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### Environmental Protection Agency 1

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### Clean Power Plan 6


### Supplemental Proposal Hearing 7

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### 9 : 0 0 a.m. to 8: 0 0 p.m. 13


### Wednesday, November 19, 2014 14

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### Phoenix Convention Center 16



### 100 North Third Street 17


### Phoenix, AZ 85004 18

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1



### EPA Panel: 2



### GREG GREEN 3



### MELANIE KING 4



### LAU RA MCKELLY 5



### WILL NIEBLING 6



### ANITA LEE 7



### AMY ZIMFER 8



### LAURA FERRIS 9



### COLLEN MCCONN 10

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1



### C O N T E N T S 2



### PAGE 3



### LOUIE HENA

- Citizen 12 4



### DONNA HOUSE

- Navajo Nation Citizen 13 5



### CHRISTIAN STUMPF

- American Lung Association 17 6



### DAVID CRABTREE

- Deseret Power 22 7



### LUKE JOHNSON

- Ft. Mojave Tribe 28 8



### MARY KEE

- Navajo Tribe 32 9



### GLORIA BABBIT

- Citizen 34 10



### SID ABMA

- Sidel Systems 36 11



### BRAD CHARLES

- Navajo Nation 42 12



### ELOISE BROWN

- Doda Desert Rock Organization 43 13



### CINDY POWE RS

- Citzen 48 14



### MARIE PEARTHREE

- CAWCD 52 15



### LT. GOVERNOR STEVEN LEWIS

- Citizen 56 16



### PERCY DEAL

- Navajo Reservation 60 17



### ANDY BESSLER

- NTA 66 18



### STEPHEN BRITTLE

- Don’t Waste Arizona 71 19



### COLLEN COOLEY

- Navajo Nation 77 20



### H ANSON ASHLEY

- Citizen 82 21



### JACEY BROWN

- Citizen 83 22

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### THURMAN THOMAS

- Citizen 84 1


### C O N T E N T S (continued) 2



### MARSHAL JOHNSON

- Citizen 86 3



### RAINA SILVER

- Citizen 90 4



### WAHLEAH JOHNS

- Citizen 94 5



### NADINE PADILLA

- Nav ajo Nation 100 6



### GRAHAM BEYALE

- Citizen 103 7



### KRIS BARNEY

- Citizen 106 8



### JIHAN GEARON

- Black Mesa Water Coalition 111 9



### MOLLY HOGUE

- Citizen 116 10



### JOVAN BEGAY

- Citizen 119 11



### EVELYN BEGAY

- Citizen 119 12



### HOPE MCDONALD L ONETREE

- Citizen 123 13



### MARY BABBITT

- MALONEY

- Citizen 127 14



### ZACHARIA BEN

- Citizen 130 15



### LAWRENCE GOODE

- Citizen 133 16



### GLEN MANYGOATS

- Citizen 133 17



### TEROLD CHARLEY

- Citizen 138 18



### VINCENT YAZZIE

- Citizen 147 19



### JOANNE CHIS SI E

- Citizen 150 20



### LIZA HOGUE

- Citizen 156 21



### ANDREW BEDONEY

- Citizen 157 22

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### CHARLIE MITCHELL III

- Citizen 160 1


### C O N T E N T S (continued) 2



### URVIN YAZZIE

- Citizen 165 3



### SARADA JAMES

- Citizen 167 4



### RAYMOND BEGAY

- Citizen 167 5



### ELSA JOHNSON

- Citizen 168 6



### KLEE BENALLY

- Clean up the Mines 171 7



### SUPAI WATERS

- Medicine Man 177 8



### SARAH JANE WHITE

- Citizen 184 9



### VICTORIA GUTIERREZ

- Citizen 190 10



### KELLY BARR

- Salt River Project 194 11



### ARLENE RIVERA

- Citizen 197 12



### MARK LEWIS

- Director, Maricopa County 199 13



### STEVEN ETSITTY

- Navajo Nation EPA 203 14



### NANCY NESKY

- Arizona Public Service Co. 209 15

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 2


### MR. GREEN: Good morning, everyone. I'm 3


### going to go ahead and o pen up the public hearing. 4


### My name is Greg Green and I am one of the chairs 5


### of today's public hearing, and I'd like to thank 6


### you all for coming today. 7


### Joining me on the panel this morning are 8


### Melanie King, to my left, Amy Zempher, and Laura 9


### McKelly on the end. We're here today to listen 10


### to your comments on the Clean Power Plan 11


### Supplemental Proposal for Power plants in Indian 12


### Country and U.S. Territories. EPA announced this 13


### proposed rule on October 28th, 2014 and published 14


### it in the Federal Register on November 4th, 2014. 15


### Power plants are the largest source of 16


### carbon pollution in the United States, accounting 17


### for roughly one third of all domestic greenhouse 18


### gas emissions. Like the Clean Power Plan 19


### Proposal for States, this supplemental proposal 20



### sets area specific goals for areas of Indian 21


### country and U.S. territories with affected power 22

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### plants and provides options for meeting those 1


### goals in a flexible manner that accommodates a 2


### diverse range of approaches. 3


### EPA is following through on its 4



### commitment in the June 2014 Clean Power Plan 5


### Proposal to issue a supplemental proposal to 6



### address these sources. 7


### This supplemental proposal relies on the 8


### approach used in the June 2014 Clean Power Plan 9


### proposal and is based on new information and data 10


### provided throug h additional outreach to covered 11


### facilities in trial and territorial governments. 12


### The supplemental proposal has two main 13


### elements. One, emission rate based goals 14


### specific to each area of Indian country and U.S. 15


### territories that are affected by electric 16



### ge neration units and two guidelines for the 17


### development, submission, and implementation of 18


### plans to achieve these goals. The goal is a 19


### target for areas to meet by 2030 while starting 20


### to make meaningful progress towards reductions by 21


### 2020. EPA is proposing a two

- part goal 22

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### structure, an interim goal for an area to meet on 1


### average over the 10 year period from 2020 to 2


### 2030, and a final goal for an area to meet at the 3


### end of that period in 2030 and thereafter. 4


### EPA is not prescribing a specific set of 5



### measures fo r an area to put in a plan and a tribe 6


### with jurisdiction over an affected power plant in 7


### this area has the opportunity but not the 8


### obligation to establish a plan for its area of 9


### Indian country. 10


### For Indian country EPA is proposing goals 11


### for affected power plants within the Navajo 12


### Nation, the Ute Tribe of the Uenta and Uray 13


### Reservation and a Fort Mojave tribe. 14


### For territories EPA is proposing goals 15


### for Puerto Rico and Guam only. The EPA is not 16


### proposing goals for American Samoa, Northern 17


### Marana Islands, or the U.S. Virgin Islands. 18


### I'd like to thank you for taking time out 19


### today to join us and share your comments. Before 20


### we get started I'd like to go through a few 21


### housekeeping items and ground rules that will 22

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### help make today's hearing run smoothly. 1


### First, please be sure you have checked in 2


### at the registration desk, even if you are not 3


### planning to speak today. And if you've signed up 4


### to speak online or by phone but haven't told us 5


### that you're here, please step out to the 6


### registration desk and let EPA staff know that 7


### you've arrived. 8


### Here is how today's hearing will work. I 9


### will call speakers up in pairs. When your name 10


### is called please come to the table in front of 11


### the room. When I call on you to speak please 12


### state your name and spell it for the court 13



### rep orter. Your comments will be transcribed and 14



### included in the record of comments on the 15


### proposed rule. 16


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 17


### give comments. We have a light to help you know 18


### how much time you have left to speak. When the 19


### light turns fro m green to yellow that means you 20


### have one minute remaining. When the light turns 21


### red that's the signal to wrap up your testimony. 22

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### The light will flash when you have spoken for 1


### five minutes and it's time to stop. 2


### When you are finished speaking please 3



### re main at the table until the person next to you 4


### has completed his or her testimony. We are here 5


### to listen to you today, however, a panel member 6


### may ask questions to clarify your comments. 7


### I will then call up the next pair of 8


### speakers and so on, throughou t the day. 9


### If you have brought a written copy of 10


### your testimony please give that to the staff at 11


### the registration desk before you leave today. If 12


### you have additional comments you would like to 13


### make you can submit them in writing. Information 14



### about how to submit comments to the docket is 15


### available at the registration desk. You can also 16


### submit written comments at the registration desk 17



### itself. 18


### Comments must be received by December 19


### 19th, 2014. We will put any written comments 20


### submitted today in the offici al docket for the 21


### proposed rule. Instructions for submitting 22

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### written comments in other ways are available at 1


### the material table near the registration desk. 2


### We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 3


### tonight and we'll take lunch and dinner breaks so 4



### everyone can get something to eat. 5


### Right now the lunch break is scheduled 6



### for noon and the dinner break is scheduled for 7


### 5:00. We may take occasional short breaks 8


### throughout the day as needed. We'll keep you 9


### posted as the day goes on. 10


### If you have any questions d uring the day 11


### please see the staff at the registration desk and 12


### someone will try to help you. 13


### Finally I'd like to ask each of you to 14


### please be respectful of everyone who speaks 15


### today. We have people with a wide variety of 16



### views in the audience and we wan t to hear from 17


### all of you. So that we can do that and be fair 18


### to everyone, we ask that everyone listen quietly. 19


### Even applause can slow things down and we want to 20


### hear from everyone who has signed up to speak. 21


### Thank you again for taking the time today 22

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### to share your comments on EPA's proposed rule and 1


### we're now ready to get started. The first two 2


### speakers we'd like to have come up are Louie Hena 3



### and Donna House. 4


### And we'd like to ask Mr. Hena to speak 5


### first and please remember to spell your last name 6



### for th e court reporter. 7


### MR. HENA: Good morning. Louie Hena, H

8



### E

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### MR. GREEN: Yes. Go ahead. Thank you. 10


### MR. HENA: I am in favor of the plan. 11


### You are the Environmental Protection Agency. You 12


### are here to protect Earth Mom and I would like to 13



### recommend that agencies that are cuffing your 14


### hands behind your back to stop. I come from an 15


### area where yesterday I was walking in Aspens and 16


### snow and conifer trees at an elevation of 10,500 17


### feet. The models for my future in that area, 18


### it's going to look like Phoe nix, no trees, no 19



### snow. 20


### I would like my grandchildren's 21


### grandchildren to experience what I've experienced 22

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### in my lifetime, there in my locale. We have no 1


### generating stations in my locale. However, I get 2


### acid rain. I see the trees, the poplar trees are 3



### go ing away. My daughters are child

- bearing age 4


### now. They cannot eat the fish because of the 5


### mercury content in the fish. And that's here in 6



### the Southwest. 7


### And so, yes, please do your jobs, protect 8


### Earth Mom. And I would also recommend looking at 9



### alternat ive solar energy. Look at all the sun 10


### that you have here in Phoenix. I haven't seen 11


### any solar arrays out there. And so I say again, 12


### you are the Environmental Protection Agency. 13


### Please protect Earth Mom. Thank you. 14


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Hena. Ms. 15



### Summers. Ms. House. 16


### MS. HOUSE: (Speaking in native 17


### language.) 18


### Donna House, a citizen of the Navajo 19


### Nation and right now I do think that EPA's 20


### proposal, the two options that you have for 21


### Navajo Nation, and also the other tribes, are 22

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### absolutely extremely, ridiculously low. They are 1


### way lower than what's required of the states. 2


### I think using tribal authority rule to 3


### reduce it to this point where it's totally 4


### insignificant from my point of view as far as 5


### looking at the State of Arizona that is required 6



### to reduce their Co2 emission to 52 percent and 7


### the Navajo's is right now looking up to 6 percent 8


### reduction. I mean, that is extremely low. 9



### Same with New Mexico. New Mexico is 10


### required down to 34 percent, and again, up to 6 11


### percent. So I do believe that yo u are not 12


### looking at this as a clear piece as far as the 13


### protection of Native people that have been there 14



### for centuries and centuries. 15


### You know, by looking at the difference in 16


### the different options that you've presented, this 17


### is an environmental injustice . The Navajo 18


### generating station and the Four Corner Power 19


### plants are among the largest sources of carbon 20


### pollution in Indian country. And until now they 21


### have been allowed to pump unlimited carbon 22

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### pollution. 1


### At each hearing I see that we are 2


### constantly c utting the requirements of tribal 3


### lands. Especially the Navajo when it comes to 4


### power plants generating pollution, looking at the 5


### hearings before. 6



### The tribal communities are in the front 7


### line of climate disruption, threatening the 8


### health and eco systems that land

- based people 9


### depend upon. The tribal community deserves an 10


### equal and strong carbon power plan that protects 11



### the health and our communities. 12


### I have looked at the building blocks, and 13



### I have details as far as like what I recommend as 14



### far as looki ng at the Building Block 1, Building 15


### Block 2, Building Block 3, and Building Block 4. 16


### And it's quite detailed so what I'm going to do 17



### is submit that into comments later on. But I 18


### will give you an example of like Building Block 19


### 4, EPA should be more

-- sh ould use more recent 20


### accurate cost data and should eliminate any 21



### cross

- state discounting of efficiency resources 22

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### to ensure efficiency is fully considered as a 1


### resource for all power plants, whether or not 2


### they are exporting across jurisdictional lines. 3



### But I have details addressing concerns 4


### and recommendations for each of the building 5



### blocks. 6


### In closing I believe EPA is not doing 7


### their job. You are not protecting the health of 8


### the Deni people the Hopi people and the 9


### ecosystems that they depend on. You kno w, when 10


### you're looking at climate change the impact is 11


### going to be on the frontline communities, and 12


### those are the people that live right there. 13


### I see a lot of studies coming out looking 14


### at the cost benefits, but not looking at the 15



### health of the communitie s and the eco systems. I 16


### am a botanist. I have done work on the Navajo 17


### and have seen the decline of pollinators. 18


### I see the yellow light coming. 19


### And I see the decline of species. I 20


### don't believe that EPA is looking out in the best 21


### interest of our peo ple and looking at the future 22

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### as far as impacts of climate change. Thank you. 1


### MS. MCKELLY: Thank you. 2


### MR. GREEN: Thank you very much, and you 3


### can leave your comments at the registration desk 4


### if you'd like for us to submit those. 5


### If we could, if we could hold the talking 6


### down just a little bit in the back, that would be 7


### helpful to the speakers. 8


### Our next speakers are Christian Stumpf 9


### and David Crabtree. Mr. Stump will go first. 10


### MR. STUMPF: Thank you and good morning. 11


### My name is Christian Stump, C

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### T

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- F. And I'm the regional director of 13


### public policy for the American Lung Association 14


### of the Southwest, and I appreciate the 15


### opportunity to speak today on the importance of 16


### reducing carbon pollution throughout the United 17


### States, as wel l as in the area of the Indian 18


### country and U.S. territories where fossil fuel 19


### plants are located. 20


### I'm going to talk a little bit about 21


### health impacts of climate change. The American 22

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### Lung Association is committed to fighting carbon 1


### pollution because doin g so helps save lives and 2


### improves lung health. Even with the steps that 3


### are in place to reduce air pollution evidence 4


### warns that higher temperatures due to carbon 5


### pollution and climate change will increase the 6


### risk of unhealthy air in large parts of the 7



### United States because heat enhances conditions 8


### for ozone formation and particular matter. 9


### For those who live with chronic lung 10


### disease ozone and particulate matter can cause 11


### difficulty breathing, asthma attacks, and 12


### premature death, and have been linked to low 13


### birth weight in newborns. 14



### Children are vulnerable because their 15


### airways are still developing. Even healthy 16


### children who grow up where ozone levels are high 17


### may be at greater risk for lung disease later in 18



### life. Particulate matter is linked to hear t 19



### attacks and strokes. 20


### In addition to worsened air quality the 21


### recent National Climate Assessment highlights 22

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### other critical health impacts from climate change 1


### that are being felt across the nation, including 2


### heat waves, wild fires, drought, and excessive 3



### p arcipitation, flooding, dust storms, and more. 4


### All of these events have very serious public 5


### health consequences that we must not ignore. 6


### Reducing carbon pollution from all power plants 7


### is an important step in the right direction. 8



### Some of the co

- benefits of reducing 9


### carbon pollution, cleaning up carbon pollution 10


### will help public health immediately. Steps to 11


### reduce carbon pollution will cut emissions of 12


### other toxic air pollutants including nitrogen 13


### oxide, sulfur dioxide, and mercury. 14


### Nitrogen oxide irritat es the lungs, 15


### triggers asthma, and increases the risk of 16


### infections. Sulfur dioxide triggers asthma 17


### attacks and increases the risk of hospitalization 18


### and emergency room visits. These pollutants are 19


### also known as precursors to ozone and particulate 20



### matter as I have previously discussed. 21



### It is vital that the EPA both calculate 22

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### and inform the public of these important life 1


### saving co

- benefits of reducing carbon pollution 2


### from power plants. A separate study confirms 3



### that co

- benefits from reducing carbon pollu tion 4


### are real, but that doing too little may prove 5


### harmful. Strong limits on carbon pollution from 6


### existing power plants could improve air quality 7


### an prevent an estimated 3,500 premature deaths in 8


### 2020, along with other significant benefits to 9



### human healt h according to an analysis released in 10


### September by researchers from Harvard University, 11


### Syracuse University, and Boston University. 12


### The study compared business as usual 13


### conditions with three alternatives for limiting 14


### carbon pollution from power plants. R esults show 15


### that a strong, enforceable, and flexible approach 16


### to reducing carbon pollution would reduce 17


### emissions of other harmful pollutants and sulfur 18


### dioxide, and that nitrogen oxides by about 19


### 775,000 tons each year. 20


### In addition to reducing premature de aths, 21


### the strongest options avoided 530 to 1,500 22

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### hospital admissions for cardiovascular and 1


### respiratory diseases in 2020. As a result of 2



### lower emissions all of the lower 48 states would 3


### experience cleaner air. These are suggested 4


### improvements. 5



### The Americ an Lung Association will submit 6


### detailed technical comments separately to EPA, 7


### however let me close with these key points. EPA 8


### must ensure that the plan adopted recognizes that 9



### the reduction in carbon and in these additional 10


### pollutants will provide critic al relief to people 11


### who live near power plants and who have suffered 12


### from these pollutants for decades. Across the 13


### nation those communities are often high 14


### population and lower income, and with existing 15


### lung diseases and other chronic diseases. 16



### The Ameri can Lung Association does not 17


### support biomass combustion for electricity 18


### production, a category that includes wood, wood 19


### products, agricultural residue, or forest waste, 20


### and potentially highly toxic feed stock such as 21



### construction and demolition waste. If biomass is 22

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### combusted state of the art pollution controls 1


### must be required. 2


### We appreciate EPA's commitment to 3


### quantifiable, non

- duplicative, permanent, 4


### verifiable, and enforceable plans. EPA must be 5



### clear that the final standards must be 6


### enforceable, not just by EPA but by citizens and 7


### citizens group. We urge EPA to clearly spell out 8


### the timing and process to enforce a federal plan 9


### for areas that failed to meet the requirement. 10


### Thank you. 11


### MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very 12



### much. Mr. Crabtree? 13



### MR. CR ABTREE: Thank you. I appreciate 14


### the opportunity to speak to you this morning. My 15


### name is David Crabtree, C

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### for Deseret Power. Deseret Power is a member 17


### owned cooperative with electric generation 18


### transmission system located in the State of Utah. 19



### Deseret serves six rural distribution 20


### systems and is the sole all requirement source 21


### for electric power and energy to these systems. 22

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### Those systems provide all of the electric power 1


### and the projected needs for future development in 2



### some of the economically at

- risk areas, the rural 3


### communities and tribal lands in parts of Nevada, 4


### Utah, Arizona, Colorado, and Wyoming. 5


### Deseret has one principle generating 6


### resource that it owns and operates, the Bonanza 7


### Plant, a single

- unit coal plant. The comm unities 8


### served by Deseret's member system are sparsely 9


### populated with electric customer densities often 10


### measured in miles per meter rather than meters 11


### per mile. Most of the communalities lie within 12


### counties that are economically at risk, include 13


### specially sensitive tribal communities, as well 14


### as challenged communities located in rugged 15


### geographical areas surrounded by federally 16


### protected lands. 17


### Following the enactment of the power 18


### plants and industrial fuel use act of 1978, these 19


### communities banded togethe r to invest in a 50

- 20


### plus

- year investment for base load generating 21


### resource, which became the Bonanza unit. The 22

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### federal statute at that time required that the 1


### base load generating unit must be constructed to 2


### use coal. It was not an option to use 3



### alternat ive fuels under that law. 4


### For a better part of two decades the 5



### consumers in these small communities and tribal 6


### areas paid premiums for their power from this 7



### newer base load resource. As one of the newest 8


### such plants to be constructed it received no 9


### grandf athered status under the Clean Air Act, it 10


### was required to meet the highest standards of 11


### best available control technology from day one. 12



### The families of these rural and tribal 13


### communities played by all the rules. They paid 14


### higher prices for electricity at the beginning, 15


### knowing that eventually their long

- term 16


### investment would pay dividends in stable rates 17


### and ample energy supply, which was badly needed 18


### to attract business development in their areas. 19


### Now the rules are about to be changed 20


### significantly. The se communities are especially 21


### vulnerable to fluctuations in electricity rates, 22

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### with sensitivities for already marginal economic 1


### development, business development, and 2


### relocation, particularly at risk to price 3



### sensitivities. 4


### Small systems, such as Deseret , have no 5


### large investor base to draw from. We are 6


### customer owned and cooperatively operated. 7


### Deseret has no large urban customer base across 8


### which to spread increased operating expenses. 9


### Much of the power and energy generated by 10


### Deseret's generation sy stems was long ago 11


### committed under long

- term power sales, agreements 12



### to third

- party utilities, and Deseret has only 13


### limited ability to pass through increases in cost 14


### to those long

- term purchasers. 15



### As a result the increased cost of 16


### compliance will fall dis proportionately on the 17


### rural and tribal customers who depend on Deseret 18


### as sole source all requirement supplier. 19


### In considering the proposed supplemental 20


### rule, discretion should be exercised in 21


### implementing it to take into account the 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### disproportionate co st impacts the proposed rule 1


### will have on small utilities, especially those 2



### like Desert. 3


### These small utilities have significantly 4


### fewer resources at their disposal to comply with 5


### the proposed rule. There are no alternative 6


### electric suppliers to serve thes e small utilities 7



### customers. 8


### Deseret's rural member systems in 9


### particular could be adversely impacted by the 10


### disproportionate facts of the proposed rule. EPA 11


### states in the proposed Rule 111D rulemaking for 12


### state jurisdictional entities that, and I quote, 13


### "The unique circumstances of each individual 14


### state," end quote, should be considered. 15


### Deseret feels strongly that EPA should 16


### likewise take account of the unique circumstances 17



### of the Bonanza Plant as the sole affected source 18


### within the designated Uenta Uray Reservation. It 19


### is not logical, nor fair, in the estimation of 20


### Deseret, to require carbon reductions on this 21


### newer unit at the same rate, on the same 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### schedule, as units that were constructed and have 1


### operated unhindered of carbon constraints for 10, 2



### 15, 20, or more years longer than our plant. 3


### Finally, as noted above, the Uenta Uray 4


### affected resource, the Bonanza unit is a single

5


### unit resource. The year 2012, on which the 6


### standard is based and was developed, in that year 7


### Bonanza experienced prolonged and unusual outages 8


### due to plant maintenance outages that are usually 9


### only scheduled once every few years. 2012 is not 10


### a representative year on which to base Bonanza's 11



### carbon standard. 12


### Finally I'd like to just speak one word 13



### about the dedicated Union Mine Fo rest at the 14



### Deserato Coal Mine. That coal mine is in Western 15


### Colorado, is the largest employer in the county 16


### and that part of the state. That community 17


### relies on that coal plant, on that coalmine. The 18


### only market for the coal from that mine is the 19



### Bonan za Plant. Reductions in output at the 20



### Bonanza Plant mean reductions at the coalmine. 21


### No way around it. We care about those miners and 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### we care about their community. Those miners and 1


### their family have invested in years of mortgages 2



### for their homes. The y need careers that will 3



### last. 4


### We'll supplement our comments further and 5


### expand on what we've said. Thank you for your 6



### time. 7


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Crabtree. Our 8


### next speakers are Luke Johnson and Mary Rose Key. 9



### Ms. Kee. 10


### Mr. Johnson, you'll speak first. Please 11


### spell your last name for the court reporter. 12


### MR. JOHNSON: Yes, thank you. My name is 13


### Luke Johnson, L

- U

- K

- E, Johnson, J

- O

- H

- N

- S

- O

- N. 14


### I'm from the Fort Mojave Tribe, which is 15



### in the tri

- state are of Nevada, California, and 16



### Arizona. 17



### I ap preciate listening to my fellow 18


### tribal people from across the country, hearing 19


### their comments about Mother Earth and keeping it 20


### clean. We all have that same concept of keeping 21


### Mother Earth clean. She brought us here and gave 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### us energy types over the year s. And in our study 1


