1



### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5


### Public Hearing on 6



### Proposed Clean Power Plan for 7


### Existing Power Plants 8

9

10

11



### 9 : 0 0 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. 12



### Thursday, July 31, 2014 13

14



### Room A 15


### William S. Moorhead Federal Building 16


### 1000 Liberty Avenue 17


### Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 1522 2 18

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### EPA PANEL 1: 1



### ROBERT WAYLAND, Panel 1 Chair, 2


### Energy Strategies Group, EPA 3



### WILLIAM NIEBLING, 4



### Office of Air and Radiation, EPA 5



### DEBRA DALCHER, 6


### Office of Air Qua lity Planning and Standards, 7



### E PA 8

9



### EPA PANEL 2: 10



### ROBERT WAYLAND, Panel 2 Chair, 11



### Ener gy Strategies Group, EPA 12



### DEBRA DALCHER, 13


### Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards, 14



### E PA 15



### JEREMY MARKS 16


### Office of Atmospheric Programs, EPA 17

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### EPA PANEL 3: 1


### TOM POWERS, Panel 3 Chair, and Senior Policy 2



### Advisor, Office of Air and Radiation, EPA 3



### SHA WN GARVIN, Regional Administrator, 4


### Region 3, EPA 5



### CHRISTIAN FELLNER, 6


### Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards, 7



### EPA 8



### JEREMY MARK, 9


### Office of Atmospheric Programs, EPA 10

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2



### PA TRICIA DEMARCO, 3


### Carnegie Mellon University 27 4



### VINCE BRISINI, 5


### Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

- DEP 31 6



### NATE NATALE, 7



### Home Performance Coalition 37 8



### MICHAEL MOFFE TT, 9


### Resident of West Virginia 4 2 10



### NA TALIE TENNANT, 11


### Secretary of State, West Virginia 50 12



### DENNIS SIMMERS, 13


### Resident of Pennsylvania 56 14



### JOHN BREED, 15


### American Security Project 61 16



### CINDY FRICH, 17


### Elected Delegate, West Virginia 67 18



### JOHN PI PPY, 19


### Pennsylvania Coal Alliance 73 20



### CATHY DAHLKEMPER, 21


### County Executive, Erie County Pennsylvania 81 22

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### C O N T E N T S ( c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### PAT BROWN, 3



### Sierra Club 8 6 4



### GARY WIRE, 5


### Resident of Pennsylv ania 91 6



### ROBERT HOWARD, 7


### Resident of Pennsylvania 9 4 8



### FRANK SZOLLOSI, 9



### National Wildlife Federation 9 9 10



### CRICKET HUNTER, 11


### Pennsylvania Interfaith Power and Light 104 12



### CHRIS HOWITZ, 13


### Resident of Pennsylvania 10 8 14



### EDWARD PERRY, 15



### National Wildlife Federation 11 2 16



### DAN ALTERS, 17


### Lycoming Audubon Society 116 18



### PAUL SHERLOCK, 19



### Resident of Ohio 120 20



### JULIE FRANKS, 21


### Resident of Pennsylvania 123 22

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### C O N T E N T S ( c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### KEVIN STEWART, 3


### American Lung Association 126 4



### SHANNON FISK, 5


### Earthjustice 13 2 6



### JIM PROBST, 7


### Resident of West Virginia 137 8



### CATHY BECKER, 9



### Resident o f Ohio 139 10



### MARK KLUTHO , 14 3 11



### PEGGY COYLE, 12


### Resident of Michigan 148 13



### ROBIN WILSON, 14


### Resident of West Virginia 153 15



### LAURA YOKOCHI, 16


### Resident of West Virginia 158 17



### LYLE R AY ROBERTS, 18


### Citizen’s Climate Lobby 160 19



### RANDY CUNNINGHAM, 20



### Sierra Club 165 21

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### C O N T E N T S ( c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### ANDRE SAINT CYR, 3



### Resident of Ohio 170 4



### WILLIAM THWING, 5



### Creation Care Partners 174 6



### JENNIFER MCINTYRE, 7



### Mom’s Clean Air Force 180 8



### THOMAS AU, 9


### Clean Air Board of Central Pennsylvania 194 10



### THOMAS COLLINS, 11



### Resident of Ohio 198 12



### MICHAEL SAUVANTE, 13



### National Common wealth Group 20 2 14



### THOMAS SHUSTER, 15



### Sierra Club 208 16



### JAMES KOTCON, 17



### Sierra Club 214 18



### RENE HERNANDEZ, 19


### Resident of West Virginia 217 20



### JESSIE SHUMACHER, 21


### Keystone Energy Efficiency Alliance 220 22

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### C O N T E N T S (c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### BARRY LEWIS, 3


### Resident of Pennsylvania 22 4 4



### JOYLETTE PORTLOCK, 5


### Communitopia 2 29 6



### BRIAN KAUFFMAN, 7


### Keystone Energy Efficiency Alliance 23 4 8



### SALLY WENZEL, 9


### University of Pittsburgh Asthma Institute 2 39 10



### MONICA MORRILL, 11



### Citizen of the United States 245 12



### LINDSEY MOSELY

- ALEXANDER, 13


### American Lung Association 253 14



### MICHAEL BUTLER, 15


### Consumer Energy Alliance 259 16



### AK SHAI SINGH, 17



### Resident of Ohio 264 18



### BRUCE BURCAT, 19



### Mid

- Atlantic Renewable Energy Coalition 270 20



### PATRICIA MARIDA, 21



### Sierra Club 275 22

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### C O N T E N T S (c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### JAMES VANNOSTRAND, 3


### Resident of West Virginia 280 4



### RICK CLAYPOOL, 5



### Public Citizen 28 6 6



### JOY BERGEY, 7


### Resident of Pennsylvania 292 8



### SOPHIE GRUETERICH, 9


### Resident of Pennsylvania 295 10



### SUSAN EDWARDS, 11


### Resident of Pennsylvania 299 12



### ZACHARY GORDON 13


### Resident of Pennsylvania 305 14



### PAUL LUBOLD, 15


### Resident of Pennsylvania 307 16



### THEODORE ROBINSON, 17



### Citizen Power 3 1 3 18



### JOANNE KIL GOUR, 19



### Sierra Club 3 1 6 20



### KIMBERLY GLAS, 21



### Blue Green Alliance 320 22

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### C O N T E N T S (c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### KAREN MELTON, 3


### Chester County Citizens for Climate 4



### Protection 326 5



### D IANA AIMES 33 0 6



### MELANIE MCCOY, 7


### Michigan Municipal Electrical Association 334 8



### VERONICA COPTIS, 9



### Center for Coal Field Justice 340 10



### DAVID MOSCATELLO, 11



### Sierra Club 34 3 12



### SETH LONG, 13



### Resident of Maine 34 8 14



### SHARON PIL L AR, 15



### Solar Unified Network of Western 16


### Pennsylvania 352 17



### LEA GEISSE, 18



### Blue Green Alliance 3 5 6 19



### DOUGLAS SHIELDS, 20


### Resident of Pennsylvania 3 59 21

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### C O N T E N T S ( c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### VERNON HALTOM, 3



### Coal River Mountain Watch 37 1 4



### PAULA SWEARENGIN, 5


### Resident of West Virginia 376 6



### DENNIS GROCE, 7


### Resident of Pennsylvania 378 8



### MIRIAM LINDAUER, 9


### Resident of Pennsylvania 38 2 10



### ALEXANDRA SCHMITTLEIN, 11



### Resident of Massachusetts 387 12



### SUSAN HOPPE, 13



### Resident of Mich igan 389 14



### MICHAEL MABRY 393 15



### KEVIN SUNDAY, 16



### Pennsy lvania Chamber of Business and 17



### Industry 395 18



### WANDA GUTHRIE, 19



### Thomas Burton Center 400 20



### DAVI D MANGOLD, 21



### Resident of Ohio 404 22

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### C O N T E N T S (c ontinued) 1



### PAGE 2



### PAUL SEVERANCE, 3



### Resident of Indiana 40 6 4



### NIKKI LUKE, 5


### Resident of West Virginia 409 6



### NICK KENNEDY, 7



### Mo untain Watershed Association 41 3 8



### CHRIS WEST, 9


### Resident of Pennsylvania 418 10



### RACHEL MARTIN GOLDMAN, 11


### Resident of Pennsylvania 420 12



### PHIL SMITH, 13



### United Mine Workers of America 425 14



### IAN SMITH, 15


### Resident of Pennsylvania 430 16



### NAOMI SWERDLOW, 17



### Resident of Iowa 435 18



### RAYMOND VENTRONE, 19



### Boiler M aker 154 440 20

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1


### MR. WAYLAND: We are awaiting the arrival 2


### of the Regional Administrator from Region 3 who 3



### will be here shortly, so we will begin the 4


### hearing momentarily. Thank you. 5


### Good morning, everyone. My name is Bob 6


### Wayland. I’m the leader of the Energy Strategies 7


### Group for the EPA office in Research Triangle 8



### Park, North Carolina. I’m one of the Chairs of 9


### today’s Public Hearing, and I would like to 10


### personally thank each of you for taking time out 11


### of your day to be here this morning. 12


### Joining me on the panel this morning to 13


### my immediate right is William Niebling from OAR’s 14



### immediate office. Next to him is Debra Dalcher 15



### from the RTP office where I’m from. And then 16


### later this afternoon we will be joined on the 17


### panel by Jeremy Mark, who is coming from our 18


### Office of Atmospheric Programs in Washington, DC. 19


### We are here today to listen to your 20



### comments on the tw o proposed rules to reduce 21


### carbon pollution from power plants. EPA 22

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### announced both of these rules, proposed rules, on 1



### June 2nd, 2014. 2



### Power plants are the largest source of 3


### carbon pollution in the United States, accounting 4



### for roughly one

- third of all dom estic greenhouse 5


### gas emissions. 6


### The first rule is EPA Proposed Clean 7


### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 8


### proposal consists of two main parts, state 9


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 10


### their power plants and guidelines to help states 11



### deve lop their plans for meeting these goals. 12


### This proposal gives states flexibility in 13


### determining how to meet these goals. States will 14


### choose what goes into their plans that show how 15


### they will achieve the needed reductions in 16


### greenhouse gases and meet their goals by 2030. 17


### The second rule is EPA’s proposed rule, 18



### to address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 19


### and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 20


### set emission limits for two groups of power 21



### plants. 22

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### First, those that make physical 1


### operational c hanges that increase the plant’s 2


### maximum achievable hourly rate of emissions, and 3



### those that replace components to such an extent 4


### that the new components exceed fifty percent of 5


### the capital cost of an entirely new comparable 6



### power plant. 7


### If you would like more details on either 8



### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 9


### available near the registration desk on the first 10



### floor, and there is some information here on 11



### tables in the back of the room as well. 12


### Today’s hearing is only one of four 13


### public hearin gs across the country this week on 14



### these two proposed rules. We have had a 15


### tremendous interest in each of these hearings and 16


### I’d like to thank you for taking time out of your 17


### day today to join us and share your comments with 18


### us and the American people. 19



### W e have a lot of people signed up to 20



### speak today and we want to hear from all of you. 21


### So before we get starting I’d like to go through 22

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### a few housekeeping items and ground rules that 1


### will help make today’s hearing run smoothly. 2


### First, please be sure that y ou have 3


### checked in at the registration desk downstairs. 4


### Even if you are not planning to speak today, 5


### please make sure that you’ve registered 6



### downstairs for the record. 7


### And if you signed up to speak online or 8



### by phone, but haven’t told us that you’re here
, 9


### please step out to the registration desk and let 10



### the EPA staff there know you’re here so that we 11


### can get you properly scheduled into a time slot. 12


### Second, this is important, if you are a 13


### speaker, you were given a room letter when 14



### checked in. There is Ro om A and Room B. This is 15


### Room A, so if you’re in Room B, you need to leave 16


### and go up to the fifteenth floor to find the 17


### right room. And this is a good time to switch if 18



### you need to do that. 19


### Okay, I’m going to go through just a few 20



### ground rules about how we’re going to work today. 21


### I’m going to call the speakers up in pairs to the 22

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### table here. When your name is called, if you 1


### would please come to the front and sit at these 2



### two chairs two at a time, it will facilitate the 3



### flow of speakers throughout the da y. 4


### This is important for the record. When I 5



### call on you to speak, please state your name 6


### clearly into the microphone and spell your last 7



### name so that the court reporter can accurately 8



### reflect that in the record. 9


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 10


### gi ve their comments. We have a light to help you 11


### know how much time you have left to speak. The 12


### light is over here to my left, and when the light 13



### turns from green to yellow, that means you have a 14


### minute remaining. When it turns red, that’s the 15


### signal that your five minutes is up. 16


### The light will flash red and beep when 17


### you have spoken the five minutes and it’s time to 18


### stop. I’m going to try to be as polite as 19


### possible today. I don’t want to cut anybody off 20



### in mid

- sentence , but we do have a full agenda 21



### ru nning into the evening tonight, so if you could 22

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### please try to stick to the five minute period, 1



### that would be very helpful. 2


### When you are finished speaking, please 3


### remain at the table until your colleague has 4


### finished speaking, and then you can leave 5



### togeth er and I will call the next two speakers. 6


### We’re here today to listen. However, 7


### anyone on the panel may ask you clarifying 8


### questions at the end of your testimony. I will 9



### then call the next speakers and so on and so on. 10


### If you have brought written copy of your 11


### testimony, please leave that here on the table 12


### when you’re done, and it will help us ensure that 13


### your comments are adequately reflected in the 14


### transcript that’s being developed for this 15


### hearing today. 16



### Because of the large number of people who 17



### hav e signed up to speak today, and for us to be 18


### fair to each of you, we’re going to have to 19


### strictly enforce the five

- minute limit. 20


### If you have additional comments you would 21


### like to make, you can submit them in writing to 22

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### the docket or leave them here at the table and we 1


### will incorporate them in the record. 2


### Let me assure each of you that EPA gives 3


### just as much consideration to comments we receive 4


### in writing as we do to comments that we receive 5


### at a public hearing like this. So if you have 6



### more that you woul d like to say beyond the five 7


### minutes, please submit it. Your comments will be 8



### reviewed and taken under consideration. 9


### There is still plenty of time to get 10



### written comments in, and there are comment cards 11


### available here at the registration desk. 12



### Comment s must be received by October 16th, 2014 13


### at midnight. We will put any written comments 14


### submitted today in the official Air Docket for 15


### this proposed rule. Instructions for submitting 16


### written comments in other ways are available at 17



### the materials near the r egistration desk and in 18



### the back of this room. 19


### We are scheduled to go until eight 20


### o’clock tonight. We will take short breaks 21


### throughout the day as needed. There is a lunch 22

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### break mid

- day , and there’s a dinner break, I 1



### think it’s a five o’clock, from five to six, and 2


### then we will convene at eight. We will remain 3


### here as long as necessary tonight, permitted with 4


### the building staff, to hear anyone who might come 5


### in for that late evening session. 6


### If you have any questions during the day, 7



### please see the staf f at the registration desk and 8


### someone will try to help you. 9


### Finally, I want to ask each of you to 10



### please be respectful of everyone who speaks 11


### today. We have people with a wide variety of 12



### views in the audience and we want to hear from 13



### all of you. 14



### So t hat we can do that, and to be fair to 15


### everyone, we ask that everyone listen quietly. 16


### Even applause can slow things down and eat into 17


### people’s speaking time, and we want to hear from 18


### everyone who has signed up to speak. 19


### Thank you, again, for taking the ti me 20



### today to share your comments on EPA’s proposed 21


### rules, and as soon as Regional Administrator 22

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### Garvin gets here, we will call the first 1


### speakers. He would like to make some initial 2


### preliminary opening remarks. So at this time 3


### we’ll adjourn the hearing un til he arrives to 4


### make his opening remarks. Thank you. 5



### [Recess from 9:06 to 9:11 a.m.] 6


### MR. WAYLAND: Good morning. We’ll call 7


### the hearing back to order, and at this time I’d 8


### like to turn the floor over to Regional 9



### Administrator, Shawn Garvin. 10



### MR. GAR VIN: Thank you, Bob. Good 11


### morning everyone and thank you for joining us 12


### today as part of this national effort of 13


### obtaining comments on EPA’s Clean Air Act 14


### Proposal to limit carbon emission from power 15



### plants. 16


### This is the fourth public hearing that 17



### EPA ha s held on this proposal. Earlier this 18


### week, EPA held three separate public hearings in 19


### Atlanta, Denver and Washington, DC. 20



### Since the Clean Power Plant announcement 21


### in early June, EPA has received a tremendous 22

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### amount of feedback. Recognizing this inter est, 1


### we added a second day of public hearings in each 2



### location. 3


### Since last September, prior to ever 4


### putting pen to paper, EPA collected extensive 5


### public input, including eleven public listening 6


### sessions and meetings with over 300 groups from 7



### across the country. 8


### This input has helped guide development 9



### of the Clean Power Plan. What we heard helped 10


### shape the guiding principles of our proposal. We 11


### heard that flexibility is key, so we maximized 12



### choices states could make for themselves. 13



### We heard that Stat es could cut pollution 14


### cost effectively by looking at the energy system 15



### as a whole, so we built that in. 16


### We heard the power sectors interconnected 17


### and not bound by state lines, so we allowed 18


### states to work together or go it alone, whatever 19



### works best fo r them. 20


### The public comment period is 21


### incredibility valuable to us. We met with 60 22

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### different groups in just the first 25 business 1


### days after our proposal. As for the beginning of 2



### this week, we received more than 300,000 comments 3



### and expect many more. We want no stone unturned 4


### and no good idea off the table. 5



### We expect great feedback at these 6


### sessions. These are a critical opportunity for 7


### people to speak to their government directly. 8



### But let me make, also, very clear, any comment we 9


### receive by October 1 6th will be equally accepted 10


### and analyzed. There are no special comments or 11


### special groups. 12


### We look at everything carefully, and EPA 13


### does the work to shape that into a rule we all 14


### can be proud of. We know the purpose of this 15


### rule couldn’t be more import ant, and that’s why 16


### we’re putting so much importance on the process 17


### and the comments we are getting are going to help 18


### us get this rule right. 19


### Science tells us that climate change is 20


### real, that human activities are fueling that 21



### change, and that we must act now to avoid those 22

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### devastating consequences. 1



### In June, 2013, Preside Obama announced 2


### his Climate Action Plan, calling on agencies 3


### across the federal government, including EPA, to 4


### take action to cut carbon pollution, to protect 5


### our country from the impac ts of climate change 6



### and to lead the world in this effort. 7


### The President directed EPA, quote, “to 8


### work expeditiously to complete carbon pollution 9


### standards for both new and existing power 10



### plants,” end quote, because currently no federal 11



### standards exist fo r carbon pollution from the 12



### country’s largest source. 13


### In September, 2013, EPA announced it was 14


### setting standards for carbon pollution emitted by 15


### new power plants to ensure that power companies 16


### investing in new fossil fuel fired power plants 17



### will use mod ern technologies, limiting emissions 18


### of harmful carbon pollution. 19


### Last month EPA proposed carbon pollution 20


### guidelines for existing power plants. These 21


### guidelines are required by the Clean Air Act to 22

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### develop and implement programs for reducing 1



### carbon poll ution from the power plants operating 2



### in each state. 3



### EPA’s mandate is to deliver clean air, 4



### clean water, and safe and healthy lands to 5



### American families. We’ve done this for more than 6


### four decades. We’ve done it by relying on the 7



### best available science, being transparent in our 8


### decision making, and working with everyone to 9


### develop commonsense approaches to protecting and 10


### improving the environment across the country. 11


### Now before I turn things back over to Bob 12


### to give you more details about the logistics a nd 13


### procedures for today’s hearings, let me conclude 14


### with these final thoughts. We know we don’t have 15


### to sacrifice a healthy economy for a healthy 16


### environment. History shows us that since EPA has 17


### existed, we’ve cut air pollution by more than 70 18



### percent, w h ile the gross domestic product has 19


### tripled. 20


### We know that climate change can’t be 21


### solved overnight. It’s going to take broad, 22

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### concerted efforts from all levels of government, 1


### industry, NGOs, utilities, the public, and the 2


### international community. 3



### We kno w that climate change is already 4


### presenting very real risks to our health, our 5


### economy, and our way of life, and we cannot 6



### afford further delay. People from all sectors of 7


### the economy and all walks of life are calling for 8



### climate action because our moral obligation is 9



### clear. We all want to make sure the world we 10


### leave our children is clean, safe, and as healthy 11


### as possible. That’s what our proposal is 12


### designed to do. 13


### I want to thank you all for being here 14


### today, and we look forward to hearing your 15



### comme nts. And with that, I’ll turn it back over 16



### to Bob. 17



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, Shawn. And no, 18


### I’m not going to read the opening statement 19


### again, so you don’t have to worry about that. 20


### Thank you very much for taking time to be 21


### here with us today and to p ut your stamp of 22

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### approval on what we are doing here today. 1



### And with that, I’d like to call the first 2


### two speakers to the chairs up here, Patricia 3



### DeMarco and Vincent Brisini. 4


### MS. DEMARCO: My name is Patricia 5



### DeMarco, D

- e

- M

- a

- r

- c

- o. I am a resident of 6


### Pittsburgh, PA, retired utility executive and 7


### Commissioner of the Regulated Utilities of 8


### Alaska, currently a professor at Carnegie Mellon 9


### University in the Green Sciences Institute. 10


### I thank you for pursuing this important 11


### rulemaking initiative. We are f acing the 12


### definitive challenge of our time, the need to 13


### shift from a fossil fueled economy to a renewable 14


### and a sustainable economy within decades. 15



### I stand to speak for the countless 16



### constituents who will not be heard in these 17


### proceedings, the unborn gene rations whose fate 18


### will be determined by our actions, but who have 19


### no voice in the decisions that will shape their 20



### future. 21


### Our fossil fueled energy system is by far 22

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### the largest contributor to carbon dioxide 1


### emissions that are causing climate changes. And 2


### the transition from a fossil fueled economy to a 3


### renewable energy powered economy is the surest 4


### way to abate the more serious effects of climate 5


### changing, gas emissions, and will preserve the 6



### land from more and more evasive and destructive 7



### methods of extr action of fossil fuels. 8



### A change from an energy system that’s 9


### entrenched for 200 years seems a daunting task. 10


### But the consequences of continuing this pattern 11


### of burning the fossil legacy that created the 12


### oxygen we depend on are too devastating to think 13



### o f. We must make better choices that lead to a 14


### stable economy based on a sustainable energy 15



### system. 16


### These are not primarily choices about 17


### technology, they’re a question of our values. It 18



### is an ethical decision to whether we leave our 19


### children a living ea rth or an earth that has been 20


### devastated by the effects of combustion of fossil 21



### fuels. 22

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### I support the actions expressed in this 1


### regulation to directly confront the major cause 2


### of combustion that are contributing to climate 3


### change. The existing fossil fuel ed electric 4


### generating system is the major cause, and it only 5


### converts 30 percent of the fossil fuel that’s 6


### burned into usable electricity. 66 is lost as 7



### waste heat. 8


### This technology has been in place since 9



### the 1800's, and it’s time to look at a more 10



### eff icient and more effective way to generate 11


### electricity. 12


### The approach that is presented in this 13


### rulemaking addresses the need for just and 14


### reasonable outcomes for the industry affected, as 15


### well as for the consumers and the general public 16



### interest. The be nefits that are outlined in your 17


### regulation show 46 to 82 billion dollars of 18


### benefit, well over the 51⁄2 to 7.3 billion dollars 19


### in expected cost of implementation. There is no 20


### reason not to proceed aggressively on 21


### implementing this process. 22

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### Regarding the s tate plans and goals, the 1


### energy system in this country moved to a market 2


### based policy in the Energy Policy Act of 1992, 3


### with the restructuring of the energy industry. 4


### However, the market signals that reach consumers 5


### at the point of purchase are heavily s kewed by 6


### industry’s subsidies, 7.2 billion to fossil fuel 7


### industries, and only 400 million in the renewable 8



### and non

- combustion industries. 9


### The ability for consumers to make 10


### unbiased choices has been weighted mightily by 11


### this tradition pattern of action. Having 12


### explicit recognition of the benefits of abating 13


### carbon combustion is helpful in giving consumers 14


### better signals. 15


### I am filing comments in writing to 16



### elaborate on some of these issues, but I want to 17


### mention that it is important that the public 18



### receiv e effective information about the 19


### importance of this task. We are sixteenth

-- 20



### fifteenth out of sixteen nations, industrial 21


### nations, in the practice of energy efficiency in 22

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### this country. We are double the per capital of 1


### carbon emissions in this country c ompared to 2


### Europe, which is certainly a highly developed 3



### country. 4



### We must abate demand as well as look at 5


### the generation process. If we fully implement 6


### the potential for energy efficiency and 7


### conversation by individual actions, the reduction 8



### of carbon combustion from generating units will 9


### not be a burden to the economy but a benefit. 10



### Thank you. 11



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Does 12


### anyone on the panel have a question of Ms. 13



### DeMarco? Thank you. 14


### MR. BRISINI: Good morning. I am Vince 15



### Brisini, B

- r

- i

- s

- i

- n

- i, Deputy Secretary for the 16



### Office of Waste, Air, Radiation, and Remediation 17


### in Pennsylvania’s Department of Environmental 18



### Protection. 19


### Thank you for the opportunity to testify 20



### on EPA’s Proposed Clean Power Plan Rule. The EPA 21


### has proposed emission s guidelines for reducing 22

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### carbon dioxide emissions from existing fossil 1


### fuel fired electric generating units. 2


### The overall national target is quantified 3



### for each state based on their 2012 emission 4


### intensity rather than the publicized 2005 levels. 5



### EPA dete rmined each individual state’s 6


### emission reduction target using 2012 data for 7


### building blocks, with most measures to be taken 8



### outside the fence line of affected units. These 9


### measures are largely directing power generation 10


### from coal fired electric generatin g units to 11



### other non

- affected units in actions. 12


### Pennsylvania recognizes EPA’s limited 13


### authority to regulate carbon dioxide emissions 14



### under the Clean Air Act. Our concern to relate 15


### to establishing carbon dioxide reduction targets 16



### under Section 111(d) that forced the development 17


### of a State energy plan. Simply stated, 18


### Pennsylvania believes the 111(d) state plan 19



### should not be the state energy plan, rather the 20



### 111(d) plan should be part of the state energy 21



### plan. 22

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### Pennsylvania has developed a White Paper 1



### recom mending a framework for the Section 111(d) 2


### guidelines. The White Paper was sent to EPA 3


### Administrator, Gina McCarthy, on April 10th, 4



### 2014. In that paper we recommended EPA 5


### established emission guideline targets based upon 6



### actions that can be taken directl y at the 7


### existing fossil fuel fired electric generating 8



### units. 9


### This is consistent with previous 10


### emissions guidelines promulgated under the Clean 11


### Air Act by EPA for other source categories. 12


### Consequently, EPA should limit its definition of 13



### best system of e mission reduction to actions that 14


### can be taken directly at the affected existing 15


### fossil fuel fired electric generating units 16


### without redefining the source. 17


### That interpretation is consistent with 18


### how the U.S. Supreme Court recently viewed best 19



### available co ntrol technology in the UARG versus 20


### EPA case which overturned EPA’s tailoring rule. 21


### The Court found that EPA guidance 22

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### acknowledged the best available control 1


### technology may not be used to require reductions 2


### in a facility’s demand for energy from the 3



### elect ric grid, which is the basis for the vast 4


### majority of emissions reductions targets in the 5


### proposed emissions guideline. 6


### We believe EPA needs to carefully weigh 7


### its proposed interpretation of best system of 8



### emissions reductions as it would establish 9



### preced ent for environmental regulation. 10


### As proposed, however, the guidelines 11


### would allow environmental regulatory agencies to 12


### establish programs that are more related to 13


### achieving desired social and economic outcomes 14


### rather than developing and implementing 15



### pe rformance standard to achieve emission 16



### reductions. 17


### Pennsylvania believes these types of 18


### social and economic decisions should be made by 19


### elected officials. The EPA has stated repeatedly 20


### that there is built in flexibility in the 21



### proposed Clean Power Plan rule. 22

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### Pennsylvania, however, is concerned that 1


### any purported flexibility is illusory and asks 2


### how flexibility can be achieved when EPA has 3


### already demonstrated that Pennsylvania will need 4


### to use all four building blocks to achieve an 5



### overall 31 percent r eduction from 2012 emissions 6



### level. 7


### From a practical standpoint, when EPA 8



### used all available measures to establish emission 9


### reduction targets that are so far beyond the 10


### reductions that can be achieved by existing 11


### fossil fuel fired electric generating unit s, the 12


### states have no other option than to use those 13


### same measures in a development of the State 14


### Energy Plan that would be required under the 15


### proposed section 111(d) program. 16


### Importantly, Pennsylvania does not 17


### believe that an environmental agency should 18



### r egulate or influence energy markets, or that 19


### energy markets should be in the business of 20


### environmental regulation. 21


### Pennsylvania appreciates the opportunity 22

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### to testify on the proposed Clean Power Plan Rule. 1


### Our White Paper demonstrates that Pennsylvania 2



### d oes support efforts to reduce carbon dioxide 3



### emissions. We believe, however, that it must be 4



### done in a lawful manner that results in cleaner 5


### air, more jobs and lower energy prices. 6


### By unleashing efficiency improvements, 7



### emissions reductions at the affec ted and other 8


### industrial sources will continue so long as a 9


### competitive marketplace continues to exist. 10


### My request to you include my detailed 11


### written testimony in the record. Also, I would 12


### like to enter into the record a copy of the 13


### Pennsylvania White Pa per, the fact sheet and the 14


### PowerPoint slides from my testimony before the 15


### Pennsylvania Senate Environmental Resources and 16


### Energy Committee on June 27, 2014. 17


### Once again, thank you for providing the 18


### opportunity for Pennsylvania to testify on the 19



### proposed Clean Power Plan Rule. We will submit 20


### detailed comments on the proposed rule to EPA in 21



### October, 2014. 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Thanks, Vince. Any 1


### questions? No? Thank you. 2


### And if you have written stuff you want to 3


### leave with us, you can leave it here and we wi ll 4


### get it downstairs. Thank you. 5


### Our next two speakers will be Michael 6



### Moffett and Nate Natale. 7


### MR. NATALE: Good morning. My name is 8



### Nate Natalie, N

- a

- t

- a

- l

- e, and I am 9



### Vice

- President of Operations for the Home 10



### Performance Coalition, a non

- profit 501( c)(3), 11


### that advances policy change through policymaker 12


### education, stakeholder engagement and research. 13


### Thank you for the opportunity to testify 14


### today. First we applaud the administration for 15


### this important effort to regulate carbon 16



### emissions, and for the recognition in the rule 17


### that energy efficiency should be part of the 18



### answer to carbon reductions. 19



### We believe Home Performance meets the 20


### BSER test and is a crucial part of building block 21


### number four in the proposed rule. 22

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### In fact, with more than 113 mil lion 1


### residences consuming 22 percent of all U.S. 2


### energy, this sector is critical for any program 3


### that targets emission reductions. 4


### We are here today to offer suggestions 5


### for improvement to the draft regulations and will 6


### provide further details in our Octo ber 16th 7



### comments. 8


### We urge EPA to consider allowing states 9


### to account for natural gas savings and energy 10


### efficiency programs. While we recognize, that 11


### offsets are not allowed by the Clean Air Act, we 12


### urge EPA to recognize the unintended consequences 13



### tha t could be associated with fuel switching and 14



### the carbon that would not be captured and 15



### measured, as well as the inefficiencies in 16


### delivery of energy efficiency services that may 17


### come by excluding efficiency gains from gas and 18


### other heating fuels under the rule. 19


### For example, in the residential sector, 20


### current home performance programs that aim to 21



### reduce the overall energy use of a home may 22

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### instead be encouraged by the rule to switch from 1


### electric to natural gas heating without ensuring 2



### that this effort is coupled with air sealing and 3



### insulation. Unless the home is well insulated, 4


### the opportunity to achieve potential savings will 5



### be lost. 6



### Further, the carbon emitted from the 7


### natural gas heater will not be measured. We 8



### recommend that EPA offer states bes t practices 9


### for ensuring that energy savings is maximized in 10


### residual programs. 11



### Please know that not all energy 12


### efficiency programs are created equal. Today 13


### ratepayer funded programs are usually required to 14


### pass a cost effectiveness test. Despite recent 15


### updates, these tests are often implemented in 16


### ways that are biased against deeper energy 17


### efficiency investments because they account for 18


### all costs, but frequently ignore many of the 19



### benefits. 20


### A new screening effort developed by the 21



### Home Performance Coali tion called the Resource 22

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### Value Framework provides a powerful tool for 1


### public utility commissions to ensure that their 2



### cost effectiveness tests are balanced, 3


### transparent, and account for public policy goals. 4



### We urge EPA to recommend the use of the 5



### RVF to s tates that wish to test their 111(d) 6


### compliance programs for cost effectiveness in 7


### order to encourage deeper savings opportunities. 8



### Home Performance Programs have many 9


### different designs as noted in the proposed rule, 10


### and there are best practices that we u rge EPA to 11


### include in its guidance to states that are 12


### developing their implementation plans. 13


### We urge the EPA to consider that there 14


### are new technologies emerging every day in the 15


### marketplace that can assist with program design 16



### and carbon measurement, su ch as smart meters, 17


### home energy management devices, advanced 18


### thermostat and smartphone applications. 19


### We are at a turning point for new energy 20


### technology and data analytics, and we strongly 21


### recommend the EPA recognize this nascent 22

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### revolution and ensure tha t the regulation not 1


### close the door to new technologies and program 2


### designs to encourage innovation. 3


### As EPA develops its rules for evaluation, 4


### measurement, and verification, we urge the 5


### consideration of energy consumption data as 6


### provided by utilities. T his data in the form of 7



### traditional utilities bills and more advanced 8


### technology such as smart devices, can provide 9


### valuable information about energy use and 10


### contribute to accurate quantification of savings. 11


### This information should be recognized and 12



### consi dered for use in the EMV protocols. 13


### However, protocols and policies to allow for both 14


### data access and analysis may take time to 15



### develop. 16


### We encourage the EPA to include the use 17



### of this data in its EMV rules. 18


### And finally, we ask EPA to consider the 19



### non

- ratepayer funded solutions to energy savings 20


### in the private sector, and to encourage 21


### aggregation and the development of a registry to 22

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### register and retire emissions so private 1


### contractors and companies can provide from 2


### electricity reduction outside the uti lity 3



### programs. 4


### I’d like to thank you on behalf of the 5


### Home Performance Coalition for the opportunity to 6


### testify today, and ask that you please ensure 7


### that continued attention is paid to the only 8


### element of the rule that directly impacts and 9



### includes small business and average Americans, 10


### and that’s the energy reductions in the 11


### residential sector. Thank you. 12


### MR. WAYLAND: Thanks. Questions? 13


### I had one question. I presume the 14


### reductions you’re referring to would be part of 15


### the building block four piece, t he demand side 16


### reduction aspect of

-- 17



### MR. NATALE: Correct. 18



### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. Thank you. 19



### Michael? 20



### MR. MOFFE TT: Good morning. My name is 21


### Michael Moffett, and I, as a West Virginian, has 22

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### decided to step up and serve as a member of the 1


### West Virginia H ouse of Delegates, a position I’m 2


### currently a candidate for. But let me be clear, 3


### this is not a campaign stop, nor is it a box I’m 4


### looking to check. 5


### I come before you this morning because on 6



### June 2nd, when I began to read the proposal, I 7



### saw that you wer e looking to have comments from 8


### the public, and I knew that I had to do all that 9



### I could to come up and speak. 10



### Let me start with a few words from a 11


### Protestant pastor from 1946, who, himself, had 12


### the revelation that his government that he had 13



### supported was wrong. He was locked up for seven 14


### years for preaching this. 15



### First, it came from the socialist, and I 16


### did not speak out because I was not a socialist. 17


### Then they came from the trade unionist, 18


### and I did not speak out because I was not a trade 19



### unionist. 20


### Then they came from the Jews and I did 21



### not speak out because I was not a Jews. 22

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### Then they came from me and there was no 1



### one left to speak for me. I’m not a power plant 2



### owner. I do not work at a power plant. I am not 3



### an owner of a coal mine and I do not work at a 4



### coal mine. 5


### I am someone that enjoys being able to 6


### flip the switch and know that my lights come on, 7


### someone that appreciates the heat in the winter, 8


### someone who enjoys a little cooling in the 9



### summer. 10



### In the 1970's many of our government 11


### agencies warned of the impending Ice Age. Global 12


### cooling was predicted by NASA, the National 13


### Academy of Science, by college professors, and by 14



### researchers. 15


### When I was slightly older than my son, 16


### who is here with me, we had a president that took 17


### office and right from the get

- go he started 18


### talking about using executive orders about his 19


### energy plan, his energy policy that encouraged 20


### everyone to set their winter thermostat at 55 21


### degrees overnight and 65 degrees during the day. 22

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### It was a policy of conservation, one th at 1


### addressed concerns of not having enough power for 2


### this great nation. 3


### Conservation is a good thing. We have 4



### learned that to be better environmental stewards, 5


### reduce, reuse, recycle is not common vernacular 6


### in the U.S., and we no longer had smog and t he 7


### acid rain that were common not too many years 8



### ago. 9



### The Clean Air Act and Clean Water Act of 10


### the 1970's have had some positive results. Our 11



### airs and our waters are cleaner. But now we are 12


### going too far. 13


### At home we are blessed to have an amazing 14



### pow er plant, AEP’s John Amos Coal Fired Power 15


### Plant. AEP spent two billion dollars to install 16


### well established scrubber technology to reduce 17


### sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide. 18


### I had the privilege to hear from them a 19


### few weeks ago in connection with our Pu tnam 20


### County Chamber of Commerce Leadership Program. 21



### They are proud of the work that they have done. 22

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### They are also aware of the potential power 1


### shortages that are looming as we take more coal 2


### fired power plants off line. 3



### The MAT standards on mercury unde r the 4


### utility MATS are about to take effect in April, 5


### 2015. They will reduce the power generating 6


### capacities of the U.S. by 34.7 gigawatts, or nine 7


### percent of our annual usage, which may result in 8


### anticipated brown outs during the hottest summer 9



### days and the coldest winter nights. The EPA only 10


### anticipated that to be a 9.5 gigawatt loss, an 11


### estimated cost of 9.6 billion per year. 12


### Speaking of cost, the increased cost to 13


### produce power has led to increases of three 14


### percent in 2013 and 2014, and 27 percent si nce 15


### 2001, hitting our hardest working families and 16



### fixed income seniors. 17

18


### Focusing on these new CO2 regulations, we 19



### expect to see 30 to 60 of our power plants close. 20


### According to the Department of Energy’s Deputy 21


### Assistant Secretary for Clean Coal, the cost of 22

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### these new regulations would be a 70 or 80 percent 1


### increase on wholesale electricity prices. Some 2


### of our banks are estimating that could really be 3


### up to a 300 increase. 4



### The cost will come in brown outs and 5



### black outs that occur because we won’t h ave coal 6


### fired plants to turn back on. 7



### We cannot afford to eliminate our most 8


### reliable and most cost effective energy source 9


### for the supposed hundredths of a degree that this 10


### may affect in climate. 11


### Coal is West Virginia. Yes, it is a 12


### marketing theme t hat is heard regularly, but I 13


### know that it is more than just some clever 14


### jingle. Coal really impacts every single one of 15


### the 1.8 million residents of our great state. 16


### Every county benefits from the severance tax that 17


### is placed on coal, and the money goes to all 18


### sorts of projects that their county commissions 19


### deem appropriate. 20


### I must point out that it is noticed that 21


### these hearings today are far enough from the 22

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### southern coal fields to make it impossible for 1


### the nearly 5,000 people that work directly in th e 2


### industry in three of my four counties of Boone, 3


### Lincoln and Logan, to make it here to speak, and 4


### for those that make a living and industries that 5


### prosper off of those hard working miners to come 6



### here to speak. 7



### I come here today for those that cannot. 8



### C oal has built this country that many of us love. 9



### Coal from our land that created the steel that 10


### has built so many great things in this nation. 11


### It has built this, the steel city. Coal has 12


### given us relatively inexpensive energy for years, 13



### and it must be a part of our future. 14



### The efforts in clean coal have created a 15


### number of technological advances that make it a 16


### viable source to continue to be our leading 17


### energy producer while other technologies become 18



### more cost efficient. We have coal seams in this 19



### coun try, alone, that will power us for 250 years. 20


### This move by the EPA and this 21


### Administration price it out of existence makes no 22

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### sense to me. The carbon catcher technology is 1


### not ready for use. It is not efficient. It is 2


### costly. I know the Bill lists al l sorts of cost 3


### benefits, but in speaking to those that actually 4


### create our power, it has been researched and it 5


### is not there yet. 6


### So despite our present action plan, this 7


### EPA or congress must act to reign in this 8



### overreach and the overreach, one that we are now 9


### seeing in the Clean Water Act as well. 10


### The world is adding coal fired power 11


### plants without emission controls every week, and 12


### some of our EU partners are switching back to 13



### coal. 14


### I’m here to speak because we continue to 15



### use coal to power our countr y, and this Bill will 16


### make that impractical and nearly impossible. I 17


### speak out for the coal miner and the coal 18


### industry. Thank you for your time. 19


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Questions? 20



### Thank you very much. 21


### Our next two speakers this morning will 22

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### be Nata lie Tennant and Doris Simmers. 1


### Oh, I’m sorry, Dennis, Dennis Simmers. 2



### Welcome, Madame Secretary. 3


### MS. TENNANT: Well, good morning. I am 4


### West Virginia’s Secretary of State, Natalie 5


### Tennant, and I appreciate the opportunity to be 6



### here. Thank you, Mr. Garvin and Mr. Wayland, 7



### everyone on today’s panel as well. 8


### And thank you to the United Mine Workers 9


### of America who are here today, and who are 10


### preparing to march outside, and who work hard to 11


### keep the lights on in rooms like this every day. 12



### Thank you for being here. Thank you. 13


### A couple of months ago, panelist, I 14



### visited McBride Electrical in Welch, West 15


### Virginia. Harold McBride and I were talking and 16


### I ask him how would his business be impacted by 17


### the regulations on coal fired power plants. 18



### Harold looked around the room, and he looked at 19



### the workers in that room, and he said most of 20



### these guys would be sent home. 21



### And that’s why I’m here today. I’m her e 22

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### to speak on behalf of Harold, his workers and 1



### their families, and all the families all across 2


### West Virginia, and America who depend on coal. 3


### Folks like Mike Peyton and Levi Allen who are 4



### outside. 5


### Mike works at a Marion County coal mine 6


### and his paycheck puts food on the table for his 7



### wife, Amber, and their three children. 8



### Levi works at a Marsha ll County coal 9


### mine. He and his wife, Shannon, are raising five 10


### children. The two youngest are twins. 11



### I’m also here for Don McKettic 12


### (phonetic). Don and his wife, Donna, are from my 13


### hometown in Fairview, West Virginia and I know 14



### them well. Don retired after more than forty 15


### years in the coal mines, and at age 81, he is 16


### here right now because he knows if miners keep 17


### losing their jobs that they won’t be able

-- 18


### there won’t be any retirement left for folks like 19


### him who have literally given their knees, the ir 20


### backs and their shoulders to power America. 21


### As I was preparing to testify today, I 22

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### was looking through statistics, and figures, and 1


### facts, and it all occurred to me that you all 2



### don’t need any more numbers. You are the 3



### experts. But what you don’t see m to understand 4


### is that those numbers represent people. People 5


### with mortgages to pay and families to feed. 6


### And that’s why it’s so wrong that West 7


### Virginians like Mike, Levi, Don, had to travel 8


### all the way to Pittsburgh just to be heard. You 9



### know we are less than a hundred miles from West 10


### Virginia, and after everything our coal miners 11


### have given America, you could not make the 12


### slightest bit of extra effort to cross the 13



### border. 14



### A year ago, almost to the day, I sat 15



### across the table from Administrator Gina 16


### McCarthy. I looked her in the eyes and I asked 17


### her to come to West Virginia. I asked her to 18



### hear our stories, to drive our roads, but 19



### instead, here we are. The White House and the 20


### EPA have chosen to snub West Virginia, but West 21


### Virginians will not be ig nored. 22

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### Whether this Administration chooses to 1


### recognize it or not, the fact still remains that 2


### coal is nearly 40 percent of our electricity in 3


### this country and it’s not going anywhere. And 4


### trying to squeeze coal out of the energy equation 5


### is not only u nrealistic, but it’s also dangerous 6


### and irresponsible. 7


### There is no reason to pit clean air 8


### against good paying jobs. West Virginia can lead 9


### the country in developing coal technology that 10


### supports both. And I’ve seen it firsthand, and 11



### I’m happy to tell y ou about it in further detail 12



### after this. I’ve seen it firsthand at the 13


### National Research Center for Coal and Energy at 14


### West Virginia University, or at the National 15


### Energy Technology Lab in Morgantown. 16


### Now studies show that costs of addressing 17



### climate ch ange would double without advanced coal 18


### technology. Carbon capture and storage simply 19


### must be part of the equation. 20


### This Administration has dropped the ball 21


### when it comes to making the necessary investments 22

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### to bring CCS technology to market, and these 1



### re velations threaten to derail the 2


### commercialization of CCS altogether. 3


### We know that advanced technology is 4


### imperative, but the Department of Energy is only 5


### investing a fraction of what it spends on 6


### research and development in renewable energy and 7



### energy ef ficiency on CCS. 8


### Now don’t get me wrong, energy efficiency 9



### and renewable energy development are worthy 10



### investments, but we cannot afford to leave coal 11


### out of the equation. And I challenge this 12


### Administration today to commit to building or 13


### retrofitting co al fired power plants across the 14


### country with CCS technology. 15


### And there is money. There is eight 16


### billion dollars sitting around unused as part of 17



### the Department of Energy Loan Guarantee Program 18


### already intended for CCS development. Instead of 19


### letting t hat money go to waste, use it to power 20



### this bold new initiative. We cannot afford to 21



### make

-- we can, I should say

-- we can afford to 22

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### make CCS a reality. We cannot afford not to. 1


### We know already that China is investing 2


### heavily in advanced coal technolog ies, and 3


### failure to keep up would put America at a 4


### competitive disadvantage. 5


### Invest in West Virginia and we will lead 6


### the way in advanced technology that can be sold 7


### around the world. Not only will this approach 8


### strengthen and protect our coal jobs in W est 9


### Virginia, it will create a whole new opportunity 10


### for American job growth, developing and 11


### perfecting CCS technology to meet global demand. 12


### As Harold McBride put it, we are not 13


### asking for any handouts. We simply want to be 14



### able to use what we have to e arn a living. Work 15


### with us, not against us. Instead of attacking 16


### coal jobs with regulations, invest in West 17


### Virginia and we will deliver for you the 18


### technology to cut emissions without cutting jobs. 19


### Thank you all very much for allowing me to be 20



### here. 21



### M R. WAYLAND: Thank you. Questions? 22

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### Thank you, Dennis, and I apologize for 1


### misspeaking. 2



### MR. SIMMERS: No problem, Barb. 3



### I was not as prepared as the secretary, 4


### so I’m going to have to put these on. I did not 5



### put the large font, so

-- good morning. My n ame 6


### is Dennis Simmers and I live in Cambria Township, 7


### Cambria County, Pennsylvania. 8



### And I have read

-- I’m sorry, 9



### S

- i

- m

- m

- e

- r

- s. I have read many reports on 10


### today’s issue, and I’m here to testify in my 11


### opinion on the wide view of my community’s 12



### perspect ive. 13


### I represent the sixth generation of my 14


### family to live in Cambria County, and through 15


### three successive generations, and now four with 16


### my children, we have been subjected to the 17


### hazards and detrimental consequences of discarded 18



### coal waste, waste bitumi nous coal on the surface 19



### of the earth. The effect is well known. Acid 20


### mine drainage, contaminated surface and ground 21


### water, hundreds of acres of unfit property, 22

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### public nuisance and life threatening train as 1


### well as air quality issues. 2



### The Revloc waste c oal pile was a perfect 3


### example, all in one of these detrimental effects. 4



### And L.J., would you show the folks those two 5


### pictures, please, go ahead, walk over. These are 6



### before and after photos. 7


### From my earliest recollection until I was 8



### 30, I can clearly r ecall the acid rotten 9


### extension contaminate of water around this pile. 10


### And at times it caught fire, resulting in smoke 11


### and odors crossing U.S. Route 422. I don’t know 12


### how large the pile was but it certainly 13



### encompassed many tens of acres. 14



### Some of the re sidents of Revloc bordered 15


### within feet of the pile. Approximately 20 years 16


### ago we witnessed the arrival of three waste coal 17


### fired electric generating stations in Cambria 18


### Township. By historical standards, it seemed 19


### like the coal piles were being eliminat ed in no 20


### time, and I believe that the Revloc pile, for 21



### example, has been totally removed. What took the 22

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### mining industry approximately 60 to 100 years to 1


### create was eliminated in less than 20 years at no 2



### cost to the taxpayer. 3


### I attended a similar public m eeting on 4


### September 29th, 2009, and heard a Sierra Club 5


### spokesman say that he would prefer if we let 6


### mother nature take care of these piles, and threw 7



### around the term ten thousand years. 8


### Well, with all due respect to that 9


### individual and on behalf of my c hildren, I 10


### disagree. I’m delighted that these piles are 11


### gone, such as Revloc. My children have no 12


### recollection of what was at that site. They’re 13


### not subjected to that odor smoke, dust, physical 14


### hazards of that pile any longer. 15


### The waste coal power indu stry has taken 16



### an unchecked volatile situation and controlled 17


### it. The waste coal pile sits there as it was 18


### placed a long time ago with rainwater and snow 19


### melt freely dispersing all the heavy metals and 20


### pollutants into the surface and ground water. 21



### The wa ste coal air smells returned in a cement 22

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### like form, you know, free unchecked dispersion of 1


### pollutants is gone. The area is recovered with 2


### clay soils and revegetated with native species. 3


### Mammals of all kinds, insects and aquatic life 4



### have returned to thes e sites. 5


### As a matter of fact, at that pile, that 6



### water restored so well that it’s now considered a 7


### cold water fishery by the Pennsylvania Fish and 8


### Boat Commission. How great is that? 9


### The waste coal industry does not belong 10


### in discussions any further reg arding these air 11


### emissions regulations. Thirty years of technical 12


### study and high scientific integrity have 13



### concluded there is not basis for further 14


### punishing this industry. 15


### I’d like to close my comments with a 16


### request. I mean as a local resident with 17



### c hildren, I have witnessed the arrival of 18


### substantial solution to our problem. The waste 19


### coal power industry is in the process of safely 20


### remediating what I consider to be Pennsylvania’s 21


### number one environmental catastrophe. I urge the 22

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### EPA to support the w aste coal power industry’s 1


### unique position in cleaning up the environment 2


### and keeping in mind during your consideration of 3



### the proposed rule. 4


### I don’t live in Boston, Washington, 5


### Philadelphia or Seattle. We don’t visit this 6



### area once in a while, we live i n the community 7


### one hundred percent of the time. 8


### Show them those two. These are high 9


### school recreation fields in the giant shadow. 10


### That’s where we live, a waste coal pile. 11


### In my opinion, waste coal fired power is 12


### the very definition of environmental s tewardship. 13



### It should be encouraged and not made to be even 14


### slightly more financially burdensome or punitive. 15


### Thank you for my time this morning. Questions? 16



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Any 17


### questions? Thank you both. 18


### Our next two speakers will be John Breed 19


### and John Pippy. John Breed and John Pippy. 20


### MR. BREED: My name is John Breed, 21



### B

- r

- e

- e

- d. 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. Is Mr. Pippy in the 1


