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STATE OF NEW MEXICO ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENT BOARD

No . EIB 13

- 02 ( R ) IN THE MATTER OF PROPOSED REVISIONS TO THE STATE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN FOR THE SAN JUAN GENERATING STATION BEST AVAILABLE RETROFIT TECHNOLOGY DETERMINATION

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

BE IT REMEMBERED that on the 5 th day of September , 2013 , the above

- entitled matter came on for hearing before the New Mexico Environmental Improvement Board , taken at San Juan College , Room 7103 , 4601 College Boulevard , Farmington , New Mexico , at the hour of 9 : 20 a . m .

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A P P E A R A N C E S For the Environmental Improvement Board : DEBORAH PEACOCK GREGORY H . FULFER JAMES R . CASCIANO JOHN MICHAEL VOLKERDING TIMOTHY L . MORROW MATTHEW HOLT

For the New Mexico Environment Department : BILL GRANTHAM Assistant General Counsel Office of General Counsel New Mexico Environment Department 1190 St . Francis Drive Suite N - 4050 Santa Fe , New Mexico 87505 ( 505 ) 222

- 9594 bill . grantham @ state . nm . us For Public Service Company of New Mexico : RICHARD L . ALVIDREZ MILLER STRATVERT , PA Attorneys at Law 500 Marquette Avenue , Northwest Suite 1100 Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102 ( 505 ) 842

- 4737 ralvidrez @ mstlaw . com KALLIE D . KUEHL Corporate Counsel Public Service Company of New Mexico 414 Silver Avenue , Southwest MS 0805 Albuquerque , New Mexico 87103 ( 505 ) 241

- 0733 kallie . kuehl @ pnmresources . com

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A P P E A R A N C E S ( Continued ) For New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers : PETER J . GOULD General Counsel Post Office Box 34127 Santa Fe , New Mexico 87594

- 4127 ( 505 ) 988

- 4804 pgouldlaw @ gmail . com

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I N D E X PAGE WITNESSES : RYAN FLYNN Direct Testimony 18 Examination by the Board 36 Cross Examination by Mr . Gould 60 ELIZABETH BISBEY - KUEHN Direct Examination by Mr . Grantham 67 TED SCHOOLEY Direct Examination by Mr . Grantham 77 GI - DONG KIM Direct Examination by Mr . Grantham 81 JAMES CRAWFORD Direct Testimony 88 CLAYTON BENALLY Direct Testimony 92 STEVE HENKE Direct Testimony 95 EVERETT F . CHAVEZ Direct Testimony 100 CARLA SONNTAG Direct Testimony 104 JAMES PIOCHE Direct Testimony 106

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I N D E X ( Continued ) PAGE WITNESSES : ELIZABETH BISBEY - KUEHN , TED SCHOOLEY and GI - DONG KIM Examination by the Board 110 Cross Examination by Mr . Gould 128 BEN SHELLY Direct Testimony 131 RICKIE NEZ Direct Testimony 139 NORMAN BEGAYE Direct Testimony 143 DONNA CRAWFORD Direct Testimony 146 DIANA LUCK Direct Testimony 150 PETER GOULD Direct Testimony 151 JOE GONZALES Direct Testimony 155 CHARLIE DUNSWORTH Direct Testimony 157 R . G . Hunt Direct Testimony 158

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I N D E X ( Continued ) PAGE WITNESSES : KYLE LUCAS , DIANE FISCHER and RAJ P . GAIKWAD Direct Examination by Mr . Alvidrez 167 Examination by the Board 185 CHRIS OLSON Direct Examination by Mr . Alvidrez 195 Cross Examination by Mr . Gould 202 RONALD DARNELL Direct Examination by Mr . Alvidrez 207 Examination by the Board 212 Cross Examination by Mr . Gould 215 HUBERT HARWOOD Direct Testimony 224 SHARON CLAHCHISCHILLIAGE Direct Testimony 227

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# 7

E X H I B I T S ADMITTED NMED : 1 . Clean Air Act 169 A and 169 B 230 2 . 40 CFR 51 . 308 230 3 . 40 CFR 51 . 309 230 4 . Appendix Y to 40 CFR Part 51

- BART Guidelines 230 5 . Term Sheet Between the US Environmental Protection Agency , Public Service Company of New Mexico and the State of New Mexico 86 6 . BART Analysis Addendum , PNM San Juan Generating Station , April 1 , 2013 86 7 . Affidavits of publication of public hearing notices 86 8 . Public comments submitted by the US Bureau of Land Management 86 9 . Public comments submitted by the National Park Service 86 10 . Written Testimony of Ted Schooley 86 10 a . Tec Schooley Curriculum Vitae 86 11 . Written Testimony of Elizabeth Bisbey

- Kuehn 86 11 a . Elizabeth Bisbey

- Kuehn resume 86

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# 8

E X H I B I T S ( Continued ) ADMITTED NMED ( Continued ) : 12 . Written Testimony of Gi

- Dong Kim 86 12 a . Gi

- Dong Kim resume 86 15 . Proposed Order and Statement of Reasons for Adoption of SIP Revisions 230 16 . Corrections to Chapter 10 and Appendix D 86 PNM : A . Direct Testimony of Mr . Ronald M . Darnell Submitted on Behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico in Support of Petition for Regulatory Change , including attached exhibits 209 B . Direct Testimony of Mr . Chris M . Olson Submitted on Behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico in Support of Petition for Regulatory Change , including attached exhibits 197 C . Pre - Filed Testimony of Black & Veatch Corporation ( Kyle Lucas & Diane M . Fischer ) Submitted on Behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico , including attached exhibits 175

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E X H I B I T S ADMITTED PNM ( Continued ) : D . Direct Testimony of Sargent & Lundy ( Dr . Rajendra P . Gaikwad ) Submitted on Behalf of Public Service Company of New Mexico in Support of Petition for Regulatory Change , including attached exhibits 175

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MS . PEACOCK : Moving on to item number 7 is the hearing in EIB 13

- 0 2 regarding the regional haze State Implementation Plan ( SIP ) with respect to the determination of Best Available Retrofit Technology ( BART ) for nitrogen oxides from the San Juan Generating Station . Mr . Grantham .

MR . VOLKERDING : Do you have anything prior to starting the record ?

And then if not , I will do my speech . MR . GRANTHAM : I will have an opening statement , but

- -

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MR . GRANTHAM : - - nothing prior to that . MR . VOLKERDING : All right . Good morning . My name is John Volkerding , and I was designated by the Environmental Improvement Board to act

as Hearing Officer in this matter .

The hearing is being held to consider proposed revisions to the State Implementation Plan for San Juan Generating Station Best Available Retrofit Technology determination .

The rulemaking petition was filed by the Environment Department and docketed by the administrator

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as EIB 13

- 0 2 .

Sorry . All right . The hearing will be conducted in accordance with the Board ' s rulemaking procedures set out in 20 . 1 . 1 NMAC . Pursuant to those procedures , I will conduct the hearing so as to provide a reasonable opportunity for all persons to be heard without making the hearing

un reasonably lengthy .

The Rules of Civil Procedure and the Rules of Evidence do not apply , but I will make whatever orders

are necessary to preserve decorum .

All testimony will be taken under oath , and all persons giving testimony will be subject to

cross - examination by any other person in attendance on the subject matter of their testimony and on matters affecting their credibility . I may limit

cross - examination if necessary to avoid harassment , intimidation or repetition .

The hearing is being recorded and transcribed by Cheryl

- - and I ' m not going to do your name perfect

- - Arreguin of Kathy Townsend Court Reporters . You may obtain a copy of the transcript directly from the court reporter . It also eventually becomes a public record , viewable in the office of the Board administrator .

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If you have not signed in , please do so regardless of whether you wish to present public

- - public comment or not .

If you have a phone or pager with you , please silence it .

Okay . Board members , the file contains the petition for hearing and the Department ' s notice of intent to present technical testimony , as well as the Public Service Company of New Mexico ' s notice of intent to present technical testimony .

The New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers have filed a motion for leave to intervene an entry of appearance . That motion was filed timely and will only consist of non technical testimony . Thus , I grant the motion for leave to intervene an d entry of appearance for New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers .

The administrator has received several written comments from members of the public via mail , E - mail or web portal that have been distributed to the Board members . There will also be a couple opportunities for additional comments by members of the public as the hearing progresses .

If any of the members of the public intend to comment , please make sure you do sign in on the register

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so the amount of time needed can be calculated and schedule determined .

Public comment is limited to three minutes and generally will proceed in the order on the sign

- up sheet . Mr . Grantham , please make your appearance and introduce your witnesses .

MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you , Mr . Hearing Officer , Madam Chair , members of the Board .

My name is Bill Grantham . I ' m an assistant general counsel with New Mexico Environment Department .

And with me today are the secretary designate of the Department , Ryan Flynn , and from the Air Bureau

we have Liz Bisbey

- Kuehn , Ted Schooley and Gi

- Dong Kim , who are our three technical witnesses .

And I don ' t know if you plan on taking entries of appearance from the other attorneys before I proceed .

MR . VOLKERDING : I guess why don ' t we . That ' s

a good

- - that ' s a good point .

So the other attorneys for the other parties . MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes , Mr . Hearing Officer , members of the Board .

Rick Alvidrez , and with me is co - counsel Kallie Kuehl of Public Service Company of New Mexico .

And our witnesses today will include Ron

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# 14

Darnell , who is senior vice

- president of public policy . We also have Chris Olson , who is vice

- president of generation . Our outside technical witnesses , we will have Raj Gaikwad , Dr . Raj Gaikwad , Sargent & Lundy ; and from Black & Veatch some familiar faces , we ' ll have Kyle Lucas and also Diane Fischer .

MR . VOLKERDING : And then is there anyone here from New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers ?

MR . GOULD : Mr . Hearing Examiner , members of the Board , my name is Peter Gould . I ' m general counsel of the New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers .

We will engage in some cross - examination . We do want to make a public comment . We will not be filing testimony , but thank you for this opportunity .

MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . Thank you , Mr . Grantham . MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you , Mr . Hearing Officer , members of the Board .

I have a few brief remarks before we get to

our witnesses .

As the Board will recall , the last time we

were here in this

- - in this room , I believe , in 2011 , the Board approved a complete regional haze SIP for New Mexico , and that included , among other things , a Best Available Retrofit Technology , or BART , determination ,

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for the San Juan Generating Station , along with reasonable progress goals for the state and other requirements in accordance with the Section 309 Regional Haze Rule that Ms . Bates talked about a moment ago .

In 2012

- - in November of 2012 , EPA approved that regional haze SIP in its entirety , including some of the NO x 

## - - excuse me - - including some of the BART provisions of that SIP , but did not take action on the NO x 

## BART determination for the San Juan Generating Station , NO x 

## being nitrogen oxides .

EPA did approve the BART determination for the San Juan Generating Station for particulate matter and approved our sulfur dioxide trading program that covers the whole state . So those elements of BART have been addressed . So what we ' re here to consider today is simply the revised State Implementation Plan for the NO x 

## BART determination for the San Juan Generating Station .

Shortly after this Board approved our 2011 SIP , as you know , EPA promulgated a federal implementation rule , or FIP , that had a different BART determination for NO x 

## for San Juan . New Mexico and PNM have challenged that determination .

The c ase is still formally pending in the Tenth Circuit , but in the course of that litigation , the

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# 16 Department , EPA and Public Service Company of New Mexico have reached a tentative agreement that will address the NO x 

## BART determination .

Mr . Flynn will be providing more context on how we got to where we are today , but procedurally I just want to point out that part of the reason for this background is that the

- - the proposed State Implementation Plan that ' s before you contains

- - it still contains the particulate matter and the

- - the particulate matter BART determination for San Juan and the determination that San Juan is the only source in New Mexico that ' s subject to BART .

And the reason we did that is we wanted to keep our State Implementation Plan kind of whole and not fragmented . So we provided you with a revised version of Chapter 10 of the plan that you approved in 2011 , and Appendix D of that plan .

So that ' s the form that this BART determi nation takes .

With that , I ' ll proceed to our witnesses , and I ' ll ask that they ' ll be all sworn in at one time .

And as I indicated , Mr . Flynn , the secretary designate , will give a little more context of a

non technical nature regarding how we got here and why the state supports the alternative that ' s before you ,

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and then we will proceed to our three technical witnesses to provide a summary of their written testimony , how this plan satisfies the regulatory requirements .

So if I could have all the witnesses

- - MR . VOLKERDING : If I can ask a question first . So Mr . Flynn is going to provide non technical testimony . MR . GRANTHAM : That is correct .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you . ( RYAN FLYNN , TED SCHOOLEY , ELIZABETH BISBEY - KUEHN and GI - DONG KIM were duly sworn

or affirmed . ) MR . GRANTHAM : If I could also clarify that

our intent is to have the technical witnesses be examined as a panel

- - cross - examined as a panel , whereas the non technical witness can be cross - examined separately .

MR . VOLKERDING : That works . Thank you . MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you .

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RYAN FLYNN having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY MR . FLYNN : Good morning , Mr . Chair , members of the Board .

It ' s an honor to be here before you this morning . I didn ' t plan on being this close to you , but it is great to see you all again today .

As Mr . Grantham mentioned , I am here to testify as to the policy justifications driving the New Mexico Environment Department and Governor Martinez ' decision to support the revised State Implementation Plan . I will also be providing context about the discussions and thought process that went into our ultimate decision to support a revised State Implement ation Plan . My testimony is non technical . It is policy testimony .

I guess I should formally introduce myself for the record , I guess . First off , my name is Ryan Flynn . I ' m the sec retary designate of the Environment Department . Governor Martinez appointed me in April of this past year .

Before that , I was the general counsel , had

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the honor of coming before this Board on a number of occasions . And it ' s - - again , it ' s a pleasure to be here this morning to talk about this proposal , because I ' ve spent a great deal of time over the past two years , as has this Board , working on this issue .

I wanted to start by providing some background . And I realize for most of you that this is

- - these are issues that you ' re fully aware of , so I ' ll provide a very abbreviated background , and I ' ll be happy upon questions from the Board to elaborate more on any of these issues if I - - if I only briefly touch upon them . But there ' s a couple of key points that I think really need to be emphasized in order to provide the appropriate context for this alternative proposal .

As the Board is aware , in June of 2011 , the state submitted a State Implementation Plan for regional haze to EPA . The NMED ' s plan determined the Best Available Retrofit Technology , BART , for the San Juan Generating Station .

Our plan set the NO x 

## limit for each of the units at San Juan at . 23 pounds using post combustion cont rol technology known as selective non catalytic reduction , S N C R . The state ' s plan would have been far less costly than the

- - the plan that was ultimately

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# 20 adopted by the EPA .

And that occurred in August of 2011 . EPA published a Federal Implementation Plan that established BART for the San Juan Generating Station . EPA ' s plan , as I mentioned , required the installation of selective catalytic reduction technology . The selective S C R , the selective catalytic reduction technology , would cost far more than the state ' s plan , but it would achieve more significant reductions in NO x 

## and greater visibility improvements than the state ' s plan .

When proposing the Federal Implementation Plan , which eventually became the rule , EPA did not specifically comment on the state ' s plan . And EPA ' s statement in the rule is important , I think , to provide

some context for this Board .

EPA said , " We received a regional haze SIP submittal from the state on July 5 th , 2011 . Unfortunately , due to the timing of that submittal , we cannot evaluate it as part of this action .

" We note that this regional haze SIP submittal arrived approximately three

- and

- a - half years after

- - three

- and

- a - half years past the due date of December 17 th , 2007 , and well past January 15 th , 2011 , the date by which we were obligated either to approve a

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# 21 regional haze SIP submission or to promulgate a regional haze Federal Implementation Plan as a result of the 2009 finding of failure to submit the regional haze SIP . "

Now , I spent time reading you that because I think it ' s really important to emphasize that we inherited a bad situation . And when I say " we , " I mean the New Mexico Environment Department , the Martinez administration and many of the members of this Board who

are - - who are forced to consider a plan that the state promulgated well after the deadline , over three

- and

- a - half years past the 2007 deadline .

And I think that was a failure of leadership from the prior administration , and they put the state and they put this region in a very difficult situation .

The state fully supports the plan that we proposed . We believe that the Board ' s decision and the ultimate adoption of that original SIP was a wise one . We wish that the prior administration submitted it on time . We believe that the failure to timely submit a State Implementation Plan put the state at a disadvantage

- - at a severe disadvantage in the lawsuit that was ultimately filed by Governor Martinez , the New Mexico Environment Department against EPA .

In that lawsuit , in the Tenth Circuit , we

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# 22 challenged EPA ' s decision and specifically called into question EPA ' s refusal to consider the plan that was submitted by the state after the work of this Board .

While we believed it was important to fight the EPA on this point , I have to emphasize that we were

aware that it was an up hill battle going in . We were prejudiced by the fact that the state again was three

- and

- a - half years late in making its SIP submittal .

And the discretion that is typically afforded to states under the Clean Air Act to develop implementation plans , such as the SIP that we submitted for BART at the San Juan Generating Station

- - that discretion is

- - is

- - rather , that discretion may be limited by our - - our late submittal .

So EPA felt justified , and there is some case law to support EPA ' s position that because we were late they did not even have to consider the plan that we submitted . I want to talk a little bit about what happened after we filed suit .

I think it ' s important to point out that , again , Governor Martinez and the Environment Department immediately filed suit against EPA for failing to consider t his plan . We felt that the cost impacts that would result from the federal rule would have

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# 23 devastating consequences for the State of New Mexico .

PNM also filed suit against EPA . Notably absent from the discussion was the Attorney General ' s Office . The Attorney General decided not to take any action , not to attempt to fight EPA on their encroachment of our authority to submit State Implementation Plans , chose not to take action against EPA on its decision to impose a very costly federal rule

on the citizens of the State of New Mexico .

Nonetheless , we move forward in the Tenth Circuit and began dialogue with EPA on trying to figure out if there was a way that we could resolve this , save taxpayers the cost of litigation and come up with a n alternative .

We were very pleased with leadership at EPA for recognizing that it was in the best interests of the state and of federal government to work with the state

on a state - driven plan . Even though EPA made it clear that they did not agree with , nor would they approve the plan that we submitted , they were interested in allowing

us the opportunity to come up with our own plan and to allow the state to see if there was a reasonable alternative that we could devise .

So we engaged in extensive discussions with stakeholders , including the Navajo Nation , including New

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# 24 Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers , including local government leaders .

We also worked with environmental groups . There were many national environmental groups and some local environmental groups who were heavily involved in the discussions .

We worked with a variety of technical experts , and we had a series of technical workgroup meetings , evaluating all the potential possibilities for moving forward and developing an alternative .

We had four different public meetings , including three meetings up here in Farmington , in the Four Corners region . We had a public meeting , as well , in Albuquerque . Each of these meetings were dedicated to discussing discrete aspects of the State Implementation Plan such as the economic impacts , the environmental impacts , the impacts on jobs in the region . And we also had a meeting here to discuss just the best process for engaging the public and ensuring that the public had an opportunity to participate in these discussions .

After months of discussions , it became clear that we would not be able to come up with an alternative that would be endorsed by everyone . There were strong

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# 25 feelings on many different sides of this dispute .

I think the

- - there are some environmental groups , most notably the Sierra Club , who has a campaign labeled the War on Coal , and for some environmental groups , anything short of a complete shut down of the San Juan Generating Station by 20 2 2 was not acceptable , and they would not agree to sign off on that .

On the other side , we recognized that a retirement of any unit , of a single unit would have

severe consequences for this region , and we recognize d that it would be very difficult for certain local leaders to agree to any proposal that would entail shutting units down at the San Juan Generating Station .

So there were divergent opinions . But after considering all these opinions , the state ultimately decided that it was in the best interest for New Mexico , for New Mexicans to move forward with a plan that would entail retiring two units and to avoid yet another costly retrofit on an aging coal plant .

Unlike EPA ' s rule , the state ' s proposed alternative provides a long

- term vision that will improve visibility in the region , that will reduce air pollution , that will conserve water , and that will allow the state to take full advantages of existing economic development opportunities in the Four Corners region .

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# 26 Equally important is the fact that the state entered into a bilateral agreement with PNM in order to take care of some of the economic consequences resulting from a two - unit shut down .

That agreement with PNM ensures that there will be no layoffs as a result of unit retirements . It also provides for economic development in the Navajo Nation and in the Four Corners region . It also requires the construction of a natural gas plant in this region , which will provide construction jobs .

Now , this isn ' t to say that the alternative , including the agreement that the state entered with PNM in order to defray some of the economic consequences resulting from this , is

- - is perfect . But it is the best path

- - in our opinion , it is the best path forward in a very difficult situation .

And I ' ll explain now why I believe in more detail it is the best path forward in a - - in what I mentioned was a difficult situation that we all inherited in 2011 , when the Board first took up a state plan submitted by the New Mexico Environment Department .

In the Tenth Circuit , one of the things

- - I want to talk a little bit about some of the factors that the Department considered in the Tenth Circuit and what motivated us to settle .

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# 27

In the Tenth Circuit , what was at issue was the EPA ' s failure to consider the State Implementation Plan before promulgating the federal rule . I do not believe there would have been an outcome in the Tenth Circuit in which the court would have ordered EPA to adopt the State Implementation Plan that was submitted . I think that ' s a really important point .

It wasn ' t - - the court wasn ' t considering two choices , we ' re going to either affirm the federal rule

or we ' re going to adopt the state rule . The court was considering whether EPA had properly followed the Clean Air Act in adopting a federal rule without considering the state ' s rule .

As I mentioned , we were prejudiced by the fact that the state was three

- and

- a - half years late , and EPA repeatedly emphasized this point .

We still believe that the state plan was worth fighting for , and we believe we had a strong case in court . However , if the Tenth Circuit ultimately decided with the state and with PNM , I do believe it is highly unlikely that EPA would have done anything other than go back and review the State Implementation Plan that was submitted and ultimately make the same decision .

So I think the best outcome we could have expected in the Tenth Circuit is for the court to strike

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# 28

down the federal rule and say EPA erred when it failed to consider the State Implementation Plan and then required EPA to go back and engage in another rulemaking , and this time considering the State Implementation Plan .

And EPA very well could have gone back then , created a new record and explained again what they had made clear repeatedly , which was they would not approve the state plan and adopted the same federal proposal all

over again .

And so we would have been delaying , in my opinion , the inevitable . If EPA wanted that federal rule to become a rule , I think they would have eventually been able to make it a federal rule that the state would then be forced to comply with .

I believe the

- - and PNM will be here , and they can testify as to cost considerations . I will not be testifying that

- - providing policy testimony in that regard this morning .

I will , though , testify about kind of the broader contexts in which this dispute was occurring , and specifically the transition away from coal

- fire d generation to other forms of power .

There ' s been a nat ional trend away from coal

- fired generation , and this is

- - this has been

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# 29 driven by a number of different factors , but most notably the impacts and concerns with climate change and with the emissions generated by coal

- fire d electricity .

I believe that here we were - - we were faced with a situation where owners of this entity would have to make a decision about if the federal rule became a rule

- - and as I mentioned , I believe , regardless of what happened in court , eventually we would have been facing the federal rule that we are dealing with

- - that the owners of the San Juan Generating Station would have to make a decision about their long

- term future for coal and their investment in the San Juan Generating Station .

And the choices would have been to invest significantly . I think the bids that PNM received

- - the independent bids that PNM received for the installation of the EPA - mandated technology ranged from $ 750 million to $ 805 million .

And so the owners would have been forced to decide " whether we make a significant investment in this generating station and commit our selves to coal for the long

- term , or do we do something else , do we transition away from coal to something like natural gas . "

I think that given the trends on the national level and the fact that the cost of producing coal

- fired electricity continues to - - to rise , the fact that this

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# 30 dispute is just one and will

- - one chapter in what will be an on going fight against coal

- fired generation , that there will be more lawsuits , more litigation for coal

- fired generating facilities like the San Juan Generating Station , that will continue to add cost to - - to owners who produce coal

- fired generation .

The cheap costs of natural gas , I think that ' s also a factor . The fact that in this

- - in the particular case of the San Juan Generating Station , you have a number of Californian owners , and California actually has a law which prohibits the importation of coal

- fired electricity .

I think these are all factors that the owners would have to consider when determining whether to invest

- - to comply with the federal rule and invest in the San Juan Generating Station for the long term .

I do not believe that there is any scenario in which all four units would remain operational if the federal rule goes into effect . And the state - - we spent a long time considering this . We looked at possible ways forward , including whether there were any other acceptable technologies that were somehow between S N C R and S C R .

And there were not . Really the only

- - the only option for reducing the visibility was to consider

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# 31 unit retirement . And we do think that if the federal rule goes into effect , units will certainly be retired , and that is something that weighed heavily into the state ' s considerations when we were determining a path forward . So considering the fact that we believe units will certainly be retired if the federal rule goes into effect , we started working on what would be

- - what are potential ways to alleviate the economic consequences of unit retirement . This was critical for the Martinez administration , was working with PNM to ensure that there would be no layoffs as a result of plant closure .

Now , if

- - without this State Implementation

- - this revised State Implementation Plan , this agreement that we - - that we reached with EPA and PNM , if units are retired , there will be layoffs in this region . Absent this agreement , I - - I believe there will be layoffs as a result of unit retirements .

With this agreement , there is a guarantee that there will be no layoffs . Now , those jobs , they ' re - - those jobs will go away . There ' s not - - you ' re not - - there ' s someone in the workforce who is not able to go out and get that same job . But at least someone isn ' t losing their job .

As a result of the agreement , we also

- - PNM

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# 32 agreed to facilitate the creation of approximately 350 construction jobs , and that was related to PNM ' s agreement to build a 15 0

- to 200

- megawatt peaking unit in this region , along with a natural gas pipeline .

PNM also agreed to provide $ 1 million for job

re training for the Navajo Nation .

PNM also agreed to provide $ 150 , 000 to the Four Corners Economic Development Group .

And I - - this is critical , because it emphasizes the Martinez administration ' s awareness that this is a difficult situation . Retiring units will have consequences for this region . And it was critical that

we figure out a path forward , something that would protect the region from

- - from the consequences of EPA ' s action and from poor planning by the state years ago . And so that ' s - - that agreement with PNM was a critical piece of our decision

- making in choosing to go forward with a revised State Implementation Plan .

Speaking for the Environment Department , the visibility improvements and the environmental benefits

were also very critical factors in our decision to go forward with this plan . We believe that this

- - the revised State Implementation Plan will provide significant visibility improvements , and our technical

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# 33 witnesses will provide more testimony exactly on this issue . But the

- - as Gi

- Dong Kim will testify , the visibility improvements achieved by the proposed alternative is within half a deciview of those achieved by the federal rule , and that type of difference is not perceptible to the human eye . So under our revised SIP , we will get significant visibility improvements .

Unlike the federal rule , our revised SIP will also produce significant environmental benefits beyond visibility . The proposal will

- - as Liz Bisbey

- Kuehn will testify , the proposal will achieve significant reductions in carbon , sulfur dioxide , mercury and particulates . The proposal will also significantly decrease water consumption at the San Juan Generating Station . From an environmental perspective , we believe the revised State Implementation Plan is superior to the original State Implementation Plan .

PNM will provide

- - as I mentioned , I ' m - - I

am not here to testify as to the costs . I will state that we considered cost and spoke at length during our technical workgroup discussions and our meetings with stakeholders , including PNM , about the costs associated with this proposal . We believe that the proposed

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# 34 alternative is much less expensive than the federal rule . In a state like New Mexico , where the percentage of New Mexicans living below the poverty line is over 20 percent , the cost impacts of federal regulations cannot be over looked . We believe this proposal successfully balances the environmental and economic impacts of energy production in the Four Corners area .

The proposal also allows New Mexico , rather than EPA , to determine the best path forward for the state . Unlike the federal rule , which fully committed New Mexico to coal

- fired electrical generation through 20 5 3 , this proposal is a state plan to allow New Mexico to diversify its energy portfolio and take advantage of cheap er , cleaner , local energy resources , such as natural gas .

And as I testified before , the proposed alternative helps off set the adverse economic consequences flowing from a two - unit retirement .

Our proposal enjoyed broad support . We have the support of local leaders , including Representative Tom Taylor . We have the support of the Navajo Nation . We have the support of local organizations like the Four Corners Economic Development Group .

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# 35

We received

- - I just read today about a resolution adopted by the San Juan County Commission , acknowledging the difficulties that we ' re facing in this situation , but applauding the state plan as a - - as the best path forward in what is a difficult situation .

New Mexico congressional leaders have also endorsed the plan , including Senator Tom Udall .

Shortly after we announced the revised plan

- - the agreement we have reached with EPA and PNM about the revised plan , we had one environmental organization call this the greatest environmental improvement in the state ' s history . I don ' t believe that environment al group actually supports our plan anymore , but they did acknowledge the significant environmental achievements that would be obtained through this plan .

I want to finish by just applauding the Governor ' s leadership in this effort . And I use leadership intentionally . I think there ' s a - - there ' s

a difference between being a politician and being a leader . And leaders make decisions that are in the best interest of their constituents . They ' re honest . They

assess situations , and they make

- - they make decisions that are in the bes t interests of the people they represent . And that ' s exactly what the Martinez

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# 36 administration has done here with this revised State Implementation Plan .

I think it would be easy to make hollow political statements , to point our finger at the EPA and talk about what a terrible situation we ' ve inherited , which we have , and as I testified to . We inherited a terrible situation .

But leaders figure out how do we move forward , how can we position the state to move out of the situation , how do we protect the state from the dire economic consequences that will flow from the rule that has been imposed upon us . That ' s leadership , in my opinion . I am extremely impressed by the leadership that our Governor has demonstrated throughout this process , in

- - first of all , in suing EPA and then in working with EPA to ensure that we were able to try to

come up with a state - driven plan .

So with that , I ' ll stand for any questions from the Board . EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MR . VOLKERDING : Member Fulfer . MR . FULFER : I have just a few questions to clarify in my own mind .

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# 37

Do you know what year the BART requirements

were put into effect for PNM ? Was that somewhere a round 2006 ? Is that correct ?

MR . FLYNN : Mr . Chair , Member Fulfer , I ' m not

aware of when the

- -

MR . FULFER : I have a - - MR . FLYNN : - - the rule became effective . MR . FULFER : - - technical question , and I ' ll try to stay on the policy ones .

MR . FLYNN : Oh , sorry . MR . FULFER : I guess my question is

- - leading to the policy question is was this a mandate from the federal government , and was it funded

- -

MR . FLYNN : Mr . Chair

- - MR . FULFER : - - in some form or fashion that may - - that may help New Mexico with this issue ?

MR . FLYNN : Mr . Chair , Member Fulfer , in

- - it is a mandate in that it ' s a federal rule . I believe the rule was adopted in 19 9 9 . It ' s a federal requirement to adopt a haze plan .

I ' m not aware of the state receiving any funding associated with this

- - with this federal rule .

MR . FULFER : The

- - I guess the National Park Service budgets don ' t - - don ' t provide any money , or as far as the EPA doesn ' t provide any funding for

- -

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# 38

MR . FLYNN : Mr . Chair , Member Fulfer , I ' m not - - I ' m not aware of any funding that ' s provided by EPA for compliance with this rule , and I ' m - - wouldn ' t feel comfortable positing either way as to what ' s the National Park ' s association . I just am not familiar enough with that organization to testify .

MR . FULFER : Was this maybe one of the first

cases filed against EPA , as far as you know , or - -

MR . FLYNN : Mr . Chair , Member Fulfer , no . I believe that the State of Oklahoma challenged EPA on the haze rule . I believe the State of South Dakota

- - North Dakota , rather , also challenged EPA . We were one of a handful of states that did take action against EPA .

Each case was a little bit different . Oklahoma was - - was late , but they were not as late as

we were in terms of their submittal of a State Implementation Plan . We were - - I think Oklahoma submitted theirs in a little less than a year after it

was due , and we were - - ours was submitted , as I mentioned , three

- and

- a - half years after it was due .

MR . FULFER : Was the

- - did the Governor - - she filed the lawsuit , or did it go through the Attorney General ' s Office ?

MR . FLYNN : We consulted

- - Mr . Chair , Member Fulfer , we thought that this was ultimately

- - and as

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# 39

you can see from the result , this was a bi partisan effort , and I applaud our congressional leaders for working with us , including Senator Udall , for endorsing the revised proposal .

So when we started this , we reach ed out to the Attorney General , and we thought that , surely , this would be something that we could all agree on , that this is in the best interest of the State of New Mexico to challenge EPA .

The Attorney General decided not to participate in this lawsuit , and so the Environment Department and Governor Martinez

- - we went at it on our

own and filed suit against EPA ourselves .

But the case is not styled as State of New Mexico v . EPA . It was Martinez v . EPA , and it ' s because the Attorney General specifically declined

- - I was involved in those discussions , and they

- - without providing any reason , they specifically declined participating in the lawsuit .

But this

- - I can ' t speak to what their

- - what went into their decision

- making , but I think the results show that this was - - this was a bipartisan effort , that our leaders were able to put politics aside and do what ' s in the best interest of the State of New Mexico .

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# 40

So I do applaud the Governor , and I applaud

our congressional delegation for recognizing that this is

- - the agreement we reached was in the best interest of the state .

MR . FULFER : Maybe the United States has been through some really hard economic times , and New Mexico is kind of at the bottom of the ladder , that being one of the poorer states , and the

- - the San Juan generation plant , it ' s probably one of the hard

- - hardest economic

areas . The

- - this affects so many people in New Mexico , its

- - because it seems like the Public Service in New Mexico covers - - provides electricity for so many of the largest populated areas in New Mexico .

And so I guess , to me , the Attorney General

- - this seems like it would have been an opportunity to step up and really protect the people of New Mexico . It

seems like we ' re being pushed down to - - somewhat to accept these things , but I really have to applaud , I guess , the Governor and your staff for stepping up and filing this lawsuit , and appreciate that part of what you ' re doing .

MR . FLYNN : Thank you . MR . FULFER : Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Other Board member questions ?

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# 41 Chair Peacock . MS . PEACOCK : Mr . Flynn , you ' ve out line d what would happen if the Board doesn ' t approve this SIP .

Could you go through what ' s going to happen in the court action if the Board approves this SIP ?

MR . FLYNN : Mr . Chair , Member Peacock , that ' s

a great question .

There are a lot of contingencies that the settlement is

- - requires in order for it to ultimately be fulfilled , and the first step is coming to this Board . And if we were to get approval from this Board , the next step would be to - - not for the Environment Department - - I don ' t anticipate that we will participate in the

- - in the hearing before the Public Regulation Commission , but there will be a PRC action , because that would be required in order to close units at the station .

So that action will need to proceed . Then after the PRC action concludes , if that action is successful , the

- - the

- - well , simultaneously with the PRC action , if this Board were to approve our revised SIP , we would submit that to EPA , who would initiate a rulemaking at the federal level to supersede the current rule that ' s i n place .

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# 42

I don ' t know if supersede is the right word . They would eventually

- - if they

- - if we submitted this rule , EPA would submit the rule for public comment and hopefully approve and adopt our revised SIP , and that would become a federal rule , which would then replace the current rule . EPA , I believe , would withdraw the current rule and replace that with the new rule that ' s adopted . At that point , after the EPA adopts a new rule that is consistent with the revised SIP - - again , I ' m not - - I ' m not assuming an outcome , so I - - I ' m not presuming that the Board is just going to approve our proposal . But if the Board were inclined to approve our proposal and EPA were inclined to adopt that revised proposal and the PRC does approve the plan moving forward , at that point , the intention is for PNM , the New Mexico Environment Department , Governor Martinez and for EPA to move to dismiss the lawsuit that ' s been filed in federal court .

Now , I believe that some intervenors may oppose that . I - - based on discussions

- - well , let me

reverse that .

I do not believe that the Tenth Circuit would continue to move forward with the case if

- - if PNM ,

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# 43

Governor Martinez , NMED and EPA moved to dismiss . I believe the Tenth Circuit

- - even in the face of objections , they would ultimately dismiss that lawsuit .

So that ' s - - that ' s kind of a general out line of what I think would happen moving forward . And I realize there ' s a lot of moving pieces here , and part of the reason why our - - the settlement agreement Term Sheet we reached with EPA is drafted in the way it is , is in recognition of the fact that we cannot pre judge out comes . There are a lot of contingencies that are beyond the control of the state , of EPA and of PNM that need to come to fruition in order to actually execute this plan . So we couldn ' t sign a settlement agreement and say everything is done , because we know we have to go back to this Board , we know that we have to go to PRC , and we know the federal government has to engage in rule making , and we couldn ' t pre judge the outcome of any of those proceedings .

But if those things were to come to fruition , I do believe the Tenth Circuit would dismiss the case .

MS . PEACOCK : And that ' s why it says it has no binding effect in the Term Sheet ?

MR . FLYNN : Yes . It ' s because the

- - because

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# 44

we ' re dealing with rulemakings , and for

- - for the Environment Department , it ' s not actually as - - it ' s a different issue , because we come to this Board for

- - we propose a rule , and then you ' re ultimately the decision

- making authority on our rules .

For EPA , they don ' t have a board that they report to . They engage in their own rulemaking . So if EPA were to sign a settlement agreement before actually noticing and receiving public comments and considering those public comments , then that would potentially jeopardize the

- - the rule itself . They would have predetermined an outcome without actually going through the public notice and considering public comment .

So I believe that the parties were very clear that the Term Sheet was not binding in order to make it clear that we were not going to - - we had not made a deal outside of the public arena and reached

- - reached the deal that

- - without considering public comment .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . And then what ' s the Department of Justice approval that is required under

- -

MR . FLYNN : The Department of Justice is

- - represents the EPA . So the Department of Justice in moving forward , the

- - in order to dismiss

- - the D O J represents the EPA in the Tenth Circuit case , so EPA is

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# 45

the client . But I don ' t - - I don ' t believe that approval would be difficult . The client controls the objection of litigation , including whether or not to settle . So I believe that would be merely a formality .

But the D O J in the Tenth Circuit action

- - they

- - they ' re not participating in the federal rulemaking or in any of the technical decision

- making , but they would be

- - as the attorney representing the EPA , they would be submitting a motion to dismiss , if we reached that point , along with us , the state and PNM . The D O J would be the attorney submitting that on behalf of EPA . MS . PEACOCK : Okay .

And then you talked a lot about missing the 12 / 17 / 07

- - yeah , you might want a copy of the Term Sheet

- - missing the 12 / 17 / 07 deadline .

What

- - what is to prevent - - or what ' s your

assurances that that ' s not going to be the same argument with the new SIP ?

MR . FLYNN : I ' m sorry . I don ' t understand your question .

MS . PEACOCK : On the 12 / 17 / 07 deadline that

was missed before , what assurances do you have or what ' s in the Term Sheet that assures us that that ' s not going to be the same argument again , that this new SIP hasn ' t

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# 46

met the deadline of 12 / 17 / 07 ?

MR . FLYNN : Well , I think , you know , the fact that the EPA signed this Term Sheet

- - I mean , that question goes to whether the EPA entered into good faith negotiations with the state and PNM in order to solve this outcome .

I think , you know , we - - in order to reach a settlement agreement , you have to trust that people are participating in good faith . And as difficult as it may be for me to say , I trust that

- - in this case , I trust the EPA means it when they committed to working with us and to adopting the Term Sheet .

I think the question is

- - is a completely fair one , and I recognize that , you know , EPA could at

some point turn around and say no and put us with the federal rule again .

And I think that would

- - like I said , I think if

- - if that were the case , that would be

- - that would be devastating for this region . I think it would be terrible for the state . I think the costs associated with the federal rule would have statewide impact , have

a significant statewide impact .

And I think the local impacts of the federal rule , a bsent

- - there is no agreement if

- - this agreement we have is the only structure in place that

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# 47 actually saves jobs , that actually produces some jobs from this terrible situation . If this agreement falls through , there are no assurances . Jobs , I believe , will be lost . Costs will be incurred for the entire state .

So I think this is the best path forward . I believe the EPA participated in good faith in our discussions . I believe they are committed to working with us and in seeing this Term Sheet ultimately become the federal rule .

But you ' re right , there is some trust involved . MS . PEACOCK : Has the EPA seen a draft of the SIP and provided any informal comments or - -

MR . FLYNN : Mr . Chair , Member Peacock , yes . We have been actively working with EPA for

- - since we signed this Term Sheet and have been engaged as early

- -

as recently as 7 : 30 this morning , there was a conference call between the State of New Mexico and some of the people at this table and PNM and EPA , and I believe the

- - there ' s - - I believe there has been a commitment from EPA to working with the state to ensure that this

comes to fruition .

I would also point out that one of the

- - one of the powerful statements that

- - that I saw from this process was that the new EPA administrator ,

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# 48 Administrator Gina McCarthy

- - during her confirmation hearing , she actually touted this

- - this Term Sheet and this agreement as - - as an example of how they can achieve positive environmental benefits and work with states to resolve disputes .

I ' m not sure exactly

- - I forget what her exact language was , but she was involved in this before she

- - like me , she occupied a different position at the time , and she was involved in this . She was the director of air and radiation at the time . She was ultimately one of the key decision

- makers signing off on this going forward . And in response to questioning from Senator Udall during her confirmation hearing , she endorsed this plan moving forward .

So I think that ' s a very positive sign that there is

- - there is support from the top down at EPA for this Term Sheet .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . Back to the Term Sheet , one more question . In section 1 . c , it says , " The dates that follow with an asterisk in paragraph d . will be revise d accordingly if the installation date extends past January 31 st , 20 16 , due to delay in EPA ' s SIP approval . "

How does that work ? Is it day

- by

- day extension ? Month

- by

- month ? What kinds of extensions

- -

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# 49 they ' re not out lined in the Term Sheet . What was the intention ? MR . FLYNN : If you just give me a second to find exactly where you are at , I can look at it before I

answer here .

It ' s in section 1 ? MS . PEACOCK : 1 . c , the last sentence - - MR . FLYNN : First page ? MS . PEACOCK : - - first page , and it ' s talking about 1 . d . MR . FLYNN : Okay .

Okay . This is one of the

- - Mr . Chair , Member Peacock

- - well , first of all , Member Peacock , you kind of honed in on some - - some interesting issues that you ' re able to - - you ' re able to detect here .

This was the subject of quite a bit of discussion , obviously , and I think PNM could

- - would be in a better position to talk about this specific provision . So I ' ll provide my input , but I would encourage you to perhaps ask the same question to one of PNM ' s witnesses . I ' ll put them on the spot , as well .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . MR . FLYNN : But this is

- - this is one of the joys of negotiating with EPA .

I think the

- - our preference would have been

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# 50

to have a clear guidance as , you know , day

- for

- day or a firmer commitment for what the extensions would look like . EPA would not budge on that . They did agree they ' d provide us with a comfort letter . They have routinely committed that " We will work with you to

ensure that the deadlines are - - are reasonable and that they ' re - - that we ' re not putting anyone in any difficult situations . "

However , they

- - one of their policy justifications , I believe , was that they did not want to start setting arbitrary dates that couldn ' t then be met . So they preferred language that was more - - that was

more vague .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . MR . FLYNN : I could say , you know , from the state ' s perspective

- - hopefully PNM can speak to their feelings about this

- - I think we would prefer more certainty in that language , but we ultimately have to - - to move forward , and it was not a - - it was not a deal

- breaker for us , the language that we ultimately agreed to accept here . So we moved forward with it .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . And then following along that same theme , it looks like this Term Sheet was done on t he fly , to me ,

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# 51

and so when you get to - -

MR . FLYNN : No , it was not . MS . PEACOCK : No ? Okay . MR . FLYNN : Mr . Chair , Member Peacock , I - - MS . PEACOCK : By the way , I ' m still Chair , Mr . Ryan . MR . VOLKERDING : I ' m just Hearing Officer .

MR . FLYNN : Okay . I was going to provide a witty response , but I ' m not going to . I swear , it was funny . Madam Chair , Hearing Officer Volkerding , members of the Board , I can assure you that this was not done on the fly . I think that there ' s intention when you ' re - - you know , I think you need to understand the context in which we were negotiating here . And I realize you weren ' t there , but I was .

A lot of work was put into this document . And I think from the state and from PNM ' s perspective , we would

- - we would prefer a document that has as much specificity as possible . From EPA ' s perspective , they would prefer to have a document that has as little specificity as possible .

So there was a constant back

- and

- forth in trying to ensure that the language was acceptable to meet the state ' s needs , acceptable to meet PNM ' s needs ,

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# 52

but agreeable so that EPA would actually sign it and approve it .

This was not done on the fly . This was done during months of negotiations . Numerous drafts were exchanged . I can tell you that we proposed a very different

- looking document that was submitted by the state as - - as an initial talking point and point of discussion . The document that we submitted wasn ' t - - had much more detail in it .

The EPA refused to work from that starting point , and this

- - this Term Sheet is consistent with other term sheets that the EPA has entered which are

more general in nature .

And the example that EPA routinely referred us to was the settlement agreement they achieved with the State of Oklahoma and the Term Sheet they agreed there , which I believe was two pages long , as well .

And I think in defense of EPA , they sit in the

same position that this Board does when you ' re acting as rule makers and adopting

- - making law , and so there is a public process that needs to occur , and they could not definitively commit to certain things and

- - and actually by way of a settlement agreement promulgate a rule outside of that public process that they ' re legally required to engage in .

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# 53

So I think for that reason the Term Sheet is

more general in nature , but

- - and it ' s something different

- - it ' s not something I - - I come from a background that ' s probably similar to yours , Member Peacock , where you ' re - - if you ' re negotiating in litigation , negotiating a settlement agreement , you want to tie down every sing le loose end , and you would never have a settlement agreement that ' s three pages . Usually they ' re 5 3 pages or 15 3 pages .

So this is something that ' s very different , but it ' s - - the reason for the difference is because

we ' re operating in an area where there are multiple rulemakings that need to occur , and we need to be mindful of the fact that the public has a right and is legally required to - - they ' re legally entitled to participate in the ultimate outcome .

And so I think for that reason , while we can agree that this is the best path forward , and we believe this is an approvable plan , we could not commit definitively that this is the plan that would ultimately be adopted .

I couldn ' t speak for this Board and say this Board would adopt this plan . EPA couldn ' t say that " We will definitely adopt this plan . " But I do not think any of us would sign this if we didn ' t think it was

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# 54 approvable and ultimately going to be the best path forward . MS . PEACOCK : And my comment on the Term Sheet leads into the SIP at the end of the SIP .

And by the way , I want to compliment the Department . The writing is the best document that we ' ve

seen . That ' s my opinion . The SIP document was incredible , until I get to 10 . 5 , which is a cut and paste of the Term Sheet into the document .

And I ' ll ask the question this way , since

we ' re not in deliberations , but if during deliberations the Board decides to add some headers and better defining the terms , so that it ' s more understandable

- - well , would the Department - - I ' ll ask PNM the same question

- - would you prefer that we keep it as a cut and paste of the Term Sheet , putting it into the SIP , or would you welcome the Board trying to clarify it with headers and definitions ?

MR . FLYNN : Madam Chair , Hearing Officer Volkerding , this is a very difficult question to answer again . I would emphasize that we - - the effort it took to actually agree to this Term Sheet . So I would strongly encourage the Board to exercise restraint in how it deals with the Term Sheet , and if it were

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# 55 inclined to move forward with the revised SIP , I would encourage the Board not to make any substantive changes to the document .

Formatting changes , that ' s - - absolutely no problem with that , but I would hate to see this agreement - - I would hate to see this agreement fall apart , because we ' ve got an agreement in place , a lot of effort has been put into this document and into a path forward , and I would be very nervous about making changes to this document which would then allow EPA to say " No , we ' re not willing to agree to this anymore . "

I mean , they ' ve committed to this from the top , they ' ve committed to moving forward . I think it would be

- - I just

- - I think it would be

- - could be bad faith for EPA - - for us to do what we ' ve all agreed

we ' re going to do and then for EPA to back out of this agreement . I think it would be

- - it would

- - I think it would be a very unwise political decision , as well .

So I - - and I really do not believe you ' d be able to do that . I would hate to see us give anyone an opportunity to - - to move away from this agreement and would be fearful tha t a substantive change to this document would allow

- - allow EPA off the hook .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . I don ' t have any other questions .

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# 56

MR . VOLKERDING : I had a couple . Most , actually , were asked by Member Fulfer and Chair Peacock .

What guarantees are there that PNM will abide by their portion of the agreement to not lay people off , to provide funding to the various organizations you mentioned , et cetera ?

MR . FLYNN : Madam Chair , Hearing Officer Volkerding , the Term Sheet counts as a - - it doesn ' t actually speak to this bilateral agreement that PNM would enter with the state . It would be

- - that agreement would be

- - will be memorialized , and PNM would breach that agreement if they were to - - to back out of any of the commitments they made .

So I believe there would be legal consequences after we memorialized that agreement for PNM if they

were to back out . I really can ' t comment on it beyond that . I think you will have PNM here , and they ' ll be under oath , and I would encourage you to ask them that question directly .

I believe PNM , like EPA , has entered these discussions in good faith . I believe they are fully committed to seeing this both Term Sheet and the agreement that they ' ve made with the state come to a successful outcome . So I have no doubt that PNM will honor its commitment .

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# 57

MR . VOLKERDING : And I ' m going to try and phrase this as a question so it ' s not just me testifying .

Do you know how many states missed the December 17 th , 2007 , deadline , since that seems to be an issue for EPA ?

MR . FLYNN : Madam Chair , Mr . Hearing Officer , I believe that 36 states missed that deadline .

MR . VOLKERDING : Correct . MR . FLYNN : I believe that

- - well , I also believe that

- - I ' m trying to be as diplomatic as possible here since we all have this great settlement agreement . I find it ironic that EPA , who frequently

- - I think I kind of understand where your question is coming from . I think I understand where your question is coming from . And there was no small amount of irony in the fact that EPA was wagging its finger at the state for missing a deadline when it does not appear that there have been many deadlines that EPA is able to keep

on their own . So I do find that to be extremely ironic .

However , you know , you ' ve got to take the case

on the merits and deal with what the law says , and one of the reasons why PNM - - I ' m sorry - - why EPA and the state are in this situation is because EPA routinely

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# 58 missed deadlines , and as a result of citizen suits , they

were required to take action .

And so I - - you know , I think

- - I think I understand the point you were making , and I would wholeheartedly agree that I do find it somewhat ironic that EPA repeatedly emphasized our failure to meet our deadline in their

- - as one of their grounds for not

even considering the state SIP .

But I do think that , you know , we - - in the legal world , you know , you operate in somewhat of a - - a

vacuum , if you will , in that you consider the law and the merits , and I think , you know , the case law and the court would have been considering what ' s the plain language of the Clean Air Act .

And the EPA and Department of Justice were very clear in pointing out our failure to meet that deadline as grounds for EPA exercising its authority to impose a plan on us , because , you know , here they

- - the beauty of the Clean Air Act is it ' s an elegantly designed statute . It sets standards and then leaves it up to states to come up with ways to meet those standards . So I - - as someone wh o , you know , is a strong supporter of states ' rights , that ' s exactly the type of statutory framework I would support and favor .

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# 59

I think that , you know , EPA here , though

- - you know , they certainly

- - while they certainly violated the spirit of the Clean Air Act by imposing that federal rule upon us without considering it , they

were arguing that they were legally justified in doing that because we were late .

And I don ' t think that

- - that was something

- - I don ' t want to go into too much of our legal strategy , but that was something that was very disconcerting . It was a very difficult fact that Mr . Grantham and I had to contend with in the Tenth Circuit . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

That ' s all I have . Mr . Grantham , any - - are there

- - is he

- - he ' s not technical , so he ' s not open to cross . Okay ?

MR . FLYNN : No . I am open to cross . MR . VOLKERDING : For other

- - for PNM , et cetera ? MR . FLYNN : For anybody .

MR . GRANTHAM : Right . Anybody who is present here can cross - examine .

I will have a couple

- - I will have a couple additions when you ' re through with cross - examination .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay .

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# 60

Let me ask PNM first if they have any questions for cross .

MR . ALVIDREZ : We have no questions of the

sec retary . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you .

Mr . Gould ? MR . GOULD : Thank you . I have a few questions . Do I go to the podium , or - - MR . VOLKERDING : If you could , so that the court reporter can hear you . CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR . GOULD : Q. Good morning . I don ' t know if this is on or not . It doesn ' t sound like it .

Good morning , Mr . Hearing Examiner , members of the Board . Thank you for this opportunity .

I just have a few clarification questions . Mr . Flynn , I appreciate your testimony . I understand the difficulty that the Department was under , having participated in some of the settlement negotiations , and I know they were difficult .

But I do want to ask you a few clarifying

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# 61 questions about some of the side agreements .

You had mentioned in part of your testimony that there is a side agreement to build certain amounts of gas - fired generation at the current San Juan site and also another related agreement to build a pipeline

- - a gas pipeline to that new plant .

Do you remember

- - remember that testimony ? A. Yes . Q. Would you agree with me that the decision of which plan t to approve if this plan is approved

- - which plan t - - replacement plan t is not within the jurisdiction of this Board ? A. Yes . Q. And is that jurisdiction about what replacement power plant will be built or what plants will be built

- - is exclusively within the jurisdiction of the Public Regulation Commission ? A. I believe that ' s correct . Q. Okay . And additionally , would you also agree with me that the decision about allowing

- - whether to allow PNM to abandon San Juan Units 2 and 3 is also a matter within the commission

- - the New Mexico Public Regulation Commission jurisdiction ? A. I would

- - I believe that

- - that is true .

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# 62

I would have to point out I am an attorney , I

am not a - - we ' re generally familiar with the process going forward . I ' m not a utility attorney . I ' m not really sure what role FERC would play in this process . But I do generally believe that these are issues that the PRC will be considering and ultimately be the decision

- maker on , on these issues . Yes . Q. Okay . And would

- - if you know , would the Department object to have it

- - having specific language inserted in whatever decision this Board makes specifically acknowledging the jurisdiction of the commission to make abandonment decisions and also new plant certification decisions for PNM as a regulated utility ? A. I would

- - again , I think I generally agree with your - - with

- - I generally agree that these are issues that are - - that will be decided by the PRC and they are within the jurisdiction of the PRC .

I wouldn ' t - - I would defer to my legal counsel in terms of exactly what the Department would be willing to or to not agree to as far as specific language along those lines . Q. Fair enough . Thank you . Mr . Hearing Examiner , those are all the questions I have at this point .

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# 63

Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . Are there any other members in the audience who would like to ask any cross - examining questions ?

With no hands , thank you , Mr . Flynn . Appreciate your time .

MR . FLYNN : Thank you very much . MR . VOLKERDING : If it ' s okay with the Board , I would like to take a short break , so we can look at the sign

- in sheet on - - and get a feel for how much public comment may be here , and

- - Mr . Grantham , I ' m sorry . MR . GRANTHAM : I ' m sorry , Mr . Hearing Officer .

If it ' s okay with the Board , there ' s a couple of additional comments - -

MR . VOLKERDING : Oh , please . MR . GRANTHAM : - - I would like to make . MR . VOLKERDING : Yeah . Let ' s do those first , then . MR . GRANTHAM : They ' ll be quick , and I was going to request a break , as well .

And I think these are in relation to legal questions to the witness . And I think it ' s appropriate , because he is an attorney and he was the general counsel during those negotiations , but they ' re legal questions ,

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# 64

so I think that it ' s also appropriate that I can respond to those , as well .

And in terms of the question about the possibility of EPA determining that this submittal is also late and dis approving it on that ground , I would point out that this Term Sheet is before the court . We - - the parties are in mediation in the Tenth Circuit .

The court is well aware of this Term Sheet , and that would

- - the court would

- - you know , to put it mildly , would look very unfavorably on that kind of bad faith by EPA , which I have no - - absolutely no reason to believe that EPA has any such intent .

And I think it would be arbitrary and capricious for EPA to change course having signed this Term Sheet .

In regard to whether the

- - whether it would be appropriate to kind of wordsmith the provisions or clarify the provisions of the Term Sheet as they are incorporated into the SIP , I would echo Mr . Flynn ' s

concern with this being a negotiated document , and even though there may be some vagaries in it , some of those vagaries might have been intentional in order to reach settlement .

And I ' d also point out that , as you ' ll hear testimony , there will be permit revisions to incorporate

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# 65

the terms of the Term Sheet , at least those terms of the Term Sheet that actually impose operational requirements

on PNM , and that will be an opportunity to provide any

more clarity to - - that ' s necessary to make those enforceable .

So if the Board has comments that we can take back and consider in formulating those permit conditions , that would be helpful , but I would encourage the Board to - - other than perhaps some headings or something of that nature , to as much as possible

- - assuming that the Board ultimately approves the plan , to leave the Term Sheet requirements kind of intact .

And those are the only comments that I wanted to make . Thank you .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you . So we ' ll take a 15

- minute break . ( Proceedings in recess from 10:38 a.m. to 10:52 a.m. ) MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . We will go back on the record . I had a question on public comment . There

were a number of people who had signed up on the list , and if I could get a show of hands of who is from out of town that wanted to make public comment .

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# 66 Okay . So - - all right . Two of you . Mr . Gould , you plan to stay for the duration , though ; is that correct ?

MR . GOULD : Mr . Hearing Examiner , yes . I ' ll be both here today and tomorrow , however long it takes .

MR . VOLKERDING : And Mr . Henke ? MR . HENKE : I would like to depart no later than 3 o ' clock .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . My plan is to do one session of public comment before we break for lunch , and so I will have you start with that one , and then we ' ll do a couple other people , as well . Will that work ?

Okay . Thank you . Yes , sir . MR . BENALLY : I also have public comment , but I need to leave by noon , also .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . We will at least get the two of you in prior to lunch .

Any other logistical issues we need to cover before I turn it back over to Mr . Grantham ?

Okay . Mr . Grantham . MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you , Mr . Hearing Officer , Madam Chair , members of the Board .

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# 67

The witnesses have already been sworn in , so I ' ll proceed with our first witness , Ms . Liz Bisbey

- Kuehn . ELIZABETH BISBEY - KUEHN having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . GRANTHAM : Q. Ms . Kuehn , please state your name for the record . A. Elizabeth Bisbey

- Kuehn . Q. And where are you employed ? A. I ' m acting technical services manager of the Permitting Section at the Air Quality Bureau , and I ' ve been with the Department since 2006 . Q. And can you describe your educational background . A. I have a bachelor of science degree in environmental studies from the University of Iowa , and I attended graduate school at the University of Kentucky for soil science . Q. And is what has been marked Exhibit 11 a a current copy of your resume ? A. Yes , it is . Q. And what was your role with respect to the

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BART determination for the San Juan Generating Station ? A. I was assigned this project in 2006 , and I conducted the technical review of the original BART application submittal , as well as all up dated submittals made to the Department . This up date includes the April , 2013 submittal that was made to the Department which contained the terms and conditions found in a tentative agreement between the New Mexico Environment Department , the EPA and PNM as part of the Term Sheet . Q. And is that Term Sheet what has been marked NMED Exhibit 5 ? A. Yes . Q. And the April , 2013 BART submittal from PNM , is that what has been marked NMED Exhibit 6 ? A. Yes . Q. And with respect to that Term Sheet , can you describe , kind of in the most fundamental terms , what it provides for ? A. The Term Sheet provides the technical details and conditions related to the shut down of Units 2 and 3 , as well as the requirement to install selective

non catalytic reduction on the remaining Units 1 and 4 .

The Term Sheet also contains a requirement to conduct testing on the S N C R to determin e if a lower emission rate is achievable for that technology .

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# 69

The Term Sheet also contains a lower SO 2 

## emission limit . That emission limit is . 10 pounds per million B T U . Q. And did you provide written testimony for this proceeding ? A. Yes . Q. And is that what has been marked NMED Exhibit 11 ? A. Yes , it is . Q. And do you have any changes or corrections to your testimony ? A. No . I have no changes or corrections to my pre filed written testimony . Q. Then do you adopt your testimony at Exhibit 11

as your testimony under oath here today ? A. Yes , I do . Q. With respect to the BART analysis in Chapter 10 and Appendix D , do you have any corrections to that ? A. Yes . I did identify typographical and transcriptive errors in both Chapter 10 and Appendix D . Those related

- - were related to typographical errors which were then carried through in numerous places in the document . Those errors did not affect the under lying modeling analysis . Q. And did the Department prepare an exhibit to

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# 70 provide more detail on that

- - the nature of those

errors ? A. Yes . Exhibit 16 contains a detailed description of the specific location of those errors in both documents .

MR . GRANTHAM : I will submit that exhibit to the Board at this time .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Q. ( BY MR . GRANTHAM ) Turning to your written testimony , you testified that the NO x 

## BART determination for the San Juan Generating Station was performed in accordance with EPA guidelines .

Can you briefly describe the steps of a BART analysis as provided for in the guidelines ? A. Yes . The guidelines prescribe five separate steps that must be conducted for each case - by

- case BART analysis for each BART subject source .

Step 1 requires states to identify all available retrofit control technologies that may be installed at the BART subject source .

Step 2 requires states to eliminate all technically infeasible control technologies .

Step 3 requires states to conduct a control effectiveness determination . This is estimating the amount of reduction of pollutant that could be expected

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# 71

to occur from the installation of a certain control technology .

Step 4 requires an impacts assessment . The impacts assessment is to determine the cost of compliance for each technology , the energy impacts from the operation of that technology , the visibility

- -

excuse me - - the non air quality environmental impacts from installation and operation of each control technology .

And the fifth step is the visibility impacts assessment , which determines the visibility improvement that can be expected from the installation of each of the remaining control technologies . Q. And can you describe how the Department conducted the five

- step BART analysis for San Juan Generating Station , the five

- step process you just described , focusing particularly on the new information contained in the 2013 up date ? A. Steps 1 and 2 , the identification of available

- - all available retrofit control technologies and , Step 2 , the elimination of technically infeasible control technologies , did not change from the 2011 analysis . Step 3 , the control effectiveness determination , did change based on the terms and

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# 72 conditions of the

- - of the Term Sheet and the April 13 th , 2013 , submittal to the Department that we zeroed out the emissions from shut down of Units 2 and 3 .

Step 4 , the impacts analysis , also changed considerably based on the April , 2013 submittal . The cost of compliance changed based on new vendor

- supplied cost estimates for both the four S C R installation , the

- - and the previous state SIP , the four S N C R installation , as well as the two S N C R installation , two - unit shut down scenario .

The energy impacts analysis also changed based

on the April , 2013 submittal . With the shutdowns of Units 2 and 3 , the energy required to operate any control equipment on those units was effectively zeroed out . The non air quality environmental impacts assessment was changed substantially from the April

- - the original state analysis based on the April , 2013 BART submittal .

There were significant reductions in NO x 

## emissions resulting from the shutdown of Units 2 and 3 . There were also significant reductions in water use in solid waste disposal , in particulate matter emissions resulting from the handling and processing of activated coal

- - I ' m sorry - - excuse me - - activated carbon ,

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coal , fly ash .

The fourth factor that we considered in the impacts analysis is the remaining useful life analysis . Because of the

- - because the remaining useful life of Units 1 and 4 extend beyond the lifetime of the control , that did not impact

- - or have an impact on the control technology applied to Units 1 and 4 .

The fifth step , the visibility impacts assessment , also changed substantially based on the April , 2013 submittal . As Gi

- Dong will testify to later , there were significant improvements in visibility improvement over what the state had submitted initially in 2011 . The visibility improvements compared very closely with the EPA ' s Federal Implementation Plan .

Those were the main changes . Q. Thank you . And based on that analysis , can you briefly summarize the key quantitative findings the Department considered in determining that the state alternative

- - the state alternative being the two - units shut down and two - unit S N C R scenario

- - that that scenario constitutes BART for the San Juan Generating Station . A. There are numerous reductions in emissions resulting from the two S N C R installation and two - unit shut down scenario , the most significant being the

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# 74 reduction in NO x 

## emissions of almost 13 , 000 tons .

There are also significant reductions in the amount of raw material usage used at the facility . The limestone required to control SO 2 

## is being reduced by approximately 90 , 000 tons per year . Activated carbon is reduced by approximately 130 tons per year . The coal combusted in these four units is being reduced by approximately half , 50 percent .

The number

- - the amount of diesel used in the start - up of the emissions is also being reduced by approximately 50 percent . The amount of water usage is being reduced by approximately 50 percent . The amount of solid waste and fly ash disposal is being reduced by approximately 50 percent . Q. And could you speak to the reductions in the other pollutants other than NO x 

## , comparing the state scenario with the four S C R scenario . A. All those

- - although these are not visibility pollutants , we do see significant reductions in other pollutants with the shutdown of Units 2 and 3 .

There will be approximately 50 percent reduction in the volatile organic compound emissions , 50 percent reduction in the mercury and non mercury metal pollutants , up to 50 percent reduction in acid gas emissions , as I mentioned before , approximately

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# 75 50 percent in particulate matter emissions .

There will also be a 67 percent in SO 2 

## emissions . Q. Thank you . Earlier you mentioned some corrections to Chapter 10 and Appendix D , and the Board has them before them in Exhibit 16 .

Does any of those corrections have any effect

on the ultimate conclusion that the state reached in determining BART ? A. No . Those typographical and transcriptive

errors did not affect the Department ' s determination . The change in the deciview is less than a quarter of a deciview , and because one deciview is imperceptible to the human eye , this is far short of something that would be perceptible to a human observer . Q. Okay . And did the Department receive any public comments on the proposed SIP ? A. The Department received public comment from the National Park Service , as well as the Bureau of Land Management . Q. And are those contained in what has been marked NMED Exhibit 8 for the BLM and NMED Exhibit 9 for the Park Service ?

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A. Yes . Q. And with respect to what has been marked NMED Exhibit 14 , which is the Department ' s response to those Park Service comments , were you involved in the preparation of that document ? A. Yes . I drafted all the responses to those public comments , except for those related to the visibility impacts analysis , which Gi

- Dong drafted . Q. And finally , was public notice of this hearing given in accordance with applicable requirements , including 20 . 1 . 1 NMAC ? A. Yes . Q. And are the notices of publication

- - are those what has been marked NMED Exhibit 7 ? A. Yes . Q. Do you have anything additional you would like to add at this point ? A. No . Thank you . Q. Thank you . I have no more questions for this witness . It ' s my understanding we ' re - - we ' ll proceed and then have cross - examination by a panel .

MR . VOLKERDING : Correct . MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you .

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TED SCHOOLEY having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . GRANTHAM : Q. Good morning , Mr . Schooley . Can you please state your name for the record . A. My name is Ted Schooley . Q. And where are you employed ? A. I ' m employed as a programs manager at the Air Quality Bureau , and I ' ve been employed at the Air Quality Bureau since May , 2001 . Q. And can you describe your educational background . A. I have a bachelor of science degree in math and physics and a bachelor of science degree in mechanical engineering , and I ' m a registered professional engineer in the State of Louisiana . Q. And is a current copy of your resume included at Exhibit 10 a ? A. This is correct . Q. And what was your role with respect to the NO x 

## BART determination for San Juan Generating Station ? A. During the process of determining if any viable alternatives to the BART Federal Implementation

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Plan were possible , I ' ve been involved in the public out reach process .

I was also a member of the technical workgroup , and I was involved in negotiations between Public Service Company of New Mexico , the Environmental Protection Agency and New Mexico Environment Department , which resulted in the term - - which resulted in an agreed

- upon approach to - - as laid out in the Term Sheet . Q. And did you submit a written

- - any written testimony for this proceeding ? A. Yes , I did . Q. And is that at Exhibit 10 ? A. Yes , it is . Q. And do you have any changes or corrections to that testimony ? A. None . Q. And do you adopt Exhibit 10 as your testimony under oath here today ? A. I do . Q. And in that testimony , you describe in some - -

some detail the performance testing provisions that are in the Term Sheet .

In general terms , can you describe what the purpose of those performance testing provisions is .

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A. Section 1 . c of the Term Sheet requires that

- - the installation of S N C R emission control technology at the San Juan Generating Station Units 1 and 4 such that these units are limited to a NO x 

## emission rate of 0 . 23 pounds per million B T U on a daily rolling 30

- day average , and

- - basis .

And the purpose of the performance testing under section 1 . d of the Term Sheet is to ascertain whether the

- - a lower NO x 

## emission level is

- - can be achieved , and if so , make that a requirement . Q. And can you describe in general terms what the testing program actually consists of . A. The required testing is in three parts . The first part is the S N C R performance testing , and as part of the S N C R process , ammonia is injected into the gas stream , which results in lower NO x 

## emissions . The purpose of this test is to find an optimal amount of ammonia to be injected into the gas stream that will minimize these NO x 

## emissions . And so this ammonia injection rate will be the target ed injection rate that ' s us ed in the third part of this testing program . The second test is the fuel performance testing , and PNM can possibly reduce NO x 

## emissions by

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pre treating coal that it uses as its fuel .

And the purpose of this fuel performance testing is to - - protocol is to determine

- - or to demonstrate that this pre treatment coal technology does not , one , measurably increase NO x 

## emissions , and , two , adversely impact the over all performance of the units .

If both of these are not adversely impacted , the treated fuel shall be used in the third phase of this testing .

The third phase of the testing is the long

- term performance evaluation period .

The purpose of the long

- term performance evaluation period is to determine a new , more appropriate NO x 

## emission rate if the long

- term performance evaluation period determines

- - or indicates that an actual NO x 

## emission rate is

- - are substantially lower than 0 . 23 million

- - excuse me - - 0 . 23 pounds per million B T U on a daily rolling 30

- day average emission rate that is established in paragraph 1 . c of the Term Sheet . Q. Thank you for that description . And you mentioned

- - you testified that you

are the manager of the Air Quality Permitting Program with the Bureau .

With that in mind , can you describe what the

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# 81 permitting implications of the BART determination would be . A. If the Environmental Improvement Board approves this State Implementation Plan , our plan is to , within 6 0 days , revise the San Juan Generating Station permit to incorporate the applicable requirements in the Term Sheet , so that once EPA approves the SIP , the conditions will be enforceable . Q. Thank you . No more questions for this witness . I ' ll move on to the

- - our final technical witness . GI - DONG KIM having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . GRANTHAM : Q. Good morning , Mr . Kim . Can you state your name for the record . A. My name is Gi

- Dong Kim . Q. And where are you employed ? A. I am a modeling scientist in the modeling unit of the Bureau ' s Planning and Policy Section . I have work ed in the modeling unit for 1 1 years . Q. And can you describe your educational

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# 82 background . A. I have a PhD and a master of science in environmental engineering from the University of Tennessee . Q. And is what has been marked Exhibit 12 a a copy of your resume ? A. Yes . Q. And what was your role with respect to the BART determination for the San Juan Generating Station ? A. My role was to make sure that PNM visibility modeling analysis was consistent with BART modeling guideline and evaluate the visibility improvement of the NO x 

## control technology at each Class I area , using PNM visibility modeling results . Q. And did you submit written testimony for this proceeding ? A. Yes . Q. And is that

- - is that what has been marked Exhibit 12 ? A. Yes . Q. And do you have any corrections or changes to your written testimony ? A. Yes . There are change s at a couple different places on my written testimony , one of which is " P M model ing " should be changed to " PNM modeling " on line 5

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on page 4 . The other one is " 20 13 " should be inserted before " PNM " on the line 6 , page 4 . Q. Thank you . And with those changes , do you adopt Exhibit 12 as your testimony under oath here today ? A. Yes . Q. And with respect to what has been marked Exhibit 14 , which , as I mentioned earlier , is the Department ' s responses to the Park Service comments , did you have any involvement in developing that document ? A. Yes , I did . I address ed on the issue of the impact of ammonia slip from S N C R . Q. And going back to your - - your role

- - the first part of your role in the BART analysis , how did you determine if the air dispersion modeling submitted by PNM was acceptable ? A. I confirmed that the PNM modeling was performed with EPA - approved version of CALPUFF model and all the modeling data compiled by EPA , including three year of meteorological data from 2001 through 2003 , ammonia background concentration and modeling parameters .

I also verified that the PNM visibility modeling analysis was consist ent with BART modeling

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# 84 guideline . Q. So once you had determined that the methodology used by PNM was acceptable , how did you then evaluate the visibility impacts of the various control technologies scenarios ? A. EPA - recommended method were used , one of which is to determine 98 th percentile deciview change at each Class I area for each control scenario . The others are to determine the number of days exceeding . 5 deciview and visibility improvement with NO x 

## control technology at this Class I area . Q. And based on that evaluation , can you please describe the visibility improvements of the various control technologies at the 16 Class I areas ? A. Let me talk about the 2013 visibility modeling result as perform ed on year - by

- year basis for the facility

- wide impact for each control scenario .

The Figure 8 in Appendix D shows 98 th percentile deciview change based on background visibility condition , which are annual average natural visibility condition . This figure shows that the visibility impact at each Class I area modeled with 2001 million year of meteorological data are similar to those modeled with 2002 and 2003 year of meteorological data .

I want to point out a couple things here , one

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of which is both state alternative scenario and four

- unit SCR shows less visibility impairment than the other scenarios . The other one is the state alternative scenario result in pretty much the same visibility impact as the four

- unit S C R does .

Figure 10 shows the number of days exceeding

. 5 deciview at each Class I area . Like the model ing result shown in Figure 8 , this figure also demonstrate that both state alternative scenario and four

- unit S C R scenario perform better than the other scenarios in improving visibility .

More specifically , both state alternative scenario and four

- unit S C R reduce bad visibility days exceeding . 5 deciview by a factor of 2 from baseline .

The visibility improvement of NO x 

## control on top of the current control is shown in Figure 1 1 and Table 2 2 . As shown in Figure 1 1 , both state alternative scenario and four

- unit S C R significantly improve visibility at all the 16 Class I area than the other .

Table 22 shows the actual value of the visibility improvement for each control scenario . There

are six relative values on the last column in the table . I want to emphasize those six negative value indicating that state alternat ive scenario out perform four

- unit S C R at six corresponding Class I area for the negative

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value . In other words , those six Class I area will have more benefit of the visibility improvement with state alternative scenario than four

- unit S C R . Q. Thank you . And just to reiterate , based on that Table 22 , is it correct to say that at each of the 16 Class I

areas the visibility difference between the state alternative and the four S C R scenario is less than . 5 deciview , based on Table 22 ? A. Yes . Q. Thank you . I have no more questions for the witnesses at this point .

I would like to move for admission of Exhibits 5 through 12 a , including 10 a , 1 1 a and 12 a , and Exhibit 16 .

And we stand for questions . MR . VOLKERDING : Are there any objections to the entrance of those exhibits ?

MR . ALVIDREZ : No objections from PNM . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Hearing no objections , they ' re so admitted .

( Exhibits NMED 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 , 9 , 10 , 10 a , 11 , 11 a , 12 , 12 a and 16 admitted into evidence . )

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MR . VOLKERDING : I ' m just looking at the clock . It ' s 1 1 : 20 .

And let me ask the Board . I was thinking maybe this would be a good time for NMED to break , open it up to public comment , then we would break for lunch and then come back for cross .

Does that work for NMED ? MR . GRANTHAM : Yes . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Board ? MS . PEACOCK : Yes . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Those

- - I ' d like to try and do public comment kind of in groups of three . It ' s just easier to get people down and up rather than one at a time .

So there were two of you that indicated you wanted to go prior to lunch .

Is there anyone else who needs or would be willing to go prior to lunch ?

If not , we ' ll just do the two of you . All right . Okay . If the two gentlemen in the back and Mr . Henke would come down , we ' ll get you sworn in and do public comment .

MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Yeah . Come on down and

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# 88 please

- - yeah . We ' ll just go ahead and do it at the table here so you can be heard and recorded .

Go ahead

- - we ' ll go ahead and do all four of you , then . Why don ' t we do that .

MR . CALDWELL : I can wait until afternoon if you ' d like .

( JAMES CRAWFORD , CLAYTON BENALLY , STEVE HENKE and EVERETT F . CHAVEZ were duly sworn or affirmed . ) MR . VOLKERDING : We ' ll start at one end of the table and go down . JAMES CRAWFORD having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : So would you state and spell your full name .

MR . CRAWFORD : I ' m James Crawford , J - A - M - E - S C - R - A - W - F - O - R - D .

Okay . Mr . Hearing Officer , Madam Chair , members of the Board , here we go again . The radical global warming environment

- - alarmist evangelists are preaching Armageddon from their anti

- fossil fuel pulpit to the extreme detriment of us average electric ratepayers . They are not going to be happy until

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affordable and reliable electricity is a thing we fondly remember from our childhoods .

We are in the summer rerun period , re visiting 2011 . Supposedly this is about haze and visibility . However , since there will be no detectible improvement in visibility , the whole process is more about the stealth war on San Juan and fossil fuel generation stations in general .

First , we had the SIP you approved in 2011 that brought San Juan emissions within federal guidelines for a mere cost to us ratepayers of about $ 80 million . Even though the established guidelines would be met , there would still be no detectible change in visibility .

The SIP was approved by you , but it was not good enough for the most radical , most evil anti

- fossil fuel evangelistic group on the planet , the US Environmental Protection Agency . They wanted us beleaguered ratepayers to fork over nearly a billion dollars for modifications to San Juan . There would still be no noticeable change in visibility to the average person .

After a couple years of legal wrangling , we have now arrived at a decision point on a compromise

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# 90 proposal . The compromise is embodied in a tentative agreement between NMED , PNM and EPA . Unfortunately , the agreement is tentative and non binding on EPA , who can still reject the proposal . And this compromise will only cost us ratepayers about $ 430 million . Gee , what a bargain . But wait . The compromise agreement also includes closing down Units 2 and 3 . So in the process , we ratepayers lose half of the cheap reliable electricity we previously had for only half the cost of keeping it all . That does not make any sense . In other words , we ratepayers are still paying the same price per unit as in the original EPA dictate . Where is the compromise in that ?

Now the PNM ratepayers will be losing 340 megawatts of reliable , efficient electricity from closing down San Juan Units 2 and 3 . PNM is proposing to install natural gas - fired units to replace the lost generating capacity .

Natural gas , of course , would have much lower emissions , easily meet the federal guidelines and still provide reliable and efficient electricity . However , I ' m not seeing a cost estimate for installing the replacement gas - fired units . So apparently these costs will be in addition to the $ 430 million tab for

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# 91 modifying Units 1 and 4 .

Meeting the emissions guidelines has never been the objective of the radical global warming evangelists pursuing their war on all types of fossil fuels . Evangelists such as New Energy Economy and New Mexico Coalition for Clean Affordable Energy have already publicly expressed their dis pleasure and want the 340 megawatts made up by renewables like wind and solar . Any idea that renewables can place

- - replace large

- scale fossil fuel electric generation is grounded in rainbows , butter flies and fairy dust .

It would take about 4 5 3 windmills to make up the 340 megawatts lost from Units 2 and 3 . Using PNM ' s New Mexico Wind Center , which requires 2 6 4 acres per megawatt , it would take 119 , 592 acres of windmills to replace the 340 megawatts lost .

The area per windmill at the New Mexico Wind Center is about half the national average . So in

re ality , the land area would be

- - much likely be greater than the 119 , 000 acres . In fact , the new El Cabo wind farm in Torrance County is using 121 , 000 acres to support 149 turbines . That ' s about 800 acres per windmill . If we use PNM ' s recent 50

- acre solar

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# 92 installations around the state , it would take about 17 , 000 acres of solar panels to replace the 340 megawatts lost .

So the costs and environmental impacts of wind and solar are huge . Keep in mind that Mesa Verde , which is the main beneficiary of all this foolishness , is only 54 , 000 acres . So it would take two Mesa Verdes of windmills to replace the lost San Juan units .

So here we are in a catch

- 2 1

- - catch

- 22 situation . You ' re being left with no viable options . You have to approve this proposed plan and then rely on the roll of the dice with EPA whether they ' ll approve it

or not , with no guarantee that they will .

We rate payers are going to be saddled with the

same costs per unit of electricity whichever way it goes . We only pay half as much up front but only get half as much power , which we ' ll have to pay to replace . So we ' re screwed either way .

Thank you very much . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

CLAYTON BENALLY having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your

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full name , please .

MR . BENALLY : Yes . My name is Clayton Benally , C - L - A - Y - T - O - N , Benally , B - E - N - A - L - L - Y .

Mr . Chairman , members of the Board , as a member of the community , I support the revised State Implementation Plan for San Juan Generating Station . And I urge you also to support it , as well .

I am a member of the local community . I grew up here in

- - in Shiprock . I live now in Water flow , which is a stone ' s throw away from the plant .

And I ' ve actually worked at the plant on outages in my younger days and stuff . So you might

- - you can say I put my dues in , you know , working night shift and working the short outages and everything .

And I ' ve also worked at the mine , you know , which supplies coal to the plant . And so they ' re - - they ' re inter linked there and stuff .

And I have friends and family that work there still , you know , and they make a decent living . They spend their money here in the community , in the City of Farmington , on the Navajo Nation , as well . They pay their taxes and everything .

You know , and they will continue to do so . They ' ve earned their good money there . They ' re the top wage earners in the county , if not the state . And it

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allows them to send their

- - send their kids and stuff to schools , like here , San Juan College . You know , that benefits from these wages and everything .

And my kids , they ' ve gone to colleges here , not here at San Juan College , but , you know , Fort Lewis College and stuff , and that

- - the money I ' ve made there has helped provide an education for them , as well .

Professionally , I work for the Local 953 of the operating engineers . You know , we represent the workers at the power plant , the maintenance workers , not the full

- time workers , the maintenance , as well as construction , as well as members that work at the mines .

In the beginning , we supported PNM in their efforts with the State Implementation Plan , you know , and the FIP , and now the revised plan . We ' re concerned with the longevity of the plant , and we ' re concerned about the longevity of the mine , because they ' re inter linked and everything .

We ' ve negotiated these wages with the company at these

- - the wages and the benefits that our workers , our members they enjoy . You know , and then , you know , these wages and everything is spent here , and the local communities

- - the communities benefit from these jobs .

And we don ' t want that to end . We ' re very concerned about that , especially now with the attack on

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coal energy . You know , you ' re not only

- - you ' re seeing this at PNM , you ' re seeing this at APS and other plants in the area .

You know , and so , you know , we - - we believe

- - I believe personally

- - this is just

- - this is me speaking

- - that this is a good

- - how do you say it

- - it benefits both parties , you know . You got your - - you got your natural gas , and you got your coal , you know . So I think the company ' s bent over backwards to make this happen . And please , you know , take in consideration some of the people here in the local communities that support the plan . We urge you to support it , as well .

Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

STEVE HENKE having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MR . HENKE : My name Steve Henke . It ' s S - T - E - V - E H - E - N - K - E .

I ' m president of the New Mexico Oil and Gas

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# 96 Association . I represent members who drill for and produce 95 percent of the oil and gas in the State of New Mexico .

First of all , Mr . Chairman and members of the commission , I want to thank you for your service to the citizens of New Mexico .

And you ' re in a tough spot here . You know , you ' re being asked to choose between some alternatives , all of which appear to have some adverse economic impact in the Four Corners .

And just it

- - in terms of introduction , I ' ve got quite a long history with San Juan Generating Station . I was hired as a college student to come up and do some vegetative inventory prior to mining in the 19 7 0 s . And I worked for the Bureau of Land Management in Farmington for almost two decades , in the ' 80 s , and then again from 2001 to 2010 .

So the Bureau of Land Management had a fairly strong relationship with PNM , San Juan Coal Company , La Plata Mine . You know , I was here at the Bureau of Land Management from the permitting to the monitoring compliance and

- - and reclamation for

- - for La Plata Mine and authorization of the haul road .

And in addition , my older brother was maintenance manager out at the station for most of the

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# 97 19 8 0 s . So I understand the importance of that plant to the economy of the Four Corners .

And , you know , we look at the foundations of economic development and prosperity in Northwest New Mexico . You look at the oil and gas industry , you know , the power plants and the associated mines , the increase in the medical field , certainly the educational growth that will be experienced through San Juan College .

It ' s tough getting a parking spot here this morning , so it ' s pretty active here at San Juan College , and

- - and being a retail center .