### of energy it's an ever changing paradigm that's 2


### just going to change from this generation to the 3


### next generation. 4


### Right now we're seeing a huge 5


### environmental impact by coal

- generated power 6


### plants. When we began our study of putting a 7


### power plant on our reservation, we took a look at 8


### a different paradigm of natural gas. There was a 9



### coal

- fired power plant in our area, not on our 10


### land but in our area, that was emitting huge 11



### amounts of unwanted clean air. In fact I think 12


### people used to call it the dirtiest coal plant in 13


### all of America. But it's gone. 14


### So what remains in the Mojave Valley now 15


### is a natural gas fired power plant. Other types 16


### of energy that we look at from Mother Earth and 17


### the great sprit that he gave us, is renewable 18



### ene rgy. We look at the sun. The sun has been 19


### there for billions of years. What a source of 20


### energy we can capture the idea of how that works. 21


### So we are presently confronted with coal 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### and the big imprint it makes. And we are very 1



### fortunate that we took th e opportunity we had 2


### with Calpine to have natural gas fired plant on 3


### our reservation, which creates a smaller 4


### footprint. And we are looking at renewable 5


### energy which will even be a less footprint upon 6



### Mother Earth. 7



### So that's the idea. We have to take a 8



### l ook at these energy sources and the paradigm 9


### that is attached to it and we will always be 10


### changed to something, to a better and better 11


### system. So that's the way I really encourage my 12


### tribal people to go. 13


### So yesterday at ITCA, Calpine and myself, 14



### we were a ble to sit and talk with you folks about 15


### the proposed plan that you're having for clean 16


### power in the Southwest of America. And 17


### interesting, there's four tribes, Navajo, the Ute 18


### Tribe, and also the Fort Mojave tribe. And out 19



### of those tribes we are the one that has the 20


### natural gas fired plant capability, and that’s 21


### how we operate. We're operating at a 520 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### megawatt natural gas fired power plant. So 1



### that's where we're at. 2


### And also interestingly, I think when I 3


### came to the meeting yesterday I was more in my 4


### mind thinking that maybe EPA was having some hard 5


### fast rules that were going to be coming down upon 6


### the tribal people with power plants, but not so. 7


### It is a proposal. You're asking for ideas, 8


### you're asking for comment as to how our footprint 9


### would impact the Southwest, and I'm grateful for 10


### that. So it's going to allow us to go back home, 11


### take a look at the natural power plant system 12


### that we have, and see how we can develop a plan 13



### to better that. 14


### Among all people that have power plants, 15


### the objective is to generate as much electricity 16


### as we can and so forth. And so from your 17


### viewpoint, it's to preserve the footprint of 18


### carbon upon the land. So we have to put the two 19


### plants together. And we can do that, so that's 20


### our intended purpose, is to go back hom e, take a 21


### look at these building blocks, take a look at the 22

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### proposal as it is, and submit comment as to how 1


### we can improve our plan to you folks. Thank you. 2


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Ms. 3



### Key. 4


### MS. KEE: My name is Mary Kee. I come 5



### from the Tun Lee, Arizona, north of Flagstaff, 6


### close to Page, we live there, and we need clean 7


### air for our people, our elders and young people 8


### and small kids. And we have a problem with those 9


### things and then our

-- then the grass won't grow 10



### back because the air is not clean. That's why it 11


### gets all the things that the grass is gone, no 12


### rain, and then our sheep and our sheep, they eat 13


### grass, but there is none and we, Navajo people, 14


### we use some those traditional grasses are gone. 15


### Now we only can depend on the hospital 16


### but I don't know what they use. Those pills, we 17



### tell them what comes from that. Take these 18


### pills, they said, but we never get well on that 19


### pill and we just go down down. I don't know what 20



### it is. So there is

-- we need air clean up, 21


### everything that thes e

-- right there for us. And 22

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### the water too. 1


### A lot of things are just not in

-- it's 2


### not working right, and they don't listen to us or 3


### we complain about those things. They don't 4


### listen to us. So that's how hard up people are 5


### up there. That's about it. 6



### M R. GREEN: Thank you very much, Ms. Kee. 7



### (Pause.) 8


### MR. GREEN: Okay. Our next speakers are 9



### Gloria Babbit and Sid Abma. 10



### MR. ABMA: That's me. 11


### MR. GREEN: All right. You're on next. 12



### You are Gloria Babbit? 13


### (No audible response.) 14



### MR. GREEN: MR. Abma

. 15


### MR. ABMA: Oh, okay. 16



### MR. GREEN: Do we have a Gloria Babbit? 17


### Front table, please. 18



### Gloria Babbit? 19


### THE INTERPRETER: She's coming. 20


### MR. GREEN: Okay. She's coming. Ms. 21


### Babbit will go first, so we'll

-- 22

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### MR. ABMA: Oh, okay. That's fine. 1



### MR. GREEN:

-- w ait for her. 2



### MS. BABBIT: Hello. 3


### MR. ABMA: Hello, there. How are you 4


### today? 5


### MS. BABBIT: (Speaking in native 6


### language.) 7



### MR. GREEN: We have a translator here 8


### that may be able to help us out. Ms. Babbit is 9



### first. 10


### (Testimony through a translator.) 11



### THE I NTERPRETER: Can I use that one or 12



### not? That's not wired? 13


### MR. ABMA: It's up to these folks. 14


### MR. GREEN: We prefer you

-- 15


### THE INTERPRETER: Oh, okay. All right. 16


### MR. GREEN: Yeah. Go ahead. All right. 17


### Go ahead, please. Ms. Babbit has five minutes. 18


### MS. BABBIT: You that are seated there, 19


### hello to all of you. I'm going to talk to you 20



### now. 21



### I'm concerned about the bad air that's 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### surrounded us near Page. We don't like it. All 1


### the people that live out there, the people that I 2


### live with, do not like it . And so that's why I'm 3


### addressing you now. We want that to stop. 4


### There's many of us who say the same thing. Those 5


### that I live with, there are a lot of people out 6


### there, elderlies, men, young men, kids, some of 7


### them have sheep, horses, cattle, dogs and it's 8


### not good for them, this bad air. It's not good 9



### for them. 10


### And so I say, I oppose this. It is 11


### dangerous, this smoke that's emitted is 12


### dangerous. Yes. That's why people have lost 13


### their lives. My son was working there and for no 14



### reason he died. I b lame that, and that's why I'm 15


### opposing the bad air. That's what I wanted to 16


### tell you now, those that are seated there. Are 17


### you listening to me? So you can hear me. 18


### That's it, my son. 19


### MS. MCKELLY: Thank you. 20


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, Ms. Babbit. Yes, 21


### we heard you. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### For the court reporter, her last name is 1


### spelled, B

- A

- B

- B

- I

- T. Thank you very much. 2



### Mr. Abma. 3


### MR. ABMA: Thank you, EPA for this 4


### opportunity. This is an important issue. It 5



### starts with American and our need for electrical 6



### energy. 7



### As w ith any issue there are always two 8


### sides to the coin. On the one side is the energy 9


### that is required to produce this electricity. We 10


### have a choice between natural gas and coal, 11


### fossil fuels, to provide electricity 24/7, and we 12


### have renewables that produc e during the right 13



### conditions. 14



### On the other side of the coin are the 15


### environmental aspects, and we all know there is 16


### no way we want to have an air environment 17


### anywhere similar to China or India. Thank you, 18



### EPA. 19



### America is blessed to have an abundance 20



### of c oal and natural gas and I believe we have to 21


### continue to use both of these energy sources. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Today natural gas is considered to be the clean 1


### energy source, and the new emissions regulations 2


### being worked on by the EPA are based on their 3



### numbers. In order fo r the coal industry to 4


### comply they basically have to have the 5


### technologies provided to them to aid them into 6


### compliance. Carbon capture sequestration is one 7


### such very expensive technology. When it is used 8


### near the power plant site to aide in the 9


### producti on of producing oil or natural gas, the 10


### sequestration then has a purpose. 11


### Our company, Sidel Systems, believes in 12



### an efficient America. We believe that coal can 13


### be combusted in compliance with these new EPA 14


### regulations. In fact we believe that we can 15



### ass ist the coal industry to combust this coal in 16


### a way that will be much cleaner than natural gas. 17


### The Sidel CCU System starts at ash 18


### particulate removal. Currently coal power plants 19


### are applying a number of different technologies 20


### to remove the particulate a s best as possible and 21


### to deal with what is not captured is to install 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### large blower fans to hopefully blow the 1


### particulate into a higher air stream in order to 2


### disburse this left over particulate over a larger 3



### area. 4


### Sidel Systems has developed an ash 5



### rec overy system that was developed for another 6


### industry that will also work for coal at 7


### approximately 25 percent of the operating cost of 8


### these existing technologies. And it will work 9


### effectively during all environmental conditions 10


### and particulate size. 11



### Side l Systems has been applying the 12


### technology of condensing through gas heat 13


### recovery for increased natural gas energy 14


### efficiency for over 30 years. Recovering the 15


### heat energy is a fairly straightforward 16


### technology. Transfer the heat and the combusted 17



### exhau st into water, then utilize that recovered 18



### heat. 19


### Sidel Systems has redesigned our Asser U 20



### Series Flue Gas Condensers so that we are now 21


### capable to do heat recovery on coal exhaust. 22

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### Coal exhaust is different than natural gas 1


### exhaust, but the goal is the s ame. Instead of 2


### hot exhaust, cool exhaust will be vented into the 3


### atmosphere. This is done to help reduce global 4


### warming. 5


### On the other side of the coin the biggest 6


### environmental issue facing the coal power plants 7


### is their Co2 emissions. Sidel Systems ha s 8


### developed a carbon capture utilization system 9


### that regenerates the Co2 in this combusted coal 10


### exhaust into byproducts that are salable or into 11


### a product that will help reduce the amount of 12


### coal required for combustion. 13


### Our technology for Co2 removal util izes a 14


### combination of a mean scrubbing and quick lime 15


### absorption to maximize carbon capture. We will 16


### capture more Co2 pound for pound than any other 17


### absorbent currently being utilized. Our process 18


### will create revenue generating byproducts, 19


### including calc ium carbonate, raw stock bio

- fuel, 20


### and will aid in the production of algae and other 21


### food producing crops. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Our carbon capture utilization process 1


### offers multiple benefits to communities where the 2


### coal fired power plants are located. Including 3



### removal of t he generated Co2 byproducts, and 4


### potential job creation and hydroponic agriculture 5


### producing food products, bio

- fuel development, or 6


### algae production. 7


### Our goal in developing this technology 8


### was to do so with the lowest capital cost 9


### compared to other curr ent systems to have a low 10


### operating cost and to reduce the utilities energy 11


### penalty and mitigation costs. 12


### Our process has received preliminary 13


### review from the Department of Energy, and we are 14


### waiting to receive a date to proceed with testing 15



### at the Natio nal Carbon Capture Center. Once 16


### America's coal industry is operating cleaner than 17


### natural gas, we will then have to help the 18


### natural gas power plants reduce their waste heat 19


### and Co2 emissions. They may be considered the 20


### clean fossil fuel energy, but they still vent Co2 21


### and heat energy into the atmosphere, and this Co2 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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- 337641



### and waste heat energy also needs to be utilized 1


### efficiently. 2


### The goal of our newly formed company, S & 3


### G Environmental, is to help provide America with 4


### cleaner air, with the economic benef its of job 5


### creation and food production, and the ability to 6


### continue operating America's coal fired power 7


### plants and their attached industries, and exceed 8


### these new EPA regulations. Our goal is for a 9


### win/win situation for building owners and 10


### industry and the environment. 11


### Thank you. 12


### MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very 13


### much. Could you state your name and spell your 14


### last name for the court reporter? 15


### MR. ABMA: My name is Sid Abma, A

- B

- M

- A. 16



### S

- I

- D A

- B

- M

- A. 17


### MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very 18


### much, bot h of you. 19


### Okay. Our next speakers are Brad Charles 20


### and Eloise Brown. Mr. Charles would go first, 21


### and both of you, before you speak, if we could 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### get you to state your name and spell your last 1


### name for the court reporter, that would be great. 2


### Thank you. 3



### M R. CHARLES: My name is Brad Charles. 4



### C

- H

- A

- R

- L

- E

- S. 5


### I came to speak on behalf of the youth 6


### and the elders of the Navajo nation. When I was 7


### small growing up it was beautiful outside. I 8


### would walk outside and see crystal blue skies. 9



### When I walk out no w and I look outside, all I see 10


### is yellow. Yellow everywhere. Yellow within our 11


### sacred boundaries and it's eating up everything. 12


### We try to stop the coal power plants that 13


### were within our area, but they somehow seem to 14


### keep going through. I'm tired of it . I'm tired 15


### of seeing yellow everywhere. I'm tired of not 16


### breathing right and wondering why the

-- whether 17



### in our

-- more secret sites are, it's 18


### deteriorating. A lot of times you can't breathe 19



### because the air is so bad. It's like we're in 20


### LA, but we're not in LA, we're on a reservation 21


### where it should be nice and clean and away from 22

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### all this kind of stuff. But you see it every 1


### day; every day you see it, and it's horrible. 2



### There's water sources that are around 3


### there that are being infected now, also by the 4


### coal and the electricity that it's making. And 5


### there's a place called Morgan Lake, which is 6



### called

-- where they think a lot of the animals 7


### are being

-- sort of like a Galapagos thing, 8


### where they are transforming into something else, 9


### getting third leg or something like that because 10



### the air is so bad in that area. 11



### And then a lot of the elders don't like 12


### the stuff that's going on also. We don't

-- the 13


### new youth that's coming out, we don't like what's 14


### going on so we came here to talk about it. So, 15



### tha nk you. 16


### MR. GREEN: Thank you very much, Mr. 17



### Charles. Ms. Brown. 18


### MS. BROWN: Good morning, everybody, my 19


### name is Eloise Brown, B

- R

- O

- W

- N, and I'm with a 20


### group called Doda Desert Rock Organization. Doda 21


### means absolutely no, absolutely not. And there 22

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### was a third coal burning power plant that was 1


### being proposed back in 2006, and we put a stop to 2


### it in two and a half years and the proposal 3


### failed. We had to fight against our own Navajo 4


### Nation leaders, which was former President, Joe 5


### Shirly (phonetic). Chri s Deschitney (phonetic) 6


### who was the attorney for EPA and so forth and so 7



### forth. 8


### And including the current president, Ben 9


### Shelly, who were proposing this power plant 10


### called Desert Rock. And we went through a lot. 11


### Our own leaders put us through a lot due t o us 12


### grassroots saying no to power plants, no to 13


### pollution. 14


### Just like Brad said, we have a lot of 15


### people who are on oxygen. They carry oxygen, 16


### including my mother. And she used to speak on, 17


### you know, behalf of our nation also. She used to 18



### travel with us, and my dad used to travel with 19


### us, but we lost my dad a year ago. And my mom is 20


### on oxygen to where she can't sit very long and 21


### she can't handle this long trip. 22

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### And so, you know, we have elders like 1


### that back home. We have a lot of people that 2



### have ox ygen, that use oxygen and so it's really 3


### sad to see on a Navajo Nation and the surrounding 4



### areas of the Arizona Public Service and San Juan 5


### generating stations, they're both coal burning 6


### power plants, where people are you know, dying 7


### from cancer. Pretty m uch when you hear about a 8


### funeral it's always like, you know, what 9


### happened? And they're like well, he is deceased 10



### or she is deceased because she or he had cancer. 11


### And also lung fibrosis, pneumoconiosis, and all 12



### that

-- you know, all those kind of ailmen ts that 13


### they've caught or had. Or that's the reason why 14


### they're, you know, passing away at an early age 15


### where before people, you know, used to grow into 16


### like, 110 years old or whatever. I think it's 17


### very rare now that we see elders that are like 18



### 102 and 105. 19



### And so I know it has a lot to do with 20


### this pollution, and we're saying to the U.S. EPA, 21


### please, you know, we don't want that to continue 22

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### and you know, whatever you can do to help 1


### eliminate the pollution as much as possible, we 2


### would really appreciat e it. And I'm speaking on 3


### behalf of the Navajo Nation grass roots and I 4



### sent e

- mails to our president, Shirly

-- or 5


### Shelly. President Shelly, but he didn't respond. 6


### I was hoping that he would be here with me, with 7



### us to talk about this. 8



### And so we're r eally standing strong on 9


### saying no to pollution. We want clean air 10


### because when, you know

-- there's people that are 11


### saying that we want power plants, we want coal 12


### burning power plants because it provides jobs, it 13


### provides revenue for the Navajo Nation. But that 14


### may be so, but why would you

-- how in the world 15


### would you be working when you have health 16


### ailments? When you have cancer why would you 17


### want to even, you know, get a job and try to, you 18


### know, move forward. 19


### I just went through a lot with a lot of 20



### elders. I do a lot of volunteer work so I know 21


### what elders go through. So to me I'm saying that 22

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### money is not important. Yeah, of course you'll 1


### buy a lot of things with money, but jobs are not 2


### that important compared to your health. So what 3


### I'm trying to say is that if your loved one 4


### passes away from cancer or lung fibrosis or you 5


### know, any kind of lung problems, you can't go to 6


### work at a power plant and buy that person back. 7



### He'll never come back. She'll never come back 8


### because that's what happened t o my dad. And I 9


### know my mom is going through a lot. And we have 10


### elders that we've brought. 11


### And as long as I live, as long as I'm on 12


### this Earth I'll speak on behalf of the Navajo 13


### Nation, the elders, because I really do care 14



### about their health. I care abo ut the future 15


### generation. I don't want to hear somewhere down 16


### the road, you know, I don't know what happens 17


### after you die, but I don't want

-- if I should be 18


### able to listen to the younger generation I don't 19


### want them to ever say, what happened to my 20


### grand ma. What happened to my auntie? When they 21


### were alive they should have protected Mother 22

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### Earth. They should have protected our air. You 1


### know, I don't know what happens, but that's just 2


### the thoughts that go through my little brain. 3



### And so that's the reas on why I'm here. 4


### And I don't want dirty air. I want clean 5


### air for the people. Not only the people, but all 6


### living species, including Mother Earth, the 7


### trees, everything. Thank you very much. 8


### MR. GREEN: Okay. Thank you, both. 9


### Next we have Cindy Power s and Marie 10



### Pearthree. 11


### Ms. Powers will go first, and please 12


### restate your name and spell your last name for 13


### us, please. 14


### MS. POWERS: Cindy Powers, P

- O

- W

- E

- R

- S. 15


### Good morning U.S. EPA. 16


### MS. MCKELLY: Could I ask you to pull the 17


### microphone a little closer s o we can hear you 18



### better? 19


### MS. POWERS: Can you hear me now? 20


### MS. MCKELLY: Yeah. Thank you. 21


### MS. POWERS: Good morning. Well, let's 22

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### see. I am new to this whole clean air. I have 1


### lived in Northern California for nearly 20 years 2


### and I've been pretty fortun ate. I feel like I've 3


### been blessed. But the one thing I can say is 4


### that I've been raised, also, in Northern Arizona 5


### near Lake Powell, where there is an SRP station, 6


### and that's a coal burning facility. And I have 7


### family members who work there too, and th e one 8


### thing is

-- the one thing I think about often is, 9


### like anymore as I am

-- because I'm a mother of 10


### three. So I think about my children and my 11


### grandchildren, and the people who are going to 12



### follow

-- follow my footsteps. And the one cause 13



### I feel like is very important to understand is 14



### that we cannot live without air. And the one 15


### thing also is that clean air is vital to our 16


### society. Not just for the Navajo Nation, but for 17


### everyone globally at large. 18


### And the one thing I also am thinking is 19



### that would be very helpful is to see

-- and my 20



### wish list is that we could somehow have zero or 21


### low carbon source of electricity, or even just do 22

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### away with the coal burning factories and do 1



### alternative methods that are much more beneficial 2


### to us as a society and not o nly that, to the 3


### animals and just everything to the whole 4



### ecosystem. 5


### And, why not? We are very

-- this is the 6


### 21st Century. Who is to say like the

-- why 7


### can't we look into 22nd Century, 23rd Century and 8


### think about how we can say hey, this is the day 9



### th at we took a stand, 21st Century, 19

-- or 10


### what's today? November 2014. And to say that we 11


### were a part of this and that we were a part of 12


### making changes that project like people living 13


### longer and not having to be dependent on machines 14


### that is really, it' s a foreign object. And why 15


### can't we just have like

-- why can't we just 16


### breath without having to resort to machines and 17


### relying on different medications and the 18


### implications that go with it is depression and 19


### all the other things that

-- just even suicide

. 20


### And it becomes like, I think to me, like 21


### families talk about well, so

- and

- so died of 22

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### cancer, this type of cancer. And my aunt died of 1


### this. And it becomes a generational curse. And 2


### we can break that curse, I believe, by stepping 3


### up and saying let's be empowered by using what is 4


### much more beneficial to our health right now. 5



### And to know that it isn't too late. 6


### And coal, for instance, and where it 7


### comes from and how it's used, it really is, it's 8


### outdated and how long have we been dependent on 9



### it? Lik e nearly 100 years. And look at where we 10


### are now. And we're not faring very well as a 11


### society. 12


### So I hope to have my

-- I hope to see my 13



### great

- grandchildren, and that's my other wish is 14


### to see them without having me be on some sort of 15


### oxygen as I get in my older years. And that I 16


### will be able to be a citizen who is still giving 17


### back in a big way. Thank you. 18


### MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. Ms. 19



### Pearthree. 20


### MS. PEARTHREE: Yes. Do I need to spell 21



### my name? 22

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### MR. GREEN: Yes, please. 1


### MS. PEARTHREE: Okay. It's P as in Paul, 2



### E

- A

- R

- T

- H

- R

- E

- E. Okay? 3



### MR. GREEN: Go ahead. 4


### MS. PEARTHREE: Okay. Thank you. Good 5


### morning. My name is Marie Pearthree and I am 6


### Deputy General Manager at the Central Arizona 7



### Water Conservation District. 8


### CAWCD appreciates the oppo rtunity to 9


### comment and wishes to express its general 10



### concurrence with the EPA's determination in the 11


### supplemental proposal to the Clean Power Plan 12


### that Indian Country, specifically Navajo 13


### Generating Station, or NGS for short, will meet 14


### the proposed carbon standards of the Clean Power 15


### Plan through compliance with the NGS best 16


### available retrofit technology or BART provisions 17


### of the Clean Air Act and the regional Haze Rule. 18


### The NGS BART rule drew an extraordinary 19



### balance between NGS constituents and the EPA to 20


### find a mutually acceptable solution for the 21


### continued operation of NGS, and we are 22

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### appreciative of the efforts being made to 1



### continue that balance. 2



### Our interest in the Clean Power Plan 3


### stems from the critical role that NGS plays in 4


### the operation of the Central Arizona Project, CAP 5


### for short, which is overseen by CAWCD. 6


### The CAP is a massive water delivery 7


### project constructed by the U.S. Bureau of 8



### Reclamation to enable Arizona to make full use of 9


### its Colorado River entitlement. And greater than 10


### 90 perce nt of the power needed to deliver, about 11



### 1.6 million acre feet of Colorado River water to 12


### municipal and industrial users, agricultural 13


### irrigation districts, and Indian communities in 14


### Central and Southern Arizona, over 90 percent of 15


### the power needed to do t hat comes from NGS. 16


### In addition, affordable CAP water has 17


### been a crucial component in the successful 18


### negotiation of multiple Native American water 19


### right settlements in Arizona. And today 47 20


### percent of CAP water is dedicated to Indian use 21



### with nine tribes holding contacts for that water. 22

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### NGS is also of extreme importance as 1


### power from the federal share of NGS that exceeds 2


### the pumping needs of the CAP is sold as Navajo 3


### surplus, and those proceeds are used to repay the 4


### federal government for construction of the CAP 5


### system, and to help fund Native American water 6


### right settlements. 7


### The EPA states, in the supplemental 8


### proposal, that it does not expect any additional 9


### emission reductions from areas of Indian Country 10


### with affected electrical generating units, 11



### inclu ding the Navajo Nations area of Indian 12


### Country due to compliance with other regulations. 13


### CAWCD strongly encourages the EPA to 14



### maintain this determination in the final rule. 15


### The possible imposition of additional 16


### requirements to control carbon emissions b eyond 17


### those achieved through the NGS BART rule, and 18


### resulting costs would have a devastating impact 19


### on water use in the state, including jeopardizing 20


### existing and future Indian water right 21


### settlements, loss of agriculture in Central and 22

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### Southern Arizona, a nd negative impacts to 1


### municipal and industrial customers. 2



### So in conclusion CAWCD's mission to 3


### provide affordable Colorado River water supplies 4


### to 80 percent of the state's population is a 5


### multifaceted and highly collaborative effort with 6


### Indian Country and specifically NGS at its 7



### center. 8


### The supplemental proposal recognizes the 9



### balance struck between NGS constituents and the 10


### EPA to develop mutually acceptable solutions for 11


### the continued operation of NGS for the useful 12


### life of a plant. 13



### The EPA's conclus ion that NGS will meet 14


### the proposed carbon standards of the Clean Power 15


### Plan through compliance with the BART provisions 16


### of the Clean Air Act, and the regional Haze 17


### Rules, further evidence of the agency's 18


### commitment to achieve air quality standards and 19



### ens ure the continued vitality of NGS and the CAP, 20


### both of which are critical to Arizona's economy 21


### and all it's people. And thank you very much. I 22

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### appreciate the opportunity. 1


