1

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4 

### Public Meeting on 5


### Clean Power Plan 6 

### Proposed Federal Plan and Model Rules 7 

### Day 2 8 

### 9:31 a.m. to 5:01 p.m. 9 

### Friday, November 13, 2015 10

11 

### November 12-13, 2015 12

13 

### William S. Moorhead Federal Building 14 

### Room 1310 15 

### 1000 Liberty Avenue 16 

### Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222 17

18

19

20

21

222

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### EPA Panel for Morning Session: 1 

### MIKE KOERBER, Hearing officer; and 2

### Associate Director for Policy, 3

### Office of Air and Radiation, 4

### Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 5


### MEG VICTOR,Office of Air and Radiation, 6

### Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 7 

### BRIAN KEAVENY, Office of Air and Radiation, 8

### Research Triangle Park, North Carolina 9 

### MICHAEL GORDON, EPA Regional Office, 10

### Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 11

12 

### EPA Panel for Afternoon Session: 13 

### DAVID CAMPBELL, Chair, EPA 14



### EMILY LINN 15


### ROBERT STOLTZFUS 16

17

18

19

20

21

223

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### ALEX WALLACH, Pittsburgh United 5 3 

### WALTER MASTROPAOLO, Resident of Pittsburgh 10 4


### RUSSELL ZERBO 11 5 

### DR. MICHAEL GOODHART, Pittsburgh350.org 16 6 

### FRED KRAYBILL, Part Owner and Manager, 7

### Thomas Boulevard Group, Pittsburgh 24 8 

### BRIAN COHEN, Photographer 29 9 

### RACHEL NEFFSHADE, Resident of Pittsburgh 33 10 

### KEVIN PANG, Student, University of Pittsburgh 36 11 

### COURT GOULD, Executive Director, 12

### Sustainable Pittsburgh 39 13 

### JODY HANDLEY, Resident of Pittsburgh 47 14


### ERIC CASTEEL 55 15 

### MIKE BARRY, Founder, Solar Land Solutions 63 16 

### CASSI STEENBLOK, Resident of Pittsburgh; and 17

### Program Organizer, Clean Water Action 69 18 

### MARIAN LUISI, Resident of Pittsburgh and 19


### Member of Green for All 73 20 

### WILL BITTINGER 83 21

224

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### C O N T E N T S 1


### PAGE 2 

### SARAH SANFILIPPO, 3

### Women for a Healthy Environment 89 4


### DR. STANLEY J. KABALA 95 5 

### JENNIFER MYERS, Resident of Pittsburgh 101 6 

### HEATHER SAGE, Resident of Pittsburgh 105 7 

### JOHN HORCHNER, Resident of Pittsburgh 108 8 

### KACY McGILL, University of Pittsburgh 112 9 

### CAROLYN RUMRILL, University of Pittsburgh 116 10

### ALEXANDRA STASH, University of Pittsburgh 119 11 

### SHANNON CONNORS, University of Pittsburgh 121 12 

### ED GOOD, Utility Workers Union of America 124 13 

### BRITTANY FAULKNER, University of Pittsburgh 130 14

### ANGELA WILEY, Resident of Pittsburgh 133 15


### JORDAN ROMANUS 137 16

### ANDREW BUTCHER, Owner and Founder, GTECH 139 17 

### JESSICA SCHATZ, University of Pittsburgh 143 18

19

20

21

225

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### P R O C E E D I N G S 1 

### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Wallach, thank you 2 

### for coming today. My name is Mike Koerber. I'll 3 

### be the hearing officer for this morning's session 4 

### on EPA's proposed rules dealing with the Clean 5


### Power Plan. 6 

### I'm going to spare the one audience or 7 

### two audience members my long introduction and 8 

### just note that we're here -- we are here to hear 9 

### from you, to listen to your comments. For your 10 

### convenience, we have a timer light at the front 11 

### table. You have 5 minutes to speak. Given how 12 

### few people are here, if you run over a little 13 

### bit, no problem. When the light changes from 14 

### green to yellow, it means you have about 1 minute 15 

### left. When it turns red, then you're at your 16 

### 5-minute limit. 17 

### So, again, we're here to listen to you. 18 

### You'll be our first speaker, and I'll call Mr. 19


### Alex Wallach. 20 

### MR. WALLACH: Good morning. Thanks for 21 

### having me. My name is Alex Wallach, 226

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### W-a-l-l-a-c-h, and I am here representing 1 

### Pittsburgh United. 2 

### We are a coalition of community, faith, 3 

### labor, and environmental organizations that work 4 

### together to ensure our communities here in 5 

### Pittsburgh and across the region benefit from 6 

### economic development and that we raise living 7 

### standards for working people. 8 

### Our members range from small 9 

### environmental non-profits, like the Group Against 10 

### Smog and Pollution to Action United, which 11 

### organizes people in low-income communities, to 12 

### the service employees, International Union 32BJ, 13 

### which represents over 100,000 janitors, security 14 

### guards, and other property service workers along 15 

### the entire East Coast. 16 

### And I'm here today to say that our 17 

### members stand united in their support of a strong 18 

### Clean Power Plan that reduces greenhouse gas 19 

### emissions, loosens the air pollution chokehold on 20 

### working families' lives, and supports a new 21



### energy economy. 227

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Our members live daily with the 1 

### consequences of breathing hazardously dirty air 2 

### from nearby power plants. These members are 3 

### concentrated in low-income communities across the 4 

### region and are largely communities of color. 5 

### Our members also live daily with a 6 

### service sector economy, with minimum wage jobs, 7 

### little voice at work, and the threat of being 8 

### fired at any time. And they deeply understand 9 

### the need to create a new economy that works for 10 

### everyone, and by everyone, we mean working 11 

### people, our communities, and our planet. 12 

### We firmly believe that we cannot be 13 

### driven by politicians and powerful corporations 14 

### that prioritize their pocketbooks at the expense 15 

### of our communities, and we reject the false 16 

### choice between a healthy economy and a healthy 17 

### environment. Our communities can and must have 18 

### both. We believe that the economy can thrive 19 

### when we tackle dangerous pollution, but that we 20 

### also must ensure that all workers, especially 21 

### those in industries that will be directly 228

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### impacted by the Clean Power Plan, be given strong 1 

### support to a transition into family-sustaining 2 

### jobs because these workers in coal plants and 3 

### industries directly impacted by the Clean Power 4 

### Plan are also those that stood together to create 5 

### strong union, family-sustaining jobs, and we need 6 

### to be able to provide transition support to 7 

### ensure that the new economy that's created and 8 

### hopefully supported by a strong Clean Power Plan 9 

### encourages that same style of job. 10 

### So thank you for having us here or having 11 

### me here today. Thank you, my friend in the 12 

### audience for listening. I guess I -- I don't 13 

### know. If you have questions, we can chat. 14 

### MR. KOERBER: Questions from any of the 15 

### panelists? 16 

### And I should introduce my fellow 17 

### panelists to you. I'm with EPA's Air 18 

### Headquarters Office in North Carolina. Joining 19 

### me on the panel are Brian Keaveny, also with 20 

### EPA's Air Headquarters Office in North Carolina, 21 

### and Meg Victor with EPA's Air Headquarters Office 229

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### in Washington, D.C., and finally, Michael Gordon 1 

### who is with EPA's Regional Air Office in 2 

### Philadelphia. 3 

### MR. WALLACH: Well, thanks for coming to 4 

### Pittsburgh. 5 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thanks for 6 

### being here. 7 

### If there are no other speakers, we'll go 8



### on recess. 9 

### [Recess taken from 9:16 to 9:32 a.m.] 10 

### MR. KOERBER: Good morning, sir. Thank 11 

### you for being here. You can hand the court 12 

### reporter. That will make his job a little bit 13 

### easier. 14 

### And, sir, if you'd like to have a seat at 15 

### the table. Good morning, Mr. Mastropaolo. 16 

### Welcome to our public hearing on EPA's proposed 17 

### federal plan for the Clean Power Plan. 18 

### Joining me on the panel, we have Brian 19 

### Keaveny, Meg Victor, and Michael Gordon. My name 20 

### is Mike Koerber. I'm the hearing officer. We're 21 

### all from EPA Headquarters or EPA Regional 2210

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Offices, so thank you for being here today. 1 

### I'll reopen the session, and feel free to 2 

### begin when you're ready. 3 

### MR. MASTROPAOLO: Okay. First of all, 4 

### thank you for the excellent pronunciation of my 5 

### name. I'm Walter Mastropaolo. I'm also speaking 6 

### for my wife Eva Mastropaolo. We reside at 460 7 

### Austin Avenue in Pittsburgh. She read these 8 

### comments and agree with them also. 9 

### My wife, Eva, and I strongly support the 10 

### Clean Power Plan. Our comments to improve the 11 

### plan are the following. The justification for 12 

### the plan should emphasize more the external costs 13 

### of power using fossil fuels. Using coal as an 14 

### example, a 2011 Harvard study estimates these 15 

### external costs to be $175 billion to $500 billion 16 

### annually for the United States. 17 

### An analysis by West Virginia University 18 

### of the cost-benefit ratio for the coal industry 19 

### in West Virginia estimates the total economic 20 

### benefit of the coal industry to the state to be 21 

### $8.1 billion, but the health-related cost alone 2211

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### to the state is $18.6 billion to $84.5 billion. 1 

### These studies are summarized and 2 

### referenced on my written comments. It is clear 3 

### from these and other analyses that fossil fuels 4 

### have been and continue to be heavily subsidized 5 

### through these external costs. We urge that this 6 

### point should be strongly emphasized in the 7 

### justification for the plan. 8 

### In addition, these costs are incurred 9 

### continuously as long as the fossil fuels are used 10 

### for power. In contrast, the minimal external 11 

### cost of renewables, such as wind and solar, 12 

### decreased to near zero once the facility is 13 

### built, since there is no external cost for using 14 

### wind or sunlight as an energy source. 15 

### Thank you for allowing me to comment on 16


### the Clean Power Plan. 17 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thank you 18 

### for being with us today. 19 

### MR. MASTROPAOLO: Okay. 20 

### MR. KOERBER: Next, I'd like to call 21


### Russell Zerbo. 2212

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### MR. ZERBO: Good morning. 1 

### MR. KOERBER: Good morning, Mr. Zerbo. 2 

### Thank you for being with us today. 3 

### MR. ZERBO: Thank you for having me. 4 

### I submitted more formal comments, but 5 

### while I'm here, I just wanted to touch on a few 6 

### specific things. 7 

### I appreciate the ambitious schedule of 8 

### public hearings on the Clean Power Plan the EPA 9 

### has undertaken. It is a great relief to know 10 

### that Pennsylvania does not plan to request an 11 

### extension to comply with the Clean Power Plan and 12 

### should not require a federal implementation plan, 13 

### but broaching the topic remains important. 14 

### Rather than speaking to the FIP, I want 15 

### to address some things to look out for in the 16 

### state's plan which seems pragmatic. 17 

### With Clean Air Council's petition to 18 

### update building codes in the state, we have 19 

### offered concrete solutions to reducing 20 

### Pennsylvania's carbon dioxide pollution and 21 

### encouraging a healthy economy. The Council 2213

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### believes energy efficiency is an ideal method to 1 

### promote jobs in construction and retrofitting 2 

### while reducing resident utility bills and 3 

### conserving energy. 4 

### To fully realize the benefits of reducing 5 

### energy consumption, we have to generate less 6 

### electricity. I realize that Pennsylvania covets 7 

### its position as a net exporter of electricity, 8 

### but there must be some accounting for the 9 

### pollution generated from electricity not used in 10 

### Pennsylvania. 11 

### I also appreciate Pennsylvania's renewed 12 

### interest in environmental justice for its 13 

### citizens. This interest requires swift 14 

### follow-through and a clear policy that prevents 15 

### the clustering of toxic pollution sources in 16 

### minority low-income areas. 17 

### Pennsylvania has a confluence or, rather, 18 

### Pennsylvania has confluences of these forces, 19 

### unfortunately, encouraged by the state's Tier 2 20 

### alternative energy portfolio standards. Within 21 

### those Tier 2 standards, Pennsylvania encourages 2214

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### and subsidizes the burning of coal refuse and 1 

### municipal waste where it otherwise would not be 2 

### profitable. 3 

### Nine of Pennsylvania's 14 coal refuse 4 

### power plants are in environmental justice areas. 5 

### Five of Pennsylvania's six trash incinerators are 6 

### in environmental justice areas. Six of 7 

### Pennsylvania's seven coal-fired power plants are 8 

### in environmental justice areas. 9


### Because the EPA uses census tracts to 10 

### define areas that are either 20 percent minority 11 

### or 30 percent under the poverty line, many 12 

### communities within the radii of pollution sources 13 

### are ignored. A simple solution is to look at the 14 

### demographics of areas within 3 miles of a 15 

### pollution source. Using gerrymandered Census 16 

### tracts only serves to confuse the environmental 17 

### realities of being poor or non-white. 18 

### And I realize that the EPA is evolving 19 

### their EJ strategy to include a number of 20 

### different factors, but I believe Pennsylvania is 21 

### still on the old system of using Census tracts, 2215

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Coal refuse and municipal solid 1 

### waste are also significantly more carbon 2 

### intensive than coal. You have heard technology 3 

### claiming these fuels can be used to aid 4 

### compliance with the Clean Power Plan. This is an 5 

### accounting deception. 6 

### EPA ignores much of the carbon dioxide 7 

### emissions from municipal solid waste under the 8 

### guides that it has generated from the burning of 9 

### paper. To equate the national release of carbon 10 

### dioxide emissions from municipal solid waste 11 

### under the guides that it has generated from the 12 

### burning of paper. To equate the natural release 13 

### of carbon dioxide from the decomposition of trees 14 

### to the incineration of paper products is 15 

### ridiculous and a clear concession to the waste 16 

### industry. 17 

### Likewise, the emissions from coal refuse 18 

### power plants should be taken as they are and not 19 

### allowed excuses or omissions. Touting the 20 

### environmental benefits of trash or coal refuse 21 

### incineration requires a judgment that the health 2216

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### and well-being of someone living near a waste 1 

### pile is more important than that of someone 2 

### living near a waste burner. 3 

### Even without increased wind and solar 4 

### energy, Pennsylvania can meet the EPA's carbon 5 

### dioxide reduction goal through accounting for the 6 

### state's exported energy and updated building 7 

### codes. There is no reason to expand coal refuse 8 

### or trash incineration. 9 

### If Pennsylvania is to increase 10 

### environmental justice, these pollution sources 11 

### should be decommissioned. The power they 12 

### generate is negligible, and a vast majority of 13 

### waste plans are over 20 years old at least. 14 

### Thank you for this opportunity and your 15 

### efforts to instill climate change. 16 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. And you 17 

### said you submitted written comments or plan to 18 

### submit written comments? 19 

### MR. ZERBO: I e-mailed them yesterday. 20 

### MR. KOERBER: Excellent. Thank you so 21


### much. 2217

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Next, I'd like to call Michael Goodhart. 1 

### Good morning, Mr. Goodhart. Thank you 2 

### for being with us today. 3 

### DR. GOODHART: Good morning. Thank you 4 

### for having me. My name is Dr. Michael Goodhart. 5 

### I'm a professor of Political Science at the 6 

### University of Pittsburgh, and I am here 7 

### representing Pittsburgh350.org, a local branch of 8 

### a global organization and movement that aims to 9 

### stop the impending climate catastrophe. 10 

### In preparing for my testimony this 11 

### morning, I consulted the EPA fact sheet entitled 12 

### "Overview of Clean Power Plan." The fact sheet 13 

### states that, and I quote, fossil fuels will 14 

### continue to be a critical component of America's 15 

### energy future, end quote. 16 

### If so, the plan is designed to fail in 17 

### protecting our climate and our communities. It 18 

### will destroy our future. Why? Because the best 19 

### climate science today, the overwhelming majority 20 

### of all climate science, tells us that if our 21 

### planet's atmosphere rises by more -- the 2218

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### temperature rises by more than 2 degrees 1 

### Centigrade, life as we know it on this planet may 2 

### well become unsustainable. 3 

### Indeed, many climate scientists worry 4 

### that we are not really safe beyond 1.5 degrees 5 

### Centigrade. We have already reached nearly .7 6 

### degrees or half of our safe carbon budget. That 7 

### means that roughly 80 percent of the known fossil 8 

### fuels reserves in the world must stay in the 9 

### ground if we are to avoid the most dire impacts 10 

### of climate change, impacts that dwarf those 11 

### already seen in the droughts, destructive super 12 

### storms, and climate-driven conflicts that are 13 

### evident all over our fragile planet. 14 

### To keep that 80 percent in the ground 15 

### means that we need to use the next few years to 16 

### transition completely off of fossil fuels 17 

### forever. If the EPA is planning on fossil fuels 18 

### being part of our energy future, it's planning on 19 

### a future of climate catastrophe. We don't need 20 

### to reduce carbon emissions. We need to eliminate 21 

### them before we expend our carbon budget. That's 2219

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### what the science tells us. That's not a question 1 

### of ideology or policy. It's a question of the 2 

### chemical composition of our atmosphere. 3 

### The Clean Power Plan is, nonetheless, a 4 

### step in the right direction. It provides the 5 

### apparatus for federal and state governments to 6 

### encourage a dramatic shift toward renewable 7 

### energy. It also recognizes the important 8 

### connections between reducing carbon emissions and 9 

### creating a healthier atmosphere and environmental 10 

### for us to inhabit. As we eliminate emissions 11 

### from burning fossil fuels, we also thereby 12 

### eliminate many toxic pollutants that undermine 13 

### our health and hold back our economy. 14 

### This is an important moment for the EPA 15 

### to be taking action. A green economy is now 16 

### within our reach. Unprecedented reductions in 17 

### the cost of renewable energy and growing 18 

### economies of scale combined with rapidly 19 

### improving technology make a fully green economy 20 

### not only possible, but cost effective in the 21 

### immediate future. 2220

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Indeed, renewables are already 1 