But it ' s - - I think we ' re faced with a difficult choice in terms of , you know , how do we meet the federal standards here and , you know , balance that environmental concern with the economy of

- - of Northwestern New Mexico .

And , you know , to highlight the divergence of opinion here , looking at the Daily Times this morning , you know , I ' ve got former colleagues and friends on both the County Commission and the Farmington City Council , and they ' re not in agreement in terms of path forward on this issue .

So I certainly respect the difficulty of the decision in front of you .

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# 98 With that being said , the New Mexico Oil and Gas Association and its members are here to endorse the State Implementation Plan , and we do that for several

reasons . You know , the first of which is it does appear to meet the federal mandate , and through modeling , I think we ' ve heard evidence and data that would indicate that the State Implementation Plan meets what EPA is asking us to do .

You know , secondly , I believe that it provides the best prospect long

- term for the preservation of jobs in the Four Corners region , not only through PNM ' s commitment to handle , you know , the loss of jobs through attrition , but also the prospect of providing a lift , if you will , some opportunity in the natural gas sector to provide abundant , clean natural gas to replace the loss of the coal generation from Units 2 and 3 .

And as you all are well aware , Northwest New Mexico has struggled economically with the downturn in oil and gas , particularly with natural gas prices being depressed . And certainly the New Mexico Oil and Gas Association wouldn ' t endorse a proposal that would increase the demand for natural gas , and that is a cornerstone of PNM ' s proposal to replace some of that generation , you know , up to 200 megawatts with the

- -

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# 99 with the natural gas station .

And as the previous speaker indicated , we feel that conversion to natural gas will have less impact long

- term because there is existing gathering , transportation infrastructure for natural gas in the Four Corners , and many of the wells , up to 50 percent of the new wells that are drilled in the San Juan Basin are

on existing pads , so that further minimizes the environmental impact .

The proposed plan from the state is less costly and

- - and offers some protection for the ratepayers . You know , again , it ' s a choice between unpalatable options , you know , 800 million , 400 million . You know , the ratepayers will ultimately absorb that , but I think the State Implementation Plan , you know , minimizes the best it can that impact to ratepayers .

And as I mentioned , the proposal

- - if there ' s

a switch to natural gas , I think there ' s minimal environmental impact in terms of new surface disturbance . We may have to select a new pipeline route to feed that natural gas plant , but there are many existing corridors in Northwest New Mexico , substantial infrastructure , you know , to provide that natural gas .

So for the reasons I stated , not the least of which is the opportunity to increase the demand for

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# 100

natural gas , the New Mexico Oil and Gas Association endorses the adoption of the State Implementation Plan , and I appreciate the opportunity to comment in front of you today . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . EVERETT CHAVEZ having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MR . CHAVEZ : My name is Everett F . Chavez .

I ' m from the Pueblo of Santo Domingo , for those of you who may not know , between Albuquerque and Santa Fe . I have the worst luck . I always end up being the last speaker that precedes lunch . So hang on . I ' ll try to make this brief .

I am a former three

- time Governor from my pueblo , and also I have run environmental programs for the 19 pueblos of New Mexico . I ' m personally an engineer by profession .

Now , what I ' d like to say endorses the state plan , because as a tribe

- - and as tribes , we always get impacted by mandates from Washington , all having to do

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# 101 with compliance , not just environmental laws that are in place , but many other things .

And believe me , compliance is quite costly , I think most of you are finding out . And mandates from Washington is not new to us as tribes , and consultation is also not one of the strongest suits of the federal government , where we ' re all impacted .

I know that the larger impact economically will be felt in the Four Corners , but it also affects all of us along the Rio Grande corridor , because there ' s

a lot of us users that depend on PNM .

And we ' re talking about some of the cost impacts to some of the least able people , that have fixed incomes and fall below poverty level , I ' d say , and

so definitely there is an interest that

- - that we seek for something that is a reasonable solution to these things . And it looks like the joint

- - or the pursuit of the state plan is the least impactful , because , as I said , the owners have to pass on this impact to the

users , and there ' s many of us that are connected , even though we have been collaborating with people that provide the power , including PNM , to create alternative

sources . And it looks like all of the technology and

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# 102

all of the modeling and all of the things that have been provided to us seem to suggest this is the most practical solution .

So I would ask this body , this honorable body to support the state plan , because it really , for the first time that I have seen , forces some collaborations . Many of us have begun to collaborate with the state governments as well as the federal governments to find the most practical solutions to many of the things that challenge us .

And so the collaboration between the impacted parties I would encourage also to continue to seek some tribal input . I ' m happy to hear that , I guess , the Navajo Nation President will be here .

I do want to - - in case you ' re wondering why I ' m so far away from home , I happen to have stole a Navajo woman about 40 years ago , so this is really part of the country she ' s from , so I ' m not really that far away from home . So I have family that have been and continue to be employed by the power stations .

And so I would also similarly seek the support from the PRC to follow suit with what I think is an excellent practical solution . It ' s going to be hard getting away from the costs to address the Clean Air Act , but again , I think what was reported to us is that

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# 103

much more than just the NO x 

## will be addressed .

We ' re going to be looking at probably cleaner and better air , and that ' s coming from an original environmentalist . As tribes , we ' re charged to make sure

we protect Mother Earth , and we do everything we can . But again , sometimes we have to seek the practical solutions . I do want to say one other thing that ' s important , why I say consultation with tribes is important . Some of us happen to live in those corridors where all of the energy is transported from one end of the state to the other , from interstate highways , power lines , as well as natural gas lines and rail systems that transport energy and the economy throughout the state . So thank you for allowing us to have a say in what we feel is

- - at least in my mind , as I represent my tribe , is a practical solution , that we certainly support the State Implementation Plan .

Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . I think we have one more who would like to go - - or two more prior to lunch , and after that , we will wrap up for the morning .

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# 104 ( CARLA SONNTAG and JAMES PIOCHE were duly

sworn or affirmed . )

CARLA SONNTAG having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name . MS . SONNTAG : My name is Carla Sonntag , C - A - R - L - A S - O - N - N - T - A - G .

Good morning , and thank you for allowing me to speak . I ' m Carla Sonntag . I ' m the executive director of the New Mexico Utility Shareholders Alliance .

We are a grassroots operation throughout the state , representing shareholders of utility companies operating in New Mexico . We ' ve got about 12 , 000 members statewide . On behalf of the New Mexico Utility Shareholders Alliance , I would like to express support of the revised State Implementation Plan to address alleged regional haze at San Juan Generating Station .

It is very concerning that we are once again considering a revised SIP . It doesn ' t appear that the problem lies with you , the members of the Environmental

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# 105 Improvement Board , and we appreciate the many hours that you ' ve put in on this project .

The problem appears to be with the Environmental Protection Agency and its mission to shut down the nation ' s coal

- fired electric generating plants . This revised plan , with which the EPA has at least some tentative agreement , will result in closing two out of four units at the San Juan plant , which is a great loss to the state .

While we are concerned about the loss of these units and the costs to replace the power produced by them , we support this plan for the following reasons .

The revised SIP is the best alternative given the choices that we have right now .

It will meet the visibility requirements , if approved by the EPA , and also make potential progress towards complying with President Obama ' s greenhouse gas initiatives . While we neither agree with nor support the President ' s initiatives , we recognize the re ality of what is no doubt coming next to this plant and others .

It is preferable to at least attempt to get ahead of those yet un defined requirements while making the required visibility changes at this plant .

Combining the visibility requirements along with anticipated future environmental regulations , we

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# 106

see this revised SIP as a longer

- range plan that may be beneficial in the following ways .

It could provide better planning and continuity for PNM by possibly get ting a head of the next round of regulations being developed by the EPA .

By addressing possible future regulations while complying with the visibility requirements , this plan could save ratepayers costs in the long run .

This plan will reduce elements related to visibility as well as those related to greenhouse gas . In addition , it ' s going to greatly reduce the amount of water used at the plant .

The NMU S A respectfully requests the EIB approve this plan and that it work diligently with PNM and others to acquire the approval of the EPA . We would like to see the work begin and PNM , along with its shareholders and ratepayers , have at least some certainty as to the direction of changes at this plant .

Thank you very much . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

JAMES PIOCHE having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : And would you state and spell

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# 107

your full name , please .

MR . PIOCHE : Hello . My name is James Pioche , and I am - - I am - - I ' m the president of the Tse Daa K ' aan Chapter , which is west of the San Juan Generating Station , and we ' re actually neighbors .

And

- - and I am in support of PNM and state plans , because naturally we are a farming community , and

we have farmed the land for hundreds of years , as we and the community try to strike the right balance of living

our lives as Navajo people , as farmers and as sheep herders .

One of the greatest strengths of our community is that we are located near the great economic opportunity in San Juan County . Many of our members work at the San Juan Generating Station and the Four Corners Power Plant .

I ' ve worked at the Four Corners Power Plant myself for seven years , but with an itchy feet that I have , I had to resign and travel the world a little bit . So I ended up back in college in San - - San Francisco State University .

So from the on set of the whole regional haze , we have been involved , and we have been active in discussion all summer long with the future of the San

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# 108

Juan Generating Station .

Of course , we would prefer that all units stay open , but we also understand compromise , and compromise is important to the

- - s o there is certainty in our future , so that we can plan and do our best to prepare for what comes next .

We were happy to hear that in crafting the agreement in principle PNM agreed to construct a new natural gas plant in San Juan County ; an opportunity for local constructions jobs , and an agreement by PNM not to lay off any of our generating station employees affected by the two - unit closure , which includes our own chapter members ; contributing to - - $ 1 million to the Navajo workforce program .

And the goal was to minimize the economic to the Four Corners area , and the plan helps answer that goal . As a chapter , we worked with PNM to implement the Navajo Workforce Training Program this summer . Through San Juan College and Navajo Technical University , many of our members will be able to obtain training and education to further their career goals in energy . Create opportunities to our people

- - f or our people is what we want , and the agreement in principle

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# 109

not only mitigates the economic impact but also creates future for many of our people , especially the Navajo youth . On behalf of Tse Daa K ' aan Chapter , I ' m here to present a resolution from the people and to the Board in support of the adoption of the revised state implementation for San Juan Generating Station .

Thank you very much . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . Okay . With that , we will break for lunch . MS . PEACOCK : I had

- - MR . VOLKERDING : Oh , okay . MS . PEACOCK : Thank you . I want to say the Board especially appreciates the public comment , and thanks for coming to talk with

us . Thank you .

MR . VOLKERDING : Let ' s shoot for 1 : 30 to

reconvene . Thank you .

( Proceedings in recess from 11:58 a.m. to 1:36 p.m. ) MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . It looks like

- - I think everyone who needs to be here at the moment is here , so we can get start ed .

Mr . Grantham , you want to have your panel come

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# 110

back up ? ELIZABETH BISBEY - KUEHN , TED SCHOOLEY and GI - DONG KIM having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Let ' s go back on the record in hearing EIB 13

- 0 2 .

We ' re at a place to start cross - examination for NMED witnesses .

And so I will ask the Board if there are any questions from Board members . EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MS . PEACOCK : I ' ll say something . Dr . Kim , this is not as much of a question as

a comment . I wanted to say I really loved your bar charts

- - MR . KIM : Thank you .

MS . PEACOCK : - - and Figures 2 and 3 , and I

was glad to see that those were incorporated into the draft SIP . MR . VOLKERDING : Do you have a question ?

MS . PEACOCK : No . MR . KIM : Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Are there any other Board

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# 111 questions ? I have some , but I was going to go last , so - - go ahead . MR . FULFER : Earlier we talked about the number of jobs lost .

Are all the jobs going to be retained on the coal mining side ?

MR . GRANTHAM : Member Fulfer , I think that ' s outside of the scope of the testimony of these three witnesses . MR . FULFER : Of those . That ' s true .

Another one I had , though , on the technical side is

- - talked about the . 23 pounds per million B T U to be monitored and maybe to create a lower limit later

on . Is there going to be a limit on the time before PNM has to - - before the

- - before additional work is required of them ?

MR . SCHOOLEY : Madam Chair , Hearing Officer Volkerding , members of the Board , let ' s see . On here , we have

- - in the Term Sheet , that would be covered in section d . iv . Let me look and re familiarize myself with this . So the requirement is that the

- - if the demonstration

- - if the demonstrated emission rate is

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# 112

less than . 2 pound per million B T U on a daily rolling 30

- day average basis PNM will apply for a permit modification by March 31 st , 2017 , and that is to codify that

- - the reduction required by this part of the Term Sheet and to a permit .

And depending on the type of modification necessary , that would take either probably 90 day

- -

or - - excuse me - - 30 days or 9 0 days after that application was ruled complete to do that , and then once the application to - - or - - excuse me - - to issue the permit

- - once the permit has been issued , then after a short break

- in period , then that emission limit would become immediately effective .

MR . FULFER : Let me see if I ' m following you . If it ' s . 23 , and it ' s that for a rolling period of time , that will become what ' s - -

MR . SCHOOLEY : Well , the . 23 would be

- - become effective immediately if that ' s what the determination is , is . 23

- - and after the permit issuance . But regardless of what the final emission limit is , it will have to be put into a permit , and then

once it ' s put into the permit , it will become effective after a break

- in period .

MR . FULFER : So if it ' s a . 18 , that will become their new monitored

- - or their new level that

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# 113 will be set ?

MR . SCHOOLEY : The Term Sheet specifies that if it ' s - - if the actual emissions are below 0 . 20 pounds per million B T U , then whatever the

- - the difference between . 023 and whatever it is

- - in your case , let ' s say it ' s . 18

- - then 60 percent of that difference will be put into the permit

- - an emission rate 60 percent of that difference lower than . 23 will be put in as the new emission rate in the permit .

MR . FULFER : Okay . Back to - - MR . SCHOOLEY : So they will need a little bit of a safety factor , and it ' s not really a viable , you know , method for them to demonstrate compliance if they don ' t have some kind of safety factor , so we give them that 40 percent safety factor .

MR . FULFER : Well , back to my question , once that is determined , is there a time period

- - say , are you going

- - can they

- - EPA or New Mexico , the Environment Department - - go back to PNM in six months and say " You got to do another $ 400 million worth of up grades , " six months or a year or two years ?

Is there a time period that says that they can have at least maybe 10 years or - - is there a time period in there that

- - what ' s to keep them from coming

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# 114

back and saying " We ' re going to be right here again , " like we were two years ago , and we ' re back here two years and we ' re re starting a lot of this again ?

What

- - is there anything in the Term Sheet that addresses that , that we don ' t have to come back here in two years again ?

MR . SCHOOLEY : Member Fulfer , the

- - we can only address what ' s in front of us , and what ' s in front of us is

- - says that , you know , we - - we have very definite performance testing and then very definite limit that ' s going to be established by this SIP , and that will not be able to be changed once the long

- term performance evaluation period is done and its

- - and its requirements put into a permit .

Whether EPA comes up with any new requirements

- - and I ' m not sure if that ' s your question

- - I can ' t speak to that , because I have no idea to be able to predict that

- - how to predict that .

MR . FULFER : Okay . Thank you on that . On the chart of

- - let ' s see if I can get to that chart .

On Table 10

- 2

- - I have it on page 10

- 5

- - can you kind of explain that chart to me ?

I ' m not really understanding what the 98 th percentile for each year - - what those numbers mean

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there . MR . SCHOOLEY : What page are you on ?

MR . KIM : Are you talking about Table 10

- 2 in Appendix D ?

MR . FULFER : Let me look here . MR . GRANTHAM : I believe that would be in Chapter 10 .

MS . PEACOCK : Chapter 10 . MR . MORROW : Here it is , if you want it . MR . FULFER : Yeah , Chapter 10 . MR . MORROW : Here . MR . FULFER : Page 10

- 5 . MR . KIM : Thank you . Let me - - Hearing Officer , let me - - to understand the values in the

- - this table , let me tell you what 98 th percentile means .

CALPOST model post - process or , which is part of CALPUFF modeling system , calculate the deciview value which is visibility

- - which is measuring visibility . For each Class I area , the CALPOST model calculate deciview value at each receptor , which are hypothetical point where the CALPOST model calculate predict ed deciview value .

Model calculate all the

- - what is the deciview value at each receptor for each day . What that

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mean is each receptor point has 3 6 5 deciview value for

one year modeling . 98 th percentile means high eighth high value , which means high eighth high days that

- - you know , the deciview values out of 3 6 5 predict ed deciview values .

The number s shown in this table is high eighth high value from 3 6 5 days . And those numbers are the deciview values . Deciview value s are - - deciviews are the measures of visibility . Higher visibility number , higher deciview value means worst visibility condition . Lower deciview values shown in this table means better visibility condition .

MR . FULFER : Okay . Does that

- - can you come to a conclusion through those numbers that what percent New Mexico is contributing to , like you said , the Mesa Verde ?

MR . KIM : Mesa Verde is the nearest Class I

area , okay , about 40 miles north of facility . The

- - could you - - could you say it one more time , sir ?

MR . FULFER : I ' m just curious if from these numbers can you tell what actually New Mexico is contributing to the visibility of Mesa Verde National Park . Is there a breakdown from New Mexico and other states , from what they contribute to it ?

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MR . KIM : This is just for impact of facility at each Class I area . So this one does not include any visibility impact from other sources .

MR . FULFER : Okay . Is there a chart that shows the visibility impairment that New Mexico contributes to that Mesa Verde ? MR . VOLKERDING : If I can try and help .

The chart that ' s before us , the table that ' s before us , that is what New Mexico

- - and basically it ' s just the San Juan Generating Station

- - contributes .

MR . FULFER : For visibility ? MR . VOLKERDING : For visibility . They don ' t incorporate other sources into that table , if I ' m understanding .

MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : Right . MR . VOLKERDING : And so there ' s not a table that then shows cumulative visibility impacts from all other sources .

Is that correct ? Because that would not be part of a single

- source BART determination . We ' re looking at one

source , which is the San Juan Generating Station , and so they wouldn ' t be looking at all the other potential

sources elsewhere .

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# 118

MR . FULFER : So like on - - I don ' t know what other chart to reference besides 10

- 2

- - is

- - the three

- year average is 5 . 4 . Is that a - - what is that ? Is that a percentage of

- -

MR . KIM : Oh , in the case of Mesa Verde , you

see 90 percentile deciview value for 2001 year of data and 2002 , 2003 . The values shown on the last column in this table is average value of three numbers .

MR . CASCIANO : Are these values deciview values , or are they number of days per 3 6 5 , like you said earlier ?

MR . KIM : Deciview values . MR . FULFER : Okay . Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Are you done ? Okay . Any other questions from the Board members ? Mr . Casciano . MR . CASCIANO : Yeah . I want to just make sure I under stood the NO x 

## calculations correctly .

And starting with Table 24 in the BART determination , the current baseline that you show , current scenario , is that a permitted value , 21 , 000 tons of NO x 

## ? Is that the facility ' s actual or the current permitted ? MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : That ' s based on the

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# 119 facility ' s current permitted NO x 

## emission limit .

MR . CASCIANO : Okay . And then you mentioned 13 , 000

- ton reduction . Is that from that value ? MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : That 13 , 000

- - MR . CASCIANO : Estimated with shutting down two of the units and applying

- -

MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : That ' s correct . MR . CASCIANO : - - non selective . And of that 13 , 000 , how much is from shutting down the two units , and how much is from the new control units on the remaining two ?

MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : It ' s about 8 , 000 tons resulting from the shutdown of Units 2 and 3 .

MR . CASCIANO : So that would be a gain of 5

- -

or a reduction of 5 , 000 tons per year from applying the control technology to the remaining two units ?

MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : More or less 5 , 000 tons . MR . CASCIANO : Okay . Switching to the National Park Service memo that NMED responded to , can you talk a little bit about the

- - I actually was concerned with the language in the National Park Service memo and then the attached documentation .

So I guess my first question is did the

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# 120 National Park Service share any additional technical information to back up their statements beyond the two or three

- page kind of technical summary they had attached to their

- - their two - page memo with the Department ?

MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : They did provide spreadsheets estimating their estimated total capital investment and annualized costs and emissions reductions based on their own analysis of the performance of best available technology .

MR . CASCIANO : I wanted to comment that I thought the Department ' s response was very well done , and again , I didn ' t appreciate the Park Service , you know , saying the modeling was flawed when they just made different assumptions than the Department did in the modeling , and I think you did a very good job of explaining why you made the assumptions you did for the

- - for the modeling .

Was there any response from the Park Service to your response , or has there been ?

MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : Not that I know of . MR . CASCIANO : Okay . Thank you very much . That ' s it , John . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Any other questions from

- - okay . I have a

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# 121 couple . And first is for Mr . Schooley .

During your oral

- - and maybe I misunderstood it . That ' s why I wanted to just kind of clarify it .

You were talking about all the hypotheticals if

- - if the Board approves this

- - this petition , that the Department is going to revise PNM ' s construction permit to incorporate the new emission limits prior to EPA agreeing ; is that correct ?

MR . SCHOOLEY : Madam Chair , Hearing Officer Volkerding , we ' ve been in full discussion with

- -

on going discussion with EPA , and we fully intend to - - to provide them with the draft permit for their comments before we issue the permit , and even further than that , I think we ' re in basic agreement as to what that permit ' s going to contain .

So even now , you know , even before the permit has been , you know , required

- - not required , but the application has been received .

MR . VOLKERDING : So I guess - - you know , the Board hasn ' t been privy , which is fine , to all the negotiations that have taken place with , you know , EPA , PNM and NMED , and it does sound like NMED has kind of

some warm , fuzzy feeling that EPA is going to go along with approving the SIP if the Board were to approve it .

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# 122

I ' m going to say I have a slightly different just feeling based on how things have happened . I ' m not saying I ' m right , I just have a different feeling .

So my question is what if EPA does not hold up their end of the bargain , NMED is now issued a new construction permit with lower emission limits ? Where does that leave PNM , I guess is kind of my worst case scenario type question .

MR . SCHOOLEY : Hearing Officer Volkerding , that ' s a very good question .

The

- - it would be very difficult for EPA to not , you know

- - or to comment adversely on this permitting action , because it ' s simply going to incorporate the requirements of the Term Sheet virtually word for

- - well , it will be essentially quoted out of the Term Sheet .

So it will be

- - that is agreed upon language that everybody signed off upon . And there will be a - - the permit will then have three operating scenarios in the permit , and there will be clauses that give exceptions if certain

- - you know , for instance , there ' s not final SIP approval or whatever .

So yes , PNM is intended to be protected within the permit .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you .

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# 123

And I had a question on the timing in the Term Sheet . It confused me . And part of it just seems a little , I don ' t know , unrealistic , but maybe

- - again , since we ' re in the negotiations , it ' s hard to understand all of the thought processes .

In 1 . c of the Term Sheet , S N C R is to be installed on all four units by January 31 st of 20 16 ? Am I reading that right ?

MR . SCHOOLEY : Hearing Officer Volkerding , this is correct .

MR . VOLKERDING : And yet within 24 months

- - MR . SCHOOLEY : Excuse me . Well , yes . Excuse me . It ' s 1 and 4 . MR . VOLKERDING : Just 1 and 4 . MR . SCHOOLEY : That ' s correct . MR . VOLKERDING : Oh . I read that as 1 through 4 . MR . SCHOOLEY : No . That ' s 1 and 4 .

MR . VOLKERDING : So that answers the second half of the question . So - - all right .

MR . SCHOOLEY : Yeah . My mistake . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Then my question ' s null and void . All right . Thank you .

MR . SCHOOLEY : Apparently we made the same mistake .

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# 124

MR . VOLKERDING : On the

- - on PNM obtaining a modified permit to lower the sulfur dioxide emission limits , I got confused as to whether

- - because there

was a comment by , I think , the Park Service that this

was merely a paperwork exercise .

So I guess my question is is there

- - are there any actual physical changes that will be taking place at the plant to actually reduce their emissions , or is the permit simply capturing where they ' re at today and making it an enforceable limit ?

MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : There won ' t be any modifications required to the facility

- -

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : - - to achieve . 10 , but it is significantly tightening the emission rate of SO 2 

## .

MR . VOLKERDING : Sure . No , absolutely . I

mean , it does increase the enforceable emission limit , right

- - MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : Correct .

MR . VOLKERDING : - - or increase the enforceability . I understand . I just didn ' t know if there was any physical change that needed to be made . Okay . This is probably for Dr . Kim .

In terms of the deciview difference between

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# 125

what was the 2011 SIP and now the revised SIP , what ' s the difference between those two ?

MR . KIM : There are major difference . One of the differences is 2011 visibility analysis was performed with non regulatory version of CALPUFF models . CALPUFF model is EPA model , but there

are different

- - the only 5 . 8 version is approve d CALPUFF models , but the 2011 visibility analysis was done with non regulatory version of CALPUFF models , but 2013 visibility analysis was done with the regulatory version of CALPUFF model .

The other difference was 2013 visibility modeling analysis was done with revised emission rate of SO 2 

## , total particulate matters , what is it , inor ganic condensable P M and NO x 

## .

MR . VOLKERDING : And so that was not done in 2011 ; is that correct ?

MR . KIM : No . But - - MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MR . KIM : - - the other big thing is state alternative was not considered for 2011 visibility analysis , but that is brand new things for 2013 ' s visibility modeling analysis .

MR . VOLKERDING : I think those are all the questions I have .

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# 126 Any other Board questions before I - - MR . FULFER : I had one follow

- up questions . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MR . FULFER : I ' m still confused a little bit . How much

- - let me see if I word this

- - maybe it makes a little bit of sense .

How much visibility impairment does New Mexico do to , say , the Mesa Verde National Park versus the other states ?

Do we emit enough emissions compared to the others ? I guess I ' m wanting like a percentage . Are we 100

- - 90 percent more than the other states affecting that , or are we only half of 1 percent ?

MR . GRANTHAM : Member Fulfer , part of your question may go to the next hearing , which is with respect to New Mexico ' s obligations towards other states in not interfering with their State Implementation Plan . And that ' s - - it ' s really in that context of the different section of the Clean Air Act , the Section 110 . ( a ) ( 2 ) ( D ) , the good neighbor provision , that those kind of interstate effects were looked at through modeling of the Western Regional Air Partnership .

And I think in that

- - I ' m not saying it would be

- - we can answer it in the next hearing any better

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# 127

than in this hearing , but I think that the

- - that that model would have been done by the Western Regional Air Partnership , and it ' s not part of the modeling for this BART determination that is just looking at the impacts of the San Juan Generating Station .

Perhaps Dr . Kim can speak to if the modeling incorporates other sources besides PNM in that modeling regardless of whether

- - where they ' re located or what state they ' re located in . I ' m not sure if he can or not , but I think your question is kind of not addressed by the modeling that Dr . Kim testified to , unfortunately .

MR . FULFER : I guess where I - - this kind of

concerns me is the

- - in one of the case laws that I ' ve heard talk about New Mexico , that one of the federal judges says we make such a small part of the emissions compared to the United States that it wouldn ' t even be a needle in the haystack .

So I ' m curious if we ' d studied that to see if

we really are affecting , say , these other

- - these national parks to - - at a significant level that

- - that

we ' re singled out by the EPA on this case .

And that ' s just my general observation . You don ' t have to answer that . That ' s the reason I ' m looking for the information . Okay .

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# 128

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Mr . Alvidrez , any cross - examination of the Department witnesses ?

MR . ALVIDREZ : No , Mr . Hearing Officer . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . MR . ALVIDREZ : No cross - examination from PNM . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . Mr . Gould ? MR . GOULD : I just have a couple questions . MR . VOLKERDING : Sure , please .

CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR . GOULD :

MR . GOULD : My question is very specific , and it ' s for

- - Mr . Schooley ; is that correct ?

MR . SCHOOLEY : That ' s correct . MR . GOULD : And I ' m referring to page 7 of your testimony that was pre filed in this matter .

MR . SCHOOLEY : Okay . My - - Mr . Gould , I ' m on page 7 . MR . GOULD : Yeah . About halfway down the page , line 15 , you talk about the performance

- - the fuel performance testing . And this relates to the pre treating of the coal that is anticipated to begin sometime next year .

Is that a fair statement ?

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# 129

MR . SCHOOLEY : Yes , that is . MR . GOULD : Would you describe in more detail what you mean down on line 20 that there is a potential adverse impact on over all unit operations ? What does that

- - what does that entail ?

MR . SCHOOLEY : Mr . Gould , the

- - that ' s in there to protect PNM in case it is determined that the fuel additive in question damages the units in any way

so , you know , that we won ' t - - you know , they

- - they need to ensure that those units are not adversely impacted , because we don ' t want a degradation of them and a loss of their capital investment .

The

- - MR . GOULD : Is there a potential that this fuel treatment could actually improve the operation of the coal plant , or is that not known at all ?

MR . SCHOOLEY : That ' s not known , because the

- - it has

- - this technology has not been tested at the

- - to an extent at the San Juan Generating Station , and so it would be difficult to respond either way .

MR . GOULD : Okay . Is it just because of some specific circumstances at San Juan that it ' s not known , or is it just the technology that ' s not well tested generally in the coal industry ?

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# 130

MR . SCHOOLEY : Mr . Gould , I ' m - - I think I ' m probably the wrong person to be asking this question . I would think that PNM should speak to that , because this is proprietary technology , and the New Mexico Environment Department has not seen the technical details of this technology at this point .

So I think PNM would probably be better in a position to answer this question .

MR . GOULD : Thank you , Mr . Schooley . Thank you , Mr . Hearing examiner . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . Are there any questions from members of the audience for this panel ?

Okay . Seeing none , Mr . Grantham , anything in closing ? MR . GRANTHAM : Mr . - -

MR . VOLKERDING : Or - - MR . GRANTHAM : Mr . Hearing Officer , Ms . Bisbey

- Kuehn did have one correction to an answer she gave earlier upon re - examining some of the materials . MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : Yes . Relating , Madam Chair , Hearing Officer Volkerding and other chair members

- - Board members , I had quoted the reduction of NO x 

## from Units 2 and 3 to be around 8 , 000 tons per year ,

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# 131

and the correct number is 10 , 200 tons per year .

MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . MS . BISBEY - KUEHN : Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you very much . MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you . Mr . Hearing Officer , I would just like to draw your attention , and Madam Chair , members of the Board , that I believe President Shelly from the Navajo Nation is here , and if

- - at an appropriate time , the Board may wish to take

- - reopen for public comment .

MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . Thank you for letting us know that .

Mr . Alvidrez , would that work for PNM , to have the President give comment first ?

MR . ALVIDREZ : Absolutely . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you . So we will go to public comment and allow the President of the Navajo Nation to address the Board . BEN SHELLY having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . SHELLY : Ben Shelly , B - E - N S - H - E - L - L - Y .

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# 132

That ' s it ? Madam Chair , I believe you are the Madam Chair of this wonderful Board , and Board members , all of you , good afternoon .

My name is Ben Shelly . I am the President of the Navajo Nation .

I thank you for the opportunity to offer comment today in support of the alternative State Implementation , SIP , for San Juan Generating Station . That ' s what I ' m here for .

The proposed alternative plan offer cost effectiveness within a realistic time frame while maintaining consist ency with the Clean Air Act and Regional Haze Rule , and at the same time supports continued dedicated efforts among the Navajo Nation , New Mexico and EPA to balance environmental protection with economic prosperity .

One other thing I have always talked about in my support is job . We have some middle class workers within the mine right now . Our people , the Navajo people , are middle class workers . We start eroding their work area , we ' re putting them in the poorhouse , and I don ' t think we want to do that .

I respect the alternative presented in New Mexico proposed , and I have noted that their proposal

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# 133 acknowledged my concern about job loss and catalytic reduction , S C R , technology on all four units at San Juan Generating Station .

I got it mixed up here . Addressing potential economic impact in the region . I usually use my iPad . This is the first time I use my paper that I forgot .

I hope the EIB and the EPA will also recognize the important aspects of the proposed

- - proposed

- - proposal that will be beneficial in mitigating job loss throughout this region .

The San Juan Generating Station is a major employers in the northeastern portion of the Navajo Nation . Approximately 8 8 of the 400 employees , 22 percent , at the plants are Native American , most being Navajo . About 230 of the San Juan mine 500

- person work force

- - workforce , approximately 46 percent , are Native American , with most also being Navajo .

In addition , many of the temporary workers hire d during time scheduling maintenance at the S J G S and the major contractor for the San Juan Generating Station

are comprised of mostly Navajo employees . The plant , mine , contractors , subcontractors and other seasonal workers represent about 3 18 household of the Navajo

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# 134 Nation in the highly paid job that are about 2 . 75 time higher than the average Navajo Nation household income about 20 , 000 a year .

The loss of this job will be devastating to the household and indirectly and directly to many Navajo people . And we also are going to be suffering as taxpayers . As you sit there , the Board , you ' re going to have to feed these people on - - when you lose a job , what is that ? Then you go to - - you apply for unemployment . And that ' s going to come out of the state fund . And that ' s really

- - realistic .

And the federal government is going to be suffering from that on food stamp . Oh , food stamp another one , too . So there ' s a - - there ' s a potential of great loss to Navajo

- - to the State of New Mexico ' s income . I prefer the alternative proposals over the proposed federal rule . The federal rule will require about $ 1 billion to install expensive selective catalytic reduction , S C R , technology on all four units at San Juan Generating Station .

The federal rule has a potential to cause loss of job at the plant and the mine and causing further economic impact in this whole regio n .

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# 135 This is a matter that I have been concern ed about for more than a year . I am concern ed about job loss . I am concerned that EPA propose d action to require S C R as BART for San Juan Generating Station will

cause job loss because the cost to install S C R is very expensive . The estimated cost to install S C R is about 740 million . EPA estimate is

- - estimate is 34 5 million .

The state plan includes a commitment to work with the Navajo Nation in providing opportunity for training and workforce development to lessen economic impact for work

- - for workers who may be affected by the change and to eventually be laid off by offering alternatives to move workers in to compatible or new construction job .

This includes a PNM commitment of more than $ 1 million for workforce training and economic development in the Four Corners area and commitment by PNM to have no layoff as result of closure of Unit 2 and 3 . I - - this simply

- - well , I don ' t know why we make this kind of work . All it is is PNM is helping people that are going to be laid off to give them alternative career , to get training for , and they offer $ 1 million to train the Navajos , and this is going to

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# 136

the college here , San Juan College , 200 , 000 , to another college institution , to train them so they can get - - find jobs somewhere else . And that ' s all it is .

Where we are ? Number 3 ? 4 ? EPA , New Mexico and the Navajo Nation are responsible for job creation and improving our economy . And me and the Governor Martinez have been saying that . We ' re very supportive of no job loss and revenue , and for state and nation .

We ' re just as responsible to work in balancing environmental protection with economic prosperity . It just needs to be balanced , and we need to work together in that . It is possible for a decision that will be both

- - or do both .

Environmental . The state plan will require less cost installation of S N C R , and there will be reduction in no NO x 

## emission , including visibility improvement , and there will be less threat to jobs and the local and regional economy .

The costly proposed federal plan will reduce only no NO x 

## emission . The state plan will reduce no NO x 

## emission , the P A - - P M , sulfur dioxide and other emission that contribute to visibility impairment . In addition , the state plan will reduce greenhouse gas emission , reducing the amount of water needed to

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# 137 generate electricity .

The state proposed plan include a commitment by PNM to construct a 150 to 200 megawatt natural gas peaking plant in Four Corners area . And we do have a lot of natural gas , as you know , in this area . This plan will be the replacement of power loss from the shutdown of Unit 2 and 3 at San Juan Generating Station .

The state plan includes the lay

- - the installation of S N C R by more than a year .

In my conclusion , my position had been that BART for San Juan Generating Station should be S N C R on all four units . This is still my preference . However , New Mexico developed another plan as an alternative to the costly federal plan .

This new state plan encompass my concern and prospective regarding impact to the Navajo Nation and the region . I am supportive of the state alternative plan . This plan is an important step forward in meeting the requirement of federal visibility rule and maintaining the economic impact to the region .

And again , on my P S to the Board , I have been advocating no job loss , no unit

- - no unit reduction in

some areas , because to the nation interest it does reduce cost - - revenue to our nation and also a loss of job to our Navajo people . This has always been my

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# 138 position , Region 6 , Region 9 , and that ' s what I ' ve been saying . So again , with this alternative plan that state provided to you is

- - to me , it ' s something that it does

- - my concerns are addressing that area of job loss . So with that , I thank you for listening to me , and I appreciate

- - I ' m happy to be here . I got so much thing going on , I - - there ' s a fair going on . You ' re welcome to come down .

The fair

- - the parade is the biggest time to

come down . There ' s about

- - oh , we have maybe a million kids up there , head start , high school kid . There

- - the whole Window Rock area is full of it this morning . Buses and

- - hundred buses out there , you know , in the parking lot .

So you ' re welcome to come down , and invite everybody that ' s here , interested in come down , have

some fry bread , mutt on stew and Navajo tacos . They ' re great . Than you very much .

MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . ( Discussion off the record . ) MR . VOLKERDING : Can I get a show of hands of how many other people would like to make public comment ,

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# 139

as well , just for planning purposes .

One , two , three , four

- - Mr . Alvidrez . MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes , Mr . Hearing Officer . I was made aware that there are two Navajo Nation chapter presidents that are currently here , as well . We would certainly defer to allow the Board to hear from them in this juncture .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you . And of those that have rais ed their hands , how many of you are from out of town ?

Anyone else ? Okay . Let ' s - - okay . So why don ' t we have the two chapter presidents , the gentleman in the back , and

- - yes . Yes , sir , since you said you ' re from out of town . And Ms . Crawford . Have the four of you .

MRS . CRAWFORD : Yeah . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . That would be great . ( RICKIE NEZ , NORMAN BEGAYE and DONNA CRAWFORD

were duly sworn or affirmed . )

RICKIE NEZ having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

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MR . NEZ : Good afternoon , ladies and gentlemen . My name is Rickie Nez , R - I - C - K - I - E N - E - Z , Nez .

And I ' m representing the San Juan chapter , a chapter located to the south , neighboring Kirtland , New Mexico , with about 600 Navajo members . I am the chapter president and served in this capacity for four years . Also , I am the chairman of District 13 , which is comprised of four Navajo chapters .

As a local governing entity within the Navajo Nation , we represent the interests of our constituents .

As a chapter , we believe that in order to be self

- sustaining we must have a strong community base derived from our own Navajo culture and values . This base includes access to education and the promotion of economic development and quality jobs .

Over the past three years , our community has been listening and providing our perspective to the

on going discussions about the future of our good neighbor , San Juan Generating Station .

The original State Implementation Plan for the San Juan Generating Station proposed by the State of New Mexico required all four units at the San Juan Generating Station to add the selective non catalytic reduction technology , but that plan was not approved by

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the EPA , and the EPA then adopted a Federal Implementation

- - Implementation Plan which required installation of selective catalytic reduction technologies on all four units .

Our interest as a key stakeholder community is to ensure that choices related to the power plant have the least impact to the economy and environment of our

area . When we heard about the Federal Implementation Plan , we made our views known and spoke against the Federal Implementation Plan because we were extremely concerned about its impact on jobs and the economy - - economic opportunity .

We also knew that the cost of installing the technology called for by the Federal Implementation Plan

was so expensive that the operator of the plant , PNM , appealed EPA ' s action to the federal court .

Nationally , we also k new harsh economic conditions for coal

- powered plants and costly environmental regulations led to numerous plan ned coal plant closure announcements across the country with little discussion about the negative local economic impacts brought on by coal plant closures .

San Juan Generating Station faced similar economic conditions and environmental regulations as

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well as nearby Four Corners Power Plant and other Navajo coal plants .

Again , as a Navajo Nation chapter , we follow ed the issue and had discussions about what to do . After due consideration by the San Juan Chapter , we support the revised State Implementation Plan for San Juan Generating Station because it represents the best compromise .

With the agreement in principle , it includes the installation of the less costly selective

non catalytic reduction technology and includes substantial local mitigation commitments by PNM for the closing of two units at San Juan Generating Station by constructing a new natural gas plant in San Juan County , an opportunity for local construction jobs ; an agreement by PNM to not lay off any San Juan Generating Station employees affected by the two - unit closure , including

our Navajo Nation chapter members ; and contributing $ 1 million over five years to the Navajo Nation Workforce Training Program .

On behalf of the San Juan Chapter , I present a resolution before this body on behalf of also Upper Fruitland Chapter in support of the adoption of the revised State Implementation Plan for San Juan Generating Station .

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And I would like to also again thank San Juan Generating Station for their support to the local communities , and thank you very much .

MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

NORMAN BEGAYE having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . BEGAYE : My name is Norman Begaye , N - O - R - M - A - N B - E - G - A - Y - E .

Good afternoon , Madam Chair , Board . Welcome back to Farmington .

My name is Norman Begay e , and I represent the Nenahnezad Chapter as the chapter president .

The Nenahnezad Chapter is located between the two area power plants . With over 1 , 100 Navajo members , there is no other community that has been most affected by the operation of the neighboring plants over the last several years .

As a local community entity with the Navajo Nation , we represent the interests of our constituents .

Our community is fortunate to live near the center of the jobs with Navajo people enjoying

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# 144 longstanding careers provided by the power plants and related mines that supply coal to the two plants .

I have family members and other people from

our community that have earned a good living for and have been able to provide for their families . In our culture and beliefs , we are taught to take care of our family that extends well beyond the traditional family . So one paycheck sometimes extends well beyond our immediate family members . With that in mind , I hope you

can appreciate the difficult economic impacts that will be facing

- - that we will be facing with our - - with unit closures at both power plants .

This is why I ' m personally taking a stand to be involved and ensure the interests of the chapter are represented .

As a chapter , we followed the

- - we followed the

- - and discussed about the

- - what to do on the last

- - the last two years , and I ' m here today to express support on behalf of Nenahnezad Chapter for the revised State Implementation Plan for San Juan Generating Station , because it represents the best compromise .

Many of us are not completely happy with the impending retirement of Units 1 and 2 because it impacts further job opportunities of Navajo people in our - - in

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my community . There are quality jobs that are not easy to replace . But our chapter does support it as the best scenario for meeting BART .

My chapter understands the need to find a reasonable course towards an agreement that will result in meeting the Regional Haze Rule , lessen job losses and impacts to the economic

- - or regional economy . Not only does it lessen impacts to the local economy , it also demonstrates environmental leadership and significantly reduces emission .

I also commend PNM for their

- - for their comments to the

- - to the Navajo Nation Workforce Training Initiative that will provide $ 1 million over five years to help educate and train our future Navajo workforce to new and different fields and career critical to the area .

Please allow me to present a resolution before this body on behalf of Nenahnezad Chapter in support of the adoption of the revised State Implementation for San Juan Generating Station .

Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

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DONNA CRAWFORD having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY MS . CRAWFORD : Good afternoon , Hearing Officer , Madam Chairman and Board members .

My name is Donna Crawford , and I ' m here as a member of the rate - paying public .

I have a question . Who is speaking for , caring about and lobbying for the ratepayers in this state ? My point is that it is certainly not groups such as the New Energy Economy , the Coalition for Clean Affordable Energy , the Western Resource Advocates , the Sierra Club and many more . These groups want renewables to replace the soon - to - be shuttered coal

- fired units at San Juan and Four Corners power plants . They will accept nothing less .

PNM put forth a perfectly reasonable plan for replacing the two San Juan units , replace the two coal units with a new natural gas generating plant at the

same site , plus additional electricity from the Palo Verde Nuclear plant and 78 megawatts from the remaining units at the plant . But that ' s not good enough .

These radical green groups will accept nothing

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less than wind , solar and bio mass to power our electricity , no matter that it ' s un reliable , and particularly no matter what it costs . Cost is not a factor to the green crowd . If we all have to pay way

more for electricity , that ' s okay with them .

The thing that the green crowd doesn ' t want the general public to know is that the more renewables that are forced on our utilities , the more utilities have to build peaking plants to provide an even flow of electricity to New Mexico consumers . Hence , the high cost of renewables .

Oh , wait a minute . I forgot that they ' re totally convinced that renewables are all we need to live in their utopian world .

And we have to ask ourselves of these same people , including the EPA , do they care about the economy of our state and country ?

I think not . The fact that the oil and gas industry is what built the economy of this great country

means nothing to them . They ' re willing to tear it down

as long as they can have their precious wind and solar .

Oh , wait a minute again . I forgot that they ' re going to create jobs in the green energy industry . They keep ignoring the fact that for every green job created , two - and

- a - half regular jobs are lost .

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And in May of this year , according to the Institute of Energy Research , the Department of Energy has spent 26 billion , that ' s with a B , since 2009 on loan programs which only yielded 2 , 308 permanent jobs , meaning the cost to taxpayers was 11 . 25 million per green job .

Most of the aforementioned green groups have lobbyists who live in Santa Fe and are constantly pounding away at the legislature , the PRC , PNM and all the other utilities to do their bidding . But who is speaking and lobbying for the ratepayers ?

The green lobbyists know that the average citizen doesn ' t have time to come to Santa Fe to rail against their green agenda , and they ' re taking full advantage of that . So here ' s the score : Ratepayers , zero ; greenies , every hit out of the ballpark . They ' ve had their way on every issue .

Let ' s keep in mind that it has never been proven beyond a doubt that renewables have any significant effect one way or the other on the environment . Somebody has to be the voice of reason in this regional haze plan . And I certainly hope that you will approve the revised SIP .

Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : I was going to ask Mr . Alvidrez

- - about how long do you think your direct

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# 149 will be ? MR . ALVIDREZ : I think 30 minutes at most .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Then if it ' s okay with you , I ' d like to try and go through the rest of the public comment prior to your testimony

- - or your group ' s testimony .

Is that okay with you ? MR . ALVIDREZ : That will be fine . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . So those of you who are here from the public who are still waiting to provide public comment , I guess , raise your hands . I was going to keep track of the head count .

Looks like there ' s four of you . So why don ' t you just

- - all four of you come on down . Five of you . Okay . Come on down .

( Discussion off the record . ) ( DIANA LUCK , PETER GOULD , JOE GONZALES and CHARLIE DUNSWORTH were duly sworn or affirmed . )

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DIANA LUCK having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Spell your full name , please . MS . LUCK : I am Diana Luck . Good afternoon to everybody . Thank you for giving us this opportunity . I am Diana Luck , a resident of San Juan County . I ' m a retired PNM employee , and I ' m here to speak in favor of the proposed State Implementation Plan for San Juan Generating Station .

As a resident of the area , I believe that the state plan is superior to the federal plan as far as the environmental benefits are concerned , especially with regard to the water usage being reduced by 50 percent . As a volunteer of one of the area ' s watershed groups , this is an especially attractive benefit .

I believe that all of us would like to see the reduction in the regional haze , but I think we have to wonder at what cost can we afford to do that . And we need a balance .

As a - - as a customer , I ' m also concerned that the state plan doesn ' t get - - if the state plan doesn ' t get approved

- - I ' m sorry - - the federal rule will

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# 151 remain in effect for San Juan Generating Station , which I understand is estimated to cost 800 million , leading to higher consumer electric bills . As a retired person , that ' s a scary thing , you know .

As a former employee , I ' m very proud of PNM for their concerns for the local economic impacts that retiring these two units would have and that they have stepped up and offered to off set that impact .

PNM has agreed to build a natural gas peaking plant and associated pipeline in the Four Corners area . As a retired PNM gas employee , of course , I think this is great , that we ' re going to use gas now .

So PNM has also agreed to no layoffs as a result of the closure . It has agreed to contribute more than a million dollars to job training initiatives in

our area . And I just want to thank you for this opportunity to speak to you in favor of the state ' s plan . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . PETER GOULD having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY MR . GOULD : Good afternoon , Madam Chair , Board

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members , Mr . Hearing Officer .

My name is Peter Gould , G - O - U - L - D . I am general counsel of the New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers , and I am here on behalf of my membership to support the revised State Implementation Plan .

Very briefly , who we are . New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers represents members who are the largest users of electricity on PNM ' s system . We represent corporations as well as public entities in this effort .

And our main concern has always been keeping electric rates reasonable , because electricity for many of my clients is their largest single bill . And so , therefore , it ' s directly related to the affordability of the products they make or their services that they provide to the public .

We are in support of the State Implementation Plan even though we are very well aware that it will

mean higher rates for all ratepayers , but we think that this is the best outcome given the re ality of the situation . As many commenters have stated before you this afternoon , and the designee Secretary of the Environment Department himself has stated , this is not something

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that New Mexico is choosing to do voluntarily . This is

a direct result of top - down directives from the EPA .

And as Mr . Flynn stated , he was in a no - win situation where even if he prevailed in the Tenth Circuit , he was looking at a situation where he was simply going to go back to a EPA with

- - how should I put it kindly

- - with a closed mind that was going to

come back and simply re - order the same result that they had ordered before .

And so this is

- - this is , I think , a lesson to all citizens about the dangers of a run away federal bureaucracy that none of us locally have much control

over , even though there are very , very many statements to this Board about how this will impact the local economy and the statewide economy .

I was just reading something the other day , a report by Bloomberg , in which they looked at the economic health of all 50 states and the District of Columbia , and the sad news is from the ' 9 5 to 2011 time frame New Mexico , in terms of economic health , comes in dead last . I mean , that ' s shocking .

We all know it in our personal lives . We see it in our families . We see it in the

- - in the businesses that have

- - that have left the state . But

as I say , this is the best solution because it gives us

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more flexibility going down the line .

I want to compliment the Governor ' s office , the NMED and PNM for really working with all the stakeholders to come up with

- - with this solution , and I - - and I would recommend to the Board that you approve it . I would add one caveat , and this is done very respectfully . The New Mexico Public Regulation Commission does have the jurisdiction to determine how

we ' re going to deal with that 418

- megawatt hole that this is going to put in the middle of PNM ' s re source mixes , and I would respectfully ask this Board not to do anything that would pre judge that .

There are going to be some hearings at the end of the year and into next year in which the whole

re source mix is going to be examined , and we ' re going to have

- - we ' re going to have an opportunity to look at what would be the best alternative in terms of a number of different plants at a number of different locations .

So I would just respectfully ask this Board not to - - not to do anything in its order that would pre judge that effort .

And thank you very much for the opportunity to make a comment .

MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

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JOE GONZALES having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MR . GONZALES : Joe Gonzales , G - O - N - Z - A - L - E - S .

I ' m here on behalf of the support of the SIP plan that you all have been listening to .

I don ' t think I could add a whole lot of new comments that are - - that haven ' t been said and said very well all morning and this afternoon , but I want to thank you all personally , because you have a very difficult task . You have two things that you ' re - - have to do . You have to have the skill sets to listen to a lot of technical data and be able to listen . That ' s a key part . And the other part is you have to hear a lot of emotional issues , and those are even more difficult , and then you have to choose and have all the data to back you up , because darts come from everywhere . They

can ' t stop them . It just happens that way .

And I happen to know , because I did retire from PNM in 19 9 6 . I was - - I brought my family in 19 7 2

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to help build and start up the San Juan Generating Station . I was the manager of plant operations for several years out there . I know how complicated these issues are . I dealt with nine different owners from five different states . They all have different govern ances .

And as an example , the City of Farmington has the

- - the electric utility manager , and they report to the city manager , and they report to the City Council . Now you take nine owners . So you get into a situation that you all are dealing with , with all these stakeholders and listening to all the different rationale , and we ' ve come down to this . We ' ve come down to a point where somebody is saying " We need to go this direction . "

And we had our former mayor , Tom Taylor

- - he wrote a commentary in our Daily Times just a few days ago , and it said " The San Juan proposal is not ideal , but it ' s our best option . " And we have heard all the

reasons for that this morning , all those reasons that it is our best option .

And I can ' t say I know how difficult your task is , but don ' t worry about the darts , because I think you ' re going the right direction . You ' ve listened , you ' ve asked questions , and , like I said , you ' ve had the

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# 157 skill sets and the knowledge to be able to listen to all that technical stuff .

So I appreciate you . I can ' t say any more . I ' d like to put in Tom Taylor ' s commentary from the

- - I guess , part of the record from The Daily Times just to say I ' m in support of this and , of course , our former Mayor of Farmington was in support of this .

MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

CHARLIE DUNSWORTH having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MR . DUNSWORTH : C - H - - - or Charlie Dunsworth , D - U - N - S - W - O - R - T - H .

Thank you . Good afternoon . I appreciate this opportunity . As you might see from my gray hair , I go back

a little bit of time . And my personal feeling on some of this is I regret seeing the changes in the visibility that have happened since late ' 50 s , early ' 60 s , from the Grand Canyon - - I didn ' t know what was causing it at that time

- - all the way to where I live now , in

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Dolores , Colorado . I spent 5 4 years , most of that in New Mexico . Retired from PNM , as well , in 19 9 1 .

I can ' t add a whole lot more than what ' s already been said , but I do back the company ' s plan . It is the best option , I feel . It may not clean up the environment for the visibility part of it the way I would like to see it done

- - I don ' t know that that will

ever happen

- - but it ' s not anyways near what it used to be , as I wish it were .

But I can ' t say that I ever expect that to happen . We do need the electric energy .

There ' s not much else that I think I can say about this , except that , yes , I have seen the visibility decline since long before San Juan came into existence .

Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

R . G . HUNT having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : State and spell your full name , please . MR . HUNT : Yes . My name is R . G . Hunt , and I ' m from Water flow , New Mexico .

And I appreciate you people listening to me .

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One thing I can say about the Public Service Company in New Mexico , it has created a lot of jobs for

a lot of people . But the re ality of it is it ' s been in business for 40 years , and when they created it , they drawed it up , they made it to where it was most - - it made the most money it could make .

But the sad part about it , why didn ' t they turn around and go in there and say we need to do something about the emissions out of that power plant ? They did nothing . And everything that they fouled up

on , they had to fight them tooth and nail in court .

And like I say , they dumped this river sludge down behind my house , into the river , over a million gallons a day , ten tons of salt every day , right into the San Juan River , polluting the river , not - - with no

concern about the people downstream .

And , you know , when you see stuff like that , and then they go out there and they dump all their fly ash out there , and one of these days them people are going to drive off , and when they drive off , they ' re going to leave the biggest mess for us to take care of you ever seen in your life .

And just like the last litigations with the Sierra Club against PNM , they got their letter of intent . So what they decided , they decided they would

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# 160 fight the damn thing . So the first thing they did when they went down , they hired a bunch of lawyers . They hired lawyers as far as Washington , DC .

They had a few around locally , just like on the environmental done

- - the environmental science of it . Some of them come out of Denver . Another one come out of Durango . What the hell ' s wrong with the people here in the State of New Mexico ? We need the jobs here . Just like the drilling company , they come in out of Arizona . What ' s wrong with our drilling companies ?

It ' s a shame to see something like that transpire and go on . And just like I say , that stuff

runs through my property every day , every day , with total dis respect , no concern for you or nothing , just like a bunch of bullies , just like a bunch of bullies on

a playground . There ' s no excuse for it .

And , you know , when you look at that they was out there drilling some test wells here a week or two ago , you know , none of the experts from the Sierra Club

was out there with them , going over that stuff . And you just see that time after time after time for no reason .

And they quoted me in the newspaper about PNM and B H P don ' t give a damn about the environment nor the people in the community . And just like on the air monitoring stations they had , it was up stream from the

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# 161 jet stream , rather than down there on the river , where the most of the people lives , big

- - and , you know , why do they do stuff like that ? What ' s the reason for it ?

And just like I say , I ' ve heard several times here , " We ' re good neighbors , we ' re good neighbors . " You know , there is no excuse for that . And it looks to me like the politicians in the State of New Mexico , a little contribution towards campaign contribution buy you a whole third world country . And , you know , there ' s

no excuse for it .

And , you know , the jobs

- - I ' m all for the jobs in the area , to supporting them , but the only thing I can say , people , make them people shoulder their damn responsibility , rather than run from it , because there ' s tremendous amount of profit in pollution .

And just like I say , they spent 10 s of millions of dollars to defend themselves on the Sierra Club litigations , where they could have went down and probably resolved the whole thing for 2 or 3 million .

And just like I say , I get my light bill , they cost - - the power cost adjustment , my light bill goes up 25 perce nt because of that nonsense . And I said to myself , I said , you know , poor management . That ' s what ' s wrong with them , poor management .

No , it ' s not . They knew exactly what they was

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# 162 doing when they opened that plant up , and they still know exactly what they ' re doing today .

And just like I say , tell them to shoulder their responsibility , just like anybody else . If my kid

or one of my grandkids makes a mess , they better clean it up . And that ' s the way PNM should be , also , because they should be held to the same standards , rather than being above the standards . That ' s acceptable .

You guys got any questions , ask me . MR . VOLKERDING : No . Thank you for being here . MR . HUNT : Thanks for listening to me . MR . VOLKERDING : I was going to propose a 10

- , 15

- minute break , and then we will start up with PNM ' s direct testimony .

Thank you . ( Proceedings in recess from 3:00 p.m. to 3:11 p.m. ) stop MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Let ' s go back on the record in EIB 13

- 0 2 , and we ' ll turn it over to Public Service Company of New Mexico .

Mr . Alvidrez . MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes , Mr . Hearing Examiner , Madam Chair , members of the Board . Thank you very much .

Rick Alvidrez on behalf of Public Service

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# 163 Company of New Mexico , and I have a very few brief opening remarks .

But first I would like to thank the Board members for their participation and hard work in connection with this proceeding . We are fully cognizant of the fact that you have jobs out side of your public service , in your capacity as Board members , and this takes time away from your family , away from your jobs , and it ' s a very important function that you carry out . So please know that we appreciate your efforts in that regard . I also have to apologize , because it seems as though lately when I appear before you we ' re doing a hearing we ' ve done before all over again . We ' re back

once again on a regional haze BART rule . But I hope this is the last time that we ' ll have to be before the Board on this issue .

As indicated in our filings in this case , we fully support the revised State Implementation Plan as proposed by the New Mexico Environment Department .

I hope that by now the Board recognizes that this revised plan is very much a compromise , that based

on the comments that you ' ve no doubt received you see that some people think it ' s - - it ' s too much , in terms of what it requires , others think that it doesn ' t go far

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# 164 enough . And what I can tell you is that it is the result of negotiations over many , many months , difficult negotiations , and that it represents a very delicate balance , one that achieves the necessary visibility reductions to meet the Regional Haze Rule requirements , and also at the same time mitigates the ratepayer impacts to PNM ' s customers here in New Mexico that would be imposed if the FIP were required to be implemented at the San Juan Generating Station .

Another feature , of course , as out lined in the testimony , is it includes many significant environmental benefits that would not be available under either the state - approved plan or the federal plan , so that is actually kind of a bonus in terms of what this rule will bring about if you adopt it .

But I do want to emphasize that it is a delicate balance , so extreme caution . I would urge the Board to exercise extreme caution in trying to tinker with it , because if you modify something that , you know , doesn ' t result in as great a visibility improvement , we

run a risk that the EPA won ' t approve this .

On the other side , if more is required in terms of emission controls and what have you , the economics start changing very quickly , and the plan then

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# 165

loses efficacy from a ratepayer impact standpoint . So

we ' d urge the adoption of the rule as proposed .

I do think it ' s also important to put this rule and this process in some perspective . This is the very first and very critical step , first step , in what is going to be a very long regulatory process to implement in full the Term Sheet .

And the question before this Board is really a rather narrow one , and that is whether the revised SIP should be adopted . And specifically what the Board needs to determine is whether the revised SIP meets the five

- factor BART analysis so that the plan that is proposed represents a Best Available Retrofit Technology for San Juan Generating Station , specifically with regard to NO x 

## emissions .

There are going to be a series of other regulatory approvals . Some have been mentioned here today . Of course , the issue of the retirement of the two units is not wholly within PNM ' s control by any

means . It ' s going to require approval by the New Mexico Public Regulation Commission . I ' m glad to see we have staff here and we actually have a commissioner here that ' s been present during these hearings .

Likewise , the replacement generation capacity ,

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# 166 including the peaking plant , that is called for under the Term Sheet is something that ' s going to have to be subject to NMP R C review , as well , and there are a number of other regulatory approvals including FERC and the other owners ' regulatory bodies that are ultimately going to have to pass on the efficacy of the entire plan . But what is before this Board is the critical first step . Without it , we really can ' t proceed with the terms of the Term Sheet , and so we would request that you adopt the NMED proposal as - - as submitted .

One final comment I do want to make relating to some timing issues , because there ' s been a lot of discussion about New Mexico having missed dead lines and EPA having missed deadlines , and this was an issue that actually came up in the context of the challenges in the Tenth Circuit to the Federal Implementation Plan .

And we had to make it clear on the record in that case , and I ' d like to make it clear on the record in this case , that none of those delays were caused by anything that PNM did , that PNM , as the operator of the San Juan Generating Station , has timely filed everything that needed to be fi led in the complete , you know , format , and that , you know , to some extent , we ' re victims

- - not to point fingers , but we ' re victims of ,

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# 167

you know , the regulatory and bureaucratic

- - bureaucratic process that , you know , is applicable .

But the delays are not something that were in any respect created by PNM .

So with that brief opening statement , if I may , I ' d like to turn to our witnesses , and I think maybe time to swear them in .

( KYLE LUCAS , DIANE FISCHER and RAJ P . GAIKWAD

were duly sworn or affirmed . ) MR . ALVIDREZ : And I ' d like to start with our first witness , Mr . Kyle Lucas . KYLE LUCAS , DIANE FISCHER and RAJ P . GAIKWAD having been first duly sworn or affirmed , were examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . ALVIDREZ :

MR . ALVIDREZ : And , Mr . Lucas , can you please state and spell your name for the record .

MR . LUCAS : Yes . It ' s Kyle Lucas , K - Y - L - E L - U - C - A - S . MR . ALVIDREZ : And can you please state your employment and job title .

MR . LUCAS : Yes . I work for Black & Veatch Corporation . I ' m a project manager in their power generation services area .

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# 168

MR . ALVIDREZ : And can you briefly describe your job duties .

MR . LUCAS : I ' ve worked for Black & Veatch for 19 years . My responsibilities include environmental project management , encompassing strategy , development , compliance for coal

- , gas - and oil

- fired power plants , along with applications , licensing for these plants , air dispersion modeling and other compliance issues .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And you ' re testifying on behalf of PNM in this proceeding , correct .

MR . LUCAS : Yes . MR . ALVIDREZ : And can you please summarize your relevant educational background and relevant work experience pertaining to the matters in this hearing .

MR . LUCAS : Certainly . I have a BS degree in atmospheric science . I have the last several years participated in multiple

- part analyses for 23 coal

- fired units at eight power plants .

Additionally , I ' ve supported other BART - related projects , and I ' ve also participated in

numerous BACT analyses , which are similar to the BART analyses . It ' s a Best Available Control Technology analysis , except it just has the visibility component to it , the BART analysis does .

For this project , I over saw the air dispersion

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# 169 modeling analyses from the initiation of the project in 2007 through the application for 2013 , as well as I served as the assistant project manager , working through various engineering studies to support the on going efforts for the BART process since 2007 .

2012 , I took over the project manager ' s responsibilities for this project as Black & Veatch was

no longer the technology engineer for PNM .

Additionally , I would like to note that both Ms . Fischer and I have appeared before the Board in 2011

as expert witnesses on the 2011 SIP for the San Juan Generating Station .

MR . ALVIDREZ : Thank you . And have you and Ms . Fischer prepared pre filed direct testimony in this case that was attached as PNM Exhibit C to P NM ' s notice of intent in this matter ?

MR . LUCAS : Yes . MR . ALVIDREZ : And are there any corrections you ' d like to make to that pre filed testimony ?

MR . LUCAS : There are a few . Yes . MR . ALVIDREZ : Can you please detail those for the record .

MR . LUCAS : Certainly . On page 2 of our testimony , line 15 , there ' s a duplicate . Please delete " is further detailed . "

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# 170

On page 2 , line 16 , in paragraph line s 16 to 20 , it should not be a bulleted paragraph .

On page 3 , line number 9 , following the ( d ) , there was an omission . That should read " in both the technical and the visibility improvement cost effectiveness . "

On page 24 of our testimony , line 8 , the $ 1 , 050 a ton should read $ 1 , 049 a ton . There ' s a typo .

And on line number 9 of the same page , $ 6 , 228

a ton should read $ 6 , 218 a ton .

Page 38 of our testimony , Table 9 , column four , the header of that column should read EPA ' s FIP minus Revised SIP .

Page 47 , Table 14 , column four , the header should read Maximum Improvement , and the unit should read dollars per deciview , not dollars

- - not thousand dollars per deciview . It should read dollars per deciview . And my last correction is on page 49 , line 8 , the reference should not read Nevada , it should read Oklahoma . MR . ALVIDREZ : All right .

With those revisions to your pre filed testimony , do you now adopt your pre filed testimony in this proceed ing under oath ?

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# 171

MR . LUCAS : Yes . MR . ALVIDREZ : Let me move on to your colleague , Ms . Fischer .

Ms . Fischer , can you state and spell your name for the record , please .

MS . FISCHER : Yes . Diane Fischer , D - I - A - N - E F - I - S - C - H - E - R .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And can you tell us your current place of employment and job title .

MS . FISCHER : Yes . I am the air quality control services area leader for Black & Veatch Corporation .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And can you give us a very general description of your job duties , please .

MS . FISCHER : My current role , I ' m responsible for oversight of our air quality control services projects , studies similar to this BART analysis , but also engineering services to execute air quality control projects . MR . ALVIDREZ : And have you , in conjunction with Mr . Lucas , prepared pre filed direct testimony in this matter which we have submitted as PNM Exhibit C .

MS . FISCHER : Yes . MR . ALVIDREZ : And do you - - is there a summary of

- - or statement of your qualifications in

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# 172

that

- - as part of that filing .

MS . FISCHER : Yes , sir . MR . ALVIDREZ : And can you briefly summarize your relevant educational background and work experience .

MS . FISCHER : Yes . I have a bachelor ' s of science degree in mechanical engineering from Iowa State University .

I ' ve been with Black & Veatch for 2 1 years . I ' ve done air quality control projects for most of that time , specializing specifically in selective catalytic reduction , NO x 

## control projects . I have a professional engineering license in the State of Missouri .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And like Mr . Lucas , you previously testified before this Board .

MS . FISCHER : Yes , in June of ' 11 . MR . ALVIDREZ : Now , you heard the corrections that Mr . Lucas read into the record with respect to the pre filed testimony .

Do you agree and adopt those corrections ? MS . FISCHER : Yes . MR . ALVIDREZ : And let me ask , with those corrections in place , do you adopt that testimony as your sworn testimony in this case ?

MS . FISCHER : Yes .

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# 173

MR . ALVIDREZ : And moving on to the third member of our panel , Dr . Raj Gaikwad .

Dr . Gaikwad , would you please state your name and spell it for the record .

MR . GAIKWAD : My name is Rajendra Gaikwad , R - A - J - E - N - D - R - A G - A - I - A - W - A - D .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And can you please tell us your current place of employment and your job title .

MR . GAIKWAD : I ' m currently employed with Sargent & Lundy in Chicago . I ' m vice

- president of environmental services .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And very briefly , can you tell

us your job duties as vice

- president .

MR . GAIKWAD : My responsibility , I ' m responsible for supervising approximately 25 engineers who se work focuses on air and water technologies , air dispersion modeling and environmental compliance .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And

- - I ' m sorry . MR . GAIKWAD : Some of my group ' s duty is to keep up to date on the technologies .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And can you please summarize your relevant educational background and work experience .

MR . GAIKWAD : My bachelor ' s degree in chemical engineering from Nagpur University , India ; master ' s

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# 174 degree from Indian Institute of Technology , India ; and a PhD in chemical engineering from McGill University , Montreal Canada .

I have over 25 years experience related to process engineering .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And have you prepared pre filed direct testimony in this matter which has been filed as PNM Exhibit D in this proceeding ?

MR . GAIKWAD : Yes . MR . ALVIDREZ : And are there any corrections you ' d like to make to that testimony ?

MR . GAIKWAD : I just have one correction on page 38 . MR . ALVIDREZ : If you could .

MR . GAIKWAD : The last paragraph , M , the title should read S & L Followed Cost Control Manual rather than S & L Deviation from Cost Control Manual .

MR . ALVIDREZ : And with that correction to the record , do you now adopt your pre filed testimony under oath today ?

MR . GAIKWAD : Yes . MR . ALVIDREZ : With that , Mr . Hearing Officer , we would move the admission of PNM Exhibits C and D as previously filed in this proceeding into evidence in this proceeding .

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# 175

MR . VOLKERDING : So accepted . ( Exhibits PNM C and D admitted into evidence . ) MR . ALVIDREZ : All right . With that , I ' d call

on Mr . Lucas first to just give a very brief over view of his pre filed testimony in this case .

MR . LUCAS : In this proceeding I will provide just a general over view of the BART analyses performed for San Juan Generating Station as well as a summary of air dispersion modeling aspects which support the addendum from April , 2013 .

Based on the Term Sheet agreement , up dated cost information , new emission rates contained in the New Source Review permit for the plant , as well as up dated modeling , we developed the addendum document . We focused on the four scenarios that were discussed previously by NMED .

Black & Veatch took the lead in preparation of this addendum document , coordinated the non air quality impacts with PNM , as well as the cost information of the technologies with Dr . Gaikwad at Sargent & Lundy .

Black & Veatch followed EPA guidelines for development of the analysis , which described the factors in developing the BART five

- step process .

NMED spoke of this in detail . I ' m going to skip over this part unless you have any questions .

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# 176

But the result was that the cost effectiveness , the dollar per ton or the cost of the technology over the amount of emissions re moved was most cost effective for the revised SIP scenario as compared to the FIP or the 2011 SIP scenario . So basically the two S N C R , two - unit retirement was the most cost effective scenario of the scenarios looked at .

The cost effectiveness is only one piece of it . The visibility component , the fifth step in the factor s , is also a part that really relies on the BART rule . That ' s what it ' s based on .

For consistency with the EPA ' s visibility modeling for the FIP , Black & Veatch utilized EPA ' s visibility modeling files in what they provided within the FIP itself , and used that as a basis of the addendum . We first went ahead and looked at the methodology that was supplied within the technical support documents filed as part of the FIP . We conducted verification modeling once we had those files and confirmed the results for the scenarios in the FIP , and we further provided those results to EPA in September of last year .

We then modified those input files specifically with regard to the scenarios , the baseline

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# 177 scenario , the FIP scenario , the revised SIP scenario as well as the 2011 SIP , so we could have all those run ning the same methodology , the up dated permit limits , the Term Sheet agreement considerations , the unit retirements and so forth .

The results of the visibility modeling for each scenario in each Class I area is converted into deciview , so the results all come out of the modeling in deciview . And one deciview improvement is relatively compar able to a 10 percent change in visibility .

So according to EPA , the definition of one deciview or 10 percent change is what ' s perceptible to the intricate observer , the human eye .

The results for the modeling show that the FIP , the four S C R case and revised SIP , being the two S N C Rs , two units retired , would actually improve visibility beyond the original 2011 SIP .

The revised SIP indicates that the visibility impacts at five Class I areas are equal to or better than the visibility projected for the FIP . For the remaining Class I areas , the difference ranges from about . 06 deciviews to about . 47 deciviews , so about 4 . 7 percent change . So an imperceptible change to EPA definitions , less than 10 percent .

We also did a frequency comparison . So we

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# 178

looked at the 24

- hour periods for each year for that three

- year period , and we looked at what the individual impacts were for each of those 24

- hour periods , as compared to a threshold of . 5 deciviews and one deciviews . The results show that approximately half or

more of the number of Class I areas in the revised SIP

are comparable to that of the FIP . So the types of impacts coming out of the revised SIP modeling are comparable to the results that EPA produced for the four S C Rs in the FIP .

The BART rule relies upon the visibility component . As listed earlier , the cost effectiveness on dollar per ton by itself showed that the revised SIP was much more cost effective than either of the other two scenarios looked at .

Now , considering the visibility aspect of this in dollar per deciview , the same dollar that it took for each technology over the deciview improvement by the model results in a cost effect ive ness for the revised SIP over that of the FIP or the 2011 SIP .

So again , on a facility

- wide basis , the revised SIP comes up with better costs overall with the S N C R technology , the cost effectiveness is less in the other two options , the visibility is comparable and

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# 179 imperceptible between the FIP or the revised SIP , the visibility cost effectiveness is also less , and with the two - units shut down contained within the revised SIP scenario , you also get additional environmental benefits previously discussed that you don ' t achieve through either the FIP or the 2011 SIP .

Thank you . That concludes my summary . MR . ALVIDREZ : Okay . And it may be helpful to the Board if you might describe , since we ' re presenting the three of you

as a panel , what your respective roles were in terms of the BART analysis .

MR . LUCAS : Certainly . Black & Veatch , as I mentioned , took the lead in developing the over all work for the addendum , coordinating with Sargent & Lundy to provide the cost estimates , the technology review , what the costs would be for the S C R case , the S N C R case , as well as the revised SIP being two S N C Rs and two units retired .

Diane Fischer was the project engineering manager . She over saw the technology review step one , step two and step three of the BART process , as well as her team over saw coordination of the cost information coming in from Sargent & Lundy and their team .

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# 180

MR . ALVIDREZ : All right . Dr . Gaikwad , if you could provide the Board and the public with a brief over view of your pre filed testimony . MR . GAIKWAD : Sure .

As I mentioned , our function was to provide detailed cost estimate on S N C R and S C R technology . I followed all procedures described in the BART guidelines to prepare the cost estimate . The BART guidelines requires a three

- step process . We followed the BART guidelines , as well as the

- - something called Control Cost Manual , prepared by EPA ' s Office of Air Quality Planning and Standards .

The major points I want to bring here are about the S C R capital costs . There are certain design parameters that we use , as well as the operating parameters that are components of the cost of S C R .

One of the first thing is the EPA ' s FIP require that the S C R will be implemented to achieve . 05 pounds per million BTU NO x 

## , which requires design of the S C R with 0 . 03 pounds per million BTUs , which is quite stringent and is basically state - of

- the

- art technology , which also requires four layers of S C R re actor .

The second one is the location of plant site . The plant site is 5 , 300 feet above sea level , which

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# 181 basically increases gas volume by 30 percent . Because the re actors will be 30 percent bigger , that directly impacts the cost .

The third one at San Juan is a mine mouth plan t . And the coal quality is such that it has very large amount of ash , and larger the amount of ash , slower will be the gas velocity through SCR reactor . Again the re actor becomes larger , which increases the cost . The last one is the congestion . It ' s a extremely congested site with the S C R to be built in the

area between the economizer outlet and air heater inlet . The S C R will be installed above the bottom E S P by removing top ESP , which increases both the structural steel cost , as well as the foundation . It becomes more difficult for Units 2 and 3 because those are bounded by Units 1 and 4 for construction .

The other factor that impact the cost is the labor cost . The labor productivity index in State of New Mexico is 1 . 15 , which again increases the cost .

So where appropriate , we followed all the requirement for BART guidelines and as well as the Control Cost Manual . We also looked at the annualized capital cost , fixed O & M cost , variable O & M cost , as well

as the total annual cost .

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# 182

To summarize the cost , if you look at the revised State Implement ation Plan , which basically requires S N C R s on Units 1 and 4 , will be approximately $ 34 . 5 million in capital , with the annual cost of $ 13 . 6 million . But if you follow the EPA ' s FIP , which requires four S C Rs , on all four units , which will be close to $ 824 million in the capital cost and close to $ 109 million a year in annualized cost .

I would like to also note that based on the information published by PNM , PNM received engineer , procure and construct bids from four different bidders , and including all the costs , the range was $ 824 million to $ 910 million . So this supports S & L ' s cost estimates for S C R technology .

So it ' s my opinion that NME D has reasonably relied on our cost estimates in their revised SIP submittal , submittal that is before the E I B .

Thank you . That concludes my testimony . MR . ALVIDREZ : Thank you , Dr . Gaikwad . Ms . Fischer , if you could give us a brief

over view of your testimony , please .

MS . FISCHER : I would be happy to . Black & Veatch took the cost estimate s developed by Sargent & Lundy and did the cost

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# 183 effectiveness analysis .

Exhibit B V - 3 in our testimony is a table right out of our BART analysis which lays out the cost effectiveness calculation .

And how that works is you take the tons of NO x 

## that you can reduce and the capital costs , the annual costs , and then you take the capital costs and multiply it by something called a capital recovery factor , which is basically a way of annualizing the cost of capital . So you come up with an annual cost of the S C R , the S N C R , and you divide that by the tons of NO x 

## that are re moved to get a dollars per ton number .

So we did that in B V - - Exhibit B V - 3 , and

- - and from that you can see that the S C R - - the S C Rs are going to have for the

- - for the San Juan Station cost effectiveness of $ 6 , 218 a ton , the original SIP that the Board voted on in 2011 results in a cost effectiveness of $ 5 , 561 , and the revised SIP , which is the proposal before you today , results in a dollars per ton of $ 1 , 049 . So it is significant lower cost at a dollars per ton . Now , as Mr . Lucas said , the important thing here is visibility . So the other table I want to draw your attention to is on page 47 of our testimony , which

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# 184

takes those same annualized costs and divides by the deciview improvement , and that shows that the revised SIP is significantly more cost effective of the dollars per deciview , about $ 5 million , versus the FIP at $ 35 million and the original SIP at $ 28 million .

So the results of this analysis show that this is a cost - effective solution to this situation .

The other thing I ' d like to note for the Board , if you were to spend time lining up Black & Veatch ' s estimates from 2011 against S & L ' s estimates , you will see they are right on top of each other , and the differences are mostly explained by the additional engineering that S & L did over the last two years .

Also , as Dr . Gaikwad mentioned , they have four EPC bids that line up against all these numbers , as well . So I think you can have

- - my opinion would be that you have

- - you can have confidence that these numbers are correct , or close .

So that concludes my comments . MR . ALVIDREZ : Okay . Thank you very much . And with that , we would tender these witnesses for cross - examination .

MR . VOLKERDING : Any questions from the Board ?

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# 185

EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MR . HOLT : I don ' t have any questions for the witnesses but for PNM sort of generally , so maybe conversation with Mr . Alvidrez is appropriate . I don ' t know whether you want to do that now or later .

MR . VOLKERDING : No . Go - - give it a try . MR . ALVIDREZ : Am I under oath ? MR . VOLKERDING : Yes . MR . HOLT : Mr . Alvidrez , there ' s two things that are going on simultaneously .

One is the request by this Board to approve the revised BART determination incorporated into an alternative SIP , right ?

MR . ALVIDREZ : Correct . MR . HOLT : And second is certain promises that PNM has made , not necessarily to this Board but to the community that certainly are important to the community that ' s come here .

And somebody asked an earlier witness how do

we know that ' s going to happen , and the answer was ask PNM . MR . ALVIDREZ : All right .

MR . HOLT : So here I am . MR . ALVIDREZ : Well , I can partially respond ,

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# 186

and I would note we ' ll also have a senior vice

- president that will be under oath a little later today .

But as I think was pointed out earlier , in this proceeding , you know , the Term Sheet itself was filed with the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals , a little bit unusual sort of situation .

You know , when you have a - - a conflict pending before a court , to announce , you know , a partial

- - and it ' s partial in that not all the parties to that proceeding have joined into the agreement in principle , or the Term Sheet . But we filed that with the court . So I think , you know , we - - PNM has indicated very publicly its intentions that are spelled out in the Term Sheet . It has , you know , filed the Term Sheet with the court , made representations to the court that it intends to abide by the Term Sheet .

I think the company ' s actions up to date have demonstrated its good faith in wanting to abide by the terms of the agreement . It has taken some actions , notwithstanding the fact that this Board hasn ' t approved anything yet , and the EPA hasn ' t approved anything yet . But it has already started makin g payments to the Navajo Nation and the San Juan Economic Development Department . It ' s moving forward with , you know , necessary planning

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# 187

to implement this at significant cost .

So , you know , where

- - we are on track . The company has met every deadline that , you know , is applicable up to this point in time , and I have no information to suggest that there would be any - - any

reason other than for the failure of the proposal to be approved along all the necessary approvals for the company to - - to change its course of conduct in any way . MR . HOLT : If both this Board and the EPA provide the requisite approvals , would you regard the Term Sheet then as a contract with E D ?

MR . ALVIDREZ : That ' s an interesting legal question . And , you know , there are contracts that arise in writing , and there are contracts that arise , you know , implicitly and by course of conduct and what have you . You know , it ' s - - you know , one thing that has been made very clear , and I think everyone understands why , is , you know , EPA cannot contractually bind itself to approve a given rule . There is a process that it must - - must follow . And , you know , that ' s a large consideration in the structure of this agreement .

And there are a lot of lawyers on the Board here , I know they ' re cringing at the thought of , well ,

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# 188

how can you possibly , you know , live up - - or find this , you know , three

- page document to afford much comfort .

And I will just say that in that regard all the parties have worked in good faith and , you know , we have no reason to believe that any one of the parties is not going to continue to work in good faith to try and

see this thing through .

But , you know , at the end of the day , what we do want to see is the Term Sheet fully implemented . Whether that ' s , you know , a legal contract , you know , at the end or not , I don ' t know . But it is

- - it is the intent of the company to pursue this .

MR . HOLT : Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Any other Board questions ? Member Casciano . MR . CASCIANO : Yeah . On the issue of cost , that seems to continue to come up , and in some of the comments , I noted earlier the National Park Service stated that PNM over estimated the costs , and , of course , that was a big topic of the previous action in 2011 .

And I guess it disturbs me personally , having dealt with the EPA for 30 years and observed their tendency

- - and this is my own personal observation

- - of over - - over estimating the health benefits of actions and very much under estimating the cost , whether it ' s to

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# 189 jobs in the community , to society in general , to specific facilities or operators . But basically to all of us , right ?

And so it concerns me that this keeps coming up and there ' s such a difference in cost estimates .

I wonder specifically to EPA ' s guidelines , where they point to cost calculations based on their own manuals or generic formula , do they allow for the site

- specific determinations , the particulars that you factored into your analysis ? Do they allow that ?

I just would like throughout this process for

us to kind of close that gap between 300 million or , you know , a low number versus almost a billion dollars , a very high number .

MR . GAIKWAD : Yeah . I would comment on that

one . The Control Cost Manual has a special section

on the S C R , and it allows you to consider site

- specific terms . So if you use the Cost Control Manual , it allows you to consider site

- specific design criteria . And al so if you look at the costs that PNM received , the four bids , the actual bids , they were in the same range that

we came up with .

Now , the cost equations that Park District has used were developed by Sargent & Lundy , and those

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# 190 equations were very general equations . So when Park District used those equations , they did not take into account any site

- specific condition s which specifically reflect the number of factors . They did not take into account the site elevation , which increases cost by 30 percent . They did not take into account the labor productivity factor , which again would have increased the cost . If they use all those factors , the cost would have nearly doubled . And so if the Park District take s into account all those factors , the difference between the costs that we came up with and Park District came up with can be explained .

MS . FISCHER : I would like to - - MR . ALVIDREZ : Yeah , Ms . Fischer . MS . FISCHER : I would just like to add a couple things , because the EPA , you know , in their FIP spent a fair amount of time criticizing the Black & Veatch estimate . It ' s pretty brutal , actually .

And while they allow

- - while the OA P Q S manual does allow site

- specific factors , they

- - when you actually

- - when the rubber meets the road , they don ' t tend to take those into account .

And , you know , if any of the E P C bidders who bid on the total package project

- - and , you know , it

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# 191

was a competitive bid . If any of those bidders had been able to put their balance sheet at risk and bid the EPA price , they would have loved to under cut all their competitors , because they would have won the job at half the price . But that ' s not where those bids came in . With companies that had put their balance sheet on the line , based on the labor costs in the area and the congestion of this site

- - when that all came down to a number that they could stand behind and commit their balance sheet to , those numbers looked just like ours .

And the EPA and the National Park Service did not have to put their balance sheet behind their estimate . So I have to admit a level of frustration with that difference between those estimates , and I do feel that the numbers we ' re presenting are correct .

MR . CASCIANO : Thank you . I share your frustration . I mean , we should be able to agree on cost and then make the policy decisions , but to play up the cost difference and have that as a reason , I think , really clouds the policy decision .

But thank you for the time you ' ve put into the analysis . MR . VOLKERDING : Further Board questions ?