### MR. GREEN: Thank you. Next we have 2


### Lieutenant Governor Steven Lewis and Percy Dea l. 3


### Lieutenant Governor Lewis will speak first. 4


### MR. LEWIS: Thank you, and it's good 5


### thoughts. My name is Steven Rel Lewis, and I am 6



### the Lieutenant Governor and the Governor elect of 7


### the Hue (Phonetic) Indian community. The 8


### community is an Indian nation located south of 9


### Phoenix, Arizona, with lands encompassing 10


### approximately 372,000 acres. 11


### And again, I want to thank the EPA for 12


### the opportunity to testify on behalf of my 13


### people, the Okomahotham (phonetic) and Peposh 14


### (phonetic) peoples on the Agency's Cle an Power 15


### Plan Supplemental Proposal. 16


### Today my testimony will focus on how 17


### EPA's proposed rule will affect operations at the 18


### Navajo Generating Station. NGS supplies 19


### approximately 95 percent of the power delivered 20


### through the Central Arizona Project water to the 21


### community and other CAP customers. Our federally 22

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### guaranteed CAP water, which is a trust resource, 1


### is vital for my people's agricultural production 2


### and economy and the health and spiritual 3


### wellbeing of all of my community members. 4


### The most import ant issue is that the EPA 5


### has a trust obligation to ensure that delivery of 6



### this CAP water continues and remains affordable 7



### under our Water Settlement Act. 8


### EPA has proposed an emissions goal for 9


### the Navajo Territory that EPA expects will be met 10



### at NGS th rough compliance with the EPA's best 11


### available retrofit technology final rule, and 12


### therefore will not cause tribes to incur any 13


### additional cost. If EPA's proposed goal can be 14


### satisfied through existing commitments at NGS the 15


### community supports this goal a nd urges the EPA to 16


### adopt it in its final rule. 17


### While the community appreciates that the 18


### proposed rule will not impose additional costs at 19


### NGS it is important for EPA to recognize that the 20


### BART rulemaking process and the implementation of 21



### the BART final r ule has and will continue to have 22

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### significant cost implications for my community. 1


### The community support for the proposed 2


### rule does not mean, though, that we are 3


### completely satisfied with the EPA's actions at 4


### NGS. The BART final rule was the best possible 5


### compromise to an extremely complex and unique set 6


### of challenges at NGS, and therefore is a strong 7


### and viable first step in a series of steps that 8


### will redress the community's harms stemming from 9



### EPA's actions at NGS. 10



### There are two additional issues that t he 11


### community urges the EPA to address in its final 12


### rule. First, the EPA should ensure that carbon 13



### off

- set credits are allocated among NGS's owners 14


### in a way that avoids any increase in the cost of 15



### NGS power. 16


### The second issue involves the pending 17



### lawsuit challenging the BART final rule. We 18


### believe, strongly believe that the EPA must allow 19


### adequate flexibility in the final rule to address 20


### the possibility that the Court overturns EPA's 21



### BART rule. 22

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### Finally, the community appreciates EPA's 1


### recognition that c ompliance with the clean power 2


### plan rule at NGS, unlike at the other power 3


### plants in Indian Country affects not only the 4


### tribe where the plant is located, but many other 5


### tribes, such as the community that rely on the 6


### NGS for federally guaranteed water deli very. 7



### For this reason EPA must continue to 8


### consult with the tribes, like the Hue Indian 9


### community, my community, as this rulemaking 10


### proceeds. 11


### Once again, thank you for the opportunity 12


### to address EPA on this vitally important issue. 13


### The community looks forward to continued 14


### government to government consultation with the 15


### EPA on the proposed rule and other issues at NGS. 16


### (Speaking in native language.) 17



### MR. GREEN: Lieutenant Governor Lewis I 18


### have just one question. I just want to be clear 19


### that your recomm endation was that the carbon 20


### credits would go to the owners of the NGS and not 21


### to the community itself? 22

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### MR. LEWIS: That's correct. And also, 1


### you know, we're concerned about any increase in 2



### costs as well. 3


### MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very 4



### much. Mr. Deal. 5


### MR. DEAL: Greetings. Good morning. My 6


### name is Percy Deal, I'm 65 years old. I live in 7


### the Black Mesa Region on the Navajo Reservation 8


### about 15 miles south of Peabody Coal Mine. 9


### I'm here again, today, before EPA panel 10


### to express my support for t he President's Climate 11


### Action Plan for the country and expressing my 12


### concern for the EPA's plan to accept an 13


### alternative to the Navajo Nation, which is a 14


### deviation from the rest of the country's for 15



### clean air. 16


### I'm also resubmitting my statement that I 17



### ma de in Denver in July of this year. It's 18



### attached to it. 19


### My concern are as follows. Number one, 20


### the Navajo Nation president, Ben Shelly, in his 21



### clean or rather the

-- his carbon team plan have 22

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### not shared with the general Navajo public, 1


### including myself, their plan. There has been no 2


### public hearing conducted on the Navajo land. I 3


### do not even know if the Navajo Nation Council had 4


### their input into this plan. 5


### My understanding, number two, is 6


### President Shelly's plan will change only by five 7


### to six percent f rom what it has been the past 40 8


### years. This percentage is extremely small 9


### compared to EPA's recommendation at 24. Arizona, 10


### at 52 percent, New Mexico and Colorado at 34 11


### percent. This plan certainly does not address 12


### the climate change in the Southwest Un ited 13



### States. 14


### Number four. Or, number three. Under 15


### the current percentage operation will continue at 16


### the same rate for the life of the power plants 17



### and the coal mine. This translates to continued 18


### use of water at the same rate, either from the 19



### River or th e in aquifers. Furthermore, Peabody 20


### is pumping pristine water from Black Mesa. This 21


### water is not used by Navajo residents, 22

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### businesses, schools, or hospital. 1


### Number four, power plants, NGS, and the 2


### Four Corners Power Plant, and the coal mine, 3


### Peabody and Navajo Mine, has been in existent on 4


### the Navajo Reservation for over 50 years. These 5


### industries are among the worst in the country. 6


### Arguments are made by the outside interests such 7


### as APS, SRP, politician, now the federal 8


### government by reducing that

-- t hat by reducing 9


### pollutant on the Navajo Reservation will hurt the 10


### economy such as job and revenue. 11


### True, these industry brought jobs. But 12


### over the years the number of jobs have declined. 13


### Number five, there has been absolutely no 14


### new job or revenue multi pliers on the Navajo 15



### Reservation as a result of these industries. 16


### Yes, there are many businesses and job created 17



### off the reservation in border towns such as 18


### Farmington, Page, Flagstaff, and even here in 19



### Phoenix. 20


### A study recently done by Arizona State 21



### Uni versity could not verify any job or revenue 22

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### multiplier on the Navajo Reservation. The people 1


### not living on Navajo land in Arizona, California, 2


### and Nevada will continue to enjoy cheap power and 3


### water at the expense of Navajo people's health. 4


### This proposed plan will prolong the social and 5


### environmental injustice for the Navajo people. 6



### I understand the industries are 7


### conducting environment impact statement. But 8


### these studies do not include impact on the health 9


### of the people or the impact on the water. 10



### Pres ident Shelly's plan proposes a small change 11


### towards reducing hazardous pollutant. The 12


### continued operation in the next decade will cause 13


### further harm to the health of the people and the 14



### health of the water. There has been no health 15


### impact study on the Nav ajo

-- on Navajo land. 16


### A recent survey by the Navajo Nation 17


### conducted, states that asthma and respiratory 18


### illness on the Navajo land is almost at the same 19


### rate as the United States. With the high rate of 20


### respiratory illness on Navajo land, many are in 21



### p oor health already with little resources to 22

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### address the rising health costs. Why add to it? 1


### The emission from these power plant or 2


### coal plant, coal power plant, must also include 3


### other pollutant, not just carbon. Coal plant add 4


### millions of tons of pollut ant to the air that we 5


### breath every day and we deserve nothing less than 6



### the same eco

- protection that's being granted to 7


### every American across the Country. 8


### Could I add just a couple of other 9



### comment to it? 10



### MR. GREEN: Sure. 11


### MR. DEAL: I wanted to also say that 12


### please do not

-- please do something about our 13


### concern. The president and his carbon team did 14


### not consult with us as a population of the Navajo 15


### Reservation. Don't just take our statement and 16


### say that you have consulted with us. My mom and 17



### dad live in the area all their lives. My dad 18


### expired at a hundred years and seven months. My 19


### mom expired at 93. They talked about plenty of 20


### clean water and clean air. They both died of 21



### natural causes. 22

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### I want to live in the world that they 1



### lived in; the clean ai r that they spoke of, the 2


### clean water that they spoke of. That's what I 3


### want. It's in your hand to do something about 4


### that and help me live that. Remember I said, I'm 5


### 65 years old so there's not much time to help me 6


### live that world that they lived in. 7


### Native American has always been 8



### mistreated since the arrival of Columbus. I see 9


### your plan as adding to the history. Please don't 10


### add to the history. Give it

-- 11


### MR. GREEN: I do need you to wrap it up, 12


### Mr. Deal. Thank you. Go ahead and finish. 13



### MR. DEAL : Thank you. 14


### MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very 15


### much. If you would, would you be sure and leave 16


### a statement up at the registration desk so we can 17


### get a copy of your statement on the docket too? 18


### MR. DEAL: Thank you. 19


### MR. GREEN: Thank you. Next we have Andy 20


### Bessler and Stephen Brittle. Mr. Bessler will go 21



### first. 22

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### MR. BESSLER: Thank you. My name is Andy 1


### Bessler. I'm the project director for the 2



### National Travel Air Association. NTA is an 3


### autonomous organization with 85 principle member 4



### tribes. T he organization's mission is to advance 5


### air quality management policies and programs 6


### consistent with the needs, interest, and unique 7


### legal status of Indian tribes. 8



### As such the NTA uses its resources to 9


### support the efforts of all federally recognized 10



### trib es and protecting and improving the air 11


### quality within their respective jurisdictions. 12


### Although the Organization always seeks to 13


### represent consensus perspectives on any given 14


### issue, it is important to note that the views 15


### expressed by the NTA may not be agr eed upon by 16


### all tribes. Further, it is also important that 17



### EPA understands interactions with NTA do not 18


### substitute for government to government 19


### consultations which can only be achieved through 20



### direct communication between the federal 21


### government and Indian tribes. 22

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### The NTA approves of the framework of the 1


### Clean Power Plan and in general supports EPA's 2


### efforts to develop and enforce regulations which 3


### reduce greenhouse gas emissions. These standards 4


### will help reduce carbon dioxide emissions from 5


### existing el ectrical generation units that have 6


### gone uncontrolled for a very long time, as well 7



### as co

- pollutants, including air toxics like 8


### mercury which pose serious health concerns to 9


### great environment quality and threaten bio

10


### diversity in the national environment. 11


### The NTA has provided comments and 12



### recommendations to the EPA on the Clean Power 13


### Plan's four building blocks, multi

- state plans, 14


### cap and trade programs, environmental justice, 15



### and tribal consultations. These comments 16



### submitted on October 15th of 2014 are included by 17


### reference for the supplemental plan being 18


### discussed here today, and more detailed comments 19


### on the Clean Power Plan's supplemental rule for 20


### Indian Country will be provided by NTA in the 21


### coming weeks. 22

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### Although this supplemental rule relates 1



### to o nly four power plants, greenhouse gas 2


### emissions from these four power plants 3


### cumulatively contribute to the greenhouse gas 4


### emissions warming our planet and changing our 5


### climate. To help understand and adapt to this 6


### growing problem NTA produced the 2014 St atus of 7


### Tribal Air Report, that in part recorded specific 8


### impacts that a changing climate brings to Indian 9


### tribes and traditional life ways. 10



### Indian tribes are affected much 11


### differently than the rest of the nation because 12


### their cultures are integrated into the ecosystems 13


### of North America. And many tribal subsistence 14


### diets and economies are heavily dependent on the 15


### use of fish, wildlife, and native plants which 16


### are directly threatened by climate change. 17


### Even more, tribal economies are 18


### integrated into the n ational economy. Tribal 19


### cultural identities continue to be deeply rooted 20


### in the natural environment. As climate change 21


### disrupts biological communities, the survival of 22

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### some tribes' distinct cultures may be at risk. 1


### The loss of traditional cultural pract ices due to 2



### climate driven die

- off or rain shifts of 3


### culturally significant plant and animal species 4


### may prove to be too much for some tribal cultures 5


### to withstand on top of other external pressures 6


### they face. 7


### Climate driven destruction of biological 8



### commu nities is also having considerable affect on 9


### the treaty rights of Indian tribes. Many such 10


### treaties preserve hunting, fishing, and gathering 11


### rights for tribes on the lands in their usual and 12


### accustom areas. Some tribes are finding that 13


### animals and plants on which they depend for their 14


### cultural practices and identity have either 15


### migrated to lands not under their control or have 16


### disappeared all together. 17


### How does one begin to value this type of 18



### loss for a tribe? Here in the southwest 19


### increased aridity th reatens vegetation that is 20


### critical for stabilizing sediments. The loss of 21


### the stabilizing vegetation can lead to more 22

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### severe and frequent dust storms and dune 1


### mobilization. Higher temperatures and increased 2


### droughts will lead to more intense forest fire s 3


### and reduce grazing potential. 4


### NTA encourages EPA to consult with tribes 5


### to fully understand the impacts of climate change 6


### in Indian Country, and to find the best solutions 7



### to achieve affective carbon dioxide emission 8



### reduction. 9


### NTA further encourages th e use of multi

10



### state and multi

- jurisdictional plans in which 11


### states and tribes work together to create plans 12



### to both reduce Co2 and co

- pollutant emissions, 13


### and increase the deployment of clean renewable 14



### energy. 15



### Indian tribes can be treated as states 16



### under Section 301(d) of the Clean Air Act. As 17


### such EPA is obliged to involve them in meetings 18


### with states concerning multi

- state and multi

19


### jurisdictional planning efforts. 20



### The Clean Power Plan indicates that for 21


### many states the renewable portfolio standards 22

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### a llow energy generated by qualifying renewable 1


### energy sources in other states to count toward 2


### meeting such renewable portfolio standards. NTA 3


### finds that this same opportunity should apply to 4


### Indian tribes that could sell renewable energy 5


### generated on their lands to help neighboring 6



### states meet their carbon dioxide emission 7


### reduction requirements. 8


### This mutually beneficial solution would 9


### offer tribes the opportunity to reinvest revenues 10


### for sustainable energy development into their own 11



### economies. NTA recom mends that EPA engage tribes 12


### in a discussion about this opportunity and how it 13


### might fit within this supplemental rule. 14


### Thank you for the opportunity to provide 15



### comments on behalf of the National Tribal Air 16



### Association. 17


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, MR. Bessler . Mr. 18


### Brittle, please state your name and spell your 19


### last name for us, please. 20


### MR. BRITTLE: My name is Stephen Brittle, 21



### B

- R

- I

- T

- T

- L

- E, like peanut brittle. I'm the 22

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### President of Don't Waste Arizona, a nonprofit 1


### 501(c)(3) organization based in Phoenix. 2



### Don't Waste Arizona has had member 3


### organizations as part of its family of grassroots 4


### organizations that are concerned about the 5


### environment and environmental justice. We were 6


### fiscal sponsor for a group called the Dine Lands, 7



### which was concerned about the coal mining and the 8


### forced relocation of traditional Dine to make way 9


### for the Peabody Coal Mine, and helped get the 10


### first superfund investigation on the Navajo 11


### Nation due to the coal mining effects. 12



### Don't Waste Arizona is also a fiscal 13


### sponsor for the Hop i traditionalists in Hota 14


### Villa. Native American lands are routinely 15


### targeted for polluting industries and 16


### exploitation. I noted, when I first went to 17


### visit our member organizations, I wondered why 18


### the sky was getting dark, and it was because of 19



### all the air pollution. When I return there I 20


### still see the same problem. It's appalling. 21



### And I know because of what I know that we 22

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### have hydrogen fluoride. We have persistent 1


### biological toxins. We have hydrogen fluoride and 2


### mercury. These are things that no on e should 3



### have to live with. 4


### In Arizona we have seen a propaganda 5


### campaign against the EPA, demonizing it and our 6


### president for finally implementing the 1990 Clean 7


### Air Act amendments, where we're doing what we're 8


### doing today. This is certainly long overdue

. 9


### This was passed under George H. W. Bush. 10


### But there's always been some excuse for 11


### not implementing this law, good economy or bad 12


### economy, there's always some excuse. The profits 13


### of energy corporations and entities that are 14


### entirely non

- native, are reall y are what is at 15


### stake here, hence the latest propaganda and hate 16


### speech. 17


### This is an environmental justice issue, 18


### where a disproportionate amount of pollution and 19


### risk are foisted upon the local people of color 20


### who do not get any economic benefit, even t hough 21


### they're directly affected. No matter what the 22

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### ethnic composition of an EGA issue, there are 1


### those who would profit at the expense of a few, 2



### and these interests have their own minions to run 3



### interference for them no matter what the 4


### organization or et hnicity. 5


### There's certainly a disconnect between 6


### the Navajo Nation leadership and the people who 7


### are directly affected. We also recognize the 8


### economic realities of the Navajo Nation, which 9


### depends on coal mining royalties for its budget. 10


### But we pointed ou t to them 20 years ago, and 11


### they've been successful now in making the BIA go 12



### after

-- get class action lawsuit to get more of 13


### the royalty money that they should have gotten 14


### all along through Peabody Coal. They've recently 15


### reached settlement with that, fin ally. 16


### But the whole thing has been stacked 17


### against the Navajos. And we would like to see 18


### them break through the pendency on just coal 19


### royalties. 20


### The opportunity we have here is an 21


### enormous economic expansion opportunity. There 22

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### can be diversification e nergy generation on the 1


### Navajo Nation. There's already an energy 2


### transmission corridor and infrastructure, plenty 3


### of open land and potential, particularly for 4


### solar, and to some extent for wind on the Navajo 5


### Nation. This is an enormous economic opportuni ty 6


### for sustainable jobs in an industry that would 7


### help with the economy and the chronic 8


### unemployment on the Navajo Nation, as well as the 9


### environmental benefits of less air pollution and 10


### coal ash ways. 11


### Solar energy employs more people per 12



### kilowatt

- hour g enerated than coal fired energy. 13


### This also opens the door for other tribes and 14


### states to site solar energy facilities on the 15


### Navajo Nation to help their carbon balances and 16


### impacts. And this would be widespread across all 17


### Native American lands. Long ove rdue and welcome 18



### now. 19


### We are citizens of a planet that is 20


### threatened by global warming and ocean 21


### acidification from coal being burned. We must 22

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### now do our part. And again, this is a great 1


### economic opportunity. It would be racist and 2



### discrimination to not require the same rules as 3


### to have been promulgated for non

- native lands, to 4


### not be required on Native American lands. 5


### And in a final note, I've been watching 6



### and involved in this whole discussion about the 7


### CAP. And it is operating under the illusion and 8



### the fiction that there will even be water for the 9


### CAP by the year 2044, when the $500 million a 10


### year payment finally expires. Long before 2044. 11


### There will not be water running in the CAP 12


### because the Colorado River is diminishing. 13


### By the end of this decad e we won't even 14


### see power being generated at Hoover Dam. So all 15


### of this is a big ploy that's going to fail 16


### because of the coal fired electricity that's 17


### causing a global warming disaster and crisis. 18


### Thank you. 19


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Brittle. Next 20



### up we have Colleen Cooley and Hanson Ashley. 21


### Colleen Cooley will go first. I'll both have you 22

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### please repeat your names and spell your last 1


### name. Thank you. 2


### MR. ASHLEY: My name is Hanson Ashley. 3



### Last name, A

- S

- H

- L

- E

- Y. 4


### MS. COOLEY: Did you say I'm first? 5


### Okay. 6



### MR. GREEN: Yes. 7


### MS. COOLEY: My name is Colleen Cooley. 8



### Last name is C

- O

- O

- L

- E

- Y. My name is Colleen 9


### Cooley and I am from the community of Shonto, 10


### Arizona. For 15 years of my life I have lived 11


### within 70 miles of two of the worst power plants 12



### in the country, the Navajo Generating Station and 13



### the Four Corners Power Plant. 14


### Both of these power plants are located on 15


### the Navajo Nation. The distance may not seem 16


### relevant but it was enough to spark my interest 17


### in high school and in college to research and 18


### understand the complexities of how these power 19


### plants have affected the land, the air, the 20


### water, and the health of our people for the past 21


### 50 years. 22

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### I know these power plants have provided 1


### jobs and revenue for the Navajo Nation, but I 2



### also know the se power plants are old and they do 3


### not directly provide electricity for the people 4


### residing on the Navajo Nation. The power is 5


### owned by non

- Navajo utility companies and is 6



### delivered to Southern Arizona and Southern New 7


### Mexico. And from there our Navajo tribal utility 8


### authority purchases the power back from these 9


### companies, and in order to provide electricity to 10


### its Navajo customers residing on the Navajo 11



### Nation. 12


### In addition the Navajo Nation has zero 13


### percent ownership of these plants. Billions of 14


### gallon s of water has been pumped from Lake Powell 15


### and the San Juan River to cool the units down, 16


### and the emissions from these power plants have 17


### affected the environment and the people, both on 18



### and off the reservation. Emissions from these 19


### power plants do not st ay on the Navajo Nation. 20


### They travel to nearby towns, national parks, and 21



### waterways. 22

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### So it doesn't make sense that the power 1


### plants on Indian Country were exempt from this 2


### strong Clean Power Plan proposed by the rest of 3


### the country, and now a weak suppl emental proposal 4


### has been issued by EPA. I do want to thank EPA 5


### for proposing the Clean Power Plan and its 6


### supplemental proposal to help curb the number one 7


### source of carbon pollution on a national level 8


### and within Indian Country. 9


### However, the supplementa l proposal only 10


### reduces emissions by at least four percent for 11


### both power plants by 2030, which does not provide 12


### equal protections as proposed for the rest of 13



### Arizona and New Mexico. How will our communities 14


### and future generations benefit from just a four 15


### percent reduction? Why should our communities 16


### continue to suffer from the climate disruption 17


### that we have already faced for many years? We 18



### deserve the same treatment as the rest of the 19



### country. 20


### Yes, I know that NGS and the Four Corners 21



### Power Plant have shut down at least one of their 22

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### units to reduce their emissions, but that should 1


### not excuse them from reducing even more emissions 2


### for the next 15 years. Not only should both 3


### power plants continue to reduce their carbon 4


### emissions, they should transition a t least 30 5


### percent of their plants to cleaner energy by 6



### 2030. 7


### The Navajo Nation has the potential and 8



### resources to start this transition now in order 9


### to provide a place to live for future 10


### generations. I am a young Dine woman and I 11


### obtained a master's deg ree, but one does not need 12


### to have a college degree to understand that the 13


### climate is rapidly changing. The whole world 14


### knows it and there are many taking action now to 15


### put a stop to the fossil fuel industry that has 16


### profited billions of dollars off our r esources. 17


### I am one of many here today to speak up 18


### for the protection of Mother Earth and for those 19


### who may not have the courage to speak up, and for 20


### those who are not able to attend this hearing. 21


### Many are worried that climate change will 22

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### cause more dam age to the environment, so it is 1


### very important that we transition to clean energy 2


### sources such as wind and solar. No more excuses, 3


### no more delays, no more emissions. The Danau 4


### people and other tribes deserve an equally strong 5


### plan as the rest of the cou ntry, to protect our 6


### life ways, the health of our people, and the 7


### health of the land, water, and air. 8


### We are not fortunate enough to just 9


### relocate from our communities if they get 10


### destroyed by catastrophic events such as 11



### wildfires and flash floods. We h ave suffered the 12


### burden of climate injustices for far too long and 13


### it needs to stop now. 14


### I strongly urge the EPA and Navajo Nation 15


### to consider my testimony and make the necessary 16


### changes to the supplemental proposal to be 17


### inclusive and fair to all living things. We are 18


### all equal and we all deserve clean air and clean 19


### water. Thank you. 20


### MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. Mr. 21


### Ashley. 22

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### MR. ASHLEY: All right. Hello. Hello. 1


### (Speaking in native language.) I am from 2


### Southeast Utah, which is overrun a lot by 3


### fracking, which I guess provides a lot of jobs 4



### but it also causes a lot of carbon monoxide to 5


### leak into the air, which often at least, more 6


### than once a week I go outside and I smell the 7



### carbon monoxide. 8


### And, I don't know, I notice the proposals 9



### for comme nts on issues related to those 10


### territories and I thought it would be good to 11


### come here and voice some opinion on that. 12


### With that said, although the jobs provide 13


### many an opportunity, it also leaves to question 14


### what happens to our moral character as Native 15


### American people and our value systems, and how 16


### much they're changing so much into very 17



### materialistic conventions. 18


### So I really applaud that these proposals 19


### are coming through, but I'm afraid that they 20


### might be going a little too slowly. And in order 21



### to make some differences it would be really great 22

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### if we could get more

-- get this information more 1


### publicly pushed to our people instead of hiding 2


### behind all this jargon and technical jargon that 3


### really confuses people, our people, who are also 4


### trying to hav e, you know

-- use their second 5


### language and also maybe aren't aware of these 6


### terms and stuff. So, thank you very much. 7


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Ashley. Thank 8


### you, both. 9


### Our next speakers will be, and I hope I 10


### pronounce this correctly, Jacey Brown and Thurman 11



### Thomas. 12


### Please repeat your name and spell your 13


### last name for the court reporter. Thank you. 14


### Mr. Brown will go first. 15



### MR. BROWN: Jacey Brown, B

- R

- O

- W

- N. 16


### MS. MCKELLY: Can you move the microphone 17


### down a little bit? Thank you. 18



### MR. BROWN: Jace y. 19



### MS. MCKELLY: Got you. 20



### MR. BROWN: B

- R

- O

- W

- N. 21


### MS. MCKELLY: Thank you. 22

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### MR. GREEN: Great. Go ahead, Mr. Brown. 1


