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STATE OF NEW MEXICO

ENVIRONMENTAL IMPROVEMENT BOARD

No. EIB 13-02(R)

IN THE MATTER OF PROPOSED REVISIONS

TO THE STATE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN

FOR THE SAN JUAN GENERATING STATION

BEST AVAILABLE RETROFIT TECHNOLOGY

DETERMINATION

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS

BE IT REMEMBERED that on the 5th day of

September, 2013, the above-entitled matter came on for

hearing before the New Mexico Environmental Improvement

Board, taken at San Juan College, Room 7103, 4601

College Boulevard, Farmington, New Mexico, at the hour

of 9:20 a.m.
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A P P E A R A N C E S

For the Environmental Improvement Board:

DEBORAH PEACOCK

GREGORY H. FULFER

JAMES R. CASCIANO

JOHN MICHAEL VOLKERDING

TIMOTHY L. MORROW

MATTHEW HOLT

For the New Mexico Environment Department:

BILL GRANTHAM

Assistant General Counsel

Office of General Counsel

New Mexico Environment Department

1190 St. Francis Drive

Suite N-4050

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87505

(505) 222-9594

bill.grantham@state.nm.us

For Public Service Company of New Mexico:

RICHARD L. ALVIDREZ

MILLER STRATVERT, PA

Attorneys at Law

500 Marquette Avenue, Northwest

Suite 1100

Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 842-4737

ralvidrez@mstlaw.com

KALLIE D. KUEHL

Corporate Counsel

Public Service Company of New Mexico

414 Silver Avenue, Southwest

MS0805

Albuquerque, New Mexico 87103

(505) 241-0733

kallie.kuehl@pnmresources.com
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A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued)

For New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers:

PETER J. GOULD

General Counsel

Post Office Box 34127

Santa Fe, New Mexico 87594-4127

(505) 988-4804

pgouldlaw@gmail.com
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I N D E X

PAGE

WITNESSES:

RYAN FLYNN

Direct Testimony 18

Examination by the Board 36

Cross Examination by Mr. Gould 60

ELIZABETH BISBEY-KUEHN

Direct Examination by Mr. Grantham 67

TED SCHOOLEY

Direct Examination by Mr. Grantham 77

GI-DONG KIM

Direct Examination by Mr. Grantham 81

JAMES CRAWFORD

Direct Testimony 88

CLAYTON BENALLY

Direct Testimony 92

STEVE HENKE

Direct Testimony 95

EVERETT F. CHAVEZ

Direct Testimony 100

CARLA SONNTAG

Direct Testimony 104

JAMES PIOCHE

Direct Testimony 106
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I N D E X (Continued)

PAGE

WITNESSES:

ELIZABETH BISBEY-KUEHN, TED SCHOOLEY and

GI-DONG KIM

Examination by the Board 110

Cross Examination by Mr. Gould 128

BEN SHELLY

Direct Testimony 131

RICKIE NEZ

Direct Testimony 139

NORMAN BEGAYE

Direct Testimony 143

DONNA CRAWFORD

Direct Testimony 146

DIANA LUCK

Direct Testimony 150

PETER GOULD

Direct Testimony 151

JOE GONZALES

Direct Testimony 155

CHARLIE DUNSWORTH

Direct Testimony 157

R. G. Hunt

Direct Testimony 158
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I N D E X (Continued)

PAGE

WITNESSES:

KYLE LUCAS, DIANE FISCHER and RAJ P. GAIKWAD

Direct Examination by Mr. Alvidrez 167

Examination by the Board 185

CHRIS OLSON

Direct Examination by Mr. Alvidrez 195

Cross Examination by Mr. Gould 202

RONALD DARNELL

Direct Examination by Mr. Alvidrez 207

Examination by the Board 212

Cross Examination by Mr. Gould 215

HUBERT HARWOOD

Direct Testimony 224

SHARON CLAHCHISCHILLIAGE

Direct Testimony 227
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E X H I B I T S

ADMITTED

NMED:

1. Clean Air Act 169A and 169B 230

2. 40 CFR 51.308 230

3. 40 CFR 51.309 230

4. Appendix Y to 40 CFR Part 51 - BART

Guidelines 230

5. Term Sheet Between the US Environmental

Protection Agency, Public Service

Company of New Mexico and the State of

New Mexico 86

6. BART Analysis Addendum, PNM San Juan

Generating Station, April 1, 2013 86

7. Affidavits of publication of public

hearing notices 86

8. Public comments submitted by the US

Bureau of Land Management 86

9. Public comments submitted by the

National Park Service 86

10. Written Testimony of Ted Schooley 86

10a. Tec Schooley Curriculum Vitae 86

11. Written Testimony of Elizabeth

Bisbey-Kuehn 86

11a. Elizabeth Bisbey-Kuehn resume 86
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E X H I B I T S (Continued)

ADMITTED

NMED (Continued):

12. Written Testimony of Gi-Dong Kim 86

12a. Gi-Dong Kim resume 86

15. Proposed Order and Statement of Reasons

for Adoption of SIP Revisions 230

16. Corrections to Chapter 10 and Appendix D 86

PNM:

A. Direct Testimony of Mr. Ronald M.

Darnell Submitted on Behalf of Public

Service Company of New Mexico in

Support of Petition for Regulatory

Change, including attached exhibits 209

B. Direct Testimony of Mr. Chris M. Olson

Submitted on Behalf of Public Service

Company of New Mexico in Support of

Petition for Regulatory Change,

including attached exhibits 197

C. Pre-Filed Testimony of Black & Veatch

Corporation (Kyle Lucas & Diane M.

Fischer) Submitted on Behalf of Public

Service Company of New Mexico,

including attached exhibits 175
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E X H I B I T S

ADMITTED

PNM (Continued):

D. Direct Testimony of Sargent & Lundy

(Dr. Rajendra P. Gaikwad) Submitted on

Behalf of Public Service Company of

New Mexico in Support of Petition for

Regulatory Change, including attached

exhibits 175
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MS. PEACOCK: Moving on to item number 7 is

the hearing in EIB 13-02 regarding the regional haze

State Implementation Plan (SIP) with respect to the

determination of Best Available Retrofit Technology

(BART) for nitrogen oxides from the San Juan Generating

Station.

Mr. Grantham.

MR. VOLKERDING: Do you have anything prior to

starting the record?

And then if not, I will do my speech.

MR. GRANTHAM: I will have an opening

statement, but --

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MR. GRANTHAM: -- nothing prior to that.

MR. VOLKERDING: All right.

Good morning.

My name is John Volkerding, and I was

designated by the Environmental Improvement Board to act

as Hearing Officer in this matter.

The hearing is being held to consider proposed

revisions to the State Implementation Plan for San Juan

Generating Station Best Available Retrofit Technology

determination.

The rulemaking petition was filed by the

Environment Department and docketed by the administrator
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as EIB 13-02.

Sorry. All right.

The hearing will be conducted in accordance

with the Board's rulemaking procedures set out in 20.1.1

NMAC. Pursuant to those procedures, I will conduct the

hearing so as to provide a reasonable opportunity for

all persons to be heard without making the hearing

unreasonably lengthy.

The Rules of Civil Procedure and the Rules of

Evidence do not apply, but I will make whatever orders

are necessary to preserve decorum.

All testimony will be taken under oath, and

all persons giving testimony will be subject to

cross-examination by any other person in attendance on

the subject matter of their testimony and on matters

affecting their credibility. I may limit

cross-examination if necessary to avoid harassment,

intimidation or repetition.

The hearing is being recorded and transcribed

by Cheryl -- and I'm not going to do your name

perfect -- Arreguin of Kathy Townsend Court Reporters.

You may obtain a copy of the transcript directly from

the court reporter. It also eventually becomes a public

record, viewable in the office of the Board

administrator.
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If you have not signed in, please do so

regardless of whether you wish to present public --

public comment or not.

If you have a phone or pager with you, please

silence it.

Okay. Board members, the file contains the

petition for hearing and the Department's notice of

intent to present technical testimony, as well as the

Public Service Company of New Mexico's notice of intent

to present technical testimony.

The New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers

have filed a motion for leave to intervene an entry of

appearance. That motion was filed timely and will only

consist of nontechnical testimony. Thus, I grant the

motion for leave to intervene and entry of appearance

for New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers.

The administrator has received several written

comments from members of the public via mail, E-mail or

web portal that have been distributed to the Board

members.

There will also be a couple opportunities for

additional comments by members of the public as the

hearing progresses.

If any of the members of the public intend to

comment, please make sure you do sign in on the register
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so the amount of time needed can be calculated and

schedule determined.

Public comment is limited to three minutes and

generally will proceed in the order on the sign-up

sheet.

Mr. Grantham, please make your appearance and

introduce your witnesses.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you, Mr. Hearing Officer,

Madam Chair, members of the Board.

My name is Bill Grantham. I'm an assistant

general counsel with New Mexico Environment Department.

And with me today are the secretary designate

of the Department, Ryan Flynn, and from the Air Bureau

we have Liz Bisbey-Kuehn, Ted Schooley and Gi-Dong Kim,

who are our three technical witnesses.

And I don't know if you plan on taking entries

of appearance from the other attorneys before I proceed.

MR. VOLKERDING: I guess why don't we. That's

a good -- that's a good point.

So the other attorneys for the other parties.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes, Mr. Hearing Officer,

members of the Board.

Rick Alvidrez, and with me is co-counsel

Kallie Kuehl of Public Service Company of New Mexico.

And our witnesses today will include Ron
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Darnell, who is senior vice-president of public policy.

We also have Chris Olson, who is vice-president of

generation. Our outside technical witnesses, we will

have Raj Gaikwad, Dr. Raj Gaikwad, Sargent & Lundy; and

from Black & Veatch some familiar faces, we'll have Kyle

Lucas and also Diane Fischer.

MR. VOLKERDING: And then is there anyone here

from New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers?

MR. GOULD: Mr. Hearing Examiner, members of

the Board, my name is Peter Gould. I'm general counsel

of the New Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers.

We will engage in some cross-examination. We

do want to make a public comment. We will not be filing

testimony, but thank you for this opportunity.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Grantham.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you, Mr. Hearing Officer,

members of the Board.

I have a few brief remarks before we get to

our witnesses.

As the Board will recall, the last time we

were here in this -- in this room, I believe, in 2011,

the Board approved a complete regional haze SIP for New

Mexico, and that included, among other things, a Best

Available Retrofit Technology, or BART, determination,
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for the San Juan Generating Station, along with

reasonable progress goals for the state and other

requirements in accordance with the Section 309 Regional

Haze Rule that Ms. Bates talked about a moment ago.

In 2012 -- in November of 2012, EPA approved

that regional haze SIP in its entirety, including some

of the NOx -- excuse me -- including some of the BART

provisions of that SIP, but did not take action on the

NOx BART determination for the San Juan Generating

Station, NOx being nitrogen oxides.

EPA did approve the BART determination for the

San Juan Generating Station for particulate matter and

approved our sulfur dioxide trading program that covers

the whole state. So those elements of BART have been

addressed.

So what we're here to consider today is simply

the revised State Implementation Plan for the NOx BART

determination for the San Juan Generating Station.

Shortly after this Board approved our 2011

SIP, as you know, EPA promulgated a federal

implementation rule, or FIP, that had a different BART

determination for NOx for San Juan. New Mexico and PNM

have challenged that determination.

The case is still formally pending in the

Tenth Circuit, but in the course of that litigation, the
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Department, EPA and Public Service Company of New Mexico

have reached a tentative agreement that will address the

NOx BART determination.

Mr. Flynn will be providing more context on

how we got to where we are today, but procedurally I

just want to point out that part of the reason for this

background is that the -- the proposed State

Implementation Plan that's before you contains -- it

still contains the particulate matter and the -- the

particulate matter BART determination for San Juan and

the determination that San Juan is the only source in

New Mexico that's subject to BART.

And the reason we did that is we wanted to

keep our State Implementation Plan kind of whole and not

fragmented. So we provided you with a revised version

of Chapter 10 of the plan that you approved in 2011, and

Appendix D of that plan.

So that's the form that this BART

determination takes.

With that, I'll proceed to our witnesses, and

I'll ask that they'll be all sworn in at one time.

And as I indicated, Mr. Flynn, the secretary

designate, will give a little more context of a

nontechnical nature regarding how we got here and why

the state supports the alternative that's before you,
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and then we will proceed to our three technical

witnesses to provide a summary of their written

testimony, how this plan satisfies the regulatory

requirements.

So if I could have all the witnesses --

MR. VOLKERDING: If I can ask a question

first.

So Mr. Flynn is going to provide nontechnical

testimony.

MR. GRANTHAM: That is correct.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you.

(RYAN FLYNN, TED SCHOOLEY, ELIZABETH

BISBEY-KUEHN and GI-DONG KIM were duly sworn

or affirmed.)

MR. GRANTHAM: If I could also clarify that

our intent is to have the technical witnesses be

examined as a panel -- cross-examined as a panel,

whereas the nontechnical witness can be cross-examined

separately.

MR. VOLKERDING: That works.

Thank you.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you.
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RYAN FLYNN

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

MR. FLYNN: Good morning, Mr. Chair, members

of the Board.

It's an honor to be here before you this

morning. I didn't plan on being this close to you, but

it is great to see you all again today.

As Mr. Grantham mentioned, I am here to

testify as to the policy justifications driving the New

Mexico Environment Department and Governor Martinez'

decision to support the revised State Implementation

Plan.

I will also be providing context about the

discussions and thought process that went into our

ultimate decision to support a revised State

Implementation Plan. My testimony is nontechnical. It

is policy testimony.

I guess I should formally introduce myself for

the record, I guess. First off, my name is Ryan Flynn.

I'm the secretary designate of the Environment

Department. Governor Martinez appointed me in April of

this past year.

Before that, I was the general counsel, had
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the honor of coming before this Board on a number of

occasions. And it's -- again, it's a pleasure to be

here this morning to talk about this proposal, because

I've spent a great deal of time over the past two years,

as has this Board, working on this issue.

I wanted to start by providing some

background. And I realize for most of you that this

is -- these are issues that you're fully aware of, so

I'll provide a very abbreviated background, and I'll be

happy upon questions from the Board to elaborate more on

any of these issues if I -- if I only briefly touch upon

them.

But there's a couple of key points that I

think really need to be emphasized in order to provide

the appropriate context for this alternative proposal.

As the Board is aware, in June of 2011, the

state submitted a State Implementation Plan for regional

haze to EPA. The NMED's plan determined the Best

Available Retrofit Technology, BART, for the San Juan

Generating Station.

Our plan set the NOx limit for each of the

units at San Juan at .23 pounds using postcombustion

control technology known as selective noncatalytic

reduction, SNCR. The state's plan would have been far

less costly than the -- the plan that was ultimately
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adopted by the EPA.

And that occurred in August of 2011.

EPA published a Federal Implementation Plan

that established BART for the San Juan Generating

Station. EPA's plan, as I mentioned, required the

installation of selective catalytic reduction

technology. The selective SCR, the selective catalytic

reduction technology, would cost far more than the

state's plan, but it would achieve more significant

reductions in NOx and greater visibility improvements

than the state's plan.

When proposing the Federal Implementation

Plan, which eventually became the rule, EPA did not

specifically comment on the state's plan. And EPA's

statement in the rule is important, I think, to provide

some context for this Board.

EPA said, "We received a regional haze SIP

submittal from the state on July 5th, 2011.

Unfortunately, due to the timing of that submittal, we

cannot evaluate it as part of this action.

"We note that this regional haze SIP submittal

arrived approximately three-and-a-half years after --

three-and-a-half years past the due date of

December 17th, 2007, and well past January 15th, 2011,

the date by which we were obligated either to approve a
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regional haze SIP submission or to promulgate a regional

haze Federal Implementation Plan as a result of the 2009

finding of failure to submit the regional haze SIP."

Now, I spent time reading you that because I

think it's really important to emphasize that we

inherited a bad situation. And when I say "we," I mean

the New Mexico Environment Department, the Martinez

administration and many of the members of this Board who

are -- who are forced to consider a plan that the state

promulgated well after the deadline, over

three-and-a-half years past the 2007 deadline.

And I think that was a failure of leadership

from the prior administration, and they put the state

and they put this region in a very difficult situation.

The state fully supports the plan that we

proposed. We believe that the Board's decision and the

ultimate adoption of that original SIP was a wise one.

We wish that the prior administration submitted it on

time.

We believe that the failure to timely submit a

State Implementation Plan put the state at a

disadvantage -- at a severe disadvantage in the lawsuit

that was ultimately filed by Governor Martinez, the New

Mexico Environment Department against EPA.

In that lawsuit, in the Tenth Circuit, we
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challenged EPA's decision and specifically called into

question EPA's refusal to consider the plan that was

submitted by the state after the work of this Board.

While we believed it was important to fight

the EPA on this point, I have to emphasize that we were

aware that it was an uphill battle going in. We were

prejudiced by the fact that the state again was

three-and-a-half years late in making its SIP submittal.

And the discretion that is typically afforded

to states under the Clean Air Act to develop

implementation plans, such as the SIP that we submitted

for BART at the San Juan Generating Station -- that

discretion is -- is -- rather, that discretion may be

limited by our -- our late submittal.

So EPA felt justified, and there is some case

law to support EPA's position that because we were late

they did not even have to consider the plan that we

submitted.

I want to talk a little bit about what

happened after we filed suit.

I think it's important to point out that,

again, Governor Martinez and the Environment Department

immediately filed suit against EPA for failing to

consider this plan. We felt that the cost impacts that

would result from the federal rule would have
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devastating consequences for the State of New Mexico.

PNM also filed suit against EPA.

Notably absent from the discussion was the

Attorney General's Office. The Attorney General decided

not to take any action, not to attempt to fight EPA on

their encroachment of our authority to submit State

Implementation Plans, chose not to take action against

EPA on its decision to impose a very costly federal rule

on the citizens of the State of New Mexico.

Nonetheless, we move forward in the Tenth

Circuit and began dialogue with EPA on trying to figure

out if there was a way that we could resolve this, save

taxpayers the cost of litigation and come up with an

alternative.

We were very pleased with leadership at EPA

for recognizing that it was in the best interests of the

state and of federal government to work with the state

on a state-driven plan. Even though EPA made it clear

that they did not agree with, nor would they approve the

plan that we submitted, they were interested in allowing

us the opportunity to come up with our own plan and to

allow the state to see if there was a reasonable

alternative that we could devise.

So we engaged in extensive discussions with

stakeholders, including the Navajo Nation, including New
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Mexico Industrial Energy Consumers, including local

government leaders.

We also worked with environmental groups.

There were many national environmental groups and some

local environmental groups who were heavily involved in

the discussions.

We worked with a variety of technical experts,

and we had a series of technical workgroup meetings,

evaluating all the potential possibilities for moving

forward and developing an alternative.

We had four different public meetings,

including three meetings up here in Farmington, in the

Four Corners region. We had a public meeting, as well,

in Albuquerque. Each of these meetings were dedicated

to discussing discrete aspects of the State

Implementation Plan such as the economic impacts, the

environmental impacts, the impacts on jobs in the

region.

And we also had a meeting here to discuss just

the best process for engaging the public and ensuring

that the public had an opportunity to participate in

these discussions.

After months of discussions, it became clear

that we would not be able to come up with an alternative

that would be endorsed by everyone. There were strong
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feelings on many different sides of this dispute.

I think the -- there are some environmental

groups, most notably the Sierra Club, who has a campaign

labeled the War on Coal, and for some environmental

groups, anything short of a complete shutdown of the San

Juan Generating Station by 2022 was not acceptable, and

they would not agree to sign off on that.

On the other side, we recognized that a

retirement of any unit, of a single unit would have

severe consequences for this region, and we recognized

that it would be very difficult for certain local

leaders to agree to any proposal that would entail

shutting units down at the San Juan Generating Station.

So there were divergent opinions. But after

considering all these opinions, the state ultimately

decided that it was in the best interest for New Mexico,

for New Mexicans to move forward with a plan that would

entail retiring two units and to avoid yet another

costly retrofit on an aging coal plant.

Unlike EPA's rule, the state's proposed

alternative provides a long-term vision that will

improve visibility in the region, that will reduce air

pollution, that will conserve water, and that will allow

the state to take full advantages of existing economic

development opportunities in the Four Corners region.
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Equally important is the fact that the state

entered into a bilateral agreement with PNM in order to

take care of some of the economic consequences resulting

from a two-unit shutdown.

That agreement with PNM ensures that there

will be no layoffs as a result of unit retirements. It

also provides for economic development in the Navajo

Nation and in the Four Corners region. It also requires

the construction of a natural gas plant in this region,

which will provide construction jobs.

Now, this isn't to say that the alternative,

including the agreement that the state entered with PNM

in order to defray some of the economic consequences

resulting from this, is -- is perfect. But it is the

best path -- in our opinion, it is the best path forward

in a very difficult situation.

And I'll explain now why I believe in more

detail it is the best path forward in a -- in what I

mentioned was a difficult situation that we all

inherited in 2011, when the Board first took up a state

plan submitted by the New Mexico Environment Department.

In the Tenth Circuit, one of the things -- I

want to talk a little bit about some of the factors that

the Department considered in the Tenth Circuit and what

motivated us to settle.
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In the Tenth Circuit, what was at issue was

the EPA's failure to consider the State Implementation

Plan before promulgating the federal rule. I do not

believe there would have been an outcome in the Tenth

Circuit in which the court would have ordered EPA to

adopt the State Implementation Plan that was submitted.

I think that's a really important point.

It wasn't -- the court wasn't considering two

choices, we're going to either affirm the federal rule

or we're going to adopt the state rule. The court was

considering whether EPA had properly followed the Clean

Air Act in adopting a federal rule without considering

the state's rule.

As I mentioned, we were prejudiced by the fact

that the state was three-and-a-half years late, and EPA

repeatedly emphasized this point.

We still believe that the state plan was worth

fighting for, and we believe we had a strong case in

court. However, if the Tenth Circuit ultimately decided

with the state and with PNM, I do believe it is highly

unlikely that EPA would have done anything other than go

back and review the State Implementation Plan that was

submitted and ultimately make the same decision.

So I think the best outcome we could have

expected in the Tenth Circuit is for the court to strike
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down the federal rule and say EPA erred when it failed

to consider the State Implementation Plan and then

required EPA to go back and engage in another

rulemaking, and this time considering the State

Implementation Plan.

And EPA very well could have gone back then,

created a new record and explained again what they had

made clear repeatedly, which was they would not approve

the state plan and adopted the same federal proposal all

over again.

And so we would have been delaying, in my

opinion, the inevitable. If EPA wanted that federal

rule to become a rule, I think they would have

eventually been able to make it a federal rule that the

state would then be forced to comply with.

I believe the -- and PNM will be here, and

they can testify as to cost considerations. I will not

be testifying that -- providing policy testimony in that

regard this morning.

I will, though, testify about kind of the

broader contexts in which this dispute was occurring,

and specifically the transition away from coal-fired

generation to other forms of power.

There's been a national trend away from

coal-fired generation, and this is -- this has been
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driven by a number of different factors, but most

notably the impacts and concerns with climate change and

with the emissions generated by coal-fired electricity.

I believe that here we were -- we were faced

with a situation where owners of this entity would have

to make a decision about if the federal rule became a

rule -- and as I mentioned, I believe, regardless of

what happened in court, eventually we would have been

facing the federal rule that we are dealing with -- that

the owners of the San Juan Generating Station would have

to make a decision about their long-term future for coal

and their investment in the San Juan Generating Station.

And the choices would have been to invest

significantly. I think the bids that PNM received --

the independent bids that PNM received for the

installation of the EPA-mandated technology ranged from

$750 million to $805 million.

And so the owners would have been forced to

decide "whether we make a significant investment in this

generating station and commit ourselves to coal for the

long-term, or do we do something else, do we transition

away from coal to something like natural gas."

I think that given the trends on the national

level and the fact that the cost of producing coal-fired

electricity continues to -- to rise, the fact that this
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dispute is just one and will -- one chapter in what will

be an ongoing fight against coal-fired generation, that

there will be more lawsuits, more litigation for

coal-fired generating facilities like the San Juan

Generating Station, that will continue to add cost to --

to owners who produce coal-fired generation.

The cheap costs of natural gas, I think that's

also a factor. The fact that in this -- in the

particular case of the San Juan Generating Station, you

have a number of Californian owners, and California

actually has a law which prohibits the importation of

coal-fired electricity.

I think these are all factors that the owners

would have to consider when determining whether to

invest -- to comply with the federal rule and invest in

the San Juan Generating Station for the long term.

I do not believe that there is any scenario in

which all four units would remain operational if the

federal rule goes into effect. And the state -- we

spent a long time considering this. We looked at

possible ways forward, including whether there were any

other acceptable technologies that were somehow between

SNCR and SCR.

And there were not. Really the only -- the

only option for reducing the visibility was to consider
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unit retirement. And we do think that if the federal

rule goes into effect, units will certainly be retired,

and that is something that weighed heavily into the

state's considerations when we were determining a path

forward.

So considering the fact that we believe units

will certainly be retired if the federal rule goes into

effect, we started working on what would be -- what are

potential ways to alleviate the economic consequences of

unit retirement. This was critical for the Martinez

administration, was working with PNM to ensure that

there would be no layoffs as a result of plant closure.

Now, if -- without this State

Implementation -- this revised State Implementation

Plan, this agreement that we -- that we reached with EPA

and PNM, if units are retired, there will be layoffs in

this region. Absent this agreement, I -- I believe

there will be layoffs as a result of unit retirements.

With this agreement, there is a guarantee that

there will be no layoffs. Now, those jobs, they're --

those jobs will go away. There's not -- you're not --

there's someone in the workforce who is not able to go

out and get that same job. But at least someone isn't

losing their job.

As a result of the agreement, we also -- PNM
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agreed to facilitate the creation of approximately 350

construction jobs, and that was related to PNM's

agreement to build a 150- to 200-megawatt peaking unit

in this region, along with a natural gas pipeline.

PNM also agreed to provide $1 million for job

retraining for the Navajo Nation.

PNM also agreed to provide $150,000 to the

Four Corners Economic Development Group.

And I -- this is critical, because it

emphasizes the Martinez administration's awareness that

this is a difficult situation. Retiring units will have

consequences for this region. And it was critical that

we figure out a path forward, something that would

protect the region from -- from the consequences of

EPA's action and from poor planning by the state years

ago.

And so that's -- that agreement with PNM was a

critical piece of our decision-making in choosing to go

forward with a revised State Implementation Plan.

Speaking for the Environment Department, the

visibility improvements and the environmental benefits

were also very critical factors in our decision to go

forward with this plan. We believe that this -- the

revised State Implementation Plan will provide

significant visibility improvements, and our technical
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witnesses will provide more testimony exactly on this

issue.

But the -- as Gi-Dong Kim will testify, the

visibility improvements achieved by the proposed

alternative is within half a deciview of those achieved

by the federal rule, and that type of difference is not

perceptible to the human eye. So under our revised SIP,

we will get significant visibility improvements.

Unlike the federal rule, our revised SIP will

also produce significant environmental benefits beyond

visibility. The proposal will -- as Liz Bisbey-Kuehn

will testify, the proposal will achieve significant

reductions in carbon, sulfur dioxide, mercury and

particulates. The proposal will also significantly

decrease water consumption at the San Juan Generating

Station.

From an environmental perspective, we believe

the revised State Implementation Plan is superior to the

original State Implementation Plan.

PNM will provide -- as I mentioned, I'm -- I

am not here to testify as to the costs. I will state

that we considered cost and spoke at length during our

technical workgroup discussions and our meetings with

stakeholders, including PNM, about the costs associated

with this proposal. We believe that the proposed
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alternative is much less expensive than the federal

rule.

In a state like New Mexico, where the

percentage of New Mexicans living below the poverty line

is over 20 percent, the cost impacts of federal

regulations cannot be overlooked. We believe this

proposal successfully balances the environmental and

economic impacts of energy production in the Four

Corners area.

The proposal also allows New Mexico, rather

than EPA, to determine the best path forward for the

state. Unlike the federal rule, which fully committed

New Mexico to coal-fired electrical generation through

2053, this proposal is a state plan to allow New Mexico

to diversify its energy portfolio and take advantage of

cheaper, cleaner, local energy resources, such as

natural gas.

And as I testified before, the proposed

alternative helps offset the adverse economic

consequences flowing from a two-unit retirement.

Our proposal enjoyed broad support. We have

the support of local leaders, including Representative

Tom Taylor. We have the support of the Navajo Nation.

We have the support of local organizations like the Four

Corners Economic Development Group.
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We received -- I just read today about a

resolution adopted by the San Juan County Commission,

acknowledging the difficulties that we're facing in this

situation, but applauding the state plan as a -- as the

best path forward in what is a difficult situation.

New Mexico congressional leaders have also

endorsed the plan, including Senator Tom Udall.

Shortly after we announced the revised plan --

the agreement we have reached with EPA and PNM about the

revised plan, we had one environmental organization call

this the greatest environmental improvement in the

state's history. I don't believe that environmental

group actually supports our plan anymore, but they did

acknowledge the significant environmental achievements

that would be obtained through this plan.

I want to finish by just applauding the

Governor's leadership in this effort. And I use

leadership intentionally. I think there's a -- there's

a difference between being a politician and being a

leader. And leaders make decisions that are in the best

interest of their constituents. They're honest. They

assess situations, and they make -- they make decisions

that are in the best interests of the people they

represent.

And that's exactly what the Martinez
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administration has done here with this revised State

Implementation Plan.

I think it would be easy to make hollow

political statements, to point our finger at the EPA and

talk about what a terrible situation we've inherited,

which we have, and as I testified to. We inherited a

terrible situation.

But leaders figure out how do we move forward,

how can we position the state to move out of the

situation, how do we protect the state from the dire

economic consequences that will flow from the rule that

has been imposed upon us. That's leadership, in my

opinion.

I am extremely impressed by the leadership

that our Governor has demonstrated throughout this

process, in -- first of all, in suing EPA and then in

working with EPA to ensure that we were able to try to

come up with a state-driven plan.

So with that, I'll stand for any questions

from the Board.

EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MR. VOLKERDING: Member Fulfer.

MR. FULFER: I have just a few questions to

clarify in my own mind.
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Do you know what year the BART requirements

were put into effect for PNM? Was that somewhere around

2006? Is that correct?

MR. FLYNN: Mr. Chair, Member Fulfer, I'm not

aware of when the --

MR. FULFER: I have a --

MR. FLYNN: -- the rule became effective.

MR. FULFER: -- technical question, and I'll

try to stay on the policy ones.

MR. FLYNN: Oh, sorry.

MR. FULFER: I guess my question is -- leading

to the policy question is was this a mandate from the

federal government, and was it funded --

MR. FLYNN: Mr. Chair --

MR. FULFER: -- in some form or fashion that

may -- that may help New Mexico with this issue?

MR. FLYNN: Mr. Chair, Member Fulfer, in -- it

is a mandate in that it's a federal rule. I believe the

rule was adopted in 1999. It's a federal requirement to

adopt a haze plan.

I'm not aware of the state receiving any

funding associated with this -- with this federal rule.

MR. FULFER: The -- I guess the National Park

Service budgets don't -- don't provide any money, or as

far as the EPA doesn't provide any funding for --
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MR. FLYNN: Mr. Chair, Member Fulfer, I'm

not -- I'm not aware of any funding that's provided by

EPA for compliance with this rule, and I'm -- wouldn't

feel comfortable positing either way as to what's the

National Park's association. I just am not familiar

enough with that organization to testify.

MR. FULFER: Was this maybe one of the first

cases filed against EPA, as far as you know, or --

MR. FLYNN: Mr. Chair, Member Fulfer, no. I

believe that the State of Oklahoma challenged EPA on the

haze rule. I believe the State of South Dakota -- North

Dakota, rather, also challenged EPA. We were one of a

handful of states that did take action against EPA.

Each case was a little bit different.

Oklahoma was -- was late, but they were not as late as

we were in terms of their submittal of a State

Implementation Plan. We were -- I think Oklahoma

submitted theirs in a little less than a year after it

was due, and we were -- ours was submitted, as I

mentioned, three-and-a-half years after it was due.

MR. FULFER: Was the -- did the Governor --

she filed the lawsuit, or did it go through the Attorney

General's Office?

MR. FLYNN: We consulted -- Mr. Chair, Member

Fulfer, we thought that this was ultimately -- and as
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you can see from the result, this was a bipartisan

effort, and I applaud our congressional leaders for

working with us, including Senator Udall, for endorsing

the revised proposal.

So when we started this, we reached out to the

Attorney General, and we thought that, surely, this

would be something that we could all agree on, that this

is in the best interest of the State of New Mexico to

challenge EPA.

The Attorney General decided not to

participate in this lawsuit, and so the Environment

Department and Governor Martinez -- we went at it on our

own and filed suit against EPA ourselves.

But the case is not styled as State of New

Mexico v. EPA. It was Martinez v. EPA, and it's because

the Attorney General specifically declined -- I was

involved in those discussions, and they -- without

providing any reason, they specifically declined

participating in the lawsuit.

But this -- I can't speak to what their --

what went into their decision-making, but I think the

results show that this was -- this was a bipartisan

effort, that our leaders were able to put politics aside

and do what's in the best interest of the State of New

Mexico.
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So I do applaud the Governor, and I applaud

our congressional delegation for recognizing that this

is -- the agreement we reached was in the best interest

of the state.

MR. FULFER: Maybe the United States has been

through some really hard economic times, and New Mexico

is kind of at the bottom of the ladder, that being one

of the poorer states, and the -- the San Juan generation

plant, it's probably one of the hard -- hardest economic

areas.

The -- this affects so many people in New

Mexico, its -- because it seems like the Public Service

in New Mexico covers -- provides electricity for so many

of the largest populated areas in New Mexico.

And so I guess, to me, the Attorney General --

this seems like it would have been an opportunity to

step up and really protect the people of New Mexico. It

seems like we're being pushed down to -- somewhat to

accept these things, but I really have to applaud, I

guess, the Governor and your staff for stepping up and

filing this lawsuit, and appreciate that part of what

you're doing.

MR. FLYNN: Thank you.

MR. FULFER: Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Other Board member questions?
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Chair Peacock.

MS. PEACOCK: Mr. Flynn, you've outlined what

would happen if the Board doesn't approve this SIP.

Could you go through what's going to happen in

the court action if the Board approves this SIP?

MR. FLYNN: Mr. Chair, Member Peacock, that's

a great question.

There are a lot of contingencies that the

settlement is -- requires in order for it to ultimately

be fulfilled, and the first step is coming to this

Board.

And if we were to get approval from this

Board, the next step would be to -- not for the

Environment Department -- I don't anticipate that we

will participate in the -- in the hearing before the

Public Regulation Commission, but there will be a PRC

action, because that would be required in order to close

units at the station.

So that action will need to proceed.