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# 192

I have one . And I ' ve been struggling how to ask it . It has to do with basically cost calculation .

And we have the baseline to FIP cost and the baseline to the SIP and then the baseline to the revised SIP . And I think the answer is no , but PNM is going to presumably lose revenue because it ' s shutting down two units . Is that a cost that is considered in evaluating the revised SIP ?

MS . FISCHER : I do not believe loss of revenue is allowed by the EPA - -

MR . VOLKERDING : Right . MS . FISCHER : - - methodology . MR . VOLKERDING : Yeah . And I don ' t think it is either , and I just wanted to make the point that I find that concerning , because then the

- - you know , the optimal thing for PNM to do is simply shut down completely , and then that doesn ' t cost anything , and we get great environmental benefit , and I don ' t think that that ' s necessarily the intent of the haze rule .

So - - MR . LUCAS : The initial intent , at least if you read the rule , specifies combustion controls . So the original submittal back in 2007 that tried to follow

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# 193

that policy procedure originally specified that as part of the technology that was being developed and installed through the consent decree action .

But through the evolution of this process , we ' re here today .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you . Any other

- - oh . MS . PEACOCK : Mr . Alvidrez , on the proposed revised SIP , were there any things in there that PNM would like to see that ' s different ?

You said you ' re fully supportive of it , but I ' d like your comment on that .

MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes , Madam Chair . We are fully supportive of the SIP as has been submitted . There are

no changes that we ' re requesting be made to the SIP .

You know , like the NMED , we are - - we have

some trepidation about any inclination that anyone might have to tinker with it , because while we - - the intent may be to clarify something or what have you , someone could construe it as changing the understanding .

But we do support it . MS . PEACOCK : And that includes the typographical and transcription errors that were submitted today , that you agree with those .

MR . ALVIDREZ : Correct , yes , yes . We

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# 194 support - - don ' t support the errors , we support the corrections .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . NMED , do you have any cross - examination questions ? MR . GRANTHAM : No questions .

MR . VOLKERDING : Mr . Gould ? MR . GOULD : No questions . Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Any members of the audience ? Okay . With that , thank you for your time . MR . ALVIDREZ : Thank you . And we would call Mr . Chris Olson up , and also ask Mr . Darnell to come up . While we won ' t be presenting these witnesses in a panel , I think it may be efficient just to have them seated .

( CHRIS OLSON and RONALD DARNELL were duly

sworn or affirmed . ) MR . ALVIDREZ : And with that , we would call Mr . Chris Olson .

And , Mr . Olson , we ' ve got an extra microphone here .

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# 195

CHRIS OLSON having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . ALVIDREZ : Q. If you could please state and spell your name for the record . A. My name is Chris Olson , C - H - R - I - S O - L - S - O - N . Q. And can you please state your current place of employment and job title . A. I ' m employed by PNM . I ' m the vice

- president of generation . Q. And can you tell the Board your job duties ? A. I have responsibility for strategic direction and operation of all PNM ' s generating facilities , as well as fuel procurement and wholesale power marketing functions . Q. And can you briefly summarize your educational background and relevant work history . A. I have 3 2 years in the power industry . I have

a bachelor ' s degree in mechanical engineering from the University of Minnesota . I ' m a registered professional engineer in the State of Minnesota . Q. And have you prepared pre filed direct testimony that has been submitted in this case as PNM

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# 196 Exhibit B ? A. I have . Q. And are there any corrections that you ' d like to make on the record to your testimony ? A. There are three . On page 2 , Table 1 , slightly more than halfway down , where it reads Delta ( P P A ) and the superscript says 12 , it should read 12 , 2

- - or 1 , 2 . I ' m sorry . 1 , 2 . Next correction is on page 10 , Table 3 . For the CO 2 

## emissions tons per year for the first case with 20 3 combined emissions , that figure should be 7 , 385 , 466 tons per year .

The last correction , in Exhibit C M O - 1 , under my tenure at Northern States Power , the term should be 19 8 2 through the year 2000 . Q. Thank you . And with those corrections to your pre filed testimony , do you now adopt that testimony here today under oath ? A. I do . MR . ALVIDREZ : And with that , we would move the admission into the

- - into evidence of PNM Exhibit B . MR . VOLKERDING : Motion accepted .

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# 197 ( Exhibit PNM B admitted into evidence . ) Q. ( BY MR . ALVIDREZ ) Mr . Olson , can you please provide the Board with a brief over view of your pre filed testimony . A. I will be brief . The purpose of my testimony is to provide an

over view of PNM ' s generation fleet and specifically the role that the San Juan Generating Station plays in that fleet ; review of the importance at San Juan providing safe and reliable electricity to our customers , as well

as the customers of the other owners of the San Juan Generating Station ; to explain the ownership structure and the economic impact the plant has to the Four Corners region ; and , lastly , provide a description of the plant ' s current and proposed air emissions control equipment . Q. All right . And there ' s been some discussion in the record thus far relating to assumptions about the cost of the proposed S C R installation at San Juan .

Can you clarify the record for us on the

- - on those costs ? A. I certainly hope I can add clarity , because there ' s been a lot of numbers thrown out . Black & Veatch and Sargent & Lundy did a fine job of trying to

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# 198

add clarity to that . I ' ll try to add to that .

I think any time you look at numbers , it ' s important to understand what ' s behind the numbers , so you ' re actually comparing like alternatives .

I think the decision before the Board today is really around FIP and SIP . So consequently , the numbers for SIP are in the $ 800 million range , as you ' ve heard from Black & Veatch and Stone & Webster for four S C Rs . That is not total probable cost , but that is indicative of capital costs for that installation .

That is best compared to the revised SIP , which is S N C R installation . The capital costs for S N C R installation is on the order of $ 36 million . So to me , that is a better comparison between all the numbers that

are being used .

I ' m not suggesting that those are total probable costs , but those are good perhaps indications of alternatives being considered . Q. And also for some clarification , there was - - there were some questions that the Board asked about the proposed reduction of the SO 2 

## limit and whether there was any plant modification or costs that were associated with that . Can you address that issue , please ? A. If I understand the question

- - on SO 2

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# 199 specifically or NO x 

## ? Q. SO 2 

## , the proposed reduction in the emission limit . A. Yeah . The current emissions limit on SO 2 

## for San Juan is 0 . 15 pounds per million B T U . Under the revised SIP , we agreed to lower the limit to 0 . 10 pounds per million B T U .

Moving down to that limit , at times , the current equipment is able to reach that limit , but at times , it ' s not . It currently has a system which will enhance the efficacy of the scrubber , which removes the SO 2 

## . It is equipment that adds diabasic acid to the process . It effectively acts as a catalyst to make the limestone more effective from SO 2 

## .

So the intent for

- - with PNM would be to increase the throughput of diabasic acid at an additional cost to us to reduce that limit . And that is

our strategy for reaching a new revised limit on SO 2 

## if it were adopted . Q. Thank you . And with that , we tender Mr . Olson for questioning .

MR . VOLKERDING : Members of the Board ? I have a couple . First one is fairly outside the scope , so you

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# 200

can say that if you want .

But in

- - on page 4 of

- - of your testimony , in Table 2 , it breaks out the ownership of the various units , and since Unit 3 is owned partially by the Southern California Power - - Public Power Authority , I ' m assuming that there must be some sort of agreement that the plant is making with them to continue to supply them power , or in some way keeping them whole through the shut down of that unit .

MR . OLSON : Short question , long answer . Because the number of owners across the entire facility , not just Unit 3

- - the number of owners have different needs and expectations going forward , we are in the process , and have been for a number of months , to try and strike an arrangement where those that want to remain in San Juan are able to do so and those that are able to depart can .

Part of that might include some swaps of ownership . It might include some short

- term power purchase agreements or other type of mechanisms that would allow them to remain whole .

MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . I think I know the answer , but wanted to just clarify . I was confused by this statement .

In - - it ' s on page 6 , in lines 12 through 18 ,

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# 201

there are some bullets talking about some of the plans of PNM , and line 17 talks about providing the million dollars for job re training . And then in the paragraph below , on line 19 , it mentions another million dollars .

I ' m just wondering , those are the same million dollars , correct ?

MR . OLSON : They are . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . And last question is on page 7 , and the paragraph Contribution to Tax Base .

If I read that correct , the numbers that are presented are current dollars ; is that correct ?

MR . OLSON : Correct . MR . VOLKERDING : So it takes $ 59 million a year in coal royalties and taxes to government and tribes . When Units 2 and 3 are shut down , that number would feasibly be cut in half ; is that correct ?

MR . OLSON : Presumably , yes . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . And the same with the other numbers that are listed in that paragraph , they ' re going to also be impacted , to some degree .

MR . OLSON : I can ' t speak to o much to the tax component to that , but certainly on the tax royalties ,

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# 202

yes . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay .

That ' s all my questions . Any other questions from the Board ? Any questions from the Environment Department ? MR . GRANTHAM : No questions . MR . VOLKERDING : Mr . Gould ? MR . GOULD : Yes , sir .

CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR . GOULD : Q. Good after noon , Mr . Olson . A. Good afternoon . Q. I don ' t think I have

- - can you hear me ? I don ' t think I have a microphone , but I can speak up . A. I can hear you fine . Q. Just to establish a baseline , the retirement of Units 2 and 3 , which is proposed in this revised SIP , will create a retirement of a 418

- megawatt block of power . Is that a fair summary ? A. For PNM ? Q. Yes . A. Yes . Q. Okay .

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# 203

As you heard in my comments when you were sitting here , our concern , of course , is with the rate impact of this plan . We ' ve supported it , but the way that we feel we can ameliorate or mitigate the rate impact , of course , is to have some say in what the replacement power is for that 4 18 .

So just that ' s kind of the direction my questions are going .

I ' m concerned because in the Term Sheet , in the last paragraph

- - I don ' t know if you have that in front of you . A. I do not . Q. Do you have a copy that you can refer to ? A. I do . Q. And I ' m referring to paragraph 4 . It is the very last paragraph of that Term Sheet . A. Yes . Q. And I ' m just going to read the relevant portion of that from my - - as a preface to my question .

It says , " PNM agrees that the natural gas combustion turbine to be cited at the San Juan Generating Station to partially replace the retired Unit 2 and Unit 3 coal capacity will under go BACT analysis , " and then goes on for the rest of the sentence .

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# 204 My concern is that looks as if PNM and the parties to this agreement believe that that combustion turbine , along with this exact citing , is a done deal , and I - - I also read your testimony at page 4 , lines 1 1 and 12 , going down to line 14 , it

- - the same kind of positive attitude about this block replacement power

seems to be reflected in that testimony . And I see on line 1 1 you say " PNM will . "

So I guess my concern is has P NM made a binding commitment , either through an oral contract or memorandum of understanding , about a chunk of replacement power that is represented by that combustion turbine ? A. On page 6 of my testimony , line 9 , although not part of the SIP , PNM must carefully consider economic impacts , and we have made commitments within the construct of the Term Sheet to indeed provide

- - to indeed install combustion training at San Juan site , however , recognizing that it will require approval by a different regulatory body within the State of New Mexico . Q. Well , maybe I can ask my question another way . In other words , is your commitment simply to apply for that and

- - and go to the commission with the evidence that you believe that shows this is one of the

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# 205

best options and

- - and sort of let the chips fall where they may with the commission ? A. Yeah . I ' m not really in a great position to

answer regulatory strategy , but

- - Q. Okay . A. - - PNM does believe that this is a good alternative for customers and for the San Juan site and Four Corners region . Q. Would that be a question for Mr . Darnell as the policy vice

- president of PNM ? A. I would defer to Mr . Darnell . Q. Okay . I looked through your testimony . I did not

see anything about this coal treatment that was mentioned in the NMED testimony .

Do you have any understanding of the coal treatment proposal that is

- - that is being considered by PNM ? A. I do . Q. Could

- - is there a potential that that coal treatment could improve the heat rate or the performance of the San Juan plant ? A. Unlikely , but the potential is there , and the

- - I did hear the questioning before . Our concern is that there could potentially be some detrimental

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# 206

effects to the boiler if we were to use that treatment .

So we ' re just trying to protect ourselves in

case there were some effects that we ' re not able to predict . That type of treatment has been used on very few units across this country , and it ' s very susceptible to different types of fuel and sensitive to different types of fuel and difference between types of fuel output analysis , and whether there ' s consequences .

We ' re just being cautious and being concerned that we fully understand before we commit to using it on

a long

- term basis . Q. Okay . Thank you . I believe those are all the questions I have for this witness .

Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . Are there any questions from members of the audience for the witness ?

No ? Okay . Thank you , Mr . Alvidrez . MR . ALVIDREZ : Thank you very much . With that , we would now call Mr . Ronald Darnell as our next witness .

And I believe Mr . Darnell has been sworn .

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# 207

RONALD DARNELL having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows :

DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR . ALVIDREZ : Q. So , Mr . Darnell , can you please state and spell your name for the record . A. Yes . My name is Ronald N . Darnell , spelled R - O - N - A - L - D N . D - A - R - N - E - L - L . Q. And can you tell us where you ' re employed and your job title , please . A. Yes . I ' m employed by PNM as the senior vice

- president for public policy . Q. And can you briefly explain to the Board what your job duties are . A. My job duties are - - I ' m responsible for the regulatory functions at PNM and TNMP . I ' m responsible for load forecasting , for the grade re source planning , for marketing and communications and governmental affairs . Q. And have you submitted a short bio as part of your pre filed testimony in this case ? A. Yes , I have . Q. And can you briefly summarize your educational background and work experience .

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A. Yes . I have a B S in business administration with an emphasis in accounting from California State University .

I worked for Xcel Energy and its predecessor companies from 19 8 2 to 2008 . While there , I was responsible for pricing in Texas , Colorado , New Mexico , Wyoming , Dakotas , Minnesota , and was constantly responsible for cost to service studies . I moved down to assume the vice

- president of regulatory affairs for PNM in 2008 .

And prior to my current responsibilities , I

was responsible for not only regulatory affairs , but at different points the operations for Texas - New Mexico Power , distribution and transmission businesses in Texas and our air compliance program . Q. And have you prepared pre filed direct testimony in this case , which we have filed of record as PNM Exhibit A ? A. I have . Q. And are there any corrections that you ' d like to make to your pre filed testimony ? A. Yes . I have three corrections . Q. Okay . If you could read those corrections into the record , please . A. Yes .

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# 209 Page 3 , line 15 , the word " effectiveness " should simply be deleted .

Page 9 , line 7 , the word " later " should be changed to " earlier . "

And finally , this is a little embarrassing , but on the last page of my testimony , my address is wrong . Strike Alvarado Square and replace it with Main Offices . Q. Okay . And with those corrections as you ' ve just detailed , do you now adopt your pre filed testimony in this proceeding under oath ? A. Yes . MR . ALVIDREZ : Mr . Hearing Officer , we would

move PNM Exhibit A into evidence formally now .

MR . VOLKERDING : So accepted . Thank you . ( Exhibit PNM A admitted into evidence . ) MR . ALVIDREZ : All right . Q. Mr . Darnell , can you please provide a brief

over view of your pre filed testimony in this case . A. Yes . And I will keep it brief . PNM is a public utility that provides electric generation , transmission and distribution services to

more than 500 , 000 businesses and residences in New

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# 210 Mexico . We are one of three investor

- owned utilities in the state , and we are the only publicly

- traded company that is actually headquartered in the State of New Mexico . We are the operator and part owner of the San Juan Generating Station . Therefore , we have a significant interest in the outcome of this proceeding .

PNM strongly supports the revised State Implementation Plan . Should the Board reject the plan , PNM and the other owners of San Juan will be contemplating compliance with the federal plan that has

a price tag of somewhere between 8 24 million and 910 million fully loaded . And this is really for the reduction of one emission , nitrous oxides .

PNM supports New Mexico Environment Department ' s revised State Implementation Plan for three fund amental reasons .

First , it meets the legal and technical requirements of the regional haze rules .

Second , it does this at a far lesser cost than the federal plan .

And third , it provides significant environmental benefits that the federal plan does not .

In terms of regional haze compliance , because the state plan calls for retirement of two units and the

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# 211 installation of selective non catalytic reduction technology on the remaining units , there will be a tremendous amount of reduction in NO x 

## and SO x 

## , and that

- - and that , as you have heard , leads to a visibility outcome very , very similar to the FIP . In fact , it ' s not even - - the difference isn ' t even discernible to the eye .

Second , in terms of cost , I ' m kind of a bottom line guy , but when I listened to Ms . Fischer describe her table on page 47 of the Black & Veatch testimony , it looks to me like on a per deciview basis the state plan is one - seventh the cost of the federal plan .

In terms of superior environmental benefits , I know you ' ve heard these numbers before , but I think it ' s worth repeating as we finish this up today . The state plan reduces emissions of sulfur dioxide 67 percent , particulate matter 50 percent , carbon monoxide 44 percent , volatile organic compounds 50 percent , carbon dioxide 50 percent , mercury 50 percent and combust

- - coal combustion residuals by 48 percent .

The federal plan doesn ' t touch these , they don ' t reduce those emissions at all .

In addition , the state plan reduces water usage at the plant by 53 percent . The federal plan reduces usage not one drop .

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PNM supports the state plan because it provides an effective and comprehensive way to improve regional haze , it allows PNM to maintain a diverse generation portfolio , and it does this in a way that less ens and minimizes the cost impact to our customers .

Therefore , I respectfully request the Board to approve the plan as presented .

Thank you . MR . ALVIDREZ : And with that , Mr . Darnell is available for questions .

MR . VOLKERDING : Members of the Board ?

EXAMINATION BY THE BOARD :

MR . VOLKERDING : I have

- - MR . FULFER : I have one . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . I ' m sorry . Go ahead . MR . FULFER : The

- - I have to go ahead and ask this question . The

- - at our last hearing , it seemed like you all had

- - PNM had up graded their plant just a couple years before and was being required to up grade it again . Is there any timeline in this plan or in this Term Sheet or in the plan going forward that once you get this completed , that you won ' t be required to

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# 213

up grade it again within the next two years ?

MR . DARNELL : My understanding , that is entirely correct . This is

- - this plan meets BART , and that won ' t be re visited within two years .

MR . FULFER : Okay . Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Nothing further ? Okay . Go ahead . MS . PEACOCK : Mr . Darnell , how does the proposed SIP revision fit into the

- - to PNM ' s long

- term energy policy ?

MR . DARNELL : Well , first , you know , we recognize

- - we all recognize that it ' s not good to be too long on coal , and so what this plan does for us is it reduces our exposure in coal by about 14 percent . I mentioned in my summary it diverse

- - it helps us diversify our supply portfolio . We ' re not getting coal .

You know , there ' s been some questions relative to our commitment in Farmington to make good on our promises . Just reiterate , you know , we are retiring two units . We have two units that will

- - that we will have ownership in , and those

- - those units are here , we ' ll operate them , and coal will still be a part of our portfolio , just a lesser part .

MR . VOLKERDING : I had a question on page 8 of your testimony , line 8 through 10 .

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You were providing some history on - - on the whole process , and that portion talked about how EPA did not agree to the original proposal of shutting down Units 1 and 2 .

And I was curious why they didn ' t like 1 and 2 . MR . DARNELL : I ' d be completely remiss to speculate

- -

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MR . DARNELL : - - as to why they did not like that . MR . VOLKERDING : On page 13 , lines 9 through 1 1 , and there ' s been a lot of discussion on this , how people that are basically , you know , employed by PNM are going to remain employed by PNM until attrition and those types of things .

So what kind of jobs are the people going to do if Units 2 and 3 will shut down ?

MR . DARNELL : If I ' m allowed to hand that back to Mr . Olson , who is responsible for those

- -

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . MR . DARNELL : - - types of issues , I ' ll do that . MR . OLSON : Only fair .

We ' re fortunate in one aspect , that there are

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# 215

a number of employees that are currently employed at San Juan that are eligible for retirement . They ' re a large number . In fact , in some sections of the plant , some

areas of the plant , we actually may have to hire .

In addition to that , we have the benefit of being able to flex up and down with contract employees , and we will use that to our full advantage . So I expect every one that wants to stay will have a meaning ful job and will have a productive job , happily ever after .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you . Any questions from NMED ? MR . GRANTHAM : No questions . MR . VOLKERDING : Mr . Gould ? MR . GOULD : Yes , just a few .

CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR . GOULD : Q. Good afternoon , Mr . Darnell . A. Good afternoon , Mr . Gould . Q. I noticed on the first page of your testimony your title is senior vice

- president of public policy . A. Yes . Q. And in that position

- - I know you ' re not an attorney , but in that position you have become familiar

- - you ' ve had to familiarize yourself with the New Mexico Public Utility Act , have you not ?

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A. Somewhat . Q. And you can speak about that act , the general provisions of that act from a policy perspective , can you not ? A. I think so . Q. Okay . And would you agree with me that the New Mexico Public Regulation Commission has the sole authority to authorize PNM to build a new generation plant ? A. That ' s correct . Q. Okay . There

- - and you were in the room when I was questioning Mr . Olson , were you not ? A. I was in the room . I was sitting next to him . Q. And this is just for the record , to - - since it ' s not being filmed .

But I want to make clear that

- - or have the

assurance that PNM has made no binding contractual commitments

- - prior to the ability of the Public Regulation Commission to review , has made no binding commitments about what kind of replacement power will be used to replace the 418 megawatts that will be lost with the closing of Units 2 and 3 . A. That ' s correct . And maybe let me just add one

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# 217 thing

- - Q. Sure . A. - - that might clear things up . Our commitment

- - we are committed to filing a C C N , Certificate of Convenience and Necessity , with the New Mexico Public Regulation Commission at the appropriate time , probably sometime in 20 15 , and the commitment that we have

- - that we ' ve made is that we will file that , and we will seek to build that C T here , in San Juan , with the associated pipeline , and we will do that . But , yes , we could not bind the PRC . It is definitely their decision . That process will be a very transparent process . But that ' s - - that ' s - - that is the limit of our commitment . Q. Okay . And the purpose of that C C N application will be to show that this option is the best power replacement option for that amount of megawatts .

Is that

- - is that a fair statement ? A. That ' s a fair statement , and the burden of proof is on PNM . Q. Okay . In answer to a question from the Board about whether or not we ' re going to have to repeat this

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# 218

process with respect to San Juan in another couple of years , you indicated in your answer that this proceeding , and if the EPA adopts the revised SIP , will settle the BART issues .

Do you recall that testimony ? A. Yes . Q. In your experience , is there any other set of regulations , however , that the

- - that the EPA could

use - - might conceivably use in the next couple of years to attack Units 1 and 4 and to try to effectuate an accelerated shut down of those units ?

In other words , are we going to have to do something else again just under another guise ? A. Well , we all know that the EPA will promulgate

a rule relative to carbon in 2014 . So that , obviously , is going to impact any possible plans . Q. Okay . Has PNM done an analysis of what that rule will cost with the Units 1 and 4 operating at the levels you anticipate ? A. Well , we don ' t know what the rule is . We ' re - - right now we ' re looking

- - we ' re examining what

we - - we ' re examining what our position is as to what the EPA ' s authority is to regulate carbon , and we are in the process based on that underst anding of estimating

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# 219

what this could cost .

But those numbers

- - I don ' t have those numbers , and the studies aren ' t complete . Q. Okay . I understand , too , that coal

- - that the EPA is re visiting the issue of whether to declare coal ash

as a hazardous or toxic substance .

Are you aware of those regulations ? A. I have very little awareness of

- - Q. Is there anybody in your panel of experts that

can address that and address whether or not that might be an avenue for another future collateral attack on the viability of Units 1 and 4 ? A. May I take a second to confer with Mr . Alvidrez ? Q. Sure . ( Discussion off the record . ) MR . DARNELL : The short answer is no . MR . GOULD : Okay . Q. My concern , of course , is you ' re aware of the history

- - I think you address it in your testimony

- - that it was just a few years ago in settlement of a lawsuit brought by

- - in part by the NMED that PNM stored bag houses and some other pollution control devices at San Juan , and they were installed on Units 2

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# 220

and 3 , and now that considerable investment is going to be abandoned .

And so my concern is are we going to face an up grade of Units 1 and 4 and going to have to abandon that invest ment in a couple years down the line ? A. You know , we ' re engaged in some speculation here , but one of the differences is today there are - - there are options for replacement power that I - - that make me believe that we will

- - that PNM will fully make good on its commitment to bring home the revised alternative at a cost less than the FIP .

As we go forward and think about possibility of future retirements , that hurdle is going to be more and more difficult to meet . So it ' s hard for me to imagine a scenario where Units 1 and 4 are not in service for , you know , the total foreseeable future , but well into the 20 20 s .

That ' s my opinion . Q. And the foreseeable future , by that do you

mean the expected life of the plant as it ' s been extended to 20 5 3 ? A. The

- - if the regulatory expected life is 20 5 3 , and they ' re - - right now there is nothing that we have committed to to change that . Q. Okay . One final question .

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Would PNM object if the

- - if the Board approves this revised SIP , would PNM object to the insertion of language

- - specific language in that revised SIP that basically stated that all replacement power alternatives were subject to the jurisdiction and the approval of the NM PRC ?

MR . ALVIDREZ : I think perhaps maybe I should

answer that question , actually .

As we tried to make clear in the course of this proceeding , you know , we are very reticent to change anything in the proposed SIP . And we - - I hope

we ' ve made it clear on the record in this case what PNM ' s perspective is with respect to , you know , the anticipated unit retirements , as well as the , you know , approval for jurisdictional generation in the future .

So I think , you know , the question of additional generation is not germane to the issue before this Board or that will ultimately go to the

- - the EPA . So we ' d be reluctant to agree or stipulate

- - to agree to any change in the

- - in the order that comes out of this Board .

I - - you know , without having confirmed with my client , I think we ' d certainly be willing to entertain some sort of perhaps statement into the record , stipulation along the lines that you ' ve

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# 222 discussed . I don ' t think what you ' re talking about is in dispute , but the appropriateness of having the Board interject that into the revised SIP is perhaps a little

- - little questionable and could up set the apple cart . MR . GOULD : Well , and not to put too fine a point on it , but the first paragraph of the Term Sheet does have very specific language saying that this whole agreement is specifically subject to all necessary EPA , Department of Justice approval and complies with section

so - and

- so of the Clean Air Act .

And I would

- - I would like to see - - and my clients would like to see something that express and that explicit in whatever order comes out of the

- - out of this Board , particularly since paragraph 4 of the Term Sheet does refer to a specific plant addition .

So I don ' t think it ' s not germane . And I would simply maybe suggest that we could

- - that we could do the

- - copy the same language and simply insert

a paragraph 4 that subject to approval by the New Mexico Public Regulation Commission and then go on , PNM agrees . And that will address my concerns in that regard .

So I ' ll just tender that for your consideration .

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# 223

But thank you . And thank you , Mr . Darnell . MR . DARNELL : Thank you , Mr . Gould . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . Any questions from the audience ? Okay . With that , turn it back over to you , Mr . Alvidrez .

MR . ALVIDREZ : Yes . Thank you very much , Mr . Hearing Officer .

That concludes our presentation of evidence . We thank the Board very much for its attention in this matter .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . We will take a 10

- minute break .

MR . MORROW : Wait . You ' ve got one over there . MR . VOLKERDING : I ' m sorry . Mr . Grantham . MR . GRANTHAM : Sorry to interrupt . I just wanted the Board to know there was also another chapter house president who would like to give

- - MR . VOLKERDING : Oh , thank you .

MR . GRANTHAM : - - public testimony . MR . VOLKERDING : Can we take a break first and then come back , have that , and then any closing

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statements from parties ?

Okay . Thank you . ( Proceedings in recess from 4:35 p.m. to 4:47 p.m. ) MR . VOLKERDING : Can I have a show of hands of how many people are interested in doing public comment ?

Okay . Just the two of you . So , yeah , please come on down , and

- - and then after these two public comments , this will be the last opportunity for public comment . HUBERT HARWOOD having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MR . HARWOOD : My name is Hubert Harwood , H - U - B - E - R - T H - A - R - W - O - O - D .

Good afternoon . My name is Hubert Harwood . I want to say a little bit about my clan first . I am actually of the Salt Clan , born for the folded arms people .

I am the president of the Upper Fruitland Chapter , a chapter neighboring Farmington and Kirtland ,

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# 225 with about 2 , 700 existing Navajo residents living within

our chapter boundaries .

I want to thank you for the opportunity to speak before you today on a decision that greatly impacts our Northern New Mexico communities and economy .

As a locally

- - local governing entity within the Navajo Nation , we represent the interests of our constituents .

Jobs are scarce on the Navajo Nation with an unemployment rate of over 50 percent , and any impacts on existing jobs has a trickle

- down effect on the livelihood of our people .

In fact , jobs in the natural resources , construction and maintenance are among the top job sector areas within my chapter and the Four Corners region . San Juan Generating Station and its coal supplier , San Juan Coal Mine , are the major employers of Navajo workers . 24 percent of the power plant workforce is Native American , primarily Navajo members . 45 percent of the San Juan Coal Mine is compromised of Navajo workers . 75 percent of the workforce of the two largest contractors at San Juan Generating Station are compromised of Navajo workers , also .

I am currently employed at San Juan Generating

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# 226 Station as an apprentice mechanic in the maintenance department . I work on Unit 1 , one of the two units that will remain open with this agreement .

I fully understand what it means to work at a power plant and not know the future

- - what the future holds regarding my future employment . I also understand how important these jobs are to the workers and their family , especially the young families just starting out . I myself have the resiliency to bounce back in several fields , agriculture , coal , power plant and just recently politics . Our youth and our jobs are why I have personally taken a stance to be involved and ensure the interests of my chapters

- - my chapter are represented .

Our preference as a chapter , certainly as an employee , would have been to keep all units open , but the re ality that

- - is that a compromise is necessary to

move forward .

And that compromise is the revised State Implementation Plan for the San Juan Generating Station . As a chapter , we followed the issue and had discussions about what to do , and I am here today to present a resolution before this body on behalf of the Upper Fruitland Chapter in support of the adoption of the revised State Implementation Plan for San Juan

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# 227 Generating Station .

Thank you for your time . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

SHARON C L A H C H I S C H I L L I A G E having been first duly sworn or affirmed , was examined and testified as follows : DIRECT TESTIMONY THE REPORTER : Would you state and spell your full name , please .

MS . C L A H C H I S C H I L L I A G E : Good afternoon . My name is Sharon C l a h c h i s c h i l l i a g e . I ' m - - THE REPORTER : You need to spell it . MS . C L A H C H I S C H I L L I A G E : Okay . Yeah . Sharon , S - H - A - R - O - N , C L A H C H I S C H I L L I A G E , C - L - A - H - C - H - I - S - C - H - I - L - L - I - A - G - E .

Okay . MR . MORROW : Whoa . MS . C L A H C H I S C H I L L I A G E : Okay . That was a wake

- up , wasn ' t it ?

Okay . I ' m a New Mexico State Representative , District 4 , and PNM is in my district . And I love PNM . PNM has employed many of my constituents , and I ' m very concerned about the constituents of my District 4 .

And it

- - the company has also employed many

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members of my family , many veterans who have

- - who left the job at PNM , and were killed in action , and as a result never returned , and PNM always came forth and helped us tremendously , helped us tremendously through this time . So I would like to also say that I support the adoption of the revised state implementation for San Juan Generating Station . And the reason I support this strongly is because I ' m concerned , number one , about my constituents ; number two , I heard my constituents , and they ' re all in favor of this . So if there ' s any way I

can help them , this is what I ' m going to do . I ' m going to state my support .

And I want to say that I really appreciate all the Board being here today to listen to us , and this is a very tedious task , because I do the same thing you do during the legislative sessions . And I want to thank you for being here in San Juan County , and I just want - - I hope that we can get the support that is necessary to get this alternative pushed through .

I worked in Washington , DC over - - just return ed from D C about three years ago , and we saw this coming , about

- - when Lisa Jackson was still there . And it was a concern of ours , and we wondered how it was going to work through . And I ' m watching it now . And

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there are a lot of things back when I was there that we wondered what the attitude might be , and it ' s folding out exactly the way we suspected it would .

And at that time , we were exhausted with USEPA , and I continue to be exhausted with USEPA , as you probably are , and as I know a lot of my constituents

are , as well .

So I just want to extend my help . If there ' s any additional way that I can help , let me know , and I

can get the senator , Senator Pinto , on board , as well , and we as a team can definitely do something , because this is our - - our district .

And thank you for being here . And thank you again . I appreciate all of this . And you ' ve had a long day . I think it ' s time to adjourn and go home .

Okay . Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . Okay . I will ask for closing argument - - or closing statements from counsel .

We ' ll start with Mr . Grantham . MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you , Mr . Hearing Officer , Madam Chair , members of the Board .

It has been a long day , and I ' m sure you ' re tired , and it gets difficult at this time of day to keep

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your thoughts together in a coherent manner . I will try to be

- - I know it ' s hard for me . I ' ll try to be concise in my - - in my closing argument , or closing statement . There are a couple little housekeeping things I want to mention .

First , I did not move for admission of NMED Exhibits 1 through 4 or 15 , and that wasn ' t really an oversight . It ' s just the fact that those are - - Exhibits 1 through 4 are basically the law . They ' re sections of the Clean Air Act and the Code of Federal Regulations , and they ' re not really exhibits in the proper sense , but we provide them in the notice of intent for the Board ' s convenience .

And the

- - similarly with the proposed statement of reasons , the regulations provide that the notice of intent is the place that we can supply you with our proposed statement of reasons .

But just for the sake of completeness , I ' ll

move for admission of Exhibits 1 through 4 and 15 .

MR . VOLKERDING : And accepted . ( Exhibits NMED 1 , 2 , 3 , 4 and 15 admitted into evidence . ) MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you . And I want to make absolutely clear what it is

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that we ' re asking the Board to adopt , what the SIP proposal consists of , and this is

- - specifically it ' s the June 27 th public review draft which was submitted in

- - which

- - there was a - - there was a version of the SIP that was submitted with our petition , and then we got comments from EPA , we made slight revisions , and provided notice to the Board that the public review draft had been

- - had been published .

And so that is what we are asking the Board to adopt . So with that , I ' ll begin my closing remarks by noting that the

- - under the Air Quality Control Act , the New Mexico Air Quality Control Act , that the duty of the Board is to prevent or abate air pollution .

And the act also provides that in making its regulations the Board should consider the character and degree of injury to or interference with health , welfare , visibility and property , and the public interests , including the social and economic value of

sources and subjects of air contaminants .

And the Board has heard a great deal of testimony today regarding the public interest s and the various aspects of that , including from the Sec retary of the Environment Department , Mr . Flynn , and the Navajo Nation and various chapter houses and numerous members

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of the public . And so I won ' t - - I won ' t try to recapture that or to restate that , those

- - those

reasons , much to your relief , I ' m sure .

But I would like to focus on the

- - the more

narrow legal requirements that are at issue in approval of this State Implementation Plan . And as you heard several witnesses , Ms . Bisbey

- Kuehn and Mr . Darnell , I believe , articulate , that it ' s really the

- - what approval comes down to is the five statutory factors that are provided for in the act and in EPA regulations .

And clearly when you apply those factors , clearly the state alternative is the best

- - the best BART , the Best Available Retrofit Technology determination .

Two of the factors can be disposed of quickly . Existing controls , we ' re all in agreement - - at least the Department and EPA are in agreement that existing controls are not sufficient to meet the Best Available Retrofit Technology requirements . And I - - PNM is also in agreement in that

- - at this point in the game . The remaining useful life really doesn ' t factor one way or another , because it ' s the same for all scenarios . So really it comes down to three factors , and

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as you ' ve heard several times throughout the day , that

one of the primary differences is in cost .

One of the primary factors that demonstrates the superiority of the state alternative is the cost , the cost of roughly 34 million as compared to 861 million

- - 861

- - 100 million

- - I ' m sorry - - 861 million

- - that would be another number

- - for the four S C R scenario . So clearly in terms of costs , the state alternative is superior .

It also

- - another factor is the energy and

non air impacts . You ' ve heard a lot of testimony about that in terms of the reduced use of raw materials and of waste products . The limestone for the scrubbers , activated carbon , less coal use , less water generation , and less solid waste generated .

And you have heard specific numbers , and those

are in your written testimony . I won ' t go through those again . And then , lastly , the visibility benefits , which , as you ' ve also heard from Dr . Kim and other witnesses for PNM , that for

- - the state alternative receives a visibility improvement that ' s virtually indistinguishable from the four S C R scenario . It ' s less than half a deciview difference in all Class I areas . And in fact , in six of the Class I areas , it ' s actually

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# 234 superior to the four S C R plan .

And I just

- - at this point , I want to emphasize that we ' re comparing it to the four S C R plan , which is also what the FIP requires , but this is not

a - - the comparison is not a better than BART comparison .

And this is kind of a legal distinction , that there ' s a provision in the Regional Haze Rule for alternative programs , like such programs that we - - similar to what we have for SO 2 

## , that will require a demonstration that your alternative is better than BART .

This is not a better than BART determination . This is a determination of BART . And in making that determination , we ' re comparing the different scenarios . One of those scenarios is the four S C R scenario , which happens to be the FIP , but our determination is that the state alternative is BART , not that it is better than

some other BART .

So with that , I would respectfully request that the Board adopt the State Implementation Plan as contained in the June 27 th public review draft .

And one final point in regard to the issue of including something in the SIP addressing the PRC jurisdiction .

I shared the concerns that Mr . Alvidrez

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# 235 articulated in terms of making any changes to the SIP , and

- - as we stated earlier , and I think as Secretary Flynn stated , we are very - - caution in the strongest term possible not to make any substantive changes to the SIP . If

- - there may be a possibility of addressing that through the statement of reasons , through a - - some kind of acknowledgment that the PRC has jurisdiction

over what it has jurisdiction over . However , I don ' t really see that the

- - the utility of that . I don ' t think this Board

- - what this Board says about the PRC ' s jurisdiction changes the PRC ' s jurisdiction in any way .

And if

- - I guess if we had language in front of us , we could talk

- - we could consider it , but it ' s somewhat difficult at this point in time to consider that on a purely abstract manner .

And there is also a provision in the Term Sheet that requires that PNM will make all

- - all reasonable efforts to acquire the necessary approvals to obtain the shutdown , and I think the fact that that ' s in the Term Sheet is evidence that it was envisioned that PNM would have to seek approval from others besides this Board . So with that , I - - I won ' t take up any more of your time .

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I would also like to add my thanks , my appreciation to the Board for your service and for the different perspectives and expertise that you bring and the hard questions that you ask , and we appreciate that you give the SIP the consider

- - consideration that it ' s - - that it ' s due .

So with that , thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you . MS . PEACOCK : I just have a question for clarification .

So it ' s Chapter 10 , Appendix D , both the 6 / 27 public review draft and Appendix G , the Term Sheet ; is that right ? That ' s what you ' re asking that we adopt into the SIP ?

MR . GRANTHAM : Yes . Yes . That ' s correct . MS . PEACOCK : Okay . You didn ' t mention the Term Sheet , so I want ed to - -

MR . GRANTHAM : Yeah . Thanks for that clarification .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you . MR . GRANTHAM : Thank you . MR . VOLKERDING : Mr . Alvidrez . MR . ALVIDREZ : Just very briefly , if I may

a ddress the Board from here .

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Mr . Grantham went into some detail about the factors that the Board is to consider , and certainly we agree with those , and also agree with his statement with respect to proposed modification to the rule to reflect jurisdictional issues between this Board and the PRC . I ' m not sure that this is really the time or context to do that or what

- - what binding effect it would have on

a going forward basis .

I hope that we ' ve been clear on the record about what , you know , our perspective is with respect to the additional necessary approvals .

So with that , I ' d simply say thank you once again for your attention and service with respect to this matter . We do appreciate it .

We also appreciate all of the work that the Department has under taken in connection with this process . You know , they certainly took the lead on this and , you know , brought it before this Board in a timely

manner and in a very complete way and in such a way that

we fully support it , and we ' d request again the adoption of the proposal as presented by the Department .

We think the record in this case has been well developed with respect to the five

- f actor BART analysis and that there is

- - there are ample grounds for this Board to approve the action that ' s been proposed by the

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# 238 Department .

So with that , again , we ' d say thank you very much . MR . VOLKERDING : Thank you .

Mr . Gould , would you like to make a closing statement ? MR . GOULD : On the advice of my media advisor , Mr . Ernie C ' de Baca , I think I ' m done .

MR . VOLKERDING : Okay . Thank you . Are there any - - is there any reason to keep the record open in

- - to the hearing ?

Hearing none , we ' ll close the record on the hearing . Thank you .

And I will turn the meeting back over to the Chair . MS . PEACOCK : Okay . We ' re going back on to the agenda , and I ' d like to make a motion that we revise the agenda so that we have the deliberations for 13

- 0 2 right

now , then move to item number 8 , having the hearing in EIB 13

- 0 3 , and then follow that with the deliberations for 13

- 0 3 . And I believe the Board would like to just power through tonight , if we can , to get through all of this .

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And will that inconvenience anyone , if we stay ? MR . HOLT : Second the motion .

MS . PEACOCK : Any discussion ? Okay . All in favor ? ( Simultaneous responses . ) MS . PEACOCK : Any opposed ? So we ' re going to move on to deliberations in 13

- 0 2 . As stated in the petition of the Department , this is a request for a regulatory change to replace in the 2011 Section 309 ( g ) SIP the following Chapter 10 , Best Available Retrofit Technology ( BART ) evaluation , Appendix D , New Mexico Environment Department BART Determination for San Juan Generating Station .

Those are both the July 27 , 2013 , public review drafts with suggested corrections for typographical and transcription errors as contained in Exhibit 16 presented today , and that will also include Appendix G , the Term Sheet .

So that is the request to the Board , to consider that .

Would anyone like to present their comments . Okay . I - - oh . MR . HOLT : If everyone wants to be shy , I ' ll

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# 240 jump in here .

I ' m in favor of the proposal . I think as a practical matter we have a choice between what ' s proposed here and what the federal government would otherwise have us do . What the government - - federal government would otherwise have us do doesn ' t do a thing that advantages beyond what is proposed here and certainly would cost us a great deal more .

I think that clearly the five elements , this being a BART , are met , and I like our BART better than I like the federal government ' s BART .

MS . PEACOCK : Well , I ' ll say we ' re all

- - we , the Board , are disappointed that our 2011 SIP was not accepted by the EPA , and we ' re disappointed that we have to come back to this for um , and we know you ' ve all put in a lot of work in 2011 and again now , and so have we .

But - - and then there ' s been this litigation . And actually , I ' m very pleased and surprised that the three parties , the Department , the EPA and PNM , were all able to reach a Term Sheet during this litigation . And litigation doesn ' t help the environment . I understand it ' s a non binding Term Sheet , but it ' s helping to push the ball forward towards resolving this .

So I ' m also in support of accepting the proposal from the Department .

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I have an inclination to tinker , as you all know , and I ' m going to curb that and recommend that we not change anything .

Regarding the PRC comment , we - - I don ' t have familiarity with PRC . I would not be comfort able saying anything about what those PRC rules are . I think there ' s sufficient evidence in the record that can support what the parties who do know more about PRC have to say about that process .

And again , we ' re just pushing this forward one step at a time if this Board adopts what was suggested .

I ' d like to put into the record , as well , the Clean Air Act 169 A ( g ) ( 2 ) requires that BART determinations shall take into consideration , one , the cost s of compliance ; two , the energy and non air quality environmental impacts of compliance ; three , any existing pollution control technology in use at the source ; four , the remaining useful life of the source ; and five , the degree of improvement which may reasonably be anticipated to result from the use of such technology .

Also , our Board is required under the New Mexico Air Quality Control Act , NM S A 19 78 Section 74

- 2

- 5 . E , to give weight it deems appropriate to all facts and circumstances , including but not limited to , one , character and degree of injury to or interference

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# 242 with health , welfare , visibility and property ; two , the public interest , including the social and economic value of the sources and subjects of air contaminants ; and three , technical practicability and economical

- - economic reasonableness of reducing or eliminating air contaminants from the sources involved and previous experience with equipment and methods available to control the air contaminants involved .

I believe that there was ample testimony , both written and oral , during this hearing to meet all those requirements . In particular , Mr . Darnell summarized a lot of the economic and visibility benefits .

Mr . Grantham , you also summarized many of these points . Mr . Kim

- - or Dr . Kim , his graphs were very helpful .

MR . VOLKERDING : I had a much longer statement , but I ' m going

- - in the

- - for time and to not up set the apple cart , as has been used a couple times today , I will temper some of my statements .

Mainly I wanted to comment that I - - first of all , I think that the NMED and PNM have done an out standing job of showing that the alternative SIP is superior to the EPA ' s FIP , both from an environmental perspective , as well as an economic perspective .

What I did want to touch on briefly is

- - is

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the disappointment that we are here doing this again anyway , that the EPA basically refused to review the record from the 2011 hearing .

In questioning Secretary Flynn this morning , he had made the statement that he felt EPA was working in good faith and

- - and since we have not been privy to all those conversations , I will have to take his statement at face value .

From the perspective here , however , it doesn ' t appear that way , solely because Secretary Flynn felt that even if NMED and PNM were successful in the Tenth Circuit , that EPA would merely review the 2011 SIP and still impose their Federal Implementation Plan and not consider the additional information that was provided during that hearing , and seemed to be relying only on data from 2007 .

And so it appears to be far more of a philosophical or political decision that they are making , as opposed to truly following the five points of the Clean Air Act .

I do think that this petition , however , does do an out standing job of out lining each of those five points and showing that the alternative is an excellent proposal , and would therefore also support the petition before the Board .

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MS . PEACOCK : Any other Board comments ? Greg ? MR . FULFER : Want me to go ? MS . PEACOCK : Yeah . MR . FULFER : I ' m also disappointed . I think there ' s a - - I feel like the people of New Mexico is

once again taking the economic hit . I ' m disappointed . Seems like there ' s a lot of un funded mandates that ' s put

on New Mexico . The vagueness of the terms leaves a lot to interpretation .

I think the lack of time to do studies on the amount of

- - that New Mexico actually affects these

areas is a critical thing that we ' re not looking at . I think the

- - just the lack of the requesting federal

re search funding to find an answer to what our problem really is is finding clean coal . I think there should be money put in place from the federal government when they request these mandates .

It ' s - - all these are issues that I hope that will be on the radar of the leadership , and I ' ll have to applaud the

- - the Department and the Governor for filing the lawsuit and com ing to terms instead of going with the federal FIP .

I feel like the harder the economics are on the people , the more the environmental concerns are

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created , and I think that ' s what New Mexico has to keep fighting for .

But in the light of everything , I guess I will have to support the issue .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . Any other comment ? MR . CASCIANO : I just have a brief comment on the

- - on the technical side and the legal side , it does appear that the agreement comprehends and comes to the

same determination on the Best Available Retrofit Technology , which we spent so much time on as a Board and others in the audience in 2011 .

So I do see that as affirmation that we followed the Clean Air Act , as John said , and

- - and

came to the correct interpretation , balancing all the

- - all the factors for the amount of environmental gain .

So we did confuse during this hearing , in my opinion , the reductions due to the control technology

versus the elimination of the operation , which is , you know , a reduction , and it counts towards reduction , but it ' s a different type of reduction , and I think the intent of , you know , the whole grand scheme of the Clean Air Act and the different provisions is to do things that are economically

- - economically reasonable and appropriate and feasible .

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And so I think that the agreement recognizes that even though the facility is giving up half the production to eliminate the emissions to kind of do the balance sheet activity of what the over all impacts are .

But I ' ll support the resolution as proposed by the Department in terms of the revised SIP .

MS . PEACOCK : Any other comments ? Okay . Is there a motion ? MR . MORROW : I ' ll move . MS . PEACOCK : Okay . What are you moving ? MR . MORROW : That we accept the

- - I don ' t have a - - I don ' t know the

- - between

- - where is it ?

MS . PEACOCK : You can just say the

- - MR . MORROW : The request for regulatory change that re places the 2011

- - I can ' t read it that far away . Read it for me .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . I ' ll help with the motion here . We ' ll just simplify it . The motion would be to approve the request from the Department as previously stated . MR . MORROW : Right .

MR . HOLT : Second .

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MS . PEACOCK : Any further discussion ? Okay . All in favor ? ( Simultaneous responses . ) MS . PEACOCK : Any opposed ? Okay . The vote was unanimous . I ' d like to go to the statement of reasons . Could the Board go to that . There ' s been an Order and Statement of Reasons for Adoption of SIP Revisions proposed by the Department .

I sign the statement of reasons as the Chair , and I ' d like some discretion from the Board to go through and revise it to conform with what was said today , and I ' d like to go through the paragraphs or any changes you might have .

One of the

- - I would like to add a paragraph that

- - something to the effect that the Board continues to believe that the 2011 SIP was adequate and sufficient . I don ' t have the exact wording for that , but something along those lines .

I ' d also like to add a paragraph about the public comment that we received , and there ' s a lot of other little changes just to reflect the actual facts that occurred today .

MR . VOLKERDING : So what are you asking ,

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# 248 permission to do that , or did you want us to go through this now ? I ' m sorry .

MS . PEACOCK : Are there any - - are there any paragraphs , is there anything that the Board would like to change in the statement of reasons ?

MR . VOLKERDING : I don ' t have any . The only comment I would make is I ' m still not comfortable even in the statement of reasons putting something in there about PRC ' s involvement with

- - and PNM and that inter play , for the sole reason that regardless of what we do or do not say in that context does not impact PRC at all . PNM will have to apply for whatever permits through them that are regulatorily required , and I would rather us be silent .

MS . PEACOCK : And I agree with that . Are there any other comments on the statement of reasons ?

And I ' ll make a motion after that . Okay . I ' ll move that we adopt the statement of reasons with revisions to be made by the Chair to correct some of the facts , for instance , getting rid of September 6 th , filling in the dates , adding a paragraph about the Board believing that the 2011 SIP was adequate and sufficient , filling out paragraph 14 about who filed

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the notice of intents , adding a paragraph about the public comment , add ing two paragraphs , 18 and 19 , that

we believe the testimony

- - that there is ample written and oral testimony to meet these requirements , and that the Board considered these facts and circumstances , and that there was a unanimous vote to accept the proposed revisions . MR . VOLKERDING : Second .

MS . PEACOCK : Okay . Any discussion ? Okay . All in favor ? ( Simultaneous responses . ) MS . PEACOCK : Any opposed ? Okay .

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STATE OF NEW MEXICO ) ) ss . COUNTY OF BERNALILLO )

I , CHERYL ARREGUIN , the officer before whom the foregoing proceeding was taken , do hereby certify that the witnesses whose testimony appears in the foregoing transcript were duly sworn or affirmed ; that I personally recorded the testimony by machine shorthand ; that said transcript is a true record of the testimony given by said witnesses ; that I am neither attorney nor counsel for , nor related to or employed by any of the parties to the action in which this proceeding is taken , and that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney

or counsel employed by the parties hereto or financially interested in the action .

NOTARY PUBLIC CCR License Number : 21 Expires : 12 / 31 / 2013 My Commission Expires : 12 / 12 / 15

## $ **$ 1**  **, 049**  [2] - 170 : 8, 183 : 20 **$ 1**  **, 050**  [ 1 ] - 170 : 8 **$ 109**  [ 1 ] - 182 : 8 **$ 150** **, 000**  [1 ] - 32 : 7 **$ 28**  [ 1 ] - 184 : 5 **$ 35**  [ 1 ] - 184 : 5 **$ 36**  [ 1 ] - 198 : 13 **$ 400**  [ 1 ] - 113 :21 **$ 430**  [2] - 90 : 5, 90 : 25 **$ 5** **, 561**  [ 1 ] - 183 : 18 **$ 59**  [ 1 ] - 201 : 14 **$ 6** **, 218**  [2] - 170 : 10 , 183 : 16 **$ 6** **, 228**  [ 1 ] - 170 : 9 **$ 750**  [ 1 ] - 29 : 17 **$ 80**  [ 1 ] - 89: 13 **$ 800**  [ 1 ] - 198 : 7 **$ 805**  [ 1 ] - 29 : 17 **$ 824**  [2] - 182 : 7 , 182 : 12 **$ 910**  [ 1 ] - 182 : 13



## '

**' 11**  [ 1 ] - 172 : 16

**' 50** **s** [ 1 ] - 157 :23

**' 60** **s** [ 1 ] - 157 :23

**' 80** **s** [ 1 ] - 96 : 16

**' 95**  [ 1 ] - 153 : 19 

## 0

**0 .** **03** [ 1 ] - 180 :21 **0 .**  **10** [ 1 ] - 199 :6 **0 .**  **15** [ 1 ] - 199 : 5 **0 .** **20** [ 1 ] - 113 : 3 **0 .** **23** [3] - 79 : 5, 80 : 17 **023** [ 1 ] - 113 : 5 **05** [1 ] - 180 : 19 **06** [1 ] - 177: 22 

## 1

**1** [40] - 7 :4 , 7: 14, 32 : 5 , 49: 6 , 68 :22 , 70 : 18, 71 : 19, 73 : 5, 73: 7 , 79: 3 , 91 : 1 , 108 : 13 , 123: 13 , 123 : 14 , 123: 16 , 123 : 18 , 126 : 14 , 134 : 20 , 135: 17 , 135 : 25 , 142 : 19 , 144 : 24 , 145: 13 , 181 : 17 , 182 : 3 , 196 : 6 , 196 : 8, 196 : 9, 214 :4 , 214 : 5, 218 : 10 , 218 : 19 , 219: 13 , 220 :4, 220 : 15 , 226 : 2 , 230 : 8, 230 : 10 , 230 : 20 , 230 : 22 **1 ,**  **100** [1 ] - 143: 18 **1 .**  **15** [ 1 ] - 181 :20 **1 .** **c** [5] - 48: 20, 49: 7 , 79: 1 , 80 : 19 , 123 : 6 **1 .** **d** [2] - 49: 10 , 79: 8 **10** [24] - 7: 21 , 8 : 8 , 16 : 16, 69 : 2 , 69: 18, 69: 20, 75 : 6 , 78: 13, 78: 18, 85 : 6 , 86 : 24, 113 : 24 , 115: 7 , 115: 8 , 115 : 10 , 124 : 14 , 162 : 13 , 177: 10 , 177 : 12 , 177: 24 , 196 : 10 , 213: 25 , 236 : 11 , 239: 12 **10 ,** **200** [ 1 ] - 131 : 1 **10 -** **2** [3] - 114 : 22 , 115 : 3, 118 : 2 **10 -** **5** [2] - 114 : 22 , 115 : 12 **10 -** **minute** [1 ] - 223 : 14 **10 .**  **5** [ 1 ] - 54 : 8 **100** [3] - 4 :21 , 126 : 13 , 233: 6 **104** [ 1 ] - 4 :23 **106** [ 1 ] - 4 :25 **10 :** **38** [ 1 ] - 65 : 18 **10 :**  **52** [ 1 ] - 65 : 19 **10 a**  [4] - 7 :22 , 77: 20 , 86 : 16, 86 : 24 **10 s**  [ 1 ] - 161 : 16 **11** [10] - 7: 23, 69: 8 , 69: 14, 81 : 24, 85 : 16 , 85: 17, 86 : 24, 204 :4 , 204 : 8, 214 : 13 **11 .** **25** [1 ] - 148: 5 **110** [ 1 ] - 5 :6 **110 .** **( a** **) (** **2 )** **( D**  [1 ] - 126 : 21 **1100** [ 1 ] - 2 : 16 **119 ,** **000** [ 1 ] - 91 : 21 **119 ,** **592** [ 1 ] - 91 : 16 **1190** [ 1 ] - 2 : 10 **11 :** **20** [ 1 ] - 87 : 2 **11 :**  **58** [ 1 ] - 109 : 20 **11 a**  [4] - 7 :25 , 67: 22 , 86 : 16, 86 : 25 **12** [8] - 8 :4, 82 : 19, 83: 6 , 86 : 25 , 196 : 8, 200 : 25 , 204 : 5 **12 ,**  **000** [ 1 ] - 104 : 17 **12 /** **12 /** **15** [ 1 ] - 250 : 22 **12 /** **17 /** **07** [4] - 45 : 15 , 45: 16, 45 : 22 , 46 : 1 **12 /** **31 /** **2013** [ 1 ] - 250 : 20 **121 ,** **000** [ 1 ] - 91 : 22 **128** [ 1 ] - 5 : 7 **12 a**  [5] - 8 : 5 , 82 : 5, 86 : 16, 86 : 25 **13** [2] - 140 : 8 , 214 : 12 **13 ,**  **000** [3] - 74 : 1 , 119 : 5, 119 : 10 **13 ,**  **000 -** **ton** [ 1 ] - 119 : 3 **13 -** **02** [6] - 10 : 2 , 11 : 1 , 110 : 6, 162 : 20 , 238 : 19 , 239: 9 **13 -** **02 (** **R** [ 1 ] - 1 : 3 **13 -** **03** [2] - 238 :21 , 238 : 22 **13 .** **6** [ 1 ] - 182 : 5 **130** [ 1 ] - 74 : 6 **131** [ 1 ] - 5 : 9 **139** [ 1 ] - 5 : 11 **13 th**  [1 ] - 72 : 2 **14** [6] - 76 : 3 , 83 : 9, 170 : 14 , 204 : 5 , 213 : 14 , 248: 25 **143** [ 1 ] - 5 : 13 **146** [ 1 ] - 5 : 15 **149** [ 1 ] - 91 : 23 **15** [7] - 8 : 6, 128 : 21 , 169 : 24 , 209: 1 , 230 : 8 , 230 : 20 , 230 : 22 **15 -** **minute** [2] - 65: 17, 162 : 14 **150** [3] - 5 : 17 , 32 : 3 , 137 : 3 **151** [ 1 ] - 5 : 19 **153** [ 1 ] - 53: 9 **155** [ 1 ] - 5 :21 **157** [ 1 ] - 5 :23 **158** [ 1 ] - 5 :25 **15 th**  [1 ] - 20 : 24 **16** [11 ] - 8: 8 , 70 : 3 , 75: 7 , 84 : 14 , 85: 19, 86 : 7 , 86 : 17 , 86 : 25, 170 : 1 , 239 : 19 **167** [ 1 ] - 6 : 5 **169 A**  [1 ] - 7 :4 **169 A** **( g** **) (** **2** [ 1 ] - 241 : 13 **169 B**  [ 1 ] - 7:4 **17** [1 ] - 201 : 2 **17 ,**  **000** [ 1 ] - 92 : 2 **175** [2] - 8 :24 , 9 : 9 **17 th**  [2] - 20 : 24 , 57: 5 **18** [5] - 4 : 5, 112 : 24 , 113 : 6, 200 : 25 , 249: 2 **185** [ 1 ] - 6 :6 **19** [4] - 100 : 21 , 168 :4, 201 :4, 249 :2 **195** [ 1 ] - 6 : 8 **197** [ 1 ] - 8 : 19 **1970 s**  [1 ] - 96 : 15 **1972** [ 1 ] - 155 :25 **1978** [ 1 ] - 241 :22 **1980 s**  [1 ] - 97 : 1 **1982** [2] - 196 : 16 , 208 : 5 **1991** [ 1 ] - 158 :2 **1996** [ 1 ] - 155 :25 **1999** [ 1 ] - 37 : 19 **1 :** **30** [1 ] - 109 : 17 **1 :** **36** [1 ] - 109 : 21 

## 2

**2** [40] - 7 : 5 , 61 : 22 , 68: 20, 70 : 21 , 71 : 19 , 71 : 21 , 72 : 3 , 72 : 13, 72 : 21 , 74 : 20, 85 : 14 , 90 : 8 , 90 : 17 , 91 : 14, 98: 17, 110 : 19 , 112 : 1 , 119 : 14 , 130 : 25 , 135 : 19 , 137: 7 , 144 : 24 , 161 : 19 , 169 : 24 , 170 : 1 , 181 : 16 , 196: 6 , 196 : 8 , 196 : 9, 200 : 3, 201 : 17 , 202 : 18 , 203: 23 , 214 :4, 214 : 6, 214 : 18 , 216 : 24 , 219: 25 , 230 : 22 **2 ,** **308** [1 ] - 148:4 **2 ,**  **700** [1 ] - 225: 1 **2 .** **75** [ 1 ] - 134 : 1 **20** [3] - 34 : 5 , 129: 3 , 170 : 2 **20 ,**  **000** [ 1 ] - 134 : 3 **20 .**  **1 .**  **1** [2] - 11 :4 , 76 : 11 **200** [2] - 98: 25, 137 : 3 **200 ,** **000** [ 1 ] - 136 : 1 **200 -** **megawatt** [1 ] - 32 : 3 **2000** [ 1 ] - 196 : 16 **2001** [5] - 77 : 12 , 83: 21 , 84 : 22 , 96 : 17 , 118 : 6 **2002** [2] - 84 : 24 , 118 : 7 **2003** [3] - 83 : 21 , 84 : 24, 118 : 7 **2006** [3] - 37 : 3, 67: 15, 68 : 2 **2007** [7] - 20 : 24 , 21 : 11 , 57 : 5 , 169 : 2 , 169 : 5, 192 : 25 , 243: 16 **2008** [2] - 208 : 5 , 208 : 10 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

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# 1

**2009** [2] - 21 : 2 , 148 : 3 **2010** [ 1 ] - 96 : 17 **2011** [37] - 14 : 22 , 15: 19, 16 : 16, 19 : 16 , 20 : 2 , 20 : 18 , 20 : 24, 26 : 20, 71 : 22 , 73 : 13 , 89:4 , 89: 10 , 125 : 1 , 125 :4, 125 : 8, 125 : 17 , 125 : 21 , 153: 19 , 169 : 10 , 169: 11 , 176 : 5, 177 : 2 , 177 : 17 , 178 : 21 , 179: 6 , 183 : 17 , 184 : 10 , 188 : 20 , 239: 12 , 240 : 13 , 240 : 16 , 243 : 3, 243 : 12 , 245 : 12 , 246: 17 , 247 : 18 , 248: 24 **2012** [3] - 15 : 5, 169 : 6 **2013** [ 17] - 1 : 15 , 7 : 14 , 68: 6 , 68 : 13 , 71 : 18, 72 : 2 , 72 : 5 , 72 : 12 , 72 : 18, 73 : 10 , 83: 2 , 84 : 15 , 125 : 10 , 125 : 12 , 169: 2 , 175 : 10 , 239: 16 **2013 '** **s** [ 1 ] - 125 : 22 **2014** [ 1 ] - 218 : 15 **2015** [ 1 ] - 217 : 7 **2016** [2] - 48 : 22 , 123 : 7 **2017** [ 1 ] - 112 : 3 **202** [ 1 ] - 6 : 9 **2020 s**  [1 ] - 220 : 17 **2022** [ 1 ] - 25 : 6 **203** [ 1 ] - 196 : 12 **2053** [3] - 34 : 14 , 220 : 21 , 220 : 23 **207** [ 1 ] - 6 : 11 **209** [ 1 ] - 8 : 14 **21** [2] - 172 : 9 , 250 : 20 **21 ,**  **000** [ 1 ] - 118 : 22 **212** [ 1 ] - 6 : 12 **215** [ 1 ] - 6 : 13 **22** [5] - 85 : 17 , 85: 20 , 86 : 6 , 86 : 10 , 133 : 16 **222 -** **9594** [ 1 ] - 2 : 11 **224** [ 1 ] - 6 : 15 **227** [ 1 ] - 6 : 17 **23** [7] - 19 :22 , 111 : 13 , 112 : 15 , 112 : 17 , 112 : 19 , 113 : 8, 168 : 17 **230** [6] - 7 :4 , 7 : 5 , 7 :6 , 7 : 8 , 8 : 7 , 133 : 17 **24** [4] - 118: 20, 123 : 11 , 170 : 7 , 225: 19 **24 -** **hour** [2] - 178: 1 , 178 : 3 **241 -** **0733** [ 1 ] - 2 : 21**25** [3] - 161 : 22 ,

173 : 15 , 174 :4 **26** [1 ] - 148: 2 **264** [ 1 ] - 91 : 15 **27** [1 ] - 239: 16 **27 th**  [2] - 231 : 3 , 234 : 21 

## 3

**3** [34] - 7 :6 , 61 : 22 , 66 : 8 , 68: 20 , 70 : 23, 71 : 24, 72 : 3 , 72 : 13, 72 : 21 , 74 : 20, 90 : 8, 90 : 17, 91 : 14, 98 : 17 , 110 : 19 , 119: 14 , 130 : 25 , 135: 20 , 136 :4, 137 : 7, 161 : 19 , 170 : 3, 181 : 16 , 196 : 10 , 200 :4 , 200 : 12 , 201 : 17 , 202 : 18 , 203: 23 , 209 : 1 , 214 : 18 , 216 : 24 , 220 : 1 , 230 : 22 **30** [6] - 112 : 8 , 149 : 2 , 181 : 1 , 181 : 2 , 188 :22 , 190 : 6 **30 -** **day** [3] - 79 : 5 , 80 : 18, 112 : 2 **300** [ 1 ] - 189 : 12 **309** [ 1 ] - 15: 3 **309 (** **g** [ 1 ] - 239 : 12 **318** [ 1 ] - 133 : 25 **31 st**  [3] - 48: 22 , 112 : 3, 123 : 7 **32** [1 ] - 195: 20 **34** [1 ] - 233: 5 **34 .**  **5** [ 1 ] - 182 :4 **340** [5] - 90 : 16, 91 : 8 , 91 : 14, 91 : 17, 92 : 3 **34127** [1 ] - 3 :4 **345** [ 1 ] - 135 : 8 **350** [ 1 ] - 32 : 1 **36** [2] - 4 : 6, 57 : 8 **365** [4] - 116 : 1 , 116 :4, 116 : 7, 118 : 10 **38** [2] - 170 : 11 , 174 : 13 **3 :**  **00** [1 ] - 162 : 17 **3 :**  **11** [1 ] - 162 : 18 

## 4

**4** [33] - 7 : 7 , 68 : 22 , 71 : 3 , 72 :4 , 73 : 5 , 73 : 7, 79: 3 , 83: 1 , 83 : 3 , 91 : 1 , 123 : 13 , 123: 14 , 123 : 17 , 123: 18 , 136 :4, 181 : 17 , 182 : 3 , 200 : 2 , 203 : 15 , 204 :4 , 218 : 10 , 218: 19 , 219 : 13 , 220 :4 , 220 : 15 , 222 : 16 , 222 : 21 , 227: 22 , 227 : 24 , 230 : 8 , 230 : 10 , 230 : 20 , 230 : 22 **4 .** **7** [ 1 ] - 177 : 23 **40** [7] - 7 : 5, 7: 6 , 7 : 7, 102 : 17 , 113: 16 , 116 : 18 , 159:4 **400** [2] - 99: 13, 133 : 15 **414** [ 1 ] - 2 :20 **418** [2] - 203 : 6, 216 : 23 **418 -** **megawatt** [2] - 154 : 10 , 202 : 19 **44** [1 ] - 211 : 18 **45** [1 ] - 225: 21 **453** [ 1 ] - 91 : 13 **46** [1 ] - 133: 18 **4601** [ 1 ] - 1 : 17 **47** [4] - 170 : 14, 177 : 22 , 183: 25 , 211 : 10 **48** [1 ] - 211 : 20 **49** [1 ] - 170 : 19 **4 :** **35** [1 ] - 224 : 3 **4 :** **47** [1 ] - 224 :4 

## 5

**5** [ 12] - 7 : 9 , 68 : 11 , 82 : 25, 84 : 9 , 85: 7 , 85: 14, 86 : 9 , 86 : 16, 86 : 24, 119 : 15 , 178:4 , 184 :4 **5 ,**  **000** [2] - 119: 16, 119 : 18 **5 ,** **300** [1 ] - 180 : 25 **5 .** **4** [ 1 ] - 118 : 3 **5 .** **8** [ 1 ] - 125 : 7 **50** [16] - 74 : 8, 74 : 11 , 74 : 12 , 74 : 14, 74 : 21 , 74 : 23, 74 : 24, 75 : 1 , 99: 6 , 150 : 16, 153 : 18 , 211 : 17 , 211 : 18 , 211 : 19 , 225: 10 **50 -** **acre** [ 1 ] - 91 : 25 **500** [ 1 ] - 2 : 15 **500 ,** **000** [ 1 ] - 209 :25 **500 -** **person** [1 ] - 133 : 17 **505** [4] - 2 : 11 , 2 : 17 , 2 :21 , 3 : 5 **51** [1 ] - 7 : 7 **51 .** **308** [ 1 ] - 7 : 5 **51 .** **309** [ 1 ] - 7 :6 **53** [2] - 53 : 9 , 211 : 24 **54** [1 ] - 158: 1 **54 ,**  **000** [ 1 ] - 92 : 7 **5 th**  [2] - 1 : 14, 20 : 18 

## 6

**6** [7] - 7: 13, 68 : 14, 83: 3 , 86 : 24 , 138 : 1 , 200 : 25 , 204 : 14 **6 /** **27** [ 1 ] - 236 : 11 **60** [4] - 4 : 7, 81 : 5 , 113 : 6, 113 : 7 **600** [ 1 ] - 140 : 6 **67** [3] - 4 : 9, 75 : 2 , 211 : 16 **6 th**  [ 1 ] - 248: 23 

## 7

**7** [8] - 7: 15, 10 : 1 , 76 : 14, 86 : 24, 128 : 16 , 128 : 19 , 201 : 9 , 209: 3 **7 ,** **385 ,** **466** [ 1 ] - 196 : 12 **7103** [ 1 ] - 1 : 17 **74 -** **2 -** **5 .**  **E** [ 1 ] - 241 :23 **740** [ 1 ] - 135 : 7 **75** [1 ] - 225: 22 **77** [1 ] - 4 : 11 **78** [1 ] - 146 : 23 **7 :** **30** [1 ] - 47: 17 

## 8

**8** [ 10] - 7 : 17 , 75 :24 , 84 : 18, 85 : 8 , 86 : 24, 170 : 7, 170 : 19 , 213 : 24 , 213: 25 , 238 : 20 **8 ,**  **000** [2] - 119: 13, 130 : 25 **800** [3] - 91 : 23, 99: 13, 151 : 2 **81** [1 ] - 4 : 13 **824** [ 1 ] - 210 : 12 **842 -** **4737** [ 1 ] - 2 : 17 **86** [12] - 7: 12 , 7 : 14 , 7 : 16 , 7 : 18 , 7 : 20 , 7: 21 , 7 :22 , 7 : 24 , 7 : 25 , 8:4 , 8 : 5 , 8 : 8 **861** [3] - 233 : 5, 233 : 6 **87102** [1 ] - 2 : 16 **87103** [1 ] - 2 : 21 **87505** [1 ] - 2 : 11 **87594 -** **4127** [ 1 ] - 3 :4 **88** [2] - 4 : 15 , 133: 15 

## 9

**9** [ 10] - 7 : 19 , 75 :24 , 86 : 24, 138 : 1 , 170 : 3 , 170 : 9, 170 : 11 , 204 : 14 , 209: 3 , 214 : 12 **90** [4] - 112 : 7 , 112 : 8 , 118 : 6, 126 : 13 **90 ,**  **000** [ 1 ] - 74 : 5 **910** [ 1 ] - 210 : 12 **92** [1 ] - 4 : 17 **95** [2] - 4 : 19 , 96 : 2 **953** [ 1 ] - 94 : 8 **988 -** **4804** [ 1 ] - 3: 5 **98 th**  [5] - 84 : 7 , 84 : 19, 114 : 25 , 115 : 16 , 116: 2 **9 :** **20** [1 ] - 1 : 19 

## A

**a .**  **m** [4] - 1 : 19 , 65 : 18 , 65: 19, 109 : 20 **abandon** [2] - 61 :22 , 220 :4 **abandoned** [ 1 ] - 220 : 2 **abandonment** [ 1 ] - 62 : 13 **abate** [ 1 ] - 231 : 14 **abbreviated** [1 ] - 19: 9 **abide** [3] - 56 : 3, 186 : 17 , 186: 19 **ability** [1 ] - 216 : 20 **able** [24] - 24 :24 , 28: 14, 31 : 22 , 36 : 17 , 39: 23, 49 : 15, 55 : 20 , 57: 20, 101 : 13 , 108 : 21 , 114 : 12 , 114 : 18 , 144 : 5 , 155 : 17 , 157: 1 , 191 : 2 , 191 : 19 , 199: 9 , 200 : 16 , 200 : 17 , 206 : 3, 215 : 6, 240 :20 **above -** **entitled** [ 1 ] - 1 : 15 **absent** [3] - 23 : 3, 31 : 17, 46 : 24 **absolutely** [5] - 55 :4 , 64 : 11 , 124 : 16 , 131 : 15 , 230 : 25 **absorb** [1 ] - 99: 14 **abstract** [ 1 ] - 235 : 16 **abundant** [ 1 ] - 98 : 16 **accelerated** [ 1 ] - 218 : 11 **accept** [6] - 40 : 19 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 2

50 : 22 , 146 : 18 , 146 : 25 , 246: 13 , 249 : 6 **acceptable** [7] - 25: 6 , 30 : 22 , 51 : 24, 51 : 25, 83 : 17, 84 : 3, 162 : 8 **accepted** [5] - 175 : 1 , 196 : 25 , 209: 16 , 230 : 21 , 240 : 14 **accepting** [ 1 ] - 240 : 24 **access** [ 1 ] - 140 : 15 **accordance** [4] - 11 : 3 , 15: 3 , 70 : 12 , 76 : 10 **according** [2] - 148 : 1 , 177 : 11 **accordingly** [ 1 ] - 48: 21 **account** [5] - 190 : 3 , 190 : 5, 190 : 6, 190 : 11 , 190 : 23 **accounting** [ 1 ] - 208 : 2 **achievable** [1 ] - 68: 25 **achieve** [6] - 20 : 9 , 33: 12 , 48 :4 , 124 : 14 , 179 : 5, 180 : 19 **achieved** [4] - 33 :4 , 33: 5 , 52 : 15 , 79: 10 **achievements** [ 1 ] - 35: 14 **achieves** [ 1 ] - 164 : 5 **acid** [3] - 74 : 24, 199 : 12 , 199: 16 **acknowledge** [ 1 ] - 35: 14 **acknowledged** [ 1 ] - 133 : 1 **acknowledging** [2] - 35: 3 , 62 : 12 **acknowledgment** [ 1 ]

- 235 : 8 **acquire** [2] - 106 : 15 , 235 : 19 **acres** [7] - 91 : 15, 91 : 16, 91 : 21 , 91 : 22 , 91 : 23, 92 : 2 , 92 : 7 **act** [5] - 10 : 18 , 216: 2 , 216 : 3, 231 : 15 , 232 : 10 **Act** [ 19] - 7 :4, 22 : 10, 27: 12 , 58 : 14, 58 : 19 , 59: 3 , 102 : 25, 126 :20 , 132 : 13 , 215: 25 , 222 : 12 , 230 : 11 , 231 : 12 , 231 : 13 , 241 : 13 , 241 : 22 , 243 : 20 , 245: 14 , 245 : 23**acting** [2] - 52 : 19 ,

67: 13 **action** [23] - 15 : 8 , 20 : 20, 23 : 5 , 23: 7 , 32 : 15, 38 : 13, 41 : 5, 41 : 17, 41 : 19, 41 : 20 , 41 : 21 , 41 : 22 , 45 : 5, 58: 2 , 122 : 13, 135 : 3 , 141 : 17 , 188: 20 , 193 : 3, 228 : 2 , 237 :25 , 250 : 14 , 250 : 17 **actions** [3] - 186 : 18, 186 : 20 , 188: 24 **activated** [4] - 72 : 24 , 72 : 25, 74 : 5 , 233 : 14 **active** [2] - 97 : 11 , 107 : 24 **actively** [ 1 ] - 47 : 15 **activity** [1 ] - 246 :4 **acts** [ 1 ] - 199 : 13 **actual** [7] - 80 : 16 , 85: 20, 113 : 3, 118 :23 , 124 : 7, 189 : 22 , 247: 23 **add** [15] - 30 : 5, 54 : 12 , 76 : 17, 140 :24 , 154 : 7, 155 : 10 , 158: 3 , 190 : 16 , 197: 23 , 198 : 1 , 216 : 25 , 236 : 1 , 247 : 16 , 247: 21 **addendum** [5] - 175 : 10 , 175: 14 , 175 : 18 , 176 : 16 , 179 : 16 **Ad dendum**  [ 1 ] - 7: 13 **adding** [3] - 248 :23 , 249 : 1 , 249 : 2 **addition** [8] - 90 : 25 , 96 : 24, 106 : 11 , 133 : 20 , 136 : 24 , 211 : 23 , 215: 5 , 222 : 17 **additional** [ 13] - 12 : 22 , 63 : 15, 76 : 16 , 111 : 17 , 120 : 1 , 146 : 22 , 179:4 , 184 : 12 , 199: 17 , 221 : 17 , 229: 9 , 237 : 11 , 243: 14 **additionally** [3] - 61 : 20, 168 : 19 , 169: 9 **additions** [1 ] - 59: 24 **additive** [1 ] - 129: 8 **address** [ 12] - 16 : 2 , 102 : 24 , 104 : 21 , 114 : 8, 131 : 18 , 198 : 24 , 209: 6 , 219 : 11 , 219: 21 , 222 : 23 , 236 : 25 **addressed** [4] - 15: 15, 83 : 12 , 103 : 1 , 127 : 10 **addresses** [ 1 ] - 114 : 5 **addressing** [5] - 106 : 6, 133 : 5, 138 : 5 , 234 : 23 , 235: 6 **adds** [ 1 ] - 199 : 12 **adequate** [2] - 247 : 18 , 248: 24 **adjourn** [1 ] - 229: 16 **adjustment** [1 ] - 161 : 21 **administration** [6] - 21 : 8 , 21 : 13 , 21 : 18, 31 : 11 , 36 : 1 , 208 : 1 **administration '** **s** [1 ]

- 32 : 10 **administrator** [4] - 10 : 25, 11 : 25, 12 : 17 , 47: 25 **Ad ministrator**  [1 ] - 48: 1 **admission** [5] - 86 : 15, 174 : 23 , 196 : 23 , 230 : 7 , 230 : 20 **admit** [ 1 ] - 191 : 15 **ADMITTED** [3] - 7: 2 , 8 :2 , 9 : 2 **admitted** [6] - 86 : 23 , 86 : 25, 175 : 2 , 197 : 1 , 209 : 18 , 230 : 22 **adopt** [23] - 27 : 6, 27: 10, 37 : 20, 42 :4, 42 : 15, 53 : 23, 53 : 24 , 69: 14, 78 : 18, 83 : 5, 164 : 16 , 166 : 11 , 170 : 24 , 172 : 20 , 172 : 23 , 174 : 19 , 196 : 19 , 209: 11 , 231 : 1 , 231 : 10 , 234 : 20 , 236 : 13 , 248 : 20 **adopted** [9] - 20 : 1 , 28: 9 , 35: 2 , 37 : 19 , 42 : 8 , 53: 21 , 141 : 1 , 165 : 10 , 199: 19 **adopting** [3] - 27 : 12 , 46 : 12 , 52 : 20 **adoption** [9] - 21 : 17 , 100 : 2 , 109 : 6, 142 :23 , 145 : 19 , 165: 2 , 226 : 24 , 228: 7 , 237: 20 **Ad option**  [2] - 8 : 7, 247 : 9 **adopts** [3] - 42 : 9 , 218 : 3, 241 : 11 **advantage** [3] - 34 : 15, 148 : 14 , 215: 7 **advantages** [2] - 25: 24, 240 : 7 **adverse** [3] - 34 : 19 , 96 : 9 , 129 :4 **adversely** [4] - 80 : 6 , 80 : 7 , 122 : 12 , 129 : 10 **advice** [1 ] - 238: 7 **advisor** [ 1 ] - 238 : 7 **Ad vo** **cates** [ 1 ] - 146 : 14 **advocating** [ 1 ] - 137 : 22 **affairs** [3] - 207: 20, 208 : 9, 208 : 12 **affect** [2] - 69: 23 , 75: 12 **affected** [4] - 108 : 11 , 135 : 12 , 142 : 17 , 143 : 19 **affecting** [3] - 11 : 16 , 126 : 13 , 127: 20 **affects** [3] - 40 : 11 , 101 : 9, 244 : 12 **Affidavits** [ 1 ] - 7 : 15 **affirm** [ 1 ] - 27 : 9 **affirmation** [ 1 ] - 245 : 13 **affirmed** [33] - 17 : 14 , 18: 2 , 67: 5 , 77 :2 , 81 : 14, 88 : 9 , 88: 13, 92 : 22 , 95 : 18, 100 : 7 , 104 : 2 , 104 :4, 106 :22 , 110 : 3, 131 : 20 , 139 : 19 , 139: 21 , 143 : 6, 146 : 2 , 149 :21 , 150 : 2 , 151 : 22 , 155: 2 , 157 : 10 , 158: 18 , 167 : 9, 167 : 13 , 194 : 19 , 195: 2 , 207: 2 , 224 : 12 , 227: 5 , 250 : 9 **afford** [2] - 150 : 21 , 188 : 2 **affordability** [ 1 ] - 152 : 15 **Affordable** [2] - 91 :6 , 146 : 14 **affordable** [ 1 ] - 89 : 1 **afforded** [1 ] - 22 : 9 **aforementioned** [ 1 ] - 148 : 6 **afternoon** [16] - 88 : 5, 132 :4, 140 : 1 , 143 : 13 , 146 : 5, 150 : 7, 151 :25 , 152 : 24 , 155: 12 , 157 : 18 , 202 : 11 , 202 : 12 , 215: 17 , 215 : 18 , 224 : 19 , 227 : 10 **Ag ency**  [4] - 7: 10, 78: 6 , 89: 19 , 105 :4 **agenda** [3] - 148: 13, 238 : 18 , 238: 19 **aging** [ 1 ] - 25 : 19 **ago** [8] - 15 :4 , 32 : 16 , 102 : 17 , 114 : 2 , 156 : 18 , 160 : 19 , 219 : 22 , 228: 22 **agree** [25] - 23 : 19 , 25: 7 , 25: 12 , 39: 7 , 50 :4 , 53: 18 , 54 : 23, 55: 11 , 58 : 5 , 61 : 9 , 61 : 20, 62 : 15, 62 : 16 , 62 : 21 , 105 : 18 , 172 : 20 , 191 : 19 , 193 : 24 , 214 : 3 , 216 : 7 , 221 : 19 , 237: 3 , 248: 16 **agreeable** [ 1 ] - 52 : 1 **agreed** [ 13] - 32 : 1 , 32 : 5 , 32 : 7 , 50 :22 , 52 : 16, 55 : 15, 78 : 8, 108 : 8, 122 : 17 , 151 : 9 , 151 : 13 , 151 : 14 , 199 : 6 **agreed -** **upon** [ 1 ] - 78: 8 **agreeing** [ 1 ] - 121 : 9 **agreement** [65] - 16 : 2 , 26 : 2 , 26 : 5 , 26 : 12 , 31 : 15, 31 : 17 , 31 : 19, 31 : 25, 32 : 3, 32 : 17, 35 : 9 , 40 : 3 , 43: 7 , 43: 15 , 44 : 8 , 46 : 8 , 46 : 24 , 46 : 25, 47: 2 , 48: 3 , 52 : 15 , 52 : 23, 53 : 6 , 53: 8 , 55: 6 , 55: 7 , 55 : 17 , 55: 21 , 56 :4 , 56 : 9 , 56 : 11 , 56 : 12 , 56 : 15 , 56 : 23, 57 : 13, 61 : 3, 61 : 5 , 68: 8 , 90 :2 , 90 : 3, 90 : 7 , 97: 22 , 105 : 7, 108 : 8, 108 : 10 , 108 : 25 , 121 : 15 , 142 : 9, 142 : 15 , 145: 5 , 175 : 11 , 177:4 , 186 : 10 , 186: 20 , 187 : 23 , 200 : 6 , 204 : 2 , 222 : 10 , 226: 3 , 232 : 16 , 232 : 17 , 232 : 20 , 245: 9 , 246 : 1 **agreements** [2] - 61 : 1 , 200 : 20 **agrees** [2] - 203 : 20 , 222 : 22 **agriculture** [ 1 ] - 226 : 10 **ahead** [ 10] - 88: 1 , 88: 3 , 105 : 22 , 106 :4 , 111 : 3, 176 : 17 , 212 : 17 , 212 : 18 , 213 : 7 **air** [22] - 25 :22 , 48: 10, 83 : 16, 103 : 3 , 160 : 24 , 168: 7 , 168 : 25 , 171 : 10 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 3