### competitive with fossil fuels in many markets, 2 

### despite the massive public subsidies to the 3 

### fossil fuel industry. This economic threat, in 4 

### fact, explains why the fossil fuel companies and 5 

### their moguls spend billions on misinformation and 6 

### on paying off politicians to deny climate 7 

### science. If their main asset has to stay in the 8 

### ground and if that prospect is both affordable 9 

### and appealing for health and environmental 10 

### reasons, they're finished. 11 

### Unfortunately, however, the Clean Power 12 

### Plan relies on a flawed mechanism to encourage 13 

### this shift, carbon emissions trading schemes. 14 

### Such schemes can have an effect in reducing 15 

### emissions, but they have two significant flaws. 16 

### First, carbon credit or offset markets are 17 

### notoriously rife with abuse, including bogus 18 

### offset schemes and problems of opacity. 19 

### Second, and even more worryingly, trading 20 

### schemes incentivize the placement of 21 

### high-polluting facilities in poor, minority, and 2221

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### otherwise marginalized neighborhoods where the 1 

### costs of polluting are lowest due to lax 2 

### enforcement and political disenfranchisement. 3 

### This is in part why climate change impacts the 4 

### poor and marginalized people of our country and 5 

### our planet most profoundly and directly. We find 6 

### it easy and convenient to ignore the plight of 7 

### our less fortunate neighbors. 8 

### Happily, better solutions exist. One 9 

### such solution, a close relative of what EPA 10 

### proposes, is the carbon fee and dividend plan 11 

### proposed by our friends at Citizens Climate 12 

### Lobby. In such schemes, a fee is placed on 13 

### carbon at the point of extraction, and the 14 

### revenues generated by the fee are returned to 15 

### citizens in the form of a dividend that helps 16 

### families and individuals bear the costs of 17 

### adjustment to a zero carbon future. 18 

### As the fee progressively increases, 19 

### carbon production becomes increasingly costly, 20 

### incentivizing the shift to cleaner renewable 21 

### energy achieved completely through market 2222

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### mechanisms. Such a plan is superior to trading 1 

### because it imposes a fair and equal price on 2 

### carbon in all communities, and it ensures that 3 

### fossil fuels will be phased out completely as 4 

### they lose their economic viability. The 5 

### dividends also help to ensure that the least 6 

### fortunate members of our society receive 7 

### assistance in making the transition to a clean 8 

### energy future. 9 

### The EPA should abandon cap-and-trade and 10 

### embrace fee and dividend instead. This is the 11 

### best and may be the only way to ensure that we 12 

### phase out fossil fuels in time to avert the 13 

### irreversible damage to our climate, our 14 

### environment, our communities, and our future. 15 

### EPA should also establish a clear, 16 

### predictable, and ambitious fee increase schedule 17 

### that will ensure our rapid and permanent 18 

### transition away from fossil fuels. 19 

### Thank you very much. 20 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 21 

### Can you give me 30 seconds about your 2223

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### organization, just a quick download? 1 

### DR. GOODHART: Yes, absolutely. 2 

### Oh, yeah. Sorry. So Pittsburgh350.org 3 

### is a local grassroots, actually genuinely 4 

### grassroots, not funded by any corporate, anything 5 

### in the background, an organization. The name 350 6 

### comes from the calculation of 350 parts per 7 

### million of carbon in the atmosphere, the level at 8 

### which scientists think we need to stay below. 9 

### Unfortunately, we're up above about 400 parts per 10 

### million right now, so we've got to actually go 11 

### backwards rather than staying in place. And the 12 

### purpose of the organization is to raise 13 

### awareness, to help organize and coordinate action 14 

### in the community, and to educate people about 15 

### these important issues. 16 

### So we do that in a number of ways: 17 

### through community outreach, sponsoring rallies, 18 

### organizing around the COP21 talks coming up in 19 

### Paris and so on. 20 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you so much. 21 

### DR. GOODHART: Yeah. And I have not yet 2224

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### submitted, but I have a copy, if I can -- 1 

### MR. KOERBER: You can drop it with the 2 

### court reporter. 3 

### DR. GOODHART: Very good. Thank you so 4


### much. 5 

### MR. KOERBER: We'll make sure it gets 6 

### entered into the record along with your verbal 7 

### testimony today. Thank you so much, sir. 8 

### I'd like to call Fred Kraybill. Thank 9 

### you for being with us today. If you have extra, 10 

### we'll take one here, and if you have one for the 11 

### court reporter, that would be great. 12 

### MR. KRAYBILL: May I start? 13 

### MR. KOERBER: Yes. Whenever you're 14 

### ready, sir. 15 

### MR. KRAYBILL: All right. My name is 16 

### Fred Kraybill, and I live in Pittsburgh. I'm a 17 

### part owner and manager of Thomas Boulevard Group, 18 

### which owns and operates an apartment building. 19 

### Thomas Boulevard Group is a solar-powered 20 

### business. We have solar panels on the roof, 21 

### geothermal heating for the building, and an 2225

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### electric car for transportation. We suppose 1 

### clean energy. 2 

### Point Breeze, where we are located, 3 

### recently ran a solarized campaign to educate the 4 

### community about solar energy, and we were able to 5 

### increase the solar installations in Point Breeze 6 

### from 9 to 18 homes. The interesting thing is 7 

### what the solar home owners are saying about their 8 

### reasons for going solar, such as to help the 9 

### planet, to not contribute to other people's poor 10 

### health, to reduce our carbon footprint, and to 11 

### fight climate change. 12 

### Increasingly, the end user of electricity 13 

### is demanding clean energy and a livable climate, 14 

### and I view the EPA's Clean Power Plan as a 15 

### response by the government to meet this pressing 16


### need. 17 

### Our neighboring state of West Virginia 18 

### has been dominated by the coal industry for many 19 

### years. West Virginia not only produces a lot of 20 

### coal, but they also use a lot of coal for 21 

### electrical generation. Coal has been on the 2226

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### decline in recent years. 1 

### Pittsburghers can understand what it's 2 

### like to be dominated by one industry. At one 3 

### time, the steel was king in Pittsburgh, and we 4 

### lost this major industry in the '70s and '80s 5 

### without anything to replace it. 6 

### But West Virginia has a major opportunity 7 

### to develop wind power in its numerous wind-swept 8 

### ridges. Replacing aging, polluting power plants 9 

### with clean energy would truly be an environmental 10 

### victory that would grow the economy and create 11 

### jobs. Coal mines deplete and eventually shut 12 

### down, but the wind keeps blowing. 13 

### Worldwide, there is a clean energy race 14 

### going on. Mercom Capital predicts 57 gigawatts 15 

### of solar will be installed this year, and another 16 

### 59 gigawatts of wind power will be installed this 17 

### year. Both of these numbers are record-breaking 18 

### numbers. The clean energy race is a race America 19 

### should win, but we can't win it if we're not in 20 

### it. The Clean Power Plan puts us in the clean 21



### energy race. 2227

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### We have a major wind power corridor 1 

### developing right here in the tristate area. From 2 

### the Johnstown area in Blair and Cambria Counties, 3 

### there are several wind farms. Heading south to 4 

### Somerset County, there are about nine wind farms. 5 

### Crossing the border into Maryland, there are 6 

### several wind farms in the Deep Creek Lake area. 7 

### Then crossing the border into West Virginia is 8 

### one of the largest wind farms east of the 9 

### Mississippi in the town of Mount Storm. 10 

### We should continue this build-out. 11 

### Pennsylvania can build more wind power and also 12 

### import wind from areas such as West Virginia. 13 

### What about natural gas? We should avoid 14 

### natural gas. It may burn cleaner than coal, but 15 

### it still emits CO2

### . Gas wells deplete rapidly. 16 

### They can pollute the surrounding water supplies, 17 

### and worst of all, methane that leaks from the 18 

### pipeline infrastructure is a more potent 19 

### greenhouse gas than CO2

### . 20 

### What about the need for storage for 21 

### renewable energy? This claim is sometimes 2228

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### overblown. Balancing the intermittency of wind 1 

### and solar is not even necessary until we get to 2 

### about 25 percent mark because there are already 3 

### dispatchable resources on the grid that can 4 

### balance the variable nature of renewable energy. 5 

### After 25 percent renewable energy, we can 6 

### use storage. We have dams to store water for 7 

### irrigation, for flood control, and to generate 8 

### electricity. We even have damns that pump water 9 

### from a lower reservoir to an upper dam at night 10 

### when electricity prices are low and use that 11 

### water to generate electricity during the day when 12 

### prices are high. This type of electric storage 13 

### is called "pumped hydro." 14 

### Solutions such as this and others can get 15 

### renewable energy to high levels of penetration on 16 

### the grid. We make huge concessions to the 17 

### nuclear industry, such as the federal government 18 

### ensuring nuclear power in the event of a 19 

### catastrophic meltdown, so we most certainly can 20 

### assist renewable energy by building more storage. 21 

### We must transition all fossil fuels for a 2229

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### cleaner and healthier and safer planet. Remember 1 

### the solution to pollution is renewable. It's 2


### doable. 3 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you so much, sir. 4


### MR. KRAYBILL: Pardon? 5 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you so much. 6 

### MR. KRAYBILL: Thank you. 7 

### MR. KOERBER: Appreciate you being here 8 

### today. 9


### MR. KRAYBILL: Yeah. 10 

### MR. KOERBER: Next, I'd like to call 11 

### Bryan Cohen. 12 

### Good morning, Mr. Cohen. Thank you for 13 

### being here today. 14 

### MR. COHEN: Hi. Thank you for having me. 15


### MR. KOERBER: Yeah. 16 

### MR. COHEN: Can you hear me? 17 

### MR. KOERBER: Yes. Whenever you're 18 

### ready, sir. 19 

### MR. COHEN: Well, this is -- I don't have 20 

### any prepared remarks. I am a freelance 21 

### photographer living and working in Pittsburgh. 2230

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### I'm here because I have been working recently on 1 

### a couple of projects, one about Marcellus shale 2 

### drilling and more recently about air quality in 3 

### Pittsburgh, and this was a group photography, 4 

### documentary project about the quality of the air 5 

### that we breathe in Pittsburgh. 6 

### As you can imagine, photographing 7 

### something that you can't see is not necessarily 8 

### the easiest thing to do, but it did enable myself 9 

### and my colleagues to spend some considerable time 10 

### traveling around the area, considering the issues 11 

### surrounding air quality, and I have to say, 12 

### having lived in Pittsburgh for 9 years now and 13 

### having brought my four kids to live here and 14 

### raise them here, it has been a wonderful 15 

### experience overall. 16 

### I have to say that I started waking up in 17 

### the mornings feeling like I should apologize to 18 

### my children every time I saw them for having 19 

### brought them to this place where the quality of 20 

### the air is so palpably bad, and while I realize 21 

### this is a session that's about clean power and 2231

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### it's not just the power-generating facilities 1 

### that are responsible for the poor air in 2 

### Pittsburgh, they do make their contribution. 3 

### Having said that it's difficult to 4 

### photograph things that you can't see, there are 5 

### things that are so clearly, visibly wrong. It 6 

### really wasn't that difficult. So the kind of 7 

### stuff that you see being pumped out into the air 8 

### on a daily basis, I'm not a scientist. I don't 9 

### need to give you the figures and the data, but 10 

### simply to see people living immediately adjacent 11 

### to plants that are poisoning the atmosphere 12 

### really gave me pause for thought. 13 

### I suppose what I'd really like to do in 14 

### the couple of minutes I have left is simply to 15 

### inject that human component into the conversation 16 

### and to remind everybody that we're talking about 17 

### the quality of life for real people who are 18 

### required to breathe -- I don't know if you can 19 

### even call it air, but they are required to 20 

### breathe in substances which are clearly 21 

### deleterious to their health and to their 2232

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### lifestyle, and it affects them on a daily basis. 1 

### It affects their children. It affects their 2 

### ability to function. 3 

### And once we've sifted through all the 4 

### figures and the economics and the power issues 5 

### and who gets to make the money and who doesn't 6 

### and who gets the subsidies and who doesn't and so 7 

### on and so on, I'd just like to remind everybody 8 

### that we're talking about the lives of real 9 

### people, and the lives of people across the region 10 

### are being damaged by the kind of stuff that we're 11 

### spewing into the air. 12 

### So that's really all I have to say. 13 

### Thank you. 14 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Appreciate 15 

### you being here today. 16 

### MR. COHEN: Thank you. 17 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 18 

### Do we have any other registered speakers 19 

### in the audience? 20 

### [No audible response.] 21 

### MR. KOERBER: If not, we'll take a short 2233

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### recess until we have speakers. Thank you. 1 

### [Recess taken from 9:55 to 10:37 a.m.] 2 

### MR. KOERBER: Good morning. It's about 3 

### 10:37. We will resume, and we have two more 4 

### scheduled speakers, Rachel Neffshade and Kevin 5 

### Pang. If you'd like to come to the table. 6 

### Welcome to our public hearing on EPA's proposed 7 

### federal plan for the Clean Power Plan. We have 8 

### four representatives from EPA here to hear your 9 

### testimony this morning. I'm Mike Koerber. I'm 10 

### the hearing officer, and we do have a court 11 

### reporter transcribing your remarks this morning. 12 

### So whenever you're ready, you can begin. 13 

### MS. NEFFSHADE: Sure. May I move this? 14 

### MR. KOERBER: Yes, please. 15 

### MS. NEFFSHADE: Hi. My name is Rachel 16 

### Neffshade. I'm here to speak to you today as a 17 

### citizen of the Pittsburgh area and as a mother of 18 

### a young infant girl. 19 

### I have lived most of my life in Western 20 

### Pennsylvania, locating to the Pittsburgh area 21 

### about 4 years ago. This region, this land, and 2234

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### the life it supports holds a place of love and 1 

### awe in my heart. 2 

### I see many initiatives throughout the 3 

### city and the surrounding suburbs to pay back the 4 

### big environmental debts that Pittsburgh acquired 5 

### through the coal industry. Individuals are 6 

### trying to revitalize the soil and abandoned lots, 7 

### and they're also creating a lot of new avenues 8 

### toward a sustainable economy. 9 

### Despite all these great efforts, the coal 10 

### industries still lingers over Pittsburgh like a 11 

### grimy black veil. Our city is at the top of the 12 

### list in places most polluted by short-term 13 

### exposure to particles. There are days when it is 14 

### unsafe for my young daughter to be outside, not 15 

### because of crime rates, but because of the 16 

### pollution collected in the very air we are 17 

### breathing right now. 18 

### Anyone with asthma who lives in 19 

### Pittsburgh often finds him- or herself in the 20 

### hospital because of an attack brought on by the 21 

### poor air quality. A very good friend of mine who 2235

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### lives in the Allentown neighborhood, a low-income 1 

### neighborhood here, she has severe asthma and 2 

### often has to spend her summers in the hospital, 3 

### not outside. 4 

### The consequences from excessive levels of 5 

### carbon are predicted to be much more dire than a 6 

### few days in the house, however, if we fail to 7 

### take the proper actions, such as crop failure and 8 

### extreme weather. The consequences have just 9 

### begun to take hold across the globe, and my 10 

### daughter's generation is predicted to bear the 11 

### worst of them if we fail to act. 12 

### The Clean Power Plan is an important 13 

### factor in our urgency to act. Not only will it 14 

### cut carbon emissions up to 30 percent by 2030, it 15 

### will also stimulate the creation of jobs and 16 

### clean energy. These are hopeful changes but not 17 

### enough to have a sizable impact on climate 18 

### change. 19 

### Please do not ignore the magnitude of our 20 

### environmental crisis. Cut carbon emissions even 21 

### further in the federal plan. 2236

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### It is also of the utmost importance that 1 

### the federal plan grants protection to those in 2 

### low-income, minority, and indigenous communities. 3 

### The people within these underserved demographics 4 

### have suffered the worst from industrial pollution 5 

### and will be hit the hardest by the trials of 6 

### climate change. We must act in favor of life 7 

### while we can still have an impact. 8 

### Thank you for the opportunity to speak. 9 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you so much for being 10 

### with us this morning. 11 

### Mr. Pang? 12 

### MR. PANG: Hi. My name is Kevin Pang. 13 

### I'm a senior at the University of Pittsburgh, 14 

### studying economics and philosophy. 15 

### I'm here to say today that it is 16 

### imperative that the EPA enforce a federal 17 

### implementation plan for states that do not follow 18 

### through and meet standards set forth by the Clean 19

### Air Act. 20 

### At the University of Pittsburgh, I am an 21 

### organizer with the Fossil-Free Pitt Coalition, 2237

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### and we are calling on the university to divest 1 

### from the fossil fuel industry. We see that 2 

### climate change is not -- no longer just a 3 

### national public health issue, but it's a 4 

### catastrophe, honestly. It's a catastrophe that 5 

### we're seeing across the globe, and I often hear 6 

### cited that 2 degrees that we must stay under 7 

### that's often cited by the United Nations and 8 

### other sources, and they say anything beyond that 9 

### is catastrophic. 10 

### And I disagree. I think we are seeing 11 

### catastrophes across the globe today. I think for 12 

### those affected by Hurricane Sandy, those 13 

### catastrophic, I see those that are on the front 14 

### lines. The effects of climate change that we are 15 

### seeing today are catastrophic. 16 

### And so, as a student, I've kind of been 17 

### trying to figure out my role in this. I feel 18 

### like we all play a role in this battle for not 19 

### just climate justice, but social justice and 20 

### human rights. And so as a student, I am trying 21 

### to leverage my power to -- as a member of the 2238

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### institution of the University of Pittsburgh to 1 