Then after the PRC action concludes, if that

action is successful, the -- the -- well, simultaneously

with the PRC action, if this Board were to approve our

revised SIP, we would submit that to EPA, who would

initiate a rulemaking at the federal level to supersede

the current rule that's in place.
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I don't know if supersede is the right word.

They would eventually -- if they -- if we submitted this

rule, EPA would submit the rule for public comment and

hopefully approve and adopt our revised SIP, and that

would become a federal rule, which would then replace

the current rule. EPA, I believe, would withdraw the

current rule and replace that with the new rule that's

adopted.

At that point, after the EPA adopts a new rule

that is consistent with the revised SIP -- again, I'm

not -- I'm not assuming an outcome, so I -- I'm not

presuming that the Board is just going to approve our

proposal.

But if the Board were inclined to approve our

proposal and EPA were inclined to adopt that revised

proposal and the PRC does approve the plan moving

forward, at that point, the intention is for PNM, the

New Mexico Environment Department, Governor Martinez and

for EPA to move to dismiss the lawsuit that's been filed

in federal court.

Now, I believe that some intervenors may

oppose that. I -- based on discussions -- well, let me

reverse that.

I do not believe that the Tenth Circuit would

continue to move forward with the case if -- if PNM,
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Governor Martinez, NMED and EPA moved to dismiss. I

believe the Tenth Circuit -- even in the face of

objections, they would ultimately dismiss that lawsuit.

So that's -- that's kind of a general outline

of what I think would happen moving forward. And I

realize there's a lot of moving pieces here, and part of

the reason why our -- the settlement agreement Term

Sheet we reached with EPA is drafted in the way it is,

is in recognition of the fact that we cannot prejudge

outcomes.

There are a lot of contingencies that are

beyond the control of the state, of EPA and of PNM that

need to come to fruition in order to actually execute

this plan.

So we couldn't sign a settlement agreement and

say everything is done, because we know we have to go

back to this Board, we know that we have to go to PRC,

and we know the federal government has to engage in

rulemaking, and we couldn't prejudge the outcome of any

of those proceedings.

But if those things were to come to fruition,

I do believe the Tenth Circuit would dismiss the case.

MS. PEACOCK: And that's why it says it has no

binding effect in the Term Sheet?

MR. FLYNN: Yes. It's because the -- because
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we're dealing with rulemakings, and for -- for the

Environment Department, it's not actually as -- it's a

different issue, because we come to this Board for -- we

propose a rule, and then you're ultimately the

decision-making authority on our rules.

For EPA, they don't have a board that they

report to. They engage in their own rulemaking. So if

EPA were to sign a settlement agreement before actually

noticing and receiving public comments and considering

those public comments, then that would potentially

jeopardize the -- the rule itself. They would have

predetermined an outcome without actually going through

the public notice and considering public comment.

So I believe that the parties were very clear

that the Term Sheet was not binding in order to make it

clear that we were not going to -- we had not made a

deal outside of the public arena and reached -- reached

the deal that -- without considering public comment.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

And then what's the Department of Justice

approval that is required under --

MR. FLYNN: The Department of Justice is --

represents the EPA. So the Department of Justice in

moving forward, the -- in order to dismiss -- the DOJ

represents the EPA in the Tenth Circuit case, so EPA is
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the client. But I don't -- I don't believe that

approval would be difficult. The client controls the

objection of litigation, including whether or not to

settle. So I believe that would be merely a formality.

But the DOJ in the Tenth Circuit action --

they -- they're not participating in the federal

rulemaking or in any of the technical decision-making,

but they would be -- as the attorney representing the

EPA, they would be submitting a motion to dismiss, if we

reached that point, along with us, the state and PNM.

The DOJ would be the attorney submitting that on behalf

of EPA.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

And then you talked a lot about missing the

12/17/07 -- yeah, you might want a copy of the Term

Sheet -- missing the 12/17/07 deadline.

What -- what is to prevent -- or what's your

assurances that that's not going to be the same argument

with the new SIP?

MR. FLYNN: I'm sorry. I don't understand

your question.

MS. PEACOCK: On the 12/17/07 deadline that

was missed before, what assurances do you have or what's

in the Term Sheet that assures us that that's not going

to be the same argument again, that this new SIP hasn't
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met the deadline of 12/17/07?

MR. FLYNN: Well, I think, you know, the fact

that the EPA signed this Term Sheet -- I mean, that

question goes to whether the EPA entered into good faith

negotiations with the state and PNM in order to solve

this outcome.

I think, you know, we -- in order to reach a

settlement agreement, you have to trust that people are

participating in good faith. And as difficult as it may

be for me to say, I trust that -- in this case, I trust

the EPA means it when they committed to working with us

and to adopting the Term Sheet.

I think the question is -- is a completely

fair one, and I recognize that, you know, EPA could at

some point turn around and say no and put us with the

federal rule again.

And I think that would -- like I said, I think

if -- if that were the case, that would be -- that would

be devastating for this region. I think it would be

terrible for the state. I think the costs associated

with the federal rule would have statewide impact, have

a significant statewide impact.

And I think the local impacts of the federal

rule, absent -- there is no agreement if -- this

agreement we have is the only structure in place that
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actually saves jobs, that actually produces some jobs

from this terrible situation. If this agreement falls

through, there are no assurances. Jobs, I believe, will

be lost. Costs will be incurred for the entire state.

So I think this is the best path forward. I

believe the EPA participated in good faith in our

discussions. I believe they are committed to working

with us and in seeing this Term Sheet ultimately become

the federal rule.

But you're right, there is some trust

involved.

MS. PEACOCK: Has the EPA seen a draft of the

SIP and provided any informal comments or --

MR. FLYNN: Mr. Chair, Member Peacock, yes.

We have been actively working with EPA for -- since we

signed this Term Sheet and have been engaged as early --

as recently as 7:30 this morning, there was a conference

call between the State of New Mexico and some of the

people at this table and PNM and EPA, and I believe

the -- there's -- I believe there has been a commitment

from EPA to working with the state to ensure that this

comes to fruition.

I would also point out that one of the -- one

of the powerful statements that -- that I saw from this

process was that the new EPA administrator,
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Administrator Gina McCarthy -- during her confirmation

hearing, she actually touted this -- this Term Sheet and

this agreement as -- as an example of how they can

achieve positive environmental benefits and work with

states to resolve disputes.

I'm not sure exactly -- I forget what her

exact language was, but she was involved in this before

she -- like me, she occupied a different position at the

time, and she was involved in this. She was the

director of air and radiation at the time. She was

ultimately one of the key decision-makers signing off on

this going forward. And in response to questioning from

Senator Udall during her confirmation hearing, she

endorsed this plan moving forward.

So I think that's a very positive sign that

there is -- there is support from the top down at EPA

for this Term Sheet.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

Back to the Term Sheet, one more question. In

section 1.c, it says, "The dates that follow with an

asterisk in paragraph d. will be revised accordingly if

the installation date extends past January 31st, 2016,

due to delay in EPA's SIP approval."

How does that work? Is it day-by-day

extension? Month-by-month? What kinds of extensions --
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they're not outlined in the Term Sheet. What was the

intention?

MR. FLYNN: If you just give me a second to

find exactly where you are at, I can look at it before I

answer here.

It's in section 1?

MS. PEACOCK: 1.c, the last sentence --

MR. FLYNN: First page?

MS. PEACOCK: -- first page, and it's talking

about 1.d.

MR. FLYNN: Okay.

Okay. This is one of the -- Mr. Chair, Member

Peacock -- well, first of all, Member Peacock, you kind

of honed in on some -- some interesting issues that

you're able to -- you're able to detect here.

This was the subject of quite a bit of

discussion, obviously, and I think PNM could -- would be

in a better position to talk about this specific

provision. So I'll provide my input, but I would

encourage you to perhaps ask the same question to one of

PNM's witnesses. I'll put them on the spot, as well.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

MR. FLYNN: But this is -- this is one of the

joys of negotiating with EPA.

I think the -- our preference would have been
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to have a clear guidance as, you know, day-for-day or a

firmer commitment for what the extensions would look

like.

EPA would not budge on that. They did agree

they'd provide us with a comfort letter. They have

routinely committed that "We will work with you to

ensure that the deadlines are -- are reasonable and that

they're -- that we're not putting anyone in any

difficult situations."

However, they -- one of their policy

justifications, I believe, was that they did not want to

start setting arbitrary dates that couldn't then be met.

So they preferred language that was more -- that was

more vague.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

MR. FLYNN: I could say, you know, from the

state's perspective -- hopefully PNM can speak to their

feelings about this -- I think we would prefer more

certainty in that language, but we ultimately have to --

to move forward, and it was not a -- it was not a

deal-breaker for us, the language that we ultimately

agreed to accept here. So we moved forward with it.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

And then following along that same theme, it

looks like this Term Sheet was done on the fly, to me,
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and so when you get to --

MR. FLYNN: No, it was not.

MS. PEACOCK: No? Okay.

MR. FLYNN: Mr. Chair, Member Peacock, I --

MS. PEACOCK: By the way, I'm still Chair,

Mr. Ryan.

MR. VOLKERDING: I'm just Hearing Officer.

MR. FLYNN: Okay. I was going to provide a

witty response, but I'm not going to. I swear, it was

funny.

Madam Chair, Hearing Officer Volkerding,

members of the Board, I can assure you that this was not

done on the fly. I think that there's intention when

you're -- you know, I think you need to understand the

context in which we were negotiating here. And I

realize you weren't there, but I was.

A lot of work was put into this document. And

I think from the state and from PNM's perspective, we

would -- we would prefer a document that has as much

specificity as possible. From EPA's perspective, they

would prefer to have a document that has as little

specificity as possible.

So there was a constant back-and-forth in

trying to ensure that the language was acceptable to

meet the state's needs, acceptable to meet PNM's needs,
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but agreeable so that EPA would actually sign it and

approve it.

This was not done on the fly. This was done

during months of negotiations. Numerous drafts were

exchanged. I can tell you that we proposed a very

different-looking document that was submitted by the

state as -- as an initial talking point and point of

discussion. The document that we submitted wasn't --

had much more detail in it.

The EPA refused to work from that starting

point, and this -- this Term Sheet is consistent with

other term sheets that the EPA has entered which are

more general in nature.

And the example that EPA routinely referred us

to was the settlement agreement they achieved with the

State of Oklahoma and the Term Sheet they agreed there,

which I believe was two pages long, as well.

And I think in defense of EPA, they sit in the

same position that this Board does when you're acting as

rulemakers and adopting -- making law, and so there is a

public process that needs to occur, and they could not

definitively commit to certain things and -- and

actually by way of a settlement agreement promulgate a

rule outside of that public process that they're legally

required to engage in.
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So I think for that reason the Term Sheet is

more general in nature, but -- and it's something

different -- it's not something I -- I come from a

background that's probably similar to yours, Member

Peacock, where you're -- if you're negotiating in

litigation, negotiating a settlement agreement, you want

to tie down every single loose end, and you would never

have a settlement agreement that's three pages. Usually

they're 53 pages or 153 pages.

So this is something that's very different,

but it's -- the reason for the difference is because

we're operating in an area where there are multiple

rulemakings that need to occur, and we need to be

mindful of the fact that the public has a right and is

legally required to -- they're legally entitled to

participate in the ultimate outcome.

And so I think for that reason, while we can

agree that this is the best path forward, and we believe

this is an approvable plan, we could not commit

definitively that this is the plan that would ultimately

be adopted.

I couldn't speak for this Board and say this

Board would adopt this plan. EPA couldn't say that "We

will definitely adopt this plan." But I do not think

any of us would sign this if we didn't think it was
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approvable and ultimately going to be the best path

forward.

MS. PEACOCK: And my comment on the Term Sheet

leads into the SIP at the end of the SIP.

And by the way, I want to compliment the

Department. The writing is the best document that we've

seen. That's my opinion. The SIP document was

incredible, until I get to 10.5, which is a cut and

paste of the Term Sheet into the document.

And I'll ask the question this way, since

we're not in deliberations, but if during deliberations

the Board decides to add some headers and better

defining the terms, so that it's more understandable --

well, would the Department -- I'll ask PNM the same

question -- would you prefer that we keep it as a cut

and paste of the Term Sheet, putting it into the SIP, or

would you welcome the Board trying to clarify it with

headers and definitions?

MR. FLYNN: Madam Chair, Hearing Officer

Volkerding, this is a very difficult question to answer

again.

I would emphasize that we -- the effort it

took to actually agree to this Term Sheet. So I would

strongly encourage the Board to exercise restraint in

how it deals with the Term Sheet, and if it were
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inclined to move forward with the revised SIP, I would

encourage the Board not to make any substantive changes

to the document.

Formatting changes, that's -- absolutely no

problem with that, but I would hate to see this

agreement -- I would hate to see this agreement fall

apart, because we've got an agreement in place, a lot of

effort has been put into this document and into a path

forward, and I would be very nervous about making

changes to this document which would then allow EPA to

say "No, we're not willing to agree to this anymore."

I mean, they've committed to this from the

top, they've committed to moving forward. I think it

would be -- I just -- I think it would be -- could be

bad faith for EPA -- for us to do what we've all agreed

we're going to do and then for EPA to back out of this

agreement. I think it would be -- it would -- I think

it would be a very unwise political decision, as well.

So I -- and I really do not believe you'd be

able to do that. I would hate to see us give anyone an

opportunity to -- to move away from this agreement and

would be fearful that a substantive change to this

document would allow -- allow EPA off the hook.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

I don't have any other questions.
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MR. VOLKERDING: I had a couple. Most,

actually, were asked by Member Fulfer and Chair Peacock.

What guarantees are there that PNM will abide

by their portion of the agreement to not lay people off,

to provide funding to the various organizations you

mentioned, et cetera?

MR. FLYNN: Madam Chair, Hearing Officer

Volkerding, the Term Sheet counts as a -- it doesn't

actually speak to this bilateral agreement that PNM

would enter with the state. It would be -- that

agreement would be -- will be memorialized, and PNM

would breach that agreement if they were to -- to back

out of any of the commitments they made.

So I believe there would be legal consequences

after we memorialized that agreement for PNM if they

were to back out. I really can't comment on it beyond

that. I think you will have PNM here, and they'll be

under oath, and I would encourage you to ask them that

question directly.

I believe PNM, like EPA, has entered these

discussions in good faith. I believe they are fully

committed to seeing this both Term Sheet and the

agreement that they've made with the state come to a

successful outcome. So I have no doubt that PNM will

honor its commitment.
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MR. VOLKERDING: And I'm going to try and

phrase this as a question so it's not just me

testifying.

Do you know how many states missed the

December 17th, 2007, deadline, since that seems to be an

issue for EPA?

MR. FLYNN: Madam Chair, Mr. Hearing Officer,

I believe that 36 states missed that deadline.

MR. VOLKERDING: Correct.

MR. FLYNN: I believe that -- well, I also

believe that -- I'm trying to be as diplomatic as

possible here since we all have this great settlement

agreement.

I find it ironic that EPA, who frequently -- I

think I kind of understand where your question is coming

from. I think I understand where your question is

coming from. And there was no small amount of irony in

the fact that EPA was wagging its finger at the state

for missing a deadline when it does not appear that

there have been many deadlines that EPA is able to keep

on their own. So I do find that to be extremely ironic.

However, you know, you've got to take the case

on the merits and deal with what the law says, and one

of the reasons why PNM -- I'm sorry -- why EPA and the

state are in this situation is because EPA routinely
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missed deadlines, and as a result of citizen suits, they

were required to take action.

And so I -- you know, I think -- I think I

understand the point you were making, and I would

wholeheartedly agree that I do find it somewhat ironic

that EPA repeatedly emphasized our failure to meet our

deadline in their -- as one of their grounds for not

even considering the state SIP.

But I do think that, you know, we -- in the

legal world, you know, you operate in somewhat of a -- a

vacuum, if you will, in that you consider the law and

the merits, and I think, you know, the case law and the

court would have been considering what's the plain

language of the Clean Air Act.

And the EPA and Department of Justice were

very clear in pointing out our failure to meet that

deadline as grounds for EPA exercising its authority to

impose a plan on us, because, you know, here they -- the

beauty of the Clean Air Act is it's an elegantly

designed statute. It sets standards and then leaves it

up to states to come up with ways to meet those

standards.

So I -- as someone who, you know, is a strong

supporter of states' rights, that's exactly the type of

statutory framework I would support and favor.
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I think that, you know, EPA here, though --

you know, they certainly -- while they certainly

violated the spirit of the Clean Air Act by imposing

that federal rule upon us without considering it, they

were arguing that they were legally justified in doing

that because we were late.

And I don't think that -- that was

something -- I don't want to go into too much of our

legal strategy, but that was something that was very

disconcerting. It was a very difficult fact that

Mr. Grantham and I had to contend with in the Tenth

Circuit.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

That's all I have.

Mr. Grantham, any -- are there -- is he --

he's not technical, so he's not open to cross. Okay?

MR. FLYNN: No. I am open to cross.

MR. VOLKERDING: For other -- for PNM, et

cetera?

MR. FLYNN: For anybody.

MR. GRANTHAM: Right. Anybody who is present

here can cross-examine.

I will have a couple -- I will have a couple

additions when you're through with cross-examination.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.
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Let me ask PNM first if they have any

questions for cross.

MR. ALVIDREZ: We have no questions of the

secretary.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Gould?

MR. GOULD: Thank you.

I have a few questions.

Do I go to the podium, or --

MR. VOLKERDING: If you could, so that the

court reporter can hear you.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. GOULD:

Q. Good morning.

I don't know if this is on or not. It doesn't

sound like it.

Good morning, Mr. Hearing Examiner, members of

the Board.

Thank you for this opportunity.

I just have a few clarification questions.

Mr. Flynn, I appreciate your testimony. I

understand the difficulty that the Department was under,

having participated in some of the settlement

negotiations, and I know they were difficult.

But I do want to ask you a few clarifying
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questions about some of the side agreements.

You had mentioned in part of your testimony

that there is a side agreement to build certain amounts

of gas-fired generation at the current San Juan site and

also another related agreement to build a pipeline -- a

gas pipeline to that new plant.

Do you remember -- remember that testimony?

A. Yes.

Q. Would you agree with me that the decision of

which plant to approve if this plan is approved -- which

plant -- replacement plant is not within the

jurisdiction of this Board?

A. Yes.

Q. And is that jurisdiction about what

replacement power plant will be built or what plants

will be built -- is exclusively within the jurisdiction

of the Public Regulation Commission?

A. I believe that's correct.

Q. Okay.

And additionally, would you also agree with me

that the decision about allowing -- whether to allow PNM

to abandon San Juan Units 2 and 3 is also a matter

within the commission -- the New Mexico Public

Regulation Commission jurisdiction?

A. I would -- I believe that -- that is true.
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I would have to point out I am an attorney, I

am not a -- we're generally familiar with the process

going forward. I'm not a utility attorney. I'm not

really sure what role FERC would play in this process.

But I do generally believe that these are issues that

the PRC will be considering and ultimately be the

decision-maker on, on these issues. Yes.

Q. Okay.

And would -- if you know, would the Department

object to have it -- having specific language inserted

in whatever decision this Board makes specifically

acknowledging the jurisdiction of the commission to make

abandonment decisions and also new plant certification

decisions for PNM as a regulated utility?

A. I would -- again, I think I generally agree

with your -- with -- I generally agree that these are

issues that are -- that will be decided by the PRC and

they are within the jurisdiction of the PRC.

I wouldn't -- I would defer to my legal

counsel in terms of exactly what the Department would be

willing to or to not agree to as far as specific

language along those lines.

Q. Fair enough. Thank you.

Mr. Hearing Examiner, those are all the

questions I have at this point.
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Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

Are there any other members in the audience

who would like to ask any cross-examining questions?

With no hands, thank you, Mr. Flynn.

Appreciate your time.

MR. FLYNN: Thank you very much.

MR. VOLKERDING: If it's okay with the Board,

I would like to take a short break, so we can look at

the sign-in sheet on -- and get a feel for how much

public comment may be here, and -- Mr. Grantham, I'm

sorry.

MR. GRANTHAM: I'm sorry, Mr. Hearing Officer.

If it's okay with the Board, there's a couple

of additional comments --

MR. VOLKERDING: Oh, please.

MR. GRANTHAM: -- I would like to make.

MR. VOLKERDING: Yeah. Let's do those first,

then.

MR. GRANTHAM: They'll be quick, and I was

going to request a break, as well.

And I think these are in relation to legal

questions to the witness. And I think it's appropriate,

because he is an attorney and he was the general counsel

during those negotiations, but they're legal questions,
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so I think that it's also appropriate that I can respond

to those, as well.

And in terms of the question about the

possibility of EPA determining that this submittal is

also late and disapproving it on that ground, I would

point out that this Term Sheet is before the court.

We -- the parties are in mediation in the Tenth Circuit.

The court is well aware of this Term Sheet,

and that would -- the court would -- you know, to put it

mildly, would look very unfavorably on that kind of bad

faith by EPA, which I have no -- absolutely no reason to

believe that EPA has any such intent.

And I think it would be arbitrary and

capricious for EPA to change course having signed this

Term Sheet.

In regard to whether the -- whether it would

be appropriate to kind of wordsmith the provisions or

clarify the provisions of the Term Sheet as they are

incorporated into the SIP, I would echo Mr. Flynn's

concern with this being a negotiated document, and even

though there may be some vagaries in it, some of those

vagaries might have been intentional in order to reach

settlement.

And I'd also point out that, as you'll hear

testimony, there will be permit revisions to incorporate
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the terms of the Term Sheet, at least those terms of the

Term Sheet that actually impose operational requirements

on PNM, and that will be an opportunity to provide any

more clarity to -- that's necessary to make those

enforceable.

So if the Board has comments that we can take

back and consider in formulating those permit

conditions, that would be helpful, but I would encourage

the Board to -- other than perhaps some headings or

something of that nature, to as much as possible --

assuming that the Board ultimately approves the plan, to

leave the Term Sheet requirements kind of intact.

And those are the only comments that I wanted

to make.

Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you.

So we'll take a 15-minute break.

(Proceedings in recess from 10:38 a.m. to

10:52 a.m.)

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. We will go back on the

record.

I had a question on public comment. There

were a number of people who had signed up on the list,

and if I could get a show of hands of who is from out of

town that wanted to make public comment.
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Okay. So -- all right. Two of you.

Mr. Gould, you plan to stay for the duration,

though; is that correct?

MR. GOULD: Mr. Hearing Examiner, yes. I'll

be both here today and tomorrow, however long it takes.

MR. VOLKERDING: And Mr. Henke?

MR. HENKE: I would like to depart no later

than 3 o'clock.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

My plan is to do one session of public comment

before we break for lunch, and so I will have you start

with that one, and then we'll do a couple other people,

as well.

Will that work?

Okay. Thank you.

Yes, sir.

MR. BENALLY: I also have public comment, but

I need to leave by noon, also.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. We will at least get

the two of you in prior to lunch.

Any other logistical issues we need to cover

before I turn it back over to Mr. Grantham?

Okay. Mr. Grantham.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you, Mr. Hearing Officer,

Madam Chair, members of the Board.
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The witnesses have already been sworn in, so

I'll proceed with our first witness, Ms. Liz

Bisbey-Kuehn.

ELIZABETH BISBEY-KUEHN

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. GRANTHAM:

Q. Ms. Kuehn, please state your name for the

record.

A. Elizabeth Bisbey-Kuehn.

Q. And where are you employed?

A. I'm acting technical services manager of the

Permitting Section at the Air Quality Bureau, and I've

been with the Department since 2006.

Q. And can you describe your educational

background.

A. I have a bachelor of science degree in

environmental studies from the University of Iowa, and I

attended graduate school at the University of Kentucky

for soil science.

Q. And is what has been marked Exhibit 11a a

current copy of your resume?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. And what was your role with respect to the
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BART determination for the San Juan Generating Station?

A. I was assigned this project in 2006, and I

conducted the technical review of the original BART

application submittal, as well as all updated submittals

made to the Department. This update includes the April,

2013 submittal that was made to the Department which

contained the terms and conditions found in a tentative

agreement between the New Mexico Environment Department,

the EPA and PNM as part of the Term Sheet.

Q. And is that Term Sheet what has been marked

NMED Exhibit 5?

A. Yes.

Q. And the April, 2013 BART submittal from PNM,

is that what has been marked NMED Exhibit 6?

A. Yes.

Q. And with respect to that Term Sheet, can you

describe, kind of in the most fundamental terms, what it

provides for?

A. The Term Sheet provides the technical details

and conditions related to the shutdown of Units 2 and 3,

as well as the requirement to install selective

noncatalytic reduction on the remaining Units 1 and 4.

The Term Sheet also contains a requirement to

conduct testing on the SNCR to determine if a lower

emission rate is achievable for that technology.
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The Term Sheet also contains a lower SO2

emission limit. That emission limit is .10 pounds per

million BTU.

Q. And did you provide written testimony for this

proceeding?

A. Yes.

Q. And is that what has been marked NMED

Exhibit 11?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. And do you have any changes or corrections to

your testimony?

A. No. I have no changes or corrections to my

prefiled written testimony.

Q. Then do you adopt your testimony at Exhibit 11

as your testimony under oath here today?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. With respect to the BART analysis in Chapter

10 and Appendix D, do you have any corrections to that?

A. Yes. I did identify typographical and

transcriptive errors in both Chapter 10 and Appendix D.

Those related -- were related to typographical errors

which were then carried through in numerous places in

the document. Those errors did not affect the

underlying modeling analysis.

Q. And did the Department prepare an exhibit to
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provide more detail on that -- the nature of those

errors?

A. Yes. Exhibit 16 contains a detailed

description of the specific location of those errors in

both documents.

MR. GRANTHAM: I will submit that exhibit to

the Board at this time.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

Q. (BY MR. GRANTHAM) Turning to your written

testimony, you testified that the NOx BART determination

for the San Juan Generating Station was performed in

accordance with EPA guidelines.

Can you briefly describe the steps of a BART

analysis as provided for in the guidelines?

A. Yes. The guidelines prescribe five separate

steps that must be conducted for each case-by-case BART

analysis for each BART subject source.

Step 1 requires states to identify all

available retrofit control technologies that may be

installed at the BART subject source.

Step 2 requires states to eliminate all

technically infeasible control technologies.

Step 3 requires states to conduct a control

effectiveness determination. This is estimating the

amount of reduction of pollutant that could be expected
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to occur from the installation of a certain control

technology.

Step 4 requires an impacts assessment. The

impacts assessment is to determine the cost of

compliance for each technology, the energy impacts from

the operation of that technology, the visibility --

excuse me -- the nonair quality environmental impacts

from installation and operation of each control

technology.

And the fifth step is the visibility impacts

assessment, which determines the visibility improvement

that can be expected from the installation of each of

the remaining control technologies.

Q. And can you describe how the Department

conducted the five-step BART analysis for San Juan

Generating Station, the five-step process you just

described, focusing particularly on the new information

contained in the 2013 update?

A. Steps 1 and 2, the identification of

available -- all available retrofit control technologies

and, Step 2, the elimination of technically infeasible

control technologies, did not change from the 2011

analysis.

Step 3, the control effectiveness

determination, did change based on the terms and
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conditions of the -- of the Term Sheet and the

April 13th, 2013, submittal to the Department that we

zeroed out the emissions from shutdown of Units 2 and 3.

Step 4, the impacts analysis, also changed

considerably based on the April, 2013 submittal. The

cost of compliance changed based on new vendor-supplied

cost estimates for both the four SCR installation,

the -- and the previous state SIP, the four SNCR

installation, as well as the two SNCR installation,

two-unit shutdown scenario.

The energy impacts analysis also changed based

on the April, 2013 submittal. With the shutdowns of

Units 2 and 3, the energy required to operate any

control equipment on those units was effectively zeroed

out.

The nonair quality environmental impacts

assessment was changed substantially from the April --

the original state analysis based on the April, 2013

BART submittal.

There were significant reductions in NOx

emissions resulting from the shutdown of Units 2 and 3.

There were also significant reductions in water use in

solid waste disposal, in particulate matter emissions

resulting from the handling and processing of activated

coal -- I'm sorry -- excuse me -- activated carbon,
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coal, fly ash.

The fourth factor that we considered in the

impacts analysis is the remaining useful life analysis.

Because of the -- because the remaining useful life of

Units 1 and 4 extend beyond the lifetime of the control,

that did not impact -- or have an impact on the control

technology applied to Units 1 and 4.

The fifth step, the visibility impacts

assessment, also changed substantially based on the

April, 2013 submittal. As Gi-Dong will testify to

later, there were significant improvements in visibility

improvement over what the state had submitted initially

in 2011. The visibility improvements compared very

closely with the EPA's Federal Implementation Plan.

Those were the main changes.

Q. Thank you.

And based on that analysis, can you briefly

summarize the key quantitative findings the Department

considered in determining that the state alternative --

the state alternative being the two-units shutdown and

two-unit SNCR scenario -- that that scenario constitutes

BART for the San Juan Generating Station.

A. There are numerous reductions in emissions

resulting from the two SNCR installation and two-unit

shutdown scenario, the most significant being the
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reduction in NOx emissions of almost 13,000 tons.

There are also significant reductions in the

amount of raw material usage used at the facility. The

limestone required to control SO2 is being reduced by

approximately 90,000 tons per year. Activated carbon is

reduced by approximately 130 tons per year. The coal

combusted in these four units is being reduced by

approximately half, 50 percent.

The number -- the amount of diesel used in the

start-up of the emissions is also being reduced by

approximately 50 percent. The amount of water usage is

being reduced by approximately 50 percent. The amount

of solid waste and fly ash disposal is being reduced by

approximately 50 percent.

Q. And could you speak to the reductions in the

other pollutants other than NOx, comparing the state

scenario with the four SCR scenario.

A. All those -- although these are not visibility

pollutants, we do see significant reductions in other

pollutants with the shutdown of Units 2 and 3.

There will be approximately 50 percent

reduction in the volatile organic compound emissions,

50 percent reduction in the mercury and nonmercury metal

pollutants, up to 50 percent reduction in acid gas

emissions, as I mentioned before, approximately
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50 percent in particulate matter emissions.

There will also be a 67 percent in SO2

emissions.

Q. Thank you.

Earlier you mentioned some corrections to

Chapter 10 and Appendix D, and the Board has them before

them in Exhibit 16.

Does any of those corrections have any effect

on the ultimate conclusion that the state reached in

determining BART?

A. No. Those typographical and transcriptive

errors did not affect the Department's determination.

The change in the deciview is less than a quarter of a

deciview, and because one deciview is imperceptible to

the human eye, this is far short of something that would

be perceptible to a human observer.

Q. Okay.

And did the Department receive any public

comments on the proposed SIP?

A. The Department received public comment from

the National Park Service, as well as the Bureau of Land

Management.

Q. And are those contained in what has been

marked NMED Exhibit 8 for the BLM and NMED Exhibit 9 for

the Park Service?
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A. Yes.

Q. And with respect to what has been marked NMED

Exhibit 14, which is the Department's response to those

Park Service comments, were you involved in the

preparation of that document?

A. Yes. I drafted all the responses to those

public comments, except for those related to the

visibility impacts analysis, which Gi-Dong drafted.

Q. And finally, was public notice of this hearing

given in accordance with applicable requirements,

including 20.1.1 NMAC?

A. Yes.

Q. And are the notices of publication -- are

those what has been marked NMED Exhibit 7?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you have anything additional you would like

to add at this point?

A. No.

Thank you.

Q. Thank you.

I have no more questions for this witness.

It's my understanding we're -- we'll proceed

and then have cross-examination by a panel.

MR. VOLKERDING: Correct.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you.
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TED SCHOOLEY

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. GRANTHAM:

Q. Good morning, Mr. Schooley.

Can you please state your name for the record.

A. My name is Ted Schooley.

Q. And where are you employed?

A. I'm employed as a programs manager at the Air

Quality Bureau, and I've been employed at the Air

Quality Bureau since May, 2001.

Q. And can you describe your educational

background.

A. I have a bachelor of science degree in math

and physics and a bachelor of science degree in

mechanical engineering, and I'm a registered

professional engineer in the State of Louisiana.

Q. And is a current copy of your resume included

at Exhibit 10a?

A. This is correct.

Q. And what was your role with respect to the NOx

BART determination for San Juan Generating Station?

A. During the process of determining if any

viable alternatives to the BART Federal Implementation
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Plan were possible, I've been involved in the public

outreach process.

I was also a member of the technical

workgroup, and I was involved in negotiations between

Public Service Company of New Mexico, the Environmental

Protection Agency and New Mexico Environment Department,

which resulted in the term -- which resulted in an

agreed-upon approach to -- as laid out in the Term

Sheet.

Q. And did you submit a written -- any written

testimony for this proceeding?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And is that at Exhibit 10?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. And do you have any changes or corrections to

that testimony?

A. None.

Q. And do you adopt Exhibit 10 as your testimony

under oath here today?

A. I do.

Q. And in that testimony, you describe in some --

some detail the performance testing provisions that are

in the Term Sheet.

In general terms, can you describe what the

purpose of those performance testing provisions is.
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A. Section 1.c of the Term Sheet requires that --

the installation of SNCR emission control technology at

the San Juan Generating Station Units 1 and 4 such that

these units are limited to a NOx emission rate of

0.23 pounds per million BTU on a daily rolling 30-day

average, and -- basis.

And the purpose of the performance testing

under section 1.d of the Term Sheet is to ascertain

whether the -- a lower NOx emission level is -- can be

achieved, and if so, make that a requirement.

Q. And can you describe in general terms what the

testing program actually consists of.

A. The required testing is in three parts.

The first part is the SNCR performance

testing, and as part of the SNCR process, ammonia is

injected into the gas stream, which results in lower NOx

emissions.

The purpose of this test is to find an optimal

amount of ammonia to be injected into the gas stream

that will minimize these NOx emissions. And so this

ammonia injection rate will be the targeted injection

rate that's used in the third part of this testing

program.

The second test is the fuel performance

testing, and PNM can possibly reduce NOx emissions by
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pretreating coal that it uses as its fuel.

And the purpose of this fuel performance

testing is to -- protocol is to determine -- or to

demonstrate that this pretreatment coal technology does

not, one, measurably increase NOx emissions, and, two,

adversely impact the overall performance of the units.

If both of these are not adversely impacted,

the treated fuel shall be used in the third phase of

this testing.

The third phase of the testing is the

long-term performance evaluation period.

The purpose of the long-term performance

evaluation period is to determine a new, more

appropriate NOx emission rate if the long-term

performance evaluation period determines -- or indicates

that an actual NOx emission rate is -- are substantially

lower than 0.23 million -- excuse me -- 0.23 pounds per

million BTU on a daily rolling 30-day average emission

rate that is established in paragraph 1.c of the Term

Sheet.

Q. Thank you for that description.

And you mentioned -- you testified that you

are the manager of the Air Quality Permitting Program

with the Bureau.