### room? John Pippy? 2



### MR. WAYLAND: Okay, Mr. Breed, we’ll go 3


### ahead with your testimony. 4



### MR. BREED: Good mor ning, and thank you 5


### for the opportunity to comment on the EPA’s Clean 6


### Power Plan. My name is John Breed. I am adjunct 7


### fellow with the American Security Project, a 8



### non

- partisan think tank. I am also a former Navy 9


### Lieutenant. I did six years with the U.S . Navy. 10


### I am not a regulatory expert, so I will 11


### not comment on the specifics of this rule, but I 12


### support the EPA in its ambition and goals. 13



### If there is one thing that my service as 14



### a nava l officer, my time at the Pentagon has made 15


### very clear to me, is that the United States can 16


### no longer wait to confront the threats posed by 17


### climate change. 18


### Speaking from a national security and a 19


### defense perspective, the threat I mean is more 20


### than just rising sea levels and melting ice caps. 21


### My concern lies in how cli mate change will make 22

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### large scale issues like regional instability 1



### around the world, extremism and terrorism more 2


### challenging for our country. 3


### A fact that few people realize, roughly a 4


### decade ago the admirals and generals at the 5


### United States Pentagon who lead our armed forces 6


### began to acknowledge climate change’s role in 7


### compounding national security threats. Realizing 8


### this, they also began taking measures to address 9


### the problems directly. 10


### From their perspective, climate change is 11



### not a matter of stat e or national politics, but a 12


### very real condition that defense planners must 13



### take into consideration. 14


### Now most notably, in 2009 Admiral 15



### Jonathan Greenert, who now serves as the leader 16


### of the United States Navy, launched task force 17


### climate change under the direction of now retired 18


### Admiral David Titley. This task force was 19


### instituted to study and make recommendations to 20


### Navy leadership on issues relating to policy, 21



### investment and action that will best affect the 22

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### future of Navy for structure and operations 1



### a round the world. 2



### Issues that task force climate address 3


### range from identifying the right ships to build 4


### now so that they are equipped to operate in the 5


### ice free Arctic, to the restructuring of the 6



### Navy’s bases around the world so that they are 7



### best suited to withstand rising sea levels. 8


### Today the Pentagon’s commitment to 9


### planning for climate change has expanded to the 10


### 2014 Quadrennial Defense Review better known as 11


### the QDR, and this is a document that serves as 12


### the military’s analysis of overall strategic 13


### objectives of potential military threats in the 14



### future. 15


### In it, it specifically notes climate 16


### change poses another specific challenge to the 17


### United States and the world at large, because of 18


### threat multipliers, threat multipliers. And 19


### these will aggrava te stressors abroad such as 20


### poverty, environmental degradation, political 21


### instability, and social tensions, conditions that 22

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### can enable terrorist activity and also enable 1



### other forms of violence. 2


### Now what that means, and you know, I wish 3



### I could stand here and say that, you know, our 4



### uniformed leaders have somewhat become determined 5


### to save the environment, but that’s simply not 6


### the case. Like big corporations, who are also 7


### beginning to acknowledge that climate change is 8



### an overall threat to their bottom l ine, the 9


### military understands that this is a threat to 10


### national security. 11



### Take the sub

- Sahara region, this is an 12


### area of the world that is already poor and has a 13


### marginal economic base centered mainly on 14


### agriculture. Introduce a period of extended 15



### drough t to that region’s limited resources, and 16


### the resources there automatically become scarcer. 17


### A possible consequence of this are that 18


### the people who inhabit these regions, unable to 19



### survive off the land, relocate to new cities and 20


### other regions occupied by different social 21



### groups. 22

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### When they do, subsequent consequences 1


### occur. Increased population density, combined 2


### with poverty might breed the kind of political 3


### instability and extremism seen in Pakistan. Or 4


### we could get new conflicts based on ethnic 5



### cleans ing, like those we’ve already witnessed in 6


### South Sudan and Rwanda. From the prospective of 7


### our military leaders, this is how climate change, 8


### you know, drought, multiply as a threat. 9


### Now note that this is an entirely 10


### speculative problem. Less than a year ago 11


### Typhoon Haiyan made landfall in the Philippines 12


### with the highest sustained winds in recorded 13


### history. When it did, people living in these 14


### densely populated and poor regions were left in 15



### ruin. 16



### In the wake of the storm the United 17



### States deployed the Ge orge Washington Strike 18


### Group, that’s 8,000 sailors and marines, to the 19


### region in order to respond to a potential 20



### humanitarian crisis. 21



### If that humanitarian crisis were to have 22

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### gone unchecked, it could have thrown into 1


### jeopardy a country that is considered a major 2


### strategic ally in kind of the engagement between 3



### the United States and China. 4


### Now it is not only a problem that’s 5


### occurring overseas. Defense support to civil 6


### authorities are also a growing military mission 7



### of the United States and has a direct e ffect on 8



### the radius of the National Guard, as well as 9


### other components of our domestic force. 10



### If a wide scale flood were to occur here 11


### in Pennsylvania, which the National Climate 12


### Assessment specifically references, you will see 13


### American troops deployed to provide logistical 14



### aid

-- oh, I’ll conclude

-- humanitarian aid and 15


### law enforcement support. They can only do this 16


### because they have planned for it, because they 17


### have identified the problem and planned for it. 18



### To conclude, the nature of this debate 19



### need s to shift from one of fact or fiction, to 20


### one of how to best mitigate the threat. It’s 21


### about acknowledging. The EPA’s proposed rule is 22

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### an important step forward in addressing these 1


### challenges of climate change, and I commend them 2



### for their efforts. Tha nk you. 3



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, John. Any 4


### questions? Has Mr. Pippy arrived in the room 5


### yet, John Pippy? 6



### Okay, our next two speakers

-- and we’ll 7


### come back to Mr. Pippy if he arrives in the room. 8


### The next two speakers will be Cindy Frich and 9



### Cathy Da h lkemper. 10


### MS. FRICH: Good morning. I’m Cindy 11


### Frich. I’m an elected delegate representing a 12


### large district in West Virginia, I’m from 13


### Morgantown, West Virginia. 14


### And thank you for having this hearing 15


### here. I know it is a large urban center, but at 16



### least it is closer to the coal fields than the 17


### public hearings for the proposed power plants 18



### were. 19


### I serve on the judiciary committee and 20


### the legislature, and the legislative rulemaking 21


### and review committee in the West Virginia 22

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### legislature. Not all states hav e a legislative 1


### review of rules. West Virginia does. So we have 2


### the opportunity to have some oversight over not 3



### only state agency rules, but also the State 4



### agency rules that are promulgated as a result of 5



### federal rules. 6


### And I wish Congress had some over sight 7


### over rules. I certainly wish they had some input 8


### into these rules. I’m really quite concerned 9


### that this is just coming from a federal agency 10


### without the support of the elected officials in 11



### D.C. 12


### I do represent West Virginia. As you 13



### would all know, that’s pretty much a coal state. 14



### I have to admit I feel that these rules are a 15


### threat to my state. We’re already having 16


### problems with our state budget. I really see 17


### problems ahead if these rules are implemented. 18


### Who’s going to pay for the miners’ 19



### pens ions, for the pension obligations, if you 20


### force the coal mines into bankruptcy. We already 21


### have quite a few bankruptcies, and from those 22

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### bankruptcies, we are learning now, that there are 1



### less coal operators, less tax revenues to pay for 2


### cleaning the water to comply with the Federal 3



### Clean Water Act and SMCRA, Surface Mine 4


### Regulations to keep the water clean. 5



### The water has to be kept clean decades 6


### after the mines close. If you don’t have any 7


### mines left, who’s going to be paying for that 8



### clean up? The ta xpayers? Certainly, the 9


### taxpayers of West Virginia will no longer be able 10


### to. They won’t be able to shoulder this burden. 11


### This is going to be a huge

-- have a huge impact 12


### on West Virginia. 13


### Now, serving on the rules committee, I 14



### understand that rules are supposed to be 15


### protecting the public health and safety. But 16


### they also have to be feasible. You also have to 17


### be able to implement these rules. 18



### I am a little confused on how these rules 19


### really protect public health and safety. I 20



### support rules. I’m a Republican. I represent a 21


### Democrat district. I have a flagship university, 22

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### West Virginia, in my district, so there are

-- I 1



### have a lot of liberal constituents. I have a 2


### wide range of constituents. It’s a Democrat 3


### district, but I’m a Republican. 4



### I s upport protecting people. I support 5


### keeping our air and water clean. I support rules 6


### that protect us from pollutants. I find it hard 7


### to understand how carbon is a pollutant. I don’t 8


### want to get into that discussion right now 9


### because my time is limited. 10



### So I know when I look at rules, you’re 11


### not really supposed to look at the job impact, 12


### you look at the public health, but frankly, this 13


### is going to be so devastating on West Virginia’s 14


### economy and the economy of the United States, I 15


### can’t help but think a bout poverty and the impact 16


### of people losing their job. These are good 17


### paying jobs. 18


### And this isn’t just going to hurt people 19


### in the coal fields, or the ancillary jobs. This 20


### is going to prevent and limit future 21


### manufacturing opportunities for this countr y, and 22

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### I find it very difficult when I go shopping to 1


### find anything made in the United States as it is. 2


### If we have a reliable energy source, we 3


### have natural gas that’s going to help us with 4


### manufacturing, but why would we limit our energy 5



### sources, why wou ld we eliminate the base load for 6


### the electric grid? Why would you do that? This 7



### seems to me like economic suicide for this 8



### country. 9



### And we should try to have energy 10


### independence. Look at the Middle East. Why 11



### would we want to rely on our energy from t he 12


### Middle East from people that do not like us that 13



### would

-- well, would like to destroy us and our 14



### allies. 15


### We can’t even help Europe right now to 16


### provide energy to them so that they can stand up 17


### to Russia’s aggressions. What position will we 18



### be in whe n we eliminate coal, the energy from 19


### coal? What’s that going to do to our national 20


### security? Why would a country do this to 21



### themselves? Why? 22

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### And another thing that you really need to 1


### think about, I beg environmentalists to think 2


### about this. If you lim it West

-- for example, if 3


### you limit West Virginia’s resources by shutting 4


### down the mines and forcing us to lose our jobs, 5


### how are we going to have the resources to pay for 6


### the West Virginia Department of Environmental 7


### Protection to inspect and monitor the water and 8


### the air for real pollutants. Please don’t remove 9



### -- please, we need to focus on real pollutants, 10



### not carbon. It’s a distraction. 11


### If you impact the industry in such a 12


### manner, how will we have the resources to keep 13



### our air and water clean? How are we going to pay 14


### for our inspectors? How will we do it? 15


### You know, we had a big crisis in 16


### Charleston when the legislature started this 17


### session this year with our water. I drank that 18


### water. I got ill the next day from drinking that 19



### water. Now, that was not on a coal mine site. 20


### It would have been more heavily regulated had it 21


### been. It was along the river in a tank. We did 22

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### not have rules to regulate tanks. 1


### I was right there for stronger 2


### regulations to have regulations for tanks and to 3



### keep our wate r clean. I am interested in keeping 4



### people safe from pollutants and harm, and I, 5


### again, find this very difficult to understand how 6


### carbon fits into that category. 7


### And again, I believe this is economic 8


### suicide. It’s going to impact our national 9


### security in a very grave manner, and I totally

-- 10


### I’m very concerned about this and I hope that you 11


### do not go forward with these rules. I thank you 12



### very much. 13



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, Delegate. 14


### Okay, John? Yes, okay, John Pippy and 15



### Cathy Da h lkemper. 16



### MR. PIPPY: Good morning. As was 17


### mentioned, my name is John Pippy. I am the CEO 18


### of the Pennsylvania Coal Alliance. We are the 19


### trade association that represents the interest of 20


### the bituminous coal mine operators and all the 21


### associated businesses, companies that su pport the 22

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### coal industry, and specifically the bituminous 1


### coal industry in Pennsylvania. 2


### To put into prospective, my association 3


### represents over 90 percent of the bituminous coal 4



### that’s mined in the commonwealth with over 310 5


### active companies involved. 6



### Ac cording to a recent economic impact 7


### study conducted by the Pennsylvania Economy 8


### League, the commonwealth coal mining industries 9


### supports more than 36,000 jobs and over four 10


### billion dollars annually to our state’s economy. 11


### There will be a lot of people tes tifying 12


### today who will talk about some of the broader 13


### impacts. What I’d like to do today is provide 14


### some testimony specific to the numbers coming 15



### from these proposals. Some of our concerns, some 16


### questions which we will then submit, 17


### electronically via the docket process, or to the 18



### proper docket, but we wanted to share these now. 19



### Coal accounts for 40 percent of the 20


### electricity generated in the Commonwealth of 21


### Pennsylvania, and of that, eighty percent of our 22

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### coal goes to steam jet power generation. So we 1


### are directly tied in with the electric grid, and 2


### that is critical to the coal economy in 3


### Pennsylvania. Therefore, any law or regulation 4


### that deliberately or unintentionally impedes coal 5


### usage by electric generators not only threatens 6


### the affordability an d reliability of electricity 7


### to ratepayers, but also causes severe economic 8


### consequences to coal production, jobs and 9



### livelihood. Local tax basis and the overall 10


### economy will be impacted. 11


### Unfortunately, our concern with the EPA’s 12



### proposed Clean Energy Pl an is that it represents 13


### one of the biggest obstacles to continued coal 14



### use that we have confronted in decades. 15


### Although it’s billed as being very 16



### flexible and achievable for states to curb 17


### greenhouse gas emissions, it’s in our minds a de 18



### facto attempt to transform America’s energy usage 19


### away from coal. And I will get into some of the 20


### specifics. 21


### Under the proposed plan Pennsylvania’s 22

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### average interim emissions rate goal from 2020 to 1


### 2029 is 1,179 pounds per megawatt hour, and it’s 2


### final emission goal is 1 ,052 pounds per megawatt 3



### hour. 4


### To achieve the final goal, Pennsylvania 5


### would have to reduce carbon emissions by 32 6


### percent over our 2012 levels, and if we use the 7



### 2005 baseline, which the EPA and the President 8


### uses a lot, it wouldn’t be 30 percent average , it 9


### would actually be 42 percent production in 10


### Pennsylvania’s CO2 emissions by 2030. And that’s 11



### -- correction, 42 percent, so that’s a very 12


### significant number. 13


### According to our own DEP in Pennsylvania, 14


### the CO2 emissions from our electricity generating 15



### f leet have already declined by 12 percent from 16


### 2005 to 2012. And our projected, if we continue 17


### on the path of what we’re doing right now in 18


### Pennsylvania, we will see a twenty

- two percent 19



### decline in CO2 emissions from 2005 to 2020, not 20


### even getting into 203 0. 21


### So what I would argue is we’re seeing 22

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### tremendous leadership. These reductions have 1


### been accomplished while Pennsylvania has 2


### maintained a very stable and reliable supply of 3


### electricity that is very competitive. Not only 4


### lower than the national average , but also lowest 5


### among our neighboring northeastern states who 6


### we’re starting to be compared with many times. 7



### You could attribute this fact

-- it’s not 8


### just about coal

-- you can attribute this fact to 9


### 95 percent of our generation comes from coal, 10



### nucle ar and natural gas. And obviously, we’re 11


### seeing an increase in natural gas usage. 12


### Moreover, we actually already implemented 13



### in the mid 2000's, I believe it was around 2006, 14


### an energy portfolio on the books that required 15


### electric distribution companies to adopt plans to 16


### reduce energy demand and consumption within their 17



### service territories. At that time I was a state 18


### senator. I’m a Republican. I was one of the few 19


### who was on the Bills as a sponsor for that 20


### legislation, and we sent the model back in 2006 21


### prior to requirements from the federal 22

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### government. 1


### So we believe we are taking the right 2


### steps despite having all the above energy 3


### portfolio in place. If we were to follow the 4


### rules that you propose, that’s being proposed 5


### right now, that would complete ly eliminate coal 6


### or significantly eliminate coal from the 7


### portfolio. 8



### DEP also testified that if we have to 9



### follow these rules, that by 2030, over 70 percent 10


### of coal consumption levels will decrease by over 11


### 70 percent. We’ll go from 33 million tons to 12



### ab out 10 million tons. We’ll go to a coal 13


### utilization rate of about 17 percent at the power 14



### plants, and everyone knows that you can’t run a 15


### plant on 17 percent. So we believe there will be 16


### a lot of unintended consequences associated with 17


### this plan. 18



### We wou ld ask the Agency a couple 19


### questions. Will we get clarification on how the 20


### plan would credit states like Pennsylvania for 21



### the good work we’ve always done, for the 22

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### efficiencies that we’re talking about? Does the 1


### Agency intend to exempt such upgrade from t he NSR 2


### triggering mechanisms, which would be very 3


### prohibitive, to the efficiencies you’d like the 4


### existing plants to do, and there are significant 5


### concerns about the grid liability and what will 6


### offset the coal plants that have been providing 7


### power, specif ically in the cold winters. Over 95 8


### percent of the coal plants were in usage during 9



### the polar vortex. A lot of those won’t be around 10


### in 2016 under current regulations, not even the 11


### proposed regulations. 12



### So has EPA

-- does EPA have numbers that 13



### can speak to the grid liability and the pricing 14



### associated with that? I know I’m out of time and 15


### I know how important that is, so I will submit 16



### the rest for the record under the docket process. 17


### I appreciate the time. What we’re asking is, 18



### we’ll sit down and look at the details and do 19



### some of the math so that we can have a reasonable 20


### life path that gets us to continuous improvement 21



### everyone talks about. Thank you very much. 22

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### MR. GARVIN: Thank you. Could I just ask 1


### folks, as they’re coming in and out of the room
, 2


### to try to be as quiet as possible to be 3



### respectful of the speakers that are up here 4


### testifying. I know the doors are open and some 5


### of the noise is filtering in, but let’s try to 6


### keep it as quiet as possible inside the room and 7



### at the door so that we can hear the comments that 8


### are being made. Thank you. 9



### And one last reminder for the court 10



### reporter, please spell your last name when you 11


### come up to testify so that we get it correct in 12



### the record. Sorry for the delay. 13



### MS. DAHLKEMPER: No problem. Good 14



### mo rning, Regional Administrator Shawn Garvin and 15


### EPA officials. My name is Cathy Dahlkemper. I 16


### am the County Executive from Erie County, 17


### Pennsylvania. 18



### And I’d like to thank President Obama for 19


### taking an unprecedented step forward and 20


### announcing a series o f executive actions to 21


### reduce carbon pollution. Prepare the United 22

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### States for the impacts of climate change and lead 1


### international efforts to address global climate 2



### issues. 3



### I would also like to thank EPA 4


### Administrator, Gina McCarthy, and the regional 5



### off ice for the opportunity to participate today 6


### in support of the EPA Clean Power Plan. 7


### Today I sit before you as the County 8


### Executive of Erie County, Pennsylvania, having an 9


### obligation to the more than 280,000 residents, 10


### and more importantly, I stand and si t here in 11


### front of you as the mother of five and the 12


### grandmother of six. 13


### All of these people will be negatively 14


### impacted if we do not take the necessary steps 15



### now to address carbon emissions and climate 16


### pollution. Clean air is critical to protecting 17



### the public health and the environment. 18


### There is also evidence showing that it’s 19


### a good investment. The EPA’s Clean Power Plan 20



### offers a common sense, flexible, and achievable 21


### way to help protect the health of our communities 22

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### and address the impact of a chaot ic climate on 1



### our world. 2


### What is great is that this plan allows 3


### states to design plans that best fit our regional 4


### economies, and mixes of energy sources. We, here 5


### in Pennsylvania, get to decide how we move 6


### forward to protect our air as well as our 7



### clima te. 8


### As County Executive, I am tasked with 9


### safeguarding the health and welfare of my 10


### constituents. I’m charged with public safety, 11


### with protecting the most vulnerable, and with 12


### ensuring a safe and vibrant community now and 13



### into the future. 14



### Children, the elderly and the poor are 15


### the most vulnerable to a range of climate related 16


### health effects. In Pennsylvania one in five 17



### children suffer from asthma, with those numbers 18


### predicted to increase as the climate warms. If 19



### you’ve never seen one of your loved ones , a 20


### little tiny two

- year

- old, have an asthma attack, 21


### you haven’t seen the effects of this on a small 22

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### child. 1



### The elderly too often suffer from heat 2



### stroke and even death as we see in terms of the 3


### temperatures increase. 4


### Poverty rates in Erie County are am ong 5


### the highest in Pennsylvania. It’s those who are 6


### marginalized that will feel the full brunt of 7


### climate change as its effects become more 8


### pronounced in the coming decades. The price of 9


### food will likely increase, and the poor are 10



### almost always the harde st hit when we have harsh 11



### weather related disasters. 12


### Pennsylvania’s number one industry is 13


### agriculture. In Erie County, agriculture still 14


### is a major segment of our economy, yet that 15


### industry has growing issues due to climate 16



### change. They’ve seen extreme rain events, 17


### unseasonably hot or cold weather, even for Erie, 18



### and drought. 19



### The Clean Power Plan not only protects 20



### the health of our children and families, it’s a 21



### common sense approach that puts control, as I 22

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### said, directly into the hands of the state. 1



### T his is something that I think we should 2


### all feel good about. Reduced carbon emissions is 3


### a matter of public health. It is a government 4


### agency fulfilling its purpose. Mostly, it’s 5


### about our future and the legacy that we will 6


### leave our children and our gr andchildren. 7


### Here in Pennsylvania and throughout the 8



### country we do not have to choose between the 9


### health of our citizens and the strength of our 10


### economy. This plan offers opportunities to grow 11


### and strengthen Pennsylvania’s workforce, to 12



### create families a nd saving jobs of the future. 13


### The Clean Power Plan gives the 14


### Commonwealth a variety of tools to establish to 15


### reach a specified target of carbon emission 16



### reduction. 17


### It places emphasis on a comprehensive 18


### approach to energy, and it allows us to work with 19



### Pe nnsylvania’s current energy production. 20


### The proposal is chiefly aimed at cutting 21


### pollution. This can be achieved if we give 22

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### workers and businesses the tools and the 1



### incentives to innovate. 2


### In my hometown of Erie, we have the 3


### opportunity to join with o ur neighbors along the 4



### shores of Lake Erie in Ohio, to build an offshore 5


### wind farm, some of the best possibilities for 6


### offshore wind in the country. 7


### We’re working on a program to improve the 8


### energy efficiency of our homes. There is great 9


### potential for jo b growth in these initiatives. 10



### Throughout the Commonwealth we can save 11



### money, reduce energy demands and put people to 12


### work by employing energy efficiency measures, 13


### properly investing in clean energy technology 14


### such as advanced biofuels, emerging nuclear 15


### technologies, and offshore wind will take us to a 16



### more vibrant future. 17


### Pennsylvania has an opportunity to 18


### develop a strong, all inclusive plan that moves 19


### us forward, to once again be the leader of energy 20



### throughout the world. As a country, we have the 21


### opportunity to become a global leader in our 22

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### energy future that protects our vulnerable 1


### municipalities, our open spaces and most 2


### importantly, our citizens. 3


### The Clean Power Plan is a first step, an 4


### important first step that demonstrates the United 5



### States is resolute in addressing climate change. 6


### I thank you for the opportunity to speak in front 7



### of you today. 8



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Okay, our next 9


### two speakers will be Pat Brown and Gary Wire. 10



### MS. BROWN: Ready? 11



### MR. WAYLAND: Yes. 12



### MS. BROWN: My name is Pat Brown. I’m an 13


### educator, climate change organizer, a member of 14


### the Sierra Club Clean Energy Committee, youth 15



### advocate and a concerned member of the urban low 16


### income community in Cleveland, Ohio. 17



### I would first like to commend the EPA on 18



### the carbon emissions reduction from the power 19


### plants by 12 to 15 percent since 2005. Still, 20


### together we have a lot of work to do, and this 21


### hearing will set us forward in a moving direction 22

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### with a collective goal of improving the quality 1



### of life for our children and the next generation. 2


### As we unite with the responsibility to 3


### make a great impact in the lives of our 4


### communities, together we can accomplish this goal 5


### with everyone taking responsibility for our 6


### environmental impacts. And I appreciate this 7


### opportunity to speak before you as a citizen of 8


### this country and a concerned member of the 9


### community. 10


### Let us first begin to discuss several 11


### impacts of carbon pollution in our daily lives. 12


### This includes the health impacts of our children, 13


### elderly and disabled, those with limited 14


### communication skills, with the inability to 15


### explain wants and needs, yet in the asthmatic 16



### related concerns. 17



### It is stated that there is an estimated 18



### cost of more than a hundred billion dollars 19


### annually in health costs, and more than 12,000 20



### emergen cy room visits per year. 21


### My personal experience with asthma began 22

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### as a child, remembering the inability to 1


### communicate what was happening at the time of 2


### experiencing several asthmatic attacks. This 3


### condition still exists today. However, until the 4



### Afford able Healthcare Act was implemented, I had 5



### no insurance to obtain the medicines needed. Not 6


### until this year am I able to obtain the necessary 7



### asthmatic medicines. 8


### To further elaborate, carbon pollution 9


### has an impact on our food and water supply in 10



### additi on to its economic impacts. While working 11


### as a clean energy organizer, it was stated that 12


### there is over 2,000 tons of toxins placed in the 13


### environment daily by coal power plants. 14


### In fact, due to the amount of mercury in 15



### Lake Erie, it is recommended not t o exceed the 16


### consumption of two pieces of fish annually. Now, 17


### this is disheartening because as a child I 18


### remember fishing with my family in Lake Erie, yet 19



### these level of toxins robs our children and our 20


### families of this experience together. 21



### Still, carbon pollution not only has an 22

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### impact in our marine life, but our land as well. 1


### According to the Ohio State Extension Program, 2


### the amount of lead contamination in the City of 3


### Cleveland has an impact on community farming and 4


### urban gardening. The impacts are m ostly in areas 5



### where coal power plants are located. 6


### Thus, common pollution creates both an 7


### impact on our food and water supply and the basic 8



### needs for human and animal survival. Yet there 9


### is an opportunity to improve the impacts of food, 10



### water, health an d health costs, in addition to 11


### creating jobs. Together we can accomplish this 12


### goal through proposed cap and trade initiatives, 13


### allowing carbon power plants to purchase carbon 14


### credits, while allowing gradual implementation of 15


### clean energy improvements and establishing annual 16


### benchmarks to assist in attaining the carbon 17


### pollution reduction goals by 2030. 18


### In fact, according to the former EPA 19


### Administrator, Christie Whitman, the gross 20


### domestic product grew 195 percent while major 21


### environmental projections wer e put in place from 22

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### 1970 through 2006. 1


### In conclusion, although we have made 2


### great strides to move our country forward, in 3


### fact, it is stated that the U.S. has already 4


### reduced carbon emissions from power plants by 12 5


### to 15 percent, yet we still have much w ork to do 6


### to accomplish a collective goal and improving the 7


### quality of life for our children in the next 8


### generation. 9



### This would include the electric sector 10


### reducing emissions 35 to 40 percent, below 2005 11


### levels by 2020, to achieve its share of the 12



### Preside nt’s 17 percent economy wide goal, a goal 13



### of 35 percent below 2005 by 2020, or 25 percent 14


### below 2012 levels by 2020 is achievable. 15


### Still, it is our responsibility to make a 16


### great impact in the lives of our community. 17


### Together we can accomplish this goal with a 18


### forward moving agenda, without having individuals 19


### choose between providing income for their family 20


### and their family’s health. 21


### I appreciate your consideration and 22

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### action upon this matter. Now we must act as 1


### though our lives depend upon it because it does. 2



### Thank you and God bless. 3



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 4


### MR. WIRE: Gary Wire, that’s W

- i

- r

- e. 5



### I’m a retired materials scientist and I’ve lived 6


### in Pittsburgh since 1985. In 1973 I started at 7


### Westinghouse in Washington State doing research 8



### in the r adiation effects on materials for breeder 9


### reactor and fusion energy systems. Since 1985 I 10


### worked at Bettis Electric Power Laboratory in 11


### Pittsburgh doing research on radiation and 12


### corrosion effects on light water power plant 13



### materials. 14



### I fully support the EPA proposed standard 15


### and I want it to be implemented without weakening 16


### in any way. In fact, I believe it needs to use a 17


### higher price on carbon, and additional EPA 18


### regulations are needed for the potent greenhouse 19



### gas, methane. 20


### Climate change represent s a serious 21



### threat to the future health off all of our 22

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### grandchildren due to higher pollen concentrations 1


### and longer pollen seasons. Asthma and allergies 2


### are already a big problem for my granddaughters, 3


### Emma, Abigail and Mary. 4



### The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate 5


### Change reported in 2007 that scientists are more 6


### than 90 percent certain that most of global 7


### warming was being caused by increasing 8


### concentration of greenhouse gases produced by 9


### human activities, yet no major climate action has 10



### been enacted in t he U.S. since that time. 11


### The present gridlock in U.S. politics 12


### precludes congressional action and climate change 13


### even though a majority of the systems might favor 14



### such action. 15


### As a result, I joined the Citizen’s 16


### Climate Lobby this year. The goal of CCL is to 17


### create the political well needed for a stable 18



### climate. It advocates a market based in revenue 19



### neutral solution. The solution used is a 20


### transparent, simple and predictable steadily 21


### rising carbon fee with all the revenue returned 22

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### directly to American families. 1


### Over a 20 year period this would create 2


### two million jobs and add 1.38 trillion dollars to 3


### the GDP. I believe that such a plan is needed 4



### for the long run. 5



### But the EPA proposed standard on power 6


### plants can provide near term action. The EPA has 7


### authority granted by a bipartisan congress signed 8


### by a republican president and confirmed by a 9


### conservative supreme court. 10


### Four republican past chiefs of the EPA 11


### not only have maintained under oath that action 12


### on climate change is needed, but that the EPA is 13


### well within its right to take such action. It 14


### can set standards to reduce carbon pollution from 15


### power plants. This action will send a strong 16


### signal that climate change denial is no longer 17


### viable in this country and engage the states in 18



### programs of their own choosing to reduce carbon 19



### emission. 20



### I’d like to call on the EPA to include a 21


### recommendation to the states of a preferred path 22

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### to meet these standards, a path to impose a 1


### revenue neutral carbon tax, using a fee in 2


### dividend approach as advocated by the Citizen’s 3


### Climate Lobby. 4


### In conclusion, it’s my hope that the EPA 5



### Act should lead to the end of a present 6


### congressional gridlock and unleash the vast 7


### technological resources that we have in this 8


### country to limit carbon pollution. Thank you. 9



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Questions? 10



### Thank you, very much. 11


### Our next two speakers will be Robert 12



### Howard and Frank Szollosi. Mr. Howard, when 13



### you’re ready. 14



### MR. HOWARD: Thank you. I’m Robert 15



### Howard, H

- o

- w

- a

- r

- d, Marshall Township, Allegheny 16



### County, Pennsylv ania. 17


### Thank you for providing this time for 18


### public comment. I am not an owner, employee, 19


### vendor, consultant, lobbyist, or investor in the 20


### coal, gas and oil industry. I’m not even paid by 21



### a non

- profit to speak to you. I am not even here 22

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### representing a wind farm or alternative energy. 1


### I’m a citizen who will be impacted by your 2


### decisions and that is why I’m speaking to you 3


### this morning. 4


### Your decisions will affect how much I pay 5


### to heat my home. Your decisions will affect how 6


### much I pay for electricity , and your decisions 7


### will impact the cost of everything I buy. Even 8


### more basic, your decisions will impact economic 9


### growth, and therefore, our pensions, taxes and 10


### standard of living. 11


### These regulations will have an even 12


### greater impact upon the poor and th ose attempting 13


### to join America’s workforce. It would be one 14


### thing if these regulations resulted in 15


### substantial improvements, in death rates and 16



### human health advancement and substantial 17


### improvements in the environment, but that is not 18



### the case. 19



### As a citiz en I am asking for pragmatic 20


### energy regulations that balance our nation’s 21


### economic needs, energy security and environmental 22

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### quality objectives. Your emissions plan would 1


### largely dictate to the states the type of 2


### electricity generation they could build and 3


### operate. In addition, you seek to essentially 4


### ban coal from the U.S. energy mix. 5


### Your pursuit of this objective will 6


### heavily impact not only our region but the entire 7


### U.S. economy. Because of these regulations, 8



### hundreds of thousands of Americans will lose 9


### their jobs. Because of these regulations, our 10


### electric rates will go higher, as will the cost 11


### of everything we purchase. 12


### Because of these regulations we will have 13


### a drop in our GDP, and because of these 14


### regulations, that once reliable source of ener gy 15


### will be gone. 16



### This makes no sense when we are not

-- 17


### when we will not be experiencing a corresponding 18


### significant improvement in our environment. 19


### According to the governors of many of the 20


### states affected, the energy industry is a major 21


### source of job creation and America was able to 22

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### reach almost 90 percent of its energy needs last 1


### year. Why are we continuing to call for closing 2


### coal plants and mandating the billing of 3


### unsustainable renewable energy operations? How 4


### did one size fits all regulations i mpact the area 5


### of energy that uses something called refuse coal? 6



### Refuse coal is coal that was mined 7


### decades ago for the steel industry, and it was 8


### determined not to be of sufficient quality for 9


### use in the industry, so it was left. It was left 10



### on the hil lsides of Pennsylvania and throughout 11


### Appalachia. 12


### Technological advancements have allowed 13


### certain power plants to turn piles of low quality 14


### coal left throughout the countryside into cheap 15


### domestic energy. This is allowed for cleaning 16



### the environment an d restoring landscapes and 17



### rivers. 18


### Plants across Pennsylvania and states 19


### including Illinois, Montana, Utah and West 20


### Virginia are doing tremendous work to clean the 21


### environment and generate affordable electricity. 22

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### Unfortunately, one size fits all rules 1



### wi ll threaten to shut down these plants that use 2


### waste coal, and halt the progress being made to 3



### clean these sites. We need common sense 4


### regulations and exceptions that recognize the 5


### important energy and environmental benefits that 6


### these power plants will p rovide. 7


### Developing our nation’s plentiful natural 8


### resource and being good stewards of the 9


### environment need not be neutrally exclusive. A 10


### booming economy provides the innovation and the 11


### money to improve the environment. When America 12


### is booming, people ge t back to work. Every 13


### person returning to work is a person paying 14


### social security tax, Medicare tax. Income tax 15


### payments allow us to pay for critical social 16


### services. So you will be impacting each one of 17


### these by your decision. 18


### A booming economy depend s upon reliable 19


### supplies of reasonably priced energy. Coal 20


### should be part of that mix. 21


### Now is not the time to destroy jobs and 22

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### reduce our nation’s GDP for a questionable 1


### benefit. Thank you. 2


### MR. SZOLLOSI: Thank you. My name is 3



### Frank Szollosi. I’m here on behalf of four 4


### million hunters, anglers, wildlife enthusiasts. 5


### I represent National Wildlife Federation. I live 6



### in Toledo, Ohio. 7


### Unofficially, I’m here as a parent of 8



### Alesandra and Isabel, because this standard is 9


### going to impact them and their generation and 10


### future generations far more than it will impact 11


### those of us in the room today. 12



### The Great Lake states emit more carbon 13


### pollution than any other region in this country. 14


### We have a moral imperative to address that. 15


### Carbon pollution in Ohio is making harmful algae 16



### blooms in western Lake Erie far, far worse. 17


### Every year outdoor recreation generates 18


### 17.4 billion dollars in consumer spending and 19


### supports 196,000 jobs just in Ohio. As you 20


### factor in the cost benefit analysis of carbon 21


### pollution, fa ctor in a friend of mine who is a 22

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### charter boat captain out of Port Clinton, who is 1


### losing business because of these algae blooms, 2


### because the water is getting warmer and the 3


### increasing rainfall is pushing more nutrients out 4



### into the lake. He’s lost busine ss. The marinas 5


### are suffering, and those of us who like to take 6


### our kids fishing are finding that it’s much, much 7



### more difficult. 8


### Fifty

- three percent of Ohio residents 9


### participate in outdoor recreation every year. We 10


### want to preserve that for their gene ration and 11


### future generations. 12


### The National Wildlife Federation speaks 13



### out for wildlife in our children’ s future, 14


### because in many cases they can’t. Your proposed 15



### targets can and should be strengthened. The 16


### pollution reductions could be greater at a 17



### reas onable cost. 18


### Our initial analysis indicates emissions 19


### can be reduced beyond those projected by the EPA, 20


### and the goal of this plan should be to reduce 21


### emissions 35 to 40 percent below 2005 emissions 22

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### by 2020. 1


### Primarily, the formula used by EPA to 2



### establi sh the emissions target and standard of 3


### each state needs to be adjusted to reflect the 4


### fact that additional available cleaning and 5


### renewable generation and energy efficiency 6


### resources would replace generation from the 7



### dirtiest fossil fuel sources and at a faster 8


### pace, yielding greater emissions than the EPA 9



### assumed. 10


### Clean renewable energy has been growing 11


### at an astonishing rate. In 2012 wind energy and 12


### solar were two of the fastest growing electric 13


### generation technologies in the United States. 14



### And the fa ct of the matter is, you can put up 15


### more reliable wind farms than you can a new coal 16



### plant, and much cleaner, much cleaner. 17



### Since 2009 the Obama Administration have 18


### supported 339 renewable energy projects in Ohio, 19


### generating enough power to support 100,00 0 homes. 20



### In 2013 the USDA awarded small, rural and 21


### agricultural businesses in Ohio over 1.1 million 22

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### dollars in grants for efficiency and increased 1


### renewable energy use. Ohio appreciates the 2


### flexibility that you’ve given it to meet your 3



### targets. In spea king to elected officials back 4


### in Ohio, I hope they take you up on your 5


### flexibility. 6


### In a previous life, I was elected twice 7


### to serve on Toledo City Counsel, and I can tell 8


### you that climate change and climate impacts are 9


### increasing the burden on municip alities in 10



### counties in Ohio. 11


### Take their cost and the cost to taxpayers 12


### into consideration in your cost benefit analysis, 13


### and mention the harmful algae blooms. The City 14


### of Toledo has to spend an additional one million 15


### dollars a year to deal with the tox ins that are 16


### coming in from the water intake out in Maumee 17



### Bay. That’s money that could be used to put 18


### police on the street, or support our fire and 19


### rescue services. Instead, it’s dealing with the 20


### externalities caused by burning coal. 21


### One more point of personal privilege, and 22

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### I appreciate your indulgence with a couple of big 1



### ones here today. My great

- grandfather was born 2


### in Belmont County in Ohio. His mom and dad came 3



### over to work coal mines down there. And so we’re 4


### not blind to the impact that the tr ansition could 5



### have on individuals, families and communities 6



### dependent upon coal. 7


### And I think that just personally, one of 8


### the shortcomings of your plan is, there’s no 9



### transition assistance indicated. Coal families I 10


### see are in a similar position as the tobacco 11


### farmers when they faced regulation 10, 15 years 12



### ago. 13


### They were given by taxpayers, a 14


### transition assistance program, and I would 15



### encourage the EPA, the Department of Labor, 16


### Department of Commerce in particular, to put that 17



### on the table. The fact o f the matter is, those 18



### folks deserve the transition assistance as a 19


### result of the impacts that, not just the EPA, but 20


### companies and individuals are making towards a 21



### clean energy future, a future that, you know, I 22

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### want my kids to have and I know that you wa nt 1


### your kids to have. Thank you very much. 2



### MR. WAYLAND: Would you please spell your 3



### last name for the court reporter? 4



### MR. SZOLLOSI: Szollosi, S

- z

- o

- l

- l

- o

- s

- i. 5



### MR. WAYLAND: Okay, our next two speakers 6



### will be Cricket Hunter and Chris Howitz. 7



### MS. HUN TER: Good morning, my name is 8


### Cricket Hunter and I’m here speaking today as the 9


### Executive Director of Pennsylvania Interfaith 10


### Power and Light, a registered 501(c)(3). 11


### Pennsylvania Interfaith Power and Light 12


### is made up of individuals and communities of 13



### fa ith responding to climate change and active 14


### faithful hope. We are drawn to this work by the 15


### scripture and the wisdom of our traditions. 16



### We turn to different sources for the 17



### words, but they carry a shared call to care for 18



### creation, for the world and all who dwell in it, 19


### and to particular care for the most vulnerable 20



### people. 21


### Climate change magnifies ills that faith 22

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### communities that long responded to, food and 1


### security, water and security, disease, conflict 2


### and many natural disasters, and we are stepping 3


### up again. We know that the EPA’s charge is to 4


### protect the health and welfare of Americans. We 5



### also know that the health and welfare of other 6


### beings and other peoples is at risk. We act for 7



### them as well. 8


### People of faith are increasingly doing 9



### what we ca n to limit emissions. As much as we 10


### may take on, and as meaningful and important as 11


### it is to do the work as part of our faithful 12


### walk, it takes a long time to fill a bucket with 13



### drops of water, and we no longer have that 14



### luxury. 15


### Cutting emissions 30 perc ent from 2005 16


### levels is a broad goal, bold enough to begin our 17


### necessary turn away from combustion towards 18


### sustainable and renewable sources of energy, 19


### allowing states to develop singular paths to the 20


### shared goal allows each to showcase its 21


### particular stre ngths, and to shift as we develop 22

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### new ways of using the resources we are freely and 1


### forever given, the wind, the sun and the tides. 2


### Today we know you will hear some comments 3


### that are rooted in fear instead of in hope. You 4



### will hear that the Clean Power P lan will lay off 5


### workers and that communities are hurting. That 6


### is partly right. Communities are hurting. Mine 7


### tailings, coal dust, coal emissions and coal ash 8


### are hurting communities, poor communities right 9


### now, increasing lung disease, heart disease a nd 10


### cancer. The result in climate change will hurt 11


### us all, but the poorest fair the worst. We 12


### cannot knowingly continue to stand on their 13



### backs. 14


### Coal representatives will tell you that 15


### acting responsibly on carbon pollution will steal 16


### jobs from communiti es on the economic edge. They 17


### won’t say that those jobs have never driven 18


### executive decision making. They won’t mention 19


### that those jobs are already in a decades long 20



### decline, or that the decline is about bottom 21


### lines, not about federal policy. 22

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### Combined coal output from West Virginia 1


### and Kentucky has held nearly steady since 1983. 2


### But mining jobs have dropped by half. 3



### We do need to help generate new paths for 4


### employees and communities that currently depend 5


### upon fossil fuels, holding tight to the 6



### dimini shing fuels that the 18th and 19th 7


### centuries instead of reaching forward to the 8


### power of the 21st is not the way to do it. 9



### Like our faith communities, the United 10


### States is explicitly founded on values. As such, 11


### we have a unique opportunity to lead accord ing to 12



### those values. When we don’t, as we have not on 13


### climate change, our silence is deafening. 14



### When these proposed standards were 15



### announced in June, the World took note. China 16


### immediately began hinting at an absolute cap on 17



### its own carbon emissions, an d has since created 18


### eight pilot carbon trading markets. 19


### Christians talk about acting as a city on 20


### a hill. When we act as we should, using the 21


### gifts we’ve been given, the example shines and 22

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### draws others in. PAIPL applauds these proposed 1



### standards for the ir leadership as well as for 2



### their direct effect. 3


### PAIPL urges the EPA to implement the 4


### carbon pollutions standards as quickly as 5


### possible, and we urge states, Pennsylvania, to 6


### begin creating meaningful state implementation 7


### plans without delay. In order t hat these two 8


### steps forward are not undercut by a giant step 9


### back, we also urge the EPA to act quickly to 10


### release meaningful standards for methane, 11


### particularly extract of methane. 12


### Faith communities are already switching 13



### off our harmful standard mix elect ricity. We 14


### look forward to a meaningful, national and 15



### international movement from all of the above to 16


### power from above. Thank you for your time. 17


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Questions? 18



### Thank you. 19



### MR. HOWITZ: I’m Chris Howitz, 20



### H

- o

- w

- i

- t

- z. I’m a resi dent of Pittsburgh and 21


### CEO of Electrogrid, which is a manufacturer of 22

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### components for the semi

- conductor industry here 1


### in Pittsburgh. 2



### I am enthusiastic about climate 3


### protection and energy saving. For example, my 4


### business has a green building with co

- gener ation, 5


### skylights, adaptive lighting and adaptive clean 6


### room driving in the fans. 7



### All of this comes at a cost, which has 8


### the potential to make us less competitive from 9


### other firms which do not do those energy saving 10


### regimes. 11



### For more than 25 years I’ve be en 12


### disappointed by Pittsburgh’s deadly power station 13


### fine particle and mercury pollution. I couldn’t 14


### believe just how many decades it took for the EPA 15


### to force our power stations to comply with its 16


### new source regulations. I am now grateful for 17



### the EPA’s new source actions which will help 18


### Pittsburgh to maintain its goal of being a most 19


### beautiful city. 20



### I can understand the desire of the owners 21


### of coal mines to ignore safety regulations and to 22

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### promote continued coal use. Similarly, I can 1



### understand the pre ference of utilities viewing 2


### themselves as private businesses to continue 3


### polluting. 4



### However, the societal cost of the lost 5


### lives of coal miners and of pollution in all of 6


### our lives is far greater than such short term 7


### private savings. 8



### In addition, ut ilities are in the 9


### protected position with regulated and relatively 10


### predictable income streams unlike regular private 11


### industry. And our decisions should prioritize 12


### public interest rather than mere profits. 13


### If we delay modern emission standards, we 14



### would continue relying on outdated generating 15


### sources. Why should this country of all 16


### countries have old and rusty systems rather than 17



### the very best. 18


### By moving to wind and solar generation, 19


### we will gain more and better jobs, lower costs 20



### and lessen climate chan ge. For example, the peak 21


### output of the two gigawatt city power station 22

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### just outside Pittsburgh could come from solar 1


### panel arrays instead of coal for only double the 2


### seven hundred million dollar cost of its proposed 3



### effluent dry scrubber. 4


### Alternatively, with current wind 5


### technology the entire U.S.A. could be powered by 6


### an area just six times larger than the central 7


### city of Pittsburgh as proof that strict power 8



### station emission standards work in the U.S.A. 9


### Over the past six years the regional greenhouse 10


### gas initiative of ten northeast states has 11


### obtained lower energy costs and faster economic 12


### growth than the surrounding states. Thus, taking 13


### care of our climate can also make our economy 14



### better off. 15


### I applaud the new EPA carbon initiatives 16



### and strongly ur ge the EPA not to yield to 17


### polluting interests. Yielding would not only be 18


### betraying its duty to protect the public, it 19


### would also be betraying investors in modern 20



### energy systems such as my company, who would be 21


### forced to bear all of the costs singly, due to 22

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### fossil fuel subsidies, this would give a 1


### competitive advantage to more polluting firms. 2


### This cannot be in the public interest. A 3


### level and fair playing field, which protects our 4


### population and our climate, will help us all to 5


### claim a bright and susta inable future. Thank 6



### you. 7



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Thank you very 8



### much. 9


### Okay, at this time our next two speakers 10



### would be Ed Perry and Dan Alters. 11


### MR. PERRY: My name is Edward Perry, P, 12



### as in Peter, e

- r

- r

- y. I’m an aquatic biologist 13


### working with th e National Wildlife Federation in 14


### their global warming campaign. 15


### For many, global warming is something 16


### that’s supposed to be happening years into the 17


### future. As a lifelong fisherman and hunter, I, 18


### and many of us who enjoy the outdoors can tell 19



### you that g lobal warming is here now, and it’s 20


### already affecting our fish and wildlife heritage. 21


### According to the best science our state 22

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### fish, the brook trout, our state tree, the 1


### hemlock, and our state bird, the rough grouse, 2


### are on their way out of Pennsylvania. Instead of 3


### getting late winter, early spring snowfalls like 4


### we used to get, we’re now getting torrential 5


### downpours that drench grouse fledglings, causing 6


### significant mortality. 7


### In the past thirty years, Pennsylvania 8



### has lost over 28,000 billion snails whi ch has 9


### greatly affected grouse populations. Warmer 10


### winters are allowing the invasive pest, Woolly 11


### Adelgid populations to proliferate and they are 12


### decimating hemlocks all across the northern part 13



### of our country. 14


### Hemlocks provide an important cover for 15



### b rook trout during the heat of the summer. So if 16


### the Hemlocks go, so go our state fish. We’ve 17


### already lost over 35 percent of Pennsylvania’s 18



### brook trout habitat, and the forecast is for it 19



### to be gone from the state by the year 2100. 20



### So already, global warming is already 21


### affecting wildlife, not only in Pennsylvania, but 22

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### all across or country, and these are just a few 1


### examples that I’ve mentioned. 2


### But let’s look at what’s happening all 3


### around the world right now. And these are not 4


### projections. This is what’s actually happening 5


### right now. We’ve had 350 consecutive months 6



### where the global average temperature has been 7



### above the long term average, and ten of the 8


### hottest years on record have all occurred in the 9


### last fifteen years. 10



### If you are less than 30 y ears old, you 11



### have never had a month or a year where the 12



### temperature was less than the long term global 13



### average. 14


### Glaciers around the world are melting. 15


### The Antarctic ice sheets are breaking up at 16


### unprecedented rates, and the Antarctic sea ice is 17



### at it’s all time lowest level in history. Sea 18


### level is rising, causing islands in the Pacific 19



### to go under water. 20



### Parts of our southwest are now in the 21


### midst of a 14 year long drought, which many 22

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### scientists think is now the new normal, and it 1


### has spawned raging w ildfires. 2


### There have been only three times in the 3


### past 50 years when more than nine million acres 4


### have burned and they’ve all been in the last six 5



### years. 6


### And finally, our weather has become far 7


### more extreme, devastating our communities and 8


### causing our government to spend billions in 9


### disaster relief. All of these impacts are being 10


### driven by our dependence on fossil fuels, and we 11


### simply cannot let that continue. These trends 12


### should be our canary in the coal mine that we 13


### ignore at our peril. 14



### We have a m oral imperative to tackle 15


### climate change and not pass this on to our kids 16


### and grandkids. That’s why I strongly support 17


### your rule to reign in carbon pollution from 18


### existing power plants. But given the speed of 19


### the changes and the gravity of the situation, I 20



### hope you’re not too late. Thank you. 21



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 22

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### MR. ALTERS: My name is Dan Alters, I’m 1


### the Conservation Chair for the Lycoming Audubon 2


### Society. Let me give you a little bit of 3



### background from me. 4


### I have a bachelor’s degree in sc ience 5


### from Wilkes University and a master’s degree in 6


### environmental pollution control from Penn State, 7


### and I worked for 35 years for Pennsylvania’s 8


### Department of Environmental Protection in the 9


### water management area, retiring as the water 10



### manager there sev en years ago. 11



### I live in rural north central 12


### Pennsylvania, where I regularly hike, hunt, fish, 13


### canoe, bike and birdwatch. I am very concerned 14


### that these activities which I enjoy so much may 15


### one day be severely limited due to climate 16



### change, and I thank EP A today for the opportunity 17


### to comment on its proposed carbon rule. 18


### Audubon and its network of 460 Chapters 19


### is committed to conserving and restoring natural 20


### ecosystems, focusing on birds and other wildlife 21


### and their habitats for the benefit of humanity 22

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### an d earth’s biological diversity. 1