### draw on their larger institutional power and 2 

### really take a stance against the fossil fuel 3 

### industry and really push forward the effort to 4 

### stigmatize the fossil fuel industry because we 5 

### recognize that is not sustainable. 6 

### And so to me, the role that EPA plays is 7 

### obviously on a much larger scale, and I think 8 

### it's imperative that we really push, keep pushing 9 

### forward what is possible in terms of how we can 10 

### confront climate change right now. 11 

### The time for talking about -- and 12 

### debating about whether climate change is real has 13 

### long past, and it's really urgent that we take 14 

### action now. So I'm glad to see the Clean Power 15 

### Plan put forward, and I hope that this is just 16 

### the beginning. 17 

### Similarly, with our divestment campaign, 18 

### I hope this is just the beginning of students 19 

### feeling empowered to take a stance against 20 

### climate change, and I hope that the EPA will 21 

### continue to push forward measures that can 2239

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### continue to challenge what is the current norm. 1 

### Thank you for speaking -- thank you for 2 

### giving me the opportunity to speak. 3 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir, for being 4 

### here. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate you joining 5 

### us today. 6 

### MS. NEFFSHADE: Thank you. 7


### MR. PANG: Thanks. 8 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 9 

### I see no other speakers. No? Okay. We 10 

### will take a short recess. Thank you. 11 

### [Recess taken from 10:44 to 10:47 a.m.] 12 

### MR. KOERBER: It's about 10:47. We will 13 

### reopen the session, and our next speaker will be 14


### Mr. Court Gould. 15 

### MR. GOULD: Great. Thank you. 16 

### MR. KOERBER: Yes. Thank you, sir. 17 

### MR. GOULD: I think I recognize you here 18 

### from last summer, perhaps. 19 

### MR. KOERBER: Yes. Yes, yes. 20 

### MR. GOULD: Welcome back to Pittsburgh. 21 

### MR. KOERBER: Well, thank you. It's 2240

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### certainly a pleasure to be here. 1 

### MR. GOULD: Thanks very much. 2 

### MR. KOERBER: So I'm with EPA, and we 3 

### have other EPA folks here on the panel to listen 4 

### to your testimony today. We have a court 5 

### reporter taking your notes -- taking notes on 6 

### your talks today. 7


### MR. GOULD: Great. 8 

### MR. KOERBER: Whenever you're ready, sir. 9 

### MR. GOULD: Super. My name is Court 10 

### Gould, C-o-u-r-t, G-o-u-l-d. I'm here 11 

### representing the non-profit organization called 12 

### Sustainable Pittsburgh. I'm the executive 13 

### director. We've been in existence since 1998. 14 

### Our mission is to accelerate the policy and the 15 

### practice of sustainability in generally the 16 

### 10-county region of Southwestern Pennsylvania. 17 

### I thank you for your advancing this 18 

### opportunity for the public to provide input to 19 

### the Clean Power Plan. It's an extraordinarily 20 

### profound initiative of the federal government to 21 

### provide opportunity for our states around the 2241

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### country to accelerate the transition to a 1 

### cleaner, lower carbon economy. 2 

### I've got lengthy comments, but in the 3 

### interest of boiling it down to the very basics, I 4 

### think there's maybe four key points overall. 5 

### That the Clean Power Plan indeed gives the states 6 

### the flexibility to customize their plans to 7 

### reduce carbon pollution in cost-effective ways 8 

### that both protect public health, modernize their 9 

### energy systems, and lead to clean energy 10 

### development, while creating jobs and hastening 11 

### really a whole new sector of innovation for the 12 

### cleaner, lower carbon economy. 13 

### It's really great that in providing the 14 

### flexibility, EPA is also providing a model and 15 

### assistance to help states that might decide to 16 

### forego, creating their individual plans to meet 17 

### the carbon reduction targets of the Clean Power 18 

### Plan, but nevertheless states would be well 19 

### advised to seize the opportunity to create their 20 

### own plans to tailor what makes the most sense for 21 

### their jurisdictions to reduce dangerous carbon 2242

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### pollution and to help mitigate climate change in 1 

### the most cost-effective ways and innovate toward 2 

### lower carbon economy. 3 

### While the Clean Power Plan apparently 4 

### doesn't specifically list demand-side energy 5 

### efficiency as a building block among the methods 6 

### for emission reduction, you all, EPA, as well as 7 

### our organization, Sustainable Pittsburgh, 8 

### recognize that energy efficiency needs to play a 9 

### very prominent role as a proven strategy that 10 

### states can use to reduce energy, cut emissions, 11 

### and boost the economy. 12 

### Energy efficiency represents the 13 

### cleanest, lowest cost, and fastest method of 14 

### emissions reduction. For these reasons, 15 

### Sustainable Pittsburgh urge states to adopt the 16 

### benefits of the Clean Power Plan's smart Clean 17 

### Energy Incentive Program, CEIP. As you know, 18 

### this is a voluntary matching-fund program that 19 

### states can use to incentivize early investment in 20 

### eligible renewable energy as well as demand-side 21 

### energy efficiency projects that generate 2243

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### carbon-free energy or reduce and use energy 1 

### demand, particularly with extra incentive for 2 

### that which benefits low-income communities. 3 

### Other specific recommendations with 4 

### regard to CEIP is that it should accept any 5 

### projects that demonstrate energy savings through 6 

### avoided usage. Establishment of such 7 

### energy-efficiency programs, as Act 129 in 8 

### Pennsylvania, have standard protocols for project 9 

### eligibility, measurement and verification. CEIP 10 

### can easily adopt existing frameworks, such as 11 

### this one here in Pennsylvania and many more 12 

### around other states around the country whose 13 

### guidelines are familiar to utility companies and 14 

### customer service providers across many states. 15 

### Many states have technical reference 16 

### manuals that are similar, which would allow for 17 

### easy incorporation of the same such guidelines 18 

### into their federal implementation plans. 19 

### The CEIP should encourage solar 20 

### photovoltaic arrays on schools, municipal 21 

### buildings, and low-income affordable housing 2244

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### projects, and there are several options available 1 

### to assist with the cost of renewable 2 

### developments. State funding criteria could be 3 

### adjusted to include energy efficiency or 4 

### renewable generation metrics, perhaps using 5 

### carbon emissions as a metric. Large-scale solar 6 

### arrays could be developed in conjunction with 7 

### utility companies as part of a power purchase 8 

### agreement, or low-income community members could 9 

### invest in these projects as owners. 10 

### I think I'm out of time. I'll submit 11 

### this written testimony, if I may, which has a 12 

### couple more specific suggestions around CEIP. 13


### MR. KOERBER: Feel free to take another 14 

### minute or two, given the lack of other registered 15 

### speakers behind you. 16 

### MR. GOULD: Okay. The line is not too 17 

### long. 18 

### [Laughter.] 19 

### MR. GOULD: Sorry to just be reading 20 

### this. 21 

### While federal program money cannot be 2245

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### applied to CEIP, state dollars can be applied to 1 

### CEIP participation. Recommend that states should 2 

### be encouraged to leverage existing state-run 3 

### programs such, again, as people's Act 129, 4 

### low-income usage reduction programs, and 5 

### weatherization assistance programs. 6 

### Energy savings recognized under these 7 

### programs could be applied to the CPP reduction 8 

### target. Compliance will be made easier if CEIP 9 

### guidelines mirror those already in existence 10 

### under these state programs. 11 

### And lastly, ultimately, state plans would 12 

### be well advised to include language stating 13 

### intention to participate in CEIP. The details of 14 

### the plan should include room for both energy 15 

### efficiency and renewable energy, such as wind and 16 

### solar. We encourage a broad definition of energy 17 

### efficiency using language that can allow room for 18 

### a distributed generation and demands response as 19


### well. 20 

### Thanks very much. I appreciate your time 21 

### to allow the public to voice its studied inputs. 2246

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you so much. 1 

### Give me 30 seconds on Act 129. I'm not 2 

### familiar with the details of it. 3 

### MR. GOULD: Act 129 is the Pennsylvania 4 

### Utility Commission's incentive program for 5 

### utilities across the Commonwealth to work with 6 

### their consumers to reduce energy demand and 7 

### consumption, so as to benefit everybody by 8 

### forestalling or avoiding the exorbitant cost of 9 

### building new power generation plants to meet 10 

### growing demand. 11 

### It's been tremendously effective across 12 

### the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania in inducing 13 

### utilities to work with their customers to begin 14 

### reducing overall demand on the grid, which also 15 

### helps with resiliency in a state where we have 16 

### wild climate swings and heavy weather that has 17


### caused blackouts here and there. 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Very good. Thank you so 19 

### much, sir. 20 

### MR. GOULD: Thank you. 21 

### MR. KOERBER: Appreciate you being here. 2247

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### MR. GOULD: Where would I turn this in? 1 

### MR. KOERBER: You can drop it off with 2 

### our court reporter. 3 

### MR. GOULD: Great. Thank you. 4 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 5 

### I would next like to call Jody Handley. 6 

### Good morning, Ms. Handley. Thank you for 7 

### being with us today. 8 

### MS. HANDLEY: Good morning. Thanks for 9 

### being here. My name is Jody Handley, J-o-d-y, 10 

### H-a-n-d-l-e-y. 11


### I have to confess I wasn't sure what the 12 

### context with the audience would be, and the 13 

### remarks I so carefully prepared are probably not 14 

### appropriate, so I'm going to wing it a little 15 

### bit. 16 

### I'm actually here as a private citizen. 17 

### I moved to Pittsburgh 3 years ago from San 18 

### Francisco, and before that, I lived in New York 19 

### City, and before that, I lived in Greene County, 20 

### which is southwest of here, and it's deep, deep 21 

### in Coal Country. 2248

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### My mom grew up in Braddock, which you've 1 

### probably heard about from time to time. It's in 2 

### the shadow of the Edgar Thomson Works. She used 3 

### to talk about how she would wipe soot from her 4 

### face when she would get to school in the morning. 5 

### And my dad actually grew up downriver in McKees 6 

### Rocks, which is within blowing distance of 7 

### Shenango. 8 

### So while this isn't specifically -- my 9 

### story is not specifically regarding climate, I'm 10 

### sure that you've heard other folks talking about 11 

### the serious quality of life problem in Pittsburgh 12 

### right now, and obviously, we all know that that 13 

### affects the climate as well with the power plants 14 

### and everything. 15 

### So, when I moved back here, I thought 16 

### that it was going to be great, and it has been 17 

### mostly, but I find myself waking up at 2:30 in 18 

### the morning to close the windows because the 19 

### smell of sulfur and benzene is so overpowering. 20 

### I made enough complaints to the ACHD over 21 

### time that I got some calls back, and it turns out 2249

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### that it's coming from the Clairton Coke Works. 1 

### And I began getting involved with ACCAN, which is 2 

### a group here, Allegheny County Clean Air, and 3 

### they are mostly based around Ben Avon, which is 4 

### where Shenango is. 5 

### If it's that bad where I live, where I'm 6 

### waking up in the middle of the night to close my 7 

### windows -- and I am 12 miles upriver from 8 

### Clairton -- the people who live there are in a 9 

### depressed area. They're overwhelmingly, 10 

### probably, impoverished and minority, and their 11 

### air is so much worse than mine is because I have 12 

### instances where it's bad. They're living in it 13 

### all the time. 14 

### But my frustration has been when I've 15 

### been going to the Allegheny County Health 16 

### Department, has been -- I've noticed them 17 

### changing over the last year, but generally, what 18 

### I hear from them is we need more data. We don't 19 

### have enough, basically because when they go -- 20 

### when anybody tries to bring a suit against any of 21 

### the coke plants or power plants or anyone that's 2250

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### creating this huge pollution problem in 1 

### Southwestern Pennsylvania, they're basically 2 

### told, "Well, you can't really prove it's them." 3 

### There's kind of a "blame it on the dog" kind of 4 

### thing going around, and it's very frustrating 5 

### because everybody kind of knows where it's coming 6 

### from, but nobody can prove it. And that's 7 

### basically what's being told. 8 

### And the ACHD is also just kind of 9 

### plotting toward meeting federal standards, and 10 

### the federal standards right now are not nearly as 11 

### high as I think a lot of us really believe that 12 

### they should be. So it's very frustrating. 13 

### And my call to action that I often make 14 

### is not necessarily telling my personal story, 15 

### which is probably the same personal story you 16 

### hear from a lot of other people about the bad 17 

### smells and the terrible mornings when you try to 18 

### walk your kid to work -- or walk your kid to 19 

### school, and I worry for her health. Everybody 20 

### tells those stories. 21 

### Generally, I try to make a call to action 2251

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### to get people to just report it because so many 1 

### people don't -- either they don't believe that 2 

### it's going to make a difference or they don't 3 

### even know how. I don't necessarily have to ask 4 

### you guys to report it. 5 

### But one of the things that I do want to 6 

### also mention is that somebody has come to me 7 

### recently and said, "Do you ever feel like you're 8 

### living in a Twilight Zone?" and I do. You start 9 

### wondering about your own sanity because I'll talk 10 

### to people and say, "Can you believe how bad the 11 

### air was last night or this morning?" and -- "What 12 

### do you mean?" Like, they don't -- they either 13 

### have lived here so long that they don't notice 14 

### it, or they just think that's the way a city 15 

### smells. It's depressing. 16 

### And there's also a -- I'm sorry. Am I 17 

### running over time right now? How am I for time. 18


### MR. KOERBER: No. Feel free. 19 

### MS. HANDLEY: Okay. I know that there's 20 

### a big backup here. 21 

### [Laughter.] 2252

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### MR. KOERBER: Go on. 1 

### MS. HANDLEY: I'll talk your ear off all 2 

### day. 3 

### There's also something that we're -- I'm 4 

### sure that you already know about this. There's 5 

### deeply enculturated industry in Pittsburgh, and 6 

### it is part of the culture. Our team's name is 7 

### the Steelers, and I grew up, as I said, in Coal 8 

### Country. And any threat to the idea of industry 9 

### or jobs that may or may not exist is immediately 10 

### met with a kneejerk reaction, even though there's 11 

### actually a lot fewer jobs that are being affected 12 

### than there are people. 13 

### And this is also part of my call to -- 14 

### and I really appreciate that you all came here -- 15 

### you selected Pittsburgh as one of the cities -- 16 

### to try to convince people that actually there is 17 

### a problem. I mean, we don't even -- we haven't 18 

### necessarily made that first step yet, and we're 19 

### getting there. 20 

### I've seen a lot of improvements with the 21

### ACHD. Finally, in the last, I think, 6 months or 2253

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### so, there's a link on their site specifically for 1 

### air quality complaints, which is very exciting. 2 

### That used to be just one form for complaints all 3 

### over, and now they're actually narrowing it down 4 

### to air quality complaints. And the rhetoric in 5 

### the meetings has changed a little bit to kind of 6 

### support less about "Well, we're trying to get 7 

### the" -- you know, "We're way better than we used 8 

### to be," and now actually saying, "Okay. Well, we 9 

### actually have to get not better than we used to 10 

### be but good," and that's one of the lines that I 11 

### often give when I'm talking with people is that 12 

### better isn't good. 13 

### I've heard people in Pittsburgh say, 14 

### "We're a lot better than we were in the '50s," 15 

### which -- yay. We're not, you know, keeping the 16 

### lights on in the daytime. 17 

### I heard somebody on the radio defending 18 

### how great Pittsburgh was, the air quality, by 19 

### comparing us to Beijing, and people used to say 20 

### Pittsburgh in the '50s and '40s was hell with the 21 

### lid off. So our basis for comparison right now 2254

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### is Beijing and hell, which I don't think is 1 

### really that great. 2 

### As the risk of repeating myself, I'm 3 

### going to go ahead and close out there. Do you 4 

### have any questions, anything else that I can 5


### elaborate on? 6 

### MR. KOERBER: No. I do want to thank you 7 

### for being here today. I mean, part of us coming 8 

### to Pittsburgh is to hear from the local citizens 9 

### and various community groups. We view the Clean 10 

### Power Plan as yet another opportunity for states 11 

### to work with communities in developing clean air 12 

### plans, specifically for climate, but we recognize 13 

### the other co-benefits that the Clean Power Plan 14 

### will afford. 15 

### So hearing from communities, one thing 16


### we've asked states to do under the Clean Power 17 

### Plan is to work with local community groups. So 18 

### your being here, you participating, the other 19 

### people who have been here this morning, we've 20 

### heard over the past day and a half, we really 21 

### appreciate everybody attending and offering their 2255

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### thoughts and ideas for us, so thank you for being 1


### here. 2 

### MS. HANDLEY: I'm glad to be here. Is 3 

### there anything else that I can do? 4 

### [Laughter.] 5 

### MR. KOERBER: I'm good here, unless the 6 

### other panelists have questions. 7 

### [No audible response.] 8 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 9 

### MS. HANDLEY: Thank you very much. 10 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 11 

### MS. HANDLEY: Have a great day. 12 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 13 

### Jody Handley, if you're ready, we're 14 

### ready. 15


### MS. HANDLEY: That was me. 16 

### MR. KOERBER: Oh, I'm sorry. 17 

### Eric Casteel. 18 

### MR. CASTEEL: Good morning. 19 

### MR. KOERBER: Good morning. 20 

### MR. CASTEEL: My name is Eric Casteel, 21 

### and I appreciate the opportunity to be able to 2256

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### speak here. My last name is spelled 1 

