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ORIGINAL 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 

IN THE MATTER OF: 

COASTAL AIR TRANSPORT, INC. 

RESPONDENT 

TJ 

\.JJ LITIGATION CONFERENCE .. o 

BEFORE THE HONORABLE 

JUDGE J. E. SULLIVAN 

DOCKET NO. FDMS NO. FAA-2011-1005 

JULY 30, 2012 

1:30 P.M. 

RECEIVED 

AUG t 3 2Df2 

HEARING DOCKET 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 2 

1 APPEARANCES: 

2 

3 ON BEHALF OF FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 

4 RASHAWN RICH GEORE, ESQUIRE 

5 OFFICE OF THE REGIONAL COUNSEL, AS0-7 

6 SOUTHERN REGION 

7 FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 

8 P.O. BOX 20636 

9 ATLANTA, GA 30320 

10 P: 404.305.5200 

11 

12 ON BEHALF OF COASTAL AIR TRANSPORT, INC. 

13 MCHAEL FOSTER, PRESIDENT 

14 COASTAL AIR TRANSPORT, INC., RESPONDENT 

15 P.O. BOX 3985 

16 CHRISTIANSTED, ST. CROIX, VI 00822 

17 P: 340.773.6862 

18 

19 ALSO PRESENT: 

20 MR. CODY L. SMITH 

21 ATTORNEY AT LAW 

22 OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

23 U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 

24 1200 NEW JERSEY AVENUE, S.E. 

25 WASHINGTON, DC 20590 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 3 

1 LITIGATION CONFERENCE 

2 July 30, 2012 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We are on the record in the 

4 matter of Coastal Air Transport, Inc. This is Docket 

5 No. FAA-2011-1005. Today is Monday, July 30, 2012, and 

6 the parties have convened for a third CR16 Litigation 

7 Scheduling Conference. The Federal Aviation 

8 Administration, hereinafter referred to as "FAA," is 

9 represented by its attorney, Rashawn Rich George, who 

10 is present by telephone. The Respondent, Coastal Air 

11 Transport, Inc. is represented by its President, 

12 Michael Foster, who is Acting Pro Se on behalf of the 

13 Company. Also present at the Office of Hearings today 

14 as an observer is Cody L. Smith, an Att6rney at Law, 

15 who is an employee at the Office of Hearings. Good 

16 afternoon, everyone. 

17 MS. GEORGE: Good afternoon. 

18 MR. FOSTER: Good afternoon. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you very much for 

20 being flexible and agreeing to reschedule this 

21 conference from this morning to this afternoon. After 

22 the matter was set, it turned out that I had another 

23 conflict in the morning; so, I appreciate everybody's 

24 flexibility. Let's start with some of these things. I 

25 will just note that the last time that we talked with 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 4 

1 each other was on June 11, 2012, and at that time the 

2 parties appeared for a second CR16 Litigation 

3 Scheduling Conference. During that conference, some 

4 matters came up and so this Administrative Court 

5 deferred setting discovery deadlines, hearing dates, 

6 and other procedural matters, and reset the conference 

7 for today's date, and then of course the time was 

8 juggled a little bit today because of the Court's other 

9 conflict. 

10 Since the June 11, 2012 second litigation 

11 scheduling conference, there have been multiple filings 

12 with this office, and I thought I would just identify 

13 those. And, I am going to use for the filing date, the 

14 date that it was actually date stamped as "Received" 

15 into the Office of Hearings file. So, on June 18, 

16 2012, the FAA filed the Agency's Request for Discovery 

17 and Production of Documents. On July 19, 2012, the 

18 Office of Hearings received the Respondent's Opposition 

19 to Hearing on Sanction Only. On July 23, 2012, the FAA 

20 filed an Agency Brief in support of its Alternative 

21 Motion for Hearing on Sanction only. That same day, on 

22 July 23, 2012, the FAA also filed an Agency Motion to 

23 Strike Respondent's Opposition to Hearing on Sanctions 

24 Only. In addition, on July 26, 2012, the FAA filed the 

25 Complainants' Proposed Witness List, Complainants' Date 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 5 

1 of Regarding Venue, and Agency Motion to Deem Request 

2 for Admissions Admitted and Motion to Compel Responses 

3 to Discovery. 

4 We have a lot of things to talk about this 

5 afternoon, and I thought perhaps one of the things we 

6 could discuss that would be fairly quick to start off 

7 the hour is the issue of venue. As the paper work in 

8 this Court file indicates, there was at least some 

9 dispute earlier about the venue, which is where the 

10 hearing should be cited. The Respondent had requested 

11 St. Croix in the Virgin Islands, and the FAA had 

12 originally suggested perhaps San Juan, Puerto Rico. 

13 Given the more recent filing by the FAA, which was 

14 filed on July 26, 2012, and entitled, "The 

15 Complainants' Statement Regarding Venue," It appears 

16 that there is an agreement by the parties the venue 

17 should be set in St. Cr6ix, the Virgin Islands. Ms. 

18 George, starting with you, would that be a correct 

19 summary? 

20 MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and Mr. Foster, is 

22 that also your understanding? 

23 MR. FOSTER: I don't think I have received 

24 that Notice yet, Your Honor. I haven't read anything 

25 that says that. And, also, I missed the date on the 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 6 

1 Witness List that the FAA had sent. I don't believe I 

2 have received that yet. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, on July 26, 2012 

4 MR. FOSTER: Yes. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: the FAA filed with the 

6 Office of Hearings, three different documents. One, 

7 was a complainant's Proposed Witness List. 

8 MR. FOSTER: Okay. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: The second was the 

10 Complainant's Statement regarding venue; and, the third 

11 was an Agency Motion to Deem Request for Admissions 

12 Admitted, and Motion to Compel Responses to Discovery. 

13 MR. FOSTER: Okay, I have not received those 

14 yet, of course they don't that was the 26th, today is 

15 the 30th, that is four days, so we it is probably in 

16 the mailbox today. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Most likely, and, I am going 

18 to double check and just see if this was the faxed 

19 date, or the mail date that I received those. That was 

20 the date that they were faxed to this office. 

21 MR. FOSTER: Okay, I haven't 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, do you have a fax 

23 machine that is usable, that the FAA can fax these 

24 documents to you? 

25 MR. FOSTER: Yes, I do. 

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n .. 
16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 7 

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

2 MR. FOSTER: Although, the other day I was 

3 trying to fax that that last response I made through 

4 and it wouldn't it wouldn't accept it on the other end, 

5 I guess. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well we will talk 

7 about that. Let me ask the two of you a couple of 

8 other questions, and I am going to start with Ms. 

9 George; and Mr. Foster, just so that you know, in terms 

10 of Court etiquette, the Court normally first addresses 

11 any new question to the Plaintiff, and then moves to 

12 the Respondent for the Respondent's opportunity to talk 

13 about things. So, it is just protocol, if you will. 

14 MR. FOSTER: Okay. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, Ms. George, starting 

16 with you, after June 11, 2012, the Court had directed 

17 you and Mr. Foster to have a second CR26(f) Conference, 

18 and talk about a couple of different things including 

19 but not limited to the issues of venue, witnesses, time 

20 appearing and so forth, did you have that conference? 

21 And, if so, when? 

22 MS. GEORGE: No, Your Honor, we were unable 

23 to verbally speak, which is why I had reduced the 

24 Agencies positions to writing, and forwarded those to 

25 Mr. Foster and to yourself on July 2 6. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 8 

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and what was the 

2 problem in not being able to get together with Mr. 

3 Foster between June 11, 2012 and today's date, July 30, 

4 2012? 

5 MS. GEORGE: I was not able to contact him by 

6 phone. Mr. Foster did leave me a voice mail message on 

7 July 25th regarding a good faith letter regarding the 

8 Discovery that I had forwarded to him on the 20th of 

9 July; and, so that is why we just hadn't had an 

10 opportunity to speak. So, I wanted to make sure that 

11 at least our positions were in writing for today's 

12 conference. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, why don't I back track 

14 a little bit, after June 11, 2012, what efforts, and 

15 can you be specific, did you make to try and reach Mr. 

16 Foster to have a telephone conversation with him in 

17 compliance with the Court's directives? 

18 MS. GEORGE: I don't have any notes of the 

19 specific dates, Your Honor, I am sorry. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: In the future, please take 

21 notes because that is not a question that is unusual 

22 for this Court to ask, and when the parties fail to 

23 comply with a Court Order, I would like to have very 

24 specific identification of the Court's attempt to or a 

25 Parties attempt to comply. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 9 

1 MS. GEORGE: I understand. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I would expect you in the 

3 future to call on June 12, 2012, June 13, 2012, to 

4 email June 14, 2012, and so forth, and provide a record 

5 of an attempt to comply, so that I can then turn to Mr. 

6 Foster and say, "Mr. Foster, now you tell me what you 

7 tried to do to comply with the Court Order. " 

8 MS. GEORGE: I understand, Your Honor, and in 

9 the future, we will make sure that we have those notes. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Thank you. Mr. Foster, 

11 turning to you, and since you are listening, and I am 

12 sure you have an idea of what I am going to be asking 

13 at this point, what efforts did you make after June 11, 

14 2012 to contact Ms. George to comply with the Court's 

15 directive that the two of you talk in a second CR26(f) 

16 Conference? 

17 MR. FOSTER: Your Honor, I guess I was 

18 remised. I was waiting for her to contact me, and I 

19 had no communication with her; and we had no messages 

2 0 on our answering machine. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Why would you think that it 

22 is her obligation only to try and comply with the Court 

23 Order, and not yours as well? 

24 MR. FOSTER: I don't really have an answer 

25 for that. I just felt that she was more or less 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 10 

1 running the show. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, she is not, I am; and, 

3 when I direct you and Ms. George to talk to each other, 

4 I expect you both to be dialing the phone, or punching 

5 those phone buttons, as soon as I get off the phone. 

6 So, in the future, if I direct you to do something, or 

7 I direct the two of you to do something, you are 

8 actively involved as a participant; and, I would expect 

9 you, and do expect you to make every effort that you 

10 possibly can to carry out the Court's directive, 

11 independent of what Ms. George may or may not be doing. 

12 You should also be keeping notes of every single phone 

13 call that you make for example, in emails, so that if 

14 the Court has cause to ask you, you can show to the 

15 Court that you have tried in good faith to comply. 

16 Does that make sense? 

17 MR. FOSTER: Yes, it does, Your Honor. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you very much. 

19 Folks, let's talk then about a couple of more different 

20 things. We have a variety of different Motions that 

21 the FAA has filed, and I want to go a little earlier 

22 than those most recent Motions, and I want to take you 

23 back, if I may, to the May 22, 2012 Rule 26(f) Report 

24 that Ms. George filed on behalf of both of you. Ms. 

25 George, do you have that in front of you? 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 11 

1 MS. GEORGE: I will in just one moment, Your 

2 Honor. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, while you are looking, 

4 Mr. Foster, do you have that in front of you? 

5 MR. FOSTER: I am pulling it up right now, 

6 Your Honor. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

8 MS. GEORGE: I have it, Your Honor. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Ms. George has her 

10 copy. Mr. Foster, have you found yours? 

11 MR. FOSTER: I have one May 23rd I have a 

12 Continuance a second CR16 Conference. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I can barely hear you, 

14 sir, which means the Court Reporter could probably 

15 barely hear you as well. What I am looking 

16 MR. FOSTER: Okay, I have one dated the 23rd, 

17 "Grant in Respondent's Motion for Continuance of Second 

18 CR16 Conference". 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: No, I am not asking you to 

20 look at the Orders I have sent out. 

21 MR. FOSTER: Okay. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I am asking you to look at a 

23 two-page document that has a title called, "Rule 26 (f) 

2 4 Report." 