### I want to express our strong support for 2


### EPA’s critical efforts to put limits on carbon 3


### pollution

-- I’m sorry, carbon dioxide, and other 4


### pollutants from existing power plants. EPA’s 5


### proposed carbon reduction targets are a strong 6


### start toward reducing emissions. 7


### We believe these pollution reductions can 8



### be achieved at a reasonable cost, a cost to our 9


### nation and the world society that we believe is 10


### far less than the cost would be if global warming 11



### remains unchecked. We bel ieve strongly that 12



### worldwide climate change will cause increased 13


### floods and drought, rising sea levels, food 14


### shortages and famine. These are things that all 15


### sound ridiculously terrifying, but these, in 16


### turn, will create huge refugee issues for less 17



### affect ed countries, and likely new wars and other 18



### human strife. 19


### One only needs to review the climate 20


### change contingency planning of our own Department 21


### of Defense for a list of these possibilities. We 22

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### therefore believe more needs to be done. The 1



### proposed goal was too conservative, and the plan 2


### allows far too much time for compliance. 3


### State plans, and especially in 4


### Pennsylvania, should include automatic provisions 5


### to correct any shortfall in emission targets that 6


### may occur, and severe penalties for failing to 7


### meet goals. A federal review of state programs 8


### should occur at least every five years. 9


### Finally, it makes no sense at all to 10


### control carbon emissions in this country while we 11


### export millions of tons of coal overseas. We 12



### need to limit coal sales to tho se countries that 13



### have acceptable plans to control carbon 14



### emissions. Not that EPA can do much about that 15



### though. 16


### Finally, Lycoming Audubon is greatly 17


### concerned about the impacts of climate change on 18


### avian species. Birds have long served as key 19



### indicator species of ecosystem hell. America’s 20


### 46 million birdwatchers spend roughly 32 billion 21


### dollars every year, generating 85 billion dollars 22

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### in overall economic output, and 13 billion 1



### dollars in tax revenues. 2


### Birdwatching, hunting and other outdoor 3



### activit ies enjoyed by more than 80 million 4


### Americans support over 2.6 million jobs. These 5


### jobs are at risk if EPA does not effectively 6



### control carbon emissions. 7


### Finally, Lycoming Audubon commends the 8


### EPA for its leadership in this critical issue. 9



### We fully supp ort the proposed role and would urge 10


### EPA to make it even stronger. Thank you for 11


### considering these comments. 12



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Okay, our next 13


### two speakers this morning will be Paul Sherlock 14



### and Julie Franks. 15


### MR. SHERLOCK: Good morning. I’m Pau l 16


### Sherlock from Cleveland, Ohio. Thank you for 17


### letting me speak today. 18


### MR. WAYLAND: Sure. Thanks for coming. 19



### MR. SHERLOCK: Thank you. We have the 20


### opportunity to do something historic, to agree 21



### with the

-- 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Paul, hold on a second, 1



### let’s see if we can get the noise taken up. 2



### Okay, sorry about that, but I want to 3



### make sure everybody can hear your remarks. 4



### MR. SHERLOCK: Thank you. 5


### We have the opportunity to do something 6


### historic, to agree with the scientists who 7


### overwhelmingly say th at climate change is real 8


### and to finally begin applying the brakes on a 9


### more is better mind set, to say that we will take 10


### the first small steps in changing our trajectory 11


### and begin to set our eyes on a more sustainable 12



### future. 13



### We subsidized the coal indus try, and in 14


### doing so, help provide them with profits in order 15


### to protect jobs. It’s time we started providing 16


### the same type of assistance to renewable energy. 17


### To not only level the competitive playing field, 18


### but to foster a new industry that will create 19


### jobs. 20


### We are already falling behind in this new 21


### technology. America has long been the country of 22

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### innovation, yet here we are with powerful 1


### interests, digging their heals in at any kind of 2



### change. 3


### Let’s move beyond corporate interests 4


### seeking to prote ct the fettered calf, buying up 5


### politicians who mouth their words, and embrace 6


### change that is occurring for what will happen 7


### with or without us. And if it happens without 8



### us, then all we will be able to do is follow. 9


### That we are even debating establishin g 10


### energy standards, calling for an increase in 11


### renewable energy sources, when we have just 12


### learned about methane columns starting to bubble 13


### up from the ocean floor, a condition scientists 14


### have said is an indication we are passing the 15


### point of no return, an d harnessing irreversible 16


### climate change is morally wrong to ourselves, to 17


### our fellow Americans and neighbors throughout the 18



### world, to our children and our future 19


### generations. 20


### Even that climate change is not 21


### universally accepted outside of the scientific 22

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### realm, can we in good conscience look at our kids 1


### and grandkids and say that the decisions we make 2


### now are intended to benefit them in 30 years? Or 3


### is the position the coal industry is fighting for 4


### more of an indication of short term gain, and a 5



### further i ndication that our politicians will 6



### support them. 7


### We, as a nation, identify ourselves as 8


### Christian, with 77 percent saying they are 9


### believers. For us to continue to rape and 10


### plunder the tremendous gift that God has provided 11


### us is reprehensible. It’s sim ple. If we 12


### disparage the gift, then we disparage God. 13



### We cannot be reverend in church and then 14


### go out and exploit the earth and think that we 15


### are morally right. God has asked us to be 16


### stewards of his gift, not to do with it as we 17



### will. 18



### Let us take the first minor steps in 19


### healing our relationship with God by beginning to 20



### heal the planet and turn our back on coal. 21


### Please implement the proposal to increase 22

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### renewable energy standards. Thank you very much. 1



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 2



### MS. FRANKS: Good mor ning. My name is 3



### Julie Franks, F

- r

- a

- n

- k

- s, and I am here today to 4


### urge the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to 5


### move ahead with its proposed Clean Power Plan. 6


### Setting limits on carbon pollution from existing 7


### power plants will benefit millions of Ame ricans, 8


### especially highly vulnerable groups such as 9


### children, the elderly and those with asthma. 10


### I’m speaking today on behalf of my 11


### family, including my two sons who both have 12


### asthma and are here with me today because I know 13


### firsthand how poor air quality can affect daily 14


### life for so many. We live in nearby Butler 15


### County and thank EPA for holding this hearing in 16


### western Pennsylvania where air quality issues 17


### have been challenging for many years. 18


### It’s almost August, which means we are 19



### well into summer brea k from school. For most 20


### kids this is the best time of year. But for my 21


### kids, summer is particularly difficult. Just as 22

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### the weather warms up and they most want to be 1


### outside, air pollution can make it unsafe. In 2


### fact, my son who suffers the most with as thma 3


### needed to spend almost all of 2012 indoors. 4



### That’s the little one. 5


### By last summer his doctor was able to 6



### find a blend of four to five different 7


### medications he could take to allow him to play 8


### outside. But the mix of drugs produced unwanted 9



### side effe cts. We took him off the medications 10


### and he has sense returned to looking outside 11


### watching his friends play without him when air 12


### quality is dangerous. 13


### It’s truly heartbreaking to watch your 14


### child go through this every year and to have to 15



### be the one to le t them down with the news that 16



### they can’t play outdoors. 17


### But on poor air quality days when my 18


### family has to breath fine particles and ozone 19



### smog, the boys’ asthma gets worse and outdoor 20


### activities are not an option. They cough, wheeze 21



### and even have asthm a attacks if they breath the 22

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### unsafe air. 1


### These asthma attacks can be incredibly 2


### scary, as any parent with an asthmatic child 3


### knows. And my family lives in constant state of 4


### alert. We do all we can to manage their 5


### condition, but the quality of air they b reathe is 6


### out of our hands. As you might imagine, I am 7


### eager for action that would improve our air 8


### quality and the quality of life for my kids and 9



### so many others. 10


### Kids are more vulnerable to the impacts 11


### of air pollution than adults, and it’s our 12



### respon sibility to protect them. 13


### I want my kids to be able to breathe 14


### freely, and run and play outside as children 15


### should. And the proposed Clean Power Plan will 16



### ensure that healthy future. I’m thankful that we 17


### have the protections like the Clean Air Act in 18



### p lace, but there is still a good deal of work to 19



### do. 20



### I want EPA and Congress to know that 21


### clean air safeguards, like reducing carbon 22

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### emissions from the power plants, make a 1


### difference in the lives of millions of people 2


### around the country like me and my fa mily. I hope 3


### that all parents will speak up and deliver this 4


### message that we want clean air for our kids. 5


### Thank you for the opportunity to speak 6


### and support the proposed carbon pollution plan 7



### today. As someone who cares deeply about both my 8



### children a nd the air quality of our air, I urge 9


### you to move forward with these lifesaving 10



### standards. Thank you very much. 11



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Our next two 12


### speakers will be Kevin Stewart and Shannon Fisk. 13


### MR. STEWART: Good morning. I thank the 14



### panel for yo ur work here today. I have provided 15


### you a more detailed written version of my 16


### testimony. 17



### I am Kevin Stewart, S

- t

- e

- w

- a

- r

- t, and I 18



### serve as Director of Environmental Health with 19


### the American Lung Association of the Mid

20



### Atlantic. 21



### I represent not only t he three million 22

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### people in our four state service area who suffer 1


### from chronic lung disease, but also the tens of 2



### millions more who desire to breathe clean air and 3


### still protect their good health. 4



### There are standards, and properly so for 5



### air toxics, acid gasses, heavy metals, smog 6


### forming and soot forming emissions from power 7


### plants, and there is no excuse for there not to 8


### be strong standards for carbon pollution as well. 9


### Anything less short changes our health and our 10



### children’s health. 11



### We are here tod ay to remind everyone of 12


### why we need strong controls on carbon pollution 13


### and on air pollution in general. Reducing carbon 14


### pollution will help protect public health. 15


### Carbon pollution results in higher 16


### temperatures that enhance the conditions for 17



### ozone fo rmation and for lengthening the ozone 18


### season. As the lung associations stated, the air 19


### report recently demonstrated by showing an 20


### increase in days of unhealthful ozone at nearly 21


### every monitor in our service area. We cannot 22

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### rest assured that ozone levels will always 1



### continue to diminish. 2


### We also recognize other consequences, 3


### higher temperatures and CO2 resulting in 4


### increased emissions of pollutants and their 5



### precursors. Increased pollen and mold spore 6


### production exacerbating asthma and allergies, 7



### increas ing risk of wildfires and their pollution, 8


### increasing vector borne diseases, increasing 9


### potential for severe weather events and resulting 10



### health problems. 11



### By 2030 under the Clean Power Plan, not 12


### only do the climate benefits alone from CO2 13



### reductions amoun t to about 30 billion dollars 14


### annually, but the corresponding health 15



### co

- benefits are valuated at up to twice as much 16


### as the climate benefit portion. And those annual 17


### total benefits accrue to a range between six and 18



### twelve times the accompanying and compli ance 19



### costs. 20


### Moreover, according to Syracuse and 21


### Harvard University’s co

- benefits report, model 22

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### results consistently show air quality 1


### improvements in western Pennsylvania projected to 2


### occur under this rule to be among the largest in 3



### the country. 4



### While t he American Lung Association 5


### supports the Clean Power Plan, we find that 6


### certain improvements in its target formulas would 7


### strengthen it. EPA should drive energy 8


### efficiency and renewable energy generation to 9


### displace the generation from the dubious fossil 10



### fuels and therefore, targets should be set 11


### higher. 12


### Many emissions reduction measures are 13


### already occurring in the states, so the formulas 14



### need to account for that. For example, states 15


### are already using higher energy efficiency 16



### measures. Utilities have already planned 17


### replacements of old high emitting power plants 18


### with lower emitting resources. New natural gas 19



### plants are already planned. 20


### Excluding biomass combustion base the 21


### inclusion of a wide variety of clean renewable 22

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### generation in the formulas on r esource 1


### availability rather than limited to currently 2


### mandated levels and include opportunities for 3


### transmission and distribution efficiency 4


### improvements. 5



### The bottom line is this. EPA must make 6


### certain that its standards do not simply tally 7



### reductions th at would have been achieved even had 8


### the Clean Power Plan not been in place. I must 9



### stress we are in the midst of a slow motion 10


### crisis of global proportions. It is to be sure 11


### irregular and intermittent in its progression. 12



### As a result, many are apt to deceive 13


### themselves and others about the necessity for 14



### serious action. But the crisis is real, and on 15



### the scale of decades, it is inexorable. 16


### So the objective here must not be one of 17


### doing the minimum necessary to meet some 18


### arithmetic goal, but rather one of finding ways 19


### to do as much as possible to reduce the severity 20


### of the impacts already on their way. 21


### People at special risk of sickness or 22

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### even death from air pollution include infants, 1


### children, the elderly, persons with asthma or 2



### COPD, those who are i mmune compromised and people 3


### in indigent and minority communities. 4


### In our service territory, these 5


### populations are constituted of groups containing 6


### even millions of individuals. Far from being the 7


### small minority of particularly sensitive persons, 8



### persons falling into one or more of these high 9


### risk groups together compose more than half the 10


### population. 11


### And even more important to remember, as 12


### you heard a few minutes ago from Mrs. Franks, 13



### these are not faceless numbers. Every one of 14



### these millions is a rea l person, not a nameless 15


### statistic. Every one of these people is a human 16


### being worthy of our protection. 17


### MR. FISK: Good morning. My name is 18



### Shannon Fisk and I’m the Director of the Coal 19


### Program at Earthjustice. Earthjustice is a 20



### non

- profit environment al law firm that uses the 21


### power of the law to protect public health and the 22

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### environment, to advance clean energy, and to 1


### combat climate change. We will be submitting 2


### written comments by the deadline but wanted to 3


### share some initial thoughts today. 4


### Earthj ustice applauds EPA from moving 5


### forward with the proposed Clean Power Plan. As 6



### we learn more each day about the threat and pace 7


### of climate change, the need for rapid and 8


### significant reductions in U.S. carbon pollution 9


### becomes more imperative. 10



### The Clean Power Plan is an important step 11


### towards achieving such reductions and we strongly 12


### support EPA in regulating carbon pollution. 13


### Given the urgency of the climate threat 14



### we face, however, we urge EPA to set the stronger 15



### standards that we know states can achie ve. That 16


### requires setting more protective goals, ensuring 17


### that the baselines don’t effectively credit 18


### states with carbon reduction that is going to 19


### occur anyways, and setting forth clear and 20


### practical enforceability provisions. 21


### Before briefly detailing t hese points, I 22

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### want to thank you for holding this hearing here 1


### in Pittsburgh. For decades, Southwest 2


### Pennsylvania has borne the brunt of the severe 3


### public health and environmental impacts caused by 4


### the mining and burning of the most carbon 5


### intensive energ y source, which is coal. 6


### As such, it is only appropriate that EPA 7


### take public feedback in this community. There 8


### is, understandably, anxiety in this region about 9


### the economic impacts of the ongoing move away 10


### from dirty and aging coal infrastructure while 11


### the move to clean energy will spur job creation 12


### and economic growth throughout the U.S. 13


### Earthjustice would welcome a serious 14


### discussion, and ways to ensure a just transition 15


### for the workers and communities that currently 16


### rely on the coal industry for thei r livelihoods. 17


### Unfortunately, rather than engaging in 18


### such a serious discussion, opponents of the Clean 19


### Power Plan had been offering little more than 20


### climate denial and fear mongering about electric 21


### bills and reliability. The climate denial 22

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### represents no thing more than willfully putting 1


### ones head in the sand to ignore the overwhelming 2



### scientific evidence of the climate crisis we 3



### face. 4


### And the opponents fear mongering about 5


### electric bills and reliability has little basis 6


### in reality, and would hinder us fr om seizing the 7


### economic and public health opportunities that a 8


### move to clean energy would provide. 9



### The real concern about the Clean Power 10


### Plan is that it doesn’t do enough. Rather than 11


### spurring immediate and significant action that is 12



### achievable and need ed, the plan focuses too much, 13


### in our opinion, on endorsing advances that are 14


### already occurring. 15


### In an effort to address this shortcoming, 16


### we urge EPA to strengthen the proposal in at 17



### least three ways. 18


### First, EPA must have stronger and faster 19


### pollution reduction targets. The currently 20


### proposed targets give states fifteen years to 21


### achieve reductions in carbon pollution from 2005 22

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### levels that we are already halfway to achieving. 1



### Both the science and the President’s 2



### pledge to reduce overall U.S. carbon p ollution by 3


### 2020 requires far more from the Clean Power Plan. 4


### We urge that reductions of 35 to 40 percent from 5


### the energy sector below 2005 levels be required 6


### by 2020, and greater reductions by 2030. 7


### In addition, the proposed ten

- year 8


### averaging for compl iance needs to be broken down 9


### into more than one compliance schedule so short 10


### term gains are realized and the program stays on 11


### track to meet its goals. 12



### Second, EPA must reevaluate the baseline 13


### it uses to set the state pollution reduction 14



### goals. As such, baseline fails to account for 15


### progress that is already occurring, and thereby 16



### leads to results that underestimate what is 17


### readily achievable. 18



### For example, EPA proposal assumes nearly 19


### 49 gigawatts of coal plant retirements throughout 20



### the country by 2020, b ut nearly 68 gigawatts of 21


### coal plants have already retired or announced 22

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### their intent to do so. 1


### Here in Pennsylvania, the 2020 coal plan 2



### emissions baseline EPA uses includes 11 coal 3


### plants that have already retired or announced 4



### their intent to retire in th e next few years. 5



### If we remove those emissions from the 11 6


### plants from the 2012 baseline, that baseline is 7


### already below the level of carbon pollution EPA 8


### assumed Pennsylvania could achieve through the 9


### redispatching of coal plants. 10



### In other words, EPA’s carbon proposal 11


### would have little further direct impact on 12


### generation of electricity from the most carbon 13


### intensive form of power, which is coal. 14


### My third point today is that practical 15


### enforceability is critical through a successful 16



### Clean Power Plan. If someone is to work for more 17


### than a decade on enforcing our nation’s 18



### environmental laws, I know well that even the 19


### best environmental standards can become largely 20


### meaningless if the public and EPA are not able to 21


### monitor compliance and seek enforcement. 22

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### As such, we urge EPA to ensure that any 1


### final rule clearly establishes who is ultimately 2


### responsible for achieving carbon pollution 3


### reductions, ensures that the public has the right 4


### to seek enforcement of those requirements 5


### through, for example, citizen supe rvisions, and 6



### set forth clear self

- correction provisions and 7


### penalties for non

- compliance. 8


### In closing, we urge EPA to strengthen the 9


### Clean Power Plan and exponentially finalize it so 10


### that we can address the critical need to rapidly 11



### reduce our nation’s carbon pollution. 12


### Thank you again for holding this hearing 13


### and giving me the opportunity to comment. 14



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you both. 15



### MR. GARVIN: Thanks. 16



### MR. WAYLAND: Okay, our next two speakers 17


### this morning will be Jim Probst and Cathy Cohen 18



### Becker. 19


### MR. PROBST: My name is Jim Probst. I’m 20


### from West Virginia. I got up at three o’clock 21


### this morning to come to have the opportunity to 22

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### say something. I’m here as a father and as a 1


### grandfather. I would very much like for you to 2


### implement these regulatio ns that are being 3


### considered and hopefully that you will consider 4


### strengthening them. 5


### Climate change is already upon us. It’s 6


### irreversible. Greenhouse gases are building up 7


### in our atmosphere and will remain there for 8



### centuries. 9



### Many people argue that moving away from 10


### fossil fuels will harm our economy and impede 11


### growth. Actually, the cost of inaction is much 12


### greater than the cost of action. By 2050 48 to 13



### 68 billion dollars' worth of property will be 14



### below sea level in Florida and Louisiana. 15



### I wou ld urge you to not only implement 16


### these regulations, but hopefully it would 17



### consider a fee on carbon be instituted, on carbon 18


### emissions. The recent study prepared for the 19


### group, Citizen’s Climate Lobby by Regional 20


### Economic Models shows that the implementa tion of 21


### increasing fee on carbon emissions with a hundred 22

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### percent of the fees collected rebated to U.S. 1


### households would actually create 2.1 million jobs 2


### over the first ten years. It would save 13,000 3


### lives a year from reduced emissions and increase 4



### real disposal income. 5


### It is highly unlikely that as climate 6


### change continues damage will not increase in a 7


### straight line, but will increase in an upward 8


### sloping curve that will become catastrophically 9


### steep as a result of negative feedback loops. 10


### If nothing i s done soon the government 11



### will be forced to deal with these issues in a 12


### much greater magnitude later from property losses 13


### to public health crises to emergency aide. 14


### We face a choice now between protecting 15


### our economy by protecting our environment or 16



### allo wing environmental havoc to create economic 17



### havoc. Thank you. 18


### MS. BECKER: Hi. My name is Cathy Cowen 19



### Becker. I’m a communications coordinator and 20


### student living in Columbus, Ohio. 21


### The reason I’m testifying today is that 22

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### I’m very concerned about the future, not just of 1


### Ohio or the United States, but really of the 2


### entire global environment and every creature, 3


### including seven billion humans that live in it. 4


### For the past four years I’ve been taking 5


### classes in biology and environment and natural 6



### resource s at Ohio State University, and what I’ve 7


### learned is frightening. 8



### I’ve learned about the natural carbon 9


### cycle that has been operating on the planet since 10


### it began and how it’s been thrown out of balance 11


### since the Industrial Revolution by the burning of 12



### fossil fuels. 13


### Animals and plants evolved in symbiosis. 14



### We breath e in the oxygen they produce and they 15



### use the carbon dioxide we breathe out to make 16


### food through photosynthesis. 17



### However, our use of fossil fuels is 18


### adding more carbon to the atmosphere t han the 19


### plants can possibly absorb. And when you look at 20


### what we’re doing you can see why. Over billions 21


### of years plants and animals have died and 22

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### decomposed to create coal and oil fields. But 1


### just in the last 200 years humans have dug up 2



### much of this c arbon and put it back into the 3


### atmosphere by the burning of fossil fuels. So of 4


### course, we’re knocking the carbon cycle out of 5



### balance. 6



### I’ve also learned about the ice core 7


### research, much of it done by my university. By 8


### drilling into ice glaciers in pla ces like 9



### Antarctica, Greenland and Peru, scientists have 10



### been able to reconstruct what the atmosphere was 11


### like going back over 800,000 years. At no time 12


### did the amount of carbon get above 280 parts per 13



### million until the last few decades. 14



### It’s now over 4 00 parts per million, 15



### which is well above the threshold of 350 that 16



### NASA’s climate scientist, James Hansen, thinks is 17


### the maximum to support the environment in which 18



### human civilization evolved. 19


### Another thing I’ve learned about is what 20



### all this carbon in t he atmosphere is doing to the 21


### planet. About 90 percent of it has ended up in 22

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### the oceans leading to ocean acidification which 1


### destroys coral reefs and seashells. Considering 2



### that the base of the world’s food chain is 3


### comprised of tiny plankton with exoske letons made 4


### up of these shells, this puts all life at risk, 5


### including us. 6



### There have been five mass extinctions 7


### during the earth’s history, and many scientists 8


### believe we are entering a sixth. They have a 9


### name for this new era, the Anthropocene. If 10



### alie ns visited the earth millions of years from 11


### now they would be able to see our human footprint 12


### long after we’re gone due to the changed chemical 13


### and physical composition of the environment that 14



### we leave behind. 15


### What I’ve learned about carbon pollution 16



### and what it ' s doing to the entire earth system 17


### has motivated me to seek a change in careers. 18


### This fall I’m starting a master’s program in 19


### public policy so that I can spend the rest of my 20


### working life advocating for the environment. 21


### We simply must stop burnin g fossil fuels 22

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### or we will tip the entire global environment into 1


### a state not seen for millions of years, long 2



### before human civilization evolved. 3



### If we want a livable future for our 4



### children, we must act on climate now. Climate 5


### change is the greatest phys ical and ethical 6


### challenge of our time, and the EPA carbon 7


### pollution standards are a good first step to 8



### address them. 9



### I strongly support these standards and 10



### urge you to even strengthen them. 11



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Our next two 12


### speakers this morning wil l be Mark Klutho and 13



### Peggy Coyle. 14



### MR. KLUTHO: Mark Klutho, M

- a

- r

- k, 15



### K

- l

- u

- t

- h

- o. I was in D.C. yesterday, both the 16


### hearing rooms. It appears the chandeliers are 17


### all incandescent bulbs. Not going to be able to 18



### get there when the EPA headquarters can’t even 19


### get the light bulbs right. 20



### And what do I see here? Three bulbs in 21



### each fixture. Here is this neat book from the 22

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### NRC and I have this page marked. This fixture, I 1


### used it as a little quiz, had it before the 2


### Florida Public Service Commission. They c ouldn’t 3


### get it right. How many bulbs in the fixture? 4


### They didn’t know. 5


### There is only one bulb. This is what’s 6


### called an imaging specular reflector. Two of 7


### those are a reflection of one bulb. Now, you go 8


### throughout this building here, a federal 9



### buildi ng, and you count how many bulbs there are 10


### wasting energy. And this is open to 832. This 11


### is the Generic Environmental Impact Statement for 12


### License Renewal of Nuclear Plants, energy 13


### conservation, energy efficiency. 14


### Though often used interchangeably, en ergy 15


### conservation and energy efficiency are different 16


### concepts. Energy efficiency typically means 17


### deriving the similar level of service by using 18


### less energy, while energy conversation simply 19


### indicates a reduction in energy consumption. 20



### These words are us ed commonly as though 21


### they mean the same thing. 22

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### My point here is the vernacular, you 1


### can’t even get that right. Just as though a wind 2


### turbine with three blades isn’t really a turbine. 3


### Look at a damn or what flies an airplane. Those 4



### are turbines. You can’t get the terminology 5


### right. 6


### Now the problem is. you’re putting the 7


### cart before the horse, and Amory Lovins

-- you 8


### might have heard of him

-- when I went into D.C., 9


### the first building I saw was the Pentagon. He 10


### helped do the retrofit of the building to make it 11


### more energy efficient, likewise, the White House. 12


### And he said we’re not looking to see how 13


### much energy we can use, we’re looking for a hot 14



### shower and a cold beer. Energy should be a means 15



### and not an end. 16


### So what you do is you make all of y our 17



### houses, all of your schools, all of your 18


### hospitals, all of your federal buildings, all of 19


### your community centers, all of your libraries, 20


### all of your buildings energy efficient, and then 21


### the stupid power plants don’t have to put the 22

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### carbon into the atmo sphere. 1


### But when we have the EPA burning 2


### incandescent bulbs, you’re not going to get 3


### there. It won’t happen, see? Here is this 4


### National Geographic special, “Energy for 5


### Tomorrow”, and Amory Lovins is interviewed here, 6



### and he’s asked about this term that h e came up 7


### with, “megawatts”, why are they so important? 8



### And he says because on average they cost you 9


### eight times less than it does to produce a watt 10


### of electricity. Neat thing here, they put him at 11



### the end. 12


### So this is the only way we’re going to 13



### make this country move again, not by working on 14


### the stupid dumb power plants. You go to where 15


### the power plants are made to be the stupid power 16


### plants. The stupid houses. 17



### I mean when I went into D.C. and I saw 18


### the stupid construction that was happening, but 19



### l ook at this light fixture here with the imaging 20


### specular reflector, it becomes a one bulb 21


### fixture. It’s so simple, insulating the mass. 22

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### The country needs to be rebuilt. You 1


### know what needs to happen will, you know, just 2



### dwarf what the new deal was. I t’s the only thing 3


### that’s going to work, not fixing power plants. 4


### And by the way, the idea about the nukes 5


### in Georgia, and over there in Finland after they 6


### said oh, we now have it all figured out, we’re 7


### not going to have cost overruns anymore, and 8



### we’re g oing to get these plants finished on time. 9


### It is not happening. 10



### I can remember when I was a little kid 11


### back in the 50's, I heard that nuclear power was 12


### going to be too cheap to meter. Didn’t happen. 13


### Didn’t happen. 14



### Well, when I’ve gone before the NRC a nd 15



### the Public Service Commission down in Florida, 16


### I’ve had my dice with me, and I’ve taken the dice 17



### and I’ve thrown it on the floor in front of them. 18


### That’s what you’re doing, you’re rolling the 19


### dice. Tried and true efficiency, efficiency is 20



### the answer t o create millions of jobs to put 21


### money in peoples’ pockets, living wage jobs to 22

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### make the country work again, jobs that are not 1


### exported. Right now the talk is putting the cart 2



### before the horse. 3



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 4



### MS. COYLE: Hello. Excuse me voi ce. 5


### Good morning, my name is Peggy Coyle, C

- o

- y

- l

- e. 6


### I’m a registered nurse from Ann Arbor, Michigan. 7


### I’m a climate reality project climate presenter, 8


### a member of Health Fellowship Climate and Ecology 9



### Center in Ann Arbor, and I’m also active in 10



### several community climate action groups. 11


### Two years ago I returned to Michigan 12


### after working seven years as a health care 13


### professional in Vietnam. During most of that 14


### time I lived in Ho Chi Minh City, which is in 15


### south Vietnam, and as you know, that’s one of the 16


### regions of the world where a very large 17


### population lives at or below sea level. 18


### This region always makes the shortlist of 19


### places predicted to face a crisis caused by 20


### rising sea levels. 21


### It was during my time living there that I 22

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### became aware of the changes in the environment 1


### and of the possible reasons that were causing 2


### them. I saw worsening floods each year, 3


### especially during the rainy season, when heavy 4


### rainfall combined with high tides flooded most of 5


### the city and made the city streets impassable for 6



### th e millions of motorbikes that make up the 7



### normal traffic there. 8


### The quality of air in Vietnam is also 9


### very poor. It’s rapidly developing manufactured 10


### economy and unregulated traffic pollution pour 11


### toxic fumes into the air and warm the atmosphere. 12



### But Vi etnam is not in a position to lead the 13


### world’s response to our warming climate and a 14


### polluted environment. 15



### We, in the United States, should 16


### certainly be taking strong steps to address this 17


### problem, and in doing so set an example for the 18



### other countries. I’m very happy to see the EPA 19


### proposal to cap the carbon emissions from power 20


### plants. Reducing the carbon pollution from these 21


### plants is the best way for the U.S. to begin to 22

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### reduce the risk of climate change, because these 1


### emissions make up 40 percent of our nation’s 2


### climate pollution. 3


### This is the fastest way to make us 4


### healthier and to impeded climate disruption. The 5


### health effects of this pollution are many. 6


### Additionally, warming climate leads to extreme 7


### weather events, which also put our health at 8


### risk. More and more people are being affected, 9



### and the most vulnerable are elderly and our 10



### children. 11


### The U.S. CDC describes likely health 12


### effects of increased temperature and extreme 13


### weather. They warn us of many possible effects. 14



### Heat exposure has a range of health effects from 15


### mild heat rash to deadly heat stroke. Heat 16


### exposure can also aggravate several chronic 17


### diseases, including cardiovascular and 18


### respiratory disease. The results can be severe 19



### and result in both increased illness and death. 20



### He at also increases ground level ozone 21


### concentrations, causing direct lung injury and 22

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### increasing the severity of respiratory diseases 1


### such as asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary 2



### disease. 3


### The CDC also warns that climate change 4


### will affect the air qualit y through several 5


### pathways, including the production and allergen 6


### in the city of aeroallergens, such as pollen and 7


### mold spores, and increases in regional ambient 8


### concentrations of ozone, fine particles and dust. 9


### Some of these pollutants can directly 10



### cause respiratory disease or exacerbate 11


### respiratory disease in susceptible individuals. 12


### Early flower blooming resulting from 13


### temperature increases and increased carbon 14


### dioxide concentrations affects the timing of 15


### distribution of aeroallergens such as pollen 16


### through plant photosynthesis and metabolism. 17


### There is also a possibility that these certain 18


### aeroallergens may become more allergenic as the 19


### temperatures and the CO2 increase. 20


### These are just a few of the many ways 21



### that are already known that our health will be 22

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### affected by the effects of increasing carbon 1


### emissions. It’s a vitally important challenge 2


### that we take strong steps where we can to impede 3


### this system of climate change. These new 4


### regulations are an important and welcome step 5


### towards changing th is moment. Thank you. 6


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. At this time 7


### we’re going to take a brief five

- minute break, so 8


### we’ll adjourn the hearing for five minutes and 9



### we’ll get under way at the end of that break. 10



### Thank you. 11



### [Recess taken from 11:37 to 11:47 a .m.] 12



### MR. WAYLAND: As soon as I get that 13


### information we’ll pass it along. We’re obviously 14


### not going to exclude anybody from speaking. 15


### Logistically, we’re just trying to figure out how 16


### it’s best to get people in and out of the 17


### building in an efficient ma nner. So, but now 18


### we’re going to proceed with the hearing and we’re 19


### going to take it from there. 20



### Actually, I’ve got the answer, so before 21


### we start, we’re going to have six more speakers 22

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### before the lunch break, and then we will be in 1


### recess until 1:00 p.m . this afternoon. And with 2



### that, Robin Wilson and Laura Yokochi. 3


### MR. WILSON: My name is Robin Wilson, 4



### W

- i

- l

- s

- o

- n, and I’m very supportive of the EPA 5



### Clean Power Plant initiative, and I’m also 6


### supportive of you all that are doing all this 7



### work to tak e the testimonies, I appreciate that. 8



### I’m a science teacher and I’ve done lots 9



### of research on the climate issue, and I’ve taken 10


### classes on global warming, and I feel a strong 11


### urge to do something about this. I feel like 12



### it’s a real crisis for our culture , so I’m so 13


### happy that there’s public attention being brought 14



### to this issue. 15



### I know the EPA has been very good about 16


### talking about rising temperature and rising sea 17


### levels and more intense floods and droughts, and 18


### disease epidemics, and species extinction . And 19


### the only thing I would add to that would be that 20


### I think there’s a real danger that our democracy 21


### and our economy could collapse under the crisis 22

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### of climate change. So I feel a strong need that 1



### we ramp up our efforts to change, to reverse 2



### climate c hange. 3



### I think we can do it. I think one of the 4


### examples is during World War II

-- I was born in 5


### World War II, so we had a response at that point, 6


### which was total. Industry changed. The people 7


### became much more willing to make changes in their 8



### life. We had a victory garden, my family did. 9



### And so I feel like we need that kind of 10



### commitment now to deal with this crisis. 11



### And it’s hard to do. I think it will be 12



### a test of human nature, whether we can mobilize 13


### against a threat that we haven’t experienced the 14


### worst of it yet. In other words, we’ve 15


### experienced some climate change but not very 16


### much. But in order to solve the problem, we’re 17


### going to have to be able to project out and do 18


### something now to keep preventing it from a 19


### terrible situation happening later. 20



### So the

-- in West Virginia I’ve worked on 21


### the issue of policy. And just so you get a sense 22

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### of what’s happening in West Virginia, the last 1


### legislative session we had House Bill 4346, which 2



### said that the EPA cannot enforce the Clean Power 3



### Plant prov isions in West Virginia, and it seemed 4


### to me that was tragic. Rather than getting 5


### together and saying what’s the best possible way 6



### we can make this work for us, there’s a lot of 7


### polarization, I’m sure you’ve heard some of it 8



### here. 9



### But I think we need t o get over it, and 10


### I’m a candidate for the West Virginia Senate, and 11


### I was endorsed by the United Mine Workers of 12


### America, and I felt good about that, because I 13


### feel like environmentalists and union people, 14



### miners, we all need to learn how to talk to each 15


### other and try to figure out some common solutions 16



### for these issues. 17


### But anyway, when I went to the committee 18


### meetings on that, the legislation 4346, it passed 19


### unopposed. There was basically nobody in the 20


### legislature willing to say that they’re actually 21



### h urting

-- you’re going to hurt West Virginia if 22

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### you implement this thing. Because in my reading 1


### of the law, it gives lots of leeway for states to 2


### implement the goals to their own liking. 3


### So we could develop an exciting energy 4


### efficiency program, we cou ld do renewables in 5


### West Virginia. There’s all kinds of things we 6



### could do if we

-- to meet the 2030 goals of the 7


### 30 percent reduction. There’s all kinds of ways 8


### we could do something about that, and I think 9


### it’s sad that people are just trying to say we 10


### don’t even want to try, we’re not even going to 11



### do it. 12


### And I think there are some community 13


### models that go along with policy. I think we 14


### need a three prong approach. We need the policy 15


### that the EPA is working on, and then we need 16


### community solutions, w hich I’m very excited 17


### about. My wife and I put on solar panels in the 18


### field in our house near Spencer, West Virginia, 19


### and we have generated 15 kilowatt hours of 20


### electricity. We have a surplus with the power 21



### company. 22

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### And my analogy is if you’re going dow n 1


### the interstate and you want to take an off ramp, 2


### it’s easier for you if that off ramp is well lit. 3


### And so what we’re trying to do is build community 4



### models of what it would look like to have a 5


### sustainable world. In other words, people say, 6



### “Oh, you’re going to take jobs away from miners,” 7


### but I think we can prove that there’s going to be 8


### many more jobs created in finding solutions to 9


### the problem. And like I said, I’m very pro 10


### miner, I just think we need to find positive 11



### solutions. 12



### When the asbestos industry was looking at 13


### the health issues around asbestos, they said “No, 14


### it’s not true,” and they denied it and denied it 15



### and denied it. And then the asbestos miners were 16


### out of a job, the companies were bankrupt, and 17


### the same thing could happen with the whole issue 18



### of coal. 19


### So does that red light mean I’m close to 20


### the end of my time? Okay. Anyway, I wanted to 21


### thank you very much and I appreciate what you’re 22

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### doing. 1


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, sir. 2


### MS. YOKOCHI: Hello, my name is Laura 3



### Yokochi, Y

- o

- k

- o

- c

- h

- i. I’d like to thank the 4


### group for giving us the opportunity to speak. 5


### I’m from Salem, West Virginia and I’m 6



### here to express my whole hearted support for the 7



### new EPA carbon rules. I believe these rules will 8


### be a giant step in the right direction. They 9


### don’t go far enough, but they are a step in the 10


### right direction. 11


### I’d like to thank the EPA for finally 12


### taking some action. The flexibility of the rules 13


### for each state will make it really easy to 14



### comply. So there really should be no excuse for 15



### any s tate to resist these new standards. 16


### I think it’s time for West Virginia to be 17


### part of the solution rather than part of the 18


### problem. In fact, I think the new guidelines 19


### will provide an opportunity for our state to 20



### build a better future. 21



### There are some who believe that coal and 22

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### natural gas are the most important resources in 1


### West Virginia, and what’s good for the fossil 2


### fuel industry is good for our state. I really 3


### disagree with that. I think it’s time to put the 4



### health and safety of our people, who ar e our 5


### greatest resource, ahead of financial profits. 6



### If we can wean ourselves away from over 7



### dependence on non

- renewable resources, we can 8


### improve our health, our economy and preserve 9


### rather than exploit the natural beauty of our 10



### state. 11



### I’d like to see a future where the 12


### quality of air and water, which are our most 13


### precious and life giving resources, are more 14


### important to our politicians than the campaign 15


### donations they receive from industries who would 16


### like to destroy these resources. 17



### I’d like to turn o n the lights in my home 18


### and know that my electricity is not produced 19


### through the destruction of our mountains. I 20


### would like to live in a place where the economy 21


### is diverse and geothermal, wind and solar are 22

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### thriving industries which provide safe and secur e 1



### employment. 2


### Instead of clinging to our out molded 3


### ways of producing energy, which has brought us to 4


### this crisis, we need to work together for a 5


### better future. This is the 21st century and we 6



### can do better. 7


### Thank you for helping us to do that and 8



### thank s for this opportunity. 9



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Okay, our next 10


### two speakers this morning will be Lyle Ray 11


### Roberts and Randy Cunningham. 12


### MR. ROBERTS: First of all, thank you for 13


### creating this time to listen. We all learn when 14


### diverse viewpoints are he ard. 15



### MR. WAYLAND: Would you state your name 16



### for the

-- 17


### MR. ROBERTS: My name is Lyle Ray 18



### Roberts, R

- a

- y R

- o

- b

- e

- r

- t

- s. And I’m the father 19


### of two awesome daughters, ages eight and eleven, 20


### and it’s because of them that I can no longer 21


### stay silent, and a lso why I’ve worked to start a 22

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### Pittsburgh Chapter of Citizen’s Climate Lobby. 1



### It’s a non

- partisan group dedicated to creating 2


### the political will to address climate change. 3


### I, and Citizen’s Climate Lobby, support 4



### the EPA and the Obama Administration in ta king 5


### serious actions to address global warming. 6



### However, I’m sad and angry that Congress has 7


### failed to act and forced the EPA to implement 8



### these rules. 9


### The costs of Congressional inaction are 10


### growing each year, and not in a linear way. The 11



### costs are gro wing exponentially, and they’re 12


### becoming more and more personal, too. This year 13


### I suffered my first asthma attack, so I thank the 14


### EPA for stepping up and doing what needs to be 15



### done. 16



### Unfortunately, the EPA rules are a blunt 17



### club of a tool compared to the laser scalpel of a 18


### legislative solution. A recently published study 19


### from MIT backs up this statement and I want to 20


### introduce a copy with my statement today. 21



### I call on our Congress to step up and 22

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### enact a market based revenue neutral carbon tax, 1


### using a f ee and dividend approach such as 2


### Citizen’s Climate Lobby advocates. Comparing 3


### apples to apples, the EPA’s blunt rules will 4



### reduce only 12.7 percent of CO2 compared to a 5



### revenue neutral carbon fee and dividend that 6



### would reduce CO2 by 33 percent below 2005 levels 7



### by 2020. 8


### I believe those legislatures who are 9


### complaining the loudest about the EPA’s power 10


### plant rules need to do their jobs and pass a law 11


### that does a better job than these EPA rules. 12


### The Independent Economic Modeling Group, 13



### REMI, has studied t his legislation recommended by 14


### Citizen’s Climate Lobby and found that it would 15


### grow our economy, it would create 2.1 million new 16


### jobs and save 13,000 lives per year. Here is a 17



### summary of that report. 18



### However, the EPA’s Power Plant Rules, 19


### while maybe not my first preference, or the MIT 20


### study’s first preference, I do support them and 21


### they are a genuine step in the right direction, 22

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### which is far better than the epic failure of our 1



### Congress to act. 2


### I have three requests. First, I wish to 3


### introduce recently published research from the 4


### London School of Economics that raises three huge 5


### problems with the dice mathematical model used by 6


### the U.S. Government to set a price for the social 7



### costs of carbon. 8



### These problems are that technology can’t 9



### bounce back follow ing repeated and increasing 10



### climate related disasters. 11


### Two, failing to consider climate tipping 12


### points for which global warming acts like pouring 13


### gasoline on a bonfire. 14


### And the third major problem is there are 15



### unexpected and unforeseen problems. 16



### When I leave my house every day, I don’t 17


### expect it to burn down, but I still have fire 18


### insurance. Currently, we’re using a mathematical 19


### model that assumes nothing unexpected ever goes 20



### wrong. 21


### If the dice model for pricing carbon is 22

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### adjusted, it clearly points out the EPA’s current 1


### carbon price of $38 per ton is way too low. 2


### Please increase your carbon price. I 3


### agree with the London School of Economics and I 4


### believe your price on carbon is dangerously low. 5


### My second request, please include any 6



### recommendation s for how states might satisfy the 7


### EPA rules, a revenue neutral carbon tax using the 8


### fee and dividend approach similar to the 9


### legislation that Citizen’s Climate Lobby 10



### advocates for. 11



### I believe that if this form of carbon tax 12


### is implemented on a state by st ate level, the 13


### economic benefits would push other states or our 14



### entire nation to follow suit. 15



### Third, I believe there needs to be EPA 16


### rules to address the incredibly potent greenhouse 17


### gas of methane. Here in Pittsburgh, we have an 18


### aging infrastructure tha t leaks methane, and for 19



### every ton of CO2 the EPA rules prevent, and the 20


### equivalent amount of methane is 80 times more 21


### destructive in our atmosphere. Rules on other 22

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### greenhouse gases are necessary next steps. 1


### The EPA is being forced to lead in taking 2



### acti on on climate change. It is a moral 3


### obligation, not only to every citizen in our 4



### country, but to my daughters and to all the 5



### children in our nation. 6


### The greedy and most profitable companies 7


### in the history of the planet are rallying against 8



### you, but you a re doing the right thing and you 9



### have my support. Thank you. 10



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 11


### MR. RANDY CUNNINGHAM: Good morning. My 12


### name is Randy Cunningham. I live at 3623 West 13


### Boulevard, Cleveland, Ohio, 44111. My phone 14



### number is 216

- 245

- 1073. 15



### I am Chair of the Coal and Energy 16



### Committee of the Northeast Ohio Sierra Club 17


### Group, and a member of the Cleveland Environment 18



### Action Network. 19


### My views expressed here are my own. I 20


### wish to speak in favor of the proposed standards. 21


### The primary virtue is that they are the first 22

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### steps we have seen in dealing with the issue of 1


### climate change since the disastrous collapse of 2


### climate legislation in Congress during the summer 3



### of 2010. 4


### We were buttress on negotiating position 5


### in the next year in conclave on the cli mate. 6


### They are at least something in a policy 7


### environment that has offered us nothing. 8


### Their primary advice is that they are 9


### nowhere near what it would take to protect us 10


### from the consequences of climate change. But we 11


### should not let the good get in the way of the 12


### inadequate. 13


### That inadequacy is shown and what they do 14



### not take into consideration, the revolution of 15


### fossil fuel production that has been brought 16


### about by the advent of fracking for oil and 17


### natural gas, mountain top removal coal mining, 18



### tar sa nds derivement of northern Alberta, and 19


### deep ocean oil production. 20


### This revolution produces coal, oil and 21


### natural gas from sources that were long written 22

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### off as technically unfeasible and economically 1


### unprofitable. 2


### It is frequently called extreme energy. 3


### I call it berserk energy because an energy regime 4


### that blows the tops off mountains, strip mines a 5


### whole region of North America, ruins aquifers and 6


### turns the Gulf of Mexico into a deadly zone is 7



### berserk. 8


### One problem with the proposed standards 9


### is they only pay attention to what happens once 10



### the fuel source gets to the power plant. They do 11


### not consider the whole process from extraction to 12



### combustion. 13


### Fracking illustrates this problem. It is 14


### during the process of fracking that the case for 15



### natural ga s is when a more environmentally 16


### friendly form of fossil fuel begins to fall 17



### apart. 18


### There is the release of the potent 19


### methane gas at drill sites, and the poison of air 20


### and soil, aquifers and streams from the 21


### byproducts of drill sites. 22

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### Fracking also poll utes our democracy with 1


### fracking exemptions to home rule, the flooding of 2


### state legislatures with money, the corrupting of 3


### regulatory agencies and the use of gag orders to 4


### silence those who have been harmed by fracking 5



### wells. 6



### Next we should consider natur al gas as a 7


### bridge fuel to a renewable energy future. I 8


### don’t know what is worse, the gullibility of 9


### those who believe this lie or the mendacity of 10


### those who promote it. The bridge is a bridge to 11


### nowhere. The producers have no intention of 12


### helping trans ition to renewable energy that would 13


### put them out of business. 14



### When the EPA promotes natural gas 15


### production from fracking as a way to deal with 16


### climate change because it does not release as 17


### much carbon as coal, it is acting like an alcohol 18



### treatment progr am that urges its clients to sober 19


### up by giving up vodka and whiskey and switching 20



### to beer and wine. After all, beer and wine do 21


### not have as high an alcohol content as vodka and 22

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### whiskey. 1


### Another problem is with the proposed 2


### standards used as a guideline, the overall 3


### efficiency of emissions per unit of energy 4


### generated. This dovetails nicely with the 5


### Administration’s energy mantra of all the above, 6


### which really means the same old, same old. 7


### The standard should prioritize renewable 8



### energy sources over tra ditional fossil fuels. We 9



### need to mobilize for a transition to renewables 10


### as we mobilized to fight World War II. Then we 11


### would be able to call this a serious policy 12


### initiative on climate change. 13


### To end, we must subject a sense of moral 14


### urgency into the debate on this proposal. If you 15


### saw a toddler wondering into traffic, you would 16


### not text its parents, you would rush to pull the 17


### child from harm’s way. What we need is that 18


### sense of urgency with the climate challenge we 19


### face. Simple moral decency and th e well

- being of 20


### those who come after us demand it. Thank you. 21



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Okay, we have 22

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### three more speakers and then we’re going to break 1


### for lunch. I’m probably not going to get this 2


### first one right but I will try. Andre Saint Cyr 3



### and W illiam Thwing. 4



### MR. SAINT CYR: Hello. 5


### MR. WAYLAND: Good evening. 6


### MR. SAINT CYR: I’m doing great. Can you 7


### hear me? Yeah, I wrote a few things. I’m Andre 8


### Saint Cyr, a community activist in Cleveland, 9


### Ohio. And the first thing I wanted to do is

-- I 10


### wrote some stuff down but I can just tell you 11



### what I know I think. 12


### We have a power plant right there not far 13



### from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that has a 14



### coal burner, an old coal burner. It’s about 50 15


### years old if not 60, and the community that that 16



### pl ant is by is an African/American community, and 17



### hadn’t looked at some of the literature that 18


### relates to the communities around these plants, 19



### and some of the

-- there were some points that I 20


### wanted to bring out that you’re probably familiar 21



### with, and I want ed to thank you for trying to 22

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### shut some of these plants down, and/or cut down 1


### emissions, which you’re trying to do. 2



### There is a

-- these are some statistics 3


### that if you weren’t familiar, you can add it to 4


### the record, that this was an issue they had

-- 5



### this was a study by the NAACP with some other 6


### affiliates. This thing was a conclusion back in 7



### 2012, and it related to the African

-- I’m going 8


### to raise some points about low income communities 9


### and communities of color bear the greatest burden 10


### of dirty coal en ergy, a total of 5.9 million 11



### Americans live within

-- live within three miles 12


### of a major coal fired plant, such as I do. 13


### Those 5.9 million people have an average 14


### per capita of $18,400, 17 percent lower than the 15


### U.S. average. Out of those 5.9 million peop le, 16



### 39 percent are people of color. 17


### Another point, because it’s on Lake Erie, 18


### and this is the old coal burning plant, one of 19



### the many

-- but anyway, mercury from the power 20


### plants accumulates in water, local waterways, and 21


### presents a direct risk to people when they eat 22

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### contaminated fish. 1


### As it is pollutants such as mercury, 2



### benzene , dioxins have the greatest impact on 3


### people located within a mile of power plants with 4


### smoke stacks reaching up to a thousand feet high. 5



### Some of these toxic chemicals can tra vel far, 6


### causing regional or even global impacts, and 7


### we’ve had that right here in Cleveland. 8


### If you know anything about Lake Erie, 9


### that plant sits within a quarter mile of the edge 10


### of the shore. And if you get a northern wind, it 11



### blows into one sectio n of the black community. 12


### And if you get a western wind, the other 13


### community gets it. And this is something that’s 14


### been going on a long time. I grew up with this 15


### plant, and it’s one of the worst in Ohio. 16



### But back to some of the other statistics 17



### that af fect the African/American communities 18


### that’s around this plant and other plants around 19


### the country, 68 percent of African/Americans live 20


### within 30 miles of a power plant. The distance 21



### within

-- the distance within the maximum effects 22

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### of the smoke stack pl ume are expected to occur. 1