### C-a-s-t-e-e-l, just like "ca-steel." We're in 2 

### the Steel City, so that helps. 3 

### I'm here as a businessman. I'm also here 4 

### as an advocate for clean power, and I'm also here 5 

### as an owner of a clean power energy system on my 6 

### home. I have a solar system on my home, and I am 7 

### adding wind power in the very near future. 8 

### My business, I'm in an area here in the 9 

### heart of Coal and Gas Country. I'm a 10 

### manufacturer of renewable energy products. We 11 

### manufacture a mobile/towable generator that runs 12 

### off of solar and wind power. We also do solar 13 

### panel racking systems, and we also have an 14 

### off-grid solar power product, and we also 15 

### manufacture battery cabinets. So we are well 16 

### positioned to be able to talk intelligently about 17 

### this. 18 

### I've been dealing with the electric power 19 

### industry for over 20 years. I've operated with 20 

### nuclear power plants. I've operated with control 21 

### systems for fossil fuel power plants and solar, 2257

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### wind, hydro, geothermal, and biomass. 1 

### Our business focus is not only here in 2 

### Pennsylvania, but all across the United States, 3 

### and we're now starting to make inroads into 4 

### Canada and in Mexico for our -- what we call our 5 

### "development business." We actually design and 6 

### install solar and wind systems, more based on 7 

### commercial industrial community and utility 8


### scale. 9 

### Last year, after attending some -- well, 10 

### actually, in the past 2 years, after attending 11 

### some of the solar and wind conferences here in 12 

### the U.S., it's become very apparent that energy 13 

### storage is becoming a critical component of 14 

### renewable energy and energy in general and would 15 

### go a long way to help some of our clean power 16 

### issues. 17 

### We know that wind can operate 24 hours a 18 

### day, but solar, we're only going to get about -- 19 

### in this area, we'll get 14 hours a day during the 20 

### summer and about 8 hours a day in the wintertime. 21 

### So we don't have -- we can't take advantage of 2258

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### that power 24 hours a day, but with energy 1 

### storage, we can. It can help offset many of the 2 

### generating issues we deal with today in our 3 

### fossil fuel power plants. 4 

### With energy storage, because we do 5 

### projects all across the United States, many parts 6 

### of the country, I see on customers' electric 7 

### bills where they have -- they're being charged 8 

### for losses on the transmission lines as well as 9 

### losses on the distribution lines. And what that 10 

### means is that we've built a grid infrastructure 11 

### and a system that's designed to push power out 12 

### for long distances, but it's not very efficient. 13 

### So my point of this is we need more distributed 14 

### energy. We need to have things here locally that 15 

### can help. 16 

### One of the things we work with businesses 17 

### on that deal with demand charges and deal with 18 

### outages during the core part of their operations 19 

### is providing energy storage, is providing demand 20 

### response capabilities, and the more that we can 21 

### do that with clean power, the better off we're 2259

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### going to be. 1 

### Also coming from -- I'm a Southwestern 2 

### Pennsylvania native. I grew up here in Coal 3 

### Country, Coal and Gas Country, and I still 4 

### believe that our direction is we need to move 5 

### away from those fuels. There's a right place and 6 

### time for them and a balanced way to go about it. 7 

### The point I'm bringing that up, it has to deal 8 

### with the carbon credits. 9 

### Our utility companies have had carbon 10 

### credits for a number of years, and they use those 11 

### to help -- to help stay compliant with the 12 

### alternative energy portfolio standards of the 13 

### states. Well, I applaud that those are in there 14 

### and understand the need for those to be there, so 15 

### that our utility companies can continue to 16 

### operate, and we as ratepayers are not going to be 17 

### penalized for the need for them to go to clean 18 

### power. But the potential exists that it will 19 

### cause the utility companies to procrastinate, and 20 

### the utility companies aren't necessarily the best 21 

### ones to be implementing this. Independent power 2260

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### products that build wind farms and solar projects 1 

### and even us as individual homeowners, as we start 2 

### to add solar and wind power to our homes and add 3 

### more distributed energy, it's going to be -- it's 4 

### going to take -- have less impact on our grid. 5 

### We're dealing with, in some cases, grid 6 

### infrastructure that's been in place for 70 to 80 7 

### years and really needs to be updated in order to 8 

### handle distributed technology or distributed 9 

### electric generation. So that's a problem that 10 

### also needs to be looked at for this as part of 11 

### our clean energy program. 12 

### So, in closing, I'd like to see -- I 13 

### applaud what you're doing, and I would like to 14 

### see more things along the lines of distributed 15 

### generation. 16 

### And I also failed to mentioned energy 17 

### efficiency. We as homeowners, businesses, we 18 

### need to look at being more energy efficient. I'm 19 

### working on projects today in Africa, where we're 20 

### being asked to come in, and today they run off of 21 

### -- their cell towers run off of diesel 2261

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### generators, 24 hours a day, because they don't 1 

### have the infrastructure. We're looking at going 2 

### in and replacing those with solar systems. Where 3 

### we have space, we can completely eliminate the 4 

### generator. Where we don't have space, we can 5 

### significantly reduce the diesel generator times. 6


### So we need to take a lesson and learn 7 

### from it. We've kind of gotten spoiled. We have 8 

### electricity at our disposal, anytime, so we're 9 

### not necessarily efficient with everything we do 10 

### at our homes and our businesses. So a focus on 11 

### energy efficiency is also needed. 12 

### Do you have any questions for me? 13 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir, for being 14 

### here today. 15 

### I do, actually. Approximately, how many 16 

### people does your company employ, and where have 17 

### most of your workers come? Have they been coming 18 

### from other industries, or where do you get most 19 

### of your workers? 20 

### MR. CASTEEL: Well, we have a lot of 21 

### transitioning employees, part-time -- or 2262

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### employees that come and go because of our 1 

### projects. 2 

### In our manufacturing business, we have 3 

### four people. Our model has been -- our core 4 

### focus is engineering. We're very good at 5 

### designing and inventing products. We're not 6 

### necessarily great at the manufacturing process of 7 

### putting things together. So we have contract 8


### manufacturers that do the work for us. 9 

### So in the contract manufacture, we've 10 

### probably added anywhere from 15 to 20 people over 11 

### the last 2 years for our products, and if we get 12 

### the contracts we're working on in Africa right 13 

### now, we're going to be probably doubling that 14 

### over the next year because of those 15 

### opportunities. 16 

### MR. KOERBER: Very good. Thank you, sir. 17 

### MR. CASTEEL: Thank you. 18 

### MR. KOERBER: Anybody else, questions? 19 

### [No audible response.] 20


### MR. KOERBER: No? 21 

### Thank you for being with us. 2263

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Next, I'd like to call Michael Barry. 1 

### Good morning, Mr. Barry. Thank you for 2 

### being here today. 3 

### MR. BARRY: Good morning. My name is 4 

### Mike Barry, B-a-r-r-y, and thanks for having this 5 

### event here, so we can talk about the Clean Power 6


### Plan. 7 

### I'm here in three capacities: as a 8 

### former worker in the oil and gas industry for 14 9 

### years; as the founder of a renewable energy 10 

### startup company, Solar Land Solutions. I'm 11 

### actually participating in the DOE SunShot 12 

### Catalyst program, and I will be presenting 13 

### minimally viable product on December 10th at the 14 

### Franklin Institute in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, 15 

### hopefully get another round of funding for the 16 

### product. I'm also here as a private citizen 17 

### concerned about the environment. 18 

### I'll give you a little bit of background 19 

### on my company. We're a renewable energy land 20 

### service company, so what we do is early-stage 21 

### land acquisition, siting, due diligence for solar 2264

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### projects, mainly utility community and commercial 1 

### solar projects. 2 

### Obviously, I don't do much work in 3 

### Pennsylvania because I believe we only get .5 4 

### percent -- .5 of 1 percent of our energy from 5 

### solar here in Pennsylvania. That's according to 6 

### the EIA, and I don't know how accurate their 7 

### figures are. I've heard people complain about 8 

### some of their numbers. 9 

### Pennsylvania set an alternative energy 10 

### portfolio standard of 18 percent by 2021. Right 11 

### now, we're currently at 4 percent. So that means 12 

### we have a long way to go in 6 years. 13 

### Realistically, it's probably not going to happen 14 

### through building out new systems. Just think 15 

### about how big of a gap that is. 16 

### We got to 4 percent over 15 years, 17 

### something like that, so that's a lot to do in 6 18



### years. 19 

### I feel like I'm kind of uniquely 20 

### positioned to comment on the Clean Power Plan 21 

### because I did work in oil and gas for a long 2265

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### time. I grew up in South Louisiana, which is a 1 

### very heavy oil and gas area. 2 

### I'll tell you a little bit about the 3 

### legacy of oil and gas in my state. Everyone 4 

### knows about the great BP Gulf spill and how that 5 

### really helped us out. So not only did we lose 6 

### revenue from traditional forms of income, such as 7 

### fishing, we also lost potential ecotourism. 8 

### There's still cleanup issues going on. There's 9 

### still issues in the courthouses going on. 10 

### Hundreds of miles of unique wetland habitat were 11 

### destroyed by dredging in Louisiana. 12 

### If you look at maps over the time, over 13 

### the last hundred years, you can see just the 14 

### impact of just unmitigated, you know, destruction 15 

### of wetlands, and it's really an ecosystem that's 16 

### not going to come back. 17 

### There's tons of refineries, cancer 18 

### clusters, and all these great oil and gas jobs 19 

### are here today and gone tomorrow. So that's the 20 

### legacy of oil and gas in my state where I grew 21



### up. 2266

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### I've been a resident of PA for 7 years, 1 

### and I think right now I'd like to tell you the 2 

### tale of two states, and I want to talk about New 3 

### York and Pennsylvania. 4 

### What's going on in New York is really 5 

### exciting, the REV program, where they're doing 6 

### what Eric Casteel, who I know outside of this 7 

### room, has talked about, where they're reexamining 8 

### their grid. They are implementing distributed -- 9 

### plans for distributed energy generation plus 10 

### storage, so they're making a smart grid. They're 11 

### rolling out incentives to develop community solar 12 

### projects to help provide renewable energy to 13 

### people that are not necessarily middle class, but 14


### should have access to that as well. 15 

### If you drive from here to Buffalo, you're 16 

### going to see a ton of micro wind installations 17 

### all along the Interstate. Solar City is building 18 

### a solar panel manufacturing facility in Buffalo, 19 

### and in general, it's creating a lot of jobs and 20 

### creating a lot of opportunities in New York. 21 

### Let's talk about what you're seeing in 2267

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Pennsylvania, the legacy of coal mining in this 1 

### state, acid mine runoff. Go drive 60 miles west 2 

### of here. Ride your bike along the Ghost Town 3 

### Trail. You're going to see a big orange creek. 4 

### That's not natural. There's nothing living in 5 

### that creek. That's the legacy of coal mining in 6 

### this state. 7 

### Right now, jobs are being slashed in the 8 

### oil and gas industry. The company that I last 9 

### worked for in oil and gas, Noble Energy, just 10 

### laid off 45 people in their Marcellus shale 11 

### business unit this past Tuesday. 12 

### There are many, many other layoffs and 13 

### bankruptcies going on right now. In the state of 14 

### Pennsylvania, there are at least 200,000 15 

### abandoned and orphaned oil and gas wells. There 16 

### may be up to 500,000. No one really knows 17 

### because the department that oversees that is 18 

### underfunded. Those wells, according to a study 19 

### done by Princeton University, Mary Kang, leaked 4 20 

### to 7 percent of the -- this is complicated. 21 

### Current total anthropogenic methane emissions in 2268

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### this state, 4 to 7 percent from abandoned wells. 1


### I've been out there and seen these wells 2 

### in person as a former employee of the oil and gas 3 

### industry. 4 

### So going a little bit further out, let's 5 

### talk about the legacy of coal mining in West 6 

### Virginia with mountaintop removal. These 7 

### ecosystems aren't coming back. It's a one-time 8 

### use for a renewable energy -- or for a 9 

### traditional form of energy. You clear-cut. You 10 

### get rid of the mountain. There's nothing left. 11 

### You use the coal. There's nothing left. 12 

### Sorry. That's my time. 13 

### I just want to end with one quite from 14 

### William Gibson, an author. 15 

### MR. KOERBER: Feel free to continue, sir. 16 

### MR. BARRY: Okay. The future is already 17 

### here. It's just not very evenly distributed, 18 

### okay? And what I mean by that is countries like 19 

### Costa Rica are already at a 100 percent renewable 20 

### energy standard. Denmark has met this year 21 

### national demands on certain days by just wind 2269

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### production alone. Germany is about 31 percent 1 

### net electric consumption from solar. California 2 

### just set out a renewable energy portfolio 3 

### standard of 50 percent. 4 

### I was just on the phone with someone at 5 

### ConnEdison last week -- or sorry -- this week, 6 

### and it looks like New York is going to set a 50 7 

### percent renewable energy portfolio standard. 8 

### That's exciting. P&E needs to catch up. We need 9 

### more of it here. We've got a long way to go. 10 

### And thank you for your time. 11 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you so much, sir, for 12 

### being here today. Appreciate it. 13 

### MR. BARRY: All right. Any questions or 14 

### anything? 15 

### MR. KOERBER: I don't. Thank you. 16 

### MR. BARRY: All right. Thanks. 17 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 18 

### Next, I'd like to call Cassi Steenblok. 19 

### Good morning, Ms. Steenblok. Thank you 20 

### for being here today. 21 

### MS. STEENBLOK: Good morning. Thank you 2270

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### for having me. My name is Cassi Steenblok, 1 

### C-a-s-s-I, S-t-e-e-n-b-l-o-k. 2 

### I'm here as a resident of Pittsburgh, but 3 

### I'm also here today as program organizer for 4 

### Clean Water Action, representing more than 35,000 5 

### members in Western Pennsylvania. 6 

### Clean Water Action works with diverse 7 

### people and groups or protect our environment, 8 

### health, economic well-being, and community 9 

### quality of life. We make democracy work for all. 10 

### Each year, our members vote on the 11 

### issues. They want us to prioritize the issues 12 

### that they want us to work on in that upcoming 13 

### year. For the past 5 years, one of the highest 14 

### priorities for our members has been promoting 15 

### clean renewable energy and combatting climate 16 

### change. 17 

### In the past few years, that priority has 18 

### been climbing. It's now the second most voted on 19 

### priority for our members. 20 

### In Clean Water Action, we know that 21 

### climate change presents a clear and present 2271

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### danger to human health and the environment. Here 1 

### in Western Pennsylvania, we have some of the 2 

### worst air quality in the country, landing 3 

### ourselves on the top 10 worst lists year after 4 

### year. Emissions from coal-fired power plants, 5 

### like the Cheswick Power Station, send toxic 6 

### chemicals and soot into our air that are directly 7 

### linked to asthma, heart disease, and cancer. 8 

### Recent studies have shown that here in 9 

### Western Pennsylvania, we rank in some of the 10 

### worst places to live if you are suffering from 11 

### asthma, and we have cancer rates twice the 12 

### national average. This is no surprise if you 13 

### talk to residents living in these affected 14 

### communities. They either suffer from asthma or 15 

### cancer themselves or have family members and 16 

### friends who do. It's a problem that directly 17 

### affects every single person here in the region. 18 

### To combat this problem, Clean Water 19

### Action and our canvass has worked on multiple 20 

### campaigns over the past few years that would work 21 

### to reduce emissions from coal-fired power plants, 2272

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### ensuring that toxic chemicals are not emitted 1 

### into our water or air. 2


### We collected more than a thousand letters 3 

### and postcards from members on this very campaign. 4 

### Our most recent campaign from this summer 5 

### was to urge the state of Pennsylvania to 6 

### prioritize clean energy programs in their budget, 7 

### such as wind and solar power, to move away from 8 

### our dependence on fossil fuels. That is why we 9 

### support the Clean Power Plan and are so thankful 10 

### to the EPA on working on affluent limits. This 11 

### plan provides clear standards of performance for 12 

### limiting carbon pollution and allows flexibility 13 

### for the states to achieve these standards. 14 

### Under the current plan, states will be 15 

### able to design a cost effective way to reduce 16 

### carbon pollution, modernize their energy systems, 17 

### and create jobs in the clean energy sector. This 18 

### is something that Pennsylvania desperately needs, 19 

### as we heard from our last speaker. We're 20 

### woefully behind in clean energy. 21 

### We also need a federal plan that puts 2273

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### protections in place swiftly when a state 1 

### declines to protect its citizens from the 2 

### extensive carbon pollution from its smokestacks. 3 

### Climate safeguards cannot wait, and neither can 4 

### this Clean Power Plan. 5 

### Our members are Clean Water Action 6 

### recognize that this is a common-sense step to 7 

### address the overwhelming need to combat climate 8 

### change. We need to act, and we need to act fast. 9 

### Finalize these limits to protect our environment, 10 

### our public health, and our future. 11 

### Thank you. 12 

### MR. KOERBER: Thank you so much for being 13 

### here today. 14 

### MS. STEENBLOK: Thank you. 15 

### MR. KOERBER: I see no other speakers -- 16 

### oh, yes, we do. Come on down. 17 

### Good morning. I don't have your name 18 

### here. So if you could state your name and spell 19 

### it for the record, I would appreciate it. 20 

### MS. LUISI: Sure. My name is Marian 21 

### Luisi, M-a-r-i-a-n. Luisi is L-u-i-s-i. 2274

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### I'm a citizen of Pittsburgh, belong to 1 

