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 CHICAGO PUBLIC HEARING

 EPA PROPOSAL

 FEDERAL IMPLEMENTATION PLANS

 TO REDUCE INTERSTATE TRANSPORT OF

 FINE PARTICULATE MATTER AND OZONE

 CHICAGO, ILLINOIS

 AUGUST 19, 2010

Reported by:

Cynthia J. Conforti, CSR, RPR, CRR

License No. 084-003064
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1 TRANSCRIPT OF THE CHICAGO PUBLIC HEARING, EPA

2 PROPOSAL, FEDERAL IMPLEMENTATION PLANS TO REDUCE

3 INTERSTATE TRANSPORT OF FINE PARTICULATE MATTER

4 AND OZONE HEARING, held at the Wyndham Hotel,

5 633 North St. Clair Street, Chicago, Illinois,

6 commencing at 8:59 a.m. on Thursday, August 19,

7 2010, heard before a Panel of the EPA, reported

8 by Cynthia J. Conforti, Certified Shorthand

9 Reporter, License No. 084-003064, for the State

10 of Illinois.

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1 EPA PANEL MEMBERS

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3 Jeff Clark

4 Doug Aburano

5 Sam Napolitano

6 Sonja Rodman

7 Tim Smith

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1 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Good morning,

2 everyone, and thank you for attending this

3 public hearing on EPA's proposed Transport Rule.

4 My name is Jeff Clark. I'm with

5 the EPA's Office of Air Quality Planning and

6 Standards. I'm associate director there.

7 We're located in Research Triangle

8 Park in North Carolina.

9 Before I start, I just want to go

10 ahead and introduce the Panel here.

11 On the far right here is Doug Aburano.

12 Doug is from EPA's regional office here in

13 Chicago.

14 This is Sam Napolitano. Sam is the

15 Director of Clean Air Markets Division for EPA

16 in Washington, D.C.

17 This is Sonja Rodman. Sonja is a

18 lawyer with the Office of General Counsel in

19 Washington, and then Tim Smith is with my

20 office, Office of Air Quality Planning and

21 Standards also in Research Triangle Park.

22 I'm chairing today's hearing. We are

23 going to go through a series of witnesses.

24 We're interested in listening to your comments
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1 on this rule.

2 The proposal would require 31 states

3 and the District of Columbia to significantly

4 improve air quality by reducing power plant

5 emissions.

6 Specifically, the proposal would

7 require significant reductions in sulfur dioxide

8 and nitrogen oxide that cross state lines and

9 contribute to downwind nonattainment problems.

10 These pollutants react in the

11 atmosphere, form fine particles and ground-level

12 ozone and are transported long distances, making

13 it difficult for other areas, states, to achieve

14 national standards.

15 Fine particles and ozone cause a

16 series of human health effects and environmental

17 damages including premature mortality, chronic

18 and acute bronchitis, heart attacks,

19 hospitalization, emergency room visits, asthma

20 attacks, acid deposition, damage to sensitive

21 forests and coastal waters and impaired

22 visibility in national parks and wilderness

23 areas.

24 Emissions reductions under this
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1 proposed rule would begin to take effect very

2 quickly in 2012, within one year of the Rule

3 being finalized.

4 By 2014, the Rule and other state and

5 EPA actions would reduce power plant emissions

6 by 71 percent over 2005 levels.

7 Power plant NOx emissions would drop by

8 52 percent over that level as well.

9 We estimate that by 2014 this proposed

10 rule, if promulgated, would prevent 14,000 to

11 36,000 premature deaths annually, as well as

12 provide many health and environmental benefits.

13 The portion of the benefits that can

14 be quantified is more than 120 to 290 billion

15 annually in 2014, and the benefits exceed the

16 cost substantially. The costs we project to be

17 $2.8 billion.

18 The Transport Rule would help all but

19 a very few areas in the eastern part of the

20 country meet the 1997 Fine Particle and Ozone

21 standards and the National Ambient Air Quality

22 standards.

23 In addition, the Rule would make major

24 strides in helping states towards meeting the
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1 2006 24-hour PM standard the EPA established.

2 The EPA is proposing one approach for

3 reducing SO2 and nitrogen oxide emissions in

4 states covered by this rule and is taking

5 comment on two other alternatives.

6 Our preferred approach in the

7 proposal, EPA is to set a pollution limit (or a

8 budget) for each of the 31 states and the

9 District of Columbia.

10 This approach would allow interstate

11 trading among power plants but assures that each

12 state will meet its pollution control

13 obligations.

14 In one of the alternatives, EPA is

15 proposing to set a pollution limit or budget for

16 each state. This option would allow trading

17 only among power plants within a state.

18 And, in a second alternative, EPA is

19 proposing to set a pollution limit for each

20 state and to specify the allowable emission

21 limit for each power plant and allow some

22 averaging.

23 This proposed rule is designed to

24 replace EPA's 2005 Clean Air Interstate Rule or
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1 CAIR, and in December 2008 a court decision kept

2 the requirements of the CAIR rule in place

3 temporarily but directed us, EPA, to issue a new

4 rule to implement the Clean Air Act requirements

5 concerning the transport of pollution across

6 state boundaries, and this action is a response

7 to the Court's concerns.

8 We are accepting oral comments today

9 on our proposal and certainly will take any

10 written statement that people have as well any

11 written materials.

12 We are going to hold this hearing

13 today. We have got one next week in

14 Philadelphia and the following week in Atlanta.

15 Transcripts of all three of these

16 hearings will be available as part of the

17 official record for the Rule, and we will

18 consider all of these comments as we look

19 forward to completing the final rule.

20 We have a court reporter here today

21 who will be transcribing everything that is

22 said, and that transcript will be put into the

23 docket.

24 There is a handout in the registration
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1 area that details information for submitting

2 written comments if anybody would like to do

3 that beyond their oral comments here today.

4 With that, I'd like to go ahead and

5 just talk about how we are going to run the

6 hearing.

7 We are going to call the speakers up.

8 We'll call you up in pairs, two at a time.

9 I think we are going to be okay

10 time-wise on this. Just what we see from

11 sign-ups, I think we are not going to be overly

12 jammed, but it will be somewhat busy this

13 morning, so we will call you up two at a time,

14 and ask when I call the names for you to come up

15 and have a seat, and then, in order to be fair

16 to everyone, we're going to hold you to

17 5 minutes.

18 I'm going to not be real, real tight

19 on this because, again, we have a little bit of

20 give time here, but when you're through

21 speaking, if you could stay up there, if you're

22 the first speaker, if both of you could stay up

23 there until the two speakers have presented,

24 that would be great.
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1 Then we're going to ask possibly some

2 clarifying questions of you, we may or may not,

3 and then we'll call up the next pair and go

4 through in that way.

5 We have a timekeeping system here

6 that will show up -- there's a light where you

7 are that will be green for four minutes.

8 When the yellow light comes on, that

9 means you've got a minute to go until the

10 5 minutes is up.

11 When the red light comes on, if you

12 could sum up at that point, we'd appreciate that

13 very much.

14 As I said, we're not going to --

15 because we're not overwhelmed here, I don't want

16 to just cut you off at 5 minutes, so we'll give

17 you a little bit flexibility, but please do not

18 abuse that just to be fair to everyone,

19 especially people that have other business this

20 morning that they want to get to.

21 We will be here through lunch. We

22 will be here up to a lunch period which I

23 believe is what time, 11:30; is that right.

24 We are here until noon. We'll take a
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1 lunch break. We'll pick up again at 1:30, go

2 until 5, we'll have a dinner break, and then

3 pick up again I believe at 6, and we'll stay

4 here until 8 o'clock at night, so if anyone

5 needs to have people that are coming or could

6 potentially come at that point, we'll be here

7 through then.

8 And, essentially, if we're backed up

9 with speakers, we'll go beyond 8 if we need to.

10 We very much appreciate you being

11 here, and we're looking forward to your

12 comments.

13 And with that, unless anyone else has

14 anything to add...

15 I do want to say that the most

16 important person in this room by far is Cynthia,

17 who is the court reporter. At times, if we use

18 acronyms she may not understand, we may try to

19 get a clarification.

20 Also, if your name is somewhat

21 difficult, if you could spell it when you come

22 up, that would be great. That would be very

23 helpful to her as well.

24 With that, I would like to go ahead
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1 and call up the first two speakers, Angela Tin

2 and Ashley Collins, please.

3 Angela, you are welcome to go first if

4 you'd like.

5 MS. ANGELA TIN: Good morning.

6 My name is Angela Tin, and I am the

7 Vice President of Environmental Health for the

8 American Lung Association of the Upper Midwest.

9 I am responsible for the environmental

10 concern in the seven states of the midwest

11 region, four of which will be directly impacted

12 by the Interstate Transport Rule.

13 The ALAUM is responsible for the

14 states of Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Minnesota,

15 North and South Dakota and Wisconsin.

16 In these seven states there are 40

17 counties that are in some degree of

18 nonattainment for the criteria pollutants.

19 Thank you for allowing me to provide

20 comments today.

21 My environmental career includes over

22 20 years of experience with the Illinois

23 Environmental Protection Agency, and, more

24 directly, as compliance manager in the Bureau of
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1 Air.

2 During that tenure, my job included

3 bridging the gap between engineers' inspection

4 reports and determining if there were violations

5 of state law and the Clean Air Act.

6 If violations were noted, we then

7 worked closely with facilities to correct the

8 violations, or in the alternative, take the

9 appropriate corrective action through the

10 enforcement, by working with our legal staff,

11 the Illinois Attorney General's Office or

12 through referral to U.S. EPA.

13 Most times though there were no

14 emission violations because the discharges were

15 within the point-source permitted limits.

16 My background is presented to

17 illustrate the numerous hours, time and effort

18 taken by the Illinois EPA to achieve the

19 necessary air quality standards which meet state

20 and federal law, and yet we are here today

21 making comments on a proposed federal rule

22 because we continue to have noncompliance for

23 these 40 counties with deadlines rapidly

24 approaching.
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1 Currently, in Illinois there are 13

2 areas that are designated nonattainment.

3 The proposed rule puts everyone on a

4 common footing. Regardless of where they live,

5 they will be equally protected.

6 I would like to respond directly to

7 two items in the proposed rule.

8 I have had some experience with a

9 market-based system by helping to develop the

10 first VOM emissions trading program in Illinois.

11 I would recommended U.S. EPA's

12 preferred approach of setting a pollution budget

13 for each of the states, which allows for limited

14 interstate trading, but assures that each state

15 meet its pollution control technology.

16 Secondly, we have some concern that

17 the City of Chicago will not meet the fine

18 particulate standards by 2014, even with the

19 implementation of this proposed rule.

20 If the U.S. EPA's aware of this

21 situation, and if expectations prove to be true,

22 we urge U.S. EPA to take the proactive steps

23 right now to address the air quality concerns

24 rather than wait for 2014.
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1 The American Lung Association of the

2 Upper Midwest recommends that U.S. EPA works

3 towards cleaner air by promulgating the

4 Interstate Transport Rule.

5 As I said, it's a very complex rule

6 and hard to read, over 1300 pages of regulatory

7 text, which I have read.

8 U.S. EPA did a lot of work to get

9 here, and we applaud your innovation and

10 leadership. Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much.

12 Ms. Collins.

13 MS. ASHLEY COLLINS: My name is Ashley

14 Collins, and I'm the Environmental Health

15 Manager at the Respiratory Health Association of

16 Metropolitan Chicago.

17 Respiratory Health Association is a

18 104-year old non-for-profit lung health

19 organization based in Chicago dedicated to

20 promoting healthy lungs and fighting lung

21 disease through research, advocacy and

22 education.

23 To that end, RHA serves an estimated 1

24 million Cook County residents living with
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1 asthma, lung cancer, chronic obstructive

2 pulmonary disease, emphysema and other lung

3 diseases.

4 On behalf of our organization, we

5 wanted to thank the U.S. EPA for the opportunity

6 to comment on the Agency's proposed Clean Air

7 Transport Rule.

8 As an organization that represents

9 people who have lung disease, we came here today

10 to applaud EPA for their work and strongly

11 encourage the agency to do more to clean up

12 power plant pollution.

13 To us, EPA's pollution rule isn't

14 about scenic vistas and pretty skylines. To us,

15 it's a matter of public health.

16 Coal-fired power plant emission is

17 deadly and responsible for triggering tens of

18 thousands of asthma attacks, heart attacks,

19 strokes and missed school and workdays each

20 year.

21 EPA's proposal is a long and overdue

22 step for clean air.

23 For decades, polluters have refused to

24 invest in modern pollution controls. As a
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1 result, coal-fired power plants continue to be

2 the single largest sources of air pollution in

3 the midwest, Illinois and Chicago.

4 On Chicago's west side, the Fisk and

5 Crawford power plants spew 5 million metric tons

6 of air pollution each year, causing asthma

7 attacks, heart attacks, and early deaths

8 throughout the city and state.

9 A dozen more coal-fired power plants

10 ring the city of Chicago within the tri-state

11 region and pollute our air.

12 It's time for our government to stop

13 putting profits ahead of people. We have the

14 technology to clean up these plants. It's time

15 to tell polluters to use it.

16 To this end, while EPA's proposed

17 Transport Rule is a significant step for clean

18 air, we strongly urge the Agency to tighten its

19 rule.

20 First of all, we urge the EPA to

21 support steeper cuts in sulfur dioxide and

22 nitrogen oxide which form fine particulate and

23 ground-level ozone pollution.

24 New science has shown fine particulate
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1 and ozone pollution to be more harmful than

2 previously thought, so it's imperative that the

3 EPA takes further action to eliminate the

4 formation of these deadly pollutants.

5 Moreover, stronger cuts in sulfur

6 dioxide and nitrogen oxides will be vital in

7 helping the states meet tougher particulate

8 matter and ozone rules your agency is currently

9 seeking to revise.

10 Second, we urge the EPA to require

11 modern pollution controls at all coal plants.

12 Under the proposed Transport Rule,

13 there is no guarantee that individual plants

14 will install pollution controls.

15 Allowing older plants in some

16 communities to evade pollution controls is

17 unacceptable and does nothing for the people who

18 live near the plant.

19 Moreover, allowing some plants off the

20 hook brings up serious environmental justice

21 concerns which seems at odds with EPA's new

22 initiative to address environmental justice

23 disparities.

24 We applaud EPA for its work to reduce
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1 emissions through dirty coal plants, but more

2 needs to be done to reduce emissions from power

3 plants.

4 For people who suffer from lung

5 disease, clean air is not a luxury. It's a

6 requirement.

7 Therefore, we urge U.S. EPA to tighten

8 the proposed Clean Air Transport Rule to ensure

9 all people are protected.

10 Thank you for your consideration.

11 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you both very

12 much.

13 Let me just ask, any questions or

14 comments.

15 MS. RODMAN: I do have one question,

16 Ashley.

17 I was wondering whether there were

18 specific areas of EPA concerns that were of

19 particular interest to your organization.

20 MS. ASHLEY COLLINS: Illinois EPA is

21 still modeling how this will impact

22 Illinois-specific plants, so we don't exactly

23 know right now, but we're hoping once we're done

24 with that analysis, we'll develop more thorough
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1 written comments in particular.

2 MS. RODMAN: Okay. Thank you very

3 much.

4 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Any other questions?

5 (No response.)

6 CHAIRMAN CLARK: I would just comment

7 I'm impressed that you read the Rule. You look

8 like a well-rested individual.

9 Thank you both very much.

10 MS. ANGELA TIN: Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Next two speakers,

12 please, Jan Gehrig and Daniel Chartier.

13 MS. JAN GEHRIG: Good morning.

14 Thank you for this opportunity.

15 My name is Jan Gehrig. I live at 733

16 Holland Lane in Romeoville, Illinois.

17 I am a mental health therapist by

18 profession retired after 15 years from the Will

19 County Health Department.

20 In addition, I have over 20 years

21 experience with grassroots movements regarding

22 social justice issues.

23 Today I am here as president and

24 representative of Cool Joliet, a recently formed
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1 coalition of citizens and environmental groups

2 in the greater Joliet area.

3 Cool Joliet is concerned about the

4 water we drink, the food grown from our soil,

5 but, most especially, about the air we breathe.