### MR. BROWN: Good morning, this is

-- kind 2


### of afraid to speak. 3


### MS. MCKELLY: You're doing well. 4


### MR. GREEN: That's all right. We are too 5


### when we speak, so don't worry about it. 6


### MR. BROWN: One day me and my dad, we 7


### went on a trip to Morgan Lake and people kept 8


### telling us that fish had like three eyes, two 9


### heads, and I don't like it. And the power plants 10


### are causing that and I just want cle an air, not 11


### pollution. And I please need your help and thank 12



### you. 13


### MS. MCKELLY: Thank you. Thank you. 14


### MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. Good 15


### job. 16



### MR. BROWN: You're welcome. 17



### MR. GREEN: Mr. Thomas. 18


### MR. THOMAS: Hi. My name is Thurman 19


### Thomas, T

- H

- O

- M

- A

- S . Hello, everybody. 20



### MR. GREEN: Go ahead. 21


### MR. THOMAS: All right. I'm sorry. I'm 22

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### very emotional. 1


### (Crying.) 2


### MR. THOMAS: I'm sorry. It takes a lot 3


### to put me down. It's just that I have a newborn 4


### daughter and I care so much about her and we live 5



### close to the power plant around where we live. 6


### And I just worry so much about her. I just want 7


### clean air for her. She's everything for me. I 8


### just think about her. I don't want her growing 9


### up to the air is dirty like this. It just hurts 10


### me so much. It's j ust all I worry about is her. 11


### So, that's all I want is clean air so she 12


### can grow up healthy and happy. I don't want to 13


### deal with all this. Thank you. 14


### MS. MCKELLY: Thank you. 15


### MR. GREEN: Thank you. And your daughter 16


### is lucky to have you as a father. 17



### Al l right. Why don't we take a 10

- minute 18


### break now, give everybody an opportunity to 19


### stretch their legs. And we'll start again at 20


### 10:50. Thank you very much. 21


### (Recess from 10:39 a.m. until 10:51 a.m.) 22

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### MR. GREEN: All right. We are going to 1


### go ahead and re convene. We have Marshal Johnson 2


### and Raina Silver up here with us. Mr. Johnson 3


### will speak first. I'd like to ask both of you 4


### before you speak to repeat your name and spell 5


### your last name for the court reporter, please. 6


### MR. JOHNSON: My name is Marshal Johnson, 7



### last name J

- O

- H

- N

- S

- O

- N. 8


### (Speaking in native language.) 9


### MR. GREEN: Mr. Johnson, I assume you're 10


### going to translate what you're saying for us, or 11


### would you like for us to get the translator up 12



### here? 13


### MR. JOHNSON: Okay. I just identified 14



### myse lf of the clans I

-- and my mother's clan, my 15


### father's clan, and then my maternal father's 16


### clan, my maternal father's clan. So that was my 17


### identity and I just wanted

-- I thanked EPA for 18


### allowing us to present to you today, so I hope 19


### that you take this to your peace of mind and 20


### heart, what we have to share. That's what I 21



### said. 22

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### My name is Marshal Johnson. I am a 1


### member of Arizona grassroots organization based 2


### on Black Mesa, Northeast Arizona and the Navajo 3



### Dine Reservation. I believe EPA should be able 4



### t o protect public health and safety. 5


### The emissions from the coal fire power 6


### plant are harming human health, Navajo Generating 7


### Station and Four Corners. This is something the 8


### Navajo Nation knows far too well. Emissions from 9


### Navajo Generating Station and fi ve other coal

10


### fired power plants in the region is harming 11



### tribal health. 12


### A host of respiratory illness plagued 13


### those living on Black Mesa with bronchitis and 14


### black lung disease and asthma. But it is not 15


### just a coal fire

-- it is not coal pollution air 16



### w e breathe that is making us sick. Many people 17


### know that Peabody Coal mines coal on Black Mesa. 18


### But Peabody Coal is mining water to supply it's 19


### power plant and mining activities. The Navajo 20


### Sandstone aquifer, which underlies Black Mesa is 21



### the sole source of drinking water for Black Mesa, 22

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### and the Western Navajo Nation. Not only is our 1


### water depleted and desecrated, our water, our 2


### air, and the land is contaminated with all phases 3


### of coal use from mining to so

- called disposable 4



### coal ash. 5



### All this is to su pply the so

- called low

6


### cost energy for the low

- cost energy and water for 7



### the State of Arizona. 8



### For this rule to be effective EPA should 9


### look at all stages and impacts of coal and fossil 10


### fuel and gas, natural nuclear power plant. For 11



### this all rolls into what comes from the smoke 12


### stack and blows into the water and winds up in 13



### the bodies of humans and of all divine creation. 14


### What is taking place today was identified 15


### by EPA and Department of Interior, 1970. Before 16


### Navajo Generating Station was built there was a 17


### big power plant in the planning. Due to the 18



### emissions that could affect the Four Corners that 19



### was

-- that didn't go through. But this is 20


### knowledge that you already know, EPA, that there 21


### is going to be emissions problems, issues, today. 22

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### So, we ar e having

-- we are downwind from 1


### Navajo Generating Station and Four Corners Power 2


### Plant. And the only feedback we get from the 3


### Department of Interior as our trust responsible 4


### party is that they hold trust responsibility for 5


### 10 tribes in Southern Arizona, which is supplied 6


### with Central Arizona Project water. 7


### The only way Center Arizona Project water 8


### can be in their faucet is with our Navajo 9


### Sandstone Aquifer supplying for mining activities 10


### on Black Mesa, which has depleted our aquifers 11


### and our springs for our livelihood anymore. And 12


### the energy that is produced at Navajo Generating 13


### Station, only you identified, EPA, 320 megawatts 14


### is needed to push the water from Lake Havasu to 15



### Tucson. 16


### So if you look at that there's 2,250 17


### megawatts being produced. The res t of it is all 18


### for profit. This is just a profit issue. This 19


### is not a health issue. So you need to change the 20


### stance and look from our perspective. Our 21


### livelihood has been impacted. Our way of life, 22

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### our way of worship, has been impacted. We should 1



### be providing hers to these springs which don't 2


### produce anymore. You have violated our way of 3


### worship, freedom of religion. Thank you. 4


### MS. MCKELLY: Thank you. 5


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Ms. 6



### Silver. 7


### MS. SILVER: Hello. Good morning. My 8



### name is Raina Silver. That's S

- I

- L

- V

- E

- R. And 9


### this morning I will be speaking on behalf of 10


### Nichole Horse herder, a co

- founder of (speaking 11


### in native language) which is an indigenous 12


### environmental group working to protect the Navajo 13


### environmental heritage. And that directly 14


### translates to beautiful spring speaks, and the 15



### voice

-- Navajo Voice for Clean Air. 16



### President Obama and his Environmental 17


### Protection Agency are pushing to clean up the 18


### oldest and dirtiest power plants all across our 19


### nation. Unfortunately fo r Dine Navajo people 20


### this will be a long road. Navajo Generating 21


### Station, the nation's only coal power plant where 22

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### the United States Government is an operator, 1


### would have been a good place to start. Instead 2


### the people of the Navajo nation will be left 3



### br eathing poisons for another three decades. 4



### Located on the northwestern side of the 5


### Navajo Nation's 27,000 square miles, near the 6


### city of Page, Arizona, NGS is the largest coal 7


### fire power plant on the Colorado Plateau, and one 8


### of the 10 biggest polluters in this country. 9


### Now, after years of delay, rather than 10


### holding the federal owners to the requirements of 11


### the Clean Air Act, EPA administrators, Dena 12


### McCarthy caved. In a July 28th editorial this 13


### newspapers allotted McCarthy's decision for 14


### striking a balanc e between cleaner air and 15


### economic good sense. But compromising the health 16


### and cultural integrity of people whose homelands 17


### surrounds the power plants for the sake of coal 18


### jobs and cheap power to pump the Colorado River

- 19



### - Colorado River, water is not jus t a balance. 20


### My people still eat the sheep and cattle 21


### they raise, as well as the corn and squash they 22

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### grow. Our animals and crops are directly 1


### impacted by the pollution emitted from this 40 2



### year

- old generating station. My people are not 3


### only breathing i n the pollution but are also 4


### ingesting the toxins that fall upon the 5


### vegetation, crops, and animals. 6


### EPA was supposed to clean up NGS's 7


### emissions within five years. Administrator 8


### McCarthy should have acquired the federal 9


### operator, the U.S. Bureau of Rec lamation, to cut 10


### smog forming nitrogen oxide currently spewing 11


### from the stacks by 85 percent by 2020. 12


### Those improvements would have ended 13


### generations of disappropriate health impacts to 14


### my people from the plant's pollution, and clear 15


### up hazy vistas in the Grand Canyon National Park. 16


### Ending the United States' Government's 17


### interest in this dirty coal plant would have also 18


### spurred needed investment in renewable energy on 19


### tribal lands and keep water flowing to every 20


### thirsty metropolitan areas, benefiting the 21



### A rizonians and my community. 22

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### Instead, NGS is located on an Indian 1



### reservation. EPA watered down the Clean Air Act 2


### requirements and adopted a plan to let the power 3


### plants to keep polluting until 2044, continuing a 4


### legacy of asthma, bronchitis, and choking h aze. 5


### Fifty years ago the Department of 6


### Interior, promising jobs and as steady flow of 7


### income, persuaded the Navajo Nation and the Hopi 8


### to waive substantial water rights and allow NGS 9


### construction. Some of those jobs remain, but 10



### most of the revenue has f lowed out along with the 11


### electricity. While soot, smog, mercury, and 12



### toxic coal combustion waste remain. 13



### The White House and the EPA should have 14


### started their dirty power plants' clean up, and 15


### the dirty fuel energy system they directly 16



### control. Instead they decided to make families 17


### living in the shadows of these smoke stacks wait 18


### for the longest for clean air and a healthful 19


### environment. Thank you. 20


### MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you, both. 21


### We're going to check for the next speakers. All 22

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### right. Thank you. I hope I pronounce this 1


### right. Wahleah Johns and Nadine Padilla. And 2


### just as a reminder, if there's anybody else that 3


### wants to speak that hasn't registered, if you go 4


### out to the registration desk, they'll sign you up 5


### to speak. 6


### All right. Ms. Joh ns will go first. 7


### Please repeat your name and spell your last name 8


### for the court reporter, please. 9


### MS. JOHNS: Wahleah Johns, W

- A

- H

- L

- E

- A

- H, 10


### and last name is Johns, J

- O

- H

- N

- S. 11


### Greetings. Thank you for coming to 12


### Arizona. I wanted to bring this map for 13


### everybody from our home in Navajo area, and the 14


### blue is where the Navajo Nation is if you're not 15


### familiar. I take it you're not from here in the 16


### Southwest, are you? 17



### MR. GREEN: No. 18


### MS. JOHNS: No. Okay. So this shows how 19


### big our reservation is and it go es into Utah, New 20


### Mexico, and Arizona. And we have about five coal 21


### plants, five to seven that are in the region. 22

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### And these are big coal plants. The Navajo 1


### Generating Station, San Juan Power Plant, and the 2


### Four Corners Power Plant, Escalante, Cholla and 3



### Coronado. 4


### And the reason why we wanted to show this 5


### is just, we understand how the electricity is 6


### being generated using the coal from

-- I'm from 7


### Black Mesa Region, a place called Tonajona 8


### (phonetic) which is right here in this area. And 9


### that's just nor th of Hopi Tribe, and we've been 10


### seeing the impacts for over 40 years of coal 11


### mining and health impacts. And yes, it's 12


### provided jobs, and it's provided living for our 13


### people and our nation and economy, but also the 14


### assessment of the health impacts is lack ing. The 15


### assessment for evaluating the fossil fuel driven 16


### economy that the U.S. policies, and the energy 17


### policies have created, the federal agencies that 18


### have created the dependency for Indian tribes 19


### like ours, to extract our natural resources for 20


### 50 year s to be able to generate a really 21


### unsustainable and healthy colonies. So there's 22

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### energy colonies on our homelands, on our 1


### reservation, and there's energy

-- and it's 2


### supported other colonies throughout Indian 3


### Country, throughout North America, throughout the 4



### world. 5


### And I say this because there is a deep 6



### connection to how colonies were formed here in 7


### the United States, and we have to look back at 8


### that. This, you know, trauma that has occurred 9


### against the indigenous peoples, indigenous 10


### people's rights. R ights of Mother Earth is not 11


### being discussed around these policies as they're 12


### being developed. 13



### I sat on the committee for the EPA to 14


### give recommendations to the EPA on the 15


### environmental justice and the impacts of 16


### indigenous peoples. In there, if you rea d it, I 17


### don't know if you're familiar with it, but it 18


### describes even forums like this to be culturally 19



### sensitive to communities like ours. We have 20


### elders here that speak Navajo. We want Navajo 21


### translators. You know, those service provided. 22

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### We want you to come to our community so we can 1


### have more people participate. 2


### These are the, you know, simple asks and 3


### requests that we put in that policy and I really 4


### want to recommend that to you in your future 5


### plans for developing a clean power plan because 6



### not on ly does this affect our communities up here 7


### in this region, but throughout Indian Country. 8



### And on the consultation there was a consultation 9


### with three tribes in the region. Navajo Nation 10


### was one of them. I ask you to also consult 11


### Navajo tribal members, and local leaders. We 12



### have 110 communities. 13


### And so when you meet with one or two 14


### people from the Navajo Administration, you're not 15


### meeting with the people. And so we have people 16


### that come long ways just to give their input 17


### because the perspective is quit e different. It's 18


### about health, it's about the wellbeing and our 19


### connection to Mother Earth. And it's about jobs, 20


### it's about trying to transition off fossil fuels. 21


### And the four building blocks that you have, 22

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### they're in a good direction. 1



### But for our tr ibe, you know, to hold our 2


### tribe accountable to make a decision on, you 3


### know, transitioning to, whether it's natural gas 4


### or renewable energy, we want to have input on 5


### that because we know its going to occur on our 6



### lands and that transition needs to be from the 7


### ground up. 8



### And the other comment I wanted to make 9


### was I wanted to make, that natural gas isn't the 10


### best way to go as far as transition; that there 11


### really needs to be 100 percent renewable energy 12


### and solar/wind efforts, that you are just 13


### creating anoth er little colony somewhere else, 14


### and dependency on somebody's water, somebody's 15


### you know, quality of air, and somebody's families 16



### that have to breath these toxins. 17



### And there's 20 million tons of Co2 that 18


### comes out of Navajo Generating Station. They get 19



### th eir coal from the Black Mesa Mine here. And 20


### this provides energy to all of Arizona, like I 21


### said, and that moves water up hill for Phoenix 22

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### and Tucson. 1


### And like many people have said, at the 2


### burden of our families and the way of life that 3



### we want to susta in as indigenous peoples. And we 4


### have every right to talk about that. And you all 5


### have the responsibility to listen to these 6


### comments that we're making, and to respond and 7



### work with us as tribal communities for 8


### environmental justice because it's within y our 9


### own policy that you created as well, to make a 10


### priority of environmental justice and stop 11


### environmental racism, and protect the rights of 12


### indigenous peoples. Not only here, but 13


### throughout the world. 14


### So I just wanted to say thank you again 15



### for

-- I'll be submitting some more comments, but 16


### for now we just want stronger policies. We want 17


### to make sure that the owners of these power 18


### plants are not Navajo. These owners are APS, 19


### SRP, you know, Tucson Electric, they are Nevada 20


### Power, LA Department of Water a nd Power, you 21


### know, Bureau of Reclamation, and they need to 22

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### work with our tribal communities about that 1


### transition. They're the ones that need to be 2


### making the polluters pay. 3


### MR. GREEN: You need to wrap it up, 4


### please. 5


### MS. JOHNS: Okay. Thank you. 6



### MR. GR EEN: Thank you very much. 7


### MS. PADILLA: Oh, no. It's okay. 8


### MR. GREEN: Are you Nadine Padilla? 9


### MS. PADILLA: Thank you Wahleah, and 10


### thank you. My name is Nadine Padilla. Padilla, 11



### P

- A

- D

- I

- L

- L

- A. 12


### And I am a member of the Navajo Nation. 13



### The EPA's Clean Power Plan for tribal nations is 14


### inadequate. Indian Country deserves no less than 15


### the same strong protections against carbon 16


### pollution in our communities as all other U.S. 17



### Communities. 18


### We are disproportionately impacted by 19


### dirty and dangerous ene rgy projects. It is our 20


### air, land, water, and health that are most 21


### devastatingly impacted. Not only are our 22

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### communities under attack from coal fire power 1


### plants, but also proposed are uranium mine 2


### projects and fracking. 3


### I ask you to take into account the 4


### cumulative impacts from all of these sources as 5


### you make a decision. Our communities are done 6


### being a dumping ground for toxic waste and air 7


### pollution. We are done being a sacrifice zone so 8


### that the rest of the country can benefit. 9


### I ask you to listen to those of us who 10


### are most directly impacted and to use standards 11


### on Indian lands that are equal to the rest of the 12


### country. Our air, land, water, health, 13


### livelihood and spiritual health are all at stake 14


### if the EPA does not provide strong safeguards for 15



### our tribal communities. 16


### These dirty power plants need to be a 17


### thing of the past and we need to move forward to 18


### clean and renewable energy plants that honors our 19


### livelihood. Our communities deserve nothing 20


### less. Thank you. 21


### MR. GREEN: Thank you very much . All 22

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### right. Next we have Graham Beyale. I hope I 1


### pronounced that right. And Kris Barney. And 2


### just as a reminder to everyone, we do have a 3


### translator, so if there is anyone that needs 4


### translation for their testimony we're happy to 5


### provide that as well

. 6


### So Graham Beyale and Kris Barney. Just 7


### one second and we'll see if the other person 8


### shows up. Okay. Sir, what's your name? 9



### MR. BEYALE: Graham. 10



### MR. GREEN: Graham? 11



### MR. BEYALE: Yeah. 12


### MR. GREEN: Okay. So we still need Kris 13



### Barney. 14



### MS. MCKELLY: Th ey're calling him. 15


### MR. GREEN: All right. All right. 16


### Graham you will go first. And just as a 17


### reminder, if the two of you could repeat your 18


### name and spell your last name for the court 19


### reporter that would be great. 20


### MR. BEYALE: All right. Graham Beyale, 21



### B

- E

- Y

- A

- L

- E. (Speaking in native language.) 22

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### Hello, my name is Graham Beyal. I am of 1


### the many Hobans (phonetic) Clan, born from the 2


### Red Bottom People. My maternal grandfather is of 3


### the Red Running into Water people and my maternal 4


### grandfather is of th e Water's Edge people from 5


### Shiprock, New Mexico, which is about 20 miles 6


### from the two power plants, Navajo Generating 7


### Station and Four Corners Power Plant, and I've 8


### lived in Shiprock my entire life. I was born in 9


### Shiprock, went to school in Shiprock, and anyway. 10


### Alright. 11


### So I would agree with many of the 12


### speakers that have come before you in saying that 13


### the regulations for the

-- the proposed 14


### regulations for the emissions reduction that EPA 15


### has proposed for the Navajo Nation are far, far, 16



### far too low at s ix percent, where as New Mexico 17


### is 34 percent and Arizona at 52 percent. 18


### And what I have to say is kind of short 19


### but let's see, it's frustrating. It's 20


### frustrating to know that I'm a sacrifice. That I 21



### am considered a sacrifice because of where I 22

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### live. Okay. We're the ones that have to deal 1


### with the emissions that create the energy to 2


### supply some of the major cities in the Four 3


### Corner states, including Phoenix. The energy to 4


### supply these lights, these speakers, this 5


### controlled climate most likely came from those 6


### power plants, and I'm the one that has to deal 7


### with the suffering of those emissions directly. 8



### It's not statistics or whatever. I have to deal 9



### with it. I have to drink that water. I have to 10



### breathe that air. 11


### I deal with bronchitis on a pre tty 12


### regular basis. I also have asthma and so that's 13


### something that I have to, just saying I guess, 14



### deal with. 15


### Anyway, I've grown up with a mindset that 16



### this is how it

-- this is just how it is. 17



### There's kind of not much that I can do about it. 18


### This is my land, my home, and that will continue 19


### to be hurt and continue to die as I go on through 20


### life. I may not know the statistics on how much 21


### we have lost, but I can see it. 22

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### It no longer snows much in Shiprock and 1


### it rarely rains and with the rain there's al ways 2


### that threat of acid rain, and I grew up on a farm 3


### and I'm a farmer myself, and so that's a huge 4


### issue with the produce and what we grow. 5


### I'm being told, and also I'm being told 6


### year after year that it's also best to stay away 7



### from the San Juan River because of all the 8


### pollution and mercury and whatnot that is put 9



### into the river that

-- because we're downstream 10


### from those power plants. 11


### I see crops not as plentiful. This past 12


### year we had corn that, oh my gosh, there was like 13



### not even

-- it was only a few like four feet, 14


### five feet in. It was crazy. When I was small I 15


### remember those being huge, just huge plants and 16


### the corn being so big and it's not like that 17


### anymore. And again, I have become used to it. 18


### Yeah, I just, I've become used to it and tha t's 19


### like the sad part about it. 20


### And I see the haze that constantly 21


### lingers and surrounds me. You go outside and you 22

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### just see that line of haze that just completely 1


### surrounds me, surrounds our community, and it's 2


### not good. 3


### I see the increase of our peop le having 4


### to deal with respiratory problems such as asthma. 5


### And again, including myself. 6


### I see these problems continue to be 7


### unsolved problems. You are the EPA. It says in 8


### your mission statement that it is your purpose to 9


### ensure that all Americans are p rotected from 10


### significant risks to human health and the 11


### environment where they live, learn, and work. I 12


### am human, I am an American, I wish to be treated 13


### equally. You have that duty to protect this 14


### Earth, and we only have one. So take that 15


### position serio usly and thank you for listening to 16



### me. 17


### MR. GREEN: Thank you very much, Mr. 18


### Beyale. Mr. Barney. 19


### MR. BARNEY: Yes, my name is Kristopher 20



### Barney, B

- A

- R

- N

- E

- Y. And I come before you now 21


### without a prepared statement, prepared statement. 22

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### But my main motivat ion in this life has always 1


### been to live life as a human being and respectful 2


### to the natural elements. As Dine people, as 3


### indigenous people we're taught in various ways to 4


### regard our Mother Earth and Father Sky, and 5


### everything that makes up within those b oundaries, 6


### or within those realms, and the rule with respect 7


### and to regard where we're coming from. 8


### And I, myself, am a farmer, along with 9


### this young gentleman who has spoken. And we

-- 10


### all throughout my life I've seen the degradation 11



### of the environment within my

-- around my 12


### family's land and the surrounding homeland in 13


### regards to the contamination of our water, the 14


### lowering of our springs. 15


### I'm from a community called Rough Rock 16


### and Black Mesa, Arizona. And in several areas 17


### where we had springs and sev eral areas where we 18


### have a lower watershed, that affects us 19


### dramatically with regards to our subsistence 20


### agriculture needs with lifestyle and with growing 21


### our food, and with other activities. 22

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### And so what I want to comment on is the 1



### fact that we have this distractive industry here 2


### that has really put a burden and it's very 3


### detrimental to our health (speaking in native 4


### language) and surrounding tribes and to our 5


### aquifers, to our mountains, and to places that we 6


### hold sacred, which is the whole land in it's 7



### e ntirety and integrity of the land. And if that 8


### is continued to be compromised by the 9


### continuation of all these power plants and 10


### further extractive industries, you know, what do 11


### we have? We don't have anything. It's almost as 12


### if our humanity is devalued. It's almost as if 13


### the things that we speak for, what we have always 14


### stepped good for through our history as stewards 15


### of the land, as caretakers, is almost

-- will be 16


### forgotten, and it's being trampled upon now by 17


### your own people who have elective, who si de with 18


### corporations. And the industry itself and coming 19


### in and proposing these

-- or the divide and 20


### conquer relationships that have transpired 21


### between the federal government corporations and 22

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### our own tribal government. And this I think is 1


### in opposition t o our traditional law and to

-- is 2


### opposition to how we perceive life and the 3


### sacredness of life, the sacredness of water, the 4



### sacredness of soil and air. 5


### And so speaking for myself and for others 6


### who are not here, my family and other things that 7



### I care f or, my animals and my corn field, things 8


### that I as a young man has expressed, you know, 9


### it's just it's really

-- it takes a different

-- 10



### it takes a toll. All of this takes a toll on us 11


### and we have people here who have been struggling, 12


### who have been fighti ng these battles on a 13


### national/international scale. They tried to 14


### bring attention to something as simple as just 15


### reducing the amount of emissions coming out, Co2 16


### that's coming out of the NGS Power Plant, Four 17


### Corners Power Plant, San Juan Power Plant, and 18


### all these other power plants that are burning 19


### coal on our homelands. And I hope that you have 20


### the jurisdiction or some authority to work out in 21


### a diplomatic way with the tribes and energy 22

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### interests to reach a reasonable resolution when 1