### Green for All, and just as a citizen, I wanted to 2 

### express my concern that although the CPP does 3 

### mandate that we reduce our carbon energy 4 

### emissions by 37 percent, I believe, for our 5 

### state, I don't believe that that can efficiently 6 

### be done by just reducing or increasing the 7 

### efficiency of our gas and oil output. 8 

### I wanted to state my concern and advocate 9 

### that we make investments in renewable clean 10 

### energy, wind and solar, that there are some 11 

### numerable benefits, I mean, in terms of 12 

### health-reducing, socioeconomic issues allowing 13 

### those in poverty to have better access to jobs 14 

### because the jobs in renewable and clean energy 15 

### from what I have been reading and have statistics 16 

### for require less education and pay above the 17 

### median average of jobs that are in the market 18



### now. 19 

### Solar energy has brought 20 percent 20 

### increase in job availability nationwide, and over 21 

### the past 2 years, they have grown nearly 10 times 2275

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### faster than jobs in the rest of the economy. 1 

### Clean energy investments create three 2 

### times as many jobs as fossil fuel industries, and 3 

### the green jobs tend to pay more. That will allow 4 

### a recipe for escaping poverty for Hispanics and 5 

### minorities that are affected health-wise, as well 6 

### as economically. 7 

### Renewable energy sources are increasingly 8 

### competitive. Everybody used to say they were 9 

### very expensive to produce and create, and they 10 

### are becoming more competitive in terms of 11 

### comparison to fossil fuels on cost, and 12 

### installation capacity is growing. 13 

### Just last year, the number of people 14 

### working in solar surpassed the number of people 15 

### employed as coal miners. In fact, solar is 16 

### growing, as I said, 20 times faster than the 17 

### broader economy. 18 

### I think that it's time that we start 19 

### thinking long term and looking towards our future 20 

### for our grandchildren and their children, and gas 21 

### and oil isn't going to be available for us all 2276

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### the -- I mean, shale, it's a finite resource. 1 

### It's not renewable. So, at some point, we're 2 

### going to have to either do without electricity or 3 

### change the way we think and move away from the 4 

### status quo. 5 

### I just wanted to express my concern, and 6 

### I appreciate your time. Thank you. 7 

### MR. KOERBER: We appreciate you being 8 

### here today. Thank you. 9 

### Seeing no other speakers, we'll take a 10


### short recess. 11 

### [Recess taken from 11:25 a.m. to 12 12 

### noon.] 13 

### MR. KOERBER: The time is 12 p.m. I'll 14 

### reopen the session. We have no more registered 15 

### speakers, so we will adjourn for lunch. We will 16 

### get started again at 1 p.m. Thank you. 17 

### [Recess taken from 12 noon to 1 p.m.] 18 

### MR. CAMPBELL: I call the public hearing 19 

### back in session. Good afternoon. My name is 20 

### David Campbell with the U.S. Environmental 21 

### Protection Agency, and I am the Chair of today's 2277

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### public hearing on the proposed federal plan and 1 

### model rules for the Clean Power Plan for existing 2 

### power plants. Thank you for coming here today to 3 

### join us. 4 

### Joining me on the panel today are Emily 5 

### Linn and Robert Stoltzfus. 6 

### Fossil fuel-fired power plants are the 7 

### largest source of U.S. carbon dioxide emissions, 8 

### or carbon pollution, accounting for 31 percent of 9 

### U.S. total greenhouse gas emissions. Reducing 10 

### carbon pollution from power plants is an 11 

### essential step in lessening the impacts of 12 

### climate change and providing a more certain 13 

### future for our environment, our health, and 14 

### future generations. 15 

### We are here today to listen to your 16 

### comments on the EPA's proposed federal plan and 17 

### model rule to implement the Clean Power Plan for 18 

### existing power plants. 19 

### The proposed federal plans will achieve 20 

### the same levels of emissions performance as 21 

### required of state plans under the Clean Power 2278

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Plan. Federal plans will be finalized only for 1 

### those states with affected electric generating 2 

### units, or EGUs, that the EPA determines have 3 

### failed to submit an approvable 111(d) state plan 4 

### by the relevant deadline set in the emission 5 

### guidelines. 6 

### In those states where a federal plan may 7 

### be required, a final federal plan will implement 8 

### the same emission guidelines for affected power 9 

### plants outlined in the Clean Power Plan. It 10 

### would not require additional control requirements 11 

### or impose additional costs. 12 

### Even where a federal plan is put in place 13 

### for a particular state, that state will still be 14 

### able to submit a plan which, if approved, will 15 

### allow the state and its sources to exit the 16 

### federal plan. States may take delegation of 17 

### administrative aspects of the federal plan in 18 

### order to become the primary implementers or 19 

### submit partial state plans in order to take over 20 

### the implementation of a portion of a federal 21 

### plan. States operating under a federal plan may 2279

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### adopt complementary measures outside of the plan 1 

### to facilitate compliance and lower cost to the 2 

### benefit of power generators and consumers. 3 

### The proposal also includes as a model 4 

### rule for those states that are developing their 5 

### own state plans. The EPA intends to finalize 6 

### both the rate-based and mass-spaced model trading 7 

### rules in Summer 2016. 8 

### A state program that adheres to the model 9 

### trading rule provisions specified in the 10 

### rulemaking, when final, would be presumptively 11 

### approvable. There are stand-alone portions of 12 

### the model trading rules, such as the evaluation, 13 

### measurement, and verification procedures for 14 

### emission rate credits, or ERCs, that would be 15 

### approvable even if a state adopted an approach 16 

### that differs in other respects from the model 17


### rule. 18 

### In addition, the proposal contains a 19 

### finding that it is necessary or appropriate to 20 

### implement a Section 111(d) federal plan for the 21 

### affected electric generating units, located in 2280

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Indian Country. CO2

### emissions performance rates 1 

### for these facilities were finalized in the Clean 2


### Power Plan. 3 

### Information on how the EPA will reach out 4 

### to communities throughout the comment period in 5 

### an overview of the actions that EPA is taking to 6 

### ensure that vulnerable communities are not being 7 

### disproportionately impacted by this rulemaking. 8 

### If you would like more details on the 9 

### proposed rule, there are fact sheets available at 10 

### the registration desk. 11 

### Before we get started, I'd like to go 12 

### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 13 

### that will help make today's hearing run smoothly. 14 

### First, please be sure that you have 15 

### checked in at the registration desk, even if you 16 

### are not planning to speak today, and if you 17 

### signed up to speak online or by phone but haven't 18 

### told us that you are here, please step out to the 19 

### registration desk and let the EPA staff know that 20 

### you have arrived. 21 

### I will call speakers up. When your name 2281

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### is called, please come to the speakers table at 1 

### the front of the room. When I call you to speak, 2 

### please state your name and spell it for the court 3 

### reporter. Your comments will be transcribed and 4 

### included in the record of comments on the 5 

### proposed rule. 6 

### Each speaker will have 5 minutes to give 7 

### comments. We have a timer to help you know how 8 

### much time you have left to speak. When you see 9 

### the yellow folder, that means you have 1 minute 10 

### remaining. When you see the red folder, that's a 11 

### signal that you are at 5 minutes and it is time 12 

### to stop. When you have finished speaking, please 13 

### remain at the table until the person next to you 14 

### has completed his or her testimony. 15 

### We are here to listen to you today; 16 

### however, panel members may ask questions to 17 

### clarify your questions -- or comments. Excuse 18



### me. 19 

### I will then call up the next speaker and 20 

### so on. If you have brought a written copy of 21 

### your testimony, please give that to the staff at 2282

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### the registration desk before you leave today, if 1 

### you wish. 2 

### We will put any written comments 3 

### submitted today in the official docket for the 4 

### proposed rule. We also have comment cards 5 

### available at the registration desk if you would 6 

### like to submit additional written comments today. 7 

### If you want to comment in writing later, stop by 8 

### the materials table near the registration desk, 9 

### and pick up a copy of instructions for submitting 10 

### written comments. 11 

### Comments must be received by January 12 

### 21st, 2016. Let me assure you that EPA gives 13 

### just as much consideration to comments we receive 14 

### in writing as we do to comments we receive at 15 

### public hearings like this one. So if you have 16 

### more comments that you would like to provide the 17 

### EPA, please submit them by the comment period 18 

### deadline, January 21st, 2016. Your comments will 19 

### be reviewed. 20 

### If you have any questions during the day, 21 

### please see the staff at the registration desk, 2283

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### and someone will assist you. 1 

### Thank you again for taking the time today 2 

### to share your comments on the EPA's proposal. 3 

### Let's begin. 4 

### I would like to call Will Bittinger to 5 

### testify. Yep. Again, please state your name, 6 

### and spell it for the court reporter. 7 

### MR. BITTINGER: Hi. Good afternoon. My 8 

### name is Will Bittinger, W-i-l-l, B as in boy, 9 

### i-t-t-i-n as in Nancy, g-e-r. 10 

### Thank you. The EPA's Clean Power Plan is 11 

### a vital step forward to help address global 12 

### warming that will yield benefits of 26- to $45 13 

### billion annually once fully implemented. 14 

### In particular, it is expected to save 15 

### 3,600 lives each year and prevent 90,000 asthma 16 

### attacks annually. The Environmental Defense Fund 17 

### thanks EPA for finalizing these historic carbon 18 

### pollution limits that help address our nation's 19 

### single largest source of carbon pollution. 20 

### EDF encourages states to seize the 21 

### opportunity they have under the CPP to develop 2284

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### their own state plans, tailored to their unique 1 

### opportunities for innovation and cost savings. 2 

### We encourage EPA to finalize the model rule 3 

### frameworks just as soon as possible to help 4 

### support smart state planning efforts. 5 

### In particular, we strongly encourage EPA 6 

### to consider whether some components of the model 7 

### rules can be finalized shortly after the comment 8 

### period closes in order to provide states even 9 

### more clarity as they work to develop their plans. 10 

### Standardized model rules will provide 11 

### important guidance to states and help them 12 

### develop strong plans that ensure environmental 13 

### integrity. Model rule frameworks can help cut 14 

### down on the administrative work necessary for 15 

### states, allowing states to focus on the 16 

### customizable components of their implementation 17 

### effort that are most important to their 18


### stakeholders. 19 

### In addition, finalized model rules will 20 

### help facilitate interstate trading by doing the 21 

### heavy lifting on detailed underpinnings of 2285

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### emissions trading programs, which can help drive 1 

### innovation and cost savings. In particular, the 2 

### trading-ready feature of the model rules provides 3 

### an important opportunity for states to adopt a 4 

### state plan that is compatible with others. 5 

### Should states decline to carry out their 6 

### responsibilities to protect human health and the 7 

### environment from damaging carbon pollution, it is 8 

### EPA's responsibility to do so. This is the 9 

### compelling bipartisan vision of the Clean Air Act 10 

### that all Americans are entitled to the 11 

### protections of clean air under the law. To 12 

### realize that vision, EPA must ensure that 13 

### real-world emissions reductions are secured when 14 

### states decline to do so. 15 

### EDF urges EPA to finalize a federal plan 16 

### that puts federal protections in place swiftly 17 

### when a state declines to act. We are in a race 18 

### against time, and climate safeguards cannot wait. 19 

### Moreover, swiftly understanding the federal plan 20 

### parameters will provide important certainty for 21 

### businesses. 2286

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### In addition, we support EPA's proposal to 1 

### issue a federal plan for any state that does not 2 

### meet one of the interim state planning 3 

### milestones. We urge EPA to do so within 1 year 4 

### or less. It is also essential that EPA ensure a 5 

### federal plan as promptly issued in cases where a 6 

### state is not implementing its plan and fails to 7 

### take corrective action. This federal plan must 8 

### fully account for any foregone emissions 9 

### reductions. 10 

### We also urge EPA to put in place 11 

### effective federal limits on carbon pollution when 12 

### a state declines to carry out its 13 

### responsibilities. That means EPA must adopt 14 

### enforceable limits on the volume of climate 15 

### pollution discharge by affected power plants and 16 

### ensure that such limits are accompanied by strong 17 

### measures to ensure that these limits are not 18 

### circumvented and generate real reductions across 19 

### the power sector. 20 

### Any finalized federal plan should be 21 

### trading-ready, so companies can retain maximum 2287

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### flexibility to secure least-cost emissions 1 

### reductions. 2 

### Furthermore, even in the context of a 3 

### federal plan, EPA should offer opportunities to 4 

### work in partnership with the state. For example, 5 

### EPA can allow a state to customize certain 6 

### modular elements of the federal plan, so long as 7 

### it does not undermine environmental integrity. 8 

### In addition, EPA could allow a state to 9 

### carry out implementation and enforcement of the 10 

### federal plan. 11 

### Moreover, a state should always have the 12 

### option to step in and replace federal control 13 

### with an individualized state plan. 14 

### We urge EPA to finalize its Clean Energy 15 

### Incentive Program. It is essential that there 16 

### are incentives for early action to reduce carbon 17 

### pollution before the 2022 start of the Clean 18 

### Power Plan, so that we can continue the progress 19

### America is already making to address carbon 20 

### pollution from the electricity sector. 21 

### We support EPA's commitment to design the 2288

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### CEIP to encourage additional reductions and not 1 

### reduce program stringency. In addition, EPA 2 

### should take care in laying out its definition of 3 

### low-income efficiency, supporting authentic 4 

### community engagement in CEIP design processes, 5 

### and providing appropriate technical guidance in 6 

### order to ensure the programs are judiciously 7 

### targeted and fully leveraged to benefit 8 

### low-income communities. 9 

### Thank you. 10 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Bittinger. 11 

### I have one clarifying question, I guess. 12


### MR. BITTINGER: Sure. 13 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Earlier in your testimony, 14 

### you indicated that you were urging EPA to swiftly 15 

### act on the model rules, and you suggested if 16 

### certain portions were able to be released sooner 17 

### than others. Do you have any particular sections 18 

### or provisions that you thought would be more 19 

### useful to be issued or addressed earlier than the 20 

### entire rule? 21


### MR. BITTINGER: I don't have that 2289

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### information right now, but EDF may speak to that 1 

### later on in the commenting process. 2 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Okay. Thank you. Thank 3 

### you for your testimony today. 4


### MR. BITTINGER: Sure. 5 

### MR. CAMPBELL: I am going to now call the 6 

### next pair of speakers. Sarah Sanfilippo and 7 

### Stanley Kabala. 8 

### And, again, Sarah, please state your 9 

### name, and then spell it for the court reporter, 10 

### and then, Mr. Kabala, you will follow. 11 

### MS. SANFILIPPO: Hi. My name is Sarah 12 

### Sanfilippo, S-a-r-a-h, and Sanfilippo, S-a-n-f as 13 

### in Frank, i-l-i-p-p-o. 14 

### So I am here today on behalf of Women for 15 

### a Healthy Environment, located in Pittsburgh 16 

### Pennsylvania. Our mission is to educate and 17 

### empower women and those who love them to act as 18 

### ambassadors about environmental risks. 19 

### We carry out this mission by educating 20 

### the public about environmental exposures that 21 

### impact public health. Further, we advocate for 2290

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### policy solutions that improve the quality of life 1 

### for ourselves and our region, such as the one we 2 

### are discussing here today. And lastly, we are a 3 

### member of a coalition in Southwestern 4 

### Pennsylvania that is working together to clean up 5 

### our air for the health of our families and 6



### economy. 7 

### Women for a Healthy Environment strongly 8 

### supports the proposed Clean Power Plan for 9 

### existing power plants. Carbon is the single 10 

### largest contributing source of U.S. greenhouse 11 

### gas emissions. These emissions come from various 12 

### sources but most noticeably from the production 13 

### and consumption of cement, iron, steel, and 14 

### chemicals. 15 

### Carbon emissions go through a slow 16 

### process in which they are transferred and 17 

### absorbed into the atmosphere, making carbon the 18 

### primary driver of global warming. 19 

### Since the industrial revolution, 20 

### human-related sources have been responsible for 21 

### carbon emissions and the increase of emissions in 2291

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### the atmosphere. In 2013, carbon dioxide 1 

### accounted for 82 percent of all of U.S.'s 2 

### greenhouse gases, which we know leads to an 3 

### increase in climate. 4 

### 2014 was the hottest recorded year in 5 

### history, and 14 or the 15 hottest recorded years 6 

### in the history were in the 21st century alone. 7 

### The risks of climate change are already damaging. 8 

### Imagine how damaging it will be for our kids and 9 

### grandkids if we don't make the change now. 10 

### In particular, there are vulnerable 11 

### populations, such as the elderly, those with 12 

### heart and lung diseases, and especially our 13 

### children that need protection. 14 

### Climate change is responsible for several 15 

### health-related issues associated with heatwaves 16 

### and droughts, smog, extreme events like 17 

### hurricanes and flooding, as well as ticks and 18 

### mosquitoes, which can lead to Lyme disease and 19 

### West Nile Virus. 20 

### The health impacts are many, but just a 21 

### few are heat-related illness and death, increased 2292

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### rates and new cases of allergy and asthma 1 

### symptoms, increased mental stress, increases in 2 

### respiratory and cardiac disease, and impacts to 3 

### our food system, the basic building block on 4 

### which we live, grow, and thrive. 5 

### The Clean Power Plan is the first-ever 6 

### limit on carbon pollution for existing power 7 

### plants. This is the first step toward mitigating 8 

### climate change and improving air quality. As 9 

### reported by the Union of Concerned Scientists, 10 

### under the Clean Air Act, passed in 1973 and 11 

### amended in 1990, improvements have already been 12


### made. The Clean Power Plan can further these 13 

### accomplishments and continue to reduce the 14 

### negative health effects associated with climate 15 

### change. 16 

### A three-part study conducted by 17 

### scientists from Harvard School of Public Health, 18 

### the Public's Health at Boston University, and 19 

### Syracuse University analyzed three different 20 

### scenarios in the impact on clean air and public 21 

### health. Their findings were published previous 2293

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### to the introduction of the Clean Power Plan, but 1 