171 : 16 , 171 : 18 , 172 : 10 , 173: 16 , 175 : 9, 181 : 12 , 197 : 15 , 208: 15 , 231 : 14 , 231 : 20 , 242 : 3, 242 : 5, 242 : 8 **Ai r**  [26] - 7:4 , 13 : 13 , 22 : 10, 27 : 12 , 58 : 14 , 58: 19, 59 : 3 , 67: 14, 77: 10, 77 : 11 , 80 : 23 , 102 : 24 , 126: 20 , 126 : 23 , 127: 2 , 132 : 13 , 180 : 12 , 222 : 12 , 230 : 11 , 231 : 12 , 231 : 13 , 241 : 13 , 241 : 22 , 243 : 20 , 245: 14 , 245 : 23 **alarmist** [ 1 ] - 88 : 22 **Al buquerque**  [4] - 2 : 16 , 2 : 21 , 24 : 14 , 100 : 14 **alleged** [ 1 ] - 104 : 22 **alleviate** [ 1 ] - 31 : 9 **Al liance**  [2] - 104 : 14, 104 : 20 **allow** [ 15] - 23: 22 , 25: 23, 34 : 14, 55 : 10 , 55: 23, 61 : 21 , 131 : 17 , 139 : 6, 145 : 17 , 189: 8 , 189 : 10 , 190 : 20 , 190 : 21 , 200 : 21 **allowed** [2] - 192 : 12 , 214 : 19 **allowing** [4] - 23 : 20, 61 : 21 , 103 : 16 , 104 : 11 **allows** [5] - 34 : 10, 94 : 1 , 189 : 18, 189 : 19 , 212 : 3 **almost** [3] - 74 : 1 , 96 : 16, 189 : 13 **alternative** [46] - 16 : 25, 19 : 15, 23 : 14 , 23: 23, 24 : 10, 24 : 24 , 25: 21 , 26 : 11 , 33 : 5, 34 : 1 , 34 : 19 , 73: 19, 73: 20, 85 : 1 , 85: 3 , 85: 9 , 85: 12 , 85: 17, 85: 24, 86 :4 , 86 : 9 , 101 : 23 , 105: 13 , 125 : 21 , 132 : 8 , 132 : 11 , 132 : 24 , 134 : 18 , 135: 24 , 137 : 13 , 137: 17 , 138 : 3, 154 : 18 , 185 : 14 , 205: 7 , 220 : 11 , 228: 20 , 232 : 12 , 233:4 , 233: 9 , 233 : 21 , 234 : 9 , 234 : 11 , 234 : 17 ,242 : 22 , 243: 23 **alternatives** [6] - 77: 25, 96 : 8 , 135 : 14 , 198 :4, 198 : 18 , 221 : 5 **Al varado**  [1 ] - 209 : 7 **Al vi** **drez** [ 18] - 6 : 5, 6 : 8 , 6 : 11 , 13 : 23 , 128 : 2 , 131 : 13 , 139: 2 , 148 : 25 , 162 : 22 , 162 : 25 , 185: 5 , 185 : 10 , 193: 8 , 206 : 20 , 219: 15 , 223 : 7, 234 : 25 , 236 : 23 **AL VIDREZ**  [67] - 2 : 14 , 13: 21 , 60 : 3 , 86 : 21 , 128 :4, 128 :6 , 131 : 15 , 139: 3 , 149: 2 , 149 : 8, 162 : 23 , 167 : 10 , 167: 16 , 167 : 17 , 167: 21 , 168 : 1 , 168 : 9, 168 : 12 , 169 : 13 , 169: 18 , 169 : 21 , 170 : 22 , 171 : 2 , 171 : 8, 171 : 13 , 171 : 20 , 171 : 24 , 172 : 3, 172 : 14 , 172 : 17 , 172 : 22 , 173 : 1 , 173 : 7, 173 : 12 , 173 : 18 , 173: 21 , 174 : 6, 174 : 10 , 174 : 14 , 174 : 18 , 174 : 22 , 175: 3 , 179: 9 , 180 : 1 , 182 : 20 , 184 : 20 , 185: 8 , 185 : 15 , 185: 23 , 185 : 25 , 187: 13 , 190 : 15 , 193: 13 , 193 : 25 , 194 : 13 , 194 : 20 , 195: 5 , 196 : 22 , 197: 2 , 206 : 21 , 207: 5 , 209 : 14 , 209: 19 , 212 : 9, 221 : 7, 223 : 8 , 236 : 24 **ameliorate** [1 ] - 203 :4 **American** [3] - 133 : 16 , 133: 19 , 225 : 20 **ammonia** [5] - 79: 15 , 79: 19, 79 : 21 , 83 : 13 , 83: 22 **amount** [ 19] - 13 : 1 , 57: 17, 70 : 25, 74 : 3, 74 : 9 , 74 : 11 , 74 : 12 , 79: 19, 106 : 11 , 136 : 25 , 161 : 15 , 176 : 3, 181 : 6, 190 : 18 , 211 : 3, 217 : 19 , 244 : 12 , 245: 16 **amounts** [ 1 ] - 61 : 3 **ample** [3] - 237 :24 , 242 : 9, 249 : 3 **analyses** [5] - 168 : 17 , 168: 21 , 168 : 22 , 169: 1 , 175: 7 **An alysis**  [ 1 ] - 7 : 13 **analysis** [38] - 69 : 17, 69: 24, 70 : 14, 70 : 17 , 71 : 15, 71 : 23, 72 :4, 72 : 11 , 72 : 18, 73 : 3, 73: 17, 76 : 8 , 82 : 11 , 83: 15, 83 : 25, 120 : 9 , 125 : 5, 125 : 8, 125 : 10 , 125 : 13 , 125: 22 , 125 : 23 , 165: 12 , 168 : 23 , 168: 24 , 171 : 17 , 175: 22 , 179 : 13 , 183: 1 , 183: 3 , 184 : 6, 189 : 10 , 191 : 24 , 203: 24 , 206 : 8, 218 : 18 , 237: 23 **announce** [ 1 ] - 186 : 8 **announced** [ 1 ] - 35: 8 **announcements** [ 1 ]

- 141 :21 **annual** [5] - 84 : 20 , 181 : 25 , 182 :4 , 183: 6 , 183 : 10 **annualized** [4] - 120 : 8, 181 : 23 , 182 : 8 , 184 : 1 **annualizing** [ 1 ] - 183 : 9 **answer** [ 17] - 49: 5 , 54 : 20, 108 : 16 , 126 : 25 , 127: 24 , 130 : 8, 130 : 19 , 185 : 21 , 192 : 6 , 200 : 10 , 200 : 23 , 205 :4, 217 : 24 , 218: 2 , 219 : 18 , 221 : 8 , 244 : 15 **answers** [1 ] - 123: 19 **anti** [2] - 88 :23 , 89: 17 **anti -** **fossil** [2] - 88: 23, 89 : 17 **anticipate** [2] - 41 : 14, 218 : 20 **anticipated** [4] - 105 : 25 , 128: 23 , 221 : 14 , 241 : 20 **anyw ay**  [ 1 ] - 243: 2 **anyw ays**  [ 1 ] - 158 : 8 **apart** [ 1 ] - 55 : 7 **apologize** [ 1 ] - 163 : 12 **appealed** [ 1 ] - 141 : 17 **Ap peals**  [ 1 ] - 186 : 5 **appear** [7] - 57: 19, 96 : 9 , 98: 5 , 104 : 24, 163 : 13 , 243: 10 , 245 : 9 **appearance** [4] - 12 : 13, 12 : 15, 13 : 6, 13: 17 **appeared** [ 1 ] - 169 : 10 **Ap pendix**  [ 12] - 7 : 7 , 8 : 8 , 16 : 17 , 69 : 18 , 69: 20, 75 : 6 , 84 : 18, 115 :4, 236 : 11 , 236 : 12 , 239: 14 , 239 : 20 **applaud** [5] - 39 :2 , 40 : 1 , 40 : 19 , 244 : 21 **applauding** [2] - 35:4 , 35: 16 **apple** [2] - 222 : 5 , 242 : 18 **applicable** [4] - 76 : 10, 81 : 6 , 167 : 2 , 187 :4 **application** [6] - 68:4 , 112 : 9 , 112 : 10 , 121 : 19 , 169: 2 , 217: 17 **applications** [1 ] - 168 : 7 **applied** [1 ] - 73 : 7 **apply** [6] - 11 : 10 , 112 : 2 , 134 : 10 , 204 : 24 , 232 : 11 , 248 : 13 **apply ing**  [2] - 119 : 7, 119 : 16 **appointed** [1 ] - 18 :23 **appreciate** [17] - 40 : 21 , 60 : 21 , 63 : 6, 100 : 3, 105 : 1 , 120 : 13 , 138 : 8, 144 : 10 , 157: 3 , 157 : 19 , 158: 25 , 163 : 10 , 228: 14 , 229 : 14 , 236 :4 , 237 : 14 , 237: 15 **appreciates** [ 1 ] - 109 : 14 **appreciation** [ 1 ] - 236 : 2 **apprentice** [1 ] - 226 : 1 **approach** [ 1 ] - 78 : 8 **appropriate** [ 11 ] - 19: 15, 63 : 23, 64 : 1 , 64 : 17, 80 : 14, 131 : 9 , 181 : 21 , 185: 5 , 217: 7 , 241 : 23 , 245: 25 **appropriateness** [ 1 ]

- 222 : 3 **approvable** [2] - 53: 19, 54 : 1 **approval** [ 15] - 41 : 12 , 44 : 21 , 45 : 2 , 48: 23, 106 : 15 , 122 : 22 , 165: 21 , 204 : 19 , 221 : 6 , 221 : 15 , 222 : 11 , 222 : 21 , 232 : 5 , 232 : 9 , 235 : 22 **approvals** [6] - 165 : 17 , 166:4 , 187: 7 , 187 : 11 , 235: 19 , 237 : 11 **approve** [24] - 15 : 11 , 20 : 25, 23 : 19, 28 : 8, 41 : 3 , 41 : 22 , 42 :4 , 42 : 12 , 42 : 14, 42 : 16 , 52 : 2 , 61 : 10 , 92 : 11 , 92 : 12 , 106 : 14 , 121 : 25 , 148: 22 , 154 : 5, 164 : 22 , 185 : 12 , 187: 21 , 212 : 7, 237 : 25 , 246 : 22 **approved** [ 17] - 14 : 23, 15 : 5 , 15: 13, 15: 19, 16 : 16, 61 : 10 , 83: 19, 89 : 10, 89 : 16 , 105 : 16 , 125: 7 , 140 : 25 , 150 : 25 , 164 : 14 , 186: 21 , 186 : 22 , 187: 7 **approves** [6] - 41 : 5, 65: 11 , 81 :4 , 81 : 7 , 121 : 6, 221 : 2 **approving** [ 1 ] - 121 : 25 **Ap ril**  [ 11 ] - 7 : 14 , 18: 23, 68 : 5 , 68: 13, 72 : 2 , 72 : 5 , 72 : 12 , 72 : 17, 72 : 18, 73 : 10 , 175 : 10 **APS** [ 1 ] - 95 : 2 **arbitrary** [2] - 50 : 12 , 64 : 13 **area** [35] - 34 : 9 , 53: 12 , 82 : 13, 84 : 8, 84 : 11 , 84 : 22 , 85 : 7, 85: 19, 85 : 25, 86 : 2 , 91 : 18, 91 : 20, 95 : 3, 108 : 16 , 115: 20 , 116 : 18 , 117: 2 , 132 : 22 , 135: 18 , 137 :4, 137 : 5, 138 : 5 , 138 : 14 , 141 : 8 , 143 : 18 , 145: 16 , 150 : 13 , 151 : 10 , 151 : 16 , 161 : 12 , 167 : 25 , 171 : 11 , 177 : 7, 181 : 12 , 191 : 8 **area '** **s** [ 1 ] - 150 : 17 **areas** [ 13] - 40 : 10 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 4

40 : 14, 84 : 14, 86 : 8, 137 : 23 , 177: 19 , 177 : 21 , 178: 7 , 215:4 , 225 : 15 , 233: 24 , 233 : 25 , 244 : 13 **arena** [1 ] - 44 : 17 **arguing** [ 1 ] - 59: 5 **argument** [4] - 45: 18, 45 : 25, 229 : 19 , 230 : 3 **arise** [2] - 187 : 14 , 187 : 15 **Ari zona**  [ 1 ] - 160 : 10 **Armageddon** [ 1 ] - 88: 23 **arms** [ 1 ] - 224 : 23 **arrangement** [ 1 ] - 200 : 15 **Arreguin** [ 1 ] - 11 : 21 **ARREGUIN** [ 1 ] - 250 : 6 **arrived** [2] - 20 : 22 , 89: 25 **art** [ 1 ] - 180 : 22 **articulate** [ 1 ] - 232 : 8 **articulated** [1 ] - 235 : 1 **ascertain** [1 ] - 79 : 8 **ash** [6] - 73: 1 , 74 : 13 , 159 : 19 , 181 : 6 , 219: 6 **aside** [ 1 ] - 39 : 23 **aspect** [2] - 178: 17 , 214 : 25 **aspects** [4] - 24 : 15 , 133 : 10 , 175: 9 , 231 : 23 **assess** [ 1 ] - 35: 22 **assessment** [5] - 71 : 3 , 71 :4 , 71 : 11 , 72 : 17, 73 : 9 **assigned** [ 1 ] - 68 : 2 **assistant** [2] - 13: 10, 169 : 3 **Assistant** [ 1 ] - 2 : 8 **associated** [7] - 33: 24, 37 : 22 , 46 : 20 , 97: 7 , 151 : 10, 198 :22 , 217 : 10 **association** [1 ] - 38: 5 **Association** [4] - 96 : 1 , 98: 2 , 98 :22 , 100 : 1 **assume** [1 ] - 208 : 9 **assuming** [3] - 42 : 11 , 65 : 11 , 200 :6 **assumptions** [3] - 120 : 15 , 120 : 17 , 197 : 19 **assurance** [ 1 ] - 216 : 19**assurances** [3] -

45: 18, 45 : 23, 47 : 3 **assure** [ 1 ] - 51 : 12 **assures** [ 1 ] - 45 : 24 **asterisk** [ 1 ] - 48 : 21 **atmospheric** [ 1 ] - 168 : 16 **attached** [7] - 8 : 14 , 8 : 19 , 8 : 24 , 9 : 8, 119 : 23 , 120 :4 , 169: 15 **attack** [3] - 94 : 25 , 218 : 10 , 219: 12 **attempt** [2] - 23: 5 , 105 : 21 **attendance** [ 1 ] - 11 : 14 **attended** [ 1 ] - 67 : 20 **attention** [4] - 131 : 7 , 183 : 25 , 223: 11 , 237 : 13 **attitude** [2] - 204 : 6, 229 : 2 **attorney** [8] - 45: 8 , 45: 11 , 62 : 1 , 62 : 3 , 63: 24, 215 : 23 , 250 : 12 , 250 : 15 **Attorney** [7] - 23 :4, 38: 22 , 39 : 6 , 39: 10, 39: 16, 40 : 15 **Attorneys** [1 ] - 2 : 15 **attorneys** [2] - 13 : 17 , 13: 20 **attractive** [ 1 ] - 150 : 18 **attrition** [2] - 98 : 14 , 214 : 15 **audience** [6] - 63 : 3 , 130 : 13 , 194 : 11 , 206 : 18 , 223: 5 , 245: 12 **Au gust**  [ 1 ] - 20 :2 **Au thority**  [ 1 ] - 200 : 5 **authority** [5] - 23 : 6 , 44 : 5 , 58: 17 , 216 : 9, 218 : 24 **authorization** [ 1 ] - 96 : 23 **authorize** [1 ] - 216 : 9 **available** [7] - 70 : 19 , 71 : 20, 120 : 10 , 164 : 13 , 212 : 10 , 242 : 7 **AVAI LA** **BLE** [1 ] - 1 : 5 **Available** [ 10] - 10 :4, 10 : 22 , 14 : 25, 19 : 19 , 165 : 13 , 168: 22 , 232 : 13 , 232 : 19 , 239 : 13 , 245: 10 **avenue** [ 1 ] - 219: 12 **Avenue** [2] - 2 : 15 , 2 :20 **average** [ 11 ] - 79: 6 , 80 : 18, 84 : 20, 88 : 24 , 89: 23, 91 : 19, 112 :2 , 118 : 3, 118 : 8, 134 :2 , 148 : 11 **avoid** [2] - 11 : 17, 25: 18 **aw are**  [ 12] - 19 : 8 , 19: 16, 22 : 6 , 37: 5 , 37: 21 , 38 : 2 , 64 : 8 , 98: 18, 139 :4, 152 : 19 , 219 : 8, 219 : 20 **aw areness**  [2] - 32 : 10, 219 : 9 

## B

**B -** **E -** **G -** **A -** **Y -** **E** [ 1 ] - 143 : 12 **B -** **E -** **N -** **A -** **L -** **L -** **Y** [ 1 ] - 93: 3 **Baca** [ 1 ] - 238 : 8 **bachelor** [3] - 67 : 18 , 77: 15, 77 : 16 **bachelor '** **s** [3] - 172 : 6, 173 : 24 , 195: 21 **back -** **and -** **forth** [ 1 ] - 51 : 23 **background** [14] - 16 : 7 , 19: 7 , 19 : 9 , 53 :4, 67: 17, 77 : 14, 82 : 1 , 83: 22 , 84 : 19, 168 : 13 , 172 :4, 173 : 22 , 195 : 19 , 207: 25 **backwards** [ 1 ] - 95: 10 **BACT** [2] - 168 :21 , 203 : 23 **bad** [4] - 21 :6 , 55 : 15 , 64 : 10, 85 : 13 **bag** [1 ] - 219: 24 **balance** [ 11 ] - 97 : 15 , 107 : 10 , 132 : 16 , 150 : 22 , 164 : 5 , 164 : 18 , 191 : 2 , 191 : 7 , 191 : 10 , 191 : 13 , 246 :4 **balanced** [ 1 ] - 136 : 12 **balances** [ 1 ] - 34 : 7 **balancing** [2] - 136 : 10 , 245: 15 **ball** [ 1 ] - 240 : 23 **ballpark** [ 1 ] - 148: 15 **bar** [ 1 ] - 110 : 16 **bargain** [2] - 90 : 6 , 122 : 5 **BART** [79] - 7 : 7 , 7 : 13 , 10 : 5 , 14 :25 , 15: 7 , 15: 9 , 15 : 11 , 15: 14, 15 : 17, 15 : 21 , 16 : 3 , 16 : 10 , 16 : 12 , 16 : 18, 19 : 19, 20 :4, 22 : 12 , 37 : 1 , 68: 1 , 68: 3 , 68: 13 , 69: 17, 70 : 10, 70 : 13, 70 : 16 , 70 : 17, 70 : 20, 71 : 15 , 72 : 19, 73 : 22 , 75 : 10 , 77: 23, 77 : 25, 81 : 1 , 82 : 9 , 82 : 11 , 83: 15, 83: 25, 117 : 22 , 118 : 20 , 127:4 , 135:4 , 137 : 11 , 145: 3 , 163 : 15 , 165: 12 , 168 : 20 , 168: 21 , 168 : 24 , 169: 5 , 171 : 17 , 175: 7 , 175 : 23 , 176 : 10 , 178 : 12 , 179: 13 , 179 : 23 , 180 : 8 , 180 : 9 , 180 : 10 , 181 : 22 , 183 : 3, 185 : 13 , 213: 3 , 218 :4, 232 : 13 , 234 : 5 , 234 : 11 , 234 : 12 , 234 : 13 , 234 : 17 , 234 : 18 , 237: 23 , 239 : 13 , 239: 14 , 240 : 10 , 240 : 11 , 241 : 13 **BART -** **related** [ 1 ] - 168 : 20 **Base** [ 1 ] - 201 : 10 **base** [2] - 140 : 13 , 140 : 15 **based** [22] - 42 : 22 , 71 : 25, 72 : 5 , 72 : 6 , 72 : 11 , 72 : 18, 73 : 9, 73: 17, 84 : 12 , 84 : 19 , 86 : 6 , 86 : 10 , 118 : 25 , 120 : 9, 122 : 2 , 163 :22 , 175 : 11 , 176 : 11 , 182 : 9, 189 : 7, 191 : 8 , 218 : 25 **baseline** [7] - 85 : 14 , 118 : 21 , 176 : 25 , 192 :4, 192 : 5, 202 : 17 **basic** [ 1 ] - 121 : 15 **Basin** [ 1 ] - 99 : 7 **basis** [8] - 79 : 6, 84 : 16, 112 : 2 , 176 : 15 , 178 : 22 , 206 : 11 , 211 : 11 , 237: 8 **Bates** [ 1 ] - 15:4 **battle** [ 1 ] - 22 : 6 **BE** [ 1 ] - 1 : 14 **beauty** [ 1 ] - 58 : 19 **became** [4] - 20 : 13 , 24 : 23, 29 : 6 , 37: 7 **bec ome**  [9] - 28 : 13 , 42 : 5 , 47: 8 , 112 : 13, 112 : 16 , 112 : 18 , 112 : 22 , 112 : 25 , 215 : 23 **becomes** [3] - 11 : 23, 181 : 8, 181 : 15 **began** [ 1 ] - 23 : 11 **Begaye** [2] - 143 : 11 , 143 : 15 **BEGAYE** [4] - 5 : 12 , 139 : 18 , 143: 5 , 143: 11 **begin** [3] - 106 : 16 , 128 : 23 , 231 : 11 **beginning** [ 1 ] - 94 : 13 **begun** [ 1 ] - 102 : 7 **Behalf** [4] - 8: 11 , 8 : 16 , 8 : 22 , 9 : 6 **behalf** [ 12] - 45 : 11 , 104 : 19 , 109:4 , 142 : 21 , 142 : 22 , 144 : 19 , 145: 18 , 152 :4, 155 : 8, 162 :25 , 168 : 9, 226 : 23 **behind** [4] - 159 : 13 , 191 : 10 , 191 : 13 , 198 : 3 **beleaguered** [ 1 ] - 89: 20 **beliefs** [1 ] - 144 : 6 **below** [4] - 34 :4, 101 : 14 , 113: 3 , 201 :4 **Ben** [2] - 131 : 25, 132 : 5 **BEN** [3] - 5 : 8 , 131 : 19 , 131 : 25 **Benally** [2] - 93: 3 **BENALLY** [5] - 4 : 16, 66 : 17, 88 : 7 , 92 : 21 , 93: 2 **beneficial** [2] - 106 : 2 , 133 : 11 **beneficiary** [ 1 ] - 92 : 6 **benefit** [5] - 86 : 3 , 94 : 23, 150 : 18 , 192 : 20 , 215: 5 **benefits** [ 14] - 32 : 21 , 33: 10, 48 :4 , 94 : 3 , 94 : 20, 95 : 7 , 150 : 15 , 164 : 13 , 179:4 , 188 : 24 , 210 : 23 , 211 : 13 , 233: 19 , 242 : 12 **bent** [1 ] - 95 : 10 **BERNALILLO** [ 1 ] - 250 : 3 **BEST** [ 1 ] - 1 : 5 **Best** [10] - 10 :4, 10 : 22 , 14 : 24, 19 : 18 , 165 : 13 , 168: 22 , 232 : 13 , 232 : 18 , 239 : 13 , 245: 10 **best** [37] - 23 : 16 , 24 : 20, 25 : 16, 26 : 15 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 5

26 : 18, 27 : 24, 34 : 11 , 35: 5 , 35: 20 , 35: 23, 39: 8 , 39: 24 , 40 : 3 , 47: 5 , 53: 18 , 54 : 1 , 54 : 6 , 98: 11 , 99: 16, 105 : 13 , 108: 5 , 120 : 9 , 142 : 7, 144 : 21 , 145: 2 , 152 : 21 , 153: 25 , 154 : 18 , 156: 19 , 156 : 21 , 158: 5 , 198 : 11 , 205: 1 , 217 : 18 , 232 : 12 **better** [ 17] - 49: 18 , 54 : 12 , 85 : 10, 103 : 3 , 106 : 3, 116 : 11 , 126 : 25 , 130 : 7 , 162 : 5 , 177 : 19 , 178: 23 , 198 : 14 , 234 : 5 , 234 : 11 , 234 : 12 , 234 : 17 , 240 : 10 **between** [26] - 30 : 22 , 35: 19, 47 : 18, 68 : 8, 78:4 , 86 : 8 , 90 :2 , 96 : 8, 99: 12 , 100 : 14 , 102 : 11 , 113: 5 , 124 : 25 , 125: 2 , 143 : 17 , 179: 1 , 181 : 12 , 189: 12 , 190 : 11 , 191 : 16 , 198 : 14 , 206: 7 , 210 : 12 , 237: 5 , 240 : 3 , 246 : 14 **Between** [1 ] - 7 : 9 **beyond** [10] - 33 : 10, 43: 12 , 56 : 16, 73 : 5, 120 : 2 , 144 : 7, 144 : 8 , 148 : 18 , 177: 17 , 240 : 7 **BHP** [ 1 ] - 160 : 23 **bid** [3] - 190 : 25, 191 : 1 , 191 : 2 **bidders** [3] - 182 : 11 , 190 : 24 , 191 : 1 **bidding** [ 1 ] - 148 : 9 **bids** [7] - 29: 14, 29: 15, 182 : 11 , 184 : 15 , 189: 22 , 191 : 6 **big** [3] - 125: 20, 161 : 2 , 188 : 20 **bigger** [1 ] - 181 : 2 **biggest** [2] - 138 : 11 , 159 : 21 **bilateral** [2] - 26 : 2 , 56 : 9 **bill** [3] - 152 : 14 , 161 : 20 , 161 : 21 **Bill** [ 1 ] - 13: 10 **BILL** [1 ] - 2 : 8 **bill .** **grantham @**  **state .**  **nm .**  **us** [ 1 ] - 2 : 12 **billion** [4] - 89 :20 ,134 : 20 , 148: 3 , 189: 13 **bills** [ 1 ] - 151 : 3 **bind** [2] - 187 : 20, 217 : 12 **binding** [6] - 43 : 24 , 44 : 15, 204 : 10 , 216 : 19 , 216 : 21 , 237 : 7 **bio** [1 ] - 207: 21 **biomass** [ 1 ] - 147 : 1 **bipartisan** [2] - 39 : 1 , 39: 22 **BISBEY** [ 18] - 4 : 8 , 5 :4 , 17 : 13 , 67 :4 , 110 : 2 , 117 : 16 , 118 : 25 , 119: 5 , 119: 8 , 119 : 13 , 119: 18 , 120 : 6, 120 : 21 , 124 : 11 , 124 : 14 , 124 : 19 , 130 : 22 , 131 : 3 **Bisbey** [8] - 7 : 24 , 7 :25 , 13: 14 , 33: 11 , 67: 3 , 67: 11 , 130 : 19 , 232 : 7 **BISBEY -** **KUEHN** [ 18]

- 4 : 8 , 5 :4, 17: 13, 67 :4 , 110 : 2 , 117 : 16 , 118 : 25 , 119: 5 , 119: 8 , 119 : 13 , 119: 18 , 120 : 6, 120 : 21 , 124 : 11 , 124 : 14 , 124 : 19 , 130 : 22 , 131 : 3 **Bisbey -** **Kuehn** [8] - 7 :24 , 7 : 25 , 13 : 14 , 33: 11 , 67 : 3 , 67: 11 , 130 : 19 , 232 : 7 **bit** [ 12] - 22 : 19, 26 : 23, 38 : 14, 49 : 16 , 107 : 20 , 113: 12 , 119 : 21 , 126 :4 , 126 : 6 , 157 : 21 , 186 : 6 , 224 : 21 **Black** [ 17] - 8 :20 , 14 : 5 , 167 : 23, 168 : 3 , 169 : 7, 171 : 11 , 172 : 9 , 175 : 17 , 175: 21 , 176 : 13 , 179: 15 , 182 : 24 , 184 : 9 , 190 : 18 , 197: 24 , 198 : 8, 211 : 10 **BLM** [1 ] - 75 :24 **block** [2] - 202 : 19 , 204 : 6 **Bloomberg** [ 1 ] - 153 : 17 **BO ARD**  [5] - 1 : 1 , 36 : 22 , 110 : 12 , 185: 2 , 212 : 13 **board** [2] - 44 : 6, 229 : 10 **Board** [ 162] - 1 : 17, 2 :2 , 4 : 6 , 5 :6 , 6 : 6 , 6 : 12 , 10 : 18 , 11 : 24, 12 : 6 , 12 : 19 , 13: 9 , 13: 22 , 14 : 10, 14 : 18 , 14 : 21 , 14 : 23, 15 : 19 , 18: 6 , 19: 1 , 19 : 5 , 19: 10, 19 : 16, 20 : 16 , 21 : 8 , 22 : 3 , 26 :20 , 36 : 20, 40 : 25, 41 : 3, 41 : 5 , 41 : 11 , 41 : 13, 41 : 22 , 42 : 12 , 42 : 14 , 43: 17, 44 : 3 , 51 : 12 , 52 : 19, 53 : 22 , 53 : 23 , 54 : 12 , 54 : 17, 54 : 24 , 55: 2 , 60 : 18 , 61 : 12 , 62 : 11 , 63 : 8 , 63: 14, 65: 6 , 65: 9 , 65 : 11 , 66 : 25, 70 : 7 , 75: 6 , 81 : 3 , 87: 3 , 87 : 10 , 88: 21 , 93 :4 , 105 : 1 , 109 : 5, 109 : 14 , 110 : 9 , 110 : 10 , 110 : 25 , 111 : 20 , 118: 16 , 121 : 6, 121 : 21 , 121 : 25 , 126 : 1 , 130 : 24 , 131 : 7 , 131 : 9 , 131 : 18 , 132 : 3 , 134 : 8 , 137 : 21 , 139: 6 , 143 : 13 , 146 : 6 , 151 : 25 , 153: 14 , 154 : 5, 154 : 12 , 154 : 20 , 162 : 24 , 163 : 3, 163 : 7, 163 : 17 , 163 : 21 , 164 : 19 , 165 : 8, 165 : 10 , 166 : 8 , 169 : 10 , 172 : 15 , 179 : 10 , 180 : 2 , 183 : 17 , 184 : 9 , 184 : 23 , 185: 12 , 185 : 17 , 186 : 21 , 187 : 10 , 187: 24 , 188 : 14 , 191 : 25 , 195 : 13 , 197: 3 , 198: 5 , 198 : 20 , 199: 23 , 202 :4, 207 : 14 , 210 : 9 , 212 : 6, 212 : 11 , 217 : 24 , 221 : 1 , 221 : 18 , 221 : 21 , 222 : 3, 222 : 16 , 223 : 11 , 223: 19 , 228 : 15 , 229: 23 , 231 : 1 , 231 : 7, 231 : 9 , 231 : 14 , 231 : 16 , 231 : 21 , 234 : 20 , 235 : 11 , 235: 23 , 236 : 2 , 236 : 25 , 237: 2 , 237 : 5, 237 : 18 , 237 : 25 , 238: 23 , 239 : 21 , 240 : 13 , 241 : 11 , 241 : 21 , 243 : 25 , 244 : 1 , 245 : 11 , 247: 7 , 247 : 12 , 247: 17 , 248 : 5, 248 : 24 , 249: 5 **Board '** **s** [3] - 11 :4 , 21 : 16, 230 : 14 **bodies** [ 1 ] - 166 : 5 **body** [6] - 102 :4, 142 : 22 , 145: 18 , 204 : 20 , 226 : 23 **boiler** [1 ] - 206 : 1 **bonus** [ 1 ] - 164 : 15 **born** [ 1 ] - 224 : 22 **bottom** [3] - 40 : 7 , 181 : 13 , 211 : 8 **Boulev ard**  [ 1 ] - 1 : 18 **bounce** [ 1 ] - 226 : 9 **boundaries** [1 ] - 225 : 2 **bounded** [ 1 ] - 181 : 16 **Box** [1 ] - 3 :4 **brand** [ 1 ] - 125: 22 **breach** [ 1 ] - 56 : 12 **bread** [1 ] - 138: 19 **break** [12] - 63 : 9, 63: 21 , 65 : 17, 66 : 11 , 87:4 , 87: 5 , 109: 10, 112 : 12 , 112 : 23 , 162 : 14 , 223: 14 , 223 : 24 **break -** **in** [2] - 112 : 12 , 112 : 23 **breakdown** [1 ] - 116 : 24 **breaker** [1 ] - 50 :21 **breaks** [ 1 ] - 200 : 3 **brief** [ 12] - 14 : 19 , 100 : 18 , 163: 1 , 167: 5 , 175 :4, 180 : 3, 182 :21 , 197 : 3, 197 : 5, 209 :20 , 209 : 22 , 245: 7 **briefly** [ 12] - 19 : 11 , 70 : 13, 73 : 17, 152 : 7 , 168 : 1 , 172 : 3, 173 : 12 , 195 : 18 , 207: 14 , 207 : 24 , 236 : 24 , 242 : 25 **bring** [4] - 164 : 16 , 180 : 14 , 220 : 10 , 236 : 3 **broad** [ 1 ] - 34 : 21 **broader** [ 1 ] - 28 : 21 **brother** [ 1 ] - 96 : 24 **brought** [5] - 89 : 11 , 141 : 23 , 155: 25 , 219 : 23 , 237: 18 **brutal** [ 1 ] - 190 : 19 **BS** [2] - 168 : 15 , 208 : 1 **BTU** [9] - 69 : 3 , 79 : 5, 80 : 18, 111 : 13 , 112 : 1 , 113 :4, 180 : 20 , 199: 5 , 199 : 7 **BTUs** [ 1 ] - 180 : 21 **budge** [ 1 ] - 50 :4 **budgets** [ 1 ] - 37 : 24 **build** [8] - 32 : 3 , 61 : 3 , 61 : 5 , 147 : 9 , 151 : 9, 156 : 1 , 216 : 9, 217 : 9 **built** [4] - 61 : 15 , 61 : 16, 147 : 19 , 181 : 11 **bulleted** [1 ] - 170 : 2 **bullets** [ 1 ] - 201 : 1 **bullies** [2] - 160 : 15 **bunch** [3] - 160 : 2 , 160 : 15 **burden** [1 ] - 217: 21 **Bureau** [10] - 7: 18, 13: 13, 67 : 14, 75 : 21 , 77: 11 , 77 : 12 , 80 : 24 , 96 : 15, 96 : 18, 96 : 20 **Bureau '** **s** [ 1 ] - 81 : 23 **bureaucracy** [ 1 ] - 153 : 12 **bureaucratic** [2] - 167 : 1 , 167 : 2 **buses** [2] - 138 : 15 **business** [2] - 159 :4, 208 : 1 **businesses** [3] - 153 : 24 , 208: 14 , 209 : 25 **butterflies** [ 1 ] - 91 : 12 **buy** [ 1 ] - 161 : 8 **BV** [ 1 ] - 183 : 13 **BV -** **3** [2] - 183 :2 , 183 : 13 **BY** [ 16] - 36 : 22 , 60 : 13, 67 : 8 , 70 : 9 , 77: 5 , 81 : 17 , 110 : 12 , 128 : 12 , 167: 16 , 185 : 2 , 195 : 5, 197 :2 , 202 : 10 , 207: 5 , 212 : 13 , 215: 16 

## C

**C '** **de** [1 ] - 238 : 8 **C -** **L -** **A -** **H -** **C -** **H -** **I -** **S -** **C****** **H -** **I -** **L -** **L -** **I -** **A -** **G -** **E** [ 1 ] - 227 : 16 **C -** **R -** **A -** **W -** **F -** **O -** **R -** **D** [ 1 ] - 88 : 19 **Cabo** [1 ] - 91 : 22 **calculate** [4] - 115 : 18 , 115: 20 , 115 : 22 , 115: 24 **calculated** [ 1 ] - 13 : 1 **calculation** [2] - 183 :4, 192 : 3 **calculations** [2] - 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 6

118 : 19 , 189: 7 **CALDWELL** [ 1 ] - 88: 5 **California** [3] - 30 : 10, 200 : 5, 208 :2 **Californian** [ 1 ] - 30 : 10 **CALPOST** [3] - 115 : 17 , 115: 20 , 115 : 22 **CALPUFF** [7] - 83: 19, 115 : 18 , 125: 6 , 125 : 8, 125 : 9, 125 : 11 **campaign** [2] - 25: 3 , 161 : 8 **Canada** [ 1 ] - 174 : 3 **cannot** [4] - 20 : 20, 34 : 6 , 43: 9 , 187: 20 **Canyon** [ 1 ] - 157: 24 **capacity** [5] - 90 : 19 , 140 : 7, 163 : 7, 165 :25 , 203 : 23 **capital** [12] - 120 : 7, 129 : 12 , 180 : 15 , 181 : 24 , 182 :4 , 182 : 7 , 183 : 6, 183 : 7, 183 : 8 , 183 : 9, 198 : 10 , 198: 12 **capricious** [ 1 ] - 64 : 14 **capturing** [ 1 ] - 124 : 9 **carbon** [8] - 33: 13 , 72 : 25, 74 : 5 , 211 : 17 , 211 : 19 , 218: 15 , 218 : 24 , 233: 14 **care** [4] - 26 : 3 , 144 : 6, 147 : 16 , 159: 21 **career** [3] - 108: 22 , 135 : 24 , 145: 15 **careers** [ 1 ] - 144 : 1 **carefully** [1 ] - 204 : 15 **caring** [ 1 ] - 146 : 10 **Carla** [2] - 104 : 9 , 104 : 13 **CARLA** [4] - 4 :22 , 104 : 1 , 104 : 3, 104 : 10 **carried** [1 ] - 69 :22 **carry** [ 1 ] - 163: 9 **cart** [2] - 222 :6 , 242 : 18 **CASCIANO** [13] - 2 :4 , 118: 9 , 118: 18, 119 : 2 , 119 : 6, 119 : 9 , 119 : 15 , 119: 19 , 120 : 11 , 120 : 22 , 188 : 16 , 191 : 18 , 245 : 7 **Casciano** [2] - 118 : 17 , 188: 15 **case** [39] - 15: 24, 22 : 15, 27 : 18, 30 : 9, 38: 14, 39 : 14, 42 : 25 ,43: 22 , 44 : 25, 46 : 10 ,

46 : 18, 57 : 22 , 58 : 12 , 70 : 16, 102 : 15 , 113: 5 , 118 : 5, 122 : 7, 127 : 14 , 127 : 22 , 129: 7 , 163 : 18 , 166 : 19 , 166 : 20 , 169: 15 , 172 : 24 , 175: 5 , 177 : 15 , 179: 19 , 195 : 25 , 196 : 11 , 206 : 3, 207 : 22 , 208 : 17 , 209: 21 , 221 : 12 , 237: 22 **case -** **by -** **case** [ 1 ] - 70 : 16 **cases** [1 ] - 38 : 8 **catalyst** [ 1 ] - 199 : 13 **catalytic** [6] - 20 : 6, 20 : 7 , 133 : 1 , 134 : 21 , 141 : 3, 172 : 11 **catch -** **21** [1 ] - 92 : 9 **catch -** **22** [1 ] - 92 : 9 **caused** [1 ] - 166 : 20 **causing** [2] - 134 : 24, 157 : 24 **caution** [3] - 164 : 18 , 164 : 19 , 235: 3 **cautious** [1 ] - 206 : 9 **caveat** [ 1 ] - 154 : 7 **CCN** [2] - 217 : 5 , 217 : 17 **CCR** [ 1 ] - 250 :20 **Center** [2] - 91 : 15 , 91 : 19 **center** [2] - 97 : 12 , 143 : 25 **certain** [7] - 25: 11 , 52 : 22 , 61 : 3 , 71 : 1 , 122 : 21 , 180 : 15 , 185 : 16 **certainly** [22] - 31 : 2 , 31 : 7 , 59: 2 , 97 : 8 , 97: 24, 98 : 21 , 103 : 18 , 139 : 6, 146 : 12 , 148 : 21 , 168: 15 , 169 : 23 , 179: 14 , 185 : 18 , 197: 23 , 201 : 25 , 221 : 23 , 226 : 15 , 237: 2 , 237 : 17 , 240 : 8 **certainty** [3] - 50 : 19 , 106 : 18 , 108:4 **Certificate** [ 1 ] - 217 : 5 **certification** [1 ] - 62 : 13 **certify** [ 1 ] - 250 : 7 **cetera** [2] - 56 : 6 , 59: 19 **CFR** [3] - 7: 5 , 7 : 6, 7 : 7 **CH** [ 1 ] - 157 : 15 **Chair** [34] - 13: 9 , 37:4 , 37: 14 , 37: 17, 38: 1 , 38: 9 , 38 :24 , 41 : 1 , 41 : 6 , 47 : 14 , 49: 12 , 51 :4 , 51 : 5 , 51 : 11 , 54 : 19, 56 : 2 , 56 : 7 , 57: 7 , 66 :25 , 88: 20, 111 : 19 , 121 : 10 , 130 : 23 , 131 : 7, 132 : 2 , 143 : 13 , 151 : 25 , 162 : 24 , 193 : 13 , 229: 23 , 238 : 16 , 247: 11 , 248 : 21 **chair** [2] - 18 : 5 , 130 : 23 **chairman** [ 1 ] - 140 : 8 **Chairman** [3] - 93 :4, 96 :4 , 146 : 6 **challenge** [2] - 39 : 9, 102 : 10 **challenged** [4] - 15: 23, 22 : 1 , 38: 10, 38: 12 **challenges** [1 ] - 166 : 16 **Change** [3] - 8: 14, 8 : 18 , 9 : 8 **change** [24] - 29: 2 , 55: 22 , 64 : 14, 71 : 22 , 71 : 25, 75 : 13, 84 : 7, 84 : 19, 89 : 14, 89 : 22 , 124 : 22 , 135: 13 , 177 : 10 , 177: 12 , 177 : 23 , 187: 8 , 220 : 24 , 221 : 11 , 221 : 20 , 239: 11 , 241 : 3, 246 : 16 , 248: 6 **changed** [8] - 72 :4 , 72 : 6 , 72 : 11 , 72 : 17, 73: 9 , 82 : 25 , 114 : 12 , 209 :4 **changes** [20] - 55 : 2 , 55:4 , 55: 10 , 69: 10, 69: 12 , 73 : 15, 78 : 15 , 82 : 21 , 82 : 23, 83 : 5, 105 : 23 , 106 : 18 , 124 : 7, 157 : 22 , 193 : 15 , 235: 1 , 235:4 , 235 : 12 , 247: 15 , 247 : 23 **changing** [2] - 164 : 25 , 193: 20 **Chapter** [21 ] - 8: 8 , 16 : 16, 69 : 17, 69 : 20 , 75: 6 , 107 :4 , 109 :4, 115 : 7, 115 : 8, 115 : 10 , 142 : 5, 142 : 21 , 142 : 23 , 143: 16 , 143 : 17 , 144 : 19 , 145 : 18 , 224 : 25 , 226 : 24 , 236 : 11 , 239 : 12 **chapter** [24] - 30 : 1 , 108 : 12 , 108: 18 , 139 : 5, 139 : 13 , 140 :4 , 140 : 5, 140 : 6, 140 : 12 , 142 : 3, 142 : 18 , 143 : 16 , 144 : 14 , 144 : 16 , 145: 2 , 145:4 , 223 : 20 , 224 : 25 , 225 : 2 , 225 : 15 , 226 : 14 , 226 : 15 , 226 : 21 , 231 : 25 **chapters** [2] - 140 : 9 , 226 : 14 **character** [2] - 231 : 16 , 241 : 25 **charged** [ 1 ] - 103 :4 **CHARLIE** [3] - 5: 22 , 149 : 20 , 157: 9 **Charlie** [ 1 ] - 157 : 15 **chart** [6] - 114 :20 , 114 : 21 , 114 : 23 , 117 : 5, 117 : 9, 118 :2 **charts** [1 ] - 110 : 17 **CHAVEZ** [4] - 4 : 20 , 88: 8 , 100 : 6 , 100 : 12 **Chavez** [1 ] - 100 : 12 **cheap** [2] - 30 : 7, 90 : 9 **cheaper** [ 1 ] - 34 : 16 **chemical** [2] - 173 : 24 , 174 : 2 **CHERYL** [ 1 ] - 250 : 6 **Cheryl** [ 1 ] - 11 : 20 **Chicago** [ 1 ] - 173: 10 **childhoods** [ 1 ] - 89 : 2 **chips** [ 1 ] - 205 : 1 **choice** [3] - 97 : 14 , 99: 12 , 240 : 3 **choices** [4] - 27: 9 , 29: 13, 105 : 14 , 141 : 6 **choose** [2] - 96 : 8 , 155 : 21 **choosing** [2] - 32 : 18 , 153 : 1 **chose** [ 1 ] - 23 : 7 **CHRIS** [3] - 6 : 7 , 195 : 1 , 195 : 8 **Chris** [5] - 8 : 15, 14 : 2 , 194 : 14 , 194 : 21 , 195 : 8 **cHRIS** [1 ] - 194 : 18 **chunk** [ 1 ] - 204 : 11 **Circuit** [20] - 15 : 25, 21 : 25, 23 : 11 , 26 : 22 , 26 : 24, 27 : 1 , 27: 5 , 27: 19, 27 : 25, 42 : 24 , 43: 2 , 43: 22 , 44 : 25, 45: 5 , 59: 12 , 64 : 7 , 153 : 5, 166 : 17 , 186 : 5 , 243 : 12 **circumstances** [3] - 129 : 23 , 241 : 24 , 249 : 5 **cited** [ 1 ] - 203 : 21 **citing** [ 1 ] - 204 : 3 **citizen** [2] - 58: 1 , 148 : 12 **citizens** [3] - 23 : 9, 96 : 6 , 153 : 11 **City** [4] - 93: 20, 97: 21 , 156 : 7, 156 : 9 **city** [ 1 ] - 156 : 9 **Civil** [ 1 ] - 11 : 9 **Clahchischilliage** [ 1 ]

- 227 : 11 **CLAHCHISCHILLIA GE**  [6] - 6 : 16, 227 :4 , 227 : 10 , 227: 14 , 227 : 15 , 227: 19 **clan** [ 1 ] - 224 : 21 **Clan** [ 1 ] - 224 : 22 **clarification** [4] - 60 : 20, 198 : 19 , 236 : 10 , 236: 19 **clarify** [8] - 17 : 15 , 36 : 25, 54 : 17, 64 : 18 , 121 :4, 193 : 19 , 197 : 21 , 200 : 24 **clarifying** [ 1 ] - 60 : 25 **clarity** [3] - 65 :4, 197 : 23 , 198: 1 **Class** [ 19] - 82 : 13, 84 : 8 , 84 : 11 , 84 : 14, 84 : 22 , 85 : 7 , 85: 19, 85: 25, 86 : 2 , 86 : 7 , 115 : 20 , 116: 17 , 117 : 2 , 177 : 7, 177 : 19 , 177 : 21 , 178: 7 , 233 : 24 , 233: 25 **class** [2] - 132 : 19, 132 : 21 **clauses** [ 1 ] - 122 : 20 **CLAYTON** [4] - 4 : 16 , 88: 7 , 92 : 21 , 93: 3 **Clayton** [ 1 ] - 93 :2 **clean** [4] - 98 : 16 , 158 : 5, 162 : 5, 244 : 16 **Clean** [ 17] - 7 :4, 22 : 10, 27 : 11 , 58 : 14 , 58: 19, 59 : 3 , 91 : 6 , 102 : 24 , 126: 20 , 132 : 13 , 146: 13 , 222 : 12 , 230 : 11 , 241 : 13 , 243: 20 , 245 : 14 , 245: 22 **cleaner** [2] - 34 : 16 , 103 : 2 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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- 3606 

# 7

**clear** [ 16] - 23 : 18 , 24 : 23, 28 : 8 , 44 : 14, 44 : 16, 50 : 1 , 58: 16, 166 : 18 , 166: 19 , 187 : 19 , 216: 18 , 217 : 3, 221 : 9, 221 : 12 , 230 : 25 , 237: 9 **clearly** [4] - 232 : 11 , 232 : 12 , 233: 8 , 240 : 9 **client** [3] - 45 : 1 , 45: 2 , 221 : 23 **clients** [2] - 152 : 14, 222 : 14 **climate** [1 ] - 29 :2 **clock** [ 1 ] - 87 : 2 **close** [7] - 18 : 8, 41 : 17, 182 : 7, 184 : 18 , 189 : 12 , 238: 12 **closed** [1 ] - 153: 7 **closely** [ 1 ] - 73 : 14 **closing** [13] - 90 : 8, 90 : 17, 105 : 7, 130 : 15 , 142 : 13 , 216: 24 , 223 : 25 , 229: 19 , 229 : 20 , 230 : 3 , 231 : 11 , 238: 5 **closure** [6] - 31 : 12 , 108 : 12 , 135: 19 , 141 : 21 , 142 : 17 , 151 : 14 **closures** [2] - 141 : 23 , 144 : 12 **clouds** [ 1 ] - 191 : 22 **Club** [5] - 25 : 3 , 146 : 15 , 159: 24 , 160 : 19 , 161 : 18 **CMO -** **1** [1 ] - 196 : 14 **co** [ 1 ] - 13 :23 **co -** **counsel** [ 1 ] - 13: 23 **CO 2**  [ 1 ] - 196 : 11 **Coal** [4] - 25:4 , 96 : 19, 225 : 18 , 225: 21 **coal** [53] - 25 : 19 , 28: 22 , 28 : 25, 29 : 3, 29: 11 , 29 : 20, 29 : 22 , 29: 24, 30 : 2 , 30 :4 , 30 : 6 , 30 : 12 , 34 : 13, 72 : 25, 73 : 1 , 74 : 6 , 80 : 1 , 80 :4 , 93 : 16 , 95: 1 , 95: 8 , 98 : 17 , 105 : 5, 111 : 7, 128 :23 , 129 : 16 , 129: 25 , 141 : 19 , 141 : 20 , 141 : 23 , 142 : 2 , 144 : 2 , 146 : 16 , 146: 20 , 168 : 6, 168 : 17 , 181 : 5 , 201 : 15 , 203: 23 , 205 : 14 , 205: 16 , 205 : 20 , 211 : 20 ,213 : 13 , 213: 14 ,

213 : 16 , 213: 22 , 219 : 5, 219 : 6, 225 : 17 , 226 : 10 , 233: 14 , 244 : 16 **coal -** **fired** [ 12] - 28: 22 , 28 : 25, 29 : 3, 29: 24, 30 : 2 , 30 :4 , 30 : 6 , 30 : 12 , 34 : 13, 105 : 5, 146 : 16 , 168: 17 **coal -** **powered** [ 1 ] - 141 : 19 **Coalition** [2] - 91 :6 , 146 : 13 **Code** [1 ] - 230 : 11 **codify** [ 1 ] - 112 : 3 **cognizant** [ 1 ] - 163 : 5 **coherent** [ 1 ] - 230 : 1 **collaborate** [ 1 ] - 102 : 7 **collaborating** [ 1 ] - 101 : 22 **collaboration** [ 1 ] - 102 : 11 **collaborations** [ 1 ] - 102 : 6 **collateral** [1 ] - 219 : 12 **colleague** [ 1 ] - 171 : 3 **colleagues** [1 ] - 97: 20 **college** [4] - 96 : 13, 107 : 21 , 136 : 1 , 136 : 2 **College** [9] - 1 : 17 , 1 : 18 , 94 : 2 , 94 : 5 , 94 : 6, 97: 9 , 97: 11 , 108 : 20 , 136 : 1 **colleges** [ 1 ] - 94 :4 **Colorado** [2] - 158 : 1 , 208 : 6 **Columbia** [1 ] - 153 : 19 **column** [5] - 85 : 22 , 118 : 7, 170 : 11 , 170 : 12 , 170 : 14 **combined** [ 1 ] - 196 : 12 **combining** [ 1 ] - 105 : 24 **combust** [ 1 ] - 211 :20 **combusted** [ 1 ] - 74 : 7 **combustion** [6] - 192 : 24 , 203: 21 , 204 : 2 , 204 : 12 , 204 : 18 , 211 : 20 **comfort** [2] - 50 : 5, 188 : 2 **comfortable** [3] - 38:4 , 241 : 5 , 248 : 9 **coming** [ 13] - 19: 1 , 41 : 10, 57 : 15, 57 : 17 , 103 : 3, 105 : 20 , 109 : 15 , 113: 25 , 178 : 9, 179 : 25 , 189:4 , 228 : 23 , 244 : 22 **commend** [1 ] - 145 : 11 **comment** [45] - 12 : 3 , 12 : 25, 13 : 3 , 14 : 13, 20 : 14, 42 : 3 , 44 : 13, 44 : 18, 54 : 3 , 56 : 16, 63: 11 , 65 : 22 , 65 : 25 , 66 : 10, 66 : 17, 75 : 20 , 87: 5 , 87: 13 , 87: 23, 100 : 3, 109 : 15 , 110 : 15 , 120 : 11 , 122 : 12 , 124 :4 , 131 : 10 , 131 : 14 , 131 : 17 , 132 : 8 , 138 : 25 , 149: 5 , 149 : 11 , 154 : 24 , 166 : 12 , 189: 15 , 193 : 12 , 224 : 6 , 224 : 10 , 241 :4 , 242 : 20 , 245: 6 , 245: 7 , 247 : 22 , 248: 8 , 249: 2 **commentary** [2] - 156 : 17 , 157:4 **commenters** [1 ] - 152 : 23 **comments** [27] - 7 : 17 , 7 : 19 , 12 : 18 , 12 : 22 , 44 : 9 , 44 : 10, 47: 13, 63 : 15, 65 : 6, 65: 13, 75 : 19, 76 :4, 76 : 7 , 83: 10 , 121 : 13 , 145 : 12 , 155: 11 , 163 : 23 , 184 : 19 , 188 : 18 , 203: 1 , 224 : 9 , 231 : 6, 239 : 23 , 244 : 1 , 246 : 7, 248 : 17 **Commission** [ 12] - 35: 2 , 41 : 16 , 61 : 17, 61 : 24, 97 : 21 , 154 : 9 , 165 : 22 , 216 : 8 , 216 : 21 , 217: 6 , 222 : 22 , 250 : 22 **commission** [5] - 61 : 23, 62 : 12 , 96 : 5, 204 : 24 , 205: 2 **commissioner** [ 1 ] - 165 : 23 **commit** [5] - 29 : 20 , 52 : 22 , 53 : 19, 191 : 10 , 206 : 10 **commitment** [ 15] - 47: 20, 50 : 2 , 56 : 25, 98: 13, 135 : 9, 135 : 16 , 135 : 18 , 137: 2 , 204 : 10 , 204 : 23 , 213 : 18 , 217:4 , 217: 8 , 217 : 15 , 220 : 10 **commitments** [5] - 56 : 13, 142 : 12 , 204 : 16 , 216 : 20 , 216 : 22 **committed** [9] - 34 : 12 , 46 : 11 , 47 : 7, 50 : 6 , 55: 12 , 55: 13, 56 : 22 , 217 :4, 220 :24 **communications** [ 1 ]

- 207 : 19 **communities** [5] - 94 : 23, 95 : 13, 143 : 3 , 225 : 5 **community** [ 18] - 93: 5 , 93: 8 , 93 :20 , 107 : 8, 107 : 10 , 107 : 13 , 140 : 13 , 140 : 17 , 141 : 5 , 143 : 19 , 143: 22 , 143 : 24 , 144 :4 , 145: 1 , 160 : 24 , 185: 18 , 189 : 1 **companies** [4] - 104 : 16 , 160 : 10 , 191 : 7, 208 : 5 **Company** [15] - 2 : 13, 2 : 19 , 7 : 11 , 8 : 12 , 8: 17, 8 :23 , 9 : 6, 12 : 9, 13: 24, 16 : 1 , 78: 5 , 96 : 19 , 159 : 2 , 162 : 21 , 163: 1 **company** [7] - 94 : 19, 160 : 9, 187 : 3, 187 : 8 , 188 : 12 , 210 : 2 , 227: 25 **company '** **s** [3] - 95: 10, 158 :4, 186 : 18 **comparable** [4] - 177 : 10 , 178: 8 , 178 : 10 , 178: 25 **compared** [7] - 73: 13, 126 : 10 , 127 : 17 , 176 :4 , 178:4 , 198 : 11 , 233: 5 **comparing** [4] - 74 : 16, 198 :4, 234 : 3 , 234 : 14 **comparison** [4] - 177 : 25 , 198: 14 , 234 : 5, 234 : 6 **compatible** [ 1 ] - 135 : 14 **competitive** [ 1 ] - 191 : 1 **competitors** [ 1 ] - 191 :4 **compiled** [ 1 ] - 83: 20 **complete** [6] - 14 : 23 , 25: 5 , 112 : 9 , 166 : 23 , 219 : 3, 237 : 19 **completed** [ 1 ] - 212 : 25 **completely** [4] - 46 : 13, 144 : 23 , 192 : 19 , 214 : 7 **completeness** [ 1 ] - 230 : 19 **compliance** [15] - 38: 3 , 71 : 5 , 72 :6 , 96 : 22 , 101 : 1 , 101 : 3 , 113 : 14 , 168: 6 , 168: 8 , 173 : 17 , 208: 15 , 210 : 11 , 210 : 24 , 241 : 15 , 241 : 16 **complicated** [ 1 ] - 156 : 3 **complies** [ 1 ] - 222 : 11 **compliment** [2] - 54 : 5 , 154 : 2 **comply** [2] - 28: 15 , 30 : 15 **complying** [2] - 105 : 17 , 106: 7 **component** [4] - 168 : 23 , 176: 9 , 178 : 13 , 201 : 25 **components** [ 1 ] - 180 : 17 **compound** [1 ] - 74 : 22 **compounds** [ 1 ] - 211 : 18 **comprehends** [ 1 ] - 245 : 9 **comprehensive** [1 ] - 212 : 2 **comprised** [2] - 133 : 23 , 140 : 9 **compromise** [ 12] - 89: 25, 90 : 1 , 90 :4 , 90 : 7 , 90 : 14 , 108 : 3, 142 : 8, 144 : 22 , 163 : 22 , 226: 17 , 226 : 19 **compromised** [2] - 225 : 21 , 225: 24 **conceivably** [ 1 ] - 218 : 9 **concentration** [ 1 ] - 83: 22 **concern** [ 14] - 64 :20 , 97: 16, 133 : 1 , 137 : 15 , 152 : 12 , 159: 16 , 160 : 14 , 203: 2 , 204 : 1 , 204 : 9, 205 : 24 , 219 : 20 , 220 : 3 , 228: 24 **concerned** [15] - 94 : 15, 94 : 16, 94 : 25 , 105 : 10 , 119: 22 , 135 : 1 , 135 : 2 , 135 : 3 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 8

141 : 12 , 150 : 15 , 150 : 23 , 203: 9 , 206: 9 , 227 : 24 , 228: 9 **concerning** [2] - 104 : 23 , 192 : 17 **concerns** [8] - 29 : 2 , 127 : 14 , 138: 5 , 151 : 6 , 189 :4, 222 : 23 , 234 : 25 , 244 : 25 **concise** [ 1 ] - 230 : 3 **concludes** [5] - 41 : 20, 179 : 8, 182 : 19 , 184 : 19 , 223: 10 **conclusion** [3] - 75: 9 , 116 : 14, 137 : 10 **condensable** [1 ] - 125 : 15 **condition** [4] - 84 :20 , 84 : 21 , 116 : 10 , 116: 12 **conditions** [8] - 65: 8 , 68: 7 , 68: 20 , 72 : 1 , 81 : 8 , 141 : 19, 141 :25 , 190 : 3 **conduct** [5] - 11 : 5, 68: 24, 70 : 23, 187 : 8 , 187 : 16 **conducted** [5] - 11 : 3 , 68: 3 , 70 : 16 , 71 : 15, 176 : 20 **confer** [ 1 ] - 219: 14 **conference** [1 ] - 47: 17 **confidence** [ 1 ] - 184 : 17 **confirmation** [2] - 48: 1 , 48: 13 **confirmed** [3] - 83: 18, 176 : 2 1 , 221 : 22 **conflict** [ 1 ] - 186 : 7 **conform** [1 ] - 247: 13 **confuse** [ 1 ] - 245: 17 **confused** [4] - 123: 2 , 124 : 3, 126 :4, 200 :24 **congested** [ 1 ] - 181 : 11 **congestion** [2] - 181 : 10 , 191 : 8 **congressional** [3] - 35: 6 , 39: 2 , 40 :2 **conjunction** [ 1 ] - 171 : 20 **connected** [ 1 ] - 101 : 21 **connection** [2] - 163 : 5, 237 : 16 **consent** [ 1 ] - 193: 3 **consequences** [ 11 ] - 23: 1 , 25: 10 , 26 : 3 , 26 : 13, 31 : 9 , 32 : 12 , 32 : 14, 34 : 20, 36 : 11 ,56 : 14, 206 : 8 **consequently** [ 1 ] - 198 : 6 **conserve** [ 1 ] - 25 : 23 **consider** [22] - 10 : 20, 15 : 16, 21 : 9, 22 : 2 , 22 : 17 , 22 : 24, 27: 2 , 28: 2 , 30 : 14 , 30 : 25, 58 : 11 , 65 : 7, 189 : 18 , 189: 20 , 204 : 15 , 231 : 16 , 235 : 14 , 235: 15 , 236 : 5, 237 : 2 , 239 :22 , 243 : 14 **considerable** [ 1 ] - 220 : 1 **considerably** [1 ] - 72 : 5 **consideration** [6] - 95: 12 , 142 : 5, 187 :23 , 222 : 25 , 236 : 5 , 241 : 14 **considerations** [3] - 28: 17, 31 :4 , 177 :4 **considered** [9] - 26 : 24, 33 : 22 , 73 : 2 , 73: 19, 125 : 21 , 192 : 9 , 198 : 18 , 205: 17 , 249 : 5 **considering** [ 16] - 25: 15, 27 : 8 , 27: 11 , 27: 12 , 28 :4 , 30 : 20, 31 : 6 , 44 : 9 , 44 : 13 , 44 : 18, 58 : 8 , 58: 13, 59:4 , 62 : 6 , 104 : 24, 178 : 17 **consist** [ 1 ] - 12 : 14 **consistency** [2] - 132 : 13 , 176 : 12 **consistent** [4] - 42 : 10, 52 : 11 , 82 : 11 , 83: 25 **consists** [2] - 79: 12 , 231 : 2 **constant** [ 1 ] - 51 : 23 **constantly** [2] - 148 : 7, 208 : 7 **constituents** [9] - 35: 21 , 140 : 11 , 143 : 23 , 225: 8 , 227 : 23 , 227: 24 , 228 : 10 , 229: 6 **constitutes** [ 1 ] - 73: 21 **construct** [4] - 108 : 8, 137 : 3, 182 : 11 , 204 : 17 **constructing** [ 1 ] - 142 : 14 **construction** [ 10] - 26 : 9 , 26 : 10 , 32 : 2 , 94 : 12 , 121 : 7, 122 :6 , 135 : 15 , 142 : 15 , 181 : 17 , 225: 14 **constructions** [ 1 ] - 108 : 10 **construe** [ 1 ] - 193 : 20 **consultation** [2] - 101 : 5, 103 : 9 **consulted** [ 1 ] - 38: 24 **consumer** [ 1 ] - 151 : 3 **Consumers** [8] - 3 : 2 , 12 : 11 , 12 : 16, 14 : 8, 14 : 11 , 24 : 1 , 152 :4, 152 : 8 **consumers** [1 ] - 147 : 10 **consumption** [ 1 ] - 33: 15 **contain** [ 1 ] - 121 : 16 **contained** [7] - 68: 7 , 71 : 18, 75 : 23, 175 : 12 , 179 : 3, 234 : 21 , 239: 18 **contains** [6] - 12 :6 , 16 : 8 , 16 : 9 , 68 :23 , 69: 1 , 70 : 3 **contaminants** [4] - 231 : 20 , 242 : 3 , 242 : 6 , 242 : 8 **contemplating** [ 1 ] - 210 : 11 **contend** [ 1 ] - 59 : 11 **context** [ 10] - 16 :4 , 16 : 23, 18 : 15, 19 : 15 , 20 : 16, 51 : 15, 126 : 19 , 166 : 16 , 237: 6 , 248: 12 **contexts** [ 1 ] - 28 :21 **contingencies** [2] - 41 : 8 , 43: 11 **continue** [9] - 30 : 5 , 42 : 25, 93 : 23, 102 : 12 , 102 : 20 , 188: 6 , 188 : 17 , 200 : 7 , 229: 5 **continued** [1 ] - 132 : 15 **Continued** [6] - 3 : 1 , 5 : 1 , 6 : 1 , 8 : 1 , 8: 3 , 9 : 3 **continues** [2] - 29: 25, 247 : 17 **continuity** [ 1 ] - 106 :4 **contract** [4] - 187 : 12 , 188 : 10 , 204 : 10 , 215 : 6 **contractor** [ 1 ] - 133 : 22 **contractors** [2] - 133 : 24 , 225: 23 **contracts** [2] - 187 : 14 , 187: 15 **contractual** [ 1 ] - 216 : 19 **contractually** [ 1 ] - 187 : 20 **contribute** [3] - 116 : 25 , 136 : 23 , 151 : 14 **contributes** [2] - 117 : 6, 117 : 11 **contributing** [4] - 108 : 13 , 116 : 16 , 116 : 22 , 142 : 18 **contribution** [2] - 161 : 8 **Contribution** [ 1 ] - 201 : 10 **Control** [ 10] - 168 : 22 , 174 : 16 , 174 : 17 , 180 : 11 , 181 : 23 , 189: 17 , 189 : 19 , 231 : 12 , 231 : 13 , 241 : 22 **control** [39] - 19 : 23, 43: 12 , 70 : 19, 70 : 22 , 70 : 23, 71 : 1 , 71 : 8 , 71 : 13, 71 : 20, 71 : 22 , 71 : 24, 72 : 14, 73 : 5, 73: 6 , 74 :4 , 79 :2 , 82 : 13, 84 :4 , 84 : 8 , 84 : 10, 84 : 14, 84 : 17 , 85: 15, 85 : 16, 85 : 21 , 119 : 11 , 119: 17 , 153 : 12 , 165: 20 , 171 : 11 , 171 : 16 , 171 : 18 , 172 : 10 , 172 : 12 , 197: 15 , 219 : 24 , 241 : 17 , 242 : 8, 245 : 18 **controls** [5] - 45: 2 , 164 : 24 , 192 : 24 , 232 : 16 , 232 : 18 **Convenience** [ 1 ] - 217 : 5 **convenience** [1 ] - 230 : 14 **conversation** [ 1 ] - 185 : 5 **conversations** [ 1 ] - 243 : 7 **conversion** [1 ] - 99 : 3 **converted** [ 1 ] - 177 : 7 **convinced** [ 1 ] - 147 : 13 **coordinated** [1 ] - 175 : 18 **coordinating** [1 ] - 179 : 17 **coordination** [1 ] - 179 : 24 **copy** [7] - 11 : 22 , 45: 15, 67 : 23, 77 : 19 , 82 : 5 , 203 : 13, 222 :20 **Corners** [22] - 24 : 13 , 25: 25, 26 : 8 , 32 : 8 , 34 : 9 , 34 : 25 , 96 : 10, 97: 3 , 98: 12 , 99: 6 , 101 : 9, 107 : 17 , 107 : 18 , 108: 16 , 135 : 18 , 137:4 , 142 : 1 , 146 : 17 , 151 : 10 , 197 : 14 , 205: 8 , 225: 15 **cornerstone** [ 1 ] - 98: 24 **corporate** [1 ] - 2 : 19 **Corporation** [3] - 8 :21 , 167 : 24, 171 : 12 **corporations** [ 1 ] - 152 : 10 **correct** [34] - 17: 10 , 37: 3 , 57: 9 , 61 : 18 , 66 : 3 , 76 : 24 , 77: 21 , 86 : 7 , 117 : 20, 119 : 8 , 121 : 9, 123 : 10 , 123 : 15 , 124 : 19 , 125 : 17 , 128: 14 , 128 : 15 , 131 : 1 , 168 : 10 , 184 : 18 , 185 : 15 , 191 : 17 , 193 : 25 , 201 : 6 , 201 : 11 , 201 : 12 , 201 : 13 , 201 : 18 , 213 : 3, 216 : 11 , 216 : 25 , 236: 15 , 245 : 15 , 248: 22 **correction** [6] - 130 : 19 , 170 : 19 , 174 : 12 , 174 : 18 , 196 : 10 , 196: 14 **Corrections** [ 1 ] - 8 : 8 **corrections** [20] - 69: 10, 69 : 12 , 69 : 18 , 75: 5 , 75: 8 , 78 : 15 , 82 : 21 , 169 : 18 , 172 : 17 , 172 : 20 , 172 : 23 , 174 : 10 , 194 : 2 , 196 : 3, 196 : 18 , 208 : 20 , 208: 22 , 208 : 23 , 209: 10 , 239 : 17 **correctly** [ 1 ] - 118 : 19 **corresponding** [1 ] - 85: 25 **corridor** [ 1 ] - 101 : 10 **corridors** [2] - 99 : 22 , 103 : 10 **cost** [103] - 20 : 8 , 22 : 24, 23 : 13, 28 : 17 , 29: 24, 30 : 5 , 33: 22 , 34 : 5 , 71 :4 , 72 :6 , 72 : 7, 89: 12 , 90 : 5 , 90 : 10, 90 : 23, 101 : 12 , 132 : 11 , 135: 5 , 135: 7 , 136 : 16 , 137: 24 , 141 : 14 , 147: 3 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 9

147 : 11 , 148: 5 , 150 : 21 , 151 : 2 , 161 : 21 , 170 : 5 , 175 : 12 , 175: 19 , 176 : 1 , 176 : 2 , 176 :4 , 176 : 6, 176 : 8, 178 : 13 , 178 : 15 , 178: 20 , 178 : 24 , 179: 2 , 179 : 17 , 179: 24 , 180 : 7, 180 : 9, 180 : 17 , 181 : 3, 181 : 9, 181 : 15 , 181 : 18 , 181 : 19 , 181 : 20 , 181 : 24 , 181 : 25 , 182 : 1 , 182 :4 , 182 : 7, 182 : 8, 182 : 13 , 182 : 16 , 182 : 24 , 182 : 25 , 183: 3 , 183: 9 , 183 : 10 , 183: 15 , 183 : 17 , 183: 21 , 184 : 3, 184 : 7, 187 : 1 , 188 : 16 , 188: 25 , 189 : 5, 189 : 7, 189 :24 , 190 : 5, 190 : 8, 190 : 9 , 191 : 19 , 191 : 21 , 192 : 3, 192 :4, 192 : 9 , 192 : 19 , 197: 19 , 198 : 9, 199 : 17 , 208: 8 , 210 : 20 , 211 : 8 , 211 : 12 , 212 : 5 , 218 : 19 , 219: 1 , 220 : 11 , 233: 2 , 233:4 , 233 : 5, 240 : 8 **Cost** [6] - 174 : 16, 174 : 17 , 180 : 12 , 181 : 23 , 189: 17 , 189 : 19 **cost -** **effective** [ 1 ] - 184 : 7 **costly** [9] - 19 :25 , 23: 8 , 25: 19 , 99: 11 , 101 : 3, 136 : 20 , 137 : 14 , 141 : 19 , 142 : 10 **costs** [32] - 30 : 7 , 33: 21 , 33 : 24, 46 : 20 , 47:4 , 90 : 24 , 92 :4 , 92 : 15, 102 : 24 , 105 : 11 , 106: 8 , 120 : 8 , 147 : 3, 178 : 23 , 179 : 18 , 180 : 15 , 182 : 12 , 183: 6 , 183: 7 , 184 : 1 , 188 : 19 , 189 : 21 , 190 : 12 , 191 : 8, 197 : 22 , 198 : 10 , 198: 12 , 198 : 17 , 198: 22 , 233 : 8, 241 : 15 **Council** [2] - 97 : 21 , 156 : 9 **Counsel** [4] - 2 : 8,2 : 9 , 2 : 19, 3: 3 **counsel** [10] - 13 : 11 , 13: 23, 14 : 10, 18 : 25 , 62 : 20, 63 : 24, 152 : 3 , 229 : 20 , 250 : 13 , 250 : 16 **count** [1 ] - 149 : 13 **country** [6] - 102 : 18 , 141 : 21 , 147: 17 , 147 : 19 , 161 : 9 , 206 : 5 **counts** [2] - 56 : 8 , 245 : 20 **County** [8] - 35 : 2 , 91 : 22 , 97 : 21 , 107 : 15 , 108 : 9, 142 : 14 , 150 : 10 , 228: 18 **CO UNTY**  [ 1 ] - 250 : 3 **county** [ 1 ] - 93 : 25 **couple** [20] - 12 : 21 , 19: 13, 56 : 1 , 59: 23, 63: 14, 66 : 12 , 82 : 23 , 84 : 25, 89 : 24, 121 : 1 , 128 : 9, 190 : 17 , 199 : 24 , 212 : 21 , 218 : 1 , 218 : 9, 220 : 5 , 230 : 5, 242 : 18 **course** [ 16] - 15 : 25 , 64 : 14, 90 : 20, 108 :2 , 145 : 5, 151 : 11 , 157: 6 , 164 : 11 , 165: 19 , 187 : 8, 187 : 16 , 188 : 19 , 203: 2 , 203: 5 , 219 : 20 , 221 : 9 **Court** [2] - 11 : 21 , 186 : 5 **court** [20] - 11 :23 , 27: 5 , 27: 8 , 27 : 10 , 27: 19, 27 : 25, 29 : 8, 41 : 5 , 42 : 20 , 58: 13, 60 : 11 , 64 : 6 , 64 : 8 , 64 : 9 , 141 : 17, 159 : 11 , 186 : 8, 186 : 12 , 186 : 16 **cover** [1 ] - 66 :21 **covered** [ 1 ] - 111 : 21 **covers** [2] - 15: 13, 40 : 13 **crafting** [1 ] - 108: 7 **CRAWFORD** [9] - 4 : 14 , 5 : 14 , 88 : 7 , 88: 12 , 88 : 18, 139 : 16 , 139 : 18 , 146 : 1 , 146 : 5 **Crawford** [3] - 88 : 18 , 139 : 15 , 146 : 7 **create** [5] - 101 : 23 , 108 : 24 , 111 : 14 , 147 : 23 , 202 : 19 **created** [6] - 28: 7 , 147 : 25 , 159: 2 , 159:4 , 167 :4, 245 : 1 **creates** [ 1 ] - 109 : 1 **creation** [2] - 32 : 1 , 136 : 6 **credibility** [ 1 ] - 11 : 16 **cringing** [ 1 ] - 187 : 25 **criteria** [1 ] - 189: 20 **critical** [9] - 31 : 10 , 32 : 9 , 32 : 12 , 32 : 18, 32 : 22 , 145 : 16 , 165: 5 , 166 : 8, 244 : 13 **criticizing** [ 1 ] - 190 : 18 **CROSS** [4] - 60 : 12 , 128 : 11 , 202 : 9 , 215: 15 **cross** [18] - 11 : 14 , 11 : 17, 14 : 12 , 17 : 17 , 17: 18, 59 : 16, 59 : 17 , 59: 22 , 59 : 24, 60 : 2 , 63:4 , 76 : 23 , 87: 6 , 110 : 7, 128 : 2 , 128 :6 , 184 : 22 , 194 : 5 **Cross** [4] - 4 : 7, 5 : 7 , 6 : 9 , 6 : 13 **cross -** **examination** [ 10] - 11 : 14, 11 : 17, 14 : 12 , 59 : 24, 76 : 23 , 110 : 7, 128 : 2 , 128 :6 , 184 : 22 , 194 : 5 **cross -** **examine** [1 ] - 59: 22 **cross -** **examined** [2]

- 17 : 17 , 17 : 18 **cross -** **examining** [ 1 ]

- 63 :4 **crowd** [2] - 147 :4 , 147 : 6 **CT** [ 1 ] - 217: 9 **culture** [2] - 140 : 14, 144 : 6 **cumulative** [ 1 ] - 117 : 18 **curb** [ 1 ] - 241 :2 **curious** [3] - 116 : 20 , 127 : 19 , 214 : 5 **current** [20] - 41 :25 , 42 : 6 , 42 : 7 , 61 :4 , 67: 23, 77 : 19, 85 : 16 , 118 : 21 , 118: 22 , 118 : 23 , 119: 1 , 171 : 9 , 171 : 15 , 173: 8 , 195: 9 , 197 : 15 , 199:4 , 199: 9 , 201 : 12 , 208: 11 **Curriculum** [ 1 ] - 7 :22 **customer** [ 1 ] - 150 : 23 **customers** [5] - 164 : 8, 197 : 10 , 197 : 11 , 205: 7 , 212 : 5 **cut** [3] - 54 : 8, 54 : 15 , 201 : 18 

## D

**D -** **A -** **R -** **N -** **E -** **L -** **L** [1 ] - 207 : 9 **D -** **U -** **N -** **S -** **W -** **O -** **R -** **T****** **H** [1 ] - 157 : 16 **d .**  **iv** [ 1 ] - 111 : 22 **Daa** [2] - 107 :4 , 109 :4 **Daily** [3] - 97 : 19 , 156 : 17 , 157: 5 **daily** [3] - 79 : 5 , 80 : 18, 112 : 1 **Dakota** [2] - 38 : 11 , 38: 12 **Dakotas** [ 1 ] - 208: 7 **damages** [ 1 ] - 129 : 8 **damn** [3] - 160 : 1 , 160 : 23 , 161 : 13 **dangers** [ 1 ] - 153 : 11 **DARNELL** [ 11 ] - 6 : 10 , 194 : 18, 207 : 1 , 213 : 2 , 213 : 11 , 214 : 7 , 214 : 10 , 214 : 19 , 214 : 22 , 219: 18 , 223 : 3 **Darnell** [ 16] - 8 : 11 , 14 : 1 , 194 : 15, 205 : 9 , 205 : 11 , 206 : 23 , 206 : 24 , 207: 6 , 207: 8 , 209 : 20 , 212 : 9 , 213: 8 , 215 : 17 , 223: 2 , 232 : 7 , 242 : 11 **darts** [2] - 155 :22 , 156 : 23 **data** [9] - 83: 20 , 83: 21 , 84 : 23, 84 : 24 , 98: 7 , 118 : 6 , 155 : 17 , 155 : 21 , 243: 16 **date** [5] - 20 : 23 , 20 : 25, 48 : 22 , 173 :20 , 186 : 18 **dates** [3] - 48 : 20, 50 : 12 , 248 : 23 **day -** **by -** **day** [1 ] - 48: 24 **day -** **for -** **day** [1 ] - 50 : 1 **days** [ 12] - 81 : 5 , 84 : 9 , 85: 6 , 85 : 13 , 93: 12 , 112 : 8, 116 : 3 , 116 : 7, 118 : 10 , 156 : 17 , 159: 19 **DC** [3] - 160 : 3 , 228 : 21 , 228: 22 **dead** [ 1 ] - 153 : 21 **deadline** [ 11 ] - 21 : 10 , 21 : 11 , 45 : 16, 45 : 22 , 46 : 1 , 57: 5 , 57 : 8 , 57: 19, 58 : 7 , 58: 17, 187 : 3 **deadlines** [5] - 50 : 7, 57: 20, 58 : 1 , 166 : 14 , 166 : 15 **deal** [9] - 19 :4 , 44 : 17, 44 : 18, 50 : 21 , 57 : 23 , 154 : 10 , 204 : 3 , 231 : 21 , 240 : 8 **deal -** **breaker** [1 ] - 50 : 21 **dealing** [3] - 29 : 9 , 44 : 1 , 156 : 11 **deals** [ 1 ] - 54 : 25 **dealt** [2] - 156 :4, 188 : 22 **DEBORAH** [ 1 ] - 2 : 3 **decades** [ 1 ] - 96 : 16 **December** [2] - 20 : 24, 57 : 5 **decent** [ 1 ] - 93 : 19 **decide** [1 ] - 29 : 19 **decided** [7] - 23:4 , 25: 16, 27 : 19, 39 : 10 , 62 : 17, 159 : 25 **decides** [ 1 ] - 54 : 12 **decision** [27] - 18 : 13 , 18: 17, 21 : 16, 22 : 1 , 23: 8 , 27: 23 , 29: 6 , 29: 11 , 32 : 18, 32 : 22 , 39: 21 , 44 : 5 , 45: 7 , 48: 11 , 55 : 18, 61 : 9, 61 : 21 , 62 : 7 , 62 : 11 , 89: 25, 97 : 25, 136 : 13 , 191 : 22 , 198: 5 , 217 : 13 , 225:4 , 243: 18 **decision -** **maker** [1 ] - 62 : 7 **decision -** **makers** [ 1 ]

- 48 : 11 **decision -** **making** [4]

- 32 : 18 , 39 : 21 , 44 : 5, 45: 7 **decisions** [5] - 35: 20, 35 : 22 , 62 : 13 , 62 : 14, 191 : 20 **deciview** [38] - 33: 5 , 75: 13, 75 : 14, 84 : 7, 84 : 9 , 84 : 19 , 85: 7 , 85: 14, 86 : 10, 115 : 18 , 115 : 21 , 115: 23 , 115 : 25 , 116: 1 , 116 :4 , 116 : 5, 116 : 8, 116 : 10 , 116 : 11 , 118: 6 , 118: 9 , 118 : 12 , 124 : 25 , 170 : 16 , 170 : 17 , 170 : 18 , 177: 8 , 177: 9 , 177 : 12 , 178: 18 , 178 : 19 , 184 : 2 , 184 :4 , 211 : 11 , 233: 24 **deciviews** [5] - 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 10

116 : 8, 177 : 22 , 178:4 , 178 : 5 **declare** [ 1 ] - 219 :6 **decline** [ 1 ] - 158 : 14 **declined** [2] - 39: 16, 39: 18 **decorum** [ 1 ] - 11 : 11 **decrease** [1 ] - 33: 15 **decree** [ 1 ] - 193 : 3 **dedicated** [2] - 24 : 14, 132 : 15 **deems** [ 1 ] - 241 : 23 **defend** [ 1 ] - 161 : 17 **defense** [1 ] - 52 : 18 **defer** [3] - 62 : 19 , 139 : 6, 205 : 11 **defining** [ 1 ] - 54 : 13 **definite** [2] - 114 : 10 **definitely** [4] - 53 : 24 , 101 : 15 , 217: 13 , 229 : 11 **definition** [1 ] - 177 : 11 **definitions** [2] - 54 : 18, 177 : 24 **definitively** [2] - 52 : 22 , 53 : 20 **defray** [ 1 ] - 26 : 13 **degradation** [1 ] - 129 : 11 **degree** [ 12] - 67 : 18 , 77: 15, 77 : 16, 168 : 15 , 172 : 7, 173 : 24 , 174 : 1 , 195 : 21 , 201 : 23 , 231 : 17 , 241 : 19 , 241 : 25 **delay** [1 ] - 48 :23 **delaying** [ 1 ] - 28 : 11 **delays** [2] - 166 : 20 , 167 : 3 **delegation** [ 1 ] - 40 : 2 **delete** [ 1 ] - 169 :25 **deleted** [ 1 ] - 209: 2 **deliberations** [5] - 54 : 11 , 238 : 19 , 238 : 21 , 239: 8 **delicate** [2] - 164 :4, 164 : 18 **Delta** [ 1 ] - 196 : 7 **demand** [2] - 98 : 23 , 99: 25 **demonstrate** [3] - 80 :4 , 85: 8 , 113: 14 **demonstrated** [3] - 36 : 15, 111 : 25 , 186: 19 **demonstrates** [2] - 145 : 9, 233 : 3 **demonstration** [2] - 111 : 25 , 234 : 11 **Denver** [1 ] - 160 : 6**depart** [2] - 66 : 7 ,

