emission 9 

### reductions. 10

### Furthermore, even in the context of a 11 

### federal plan, EPA should offer opportunities to 12 

### work in partnership with the state. For example, 13 

### EPA can allow a state to customize certain 14 

### modular elements of the federal plan so long as 15 

### it does not undermine the environmental integrity 16 

### of the program. In addition, EPA could allow a 17 

### state to carry out and implement and enforce the 18 

### federal plan. Moreover, a state should always 19 

### have the option to step in and replace the 20 

### federal plan with an individualized state plan. 21

### We urge EPA to finalize its Clean Energy 22282

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### Incentive Program. It is essential that there 1 

### are incentives for early action to reduce carbon 2 

### pollution before the 2022 start of the Clean 3 

### Power Plan so that we can continue the progress 4 

### that America’s already making to address carbon 5 

### pollution from the electricity sector. We 6 

### support EPA’s commitment to design the CEIP to 7 

### encourage additional reductions, and not reduce 8 

### program stringency. 9 

### In addition, EPA should take care in 10 

### laying out its definition of low-income 11 

### efficiency supporting authentic community 12 

### engagement in CEIP design processes, and 13 

### providing appropriate technical guidance in order 14 

### to ensure that the programs are judiciously 15 

### targeted and fully leveraged to benefit low16 

### income communities. 17

### Thank you again for the opportunity to 18 

### provide these comments. 19

### MS. NOONAN: Mr. Applegate, you had –- we 20 

### would be interested if you could submit in your 21 

### written comments anything you had about the 22283

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### giveaway section that you were describing, no 1 

### giveaways. If you have specifics about that, we 2 

### would be very interested in what your definition 3 

### of that is. 4 

### MR. APPLEGATE: All right. Thank you. 5 

### MS. HIGHT: And Mr. Bloomfield mention 6 

### the Clean Energy Incentive Program, and we’re 7 

### having a number of outreach calls about the Clean 8 

### Energy Incentive Program for folks to provide 9 

### feedback to us about what they’d like to see for 10 

### the design and implementation details of that 11 

### program. These are open to the public. The next 12 

### one will be on November 23 in the evening. So if 13 

### you feel so inclined to listen in to that, you 14 

### can. There are also calls on December 1, and 15 

### November 30, and details for those are all on our 16 

### website. 17

### MS. NOONAN: Is there anyone here who has 18 

### not yet spoken who would like to at this time? 19

### Okay. With that, I think we’re going to 20 

### take a short recess, and come back at 7:05. 21

22284

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### (Whereupon, at 6:49 p.m., a brief recess 1 

### was taken, to reconvene at 7:04 p.m.) 2 

### MS. NOONAN: We’re going to resume the 3 

### hearing. Again, I apologize that we can’t figure 4 

### it out, but the microphones do not seem to be 5 

### working. So we have opened and closed the blinds 6 

### and other things, so we apologize we can’t get 7 

### the sound system to work. 8 

### At any rate, our next two speakers would 9 

### be David Smaldone and Mike Nasi. 10

### And if you’re having trouble hearing, 11 

### please come forward and sit, please. 12

### MR. SMALDONE: My name is David Smaldone 13

### MS. NOONAN: And could you spell it for 14 

### the court reporter? 15

### DAVID SMALDONE: Yes. David 16


### S-M-A-L-D-O-N-E. 17

### My name is David Smaldone. I am the 18 

### President of Friends of Coal West, and I’m also 19 

### here tonight speaking on behalf of the Utah 20 

### Mining Association. 21

### I’d like to make a few points. One of 22285

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### them is that the underlying principle of the 1 