### it was found the scenario most similar to this 2 

### plan depicted the greatest magnitude of estimated 3 

### health benefits. 4 

### This can be seen as reassurance that the 5 

### Clean Power Plan is taking a step forward in the 6 

### right direction. Benefits such as thousands of 7 

### premature deaths and hospitalizations prevented, 8 

### in addition to reduced asthma symptoms, 9 

### illustrate the health gains we can yield. 10 

### Pennsylvania specifically is one of 12 11 

### states with persistent air quality problems 12 

### associated with power plant pollution. Because 13 

### of this, Pennsylvania is also one of three 14 

### states, along with Texas and Ohio, that would 15 

### realize the greatest health gains from the Clean 16


### Power Plan. 17 

### This plan also ensures the most effective 18 

### plans per state allowing tailored plans specific 19 

### to each region. This promotes meaningful 20 

### engagement with low-income and minority 21 

### communities, which are at greatest risk, while 2294

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### developing plans to implement carbon emission 1 

### regulations. 2 

### African American children are two times 3 

### as likely to be hospitalized for asthma. Latino 4 

### children are 40 percent more likely to die from 5 

### this. By implementing the regulations the CPP 6 

### places, up to 90,000 asthma attacks and 300,000 7 

### days of missed school and work can be prevented 8 

### per year by 2030. 9 

### The less time and money spent at the 10 

### doctors or less time sick is more time our 11 

### children and future generations can spend 12 

### reaching their full potential. 13 

### We know that there is only linkage 14 

### between poor air quality and adverse health 15 

### conditions, and we must look to the leadership of 16 

### the EPA to safeguard public health and the 17 

### environment. 18 

### Women for a Healthy Environment applauds 19 

### the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency for 20 

### proposing a strong rule to control carbon 21 

### pollution. The proposed control methods are 2295

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### sensible and cost effective. It is vital that 1 

### the EPA takes a leadership role on this issue and 2 

### to also continue to work with states while 3 

### creating clear guidelines and effective 4 

### methodologies. 5 

### We are counting on you to protect our 6 

### children and their future by placing strong 7 

### federal controls on carbon pollution for existing 8 

### power plants. With the adoption of this 9 

### rulemaking, EPA has the chance to make a positive 10 

### impact and improve the health of those living in 11 

### our region and across the country. 12 

### Thank you. 13 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Ms. Sanfilippo. 14


### Dr. Kabala? 15 

### DR. KABALA: My name is Stan Kabala. 16 

### That is Stanley J. Kabala. It's spelled 17 

### S-t-a-n-l-e-y, middle initial J, and the last 18 

### name, Kabala, K-a-b as in boy, a-l-a. My 19 

### affiliation is with the Center for Environmental 20 

### Research and Education at Duquesne University, 21 

### here in Pittsburgh, but at this moment, I am 2296

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### representing myself. 1 

### And I have come here today to voice my 2 

### support of the EPA-proposed Clean Power Plan, 3 

### which aims to cut carbon emissions from the 4 

### dirtiest power plants, 30 percent, by the year 5 

### 2030. 6 

### I will say at the outset that this 7 

### significant goal is a critical first step, but 8 

### only a critical first step in reaching the real 9 

### and necessary goal of an 80 percent reduction of 10 

### carbon emissions in the U.S. and the world by the 11 

### year 2050. 12 

### I'd like to make six points -- one 13 

### technological, three economic, and three ethical 14 

### -- all interrelated. I will begin and end, as 15 

### you will see, with the ethical points. 16 

### I am here in a couple of capacities. 17 

### Yes, I'm a Ph.D., but I'm also, as I say, 18 

### demographically correct. Polish immigrant, coal 19 

### miner, and Slovenian coal miner grandfathers, and 20 

### a father who was a steelworker. Go figure. 21 

### That's the way it seems to have worked. 2297

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### But my primary motivation is the fact 1 

### that I have four grandchildren, all under the age 2 

### of 7, and to put it bluntly, I'm not inclined to 3 

### have this country foist onto my grandchildren and 4 

### any other grandchildren, the cost of repairing 5 

### the damage my generation will have done to the 6 

### climate and, by extension, our economy, our 7 

### towns, and our cities. 8 

### I don't want to foot the bill -- I don't 9 

### want them to foot the bill for our, my prosperous 10 

### life. I would like my generation to pay its own 11 

### way and leave the prosperity equally accessible 12 

### for all those children. 13 

### Now, my technological point is that we 14 

### have right now the technologies required to 15 

### attain the carbon reduction goal. It is closely 16 

### bound up with my first economic point. Together, 17 

### they are striking, at least to me. 18 

### The real goal, as I've noted, is that 19 

### target of reducing to 80 percent of 1990 goals by 20 

### 2050. This major reduction can be achieved, and 21 

### I point out to a new economic analysis by ICF 2298

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### International that used data from a report 1 

### entitled "Pathways to Deep Carbonization in the 2 

### United States," done by Energy Environment and 3 

### Economics, the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab, 4 

### the Pacific Northwest National Lab, showing that 5 

### if the U.S. were to act aggressively from now 6 

### through 2030 to 2050 on investing in 7 

### energy-efficiency renewable energy and clean 8 

### electric vehicles, this is what could occur. 9 

### More than a million jobs would be created by 10 

### 2030, and up to 2 million by 2050; among them, 11 

### 1.2 million jobs in the construction sector 12 

### needed for this infrastructure strange. 13 

### The GDP of the U.S. would go up .6 14 

### percent by 2050 to $145 billion and $280 billion 15 

### by 2050. Disposable income would go up by as 16 

### much as $300 to $600 per household, and energy 17 

### bills would go down. In fact, according to this 18 

### study, by 2030, right around the corner, $5.3 19 

### billion and $41 billion by 2050. 20 

### My second economic point -- excuse me -- 21 

### raises two ethical points. That positive 2299

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### economic analysis simply cannot be undertaken in 1 

### a way that harms or burdens some people for the 2 

### common good of the rest of us. Special attention 3 

### must be paid to creating an effective transition 4 

### program for workers in the fossil fuel industries 5 

### who are most assuredly to be displaced from 6 

### current employee. This means retooling and 7 

### retaining highly skilled workers for high-paying 8 

### jobs in a low-carbon U.S. economy. 9 

### I remember what happened when the heart 10 

### of the U.S. steel industry was cut out, and the 11 

### industry collapsed here in Southwestern 12 

### Pennsylvania in the 1970s and '80s. The ensuing 13 

### unemployment and loss of tax revenue devastated 14 

### lives, households, communities, and businesses, 15 

### and the region needed 25 years to recover from 16 

### that economic disaster. 17 

### That same catastrophe could be visited on 18 

### those workers in industries in decline in a 19 

### low-carbon economy in the coal and power 20 

### industries in particular, and it would devastate 21 

### their communities. That cannot be allowed to 22100

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### happen. The burden must be shared equally, but 1 

### there's a way around it. 2 

### And I'll be quick in this. This 3 

### momentous carbon cutting that must engage cannot 4 

### be allowed to jeopardize low- and moderate-income 5 

### Americans, and in a word, the solution is what 6 

### has been called a "cap-and-trade program," three 7 

### steps, a climate avoidance cap of carbon 8 

### emission, taxation of all fossil fuels at point 9 

### of origin with a federal revenue-neutral tax that 10 

### will both drive the market away from use of the 11 

### fossil fuels and stimulate innovation and 12 

### alternatives. And simply put, it's a case of the 13 

### more fossil fuel you use, the more you pay. That 14 

### will spur both change sin use and in innovation. 15 

### And, finally, a large share of the 16 

### garnered revenue -- revenue garnered from the tax 17 

### will then be distributed on a per capita basis to 18 

### every adult American with the remainder invested 19 

### in carbon energy innovation -- carbon-free energy 20 

### innovation, thus, offsetting the financial burden 21 

### of higher fossil fuel prices. 22101

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### In a word, it's selling -- renting the 1 

### atmosphere of the United States, which we all 2 

### own, in the same way that Alaskans allow folks to 3 

### drill for oil and get a check every year back by 4 

### way of the Alaskan government. Same principle. 5 

### The key is to keep innovation moving while 6 

### avoiding a burden on those who can't afford the 7 

### burden that would be, indeed, placed on them by 8 

### higher fossil fuel prices. 9 

### And thank you very much for the 10 

### opportunity to speak here today. 11 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Kabala. 12 

### Thank you for your time. Thank you for your 13 

### testimony. 14 

### We will recess the hearing until the next 15 

### speakers are prepared to address the hearing. 16 

### [Recess taken from 1:22 to 1:24 p.m.] 17 

### MR. CAMPBELL: I call the session -- 18 

### hearing back into session. 19 

### Ms. Myers, would you like to address the 20 

### panel, please. 21 

### MS. MYERS: Yeah. Hello. My name is 22102

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Jennifer Myers. Do you want me to spell it? 1 

### [No audible response.] 2 

### MS. MYERS: Okay. J-e-n-n-i-f-e-r, 3 

### Meyers, M-y-e-r-s. 4 

### I'm here to speak as a citizen of 5 

### Pittsburgh in the United States and in support of 6 

### a group of -- an organization that I care a lot 7 

### about, Green for All, a nationwide group 8 

### mobilizing to help low-income communities and 9 

### empower themselves and transform America into a 10 

### green energy-leading country for other countries 11


### to look at. 12 

### And I was actually recently made aware of 13 

### the Clean Power Plan. I had known about it when 14 

### it came out in August, when the President 15 

### announced it with the EPA and was really excited 16 

### about it -- and still am, but feel that it's 17 

### action that's taken now that -- the more action 18 

### we can take now, the better we'll be in the 19 

### future. So it's good to see that we're pushing 20 

### forward and trying to create this. 21 

### I'm a little worried about the time 22103

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### frame, but I think everything is -- if it's 1 

### moving forward, it's good. It's positive. 2 

### So just a few of the talking points I 3 

### wanted to reiterate to you all today -- thank you 4 

### for hearing me -- were the main points about how 5 

### the federal plan is, I think as far as I 6 

### understand, going to be like a great model for 7 

### other states -- for states to follow if they 8 

### don't have their own plan in place, and I think 9 

### that the federal plan needs to take into 10 

### consideration the effect that climate change has 11 

### on low-income communities and how much harder 12 

### those communities get hit and try to really -- I 13 

### don't know if this is something that the EPA can 14 

### do, but try to really improve access to renewable 15 

### energy and get that sector moving as fast as 16 

### possible, especially for those communities where 17 

### we can see like great growth and new jobs taking 18 

### place. 19 

### I'm sure, as you are all aware, how the 20 

### Clean Power Plan affects low-income communities 21 

### is that just in terms of numbers, it's preventing 22104

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### 3,500 premature deaths per year and more than 1 

### 1,000 heart attacks and hospitalizations from air 2 

### pollution-related illness, preventing 140,000 to 3 

### 150,000 asthma attacks in children. 4 

### Forty percent of the 6 million Americans 5 

### living in close proximity to a coal plant are 6 

### people of color. One in six African American 7 

### kids has asthma compared with one in ten 8 

### nationwide. 9 

### So it's just -- for me sitting here 10 

### addressing you, it's just to congratulate you and 11 

### help -- and support this plan, which I am so 12 

### excited about, and try to just think that it's 13 

### not just putting emissions on power -- or limits 14 

### on power plants, which sadly have none right now, 15 

### which I was unaware of that. That's really 16 

### unbelievable to me and outrageous that they have 17 

### no limits right now, but the fact that we are 18 

### putting limits, that's great, but also to think 19 

### about this plan as how can we push green energy 20 

### jobs as much as possible, like really push that. 21 

### And that's all I really wanted to say, 22105

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### and I appreciate your time. 1 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Ms. Myers, for 2 

### your testimony. Thanks for your time today. 3 

### MS. MYERS: Thank you. 4 

### MR. CAMPBELL: The hearing will now be in 5 

### temporary recess until we have another speaker. 6 

### [Recess taken from 1:28 to 1:42 p.m.] 7 

### MR. CAMPBELL: I call the hearing back 8 

### into session, and we'll call the next speaker 9 

### whenever she's ready. 10 

### Good afternoon, Ms. Sage. Please state 11 

### your name, and spell it for the court reporter, 12 

### please. 13 

### MS. SAGE: Okay. My name is Heather 14 

### Sage, S-a-g-e. 15 

### Good afternoon. My name is Heather Sage, 16 

### and I reside in Pittsburgh. 17 

### As a woman and a mother of a nearly 18 

### 7-year-old daughter, the future of our air 19 

### quality and our surrounding environment is of 20 

### critical importance to me and my family on a 21 

### daily basis. I firmly support the implementation 22106

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### of the Clean Power Plan, as it is known, and hope 1 

### that it is as protective to human health and our 2 

### air, water, and land as possible. 3 

### We need to move swiftly and seriously in 4 

### a national direction toward safe, clean, 5 

### renewable, and healthy forms of generating energy 6 

### while at the same time heavily investing in 7 

### practices that safe energy and use it more 8 

### efficiently. 9 

### As a professional, I've spent most of my 10 

### career focused on supporting policies and 11 

### practices that do just that. Requiring that 12 

### power generation be cleaner has a multitude of 13 

### co-benefits: dramatic decreases in greenhouse 14 

### gas emissions from the power sector, huge savings 15 

### for ratepayers like me, many more jobs, and 16 

### incredible changes and improvements to public 17


### health. 18 

### Pittsburgh's air quality is among the 19 

### poorest in the nation, despite visible and 20 

### important improvements, and as a result, our 21 

### children suffer heavily from chronic asthma. Our 22107

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### most vulnerable people die at higher rates than 1 

### in most cities, and for many days during hot 2 

### weather, which has, of course, continued to trend 3 

### hotter, it is truly unsafe for many of us to be 4 

### outdoors or for any of us to recreate. 5 

### For my daughter's future and for the 6 

### future of her peers, I support this plan. 7 

### Thank you. 8 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you for your time 9 

### today. Thank you for your testimony. 10 

### MS. SAGE: I have comments written. 11 

### MR. CAMPBELL: You may provide a copy to 12 

### him, and please leave one at the registration 13 

### desk on your way out. 14 

### MS. SAGE: Okay. Thanks. 15 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you again. 16 

### MS. SAGE: Thanks for your time. I hope 17 

### it livens up a bit. 18 

### MR. CAMPBELL: The hearing will now be in 19 

### temporary recess until we have another speaker. 20 

### [Recess from 1:44 to 1:54 p.m.] 21 

### MR. CAMPBELL: I call this public hearing 22108

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### back into session. We'll now have the next 1 

### speaker. 2 

### Mr. Horchner, please state and spell your 3 

### name for the court reporter. 4 

### MR. HORCHNER: Hi. It's John Horchner. 5 

### It's H-o-r-c-h-n-e-r. I'm a citizen of 6 

### Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and a resident of 7 

### Allegheny County. 8 

### I work as a writer, and I've done some 9 

### work in the energy efficiency area, and I came to 10 

### Pittsburgh by way of Vermont. And I think it's a 11 

### unique area that can offer some insights as you 12 

### move forward, both positive and negative. 13 

### On the positive side, there is a group in 14 

### Pittsburgh that is studying the energy efficiency 15 

### and how it relates to indoor air quality, and 16 

### they have found that there is a link. And that's 17 

### a great benefit of energy efficiency. 18 

### This week, when there are readings 19 

### outside in Pittsburgh, according to Air Now, of 20 

### 160 microns of 2.5 particulate matter, the inside 21 

### reading in the Homewood Library, Carnegie 22109

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Library, which is a kind of Homewood low-income 1 

### area, was only 9. So they had renovated this 2 

### building which was built between -- around the 3 

### 1900s. They had renovated it in 2004. So the 4 

### point is this is a benefit of energy efficiency 5 

### of these kinds of retrofits. 6 

### The South Side Library, I got similar 7 

### readings. That was redone in 2011. 8 

### Now, why is this important? Ninety 9 

### percent of our time is spent indoors. 10 

### Nationally, asthma is the number one cause of 11 

### school absenteeism. In Pittsburgh, school nurses 12 

### estimate that 50 percent of the public school 13 

### children have asthma. This figure was so 14 

### startling that the Heinz Endowments is 15 

### commissioning a study to verify that number, but 16 

### that is from the school nurses themselves. 17 

### So for the good news or the mixed news, I 18 

### should say, Pennsylvania has a program called Act 19 

### 129, and it's an energy efficiency program. I 20 

### think it gives a good example of the 21 

### possibilities of what can happen when we work 22110

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### with utilities. 1 

### In most of the cases, I have to say from 2 

### what I've seen, it provides a note of caution to 3 

### beware of mixing energy efficiency with the 4 

### utilities. Every bone in their body runs against 5 

### energy efficiency. It just doesn't fit in any 6 

### way, shape, or form. 7 

### Eight years ago, they talked a great 8 

### game. There was a lot of talk about job 9 

### creation. There was a lot of talk about cutting 10 

### energy, and what happened is the lobbyist got in, 11 

### and the act turned into something that kind of 12 

### lost its teeth and really became a gift to the 13 

### utilities, if you can believe this. They were 14 

### allowed to recapture 2 percent of their revenues, 15 

### and they were only required over a 3-year period 16 

### to reduce energy by less than 1 percent. So, 17 

### when they trumpet the results from 2009 to 2013 18 

### and say look at all the great things we've done, 19 

### their reductions in energy, in my view, occurred 20 

### because of the recession. 21 

### Eight year ago when I moved here, there 22111

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### was one utility offering one residential energy 1 