### By comparison, about 56 percent of the 2


### white population lives within 30 miles of a coal 3


### fired plant. At least one in twelve, as many as 4



### one in

-- at least one in twelve, and as many as 5


### one in six American women of child bearing age 6


### have enough mercury in their bodies to put a baby 7


### at risk for mercury poisoning. 8


### Mercury and other dangerous air 9



### pollutants are connected to extreme health 10


### problems, brain damage, learning disabilities, 11



### birth defects, heart disease, cancer and even 12



### p remature death. 13


### On to another point, several of the 14


### toxins from power plant emissions are also tied 15


### to lung cancer. Despite lower smoking rates, 16


### African/Americans are more likely to develop and 17


### die from lung cancer than white Americans. 18



### This will be the last point. The 2010 19


### Report on Power Plant Pollution by Clean Air Task 20


### Force found that coal power plant pollution in 21


### the United States is responsible for 13,200 22

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### premature deaths, 9,700 hospitalizations each 1


### year, as well as over a billion dollars in 2



### mon etary damages. 3


### I just wanted to have those stats on the 4


### record. You’re probably going to have some more 5


### later on today. And since it is a personal 6


### thing, and I live next to this plant, and I was a 7


### kid growing up, you know, you could see the smoke 8



### stak es aren’t as high, but I’m glad you’re doing 9


### what you’re doing, because you kind of need to 10



### get on that one and shut that one down, man. 11



### You know, and then we’ve had some 12



### dilemmas also because of the laws that were

-- 13



### they scaled back some laws through ou r Governor, 14



### John Casey, and they took the stuff back to 2009. 15



### And we’re the first state that did that in the 16


### country, so it might be a trend. That’s it. 17



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much for 18


### your testimony, appreciate it. 19



### MR. THWING: Good afternoon. M y name is 20


### William Thwing, T

- h

- w

- i

- n

- g, and I’ve submitted 21



### my reports to you. I am the pastor of the St. 22

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### Paul’s United Church of Christ in Johnstown, 1


### Pennsylvania. I am here representing Creation 2



### Care Partners, an arm of the Penn West Conference 3



### of the Un ited Church of Christ, which is devoted 4


### to environmental justice. And also, the greater 5



### Johnstown Creation Care, a faith based 6


### organization from the Johnstown area, which 7


### serves to forewarn citizens of the coming ravages 8


### of climate change, accelerating cl imate change 9


### and preparing them to act on it. 10


### Human caused carbon pollution is the main 11


### reason for climate warming. Our scientists and 12


### politicians have known about out of control 13


### atmospheric carbon dioxide for over 50 years. 14



### But they have chosen to do n othing about it 15


### except talk and research, and study until now, 16



### when it is almost too late. Because now, the 17


### Arctic permafrost is leaking methane like a 18



### sieve. Now, holes

-- as of July 16th, holes, the 19


### very first one, the size of football fields, are 20



### expl oding with giant amounts of methane coming 21



### out of the Siberian shelf. 22

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### Now glacial ice from the West Arctic 1



### Shelf and from Greenland have been proven to be 2


### sliding slowly into the ocean, guaranteeing to 3


### raise coastal sea levels in the United States by 4



### at least ten feet, and coastal cities all over 5



### the planet. 6



### We Americans have known about this for 7


### two generations, but we are so addicted to the 8


### pleasures of our over consumption that we have 9


### become literally obese, lazy and addicts, 10



### addicts. 11



### We have allow ed the Robert Barons of the 12


### fossil fuel industry to dupe us with their 13



### millions and billions of dollars of false 14


### advertising, convincing us that everything is 15


### okay and we should continue to use and buy their 16


### products. Products which will not only destroy 17



### human civilization as we know it, but which have 18


### driven, already, many species into extinction, 19


### and very well may drive our own species into 20



### extinction if we continue on our current course. 21


### Everything is not okay. We are in great 22

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### danger as a culture, and as a civilization and as 1


### a nation if we continue. It is time to wake up. 2


### It is time to make some big changes in our 3


### thinking and our lifestyles before it’s too late. 4



### In its Clean Power Plan, the

-- which 5


### will reduce American carbon pollution 30 percen t 6


### by 2030, the EPA has taken a giant step in the 7


### right direction, and I thank you for that. 8


### But it’s just one baby step in the whole 9


### process of slowing down what we know is coming. 10



### There are many, many more steps that need to be 11



### taken by the EPA, by stat e and environmental 12


### protection agencies, and particularly by our 13


### federal, state, administrative, legislative and 14


### judicial leaders if we are going to head off the 15


### worst effects of climate change. 16



### We must eliminate fossil fuel subsidies. 17



### We must enact a ca rbon tax. We must convert our 18


### fossil fuel based energy system to a renewable 19


### based energy system, using energy from the sun, 20


### water, wind, which are all free gifts from God, 21


### which once harnessed will provide more than 22

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### enough energy for the entire planet, a nd will 1


### provide many more jobs here in the good old US of 2


### A than the fossil fuel industry, than mechanized 3


### fossil fuel industry ever can or will. 4


### We must keep all fossil fuels in the 5


### ground where God put them in the first place and 6



### where they should sta y. 7


### We need a vision, and we need hope. And 8



### we need to believe that we can do it. And we 9



### will need lots of talented innovators and 10


### entrepreneurs to make this happen. We will need 11


### legislators, judges, political administrators who 12


### have integrity, who hav e wisdom, who has the 13


### courage to do what is right, and who are not 14


### buyable. We need to hobble the fossil fuel 15


### industry to make it do our will rather than us 16


### doing its will, thereby corrupting our entire 17


### democratic system, and systematically destroying 18



### our nation and our civilization. The one that 19



### our ancestors worked so hard to create for us. 20


### Otherwise, there will be nothing left for 21


### our children and for our grandchildren. We will 22

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### have squandered it in just a few years, years 1


### which took hundreds of year s, or even thousands 2


### of years to create. If you believe in a creative 3


### God as I do, and if you are familiar with the 4


### scriptures as I am, you know that this planet is 5


### a very special place. It is the only place in 6



### the universe that we know of for sure where human 7


### life exists, or where any life exists. 8


### It is precious. It is unique. It is one 9


### of a kind. It is worth protecting. It is worth 10


### preserving. We humans are the only ones who are 11


### capable of doing that. According to my belief, 12


### we were given the r esponsibility a long time ago 13


### of preserving and protecting this planet by our 14


### creator, and we are failing miserably. It’s time 15


### to take responsibility seriously. It’s time to 16


### devote our every waking moment to preserving and 17


### protecting our planet, our seed s, our land, our 18



### air, our water, our civilization and all the 19


### other life forms with whom we share this planet 20



### before it's too late and we lose everything. 21


### And may God help us get this job done. 22

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### Thank you. 1



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 2


### Andre, did you have a nything you wanted 3



### to leave with us? 4



### MR. SAINT CYR: No. I could leave a 5


### piece for you. 6


### MR. WAYLAND: Okay. We’ll add it to the 7



### record so she can get some of the numbers. 8


### Okay, we’re down to our final speaker for 9


### the morning session, then we’ll take a brief 10


### break for lunch and reconvene at one p.m. back in 11



### this room. 12



### For those of you who do not want to leave 13


### the building, there is a cafeteria, I’m told, on 14


### the second floor. I cannot speak to the quality 15



### of the food, but there is a cafeteria in th e 16


### building on the second floor if you’d like to use 17



### it. 18


### Our final speaker this morning will be 19


### Jennifer McIntyre. 20



### MS. MCINTYRE: Good afternoon. My name 21


### is Jennifer McIntyre. I’m the Pennsylvania Field 22

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### Manager of Mom’s Clean Air Force. I’d like to 1



### tha nk the EPA for holding these hearings today. 2



### I’m here as a mom of two daughters who 3


### have struggled with respiratory illness. My 4


### oldest daughter was diagnosed with asthma at age 5


### eight months, after numerous emergency visits. 6


### Nothing I had ever experienc ed comes close to the 7


### terror of watching an infant struggle to breathe. 8



### That fear changed me and set me on a 9


### course to find out what I could do to prevent 10


### another attack. I found there are many things I 11



### could control that would help lessen the chances 12



### of another asthma attack. However, the most 13


### important risk factor was and is out of my 14


### control. It’s the simple act of walking outside 15


### and taking a breath of air. 16



### I’m also here today on behalf of mothers 17


### of asthmatic children who could not make the trip 18



### t o show our support for the EPA’s Clean Power 19


### Plan, and to demand strong action on climate 20


### change and the harmful carbon pollution fueling 21



### it. 22

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### My family lives in Philadelphia, where 1


### last year, according to the American Lung 2


### Association, we had fifty orange ozone days. 3


### Philadelphia County received an F grade in both 4


### ozone pollution and particulate pollution. 5


### We know that in the U.S., power plants 6


### are responsible for nearly 40 percent of the 7


### carbon pollution that is putting our health and 8



### the health of the planet at risk. We have a 9


### moral obligation to our children and future 10


### generations to limit the emissions of dangerous 11



### pollutants. 12


### We fought to put limits on mercury, 13


### arsenic, soot and other dangerous pollutants, yet 14


### shockingly, power plants are able to d ub 15


### unlimited carbon pollution into the air without 16


### regard to the health of our children or the 17



### planet. 18



### As a mom, I say make polluters clean up 19



### their mess. Children should not have to be 20


### rushed to the ER for nebulizer treatments just 21


### because corporations won’t act responsibly. 22

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### We should be committing all our brain 1


### power and resources toward developing more 2


### intelligent moral ways to generate the power we 3


### need, not letting corporations take the easy way 4



### out. 5


### I hope that my children will grow up to 6



### see a c ountry that solved this serious problem 7



### which threatened human health and the health of 8


### the planet through innovation and hard work, not 9


### one that out of laziness and greed dump toxic 10


### waste into the atmosphere. 11



### The EPA’s Clean Power Plan is an 12


### important fi rst step in addressing climate change 13


### and harmful air pollution. To weaken it is 14



### unconscionable. Mothers across the United States 15


### are watching to make sure states implementing the 16


### plan consider children’s health and our moral 17


### obligation to future generat ions. 18


### Again, thank you so much for this 19


### opportunity to testify today. 20



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. And 21


### with that we will adjourn the hearing for lunch. 22

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### We will reconvene in this room in about 40 1


### minutes at 1:00 p.m. Thank you. 2



### [Lunch recess fr om 12:22 to 1:11 p.m.] 3



### MR. WAYLAND: Good afternoon. We’re 4


### ready to reconvene today’s Public Hearing. 5


### My name is Bob Wayland. I’m the leader 6


### of the Energy Strategies Group of EPA in Research 7


### Triangle Park, North Carolina, and I’m one of the 8



### folks chai ring these hearings on this floor and 9



### up on the 15th floor today. 10



### First and foremost, I’d like to thank 11


### each of you for coming and spending part of your 12


### afternoon with us to share your thoughts and 13



### comments. 14


### Joining me on the panel today to my 15



### immediat e left is Debra Dalcher of OAQPS in our 16


### Research Triangle Park where I’m from. 17


### And to her left is Jeremy Mark. He’s 18


### from our Office of Atmospheric Programs in 19


### Washington, D.C. 20


### I’m going to read through some remarks 21


### that are going to help you underst and how this is 22

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### going to flow and how we’d like it to go, so if 1


### you’d pay close attention, it would be great. 2


### We are here today to listen to your 3



### comments on the two proposed rules to reduce 4


### carbon pollution from plants. The EPA announced 5



### both of these p roposed rules on June 2nd, 2014. 6


### Power plants are the single largest 7


### source of carbon pollution in the U.S., 8


### accounting for roughly one

- third of all domestic 9


### greenhouse gas emissions. 10


### The first rule EPA proposed is a Clean 11


### Power Plan for Existing Powe r Plants. This 12


### proposal consists of two main parts, a State 13


### specific goal section that lowers carbon 14


### pollution from power plants and a guidelines 15


### section that’s designed to help states develop 16


### their plans for meeting these individual state 17



### goals. 18


### This pr oposal gives states flexibility in 19


### determining how to meet these goals and states 20


### will choose what goes into their plans that show 21


### how they will achieve the needed reductions and 22

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### meet their goals by the year 2030. 1


### The second rule is EPA’s proposed rule to 2



### address carbon dioxide emissions from modified 3


### and reconstructed power plants. This rule would 4


### set emission limits for two groups of power 5



### plants. 6


### First, those that make physical or 7


### operational changes that increase the plant’s 8



### maximum achievable hour ly rate of emissions, and 9



### for those plants that replace components to such 10



### an extent that the new components exceed 50 11


### percent of the capital cost of an entirely new 12


### comparable facility. 13



### Those are the Clean Air Act definitions 14



### for a modified source and a reconstructed source. 15


### If you would like more details on either 16



### of these proposed rules, there are fact sheets 17


### available near the registration downstairs in the 18


### lobby. Avail yourself to those as you leave or 19



### later this afternoon. 20


### Today’s hearing is one o f four that we’ve 21


### held across the country this week on these two 22

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### proposed rules. We have had tremendous interest 1


### in each of these hearings and I would like to 2


### thank you for taking the time out of your day to 3


### join us and share your comments with us. 4



### We ha ve a lot of people signed up to 5


### speak not only this afternoon, but after the 6


### dinner hour and we want to hear from all of you. 7


### So before we get started I’d like to go 8


### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 9


### that will help make today’s hearing run smoother. 10


### First, please be sure that you have 11


### checked in at the registration desk. Even if you 12


### are not planning to speak today, we would like 13


### for you to register downstairs so we know who has 14



### been in attendance. 15


### And if you signed up to speak online or 16



### by phone, but haven’t yet told us that you’re 17


### here, please go to the registration desk and tell 18


### them because they’re sending me the names on 19


### index cards to call you up to speak. So if you 20


### are planning to speak and you haven’t registered, 21



### please do so. 22

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### Th e second important thing is if you are 1


### a speaker, as I mentioned earlier, we are running 2


### two concurrent hearings. This is Room A. If 3


### you’re signed up to speak in Room B, you need to 4



### go up to the 15th floor, and now would be a good 5


### time to do that. If yo u’re assigned to Room A, 6


### you’re in this room and we will get to you in the 7


### order that you have signed up. 8


### Okay, so here’s how we’re going to work 9


### it. I’m going to call you up to the

-- I’ll fix 10


### those chairs, but I’m going to call you up to the 11



### table two at a time and there’s not a flood and 12


### we’re not building an ark, but we’re going to do 13


### it two at a time. And you come up and sit 14


### together, and I ask that you remain there while 15



### the other person speaks and you leave together, 16


### and I’ll call two additional p eople. 17



### When I call on you to speak, please state 18



### your name, and please spell your last name for 19


### the court reporter to make sure that it’s 20


### accurately reflected in the record. 21


### We will be providing a verbatim 22

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### transcript of today’s hearing, and it will be 1



### av ailable at some point in the future in the 2


### public docket so that you can have access to 3



### that. 4


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 5


### give their comments. We have this nice little 6


### light down here on the end of the table to help 7


### you keep up with that. Wh en the light turns 8


### green it is time for you to start. When it goes 9


### to yellow, it means you have roughly a minute 10


### left. And when it turns red, it means you should 11


### be wrapping up your remarks, and then you will 12


### hear a buzzer that will tell you you need to be 13



### done. 14


### I’m not going to cut anybody off anybody 15



### in mid

- sentence , but like I said, we have a lot 16


### of people here testify, so if you could stick to 17


### the five minute allotted window, that would help 18


### everybody out. But again, we’re here to hear 19



### you, so we’re going to do the best we can to 20



### accommodate everyone. 21


### When you are finished speaking, please 22

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### remain, like I said, until the next person has 1


### completed. We’re here to listen to you today, 2


### however, if there is something you say that we 3



### may not totally under stand, we’re able to ask 4


### clarifying questions. So we may or may not need 5



### to do that when you present. 6


### I’ll call up the next pair of speakers 7



### and we’ll go through that throughout the 8


### afternoon. If you have written testimony that 9



### you’ve brought, you can l eave it here on the 10


### table. That also will find its way into the 11


### public docket. It will also help the court 12


### reporter to make sure that we’ve got everything 13



### accurate for the record there. 14



### Because of the large number of people who 15


### have signed up to speak t oday, and to be fair to 16


### each of you, we’re going to have to do our best 17


### enforcing the five

- minute limit. Like I said, 18



### we’ll be as flexible as we can but we can’t let 19


### you go on for eight or ten minutes because it’s 20


### just not fair to everyone else. 21



### If you have additional comments you would 22

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### like to make that you didn’t have time to speak 1


### on the record, you can deposit them here, and 2


### again, the will get into the Air docket. 3


### I want to assure you that EPA gives just 4



### as much consideration to comments we receive in 5


### writing as we do to the comments we’re going to 6


### hear here today. So if you have more that you 7


### would like to say, or something you may think of 8


### after today, feel free to submit it Air and 9


### Radiation docket and it will go into the 10


### rulemaking effort. 11



### The re is still a lot of time to get 12



### written comments in. There are comment cards 13


### available up here on the table, and anything you 14


### submit in writing needs to be into the docket or 15



### to the agency by October the 16th of 2014 at 16


### midnight. 17


### We will put any of thes e written comments 18


### in the official docket for the proposed rule, and 19


### there are instructions in the lobby downstairs 20


### for exactly how you make that electronic email or 21


### PDF submission to the docket. So if you have 22

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### questions about that, the folks downstairs i n the 1


### lobby will be able to direct you to that 2


### information and help you out. 3


### We’re scheduled to go until 5:00 in this 4



### afternoon session. There will be a brief break 5



### from five to six for dinner, and then we’ll 6


### reconvene at 6:00 and go to 8:00 this evening

. 7



### There may be the need

-- this afternoon 8



### session is a four

- hour session, which is a long 9


### one. So we may need to break somewhere in the 10



### middle for five or ten minutes to allow the 11



### reporter to stretch her hands and legs and that 12


### kind of stuff. Sitting t here typing for four 13


### hours straight is kind of arduous, so we may take 14



### a break around 3:00 or 3:15 for that. 15


### All right, if you have any questions 16


### during today, please see the staff at the 17


### registration desk or some of the folks in the 18



### back of the room. Th ey’ll be happy to help you 19



### as best they can. 20


### And finally, I want to ask each of you to 21



### please be respectful of everyone who speaks 22

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### today. We have people in this room this 1


### afternoon with a wide variety of views in the 2



### audience and we want to hear from a ll of you. 3



### So in order for us to do that, and to be 4


### fair to everyone, we ask that you listen quietly. 5


### Even applause can slow things down, and because 6


### time is so critical in these hearings we want to 7



### keep them on schedule and assure that everyone 8



### has a ch ance to speak. 9


### Also, if you would refrain from coming in 10


### and out of the room while people are speaking, 11


### that would be good too, because the noise tends 12


### to filter in from the hall. So if you need to 13


### leave the room, go when speakers are changing, 14



### not while they’re speaking, that would be very 15



### helpful. 16


### So I think that’s all the housekeeping 17


### stuff I need to do for now. So thank you again 18


### for your attendance, we look forward to hearing 19


### from you and we will start with the first two 20


### speakers this afternoon. T he first one is Thomas 21


### Au, and I apologize if I mispronounce that. And 22

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### Thomas Collins. 1


### MR. AU: Good afternoon. My name is 2


### Thomas Au, it’s spelled A

- u. I am here today on 3



### behalf of the Clean Air Board in Central 4


### Pennsylvania. 5



### In 2005, over a hundred C umberland County 6


### physicians published an open letter informing the 7


### community of the growing danger of air pollution. 8


### The Clean Air Board was formed to support these 9


### positions and educating our community and 10


### advocating for cleaner air. 11


### We have grown to in clude hundreds of 12


### people in Central Pennsylvania. The Clean Air 13


### Act requires the EPA to develop regulations for 14


### categories of sources which cause or 15


### significantly contribute to air pollution which 16


### may endanger the public health or welfare. 17



### Greenhouse gas emissions endanger the public 18



### health and welfare. 19


### The increasing evidence of the 20


### sensitivity of climate to rising levels of 21



### greenhouse gases such as Super Storm Sandy and 22

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### more rapid disappearance of arctic sea ice 1



### underscores the need for states to take action to 2


### reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The Clean Air 3


### Act offers an avenue for addressing these 4


### greenhouse gas emissions and carbon pollution. 5


### The EPA, once it finds that greenhouse 6


### gases are responsible for air pollution, must 7


### issue guidance to the s tates on how to implement 8


### the best system of emission reductions for 9


### existing sources. The Clean Air Act requires 10


### states to develop plans similar to the State 11


### Implementation Plans for Criteria Pollutants for 12


### Existing Sources of Non

- criteria Pollutants, in 13


### this case, greenhouse gases. 14


### We believe that the regulations that you 15


### are considering now offer an opportunity to 16


### tailor a plan specific for Pennsylvania which 17


### would accomplish the emission reductions that are 18


### necessary to move forward to combat climate 19


### disruption. 20



### On December 2nd, 2013, the commissioners, 21



### secretaries and directors of environmental and 22

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### energy agencies from the states within the 1


### Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative commented to 2


### EPA on this forthcoming regulation for greenhouse 3



### gasses from e xisting power plants. 4


### While Pennsylvania is not a member of 5


### RGGI, we believe that Pennsylvania can learn from 6


### the RGGI experience. Recent RGGI comments 7


### encourage EPA to design its regulations to 8


### maximize energy efficiency to allow emissions 9



### already reduc ed to count for compliance, and to 10


### maximize greenhouse gas reductions within a large 11


### region. 12



### RGGI states have asserted, and the EPA 13


### has recognized in its preamble to the regulations 14


### that the RGGI initiative is an example of the 15


### magnitude of cuts that the EPA should demand from 16


### existing sources elsewhere in this country. 17


### I’m calling from the RGGI comments, “The 18


### experience in the RGGI states show that the 19


### magnitude of emission reductions possible from 20


### the power sector have projected 50 percent 21



### decline in to ns of carbon dioxide emissions and 22

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### from a fossil fuel generation fleet that is 1


### projected to achieve compliance on par with the 2



### recently proposed resource performance standards 3


### for electric generating units.” 4



### “Between 2005 and 2012, CO2 emission from 5



### the power sector in the nine participating RGGI 6



### states dropped more than 40 percent, from 262.5 7



### million tons in 2005 to 92 million tons in 2012. 8


### The RGGI states are locking in this reduction by 9


### reducing the regional cap to 91 million tons in 10



### 2014, and reduci ng it an additional 2.5 percent 11


### each year thereafter to 78 billion tons in 2020.” 12


### “In 2020, the RGGI emission caps will 13


### ensure that the regional emissions are 50 percent 14



### lower than the 2005 emission levels.” 15



### Now, some of these emission reductions 16



### are fro m the successful energy efficiency 17


### programs implemented by each of the RGGI 18


### participating states. For example, New York’s 19


### energy efficiency programs reduce electricity use 20


### in New York by an accumulative total of 6.5 21


### percent in 2012. 22

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### And RGGI states that this regional 1


### approach emission reductions have several 2


### benefits. It’s extremely cost effective because 3



### it uses market mechanisms to seek out the least 4


### expensive emission reductions in the region. 5


### It provides economic benefits, creates 6


### thousands of jo bs in three years, and creating 7


### and reducing energy bills and it aligns with the 8


### regional nature of the energy grid. 9


### Although Pennsylvania is not part of 10


### RGGI, the Pennsylvania utilities work in RGGI 11


### states, and Pennsylvania can design a state plan 12



### which could dovetail RGGI. And Pennsylvania 13


### should adopt these guiding principles that were 14


### implemented by RGGI. 15


### We think that we have a moral imperative 16



### to reduce the emissions that contribute to 17


### climate disruption, and there are sound economic 18



### reasons for doing so. 19



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Any 20


### questions? No? Okay. 21


### MR. COLLINS: Hello. My name is Thomas 22

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### Collins. I’m from Garrettsville, Ohio, and I’m 1



### here to say I strongly support the proposed rules 2


### to cut carbon pollution from our power plan ts and 3


### to urge your national move to the alternatives of 4


### energy efficiency and renewable energy. And I 5


### think I was the first person in Ohio to sign up 6



### and come and tell you why. 7



### MR. WAYLAND: Glad you’re here. 8


### MR. COLLINS: With my family roots to 9



### East of here in Dukane, and south of here in 10


### Jefferson, my family, a long time ago, moved from 11


### the mines in southern PA to what we hoped was, 12


### you know, better work, a better life, the 13



### American dream in Ohio. 14


### But like a lot of the people in this area 15



### of Pennsyl vania, I grew up shoveling coal into a 16


### boiler in our basement to keep warm. My family 17


### didn’t know the neurological effects and long 18



### term effects of health by coal exposure. 19


### By the time I was thirteen, we had moved 20



### to town and left the coal bin and the boiler 21


### behind, but then I lost vision in one eye. That 22

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### was the beginning of life dealing with MS, 1


### multiple sclerosis. Eventually, seven of the 2


### nine of my brothers and sisters had some sort of 3



### autoimmune disease. 4



### And the better that my dad moved to, th at 5


### ended up being at a coal fired rubber factory. 6


### He passed away just before his 60th birthday. 7


### His arteries were so weak they just gave out. 8


### Back here in PA, cancer and black lung 9


### hit our extended family, and all this damage, 10



### this is one of the real costs we pay for fossil 11



### fuel use, illness, medical bills, lost 12


### productivity, family lives shortened. These are 13


### costs all passed by dirty energy. 14



### Now with science, we learn that the cost 15


### of the pollution is even more than a personal 16


### hazard. There’s growi ng levels of pollution in 17


### the sky and causing

-- they cause big changes 18


### bigger than any of us could ever imagine, and in 19


### the end, what we did yesterday is going to be 20


### paid for by our kids tomorrow. 21


### Ironically, the oil man, T. Boone Pickens 22

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### just recently a nnounced his five principles of 1


### energy, and the first principle he listed was a 2


### clear responsibility and accountability for 3


### energy decisions. I want to join Mr. Pickens and 4


### call for responsible energy use and 5


### accountability for the harm caused in the purs uit 6



### of a dollar. 7


### As our president recently said, a low 8


### carbon, clean energy economy can be an engine 9


### for grown and jobs for decades to come. Well, 10


### I’m here to tell you I want America to love that 11


### clean engine. Shame on us all, and what a shame 12



### it would be if instead of working to make America 13


### the world leader with clean energy, we continue 14


### wasting our time on how fast we should go 15


### backwards, because hiding from a problem has 16



### never been our way. 17


### As we move forward with clean energy, we 18



### have to remember my family and all the other 19



### families around here, because we will be left as 20


### clear examples of how past poor decisions that 21


### were made without regard to health will affect us 22

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### all. 1


### Even now, limits on coal dust exposure 2


### have not been updated in over 40 yea rs. I call 3


### on all our states and national leaders to respond 4


### positively to the proposed carbon rules with 5


### investments in greater energy efficiency, and we 6



### need to move to a carbon free and toxin free 7



### energy development program. 8


### For jobs, for the environm ent we all live 9


### in and for my kids and for your kids, we need to 10


### move swiftly to approve this Clean Power Plan, to 11


### slow down our carbon pollution and to make sure 12


### dirty energy does not cause physical harm to more 13


### generations of Americans. That’s what I ha ve. 14



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 15


### Our next two speakers this afternoon will 16



### be Michael Sauvante and Thomas Shuster. 17


### MR. SAUVANTE: Good afternoon, my name is 18



### Michael Sauvante. I’m the executive director of 19



### a small think tank called National Common wealth 20


### Group. It focuses on economic development 21



### research. 22

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### What I’d like to talk about today is the 1


### potential impact with these proposals with 2


### respect to economic development, which is the 3


### area that we’ve been concentrating on. And 4


### before explaining wha t it was that we have come 5


### to the conclusion of, I’d like to take just a 6


### couple of quick minute s to give you some of my 7



### bona fi des. 8



### I am a 35 plus year entrepreneur out of 9


### Silicon Valley, San Francisco Bay area. In 10


### Silicon Valley terms I’m called a start up jockey. 11


### I’m a serial entrepreneur, I’ve started more than 12


### a half a dozen business, and to give you a feel 13


### for the expertise in that space that in the late 14


### 90's, I wound up being brought into the Hewlett 15


### Packard Headquarters and working with them to 16



### hel p to try and put together the first corporate 17


### incubator in Silicon Valley to try and develop 18


### new ventures out of the technologies coming out 19



### of HP labs, and that attracted so much attention, 20


### I got recruited for a custom PhD around the whole 21



### concept of new venture creation of companies. 22

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### I got impatient with the pace of things 1


### in a large Fortune 50 company and decided to go 2



### back to my entrepreneurial , you know, roots, and 3


### did so, started a couple of high tech companies. 4



### And then from there, in 2008 I made a shift and 5


### launched the National Commonwealth Group as just 6


### a small private non

- profit think tank focused on 7


### economic development issues. 8


### And of course, that was right as the 9


### economy tanked, and that given the background 10



### that I had and the colleagues th at I pulled 11


### together with that, that we started looking at 12


### what could possibly be done in the way of 13


### economic development issues throughout the 14


### country. And for those who may be familiar with 15


### something that’s come out of the White House here 16


### in the past s everal years, the White House teamed 17



### with the Kauffman Foundation and AOL and created 18


### a Startup America organization. 19



### And I want to refer to the Kauffman 20


### Foundation and a study they did several years 21


### back where when it came to job creation in this 22

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### count ry, they looked at all the major different 1


### sectors from the standpoint of, you know, 2


### establishing new jobs, the loss of jobs, the net 3


### new job creation, and there was only one group 4



### that came out as the one that had, over the past 5


### several decades, net new j obs. And that was 6


### small businesses and, more particularly, what 7


### they referred to as startups, which they defined 8


### as companies that were five years or younger. 9



### So, you know, that gave us, you know, 10


### kind of the marching orders to look at the idea 11



### of small companies as the opportunity space for 12


### economic development and job creations throughout 13



### the country. And anybody who knows small 14


### businesses know that even the very largest, you 15



### know, the HPs of the world and the Microsofts and 16



### so on, all start as small e nterprises. And the 17


### vast majority of small enterprises never get 18


### beyond the main street, you know, small business 19


### community, but that

-- that constituency 20


### represents 52 percent of all the jobs in the 21


### United States right now. 22

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### And so we started exploring t he idea of 1


### what could the roughly 40,000 identifiable 2


### communities throughout the country to develop new 3


### businesses and economic development and new jobs 4



### within their communities, rather than the idea of 5


### large macro solutions, their micro

- solutions done 6



### at each and every community. And in 7


### investigating all of the different industries and 8


### market spaces, et cetera, what we discovered was 9



### that there were two areas that represented the 10


### most wide open space for brand new businesses to 11



### be created within each and every community that 12


### would not represent competitive businesses. 13



### Like if I start another restaurant, I’m 14


### competing against somebody else who’s already got 15


### an existing restaurant. But if the town has no 16



### solar contractor, for example, that represents a 17



### b rand new, you know, business concept. And the 18


### two key areas that we determined where there was 19


### the greatest wide open space was in the energy 20


### space and in a highly overlapping area was the 21



### local foods movement. 22

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### Anybody who is at all familiar with the 1



### adv ancement of the cost of energy in the country, 2


### the large agribusiness systems have become very 3


### cost uncompetitive, uncompetitive in comparison 4


### to local grown food. And there is an entire 5



### ecosystem around local foods, and they overlap 6



### the energy space cons iderably. So those 7


### represent two areas where all communities have 8


### the opportunity to create many new businesses and 9


### many new jobs. 10



### So I’ll put

-- I just signed up today, 11


### so I’m going to have to, you know, put this in 12


### writing for you to follow up, but I thank you 13


### very much for the opportunity to share that basic 14


### perspective and those concepts that if we want to 15


### look at dealing with this energy space and clean 16


### energy production, that that’s where we have some 17


### of the greatest opportunity. And especially in 18


### energy space, it’s generation, conservation and 19


### efficiency. 20



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 21



### MR. SAUVANTE: Thank you. 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: We very much look forward 1


### to your written comments as well. 2



### MR. SAUVANTE: Thank you. 3



### MR. SHUSTER: Good afternoo n. My name is 4



### Tom Shuster and I live at 605 23rd Street in 5


### Windber, Pennsylvania. I represent the Sierra 6



### Club, which has over 24,000 members in 7


### Pennsylvania, and I also represent my wife, and 8


### especially my three

- year

- old daughter, who is 9


### still too young to speak for herself, but who 10


### will have to deal with the consequences of the 11


### decisions that the grownups will make over the 12



### next several years for better or worse. 13



### We fully support the proposal by EPA to 14


### eliminate carbon pollution from existing power 15



### pla nts for the first time in history. The cost 16


### of failing to adequately deal with climate 17


### disruption caused mainly by carbon pollution are 18



### immense. 19


### By the end of this century, the northeast 20


### region is expected to see an additional 57 days 21



### per year, nearly tw o full months of temperatures 22

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### over 95 degrees. This will have severe 1



### consequences on our health, our economy and the 2


### infrastructure and natural systems on which we 3



### depend. 4


### Higher average temperature leads to worse 5


### air quality and, in turn, more hospital 6


### admissions and premature deaths, particularly 7


### among children. It leads to the spread of insect 8


### borne diseases that were once only problems in 9


### the tropics. It leads to more frequent intense 10


### storms, which can damage our homes and threaten 11



### our lives with hi gh winds and flooding. 12



### It also threatens our economy. For 13



### example, the ten

- year flood in Allegheny County 14


### costed over eight billion dollars to clean up, 15


### and that’s money that can’t be invested in 16


### growing our regional economy. And these are only 17


### going t o become more severe. 18


### Another example, agriculture currently 19


### employees more people in Pennsylvania than the 20


### extraction of coal, oil and gas combined. And 21


### it’s projected to suffer from the extreme heat, 22

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### droughts and storms and can shed many thousands 1


### of j obs. 2


### These are just examples

-- some examples 3


### of this severe and permanent consequences of 4


### inaction which would dwarf any transitional 5


### impacts of cleaning up carbon pollution. 6


### Fortunately, though, the transition does not need 7



### to be difficult. In fact, P ennsylvania is 8


### already well on its way to meeting the proposed 9


### target. We have energy efficiency requirements 10


### and clean energy requirements that are already on 11


### the books and being implemented that will get us 12



### over one

- third of the way to our proposed targ et. 13


### When we add in coal plant retirements 14


### that have already taken place since 2012, and 15


### additional retirements are conversions to gas 16



### that have already been announced, we’ll be more 17



### than halfway there. 18



### But there is much more we can do to 19


### implement clea n energy and efficiency in 20


### Pennsylvania. Our current annual efficiency 21


### targets are half of what many leading states are 22

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### achieving, and our current Tier I clean energy 1


### target is only eight percent, compared to 20 2



### percent for Maryland, 22 percent for New Je rsey, 3



### and 25 percent for Delaware. 4


### If we simply match the commitments of 5


### other leading states by doubling our commitment 6


### to efficiency, and achieving 20 percent renewable 7



### energy by 2030, we’ll meet over 96 percent of our 8


### proposed carbon reduction target. And that’s 9


### before we even start talking about upgrades to 10



### the power plants, themselves. 11


### Energy efficiency saves us money. 12


### Through the first four years of our energy 13


### efficiency program in Pennsylvania, ratepayers 14


### saw savings of nearly 4.2 billion dollars , equal 15


### to $2.40 saved for every dollar invested, and 16



### we’ve only begun to scratch the surface. 17


### Efficiency investments create jobs 18


### directly, but also boost the broader economy by 19


### putting more spending money in family’s pockets. 20


### Investing in renewable ener gy also saves 21


### us money. Earlier this year a study was 22

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### conducted by PJM, the regional grid operator, on 1


### the impacts of integrating up to 30 percent 2



### renewable energy by 2026. They found that by 3


### using 30 percent solar and wind we would save up 4



### to 16 billion dollars per year on electricity 5


### production because it would replace the least 6


### efficient and most expensive power plants. 7



### It also found that there would be no 8


### significant reliability issues from phasing in 9


### this level of renewable energy, even with curre nt 10



### technology. 11


### Wind and solar also create many more jobs 12


### in natural gas and coal per dollar invested per 13


### megawatt of capacity, and per megawatt hour of 14


### generation. Nationally there are already more 15


### jobs in the wind and solar industry than in coal 16


### mining and coal power generation combined, so the 17


### potential for growth is enormous. 18


### By one estimate, Pennsylvania could 19



### create 500,000 40

- year jobs by transitioning to 20


### 100 percent renewable energy by 2050, which would 21


### be over ten times more jobs than the coal 22

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### i ndustry in the state currently supports. 1


### If we act to limit our carbon pollution, 2


### the coal mining sector will certainly be 3


### impacted. But if we don’t act, everyone else 4


### will be impacted. And that does not mean that we 5


### can neglect mineworkers, their famil ies and 6


### communities like my hometown. We need to commit 7


### to helping them transition just as we have helped 8


### tobacco farming and logging communities 9


### transition in the past. And I’m very confident 10



### that we can do this, but we cannot leave it to 11



### chance. 12



### Fortu nately, this plan provides a great 13


### deal of flexibility in how states meet their 14


### targets and sufficient planning time for 15


### transition. What we simply cannot afford to do, 16


### however, is wait any longer to address climate 17


### change. The longer we wait, the harder the 18



### transition will be and the worse off we will all 19


### be due to climate disruption. But if we begin 20



### now we can still achieve a cleaner, healthier and 21



### more prosperous future. Thank you very much for 22

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### your time. 1



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you both. Our next 2



### two speakers this afternoon will be James Kotcon 3



### and Rene Hernandez. 4


### MR. KOTCON: Thank you. My name is James 5



### Kotcon, K

- o

- t

- c

- o

- n. I reside at 414 Tyrone 6


### Avery Road in Morgantown, West Virginia. As a 7


### West Virginian I know that a significant portion 8



### of my s alary depends on the severance taxes from 9


### our coal mining industry. But I’m here to tell 10


### you today that we need to start taking action on 11



### climate now. 12


### I am a born and raised dairy farmer. I 13



### know, and all of the research shows that 14



### temperatures over 90 t o 95 degrees significantly 15


### suppress milk production in cows. This is a real 16


### impact on my family’s income. 17


### I don’t believe that EPA’s cost analysis 18


### has fully incorporated some of these kinds of 19


### agricultural impacts and I urge you to do a more 20


### careful job of fully analyzing all of the costs 21


### of climate change and the cost of inaction and 22

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### doing nothing. 1



### Second

-- and I have four points today 2



### -- I currently serve as the Energy Committee 3


### Chair for the Western Chapter of the Sierra Club. 4



### Last year we put to gether a report conducted by 5


### Optimal Energy which identified as much as five 6


### to 6,000 jobs per year created through 7


### investments in energy efficiency by our 8



### utilities. 9


### Having reviewed EPA’s Clean Power Plan, I 10


### would urge you to increase the energy effici ency 11


### component of those four building blocks. It is 12


### the best way to reduce electric power bills and 13


### create jobs, and clean up the environment. 14


### Third, EPA currently uses estimates for 15


### upstream methane emissions from natural gas 16


### production that appear to b e grossly 17


### underestimating the impact from natural gas 18


### production. The expectation that we can simply 19


### transition to natural gas appears to undercount 20


### these upstream methane emissions, and I would 21


### urge EPA to increase and more accurately define 22

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### the climate impacts from relying on more natural 1


### gas instead of efficiency renewable sources and 2



### other low carbon sources. 3


### Finally, I’ve been fishing for a long 4


### time, and I believe that if we can protect West 5


### Virginia for trout, the rest of the state will 6



### probably do okay. All of the climate models 7


### suggest that our state fish, the brook trout, is 8


### going to disappear if we do not act aggressively. 9


### But I think this is more important than 10


### just my recreational activities. Trout fishing 11


### is very important to me, but my ki ds are more 12


### important. Much of the debate over these rules 13


### seems to be an issue between jobs for the current 14


### generation versus the environment for the next 15


### generation. And I think that as a policy choice 16



### the EPA needs to look out for the next 17


### generation. This generation will take care of 18



### itself. 19


### I’ll be submitting more detailed written 20


### comments in the future, but I thank you for the 21


### chance to put a human face on what this is and to 22

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### show that there are people in West Virginia who 1


### support EPA’s climate pl an. Thank you. 2



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 3



### MS. HERNANDEZ: Good afternoon. My name 4


### is Rene Hernandez. I live in Morgantown, West 5


### Virginia. I’ve been a resident there for the 6



### past 40 years. I moved there from the Jersey 7


### Shore. I was a hippy h omesteader. 8


### But in the course of my homesteading, and 9


### not knowing anything about farming, I moved on 10


### and went to college and became a registered 11


### nurse. And it’s from that prospective that I 12



### would like to share what I have seen and what I 13


### have experience d in my own body due to pollution. 14



### I’ve worked anywhere from newborn 15


### intensive care units all the way to bone marrow 16


### transplant units and other units of oncology in 17


### the course of my career. I worked in the newborn 18



### intensive care unit in Charleston, West Virginia. 19


### It’s well known as Chemical Valley. And 20


### unfortunately, I took care of many babies with 21


### congenital defects and horrible, horrible defects 22

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### that were not only life threatening and 1


### devastating to their health, but devastating to 2


### their appearance al so. 3



### I took care of young men and old men who 4


### were dying of the black lung disease, which I 5


### don’t know if you’ve ever had any experience in 6


### taking care of anyone who is gasping for breath. 7


### It’s a horrible experience, and when you are in 8


### the midst of doing that, of course, you put aside 9


### your feelings and administer care to those poor 10


### suffering people. Because all you want to do is 11


### stop their suffering. 12


### I took care of people in the bone marrow 13


### transplant unit who were suffering from many 14


### myriad amounts of cancers, from breast cancer, 15


### lymphomas, leukemias. I took care of them as 16


### best as I could and they were desperate to live. 17



### Some of them survived, some of them, 18



### unfortunately, developed graft versus host 19



### disease, and that’s one of the worst deaths I’ve 20



### ev er seen. It’s horrible. 21


### I had one young man who was 22, his skin 22

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### just sloughed off of him completely. No amount 1


### of pain medication would stop his suffering and I 2



### cried and cried. 3


### The people of West Virginia have suffered 4



### for so many years, and yet th ey’re resilient 5


### people and they’re loving people. But quite 6


### frankly, I think some of them are rather confused 7


### and have been kind of damped down into a 8


### mentality that there’s nothing else we can do but 9


### mine coal. But, indeed, there is. There’s many 10


### thing s that people can do. We must, we must turn 11


### to clean energy. Our world is dying before our 12



### very eyes. 13


### Just today I saw that our jet stream has 14


### gotten kind of wonky and weak, and scientists 15


### have said they’ve never, ever, ever seen it do 16



### that before. 17



### A nd there is so many things that we’ve 18


### never, ever seen before that pollution has done 19


### to our beautiful world. I plead with you to 20


### maintain and uphold this carbon rule and to 21


### please work on strengthening further rules that 22

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### will protect my children and my g randchildren, 1



### whom I love very much. Thank you for the 2


### opportunity to speak with you. 3



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 4


### Thanks for coming. Our next two speakers this 5


### afternoon will be Jessie Shumacher and Barry 6



### Lewis. 7



### MS. SHUMACHER: Hello. I am Jessie 8


### Shumacher, Policy Analyst at the Keystone Energy 9


### Efficiency Alliance. 10


### KEEA, the Keystone Energy Efficiency 11



### Alliance is a non

- profit corporation dedicated to 12


### promoting energy efficiency and advanced energy 13


### industries in Pennsylvania. You’ll hear later 14



### this afternoon from our executive director, Brian 15



### Kauffman, as well. 16



### KEEA supports the Clean Power Plan as a 17


### commonsense solution for energy needs, and KEEA 18


### supports the plan’s inclusion of demand side 19


### energy efficiency as one of the four major to ols 20


### available to states to achieve pollution 21



### reduction. 22

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### Brian is going to talk later about the 1


### job creating impacts of demand side energy 2


### efficiency investments in Pennsylvania. My 3


### testimony is to compliment that with an 4


### expression that Pennsylvania is r eady for these 5


### jobs, and Pennsylvania is ready for this plan. 6


### Here in Pennsylvania we have been 7


### administering demand side energy efficiency 8


### programs under Pennsylvania Act 129 since 2009. 9


### And Act 129 has given us a framework upon which 10


### Pennsylvania can b uild, and given us experience 11


### that provides insight we can extend to the EPA. 12


### Demand side energy efficiency has proven 13


### to be an effective way to produce carbon 14


### pollution associated with electricity generation 15


### in our state. From 2009 to 2013 Pennsylvania 16


### saved more than five million megawatt hours of 17


### electricity, which equated to almost 18



### three

- and

- a

- half million tons of avoided carbon 19



### dioxide emissions. 20


### During the same period demand side energy 21


### efficiency provided a great benefit to ratepayers 22

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### who received approximately $2.40 in benefits for 1


### every one dollar invested in energy efficiency. 2



### It was also the lowest cost energy 3


### resource available to our retail electricity 4


### customers during that time. The residential 5


### retail rate of electricity was approximately 74 6


### percent higher in 2013 than the retail

-- than 7



### the cost to a retail residential customer of 8


### demand side energy efficiency on a per kilowatt 9



### basis. 10


### Brian is going to talk later about how 11


### demand side energy efficiency can create jobs in 12


### Pennsylvania. Th e people who are here doing 13


### these jobs now have built a vibrant and powerful 14


### implementation framework under Act 129, so we’re 15


### ready for this Clean Power Plan. 16


### Act 129 provides Pennsylvania with plug 17


### and play implementation for achievement under the 18



### plan . And we’re able to scale up very quickly, 19



### much faster than EPA has allowed for in its 20


### efficiency

-- energy efficiency potential 21



### estimate in the Clean Power Plan. 22

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### We can likely, therefore, achieve 1


### significantly more cost effective energy 2


### efficiency than EPA estimates. Pennsylvania is 3


### particularly proud of the work that our Public 4


### Utility Commission has done to provide certainty 5


### to utilities, to ratepayers, to home and business 6



### owners and to investors. 7


### Pennsylvania has developed and tested one 8



### of the nat ion’s most robust frameworks for 9



### measurement and verification for demand side 10


### energy efficiency measures. 11


### This has really established the 12


### credibility of our Act 129 programs. And the PUC 13



### has also assembled a technical reference manual 14



### that attributes sav ings values to a myriad of 15


### energy efficiency technologies in which home and 16



### business owners can invest. 17


### This has really given a lot of clarity to 18


### investors, be they large or small on the 19



### household level. KEEA encourages EPA to adopt a 20



### framework or to fac ilitate states use of existing 21


### rigorous frameworks that similarly establish 22

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### credibility and give clarity to the benefits of 1


### myriad demand side energy efficiency investments 2


### that are possible. 3


### KEEA supports this Clean Power Plan and 4



### encourages EPA to enabl e and support state’s 5


### deployment of demand side energy efficiency to 6


### meet the plan’s pollution reduction goals. 7


### Energy efficiency is the fastest, 8


### cheapest, most economically beneficial way to 9


### reduce carbon pollution, and KEEA is pleased that 10



### EPA has put f orth a plan to reduce carbon 11


### pollution and include a demand side energy 12


### efficiency in that. 13


### Efficiency can do more in Pennsylvania 14



### than EPA expects, and KEEA looks forward to 15


### helping Pennsylvania achieve the goals set forth 16


### by EPA in the Clean Power Plan. Thank you. 17



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 18


### MR. LEWIS: My name is Barry Lewis, 19



### B

- a

- r

- r

- y, L

- e

- w

- i

- s, and I am honored to be here 20


### today representing the Reverend Dr. Jane Ellen 21


### Nickel, who was scheduled to speak at this time, 22

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### but was unable to be her e. And I have her 1



### statement and will offer it in a moment. 2


### First, let me tell you more about who I 3



### am. I’m a retired United Methodist Pastor, 4


### retiring from the Sewickley United Methodist 5


### Church in 2006. I am a Pittsburgh native, very 6



### much aware of the air and water quality issue for 7


### this region. 8



### I am aware of the successes that have 9



### occurred since the 1940's. But as the science 10



### shows us, there is much more to be done. The 11


### European countries know this. Last summer I was 12


### in Germany and Holland and saw an abundance of 13


### solar panels and wind generators. 14



### We, at our house, also have 34 solar 15



### panels on our roof that have generated 23,140 16


### kilowatt hours in almost four years. 17



### Now I will be Dr. Jane Ellen Nickel, a 18


### United Methodist Clergy, also Chaplain of 19



### Allegheny College. So these are her words. 20


### “As a person of faith, I wholeheartedly 21


### support the Clean Power Plan as an important step 22

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### to curb global climate change and secure a more 1



### sustainable future. I believe that we have 2


### drastically altered the wor ld God created, and 3


### that those least able to cope with those effects 4



### will suffer the most.” 5



### Jane Ellen refers here to the Genesis 6


### story of creation and the human’s responsibility 7


### to care for it. With her permission I will 8


### include here a teaching from a dear mentor, 9



### Biblical scholar, the late Dr. Harold Beck, 10



### Professor of Old Testament at Boston School of 11



### Theology. 12


### When he said the Bible begins with a 13


### story of a garden, Eden, the Babylonian word for 14


### garden. It ends with a story of a garden, 15



### Paradise, t he Persian word for garden. What 16


### happens in between is the human story, for better 17



### or for worse. 18



### And Jane Ellen continues. “Yet we have 19


### ravaged our earthly garden in extracting fossil 20


### fuels, and in burning them have filled the air 21



### with carbon, arsenic, mercury, sulfur dioxide and 22

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### other pollutants, altering the climate and 1


### poisoning the air that we breathe.” 2


### “Children, elderly, and those in poor 3



### health are most vulnerable to asthma and other 4


### breathing problems. Likewise, people on the 5


### margins of society will be most affected by 6


### rising sea levels, severe storms and other 7


### effects of climate change.” 8


### “Seeing our weakest members suffer for 9


### the actions of us all is a moral problem. As a 10


### native West Virginian and current resident of 11


### Pennsylvania, I am keenly aware of the jobs in 12


### coal mining and other sectors of the fossil fuel 13


### industry that will be lost as we transition to 14



### renewable energy.” 15


### “However, another injustice is 16


### perpetuated when those in the coal industry 17


### proclaim that coal is the energy of the f uture 18


### and that it can be burned cleanly with no harm to 19


### our planet or our children.” 20


### “While coal has a long and important 21


### history in providing energy in this country, the 22

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### future belongs to renewable fuels such as winds, 1



### solar and geothermal, and to energy efficient 2


### technologies that reduce our dependence on fossil 3



### fuels.” 4


### “Our country’s genius for invention can 5


### drive a transition to a more sustainable energy. 6


### Rather than using scare tactics and propaganda, 7


### coal companies should take the lead in creatin g a 8


### green economy and providing new jobs for those 9


### who will be displaced.” 10


### “Rather than blaming the Obama 11



### administration, miners and their families should 12


### demand that their industry and their states 13


### address the reality that coal’s best days are 14



### behind u s and that it is time to transition to 15


### cleaner renewable fuels. It’s time to stop 16


### blowing up our mountains and blow up our business 17



### as usual. The EPA Clean Power Plan is an 18


### important step in making that a reality.” She 19



### ends there. 20


### And may I conclude wi th this wise 21


### statement I often quoted throughout my active 22

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### ministry, a statement from native Americans. 1