200 : 17 **department** [ 1 ] - 226 : 2 **Department** [63] - 2 : 7 , 2 : 9 , 10 : 25, 13: 11 , 13: 13, 16 : 1 , 18: 12 , 18: 23, 21 : 7 , 21 : 24, 22 : 22 , 26 : 21 , 26 : 24 , 32 : 20, 39 : 12 , 41 : 14 , 42 : 18, 44 : 2 , 44 : 20, 44 : 22 , 44 : 23, 54 : 6, 54 : 14, 58 : 15, 60 : 22 , 62 : 9 , 62 : 20 , 67: 15, 68: 5 , 68: 6 , 68 : 8 , 69: 25, 71 : 14, 72 : 2 , 73: 18, 75 : 18, 75 : 20 , 78: 6 , 113 : 20, 120 : 5 , 120 : 15 , 121 : 7 , 128: 3 , 130 : 5, 148 : 2 , 152 :25 , 163 : 20 , 186 : 24 , 202 : 5, 222 : 11 , 231 : 24 , 232 : 17 , 237 : 16 , 237: 21 , 238 : 1 , 239 : 10 , 239 : 14 , 240 : 19 , 240 : 25 , 244 : 21 , 246 : 6, 246 : 22 , 247: 10 **Department '** **s** [6] - 12 : 7 , 75: 12 , 76 : 3 , 83: 10, 120 : 12 , 210 : 16 **depressed** [1 ] - 98: 21 **derived** [ 1 ] - 140 : 14 **describe** [ 15] - 67: 16, 68: 17, 70 : 13, 71 : 14 , 77: 13, 78 : 21 , 78 : 24 , 79: 11 , 80 : 25, 81 : 25 , 84 : 13, 129 : 2 , 168 : 1 , 179 : 11 , 211 : 9 **described** [3] - 71 : 17, 175 : 22 , 180 : 8 **description** [4] - 70 :4 , 80 : 21 , 171 : 14 , 197 : 14 **design** [3] - 180 : 15 , 180 : 20 , 189: 20 **designate** [3] - 13: 12 , 16 : 23, 18 : 22 **designated** [ 1 ] - 10 : 18 **designed** [ 1 ] - 58: 20 **designee** [ 1 ] - 152 : 24 **detail** [8] - 26 : 18 , 52 : 9 , 70 : 1 , 78 :22 , 129 : 2 , 169 : 21 , 175 : 24 , 237: 1 **detailed** [4] - 70 : 3 , 169 : 25 , 180 : 7 , 209: 11 **details** [2] - 68 : 19 , 130 : 6 **detect** [ 1 ] - 49: 15 **detectible** [2] - 89: 6 , 89: 14 **DETERMINATION** [ 1 ] - 1 : 6 **Determination** [1 ] - 239 : 15 **determination** [31 ] - 10 :4 , 10 : 23 , 14 : 25, 15: 9 , 15: 11 , 15: 18, 15: 22 , 15 : 23, 16 : 3, 16 : 10, 16 : 11 , 16 : 19 , 68: 1 , 70 : 10 , 70 : 24, 71 : 25, 75 : 12 , 77 : 23 , 81 : 1 , 82 : 9 , 112 : 19, 117 : 22 , 118: 21 , 127 :4, 185 : 13 , 232 : 14 , 234 : 12 , 234 : 13 , 234 : 14 , 234 : 16 , 245: 10 **determinations** [2] - 189 : 9, 241 : 14 **determine** [ 10] - 34 : 11 , 68 : 24, 71 :4, 80 : 3 , 80 : 13 , 83: 16, 84 : 7 , 84 : 9 , 154 : 9 , 165 : 11 **determined** [5] - 13: 2 , 19: 18 , 84 : 2 , 113 : 18 , 129: 7 **determines** [2] - 71 : 11 , 80 : 15 **determining** [6] - 30 : 14, 31 :4 , 64 :4 , 73: 19, 75 : 10, 77 : 24 **detriment** [ 1 ] - 88: 24 **detrimental** [ 1 ] - 205 : 25 **devastating** [3] - 23: 1 , 46 : 19 , 134 :4 **develop** [1 ] - 22 : 10 **developed** [7] - 106 : 5, 137 : 13 , 175 : 14 , 182 : 25 , 189 : 25 , 193: 2 , 237: 23 **developing** [4] - 24 : 10, 83 : 11 , 175 :23 , 179 : 16 **development** [8] - 25: 25, 26 : 7 , 97: 5 , 135 : 11 , 135: 18 , 140 : 16 , 168: 5 , 175: 22 **Development** [3] - 32 : 8 , 34 : 25 , 186 : 24 **Deviation** [1 ] - 174 : 17 **devices** [ 1 ] - 219 : 25 **devise** [1 ] - 23 :23 **diabasic** [2] - 199 : 12 , 199: 16 **dialogue** [ 1 ] - 23: 11 **Diana** [2] - 150 :6 , 150 : 9 **DIANA** [3] - 5 : 16 , 149 : 19 , 150 : 1 **DIANE** [4] - 6 :4 , 167 : 8, 167 : 12 , 171 : 6 **Diane** [4] - 8: 21 , 14 : 6 , 171 : 6 , 179 : 21 **dice** [ 1 ] - 92 : 12 **dictate** [ 1 ] - 90 : 13 **diesel** [1 ] - 74 : 9 **difference** [ 19] - 33: 6 , 35: 19 , 53: 11 , 86 : 8 , 113 :4 , 113 : 6, 113 : 8, 124 : 25 , 125: 2 , 125 : 3, 125 : 12 , 177 : 21 , 189: 5 , 190 : 11 , 191 : 16 , 191 : 21 , 206 : 7 , 211 : 6 , 233 : 24 **differences** [4] - 125 :4, 184 : 12 , 220 : 7 , 233 : 2 **different** [34] - 15 : 21 , 24 : 11 , 25 : 1 , 29: 1 , 38: 14, 44 : 3 , 48: 8 , 52 : 6 , 53: 3 , 53 : 10 , 82 : 23, 120 : 15 , 122 : 1 , 122 : 3, 125 : 7, 126 :20 , 145 : 15 , 154 : 19 , 156 :4, 156 : 5, 156 : 12 , 182 : 11 , 193: 10 , 200 : 13 , 204 : 20 , 206 : 6, 208 : 13 , 234 : 14 , 236 : 3 , 245 : 21 , 245: 23 **different -** **looking** [ 1 ]

- 52 : 6 **difficult** [24] - 21 : 14 , 25: 11 , 26 : 16, 26 : 19 , 32 : 11 , 35 : 5 , 45: 2 , 46 : 9 , 50 : 9 , 54 :20 , 59: 10, 60 : 24, 97 : 14 , 122 : 11 , 129: 20 , 144 : 10 , 155: 14 , 155 : 20 , 156 : 22 , 164 : 3, 181 : 16 , 220 : 14 , 229: 25 , 235 : 15 **difficulties** [ 1 ] - 35 : 3 **difficulty** [2] - 60 : 22 , 97: 24 **diligently** [ 1 ] - 106 : 14 **dioxide** [6] - 15 : 13 , 33: 13, 124 : 2 , 136 :22 , 211 : 16 , 211 : 19 **diplomatic** [ 1 ] - 57: 11 **dire** [ 1 ] - 36 : 10 **DIRECT** [24] - 18 :4, 67: 7 , 77:4 , 81 : 16 , 88: 15, 92 : 24, 95 : 20 , 100 : 9, 104 : 6, 106 :24 , 131 : 22 , 139: 23 , 143 : 8, 146 :4, 150 :4 , 151 : 24 , 155:4 , 157 : 12 , 158: 20 , 167 : 15 , 195:4 , 207:4 , 224 : 14 , 227: 7 **Direct** [ 14] - 4 : 5 , 4 : 15 , 4 : 17 , 4 : 23 , 4 : 25, 5 : 9 , 5 : 11 , 5: 19, 5 :23 , 5 :25 , 6 : 15 , 8 : 10 , 8: 15, 9 :4 **direct** [21 ] - 4 : 9 , 4 : 11 , 4 : 13 , 4 : 19 , 4 : 21 , 5 : 13 , 5 : 15 , 5 : 17 , 5: 21 , 6 : 5 , 6 : 8 , 6 : 11 , 6 : 17 , 148 : 25 , 153: 2 , 162 : 15 , 169: 15 , 171 : 21 , 174 : 7 , 195 : 24 , 208: 16 **direction** [5] - 106 : 18 , 156: 15 , 156 : 24 , 195: 14 , 203 : 7 **directives** [1 ] - 153: 2 **directly** [5] - 11 : 22 , 56 : 19, 134 : 5, 152 : 15 , 181 : 2 **director** [2] - 48 : 10 , 104 : 13 **disadvantage** [2] - 21 : 22 **disappointed** [4] - 240 : 13 , 240 : 14 , 244 : 5, 244 : 7 **disappointment** [1 ] - 243 : 1 **disapproving** [ 1 ] - 64 : 5 **discernible** [ 1 ] - 211 : 7 **di sconcerting**  [ 1 ] - 59: 10 **discrete** [ 1 ] - 24 : 15 **discretion** [4] - 22 : 9 , 22 : 13, 247 : 12 **discuss** [ 1 ] - 24 : 19 **discussed** [4] - 144 : 17 , 175: 15 , 179 : 5, 222 : 1 **discussing** [ 1 ] - 24 : 15 **Discussion** [3] - 138 : 23 , 149: 18 , 219 : 17 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 11

**discussion** [ 13] - 23: 3 , 49: 17 , 52 : 8 , 107 : 25 , 121 : 11 , 121 : 12 , 141 : 22 , 166 : 14 , 197: 18 , 214 : 13 , 239:4 , 247: 1 , 249 : 9 **discussions** [ 13] - 18: 16, 23 : 24, 24 : 6, 24 : 22 , 24 : 23, 33 : 23 , 39: 17, 42 : 22 , 47 : 7, 56 : 21 , 140 : 19 , 142 :4 , 226 : 21 **dismiss** [6] - 42 : 19, 43: 1 , 43: 3 , 43 :22 , 44 : 24, 45 : 9 **dispersion** [5] - 83: 16, 168 : 8, 168 :25 , 173 : 17 , 175: 9 **displeasure** [ 1 ] - 91 : 7 **disposal** [2] - 72 : 23, 74 : 13 **disposed** [ 1 ] - 232 : 15 **dispute** [4] - 25 : 1 , 28: 21 , 30 : 1 , 222 : 3 **disputes** [1 ] - 48 : 5 **disrespect** [1 ] - 160 : 14 **distinction** [ 1 ] - 234 : 7 **distributed** [ 1 ] - 12 : 19 **distribution** [2] - 208 : 14 , 209: 24 **district** [2] - 227 : 22 , 229 : 12 **District** [8] - 140 : 8 , 153 : 18 , 189: 24 , 190 : 2 , 190 : 10 , 190 : 12 , 227: 22 , 227 : 24 **disturbance** [1 ] - 99: 20 **disturbs** [ 1 ] - 188 : 21 **divergence** [ 1 ] - 97: 18 **divergent** [ 1 ] - 25 : 14 **diverse** [2] - 212 : 3 , 213 : 15 **diversify** [2] - 34 : 15 , 213 : 16 **divide** [ 1 ] - 183 : 11 **divides** [1 ] - 184 : 1 **docketed** [1 ] - 10 : 25 **document** [ 19] - 51 : 17, 51 : 19, 51 : 21 , 52 : 6 , 52 : 8 , 54 :6 , 54 : 7, 54 : 9 , 55: 3 , 55 : 8 ,55: 10, 55 : 23, 64 : 20 ,

69: 23, 76 : 5 , 83: 11 , 175 : 14 , 175: 18 , 188 : 2 **documentation** [ 1 ] - 119 : 24 **documents** [2] - 70 : 5 , 176 : 19 **DO J**  [3] - 44 : 24 , 45: 5 , 45: 11 **dollar** [4] - 176 : 2 , 178 : 14 , 178: 18 **dollars** [ 16] - 89 :21 , 151 : 15 , 161 : 17 , 170 : 16 , 170 : 17 , 183 : 12 , 183: 19 , 183 : 21 , 184 : 3 , 189 : 13 , 201 : 3 , 201 :4 , 201 : 6, 201 : 12 **Dolores** [ 1 ] - 158 : 1 **Domingo** [ 1 ] - 100 : 13 **done** [24] - 27 : 21 , 36 : 1 , 43: 16 , 50 : 25, 51 : 13, 52 : 3 , 114 : 13 , 118 : 14 , 120 : 12 , 125 : 9, 125 : 10 , 125 : 13 , 125: 16 , 127 : 2 , 154 : 7, 158 : 7 , 160 : 5, 163 : 14 , 172 : 10 , 204 : 3 , 218 : 18 , 238: 8 , 242 : 21 **DO NG**  [5] - 4 : 12 , 5 : 5, 17: 13, 81 : 13, 110 :2 **Dong** [7] - 8 :4, 8 : 5 , 13: 14, 33 : 3 , 73: 10, 76 : 8 , 81 : 20 **Donna** [ 1 ] - 146 : 7 **DO NNA**  [3] - 5 : 14 , 139 : 18 , 146 : 1 **doubled** [ 1 ] - 190 : 10 **doubt** [4] - 56 :24 , 105 : 20 , 148: 18 , 163 : 23 **down** [47] - 25 : 13 , 28: 1 , 40 : 18 , 48: 16, 53: 7 , 87: 15 , 87: 22 , 87: 25, 88 : 11 , 90 : 8, 90 : 17, 105 : 5, 119 :6 , 119 : 11 , 128: 20 , 129 : 3, 138 : 10 , 138 : 12 , 138: 17 , 138 : 18 , 147: 20 , 149 : 15 , 149: 17 , 153 : 2 , 154 : 1 , 156 : 13 , 159 : 13 , 160 : 2 , 161 : 1 , 161 : 18 , 191 : 9 , 192 : 7 , 192 : 18 , 196 : 7 , 199: 8 , 201 : 17 , 204 : 5 , 208: 8 , 214 : 3, 214 : 18 , 215: 6 , 220 : 5, 224 : 8, 225 : 11 , 232 : 9, 232 : 25 **downstream** [1 ] - 159 : 16 **downturn** [ 1 ] - 98: 19 **Dr** [14] - 9: 5 , 14 :4 , 110 : 14 , 124 : 24 , 127 : 6, 127 : 11 , 173: 2 , 173 : 3, 175 : 20 , 180 : 2 , 182 : 20 , 184 : 14 , 233 : 20 , 242 : 14 **draft** [7] - 47: 12 , 110 : 21 , 121 : 13 , 231 : 3, 231 : 8, 234 :21 , 236 : 12 **drafted** [3] - 43 : 8, 76 : 6 , 76 : 8 **drafts** [2] - 52 :4, 239 : 17 **draw** [2] - 131 : 6 , 183 : 24 **drawed** [ 1 ] - 159 : 5 **drill** [ 1 ] - 96 : 1 **drilled** [ 1 ] - 99: 7 **drilling** [3] - 160 : 9, 160 : 10 , 160 : 18 **Drive** [ 1 ] - 2 : 10 **driv e**  [2] - 159: 20 **driv en**  [3] - 23 : 18 , 29: 1 , 36 : 18 **driv ing**  [1 ] - 18: 11 **drop** [ 1 ] - 211 : 25 **due** [8] - 20 : 19 , 20 : 23, 38 : 19, 38 : 20 , 48: 23, 142 : 5, 236 :6 , 245 : 18 **dues** [ 1 ] - 93: 13 **duly** [33] - 17 : 13 , 18: 2 , 67: 5 , 77 :2 , 81 : 14, 88 : 8 , 88: 13, 92 : 22 , 95 : 18, 100 : 7 , 104 : 1 , 104 :4, 106 :22 , 110 : 3, 131 : 20 , 139 : 19 , 139: 21 , 143 : 6, 146 : 2 , 149 :20 , 150 : 2 , 151 : 22 , 155: 2 , 157 : 10 , 158: 18 , 167 : 9, 167 : 13 , 194 : 18 , 195: 2 , 207: 2 , 224 : 12 , 227: 5 , 250 : 9 **dump** [1 ] - 159 : 18 **dumped** [ 1 ] - 159 : 12 **Dunsworth** [ 1 ] - 157 : 15 **DUNSWORTH** [4] - 5 :22 , 149 : 20, 157 : 9 , 157 : 15 **duplicate** [ 1 ] - 169 : 25 **Durango** [1 ] - 160 : 7 **duration** [1 ] - 66 : 2 **during** [ 15] - 33: 22 , 48: 1 , 48: 13 , 52 :4 , 54 : 11 , 63 : 25, 77 : 24 , 121 : 3, 133 : 21 , 165 : 24 , 228: 17 , 240 : 20 , 242 : 10 , 243 : 15 , 245: 17 **dust** [1 ] - 91 : 12 **duties** [6] - 168 :2 , 171 : 14 , 173: 13 , 195 : 13 , 207: 15 , 207 : 16 **duty** [2] - 173 : 19 , 231 : 13 

## E

**E -** **mail** [ 1 ] - 12 : 18 **early** [2] - 47 : 16, 157 : 23 **earned** [2] - 93: 24, 144 :4 **earners** [1 ] - 93 :25 **Earth** [ 1 ] - 103 : 5 **easier** [ 1 ] - 87 : 14 **easily** [ 1 ] - 90 : 21 **easy** [2] - 36 : 3 , 145 : 1 **echo** [ 1 ] - 64 : 19 **Economic** [3] - 32 : 8 , 34 : 25, 186 : 24 **economic** [41 ] - 24 : 16, 25 : 24, 26 : 3, 26 : 7 , 26 : 13 , 31 : 9 , 34 : 8 , 34 : 19 , 36 : 11 , 40 : 6 , 40 : 9 , 96 : 9 , 97 : 5, 107 : 14 , 108: 15 , 109 : 1 , 132 : 17 , 133: 5 , 134 : 25 , 135: 11 , 135 : 17 , 136 : 11 , 137 : 20 , 140 : 16 , 141 : 13 , 141 : 18 , 141 : 22 , 141 : 25 , 144 : 10 , 145: 7 , 151 : 6 , 153 : 18 , 153: 20 , 197 : 13 , 204 : 16 , 231 : 19 , 242 : 2 , 242 : 5 , 242 : 12 , 242 : 24 , 244 : 7 **economical** [1 ] - 242 :4 **economically** [4] - 98: 19, 101 : 8, 245 :24 **economics** [2] - 164 : 25 , 244 : 24 **economizer** [ 1 ] - 181 : 12 **economy** [ 14] - 97 : 3 , 97: 16, 103 : 14 , 136 : 6 , 136 : 19 , 141 : 7 , 141 : 12 , 145: 7 , 145: 8 , 147 : 17 , 147: 19 , 153 : 15 , 225: 5 **Economy** [2] - 91 : 5 , 146 : 13 **ED** [ 1 ] - 187 : 12 **educate** [1 ] - 145: 14 **education** [3] - 94 : 7 , 108 : 22 , 140 : 15 **educational** [9] - 67: 16, 77 : 13, 81 : 25 , 97: 8 , 168 : 13, 172 :4 , 173 : 22 , 195: 18 , 207 : 24 **effect** [11 ] - 30 : 19 , 31 : 2 , 31 : 8 , 37 :2 , 43: 24, 75 : 8 , 148 : 19 , 151 : 1 , 225 : 11 , 237: 7 , 247 : 17 **effective** [ 11 ] - 37: 7 , 112 : 13 , 112 : 18 , 112 : 22 , 176:4 , 176 : 7 , 178 : 15 , 184 : 3 , 184 : 7 , 199 : 14 , 212 : 2 **effectively** [2] - 72 : 14, 199 : 13 **effectiveness** [15] - 70 : 24, 71 : 24, 132 : 12 , 170 : 6, 176 : 2 , 176 : 8 , 178 : 13 , 178: 20 , 178 : 24 , 179: 2 , 183: 1 , 183 :4, 183 : 16 , 183 : 17 , 209: 1 **effects** [3] - 126 : 22 , 206 : 1 , 206 : 3 **effectuate** [ 1 ] - 218 : 10 **efficacy** [3] - 165 : 1 , 166 : 6, 199 : 11 **efficient** [3] - 90 : 16 , 90 : 22 , 194 : 17 **effort** [7] - 35: 17, 39: 2 , 39: 23 , 54 : 22 , 55: 8 , 152 : 11 , 154 :22 **efforts** [5] - 94 : 14 , 132 : 15 , 163: 10 , 169 : 5, 235 : 19 **EIB** [9] - 1 : 3 , 10 :2 , 11 : 1 , 106 : 13, 110 :6 , 133 : 9, 162 : 20 , 182 : 17 , 238: 21 **eight** [ 1 ] - 168 : 18 **eighth** [3] - 116 : 2 , 116 : 3, 116 : 6 **either** [11 ] - 20 : 25, 27: 9 , 38:4 , 92 : 18 , 112 : 7, 129 : 20 , 164 : 13 , 178: 15 , 179 : 6, 192 : 16 , 204 : 10 **El** [ 1 ] - 91 : 21 **elaborate** [ 1 ] - 19 : 10 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 12

**electric** [8] - 88 : 24 , 91 : 11 , 105 : 5, 151 : 3 , 152 : 13 , 156: 8 , 158 : 11 , 209: 23 **electrical** [ 1 ] - 34 : 13 **electricity** [ 17] - 29 : 3 , 29: 25, 30 : 12 , 40 : 13 , 89: 1 , 90 : 10 , 90 : 16, 90 : 22 , 92 : 15, 137 : 1 , 146 : 22 , 147: 2 , 147: 5 , 147 : 10 , 152 : 9 , 152 : 13 , 197: 10 **elegantly** [ 1 ] - 58 : 19 **elements** [3] - 15: 14, 106 : 9, 240 : 9 **elevation** [ 1 ] - 190 : 5 **eligible** [ 1 ] - 215 : 2 **eliminate** [2] - 70 : 21 , 246 : 3 **eliminating** [ 1 ] - 242 : 5 **elimination** [2] - 71 : 21 , 245 : 19 **ELIZA BETH**  [5] - 4 : 8, 5 :4 , 17 : 12 , 67 :4 , 110 : 2 **Elizabeth** [3] - 7 :23 , 7 :25 , 67: 11 **elsewhere** [ 1 ] - 117 : 25 **embarrassing** [ 1 ] - 209 : 5 **embodied** [ 1 ] - 90 : 1 **emission** [31 ] - 68: 25, 69 : 2 , 79: 2 , 79:4 , 79: 9 , 80 : 14 , 80 : 16, 80 : 18, 111 :25 , 112 : 12 , 112 : 20 , 113 : 7, 113 : 9, 119 : 1 , 121 : 8, 122 : 6, 124 :2 , 124 : 15 , 124 : 17 , 125 : 13 , 136: 17 , 136 : 21 , 136: 22 , 136 : 23 , 136: 25 , 145 : 10 , 164 : 24 , 175 : 12 , 199: 2 , 210 : 14 **emissions** [33] - 29: 3 , 72 : 3 , 72 :21 , 72 : 23, 73 : 23, 74 : 1 , 74 : 10, 74 : 22 , 74 : 25 , 75: 1 , 75: 3 , 79 : 17 , 79: 20, 79 : 25, 80 : 5, 89: 11 , 90 : 21 , 91 : 2 , 113 : 3, 120 : 8, 124 : 8 , 126 : 10 , 127: 16 , 159 : 9, 165 : 15 , 176: 3 , 196 : 11 , 196: 12 , 197 : 15 , 199:4 , 211 : 16 , 211 : 22 , 246 : 3 **emit** [1 ] - 126 : 10**emotional** [ 1 ] -

155 : 20 **emphasis** [ 1 ] - 208 :2 **emphasize** [6] - 21 : 5 , 22 : 5 , 54 :22 , 85: 23, 164 : 17 , 234 : 3 **emphasized** [3] - 19: 14, 27 : 16, 58 : 6 **emphasizes** [ 1 ] - 32 : 10 **employed** [ 18] - 67: 12 , 77 : 9 , 77: 10, 77: 11 , 81 : 21 , 102 :20 , 173 : 9, 195 : 11 , 207 : 10 , 207: 12 , 214 : 14 , 214 : 15 , 215 : 1 , 225 : 25 , 227 : 23 , 227: 25 , 250 : 13 , 250 : 16 **employee** [5] - 150 : 10 , 151 : 5 , 151 : 11 , 226 : 16 , 250 : 15 **employees** [6] - 108 : 11 , 133: 15 , 133 : 23 , 142 : 17 , 215 : 1 , 215 : 6 **employers** [2] - 133 : 14 , 225: 18 **employment** [5] - 167 : 22 , 171 : 9 , 173: 8 , 195 : 10 , 226 : 6 **encompass** [ 1 ] - 137 : 15 **encompassing** [ 1 ] - 168 : 5 **encourage** [6] - 49: 20, 54 : 24, 55 : 2 , 56 : 18, 65 : 8 , 102 : 12 **encroachment** [ 1 ] - 23: 6 **end** [10] - 53 : 7, 54 :4 , 88: 10, 94 : 24, 100 : 16 , 103 : 11 , 122 : 5 , 154 : 14 , 188: 8 , 188: 11 **ended** [ 1 ] - 107 :21 **endorse** [2] - 98 : 2 , 98: 22 **endorsed** [3] - 24 : 25 , 35: 7 , 48: 14 **endorses** [2] - 100 : 2 , 100 : 23 **endorsing** [ 1 ] - 39 : 3 **energy** [ 15] - 34 : 8 , 34 : 15, 34 : 16, 71 : 5, 72 : 11 , 72 : 13, 95 : 1 , 103 : 11 , 103: 14 , 108 : 23 , 147: 23 , 158 : 11 , 213: 10 , 233 : 10 , 241 : 15 **Energy** [15] - 3: 2 , 12 : 11 , 12 : 16, 14 : 8, 14 : 11 , 24 : 1 , 91 : 5 , 91 : 6 , 146 : 13, 146 : 14 , 148 : 2 , 152 :4, 152 : 8 , 208 :4 **enforceability** [1 ] - 124 : 21 **enforceable** [4] - 65: 5 , 81 : 8 , 124 : 10, 124 : 17 **engage** [5] - 14 : 12 , 28: 3 , 43: 18 , 44 : 7 , 52 : 25 **engaged** [3] - 23 :24 , 47: 16, 220 : 6 **engaging** [1 ] - 24 : 20 **engineer** [5] - 77 : 18 , 100 : 22 , 169: 8 , 182 : 10 , 195: 23 **engineering** [ 12] - 77: 17, 82 : 3 , 169 :4, 171 : 18 , 172 : 7 , 172 : 13 , 173: 25 , 174 : 2 , 174 : 5, 179 :21 , 184 : 13 , 195: 21 **engineers** [2] - 94 : 9 , 173 : 15 **enhance** [ 1 ] - 199 : 11 **enjoy** [ 1 ] - 94 : 21 **enjoyed** [ 1 ] - 34 : 21 **enjoying** [ 1 ] - 143 : 25 **ensure** [9] - 31 : 11 , 36 : 17, 47 : 21 , 50 : 7, 51 : 24, 129 : 10 , 141 : 6 , 144 : 14 , 226 : 13 **ensures** [ 1 ] - 26 : 5 **ensuring** [ 1 ] - 24 : 20 **entail** [3] - 25 : 12 , 25: 18, 129 : 5 **enter** [ 1 ] - 56 : 10 **entered** [5] - 26 : 2 , 26 : 12 , 46 :4 , 52 : 12 , 56 : 20 **entertain** [ 1 ] - 221 : 24 **entire** [3] - 47 :4 , 166 : 6, 200 : 11 **entirely** [ 1 ] - 213: 3 **entirety** [ 1 ] - 15 : 6 **entities** [ 1 ] - 152 : 10 **entitled** [2] - 1 : 15, 53: 15 **entity** [4] - 29 : 5, 140 : 10 , 143: 22 , 225 : 6 **entrance** [ 1 ] - 86 : 20 **entries** [ 1 ] - 13: 16 **entry** [2] - 12 : 12 , 12 : 15 **Environment** [25] - 2 : 7 , 2 : 9 , 10 : 25, 13: 11 , 18: 12 , 18 : 22 , 21 : 7, 21 : 24, 22 : 22 , 26 : 21 , 32 : 20, 39 : 11 , 41 : 14 , 42 : 18, 44 : 2 , 68: 8 , 78: 6 , 113 : 20, 130 : 5 , 152 : 24 , 163: 20 , 202 : 5, 210 : 15 , 231 : 24 , 239: 14 **environment** [6] - 88: 22 , 141 : 7, 148 :20 , 158 : 6, 160 : 23 , 240 : 21 **environmental** [47] - 24 : 3 , 24 :4 , 24 : 5 , 24 : 17, 25 : 2 , 25:4 , 32 : 21 , 33 : 10, 33 : 17 , 34 : 7 , 35: 10 , 35: 11 , 35: 12 , 35 : 14, 48 :4, 67: 19, 71 : 7 , 72 : 16, 82 : 3 , 92 :4 , 97 : 16 , 99: 9 , 99: 19 , 100 : 20 , 101 : 1 , 105 : 25 , 132 : 16 , 136 : 11 , 136 : 15 , 141 : 20 , 141 : 25 , 145: 9 , 150 : 15 , 160 : 5 , 164 : 12 , 168:4 , 173 : 11 , 173: 17 , 179 :4, 192 : 20 , 210 : 23 , 211 : 13 , 241 : 16 , 242 : 23 , 244 : 25 , 245: 16 **ENVIRONMENTAL** [ 1 ] - 1 : 1 **Environmental** [9] - 1 : 16 , 2 : 2 , 7: 9 , 10 : 18 , 78: 5 , 81 : 3 , 89 : 19 , 104 : 25 , 105:4 **environmentalist** [1 ]

- 103 :4 **envisioned** [ 1 ] - 235 : 21 **EPA** [ 163] - 15 : 5, 15: 11 , 15 : 20, 16 : 1 , 19: 18, 20 : 1 , 20 : 3 , 20 : 13, 20 : 17, 21 : 24 , 22 : 5 , 22 : 15 , 22 : 23, 23: 2 , 23: 5 , 23 : 8 , 23: 11 , 23 : 15, 23 : 18 , 27: 5 , 27: 11 , 27: 15, 27: 21 , 28 : 1 , 28: 3 , 28: 6 , 28: 12 , 29: 16, 31 : 15, 34 : 11 , 35 : 9, 36 :4 , 36 : 16 , 36 : 17, 37: 25, 38 : 3 , 38: 8 , 38: 10, 38 : 12 , 38 : 13 , 39: 9 , 39: 13 , 39: 15, 41 : 23, 42 : 3 , 42 : 6 , 42 : 9 , 42 : 15 , 42 : 19, 43: 1 , 43: 8 , 43 : 12 , 44 : 6 , 44 : 8 , 44 :23 , 44 : 25, 45 : 9 , 45: 12 , 46 : 3 , 46 :4 , 46 : 11 , 46 : 14, 47 : 6 , 47: 12 , 47: 15, 47 : 19, 47 : 21 , 47: 25, 48 : 16, 49 : 24 , 50 :4 , 52 : 1 , 52 : 10 , 52 : 12 , 52 : 14, 52 : 18 , 53: 23, 55 : 10, 55 : 15 , 55: 16, 55 : 23, 56 : 20 , 57: 6 , 57: 14 , 57: 18, 57: 20, 57 : 24, 57 : 25 , 58: 6 , 58: 15 , 58: 17, 59: 1 , 64 :4 , 64 : 11 , 64 : 12 , 64 : 14, 68 : 9, 70 : 12 , 81 : 7 , 83: 19, 83: 20, 84 : 6 , 90 : 2 , 90 : 3 , 90 : 13 , 92 : 12 , 98: 8 , 105 : 6 , 105 : 16 , 106 : 5, 106 : 15 , 113 : 19 , 114 : 15 , 121 : 9, 121 : 12 , 121 : 22 , 121 : 24 , 122 :4, 122 : 11 , 125: 6 , 127 : 22 , 132 : 16 , 133 : 9, 135 : 3, 135 : 8 , 136 : 5, 141 : 1 , 147 : 16 , 153 : 2 , 153 : 6, 164 :22 , 166 : 15 , 175: 21 , 176 : 22 , 177: 11 , 177 : 23 , 178: 10 , 186 : 22 , 187: 10 , 187 : 20 , 188: 22 , 190 : 17 , 191 : 2 , 191 : 12 , 192 : 12 , 214 : 2 , 218 : 3, 218 : 8 , 218 : 14 , 219: 5 , 221 : 18 , 222 : 10 , 231 : 6, 232 : 10 , 232 : 17 , 240 : 14 , 240 : 19 , 243: 2 , 243: 5 , 243 : 12 **EPA '** **s** [21 ] - 20 : 5, 20 : 14, 22 : 1 , 22 : 2 , 22 : 16, 25 : 20, 27 : 2 , 32 : 15, 48 : 23, 51 : 20 , 73: 14, 141 : 17 , 170 : 12 , 176: 12 , 176 : 13 , 180 : 12 , 180 : 18 , 182 : 5 , 189: 6 , 218 : 24 , 242 : 23 **EPA -** **approved** [ 1 ] - 83: 19 **EPA -** **mandated** [ 1 ] - 29: 16 **EPA -** **recommended** [ 1 ] - 84 : 6 **EPC** [2] - 184 : 15, 190 : 24 **equal** [ 1 ] - 177 : 19 **equally** [ 1 ] - 26 : 1 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 13

**equations** [4] - 189 : 24 , 190 : 1 , 190 : 2 **equipment** [5] - 72 : 14, 197 : 16 , 199: 9 , 199 : 12 , 242 : 7 **Ernie** [ 1 ] - 238 : 8 **eroding** [ 1 ] - 132 : 21 **erred** [ 1 ] - 28: 1 **errors** [9] - 69 :20 , 69: 21 , 69 : 23, 70 : 2 , 70 :4 , 75: 12 , 193 : 23 , 194 : 1 , 239 : 18 **ESP** [2] - 181 : 13, 181 : 14 **especially** [6] - 94 : 25, 109 : 2 , 109 : 14 , 150 : 15 , 150 : 18 , 226 : 8 **essentially** [ 1 ] - 122 : 15 **establish** [ 1 ] - 202 : 17 **established** [4] - 20 :4 , 80 : 19 , 89: 13, 114 : 11 **estimate** [7] - 90 :23 , 135 : 8, 180 : 7, 180 : 9 , 190 : 19 , 191 : 14 **estimated** [4] - 119 : 6, 120 : 7, 135 : 7 , 151 : 2 **estimates** [9] - 72 : 7 , 179 : 18 , 182 : 13 , 182 : 16 , 182 : 24 , 184 : 10 , 189: 5 , 191 : 16 **estimating** [3] - 70 : 24, 120 : 7, 218 :25 **et** [2] - 56 : 6, 59: 18 **evaluate** [3] - 20 : 20, 82 : 12 , 84 :4 **evaluating** [2] - 24 : 9 , 192 : 10 **evaluation** [6] - 80 : 11 , 80 : 13, 80 : 15 , 84 : 12 , 114 : 13 , 239: 13 **evangelistic** [ 1 ] - 89: 18 **evangelists** [3] - 88: 22 , 91 :4 , 91 : 5 **eventually** [6] - 11 : 23, 20 : 13, 28 : 14 , 29: 8 , 42 : 2 , 135: 13 **EVERETT** [3] - 4 : 20, 88: 8 , 100 : 6 **Everett** [ 1 ] - 100 : 12 **everywhere** [ 1 ] - 155 : 22 **evidence** [ 13] - 86 : 25, 98 : 7 , 174 : 24 , 175 : 2 , 196 : 23 , 197: 1 , 204 : 25 , 209: 15 ,209 : 18 , 223: 10 ,

230 : 23 , 235: 21 , 241 : 7 **Evidence** [1 ] - 11 : 10 **evil** [ 1 ] - 89: 17 **evolution** [1 ] - 193:4 **exact** [3] - 48 : 7, 204 : 3, 247 : 19 **exactly** [9] - 33 : 1 , 35: 25, 48 : 6 , 49:4 , 58: 24, 62 : 20, 161 :25 , 162 : 2 , 229 : 3 **EXAMINATION** [14] - 36 : 21 , 60 : 12 , 67 : 7, 77:4 , 81 : 16 , 110 : 11 , 128 : 11 , 167: 15 , 185 : 1 , 195 :4, 202 : 9 , 207 :4, 212 : 12 , 215: 15 **Examination** [ 13] - 4 :6 , 4 : 7 , 4 : 9 , 4 : 11 , 4 : 13 , 5 : 7, 6 : 5 , 6 : 6, 6 : 8 , 6 : 9 , 6 : 11 , 6 : 12 , 6 : 13 **examination** [ 11 ] - 5 :6 , 11 : 14 , 11 : 17 , 14 : 12 , 59 : 24, 76 : 23 , 110 : 7, 128 : 2 , 128 :6 , 184 : 22 , 194 : 5 **examine** [ 1 ] - 59: 22 **examined** [29] - 17: 17, 17 : 18, 18 : 3, 67: 6 , 77: 3 , 81 : 15 , 88: 14, 92 : 23, 95 : 19 , 100 : 8, 104 : 5, 106 :23 , 110 :4, 131 : 21 , 139 : 22 , 143: 7 , 146 : 3 , 150 : 3, 151 : 23 , 154 : 16 , 155: 3 , 157 : 11 , 158: 19 , 167 : 14 , 195: 3 , 207: 3 , 224 : 13 , 227: 6 **examiner** [1 ] - 130 : 10 **Examiner** [5] - 14 : 9 , 60 : 17, 62 : 24, 66 :4, 162 : 23 **examining** [4] - 63 :4, 130 : 20 , 218: 22 , 218 : 23 **example** [3] - 48: 3 , 52 : 14, 156 : 7 **exceeding** [3] - 84 : 9, 85: 6 , 85: 14 **excellent** [2] - 102 : 23 , 243: 23 **except** [3] - 76 : 7, 158 : 13 , 168: 23 **exceptions** [ 1 ] - 122 : 21 **exchanged** [ 1 ] - 52 : 5 **exclusively** [ 1 ] - 61 : 16 **excuse** [ 11 ] - 15 : 7, 71 : 7 , 72 : 25 , 80 : 17, 112 : 8, 112 : 10 , 123 : 12 , 123: 13 , 160 : 16 , 161 : 6 , 161 : 10 **execute** [2] - 43: 13 , 171 : 18 **executive** [ 1 ] - 104 : 13 **exercise** [3] - 54 : 24, 124 : 5, 164 : 19 **exercising** [ 1 ] - 58: 17 **exhausted** [2] - 229 :4, 229 : 5 **Exhibit** [32] - 67 : 22 , 68: 11 , 68 : 14, 69 : 8, 69: 14, 70 : 3 , 75: 7 , 75: 24, 76 : 3 , 76 : 14, 77: 20, 78 : 13, 78 : 18 , 82 : 5 , 82 : 19 , 83: 6 , 83: 9 , 86 : 17 , 169 : 16 , 171 : 22 , 174 : 8 , 183: 2 , 183 : 13 , 196 : 1 , 196 : 14 , 196 : 23 , 197 : 1 , 208 : 18 , 209 : 15 , 209: 18 , 239 : 19 **exhibit** [2] - 69 : 25 , 70 : 6 **Exhibits** [8] - 86 : 15 , 86 : 24, 174 : 23 , 175: 2 , 230 : 8, 230 : 10 , 230 : 20 , 230 : 22 **exhibits** [6] - 8 : 14 , 8 : 19 , 8 : 24 , 9 : 9, 86 : 20, 230 : 12 **existence** [ 1 ] - 158 : 14 **existing** [9] - 25: 24 , 99:4 , 99: 8 , 99 :22 , 225 : 1 , 225 : 11 , 232 : 16 , 232 : 18 , 241 : 16 **expect** [2] - 158: 10 , 215 : 7 **expectations** [1 ] - 200 : 13 **expected** [5] - 27: 25, 70 : 25, 71 : 12 , 220 :20 , 220 : 22 **expensive** [4] - 34 : 1 , 134 : 20 , 135: 6 , 141 : 16 **experience** [7] - 168 : 14 , 172 : 5 , 173 : 23 , 174 :4 , 207 : 25 , 218: 7 , 242 : 7 **experienced** [ 1 ] - 97: 9 **expert** [1 ] - 169: 11 **expertise** [1 ] - 236 : 3 **experts** [3] - 24 : 7 , 160 : 19 , 219: 10 **Expires** [2] - 250 : 20 , 250 : 22 **explain** [4] - 26 : 17, 114 : 23 , 197: 12 , 207 : 14 **explained** [3] - 28 : 7, 184 : 12 , 190 : 13 **explaining** [ 1 ] - 120 : 17 **explicit** [ 1 ] - 222 : 15 **exposure** [ 1 ] - 213 : 14 **express** [3] - 104 : 20 , 144 : 19 , 222 : 14 **expressed** [ 1 ] - 91 : 7 **extend** [2] - 73 : 5, 229 : 8 **extended** [1 ] - 220 : 21 **extends** [3] - 48 :22 , 144 : 7, 144 : 8 **extension** [ 1 ] - 48: 25 **extensions** [2] - 48: 25, 50 : 2 **extensive** [ 1 ] - 23 : 24 **extent** [2] - 129 : 19 , 166 : 24 **extra** [ 1 ] - 194 : 22 **extreme** [3] - 88 : 24, 164 : 18 , 164 : 19 **extremely** [4] - 36 : 14, 57 : 21 , 141 : 11 , 181 : 11 **eye** [4] - 33 : 7, 75: 15, 177 : 13 , 211 : 7 

## F

**F -** **I -** **S -** **C -** **H -** **E -** **R** [ 1 ] - 171 : 7 **face** [3] - 43: 2 , 220 : 3 , 243 : 8 **faced** [3] - 29 :4 , 97: 13, 141 : 24 **faces** [ 1 ] - 14 : 5 **facilitate** [ 1 ] - 32 : 1 **facilities** [3] - 30 :4, 189 : 2 , 195 : 15 **facility** [8] - 74 : 3 , 84 : 17, 116 : 18 , 117: 1 , 124 : 12 , 178: 22 , 200 : 12 , 246 : 2 **facility '** **s** [2] - 118 :23 , 119 : 1 **facility -** **wide** [2] - 84 : 17, 178 : 22 **facing** [4] - 29 : 9, 35: 3 , 144 : 11 **fact** [23] - 22 : 7 , 26 : 1 , 27: 14, 29 : 24, 29 : 25 , 30 : 8 , 31 : 6 , 43 : 9 , 46 : 2 , 53: 14, 57 : 18, 59 : 10 , 91 : 21 , 147 : 18 , 147 : 24 , 163: 6 , 186 : 21 , 211 : 6 , 215: 3 , 225 : 13 , 230 : 9 , 233 : 25 , 235: 20 **factor** [ 14] - 30 : 8 , 73: 2 , 85: 14 , 113 : 13 , 113 : 15 , 113: 16 , 147 :4, 165 : 12 , 181 : 18 , 183: 8 , 190 : 7 , 232 : 23 , 233: 10 , 237 : 23 **factored** [1 ] - 189 : 10 **factors** [17] - 26 : 23, 29: 1 , 30 : 13 , 32 : 22 , 175 : 22 , 176: 10 , 190 :4, 190 : 9, 190 : 11 , 190 : 21 , 232 : 9 , 232 : 11 , 232 : 15 , 232 : 25 , 233: 3 , 237: 2 , 245 : 16 **facts** [4] - 241 : 24 , 247 : 23 , 248: 22 , 249 : 5 **failed** [ 1 ] - 28 : 1 **failing** [ 1 ] - 22 : 23 **failure** [7] - 21 : 3 , 21 : 12 , 21 : 20, 27 : 2 , 58: 6 , 58: 16 , 187 : 6 **fair** [ 10] - 46 : 14 , 62 : 23, 128 : 25 , 138: 9 , 138 : 11 , 190 : 18 , 202 : 21 , 214 : 24 , 217 : 20 , 217: 21 **fairly** [2] - 96 : 18, 199 : 25 **fairy** [1 ] - 91 : 12 **faith** [10] - 46 :4 , 46 : 9 , 47: 6 , 55: 15 , 56 : 21 , 64 : 11 , 186 : 19 , 188:4 , 188 : 6, 243 : 6 **fall** [3] - 55: 6 , 101 : 14, 205 : 1 **falls** [ 1 ] - 47 : 2 **familiar** [4] - 14 : 5, 38: 5 , 62 : 2 , 215: 24 **familiarity** [ 1 ] - 241 : 5 **familiarize** [ 1 ] - 215 : 24 **families** [3] - 144 : 5, 153 : 23 , 226: 8 **family** [10] - 93 : 18, 102 : 19 , 144 : 3 , 144 : 7 , 144 : 9, 155 : 25 , 163: 8 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 14

226 : 8, 228 : 1 **far** [ 15] - 19 : 24 , 20 : 8, 37: 25, 38 : 8 , 62 : 21 , 75: 15, 102 : 16 , 102 : 18 , 150 : 14 , 160 : 3, 163 : 25 , 197 : 19 , 210 : 20 , 243 : 17 , 246: 17 **farm** [ 1 ] - 91 : 22 **farmed** [1 ] - 107: 9 **farmers** [ 1 ] - 107 : 11 **farming** [1 ] - 107: 8 **Farmington** [ 10] - 1 : 18 , 24 : 12 , 93: 21 , 96 : 16, 97 : 21 , 143 : 14 , 156 : 7, 157 : 7, 213 : 18 , 224 : 25 **fashion** [ 1 ] - 37 : 15 **favor** [8] - 58 : 25 , 150 : 11 , 151 : 18 , 228 : 11 , 239: 5 , 240 : 2 , 247 : 2 , 249 : 10 **Fe** [5] - 2 : 11 , 3:4 , 100 : 15 , 148: 7 , 148: 12 **fearful** [ 1 ] - 55 :22 **feasible** [ 1 ] - 245 : 25 **feasibly** [ 1 ] - 201 : 18 **feature** [1 ] - 164 : 11 **federal** [67] - 15 : 20 , 22 : 25, 23 : 8 , 23: 17, 27: 3 , 27: 9 , 27 : 12 , 28: 1 , 28: 9 , 28 : 12 , 28: 14, 29 : 6 , 29: 9 , 30 : 15, 30 : 19, 31 : 1 , 31 : 7 , 33: 6 , 33 : 9 , 34 : 1 , 34 : 5 , 34 : 12 , 37: 13, 37: 18, 37 : 19, 37 : 22 , 41 : 24, 42 : 5 , 42 : 20, 43: 18, 45 : 6 , 46 : 16, 46 : 21 , 46 : 23, 47 : 9, 59:4 , 89: 11 , 90 : 21 , 97: 15, 98 : 6 , 101 : 6, 102 : 8, 127 : 15 , 134 : 13 , 134 : 19 , 134 : 23 , 136: 20 , 137 : 14 , 137: 1 9 , 141 : 17 , 150 : 14 , 150 : 25 , 153: 11 , 164 : 14 , 210 : 11 , 210 : 21 , 210 : 23 , 211 : 12 , 211 : 21 , 211 : 24 , 240 :4 , 240 : 5 , 240 : 11 , 244 : 14 , 244 : 17 , 244 : 23 **Federal** [ 12] - 20 : 3 , 20 : 12 , 21 : 2 , 73: 14, 77: 25, 141 : 1 , 141 : 9 , 141 : 11 , 141 : 15 , 166 : 17 , 230 : 11 , 243 : 13**feed** [2] - 99: 21 ,

134 : 9 **feelings** [2] - 25: 1 , 50 : 18 **feet** [2] - 107: 19, 180 : 25 **felt** [5] - 22 : 15 , 22 : 24, 101 : 9, 243 : 5 , 243 : 10 **FERC** [2] - 62 :4, 166 :4 **few** [12] - 14 : 19 , 36 : 24, 60 : 8 , 60 : 20, 60 : 25, 156 : 17 , 160 :4 , 163 : 1 , 169 : 20 , 206 : 5 , 215 : 14 , 219: 22 **field** [ 1 ] - 97: 8 **fields** [2] - 145 : 15 , 226 : 10 **fifth** [3] - 71 : 10 , 73 : 8, 176 : 9 **fight** [5] - 22 :4, 23 : 5, 30 : 2 , 159 : 11 , 160 : 1 **fighting** [2] - 27: 18, 245 : 2 **Figure** [4] - 84 : 18 , 85: 8 , 85: 16 , 85: 17 **figure** [7] - 23 : 11 , 32 : 13, 36 : 8 , 84 : 21 , 85: 6 , 85: 8 , 196 : 12 **Figures** [ 1 ] - 110 : 19 **file** [2] - 12 : 6 , 217: 9 **Filed** [ 1 ] - 8: 20 **filed** [21 ] - 10 : 24 , 12 : 12 , 12 : 13, 21 : 23 , 22 : 20, 22 : 23, 23 : 2 , 38: 8 , 38: 22 , 39: 13, 42 : 19, 166 : 22 , 166 : 23 , 174 : 7 , 174 : 24 , 176 : 19 , 186 : 5, 186 : 11 , 186 : 15 , 208: 17 , 248 : 25 **files** [3] - 176 : 14 , 176 : 20 , 176 : 24 **filing** [5] - 14 : 13, 40 : 21 , 172 : 1 , 217 :4 , 244 : 22 **filings** [ 1 ] - 163 : 18 **filling** [2] - 248 :23 , 248 : 25 **filmed** [ 1 ] - 216 : 17 **final** [6] - 81 : 11 , 112 : 20 , 122 : 22 , 166 : 12 , 220 : 25 , 234 : 22 **finally** [2] - 76 : 9 , 209 : 5 **financially** [ 1 ] - 250 : 16 **findings** [ 1 ] - 73 : 18 **fine** [5] - 121 : 21 , 149 : 8, 197 : 25 , 202 : 16 , 222 : 7 **finger** [2] - 36 :4, 57: 18 **fingers** [1 ] - 166 : 25 **finish** [2] - 35 : 16, 211 : 15 **FIP** [29] - 15: 21 , 94 : 15, 164 : 9, 170 : 12 , 176 : 5, 176 : 13 , 176 : 15 , 176 : 19 , 176 : 21 , 177: 1 , 177 : 15 , 177: 20 , 178 : 8, 178 : 11 , 178 : 21 , 179: 1 , 179: 6 , 180 : 18 , 182 : 5 , 184 :4 , 190 : 17 , 192 :4 , 198: 6 , 211 : 5, 220 : 11 , 234 :4 , 234 : 16 , 242 : 23 , 244 : 23 **fired** [ 16] - 28: 22 , 28: 25, 29 : 3 , 29: 24, 30 : 2 , 30 :4 , 30 :6 , 30 : 12 , 34 : 13, 61 :4, 90 : 18, 90 : 24, 105 : 5 , 146 : 16 , 168: 6 , 168: 17 **firmer** [ 1 ] - 50 : 2 **first** [66] - 17 : 7 , 18 : 2 , 18: 21 , 26 : 20, 36 : 16 , 38: 7 , 41 : 10 , 49: 8 , 49: 9 , 49: 13 , 60 : 1 , 63: 18, 67 : 2 , 67: 5 , 77: 2 , 79: 14 , 81 : 14, 83: 15, 88 : 13, 89 : 10 , 92 : 22 , 95 : 18, 96 :4, 98: 5 , 100 : 7 , 102 : 6, 104 :4, 106 : 22 , 110 : 3 , 119 : 25 , 121 : 2 , 131 : 14 , 131 : 20 , 133 : 7, 139 : 21 , 143: 6 , 146 : 2 , 150 : 2 , 151 :22 , 155 : 2 , 157 : 10 , 158 : 18 , 160 : 1 , 163: 3 , 165 : 5, 166 : 9, 167 : 11 , 167 : 13 , 175:4 , 176 : 17 , 180 : 18 , 195 : 2 , 196 : 11 , 199 : 25 , 207: 2 , 210 : 18 , 213: 11 , 215 : 19 , 222 : 8 , 223 : 24 , 224 : 12 , 224 : 22 , 227: 5 , 230 : 7 , 242 : 20 **Fischer** [ 11 ] - 8 : 22 , 14 : 6 , 169 : 10, 169 : 14 , 171 : 3, 171 :4, 171 :6 , 179 : 21 , 182 : 21 , 190 : 15 , 211 : 9 **FISCHER** [ 17] - 6 :4 , 167 : 8, 167 : 12 , 171 : 6 , 171 : 10 , 171 : 15 , 171 : 23 , 172 : 2 , 172 : 6 , 172 : 16 , 172 : 21 , 172 : 25 , 182 : 23 , 190 : 14 , 190 : 16 , 192 : 11 , 192 : 14 **fit** [ 1 ] - 213 : 9 **five** [16] - 70 : 15 , 71 : 15, 71 : 16, 142 : 19 , 145 : 14 , 149: 15 , 156 : 5, 165 : 12 , 175 : 23 , 177: 19 , 232 : 9, 237 : 23 , 240 : 9 , 241 : 18 , 243: 19 , 243 : 22 **five -** **factor** [2] - 165 : 12 , 237: 23 **five -** **step** [3] - 71 : 15 , 71 : 16, 175 : 23 **fixed** [2] - 101 : 14 , 181 : 24 **flawed** [ 1 ] - 120 : 14 **fleet** [2] - 197 : 7 , 197 : 9 **flex** [ 1 ] - 215 : 6 **flexibility** [ 1 ] - 154 : 1 **flow** [2] - 36 : 11 , 147 : 9 **flowing** [ 1 ] - 34 : 20 **fly** [6] - 50 : 25 , 51 : 13, 52 : 3 , 73: 1 , 74 : 13 , 159 : 18 **Flynn** [ 13] - 13: 13, 16 :4 , 16 : 22 , 17: 8 , 18: 21 , 41 : 2 , 60 : 21 , 63: 5 , 153 : 3 , 231 : 24 , 235 : 3, 243 :4, 243 : 10 **FLYNN** [34] - 4 :4 , 17: 12 , 18 : 1 , 18: 5 , 37:4 , 37: 7 , 37 : 10 , 37: 14, 37 : 17, 38 : 1 , 38: 9 , 38: 24 , 40 : 23, 41 : 6 , 43: 25 , 44 : 22 , 45: 20, 46 : 2 , 47: 14, 49: 3 , 49: 8 , 49 : 11 , 49: 23, 50 : 16, 51 : 2 , 51 :4 , 51 : 8 , 54 : 19 , 56 : 7 , 57: 7 , 57 : 10 , 59: 17, 59 : 20, 63 : 7 **Flynn '** **s** [ 1 ] - 64 : 19 **focus** [ 1 ] - 232 :4 **focused** [ 1 ] - 175: 15 **focuses** [1 ] - 173: 16 **focusing** [ 1 ] - 71 : 17 **folded** [ 1 ] - 224 : 23 **folding** [ 1 ] - 229 : 2 **follow** [7] - 48 : 20 , 102 : 22 , 126 : 2 , 182 : 5 , 187 : 22 , 192 : 25 , 238 : 21 **follow -** **up** [ 1 ] - 126 : 2 **followed** [10] - 27 : 11 , 142 : 3, 144 : 16 , 175 : 21 , 180 : 8 , 180 : 10 , 181 : 21 , 226 : 21 , 245: 14 **Followed** [ 1 ] - 174 : 16 **following** [7] - 50 : 24, 105 : 12 , 106: 2 , 112 : 14 , 170 : 3 , 239 : 12 , 243: 19 **follows** [25] - 18 : 3 , 67: 6 , 77: 3 , 81 : 15 , 88: 14, 92 : 23, 95 : 19 , 100 : 8, 104 : 5, 106 :23 , 110 :4, 131 : 21 , 139 : 22 , 143: 7 , 146 : 3 , 150 : 3, 151 : 23 , 155: 3 , 157 : 11 , 158: 19 , 167 : 14 , 195: 3 , 207: 3 , 224 : 13 , 227: 6 **fondly** [ 1 ] - 89 : 1 **food** [2] - 134 : 14 **foolishness** [ 1 ] - 92 : 6 **FOR** [ 1 ] - 1 : 5 **forced** [4] - 21 : 9 , 28: 15, 29 : 18, 147 : 8 **forces** [1 ] - 102 : 6 **forecasting** [ 1 ] - 207 : 18 **foregoing** [2] - 250 : 7, 250 : 8 **foreseeable** [2] - 220 : 16 , 220 : 19 **forget** [ 1 ] - 48 : 6 **forgot** [3] - 133 : 8, 147 : 12 , 147: 22 **fork** [ 1 ] - 89: 20 **form** [2] - 16 : 18, 37: 15 **formality** [ 1 ] - 45 :4 **formally** [3] - 15 : 24 , 18: 20, 209 : 15 **format** [ 1 ] - 166 :24 **formatting** [1 ] - 55 :4 **former** [5] - 97: 20, 100 : 19 , 151 : 5 , 156 : 16 , 157: 7 **forms** [ 1 ] - 28 : 23 **formula** [1 ] - 189: 8 **formulating** [ 1 ] - 65: 7 **Fort** [ 1 ] - 94 : 5 **forth** [4] - 51 : 23 , 146 : 19 , 177: 5 , 228: 3 **fortunate** [2] - 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 15

143 : 24 , 214 : 25 **forum** [ 1 ] - 240 : 15 **forward** [38] - 23: 10 , 24 : 10, 25 : 17, 26 : 15 , 26 : 18, 30 : 21 , 31 : 5, 32 : 13, 32 : 19, 32 : 23 , 34 : 11 , 35 : 5 , 36 : 8 , 42 : 17, 42 : 25, 43 : 5, 44 : 24, 47 : 5 , 48: 12 , 48: 14, 50 : 20, 50 : 22 , 53: 18, 54 : 2 , 55: 1 , 55: 9 , 55: 13 , 62 : 3 , 97: 22 , 137 : 18 , 186 : 25 , 200 : 13 , 212 : 24 , 220 : 12 , 226 : 18 , 237: 8 , 240 : 23 , 241 : 10 **fossil** [5] - 88 : 23 , 89: 8 , 89: 17 , 91 :4 , 91 : 11 **fouled** [ 1 ] - 159 : 10 **foundation** [ 1 ] - 181 : 15 **foundations** [1 ] - 97:4 **four** [46] - 24 : 11 , 30 : 18, 72 : 7 , 72 : 8 , 74 : 7 , 74 : 17 , 85: 2 , 85: 5 , 85: 9 , 85 : 13 , 85: 18, 85 : 24, 86 :4, 86 : 9 , 88: 3 , 105: 8 , 123 : 7, 133 : 2 , 134 :22 , 137 : 12 , 139: 2 , 139 : 15 , 140 : 7 , 140 : 9 , 140 : 23 , 141 :4 , 149 : 14 , 149: 15 , 170 : 12 , 170 : 14 , 175 : 15 , 177: 15 , 178 : 10 , 180 : 23 , 182 : 6, 182 : 11 , 184 : 14 , 189: 21 , 198 : 8, 233 : 7, 233 :23 , 234 : 1 , 234 : 3, 234 : 15 , 241 : 17 **Four** [22] - 24 : 13 , 25: 25, 26 : 8 , 32 : 8 , 34 : 8 , 34 : 24 , 96 : 10, 97: 3 , 98: 12 , 99: 6 , 101 : 9, 107 : 16 , 107 : 18 , 108: 16 , 135 : 18 , 137:4 , 142 : 1 , 146 : 17 , 151 : 10 , 197 : 13 , 205: 8 , 225: 15 **four -** **unit** [7] - 85 : 2 , 85: 5 , 85: 9 , 85 : 13 , 85: 18, 85 : 24, 86 :4 **fourth** [ 1 ] - 73: 2 **fragmented** [ 1 ] - 16 : 15 **frame** [2] - 132 : 12 ,153 : 20 **framework** [ 1 ] - 58: 25 **Francis** [ 1 ] - 2 : 10 **Francisco** [1 ] - 107 : 21 **frequency** [1 ] - 177 : 25 **frequently** [ 1 ] - 57: 14 **friends** [2] - 93: 18 , 97: 20 **front** [7] - 92 : 16 , 97: 25, 100 : 3, 114 : 8 , 203 : 11 , 235: 13 **fruition** [3] - 43 : 13 , 43: 21 , 47 : 22 **Fruitland** [3] - 142 : 23 , 224 : 24 , 226 : 24 **frustration** [2] - 191 : 15 , 191 : 19 **fry** [ 1 ] - 138 : 19 **fuel** [15] - 79 : 24 , 80 : 1 , 80 : 2 , 80 : 8 , 88: 23, 89 : 8 , 89: 18, 91 : 11 , 128 : 22 , 129: 8 , 129 : 15 , 195: 16 , 206 : 6, 206 : 7 **fuels** [ 1 ] - 91 : 5 **FULFER** [35] - 2 : 3 , 36 : 24, 37 : 6 , 37: 8 , 37: 11 , 37 : 15, 37 : 23 , 38: 7 , 38: 21 , 40 : 5 , 40 : 24, 111 :4, 111 : 11 , 112 : 14 , 112 : 24 , 113 : 10 , 113: 17 , 114 : 19 , 115: 5 , 115 : 10 , 115: 12 , 116 : 13 , 116 : 20 , 117 :4, 117 : 12 , 118: 1 , 118 : 13 , 126 : 2 , 126 :4 , 127 : 13 , 212 : 15 , 212 : 18 , 213: 5 , 244 : 3 , 244 : 5 **Fulfer** [ 10] - 36 : 23, 37:4 , 37: 17 , 38: 1 , 38: 9 , 38: 25 , 56 : 2 , 111 : 8, 114 : 7, 126 : 15 **fulfilled** [ 1 ] - 41 : 10 **full** [22] - 25 : 24, 88: 17, 93 : 1 , 94 : 11 , 95: 21 , 100 : 10 , 104 : 8 , 107 : 1 , 121 : 11 , 131 : 24 , 138: 14 , 139 : 25 , 143: 10 , 148 : 13 , 150 : 5 , 155: 5 , 157 : 13 , 158: 21 , 165 : 7, 215 : 7, 224 : 16 , 227 : 9 **full -** **time** [ 1 ] - 94 : 11 **fully** [ 15] - 19 : 8 , 21 : 15, 34 : 12 , 56 : 21 , 121 : 12 , 163: 5 , 163 : 19 , 188: 9 , 193 : 11 , 193: 13 , 206 : 10 , 210 : 13 , 220 : 9, 226 :4, 237 :20 **function** [2] - 163 : 9, 180 : 6 **functions** [2] - 195 : 17 , 207: 17 **fund** [ 1 ] - 134 : 12 **fundamental** [2] - 68: 17, 210 : 17 **funded** [ 1 ] - 37: 13 **funding** [5] - 37: 22 , 37: 25, 38 : 2 , 56 : 5 , 244 : 15 **funny** [ 1 ] - 51 : 10 **future** [ 16] - 29 : 11 , 105 : 25 , 106 : 6 , 107 : 25 , 108: 5 , 109: 2 , 140 : 19 , 145: 14 , 219 : 12 , 220 : 13 , 220 : 16 , 220 : 19 , 221 : 15 , 226 : 5 , 226 : 6 **fuzzy** [ 1 ] - 121 : 24 

## G

**G -** **A -** **I -** **A -** **W -** **A -** **D** [ 1 ] - 173 : 6 **G -** **O -** **N -** **Z -** **A -** **L -** **E -** **S** [ 1 ]

- 155 : 7 **G -** **O -** **U -** **L -** **D** [ 1 ] - 152 : 2 **GA IKWAD**  [ 14] - 6 :4 , 167 : 8, 167 : 12 , 173: 5 , 173 : 9, 173 : 14 , 173 : 19 , 173: 24 , 174 : 9, 174 : 12 , 174 : 15 , 174 : 21 , 180 : 5, 189 : 15 **Gaikwad** [ 10] - 9: 5 , 14 :4 , 173 : 2 , 173 : 3, 173 : 5, 175 : 20 , 180 : 2 , 182 : 20 , 184 : 14 **gain** [2] - 119 : 15 , 245 : 16 **gallons** [1 ] - 159: 14 **game** [ 1 ] - 232 : 21 **gap** [1 ] - 189: 12 **gas** [45] - 26 : 9, 29: 22 , 30 : 7 , 32 :4 , 34 : 17, 61 :4 , 61 : 6 , 74 : 24, 79 : 16, 79 : 19 , 90 : 18, 90 : 20, 90 : 24 , 95: 8 , 96 : 2 , 97 :6 , 98: 15, 98 : 16, 98 : 20 , 98: 23, 99 : 1 , 99: 3 , 99: 5 , 99: 18 , 99: 21 , 99: 23, 100 : 1 , 103 : 13 , 105 : 17 , 106 : 10 , 108 : 9, 136 : 24 , 137: 3 , 137 : 5, 142 : 14 , 146 : 21 , 147: 18 , 151 : 9, 151 : 11 , 151 : 12 , 168: 6 , 181 : 1 , 181 : 7, 203 : 20 **Gas** [4] - 95 :25 , 98 :2 , 98: 21 , 100 : 1 **gas -** **fired** [3] - 61 :4 , 90 : 18, 90 : 24 **gathering** [ 1 ] - 99 :4 **gee** [ 1 ] - 90 : 5 **General** [8] - 2 : 8 , 2 : 9 , 3 : 3 , 23:4 , 39 :6 , 39: 10, 39 : 16, 40 : 15 **general** [ 18] - 13 : 11 , 14 : 10, 18 : 25, 43 :4, 52 : 13, 53 : 2 , 63: 24, 78: 24, 79 : 11 , 89 : 9, 127 : 23 , 147: 7 , 152 : 3 , 171 : 14 , 175: 7 , 189: 1 , 190 : 1 , 216 : 2 **General '** **s** [2] - 23 :4, 38: 23 **generally** [7] - 13:4 , 62 : 2 , 62 : 5 , 62 : 15 , 62 : 16, 129 : 24 , 185:4 **generate** [ 1 ] - 137 : 1 **generated** [2] - 29 : 3, 233 : 15 **Generating** [75] - 7 : 14 , 10 : 5 , 10 :22 , 15: 1 , 15: 9 , 15 : 12 , 15: 18, 19 : 20, 20 :4, 22 : 12 , 25 : 6 , 25: 13, 29: 10, 29 : 12 , 30 : 5, 30 : 9 , 30 : 16 , 33: 15, 68: 1 , 70 : 11 , 71 : 16, 73: 22 , 77 : 23, 79 : 3, 81 : 5 , 82 : 9 , 93 :6 , 96 : 12 , 104 : 22 , 107: 5 , 107 : 16 , 108: 1 , 109: 7 , 117 : 11 , 117: 23 , 127 : 5, 129 : 19 , 132 : 9 , 133 : 3, 133 : 13 , 133 : 22 , 134 : 22 , 135 :4, 137 : 7, 137 : 11 , 140 : 20 , 140 : 22 , 140 : 24 , 141 : 24 , 142 : 7, 142 : 13 , 142 : 16 , 142 : 25 , 143 : 2 , 144 : 21 , 145 : 20 , 150 : 12 , 151 : 1 , 156 : 1 , 164 : 10 , 165 : 14 , 166 : 22 , 169 : 12 , 175: 8 , 197: 8 , 197 : 12 , 203: 22 , 210 : 6, 225 : 17 , 225 : 23 , 225: 25 , 226 : 20 , 227: 1 , 228: 8 , 239 : 15 **GENERATING** [ 1 ] - 1 : 5 **generating** [7] - 29: 20, 30 :4 , 90 : 19, 105 : 5, 108 : 11 , 146 : 21 , 195: 15 **generation** [22] - 14 : 3 , 28: 23 , 28: 25, 30 : 2 , 30 : 6 , 34 : 13 , 40 : 8 , 61 :4 , 89 : 8 , 91 : 11 , 98 : 17, 98 : 25 , 165 : 25 , 167: 25 , 195 : 12 , 197: 7 , 209 : 24 , 212 :4 , 216 : 9 , 221 : 15 , 221 : 17 , 233 : 14 **generic** [ 1 ] - 189 : 8 **gentleman** [ 1 ] - 139 : 13 **gentlemen** [2] - 87: 21 , 140 : 2 **germane** [2] - 221 : 17 , 222 : 18 **gI** [ 1 ] - 81 : 13 **GI** [4] - 4 : 12 , 5 : 5 , 17: 13, 110 : 2 **Gi** [7] - 8:4 , 8 : 5, 13: 14, 33 : 3 , 73: 10, 76 : 8 , 81 : 20 **gI -** **DONG** [ 1 ] - 81 : 13 **Gi -** **Dong** [7] - 8 :4, 8 : 5 , 13 : 14 , 33 : 3 , 73: 10, 76 : 8 , 81 : 20 **GI -** **DONG** [4] - 4 : 12 , 5 : 5 , 17 : 13 , 110 : 2 **Gina** [1 ] - 48 : 1 **given** [6] - 29 : 23, 76 : 10, 105 : 13 , 152 : 21 , 187: 21 , 250 : 12 **glad** [2] - 110 : 20 , 165 : 22 **global** [2] - 88 : 22 , 91 : 3 **goal** [2] - 108 : 15 , 108 : 17 **goals** [2] - 15 : 2 , 108 : 22 **Gonzales** [ 1 ] - 155 : 7 **GONZALES** [4] - 5 :20 , 149 : 19, 155 : 1 , 155 : 7 **GOULD** [26] - 3 : 3, 5 : 18 , 14 : 9 , 60 : 7 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 16

60 : 13, 66 :4 , 128 : 9, 128 : 12 , 128: 13 , 128 : 16 , 128: 20 , 129 : 2 , 129 : 14 , 129 : 21 , 130 : 9 , 149 : 19 , 151 : 21 , 151 : 25 , 194 : 9 , 202 : 8 , 202 : 10 , 215: 14 , 215 : 16 , 219: 19 , 222 : 7, 238 : 7 **Gould** [18] - 4 : 7 , 5 : 7, 6 : 9 , 6 : 13, 14 : 10 , 60 : 6, 66 : 2 , 128 : 8 , 128 : 18 , 129 : 6, 130 : 1 , 152 :2 , 194 : 8, 202 : 7, 215 : 13 , 215 : 18 , 223: 3 , 238: 5 **governances** [ 1 ] - 156 : 6 **governing** [2] - 140 : 10 , 225: 6 **government** [ 11 ] - 23: 17, 24 : 2 , 37: 13, 43: 18, 101 : 7, 134 : 13 , 201 : 15 , 240 :4 , 240 : 5 , 240 : 6, 244 : 17 **government '** **s** [1 ] - 240 : 11 **governmental** [ 1 ] - 207 : 19 **governments** [2] - 102 : 8 **Governor** [ 14] - 18: 12 , 18 : 23, 21 : 23 , 22 : 22 , 36 : 15, 38 : 21 , 39: 12 , 40 : 1 , 40 : 20, 42 : 18, 43 : 1 , 100 : 19 , 136 : 7, 244 : 21 **Governor '** **s** [2] - 35: 17, 154 : 2 **grade** [1 ] - 207: 18 **graduate** [ 1 ] - 67: 20 **Grand** [ 1 ] - 157 :24 **grand** [ 1 ] - 245: 22 **Grande** [ 1 ] - 101 : 10 **grandkids** [ 1 ] - 162 : 5 **grant** [ 1 ] - 12 : 14 **GRA NTHAM**  [37] - 2 : 8 , 10 : 11 , 10 : 14 , 13: 8 , 14 : 17 , 17: 10, 17: 15, 17 : 22 , 59 : 21 , 63: 13, 63 : 17, 63 : 20 , 66 : 24, 67 : 8 , 70 : 6 , 70 : 9 , 76 : 25 , 77: 5 , 81 : 17, 87 : 8 , 87: 24, 111 : 8, 115 : 6, 126 : 15 , 130 : 16 , 130 : 18 , 131 : 5, 194 : 7, 202 :6 , 215 : 12 , 223: 18 , 223 : 23 , 229: 22 , 230 : 24 , 236: 15 ,236 : 18 , 236 : 22 **Grantham** [19] - 4 : 9 , 4 : 11 , 4 : 13 , 10 : 7 , 13 : 6, 13: 10, 14 : 16, 18 : 10 , 59: 11 , 59 : 15, 63 : 11 , 66 : 22 , 66 : 23, 109 :25 , 130 : 14 , 223: 17 , 229 : 21 , 237: 1 , 242 : 13 **graphs** [1 ] - 242 : 14 **grassroots** [ 1 ] - 104 : 15 **gray** [1 ] - 157: 20 **great** [ 16] - 18: 9 , 19:4 , 41 : 7 , 57 : 12 , 105 : 8, 107 : 14 , 134 : 16 , 138: 20 , 139 : 17 , 147: 19 , 151 : 12 , 164 : 21 , 192 : 20 , 205: 3 , 231 : 21 , 240 : 8 **greater** [2] - 20 : 10 , 91 : 21 **greatest** [2] - 35: 11 , 107 : 13 **greatly** [2] - 106 : 11 , 225 :4 **green** [9] - 146 : 25, 147 :4, 147 : 6, 147 :23 , 147 : 25 , 148: 5 , 148: 6 , 148 : 11 , 148: 13 **greenhouse** [3] - 105 : 17 , 106 : 10 , 136 : 24 **greenies** [ 1 ] - 148: 15 **Greg** [ 1 ] - 244 : 2 **GREGORY** [ 1 ] - 2 : 3 **grew** [1 ] - 93 : 8 **ground** [ 1 ] - 64 : 5 **grounded** [ 1 ] - 91 : 11 **grounds** [3] - 58: 7 , 58: 17, 237 : 24 **Group** [2] - 32 : 8 , 34 : 25 **group** [2] - 35 : 13 , 89: 18 **group '** **s** [2] - 149 : 6 , 173 : 19 **groups** [11 ] - 24 : 3 , 24 :4 , 24 : 5 , 25 : 3 , 25 : 5, 87: 14, 146 : 12 , 146 : 15 , 146 : 25 , 148 : 6, 150 : 17 **growth** [ 1 ] - 97 : 8 **guarantee** [2] - 31 : 19, 92 : 13 **guarantees** [1 ] - 56 : 3 **guess** [20] - 13: 18, 18: 20, 18 : 21 , 37 : 11 , 37: 23, 40 : 15, 40 : 20 , 102 : 13 , 119: 25 , 121 : 20 , 122 : 7 , 124 : 6 , 126 : 12 , 127: 13 , 149 : 12 , 157: 5 , 188 : 21 , 204 : 9 , 235 : 13 , 245: 3 **guidance** [ 1 ] - 50 : 1 **guideline** [2] - 82 : 12 , 84 : 1 **guidelines** [ 14] - 7 : 8 , 70 : 12 , 70 : 14, 70 : 15 , 89: 12 , 89 : 13, 90 : 21 , 91 : 2 , 175 : 21 , 180 : 8 , 180 : 9, 180 : 11 , 181 : 22 , 189: 6 **guise** [ 1 ] - 218 : 13 **guy** [ 1 ] - 211 : 9 **guys** [ 1 ] - 162 : 9 

## H

**H -** **A -** **R -** **W -** **O -** **O -** **D** [ 1 ] - 224 : 18 **H -** **E -** **N -** **K -** **E** [1 ] - 95: 24 **hair** [ 1 ] - 157 :20 **half** [21 ] - 20 : 22 , 20 : 23, 21 : 11 , 22 : 8, 27: 15, 33 : 5 , 38: 20, 74 : 8 , 90 : 9 , 90 : 10 , 91 : 19, 92 : 16, 92 : 17 , 123 : 20 , 126 : 14 , 147 : 25 , 178: 6 , 191 :4 , 201 : 18 , 233: 24 , 246 : 2 **halfway** [2] - 128 : 20 , 196 : 6 **hand** [ 1 ] - 214 : 19 **handful** [ 1 ] - 38 : 13 **handle** [ 1 ] - 98 : 13 **handling** [1 ] - 72 :24 **hands** [6] - 63 : 5, 65: 24, 138 : 24 , 139: 9 , 149 : 12 , 224 : 5 **hang** [ 1 ] - 100 : 17 **happily** [ 1 ] - 215 : 9 **happy** [7] - 19 : 10 , 88: 25, 102 : 13 , 108: 7 , 138 : 8, 144 : 23 , 182 : 23 **harassment** [1 ] - 11 : 17 **hard** [8] - 40 : 6, 40 : 9 , 102 : 23 , 123:4 , 163:4 , 220 : 14 , 230 : 2 , 236 :4 **harder** [ 1 ] - 244 :24 **hardest** [ 1 ] - 40 : 9 **harsh** [1 ] - 141 : 18 **HARWOOD** [3] - 6 : 14 , 224 : 11 , 224 : 17 **Harwood** [2] - 224 : 17 , 224 : 20 **hate** [3] - 55: 5 , 55 :6 , 55: 20 **haul** [ 1 ] - 96 : 23 **haystack** [ 1 ] - 127 : 18 **hazardous** [ 1 ] - 219 : 7 **haze** [21 ] - 10 : 2 , 14 : 23, 15 : 6 , 19: 18, 20 : 17, 20 : 21 , 21 : 1 , 21 : 2 , 21 : 3 , 37 :20 , 38: 11 , 89 : 5 , 104 : 22 , 107 : 23 , 148: 21 , 150 : 20 , 163: 15 , 192 : 21 , 210 : 19 , 210 : 24 , 212 : 3 **Haze** [5] - 15 :4, 132 : 14 , 145: 6 , 164 : 6 , 234 : 8 **head** [2] - 138 : 13 , 149 : 13 **header** [2] - 170 : 12 , 170 : 14 **headers** [2] - 54 : 12 , 54 : 18 **headings** [ 1 ] - 65: 9 **headquartered** [1 ] - 210 : 3 **health** [5] - 153 : 18 , 153 : 20 , 188: 24 , 231 : 17 , 242 : 1 **hear** [9] - 60 : 11 , 64 : 24, 102 : 13 , 108: 7 , 139 : 7, 155 : 19 , 202 : 13 , 202 : 16 , 205 : 24 **heard** [19] - 11 : 7 , 88: 2 , 98: 7 , 127: 15, 141 : 9, 156 : 19 , 161 :4 , 172 : 17 , 198: 7 , 203: 1 , 211 :4, 211 : 14 , 228 : 10 , 231 : 21 , 232 : 6, 233 : 1 , 233 : 11 , 233 : 16 , 233: 20 **hearing** [32] - 1 : 16 , 7 : 16 , 10 : 2 , 10 :20 , 11 : 3 , 11 : 6 , 11 : 7 , 11 : 19, 12 : 7 , 12 : 23, 41 : 15, 48 : 2 , 48: 13, 62 : 24, 76 : 9 , 86 : 22 , 110 : 6, 126 : 16 , 126 : 25 , 127: 1 , 130 : 10 , 163: 14 , 168 : 14 , 212 : 19 , 238 : 11 , 238: 12 , 238 : 13 , 238: 20 , 242 : 10 , 243: 3 , 243 : 15 , 245: 17 **Hearing** [32] - 10 : 19 , 13: 8 , 13: 21 , 14 : 9 , 14 : 17, 51 : 7 , 51 : 11 , 54 : 19, 56 : 7 , 57: 7 , 60 : 17, 63 : 13, 66 :4, 66 : 24, 88 : 20, 111 : 19 , 115 : 14 , 121 : 10 , 122 : 9, 123 : 9, 128 :4 , 130 : 18 , 130 : 23 , 131 : 6, 139 : 3, 146 : 5 , 152 : 1 , 162 : 23 , 174 : 22 , 209: 14 , 223 : 9, 229 : 22 **hearings** [2] - 154 : 14 , 165: 24 **heat** [1 ] - 205 : 21 **heater** [1 ] - 181 : 12 **heavily** [2] - 24 : 5 , 31 : 3 **held** [2] - 10 : 20, 162 : 7 **hell '** **s** [ 1 ] - 160 : 7 **hello** [ 1 ] - 107 :2 **help** [9] - 37: 16, 117 : 8, 145 : 14 , 156 : 1 , 228 : 12 , 229: 8 , 229: 9 , 240 : 21 , 246: 19 **helped** [3] - 94 : 7, 228 :4 **helpful** [3] - 65 : 8, 179 : 10 , 242 : 15 **helping** [2] - 135: 22 , 240 : 22 **helps** [3] - 34 : 19 , 108 : 16 , 213: 15 **hence** [ 1 ] - 147 : 10 **HENKE** [5] - 4 : 18 , 66 : 7 , 88: 7 , 95 : 17 , 95: 23 **Henke** [3] - 66 : 6, 87: 22 , 95 : 23 **hereby** [ 1 ] - 250 : 7 **hereto** [ 1 ] - 250 : 16 **high** [9] - 116 : 2 , 116 : 3, 116 : 6, 116 : 7 , 138 : 13 , 147: 10 , 189 : 14 **higher** [5] - 116: 9 , 116 : 10 , 134 : 2 , 151 : 3 , 152 : 20 **highlight** [ 1 ] - 97 : 18 **highly** [2] - 27 :20 , 134 : 1 **highway s**  [ 1 ] - 103 : 12 **himself** [ 1 ] - 152 : 25 **hire** [ 1 ] - 215 :4 **hired** [4] - 96 : 13 , 133 : 21 , 160 : 2 , 160 : 3 **history** [5] - 35: 12 , 96 : 12 , 195 : 19 , 214 : 1 , 219 : 21 **hit** [2] - 148 : 15 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 17

244 : 7 **hold** [1 ] - 122 :4 **holds** [ 1 ] - 226 : 6 **hole** [ 1 ] - 154 : 10 **hollow** [ 1 ] - 36 : 3 **HO LT**  [10] - 2 : 5 , 185 : 3, 185 : 10 , 185 : 16 , 185: 24 , 187 : 10 , 188: 13 , 239 : 3, 239 : 25 , 246: 25 **home** [4] - 102 : 16 , 102 : 19 , 220 : 10 , 229 : 16 **honed** [ 1 ] - 49: 14 **honest** [ 1 ] - 35 : 21 **honor** [3] - 18 : 7, 19: 1 , 56 : 25 **honorable** [ 1 ] - 102 :4 **hook** [ 1 ] - 55: 23 **hope** [ 10] - 133 : 9 , 144 : 9, 148 : 21 , 163 : 15 , 163: 21 , 197 : 23 , 221 : 11 , 228 : 19 , 237: 9 , 244 : 19 **hopefully** [2] - 42 :4 , 50 : 17 **hour** [ 1 ] - 1 : 18 **hours** [ 1 ] - 105: 1 **house** [2] - 159 : 13 , 223 : 20 **household** [3] - 133 : 25 , 134 : 2 , 134 : 5 **housekeeping** [ 1 ] - 230 : 5 **houses** [2] - 219: 24, 231 : 25 **Hubert** [2] - 224 : 17 , 224 : 20 **HUBERT** [3] - 6 : 14 , 224 : 11 , 224 : 18 **huge** [ 1 ] - 92 : 5 **human** [4] - 33 : 7 , 75: 15, 75 : 16, 177 : 13 **hundred** [1 ] - 138 : 15 **hundreds** [ 1 ] - 107 : 9 **hunt** [ 1 ] - 5 : 24 **HUNT** [3] - 158: 17, 158 : 23 , 162 : 12 **Hunt** [ 1 ] - 158 :23 **hurdle** [1 ] - 220 : 13 **hypothetical** [1 ] - 115 : 21 **hypotheticals** [ 1 ] - 121 : 5 