### efficiency program in my ZIP code in Pittsburgh. 2 

### Eight year later, after this act has been in 3 

### existence, there is one utility offering one 4 

### residential program in my ZIP code for energy 5 

### efficiency. So forget Joe Biden's middle-class 6 

### task force that's going to put America back to 7 

### work. Forget about the possibility of a 40 8 

### percent savings in home energy use, and I guess 9 

### what's sad is forget about clean air in 10 

### low-income areas. The energy efficiency does not 11 

### seem to serve the interest of the utilities. So 12 

### I don't know what you're going to do with that 13 

### problem. 14 

### Any other industry where there is health 15 

### effects, the business would be closed down. So I 16 

### don't know what you're going to do. Can't close 17 

### the utilities down. How does that problem get 18 

### solved? But, anyway, good luck with that. 19 

### Thank you. 20 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you for your 21 

### testimony, and thank you for your time today. 22112

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### Thanks. 1 

### The hearing is now in temporary recess 2 

### until we have another speaker. 3 

### [Recess taken from 2 to 2:13 p.m.] 4 

### MR. CAMPBELL: I call this public hearing 5 

### back into session. I will call the next two 6 

### speakers. 7 

### Please, Ms. Kacy McGill and Ms. Shannon 8 

### Connors. Ms. Rumrill. 9 

### So, before you start, please state your 10 

### name, and spell your name for the court reporter, 11 

### please. 12 

### MS. McGILL: Okay. My name is Kacy 13 

### McGill. It's K-a-c-y, M-c-G-i-l-l. 14


### Can I start? 15 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Yeah, please. 16 

### MS. McGILL: Okay. Wonderful. 17 

### Hello, everyone. My name is Kacy McGill, 18 

### and I am an undergrad student at the University 19 

### of Pittsburgh studying biological sciences and 20 

### chemistry. I would like to take the opportunity 21 

### to thank you for giving students like myself a 22113

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### chance to comment on the EPA's Clean Power Plan. 1 

### I moved to Pittsburgh almost 3 years ago 2 

### to study biology at the University of Pittsburgh 3 

### from a small town in Maryland. As a child, I've 4 

### always dealt with asthma, but my move to 5 

### Pittsburgh exacerbated these symptoms. During 6 

### the winter and spring, my lungs actually hurt, 7 

### physically hurt. In the short time that I've 8 

### lived in Pittsburgh, I've had severe bronchitis 9 

### four times. I've only had bronchitis five times 10 

### in my entire life. 11 

### I have been hospitalized twice for asthma 12 

### symptoms, and I have actually been hospitalized 13 

### once this semester, 3 weeks ago. The poor air 14 

### quality in Pittsburgh affects my lifestyle. It 15 

### limits the amount of activities I can perform, 16 

### and it requires me to take time off from school. 17 

### I've probably missed 10 school days this 18



### semester. 19 

### My story just provides a glimpse of the 20 

### detrimental effects caused by fossil fuel 21 

### industries. In some of the areas of the United 22114

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### States, people can't take showers with lights on 1 

### because of the methane levels in their water 2 

### supply. Some people don't have access to clean 3 

### water, and that's like a human rights. 4 

### Because of contaminants due to unsafe 5 

### fracking in this country, many people in the 6 

### world, especially individuals from nonwhite and 7 

### poor communities are affected because of the 8 

### pollution we create as a society dependent on 9 

### dirty industries. 10 

### The nation's dependence on fossil fuel 11 

### industries is not sustainable. The United States 12 

### continued to lead as one of the biggest 13 

### contributors of the carbon emissions in the 14 

### world. We must address climate disruption 15 

### through immense change in our lifestyle. We must 16 

### resist pressure from the fossil fuel industry in 17 

### solidarity in an economy that emphasizes the 18 

### importance of renewable energy community and 19 

### local businesses. 20 

### The Clean Power Plan is a monumental step 21 

### forward, but we must ensure that all stakeholders 22115

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### accept full responsibility of the carbon 1 

### environmental pollution. We cannot continue to 2 

### jeopardize the health and well-being of our 3 

### future generations by neglecting the environment. 4 

### However, we must realize in order for true 5 

### results to occur, there must be a cultural shift 6 

### in the way we ask citizens to perceive 7 

### environmental issues. Only with the support of a 8 

### society can legislation and governmental 9 

### negotiations create lasting change. 10 

### At the University of Pittsburgh, we are 11 

### doing our part by creating divestment campaigns, 12 

### rallies and events. We strive every semester, 13 

### every semester, to bring more awareness to 14 

### students regarding the effects of climate change, 15 

### and why students at the university should fight 16 

### against carbon polluters. 17 

### Even as a part-time student -- I mean 18 

### full-time student with a part-time job, we 19 

### realize the severity of climate change 20 

### consequences and recognize the need to act now. 21 

### It is the government's duty to the people to 22116

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### comment against the destruction that companies 1 

### accelerating climate change cause and their 2 

### effects on the environment. 3 

### Thank you. 4 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Ms. McGill. 5 

### Thank you for your testimony. 6 

### MS. RUMRILL: Okay. It's my turn? 7 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. Please state your 8 

### name, and then spell it for the court reporter, 9 

### please. 10 

### MS. RUMRILL: My name is Carolyn Rumrill, 11 

### C-a-r-o-l-y-n, R-u-m-r-i-l-l. It's kind of a 12


### hard one. 13 

### So good afternoon. Like I said, my name 14 

### is Carolyn Rumrill. I am a junior environmental 15 

### science student at the University of Pittsburgh, 16 

### and I am originally from Rochester, New York. 17 

### I am here today to share why it is 18 

### necessary for the EPA to create a strong federal 19 

### implementation plan for clean power. 20 

### We know climate change is real, is real 21 

### and is happening right now. We know that one of 22117

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### the main contributors to climate change is carbon 1 

### dioxide. We know that the fossil fuel industry 2 

### is one of the leading producers of carbon dioxide 3 

### and other air pollutants. We also know that the 4 

### United States has historically been the number 5 

### one producer of greenhouse gases and is still one 6 

### of the top producers today. 7 

### So, last year, I had the privilege to 8 

### study abroad in Beijing for 6 weeks, and I was 9 

### absolutely horrified by the quality of air there. 10

### And I am just so proud of how far Pittsburgh has 11 

### come because I know some people have compared 12 

### what Beijing is today to what Pittsburgh used to 13 

### be, just with the poor air quality. But I would 14 

### hate if we were unable to continue making 15 

### progress in this city. 16 

### So the EPA needs to address this issue 17 

### swiftly, and I hope the final set of regulations 18 

### the EPA creates will be enough to create a 19 

### drastic change in the way we acquire and produce 20 

### energy in this country. 21 

### Renewable energy is the energy not of the 22118

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### future but of now. We have the tools necessary 1 

### to stop poisoning our air, land, and water. 2 

### Livelihoods are already in jeopardy from the mess 3 

### the coal and fossil fuel industry has created. 4 

### So many lives are affected by the thousands and 5 

### thousands of tons of carbon and other pollutants 6 

### we release every year. 7 

### This plan cannot only stimulate economic 8 

### growth and create jobs, but improve the health of 9 

### people and children across the country. We the 10 

### youth are tired of hearing about the doom of our 11 

### future. We are ready to address this issue and 12 

### make the necessary changes to save this Earth, 13 

### our only home. 14 

### We implore the generations ahead of us to 15 

### help us in this endeavor for the generations who 16 

### are not yet alive but will be impacted the most 17 

### by what has been done, and we need to do that 18



### now. 19 

### Thank you for listening and letting me 20 

### share my concerns. 21 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you for your 22119

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### testimony. Thank you for your time. You guys 1 

### did great. Thank you. 2 

### MS. RUMRILL: Thank you. 3 

### MR. CAMPBELL: We will now call Shannon 4 

### Connors and Alexandra Stash, please. 5 

### MS. STASH: Hi. I'm Alexandra Stash, 6 

### A-l-e-x-a-n-d-r-a, S-t-a-s-h. 7 

### Like I said, my name is Alexandra Stash, 8 

### and I am from New Gloucester, Maine. I am a 9 

### student at the University of Pittsburgh and 10 

### majoring in environmental science. Upon moving 11 

### to Pittsburgh, I instantly noticed a change in 12 

### the air quality here. The air here is very 13 

### dense, sometimes making it hard to breathe, and 14 

### many people living here develop some form of 15 

### asthma throughout their lives. 16 

### While the people of Pittsburgh suffer 17 

### from poor air quality here, there are people all 18 

### over the world who suffer a great deal more at 19 

### the hands of the fossil fuel industry and from 20 

### the emissions that we create here. 21 

### The people of Unist'to'en Camp in Canada, 22120

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### for example, are currently defending their native 1 

### land from Chevron and other fossil fuel companies 2 

### trying to build tar sands and fracked gas 3 

### pipelines across their land. They depend on 4 

### natural resources to survive, and these companies 5 

### are jeopardizing their livelihoods. 6 

### Other areas of the world, mainly in poor 7 

### and non-white communities, are already depleted 8 

### of their natural resources because of the 9 

### pollution that we create here. The U.S. is among 10 

### the countries who contribute the most to 11 

### pollution through carbon emissions, and because 12 

### of our pollutions, people's basic human rights, 13 

### such as clean air, clean water, and fertile land 14 

### are being taken away. 15 

### The Clean Power Plan is a good starting 16 

### point in fixing the solution -- or fixing this 17 

### problem, but we have to be focused on the people 18 

### and not numbers. The people experiencing the 19 

### impacts I have discussed here will not have 20 

### liberation until we are 100 percent carbon-free. 21 

### They will continue to suffer each day that we do 22121

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### not act, and the federal implementation plan 1 

### would be a great way to enforce stronger rules 2 

### with larger emission cuts on states that do not 3 

### already have their own plan. 4 

### I believe in you to take these steps even 5 

### when political backlash is a great possibility. 6 

### The youth environmental movement is mobilizing 7 

### all around the country by occupying space, 8 

### speaking at rallies, and launching divestment 9 

### campaigns. We are acting, and we realize the 10 

### seriousness of the problem at hand. Now it's 11 

### your turn to do something about it. 12 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you for your 13 

### testimony, Ms. Connors. 14 

### MS. CONNORS: S-h-a-n-n-o-n, 15


### C-o-n-n-o-r-s. 16 

### All right. I'm Shannon Connors. I am an 17 

### environmental studies major at the University of 18 

### Pittsburgh. I'm a sophomore, and I'm here today 19 

### to voice my support for President Obama's Clean 20


### Power Plan. 21 

### Recently, I've been hearing a lot of 22122

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### people talk about how great it is that last year, 1 

### Forble.com and The Economist named Pittsburgh one 2 

### of the most livable cities in the U.S., and I've 3 

### only been here for 2 years almost, but I can 4 

### definitely say that Pittsburgh is an awesome 5 

### city. We've got like the sports stadiums, the 6 

### parks, and a lot of cool stuff going on, but 7 

### being the most livable city isn't the only thing 8 

### Pittsburgh ranks high in. Our air is in the 9 

### dirtiest 13 percent of U.S. cities, right behind 10 

### L.A., which is at 7.1 percent. 11 

### In 2014, 270 out of 365 days were rated 12 

### yellow or worse in terms of air quality by you 13 

### guys, the EPA, and we rank ninth in the nation 14 

### for annual PM2.5, and the toxicity of the air in 15

### Allegheny County is in the worst 2 percent, and 16 

### 58 percent of that pollution is coming from the 17 

### nearby industries. 18 

### And these are numbers that people don't 19 

### want to talk about but obviously need to hear, 20 

### and Pittsburgh is often called the comeback city, 21 

### and people here are very proud of how far they've 22123

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### come. And, yes, you no longer have to wipe soot 1 

### off your car when you go to work in the morning, 2 

### and there is no longer a constant gray haze, but 3 

### that isn't enough. Pittsburgh has come a long 4 

### way, but we definitely have a lot more work to 5 

### do, and the demographic that's being most 6 

### affected by this poor air quality or water 7 

### quality is probably the group that's contributing 8 

### the least to these issues. And, in most cases, 9 

### that's children. 10 

### And a study conducted by the University 11 

### of Pittsburgh found a link between poor air 12 

### quality an autism because they're like taking in 13 

### more -- I forget the phrasing, but they're taking 14 

### in, like, more toxins per pound because they're 15 

### so tiny. 16 

### And we have a chance to hold people 17 

### accountable right now, and just down the river at 18 

### Neville Island, Koch Operations, they've had 19 

### chronic violations of air quality standards that 20 

### occurred on 330 days in a 432-day period. So, 21 

### obviously, the current regulations and 22124

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### punishments aren't working, so I think if the 1 

### fines in place were close to an amount that would 2 

### be threatening, that they would maybe take those 3 

### violations more seriously. 4 

### That's all I got. Thank you. 5 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Ms. Connors. 6 

### Thank you, Ms. Stash. Thank you for your time 7 

### today, and thank you for your testimony. 8 

### MS. CONNORS: Thank you. 9 

### [Pause.] 10


### MR. CAMPBELL: So we'll call the next 11 

### speaker, Mr. Good. Please state your name, and 12 

### spell it for the court reporter, please. 13 

### MR. GOOD: Ed Good, G-o-o-d. 14 

### My name is Ed Good. I'm with the Utility 15 

### Workers Union of America. I want to thank the 16 

### EPA for this opportunity to provide comments on 17 

### the federal plan requirements for greenhouse gas 18 

### emissions, from electric utility generating 19 

### units, which were constructed on or before 20 

### January 8th of 2014. 21 

### I am a proud member of the USUA for over 22125

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### 37 years. For 32 of those 37 years, I worked at 1 

### the R.E. Burger Electric Generating Plant in Mead 2 

### Township, Belmont County, Ohio, which is just 70 3 

### miles from here. The Burger plant ceased normal 4 

### operation in December of 2010. 5 

### I have seen firsthand the impact of what 6 

### state and/or federal policy and regulations can 7 

### do to an industry, region, communities, workers, 8 

### and families. So I'm here today, just want to 9 

### allow us, to properly address all aspects of 10 

### issues pertaining to a possible federal 11 

### implementation plan. I hope my comments 12 

### generates thought or consideration for the plan. 13 

### As you well know, this is a very complex 14 

### process. Comments, stakeholders, engagement, and 15 

### other action during the proposed Clean Power Plan 16 

### phase and now the fun rule phase is daunting. 17 

### The diversity of our nation as well as our energy 18 

### structure and delivery capability makes a 19 

### one-size-fits-all plan virtually impossible. 20 

### States, regions, and their status of a 21 

### competitive market and/or one of those of 22126

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### regulation, whether it be gas, electric 1 

### generation and/or delivery systems also needs to 2 

### be considered when developing a plan. However, 3 

### there are some basic components of a plan that 4 

### would address a national concern. 5 

### It is imperative a FIP addresses and 6 

### assures security, reliability, affordability, and 7 

### climate resiliency of our nation's energy grid. 8 

### Support for new technologies that will protect 9 

### existing jobs and create new jobs while reducing 10 

### emissions also needs to be a part of the plan. 11 

### Carbon capture utilization and storage, 12 

### coal to liquids, and gasification technology are 13 

### a couple of examples of essential programs that 14 

### will not only protect thousands of families 15 

### supporting jobs associated with coal and/or 16 

### co-fired generation, but it is also a component 17 

### of a workable plan addressing climate change. 18 

### With power demand surging around the 19 

### globe and with countries like China and India 20 

### continuing to build new coal-fired plants to fire 21 

### their growing economies, effective carbon capture 22127

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### sequestration will be essential if we are to be 1 

### successful in reducing carbon emissions on a 2 

### global level. 3 

### Without carbon capture sequestration, 4 

### global carbon emissions will continue to rise, 5 

### regardless of any reductions in the U.S. Lessons 6 

### learned from January 2014 cold weather events in 7 

### the PJM interconnection cannot be ignored. On 8 

### January 8th, PJM needed to bring on 50,000 9 

### megawatts of generation or about 175 to 200 units 10 

### in a short period of time to meet demand. 11 

### These included many units that had not 12 

### run in months. Many of the plans called on to 13 

### address the demand failed to start, including 45 14 

### percent of gas combustion units. The next day, 15 

### during PJM's all-time winter peak, 22 percent of 16 

### capacity were over 45,000 megawatts, three times 17 

### the more than normal, was offline due to forced 18 

### outages. Over 14,000 megawatts of coal-fired 19 

### pending retirements performed at 52 percent 20 

### capacity during the Polar Vortex. This and other 21 

### anomalies are all but forgotten until the next 22128

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### extent. 1 

### Black Star Plant where unit capability -- 2 

### with the ability to bring a unit on or a plant 3 

### online, which is totally separate from the grid, 4 

### should be another critical component of a plan. 5 

### The fuel mix, unit performance, and other 6 

### critical factors need to be considered within the 7 

### plan. 8 

### The EPA/FERC reliability safety valve 9 

### concept is also worthy of discussion. Although 10 

### regulators agree with this much needed provision, 11 

### it is unclear on how or where this will be 12 

### achieved. A mechanism by which a unit or plan is 13 

### placed on turning gear for a period of time can 14 

### assist or address this concern. This process 15 

### should be separate from reliability, must run 16 

### tight designation or agreement. The turning gear 17 

### concept would merely prevent a unit or plant from 18 

### irreparable harm or damage if decommissioned. If 19 

### needed, a unit on turning gear could be restarted 20 

### after being out of commission for a period of 21 

### time if maintained properly. 22129

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### The estimated loss of 50 gigawatts of 1 