25 MR. FOSTER: Okay, I have that in front of 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 12 

1 me, Your Honor. I received it on the 30th. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, one of the things that 

3 this document does is talk about how the two of you had 

4 a conference by telephone on May 17, 2012, and that you 

5 talked about a variety of different things. On Page 

6 one of this two page document it says that you had 

7 discussed and had agreed to exchange initial discovery 

8 requests by June 25, 2012. And, that is where I want 

9 to start, because I need to know about how far along 

10 you are in your Discovery process according to this 

11 written agreement. And, because, Mr. Foster, you are 

12 Pro Se, I am not quite sure you understood, or maybe 

13 you did, maybe you didn't what Rule 26(a)1 means as it 

14 is stated in this document. So, let's talk about that 

15 first. In essence, Rule 26(a)1 talks about initial 

16 Discovery Disclosures, which do not need to be ordered 

17 by the Court. They can be agreed to by the parties, 

18 and the parties can start exchanging this type of 

19 material without any Discovery request, without any 

20 Court conference, without any Court Order at all. So, 

21 this the initial Discovery requests typically are, and 

22 I am going to list the most common one. Giving each 

23 other the address, phone number, and name of anybody 

24 you know who you think and believe has information that 

25 helps support your claims or defend your claims. And, 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 ~PAGE 13 

1 you give that information to the other side. Number 

2 two, you give to the other side a description or a copy 

3 of all documents either physical or electronically that 

4 you have in your possession, custody or control that 

5 could be used to support your claims or defenses. And, 

6 then number three, you give to the other side a 

7 computation of any and all damages or money claimed and 

8 how you arrived at those computations if you are asking 

9 for money relief of any kind in the litigation. So, 

10 starting with you, Ms. George, did you disclose those 

11 three types of information to Mr. Foster regarding your 

12 case in chief by June 25, 2012? 

13 MS. GEORGE: Not in a Rule 26(a) Disclosure, 

14 no, Your Honor. That type of information has been 

15 disclosed to Mr. Foster; however in the Agency's 

16 Witness list that we provided on the 20 ... I am sorry, 

17 27th of July. Also, we provided a breakdown of how we 

18 arrived at our Civil Penalty in our previous filings 

19 requesting a Motion for a Hearing on Sanction only, and 

20 then most recently, in the Agency's Brief in Support of 

21 our Hearing on Sanction only, when we had a very 

22 explicit discussion about how the Agency arrived at the 

23 proposed Civil Penalty in the matter. 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and so in essence, you 

25 are saying that the Witness Exchange list occurred 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 14 

1 about 

2 MS. GEORGE: It occurred three days 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You identified your 

4 Witnesses by the filing that this Court received on 

5 July 26, 2012, and that Mr. Foster may get today by 

6 mail? 

7 MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and then with the 

9 documentation, I know that there was documentation 

10 attached to 

11 MS. GEORGE: To the Agency's Discovery 

12 Request initially that was filed on June 15th, we 

.I 13 included, I believe, I am looking at them now 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You filed some documentation 

15 

16 MS. GEORGE: Yes, those are the Agency's 

17 documents that we would be using in a Hearing in this 

18 matter that we attached to our Discovery request as 

19 Exhibits for the Request for Admissions, and that was 

20 done on June 15, 2012. And, our discussion regarding 

21 the Computation of the Civil Penalty; however, although 

22 it was not done in the Rule 26(a) Disclosure Report, 

23 had been previously done in our original February 

24 Motion for Hearing on Sanction Only, and most recently, 

25 in the Agency's Brief in Support of the Hearing on 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 15 

1 Sanction Only that was filed on July 20th. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I have it received in this 

3 office on July 26, 2012, I think. 

4 MS. GEORGE: The Agency Brief in Support? 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. Let's see, if I 

6 have an earlier date than that. 

7 MS. GEORGE: It was also faxed to your office 

8 on the 20th 13-page fax. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I have it filed by fax on 

10 July 23, 2012. I think what happened is it may have 

11 been faxed after the close of the office on the 20th, 

12 and it was received by the first person coming into the 

13 office on Monday, July 23rd. 

14 MS. GEORGE: Okay. Okay. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, let's turn to you well; 

16 before I turn to Mr. Foster, so essentially, I have 

17 some material provided before June 25th 2012, and some 

18 materials provided after June 25th, 2012. 

19 MS. GEORGE: Correct. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: But, according to your 

21 position, Ms. George, as of today, July 30, 2012, you 

22 have provided all of your initial disclosures. 

23 MS. GEORGE: Yes. 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Foster, turning 

25 to you, have you provided any of the initial Disclosure 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 16 

1 information to the FAA, and if so, when? 

2 MR. FOSTER: Your Honor, we are right in the 

3 middle of the busiest time of the year for us now, and 

4 I have not I have got it written up, I have not had a 

5 chance to type it yet. As, I guess you are aware, I am 

6 a small airline owner, and I do pretty much everything 

7 myself, and I don't this time of year, I don't have a 

8 lot of spare time. I have done a lot of research, and 

9 come up with some real interesting findings, but I 

10 haven't been able to put it together yet. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well 

12 MR. FOSTER: I have received the information. 

13 I haven't really asked for any Discovery, because the 

14 information that 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I haven't asked you 

16 about that yet, we haven't even gotten there. 

17 MR. FOSTER: Okay. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I am talking about what you 

19 agreed to do with Ms. George during your May 17, 2012 

20 conference, which is reported in writing in the Report 

21 filed in my office that is entitled, "Rule 26(f) 

22 Report," do you have that in front of you right now? 

23 MR. FOSTER: I do, yes. 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, if you look at Page 1 

25 of that report at the bottom of the page entitled, 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 17 

1 "Paragraph 3," it says, and I quote, "Parties propose 

2 that the parties will exchange the Discovery 

3 Disclosures required by Rule 26(a)l by June 25, 2012." 

4 So, essentially, all we are talking about right now is 

5 those initial disclosures which are identified in 

6 general as identifying anybody that you have on your 

7 side that you think has information that is helpful to 

8 your defense, or your claim Number one. Number two, 

9 identifying any documentation that you have that helps 

10 support your claims or defenses, and giving that 

11 information to the other side. And number three, if 

12 there are money issues involved if you are requesting 

13 money for example, from the FAA, to identify 

14 specifically what you are requesting and how you get to 

15 that amount. So, I think numbers one and two are 

16 really the primary targets for you, and what I am 

17 hearing from you is that you just haven't gotten to it 

18 yet. 

19 MR. FOSTER: No, we did send them an answer 

20 to their letter, which gave them that information that 

21 we would be falling 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, when did you sent that, 

23 and do I have a copy? 

24 MR. FOSTER: It was sent on the 

25 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I am sorry, sir, I couldn't 

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~---~---~~~~~~~~~~~~-------------------

16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 18 

1 hear you. 

2 MR. FOSTER: It was sent on July 9th in 

3 answer to their letter for sanctions in which we stated 

4 that we 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I am so sorry, Mr. Foster, 

6 could you speak up, please, because I am having a hard 

7 time hearing you. 

8 MR. FOSTER: All right, we did return a 

9 letter on the 9th of July in which we that the only 

10 undisputed fact we had with the arrival of Coastal 

11 Air's Flight on October 21st, and 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I am I am going to let 

13 me just say to you, I have before me a document that is 

14 entitled, "Opposition to Hearing on Sanction Only." 

15 MR. FOSTER: That is correct, Your Honor. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, it is dated July 9, 

17 2012, and signed by you. Is that what you are 

18 referring to? 

19 MR. FOSTER: Yes, it is. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, that was received by 

21 this office on July 19, 2012; and, that is something 

22 that is a little different, actually; and we are going 

23 to be talking about that little later. Let me ask you 

24 this, since you say that you have a "bunch of things 

25 that are in hand, and you just haven't sent them out to 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 19 

1 anybody," can you tentatively identify for us today how 

2 many people you are going to call as witnesses at this 

3 hearing if the whole case goes to trial? How many 

4 people does Coastal Air Transport intend to call, and 

5 do you know who they might be? 

6 MR. FOSTER: Yes, Your Honor, we only have 

7 one witness, and we are not totally sure it is him 

8 right now. They closed his company down here on St. 

9 Croix, and I don't know how long he is going to be on 

10 the island. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Who would that be? 

12 MR. FOSTER: Alan Tattersol, he is an 

13 Engineer with the Oil Company here, and of course, they 

14 just closed our Oil Refinery down back in February, so 

15 everybody is sort of scattering after that. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and if he is someone 

17 that you were hoping to call to talk about the actual 

18 content of the material that is the subject of this 

19 violation 

20 MR. FOSTER: We have the list the contents of 

21 the material that is not in question. He was going to 

22 testify as to the characteristics of the material. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so he has some helpful 

24 testimony in your opinion about the liquid that is the 

25 subject of controversy? 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 20 

1 MR. FOSTER: Yes, that is correct, Your 

2 Honor. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Would you also be 

4 calling yourself, since you are the pilot who piloted 

5 the aircraft from one point to another, and took the 

6 material to the Customs Department? 

7 MR. FOSTER: That is correct, Your Honor. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so you have at least 

9 two witnesses. Is there anyone else that you can 

10 identify just generally that you might be thinking of 

11 calling? 

12 MR. FOSTER: I don't believe so at this time. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so let's talk a little 

14 bit then about the other type of initial discovery and 

15 that that being documentation. Are there documents 

16 that are on your desk, or in this file, that you were 

17 planning to send to Ms. George in the near future that 

18 basically support your your claims or your defenses 

19 against this violation that the FAA is asserting that 

20 Coastal committed? 

21 

22 

23 you have? 

24 

25 governing 

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MR. FOSTER: Yes, I do, Your Honor. 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: What kind of documents do 

MR. 

the 

FOSTER: We have the regulations 

shipment of hazardous material, 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 21 

1 one in question is the one that gives you the exemption 

2 for small quantities properly packaged, which has been 

3 our defense from the very beginning. It allows small 

4 quantities of flammable material to be carried on the 

5 aircraft if they have it properly packaged. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. There is an 

7 allegation by the FAA that you do not as a carrier, 

8 have any authority at all to carry hazardous material. 

9 Do you have any defense to that allegation? 

10 MR. FOSTER: Well, these regulations, they 

11 exempt it, and they don't consider it hazardous 

12 material any more in small quantities, so it does allow 

13 you to carry these items without being considered 

14 hazardous material. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

16 MR. FOSTER: And, they are small things like, 

17 nail polish remover, and butane lighters, which people 

18 regularly carry on aircrafts. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

20 MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, may I respond to 

21 that, or would you just like to reserve? 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Not yet, no. 

23 MS. GEORGE: technically, thank you. 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, in essence, Mr. Foster, 

25 it sounds to me like you have two potential witnesses, 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 22 

1 one of whom maybe actually, two of whom maybe experts 

2 since you are a pilot, and your other witness is an 

3 engineer; and, you have some legal argument based on 

4 regulations that you have read that indicate to you 

5 that you have a viable defense regarding whether or not 

6 you have the ability to carry this material, and 

7 whether or not if so, was in the exception that is 

8 listed in the Regulations which you just talked about. 

9 Would that be a fair summary of the primary defenses of 

10 Coastal Air Transport to this violation? 

11 MR. FOSTER: Yes, Your Honor. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

13 MR. FOSTER: And, there is of course, many 

14 other i terns. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, can you give me an 

16 idea of what some of the "many other i terns" might be 

17 just in general. 