With that in mind, can you describe what the
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permitting implications of the BART determination would

be.

A. If the Environmental Improvement Board

approves this State Implementation Plan, our plan is to,

within 60 days, revise the San Juan Generating Station

permit to incorporate the applicable requirements in the

Term Sheet, so that once EPA approves the SIP, the

conditions will be enforceable.

Q. Thank you.

No more questions for this witness.

I'll move on to the -- our final technical

witness.

GI-DONG KIM

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. GRANTHAM:

Q. Good morning, Mr. Kim.

Can you state your name for the record.

A. My name is Gi-Dong Kim.

Q. And where are you employed?

A. I am a modeling scientist in the modeling unit

of the Bureau's Planning and Policy Section. I have

worked in the modeling unit for 11 years.

Q. And can you describe your educational
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background.

A. I have a PhD and a master of science in

environmental engineering from the University of

Tennessee.

Q. And is what has been marked Exhibit 12a a copy

of your resume?

A. Yes.

Q. And what was your role with respect to the

BART determination for the San Juan Generating Station?

A. My role was to make sure that PNM visibility

modeling analysis was consistent with BART modeling

guideline and evaluate the visibility improvement of the

NOx control technology at each Class I area, using PNM

visibility modeling results.

Q. And did you submit written testimony for this

proceeding?

A. Yes.

Q. And is that -- is that what has been marked

Exhibit 12?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you have any corrections or changes to

your written testimony?

A. Yes. There are changes at a couple different

places on my written testimony, one of which is "PM

modeling" should be changed to "PNM modeling" on line 5
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on page 4.

The other one is "2013" should be inserted

before "PNM" on the line 6, page 4.

Q. Thank you.

And with those changes, do you adopt

Exhibit 12 as your testimony under oath here today?

A. Yes.

Q. And with respect to what has been marked

Exhibit 14, which, as I mentioned earlier, is the

Department's responses to the Park Service comments, did

you have any involvement in developing that document?

A. Yes, I did. I addressed on the issue of the

impact of ammonia slip from SNCR.

Q. And going back to your -- your role -- the

first part of your role in the BART analysis, how did

you determine if the air dispersion modeling submitted

by PNM was acceptable?

A. I confirmed that the PNM modeling was

performed with EPA-approved version of CALPUFF model and

all the modeling data compiled by EPA, including three

year of meteorological data from 2001 through 2003,

ammonia background concentration and modeling

parameters.

I also verified that the PNM visibility

modeling analysis was consistent with BART modeling
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guideline.

Q. So once you had determined that the

methodology used by PNM was acceptable, how did you then

evaluate the visibility impacts of the various control

technologies scenarios?

A. EPA-recommended method were used, one of which

is to determine 98th percentile deciview change at each

Class I area for each control scenario. The others are

to determine the number of days exceeding .5 deciview

and visibility improvement with NOx control technology at

this Class I area.

Q. And based on that evaluation, can you please

describe the visibility improvements of the various

control technologies at the 16 Class I areas?

A. Let me talk about the 2013 visibility modeling

result as performed on year-by-year basis for the

facility-wide impact for each control scenario.

The Figure 8 in Appendix D shows

98th percentile deciview change based on background

visibility condition, which are annual average natural

visibility condition. This figure shows that the

visibility impact at each Class I area modeled with 2001

million year of meteorological data are similar to those

modeled with 2002 and 2003 year of meteorological data.

I want to point out a couple things here, one
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of which is both state alternative scenario and

four-unit SCR shows less visibility impairment than the

other scenarios. The other one is the state alternative

scenario result in pretty much the same visibility

impact as the four-unit SCR does.

Figure 10 shows the number of days exceeding

.5 deciview at each Class I area. Like the modeling

result shown in Figure 8, this figure also demonstrate

that both state alternative scenario and four-unit SCR

scenario perform better than the other scenarios in

improving visibility.

More specifically, both state alternative

scenario and four-unit SCR reduce bad visibility days

exceeding .5 deciview by a factor of 2 from baseline.

The visibility improvement of NOx control on

top of the current control is shown in Figure 11 and

Table 22. As shown in Figure 11, both state alternative

scenario and four-unit SCR significantly improve

visibility at all the 16 Class I area than the other.

Table 22 shows the actual value of the

visibility improvement for each control scenario. There

are six relative values on the last column in the table.

I want to emphasize those six negative value indicating

that state alternative scenario outperform four-unit SCR

at six corresponding Class I area for the negative
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value.

In other words, those six Class I area will

have more benefit of the visibility improvement with

state alternative scenario than four-unit SCR.

Q. Thank you.

And just to reiterate, based on that Table 22,

is it correct to say that at each of the 16 Class I

areas the visibility difference between the state

alternative and the four SCR scenario is less than .5

deciview, based on Table 22?

A. Yes.

Q. Thank you.

I have no more questions for the witnesses at

this point.

I would like to move for admission of Exhibits

5 through 12a, including 10a, 11a and 12a, and

Exhibit 16.

And we stand for questions.

MR. VOLKERDING: Are there any objections to

the entrance of those exhibits?

MR. ALVIDREZ: No objections from PNM.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Hearing no objections,

they're so admitted.

(Exhibits NMED 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10a, 11,

11a, 12, 12a and 16 admitted into evidence.)
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MR. VOLKERDING: I'm just looking at the

clock. It's 11:20.

And let me ask the Board. I was thinking

maybe this would be a good time for NMED to break, open

it up to public comment, then we would break for lunch

and then come back for cross.

Does that work for NMED?

MR. GRANTHAM: Yes.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

Board?

MS. PEACOCK: Yes.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

Those -- I'd like to try and do public comment

kind of in groups of three. It's just easier to get

people down and up rather than one at a time.

So there were two of you that indicated you

wanted to go prior to lunch.

Is there anyone else who needs or would be

willing to go prior to lunch?

If not, we'll just do the two of you.

All right. Okay. If the two gentlemen in the

back and Mr. Henke would come down, we'll get you sworn

in and do public comment.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Yeah. Come on down and
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please -- yeah. We'll just go ahead and do it at the

table here so you can be heard and recorded.

Go ahead -- we'll go ahead and do all four of

you, then. Why don't we do that.

MR. CALDWELL: I can wait until afternoon if

you'd like.

(JAMES CRAWFORD, CLAYTON BENALLY, STEVE HENKE

and EVERETT F. CHAVEZ were duly sworn or

affirmed.)

MR. VOLKERDING: We'll start at one end of the

table and go down.

JAMES CRAWFORD

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: So would you state and spell

your full name.

MR. CRAWFORD: I'm James Crawford, J-A-M-E-S

C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D.

Okay. Mr. Hearing Officer, Madam Chair,

members of the Board, here we go again. The radical

global warming environment -- alarmist evangelists are

preaching Armageddon from their anti-fossil fuel pulpit

to the extreme detriment of us average electric

ratepayers. They are not going to be happy until
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affordable and reliable electricity is a thing we fondly

remember from our childhoods.

We are in the summer rerun period, revisiting

2011.

Supposedly this is about haze and visibility.

However, since there will be no detectible improvement

in visibility, the whole process is more about the

stealth war on San Juan and fossil fuel generation

stations in general.

First, we had the SIP you approved in 2011

that brought San Juan emissions within federal

guidelines for a mere cost to us ratepayers of about

$80 million. Even though the established guidelines

would be met, there would still be no detectible change

in visibility.

The SIP was approved by you, but it was not

good enough for the most radical, most evil anti-fossil

fuel evangelistic group on the planet, the US

Environmental Protection Agency. They wanted us

beleaguered ratepayers to fork over nearly a billion

dollars for modifications to San Juan. There would

still be no noticeable change in visibility to the

average person.

After a couple years of legal wrangling, we

have now arrived at a decision point on a compromise
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proposal. The compromise is embodied in a tentative

agreement between NMED, PNM and EPA. Unfortunately, the

agreement is tentative and nonbinding on EPA, who can

still reject the proposal. And this compromise will

only cost us ratepayers about $430 million. Gee, what a

bargain.

But wait. The compromise agreement also

includes closing down Units 2 and 3. So in the process,

we ratepayers lose half of the cheap reliable

electricity we previously had for only half the cost of

keeping it all. That does not make any sense. In other

words, we ratepayers are still paying the same price per

unit as in the original EPA dictate. Where is the

compromise in that?

Now the PNM ratepayers will be losing

340 megawatts of reliable, efficient electricity from

closing down San Juan Units 2 and 3. PNM is proposing

to install natural gas-fired units to replace the lost

generating capacity.

Natural gas, of course, would have much lower

emissions, easily meet the federal guidelines and still

provide reliable and efficient electricity. However,

I'm not seeing a cost estimate for installing the

replacement gas-fired units. So apparently these costs

will be in addition to the $430 million tab for
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modifying Units 1 and 4.

Meeting the emissions guidelines has never

been the objective of the radical global warming

evangelists pursuing their war on all types of fossil

fuels. Evangelists such as New Energy Economy and New

Mexico Coalition for Clean Affordable Energy have

already publicly expressed their displeasure and want

the 340 megawatts made up by renewables like wind and

solar.

Any idea that renewables can place -- replace

large-scale fossil fuel electric generation is grounded

in rainbows, butterflies and fairy dust.

It would take about 453 windmills to make up

the 340 megawatts lost from Units 2 and 3. Using PNM's

New Mexico Wind Center, which requires 264 acres per

megawatt, it would take 119,592 acres of windmills to

replace the 340 megawatts lost.

The area per windmill at the New Mexico Wind

Center is about half the national average. So in

reality, the land area would be -- much likely be

greater than the 119,000 acres. In fact, the new El

Cabo wind farm in Torrance County is using 121,000 acres

to support 149 turbines. That's about 800 acres per

windmill.

If we use PNM's recent 50-acre solar
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installations around the state, it would take about

17,000 acres of solar panels to replace the

340 megawatts lost.

So the costs and environmental impacts of wind

and solar are huge. Keep in mind that Mesa Verde, which

is the main beneficiary of all this foolishness, is only

54,000 acres. So it would take two Mesa Verdes of

windmills to replace the lost San Juan units.

So here we are in a catch-21 -- catch-22

situation. You're being left with no viable options.

You have to approve this proposed plan and then rely on

the roll of the dice with EPA whether they'll approve it

or not, with no guarantee that they will.

We ratepayers are going to be saddled with the

same costs per unit of electricity whichever way it

goes. We only pay half as much up front but only get

half as much power, which we'll have to pay to replace.

So we're screwed either way.

Thank you very much.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

CLAYTON BENALLY

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your
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full name, please.

MR. BENALLY: Yes. My name is Clayton

Benally, C-L-A-Y-T-O-N, Benally, B-E-N-A-L-L-Y.

Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, as a

member of the community, I support the revised State

Implementation Plan for San Juan Generating Station.

And I urge you also to support it, as well.

I am a member of the local community. I grew

up here in -- in Shiprock. I live now in Waterflow,

which is a stone's throw away from the plant.

And I've actually worked at the plant on

outages in my younger days and stuff. So you might --

you can say I put my dues in, you know, working night

shift and working the short outages and everything.

And I've also worked at the mine, you know,

which supplies coal to the plant. And so they're --

they're interlinked there and stuff.

And I have friends and family that work there

still, you know, and they make a decent living. They

spend their money here in the community, in the City of

Farmington, on the Navajo Nation, as well. They pay

their taxes and everything.

You know, and they will continue to do so.

They've earned their good money there. They're the top

wage earners in the county, if not the state. And it
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allows them to send their -- send their kids and stuff

to schools, like here, San Juan College. You know, that

benefits from these wages and everything.

And my kids, they've gone to colleges here,

not here at San Juan College, but, you know, Fort Lewis

College and stuff, and that -- the money I've made there

has helped provide an education for them, as well.

Professionally, I work for the Local 953 of

the operating engineers. You know, we represent the

workers at the power plant, the maintenance workers, not

the full-time workers, the maintenance, as well as

construction, as well as members that work at the mines.

In the beginning, we supported PNM in their

efforts with the State Implementation Plan, you know,

and the FIP, and now the revised plan. We're concerned

with the longevity of the plant, and we're concerned

about the longevity of the mine, because they're

interlinked and everything.

We've negotiated these wages with the company

at these -- the wages and the benefits that our workers,

our members they enjoy. You know, and then, you know,

these wages and everything is spent here, and the local

communities -- the communities benefit from these jobs.

And we don't want that to end. We're very

concerned about that, especially now with the attack on
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coal energy. You know, you're not only -- you're seeing

this at PNM, you're seeing this at APS and other plants

in the area.

You know, and so, you know, we -- we

believe -- I believe personally -- this is just -- this

is me speaking -- that this is a good -- how do you say

it -- it benefits both parties, you know. You got

your -- you got your natural gas, and you got your coal,

you know.

So I think the company's bent over backwards

to make this happen. And please, you know, take in

consideration some of the people here in the local

communities that support the plan. We urge you to

support it, as well.

Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

STEVE HENKE

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MR. HENKE: My name Steve Henke. It's

S-T-E-V-E H-E-N-K-E.

I'm president of the New Mexico Oil and Gas
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Association. I represent members who drill for and

produce 95 percent of the oil and gas in the State of

New Mexico.

First of all, Mr. Chairman and members of the

commission, I want to thank you for your service to the

citizens of New Mexico.

And you're in a tough spot here. You know,

you're being asked to choose between some alternatives,

all of which appear to have some adverse economic impact

in the Four Corners.

And just it -- in terms of introduction, I've

got quite a long history with San Juan Generating

Station. I was hired as a college student to come up

and do some vegetative inventory prior to mining in the

1970s. And I worked for the Bureau of Land Management

in Farmington for almost two decades, in the '80s, and

then again from 2001 to 2010.

So the Bureau of Land Management had a fairly

strong relationship with PNM, San Juan Coal Company, La

Plata Mine. You know, I was here at the Bureau of Land

Management from the permitting to the monitoring

compliance and -- and reclamation for -- for La Plata

Mine and authorization of the haul road.

And in addition, my older brother was

maintenance manager out at the station for most of the
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1980s.

So I understand the importance of that plant

to the economy of the Four Corners.

And, you know, we look at the foundations of

economic development and prosperity in Northwest New

Mexico. You look at the oil and gas industry, you know,

the power plants and the associated mines, the increase

in the medical field, certainly the educational growth

that will be experienced through San Juan College.

It's tough getting a parking spot here this

morning, so it's pretty active here at San Juan College,

and -- and being a retail center.

But it's -- I think we're faced with a

difficult choice in terms of, you know, how do we meet

the federal standards here and, you know, balance that

environmental concern with the economy of -- of

Northwestern New Mexico.

And, you know, to highlight the divergence of

opinion here, looking at the Daily Times this morning,

you know, I've got former colleagues and friends on both

the County Commission and the Farmington City Council,

and they're not in agreement in terms of path forward on

this issue.

So I certainly respect the difficulty of the

decision in front of you.
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With that being said, the New Mexico Oil and

Gas Association and its members are here to endorse the

State Implementation Plan, and we do that for several

reasons.

You know, the first of which is it does appear

to meet the federal mandate, and through modeling, I

think we've heard evidence and data that would indicate

that the State Implementation Plan meets what EPA is

asking us to do.

You know, secondly, I believe that it provides

the best prospect long-term for the preservation of jobs

in the Four Corners region, not only through PNM's

commitment to handle, you know, the loss of jobs through

attrition, but also the prospect of providing a lift, if

you will, some opportunity in the natural gas sector to

provide abundant, clean natural gas to replace the loss

of the coal generation from Units 2 and 3.

And as you all are well aware, Northwest New

Mexico has struggled economically with the downturn in

oil and gas, particularly with natural gas prices being

depressed. And certainly the New Mexico Oil and Gas

Association wouldn't endorse a proposal that would

increase the demand for natural gas, and that is a

cornerstone of PNM's proposal to replace some of that

generation, you know, up to 200 megawatts with the --
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with the natural gas station.

And as the previous speaker indicated, we feel

that conversion to natural gas will have less impact

long-term because there is existing gathering,

transportation infrastructure for natural gas in the

Four Corners, and many of the wells, up to 50 percent of

the new wells that are drilled in the San Juan Basin are

on existing pads, so that further minimizes the

environmental impact.

The proposed plan from the state is less

costly and -- and offers some protection for the

ratepayers. You know, again, it's a choice between

unpalatable options, you know, 800 million, 400 million.

You know, the ratepayers will ultimately absorb that,

but I think the State Implementation Plan, you know,

minimizes the best it can that impact to ratepayers.

And as I mentioned, the proposal -- if there's

a switch to natural gas, I think there's minimal

environmental impact in terms of new surface

disturbance. We may have to select a new pipeline route

to feed that natural gas plant, but there are many

existing corridors in Northwest New Mexico, substantial

infrastructure, you know, to provide that natural gas.

So for the reasons I stated, not the least of

which is the opportunity to increase the demand for
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natural gas, the New Mexico Oil and Gas Association

endorses the adoption of the State Implementation Plan,

and I appreciate the opportunity to comment in front of

you today.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

EVERETT CHAVEZ

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MR. CHAVEZ: My name is Everett F. Chavez.

I'm from the Pueblo of Santo Domingo, for

those of you who may not know, between Albuquerque and

Santa Fe.

I have the worst luck. I always end up being

the last speaker that precedes lunch. So hang on. I'll

try to make this brief.

I am a former three-time Governor from my

pueblo, and also I have run environmental programs for

the 19 pueblos of New Mexico. I'm personally an

engineer by profession.

Now, what I'd like to say endorses the state

plan, because as a tribe -- and as tribes, we always get

impacted by mandates from Washington, all having to do
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with compliance, not just environmental laws that are in

place, but many other things.

And believe me, compliance is quite costly, I

think most of you are finding out. And mandates from

Washington is not new to us as tribes, and consultation

is also not one of the strongest suits of the federal

government, where we're all impacted.

I know that the larger impact economically

will be felt in the Four Corners, but it also affects

all of us along the Rio Grande corridor, because there's

a lot of us users that depend on PNM.

And we're talking about some of the cost

impacts to some of the least able people, that have

fixed incomes and fall below poverty level, I'd say, and

so definitely there is an interest that -- that we seek

for something that is a reasonable solution to these

things.

And it looks like the joint -- or the pursuit

of the state plan is the least impactful, because, as I

said, the owners have to pass on this impact to the

users, and there's many of us that are connected, even

though we have been collaborating with people that

provide the power, including PNM, to create alternative

sources.

And it looks like all of the technology and
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all of the modeling and all of the things that have been

provided to us seem to suggest this is the most

practical solution.

So I would ask this body, this honorable body

to support the state plan, because it really, for the

first time that I have seen, forces some collaborations.

Many of us have begun to collaborate with the state

governments as well as the federal governments to find

the most practical solutions to many of the things that

challenge us.

And so the collaboration between the impacted

parties I would encourage also to continue to seek some

tribal input. I'm happy to hear that, I guess, the

Navajo Nation President will be here.

I do want to -- in case you're wondering why

I'm so far away from home, I happen to have stole a

Navajo woman about 40 years ago, so this is really part

of the country she's from, so I'm not really that far

away from home. So I have family that have been and

continue to be employed by the power stations.

And so I would also similarly seek the support

from the PRC to follow suit with what I think is an

excellent practical solution. It's going to be hard

getting away from the costs to address the Clean Air

Act, but again, I think what was reported to us is that
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much more than just the NOx will be addressed.

We're going to be looking at probably cleaner

and better air, and that's coming from an original

environmentalist. As tribes, we're charged to make sure

we protect Mother Earth, and we do everything we can.

But again, sometimes we have to seek the practical

solutions.

I do want to say one other thing that's

important, why I say consultation with tribes is

important. Some of us happen to live in those corridors

where all of the energy is transported from one end of

the state to the other, from interstate highways, power

lines, as well as natural gas lines and rail systems

that transport energy and the economy throughout the

state.

So thank you for allowing us to have a say in

what we feel is -- at least in my mind, as I represent

my tribe, is a practical solution, that we certainly

support the State Implementation Plan.

Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

I think we have one more who would like to

go -- or two more prior to lunch, and after that, we

will wrap up for the morning.
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(CARLA SONNTAG and JAMES PIOCHE were duly

sworn or affirmed.)

CARLA SONNTAG

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name.

MS. SONNTAG: My name is Carla Sonntag,

C-A-R-L-A S-O-N-N-T-A-G.

Good morning, and thank you for allowing me to

speak.

I'm Carla Sonntag. I'm the executive director

of the New Mexico Utility Shareholders Alliance.

We are a grassroots operation throughout the

state, representing shareholders of utility companies

operating in New Mexico. We've got about 12,000 members

statewide.

On behalf of the New Mexico Utility

Shareholders Alliance, I would like to express support

of the revised State Implementation Plan to address

alleged regional haze at San Juan Generating Station.

It is very concerning that we are once again

considering a revised SIP. It doesn't appear that the

problem lies with you, the members of the Environmental
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Improvement Board, and we appreciate the many hours that

you've put in on this project.

The problem appears to be with the

Environmental Protection Agency and its mission to shut

down the nation's coal-fired electric generating plants.

This revised plan, with which the EPA has at least some

tentative agreement, will result in closing two out of

four units at the San Juan plant, which is a great loss

to the state.

While we are concerned about the loss of these

units and the costs to replace the power produced by

them, we support this plan for the following reasons.

The revised SIP is the best alternative given

the choices that we have right now.

It will meet the visibility requirements, if

approved by the EPA, and also make potential progress

towards complying with President Obama's greenhouse gas

initiatives. While we neither agree with nor support

the President's initiatives, we recognize the reality of

what is no doubt coming next to this plant and others.

It is preferable to at least attempt to get

ahead of those yet undefined requirements while making

the required visibility changes at this plant.

Combining the visibility requirements along

with anticipated future environmental regulations, we
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see this revised SIP as a longer-range plan that may be

beneficial in the following ways.

It could provide better planning and

continuity for PNM by possibly getting ahead of the next

round of regulations being developed by the EPA.

By addressing possible future regulations

while complying with the visibility requirements, this

plan could save ratepayers costs in the long run.

This plan will reduce elements related to

visibility as well as those related to greenhouse gas.

In addition, it's going to greatly reduce the amount of

water used at the plant.

The NMUSA respectfully requests the EIB

approve this plan and that it work diligently with PNM

and others to acquire the approval of the EPA. We would

like to see the work begin and PNM, along with its

shareholders and ratepayers, have at least some

certainty as to the direction of changes at this plant.

Thank you very much.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

JAMES PIOCHE

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: And would you state and spell
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your full name, please.

MR. PIOCHE: Hello.

My name is James Pioche, and I am -- I am --

I'm the president of the Tse Daa K'aan Chapter, which is

west of the San Juan Generating Station, and we're

actually neighbors.

And -- and I am in support of PNM and state

plans, because naturally we are a farming community, and

we have farmed the land for hundreds of years, as we and

the community try to strike the right balance of living

our lives as Navajo people, as farmers and as

sheepherders.

One of the greatest strengths of our community

is that we are located near the great economic

opportunity in San Juan County. Many of our members

work at the San Juan Generating Station and the Four

Corners Power Plant.

I've worked at the Four Corners Power Plant

myself for seven years, but with an itchy feet that I

have, I had to resign and travel the world a little bit.

So I ended up back in college in San -- San Francisco

State University.

So from the onset of the whole regional haze,

we have been involved, and we have been active in

discussion all summer long with the future of the San
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Juan Generating Station.

Of course, we would prefer that all units stay

open, but we also understand compromise, and compromise

is important to the -- so there is certainty in our

future, so that we can plan and do our best to prepare

for what comes next.

We were happy to hear that in crafting the

agreement in principle PNM agreed to construct a new

natural gas plant in San Juan County; an opportunity for

local constructions jobs, and an agreement by PNM not to

lay off any of our generating station employees affected

by the two-unit closure, which includes our own chapter

members; contributing to -- $1 million to the Navajo

workforce program.

And the goal was to minimize the economic to

the Four Corners area, and the plan helps answer that

goal.

As a chapter, we worked with PNM to implement

the Navajo Workforce Training Program this summer.

Through San Juan College and Navajo Technical

University, many of our members will be able to obtain

training and education to further their career goals in

energy.

Create opportunities to our people -- for our

people is what we want, and the agreement in principle
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not only mitigates the economic impact but also creates

future for many of our people, especially the Navajo

youth.

On behalf of Tse Daa K'aan Chapter, I'm here

to present a resolution from the people and to the Board

in support of the adoption of the revised state

implementation for San Juan Generating Station.

Thank you very much.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

Okay. With that, we will break for lunch.

MS. PEACOCK: I had --

MR. VOLKERDING: Oh, okay.

MS. PEACOCK: Thank you.

I want to say the Board especially appreciates

the public comment, and thanks for coming to talk with

us. Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Let's shoot for 1:30 to

reconvene.

Thank you.

(Proceedings in recess from 11:58 a.m. to

1:36 p.m.)

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. It looks like -- I

think everyone who needs to be here at the moment is

here, so we can get started.

Mr. Grantham, you want to have your panel come
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back up?

ELIZABETH BISBEY-KUEHN, TED SCHOOLEY and GI-DONG KIM

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Let's go back on the

record in hearing EIB 13-02.

We're at a place to start cross-examination

for NMED witnesses.

And so I will ask the Board if there are any

questions from Board members.

EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MS. PEACOCK: I'll say something.

Dr. Kim, this is not as much of a question as

a comment.

I wanted to say I really loved your bar

charts --

MR. KIM: Thank you.

MS. PEACOCK: -- and Figures 2 and 3, and I

was glad to see that those were incorporated into the

draft SIP.

MR. VOLKERDING: Do you have a question?

MS. PEACOCK: No.

MR. KIM: Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Are there any other Board
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questions?

I have some, but I was going to go last, so --

go ahead.

MR. FULFER: Earlier we talked about the

number of jobs lost.

Are all the jobs going to be retained on the

coal mining side?

MR. GRANTHAM: Member Fulfer, I think that's

outside of the scope of the testimony of these three

witnesses.

MR. FULFER: Of those. That's true.

Another one I had, though, on the technical

side is -- talked about the .23 pounds per million BTU

to be monitored and maybe to create a lower limit later

on.

Is there going to be a limit on the time

before PNM has to -- before the -- before additional

work is required of them?

MR. SCHOOLEY: Madam Chair, Hearing Officer

Volkerding, members of the Board, let's see. On here,

we have -- in the Term Sheet, that would be covered in

section d.iv. Let me look and refamiliarize myself with

this.

So the requirement is that the -- if the

demonstration -- if the demonstrated emission rate is
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less than .2 pound per million BTU on a daily rolling

30-day average basis PNM will apply for a permit

modification by March 31st, 2017, and that is to codify

that -- the reduction required by this part of the Term

Sheet and to a permit.

And depending on the type of modification

necessary, that would take either probably 90 day --

or -- excuse me -- 30 days or 90 days after that

application was ruled complete to do that, and then once

the application to -- or -- excuse me -- to issue the

permit -- once the permit has been issued, then after a

short break-in period, then that emission limit would

become immediately effective.

MR. FULFER: Let me see if I'm following you.

If it's .23, and it's that for a rolling

period of time, that will become what's --

MR. SCHOOLEY: Well, the .23 would be --

become effective immediately if that's what the

determination is, is .23 -- and after the permit

issuance. But regardless of what the final emission

limit is, it will have to be put into a permit, and then

once it's put into the permit, it will become effective

after a break-in period.

MR. FULFER: So if it's a .18, that will

become their new monitored -- or their new level that
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will be set?

MR. SCHOOLEY: The Term Sheet specifies that

if it's -- if the actual emissions are below 0.20 pounds

per million BTU, then whatever the -- the difference

between .023 and whatever it is -- in your case, let's

say it's .18 -- then 60 percent of that difference will

be put into the permit -- an emission rate 60 percent of

that difference lower than .23 will be put in as the new

emission rate in the permit.

MR. FULFER: Okay.

Back to --

MR. SCHOOLEY: So they will need a little bit

of a safety factor, and it's not really a viable, you

know, method for them to demonstrate compliance if they

don't have some kind of safety factor, so we give them

that 40 percent safety factor.

MR. FULFER: Well, back to my question, once

that is determined, is there a time period -- say, are

you going -- can they -- EPA or New Mexico, the

Environment Department -- go back to PNM in six months

and say "You got to do another $400 million worth of

upgrades," six months or a year or two years?

Is there a time period that says that they can

have at least maybe 10 years or -- is there a time

period in there that -- what's to keep them from coming
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back and saying "We're going to be right here again,"

like we were two years ago, and we're back here two

years and we're restarting a lot of this again?

What -- is there anything in the Term Sheet

that addresses that, that we don't have to come back

here in two years again?

MR. SCHOOLEY: Member Fulfer, the -- we can

only address what's in front of us, and what's in front

of us is -- says that, you know, we -- we have very

definite performance testing and then very definite

limit that's going to be established by this SIP, and

that will not be able to be changed once the long-term

performance evaluation period is done and its -- and its

requirements put into a permit.

Whether EPA comes up with any new

requirements -- and I'm not sure if that's your

question -- I can't speak to that, because I have no

idea to be able to predict that -- how to predict that.

MR. FULFER: Okay. Thank you on that.

On the chart of -- let's see if I can get to

that chart.

On Table 10-2 -- I have it on page 10-5 -- can

you kind of explain that chart to me?

I'm not really understanding what the

98th percentile for each year -- what those numbers mean
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there.

MR. SCHOOLEY: What page are you on?

MR. KIM: Are you talking about Table 10-2 in

Appendix D?

MR. FULFER: Let me look here.

MR. GRANTHAM: I believe that would be in

Chapter 10.

MS. PEACOCK: Chapter 10.

MR. MORROW: Here it is, if you want it.

MR. FULFER: Yeah, Chapter 10.

MR. MORROW: Here.

MR. FULFER: Page 10-5.

MR. KIM: Thank you.

Let me -- Hearing Officer, let me -- to

understand the values in the -- this table, let me tell

you what 98th percentile means.

CALPOST model post-processor, which is part of

CALPUFF modeling system, calculate the deciview value

which is visibility -- which is measuring visibility.

For each Class I area, the CALPOST model calculate

deciview value at each receptor, which are hypothetical

point where the CALPOST model calculate predicted

deciview value.

Model calculate all the -- what is the

deciview value at each receptor for each day. What that
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mean is each receptor point has 365 deciview value for

one year modeling. 98th percentile means high eighth

high value, which means high eighth high days that --

you know, the deciview values out of 365 predicted

deciview values.

The numbers shown in this table is high eighth

high value from 365 days. And those numbers are the

deciview values. Deciview values are -- deciviews are

the measures of visibility. Higher visibility number,

higher deciview value means worst visibility condition.

Lower deciview values shown in this table means better

visibility condition.

MR. FULFER: Okay.

Does that -- can you come to a conclusion

through those numbers that what percent New Mexico is

contributing to, like you said, the Mesa Verde?

MR. KIM: Mesa Verde is the nearest Class I

area, okay, about 40 miles north of facility. The --

could you -- could you say it one more time, sir?

MR. FULFER: I'm just curious if from these

numbers can you tell what actually New Mexico is

contributing to the visibility of Mesa Verde National

Park.

Is there a breakdown from New Mexico and other

states, from what they contribute to it?
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MR. KIM: This is just for impact of facility

at each Class I area. So this one does not include any

visibility impact from other sources.

MR. FULFER: Okay.

Is there a chart that shows the visibility

impairment that New Mexico contributes to that Mesa

Verde?

MR. VOLKERDING: If I can try and help.

The chart that's before us, the table that's

before us, that is what New Mexico -- and basically it's

just the San Juan Generating Station -- contributes.

MR. FULFER: For visibility?

MR. VOLKERDING: For visibility.

They don't incorporate other sources into that

table, if I'm understanding.

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: Right.

MR. VOLKERDING: And so there's not a table

that then shows cumulative visibility impacts from all

other sources.

Is that correct?

Because that would not be part of a

single-source BART determination. We're looking at one

source, which is the San Juan Generating Station, and so

they wouldn't be looking at all the other potential

sources elsewhere.
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MR. FULFER: So like on -- I don't know what

other chart to reference besides 10-2 -- is -- the

three-year average is 5.4. Is that a -- what is that?

Is that a percentage of --

MR. KIM: Oh, in the case of Mesa Verde, you

see 90 percentile deciview value for 2001 year of data

and 2002, 2003. The values shown on the last column in

this table is average value of three numbers.

MR. CASCIANO: Are these values deciview

values, or are they number of days per 365, like you

said earlier?

MR. KIM: Deciview values.

MR. FULFER: Okay. Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Are you done?

Okay.

Any other questions from the Board members?

Mr. Casciano.

MR. CASCIANO: Yeah. I want to just make sure

I understood the NOx calculations correctly.

And starting with Table 24 in the BART

determination, the current baseline that you show,

current scenario, is that a permitted value, 21,000 tons

of NOx? Is that the facility's actual or the current

permitted?

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: That's based on the
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facility's current permitted NOx emission limit.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay.

And then you mentioned 13,000-ton reduction.

Is that from that value?

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: That 13,000 --

MR. CASCIANO: Estimated with shutting down

two of the units and applying --

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: That's correct.

MR. CASCIANO: -- nonselective.

And of that 13,000, how much is from shutting

down the two units, and how much is from the new control

units on the remaining two?

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: It's about 8,000 tons

resulting from the shutdown of Units 2 and 3.

MR. CASCIANO: So that would be a gain of 5 --

or a reduction of 5,000 tons per year from applying the

control technology to the remaining two units?

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: More or less 5,000 tons.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay.

Switching to the National Park Service memo

that NMED responded to, can you talk a little bit about

the -- I actually was concerned with the language in the

National Park Service memo and then the attached

documentation.

So I guess my first question is did the
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National Park Service share any additional technical

information to back up their statements beyond the twoor three-page kind of technical summary they had

attached to their -- their two-page memo with the

Department?

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: They did provide

spreadsheets estimating their estimated total capital

investment and annualized costs and emissions reductions

based on their own analysis of the performance of best

available technology.

MR. CASCIANO: I wanted to comment that I

thought the Department's response was very well done,

and again, I didn't appreciate the Park Service, you

know, saying the modeling was flawed when they just made

different assumptions than the Department did in the

modeling, and I think you did a very good job of

explaining why you made the assumptions you did for

the -- for the modeling.

Was there any response from the Park Service

to your response, or has there been?

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: Not that I know of.

MR. CASCIANO: Okay. Thank you very much.

That's it, John.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

Any other questions from -- okay. I have a
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couple.

And first is for Mr. Schooley.

During your oral -- and maybe I misunderstood

it. That's why I wanted to just kind of clarify it.

You were talking about all the hypotheticals

if -- if the Board approves this -- this petition, that

the Department is going to revise PNM's construction

permit to incorporate the new emission limits prior to

EPA agreeing; is that correct?