### Before making a decision they would ask, how will 2


### this decision affect those living seven 3


### generations from now. I can only imagine how 4



### clean our water , rivers, lakes and air would be 5


### if we were as wise. Thank you for this 6


### opportunity. 7



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 8


### Okay, I apologize to these two speakers. 9


### I flipped the last cards. You should have been 10


### next, so it’s my fault that you’re going n ow. 11


### Joylette Portlock and Brian Kauffman. 12



### MS. PORTLOCK: Hello. Good afternoon and 13


### thank you very much for organizing this forum 14



### about the Clean Power Plan. I’m Dr. Joylette 15



### Portlock, and among my many hats, I’m the 16



### President of the non

- profit organizat ion, 17


### Communitopia. We do climate communication in a 18


### fond engaging way, most prominently through our 19



### online series, Don’t Just Sit There, Do 20


### Something, which blends climate science news and 21


### empowers viewers with action. 22

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### Our organization is based here in 1



### P ittsburgh. Though, obviously, global warming is 2


### not something that just affects us here now, but 3



### rather affects everyone everywhere, from now 4


### until the long horizon of time. 5


### There is a lot to cover, so hopefully 6


### making You Tube videos may be better at speaking 7



### in five

- minute increments. 8



### So I saw coverage of the Pro Coal Event 9


### yesterday, and there are protesters outside, and 10


### I have to say it is sort of refreshing to be 11


### celebrating other government action rather than 12


### the one staging a protest. But you k now, I’m not 13


### actually a big fan of the us versus them framing 14


### here, because we all want the same things. 15


### We want economic prospects. We want a 16


### bright, healthy future for our kids. We want 17


### stability and security. And here’s the secret. 18


### By acting on cli mate change, it’s not just the 19



### environmental movement that wins. Gains are 20


### possible on all of these fronts. 21



### The Clean Power Plan is an essential 22

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### critical tool in the fight against manmade 1


### climate change. EPA is finally doing what 2


### Congress established it to do and what the 3


### Supreme Court mandated be done under President 4


### Bush, by regulating carbon pollution through the 5


### power of the Clean Air Act. 6


### EPA is to be commended for taking its job 7


### seriously and beginning the long task of reducing 8


### our carbon pollutio n levels to something 9


### approximating safe. 10


### The plan aims to reduce pollution 30 11



### percent below 2005 levels by 2030. The 12


### scientific community has agreed that to avoid the 13


### worst effects of climate change, we need an 80 14


### percent reduction from 1990 levels by 2 050. This 15



### rule is, therefore, not an end solution, but the 16


### beginning. The first of the real world policies 17


### we need to transition us to a better place. 18


### One thing I’ve noticed is that when you 19


### start talking about climate solutions, real 20


### policy that makes a difference, you start hearing 21



### a lot of can’ts. Now, I don’t know about anyone 22

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### here, but can’t was a four letter word in my 1


### parent’s household when I was growing up. 2


### Everything I know about America says that 3


### we can do this. The spirit of innovation, 4



### op timism, and plain old willingness to roll up 5



### our sleeves and do the hard work that needs to be 6


### done will triumph over fear. And by the way, 7


### that’s backed up by 83 percent of Americans 8


### across the political spectrum who want the U.S. 9



### to make an effort to re duce global warming, even 10



### if those efforts come with an economic cost. 11


### No one is trying to say that change is 12



### easy. Do we need to make sure that our workers 13


### aren’t left behind and that the clean energy 14


### transition works for everything? Absolutely. 15



### But we are on the path to unthinkable 16


### damage from climate change. Yes, the natural 17


### world, but also to billions of real people’s 18


### lives, a world plagued by rising seas and violent 19


### storms, parched farmland and forests on fire. If 20


### you think this is going to cos t too much right 21


### now, just wait. 22

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### Change may be hard, but sometimes it’s 1


### necessary. And a world where the air is safe to 2


### breathe and fuel is plentiful and clean sounds a 3



### lot easier to me. 4


### One of the most remarkable things about 5



### the Clean Power Plan is its flexibility with 6


### state specific targets for overall pollution and 7


### advice for renewable energy and energy 8


### efficiency, and leaving it up to the states to 9


### craft plans. I have to commend EPA for doing a 10


### truly remarkable amount of listening before, 11


### during and after putting this plan together. 12


### Pennsylvania, a coal state with lots of 13


### natural gas development, is going to craft a plan 14



### that won’t look like Idaho’s or California’s. 15


### The Clean Power Plan gives us the opportunity to 16


### reduce carbon pollution and bu ild new energy 17


### industries while working together to ensure 18


### economic, environmental and health gains for all. 19


### Again, by acting on climate change, it is 20


### not just the environmental movement that wins, 21


### it’s the person looking for a job that finds one 22

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### in the c lean energy economy who wins. It’s the 1



### kids with asthma who win. It’s all the future 2


### people who will look back at all of us and say 3


### thank you, and now what were you people thinking? 4


### At the end of the day there is only one 5


### side. There is only one collec tive future. This 6


### rule puts us one step closer to pulling or 7


### collective fannies out of the fire. So I support 8


### this rule and every step that we will need to 9


### take after this was finalized to back away from 10


### the precipice and towards all the good things a 11



### st able climate and a clean energy future will 12


### give us because I’m on humanity’s side. Thank 13



### you. 14


### MR. KAUFFMAN: Good morning. My name is 15



### Brian Kauffman, B

- r

- i

- a

- n, K

- a

- u

- f

- f

- m

- a

- n, of 16


### Philadelphia. I am Executive Director of the 17


### Keystone Energy Efficien cy Alliance, a trade 18



### association of 65 businesses and individuals 19


### working in the energy efficiency industry here in 20


### Pennsylvania. 21


### We have member companies here in 22

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### Pittsburgh, along with cities like Erie, and 1


### Scranton and Philly, and plenty of smaller town s 2



### as well. 3


### As you have heard from our Policy 4


### Analyst, Pennsylvania is ready, and our decision 5


### makers and utilities are ready to just use our 6


### current energy efficiency policies and connect 7


### and plug and play, essentially, with the Clean 8



### Power Plan. 9



### KEEA supports this Clean Power Plan as a 10


### commonsense solution. Empower states to flexibly 11


### meet these greenhouse gas reduction goals that 12


### are important for our economy, national security 13


### and public health. KEEA, in particular, supports 14


### the plan’s inclusion of demand side energy 15


### efficiency as one of the four major pollution 16


### reducing tools available to the states. 17


### First and foremost, the EPA plan can be a 18



### boon, a source of tremendous strength to our 19


### state’s economy and create jobs. And the jobs 20



### discussion is so mething I want to add to today. 21



### First and foremost, this is not an act 22

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### that some workers will be negative

-- can be 1


### negatively displaced by this policy, and I 2


### encourage the EPA to very strongly consider how 3



### they treat all aspects of our economy. 4



### And en ergy efficiency alone can’t move 5



### our economy forward. As you have heard from 6



### others, clean coal, natural gas, renewables also 7


### present solutions to climate change. And as a 8


### net energy exporter, Pennsylvania’s economy can 9


### benefit from continuing our compet itive advantage 10


### in energy generation. 11


### KEEA supports Pennsylvania and other 12


### states taking advantage of this range of 13


### solutions. However, demand side energy 14


### efficiency, using less energy to perform the same 15


### energy services presents a key area that can 16



### supp ort our economy and reduce greenhouse gases. 17


### Pennsylvania’s residents, businesses and industry 18


### spend hundreds of millions of dollars each year 19


### on energy efficiency investments because they 20



### make business sense. 21



### But more can be done. For instance, Rich 22

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### Se lverian, our CFO and COO of MaGrann Associates, 1


### a national company, he’s president of our 2


### organization, recently talked about a project his 3


### firm had done. Energy efficiency, he said, can 4


### save people and business a lot of money. 5


### Recently we did a projec t at a 321 unit 6


### apartment building upgrading equipment that will 7


### save the customer an estimated $39,000 off their 8


### electricity bills and $150,000 off their natural 9


### gas bills every year, a 17 percent reduction in 10


### their electricity bill and 55 percent in thei r 11


### gas bill. This is real money and has the 12


### potential to actually positively innovate our 13



### economy. 14


### In particular, energy efficiency can have 15


### a myriad of other benefits from helping support 16


### field diversity, improve reliability, reducing 17



### everyone’s customer utility bills, and lastly, it 18


### can create and has created jobs. 19



### And much can be said about all these 20


### points. KEEA has submitted written testimony 21


### today detailing all of them as well as offering 22

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### some recommendations to EPA on how the proposed 1



### plan could b e improved. 2


### But most importantly today, the Clean 3


### Power Plan will create jobs in Pennsylvania. We 4


### have already seen the job creation impact of 5


### demand side energy efficiency. Pennsylvania’s 6


### Governor, Tom Corbett, and his energy plan 7


### released in January s tated a booking study that 8


### reported that Pennsylvania has the fifth highest 9


### number of energy and resource efficiency jobs in 10


### the nation with over 42,000 employees. 11



### And another recent study showed that Act 12


### 129 our energy efficiency resource standard here 13



### i n PA may have created over 10,000 jobs. 14


### In addition, looking forward, the 15


### American Counsel for an Energy Efficient Economy 16


### projects that almost 8,000 new efficiency jobs 17



### could be created by 2020 and almost 17,000 by 18


### 2030 if Pennsylvania utilizes demand side 19



### reductions to meet the Clean Power Plan. 20


### Our businesses, we have 65 entrepreneurs 21


### and businesses who can actually speak to these. 22

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### We work in a range of functions from 1


### construction, to manufacturing, to finance, to 2


### engineering and computer programmin g. These jobs 3


### are attractive because young Pennsylvanians, the 4



### future of our economy see them as ways to create 5


### opportunities for themselves and also rise 6


### throughout their careers in these fields. These 7


### jobs can be accessed by folks graduating high 8



### schoo l and folks graduating from PhD’s. 9


### I know my time is out, so thank you very 10


### much for this opportunity and keep up what you’re 11


### doing. 12



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 13



### Thanks to both of you. 14


### Our next two speakers this afternoon will 15



### be Sally Wenzel and Monica Morrill. 16


### MS. WENZEL: Thank you. Hi. My name is 17



### Dr. Sally Wenzel, W

- e

- n

- z

- e

- l. I’m director of 18


### the University of Pittsburgh Asthma Institute at 19


### UPMC and the Subsection Chief of Allergy in the 20


### Pulmonary Allergy and Critical Care Medicine 21



### Div ision at the University of Pittsburgh. 22

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### But today I’m actually speaking to you on 1


### behalf of the American Thoracic Society. The 2


### American Thoracic Society is a very large medical 3


### professional society of over 14,000 physicians, 4



### scientists, nurses and allied health 5


### professionals dedicated to the detection, 6


### prevention, treatment and the cure of respiratory 7


### critical care and sleep related diseases. 8


### The American Thoracic Society today 9


### wishes to express our very strong support for 10


### EPA’s proposed carbon emission standards for 11



### power plants. 12


### The leadership of the ATS believes 13


### strongly that the research documenting the 14


### reality of climate change is comprehensive and 15


### very compelling. The evidence supporting 16


### anthropogenic contribution to climate change is 17



### equally cle ar. For these reasons the ATS 18


### support’s EPA’s proposals to establish limits for 19


### carbon emissions from existing power plants. 20


### The ATS, itself, recently published a 21


### workshop report on the likely respiratory health 22

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### effects of climate change, climate chang e, 1


### itself, including longer and earlier growing 2


### seasons leading to longer and more intense 3



### allergy seasons and the consequences thereof. 4


### Warmer average temperatures, increasing 5


### ozone and particulate matter pollution is of 6


### concern to all patients with all types of 7


### respiratory disease. 8



### Heat stress from heat waves will increase 9


### morbidity, especially in urban hot spots. For 10


### example, the 1995 heat wave in Chicago was 11


### estimated to have killed about 750 people. 12


### Changing climates will also likely impact 13



### vector borne diseases and potentially potentiate 14


### their spread. 15


### Intense storms will put pressure on 16


### healthcare systems. For example, the evacuation 17


### and temporary shutdown of Bellevue Hospital in 18


### New York for Hurricane Sandy, and the citywide 19



### evacuation and th e devastation of New Orleans 20



### from Hurricane Katrina. 21


### My area of research and clinical 22

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### expertise is asthma, so I will focus on how 1


### climate change will effect patients with asthma. 2


### About 25 million patients in America have the 3



### disease called asthma, and ne arly half suffer an 4



### asthma attack on an annual basis. 5



### Asthma attacks are frequently caused by 6


### environmental exposures, including pollens, 7


### molds, ozone and particulate matter. Climate 8


### change will increase our exposures to these 9


### environmental triggers for asthma attacks. 10


### Ground level ozone and particulate matter 11


### are formed when heat, sunlight and precursor 12


### pollutants combine in the air to create air 13


### pollution. 14


### As the average global temperature rises, 15


### conditions leading to ozone and particulate 16



### matter ai r pollution are going to increase, 17


### leading to even more air pollution. 18


### The additional air pollution will trigger 19


### additional asthma attacks, emergency room visits, 20


### missed school, work days, et cetera, as well as 21


### hospitalizations and even death. In short, 22

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### climate change will exacerbate air pollution, 1


### directly impacting the lives of about 25 million 2


### people who suffer with asthma. 3



### U.S. power plants net nearly one

- third of 4


### all the carbon pollution emissions in the U.S. 5


### And in fact, felt particularly strongly here in 6


### Western Pennsylvania. 7


### They also emit other dangerous pollutants 8


### like mercury, ozone and particulate matter. The 9


### emitted power plant pollution has a measurable 10


### and substantial impact, negative impact on 11


### patient health, particularly in patients wi th 12


### asthma, cardiovascular and other respiratory 13



### diseases. 14


### But all is not gloom and doom. A recent 15


### study by scientists at Syracuse and Harvard 16


### showed that cleaning up carbon pollution will, in 17


### fact, clean up other forms of pollution as well. 18



### This means t hat we can have healthy air today 19


### while we take steps to address climate change for 20



### the future. 21


### Effective limits on carbon pollution are 22

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### estimated to reduce about 775,000 tons annually 1


### of coal pollutants like sulfur dioxide, nitrogen 2


### oxide and mercury, an d to decrease ozone and 3


### particulate matter, all serious health hazards 4



### that increase the risk for asthma attacks, affect 5


### fetal development and contribute to premature 6



### death. 7


### That’s why it’s important for the 8


### environmental protection agency to move forward 9


### with strong limits on carbon pollution. When 10


### implemented, this plan will reduce carbon 11


### emissions by 30 percent from the 2005 levels and 12


### bring health and climate related benefits of an 13



### estimated 55 million to 93 billion dollars, 14


### including avoiding 2,700 t o over 6,000 premature 15



### deaths, and 140 to 150,000 asthma attacks in kids 16



### alone. 17


### Reducing carbon emissions will improve 18


### air quality now while addressing climate change 19


### in the future. Thank you, and I’d be happy to 20


### address questions. 21



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank y ou very much. 22

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### MS. MORRILL: My name is Monica Morrill, 1



### and I would first like to state for the record 2


### that my statement can only be quoted if my entire 3


### statement is quoted. Many will understand that 4



### the people have been quoted out of context and 5



### the mean ing twisted. If you insist on quoting a 6


### partial version of my statement today, you must 7


### first obtain my express written consent. 8


### My name is Monica Morrill, M

- o

- r

- r

- i

- l

- l. 9


### When asked what organization I belong to, well, 10



### I’m a citizen of the United States . It is for 11


### this group for whom I speak. 12


### I have a degree in Environmental 13


### Economics and Policy from the University of 14


### California at Berkeley. I have written 15


### extensively about policy or regulation that 16


### influences geography. Some in my family tease me 17



### en dearingly for being a tree hugger. And yes, I 18



### love trees, but I also love people. 19


### I know people who work in and around the 20


### coal industry who are afraid to come forward due 21



### to fears of retaliation from the state of federal 22

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### government institutions, namely the DEP and the 1



### EPA. 2


### Just yesterday I spoke with someone who 3



### was laid off from his 23

- year coal industry job 4


### who is in serious depression. He said he has 5



### never seen it this bad in the coal business. 6


### There is undoubtedly a war on coal by the EPA and 7



### the White House. 8


### I will briefly cover three phases that 9


### have brought us to this juncture of the proposed 10



### Clean Power Plan. How we get here, where we are 11



### now and what the citizens of America can do to 12


### prepare for the crises ahead. 13



### Number one, how we got here

. 14


### Unfortunately, many environmental regulations 15



### have been founded on a lack of facts. The EPA 16


### claims on its document, quote, “There are 17


### currently no national limits on carbon,” unquote, 18


### and implies that carbon is just as toxic as 19


### arsenic or mercury. 20



### Th is is absurd. CO2 is just as important 21


### to a life as oxygen, water and sunshine. Plants 22

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### need CO2 and plants can’t photosynthesize below 1


### 150 parts per million. A level too low would 2



### destroy our planet. 3


### During the depths of the last Ice Age 4



### when the cold oceans lowered the atmospheric 5


### concentration down to 180 parts per million, 6



### trees suffered from carbon dioxide starvation. 7



### Life above sea level almost died out due to the 8



### lack of carbon dioxide. 9



### Now, some claim that the current 10



### concentration is still dan gerously low, and the 11


### CO2 level would have to increase fivefold just to 12


### get back to the level it was when the flowering 13


### plants first emerged. 14


### The higher the CO2 concentration, the 15


### safer all life on this planet will be. 16


### Furthermore, the relationship betwe en the 17


### concentration and heating is log arrhythmic, not 18



### arithmetic. For CO2, that means the first 20 19


### parts per million has the same amount of heating 20


### effect as the next 400 parts per million. CO2's 21


### heating effect is real but minuscule. 22

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### That effect would be lost in the natural 1


### variation of climate. On top of all that, our 2


### climate is cooling. Climate models that the EPA 3


### relies upon have been proven wrong by the fact 4



### that the temperature of the planet has been flat 5


### for the last eighteen years. 6



### The EPA wr ites that the

-- sorry. That 7


### the quote, “average temperatures have risen in 8


### most states since 1901, with seven of the top ten 9


### warmest years on record occurring since 1998,” 10


### unquote. Again, the EPA is incorrect. 11



### If you look at NOAA’s research and the 12



### we ll positioned U.S. climate stations all over 13


### our country, our national temperature has 14


### actually cooled between January 2005 until now, 15



### even the deep oceans have cooled. 16



### It is time to set aside the climate 17


### models and start again. One of my favorite 18



### exampl e, because I love history and research, we 19


### can even look to the past wisdom, before the EPA, 20


### before politics started meddling with the 21



### weather, and Government grants and observe what 22

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### Harvard scientist, Dr. Harlow Shapley wrote in a 1



### book entitled Climatic C hange in 1953. This is 2


### from the fifth printing in 1970. 3


### “Why climate changes and what it changes 4


### due to the earth and living things is the central 5


### subject of this book. Man is apparently the only 6



### animal that can affect climate and he does it 7



### through c utting down the forests, pouring dust 8


### and gas into the atmosphere from his factory 9


### chimneys and setting forest fires.” 10



### “But these are trivial contributions 11


### compared with what the big volcanos can do and 12


### what is accomplished by the rise of mountain 13



### range s in rerouting the air currents. And the 14


### prime mover turns out to be a star. The sun. At 15


### a distance of 93 million miles. It is apparently 16



### not absolutely steady, and one of the results 17



### seems to be the reoccurrence of Ice Ages,” 18



### unquote. 19



### The EPA’s propo sed emission regulations 20


### are unnecessary. They will prove to be very 21


### foolish and extraordinarily expensive. Even 22

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### worse, the EPA’s proposed rules will have the 1


### effect of making us much poorer for no good 2



### reason. 3



### Number two, where we are now. Where the 4



### A merican’s were once the host to freedom in our 5



### government, we have now become hostages to our 6



### governments. 7



### Number three, what citizens of America 8


### can do to prepare themselves for the crises 9


### ahead. Notice I didn’t say crisis, but crises. 10



### There will be w ill many. The greed and overreach 11


### of the EPA is fraught with lies. This is simply 12


### because those in power and the EPA, and other 13


### branches of government are taking us hostage. 14


### One, to those in the media, particularly 15


### news anchors and investigative reporte rs, you 16


### have just heard a few minutes of truth after 17


### being told years of lies. You are left with an 18


### immeasurable duty to tell the truth to the 19


### public. Please do not let your fellow Americans 20


### down. History will judge you on whether you held 21


### the light of truth high. 22

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### To all, if the EPA ignores us again, 1


### please be prepared for high electricity prices 2


### and rolling blackouts, but never forget that it 3


### was our own government that caused this. 4


### Three, vote responsibly. We’re obligated 5



### to

-- 6



### MR. WAYLAND: Ma’am , ma’am

-- 7



### MS. MORRILL:

-- be aware of where our 8



### elected

-- 9


### MR. WAYLAND: Ma’am, your time

-- 10



### MS. MORRILL:

-- public service stand

-- 11



### MR. WAYLAND:

-- your time is up

-- 12



### MS. MORRILL:

-- on our energy policy

-- 13



### MR. WAYLAND:

-- and we’ve let you g o on 14



### for an additional two minutes. You need to 15



### conclude, please. 16



### MS. MORRILL: In conclusion, the EPA 17


### thinks that it can change the debate by shifting 18


### the rhetoric from the global warming to climate 19



### change and clean power, but that’s the same old 20



### game u nder different titles. 21


### As a U.S. citizen I demand this disgrace 22

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### of extending the tentacles of government power 1



### and control stop. There are people who work for 2


### a living and there are people who lie for a 3


### living. What has the EPA become? Sadly, an 4



### agency with people who lie for a living. 5


### Today the Americans are finally learning 6


### that the government of the people is a government 7


### run by liars, a government perpetuating fraud on 8



### us all. A government of self

- interest rather 9



### than a government of the people’ s interest. 10


### It is clear the EPA has a political 11


### agenda, not a commonsense agenda. This is 12


### problematic

-- 13


### MR. WAYLAND: Ms. Morrill, you are going 14



### to have to stop. 15



### MS. MORRILL: We, the people founded the 16


### organization for which you work. 17



### MS. WENZEL: T his is not fair to the rest 18



### of the speakers. 19



### MS. MORRILL: We say no more EPA rules. 20



### Thank you. 21



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. Our next two 22

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### speakers this afternoon will be Lindsey Mosely 1



### Alexander and Michael Butler. 2



### MS. MOSELEY

- ALEXANDER: Good afternoon

. 3


### My name is Lindsey Moseley

- Alexander, it’s 4



### M

- o

- s

- e

- l

- e

- y, Alexander, A

- l

- e

- x

- a

- n

- d

- e

- r. I 5


### just want to start by thanking you for the 6


### opportunity to speak today. I think it’s a 7


### really important forum for all voices to be 8


### heard. So thank you for taking the time and for 9


### your patience to hear from everyone. 10



### I am the Assistant Vice

- President and 11


### Director of the Healthy Air Campaign for the 12


### American Lung Association, and I just want to 13



### share a little bit. There has been a lot who 14


### question health benefits, cleaning up carbon 15


### pollution from power plants. So I hope to shed 16


### just a little bit of light on that, although I 17


### don’t think I can do a better job than Dr. 18


### Wenzel, who shared her expertise. So I’m 19



### thankful to her as well. 20



### MR. WAYLAND: Could you pause for just a 21



### second? 22

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### MS. MOSELEY

- ALEXANDER: Yeah. 1



### MR. WAYLAND: Could we close the doors? 2



### I know it’s hard to hear in this room, and 3


### there’s a lot of undercurrent going on. Okay, 4



### thanks. 5



### MS. MOSELEY

- ALEXANDER: The American Lung 6



### Association is absolute ly committed to fighting 7


### carbon pollution because it saves lives and helps 8


### improve lung health, which is our mission. 9


### As you have heard a number of times, but 10


### it’s really important to repeat it, even with the 11


### steps that are in place right now to reduce ai r 12


### pollution, evidence warns that higher 13


### temperatures due to carbon pollution and climate 14


### change will increase the risk of unhealthy air in 15


### large parts of the United States, because heat 16



### enhances conditions for ozone formation and 17


### particulate matter. 18



### And a s a nation, we have come a long way 19


### in the fight to reduce air pollution, in part 20


### because of the tremendous leadership that the EPA 21


### has shown. But it’s clear we still have a very 22

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### long way to go to ensure that the air we breathe 1


### doesn’t make people sick or kill them. 2


### And we certainly don’t want to see air 3


### pollution in our nation get worse because of 4


### climate change. 5


### For those who live with chronic lung 6


### diseases, pollution like ozone and particulate 7


### matter, which are exacerbated by climate change 8



### can cause difficulty breathing, sugar asthma 9



### attacks and premature death, and have even been 10


### linked to low birth weight in newborns, which 11



### affects them for the rest of their lives. 12


### Children are especially vulnerable 13


### because their airways are still developing. Even 14


### healthy children with long term exposure to ozone 15


### can experience lung damage that puts them at 16


### greater risk later in life. 17


### And we now know that particulate matter 18


### also causes lung cancer, which is the number one 19


### cancer killer in women, as well as being linked 20



### to heart attacks and strokes. 21


### Worsened air quality in large parts of 22

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### the United States is not the only health impacts 1



### we’re concerned about when it comes to climate 2


### change. The recent national climate assessment 3


### highlights other very critical con cerns that are 4


### already impacting our nation today, including 5


### heat waves, wildfires, drought, flooding, dust 6


### storms and much more, and we cannot ignore the 7


### serious public health impacts of these events. 8


### Reducing carbon pollution form power 9


### plants is an imp ortant step in the right 10



### direction. 11


### The American Lung Association also 12


### celebrates the good news that taking steps to 13


### reduce carbon pollution from existing power 14


### plants will also cut emissions of other life 15


### threatening pollutants, nitrogen oxide, sulfur 16


### dioxide and mercury. 17



### And this is a win

- win for the American 18



### people. Why? Well, let’s look at what these 19


### pollutants do. Nitrogen oxides irritate the 20


### lungs, trigger asthma attacks and increase the 21


### risk of infection. Sulfur dioxide triggers 22

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### asthma attack s and increases risks of 1


### hospitalization and emergency room visits. 2



### These pollutants are also known as 3


### precursors to ozone and particulate matter, which 4


### were previously discussed, and everyone knows 5


### that mercury is a dangerous neurotoxin. 6



### It is vital th at EPA both calculate and 7


### inform the public of these very important 8


### lifesaving co

- benefits of reducing pollution from 9


### power plants, so thank you for doing that. 10


### In closing I want to share a few areas 11


### where the American Lung Association sees 12


### opportunities for improvement in the rule, and 13



### also to let you know that we’ll share more 14



### details on these recommendations in our technical 15


### comments, but I just wanted to highlight a few 16


### things for you. 17


### To adequately protect public health, we 18



### believe that EPA needs to adopt greater 19


### reductions in carbon pollution and any other 20


### pollutants than what have been outlined in this 21



### proposal. 22

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### The American Lung Association then 1



### strongly urges you to strengthen the state 2


### emission reduction targets and provide

-- 3


### therefore provid ing greater immediate and long 4



### term health benefits. 5


### We also urge EPA to shorten the time 6


### frame for compliance to five years, without 7


### setting weaker standards to accommodate the 8


### shorter time frame. And you should know that the 9


### American Lung Association d oes not support 10


### biomass combustion for electricity production, 11


### and we would encourage you to revise the plan to 12


### exclude biomass combustion as an acceptable 13


### alternative energy source. 14


### And finally, EPA must ensure that the 15


### Clean Power Plan provides real rel ief to 16


### communities located near power plants who have 17


### suffered the impacts of plant pollution for 18



### decades. 19


### And then the last request, of course, is 20


### that you quickly and clearly spell out the 21


### process for your Federal Implementation Plan, 22

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### that when states fail to meet their requirements, 1


### what’s the plan and how do you get them into 2


### compliance? That’s very important to us. 3



### And as I mentioned, we’ll share more 4


### technical comments, but thank you again for the 5


### opportunity to speak. 6



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you ver y much. 7


### MR. BUTLER: My name is Michael Butler, 8



### M

- i

- c

- h

- a

- e

- l, B

- u

- t

- l

- e

- r. And I serve as the 9


### Executive Director of the Consumer Energy 10



### Alliance Mid

- Atlantic Chapter. 11



### CEA is a nationwide association made of 12


### both energy consumers and producers working t o 13


### advance in all off the above energy policy that 14


### will lower energy cost for every American. 15


### Access to affordable energy is of the utmost 16


### importance to our members, because every dollar 17


### spent on energy is a dollar that cannot be spent 18


### on capital improveme nts, payroll, savings, 19


### groceries or next year’s family vacation. 20


### In order to create economic growth, it is 21


### important for the Government to implement 22

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### policies that will ensure affordable, reliable 1


### energy supplies to America’s families, farms, 2



### factories and small businesses. 3


### If finalized as proposed, regulations on 4


### existing electric generating units will 5


### undoubtedly cause reliable and affordability 6


### concerns for many states, particularly those that 7


### utilize coal for a large portion of their 8


### electricity genera tion. This is a particularly 9


### acute problem in the mid

- Atlantic and Midwest 10


### where many states, including Indiana, Iowa, 11


### Maryland, Ohio, Pennsylvania, West Virginia and 12


### many more rely on coal power generation for more 13


### than 40 percent of their electricity ne eds. 14


### As proposed, these regulations would 15


### force states to enact policies which would 16


### require utilities and electric cooperatives to 17


### prematurely shut down coal fired power plants, 18


### either through the implementation of fuel 19


### switching requirements or renewabl e fuel 20


### mandates, which will likely lead to higher 21


### electricity prices for energy consumers. 22

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### Given the nature of our electric grid, a 1


### buck changes in our energy mix, particularly ones 2



### that have not been contemplated throughout the 3


### development of the grid, o r will reduce dispatch 4


### options and disrupt the fueled diversification 5



### that has been critical to low electric cost. 6


### Additional plant closures will continue 7


### to have a real and negative impact on state and 8


### local economies. For the most vulnerable among 9



### us, including low income families and seniors 10


### living on a fixed budget, higher electricity 11


### costs cannot easily be absorbed. In essence, 12


### they are a regressive tax. 13


### While natural gas, nuclear alternative 14


### and renewable electricity generation have become 15



### much more important part of the fuel mix over the 16


### past several decades, and are certainly capable 17


### of increasing their contributions to the grid. 18


### Developing additional capacity from these sources 19


### and a necessary infrastructure to realize these 20


### expansions will t ake time and likely come with 21


### significant costs to consumers. 22

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### We would also like to point out the EPA’s 1


### aggressive timeline allows states only one year 2


### to develop a very complex plan that will need to 3


### address a series of adjustments to their 4


### electricity g eneration consumption, energy 5


### infrastructure that will come from forcing a 6


### change in the energy mix. 7


### States have historically been given 8


### several years to develop and implement 9


### regulations for criteria pollutants that are a 10


### tiny fraction of the size and s cope of the 11


### proposed regulations that we are discussing 12



### today. 13


### Forcing through regulations of this 14


### magnitude and such a short time frame will limit 15


### the ability of states and stakeholders to 16


### thoughtfully prepare for the drastic changes that 17



### this rule will cause. 18



### If this Administration is comfortable 19


### spending more than five years evaluating the 20


### Keystone XL Pipeline, it should feel comfortable 21


### taking its time to craft a thoughtful rule that 22

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### will fully evaluate the consequences of its 1


### proposed actions. 2



### At a time when electricity consumption is 3


### projected to grow it is important that government 4


### regulations and policies avoid electricity supply 5


### disruptions or unnecessary price increases. As 6


### EPA considers how to move forward, we urge the 7


### agency to keep electri city consumers in mind and 8


### not promulgate rules that will adversely affect 9



### businesses and families. 10



### As a nation, we should strive to have 11


### more of all forms of energy and not simply pick 12


### one energy resource against another. We hope 13



### that EPA will consider the potential economic 14


### impacts on consumers across the nation of these 15


### regulations as it takes the next steps in 16


### development. Thank you for the opportunity to 17


### testify here today. 18



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 19


### We’re going to take a short five minute 20


### break before we continue with the speakers. Just 21


### in way of preparing, the next two speakers will 22

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### be Akshai Singh and Bruce Brucart, and we’ll be 1



### in recess 2


### [Recess from 2:45 to 2:50 p.m.] 3



### MR. WAYLAND: Excuse me. We need to call 4



### the room to order, plea se. I’m sorry, if you’re 5


### having conversations, could you take them out 6



### into the hall because we need to reconvene the 7


### hearing. We’re starting to get a little bit 8



### behind schedule this afternoon. 9



### At this time we’d like to reconvene the 10


### hearing and we will call Akshai Singh and Bruce 11



### Burcat to the stand. Thank you. And I’m sorry 12


### if I mispronounced your name. 13


### MR. SINGH: That is actually the best 14


### pronunciation that’s been in a public hearing 15



### thus far. 16



### MR. WAYLAND: Well, thanks. 17



### MR. SINGH: Hello. My n ame is Akshai 18


### Singh. That’s A

- k

- s

- h

- a

- i, last name is Singh, 19



### S

- i

- n

- g

- h. I’m a resident of Cleveland Heights, 20


### Ohio, at 255 Euclid Heights Boulevard. I am a 21



### master’s candidate in economics at Cleveland 22

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### State University, a soccer coach in Cleveland’s 1



### Villa ge Neighborhood and work with Faith 2


### Communities in Ohio on mitigating the stresses of 3


### climate change, and that’s in terms of dealing 4


### with increasingly extreme weather as well as our 5


### organization, Ohio Interfaith Power and Light, 6


### helps congregations save mo ney by cutting their 7


### dependence on fossil fuels through energy audits 8


### and retrofits, you know, and also to help them 9


### reduce their greenhouse gas footprint. 10


### I wish to speak in favor of the proposed 11



### standards today. As one of the two largest 12



### emitters on th e globe, the United States has a 13


### high responsibility to drastically draw down its 14


### carbon intensity with regards to any future 15


### economic development. 16



### The EPA’s carbon senders for large 17


### emitters are a momentous first step by the 18


### federal government to limit greenhouse gas 19


### pollution. Already we’ve seen that our efforts 20


### to limit greenhouse gas emissions has led to the 21


### Chinese government making announcements that they 22

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### are willing to draw down their carbon intensity 1



### for future development as well. 2



### Yet the pro posed standards leave us 3


### unprepared to accept this full responsibility to 4


### act on climate change. This implies that we have 5


### not yet accepted the scientific consensus 6


### regarding humanities impact on greenhouse gas

-- 7



### on earth’s greenhouse gas effect, nor the full 8


### implications that it will have on civilization 9


### going forward. 10


### Without including limits on methane 11


### emissions, the EPA will be leaving out massively 12


### important source of greenhouse gas emissions. 13



### Other witnesses have testified to the amount 14



### of

-- m ethane is a severely impact on greenhouse 15


### gas versus carbon dioxide on the 20

- year term. 16



### Furthermore, the EPA’s clean power plan 17


### doesn’t address small emitting plants, and leaves 18


### carbon emissions free for plants burning natural 19


### gas at smaller sizes. 20



### Th is is given the evidence of life cycle 21



### greenhouse gas assessments on natural gas 22

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### extraction, transportation and finally their use, 1


### and we see that they yield the same carbon 2


### footprint as coal burning power plants. 3



### The United States must not exacerbate 4



### cli mate change through its expert terminals 5


### either. There is not point cutting our coal 6


### burning in the United States only for us to send 7


### coal to be burned overseas to be put into the 8


### global atmosphere, which we happen to share. 9


### Yet corporate fossil fuel com panies are a 10


### national polluter and they pay to speak for them. 11


### Indeed, these are the most profitable industries 12


### in this country, who also receive billions of 13



### dollars in direct subsidies from the American 14


### taxpayers, would have us believe that America 15



### would meet its demise without them. There is 16


### nothing further from the truth. 17


### Through aggressive employment of demand 18


### response, energy efficiency and renewable energy, 19


### the United States can drastically draw down its 20


### greenhouse gas footprint and meet our energy 21


### needs affordably and with widespread health and 22

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### economic benefits which other witnesses have, 1


### again, testified to. 2



### Furthermore, we can better prepare 3


### ourselves for the conditions of an increasingly 4



### volatile climate and extreme weather. It is 5



### through our ingenuity, our toughness and our 6


### creativity that we will persevere through 7


### increasingly terrible droughts that we see in 8


### southwest United States, or through more 9


### widespread floods and tornados in the Midwest. 10



### I grew up on the state of Iowa, where we 11



### have seen 500

- year floods in the last 30 years. 12


### So, you know, by that math, we’d have to redefine 13



### those to be 20

- year floods, and you know, seeing 14


### that Hurricane Sandy type hurricanes is in the 15


### business as usual context, increase to once every 16


### ten years, is n ot something that we can afford on 17



### our eastern or our gulf seaboards. 18


### But it will not be through the reliance 19


### on increasingly expensive fuels, so we will 20


### persevere, already in communities where it is 21


### feeling the cost of fossil fuels through local 22

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### air and water pollution. In Cleveland where I 1


### coach, nearly one in four children on a 2


### predominantly black eastside suffers from asthma, 3


### and that is true for the girls that I coach on my 4


### team as well as the demographic overall. 5


### We are already seeing massive 6



### envir onmental justice issues today and climate 7


### change will only deepen. The NAACP’s Cold 8



### Blooded Report reports that Cleveland’s Lake 9


### Shore plant is the sixth worse polluting and 10



### environmental offender in the nation. And it’s 11



### one that needs to be closed, and based on not 12


### just the mercury rules, but also the carbon 13



### rules. 14


### I have more written in my testimony. I 15


### hope you’ll consider it and I assume my time’s 16



### up. Thank you. 17



### MR. WAYLAND: Sure, thank you. I had one 18


### question for you. We’ve heard it from sever al 19


### speakers today, the need for us to do something 20


### with respect to methane emissions. Is that 21


### focused on fracking and oiling gas or is it 22

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### methane emissions in general? I’m just not clear 1


### where the focus is targeted there on methane, 2



### whether it’s all meth ane emissions or whether 3


### it’s the methane associated with the gas that

-- 4


### MR. SINGH: I think methane leakages, 5


### especially at the point of extraction is a major 6


### concern that I’m hearing repeated, and it’s the 7



### one that I am most familiar with. 8



### MR. WAYLAND: Yeah, that’s what I thought 9


### it was, I just wanted to clarify. 10



### MR. SINGH: Thank you. 11



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. 12



### MR. BURCAT: Good afternoon. I am Bruce 13


### Burcat, it’s spelled B

- u

- r

- c

- a

- t. And I am the 14



### Executive Director of the Mid

- Atlantic Renewable 15


### Energy Coalition, which we call MAREC. MAREC is 16



### a non

- profit organization formed to advance 17


### renewable energy opportunities within the 18


### footprint of PJM, the Regional Transmission 19


### Organization. 20


### MAREC’s membership consists of leading 21


### wind developers, wind turbine manufacturers, 22

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### service companies and non

- profit organizations, 1


### and a transmission company. MAREC’s members have 2



### developed, owned and operated thousands of 3


### megawatts of renewable energy serving the PJM 4


### territory, including here in Pennsylvania and 5


### neighboring West Virginia and Ohio. 6


### I commend the EPA for issuing the draft 7



### Clean Power Plan. Here in the Mid Atlantic we 8


### have seen the devastation caused by Super Storm 9


### Sandy, and recognize the critical potence of 10


### taking action now to curb carbon emissi ons. The 11


### alternative, wowing the status quo, is not an 12


### option. 13


### The wind industry is urged to work with 14


### the states and the EPA by developing and 15


### providing zero emitting renewable energy to help 16


### meet the state carbon reducing targets that will 17



### need to be developed to comply with the draft 18



### plan. 19


### Allowing renewable energy is a compliance 20


### option to meet these targets, and the endorsement 21


### of programs such as renewable portfolio standards 22

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### are especially important components of this well 1


### designed strategy to a ddress global warming. 2


### I support the draft plan and believe that 3


### it is a strong step on the right direction. 4


### Nevertheless, the final rule should be developed 5


### further by requiring greater emission reductions 6


### that are implemented faster than what is propos ed 7


### in the draft rule. Zero emitting renewable 8


### energy can be relied upon to provide greater 9


### reductions in a timely and affordable way. 10



### That’s critical. 11


### In fact, the American Wind Energy 12


### Associations calculated that using renewable 13


### energy, not just wind e nergy, as a compliance 14


### option to meet the targets of the plan would save 15


### consumers billions of dollars per year. 16


### According to U.S. Department of Energy, 17


### the cost of wind has fallen 43 percent in the 18


### last four years. Wind energy is being added 19


### reliably an d affordably to the grid to the point 20


### that on an annual average basis it provides more 21


### than 25 percent of electricity in two states, 12 22

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### percent or more in nine states, and five percent 1



### or more in 17 states. 2


### In this region, PJM, the great operator, 3



### compl eted a comprehensive study earlier this year 4


### that concluded that the PBJ could reliably handle 5


### renewable energy penetration levels up to 30 6



### percent

-- we’re talking about now we have about 7


### two or three percent in this region

-- with the 8



### need for some addit ional reserve and transmission 9



### build out. 10


### The study’s 30 percent wind energy 11


### penetration scenario showed that carbon emissions 12


### would be reduced by 140 to 180 million tons on an 13


### annual basis from PJM electricity generation 14


### alone at that 30 percent wind pen etration level. 15


### The study also concluded that under its 16


### 20 and 30 percent wind energy penetration level 17



### scenarios, there would be massive reductions in 18


### wholesale prices, as much as 21 billion annually 19



### in one scenario. 20


### These study results are consistent w ith a 21



### number of other studies which demonstrate that 22

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### the price suppression effects of wind energy, 1


### when it competes with other generating resources 2


### in the wholesale electricity market, such as the 3


### PJM market, basically wind, when it competes, is 4



### usually on e of the lower cost forms of energy at 5


### that time, and it will box out other types of 6


### energy that are more expensive, thus reducing 7


### what we call the clearing price of energy, and 8


### lowering the cost, ultimately, to consumers. 9


### The American Wind Energy Associa tion 10


### reports that here in Pennsylvania, where there is 11


### instilled recapacity of 1,340 megawatts, the 12


### commonwealth will avoid nearly two million metric 13


### tons of carbon emissions a year, the equivalent 14


### of taking approximately 350,000 cars off the 15



### road. 16



### Wind e nergy companies invested 17


### approximately 2.7 billion in capital for their 18


### projects in Pennsylvania alone. This investment 19


### as not only driven economic development, but 20


### landowners and county government see benefits in 21


### the millions of dollars paid to them for land 22

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### leases and tax payments. 1


### Pennsylvania is just one example where 2



### renewable energy can be developed to reduce 3



### carbon emissions in a reliable and affordable 4


### manner while at the same time being an engine for 5


### economic development. Thank you for the 6



### oppo rtunity to speak today. I appreciate it. 7



### MR. WAYLAND: Thanks to both of you. Our 8


### next two speakers this afternoon are Patricia 9



### Marida and James VanNostrand. 10


### MS. MARIDA: Hello. My name is Patricia 11



### Marida, it’s M

- a

- r

- i

- d

- a. And I’m from Columbus, 12



### O hio, and I’m speaking today as a member of the 13


### Core Organizing Team of the National Sierra 14


### Club’s Nuclear Free Campaign. 15


### EPA’s proposed rule for reducing carbon 16


### dioxide emissions from existing electrical 17


### generating units is an important and historic 18



### step toward addressing climate change. However, 19


### EPA’s support of nuclear power and under playing 20


### of the importance of renewables and efficiency is 21



### of serious concern. 22

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### The EPA Clean Power Plan Proposed Rule 1


### supports building new nuclear reactors and 2



### maintainin g existing reactors as an alternative 3


### to burning fossil fuels. 4



### The proposed rule encourages states to 5


### prevent even the most uncompetitive nuclear 6


### reactors from closing. 7


### The rule underestimates the advantage of 8


### renewable energy and energy efficiency as th e 9


### best alternatives for reducing carbon emissions. 10



### The rule should acknowledge that renewables and 11


### efficiency can produce the power we need without 12


### the use of fossil fuels or nuclear power, and 13


### they can remove more carbon per dollar spent in a 14



### shorter tim e. 15



### Numerous studies have shown that this 16


### transition needs only the political will to make 17


### it happen. New nuclear reactors cost billions of 18


### dollars and take many years to bring online. 19


### Renewable energy, and especially efficiency are 20


### much cheaper and thei r development is already 21



### underway. 22

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### EPA incorrectly claims that nuclear power 1


### is reliable. This ignores the many times nuclear 2



### reactors have had to shut down for years due to 3


### warm water temperatures, flooding and extreme 4



### weather events, all of which will worsen as the 5



### climate warms. 6


### Nuclear power is far from carbon free. 7


### Fossil fuels are used for uranium mining, 8


### milling, processing, conversion enrichment, 9


### transportation and construction of reactors. 10


### Huge amounts of energy will be needed to isolate 11



### nucle ar waste for millennia, a task which science 12



### so far has not been able to address. 13



### Large amounts of water are also used to 14


### operate and cool the reactors. This water use 15


### can compete with other water needs in an era of 16


### increasing freshwater scarcity. 17



### EP A seriously minimizes the problem of 18


### radioactive waste. In fact, EPA erroneously 19



### contends that radioactive waste avoids the 20


### problem of waste from coal fired generation. 21


### Waste from coal is a serious problem, but 22

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### radioactive waste is extremely dangerous an d 1


### remains so for millions of years. 2


### EPA also ignores the routine radioactive 3



### releases at all reactors, and the several U.S. 4



### close calls to nuclear meltdown. 5



### The Sierra Club maintains that the first 6


### step toward dealing with nuclear waste and 7



### radioacti ve pollution is to stop generating it. 8


### The Proposed Clean Power Plan improperly calls 9



### for reductions of carbon dioxide from 2005 10


### levels. The problem is that carbon dioxide 11


### levels in 2005 were the highest ever. 12



### I fact, current levels are 15 percent 13



### les s than 2005. The proposed rule should at 14


### least use current levels or more appropriately, 15



### 1990 levels. 16


### The nuclear industry is looking to gain 17


### carbon credits. We say these carbon credits are 18


### undeserved. But in any case, the industry is 19


### asking for carb on credits for nuclear power. 20


### These very credits will allow the industry to 21



### burn more coal. 22

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### How does the EPA propose that we obtain 1


### our national energy supply if we cut carbon but 2


### do not move as quickly as possible to 3


### sustainable, renewable replacement s ources such 4


### as wind, solar, geothermal and efficiency. 5


### So we hope that EPA will not, by default, 6


### look at nuclear power or fracking as the mainstay 7


### of America’s energy future. 8


### Currently, EPA has out an advance notice 9



### for comments on environmental radiatio n 10


### protection standards for nuclear power 11


### operations. Unless the current radiation 12


### protection standards are strengthened, EPA will 13


### continue to have lower standards for protection 14


### from radioactivity than it has standards for 15


### protection from other pollutants

. 16


### EPA’s acceptable cancer risk is one in a 17



### million to one in ten thousand for other 18


### pollutants. The allowable limit for radioactive 19


### exposure is 25 milligrams per year. If a 20


### person’s life span is 70 years, that risk 21



### translates to one cancer per 500 perso ns, which 22

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### is as many as 2000 times more allowable

-- as 1



### many as 2000 more allowable cancers. 2



### So we don’t want the EPA to lower those, 3


### certainly, they should raise those standards, and 4


### we strongly approve of reducing carbon dioxide, 5



### but we think inclusion of reactors as a solution 6


### is a mistake. So thank you very much for your 7



### time. 8



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Any 9


### questions? Okay. 10



### MR. VANNOSTRAND: Good afternoon. I’m 11



### James VanNostrand, V

- a

- n, capital 12



### N

- o

- s

- t

- r

- a

- n

- d. I’m an associate profess or at 13


### the West Virginia University College of Law and 14


### Director of the Center for Energy and Sustainable 15


### development at West Virginia University. 16


### We’ve been following this issue very 17



### closely for the last year or so. We had our 18



### conference, our annual energ y conference in 19


### February, which actually focused on the 20


### anticipated 111(d) rules and the path forward for 21


### coal dependent states, recognizing that there are 22

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### some regions of the country that are going to be 1



### more adversely affected by these rules than 2



### others. 3


### We brought together academics, NGO’s, 4


### public officials to start the discussion. And 5


### the theme of the conference was actually being 6


### able to exercise the hope for flexibility that we 7



### would get under the EPA rules, under 111(d). And 8



### I think the conferen ce well prepared the 9


### participants for the rule that came out last 10



### month. 11


### Since then we’ve actually got funding 12


### from the Appalachian Stewardship Foundation. 13


### We’re putting together a White Paper for West 14


### Virginia, sort of a path forward, looking at the 15



### fl exibility of the EPA proposed rules. 16


### It gives us in West Virginia providing a 17


### look forward. Looking at some of the options, it 18


### probably won’t necessarily be embraced in West 19


### Virginia, let’s put it that way. So we’ll be 20


### working on that for the next

-- through next 21



### year. 22

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### Some of the challenges of the Clean Power 1



### Plan, fra nkly, in many respects the Clean Air Act 2


### is a blunt instrument to regulate greenhouse gas 3


### emissions. It’s a major policy decision, and 4


### ideally, you would have a legislature addressing 5



### that issue. 6


### When you look back at the comprehensive 7


### energy and climate legislation that passed in 8


### June of 2009, you actually had a recognition that 9


### some parts of the country were going to be more 10



### adversely affected. You had workforce energy 11



### worker trai ning programs. You had

-- addressing 12


### the issues of workers displaced due to emissions 13


### regulations and grants for colleges and 14



### universities to retool and retrain folks. 15



### And that’s

-- I think those are the sort 16


### of tools that you have in a comprehensive p iece 17


### of legislation, that are not available when the 18


### agency acts. Nonetheless, it’s clear the EPA has 19


### the authority to regulate greenhouse gases and 20


### pollutants under the Clean Air Act and under the 21



### Massachusetts versus EPA case since the 22

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### endangerment fili ng in December, 2009. 1


### And despite the limitations that EPA has 2


### as compared to congressional action, it does have 3


### considerable flexibility, and we think the EPA 4


### has provided a lot of options for states to 5


### comply with the Clean Power Plan. 6



### The path forwar d, West Virginia has a 20 7


### percent reduction target in contrast as compared 8


### to the nation’s 30 percent target. We think that 9


### presents numerous opportunities for West 10


### Virginians. 11


### How are we going to get there? Well, the 12


### first building block is an assume d six percent 13


### achievement and improved efficiency at existing 14


### electric generating units. So that’s something 15



### we

-- we have a lot of coal plants in West 16


### Virginia, and that’s going to be the first step, 17


### I think, is the inside defense options of 18


### increasing e fficiency of existing plants. 19


### Second increase in the dispatch of 20


### existing natural gas, combined cycle combustion 21


### turbines, we don’t have any of those in West 22

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### Virginia, so we’re not going to get much play out 1