### it comes to lookin g at how we can not only 2


### reduce, but possibly as some folks have 3


### suggested, transition to a more sane sustainable 4


### and healthy energy infrastructure. 5


### And so I just want to say these things, 6


### hopefully it is considered. Hopefully this is 7


### not just talk. Hop efully there is something 8


### decided from all this. Hopefully they have the 9


### wisdom and foresight to actually implement 10


### something that will actually see resolution 11



### within our lifetime or within the short

- term 12



### future. 13


### So that's what I want to say here and I 14


### thank you for listening to me and taking my 15


### testimony. (Speaking in native language.) 16


### Thank you. 17


### MS. KING: Thank you. 18


### MS. MCKELLY: Thank you. 19


### MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you both. 20


### All right. Next we have, and I'm sure I'll get 21


### this wrong, Jihan Gear on and Molly Hogue. Jihan 22

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### Gearon is spelled, G

- E

- A

- R

- O

- N. And Molly Hogue. 1


### And once again, we do have a translator if 2


### necessary. Ms. Gearon will go first. 3


### MS. GEARON: Okay. Jihan Gearon. Last 4



### name G

- E

- A

- R

- O

- N. 5


### (Speaking in native language.) 6



### So I introduce myself for all of the 7


### Navajos that came out here, to know who I am. My 8


### name is Jihan. I come from a community on the 9


### Navajo Reservation called Sawmill, Arizona, and I 10


### live in Flagstaff now and I'm the Executive 11



### Director of the Black Mesa Water Coalition. 12


### So thank you for, you know, the time to 13


### speak here and also thank you to all the Dine 14


### people who came from all over the place to come 15


### here too, easily five hours or more to get here, 16


### and who are impacted by these power plants that 17



### we're talkin g about. It really shows how 18


### important this issue is to people there. And it 19


### also brings up a good point of why there is no 20


### hearing or hearings in the regions where these 21


### power plants actually exist and the communities 22

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### who are actually impacted by those power plants. 1


### That's something that needs to happen. 2


### I guess my overall point was that the 3


### proposed reductions for our tribe and these power 4


### plants is simply not enough. Not enough to 5


### address the impacts of climate change that many 6


### people have, you know, shown how they are being 7


### impacted. And also not enough to reduce the 8


### other pollution that comes from these power 9


### plants outside of carbon dioxide, like methane 10


### and sulfur dioxides and nitrous oxides, which 11


### impact people's health and also impacts the wate r 12


### that are used to keep these operations going, and 13


### also impacts our Navajo Nation economy. 14



### I'm not from Black Mesa. I'm not from 15


### around Navajo Generating Station or the Four 16


### Corners Power Plant or San Juan Generating 17


### Station, but as a Navajo, a young Nav ajo person, 18


### I am affected by the fossil fuel industry on the 19


### Navajo nation. 20


### Our organization, Black Mesa Water 21


### Coalition, is really trying to find alternative 22

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### economic development that works for our people, 1


### that builds off a traditional economy, and is 2



### mor e sustainable and in line with our traditional 3


### values and teachings. These are things like how 4


### to improve the wool industry, how to build our 5



### food

-- traditional food economy backup to 6


### provide for our people, and how to promote 7


### renewable energy in these a reas. 8



### And the truth is that the fossil fuel 9


### industry holds us back from that. It keeps us 10


### from going into these other forms of economic 11


### development. 12


### For example, you know, why is it that a 13


### wool washing facility in Hard Rock is considered 14



### unfeasible be cause there's not enough water 15


### resources, yet 15 miles away Peabody Coal Company 16



### is able to use as much water as it wants for 17


### free? You know, we live in a desert, we live in 18


### a high desert and there are precious resources 19



### that we need to use for other thin gs besides 20


### fossil fuel, power plants, and coalmines. 21


### We are in a position where we are 22

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### economic hostages. The Navajo Nation are 1


### economic hostages to the fossil fuel industry and 2


### it's been set up this way. This supplemental 3


### proposal is another example of that because it's 4


### believe off of this false dichotomy between 5


### environmental protection, protections of human 6


### health, and jobs and economy. This is the 7


### position that we're always putting as the Navajo 8


### Nation and as tribal people, is that these two 9


### things c an't go hand in hand. We have to choose 10



### one or the other. And that's where our tribal 11


### leaders operate from, that mindset. 12



### And it is a form of environmental racism. 13


### Environmental racism is alive and strong today on 14


### the Navajo Nation. And that's why mo st Navajo 15



### communities continue to bear the brunt and all 16


### the negative impacts of this industry while down 17


### here, you know, it's, you know, cheap 18


### electricity, cheap water, economic prosperity, 19


### housing going up all over the place, all over the 20


### city. How is t hat possible in the middle of a 21


### desert? That means they're obviously not living 22

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### within their means here in this area, and that's 1


### because we are doing all this work for them, 2


### coming up from the Four Corners and the Navajo 3



### Nation. 4


### So why do we have to conti nue to bear 5


### these negative impacts? Why do we miss out on 6


### this very rare moment in which the EPA is 7


### actually able to mandate and enforce, you know, 8


### these lives. Who knows when we're going to like, 9


### have this chance again, and why are we missing 10



### out on it. As communities we continue to be the 11


### most impacted. 12


### And when do the actual polluters pay for 13


### what they're doing? Why is it on us? Why isn't 14


### it on them to pay for this and to ensure that 15


### people are healthy, to ensure that there's a just 16



### transition for us out of this. 17


### EPA, the laws that you are enforcing now 18


### are a very important way for us to break out of 19


### this position that we're in. And while you have 20


### consulted with our tribal leaders you're hearing 21


### that we often fight against our own tribal 22

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### governmen t to protect ourselves. You know, they 1


### don't necessarily represent us. And again, it's 2


### because they're operating from this economic 3


### hostage mentality in which their focus is on 4


### providing more than the 1,000 jobs that these 5


### coal industries provide. 6



### And it 's your obligation to not only 7


### consult with the tribes, tribal governments, but 8


### also with our own people, so I ask that you 9


### support a transition away from fossil fuels, 10


### support a transition out of the situation they 11


### were in, and enforce these regulations, the same 12


### on the Navajo Nation as every other place in the 13


### United States. Thank you. 14


### MR. GREEN: Thank you. Ms. Hogue. Ms. 15



### Hogue. 16


### (Testimony through an interpreter.) 17


### MS. HOGUE: Hello, all of you. Hello, 18


### all of you here. I want to say a single point 19


### here, and that's why I'm sitting here. The coal 20


### mining surrounding the community from Burnam, the 21


### coalmines are advancing into our area and it's 22

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### not good and we don't like it. 1


### Our sheep, our cattle, have changed their 2


### forage, their grazing areas and we are mindful of 3



### that and we're concerned about that. And that's 4



### what I want to mention here. 5


### The smoke and the pollution is really 6


### encroaching on our land. We live close to the 7


### area and the smoke is always coming on to our 8



### area. There's a lot of dust th at comes with this 9


### development and we don't like it. It's not good. 10


### My husband, Charles Hogue, he died. His 11


### life was taken. His heart was impacted. The 12



### doctors couldn't save him. His life was taken. 13



### He is a veteran and went to the battles and he 14



### de fended the land, and yet the smoke and the 15


### pollution took his life and I'm worried about 16



### that. I think about that. 17


### I was alone and left with the kids, so 18


### this thing really impacts life and health. And 19


### people say that the is rain with it as well. And 20



### we don't like that, and this business about 21


### digging our lands over us and we don't like that, 22

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### and that's what I want to talk to you about. 1


### They have no empathy for us, the people 2


### that live there. So I'm not the only one that is 3


### concerned about this. Many of us are being

-- 4


### our lands are being taken away by the digging of 5


### coal. And that's what I wanted to address here, 6



### to talk about. 7


### There's many things I can say or should 8


### say, but we need to start talking. And talking 9



### is not

-- loses something, and that 's what I want 10


### to say now. Careful planning may help to 11


### overcome this negative effects of coal mining 12


### production, and that's why we're here today, 13


### several of us. And that's what I want to say 14


### here. And thank you for giving me this time. 15



### That's all I wa nt to say now. Thank you. 16


### MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very 17


### much, both of you. 18


### Next we have Jovan Begay and Evelyn 19


### Begay. Jovan Begay will go first, please. 20


### MS. J. BEGAY: My name is Jovan Begay, 21


### and my last name is B

- E

- G

- A

- Y. 22

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### I just wanted to com e and tell, you know, 1


### about my niece. He's got a

-- he has to use a 2



### air for his

-- to breath. So he can't breath on 3


### his own because of the pollution in the air. And 4


### to this day he's had it for I don't know how 5


### long. I know he's got air to use for his l ungs 6



### and he can't breath on his own. And that he 7


### can't breathe on his own and stuff like that, so. 8


### That's all I have to say. 9


### MR. GREEN: I'm sorry, who was that you 10


### were speaking of? 11


### MS. J. BEGAY: My nephew. 12


### MR. GREEN: Your nephew. All right. 13


### Thank yo u very much. Ms. Begay. 14


### MS. E. BEGAY: Good afternoon. My name 15


### is Evelyn H. Begay. I'm from Tuba City, Arizona. 16


### And my main concern is like everybody said, the 17


### air pollution, the mine, the uranium that we live 18


### nearby, I lost a brother because of that, of the 19


### coal mine, about a month ago, to cancer. And I 20


### lost my mom because of his lung

-- her lung, 21


### asthma. That is my main concern. And I lost my 22

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### husband a year ago. He's from Black Mesa where 1


### the mines are being all that pollution, where 2


### they have all the livestock and all the grass. 3


### A week ago I went back up there and I saw 4


### all that pollution out there, all the dust that 5


### they breathe in, and their lifestyle. It's not 6


### like it used to be. How they graze out there, 7


### most of them are just in the corral. They buy 8


### hay from other places to feed their animals and 9


### their main concern was that pollution, that the 10


### water, and some of the relatives, they lost their 11


### livestock because of that. All 40 livestock, 12


### sheep. They drink water and they're all gone. 13


### They die of that. They didn't even know it was 14


### from the mine, but I don't know what the water is 15



### in there that killed all the livestock. 16



### And around our area it's the same too. 17



### We don't have that much rain. We don't have like 18


### when I was a young child it used to be real 19


### pretty land. The trees were green, the flowers 20


### were pretty, and you could breathe in fresh air 21



### and there were

-- our relative, my parents, my 22

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### grandma, my grandpas, and they have a lot of 1


### livestock, animals, cows, horses. They used to 2



### be this b eautiful

-- they would grow, and it used 3


### to rain every Friday where we used to graze. 4


### There used to be beautiful flowers everywhere. 5


### Now I see dead trees, dead flowers. All 6



### I see is dust in the air and that makes our 7



### children breath in that dust. It cau ses asthma, 8


### sickness, and all different kind of health. 9


### When you go to PHS or Indian Hospital all 10


### they give you is medication which has a lot of 11


### side effects that they don't know, that are given 12


### to them, that they take. Take this, take it 13


### home, and that will cure you. That's not it. 14


### Because of that my husband

-- I lost my husband. 15



### It does have a lot of side effects. 16


### That's my main concern. What about our 17


### future, our grandkids, our great grandkids? 18


### I hope somehow they get a good education 19


### and they ca n speak for their

-- for us Navajo 20


### people are in the land. I see some of these 21


### young ladies. They can really speak good English 22

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### and they've written it down, they know what to 1


### say. I love that. I wish in the future some 2


### day, I look forward for them to b e a leader some 3


### day so they can speak for their people. That's 4


### my main concern. And thank you for your patient 5


### and your listening to me. 6


### I hope you take that into consideration 7


### for our elders, what they said. And it was really 8


### emotional. When you lose a person that you love, 9


### cancer, that's what

-- that's how I feel right 10


### now. I'm very emotional because I love my 11



### brother that I lost. We can't cure him. The 12



### doctors can't cure him. That's how we lost him. 13


### He used to work in the Peabody Coal Mine. So 14


### work is not all that. Money is not all that. We 15


### cannot bring him back. 16


### So hopefully I'm very thankful that you 17


### guys are listening to us. I hope what people 18


### said here, you take it back and somehow get it to 19


### where you can help these people out here, Nava jo 20


### Nation and other tribes. And thank you for 21


### listening to me. 22

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### MR. GREEN: Thank you both very much. 1


### All right. Next we have Hope Lonetree and Mary 2



### Babbitt

- Maloney. Are you Ms. Maloney? All 3


### right. We're still looking for Hope Lonetree. 4


### She's coming. 5


### All right. We'll ask Hope Lonetree to go 6


### first and if both of you can repeat your names 7


### and spell your last names, that will be helpful. 8


### Thank you. 9


### MS. LONETREE: Thank you for giving us 10


### this opportunity and certainly myself, to speak 11



### to this issue or i ssues that have been mentioned 12



### earlier. 13


### First I want to introduce myself again. 14


### My name is Hope MacDonald Lonetree, and I am from 15


### Tuba City, Arizona, within the Navajo Nation. I 16


### am also a former legislator on the Navajo Nation 17


### Council, and I represented the second largest 18


### community within the Navajo Nation. 19


### I'm here today to ask you to please 20


### listen with great concern to the people that have 21


### spoken earlier about the proposed rule that you 22

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### have made, but also their concern for the 1



### environment and the area that they live on. 2


### You have heard through the morning that 3


### the Navajo people depend greatly on the land, and 4


### that is something that you may not find

-- or you 5


### will not find in a municipality. And so when you 6


### listen to these people please understand the 7


### environment that they live in and why it's so 8


### important to them. And to us, I should say. And 9


### although I'm not directly in the communities that 10


### have these power plants I am greatly concerned 11


### about my environment and I drive through Navajo 12


### land on a regul ar basis and it really is hurtful 13


### to see the pollution in this beautiful area. And 14


### I'm sure that many of you have seen pictures of 15


### Navajo land. It is vast and it's the most 16


### gorgeous land that you could ever imagine. 17


### And so to see the pollution that hov ers 18


### over our land is very hurtful to many people. 19


### But even more so, to have it impact health is 20


### even greater importance and priority for our 21


### people. So I ask that you continue to listen to 22

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### the comments that come in from Navajo, from the 1



### concerns that the y have, the request of you to 2


### continue to strengthen these regulations, but 3


### also to be able to find ways to enforce that. 4


### Thirdly I'd also ask you to help our 5


### tribal governments to find ways, whether it's 6


### through technical assistants or through grants, 7



### any kind of funding to really start developing a 8


### green economy so that they have alternatives. 9


### Our people should never feel that they have to 10


### make a choice between jobs and their health. And 11


### I really feel very strongly about that and I ask 12


### that you go back to the powers that be and ask 13


### that that kind of resources be provided to our 14


### tribal government so that they can start working 15


### towards that because right now our tribal leaders 16


### feel that they have to preserve a limited amount 17


### of jobs as opposed to looking a fter the welfare 18



### and the health and the environment of our land. 19


### And so that's one of the primary reasons 20


### that I wanted to be here, to ask you to help us 21


### look for that, to listen to the powerful and very 22

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### moving comments and words that were given earlier 1



### a bout the concern for our land and our 2


### environment. It's pristine out there and that's 3


### how we've always lived, in a very pristine land, 4


### and we'd like to keep it that way. 5


### So we look to you because often times 6


### these companies, energy companies have many mo re 7


### resources than the people who have come here by 8


### bus or their own vehicle jus to tell you their 9


### story and why this is so important to them. So 10


### we ask you to listen to the voices here because 11


### they don't have the resources that the energy 12


### companies do. 13



### An d so with that I want thank you again 14


### for this opportunity. I'm sure that we will have 15


### other people that will be able to provide 16



### comments on the record. If I can be available to 17


### be of any assistance as far as working with our 18


### tribal government, I would l ike to do that 19


### because as a former legislator on the Navajo 20


### Nation I know the decisions that they have to 21



### make. But also I know the concern that our 22

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### people have for our environment and the health 1


### problems that they have because of the industry. 2


### So thank y ou and (speaking in native 3


### language). 4


### MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. Ms. 5


### Maloney. 6


### MS. MALONEY: (Speaking in native 7


### language.) My clan is Red House and I’m a 8


### Mexican clan, and I'm here to be heard, and I'm 9


### here for my Navajo people, and also the Hopi 10



### p eople too. They're all living on the 11


### reservation, so. 12


### AS I was driving back from Flagstaff one 13


### day, and then I saw the black gray pollution, you 14


### know, floating right across from Page to Black 15


### Mesa, that's when I noticed that the pollution 16



### was on the Nav ajo Reservation. 17


### And right now I'm concerned about that. 18


### I'm concerned about my people. And also they're 19


### concerned about their land too, their animals, 20


### their gardening. You know, we plant our food on 21


### the ground and then also the sky, that is our 22

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### fathe r. Yeah. 1


### I can't say that. And then also the 2



### Mother Earth. That's our mother. We think of 3


### them as that. We plant from our Mother Earth, 4


### that our Mother Earth is the one that's feeding 5


### us, you know, for our food is grown, and also the 6


### sky that's wher e the rain is coming from. And 7


### all that pollution is right in the middle of 8


### that, is you know, going down into the ground. 9


### And that's not good. Not good for the people. 10


### Not good for everybody. 11


### People are driving, you know, going 12


### through, back and forth , you know, on the 13


### reservation. None Indian people, they're also 14


### affecting. So we need good air and also my 15


### brother was working at the generating station in 16


### Page, Arizona. He died from lung disease, so 17


### that's telling us something to, you know, our 18


### peopl e are dying from lung disease, maybe heart 19


### disease, and any kind of disease, you know, that 20


### can cost from pollution. Even our water has been 21


### polluted, and the food that we eat. 22

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### So that's just what it going on, you 1


### know, that we are all concerned about a nd I'm 2


### also a health provider. I'm a massage therapist 3


### and I see a lot of people that are coming in are 4


### also complaining about their health and it's sad. 5


### It's very sad. And some of them say that the 6


### hospital can't do nothing about it because of 7



### their lu ng, you know, it's affecting in many, you 8


### know, in many ways and it's affecting our 9


### physical, you know, life. And it's really hard. 10


### So, thank you for listening and I hope 11


### you will do something about it and spread our 12


### word and they will listen. And I just think why 13


### on the Navajo Reservation the generating station 14


### has been, you know, built on it. Why? I just 15


### always ask myself question that, why? Why is 16


### that happening? 17


### So, thank you for listening and thank you 18


### for the opportunity to

-- for me to talk he re and 19


### say what I have to say. Thank you very much. 20


### MR. GREEN: Thank you. 21


### MS. MALONEY: Appreciate. 22

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### MR. GREEN: Thank you, both. 1


### Okay. Next up we have Zachariah Ben and 2


### Lawrence Goode. Please repeat your name and 3


### spell your last name for the court repo rter. Mr. 4


### Ben, you go first. 5


### MR. BEN: Hello. (Speaking in native 6


### language.) My name is Zachariah Ben, B

- E

- N. I'm 7


### from Ship Rock, New Mexico, northwest corner of 8


### New Mexico on the Navajo Nation. I have three 9


### younger siblings and two sisters and a brot her. 10



### I have a mother and father. I have lived there 11


### my whole life next to two coal

- powered plants. I 12


### am currently apprenticing to become a Navajo 13


### medicine man, an herbal spiritual practitioner 14


### using the natural elements of the Earth to heal 15


### people with major or severe ailments. 16


### I know, feel, and experience first

- hand 17


### on what our people are going through within the 18


### Navajo Reservation, from lung cancer, tumors, 19


### skin conditions, and heart problems. 20


### My mother has suffered and dealt with 21



### asthma her whole li fe. I have feared for her as 22

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### I might wake up one day and she is no longer 1


### breathing. Now my younger brother has to suffer 2


### along with my brother. 3


### I, myself, was fortunate to be healthy, 4


### to not have these ailments and with this ability 5



### and this health I go out to heal and help my 6


### family and local communities. 7


### These ailments come from these power 8


### plants. I have seen these ailments increase over 9


### my lifetime as our elders and the youth have come 10


### to us for healing and cleansing throughout my 10 11


### years of ap prenticeship. I have also seen our 12


### environment become increasingly brown and plain. 13


### For example, through my years of herb 14


### collecting I have seen a number of indigenous 15


### plants and herbs become increasingly rare and 16



### extinct because of the acid rain that c omes down 17



### and leaves two inches to half a foot of residue 18


### that soaks into the soil that makes it impossible 19


### for our plants and herbs to even see the sunlight 20



### to grow. 21


### I have also seen this within our farming 22

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### communities as I am a farmer. As the watermel ons 1


### and corn become smaller and smaller each year, 2


### using the San Juan River water that gets chemical 3


### runoff from these power plants, and knowing that 4


### the smoke stacks that continue to put high levels 5


### of pollution 24/7 into our environment and 6


### atmosphere, k nowing these facts we need that 7



### increase and emission control for our environment 8


### and people today, and our future of tomorrow. 9


### I have become scared and worried, but not 10


### hopeless, for a future generation knowing the EPA 11


### organizations, groups, and the peopl e in general 12


### are fighting to keep our Earth clean for the 13


### future of our young and becoming generation. So, 14


### that is it and that is all I have to say for 15


### today. Thank you. 16


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, Mr. Ben. And I 17


### notice that you had your comments electronica lly. 18


### If you could print those out or stop at the 19


### registration desk, they can tell you how to make 20


### sure that you get those into the docket if you 21



### want to submit those. 22

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### MR. BEN: Yes. 1



### MR. GREEN: Mr. Goode. 2


### MR. GOODE: Yes, sir. My name is 3



### Lawrence Goode . Last name spelled G

- O

- O

- D

- E. 4


### I'm originally from here, Phoenix, Arizona. I 5


### have three brothers, two sisters, and what I 6


### think is, you know, the pollution, you know, the 7


### environment going around, you know, we need a 8


### change and new scenery to everything , you know. 9



### That's all I have. I'm not like familiar 10


### but I understand, you know, and there's something 11


### that we need a change every day. 12


### MR. GREEN: All right. Thank you very 13



### much. 14


### MR. GOODE: Yes, sir. 15


### MR. GREEN: Thank you, both. All right, 16


### we're going to do two more and then we're going 17


### to break for lunch. We have Glen Manygoats and 18


### Terold Charley. 19


### Okay, Mr. Manygoats, you're first. 20


### MR. MANYGOATS: Okay. Good morning. My 21


### name is Glen Manygoats. My last name is spelled 22

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### M

- A

- N

- Y

- G

- O

- A

- T

- S. Good mo rning and thank you 1


### for the opportunity of speaking for speaking and 2


### submitting a written comment submitted 3


### electronically. 4


### I am a member of the Navajo Nation and I 5


### would like to make two references to a couple of 6


### documents that have been released recently . One 7


### is the IPCC documents. It's just, it's a summary 8


### of approved for policy makers. And it's dated 9



### 2014 of November. 10



### And the other one is the Union of 11


### Concerned Scientists, and it's dated October of 12


### 2014, it's a policy brief, and it's titled 13


### strengthe ning the EPA's Clean Power Plan. 14


### Getting back to the IPC's new report, the 15


### climate change 2014 synthesis report, it provides 16


### a helpful summary of the panel's previous three 17


### big reports on climate change or global warming, 18


### which dealt with the physical scie nce of climate 19


### change, how bad it could get, and how to stop it. 20


### But really what it contains is seven key 21


### points from the report are

-- I'm just going to 22

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### mention the first three and leave the other four 1


### out. Right now the world is failing badly on its 2



### cli mate change goals. The climate change goals 3


### is trying to stick below the 10 degree C above 4


### preindustrial levels. 5


### Number two, hitting those goals will 6


### require sharp emission cuts, and soon. And there 7


### is uncertainty there. Somewhere around 41 to 72 8



### perc ent below 2010 levels by mid

- century to stay 9


### below 2 degrees C. 10


### The third one, cutting emissions will 11


### require a massive technological push. The world 12


### would have to triple or even quadruple the share 13


### of clean energy that it uses by 2050 and keep 14


### scaling i t up thereafter. And the second 15



### reference that I made of the Union of Concerned 16


### Scientist's proposal, okay, it basically says the 17


### EPA's renewable energy target, which is building 18


### block 3, is conservative and pessimistic and 19


### could easily be doubled. The E PA could go much 20



### further when it comes to the current Clean Power 21


### Plan renewable energy targets, and that states 22

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### can cost effectively produce nearly twice as much 1


### renewable electricity as the EPA calculated. 2


### The EPA's draft rule requires existing 3


### power pla nts to cut carbon dioxide by 30 percent 4


### from 2005 levels by 2030. The UCS study states 5


### that while 30 percent cuts may seem like a lot, 6


### emissions are already 15 percent below 2005 7


### levels in 2013. So the rule cuts only another 15 8


### percent over the next 15 y ears, an unambitious 9


### goal, and one far lower than climate sciences 10


### have determined is needed to prevent the most 11


### catastrophic impacts of climate change. 12


### The UCS study found that the plan, the 13



### CPP could increase total emissions reductions 14


### from 30 percent be low 2005 levels by 2030, to 15


### approximately 40 percent by updating the 16


### renewable energy targets. 17


### Now, by instituting a larger role for 18


### renewable energy in the CPP tribes may benefit 19


### from the additional wrap up and renewable energy. 20



### Investor owned utilities cooperative utilities, 21


### public power agencies and independent power 22

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### producers would now look at native lands serious 1