6 I have two little grandsons, both of

7 whom suffer from asthma. I have a daughter who

8 suffers from asthma. Breathing treatments,

9 medication, inhalers are constant companions of

10 all three.

11 Even very small children learn to keep

12 the inhaler handy lest they have an attack.

13 Air becomes a hazard to these children

14 largely due to the pollutants in our air.

15 Now, if there was no possible

16 solution, we would be forced to tolerate the

17 situation.

18 Midwest Generation is choosing to

19 address the problem in some of its plants as

20 evidenced by tentative plans to install

21 scrubbers on plants in Joliet west of the river.

22 As Joliet residents, we are grateful

23 that Midwest Generation will be cleaning up some

24 of its coal power plants because of power plant
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1 rules adopted by the state of Illinois.

2 But don't we all deserve clean air?

3 Midwest Generation is choosing to slip by,

4 suggesting they're actually addressing the

5 problems which they alone have created.

6 Midwest Generation has the ability to

7 install pollution controls in all of their

8 plants.

9 The question is do they have the will

10 to do the right thing.

11 There is no question this is a mandate

12 to act. These coal-powered plants can be

13 converted to natural gas, pollution-control

14 devices installed or the plant should be closed.

15 To continue as planned is not an option.

16 It's really shameful that we live in a

17 country with all the technology, all the wealth,

18 but sometimes without the will to do what is

19 right.

20 We will not stand aside. We call on

21 Midwest Generation to address the pollution in

22 all of its plants now.

23 Anything less is a vote for increased

24 deaths related to polluted air.
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1 We also call on the U.S. EPA as part

2 of the Transport Rule to not allow for cap and

3 trade of these deadly pollutants.

4 All plants should be required to

5 install pollution controls. Polluters shouldn't

6 be allowed to pick what plants they clean up

7 when the plants are a threat to public health.

8 Thank you for your attention to these

9 concerns of our Joliet citizens.

10 MR. DAN CHARTIER: Good morning.

11 My name is Dan Chartier. I'm the

12 director of Environmental Markets and Air

13 Quality Programs at the Edison Electric

14 Institute in Washington, DC.

15 EEI is the association of U.S.

16 shareholder-owned electric companies. Our

17 members serve 95 percent of the ultimate

18 customers in the shareholder-owned segment in

19 the industry, and we represent approximately

20 70 percent of the U.S. electric power industry.

21 Let me begin by saying that EEI shares

22 a commitment with the Environmental Protection

23 Agency to reduce emissions for power-generating

24 facilities and is generally supportive of the
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1 policy objectives underlying EPA's proposed

2 Transport Rule.

3 In fact, the electric power industry

4 has already made significant progress in

5 reducing emissions in sulfur dioxide, nitrogen

6 oxide, even while the nation has consumed more

7 energy and the economy has grown.

8 In particular, national SO2 emissions

9 from power plants in 2009 were 64 percent lower

10 than in 1990, and national power plant NOx

11 emissions declined 70 percent over the same

12 period.

13 Further, power generation of NOx

14 emissions during the ozone season in the

15 20-state region covered by the NOx Budget

16 Trading Program of Eastern U.S. have declined

17 81 percent since 1990.

18 In order to continue to effectively

19 produce electricity and reduce emissions in the

20 electric sector, we need clear, coordinated and

21 flexible regulations that provide certainty for

22 power companies to plan multibillion-dollar

23 investments, many of which must serve decades

24 into the future.
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1 Only through carefully crafted

2 regulations can EEI members continue to minimize

3 costs to consumers and impacts on shareholders,

4 avoid straining natural gas supply and prices,

5 and continue efficient and reliable electric

6 generation using diverse domestic energy

7 resources.

8 While some of our member companies

9 have stated that they are able to meet the

10 requirements of the proposed rule due to some

11 combination of individual company approaches to

12 addressing environmental issues, state

13 requirements, settlement agreements, fuel mix or

14 other factors, other EI members have concerns

15 regarding the proposed Transport Rule.

16 One concern is the proposed Transport

17 Rule establishes new reduction requirements that

18 must be met only 6 and 30 months after the final

19 Transport Rule is issued.

20 Some of our member companies have

21 expressed concern that EPA's assumptions

22 regarding their current control technology

23 projects may be inaccurate and that they will

24 have difficulty in achieving the initial 2012
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1 compliance deadlines.

2 There is also concern by some

3 companies that simultaneously adding controls at

4 many units can stress labor, materials and state

5 and local regulatory agencies, and that

6 completing simultaneous control installations by

7 the end of 2013 to meet 2014's compliance

8 deadline is unrealistic.

9 This may be especially true in nine

10 states where EGUs would need to reduce their SO2

11 emissions by at least 50 percent from 2009 to

12 2014.

13 It is important to recognize that some

14 EEI member companies believe that the full

15 schedule from conceptualization to regulatory

16 approval by financial regulators and air quality

17 permitting agencies through the construction and

18 operation of an SO2 scrubber can take up to 60

19 months.

20 This assumption stands in stark

21 contrast to EPA's estimate that a new scrubber

22 can be installed in 27 months.

23 EEI believes that it is imperative

24 that EPA, the Federal Regulatory Commission, the
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1 Department of Energy and states work together to

2 utilize all tools available to meet compliance

3 targets while maintaining electric system

4 reliability.

5 EEI has misgivings regarding the

6 proposed Transport Rule providing little long

7 term certainty because its requirements will be

8 superceded in the very near future.

9 EPA mentions in the proposal that it

10 is likely to alter this proposal to address

11 wintertime emissions related to attaining the 24

12 hour PM2.5 standard.

13 EPA will also issue a separate

14 proposal regarding NOx emissions related to the

15 1997 ozone standard.

16 EPA has also indicated that it will

17 issue a Transport Rule II related to a tightened

18 ozone standard, and it is almost certain that

19 EPA will propose an additional major Transport

20 Rule by 2013 to address more stringent late 2011

21 National Ambient Air Quality Standard for

22 particulate matter.

23 These rules are all in addition to the

24 power generator MACT rule, which will not be
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1 finalized until late 2011, about six months

2 after the final Transport Rule and which will

3 greatly influence company decision regarding SO2

4 control equipment.

5 Apart from our concerns, EEI supports

6 several aspects of the flexibility provisions

7 EPA has proposed.

8 EEI supports, among EPA's stated

9 options, the Agency's preferred approach that

10 would allow limited interstate trading.

11 The alternative approach discussed by

12 EPA in rulemaking would provide much less

13 flexibility and unnecessarily increase costs of

14 emission reductions.

15 EEI supports EPA's proposal not to use

16 the variability limit approach during 2012 and

17 2013, and to allow banking of surplus emission

18 reductions.

19 However, even with EPA's preferred

20 approach for limiting emissions trading, EEI is

21 concerned that some of the companies may choose

22 to avoid emissions trading because they would

23 seek to avoid the risk that EPA's after-the-fact

24 variability analysis brings to the compliance
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1 demonstration process.

2 EEI is also concerned that trading

3 restrictions between Group 1 and Group 2

4 facilities can pose a problem for some of our

5 other members with service territories that

6 cross state lines but where facilities lie

7 within the same air shed.

8 This concludes my final remarks.

9 EEI will be supplementing these oral

10 remarks with additional written comments.

11 Thank you for the opportunity to

12 provide these comments today.

13 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Sure. Anybody have

14 any questions?

15 (No response.)

16 CHAIRMAN CLARK: I have just one, Dan.

17 You were just talking about some of

18 the member companies being concerned about some

19 of the assumptions that EPA was maybe being

20 inaccurate.

21 I assume you're going to provide

22 written comments that will expand on that.

23 MR. DAN CHARTIER: Absolutely.

24 The member companies will specifically
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1 address their concerns. We may also take the

2 opportunity to summarize some of those concerns

3 in EEI's comments for all of its members that

4 we'll be submitting.

5 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. Great. Thank

6 you both very much.

7 Next please, Ryan Howell and Michael

8 Johnson.

9 Mr. Howell, if you would like to

10 begin.

11 MR. RYAN HOWELL: Sure.

12 I'm the city coordinator for

13 Greenpeace Chicago for the front-line program.

14 A lot of Pilsen residents I know

15 describe a noticeable film on the backs of their

16 cars, a gray haze against an otherwise clear sky

17 and forces them to keep their windows shut.

18 While many have not made the

19 connection just yet, they're actually describing

20 the fly ash deposited across the neighborhood by

21 the Fisk power plant.

22 A lot of these residents can feel

23 helpless from time to time. Some struggle to

24 afford school supplies or any other necessity.
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1 These families are often left unaware

2 of what's actually behind their children's

3 ailments or are simply too disenfranchised to

4 fight a real fight.

5 Although when these residents are

6 confronted with the facts, their eyes widen with

7 just knowing how to flip the switch on all of

8 this.

9 They see the possibility of a very

10 different future, one without filmy window panes

11 and breathing treatments.

12 Today we show our solidarity with

13 these communities in voicing our support for the

14 Transport Rule as an initial step in the right

15 direction.

16 Many of those living in the shadows of

17 coal plants do not have the luxury of choosing

18 where they live and see industrial pollution

19 loom as an irrefutable fact of life.

20 For years residents from Chicago to

21 Milwaukee and Detroit to Cleveland and to Toledo

22 have been forced to pay a healthcare price, the

23 healthcare price of so-called clean, cheap

24 energy.
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1 As Greenpeace's total cost of coal

2 demonstrates, when factoring in public health

3 and environmental cost of power generation, coal

4 ceases to be cheap energy.

5 For that reason coal executives will

6 undoubtedly argue that clean air is too

7 expensive and not the responsibility as a means

8 of deflecting attention from the fact that coal

9 will soon cease to be a profitable viable energy

10 source.

11 The American people have generously

12 subsidized plant pollution with their

13 hard-earned healthcare dollars.

14 The Transport Rule helps put the

15 burden back on the polluters for the damage they

16 cause and places responsibility squarely where

17 it belongs, not on the very people being

18 victimized by big coal's corporate greed.

19 To add insult to injury, many of the

20 worst offending plants, like Fisk and Crawford,

21 do not serve the communities they pollute and

22 rely on utility ratepayers to survive through

23 opaque revenue streams like capacity markets.

24 By ending public health subsidies and
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1 a free lunch for filthy plants, we can ensure

2 that energy efficiency and renewable energy also

3 have a place at the table when discussing

4 compliance with the Transport Rule. Thank you.

5 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much.

6 Mr. Johnson.

7 MR. MICHAEL JOHNSON: Thank you very

8 much. It's a pleasure to be here back in my

9 hometown.

10 I am Greenpeace's Global Warming

11 Senior Analyst in Washington, D.C., and it's a

12 pleasure to be here to provide comments today on

13 the Transport Rule.

14 It's a bittersweet occasion that we're

15 here.

16 Obviously, there's a great opportunity

17 to make strides in reducing significant amounts

18 of pollution and providing relief for millions

19 of residents across the midwest and across the

20 country from coal plant pollution, but, at the

21 same time, we're faced with a lot of the facts

22 that as many as 36,000 people and $290 billion a

23 year are being victimized unnecessarily because

24 of coal plant pollution.
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1 So, really, the 71 percent reduction

2 in SO2 and the 52 percent reduction in NOx is a

3 great step in the right direction as my

4 colleague Ryan Howell mentioned, but here in

5 Chicago, obviously, the Fisk and Crawford power

6 plants loom large in the landscape.

7 More than 300,000 people live within

8 3 miles of each plant, and according to a

9 Harvard University study, just these two plants

10 alone cause 41 premature deaths, 550 hospital

11 admissions and 2800 asthma attacks annually.

12 Clearly, as a society, we can and must

13 do better than this and tell these utilities to

14 either clean up or shut down.

15 Greenpeace firmly believes that no one

16 should have to die to keep the lights on, so on

17 behalf of families who suffer from coal-plant

18 pollution day in and day out and thousands of

19 our supporters across the midwest and U.S.,

20 Greenpeace expresses its support of the

21 Transport Rule as a means to clean air across 31

22 states and the District of Columbia.

23 With a cost-to-benefit ratio of more

24 than 100 to 1 even industry leaders from Exelon,
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1 PSEG and Constellation Energy can see that the

2 Transport Rule provides cost-effective

3 common-sense protection of public health.

4 Based on the Clean Air Act's 42-fold

5 return on investment, it stands to reason that

6 the Transport Rule promises to deliver many

7 similar air quality and cost-of-protection

8 benefits of care, and, indeed, go further as it

9 should.

10 Given the history of backdoor deals,

11 especially here in Illinois, with Fisk and

12 Crawford, that allow polluters to pick and

13 choose which plants to clean up, the Transport

14 Rule and EPA should require statewide emissions

15 and plant-specific reductions to minimize the

16 influence of emissions trading and the fact that

17 many of these people in communities from Joliet

18 to Chicago are being left behind.

19 Not only will the Rule help clear the

20 air in the midwest, but, obviously, downstream

21 in the northeast as well.

22 So the stakes are large, especially

23 given the fact that air quality has worsened

24 sharply this summer in the northeast due to a
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1 warming climate and a record hot year.

2 The proposed Transport Rule can also

3 help promote energy efficiency as a

4 cost-effective alternative to lifelines for

5 filthy plants by raising the bar for pollution

6 control technology.

7 So across these 31 states and District

8 of Columbia come 2012, residents will hopefully

9 be able to breathe a little easier thanks to

10 serious cost-effective reduction of sulfur

11 dioxide and nitrogen oxide emissions thanks to

12 sound rule-making in the public's interest.

13 Thank you.

14 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you, guys.

15 Any questions.

16 MS. RODMAN: I have a couple.

17 Mr. Howell, you had environmental

18 justice concern.

19 Like I mentioned to Ashley, if there

20 are specific communities that you're aware of

21 that would like to bring to our attention

22 environmental concerns related to this rule, I

23 would encourage you to do so, either now or in

24 written comments you subsequently submit.
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1 That is indeed a topic we're very

2 interested in. Thank you for your remarks in

3 that regard.

4 Also, this is more of a comment than a

5 question again.

6 We do in the Rule request comment on

7 the relationship between energy efficiency and

8 this rule and ways in which this rule could be

9 used to promote energy efficiency, and that's

10 another topic we're very interested in and, you

11 know, we appreciate your comments on that as

12 well.

13 MR. RYAN HOWELL: Some of the

14 communities that at least I'm familiar with

15 personally would be the Pilsen community and the

16 Little Village community here in Chicago.

17 MR. MICHAEL JOHNSON: I would also add

18 that there are a variety of plants, especially

19 in the midwest in Region 5, especially Lake

20 Shore and Bay Shore and Cleveland and Toledo,

21 there's River Rouge in Michigan and Valley Plant

22 and South Oak Creek Plant in Milwaukee, all of

23 these plants have a large number of people

24 living within a 3-mile radius, and many of them
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1 also have high levels of poverty and EJ

2 communities within those areas.

3 With respect to energy efficiency, I

4 think one of the key issues here is the issue of

5 capacity markets and what's being done to

6 address a lot of these plants, especially

7 merchant plants who are really operating on the

8 open market. They're not serving utility

9 territories.

10 And, as such, they're a little more

11 slippery than your traditional plants that serve

12 utility territories.

13 So I think working with the ISOs is

14 going to be key in determining how -- I think

15 ISO in New England has been fairly successful in

16 using efficiency to bid into some of these

17 capacity markets, whether it's demand-side

18 response, demand-side management, efficiency

19 mechanisms even, even air conditioning side

20 cleaning.

21 So I think some of those things can

22 help to, for one, reduce the capacity prices

23 that some of these utilities are receiving as

24 subsidies from the rate trade and help to put
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1 some of that money back into the pockets of

2 people as they're trying to meet their energy

3 needs in an affordable way that also reduces

4 emissions.

5 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. Great. Thank

6 you guys very much.

7 Next speakers, please, are Joshua

8 Berman and Jerry Mead-Lucero.

9 MR. JOSHUA BERMAN: Thank you for the

10 opportunity --

11 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Just want to be sure.

12 You're Joshua Berman.

13 MR. JOSHUA BERMAN: Yes, that would be

14 correct.

15 I'm Joshua Berman. I'm an attorney at

16 the midwest office of National Resources Defense

17 Council, NRDC here in Chicago.

18 I just wanted to thank you for the

19 opportunity to submit testimony on the U.S.