### of that second option. 2


### Third option, renewable generation. The 3


### assumption in the EPA analysis is we’re going to 4



### go from about two percent to 16 percent between 5


### now and 2030. That’s going to be ambitious for 6



### us. Our current state alternative renewable 7


### energy portfolio standard really does not provid e 8


### much incentive for stimulating production of 9


### renewables. But there is a lot of potential in 10


### West Virginia. 11


### Our study, in particular, I think, is 12


### going to look at the possibility of coal firing 13


### biomass with coal as one means of reducing the 14



### carbon foo tprint of existing power plants. 15


### The final building block is the most 16


### important, we think, for going forward in West 17


### Virginia, and that’s energy efficiency, where the 18


### Clean Power Plan assumes that we’re going to have 19



### a 10 percent

-- 10.1 percent accumulat ive energy 20


### savings from the 2012 baseline, basically ramping 21


### up to 1.5 percent annual savings beginning in 22

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### 2025. 1



### We think that’s the lowest cost 2


### compliance option for West Virginia. It’s a 3


### relatively untapped resource in West Virginia. 4



### ACEEE, the Americ an Council for an Energy 5


### Efficient Economy, in their state rankings, puts 6


### West Virginia at Number 46. We have a lot of 7


### potential there in West Virginia. We have 8


### relatively low electricity rates, as measured, 9


### according to other states. 10


### Our electricity bi lls, however, are 11


### pretty much right around the middle in terms of 12



### the 50 states because we use a lot more energy, 13


### which just demonstrates the fact that energy 14


### efficiency is an untapped resource. 15


### So those are the kind of things that are 16


### planned going for ward, our policy paper going 17


### forward is going to be looking at, one of the 18


### options for West Virginia to comply with this 19


### rule in the least cost possible, looking 20


### primarily at energy efficiency, and some 21


### renewables. And we’ll be filing comments

-- 22

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### formal c omments to the EPA, but we really 1


### appreciate the opportunity, we appreciate the EPA 2


### coming to Pittsburgh and the opportunity for me 3


### to provide these comments. Thank you. 4



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 5


### Okay, our next two speakers this 6



### afternoon wi ll be Rick Claypool and Joy Bergey. 7


### Is James still in the room or did he slip 8


### out? I was wondering if he had

-- see if he has 9


### something that he could leave with us. 10


### Mr. VanNostrand, did you have something 11


### you wanted to leave with us? 12



### MR. VANNOSTRAND: We’re going to file 13



### formal comments. 14


### MR. WAYLAND: You’re going to file formal 15



### comments, okay. Thank you very much. Sorry 16



### about that. 17


### MR. CLAYPOOL: It’s all right. Good 18


### afternoon. My name is Rick Claypool and I’m here 19


### not just for myself but also on behalf of Public 20


### Citizen, a 300,000 strong non

- profit organization 21


### dedicated to fighting for the public interest and 22

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### standing up to corporate power to testify in 1


### support of the EPA’s proposed to limit pollution 2



### from power plants. 3



### Now, I have lived in a nd around 4


### Pittsburgh almost my entire life. I grew up in 5


### Leechburg, a steel mill town in the Allegheny 6


### Valley about 30 miles from here. My father is a 7



### steel worker. Both my grandfathers are steel 8



### workers. My great

- grandfather died in the mill 9



### in the 19 20's when a piece of metal came crashing 10



### down on him. 11



### So I know what it means to live in a 12


### community that relies on a big industry for work, 13



### and I know about the health sacrifices families 14



### make as they try to make ends meet. 15



### But also, I know that it is i n all of our 16


### interests, young and old, which implore to move 17


### beyond fossil fuels in order to improve air 18


### quality and avert catastrophic climate change. 19


### Now, ultimately, the science demands that 20


### we shift power production entirely to renewables 21



### like wind an d solar. In that respect, the EPA’s 22

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### proposal is not nearly aggressive enough, but it 1


### is a good first step. 2


### Because of coal fired power plants, 3


### Pittsburgh and the surrounding area has some of 4


### the worst air in the country. The sixth worst 5



### last year accord ing to the American Lung 6


### Association’s Annual Air Quality Report. 7


### As Mayor Bill Peduto and Governor Tom 8



### Corbett work to attract new investments in our 9


### city and state, such poor air quality will remain 10



### an albatross around our collective necks, 11


### stifling gro wth as American

-- as air in 12



### American’s most livable city becomes less 13



### breathable. 14



### For myself, I can say the more I learn 15


### about our low air quality, the more I consider 16


### relocating somewhere with cleaner air. I had 17


### respiratory problems growing up. I have a one 18


### year old son. If there is anything I can do to 19


### help him avoid the shortness of breath I suffered 20


### while growing up in the shadow of a century old 21



### steel mill, I’ll do it. 22

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### But, of course, having the flexibility 1



### and the means to relocate where the air is 2


### cleaner is a privilege that very few of our 3


### neighbors enjoy. And poor air quality is 4


### increasingly a burden most severely suffered by 5


### the poor, especially low income children. 6


### There’s nothing mysterious about this air quality 7


### inequality. Housing is e xpensive. Housing your 8



### industrial sites less so. 9


### Claims that coal is cheap, ignore its 10


### cost in terms of impact to health, the 11


### environment and its carbon output. Account for 12


### those costs, which today are primarily borne by 13


### the public, and the cost of elec tricity 14


### generation from coal rises 170 percent. 15



### It’s the fact that the health effects of 16


### air pollution are suffered by the poor more than 17


### anyone else that makes the lie that these EPA 18


### rules will harm consumer’s pocketbooks so utterly 19


### disingenuous. The U. S. Chamber of Commerce, a 20


### business organization devoted to demanding and 21


### expanding corporate profits is among the most 22

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### vocal voices making this false claim. 1



### The U.S. Chamber of Commerce does not 2


### care about consumers, and it certainly does not 3



### care about l ow income consumers. 4


### The EPA, to its credit, has proposed its 5


### greenhouse gas rule in a way that enables states 6


### to keep prices affordable, and even result in 7


### lower energy prices because of the significant 8


### flexibility states have to implement the rule. 9



### Pen nsylvania cities could and should 10


### follow the example of Austin, Texas, which signed 11



### a 20

- year agreement with a solar power company to 12


### supply electricity to the city at a rate less 13


### than the city’s prevailing rate. In other words, 14


### electricity rates will go down under the solar 15



### deal. 16


### A recent PJM study supports this 17


### conclusion. Increasing renewable energy 18


### generation would reduce wholesale energy prices 19



### to consumers between 4.2 and 21.5 percent. 20


### Another option that states have to reduce 21


### greenhouse gases is energy efficiency. Using 22

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### power more efficiently means using less power 1


### overall, translating into fewer fossil fuels 2


### burned at a lower utility bills. As an added 3


### bonus, putting people to work improving 4


### efficiency boosts economy and creates jobs. 5



### Not only do the facts support the need to 6


### limit pollution from coal fired power plants, 7


### they demand it. The EPA’s proposed rule is good 8



### for consumers, good for the economy, and good for 9



### the country. 10


### Polluting industries such as those that 11



### have set themselves aga inst the EPA’s modest 12


### standards will say anything if they think it will 13


### help them scare the public and convince 14


### regulators to back down. Their financial 15


### interests in continuing to pollute as much as 16


### they want is no excuse for sacrificing the public 17



### intere st in addressing climate change and 18


### ensuring clean air. 19



### Do not back down, double down, strengthen 20


### the rules so limits are placed on all fossil 21


### fuels, including fracked natural gas. Take this 22

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### opportunity to help us kick the fossil fuel habit 1



### and transiti on to a clean air economy. Thank 2



### you. 3



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 4



### MS. BERGEY: Hello, EPA. Welcome to 5


### Pennsylvania, thanks for coming. 6


### MR. WAYLAND: Thanks for being here. 7


### MS. BERGEY: My name is Joy Bergey, but 8


### I’m reading the testimony o f Reverend Linda Nunen 9


### (phonetic). She’s the pastor of my church. She 10


### couldn’t come here today because she’s in 11


### Philadelphia doing her job, but I traveled to 12


### Pittsburgh. So I’ll read her testimony. And I’m 13



### a member of the church. So this is for Revere nd 14


### Linda Nunen, who is senior pastor at Chestnut 15



### Hill United Church. 16


### “Our church has been working to address 17


### environmental injustice for over 20 years. We 18


### are extremely concerned about what climate change 19


### is already doing to God’s earth and God’s 20



### people. ” 21


### Quoting Linda here, “As a mother of two 22

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### teenage girls, one who suffers from asthma, the 1



### distress I feel for the future due to climate 2


### disruptions is highly personal.” 3


### “Chestnut Hill United Church fully 4



### supports the EPA proposal of a strong standard t o 5


### limit carbon pollution from existing power 6


### plants. It’s past time for these power plants to 7


### control the pollution they belch into the 8



### environment.” 9


### “We recognize that climate change will 10


### hurt first and worst those least able to get out 11


### of its way. The poor, the sick, the young, the 12


### old. And Christians are called to give special 13


### protections to these constituencies.” 14


### “We support this proposed rule as we 15


### consider all those at risk here in Pittsburgh, 16


### and in Philadelphia, where our church and family 17



### are located, and across the country, and around 18



### the world, those who deserve a cleaner, safer 19



### future.” 20


### “Chestnut Hill Church urges you to 21


### implement the standard quickly without any 22

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### weakening. But equally, we urge the federal 1


### government to support a just tran sition to a 2


### clean economy with retraining offered to those 3


### who may lose their jobs as a result of this 4



### rule.” 5


### “With appropriate supports, today’s coal 6


### miners can become tomorrow’s wind farm operators, 7


### and energy auditors. These are safer jobs that 8


### pay ju st as well or better.” 9



### “The Bible, Proverbs and the Old 10



### Testament tells us that without vision that 11


### people will perish. The wise ones all those 12


### thousands of years ago knew this truth.” 13


### “Our congregation applauds the EPA for 14


### their vision of an economy th at grows and 15


### prospers while weaning itself of the dirtiest 16


### fossil fuels that kill and disable too many of 17


### us. This is, indeed, a vision of hope and 18


### justice. Thank you, EPA.” 19



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you both. Okay, our 20


### next two speakers this afternoon will be Sophie 21



### Grueterich and Jackson Morris. 22

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### Jackson Morris. Is Jackson Morris in the 1


### room? Okay, if not, Susan Edwards. And we’ll 2


### hold Jackson’s spot for him. Okay, if he comes 3


### in just let me know and we’ll work him in. 4



### MS. GRUETERICH: Good afterno on. My name 5


### Sophie Grueterich, that’s S

- o

- p

- h

- i

- e, and 6



### Gruetrich, G

- r

- u

- e

- t

- e

- r

- i

- c

- h. 7


### As a Pennsylvania resident, Environment 8


### Field Organizer and Villanova student, I am here 9



### to show my support today for the strong and 10



### necessary steps the EPA and the Administration 11


### are so valiantly trying to take against carbon 12


### pollution from coal fired power plants. 13


### Climate change has put my hometown in 14



### coastal Connecticut at risk. The increase in 15



### extreme weather events spurred by the 16


### unpredictable climate has init iated flood after 17


### flood, leaving in its wake thousands of dollars 18


### in repairs, and even forcing many out of their 19



### homes. 20


### Climate change is putting not only 21



### countless shore communities at risk, but also 22

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### inland towns and cities where unprecedented 1


### precipitat ion will undoubtedly cause building and 2


### infrastructure problems. 3



### I could speak for hours about 4


### Super Storm Sandy and the effects it had on shore 5



### front communities, but I think we’ve all heard 6


### the spiel more than enough times. We’ve heard 7



### about the Ameri can Lung Association studies that 8


### show about half of all Americans are breathing 9


### unsafe air, and how this is causing hundreds of 10



### thousands of additional asthma attacks and 11



### thousands of additional deaths. 12



### We’ve heard the numbers associated with 13



### coal fired power plants and their carbon 14


### emissions. I can go on but I don’t need to 15


### because the evidence is available. It’s right in 16


### front of us, but so many refuse to see it. 17


### How can you argue with scientific study 18


### after study that proves not only that climate 19


### change is real but also anthropogenic. Why is it 20



### so hard for some of us to look at these facts and 21


### accept them for just that. 22

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### Our old culture of innovation, of change, 1


### of inspiration, how can a nation that put the 2



### first man on the moon not strive to be the leader 3


### in energy efficiency and renewables? 4


### If you ask me, so what if global warming 5


### keeps happening? What does that look like? I 6


### probably couldn’t give you an exact answer, 7


### because I’m not a climate change researcher, and 8



### I also don’t like to deal in hypotheticals, 9


### especially not ones I don’t want to see happen. 10



### But what I do know is that what it looks like is 11



### not pretty. 12


### Humans will adapt for a while, we always 13



### do, that’s true. But if we don’t act now, 14


### humanity is going to struggle through that 15


### adaptation more than we ever have in the past. 16


### People talk about jobs being lost, or 17


### shifting sectors, or our economy taking a hit. 18


### If you think that’s a problem now, today, when 19


### the physical effects of climate change still seem 20


### like a distant reality, take a moment to imagine 21


### what job loss and economic impact will look like 22

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### when we have to make all of our adaptations in 1



### one fell swoop. 2


### If we wanted to stop climate change, we 3


### would have had to have taken this step at least 4



### 30 years ago. But now we hav e to accept the fact 5


### that changes are going to happen because of the 6


### steps that we have failed to take, and we have to 7


### do everything we can to stop that change from 8


### multiplying tenfold. 9


### The Clean Power Plan is the biggest piece 10


### of clean air policy that an y federal agency or 11


### administration has attempted to implement since 12



### the last amendments to the Clean Air Act in 1990. 13


### So much has changed since then. 14


### We have witnessed the hottest year on 15


### record, 2012. The average rate of ice loss from 16



### the Antarctica Ic e Sheet has increased 17


### dramatically. Carbon dioxide, methane and 18



### nitrous oxide concentrations have hit 19


### unprecedented levels. All while carbon dioxide 20



### emissions from fossil fuel combustion have 21


### increased by 54 percent. 22

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### You can chalk these up to coinciden ce if 1


### you’d like. But I would really rather that our 2



### decision makers don’t leave the health of future 3


### generations up to chance. Thank you. 4



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 5


### MS. EDWARDS: Hi. My name is Susan 6



### Edwards, E

- d

- w

- a

- r

- d

- s. I come from th e eastern 7


### side of the state near Philadelphia. I see our 8


### society and economy as having reached a 9


### crossroads. We can ignore the warnings of the 10


### overwhelming majority of scientists and choose 11


### the path of business as usual, burning fossil 12



### fuels to run our v ehicles, heat and cook our 13


### buildings, manufacture products and create 14


### electricity. 15


### I believe this path leads to pollution, 16


### illness and a dangerous alteration of the climate 17


### of the entire planet. We’ve been hearing this 18



### all day long, I don’t need to spec ify. Or we can 19


### take charge of our situation and for the first 20


### time in human history, consciously design 21


### together a rational energy future. 22

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### I believe the first path represents 1


### putting our heads in the sand and hoping against 2


### hope that the scientists are w rong. While the 3


### second path means keeping our eyes wide open and 4


### using our best minds to plan energy production 5


### and distribution, not allowing the profit 6



### calculations of a few owners of coal and oil 7


### reserves to drag all of us to the brink of 8



### destruction a nd beyond. 9



### I applaud the EPA’s proposal to reduce 10


### carbon emissions from power plants. I am retired 11


### now and I’m devoting many hours each week to 12


### volunteering with environmental groups, in 13


### particular, the Sierra Club, because I see the 14



### issue of human cause d planetary warming and the 15


### resulting chaotic effects on our climate as the 16



### most crucial issue of our times. 17


### I believe we need to take strong action. 18


### One, to increase the efficiency of all our forms 19


### of energy use, and two, to reduce fossil fuel 20


### consumpti on and replace it with clean sustainable 21



### energy sources. 22

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### I think the Clean Power Plan is a step in 1


### the right direction. There is a caveat. I do 2


### hope the EPA will reconsider including nuclear 3


### energy and natural gas as alternatives to be 4



### encouraged. The problems of nuclear waste 5


### storage, the pollution from uranium mining and 6


### the immense water usage of nuclear plants are all 7


### reasons to exclude it and focus on developing 8


### energy efficiency measures on expanding wind, 9


### solar and geothermal electricity generati on and 10



### storage. 11


### And while natural gas may burn cleaner 12


### than other fossil fuels, the problem with methane 13


### leakage during fracking as well as pollution of 14


### air and water make it highly problematic. We 15


### should be focusing investment dollars on long 16



### term susta inability, that is, efficiency first, 17


### then solar, wind and geothermal power. 18


### The benefits of reducing carbon emissions 19


### will not only be to ameliorate climate change but 20


### also to improve public health as we clean up our 21



### air and water. 22

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### I live close to the city of Philadelphia. 1


### Philadelphia’s African/American children are 2



### afflicted with asthma at twice the national rate. 3


### Nearly one in four and in some areas one in three 4


### African/American children in Philadelphia suffer 5



### from asthma, which has been linked to ozone and 6


### rising temperatures. These children deserve an 7


### environment in which they won’t have to miss 8


### school days and play outside with being sickened. 9


### One final but most important note, some 10


### try to pit environmental protection as jobs 11



### versus the enviro nment. I think it can be jobs 12


### for the environment. I fully understand, I 13


### think, the anxiety associated with the transition 14


### to a clean energy future. People will have to 15


### leave behind the jobs associated with our current 16


### energy infrastructure. They will be looking for 17


### help getting retrained, if need be, and finding 18


### work in the many avenues that will open up from 19


### retrofitting buildings to manufacturing and 20


### installing wind turbines and solar panels, as 21


### well as many other jobs that will be needed. 22

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### I say I t hink I understand, because my 1



### husband is a retired United Auto Workers of 2



### America member and former local union officer, 3


### and I was at one time a shop steward. 4



### I was laid off in the 1982 economic 5



### downturn and eventually found other work. My 6



### husband, a h ighly skilled machinist, who could 7


### trim metal parts to within a few ten

- thousandths 8



### of an inch, saw the machines on which he earned a 9


### livelihood sold to companies overseas. He had to 10


### switch to other work, a huge change in his life. 11


### So I appreciate the wrenching that will 12


### come with shifting from dirty to clean energy 13


### production, and leaving fossil fuels in the 14



### ground. I hope that under the Clean Power Plan 15


### states will emphasize increasing renewable energy 16


### sources and increasing energy efficiency, both o f 17



### which create more than three times the number of 18


### jobs per dollar spent than any of the fossil 19



### fuels. 20


### And also, salaries for clean jobs are 21


### nearly $8,000 higher than other wages. I have a 22

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### citation here for that. 1


### I support a strong and just Clean Power 2


### Plan, so I commit to using my energies to 3


### advocate as strongly as I know how for a just 4


### transition to good paying union level jobs in the 5


### new energy economy, and disadvantaged communities 6


### must receive fair access to clean energy related 7


### economic opportunit ies, so they must be at the 8



### table as plans are made. Thank you for 9


### listening. 10



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you. I had one 11


### question. The nuclear issue has come up several 12


### times this morning and this afternoon. Is your 13


### point to not include nuclear power, or just not 14


### include credits for building new nuclear plants, 15


### or is it nuclear power in general? 16


### MS. EDWARDS: Nuclear power in general as 17



### far as I’m concerned. 18



### MR. WAYLAND: Okay, thank you. 19


### Okay, for the record I was just informed 20


### Jackson Morris already spoke this morning, so his 21


### testimony is already on the record, so we will 22

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### skip over that. Do we have more? 1


### Okay, the next two speakers will be Paul 2



### Lubold and Zack Gordon. And then I understand 3


### we’re going to take another little break to wait 4



### for some more speakers to arrive. 5


### MR. GORDON: Hi, my name is Zachary 6



### Gordon, G

- o

- r

- d

- o

- n. I recently graduated from 7


### the University of Pittsburgh Law School, and 8


### yesterday and the day before I just sat for the 9


### Bar exam. I’m here after these trying times in 10


### my life be cause this issue is important. 11


### I’m going to take a brief digression and 12


### tell you I commute by bus every day. For just 13


### about the past three years going to school, I 14


### take the bus. If it’s raining I get wet. If 15


### it’s hot out, I get hot. If it’s cold, I get 16



### cold. 17



### Last year was unbearable. We had the 18



### polar vortex and I worked or went to school every 19


### day of the week. So when it was freezing out, 20



### they don’t cancel law school classes. They don’t 21


### take a day off at the law firm. I was there 22

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### waiting for the bus at seven in the morning some 1


### days in the freezing cold. 2


### Now, I know that this small impact that 3


### these coal regulations might have overall on 4


### climate change seem minor, but if there is 5


### anything we can do to stop the polar vortexes and 6



### to keep me, a r ecent graduate, from having to 7


### wait at the bus stop in the freezing cold, we 8



### should do it. 9


### And I know, like many people here, you 10



### know, I’m not really

-- there’s some people here 11


### who are environmentalist. I’m just a law 12


### student. I just graduated. Than kfully, I have a 13


### job. I’m going to be doing family law and media 14



### law. 15


### The environment, you know, this is not a 16


### huge issue for me. But I’m here because I see 17


### study after study. You just hear everything 18


### people are saying, you know. It’s just 19



### universal ly accepted by science, we need to do 20


### something. And I just want to be here today 21


### thank you, that’s the EPA, for standing up and 22

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### doing something. I appreciate it, but I 1



### challenge you to do more. I know you can. I 2



### want you to do more and I’ll have your back to do 3



### more. I have your back today. Thank you for 4


### having our backs, and hopefully keeping me warmer 5



### at the bus stop. Thank you very much. 6



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much and 7


### good luck with the Bar. 8



### MR. GORDON: Thank you. 9



### MR. LUBOLD: Good a fternoon. I am Paul 10



### Lubold, that is L

- u

- b

- o

- l

- d. I live in 11


### Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Welcome to Pittsburgh. 12


### I am a pastor of the Evangelical Lutheran Church 13


### in America and I am also serving on the staff of 14


### our church’s state public policy office. I joi n 15


### with other Lutherans who are calling for clean 16


### air for all of God’s children. That’s a campaign 17



### we are in the midst of. 18



### We fully support the EPA’s Clean Power 19


### Plan. The Plan to limit carbon dioxide pollution 20


### from existing power plants. The ELCA is a 21



### denomination of about four million members. Our 22

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### presiding Bishop, the Reverend Elizabeth Eaton, 1


### along with the presiding bishop of the Episcopal 2



### Church, USA, that’s the Reverend Katharine 3


### Jefferts Sdhori, issued a joint statement last 4


### month immediately following the EPA’s proposal. 5



### Together these two church leaders of 6


### national church bodies fully support the proposed 7


### limit on carbon emissions, and they recognize it 8


### as but a step in the right direction. 9


### I share their concern about the impacts 10



### of global climate change most especially as it 11


### seems to be taking its largest told on quote, 12


### “the health of young children and their families 13


### disproportionately affecting the poorest among 14



### us.” 15


### And again I quote from the Bishop’s 16



### statement, “Multi

- year droughts, sea level rise, 17



### extreme weather events”

-- like you just 18



### described

-- “increased flooding dramatically 19


### affect communities internationally from the north 20


### slopes of Alaska to Midwestern farming families, 21


### to our brothers and sisters in the Philippines.” 22

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### The bishop is right. “We recognize with concern 1


### that climate change, particularly harms low 2



### income communities.” 3


### I also want to speak in support of a 4



### Clean Power Plan from a more personal 5


### perspective. As a person of faith, a leader in 6


### the faith community, I believe that God created 7


### the earth, the sky and the seas. And at the time 8


### of creation God declared it is good. 9


### God then entrusted human beings to be 10


### caretakers, to be responsible for that good 11


### creation. But unfortunately, we’ve not always 12



### been so resp onsible. Rather than using natural 13


### resources like fossil fuels in a sustainable way, 14


### we’ve often squandered them in selfish profit 15



### driven causes. 16


### While some continue to disagree with top 17



### scientists and world leaders, and fail to 18



### acknowledge the problems associated with climate 19


### change and global warming, there is generally 20


### accepted evidence suggesting that one of the 21


### primary causes is a result of the greenhouse 22

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### gases being produced by the burning of fossil 1


### fuels to generate electricity. 2



### These greenhouse gases released into the 3


### atmosphere up until recently with no limits are 4


### directly related to many other negative changes 5


### that are taking place. And while there are many 6



### causes of these greenhouse gases, by far one of 7


### the greatest causes is generating elect ricity. 8



### If we, who were entrusted to be 9


### caretakers of creation, if we have an opportunity 10


### to make a change that would ensure and leaving an 11



### environment that’s healthier for those who come 12


### after us, we have a moral imperative to do it. 13


### Reducing carbon em issions from power 14


### plants is a way for us to be a little more 15


### responsible, to be better caretakers and to leave 16


### a healthier planet behind. 17


### My second reason is a more personal 18


### reason. An increase of excessive high average 19


### temperatures is more than simply a matter of 20


### discomfort for me. I was diagnosed with multiple 21


### sclerosis almost 20 years ago. Thankfully, it’s 22

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### not yet been debilitating visibly, but my most 1


### common symptom is fatigue, which is brought on by 2


### increased core body temperature. 3


### There are simp le ways to remain cool, but 4


### increasing outdoor temperatures worries me. I 5


### recall hearing a presentation from the National 6



### Wildlife Federation from an executive that looked 7


### at average temperatures in southwestern 8


### Pennsylvania, and he noted that how our ave rage 9


### temperatures have increased over the past 25 10


### years, and he suggested that if those trends 11


### continue, that in 25 years, our average 12


### temperature here would resemble that of Virginia, 13


### and continuing on 25 more years, it would be more 14



### like Alabama. 15



### Now, t his strange weather pattern of this 16


### past week in southwestern Pennsylvania at the end 17


### of July might give people cause to dismiss my 18



### concern, but the accumulated temperature data 19



### stands and it troubles me. 20


### Most of us get uncomfortable in excess 21



### heat and hu midity. But for some of us it means 22

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### compromised health. 1


### I’m hopeful that the ELCA is going to do 2


### its job and foster our being more responsible 3


### caretakers, and I hope that clean air for all of 4


### God’s children is going to be a reality and that 5



### God can onc e again look down and say it is good. 6



### Thank you. 7



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you both very much. 8


### We’re going to take a short break. They didn’t 9


### tell me how long the break will be, so I wouldn’t 10


### stray off too far. But we’re going to take a 11



### brief break and the n we’ll reconvene, let’s 12



### say

-- have you got more speakers? 13


### FEMALE VOICE: I’ll bring more in. 14



### MR. WAYLAND: So do you want us to take 15



### the break or no? 16



### FEMALE VOICE: Yes. 17


### MR. WAYLAND: We’re going to take a five 18



### minute break, and then when we come back we’ll 19


### have Theodore Robinson and Joanne Kilgour to 20


### speak, but we’ll take five minutes. 21


### [Recess from 3:42 to 3:52 p.m.] 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Okay, we’re going to 1


### reconvene the hearing. I’d like to introduce the 2



### room to Christian Fellner. He’s here for the 3


### nighttime session and for the hearing sessions 4


### tomorrow, but he arrived a little bit early, so 5


### he’s going to join us for the remainder of this 6



### session this afternoon. 7


### First two speakers in this session will 8


### be Theodore Robinson and Joanne Kilgour. 9



### MR. R OBINSON: Good afternoon, and thank 10


### you for this opportunity today to testify. My 11



### name is Theodore Robinson, R

- o

- b

- i

- n

- s

- o

- n, and I 12


### am a staff attorney with Citizen Power, a 13



### non

- profit public policy research education and 14


### advocacy organization based in Pi ttsburgh. 15



### Since 1996 we have worked towards 16


### ensuring that low income consumers and 17


### environmental interests are represented in the 18


### operation of the electric generation industry. 19


### Citizen Power supports both the purpose 20



### and the general methodology of the EP A’s proposed 21


### rule. It is imperative that our nation 22

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### effectively regulates greenhouse gases. The four 1


### building blocks approach under section 111(d) is 2


### a reasonable and flexible step towards this goal 3


### I would like to emphasize, however, that 4



### we view this proposed rule as only part of the 5


### solution. Additional legislation is necessary in 6



### order to further reduce emissions. 7



### Although we generally support the 8



### proposed rule, our recommended changes to 9


### specific aspects of the rule will be addressed in 10



### our writte n comments. I would like to highlight 11



### three of these comments today. 12


### First, we believe that greater reductions 13


### than those proposed by the EPA are possible 14


### through the application of the best system of 15



### emission reduction. 16



### For example, the use of the target of 17


### eight to ten percent heat rate improvements for 18


### the existing fleet is supported by the existing 19


### literature and the low cost per ton of carbon 20



### dioxide. 21



### In addition, we believe that the EIA data 22

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### supports an energy efficiency ramp up level of .3 1



### pe rcent instead of the proposed .2 percent. 2


### Second, the proposed inclusion of new and 3


### preserved nuclear capacity is a substitute for 4


### carbon intensive generating capacity does not 5


### adequately reflect the future life cycle 6


### greenhouse gas emissions of nuclear facilities. 7


### While wind generation has a consistently 8


### small greenhouse gas profile, the impact of 9


### nuclear facilities is dependent upon the uranium 10


### mining technologies used, the quality of the 11



### uranium ore, the enrichment method and the carbon 12


### intensity of t he electricity used for enrichment. 13


### The future quality of uranium ore in 14


### particular may degrade as higher quality mines 15


### are depleted, resulting in a greater processing 16


### and a higher emissions in the future from nuclear 17


### generation. 18


### Additionally, the cost of disposing of 19



### nuclear waste, as well as the cost associated 20


### with the potential of a nuclear accident needs to 21


### be taken into account when estimating the cost of 22

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### reducing carbon emissions through increasing 1


### nuclear capacity. 2


### Third, the use of redispatchin g to 3


### substitute combined cycle natural gas for fossil 4


### fueled fired steam generation has impacts not 5


### addressed in the proposed rule. Specifically, 6


### the standard of performance must take into 7


### account the environmental impacts of non

- air 8


### quality health and en vironmental impacts. 9


### The impacts from fracking, which will be 10


### increased as a result of redispatching, such as 11


### impacts to water quality, should be addressed and 12


### quantified in the proposed rule. Thank you, 13


### again, for the opportunity to testify. 14



### MR. WAYLAN D: Thank you very much. Any 15


### questions? Okay. 16



### MS. KILGOUR: Good afternoon, and thank 17


### you for the opportunity to speak today. My name 18


### is Joanne Kilgour, J

- o

- a

- n

- n

- e, K

- i

- l

- g

- o

- u

- r. 19


### And I am the Director of the Pennsylvania Chapter 20



### of the Sierra Club. 21



### We have more than 24,500 members across 22

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### the Commonwealth and they are committed to 1


### outdoor recreation, protecting human health and 2


### the environment, and have long been leading 3



### climate advocates in their communities. 4


### I currently live in Lancaster County, 5



### Pe nnsylvania, which despite the pastoral image of 6



### Amish farms and river hills that the name 7


### invokes, has some of the worst air quality in the 8



### nation. 9


### My community is at risk, as are 31 of the 10



### 67 counties of the commonwealth, and will 11



### continue to be at ris k for generations to come 12


### unless we act now, taking swift and bold steps to 13


### address harmful air pollution. 14


### Across Pennsylvania alone we have nearly 15


### 285,000 children living with pediatric asthma, 16


### each of whom faces greater threat of medical 17


### complication be cause of exposure to ozone and 18


### particle pollution. 19


### The proposed Clean Power Plan provides an 20


### opportunity for us to improve public health such 21


### as these threats from childhood asthma, by 22

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### cleaning up the region’s air and helping to 1


### address climate disruption

. 2


### Through strong implementation of the 3


### Clean Power Plan we can achieve significant 4


### reductions in harmful air pollution, create new 5


### family sustaining jobs and realize the benefits 6


### of economic growth in the renewable energy 7


### industry. 8


### We all want a bright, healthy future for 9


### our families, and making meaningful improvements 10


### to air quality by reducing harmful pollution is 11


### essential to making that hope a reality. 12


### In Pennsylvania we have existing policies 13


### that will help us to meet nearly 60 percent of 14


### our requi red carbon pollution reductions. The 15


### commonwealth currently requires utilities to 16


### assist customers in saving electricity, and we 17


### have a law that requires eight percent of our 18



### energy to come from renewable sources by 2021. 19


### To work toward meeting a hundr ed percent 20


### of our reduction target, we can bring these 21


### existing policies in light with what leading 22

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### states are already achieving. We can double our 1


### annual savings from utility efficiency programs 2


### and increase the percentage of renewable energy 3


### required fr om eight percent to just 15 percent. 4


### In addition to helping Pennsylvania meet 5


### our carbon pollution reduction targets, renewable 6


### energy and energy efficiency can help to support 7


### jobs and our local economies. Wind energy 8


### manufacturing, construction and ope ration now 9


### employ at least 75,000 Americans. and the great 10


### majority of the components are sourced 11


### domestically. 12


### In 2013, the solar industry created 13


### 24,000 new jobs in this country. States 14


### neighboring Pennsylvania, such as Ohio and 15


### Michigan, are seeing a resurgence of 16


### manufacturing jobs in the clean energy sector 17


### revitalizing the Rust Belt. 18


### We want the same for Pennsylvania, and we 19


### can use the Clean Power Plan as an opportunity to 20


### bring these jobs to the Commonwealth. 21


### We also recognize that this plan ca n and 22

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### must be stronger if we want to see our 1


### communities become healthier and more prosperous. 2



### Therefore, one key to the success of the Clean 3


### Power Plan is making sure that we take full 4



### advantage of renewable energy and energy 5


### efficiency to minimize our r eliance on polluting 6


### fossil fuels of all kinds, including natural gas. 7



### The renewable energy and energy 8


### efficiency sectors are essential to achieving 9


### climate success and economic prosperity, and we 10



### need to fully embrace these pathways to a 11



### healthier future rather than holding onto the 12


### dirty fossil fuels of our past. Thank you. 13



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Any 14


### questions? No? Okay, thank you. 15


### Our next two speakers this afternoon will 16



### be Karen Melton and Kim Glas. 17



### MS. GLAS: Good afternoon. I’m Kimberly 18



### Glas, G

- l

- a

- s. I am the Executive Director of 19


### the Blue Green Alliance, and I thank you for the 20


### opportunity to testify about the proposed rule to 21


### limit carbon pollution from existing power 22

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### plants. 1



### As you’ve seen throughout the day there 2



### are stron g feelings on all sides of this issue. 3



### These voices can and must be heard as states 4


### develop to implement the final rule. 5



### The Blue Green Alliance is a national 6


### partnership of the country’s largest labor unions 7


### and most influential environmental organizati ons. 8


### We represent 16 million members and supporters 9


### working to turn today’s environmental challenges 10


### into job creating and economic opportunities. 11


### We support the EPA’s authority to limit 12


### carbon pollution from power plants. We are 13


### pleased that this rule permits each state to 14


### craft a compliance plan that is tailored to the 15


### specifics of its local and regional economy that 16


### will protect existing jobs while reducing 17


### emissions, and that can create opportunities to 18


### grow new jobs, encourage investment and jumpsta rt 19


### new technologies. This proposal can be a 20


### significant step forward if we all engage to 21


### develop and implement it. 22

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### There are three points I’d like to 1


### emphasize. First, the proposed rule sets 2


### reasonable targets for reducing carbon pollution 3



### that the fina l rule should retain. 4


### Second, the proposal’s flexible 5


### compliance approach is essential to its success. 6


### And third, community and workforce 7


### stability and development should be integral 8


### elements of any carbon reduction strategy. 9


### I will just say a few w ords on each 10


### point. First, the reduction targets are 11


### reasonable. In the aggregate, the proposal will 12


### help cut carbon pollution from power plants by 30 13


### percent from the 2005 levels. This is a 14


### significant step forward. 15


### Second, the proposal offers maximum 16


### flexibility for compliance. Each state can 17



### determine for itself which carbon reduction 18



### mechanisms make the most sense for its citizens, 19


### its workers and its economy. 20


### For example, a state with multiple coal 21


### plants can encourage improvements in both supply 22

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### and demand. Technological changes can increase 1



### the supply of power produced by each ton of coal. 2


### Boosting end use energy efficient tools will 3


### reduce demand for electricity during peak hours. 4


### A state whose power comes principally 5


### from gas plants may ins titute diversification in 6



### its centers. A state can also authorize carbon 7


### capture and storage mechanisms to reduce 8


### emissions from existing coal plants. This 9



### technology recently announced the Department of 10


### Energy is actually helping to fund construction 11



### of the largest post combustion carbon capture 12


### project in the world, the Petra Nova Project in 13


### Texas, which was just announced a few weeks ago. 14


### This is projected to capture 90 percent 15



### of the carbon dioxide emissions from one of the 16



### plant’s generators. The B lue Green Alliance 17


### urges the EPA to include in the final rule 18


### language, encouraging states to use carbon 19


### capture mechanisms as a compliance tool. 20


### Finally, I’d like to address community 21


### and economic stability and development. 22

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### Regardless of any action to a ddress climate 1


### change, the U.S. is in the midst of an energy 2



### transition, and that in some cases can lead to 3


### job loss. 4


### A proper transition means direct support 5


### for workers by providing wages, benefits, 6


### training, education and the recognition of basic 7



### wor ker’s rights. It also means providing a 8


### community with resources to redevelop its economy 9


### and create high paying jobs that can match or 10



### exceed those that may have been lost. 11


### The private sector, including utilities 12


### in all levels of government must work in tandem 13



### with communities to make these transitions a 14



### success. We believe that if well crafted, the 15


### Clean Power Plan has a potential to create and 16


### sustain quality family sustaining jobs across the 17



### country. 18


### The potential can only be realized by 19



### engagement with stakeholders to develop a plan 20


### that includes adequately funded programs to meet 21



### the needs of workers and their industries, as 22

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### well as the communities and states in which they 1



### live. 2


### We, at the Blue Green Alliance, applaud 3


### the EPA for moving forward an d addressing the 4


### threat of climate change, and we look forward to 5



### wo rking in states to develop well

- crafted 6


### implementation plans that achieve these goals. 7



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Any 8


### questions on the testimony? Okay. 9


### MS. MELTON: My name is Karen with a K, 10



### Melton, M

- e

- l

- t

- o

- n, and I am testifying on 11


### behalf of the Chester County Citizens for Climate 12


### Protection, a 501(c)(3) organization dedicated to 13


### public outreach and education on climate change. 14



### I spent the last two days at the Clean 15



### Power Plan hearing in Washington, and after 16


### listening to all of that testimony I threw away 17


### the remarks I had prepared and will instead talk 18


### about a dynamic I see at these hearings. 19


### The two sides on this proposal are not 20


### really talking to each other. Each sid e is going 21


### through their talking points, but doing little to 22

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### address the other side’s concerns. 1



### We environmentalist think if we make our 2


### points clearly and cite lots of studies and 3


### evidence and we share personal stories, and we 4


### bring our children to empha size what’s at stake 5


### the other side will finally get it. 6


### Those representing fossil fuels never 7


### respond to our evidence, they only present 8


### industry talking points. So I’d like to quickly 9


### respond to some of those points that I hear most 10


### often raised by i ndustry just to show we are 11


### listening and we’re thinking about those issues. 12


### One, all off America depends on cheap 13


### energy supplied by coal. Response. Coal energy 14


### looks cheap on our utility bills, but that’s only 15


### because many billions of dollars and exte rnality 16


### costs are paid for elsewhere. If they were 17


### included, studies show the cost of coal powered 18


### electricity would be two to three times higher. 19



### Two, fossil fuels are reliable. And 20



### here, reliable is shorthand for the sun doesn’t 21


### always shine and the w ind doesn’t always blow. 22

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### We actually know that, but the wind blows more at 1


### night, which helps balance out the daytime sun, 2


### and across a region with turbines in multiple 3


### locations, the wind is always blowing somewhere, 4


### which allows for predictable levels o f production 5



### across those locations. 6



### And there are many energy storage 7


### technologies available today and in prototype and 8


### on the drawing boards. The Clean Power Plan, by 9


### the way, will help direct resources to those 10


### storage technologies. 11



### Three, good pay ing jobs are at stake. 12



### Absolutely, we understand that. We need to make 13


### sure there is a just transition to family 14


### sustaining jobs for displaced fossil fuel 15


### workers. And we are committed to working on that 16


### with the unions, however, preventing the loss of 17


### these jobs is not a justification for destroying 18



### the planet. 19



### Four, the Clean Power Plan is a token 20


### gesture. As far as I can tell the narrative here 21


### is that there is no point in the U.S. doing 22

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### anything because China and India will continue to 1


### grow their u se of fossil fuels. 2


### Are they following what’s happening with 3



### the U.S.

- China Climate Change Working Group? Do 4


### they know how much more solar China has installed 5


### than the U.S. already? Do they know that earlier 6


### this year India announced plans for anothe r 7,500 7


### megawatts of solar power. The world is passing 8


### the U.S. by in the transition to clean energy 9



### economy. And unfortunately, the U.S. has refused 10



### to be a leader in this area. 11


### America will no longer be competitive if 12


### energy costs rise. I think Ameri ca will learn 13


### the lesson of efficiency that a number of other 14


### countries already know. There’s no reason why we 15



### have cable boxes that continue to use the same 16


### amount of energy after we turn them off than this 17



### myth of cheap energy. 18


### Six, the grid can’t hand le distributed 19


### energy. Well, we build a grid based on the 20


### constraints of centralized fossil fuel energy. 21


### We can modify it to support distributed energy. 22

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### Maybe just because I’m not entrenched in the 1


### details of how fossil fuel electricity works that 2



### I can envision an America where people are 3


### conscious of how the use energy because the true 4



### cost is on their electric bill, it’s not hidden 5



### in fossil fuel related health care cost, direct 6


### tax credits and the virtual give

- away of coal 7


### leases on public lands by t he Bureau of Land 8


### Management just to name a few. 9


### In America where your microwave doesn’t 10


### use more energy in its lifetime powering the 11


### digital clock than it does cooking food, an 12


### America where buildings are built with highly 13


### efficient heating and cooling, where pretty much 14


### every new building has some solar PV capability, 15


### where electric cars can be plugged in overnight 16


### or while people are at work, and if needed, give 17


### some power back to the grid. There’s a 18


### demonstration project of this vehicle to grid 19



### techno logy right now at the University of 20



### Delaware. 21


### This isn’t a return to the Stone Age as 22

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### industry would like us to believe. It’s a new 1


### energy paradigm. I know it won’t be easy and it 2


### will take many years to accomplish, but in the 3



### words of former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, 4


### we do not face a choice between protecting our 5


### environment or protecting our economy, we face a 6


### choice between protecting our economy by 7


### protecting our environment, or allowing 8



### environmental havoc to create economic havoc. 9



### EPA, pl ease move forward with your Clean 10



### Power Plan. It’s a start, but let’s come back in 11


### a couple of years to talk about increasing the 12



### state targets. Thank you. 13



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. The 14


### next two speakers this afternoon will be Diana 15



### Aimes an d Melanie McCoy. 16


### MS. AIMES: Good afternoon. My name is 17


### Diana Aimes and thank you for the opportunity to 18


### speak in support of adopting strong carbon 19


### pollution limits on existing power plants. 20


### Limiting emissions from existing power 21


### plants, which comprise the nation’s largest 22

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### source of carbon pollution is a critical step 1


### toward mitigating devastating climate change. 2


### The fossil fuel industry cites energy 3


### cost increases and job losses as reasons to 4


### reject carbon emission standards. But what about 5



### the cost of extreme weather events, heat waves, 6



### drought, loss of crops and livestock, 7


### catastrophic storms, flooding and fires all have 8


### economic consequences and all are exacerbated by 9


### climate change. 10



### And what about the cost of heart attacks, 11



### or asthma, and other respiratory diseases, and 12


### the resulting loss of job productivity and 13



### sometimes life, itself? 14


### As for the job loss issue, I’d like to 15



### share the story of my grandmother’s brother, Ira 16


### Brosious (phonetic), who was born in 1884 and by 17


### age 16 was working as a b lacksmith in rural 18


### Jefferson County, Pennsylvania. 19


### By the time of the 1910 census, Uncle Ira 20


### had expanded his skills and become a carriage 21


### builder. The nascent auto industry made rapid 22

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### gains during the first decade of the 20th 1



### century, and by 1910 carr iage makers were already 2


### realizing that for many purposes, the auto worked 3


### much better, faster and more economically than 4



### horse

- drawn carriages could. So makers of 5


### carriages, including Uncle Ira, took 6


### opportunities presented by the new industry. 7


### Carriage makers were well positioned to 8


### transition into building auto bodies or to 9


### becoming mechanics, which is exactly what my 10


### Uncle Ira was doing by 1920. 11


### By 1930 Uncle Ira put his mechanical 12


### talents to use as a drilling contractor in the 13


### oil and gas industry. As times and technology 14


### changed, Uncle Ira learned new skills and stayed 15


### employed. And if he were around today I think 16


### he’d probably be building and installing solar 17



### panels. 18



### The renewable energy and energy 19


### efficiency sectors offer much opportunity for 20



### w illing workers, and I believe that part of the 21


### action plan for dealing with climate change 22

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### should include assisting workers who wish to 1


### retrain for renewable energy jobs. 2


### It is time for action. Climate change 3


### poses enormous and serious threats to nationa l 4


### security, human health, and the environment. I 5


### want to make it clear the proposed EPA carbon 6


### emission standards are a good start, but I 7


### believe that American ingenuity and enterprise 8



### can accommodate a much faster reduction in 9


### greenhouse gases if there i s the political will 10



### to do so. 11


### There is no more imperative issue than 12


### climate change. We, in the United States must 13


### cut our carbon emissions by a significant amount. 14


### We must set an example for India, China and the 15


### rest of the world, and it is imperativ e that we 16



### do it now. 17


### I urge the EPA not only to move swiftly 18


### forward with implementing the carbon emission 19


### standards on existing power plants, but also to 20



### make them much stronger than those currently 21



### proposed. Thank you very much. 22

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### MR. WAYLAND: Than k you very much. 1



### MS. MCCOY: Hi. Before I start I’d like 2



### to say I have solar panels on my house and I 3


### drive a Volt. But I do represent the Michigan 4


### Municipal Electric Association. I’m Melanie 5



### McCoy, M

- c

- C

- o

- y, and I’m the general manager of 6


### a municip al public power system located in 7


### Sebewaing, Michigan. It’s a rural agricultural 8


### village of almost 2000 people in the very tip of 9


### the Michigan thumb. I have my map here with me. 10



### I also serve as the President of the 11


### Board of the Michigan Municipal Electr ical 12



### Association or MMEA, which is a state association 13


### of more than 40 municipal power systems, some of 14


### which owe and operate 17 fossil fired plants, 15



### most of them under 80 megawatts that may be 16


### impacted by the rule. 17


### I speak on both Sebewaing’s and MMEA’s 18


### behalf today asking for that balance between 19


### carbon reduction and electricity cost. 20



### Non

- profit municipal utilities and their 21


### power systems are critical to local communities 22

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### across the nation. Despite the small size of 1


### many of these public systems and the ir power 2


### plants, these utilities are essential for 3


### electric reliability, low electric prices and 4


### energy supplied diversity. 5


### All MMEA systems are small entities under 6



### the small business statute. We’re also local 7



### communities that have a commitment to 8



### envir onmental stewardship, clean energy, but must 9


### balance that with cost, economics, jobs and 10


### community concerns. 11


### I’m here because Michigan Public Power 12


### and other municipal systems are concerned that we 13


### will bear the brunt of the EPA’s proposed Clean 14



### Power Pla n in ways that could put some of our 15



### communities at risk. 16


### Our small plants will suffer due to the 17


### economy as scales, involved with changes to these 18



### units with small customer basis. This would 19


### include diseconomies in trying to achieve the 20


### optimistic heat rate efficiency improvements at 21



### these plants. If we knew there were 22

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### efficiencies, we would make them, we do every 1



### day. 2


### But as is suggesting in the Building 3


### Block 1, many of the Michigan public power 4


### systems have only a single basic unit or a very 5



### small n umber of units, so there is no ability to 6


### redispatch to a lower emitting unit or apply 7


### controls flexibly across multiple unites. 8



### Often these units are located in isolated 9


### rural load pocket areas which there is limited 10


### available options for securing power. Likewise, 11


### from municipal services without their own 12


### generators like in Sebewaing, we have no ability 13


### to influence the pollution control choices that 14


### will be made by our energy suppliers and will be 15


### subject to the higher cost of the environmental 16


### dispatch that may affect our supplies because of 17



### the rule. 18


### EPA, itself, has said that they recognize 19


### that the proposed rules that municipal utilities, 20


### small entities and utilities with only one unit 21



### may suffer. 22

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### Other public power concerns are there is 1



### no room fo r economic growth. The rule does not 2


### provide an adequate factor for economic load 3


### growth and will thus negatively affect us for 4


### growing our manufacturing jobs and our local and 5


### state economies. Michigan in my area is still 6


### recovering and we’re still kind of on the edge of 7



### the recession. 8



### Number two, it’s disconnected from other 9


### Clean Air Act rules. The proposed carbon 10


### emission rule may force the closure of small 11


### public power plants that have already invested 12


### millions of dollars to address requirements un der 13


### EPA’s Clean Air Act rules for NOx, SO2 mercury 14



### and other pollutants. 15



### And three, there’s no credit for clean 16


### energy actions. EPA’s proposed rule also 17


### provides no credit for plant improvements, energy 18


### efficiency programs and renewable energy projects 19



### u ndertaken by utilities between the proposed 20


### baseline rule of 2005 and the proposed start date 21



### of 2012. This includes investment in small 22

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### exiting hydroelectric plants of 10 megawatts or 1



### less. 2



### I spent years as general manager of 3


### Wyandotte Municipal just so uth of Detroit where 4



### we undertook one of the most ambitious efforts in 5



### the nation to transform our fossil fired 6


### community to a green energy community. Using the 7



### resources from the Obama Administration’s EPA and 8


### the DOE, plus our own resources, we lost maj or 9


### energy efficiency, programs for our residents. 10


### We installed the largest solar project in the 11


### state of Michigan on a public building and we 12


### launched a major downtown geothermal project. 13



### All of this was between 2009 and 2012. 14



### Under EPA’s proposed rule none of that counts for 15


### Wyhandotte, or others like them which essentially 16


### is punishing their progressive clean energy 17



### communities. 18


### Given these concerns, the Michigan Public 19



### Power asks EPA to one, set the effected EGU 20



### threshold at greater than 73 megawatts and not 21


### use the 260 million BTU’s of heat input as the 22

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### threshold. 1


### Two, include small, less than 10 megawatt 2


### existing hydro in the state goal calculations. 3



### Three, make clear that states can and 4


### ought to subcategorize effected EGU sources to 5



### address sma ll municipal systems and unit 6



### concerns. 7



### And four, make sure the rule has maximum 8


### flexibility to enable states to address muni cipal 9



### power concerns. States ne ed time and flexibility 10


### to design interstate and interstate carbon 11


### trading and needs more room. T hank you very 12


### much, I ran out of time. I’ll submit my comments 13


### in writing. Thank you. 14



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 15



### MS. MCCOY: Uh

- huh. 16


### MR. WAYLAND: And if you have more there 17


### you can just leave it here and we’ll get it 18



### included in the record. 19



### MS. MCCOY: Okay, great. Okay, thank 20



### you. 21



### MR. WAYLAND: But you’re also welcome, as 22

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### I said earlier, to submit more. 1