MR. SCHOOLEY: Madam Chair, Hearing Officer

Volkerding, we've been in full discussion with --

ongoing discussion with EPA, and we fully intend to --

to provide them with the draft permit for their comments

before we issue the permit, and even further than that,

I think we're in basic agreement as to what that

permit's going to contain.

So even now, you know, even before the permit

has been, you know, required -- not required, but the

application has been received.

MR. VOLKERDING: So I guess -- you know, the

Board hasn't been privy, which is fine, to all the

negotiations that have taken place with, you know, EPA,

PNM and NMED, and it does sound like NMED has kind of

some warm, fuzzy feeling that EPA is going to go along

with approving the SIP if the Board were to approve it.
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I'm going to say I have a slightly different

just feeling based on how things have happened. I'm not

saying I'm right, I just have a different feeling.

So my question is what if EPA does not hold up

their end of the bargain, NMED is now issued a new

construction permit with lower emission limits? Where

does that leave PNM, I guess is kind of my worst case

scenario type question.

MR. SCHOOLEY: Hearing Officer Volkerding,

that's a very good question.

The -- it would be very difficult for EPA to

not, you know -- or to comment adversely on this

permitting action, because it's simply going to

incorporate the requirements of the Term Sheet virtually

word for -- well, it will be essentially quoted out of

the Term Sheet.

So it will be -- that is agreed upon language

that everybody signed off upon. And there will be a --

the permit will then have three operating scenarios in

the permit, and there will be clauses that give

exceptions if certain -- you know, for instance, there's

not final SIP approval or whatever.

So yes, PNM is intended to be protected within

the permit.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you.
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And I had a question on the timing in the Term

Sheet. It confused me. And part of it just seems a

little, I don't know, unrealistic, but maybe -- again,

since we're in the negotiations, it's hard to understand

all of the thought processes.

In 1.c of the Term Sheet, SNCR is to be

installed on all four units by January 31st of 2016? Am

I reading that right?

MR. SCHOOLEY: Hearing Officer Volkerding,

this is correct.

MR. VOLKERDING: And yet within 24 months --

MR. SCHOOLEY: Excuse me.

Well, yes. Excuse me. It's 1 and 4.

MR. VOLKERDING: Just 1 and 4.

MR. SCHOOLEY: That's correct.

MR. VOLKERDING: Oh. I read that as 1 through

4.

MR. SCHOOLEY: No. That's 1 and 4.

MR. VOLKERDING: So that answers the second

half of the question. So -- all right.

MR. SCHOOLEY: Yeah. My mistake.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Then my question's

null and void. All right. Thank you.

MR. SCHOOLEY: Apparently we made the same

mistake.
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MR. VOLKERDING: On the -- on PNM obtaining a

modified permit to lower the sulfur dioxide emission

limits, I got confused as to whether -- because there

was a comment by, I think, the Park Service that this

was merely a paperwork exercise.

So I guess my question is is there -- are

there any actual physical changes that will be taking

place at the plant to actually reduce their emissions,

or is the permit simply capturing where they're at today

and making it an enforceable limit?

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: There won't be any

modifications required to the facility --

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: -- to achieve .10, but it

is significantly tightening the emission rate of SO2.

MR. VOLKERDING: Sure. No, absolutely. I

mean, it does increase the enforceable emission limit,

right --

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: Correct.

MR. VOLKERDING: -- or increase the

enforceability. I understand. I just didn't know if

there was any physical change that needed to be made.

Okay.

This is probably for Dr. Kim.

In terms of the deciview difference between
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what was the 2011 SIP and now the revised SIP, what's

the difference between those two?

MR. KIM: There are major difference.

One of the differences is 2011 visibility

analysis was performed with nonregulatory version of

CALPUFF models. CALPUFF model is EPA model, but there

are different -- the only 5.8 version is approved

CALPUFF models, but the 2011 visibility analysis was

done with nonregulatory version of CALPUFF models, but

2013 visibility analysis was done with the regulatory

version of CALPUFF model.

The other difference was 2013 visibility

modeling analysis was done with revised emission rate of

SO2, total particulate matters, what is it, inorganic

condensable PM and NOx.

MR. VOLKERDING: And so that was not done in

2011; is that correct?

MR. KIM: No. But --

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MR. KIM: -- the other big thing is state

alternative was not considered for 2011 visibility

analysis, but that is brand new things for 2013's

visibility modeling analysis.

MR. VOLKERDING: I think those are all the

questions I have.
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Any other Board questions before I --

MR. FULFER: I had one follow-up questions.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MR. FULFER: I'm still confused a little bit.

How much -- let me see if I word this -- maybe

it makes a little bit of sense.

How much visibility impairment does New Mexico

do to, say, the Mesa Verde National Park versus the

other states?

Do we emit enough emissions compared to the

others?

I guess I'm wanting like a percentage. Are we

100 -- 90 percent more than the other states affecting

that, or are we only half of 1 percent?

MR. GRANTHAM: Member Fulfer, part of your

question may go to the next hearing, which is with

respect to New Mexico's obligations towards other states

in not interfering with their State Implementation Plan.

And that's -- it's really in that context of the

different section of the Clean Air Act, the

Section 110.(a)(2)(D), the good neighbor provision, that

those kind of interstate effects were looked at through

modeling of the Western Regional Air Partnership.

And I think in that -- I'm not saying it would

be -- we can answer it in the next hearing any better
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than in this hearing, but I think that the -- that that

model would have been done by the Western Regional Air

Partnership, and it's not part of the modeling for this

BART determination that is just looking at the impacts

of the San Juan Generating Station.

Perhaps Dr. Kim can speak to if the modeling

incorporates other sources besides PNM in that modeling

regardless of whether -- where they're located or what

state they're located in. I'm not sure if he can or

not, but I think your question is kind of not addressed

by the modeling that Dr. Kim testified to,

unfortunately.

MR. FULFER: I guess where I -- this kind of

concerns me is the -- in one of the case laws that I've

heard talk about New Mexico, that one of the federal

judges says we make such a small part of the emissions

compared to the United States that it wouldn't even be a

needle in the haystack.

So I'm curious if we'd studied that to see if

we really are affecting, say, these other -- these

national parks to -- at a significant level that -- that

we're singled out by the EPA on this case.

And that's just my general observation. You

don't have to answer that. That's the reason I'm

looking for the information. Okay.
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MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

Mr. Alvidrez, any cross-examination of the

Department witnesses?

MR. ALVIDREZ: No, Mr. Hearing Officer.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

MR. ALVIDREZ: No cross-examination from PNM.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

Mr. Gould?

MR. GOULD: I just have a couple questions.

MR. VOLKERDING: Sure, please.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. GOULD:

MR. GOULD: My question is very specific, and

it's for -- Mr. Schooley; is that correct?

MR. SCHOOLEY: That's correct.

MR. GOULD: And I'm referring to page 7 of

your testimony that was prefiled in this matter.

MR. SCHOOLEY: Okay. My -- Mr. Gould, I'm on

page 7.

MR. GOULD: Yeah. About halfway down the

page, line 15, you talk about the performance -- the

fuel performance testing. And this relates to the

pretreating of the coal that is anticipated to begin

sometime next year.

Is that a fair statement?
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MR. SCHOOLEY: Yes, that is.

MR. GOULD: Would you describe in more detail

what you mean down on line 20 that there is a potential

adverse impact on overall unit operations? What does

that -- what does that entail?

MR. SCHOOLEY: Mr. Gould, the -- that's in

there to protect PNM in case it is determined that the

fuel additive in question damages the units in any way

so, you know, that we won't -- you know, they -- they

need to ensure that those units are not adversely

impacted, because we don't want a degradation of them

and a loss of their capital investment.

The --

MR. GOULD: Is there a potential that this

fuel treatment could actually improve the operation of

the coal plant, or is that not known at all?

MR. SCHOOLEY: That's not known, because

the -- it has -- this technology has not been tested at

the -- to an extent at the San Juan Generating Station,

and so it would be difficult to respond either way.

MR. GOULD: Okay.

Is it just because of some specific

circumstances at San Juan that it's not known, or is it

just the technology that's not well tested generally in

the coal industry?
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MR. SCHOOLEY: Mr. Gould, I'm -- I think I'm

probably the wrong person to be asking this question. I

would think that PNM should speak to that, because this

is proprietary technology, and the New Mexico

Environment Department has not seen the technical

details of this technology at this point.

So I think PNM would probably be better in a

position to answer this question.

MR. GOULD: Thank you, Mr. Schooley.

Thank you, Mr. Hearing examiner.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

Are there any questions from members of the

audience for this panel?

Okay. Seeing none, Mr. Grantham, anything in

closing?

MR. GRANTHAM: Mr. --

MR. VOLKERDING: Or --

MR. GRANTHAM: Mr. Hearing Officer,

Ms. Bisbey-Kuehn did have one correction to an answer

she gave earlier upon re-examining some of the

materials.

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: Yes. Relating, Madam

Chair, Hearing Officer Volkerding and other chair

members -- Board members, I had quoted the reduction of

NOx from Units 2 and 3 to be around 8,000 tons per year,
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and the correct number is 10,200 tons per year.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

MS. BISBEY-KUEHN: Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you very much.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you.

Mr. Hearing Officer, I would just like to draw

your attention, and Madam Chair, members of the Board,

that I believe President Shelly from the Navajo Nation

is here, and if -- at an appropriate time, the Board may

wish to take -- reopen for public comment.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you. Thank you for

letting us know that.

Mr. Alvidrez, would that work for PNM, to have

the President give comment first?

MR. ALVIDREZ: Absolutely.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you.

So we will go to public comment and allow the

President of the Navajo Nation to address the Board.

BEN SHELLY

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. SHELLY: Ben Shelly, B-E-N S-H-E-L-L-Y.
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That's it?

Madam Chair, I believe you are the Madam Chair

of this wonderful Board, and Board members, all of you,

good afternoon.

My name is Ben Shelly. I am the President of

the Navajo Nation.

I thank you for the opportunity to offer

comment today in support of the alternative State

Implementation, SIP, for San Juan Generating Station.

That's what I'm here for.

The proposed alternative plan offer cost

effectiveness within a realistic time frame while

maintaining consistency with the Clean Air Act and

Regional Haze Rule, and at the same time supports

continued dedicated efforts among the Navajo Nation, New

Mexico and EPA to balance environmental protection with

economic prosperity.

One other thing I have always talked about in

my support is job. We have some middle class workers

within the mine right now. Our people, the Navajo

people, are middle class workers. We start eroding

their work area, we're putting them in the poorhouse,

and I don't think we want to do that.

I respect the alternative presented in New

Mexico proposed, and I have noted that their proposal
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acknowledged my concern about job loss and catalytic

reduction, SCR, technology on all four units at San Juan

Generating Station.

I got it mixed up here.

Addressing potential economic impact in the

region.

I usually use my iPad. This is the first time

I use my paper that I forgot.

I hope the EIB and the EPA will also recognize

the important aspects of the proposed -- proposed --

proposal that will be beneficial in mitigating job loss

throughout this region.

The San Juan Generating Station is a major

employers in the northeastern portion of the Navajo

Nation. Approximately 88 of the 400 employees,

22 percent, at the plants are Native American, most

being Navajo. About 230 of the San Juan mine 500-person

workforce -- workforce, approximately 46 percent, are

Native American, with most also being Navajo.

In addition, many of the temporary workers

hired during time scheduling maintenance at the SJGS and

the major contractor for the San Juan Generating Station

are comprised of mostly Navajo employees. The plant,

mine, contractors, subcontractors and other seasonal

workers represent about 318 household of the Navajo
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Nation in the highly paid job that are about 2.75 time

higher than the average Navajo Nation household income

about 20,000 a year.

The loss of this job will be devastating to

the household and indirectly and directly to many Navajo

people.

And we also are going to be suffering as

taxpayers. As you sit there, the Board, you're going to

have to feed these people on -- when you lose a job,

what is that? Then you go to -- you apply for

unemployment. And that's going to come out of the state

fund. And that's really -- realistic.

And the federal government is going to be

suffering from that on food stamp. Oh, food stamp

another one, too. So there's a -- there's a potential

of great loss to Navajo -- to the State of New Mexico's

income.

I prefer the alternative proposals over the

proposed federal rule. The federal rule will require

about $1 billion to install expensive

selective catalytic reduction, SCR, technology on all

four units at San Juan Generating Station.

The federal rule has a potential to cause loss

of job at the plant and the mine and causing further

economic impact in this whole region.
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This is a matter that I have been concerned

about for more than a year. I am concerned about job

loss. I am concerned that EPA proposed action to

require SCR as BART for San Juan Generating Station will

cause job loss because the cost to install SCR is very

expensive.

The estimated cost to install SCR is about 740

million. EPA estimate is -- estimate is 345 million.

The state plan includes a commitment to work

with the Navajo Nation in providing opportunity for

training and workforce development to lessen economic

impact for work -- for workers who may be affected by

the change and to eventually be laid off by offering

alternatives to move workers in to compatible or new

construction job.

This includes a PNM commitment of more than

$1 million for workforce training and economic

development in the Four Corners area and commitment by

PNM to have no layoff as result of closure of Unit 2 and

3.

I -- this simply -- well, I don't know why we

make this kind of work. All it is is PNM is helping

people that are going to be laid off to give them

alternative career, to get training for, and they offer

$1 million to train the Navajos, and this is going to
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the college here, San Juan College, 200,000, to another

college institution, to train them so they can get --

find jobs somewhere else. And that's all it is.

Where we are? Number 3? 4?

EPA, New Mexico and the Navajo Nation are

responsible for job creation and improving our economy.

And me and the Governor Martinez have been saying that.

We're very supportive of no job loss and revenue, and

for state and nation.

We're just as responsible to work in balancing

environmental protection with economic prosperity. It

just needs to be balanced, and we need to work together

in that. It is possible for a decision that will be

both -- or do both.

Environmental. The state plan will require

less cost installation of SNCR, and there will be

reduction in no NOx emission, including visibility

improvement, and there will be less threat to jobs and

the local and regional economy.

The costly proposed federal plan will reduce

only no NOx emission. The state plan will reduce no NOx

emission, the PA -- PM, sulfur dioxide and other

emission that contribute to visibility impairment. In

addition, the state plan will reduce greenhouse gas

emission, reducing the amount of water needed to
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generate electricity.

The state proposed plan include a commitment

by PNM to construct a 150 to 200 megawatt natural gas

peaking plant in Four Corners area. And we do have a

lot of natural gas, as you know, in this area. This

plan will be the replacement of power loss from the

shutdown of Unit 2 and 3 at San Juan Generating Station.

The state plan includes the lay -- the

installation of SNCR by more than a year.

In my conclusion, my position had been that

BART for San Juan Generating Station should be SNCR on

all four units. This is still my preference. However,

New Mexico developed another plan as an alternative to

the costly federal plan.

This new state plan encompass my concern and

prospective regarding impact to the Navajo Nation and

the region. I am supportive of the state alternative

plan. This plan is an important step forward in meeting

the requirement of federal visibility rule and

maintaining the economic impact to the region.

And again, on my PS to the Board, I have been

advocating no job loss, no unit -- no unit reduction in

some areas, because to the nation interest it does

reduce cost -- revenue to our nation and also a loss of

job to our Navajo people. This has always been my
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position, Region 6, Region 9, and that's what I've been

saying.

So again, with this alternative plan that

state provided to you is -- to me, it's something that

it does -- my concerns are addressing that area of job

loss.

So with that, I thank you for listening to me,

and I appreciate -- I'm happy to be here. I got so much

thing going on, I -- there's a fair going on. You're

welcome to come down.

The fair -- the parade is the biggest time to

come down. There's about -- oh, we have maybe a million

kids up there, head start, high school kid. There --

the whole Window Rock area is full of it this morning.

Buses and -- hundred buses out there, you know, in the

parking lot.

So you're welcome to come down, and invite

everybody that's here, interested in come down, have

some fry bread, mutton stew and Navajo tacos. They're

great.

Than you very much.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

(Discussion off the record.)

MR. VOLKERDING: Can I get a show of hands of

how many other people would like to make public comment,
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as well, just for planning purposes.

One, two, three, four -- Mr. Alvidrez.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes, Mr. Hearing Officer.

I was made aware that there are two Navajo

Nation chapter presidents that are currently here, as

well. We would certainly defer to allow the Board to

hear from them in this juncture.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you.

And of those that have raised their hands, how

many of you are from out of town?

Anyone else?

Okay. Let's -- okay. So why don't we have

the two chapter presidents, the gentleman in the back,

and -- yes. Yes, sir, since you said you're from out of

town. And Ms. Crawford. Have the four of you.

MRS. CRAWFORD: Yeah.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. That would be great.

(RICKIE NEZ, NORMAN BEGAYE and DONNA CRAWFORD

were duly sworn or affirmed.)

RICKIE NEZ

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.
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MR. NEZ: Good afternoon, ladies and

gentlemen.

My name is Rickie Nez, R-I-C-K-I-E N-E-Z, Nez.

And I'm representing the San Juan chapter, a

chapter located to the south, neighboring Kirtland, New

Mexico, with about 600 Navajo members. I am the chapter

president and served in this capacity for four years.

Also, I am the chairman of District 13, which is

comprised of four Navajo chapters.

As a local governing entity within the Navajo

Nation, we represent the interests of our constituents.

As a chapter, we believe that in order to be

self-sustaining we must have a strong community base

derived from our own Navajo culture and values. This

base includes access to education and the promotion of

economic development and quality jobs.

Over the past three years, our community has

been listening and providing our perspective to the

ongoing discussions about the future of our good

neighbor, San Juan Generating Station.

The original State Implementation Plan for the

San Juan Generating Station proposed by the State of New

Mexico required all four units at the San Juan

Generating Station to add the selective noncatalytic

reduction technology, but that plan was not approved by
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the EPA, and the EPA then adopted a Federal

Implementation -- Implementation Plan which required

installation of selective catalytic reduction

technologies on all four units.

Our interest as a key stakeholder community is

to ensure that choices related to the power plant have

the least impact to the economy and environment of our

area.

When we heard about the Federal Implementation

Plan, we made our views known and spoke against the

Federal Implementation Plan because we were extremely

concerned about its impact on jobs and the economy --

economic opportunity.

We also knew that the cost of installing the

technology called for by the Federal Implementation Plan

was so expensive that the operator of the plant, PNM,

appealed EPA's action to the federal court.

Nationally, we also knew harsh economic

conditions for coal-powered plants and costly

environmental regulations led to numerous planned coal

plant closure announcements across the country with

little discussion about the negative local economic

impacts brought on by coal plant closures.

San Juan Generating Station faced similar

economic conditions and environmental regulations as
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well as nearby Four Corners Power Plant and other Navajo

coal plants.

Again, as a Navajo Nation chapter, we followed

the issue and had discussions about what to do. After

due consideration by the San Juan Chapter, we support

the revised State Implementation Plan for San Juan

Generating Station because it represents the best

compromise.

With the agreement in principle, it includes

the installation of the less costly selective

noncatalytic reduction technology and includes

substantial local mitigation commitments by PNM for the

closing of two units at San Juan Generating Station by

constructing a new natural gas plant in San Juan County,

an opportunity for local construction jobs; an agreement

by PNM to not lay off any San Juan Generating Station

employees affected by the two-unit closure, including

our Navajo Nation chapter members; and contributing

$1 million over five years to the Navajo Nation

Workforce Training Program.

On behalf of the San Juan Chapter, I present a

resolution before this body on behalf of also Upper

Fruitland Chapter in support of the adoption of the

revised State Implementation Plan for San Juan

Generating Station.
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And I would like to also again thank San Juan

Generating Station for their support to the local

communities, and thank you very much.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

NORMAN BEGAYE

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. BEGAYE: My name is Norman Begaye,

N-O-R-M-A-N B-E-G-A-Y-E.

Good afternoon, Madam Chair, Board. Welcome

back to Farmington.

My name is Norman Begaye, and I represent the

Nenahnezad Chapter as the chapter president.

The Nenahnezad Chapter is located between the

two area power plants. With over 1,100 Navajo members,

there is no other community that has been most affected

by the operation of the neighboring plants over the last

several years.

As a local community entity with the Navajo

Nation, we represent the interests of our constituents.

Our community is fortunate to live near the

center of the jobs with Navajo people enjoying
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longstanding careers provided by the power plants and

related mines that supply coal to the two plants.

I have family members and other people from

our community that have earned a good living for and

have been able to provide for their families. In our

culture and beliefs, we are taught to take care of our

family that extends well beyond the traditional family.

So one paycheck sometimes extends well beyond our

immediate family members. With that in mind, I hope you

can appreciate the difficult economic impacts that will

be facing -- that we will be facing with our -- with

unit closures at both power plants.

This is why I'm personally taking a stand to

be involved and ensure the interests of the chapter are

represented.

As a chapter, we followed the -- we followed

the -- and discussed about the -- what to do on the

last -- the last two years, and I'm here today to

express support on behalf of Nenahnezad Chapter for the

revised State Implementation Plan for San Juan

Generating Station, because it represents the best

compromise.

Many of us are not completely happy with the

impending retirement of Units 1 and 2 because it impacts

further job opportunities of Navajo people in our -- in
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my community. There are quality jobs that are not easy

to replace. But our chapter does support it as the best

scenario for meeting BART.

My chapter understands the need to find a

reasonable course towards an agreement that will result

in meeting the Regional Haze Rule, lessen job losses and

impacts to the economic -- or regional economy. Not

only does it lessen impacts to the local economy, it

also demonstrates environmental leadership and

significantly reduces emission.

I also commend PNM for their -- for their

comments to the -- to the Navajo Nation Workforce

Training Initiative that will provide $1 million over

five years to help educate and train our future Navajo

workforce to new and different fields and career

critical to the area.

Please allow me to present a resolution before

this body on behalf of Nenahnezad Chapter in support of

the adoption of the revised State Implementation for San

Juan Generating Station.

Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.
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DONNA CRAWFORD

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

MS. CRAWFORD: Good afternoon, Hearing

Officer, Madam Chairman and Board members.

My name is Donna Crawford, and I'm here as a

member of the rate-paying public.

I have a question. Who is speaking for,

caring about and lobbying for the ratepayers in this

state?

My point is that it is certainly not groups

such as the New Energy Economy, the Coalition for Clean

Affordable Energy, the Western Resource Advocates, the

Sierra Club and many more. These groups want renewables

to replace the soon-to-be shuttered coal-fired units at

San Juan and Four Corners power plants. They will

accept nothing less.

PNM put forth a perfectly reasonable plan for

replacing the two San Juan units, replace the two coal

units with a new natural gas generating plant at the

same site, plus additional electricity from the Palo

Verde Nuclear plant and 78 megawatts from the remaining

units at the plant. But that's not good enough.

These radical green groups will accept nothing
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less than wind, solar and biomass to power our

electricity, no matter that it's unreliable, and

particularly no matter what it costs. Cost is not a

factor to the green crowd. If we all have to pay way

more for electricity, that's okay with them.

The thing that the green crowd doesn't want

the general public to know is that the more renewables

that are forced on our utilities, the more utilities

have to build peaking plants to provide an even flow of

electricity to New Mexico consumers. Hence, the high

cost of renewables.

Oh, wait a minute. I forgot that they're

totally convinced that renewables are all we need to

live in their utopian world.

And we have to ask ourselves of these same

people, including the EPA, do they care about the

economy of our state and country?

I think not. The fact that the oil and gas

industry is what built the economy of this great country

means nothing to them. They're willing to tear it down

as long as they can have their precious wind and solar.

Oh, wait a minute again. I forgot that

they're going to create jobs in the green energy

industry. They keep ignoring the fact that for every

green job created, two-and-a-half regular jobs are lost.
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And in May of this year, according to the Institute of

Energy Research, the Department of Energy has spent 26

billion, that's with a B, since 2009 on loan programs

which only yielded 2,308 permanent jobs, meaning the

cost to taxpayers was 11.25 million per green job.

Most of the aforementioned green groups have

lobbyists who live in Santa Fe and are constantly

pounding away at the legislature, the PRC, PNM and all

the other utilities to do their bidding. But who is

speaking and lobbying for the ratepayers?

The green lobbyists know that the average

citizen doesn't have time to come to Santa Fe to rail

against their green agenda, and they're taking full

advantage of that. So here's the score: Ratepayers,

zero; greenies, every hit out of the ballpark. They've

had their way on every issue.

Let's keep in mind that it has never been

proven beyond a doubt that renewables have any

significant effect one way or the other on the

environment. Somebody has to be the voice of reason in

this regional haze plan. And I certainly hope that you

will approve the revised SIP.

Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: I was going to ask

Mr. Alvidrez -- about how long do you think your direct
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will be?

MR. ALVIDREZ: I think 30 minutes at most.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Then if it's okay with

you, I'd like to try and go through the rest of the

public comment prior to your testimony -- or your

group's testimony.

Is that okay with you?

MR. ALVIDREZ: That will be fine.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

So those of you who are here from the public

who are still waiting to provide public comment, I

guess, raise your hands. I was going to keep track of

the head count.

Looks like there's four of you. So why don't

you just -- all four of you come on down. Five of you.

Okay.

Come on down.

(Discussion off the record.)

(DIANA LUCK, PETER GOULD, JOE GONZALES and

CHARLIE DUNSWORTH were duly sworn or

affirmed.)
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DIANA LUCK

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Spell your full name, please.

MS. LUCK: I am Diana Luck.

Good afternoon to everybody.

Thank you for giving us this opportunity.

I am Diana Luck, a resident of San Juan

County. I'm a retired PNM employee, and I'm here to

speak in favor of the proposed State Implementation Plan

for San Juan Generating Station.

As a resident of the area, I believe that the

state plan is superior to the federal plan as far as the

environmental benefits are concerned, especially with

regard to the water usage being reduced by 50 percent.

As a volunteer of one of the area's watershed groups,

this is an especially attractive benefit.

I believe that all of us would like to see the

reduction in the regional haze, but I think we have to

wonder at what cost can we afford to do that. And we

need a balance.

As a -- as a customer, I'm also concerned that

the state plan doesn't get -- if the state plan doesn't

get approved -- I'm sorry -- the federal rule will
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remain in effect for San Juan Generating Station, which

I understand is estimated to cost 800 million, leading

to higher consumer electric bills. As a retired person,

that's a scary thing, you know.

As a former employee, I'm very proud of PNM

for their concerns for the local economic impacts that

retiring these two units would have and that they have

stepped up and offered to offset that impact.

PNM has agreed to build a natural gas peaking

plant and associated pipeline in the Four Corners area.

As a retired PNM gas employee, of course, I think this

is great, that we're going to use gas now.

So PNM has also agreed to no layoffs as a

result of the closure. It has agreed to contribute more

than a million dollars to job training initiatives in

our area.

And I just want to thank you for this

opportunity to speak to you in favor of the state's

plan.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

PETER GOULD

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

MR. GOULD: Good afternoon, Madam Chair, Board
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members, Mr. Hearing Officer.

My name is Peter Gould, G-O-U-L-D.

I am general counsel of the New Mexico

Industrial Energy Consumers, and I am here on behalf of

my membership to support the revised State

Implementation Plan.

Very briefly, who we are. New Mexico

Industrial Energy Consumers represents members who are

the largest users of electricity on PNM's system. We

represent corporations as well as public entities in

this effort.

And our main concern has always been keeping

electric rates reasonable, because electricity for many

of my clients is their largest single bill. And so,

therefore, it's directly related to the affordability of

the products they make or their services that they

provide to the public.

We are in support of the State Implementation

Plan even though we are very well aware that it will

mean higher rates for all ratepayers, but we think that

this is the best outcome given the reality of the

situation.

As many commenters have stated before you this

afternoon, and the designee Secretary of the Environment

Department himself has stated, this is not something
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that New Mexico is choosing to do voluntarily. This is

a direct result of top-down directives from the EPA.

And as Mr. Flynn stated, he was in a no-win

situation where even if he prevailed in the Tenth

Circuit, he was looking at a situation where he was

simply going to go back to a EPA with -- how should I

put it kindly -- with a closed mind that was going to

come back and simply re-order the same result that they

had ordered before.

And so this is -- this is, I think, a lesson

to all citizens about the dangers of a runaway federal

bureaucracy that none of us locally have much control

over, even though there are very, very many statements

to this Board about how this will impact the local

economy and the statewide economy.

I was just reading something the other day, a

report by Bloomberg, in which they looked at the

economic health of all 50 states and the District of

Columbia, and the sad news is from the '95 to 2011 time

frame New Mexico, in terms of economic health, comes in

dead last. I mean, that's shocking.

We all know it in our personal lives. We see

it in our families. We see it in the -- in the

businesses that have -- that have left the state. But

as I say, this is the best solution because it gives us
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more flexibility going down the line.

I want to compliment the Governor's office,

the NMED and PNM for really working with all the

stakeholders to come up with -- with this solution, and

I -- and I would recommend to the Board that you approve

it.

I would add one caveat, and this is done very

respectfully. The New Mexico Public Regulation

Commission does have the jurisdiction to determine how

we're going to deal with that 418-megawatt hole that

this is going to put in the middle of PNM's resource

mixes, and I would respectfully ask this Board not to do

anything that would prejudge that.

There are going to be some hearings at the end

of the year and into next year in which the whole

resource mix is going to be examined, and we're going to

have -- we're going to have an opportunity to look at

what would be the best alternative in terms of a number

of different plants at a number of different locations.

So I would just respectfully ask this Board

not to -- not to do anything in its order that would

prejudge that effort.

And thank you very much for the opportunity to

make a comment.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.
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JOE GONZALES

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MR. GONZALES: Joe Gonzales, G-O-N-Z-A-L-E-S.

I'm here on behalf of the support of the SIP

plan that you all have been listening to.

I don't think I could add a whole lot of new

comments that are -- that haven't been said and said

very well all morning and this afternoon, but I want to

thank you all personally, because you have a very

difficult task. You have two things that you're -- have

to do.

You have to have the skill sets to listen to a

lot of technical data and be able to listen. That's a

key part.

And the other part is you have to hear a lot

of emotional issues, and those are even more difficult,

and then you have to choose and have all the data to

back you up, because darts come from everywhere. They

can't stop them. It just happens that way.

And I happen to know, because I did retire

from PNM in 1996. I was -- I brought my family in 1972
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to help build and start up the San Juan Generating

Station. I was the manager of plant operations for

several years out there. I know how complicated these

issues are. I dealt with nine different owners from

five different states. They all have different

governances.

And as an example, the City of Farmington has

the -- the electric utility manager, and they report to

the city manager, and they report to the City Council.

Now you take nine owners. So you get into a situation

that you all are dealing with, with all these

stakeholders and listening to all the different

rationale, and we've come down to this. We've come down

to a point where somebody is saying "We need to go this

direction."

And we had our former mayor, Tom Taylor -- he

wrote a commentary in our Daily Times just a few days

ago, and it said "The San Juan proposal is not ideal,

but it's our best option." And we have heard all the

reasons for that this morning, all those reasons that it

is our best option.

And I can't say I know how difficult your task

is, but don't worry about the darts, because I think

you're going the right direction. You've listened,

you've asked questions, and, like I said, you've had the
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skill sets and the knowledge to be able to listen to all

that technical stuff.

So I appreciate you. I can't say any more.

I'd like to put in Tom Taylor's commentary

from the -- I guess, part of the record from The Daily

Times just to say I'm in support of this and, of course,

our former Mayor of Farmington was in support of this.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

CHARLIE DUNSWORTH

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MR. DUNSWORTH: C-H- -- or Charlie Dunsworth,

D-U-N-S-W-O-R-T-H.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

I appreciate this opportunity.

As you might see from my gray hair, I go back

a little bit of time. And my personal feeling on some

of this is I regret seeing the changes in the visibility

that have happened since late '50s, early '60s, from the

Grand Canyon -- I didn't know what was causing it at

that time -- all the way to where I live now, in
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Dolores, Colorado. I spent 54 years, most of that in

New Mexico. Retired from PNM, as well, in 1991.

I can't add a whole lot more than what's

already been said, but I do back the company's plan. It

is the best option, I feel. It may not clean up the

environment for the visibility part of it the way I

would like to see it done -- I don't know that that will

ever happen -- but it's not anyways near what it used to

be, as I wish it were.

But I can't say that I ever expect that to

happen. We do need the electric energy.

There's not much else that I think I can say

about this, except that, yes, I have seen the visibility

decline since long before San Juan came into existence.

Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

R. G. HUNT

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: State and spell your full name,

please.

MR. HUNT: Yes. My name is R. G. Hunt, and

I'm from Waterflow, New Mexico.

And I appreciate you people listening to me.
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One thing I can say about the Public Service

Company in New Mexico, it has created a lot of jobs for

a lot of people. But the reality of it is it's been in

business for 40 years, and when they created it, they

drawed it up, they made it to where it was most -- it

made the most money it could make.

But the sad part about it, why didn't they

turn around and go in there and say we need to do

something about the emissions out of that power plant?

They did nothing. And everything that they fouled up

on, they had to fight them tooth and nail in court.

And like I say, they dumped this river sludge

down behind my house, into the river, over a million

gallons a day, ten tons of salt every day, right into

the San Juan River, polluting the river, not -- with no

concern about the people downstream.

And, you know, when you see stuff like that,

and then they go out there and they dump all their fly

ash out there, and one of these days them people are

going to drive off, and when they drive off, they're

going to leave the biggest mess for us to take care of

you ever seen in your life.

And just like the last litigations with the

Sierra Club against PNM, they got their letter of

intent. So what they decided, they decided they would
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fight the damn thing. So the first thing they did when

they went down, they hired a bunch of lawyers. They

hired lawyers as far as Washington, DC.

They had a few around locally, just like on

the environmental done -- the environmental science of

it. Some of them come out of Denver. Another one come

out of Durango. What the hell's wrong with the people

here in the State of New Mexico? We need the jobs here.

Just like the drilling company, they come in out of

Arizona. What's wrong with our drilling companies?

It's a shame to see something like that

transpire and go on. And just like I say, that stuff

runs through my property every day, every day, with

total disrespect, no concern for you or nothing, just

like a bunch of bullies, just like a bunch of bullies on

a playground. There's no excuse for it.

And, you know, when you look at that they was

out there drilling some test wells here a week or two

ago, you know, none of the experts from the Sierra Club

was out there with them, going over that stuff. And you

just see that time after time after time for no reason.

And they quoted me in the newspaper about PNM

and BHP don't give a damn about the environment nor the

people in the community. And just like on the air

monitoring stations they had, it was upstream from the
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jet stream, rather than down there on the river, where

the most of the people lives, big -- and, you know, why

do they do stuff like that? What's the reason for it?

And just like I say, I've heard several times

here, "We're good neighbors, we're good neighbors." You

know, there is no excuse for that. And it looks to me

like the politicians in the State of New Mexico, a

little contribution towards campaign contribution buy

you a whole third world country. And, you know, there's

no excuse for it.