### Clean Power Plan is illegal, so to implement this 2 

### Clean Power Plan is also illegal. And I’d like 3 

### to respectfully request that the rulemaking 4 

### should be stopped until the Clean Power Plan is 5 

### either deemed legal, or illegal. I think that is 6 

### appropriate. 7 

### Secondly, there’s really a face of the 8 

### impact to the Clean Power Plan. Even though it’s 9 

### not discussed very much, the Clean Power Plan 10 

### will actually increase electric rates to both 11 

### businesses, and to individuals. This is more 12 

### than just putting coal miners out of work, and a 13 

### plan that diminishes coal, electricity that’s 14 

### produced by coal. 15

### In Utah 80 percent of the electrical 16 

### power is produced by coal. Utah has one of the 17 

### lowest electric rates in the nation, and it’s 18 

### really due to the low cost of coal. And I should 19 

### make the point that coal mines in the nation and 20 

### in the West have one of the strongest safety 21 

### records of heavy industries. If you make a 22286

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### comparison to heavy industries, coal mining is 1 

### one of the lowest. Also the electric generation 2 

### that’s produced by coal is also low. 3 

### But the real face and the real tragedy is 4 

### that people are going to be faced with higher 5 

### electric bills. Small business owners are going 6 

### to be faced with higher electric bills. And I 7 

### was at a meeting several years ago, or just a 8 

### couple years ago, and someone asked, “Why are 9 

### businesses wanting to move to Utah?” And, you 10 

### know, the first impression is because it’s 11 

### beautiful, you know, they had the Olympics here, 12 

### and all that. It’s really because they 13 

### essentially have almost the lowest power prices 14 

### in the United States. If you look at a chart 15 

### that shows all the states in the union, Utah has 16 

### one of the lowest, and it’s really due to that 17 

### most of the coal, 80 percent –- or most of the 18 

### power is produced by coal. 19

### And lastly, this is being done for what, 20 

### one hundredth of an inch of a sea level rise? I 21 

### mean really all of this impact to come through 22287

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### with this Clean Power Plan is very minimal. The 1 

### actual environmental impact is very miniscule and 2 

### minimal, and there’s just a lot of pain that’s 3 

### going to be the result for many individuals, 4 

### elderly, and small business owners, and large 5 

### corporations. 6 

### And it’s not all about money. The coal 7 

### industry, the electrical generation industry 8 

### really have paid a lot of money to put 9 

### environmental impacts or environmental facilities 10 

### on their plants to control environmental 11 

### emissions. 12

### Thank you. 13

### MS. NOONANA: Mr. Nasi? 14

### MR. NASI: Yeah. Thank you. 15

### For the record my name is Mike Nasi, 16 

### N-A-S-I, and I’m the General Counsel of a group 17 

### called the Balanced Energy for Texas Coalition. 18 

### It’s a group of energy consumers, producers, and 19 

### providers committed to supporting policies that 20 

### support markets that bring about energy 21 

### diversity, but not regulatory mandates that get 22288

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### in the way of those markets. Our members and 1 

### myself will be filing several detailed comments 2 

### on the proposed federal plan in the written 3 

### comment period. 4 

### Today I just wanted to hit a couple of 5 

### high spots, two of them procedural process 6 

### oriented, and two of them substantive. 7 

### The first is about the comment period. 8 

### We know that the agency is always being asked to 9 

### do more with less, and comment periods can be 10 

### resource-intensive. But, you know, by any 11 

### measure, this is one of the most significant 12 

### regulatory proposals, you know, maybe second only 13 

### to the regulatory proposal that preceded it that 14 

### it’s proposing to implement. And so, you know, a 15 

### 60-day –- the comment period that would end in 16 

### January is insufficient, in our opinion. And we 17 

### would respectfully request and lodge now and we 18 

### will be doing so again in our comments that we 19 

### file, but now is the time to implore the EPA to 20 

### extend at least by 90 days the written comment 21 

### period. Much more time is needed, really for two 22289

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### specific reasons, among others. 1 