### MS. MCCOY: And we probably will. Thank 2



### you. 3



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Our 4


### next two speakers this afternoon will be Veron ica 5


### Coptis and David Moscatello. 6


### MS. COPTIS: Hello. My name is Veronica 7


### Coptis, C

- o

- p

- t

- i

- s, and I am a community 8


### organizer with the Center for Coal Field Justice. 9


### I grew up in the coal fields not too far from 10


### here in Greene County, Pennsylvania, and I grew 11


### up next to the largest coal processing facility 12


### in the country. And I currently now live 13


### surrounded by Shell gas activity on the other 14


### side of the county. 15


### Thankfully, a dirty coal fired power 16


### plant less than five miles away from my home 17


### recently id led, but without strong rules still 18


### has the potential to reopen. 19


### I appreciate the opportunity to comment 20


### on the U.S. EPA’s Clean Power Plan for Existing 21



### Power Plants and Carbon Pollution Standard for 22

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### Modified Sources. These rules are a small step 1



### in the right direction. The result of this plan 2


### will have a significant impact to my life and the 3



### communities on the front lines of coal extraction 4


### and combustion across the county. 5


### The EPA has a responsibility to make sure 6


### that that impact is for the better. For too many 7


### years my friends and family have suffered serious 8


### health impacts from the life cycle of coal. All 9



### too often coal extraction and combustion and 10


### power plants occur in designated environmental 11


### justice areas, communities with large minority 12



### popul ations and/or low income levels. 13


### In fact, environmental justice areas are 14


### expanding in southwestern Pennsylvania following 15


### the industry’s reckless pursuit of coal at all 16


### cost. Corporations take advantage of these areas 17


### and have for generations. 18



### The EPA needs to makes sure these carbon 19


### rules are as stringent as possible to offer much 20


### needed relief to people living within the dirty 21


### coal cycle like my community. 22

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### In southwestern Pennsylvania many of the 1


### coal filed areas are also exploding with shale 2



### gas ex traction. So without a plan that focuses 3



### on renewables, these same communities will see 4


### shale gas drilling increase even more as power 5



### plants convert to gas. 6


### This will not alleviate the negative 7


### health impacts we’re already seeing from the coal 8



### cycle, because the extraction of gas has serious 9


### health impacts as well in massive methane 10


### emissions that would just increase the damages of 11


### climate change. 12


### It is clear that these new regulations 13


### are going to create significant changes to front 14



### line communities and the EPA has a responsibility 15


### to make sure those are just and equitable. 16


### This transition will have many great 17


### improvements to our communities, but if those 18


### most impacted are not part of the conversation, 19


### there will also be negative impacts to those 20



### liv ing on the front lines. This absolutely 21



### includes the coal miners who are here and were 22

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### here today, and those who couldn’t make the trip. 1


### I doubt very much that anyone here today will 2


### argue against the benefit of clean air and clean 3



### water. 4



### What is a real concern for myself and the 5


### folks in my community is that whatever comes next 6


### when we move beyond coal, those of us in the coal 7



### fields will be left behind. And as I said 8


### before, those who stand to be the most impacted 9


### must play an active role in this conv ersation on 10



### transition. 11


### Without smart steps toward reducing 12


### carbon emissions and adjust transition moving 13


### beyond all fossil fuels, areas like Greene County 14


### are not going to have a promising future. I 15


### often wonder if I will be able to raise a healthy 16



### fami ly in the area and community I love. It is 17


### crucial for the future of my future and the 18



### future of all of our children that the EPA take 19


### the strongest standards as possible. Thank you. 20



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. 21


### MR. MOSCATELLO: My name is Dav id 22

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### Moscatello, M

- o

- s

- c

- a

- t

- e

- l

- l

- o, from 1


### Philadelphia. I’m representing the Sierra Club, 2


### and myself, and a dozen other environmental 3



### groups. 4



### I strongly support the EPA’s effort to 5


### limit carbon pollution from power plants. 6


### Reducing pollution from these p ower plants is an 7


### essential step to reduce other directly harmful 8


### pollutants and to address climate change. 9


### Speaking of those other pollutants, I look 10


### forward to some serious coal ash regulations. 11


### The flexible standards proposed by the 12



### EPA to cut carbon emissions from power plants by 13



### at least 30 percent by 2005

-- below 2005 levels 14


### by 2030 are readily achievable using existing 15


### technologies. We can replace the retired dirty 16


### coal plants with geothermal, solar and wind 17


### energy, and the growth in these indust ries will 18


### more than replace the jobs lost from the coal 19


### industry. 20


### Last year wind energy contributed just 21


### over four percent of total U.S. electricity, up 22

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### from under two percent just five years ago. As 1


### of 2014 we have 61 gigawatts of wind capacity 2



### installe d and greater than 12 gigawatts under 3


### construction this year. And I should mention 4


### that China has more installed wind capacity than 5



### we do to date. 6



### At the end of 2013, nearly 80,000 workers 7


### were employed in wind industry and related jobs 8



### in the U.S.A. Th is is nearly as many workers as 9



### all the coal miners in the U.S. at this time, and 10


### most of these jobs have been created since 2005. 11


### In fact, according to the American Wind Energy 12


### Association, more than 89 percent of all U.S. 13


### wind capacity has been installe d since 2005. 14


### Prior to that only one wind turbine 15


### manufacturer assembled utility scale turbines in 16



### the U.S. By the end of 2012 there were twelve 17


### nacelle assembly facilities on line. This growth 18


### and U.S. wind related manufacturing has occurred 19



### across the entire supply chain with over 500 wind 20


### related manufacturing facilities across 44 states 21


### supplying components to the industry. So nearly 22

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### 70 percent of U.S. deployed turbines, value is 1


### not being manufactured domestically. 2



### In addition to the direct manufa cturing 3


### maintenance jobs, wind turbines have become a 4



### drought proof cash crop for farmers and ranchers 5



### who host turbines on their land. 6


### Lessons from the wind farms deployed to 7


### date have resulted in substantial improvements in 8


### turbine technology with tur bines getting larger 9


### and more efficient and now including energy 10


### storage for individual turbines to smooth out the 11



### energy supply. 12



### 2013 solar was the second largest source 13


### of new electricity generating capacity in the 14



### U.S., exceeded only by, unfortunately, natural 15


### gas, by 41 percent over 2012, and nearly 15 times 16



### the amount installed in 2008. 17


### The price of solar PV has dropped more 18


### than 75 percent since 2008 and was 15 percent 19



### less at the end of 2013 to 2012. And more solar 20



### has been installed in the U.S. in the last 18 21


### months than in the prior 30 years. We’re 22

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### starting to see progress from our experience. 1


### Not only are prices for both solar and 2


### wind power dropping rapidly, but efficiency is 3


### increasing and new types of batteries are being 4



### deployed to smoot h out the availability. 5


### Furthermore, no state, Pennsylvania 6


### included, has to go it alone any more than we do 7


### now. Given the proximity to the rest of the 8



### densely populated mid

- Atlantic and northeastern 9


### states, offshore wind is an essential part of our 10



### win d resources that we haven’t begun to tap. 11


### Studies of our actual regional grid, PJM 12


### grid, encompassing Pennsylvania, New Jersey, 13


### Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, West Virginia, and 14


### Ohio and parts of several other states have found 15



### that combinations of solar , wind and electro 16


### chemical storage can power the grid with up to 17


### 99.9 percent reliability, tossing that old line 18


### that the sun doesn’t always shine and the wind 19


### doesn’t always blow into the dust bin of retired 20



### excuses. 21



### It’s true that this measure alone wo n’t 22

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### reverse global warming, but it’s a good step in 1


### the right direction. And by pushing the required 2


### renewable technologies now, the Unites States can 3


### gain a competitive advantage, true energy 4


### independence and substantially enhance national 5


### security. An d this will certainly beat trying 6


### to buy the same technology from China 20 years 7



### from now. 8


### Yes, every nation in the world needs to 9


### address the same questions, but we don’t control 10



### the world, and the fact that some countries 11


### behave badly in this regard is no reason to dodge 12


### our own responsibilities. We will not lead from 13


### behind. Thank you. 14



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you both very much. 15


### David, do you want to leave your remarks? 16


### Okay, we’re going to try to get through 17



### four more speakers here before we take t he dinner 18


### break. So our next two speakers will be Seth 19


### Long and Sharon Pillar. 20


### MR. LONG: Hi, my name is Seth Long. 21


### Actually, I’ll be reading the testimony of Dylan 22

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### Voorhees, who is unable to be here. Dillon is 1


### the Clean Energy Director of the National 2


### Resources Council in Maine, and his testimony is 3


### in support of those proposed carbon rules. 4



### The National Resources Council of Maine 5



### is a non

- profit membership organization 6


### representing about 12,000 members and activists 7


### working to protect, restore and c onserve Maine’s 8


### environment and improve the air quality, improve 9


### clean energy and advocate for action on climate 10


### change, which are high priorities for me. 11


### Dylan believes

-- Dylan and the Clean 12



### Energy

-- excuse me, Dylan and the National 13



### Resources Council of Maine believe that EPA’s 14


### proposed carbon pollution standards for power 15


### plants are essential to protecting Maine’s people 16


### and the environment, most importantly because 17



### Maine’s environment is tied to the state’s 18


### culture and economy in unique ways making it 19


### especially critical that climate change is 20


### addressed and power plant air pollution reduced. 21


### Folks all across Maine care deeply about 22

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### climate and its impact on the state. There are a 1


### few words that Dylan wanted to convey, in 2


### particular from Harry Dwyer , a logger and 3


### licensed forester from Fayette, Maine. Sadly, 4


### Harry had passed away in 2013 but his story and 5


### legacy live on. 6


### His story also rings true for other rural 7


### and agricultural area like Mounds, where I’m 8


### from. Harry says I don’t think climate change is 9


### a future problem. I think we’re in the midst of 10


### it right now and I’ve been absorbing the economic 11


### cost of lost work time when heavy rain shuts us 12


### down and we are waiting for the ground to freeze 13


### to start a logging job. 14


### Ten or fifteen years ago we didn’t have 15


### to worry about the insects carrying Lyme disease 16


### in central Maine. Now I’m picking ticks off 17


### hours after I get home. They just weren’t here 18



### because we used to have those cold winters and I 19



### kept them at bay. 20



### I’m a parent and the world w e hand off to 21



### our children matters more to me than the lost 22

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### work time and the economic cost of these things. 1


### Our asthma rates, especially in childhood asthma 2


### are far higher than is morally or ethically 3


### defensible. If you ever laid away at night 4


### listening to your child struggle to breathe, and 5


### then to go everywhere with an inhaler, wondering 6


### at what point are we going to go to the hospital 7



### because the inhaler and nebulizer are not 8


### helping? Then you will agree that these rules 9



### are long overdue. 10


### Quoting Ha rry’s files, the main people 11


### caught in the crossfire of warming and pollution, 12


### a vulnerable spot but will only get worse. 13



### And the loss of traditional winter and 14


### declining habitat for species have increased in 15



### base of past, present and throughout to the 16



### fo rest products, industry in Maine and I would 17



### add other states. 18


### I’m talking about over 23,000 kids in 19


### Maine suffering from asthma. Thank you and I’ll 20


### submit Dylan’s testimony in writing as well. 21



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you, very much. 22

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### MS. PILLAR: Hello. M y name is Sharon 1


### Pillar. P, as in Pittsburgh, i

- l

- l

- a

- r. I am 2



### the elected President of the Solar Unified 3


### Network of Western Pennsylvania or SUNWP, as we 4


### say. Our region’s industry and advocacy group 5


### comprised of solar developers, installers, solar 6



### owner s, non

- profit organizations and individuals 7


### interested in deploying more solar power. 8


### And I am employed as the Vice

- President 9


### of Smart Pounder, the nation’s leading non

- profit 10


### marketing firm dedicated to promoting clean, 11


### renewable energy, and energy effi ciency to help 12


### American’s make smart energy choices. 13



### We at SUNWP wholeheartedly support the 14



### EPA’s Clean Power Plan to curb carbon emissions 15


### from existing electricity sources. For western 16


### Pennsylvania this change has significant and 17


### important ramification s and opportunities. 18


### One important question that we ask is can 19


### we achieve these proposed reductions? And the 20


### answer, we feel, is a resounding yes. The 21


### renewable energy labs conducted a technical 22

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### feasibility study of solar potential and found 1



### that Pennsy lvania has the technical capability to 2


### produce more than 600,000 gigawatt hours of 3


### electricity through solar every year, which is 4



### almost four

- and

- a

- half times our current retail 5


### sales of electricity in our state. 6


### We have an enormous potential, a source 7



### of clean energy that is severely underutilized

. 8


### The second important question we ask is 9


### should we try to achieve these reductions. And 10


### again, our answer is a resounding yes. 11


### In addition to mitigating the disastrous 12


### impacts of climate change, reducing car bon output 13



### from power plants through the use of clean energy 14


### and energy efficiency has immediate benefits to 15


### the health of the people of our region. 16


### A Carnegie Mellon University study last 17


### year showed that the societal benefits of 18


### replacing carbon intensi ve fuels with wind and 19


### solar have far greater environmental and health 20


### benefits in Ohio, here in Pennsylvania and West 21


### Virginia than in anywhere else in the country 22

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### because our air quality presents more health 1


### risks than anywhere else in the nature. 2



### Solar electricity in Pennsylvania 3


### provides $75 per megawatt hour in health and 4


### environmental benefits every year, fifteen times 5


### more than the same solar production as you would 6



### find in a state like Arizona, because it 7


### displaces our dirty air from fossil fuels. 8


### Transitioning to renewables is a good 9


### investment in Pennsylvania for our economy and 10


### most importantly for the health of our people. 11


### And speaking of good investment, a homeowner who 12


### continues to rent their electricity from a fossil 13


### fuel intensive utility will pay out more than 14


### $30,000 in electricity payments over the next 25 15


### years. Whereas the same homeowner who invests in 16


### solar today will save and profit with more than 17


### $20,000 over that same time period. Solar does 18



### make economic sense. 19



### Solar energy als o has proven benefits to 20


### the electricity grid and it operates at full 21


### force during the hottest hours of the year and 22

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### shaves expensive peak demand, and in turn keeping 1


### down the cost of electricity for all ratepayers. 2


### Investments in clean energy will 3



### transf orm our economy and bring thousands of new 4


### jobs to our region. We do understand that this 5



### transition will alter the workforce and 6



### therefore, we encourage the state and federal 7


### leaders to attract clean energy job training and 8


### companies to those locations w here fossil fuel 9


### jobs will be eliminated so that our citizens can 10


### continue to provide for their families in their 11



### communities. 12



### And yes, we do need to update the hundred 13


### year old transmission systems to accommodate new 14


### technologies, just as we have done wi th our 15


### transportation, information and health care 16



### technology systems. We no longer transport goods 17


### by canal, use telegraphs or typewriters and it’s 18



### unthinkable that we’d not use antibiotics to cure 19



### common infections. 20


### We must move our energy systems into the 21



### 21st century as well for the health and well

22

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### being of our people, our economy and our planet. 1


### The fossil fuel dominate electricity system is 2


### antiquated, dirty and very dangerous. We can and 3



### we should lead the world on carbon reductions, 4



### and we appla ud the EPA for your leadership. 5



### Thank you very much. 6



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Any 7


### questions from the panel? No? Thank you very 8



### much. 9


### Okay, our last two speakers this 10



### afternoon before we break for dinner will be Lea 11


### Geisse and Douglas Sh ields. 12


### MS. GEISSE: Hello, my name is Lea 13



### Geisse. I’m a 27

- year maintenance employee, 14


### proud third generation union member from Canton, 15


### Ohio, and I’m the Regional Program Manager from 16



### the Blue Green Alliance. 17


### We, at the Blue Green Alliance are guided 18



### by simple philosophy. We believe that Americans 19


### don’t have to choose between good jobs and a 20



### clean environment. We can and must have both. 21



### We also believe that unions are and must 22

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### continue to be a power voice for protecting 1



### workers, communities, and our e nvironment. A 2


### changing climate is a threat to our health, to 3


### our communities and to the economy. We must act. 4


### It’s why we support the Environmental 5


### Protection Agency’s authority to implement 6


### standards that limit carbon pollution from 7


### existing sources. 8


### The first ever proposed limits on 9


### emissions from existing power plants are a step 10


### forward as we work to tackle climate change while 11


### ensuring power reliability and fostering economic 12


### stability. 13


### We’re pleased that this rule permits each 14



### state to craft a c ompliance plan that is tailored 15


### to specifics of its regional and local economy. 16


### That will protect existing jobs while reducing 17


### emissions. And that we can create opportunities 18


### to grow new jobs, encourage investments and 19


### jumpstart new technologies. 20



### The plan that’s best for Ohio will be 21


### crafted by Ohioans. This proposal can be a 22

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### significant step forward if we all engage to 1


### develop and implement it. States must be 2


### encouraged to include labor voices in these 3



### discussions. 4



### While this is about the environ ment, it’s 5


### also about making the power supply as reliable 6


### and efficient as possible. Over ten years ago a 7


### computer glitch and a tree branch caused the 8


### biggest blackout we’ve ever seen, while this 9


### historic power outage began in Ohio and affected 10



### 50 million people in eight states and parts of 11



### Canada. 12


### The Clean Power Plan will promote 13


### innovative ways to upgrade and invest in our 14


### electric grid and overall infrastructure. It’s 15


### imperative that we make these investments to 16


### prevent infrastructure failures like the 2003 17



### blackout. 18


### Along those same lines the emphasis the 19


### plan places on expanding renewable energy and 20


### energy efficiency efforts is a good one. 21


### Governor Kasich bowed to special interests and 22

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### froze Ohio’s renewable energy standard. We must 1



### reverse tha t course because the state will be 2


### better positioned to diversify our energy 3


### portfolio by making renewables a bigger portion 4


### of the state’s energy mix. 5


### If we do this right the Clean Power Plan 6


### has the potential to create and sustain quality 7


### family sustain ing jobs across the country. Each 8


### state has the opportunity to craft a plan that 9



### works for them. 10


### And the Blue Green Alliance is working in 11


### Ohio and around the country to make sure that the 12


### voice of working people is brought to the 13


### planning process. We w ill continue to work to 14


### make sure this gets done the right way, and that 15


### workers have a say in their economic and 16


### environmental future. Thank you. 17



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. Any 18


### questions? 19


### MR. SHIELDS: Good day. My name is 20


### Douglas Shields. I’ll spell it. Douglas A. 21



### S

- h

- i

- e

- l

- d

- s. I’m a resident of the city of the 22

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### city of Pittsburgh. I was formerly a litigation 1


### paralegal in the environmental law sector for 2


### corporate work here in Pittsburgh. I have also 3


### served 20 years in Pittsburgh Cit y Council as a 4



### staffer, four years as a member

-- or eight years 5


### as a member, four years as president of 6


### Pittsburgh City Council, during which time I 7


### introduced legislation to ban shale gas 8


### exploitation in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, the 9


### first in the country , on November 16, 2010. 10


### Today I am very happy to know that EPA is 11


### taking the peoples’ testimony. Today you 12


### probably heard from those who claim that clean 13


### air and public health is secondary to economic 14


### benefits and corporate profit. 15



### I would hope that the EPA recognizes its 16


### mission as an agency to protect the environment 17


### so that we, the people, may all live a healthier 18


### life. Critics paint the pictures usual of doom 19


### and gloom in a fossil free energy world. 20


### Unfortunately, that isn’t the case given the 21



### sust ainable energy systems coming online now for 22

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### decades. This is not new technology or unproven 1



### technology. 2


### Unfortunately, that isn’t the case as so 3


### stated that I’ve heard yesterday at rallies led 4


### by the Governor of Pennsylvania and today’s 5



### demonstrations a nd so forth. Critics always 6


### paint a picture of doom and gloom in a fossil 7



### fuel energy world. 8


### Unfortunately, that isn’t the case given 9


### the sustainable energy systems that we have 10


### available to us to replace fossil fuels 11


### As was the case when the nation beg an to 12


### recycle. This would kill industry, increase cost 13


### for citizens for paper. Well, guess what 14


### happened? New industries came into being, new 15


### jobs were created. New efficiencies in market 16



### were developed. 17


### Again, critics seen

-- a progress always 18



### seemed to offer the all or nothing proposition. 19


### It won’t do this, it won’t do that, the lights 20


### will go off and we’ll all be out of work. That’s 21


### what I keep hearing today. 22

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### But history teaches us that time and 1


### again these critics have been proven wrong. Seat 2



### b elts in cars did not kill the automobile, they 3



### saved lives. Environmental laws did not kill 4


### industry, they created new ones. 5



### We know that these proposed changes are 6


### incremental. Every day we lessen our dependency 7


### on fossil fuel to clean energy is a day when the 8


### air quality gets better. Every day new markets 9


### are developed for wind, solar and other 10


### sustainable less polluting energy sources. 11


### Germany recently just crossed the 50 12


### percent threshold for producing its domestic 13



### energy needs. And now we have a n energy gap in 14



### technology. You know, we talked about the 15


### missile gap back in the 1960's with President 16


### Kennedy. We’re falling behind, and as a previous 17


### speaker said, we can’t lead from behind. 18



### The naysayers always seem to forget about 19


### American’s capabi lity for innovation and 20


### adaptability, that’s true of people around the 21


### world. These new rules promote new market driven 22

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### technologies that begin to shape our future, a 1


### future that is less threatening to the public’s 2



### health, welfare and safety. It creates new jobs 3


### and secures economic growth too. 4


### The proposed air quality rules mean that 5


### about 50,000 children yet to be born will not 6


### develop asthma. You can monetize that if you 7



### like. These are billions of dollars. It is 8


### estimated about eight billion dolla rs will be 9


### spent to comply by industry. We also know that 10


### it will save this country 50 million dollars

-- 11



### or 50 billion dollars in healthcare costs related 12


### to air pollution. 13


### The World Health Organization reports 14


### that in 2012 around seven million people d ied, 15


### one in eight, of total global deaths as a result 16


### of air pollution exposure. This finding more 17


### than doubles previous estimates and confirms that 18


### air pollution is now the world’s largest single 19


### environmental health risk, and reducing air 20


### pollution can save millions of lives. 21


### A University of Pittsburgh study recently 22

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### released about the same time as the WHO study 1


### basically says the same thing as it applies to 2


### here. We got a lot of cancer in Allegheny 3



### County. 4


### Outdoor pollution caused deaths break 5



### down by disease, by symmetric heart disease, 40 6



### percent, 40 percent of the strokes, 11 percent 7


### chronic obstructive pulmonary lung diseases, six 8



### percent cancer and three percent acute lower 9


### respiratory infections in children, and on and 10



### on. 11



### There is no deba te anymore. It is time 12


### to put aside the profiteer’s agenda and embrace a 13


### healthy, clean future for America. And as a 14



### final note, I’ve also heard this is not a federal 15



### matter. This should be done at the state level. 16


### Well, I’m going to leave with you t oday 17


### as part of my testimony, a recent audit from last 18


### week PA Auditor General DePasquale on 19


### Pennsylvania’s Department of Environmental 20


### Protection. It is a failed agency by any measure 21


### or any standard. It has been politicized, people 22

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### with agendas where 2 8 million dollars were spent 1


### by oil and gas industry to secure 2



### unconstitutional laws that have been shown in the 3



### court. 4


### This is a failed agency. And the only 5


### agency we have left is the EPA to begin to 6



### enforce this. The EPA was forced out of 7



### Pavilion, Wyoming. It was forced out of Texas in 8


### the Steve Lipsky case. And look what happened in 9


### Dimock. These are political decisions. The 10


### people that work at the EPA know what their job 11



### is and know how to do it. 12


### Unfortunately, my organization the DEP in 13



### Pe nnsylvania, by this audit documented has 14


### completely failed in its mission to protect the 15


### public’s health with regard to the shale gas that 16


### has come upon us in the fracking and the drilling 17


### here. No less so that this agency cannot 18


### regulate that industry. They cannot regulate air 19


### quality either. In fact, they should maybe take 20


### a time out until they get their act together and 21


### give it all over to you guys until such time that 22

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### they can show that they’re a responsible, capable 1


### agency of fulfilling its missio n, job and its 2


### constitutional obligations in Pennsylvania. 3


### It’s a joke. So when you see these 4


### Republican governors out there going

-- chasing 5



### the EPA out of the state, we can do this 6


### ourselves, the answer is no, they can’t. And I 7



### don’t want to live in a world where it’s run by 8


### people that are promoting pollution instead of my 9



### health, welfare and safety. Thank you. 10



### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you for your 11



### comments. Thank you very much. 12



### MR. SHIELDS: Where do I leave the 13



### comments? 14


### MR. WAYLAND: Right here. 15



### MR. SHIELDS: Okay. 16


### MR. WAYLAND: Thank you very much. This 17


### is going to conclude the morning and the 18


### afternoon session of the public hearing today in 19


### Pittsburgh. I personally would like to thank all 20


### of you for your cooperation and attendance today. 21


### I’d also like to thank you for the 22

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### privilege of being here to hear your comments 1


### today. I can assure you that everything that 2


### we’ve heard today will be taken back to 3


### Washington to Research Triangle Park, and all of 4


### your comments and input into the carb on pollution 5


### plan will be considered as we develop the final 6


### rule. So from a personal perspective I would 7


### like to say thank you. 8


### We’re going to take a dinner break now. 9



### We will reconvene at 6:00 in this room. The 10


### security people in the building have asked that 11


### you clear this room for the dinner break, you do 12


### not remain here. And when you come back after 13


### dinner, you’ll be in the very capable hands of 14


### Tom Powers in the back as your Hearing Chair. 15


### Christian Fellner will be here and Jeremy Mark 16



### will be here. I, yours truly, will not be here. 17


### But again, on a personal perspective, thank you 18


### very much for your time today, we greatly 19


### appreciate the hospitality afforded to us here in 20


### Pittsburgh today. 21


### Thank you very much, we’re in recess. 22

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### [Dinner recess f rom 4:50 to 6:00 p.m.] 1


### MR. GARVIN: Okay, we’re going to get 2


### started again. Good evening. This is our last 3


### session of the first day of the public hearing. 4


### My name is Shawn Garvin, I’m the Regional 5



### Administrator for U.S. EPA’s Mid

- Atlantic Region. 6



### I’m going to turn it over to

-- I want to 7


### thank you all for being here. I’m going to turn 8


### it over to Tom Powers, who is going to run 9


### through a quick logistics and then we’ll take the 10


### first set of panelists. Thank you. 11


### MR. POWERS: Good evening everybody. I’m 12


### going to abbreviate the opening statement for 13


### some of you who may have been here earlier today, 14


### but we’ll mention the ground rules and so forth 15



### for those of you who weren’t. 16



### First of all, I’m Tom Powers, Senior 17


### Policy Advisor to EPA’s Air Office in Wa shington. 18


### With me on the panel are Shawn, who you’ve 19


### already met, Christian Fellner and Jeremy Mark. 20


### We’re here tonight to hear your comments and your 21


### testimony on EPA’s Proposed Rules, actually two 22

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### rules under EPA’s Proposed Clean Power Plan, both 1



### for e xisting power plants and new and modified 2


### and reconstruction power plants. 3


### This is one of four hearings that we’re 4


### running across the country this week on the two 5



### proposed rules. We’ve had a huge amount of 6


### response in the interest in these rules, so we 7



### a re pleased to be able to hear from you tonight 8



### and from people across the country. 9


### A few housekeeping rules just so things 10



### run smoothly. We have had a lot of pre

- sign up 11


### for speaker slots, and the folks downstairs do a 12


### very good job of trying to move peo ple around and 13


### replace people if there are gaps. 14


### So if you are planning to speak, 15


### hopefully you checked in or at least let us know 16


### that you’re here. The folks downstairs are 17


### bringing cards up for the order of speakers. And 18



### the only way you get your na me on a card, so that 19


### I know you’re here to recognize you, is if you 20



### told the folks downstairs. 21



### Also, this is Room A. There are two 22

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### sessions going simultaneously, Room A and Room B. 1


### If you were signed up for Room B, this would be a 2


### good time to go switc h, which is on the 15th 3



### Floor. 4


### I’ll be calling speakers up in pairs and 5


### I’ll try to give you a

-- the people who are on 6


### deck a head’s up of who will be coming up next so 7



### you can get yourself ready. When I call on you 8


### to speak and you begin, it’s really h elpful to 9


### the court reporter, these hearings are all being 10


### transcribed, so there’s a record of them, if you 11


### could state your name clearly and spell it. It 12



### makes it a lot easier for her to make sure that 13


### we identify people correctly. 14



### You will have five mi nutes, each person 15



### has five minutes. We have a timer over here in 16



### front of Jeremy. It’s green to start. When 17


### you’re at four minutes it turns yellow. When 18


### it’s five minutes it turns red. We ask people to 19



### adhere to that out of respect for other people 20



### w ho are waiting to testify. 21



### Also, we assure people that we read 22

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### things just as much as we listen. Any comments 1



### that you don’t get to make orally that you get to 2


### us in writing by the close of written comment 3


### date on October 16th will most definitely be r ead 4


### and considered just the same way as oral 5


### testimony. 6


### I think that’s a pretty good summary of a 7


### much longer set of remarks here. So with no 8


### further opening, we’ll get started. We are 9


### scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. tonight. If you 10


### have any questions, there are numbers of folks 11


### around who will be happy to answer them. 12


### And with that I’m going to call the first 13



### two speakers who are Vernon Haltom, and Paula 14


### Swearengin. And on deck is Dennis Groce and

-- 15


### Mariam Lindauer. Mr. Haltom, I have your name 16



### fir st so you’re welcome to proceed with you’re 17



### ready. 18


### MR. HALTOM: Okay. My name is Vernon 19



### Haltom. That’s H

- a

- l

- t

- o

- m. I’m the Executive 20



### Director of Coal River Mountain Watch, which is 21


### based in Naoma, West Virginia. I’m also active 22

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### with the Appalachian C ommunity Health Emergency 1


### Campaign. And in a previous career I was a 2


### Weapons Safety Officer in the U.S. Air Force. 3


### So one of the things that you’ve heard a 4


### lot today is about jobs. Presently about 20,000 5


### West Virginians are employed by the coal 6


### industry , and that’s less than four percent of 7


### the workforce, just to kind of keep things in 8


### perspective. 9


### But there are 300,000 West Virginians 10


### whose water was poisoned in January. Those 11


### people are not here today. They’ve got lives, 12


### they have families, they hav e illnesses to take 13



### care of. They have loved ones to take care of. 14


### They’re not here today. Their lives do not 15


### benefit from coal. In fact, they were horribly 16


### impacted by an outlaw poorly regulated industry. 17



### Of the 300,000 whose tap water was 18


### poisoned i n January, approximately 100,000 have 19


### suffered health impacts as a result. And this is 20


### a coal cleaning chemical. Let’s make no mistake, 21


### this accident was not separate from the coal 22

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### industry. One hundred thousand six people, 1


### 20,000 West Virginian miners. That’s five for 2


### each West Virginia miner. 3


### So we hear our politicians advocate 4


### balance. So how many sick people, how many lives 5


### balance a single coal job? 6



### Yes, this was an accident, but accidents 7


### are caused, as a former safety professional, we 8



### know that accidents are caused. There’s always 9


### something in the chain that can be prevented to 10


### keep that from happening. 11


### But especially in a state like West 12


### Virginia where environmental and safety 13


### inspectors are ordered to take it easy on coal. 14



### They’re told to look the other way. To come back 15


### later and see if things have been fixed. 16


### This is where violators take deadly 17



### shortcuts, and we have disasters such as the 18


### April, 2010 Upper Big Branch explosion taking the 19


### lives of 29 miners in the Coal River Valley five 20


### minutes away from our office. 21


### If the EPA wants this plan to work, it’s 22

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### going to have to grow some teeth to make states 1


### like West Virginia, whose leaders dance to the 2


### coal industry tune, take real action. 3


### West Virginia has made it plain that they 4


### will not comply of their accord. And we need 5


### real federal enforcement, not just for this rule, 6


### but for the existing laws and regulations that 7



### are swept under the rug by the State regulators 8



### that we have. 9



### Back to those hundreds of thousands of 10


### West Virgin ians with poison water, that does not 11



### even include the thousands of deaths and health 12


### impacts each year associated with mountaintop 13


### removal, which will not be significantly reduced 14


### by this proposed measures. These measures do 15


### nothing to relieve front line communities choking 16


### on a toxic grip of filthy extraction industries, 17


### including coal, fracked gas, nuclear offshore 18


### drilling and industrial biomass. Business as 19


### usual has no place in a clean energy plan. 20


### The giddy advocacy of such dangerous fuel 21



### sources casts a noxious cloud over the plan’s 22

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### noble intent to reduce global warming and the 1


### affording clean options of energy efficiency and 2



### renewable energy. 3


### So I was thinking about this plan, people 4


### talk about steps forward. Well, it’s more like a 5



### dance

-- oh, I see I’ve got four minutes left. 6



### MR. POWERS: No, that’s one minutes. 7



### MR. HOLTOM: That’s what I meant. Some 8



### steps forward, some steps back, and a lot of 9


### steps sideways, so I urge you to take the steps 10


### forward. Do not promote fracking and the oth er 11


### dirty energy sources, and in order to stop 12


### mountaintop removal, there is a bill in the 13


### federal legislation, the Appalachian Community 14



### Health Emergency Act, HR526, that I would urge 15


### anyone listening or paying attention to this to 16



### promote, because there’s a big myth that 17


### mountaintop removal has ended or that this 18


### measure will end mountaintop removal, and it 19



### won’t. Thank you very much. 20


### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Any questions 21



### from the panel? 22

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### MS. SWEARENGIN: Hi, my name is Paula 1


### Swearengin, P

- a

- u

- l

- a, S

- w

- e

- a

- r

- e

- n

- g

- i

- n. 2


### Gentlemen, I want to thank you for being here. I 3


### see the EPA as my only protection for my home. 4


### I’m a single mother in West Virginia. I have 5


### four children. Their ages are 21, 18, 16 and 12. 6



### I know today that you’ve heard a lot 7



### ab out the importance of jobs in Appalachia, and I 8


### think that’s very important, too, because I’m a 9


### coal miner’s daughter, granddaughter, and most of 10


### my family spent their life in the coal industry. 11


### But I want to praise the EPA, and why I 12



### want to do so is bec ause I’ve watched my family 13



### suffer. I’ve watched my grandfather suffocate to 14


### death. I buried my father at 52 years old of 15



### cancer. I watched my stepfather get up every day 16


### and suffocate. And I thought I’d sacrificed 17


### enough to this industry until I start ed seeing 18


### them blow up the mountains that I enjoyed. 19


### That is my home. I was there before the 20


### coal industry. Now our creeks are black. 21


### People’s water comes black in their taps. 22

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### So if we do not have any support from our 1


### politicians, we have the best p aid politicians 2


### that the coal industry can buy. Because the 3


### people out of Appalachia are coming out of the 4


### coal fields, not part of our coal heritage. But 5



### I am a mother and I’m there to protect my 6


### children. And I have no say, so I’m depending on 7



### you. 8


### I think it’s sad that I have to beg for 9


### clean water in America. And I’m asking you to 10



### think about our economic structure, to think 11


### about an economic healthy structure, because I 12


### want my children to enjoy what I had as a child. 13


### My heritage dates back bef ore the coal 14


### industry, and I think they’ve wore out their 15


### welcome I’m not going to give them my children 16



### too. Thank you. 17



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much. If you 18


### have written comments we’d be happy to take them. 19


### If you don’t that’s fine. 20



### Our next spe aker is Dennis Groce and 21



### Mariam Lindauer. 22

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### MR. GROCE: My name is Dennis Gross, 1



### D

- e

- n

- n

- i

- s, G

- r

- o

- c

- e. I live in the town of 2


### Northeast, Pennsylvania, which is actually near 3


### Erie, Pennsylvania. I worship at St. Peter’s 4


### Evangelical Lutheran Church in Nor theast. In 5


### that congregation I help the congregation and 6


### others in the community in our responses to the 7


### many environmental challenges that face all of us 8



### every day. 9


### With only a few exceptions, I do support 10


### the EPA proposal to limit carbon emissions from 11


### existing power plants. My support is motivated, 12


### really by the call that I hear in my faith 13



### tradition, which is the Bible’s account in 14


### Genesis, Chapters 1 and 2. 15



### That account calls us to do the very best 16


### we can to protect everything in this world. 17



### While that’s easy to say, it’s very often 18


### difficult to do. I know that many of those 19


### commenting on the EPA proposal today and 20



### elsewhere are concerned about the effect these 21


### rules will have on employment and the economy. 22

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### Well, I assure you I am concerned about 1



### that, too, but I don’t see it as a one or the 2


### other proposition. We certainly should take 3


### steps to address the impact of these rules on the 4


### employment and the economy. But our country is 5


### strong enough and creative enough to do both at 6



### the same time. It ’s not like we can only chew 7


### gum or walk at one time. 8


### So while we can do that, while addressing 9


### the economic dislocations that might result from 10


### these rules, we have to find those ways of doing 11


### that rather than splitting apart along 12


### ideological lines. My wife and I, live, as I 13


### said, near Erie, Pennsylvania. We live right on 14


### the lake, right on Lake Erie. We watch the lake 15



### every day

. 16



### We frequently walk the beach and kayak on 17


### the lake. We’re awed by the size, and beauty, 18



### and power of the lake. It’s one of the greatest 19



### freshwater sources in the world. 20



### We are concerned about the effect on Lake 21


### Erie of warming temperatures associated with 22

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### climate change and the release of carbon into the 1



### air. Warmer, shorter winters are known to affect 2



### the ecology of th e lake. Perch and walleye are 3


### cool water species of fish that have been shown 4


### to decrease in numbers and viability after the 5


### warmer, shorter winters. Those species will be 6


### reduced in number as a result of climate change. 7


### Aside from the ecological impact , this 8



### will take a toll on the recreational and 9


### commercial fishing on Lake Erie and other bodies 10


### of water. The recreational fishing, alone, is a 11


### tremendous part of the economy in our area. 12


### The warmer waters also will produce a 13


### cascade of changes in the Lake Erie ecology. As 14



### nutrients such as fertilizer wash into the warmer 15


### lake, algae growth is going to be enhanced, and 16


### it is now. When the algae ultimately dies an 17


### decays in the lake, the oxygen in the water can 18


### be depleted, which further endangers the fish and 19


### other organisms. 20


### My wife and I have observed that just in 21


### the eight years that we’ve lived on the lake, the 22

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### increase in algae. 1


### Aside from our personal observations, we 2


### know, of course, that climate change has already 3



### taken its toll on the ear th and its inhabitants. 4


### Droughts, intense storms, rising sea levels, 5


### decrease food supplies and increase disease are 6


### all a part of climate change. 7


### While I support the proposed rule in 8


### general, I have just a couple of comments on it. 9



### I actually prefer th at the EPA would strengthen 10


### the proposal before finalizing it. 11



### The Union of Concerned Scientists has 12


### released a study indicating that combining more 13


### aggressive power plant standards with strong 14


### renewable and efficiency policies could cut power 15



### sector ca rbon emissions by 40 percent below 2013 16



### levels by 2020, and by more than 50 percent by 17



### 2030. 18


### This would put the U.S. in a position to 19


### lead the world rather than just catching up, 20


### which is what we’re doing now. I ask that the 21



### EPA adopt those measures to a llow those more 22

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### significant reductions in carbon emissions. 1


### Last thing, you’re calling it the Clean 2



### Power Plan. I find it hard to believe that it’s 3


### clean power, really. I would suggest it might be 4


### cleaner power, and I commend you for going for 5



### that. Cl ean power? No, it amounts to something 6


### like green washing, I’d say. 7


### That’s my last suggestion. Thank you 8


### very much for the opportunity to speak with you 9



### today. 10



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 11


### MS. LINDAUER: My name is Miriam 12



### Lindauer, that’s M

- i

- r

- i

- a

- m, L

- i

- n

- d

- a

- u

- e

- r. I 13


### live here in Allegany County. I’m a retired 14



### computer programmer. 15



### I strongly support the proposed EPA 16


### regulations limiting carbon emissions. We need 17


### the EPA to step in and make power plant standards 18


### as strong as possible. The new r ules should 19


### encourage renewable energy instead of natural 20


### gas, which may burn cleaner than coal, but which 21


### causes water, air and noise pollution during its 22

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### extraction. 1


### Fossil fuel emissions are undeniably 2


### causing our planet’s atmosphere to warm, 3


### affecting the health of every living thing. 4



### I have asthma and would not wish it on 5


### anyone else, so the following fact gets my 6


### attention. According to a Stanford University 7


### study, for each increase of one degree Celsius 8


### caused by carbon dioxide, the resulting ai r 9


### pollution will lead annually to about a thousand 10


### additional deaths and many more cases of 11


### respiratory illness and asthma in the United 12



### States. 13


### Worsening global warming will not only 14


### have terrible effects on people’s health, but 15


### will cost everyone in ter ms of rising sea levels, 16


### more acidic oceans, stronger storms and 17


### widespread drought. 18


### A recent report by the U.S. National Park 19


### Service indicates that our national parks are 20


### being adversely affected by global warming right 21



### now. 22

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### Wildfires came perilously c lose to 1


### Sequoia National Park in 2013, and Glacier 2


### National Park may be glacier free by 2030. 3


### It’s wishful thinking to claim that an 4


### unregulated free market will fix all of society’s 5


### problems. There is no aspect of the free market 6


### that provides an inher ent profit motive for 7


### industry to limit its pollution voluntarily. 8


### This does not mean the industry is evil, it just 9


### means there’s no money in it for them. 10


### The only way to stop global warming is to 11


### limit carbon pollution from all sources, burning 12



### fossil f uels to generate electricity produces 13


### almost 40 percent of carbon pollution in the 14


### United States. Since the fossil fuel industry 15


### will not voluntarily set limits, the EPA must do 16



### so. The proposed rules are a step, a small step 17


### in the right direction. 18



### C laims of job losses in coal producing 19


### areas are way overstated. Coal jobs will not 20


### disappear overnight, as it will take years to 21


### complete the transition to cleaner energy. 22

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### Furthermore, increasing renewable energy 1


### production will create more clean energy jobs. 2


### Many of those Appalachian hills that cover coal 3


### seams are perfect spots for energy generating 4


### windmills, which require a lot of maintenance by 5



### blue collar workers. 6


### Installing solar panels and developing 7



### technology to conserve energy create even mo re 8


### jobs. There are already more blue collar solar 9


### and wind energy jobs in this country than there 10


### are coal industry jobs, and those clean jobs 11


### don’t give workers Black Lung disease. 12


### One role of government is to resolve 13


### conflicts between the rights of ind ividuals and 14


### the rights of corporations. We have conflicting 15


### interests here. The fossil fuel industry’s 16


### business model includes emitting unhealthy carbon 17


### pollutants into the air and water at no cost to 18



### them. 19



### That business model conflicts with our 20


### righ t to clean air and water. They use our air, 21


### water and infrastructure for free and they do not 22

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### pay the cost that their pollution causes. 1


### Who does pay the cost? People like me 2


### who have pollution caused respiratory diseases 3


### pay the cost. Government’s fig hting fires in the 4


### west pay the cost. Coastal cities being slowly 5


### flooded by rising sea levels pay the cost. 6


### Future generations who will never see the 7


### glaciers that are melting way in Glacier National 8


### Park and who will never see the Giant Sequoias, 9



### which may well be incinerated by wildfires pay 10



### the cost. 11



### We should not be forced to bear this cost 12


### any longer. The right of fossil fuel industries 13


### to do business as they choose ends where our 14


### lungs begin. The right to do business as they 15



### please ends when the ir activity threatens our 16


### right to a livable environment. 17



### The government represents us, the flesh 18


### and blood breathing individuals of this nation. 19


### If the EPA does not protect our right to a 20


### healthy environment by issuing strong carbon 21



### emission rules, who will. Thank you. 22

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### MR. POWERS: The next two speakers are 1


### Alexandra Schmittlein and Susan Hoppe. 2


### MS. SCHMITTLEIN: Hello. My name is 3


### Alexandra Schmittlein. I am going to read the 4


### testimony of Allen Eccleston and Linda Harris, 5



### who are not here today. 6


### My last name is S

- c

- h

- m

- i

- t

- t

- l

- e

- i

- n. 7



### We strongly support the proposed 8


### regulations to

-- 9


### MR. POWERS: I’m sorry, could you just 10


### tell us who you are reading for again? 11



### MS. SCHMITTLEIN: Oh, sure. 12


### MR. POWERS: I got behind. 13



### MS. SCHMITTLEIN: Allen Ecc leston, it’s 14



### E

- c

- c

- l

- e

- s

- t

- o

- n, and Linda Harris, who reside 15


### in Hadley, Massachusetts. 16



### MR. POWERS: Great. Thank you. 17



### MS. SCHMITTLEIN: You’re welcome. 18



### “We strongly support the proposed 19


### regulations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. 20


### With 40 percent o f carbon dioxide emissions 21


### coming from the smoke stacks of coal burning 22

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### power stations, it is essential to regulate these 1



### pollutants.” 2


### “Several members of our family suffer 3


### from asthma and other pulmonary ailments. It is 4


### particularly distressing for us a nd other we know 5


### who have no defense against these pollutants.” 6



### “Until the EPA establishes these 7


### regulations and begins to require compliance, 8



### untold numbers of children and adults will suffer 9



### needlessly.” 10



### “In addition to the immediate health 11



### effects, gr eenhouse gas emissions are negatively 12


### impacting climate. The results are more forest 13



### fires, more floods, more severe storms that 14



### threaten lives, businesses and livelihoods .” 15


### “As practicing Quakers who understand 16



### that these changes affect the most vulnera ble 17


### first and worst, we are actively reducing our own 18


### participation in the carbon economy, and our 19


### founding members of a voluntary carbon tax 20


### witness group in our monthly meeting.? 21



### “We know more than individual action is 22

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### needed. We commend EPA for puttin g the 1


### regulations together and strongly back their full 2


### enforcement. Sincerely, Linda Harris and Allen 3



### Eccleston.” 4



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 5


### MS. HOPPE: My name is Dr. Susan Hoppe, 6



### H

- o

- p

- p

- e, and I strongly support the new rules 7



### but I didn’t realize I’d be able to speak, so I 8


### will be reading for Brenda Archanbo, 9



### A

- r

- c

- h

- a

- n

- b

- o. 10


### Brenda writes, “Thank you for the 11


### opportunity to present testimony on behalf of 12


### Michigan sportsmen and sportswomen representing 13


### the great old state of Michigan.” 14



### “I am here to speak up in support of the 15


### EPA’s carbon pollution standards. I am a fourth 16


### generation ice angler. I live at Black Lake in 17


### Cheboygan, Michigan in the Northern Lower 18


### Peninsula. Black Lake is the eighth largest 19


### inland lake in Michigan and is world renowned for 20


### its lake sturgeon population, a threatened 21


### species in Michigan.” 22

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### “Michigan’s wildlife and natural 1



### resources are the backbone of our five billion 2


### dollar recreational tourism economy. The Great 3



### Lakes are a national treasure.” 4


### “Michigan’s wildlife is as unique as the 5


### shape of its shoreline and the variety of 6



### habitats found within its borders. Whether it is 7


### a moose in the Upper Peninsula, the iconic lake 8


### sturgeon in the Northern Lower Peninsula, or our 9


### blue ribbon trout streams, wildlife helps define 10



### M ichigan’s sense of place.” 11


### “Our state’s history and cultural 12


### identity are inseparably linked to our wildlife 13


### and natural resources. It is what makes us pure 14


### Michigan.” 15


### “Across America hunters and anglers have 16



### contributed more than 10 billion dollars to fish 17


### and wildlife conservation, and in a typical year 18


### pumps 75 billion dollars into the economy.” 19


### “We have an obligation to protect our 20


### wildlife heritage from climate change by 21


### addressing its causes, including carbon pollution 22

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### from power plants. Failin g to do so will mean 1


### increasing disastrous impacts on wildlife. 2


### Climate change caused by carbon pollution is 3


### resulting in more frequent and increasingly 4


### violent extreme weather events, drought, flooding 5



### and other stressors that devastate communities, 6



### thre aten public health, and destroy and degrade 7



### wildlife habitat.” 8


### “Climate change isn’t just blind siding 9


### native species with habitat changes, it’s also 10


### giving a leg up to many harmful and invasive 11


### species.” 12


### “For over 40 years the Clean Air Act has 13



### made p rogress in reducing the threats posed by 14


### pollution. History has shown we can clean up 15


### pollution and create jobs.” It is misleading to 16



### say that enforcement of our nature’s 17


### environmental laws is bad for the economy and 18


### employment. It isn’t. We should nev er have to 19


### choose between a job and a healthy environment. 20



### We are entitled to both.” 21



### “Americans are no less entitled to a 22

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### safe, clean environment during difficult economic 1


### times than they are in a more prosperous 2



### economy.” 3


### “Safeguarding our natural resou rces is 4


### important to those of us who hunt, fish and spend 5



### time in the woods and on the waters, but is also 6



### a wise investment in our economic future.” 7


### “Reducing carbon pollution will help 8


### protect our longstanding investment in our 9


### outdoor heritage.” 10



### Bren da, we, me, Susan, Brenda and I 11



### strongly urge the EPA, Congress and the 12



### Administration to move forward and finalize 13


### strong carbon pollution standards, ensuring our 14


### outdoor legacy for future generations. 15



### Now and in the future the EPA and other 16



### federal an d state and environmental laws can help 17


### ensure that the legacy we leave our children is a 18



### clean and healthy planet. Thank you very much. 19



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. The next panel, 20


### next speakers are Michael Mabry and Kevin Sunday. 21


### Please proceed with you ’re ready. 22

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### MR. MABRY: Okay. This Dr. Michael 1



### Mabry, spelled M

- a

- b

- r

- y. I’m here to strongly 2


### support President Obama’s new rule on coal fired 3



### power plants. 4


### Basically coal fired power plants are the 5


### single fact that is most responsible for 6


### increased gl obal warming. It’s responsible for 7


### 40 percent of the U.S. contribution to greenhouse 8


### gases. It’s the largest domestic source of 9



### greenhouse gases. 10



### On June the 2nd, 2014, President Obama 11


### proposed a rule, said he wanted to cut 30 percent 12



### of the emissions f rom the coal fired power plants 13


### by 2030. This is a modest but very important 14


### contribution to lowering the risk of climate 15



### change. 16


### Coal fired power plants are also the 17


### cause of trouble with asthma and respiratory 18



### illnesses. It’s estimated that there be l owering 19


### of deaths from asthma and respiratory illnesses 20


### by lowering of the coal fired power plant 21



### emissions. 22

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### Global warming causes droughts, more 1


### forest fires and in the next hundred years it 2



### will cause four to seven inches of sea level 3



### rise

-- the incr ease of rate of animal 4



### extinction. 5



### The Defense Department states that global 6


### warming will cause an increased risk of 7


### population migration and conflict, increasing the 8



### risk of war. 9


### Global warming causes basically drought 10


### and crop failures. This might be one of the 11


### reasons for population migration. There will be 12


### a melting of the polar ice caps and will be the 13


### melting of the vast majority of glaciers in the 14



### next hundred years. 15


### There will be a rise of approximately 16



### three degrees temperature

-- air tempe rature if 17


### the rate of carbon pollution does not slow

-- 18


### it’s the single largest factor contributing to 19


### greenhouses gases in the United States, so 20


### President Obama was very wise to attack the 21


### problem at the level of the coal fired power 22

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### plants. 1



### In summary, I strongly support President 2



### Obama’s new rule on greenhouse gases. 3



### MR. POWER: Thank you. 4



### MR. MABRY: Thank you. 5


### MR. SUNDAY: Hi, my name is Kevin Sunday, 6



### K

- e

- v

- i

- n, S

- u

- n

- d

- a

- y. I’m the Manager of 7


### Government Affairs for the Pennsylvania Chamber 8



### of Business and Industry, with the largest broad 9


### based business advocacy organization in the 10



### state. 11



### Before I get started, I do want to read 12


### into the record my appreciation for EPA’s staff 13


### in holding these hearings. I’m very impressed, 14


### having formerly worke d at a regulatory agency, 15


### the professionalism that your staff has shown in 16


### getting people through here in an orderly 17


### fashion, as well as the building security and 18


### local police in ensuring that everyone, no matter 19


### what they think of these rules, has the abi lity 20



### to exercise their First Amendment. 21


### We’ve heard certainly a lot today, and 22

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### again, I appreciate the endurance you’ve shown. 1