And, you know, the jobs -- I'm all for the

jobs in the area, to supporting them, but the only thing

I can say, people, make them people shoulder their damn

responsibility, rather than run from it, because there's

tremendous amount of profit in pollution.

And just like I say, they spent 10s of

millions of dollars to defend themselves on the Sierra

Club litigations, where they could have went down and

probably resolved the whole thing for 2 or 3 million.

And just like I say, I get my light bill, they

cost -- the power cost adjustment, my light bill goes up

25 percent because of that nonsense. And I said to

myself, I said, you know, poor management. That's

what's wrong with them, poor management.

No, it's not. They knew exactly what they was
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doing when they opened that plant up, and they still

know exactly what they're doing today.

And just like I say, tell them to shoulder

their responsibility, just like anybody else. If my kid

or one of my grandkids makes a mess, they better clean

it up. And that's the way PNM should be, also, because

they should be held to the same standards, rather than

being above the standards. That's acceptable.

You guys got any questions, ask me.

MR. VOLKERDING: No.

Thank you for being here.

MR. HUNT: Thanks for listening to me.

MR. VOLKERDING: I was going to propose a 10-,

15-minute break, and then we will start up with PNM's

direct testimony.

Thank you.

(Proceedings in recess from 3:00 p.m. to

3:11 p.m.) stop

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Let's go back on the

record in EIB 13-02, and we'll turn it over to Public

Service Company of New Mexico.

Mr. Alvidrez.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes, Mr. Hearing Examiner,

Madam Chair, members of the Board. Thank you very much.

Rick Alvidrez on behalf of Public Service
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Company of New Mexico, and I have a very few brief

opening remarks.

But first I would like to thank the Board

members for their participation and hard work in

connection with this proceeding. We are fully cognizant

of the fact that you have jobs outside of your public

service, in your capacity as Board members, and this

takes time away from your family, away from your jobs,

and it's a very important function that you carry out.

So please know that we appreciate your efforts in that

regard.

I also have to apologize, because it seems as

though lately when I appear before you we're doing a

hearing we've done before all over again. We're back

once again on a regional haze BART rule. But I hope

this is the last time that we'll have to be before the

Board on this issue.

As indicated in our filings in this case, we

fully support the revised State Implementation Plan as

proposed by the New Mexico Environment Department.

I hope that by now the Board recognizes that

this revised plan is very much a compromise, that based

on the comments that you've no doubt received you see

that some people think it's -- it's too much, in terms

of what it requires, others think that it doesn't go far
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enough.

And what I can tell you is that it is the

result of negotiations over many, many months, difficult

negotiations, and that it represents a very delicate

balance, one that achieves the necessary visibility

reductions to meet the Regional Haze Rule requirements,

and also at the same time mitigates the ratepayer

impacts to PNM's customers here in New Mexico that would

be imposed if the FIP were required to be implemented at

the San Juan Generating Station.

Another feature, of course, as outlined in the

testimony, is it includes many significant environmental

benefits that would not be available under either the

state-approved plan or the federal plan, so that is

actually kind of a bonus in terms of what this rule will

bring about if you adopt it.

But I do want to emphasize that it is a

delicate balance, so extreme caution. I would urge the

Board to exercise extreme caution in trying to tinker

with it, because if you modify something that, you know,

doesn't result in as great a visibility improvement, we

run a risk that the EPA won't approve this.

On the other side, if more is required in

terms of emission controls and what have you, the

economics start changing very quickly, and the plan then
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loses efficacy from a ratepayer impact standpoint. So

we'd urge the adoption of the rule as proposed.

I do think it's also important to put this

rule and this process in some perspective. This is the

very first and very critical step, first step, in what

is going to be a very long regulatory process to

implement in full the Term Sheet.

And the question before this Board is really a

rather narrow one, and that is whether the revised SIP

should be adopted. And specifically what the Board

needs to determine is whether the revised SIP meets the

five-factor BART analysis so that the plan that is

proposed represents a Best Available Retrofit Technology

for San Juan Generating Station, specifically with

regard to NOx emissions.

There are going to be a series of other

regulatory approvals. Some have been mentioned here

today.

Of course, the issue of the retirement of the

two units is not wholly within PNM's control by any

means. It's going to require approval by the New Mexico

Public Regulation Commission. I'm glad to see we have

staff here and we actually have a commissioner here

that's been present during these hearings.

Likewise, the replacement generation capacity,
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including the peaking plant, that is called for under

the Term Sheet is something that's going to have to be

subject to NMPRC review, as well, and there are a number

of other regulatory approvals including FERC and the

other owners' regulatory bodies that are ultimately

going to have to pass on the efficacy of the entire

plan.

But what is before this Board is the critical

first step. Without it, we really can't proceed with

the terms of the Term Sheet, and so we would request

that you adopt the NMED proposal as -- as submitted.

One final comment I do want to make relating

to some timing issues, because there's been a lot of

discussion about New Mexico having missed deadlines and

EPA having missed deadlines, and this was an issue that

actually came up in the context of the challenges in the

Tenth Circuit to the Federal Implementation Plan.

And we had to make it clear on the record in

that case, and I'd like to make it clear on the record

in this case, that none of those delays were caused by

anything that PNM did, that PNM, as the operator of the

San Juan Generating Station, has timely filed everything

that needed to be filed in the complete, you know,

format, and that, you know, to some extent, we're

victims -- not to point fingers, but we're victims of,
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you know, the regulatory and bureaucratic --

bureaucratic process that, you know, is applicable.

But the delays are not something that were in

any respect created by PNM.

So with that brief opening statement, if I

may, I'd like to turn to our witnesses, and I think

maybe time to swear them in.

(KYLE LUCAS, DIANE FISCHER and RAJ P. GAIKWAD

were duly sworn or affirmed.)

MR. ALVIDREZ: And I'd like to start with our

first witness, Mr. Kyle Lucas.

KYLE LUCAS, DIANE FISCHER and RAJ P. GAIKWAD

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, were

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. ALVIDREZ:

MR. ALVIDREZ: And, Mr. Lucas, can you please

state and spell your name for the record.

MR. LUCAS: Yes. It's Kyle Lucas, K-Y-L-E

L-U-C-A-S.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And can you please state your

employment and job title.

MR. LUCAS: Yes. I work for Black & Veatch

Corporation. I'm a project manager in their power

generation services area.
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MR. ALVIDREZ: And can you briefly describe

your job duties.

MR. LUCAS: I've worked for Black & Veatch for

19 years. My responsibilities include environmental

project management, encompassing strategy, development,

compliance for coal-, gas- and oil-fired power plants,

along with applications, licensing for these plants, air

dispersion modeling and other compliance issues.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And you're testifying on behalf

of PNM in this proceeding, correct.

MR. LUCAS: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And can you please summarize

your relevant educational background and relevant work

experience pertaining to the matters in this hearing.

MR. LUCAS: Certainly. I have a BS degree in

atmospheric science. I have the last several years

participated in multiple-part analyses for 23 coal-fired

units at eight power plants.

Additionally, I've supported other

BART-related projects, and I've also participated in

numerous BACT analyses, which are similar to the BART

analyses. It's a Best Available Control Technology

analysis, except it just has the visibility component to

it, the BART analysis does.

For this project, I oversaw the air dispersion
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modeling analyses from the initiation of the project in

2007 through the application for 2013, as well as I

served as the assistant project manager, working through

various engineering studies to support the ongoing

efforts for the BART process since 2007.

2012, I took over the project manager's

responsibilities for this project as Black & Veatch was

no longer the technology engineer for PNM.

Additionally, I would like to note that both

Ms. Fischer and I have appeared before the Board in 2011

as expert witnesses on the 2011 SIP for the San Juan

Generating Station.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Thank you.

And have you and Ms. Fischer prepared prefiled

direct testimony in this case that was attached as PNM

Exhibit C to PNM's notice of intent in this matter?

MR. LUCAS: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And are there any corrections

you'd like to make to that prefiled testimony?

MR. LUCAS: There are a few. Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Can you please detail those for

the record.

MR. LUCAS: Certainly.

On page 2 of our testimony, line 15, there's a

duplicate. Please delete "is further detailed."
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On page 2, line 16, in paragraph lines 16 to

20, it should not be a bulleted paragraph.

On page 3, line number 9, following the (d),

there was an omission. That should read "in both the

technical and the visibility improvement cost

effectiveness."

On page 24 of our testimony, line 8, the

$1,050 a ton should read $1,049 a ton. There's a typo.

And on line number 9 of the same page, $6,228

a ton should read $6,218 a ton.

Page 38 of our testimony, Table 9, column

four, the header of that column should read EPA's FIP

minus Revised SIP.

Page 47, Table 14, column four, the header

should read Maximum Improvement, and the unit should

read dollars per deciview, not dollars -- not thousand

dollars per deciview. It should read dollars per

deciview.

And my last correction is on page 49, line 8,

the reference should not read Nevada, it should read

Oklahoma.

MR. ALVIDREZ: All right.

With those revisions to your prefiled

testimony, do you now adopt your prefiled testimony in

this proceeding under oath?
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MR. LUCAS: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Let me move on to your

colleague, Ms. Fischer.

Ms. Fischer, can you state and spell your name

for the record, please.

MS. FISCHER: Yes. Diane Fischer, D-I-A-N-E

F-I-S-C-H-E-R.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And can you tell us your

current place of employment and job title.

MS. FISCHER: Yes. I am the air quality

control services area leader for Black & Veatch

Corporation.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And can you give us a very

general description of your job duties, please.

MS. FISCHER: My current role, I'm responsible

for oversight of our air quality control services

projects, studies similar to this BART analysis, but

also engineering services to execute air quality control

projects.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And have you, in conjunction

with Mr. Lucas, prepared prefiled direct testimony in

this matter which we have submitted as PNM Exhibit C.

MS. FISCHER: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And do you -- is there a

summary of -- or statement of your qualifications in
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that -- as part of that filing.

MS. FISCHER: Yes, sir.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And can you briefly summarize

your relevant educational background and work

experience.

MS. FISCHER: Yes. I have a bachelor's of

science degree in mechanical engineering from Iowa State

University.

I've been with Black & Veatch for 21 years.

I've done air quality control projects for most of that

time, specializing specifically in selective catalytic

reduction, NOx control projects. I have a professional

engineering license in the State of Missouri.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And like Mr. Lucas, you

previously testified before this Board.

MS. FISCHER: Yes, in June of '11.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Now, you heard the corrections

that Mr. Lucas read into the record with respect to the

prefiled testimony.

Do you agree and adopt those corrections?

MS. FISCHER: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And let me ask, with those

corrections in place, do you adopt that testimony as

your sworn testimony in this case?

MS. FISCHER: Yes.
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MR. ALVIDREZ: And moving on to the third

member of our panel, Dr. Raj Gaikwad.

Dr. Gaikwad, would you please state your name

and spell it for the record.

MR. GAIKWAD: My name is Rajendra Gaikwad,

R-A-J-E-N-D-R-A G-A-I-A-W-A-D.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And can you please tell us your

current place of employment and your job title.

MR. GAIKWAD: I'm currently employed with

Sargent & Lundy in Chicago. I'm vice-president of

environmental services.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And very briefly, can you tell

us your job duties as vice-president.

MR. GAIKWAD: My responsibility, I'm

responsible for supervising approximately 25 engineers

whose work focuses on air and water technologies, air

dispersion modeling and environmental compliance.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And -- I'm sorry.

MR. GAIKWAD: Some of my group's duty is to

keep up to date on the technologies.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And can you please summarize

your relevant educational background and work

experience.

MR. GAIKWAD: My bachelor's degree in chemical

engineering from Nagpur University, India; master's
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degree from Indian Institute of Technology, India; and a

PhD in chemical engineering from McGill University,

Montreal Canada.

I have over 25 years experience related to

process engineering.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And have you prepared prefiled

direct testimony in this matter which has been filed as

PNM Exhibit D in this proceeding?

MR. GAIKWAD: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And are there any corrections

you'd like to make to that testimony?

MR. GAIKWAD: I just have one correction on

page 38.

MR. ALVIDREZ: If you could.

MR. GAIKWAD: The last paragraph, M, the title

should read S&L Followed Cost Control Manual rather than

S&L Deviation from Cost Control Manual.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And with that correction to the

record, do you now adopt your prefiled testimony under

oath today?

MR. GAIKWAD: Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: With that, Mr. Hearing Officer,

we would move the admission of PNM Exhibits C and D as

previously filed in this proceeding into evidence in

this proceeding.
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MR. VOLKERDING: So accepted.

(Exhibits PNM C and D admitted into evidence.)

MR. ALVIDREZ: All right. With that, I'd call

on Mr. Lucas first to just give a very brief overview of

his prefiled testimony in this case.

MR. LUCAS: In this proceeding I will provide

just a general overview of the BART analyses performed

for San Juan Generating Station as well as a summary of

air dispersion modeling aspects which support the

addendum from April, 2013.

Based on the Term Sheet agreement, updated

cost information, new emission rates contained in the

New Source Review permit for the plant, as well as

updated modeling, we developed the addendum document.

We focused on the four scenarios that were discussed

previously by NMED.

Black & Veatch took the lead in preparation of

this addendum document, coordinated the nonair quality

impacts with PNM, as well as the cost information of the

technologies with Dr. Gaikwad at Sargent & Lundy.

Black & Veatch followed EPA guidelines for

development of the analysis, which described the factors

in developing the BART five-step process.

NMED spoke of this in detail. I'm going to

skip over this part unless you have any questions.
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But the result was that the cost

effectiveness, the dollar per ton or the cost of the

technology over the amount of emissions removed was most

cost effective for the revised SIP scenario as compared

to the FIP or the 2011 SIP scenario. So basically the

two SNCR, two-unit retirement was the most cost

effective scenario of the scenarios looked at.

The cost effectiveness is only one piece of

it. The visibility component, the fifth step in the

factors, is also a part that really relies on the BART

rule. That's what it's based on.

For consistency with the EPA's visibility

modeling for the FIP, Black & Veatch utilized EPA's

visibility modeling files in what they provided within

the FIP itself, and used that as a basis of the

addendum.

We first went ahead and looked at the

methodology that was supplied within the technical

support documents filed as part of the FIP. We

conducted verification modeling once we had those files

and confirmed the results for the scenarios in the FIP,

and we further provided those results to EPA in

September of last year.

We then modified those input files

specifically with regard to the scenarios, the baseline
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scenario, the FIP scenario, the revised SIP scenario as

well as the 2011 SIP, so we could have all those running

the same methodology, the updated permit limits, the

Term Sheet agreement considerations, the unit

retirements and so forth.

The results of the visibility modeling for

each scenario in each Class I area is converted into

deciview, so the results all come out of the modeling in

deciview. And one deciview improvement is relatively

comparable to a 10 percent change in visibility.

So according to EPA, the definition of one

deciview or 10 percent change is what's perceptible to

the intricate observer, the human eye.

The results for the modeling show that the

FIP, the four SCR case and revised SIP, being the two

SNCRs, two units retired, would actually improve

visibility beyond the original 2011 SIP.

The revised SIP indicates that the visibility

impacts at five Class I areas are equal to or better

than the visibility projected for the FIP. For the

remaining Class I areas, the difference ranges from

about .06 deciviews to about .47 deciviews, so about

4.7 percent change. So an imperceptible change to EPA

definitions, less than 10 percent.

We also did a frequency comparison. So we
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looked at the 24-hour periods for each year for that

three-year period, and we looked at what the individual

impacts were for each of those 24-hour periods, as

compared to a threshold of .5 deciviews and one

deciviews.

The results show that approximately half or

more of the number of Class I areas in the revised SIP

are comparable to that of the FIP. So the types of

impacts coming out of the revised SIP modeling are

comparable to the results that EPA produced for the four

SCRs in the FIP.

The BART rule relies upon the visibility

component. As listed earlier, the cost effectiveness on

dollar per ton by itself showed that the revised SIP was

much more cost effective than either of the other two

scenarios looked at.

Now, considering the visibility aspect of this

in dollar per deciview, the same dollar that it took for

each technology over the deciview improvement by the

model results in a cost effectiveness for the revised

SIP over that of the FIP or the 2011 SIP.

So again, on a facility-wide basis, the

revised SIP comes up with better costs overall with the

SNCR technology, the cost effectiveness is less in the

other two options, the visibility is comparable and
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imperceptible between the FIP or the revised SIP, the

visibility cost effectiveness is also less, and with the

two-units shutdown contained within the revised SIP

scenario, you also get additional environmental benefits

previously discussed that you don't achieve through

either the FIP or the 2011 SIP.

Thank you.

That concludes my summary.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Okay.

And it may be helpful to the Board if you

might describe, since we're presenting the three of you

as a panel, what your respective roles were in terms of

the BART analysis.

MR. LUCAS: Certainly.

Black & Veatch, as I mentioned, took the lead

in developing the overall work for the addendum,

coordinating with Sargent & Lundy to provide the cost

estimates, the technology review, what the costs would

be for the SCR case, the SNCR case, as well as the

revised SIP being two SNCRs and two units retired.

Diane Fischer was the project engineering

manager. She oversaw the technology review step one,

step two and step three of the BART process, as well as

her team oversaw coordination of the cost information

coming in from Sargent & Lundy and their team.
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MR. ALVIDREZ: All right.

Dr. Gaikwad, if you could provide the Board

and the public with a brief overview of your prefiled

testimony.

MR. GAIKWAD: Sure.

As I mentioned, our function was to provide

detailed cost estimate on SNCR and SCR technology. I

followed all procedures described in the BART guidelines

to prepare the cost estimate. The BART guidelines

requires a three-step process. We followed the BART

guidelines, as well as the -- something called Control

Cost Manual, prepared by EPA's Office of Air Quality

Planning and Standards.

The major points I want to bring here are

about the SCR capital costs. There are certain design

parameters that we use, as well as the operating

parameters that are components of the cost of SCR.

One of the first thing is the EPA's FIP

require that the SCR will be implemented to achieve .05

pounds per million BTU NOx, which requires design of the

SCR with 0.03 pounds per million BTUs, which is quite

stringent and is basically state-of-the-art technology,

which also requires four layers of SCR reactor.

The second one is the location of plant site.

The plant site is 5,300 feet above sea level, which
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basically increases gas volume by 30 percent. Because

the reactors will be 30 percent bigger, that directly

impacts the cost.

The third one at San Juan is a mine mouth

plant. And the coal quality is such that it has very

large amount of ash, and larger the amount of ash,

slower will be the gas velocity through SCR reactor.

Again the reactor becomes larger, which increases the

cost.

The last one is the congestion. It's a

extremely congested site with the SCR to be built in the

area between the economizer outlet and air heater inlet.

The SCR will be installed above the bottom ESP by

removing top ESP, which increases both the structural

steel cost, as well as the foundation. It becomes more

difficult for Units 2 and 3 because those are bounded by

Units 1 and 4 for construction.

The other factor that impact the cost is the

labor cost. The labor productivity index in State of

New Mexico is 1.15, which again increases the cost.

So where appropriate, we followed all the

requirement for BART guidelines and as well as the

Control Cost Manual. We also looked at the annualized

capital cost, fixed O&M cost, variable O&M cost, as well

as the total annual cost.
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To summarize the cost, if you look at the

revised State Implementation Plan, which basically

requires SNCRs on Units 1 and 4, will be approximately

$34.5 million in capital, with the annual cost of

$13.6 million. But if you follow the EPA's FIP, which

requires four SCRs, on all four units, which will be

close to $824 million in the capital cost and close to

$109 million a year in annualized cost.

I would like to also note that based on the

information published by PNM, PNM received engineer,

procure and construct bids from four different bidders,

and including all the costs, the range was $824 million

to $910 million. So this supports S&L's cost estimates

for SCR technology.

So it's my opinion that NMED has reasonably

relied on our cost estimates in their revised SIP

submittal, submittal that is before the EIB.

Thank you.

That concludes my testimony.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Thank you, Dr. Gaikwad.

Ms. Fischer, if you could give us a brief

overview of your testimony, please.

MS. FISCHER: I would be happy to.

Black & Veatch took the cost estimates

developed by Sargent & Lundy and did the cost
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effectiveness analysis.

Exhibit BV-3 in our testimony is a table right

out of our BART analysis which lays out the cost

effectiveness calculation.

And how that works is you take the tons of NOx

that you can reduce and the capital costs, the annual

costs, and then you take the capital costs and multiply

it by something called a capital recovery factor, which

is basically a way of annualizing the cost of capital.

So you come up with an annual cost of the SCR, the SNCR,

and you divide that by the tons of NOx that are removed

to get a dollars per ton number.

So we did that in BV -- Exhibit BV-3, and --

and from that you can see that the SCR -- the SCRs are

going to have for the -- for the San Juan Station cost

effectiveness of $6,218 a ton, the original SIP that the

Board voted on in 2011 results in a cost effectiveness

of $5,561, and the revised SIP, which is the proposal

before you today, results in a dollars per ton of

$1,049.

So it is significant lower cost at a dollars

per ton.

Now, as Mr. Lucas said, the important thing

here is visibility. So the other table I want to draw

your attention to is on page 47 of our testimony, which
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takes those same annualized costs and divides by the

deciview improvement, and that shows that the revised

SIP is significantly more cost effective of the dollars

per deciview, about $5 million, versus the FIP at

$35 million and the original SIP at $28 million.

So the results of this analysis show that this

is a cost-effective solution to this situation.

The other thing I'd like to note for the

Board, if you were to spend time lining up Black &

Veatch's estimates from 2011 against S&L's estimates,

you will see they are right on top of each other, and

the differences are mostly explained by the additional

engineering that S&L did over the last two years.

Also, as Dr. Gaikwad mentioned, they have four

EPC bids that line up against all these numbers, as

well. So I think you can have -- my opinion would be

that you have -- you can have confidence that these

numbers are correct, or close.

So that concludes my comments.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Okay. Thank you very much.

And with that, we would tender these witnesses

for cross-examination.

MR. VOLKERDING: Any questions from the Board?
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EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MR. HOLT: I don't have any questions for the

witnesses but for PNM sort of generally, so maybe

conversation with Mr. Alvidrez is appropriate. I don't

know whether you want to do that now or later.

MR. VOLKERDING: No. Go -- give it a try.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Am I under oath?

MR. VOLKERDING: Yes.

MR. HOLT: Mr. Alvidrez, there's two things

that are going on simultaneously.

One is the request by this Board to approve

the revised BART determination incorporated into an

alternative SIP, right?

MR. ALVIDREZ: Correct.

MR. HOLT: And second is certain promises that

PNM has made, not necessarily to this Board but to the

community that certainly are important to the community

that's come here.

And somebody asked an earlier witness how do

we know that's going to happen, and the answer was ask

PNM.

MR. ALVIDREZ: All right.

MR. HOLT: So here I am.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Well, I can partially respond,
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and I would note we'll also have a senior vice-president

that will be under oath a little later today.

But as I think was pointed out earlier, in

this proceeding, you know, the Term Sheet itself was

filed with the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals, a little

bit unusual sort of situation.

You know, when you have a -- a conflict

pending before a court, to announce, you know, a

partial -- and it's partial in that not all the parties

to that proceeding have joined into the agreement in

principle, or the Term Sheet. But we filed that with

the court.

So I think, you know, we -- PNM has indicated

very publicly its intentions that are spelled out in the

Term Sheet. It has, you know, filed the Term Sheet with

the court, made representations to the court that it

intends to abide by the Term Sheet.

I think the company's actions up to date have

demonstrated its good faith in wanting to abide by the

terms of the agreement. It has taken some actions,

notwithstanding the fact that this Board hasn't approved

anything yet, and the EPA hasn't approved anything yet.

But it has already started making payments to the Navajo

Nation and the San Juan Economic Development Department.

It's moving forward with, you know, necessary planning
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to implement this at significant cost.

So, you know, where -- we are on track. The

company has met every deadline that, you know, is

applicable up to this point in time, and I have no

information to suggest that there would be any -- any

reason other than for the failure of the proposal to be

approved along all the necessary approvals for the

company to -- to change its course of conduct in any

way.

MR. HOLT: If both this Board and the EPA

provide the requisite approvals, would you regard the

Term Sheet then as a contract with ED?

MR. ALVIDREZ: That's an interesting legal

question. And, you know, there are contracts that arise

in writing, and there are contracts that arise, you

know, implicitly and by course of conduct and what have

you.

You know, it's -- you know, one thing that has

been made very clear, and I think everyone understands

why, is, you know, EPA cannot contractually bind itself

to approve a given rule. There is a process that it

must -- must follow. And, you know, that's a large

consideration in the structure of this agreement.

And there are a lot of lawyers on the Board

here, I know they're cringing at the thought of, well,
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how can you possibly, you know, live up -- or find this,

you know, three-page document to afford much comfort.

And I will just say that in that regard all

the parties have worked in good faith and, you know, we

have no reason to believe that any one of the parties is

not going to continue to work in good faith to try and

see this thing through.

But, you know, at the end of the day, what we

do want to see is the Term Sheet fully implemented.

Whether that's, you know, a legal contract, you know, at

the end or not, I don't know. But it is -- it is the

intent of the company to pursue this.

MR. HOLT: Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Any other Board questions?

Member Casciano.

MR. CASCIANO: Yeah. On the issue of cost,

that seems to continue to come up, and in some of the

comments, I noted earlier the National Park Service

stated that PNM overestimated the costs, and, of course,

that was a big topic of the previous action in 2011.

And I guess it disturbs me personally, having

dealt with the EPA for 30 years and observed their

tendency -- and this is my own personal observation --

of over -- overestimating the health benefits of actions

and very much underestimating the cost, whether it's to
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jobs in the community, to society in general, to

specific facilities or operators. But basically to all

of us, right?

And so it concerns me that this keeps coming

up and there's such a difference in cost estimates.

I wonder specifically to EPA's guidelines,

where they point to cost calculations based on their own

manuals or generic formula, do they allow for the

site-specific determinations, the particulars that you

factored into your analysis? Do they allow that?

I just would like throughout this process for

us to kind of close that gap between 300 million or, you

know, a low number versus almost a billion dollars, a

very high number.

MR. GAIKWAD: Yeah. I would comment on that

one.

The Control Cost Manual has a special section

on the SCR, and it allows you to consider site-specific

terms. So if you use the Cost Control Manual, it allows

you to consider site-specific design criteria. And also

if you look at the costs that PNM received, the four

bids, the actual bids, they were in the same range that

we came up with.

Now, the cost equations that Park District has

used were developed by Sargent & Lundy, and those
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equations were very general equations. So when Park

District used those equations, they did not take into

account any site-specific conditions which specifically

reflect the number of factors. They did not take into

account the site elevation, which increases cost by

30 percent. They did not take into account the labor

productivity factor, which again would have increased

the cost.

If they use all those factors, the cost would

have nearly doubled. And so if the Park District takes

into account all those factors, the difference between

the costs that we came up with and Park District came up

with can be explained.

MS. FISCHER: I would like to --

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yeah, Ms. Fischer.

MS. FISCHER: I would just like to add a

couple things, because the EPA, you know, in their FIP

spent a fair amount of time criticizing the Black &

Veatch estimate. It's pretty brutal, actually.

And while they allow -- while the OAPQS manual

does allow site-specific factors, they -- when you

actually -- when the rubber meets the road, they don't

tend to take those into account.

And, you know, if any of the EPC bidders who

bid on the total package project -- and, you know, it
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was a competitive bid. If any of those bidders had been

able to put their balance sheet at risk and bid the EPA

price, they would have loved to undercut all their

competitors, because they would have won the job at half

the price.

But that's not where those bids came in. With

companies that had put their balance sheet on the line,

based on the labor costs in the area and the congestion

of this site -- when that all came down to a number that

they could stand behind and commit their balance sheet

to, those numbers looked just like ours.

And the EPA and the National Park Service did

not have to put their balance sheet behind their

estimate.

So I have to admit a level of frustration with

that difference between those estimates, and I do feel

that the numbers we're presenting are correct.

MR. CASCIANO: Thank you. I share your

frustration. I mean, we should be able to agree on cost

and then make the policy decisions, but to play up the

cost difference and have that as a reason, I think,

really clouds the policy decision.

But thank you for the time you've put into the

analysis.

MR. VOLKERDING: Further Board questions?
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I have one.

And I've been struggling how to ask it. It

has to do with basically cost calculation.

And we have the baseline to FIP cost and the

baseline to the SIP and then the baseline to the revised

SIP. And I think the answer is no, but PNM is going to

presumably lose revenue because it's shutting down two

units.

Is that a cost that is considered in

evaluating the revised SIP?

MS. FISCHER: I do not believe loss of revenue

is allowed by the EPA --

MR. VOLKERDING: Right.

MS. FISCHER: -- methodology.

MR. VOLKERDING: Yeah. And I don't think it

is either, and I just wanted to make the point that I

find that concerning, because then the -- you know, the

optimal thing for PNM to do is simply shut down

completely, and then that doesn't cost anything, and we

get great environmental benefit, and I don't think that

that's necessarily the intent of the haze rule.

So --

MR. LUCAS: The initial intent, at least if

you read the rule, specifies combustion controls. So

the original submittal back in 2007 that tried to follow
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that policy procedure originally specified that as part

of the technology that was being developed and installed

through the consent decree action.

But through the evolution of this process,

we're here today.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you.

Any other -- oh.

MS. PEACOCK: Mr. Alvidrez, on the proposed

revised SIP, were there any things in there that PNM

would like to see that's different?

You said you're fully supportive of it, but

I'd like your comment on that.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes, Madam Chair. We are fully

supportive of the SIP as has been submitted. There are

no changes that we're requesting be made to the SIP.

You know, like the NMED, we are -- we have

some trepidation about any inclination that anyone might

have to tinker with it, because while we -- the intent

may be to clarify something or what have you, someone

could construe it as changing the understanding.

But we do support it.

MS. PEACOCK: And that includes the

typographical and transcription errors that were

submitted today, that you agree with those.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Correct, yes, yes. We
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support -- don't support the errors, we support the

corrections.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

NMED, do you have any cross-examination

questions?

MR. GRANTHAM: No questions.

MR. VOLKERDING: Mr. Gould?

MR. GOULD: No questions.

Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Any members of the audience?

Okay. With that, thank you for your time.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Thank you.

And we would call Mr. Chris Olson up, and also

ask Mr. Darnell to come up. While we won't be

presenting these witnesses in a panel, I think it may be

efficient just to have them seated.

(CHRIS OLSON and RONALD DARNELL were duly

sworn or affirmed.)

MR. ALVIDREZ: And with that, we would call

Mr. Chris Olson.

And, Mr. Olson, we've got an extra microphone

here.
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CHRIS OLSON

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. ALVIDREZ:

Q. If you could please state and spell your name

for the record.

A. My name is Chris Olson, C-H-R-I-S O-L-S-O-N.

Q. And can you please state your current place of

employment and job title.

A. I'm employed by PNM. I'm the vice-president

of generation.

Q. And can you tell the Board your job duties?

A. I have responsibility for strategic direction

and operation of all PNM's generating facilities, as

well as fuel procurement and wholesale power marketing

functions.

Q. And can you briefly summarize your educational

background and relevant work history.

A. I have 32 years in the power industry. I have

a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering from the

University of Minnesota. I'm a registered professional

engineer in the State of Minnesota.

Q. And have you prepared prefiled direct

testimony that has been submitted in this case as PNM
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Exhibit B?

A. I have.

Q. And are there any corrections that you'd like

to make on the record to your testimony?

A. There are three.

On page 2, Table 1, slightly more than halfway

down, where it reads Delta (PPA) and the superscript

says 12, it should read 12, 2 -- or 1, 2. I'm sorry.

1, 2.

Next correction is on page 10, Table 3. For

the CO2 emissions tons per year for the first case with

203 combined emissions, that figure should be 7,385,466

tons per year.

The last correction, in Exhibit CMO-1, under

my tenure at Northern States Power, the term should be

1982 through the year 2000.

Q. Thank you.

And with those corrections to your prefiled

testimony, do you now adopt that testimony here today

under oath?

A. I do.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And with that, we would move

the admission into the -- into evidence of PNM Exhibit

B.

MR. VOLKERDING: Motion accepted.
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(Exhibit PNM B admitted into evidence.)

Q. (BY MR. ALVIDREZ) Mr. Olson, can you please

provide the Board with a brief overview of your prefiled

testimony.

A. I will be brief.

The purpose of my testimony is to provide an

overview of PNM's generation fleet and specifically the

role that the San Juan Generating Station plays in that

fleet; review of the importance at San Juan providing

safe and reliable electricity to our customers, as well

as the customers of the other owners of the San Juan

Generating Station; to explain the ownership structure

and the economic impact the plant has to the Four

Corners region; and, lastly, provide a description of

the plant's current and proposed air emissions control

equipment.

Q. All right.

And there's been some discussion in the record

thus far relating to assumptions about the cost of the

proposed SCR installation at San Juan.

Can you clarify the record for us on the -- on

those costs?

A. I certainly hope I can add clarity, because

there's been a lot of numbers thrown out. Black &

Veatch and Sargent & Lundy did a fine job of trying to
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add clarity to that. I'll try to add to that.

I think any time you look at numbers, it's

important to understand what's behind the numbers, so

you're actually comparing like alternatives.

I think the decision before the Board today is

really around FIP and SIP. So consequently, the numbers

for SIP are in the $800 million range, as you've heard

from Black & Veatch and Stone & Webster for four SCRs.

That is not total probable cost, but that is indicative

of capital costs for that installation.

That is best compared to the revised SIP,

which is SNCR installation. The capital costs for SNCR

installation is on the order of $36 million. So to me,

that is a better comparison between all the numbers that

are being used.

I'm not suggesting that those are total

probable costs, but those are good perhaps indications

of alternatives being considered.

Q. And also for some clarification, there was --

there were some questions that the Board asked about the

proposed reduction of the SO2 limit and whether there was

any plant modification or costs that were associated

with that.

Can you address that issue, please?

A. If I understand the question -- on SO2
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specifically or NOx?

Q. SO2, the proposed reduction in the emission

limit.

A. Yeah. The current emissions limit on SO2 for

San Juan is 0.15 pounds per million BTU. Under the

revised SIP, we agreed to lower the limit to 0.10 pounds

per million BTU.

Moving down to that limit, at times, the

current equipment is able to reach that limit, but at

times, it's not. It currently has a system which will

enhance the efficacy of the scrubber, which removes the

SO2. It is equipment that adds diabasic acid to the

process. It effectively acts as a catalyst to make the

limestone more effective from SO2.

So the intent for -- with PNM would be to

increase the throughput of diabasic acid at an

additional cost to us to reduce that limit. And that is

our strategy for reaching a new revised limit on SO2 if

it were adopted.

Q. Thank you.

And with that, we tender Mr. Olson for

questioning.

MR. VOLKERDING: Members of the Board?

I have a couple.

First one is fairly outside the scope, so you
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can say that if you want.