### coal-fired generation by 2030 would impact 2 

### certain states, regional, and local economies 3 

### differently. When considering a federal 4 

### implementation plan, crafters need to be 5 

### cognizant of the real impact to communities. 6 

### Adopting polities that support the modernization 7 

### of existing generation and transmission 8 

### infrastructure, including the continued use of 9 

### responsible coal-fired generation coupled with 10 

### real support for workers and communities who may 11 

### have become stranded in the process, is the best 12 

### path forward. 13 

### Once again, I'd like to thank you for the 14 

### opportunity to provide comments, and I would be 15 

### happy to address any questions, if you have any. 16 

### Thank you. 17 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Good. 18 

### Thank you for your testimony and for your time 19 

### today. 20 

### MR. GOOD: Thank you. 21 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you. 22130

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### The hearing will now be in recess until 1 

### we have another speaker. 2 

### [Recess taken from 2:33 to 2:59 p.m.] 3 

### MR. CAMPBELL: I call this public hearing 4 

### back into session. The next speakers are ready 5 

### to speak. I call Brittany Faulkner and Angela 6 

### Wiley. Please take your time. Whenever you're 7 

### ready. 8 

### So, Ms. Faulkner, when you're ready, 9 

### please state your name, and spell it for the 10 

### court reporter, please. 11 

### MS. FAULKNER: Okay. All right. My name 12 

### is Brittany Faulkner, B-r-i-t-t-a-n-y, 13


### F-a-u-l-k-n-e-r. 14 

### All right. While I am a student at the 15 

### University of Pittsburgh and I'm originally from 16 

### a small town nestled in the Allegheny Forest 17 

### called Smethport, Pennsylvania, I moved to 18 

### Pittsburgh on a warm August morning, and my first 19 

### view of the skyline was hazy because of fine 20 

### particulates that blocked my view. 21 

### I see these particles as evidence of a 22131

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### rapidly changing climate caused by our own 1 

### willingness to change. We are at a crucial 2 

### moment in history where change is necessary. 3 

### Continuing to generate electricity the way we do 4 

### will ultimately drive us to experience shortages 5


### of food and shelter. 6 

### I'm a strong support of the Clean Power 7 

### Plan because I see it as the first step on the 8 

### road to addressing climate change. I want to see 9 

### reform in the way the U.S. tackles climate change 10 

### and how we plan to meet our energy needs in the 11 

### future. I think the best way to do this is to 12 

### implement a plan at the federal level. Each 13 

### state must abide by it, and no one can back out 14 

### of helping to achieve the goal of reducing our 15 

### carbon output and ultimately helping to create a 16 

### sustainable society within the United States. 17 

### I also think we need to set an example 18 

### for other countries and show that carbon emission 19 

### standards are necessary, and I think implementing 20 

### this plan is the first step in doing that. 21 

### Having a federal implementation plan is 22132

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### also vital for the health of current and future 1 

### generations. My little brother was diagnosed 2 

### with asthma when he was 9, and I couldn't 3 

### understand why, because no one else in the 4 

### history of my family had asthma. Then I learned 5 

### that all of the pollution created in the Ohio 6 

### River Valley blows over on to Pennsylvania. 7 

### My roommate also has asthma, but oddly 8 

### enough, it developed only after she emigrated 9 

### from Canada over 10 years ago. The air we breathe 10 

### is starting to affect us, and we need to take 11 

### action now in order to spare our children and 12


### ourselves harm. 13 

### Right now, we are facing tons of 14 

### opposition from people who claim setting carbon 15 

### emission standards and enforcing them at the 16 

### federal level will rattle our economy. We can't 17 

### let them win. We need to support this plan and 18 

### what it stands for, a healthier generation with 19 

### fewer asthma attacks and a future where people 20 

### can look at the skyline of Pittsburgh and see a 21 

### crystal-clear view of how far the nation has come 22133

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### in air quality reform. 1 

### Thank you. 2 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you for your 3 

### testimony, Ms. Faulkner. 4 

### Ms. Wiley? 5 

### MS. WILEY: Thank you. My name is Angela 6 

### Wiley, A-n-g-e-l-a, W-i-l-e-y. 7 

### Hello. MY name is Angela Wiley. I am a 8 

### West Virginia transplant to Pittsburgh, 9 

### Pennsylvania. Thank you for the opportunity to 10 

### offer comment today. 11 

### I'm here to speak in support of the EPA's 12 

### Clean Power Plan and to comment on the recently 13 

### proposed federal implementation plan. I'm here 14 

### today because I was invited by an organizer at 15 

### the Allegheny Group of the Sierra Club named Eva. 16 

### Six years ago, I started organizing with 17 

### Eva as a late teenager, just entering college, 18 

### around environmental issues, and in preparing 19 

### this comment, I realized that for the first time, 20 

### Eva and I have inched our way out of the category 21 

### of youth, and it felt important to mark my first 22134

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### public comment as what I feel is like a real 1 

### adult. It is a very weird feeling. 2 

### In Pittsburgh now, instead of being a 3 

### college student or a youth climate activist, I am 4 

### a public librarian, and I am the granddaughter -- 5 

### I have always been a granddaughter of a lifelong 6 

### steelworker. I am part of a network of dozens of 7 

### neighborhoods who rely on their libraries for 8 

### gathering together, for information seeking, and 9 

### for rethinking the way the world works, in big 10 

### and small ways. 11 

### The narrative of Pittsburgh is by now 12 

### well known. The city, which I admire and love 13 

### with every bone in my body, has demonstrated that 14 

### it is possible to being moving beyond our history 15 

### and our memories. 16 

### The production of steel in Pittsburgh, 17 

### fueled by coal mined in Southern West Virginia, 18 

### Eastern Kentucky, and other pockets of Appalachia 19 

### has turned lungs and church brick black with soot 20 

### and has threatened the health of our rivers. 21 

### It also built a town with people strong 22135

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### in steel, and today and in days to come, we can 1 

### keep the good, and we can shed our attachment to 2 

### dirty industry and to fossil fuel extraction. 3 

### To build a model federal plan that is 4 

### strong and that is justice based, the EPA must 5 

### ensure that the carbon pollution standards and 6 

### the model federal plan achieve the pollution 7 

### reductions promised in the final power plan or 8 

### that the standards in your model plan reach even 9 

### higher to show what is truly possible. 10 

### I would like to see that the model 11 

### federal plan benefits frontline, low-income, and 12 

### indigenous communities that have faced fossil 13 

### fuels pollution in extractive industry that have 14 

### created the falsehood of cheap energy. 15 

### I would like to see a model federal plan 16 

### that maximizes utilities' incentives that invest 17 

### in energy efficiency and would like to see 18 

### incentives withheld for utilities who are not 19 

### seeking innovative and justice-based bridges away 20 

### from fossil fuels. 21 

### EPA, I urge you to take on the innovative 22136

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### spirit of Pittsburgh and to embody the strength, 1 

### compassion, and curiosity of the community 2 

### members and the librarians who I work with every 3 

### day in Pittsburgh public libraries. I know you 4 

### have the research to support a strong model 5 

### federal plan, and now I lend my voice to leverage 6 

### some political will. 7 

### So please get to work in moving the Clean 8 

### Power Plan ever forward. The young generations 9 

### that I now serve in the library do not just need 10 

### clean air to breathe, they need a shift away from 11 

### boom-and-bust industries, and they need to see 12 

### leadership from you and from the rest of us to 13 

### begin that shift. 14 

### So thanks in advance for working to move 15 

### a strong power plan forward. 16 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Ms. Wiley. 17 

### MS. WILEY: Thank you. 18 

### I have paper copies if you'd like them. 19 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Yes. Please give one to 20 

### the court reporter and one to the registration 21


### desk. 22137

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### MS. WILEY: Okay. 1 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you both for your 2 

### time and your testimony. You did great. Thanks. 3 

### The hearing will now be in recess until 4 

### another speaker arrives. 5 

### [Recess taken from 3:06 to 3:18 p.m.] 6 

### MR. CAMPBELL: The public hearing is 7 

### called back into order. 8 

### Mr. Romanus, please state your name and 9 

### spell it for the court reporter, please. 10 

### MR. ROMANUS: Sure. Jordan Romanus, 11 

### J-o-r-d-a-n, last name Romanus, R-o-m-a-n-u-s. 12 

### So, actually, I grew up an hour south of 13 

### here in the coal-mining town of Waynesburg, 14 

### Pennsylvania. We still have a few functioning 15 

### mines, but they're slowly closing them down. 16

### Actually, I think they just announced they closed 17 

### the Emerald Mine or Cumberland Mine, one of the 18 

### two. I still have friends who are in the coal 19 

### mining industry, and a lot of my family still 20 

### works in the coal mining industry. 21 

### My pappy recently passed away. He spent 22138

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### 40 years there. A lot of relatives worked there. 1 

### My grandma still depends on the pension from the 2 

### mine workers. 3 

### But despite all of that, I think this 4 

### plan is something we have to do. I feel like the 5 

### people in those communities need to be taken care 6 

### of, but as a society, we need to -- we have to be 7 

### honest with ourselves and say coal is bad for our 8 

### future, and we need to do whatever we got to do, 9 

### whether it's the Clean Power Plan, some other 10 

### plan, complete support of it, and whatever we 11 

### have to do to make sure that the Republicans 12 

### don't jam this up and ruin it. I'm in complete 13 

### support of it, and I guess that's pretty much it. 14 

### Actually, one last comment. Our 15 

### congressman is Tim Murphy. I know he says a lot 16 

### of stuff about supporting the coal miners, but 17 

### just for the record, I think he could care less 18 

### about the working people of Appalachia. 19 

### Thank you. 20 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Romanus. 21 

### Thank you for your testimony and for your time. 22139

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### I will call the next speaker, Mr. 1 

### Butcher, please. 2 

### Mr. Butcher, please state your name, and 3 

### spell it for the court reporter, please. 4 

### MR. BUTCHER: Good afternoon. My name is 5 

### Andrew Butcher, B-u-t-c-h-e-r. Thank you for 6 

### hosting these hearings. Thank you for having me 7 

### today. I represent an organization by the name 8 

### of GTECH Strategies. I am the founder and CEO. 9 

### GTECH stands for Growth Through Energy and 10 

### Community Health. We are an environmental and 11 

### community development non-profit based in 12 

### Pittsburgh's East End. We work in communities 13 

### throughout Allegheny County, working with 14 

### community partnerships at the intersection of 15 

### community development and the green economy. 16 

### Largely, we're interested in how the 17 

### process of targeting environmental liabilities 18 

### can serve as a process for community development, 19 

### community revitalization, of which our region 20 

### represents a wide away of environmental 21 

### liabilities, which no doubt prior testimonies 22140

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### have alluded to, to which extent we represent a 1 

### portion of the non-profit sector that recognizes 2 

### that through collective action, we have the 3 

### opportunity for innovative economic development, 4 

### to which extent we are a proud co-founder and 5 

### co-convener of the Reenergized Pittsburgh 6 

### Coalition, representing a spectrum of energy 7 

### efficiency providers throughout Allegheny County, 8 

### who have been working for the last 5 years to 9 

### increase awareness around energy efficiency and 10 

### the potential -- and a range of different 11 

### communities to invest in home energy performance 12 

### issues. 13 

### So three primary points for testimony 14 

### today. The final version of the Clean Power Plan 15 

### released in August does not list demand-side 16 

### energy efficiency as a building block among the 17 

### methods of emissions reduction; however, we 18 

### encourage the state to promote and incorporate 19 

### energy efficiency as a key component of the 20 

### Pennsylvania state implementation plan. 21 

### We appreciate the EPA's role in 22141

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### facilitating a broader statewide process. We 1 

### encourage the state of Pennsylvania to pursue its 2 

### own state implementation plan with clear 3 

### coordination and partnership with the EPA. 4 

### Energy efficiency represents the 5 

### cleanest, cheapest, and fastest method of 6 

### emissions reduction. The benefits of demand-side 7 

### energy efficiency include reduced energy cost for 8 

### consumers, reduced demand on grid, job creation, 9 

### workforce development, improved health and 10 

### citizens in our environment, and a significant 11 

### step towards reaching the overall emissions 12 

### reduction goals under the Clean Power Plan. 13


### So how can the Commonwealth best use 14 

### energy efficiency in meetings its compliance 15 

### obligations? We do encourage the DEP to make 16 

### energy efficiency the first method of emissions 17 

### reductions, as described above. Energy 18 

### efficiency provides a myriad of environmental 19 

### economic benefits, and we recommend that the DEP 20 

### leverage existing energy efficiency programs, 21 

### such as Act 129, by aligning the state 22142

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### implementation goals with the structure of these 1



### programs. 2 

### Further, if you bear with me -- and 3 

### perhaps most importantly for my organization's 4 

### mission, which targets low- to moderate-income 5 

### communities, we are particularly keen to see 6 

### regional support for the Pennsylvania plan to 7 

### include provisions for participating in the Clean 8 

### Energy Incentive Program, which would permit 9 

### double credit for emissions reductions in 10 

### low-income communities. This could have 11 

### significant impact in our region in not only 12 

### advancing energy efficiency, but also renewable 13 

### energy mitigating associated home performance 14 

### issues that impair home health conditions in 15 

### low-income residents' homes. 16 

### Again, to underscore, Clean Energy 17 

### Incentive Program represents I think a unique and 18 

### bold opportunity for the Commonwealth to 19 

### incentivize a growing opportunity for investments 20 

### in the green economy, which would 21 

### disproportionately affect and benefit those 22143

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### communities disproportionately affected by 1 

### environmental injustice. 2 

### Our organization, as I mentioned, is 3 

### based in the East End of Pittsburgh. We 4 

### represent low to moderate incomes throughout 5 

### Allegheny County. More information can be found 6 

### at ww.GTECHStrategies.org. 7 

### Thank you very much, and I look forward 8 

### to next steps with this process. 9 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Mr. Butcher. 10 

### Thank you for your testimony and for your time 11 

### today. 12 

### The hearing will now be in temporary 13 

### recess until another speaker arrives. 14 

### [Recess taken from 3:24 to 3:43 p.m.] 15 

### MR. CAMPBELL: The public hearing is 16 

### called into session. 17 

### The next speaker, Ms. Schatz. Please 18 

### state your name, and spell it for the court 19 

### reporter. 20 

### MS. SCHATZ: Jessica Schatz. 21 

### J-e-s-s-i-c-a. Schatz is S-c-h-a-t-z. All 22144

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### ready? 1 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Yes, please. Whenever 2 

### you're ready. 3 

### MS. SCHATZ: Great. Good afternoon. My 4 

### name is Jessica Schatz. I am a student at the 5 

### University of Pittsburgh as well as a board 6 

### member of Free the Planet, an environmental group 7 

### on University of Pittsburgh's campus. 8 

### I am here today to represent the student 9 

### body at my university as well as the youth of 10 

### today as a whole. 11 

### I grew up in a small town in Northwest 12 

### Washington State. Coming to Pittsburgh was my 13 

### first experience living in a large city. My 14 

### college experience has been filled with traveling 15 

### to new places, whether cities in the U.S., 16 

### Boston, Chicago, D.C., as well as time spent 17 

### abroad in West Africa and Europe. 18 

### During this time, I have been exposed to 19 

### much more diversity than I'd ever seen in my 20 

### hometown. I've encountered different world views 21 

### and interests and lifestyles. I've become aware 22145

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### of societal challenges that some people combat 1 

### every day that I didn't even know existed, yet at 2 

### the base of all of this diversity, we are united 3 

### by some basic needs and wants. 4 

### We all want to provide a good life for 5 

### our families to live safe and stable lives, to be 6 

### in good health, but none of these things are 7 

### possible. When 25.5 million people in our 8 

### country live with asthma, these cases 9 

### concentrated where air pollution is most severe. 10 

### None of these things are possible when 11


### CO2

### levels in water are acidifying the water, 12 

### destroying both marine life and threatening the 13 

### livelihoods of those who depend on it. 14 

### None of these things are possible when 15 

### sea levels are rising, putting the 643 million 16 

### people around the globe that live in 17 

### low-elevation coastal areas at risk of losing 18 

### their homes. None of these things -- safe, 19 

### healthy, stable lives -- are possible if we don't 20 

### care for the environment in which we live. 21 

### I want to thank the EPA for the work it's 22146

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### done in finalizing the Clean Power Plan. Taking 1 

### action to reduce carbon emissions from power 2 

### plants is a very crucial step in combatting the 3 

### negative effects of climate change. 4 

### I want to express my support for the plan 5 

### as well as push the EPA to strengthen its 6 

### restrictions even further. If we are to face the 7 

### global threats of climate change, it is 8 

### imperative that the United States sends a strong 9 

### message to the global community that it is 10 

### committed and serious, not through merely verbal 11 

### support, but by the actions it takes to make 12 

### positive change. 13 

### Thank you. 14 

### MR. CAMPBELL: Thank you, Ms. Schatz. 15 

### Thank you for your time and for your testimony. 16 

### The public hearing will now be in 17 

### temporary recess. 18 

### [Recess taken from 3:48 to 5 p.m.] 19 

### MR. CAMPBELL: I will now call the public 20 

### hearing into session. We have no further 21 

### speakers. I will close the public hearing. 22147

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202-898-1108 • Baltimore: 410-752-3376

Toll Free: 888-445-3376 

### [Whereupon, at 5:01 p.m., the hearing was 1 

### closed.] 2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22