18 MR. FOSTER: Well, the FAA has proposed 16 

19 items that we are in violation for, and we are 

20 contesting all but one of those. Of course, the they 

21 have provided us Attorney George has provided us with 

22 information that we were going to ask for any way, and 

23 it has got pictures of the boxes and the containers 

24 that this liquid was in, and they have proposed that 

25 these were not suitable containers, and you can see 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 23 

1 printed on the containers themselves that they are 

2 "DOT" Approved for use in this circumstance. And, one 

3 of the other things that they brought up was that the 

4 pilot was not informed that the box was in fact on the 

5 airplane, and I was the pilot, and I was also loading 

6 the aircraft, so I was well aware of what was on the 

7 aircraft. So, it is these points that are just 

8 constantly being blown down by their own witnesses, and 

9 they claim that it was carried on the flight deck, and 

10 that is again not true. I we loaded it into a cargo 

11 compartment, so it was not on the flight deck. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

13 MR. FOSTER: They say there is the 16 items; 

14 the only one that we admit to is that the flight was 

15 performed on that date. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, let's talk a 

17 little bit about that, because I have in front of me 

18 the Agency Brief in support of its Alternative Motion 

19 for Hearing on Sanction Only; and, I want to make sure 

20 that both of you have that before you before I talk a 

21 little bit about that. So, Ms. George, do you have 

22 that copy in front of you? 

23 MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Foster, do you 

25 have that, or is that one of the materials that was 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 24 

1 still in transit, in the mail? 

2 MR. FOSTER: What was the date on that, Your 

3 Honor? 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: This, the Court received on 

5 July 23rd 2012. 

6 MS. GEORGE: It was mailed to you by Express 

7 Mail, Mr. Foster, on July 20th. 

8 MR. FOSTER: July 20th, okay, we have Agency 

9 Brief, yes, we have it. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I am going to ask you 

11 both to take a look at Paragraph Page 1 and 2, so this 

12 should be fairly easy to find. And, it seems to me 

13 from looking at both the Respondent's Opposition 

14 statement and the Respondent's Answers, as well as the 

15 Agency Brief and the allegations made in the brief, 

16 that there are some undisputed facts that are in this 

17 particular case; and, it might be helpful if we just 

18 look at those undisputed facts and then go back to the 

19 issue of what is actually going to be disputed at 

20 potential trial, and what needs to be flushed out in 

21 Discovery, what can be addressed in terms of the 

22 Motions that are before the Court, and so forth. So, 

23 on Page 1 of the Agency Brief in support of its 

24 Alternative Motion for Hearing on Sanction only, the 

25 bottom three lines of the first page start with the 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 25 

1 words, "However, Respondent failed to specifically 

2 address the allegations in Paragraphs 4, 5, 8, and 9." 

3 I looked at the responses that the Respondent gave, I 

4 always double check, and in the Respondent's Motion to 

5 Dismiss, which was filed on March 23rd 2012, which the 

6 Court basically found to be an answer to the Complaint, 

7 the Respondent indicates an answer to the Complaint 

8 Number 4. It says that, "The Respondent disagreed 

9 essentially that the Customs officer discovered the 

10 shipment onboard Flight 413", instead the Respondent 

11 says in this Motion to Dismiss/Answer, that, "In fact, 

12 I carried the shipment into the Customs area for 

13 inspection." And of course, this is written and signed 

14 by you, Mr. Foster. Does that sound 

15 MR. FOSTER: Yes, that is correct, Your 

16 Honor. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. So, it appears to me 

18 that with that one change, there was a response to 

19 Paragraph 4 as we have just not.ed. The FAA is correct 

20 that there was no response by Coastal Air to the 

21 allegation in Paragraph 5, 8 and 9 in the Notice of 

22 Complaint. As a result, it seems to me that 

23 MR. FOSTER: But 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Excuse me, now let me finish 

25 so that you can hear what I am going to say. As a 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 26 

1 result, it seems to me that there are some undisputed 

2 facts that the parties don't want to fight about. 

3 Those facts being that that on or about October 21, 

4 2009, Mr. Foster was a Pilot for Coastal Air Transport, 

5 and piloted Flight 413, and basically carried a 

6 cardboard box containing allegedly hazardous materials. 

7 It also appears that there is no dispute that the box 

8 contained two plastic bags labeled, "Hazmat Pack." 

9 That the bag contained two bottles of approximately 750 

10 ml. each labeled, "Fuel Oil UN No. 1993." And, that 

11 this shipment was listed and described as the Bill of 

12 Lading, and that Mr. Foster signed the Bill of Lading, 

13 and basically piloted the plane that carried these 

14 particular materials. And, that Mr. Foster carried the 

15 shipment from the plane into the Customs area for 

16 inspection when the plane landed. None of those facts 

17 seem to be in dispute. What appears to be in dispute 

18 between the parties is a: whether the two plastic bags 

19 and the contents of the two bottles actually falls 

20 within the definition of "hazardous materials;" and 

21 whether or not if so, whether Coastal Air was qualified 

22 as a carrier to handle hazardous material, and if not, 

23 or if so, whether it complied with all of the Hazmat 

24 regulations. And, if it wasn't qualified as a carrier, 

25 and it was carrying Hazmat materials, you know, what 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 27 

1 were the extent of the violations? But, it seems to me 

2 that the general allegation of who, what and where are 

3 undisputed, and I am going to turn first to you, Ms. 

4 George, and ask you a little bit about that. Because, 

5 it seems to me that we can focus a little bit more in 

6 terms of all of the Discovery issues and the deadlines, 

7 and the Hearing itself, if we can flush out what is 

8 actually undisputed by everybody. 

9 MS. GEORGE: Okay. You are right, Your 

10 Honor, I did take another view of the Response 

11 forwarded by Mr. Foster on March 23rd, and I did miss 

12 the Paragraph 4 at the top of the second page, so I do 

13 apologize for that. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and I understand what 

15 you are saying in terms of not responding specifically 

16 to Paragraph 5, 8 and 9. 

17 MS. GEORGE: Yes. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: But, it appears to me that 

19 if you look and compare the Notice of Complaint with 

20 the Respondent's Motion to Dismiss/Answer the 

21 Respondent's Opposition and then the FAA's Brief, we 

22 actually do have some substantial undisputed facts that 

23 can lay the ground work for where the parties really 

24 want to extend their energy in discussion. So, in 

25 looking at what the Court has just identified as the 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 28 

1 what appears to be the undisputed basis of this 

2 dispute, do you have anything you would like to add, 

3 correct, or comment on, Ms. George? 

4 MS. GEORGE: No, Your Honor. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Foster, turning to 

6 you next, has the Court accurately identified at least 

7 in your Client's mind when I say, "your client," I am 

8 talking about your company, Coastal Air Transport, what 

9 the undisputed facts are? 

10 MR. FOSTER: I am looking at them, Your 

11 Honor, and the one thing that sticks out to me is the 

12 Number 6, it is the above described Non Specification 

13 by report box, and that is not correct. It was a 

14 specification box that is regularly used for shipments 

15 like this. So, was the packing material, and so were 

16 the bottles that were in there. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, you did respond to a 

18 certain extent to Paragraph Number 6 in your Motion to 

19 Dismiss/Answer. You have, "States no labels on boxes. 

20 In fact, I don't remember ever seeing a liquor box with 

21 labels." 

22 MR. FOSTER: That is correct. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, you indicate on the 

24 same page, which is Page 2 of your Motion to 

25 Dismiss/Answer, under your Answer to Paragraph 15, and 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 29 

1 I am just going to quote part of "In fact, I was the 

2 pilot that carried shipment to the aircraft, and loaded 

3 it into the cargo compartment. I was aware that these 

4 were small quantity, properly packaged samples." Does 

5 that sound familiar to you, sir? 

6 MR. FOSTER: That is correct, Your Honor. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so, it sounds to me, 

8 in essence, that the dispute is not that there was an 

9 aircraft that Coastal Air operated that made this trip, 

10 everybody agrees to that. Everybody agrees that you, 

11 Mr. Foster, were the pilot in charge, and that you were 

12 responsible for loading this cargo, that the cargo was 

13 put on the plane, and that you took the cargo off the 

14 plane and actually took it into the Custom's Inspection 

15 Department when the plane landed. 

16 MR. FOSTER: That is correct. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: What is in dispute is, 

18 whether or not the material was hazardous, and if so, 

19 whether it was properly packaged, labeled, and 

20 identified and so forth. Mr. Foster, on behalf of 

21 Coastal Air is saying that it was not hazardous 

22 material because it specifically lands within an 

23 exemption as noted by the Regulations. Ms. George, on 

24 the other hand says, "Yes, it was hazardous material, 

25 and Coastal Air violated up to 16 regulations regarding 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 30 

1 the shipment of hazardous material." That is what I 

2 see as the dispute between the parties. Starting with 

3 you, Ms. George, in general, is that what you see as 

4 well? 

5 MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Foster, turning to 

7 you next, in general, is that also what you see as the 

8 dispute? And, I understand you are going to you also 

9 dispute the money issue, but I am just talking about 

10 the facts of the alleged violation? 

11 MR. FOSTER: No, I agree, Your Honor. It 

12 depends on the point of whether the materials were, in 

13 fact, considered hazardous. I think it is part of the 

14 16 other charges that she has made, that is probably 

15 the only one that is valid. One way or the other, and 

16 that depends on how you interpret the Regulation. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well if and, let's 

18 just assume. I am just saying this as an assumption at 

19 this point. Let's assume that this material was 

20 hazardous at that point, then the FAA has the ability 

21 to cite any and every violation that it sees that 

22 happens between the time that the plane took off and 

23 the time that the plane landed with the hazardous 

24 material. And, I will be talking a little bit about 

25 that too, but the fact that there are 16 violations as 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 31 

1 opposed to one is not unusual, and the Agency does have 

2 the ability to cite multiple violations even during a 

3 single period of time. But, I think we are getting 

4 ahead of ourselves. What I can do then folks to help 

5 you in terms of setting this matter for litigation is I 

6 will issue an Order basically identifying the 

7 Undisputed Facts at this point, as we have discussed 

8 them. Then, what that means is that the FAA case and 

9 chief, and it has the burden to go first, it is 

10 narrowed into a more focused area, and it may or may 

11 not need to call all six witnesses that it just 

12 identified as potential witnesses. And, Mr. Foster, 

13 just so that you know, since you have not received that 

14 material yet from your mailbox, the FAA has identified 

15 to this Court six different people, and I am going to 

16 identify them for you now, even though you will get 

17 this material in the mail probably today or tomorrow at 

18 the latest. 

19 Number one, Juan Bulted, an FAA Special 

20 Agent; Number two, Cartice Dye, an FAA Manager 

21 overseeing the Hazardous Materials Division. Number 

22 three, Renael Steele, a U.S. Custom Agent. Number 

23 four, Omar Arroyo, a USDA Agricultural Specialist. 

24 Number five, Preston Tutein, a U.S. Custom Supervisory 

25 Officer, and Number six, Joaquin Puntonet, an FAA 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 32 

1 Safety Inspector. 

2 MR. FOSTER: What was his name again? 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It is probably because I 

4 mispronounced it, the first name is Joaquin. 

5 MS. GEORGE: Joaquin. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Joaquin, thank you, Ms. 

7 George. Joaquin Puntonet, and I will spell that. P-u8 n-t-o-n-e-t. So, the FAA has potentially six 

9 witnesses, five of whom could be deemed experts perhaps 

10 even six experts. If the FAA chooses to qualify its 

11 Atlanta Division Manager, and then Mr. Foster, you have 

12 identified two witnesses, both of whom could 

13 potentially qualify as experts. So, we are looking at 

14 a Hearing in the Virgin Islands that could last some 

15 time. I am going to turn to Ms. George first, Ms. 