20 EPA's proposed Transport Rule.

21 NRDC is a national non-profit public

22 interest organization that is dedicated to

23 protecting human health in the environment.

24 NRDC's decision to open an office in
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1 the midwest in 2007 was motivated in part by the

2 organization's recognition of the importance of

3 air quality and climate change issues in this

4 part of the country.

5 NRDC currently has over 1.3 million

6 members and on-line activists nationwide,

7 including nearly 20,000 members in Illinois and

8 nearly 7,000 members in Cook County.

9 I am here today both to commend the

10 EPA on its proposal to significantly reduce

11 emissions of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide

12 for coal-fired power plants and also to

13 encourage the EPA to go even further in reducing

14 emissions in its final rule.

15 U.S. EPA's proposed regulations are

16 both necessary and timely and should be

17 strengthened in order to realize the enormous

18 potential health benefits that will accrue from

19 ensuring the nation's ambient air quality

20 standards are achieved throughout the country.

21 First, EPA's Transport Rule is

22 necessary because air quality in coal plant

23 emissions contributes to tens of thousands of

24 premature deaths each year, and states such as
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1 Illinois cannot accomplish the needed

2 improvements in air quality acting alone.

3 Pollution emitted from coal-fired

4 power plants, including sulfur dioxide and

5 nitrogen oxide contributes to a wide range of

6 human health impacts, including respiratory

7 illness, bronchitis, heart attacks, asthma

8 attacks and premature death.

9 Based on the number of studies EPA has

10 projected that the proposed Transport Rule will

11 reduce premature mortality annually by 14,000 to

12 36,000, as well as preventing approximately

13 26,000 hospital admissions and emergency room

14 visits and 240,000 asthma attacks each year.

15 Moreover, states cannot achieve much

16 needed improvements in air quality acting on

17 their own.

18 The air quality in Cook County, for

19 example, is adversely impacted by emissions from

20 ten nearby states and other nonattaining areas

21 throughout the midwest by interstate pollution.

22 Even if federal and state regulations

23 were fully enforced in each individual state in

24 the midwest, it would be necessary to address
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1 such interstate transport and air pollution in

2 order for Illinois and other midwestern states

3 to fully achieve ambient air quality standards.

4 Second, EPA's regulation of coal-fired

5 power plant is timely because reductions from

6 these highly-polluting facilities are long

7 overdue.

8 The vast majority of sulfur dioxide

9 and nitrogen oxide pollution emitted by

10 coal-fired power plants comes from the

11 50 percent of facilities that lack basic

12 emission controls for these pollutants.

13 These plants are, for the most part,

14 decades old and were initially grandfathered

15 when the Clean Air Act was passed, and

16 improperly continue to operate today much as

17 they did when they were built in the 1950s and

18 60s.

19 The means to achieve lower emissions

20 of SO2 and NOx have long been available.

21 Between fuel switching and readily

22 implemented control technologies for reducing

23 emissions of these pollutants, there is no

24 question that EPA's proposed emission reduction
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1 and be quickly and affordably achieved.

2 Coal plants have been allowed to

3 operate inexpensively only by externalizing

4 billions of dollars in health costs on citizens

5 nationwide.

6 It is high time for these plants to

7 begin to internalize some of the costs they have

8 long foisted on the public.

9 Finally, on behalf of NRDC's hundreds

10 of thousands of members living in areas

11 adversely affected by out-of-state air

12 pollution, I urge U.S. EPA to go further in the

13 final version of the Transport Rule by requiring

14 additional reductions in pollution from

15 coal-fired power plants.

16 Given the thousands of lives at stake,

17 the millions of lives that are currently

18 impacted by poor air quality, and the coal

19 industry's long-running failure to install

20 modern pollution controls on aging, dirty coal

21 plants, EPA must not shy away from its duty to

22 give full effect to the Clean Air Act's stated

23 goal of protecting and enhancing the quality of

24 the nation's air resources and promoting the
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1 public health and welfare and the productive

2 capacity of its population.

3 I should also just note that these are

4 general comments. NRDC will be submitting much

5 more detailed written comments at a later date.

6 Thank you.

7 MR. CLARK: Thank you very much.

8 Jerry, when you start, if you could

9 spell your name for the court reporter.

10 MR. JERRY MEAD-LUCERO: Sure. My name

11 is Jerry Mead, M-e-a-d, hyphen, Lucero,

12 L-u-c-e-r-o, and I'm with the Pilsen

13 Environmental Rights and Reform Organization.

14 PERRO is our acronym, and we are here

15 to support the Transport Rule as a first step in

16 hopefully what will be a much more evolved

17 process of reducing power plant pollution.

18 You asked earlier about EJ communities

19 in the areas around these power plants. I'm

20 from one of them, so I can tell you about it.

21 I'm from the Pilsen community. Pilsen

22 is a low income or working class Latino,

23 primarily Latino community in Chicago here on

24 the southwest side.
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1 We have located right in our

2 neighborhood the Fisk power plant, literally

3 across the street from a park, down the street

4 from three schools, across the street from

5 numerous apartment buildings.

6 There's also the Crawford plant in

7 Little Village, which is a neighboring

8 neighborhood to ours. It's very similar to

9 ours, Latino population, primarily low income.

10 I think for Pilsen the last I checked

11 the median income was about 26,000 a year, so

12 we're definitely one of the lower-income

13 communities in Chicago, and all the communities

14 that surround us that are within half mile,

15 mile, mile and a half from both Fisk and

16 Crawford would be similar communities, either

17 Latino or mostly Latino, African-American,

18 mostly low income.

19 So when you talk about communities,

20 you're talking communities that I live and I

21 come from.

22 We here in Chicago have been working

23 for quite a few years, almost going on a decade

24 now, trying to reduce the pollution from the
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1 Fisk and Crawford power plants.

2 We are in the midst of a major effort

3 right now to try to pass an ordinance in Chicago

4 that would try to clean up these plants.

5 What's disturbing to us is that we

6 know for these two plants alone there's about 40

7 premature deaths a year and about 2,800 asthma

8 attacks a year from just Fisk and Crawford.

9 So it's disturbing to hear that even

10 if we were successful in passing an ordinance

11 locally here in Chicago to reduce those health

12 effects that we'd still be getting pollution

13 from nearby states, and that you're talking tens

14 of thousands when you add in all those other

15 plants.

16 I wasn't even aware until this

17 testimony of the scale of the problem.

18 If you think about it, tens of

19 thousands, I mean, you know, we talk about

20 tragedies like 9/11 or even the most recent

21 tragedy in Pakistan where they're taking deaths

22 in the thousands, we're talking about tens of

23 thousands from these power plants.

24 Obviously, unfortunately, the problem
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1 we deal with in our communities is trying to

2 explain to people that because this is a

3 cumulative effect over time, it's hard for

4 people to get a grasp of how dangerous these

5 places are.

6 We know that we're talking about tens

7 of thousands deaths. That's a huge tragedy

8 that's occurring in our country. We need to get

9 a handle on that.

10 So it's interesting, too, a few years

11 ago when we started working on this issue of

12 trying to clean up the Fisk and Crawford power

13 plants, we actually had a visitor here from

14 Canada, from a radio program in Canada that was

15 concerned about the power plant emissions from

16 our locations to them.

17 That was the first time I became aware

18 of the impact over a wide area that these

19 polluters can have.

20 So, obviously, this Transport Rule is

21 a good step in the overall process of dealing

22 with these pollution sources.

23 We are hoping to deal with them here

24 more locally. The state of Illinois is passing
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1 regulations over -- over which the time period

2 is much shorter on these, but we're, you know,

3 glad to see this is going to be tackled at the

4 interstate level as well.

5 So I appreciate you giving us the

6 opportunity to talk on this.

7 Unfortunately, communities like Pilsen

8 and Little Village rarely get their voices heard

9 on these matters.

10 Pilsen is a place that's impacted by

11 multiple pollution sources so, you know, dealing

12 with a problem like this, our number one

13 pollution problem, would be a huge step forward

14 in terms of improving the health of our

15 communities.

16 We work very closely with the Allejo

17 Medical Center which is a medical center in our

18 neighborhood which has told us that they have

19 incredibly high rates of asthma compared to

20 other parts of the state, other parts of the

21 city, so this is obviously a very big concern to

22 us.

23 Thank you for giving us an opportunity

24 to have our voices heard on this matter.
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1 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you, guys, very

2 much.

3 Anybody any questions.

4 (No response.)

5 CHAIRMAN CLARK: I think we're okay.

6 Yes, appreciate it very much.

7 Thank you.

8 Next two speakers, please, Mr. John

9 Ailey and Byron, Mr. Byron Burrows, please.

10 Mr. Ailey, you are welcome to start,

11 and if you would spell your name also, that

12 would be great.

13 MR. JOHN AILEY: Good morning.

14 My name is John Ailey, A-i-l-e-y.

15 Also use Jack.

16 I'm a resident of the Little Village

17 neighborhood in Chicago. It's the southwest

18 side section of Chicago.

19 It's a section of Chicago, as my

20 colleague from Pilsen Environmental Rights and

21 Reform Organization mentioned, primarily Latino

22 community.

23 We have been working for a very long

24 time on the issue of two coal-fired power plants
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1 in the City of Chicago.

2 I should also mention that besides

3 working with PERRO, I'm an activist with Green

4 Party.

5 Of course, my remarks should just be

6 imputed to me, if I say something that somebody

7 else may disagree with, but I believe this is

8 the consensus that the basic point is we do

9 indeed support that these rules should be

10 passed.

11 The second point that I would like to

12 emphasize is looking at your alternatives for

13 enforcing this, to me it appears that the second

14 alternative that you are proposing would be the

15 best one in terms of the environmental justice

16 standpoint.

17 Part of the issue is that in

18 particular we are very familiar with these two

19 plants. There's a huge population density in

20 the surrounding area. It's also a relatively

21 low income area.

22 If plants are allowed to trade, we're

23 afraid that what's going to happen is that these

24 two plants, which are relatively expensive to
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1 retrofit, and relatively small, the companies

2 will avoid or postpone the retrofits that are

3 needed and that our communities will continue to

4 suffer the bad effect from these plants.

5 And so, therefore, we feel that a fair

6 approach, better approach would be to look at

7 what is the population density around the

8 various plants, try to set limits prioritizing,

9 shall I say, those plants that are closest to

10 large population densities. I feel that would

11 be a fair way to do it.

12 As an electrician, well, a retired

13 electrician, I certainly realize the need for

14 electricity, and I'm not trying to say that we

15 don't need -- we need a reliable electric supply

16 in the country.

17 I feel that we need to move very

18 rapidly away from using coal. There are all

19 kinds of bad effects of coal besides the SO2 and

20 the NOx and so forth.

21 Certainly climate change is a huge

22 issue, and EPA does have the ability to regulate

23 that also, and we hope that they will take this

24 up also, but, in any case, to reiterate, yes,
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1 this rule is a good step which needs to be done.

2 I support that second alternative. I

3 think that would be the fairest way of

4 determining environmental justice to implement

5 the Rule.

6 Thank you for your attention.

7 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Absolutely. Thank

8 you very much. Mr. Burrows.

9 MR. BYRON BURROWS: Thank you.

10 I'm Byron Burrows, and I'm Manager of

11 Air Programs with Tampa Electric Company in

12 Florida.

13 Appreciate the opportunity to comment

14 on the proposed Transport Rule.

15 Tampa Electric is a midsized utility

16 that has been proactive in making emission

17 reductions, and we have a balanced fuel

18 portfolio about half coal and half natural gas.

19 We just completed a 10-year

20 $1.2 billion pollution reduction initiative, and

21 Tampa Electric generally supports EPA's

22 proposal.

23 We do have concerns with the proposed

24 method of allocation.
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1 We do support EPA's preferred

2 approach, which allows limited interstate

3 trading among power plants but assures that each

4 state will meet its pollution control

5 obligations.

6 We believe this is a reasonable

7 approach to meeting reduction goals and

8 minimizing cost increase for power unless the

9 allocations are too restrictive.

10 The first alternative,

11 intrastate trading only, is unfavorable for our

12 customers because it unnecessarily limits the

13 trading market and the ability to achieve the

14 lowest cost reductions, and would cause

15 unnecessary increases in the cost of electricity

16 at a time when we can least afford it.

17 The second alternative could be even

18 more detrimental because it further reduces

19 compliance, flexibility and ignores the highly

20 successful market-based system of emission

21 reduction.

22 This option intuitively results in

23 higher overall compliance costs without

24 guaranteeing any additional environmental
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1 benefit.

2 The proposed allocation method,

3 however, penalizes companies like Tampa Electric

4 that made early reductions to reduce emissions.

5 As I said, TEC has been a leader in

6 making emission reductions. We've made a 90

7 percent system-wide reduction in SO2 and

8 nitrogen oxides over '98 levels, yet the

9 proposal doesn't provide Tampa Electric with

10 sufficient sulfur dioxide allowances to even

11 operate within our current permit limits.

12 So I believe it's important for EPA to

13 avoid penalizing this type of early action.

14 We will propose options, some of which

15 were mentioned in EPA's preamble or EPA's

16 proposal to accomplish this in our written

17 comments.

18 Good faith efforts like Tampa

19 Electric's to reduce emissions beyond

20 requirements have been ignored by EPA in the

21 default proposal, setting a troubling precedent.

22 I've also noted some apparent errors

23 in input data used in the model, and, as

24 mentioned before, will provide comments.
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1 Given the short period of time to

2 evaluate, that's been a recurring theme I guess

3 in talking with our other -- our peers,

4 colleagues.

5 If we could have -- I know I've gotten

6 a lot of information on the website,

7 spreadsheets with maybe formulas and links.

8 It's just data in there.

9 Sometimes it's difficult and

10 time-consuming to decipher how we got those, so

11 that would be helpful, and then maybe we can get

12 with the specific people, some specific people

13 on that.

14 But we request EPA give strong

15 consideration to employing allocation methods

16 that avoid disenfranchising early action in the

17 future. Thank you.

18 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you both.

19 MR. NAPOLITANO: I just have one

20 comment.

21 Depending on when you actually checked

22 our website, we have put up something that is I

23 think along the lines of what you're interested

24 in, more details on how the application actually
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1 works, so if you've not checked in the last two

2 weeks, there is additional information up there.

3 MR. BYRON BURROWS: Thank you.

4 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Anybody else?

5 (No response.)

6 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you, guys, both

7 very much.

8 I'll call the next two speakers here

9 in a second.

10 Let me just remind anyone here that's

11 interested in speaking, feel free to sign up at

12 the desk outside.

13 The next two speakers will be Janice

14 Nolen and Art Cerullo. Please.

15 MR. ARTHUR CERULLO: Good morning.

16 I'm Arthur Cerullo. I think I'm going

17 to go before Janice this morning if I may.

18 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Absolutely.

19 MR. ARTHUR CERULLO: I'm a member of

20 the board of directors of the American Lung

21 Association.

22 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Art, can you spell

23 you name.

24 MR. ARTHUR CERULLO: C-e-r-u-l-l-o.
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1 First name is Arthur, A-r-t-h-u-r.

2 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thanks.

3 MR. ARTHUR CERULLO: I'm a member of

4 the board of directors of the American Lung

5 Association and the immediate past Speaker of

6 Our National Nationwide Assembly.

7 I'm a senior partner at Drummond &

8 Drummond in Portland, Maine, and I often commute

9 to and from work on my bicycle.

10 I have been a volunteer for the Lung

11 Association for more than 22 years, and I want

12 to thank you for the opportunity to share the

13 position of the American Lung Association on

14 EPA's proposed Clean Air Transport Rule.

15 The American Lung Association saves

16 lives through the prevention of lung disease and

17 the promotion of lung health.

18 Fighting for clean air, healthy air,

19 is central to our mission.

20 Key to that fight has been our work to

21 support stronger measures to clean up nature

22 sources of pollution, especially coal-fired

23 power plants.

24 We are pleased that the U.S.
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1 Environmental Protection Agency has moved ahead

2 to help states like Illinois fight for healthy

3 air by requiring the cleanup of pollution that

4 blows into these states from outside.

5 States can't do this on their own.

6 States need the Transport Rule to stop that

7 pollution at the state line.