### We’ve heard, unfortunately, little about the 2


### actual Clean Power Plan, and I’d like to bring up 3



### a few of our member’s concerns a bout the specific 4


### wording of the rule. 5


### I would like to do so out of respect for 6


### President Obama’s ideal regulatory framework, 7



### which he outlined in an executive order in 2011, 8


### which, in part, read that the federal regulatory 9


### system must allow for public pa rticipation and 10


### the open exchange of ideas. It must identify and 11



### use the best, most innovative and least 12


### burdensome tools for achieving regulatory ends. 13



### The 111(d) resource performance standard 14


### for new power plants, putting aside any question 15



### about whet her or not carbon sequestration is 16


### adequately demonstrated and thus satisfies BSER, 17


### and it at least stays inside the fence. We’ve 18


### got concerns that the historical application of 19


### 111(d), especially as it has the attention to 20


### 112, moving outside the fence o n a number of 21


### facets is a bit of a legal stretch. 22

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### One of those stretches, we think, is the 1


### state’s renewable target expectation and one of 2


### the building blocks. Pennsylvania is expected to 3


### increase its renewables by eightfold over the 4



### next 15 years, and it appears from our analysis 5


### that that happened because EPA incorporated 6


### Washington D.C.’s renewable supply mandates, even 7



### though they only actually have one

-- from my 8


### reading

-- power plant in the city, and it 9


### actually powers the Capital, somewhat ironi cally. 10


### And the renewable supply requirements are 11


### informing a renewable generation requirement, 12


### which we think is a bit perverse. 13


### We do want to support the Pennsylvania 14


### DEP’s 111(d) White Paper which stays inside the 15


### fence. There’s a really crucial aspec t of that, 16


### and that urges EPA to revisit and revise the new 17


### source review threshold that discourages 18


### investment into existing facilities, and that has 19


### to do with once you’re operating, your potential 20


### to emit thresholds certainly change. 21



### We also would sug gest EPA revisit the 22

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### expectation 70 percent of natural gas capacity 1


### gets dispatched. Our reason being in 2012 2


### natural gas prices were the lowest they’ve ever 3


### been, and dispatch did not even approach 70 4


### percent of its

-- independent market monitors 5



### report about 57 percent. And given the language 6


### in EPA’s rule, expects a 121⁄2 percent increase in 7


### natural gas stock prices by the end of the 8


### decade, given that the PJM dispatches electricity 9



### on an economic basis. 10


### It’s difficult for us to foresee that you 11



### get clo se to 70 percent dispatch out of those 12


### power plants. In fact, just this past winter in 13



### the polar vortex, what happens on the stock 14



### market when we over rely on one fuel source, and 15


### there is certainly present infrastructure and 16


### supply constraints in the nat ural gas market. 17


### We’re going to need more pipeline investment to 18


### satisfy that 70 percent requirement. And we have 19


### a concern that regulatory actions need to be 20


### smoothed out, particularly the waters of the U.S. 21


### rule might delay additional pipeline investme nt. 22

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### And finally, we’ve heard that this rule 1



### affects only 40 percent

-- the power plant’s 2


### contribution is 40 percent of greenhouse gases. 3


### America, as a whole, is only at 16 percent of the 4



### world’s contributions. But in fact, since 2005 5


### the power plant ind ustry in Pennsylvania has cut 6


### their greenhouse gases by 14 percent, a very 7



### notable contribution. 8


### It’s not the only reductions, points or 9


### submissions that have gone down in Pennsylvania. 10


### SO2, according to DEP is down 68 percent, NOx by 11



### about 30 percent, a nd VOCS by 21 percent, and 12


### that’s having a demonstrated impact on air 13


### quality with fewer and fewer ozone action days 14


### being called each year. 15


### Not coincidentally over that same time 16



### we’ve seen unemployment go down to below the 17


### national average. We think gi ven that, the 18


### present environmental regulations and competitive 19


### electricity market is having a wonderful effect 20


### on the environment and we have a strong economy 21



### too. And we would prefer to see those trends 22

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### continue. Thanks. 1



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 2



### Next up is Wanda Guthrie and David 3



### Mangold. 4


### MS. GUTHRIE: Hi. My name is Wanda 5



### Guthrie. That’s W

- a

- n

- d

- a, G

- u

- t

- h

- r

- i

- e. My 6


### presence and testimony here this evening is to 7


### speak in support of the EPA’s Clean Power Plan. 8



### I am the Environmental Justice Chair and speak on 9



### behalf of the Thomas Burton Center, the heart of 10


### peace and social justice in Pittsburgh for over 11



### 40 years. 12



### I’m also a member of the Friend’s 13


### Committee, a national legislation, and will speak 14


### to the timeliness of this proposed regulation. 15


### To quote ecopsychologist, Joanna Macy, 16


### “The most radical thing any of us can do at this 17


### time is to be fully present to what is happening 18


### in this world.” This means we must look straight 19


### at anthropocentric climate disruption and work 20



### together to address, r egulate and remedy as many 21


### of the causes as possible while there is still 22

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### time. 1


### It is this belief that brings you here, 2


### and why you are spending these long hours 3


### listening to our remarks. I know that no matter 4


### what we say here today, there will be still more 5


### and more social hysteria, and that the corporate 6


### media will be pointing fingers and putting 7


### pressure on their perception on what’s needed for 8



### the future of our planet. 9



### There are those who will continue to talk 10


### about how they are going to put food on the 11


### table. They will talk about jobs, but the prices 12


### being paid or extorted from the whole of living 13


### creation are just too high. 14



### This is a moral issue. Generational 15


### ethics are on the line. The poorest and most 16



### vulnerable of us that contribute the least to 17


### climate changes are the most dangerously 18



### affected. 19


### The sad truth for Pennsylvanians is that 20


### coal is currently our largest energy source for 21


### power generation. The EPA will be asking 22

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### Pennsylvania to develop a plan to lower its 1


### carbon pollution to meet the proposed emission 2



### rate goal of 1,052 pounds per megawatt hour by 3



### 2030. 4



### We who welcome this Clean Power Plan will 5


### work to put our energy into programs that have 6


### not been as fully supported as they can be, like 7


### solar, wind and geothermal power. 8



### Many of us affirm and support energy 9


### sources and strategies with criteria from cradle 10


### to grave that emit little or no carbon dioxide or 11


### other greenhouse gas emissions, produce infinite 12


### sources of energy, do not have negative impacts 13



### on human health and communit ies, are cost 14


### effective and create long term job and economic 15



### growth. 16



### For these reasons we do not support 17


### nuclear energy as an option. The risks to human 18


### health, to communities, including the harmful 19



### extraction and abandoned uranium mines create 20


### negative impacts. The inability to permanently 21


### disclose of high level radioactive waste creates 22

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### harmful sacrifice areas. We also know that these 1


### are global security

-- there’s a global security 2



### threat. 3


### The nuclear industry’s inability to 4


### operate without governm ent subsidies has been a 5


### continuing issue. Fossil fuels are finite and 6


### renewable energy is infinite. In fact, the 7


### International Energy Agency tells us that 8



### two

- thirds of proven fossil fuel reserves must be 9


### kept in the ground to prevent potential 10



### catastro phic consequences. This includes natural 11


### gas and oil. About one

- third of the total U.S. 12


### methane emissions are responsible for greenhouse 13


### gas emissions. 14


### The new unconventional gas wells are also 15


### emitting toxins like benzene , and radon, that are 16



### then sen t through compressor stations and 17


### pipelines. Several studies have shown that 18


### overall, methane emissions are considerably 19


### higher than official inventories report. This 20


### policy will treat carbon the way it should be 21


### treated. It is a pollutant and is harmin g our 22

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### health and our planet. 1



### The rule that reflects our best values to 2



### prevent premature deaths and asthma attacks by 3


### smog and other air pollutants, it will reduce the 4


### pollution that fuels climate change. Thank you 5


### for your time. 6



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Mr. Mangold? 7


### MR. MANGOLD: Good evening everyone, and 8


### Administrators. My name is David Mangold, 9



### M

- a

- n

- g

- o

- l

- d, a concerned citizen from Randolph, 10


### Ohio. I am also a geologist. 11


### I’ve been compiling great concerns over 12



### the way our country uses energy a nd our 13


### resources. Concerns such as world peak oil and 14


### these current environmental issues we’re talking 15



### about here today. 16


### Historically, we powered our industries 17


### at the time of the first industrial revolution by 18


### renewables, wind and water. Today we have other 19


### alternatives, geothermal, solar and others. 20


### I believe in the future we can power our 21


### energy sources using most exclusively renewable 22

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### sources, some of which I’ve already cited. I’m 1


### currently particularly infatuated with 2


### hydroelectric power, which hi storically was known 3


### as white coal during the time of World War II, by 4


### the Milwaukee railroad. I believe we can power 5


### our transportation system electronically using 6



### electrified trains and electric cars, and use 7


### those vehicles to connect the megapolises. 8


### Transportation corridors could be used to 9



### transport renewable energy from sources of 10


### production to city centers like here in 11


### Pittsburgh. And I do agree that carbon is a 12


### pollutant, and I do certainly support the current 13



### EPA rules on carbon emissions. I’ll keep mine 14


### short and to the point. 15



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. I want to make 16


### a point here of thanking everybody who’s here 17


### tonight. We very much appreciate each of you who 18


### has taken the time to come out and testify or 19


### just to listen and hear more about al l the 20



### different sides of this issue, which has drawn an 21


### enormous amount of attention around the country. 22

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### The next two speakers are Paul Severance 1



### and Nikki Luke. 2


### MR. SEVERANCE: Thank you. My name is 3



### Paul Severance, spelled S

- e

- v for Victor, 4



### e

- r

- a

- n

- c

- e . I live in Beech Grove, Indiana. 5


### Today is my 75th birthday. 6


### MR. POWERS: Happy Birthday. 7



### MR. SEVERANCE: I am here instead of at 8


### home celebrating with my family because I believe 9


### that what we are about here today is of 10


### absolutely critical, critical im portance. 11



### I am the co

- chair of the Environmental 12


### Legacy Team at the Conscious Elders Network, 13


### which is a new national organization of elders 14



### who are deeply concerned about the world we are 15


### creating for future generations. 16


### We absolutely believe that we are 17


### standing at what may be a historic juncture. Our 18


### present course of tearing carbon out of the earth 19


### as fast as possible and spewing it into the 20


### atmosphere is disastrous. We could well trigger 21


### feedback loops which will accelerate climate 22

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### change to the level at which we would no longer 1


### have a chance of preserving a planet which is 2


### consistent with human life thriving. 3


### Well, this is obviously a worldwide 4


### problem. The United States has a very special 5


### responsibility. For decades we have been the 6



### world’s l argest source of carbon pollution. And 7


### despite being the world’s largest economy and the 8


### world’s dominant super power, we have dragged our 9


### feet when it comes to facing the crisis that we 10


### are bringing down upon future generations. 11


### So I stand here with gre at gratitude to 12


### President Obama, Administrator McCarthy and to 13


### the whole team of you at EPA which has worked on 14


### this proposal. In the midst of shameful, 15


### shameful congressional inaction, you have 16


### produced a truly significant step toward major 17



### reductions an d CO2 emissions. It is certainly 18



### not the whole answer, but it is an essential 19



### start. 20


### In concert with higher fuel efficiency 21



### standards and the standard for new power plants, 22

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### this regulation provides the first real hope of 1


### diverting our road to disaster. And the impacts 2


### of this regulation will be felt far beyond the 3



### United States. 4


### Having finally taken significant action 5



### ourselves, we, as a nation, will be in the 6


### position to exert our economic and moral 7


### influence to push for real worldwide commitments 8



### whi le there is still time. 9


### Now for the huge question about this 10


### regulation. Is it enough? Could it be made 11


### stronger by identifying more possible reductions 12


### from the use of clean energy technologies and 13


### upping the ante, and could that be done without 14


### jeopar dizing the final adoption of this proposed 15


### regulation, which is what’s the most important. 16


### I don’t know the answer to that question, 17


### but someday later this century people will look 18


### back at what we are doing today and say we rose 19



### to the occasion and took t he steps to prevent 20


### catastrophe or we didn’t do enough. 21



### So what we ask of EPA is this. Take a 22

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### look at strengthening this regulation further. 1


### Don’t miss the opportunity to do everything you 2


### can possibly do to give our great grandchildren 3



### and their childr en a chance for a decent life on 4



### this earth. And at the same time do not 5


### jeopardize this vitally important regulation. 6


### This may sound a little over the top, but 7


### I, in tall the studying I’ve done, I truly 8


### believe this, this could well be a pivotal point 9



### i n human history. You have a unique opportunity 10



### to make a historic difference in the world. How 11



### often does that come about? 12



### Do the absolute best you can do for 13


### future generations. Thank you all for your 14


### dedication and your courage. 15



### MR. POWER: Thank yo u. 16


### MS. LUKE: Good evening. My name is 17


### Nikki Luke, spelled N

- i

- k

- k

- i, last name Luke, 18



### L

- u

- k

- e. I didn’t know I would be on the docket 19


### to speak tonight but it seems that they had 20


### openings, so I’ll just try to sketch out some of 21


### my opinions on this mat ter. I didn’t prepare a 22

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### very long testimony but I wanted to share my 1


### perspective and I hope that you’ll find it a 2


### compelling reason to stand in support of these 3


### regulations. 4


### I grew up less than a mile from a coal 5


### fired power plant on the campus of Virgin ia Tech, 6


### and I remember visiting my dad’s office when I 7


### was a little girl and making shapes on the 8



### windowsill in the coal dust. 9


### It had a significant effect on the 10


### quality of our lives, living in the shadow of a 11



### smoke stack. And while it is now one of th e 12


### cleanest coal fired power plants in the country, 13


### as they were forced to retrofit it, the shadow of 14


### coal has definitely significantly detracted from 15


### what Appalachia has the potential to be. 16


### And despite the strong voices that say 17



### coal continues to be a vi tal part of our economy 18


### and a vital part of where labor is directed in 19


### the region of Appalachia, the reality is that in 20


### some ways this represents a false promise to our 21



### communities. While we are reliant on coal and 22

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### jobs from coal in some respects, in othe r ways 1


### they’ve continued to decline as the process of 2


### mining has restructured with little to take its 3



### place. 4


### I am strongly in support of this piece of 5


### legislation because I see it as a vital 6


### commitment not only towards cleaner energy and a 7



### cleaner future for the United States but a 8


### commitment also to rural development and an 9


### alternative for the stagnant communities of coal 10



### country. 11


### My interest in this topic, specifically 12


### in rural development, has actually led me into 13


### the study of agriculture where I’ve lo oked at 14


### some of the various and diverse impacts of 15


### climate change. Specifically in the area of land 16


### degradation and desertification as a result from 17


### increasing aridity and changing climate patterns. 18


### For instance, in the United States up to 19



### 54 percent of our food supply depends on 20


### irrigated agriculture, and over 60 percent of our 21


### water withdrawals, according to the United States 22

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### geological survey, go to the irrigation of our 1



### food supply. 2


### I will continue to study this issue of 3


### how to make agriculture more sustainable as I 4


### continue my studies in the master’s program as a 5


### full scholar. And I hope there that I’m going to 6


### the United Kingdom where there is a strong 7


### commitment to reducing carbon emissions, one of 8



### 80 percent by 2050. 9



### The United States has taken a strong step 10


### in the right direction, but we could look to some 11


### of our other allies and the work that they’re 12


### doing, not only to stand up for this issue of 13


### cleaning up the environment, but taking a role of 14


### responsibility in the global scheme as well. 15



### So w ith all of these issues on the line, 16


### looking from the very local to that of the world 17


### prospective, I think that this is a critical 18


### piece of

-- a critical step for the EPA to take 19


### in supporting alternative and progressive forms 20


### of technology, beginning with mitigation of the 21


### effects of coal fired power plants and 22

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### encouraging renewable energy and sustainable 1


### rural development, which offers a forward looking 2



### future for the economy and the people of coal 3



### country. So thank you. 4



### MR. POWERS: Thank you very much . The 5


### next panel is Chris west and Nick Kennedy. 6


### MR. KENNEDY: Hi, my name is Nick 7


### Kennedy. I’m speaking today on behalf of Beverly 8


### Braverman. I’m the Community Advocate for the 9



### Mountain Watershed Association, which is a home 10


### of the Youghiogheny Riverk eeper and its more than 11


### 1,000 members. We’re located in Fayette County, 12



### so about an hour south of here. 13


### As with so many grassroots groups, ten 14


### people sitting around a kitchen table started the 15


### Mountain Watershed Association or MWA. They 16


### opposed putting together yet

-- they opposed 17


### putting yet another underground coal mine in a 18



### watershed that already suffered from more than 19


### 130 mine drainage discharges. 20



### These people formed MWA and developed a 21


### comprehensive restoration plan to build and 22

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### maintain treatmen t systems to restore Indian 1


### Creek and its many tributaries. 2


### Over the past 15 years MWA has raised 3


### more than seven million dollars to implement 4


### treatment projects and restore Indian Creek. 5


### We’d like to thank you for this opportunity to 6


### speak in support of the limits placed on carbon 7


### pollution from coal fired power plants. 8


### Hopefully this is just the beginning of strong 9


### action to reverse the deleterious impacts of 10


### using coal. 11


### Besides air pollution and health risks 12


### from burning coal, society faces ongoi ng 13


### degradation to our communities and streams such 14


### as acid mine drainage, total dissolved solids, 15



### and algae blooms as well as water supply lost and 16



### structural damage to homes. 17


### The long overdue switch away from coal as 18


### an energy source will greatly improv e the future 19


### quality of our nation’s air and streams. 20



### MWA believes that the EPA has an 21


### important role in all environmental impacts from 22

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### coal mining, not solely CO2 air quality health 1


### issues and its contribution to global warming. 2



### Where are the TMDL’s f or all those streams in the 3


### coal mining regions, and where is that long 4



### overdue enforcement of TDS limits in PA’s streams 5


### where coal mining is taking place? 6


### If anything, this rule will raise the 7


### involvement of EPA to much needed oversight and 8



### enforcement of the coal industry’s impact on this 9


### country’s natural environment, it’s streams and 10



### it’s biota. 11


### We strongly support reduction of carbon 12


### pollution to protect future generations and the 13


### earth’s impact form climate change. Power plants 14


### are responsible for 40 percent of the carbon 15


### pollution in the United States, our single 16


### largest source. It is time to support federal 17


### limits on carbon pollution. It is time to 18


### address climate change. 19



### Research has shown that over the next 40 20


### years Pennsylvania can take the road to 100 21


### percent renewable power generation, create over 22

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### 350,000 jobs in the process, and continue to save 1


### residents money on their energy bills as compared 2



### to the retentive fixation on fossil fuel. 3


### The new federal safeguard will also 4


### inspire investm ent in infrastructure to protect 5


### communities from climate change impacts they are 6


### already experiencing, spur the kind of innovation 7


### that will power America with clean energy in the 8


### 21st century and improve resiliency and give 9


### states flexibility to implemen t plans that 10


### increase efficiency. 11


### But I would like to say at this juncture 12


### that we are not pushing for natural gas to be the 13


### next solution. Their extraction, processing, 14


### and delivery shares a similar negative impact on 15



### the air. 16


### As already discussed, MWA has been 17


### combating the effects of acid mine drainage for 18



### over 20 years. But now to our horror, we are 19


### seeing history repeat itself with water 20


### contamination from shale drilling in our 21


### community. A switch to natural gas is not the 22

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### solution we need if we are serious about 1


### protecting the environment from all effects of 2


### power generation, not simply carbon emissions. 3


### Various components of natural gas process 4


### leak methane, which is a greenhouse gas 86 times 5


### as potent as carbon dioxide over a 20 year scale 6


### according to the intergovernmental panel on 7


### climate change. Leakage above three percent is 8


### enough to negate the climate benefits of natural 9



### gas over coal. 10


### We’d like to emphasize that we would like 11


### to see a push towards increasing the supply of 12



### renewab le energy, which would allow the U.S. to 13


### reduce global warming emissions. Renewable 14


### energy growth improves public health. It reduces 15


### premature mortality and lost work days. It 16



### reduces overall healthcare cost. 17


### The aggregate national economic impact 18



### as sociated with these health impacts of fossil 19



### fuels is between 361.7 and 886.5 billion dollars, 20


### or between 2.5 percent or six percent of the 21


### gross domestic product. 22

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### We’d like to thank you for your time and 1


### for your attention to this matter. 2



### MR. POWER: Thank you. 3


### MR. WEST: Hi, my name is Chris West. I 4


### live in Forest Hills, Pennsylvania, just east of 5


### Pittsburgh. And thanks for the opportunity and 6


### thank you all for being here, it’s probably a 7


### long day for all of you, so I appreciate that. 8



### So I am her e definitely a hundred percent 9


### behind this plan to limit carbon pollution from 10


### power plants. As it stands right now, I think it 11



### is our

-- this action is the best chance we have 12


### to slow climate change. And climate change is 13


### certainly a problem we can’t af ford not doing 14


### enough on or inaction. 15


### And in my opinion, this is a broad 16


### consensus, so from my circle of friends, and 17


### contacts and family, probably 90 percent, you 18


### know, feel the same way. So from my perspective, 19



### I believe that this is a broad consensus of what 20



### we want to see happen. 21



### And then, you know, why focus on power 22

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### plants? They’re the largest source of carbon 1


### pollution in the U.S. And then they count for 2


### about a third of all domestic greenhouse gas 3



### emissions. And there’s limits on arsenic, 4



### merc ury, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides, 5


### particle pollution. So it just makes sense to 6



### have limits on carbon. 7



### And why should we act? You know the 8


### first reason is that it literally is going to 9


### save lives. So this is from EPA data. So by 10



### 2030 these step s could avoid up to 6,600 11


### premature deaths, up to 150,000 asthma attacks in 12


### kids, put to 490,000 missed work or school days. 13



### And then another reason is that it will 14


### shrink electricity bills by increasing energy 15


### efficiency and reducing demand of the elect ricity 16


### system. And I also think this plan is very 17



### sensible because it relies and is based on what a 18


### lot of states are already doing. 19


### The one thing that I would like to urge 20



### folks on is the issue of methane. That that is 21



### such a more potent greenhouse gas than carbon, 22

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### that I think we really need to look at limits on 1



### methane, or some plan, we need to have some plan 2



### to reduce that, because that is also fast 3


### tracking us on the path towards climate 4



### destruction. 5


### And I will just end by saying I really 6



### applaud t he EPA and President Obama for this 7


### proposed rule, I think it’s a great step. Thank 8



### you. 9


### MR. POWERS: Let me just ask our 10


### transcriber, stenographer, are you doing okay, do 11



### you need a break? You’re good? Okay. I don’t 12



### want to exhaust anybody here. 13



### Th e next panel is Phil Smith and Rachael 14



### Martin. 15


### MS. GOLDMAN: Hi. My name is Rachael 16


### Martin Goldman, and I live here in Pittsburgh, 17


### Pennsylvania. Today, however, I will be 18


### providing testimony on behalf of Eric Orff in New 19


### Hampshire. 20


### So speaking as Er ic, “My name is Eric 21


### Orff. I live in Epsom, New Hampshire. I have 22

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### been a wildlife biologist in New Hampshire for 40 1


### years working for the State Fish and Game 2


### Department until my retirement in 2007, and since 3


### shortly after my retirement as a wildlife 4



### biol ogist consultant to the National Wildlife 5



### Federation.” 6


### “I come here today in support of the 7



### EPA’s efforts to reduce carbon emissions from 8


### coal fired power plants. New Hampshire’s moose 9


### are in a significant decline, likely caused by a 10


### warming climate. Th e moose population has 11


### plunged some 40 percent in just over a decade, 12


### from an estimated population of 7,500 moose to 13



### about 4,000 to 4,500 today.” 14


### “Moose are an iconic figure in the 15


### Granite State and contribute significantly to our 16


### economy. Moose viewing in the state has an 17



### estimated value of over 12 million dollars 18



### annually. Folks come from around the country to 19



### see all our moose, and the economic benefits are 20


### most focused in the far north, exactly where they 21


### are needed in the rural community.” 22

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### “Moose h unting also is a significant 1


### economic engine for the North Country. But as 2


### the moose numbers have dwindled, moose hunting 3


### permits have been cut back over 80 percent in 4


### just the past seven years, from 675 permits 5


### issued in 2007 to just 124 permits issued t his 6


### year. This is a tremendous economic loss for 7


### hunting guides and local businesses.” 8


### “There are three significant factors 9


### contributing to reduced moose numbers and all are 10


### related to a warming New Hampshire. First, as 11



### our winters have warmed and short ened over the 12


### last decades, in particular, the shorter winters 13


### has caused a huge spike in winter tick numbers 14



### which live on moose over the winter. Over 15


### 100,000 winter ticks have been found on a single 16



### moose.” 17



### “Most dramatic over the last decade has 18



### been a significant loss of moose calves due to 19


### the extraordinarily high winter tick numbers. 20


### Just this past winter, 22 moose calves were 21



### fitted with radio collars in mid

- January , and by 22

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### the end of April 14th, 64 percent of the calves 1



### died due to the tick loads . Past studies have 2


### shown about 20 percent mortality of adults by 3



### ticks some winters.” 4


### “Second, the too hot summers are causing 5



### our cow, or female moose, to feed less. Summer 6


### temperatures above 57 degrees begin to stress 7


### moose. Then they begin panting at 68 degrees, 8


### and stop feeding and lay down at 79 degrees. 9


### This has led to underweight moose numbers 10


### increasing the last five years at the biological 11



### check station each fall.” 12


### “Yearling moose, first time breeders, 13



### must be at least 440 pounds to success fully bear 14


### calves the next spring. Adults two years and 15


### older typically give birth to twin calves if 16


### their fall weights are at least 550 pounds. Many 17


### of our cows have been under these weights the 18


### last few falls. So our moose cows are producing 19



### fewer cal ves than they did a decade ago.” 20


### “Thirdly, as our winters have warmed, 21


### there has been a big increase in deer numbers 22

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### across the central and southern parts of the 1


### state. Deer carry a brain worm that is non

- fatal 2



### to deer but very fatal to moose. It appea rs an 3



### increase in moose brain worm is the cause of 4


### declining numbers in the southern half of the 5



### state.” 6


### “It appears all factors contributing to 7


### our declining moose numbers are related to a 8


### change in climate, and it is not just New 9


### Hampshire facing declin ing moose numbers. From 10



### Maine to Vermont and over to Minnesota and Utah, 11


### moose numbers are down significantly this past 12


### decade. We must act on reducing carbon emissions 13


### now to keep this iconic animal on our landscape.” 14



### Thank you. 15



### MR. POWERS: Thank yo u very much. Could 16


### you spell Eric’s last name just for our record? 17



### MS. GOLDMAN: Yeah, it’s O

- r

- f

- f. 18



### MR. POWERS: O

- r

- f

- f, and first name was 19



### E

- r

- i

- c? 20



### MS. GOLDMAN: Yes, correct. 21



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### MR. (Phil) SMITH: Good evening, my name 1



### is Ph il, P

- h

- i

- l, Smith, S

- m

- i

- t

- h, and I am the 2



### Director of Governmental Affairs for the United 3



### Mine Workers of America. 4



### As you probably know by now, more than 5



### 6,000 union members and their families marched 6


### through the streets of Pittsburgh today, raising 7



### the ir voices in opposition to this proposed rule. 8


### Some of them, including UMWA President, Cecil 9



### Roberts, Secretary/Treasurer, Dan Kane, and the 10



### entire UMWA International Executive Board were 11


### arrested as they engaged in non

- violent civil 12



### disobedience on the sidewalk outside this 13


### building. 14



### All these people came here today because 15


### they have serious concerns about the affect this 16


### proposed rule will have on their lives. EPA’s 17


### own analysis of this rule acknowledges that 18


### thousands of coal miners will lose their j obs. 19


### That puts their ability to provide for 20


### their family at risk, and it puts their 21


### retirement security for retired miners, their 22

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### dependents and their widows at risk. That makes 1


### them rightfully very concerned. 2



### And since EPA has thus far refused to 3



### hold one of these hearings in the coal producing 4


### areas of this country, they have no choice but to 5



### come here to make their voices heard. And I 6


### assure you you have not heard their voices for 7



### the last time. 8



### If EPA does not have the courage to come 9



### to the coal fields and look the people who will 10


### be most harmed by this rule in the eye, they will 11


### keep coming to you. 12


### It is important that we put into 13


### prospective what this proposed rule does and does 14


### not do. The Clean Power Plan is and always was 15


### about taking ac tion to reducing greenhouse gas 16


### emissions from existing sources, but will it? 17



### I’ve heard some of the environmental 18


### community complain that it does not go far 19


### enough. I can understand their point if EPA’s 20


### goal it so significantly reduce global greenhouse 21


### gas emissions. This proposed rule does not do 22

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### that. 1


### Indeed, it will have a fairly 2


### insignificant effect on global emissions, 3


### reducing them by about one percent. But in 4


### exchange for that one percent reduction, tens of 5



### thousands of coal miners, electrical workers, 6


### boiler makers, utility workers and railway 7


### workers will lose their jobs. 8


### The pensions and healthcare retired 9


### miners earned through decades of dangerous back 10


### breaking work will be threatened if not 11


### completely eliminated. The harmful effects on 12



### th eir families and communities will be 13


### significant. We don’t see this as a fair trade 14



### off for us. 15


### Some say there will be other jobs created 16


### that our members can get. But where will those 17


### jobs be? What will they pay? What benefits will 18



### they have. You are asking people who earn around 19


### $27 an hour plus benefits, and believe me they 20


### earn that money working in a coal mine, to 21


### willingly give that job up, take the government’s 22

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### word for it that there will be some other job, 1


### move away from their place where t heir families 2


### have lived and died for generations, then get 3


### retrained and do something that will likely pay 4


### much less than they earned before with few, if 5


### any, benefits. 6


### Nor is it likely that his new job will 7


### have the protections of a union contract. Ho w 8



### can anyone wonder why our members are upset about 9



### that prospect? 10



### Some have said the United States needs to 11


### take the lead on combating climate change with 12



### this rule. If we do it others will follow or so 13


### that line of thinking goes. But how do we know 14


### this? I am no expert in foreign affairs but I do 15


### know something about the economics of the global 16



### marketplace. 17


### The truth is that rising economic 18


### competitors like China and India have welcomed 19


### millions of what used to be American jobs to 20



### their shores in the past decades. They are able 21


### to do that be providing cheap labor and cheap 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### energy. They will continue to have both an 1


### abundance for decades to come and that energy is 2


### and will continue to be powered by coal no matter 3



### what we do. 4



### The UMWA does not di spute the science 5


### regarding climate change. We never have and we 6


### do not today. We do not dispute the role that 7


### greenhouse gas emissions play in that. We 8



### understand that steps need to be taken to address 9



### this issue. 10


### Our very real concern is that this 11



### pr oposed rule does not do that in a way that is 12



### fair to all

-- all Americans and their families. 13



### So here are my requests of you today. 14


### First, bring these hearings to the coal fields. 15


### You have a responsibility in a representative 16



### form of government to hear from those who are 17


### going to be most affected by this rule. 18



### Second, go back and take a look at how 19


### you can take meaningful steps in this rule to 20


### incentives the development and application of 21


### technologies that will allow our nation to 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### continue to take adva ntage of the most abundant 1



### fuel source we have, which is coal. 2


### And lastly, don’t destroy the lives of 3


### the very people who did what our nation asked of 4


### them, providing the coal that for the last 150 5


### years has energized America and provided us with 6



### the mean s to become the most powerful nation on 7


### earth. Please, hear their voices. Thank you. 8



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Do we have any 9



### other cards? At the moment I think I’m out of 10


### speakers. Is there anybody here who has signed 11


### up and I didn’t get a card yet, or we will take a 12


### short break and adjourn for the moment and see 13


### who else might be interested in speaking. 14



### MR. (Ian) SMITH: I was assigned to speak 15



### at a different time. 16


### MR. POWERS: All right, your right on 17


### time. Perfect. Please give us your name for the 18



### record because I don’t even have it on a card. 19



### MR. (Ian) SMITH: Yeah, my name is Ian 20



### Smith, I

- a

- n, S

- m

- i

- t

- h. 21


### So I live here in Pittsburgh. I’m a 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### solar energy consultant for a small business, 1


### local small business, Energy Independent 2



### Solutions. I’m also an officer with the Solar 3


### Unified Network of Western Pennsylvania, a local 4


### industry and advocacy group. 5


### The opinions I will share today are my 6



### own. I do not speak on behalf of these groups, 7



### but as an individual, a millennial and a 8



### renewable energy professional. 9


### I would like to voice my support for the 10



### EPA’s proposed standard. I call for these 11


### regulations to be implemented without delay, and 12


### without any weakening or compromising of the 13



### standard. 14


### I believe the EPA has carefully weighed 15



### the economic and technological considerations and 16


### the resulting standard finds the right balance of 17


### challenging us Americans to rise to the occasion. 18


### Without being unrealistic or inconsiderate of 19



### some of the economic realities involved with 20



### that, in fact, on the cont rary I believe that the 21



### economics of the Clean Power Plan are so 22

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### overwhelmingly in our best interest as a country 1


### that we are compelled to implement this plan as 2


### quickly as possible. 3



### These economic benefits come in the form 4


### of new jobs in industries, but also health costs 5



### and environmental benefits which, as we know, 6



### have real economic value as New Orleans found out 7


### with their destroyed wetlands provided no barrier 8



### to the effects of the hurricane. 9



### Many have spoken today eloquently about 10



### the realities of a nthropogenetic climate change, 11


### so I’m not going to focus on that. To my 12


### generation and to reasonable people everywhere, 13



### the debate is settled and it’s moved to what to 14


### do about it, and that’s well underway. 15


### I must confess even though if climate 16



### change w as not a reality, if it didn’t exist or 17


### if it was a hoax, or if it was not something 18


### facing us, I don’t think my stance on this issue 19



### would change. 20



### We need to transition to clean renewable 21


### sources of energy for the simple reason that the 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### current energy system is not sustainable. We are 1


### going to run out at some point of fossil fuels, 2



### and we can debate about when that will occur, but 3


### I don’t think anybody would take the stand that 4


### the time to seriously develop alternatives would 5



### be when those are gone or very, very difficult to 6



### obtain. 7


### As they get more scarce and increasingly 8


### so, we’re going to go to more extreme lengths to 9


### reach those remaining reserves and that’s going 10


### to have economical social and ecological 11


### consequences, and we’re already seeing tha t with 12


### some of the exploring for deep sea oil and arctic 13



### sources and elsewhere. 14


### So I would also go on to say even if 15


### fossil fuel extraction and burning did not 16


### pollute the air and water, even if it didn’t 17


### threaten species and biodiversity, even if it 18



### didn ’t cause thousands of premature deaths, 19


### wheezing children and decades long international 20



### conflict and bloodshed, I would still be in favor 21


### of transitioning away from fossil fuels, simply 22

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### for what I said before, they’re not going to last 1



### forever. It’s a fi nite resource and

-- but of 2


### course, we know that, you know, it does all those 3


### other things as well. And so it only makes sense 4


### to take very serious actions, and I think this 5


### EPA ruling is a good first step in that 6



### direction. 7



### So I’m sorry, but the argumen t that the 8


### sun doesn’t always shine and the wind doesn’t 9


### always blow, I’m going to need a better one to be 10


### convinced that there isn’t a better way. I mean 11


### statements like that are insulting to the 12


### ingenuity of Americans and our ability to 13



### overcome problem s. So there’s clearly 14


### substantial challenges involved in the 15



### transition, but there’s also tremendous 16


### opportunity. 17


### We can be a leader in developing the 18


### technologies that the world will use, and I 19


### believe that they will follow, because these 20



### economic rea lities of climate change and 21


### pollution are hitting them as well. 22

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### So and hundreds of thousands of jobs, you 1



### know, I feel for coal miners and their families, 2


### I honestly do, but I truly believe that we can do 3


### this transition in a way that includes the 4


### disp laced jobs and many more jobs. 5


### So I’ll just, you know, close by saying 6



### that this is an all hands on deck effort and the 7


### transition is hiring. Thank you very much. for 8


### coming to Pittsburgh. 9


### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Anybody else in 10


### the audience signed up or would like to sign up? 11


### You have an opportunity right here. Anybody here 12



### with a card? Oh, we have a card. 13



### Okay, before we take any breaks we’ll 14



### hear from two more speakers, Ray Ventrone and 15



### Naomi Swerdlow. 16



### MS. SWERDLOW: Hi, I’m Naomi Swerdlow an d 17


### I’m giving the testimony from Rob Hogg, a state 18



### senator from District 33 in Iowa. 19


### So he’s saying “Dear Administrator 20


### McCarthy, I’m writing to support the proposed 21


### carbon pollution rules. Carbon pollution is a 22

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### threat to the natural environment and Ameri can’s 1


### health and safety. It’s because rising levels of 2


### carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases in the 3


### atmosphere are heating the planet and changing 4


### the climate in dangerous ways.” 5


### “These dangers include changes in weather 6


### and precipitation patterns th at result in 7


### flooding, drought and extreme weather, changes in 8


### the ranges of plants and sex in animals is a 9


### result in the ecological disruptions. Crop loss 10


### and loss of natural resources, rising seas and 11



### ocean as an indication.” 12



### “In Iowa, for example, we have now 13


### suffered 20 major presidential disaster 14


### declarations just since March, 2007. Last month, 15


### June 29th through 30th, Cedar Rapids suffered 16



### another flash flood and severe storm, which has 17


### not yet been declared a presidential disaster, 18



### but one teenager , however, was killed, 19


### infrastructure was damaged, houses were ruined 20


### and hundreds of vehicles were destroyed.” 21



### “Over the last 25 years our state has 22

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### suffered over 20 billion dollars in damage from 1


### floods alone. In 2008 Cedar Rapids suffered an 2



### unprecede nted flood from the Cedar River, that’s 3



### more than 10 feet higher than any previous flood. 4


### It was the most costly flood in state history at 5


### five billion dollars for a city of 125,000, or 6


### $40,000 of damage per resident.” 7


### “These type disasters cause real co st and 8


### real consequences for real people, including the 9


### emotional heartache and economic hardship.” 10


### “In addition to flooding and storms, Iowa 11


### has also faced significant losses from drought in 12


### 2012, and Iowans continue to face ongoing losses 13



### from the drama tic decline of any species like 14


### pheasants and the increasing ecological 15


### disruptions of invasive pests.” 16


### “These losses are just the start of an 17



### era of climate disasters unless we take action. 18


### In an open letter to the United States Senate on 19



### October 21st, 2009 America’s leading scientists 20


### warned us that the severity of climate change 21


### impacts is expected to increase substantially in 22

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### the coming decades.” 1


### “The carbon pollution rules are a central 2


### step to being to limit the future cause of 3



### climate related disa sters. No one set out to 4


### cause the climate problem, but all Americans have 5


### the responsibility to recognize it and do our 6


### part to help stop it. Individual Americans 7


### cannot do it alone. We urgently need our 8


### government to adopt carbon pollution rules to 9



### he lp slow down and eventually stop and reverse 10


### the buildup of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.” 11


### “The proposed rules state significant 12


### flexibility and how to meet the carbon pollution 13



### standards. That makes sense because different 14



### solutions will work best i n different states. 15


### What is clear if that many climate solutions, 16


### such as energy conservation, energy efficiency 17



### demand management, co

- generation, green 18


### buildings, wind, solar and other renewable energy 19



### sources.” 20


### “Work for our economy by creating jobs 21



### an d saving money on fossil fuels. These climate 22

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### solutions also work for our health by reducing 1


### pollution. These solutions are already at work 2



### in Iowa and across America.” 3



### “Some people are concerned that the 4


### carbon pollution rules do not go far enough or 5



### t hat the carbon pollution rules by themselves 6



### will not be effective. These concerns fail to 7


### recognize that the carbon pollution rules are not 8


### the only actions Americans are taking to fight 9


### climate change.” 10


### “For the fight against climate change to 11



### be effec tive, carbon pollution rules are 12



### absolutely necessary, but they are only one of 13



### thousands of actions Americans can take 14


### individually and as a country to safeguard our 15


### people and our property from the start of climate 16


### change and to achieve long term sustain ability. 17



### It is time for a climate action. It is time to 18


### adopt the carbon pollution rules.” 19


### “And then sincerely, State Senator Rob,” 20



### H

- o

- g

- g

-- “Hogg, from District 33.” 21



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. And he was from 22

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### Iowa? 1



### MS. SWERDLOW: Yes. 2



### MR. POWERS: Iowa State Senator, Rob Hogg, 3



### H

- o

- g

- g? 4



### MS. SWERDLOW: Yes. 5


### MS. POWERS: I got that right, great. 6



### COURT REPORTER: Could you state your 7



### name? 8



### MS. SWERDLOW: Oh, I am Naomi Swerdlow 9



### and the last is S

- w

- e

- r

- d

- l

- o

- w. 10



### COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 11



### MS. SWERDLOW : You’re welcome. 12



### MR. POWERS: Thank you. Mr. Ventrone? 13


### MR. VENTRONE: Thank you. My name is 14


### Raymond C. Ventrone. I’m the business manager 15



### for the Boiler makers Local 154 here in 16


### Pittsburgh. I’m here today because I’m concerned 17


### about the loss of jobs due to the EPA’s proposed 18



### Clean Power Plan. 19


### The EPA reports that the reduction of CO2 20



### emissions under the Clean Power Plan is 21


### equivalent to a 30 percent cut from the 2005 22

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### emissions, however, the EPA’s proposal gives no 1


### credit to the states that already h ave reduced 2



### their CO2 emissions due to market drive forces 3


### such as increased natural gas use, the retirement 4


### of older coal generating plants and construction 5


### of new nuclear generation. 6



### Since 2005 CO2 emissions from all fossil 7



### fuel plants have decreased by 13 percent. Many 8


### states highly dependent on coal based generation 9


### have already achieved significant emission 10



### reductions, but still face the additional burden 11


### of further reducing the CO2 emissions on the 12


### short time table set by the EPA’s proposed rule. 13



### W e recognize that the states will have 14


### flexibility in developing the measures to achieve 15


### the CO2 emission reduction goals called for by 16


### the Clean Power Plan. However the stringency of 17


### the state reduction goals will nonetheless have 18


### the effect of dictating for the first time how 19


### states regulate the generation use of energy. 20


### EPA projects that the proposed CO2 21


### reductions would reduce U.S. coal production for 22

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### electric generation by 35 percent from 2009 1


### levels by the year 2020, with a comparable 2



### reduction of co al based electric generation. 3


### Even larger regional coal production reductions 4


### are projected by 2020 for Appalachia, a 63 5


### percent reduction in the west, a 47 percent 6



### reduction. 7


### The EPA also projects that this rule will 8



### cause the loss of 41 to 49 percent g igawatts of 9


### coal generating capacity by 2020. These 10


### retirements are in addition to the 92 gigawatts 11


### of coal capacity that the EPA is already 12


### projecting will shut down between 2012 and 2020, 13


### due in large part to compliance with the 2012 14


### mercury and air tox ic rules. 15


### We believe that losing around 130 16


### gigawatts of baseload coal capacity, nearly 40 17


### percent of the nation’s coal generation fleet in 18



### 2012 raises serious concerns about the future 19


### reliability of our electric power supplies. 20


### Our reliability concerns will no doubt 21


### become even more urgent as existing baseload 22

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### nuclear units begin to retire upon the expiration 1


### of their already extended NRC operating licenses. 2


### Our preliminary estimates of the job 3


### impacts of the EPA’s proposed clean power rule 4



### indicate th e potential loss of 52,000 permanent 5


### direct jobs by 2020 in the utility, oil and coal 6


### sectors due to power plant retirements, and the 7


### loss of 167,000 total direct and indirect jobs. 8


### These direct jobs are all highly skilled 9


### high paying jobs typically in r ural communities 10


### without opportunities for comparable employment. 11


### these impacts do not consider any of the job 12


### losses associated with the closure of plants due 13



### to the MAT rule and other factors. 14


### EPA’s proposal for increasing the 15


### dispatch of natural gas combines cycle units in 16


### addition to the 40 gigawatts of new natural gas 17


### combined cycle capacity that the EPA projects to 18



### come online from 2020 to 2030 will lead to 19


### significant increases in natural gas prices, well 20


### above EPA’s projections. 21


### These price incr eases will be further 22

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### amplified by LNG exports. Independent analysts 1


### project the utility gas demand may rise threefold 2



### above the EPA’s forecast. Consumers and energy 3



### intensive industries will bear the brunt of these 4


### gas price increases. 5



### We have several recommendations about 6


### revisions to the Clean Air Power Plan. The plan 7


### should provide states with credit for prior CO2 8


### reductions as option towards meeting a reasonable 9


### national target for reducing CO2 emissions 10


### through the electric power sector. 11



### The EPA’ s compliance timetable is 12



### unrealistic and unachievable, even with multiyear 13


### compliance average toward the interim and final 14



### targets. 15


### The initial reduction program should be 16



### delayed by several years to allow states and 17


### affected sources adequate time to pre pare and 18


### submit state plans, and to structure an implement 19


### compliance strategies in the most flexible least 20



### cost manner. 21


### The EPA’s proposals for major expansions 22

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### of state energy efficiency, renewable energy 1


### programs interfere with traditional state 2



### author ity and energy planning and appear to be 3


### well beyond the agency’s authority under the 4



### Clean Air Act. 5


### The supreme court’s recent decision on 6


### the GHG permitting the rule contains strong 7


### cautionary language that the court will take a 8


### skeptical view of an ove rly expansive 9


### interpretation of the EPA’s authority to regulate 10



### greenhouse gases. 11


### We believe that the agency should 12


### reconsider the proposed rule’s building block 13


### approach to set state CO2 emissions reduction 14


### goals based on end use energy efficiency. 15



### Incr eased use of natural gas and renewable energy 16


### as well as other beyond the fence emission 17


### reduction strategies. Rather, we urge the EPA to 18


### focus the rule only on options for reducing 19


### emissions within the planned fenceline. 20


### The proposed six percent effic iency 21


### improvement for existing coal units is a step in 22

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### the right direction, but we are doubtful that all 1


### these investments would ever be made, given the 2


### rule’s negative impact on coal generation and new 3


### source review permitting constraints. 4


### Finally, we be lieve that the rule is 5


### premature, since we do not know the extent to 6


### which other nations, particularly large 7


### developing countries will be willing to commit to 8


### truly global program greenhouse as reductions. 9


### We cannot go it alone and expect that our 10



### actio ns will have any meaningful climate impact 11


### in a world that we share. Economy that is using 12



### more coal and other fossil fuels every day
, 13


### developing nations already emit more CO2 than 14


### advanced industrial nations, and the Department 15


### of Energy projects that th eir share of the global 16


### emissions will grow steadily. 17



### And I’d also like to add that I was born 18


### and raised in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania on top of 19


### Mount Washington, and as a young kid, I watched 20


### the change in Pittsburgh. Not only from the 21



### steel mills closin g, but from the power 22

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### generation that was along the rivers, the 1


### cleanup, and I experienced it from a 2



### sixteen

- year

- old kid. I started boiler making at 3


### sixteen years old. I’ve been in this industry 4


### for 40 years. I just started my 40th year, and 5



### I’m the he ad of this boiler maker union, and 6


### we’ve cleaned the air up. We know what we’ve 7



### done. 8



### All the new technology, we know that 9


### technology is coming, the carbon capture and 10


### sequestration is there, but we feel that the EPA, 11


### the President, they have to give u s time. They 12


### have to give this industry time, and we feel that 13


### we need to be on an even playing field. And we 14



### also feel that this should be in the hands of the 15


### President and the Congress and the Senate, not 16



### the EPA. And that’s all I have to say. 17



### MR. PO WER: Thank you. I actually have 18


### one question and I apologize, we haven’t asked 19


### anybody any questions, but you raised the time 20


### aspect. One thing we’ve heard about is

-- sort 21


### of two parts to that. One is how much time 22

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### states need to get a plan together, and you 1



### mentioned that. And then there’s also when

-- 2



### you know, when do we need to show

-- what’s the 3


### target date? I think we thought 2030 was 4


### fairly

-- 2030 was fairly out there. Do you guys 5


### have a view of what you would replace it with for 6



### time? 7



### MR . VENTRONE: It’s really, it’s not the 8



### time

-- it’s not the 2030 timetable, it’s that 9


### they’re saying 30 percent. We’ve already

-- 10


### Pennsylvania has already reduced from 2005 until 11



### now, 13 percent. If we reduce another 30 12



### percent, that’s 43 percent. Put u s on the even 13


### playing field. Give us the credit for the 13 14



### percent that we’ve already reduced from 2005 15


### until present. If they’re going to go with this 16


### rule, give us the credit for what we’ve done is 17


### what we’re saying. But we don’t want the rule at 18



### all. 19



### MR. POWERS: Yeah. Yeah, okay. Thank 20



### you very much. 21



### MR. FELLNER: I have one follow

- up 22

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### question. The six percent reduction in the heat 1


### rate, you mentioned new source review and the 2



### whether

-- but from a practical standpoint, do 3


### you think six percen t is an achievable number 4


### outside of, you know, the other constraints that 5


### you mentioned or is that

-- 6



### MR. VENTRONE: Yeah. 7



### MR. FELLNER: Okay. 8



### MR. VENTRONE: Yeah. 9



### MR. FELLNER: Okay. 10



### MR. POWERS: Than you both 11



### COURT REPORTER: Can I get your last 12



### n ame? 13



### MR. VENTRONE: Ventrone. 14


### COURT REPORTER: Can you spell it? 15



### MR. VENTRONE: V, as in Victor, 16



### e

- n

- t

- r

- o

- n

- e. 17



### COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 18



### MR. VENTRONE: Thank you. 19



### MR. POWERS: Any other speakers? I 20


### appear to be out of cards once again. I have 21


### about 7:36. Why don’t we adjourn for about ten 22

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### minutes, till about quarter of eight and we’ll 1


### check back and see if anybody still wishes to 2


### speak. I think we’ll

-- if we don’t have anybody 3


### else somewhere between a quarter of eight and 4


### eight we’ll close a t eight. We’ll close at eight 5


### if no one else comes. Thank you. 6


### [Recess from 7:37 to 7:59 p.m.] 7



### MR. POWERS: Could I have everybody’s 8


### attention in the room, please. It is now 8:00 by 9


### my watch. We have looked to see if anybody else 10


### would like to speak . Seeing no one and the 11


### lights dimming, we are going to declare the 12


### hearing closed for today. We will welcome people 13


### for tomorrow’s session at 9:00 tomorrow morning 14


### but for today the hearing is closed. Thank you 15


### all for coming. 16


### [Hearing concluded at 8: 00 p.m.] 17

18

19

20

21

22

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