16 George, let's just assume for the sake of argument that 

17 the case goes forward on all matters that are not 

18 undisputed at this point. How much time do you think 

19 you would need to call all six of your witnesses, and 

20 that would include any and all cross examination by a 

21 Pro Se Litigant? 

22 MS. GEORGE: We would probably need two days. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and Mr. Foster, 

24 looking at all of the things that you know, and 

25 assuming that you have the ability to call Mr. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 33 

1 Patterson as a witness, including and then also call 

2 yourself, how much time do you think it would take for 

3 you to put on the testimony of your own evidence, and 

4 then Mr. Patterson's? And, when you think about this, 

5 think of what how much time Ms. George might take to 

6 cross examine both of you as well. 

7 MR. FOSTER: I think she is correct, Your 

8 Honor, probably two days, because I am aware of the FAA 

9 witnesses. I have worked with them before. Also, that 

10 my witness that I am calling his name is Tattersol, T11 a-t-t-e-r-s-o-1. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you for that 

13 correction. Well, if I understood Ms. George, 

14 correctly, she was just saying it would take two days 

15 for her to put on her own case, not for you to put on 

16 yours. 

17 MS. GEORGE: That is correct. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: How much time do you think, 

19 Mr. Foster, it would take for you simply to present 

20 your two witnesses? 

21 MR. FOSTER: Probably several hours, Your 

22 Honor. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, let's just say "one 

24 day" just to be on the safe side. If we get done 

25 earlier, than one day you know, if you only take a half 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 34 

1 day, then that is fine. But, I think it might be 

2 better right now to err on the side of caution. So, 

3 folks, it looks like we are looking at reserving three 

4 days of Hearing time for us at this point in time. 

5 And, so keeping that in mind, I am going to go next to 

6 Initial Discovery. I am going to jump back into 

7 Initial Discovery. Mr. Foster, how soon can you get 

8 Mr. Tattersol's name, address, and contact number to 

9 Ms. George? That is part of your initial discovery 

10 that should have been provided by June 25, 2012. 

11 MR. FOSTER: I should be able to get that 

12 within a couple of days, Your Honor. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and you had indicated 

14 that you have seen some Regulations, how soon do you 

15 think you can write down the Citations to those 

16 Regulations and get them to Ms. George, because you 

17 want to identify for her what law you think supports 

18 your defense. 

19 MR. FOSTER: Okay, Your Honor, Ms. George has 

20 already sent me copies of the Regulations. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

22 MR. FOSTER: Which deal with this, and she 

23 has been nice enough to send me pictures of the 

24 containers, which of course I will use also as 

25 Exhibits. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 35 

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Ms. George, let me 

2 turn to you then, do you based on your communications 

3 thus far with Mr. Foster, do you need any further 

4 information from him regarding the regulations that he 

5 believes might support his defense? 

6 MS. GEORGE: I do, Your Honor. The 

7 Regulations that we actually included with our filing 

8 does not do not support the Defense that he is making, 

9 and so if he is aware of another Regulation that he is 

10 citing to, we would need for him to provide that to us. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Foster, it appears 

12 that there is a disagreement between you and Ms. George 

13 regarding the law and how to interpret it. Have you 

14 had a chance to do any kind of legal research to see 

15 whether your personal interpretation of the Regulation 

16 has also been supported by anybody, at any time either 

17 Judges that sit in this office issuing decisions about 

18 FAA cases, or by Judges who sit at the u. S. Court of 

19 Appeals who oversee and review Appeals from this 

20 office. Do you have anything to show that you have got 

21 some "bang for your buck" in terms of how you are 

22 interpreting these Regulations? 

23 MR. FOSTER: No, Your Honor, I haven't found 

24 anything like that yet. 

25 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well, that is helpful 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 36 

1 for me to know, because that will give me an idea of 

2 where to take this from here, and how to set up some 

3 things. 

4 Today is July 30, 2012, Mr. Foster, even 

5 though it is your busiest time of year, you actually do 

6 need to spend some time on this case particularly since 

7 you are not yet finished with providing Ms. George 

8 initial discovery. Can you have the name, address and 

9 phone number of Mr. Tattersol along with the Citation 

10 of the Regulation that you think really is the one that 

11 fits your Defense, faxed to Ms. George by this Friday, 

12 which is August 3, 2012? 

13 MR. FOSTER: I will try and get a hold of him 

14 this afternoon, Your Honor. I am going to be out all 

15 day the rest of the week. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, when you say, "you are 

17 going to try and get a hold of Mr. Tattersol," do you 

18 not know his address and phone number? 

19 MR. FOSTER: Well, as I said, his company has 

20 moved off the island. I spoke with him two weeks ago, 

21 and he wasn't sure where he was going or when he was 

22 going. We just had our our big oil refinery here, 

23 Hess, shut down. It has caused a big disruption, so I 

24 don't know if he is going to be available. 

25 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I am not sure that you 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 37 

1 need to confirm him as a Witness right now, all I am 

2 asking you is to give the information that you have in 

3 your Custody. Do you have a phone number, and a fax 

4 number, and a mailing address potentially for him? 

5 What do you have? How would you get a hold of him? 

6 MR. FOSTER: I have phone numbers; I don't 

7 currently have a mailing address. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I am going to direct 

9 you then to provide Ms. George with Mr. Tattersol's 

10 name, and that means that you are giving the spelling 

11 that you know for him, his title you have told us, 

12 Engineer. And, also the name of the company he used to 

13 work for, because you know all of that right now. And, 

14 then his most current contact information, and as you 

15 say right now, it is only a phone number. But, you are 

16 required to give that in writing to the other side, and 

17 then also by August 3, 2012, I want you to identify the 

18 Regulation that you think backs you up on your 

19 assertion that you are exempt from the Regulation. 

20 Even though Ms. George may have sent you a copy, you 

21 need to identify that specifically as part of your 

22 Defense. So, you just need to put the title of the 

23 Regulation, what it is that you are relying upon for 

24 the time being. That is your initial disclosure. Does 

25 that make sense to you? 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 38 

1 MR. FOSTER: Yes, it does, Your Honor. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You could do that today, 

3 before you leave the office, I think. Do you have Ms. 

4 George's fax number? 

5 MR. FOSTER: I believe we do. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Ms. George, could you give 

7 that to Mr. Foster right now so that he has it? 

8 MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. It is 4-0-4-3-

9 0-5-5-2-2-3. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Foster, do you need that 

11 repeated? 

12 MR. FOSTER: No, I have it, Your Honor. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. So, this 

14 is the Court's directive to you, Mr. Foster. On or 

15 before August 3rd 2012, you are directed to give Ms. 

16 George in writing the name, address and phone number of 

17 Mr. Tattersol, as you know it. So, if you don't know a 

18 current address, you just say "current address not 

19 known at this time." But, you give her his name; his 

20 title, where he worked, and then you give a little 

21 brief statement just like you told us on the phone 

22 today of what you think he could testify to. 

23 MR. FOSTER: Okay, Your Honor. 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: In addition, Number two, you 

25 cite the Regulation that you think is your Defense, so 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 39 

1 that she is on Notice of what you are going to be 

2 raising not only at the Hearing, but in the probably at 

3 some conferences prior to the Hearing. And, then you 

4 have an obligation after August 3rd, 2012 to supplement 

5 Mr. Tattersol's information. So let's say you call Mr. 

6 Tattersol and you talk to him on August lOth, and he 

7 says, "Oh, yes, I am now in Atlanta, Georgia, this is 

8 my address and phone number, and I would be happy to 

9 come and be your witness." Immediately after you have 

10 that phone conversation, you then notify Ms. George of 

11 your updated information for Mr. Tattersol, so that you 

12 give her the new address, the new phone number, and 

13 that Mr. Tattersol is planning to come and testify, and 

14 what he will testify to that is wonderful for you. 

15 Does that make sense? 

16 MR. FOSTER: Yes, it does, Your Honor. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, if you find that Mr. 

18 Tattersol is nowhere to be found, or that you call and 

19 talk to him and he says, "No, that is not what I could 

20 testify to, I don't think I could help you," all you 

21 need to do is say to Ms. George, "I have decided not to 

22 call Mr. Tattersol." Okay, but 

23 MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, what was the date 

24 that was supposed to be done by? 

25 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I am saying that Mr. Foster 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 40 

1 has to provide to the FAA by on or before August 3rd 

2 2012, Mr. Tattersol's name, title, contact number, and 

3 a brief statement of what he hopes Mr. Tattersol will 

4 testify to. In addition, on or before August 3, 2012, 

5 Mr. Foster is to provide to the FAA the exact citation 

6 of the Regulation that he believes will be the "be all 

7 end all" in supporting his Defense. After August 3, 

8 2012, Mr. Foster needs to continue to try and find Mr. 

9 Tattersol and find out whether or not Mr. Tattersol is 

10 available to testify, and if so, if he has anything 

11 helpful to say on behalf of Coastal Air. And, I will 

12 be giving due dates for that material deadline in just 

13 a minute. 

14 I was simply giving Mr. Foster an example of 

15 what to do after August 3rd 2012, using the date of 

16 August lOth, so that is just a hypothetical date, Ms. 

17 George. 

18 MS. GEORGE: Okay, thank you. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Foster, any 

20 questions about the initial discovery that you need to 

21 do? 

22 MR. FOSTER: Your Honor, Ms. George had quite 

23 a few other things on her list which really don't deal 

24 directly with this case. 

25 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, they do, but my 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 41 

1 question to you, sir, is do you have any other 

2 questions that you need to ask about the Initial 

3 Discovery that the Court has ordered you to provide on 

4 or before August 3rd 2012? 

5 MR. FOSTER: No, not your request. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and this isn't my 

7 request, it is my directive to you. 

8 MR. FOSTER: I understand. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Okay, so essentially, 

10 we have Initial Discovery has to be provided on or 

11 before August 3rd 2012. Now, let's talk about the 

12 General Discovery Exchange Deadline, and before talking 

13 about it, let's just talk briefly about all of the 

14 Motions that Ms. George has recently filed. Ms. George 

15 has among other things, filed an Agency Request for 

16 Discovery and Production on Documents on June 18, 2012. 

17 This included requests for production, interrogatories, 

18 and request for admission. According to the Rule 26(f) 

19 Report, the parties essentially had agreed to do 

20 follow-up discovery and provide the same to each other 

21 no later than August 2nd 2012. And that is on Page 2 

22 of the Rule 26(f) Report. As you folks know, I 

23 deferred setting any kind of Discovery deadline when we 

24 last met on June 11, 2012, because it appeared to me 

25 that you had not completed your CR26(f) discussion, 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 42 

1 which is why we are all talking today. Since filing 

2 the June 18, 2012 Discovery packet, Ms. George then 

3 filed on July 23rd 2012, the Agency Brief In Support of 

4 its Alternative Motion for Hearing on Sanction Only. 

5 It also filed the FAA filed an Agency Motion to Strike 

6 Respondent's Opposition to Hearing on Sanction Only. 

7 And, then Ms. George has filed a July 26, 2012 a 

8 variety of different documents. 

9 Let's talk first about the Request for 

10 Discovery and Production of Documents. According just, 

11 if I looked at the May 2nd 20 I am sorry the Rule 26F 

12 Report that the parties filed on May 22nd, 2012, the 

13 Request is premature if in fact the parties have until 

14 August 2nd 2012 to respond. So, Ms. George, let me ask 

15 you about that. Why would you seek on July 30th 2012 

16 orders limiting discovery when you have already agreed 

17 in an earlier writing with Mr. Foster to give him until 

18 August 2nd 2012 to respond? 

19 MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, the report that we 

20 had filed indicated that that would be the deadline for 

21 any follow-up discovery I am sorry, responses to follow 

22 up Discovery Responses. In the last pre-hearing 

23 conference that we had, it was the Agency's 

24 understanding that at the conclusion of that 

25 conference, Your Honor, had given us authority to go on 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 43 

1 and to exchange discovery between that date and July 

2 the 30th. As a result, we went on and filed our 

3 initial discovery request on June 15th. With that, it 

4 is also our understanding that in accordance with the 

5 rules of practice that the parties have 30 days to 

6 respond to those discovery requests. As a result, 

7 although we had indicated that we would have until 

8 August the 2nd for follow-up discovery responses with 

9 the opportunity to file discovery after the last pre10 hearing or scheduling confrerence and the rules of 

11 practice indicate that there are 30 days to respond to 

12 discovery from the date of service. That is why we 

13 were seeking to have those responses within 30 days of 

14 our service date. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well let's start with 

16 the June 11, 2012 Court Order, I have the June 11, 2012 

17 setting Motion Date deadline setting third CR16 

18 teleconference and granting plus denying other relief 

19 brought in front of me. Do you have that order? 