### One is there are very innovative but 2 

### brand new credit trading proposals that are part 3 

### of this federal plan. The Clean Energy Incentive 4 

### Program is a case in point. It’s never seen the 5 

### light of day in terms of the public’s input. It 6 

### is now, and that input will be meaningful, but it 7 

### will be much more meaningful the more time we 8 

### have to digest it. The members of our group, the 9 

### people who produce electricity and consume it, 10 

### need more time to understand its impacts. That’s 11 

### particularly true given the fact that most of the 12 

### agency’s, EPA’s, reliability assessments, grid 13 

### stability assessments are based on the success, 14 

### the likely success of credit programs, of trading 15 

### programs. So since trading, as part of a federal 16 

### plan implementation, is so central to its success 17 

### in not upsetting grid reliability, we would 18 

### implore the agency to have a longer written 19 

### comment period to make sure we vet those trading 20


### programs. 21

### A related process question is the fact 22290

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### that the public hearing -– as much as we love 1 

### Denver, love Denver coming from Austin, and maybe 2 

### even get to see some snow today, one public 3 

### hearing location, literally just one west of 4 

### Atlanta is inadequate. It may not feel 5 

### inadequate after two days of sitting in this 6 

### room, but certainly for people who have to travel 7 

### a thousand plus miles, the rate-paying public 8 

### really deserves an opportunity to speak about the 9 

### impacts of this rule, as do environmental 10 

### interests for that matter. And we would implore 11 

### the agency to revisit how many public hearings 12 

### it’s going to have about the federal plan before 13 

### it concludes the written comment period 14 

### certainly. 15

### The second procedural question has to do 16 

### with the need to ensure right up front to the 17 

### public that there’s going to be a comment period, 18 

### a notice and comment period that complies with 19 

### the Administrative Procedures Act when EPA moves 20 

### in an individual state with the federal plan. 21 

### You know, in reading the several hundred pages of 22291

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### the preamble, it’s pretty clear that EPA is 1 

### commencing a public participation process on this 2 

### plan at a high level, and the implication is that 3 

### when or if a state files an inadequate plan, or 4 

### for whatever reason doesn’t submit a plan, or 5 

### can’t because internal strife prevents it from 6 

### doing so, that somehow this is going to be 7 

### ministerial the word is used in implementing this 8 

### federal plan in those states. 9 

### I would submit and we would respectfully 10 

### request that the EPA needs to be very clear that 11 

### when it moves to implement this federal plan at a 12 

### state level it needs to go through the public 13 

### participation process, the notice and comment 14 

### process. A great analogy is the EPA clearly is 15 

### going to require each state that decides to do a 16 

### plan to have extensive public input processes. 17 

### In fact, it’s, by definition, a required element 18 

### of the plan to get an extension. And so EPA is 19 

### commencing some processes in conjunction with 20 

### this stage of the federal plan, but I think it is 21 

### incumbent upon the agency to be much more clear 22292

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### up front that it will be going through a notice 1 

### and comment period when it implements the federal 2 

### plan at a state-specific level. There are far 3 

### too many state-specific variables, far too many 4 

### differences in terms of market structures, market 5 

### designs, grid needs, and resource mixes to think 6 

### that we can really knock out all the public 7 

### issues we want in this broad rulemaking that 8 

### we’re currently doing. 9 

### So those are our two procedural 10 

### suggestions, more public comment on this plan, 11 

### and making sure we go through notice and comment 12 

### once we implement at the state level, two of a 13 

### myriad, but two that we’ll hit today. 14

### Substantive issues, one has to do with 15 

### the legal precedent that is set by this plan. 16 

### You know, it was already mentioned that if the 17 

### underlying rulemaking here in the Clean Power 18 

### Plan, the 111(d) rule, if that rule has problems, 19 

### then any plan that would propose to implement it 20 

### has the same problems. And I certainly agree 21 

### with the suggestion that this agency does not 22293

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### need to develop a federal enforcement plan for a 1 