8 The American Lung Association calls on

9 the EPA to not only adopt the framework of the

10 Clean Air Transport Rule but to strengthen the

11 limits on the emissions nationwide.

12 EPA needs to take the steps to provide

13 even greater protection for public health.

14 Air pollution is coming into Cook

15 today from ten different states, not just the

16 neighboring states of Indiana, Wisconsin and

17 Michigan, but states as far as away as Iowa,

18 Kentucky, Minnesota, Missouri, Ohio and even

19 Pennsylvania and West Virginia send ozone and

20 particles into Cook County.

21 This rule would require that plants in

22 31 states, including Illinois, cut the pollution

23 they send across state lines. That pollution is

24 toxic.
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1 Coal-fired power plants emit millions

2 of tons of sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide.

3 These two gasses are so dangerous that

4 on their own EPA recently strengthened the

5 limits on how much of each is safe.

6 More importantly, sulfur dioxide and

7 nitrogen dioxide are also the raw ingredients

8 that help form other, even deadlier pollutants

9 which are ozone and fine particles.

10 Nitrogen dioxide is a key component of

11 ozone smog. Ozone burns our lungs and airways

12 causing them to become inflamed and swollen.

13 Breathing ozone can cause chest pain

14 and cough, aggravate asthma and increase

15 emergency room visits and hospital admissions

16 for respiratory problems. Breathing ozone can

17 kill.

18 Sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide

19 both react to form fine particulate matter,

20 microscopic aerosols that we inhale deep into

21 our lungs.

22 Those particles can cause asthma

23 attacks, heart attacks, strokes and early death.

24 Children and teens, seniors, people
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1 with chronic lung diseases like asthma, people

2 with cardiovascular disease and diabetics face

3 greater risk from these pollutants.

4 Healthy adults who work or exercise

5 outdoors, including bicyclists like me, can

6 suffer from breathing this pollution.

7 In 2014, the Rule as proposed will

8 decrease sulfur dioxide pollution by 72 percent

9 and nitrogen oxide pollution by 52 percent.

10 Here are just a few of the ways those

11 reductions will benefit public health:

12 14,000 to 36,000 lives saved each

13 year. 23,000 heart attacks avoided each year.

14 26,000 visits or admissions to the emergency

15 room avoided each year. And children will have

16 230,000 fewer asthma attacks each year.

17 Let me emphasize. I say each year.

18 These benefits repeat over and over

19 again year after year.

20 Just taking the proposed rule as is,

21 the benefits far outweigh the costs, as EPA

22 estimates for both show.

23 By 2014, the benefits of the lives

24 saved as well as the benefits of the medical
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1 care avoided, days not missed at work and

2 school, total between 120 and $290 billion a

3 year.

4 By contrast, annual costs in 2014 will

5 be many times less. Estimated to be

6 $2.8 billion per year.

7 That makes the benefits more than 40

8 to over 100 times greater than the cost.

9 In fact, with benefit-cost ratios like

10 that, EPA can and should require even more

11 reductions.

12 EPA should set a much tighter national

13 limit on sulfur dioxide and nitrogen dioxide

14 emissions.

15 We call on EPA to set a nationwide

16 limit on sulfur dioxide equivalent to

17 1.75 million tons by 2014.

18 Nitrogen oxide limits need to be

19 lowered to 900,000 tons by 2014.

20 The control technology is widely

21 available and effective. The investment in

22 cleaning up even more means that we would see

23 greater benefits including more lives saved each

24 year.
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1 We fully expect to hear dire

2 predictions about the economic impact of this

3 rule on the nation.

4 Those come up every time we try to

5 clean up pollution. They come up despite

6 40 years evidence to the contrary.

7 The Clean Air Act has been in place

8 since 1970, and we have cut pollution and yet

9 grown our population and our economy since then.

10 Too often, however, the critics fail

11 to mention that pollution kills people, that

12 tens of thousands of lives are lost each year,

13 year after year.

14 We at the American Lung Association

15 call on the EPA to take this opportunity to do

16 more to protect the air we breath and the lives

17 of our families and friends.

18 Thank you for your attention.

19 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you.

20 MS. JANICE NOLEN: Good morning. Nice

21 to see you all.

22 My name is Janice Nolen. That's

23 J-a-n-i-c-e, N-o-l-e-n, and I'm Assistant Vice

24 President for National Policy and Advocacy with
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1 the American Lung Association.

2 Thank you for the opportunity to

3 comment this morning.

4 One of our dedicated volunteers, Art

5 Cerullo, has presented an overview on the key

6 issues on behalf of our board.

7 The American Lung Association will be

8 providing extensive comment on the Rule in

9 writing, so today I'm going to just emphasize a

10 few points.

11 First, we are pleased with EPA's

12 decision to create a framework for setting

13 emissions reductions under the "good neighbor"

14 provisions of the Clean Air Act.

15 Such a framework allows EPA to follow

16 a strong logical pathway forward.

17 Under this framework, EPA assesses in

18 detail the contribution from sources in each

19 upwind state to the pollution levels in downwind

20 states.

21 Such a careful analysis provides

22 strong evidence of pollution from these 31

23 states and the District of Columbia burdens

24 people living in these nonattainment and
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1 maintenance areas.

2 Like many others, I was surprised by

3 how far these plumes flow.

4 We often think that winds only move

5 west to east, so the information that pollution

6 from my home state of Tennessee adds to the

7 burden here in Illinois is compelling evidence

8 that we're all in this together.

9 EPA recognized that the national air

10 quality standards evolve, changing as our

11 scientific knowledge grows.

12 Growing research teaches us more

13 specifics about the kinds of pollutants, their

14 levels and the exposure patterns that can harm

15 us.

16 We need to be able to put that new

17 information into a real-world setting as soon as

18 possible, without having to carry out extended

19 delays sorting through our national toolbox to

20 figure out the best ways to fix the exhaust

21 pipe.

22 EPA will need to move this framework

23 forward soon. The standards that form the basis

24 for these calculations are sadly out of date.
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1 In particular, the 1997 standard that

2 EPA used is now 13 years old, and was superceded

3 by a tighter standard than 75 parts per billion.

4 Now that 75 parts per billion

5 standard, also widely recognized as inadequate,

6 is being reconsidered and should be replaced by

7 the standard that will be coming out August

8 31st.

9 The 75-parts-per-billion standard

10 which -- the 2006 PM 2.5 standards, which

11 includes the ancient and woefully inadequate

12 15-parts-per-million standard for particles are

13 also under review with proposals scheduled to

14 come out soon.

15 So why not use, for example, the

16 75-parts-per-billion level for ozone in your

17 calculation.

18 I suspect the simple answer is that

19 there are no nonattainment areas or maintenance

20 areas for that 75-parts-per-billion standard

21 established.

22 However, the areas still in

23 nonattainment for the 84 parts-per-billion

24 standard are certainly in nonattainment for that
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1 75-parts-per-billion level, and many areas in

2 maintenance for 84 parts per billion also

3 violate the 75 parts per billion.

4 We know adverse health effects occur

5 at levels below 75 parts per billion.

6 Should EPA at least not include that

7 level in the assessment for a federal

8 implementation plan.

9 In fact, EPA has design values and

10 monitoring data for all counties with ozone

11 monitors.

12 You can readily tell which counties

13 failed to meet the 75-parts-per-billion level

14 using that data.

15 EPA could assess the burden upwind

16 states are placing on these downwind states just

17 using the counties with monitors as reference

18 points.

19 As it is, the Clean Air Transport Rule

20 becomes weaker than is needed to address the

21 significant interstate transport of ozone based

22 on the 75-parts-per-billion standard.

23 Yet this rule is critical to helping

24 states to protect public health.
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1 We urge you today therefore to set

2 stronger caps.

3 We urge that the limits should be

4 900,000 tons of nitrogen dioxide and

5 1.75 million tons of sulfur dioxide by 2014.

6 This tool, the Clean Air Transport

7 Rule, cuts some of the most widespread and

8 dangerous pollutants in our nation.

9 As proposed this rule will save

10 between 14,000 and 36,000 lives a year.

11 This Transport Rule truly helps us to

12 become better neighbors, but we still need to

13 work hard to become good neighbors.

14 Thank you.

15 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you both very

16 much. Any questions?

17 (No response.)

18 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Appreciate it very

19 much.

20 We have one more speaker that is here

21 as I understand, Mr. Richard Stuckey.

22 Can we just ask is there anyone else

23 in the room that is interested in speaking that

24 hasn't signed up.
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1 MR. RICHARD STUCKEY: Good morning.

2 My name is Richard Stuckey. That's

3 S-t-u-c-k-e-y.

4 Than you for letting me address you

5 this morning.

6 I'd like to thank the Administration

7 and commend the EPA for taking action to tackle

8 the serious impacts of transportation pollution

9 from coal-fired power plant that have been

10 largely ignored for decades and cannot be dealt

11 with by local regulations.

12 Just for the record I'm a resident of

13 Chicago and have two daughters, both whom suffer

14 to some extent from respiratory problems, which

15 we largely attribute to pollution from the

16 coal-fired power plants in Chicago.

17 I'm a member of the Sierra Club,

18 Greenpeace, NRDC and various other environmental

19 organizations who will be addressing you today,

20 and I thoroughly support the presentation you'll

21 hear from the organizations and their members

22 who are speaking individually.

23 I am speaking as a private citizen

24 today.
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1 I'd like to thank you for the

2 excellent research that's been done into the

3 costs and the benefits for implementing the

4 proposed changes, particularly the power plant

5 presentation that you made available to us was

6 excellent in outlining the very real dangers

7 resulting to the health of the nation from

8 unchecked pollution that travels across

9 boundaries, and the fact of the benefits from

10 reducing the pollution or the cost of doing so,

11 and today you heard from many organizations who

12 said you have missed many of the benefits, and

13 the benefits in fact are significantly larger.

14 This alone should make it obvious that

15 the changes proposed should be implemented

16 vigorously in as short a possible timeframe as

17 you can provide.

18 I encourage you to implement the

19 tightest rules that you possibly can.

20 We have heard from a number of people

21 who believe the rules that are proposed aren't

22 as tight as they should be.

23 And, also, the most aggressive

24 schedule, which I think you've already heard,
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1 attempts to procrastinate and to delay the

2 schedule. I think that is the wrong thing to

3 do. We need to do this as fast as possible

4 because the benefits are so huge and the

5 population is growing older and much more

6 susceptible to the dangers of pollution than it

7 has been in the past.

8 The costs are going up every day we

9 delay and procrastinate in implementing these

10 rules. And, unfortunately, the power industry,

11 with maybe some exceptions you heard today, has

12 a long track record of procrastination and

13 avoiding implementation of these Clean Air laws.

14 I think it's particularly important in

15 writing your rules that we deal with the worst

16 offenders.

17 We have a couple of those things in

18 the Fisk and Crawford power plants here, truly

19 terrible polluters, and they have avoided their

20 responsibilities for years to clean up their

21 act, and we should make sure that the rules do

22 not allow them to evade their responsibilities

23 and to continue to pollute by buying rights

24 elsewhere. This is not the right solution to
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1 addressing the problems of the local residents

2 as you've heard.

3 Implementation of the proposals you

4 have made have a major benefit that is not

5 mentioned.

6 The argument that the power industry

7 has benefitted greatly from the ability -- to

8 exploiting the ability under existing law to

9 shift the responsibility, the cost of getting

10 power to people who don't use that power.

11 There's a whole model in

12 transportation of pollution which proves that

13 many people are paying the costs of power but

14 not getting the benefits from it.

15 The charts show that, and so we would

16 like to make sure that people who benefit from

17 the power pay for the full costs, the full cost

18 of procuring that power, not shift them on to

19 populations.

20 You might argue for just a little

21 cooperation they're paying for their power one

22 way or another, but it's very clear the costs

23 are being shifted to people who have no benefit

24 from the power.
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1 So if we were able to do this, the

2 cost of electricity would undoubtedly go up

3 slightly, it is only slightly, but this would

4 give a better chance to alternative sources of

5 power.

6 We radically need to improve renewable

7 sources of power. We have a better chance of

8 competing if the current producers who are using

9 dirty technology are paying the full costs of

10 what they're doing.

11 Even with the cuts proposed in

12 pollution, there will still be a large amount of

13 pollution going on, and so we encourage you to

14 make the rules as tight as you possibly can.

15 I think that's enough for today.

16 Thank you very much.

17 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. Thank you very

18 much, Mr. Stuckey.

19 Any questions.

20 (No response.)

21 CHAIRMAN CLARK: I guess not. Thanks

22 very much.

23 MR. RICHARD STUCKEY: Thank you.

24 CHAIRMAN CLARK: As I am signalled, we
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1 have no more speakers for right now, so what I'm

2 going to do is suspend the hearing for a few

3 minutes until other speakers arrive.

4 We will stay here, and we will stay,

5 like I said, until 8 o'clock or beyond if we

6 need to, but, in the meantime, the hearing will

7 be suspended for now. Thank you.

8 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had

9 from 10:10 a.m. to

10 10:21 a.m.)

11 CHAIRMAN CLARK: We have a 5-minute

12 limit, but we are being flexible needless to

13 say.

14 The next two speakers will be Laura

15 Knezevic and Sarah Wochos.

16 MS. LAURA KNEZEVIC: My last name is

17 spelled K-n-e-z-e-v-i-c, Knezevic.

18 I'm from the Illinois Student

19 Environmental Coalition, and we represent

20 students on over 40 college campuses across the

21 state.

22 I'm basically here to represent their

23 concerns about the environment.

24 Air pollution, air quality is one of
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1 their major concerns, especially pollution from

2 our power plants.

3 This rule is an extremely important

4 step in not only reducing the pollution from our

5 power generation, but, really, taking

6 significant steps to solve some of the things

7 that contribute to health problems from these

8 pollutants.

9 Our students that we work with, our

10 members know that this is a national problem,

11 that power generated in one state, the pollution

12 doesn't just stay there, it moves to other

13 states, and our students are concerned about

14 that pollution moving and affecting the areas

15 that don't generate this power.

16 They are also extremely concerned

17 about the lifelong health effects. These are

18 students that are working towards a generation

19 of lowering air pollution, and they're very

20 serious about taking steps to reduce that.

21 They also want to see economic

22 benefits from this rule. The information that

23 has been provided by this rule shows very clear

24 economic benefit, that whatever costs that would
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1 have to be incurred to put in these pollution

2 controls are far outweighed by the benefits.

3 We'd also like to ask the EPA take the

4 most stringent steps in reducing air pollution,

5 and this isn't really a time for us sort of

6 half-hearted measures. That is a long overdue

7 step to reduce air pollution. Thank you.

8 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you.

9 MS. SARAH WOCHOS: Sarah Wochos. Last

10 name is spelled W-o-c-h-o-s.

11 I am from the Environmental Law &

12 Policy Center, and I probably am largely going

13 to reiterate what other people have already

14 said.

15 The LPC is supportive of the concept

16 of the Clean Air Interstate Rule, and we support

17 making it even stronger.

18 Therefore, we support the EPA in its

19 rule-making and encourage EPA to go even

20 further.

21 The LPC works in the midwest states to

22 help protect the environment. The various

23 states this rule intends to help are those that

24 we are working hard to protect.
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1 But our concern for the health and

2 welfare of our country does not end at the Ohio

3 state border.

4 Though the sources may be stationary,

5 we have long known that the emissions from these

6 sources are not.

7 The power transfer in the midwest

8 adversely affects other midwestern states and

9 states further east, and it is our moral

10 obligation to mitigate that impact as much as

11 humanly possible.

12 We've made admirable pollution

13 reductions since the Clean Air Act was first

14 passed in 1970, but we have a long way to go,

15 and this rule is an important first step.

16 Targeting power plants is the right

17 way to go.

18 In 2008, as we know, power plants were

19 responsible for 66 percent of sulfur dioxide

20 emissions and 19 percent of nitrogen oxide

21 emissions.

22 The benefits of implementation of this

23 rule are astounding for 9 million children in

24 the United States who suffer from asthma.
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1 In Chicago the incidence of asthma is

2 twice that in other areas.

3 The quality-of-life increase in

4 avoiding these hospitalizations should be enough

5 to convince us, but if that is not enough, the

6 economic benefits certainly will.

7 With the implementation of this rule,

8 we will avoid thousands of premature deaths and

9 thousands of hospitalizations.