20 MS. GEORGE: I do, Your Honor. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Where in that Order can you 

22 point out to me that it says that the parties have the 

23 ability to continue exchanging Discovery according to 

24 what you just said? 

25 MS. GEORGE: It is not in that Order, 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 44 

1 however, in the transcript of that day on Page 26, Line 

2 11, there is a discussion about the Discovery Exchange 

3 would go smoothly between now, which we understand is 

4 June 11, 2012, and July 30, 2012. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, can you quote from 

6 that for me, please; because the transcripts have not 

7 been filed at this office. 

8 MS. GEORGE: Okay, it is Page 26 of the 

9 transcript of Proceedings dated June 11, 2012. July 

10 11, 2012, yes, you actually began speaking on what is 

11 Page 26, Judge Sullivan, and it continues on through 

12 Page 26, at Line 11. There the sentence begins, "But 

13 hopefully, the Discovery exchange will go smoothly and 

14 between now and July 30th 2012. We will have some 

15 additional time after that to do Discovery, so it is 

16 not as though Your Honor has a tight deadline for 

17 this." 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so I am saying it is 

19 not as though Your Honor has a tight deadline? 

20 MS. GEORGE: Yes. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I said that to you? 

' 

22 MS. GEORGE: That is what is in the 

23 transcript. 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Oh, my heavens, I am not 

25 sure the transcript is quite accurate. But, in any 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 45 

1 event, let's talk a little bit about that. 

2 MS. GEORGE: Okay. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Actually, I relied on the 

4 parties Rule 26(f) Report, which had been filed on May 

5 22nd 2012, and which was before the Court on June 11, 

6 2012, now in this Rule 26(f) Report, the parties 

7 basically told me as I am repeating today, that you had 

8 agreed to exchange initial disclosures by June 25, 

9 2012, which was after the June 11, 2012 conference; 

10 and, that you were going to engage in further discovery 

11 through August 2nd 2012, which again was after June 11, 

12 2012. There was nothing on June 11, 2012 that would 

13 prohibit the parties to continue pursuing that agreed 

14 discovery plan pending answering and filing answers 

15 according to the orders given .to you two on June 11, 

16 2012 nothing, and I am trying to assure the parties 

17 that you could continue to do discovery exchange as you 

18 had agreed and present it to a Court by your Rule 26(f) 

19 report filed on May 22nd, 2012. The June 11, 2012 

20 Order specifically notes, as I hope it is also noted in 

21 the transcript that the Rule 16 Conference was 

22 deferred, and that the parties were directed to engage 

23 in further discovery discussion this is on Page 2 of 

24 the June 11, 2012 Order, Paragraph 5. "Parties were to 

25 discuss privately the issue venue, the need for the 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 46 

1 Hearing, the time for the Hearing, the number of 

2 witnesses, the type of testimony and so forth; and that 

3 the parties would be prepared to answer those questions 

4 after discussion and discuss all other litigation 

5 matters and procedures during the July 30, 2012 third 

6 civil Rule 16 Litigation telephone conference," which 

7 we are having today. 

8 So far, what I am hearing from the parties 

9 that you did not have a chance to continue your Rules 

10 beyond 26(f)oF discussions between June 11, 2012 and 

11 today's date, but we have managed to have it today with 

12 everybody present so that we have an idea of venue, 

13 number of witnesses, time .of the hearing, place of the 

14 hearing, a little bit about what is actually at issue. 

15 Now, what the Court does is set up the Discovery Plan 

16 for the parties, and regardless of what the individual 

17 discovery rules say, there is substantial case law and 

18 rule and regulation that says that it is the Court's 

19 province to set up the Discovery Plan for the Parties 

20 and with the Parties. So, I am going to refer you, Ms. 

21 George, to a couple of different citations. If you 

22 look at and, Mr. Foster, I am referring this to you as 

23 well, although you may not have your Court Rule book 

24 right in front of you. 

25 MR. FOSTER: Yes, Your Honor. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 47 

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It essentially the parties 

2 can, once they have a Rule 26(f) conference, agree in 

3 writing to a discovery plan with discovery deadlines. 

4 There is no question about that, and 26(f) specifically 

5 talks about the Discovery plan and what should be 

6 addressed in there. It is also unquestioned that it is 

7 the Court's products under CR16 to either adopt that 

8 plan or to amend it, or to do something completely 

9 different. So, until the Court adopts the discovery 

10 plan, or until the Court issues an order indicating and 

11 regulating what the Discovery should be, it is 

12 premature for any party to start to assert that 

13 deadlines have been passed and/or that is timely for a 

14 Motion to compel, or to sanction a party for discovery 

15 violations. 

16 If you look at look at the FAA Regulations 

17 too the CR26 and CR 16, are very specific about that. 

18 CR 26(a) and (f) I think in particular are helpful. 

19 CR16, obviously is the "be all end all" in terms of the 

20 Court's authority and obligation and responsibility to 

21 help the parties generate a well-executed Discovery 

22 plan and to assist, quite frankly, when you have a 

23 party like Mr. Foster, who is brand new to the whole 

24 proceeding. If you look at 14CFR217, and Mr. Foster, 

25 for your edification, this is the Regulation under the 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 48 

1 FAA Rules about joint procedural or discovery schedule. 

2 MR. FOSTER: Okay. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: In essence, from 14CFR 

4 Section 13.217, talks about how the parties in 

5 Subsection A, "May agree to submit the discovery 

6 schedule." Parties are submitting that to the Court. 

7 Parties can agree to a variety of different things and 

8 the variety talks is addressed in Subsection D of this 

9 particular regulation. The parties can agree to the 

10 time of the motions, but it is up to the Court under 

11 Sub Section D, to approve the Joint Schedule. To sign 

12 it and to issue an order about it. It is up to the 

13 Court to resolve any disputes regarding the Discovery 

14 schedule. And then, under Subsection F, it starts to 

15 talk about Sanction if a party fails to comply with the 

16 Judge's order establishing the discovery schedule. So, 

17 until you have an Order issued by me, you don't really 

18 have the constraint of time. So, prior to between the 

19 Rule 26(f) conference and the Rule 16 conference, the 

20 parties can in any way shape or form they want start to 

21 exchange discovery. But, until the Court issues an 

22 order and a discovery plan for the parties, 

23 presumptively after the Rule 16 conference, you don't 

24 have those rule time defaults into the 30 days that you 

25 are talking about under the rules of practice, Ms. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 49 

1 George. So, I would say to you that I appreciate 

2 greatly all of the work that you have done so far in 

3 terms of trying to keep this on a very short track 

4 schedule. But, I think that your expectation that 

5 today is the day for the Court to start finding the 

6 Respondent dilatory and ordering the Respondent to 

7 finding that the Respondent has failed to address 

8 discovery in a timely way is really premature. Until 

9 this Court issues a Rule 16 Order adopting or 

10 addressing the Discovery plan, the parties the parties 

11 do not have strict deadlines to comply with, and I will 

12 simply say to you I think you have done some work that 

13 can be reserved and can be subject to renewed motion in 

14 very short order. 

15 MS. GEORGE: Okay, Your Honor, what I could I 

16 also I understand your Ruling, and I accept that. I 

17 just wanted to put in the record that starting on that 

18 Page 25, at Line 22, at the June 11th scheduling 

19 conference, there is a section where Your Honor, and I 

20 quote, "You are also welcome at this point since this 

21 is really the first litigation scheduling conference, 

22 to start exchanging general discovery according to your 

23 original plan. And general discovery would include but 

24 is not limited to, Notices of Deposition, Propounding 

25 Interrogatories, Requests for Production of Documents, 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 50 

1 the Request for Disclosure of Expert Witnesses, and any 

2 and all of those kinds of things." 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: That is correct. 

4 MS. GEORGE: That is where the Agency in its 

5 reading of that section of the transcript believed that 

6 we were within the Judge's order to go ahead and to 

7 propound the Agency's discovery. 

8 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, you are absolutely 

9 correct, you could at any time propound that, you 

10 simply could not state that you had a deadline of 30 

11 days after the date of propounding, because this Rule 

12 16 conference was deferred until today's date, which by 

13 the way, was before the August 2nd 2012 deadline that 

14 the parties had initially agreed to for exchanging that 

15 discovery. So, I am not saying to you that you 

16 couldn't have done that. I am saying to you that you 

17 could not hold the ProSe Litigant liable for not 

18 responding within 30 days of the date of propounding 

19 because the Court deferred the Rule 16 conference until 

20 today. If the Respondent had answered all of those 

21 materials within 30 days, as you had hoped, and we had 

22 all appeared today on July 30, 2012 and both parties 

23 were saying to me all of the discovery is complete, we 

24 have maintained a schedule according to our May 2012 

25 Rule 26(f) report, we are done, we don't have anything 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 51 

1 else to exchange. We are ahead of schedule, even 

2 though we had given ourselves until August 2nd 2012, I 

3 would have said, "Fine, I can adopt that schedule from 

4 the parties, because you have self regulated, you have 

5 exchanged all of your Interrogatories, you have 

6 conducted all discovery as you had hoped according to 

7 this May 2012 report. 

8 So, let's then talk about setting a hearing 

9 setting dispositive motion dates, setting a telephone 

10 conference for the dispositive motions and so forth. 

11 We can go forward on that basis. But, that is not what 

12 has happened, in fact, it is clear that neither of you 

13 complied with the May 2012 CR26 (f) Report, because you 

14 have just got your initial discovery out. The FAA just 

15 got it out completely this week. I am sorry last week, 

16 with a filing date here July 26, 2012, and the 

17 Respondent hasn't even sent to the FAA its initial 

18 discovery. That is in addition to the fact that the 

19 Respondent, who is Pro Se, hasn't responded to the 

20 FAA's June 18, 2012 general discovery request. So, 

21 this whole conference today is set up hopefully to "get 

22 the train back on the track. II Make some amendments to 

23 the parties' hopeful but as yet unrealized plan that 

24 was filed on May of 2012, and set very specific 

25 deadlines with an explanation to the Pro Se respondent 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 52 

1 about what is expected, when it is expected, why it is 

2 expected, and what is going to happen if he doesn't 

3 follow through which hasn't happened up until this 

4 time. So, I would agree, and I don't dispute what you 

5 have just quoted to me from the transcript, which alas, 

6 this Court does not have before it, but it does not in 

7 any way shape or form assert from this Court, or from 

8 the rules in general, that you can bypass the Court's 

9 ability to regulate the Discovery for both parties. 

10 So, again, I would say to you, I appreciate all of the 

11 work that you have done. You won't have to redo it in 

12 my opinion, because it has been filed. I simply think 

13 that the deadlines need to be addressed by this Court 

14 before you can argue for compliance from the 

15 Respondent. So, any questions about that, Ms. George? 

16 MS. GEORGE: No, Your Honor. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Foster, any 

18 questions from you? 