### for additional opportunities to meet these 2


### updated targets. 3


### Now, the Navajo nation is primarily a 4


### coal based resource tribe today. But the Navajo 5



### Nation did not have much of a choice at the start 6


### of late 1950s and '60s. During that time of 7


### negotiations for the Four Corners Power Plant and 8


### NGS, the federal government needs to set up an 9


### environment where the Navajo Nation can 10


### transition away f rom coal, encourage development 11


### of cleaner sources of energy. 12


### Now I'll make a quick comment on Navajo 13


### Generating Station specifically. Since the 14


### federal government is a part owner of that power 15


### plant, it would be a good place to start. The 16


### federal govern ment can send a message that is 17


### serious about emissions by transitioning their 18


### ownership share of NGS before 2025 to a mix of 19


### either building block 2 and 3. Okay. You know, 20


### it doesn't have to be 100 percent renewable. It 21


### certainly doesn't have to be 100 percent gas, but 22

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### it could be a mix. 1


### MR. GREEN: Mr. Manygoats, one minute, 2


### please. 3


### MR. MANYGOATS: Well, I'm just about done 4


### so anyways, you know, there is a lot to be done. 5


### The basic plan needs updating is what I'm trying 6


### to say. I'm trying to tell you that renewable 7


### could play a bigger role, okay? That's not out 8


### of the question. I think it's just too lax, it's 9


### too unambitious. You need to wrap it up. 10


### Unfortunately nature has the final call 11


### on this and I wish that you would listen to the 12



### scientists. This is what they're telling you. 13


### And I think my time is up so thank you 14


### very much. 15


### MR. GREEN: Thank you very much. Mr. 16


### Charley. 17


### MR. CHARLEY: Terold Charley, C

- H

- A

- R

- L

18



### E

- Y. 19


### (Speaking in native language.) 20


### I will speak a little in Navajo and 21



### translate. 22

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### (Speaking in native language.) 1


### MR. GREEN: I assume you're going to 2



### translate for us. 3


### MR. CHARLEY: Yes, hold on. 4


### MR. GREEN: Okay. Thank you. 5


### MR. CHARLEY: (Speaking in native 6


### language.) 7


### Clean water, we need that back. This is 8



### -- we want to talk about that. Okay. Now, I'll 9


### go back and to switch to English. 10


### What I just said was, from the beginning 11


### in Navajo tradition, what they call (in Navajo) 12


### from the beginning, we were put here on Mother 13


### Earth to protect her, take care of her, as she 14



### will do the sam e for us from the plants, the 15


### animals, to the insects, to the water. 16


### And you four right there are sitting 17


### there to help us as people to protect Mother 18


### Earth. And as far as the power plants I do not

- 19



### - I'm not all for it and I wish that we could 20



### find a b etter way to keep Mother Earth healthy, 21


### and the plants and all the clean water that our 22

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### animals and ourselves depend on, we want them to 1


### be clean and have a healthful life, and to get 2


### back to where we were from the beginning. 3


### It might not be the same, but it would 4


### really help a lot if the U.S. EPA could find a 5


### better way to find jobs for everyone else in the 6


### United States and live a healthy life. 7


### And that's all I have to say for now. 8


### Thank you. 9


### MR. GREEN: Thank you very much, Mr. 10


### Charley. 11


### All right. We're going to break for 12


### lunch now. I'd like to ask everyone to be back 13


### by 1:00. Thank you all very much. 14


### (Luncheon recess from 12:11 p.m. until 15


### 1:10 p.m.) 16


### MR. NEIBLING: Good afternoon, the 17


### meeting will come to order. My name is William 18


### Neibling and I am one of the chairs of today's 19


### public hearing. Thank you for coming today. 20


### Joining me on the panel this afternoon 21


### are Anita Lee, Amy Zimfer, and Laura Ferris. We 22

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### are here today to listen to your comments on the 1


### Clean Power Plan supplemental proposal fo r power 2


### plants in Indian Country and U.S. territories. 3


### EPA announced this proposed rule on 4


### October 28th, 2014, and published it in the 5


### Federal Register on November 4th, 2014. Power 6


### plants are the largest source of carbon pollution 7


### in the United States, a ccounting for roughly one 8


### third of all domestic greenhouse gas emissions. 9


### Like the Clean Power Plan proposal for 10


### states, this supplemental proposal sets area 11


### specific goals for areas of Indian Country and 12


### U.S. territories with affected power plants, and 13



### p rovides options for meeting those goals in a 14


### flexible manner that accommodates a diverse range 15


### of approaches. EPA's following through on its 16



### commitment in the June 2014 Clean Power Plan 17


### proposal to issue a supplemental proposal to 18



### address these sources. 19



### T his supplemental proposal relies on the 20


### approach used in the June 2014 Clean Power Plan 21


### proposal as based on new information and data 22

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### provided through additional outreach to covered 1



### facilities and tribal and territorial 2



### governments. 3


### The supplemental propos al has two main 4


### elements. Emission rate based goals specific to 5


### each area of Indian Country in each U.S. 6


### territory that has affected electric generating 7


### units, and two, guidelines for the development, 8


### submission, and implementation of plans to 9



### achieve tho se goals. 10


### The goal is a target for areas to meet by 11


### 2030 while starting to make meaningful progress 12


### toward reductions by 2020. EPA is proposing a 13



### two

- part goal structure. An interim goal for an 14


### area to meet on an average over the 10

- year 15


### period from 20 20 to 2029, and a final goal for an 16


### area to meet at the end of that period in 2030 17



### and thereafter. 18


### EPA is not prescribing a specific set of 19


### measures for an area to put into its compliance 20


### plan and a tribe with jurisdiction over an 21


### affected power plant in its area has the 22

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### opportunity but not the obligation to establish a 1


### plan for its area of Indian Country. 2


### For Indian Country EPA is proposing rules 3


### for affected power plants within the Navajo 4


### Nation, the Ute Tribe of the Uenta and Uray 5


### Reservation, and the F ort Mojave Tribe. For 6


### territories EPA is proposing goals for Puerto 7


### Rico and Guam only. The EPA is not proposing 8


### goals for American Samoa, the Northern Marianna 9


### Islands, or the U.S. Virgin Islands. 10


### I'd like to thank you all for taking time 11


### out of your da y to join us and share your 12


### comments or listen to other people's comments. 13


### Before we get started I have a few housekeeping 14


### items and ground rules that will help make 15


### today's hearing run as smoothly as this morning. 16


### First, please be sure that you've checke d 17


### in at the registration desk, even if you're not 18


### planning to speak today. And if you signed up to 19


### speak online or by phone but haven't yet told us 20


### that you're here, please step out to the 21


### registration desk and let the EPA staff there 22

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### know that you've arr ived. 1


### So here is how the hearing will work. 2


### I'll call speakers up in pairs and when your name 3


### is called, please come to the table at the front 4


### of the room. When I call on you to speak please 5


### state your name and spell it for the court 6



### reporter. Your comm ents will be transcribed and 7



### included in the record of comments on the 8


### proposed rule. 9


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 10


### give comments. We have a light here to help you 11


### know how much time you have left to speak. When 12


### it turns from green to yellow th at means you have 13


### one minute remaining. When it turns red that's a 14


### signal that it's time to wrap up your testimony. 15


### When you are finished speaking please 16


### remain at the table until the person next to you 17


### has completed his or her testimony. We are here 18



### to listen to you today, however a panel member 19


### may ask you questions to clarify your comments. 20


### After the pair of speakers testifies I 21


### will then call up the next pair of speakers and 22

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### so on and so forth. If you've brought a written 1


### copy of your testimony ple ase give that to the 2


### staff at the registration desk before you leave 3


### today. If you have additional comments you would 4


### like to make you can submit them in writing and 5



### information about how to submit comments to the 6


### docket is available at the registration d esk. 7


### You can also submit written comments directly at 8


### the registration desk. 9


### Comments for the supplemental proposal 10


### must be received by December 19th, 2014. We will 11


### put any written comments submitted today in the 12


### official docket for the proposed rule. 13



### I nstructions for submitting comments in other 14


### ways are available at the materials table near 15


### the registration desk. 16


### We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 17


### tonight, but will take a dinner break at around 18


### 5:00 p.m. so everyone can get something to eat. 19



### In add ition we may take an occasional short break 20


### throughout this afternoon as needed and will keep 21


### you posted as the day goes on. 22

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### If you have any questions please see the 1


### staff at the registration desk and somebody will 2


### try to help you. Finally I would like to ask 3


### each of you to please be respectful of everyone 4


### who speaks today. We have people with a wide 5


### variety of views in the audience and we want to 6


### hear from each of you. So we can do that and to 7


### be fair to everyone we ask that everyone listen 8


### quietly. Ev en applause can slow things down and 9


### we want to hear from everyone who is signed up to 10


### speak. 11


### Thank you again for taking the time today 12


### to share your comments on the supplemental 13


### proposal. I think we should get started. 14


### So the first pair of speakers are Vincent 15


### Harris Yazzie, who is here, and Joanne Chisey. 16



### Is Joanne here from the audience? If she is not 17


### here we'll see if she shows up in a moment. Is 18


### Liza Hogue present? Okay. Joanne is coming. 19


### MS. CHISEY: Thank you. 20


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. Ms. C hisey. 21


### Ms. Chisey, could you please join Mr. Yazzie at 22

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### the table when you're ready? 1


### Mr. Yazzie, please begin whenever you're 2


### ready. 3


### MR. YAZZIE: Hi. My name is Vincent 4


### Yazzie. I noticed the carbon final goal for 5


### Navajo Nation is pretty much based afte r TWIG, 6


### which is interrupt, just shut down one unit and 7


### assume that will take care of all the problems. 8


### Mainly dropping the carbon emissions by 30, or at 9



### least a third. 10


### But there happen to be some problems with 11



### that number and that the TWIG decision is no w 12


### under petition for review. I'd be happy to meet 13


### with all the lawyers in that case. 14


### As far as TAR and cooperation with the 15


### EPA and the Navajo Nation, TAR is only for 16


### eligible tribes. As part of the lease agreement 17


### with NGS and SRP, the Navajo Nation wa ived a lot 18


### of regulations on the operation of NGS so that 19


### formation of TWIG is actually a form of 20


### regulation derived from TAR, Tribal Authority 21



### Rule. 22

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### And there is amendment of Navajo Nation 1


### council for the Navajo Nation to cooperate with 2



### SRP and environm ental and emission controls. But 3


### that amendment says this amendment does not take 4


### affect until it's signed off by the Secretary of 5



### Interior a little later. So that amendment is 6


### really no good. So TWIG is actually an illegal. 7


### So, you may have to go back to the 8


### drawing boards and find a way to get around the 9


### 323 grant and lease agreement with SRP and the 10


### tribe so that the Navajo Nation can be TAR 11


### eligible. 12


### So it will also be good to have some 13


### people from Guam here too. I noticed that 14


### affects those peopl e too, so. 15


### But carbon emissions, last year I went 16


### hunting. It was degrees 20 Fahrenheit when I set 17


### up my camp, got ready for the hunt the next 18


### morning, but that night the temperatures dropped 19


### tremendously. It was 20 degrees fahrenheit. 20


### Next morning it was like minus maybe

-- it was 21


### very cold; extremely cold. It damaged my 22

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### emission system, it actually cracked the plastic. 1



### I couldn't start the vehicle. It had trouble. I 2


### had to take it back home and bring out another 3



### vehicle. 4



### And the cold

-- I was not prepared for 5


### it. The cold was so great it went through 6


### whatever. I wasn't prepared for that arctic dry 7


### air that came that night. 8


### And I woke up many times in the night, 9


### screaming from the pain from the cramps, 10


### wondering if you could freeze up. So, you h ave 11


### to bring these current emissions

-- carbon 12


### dioxide captures heat in the tropics and it 13


### pushes it north to the Arctic. Cool air and hot 14


### air do not mix, so that cold air just comes 15


### moving down like an express. That same express 16


### came here a few days ago . You can feel the 17


### lingering effects out there. 18


### But this time we're sort of prepared. 19


### Upgrade the insulation in the house. I use 20


### isocronolate insulation, not that bar pink stuff 21


### anymore because that's not really adequate now. 22

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### R13 is no longer adequate for this cold arctic 1


### air. You need R30. So the house is set, 2


### prepared the walls with thick enough with R25. 3


### So people are really not ready for this 4


### cold dry arctic air that comes down. So the 5


### carbon emissions need to be brought down right 6


### away, if not it’s too late, it's like prepare to 7


### bundle up. 8


### Okay. I'm done. 9


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. Ms. Chisey? 10



### MS. CHIS SI E: Hi. My name is Joanne 11



### Chis si e. Good afternoon, I should say. 12


### (Speaking in native language.) 13


### I would just like to say that I've had 14



### ma ny good opportunities in the past couple of 15


### years to work with the Navajo Nation Council and 16


### the committees to rewrite the energy policy, 17


### which they just implemented in October of 2013. 18



### And I understand that our leaders do not 19


### understand climate change an d that's the whole 20


### issue here. They're more

-- the prospect of 21


### development, economic development, is really what 22

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### they have and they're with good intentions but 1


### sometimes they have to step on toes in order to 2


### get what they want. And a lot of the sacrifice 3


### falls on the people. 4


### And it's really a basic understanding of 5


### the scientific method and how we can prove that 6


### climate change and pollution, pollution, carbon 7


### pollution actually in the air, is creating this 8


### climate change. So we went back and I wanted to 9


### say, first of all, the establishment of this coal 10


### mine has created hardship for 40 years. And it 11


### started out with a war over land, and it was 12


### something like 10,000 families to 1,000 Hopi 13


### families that had to exchange land, move around 14


### and they finally est ablished Peabody Coal 15


### Company, which is a state

- of

- the

- art facility, 16



### and we've made them millions and millions of 17



### dollars. 18


### But you look back and you look at the 19


### people. There's no prosperity. There's no 20


### change. They're still driving around on dirt 21



### roads , they're still poor. Nobody is able to go 22

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### to this coal, you know, this coal mine and get 1



### coal. It's not for us. 2


### The extracted coal, they mine it, they 3


### make electricity out of it, and then this 4


### electricity goes everywhere else but to the 5


### Navajo people. And it doesn't even stay within 6


### the boundaries of Arizona. It goes everywhere 7



### north. 8


### And on top of that the NGS SRP and BHP 9


### mines, they're not owned by the Navajo Nation. 10


### So we're not actually making a profit. We're 11


### just making a whole lot of electric ity and a 12


### whole lot of people rich. They extract this 13


### coal, they send it off in these water slurries, 14


### and they sell it for more. 15


### So when we look back, when we look at the 16


### scientific method, we have to understand that 17



### there's two entities here. There's t he United 18


### States EPA and then there is the Navajo Nation 19


### EPA. And the jurisdiction falls under the Navajo 20



### Nation EPA. 21


### So no matter what we say, no matter how 22

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### we contend bring whatever, you know, it's going 1



### to fall

-- the responsibility basically falls 2



### ba ck on the Navajo Nation. And it would be great 3


### to see the EPA oversee some changes to make a 4


### difference for climate change. 5


### So we have to go back to the scientific 6


### methods. And the problem would be carbon 7


### pollution. The hypothesis, if we set limitatio ns 8


### for carbon pollution in our ecosystem, number 9


### one, will it provide enough protection to our 10


### environment to limit climate change? Will it 11


### provide better quality of air to offer a better 12


### quality of life to our Navajo people? Will it 13


### limit the changes an d affects of the weather, 14


### which is dramatically changing the ecosystem? 15


### Will it offer a rejuvenating affect to the health 16


### of our people by eliminating the physical 17



### ailments which cause disease and even death? 18


### Will it offer our environmental protection 19



### th rough environmental justice by limiting the 20



### extraction of the elements such as coal and 21


### uranium from the land? Will it promote a healthy 22

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### atmosphere in our ecosystem to offer a better 1


### quality of life by not contaminating the 2


### resources, our water, the land, our air, and all 3


### the animals that dwell? Will it prolong life for 4


### the Navajo people? 5



### I think if we ask ourselves all these 6


### questions we can answer yes. So, actually 7


### observing and experimenting, if we set realistic 8


### goals through a plan, we sit, we set a plan of 9



### action to oversee the

-- or the U.S. EPA oversees 10


### the Navajo Nation EPA to make these changes, 11


### everybody will be happy. Everybody will live 12


### longer lives. You know, they'll be

-- eliminate 13


### the coal fire plants and make them make the 14


### changes. Ma ke them reduce the emissions, or 15


### develop a plan, a realistic plan, you know, 16


### through setting goals. That's something that the 17


### Navajo Nation really doesn't do. They don't 18


### plan, they don't set goals, and they don't look 19


### to see what the problem is and addre ss the 20


### problem by actually implementing these plans. 21


### So that's one thing that can really make 22

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### a difference. So

-- 1


### MR. NEIBLING: Ms. Chisey, Ms. Chisey, 2


### your time is expired so I would ask you to 3


### conclude your remarks, if you would, please. 4



### MS. CHISEY: Okay. Well, I just wanted 5


### to say that a lot of our people are really 6


### natural people. They're really down to Earth 7


### people and they don't know about science. They 8


### don’t know what these emissions are. They don't 9


### know they're breathing in this air. They have no 10



### idea. And it's not fair to them that all of this 11


### happens, other people are making money off of it 12


### and benefiting from it. But the sad reality is, 13


### it's killing us. 14


### So I just hope you all consider what I'm 15


### saying and really listen to the people tha t are 16


### speaking here, and I just appreciate the time. 17


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. And if you 18


### have further remarks, please feel free to submit 19


### them in writing. 20


### MS. CHISEY: Okay. 21



### MR. NEIBLING: Next we'd like to invite 22

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### up Liza Hogue and Andrew Bedoney, please . Good 1


### afternoon. Whenever you're ready. Liza. 2


### MS. HOGUE: Okay. My name is Liza Hogue, 3



### H

- O

- G

- U

- E. And I would just like to say about 4


### the power plant for me, from my understanding is 5


### that I don't think the power plant is good for 6


### the Navajo Nation. T he reason why is that 7


### there's a lot of people on the reservation are 8


### suffering from the pollution and going through 9


### what they want to be like, you know, they want to 10


### get fair air. 11


### So there's a lot of people out there that 12


### they're having a lot of difficul ty through their 13


### situation about their body inside and they have a 14


### lot of cancer and lung cancer and kidney problems 15


### and everything. So for my understanding is that 16


### I don't think that's the right way for the Navajo 17


### Nation to put that power plant in that p lace, so 18


### that's the way I think about it. So I think it's 19


### not good for the Navajo Nation. That's all I can 20



### say. 21


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. Andrew. 22

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### MR. BEDONEY: Hello. My name is Andrew 1


### Bedoney. So just give me a minute. I am really 2


### talking to the nat ion and say

-- and the Navajo 3


### words or something like that would talk like that 4


### so you will understand me. (indiscernible). 5


### MR. NEIBLING: I'm sorry to interrupt 6


### you, but we have a Navajo translator available if 7


### you would like that. 8



### MR. BEDONEY: Yeah. 9



### ( Testimony through an interpreter.) 10


### MR. NEIBLING: So we will resume again 11



### and while we have the five minute clock we 12



### understand that we'll take some additional time. 13


### So please don't feel too much pressure. 14


### MR. BEDONEY: For me this pollution 15



### that's on thi s Earth is something else. I don't 16


### agree with the many adverse effects. People are 17


### affected, they can't

-- illnesses. I want my 18



### children

-- 19


### MR. NEIBLING: I'm sorry to keep 20


### interrupting. Could we ask you to do that 21


### sequentially so the court reporter is able to 22

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### record you clearly? 1



### MS. FERRIS: If the translator could 2


### have the mic pointed at his mouth while he's 3


### listening, we'd be able to understand. 4


### MR. NEIBLING: So if you could ask him to 5


### give a statement and then pause so that you could 6


### translate it, that would be best if you please. 7


### MS. FERRIS: It worked okay this morning. 8


### You know, probably the best thing is just for the 9


### translator to speak into the mic. But we want to 10


### hear Mr. Bedoney. So Mr. Bedoney you go ahead 11


### and then the translator, you ca n do it 12


### simultaneous if that works okay. It's just we've 13


### got to make sure the comments actually get 14


### recorded. Thank you. 15


### MR. BEDONEY: And so that's how this, we 16


### on the Earth suffers. Our grandparents and our 17



### children will live on this Earth. I don't agree 18


### with pollution. It causes cancer and it affects 19


### people's hearts and we would like to live on this 20


### Earth in health. We have sheep, we have horses, 21


### and they all suffer adversely from the pollution, 22

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### even our last dog, the dogs, animals are affected 1


### by this pollution. Causes cancer and the 2


### pollution from the plants, power plants. 3


### We are placed here on the sense of the 4


### Earth and we want our children to be living on 5


### this Earth in good health and this pollution is 6


### something that's not good for us. We a re all 7


### suffering adversely from pollution. It still 8


### affects persons, some like we have headaches and 9



### remorse. We live in remorse because of some of 10



### these adverse effects. 11


### And we would like to live here in good 12



### health. We would like our children to be li ving 13


### in good health as well so they can have strong 14


### hearts and I don't like this pollution that's 15


### affecting us. And those who live on the surface 16


### of the areas are not in good health. Our 17


### livestock, our sheep, they want them to be in 18


### good health as well. 19


### We have plants, we grow plants, corn, et 20


### cetera, and meanwhile the water is sick, and so 21


### when the animals drink this water, it's not good 22

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### for them. No one could help the water. 1


### What I want for life is to be healthy and 2


### safe, safety. I want our animals to be healthy 3


### as well. I don't like this pollution and I want 4


### able to be in good health. So this is what I 5


### want to say to you. I'd like you to do some good 6


### things from what has been presented here. I want 7


### things to be good here. 8



### That's what I wanted to present to you, 9


### and that concludes my remarks. 10


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you very much. 11


### Next we would like to invite up Urvin 12



### Yazzie and Charlie Mitchell III. 13


### MR. MITCHELL: (Speaking in native 14


### language.) 15


### My name is Charlie Mitchell, M

- I

- T

- C

- H

- E

16



### L

- L, and that's the Third. And we come forward 17


### to you today and travel a far distance to meet 18


### with you, and thank you for your time in hearing 19


### everybody's story today. 20



### And I know all of us have shared 21


### statistical numbers with you and also the fact of 22

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### the damage s that are caused to the human body 1


### with each and every one of us. 2


### Now I'm from Blue Gap, Arizona. In my 3



### area we face abandoned uranium mines. And from 4


### my understanding we've been trying to work with 5


### the local chapter houses and also with Navajo 6



### Nation t o get these areas cleaned up and from 7


### what I've seen it does affect natural springs, 8


### the aquifers, and also the land. 9


### And my concern is the exposure from these 10


### abandoned uranium mines. Also from the power 11


### plants. It affects not only Dine people but also 12


### everyone around the world. And the way I view it 13


### is we're killing Mother Earth, Father Sky, the 14


### ozone layer is opening up. And honestly the way 15


### I think about it is, we as humans, do we even 16



### think about the future. 17


### You guys specialize in helping us human 18


### beings in living a further life. And a lot of 19


### young ones are standing up and are realizing 20


### this. I can remember as a child running around 21


### outside in an open area where the grass had grew 22

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### green and livestock was in high numbers. 1


### Everybody pretty much wa s living a healthy life. 2


### Now I see a lot of elderly people, a lot 3


### of young ones, facing so much disabilities, the 4


### breakdown of their bodies, you know, facing 5


### different types of illnesses. 6


### We as Navajos are known as gatherers, and 7



### we collect herbs for tradi tional ceremonies and 8


### purposes to better ourselves. We live off the 9


### land, what Mother Nature has blessed us with, and 10


### also what Father Sky has given us as far as 11


### elements go. 12


### And as a young individual I continue to 13


### stand behind my brothers and sisters a nd I often 14



### wonder does the world even think about their next 15


### generation. You have heard young people pleading 16


### and crying, worried about their children. You 17


### know, you have elders here that are worrying 18


### about their future generation, their young ones, 19



### how is the world going to turn out. You know, 20



### how much more do we have to stand here and watch 21



### Mother Earth die? 22

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### And Dine ways and teachings we don't see 1


### that. We beautify ourselves. We protect the 2


### land. That's the reason why we traveled here to 3


### you to b ring out our words and our concerns and I 4


### just want to say thank you for listening to each 5


### and every one of us who are coming up here and 6


### discussing this and bringing these issues forward 7



### to you. 8


### And for myself, I just wonder how can we 9


### work together? H ow are we going to fight this? 10


### You know, we have different

-- the government is 11



### different from the United States Government from 12


### Dine, Navajo Nation. We bring these issues up to 13


### the Navajo Nation and now we're here today to 14


### speak with you. You know, to have our voices 15



### heard. 16


### Each and every one of us, we do our own 17


### research, we live this every day, we see these 18


### destructions every day. I wish a lot of 19



### individuals will take the time to come out and 20


### see how we live, what we see, what we experience, 21



### the de secration of the land of Mother Earth and 22

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### how much the weather is changing in our areas. 1