10 The number of missed workdays and

11 schooldays will decrease, and, as a result,

12 collectively our society will save billions of

13 dollars in avoided healthcare costs, and we will

14 gain billions of dollars in increased

15 productivity.

16 So this rule is an important first

17 step.

18 It includes states that were not

19 originally subject to the Clean Air State Rule,

20 and it will overall increase the use of

21 emission-control technologies.

22 We recognize EPA's struggle to

23 maintain some sort of market-based approach to

24 emission reduction and yet still guarantee
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1 overall reductions.

2 How about we support alternative

3 options too, which would place specific limits

4 at each plant, therefore guaranteeing state

5 emission reductions.

6 We also urge EPA to go even further.

7 The Rule seems to lessen the pollution-control

8 obligations of several states in the midwest as

9 compared CAIR.

10 Iowa, Missouri and Wisconsin will have

11 sulfur dioxide and annual nitrogen oxide

12 reductions, not seasonal reductions, and this

13 seems counterintuitive.

14 On a personal note, I grew up in

15 Milwaukee, and I now live in Chicago.

16 By EPA's own analysis, both Milwaukee

17 and Cook County will be required to have air

18 quality standards in 2014 even with this rule in

19 place.

20 We don't know if that will come to

21 fruition, but I want us to do everything in our

22 power to ensure that it doesn't reduce pollution

23 limits. Thanks.

24 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. Thank you,
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1 both very much.

2 Any questions.

3 (No response.)

4 CHAIRMAN CLARK: I have actually one

5 question for Laura, which is the organization

6 you represent, the Illinois Junior Environmental

7 Coalition --

8 MS. LAURA KNEZEVIC: Illinois Students

9 Environmental Coalition.

10 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Sorry. My mistake.

11 Could you just talk a little bit about

12 that group, about the organization.

13 MS. LAURA KNEZEVIC: Yes.

14 We work with students on college

15 campuses on anything environmentally based, and

16 we bring them together to work on larger

17 environmental issues.

18 We take sort of an issue per semester

19 and organize initiatives around it, and they

20 range from anything like global warming to

21 reducing our usage of Styrofoam, and upcoming we

22 are going to be talking about clean water and

23 promoting bicycle usage.

24 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. Great. Thank
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1 you very much. Thank you both.

2 Next two speakers, please, Verena Owen

3 and Rose Gomez, please.

4 MS. VERENA OWEN: Good morning.

5 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Spell your name for

6 the court reporter.

7 MS. VERENA OWEN: I will.

8 My name is Verena Owen. That's

9 V-e-r-e-n-a, and Owen, O-w-e-n.

10 First of all, thank you for holding

11 this hearing.

12 I am a volunteer leader in the Sierra

13 Club.

14 Sierra Club is the largest and oldest

15 environmental organization in the United States.

16 We have 1.3 million members and supporters.

17 I chair the Sierra Club's National

18 Campaign. The campaign is designed to

19 drastically reduce carbon dioxide emissions and

20 other pollutants from coal-fired power plants.

21 The campaign aims to move our economy

22 towards a clean future by stopping new

23 coal-fired power plants, phasing out existing

24 plants, and keeping the massive U.S. coal
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1 reserves in the ground and out of our

2 international markets.

3 Over the last several years, I've had

4 the privilege to work with a great number of

5 Sierra activists all over the United States.

6 I've heard many compelling personal

7 stories about what made them coal activists in

8 the first place and what keeps them going and

9 what makes them submit yet another comment on

10 the Rule and show up at a hearing.

11 I wish I could share all those stories

12 with you because they paint a very, very

13 compelling picture, but I can't, so I'll share

14 my story very briefly with you today. It is not

15 that unusual.

16 I live in Winthrop Harbor, Illinois.

17 I forgive you if you don't know where that is.

18 That is the northeast corner of the state.

19 There are three large coal-fired power

20 plants within a 25-mile radius, Waukegan,

21 Illinois, Pleasant Prairie and Oak Creek in

22 Wisconsin.

23 It is an area with bad air quality

24 which my husband and I didn't know when we and
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1 our children moved into the area in the 80s, not

2 that we really had a chance to move anywhere

3 else. Due to the jobs we didn't have a choice

4 in that.

5 When I moved there, I knew nobody. I

6 met my first new friend in the back row of an

7 aerobics class. That was the last aerobics

8 class either us ever took, but we spent a lot of

9 good times together in lots of other places.

10 At first glance, we probably didn't

11 seem look likely friends. She was a

12 sophisticated professional African-American

13 woman, and I was that wild-eyed German tree

14 hugger, but we were truly soul sisters.

15 Our kids grew up the same age, and we

16 had eight little boys amongst us, and you can

17 imagine what those days were like.

18 Shortly after her last baby was born,

19 she was diagnosed with a serious lung ailment.

20 Suddenly air quality became

21 overwhelmingly important for me. I spent a lot

22 of time on the phone with her, and I could

23 always tell when the air was bad.

24 She couldn't finish a sentence, she
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1 couldn't breathe. She could hardly talk and

2 went to the hospital, and I was very worried.

3 She didn't live long enough to see her

4 oldest son graduate from high school.

5 EPA projects that without this "good

6 neighbor" rule air pollution from power plants

7 would result in 14 to 36,000 additional deaths.

8 We don't need to know any more. My

9 friend was one of those who suffered with the

10 hospital admissions, the emergency room visits,

11 and premature death static.

12 This has to end now.

13 Savings in health costs are estimated

14 to be between 100 to $250 billion.

15 The cost for implementing is a mere

16 fraction of the savings. Every dollar that is

17 spent on cleaning up, retiring, repowering or

18 replacing coal plants has a direct benefit for

19 human health.

20 Coal plants emit millions of tons of

21 air pollutants each year that cause serious

22 health problems.

23 The pollution does not stop at the

24 state line. This is a national problem that
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1 needs national attention.

2 It is time that coal plants in 31

3 states clean up their act. It is the right

4 thing to do. It is the necessary thing to do.

5 It will protect the health and welfare of

6 millions of people, and there's a cost-effective

7 way to achieve true pollution reduction.

8 As I see it, that's

9 win-win-win-win-win.

10 I am grateful that the EPA is working

11 on enforcing clean air designed to end

12 regulatory enforcement too long exploited by big

13 coal.

14 After eight years of Bush

15 administration backsliding in action, the

16 safeguards seem to put public welfare back on

17 top of the priority list. Bravo.

18 The Clear Air Transport Rule is one of

19 those safeguards. I am very much in support of

20 it.

21 Sierra Club will submit formal

22 comments, and I'm sure that many, many, many of

23 my fellow activists, like Rose here, will also

24 submit comments in support of this rule, and I
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1 think for your time.

2 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much

3 for your comments. Ms. Gomez.

4 MS. ROSE GOMEZ: Yes, hello. My name

5 is Rose. The last name is Gomez, G-o-m-e-z, and

6 I'm here because first and foremost I am a

7 mother, and I have an investment in the future

8 which is represented by my son, which my son is

9 going to either benefit or going to pay a very

10 high cost for the actions that we take or do not

11 take today.

12 And we are held accountable for what

13 we will do or won't do because we have the

14 knowledge to act today. Not years from now.

15 There are so many benefits that we

16 would gain as a result of moving forward with

17 the correct steps that are available for us to

18 do, and they include cleaning up the air that we

19 breath every day, not only myself, everybody in

20 this room, your children and your children's

21 children also breathe.

22 And that is why I'm here. It's

23 because my son is what drives me because I think

24 about his future.
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1 I think about what I did during my

2 lifetime, whether I did anything or I sat on the

3 sidelines and did nothing as far as speaking up

4 or acted as far as making the changes that

5 were possible to be taken to date.

6 And there is the technology for us,

7 like I said, to move forward.

8 The future, the jobs that are

9 available, there are so many opportunities for

10 better jobs, for jobs that represent the future

11 for our children, and not jobs that are going to

12 continue to dirty the air that we will breathe

13 and pay the high consequences for.

14 This is of course something that needs

15 to happen as quickly as possible, and 2012, in

16 no means, is very quickly by any standard as far

17 as I'm concerned, and as far as 2014, when

18 emissions would be reduced by 71 percent, that's

19 fine. The more the better.

20 Why couldn't it be higher? The amount

21 of benefits, like I said, far outweigh the

22 costs.

23 For example, 14,000 to 36,000

24 premature deaths, 21,000 cases of bronchitis.
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1 And we can go on, 23,000 nonfatal

2 heart attacks, 26,000 hospital and emergency

3 room visits.

4 Besides the benefits that we would

5 incur, it's the right thing to do, and there is

6 no cost that could make up the possibility of

7 not worrying about having to breathe dirty air.

8 There is nothing that surpasses the

9 benefits of being able to breathe clean air.

10 I would give all my possessions if I

11 knew that my son would have a future to breathe

12 cleaner air. I would give up everything, the

13 car I drive, all my wealth, anything, because

14 there's no amount of money that equals having to

15 worry about whether the quality of air is good

16 enough for my son or your children or your

17 children's children and so on.

18 So the time to act is today, not

19 tomorrow.

20 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you both very

21 much. Anyone have any questions?

22 (No response.)

23 CHAIRMAN CLARK: I guess not. Thank

24 you both. Appreciate it.
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1 Okay. It looks like we are going to

2 suspend the hearing here for a bit more until

3 additional witnesses come, so we will stay here

4 and take a break. In the meantime we're

5 suspended.

6 (WHEREUPON, a recess was

7 had from 10:39 a.m. to

8 11:03 a.m.)

9 CHAIRMAN CLARK: We have a speaker,

10 Mr. Daniel DiMeo.

11 Is there anyone else in the room

12 interested in speaking?

13 (No response.)

14 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Go ahead and bring

15 Dan up.

16 Dan, if you could spell your name for

17 the court reporter, that would be great.

18 MR. DANIEL DiMEO: Sure. Daniel

19 DiMeo, D-i-M-e-o.

20 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Great. Thanks.

21 MR. DANIEL DiMEO: Thank you. My name

22 is Dan DiMeo.

23 I'm a student currently enrolled in

24 college at Roosevelt University, graduate of
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1 Knox College.

2 I believe you've all read the EPA

3 reports, as I have, that show ensuring that

4 states need clean air pollution limits is almost

5 -- the cost is almost insignificant relative to

6 the expected benefits.

7 Even in financial calculations it's 50

8 times benefits over the cost.

9 And I found it interesting to note

10 that even the expected gains in visibility in

11 national parks and wilderness areas alone is

12 expected to be greater than the cost to power

13 plants to cap SO2 and nitrogen oxide pollution,

14 so even if just for the view if you wanted to

15 clean the air, it would be financially

16 beneficial to do so.

17 And as far as EPA's preferred approach

18 to the trading of pollution limits, it's my

19 vision that the more trading that's allowed

20 generally the less pollution control you can

21 expect, and when the costs are, again, shown to

22 be so significantly less than the benefits

23 overall, I believe that the best option, like

24 the EPA's second or third alternative,
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1 especially in terms of eliminating interstate

2 trade, it's very easy for companies to see those

3 pollution limits as more allowances that they

4 have, and that it's a budget that they must

5 spend as much of as possible in order to cut

6 down the cost.

7 And so we need to make sure that those

8 budgets are as low as possible for the sake of

9 the rest of us as it were.

10 Again, we know that their costs are

11 significantly less than public health benefits,

12 and even, again, even benefits in terms of being

13 able to see, so that is -- I made the point.

14 Again, I would like to say that I

15 believe it's a great step towards achieving the

16 goal of the Clean Air Act, and I hope it is one

17 of many steps in this direction.

18 Thank you very much.

19 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much.

20 Thanks for taking the time. We appreciate it.

21 With that, I guess we will suspend

22 again until more speakers arrive. Thank you.

23 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had

24 from 11:07 a.m. to
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1 11:09 a.m.)

2 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. We have

3 another speaker, Mr. Richard Trzupek.

4 Richard, if you could spell your name

5 for the court reporter, that would be great.

6 MR. RICHARD TRZUPEK: The name is

7 spelled T, as in Tom, R, Z as in zebra, U, P as

8 in Peter, E, K.

9 I'm a consultant on the industry side

10 for a company called Mostardi Platt

11 Environmental.

12 We do quite a bit of work in the power

13 industry, and it includes a lot of the biomass

14 projects that are going on today.

15 I have not read the Rule yet. I'm

16 going to be, but going back to the original CAIR

17 rule, in the applicability section there was

18 something I think the Agency did not intend, to

19 bring a lot of new biomass projects coming on

20 line into the CAIR rule, but it unintentionally

21 did, because of the fossil fuel provision that

22 said if you ever use any fossil fuel...

23 A lot of these biomass projects do use

24 natural gas for startup, and startup alone for
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1 load balancing, but it's a very small percentage

2 of the actual heat input into the biomass

3 projects.

4 If that same language is contained in

5 the new Transport Rule, it might be beneficial

6 to encourage biomass to take a look at that

7 language and maybe come up with some de minimis

8 fossil fuel use, if used for startup and load

9 balancing only, and that will certainly help

10 encourage the biomass industry without I think

11 sacrificing air quality.

12 So that was my only comment. I know

13 that was troubling to a lot of biomass people

14 originally, and perhaps we're looking at it

15 through the Agency.

16 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. Great. Thank

17 you.

18 MR. NAPOLITANO: Thank you.

19 The original actually CAIR provision,

20 which was later corrected, we carried forward

21 actually here, so I think we have taken care of

22 the problem, but please do look at the preamble

23 and offer us comments if we haven't sufficiently

24 addressed it.
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1 MR. RICHARD TRZUPEK: Okay. That's

2 great.

3 MR. SMITH: I think too at the very

4 beginning of the preamble I think we have --

5 because there's so much regulatory language.

6 You can see in the very beginning of

7 the preamble we talk about the sections which

8 describe applicability.

9 I think there's a citation early in

10 the preamble, so, hopefully, you can find that

11 easily.

12 MR. RICHARD TRZUPEK: Okay. That

13 would be great and that will be my reading for

14 the weekend.

15 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Or the week.

16 Thank you. And it looks like we're

17 going to suspend again for a few minutes.

18 Thanks.

19 (WHEREUPON, a recess was

20 had from 11:12 a.m. to

21 12:17 p.m.)

22 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Mr. Schraufnagel, can

23 you spell you name.

24 PROFESSOR DEAN SCHRAUFNAGEL: My name
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1 is Dean Schraufnagel, S-c-h-r-a-u-f-n-a-g-e-l.

2 I am a professor of medicine and

3 pathology at the University of Illinois. I've

4 been on the board of directors of the National

5 American Lung Association until 2006.

6 I am currently the president of the

7 American Thoracic Society, and I'm the Vice

8 President of the International Union Against

9 Tuberculosis, which is the international

10 equivalent of the lung association.

11 I have edited a book, which has just

12 come out a few days ago, and I have a copy for

13 you. It's called "Breathing in America," and it

14 discusses about common diseases and what we need

15 to overcome them.

16 I'm a pulmonologist physician. I

17 specialize in respiratory disease. I see

18 patients regularly.

19 And though officially I'm speaking on

20 behalf of the American Lung Association of

21 Illinois, in reality I'm speaking on behalf of

22 my patients, and the ones who have difficulty

23 breathing.

24 I've testified before an EPA Panel on
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1 the ozone, and I'm very pleased that those

2 stricter rules were adopted.

3 I actually was fortunate enough to

4 talk to the EPA administrator through the

5 Thoracic Society when we met in Washington maybe

6 about a month ago.

7 I do think though that we need more --

8 I'm very happy with the ozone. I think we would

9 need more to reduce fine particulates, and the

10 oxides of nitrogen in the air.

11 I could talk about my patients. In

12 fact, that's what the Lung Association said,

13 "Well, just tell him about how your patients

14 have difficult days."

15 And I said, "Well, that's not

16 difficult," because many of them have bad days

17 where they can't breathe, and they say, "Well, I

18 think it's the humidity" or "I think it's the

19 --" sometimes the temperature.

20 Sometimes it's too cold, and sometimes

21 it's too hot. Sometimes it doesn't really seem

22 to matter, but it's really usually the fine

23 particulates, but it's the air pollution.