19 MR. FOSTER: No, Your Honor. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then again, Mr. 

21 Foster, you are obligated by this Court's directive to 

22 comply with giving Ms. George initial discovery as we 

23 have discussed already on or before August 2nd, excuse 

24 me, August 3, 2012. Now, let's talk about General 

25 discovery exchange, which is different from initial 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 53 

1 discovery exchange. And, general discovery exchange is 

2 one the things that the Court does have the ability to 

3 direct and regulate, unlike the initial discovery under 

4 26(a)1. So, Ms. George, you have already served upon 

5 the Respondent the Discovery Requests, which include 

6 the requests for admission, the interrogatories, and 

7 the request for production, are you planning to move to 

8 depose either Mr. Foster, or potentially Mr. Tattersol 

9 are you planning to do any other kinds of discovery 

10 requests that you know about at this point under a 

11 general discovery directive? 

12 MS. GEORGE: No, Your Honor. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Mr. Foster, let's 

14 turn to you, sir. I will be issuing an order on 

15 Discovery and setting up the litigation at,the end of 

16 today's conference. This will include setting hearing 

17 dates, and other such dates. You have in your 

18 possession, and have had in your possession since June 

19 2012 the FAA's Request for Discovery of Production of 

20 Documents. Typically, unless the Court orders 

21 otherwise, you have an obligation to respond within 30 

22 days of getting the request for production and the 

23 Interrogatory. Typically, you have to respond within 

24 15 days for the request for admission, but because Ms. 

25 George lumped them all together and said, essentially, 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 54 

1 you have 30 days to respond, the Court is not going to 

2 interfere with that. Is there some reason in your 

3 opinion that you have not responded to any of this 

4 material since you received it in June? 

5 MR. FOSTER: Just the work load I have been 

6 under, Your Honor. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well, I am going to 

8 give you 30 days from August 3rd, to respond to that 

9 material. And, that means I am going to look at my 

10 calendar, with the Labor Day Holiday inserted in that, 

11 I am going to give you until September 7th, 2012, to 

12 respond to all of those things. And, that means that 

13 you need to have that filed, and it should be post 

14 marked no later than September 7th if if you want to be 

15 careful, I would recommend that you do it sooner than 

16 September 7, 2012, because one never knows what comes 

17 up on a daily basis. And, you don't want to be waiting 

18 until the last minute, and then finding that you can't 

19 get it done in time. The reason I say, you don't want 

20 to be waiting until the last minute, because Ms. George 

21 has already filed a Motion to Deem Request for 

22 Admissions granted, and a Motion to Compel Responses. 

23 She has got all of her work done already, and you have 

24 all of yours yet to do. Now, do you have in front of 

25 you the FAA's Motion or Request for Production, do you 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 55 

1 have that in front of you? 

2 MR. FOSTER: Yes, I do, Your Honor. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. You need to read that 

4 very carefully. The request for production identify 

5 each question and each material piece of evidence that 

6 Ms. George wants you to respond to, and you have to 

7 respond to that, or give a good explanation as to why 

8 you can't. In the interrogatories, you have to respond 

9 to those questions, and you have to be specific. This 

10 takes time, and I know you say you don't have a lot of 

11 time; you need to find the time, or find someone to 

12 help you because, when you don't answer these 

13 questions, Ms. George can ask me, as she has already 

14 done in her Motion, to find that you have admitted all 

15 of this to your detriment. And, I am actually quite a 

16 stickler for the rules. I think they are there for a 

17 good reason, and so when people fail to respond, if 

18 they find other things that are more important in their 

19 life, that is fine. That is a choice you make, then 

20 that means that the work that Ms. George does, should 

21 also be granted some relief. Now, take a look at Page 

22 3 of the FAA's Request for Discovery, and there you see 

23 Requests for Admission, and Ms. George has identified 

24 19 different questions that she wants you to admit or 

25 deny. You need to respond to those, because if you 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 56 

1 don't, Ms. George has a right to ask me to find that 

2 you have admitted all of them; and if I make that 

3 finding, your case is basically literally finished with 

4 the exception of the Sanction. So, be very, very 

5 diligent about responding to all of this on or before 

6 September 7, 2012. If you need help, you are welcome 

7 to get someone to help you. Sometimes if you have a 

8 partner in a business, or a friend, a spouse, anybody 

9 who can sit down with you and make sure that you are 

10 answering these questions well, thoroughly, and 

11 accurately. Do you have any questions about the 

12 Court's directive regarding this? 

13 MR. FOSTER: No, Your Honor. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, let's talk then about 

15 your request for discovery, Mr. Foster, do you have any 

16 requests that you would like to make of Ms. George for 

17 discovery, or do you have pretty much all of her files? 

18 MR. FOSTER: I have her file, I think I have 

19 got pretty good shape right now. I might want to 

20 question several of the witnesses before the trial 

21 date. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: You have the ability to call 

23 them all up according to the witness list Ms. George 

24 has provided. She has not provided a phone number, but 

25 she should make her witnesses available to you if you 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 57 

1 need to talk to them. 

2 MR. FOSTER: Okay, it is probably in her 

3 documentation that has been sent down here already. 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, in the witness list 

5 that I have that was filed with this office on July 26, 

6 2012, there are no phone numbers for any of these 

7 witnesses. But, if you need to talk to any of them, 

8 typically, what you will want to do is call Ms. George 

9 and ask her to set up a time for you to call and talk 

10 to them. 

11 MR. FOSTER: Sure. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: If you want to talk to them 

13 on the record, you have the obligation to hire a Court 

14 Reporter and set up a time for a Court Reported 

15 Deposition. That is much more expensive, but people do 

16 it sometimes if they think that a witness might change 

17 their testimony between the time that you talk to them 

18 informally before the Hearing and the time they are 

19 called for the Hearing. If you take depositions, I 

20 would recommend that you consider hiring counsel, 

21 because it is difficult to set up for someone who 

22 doesn't know anything about it, and it is expensive, 

23 and you might as well spend the money wisely. What I 

24 am going to do is, I am going to set a due date for you 

25 to tell Ms. George if you need general discovery, which 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 58 

1 would include talking to her witnesses. I want you to 

2 tell Ms. George by get my calendar again, August 8th, 

3 2012 about any requests that you have, including any 

4 requests that you might want to make regarding 

5 contacting one or more of the witnesses to talk to them 

6 informally. And just so that you know since you are on 

7 your own behalf, these kinds of conversations are 

8 simply for information gathering. You don't want to 

9 get into a position of arguing with somebody, or 

10 attacking them in any way, or making comments about 

11 whether you like what they say or not, those are not 

12 things that are allowed during these telephone calls. 

13 The telephone call is usually, you know, what do you 

14 know? How do you know it? When did you know it? Why 

15 do you know it? That kind of thing. If you choose to 

16 do that. Does that make sense to you? 

17 MR. FOSTER: Yes, it does. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you very much. 

19 So, you have until August 8, 2012 to notify Ms. George 

20 if you want something from her in Discovery, and then 

21 between August 8th 2012 and September 7th 2012, that is 

22 the deadline for the two of you to be exchanging 

23 discovery materials that are general in nature. So, 

24 between August 8th 2012 and September 7, 2012, Mr. 

25 Foster, if you have notified Ms. George on or before 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 59 

1 August 8, 2012 that you want to talk to somebody that 

2 is on her witness list, then between August 8, 2012 and 

3 September 7, 2012 is when you set up those telephone 

4 conferences, and talk to those people. Does that make 

5 sense? 

6 MR. FOSTER: Yes, it does. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and then you are also 

8 under the gun, essentially, to provide all of your 

9 written responses to Ms. George's discovery requests on 

10 or before September 7, 2012. 

11 Now, let's talk about the Motion to Compel, 

12 and the Motion to Deem Allegations Admitted. I am 

13 going to take a look, Ms. George, at your Motion to 

14 Deem Allegations Admitted. I think I may issue a 

15 separate directive on that. Given the fact that there 

16 are some undisputed facts right now that the parties 

17 have agreed to, I am going to see if I can narrow that 

18 down, and determine if, in fact, anything more needs to 

19 be addressed on that. In terms of the Motion to 

20 Compel, if after September 7, 2012, Mr. Foster has 

21 failed to respond to the request for production, I 

22 already have your Motion to Compel, and I would simply 

23 ask you, Ms. George, to notify me, and I am going to 

24 give you a potential time, and then you can tell me if 

25 it is going to work for you. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 60 

1 MS. GEORGE: Okay. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: On or before September 12, 

3 that you are renewing your Motion to Compel, with 

4 simply a statement that you haven't gotten A, B and C. 

5 So, it could be a very, very, very short Motion. You 

6 don't have to repeat or refile what you have already 

7 filed, just simply a supplement to it, asking the Court 

8 to trigger that. Does that make sense? 

9 MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, would September 14, 

11 2012 be enough time? 

12 MS. GEORGE: Yes. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so noted. Mr. Foster, 

14 if there is a Motion to Renew the Motion to Compel that 

15 is filed by the FAA on or before September 14, 2012, I 

16 am going to give you an opportunity to respond in 

17 writing to that on or before September 28, and I am 

18 going to put all of these dates in writing and send 

19 them out to both of you. But, essentially, if you fail 

20 to respond to those discovery requests, you are going 

21 to see Ms. George saying well, since he didn't respond, 

22 I want the relief that I asked for, which is in part, 

23 that you find that these violations occurred, and then 

24 because she is making that Motion, then you have a 

25 right to respond, and I am going to give you until 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 61 

1 September 28, 2012 to do it, if in fact, you know, 

2 there is a problem. And, in that response, then you 

3 basically set out in writing why you shouldn't be held 

4 accountable for not responding. And, then Ms. George, 

5 I am going to ask you to file a reply, if any, by 

6 October 12, 2012. And, folks, I think what I am going 

7 to do is ask you to take a look at your calendars, and 

8 I am going to set up a telephone conference. And, we 

9 can call this an Oral Argument on the Motion to Compel, 

10 just in case, and if there is no Motion to Compel, if 

11 everything is great, we can convert this to a 

12 Prehearing Status Conference. 

13 Ms. George, looking at your calendar, and I 

14 have got to open up my computer schedule, shortly after 

15 October 12, 2012, do you have time the week of October 

16 21st for a one-hour telephone conference? 

17 MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor, right now my 

18 schedule is open. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Foster, how about 

20 you? 

21 MR. FOSTER: October 21st. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, that is a Sunday, and 

23 much as I like to work, I generally take Sunday's off. 

24 MR. FOSTER: Okay, I am sorry, what was the 

25 date, Your Honor? 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 62 

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: This is the week of October 

2 21st, 2012, so let's look for example, on Monday, 

3 Tuesday or Wednesday of that week, which would be 

4 October 22nd, 2012, October 23rd, 2012, or October 

5 24th, 2012; do you have time during those three days 

6 for a one-hour conference? 

7 MR. FOSTER: 22nd and 23rd would be fine. As 

8 I have said before, Wednesday's are flying days for me. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, do you have a 

10 preference in terms of morning or afternoon? 

11 MR. FOSTER: It doesn't matter to me. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Ms. George, do you have a 

13 preference? 

14 MS. GEORGE: Morning, Your Honor. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, why don't we say 10 

16 o'clock on October 23rd, 2012. 

17 MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, on the Tuesday's of 

18 each week we have a scheduled meeting at 10 a.m., is it 

19 possible to do it at 10:30? 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Sure. 

21 MS. GEORGE: Okay. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: 10:30 a.m. to 11:30 a.m. on 

23 October 23rd, 2012, we will have either Oral Argument 

24 on a Renewed Motion to Compel, or a Prehearing Status 

25 conference to see how things are going with everybody. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 63 

1 In terms of Dispositive Motions, we have a 

2 Motion for Hearing on Sanction only; there is also a 

3 Motion to Strike the Respondent's Opposition Statement. 

4 Ms. George, let me ask you a question about that. 

5 MS. GEORGE: Yes, Your Honor. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: It appeared to me as I 

7 looked at your materials, that you were asserting that 

8 the postmark on the material mailed to you from the 

9 Virgin Islands was postmarked July 13, 2012. 

10 MS. GEORGE: Yes, You're Honor. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, that was as I 

12 understand it from your argument 

13 MS. GEORGE: Before that date that you had 

14 set for a response from the Respondent. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Correct. When I look at the 

16 rules, the rules under the FAA regulation allow for 

17 five days to be added when something is mailed, and I 

18 am wondering if you can explain to me why I should not 

19 be considering that rule under the FAA Regulation. 