But in -- on page 4 of -- of your testimony,

in Table 2, it breaks out the ownership of the various

units, and since Unit 3 is owned partially by the

Southern California Power -- Public Power Authority, I'm

assuming that there must be some sort of agreement that

the plant is making with them to continue to supply them

power, or in some way keeping them whole through the

shutdown of that unit.

MR. OLSON: Short question, long answer.

Because the number of owners across the entire

facility, not just Unit 3 -- the number of owners have

different needs and expectations going forward, we are

in the process, and have been for a number of months, to

try and strike an arrangement where those that want to

remain in San Juan are able to do so and those that are

able to depart can.

Part of that might include some swaps of

ownership. It might include some short-term power

purchase agreements or other type of mechanisms that

would allow them to remain whole.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

I think I know the answer, but wanted to just

clarify. I was confused by this statement.

In -- it's on page 6, in lines 12 through 18,
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there are some bullets talking about some of the plans

of PNM, and line 17 talks about providing the million

dollars for job retraining. And then in the paragraph

below, on line 19, it mentions another million dollars.

I'm just wondering, those are the same million

dollars, correct?

MR. OLSON: They are.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

And last question is on page 7, and the

paragraph Contribution to Tax Base.

If I read that correct, the numbers that are

presented are current dollars; is that correct?

MR. OLSON: Correct.

MR. VOLKERDING: So it takes $59 million a

year in coal royalties and taxes to government and

tribes.

When Units 2 and 3 are shut down, that number

would feasibly be cut in half; is that correct?

MR. OLSON: Presumably, yes.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

And the same with the other numbers that are

listed in that paragraph, they're going to also be

impacted, to some degree.

MR. OLSON: I can't speak too much to the tax

component to that, but certainly on the tax royalties,
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yes.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

That's all my questions.

Any other questions from the Board?

Any questions from the Environment Department?

MR. GRANTHAM: No questions.

MR. VOLKERDING: Mr. Gould?

MR. GOULD: Yes, sir.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. GOULD:

Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Olson.

A. Good afternoon.

Q. I don't think I have -- can you hear me?

I don't think I have a microphone, but I can

speak up.

A. I can hear you fine.

Q. Just to establish a baseline, the retirement

of Units 2 and 3, which is proposed in this revised SIP,

will create a retirement of a 418-megawatt block of

power.

Is that a fair summary?

A. For PNM?

Q. Yes.

A. Yes.

Q. Okay.
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As you heard in my comments when you were

sitting here, our concern, of course, is with the rate

impact of this plan. We've supported it, but the way

that we feel we can ameliorate or mitigate the rate

impact, of course, is to have some say in what the

replacement power is for that 418.

So just that's kind of the direction my

questions are going.

I'm concerned because in the Term Sheet, in

the last paragraph -- I don't know if you have that in

front of you.

A. I do not.

Q. Do you have a copy that you can refer to?

A. I do.

Q. And I'm referring to paragraph 4. It is the

very last paragraph of that Term Sheet.

A. Yes.

Q. And I'm just going to read the relevant

portion of that from my -- as a preface to my question.

It says, "PNM agrees that the natural gas

combustion turbine to be cited at the San Juan

Generating Station to partially replace the retired

Unit 2 and Unit 3 coal capacity will undergo BACT

analysis," and then goes on for the rest of the

sentence.
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My concern is that looks as if PNM and the

parties to this agreement believe that that combustion

turbine, along with this exact citing, is a done deal,

and I -- I also read your testimony at page 4, lines 11

and 12, going down to line 14, it -- the same kind of

positive attitude about this block replacement power

seems to be reflected in that testimony. And I see on

line 11 you say "PNM will."

So I guess my concern is has PNM made a

binding commitment, either through an oral contract or

memorandum of understanding, about a chunk of

replacement power that is represented by that combustion

turbine?

A. On page 6 of my testimony, line 9, although

not part of the SIP, PNM must carefully consider

economic impacts, and we have made commitments within

the construct of the Term Sheet to indeed provide -- to

indeed install combustion training at San Juan site,

however, recognizing that it will require approval by a

different regulatory body within the State of New

Mexico.

Q. Well, maybe I can ask my question another way.

In other words, is your commitment simply to

apply for that and -- and go to the commission with the

evidence that you believe that shows this is one of the
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best options and -- and sort of let the chips fall where

they may with the commission?

A. Yeah. I'm not really in a great position to

answer regulatory strategy, but --

Q. Okay.

A. -- PNM does believe that this is a good

alternative for customers and for the San Juan site and

Four Corners region.

Q. Would that be a question for Mr. Darnell as

the policy vice-president of PNM?

A. I would defer to Mr. Darnell.

Q. Okay.

I looked through your testimony. I did not

see anything about this coal treatment that was

mentioned in the NMED testimony.

Do you have any understanding of the coal

treatment proposal that is -- that is being considered

by PNM?

A. I do.

Q. Could -- is there a potential that that coal

treatment could improve the heat rate or the performance

of the San Juan plant?

A. Unlikely, but the potential is there, and

the -- I did hear the questioning before. Our concern

is that there could potentially be some detrimental
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effects to the boiler if we were to use that treatment.

So we're just trying to protect ourselves in

case there were some effects that we're not able to

predict. That type of treatment has been used on very

few units across this country, and it's very susceptible

to different types of fuel and sensitive to different

types of fuel and difference between types of fuel

output analysis, and whether there's consequences.

We're just being cautious and being concerned

that we fully understand before we commit to using it on

a long-term basis.

Q. Okay. Thank you.

I believe those are all the questions I have

for this witness.

Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

Are there any questions from members of the

audience for the witness?

No?

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Alvidrez.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Thank you very much.

With that, we would now call Mr. Ronald

Darnell as our next witness.

And I believe Mr. Darnell has been sworn.
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RONALD DARNELL

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. ALVIDREZ:

Q. So, Mr. Darnell, can you please state and

spell your name for the record.

A. Yes. My name is Ronald N. Darnell, spelled

R-O-N-A-L-D N. D-A-R-N-E-L-L.

Q. And can you tell us where you're employed and

your job title, please.

A. Yes. I'm employed by PNM as the senior

vice-president for public policy.

Q. And can you briefly explain to the Board what

your job duties are.

A. My job duties are -- I'm responsible for the

regulatory functions at PNM and TNMP. I'm responsible

for load forecasting, for the grade resource planning,

for marketing and communications and governmental

affairs.

Q. And have you submitted a short bio as part of

your prefiled testimony in this case?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. And can you briefly summarize your educational

background and work experience.
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A. Yes. I have a BS in business administration

with an emphasis in accounting from California State

University.

I worked for Xcel Energy and its predecessor

companies from 1982 to 2008. While there, I was

responsible for pricing in Texas, Colorado, New Mexico,

Wyoming, Dakotas, Minnesota, and was constantly

responsible for cost to service studies. I moved down

to assume the vice-president of regulatory affairs for

PNM in 2008.

And prior to my current responsibilities, I

was responsible for not only regulatory affairs, but at

different points the operations for Texas-New Mexico

Power, distribution and transmission businesses in Texas

and our air compliance program.

Q. And have you prepared prefiled direct

testimony in this case, which we have filed of record as

PNM Exhibit A?

A. I have.

Q. And are there any corrections that you'd like

to make to your prefiled testimony?

A. Yes. I have three corrections.

Q. Okay. If you could read those corrections

into the record, please.

A. Yes.
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Page 3, line 15, the word "effectiveness"

should simply be deleted.

Page 9, line 7, the word "later" should be

changed to "earlier."

And finally, this is a little embarrassing,

but on the last page of my testimony, my address is

wrong. Strike Alvarado Square and replace it with Main

Offices.

Q. Okay.

And with those corrections as you've just

detailed, do you now adopt your prefiled testimony in

this proceeding under oath?

A. Yes.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Mr. Hearing Officer, we would

move PNM Exhibit A into evidence formally now.

MR. VOLKERDING: So accepted.

Thank you.

(Exhibit PNM A admitted into evidence.)

MR. ALVIDREZ: All right.

Q. Mr. Darnell, can you please provide a brief

overview of your prefiled testimony in this case.

A. Yes. And I will keep it brief.

PNM is a public utility that provides electric

generation, transmission and distribution services to

more than 500,000 businesses and residences in New
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Mexico. We are one of three investor-owned utilities in

the state, and we are the only publicly-traded company

that is actually headquartered in the State of New

Mexico.

We are the operator and part owner of the San

Juan Generating Station. Therefore, we have a

significant interest in the outcome of this proceeding.

PNM strongly supports the revised State

Implementation Plan. Should the Board reject the plan,

PNM and the other owners of San Juan will be

contemplating compliance with the federal plan that has

a price tag of somewhere between 824 million and 910

million fully loaded. And this is really for the

reduction of one emission, nitrous oxides.

PNM supports New Mexico Environment

Department's revised State Implementation Plan for three

fundamental reasons.

First, it meets the legal and technical

requirements of the regional haze rules.

Second, it does this at a far lesser cost than

the federal plan.

And third, it provides significant

environmental benefits that the federal plan does not.

In terms of regional haze compliance, because

the state plan calls for retirement of two units and the
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installation of selective noncatalytic reduction

technology on the remaining units, there will be a

tremendous amount of reduction in NOx and SOx, and

that -- and that, as you have heard, leads to a

visibility outcome very, very similar to the FIP. In

fact, it's not even -- the difference isn't even

discernible to the eye.

Second, in terms of cost, I'm kind of a bottom

line guy, but when I listened to Ms. Fischer describe

her table on page 47 of the Black & Veatch testimony, it

looks to me like on a per deciview basis the state plan

is one-seventh the cost of the federal plan.

In terms of superior environmental benefits, I

know you've heard these numbers before, but I think it's

worth repeating as we finish this up today. The state

plan reduces emissions of sulfur dioxide 67 percent,

particulate matter 50 percent, carbon monoxide

44 percent, volatile organic compounds 50 percent,

carbon dioxide 50 percent, mercury 50 percent and

combust -- coal combustion residuals by 48 percent.

The federal plan doesn't touch these, they

don't reduce those emissions at all.

In addition, the state plan reduces water

usage at the plant by 53 percent. The federal plan

reduces usage not one drop.
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PNM supports the state plan because it

provides an effective and comprehensive way to improve

regional haze, it allows PNM to maintain a diverse

generation portfolio, and it does this in a way that

lessens and minimizes the cost impact to our customers.

Therefore, I respectfully request the Board to

approve the plan as presented.

Thank you.

MR. ALVIDREZ: And with that, Mr. Darnell is

available for questions.

MR. VOLKERDING: Members of the Board?

EXAMINATION

BY THE BOARD:

MR. VOLKERDING: I have --

MR. FULFER: I have one.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. I'm sorry.

Go ahead.

MR. FULFER: The -- I have to go ahead and ask

this question. The -- at our last hearing, it seemed

like you all had -- PNM had upgraded their plant just a

couple years before and was being required to upgrade it

again.

Is there any timeline in this plan or in this

Term Sheet or in the plan going forward that once you

get this completed, that you won't be required to
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upgrade it again within the next two years?

MR. DARNELL: My understanding, that is

entirely correct. This is -- this plan meets BART, and

that won't be revisited within two years.

MR. FULFER: Okay. Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Nothing further?

Okay. Go ahead.

MS. PEACOCK: Mr. Darnell, how does the

proposed SIP revision fit into the -- to PNM's long-term

energy policy?

MR. DARNELL: Well, first, you know, we

recognize -- we all recognize that it's not good to be

too long on coal, and so what this plan does for us is

it reduces our exposure in coal by about 14 percent. I

mentioned in my summary it diverse -- it helps us

diversify our supply portfolio. We're not getting coal.

You know, there's been some questions relative

to our commitment in Farmington to make good on our

promises. Just reiterate, you know, we are retiring two

units. We have two units that will -- that we will have

ownership in, and those -- those units are here, we'll

operate them, and coal will still be a part of our

portfolio, just a lesser part.

MR. VOLKERDING: I had a question on page 8 of

your testimony, line 8 through 10.
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You were providing some history on -- on the

whole process, and that portion talked about how EPA did

not agree to the original proposal of shutting down

Units 1 and 2.

And I was curious why they didn't like 1 and

2.

MR. DARNELL: I'd be completely remiss to

speculate --

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MR. DARNELL: -- as to why they did not like

that.

MR. VOLKERDING: On page 13, lines 9 through

11, and there's been a lot of discussion on this, how

people that are basically, you know, employed by PNM are

going to remain employed by PNM until attrition and

those types of things.

So what kind of jobs are the people going to

do if Units 2 and 3 will shut down?

MR. DARNELL: If I'm allowed to hand that back

to Mr. Olson, who is responsible for those --

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay.

MR. DARNELL: -- types of issues, I'll do

that.

MR. OLSON: Only fair.

We're fortunate in one aspect, that there are
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a number of employees that are currently employed at San

Juan that are eligible for retirement. They're a large

number. In fact, in some sections of the plant, some

areas of the plant, we actually may have to hire.

In addition to that, we have the benefit of

being able to flex up and down with contract employees,

and we will use that to our full advantage. So I expect

everyone that wants to stay will have a meaningful job

and will have a productive job, happily ever after.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you.

Any questions from NMED?

MR. GRANTHAM: No questions.

MR. VOLKERDING: Mr. Gould?

MR. GOULD: Yes, just a few.

CROSS EXAMINATION

BY MR. GOULD:

Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Darnell.

A. Good afternoon, Mr. Gould.

Q. I noticed on the first page of your testimony

your title is senior vice-president of public policy.

A. Yes.

Q. And in that position -- I know you're not an

attorney, but in that position you have become

familiar -- you've had to familiarize yourself with the

New Mexico Public Utility Act, have you not?
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A. Somewhat.

Q. And you can speak about that act, the general

provisions of that act from a policy perspective, can

you not?

A. I think so.

Q. Okay.

And would you agree with me that the New

Mexico Public Regulation Commission has the sole

authority to authorize PNM to build a new generation

plant?

A. That's correct.

Q. Okay.

There -- and you were in the room when I was

questioning Mr. Olson, were you not?

A. I was in the room. I was sitting next to him.

Q. And this is just for the record, to -- since

it's not being filmed.

But I want to make clear that -- or have the

assurance that PNM has made no binding contractual

commitments -- prior to the ability of the Public

Regulation Commission to review, has made no binding

commitments about what kind of replacement power will be

used to replace the 418 megawatts that will be lost with

the closing of Units 2 and 3.

A. That's correct. And maybe let me just add one
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thing --

Q. Sure.

A. -- that might clear things up.

Our commitment -- we are committed to filing a

CCN, Certificate of Convenience and Necessity, with the

New Mexico Public Regulation Commission at the

appropriate time, probably sometime in 2015, and the

commitment that we have -- that we've made is that we

will file that, and we will seek to build that CT here,

in San Juan, with the associated pipeline, and we will

do that.

But, yes, we could not bind the PRC. It is

definitely their decision. That process will be a very

transparent process. But that's -- that's -- that is

the limit of our commitment.

Q. Okay.

And the purpose of that CCN application will

be to show that this option is the best power

replacement option for that amount of megawatts.

Is that -- is that a fair statement?

A. That's a fair statement, and the burden of

proof is on PNM.

Q. Okay.

In answer to a question from the Board about

whether or not we're going to have to repeat this
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process with respect to San Juan in another couple of

years, you indicated in your answer that this

proceeding, and if the EPA adopts the revised SIP, will

settle the BART issues.

Do you recall that testimony?

A. Yes.

Q. In your experience, is there any other set of

regulations, however, that the -- that the EPA could

use -- might conceivably use in the next couple of years

to attack Units 1 and 4 and to try to effectuate an

accelerated shutdown of those units?

In other words, are we going to have to do

something else again just under another guise?

A. Well, we all know that the EPA will promulgate

a rule relative to carbon in 2014. So that, obviously,

is going to impact any possible plans.

Q. Okay.

Has PNM done an analysis of what that rule

will cost with the Units 1 and 4 operating at the levels

you anticipate?

A. Well, we don't know what the rule is.

We're -- right now we're looking -- we're examining what

we -- we're examining what our position is as to what

the EPA's authority is to regulate carbon, and we are in

the process based on that understanding of estimating
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what this could cost.

But those numbers -- I don't have those

numbers, and the studies aren't complete.

Q. Okay.

I understand, too, that coal -- that the EPA

is revisiting the issue of whether to declare coal ash

as a hazardous or toxic substance.

Are you aware of those regulations?

A. I have very little awareness of --

Q. Is there anybody in your panel of experts that

can address that and address whether or not that might

be an avenue for another future collateral attack on the

viability of Units 1 and 4?

A. May I take a second to confer with

Mr. Alvidrez?

Q. Sure.

(Discussion off the record.)

MR. DARNELL: The short answer is no.

MR. GOULD: Okay.

Q. My concern, of course, is you're aware of the

history -- I think you address it in your testimony --

that it was just a few years ago in settlement of a

lawsuit brought by -- in part by the NMED that PNM

stored bag houses and some other pollution control

devices at San Juan, and they were installed on Units 2
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and 3, and now that considerable investment is going to

be abandoned.

And so my concern is are we going to face an

upgrade of Units 1 and 4 and going to have to abandon

that investment in a couple years down the line?

A. You know, we're engaged in some speculation

here, but one of the differences is today there are --

there are options for replacement power that I -- that

make me believe that we will -- that PNM will fully make

good on its commitment to bring home the revised

alternative at a cost less than the FIP.

As we go forward and think about possibility

of future retirements, that hurdle is going to be more

and more difficult to meet. So it's hard for me to

imagine a scenario where Units 1 and 4 are not in

service for, you know, the total foreseeable future, but

well into the 2020s.

That's my opinion.

Q. And the foreseeable future, by that do you

mean the expected life of the plant as it's been

extended to 2053?

A. The -- if the regulatory expected life is

2053, and they're -- right now there is nothing that we

have committed to to change that.

Q. Okay. One final question.
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Would PNM object if the -- if the Board

approves this revised SIP, would PNM object to the

insertion of language -- specific language in that

revised SIP that basically stated that all replacement

power alternatives were subject to the jurisdiction and

the approval of the NMPRC?

MR. ALVIDREZ: I think perhaps maybe I should

answer that question, actually.

As we tried to make clear in the course of

this proceeding, you know, we are very reticent to

change anything in the proposed SIP. And we -- I hope

we've made it clear on the record in this case what

PNM's perspective is with respect to, you know, the

anticipated unit retirements, as well as the, you know,

approval for jurisdictional generation in the future.

So I think, you know, the question of

additional generation is not germane to the issue before

this Board or that will ultimately go to the -- the EPA.

So we'd be reluctant to agree or stipulate -- to agree

to any change in the -- in the order that comes out of

this Board.

I -- you know, without having confirmed with

my client, I think we'd certainly be willing to

entertain some sort of perhaps statement into the

record, stipulation along the lines that you've
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discussed.

I don't think what you're talking about is in

dispute, but the appropriateness of having the Board

interject that into the revised SIP is perhaps a

little -- little questionable and could upset the apple

cart.

MR. GOULD: Well, and not to put too fine a

point on it, but the first paragraph of the Term Sheet

does have very specific language saying that this whole

agreement is specifically subject to all necessary EPA,

Department of Justice approval and complies with section

so-and-so of the Clean Air Act.

And I would -- I would like to see -- and my

clients would like to see something that express and

that explicit in whatever order comes out of the -- out

of this Board, particularly since paragraph 4 of the

Term Sheet does refer to a specific plant addition.

So I don't think it's not germane. And I

would simply maybe suggest that we could -- that we

could do the -- copy the same language and simply insert

a paragraph 4 that subject to approval by the New Mexico

Public Regulation Commission and then go on, PNM agrees.

And that will address my concerns in that regard.

So I'll just tender that for your

consideration.
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But thank you.

And thank you, Mr. Darnell.

MR. DARNELL: Thank you, Mr. Gould.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

Any questions from the audience?

Okay. With that, turn it back over to you,

Mr. Alvidrez.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Yes. Thank you very much,

Mr. Hearing Officer.

That concludes our presentation of evidence.

We thank the Board very much for its attention

in this matter.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. We will take a

10-minute break.

MR. MORROW: Wait. You've got one over there.

MR. VOLKERDING: I'm sorry.

Mr. Grantham.

MR. GRANTHAM: Sorry to interrupt.

I just wanted the Board to know there was also

another chapter house president who would like to

give --

MR. VOLKERDING: Oh, thank you.

MR. GRANTHAM: -- public testimony.

MR. VOLKERDING: Can we take a break first and

then come back, have that, and then any closing
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statements from parties?

Okay. Thank you.

(Proceedings in recess from 4:35 p.m. to

4:47 p.m.)

MR. VOLKERDING: Can I have a show of hands of

how many people are interested in doing public comment?

Okay. Just the two of you.

So, yeah, please come on down, and -- and then

after these two public comments, this will be the last

opportunity for public comment.

HUBERT HARWOOD

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MR. HARWOOD: My name is Hubert Harwood,

H-U-B-E-R-T H-A-R-W-O-O-D.

Good afternoon.

My name is Hubert Harwood.

I want to say a little bit about my clan

first. I am actually of the Salt Clan, born for the

folded arms people.

I am the president of the Upper Fruitland

Chapter, a chapter neighboring Farmington and Kirtland,
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with about 2,700 existing Navajo residents living within

our chapter boundaries.

I want to thank you for the opportunity to

speak before you today on a decision that greatly

impacts our Northern New Mexico communities and economy.

As a locally -- local governing entity within

the Navajo Nation, we represent the interests of our

constituents.

Jobs are scarce on the Navajo Nation with an

unemployment rate of over 50 percent, and any impacts on

existing jobs has a trickle-down effect on the

livelihood of our people.

In fact, jobs in the natural resources,

construction and maintenance are among the top job

sector areas within my chapter and the Four Corners

region.

San Juan Generating Station and its coal

supplier, San Juan Coal Mine, are the major employers of

Navajo workers. 24 percent of the power plant workforce

is Native American, primarily Navajo members.

45 percent of the San Juan Coal Mine is compromised of

Navajo workers. 75 percent of the workforce of the two

largest contractors at San Juan Generating Station are

compromised of Navajo workers, also.

I am currently employed at San Juan Generating
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Station as an apprentice mechanic in the maintenance

department. I work on Unit 1, one of the two units that

will remain open with this agreement.

I fully understand what it means to work at a

power plant and not know the future -- what the future

holds regarding my future employment. I also understand

how important these jobs are to the workers and their

family, especially the young families just starting out.

I myself have the resiliency to bounce back in several

fields, agriculture, coal, power plant and just recently

politics.

Our youth and our jobs are why I have

personally taken a stance to be involved and ensure the

interests of my chapters -- my chapter are represented.

Our preference as a chapter, certainly as an

employee, would have been to keep all units open, but

the reality that -- is that a compromise is necessary to

move forward.

And that compromise is the revised State

Implementation Plan for the San Juan Generating Station.

As a chapter, we followed the issue and had discussions

about what to do, and I am here today to present a

resolution before this body on behalf of the Upper

Fruitland Chapter in support of the adoption of the

revised State Implementation Plan for San Juan
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Generating Station.

Thank you for your time.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

SHARON CLAHCHISCHILLIAGE

having been first duly sworn or affirmed, was

examined and testified as follows:

DIRECT TESTIMONY

THE REPORTER: Would you state and spell your

full name, please.

MS. CLAHCHISCHILLIAGE: Good afternoon.

My name is Sharon Clahchischilliage.

I'm --

THE REPORTER: You need to spell it.

MS. CLAHCHISCHILLIAGE: Okay. Yeah.

Sharon, S-H-A-R-O-N, CLAHCHISCHILLIAGE,

C-L-A-H-C-H-I-S-C-H-I-L-L-I-A-G-E.

Okay.

MR. MORROW: Whoa.

MS. CLAHCHISCHILLIAGE: Okay. That was a

wake-up, wasn't it?

Okay. I'm a New Mexico State Representative,

District 4, and PNM is in my district. And I love PNM.

PNM has employed many of my constituents, and I'm very

concerned about the constituents of my District 4.

And it -- the company has also employed many
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members of my family, many veterans who have -- who left

the job at PNM, and were killed in action, and as a

result never returned, and PNM always came forth and

helped us tremendously, helped us tremendously through

this time.

So I would like to also say that I support the

adoption of the revised state implementation for San

Juan Generating Station. And the reason I support this

strongly is because I'm concerned, number one, about my

constituents; number two, I heard my constituents, and

they're all in favor of this. So if there's any way I

can help them, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going

to state my support.

And I want to say that I really appreciate

all the Board being here today to listen to us, and this

is a very tedious task, because I do the same thing you

do during the legislative sessions. And I want to thank

you for being here in San Juan County, and I just

want -- I hope that we can get the support that is

necessary to get this alternative pushed through.

I worked in Washington, DC over -- just

returned from DC about three years ago, and we saw this

coming, about -- when Lisa Jackson was still there. And

it was a concern of ours, and we wondered how it was

going to work through. And I'm watching it now. And
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there are a lot of things back when I was there that we

wondered what the attitude might be, and it's folding

out exactly the way we suspected it would.

And at that time, we were exhausted with

USEPA, and I continue to be exhausted with USEPA, as you

probably are, and as I know a lot of my constituents

are, as well.

So I just want to extend my help. If there's

any additional way that I can help, let me know, and I

can get the senator, Senator Pinto, on board, as well,

and we as a team can definitely do something, because

this is our -- our district.

And thank you for being here.

And thank you again. I appreciate all of

this. And you've had a long day. I think it's time to

adjourn and go home.

Okay. Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

Okay. I will ask for closing argument -- or

closing statements from counsel.

We'll start with Mr. Grantham.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you, Mr. Hearing Officer,

Madam Chair, members of the Board.

It has been a long day, and I'm sure you're

tired, and it gets difficult at this time of day to keep
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your thoughts together in a coherent manner. I will try

to be -- I know it's hard for me. I'll try to be

concise in my -- in my closing argument, or closing

statement.

There are a couple little housekeeping things

I want to mention.

First, I did not move for admission of NMED

Exhibits 1 through 4 or 15, and that wasn't really an

oversight. It's just the fact that those are --

Exhibits 1 through 4 are basically the law. They're

sections of the Clean Air Act and the Code of Federal

Regulations, and they're not really exhibits in the

proper sense, but we provide them in the notice of

intent for the Board's convenience.

And the -- similarly with the proposed

statement of reasons, the regulations provide that the

notice of intent is the place that we can supply you

with our proposed statement of reasons.

But just for the sake of completeness, I'll

move for admission of Exhibits 1 through 4 and 15.

MR. VOLKERDING: And accepted.

(Exhibits NMED 1, 2, 3, 4 and 15 admitted into

evidence.)

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you.

And I want to make absolutely clear what it is
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that we're asking the Board to adopt, what the SIP

proposal consists of, and this is -- specifically it's

the June 27th public review draft which was submitted

in -- which -- there was a -- there was a version of the

SIP that was submitted with our petition, and then we

got comments from EPA, we made slight revisions, and

provided notice to the Board that the public review

draft had been -- had been published.

And so that is what we are asking the Board to

adopt.

So with that, I'll begin my closing remarks by

noting that the -- under the Air Quality Control Act,

the New Mexico Air Quality Control Act, that the duty of

the Board is to prevent or abate air pollution.

And the act also provides that in making its

regulations the Board should consider the character and

degree of injury to or interference with health,

welfare, visibility and property, and the public

interests, including the social and economic value of

sources and subjects of air contaminants.

And the Board has heard a great deal of

testimony today regarding the public interests and the

various aspects of that, including from the Secretary of

the Environment Department, Mr. Flynn, and the Navajo

Nation and various chapter houses and numerous members
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of the public. And so I won't -- I won't try to

recapture that or to restate that, those -- those

reasons, much to your relief, I'm sure.

But I would like to focus on the -- the more

narrow legal requirements that are at issue in approval

of this State Implementation Plan. And as you heard

several witnesses, Ms. Bisbey-Kuehn and Mr. Darnell, I

believe, articulate, that it's really the -- what

approval comes down to is the five statutory factors

that are provided for in the act and in EPA regulations.

And clearly when you apply those factors,

clearly the state alternative is the best -- the best

BART, the Best Available Retrofit Technology

determination.

Two of the factors can be disposed of quickly.

Existing controls, we're all in agreement --

at least the Department and EPA are in agreement that

existing controls are not sufficient to meet the Best

Available Retrofit Technology requirements. And I --

PNM is also in agreement in that -- at this point in the

game.

The remaining useful life really doesn't

factor one way or another, because it's the same for all

scenarios.

So really it comes down to three factors, and
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as you've heard several times throughout the day, that

one of the primary differences is in cost.

One of the primary factors that demonstrates

the superiority of the state alternative is the cost,

the cost of roughly 34 million as compared to 861

million -- 861 -- 100 million -- I'm sorry -- 861

million -- that would be another number -- for the four

SCR scenario. So clearly in terms of costs, the state

alternative is superior.

It also -- another factor is the energy and

nonair impacts. You've heard a lot of testimony about

that in terms of the reduced use of raw materials and of

waste products. The limestone for the scrubbers,

activated carbon, less coal use, less water generation,

and less solid waste generated.

And you have heard specific numbers, and those

are in your written testimony. I won't go through those

again.

And then, lastly, the visibility benefits,

which, as you've also heard from Dr. Kim and other

witnesses for PNM, that for -- the state alternative

receives a visibility improvement that's virtually

indistinguishable from the four SCR scenario. It's less

than half a deciview difference in all Class I areas.

And in fact, in six of the Class I areas, it's actually
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superior to the four SCR plan.

And I just -- at this point, I want to

emphasize that we're comparing it to the four SCR plan,

which is also what the FIP requires, but this is not

a -- the comparison is not a better than BART

comparison.

And this is kind of a legal distinction, that

there's a provision in the Regional Haze Rule for

alternative programs, like such programs that we --

similar to what we have for SO2, that will require a

demonstration that your alternative is better than BART.

This is not a better than BART determination.

This is a determination of BART. And in making that

determination, we're comparing the different scenarios.

One of those scenarios is the four SCR scenario, which

happens to be the FIP, but our determination is that the

state alternative is BART, not that it is better than

some other BART.

So with that, I would respectfully request

that the Board adopt the State Implementation Plan as

contained in the June 27th public review draft.

And one final point in regard to the issue of

including something in the SIP addressing the PRC

jurisdiction.

I shared the concerns that Mr. Alvidrez
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articulated in terms of making any changes to the SIP,

and -- as we stated earlier, and I think as Secretary

Flynn stated, we are very -- caution in the strongest

term possible not to make any substantive changes to the

SIP.

If -- there may be a possibility of addressing

that through the statement of reasons, through a -- some

kind of acknowledgment that the PRC has jurisdiction

over what it has jurisdiction over. However, I don't

really see that the -- the utility of that. I don't

think this Board -- what this Board says about the PRC's

jurisdiction changes the PRC's jurisdiction in any way.

And if -- I guess if we had language in front

of us, we could talk -- we could consider it, but it's

somewhat difficult at this point in time to consider

that on a purely abstract manner.

And there is also a provision in the Term

Sheet that requires that PNM will make all -- all

reasonable efforts to acquire the necessary approvals to

obtain the shutdown, and I think the fact that that's in

the Term Sheet is evidence that it was envisioned that

PNM would have to seek approval from others besides this

Board.

So with that, I -- I won't take up any more of

your time.
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I would also like to add my thanks, my

appreciation to the Board for your service and for the

different perspectives and expertise that you bring and

the hard questions that you ask, and we appreciate that

you give the SIP the consider -- consideration that

it's -- that it's due.

So with that, thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

MS. PEACOCK: I just have a question for

clarification.

So it's Chapter 10, Appendix D, both the 6/27

public review draft and Appendix G, the Term Sheet; is

that right? That's what you're asking that we adopt

into the SIP?

MR. GRANTHAM: Yes. Yes. That's correct.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay. You didn't mention the

Term Sheet, so I wanted to --

MR. GRANTHAM: Yeah. Thanks for that

clarification.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you.

MR. GRANTHAM: Thank you.

MR. VOLKERDING: Mr. Alvidrez.

MR. ALVIDREZ: Just very briefly, if I may

address the Board from here.
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Mr. Grantham went into some detail about the

factors that the Board is to consider, and certainly we

agree with those, and also agree with his statement with

respect to proposed modification to the rule to reflect

jurisdictional issues between this Board and the PRC.

I'm not sure that this is really the time or context to

do that or what -- what binding effect it would have on

a going forward basis.

I hope that we've been clear on the record

about what, you know, our perspective is with respect to

the additional necessary approvals.

So with that, I'd simply say thank you once

again for your attention and service with respect to

this matter. We do appreciate it.

We also appreciate all of the work that the

Department has undertaken in connection with this

process. You know, they certainly took the lead on this

and, you know, brought it before this Board in a timely

manner and in a very complete way and in such a way that

we fully support it, and we'd request again the adoption

of the proposal as presented by the Department.

We think the record in this case has been well

developed with respect to the five-factor BART analysis

and that there is -- there are ample grounds for this

Board to approve the action that's been proposed by the
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Department.

So with that, again, we'd say thank you very

much.

MR. VOLKERDING: Thank you.

Mr. Gould, would you like to make a closing

statement?

MR. GOULD: On the advice of my media advisor,

Mr. Ernie C'de Baca, I think I'm done.

MR. VOLKERDING: Okay. Thank you.

Are there any -- is there any reason to keep

the record open in -- to the hearing?

Hearing none, we'll close the record on the

hearing.

Thank you.

And I will turn the meeting back over to the

Chair.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay. We're going back onto the

agenda, and I'd like to make a motion that we revise the

agenda so that we have the deliberations for 13-02 right

now, then move to item number 8, having the hearing in

EIB 13-03, and then follow that with the deliberations

for 13-03.

And I believe the Board would like to just

power through tonight, if we can, to get through all of

this.
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And will that inconvenience anyone, if we

stay?

MR. HOLT: Second the motion.

MS. PEACOCK: Any discussion?

Okay. All in favor?

(Simultaneous responses.)

MS. PEACOCK: Any opposed?

So we're going to move on to deliberations in

13-02.

As stated in the petition of the Department,

this is a request for a regulatory change to replace in

the 2011 Section 309(g) SIP the following Chapter 10,

Best Available Retrofit Technology (BART) evaluation,

Appendix D, New Mexico Environment Department BART

Determination for San Juan Generating Station.

Those are both the July 27, 2013, public

review drafts with suggested corrections for

typographical and transcription errors as contained in

Exhibit 16 presented today, and that will also include

Appendix G, the Term Sheet.

So that is the request to the Board, to

consider that.

Would anyone like to present their comments.

Okay. I -- oh.

MR. HOLT: If everyone wants to be shy, I'll
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jump in here.

I'm in favor of the proposal. I think as a

practical matter we have a choice between what's

proposed here and what the federal government would

otherwise have us do. What the government -- federal

government would otherwise have us do doesn't do a thing

that advantages beyond what is proposed here and

certainly would cost us a great deal more.