## I

**idea** [2] - 91 : 10,114 : 18 **ideal** [ 1 ] - 156 : 18 **identification** [ 1 ] - 71 : 19 **identify** [2] - 69 : 19 , 70 : 18 **ignoring** [ 1 ] - 147 : 24 **imagine** [1 ] - 220 : 15 **immediate** [ 1 ] - 144 : 9 **immediately** [3] - 22 : 23, 112 : 13 , 112 : 18 **impact** [37] - 46 : 21 , 46 : 22 , 73 : 6 , 80 : 6 , 83: 13, 84 : 17, 84 : 22 , 85: 5 , 96 : 9 , 99 : 3 , 99 : 9, 99: 16, 99 : 19, 101 : 8 , 101 : 20 , 109: 1 , 117: 1 , 117 : 3, 129 :4, 133 : 5 , 134 : 25 , 135: 12 , 137 : 16 , 137: 20 , 141 : 7, 141 : 12 , 151 : 8 , 153 : 14 , 165: 1 , 181 : 18 , 197: 13 , 203 : 3, 203 : 5, 212 : 5 , 218 : 16 , 248: 13 **impacted** [6] - 80 : 7 , 100 : 25 , 101 : 7 , 102 : 11 , 129: 11 , 201 : 23 **impactful** [1 ] - 101 : 19 **impacts** [42] - 22 : 24, 24 : 16, 24 : 17, 29 : 2 , 34 : 5 , 34 : 8 , 46 :23 , 71 : 3 , 71 :4 , 71 : 5 , 71 : 7, 71 : 10, 72 :4 , 72 : 11 , 72 : 16, 73 : 3 , 73: 8 , 76 : 8 , 84 :4 , 92 :4 , 101 : 13 , 117: 18 , 127 :4, 141 : 23 , 144 : 10 , 144 : 24 , 145 : 7, 145 : 8, 151 :6 , 164 : 8, 175 : 19 , 177 : 19 , 178: 3 , 178: 9 , 181 : 3, 204 : 16 , 225: 5 , 225 : 10 , 233: 11 , 241 : 16 , 246 :4 **impairment** [4] - 85: 2 , 117 : 6 , 126 : 7, 136 : 23 **impending** [ 1 ] - 144 : 24 **imperceptible** [3] - 75: 14, 177 : 23 , 179: 1 **implement** [3] - 108 : 18 , 165: 7 , 187: 1 **implementation** [4] - 15: 21 , 22 : 11 , 109 : 7 , 228 : 7 **IMPLEMENTATION** [ 1 ] - 1 :4 **Implementation** [63]

- 10 : 3, 10 : 21 , 15: 17, 16 : 8 , 16 : 14 , 18: 13, 18: 18, 19 : 17, 20 : 3, 20 : 12 , 21 : 2 , 21 : 21 , 23: 7 , 24 : 16 , 27: 2 , 27: 6 , 27: 22 , 28: 2 , 28: 5 , 31 : 14 , 32 : 19, 32 : 24, 33 : 18, 33 : 19 , 36 : 2 , 38: 17 , 73: 14, 77: 25, 81 :4 , 93: 6 , 94 : 14, 98 : 3 , 98: 8 , 99: 15, 100 : 2 , 103 : 19 , 104 : 21 , 126 : 18 , 132 : 9, 140 : 21 , 141 : 2 , 141 : 9, 141 : 11 , 141 : 15 , 142 : 6 , 142 : 24 , 144 : 20 , 145 : 19 , 150 : 11 , 152 : 6, 152 : 18 , 163 : 19 , 166 : 17 , 182 : 2 , 210 : 9, 210 : 16 , 226 : 20 , 226 : 25 , 232 : 6, 234 : 20 , 243: 13 **implemented** [3] - 164 : 9, 180 : 19 , 188: 9 **implications** [1 ] - 81 : 1 **implicitly** [ 1 ] - 187 : 16 **importance** [2] - 97: 2 , 197 : 9 **important** [17] - 20 : 15, 21 : 5 , 22 :4 , 22 : 21 , 26 : 1 , 27: 7 , 103 : 9, 103 : 10 , 108:4 , 133 : 10 , 137: 18 , 163 : 9, 165 : 3, 183 :23 , 185 : 18 , 198: 3 , 226 : 7 **importation** [ 1 ] - 30 : 11 **impose** [4] - 23 : 8 , 58: 18, 65 : 2 , 243 : 13 **imposed** [2] - 36 : 12 , 164 : 9 **imposing** [1 ] - 59: 3 **impressed** [1 ] - 36 : 14 **improve** [6] - 25: 22 , 85: 18, 129 : 15 , 177 : 16 , 205: 21 , 212 : 2 **IMPROVEMENT** [ 1 ] - 1 : 1 **improvement** [17] - 35: 11 , 71 : 11 , 73 : 12 , 82 : 12 , 84 : 10, 85 : 15 , 85: 21 , 86 : 3 , 89: 6 , 136 : 18 , 164 : 21 , 170 : 5, 177 : 9, 178 : 19 , 184 : 2 , 233 : 22 , 241 : 19 **Improvement** [6] - 1 : 16 , 2 : 2 , 10 : 18 , 81 : 3, 105 : 1 , 170 : 15 **improvements** [8] - 20 : 10, 32 : 21 , 32 : 25 , 33:4 , 33: 8 , 73 : 11 , 73: 13, 84 : 13 **improving** [2] - 85: 11 , 136 : 6 **IN** [ 1 ] - 1 :4 **inclination** [2] - 193 : 17 , 241 : 1 **inclined** [3] - 42 : 14, 42 : 15, 55 : 1 **include** [7] - 13 :25 , 117 : 2 , 137 : 2 , 168 :4 , 200 : 18 , 200 : 19 , 239 : 19 **included** [2] - 14 : 24, 77: 19 **includes** [ 11 ] - 68 : 5 , 90 : 8 , 108 : 12 , 135 : 9 , 135 : 16 , 137: 8 , 140 : 15 , 142 : 9 , 142 : 11 , 164 : 12 , 193 : 22 **including** [32] - 8 : 14, 8 : 19 , 8 : 24 , 9 : 8, 15: 6 , 15: 7 , 23: 25 , 24 : 1 , 24 : 12 , 26 : 12 , 30 : 21 , 33: 24, 34 : 22 , 35 : 7, 39: 3 , 45: 3 , 76 : 11 , 83: 20, 86 : 16, 101 :23 , 136 : 17 , 142 : 17 , 147 : 16 , 166 : 1 , 166 :4 , 182 : 12 , 231 : 19 , 231 : 23 , 234 : 23 , 241 : 24 , 242 : 2 **income** [2] - 134 : 2 , 134 : 17 **incomes** [ 1 ] - 101 : 14 **inconvenience** [ 1 ] - 239 : 1 **incorporate** [5] - 64 : 25, 81 : 6 , 117 : 14 , 121 : 8, 122 : 14 **incorporated** [3] - 64 : 19, 110 : 20 , 185: 13 **incorporates** [ 1 ] - 127 : 7 **increase** [7] - 80 : 5 , 97: 7 , 98: 23 , 99: 25, 124 : 17 , 124 : 20 , 199 : 16 **increased** [ 1 ] - 190 : 7 **increases** [5] - 181 : 1 , 181 : 8, 181 : 14 , 181 : 20 , 190 : 5 **incredible** [ 1 ] - 54 : 8 **incurred** [1 ] - 47 :4 **indeed** [2] - 204 : 17 , 204 : 18 **independent** [ 1 ] - 29: 15 **index** [ 1 ] - 181 : 19 **India** [2] - 173 :25 , 174 : 1 **Indian** [ 1 ] - 174 : 1 **indicate** [1 ] - 98: 7 **indicated** [6] - 16 : 22 , 87: 16, 99 : 2 , 163 : 18 , 186 : 13 , 218: 2 **indicates** [2] - 80 : 15, 177 : 18 **indicating** [ 1 ] - 85: 23 **indications** [ 1 ] - 198 : 17 **indicative** [ 1 ] - 198 : 9 **indirectly** [ 1 ] - 134 : 5 **indistinguishable** [ 1 ] - 233: 23 **individual** [ 1 ] - 178 :2 **Industrial** [8] - 3 : 2 , 12 : 11 , 12 : 16, 14 : 8, 14 : 11 , 24 : 1 , 152 :4, 152 : 8 **industry** [5] - 97 : 6, 129 : 25 , 147: 19 , 147 : 24 , 195: 20 **inevitable** [ 1 ] - 28 : 12 **infeasible** [2] - 70 : 22 , 71 : 21 **informal** [ 1 ] - 47: 13 **information** [9] - 71 : 17, 120 : 2 , 127 :25 , 175 : 12 , 175: 19 , 179 : 24 , 182 : 10 , 187 : 5, 243 : 14 **infrastructure** [2] - 99: 5 , 99: 23 **inherited** [4] - 21 : 6, 26 : 20, 36 : 5 , 36 : 6 **initial** [2] - 52 : 7, 192 : 23 **initiate** [ 1 ] - 41 : 24 **initiation** [1 ] - 169: 1 **Initiative** [ 1 ] - 145 : 13 **initiatives** [3] - 105 : 18 , 105: 19 , 151 : 15 **injected** [2] - 79 : 16 , 79: 19 **injection** [2] - 79 :21 **injury** [2] - 231 : 17 , 241 : 25 **inlet** [ 1 ] - 181 : 12 **inorganic** [ 1 ] - 125 : 14 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 18

**input** [3] - 49 : 19 , 102 : 13 , 176: 24 **insert** [1 ] - 222 : 20 **inserted** [2] - 62 : 10, 83: 2 **insertion** [ 1 ] - 221 : 3 **install** [6] - 68 :21 , 90 : 18, 134 : 20 , 135: 5 , 135 : 7, 204 : 18 **installation** [20] - 20 : 6 , 29: 16 , 48: 22 , 71 : 1 , 71 : 8 , 71 : 12 , 72 : 7 , 72 : 9 , 73 :24 , 79: 2 , 136 : 16, 137 : 9 , 141 : 3, 142 : 10 , 197 : 20 , 198: 10 , 198 : 12 , 198: 13 , 211 : 1 **installations** [1 ] - 92 : 1 **installed** [5] - 70 : 20, 123 : 7, 181 : 13 , 193: 2 , 219 : 25 **installing** [2] - 90 : 23, 141 : 14 **instance** [2] - 122 : 21 , 248: 22 **instead** [ 1 ] - 244 : 22 **Institute** [2] - 148 : 1 , 174 : 1 **institution** [ 1 ] - 136 : 2 **intact** [ 1 ] - 65: 12 **intend** [2] - 12 : 24, 121 : 12 **intended** [ 1 ] - 122 : 23 **intends** [ 1 ] - 186 : 17 **intent** [14] - 12 : 8, 12 : 9 , 17: 16 , 64 : 12 , 159 : 25 , 169: 16 , 188 : 12 , 192 : 21 , 192 : 23 , 193: 18 , 199 : 15 , 230 : 14 , 230 : 17 , 245: 22 **intention** [3] - 42 : 17 , 49: 2 , 51 : 13 **intentional** [ 1 ] - 64 : 22 **intentionally** [1 ] - 35: 18 **intentions** [1 ] - 186 : 14 **intents** [ 1 ] - 249 : 1 **interest** [ 10] - 25 : 16 , 35: 21 , 39 : 8 , 39: 24, 40 : 3 , 101 : 15, 137 :23 , 141 : 5, 210 : 7, 242 :2 **interested** [4] - 23: 20, 138 : 18 , 224 : 6 , 250 : 17 **interesting** [2] -49: 14, 187 : 13 **interests** [9] - 23 : 16 , 35: 23, 140 : 11 , 143 : 23 , 144 : 14 , 225 : 7, 226 : 14 , 231 : 19 , 231 : 22 **interference** [2] - 231 : 17 , 241 : 25 **interfering** [1 ] - 126 : 18 **interject** [ 1 ] - 222 :4 **interlinked** [2] - 93: 17, 94 : 18 **interplay** [1 ] - 248: 11 **interpretation** [2] - 244 : 10 , 245: 15 **interrupt** [ 1 ] - 223 : 18 **interstate** [2] - 103 : 12 , 126 : 22 **intervene** [2] - 12 : 12 , 12 : 15 **intervenors** [ 1 ] - 42 : 21 **intimidation** [ 1 ] - 11 : 18 **intricate** [ 1 ] - 177 : 13 **introduce** [2] - 13 : 7 , 18: 20 **introduction** [ 1 ] - 96 : 11 **inventory** [ 1 ] - 96 : 14 **invest** [3] - 29 : 13 , 30 : 15 **investment** [6] - 29: 12 , 29 : 19, 120 : 8 , 129 : 12 , 220 : 1 , 220 : 5 **investor** [ 1 ] - 210 : 1 **investor -** **owned** [ 1 ] - 210 : 1 **invite** [ 1 ] - 138 : 17 **involved** [13] - 24 : 5, 39: 17, 47 : 11 , 48 : 7, 48: 9 , 76 :4 , 78 : 1 , 78 :4, 107 : 24 , 144 : 14 , 226 : 13 , 242 : 6 , 242 : 8 **involvement** [2] - 83: 11 , 248 : 10 **Iowa** [2] - 67 : 19 , 172 : 7 **iPad** [1 ] - 133: 7 **ironic** [3] - 57: 14 , 57: 21 , 58 : 5 **irony** [1 ] - 57: 17 **issuance** [ 1 ] - 112 : 20 **issue** [23] - 19: 5 , 27: 1 , 33: 2 , 37 : 16 , 44 : 3 , 57: 6 , 83 : 12 , 97: 23, 112 : 10 , 121 : 14 , 142 :4 , 148 : 16 , 163: 17 , 165 : 19 , 166 : 15 , 188 : 16 , 198: 24 , 219 : 6, 221 : 17 , 226 : 21 , 232 : 5 , 234 : 22 , 245:4 **issued** [2] - 112 : 11 , 122 : 5 **issues** [15] - 19 : 8, 19: 11 , 49 : 14, 62 : 5, 62 : 7 , 62 : 17 , 66 : 21 , 155 : 20 , 156 :4 , 166 : 13 , 168: 8 , 214 : 22 , 218:4 , 237: 5 , 244 : 19 **IT** [1 ] - 1 : 14 **itchy** [ 1 ] - 107 : 19 **item** [2] - 10 : 1 , 238 : 20 **itself** [5] - 44 : 11 , 176 : 15 , 178: 14 , 186 :4, 187 : 20 

## J

**Jackson** [ 1 ] - 228 : 23 **JAMES** [8] - 2 :4 , 4 : 14 , 4 : 24 , 88 : 7 , 88: 12 , 88 : 18, 104 : 1 , 106 : 21 **James** [2] - 88 : 18 , 107 : 3 **January** [3] - 20 :24 , 48: 22 , 123 : 7 **jeopardize** [ 1 ] - 44 : 11 **jet** [ 1 ] - 161 : 1 **job** [44] - 31 : 23, 31 : 24, 32 : 5 , 120 : 16 , 132 : 19 , 133: 1 , 133 : 11 , 134 : 1 , 134 :4 , 134 : 9, 134 : 24 , 135: 2 , 135 : 5, 135 : 15 , 136 : 6 , 136 : 8, 137 : 22 , 137 : 25 , 138: 5 , 144 : 25 , 145: 6 , 147 : 25 , 148: 5 , 151 : 15 , 167: 22 , 168 : 2 , 171 : 9, 171 : 14 , 173 : 8, 173 : 13 , 191 :4 , 195 : 10 , 195: 13 , 197 : 25 , 201 : 3 , 207 : 11 , 207: 15 , 207 : 16 , 215: 8 , 215: 9 , 225 : 14 , 228: 2 , 242 : 22 , 243: 22 **jobs** [37] - 24 : 17 , 26 : 10, 31 : 20, 31 : 21 , 32 : 2 , 47: 1 , 47 : 3 , 94 : 23, 98 : 11 , 98 : 13 , 108 : 10 , 111 : 5 , 111 : 6 , 136 : 3, 136 : 18 , 140 : 16 , 141 : 12 , 142 : 15 , 143: 25 , 145 : 1 , 147 : 23 , 147 : 25 , 148:4 , 159: 2 , 160 : 8, 161 : 11 , 161 : 12 , 163: 6 , 163: 8 , 189 : 1 , 214 : 17 , 225: 9 , 225 : 11 , 225: 13 , 226 : 7, 226 : 12 **Joe** [ 1 ] - 155 : 7 **JOE** [3] - 5: 20 , 149 : 19 , 155: 1 **John** [3] - 10 : 17, 120 : 23 , 245: 14 **JOHN** [ 1 ] - 2 :4 **joined** [ 1 ] - 186 : 10 **joint** [1 ] - 101 : 18 **joys** [ 1 ] - 49 : 24 **JUAN** [ 1 ] - 1 : 5 **Juan** [ 130] - 1 : 17 , 7 : 13 , 10 : 5 , 10 :21 , 15: 1 , 15: 9 , 15 : 12 , 15: 18, 15 : 22 , 16 : 10 , 16 : 11 , 19 : 19, 19 : 22 , 20 :4 , 22 : 12 , 25: 6 , 25: 13, 29 : 10, 29 : 12 , 30 :4 , 30 : 9 , 30 : 16 , 33: 15, 35 : 2 , 40 : 8 , 61 :4 , 61 : 22 , 68: 1 , 70 : 11 , 71 : 15, 73 : 22 , 77: 23, 79 : 3 , 81 : 5 , 82 : 9 , 89: 8 , 89 : 11 , 89: 21 , 90 : 17, 92 : 8, 93: 6 , 94 : 2 , 94 : 5 , 96 : 12 , 96 : 19, 97 : 9, 97: 11 , 99 : 7 , 104 : 22 , 105 : 8, 107 : 5, 107 : 15 , 107 : 16 , 108: 1 , 108: 9 , 108 : 20 , 109: 7 , 117 : 11 , 117: 23 , 127 : 5, 129 : 19 , 129 : 23 , 132 : 9 , 133: 2 , 133 : 13 , 133: 17 , 133 : 22 , 134 : 22 , 135 :4, 136 : 1 , 137 : 7 , 137 : 11 , 140 :4 , 140 : 20 , 140 : 22 , 140 : 23 , 141 : 24 , 142 : 5, 142 : 6, 142 : 13 , 142 : 14 , 142 : 16 , 142 : 21 , 142 : 24 , 143 : 1 , 144 : 20 , 145 : 20 , 146 : 17 , 146 : 20 , 150 : 9 , 150 : 12 , 151 : 1 , 156 : 1 , 156 : 18 , 158: 14 , 159 : 15 , 164 : 10 , 165 : 14 , 166 : 22 , 169 : 11 , 175: 8 , 181 :4 , 183 : 15 , 186: 24 , 197 : 8, 197 : 9, 197 : 11 , 197 : 20 , 199: 5 , 200 : 16 , 203: 21 , 204 : 18 , 205: 7 , 205 : 22 , 210 : 6 , 210 : 10 , 215: 2 , 217 : 10 , 218: 1 , 219 : 25 , 225: 17 , 225 : 18 , 225: 21 , 225 : 23 , 225: 25 , 226 : 20 , 226: 25 , 228 : 8, 228 : 18 , 239: 15 **judges** [ 1 ] - 127 : 16 **July** [2] - 20 : 18 , 239 : 16 **jump** [1 ] - 240 : 1 **juncture** [1 ] - 139 : 7 **June** [4] - 19: 16, 172 : 16 , 231 : 3 , 234 : 21 **jurisdiction** [13] - 61 : 12 , 61 : 14, 61 : 16 , 61 : 24, 62 : 12 , 62 : 18 , 154 : 9, 221 : 5, 234 :24 , 235 : 8, 235 : 9, 235 : 12 **jurisdictional** [2] - 221 : 15 , 237: 5 **Justice** [5] - 44 :20 , 44 : 22 , 44 : 23, 58 : 15 , 222 : 11 **justifications** [2] - 18: 11 , 50 : 11 **justified** [2] - 22 : 15 , 59: 5 

## K

**K '** **aan** [2] - 107 :4, 109 :4 **KALLIE** [ 1 ] - 2 : 18 **Kallie** [ 1 ] - 13 :24 **kallie .**  **kuehl @**  **pnmresources .** **com** [ 1 ] - 2 : 22 **Kathy** [ 1 ] - 11 : 21 **keep** [ 14] - 16 : 14 , 54 : 15, 57 : 20, 92 : 5, 113 : 25 , 147: 24 , 148 : 17 , 149: 12 , 173 : 20 , 209: 22 , 226 : 16 , 229: 25 , 238 : 10 , 245: 1 **keeping** [3] - 90 : 11 , 152 : 12 , 200 : 8 **keeps** [ 1 ] - 189:4 **Kentucky** [ 1 ] - 67: 20 **key** [5] - 19 : 13 , 48: 11 , 73 : 18, 141 : 5 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 19

155 : 18 **kid** [2] - 138 : 13, 162 :4 **kids** [3] - 94 : 1 , 94 :4 , 138 : 13 **killed** [1 ] - 228: 2 **Kim** [13] - 8:4 , 8 : 5, 13: 14, 33 : 3 , 81 : 18, 81 : 20, 110 : 14 , 124 : 24 , 127: 6 , 127 : 11 , 233: 20 , 242 : 14 **KIM** [16] - 4 : 12 , 5 : 5 , 17: 13, 81 : 13, 110 :2 , 110 : 18 , 110 : 24 , 115 : 3, 115 : 13 , 116 : 17 , 117: 1 , 118: 5 , 118 : 12 , 125: 3 , 125 : 18 , 125: 20 **kind** [31 ] - 16 : 14 , 28: 20, 40 : 7 , 43:4 , 49: 13, 57 : 15, 64 : 10 , 64 : 17, 65 : 12 , 68 : 17 , 87: 14, 113 : 15 , 114 : 23 , 120 : 3 , 121 :4 , 121 : 23 , 122 : 7 , 126 : 22 , 127: 10 , 127 : 13 , 135: 22 , 164 : 15 , 189: 12 , 203 : 7, 204 : 5, 211 : 8 , 214 : 17 , 216: 22 , 234 : 7, 235 : 8, 246 : 3 **kindly** [1 ] - 153 : 7 **kinds** [ 1 ] - 48 : 25 **Kirtland** [2] - 140 : 5 , 224 : 25 **knowledge** [ 1 ] - 157 : 1 **known** [5] - 19 : 23 , 129 : 16 , 129: 17 , 129 : 23 , 141 : 10 **Kuehl** [ 1 ] - 13: 24 **KUEHL** [ 1 ] - 2 : 18 **KUEHN** [ 18] - 4 : 8, 5 :4 , 17 : 13 , 67 :4 , 110 : 2 , 117 : 16 , 118 : 25 , 119: 5 , 119: 8 , 119 : 13 , 119: 18 , 120 : 6, 120 : 21 , 124 : 11 , 124 : 14 , 124 : 19 , 130 : 22 , 131 : 3 **Kuehn** [9] - 7 :24 , 7 :25 , 13: 14 , 33: 11 , 67: 3 , 67: 9 , 67 : 11 , 130 : 19 , 232 : 7 **KYLE** [4] - 6 :4 , 167 : 8, 167 : 12 , 167: 19 **Kyle** [4] - 8: 21 , 14 : 5 , 167 : 11 , 167: 19

## L

**L -** **U -** **C -** **A -** **S** [1 ] - 167 : 20 **labeled** [ 1 ] - 25:4 **labor** [4] - 181 : 19, 190 : 6, 191 : 8 **lack** [2] - 244 : 11 , 244 : 14 **ladder** [ 1 ] - 40 : 7 **ladies** [1 ] - 140 : 1 **laid** [3] - 78: 8 , 135 : 13 , 135: 23 **land** [2] - 91 : 20, 107 : 9 **Land** [5] - 7 : 18 , 75: 21 , 96 : 15, 96 : 18 , 96 : 20 **language** [ 15] - 48 : 7, 50 : 13, 50 : 19, 50 : 21 , 51 : 24, 58 : 14, 62 : 10 , 62 : 22 , 119 : 22 , 122 : 17 , 221 : 3 , 222 : 9 , 222 : 20 , 235: 13 **large** [4] - 91 : 11 , 181 : 6, 187 : 22 , 215: 2 **large -** **scale** [ 1 ] - 91 : 11 **larger** [3] - 101 : 8 , 181 : 6, 181 : 8 **largest** [4] - 40 : 14, 152 : 9, 152 : 14 , 225: 23 **last** [25] - 14 : 21 , 49: 7 , 85: 22 , 100 : 17 , 111 : 2 , 118 : 7, 143 :20 , 144 : 18 , 153: 21 , 159 : 23 , 163: 16 , 168 : 16 , 170 : 19 , 174 : 15 , 176 : 23 , 181 : 10 , 184 : 13 , 196 : 14 , 201 : 9 , 203 : 10 , 203: 16 , 209 : 6, 212 : 19 , 224 : 9 **lastly** [2] - 197: 14, 233 : 19 **late** [9] - 22 : 8 , 22 : 14 , 22 : 16, 27 : 15, 38 : 15 , 59: 6 , 64 : 5 , 157: 23 **lately** [1 ] - 163: 13 **Law** [ 1 ] - 2 : 15 **law** [7] - 22 : 16, 30 : 11 , 52 : 20, 57 : 23 , 58: 11 , 58 : 12 , 230 : 10 **laws** [2] - 101 : 1 , 127 : 14 **lawsuit** [10] - 21 : 22 , 21 : 25, 38 : 22 , 39 : 11 , 39: 19, 40 : 21 , 42 : 19 , 43: 3 , 219 : 23, 244 :22 **lawsuits** [ 1 ] - 30 : 3 **lawyers** [3] - 160 : 2 , 160 : 3, 187 : 24 **lay** [4] - 56 :4, 108 : 11 , 137 : 8, 142 : 16 **layers** [ 1 ] - 180 : 23 **layoff** [ 1 ] - 135 : 19 **layoffs** [6] - 26 :6 , 31 : 12 , 31 : 16, 31 : 18 , 31 : 20, 151 : 13 **lays** [ 1 ] - 183: 3 **lead** [3] - 175 : 17 , 179 : 15 , 237: 17 **leader** [2] - 35: 20, 171 : 11 **leaders** [8] - 24 : 2 , 25: 12 , 34 : 22 , 35 : 6, 35: 20, 36 : 8 , 39: 2 , 39: 23 **leadership** [8] - 21 : 12 , 23 : 15, 35 : 17 , 35: 18, 36 : 12 , 36 : 14 , 145 : 9, 244 : 20 **leading** [2] - 37 : 11 , 151 : 2 **leads** [2] - 54 :4, 211 :4 **least** [ 14] - 31 :23 , 65: 1 , 66 : 19 , 99: 24, 101 : 13 , 101 : 19 , 103 : 17 , 105: 6 , 105 : 21 , 106 : 17 , 113 : 24 , 141 : 7 , 192 : 23 , 232 : 17 **leave** [6] - 12 : 12 , 12 : 15, 65 : 12 , 66 : 18 , 122 : 7, 159 : 21 **leaves** [2] - 58: 20 , 244 : 9 **led** [1 ] - 141 : 20 **left** [3] - 92 : 10 , 153 : 24 , 228: 1 **legal** [ 13] - 56 : 14, 58: 10, 59 : 9 , 62 : 19, 63: 22 , 63 : 25, 89 : 24 , 187 : 13 , 188: 10 , 210 : 18 , 232 : 5 , 234 : 7 , 245 : 8 **legally** [4] - 52 : 24 , 53: 15, 59 : 5 **legislative** [1 ] - 228 : 17 **legislature** [ 1 ] - 148 : 8 **length** [ 1 ] - 33: 22 **lengthy** [1 ] - 11 : 8 **less** [23] - 19: 25 , 34 : 1 , 38: 18 , 75: 13, 85: 2 , 86 : 9 , 99 : 3 , 99: 10, 112 : 1 , 119 : 18 , 136 : 16 , 136 : 18 , 142 : 10 , 146 : 18 , 147 : 1 , 177 : 24 , 178 : 24 , 179: 2 , 220 : 11 , 233: 14 , 233 : 15 , 233: 23 **lessen** [3] - 135 : 11 , 145 : 6, 145 : 8 **lessens** [ 1 ] - 212 : 5 **lesser** [2] - 210 :20 , 213 : 23 **lesson** [1 ] - 153: 10 **letter** [2] - 50 : 5, 159 : 24 **letting** [ 1 ] - 131 : 12 **level** [8] - 29 : 24 , 41 : 24, 79 : 9 , 101 : 14 , 112 : 25 , 127: 21 , 180 : 25 , 191 : 15 **levels** [1 ] - 218: 19 **Lewis** [1 ] - 94 : 5 **License** [ 1 ] - 250 : 20 **license** [ 1 ] - 172 : 13 **licensing** [ 1 ] - 168 : 7 **lies** [ 1 ] - 104 :25 **life** [7] - 73: 3 , 73 :4 , 159 : 22 , 220 : 20 , 220 : 22 , 232 : 22 , 241 : 18 **lifetime** [ 1 ] - 73 : 5 **lift** [ 1 ] - 98 : 14 **light** [3] - 161 : 20, 161 : 21 , 245: 3 **likely** [ 1 ] - 91 : 20 **likewise** [1 ] - 165: 25 **limestone** [3] - 74 :4 , 199 : 14 , 233: 13 **limit** [21 ] - 11 : 16 , 19: 21 , 69 : 2 , 111 : 14 , 111 : 16 , 112 : 12 , 112 : 21 , 114 : 11 , 119 : 1 , 124 : 10 , 124 : 17 , 198: 21 , 199 : 3, 199 :4, 199 :6 , 199 : 8, 199 : 9, 199 : 17 , 199 : 18 , 217: 15 **limited** [4] - 13 : 3, 22 : 14, 79 :4 , 241 : 24 **limits** [4] - 121 : 8 , 122 : 6, 124 : 3, 177 : 3 **line** [24] - 34 :4 , 82 : 25, 83 : 3 , 128 : 21 , 129 : 3, 154 : 1 , 169 :24 , 170 : 1 , 170 : 3, 170 : 7 , 170 : 9, 170 : 19 , 184 : 15 , 191 : 7 , 201 : 2 , 201 :4, 204 : 5, 204 : 8 , 204 : 14 , 209: 1 , 209: 3 , 211 : 9, 213 : 25 , 220 : 5 **lines** [9] - 62 : 22 , 103 : 13 , 170 : 1 , 200 : 25 , 204 :4 , 214 : 12 , 221 : 25 , 247 : 20 **lining** [ 1 ] - 184 : 9 **Lisa** [ 1 ] - 228 : 23 **list** [1 ] - 65: 23 **listed** [2] - 178 : 13 , 201 : 22 **listen** [4] - 155 : 16 , 155 : 17 , 157: 1 , 228: 15 **listened** [2] - 156 : 24, 211 : 9 **listening** [6] - 138 : 7, 140 : 18 , 155: 9 , 156 : 12 , 158: 25 , 162 : 12 **litigation** [8] - 15 :25 , 23: 13, 30 : 3 , 45: 3 , 53: 6 , 240 : 17, 240 :20 , 240 : 21 **litigations** [2] - 159 : 23 , 161 : 18 **live** [7] - 93: 9 , 103 : 10 , 143: 24 , 147 : 14 , 148: 7 , 157 : 25 , 188: 1 **livelihood** [ 1 ] - 225 : 12 **lives** [3] - 107 : 11 , 153 : 22 , 161 : 2 **living** [5] - 34 :4, 93: 19, 107 : 10 , 144 :4 , 225 : 1 **Liz** [3] - 13 : 14, 33 : 11 , 67: 2 **load** [ 1 ] - 207 : 18 **loaded** [ 1 ] - 210 : 13 **loan** [ 1 ] - 148 : 3 **lobby ing**  [2] - 146 : 10 , 148: 10 **lobby ists**  [2] - 148 : 7 , 148 : 11 **local** [22] - 24 : 1 , 24 : 5 , 25: 11 , 34 : 16, 34 : 22 , 34 : 24, 46 : 23 , 93: 8 , 94 : 22 , 95: 12 , 108 : 10 , 136: 19 , 140 : 10 , 141 : 22 , 142 : 12 , 142 : 15 , 143 : 2 , 143 : 22 , 145: 8 , 151 : 6, 153 : 14 , 225: 6 **Local** [ 1 ] - 94 : 8 **locally** [3] - 153 : 12 , 160 :4, 225 : 6 **located** [5] - 107: 14, 127 : 8, 127 : 9, 140 : 5 , 143 : 17 **location** [2] - 70 :4 , 180 : 24 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 20

**locations** [ 1 ] - 154 : 19 **logistical** [ 1 ] - 66 : 21 **long -** **term** [11 ] - 25: 21 , 29 : 11 , 29 : 21 , 80 : 11 , 80 : 12 , 80 : 14 , 98: 11 , 99 :4 , 114 : 12 , 206 : 11 , 213: 9 **longer -** **range** [ 1 ] - 106 : 1 **longevity** [2] - 94 : 16, 94 : 17 **longstanding** [ 1 ] - 144 : 1 **look** [ 13] - 49 :4, 50 : 2 , 63: 9 , 64 : 10 , 97:4 , 97: 6 , 111 : 22 , 115 : 5 , 154 : 17 , 160 : 17 , 182 : 1 , 189 : 21 , 198: 2 **looked** [ 11 ] - 30 : 20, 126 : 22 , 153: 17 , 176 : 7, 176 : 17 , 178: 1 , 178 : 2 , 178 : 16 , 181 : 23 , 191 : 11 , 205 : 13 **looking** [ 11 ] - 52 : 6 , 87: 1 , 97: 19 , 103 : 2 , 117 : 22 , 117: 24 , 127 :4, 127 : 25 , 153: 5 , 218 : 22 , 244 : 13 **looks** [8] - 50 : 25 , 101 : 18 , 101 : 25 , 109 : 22 , 149: 14 , 161 : 6, 204 : 1 , 211 : 11 **loose** [ 1 ] - 53 : 7 **lose** [3] - 90 : 9 , 134 : 9, 192 : 7 **loses** [ 1 ] - 165: 1 **losing** [2] - 31 : 24 , 90 : 15 **loss** [ 18] - 98 : 13 , 98: 16, 105 : 8, 105 : 10 , 129 : 12 , 133: 1 , 133 : 11 , 134 :4 , 134 : 16 , 134 : 23 , 135 : 3, 135 : 5, 136 : 8 , 137 : 6, 137 : 22 , 137 : 24 , 138: 6 , 192 : 11 **losses** [1 ] - 145 : 6 **lost** [9] - 47 :4 , 90 : 18 , 91 : 14, 91 : 17, 92 : 3, 92 : 8 , 111 : 5 , 147 : 25 , 216 : 23 **Louisiana** [ 1 ] - 77 : 18 **love** [ 1 ] - 227 : 22 **loved** [2] - 110 : 16 , 191 : 3 **low** [ 1 ] - 189 : 13 **lower** [ 13] - 68 : 24 , 69: 1 , 79: 9 , 79 : 16 ,80 : 17, 90 : 20, 111 : 14 ,

113 : 8, 116 : 11 , 122 : 6 , 124 : 2 , 183 : 21 , 199: 6 **Lucas** [ 10] - 8 :21 , 14 : 6 , 167 : 11 , 167 : 17 , 167 : 19 , 171 : 21 , 172 : 14 , 172 : 18 , 175 :4, 183 : 23 **LUCAS** [ 15] - 6 :4 , 167 : 8, 167 : 12 , 167 : 19 , 167: 23 , 168 : 3, 168 : 11 , 168 : 15 , 169: 17 , 169 : 20 , 169: 23 , 171 : 1 , 175 : 6, 179 : 14 , 192 : 23 **Luck** [2] - 150 : 6, 150 : 9 **LUCK** [4] - 5 : 16, 149 : 19 , 150 : 1 , 150 : 6 **luck** [ 1 ] - 100 : 16 **lunch** [8] - 66 : 11 , 66 : 20, 87 : 5 , 87: 17, 87: 19, 100 : 17 , 103 : 23 , 109: 10 **Lundy** [9] - 9:4 , 14 :4 , 173 : 10 , 175: 20 , 179 : 17 , 179: 25 , 182 : 25 , 189: 25 , 197 : 25 

## M

**machine** [ 1 ] - 250 : 10 **Madam** [ 19] - 13: 9 , 51 : 11 , 54 : 19, 56 : 7, 57: 7 , 66 : 25 , 88: 20, 111 : 19 , 121 : 10 , 130 : 22 , 131 : 7 , 132 : 2 , 143 : 13 , 146 : 6 , 151 : 25 , 162 : 24 , 193 : 13 , 229: 23 **mail** [2] - 12 : 18 **main** [3] - 73: 15, 92 : 6 , 152 : 12 **Main** [ 1 ] - 209 : 7 **maintain** [1 ] - 212 : 3 **maintaining** [2] - 132 : 13 , 137: 20 **maintenance** [6] - 94 : 10, 94 : 11 , 96 : 25 , 133 : 21 , 225: 14 , 226 : 1 **major** [5] - 125: 3 , 133 : 13 , 133: 22 , 180 : 14 , 225: 18 **maker** [ 1 ] - 62 : 7 **makers** [ 1 ] - 48 : 11 **management** [3] - 161 : 23 , 161 : 24 , 168 : 5 **Management** [5] - 7 : 18 , 75: 22 , 96 : 15, 96 : 18, 96 : 21 **manager** [ 10] - 67: 13, 77 : 10, 80 : 23 , 96 : 25, 156 : 2 , 156 : 8 , 156 : 9, 167 : 24 , 169: 3 , 179 : 22 **manager '** **s** [1 ] - 169 : 6 **mandate** [3] - 37 : 12 , 37: 18, 98 : 6 **mandated** [1 ] - 29 : 16 **mandates** [4] - 100 : 25 , 101 :4 , 244 : 8 , 244 : 18 **manner** [3] - 230 : 1 , 235 : 16 , 237: 19 **manual** [ 1 ] - 190 : 20 **Manual** [6] - 174 : 16, 174 : 17 , 180 : 12 , 181 : 23 , 189: 17 , 189 : 19 **manuals** [ 1 ] - 189 : 8 **March** [ 1 ] - 112 : 3 **marked** [ 10] - 67 :22 , 68: 10, 68 : 14, 69 : 7, 75: 24, 76 : 2 , 76 : 14, 82 : 5 , 82 : 18 , 83: 8 **marketing** [2] - 195 : 16 , 207: 19 **Marquette** [ 1 ] - 2 : 15 **Martinez** [12] - 18 : 23 , 21 : 7 , 21 : 23 , 22 : 22 , 31 : 10, 32 : 10, 35 : 25 , 39: 12 , 39 : 15, 42 : 18 , 43: 1 , 136 : 7 **Martinez '**  [ 1 ] - 18: 12 **master** [1 ] - 82 : 2 **master '** **s** [ 1 ] - 173 :25 **material** [ 1 ] - 74 : 3 **materials** [2] - 130 : 21 , 233: 12 **math** [1 ] - 77 : 15 **MATTER** [ 1 ] - 1 :4 **matter** [20] - 1 : 15 , 10 : 19, 11 : 15, 15 : 12 , 16 : 9 , 16 : 10 , 61 : 22 , 72 : 23, 75 : 1 , 128 : 17 , 135 : 1 , 147 : 2 , 147 : 3 , 169 : 16 , 171 : 22 , 174 : 7, 211 : 17 , 223 : 12 , 237: 14 , 240 : 3 **matters** [3] - 11 : 15 , 125 : 14 , 168: 14 **MATTHEW** [ 1 ] - 2 : 5 **Maximum** [ 1 ] - 170 : 15 **mayor** [ 1 ] - 156 : 16 **Mayor** [ 1 ] - 157 : 7 **McCarthy** [ 1 ] - 48 : 1 **McGill** [ 1 ] - 174 : 2 **mean** [ 11 ] - 21 :6 , 46 : 3 , 55: 12 , 114 : 25 , 116 : 1 , 124 : 17 , 129: 3 , 152 : 20 , 153: 21 , 191 : 19 , 220 : 20 **meaning** [1 ] - 148:4 **meaningful** [ 1 ] - 215 : 8 **means** [9] - 46 : 11 , 115 : 16 , 116 : 2 , 116 : 3 , 116 : 10 , 116 : 11 , 147 : 20 , 165: 21 , 226 :4 **measurably** [ 1 ] - 80 : 5 **measures** [1 ] - 116: 9 **measuring** [1 ] - 115 : 19 **mechanic** [ 1 ] - 226 : 1 **mechanical** [3] - 77: 17, 172 : 7, 195 :21 **mechanisms** [1 ] - 200 : 20 **media** [ 1 ] - 238 : 7 **mediation** [ 1 ] - 64 : 7 **medical** [ 1 ] - 97: 8 **meet** [ 14] - 51 : 25 , 58: 6 , 58: 16 , 58: 21 , 90 : 21 , 97 : 14, 98 : 6, 105 : 15 , 164 : 6 , 220 : 14 , 232 : 18 , 242 : 10 , 249:4 **meeting** [7] - 24 : 13 , 24 : 19, 91 : 2 , 137 : 18 , 145 : 3, 145 : 6, 238 : 15 **meetings** [5] - 24 : 8 , 24 : 11 , 24 : 12 , 24 : 14 , 33: 23 **meets** [5] - 98 : 8, 165 : 11 , 190 : 22 , 210 : 18 , 213: 3 **megawatt** [2] - 91 : 16, 137 : 3 **megawatts** [9] - 90 : 16, 91 : 8 , 91 : 14, 91 : 17, 92 : 3 , 98: 25, 146 : 23 , 216 : 23 , 217 : 19 **Member** [ 16] - 36 :23 , 37:4 , 37: 17 , 38: 1 , 38: 9 , 38: 24 , 41 : 6 , 47: 14, 49 : 12 , 49 : 13 , 51 :4 , 53:4 , 56 :2 , 111 : 8, 114 : 7, 126 : 15 **member** [7] - 40 : 25, 78: 3 , 93: 5 , 93 : 8 , 146 : 8, 173 : 2 , 188 : 15 **members** [54] - 12 : 6 , 12 : 18, 12 : 20, 12 : 22 , 12 : 24, 13 : 9 , 13: 22 , 14 : 9 , 14 : 18 , 18: 5 , 21 : 8 , 51 : 12 , 60 : 17, 63: 3 , 66 : 25 , 88: 21 , 93:4 , 94 : 12 , 94 : 21 , 96 : 1 , 96 :4 , 98 :2 , 104 : 17 , 104 : 25 , 107 : 15 , 108: 13 , 108 : 21 , 110 : 10 , 111 : 20 , 118: 16 , 130 : 12 , 130 : 24 , 131 : 7, 132 : 3, 140 :6 , 142 : 18 , 143: 18 , 144 : 3, 144 : 9, 146 :6 , 152 : 1 , 152 : 8, 162 :24 , 163 :4, 163 : 7, 194 : 11 , 199 : 23 , 206: 17 , 212 : 11 , 225: 20 , 228 : 1 , 229 : 23 , 231 : 25 **membership** [ 1 ] - 152 : 5 **memo** [3] - 119 : 20 , 119 : 23 , 120 :4 **memorandum** [1 ] - 204 : 11 **memorialized** [2] - 56 : 11 , 56 : 15 **mention** [2] - 230 :6 , 236 : 16 **mentioned** [21 ] - 18: 10, 20 : 5 , 26 : 19, 27: 14, 29 : 7 , 33: 20, 38: 20, 56 : 6 , 61 : 2 , 74 : 25, 75 : 5 , 80 : 22 , 83: 9 , 99: 17 , 119 : 3, 165 : 17 , 179: 15 , 180 : 6, 184 : 14 , 205 : 15 , 213: 15 **mentions** [1 ] - 201 :4 **mercury** [3] - 33: 13, 74 : 23, 211 : 19 **mere** [ 1 ] - 89 : 12 **merely** [3] - 45 :4, 124 : 5, 243 : 12 **merits** [2] - 57 :23 , 58: 12 **Mesa** [8] - 92 : 5, 92 : 7, 116 : 16 , 116: 17 , 116 : 22 , 117: 6 , 118: 5 , 126 : 8 **mess** [2] - 159 :21 , 162 : 5 **met** [5] - 46 : 1 , 50 : 12 , 89: 14, 187 : 3, 240 : 10 **metal** [ 1 ] - 74 : 23 **meteorological** [3] - 83: 21 , 84 : 23, 84 : 24 **method** [2] - 84 : 6 , 113 : 14 **methodology** [4] - 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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- 3606 

# 21

84 : 3 , 176 : 18, 177 : 3 , 192 : 14 **methods** [ 1 ] - 242 : 7 **Mexicans** [2] - 25 : 17 , 34 :4 **MEXICO** [2] - 1 : 1 , 250 : 1 **Mexico** [ 124] - 1 : 16 , 1 : 18 , 2 : 7, 2 : 9 , 2 : 11 , 2 : 13 , 2 : 16 , 2 : 19 , 2 : 21 , 3 :2 , 3 :4 , 7 : 11 , 7 : 12 , 8 : 12 , 8 : 17 , 8 : 23 , 9: 7 , 12 : 11 , 12 : 16, 13 : 11 , 13: 24, 14 : 8 , 14 : 11 , 14 : 24, 15 : 22 , 16 : 1 , 16 : 12 , 18 : 12 , 21 : 7, 21 : 24, 23 : 1 , 23: 9 , 24 : 1 , 25: 16 , 26 : 21 , 34 : 3 , 34 : 10 , 34 : 13, 34 : 14, 35 : 6 , 37: 16, 39: 8 , 39: 15 , 39: 25, 40 : 6 , 40 : 12 , 40 : 13, 40 : 14, 40 : 17, 42 : 18 , 47: 18, 61 : 23, 68 : 8, 78: 5 , 78: 6 , 91 :6 , 91 : 15, 91 : 18, 95 : 25 , 96 : 3 , 96 : 6 , 97 :6 , 97: 17, 98 : 1 , 98: 19, 98: 21 , 99 : 22 , 100 : 1 , 100 : 21 , 104 : 14 , 104 : 17 , 104 : 19 , 113 : 19 , 116: 15 , 116 : 21 , 116: 24 , 117 : 6, 117 : 10 , 126: 7 , 127 : 15 , 130 :4 , 132 : 16 , 132 : 25 , 136 : 5, 137 : 13 , 140 : 6 , 140 : 23 , 147: 10 , 152 : 3, 152 : 7, 153 : 1 , 153 : 20 , 154 : 8 , 158: 2 , 158 : 24 , 159: 2 , 160 : 8 , 161 : 7, 162 : 21 , 163: 1 , 163 : 20 , 164 : 8 , 165 : 21 , 166: 14 , 181 : 20 , 204 : 21 , 208 : 6, 208 : 13 , 210 : 1 , 210 :4, 210 : 15 , 215 : 25 , 216: 8 , 217: 6 , 222 : 21 , 225: 5 , 227 : 21 , 231 : 13 , 239 : 14 , 241 : 22 , 244 : 6, 244 : 9, 244 : 12 , 245 : 1 **Mexico '** **s** [3] - 12 : 9, 126 : 17 , 134 : 16 **MI CHAEL**  [1 ] - 2 :4 **microphone** [2] - 194 : 22 , 202 : 14 **middle** [3] - 132 : 19 , 132 : 21 , 154 : 11**might** [13] - 45 : 15 ,

64 : 22 , 93 : 12 , 157 :20 , 179 : 11 , 193: 17 , 200 : 18 , 200 : 19 , 217 : 3, 218 : 9, 219 : 11 , 229 : 2 , 247 : 15 **mildly** [1 ] - 64 : 10 **miles** [ 1 ] - 116 : 18 **MI LLER**  [ 1 ] - 2 : 14 **million** [56] - 29 : 17, 32 : 5 , 69: 3 , 79 : 5 , 80 : 17, 80 : 18, 84 : 23 , 89: 13, 90 : 5 , 90 : 25, 99: 13, 108 : 13 , 111 : 13 , 112 : 1 , 113:4 , 113 : 21 , 135: 8 , 135 : 17 , 135: 25 , 138 : 12 , 142 : 19 , 145 : 13 , 148: 5 , 151 : 2 , 151 : 15 , 159: 13 , 161 : 19 , 180 : 20 , 180 : 21 , 182 :4 , 182 : 5 , 182 : 7, 182 : 8, 182 : 12 , 182 : 13 , 184 :4 , 184 : 5 , 189 : 12 , 198: 7 , 198 : 13 , 199: 5 , 199: 7 , 201 : 2 , 201 :4, 201 : 5 , 201 : 14 , 210 : 12 , 210 : 13 , 233: 5 , 233: 6 , 233 : 7 **millions** [ 1 ] - 161 : 17 **mind** [7] - 36 : 25, 80 : 25, 92 : 5 , 103 : 17 , 144 : 9, 148 : 17 , 153: 7 **mindful** [ 1 ] - 53 : 14 **mine** [7] - 93: 15, 94 : 17, 132 : 20 , 133 : 17 , 133: 24 , 134 : 24 , 181 :4 **Mi ne**  [4] - 96 : 20 , 96 : 23, 225 : 18 , 225: 21 **mines** [3] - 94 : 12 , 97: 7 , 144 : 2 **minimal** [1 ] - 99: 18 **minimize** [2] - 79 : 20 , 108 : 15 **minimizes** [3] - 99: 8 , 99: 16, 212 : 5 **mining** [2] - 96 : 14 , 111 : 7 **Mi nnesota**  [3] - 195 : 22 , 195: 23 , 208 : 7 **minus** [ 1 ] - 170 : 13 **minute** [2] - 147 : 12 , 147 : 22 **minutes** [2] - 13 : 3, 149 : 2 **missed** [6] - 45 :23 , 57:4 , 57: 8 , 58 : 1 , 166 : 14 , 166 : 15 **missing** [3] - 45: 14 , 45: 16, 57 : 19 **mission** [1 ] - 105 :4 **Mi ssouri**  [ 1 ] - 172 : 13 **mistake** [2] - 123 : 21 , 123 : 25 **misunderstood** [ 1 ] - 121 : 3 **mitigate** [ 1 ] - 203:4 **mitigates** [2] - 109 : 1 , 164 : 7 **mitigating** [1 ] - 133 : 11 **mitigation** [1 ] - 142 : 12 **mix** [ 1 ] - 154 : 16 **mixed** [ 1 ] - 133 :4 **mixes** [ 1 ] - 154 : 12 **model** [ 10] - 83 : 19 , 115 : 17 , 115: 20 , 115 : 22 , 115: 24 , 125 : 6, 125 : 11 , 127: 2 , 178 : 20 **modeled** [2] - 84 :22 , 84 : 24 **modeling** [43] - 69: 24, 81 : 22 , 81 : 24 , 82 : 11 , 82 : 14, 82 : 25 , 83: 16, 83 : 18, 83 : 20 , 83: 22 , 83 : 25, 84 : 15 , 85: 7 , 98: 6 , 102 : 1 , 115 : 18 , 116 : 2 , 120 : 14 , 120 : 16 , 120 : 18 , 125: 13 , 125 : 23 , 126 : 23 , 127 : 3, 127 : 6, 127 : 7 , 127 : 11 , 168: 8 , 169: 1 , 173 : 17 , 175: 9 , 175 : 14 , 176 : 13 , 176 : 14 , 176 : 20 , 177 : 6, 177 : 8, 177 : 14 , 178 : 9 **models** [3] - 125: 6 , 125 : 8, 125 : 9 **modification** [4] - 112 : 3, 112 : 6, 198 :22 , 237 :4 **modifications** [2] - 89: 21 , 124 : 12 **modified** [2] - 124 : 2 , 176 : 24 **modify** [ 1 ] - 164 :20 **modifying** [ 1 ] - 91 : 1 **moment** [2] - 15 :4 , 109 : 23 **money** [6] - 37 :24 , 93: 20, 93 : 24, 94 : 6, 159 : 6, 244 : 17 **monitored** [2] - 111 : 14 , 112 : 25 **monitoring** [2] - 96 : 21 , 160 : 25 **monoxide** [ 1 ] - 211 : 17 **month** [2] - 48 :25 **month -** **by -** **month** [ 1 ]

- 48 : 25 **months** [7] - 24 : 23, 52 :4 , 113 : 20, 113 :22 , 123 : 11 , 164 : 3 , 200 : 14 **Montreal** [ 1 ] - 174 : 3 **morning** [18] - 10 : 16 , 18: 5 , 18: 8 , 19 : 3 , 28: 19, 47 : 17, 60 : 14 , 60 : 17, 77 : 6 , 81 : 18, 97: 11 , 97 : 19, 103 :24 , 104 : 11 , 138: 14 , 155 : 12 , 156 : 20 , 243 :4 **MORROW** [9] - 2 : 5, 115 : 9, 115 : 11 , 223 : 15 , 227: 18 , 246 : 10 , 246 : 13 , 246 : 16 , 246 : 24 **most** [24] - 19 : 7, 25: 3 , 29: 1 , 56 : 1 , 68: 17, 73 : 25, 89 : 17 , 96 : 25, 101 :4, 102 :2 , 102 : 9, 133 : 16 , 133 : 19 , 143: 19 , 148 : 6, 149 : 2 , 158 : 1 , 159 : 5, 159 : 6, 161 :2 , 172 : 10 , 176 : 3 , 176 : 6 **mostly** [2] - 133: 23, 184 : 12 **Mother** [1 ] - 103: 5 **motion** [ 11 ] - 12 : 12 , 12 : 13, 12 : 15, 45 : 9, 196 : 25 , 238: 18 , 239 : 3, 246 : 9, 246 : 19 , 246 : 21 , 248: 19 **motivated** [ 1 ] - 26 :25 **mouth** [1 ] - 181 :4 **move** [23] - 23 : 10 , 25: 17, 36 : 8 , 36 : 9 , 42 : 19, 42 : 25, 50 : 20 , 55: 1 , 55: 21 , 81 : 11 , 86 : 15, 135 : 14 , 171 : 2 , 174 : 23 , 196 : 22 , 209 : 15 , 226 : 18 , 230 : 7, 230 : 20 , 238 : 20 , 239: 8 , 246 : 10 , 248: 20 **moved** [3] - 43 : 1 , 50 : 22 , 208 : 8 **moving** [ 12] - 10 : 1 , 24 : 9 , 42 : 16 , 43: 5 , 43: 6 , 44 : 24 , 48: 14, 55: 13, 173 : 1 , 186 :25 , 199 : 8, 246 : 12 **MR** [448] - 10 : 8 , 10 : 11 , 10 : 13, 10 : 14 , 10 : 15, 13 : 8 , 13: 18, 13: 21 , 14 : 7 , 14 : 9 , 14 : 15, 14 : 17, 17 : 6, 17: 10, 17 : 11 , 17 : 15 , 17: 20, 17 : 22 , 18 : 5, 36 : 23, 36 : 24, 37 :4, 37: 6 , 37: 7 , 37 : 8 , 37: 10, 37 : 11 , 37 : 14 , 37: 15, 37 : 17, 37 : 23 , 38: 1 , 38: 7 , 38 : 9 , 38: 21 , 38 : 24, 40 : 5, 40 : 23, 40 : 24, 40 : 25 , 41 : 6 , 43: 25 , 44 : 22 , 45: 20, 46 : 2 , 47: 14, 49: 3 , 49: 8 , 49 : 11 , 49: 23, 50 : 16, 51 : 2 , 51 :4 , 51 : 7 , 51 : 8 , 54 : 19, 56 : 1 , 56 : 7 , 57: 1 , 57: 7 , 57 : 9 , 57: 10, 59 : 13, 59 : 17 , 59: 18, 59 : 20, 59 : 21 , 59: 25, 60 : 3 , 60 : 5 , 60 : 7 , 60 : 10 , 60 : 13, 63: 2 , 63: 7 , 63 : 8 , 63: 13, 63 : 16, 63 : 17 , 63: 18, 63 : 20, 65 : 16 , 65: 20, 66 :4 , 66 : 6 , 66 : 7 , 66 : 9 , 66 : 17 , 66 : 19, 66 : 24, 67 : 8, 70 : 6 , 70 : 8 , 70 : 9 , 76 : 24, 76 : 25, 77 : 5, 81 : 17, 86 : 19, 86 : 21 , 86 : 22 , 87 : 1 , 87: 8 , 87: 9 , 87: 12 , 87: 24, 87: 25, 88 : 5 , 88: 10, 88: 18, 92 : 20, 93 : 2 , 95: 16, 95 : 23, 100 : 5 , 100 : 12 , 103: 21 , 106 : 20 , 107: 2 , 109: 9 , 109 : 12 , 109: 17 , 109 : 22 , 110 : 5 , 110 : 18 , 110 : 22 , 110 : 24 , 110 : 25 , 111 :4, 111 : 8, 111 : 11 , 111 : 19 , 112 : 14 , 112 : 17 , 112 : 24 , 113 : 2 , 113 : 10 , 113 : 12 , 113: 17 , 114 : 7, 114 : 19 , 115: 2 , 115 : 3, 115 : 5, 115 :6 , 115 : 9, 115 : 10 , 115 : 11 , 115: 12 , 115 : 13 , 116: 13 , 116 : 17 , 116: 20 , 117 : 1 , 117 :4, 117 : 8 , 117 : 12 , 117: 13 , 117 : 17 , 118: 1 , 118: 5 , 118 : 9, 118 : 12 , 118 : 13 , 118: 14 , 118 : 18 , 119: 2 , 119: 6 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 22

119 : 9, 119 : 15 , 119 : 19 , 120 : 11 , 120 : 22 , 120 : 24 , 121 : 10 , 121 : 20 , 122 : 9, 122 : 25 , 123: 9 , 123 : 11 , 123: 12 , 123 : 14 , 123: 15 , 123 : 16 , 123: 18 , 123 : 19 , 123: 21 , 123 : 22 , 123: 24 , 124 : 1 , 124 : 13 , 124 : 16 , 124 : 20 , 125 : 3, 125 : 16 , 125 : 18 , 125: 19 , 125 : 20 , 125: 24 , 126 : 2 , 126 : 3, 126 :4 , 126 : 15 , 127: 13 , 128 : 1 , 128 :4, 128 : 5 , 128 : 6, 128 : 7, 128 : 9 , 128 : 10 , 128: 12 , 128 : 13 , 128: 15 , 128 : 16 , 128: 18 , 128 : 20 , 129: 1 , 129: 2 , 129 : 6, 129 : 14 , 129 : 17 , 129: 21 , 130 : 1 , 130 : 9, 130 : 11 , 130 : 16 , 130 : 17 , 130 : 18 , 131 : 2 , 131 :4 , 131 : 5, 131 : 11 , 131 : 15 , 131 : 16 , 131 : 25 , 138: 22 , 138 : 24 , 139: 3 , 139: 8 , 139 : 17 , 140 : 1 , 143:4 , 143 : 11 , 145: 22 , 148 : 24 , 149: 2 , 149: 3 , 149 : 8, 149 : 9, 151 :20 , 151 : 25 , 154 : 25 , 155 : 7, 157 : 8, 157 : 15 , 158 : 16 , 158: 23 , 162 : 10 , 162 : 12 , 162 : 13 , 162 : 19 , 162 : 23 , 167: 10 , 167 : 16 , 167: 17 , 167 : 19 , 167: 21 , 167 : 23 , 168: 1 , 168: 3 , 168 : 9, 168 : 11 , 168 : 12 , 168: 15 , 169 : 13 , 169: 17 , 169 : 18 , 169: 20 , 169 : 21 , 169: 23 , 170 : 22 , 171 : 1 , 171 : 2 , 171 : 8, 171 : 13 , 171 : 20 , 171 : 24 , 172 : 3, 172 : 14 , 172 : 17 , 172 : 22 , 173 : 1 , 173 : 5, 173 : 7 , 173 : 9, 173 : 12 , 173 : 14 , 173: 18 , 173 : 19 , 173: 21 , 173 : 24 , 174 : 6 , 174 : 9 , 174 : 10 , 174 : 12 ,174 : 14 , 174 : 15 ,

174 : 18 , 174 : 21 , 174 : 22 , 175: 1 , 175: 3 , 175 : 6, 179 : 9, 179 : 14 , 180 : 1 , 180 : 5, 182 :20 , 184 : 20 , 184 : 23 , 185 : 3, 185 : 7, 185 : 8 , 185 : 9, 185 : 10 , 185 : 15 , 185: 16 , 185 : 23 , 185: 24 , 185 : 25 , 187: 10 , 187 : 13 , 188: 13 , 188 : 14 , 188: 16 , 189 : 15 , 190 : 15 , 191 : 18 , 191 : 25 , 192 : 13 , 192 : 15 , 192 : 23 , 193: 6 , 193 : 13 , 193: 25 , 194 :4, 194 : 7, 194 : 8 , 194 : 9, 194 : 11 , 194 : 13 , 194 : 20 , 195 : 5, 196 : 22 , 196 : 25 , 197: 2 , 199 : 23 , 200 : 10 , 200 : 22 , 201 : 7 , 201 : 8 , 201 : 13 , 201 : 14 , 201 : 19 , 201 : 20 , 201 : 24 , 202 : 2 , 202 : 6 , 202 : 7, 202 : 8, 202 : 10 , 206 : 16 , 206 : 21 , 207 : 5, 209 : 14 , 209 : 16 , 209: 19 , 212 : 9, 212 : 11 , 212 : 14 , 212 : 15 , 212 : 16 , 212 : 18 , 213 : 2 , 213 : 5, 213 :6 , 213 : 11 , 213: 24 , 214 : 7, 214 : 9, 214 : 10 , 214 : 12 , 214 : 19 , 214 : 21 , 214 : 22 , 214 : 24 , 215: 10 , 215 : 12 , 215: 13 , 215 : 14 , 215: 16 , 219 : 18 , 219: 19 , 221 : 7, 222 : 7, 223 : 3 , 223 :4, 223 : 8, 223 : 13 , 223 : 15 , 223: 16 , 223 : 18 , 223: 22 , 223 : 23 , 223: 24 , 224 : 5, 224 : 17 , 227: 3 , 227 : 18 , 229: 18 , 229 : 22 , 230 : 21 , 230 : 24 , 236 : 8 , 236 : 15 , 236 : 18 , 236 : 21 , 236 : 22 , 236 : 23 , 236 : 24 , 238 :4, 238 : 7, 238 : 9 , 239 : 3, 239 : 25 , 242 : 16 , 244 : 3 , 244 : 5 , 245 : 7, 246 : 10 , 246 : 13 , 246 : 16 , 246 : 24 , 246 : 25 , 247 : 25 , 248: 7 , 249: 8 **MRS** [ 1 ] - 139 : 16 **MS** [81 ] - 10 : 1 , 41 :2 , 43: 23, 44 : 19, 45 : 13 , 45: 22 , 47 : 12 , 48 : 18 , 49: 7 , 49: 9 , 49 :22 , 50 : 15, 50 : 23, 51 : 3, 51 : 5 , 54 : 3 , 55 :24 , 87: 11 , 104 : 9, 109 : 11 , 109 : 13 , 110 : 13 , 110 : 19 , 110 : 23 , 115 : 8, 117 : 16 , 118 : 25 , 119: 5 , 119: 8 , 119 : 13 , 119: 18 , 120 : 6, 120 : 21 , 124 : 11 , 124 : 14 , 124 : 19 , 130 : 22 , 131 : 3, 146 : 5, 150 :6 , 171 : 6, 171 : 10 , 171 : 15 , 171 : 23 , 172 : 2 , 172 : 6, 172 : 16 , 172 : 21 , 172 : 25 , 182 : 23 , 190 : 14 , 190 : 16 , 192 : 11 , 192 : 14 , 193: 8 , 193 : 22 , 194 : 3 , 213: 8 , 227 : 10 , 227: 14 , 227 : 19 , 236 : 9 , 236 : 16 , 236 : 20 , 238 : 17 , 239:4 , 239: 7 , 240 : 12 , 244 : 1 , 244 :4 , 245 : 5, 246 : 7, 246 : 11 , 246 : 15 , 246 : 19 , 247 : 1 , 247 :4, 248 :4 , 248 : 16 , 249: 9 , 249: 12 **MS 0805**  [1 ] - 2 : 20 **multiple** [2] - 53 : 12 , 168 : 17 **multiple -** **part** [ 1 ] - 168 : 17 **multiply** [ 1 ] - 183 : 7 **must** [6] - 70 : 16 , 140 : 13 , 187: 22 , 200 : 6, 204 : 15 **mutton** [1 ] - 138: 19 

## N

**N -** **4050** [ 1 ] - 2 : 10 **Nagpur** [ 1 ] - 173: 25 **nail** [ 1 ] - 159 : 11 **name** [48] - 10 : 17 , 11 : 20, 13 : 10, 14 : 10 , 18: 21 , 67 : 9 , 77: 7 , 77: 8 , 81 : 19 , 81 : 20, 88: 17, 93 : 1 , 93: 2 , 95: 21 , 95 : 23, 100 : 10 , 100 : 12 , 104 : 8 , 104 : 9 , 107 : 1 , 107 : 3, 131 :24 , 132 : 5, 139 : 25 , 140 : 3 , 143 : 10 , 143: 11 , 143 : 15 , 146 : 7 , 150 : 5 , 152 : 2 , 155 : 5, 157 : 13 , 158 : 21 , 158: 23 , 167 : 18 , 171 :4 , 173: 3 , 173 : 5, 195 : 6, 195 : 8 , 207 : 7, 207 : 8, 224 : 16 , 224 : 17 , 224 : 20 , 227 : 9, 227 : 11 **narrow** [2] - 165 : 9 , 232 : 5 **nation** [3] - 136 : 9, 137 : 23 , 137: 24 **Nation** [27] - 23 : 25 , 26 : 8 , 32 : 6 , 34 :23 , 93: 21 , 102 : 14 , 131 : 8 , 131 : 18 , 132 : 6 , 132 : 15 , 133: 15 , 134 : 1 , 134 : 2 , 135 : 10 , 136 : 5, 137 : 16 , 139: 5 , 140 : 11 , 142 : 3 , 142 : 18 , 142 : 19 , 143 : 23 , 145: 12 , 186 : 24 , 225: 7 , 225: 9 , 231 : 25 **nation '** **s** [ 1 ] - 105: 5 **National** [ 11 ] - 7 :20 , 37: 23, 38 : 5 , 75: 21 , 116 : 22 , 119: 20 , 119 : 23 , 120 : 1 , 126 : 8 , 188 : 18 , 191 : 12 **national** [5] - 24 :4 , 28: 24, 29 : 23, 91 : 19 , 127 : 21 **nationally** [ 1 ] - 141 : 18 **Native** [3] - 133 : 16 , 133 : 19 , 225: 20 **natural** [29] - 26 : 9, 29: 22 , 30 : 7 , 32 :4 , 34 : 17, 84 : 20, 90 : 18 , 90 : 20, 95 : 8 , 98: 15, 98: 16, 98 : 20, 98 : 23 , 99: 1 , 99: 3 , 99 : 5 , 99: 18, 99 : 21 , 99 : 23 , 100 : 1 , 103 : 13 , 108: 9 , 137 : 3, 137 : 5, 142 : 14 , 146 : 21 , 151 : 9 , 203 : 20 , 225: 13 **naturally** [1 ] - 107: 8 **nature** [5] - 16 :24 , 52 : 13, 53 : 2 , 65: 10, 70 : 1 **Navajo** [54] - 23 :25 , 26 : 7 , 32 : 6 , 34 :23 , 93: 21 , 102 : 14 , 102 : 17 , 107: 11 , 108 : 13 , 108: 19 , 108 : 20 , 109: 2 , 131 : 8 , 131 : 18 , 132 : 6 , 132 : 15 , 132 : 20 , 133 : 14 , 133: 17 , 133 : 19 , 133: 23 , 133 : 25 , 134 : 2 , 134 : 5 , 134 : 16 , 135: 10 , 136 : 5, 137 : 16 , 137 : 25 , 138: 19 , 139 :4, 140 : 6, 140 : 9 , 140 : 10 , 140 : 14 , 142 : 1 , 142 : 3, 142 : 18 , 142 : 19 , 143: 18 , 143 : 22 , 143: 25 , 144 : 25 , 145: 12 , 145 : 14 , 186: 23 , 225 : 1 , 225 : 7, 225 : 9 , 225 : 19 , 225: 20 , 225 : 22 , 225: 24 , 231 : 24 **Navajos** [ 1 ] - 135: 25 **near** [3] - 107: 14 , 143 : 24 , 158: 8 **nearby** [ 1 ] - 142 : 1 **nearest** [ 1 ] - 116 : 17 **nearly** [2] - 89 : 20 , 190 : 10 **necessarily** [2] - 185 : 17 , 192 : 21 **necessary** [ 12] - 11 : 11 , 11 : 17, 65 :4, 112 : 7, 164 : 5, 186 :25 , 187 : 7, 222 : 10 , 226 : 17 , 228: 20 , 235 : 19 , 237: 11 **Necessity** [ 1 ] - 217: 5 **need** [ 19] - 19 : 14 , 41 : 19, 43 : 13, 51 : 14 , 53: 13, 66 : 18, 66 : 21 , 113 : 12 , 129: 10 , 136 : 12 , 145:4 , 147 : 13 , 150 : 22 , 156 : 14 , 158: 11 , 159 : 8, 160 : 8, 227 : 13 **needed** [4] - 13 : 1 , 124 : 22 , 136: 25 , 166 : 23 **needle** [1 ] - 127: 18 **needs** [8] - 51 : 25 , 52 : 21 , 87 : 18, 109 :23 , 136 : 12 , 165: 11 , 200 : 13 **negative** [3] - 85 :23 , 85: 25, 141 : 22 **negotiated** [2] - 64 : 20, 94 : 19 **negotiating** [4] - 49: 24, 51 : 15, 53 : 5, 53: 6 **negotiations** [9] - 46 : 5 , 52 :4 , 60 :24 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 23

63: 25, 78 :4 , 121 : 22 , 123 :4, 164 : 3, 164 :4 **neighbor** [2] - 126 : 21 , 140 : 20 **neighboring** [3] - 140 : 5, 143 : 20 , 224 : 25 **neighbors** [3] - 107 : 6, 161 : 5 **Nenahnezad** [4] - 143 : 16 , 143: 17 , 144 : 19 , 145: 18 **nervous** [ 1 ] - 55: 9 **Nevada** [ 1 ] - 170 : 20 **never** [4] - 53 : 7 , 91 : 2 , 148 : 17, 228 : 3 **NEW** [2] - 1 : 1 , 250 : 1 **new** [34] - 28 : 7 , 42 : 7, 42 : 9 , 45: 19 , 45: 25, 47: 25, 61 : 6 , 62 : 13, 71 : 17, 72 : 6 , 80 : 13, 91 : 21 , 99 : 7 , 99: 19, 99: 20, 101 : 5, 108 : 8 , 112 : 25 , 113: 8 , 114 : 15 , 119: 11 , 121 : 8, 122 : 5, 125 :22 , 135 : 14 , 137: 15 , 142 : 14 , 145: 15 , 146 : 21 , 155: 10 , 175 : 12 , 199: 18 , 216 : 9 **New** [ 132] - 1 : 16 , 1 : 18 , 2 : 7, 2 : 9 , 2 : 11 , 2 : 13 , 2 : 16 , 2 : 19 , 2 : 21 , 3 :2 , 3 :4 , 7 : 11 , 7 : 12 , 8 : 12 , 8 : 17 , 8 : 23 , 9: 7 , 12 : 9 , 12 : 11 , 12 : 16, 13: 11 , 13 : 24, 14 : 8, 14 : 11 , 14 : 23, 15 : 22 , 16 : 1 , 16 : 12 , 18: 11 , 21 : 7 , 21 : 23 , 23: 1 , 23: 9 , 23: 25 , 25: 16, 25: 17, 26 : 21 , 34 : 3, 34 :4 , 34 : 10 , 34 : 13, 34 : 14, 35 : 6 , 37: 16, 39: 8 , 39: 14 , 39: 24, 40 : 6 , 40 : 11 , 40 : 13, 40 : 14, 40 : 17, 42 : 18 , 47: 18, 61 : 23, 68 : 8, 78: 5 , 78: 6 , 91 : 5 , 91 : 15, 91 : 18, 95 : 25 , 96 : 3 , 96 : 6 , 97 : 5 , 97: 17, 98 : 1 , 98: 18, 98: 21 , 99 : 22 , 100 : 1 , 100 : 21 , 104 : 14 , 104 : 17 , 104 : 19 , 113 : 19 , 116: 15 , 116 : 21 , 116: 24 , 117 : 6, 117 : 10 , 126: 7 , 126 : 17 , 127: 15 , 130 :4, 132 : 15 , 132 : 24 , 134 : 16 ,136 : 5, 137 : 13 , 140 : 5 ,

140 : 22 , 146 : 13 , 147 : 10 , 152 : 3 , 152 : 7 , 153 : 1 , 153 : 20 , 154 : 8 , 158 : 2 , 158 : 24 , 159: 2 , 160 : 8, 161 : 7, 162 :21 , 163 : 1 , 163 : 20 , 164 : 8 , 165 : 21 , 166 : 14 , 175 : 13 , 181 : 20 , 204 : 20 , 208: 6 , 208 : 13 , 209: 25 , 210 : 3, 210 : 15 , 215 : 25 , 216 : 7 , 217: 6 , 222 : 21 , 225: 5 , 227 : 21 , 231 : 13 , 239 : 14 , 241 : 21 , 244 : 6, 244 : 9, 244 : 12 , 245 : 1 **news** [ 1 ] - 153 : 19 **newspaper** [ 1 ] - 160 : 22 **next** [13] - 41 : 13 , 105 : 20 , 106 :4 , 108: 6 , 126 : 16 , 126 : 25 , 128 : 24 , 154 : 15 , 196 : 10 , 206 : 23 , 213 : 1 , 216 : 15 , 218: 9 **NEZ** [5] - 5: 10 , 139 : 18 , 139: 20 , 140 : 1 , 140 : 3 **Nez** [2] - 140 : 3 **night** [1 ] - 93 : 13 **nine** [2] - 156 :4, 156 : 10 **nitrogen** [2] - 10 : 5 , 15: 10 **nitrous** [1 ] - 210 : 14 **NMAC** [2] - 11 : 5, 76 : 11 **NMED** [33] - 7 : 3 , 8: 3 , 43: 1 , 68: 11 , 68: 14, 69: 7 , 75: 24 , 76 : 2 , 76 : 14, 86 : 24, 87 :4, 87: 7 , 90 : 2 , 110 : 8 , 119 : 21 , 121 : 23 , 122 : 5, 154 : 3, 166 : 11 , 175 : 16 , 175: 24 , 182 : 15 , 193: 16 , 194 : 5, 205 : 15 , 215 : 11 , 219: 23 , 230 : 7, 230 : 22 , 242 : 21 , 243: 11 **NMED '** **s** [ 1 ] - 19: 18 **NMPRC** [2] - 166 : 3 , 221 : 6 **NMSA** [ 1 ] - 241 : 22 **NMUSA** [ 1 ] - 106 : 13 **no -** **win** [ 1 ] - 153 : 3 **nonair** [5] - 71 : 7 , 72 : 16, 175 : 18 , 233 : 11 , 241 : 15 **nonbinding** [2] - 90 : 3 , 240 : 22 **noncatalytic** [5] - 19: 23, 68 : 22 , 140 :24 , 142 : 11 , 211 : 1 **none** [6] - 78: 17, 130 : 14 , 153: 12 , 160 : 19 , 166 : 20 , 238 : 12 **nonetheless** [ 1 ] - 23: 10 **nonmercury** [ 1 ] - 74 : 23 **nonregulatory** [2] - 125 : 5, 125 : 9 **nonselective** [1 ] - 119 : 9 **nonsense** [ 1 ] - 161 : 22 **nontechnical** [5] - 12 : 14, 16 : 24, 17 : 8, 17: 18, 18 : 18 **noon** [1 ] - 66 : 18 **NO RMAN**  [4] - 5: 12 , 139 : 18 , 143: 5 , 143: 12 **Norman** [2] - 143: 11 , 143 : 15 **north** [ 1 ] - 116 : 18 **North** [ 1 ] - 38: 11 **northeastern** [ 1 ] - 133 : 14 **Northern** [2] - 196 : 15 , 225: 5 **Northwest** [4] - 2 : 15 , 97: 5 , 98: 18 , 99: 22 **Northwestern** [ 1 ] - 97: 17 **notably** [3] - 23 : 3 , 25: 3 , 29: 2 **NO TARY**  [ 1 ] - 250 : 19 **note** [5] - 20 :21 , 169 : 9, 182 : 9, 184 : 8 , 186 : 1 **noted** [2] - 132 : 25, 188 : 18 **nothing** [8] - 10 : 14, 146 : 18 , 146 : 25 , 147 : 20 , 159: 10 , 160 : 14 , 213: 6 , 220 : 23 **notice** [9] - 12 : 7, 12 : 9 , 44 : 13 , 76 : 9 , 169 : 16 , 230 : 13 , 230 : 17 , 231 : 7 , 249: 1 **noticeable** [ 1 ] - 89: 22 **noticed** [ 1 ] - 215 : 19 **notices** [2] - 7 : 16 , 76 : 13 **noticing** [ 1 ] - 44 : 9 **noting** [ 1 ] - 231 : 12 **notwithstanding** [1 ]

- 186 :21 **November** [ 1 ] - 15 : 5 **NO x**  [40] - 15: 7 , 15 : 9 , 15: 10, 15 : 17, 15 : 22 , 16 : 3 , 19: 21 , 20 : 10, 70 : 10, 72 : 20, 74 : 1 , 74 : 16, 77 : 22 , 79 :4, 79: 9 , 79: 16 , 79: 20, 79: 25, 80 : 5 , 80 : 14, 80 : 16, 82 : 13, 84 : 10 , 85: 15, 103 : 1 , 118 : 19 , 118 : 23 , 119: 1 , 125 : 15 , 130 : 25 , 136 : 17 , 136 : 21 , 165 : 15 , 172 : 12 , 180 : 20 , 183: 5 , 183 : 11 , 199: 1 , 211 : 3 **Nuclear** [ 1 ] - 146 : 23 **null** [ 1 ] - 123 : 23 **number** [34] - 10 : 1 , 19: 1 , 29: 1 , 30 : 10 , 65: 23, 74 : 9 , 84 : 9 , 85: 6 , 111 : 5 , 116 : 9, 118 : 10 , 131 : 1 , 136 :4 , 154 : 18 , 154 : 19 , 166 : 3, 170 : 3, 170 : 9 , 178 : 7, 183 : 12 , 189 : 13 , 189: 14 , 190 :4, 191 : 9, 200 : 11 , 200 : 12 , 200 : 14 , 201 : 17 , 215: 1 , 215: 3 , 228 : 9, 228 : 10 , 233: 7 , 238 : 20 **Number** [1 ] - 250 : 20 **numbers** [21 ] - 114 : 25 , 116 : 6 , 116 : 7 , 116 : 15 , 116 : 21 , 118 : 8, 184 : 15 , 184 : 18 , 191 : 11 , 191 : 17 , 197: 24 , 198 : 2 , 198 : 3, 198 :6 , 198 : 14 , 201 : 11 , 201 : 21 , 211 : 14 , 219 : 2 , 219 : 3, 233 : 16 **numerous** [6] - 52 :4, 69: 22 , 73 : 23, 141 :20 , 168 : 21 , 231 : 25 

## O

**O &** **M** [2] - 181 : 24 **o '** **clock** [1 ] - 66 : 8 **O -** **L -** **S -** **O -** **N** [1 ] - 195 : 8 **OA PQS**  [ 1 ] - 190 :20 **oath** [11 ] - 11 : 12 , 56 : 18, 69 : 15, 78 : 19 , 83: 6 , 170 : 25, 174 :20 , 185 : 8, 186 : 2 , 196 :20 , 209 : 12 **Obama '** **s** [ 1 ] - 105: 17 **object** [3] - 62 : 10, 221 : 1 , 221 : 2 **objection** [1 ] - 45 : 3 **objections** [4] - 43: 3 , 86 : 19, 86 : 21 , 86 : 22 **objective** [1 ] - 91 : 3 **obligated** [1 ] - 20 : 25 **obligations** [ 1 ] - 126 : 17 **observation** [2] - 127 : 23 , 188: 23 **observed** [ 1 ] - 188 : 22 **observer** [2] - 75 : 16 , 177 : 13 **obtain** [3] - 11 : 22 , 108 : 21 , 235: 20 **obtained** [ 1 ] - 35 : 15 **obtaining** [1 ] - 124 : 1 **obviously** [2] - 49: 17, 218 : 15 **occasions** [ 1 ] - 19 : 2 **occupied** [ 1 ] - 48: 8 **occur** [3] - 52 :21 , 53: 13, 71 : 1 **occurred** [2] - 20 :2 , 247 : 24 **occurring** [1 ] - 28: 21 **OF** [5] - 1 : 1 , 1 :4, 1 : 12 , 250 : 1 , 250 : 3 **offer** [3] - 132 : 7, 132 : 11 , 135: 24 **offered** [ 1 ] - 151 : 8 **offering** [ 1 ] - 135: 13 **offers** [ 1 ] - 99 : 11 **Office** [5] - 2 : 9, 3:4 , 23:4 , 38: 23 , 180 : 12 **office** [2] - 11 : 24, 154 : 2 **officer** [ 1 ] - 250 : 6 **Officer** [28] - 10 : 19 , 13: 8 , 13: 21 , 14 : 17, 51 : 7 , 51 : 11 , 54 : 19, 56 : 7 , 57: 7 , 63 : 13 , 66 : 24, 88 : 20, 111 : 19 , 115 : 14 , 121 : 10 , 122 : 9, 123 : 9, 128 :4 , 130 : 18 , 130 : 23 , 131 : 6, 139 : 3, 146 :6 , 152 : 1 , 174 : 22 , 209 : 14 , 223: 9 , 229: 22 **Offices** [ 1 ] - 209 : 8 **offset** [2] - 34 : 19 , 151 : 8 **Oil** [4] - 95 : 25 , 98 : 1 , 98: 21 , 100 : 1 **oil** [5] - 96 :2 , 97 : 6, 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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- 5018

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# 24

98: 20, 147 : 18 , 168: 6 **oil -** **fired** [ 1 ] - 168 : 6 **Oklahoma** [5] - 38: 10, 38 : 15, 38 : 17 , 52 : 16, 170 : 21 **older** [ 1 ] - 96 :24 **OLSON** [9] - 6 : 7 , 194 : 18 , 195: 1 , 200 : 10 , 201 : 7 , 201 : 13 , 201 : 19 , 201 : 24 , 214 : 24 **Olson** [ 11 ] - 8: 15, 14 : 2 , 194 : 14, 194 :21 , 194 : 22 , 195: 8 , 197: 2 , 199 : 21 , 202 : 11 , 214 : 20 , 216: 14 **omission** [ 1 ] - 170 :4 **once** [ 13] - 81 : 7 , 84 : 2 , 104 : 23, 112 : 9 , 112 : 11 , 112 : 22 , 113 : 17 , 114 : 12 , 163 : 15 , 176: 20 , 212 : 24 , 237: 12 , 244 : 7 **one** [99] - 16 : 21 , 21 : 17, 26 : 22 , 30 : 1 , 35: 10, 38 : 7 , 38: 12 , 40 : 7 , 40 : 9 , 46 : 14 , 47: 23, 48 : 11 , 48 : 19 , 49: 12 , 49 : 20, 49 : 23 , 50 : 10, 57 : 23, 58 : 7, 66 : 10, 66 : 12 , 75 : 14 , 80 : 5 , 82 : 24 , 83: 2 , 84 : 6 , 84 : 25 , 85: 3 , 87: 15, 88 : 10, 101 :6 , 103 : 8, 103 : 11 , 103 : 22 , 107: 13 , 111 : 12 , 116: 2 , 116 : 19 , 117: 2 , 117 : 22 , 125:4 , 126: 2 , 127 : 14 , 127: 15 , 130 : 19 , 132 : 18 , 134 : 15 , 139: 2 , 144 : 8 , 148 : 19 , 150 : 17 , 154 : 7, 159 : 1 , 159 : 19 , 160 : 6, 162 : 5, 164 : 5 , 165 : 9, 166 : 12 , 174 : 12 , 176: 8 , 177: 9 , 177 : 11 , 178:4 , 179 : 22 , 180 : 18 , 180 : 24 , 181 :4 , 181 : 10 , 185: 12 , 187 : 18 , 188: 5 , 189 : 16 , 192 : 1 , 199 : 25 , 204 : 25 , 210 : 1 , 210 : 14 , 211 : 12 , 211 : 25 , 212 : 15 , 214 : 25 , 216 : 25 , 220 : 7 , 220 : 25 , 223: 15 , 226 : 2 , 228 : 9, 232 :23 ,233 : 2 , 233 : 3, 234 : 15 ,