20 MS. GEORGE: My understanding of the 

21 Regulation of the mailing rule is that it does not 

22 extend the date that it is due, but it gives you five 

23 additional days for receipt by the party that it is 

24 mailed to. In the Motion to Strike, I indicated that 

25 the FAA, in fact, it was postmarked on the 13th, and 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 64 

1 not received by the Agency until I believe it was the 

2 17th I am looking for my copy of my Motion as we speak. 

3 That being said, although there is a mailing rule that 

4 would give you additional time for receipt by the 

5 party, I don't believe that the rule in fact gives you 

6 additional time to serve the document. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: I have here, I am going to 

8 quote it to you, it is 14CFR Section 13.211 Subsection 

9 D, Date of Service, "The date of service shall be the 

10 date of personal delivery or if mailed, mail in date 

11 shown on the Certificate of Service, the date shown on 

12 the postmark if there is no certificate of service." 

13 So, essentially, you are asserting to me that the 

14 postmark date is in and of itself proof that the 

15 response was late. 

16 MS. GEORGE: Yes, You're Honor. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Foster, let's talk to 

18 you next. There was an order issued on June 11, 2012 

19 that directed you to file a response no later than July 

20 9, 2012, and according to Ms. George you filed it late. 

21 She is asking the Court to toss out your Opposition 

22 statement because it was filed four days late. Do you 

23 have any response to that Motion? 

24 MR. FOSTER: Your Honor, only that it was it 

25 was given to the one of my office girls on the 9th to 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 65 

1 mail, and she didn't realize that it had to go in the 

2 next day, and she had some problems, so it probably did 

3 get dropped in the box the night before the 13th, and 

4 got post-marked the 13th. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, if it was supposed to 

6 be on my desk by July 9th, can you explain why it took 

7 you until the 13th to mail it? 

8 MR. FOSTER: Okay, I was not aware that that 

9 was the circumstances, Your Honor. I guess in response 

10 to that, I just can see your Order, now this is back 

11 from January 4th, and it wasn't received here until 

12 June 18th. And, that is postmarked January 4th, but it 

13 is from a postage meter, so I don't know if that was 

14 metered in your office and wasn't mailed, or if it was 

15 mailed, somehow it got lost in the mail. But, I was 

16 going to send a copy of that with my next pleading. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay and why are you talking 

18 about something that I sent to you in January, 2012? 

19 MR. FOSTER: I think that was one I missed, 

20 and I just received it in June. It took six months to 

21 get here. It was received on June 18th, it was mailed 

22 January 4th. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so there are some 

24 irregularities apparently with the U.S. Mail service to 

25 and from the Virgin Islands? 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 66 

1 MR. FOSTER: I don't know that, or if it was 

2 never mailed in the first place. Like I say, this was 

3 a postage meter mark on the envelope versus a post 

4 office stamp on the stamp, so there is no way of 

5 knowing when it was sent actually, put in the post 

6 office. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you 

8 MR. FOSTER: Because the order set in the 

9 Rule 16 Litigation Scheduling Conference and directing 

10 Rule 26(f)1 submission, and it was served on January 

11 4th, which is what the postage meter says. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, let me go back to the 

13 real issue in my opinion, which is what you do, and 

14 what you have control over. 

15 MR. FOSTER: Okay. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Regardless of what the U.S. 

17 Post office is or is not doing in the Virgin Islands, 

18 and obviously there may be a question about that, the 

19 question is, what you did in your office, you comply 

20 with an order that required you to have something off 

21 your desk and in the U.S. mail and faxed ideally to the 

22 parties on or before July 9, 2012. And, it sounds to 

23 me like you don't have any explanation for that other 

24 than somebody in your office may not have jumped on 

25 this like it should have been jumped on. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 67 

1 MR. FOSTER: That is correct, Your Honor. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: In the future, sir, let me 

3 emphasize to you that the deadlines that are given to 

4 you are bright line deadlines, so you want to not only 

5 try and meet the deadline, you want to try and meet it 

6 early to avoid these kinds of problems. The law is a 

7 very traditional practice, and it has lots of rules and 

8 regulations that can seem overwhelming, but the one 

9 thing that you do have control over, and that you have 

10 absolute ability to control is when you respond. So, 

11 if you see a deadline that says, "July 9, 2012," I 

12 would respond early, if I were you, and then you will 

13 know that you have always made your deadlines and made 

14 them correctly. If you have problems with the U.S. 

15 mail as you have asserted, then you should back up your 

16 filing with fax service. You know Ms. George's fax 

17 number, you know this Court's fax number, faxes are 

18 typically instantaneous, amazingly enough, we have that 

19 kind of technology today. If your fax breaks down as 

20 you have mentioned earlier today, you were having 

21 difficulty with your fax machine, then there are other 

22 ways to address mail as well. I am not quite sure of 

23 all of the services on your island, but typically 

24 people have FedEx opportunities, they have all kinds of 

25 different ways of getting things out and on time. So, 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 68 

1 if you are having continued problems with your office 

2 staff, with the U.S. Postmaster on the Virgin Islands, 

3 and/or with your fax machine, you might want to also 

4 consider certified mail with the Post Office, using a 

5 FedEx service, or even asking for assistance from a 

6 messenger service. These deadlines are meaningful 

7 because if you don't make them, you can lose on very 

8 important matters in your defense. Ms. George has a 

9 right to rely upon the Court to exercise its 

10 responsibility to hold you accountable, and the Court 

11 will do so. 

12 MR. FOSTER: Your Honor, Ms. George had 

13 mentioned that, or maybe it was you the five-days for 

14 delivery. Now, when you put a deadline on it, you 

15 mentioned that is the day that it needs to be in your 

16 office, and then they came out with the five day 

17 delivery date in addition to that. Which is it? 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Typically, when you are 

19 talking about serving each other, there is a service 

20 there is a flexibility with service by U.S. mail that 

21 gives you five days from the date it is set as post 

22 marked. And, the rule for that is, that it I just had 

23 it, I have to open it up again, 14 CFR Section 13.211, 

2 4 Subsection D. It says, "Service on the hearing docket 

25 and other parties." Okay? When I set a filing date to 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 69 

1 be filed with the Office of Hearings, that is a filing 

2 date, and I am talking about that it should be on my 

3 desk. Filing with the Court. Does that make sense? 

4 MR. FOSTER: From down here, the only way I 

5 can do that would be fax. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, then I would recommend 

7 that you both serve by mail and also serve by fax. So, 

8 that you can assure yourself that you are meeting those 

9 deadlines, and that way you will avoid all of these 

10 kinds of motions that say Mr. Foster has failed to ring 

11 the bell on time don't let him back in the room 

12 essentially, I mean that is a very simplified way of 

13 saying that is what these motions are. And, in terms 

14 of your Certificate of Service, Ms. George brought up a 

15 very important point that your Certificate of Service 

16 is a little deficit. You basically took a Certificate 

17 of Service that I utilized and you didn't change it at 

18 all, you just attached it to your document. Do you 

19 remember doing that? 

20 MR. FOSTER: That is correct. 

21 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, that actually doesn't 

22 work quite perfectly, because when I serve the parties, 

23 I have a service date stamped on the first page of my 

24 Order, and basically, my office staff serves those. 

25 And, because I am the Court, because I am the Judge, I 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 70 

1 have a little bit of a different rule for how I serve 

2 people. Because you are a Party, you have to identify 

3 who has mailed or faxed your document and what date it 

4 has been mailed or faxed. That is why it is helpful to 

5 look at the FAA's service documents, and if you look at 

6 it, you will see that it identified the person, their 

7 name they sign off on it, and they say what date that 

8 they served document. You want to do that as well. 

9 You want to have somebody, if it is not you, one of 

10 your office staff, signing and dating your Certificate 

11 of Service for the same date that they actually put it 

12 in the mail or fax it. Does that make sense? 

13 MR. FOSTER: Yes. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then I will hold you 

15 to that, and I can I can give you again the same that 

16 Regulation tells you exactly that that is what you have 

17 to do. So, let's talk then really briefly about and, I 

18 will do this, Ms. George, and I apologize for skipping 

19 around, I will respectfully deny your Motion to Strike, 

20 and I do this because we have a Pro Se Litigant who is 

21 not an expert in these matters, who substantially 

22 complied with the filing date. Four days is not 

23 onerous in terms of a delay and it has not created 

24 prejudice to your case that I can see. I will, 

25 however, note that Mr. Foster is on specific notice 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 71 

1 now about the importance of these filing dates, and 

2 absent any good cause shown in the future, I will hold 

3 him to these filing dates. 

4 Let's talk then about a time for Dispositive 

5 Motion. I am going to basically consider the Motion 

6 for a Hearing on Sanction only, and issue a Ruling on 

7 that it appears to me there has been some affirmative 

8 statements about that at this point. I do, however, 

9 think it is very important for us to address the legal 

10 arguments, and so since we already have a Motion 

11 conference date set up for October 23rd, 2012, I am 

12 going to simply note that that is going to be not only 

13 used for Potential Renewed Arguments regarding a Motion 

14 to Compel, but also I am going to ask the parties if 

15 the matter hasn't been resolved by then, to have some 

16 argument regarding the legal issue. That means, Mr. 

17 Foster, you have some time to develop your argument on 

18 the law that you say it supports your affirmative 

19 defense that you are exempt from the hazardous material 

20 regulation. And, I want you to file your written 

21 response to the FAA's motion prior to October 23rd 

22 2012. And, I would like you to do that on or before 

23 October 12, 2012. So, if you do your research and you 

24 find some case law or decisions by this Agency, Judges, 

25 or decisions by an FAA Administrator or by anybody else 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 72 

1 that supports your interpretation of the Regulations, 

2 then you file your responsive materials on or before 

3 October 12, 2012 about that. And, then I will hear 

4 oral argument about it on October 23rd 2012. Does that 

5 make sense? 

6 MR. FOSTER: Yes, it does, Your Honor. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. And, then let's talk 

8 about a final witness exchange list, and then the 

9 Hearing Date. 1We have Motion on October 12 I am sorry, 

10 I am hearing on that Argument on October 23rd 2012. 

11 Are we looking at potentially having a Hearing in 

12 November, December or January, and I am going to turn 

13 to you first, Ms. George. We are talking about three 

14 days. 

15 MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, that would be fine, 

16 the only thing that I did want the Court to take notice 

17 of is that Hurricane Season usually is at the end of 

18 the calendar year, and that might pose some 

19 difficulties for us with unknown weather disturbances, 

20 that we might want to be conscious of in setting the 

21 date. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When do you think it would 

23 be better? 

24 MS. GEORGE: Mr. Foster, since you actually 

25 live in the Virgin Islands, when would Hurricane Season 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 73 

1 officially be over? 

2 MR. FOSTER: Typically 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, I will note I am sorry 

4 Don't talk to each other without the Court's 

5 permission, so I will 

6 MS. GEORGE: I am sorry, Your Honor. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, I will now address the 

8 question to Mr. Foster. Mr. Foster, you are welcome to 

9 respond to the Court on that. 

10 MR. FOSTER: It is generally over the end of 

11 October, beginning of November, I forget the exact 

12 date. 

13 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, Mr. Foster, you are 

14 saying that by December, essentially, Hurricane Season 

15 is over? 