### Like I had mentioned earlier, the 2


### elements when I was a young child was different 3


### from today. Now we just see dry lands, a lot of 4


### plantations are dying. You know, how much more 5


### are we going to have to live and see desecration? 6


### Especially for our young ones. We think about 7


### our young ones. We think about ourselves. We 8



### even think about our elderlies. 9


### And it is painful. And today as I sat 10


### out there hearing everyb ody's stories, it really 11


### hurts me deep inside. And I don't just look at 12


### it as our Dine people. I'm looking at it as a 13


### whole general human life. Every single one of us 14


### that live here on Earth. When are we all going 15


### to stand for this purpose and fight th is purpose? 16


### You know, it hurts deep inside and I wonder about 17


### the younger generation. I see my elders cry and 18


### plead and try to teach us young ones to keep our 19


### traditions alive and to keep going. And I just 20


### want to thank all the young ones out there for 21


### expressing your viewpoints and making your voices 22

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### heard and standing along with our elders. 1


### And thank you for your time to hear us 2



### out. 3


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. And we 4


### appreciate how far you traveled and how far so 5


### many people traveled to share your re sponse with 6


### us today, and we're grateful for that. 7



### Urvin. 8


### MR. YAZZIE: (Speaking in native 9


### language.) 10


### I just wanted to say, I've been following 11


### my grandpa with his traditional lifestyles for a 12


### few years before he passed, and a lot of these 13



### medicines tha t we use to help heal our people are 14


### starting to stink. And it's hard to find any of 15


### these plants nowadays because of the pollution 16


### and the droughts and, and also I've been 17


### traveling throughout the reservation listening to 18


### some of these people's stories a nd just spreading 19


### their words. Just listening to them talk about 20


### what's going on in their suffering and so on. 21



### It's kind of hard to

-- it's kind of hard for me 22

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### to just sit back and do nothing for them. 1


### So, we'd really like to help these people 2



### to live a health lifestyle. And also I work with 3


### some of these families throughout the reservation 4


### and it's sad when you see them in pain, 5


### especially with cancer and

-- cancer, birth 6


### defects, and even my nephew and nieces, they're 7


### going through some health issues. We live not 8


### far from abandoned uranium mines and Peabody Coal 9



### Mine is not far from where we live too. So it's 10


### kind of affecting all of us in that area. All 11


### that dust particles we breathe in, all that

-- 12


### our livestock is eating the contaminated plants 13



### an d we digest it. It's causing us cancer and so, 14


### yeah, it's pretty intense. It's kind of hard and 15


### sad to see to see our people live that way. 16


### So hopefully you guys can do something 17


### about it. And hopefully you guys listen to our 18


### plea, our cries, and hope fully things will go 19


### back the way it was before. Or cut down on the 20


### pollution. So yeah, that's all I want to say. 21


### Thank you. 22

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### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. Next we would 1


### like to invite up Sarada James and Raymond Begay. 2


### MS. JAMES: Hi. My name is Sarada Ja mes, 3



### S

- A

- R

- A

- D

- A, James. And this is my first time to 4


### one of these things hearing, you know, the 5


### stories and just came to support my friends and 6


### the families on the reservation. And hearing all 7


### these stories it is really sad and I don't know 8


### what to say what, you know, everybody else said 9


### already. It's just, it's really sad and I just 10


### really hope that something does get done really 11


### soon. Something needs to be done. That's all I 12


### wanted to say. 13


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you very much. 14


### Raymond. 15



### MR. BEGAY: Ra ymond Begay, B

- E

- G

- A

- Y. I 16


### come off the strip with my sister, Eloise Brown, 17


### from Desert Rock. I've been working around the 18


### Four Corners area power plant for most of my life 19



### and I had a brother

- in

- law from the Four Corners 20


### area, and he died of cancer, but he told me one 21


### time he says, you want to live a long life, you 22

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### need to move out of here and go work somewhere 1


### else. So then I end up in North Dakota, so and I 2


### just came back two days ago. Came back on a 3


### plane. So

-- 4


### And I see people out in the Four Corn ers 5


### area with the respiratory problem. They're 6


### carrying their oxygen bottles around. See that a 7



### lot around the Four Corners area. So I'd sure 8


### like to see something get done for my people who 9


### live out in that area. So, that's all I have to 10



### say. 11



### MR. NEIB LING: Thank you. Next we would 12


### like to invite up Elsa Johnson and Klee Benally. 13


### MS. JOHNSON: My name is Elsa Johnson, E

14



### L

- S

- A, Johnson. And I'm from Black Mesa, and a 15


### few miles from Peabody Coal Company, that's my 16


### original ancestral land. 17


### I just wa nted to say that the proposed 18


### emissions reduction of four percent for both 19


### power plants is severely insufficient. And 20



### that's until 2030. And I consider that a racial 21



### -- you know, that's an injustice. That's a 22

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### social environmental injustice. And also th at is 1



### discrimination. 2



### And EPA knows that Native Americans 3


### suffer the worst pollution everywhere in the U.S. 4


### And so I'm very, I guess, perplexed at the agency 5


### not doing better and as many people have voiced 6


### their concerns here today, we do not benefit. We 7


### don't. And ASU did an economic study and they 8


### failed to account for the fact that the plant 9


### workers and the coal mine workers, most of them 10


### live off reservation. So that money they earn 11



### does not come back to our nation at all. 12


### And so, and that also me ans that those 13


### jobs, 2,000 jobs, and we are 330,000, and those 14


### jobs, 400 at Peabody, 500 at NGS, with the same 15


### over at the New Mexico power plants, total 2,000. 16


### That does not help us economically. 17


### And like I said, all of that money, 18


### payroll, is spent off reservation. Nothing is 19



### ever

-- hardly ever purchased on the reservation. 20



### So you cannot

-- they have to stop saying that 21


### because that is very erroneous. 22

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### And then you also have to remember, I 1


### wish the EPA and all the plant owners and APS, 2


### SRP, BOR would take into consideration the cost, 3


### the high cost of health that this imposes on my 4


### people, on me. And so the government is always 5


### talking about how it has to cut back. And that, 6


### you know, funding these Native American tribes 7


### are, you know, too high. 8



### And we experience the first cuts any time 9


### that there's federal cutbacks. And, you know, 10


### you guys could save a lot of money by cleaning up 11


### these power plants the right way and on time, 12


### rather than waiting 30 years. I'm going to be 13


### gone and this power plant i s still going to be 14


### haunting my people and future generations. And 15


### I'm not just talking about the power plants. I'm 16


### talking about the coal mine too. And it's taking 17


### and abusing contaminating our precious water 18


### supplies. 19


### And to think that, you know, th ese plants 20


### and these mines can come and just operate and use 21


### as much water as they please, that's just wrong. 22

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### That's inhumane. And you come down here and 1


### people have

-- Maricopa County has the highest 2


### number of golf courses. And here we are on 3


### Navajo st ill hauling water in 55 gallon barrels. 4


### That's a severe injustice there. 5


### And so we work very hard and you know, 6


### people, you know we have illnesses that

-- and 7


### people have

-- my relatives here have talked 8


### about how many loved ones they've lost, and I 9



### reall y think that this is just ridiculous, that 4 10


### percent for both power plants by 2030. And it 11



### does not

-- it's protecting the owners. It's 12


### protecting their pocketbooks. It doesn't protect 13



### us at all. 14


### So I'd like to end with that. Thank you. 15



### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. 16


### MR. BENALLY: (Speaking in native 17


### language.) 18


### My name is Klee Benally, originally from 19


### Black Mesa, registered with the Forsake Chapter 20


### House from the Dine or Navajo Nation. That's K

21



### L

- E

- E, Benally, B

- E

- N

- A

- L

- L

- Y. Hopefully after 22

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### today you know how to spell it. 1


### I'm here as a volunteer representative 2


### with Clean up the Mines, an organization that is 3


### working to clean up the more than 10,000 4


### abandoned uranium mines throughout the U.S., 521 5



### which are located on Dine

-- or the Navajo 6



### Nation. 7



### I want to speak to two things. One 8


### first, personally where I come from, or my family 9


### comes from is about 13 miles from this impacted 10


### area where people are talking about with Peabody 11


### Coal Companies, a harmful energy or extractive 12


### activities which are fueled by this energy 13



### economy. 14


### And so we suffer those impacts and there 15


### needs to be more due diligence and to ensure that 16


### in a meaningful way more voices are included and 17


### not just meetings that are located here in 18


### Phoenix, or technical documents, 130 pages or so 19



### tha t are dense that are not translated and 20


### provided for the community in a meaningful level. 21


### So for the community consultation impacted areas 22

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### it's essential. 1


### But I want to shift the focus to my 2



### concerns with the so

- called Clean Power Plan. 3


### Specifically how my concerns are that it leaves 4


### the door open for nuclear energy. Nuclear power 5


### generation is not a solution to climate crisis. 6


### Nuclear is not zero emission when you look at the 7


### front end or impacted communities. And coming 8


### from Dine Akaya (Phonetic) we know something 9



### about this. 10


### This plan declares nuclear power, 11


### essentially, as a core element of the U.S. 12


### Climate Policy, which is very dangerous, you 13


### know, and this is exemplified by subsidizing 14


### existing reactors and other moves. So we have a 15


### disproportio nate impact that we will continue to 16


### suffer if this plan is to move forward with 17



### nuclear as a so

- called renewable option in the 18


### plan. 19


### So our existence, our cultural survival, 20



### our health and our communities and our sacred 21


### lands is not compatible with this furthering of 22

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### the toxic legacy of nuclear power. There are 1


### more than 10,000 abandoned uranium mines located 2


### throughout the U.S. We estimate that there are 3


### about 10 million people who live within 50 miles 4



### of an abandoned uranium mine. There are 521 on 5



### th e Navajo Nation alone. The EPA, as hopefully 6


### you know, has closed more than 22 wells or 7


### roughly 22 wells due to high levels of 8


### radioactivity. And this, we're talking a 60 year 9


### plus legacy, and nothing has been done to clean 10


### this up. 11


### So if you're leavin g the door open for 12


### nuclear power, what assurances do we have that 13



### this will not be exacerbated and we will not 14


### disproportionately continue to pay the price that 15


### is a deep impact of nuclear power. So we can't

- 16



### - you can talk about it potentially being zer o 17


### emission, but you have to look at the front end. 18


### For every seven pounds of uranium that's 19


### used to generate nuclear power, there's more than 20


### a ton of waste. And our communities, the waste 21


### continues to pile up and our bodies continue to 22

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### pile up, and ther e has been no accountability, no 1


### responsibility taken on behalf of the United 2


### States Government, aside from the EPA's five

- year 3


### plan. And some of the cleanup essentially 4


### amounts to toxic landscaping. There's no 5


### responsibility and we cannot move forward w ith 6


### this kind of plan so long as nuclear power is 7


### part of that, and our communities will continue 8


### to incur these disproportionate impacts. 9


### In closing I would just like to add that 10


### global warming is a consequence of a war against 11


### Mother Earth, and we contin ue to face this and we 12


### continue to see how Mother Earth is viewed only 13


### as a commodity and it will continue to be 14



### desecrated. Our sacred sites such as the San 15


### Francisco Peace, or Mount Taylor, or Redview, or 16


### the many other sacred places, will continue to b e 17


### preyed upon so long as we have this value system. 18


### And so it's important, I urge you most 19


### importantly to omit nuclear energy as an option 20


### in this clean energy plan because it's not clean 21


### at all. We pay the price. 22

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### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. At this poin t 1


### we've been asked to take a brief, about a five

2


### minute break. So we will adjourn temporarily and 3


### reconvene at approximately 2:05. 4


### (Recess from 1:59 p.m. until 2:11 p.m.) 5


### MR. NEIBLING: Okay. We will reconvene. 6


### Thank you for your patience during that br eak. 7


### We had a little bit of a change in the panel 8


### makeup during the break, and so I will 9


### reintroduce us. My name is William Neibling. 10



### I'm a senior advisor at the Office of Air and 11


### Radiation at the U.S. EPA and I'm joined by Laura 12


### McKelly, Colleen McConn (phonetic) and Laura 13



### Ferris. 14


### At this point we have one person signed 15


### up to speak, Supai Water, so I will invite you up 16


### and as we get more names we will continue to 17


### invite testimony from more people. 18


### MR. WATERS: Good afternoon. My name is 19


### Supai Water s, W

- A

- T

- E

- R

- S. 20


### I'm here in regards of the holy way, the 21


### sacred way. I'm a relative to these people. I 22

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### am also a healer. The last of my people who is 1


### known to speak to beings, who is connected to the 2


### Star People. 3


### My relatives are the winged people. The 4


### White Winged People. It is very disrespectful to 5


### bring back the surface changers. The rights of 6


### the Mother Earth we're chartered to protect the 7


### land, the water, the air, the Earth way, natural 8


### way. But people like us, resident people, are 9



### not prote cted. We're chartered to be protected; 10


### guaranteed to be protected. 11


### But we will continue to practice our 12


### sacred way. I will continue to protect my 13


### relatives, the Dine, the holy people, Star 14


### People, reticent way people, Horse Nation, 15



### Mountain Lion Nation , our brother, the coyote. 16


### It was told to us that the waterway and the air 17



### that we breathe comes from the heart of the 18


### Earth, heart of the creator. 19


### My people have been in this region since 20


### the world began. The Supai tribe just released a 21


### book that supp orts who these people were that 22

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### came from these lands. The Hopi people are not 1


### our relatives anymore. These aren't my brothers 2


### anymore. The Dine, the Zuni were here before 3


### these people. The Hopi people are foreigners. 4


### They come with their witchcraft. They're Black 5


### Wing, they're Dark Wing. And I will defend these 6


### people. I will defend their rights and their 7


### holy way. 8


### My people are the Blue/Green Water 9


### People. We were put there to protect the salt, 10


### the water, and the springs inside the Grand 11



### Canyon . These rivers, these waters that come 12


### through the canyon that is a God

- given right to 13


### protect these holy ways, to protect these 14



### mountains. 15



### Reason is that these mountains hold 16


### healing songs for us to practice. Every white 17


### man that you bury under the Ea rth, you think that 18


### it's going to fertilize to make the resources 19


### that you extract. You see it differently and I 20


### see it differently. And I'm asking you to 21


### respect the land, respect their hearts, respect 22

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### their mind, which protects their heart. 1



### Back befo re, back about four years ago I 2


### submitted a statement in District 9, EPA 3


### conference in Colorado. Again, defending and 4


### protecting their sacred way. My grandfather has 5


### a lineage to these people. A little boy was 6


### taken from us long ago, and he became the C hief 7


### Navajo of our people. He knew the spider songs, 8


### their lightning way, the lightning horse songs, 9


### blue fire woman flame, send us good horses so we 10


### can go into battle, come back home with a 11


### victory. 12


### Again, I submitted a statement to the 13



### United Nations asking their constituents for an 14


### intervention, to protect the Dine territories, 15


### and protect he Supai territories, to protect the 16



### Zuni Pueblo territories. And we were answered. 17


### And now we are here facing another 18


### dilemma. Yes, we are angry but we will be 19


### patient. We know that when the world becomes a 20



### world where we will build another foundation with 21


### love and not dollars. If you take away the water 22

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- 44 5

- 3376180



### from my heart, if you take away the air from my 1


### heart, this world will not be the same anymore. 2


### That's why we were given these songs to protect 3


### it. That's why we were given these songs to 4


### defend the universe, the creation. All that you 5


### see are reticent people. 6


### I want to pray in my language for these 7


### people. (Speaking in native language.) 8


### They are bleeding from their hearts. 9


### Especially for the women, especially for their 10


### children, the elders. They are pleading for you 11



### to find a solution. 12


### EPA can mean Ending Pollution Alliance. 13


### I would like to see a triumphant effort from 14


### these people. I want their way to be set free. 15


### These people are not a sacrifice for you to 16


### extend your demonic aprilitations (phonetic). We 17


### will not allow it. We will defend them, we will 18


### be in solidarity with them 100 percent. 19



### I do believe that we can make this an 20



### effort with the h earts and from you hearts I see 21


### nothing. Nothing at all. But with their hearts 22

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### being justified here, there can be a way to find 1


### another Earth. That's why we are so dangerous 2


### because we know of another way to live. That’s 3


### why we defend it in the best wa y we can. 4


### I'm honored and grateful to be here and 5


### to defend our way and to protect our holy way as 6


### the Medicine Man. These are my people and I 7


### believe that we can change the course of history. 8


### If you can only love the Earth the way I love the 9


### Earth, and if you can only love our elders the 10


### way we love our elders and respect them in an 11


### honorable way, love the acronym, is Liberty or 12


### standing Victory Eternally. PEACE is the acronym 13


### for People for Environmental Awareness and 14


### Cultural Exchange. 15



### The statement s that have been given will 16



### be considered that I ask the creator to send the 17


### White Wing people to touch their hearts, to touch 18


### their Earth, to heal their lands, to heal their 19


### hearts. First you, the EPA constituents, with 20


### still your own bodies first, and w e can have 21



### respect. 22

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### What's going on in this world is not our 1


### doing. It's very demonic and we will not let it 2


### continue. And that's why I'm here on behalf of 3


### my people, the (speaking in Native language). We 4


### have not experienced any detrimental toxins or 5



### a ny contamination in our homes yet, but we don't 6


### want to see it happen again. 7


### Thank you, Grandfather. Thank you, 8


### Grandmothers, for coming here, standing up, 9


### standing up strong because we know that in their 10


### hearts they are wrong. And so thank you, Eloise 11


### Brown, for letting me come up here and defending 12


### your way, your life way. 13


### If I may I'd like to sing a repeat song 14


### for their people and their way of life. 15


### (Singing.) 16


### No more disrespect and destructions to 17


### these people and their way of life. (Speaking in 18



### n ative language.) 19


### Thank you. 20


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. Thank you. At 21


### this moment we are checking to see if there are 22

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### other people registered to testify. 1



### (Pause.) 2



### MR. NEIBLING: At the moment we have 3


### nobody registered to testify. 4



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Sir, I'm on at 5


### 2:30. I'm registered for 2:30. Sarah White, 6


### she's registered too. 7


### MS. FERRIS: Okay. Let me go check. 8



### (Pause.) 9


### MR. NEIBLING: Okay. We have resolved 10


### our uncertainty and it seems that you are 11


### correct, Sarah White and Victoria Gutierrez, 12


### please. Thank you for your patience. 13


### MS. GUTIERREZ: Can you videotape this 14


### for me? Okay. 15


### MR. NEIBLING: Just before you begin, if 16


### there is anyone in the audience who is hoping to 17


### testify and hasn't checked in with the desk, 18


### please feel free to do so s ince we apparently 19


### have some available spots. 20


### MS. GUTIERREZ: You don't mind if my son 21


### sits with us, right? 22

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### MS. FERRIS: Of course not. 1


### MS. GUTIERREZ: This is actually for him. 2


### MR. NEIBLING: Whichever order you 3


### prefer. 4



### MS. GUTIERREZ: I'm sorry. 5



### (Pa use.) 6


### MS. WHITE: Hello. My name is Sarah 7


### White, Sarah Jane White, and I am going to make a 8


### comment. How many minutes do I have? Five? 9



### MR. NEIBLING: Five. 10


### MS. WHITE: Okay. I am a community 11


### member at Senosti Chapter. My address is 12


### Shiprock, New Mexi co. 13


### I've been talking about pollutions in the 14



### Four Corners for over a decade. The Clean Power 15


### Plans came up, the Clean Power Plan should 16


### address carbon pollutions from effected power 17


### plants. And I listed three of them. And Co2 18



### emissions from fossil

- fire d power plants and best 19


### systems of emissions reductions. 20


### According to the studies from coal 21


### fired power plants and the emissions, pollutions 22

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### affect us every day. Everything, animals, 1


### plants, and animal feeds and the environment, not 2


### only in the Indian countries but the pollution 3


### goes around the world. It sends the pollution 4


### airborne, it goes around the world so it affects 5


### everybody. It does not just specifically stay in 6


### the Navajo Nations. 7


### Of all the power plants that we have on 8


### the reservations, goe s outside the boundary of 9


### the reservations. And so this affects everybody, 10


### and it's everybody, becomes everybody's problems. 11


### The health damage does not only happen to the 12


### Native Americans, but it also affects everybody 13



### across the world. 14


### People in the Fou r Corners have a lot of 15


### health problems. The health problems from 16


### asthma, respiratory disease, heart disease, 17


### kidneys, and it's expanding of diabetes. 18


### Where does this come from? Okay, we have 19


### power plants, coal

- fired power plants that's 20


### emitting so muc h gas into the air, and the 21


### climate change is also a big problems on the 22

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### Navajo Nations. It hit home for us. We used to 1


### hear about this climate change like out in 2


### Florida, overseas, somewhere else. Maybe east 3


### coast, south coast, wherever. But now it hi t 4



### home. 5


### And the weather has been very abnormal. 6


### We have four seasons. Our summers are very very 7


### severely hot and our summers are long. And our 8


### winters are short, and it's very, very severely 9


### cold. Cold, cold, more than I have ever known. 10



### You don't hav e to be a scientist to know these 11


### issues, to know the change in our lands, on our 12



### lands. 13


### And what does the pollution affects? It 14


### affects everything. It affects humans, it 15


### affects animals, it affects the birds, it affects 16


### the plant, it's the whole envir onment damage. 17


### The climate change, it goes hand in hand 18


### with health problems. The climate change is so 19


### severe in the last few years that I have known. 20


### In the springtime it's nothing but wind. We have 21


### sand dunes, we have droughts, and because of that 22

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### t here's less water. The animals are affected. 1


### The wild species, like animals, anything, 2


### anything that's living on the Earth is affected, 3



### as well as humans. 4


### And it's from this people can get sick 5


### with so much wind. Nothing but sand storms and 6



### dust storm s. 7


### So I ask the EPA to tighten up their 8


### regulations on their carbons from coal and Co2 9


### emission from the coal burning power plants. I 10


### personally don't think that those old grandfather 11


### coal power plants should be measured to make them 12



### efficient or lower their emission. They should 13


### be shut down, because there was a report of the 14


### Four Corners are the most polluting. It's APS 15


### and our air quality is very poor. 16



### And it's all this is from the coal

- fired 17


### power plants. We had two, one on the reservation 18



### and o ne on the outside. It's the Four Corners, 19


### San Juan Generating Stations, and the APS are in 20



### the Four Corners. 21


### And on the reservation, the one that I 22

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### know of is NGS. They need to be replaced with 1


### solar and wind turbines. We need clean air, just 2



### like Cal ifornia did. We don't need to just 3


### upgrade them and keep patching them, and patching 4


### them up. We need to do away with it so we can 5



### have clean air. We deserve clean air on the 6



### reservations. We deserve rain and snow. 7


### Right now we don't get snow in the 8


### wintertime. We don't get rains in the summer 9


### time. But we have rains in the fall, which it 10


### dries at the springtime when the wind comes in. 11


### So we have a lot of health problems. That's my 12



### main concern because I'm one of them. I have 13


### asthma, I have respi ratory problems, I've been on 14


### some severe medications for over 10 years and 15


### I've seen a lot of my loved ones and my relatives 16


### and family and friends that are suffering from 17


### respiratory disease, and heart disease. And this 18


### is the reason why I talk about cl ean air. 19


### We deserve equal protections and it's 20


### unfair that the rest of the country gets to 21


### breathe cleaner air while we, with two most 22

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### polluting power plants on our lands are left to 1


### endure more pollutions with protection insides. 2


### There are four power pla nts in the Western U.S. 3


### that are over 2,000 megawatt, and two are on our 4


### lands, and the biggest carbon contributors. Yet, 5


### we don't get the electricity in our homes, but we 6


### do suffer the health impacts. 7


### And I ask the EPA to please not just to 8



### clean these

- - not just to upgrade these old 9


### grandfather power plants. They are dangerous to 10


### our health. They are dangerous to the animals, 11


### our sacred sites, and our water, our food, 12


### everything. And it's not only on the 13


### reservation, but across the whole world. Just 14


### like if China is burning power plants, if they're 15


### wearing masks over there, we, if we don't take 16


### care of it, we'll be wearing masks too. If 17


### they're wearing masks over there, we breathe in 18


### some of their pollutions too. What are we going 19



### to do? We need t o clean them up and we need to 20


### do away with them. Thank you. 21


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. Victoria. 22

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### MS. GUTIERREZ: Okay. Can you hear me? 1


### Can everybody hear me in the room? All right. 2


### My name is Victoria Gutierrez and I am 3


### Dine, born and raised on the Navajo Reservation, 4


### the Four Corners area. I currently, and for the 5


### past 30 years, have been living in the middle of 6


### two major power plants. I live in the middle of 7



### San Juan Power Plant and the Four Corners Power 8


### Plant, right smack in the middle. 9



### I was v ery disturbed to hear the EPA was 10


### considering leaving the Four Corners Power Plant 11



### out of the Clean Power Plan. And even more so 12


### after hearing about the supplemental ruling for 13


### the Dine land based power plants. The utterly 14


### low four to six percent suggest ed level for the 15


### Four Corners Power Plant is not enough to ensure 16


### healing, nor will it create an impact on any 17



### level. 18


### If you consider the top carbon polluters 19


### out of 6,000 coal

- based plants, our plant sharer 20


### in Juliet, Georgia, emitting 21 metric tons. B ut 21


### compare that to the Four Corners Power Plant 22

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### ranking number 15, and emitting 13.8 metric tons, 1