I think that clearly the five elements, this

being a BART, are met, and I like our BART better than I

like the federal government's BART.

MS. PEACOCK: Well, I'll say we're all -- we,

the Board, are disappointed that our 2011 SIP was not

accepted by the EPA, and we're disappointed that we have

to come back to this forum, and we know you've all put

in a lot of work in 2011 and again now, and so have we.

But -- and then there's been this litigation.

And actually, I'm very pleased and surprised that the

three parties, the Department, the EPA and PNM, were all

able to reach a Term Sheet during this litigation. And

litigation doesn't help the environment. I understand

it's a nonbinding Term Sheet, but it's helping to push

the ball forward towards resolving this.

So I'm also in support of accepting the

proposal from the Department.
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I have an inclination to tinker, as you all

know, and I'm going to curb that and recommend that we

not change anything.

Regarding the PRC comment, we -- I don't have

familiarity with PRC. I would not be comfortable saying

anything about what those PRC rules are. I think

there's sufficient evidence in the record that can

support what the parties who do know more about PRC have

to say about that process.

And again, we're just pushing this forward one

step at a time if this Board adopts what was suggested.

I'd like to put into the record, as well, the

Clean Air Act 169A(g)(2) requires that BART

determinations shall take into consideration, one, the

costs of compliance; two, the energy and nonair quality

environmental impacts of compliance; three, any existing

pollution control technology in use at the source; four,

the remaining useful life of the source; and five, the

degree of improvement which may reasonably be

anticipated to result from the use of such technology.

Also, our Board is required under the New

Mexico Air Quality Control Act, NMSA 1978 Section

74-2-5.E, to give weight it deems appropriate to all

facts and circumstances, including but not limited to,

one, character and degree of injury to or interference
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with health, welfare, visibility and property; two, the

public interest, including the social and economic value

of the sources and subjects of air contaminants; and

three, technical practicability and economical --

economic reasonableness of reducing or eliminating air

contaminants from the sources involved and previous

experience with equipment and methods available to

control the air contaminants involved.

I believe that there was ample testimony, both

written and oral, during this hearing to meet all those

requirements. In particular, Mr. Darnell summarized a

lot of the economic and visibility benefits.

Mr. Grantham, you also summarized many of

these points. Mr. Kim -- or Dr. Kim, his graphs were

very helpful.

MR. VOLKERDING: I had a much longer

statement, but I'm going -- in the -- for time and to

not upset the apple cart, as has been used a couple

times today, I will temper some of my statements.

Mainly I wanted to comment that I -- first of

all, I think that the NMED and PNM have done an

outstanding job of showing that the alternative SIP is

superior to the EPA's FIP, both from an environmental

perspective, as well as an economic perspective.

What I did want to touch on briefly is -- is
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the disappointment that we are here doing this again

anyway, that the EPA basically refused to review the

record from the 2011 hearing.

In questioning Secretary Flynn this morning,

he had made the statement that he felt EPA was working

in good faith and -- and since we have not been privy to

all those conversations, I will have to take his

statement at face value.

From the perspective here, however, it doesn't

appear that way, solely because Secretary Flynn felt

that even if NMED and PNM were successful in the Tenth

Circuit, that EPA would merely review the 2011 SIP and

still impose their Federal Implementation Plan and not

consider the additional information that was provided

during that hearing, and seemed to be relying only on

data from 2007.

And so it appears to be far more of a

philosophical or political decision that they are

making, as opposed to truly following the five points of

the Clean Air Act.

I do think that this petition, however, does

do an outstanding job of outlining each of those five

points and showing that the alternative is an excellent

proposal, and would therefore also support the petition

before the Board.
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MS. PEACOCK: Any other Board comments?

Greg?

MR. FULFER: Want me to go?

MS. PEACOCK: Yeah.

MR. FULFER: I'm also disappointed. I think

there's a -- I feel like the people of New Mexico is

once again taking the economic hit. I'm disappointed.

Seems like there's a lot of unfunded mandates that's put

on New Mexico. The vagueness of the terms leaves a lot

to interpretation.

I think the lack of time to do studies on the

amount of -- that New Mexico actually affects these

areas is a critical thing that we're not looking at. I

think the -- just the lack of the requesting federal

research funding to find an answer to what our problem

really is is finding clean coal. I think there should

be money put in place from the federal government when

they request these mandates.

It's -- all these are issues that I hope that

will be on the radar of the leadership, and I'll have to

applaud the -- the Department and the Governor for

filing the lawsuit and coming to terms instead of going

with the federal FIP.

I feel like the harder the economics are on

the people, the more the environmental concerns are
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created, and I think that's what New Mexico has to keep

fighting for.

But in the light of everything, I guess I will

have to support the issue.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

Any other comment?

MR. CASCIANO: I just have a brief comment on

the -- on the technical side and the legal side, it does

appear that the agreement comprehends and comes to the

same determination on the Best Available Retrofit

Technology, which we spent so much time on as a Board

and others in the audience in 2011.

So I do see that as affirmation that we

followed the Clean Air Act, as John said, and -- and

came to the correct interpretation, balancing all the --

all the factors for the amount of environmental gain.

So we did confuse during this hearing, in my

opinion, the reductions due to the control technology

versus the elimination of the operation, which is, you

know, a reduction, and it counts towards reduction, but

it's a different type of reduction, and I think the

intent of, you know, the whole grand scheme of the Clean

Air Act and the different provisions is to do things

that are economically -- economically reasonable and

appropriate and feasible.
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And so I think that the agreement recognizes

that even though the facility is giving up half the

production to eliminate the emissions to kind of do the

balance sheet activity of what the overall impacts are.

But I'll support the resolution as proposed by

the Department in terms of the revised SIP.

MS. PEACOCK: Any other comments?

Okay.

Is there a motion?

MR. MORROW: I'll move.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay.

What are you moving?

MR. MORROW: That we accept the -- I don't

have a -- I don't know the -- between -- where is it?

MS. PEACOCK: You can just say the --

MR. MORROW: The request for regulatory change

that replaces the 2011 -- I can't read it that far away.

Read it for me.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay. I'll help with the motion

here.

We'll just simplify it. The motion would be

to approve the request from the Department as previously

stated.

MR. MORROW: Right.

MR. HOLT: Second.
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MS. PEACOCK: Any further discussion?

Okay. All in favor?

(Simultaneous responses.)

MS. PEACOCK: Any opposed?

Okay. The vote was unanimous.

I'd like to go to the statement of reasons.

Could the Board go to that.

There's been an Order and Statement of Reasons

for Adoption of SIP Revisions proposed by the

Department.

I sign the statement of reasons as the Chair,

and I'd like some discretion from the Board to go

through and revise it to conform with what was said

today, and I'd like to go through the paragraphs or any

changes you might have.

One of the -- I would like to add a paragraph

that -- something to the effect that the Board continues

to believe that the 2011 SIP was adequate and

sufficient. I don't have the exact wording for that,

but something along those lines.

I'd also like to add a paragraph about the

public comment that we received, and there's a lot of

other little changes just to reflect the actual facts

that occurred today.

MR. VOLKERDING: So what are you asking,
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permission to do that, or did you want us to go through

this now?

I'm sorry.

MS. PEACOCK: Are there any -- are there any

paragraphs, is there anything that the Board would like

to change in the statement of reasons?

MR. VOLKERDING: I don't have any.

The only comment I would make is I'm still not

comfortable even in the statement of reasons putting

something in there about PRC's involvement with -- and

PNM and that interplay, for the sole reason that

regardless of what we do or do not say in that context

does not impact PRC at all. PNM will have to apply for

whatever permits through them that are regulatorily

required, and I would rather us be silent.

MS. PEACOCK: And I agree with that.

Are there any other comments on the statement

of reasons?

And I'll make a motion after that.

Okay. I'll move that we adopt the statement

of reasons with revisions to be made by the Chair to

correct some of the facts, for instance, getting rid of

September 6th, filling in the dates, adding a paragraph

about the Board believing that the 2011 SIP was adequate

and sufficient, filling out paragraph 14 about who filed
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the notice of intents, adding a paragraph about the

public comment, adding two paragraphs, 18 and 19, that

we believe the testimony -- that there is ample written

and oral testimony to meet these requirements, and that

the Board considered these facts and circumstances, and

that there was a unanimous vote to accept the proposed

revisions.

MR. VOLKERDING: Second.

MS. PEACOCK: Okay. Any discussion?

Okay. All in favor?

(Simultaneous responses.)

MS. PEACOCK: Any opposed?

Okay.
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STATE OF NEW MEXICO )

) ss.

COUNTY OF BERNALILLO )

I, CHERYL ARREGUIN, the officer before whom the

foregoing proceeding was taken, do hereby certify that

the witnesses whose testimony appears in the foregoing

transcript were duly sworn or affirmed; that I

personally recorded the testimony by machine shorthand;

that said transcript is a true record of the testimony

given by said witnesses; that I am neither attorney nor

counsel for, nor related to or employed by any of the

parties to the action in which this proceeding is taken,

and that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney

or counsel employed by the parties hereto or financially

interested in the action.

 

NOTARY PUBLIC

CCR License Number: 21

Expires: 12/31/2013

My Commission Expires: 12/12/15
$

$1,049 [2] - 170:8,

183:20

$1,050 [1] - 170:8

$109 [1] - 182:8

$150,000 [1] - 32:7

$28 [1] - 184:5

$35 [1] - 184:5

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$430 [2] - 90:5, 90:25

$5,561 [1] - 183:18

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$6,218 [2] - 170:10,

183:16

$6,228 [1] - 170:9

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$805 [1] - 29:17

$824 [2] - 182:7,

182:12

$910 [1] - 182:13

'

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'50s [1] - 157:23

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'95 [1] - 153:19

0

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023 [1] - 113:5

05 [1] - 180:19

06 [1] - 177:22

1

1 [40] - 7:4, 7:14,

32:5, 49:6, 68:22,

70:18, 71:19, 73:5,

73:7, 79:3, 91:1,

108:13, 123:13,

123:14, 123:16,

123:18, 126:14,

134:20, 135:17,

135:25, 142:19,

144:24, 145:13,

181:17, 182:3, 196:6,

196:8, 196:9, 214:4,

214:5, 218:10,

218:19, 219:13,

220:4, 220:15, 226:2,

230:8, 230:10,

230:20, 230:22

1,100 [1] - 143:18

1.15 [1] - 181:20

1.c [5] - 48:20, 49:7,

79:1, 80:19, 123:6

1.d [2] - 49:10, 79:8

10 [24] - 7:21, 8:8,

16:16, 69:2, 69:18,

69:20, 75:6, 78:13,

78:18, 85:6, 86:24,

113:24, 115:7, 115:8,

115:10, 124:14,

162:13, 177:10,

177:12, 177:24,

196:10, 213:25,

236:11, 239:12

10,200 [1] - 131:1

10-2 [3] - 114:22,

115:3, 118:2

10-5 [2] - 114:22,

115:12

10-minute [1] -

223:14

10.5 [1] - 54:8

100 [3] - 4:21,

126:13, 233:6

104 [1] - 4:23

106 [1] - 4:25

10:38 [1] - 65:18

10:52 [1] - 65:19

10a [4] - 7:22, 77:20,

86:16, 86:24

10s [1] - 161:16

11 [10] - 7:23, 69:8,

69:14, 81:24, 85:16,

85:17, 86:24, 204:4,

204:8, 214:13

11.25 [1] - 148:5

110 [1] - 5:6

110.(a)(2)(D [1] -

126:21

1100 [1] - 2:16

119,000 [1] - 91:21

119,592 [1] - 91:16

1190 [1] - 2:10

11:20 [1] - 87:2

11:58 [1] - 109:20

11a [4] - 7:25, 67:22,

86:16, 86:25

12 [8] - 8:4, 82:19,

83:6, 86:25, 196:8,

200:25, 204:5

12,000 [1] - 104:17

12/12/15 [1] - 250:22

12/17/07 [4] - 45:15,

45:16, 45:22, 46:1

12/31/2013 [1] -

250:20

121,000 [1] - 91:22

128 [1] - 5:7

12a [5] - 8:5, 82:5,

86:16, 86:25

13 [2] - 140:8, 214:12

13,000 [3] - 74:1,

119:5, 119:10

13,000-ton [1] -

119:3

13-02 [6] - 10:2, 11:1,

110:6, 162:20,

238:19, 239:9

13-02(R [1] - 1:3

13-03 [2] - 238:21,

238:22

13.6 [1] - 182:5

130 [1] - 74:6

131 [1] - 5:9

139 [1] - 5:11

13th [1] - 72:2

14 [6] - 76:3, 83:9,

170:14, 204:5,

213:14, 248:25

143 [1] - 5:13

146 [1] - 5:15

149 [1] - 91:23

15 [7] - 8:6, 128:21,

169:24, 209:1, 230:8,

230:20, 230:22

15-minute [2] -

65:17, 162:14

150 [3] - 5:17, 32:3,

137:3

151 [1] - 5:19

153 [1] - 53:9

155 [1] - 5:21

157 [1] - 5:23

158 [1] - 5:25

15th [1] - 20:24

16 [11] - 8:8, 70:3,

75:7, 84:14, 85:19,

86:7, 86:17, 86:25,

170:1, 239:19

167 [1] - 6:5

169A [1] - 7:4

169A(g)(2 [1] -

241:13

169B [1] - 7:4

17 [1] - 201:2

17,000 [1] - 92:2

175 [2] - 8:24, 9:9

17th [2] - 20:24, 57:5

18 [5] - 4:5, 112:24,

113:6, 200:25, 249:2

185 [1] - 6:6

19 [4] - 100:21,

168:4, 201:4, 249:2

195 [1] - 6:8

197 [1] - 8:19

1970s [1] - 96:15

1972 [1] - 155:25

1978 [1] - 241:22

1980s [1] - 97:1

1982 [2] - 196:16,

208:5

1991 [1] - 158:2

1996 [1] - 155:25

1999 [1] - 37:19

1:30 [1] - 109:17

1:36 [1] - 109:21

2

2 [40] - 7:5, 61:22,

68:20, 70:21, 71:19,

71:21, 72:3, 72:13,

72:21, 74:20, 85:14,

90:8, 90:17, 91:14,

98:17, 110:19, 112:1,

119:14, 130:25,

135:19, 137:7,

144:24, 161:19,

169:24, 170:1,

181:16, 196:6, 196:8,

196:9, 200:3, 201:17,

202:18, 203:23,

214:4, 214:6, 214:18,

216:24, 219:25,

230:22

2,308 [1] - 148:4

2,700 [1] - 225:1

2.75 [1] - 134:1

20 [3] - 34:5, 129:3,

170:2

20,000 [1] - 134:3

20.1.1 [2] - 11:4,

76:11

200 [2] - 98:25, 137:3

200,000 [1] - 136:1

200-megawatt [1] -

32:3

2000 [1] - 196:16

2001 [5] - 77:12,

83:21, 84:22, 96:17,

118:6

2002 [2] - 84:24,

118:7

2003 [3] - 83:21,

84:24, 118:7

2006 [3] - 37:3,

67:15, 68:2

2007 [7] - 20:24,

21:11, 57:5, 169:2,

169:5, 192:25, 243:16

2008 [2] - 208:5,

208:10

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

1

2009 [2] - 21:2, 148:3

2010 [1] - 96:17

2011 [37] - 14:22,

15:19, 16:16, 19:16,

20:2, 20:18, 20:24,

26:20, 71:22, 73:13,

89:4, 89:10, 125:1,

125:4, 125:8, 125:17,

125:21, 153:19,

169:10, 169:11,

176:5, 177:2, 177:17,

178:21, 179:6,

183:17, 184:10,

188:20, 239:12,

240:13, 240:16,

243:3, 243:12,

245:12, 246:17,

247:18, 248:24

2012 [3] - 15:5, 169:6

2013 [17] - 1:15,

7:14, 68:6, 68:13,

71:18, 72:2, 72:5,

72:12, 72:18, 73:10,

83:2, 84:15, 125:10,

125:12, 169:2,

175:10, 239:16

2013's [1] - 125:22

2014 [1] - 218:15

2015 [1] - 217:7

2016 [2] - 48:22,

123:7

2017 [1] - 112:3

202 [1] - 6:9

2020s [1] - 220:17

2022 [1] - 25:6

203 [1] - 196:12

2053 [3] - 34:14,

220:21, 220:23

207 [1] - 6:11

209 [1] - 8:14

21 [2] - 172:9, 250:20

21,000 [1] - 118:22

212 [1] - 6:12

215 [1] - 6:13

22 [5] - 85:17, 85:20,

86:6, 86:10, 133:16

222-9594 [1] - 2:11

224 [1] - 6:15

227 [1] - 6:17

23 [7] - 19:22,

111:13, 112:15,

112:17, 112:19,

113:8, 168:17

230 [6] - 7:4, 7:5, 7:6,

7:8, 8:7, 133:17

24 [4] - 118:20,

123:11, 170:7, 225:19

24-hour [2] - 178:1,

178:3

241-0733 [1] - 2:21
25 [3] - 161:22,

173:15, 174:4

26 [1] - 148:2

264 [1] - 91:15

27 [1] - 239:16

27th [2] - 231:3,

234:21

3

3 [34] - 7:6, 61:22,

66:8, 68:20, 70:23,

71:24, 72:3, 72:13,

72:21, 74:20, 90:8,

90:17, 91:14, 98:17,

110:19, 119:14,

130:25, 135:20,

136:4, 137:7, 161:19,

170:3, 181:16,

196:10, 200:4,

200:12, 201:17,

202:18, 203:23,

209:1, 214:18,

216:24, 220:1, 230:22

30 [6] - 112:8, 149:2,

181:1, 181:2, 188:22,

190:6

30-day [3] - 79:5,

80:18, 112:2

300 [1] - 189:12

309 [1] - 15:3

309(g [1] - 239:12

318 [1] - 133:25

31st [3] - 48:22,

112:3, 123:7

32 [1] - 195:20

34 [1] - 233:5

34.5 [1] - 182:4

340 [5] - 90:16, 91:8,

91:14, 91:17, 92:3

34127 [1] - 3:4

345 [1] - 135:8

350 [1] - 32:1

36 [2] - 4:6, 57:8

365 [4] - 116:1,

116:4, 116:7, 118:10

38 [2] - 170:11,

174:13

3:00 [1] - 162:17

3:11 [1] - 162:18

4

4 [33] - 7:7, 68:22,

71:3, 72:4, 73:5, 73:7,

79:3, 83:1, 83:3, 91:1,

123:13, 123:14,

123:17, 123:18,

136:4, 181:17, 182:3,

200:2, 203:15, 204:4,

218:10, 218:19,

219:13, 220:4,

220:15, 222:16,

222:21, 227:22,

227:24, 230:8,

230:10, 230:20,

230:22

4.7 [1] - 177:23

40 [7] - 7:5, 7:6, 7:7,

102:17, 113:16,

116:18, 159:4

400 [2] - 99:13,

133:15

414 [1] - 2:20

418 [2] - 203:6,

216:23

418-megawatt [2] -

154:10, 202:19

44 [1] - 211:18

45 [1] - 225:21

453 [1] - 91:13

46 [1] - 133:18

4601 [1] - 1:17

47 [4] - 170:14,

177:22, 183:25,

211:10

48 [1] - 211:20

49 [1] - 170:19

4:35 [1] - 224:3

4:47 [1] - 224:4

5

5 [12] - 7:9, 68:11,

82:25, 84:9, 85:7,

85:14, 86:9, 86:16,

86:24, 119:15, 178:4,

184:4

5,000 [2] - 119:16,

119:18

5,300 [1] - 180:25

5.4 [1] - 118:3

5.8 [1] - 125:7

50 [16] - 74:8, 74:11,

74:12, 74:14, 74:21,

74:23, 74:24, 75:1,

99:6, 150:16, 153:18,

211:17, 211:18,

211:19, 225:10

50-acre [1] - 91:25

500 [1] - 2:15

500,000 [1] - 209:25

500-person [1] -

133:17

505 [4] - 2:11, 2:17,

2:21, 3:5

51 [1] - 7:7

51.308 [1] - 7:5

51.309 [1] - 7:6

53 [2] - 53:9, 211:24

54 [1] - 158:1

54,000 [1] - 92:7

5th [2] - 1:14, 20:18

6

6 [7] - 7:13, 68:14,

83:3, 86:24, 138:1,

200:25, 204:14

6/27 [1] - 236:11

60 [4] - 4:7, 81:5,

113:6, 113:7

600 [1] - 140:6

67 [3] - 4:9, 75:2,

211:16

6th [1] - 248:23

7

7 [8] - 7:15, 10:1,

76:14, 86:24, 128:16,

128:19, 201:9, 209:3

7,385,466 [1] -

196:12

7103 [1] - 1:17

74-2-5.E [1] - 241:23

740 [1] - 135:7

75 [1] - 225:22

77 [1] - 4:11

78 [1] - 146:23

7:30 [1] - 47:17

8

8 [10] - 7:17, 75:24,

84:18, 85:8, 86:24,

170:7, 170:19,

213:24, 213:25,

238:20

8,000 [2] - 119:13,

130:25

800 [3] - 91:23,

99:13, 151:2

81 [1] - 4:13

824 [1] - 210:12

842-4737 [1] - 2:17

86 [12] - 7:12, 7:14,

7:16, 7:18, 7:20, 7:21,

7:22, 7:24, 7:25, 8:4,

8:5, 8:8

861 [3] - 233:5, 233:6

87102 [1] - 2:16

87103 [1] - 2:21

87505 [1] - 2:11

87594-4127 [1] - 3:4

88 [2] - 4:15, 133:15

9

9 [10] - 7:19, 75:24,

86:24, 138:1, 170:3,

170:9, 170:11,

204:14, 209:3, 214:12

90 [4] - 112:7, 112:8,

118:6, 126:13

90,000 [1] - 74:5

910 [1] - 210:12

92 [1] - 4:17

95 [2] - 4:19, 96:2

953 [1] - 94:8

988-4804 [1] - 3:5

98th [5] - 84:7,

84:19, 114:25,

115:16, 116:2

9:20 [1] - 1:19

A

a.m [4] - 1:19, 65:18,

65:19, 109:20

abandon [2] - 61:22,

220:4

abandoned [1] -

220:2

abandonment [1] -

62:13

abate [1] - 231:14

abbreviated [1] -

19:9

abide [3] - 56:3,

186:17, 186:19

ability [1] - 216:20

able [24] - 24:24,

28:14, 31:22, 36:17,

39:23, 49:15, 55:20,

57:20, 101:13,

108:21, 114:12,

114:18, 144:5,

155:17, 157:1, 191:2,

191:19, 199:9,

200:16, 200:17,

206:3, 215:6, 240:20

above-entitled [1] -

1:15

absent [3] - 23:3,

31:17, 46:24

absolutely [5] - 55:4,

64:11, 124:16,

131:15, 230:25

absorb [1] - 99:14

abstract [1] - 235:16

abundant [1] - 98:16

accelerated [1] -

218:11

accept [6] - 40:19,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

2

50:22, 146:18,

146:25, 246:13, 249:6

acceptable [7] -

25:6, 30:22, 51:24,

51:25, 83:17, 84:3,

162:8

accepted [5] - 175:1,

196:25, 209:16,

230:21, 240:14

accepting [1] -

240:24

access [1] - 140:15

accordance [4] -

11:3, 15:3, 70:12,

76:10

according [2] -

148:1, 177:11

accordingly [1] -

48:21

account [5] - 190:3,

190:5, 190:6, 190:11,

190:23

accounting [1] -

208:2

achievable [1] -

68:25

achieve [6] - 20:9,

33:12, 48:4, 124:14,

179:5, 180:19

achieved [4] - 33:4,

33:5, 52:15, 79:10

achievements [1] -

35:14

achieves [1] - 164:5

acid [3] - 74:24,

199:12, 199:16

acknowledge [1] -

35:14

acknowledged [1] -

133:1

acknowledging [2] -

35:3, 62:12

acknowledgment [1]

- 235:8

acquire [2] - 106:15,

235:19

acres [7] - 91:15,

91:16, 91:21, 91:22,

91:23, 92:2, 92:7

act [5] - 10:18, 216:2,

216:3, 231:15, 232:10

Act [19] - 7:4, 22:10,

27:12, 58:14, 58:19,

59:3, 102:25, 126:20,

132:13, 215:25,

222:12, 230:11,

231:12, 231:13,

241:13, 241:22,

243:20, 245:14,

245:23
acting [2] - 52:19,

67:13

action [23] - 15:8,

20:20, 23:5, 23:7,

32:15, 38:13, 41:5,

41:17, 41:19, 41:20,

41:21, 41:22, 45:5,

58:2, 122:13, 135:3,

141:17, 188:20,

193:3, 228:2, 237:25,

250:14, 250:17

actions [3] - 186:18,

186:20, 188:24

activated [4] - 72:24,

72:25, 74:5, 233:14

active [2] - 97:11,

107:24

actively [1] - 47:15

activity [1] - 246:4

acts [1] - 199:13

actual [7] - 80:16,

85:20, 113:3, 118:23,

124:7, 189:22, 247:23

add [15] - 30:5,

54:12, 76:17, 140:24,

154:7, 155:10, 158:3,

190:16, 197:23,

198:1, 216:25, 236:1,

247:16, 247:21

addendum [5] -

175:10, 175:14,

175:18, 176:16,

179:16

Addendum [1] - 7:13

adding [3] - 248:23,

249:1, 249:2

addition [8] - 90:25,

96:24, 106:11,

133:20, 136:24,

211:23, 215:5, 222:17

additional [13] -

12:22, 63:15, 76:16,

111:17, 120:1,

146:22, 179:4,

184:12, 199:17,

221:17, 229:9,

237:11, 243:14

additionally [3] -

61:20, 168:19, 169:9

additions [1] - 59:24

additive [1] - 129:8

address [12] - 16:2,

102:24, 104:21,

114:8, 131:18,

198:24, 209:6,

219:11, 219:21,

222:23, 236:25

addressed [4] -

15:15, 83:12, 103:1,

127:10

addresses [1] -

114:5

addressing [5] -

106:6, 133:5, 138:5,

234:23, 235:6

adds [1] - 199:12

adequate [2] -

247:18, 248:24

adjourn [1] - 229:16

adjustment [1] -

161:21

administration [6] -

21:8, 21:13, 21:18,

31:11, 36:1, 208:1

administration's [1]

- 32:10

administrator[4] -

10:25, 11:25, 12:17,

47:25

Administrator [1] -

48:1

admission [5] -

86:15, 174:23,

196:23, 230:7, 230:20

admit [1] - 191:15

ADMITTED [3] - 7:2,

8:2, 9:2

admitted [6] - 86:23,

86:25, 175:2, 197:1,

209:18, 230:22

adopt [23] - 27:6,

27:10, 37:20, 42:4,

42:15, 53:23, 53:24,

69:14, 78:18, 83:5,

164:16, 166:11,

170:24, 172:20,

172:23, 174:19,

196:19, 209:11,

231:1, 231:10,

234:20, 236:13,

248:20

adopted [9] - 20:1,

28:9, 35:2, 37:19,

42:8, 53:21, 141:1,

165:10, 199:19

adopting [3] - 27:12,

46:12, 52:20

adoption [9] - 21:17,

100:2, 109:6, 142:23,

145:19, 165:2,

226:24, 228:7, 237:20

Adoption [2] - 8:7,

247:9

adopts [3] - 42:9,

218:3, 241:11

advantage [3] -

34:15, 148:14, 215:7

advantages [2] -

25:24, 240:7

adverse [3] - 34:19,

96:9, 129:4

adversely [4] - 80:6,

80:7, 122:12, 129:10

advice [1] - 238:7

advisor [1] - 238:7

Advocates [1] -

146:14

advocating [1] -

137:22

affairs [3] - 207:20,

208:9, 208:12

affect [2] - 69:23,

75:12

affected [4] - 108:11,

135:12, 142:17,

143:19

affecting [3] - 11:16,

126:13, 127:20

affects [3] - 40:11,

101:9, 244:12

Affidavits [1] - 7:15

affirm [1] - 27:9

affirmation [1] -

245:13

affirmed [33] - 17:14,

18:2, 67:5, 77:2,

81:14, 88:9, 88:13,

92:22, 95:18, 100:7,

104:2, 104:4, 106:22,

110:3, 131:20,

139:19, 139:21,

143:6, 146:2, 149:21,

150:2, 151:22, 155:2,

157:10, 158:18,

167:9, 167:13,

194:19, 195:2, 207:2,

224:12, 227:5, 250:9

afford [2] - 150:21,

188:2

affordability [1] -

152:15

Affordable [2] - 91:6,

146:14

affordable [1] - 89:1

afforded [1] - 22:9

aforementioned [1] -

148:6

afternoon [16] - 88:5,

132:4, 140:1, 143:13,

146:5, 150:7, 151:25,

152:24, 155:12,

157:18, 202:11,

202:12, 215:17,

215:18, 224:19,

227:10

Agency [4] - 7:10,

78:6, 89:19, 105:4

agenda [3] - 148:13,

238:18, 238:19

aging [1] - 25:19

ago [8] - 15:4, 32:16,

102:17, 114:2,

156:18, 160:19,

219:22, 228:22

agree [25] - 23:19,

25:7, 25:12, 39:7,

50:4, 53:18, 54:23,

55:11, 58:5, 61:9,

61:20, 62:15, 62:16,

62:21, 105:18,

172:20, 191:19,

193:24, 214:3, 216:7,

221:19, 237:3, 248:16

agreeable [1] - 52:1

agreed [13] - 32:1,

32:5, 32:7, 50:22,

52:16, 55:15, 78:8,

108:8, 122:17, 151:9,

151:13, 151:14, 199:6

agreed-upon [1] -

78:8

agreeing [1] - 121:9

agreement [65] -

16:2, 26:2, 26:5,

26:12, 31:15, 31:17,

31:19, 31:25, 32:3,

32:17, 35:9, 40:3,

43:7, 43:15, 44:8,

46:8, 46:24, 46:25,

47:2, 48:3, 52:15,

52:23, 53:6, 53:8,

55:6, 55:7, 55:17,

55:21, 56:4, 56:9,

56:11, 56:12, 56:15,

56:23, 57:13, 61:3,

61:5, 68:8, 90:2, 90:3,

90:7, 97:22, 105:7,

108:8, 108:10,

108:25, 121:15,

142:9, 142:15, 145:5,

175:11, 177:4,

186:10, 186:20,

187:23, 200:6, 204:2,

222:10, 226:3,

232:16, 232:17,

232:20, 245:9, 246:1

agreements [2] -

61:1, 200:20

agrees [2] - 203:20,

222:22

agriculture [1] -

226:10

ahead [10] - 88:1,

88:3, 105:22, 106:4,

111:3, 176:17,

212:17, 212:18, 213:7

air [22] - 25:22,

48:10, 83:16, 103:3,

160:24, 168:7,

168:25, 171:10,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

3

171:16, 171:18,

172:10, 173:16,

175:9, 181:12,

197:15, 208:15,

231:14, 231:20,

242:3, 242:5, 242:8

Air [26] - 7:4, 13:13,

22:10, 27:12, 58:14,

58:19, 59:3, 67:14,

77:10, 77:11, 80:23,

102:24, 126:20,

126:23, 127:2,

132:13, 180:12,

222:12, 230:11,

231:12, 231:13,

241:13, 241:22,

243:20, 245:14,

245:23

alarmist [1] - 88:22

Albuquerque [4] -

2:16, 2:21, 24:14,

100:14

alleged [1] - 104:22

alleviate [1] - 31:9

Alliance [2] - 104:14,

104:20

allow [15] - 23:22,

25:23, 34:14, 55:10,

55:23, 61:21, 131:17,

139:6, 145:17, 189:8,

189:10, 190:20,

190:21, 200:21

allowed [2] - 192:12,

214:19

allowing [4] - 23:20,

61:21, 103:16, 104:11

allows [5] - 34:10,

94:1, 189:18, 189:19,

212:3

almost [3] - 74:1,

96:16, 189:13

alternative [46] -

16:25, 19:15, 23:14,

23:23, 24:10, 24:24,

25:21, 26:11, 33:5,

34:1, 34:19, 73:19,

73:20, 85:1, 85:3,

85:9, 85:12, 85:17,

85:24, 86:4, 86:9,

101:23, 105:13,

125:21, 132:8,

132:11, 132:24,

134:18, 135:24,

137:13, 137:17,

138:3, 154:18,

185:14, 205:7,

220:11, 228:20,

232:12, 233:4, 233:9,

233:21, 234:9,

234:11, 234:17,
242:22, 243:23

alternatives [6] -

77:25, 96:8, 135:14,

198:4, 198:18, 221:5

Alvarado [1] - 209:7

Alvidrez [18] - 6:5,

6:8, 6:11, 13:23,

128:2, 131:13, 139:2,

148:25, 162:22,

162:25, 185:5,

185:10, 193:8,

206:20, 219:15,

223:7, 234:25, 236:23

ALVIDREZ [67] -

2:14, 13:21, 60:3,

86:21, 128:4, 128:6,

131:15, 139:3, 149:2,

149:8, 162:23,

167:10, 167:16,

167:17, 167:21,

168:1, 168:9, 168:12,

169:13, 169:18,

169:21, 170:22,

171:2, 171:8, 171:13,

171:20, 171:24,

172:3, 172:14,

172:17, 172:22,

173:1, 173:7, 173:12,

173:18, 173:21,

174:6, 174:10,

174:14, 174:18,

174:22, 175:3, 179:9,

180:1, 182:20,

184:20, 185:8,

185:15, 185:23,

185:25, 187:13,

190:15, 193:13,

193:25, 194:13,

194:20, 195:5,

196:22, 197:2,

206:21, 207:5,

209:14, 209:19,

212:9, 221:7, 223:8,

236:24

ameliorate [1] -

203:4

American [3] -

133:16, 133:19,

225:20

ammonia [5] - 79:15,

79:19, 79:21, 83:13,

83:22

amount [19] - 13:1,

57:17, 70:25, 74:3,

74:9, 74:11, 74:12,

79:19, 106:11,

136:25, 161:15,

176:3, 181:6, 190:18,

211:3, 217:19,

244:12, 245:16

amounts [1] - 61:3

ample [3] - 237:24,

242:9, 249:3

analyses [5] -

168:17, 168:21,

168:22, 169:1, 175:7

Analysis [1] - 7:13

analysis [38] - 69:17,

69:24, 70:14, 70:17,

71:15, 71:23, 72:4,

72:11, 72:18, 73:3,

73:17, 76:8, 82:11,

83:15, 83:25, 120:9,

125:5, 125:8, 125:10,

125:13, 125:22,

125:23, 165:12,

168:23, 168:24,

171:17, 175:22,

179:13, 183:1, 183:3,

184:6, 189:10,

191:24, 203:24,

206:8, 218:18, 237:23

announce [1] - 186:8

announced [1] - 35:8

announcements [1]