234 : 22 , 241 : 10 , 241 : 14 , 241 : 25 , 247 : 16 **one -** **seventh** [ 1 ] - 211 : 12 **ones** [ 1 ] - 37: 9 **ongoing** [4] - 30 : 2 , 121 : 12 , 140 : 19 , 169 :4 **onset** [ 1 ] - 107 : 23 **open** [7] - 59: 16, 59: 17, 87 :4 , 108 : 3, 226 : 3, 226 : 16 , 238: 11 **opened** [ 1 ] - 162 : 1 **opening** [3] - 10 : 11 , 163 : 2 , 167 : 5 **operate** [3] - 58: 10, 72 : 13, 213 : 22 **operating** [6] - 53: 12 , 94 : 9 , 104 : 17 , 122 : 19 , 180 : 16 , 218 : 19 **operation** [7] - 71 : 6 , 71 : 8 , 104 : 15, 129 : 15 , 143 : 20 , 195: 15 , 245 : 19 **operational** [2] - 30 : 18, 65 : 2 **operations** [3] - 129 :4, 156 : 2 , 208 : 13 **operator** [3] - 141 : 16 , 166 : 21 , 210 : 5 **operators** [1 ] - 189: 2 **opinion** [9] - 26 : 15 , 28: 12 , 36 : 13, 54 : 7, 97: 19, 182 : 15 , 184 : 16 , 220 : 18 , 245 : 18 **opinions** [2] - 25 : 14 , 25: 15 **opportunities** [4] - 12 : 21 , 25 : 25, 108 :24 , 144 : 25 **opportunity** [24] - 11 : 6 , 14 : 14 , 23: 21 , 24 : 21 , 40 : 16, 55 : 21 , 60 : 19, 65 : 3 , 98: 15, 99: 25, 100 : 3, 107 : 15 , 108 : 9, 132 : 7, 135 : 10 , 141 : 13 , 142 : 15 , 150 : 8, 151 : 18 , 154 : 17 , 154 : 23 , 157 : 19 , 224 : 10 , 225 : 3 **oppose** [ 1 ] - 42 : 22 **opposed** [4] - 239: 7 , 243 : 19 , 247:4 , 249: 12 **optimal** [2] - 79 : 18 , 192 : 18 **option** [6] - 30 : 25, 156 : 19 , 156 : 21 , 158 : 5, 217 : 18 , 217: 19 **options** [5] - 92 : 10 , 99: 13, 178 : 25 , 205: 1 , 220 : 8 **oral** [4] - 121 : 3 , 204 : 10 , 242 : 10 , 249 :4 **Order** [2] - 8 : 6, 247 : 8 **order** [ 18] - 13 :4, 19: 14, 26 : 2 , 26 : 13, 41 : 9 , 41 : 17 , 43: 13, 44 : 15, 44 : 24, 46 : 5, 46 : 7 , 64 : 22 , 140 : 12 , 153 : 8, 154 : 21 , 198 : 13 , 221 : 20 , 222 : 15 **ordered** [2] - 27 : 5, 153 : 9 **orders** [ 1 ] - 11 : 10 **organic** [2] - 74 : 22 , 211 : 18 **organization** [2] - 35: 10, 38 : 6 **organizations** [2] - 34 : 24, 56 : 5 **original** [ 12] - 21 : 17 , 33: 19, 68 : 3 , 72 : 18, 90 : 13, 103 : 3, 140 :21 , 177 : 17 , 183: 16 , 184 : 5, 192 : 25 , 214 : 3 **originally** [ 1 ] - 193 : 1 **otherwise** [2] - 240 : 5, 240 : 6 **ourselves** [4] - 29: 20, 39 : 13, 147 : 15 , 206 : 2 **outages** [2] - 93 : 12 , 93: 14 **outcome** [ 11 ] - 27:4 , 27: 24, 42 : 11 , 43 : 19 , 44 : 12 , 46 : 6 , 53: 16, 56 : 24, 152 : 21 , 210 : 7 , 211 : 5 **outcomes** [1 ] - 43 : 10 **outlet** [1 ] - 181 : 12 **outline** [ 1 ] - 43 :4 **outlined** [3] - 41 : 2 , 49: 1 , 164 : 11 **outlining** [ 1 ] - 243: 22 **outperform** [ 1 ] - 85: 24 **output** [ 1 ] - 206 : 8 **outreach** [ 1 ] - 78: 2 **outside** [6] - 14 : 3, 44 : 17, 52 : 24, 111 : 9 , 163 : 6, 199 : 25 **outstanding** [2] - 242 : 22 , 243: 22 **overall** [5] - 80 : 6 , 129 :4, 178 : 23 , 179 : 16 , 246 :4 **overestimated** [ 1 ] - 188 : 19 **overestimating** [ 1 ] - 188 : 24 **overlooked** [1 ] - 34 :6 **oversaw** [3] - 168 : 25 , 179: 22 , 179 : 24 **oversight** [2] - 171 : 16 , 230 : 9 **overview** [7] - 175:4 , 175 : 7, 180 : 3, 182 :22 , 197 : 3, 197 : 7, 209 :21 **own** [ 10] - 23 : 21 , 36 : 25, 39 : 13, 44 : 7, 57: 21 , 108 : 12 , 120 : 9 , 140 : 14 , 188: 23 , 189 : 7 **owned** [2] - 200 :4 , 210 : 1 **owner** [1 ] - 210 : 5 **owners** [ 13] - 29 : 5 , 29: 10, 29 : 18, 30 : 6, 30 : 10, 30 : 13, 101 :20 , 156 :4, 156 : 10 , 197 : 11 , 200 : 11 , 200 : 12 , 210 : 10 **owners '**  [ 1 ] - 166 : 5 **ownership** [4] - 197 : 12 , 200 : 3 , 200 : 19 , 213: 21 **oxides** [3] - 10 : 5 , 15: 10, 210 : 14 

## P

**p .**  **m** [5] - 109: 21 , 162 : 17 , 162 : 18 , 224 : 3, 224 :4 **PA** [2] - 2 : 14 , 136 :22 **package** [ 1 ] - 190 : 25 **pads** [ 1 ] - 99: 8 **PAGE** [3] - 4 : 2 , 5 : 2 , 6 :2 **page** [37] - 49 : 8 , 49: 9 , 83: 1 , 83 : 3 , 114 : 22 , 115: 2 , 115 : 12 , 120 : 3 , 120 :4 , 128 : 16 , 128: 19 , 128 : 21 , 169: 24 , 170 : 1 , 170 : 3, 170 : 7 , 170 : 9, 170 : 11 , 170 : 14 , 170 : 19 , 174 : 13 , 183: 25 , 188 : 2 , 196 : 6, 196 : 10 , 200 : 2 , 200 : 25 , 201 : 9 , 204 :4, 204 : 14 , 209: 1 , 209 : 3, 209 : 6, 211 : 10 , 213 : 24 , 214 : 12 , 215 : 19 **pager** [1 ] - 12 :4 **pages** [4] - 52 : 17 , 53: 8 , 53: 9 **paid** [ 1 ] - 134 : 1 **Palo** [1 ] - 146: 22 **panel** [9] - 17 : 17 , 76 : 23, 109 : 25 , 130 : 13 , 173: 2 , 179 : 12 , 194 : 16 , 219 : 10 **panels** [1 ] - 92 :2 **paper** [1 ] - 133: 8 **paperwork** [ 1 ] - 124 : 5 **parade** [ 1 ] - 138 : 11 **paragraph** [ 19] - 48: 21 , 80 : 19, 170 : 1 , 170 : 2 , 174 : 15 , 201 : 3 , 201 : 10 , 201 : 22 , 203 : 10 , 203: 15 , 203 : 16 , 222 : 8 , 222 : 16 , 222 : 21 , 247 : 16 , 247: 21 , 248 : 23 , 248: 25 , 249 : 1 **paragraphs** [3] - 247 : 14 , 248: 5 , 249: 2 **parameters** [3] - 83: 23, 180 : 16 , 180 : 17 **Park** [20] - 7 : 20 , 37: 23, 75 : 21 , 75 : 25 , 76 :4 , 83: 10 , 116 : 23 , 119 : 20 , 119: 23 , 120 : 1 , 120 : 13 , 120 : 19 , 124 :4 , 126 : 8 , 188 : 18 , 189: 24 , 190 : 1 , 190 : 10 , 190 : 12 , 191 : 12 **Park '** **s** [1 ] - 38 : 5 **parking** [2] - 97: 10, 138 : 16 **parks** [1 ] - 127 : 21 **Part** [1 ] - 7 : 7 **part** [36] - 16 :6 , 20 : 20, 40 : 21 , 43 : 6, 61 : 2 , 68: 9 , 79 : 14 , 79: 15, 79 : 22 , 83 : 15 , 102 : 17 , 112 :4 , 115 : 17 , 117: 21 , 123 : 2 , 126 : 15 , 127: 3 , 127 : 16 , 155: 18 , 155 : 19 , 157: 5 , 158: 6 , 159 : 7, 168 : 17 , 172 : 1 , 175 : 25 , 176: 10 , 176 : 19 , 193: 1 , 200 : 18 , 204 : 15 , 207 : 21 , 210 : 5 , 213 : 22 , 213: 23 , 219 : 23 **partial** [2] - 186 : 9 **partially** [3] - 185: 25, 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 25

200 :4, 203 : 22 **participate** [4] - 24 : 21 , 39 : 11 , 41 : 15 , 53: 16 **participated** [4] - 47: 6 , 60 : 23 , 168 : 17 , 168 : 20 **participating** [3] - 39: 19, 45 : 6 , 46 : 9 **participation** [ 1 ] - 163 :4 **particular** [2] - 30 : 9 , 242 : 11 **particularly** [4] - 71 : 17, 98 : 20, 147 : 3 , 222 : 16 **particulars** [ 1 ] - 189 : 9 **particulate** [7] - 15: 12 , 16 : 9 , 16 : 10, 72 : 23, 75 : 1 , 125 : 14 , 211 : 17 **particulates** [ 1 ] - 33: 14 **parties** [ 14] - 13 : 20 , 44 : 14, 64 : 7 , 95: 7 , 102 : 12 , 186: 9 , 188:4 , 188 : 5, 204 : 2 , 224 : 1 , 240 : 19 , 241 : 8 , 250 : 14 , 250 : 16 **Partnership** [2] - 126 : 23 , 127: 3 **parts** [ 1 ] - 79 : 13 **pass** [2] - 101 :20 , 166 : 6 **past** [7] - 18: 24 , 19:4 , 20 : 23 , 20 : 24, 21 : 11 , 48 : 22 , 140 : 17 **paste** [2] - 54 : 9 , 54 : 16 **path** [12] - 26 : 15, 26 : 18, 31 :4 , 32 : 13, 34 : 11 , 35 : 5 , 47: 5 , 53: 18, 54 : 1 , 55: 8 , 97: 22 **pay** [4] - 92 : 16, 92 : 17, 93 : 21 , 147 :4 **paycheck** [1 ] - 144 : 8 **paying** [2] - 90 : 12 , 146 : 8 **payments** [ 1 ] - 186 : 23 **PEACOCK** [49] - 2 : 3 , 10 : 1 , 41 : 2 , 43 :23 , 44 : 19, 45 : 13, 45 : 22 , 47: 12 , 48 : 18, 49 : 7, 49: 9 , 49: 22 , 50 : 15, 50 : 23, 51 : 3 , 51 : 5 , 54 : 3 , 55: 24 , 87: 11 , 109 : 11 , 109: 13 ,110 : 13 , 110 : 19 ,

110 : 23 , 115: 8 , 193: 8 , 193 : 22 , 194 : 3 , 213: 8 , 236 : 9, 236 : 16 , 236 : 20 , 238: 17 , 239 :4, 239 : 7, 240 : 12 , 244 : 1 , 244 :4, 245 : 5 , 246 : 7, 246 : 11 , 246 : 15 , 246 : 19 , 247 : 1 , 247 :4, 248 :4 , 248 : 16 , 249: 9 , 249: 12 **Peacock** [8] - 41 : 1 , 41 : 6 , 47: 14 , 49: 13, 51 :4 , 53: 5 , 56 :2 **peaking** [5] - 32 : 3 , 137 :4, 147 : 9, 151 : 9 , 166 : 1 **pending** [2] - 15 : 24 , 186 : 8 **people** [45] - 35: 23, 40 : 11 , 40 : 17, 46 : 8, 47: 19, 56 :4 , 65: 23, 66 : 12 , 87 : 15, 95 : 12 , 101 : 13 , 101 : 22 , 107 : 11 , 108: 24 , 108 : 25 , 109: 2 , 109: 5 , 132 : 20 , 132 : 21 , 134 : 6, 134 : 9, 135 :23 , 137 : 25 , 138: 25 , 143 : 25 , 144 : 3 , 144 : 25 , 147: 16 , 158 : 25 , 159: 3 , 159 : 16 , 159: 19 , 160 : 7, 160 : 24 , 161 : 2 , 161 : 13 , 163: 24 , 214 : 14 , 214 : 17 , 224 : 6, 224 : 23 , 225 : 12 , 244 : 6 , 244 : 25 **per** [35] - 69 :2 , 74 : 5, 74 : 6 , 79: 5 , 80 : 17 , 90 : 12 , 91 : 15, 91 : 18 , 91 : 23, 92 : 15, 111 : 13 , 112 : 1 , 113 :4, 118 : 10 , 119 : 16 , 130 : 25 , 131 : 1 , 148 : 5, 170 : 16 , 170 : 17 , 176 : 2 , 178 : 14 , 178: 18 , 180 : 20 , 180 : 21 , 183 : 12 , 183: 19 , 183 : 22 , 184 :4 , 196 : 11 , 196 : 13 , 199 : 5, 199 : 7, 211 : 11 **percent** [42] - 34 : 5, 74 : 8 , 74 : 11 , 74 : 12 , 74 : 14, 74 : 21 , 74 : 23 , 74 : 24, 75 : 1 , 75: 2 , 96 : 2 , 99: 6 , 113: 6 , 113 : 7, 113 : 16 , 116 : 15 , 126 : 13 , 126 : 14 , 133: 16 , 133 : 18 , 150 : 16 , 161 : 22 , 177: 10 , 177 : 12 , 177: 23 , 177 : 24 , 181 : 1 , 181 : 2 , 190 : 6, 211 : 16 , 211 : 17 , 211 : 18 , 211 : 19 , 211 : 20 , 211 : 24 , 213: 14 , 225 : 10 , 225: 19 , 225 : 21 , 225: 22 **percentage** [3] - 34 :4 , 118 :4 , 126 : 12 **percentile** [6] - 84 : 7 , 84 : 19, 114 : 25 , 115 : 16 , 116 : 2 , 118: 6 **perceptible** [3] - 33: 7 , 75: 16 , 177 : 12 **perfect** [2] - 11 :21 , 26 : 14 **perfectly** [ 1 ] - 146 : 19 **perform** [ 1 ] - 85: 10 **performance** [ 16] - 78: 22 , 78 : 25, 79 : 7, 79: 14, 79 : 24, 80 : 2 , 80 : 6 , 80 : 11 , 80 : 12 , 80 : 15, 114 : 10 , 114 : 13 , 120 : 9 , 128 : 21 , 128: 22 , 205 : 21 **performed** [5] - 70 : 11 , 83 : 19, 84 : 16 , 125 : 5, 175 : 7 **perhaps** [7] - 49 : 20, 65: 9 , 127 : 6 , 198 : 17 , 221 : 7, 221 : 24 , 222 :4 **period** [12] - 80 : 11 , 80 : 13, 80 : 15, 89 : 3, 112 : 12 , 112 : 16 , 112 : 23 , 113: 18 , 113 : 23 , 113: 25 , 114 : 13 , 178: 2 **periods** [2] - 178 : 1 , 178 : 3 **permanent** [ 1 ] - 148 :4 **permission** [ 1 ] - 248 : 1 **permit** [25] - 64 : 25, 65: 7 , 81 : 6 , 112 : 2 , 112 : 5, 112 : 11 , 112 : 19 , 112 : 21 , 112 : 22 , 113: 7 , 113: 9 , 114 : 14 , 121 : 8 , 121 : 13 , 121 : 14 , 121 : 17 , 122 : 6 , 122 : 19 , 122 : 20 , 122 : 24 , 124 : 2 , 124 : 9 , 175 : 13 , 177: 3 **permit '** **s** [ 1 ] - 121 : 16 **permits** [ 1 ] - 248 : 14 **permitted** [3] - 118 : 22 , 118: 24 , 119 : 1 **permitting** [3] - 81 : 1 , 96 : 21 , 122 : 13 **Permitting** [2] - 67: 14, 80 : 23 **person** [4] - 11 : 14 , 89: 23, 130 : 2 , 151 : 3 **personal** [3] - 153 : 22 , 157: 21 , 188 : 23 **personally** [7] - 95 : 5, 100 : 21 , 144 : 13 , 155 : 13 , 188: 21 , 226 : 13 , 250 : 10 **persons** [2] - 11 : 7 , 11 : 13 **perspective** [ 12] - 33: 17, 50 : 17, 51 : 18 , 51 : 20, 140 : 18 , 165:4 , 216 : 3, 221 : 13 , 237 : 10 , 242 : 24 , 243 : 9 **perspectives** [ 1 ] - 236 : 3 **pertaining** [ 1 ] - 168 : 14 **Peter** [2] - 14 : 10, 152 : 2 **PETER** [4] - 3 : 3 , 5 : 18 , 149 : 19, 151 :21 **petition** [7] - 10 : 24 , 12 : 7 , 121 : 6 , 231 : 5, 239 : 10 , 243: 21 , 243 : 24 **Petition** [3] - 8 : 13 , 8 : 18 , 9 : 7 **pgouldlaw @** **gmail .**  **com** [ 1 ] - 3 : 5 **phase** [2] - 80 : 8, 80 : 10 **PhD** [2] - 82 : 2 , 174 : 2 **philosophical** [ 1 ] - 243 : 18 **phone** [ 1 ] - 12 :4 **phrase** [ 1 ] - 57: 2 **physical** [2] - 124 : 7 , 124 : 22 **physics** [ 1 ] - 77 : 16 **piece** [2] - 32 : 18 , 176 : 8 **pieces** [1 ] - 43: 6 **Pinto** [ 1 ] - 229 : 10 **PIOCHE** [4] - 4 :24 , 104 : 1 , 106 : 21 , 107: 2 **Pioche** [ 1 ] - 107 : 3 **pipeline** [6] - 32 :4 , 61 : 5 , 61 : 6 , 99 :20 , 151 : 10 , 217: 10 **place** [ 14] - 41 : 25, 46 : 25, 55 : 7 , 91 : 10, 101 : 2 , 110 : 7, 121 :22 , 124 : 8, 171 : 9, 172 :23 , 173 : 8, 195 : 9, 230 : 17 , 244 : 17 **places** [2] - 69: 22 , 82 : 24 **plain** [ 1 ] - 58 : 13 **plan** [ 114] - 13: 16, 16 : 16, 16 : 17, 17 : 3, 18: 8 , 19: 18 , 19: 21 , 19: 24, 19 : 25, 20 : 5, 20 : 9 , 20 : 11 , 20 : 14, 21 : 9 , 21 : 15 , 22 : 2 , 22 : 17, 22 : 24, 23 : 18 , 23: 20, 23 : 21 , 25 : 17 , 26 : 21 , 27 : 17, 28 : 9, 32 : 23, 34 : 14, 35 :4, 35: 7 , 35: 8 , 35 : 10 , 35: 13, 35 : 15, 36 : 18 , 37: 20, 42 : 16, 43 : 14 , 48: 14, 53 : 19, 53 : 20 , 53: 23, 53 : 24, 58 : 18 , 61 : 10, 65 : 11 , 66 : 2 , 66 : 10, 81 :4 , 92 : 11 , 94 : 15, 95 : 13, 99 : 10 , 100 : 24 , 101 : 19 , 102 : 5, 105 : 6, 105 : 12 , 106 : 1 , 106 : 8, 106 : 9 , 106 : 14 , 108: 5 , 108 : 16 , 132 : 11 , 135 : 9, 136 : 15 , 136 : 20 , 136: 21 , 136 : 24 , 137: 2 , 137: 6 , 137 : 8, 137 : 13 , 137 : 14 , 137: 15 , 137 : 18 , 138: 3 , 140 : 25 , 146: 19 , 148 : 21 , 150 : 14 , 150 : 24 , 151 : 19 , 155 : 9, 158 :4, 163 :22 , 164 : 14 , 164 : 25 , 165 : 12 , 166: 7 , 203: 3 , 210 : 9, 210 : 11 , 210 : 21 , 210 : 23 , 210 : 25 , 211 : 11 , 211 : 12 , 211 : 16 , 211 : 21 , 211 : 23 , 211 : 24 , 212 : 1 , 212 : 7 , 212 : 23 , 212 : 24 , 213 : 3, 213 : 13 , 234 : 1 , 234 : 3 **PLA N**  [ 1 ] - 1 :4 **Plan** [58] - 10 : 3 , 10 : 21 , 15 : 17, 16 : 8, 16 : 14, 18 : 14, 18 : 18 , 19: 17, 20 : 3 , 20 : 13, 21 : 2 , 21 : 21 , 24 : 16, 27: 3 , 27: 6 , 27 :22 , 28: 2 , 28: 5 , 31 : 15 , 32 : 19, 32 : 24, 33 : 18 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 26

33: 19, 36 : 2 , 38: 17, 73: 14, 78 : 1 , 81 :4 , 93: 6 , 94 : 14 , 98: 3 , 98: 8 , 99: 15 , 100 : 2 , 103 : 19 , 104 : 21 , 126 : 18 , 140 : 21 , 141 : 2 , 141 : 10 , 141 : 11 , 141 : 15 , 142 : 6, 142 : 24 , 144 : 20 , 150 : 11 , 152 : 6, 152 : 19 , 163 : 19 , 166: 17 , 182 : 2 , 210 : 9, 210 : 16 , 226 : 20 , 226: 25 , 232 : 6, 234 : 20 , 243: 13 **planet** [ 1 ] - 89 : 18 **planned** [1 ] - 141 : 20 **planning** [5] - 32 : 15 , 106 : 3, 139 : 1 , 186 :25 , 207 : 18 **Planning** [2] - 81 : 23 , 180 : 13 **plans** [4] - 22 : 11 , 107 : 8, 201 : 1 , 218 : 16 **Plans** [ 1 ] - 23: 7 **Plant** [3] - 107: 17, 107 : 18 , 142 : 1 **plant** [59] - 25 : 19 , 26 : 9 , 31 : 12 , 40 : 9 , 61 : 6 , 61 : 10 , 61 : 11 , 61 : 15, 62 : 13, 93 : 10 , 93: 11 , 93 : 16, 94 : 10 , 94 : 16, 97 : 2 , 99: 21 , 105 : 8, 105 : 20 , 105 : 23 , 106: 12 , 106 : 18 , 108: 9 , 124 : 8 , 129 : 16 , 133: 23 , 134 : 24 , 137:4 , 141 : 6 , 141 : 16 , 141 : 21 , 141 : 23 , 142 : 14 , 146 : 21 , 146: 23 , 146 : 24 , 151 : 10 , 156 : 2 , 159 : 9, 162 : 1 , 166 : 1 , 175 : 13 , 180 : 24 , 180 : 25 , 181 : 5, 197 : 13 , 198 : 22 , 200 : 7 , 205 : 22 , 211 : 24 , 212 : 20 , 215: 3 , 215:4 , 216 : 10 , 220 : 20 , 222 : 17 , 225: 19 , 226 : 5, 226 : 10 **plant '** **s** [ 1 ] - 197 : 15 **plants** [ 18] - 61 : 15 , 95: 2 , 97: 7 , 105: 5 , 133 : 16 , 141 : 19 , 142 : 2 , 143 : 18 , 143 : 20 , 144 : 1 , 144 : 2 , 144 : 12 , 146: 17 , 147 : 9, 154 : 19 , 168: 6 ,168 : 7, 168 : 18 **Plata** [2] - 96 :20 , 96 : 22 **play** [2] - 62 :4, 191 : 20 **playground** [1 ] - 160 : 16 **plays** [1 ] - 197: 8 **pleased** [2] - 23: 15, 240 : 18 **pleasure** [ 1 ] - 19 :2 **plus** [ 1 ] - 146 : 22 **PM** [3] - 82 : 24 , 125 : 15 , 136 : 22 **PNM** [ 180] - 7: 13, 8: 9 , 9 : 3 , 15 : 22 , 23 :2 , 26 : 2 , 26 : 5 , 26 : 12 , 27: 20, 28: 16, 29 : 14, 29 : 15 , 31 : 11 , 31 : 16, 31 : 25 , 32 : 5 , 32 : 7 , 32 : 17 , 33: 20, 33 : 24, 35 : 9, 37: 2 , 42 : 17 , 42 : 25, 43: 12 , 45 : 10, 46 : 5, 47: 19, 49 : 17, 50 : 17 , 54 : 14, 56 : 3 , 56 : 9 , 56 : 11 , 56 : 15, 56 : 17 , 56 : 20, 56 : 24, 57 : 24 , 59: 18, 60 : 1 , 61 : 21 , 62 : 14, 65 : 3 , 68: 9 , 68: 13, 79 : 25, 82 : 10 , 82 : 13, 82 : 25, 83 : 3, 83: 17, 83 : 18, 83 : 24 , 84 : 3 , 86 : 21 , 90 : 2 , 90 : 15, 90 : 17, 94 : 13 , 95: 2 , 96 : 19 , 101 : 11 , 101 : 23 , 106 :4 , 106 : 14 , 106 : 16 , 107 : 7, 108 : 8, 108 : 10 , 108 : 18 , 111 : 17 , 112 : 2 , 113 : 20 , 121 : 23 , 122 : 7 , 122 : 23 , 124 : 1 , 127: 7 , 128 : 6, 129 : 7, 130 : 3 , 130 : 7, 131 : 13 , 135 : 16 , 135: 19 , 135 : 22 , 137: 3 , 141 : 16 , 142 : 12 , 142 : 16 , 145: 11 , 146 : 19 , 148: 8 , 150 : 10 , 151 : 5 , 151 : 9 , 151 : 11 , 151 : 13 , 154 : 3, 155 : 25 , 158: 2 , 159 : 24 , 160 : 22 , 162 : 6, 166 : 21 , 167:4 , 168 : 10 , 169: 8 , 169 : 15 , 171 : 22 , 174 : 8, 174 : 23 , 175: 2 , 175 : 19 , 182 : 10 , 185 :4, 185 : 17 , 185 : 22 , 186 : 13 , 188 : 19 , 189: 21 , 192 : 6, 192 : 18 , 193: 9 , 195 : 11 , 195: 25 , 196 : 23 , 197: 1 , 199 : 15 , 201 : 2 , 202 : 22 , 203: 20 , 204 : 1 , 204 : 8, 204 : 9 , 204 : 15 , 205: 6 , 205 : 10 , 205: 18 , 207 : 12 , 207: 17 , 208 : 10 , 208: 18 , 209 : 15 , 209: 18 , 209 : 23 , 210 : 8 , 210 : 10 , 210 : 15 , 212 : 1 , 212 : 3, 212 :20 , 214 : 14 , 214 : 15 , 216 : 9, 216 : 19 , 217 : 22 , 218: 18 , 219 : 23 , 220 : 9 , 221 : 1 , 221 : 2 , 222 : 22 , 227 : 22 , 227: 23 , 228 : 2 , 228 : 3, 232 :20 , 233 : 21 , 235: 18 , 235 : 22 , 240 : 19 , 242 : 21 , 243: 11 , 248 : 11 , 248: 13 **PNM '** **s** [ 19] - 32 : 2 , 49: 21 , 51 : 18, 51 : 25 , 91 : 14, 91 : 25, 98 : 12 , 98: 24, 121 : 7, 152 : 9 , 154 : 11 , 162 : 14 , 164 : 8, 165 : 20 , 169 : 16 , 195: 15 , 197 : 7, 213 : 9, 221 : 13 **podium** [ 1 ] - 60 : 9 **point** [38] - 13 : 19 , 16 : 6 , 22 : 5 , 22 :21 , 27: 7 , 27: 16 , 36 :4 , 42 : 9 , 42 : 17 , 45: 10, 46 : 15, 47 : 23, 52 : 7, 52 : 11 , 58 :4 , 62 : 1 , 62 : 25, 64 : 6 , 64 : 24, 76 : 17, 84 : 25, 86 : 14 , 89: 25, 115 : 22 , 116 : 1 , 130 : 6, 146 : 12 , 156 : 14 , 166 : 25 , 187 :4, 189 : 7, 192 : 16 , 222 : 8, 232 : 20 , 234 : 2 , 234 : 22 , 235: 15 **pointed** [ 1 ] - 186 : 3 **pointing** [ 1 ] - 58 : 16 **points** [6] - 19: 13, 180 : 14 , 208: 13 , 242 : 14 , 243: 19 , 243 : 23 **Policy** [ 1 ] - 81 : 23 **policy** [15] - 14 : 1 , 18: 11 , 18 : 19, 28 : 18 , 37: 9 , 37: 12 , 50 : 10, 191 : 20 , 191 : 22 , 193 : 1 , 205 : 10 , 207 : 13 , 213: 10 , 215 : 20 , 216 : 3 **political** [3] - 36 :4 , 55: 18, 243 : 18 **politician** [ 1 ] - 35 : 19 **politicians** [ 1 ] - 161 : 7 **politics** [2] - 39 :23 , 226 : 11 **pollutant** [ 1 ] - 70 : 25 **pollutants** [4] - 74 : 16, 74 : 19, 74 : 20 , 74 : 24 **polluting** [ 1 ] - 159: 15 **pollution** [5] - 25 :23 , 161 : 15 , 219: 24 , 231 : 14 , 241 : 17 **poor** [3] - 32 : 15, 161 : 23 , 161 : 24 **poorer** [ 1 ] - 40 : 8 **poorhouse** [ 1 ] - 132 : 22 **populated** [1 ] - 40 : 14 **portal** [ 1 ] - 12 : 19 **portfolio** [4] - 34 : 15 , 212 :4, 213 : 16 , 213: 23 **portion** [4] - 56 :4, 133 : 14 , 203: 19 , 214 : 2 **positing** [ 1 ] - 38 :4 **position** [ 12] - 22 : 16, 36 : 9 , 48: 8 , 49 : 18 , 52 : 19, 130 : 8, 137 : 10 , 138 : 1 , 205 : 3, 215 :22 , 215 : 23 , 218: 23 **positive** [3] - 48 :4 , 48: 15, 204 : 6 **possibilities** [ 1 ] - 24 : 9 **possibility** [3] - 64 :4 , 220 : 12 , 235: 6 **possible** [ 10] - 30 :21 , 51 : 20, 51 : 22 , 57 : 12 , 65: 10, 78 : 1 , 106 : 6, 136 : 13 , 218: 16 , 235 :4 **possibly** [3] - 79 : 25 , 106 :4, 188 : 1 **post** [1 ] - 115: 17 **Post** [ 1 ] - 3:4 **post -** **processor** [ 1 ] - 115 : 17 **postcombustion** [ 1 ]

- 19 : 22 **potential** [ 11 ] - 24 : 9 , 31 : 9 , 105 : 16, 117 :24 , 129 : 3, 129 : 14 , 133: 5 , 134 : 15 , 134 : 23 , 205 : 20 , 205: 23 **potentially** [2] - 44 : 10, 205 : 25 **pound** [ 1 ] - 112 : 1 **pounding** [ 1 ] - 148: 8 **pounds** [ 10] - 19 :22 , 69: 2 , 79: 5 , 80 : 17 , 111 : 13 , 113: 3 , 180 : 20 , 180 : 21 , 199 : 5, 199 : 6 **poverty** [2] - 34 :4 , 101 : 14 **Power** [7] - 107: 17 , 107 : 18 , 142 : 1 , 196 : 15 , 200 : 5 , 208: 14 **power** [37] - 28 : 23 , 61 : 15, 92 : 17, 94 : 10 , 97: 7 , 101 : 23, 102 :20 , 103 : 12 , 105: 11 , 137 : 6, 141 : 6, 143 : 18 , 144 : 1 , 144 : 12 , 146 : 17 , 147: 1 , 159: 9 , 161 : 21 , 167: 24 , 168 : 6, 168 : 18 , 195 : 16 , 195: 20 , 200 : 8, 200 : 19 , 202 : 20 , 203: 6 , 204 : 6 , 204 : 12 , 216: 22 , 217 : 18 , 220 : 8 , 221 : 5 , 225 : 19 , 226: 5 , 226 : 10 , 238: 24 **powered** [ 1 ] - 141 : 19 **powerful** [ 1 ] - 47 : 24 **PPA** [ 1 ] - 196 : 7 **practicability** [1 ] - 242 :4 **practical** [6] - 102 : 3 , 102 : 9, 102 : 23 , 103: 6 , 103 : 18 , 240 : 3 **PRC** [ 19] - 41 : 16 , 41 : 20, 41 : 22 , 42 : 16 , 43: 17, 62 : 6 , 62 : 17, 62 : 18, 102 : 22 , 148: 8 , 217 : 12 , 234 : 23 , 235 : 8, 237 : 5, 241 :4 , 241 : 5, 241 : 6, 241 : 8 , 248 : 13 **PRC '** **s** [3] - 235: 11 , 235 : 12 , 248: 10 **Pre** [1 ] - 8 : 20 **Pre -** **Filed** [ 1 ] - 8 :20 **preaching** [ 1 ] - 88 :23 **precedes** [1 ] - 100 : 17 **precious** [ 1 ] - 147 :21 **predecessor** [1 ] - 208 :4 **predetermined** [1 ] - 44 : 12 **predict** [3] - 114 : 18, 206 :4 **predicted** [2] - 115 : 22 , 116:4 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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- 5018

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- 3606 

# 27

**preface** [ 1 ] - 203 : 19 **prefer** [6] - 50 : 18, 51 : 19, 51 : 21 , 54 : 15 , 108 : 2 , 134 : 18 **preferable** [ 1 ] - 105 : 21 **preference** [3] - 49: 25, 137 : 12 , 226: 15 **preferred** [ 1 ] - 50 : 13 **prefiled** [20] - 69 : 13 , 128 : 17 , 169: 14 , 169 : 19 , 170 : 23 , 170 : 24 , 171 : 21 , 172 : 19 , 174 : 6 , 174 : 19 , 175: 5 , 180 : 3 , 195 : 24 , 196: 18 , 197 : 3, 207 : 22 , 208 : 16 , 208: 21 , 209 : 11 , 209: 21 **prejudge** [4] - 43: 9 , 43: 19, 154 : 13 , 154 : 22 **prejudiced** [2] - 22 : 7 , 27: 14 **preparation** [2] - 76 : 5 , 175 : 17 **prepare** [3] - 69 :25 , 108 : 5, 180 : 9 **prepared** [6] - 169 : 14 , 171 : 21 , 174 : 6, 180 : 12 , 195 : 24 , 208: 16 **prescribe** [ 1 ] - 70 : 15 **present** [ 10] - 12 : 2 , 12 : 8 , 12 : 10 , 59: 21 , 109 : 5, 142 : 21 , 145 : 17 , 165: 24 , 226 : 22 , 239: 23 **presentation** [1 ] - 223 : 10 **presented** [5] - 132 : 24 , 201 : 12 , 212 : 7, 237 : 21 , 239: 19 **presenting** [3] - 179 : 11 , 191 : 17 , 194 : 16 **preservation** [ 1 ] - 98: 11 **preserve** [ 1 ] - 11 : 11 **President** [6] - 102 : 14 , 105: 17 , 131 : 8, 131 : 14 , 131 : 18 , 132 : 5 **president** [ 16] - 14 : 1 , 14 : 2 , 95: 25 , 107 :4, 140 : 7, 143 : 16 , 173 : 10 , 173: 13 , 186 : 1 , 195 : 11 , 205 : 10 , 207: 13 , 208 : 9, 215 : 20 , 223 : 20 , 224 : 24**President '** **s** [ 1 ] -

105 : 19 **presidents** [2] - 139 : 5, 139 : 13 **presumably** [2] - 192 : 7, 201 : 19 **presuming** [ 1 ] - 42 : 12 **pretreating** [2] - 80 : 1 , 128 : 23 **pretreatment** [ 1 ] - 80 :4 **pretty** [3] - 85 :4 , 97: 11 , 190 : 19 **prevailed** [1 ] - 153:4 **prevent** [2] - 45 : 17 , 231 : 14 **previous** [4] - 72 : 8, 99: 2 , 188 : 20, 242 :6 **previously** [6] - 90 : 10, 172 : 15 , 174 : 24 , 175: 16 , 179 : 5, 246 : 22 **price** [4] - 90 : 12 , 191 : 3, 191 : 5, 210 : 12 **prices** [ 1 ] - 98: 20 **pricing** [ 1 ] - 208 : 6 **primarily** [ 1 ] - 225 :20 **primary** [2] - 233 : 2 , 233 : 3 **principle** [4] - 108: 8 , 108 : 25 , 142 : 9 , 186 : 11 **priv y**  [2] - 121 : 21 , 243 : 6 **probable** [2] - 198 : 9 , 198 : 17 **problem** [4] - 55: 5 , 104 : 25 , 105: 3 , 244 : 15 **procedurally** [ 1 ] - 16 : 5 **Procedure** [ 1 ] - 11 : 9 **procedure** [ 1 ] - 193 : 1 **procedures** [3] - 11 :4 , 11 : 5 , 180 : 8 **proceed** [8] - 13 :4 , 13: 17, 16 : 20, 17 : 1 , 41 : 19, 67 : 2 , 76 : 22 , 166 : 9 **proceeding** [18] - 69: 5 , 78: 11 , 82 : 16, 163 : 5, 168 : 10 , 170 : 25 , 174 : 8 , 174 : 24 , 174 : 25 , 175 : 6, 186 :4, 186 : 10 , 209 : 12 , 210 : 7 , 218: 3 , 221 : 10 , 250 : 7 , 250 : 14 **Proceedings** [4] - 65: 18, 109 : 20 , 162 : 17 , 224 : 3 **proceedings** [ 1 ] - 43: 20 **PROCEEDINGS** [1 ] - 1 : 12 **process** [34] - 18: 16 , 24 : 20, 36 : 16, 47 : 25 , 52 : 21 , 52 : 24, 62 : 2 , 62 :4 , 71 : 16 , 77: 24, 78: 2 , 79: 15 , 89: 7 , 90 : 8 , 165 :4 , 165 : 6, 167 : 2 , 169 : 5, 174 : 5 , 175 : 23 , 179: 23 , 180 : 10 , 187: 21 , 189 : 11 , 193:4 , 199 : 13 , 200 : 14 , 214 : 2 , 217 : 13 , 217 : 14 , 218: 1 , 218 : 25 , 237: 17 , 241 : 9 **processes** [ 1 ] - 123 : 5 **processing** [ 1 ] - 72 : 24 **processor** [ 1 ] - 115 : 17 **procure** [ 1 ] - 182 : 11 **procurement** [ 1 ] - 195 : 16 **produce** [3] - 30 : 6 , 33: 10, 96 : 2 **produced** [2] - 105 : 11 , 178: 10 **produces** [ 1 ] - 47 : 1 **producing** [ 1 ] - 29: 24 **production** [2] - 34 : 8 , 246 : 3 **productive** [ 1 ] - 215 : 9 **productivity** [2] - 181 : 19 , 190 : 7 **products** [2] - 152 : 16 , 233: 13 **profession** [ 1 ] - 100 : 22 **professional** [3] - 77: 18, 172 : 12 , 195: 22 **professionally** [ 1 ] - 94 : 8 **profit** [ 1 ] - 161 : 15 **Program** [3] - 80 : 23, 108 : 19 , 142 : 20 **program** [5] - 15 : 13 , 79: 12 , 79 : 23, 108 : 14 , 208 : 15 **programs** [5] - 77: 10, 100 : 20 , 148: 3 , 234 : 9 **progress** [2] - 15 :2 , 105 : 16 **progresses** [ 1 ] - 12 : 23 **prohibits** [ 1 ] - 30 : 11 **project** [11 ] - 68 : 2 , 105 : 2 , 167 : 24 , 168: 5 , 168 : 25 , 169: 1 , 169: 3 , 169 : 6, 169 : 7, 179 :21 , 190 : 25 **projected** [ 1 ] - 177 : 20 **projects** [5] - 168 : 20 , 171 : 17 , 171 : 19 , 172 : 10 , 172 : 12 **promises** [2] - 185 : 16 , 213: 19 **promotion** [ 1 ] - 140 : 15 **promulgate** [3] - 21 : 1 , 52 : 23 , 218 : 14 **promulgated** [2] - 15: 20, 21 : 10 **promulgating** [1 ] - 27: 3 **proof** [ 1 ] - 217 : 22 **proper** [ 1 ] - 230 : 13 **properly** [ 1 ] - 27: 11 **property** [3] - 160 : 13 , 231 : 18 , 242 : 1 **proposal** [34] - 19 : 3 , 19: 15, 25 : 12 , 28 : 9, 33: 11 , 33 : 12 , 33 : 14 , 33: 25, 34 : 7 , 34 : 10, 34 : 14, 34 : 21 , 39 :4, 42 : 13, 42 : 15, 42 : 16 , 90 : 1 , 90 :4 , 98 :22 , 98: 24, 99 : 17, 132 :25 , 133 : 11 , 156 : 18 , 166 : 11 , 183: 18 , 187 : 6, 205 : 17 , 214 : 3 , 231 : 2 , 237 : 21 , 240 : 2 , 240 : 25 , 243: 24 **proposals** [ 1 ] - 134 : 18 **propose** [2] - 44 :4 , 162 : 13 **proposed** [41 ] - 10 : 20, 16 : 7 , 21 : 16, 25: 20, 33 :4 , 33: 25, 34 : 18, 52 : 5 , 75: 19, 92 : 11 , 99 : 10, 132 : 11 , 132 : 25 , 133: 10 , 134 : 19 , 135: 3 , 136 : 20 , 137: 2 , 140 : 22 , 150 : 11 , 163 : 20 , 165: 2 , 165 : 13 , 193: 8 , 197 : 15 , 197: 20 , 198 : 21 , 199: 2 , 202 : 18 , 213: 9 , 221 : 11 , 230 : 15 , 230 : 18 , 237:4 , 237 : 25 , 240 :4 , 240 : 7 , 246 : 5, 247 : 9, 249 :6 **Proposed** [1 ] - 8 : 6 **PROPOSED** [ 1 ] - 1 :4 **proposing** [2] - 20 : 12 , 90 : 17 **proprietary** [1 ] - 130 :4 **prospect** [2] - 98: 11 , 98: 14 **prospective** [1 ] - 137 : 16 **prosperity** [3] - 97 : 5 , 132 : 17 , 136: 11 **protect** [6] - 32 : 14 , 36 : 10, 40 : 17, 103 : 5 , 129 : 7, 206 : 2 **protected** [ 1 ] - 122 : 23 **Protection** [4] - 7 : 10 , 78: 6 , 89: 19 , 105 :4 **protection** [3] - 99: 11 , 132 : 16 , 136 : 11 **protocol** [1 ] - 80 : 3 **proud** [ 1 ] - 151 : 5 **proven** [1 ] - 148: 18 **provide** [46] - 11 : 6, 17: 2 , 17: 8 , 19 : 9 , 19: 14, 20 : 15, 26 : 10 , 32 : 5 , 32 : 7 , 32 :24 , 33: 1 , 33: 20 , 37: 24, 37: 25, 49 : 19, 50 : 5, 51 : 8 , 56 : 5 , 65 : 3 , 69 :4, 70 : 1 , 90 : 22 , 94 : 7 , 98: 16, 99 : 23, 101 :23 , 106 : 3, 120 : 6, 121 : 13 , 144 : 5, 145 : 13 , 147: 9 , 149 : 11 , 152 : 17 , 175 : 6, 179 : 17 , 180 : 2 , 180 : 6, 187 : 11 , 197: 3 , 197 : 6, 197 : 14 , 204 : 17 , 209: 20 , 230 : 13 , 230 : 16 **provided** [ 12] - 16 : 15, 38 : 2 , 47: 13, 70 : 14, 102 : 2 , 138 :4 , 144 : 1 , 176 : 14 , 176 : 22 , 231 : 7 , 232 : 10 , 243: 14 **provides** [ 10] - 25: 21 , 26 : 7 , 40 : 13, 68: 18, 68 : 19, 98 : 10 , 209 : 23 , 210 : 22 , 212 : 2 , 231 : 15 **providing** [ 11 ] - 16 :4 , 18: 15, 19 : 6 , 28: 18, 39: 18, 98 : 14, 135 : 10 , 140 : 18 , 197: 9 , 201 : 2 , 214 : 1 **provision** [4] - 49 : 19 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 28

126 : 21 , 234 : 8 , 235: 17 **provisions** [7] - 15 : 8 , 64 : 17, 64 : 18, 78 : 22 , 78: 25, 216 : 3, 245 :23 **PS** [1 ] - 137: 21 **Public** [26] - 2 : 13 , 2 : 19 , 7 : 10 , 8 : 11 , 8: 16, 8 :22 , 9 : 6, 12 : 9, 13: 24, 16 : 1 , 40 : 12 , 41 : 16, 61 : 17, 61 : 23, 78 : 5, 154 : 8, 159 : 1 , 162 :20 , 162 : 25 , 165: 22 , 200 : 5, 215 : 25 , 216: 8 , 216 : 20 , 217: 6 , 222 : 22 **PUBLIC** [ 1 ] - 250 : 19 **public** [70] - 7 : 15 , 7 : 17 , 7 : 19 , 11 :23 , 12 : 2 , 12 : 3 , 12 : 18 , 12 : 22 , 12 : 24, 13 : 3, 14 : 1 , 14 : 13 , 24 : 11 , 24 : 13, 24 : 20, 24 : 21 , 42 : 3 , 44 : 9 , 44 : 10 , 44 : 13, 44 : 17, 44 : 18 , 52 : 21 , 52 : 24, 53 : 14 , 63: 11 , 65 : 22 , 65 : 25 , 66 : 10, 66 : 17, 75 : 18 , 75: 20, 76 : 7 , 76 : 9 , 78: 1 , 87: 5 , 87 : 13 , 87: 23, 109 : 15 , 131 : 10 , 131 : 17 , 138 : 25 , 146: 8 , 147: 7 , 149 : 5, 149 : 10 , 149 : 11 , 152 : 10 , 152 : 17 , 163: 6 , 180 : 3 , 207 : 13 , 209: 23 , 215 : 20 , 223: 23 , 224 : 6, 224 : 9, 224 : 10 , 231 : 3, 231 : 7, 231 : 18 , 231 : 22 , 232 : 1 , 234 : 21 , 236: 12 , 239 : 16 , 242 : 2 , 247 : 22 , 249: 2 **publication** [2] - 7 : 15 , 76 : 13 **publicly** [3] - 91 : 7, 186 : 14 , 210 : 2 **publicly -** **traded** [1 ] - 210 : 2 **published** [3] - 20 : 3 , 182 : 10 , 231 : 8 **Pueblo** [ 1 ] - 100 : 13 **pueblo** [ 1 ] - 100 :20 **pueblos** [1 ] - 100 : 21 **pulpit** [ 1 ] - 88: 23 **purchase** [ 1 ] - 200 : 20 **purely** [ 1 ] - 235 : 16 **purpose** [7] - 78: 25, 79: 7 , 79: 18 , 80 : 2 , 80 : 12 , 197 : 6, 217 : 17**purposes** [ 1 ] - 139 : 1 **pursuant** [ 1 ] - 11 : 5 **pursue** [1 ] - 188 : 12 **pursuing** [ 1 ] - 91 :4 **pursuit** [1 ] - 101 : 18 **push** [ 1 ] - 240 : 22 **pushed** [2] - 40 : 18 , 228 : 20 **pushing** [ 1 ] - 241 : 10 **put** [31 ] - 21 : 13 , 21 : 14, 21 : 21 , 37 : 2 , 39: 23, 46 : 15, 49 : 21 , 51 : 17, 55 : 8 , 64 : 9 , 93: 13, 105 : 2 , 112 :21 , 112 : 22 , 113: 7 , 113: 8 , 114 : 14 , 146 : 19 , 153 : 7, 154 : 11 , 157:4 , 165 : 3, 191 : 2 , 191 : 7 , 191 : 13 , 191 : 23 , 222 : 7, 240 : 15 , 241 : 12 , 244 : 8 , 244 : 17 **putting** [4] - 50 : 8 , 54 : 16, 132 : 22 , 248: 9 

## Q **qualifications** [ 1 ] - 171 : 25 **Quality** [8] - 67 : 14 , 77: 11 , 77 : 12 , 80 : 23 , 180 : 12 , 231 : 12 , 231 : 13 , 241 : 22 **quality** [11 ] - 71 : 7, 72 : 16, 140 : 16 , 145: 1 , 171 : 10 , 171 : 16 , 171 : 18 , 172 : 10 , 175 : 18 , 181 : 5 , 241 : 15 **quantitative** [ 1 ] - 73: 18 **quart er**  [ 1 ] - 75 : 13 **question '** **s** [ 1 ] - 123 : 22 **questionable** [1 ] - 222 : 5 **questioning** [5] - 48: 12 , 199 : 22 , 205 : 24 , 216 : 14 , 243 :4 **questions** [51 ] - 19: 10, 36 : 19, 36 : 24 , 40 : 25, 55 : 25, 60 : 2 , 60 : 3 , 60 : 8 , 60 :20 , 61 : 1 , 62 : 25 , 63:4 , 63: 23, 63 : 25, 76 : 21 , 81 : 10, 86 : 13, 86 : 18 , 110 : 10 , 111 : 1 , 118 : 16 , 120 : 25 , 125 : 25 , 126 : 1 , 126 : 2 , 128 : 9, 130 : 12 , 156 : 25 , 162 : 9 , 175 : 25 , 184 : 23 , 185 : 3, 188 : 14 , 191 : 25 , 194 : 6 , 194 : 7 , 194 : 9, 198 : 20 , 202 : 3 , 202 :4, 202 : 5, 202 :6 , 203 : 8, 206 : 13 , 206 : 17 , 212 : 10 , 213 : 17 , 215: 11 , 215 : 12 , 223: 5 , 236 :4 **quick** [ 1 ] - 63 : 20 **quickly** [2] - 164 : 25 , 232 : 15 **quite** [4] - 49: 16, 96 : 12 , 101 : 3, 180 :21 **quoted** [3] - 122 : 15 , 130 : 24 , 160 : 22 

## R

**radar** [ 1 ] - 244 : 20 **radiation** [ 1 ] - 48 : 10 **radical** [4] - 88 : 21 , 89: 17, 91 : 3 , 146 : 25 **rail** [2] - 103: 13 , 148 : 12 **rainbows** [ 1 ] - 91 : 12 **raise** [ 1 ] - 149 : 12 **raised** [ 1 ] - 139 : 9 **Raj** [3] - 14 :4 , 173 :2 **RAJ** [3] - 6 :4 , 167: 8 , 167 : 12 **RAJENDRA** [ 1 ] - 173 : 6 **Rajendra** [2] - 9: 5 , 173 : 5 **ralvidrez @** **mstlaw .**  **com** [ 1 ] - 2 : 17 **range** [4] - 106 : 1 , 182 : 12 , 189: 22 , 198 : 7 **ranged** [1 ] - 29: 16 **ranges** [ 1 ] - 177 : 21 **rate** [ 17] - 68 :25 , 79:4 , 79: 21 , 79: 22 , 80 : 14, 80 : 16, 80 : 19 , 111 : 25 , 113: 7 , 113: 9 , 124 : 15 , 125: 13 , 146 : 8, 203 : 2 , 203 :4 , 205 : 21 , 225: 10 **rate -** **pay ing**  [1 ] - 146 : 8 **ratepayer** [2] - 164 : 7 , 165 : 1 **ratepayers** [ 17] - 88: 25, 89 : 12 , 89 : 20 , 90 : 5 , 90 : 9 , 90 : 12 , 90 : 15, 92 : 14, 99 : 12 , 99: 14, 99 : 16, 106 : 8 , 106 : 17 , 146 : 10 , 148 : 10 , 148: 14 , 152 : 20 **rates** [3] - 152 : 13, 152 : 20 , 175: 12 **rather** [ 10] - 22 : 13 , 34 : 10, 38 : 12 , 87 : 15 , 161 : 1 , 161 : 14 , 162 : 7 , 165 : 9, 174 : 16 , 248: 15 **rationale** [ 1 ] - 156 : 13 **raw** [2] - 74 : 3, 233 : 12 **re** [2] - 130 : 20 , 153 : 8 **re -** **examining** [ 1 ] - 130 : 20 **re -** **order** [1 ] - 153: 8 **reach** [4] - 46 : 7 , 64 : 22 , 199 : 9, 240 :20 **reached** [ 10] - 16 : 2 , 31 : 15, 35 : 9 , 39: 5 , 40 : 3 , 43: 8 , 44 : 17 , 45: 10, 75 : 9 **reaching** [ 1 ] - 199 : 18 **reactor** [3] - 180 :23 , 181 : 7, 181 : 8 **reactors** [1 ] - 181 : 2 **read** [21 ] - 35: 1 , 123 : 16 , 170 :4 , 170 : 8 , 170 : 10 , 170 : 12 , 170 : 15 , 170 : 16 , 170 : 17 , 170 : 20 , 172 : 18 , 174 : 16 , 192 : 24 , 196 : 8 , 201 : 11 , 203: 18 , 204 :4, 208 : 23 , 246 : 17 , 246 : 18 **reading** [3] - 21 :4 , 123 : 8, 153 : 16 **reads** [1 ] - 196 : 7 **realistic** [2] - 132 : 12 , 134 : 12 **reality** [5] - 91 : 20 , 105 : 19 , 152 : 21 , 159 : 3, 226 : 17 **realize** [3] - 19: 7 , 43: 6 , 51 : 16 **really** [36] - 19: 14, 21 : 5 , 27: 7 , 30 :24 , 40 : 6 , 40 : 17 , 40 : 19, 55: 19, 56 : 16, 62 :4, 102 : 5, 102 : 17 , 102 : 18 , 110 : 16 , 113 : 13 , 114 : 24 , 126 : 19 , 127: 20 , 134 : 12 , 154 : 3 , 165: 8 , 166 : 9, 176 : 10 , 191 : 22 , 198: 6 , 205: 3 , 210 : 13 , 228: 14 , 230 : 8, 230 : 12 , 232 : 8 , 232 : 22 , 232 : 25 , 235 : 10 , 237: 6 , 244 : 16 **reason** [ 18] - 16 : 6, 16 : 13, 39 : 18, 43 : 7, 53: 1 , 53: 11 , 53: 17, 64 : 11 , 127 : 24 , 148 : 20 , 160 : 21 , 161 : 3, 187 : 6, 188 : 5 , 191 : 21 , 228: 8 , 238 : 10 , 248: 11 **reasonable** [ 10] - 11 : 6 , 15: 2 , 23 :22 , 50 : 7 , 101 : 16, 145 : 5 , 146 : 19 , 152 : 13 , 235 : 19 , 245: 24 **reasonableness** [ 1 ] - 242 : 5 **reasonably** [2] - 182 : 15 , 241 : 19 **reasons** [ 17] - 57: 24 , 98:4 , 99: 24 , 105 : 12 , 156 : 20 , 210 : 17 , 230 : 16 , 230 : 18 , 232 : 3, 235 : 7, 247 :6 , 247 : 11 , 248: 6 , 248: 9 , 248 : 18 , 248: 21 **Reasons** [2] - 8 : 6, 247 : 8 **recapture** [1 ] - 232 : 2 **receive** [ 1 ] - 75 : 18 **received** [ 11 ] - 12 : 17, 20 : 17, 29 : 14, 29 : 15 , 35: 1 , 75: 20 , 121 : 19 , 163 : 23 , 182 : 10 , 189 : 21 , 247: 22 **receives** [1 ] - 233: 22 **receiving** [2] - 37 :21 , 44 : 9 **recent** [1 ] - 91 :25 **recently** [2] - 47 : 17 , 226 : 10 **receptor** [3] - 115 : 21 , 115: 25 , 116 : 1 **recess** [4] - 65 : 18 , 109 : 20 , 162 : 17 , 224 : 3 **reclamation** [ 1 ] - 96 : 22 **recognition** [ 1 ] - 43: 9 **recognize** [5] - 46 : 14, 105 : 19 , 133: 9 , 213 : 12 **recognized** [2] - 25: 8 , 25: 10 **recognizes** [2] - 163 : 21 , 246: 1 **recognizing** [3] - 23: 16, 40 : 2 , 204 : 19 **recommend** [2] - 154 : 5, 241 : 2 **recommended** [ 1 ] - 84 : 6 **reconvene** [1 ] - 109 : 18 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 29

**record** [40] - 10 : 9 , 11 : 24, 18 : 21 , 28 : 7, 65: 21 , 67 : 10, 77 : 7, 81 : 19, 110 : 6, 138 :23 , 149 : 18 , 157: 5 , 162 : 20 , 166: 18 , 166 : 19 , 167: 18 , 169 : 22 , 171 : 5 , 172 : 18 , 173:4 , 174 : 19 , 195: 7 , 196:4 , 197 : 18 , 197: 21 , 207 : 7, 208 : 17 , 208 : 24 , 216: 16 , 219 : 17 , 221 : 12 , 221 : 25 , 237: 9 , 237 : 22 , 238: 11 , 238 : 12 , 241 : 7 , 241 : 12 , 243: 3 , 250 : 11 **recorded** [3] - 11 : 19 , 88: 2 , 250 : 10 **recovery** [ 1 ] - 183 : 8 **reduce** [ 13] - 25 : 22 , 79: 25, 85 : 13, 106 : 9 , 106 : 11 , 124 : 8 , 136 : 20 , 136: 21 , 136 : 24 , 137: 24 , 183 : 6, 199 : 17 , 211 : 22 **reduced** [8] - 74 :4 , 74 : 6 , 74 : 7 , 74 : 10 , 74 : 12 , 74 : 13, 150 : 16 , 233 : 12 **reduces** [5] - 145 : 10 , 211 : 16 , 211 : 23 , 211 : 25 , 213: 14 **reducing** [3] - 30 : 25 , 136 : 25 , 242 : 5 **reduction** [30] - 19: 24, 20 : 6 , 20 : 8 , 68: 22 , 70 : 25, 74 : 1 , 74 : 22 , 74 : 23, 74 : 24 , 112 :4, 119 : 3, 119 : 16 , 130 : 24 , 133: 2 , 134 : 21 , 136: 17 , 137 : 22 , 140 : 25 , 141 : 3, 142 : 11 , 150 : 20 , 172 : 12 , 198 : 21 , 199: 2 , 210 : 14 , 211 : 1 , 211 : 3 , 245 : 20 , 245: 21 **reductions** [ 11 ] - 20 : 10, 33 : 13, 72 : 20 , 72 : 22 , 73 : 23, 74 : 2 , 74 : 15, 74 : 19, 120 : 8 , 164 : 6, 245 : 18 **refamiliarize** [ 1 ] - 111 : 22 **refer** [2] - 203 : 13, 222 : 17 **reference** [2] - 118 : 2 , 170 : 20**referred** [ 1 ] - 52 : 14 **referring** [2] - 128 : 16 , 203: 15 **reflect** [3] - 190 :4 , 237 :4, 247 : 23 **reflected** [ 1 ] - 204 : 7 **refusal** [ 1 ] - 22 : 2 **refused** [2] - 52 : 10, 243 : 2 **regard** [ 10] - 28 : 19 , 64 : 16, 150 : 16 , 163 : 11 , 165: 15 , 176 : 25 , 187: 11 , 188 : 3, 222 : 23 , 234 : 22 **regarding** [6] - 10 : 2 , 16 : 24, 137 : 16 , 226 : 6 , 231 : 22 , 241 :4 **regardless** [5] - 12 : 2 , 29: 7 , 112 : 20, 127 : 8 , 248 : 12 **Region** [2] - 138 : 1 **region** [22] - 21 : 14 , 24 : 13, 24 : 18, 25 : 10 , 25: 22 , 25 : 25, 26 : 8, 26 : 9 , 31 : 17 , 32 :4 , 32 : 12 , 32 : 14, 46 : 19 , 98: 12 , 133 : 6, 133 : 12 , 134 : 25 , 137: 17 , 137 : 20 , 197: 14 , 205 : 8, 225 : 16 **Regional** [7] - 15: 3 , 126 : 23 , 127: 2 , 132 : 14 , 145: 6 , 164 : 6 , 234 : 8 **regional** [ 19] - 10 : 2 , 14 : 23, 15 : 6 , 19: 17, 20 : 17, 20 : 21 , 21 : 1 , 21 : 3 , 104 : 22 , 107 :23 , 136 : 19 , 145: 7 , 148 : 21 , 150 : 20 , 163 : 15 , 210 : 19 , 210 : 24 , 212 : 3 **register** [ 1 ] - 12 :25 **reg istered**  [2] - 77: 17, 195 : 22 **regret** [ 1 ] - 157 : 22 **regular** [ 1 ] - 147: 25 **regulate** [ 1 ] - 218 : 24 **regulated** [ 1 ] - 62 : 14 **Regulation** [9] - 41 : 16, 61 : 17, 61 : 24 , 154 : 8, 165 : 22 , 216 : 8 , 216 : 21 , 217: 6 , 222 : 22 **regulations** [11 ] - 34 : 6 , 105 : 25, 106 : 5 , 106 : 6, 141 : 20 , 141 : 25 , 218: 8 , 219: 8 , 230 : 16 , 231 : 16 , 232 : 10 **Regulations** [ 1 ] - 230 : 12 **regulatorily** [1 ] - 248 : 14 **regulatory** [ 15] - 17: 3 , 125 : 10, 165 :6 , 165 : 17 , 166 :4 , 166 : 5 , 167 : 1 , 204 : 20 , 205:4 , 207 : 17 , 208: 9 , 208 : 12 , 220 : 22 , 239 : 11 , 246 : 16 **Regulatory** [3] - 8 : 13 , 8 : 18 , 9 : 8 **reiterate** [2] - 86 :6 , 213 : 19 **reject** [2] - 90 :4 , 210 : 9 **related** [ 14] - 32 : 2 , 61 : 5 , 68: 20 , 69: 21 , 76 : 7 , 106 : 9 , 106 : 10 , 141 : 6, 144 : 2 , 152 : 15 , 168 : 20 , 174 :4 , 250 : 13 **relates** [ 1 ] - 128 : 22 **relating** [3] - 130 : 22 , 166 : 12 , 197: 19 **relation** [ 1 ] - 63: 22 **relationship** [ 1 ] - 96 : 19 **relative** [4] - 85 : 22 , 213 : 17 , 218: 15 , 250 : 15 **relatively** [ 1 ] - 177 : 9 **relevant** [6] - 168 : 13 , 172 :4, 173 : 22 , 195 : 19 , 203: 18 **reliable** [5] - 89 : 1 , 90 : 9 , 90 : 16 , 90 : 22 , 197 : 10 **relied** [ 1 ] - 182 : 16 **relief** [1 ] - 232 : 3 **relies** [2] - 176 : 10 , 178 : 12 **reluctant** [ 1 ] - 221 : 19 **rely** [1 ] - 92 : 11 **relying** [ 1 ] - 243 : 15 **remain** [6] - 30 : 18, 151 : 1 , 200 : 16 , 200 : 21 , 214 : 15 , 226 : 3 **remaining** [ 11 ] - 68: 22 , 71 : 13, 73 : 3, 73:4 , 119 : 12 , 119 : 17 , 146 : 23 , 177: 21 , 211 : 2 , 232 : 22 , 241 : 18 **remarks** [3] - 14 : 19 , 163 : 2 , 231 : 11 **remember** [3] - 61 : 7 , 89: 2 **REMEMBERED** [ 1 ] - 1 : 14 **remiss** [ 1 ] - 214 : 7 **removed** [2] - 176 : 3, 183 : 11 **removes** [ 1 ] - 199 : 11 **removing** [ 1 ] - 181 : 14 **renewables** [7] - 91 : 8 , 91 : 10 , 146 : 15 , 147 : 7, 147 : 11 , 147 : 13 , 148: 18 **reopen** [1 ] - 131 : 10 **repeat** [1 ] - 217: 25 **repeatedly** [3] - 27: 16, 28 : 8 , 58: 6 **repeating** [ 1 ] - 211 : 15 **repetition** [ 1 ] - 11 : 18 **replace** [ 18] - 42 : 5 , 42 : 7 , 90 : 18 , 91 : 10, 91 : 17, 92 : 2 , 92 : 8 , 92 : 17, 98 : 16, 98 : 24 , 105 : 11 , 145: 2 , 146 : 16 , 146 : 20 , 203 : 22 , 209: 7 , 216 : 23 , 239: 11 **replacement** [ 12] - 61 : 11 , 61 : 15, 90 : 24 , 137 : 6, 165 : 25 , 203: 6 , 204 : 6, 204 : 12 , 216 : 22 , 217: 19 , 220 : 8, 221 :4 **replaces** [1 ] - 246 : 17 **replacing** [1 ] - 146 : 20 **report** [4] - 44 : 7 , 153 : 17 , 156 : 8 , 156 : 9 **reported** [ 1 ] - 102 :25 **reporter** [2] - 11 :23 , 60 : 11 **REPORTER** [ 16] - 88: 16, 92 : 25, 95 : 21 , 100 : 10 , 104 : 7 , 106 : 25 , 131 : 23 , 139 : 24 , 143: 9 , 150 : 5 , 155 : 5, 157 : 13 , 158 : 21 , 224 : 15 , 227 : 8, 227 : 13 **Reporters** [ 1 ] - 11 :21 **represent** [10] - 35: 24, 94 : 9 , 96 : 1 , 103 : 17 , 133: 25 , 140 : 11 , 143: 15 , 143 : 23 , 152 : 10 , 225 : 7 **representations** [ 1 ] - 186 : 16 **Representative** [2] - 34 : 22 , 227 : 21 **represented** [3] - 144 : 15 , 204 : 12 , 226 : 14 **representing** [3] - 45: 8 , 104 : 16, 140 :4 **represents** [7] - 44 : 23, 44 : 25, 142 : 7 , 144 : 21 , 152 : 8 , 164 :4 , 165 : 13 **request** [ 11 ] - 63 : 21 , 166 : 10 , 185: 12 , 212 : 6, 234 : 19 , 237 : 20 , 239: 11 , 239 : 21 , 244 : 18 , 246 : 16 , 246: 22 **requesting** [2] - 193 : 15 , 244 : 14 **requests** [ 1 ] - 106 : 13 **require** [7] - 134 : 19 , 135 :4, 136 : 15 , 165 : 21 , 180 : 19 , 204 : 19 , 234 : 10 **required** [24] - 20 : 5 , 28: 3 , 41 : 17 , 44 : 21 , 52 : 25, 53 : 15, 58 : 2 , 72 : 13, 74 :4 , 79: 13, 105 : 23 , 111 : 18 , 112 :4, 121 : 18 , 124 : 12 , 140 : 23 , 141 : 2 , 164 : 9, 164 :23 , 212 : 21 , 212 : 25 , 241 : 21 , 248: 15 **requirement** [7] - 37: 19, 68 : 21 , 68 : 23 , 79: 10, 111 : 24 , 137 : 19 , 181 : 22 **requirements** [20] - 15: 3 , 17:4 , 37 : 1 , 65 : 2 , 65: 12 , 76 : 10, 81 : 6, 105 : 15 , 105: 22 , 105 : 24 , 106: 7 , 114 : 14 , 114 : 16 , 122 : 14 , 164 : 6 , 210 : 19 , 232 : 5 , 232 : 19 , 242 : 11 , 249 :4 **requires** [17] - 26 : 8, 41 : 9 , 70 : 18 , 70 : 21 , 70 : 23, 71 : 3 , 79: 1 , 91 : 15, 163 : 25 , 180 : 10 , 180 : 20 , 180 : 23 , 182 : 3 , 182 : 6 , 234 :4, 235 : 18 , 241 : 13 **requisite** [ 1 ] - 187 : 11 **rerun** [ 1 ] - 89: 3 **research** [ 1 ] - 244 : 15 **Research** [ 1 ] - 148: 2 **residences** [ 1 ] - 209 : 25 **resident** [2] - 150 : 9, 150 : 13 **residents** [ 1 ] - 225: 1 **residuals** [1 ] - 211 : 20 **resign** [ 1 ] - 107 : 20 **resiliency** [ 1 ] - 226 : 9 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 30

**resolution** [6] - 35 : 2 , 109 : 5, 142 : 22 , 145 : 17 , 226: 23 , 246 : 5 **resolve** [2] - 23 : 12 , 48: 5 **resolved** [ 1 ] - 161 : 19 **resolving** [ 1 ] - 240 : 23 **resource** [3] - 154 : 11 , 154 : 16 , 207 : 18 **Resource** [ 1 ] - 146 : 14 **resources** [2] - 34 : 16, 225 : 13 **respect** [ 19] - 10 : 3 , 67: 25, 68 : 16, 69 : 17 , 76 : 2 , 77: 22 , 82 : 8 , 83: 8 , 97: 24 , 126 : 17 , 132 : 24 , 167:4 , 172 : 18 , 218: 1 , 221 : 13 , 237:4 , 237 : 10 , 237: 13 , 237 : 23 **respectfully** [6] - 106 : 13 , 154 : 8 , 154 : 12 , 154 : 20 , 212 : 6, 234 : 19 **respective** [1 ] - 179 : 12 **respond** [3] - 64 : 1 , 129 : 20 , 185: 25 **responded** [ 1 ] - 119 : 21 **response** [6] - 48 : 12 , 51 : 9 , 76 : 3 , 120 : 12 , 120 : 19 , 120 : 20 **responses** [5] - 76 : 6 , 83: 10, 239 : 6, 247 : 3 , 249 : 11 **responsibilities** [3] - 168 :4, 169 : 7, 208 : 11 **responsibility** [4] - 161 : 14 , 162 :4 , 173 : 14 , 195: 14 **responsible** [ 10] - 136 : 6, 136 : 10 , 171 : 15 , 173: 15 , 207 : 16 , 207: 17 , 208 : 6, 208 : 8, 208 : 12 , 214 : 20 **rest** [2] - 149 :4 , 203 : 24 **restarting** [1 ] - 114 : 3 **restate** [1 ] - 232 : 2 **restraint** [ 1 ] - 54 : 24 **result** [22] - 21 : 2 , 22 : 25, 26 : 6 , 31 : 12 , 31 : 18, 31 : 25, 39 : 1 , 58: 1 , 84 : 16 , 85:4 ,85: 8 , 105 : 7 , 135 : 19 ,

145 : 5, 151 : 14 , 153: 2 , 153 : 8, 164 : 3, 164 :21 , 176 : 1 , 228 : 3, 241 :20 **resulted** [2] - 78 : 7 **resulting** [6] - 26 : 3, 26 : 14, 72 : 21 , 72 : 24 , 73: 24, 119 : 14 **results** [ 14] - 39 : 22 , 79: 16, 82 : 14, 176 :21 , 176 : 22 , 177: 6 , 177: 8 , 177 : 14 , 178: 6 , 178 : 10 , 178: 20 , 183 : 17 , 183: 19 , 184 : 6 **resume** [5] - 7 :25 , 8 : 5 , 67 : 23 , 77 : 19 , 82 : 6 **retail** [1 ] - 97 : 12 **retained** [ 1 ] - 111 : 6 **reticent** [ 1 ] - 221 : 10 **retire** [ 1 ] - 155 : 24 **retired** [ 10] - 31 :2 , 31 : 7 , 31 : 16 , 150 : 10 , 151 : 3, 151 : 11 , 158: 2 , 177 : 16 , 179: 20 , 203 : 22 **retirement** [11 ] - 25: 9 , 31 : 1 , 31 : 10 , 34 : 20, 144 : 24 , 165 : 19 , 176 : 6 , 202 : 17 , 202 : 19 , 210 : 25 , 215: 2 **retirements** [5] - 26 : 6 , 31 : 18 , 177 : 5, 220 : 13 , 221 : 14 **retiring** [4] - 25 : 18 , 32 : 11 , 151 : 7, 213 : 19 **retraining** [2] - 32 : 6 , 201 : 3 **Retrofit** [9] - 10 :4, 10 : 22 , 14 : 25, 19 : 19 , 165 : 13 , 232 : 13 , 232 : 19 , 239: 13 , 245 : 10 **RETROFIT** [ 1 ] - 1 : 5 **retrofit** [3] - 25 : 19 , 70 : 19, 71 : 20 **returned** [2] - 228 : 3 , 228 : 22 **revenue** [4] - 136 : 8, 137 : 24 , 192 : 7 , 192 : 11 **reverse** [1 ] - 42 :23 **review** [ 14] - 27 :22 , 68: 3 , 166 : 3 , 179 : 18 , 179 : 22 , 197: 9 , 216 : 21 , 231 : 3 , 231 : 7 , 234 : 21 , 236 : 12 , 239 : 17 , 243: 2 , 243: 12 **Review** [1 ] - 175: 13 **revise** [4] - 81 : 5 , 121 : 7, 238 : 18 , 247: 13 **revised** [75] - 15 : 17 , 16 : 15, 18 : 13, 18 : 17 , 31 : 14, 32 : 19, 32 : 24 , 33: 7 , 33: 9 , 33 : 18 , 35: 8 , 35: 10 , 36 : 1 , 39:4 , 41 : 23 , 42 :4 , 42 : 10, 42 : 15, 48 : 21 , 55: 1 , 93: 5 , 94 : 15 , 104 : 21 , 104 : 24 , 105 : 6, 105 : 13 , 106 : 1 , 109 : 6, 125 : 1 , 125 : 13 , 142 : 6, 142 : 24 , 144 : 20 , 145: 19 , 148 : 22 , 152 : 5 , 163 : 19 , 163: 22 , 165 : 9, 165 : 11 , 176 :4 , 177 : 1 , 177 : 15 , 177 : 18 , 178: 7 , 178: 9 , 178 : 14 , 178: 20 , 178 : 23 , 179: 1 , 179: 3 , 179 : 20 , 182 : 2 , 182 : 16 , 183: 18 , 184 : 2 , 185 : 13 , 192 : 5 , 192 : 10 , 193: 9 , 198 : 11 , 199: 6 , 199 : 18 , 202 : 18 , 210 : 8, 210 : 16 , 218: 3 , 220 : 10 , 221 : 2 , 221 :4 , 222 :4, 226 : 19 , 226 : 25 , 228: 7 , 246 : 6 **Revised** [1 ] - 170 : 13 **revision** [ 1 ] - 213 : 9 **Revisions** [2] - 8: 7 , 247 : 9 **REVISIONS** [ 1 ] - 1 :4 **revisions** [6] - 10 :21 , 64 : 25, 170 : 23 , 231 : 6 , 248 : 21 , 249: 7 **revisited** [ 1 ] - 213 :4 **revisiting** [2] - 89 : 3, 219 : 6 **RICHARD** [ 1 ] - 2 : 14 **Rick** [2] - 13: 23, 162 : 25 **Rickie** [1 ] - 140 : 3 **RICKIE** [4] - 5 : 10 , 139 : 18 , 139: 20 , 140 : 3 **rid** [ 1 ] - 248 : 22 **rights** [ 1 ] - 58 : 24 **Rio** [ 1 ] - 101 : 10 **rise** [ 1 ] - 29 :25 **risk** [2] - 164 : 22 , 191 : 2 **river** [4] - 159 : 12 , 159 : 13 , 159: 15 , 161 : 1 **River** [ 1 ] - 159: 15 **road** [2] - 96 : 23 , 190 : 22 **Rock** [ 1 ] - 138 : 14 **role** [9] - 62 :4, 67 : 25, 77: 22 , 82 : 8 , 82 : 10, 83: 14, 83 : 15, 171 : 15 , 197 : 8 **roles** [1 ] - 179: 12 **roll** [ 1 ] - 92 : 12 **rolling** [4] - 79: 5 , 80 : 18, 112 : 1 , 112 : 15 **Ron** [ 1 ] - 13 : 25 **RO NALD**  [4] - 6 : 10 , 194 : 18 , 207: 1 , 207: 9 **Ronald** [3] - 8: 10, 206 : 22 , 207: 8 **room** [3] - 14 : 22 , 216 : 13 , 216 : 15 **Room** [1 ] - 1 : 17 **roughly** [ 1 ] - 233 : 5 **round** [ 1 ] - 106 : 5 **route** [ 1 ] - 99 : 20 **routinely** [3] - 50 : 6, 52 : 14, 57 : 25 **royalties** [2] - 201 : 15 , 201 : 25 **rubber** [ 1 ] - 190 : 22 **rule** [67] - 15: 21 , 20 : 13, 20 : 15, 22 : 25 , 23: 8 , 25: 20 , 27: 3 , 27: 9 , 27: 10 , 27: 12 , 27: 13, 28 : 1 , 28: 13, 28: 14, 29 : 6 , 29: 7 , 29: 9 , 30 : 15 , 30 : 19, 31 : 2 , 31 : 7 , 33 :6 , 33 : 9, 34 : 2 , 34 : 12 , 36 : 11 , 37: 7 , 37: 18 , 37: 19, 37: 22 , 38 : 3 , 38: 11 , 41 : 25, 42 : 3 , 42 : 5 , 42 : 6 , 42 : 7 , 42 : 9 , 44 :4, 44 : 11 , 46 : 16, 46 : 21 , 46 : 24, 47 : 9 , 52 : 24, 59:4 , 134 : 19, 134 :23 , 137 : 19 , 150 : 25 , 163 : 15 , 164 : 15 , 165 : 2 , 165 :4, 176 : 11 , 178 : 12 , 187: 21 , 192 : 21 , 192 : 24 , 218 : 15 , 218: 18 , 218 : 21 , 237:4 **Rule** [5] - 15:4 , 132 : 14 , 145: 6 , 164 : 6 , 234 : 8 **ruled** [ 1 ] - 112 : 9 **rulemakers** [ 1 ] - 52 : 20 **rulemaking** [7] - 10 : 24, 11 :4 , 28:4 , 41 : 24, 43 : 19, 44 : 7, 45: 7 **rulemakings** [2] - 44 : 1 , 53: 13 **Rules** [2] - 11 : 9 **rules** [3] - 44 : 5 , 210 : 19 , 241 : 6 **run** [4] - 100 : 20 , 106 : 8, 161 : 14 , 164 : 22 **runaway** [1 ] - 153: 11 **running** [1 ] - 177: 2 **runs** [ 1 ] - 160 : 13 **RYAN** [3] - 4 :4 , 17: 12 , 18 : 1 **Ryan** [3] - 13 : 13 , 18: 21 , 51 : 6 

## S

**S &** **L** [3] - 174 : 16 , 174 : 17 , 184 : 13 **S &** **L '** **s** [2] - 182 : 13, 184 : 10 **S -** **H -** **E -** **L -** **L -** **Y** [ 1 ] - 131 : 25 **S -** **O -** **N -** **N -** **T -** **A -** **G** [ 1 ] - 104 : 10 **sad** [2] - 153 : 19 , 159 : 7 **saddled** [1 ] - 92 : 14 **safe** [ 1 ] - 197 : 10 **safety** [3] - 113: 13 , 113 : 15 , 113: 16 **sake** [ 1 ] - 230 : 19 **Salt** [ 1 ] - 224 :22 **salt** [ 1 ] - 159 : 14 **SAN** [1 ] - 1 : 5 **San** [ 132] - 1 : 17, 7 : 13 , 10 : 5 , 10 :21 , 15: 1 , 15: 9 , 15 : 12 , 15: 18, 15 : 22 , 16 : 10 , 16 : 11 , 19 : 19, 19 : 22 , 20 :4 , 22 : 12 , 25: 5 , 25: 13, 29 : 10, 29 : 12 , 30 :4 , 30 : 9 , 30 : 16 , 33: 15, 35 : 2 , 40 : 8 , 61 :4 , 61 : 22 , 68: 1 , 70 : 11 , 71 : 15, 73 : 22 , 77: 23, 79 : 3 , 81 : 5 , 82 : 9 , 89: 8 , 89 : 11 , 89: 21 , 90 : 17, 92 : 8, 93: 6 , 94 : 2 , 94 : 5 , 96 : 12 , 96 : 19, 97 : 9, 97: 11 , 99 : 7 , 104 : 22 , 105 : 8, 107 : 5, 107 : 15 , 107 : 16 , 107: 21 , 107 : 25 , 108: 9 , 108 : 20 , 109: 7 , 117 : 11 , 117: 23 , 127 : 5, 129 : 19 , 129 : 23 , 132 : 9 , 133: 2 , 133 : 13 , 133: 17 , 133 : 22 , 134 : 22 , 135 :4, 136 : 1 , 137 : 7 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 31