16 MR. FOSTER: That is correct. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well, let's take a 

18 look at our December/January calendars. Ms. George, 

19 starting with you, do you have time available in 

20 December of January that you would want to talk about? 

21 MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, I at this time don't 

22 have anything that would pose a conflict in December or 

23 January of 2013. 

24 

25 

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JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have a preference? 

MS. GEORGE: The preference would be 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 74 

1 December. 

2 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Foster, how about 

3 you? 

4 MR. FOSTER: That would be fine, Your Honor, 

5 December. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, let's see if I have 

7 December. I have I may not have anything in December. 

8 I have some cases already set up in December. And, so 

9 the only week I have would be the week of Christmas, 

10 which doesn't work. So, how about how about the week 

11 of January 7th; Ms. George, starting with you? 

12 MS. GEORGE: Just give me one second, Your 

13 Honor, I am looking for the January calendar. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. 

15 MS. GEORGE: I don't believe there is a 

16 conflict, Your Honor, and I am going to say that there 

17 isn't, because I cannot locate the 2013 calendar right 

18 now. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you need a minute, would 

20 that help? 

21 MS. GEORGE: I am actually wondering if we 

22 have received the 2013 calendar, so let's just go on 

23 and set that, and that should be fine. I don't have 

24 anything on the calendar I know that is set for 

25 hearings, so that would be fine. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 75 

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Foster, how about you, 

2 is the week of January 7th good? 

3 MR. FOSTER: Your Honor, that is after the 

4 Christmas holidays, I we are very busy up until about 

5 the middle of the month. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: When you say that, does that 

7 mean that is not a good week for you? 

8 MR. FOSTER: Not a good week, no, after the 

9 15th it slows down. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, how about the week of 

11 January I have got to make sure I have got this how 

12 about the week of January 28th through February 1; Ms. 

13 George? 

14 MS. GEORGE: That would be fine, Your Honor. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Foster, how about 

16 you? 

17 MR. FOSTER: That would be fine, Your Honor. 

18 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then we will plan on 

19 having the hearing on Tuesday, January 29th, Wednesday, 

20 January 30th, and Thursday, January 31, and then 

21 January 28th, and February 1 will be travel days for 

22 anybody coming in and out. Mr. Foster, in terms of 

23 airplanes coming in and out of the Virgin Islands, I 

24 know that you have the Coastal Air Transport, are there 

25 other airlines that come in and out of the Virgin 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 76 

1 Islands? 

2 MR. FOSTER: We have American, Jet Blue. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, so 

4 MR. FOSTER: Delta is currently coming in, 

5 but they are talking about pulling out by the end of 

6 the year. 

7 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and then in terms of 

8 court facilities, do you have any kind of Federal Court 

9 facilities on the Virgin Islands? Do you have a Tax 

10 Court, a Bankruptcy Court, a District Court, any of 

11 those things? 

12 MR. FOSTER: We have our Superior Court, 

13 which I believe is the Federal Court, and we have the 

14 local court. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you. That is 

16 enough for me. I will put my staff on getting a court 

17 room. Okay, with that, let me ask you, Ms. George 

18 well, let me suggest this folks, if there any other 

19 kinds of problems with discovery based on the deadlines 

20 I give you, if you need the Court's assistance in any 

21 way, shape or form, I want you to file your Motion 

22 within ten days of finding out the problem so that we 

23 can keep on track. And, I will put this in the 

24 Litigation order that I am going to be sending out to 

25 you. In 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 77 

1 problem, who wants the Court's attention and time, 

2 movement should be contacting the other side, getting 

3 three potential dates for a conference time, and then 

4 calling my office staff to put it on my calendar right 

5 away, so that we can get going on things. There will 

6 be information in this particular Order about bringing 

7 Exhibits to the Hearing and how to identify them. We 

8 can also go through that on in the October telephone 

9 conference. I have not put down any particular date 

10 yet for an exchange of Witness lists, and Exhibits, and 

11 I need to do that now. So, Ms. George, let me ask you 

12 this, in terms of Witness identification and Exchange 

13 of Exhibits, what date do you think would be workable 

14 prior to the currently set Hearing time? 

15 MS. GEORGE: Your Honor, I would actually say 

16 at the beginning of December. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and do you have a 

18 specific date in mind? 

19 MS. GEORGE: The week of December the 3rd. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Foster, is that 

21 acceptable to you? 

22 MR. FOSTER: That is acceptable, Your Honor. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I will put down, 

24 December 5, 2012, as the due date for the Exchange of 

25 Witness List of Witnesses and Exhibits, so that you 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 78 

1 will all have plenty of time, and then I ... I am 

2 sorry, Sir? 

3 MR. FOSTER: December 12th, I am sorry? 

4 JUDGE SULLIVAN: No, December 5. 

5 MR. FOSTER: December 5? 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Yes. And, then why don't I 

7 give you both a due date for a Filing a Prehearing 

8 Brief, if you want. I will just put January 11, 2013, 

9 that doesn't mean you have to wait until January 11, 

10 2013, if you want to file it on December 14th, you can, 

11 but that just gives you time to file something if you 

12 want. 

13 Starting with you, Ms. George, I know we have 

14 taken almost well, a little over two hours, and I 

15 apologize for the length of this conference, but we had 

16 

17 MS. GEORGE: No apology necessary, Your 

18 Honor. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: We had lots of things to 

20 cover, do you have anything else that you would like to 

21 add, correct, or discuss today in today's proceeding? 

22 MS. GEORGE: No, Your Honor. 

23 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Foster, on behalf of 

24 your Company, anything you would like to add, correct, 

25 ask questions about or discuss about today's 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 79 

1 proceedings or what we have set up here today? 

2 MR. FOSTER: No, Your Honor. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then I will look 

4 forward to seeing you all in January, assuming that the 

5 case goes to trial. I will also look forward to 

6 talking with you all at the conference currently set on 

7 October 23rd 2012 at 10:30 Eastern Time; and, getting 

8 any and all other materials from you, if needed, prior 

9 to that particular conference. 

10 Folks, and Mr. Foster, I say this to 

11 everybody, and so I am just saying that to you ahead of 

12 time, Good luck with your negotiations, of course, 

13 during this proceeding even though you are preparing 

14 for the Hearing, you still have every every ability to 

15 continue to talk about settlement if that is what you 

16 so choose. 

17 With that, I thank you both very much for 

18 your time and attention. It appears our business is 

19 complete. I will be sending out two different Orders 

20 addressing all of the matters that we have covered here 

21 today, and you should get those within the next few 

22 days. With that, we can go off the record, and I wish 

23 you both a good day. Thank you so much. 

24 MS. GEORGE: Have a nice day. 

25 MR. FOSTER: Thank you. 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 80 

1 

2 3:39p.m.) 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 81 

1 CAPTION 

2 

3 The foregoing matter was taken on the date, and at the 

4 and place set out on the Title page hereof. 

5 

6 It was requested that the matter be taken by the 

7 and that the same be reduced to typewritten form. 

8 

9 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

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18 

19 

20 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 82 

1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 

2 COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA AT LARGE: 

3 I hereby certify that I am a Notary Public for 

4 

the State of Virginia at Large, and hereby certify 

5 

that the foregoing constitutes a true and accurate 

6 

transcript to the best of their ability. 

7 

8 

9 

Further, this is to certify that I am not an 

10 employee of nor related to any of the parties, and I 

11 have no financial interest in the outcome of this 

12 matter. 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 JACOB MACE 

18 

COURT REPORTER / NOTARY 

NOTARY REGISTRATION NUMBER: 7508361 

19 My Commission Expires: September 30, 2015 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 83 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS , IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 84 

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ThE Reporters Group 

Stephenson, VA 

www.reportersgrQYR~ 

COURl: County ~ EPORTERS.tnc. 

Videography ~itlgatlon Technology 

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& litigation Technology 

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Corporate: Historic Jordan Springs t 1160 Jordan Springs Road t Stephenson, VA 22656 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 85 

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The Reporters Group ccoountuy RT~EPORTERS Court Reporting. Video 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 

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The Reporters Group ccoountuy RT~' EPORTERS Court Reporting, Video 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 87 

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The Reporters Group CQlJR'[~EPORTERS Court Reporting, Video 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 88 

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The Reporters Group 

Stephenson. VA 

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COURl: County ~ EPORTERS,,nc. 

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Corporate: Historic Jordan Springs t 1160 Jordan Springs Road t Stephenson, VA 22656 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 89 

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The Reporters Group CQURl: County rli ~· AEPQRTERS, Inc. Court Reporting, Video 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 90 

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ThE Reporters Group ccoountuy R-rr{iePORTERS Court Reporting. Video 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 91 

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The Reporters Group CcoQuntUy RT~· EPORTERS Court Reporting. Video 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 92 

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Stephenson, VA ~ & Litigation Technology 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 93 

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Corporate: Historic Jordan Springs t 1160 Jordan Springs Road t Stephenson, VA 22656 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 94 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS 1 IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 95 

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The Reporters Group CcoOuntUy R.,.~EPORTERS Court Reporting. Video 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 96 

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Stephenson. VA 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 97 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 98 

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The Reporters Group 

Stephenson, VA 

.~repo.rtersg~Q.YP..com 

County ~ COURT: ~EPQRTERS. Inc. 

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Court Reporting, Video 

& litigation Technology 

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Corporate: Historic Jordan Springs t 1160 Jordan Springs Road t Stephenson, VA 22656 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 99 

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The Reporters Group ccoountuy RT~EPORTERS Court Reporting, Video 

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Corporate: Historic Jordan Springs i 1160 Jordan Springs Road i Stephenson, VA 22656 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS , IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 100 

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The Reporters Group CQU County R"J: ~ 1 AEPORTERS, Inc. Court Reporting. Video 

Stephenson, VA ~ & litigation Technology 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 101 

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The Reporters Group ccoountuy RT~EPORTERS Court Reporting. Video 

Stephenson, VA · 1, ~ • Inc. & litigation Technology 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS , IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 102 

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The Reporters Group couy R-r~· EPORTERS Court Reporting. Video 

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Corporate: Historic Jordan Springs t 1160 Jordan Springs Road t Stephenson, VA 22656 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 103 

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The Reporters Group CcoQuntUy RTrii· EPQRTERS court Reporting. Video 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS , IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 104 

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The Reporters Group CCoountuy RT~· e·PoRTERS Court Reporting, Video 

Stephenson, VA •~ ~ • Inc. & litigation Technology l001!ll!Y~rtersgrQYR.COm Videography litigation Technology www.advlr;galtech.corn 

Corporate: Historic Jordan Springs t 1160 Jordan Springs Road t Stephenson, VA 22656 

800.262.8777 www.countyCourtReporters.com 877.837.8313 
16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 105 

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:::::~~~~~om Videography litigation Technology 'Inc. &~=:~:g":;~~~;:;~ Corporate: Historic Jordan Springs t 1160 Jordan Springs Road t Stephenson, VA 22656 

800.262.8777 www.countyCourtReporters.com 877.837.8313 
16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 106 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 107 

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The Reporters Group ccoountuy R"'"'~· EPORTe· RS Court Reporting, Video 

Stephenson, VA I • ~ · • Inc. & litigation Technology 

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Corporate: Historic Jordan Springs t 1160 Jordan Springs Road t Stephenson, VA 22656 

800.262.8777 www.CountyCourtReporters.com 877.837.8313 
16870 1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 108 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 109 

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Stephenson, VA ~ . • Inc. & litigation Technology 

www.reportersgroup.com. Videography litigation Technology www.advlegaltecb.com 

Corporate: Historic Jordan Springs t 1160 Jordan Springs Road t Stephenson, VA 22656 

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16870-1 COASTAL AIR TRANS., IN THE MATTER OF 07/30/2012 PAGE 113 

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RECEIVED 

AUG 1 3 2012 

H~ARING DOCKET