### rule that has fundamental legal problems. 2 

### First, it should, at minimum, wait for 3 

### the court to determine that that rule is legal. 4 

### Second, it should be on parallel track developing 5 

### a Clean Power Plan, if it’s going to develop one, 6 

### that actually is within its statutory authority. 7 

### And I would very briefly define that as actually 8 

### being derived from what can be accomplished 9 

### within the fence line of a power plan, inside the 10 

### fence. So, you know, we will certainly, members 11 

### and myself, be detailing a long list of legal 12 

### problems with the underlying Clean Power Plan in 13 

### litigation that we’re actively involved in. 14

### But I would just simply implore anybody 15 

### reading this transcript, listening to these 16 

### tapes, however it’s going to be communicated to 17 

### the public, that the precedent set is a very 18 

### dangerous one here. We have a rule that affords 19 

### the federal executive unchecked authority over 20 

### things that it has never been empowered to have 21 

### authority over. The state grid, electrical grid 22294

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### is something that has been sacrosanct. You know, 1 

### states have sovereignty over that. There are 2 

### long reasons for why that is. The Federal Clean 3 

### Air Act was devised very carefully on the 4 

### principle of cooperative federalism, that the 5 

### state and federal government would be in 6 

### cooperation with each other. When we have a rule 7 

### that basically says, “We are going to impose this 8 

### set of rules through a federal plan, but you’ve 9 

### got a state plan, and it’ll be flexible,” that’s 10 

### coercive federalism, not cooperative federalism. 11

### And the last point I’d make briefly is 12 

### that this rule is about all pain and no gain. No 13 

### matter how much, you know, cries for action there 14 

### might be, by EPA’s own modeling methodology, 15 

### we’re talking about an almost immeasurable 16 

### climate impact. We do not agree with the 17 

### principle that this is leadership. We do not 18 

### believe that the federal government should be 19 

### entering into international negotiations based on 20 

### a rule that very well could be struck down by the 21 

### courts, which the Congress openly disagrees with. 22295

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### We are all about technology. We think 1 

### technology can address climate issues, and we 2 

### would ask the EPA to return to that basis for 3 

### regulation. 4 

### Thank you for the time. 5 

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. And I had a 6 

### clarifying question for you. It’s about the 7 

### public comment period. Thank you for sharing 8 

### your request for that. I would also encourage 9 

### you to go through the letter-writing process that 10 

### goes with that as well. 11

### MR. NASI: Right. 12

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you. 13

### MS. NASI: Thank you for your time. 14

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 15

### Up next we have Judy Colgan and Andy 16 

### Berger, please. 17

### Mr. Berger? 18

### MR. BERGER: Yes, that’s me. 19

### MS. NOONAN: Okay. You can sit right 20


### there. 21


### MR. BERGER: Sure. 22296

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### MS. NOONAN: State your name. 1 

### MS. COLGAN: I am Judy Colgan. It’s 2 

### C-O-L-G-A-N. I am the Executive Director of 3 

### Rocky Mountain Coal Mining Institute. We are an 4 

### association that represents eight states in the 5 

### West, North Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, 6 

### Utah, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. 7 

### This rulemaking is particularly onerous 8 

### for four of our states. North Dakota, Wyoming, 9 

### Colorado, and Texas are being hit particularly 10 

### hard through this. As Mr. Nasi stated, it should 11 

### be held within a state assessment of what’s right 12 

### for that state for the needs for that state, 13 

### rather than it being a blanket situation. 14

### You have heard a lot of statistics today, 15 

### I’m sure your head is spinning with all that, and 16 

### legal things. I want to talk to you on a 17 

### personal level, because this is truly going to 18 

### impact communities. There are communities like 19 

### Craig, Colorado in Northwest Colorado that that 20 

### is the industry that feeds that town. And if 21 

### they have to shut down the coal industry, then 22297

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### you lose an entire community. And when you think 1 