24 And I could talk about emergency room
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1 visits, lung disease, several other diseases,

2 and death that tracks air pollution,

3 particularly the fine particulates, and, as you

4 know, there's a lot of new data coming out, how

5 these fine particles are absorbed through the

6 blood and affects cardiac disease, even fetal

7 health.

8 I could explain some of these

9 pathophysiology mechanisms, but how the lung

10 defends itself against the lung, how mucus traps

11 noxious particles, how immuno cells seek to

12 destroy them, but for most of the time and for

13 most of us the defense systems works well, at

14 least for now, but fine particles can slip

15 through this membrane to cause disease in other

16 organs.

17 I can say how this silent stalker even

18 affects the unborn, but today we are here to

19 address the Clean Air Transport Rule, polluted

20 air going from one place to the other.

21 If we recall our basic physics, two

22 solid objects placed on a table stay put, but

23 when we put milk into our tea, it takes only a

24 little while for the two liquids to mix, and, if
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1 we stir that, even less.

2 Gas mixes many times faster and more

3 completely than liquids, and its molecules are

4 constantly moving at high speeds, making it

5 super-stirred, if you will.

6 Air is a mixture of gasses, and yet

7 the atmosphere contains precisely 20.9 percent

8 oxygen everywhere, even at Mount Everest.

9 Even though we can separate oxygen

10 from nitrogen relatively easy as we do with our

11 air concentrators we use for patients, when we

12 advocated to outlaw smoking in public places, we

13 argued that allowing smoking in one part of an

14 airplane or a restaurant and not allowing it in

15 another part is like having one part of a public

16 swimming pool the urinating part and the other

17 the nonurinating part.

18 Now, as bizarre as that sounds, it's

19 actually even more ridiculous to think of clean

20 air, a clean air standard in one state and

21 allowing an adjacent state to pollute. Because

22 we all breathe the same air.

23 That is why the American Lung

24 Association urges the Environmental Protection
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1 Agency to adopt the Clean Air Transport Rule.

2 We want the air coming across our

3 state line not to add to the burden of

4 pollutants that we already have here in

5 Illinois.

6 We urge EPA to quickly move to adopt

7 and put in place this important tool for our

8 air.

9 Controlling air pollution at its

10 source will promote lung health now and in the

11 future.

12 I rely on EPA to protect my patients

13 to improve their lives and even to save them.

14 Thank you.

15 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much.

16 Anyone have any questions?

17 (No response.)

18 CHAIRMAN CLARK: We very much

19 appreciate your testimony. Thank you.

20 PROFESSOR DEAN SCHRAUFNAGEL: Are you

21 interested in one of these?

22 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Absolutely. Thank

23 you.

24 (Copies of "Breathing in
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1 America: Diseases, Progress,

2 and Hope, edited by Dean E.

3 Schraufnagel, MD, and

4 distributed by the American

5 Thoracic Society was

6 tendered to the Panel.)

7 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had

8 from 12:23 p.m. to

9 2:08 p.m.)

10 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. If we could go

11 ahead and reconvene here.

12 For this afternoon we have a

13 relatively small group, so I won't go through my

14 entire opening statement, but we are here to

15 take your public comments on our Transport Rule,

16 proposed rule that focuses on getting reductions

17 of air pollutants, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen

18 oxide across 31 states and the northeastern

19 United States.

20 And this is the first of three

21 hearings that we are holding. We have a hearing

22 next week on the 26th in Philadelphia and one on

23 September the 1st in Atlanta, and we are very

24 much interested in your comments, really very
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1 much appreciate all of you coming and taking

2 your time out of your schedules, and sounds like

3 all of you have had some fairly lengthy drives

4 to get here, so thank you very much for taking

5 the time.

6 This rule, as you may know, will

7 achieve some significant reductions of air

8 pollutants, and they will be achieved very

9 quickly in regulatory terms, by 2012.

10 Then one year after the Rule is

11 finalized a set of emission reductions will be

12 locked in.

13 By 2014, this rule and other state and

14 EPA actions will reduce power plant emissions of

15 sulfur dioxide by 71 percent over 2005 levels

16 and nitrogen oxide levels by 52 percent.

17 Our statement is available outside.

18 You can see the details, but the benefits of the

19 Rule greatly exceed the cost, and by a fairly

20 large order.

21 The Rule will help all but a very few

22 areas in the eastern part of the country meet

23 the 1997 ozone standards and fine particle

24 standards.
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1 We're proposing an approach for

2 reducing sulfur and nitrogen in states that are

3 covered by this rule.

4 Our preferred approach is to set

5 limits or budget for each of the 31 states and

6 the District of Columbia, and this approach

7 would allow limited interstate trading among

8 power plants to be sure that each one of the

9 states meets its pollution control obligations.

10 We have two alternatives, and the

11 first of the two alternatives to be proposed,

12 one would set a pollution limit or budget for

13 each state, and that option would allow trading,

14 but only among power plants within a state.

15 And the second alternative is

16 proposing to set a pollution limit for each

17 state and specify the allowable emission limits

18 for each power plant. It would allow some

19 averaging.

20 This proposed rule would replace the

21 EPA's 2005 Clean Air Interstate Rule or CAIR as

22 we sometimes call it.

23 We lost that ultimately in a

24 December 2008 court decision which kept the
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1 requirements of that rule in place temporarily

2 but directed us to issue a new rule to implement

3 the Clean Air Act requirements that deal with

4 this long-range transport of pollution across

5 state boundaries, so this action is to respond

6 to the Court's concerns.

7 The way we're running this is those of

8 you that are here, I'm going to bring you up two

9 at a time, and there's a timer that will be set.

10 We're not holding people very tightly

11 to this because we really don't have as many

12 people, we are not jammed here, but basically

13 the lights are on. You'll have a green light

14 that will be on for 4 minutes. Then after

15 4 minutes a yellow light comes which lets you

16 know you're getting close to the 5-minute limit.

17 At 5 minutes a red light flashes. If

18 you could start concluding at that point, that

19 would be useful.

20 Again, I hope we are not going to cut

21 anybody off at this point or anything like that

22 essentially, but we'd appreciate it if you could

23 start concluding at that point.

24 Let's see if there's anything I wanted
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1 to mention.

2 As I said this morning, the most

3 important person in the room is Cynthia, who is

4 the court reporter.

5 She does the transcript that's being

6 taken of all the comments here, and we will

7 consider all of your comments in making our

8 final decision on this rule.

9 If someone has a written statement,

10 comments that you'd like to leave with us, feel

11 free to do that.

12 There's also where you can submit

13 written comments beyond anything that you say

14 orally today, and there's some information out

15 front to submit those written comments beyond

16 that.

17 I will quickly introduce our Panel

18 here so you know who you're talking to.

19 My name is Jeff Clark. I'm an

20 associate director from EPA's Office of Air

21 Quality Planning and Standards in Research

22 Triangle Park, North Carolina.

23 Doug Aburano is from our Chicago

24 regional office. He's one of our senior
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1 managers in the Air program.

2 This is Sam Napolitano. Sam is the

3 head of Clean Air Markets Division for EPA in

4 Washington, D.C.

5 This is Sonja Rodman, who is one of

6 our top attorneys from Washington as well, and

7 then Tim Smith, who is one of the senior authors

8 of this Rule, this proposed rule as well. He's

9 also in my office in Research Triangle Park,

10 Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards.

11 So that's who we are, and we could

12 just go ahead and start up.

13 I'll call up Jim Hodina and Joyce

14 Harant.

15 And what I'd like you guys to do, if

16 you don't mind, is if you could stay up there

17 until both of you have finished your statements,

18 and then we may have a question or two or

19 comment, and then we'll go into additional

20 speakers.

21 So with that, Jim, if you'd like to

22 start.

23 MR. JAMES HODINA: Thank you. Good

24 afternoon.
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1 My name is James Hodina, and I am the

2 Air Pollution Control Officer for Linn County,

3 Iowa, as well as the Emissions and Modeling

4 Community Co-Chair and Board Member of NACAA,

5 the National Association of Clean Air Agencies.

6 Thank you for the opportunity to

7 testify today on EPA's Transport Rule proposal.

8 I'm here to present the views of

9 NACAA, which is the Association of Air Pollution

10 Control Agencies in 52 states and territories

11 and over 165 major metropolitan areas across the

12 country.

13 Nitrogen oxide and sulfur dioxide

14 emissions contribute to fine particulate matter

15 and ozone pollution which cause significant

16 public health problems, including premature

17 deaths, infant mortality, nonfatal heart

18 attacks, hospital admissions for respiratory and

19 cardiovascular issues and emergency room visits

20 for asthma.

21 Like the power plants, the sources

22 proposed to be controlled under the Transport

23 Rule are significant contributors to ozone and

24 PM2.5 pollution.
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1 Controlling these sources is highly

2 cost effective. EPA's own analysis shows a 40

3 to 1 and up to a 100 to 1 benefit-to-cost ratio

4 for the power plant controls in the Transport

5 Rule.

6 NACAA has undertaken a preliminary

7 assessment of EPA's currently proposed Transport

8 Rule, and I'd like to first share with you

9 several positive features of the proposed rule

10 that we have identified.

11 We applaud EPA for thoughtfully

12 considering how to remedy the fatal flaws

13 identified in court decisions striking down the

14 CAIR rule.

15 For example, we are encouraged by

16 EPA's provisions limiting interstate trading.

17 These will ensure that a substantial portion of

18 a state's assigned emissions reduction occur in

19 that state.

20 We are also pleased that EPA has

21 attempted to align the Rule's compliance

22 deadlines with attainment deadlines for the

23 ozone and PM2.5 air quality standards.

24 NACAA also supports the Agency's use
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1 of air quality factors and a health benefits

2 assessment calculating states' emissions

3 budgets, rather than basing the budget solely on

4 the availability of cost-effective controls.

5 We are also pleased that EPA's

6 committed to quickly finalizing a second

7 transport rule, Transport Rule II, in

8 recognition that much tighter NOx caps will be

9 needed to address the pending revision to the

10 8-hour ozone standard.

11 NACAA strongly supports EPA's pledge

12 to review whether a new or revised Transport

13 Rule is needed each time it revises an air

14 quality standard.

15 I would now like to turn to several

16 important areas of the Rule that NACAA believes

17 need to be strengthened.

18 NACAA believes the NOx emission caps in

19 the proposed Transport Rule are not stringent

20 enough.

21 While EPA proposes to lower the SO2 cap

22 in 2014, the Agency makes no such adjustment for

23 NOx.

24 Instead, EPA proposes to keep the same
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1 overly generous NOx cap for 2014 that is

2 proposed for 2012, which still leaves several

3 areas vulnerable to interstate transport

4 problem.

5 Although EPA says it will address the

6 NOx reductions needed to meet the soon-to-be

7 promulgated revised ozone standard in Transport

8 Rule II, it is imperative that the Agency

9 include in this Transport Rule a second, tighter

10 NOx cap in 2014 to assist states in attaining

11 the current ozone standard.

12 Then, as EPA plans, the Agency should

13 turn to the forthcoming ozone standard and

14 promulgate a far more stringent NOx cap for

15 Transport Rule II that achieves the maximum

16 emission reductions that are technologically

17 feasible and cost effective to ameliorate the

18 entire transport problem associated with the

19 revised ozone standard.

20 In addition, the Transport Rule fails

21 to include all sources that contribute

22 significantly to transport such as industrial,

23 commercial and institutional boilers and cement

24 kilns.
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1 These additional source categories

2 represent a significant percentage of the

3 states' NOx and SO2 emissions inventories and

4 also contribute to interstate transport

5 problems.

6 EPA must address these source

7 categories as well when it proposes its

8 Transport Rule II.

9 Furthermore, EPA's analysis in the

10 Transport Rule is not complete. There are

11 dozens of states that will need to do more in

12 order to satisfy their Clean Air Act obligation

13 to address transport.

14 We are disappointed that after

15 spending a year and a half to analyze interstate

16 transport, EPA still presents us with an

17 incomplete solution.

18 Finally, and very critically, NACAA

19 urges EPA to finalize Transport Rule II quickly.

20 EPA must promulgate a second Transport

21 Rule no later than 2012 if the Agency is indeed

22 serious about helping state and local air

23 pollution control agencies to address interstate

24 transport, meet their statutory obligations
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1 under the Clean Air Act and to ultimately attain

2 the health-based standards.

3 We look forward to working with the

4 Agency to accomplish this important rule.

5 Thank you for the opportunity to

6 comment, and I will be happy to take any

7 questions.

8 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Great. Thank you

9 very much. If you don't mind hanging there for

10 a minute.

11 Ms. Harant. And you might also spell

12 your name if you don't mind.

13 MS. JOYCE HARANT: I'd be happy to.

14 Name is Joyce Harant, H-a-r-a-n-t, and

15 I'm from Peoria, here in Illinois, and I was

16 originally the driver, but I am now testifying

17 also.

18 I'm part of a group called Peoria

19 Families Against Toxic Waste that was formed in

20 2005 to oppose hazardous waste landfill

21 expansion.

22 And so we are concerned about toxic,

23 so, in general, about those that come from the

24 air.
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1 And I am in favor, strongly in favor

2 of this rule but think it needs to be stronger.

3 Your second alternative which sets a

4 pollution limit for each state and specifies

5 limits for each power plant I believe is the way

6 to go, and I say that -- I live in Illinois, and

7 I know that if there's a way to wheel and deal

8 and put something off, it will happen in

9 Illinois, and we'll be here 5 years from now,

10 and Illinois won't be any further along, so I

11 encourage that you do the strictest possible way

12 to -- so that everybody knows what's happening

13 in the state, what's going to happen for each

14 power plant, not only in Illinois but all around

15 us, because the other part of my thinking is

16 that -- and I believe Mr. Aburano was gracious

17 to be at an ozone forum in Peoria.

18 And we have a problem in Peoria, and

19 there's always the circle. The pollution's

20 coming from someplace else. It's always a way

21 out on these things.

22 And we also have a tremendous problem

23 in air around our schools. There was a study

24 about school air pollution, and we are very
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1 offended about school air pollution.

2 And we have a lot of lead pollution

3 problems mainly from housing in Peoria, but

4 anything that comes from the air on to the

5 ground is going to only make that problem worse.

6 But everybody else says the problem is

7 from someplace else, "It's not here," and so

8 having stronger rules for everybody where it's

9 known that this is what you have to meet in this

10 state and in other states will help that.

11 I think that's basically what I would

12 like to say.

13 I guess the other thing would be for

14 the ozone standard that you are going to be

15 adopting, I hope that you will make it be the

16 strongest as possible.

17 And I thank you again for this

18 opportunity in holding these hearings here.

19 Thank you.

20 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much:

21 I just have one question.

22 Could you just talk a little bit more

23 about the Peoria Families Against Toxic Waste?

24 Is it citizens?
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1 MS. HARANT: It's grassroots. We're

2 not incorporated. We have no money or very

3 little money.

4 We have taken a local company to

5 court. We've appealed to the state Supreme

6 Court on issues of expansion.

7 We've been focusing on landfills and

8 what's going into the ground, but we are also

9 very concerned about what's in the air because

10 we are concerned about all sorts of pollutants.

11 And we see the connection to long term

12 for public health. What we consume, what we

13 breathe, what we drink is all related, and what

14 would we classify ourselves as?

15 We are tenacious, but we are trying

16 not to be unreasonable, and we try to work with

17 the groups, the groups that we have been in

18 opposition with or the providers, we try to find

19 some common ground so that we can find some

20 reasonable solutions.

21 And if you'd like more information, we

22 can perhaps this week -- I can be a contact.

23 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. Great. Thank

24 you very much.
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1 We also are tenacious and try not to

2 be unreasonable, so...

3 MS. HARANT: We have a lot in common

4 then.

5 MR. SMITH: I'm always happy to see

6 people from downstate Illinois, having grown up

7 in a little town maybe about 50 miles south of

8 there and having spent a summer in college

9 working for a certain large company that makes a

10 lot of bright yellow, but I wanted to ask

11 Mr. Hodina, one place we're looking for input in

12 our comments is on these wintertime short terms.

13 Seems like it's in the northern tier

14 states. There's a lot of issues related to sort

15 of what was happening with wintertime NOx.

16 You could help us on that particular

17 issue.

18 MR. JAMES HODINA: When you say "short

19 term," are you talking 24-hour?