### and the San Juan Power Plant ranking number 33 on 2


### that list while emitting 11.5 metric tons. Mind 3


### you, both are 15 miles apart from one another. 4



### A river an d an invisible boundary lines 5


### of state land and reservation land separate the 6


### two. We have two major power plants, and both 7


### are on the major polluters in the country. And 8


### the only thing that separates this is, you know, 9


### an invisible boundary of reservati on and a river. 10


### Pretty much it's 10 miles, 10 to 15 miles apart 11


### from one another, and that's where I live. Which 12



### means the Four Corners area that I live in holds 13


### the highest carbon pollution in the entire 14


### country with those two power plants 15 minutes 15



### ap art from one another, they both emit a carbon 16


### factor of 25.3 metric tons of carbon pollution in 17



### the Four Corners area. And the Four Corners 18


### power plant is one of the oldest and dirtiest 19


### power plants in the entire country. 20


### It would be an injustice not to i mplement 21


### stronger measures for the Four Corners Power 22

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### Plant, just as our stateside neighbors at the San 1


### Juan Power Plant are going to have implemented on 2



### them. 3


### To curb the carbon pollution on one and 4


### not the other makes no logical sense. This will 5



### ensur e the Navajo Reservation will look deeper 6


### into renewable energy and start investing in it. 7


### For the way it is now the Navajo Nation is 8


### investing more into fossil fuel energy while 9


### everyone else is looking to solar and wind and 10



### other avenues. We need stric ter guidelines, not 11


### only for our health but for humanity at large. 12


### Climate change in my area is very evident, 13



### increased winds and no moisture. 14


### The same goes where I live, the rain 15


### stops where the power plants start. The crops 16


### are smaller, the seasons see m to be forgetting 17


### what month they come on. Winter is starting in 18


### September/October and extending into mid June. 19


### And this is very abnormal from when I was a 20


### child. But lately it is the new normal and we 21


### need to look to helping and educating people to 22

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### ma ke homes more energy efficient, because on the 1


### Navajo Nation there is a lot of debilitating 2



### homes. 3


### And that's one thing the Navajo Nation 4


### needs start working on, helping families upgrade 5


### their homes to make them more energy efficient, 6


### and look in to ways on helping people do that. 7


### And also I have a lot of family and 8


### friends that are suffering from various illnesses 9


### in my area. My son is one of them, under this 10


### table. But I mean, ever since he was born he 11


### suffered from respiratory illness. It was one 12



### af ter the other. Constantly at the hospital, 13


### constantly at the ER. It's disgusting where I 14



### live. It's bad. 15


### And to put, on the supplemental ruling, 16


### to put such low levels is, it's like 17


### environmental genocide, is what it is. 18


### So, I am asking the EPA to hel p the Four 19


### Corners area, the Navajo people, or not only the 20


### Navajo people, but all of the San Juan basic 21


### community, implement stronger enforcement for the 22

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### Navajo Nation to go by. 1


### And if anything, as Sarah White stated 2


### here, shut them down. You know, so that's what 3



### I've got to say. 4


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you very much. Next 5


### we would like to invite up Kelly Barr and Arlene 6


### Rivera, please. 7


### MS. BARR: Good afternoon. My name is 8


### Kelly Barr and I'm a Senior Director of 9


### Environmental Management and the Depu ty Legal 10


### Executive of the Salt River Project Agricultural 11


### Improvement and Power District. 12


### As the operator of the Navajo Generating 13


### Station as well as a participant in both NGS and 14


### the Four Corners Power Plant, SRP welcomes this 15


### opportunity to provide com ments on EPA's 16


### supplemental proposal to the carbon pollution 17


### emission guidelines for existing stationary 18



### sources. 19


### I would like to open by first expressing 20


### my gratitude for EPA's incredible public outreach 21


### effort on the 111D rule. We sincerely appreciate 22

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### E PA's effort to gather public input on this 1


### really important rule. 2


### SRP supports the general approach that 3


### EPA used to develop carbon dioxide emission 4


### standards for existing fossil fuel fire power 5


### plants located on tribal land. We agree with 6



### EPA's decisio n to maintain the same analytical 7



### framework that was first used in the June 2014 8


### proposal, and apply the four building blocks in a 9


### manner that's consistent with the proposed state 10


### emission goals. 11


### In addition we are pleased that the 12


### participants in NGS and Four Corners will not be 13


### required to take any additional measures to meet 14


### the prescribed emission goals. We appreciate 15


### EPA's recognition that substantial carbon dioxide 16



### emission reductions have been or will be achieved 17


### at Four Corners and NGS through act ions taken to 18


### comply with the regional Haze Rules. We 19


### appreciate that EPA has structured the proposal 20


### to provide credit for those carbon dioxide 21



### reductions. 22

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### Although SRP is generally supportive of 1


### the supplemental proposal there are a few areas 2



### that warra nt additional consideration. SRP 3


### respectfully requests that EPA reconsider the 4


### application of building blocks 1 and 4. National 5


### studies form the basis for these building blocks. 6


### These assumptions should be corrected to take 7



### into account unit

- specific ch aracteristics at NGS 8


### and Four Corners, and the unique considerations 9


### of the Navajo Nation. 10


### Also, SRP encourages EPA to consider a 11


### baseline year other than 2012. 2012 was not a 12


### representative year for the operation of NGS or 13


### Four Corners and the operator s are currently 14


### reviewing plant emissions data and will provide 15



### recommendations to EPA in our written comments. 16


### Lastly, SRP encourages EPA to clarify who 17



### will receive credit for renewable resources on 18



### tribal lands. SRP believes that the credit for 19



### renewab le resource should be a sign to the entity 20


### that is purchasing the output of that resource, 21


### unless an alternative arrangement is specified 22

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### through contract. 1


### The entity could then use the credit 2


### towards the compliance obligations as needed. 3


### Once again, w e would like to thank EPA 4


### for its thoughtful consideration of the unique 5


### situation of the Navajo Nation and the generating 6


### facilities on tribal land. SRP appreciates this 7


### opportunity to comment on the supplemental 8


### proposal and will provide written comment s that 9



### address these issues in further detail. Thank 10



### you. 11


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. Arlene. 12



### MS. RIVERA: Good afternoon. I'm not 13


### much of a speaker and it took a lot of guts for 14


### me to come out here. I was just sitting back 15


### there listening to all the s tories that people 16


### are talking about, and I just cannot sit back and 17


### just listen. I had to say something. 18


### One, we were put on Earth to take care of 19



### the land and we're

-- the animals are limited in 20


### that they're intellectual, so we have to speak 21



### for the ani mals as well. And we are above the 22

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### animals. We're not animals. 1


### I mean, I was looking at that map that 2


### they put out here and our reservation is

-- I was 3


### looking at it and it looks like it's in the shape 4


### of a pig. And I once worked as a security guard 5



### ove r at both power plants, and when we go like 6



### this to the

-- we were constantly dusty. And we 7


### see the silica, no matter how much we dust it. 8


### And that was one of the reasons why I quit my job 9



### because I don't want to inhale it. It's not even 10



### worth it. And we did not come down here to waste 11


### our trip and our time, and I just want to say to 12


### those people that are like in support of the 13


### power plant, what kind of seeds are they sewing? 14


### Are they sewing seeds and the thorns where 15


### they're being choked out? 16



### We're be ing choked out. We're the good 17


### seeds. And that's all I have to say. Those are 18


### just my comments. 19


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you very much. Next 20


### we would like to invite up Mark Lewis and Steven 21


### Etsitty, please. 22

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### MR. LEWIS: May we begin? 1


### MR. NEIBLING: Please, Mark. 2


### MR. LEWIS: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, 3


### for the record my name is Mark Lewis, and I'm the 4


### elected director representing Maricopa County. 5


### Welcome to my district. I'm one of a number of 6


### elected board members that owns part of the 7


### Navajo Generating Station and we supply water to 8


### 4 million people here in Maricopa County. And I 9


### just want to express my gratitude to the tribal 10


### members that are here. Ten percent of the 11


### lighting that's in this room comes from Navajo 12


### coal and the Navajo Generating Station . And if 13


### you took a shower this morning you helped support 14


### the Navajo Generating Station and the Central 15


### Arizona Project, who delivers water to the people 16



### in the farms of Central Arizona. 17


### We're very grateful to be here and to 18


### speak on these rules. I don 't have really any 19


### prepared statements and I'll just highlight some 20


### of the issues that I've read through the rules. 21


### One of the main points of contention that I've 22

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### heard with the rules from our advisors is the 1


### timing of all of this. Essentially the interi m 2


### goal of 2020 and the final goal of 2030 is just 3


### not attainable. I mean, it's just not realistic. 4


### And since I'm the guy that has to write 5



### the check and raise the taxes and raise the water 6


### rates, you need to be concerned about the way 7


### this is going to bec ause we just don't have the 8


### capacity to comply with the challenges that are 9



### in front of us in the next 72 months. That's 10


### just not going to happen. And since I'm the guy 11


### that has to pay the bill you need to be thinking 12


### about that, because the Central Ariz ona Project 13



### owes the United States 1.6 billion. And we make 14


### a $50 million a year payment to the trust fund 15


### that distributes all these funds for water right 16


### settlements throughout the state. 17


### And the original deal we had with the 18



### United States when we creat ed the Central Arizona 19


### Project, was that we were going to be able to 20


### operate the Navajo Generating Station under the 21


### Regional Haze Rules that were originally created 22

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### until 2066. We borrowed money, we made 1


### commitments, we signed long

- term contracts with 2



### mo st of the cities in Central Arizona and the 10 3



### tribes that we serve. 4


### And now that timeline has gotten 5


### shortened in the TWIG agreement and this new set 6


### of rules brings us into compliance in 2030 and 7


### mostly in 2020. And I can just tell you, that is 8



### not go ing to happen. And we feel slighted that 9


### the United States through their various agencies 10


### has not lived up to the original bargain that we 11


### did. We're grateful for the improvements that 12


### these regulations bring to the tribe and to our 13


### community and we're h appy to pay it. 14


### It raised water rates on everybody's 15


### houses in this room, in this county, by 11 16


### percent at our June board meeting to pay for the 17


### $1 billion in upgrades to the Navajo 18


### environmental constraints, the coal leases, and 19



### the transmission lines tha t contain the 20


### components for the Navajo Generating Station that 21


### serves the Central Arizona Project. 22

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### We don't have the ability to just switch 1


### fuel sources and go to natural gas. That's not 2


### the deal. The original deal with the United 3


### States is 97 percent of our energy was to come 4


### from the Navajo Generating Station and it was to 5



### be used for the farms and the commitments that we 6


### made to the people of Central Arizona and the 7



### tribal settlements that the United States made 8


### under their fiduciary duty. 9



### And we tak e that commitment very 10


### seriously. And to have these timing issues 11



### constrain us from what I view

-- I'm the most 12



### senior board member. I've been elected and 13


### represent Maricopa County for the past 13 years. 14


### And from my term in office I've seen, it's gone 15



### f rom 2066 to 2020. And I don't have the 16


### capacity, the bonding capacity, or the rate

17


### making capacity to write a check for $350 million 18


### in the next 72 months. It's just not going to 19


### happen. 20



### And so those are the constraints that I 21


### take very seriously and t he challenges that the 22

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### rate payers and the folks that I represent are 1


### expressing to me. I am grateful for and 2


### appreciative of the EPA's acknowledgement that 3


### there's a special commitment to the tribe and 4


### that you have a fiduciary duty to treat them on a 5



### na tion to nation basis, and I support that. And 6


### we have done a lot of outreach on that area, and 7


### we're very grateful to continue that process. 8



### And we have a number of initiatives between the 9


### State of Arizona and the tribe that we're going 10



### to pursue. 11



### And it's been very motivating to have 12


### this vigorous discussion. We're grateful for 13


### your consideration of some of the challenges that 14



### we face as a state with a lot of tribal and 15


### federal interests, and we're grateful for the 16


### time that you have spent here today. Thank you. 17


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. 18


### MR. ETSITTY: (Speaking in native 19


### language.) 20


### My name is Steven Etsitty. I'm the 21


### Executive Director of the Navajo Nation 22

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### Environmental Protection Agency. I am here to 1


### present some of the concerns and interests of t he 2


### Navajo Nation in my capacity as Executive 3


### Director for the Navajo EPA. 4


### Concerning the proposed supplemental 5


### rule, the authority that provides for me to sit 6


### in this chair and speak in this capacity comes 7


### from the Navajo Nation Clean Air Act, which was 8



### en acted in 1995 and amended in 2004, provides the 9



### Executive Director with a set of 10


### responsibilities, including weighing in on issues 11



### that are under the umbrella of the Clean Air Act 12


### and Clean Air Act programs. 13



### I want to thank the United States 14



### Environmental Protection Agency for this proposed 15


### supplemental rule and the opportunity to comment 16


### today. We want to say that additional written 17


### comments will be submitted by the Navajo Nation 18


### to U.S. EPA by the December 19th deadline. 19


### Historically environmental rule making has 20



### been oriented to the interests of the states and 21


### industry. Environmental regulatory perspectives 22

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### from Indian Country, from the Navajo Nation, are 1


### routinely overlooked. EPA celebrating a 30th 2


### year of having an Indian policy. The 1984 Indian 3



### po licy and the 1990 amendments to the Federal 4


### Clean Air Act should prevent perspectives from 5


### Indian Country from being overlooked. 6


### However, U.S. EPA today still faces 7


### challenges to develop rules that work for Indian 8


### Country, including the Navajo Nation. 9


### Regarding the work that we do at Navajo 10


### EPA, I've been in my position for 11 years now. 11


### We've been working extremely hard with U.S. EPA 12


### under a framework of partnership. But it's been 13


### a very tough row convincing EPA that when you go 14


### into rulemaking and d evelopment of these 15


### regulations, that you do a good job providing for 16


### the perspectives from the Navajo Nation 17


### Government and the Navajo people. 18


### I want to commend you today for this 19


### public hearing again. It's very welcomed and 20


### it's my hope and my agency' s home, and the Navajo 21


### Nation Government's hope that these types of 22

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### forums, either from EPA or other parts of the 1


### federal government, continue as the federal 2


### agencies continue to develop rules and finalize 3


### all kinds of regulations that impact our 4



### homelands and we look forward to inform you of 5


### our perspectives so that these rules eventually 6



### make sense for our homelands and our communities. 7


### The proposed supplemental rule is a good 8


### proposal, and we thank you for that. But the 9


### Navajo Nation recommends the foll owing. A 10


### reexamination of the building block approach. 11


### And we appreciate an appropriate application of 12


### building blocks, but only with much better 13


### understanding of the conditions on the Navajo 14


### Nation. We will supply those descriptions in our 15



### written comm ents. 16


### The proposed best system of emissions 17


### reduction, or BSER, is not flexible enough. And 18


### when you combine it with a reexamination of the 19


### building block analysis, our hope is that EPA 20


### would be open to considering the use of other 21


### baseline years, other t han 2012 in its analysis 22

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### and eventual revising of the BSER for the Navajo 1



### Nation. 2


### We welcome the opportunity to continue to 3


### speak directly to the U.S. EPA rule makers and 4


### our partners in the U.S. EPA in San Francisco, 5


### Region 9, and the Office of Air and Radiation in 6


### the U.S. EPA Headquarters Offices in Washington, 7



### D.C. 8


### We have had communications with you 9


### earlier this year. We submitted a letter on 10


### September 18th in response to the proposed rule 11


### and prior to the issuance of this proposed 12


### supplemental rule

. 13


### In that letter we highlighted an issue, 14


### and I'd just like to remind you that we are 15


### requesting, within the proposed rule, that there 16


### be a clarification for the part of that rule that 17


### has created an obstacle for renewable energy 18


### development on the Navaj o Nation. Page 34922 of 19


### the proposed rule, not the proposed supplemental 20


### rule, the proposed rule, opens up for comment 21


### whether renewable energy generated on the Navajo 22

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### Nation can be used to meet the goals of the state 1


### 111(d) plan. And we think that that needs to be 2


### clarified because right now our experience has 3


### been since this proposed rule was issued this 4


### past June it has stifled renewable energy 5


### development on the Navajo Nation, and we hope 6


### that this can be fixed immediately within this 7



### process. 8



### Thank you very much. 9


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. At this moment 10


### we do not have any more registered speakers of 11


### which I'm aware, so we'll take a brief recess and 12


### come back in session when we have some people 13


### ready to speak. Thank you. 14


### (Recess from 3:02 p.m. unti l 3:20 p.m.) 15


### MR. NEIBLING: Good afternoon again, 16


### ladies and gentlemen. We have somebody who is 17


### looking to speak and so to keep her from waiting 18


### too much longer, we'll reconvene. 19


### A couple of housekeeping items. We found 20


### a cell phone and a sandwich that a re sitting at 21


### the registration desk if you want to talk to 22

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### anyone or if you feel hungry please go try to 1


### claim them. And we still have some open slots so 2


### if you are here and would like to speak and 3


### haven't yet had the chance to, please check in at 4



### the des k and we will accommodate you. 5


### With that I would like to invite up Nancy 6


### Nesky. 7


### MS. NESKY: Can you hear me okay? 8



### MR. NEIBLING: I think so. 9


### MS. NESKY: My name is Nancy Nesky, it's 10



### N

- E

- S

- K

- Y. 11


### Arizona Public Service Company, APS, 12


### appreciates the U.S. En vironmental Protection 13


### Agency holding a public hearing in Phoenix, 14


### Arizona to allow APS the opportunity to provide 15


### comments on the proposed supplemental rule, 16


### establishing carbon pollution emission guidelines 17


### for existing electric generating units, or EGUs 18


### in Indian Country. 19


### As one of the Southwest's largest in 20


### electric utilities, APS operates in a manner that 21


### is protective of the environment and is committed 22

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### to environmental stewardship and sustainable 1


### operations. 2


### APS operates a generation fleet 3



### consisti ng of coal fired, gas fired, and nuclear 4



### units to serve the needs of over 1 million APS 5


### customers. APS also has an increasing portfolio 6


### of renewable energy and manages a robust behind 7


### the meter energy efficiency program. 8


### APS owns and operates the Four Co rners 9


### Power Plant and owns a portion of the Navajo 10


### Generating Station, both of which are located on 11


### the Navajo Nation and subject to the proposed 12


### supplemental rule. 13


### APS further appreciates EPA's extensive 14


### public outreach since issuing the supplemental 15



### prop osal, which included meeting with and seeking 16


### input from the affected utilities and the Navajo 17



### Nation. 18


### In addition to meeting with EPA regarding 19


### the proposed supplemental rule, APS met with 20


### representatives from Navajo Nation and the Salt 21


### River Project, o perator of the Navajo Generating 22

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### Station, the only other power plant located on 1


### the Navajo Nation, in a cooperative effort to 2


### identify issues and seek a compliant solution 3


### that will mutually benefit all parties. 4



### Based on all these discussions and 5


### analysis APS offers the following comments to EPA 6


### regarding the proposed supplemental rule. 7


### EPA's proposed supplemental rule contains 8



### several elements that are critical to the 9



### successful reduction of carbon emissions. 10


### Accordingly these elements should remain in th e 11


### final rule. Specifically APS supports EPA's 12


### recognition that APS's closure of three units at 13


### the Four Corners Power Plant and SRP's expected 14


### shutdown and curtailment of generation at the 15


### Navajo Generating Station by 2019 represent 16


### approximately a 30 per cent reduction of total 17


### 2012 carbon emissions on the Navajo Nation. 18


### APS further supports the ability to 19


### convert the Navajo Nation rate based goal to a 20


### mass based goal in the ability of the Navajo 21



### Nation to establish a multi

- jurisdictional 22

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### agreement with states to allow trading of 1



### emission credits. 2



### APS believes that these elements are 3


### vital to successful compliance with the final 4


### rule, and will allow Navajo Nation the 5


### flexibility it is seeking. 6


### In setting the carbon emission rate goals 7


### for the Navajo Natio n EPA used the same four 8


### building block methodology it used to set the 9



### state

- specific goals. This methodology used 2012 10


### as the emissions baseline year and in which to 11


### apply specific criteria. However APS does not 12


### support using 2012 as the baseline year f or 13


### studying the future emission rate goals for the 14


### Navajo Nation because 2012 was not representative 15


### of future unit operations at the Four Corners 16


### facility. In general, 2012 is a poor choice to 17


### use as a baseline year for coal fired power 18


### plants, including Four Corners because the 19


### depressed price of natural gas during 2012 caused 20


### lower than normal dispatch of many coal fired 21



### units. 22

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### Conversely, as natural gas prices have 1


### subsequently risen utilities have increased the 2


### dispatch of coal

- fired units. Additio nally, 3


### forced outages, which were 30 percent higher at 4


### Four Corners in 2012 than the average value at 5


### Four Corners since 2005, are out of control of 6


### unit operators and should be considered when 7


### establishing a representative baseline year. 8



### APS recommends th at EPA not use 2012 as 9


### the baseline year and allow a much longer look 10


### back period to at least 2005 in order to 11


### establish a more representative baseline year. 12


### APS supports the use of heat rate efficiency 13


### improvement projects at existing coal fired EGUs 14



### as a means of reducing carbon emission rates. 15


### Heat rate efficiency improvement projects 16



### will achieve lower carbon emission rates and are 17


### often cost justified. In fact such actions are 18


### business as usual for electric utilities, as 19


### utilities have been impleme nting unit efficiency 20


### improvement projects for decades. 21


### APS agrees with EPA that incorporation of 22

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### best operational and maintenance practices may 1


### achieve efficiency improvement at some coal fired 2


### EGUs, however the Four Corners Power Plant 3


### already employs the industry's best operating and 4


### maintenance practices, and therefore there is 5


### little to no room for additional efficiency gains 6


### in this area. There is no certainty that even 7


### the 2 percent gain proposed by EPA can be 8



### achieved. 9


### APS determined that many of the equipment 10


### upgrades proposed by EPA in the proposed 11


### supplemental rule have already been implemented 12


### at Four Corners. Although APS did identify some 13


### equipment upgrades that could be implemented on 14


### the Four Corners units to achieve an improved 15



### heat ra te, these minor improvements must be 16


### considered in light of the degradation in 17


### efficiency that will result from the parasitic 18


### load of pollution control projects required to 19


### comply with the Regional Haze Rule, such as lack 20


### of catalytic reduction controls an d a stack 21


### liner. This parasitic load will negatively 22

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### impact unit heat rate and result in a maximum 1


### potential efficiency improvement between 0.7 2


### percent and 1.6 percent. 3


### Heat rate degradation due to future 4


### compliance requirements must be accounted for in 5


### addition to any heat rate improvement 6


### achievements. Accordingly each coal

- fired unit 7


### should be assessed considering the actual heat 8


### rate improvement projects that can be completed. 9


### In the proposed supplemental rule EPA 10


### correctly concluded that building block 2 is not 11


### applicable on the Navajo Nation because there are 12


### no natural gas complying cycle units on the 13


### Navajo Nation for redispatch to occur. However, 14


### EPA has discussed additional approaches to 15


### building block 2 in the October 30th, 2014 notice 16



### of d ata availability. One such approach includes 17


### the adoption of the minimum level of generation 18


### shift concept. 19


### This concept presents numerous 20


### achievability standards if applied to the Navajo 21


### Nation. EPA should not expand the type of 22

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### natural gas facilities i n its determination of 1


### the best system of emission reduction to include 2


### coal firing with natural gas. APS opposes the 3


### inclusion of coal firing natural gas at existing 4


### coal fire plants as part of building block 2 5



### because of the technical obstacles and cost 6


### considerations that coal firing would present at 7



### the Four Corners Power Plant. 8


### The Four Corners units are currently 9


### equipped with the ability to combust a small 10


### amount of natural gas for start

- up operations and 11


### early flame stabilization. However, the amo unt 12


### of heat input from natural gas combustion is 13



### limited to a small fraction of the total heat 14


### input to the units. An enormous capital 15


### investment to modify the boilers and increase the 16


### natural gas supply infrastructure which would 17


### also take numerous years to complete, would be 18


### necessary to achieve a material reduction in 19


### carbon emissions from coal firing natural gas. 20


### Such actions simply cannot be 21


### rationalized or cost justified. Once again APS 22

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### would like to thank EPA for the opportunity to 1


### provide comments on the important regulatory 2



### action and for EPA's consideration of the 3


### comments presented by APS. Thank you. 4


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. 5


### MS. NESKY: And a copy of the comments 6


### will be provided to the front desk. 7


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. We appreciate 8



### that

. 9


### At this time I believe we once again have 10


### nobody waiting to speak so we will take another 11


### recess until such time as we have speakers ready. 12


### Thank you. 13


### (Recess from 3:29 p.m. until 4:59 p.m.) 14


### MR. NEIBLING: Thank you. At this point, 15


### having no other sp eakers, we will adjourn the 16


### afternoon session. This hearing will resume at 17


### 6:00 p.m. local time in this same room, so please 18


### enjoy some dinner and we'll see you in a little 19


### bit. Thank you. 20


### (Dinner recess from 4:59 p.m. until 6:04 21


### p.m.) 22

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### MR. GREEN: This i s Greg Green. I just 1


### wanted to open the hearing back up after the 2


### dinner break. There's nobody here to testify so 3


### we're going to put it into recess and then if 4


### somebody else shows up we'll open it back up 5


### again. Good enough? 6


### (Recess from 6:04 p.m. unti l 7:59 p.m.) 7


### MR. GREEN: This is Greg Green. I'm the 8



### director of the Outreach and Information 9


### Division. The hearing has been in recess. I'm 10


### going to open it back up. It's 8:00 and we have 11


### no one here to testify so this hearing is 12


### formally closed. Than k you. 13


### (Whereupon, at 7:59 p.m., the hearing 14



### concluded.) 15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

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