### about the tax money that is paid from severance 2 

### taxes, from different things by these coal 3 

### companies, how are you going to replace that tax 4 

### money if you wipe that out? They build little 5 

### league fields, community centers. They do all 6 

### kinds of huge community things. And you’re 7 

### taking those things away. And small businesses 8 

### who are barely getting by now, they’re struggling 9 

### to keep their doors open. When they’re having to 10 

### increase their electricity costs, that depends. 11 

### That might put a business completely out that 12 

### could have maybe weathered it and sustained it 13 

### and become viable and stronger, but with higher 14 

### electricity bills, they can’t. 15

### My mother is elderly. She lives on a 16 

### fixed income. And I guarantee you that with a 30 17 

### to 40-percent increase in her electricity bill 18 

### she’s going to have to make some choices. Is 19 

### that going to be food? Is that going to be 20 

### medicine? No person should have to make those 21 

### choices for no good reason. 22298

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### Now, I notice back here the, “I love 1 

### clean air,” shirts and stuff, which I think are 2 

### awesome. You will not find bigger 3 

### environmentalists than people who work in the 4 

### coal industry. We live in these areas. We raise 5 

### our children in these areas. We put the land 6 

### back to better quality than it was before. Yes, 7 

### we do disturb the land during the time that we’re 8 

### giving economic benefit. Then we put it all back 9 

### better than it was before. Clean air is not more 10 

### important to any person than it is in the people 11 

### who live and work in those areas. We don’t want 12 

### to –- we are proud of how beautiful Colorado, 13 

### Utah –- we love those areas. We live there. We 14 

### raise our children there. It’s important to us 15


### too. 16

### But what’s also important to us is a 17 

### standard of living that we provide that makes it 18 

### affordable. And when people have to match -- 19 

### their electricity bill is almost as expensive as 20 

### their mortgage for no reason that’s going to be 21 

### measurable, then that’s something we have to look 22299

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### at. You know, it has to be for the benefit of 1 

### everyone. This proposal as it is now is not 2 

### beneficial. And we would ask for additional time 3 

### for comments and consideration. 4 

### Thank you. 5 

### MR. BERGER: Thank you. Good evening. 6 

### My name is Andy Berger. I’m a substitute for 7 

### Rick Gordon, who is Chairman of the Board of 8 

### Directors of Tri-State Generation and 9 

### Transmission Association. Mr. Gordon could not 10 

### attend at this speaking time because of the 11 

### forecast for his part of rural Colorado. As 12 

### Senior Manager of Environmental Policy for Tri13 

### State, I appreciate the opportunity to provide 14 

### our comments on the Environmental Protection 15 

### Agency’s proposed federal plan and model trading 16


### rules. 17

### Tri-State is a not-for-profit wholesale 18 

### electric power supply cooperative providing 19 

### electric power to 44 rural electric cooperatives 20 

### and their 1.5 million members across Colorado, 21 

### Nebraska, New Mexico, and Wyoming. What makes us 22300

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### unique among utilities is that cooperatives like 1 

### Tri-State are member-owned and governed, and 2 

### operate on a not-for-profit basis. Our governing 3 

### decisions are based on sound financial 4 

### principles, utility industry best practices, and, 5 

### most importantly, the needs of our members. We 6 

### are different than investor-owned utilities. Our 7 

### interests are not driven by shareholders, but by 8 

### those we serve. We are committed to providing 9 

### reliable, affordable, and responsible power to 10


### our members that serve consumers at the end of 11 

### the lines. We serve a diverse customer base. 12


### Some of our members serve areas that are 13 

### experiencing great economic expansion, while 14 

### other members serve some of the poorest 15 

### communities in rural America. As a cooperative, 16 

### all of Tri-State’s costs, including complying 17 

### with regulations like the Clean Power Plan, are 18 

### paid by our member owners. We use a diverse mix 19 

### of generation sources including coal, natural 20 

### gas, hydroelectric, wind, and solar power. We 21 

### own more than 5,300 miles of transmission line 22301

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### across our service territory. In 2014, 24 1 