20 MR. SMITH: I'm sorry. The 24-hour PM

21 contributions in the winter. That was one of

22 the pieces of unfinished business we discussed

23 in the preamble.

24 MR. JAMES HODINA: I'd like to take
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1 that back, but we'll just make additional

2 comments I'm sure.

3 MS. RODMAN: I also had just a

4 clarifying question.

5 MR. JAMES HODINA: Sure.

6 MS. RODMAN: You talked about the need

7 for a stricter NOx cap.

8 MR. JAMES HODINA: Correct.

9 MS. RODMAN: And then talked primarily

10 about ozone.

11 Are you also suggesting that the

12 annual NOx cap should be tightened?

13 MR. JAMES HODINA: Well, obviously,

14 modeling is a strong tool there to help us

15 analyze that, and we did ask questions about the

16 budgets, and even yesterday with our own calls

17 tried to get a better understanding how the two

18 models work together to set up the overall

19 benefits versus the allocations and so forth.

20 So we're still trying to understand,

21 quite honestly, how it's coming together, but I

22 think our general observations were that the NOx

23 life seemed more lenient than what we needed to

24 achieve.
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1 Eastern coast especially, ozone is a

2 primary concern indefinitely. Would be their

3 emphasis, maybe some of the more northern

4 states, PM2.5 might not be, but certainly take

5 this back to our committees and see what kind of

6 specific, more specific input we can provide.

7 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. Thank you both

8 very much. Appreciate it. Next two speakers,

9 please.

10 Joyce Blumenshine and Tracy Meints

11 Fox, and you might also spell your names for the

12 court reporter too. That would be useful.

13 MS. JOYCE BLUMENSHINE: I'm Joyce

14 Blumenshine, B-l-u-m-e-n-s-h-i-n-e.

15 I am here as a volunteer and also

16 Conservation Chair for Heart of Illinois Group

17 Sierra Club.

18 I live in Peoria, 150 miles south of

19 here in the beautiful Illinois River Valley with

20 our oak timber bluffs and wonderful scenery and

21 topography which is nice in Illinois.

22 I did ride up with Joyce Harant.

23 There was three of us, and we made the

24 determination that we had to be here and wanted
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1 to be here today because we sincerely thank each

2 of you on this Panel for coming to Illinois.

3 It is so important to us in Peoria

4 that these more strict standards are adopted.

5 We are in support of EPA and

6 appreciate your leadership in moving forward for

7 better air quality.

8 Peoria is impacted from southwest

9 prevailing winds most often, and we have four

10 coal-fired old power plants within our region.

11 There's one immediately to the south

12 edge of Peoria, E.D. Edwards (Ameran), Duck

13 Creek plant is in an adjacent county, Fulton

14 County.

15 We have the Havana power plant just

16 down river, which when the south winds come,

17 those particulate comes from -- that area also

18 from the Powerton plant in Pekin.

19 Those are four immediate to us, and if

20 the wind shifts, unfortunately, from the north,

21 we have Hennepin power plant to the north of us.

22 So we in many ways feel that we are

23 besieged in our beautiful River Valley by these

24 old coal-fired power plants.
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1 Personally, I can relate because I

2 have a co-worker for 9 years who suffered from

3 asthma, and I remember her calls into work

4 saying she would be late, she had to pull her

5 car over.

6 The air was so bad she had to stop

7 because she was in a panic because she was

8 having asthma attacks.

9 When you hear an individual for whom

10 you care about have those types of things on a

11 regular basis over 9 years, I became personally

12 acutely aware, although very thankful that I

13 didn't have that situation, I became acutely

14 aware of the impacts of air quality on

15 individuals' lives and their ability to perform

16 work and carry out their daily usefulness as a

17 citizen in this country where they should have

18 the right to quality of air and clean air.

19 And she was a single mother of two

20 children, and her health situation was a real

21 toll on her family, so what you are doing as

22 leadership for this country with your proposed

23 regulations, and, we hope, even stronger

24 regulations are essential.
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1 The time is now to move forward with

2 stronger regulations, and this Transport Rule is

3 an essential step.

4 In my role as a volunteer leader with

5 our local Sierra Club and our dedicated crew of

6 over 700 members, we have tried to work on air

7 quality issues in Peoria.

8 When we go to the score card

9 tabulation of air quality index, Peoria has

10 nitrogen oxide emissions in the 90th percentile,

11 the worst rating.

12 And it's the same for sulfur dioxide

13 emissions, and we are concerned about

14 particulates in our area.

15 We have tried to talk to our regional

16 planning commissions about concerns for ozone.

17 We currently are in attainment.

18 We have been very close at times to

19 being concerned that Peoria would not be in

20 attainment.

21 So currently although not one of the

22 red or yellow dots on the maps and materials,

23 we're close, and we do not want to enter into

24 that category.
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1 We look to your rulings as a way to

2 help our community be careful not to get out of

3 attainment I should say, and, also, that we can

4 improve air for us.

5 And also the responsibilities that we

6 have in our central Illinois area, so that the

7 pollution from the four immediate coal-fired

8 power plants around us and the fifth one to the

9 north don't continue to impact areas outside of

10 our state.

11 I think as individuals we should all

12 be keenly aware of that, and what you're doing

13 with proposing more stringent rulings is part of

14 what we should be document nationwide to care

15 for each other in other communities.

16 And the impacts long term on our

17 forest resources, our water resources and the

18 environment on which we all depend.

19 So I thank you again very much for

20 this opportunity to speak and encourage every

21 effort for the strongest regulations.

22 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much.

23 Ms. Meints Fox.

24 MS. TRACY MEINTS FOX: My name is
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1 Tracy Meints, M-e-i-n-t-s, Fox, F-o-x.

2 I'm here today as a community activist

3 who works on a variety of pollution issues in

4 central Illinois.

5 I'm pleased to work with Joyce

6 Blumenshine and to volunteer with Joyce Harant

7 and Peoria Families Against Toxic Waste.

8 I'm also active with a third

9 environmental group, Central Illinois Global

10 Warming Solutions Group.

11 We're a small group of activists who

12 pester the county board and local government to

13 pave the way for renewable energy to improve

14 energy efficiency and to take the steps to

15 protect air, land and water resources in central

16 Illinois.

17 I'm here today in full support of the

18 EPA's actions and the Surface Transport Rule.

19 I believe that it embodies three

20 principles which need to be broad-based and

21 underlay regulation of all pollutants in our

22 society.

23 I believe it's a step forward and a

24 move to a better energy future because it helps
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1 to place the true cost of using coal and fueling

2 our nation on coal back on to the coal plants.

3 I'm very happy to see that the public

4 health impacts will no longer be absorbed by the

5 public at large, but the cost of the pollution

6 control technologies will be put on the plant so

7 that the cost of coal reflects its true cost

8 rather than allowing all of these socialized

9 costs to go out to the general public and the

10 benefits to remain privatized to the power

11 generators.

12 I think that's an important principle,

13 and I would hope that as the EPA moves forward

14 on things like coal ash and regulations of other

15 pollutants that the true cost, the true expense

16 to society of dirty fossil fuels would become

17 clear, and eventually they would go out of the

18 market.

19 Secondly, I think that this Surface

20 Transport Rule does a great job in that it

21 doesn't allow grandfathering.

22 As someone who has spent years

23 fighting hazardous waste landfills, it's very

24 frustrating to be told, "Well, it was," quote,
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1 'grandfathered' in at the time that the

2 regulations went into effect."

3 I'm pleased to see that the EPA has

4 not chosen to grandfather anything in. Even

5 60-plus-year-old coal plants will remain

6 unexempt from this regulation.

7 And I urge the EPA to stand strong and

8 to adopt similar tough stances as other

9 pollutants are regulated in the next cycle of

10 looking everything over.

11 Thirdly, I'm happy to see that this

12 regulation embodies the "good neighbor" policy.

13 As someone who goes to a lot of small

14 meetings, the excuse for not stopping sewers

15 from emitting into the river, the excuse for not

16 going after industrial polluters, the excuse for

17 not working on staying out of ozone attainment

18 is always that there are bigger polluters

19 elsewhere, and their position is somehow getting

20 across the borders into Peoria County, and,

21 therefore, it would be futile to act.

22 It is difficult for me as a community

23 activist to emphasize enough what a huge barrier

24 this is to action at the local levels,
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1 especially and financially strapped small and

2 midsized towns.

3 We think, "Well, it's all Chicago. It

4 couldn't be anything happening here."

5 As the EPA begins to roll out

6 policies, and they put this "good neighbor" into

7 effect, and which they know everyone is being

8 regulated, and they're being regulated not just

9 for their effect in the immediate area, but for

10 their contributions to other areas.

11 It removes that barrier, and I think

12 it's important to move forward in that way.

13 My only comments would be that I would

14 hope that as the EPA goes forward that this will

15 be part of a larger effort that will take a more

16 holistic approach to pollution.

17 That is the only fault I can find with

18 the Rule. I think that you really need to

19 factor in not just criteria, but all pollutants

20 that are affecting the area to have an

21 understanding in the modeling of the overall

22 burden on communities.

23 I also think that the Rule needs to

24 look at all industries, not just power
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1 generation, and I hope that in future versions

2 it can be expanded to do so.

3 I come from a very old city. We've

4 celebrated our tricentennial. We have many

5 polluting legacy industries in the Illinois

6 River Valley, and those have served us well.

7 Sometimes they come grandfathered in

8 with some permits that really are not helpful to

9 the cause of clean air, land and water.

10 And we hope that this EPA will move us

11 into the 21st century in terms of pollution

12 control.

13 Thank you for the opportunity for

14 people to come and speak locally.

15 I belong to small groups with limited

16 or no budgets, so it's wonderful to be able to

17 travel here and give my voice because there are

18 no lobbyists that speak for me, and I can't do a

19 national campaign to contact people.

20 So your efforts to come to people are

21 much appreciated. Thank you.

22 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you both very

23 much. If anyone has any questions or comments?

24 MR. NAPOLITANO: Thank you very much.
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1 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. I understand

2 we have no more speakers that are assigned right

3 now.

4 If there is anyone here that would

5 like to come up and speak, feel free.

6 We are going to be open here until 5

7 o'clock today, and we think we've got additional

8 speakers that are coming along.

9 So we'll stay here, we'll suspend, and

10 then in the event that no one does come, but if

11 there is anyone here that would like to testify,

12 you're more than welcome to come up.

13 Or if you decide later to do so,

14 that's fine as well.

15 In the meantime we will go ahead and

16 suspend for a few minutes until we have more

17 speakers, thank you.

18 (WHEREUPON, a recess was

19 had from 2:38 p.m. to

20 2:59 p.m.)

21 CHAIRMAN CLARK: We will reconvene the

22 hearing then, and we have a speaker.

23 Ms. Ringle.

24 MS. WEEKS RINGLE: My name is Weeks
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1 Ringle, W-e-e-k-s, R-i-n-g-l-e.

2 I am 48 years old. I'm a mom, a

3 designer and a writer and a business owner.

4 I'm also a lifelong asthmatic.

5 All my life I've wanted to speak to

6 some of the people who decide how clean our air

7 will be and to ask, or, more truthfully, to beg

8 for the cleanest air possible, so I am truly

9 grateful to have this chance to speak with you.

10 In front of me are the medications and

11 equipment I need to be able to breathe.

12 In addition, later today, I will

13 receive at my doctor's office, three

14 immunizations I get each week as part of my

15 asthma care.

16 I spend hundreds of dollars each month

17 on medications, doctor visits and immunizations.

18 When I am healthy, I can, with these

19 medications, work out for an hour each day to

20 keep my body as strong as possible.

21 On a good day, I'm able to ride a

22 hundred miles on my bike. On a bad day I have

23 difficulty getting enough breath to finish a

24 sentence.
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1 Sometimes the medications just stop

2 working or I develop infections.

3 In the past year I've had six

4 respiratory infections each lasting from 10 days

5 to 3 weeks.

6 Last year I was hospitalized and

7 confined to bed for three consecutive months and

8 had to ask our publisher to delay our book

9 release because I couldn't breathe enough to

10 work.

11 Were it not for my heroic husband, who

12 does both my job and his when I'm ill, I would

13 have to apply for disability because no employer

14 would tolerate that kind of absenteeism.

15 Asthma dominates my life, and although

16 I work hard to be a compliant patient, and to

17 take excellent care of myself, much of my effort

18 to keep my asthma in control is undermined by

19 poor air quality.

20 I thank you for the measures you are

21 considering and ask that you continue to push

22 for the cleanest air possible.

23 I am certain that some will tell you

24 it is too costly to adapt clean air measures.
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1 I am also certain that none of those

2 people has ever struggled to breathe as much as

3 I have.

4 I ask you to think of breathing clean

5 air as a human right. Part of being a great

6 country is having clean air. Thank you.

7 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much.

8 Thank you.

9 MS. WEEKS RINGLE: You're quite

10 welcome. Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you.

12 We will suspend then. Thank you.

13 (WHEREUPON, a recess was

14 had from 3:04 p.m. to

15 3:37 p.m.)

16 CHAIRMAN CLARK: We have Casey

17 Gifford.

18 MS. CASEY GIFFORD: My name is Casey

19 Gifford.

20 I'm originally from Oregon, and that's

21 where I go to school. I'm a runner, and Oregon

22 is a great place to run, and there are plenty of

23 trails and I come here and I travel, and I

24 travel in the east, and I go running wherever I
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1 go, and my goal is to run a marathon in every

2 state, but I don't know that I want to run, you

3 know, out here, because it's harder to run.

4 Feels like I'm running at elevation,

5 and for people that have asthma, I can't even

6 imagine how it is to breathe, and I don't want

7 to have to walk in a shopping mall when I travel

8 to get my exercise.

9 So I encourage the EPA to pass this

10 rule. Thank you.

11 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much.

12 When you said you your goal was to run

13 a marathon, I thought you were going to stop the

14 sentence right there.

15 You said in every state. That's a

16 little intimidating.

17 Anyway, thank you very much for your

18 comments.

19 We will suspend.

20 (WHEREUPON, a recess was

21 had from 3:39 p.m. to

22 7:14 p.m.)

23 MR. TONY FULLER: My name is Tony

24 Fuller. I'm a volunteer with the Sierra Club,
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1 and mostly I've been volunteering around air and

2 energy issues in the Chicago area.

3 Mostly I've been concerned about

4 global warming, but because of my concerns about

5 global warming I've also learned about other

6 pollutant issues that are caused by burning at

7 coal-powered plants, and one of the things I've

8 learned from going around and talking to people

9 around the city is just really how much of a

10 health issue the bad air basically causes for

11 people in this city, and, you know, I've been

12 lucky that myself, I personally have not been as

13 affected as much, but I've talked to a number of

14 people that moved in from out of state or from

15 other locations and have really felt the impact.

16 They love the city. They love the

17 environment, but one of the drawbacks is the bad

18 air, and I've also heard about children that are

19 impacted, and, you know, I just really -- I just

20 find it heartbreaking to hear, you know, that

21 kids can't just go out there and really enjoy

22 themselves outside, and so basically I see the

23 need for this rule basically just to really help

24 bring the cost -- I mean a lot of times what I'm
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1 seeing is that the costs are just hard to

2 quantify so they're completely ignored, and the

3 human health damages and, you know, premature

4 deaths, which, you know, how do you even value

5 that?

6 It's just really overlooked, you know,

7 I mean because it doesn't have a number figure,

8 it does not get the attention that I really

9 think it deserves.

10 So I'm not a scientist, but I just

11 wanted to say there are a lot of people out

12 there suffering because of this, and I just

13 wanted to come in and say that I support this

14 effort to make strong reductions in these

15 pollutants, and I believe that the costs

16 involved are negligible compared to the benefits

17 that it's going to make for people in the city,

18 and, of course, around the country as well. I

19 guess that's it.

20 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Okay. Well, no,

21 that's great. We appreciate it very much.

22 Any questions?

23 (No response.)

24 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you for your
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1 time. We really appreciate you taking the time

2 to come by.

3 MR. TONY FULLER: All right. Thank

4 you.

5 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had

6 from 7:17 p.m. to 7:32 p.m.)

7 CHAIRMAN CLARK: We have been taking

8 testimony all day from folks, so feel free to go

9 in whatever order you would like, and if you

10 wouldn't mind, just when you say your name, if

11 you could maybe spell the last name too for the

12 court reporter.