137 : 11 , 140 :4 , 140 : 20 , 140 : 22 , 140 : 23 , 141 : 24 , 142 : 5, 142 : 6, 142 : 13 , 142 : 14 , 142 : 16 , 142 : 21 , 142 : 24 , 143 : 1 , 144 : 20 , 145 : 19 , 146: 17 , 146 : 20 , 150 : 9 , 150 : 12 , 151 : 1 , 156: 1 , 156 : 18 , 158: 14 , 159 : 15 , 164 : 10 , 165 : 14 , 166: 22 , 169 : 11 , 175: 8 , 181 :4 , 183 : 15 , 186: 24 , 197 : 8, 197 : 9, 197 : 11 , 197 : 20 , 199: 5 , 200 : 16 , 203: 21 , 204 : 18 , 205: 7 , 205 : 22 , 210 : 5 , 210 : 10 , 215: 1 , 217 : 10 , 218: 1 , 219 : 25 , 225: 17 , 225 : 18 , 225: 21 , 225 : 23 , 225: 25 , 226 : 20 , 226: 25 , 228 : 7, 228 : 18 , 239: 15 **Santa** [5] - 2 : 11 , 3:4 , 100 : 15 , 148: 7 , 148: 12 **Santo** [ 1 ] - 100 : 13 **Sargent** [9] - 9:4 , 14 :4 , 173 : 10, 175 :20 , 179 : 17 , 179: 25 , 182 : 25 , 189: 25 , 197 : 25 **satisfies** [ 1 ] - 17: 3 **save** [2] - 23 : 12 , 106 : 8 **saves** [ 1 ] - 47 : 1 **saw** [2] - 47 : 24 , 228 : 22 **scale** [1 ] - 91 : 11 **scarce** [ 1 ] - 225 : 9 **scary** [ 1 ] - 151 :4 **scenario** [34] - 30 : 17, 72 : 10, 73 : 21 , 73 : 25 , 74 : 17, 84 : 8 , 84 : 17, 85: 1 , 85:4 , 85 : 9 , 85: 10, 85 : 13, 85 : 18 , 85: 21 , 85 : 24, 86 :4, 86 : 9 , 118 : 22 , 122 : 8 , 145 : 3, 176 :4, 176 : 5 , 176 : 7, 177 : 1 , 177 : 7 , 179 :4, 220 : 15 , 233: 8 , 233 : 23 , 234 : 15 **scenarios** [ 12] - 84 : 5, 85: 3 , 85: 10 , 122 : 19 , 175 : 15 , 176: 7 , 176 : 21 , 176: 25 , 178 : 16 , 232 : 24 ,234 : 14 , 234 : 15 **schedule** [ 1 ] - 13 : 2 **scheduling** [ 1 ] - 133 : 21 **scheme** [1 ] - 245 : 22 **school** [2] - 67 : 20 , 138 : 13 **SCHOOLEY** [25] - 4 : 10 , 5 :4, 17 : 12 , 77 : 1 , 110 : 2 , 111 : 19 , 112 : 17 , 113: 2 , 113 : 12 , 114 : 7 , 115: 2 , 121 : 10 , 122 : 9 , 123: 9 , 123 : 12 , 123: 15 , 123 : 18 , 123: 21 , 123 : 24 , 128: 15 , 128 : 18 , 129: 1 , 129: 6 , 129 : 17 , 130 : 1 **Schooley** [8] - 7 :21 , 7 :22 , 13: 14 , 77: 6 , 77: 8 , 121 : 2 , 128 : 14 , 130 : 9 **schools** [1 ] - 94 : 2 **science** [8] - 67 : 18, 67: 21 , 77 : 15, 77 : 16 , 82 : 2 , 160 : 5 , 168 : 16 , 172 : 7 **scientist** [ 1 ] - 81 : 22 **scope** [2] - 111 : 9 , 199 : 25 **score** [1 ] - 148 : 14 **SCR** [38] - 20 : 7 , 30 : 23, 72 : 7 , 74 : 17, 85: 2 , 85: 5 , 85 : 9 , 85: 13, 85 : 18, 85 : 24 , 86 :4 , 86 : 9 , 133: 2 , 134 : 21 , 135:4 , 135: 5 , 135 : 7, 177 : 15 , 179 : 19 , 180 : 7 , 180 : 15 , 180 : 17 , 180 : 19 , 180 : 21 , 180 : 23 , 181 : 7 , 181 : 11 , 181 : 13 , 182 : 14 , 183: 10 , 183 : 14 , 189: 18 , 197 : 20 , 233: 8 , 233 : 23 , 234 : 1 , 234 : 3 , 234 : 15 **screwed** [1 ] - 92 : 18 **SCRs** [4] - 178 : 11 , 182 : 6, 183 : 14 , 198: 8 **scrubber** [1 ] - 199 : 11 **scrubbers** [ 1 ] - 233 : 13 **sea** [ 1 ] - 180 : 25 **seasonal** [ 1 ] - 133 : 24 **seated** [ 1 ] - 194 : 17 **second** [ 11 ] - 49: 3 , 79: 24, 123 : 19 , 180 : 24 , 185: 16 , 210 : 20 , 211 : 8 , 219 : 14 , 239: 3 , 246 : 25 , 249: 8 **secondly** [ 1 ] - 98 : 10 **Secretary** [5] - 152 : 24 , 231 : 23 , 235 : 2 , 243 :4, 243 : 10 **secretary** [4] - 13 : 12 , 16 : 22 , 18 : 22 , 60 :4 **Section** [7] - 15: 3 , 67: 14, 79 : 1 , 81 : 23, 126 : 21 , 239: 12 , 241 : 22 **section** [7] - 48 :20 , 49: 6 , 79: 8 , 111 : 22 , 126 : 20 , 189: 17 , 222 : 11 **sections** [2] - 215 : 3, 230 : 11 **sector** [2] - 98 : 15 , 225 : 15 **see** [37] - 18 : 9 , 23: 22 , 39 : 1 , 55: 5 , 55: 6 , 55: 20 , 74 : 19, 106 : 1 , 106 : 16 , 110 : 20 , 111 : 20 , 112 : 14 , 114 : 20 , 118 : 6, 126 : 5, 127 : 19 , 150 : 19 , 153: 22 , 153 : 23 , 157: 20 , 158 : 7, 159 : 17 , 160 : 11 , 160 : 21 , 163 : 23 , 165: 22 , 183 : 14 , 184 : 11 , 188 : 7, 188 : 9, 193 : 10 , 204 : 7, 205 : 14 , 222 : 13 , 222 : 14 , 235 : 10 , 245: 13 **seeing** [7] - 47 : 8 , 56 : 22 , 90 : 23, 95 : 1 , 95: 2 , 130 : 14, 157 :22 **seek** [6] - 101 : 15 , 102 : 12 , 102 : 21 , 103 : 6, 217 : 9, 235 :22 **seem** [ 1 ] - 102 :2 **select** [ 1 ] - 99 :20 **selective** [ 11 ] - 19: 23, 20 : 6 , 20 : 7 , 68: 21 , 134 : 21 , 140 : 24 , 141 : 3 , 142 : 10 , 172 : 11 , 211 : 1 **self** [ 1 ] - 140 : 13 **self -** **sustaining** [ 1 ] - 140 : 13 **senator** [ 1 ] - 229 : 10 **Senator** [4] - 35 : 7, 39: 3 , 48: 13 , 229 : 10 **send** [2] - 94 : 1 **senior** [4] - 14 : 1 , 186 : 1 , 207 : 12 , 215: 20 **sense** [3] - 90 : 11 , 126 : 6, 230 : 13 **sensitive** [ 1 ] - 206 : 6 **sentence** [2] - 49: 7 , 203 : 25 **separate** [ 1 ] - 70 : 15 **separately** [ 1 ] - 17: 19 **September** [3] - 1 : 15 , 176 : 23, 248 :23 **series** [2] - 24 : 8, 165 : 16 **served** [2] - 140 : 7, 169 : 3 **Service** [29] - 2 : 13, 2 : 19 , 7 : 10 , 7 : 20 , 8: 12 , 8 : 16 , 8 : 23 , 9 : 6, 12 : 9 , 13: 24, 16 : 1 , 37: 24, 40 : 12 , 75 : 21 , 75 : 25 , 76 :4 , 78: 5 , 83 : 10 , 119 : 20 , 119: 23 , 120 : 1 , 120 : 13 , 120 : 19 , 124 :4 , 159: 1 , 162 : 21 , 162 : 25 , 188 : 18 , 191 : 12 **service** [6] - 96 : 5, 163 : 7, 208 : 8, 220 : 16 , 236 : 2 , 237 : 13 **services** [8] - 67 : 13 , 152 : 16 , 167: 25 , 171 : 11 , 171 : 16 , 171 : 18 , 173: 11 , 209 : 24 **session** [ 1 ] - 66 : 10 **sessions** [ 1 ] - 228 : 17 **set** [4] - 11 :4 , 19 : 21 , 113 : 1 , 218 : 7 **sets** [3] - 58: 20, 155 : 16 , 157: 1 **setting** [ 1 ] - 50 : 12 **settle** [3] - 26 : 25, 45:4 , 218 :4 **settlement** [13] - 41 : 9 , 43: 7 , 43 : 15 , 44 : 8 , 46 : 8 , 52 : 15 , 52 : 23, 53 : 6 , 53: 8 , 57: 12 , 60 : 23, 64 : 23 , 219 : 22 **seven** [ 1 ] - 107 : 19 **seventh** [ 1 ] - 211 : 12 **several** [9] - 12 : 17 , 98: 3 , 143 : 21 , 156 : 3 , 161 :4, 168 : 16 , 226 : 9 , 232 : 7, 233 : 1 **severe** [2] - 21 : 22 , 25: 10 **shall** [2] - 80 : 8, 241 : 14 **shame** [ 1 ] - 160 : 11 **share** [2] - 120 : 1 , 191 : 18 **shared** [ 1 ] - 234 : 25 **Shareholders** [2] - 104 : 14 , 104 : 20 **shareholders** [2] - 104 : 16 , 106: 17 **Sharon** [2] - 227 : 11 , 227 : 15 **SHARON** [3] - 6 : 16 , 227 :4, 227 : 15 **sheepherders** [ 1 ] - 107 : 12 **Sheet** [78] - 7: 9 , 43: 8 , 43: 24 , 44 : 15, 45: 16, 45 : 24, 46 : 3, 46 : 12 , 47 : 8 , 47: 16, 48: 2 , 48: 17 , 48: 19, 49: 1 , 50 : 25 , 52 : 11 , 52 : 16, 53 : 1 , 54 : 3 , 54 : 9 , 54 : 16 , 54 : 23, 54 : 25, 56 : 8 , 56 : 22 , 64 : 6 , 64 : 8 , 64 : 15 , 64 : 18, 65 : 1 , 65: 2 , 65: 12 , 68 : 9 , 68: 10, 68: 16, 68 : 19, 68 : 23 , 69: 1 , 72 : 1 , 78 : 9 , 78: 23, 79 : 1 , 79: 8 , 80 : 20, 81 : 7 , 111 : 21 , 112 : 5, 113 : 2 , 114 :4 , 122 : 14 , 122 : 16 , 123 : 2 , 123 : 6, 165 : 7 , 166 : 2 , 166 : 10 , 175 : 11 , 177:4 , 186 :4 , 186 : 11 , 186: 15 , 186 : 17 , 187: 12 , 188 : 9, 203 : 9, 203 : 16 , 204 : 17 , 212 : 24 , 222 : 8, 222 : 17 , 235 : 18 , 235: 21 , 236 : 12 , 236: 17 , 239 : 20 , 240 : 20 , 240 : 22 **sheet** [7] - 13 : 5 , 63: 10, 191 : 2 , 191 : 7 , 191 : 10 , 191 : 13 , 246 :4 **sheets** [ 1 ] - 52 : 12 **Shelly** [3] - 131 : 8 , 131 : 25 , 132 : 5 **SHELLY** [3] - 5: 8 , 131 : 19 , 131 : 25 **shift** [1 ] - 93 : 14 **Shiprock** [ 1 ] - 93: 9 **shocking** [ 1 ] - 153 : 21 **shoot** [1 ] - 109 : 17 **short** [9] - 25 : 5, 63: 9 , 75: 15, 93 : 14, 112 : 12 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 32

200 : 10 , 200 : 19 , 207 : 21 , 219: 18 **short -** **term** [ 1 ] - 200 : 19 **shorthand** [ 1 ] - 250 : 10 **shortly** [2] - 15: 19, 35: 8 **shoulder** [2] - 161 : 13 , 162 : 3 **show** [9] - 39 : 22 , 65: 24, 118 : 21 , 138 : 24 , 177: 14 , 178 : 6, 184 : 6, 217 : 18 , 224 : 5 **showed** [1 ] - 178: 14 **showing** [2] - 242 : 22 , 243: 23 **shown** [6] - 85 : 8, 85: 16, 85 : 17, 116 :6 , 116 : 11 , 118: 7 **shows** [9] - 84 : 18 , 84 : 21 , 85 : 2 , 85: 6 , 85: 20, 117 : 5, 117 : 18 , 184 : 2 , 204 : 25 **shut** [4] - 105:4 , 192 : 18 , 201 : 17 , 214 : 18 **shutdown** [15] - 25: 5 , 26 :4 , 68 :20 , 72 : 3 , 72 : 10 , 72 : 21 , 73: 20, 73 : 25, 74 : 20 , 119 : 14 , 137: 7 , 179: 3 , 200 : 9, 218 : 11 , 235: 20 **shutdowns** [ 1 ] - 72 : 12 **shuttered** [ 1 ] - 146 : 16 **shutting** [5] - 25 : 13, 119 : 6, 119 : 10 , 192 : 7 , 214 : 3 **shy** [ 1 ] - 239 : 25 **side** [8] - 25 : 8 , 61 : 1 , 61 : 3 , 111 : 7 , 111 : 13 , 164 : 23 , 245: 8 **sides** [ 1 ] - 25 : 1 **Sierra** [5] - 25: 3 , 146 : 15 , 159: 24 , 160 : 19 , 161 : 17 **sign** [ 10] - 12 : 25 , 13:4 , 25: 7 , 43 : 15 , 44 : 8 , 48: 15 , 52 : 1 , 53: 25, 63 : 10, 247 : 11 **sign -** **in** [ 1 ] - 63 : 10 **sign -** **up** [ 1 ] - 13 :4 **signed** [6] - 12 : 1 , 46 : 3 , 47: 16 , 64 : 14, 65: 23, 122 : 18 **significant** [21 ] - 20 : 9 , 29: 19 , 32 : 25,33: 8 , 33: 10 , 33: 12 ,

35: 14, 46 : 22 , 72 : 20 , 72 : 22 , 73 : 11 , 73 : 25 , 74 : 2 , 74 : 19 , 127 : 21 , 148 : 19 , 164 : 12 , 183 : 21 , 187: 1 , 210 : 7 , 210 : 22 **significantly** [6] - 29: 14, 33 : 14, 85 : 18 , 124 : 15 , 145: 10 , 184 : 3 **signing** [ 1 ] - 48 : 11 **silence** [ 1 ] - 12 : 5 **silent** [ 1 ] - 248 : 15 **Silver** [ 1 ] - 2 : 20 **similar** [7] - 53 :4, 84 : 23, 141 : 24 , 168 : 21 , 171 : 17 , 211 : 5, 234 : 10 **similarly** [2] - 102 : 21 , 230 : 15 **simplify** [ 1 ] - 246 : 21 **simply** [ 12] - 15 : 16 , 122 : 13 , 124 : 9 , 135 : 21 , 153: 6 , 153: 8 , 192 : 18 , 204 : 23 , 209 : 2 , 222 : 19 , 222 : 20 , 237: 12 **Simultaneous** [3] - 239 : 6, 247 : 3, 249 : 11 **simultaneously** [2] - 41 : 21 , 185 : 11 **single** [4] - 25 : 9 , 53: 7 , 117 : 22 , 152 : 14 **single -** **source** [ 1 ] - 117 : 22 **singled** [1 ] - 127: 22 **SIP** [ 108] - 8 : 7 , 10 : 3, 14 : 23, 15 : 6 , 15: 8 , 15: 20, 20 : 17, 20 : 21 , 21 : 1 , 21 : 3 , 21 : 17 , 22 : 8 , 22 : 11 , 33: 7 , 33: 9 , 41 : 3 , 41 : 5 , 41 : 23, 42 :4 , 42 : 10, 45: 19, 45 : 25, 47 : 13 , 48: 23, 54 :4 , 54 : 7 , 54 : 16, 55 : 1 , 58: 8 , 64 : 19, 72 : 8 , 75: 19, 81 : 7 , 89: 10 , 89: 16, 104 : 24 , 105: 13 , 106 : 1 , 110 : 21 , 114 : 11 , 121 : 25 , 122 : 22 , 125: 1 , 132 : 9 , 148 : 22 , 155: 8 , 165: 9 , 165 : 11 , 169: 11 , 170 : 13 , 176 :4 , 176 : 5 , 177 : 1 , 177 : 2 , 177 : 15 , 177 : 17 , 177: 18 , 178 : 7, 178 : 9, 178 : 14 , 178 : 21 , 178: 23 , 179 : 1 , 179 : 3, 179 :6 , 179 : 20 , 182 : 16 , 183 : 16 , 183: 18 , 184 : 3, 184 : 5, 185 : 14 , 192 : 5, 192 : 6, 192 : 10 , 193 : 9, 193 : 14 , 193 : 15 , 198: 6 , 198: 7 , 198 : 11 , 199: 6 , 202 : 18 , 204 : 15 , 213 : 9, 218 : 3, 221 :2 , 221 :4, 221 : 11 , 222 :4 , 231 : 1 , 231 : 5, 234 :23 , 235 : 1 , 235 : 5, 236 : 5 , 236 : 14 , 239: 12 , 240 : 13 , 242 : 22 , 243 : 12 , 246 : 6 , 247: 9 , 247 : 18 , 248: 24 **sit** [2] - 52 : 18 , 134 : 8 **site** [ 14] - 61 :4, 146 : 22 , 180 : 24 , 180 : 25 , 181 : 11 , 189 : 9, 189 : 18 , 189 : 20 , 190 : 3 , 190 : 5 , 190 : 21 , 191 : 9 , 204 : 18 , 205: 7 **site -** **specific** [5] - 189 : 9, 189 : 18 , 189 : 20 , 190 : 3 , 190 : 21 **sitting** [2] - 203 : 2 , 216 : 15 **situation** [20] - 21 : 6 , 21 : 14, 26 : 16, 26 : 19 , 29: 5 , 32 : 11 , 35:4 , 35: 5 , 36 : 5 , 36 : 7 , 36 : 10, 47 : 2 , 57: 25, 92 : 10, 152 : 22 , 153:4 , 153 : 5, 156 : 10 , 184 : 7 , 186 : 6 **situations** [2] - 35: 22 , 50 : 9 **six** [7] - 85: 22 , 85: 23, 85: 25, 86 : 2 , 113 : 20 , 113 : 22 , 233: 25 **SJGS** [ 1 ] - 133 : 21 **skill** [2] - 155: 16 , 157 : 1 **skip** [ 1 ] - 175 : 25 **slight** [ 1 ] - 231 : 6 **slightly** [2] - 122 : 1 , 196 : 6 **slip** [ 1 ] - 83: 13 **slower** [ 1 ] - 181 : 7 **sludge** [ 1 ] - 159: 12 **small** [2] - 57 : 17 , 127 : 16 **SNCR** [22] - 19 :24 , 30 : 23, 68 : 24, 72 : 8, 72 : 9 , 73: 21 , 73: 24, 79: 2 , 79: 14 , 79: 15, 83: 13, 123 : 6, 136 : 16 , 137 : 9, 137 : 11 , 176 : 6 , 178 : 24 , 179: 19 , 180 : 7, 183 : 10 , 198: 12 **SNCRs** [3] - 177: 16 , 179 : 20 , 182 : 3 **so -** **and -** **so** [ 1 ] - 222 : 12 **SO 2**  [ 13] - 69 : 1 , 74 :4, 75: 2 , 124 : 15, 125 : 14 , 198 : 21 , 198: 25 , 199 : 2 , 199 :4, 199 : 12 , 199 : 14 , 199: 18 , 234 : 10 **social** [2] - 231 : 19, 242 : 2 **society** [ 1 ] - 189 : 1 **soil** [ 1 ] - 67: 21 **solar** [6] - 91 : 9 , 91 : 25, 92 : 2 , 92 : 5 , 147 : 1 , 147 : 21 **sole** [2] - 216 : 8, 248 : 11 **solely** [ 1 ] - 243 : 10 **solid** [3] - 72 : 23 , 74 : 13, 233 : 15 **solution** [7] - 101 : 16 , 102 : 3, 102 : 23 , 103 : 18 , 153: 25 , 154 :4, 184 : 7 **solutions** [2] - 102 : 9 , 103 : 7 **solve** [ 1 ] - 46 : 5 **someone** [4] - 31 : 22 , 31 : 23, 58 : 23, 193 : 19 **sometime** [2] - 128 : 24 , 217: 7 **sometimes** [2] - 103 : 6, 144 : 8 **somewhat** [5] - 40 : 18, 58 : 5 , 58: 10, 216 : 1 , 235 : 15 **somewhere** [3] - 37: 2 , 136 : 3 , 210 : 12 **SONNTAG** [4] - 4 :22 , 104 : 1 , 104 : 3, 104 : 9 **Sonntag** [2] - 104 : 9 , 104 : 13 **soon** [ 1 ] - 146 : 16 **soon -** **to -** **be** [ 1 ] - 146 : 16 **sorry** [ 15] - 11 : 2 , 37: 10, 45 : 20, 57 : 24 , 63: 12 , 63 : 13, 72 : 25 , 150 : 25 , 173: 18 , 196 : 8, 212 : 16 , 223 : 16 , 223: 18 , 233 : 6, 248 : 3 **sort** [5] - 185 :4, 186 : 6, 200 : 6, 205 : 1 , 221 : 24 **sound** [2] - 60 : 16, 121 : 23 **Source** [ 1 ] - 175: 13 **source** [7] - 16 : 11 , 70 : 17, 70 : 20, 117 :22 , 117 : 23 , 241 : 17 , 241 : 18 **sources** [9] - 101 :24 , 117 : 3, 117 : 14 , 117 : 19 , 117: 25 , 127 : 7, 231 : 20 , 242 : 3 , 242 : 6 **South** [ 1 ] - 38 : 11 **south** [1 ] - 140 : 5 **Southern** [ 1 ] - 200 : 5 **Southwest** [ 1 ] - 2 : 20 **SOx** [ 1 ] - 211 : 3 **speaker** [2] - 99 : 2 , 100 : 17 **speaking** [4] - 32 : 20, 95: 6 , 146 : 9 , 148 : 10 **special** [ 1 ] - 189 : 17 **specializing** [ 1 ] - 172 : 11 **specific** [ 16] - 49 : 18 , 62 : 10, 62 : 21 , 70 :4, 128 : 13 , 129: 22 , 189 : 2 , 189 : 9, 189 : 18 , 189 : 20 , 190 : 3 , 190 : 21 , 221 : 3 , 222 : 9 , 222 : 17 , 233: 16 **specifically** [ 17] - 20 : 14, 22 : 1 , 28: 22 , 39: 16, 39 : 18, 62 : 11 , 85: 12 , 165 : 10 , 165 : 14 , 172 : 11 , 176 : 25 , 189: 6 , 190 : 3 , 197 : 7, 199 : 1 , 222 : 10 , 231 : 2 **specificity** [2] - 51 : 20, 51 : 22 **specified** [ 1 ] - 193 : 1 **specifies** [2] - 113 :2 , 192 : 24 **speculate** [ 1 ] - 214 : 8 **speculation** [ 1 ] - 220 : 6 **speech** [1 ] - 10 : 10 **spell** [21 ] - 88: 16, 92 : 25, 95 : 21 , 100 : 10 , 104 : 7, 106 : 25 , 131 : 23 , 139: 24 , 143 : 9, 150 : 5, 155 : 5 , 157 : 13 , 158: 21 , 167 : 18 , 171 :4 , 173:4 , 195 : 6, 207 : 7, 224 : 15 , 227 : 8, 227 : 13 **spelled** [2] - 186 : 14 , 207 : 8 **spend** [2] - 93 : 20 , 184 : 9 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 33

**spent** [9] - 19:4 , 21 :4 , 30 : 20 , 94 : 22 , 148 : 2 , 158 : 1 , 161 : 16 , 190 : 18 , 245: 11 **spirit** [ 1 ] - 59 : 3 **spot** [3] - 49 :21 , 96 : 7 , 97: 10 **spreadsheets** [ 1 ] - 120 : 7 **Square** [ 1 ] - 209: 7 **ss** [1 ] - 250 : 2 **St** [1 ] - 2 : 10 **staff** [2] - 40 : 20 , 165 : 23 **stakeholder** [ 1 ] - 141 : 5 **stakeholders** [4] - 23: 25, 33 : 24, 154 :4 , 156 : 12 **stamp** [2] - 134 : 14 **stance** [ 1 ] - 226 : 13 **stand** [4] - 36 : 19, 86 : 18, 144 : 13 , 191 : 10 **Standards** [ 1 ] - 180 : 13 **standards** [5] - 58: 20, 58 : 22 , 97 : 15 , 162 : 7, 162 : 8 **standpoint** [1 ] - 165 : 1 **start** [ 13] - 19 :6 , 50 : 12 , 66 : 11 , 74 : 10 , 88: 10, 110 : 7, 132 :21 , 138 : 13 , 156: 1 , 162 : 14 , 164 : 25 , 167 : 10 , 229: 21 **start -** **up** [ 1 ] - 74 : 10 **started** [4] - 31 : 8 , 39: 5 , 109 : 24, 186 :23 **starting** [4] - 10 : 9 , 52 : 10, 118 : 20 , 226: 8 **STATE** [3] - 1 : 1 , 1 :4, 250 : 1 **state** [ 136] - 15: 2 , 15: 14, 16 : 25, 19 : 17 , 20 : 18, 21 : 9 , 21 : 13, 21 : 15, 21 : 21 , 22 : 3, 22 : 7 , 23: 17 , 23: 18, 23: 22 , 25 : 15, 25 : 24 , 26 : 1 , 26 : 12 , 26 : 20, 27: 10, 27 : 15, 27 : 17 , 27: 20, 28 : 9 , 28: 15, 30 : 19, 32 : 15, 33 : 21 , 34 : 3 , 34 : 12 , 34 : 14, 35:4 , 36 : 9 , 36 : 10 , 36 : 18, 37 : 21 , 40 :4, 43: 12 , 45 : 10, 46 : 5, 46 : 20, 47 :4 , 47: 21 , 51 : 18, 52 : 7 , 56 : 10, 56 : 23, 57 : 18, 57 : 25 ,58: 8 , 67: 9 , 72 : 8 ,

72 : 18, 73 : 12 , 73 : 19 , 73: 20, 74 : 16, 75 : 9, 77: 7 , 81 : 19 , 85: 1 , 85: 3 , 85: 9 , 85 : 12 , 85: 17, 85 : 24, 86 :4, 86 : 8 , 88: 16 , 92 : 1 , 92 : 25, 93 : 25, 95 : 21 , 99: 10, 100 : 10 , 100 : 23 , 101 : 19 , 102 : 5, 102 : 7, 103 : 12 , 103 : 15 , 104 : 7 , 104 : 16 , 105: 9 , 106 : 25 , 107: 7 , 109: 6 , 125 : 20 , 127: 9 , 131 : 23 , 134 : 11 , 135 : 9, 136 : 9, 136 : 15 , 136 : 21 , 136 : 24 , 137 : 2 , 137 : 8, 137 : 15 , 137 : 17 , 138:4 , 139 : 24 , 143: 9 , 146 : 11 , 147: 17 , 150 : 14 , 150 : 24 , 153 : 24 , 155: 5 , 157 : 13 , 164 : 14 , 167 : 18 , 167: 21 , 171 :4, 173 : 3, 180 :22 , 195 : 6, 195 : 9, 207 :6 , 210 : 2 , 210 : 25 , 211 : 11 , 211 : 15 , 211 : 23 , 212 : 1 , 224 : 15 , 227: 8 , 228: 7 , 228 : 13 , 232 : 12 , 233 :4, 233 : 8, 233 :21 , 234 : 17 **State** [77] - 7 : 11 , 10 : 3 , 10 : 21 , 15: 17, 16 : 7 , 16 : 14 , 18: 13, 18: 17, 19 : 17, 21 : 21 , 23: 1 , 23: 6 , 23 : 9 , 24 : 15, 27 : 2 , 27: 6 , 27: 22 , 28 : 2 , 28:4 , 31 : 13, 31 : 14, 32 : 19 , 32 : 24, 33 : 18, 33 : 19 , 36 : 1 , 38: 10 , 38: 11 , 38: 16, 39 : 8 , 39: 14, 39: 24, 47 : 18, 52 : 16 , 77: 18, 81 :4 , 93: 5 , 94 : 14, 96 : 2 , 98: 3 , 98: 8 , 99: 15 , 100 : 2 , 103 : 19 , 104 : 21 , 107 : 22 , 126 : 18 , 132 : 8, 134 : 16 , 140 : 21 , 140 : 22 , 142 : 6, 142 : 24 , 144 : 20 , 145: 19 , 150 : 11 , 152 : 5 , 152 : 18 , 158: 21 , 160 : 8, 161 : 7, 163 : 19 , 172 : 7, 172 : 13 , 181 : 19 , 182 : 2 , 195 : 23 , 204 : 20 , 208 : 2 , 210 : 3, 210 : 8 , 210 : 16 , 226 : 19 , 226 : 25 , 227: 21 , 232 : 6, 234 : 20 **state '** **s** [ 11 ] - 19: 24, 20 : 9 , 20 : 11 , 20 : 14, 25: 20, 27 : 13, 31 :4, 35: 12 , 50 : 17, 51 : 25 , 151 : 18 **state -** **approved** [ 1 ] - 164 : 14 **state -** **driven** [2] - 23: 18, 36 : 18 **state -** **of -** **the -** **art** [ 1 ] - 180 : 22 **statement** [24] - 10 : 12 , 20 : 15, 128 :25 , 167 : 5, 171 : 25 , 200 : 24 , 217: 20 , 217 : 21 , 221 : 24 , 230 :4, 230 : 16 , 230 : 18 , 235: 7 , 237: 3 , 238 : 6, 242 : 17 , 243: 5 , 243 : 8, 247 : 6, 247 : 11 , 248 : 6, 248 : 9, 248 : 17 , 248 : 20 **Statement** [2] - 8 :6 , 247 : 8 **statements** [7] - 36 :4 , 47: 24 , 120 : 2 , 153 : 13 , 224 : 1 , 229 : 20 , 242 : 19 **states** [ 16] - 22 : 10 , 38: 13, 40 : 8 , 48: 5 , 57:4 , 57: 8 , 58 :21 , 70 : 18, 70 : 21 , 70 : 23 , 116 : 25 , 126 : 9 , 126 : 13 , 126 : 17 , 153 : 18 , 156 : 5 **States** [3] - 40 : 5 , 127 : 17 , 196 : 15 **states '**  [ 1 ] - 58 : 24 **statewide** [4] - 46 : 21 , 46 : 22 , 104 : 18 , 153 : 15 **station** [5] - 29 : 20, 41 : 18, 96 : 25, 99 : 1 , 108 : 11 **STATION** [1 ] - 1 : 5 **Station** [76] - 7: 14 , 10 : 6 , 10 : 22 , 15: 1 , 15: 10, 15 : 12 , 15 : 18 , 19: 20, 20 : 5 , 22 : 12 , 25: 6 , 25: 13 , 29: 10, 29: 12 , 30 : 5 , 30 : 9 , 30 : 16, 33 : 16, 68 : 1 , 70 : 11 , 71 : 16, 73 : 22 , 77: 23, 79 : 3 , 81 : 5 , 82 : 9 , 93: 6 , 96 : 13 , 104 : 22 , 107: 5 , 107 : 16 , 108: 1 , 109: 7 , 117 : 11 , 117: 23 , 127 : 5, 129 : 19 , 132 : 9 , 133 : 3, 133 : 13 , 133 : 22 , 134 : 22 , 135 :4, 137 : 7, 137 : 11 , 140 : 20 , 140 : 22 , 140 : 24 , 141 : 24 , 142 : 7, 142 : 13 , 142 : 16 , 142 : 25 , 143 : 2 , 144 : 21 , 145 : 20 , 150 : 12 , 151 : 1 , 156 : 2 , 164 : 10 , 165 : 14 , 166 : 22 , 169 : 12 , 175: 8 , 183 : 15 , 197: 8 , 197 : 12 , 203: 22 , 210 : 6, 225 : 17 , 225 : 23 , 226 : 1 , 226 : 20 , 227: 1 , 228: 8 , 239 : 15 **stations** [3] - 89 : 9, 102 : 20 , 160 : 25 **statute** [ 1 ] - 58: 20 **statutory** [2] - 58: 25, 232 : 9 **stay** [5] - 37 : 9, 66 : 2 , 108 : 2 , 215 : 8, 239 :2 **stealth** [ 1 ] - 89 : 8 **steel** [ 1 ] - 181 : 15 **Step** [5] - 70 : 18 , 70 : 21 , 70 : 23, 71 : 21 , 71 : 24 **step** [20] - 40 : 17 , 41 : 10, 41 : 13, 71 : 3, 71 : 10, 71 : 15, 71 : 16 , 72 :4 , 73: 8 , 137: 18, 165 : 5, 166 : 9, 175 :23 , 176 : 9, 179 : 22 , 179 : 23 , 180 : 10 , 241 : 11 **stepped** [ 1 ] - 151 : 8 **stepping** [ 1 ] - 40 :20 **steps** [3] - 70 : 13, 70 : 16, 71 : 19 **Steve** [1 ] - 95 :23 **STEVE** [4] - 4 : 18 , 88: 7 , 95: 17 , 95: 24 **stew** [ 1 ] - 138 : 19 **still** [ 18] - 15 :24 , 16 : 9 , 27: 17 , 51 : 5 , 89: 14, 89 : 22 , 90 :4, 90 : 12 , 90 : 21 , 93 : 19 , 126 :4, 137 : 12 , 149 : 11 , 162 : 1 , 213 : 22 , 228: 23 , 243 : 13 , 248: 8 **stipulate** [1 ] - 221 : 19 **stipulation** [ 1 ] - 221 : 25 **stole** [ 1 ] - 102 : 16 **Stone** [ 1 ] - 198: 8 **stone '** **s** [ 1 ] - 93 : 10 **stop** [2] - 155: 23, 162 : 18 **stored** [ 1 ] - 219: 24 **strategic** [ 1 ] - 195 : 14 **strategy** [4] - 59 : 9, 168 : 5, 199 : 18 , 205:4 **STRATVERT** [1 ] - 2 : 14 **stream** [3] - 79: 16 , 79: 19, 161 : 1 **strengths** [ 1 ] - 107 : 13 **strike** [4] - 27: 25 , 107 : 10 , 200 : 15 , 209 : 7 **stringent** [ 1 ] - 180 : 22 **strong** [5] - 24 : 25 , 27: 18, 58 : 23, 96 : 19 , 140 : 13 **strongest** [2] - 101 : 6, 235 : 3 **strongly** [3] - 54 : 24 , 210 : 8, 228 : 9 **structural** [1 ] - 181 : 14 **structure** [3] - 46 : 25 , 187 : 23 , 197: 12 **struggled** [ 1 ] - 98 : 19 **struggling** [ 1 ] - 192 : 2 **student** [ 1 ] - 96 : 13 **studied** [ 1 ] - 127 : 19 **studies** [6] - 67 : 19 , 169 :4, 171 : 17 , 208: 8 , 219 : 3, 244 : 11 **stuff** [9] - 93 : 12 , 93: 17, 94 : 1 , 94 : 6 , 157 : 2 , 159 : 17 , 160 : 12 , 160 : 20 , 161 : 3 **styled** [1 ] - 39 : 14 **subcontractors** [ 1 ] - 133 : 24 **subject** [ 10] - 11 : 13, 11 : 15, 16 : 12 , 49 : 16 , 70 : 17, 70 : 20, 166 : 3 , 221 : 5, 222 : 10 , 222 : 21 **subjects** [2] - 231 : 20 , 242 : 3 **submission** [ 1 ] - 21 : 1 **submit** [8] - 21 : 3 , 21 : 20, 23 : 6 , 41 : 23, 42 : 3 , 70 : 6 , 78 : 10 , 82 : 15 **submittal** [18] - 20 : 18, 20 : 19, 20 : 21 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 34

22 : 8 , 22 : 14 , 38: 16, 64 :4 , 68:4 , 68 :6 , 68: 13, 72 : 2 , 72 : 5 , 72 : 12 , 72 : 19, 73 : 10 , 182 : 17 , 192 : 25 **submittals** [ 1 ] - 68:4 **submitted** [26] - 7 : 17 , 7 : 19 , 19 : 17 , 21 : 18, 22 : 3 , 22 : 11 , 22 : 18, 23 : 20, 26 : 21 , 27: 6 , 27: 23 , 38: 18, 38: 19, 42 : 2 , 52 : 6 , 52 : 8 , 73: 12 , 83: 16, 166 : 11 , 171 : 22 , 193 : 14 , 193: 24 , 195 : 25 , 207: 21 , 231 : 3, 231 : 5 **Submitted** [4] - 8 : 11 , 8 : 16 , 8 : 22 , 9 : 5 **submitting** [2] - 45: 9 , 45: 11 **substance** [ 1 ] - 219 : 7 **substantial** [2] - 99: 22 , 142 : 12 **substantially** [3] - 72 : 17, 73 : 9 , 80 : 16 **substantive** [3] - 55: 2 , 55: 22 , 235 :4 **successful** [3] - 41 : 21 , 56 : 24, 243 : 11 **successfully** [ 1 ] - 34 : 7 **suffering** [2] - 134 : 7, 134 : 14 **sufficient** [4] - 232 : 18 , 241 : 7 , 247 : 19 , 248: 25 **suggest** [3] - 102 : 2 , 187 : 5, 222 : 19 **suggested** [2] - 239 : 17 , 241 : 11 **suggesting** [ 1 ] - 198 : 16 **suing** [ 1 ] - 36 : 16 **suit** [5] - 22 :20 , 22 : 23, 23 : 2 , 39: 13, 102 : 22 **Suite** [2] - 2 : 10 , 2 : 16 **suits** [2] - 58: 1 , 101 : 6 **sulfur** [5] - 15 : 13 , 33: 13, 124 : 2 , 136 :22 , 211 : 16 **summarize** [7] - 73: 18, 168 : 12 , 172 : 3 , 173 : 21 , 182 : 1 , 195 : 18 , 207: 24 **summarized** [2] - 242 : 11 , 242 : 13**summary** [7] - 17 :2 ,

120 : 3, 171 : 25 , 175: 8 , 179 : 8, 202 : 21 , 213: 15 **summer** [3] - 89: 3 , 107 : 25 , 108: 19 **superior** [6] - 33 : 18 , 150 : 14 , 211 : 13 , 233 : 9, 234 : 1 , 242 :23 **superiority** [ 1 ] - 233 :4 **superscript** [ 1 ] - 196 : 7 **supersede** [2] - 41 : 24, 42 : 1 **supervising** [ 1 ] - 173 : 15 **supplied** [2] - 72 : 6 , 176 : 18 **supplier** [ 1 ] - 225 : 18 **supplies** [ 1 ] - 93: 16 **supply** [4] - 144 : 2 , 200 : 7, 213 : 16 , 230 : 17 **support** [54] - 18: 13, 18: 17, 22 : 16, 34 : 21 , 34 : 22 , 34 : 23, 34 : 24 , 48: 16, 58 : 25, 91 : 23 , 93: 5 , 93: 7 , 95 : 13 , 95: 14, 102 : 5, 102 :21 , 103 : 19 , 104 : 20 , 105 : 12 , 105: 18 , 107 : 7, 109 : 6, 132 : 8 , 132 : 19 , 142 : 5 , 142 : 23 , 143: 2 , 144 : 19 , 145: 2 , 145 : 18 , 152 : 5 , 152 : 18 , 155: 8 , 157: 6 , 157 : 7, 163 : 19 , 169:4 , 175 : 9, 176 : 19 , 193 : 21 , 194 : 1 , 226 : 24 , 228: 6 , 228: 8 , 228 : 13 , 228: 19 , 237 : 20 , 240 : 24 , 241 : 8, 243 : 24 , 245:4 , 246 : 5 **Support** [3] - 8 : 13 , 8 : 17 , 9 : 7 **supported** [3] - 94 : 13, 168 : 19 , 203: 3 **supporter** [ 1 ] - 58 : 24 **supporting** [ 1 ] - 161 : 12 **supportive** [4] - 136 : 8, 137 : 17 , 193 : 11 , 193: 14 **supports** [8] - 16 : 25, 21 : 15, 35 : 13, 132 : 14 , 182 : 13 , 210 : 8 , 210 : 15 , 212 : 1 **supposedly** [1 ] - 89: 5 **surely** [ 1 ] - 39 : 6 **surface** [ 1 ] - 99: 19 **surprised** [ 1 ] - 240 : 18 **susceptible** [1 ] - 206 : 5 **suspected** [ 1 ] - 229 : 3 **sustaining** [ 1 ] - 140 : 13 **sw aps**  [1 ] - 200 : 18 **sw ear**  [2] - 51 : 9 , 167 : 7 **sw itch**  [ 1 ] - 99 : 18 **sw itching**  [ 1 ] - 119 : 20 **sw orn**  [38] - 16 : 21 , 17: 13, 18 : 2 , 67: 1 , 67: 5 , 77: 2 , 81 : 14 , 87: 22 , 88 : 8 , 88: 13, 92 : 22 , 95 : 18, 100 : 7 , 104 : 2 , 104 :4, 106 :22 , 110 : 3, 131 : 20 , 139 : 19 , 139: 21 , 143 : 6, 146 : 2 , 149 :20 , 150 : 2 , 151 : 22 , 155: 2 , 157 : 10 , 158: 18 , 167 : 9, 167 : 13 , 172 : 24 , 194 : 19 , 195 : 2 , 206 : 24 , 207: 2 , 224 : 12 , 227: 5 , 250 : 9 **system** [3] - 115 : 18, 152 : 9, 199 : 10 **systems** [ 1 ] - 103 : 13 

## T

**tab** [ 1 ] - 90 : 25 **Table** [ 12] - 85: 17, 85: 20, 86 : 6 , 86 : 10, 114 : 22 , 115: 3 , 118 : 20 , 170 : 11 , 170 : 14 , 196 : 6 , 196 : 10 , 200 : 3 **table** [ 14] - 47 : 19 , 85: 22 , 88 : 2 , 88: 11 , 115 : 15 , 116 : 6 , 116 : 11 , 117: 9 , 117 : 15 , 117: 17 , 118 : 8, 183 : 2 , 183 :24 , 211 : 10 **tacos** [ 1 ] - 138 : 19 **tag** [ 1 ] - 210 : 12 **talks** [ 1 ] - 201 :2 **targeted** [1 ] - 79: 21 **task** [3] - 155 : 14 , 156 : 22 , 228: 16 **taught** [1 ] - 144 : 6 **Tax** [ 1 ] - 201 : 10 **tax** [2] - 201 : 24, 201 : 25 **taxes** [2] - 93 : 22 , 201 : 15 **taxpayers** [3] - 23: 13, 134 : 8, 148 : 5 **Taylor** [2] - 34 : 23 , 156 : 16 **Taylor '** **s** [ 1 ] - 157 :4 **team** [3] - 179 : 24 , 179 : 25 , 229: 11 **tear** [ 1 ] - 147 :20 **Tec** [ 1 ] - 7: 22 **Technical** [1 ] - 108 : 20 **technical** [29] - 12 : 8 , 12 : 10, 13 : 15, 14 : 3, 17: 1 , 17: 16 , 24 : 7 , 24 : 8 , 32 : 25 , 33: 23, 37: 8 , 45: 7 , 59 : 16 , 67: 13, 68 : 3 , 68: 19, 78: 3 , 81 : 11 , 111 : 12 , 120 : 1 , 120 : 3, 130 : 5 , 155 : 17 , 157: 2 , 170 : 5 , 176 : 18 , 210 : 18 , 242 :4, 245 : 8 **technically** [2] - 70 : 22 , 71 : 21 **technologies** [12] - 30 : 22 , 70 : 19, 70 : 22 , 71 : 13, 71 : 20, 71 : 22 , 84 : 5 , 84 : 14 , 141 :4, 173 : 16 , 173: 20 , 175 : 20 **technology** [40] - 19: 23, 20 : 7 , 20 : 8 , 29: 16, 68 : 25, 71 : 2 , 71 : 5 , 71 : 6 , 71 : 9 , 73 : 7, 79: 2 , 80 :4 , 82 : 13 , 84 : 10, 101 : 25 , 119 : 17 , 120 : 10 , 129 : 18 , 129: 24 , 130 :4, 130 : 6, 133 :2 , 134 : 21 , 140 : 25 , 141 : 15 , 142 : 11 , 169 : 8, 176 : 3, 178 : 19 , 178 : 24 , 179: 18 , 179 : 22 , 180 : 7 , 180 : 22 , 182 : 14 , 193 : 2 , 211 : 2 , 241 : 17 , 241 : 20 , 245: 18 **Technology** [11 ] - 10 :4 , 10 : 22 , 14 : 25, 19: 19, 165 : 13 , 168 : 22 , 174 : 1 , 232 : 13 , 232 : 19 , 239 : 13 , 245: 11 **TECHNOLOGY** [1 ] - 1 : 5 **Ted** [3] - 7 :21 , 13 : 14 , 77: 8 **TED** [5] - 4 : 10, 5:4 , 17: 12 , 77 : 1 , 110 : 2 **tedious** [ 1 ] - 228 : 16 **temper** [1 ] - 242 : 19 **temporary** [ 1 ] - 133 : 20 **ten** [ 1 ] - 159: 14 **tend** [1 ] - 190 : 23 **tendency** [ 1 ] - 188 : 23 **tender** [3] - 184 : 21 , 199 : 21 , 222 : 24 **Tennessee** [1 ] - 82 :4 **tentative** [5] - 16 : 2 , 68: 7 , 90 : 1 , 90 : 3 , 105 : 7 **Tenth** [20] - 15 :25 , 21 : 25, 23 : 10, 26 : 22 , 26 : 24, 27 : 1 , 27:4 , 27: 19, 27 : 25, 42 : 24 , 43: 2 , 43: 22 , 44 : 25, 45: 5 , 59: 11 , 64 : 7 , 153 :4, 166 : 17 , 186 : 5 , 243 : 11 **tenure** [ 1 ] - 196 : 15 **term** [ 17] - 25 :21 , 29: 11 , 29 : 21 , 30 : 16 , 52 : 12 , 78 : 7 , 80 : 11 , 80 : 12 , 80 : 14, 98 : 11 , 99:4 , 114 : 12 , 196 : 15 , 200 : 19 , 206: 11 , 213 : 9, 235 :4 **Term** [78] - 7: 9 , 43 : 7 , 43: 24, 44 : 15, 45 : 15 , 45: 24, 46 : 3 , 46 : 12 , 47: 8 , 47: 16 , 48: 2 , 48: 17, 48 : 19, 49 : 1 , 50 : 25, 52 : 11 , 52 : 16 , 53: 1 , 54 : 3 , 54 : 9 , 54 : 16, 54 : 23, 54 : 25 , 56 : 8 , 56 : 22 , 64 : 6 , 64 : 8 , 64 : 15 , 64 : 18, 65: 1 , 65: 2 , 65 : 12 , 68: 9 , 68: 10 , 68: 16, 68: 19, 68 : 23, 69 : 1 , 72 : 1 , 78: 8 , 78 :23 , 79: 1 , 79: 8 , 80 : 19 , 81 : 7 , 111 : 21 , 112 :4 , 113 : 2 , 114 :4, 122 : 14 , 122 : 16 , 123: 1 , 123: 6 , 165 : 7, 166 : 2 , 166 : 10 , 175 : 11 , 177:4 , 186 :4 , 186 : 11 , 186: 15 , 186 : 17 , 187: 12 , 188 : 9, 203 : 9, 203 : 16 , 204 : 17 , 212 : 24 , 222 : 8, 222 : 17 , 235 : 17 , 235: 21 , 236 : 12 , 236: 17 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 35

239 : 20 , 240 : 20 , 240 : 22 **terms** [34] - 38: 16, 54 : 13, 62 : 20, 64 : 3, 65: 1 , 68: 7 , 68 : 17 , 71 : 25, 78 : 24, 79 : 11 , 96 : 11 , 97 : 14, 97 : 22 , 99: 19, 124 : 25 , 153 : 20 , 154 : 18 , 163 : 24 , 164 : 15 , 164 : 24 , 166: 10 , 179 : 12 , 186: 20 , 189 : 19 , 210 : 24 , 211 : 8, 211 : 13 , 233: 8 , 233 : 12 , 235: 1 , 244 : 9 , 244 : 22 , 246: 6 **terrible** [4] - 36 : 5, 36 : 7 , 46 : 20 , 47: 2 **test** [3] - 79 : 18 , 79: 24, 160 : 18 **tested** [2] - 129 : 18 , 129 : 24 **testified** [31 ] - 18: 3 , 34 : 18, 36 : 6 , 67: 6 , 70 : 10, 77 : 3 , 80 : 22 , 81 : 15, 88 : 14, 92 : 23 , 95: 19, 100 : 8, 104 : 5 , 106 : 23 , 110 :4 , 127 : 11 , 131 : 21 , 139 : 22 , 143: 7 , 146: 3 , 150 : 3, 151 : 23 , 155: 3 , 157 : 11 , 158: 19 , 167 : 14 , 172 : 15 , 195 : 3, 207 : 3, 224 : 13 , 227 : 6 **testify** [8] - 18 : 11 , 28: 17, 28 : 20, 33 : 3, 33: 12 , 33 : 21 , 38 : 6, 73: 10 **testifying** [3] - 28: 18, 57: 3 , 168 : 9 **testimony** [90] - 11 : 12 , 11 : 13, 11 : 15 , 12 : 8 , 12 : 10 , 12 : 14, 14 : 14, 17 : 3 , 17: 9 , 18: 18, 18 : 19, 28 : 18 , 33: 1 , 60 : 21 , 61 : 2 , 61 : 7 , 64 : 25 , 69:4 , 69: 11 , 69 : 13, 69 : 14 , 69: 15, 70 : 10, 78 : 11 , 78: 16, 78 : 18, 78 : 21 , 82 : 15, 82 : 22 , 82 : 24 , 83: 6 , 111 : 9 , 128 : 17 , 149 : 5, 149 : 6, 162 : 15 , 164 : 12 , 169: 15 , 169 : 19 , 169: 24 , 170 : 7, 170 : 11 , 170 : 24 , 171 : 21 , 172 : 19 , 172 : 23 , 172 : 24 , 174 : 7 ,174 : 11 , 174 : 19 ,

175 : 5, 180 :4, 182 : 19 , 182 : 22 , 183: 2 , 183 : 25 , 195: 25 , 196 :4, 196 : 19 , 197:4 , 197 : 6, 200 : 2 , 204 :4 , 204 : 7, 204 : 14 , 205 : 13 , 205: 15 , 207 : 22 , 208: 17 , 208 : 21 , 209: 6 , 209 : 11 , 209: 21 , 211 : 10 , 213: 25 , 215 : 19 , 218: 5 , 219 : 21 , 223: 23 , 231 : 22 , 233: 11 , 233 : 17 , 242 : 9 , 249: 3 , 249 :4, 250 : 8, 250 : 10 , 250 : 11 **TESTIMONY** [ 18] - 18:4 , 88: 15 , 92 : 24, 95: 20, 100 : 9, 104 :6 , 106 : 24 , 131 : 22 , 139 : 23 , 143: 8 , 146 :4 , 150 :4, 151 : 24 , 155:4 , 157 : 12 , 158: 20 , 224 : 14 , 227: 7 **Testimony** [25] - 4 : 5 , 4 : 15 , 4 : 17 , 4 : 19 , 4 : 21 , 4 :23 , 4 : 25 , 5 : 9, 5 : 11 , 5 : 13 , 5 : 15 , 5 : 17 , 5: 19, 5 :21 , 5 : 23 , 5 : 25 , 6 : 15, 6 : 17 , 7 : 21 , 7 : 23 , 8:4 , 8 : 10 , 8 : 15 , 8 : 20 , 9:4 **testing** [ 14] - 68 :24 , 78: 22 , 78 : 25, 79 : 7, 79: 12 , 79 : 13, 79 : 15 , 79: 22 , 79 : 25, 80 : 3, 80 : 9 , 80 : 10 , 114 : 10 , 128 : 22 **Texas** [3] - 208 : 6 , 208 : 13 , 208: 14 **Texas -** **New** [1 ] - 208 : 13 **THE** [23] - 1 :4 , 1 :4 , 1 : 5 , 36 : 22 , 88 : 16 , 92 : 25, 95 : 21 , 100 : 10 , 104 : 7, 106 : 25 , 110 : 12 , 131 : 23 , 139 : 24 , 143: 9 , 150 : 5 , 155 : 5, 157 : 13 , 158 : 21 , 185: 2 , 212 : 13 , 224 : 15 , 227 : 8, 227 : 13 **theirs** [1 ] - 38 : 18 **theme** [ 1 ] - 50 : 24 **themselves** [ 1 ] - 161 : 17 **therefore** [4] - 152 : 15 , 210 : 6 , 212 : 6 , 243 : 24 **they '** **ve** [6] - 55 : 12 , 55: 13, 56 : 23, 93 : 24 , 94 :4 , 148 : 15 **thinking** [ 1 ] - 87 : 3 **third** [7] - 79 : 22 , 80 : 8 , 80 : 10 , 161 : 9, 173 : 1 , 181 :4, 210 :22 **thoughts** [ 1 ] - 230 : 1 **thousand** [ 1 ] - 170 : 16 **threat** [ 1 ] - 136 : 18 **three** [36] - 13: 3 , 13: 15, 17 : 1 , 20 : 22 , 20 : 23, 21 : 11 , 22 : 8, 24 : 12 , 27 : 15, 38 : 20 , 53: 8 , 79: 13 , 83: 20, 87: 14, 100 : 19 , 111 : 9 , 118 : 3, 118 : 8, 120 : 3 , 122 : 19 , 139: 2 , 140 : 17 , 178: 2 , 179 : 11 , 179: 23 , 180 : 10 , 188: 2 , 196 : 5 , 208 : 22 , 210 : 1 , 210 : 16 , 228: 22 , 232 : 25 , 240 : 19 , 241 : 16 , 242 :4 **three -** **and -** **a -** **half** [6] - 20 : 22 , 20 : 23, 21 : 11 , 22 : 8 , 27: 15 , 38: 20 **three -** **page** [2] - 120 : 3, 188 : 2 **three -** **step** [ 1 ] - 180 : 10 **three -** **time** [ 1 ] - 100 : 19 **three -** **year** [2] - 118 : 3, 178 : 2 **threshold** [ 1 ] - 178 :4 **throughout** [6] - 36 : 15, 103 : 14 , 104 : 15 , 133: 12 , 189 : 11 , 233: 1 **throughput** [1 ] - 199 : 16 **throw** [ 1 ] - 93 : 10 **thrown** [ 1 ] - 197: 24 **tie** [ 1 ] - 53 : 7 **tightening** [ 1 ] - 124 : 15 **timeline** [1 ] - 212 : 23 **timely** [4] - 12 : 13 , 21 : 20, 166 : 22 , 237: 18 **timing** [3] - 20 : 19, 123 : 1 , 166 : 13 **TI MO** **THY** [1 ] - 2 : 5 **tinker** [3] - 164 : 19, 193 : 18 , 241 : 1 **tired** [ 1 ] - 229 :25 **title** [7] - 167: 22 , 171 : 9, 173 : 8, 174 : 15 , 195 : 10 , 207: 11 , 215 : 20 **TNMP** [1 ] - 207 : 17 **TO** [ 1 ] - 1 :4 **today** [33] - 13 : 12 , 13: 25, 15 : 16, 16 : 5, 18: 9 , 35: 1 , 66 : 5 , 69: 15, 78 : 19, 83 : 6, 100 :4, 124 : 9, 132 : 8 , 144 : 18 , 162 : 2 , 165 : 18 , 174 : 20 , 183 : 19 , 186 : 2 , 193: 5 , 193 : 24 , 196 : 19 , 198 : 5, 211 : 15 , 220 : 7 , 225 :4, 226 : 22 , 228 : 15 , 231 : 22 , 239 : 19 , 242 : 19 , 247 : 14 , 247: 24 **together** [2] - 136 : 12 , 230 : 1 **Tom** [4] - 34 : 23, 35: 7 , 156 : 16, 157 :4 **tomorrow** [ 1 ] - 66 : 5 **ton** [ 10] - 170 : 8 , 170 : 10 , 176 : 2 , 178 : 14 , 183: 12 , 183 : 16 , 183: 19 , 183 : 22 **tonight** [1 ] - 238 : 24 **tons** [14] - 74 : 1 , 74 : 5 , 74 : 6 , 118 : 22 , 119 : 13 , 119 : 16 , 119: 18 , 130 : 25 , 131 : 1 , 159 : 14 , 183: 5 , 183 : 11 , 196 : 11 , 196 : 13 **took** [8] - 26 :20 , 54 : 23, 169 : 6, 175 : 17 , 178 : 18 , 179: 15 , 182 : 24 , 237: 17 **tooth** [ 1 ] - 159 : 11 **top** [8] - 48 : 16 , 55: 13, 85 : 16, 93 : 24 , 153 : 2 , 181 : 14 , 184 : 11 , 225: 14 **top -** **down** [ 1 ] - 153 :2 **topic** [ 1 ] - 188 : 20 **Torrance** [ 1 ] - 91 : 22 **total** [8] - 120 : 7 , 125 : 14 , 160 : 14 , 181 : 25 , 190 : 25 , 198 : 9, 198 : 16 , 220 : 16 **totally** [ 1 ] - 147: 13 **touch** [3] - 19: 11 , 211 : 21 , 242 : 25 **tough** [2] - 96 : 7 , 97: 10 **touted** [1 ] - 48 :2 **towards** [6] - 105 : 17 , 126 : 17 , 145: 5 , 161 : 8 , 240 : 23 , 245: 20 **town** [3] - 65: 25 , 139 : 10 , 139: 15 **Townsend** [ 1 ] - 11 : 21 **toxic** [ 1 ] - 219 : 7 **track** [2] - 149: 12 , 187 : 2 **traded** [ 1 ] - 210 : 2 **trading** [1 ] - 15 : 13 **traditional** [ 1 ] - 144 : 7 **train** [3] - 135 :25 , 136 : 2 , 145 : 14 **Training** [3] - 108 : 19 , 142 : 20 , 145: 13 **training** [6] - 108 : 22 , 135 : 11 , 135: 17 , 135 : 24 , 151 : 15 , 204 : 18 **transcribed** [ 1 ] - 11 : 19 **TRANSCRIPT** [ 1 ] - 1 : 12 **transcript** [3] - 11 : 22 , 250 : 9, 250 : 11 **transcription** [2] - 193 : 23 , 239: 18 **transcriptive** [2] - 69: 20, 75 : 11 **transition** [2] - 28: 22 , 29 : 21 **transmission** [2] - 208 : 14 , 209: 24 **transparent** [ 1 ] - 217 : 14 **transpire** [1 ] - 160 : 12 **transport** [ 1 ] - 103 : 14 **transportation** [ 1 ] - 99: 5 **transported** [1 ] - 103 : 11 **travel** [1 ] - 107: 20 **treated** [1 ] - 80 : 8 **treatment** [6] - 129 : 15 , 205: 14 , 205 : 17 , 205: 21 , 206 : 1 , 206 :4 **tremendous** [2] - 161 : 15 , 211 : 3 **tremendously** [2] - 228 :4 **trend** [ 1 ] - 28 : 24 **trends** [ 1 ] - 29 :23 **trepidation** [ 1 ] - 193 : 17 **tribal** [ 1 ] - 102 : 13 **tribe** [2] - 100 :24 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 36

103 : 18 **tribes** [5] - 100 : 24, 101 : 5, 103 :4, 103 : 9 , 201 : 16 **trickle** [ 1 ] - 225 : 11 **trickle -** **down** [ 1 ] - 225 : 11 **tried** [2] - 192 :25 , 221 : 9 **true** [3] - 61 : 25, 111 : 11 , 250 : 11 **truly** [ 1 ] - 243: 19 **trust** [4] - 46 : 8 , 46 : 10, 47 : 10 **try** [ 16] - 36 : 17 , 37 : 9 , 57: 1 , 87: 13 , 100 : 18 , 107 : 10 , 117: 8 , 149:4 , 185 : 7, 188 : 6, 198 : 1 , 200 : 15 , 218: 10 , 230 : 1 , 230 : 2 , 232 : 1 **trying** [7] - 23 : 11 , 51 : 24, 54 : 17, 57 : 11 , 164 : 19 , 197: 25 , 206 : 2 **Tse** [2] - 107 :4, 109 :4 **turbine** [3] - 203: 21 , 204 : 3, 204 : 13 **turbines** [ 1 ] - 91 : 23 **turn** [7] - 46 : 15, 66 : 22 , 159 : 8, 162 :20 , 167 : 6, 223 : 6, 238 : 15 **turning** [ 1 ] - 70 : 9 **two** [76] - 19 :4 , 25: 18, 26 :4 , 27: 8 , 34 : 20, 52 : 17, 66 : 1 , 66 : 20, 72 : 9 , 72 : 10, 73: 20, 73 : 21 , 73 : 24 , 80 : 5 , 87: 16 , 87: 20, 87: 21 , 92 : 7 , 96 : 16, 103 : 23 , 105: 7 , 108 : 12 , 113: 22 , 114 : 2 , 114 : 6, 119 : 7 , 119 : 11 , 119: 12 , 119 : 17 , 120 : 2 , 120 :4 , 125 : 2 , 139 : 2 , 139 :4 , 139 : 13 , 142 : 13 , 142 : 17 , 143: 18 , 144 : 2 , 144 : 18 , 146 : 20 , 147: 25 , 151 : 7, 155 : 14 , 160 : 18 , 165: 20 , 176 : 6, 177 : 15 , 177 : 16 , 178: 15 , 178 : 25 , 179: 3 , 179 : 20 , 179: 23 , 184 : 13 , 185: 10 , 192 : 7, 210 : 25 , 213: 1 , 213 :4, 213 : 19 , 213 : 20 , 224 : 7 , 224 : 9 , 225 : 22 , 226: 2 , 228 : 10 , 232 : 15 ,241 : 15 , 242 : 1 , 249: 2 **two -** **and -** **a -** **half** [ 1 ] - 147 : 25 **two -** **page** [ 1 ] - 120 :4 **two -** **unit** [8] - 26 :4 , 34 : 20, 72 : 10, 73 : 21 , 73: 24, 108 : 12 , 142 : 17 , 176 : 6 **two -** **units** [2] - 73 : 20 , 179 : 3 **type** [7] - 33: 6 , 58: 24, 112 : 6, 122 : 8 , 200 : 20 , 206 :4 , 245: 21 **types** [7] - 91 :4, 178 : 8, 206 : 6, 206 : 7 , 214 : 16 , 214 : 22 **typically** [1 ] - 22 : 9 **typo** [ 1 ] - 170 : 8 **typographical** [5] - 69: 19, 69 : 21 , 75 : 11 , 193 : 23 , 239: 18 

## U

**Udall** [3] - 35 : 7 , 39: 3 , 48: 13 **ultimate** [4] - 18 : 17 , 21 : 17, 53 : 16, 75 : 9 **ultimately** [20] - 19: 25, 21 : 23, 25 : 15 , 27: 19, 27 : 23, 38 : 25 , 41 : 9 , 43: 3 , 44 :4 , 47 : 8, 48: 11 , 50 : 19, 50 : 21 , 53: 20, 54 : 1 , 62 : 6 , 65: 11 , 99 : 14, 166 : 5 , 221 : 18 **unanimous** [2] - 247 : 5, 249 : 6 **undefined** [1 ] - 105 : 22 **under** [23] - 11 : 12 , 22 : 10, 33 : 7 , 44 : 21 , 56 : 18, 60 : 22 , 69 : 15 , 78: 19, 79 : 8 , 83: 6 , 164 : 13 , 166 : 1 , 170 : 25 , 174 : 19 , 185 : 8, 186 : 2 , 196 : 14 , 196 : 20 , 199: 5 , 209 : 12 , 218: 13 , 231 : 12 , 241 : 21 **undercut** [ 1 ] - 191 : 3 **underestimating** [ 1 ]

- 188 :25 **undergo** [1 ] - 203 : 23 **underlying** [ 1 ] - 69: 24 **understandable** [ 1 ] - 54 : 13 **understood** [ 1 ] - 118 : 19 **undertaken** [ 1 ] - 237 : 16 **unemployment** [2] - 134 : 11 , 225: 10 **unfavorably** [ 1 ] - 64 : 10 **unfortunately** [3] - 20 : 19, 90 : 2 , 127 : 12 **unfunded** [ 1 ] - 244 : 8 **unit** [34] - 25: 9 , 26 :4 , 26 : 6 , 31 : 1 , 31 : 10 , 31 : 18, 32 : 3 , 34 : 20, 72 : 10, 73 : 21 , 73 : 24 , 81 : 22 , 81 : 24, 85 : 2 , 85: 5 , 85: 9 , 85 : 13 , 85: 18, 85 : 24, 86 :4, 90 : 13, 92 : 15, 108 : 12 , 129 :4, 137 : 22 , 142 : 17 , 144 : 12 , 170 : 15 , 176 : 6 , 177:4 , 200 : 9, 221 : 14 **Unit** [7] - 135: 19 , 137 : 7, 200 :4, 200 : 12 , 203 : 23 , 226 : 2 **United** [2] - 40 : 5 , 127 : 17 **units** [55] - 19 : 22 , 25: 13, 25 : 18, 30 : 18 , 31 : 2 , 31 : 6 , 31 : 16 , 32 : 11 , 41 : 18, 72 : 14 , 73: 20, 74 : 7 , 79:4 , 80 : 6 , 90 : 18 , 90 : 24, 92 : 8 , 105 : 8 , 105 : 11 , 108 : 2 , 119 : 7, 119 : 11 , 119 : 12 , 119: 17 , 123 : 7, 129 : 8, 129 : 10 , 133 : 2 , 134 : 22 , 137 : 12 , 140 : 23 , 141 :4, 142 : 13 , 146 : 16 , 146 : 20 , 146 : 21 , 146 : 24 , 151 : 7, 165 : 20 , 168 : 18 , 177: 16 , 179 : 3, 179 : 20 , 182 : 6 , 192 : 8, 200 :4, 206 : 5 , 210 : 25 , 211 : 2 , 213 : 20 , 213: 21 , 218 : 11 , 226 : 2 , 226 : 16 **Units** [32] - 61 : 22 , 68: 20, 68 : 22 , 72 : 3, 72 : 13, 72 : 21 , 73 : 5, 73: 7 , 74 : 20 , 79: 3 , 90 : 8 , 90 : 17 , 91 : 1 , 91 : 14, 98 : 17, 119 : 14 , 130 : 25 , 144 : 24 , 181 : 16 , 181 : 17 , 182 : 3, 201 : 17 , 202 : 18 , 214 :4 , 214 : 18 , 216 : 24 , 218 : 10 , 218: 19 , 219 : 13 , 219: 25 , 220 :4, 220 : 15 **University** [10] - 67: 19, 67 : 20, 82 : 3, 107 : 22 , 108: 21 , 172 : 8, 173 : 25 , 174 : 2 , 195 : 22 , 208: 3 **unless** [1 ] - 175: 25 **unlike** [3] - 25 :20 , 33: 9 , 34 : 12 **unlikely** [2] - 27 : 21 , 205 : 23 **unpalatable** [ 1 ] - 99: 13 **unrealistic** [ 1 ] - 123 : 3 **unreasonably** [1 ] - 11 : 8 **unreliable** [ 1 ] - 147 : 2 **unusual** [1 ] - 186 : 6 **unwise** [1 ] - 55: 18 **up** [68] - 13:4 , 23 : 13 , 23: 21 , 24 : 12 , 24 : 24 , 26 : 20, 36 : 18, 40 : 17 , 40 : 20, 58 : 21 , 65 : 23 , 74 : 10, 74 : 24, 87 : 5, 87: 15, 91 : 8 , 91 : 13, 92 : 16, 93 : 9 , 96 : 13, 98: 25, 99 : 6 , 100 : 16 , 103 : 24 , 107: 21 , 110 : 1 , 114 : 15 , 120 : 2 , 122 :4, 126 : 2 , 133 :4 , 138 : 13 , 151 : 8 , 154 :4 , 155 : 22 , 156 : 1 , 158: 5 , 159 : 5, 159 : 10 , 161 : 21 , 162 : 1 , 162 : 6 , 162 : 14 , 166 : 16 , 173 : 20 , 178: 23 , 183 : 10 , 184 : 9 , 184 : 15 , 186 : 18 , 187 :4, 188 : 1 , 188 : 17 , 189 : 5, 189 : 23 , 190 : 12 , 191 : 20 , 194 : 14 , 194 : 15 , 202 : 15 , 211 : 15 , 215 : 6, 217 : 3, 227 :20 , 235 : 24 , 246 : 2 **update** [2] - 68 : 5 , 71 : 18 **updated** [4] - 68 :4, 175 : 11 , 175: 14 , 177 : 3 **upgrade** [3] - 212 : 21 , 213 : 1 , 220 :4 **upgraded** [ 1 ] - 212 : 20 **upgrades** [ 1 ] - 113 : 22 **uphill** [ 1 ] - 22 : 6 **Upper** [3] - 142 :22 , 224 : 24 , 226: 23 **upset** [2] - 222 : 5, 242 : 18 **upstream** [ 1 ] - 160 : 25 **urge** [4] - 93 : 7, 95: 13, 164 : 18 , 165: 2 **US** [3] - 7 : 9 , 7: 17, 89: 18 **usage** [5] - 74 : 3, 74 : 11 , 150 : 16 , 211 : 24 , 211 : 25 **useful** [4] - 73 : 3, 73:4 , 232 : 22 , 241 : 18 **USEPA** [2] - 229 : 5 **users** [3] - 101 : 11 , 101 : 21 , 152 : 9 **uses** [ 1 ] - 80 : 1 **utilities** [4] - 147: 8 , 148 : 9, 210 : 1 **utility** [6] - 62 : 3, 62 : 14, 104 : 16 , 156 : 8 , 209 : 23 , 235: 10 **Utility** [3] - 104 : 14 , 104 : 19 , 215: 25 **utilized** [ 1 ] - 176 : 13 **utopian** [ 1 ] - 147 : 14 

## V

**vacuum** [ 1 ] - 58 : 11 **vagaries** [2] - 64 :21 , 64 : 22 **vague** [ 1 ] - 50 : 14 **vagueness** [ 1 ] - 244 : 9 **value** [ 18] - 85: 20 , 85: 23, 86 : 1 , 115 : 18 , 115 : 21 , 115: 23 , 115 : 25 , 116: 1 , 116 : 3 , 116 : 7, 116 : 10 , 118: 6 , 118 : 8, 118 : 22 , 119:4 , 231 : 19 , 242 : 2 , 243: 8 **values** [12] - 85 : 22 , 115 : 15 , 116:4 , 116 : 5 , 116 : 8, 116 : 11 , 118: 7 , 118 : 9, 118 : 10 , 118 : 12 , 140 : 14 **variable** [ 1 ] - 181 : 24 **variety** [ 1 ] - 24 : 7 **various** [7] - 56 : 5 , 84 :4 , 84 : 13 , 169 :4, 200 : 3, 231 : 23 , 231 : 25 **Veatch** [ 16] - 8 : 20, 14 : 5 , 167 : 23, 168 : 3 , 169 : 7, 171 : 11 , 172 : 9 , 175 : 17 , 175: 21 , 176 : 13 , 179: 15 , 182 : 24 , 190 : 19 , 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

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# 37

197 : 25 , 198: 8 , 211 : 10 **Veatch '** **s** [ 1 ] - 184 : 10 **vegetative** [ 1 ] - 96 : 14 **velocity** [ 1 ] - 181 : 7 **vendor** [1 ] - 72 :6 **vendor -** **supplied** [ 1 ]

- 72 : 6 **Verde** [8] - 92 : 5, 116 : 16 , 116: 17 , 116 : 22 , 117: 7 , 118: 5 , 126 : 8, 146 : 23 **Verdes** [1 ] - 92 : 7 **verification** [1 ] - 176 : 20 **verified** [ 1 ] - 83: 24 **version** [7] - 16 : 15, 83: 19, 125 : 5, 125 : 7 , 125 : 9, 125 : 11 , 231 :4 **versus** [4] - 126 : 8, 184 :4, 189 : 13 , 245: 19 **veterans** [ 1 ] - 228 : 1 **vi a**  [1 ] - 12 : 18 **vi ability**  [ 1 ] - 219 : 13 **vi able**  [3] - 77 :25 , 92 : 10, 113 : 13 **vi ce**  [ 10] - 14 : 1 , 14 : 2 , 173 : 10 , 173: 13 , 186 : 1 , 195 : 11 , 205 : 10 , 207: 13 , 208 : 9, 215 : 20 **vi ce** **- president**  [ 10] - 14 : 1 , 14 : 2 , 173: 10, 173 : 13 , 186: 1 , 195 : 11 , 205: 10 , 207 : 13 , 208: 9 , 215: 20 **vi ctims**  [2] - 166: 25 **vi ewable**  [ 1 ] - 11 : 24 **vi ews**  [1 ] - 141 : 10 **vi olated**  [1 ] - 59 : 3 **vi rtually**  [2] - 122 : 14, 233 : 22 **vi sibility**  [93] - 20 : 10, 25: 22 , 30 : 25, 32 : 21 , 32 : 25, 33 :4 , 33: 8 , 33: 11 , 71 : 6 , 71 : 10, 71 : 11 , 73 : 8 , 73: 11 , 73: 13, 74 : 18, 76 : 8, 82 : 10, 82 : 12 , 82 : 14 , 83: 24, 84 :4 , 84 : 10, 84 : 13, 84 : 15, 84 : 20 , 84 : 21 , 84 : 22 , 85 : 2 , 85:4 , 85: 11 , 85: 13, 85: 15, 85 : 19, 85 : 21 , 86 : 3 , 86 : 8 , 89 : 5 , 89 : 7, 89: 15, 89 : 22 , 105 : 15 , 105 : 23 , 105: 24 , 106 : 7, 106 : 10 , 115 : 19 , 116: 9 , 116 : 10 , 116: 12 ,116 : 22 , 117: 3 , 117: 5 ,

117 : 12 , 117: 13 , 117 : 18 , 125:4 , 125: 8 , 125 : 10 , 125: 12 , 125 : 21 , 125: 23 , 126 : 7, 136 : 17 , 136 : 23 , 137: 19 , 157 : 22 , 158: 6 , 158 : 13 , 164 : 5 , 164 : 21 , 168: 23 , 170 : 5, 176 : 9, 176 : 12 , 176 : 14 , 177: 6 , 177 : 10 , 177: 17 , 177 : 18 , 177: 20 , 178 : 12 , 178: 17 , 178 : 25 , 179: 2 , 183 : 24 , 211 : 5 , 231 : 18 , 233: 19 , 233 : 22 , 242 : 1 , 242 : 12 **vi sion**  [ 1 ] - 25 : 21 **Vitae** [1 ] - 7 : 22 **vo ice**  [ 1 ] - 148 :20 **vo id**  [1 ] - 123 : 23 **vo latile**  [2] - 74 :22 , 211 : 18 **VOLKERDING** [ 147] - 2 :4 , 10 : 8, 10 : 13 , 10 : 15, 13 : 18, 14 : 7, 14 : 15, 17 : 6 , 17: 11 , 17: 20, 36 : 23, 40 : 25 , 51 : 7 , 56 : 1 , 57 : 1 , 57 : 9, 59: 13, 59 : 18, 59 : 25 , 60 : 5 , 60 : 10 , 63: 2 , 63: 8 , 63: 16 , 63: 18, 65: 16, 65 : 20, 66 : 6, 66 : 9 , 66 : 19 , 70 : 8 , 76 : 24, 86 : 19, 86 : 22 , 87: 1 , 87: 9 , 87 : 12 , 87: 25, 88 : 10, 92 : 20 , 95: 16, 100 : 5, 103 :21 , 106 : 20 , 109: 9 , 109 : 12 , 109: 17 , 109 : 22 , 110 : 5 , 110 : 22 , 110 : 25 , 117 : 8, 117 : 13 , 117 : 17 , 118: 14 , 120 : 24 , 121 : 20 , 122 : 25 , 123: 11 , 123 : 14 , 123: 16 , 123 : 19 , 123: 22 , 124 : 1 , 124 : 13 , 124 : 16 , 124 : 20 , 125 : 16 , 125: 19 , 125 : 24 , 126 : 3 , 128: 1 , 128 : 5, 128 : 7, 128 : 10 , 130 : 11 , 130 : 17 , 131 : 2 , 131 :4, 131 : 11 , 131 : 16 , 138: 22 , 138 : 24 , 139: 8 , 139 : 17 , 143:4 , 145 : 22 , 148: 24 , 149 : 3, 149 : 9, 151 :20 , 154 : 25 , 157: 8 , 158 : 16 , 162 : 10 , 162 : 13 , 162 : 19 , 175 : 1 , 184 : 23 , 185: 7 , 185 : 9, 188 : 14 , 191 : 25 , 192 : 13 , 192 : 15 , 193: 6 , 194 :4 , 194 : 8, 194 : 11 , 196 : 25 , 199: 23 , 200 : 22 , 201 : 8 , 201 : 14 , 201 : 20 , 202 : 2 , 202 : 7, 206 : 16 , 209 : 16 , 212 : 11 , 212 : 14 , 212 : 16 , 213 : 6, 213 : 24 , 214 : 9 , 214 : 12 , 214 : 21 , 215 : 10 , 215: 13 , 223 :4, 223 : 13 , 223 : 16 , 223: 22 , 223 : 24 , 224 : 5 , 227: 3 , 229 : 18 , 230 : 21 , 236 : 8, 236 : 21 , 236 : 23 , 238:4 , 238: 9 , 242 : 16 , 247: 25 , 248 : 7, 249 : 8 **Volkerding** [9] - 10 : 17, 51 : 11 , 54 : 20 , 56 : 8 , 111 : 20, 121 : 11 , 122 : 9, 123 : 9, 130 :23 **vo lume**  [ 1 ] - 181 : 1 **vo luntarily**  [ 1 ] - 153 : 1 **vo lunteer**  [ 1 ] - 150 : 17 **vo te**  [2] - 247: 5 , 249 : 6 **vo ted**  [1 ] - 183 : 17 

## W

**wage** [ 1 ] - 93 : 25 **wages** [4] - 94 : 3 , 94 : 19, 94 : 20, 94 : 22 **wagging** [1 ] - 57: 18 **wait** [5] - 88: 5 , 90 : 7 , 147 : 12 , 147: 22 , 223 : 15 **waiting** [1 ] - 149: 11 **wake** [ 1 ] - 227: 20 **wake -** **up** [1 ] - 227 : 20 **wants** [2] - 215 : 8 , 239 : 25 **War** [ 1 ] - 25:4 **war** [2] - 89 : 8, 91 :4 **warm** [1 ] - 121 : 24 **warming** [2] - 88 : 22 , 91 : 3 **Washington** [4] - 100 : 25 , 101 : 5 , 160 : 3 , 228 : 21 **waste** [4] - 72 : 23 , 74 : 13, 233 : 13 , 233: 15 **watching** [ 1 ] - 228 : 25 **water** [10] - 25 : 23 , 33: 15, 72 : 22 , 74 : 11 , 106 : 12 , 136 : 25 , 150 : 16 , 173: 16 , 211 : 23 , 233: 14 **Waterflow** [2] - 93 : 9 , 158 : 24 **watershed** [1 ] - 150 : 17 **way s**  [4] - 30 : 21 , 31 : 9 , 58: 21 , 106 : 2 **web** [ 1 ] - 12 : 19 **Webster** [1 ] - 198 : 8 **week** [ 1 ] - 160 : 18 **weighed** [ 1 ] - 31 : 3 **weight** [ 1 ] - 241 :23 **welcome** [4] - 54 : 17 , 138 : 10 , 138: 17 , 143 : 13 **welfare** [2] - 231 : 18 , 242 : 1 **wells** [3] - 99 :6 , 99 : 7, 160 : 18 **west** [ 1 ] - 107 : 5 **Western** [3] - 126 : 23, 127 : 2 , 146 : 14 **whereas** [1 ] - 17 : 18 **whichever** [ 1 ] - 92 : 15 **whoa** [ 1 ] - 227 : 18 **whole** [ 16] - 15: 14, 16 : 14, 89 : 7 , 107 : 23 , 134 : 25 , 138: 14 , 154 : 15 , 155: 10 , 158 : 3, 161 : 9, 161 : 19 , 200 : 8, 200 : 21 , 214 : 2 , 222 : 9, 245 : 22 **wholeheartedly** [ 1 ] - 58: 5 **wholesale** [1 ] - 195 : 16 **wholly** [ 1 ] - 165 : 20 **wide** [2] - 84 : 17 , 178 : 22 **willing** [5] - 55: 11 , 62 : 21 , 87 : 19, 147 :20 , 221 : 23 **win** [ 1 ] - 153 : 3 **Wind** [2] - 91 : 15 , 91 : 18 **wind** [5] - 91 : 8 , 91 : 22 , 92 :4 , 147 : 1 , 147 : 21 **windmill** [2] - 91 : 18, 91 : 24 **windmills** [3] - 91 : 13, 91 : 16, 92 : 8 **Window** [ 1 ] - 138 : 14 **wise** [ 1 ] - 21 : 17 **wish** [4] - 12 : 2 , 21 : 18, 131 : 10 , 158: 9 **withdraw** [ 1 ] - 42 : 6 **witness** [ 11 ] - 17 : 18 , 63: 23, 67 : 2 , 76 : 21 , 81 : 10, 81 : 12 , 167 : 11 , 185 : 20 , 206: 14 , 206 : 18 , 206: 23 **WITNESSES** [3] - 4 : 3 , 5 : 3 , 6 : 3 **witnesses** [25] - 13: 7 , 13: 15 , 13: 25, 14 : 3 , 14 : 20 , 16 : 20, 17: 2 , 17: 5 , 17 : 16 , 33: 1 , 49: 21 , 67: 1 , 86 : 13, 110 : 8, 111 : 10 , 128 : 3, 167 : 6, 169 : 11 , 184 : 21 , 185:4 , 194 : 16 , 232 : 7 , 233 : 21 , 250 : 8 , 250 : 12 **witty** [ 1 ] - 51 : 9 **woman** [ 1 ] - 102 : 17 **won** [ 1 ] - 191 :4 **wonder** [2] - 150 : 21 , 189 : 6 **wondered** [2] - 228 : 24 , 229: 2 **wonderful** [ 1 ] - 132 : 3 **wondering** [2] - 102 : 15 , 201 : 5 **word** [5] - 42 : 1 , 122 : 15 , 126: 5 , 209: 1 , 209 : 3 **wording** [ 1 ] - 247 : 19 **words** [4] - 86 : 2 , 90 : 12 , 204 : 23 , 218: 12 **wordsmith** [ 1 ] - 64 : 17 **workers** [ 14] - 94 : 10 , 94 : 11 , 94 : 20, 132 : 19 , 132 : 21 , 133: 20 , 133 : 25 , 135: 12 , 135 : 14 , 225: 19 , 225 : 22 , 225: 24 , 226 : 7 **workforce** [9] - 31 : 22 , 108 : 14 , 133 : 18 , 135: 11 , 135 : 17 , 145: 15 , 225 : 19 , 225: 22 **Workforce** [3] - 108 : 19 , 142 : 20 , 145 : 12 **workgroup** [3] - 24 : 8 , 33: 23 , 78:4 

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS 110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 38

**works** [2] - 17: 20, 183 : 5 **world** [4] - 58 : 10 , 107 : 20 , 147: 14 , 161 : 9 **worry** [ 1 ] - 156 : 23 **worst** [3] - 100 : 16, 116 : 10 , 122 : 7 **worth** [3] - 27 : 17 , 113 : 21 , 211 : 15 **wrangling** [1 ] - 89 :24 **wrap** [1 ] - 103: 24 **writing** [2] - 54 : 6 , 187 : 15 **Written** [3] - 7: 21 , 7 :23 , 8 :4 **written** [13] - 12 : 17 , 17: 2 , 69:4 , 69 : 13 , 70 : 9 , 78: 10 , 82 : 15, 82 : 22 , 82 : 24, 233 : 17 , 242 : 10 , 249: 3 **wrote** [ 1 ] - 156: 17 **Wyoming** [1 ] - 208: 7 

## X

**Xcel** [1 ] - 208 :4 

## Y

**year** [33] - 18 : 24 , 37: 1 , 38: 18 , 74 : 5 , 74 : 6 , 83: 21 , 84 : 16, 84 : 23, 84 : 24, 113 :22 , 114 : 25 , 116: 2 , 118: 3 , 118 : 6, 119 : 16 , 128 : 24 , 130 : 25 , 131 : 1 , 134 : 3, 135 :2 , 137 : 9, 148 : 1 , 154 : 15 , 176 : 23 , 178: 1 , 178: 2 , 182 : 8, 196 : 11 , 196 : 13 , 196: 16 , 201 : 15 **year -** **by -** **year** [ 1 ] - 84 : 16 **years** [42] - 19 :4 , 20 : 22 , 20 : 23, 21 : 11 , 22 : 8 , 27: 15 , 32 : 15, 38: 20, 81 : 24, 89 : 24 , 102 : 17 , 107: 9 , 107 : 19 , 113: 22 , 113 : 24 , 114 : 2 , 114 : 3 , 114 : 6, 140 : 7, 140 : 17 , 142 : 19 , 143: 21 , 144 : 18 , 145: 14 , 156 : 3, 158 : 1 , 159 :4 , 168 :4, 168 : 16 , 172 : 9 , 174 :4, 184 : 13 , 188 : 22 , 195: 20 , 212 : 21 , 213: 1 , 213:4 ,

## KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street , Northwest , Albuquerque , New Mexico 87102

( 505 ) 243

- 5018

- Fax ( 505 ) 243

- 3606 

# 39

218 : 2 , 218 : 9, 219 :22 , 220 : 5, 228 : 22 **yi elded**  [ 1 ] - 148 :4 **yo ung**  [ 1 ] - 226 : 8 **yo unger**  [ 1 ] - 93 : 12 **yo urself**  [ 1 ] - 215 :24 **yo uth**  [2] - 109 : 3, 226 : 12 

## Z

**zero** [1 ] - 148 : 15 **zeroed** [2] - 72 : 3, 72 : 14