### percent of energy delivered by Tri-State to its 2 

### member systems was generated from non-carbon 3 

### dioxide emitting sources. Since 2008, Tri-State 4 

### has added nearly 250 megawatts of renewable 5 

### energy, and is under contract to add an 6 

### additional 281 megawatts by 2017. 7 

### Tri-State supports both financially and 8 

### operationally progressive energy efficiency 9 

### programs offered by our member systems. Despite 10 

### these investments, Tri-State relies on fossil 11 

### fuel-fired generation to serve load, maintain 12 

### reliability, and control costs for our members. 13

### During the rulemaking process for the 14 

### Clean Power Plan, Tri-State and its member 15 

### systems raised several legal and technical issues 16 

### with the proposal, and expressed concerns that it 17 

### would significantly impact our members. We have 18 

### many of the same concerns with the proposed 19 

### federal plan and model trading rules, and we plan 20 

### to submit detailed comments. 21

### Tri-State is committed to working with 22302

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### officials in the five states in which we operate 1 

### to develop state plans and minimize the impact on 2 

### rural consumers and employees at our power 3 

### plants. This is a complex task, given that 4 

### states will be developing plans independently. 5 

### But the plans will impact consumers in other 6 

### states. For instance, if New Mexico makes a 7 

### decision to close or curtail one of our plants, 8 

### the impacts are not only on our members in New 9 

### Mexico, but also across Nebraska, Colorado, and 10 

### Wyoming. 11

### Our concerns with the proposed federal 12 

### plan and model trading rules include the 13 

### legality, timing, and equitability. I will focus 14 

### on timing and equitability. 15


### Both the Clean Power Plan and the 16 

### proposed federal plan consist of numerous 17 

### compliance options including rate or mass-based 18 

### options, and trading or non-trading options. 19 

### Evaluating these options requires each state to 20 

### dedicate significant time and resources to 21 

### develop a plan. States are required to 22303

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### simultaneously evaluate the Clean Power Plan, 1 

### develop state plans, and evaluate the proposed 2 

### federal plan and trading rules. Each option 3 

### would have significant and unique effects on how 4 

### utilities operate. 5 

### Tri-State is concerned that states are 6 

### not in a position to effectively engage 7 

### stakeholders and complete the necessary analyses 8 

### within the short time frame. We are concerned 9 

### that states will need additional authority, 10 

### funding, and staffing, all of which need to be 11 

### appropriated through the legislative process. 12

### Tri-State is concerned that states will 13 

### make decisions on a path forward before the EPA 14 

### finalizes the model rules in summer 2016. EPA 15 

### should encourage states to wait on major 16 

### decisions until the rules are finalized. 17

### Regarding equitability, we are concerned 18 

### the EPA ignores the investments in existing 19 

### plants, and the remaining useful life of each 20 

### plant. Tri-State has invested hundreds of 21 

### millions to ensure our plants are efficient, and 22304

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### have the best controls to reduce emissions. Our 1 

### plants are located in rural areas that rely on 2 

### energy production to survive, produce low-cost 3 

### power for our members, and are critical to 4 

### regional reliability. 5 

### Tri-State operations are clean, 6 

### efficient, support rural economies, are low-cost 7 

### and critical to reliability, yet our cooperative8 

### owned power plants are considered just like every 9 

### other power plant in the nation. The one-size10 

### fits-all approach treats less-efficient plants 11 

### the same as efficient plants, and plants with 12 

### emission controls the same as those without 13


### controls. 14

### Thank you for the opportunity to provide 15


### comment. 16

### MS. NOONAN: Thank you both. 17

### MR. BERGER: Would you like me to leave a 18 

### hard copy of my comments? 19

### MS. NOONAN: Yes, please. 20

### At this time there are no other 21 

### registered speakers. Is there anyone here who 22305

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### has not yet spoken today or is schedule to speak 1 

### tomorrow and who would like to speak at this 2 

### time? 3 

### Okay. With that we will take a recess 4 

### for 10 minutes, and then return. 5 

### (Whereupon, at 7:28 p.m., the hearing was 6 

### adjourned.) 7

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