13 MR. VINCENT HEADINGTON: All right.

14 I'm Vince Headington,

15 H-e-a-d-i-n-g-t-o-n.

16 My profession is that of a healthcare

17 attorney, and I welcome the opportunity to

18 testify in this hearing.

19 And I do appreciate the hearing

20 officers taking the time to hear the testimony.

21 I know it may have been a long day for

22 you, but, anyway, we came in from the western

23 suburbs.

24 I live in Burr Ridge, Illinois, in the
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1 western suburbs, and the subject of air

2 pollution is something that I feel very strongly

3 about.

4 I'm here to support the proposed rule.

5 In very simple terms, for too long

6 coal-fired power plants have shifted the cost of

7 the consequences of their air pollution to the

8 general population both in terms of healthcare

9 and to small employers such as myself, who have

10 to bear the cost of the days off work.

11 And all of this has a cost. There's

12 no such thing as being able to pollute without

13 cost.

14 So my main reason for supporting the

15 rule is that I believe that it would, A, reduce

16 healthcare costs and also save costs for small

17 employers. Thank you.

18 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much.

19 MRS. MAUREEN HEADINGTON: My name is

20 Maureen Headington, H-e-a-d-i-n-g-t-o-n, and

21 since our move to the western suburbs -- I was

22 born and raised in Chicago, but we saved and

23 saved for the dream home and put in a wonderful

24 English garden, and then I discovered about a
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1 year into living there that a toxic waste

2 incinerator was being cited 3 miles from us.

3 As a former teacher, I taught in the

4 inner city for 20 years here in Chicago, it led

5 me down an entirely different path, and now the

6 public is my classroom.

7 I've had to educate myself on toxic

8 waste burners, hospital incinerators, coal-fired

9 power plants, most recently on the transport of

10 nuclear waste.

11 We elected to stay in our community.

12 I quit the job I had at the time in order to do

13 what was necessary to inform my neighbors, my

14 municipality of what was coming, because the

15 toxic burner was well on its way to -- in terms

16 of collecting all of the permits it would have

17 needed, and it would have been a humdinger

18 bringing in railroad ties and utility poles

19 soaked in creosote from all over the country to

20 burn 24/7, on Illinois Retail Rate Lock, a

21 wonderful convoluted law where we, the citizens,

22 would be paying for our own poison because it

23 has enormous tax credits.

24 I'm have concerns about tax credits.
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1 I'm not going to get into that on your time now,

2 but it seems to me in the energy sector the

3 public is having to bear so very much, and

4 there's a tipping point.

5 And I have given now 15 years of my

6 life to this, and, quite frankly, I never

7 finished unpacking. There's still boxes.

8 Because this is a passion.

9 And even though I have a job now, I

10 probably give this 40 to 50 hours a week because

11 it's so important. For whatever reason it's on

12 me.

13 So I'm glad you're here today because

14 it was worth the drive in from Burr Ridge to be

15 able to be here and represent the communities

16 that I have worked with over the last 10 years.

17 If you want to know anything about my

18 other projects, feel free to ask me after this

19 testimony, but I have a real concern.

20 I didn't know about this hearing

21 except that someone from one of the lung

22 associations two days ago sent me something, and

23 "Oh, oh. I have to do this." This is so

24 important.
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1 I wish these things would be broadcast

2 on every radio station, on every television

3 station because metro Chicago, it is just

4 unfathomable what we've had to endure.

5 As a teacher I can tell you firsthand

6 that the absenteeism which results in lots of

7 funding for the schools, the numbers of children

8 from when I first started teaching to when I

9 left that are out because of asthma or

10 bronchial-type situations, so that in and of

11 itself, a different vantage point as a teacher

12 than, you know, perhaps my husband, when, you

13 know, employees can't come to work.

14 It seems what when famous people die

15 or become disabled, it makes all the news, and

16 it calls attention to underlying problems, but

17 when unknown people die or become afflicted, the

18 loss to family and friends is felt just as

19 deeply but without public attention and without

20 public outcry.

21 Pollution, whether from cigarettes or

22 cars, from buses or old coal-powered plants

23 contribute to the toxic stew that has become our

24 air.
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1 Metro Chicago's air quality suffers,

2 and so does its population.

3 Technology is available to eliminate

4 or greatly diminish emissions, but it is

5 contrary to the polluters' bottom line.

6 You are the standard bearers and the

7 department charged with protecting the

8 environment, and can help us and can help to

9 determine whether you dole out life or dole out

10 death.

11 Unfortunately, when someone dies due

12 to heart disease, as my father did six months

13 ago, my mother seven weeks after him, also a

14 heart-related issue, it's never "He died of

15 pollution."

16 But I know unequivocally from the work

17 that I've done that it's a major contributor to

18 premature deaths.

19 Pollution trading credits deem some

20 communities unfortunate by receiving the lion's

21 share of the pollutants and the toxins.

22 These games do little to benefit the

23 whole of society, and I find it appalling.

24 Communities like mine, our current
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1 one, our dream home, have been downwind of a

2 hospital incinerator and caught between four old

3 coal-fired power plants, both east and west of

4 us, and I never knew I had sinuses until we

5 moved there, and I can count on at least four or

6 five sinus infections a year.

7 And I found out that that's very

8 widespread among our neighbors, "Oh, I get

9 antibiotics." Who wants to live their life on

10 antibiotics?

11 Many of the pollutants fall most

12 heavily within a 30- to 50-mile radius.

13 Here in Illinois, we have the

14 misfortune of an incredibly unlevel playing

15 field when it comes to environmental protection.

16 Yes, we have our do-gooder

17 organizations like Sierra Club, American Lung,

18 as well as activists such as myself, but how can

19 we speak with a state that allows its former

20 head of Illinois EPA to leave their posts only

21 to go to work as lobbyists and lawyers for the

22 very polluters that are posing the risks to us?

23 This has happened to former

24 administrators in recent years. The benefits of
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1 membership seem limitless when it comes to

2 industries, and former players to their

3 advantage, and to the disadvantage of every

4 Illinois resident.

5 Then, again, that has been known to

6 happen I know on the federal level as well, but

7 I find that what we have most control over is

8 what happens locally.

9 I can't seem to affect what happens in

10 Washington, and I'm just grateful for the

11 opportunity to be able to address you.

12 The onus of proof should be on the

13 polluters to prove that their emissions are safe

14 for the public, but it seems that it's reversed.

15 And we're here. We're trying to

16 prevent death and disease. We know how costly

17 -- and I was aghast to see, you know, from your

18 figures, just based on that alone as a society,

19 how can we afford not to go ahead and require

20 that?

21 That the pollution controls, whether

22 it's the scrubbers or whatever you deem

23 necessary for these polluters, be taken into

24 account.
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1 To me that's just most critical.

2 During the past nine years, I've been

3 attending city council, village hall, county

4 board meetings with a campaign that I initiated

5 called "Stand Up/Save Lives Campaign."

6 At that time, because I was one of the

7 -- successful in killing the incinerator

8 project, Monley Association asked me to help

9 them with something with the Federal Clean Air

10 standards, and then I found myself as a director

11 on the Illinois Environmental Council, you know,

12 where I served as director for seven years. The

13 last two as their vice president.

14 I initiated that campaign while with

15 IEC, but since leaving them, thank goodness, he

16 buys stamps, because I use his stamps and all

17 his office equipment, and I'm in business.

18 What I've done is tried to collect

19 evidence for you, and I didn't bring you a set

20 of all of the resolutions, but I thought what

21 better way to impress somebody because I

22 understand you have maybe 20 to 30 people coming

23 to testify.

24 This is evidence of all the documents
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1 that I've done presentations in front of who

2 adopted resolutions representing, however many

3 thousand constituents are in that jurisdiction

4 and this was specific to the exemptions of old

5 coal-fired power plants from the strictest

6 standard of Federal Clean Air Act, and I don't

7 know if any of you are from Illinois. Or you

8 are.

9 Oh, God, well, you'll recognize these,

10 and I can do this in 2 minutes, but I give you

11 -- he's timing me on it. Because sometimes you

12 only get 3 minutes to speak.

13 CHAIRMAN CLARK: You're okay tonight.

14 MRS. MAUREEN HEADINGTON: Thank you.

15 I've received resolutions from 102 governing

16 bodies representing over 8 million Illinois

17 residents who adopted resolutions seeking to end

18 the exemptions of old coal-fired power plants

19 from modern emission standards of the Federal

20 Clean Air Act, for all the reasons that, and

21 more, that I've laid out before you.

22 The Village of Addison, Village of

23 Antioch, City of Aurora, Village of Barrington,

24 Bloomingdale, Bridgeview, Brookfield, Burbank,
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1 Burr Ridge. That was my first. That's where I

2 live.

3 Carpentersville, Cary, Chicago

4 Heights, Chicago Ridge, the town of Cicero,

5 Clarendon Hills, City of Countryside, City of

6 Darien, Deerfield, Des Plaines, Downers Grove,

7 Elmhurst, Elmwood Park, Evanston, Evergreen

8 Park, Flossmoor, Forest Park, Glen Ellyn,

9 Glendale Heights, Glenview, Grayslake, Village

10 of Hanover Park, City of Harvey, Harwood

11 Heights, Hawthorne Woods, City of Hickory Hills,

12 Highland Park, Hinsdale, Hometown, Homewood,

13 Indian Head Park, Justice, LaGrange, LaGrange

14 Park, Lake in the Hills, Lemont, Libertyville,

15 Lincolnshire, Lincolnwood, Lindenhurst, Lisle,

16 Lockport, Lyons, City of McHenry, City of

17 Markham, Maywood, Village of Melrose Park,

18 Mokena, Morton Grove, Naperville, Niles,

19 Norridge, North Barrington, Northbrook,

20 Northlake, Oak Park, Oak Brook Terrace, Orland

21 Park, Oswego, Palos Park, Park Forest, Park

22 Ridge, Phoenix, Posen, City of Prospect Heights,

23 villages of Riverdale, Riverside, Roselle,

24 Schaumburg, Skokie, Summit, Tinley Park, Vernon
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1 Hills, Villa Park, Warrenville, Waukegan,

2 Western Springs, Westmont, City of Wheaton,

3 Willow Springs, Willowbrook, Wood Dale, the City

4 of Zion, and when I -- after getting the numbers

5 of cities and villages, I went to the

6 conferences that are representative to these

7 communities and received separate resolutions

8 from the West Central Municipal Conference, the

9 DuPage Mayors and Managers Conference, the

10 DuPage County Board, the Lake County Board, the

11 Will County Board, the Kane County Board, the

12 Cook County Board, Lyons Township, Bremen

13 Township and Rich Township, which is why I have

14 not had a vacation to 10 years.

15 Some of these resolutions happened --

16 were initiated quickly where the need was

17 obviously seen, and they were able to do it.

18 Others took a period of sometimes up

19 to six months and even a year to go through

20 various subcommittees that they had to go

21 through in their jurisdiction.

22 And I will submit to you this

23 represents thousands of hours of work, and,

24 also, more importantly, what 8 million people in
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1 metropolitan Chicago wanted, are deserving of I

2 feel. Thank you.

3 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Thank you very much.

4 You can just about add Washington,

5 D.C. to your list now I think.

6 Actually, we would like that list I

7 think.

8 "102 Governments Representing Over

9 8,000,000 Illinois Residents."

10 CHAIRMAN CLARK: We will keep it up

11 here.

12 Thank you so much.

13 Let me ask if anyone has any

14 questions.

15 The "Stand Up/Save Lives

16 Campaign," is it sort of an ongoing effort then?

17 MRS. MAUREEN HEADINGTON: Actually,

18 right now I had to put it on a back burner

19 because metro Chicago was slated -- about

20 3 years ago we got a letter from the Union of

21 Concerned Scientists.

22 It was a public hearing in Joliet

23 involving the transport of high-level nuclear

24 waste for potential reprocessing here as part of
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1 the Global Nuclear Energy Partnership Project,

2 and I went to that public hearing.

3 I was the only person from Cook County

4 there. It was not advertised as it should have

5 been.

6 I let local press know about it, and I

7 did the only thing I know how to do.

8 I started getting resolutions, and I

9 did get the Cook County Board to give me one

10 representing the 5 million people in metro

11 Chicago and Cook County.

12 Interestingly, every single County

13 Board Commissioner, whether a Dem or a

14 Republican, asked for a co-sponsor on this.

15 The county where this is slated to go

16 would not do it.

17 In fact, they had me pulled off the

18 agenda for their Public Health and Safety

19 Committee Meeting, which I had been asked to

20 speak at along with a nuclear scientist.

21 So, you know, I have been very focused

22 on that because of what's been happening in

23 Washington, and the fact that even though GNUP

24 is no longer in name, it is in theory, and talk
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1 about subsidies, I think it pales to some of the

2 ones to the coal plants in terms of nuclear.

3 So to the extent I can do these things

4 together, I never call something over.

5 If I am in a position or can meet a

6 public official, I will approach them about an

7 opportunity to appear before them, but right now

8 my main focus has been, and we have been

9 successful in keeping the GNUP from our

10 community. We got many, many people to respond

11 and many communities to respond, and, hopefully,

12 I don't know. Sometimes things are just too

13 big.

14 The Davids win one every now and then.

15 We did with the toxic waste

16 incinerators, and it was such a lesson to me

17 that when we think our one voice doesn't matter,

18 of course it was my voice and other voices

19 similar, but I also resent that I had to leave

20 my job, that I had to pay $1,500 for postage to

21 let every home in my community know what was

22 coming, and to pay for radio station ads that I

23 had to learn to write and myself, my husband

24 with his running stopwatch, and I spent $15,000
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1 keeping -- to try to kill something that never

2 should have been part of Illinois law.

3 And I think we have got a really good

4 governor now, but there are so many issues here,

5 and I'm afraid corruption is something that,

6 especially in the energy sector, and, you know,

7 so I mean you're front burner in terms of -- no

8 pun intended -- dealing with it in the best way

9 for the public because industry has more

10 advocates than it ever needs, and the numbers of

11 lobbyists, and I don't call myself a lobbyist.

12 I'm just a voice. And others are

13 trying to doing what I'm trying to do, and I'm

14 just grateful for this opportunity, and it was

15 worth the drive in to see you.

16 CHAIRMAN CLARK: Well, thank you.

17 We very much appreciate you coming.

18 Thank you both very much.

19 MR. VINCENT HEADINGTON: Thank you.

20 MRS. MAUREEN HEADINGTON: Thank you.

21 CHAIRMAN CLARK: The hearing is

22 officially closed. Thank you.

23

24
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1 STATE OF ILLINOIS )

 ) SS:

2 COUNTY OF C O O K )

3

4 CYNTHIA J. CONFORTI, being first

5 duly sworn on oath says that she is a court

6 reporter doing business in the City of Chicago;

7 that she reported in shorthand the proceedings

8 given at the taking of said hearing and that the

9 foregoing is a true and correct transcript of

10 her shorthand notes so taken as aforesaid and

11 contains all the proceedings given at said

12 hearing.

13

14

15 _

 Cynthia J. Conforti, C. S. R.

16 License No. 084-003064

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24
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48 127:2

5

5 9:17 10:10,16 11:2

17:5 37:19 102:17

111:9 126:6 146:10

5-minute 73:11

102:16

50 26:11 42:11 89:7

114:7 136:10

50-mile 139:12

52 6:8 34:2 60:9

100:16 105:10

550 34:10

6

6 11:3 25:18

60 26:18

60s 42:18

60-plus-year-old

123:5

633 2:5

64 24:9

66 76:19

7

7,000 40:8

7:14 130:22

7:17 133:6

7:32 133:6

70 23:20 24:11

700 119:6

71 6:6 34:1 86:18

100:15

72 60:8

733 20:15

75 65:3,4 66:3,5

75-parts-per-billion

65:9,16,20 66:1,13

66:22

8

8 11:4,9 73:5 142:16

144:24

8,000,000 145:9

8-hour 107:10

8:59 2:6

80s 82:1

81 24:17

84 65:23 66:2

9

9 76:23 118:2,11

9/11 46:20

90 54:6

90th 119:10

900,000 61:19 67:4

95 23:17

98 54:8