- 141:21

annual [5] - 84:20,

181:25, 182:4, 183:6,

183:10

annualized [4] -

120:8, 181:23, 182:8,

184:1

annualizing [1] -

183:9

answer [17] - 49:5,

54:20, 108:16,

126:25, 127:24,

130:8, 130:19,

185:21, 192:6,

200:10, 200:23,

205:4, 217:24, 218:2,

219:18, 221:8, 244:15

answers [1] - 123:19

anti [2] - 88:23,

89:17

anti-fossil [2] -

88:23, 89:17

anticipate [2] -

41:14, 218:20

anticipated [4] -

105:25, 128:23,

221:14, 241:20

anyway [1] - 243:2

anyways [1] - 158:8

apart [1] - 55:7

apologize [1] -

163:12

appealed [1] -

141:17

Appeals [1] - 186:5

appear [7] - 57:19,

96:9, 98:5, 104:24,

163:13, 243:10, 245:9

appearance [4] -

12:13, 12:15, 13:6,

13:17

appeared [1] -

169:10

Appendix [12] - 7:7,

8:8, 16:17, 69:18,

69:20, 75:6, 84:18,

115:4, 236:11,

236:12, 239:14,

239:20

applaud [5] - 39:2,

40:1, 40:19, 244:21

applauding [2] -

35:4, 35:16

apple [2] - 222:5,

242:18

applicable [4] -

76:10, 81:6, 167:2,

187:4

application [6] -

68:4, 112:9, 112:10,

121:19, 169:2, 217:17

applications [1] -

168:7

applied [1] - 73:7

apply [6] - 11:10,

112:2, 134:10,

204:24, 232:11,

248:13

applying [2] - 119:7,

119:16

appointed [1] - 18:23

appreciate [17] -

40:21, 60:21, 63:6,

100:3, 105:1, 120:13,

138:8, 144:10, 157:3,

157:19, 158:25,

163:10, 228:14,

229:14, 236:4,

237:14, 237:15

appreciates [1] -

109:14

appreciation [1] -

236:2

apprentice [1] -

226:1

approach [1] - 78:8

appropriate [11] -

19:15, 63:23, 64:1,

64:17, 80:14, 131:9,

181:21, 185:5, 217:7,

241:23, 245:25

appropriateness [1]

- 222:3

approvable [2] -

53:19, 54:1

approval [15] -

41:12, 44:21, 45:2,

48:23, 106:15,

122:22, 165:21,

204:19, 221:6,

221:15, 222:11,

222:21, 232:5, 232:9,

235:22

approvals [6] -

165:17, 166:4, 187:7,

187:11, 235:19,

237:11

approve [24] - 15:11,

20:25, 23:19, 28:8,

41:3, 41:22, 42:4,

42:12, 42:14, 42:16,

52:2, 61:10, 92:11,

92:12, 106:14,

121:25, 148:22,

154:5, 164:22,

185:12, 187:21,

212:7, 237:25, 246:22

approved [17] -

14:23, 15:5, 15:13,

15:19, 16:16, 61:10,

83:19, 89:10, 89:16,

105:16, 125:7,

140:25, 150:25,

164:14, 186:21,

186:22, 187:7

approves [6] - 41:5,

65:11, 81:4, 81:7,

121:6, 221:2

approving [1] -

121:25

April [11] - 7:14,

18:23, 68:5, 68:13,

72:2, 72:5, 72:12,

72:17, 72:18, 73:10,

175:10

APS [1] - 95:2

arbitrary [2] - 50:12,

64:13

area [35] - 34:9,

53:12, 82:13, 84:8,

84:11, 84:22, 85:7,

85:19, 85:25, 86:2,

91:18, 91:20, 95:3,

108:16, 115:20,

116:18, 117:2,

132:22, 135:18,

137:4, 137:5, 138:5,

138:14, 141:8,

143:18, 145:16,

150:13, 151:10,

151:16, 161:12,

167:25, 171:11,

177:7, 181:12, 191:8

area's [1] - 150:17

areas [13] - 40:10,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

4

40:14, 84:14, 86:8,

137:23, 177:19,

177:21, 178:7, 215:4,

225:15, 233:24,

233:25, 244:13

arena [1] - 44:17

arguing [1] - 59:5

argument [4] -

45:18, 45:25, 229:19,

230:3

arise [2] - 187:14,

187:15

Arizona [1] - 160:10

Armageddon [1] -

88:23

arms [1] - 224:23

arrangement [1] -

200:15

Arreguin [1] - 11:21

ARREGUIN [1] -

250:6

arrived [2] - 20:22,

89:25

art [1] - 180:22

articulate [1] - 232:8

articulated [1] -

235:1

ascertain [1] - 79:8

ash [6] - 73:1, 74:13,

159:19, 181:6, 219:6

aside [1] - 39:23

aspect [2] - 178:17,

214:25

aspects [4] - 24:15,

133:10, 175:9, 231:23

assess [1] - 35:22

assessment [5] -

71:3, 71:4, 71:11,

72:17, 73:9

assigned [1] - 68:2

assistant [2] - 13:10,

169:3

Assistant [1] - 2:8

associated [7] -

33:24, 37:22, 46:20,

97:7, 151:10, 198:22,

217:10

association [1] -

38:5

Association [4] -

96:1, 98:2, 98:22,

100:1

assume [1] - 208:9

assuming [3] -

42:11, 65:11, 200:6

assumptions [3] -

120:15, 120:17,

197:19

assurance [1] -

216:19
assurances [3] -

45:18, 45:23, 47:3

assure [1] - 51:12

assures [1] - 45:24

asterisk [1] - 48:21

atmospheric [1] -

168:16

attached [7] - 8:14,

8:19, 8:24, 9:8,

119:23, 120:4, 169:15

attack [3] - 94:25,

218:10, 219:12

attempt [2] - 23:5,

105:21

attendance [1] -

11:14

attended [1] - 67:20

attention [4] - 131:7,

183:25, 223:11,

237:13

attitude [2] - 204:6,

229:2

attorney [8] - 45:8,

45:11, 62:1, 62:3,

63:24, 215:23,

250:12, 250:15

Attorney [7] - 23:4,

38:22, 39:6, 39:10,

39:16, 40:15

Attorneys [1] - 2:15

attorneys [2] - 13:17,

13:20

attractive [1] -

150:18

attrition [2] - 98:14,

214:15

audience [6] - 63:3,

130:13, 194:11,

206:18, 223:5, 245:12

August [1] - 20:2

Authority [1] - 200:5

authority [5] - 23:6,

44:5, 58:17, 216:9,

218:24

authorization [1] -

96:23

authorize [1] - 216:9

available [7] - 70:19,

71:20, 120:10,

164:13, 212:10, 242:7

AVAILABLE [1] - 1:5

Available [10] - 10:4,

10:22, 14:25, 19:19,

165:13, 168:22,

232:13, 232:19,

239:13, 245:10

avenue [1] - 219:12

Avenue [2] - 2:15,

2:20

average [11] - 79:6,

80:18, 84:20, 88:24,

89:23, 91:19, 112:2,

118:3, 118:8, 134:2,

148:11

avoid [2] - 11:17,

25:18

aware [12] - 19:8,

19:16, 22:6, 37:5,

37:21, 38:2, 64:8,

98:18, 139:4, 152:19,

219:8, 219:20

awareness [2] -

32:10, 219:9

B

B-E-G-A-Y-E [1] -

143:12

B-E-N-A-L-L-Y [1] -

93:3

Baca [1] - 238:8

bachelor[3] - 67:18,

77:15, 77:16

bachelor's [3] -

172:6, 173:24, 195:21

back-and-forth [1] -

51:23

background [14] -

16:7, 19:7, 19:9, 53:4,

67:17, 77:14, 82:1,

83:22, 84:19, 168:13,

172:4, 173:22,

195:19, 207:25

backwards [1] -

95:10

BACT [2] - 168:21,

203:23

bad [4] - 21:6, 55:15,

64:10, 85:13

bag [1] - 219:24

balance [11] - 97:15,

107:10, 132:16,

150:22, 164:5,

164:18, 191:2, 191:7,

191:10, 191:13, 246:4

balanced [1] -

136:12

balances [1] - 34:7

balancing [2] -

136:10, 245:15

ball [1] - 240:23

ballpark [1] - 148:15

bar [1] - 110:16

bargain [2] - 90:6,

122:5

BART [79] - 7:7,

7:13, 10:5, 14:25,

15:7, 15:9, 15:11,

15:14, 15:17, 15:21,

16:3, 16:10, 16:12,

16:18, 19:19, 20:4,

22:12, 37:1, 68:1,

68:3, 68:13, 69:17,

70:10, 70:13, 70:16,

70:17, 70:20, 71:15,

72:19, 73:22, 75:10,

77:23, 77:25, 81:1,

82:9, 82:11, 83:15,

83:25, 117:22,

118:20, 127:4, 135:4,

137:11, 145:3,

163:15, 165:12,

168:20, 168:21,

168:24, 169:5,

171:17, 175:7,

175:23, 176:10,

178:12, 179:13,

179:23, 180:8, 180:9,

180:10, 181:22,

183:3, 185:13, 213:3,

218:4, 232:13, 234:5,

234:11, 234:12,

234:13, 234:17,

234:18, 237:23,

239:13, 239:14,

240:10, 240:11,

241:13

BART-related [1] -

168:20

Base [1] - 201:10

base [2] - 140:13,

140:15

based [22] - 42:22,

71:25, 72:5, 72:6,

72:11, 72:18, 73:9,

73:17, 84:12, 84:19,

86:6, 86:10, 118:25,

120:9, 122:2, 163:22,

175:11, 176:11,

182:9, 189:7, 191:8,

218:25

baseline [7] - 85:14,

118:21, 176:25,

192:4, 192:5, 202:17

basic [1] - 121:15

Basin [1] - 99:7

basis [8] - 79:6,

84:16, 112:2, 176:15,

178:22, 206:11,

211:11, 237:8

Bates [1] - 15:4

battle [1] - 22:6

BE [1] - 1:14

beauty [1] - 58:19

became [4] - 20:13,

24:23, 29:6, 37:7

become [9] - 28:13,

42:5, 47:8, 112:13,

112:16, 112:18,

112:22, 112:25,

215:23

becomes [3] - 11:23,

181:8, 181:15

began [1] - 23:11

Begaye [2] - 143:11,

143:15

BEGAYE [4] - 5:12,

139:18, 143:5, 143:11

begin [3] - 106:16,

128:23, 231:11

beginning [1] - 94:13

begun [1] - 102:7

Behalf [4] - 8:11,

8:16, 8:22, 9:6

behalf [12] - 45:11,

104:19, 109:4,

142:21, 142:22,

144:19, 145:18,

152:4, 155:8, 162:25,

168:9, 226:23

behind [4] - 159:13,

191:10, 191:13, 198:3

beleaguered [1] -

89:20

beliefs [1] - 144:6

below [4] - 34:4,

101:14, 113:3, 201:4

Ben [2] - 131:25,

132:5

BEN [3] - 5:8,

131:19, 131:25

Benally [2] - 93:3

BENALLY [5] - 4:16,

66:17, 88:7, 92:21,

93:2

beneficial [2] -

106:2, 133:11

beneficiary [1] - 92:6

benefit [5] - 86:3,

94:23, 150:18,

192:20, 215:5

benefits [14] - 32:21,

33:10, 48:4, 94:3,

94:20, 95:7, 150:15,

164:13, 179:4,

188:24, 210:23,

211:13, 233:19,

242:12

bent [1] - 95:10

BERNALILLO [1] -

250:3

BEST [1] - 1:5

Best [10] - 10:4,

10:22, 14:24, 19:18,

165:13, 168:22,

232:13, 232:18,

239:13, 245:10

best [37] - 23:16,

24:20, 25:16, 26:15,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

5

26:18, 27:24, 34:11,

35:5, 35:20, 35:23,

39:8, 39:24, 40:3,

47:5, 53:18, 54:1,

54:6, 98:11, 99:16,

105:13, 108:5, 120:9,

142:7, 144:21, 145:2,

152:21, 153:25,

154:18, 156:19,

156:21, 158:5,

198:11, 205:1,

217:18, 232:12

better [17] - 49:18,

54:12, 85:10, 103:3,

106:3, 116:11,

126:25, 130:7, 162:5,

177:19, 178:23,

198:14, 234:5,

234:11, 234:12,

234:17, 240:10

between [26] - 30:22,

35:19, 47:18, 68:8,

78:4, 86:8, 90:2, 96:8,

99:12, 100:14,

102:11, 113:5,

124:25, 125:2,

143:17, 179:1,

181:12, 189:12,

190:11, 191:16,

198:14, 206:7,

210:12, 237:5, 240:3,

246:14

Between [1] - 7:9

beyond [10] - 33:10,

43:12, 56:16, 73:5,

120:2, 144:7, 144:8,

148:18, 177:17, 240:7

BHP [1] - 160:23

bid [3] - 190:25,

191:1, 191:2

bidders [3] - 182:11,

190:24, 191:1

bidding [1] - 148:9

bids [7] - 29:14,

29:15, 182:11,

184:15, 189:22, 191:6

big [3] - 125:20,

161:2, 188:20

bigger [1] - 181:2

biggest [2] - 138:11,

159:21

bilateral [2] - 26:2,

56:9

bill [3] - 152:14,

161:20, 161:21

Bill [1] - 13:10

BILL [1] - 2:8

bill.grantham@

state.nm.us [1] - 2:12

billion [4] - 89:20,
134:20, 148:3, 189:13

bills [1] - 151:3

bind [2] - 187:20,

217:12

binding [6] - 43:24,

44:15, 204:10,

216:19, 216:21, 237:7

bio [1] - 207:21

biomass [1] - 147:1

bipartisan [2] - 39:1,

39:22

BISBEY [18] - 4:8,

5:4, 17:13, 67:4,

110:2, 117:16,

118:25, 119:5, 119:8,

119:13, 119:18,

120:6, 120:21,

124:11, 124:14,

124:19, 130:22, 131:3

Bisbey [8] - 7:24,

7:25, 13:14, 33:11,

67:3, 67:11, 130:19,

232:7

BISBEY-KUEHN [18]

- 4:8, 5:4, 17:13, 67:4,

110:2, 117:16,

118:25, 119:5, 119:8,

119:13, 119:18,

120:6, 120:21,

124:11, 124:14,

124:19, 130:22, 131:3

Bisbey-Kuehn [8] -

7:24, 7:25, 13:14,

33:11, 67:3, 67:11,

130:19, 232:7

bit [12] - 22:19,

26:23, 38:14, 49:16,

107:20, 113:12,

119:21, 126:4, 126:6,

157:21, 186:6, 224:21

Black [17] - 8:20,

14:5, 167:23, 168:3,

169:7, 171:11, 172:9,

175:17, 175:21,

176:13, 179:15,

182:24, 184:9,

190:18, 197:24,

198:8, 211:10

BLM [1] - 75:24

block [2] - 202:19,

204:6

Bloomberg [1] -

153:17

BOARD [5] - 1:1,

36:22, 110:12, 185:2,

212:13

board [2] - 44:6,

229:10

Board [162] - 1:17,

2:2, 4:6, 5:6, 6:6,

6:12, 10:18, 11:24,

12:6, 12:19, 13:9,

13:22, 14:10, 14:18,

14:21, 14:23, 15:19,

18:6, 19:1, 19:5,

19:10, 19:16, 20:16,

21:8, 22:3, 26:20,

36:20, 40:25, 41:3,

41:5, 41:11, 41:13,

41:22, 42:12, 42:14,

43:17, 44:3, 51:12,

52:19, 53:22, 53:23,

54:12, 54:17, 54:24,

55:2, 60:18, 61:12,

62:11, 63:8, 63:14,

65:6, 65:9, 65:11,

66:25, 70:7, 75:6,

81:3, 87:3, 87:10,

88:21, 93:4, 105:1,

109:5, 109:14, 110:9,

110:10, 110:25,

111:20, 118:16,

121:6, 121:21,

121:25, 126:1,

130:24, 131:7, 131:9,

131:18, 132:3, 134:8,

137:21, 139:6,

143:13, 146:6,

151:25, 153:14,

154:5, 154:12,

154:20, 162:24,

163:3, 163:7, 163:17,

163:21, 164:19,

165:8, 165:10, 166:8,

169:10, 172:15,

179:10, 180:2,

183:17, 184:9,

184:23, 185:12,

185:17, 186:21,

187:10, 187:24,

188:14, 191:25,

195:13, 197:3, 198:5,

198:20, 199:23,

202:4, 207:14, 210:9,

212:6, 212:11,

217:24, 221:1,

221:18, 221:21,

222:3, 222:16,

223:11, 223:19,

228:15, 229:23,

231:1, 231:7, 231:9,

231:14, 231:16,

231:21, 234:20,

235:11, 235:23,

236:2, 236:25, 237:2,

237:5, 237:18,

237:25, 238:23,

239:21, 240:13,

241:11, 241:21,

243:25, 244:1,

245:11, 247:7,

247:12, 247:17,

248:5, 248:24, 249:5

Board's [3] - 11:4,

21:16, 230:14

bodies [1] - 166:5

body [6] - 102:4,

142:22, 145:18,

204:20, 226:23

boiler [1] - 206:1

bonus [1] - 164:15

born [1] - 224:22

bottom [3] - 40:7,

181:13, 211:8

Boulevard [1] - 1:18

bounce [1] - 226:9

boundaries [1] -

225:2

bounded [1] - 181:16

Box [1] - 3:4

brand [1] - 125:22

breach [1] - 56:12

bread [1] - 138:19

break [12] - 63:9,

63:21, 65:17, 66:11,

87:4, 87:5, 109:10,

112:12, 112:23,

162:14, 223:14,

223:24

break-in [2] - 112:12,

112:23

breakdown [1] -

116:24

breaker [1] - 50:21

breaks [1] - 200:3

brief [12] - 14:19,

100:18, 163:1, 167:5,

175:4, 180:3, 182:21,

197:3, 197:5, 209:20,

209:22, 245:7

briefly [12] - 19:11,

70:13, 73:17, 152:7,

168:1, 172:3, 173:12,

195:18, 207:14,

207:24, 236:24,

242:25

bring [4] - 164:16,

180:14, 220:10, 236:3

broad [1] - 34:21

broader [1] - 28:21

brother[1] - 96:24

brought [5] - 89:11,

141:23, 155:25,

219:23, 237:18

brutal [1] - 190:19

BS [2] - 168:15,

208:1

BTU [9] - 69:3, 79:5,

80:18, 111:13, 112:1,

113:4, 180:20, 199:5,

199:7

BTUs [1] - 180:21

budge [1] - 50:4

budgets [1] - 37:24

build [8] - 32:3, 61:3,

61:5, 147:9, 151:9,

156:1, 216:9, 217:9

built [4] - 61:15,

61:16, 147:19, 181:11

bulleted [1] - 170:2

bullets [1] - 201:1

bullies [2] - 160:15

bunch [3] - 160:2,

160:15

burden [1] - 217:21

Bureau [10] - 7:18,

13:13, 67:14, 75:21,

77:11, 77:12, 80:24,

96:15, 96:18, 96:20

Bureau's [1] - 81:23

bureaucracy [1] -

153:12

bureaucratic [2] -

167:1, 167:2

buses [2] - 138:15

business [2] - 159:4,

208:1

businesses [3] -

153:24, 208:14,

209:25

butterflies [1] -

91:12

buy [1] - 161:8

BV [1] - 183:13

BV-3 [2] - 183:2,

183:13

BY [16] - 36:22,

60:13, 67:8, 70:9,

77:5, 81:17, 110:12,

128:12, 167:16,

185:2, 195:5, 197:2,

202:10, 207:5,

212:13, 215:16

C

C'de [1] - 238:8

C-L-A-H-C-H-I-S-CH-I-L-L-I-A-G-E [1] -

227:16

C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D

[1] - 88:19

Cabo [1] - 91:22

calculate [4] -

115:18, 115:20,

115:22, 115:24

calculated [1] - 13:1

calculation [2] -

183:4, 192:3

calculations [2] -

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

6

118:19, 189:7

CALDWELL [1] -

88:5

California [3] -

30:10, 200:5, 208:2

Californian [1] -

30:10

CALPOST [3] -

115:17, 115:20,

115:22

CALPUFF [7] -

83:19, 115:18, 125:6,

125:8, 125:9, 125:11

campaign [2] - 25:3,

161:8

Canada [1] - 174:3

cannot [4] - 20:20,

34:6, 43:9, 187:20

Canyon [1] - 157:24

capacity [5] - 90:19,

140:7, 163:7, 165:25,

203:23

capital [12] - 120:7,

129:12, 180:15,

181:24, 182:4, 182:7,

183:6, 183:7, 183:8,

183:9, 198:10, 198:12

capricious [1] -

64:14

capturing [1] - 124:9

carbon [8] - 33:13,

72:25, 74:5, 211:17,

211:19, 218:15,

218:24, 233:14

care [4] - 26:3,

144:6, 147:16, 159:21

career [3] - 108:22,

135:24, 145:15

careers [1] - 144:1

carefully [1] - 204:15

caring [1] - 146:10

Carla [2] - 104:9,

104:13

CARLA [4] - 4:22,

104:1, 104:3, 104:10

carried [1] - 69:22

carry [1] - 163:9

cart [2] - 222:6,

242:18

CASCIANO [13] -

2:4, 118:9, 118:18,

119:2, 119:6, 119:9,

119:15, 119:19,

120:11, 120:22,

188:16, 191:18, 245:7

Casciano [2] -

118:17, 188:15

case [39] - 15:24,

22:15, 27:18, 30:9,

38:14, 39:14, 42:25,
43:22, 44:25, 46:10,

46:18, 57:22, 58:12,

70:16, 102:15, 113:5,

118:5, 122:7, 127:14,

127:22, 129:7,

163:18, 166:19,

166:20, 169:15,

172:24, 175:5,

177:15, 179:19,

195:25, 196:11,

206:3, 207:22,

208:17, 209:21,

221:12, 237:22

case-by-case [1] -

70:16

cases [1] - 38:8

catalyst [1] - 199:13

catalytic [6] - 20:6,

20:7, 133:1, 134:21,

141:3, 172:11

catch-21 [1] - 92:9

catch-22 [1] - 92:9

caused [1] - 166:20

causing [2] - 134:24,

157:24

caution [3] - 164:18,

164:19, 235:3

cautious [1] - 206:9

caveat [1] - 154:7

CCN [2] - 217:5,

217:17

CCR [1] - 250:20

Center [2] - 91:15,

91:19

center [2] - 97:12,

143:25

certain [7] - 25:11,

52:22, 61:3, 71:1,

122:21, 180:15,

185:16

certainly [22] - 31:2,

31:7, 59:2, 97:8,

97:24, 98:21, 103:18,

139:6, 146:12,

148:21, 168:15,

169:23, 179:14,

185:18, 197:23,

201:25, 221:23,

226:15, 237:2,

237:17, 240:8

certainty [3] - 50:19,

106:18, 108:4

Certificate [1] -

217:5

certification [1] -

62:13

certify [1] - 250:7

cetera [2] - 56:6,

59:19

CFR [3] - 7:5, 7:6,

7:7

CH [1] - 157:15

Chair [34] - 13:9,

37:4, 37:14, 37:17,

38:1, 38:9, 38:24,

41:1, 41:6, 47:14,

49:12, 51:4, 51:5,

51:11, 54:19, 56:2,

56:7, 57:7, 66:25,

88:20, 111:19,

121:10, 130:23,

131:7, 132:2, 143:13,

151:25, 162:24,

193:13, 229:23,

238:16, 247:11,

248:21

chair [2] - 18:5,

130:23

chairman [1] - 140:8

Chairman [3] - 93:4,

96:4, 146:6

challenge [2] - 39:9,

102:10

challenged [4] -

15:23, 22:1, 38:10,

38:12

challenges [1] -

166:16

Change [3] - 8:14,

8:18, 9:8

change [24] - 29:2,

55:22, 64:14, 71:22,

71:25, 75:13, 84:7,

84:19, 89:14, 89:22,

124:22, 135:13,

177:10, 177:12,

177:23, 187:8,

220:24, 221:11,

221:20, 239:11,

241:3, 246:16, 248:6

changed [8] - 72:4,

72:6, 72:11, 72:17,

73:9, 82:25, 114:12,

209:4

changes [20] - 55:2,

55:4, 55:10, 69:10,

69:12, 73:15, 78:15,

82:21, 82:23, 83:5,

105:23, 106:18,

124:7, 157:22,

193:15, 235:1, 235:4,

235:12, 247:15,

247:23

changing [2] -

164:25, 193:20

Chapter [21] - 8:8,

16:16, 69:17, 69:20,

75:6, 107:4, 109:4,

115:7, 115:8, 115:10,

142:5, 142:21,

142:23, 143:16,

143:17, 144:19,

145:18, 224:25,

226:24, 236:11,

239:12

chapter [24] - 30:1,

108:12, 108:18,

139:5, 139:13, 140:4,

140:5, 140:6, 140:12,

142:3, 142:18,

143:16, 144:14,

144:16, 145:2, 145:4,

223:20, 224:25,

225:2, 225:15,

226:14, 226:15,

226:21, 231:25

chapters [2] - 140:9,

226:14

character [2] -

231:16, 241:25

charged [1] - 103:4

CHARLIE [3] - 5:22,

149:20, 157:9

Charlie [1] - 157:15

chart [6] - 114:20,

114:21, 114:23,

117:5, 117:9, 118:2

charts [1] - 110:17

CHAVEZ [4] - 4:20,

88:8, 100:6, 100:12

Chavez [1] - 100:12

cheap [2] - 30:7,

90:9

cheaper [1] - 34:16

chemical [2] -

173:24, 174:2

CHERYL [1] - 250:6

Cheryl [1] - 11:20

Chicago [1] - 173:10

childhoods [1] - 89:2

chips [1] - 205:1

choice [3] - 97:14,

99:12, 240:3

choices [4] - 27:9,

29:13, 105:14, 141:6

choose [2] - 96:8,

155:21

choosing [2] - 32:18,

153:1

chose [1] - 23:7

CHRIS [3] - 6:7,

195:1, 195:8

Chris [5] - 8:15, 14:2,

194:14, 194:21, 195:8

cHRIS [1] - 194:18

chunk [1] - 204:11

Circuit [20] - 15:25,

21:25, 23:11, 26:22,

26:24, 27:1, 27:5,

27:19, 27:25, 42:24,

43:2, 43:22, 44:25,

45:5, 59:12, 64:7,

153:5, 166:17, 186:5,

243:12

circumstances [3] -

129:23, 241:24, 249:5

cited [1] - 203:21

citing [1] - 204:3

citizen [2] - 58:1,

148:12

citizens [3] - 23:9,

96:6, 153:11

City [4] - 93:20,

97:21, 156:7, 156:9

city [1] - 156:9

Civil [1] - 11:9

Clahchischilliage [1]

- 227:11

CLAHCHISCHILLIA

GE [6] - 6:16, 227:4,

227:10, 227:14,

227:15, 227:19

clan [1] - 224:21

Clan [1] - 224:22

clarification [4] -

60:20, 198:19,

236:10, 236:19

clarify [8] - 17:15,

36:25, 54:17, 64:18,

121:4, 193:19,

197:21, 200:24

clarifying [1] - 60:25

clarity [3] - 65:4,

197:23, 198:1

Class [19] - 82:13,

84:8, 84:11, 84:14,

84:22, 85:7, 85:19,

85:25, 86:2, 86:7,

115:20, 116:17,

117:2, 177:7, 177:19,

177:21, 178:7,

233:24, 233:25

class [2] - 132:19,

132:21

clauses [1] - 122:20

CLAYTON [4] - 4:16,

88:7, 92:21, 93:3

Clayton [1] - 93:2

clean [4] - 98:16,

158:5, 162:5, 244:16

Clean [17] - 7:4,

22:10, 27:11, 58:14,

58:19, 59:3, 91:6,

102:24, 126:20,

132:13, 146:13,

222:12, 230:11,

241:13, 243:20,

245:14, 245:22

cleaner [2] - 34:16,

103:2

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

7

clear [16] - 23:18,

24:23, 28:8, 44:14,

44:16, 50:1, 58:16,

166:18, 166:19,

187:19, 216:18,

217:3, 221:9, 221:12,

230:25, 237:9

clearly [4] - 232:11,

232:12, 233:8, 240:9

client [3] - 45:1,

45:2, 221:23

clients [2] - 152:14,

222:14

climate [1] - 29:2

clock [1] - 87:2

close [7] - 18:8,

41:17, 182:7, 184:18,

189:12, 238:12

closed [1] - 153:7

closely [1] - 73:14

closing [13] - 90:8,

90:17, 105:7, 130:15,

142:13, 216:24,

223:25, 229:19,

229:20, 230:3,

231:11, 238:5

closure [6] - 31:12,

108:12, 135:19,

141:21, 142:17,

151:14

closures [2] -

141:23, 144:12

clouds [1] - 191:22

Club [5] - 25:3,

146:15, 159:24,

160:19, 161:18

CMO-1 [1] - 196:14

co [1] - 13:23

co-counsel [1] -

13:23

CO2 [1] - 196:11

Coal [4] - 25:4,

96:19, 225:18, 225:21

coal [53] - 25:19,

28:22, 28:25, 29:3,

29:11, 29:20, 29:22,

29:24, 30:2, 30:4,

30:6, 30:12, 34:13,

72:25, 73:1, 74:6,

80:1, 80:4, 93:16,

95:1, 95:8, 98:17,

105:5, 111:7, 128:23,

129:16, 129:25,

141:19, 141:20,

141:23, 142:2, 144:2,

146:16, 146:20,

168:6, 168:17, 181:5,

201:15, 203:23,

205:14, 205:16,

205:20, 211:20,
213:13, 213:14,

213:16, 213:22,

219:5, 219:6, 225:17,

226:10, 233:14,

244:16

coal-fired [12] -

28:22, 28:25, 29:3,

29:24, 30:2, 30:4,

30:6, 30:12, 34:13,

105:5, 146:16, 168:17

coal-powered [1] -

141:19

Coalition [2] - 91:6,

146:13

Code [1] - 230:11

codify [1] - 112:3

cognizant [1] - 163:5

coherent [1] - 230:1

collaborate [1] -

102:7

collaborating [1] -

101:22

collaboration [1] -

102:11

collaborations [1] -

102:6

collateral [1] -

219:12

colleague [1] - 171:3

colleagues [1] -

97:20

college [4] - 96:13,

107:21, 136:1, 136:2

College [9] - 1:17,

1:18, 94:2, 94:5, 94:6,

97:9, 97:11, 108:20,

136:1

colleges [1] - 94:4

Colorado [2] - 158:1,

208:6

Columbia [1] -

153:19

column [5] - 85:22,

118:7, 170:11,

170:12, 170:14

combined [1] -

196:12

combining [1] -

105:24

combust [1] - 211:20

combusted [1] - 74:7

combustion [6] -

192:24, 203:21,

204:2, 204:12,

204:18, 211:20

comfort [2] - 50:5,

188:2

comfortable [3] -

38:4, 241:5, 248:9

coming [13] - 19:1,

41:10, 57:15, 57:17,

103:3, 105:20,

109:15, 113:25,

178:9, 179:25, 189:4,

228:23, 244:22

commend [1] -

145:11

comment [45] - 12:3,

12:25, 13:3, 14:13,

20:14, 42:3, 44:13,

44:18, 54:3, 56:16,

63:11, 65:22, 65:25,

66:10, 66:17, 75:20,

87:5, 87:13, 87:23,

100:3, 109:15,

110:15, 120:11,

122:12, 124:4,

131:10, 131:14,

131:17, 132:8,

138:25, 149:5,

149:11, 154:24,

166:12, 189:15,

193:12, 224:6,

224:10, 241:4,

242:20, 245:6, 245:7,

247:22, 248:8, 249:2

commentary [2] -

156:17, 157:4

commenters [1] -

152:23

comments [27] -

7:17, 7:19, 12:18,

12:22, 44:9, 44:10,

47:13, 63:15, 65:6,

65:13, 75:19, 76:4,

76:7, 83:10, 121:13,

145:12, 155:11,

163:23, 184:19,

188:18, 203:1, 224:9,

231:6, 239:23, 244:1,

246:7, 248:17

Commission [12] -

35:2, 41:16, 61:17,

61:24, 97:21, 154:9,

165:22, 216:8,

216:21, 217:6,

222:22, 250:22

commission [5] -

61:23, 62:12, 96:5,

204:24, 205:2

commissioner[1] -

165:23

commit [5] - 29:20,

52:22, 53:19, 191:10,

206:10

commitment [15] -

47:20, 50:2, 56:25,

98:13, 135:9, 135:16,

135:18, 137:2,

204:10, 204:23,

213:18, 217:4, 217:8,

217:15, 220:10

commitments [5] -

56:13, 142:12,

204:16, 216:20,

216:22

committed [9] -

34:12, 46:11, 47:7,

50:6, 55:12, 55:13,

56:22, 217:4, 220:24

communications [1]

- 207:19

communities [5] -

94:23, 95:13, 143:3,

225:5

community [18] -

93:5, 93:8, 93:20,

107:8, 107:10,

107:13, 140:13,

140:17, 141:5,

143:19, 143:22,

143:24, 144:4, 145:1,

160:24, 185:18, 189:1

companies [4] -

104:16, 160:10,

191:7, 208:5

Company [15] - 2:13,

2:19, 7:11, 8:12, 8:17,

8:23, 9:6, 12:9, 13:24,

16:1, 78:5, 96:19,

159:2, 162:21, 163:1

company [7] - 94:19,

160:9, 187:3, 187:8,

188:12, 210:2, 227:25

company's [3] -

95:10, 158:4, 186:18

comparable [4] -

177:10, 178:8,

178:10, 178:25

compared [7] -

73:13, 126:10,

127:17, 176:4, 178:4,

198:11, 233:5

comparing [4] -

74:16, 198:4, 234:3,

234:14

comparison [4] -

177:25, 198:14,

234:5, 234:6

compatible [1] -

135:14

competitive [1] -

191:1

competitors [1] -

191:4

compiled [1] - 83:20

complete [6] - 14:23,

25:5, 112:9, 166:23,

219:3, 237:19

completed [1] -

212:25

completely [4] -

46:13, 144:23,

192:19, 214:7

completeness [1] -

230:19

compliance [15] -

38:3, 71:5, 72:6,

96:22, 101:1, 101:3,

113:14, 168:6, 168:8,

173:17, 208:15,

210:11, 210:24,

241:15, 241:16

complicated [1] -

156:3

complies [1] -

222:11

compliment [2] -

54:5, 154:2

comply [2] - 28:15,

30:15

complying [2] -

105:17, 106:7

component [4] -

168:23, 176:9,

178:13, 201:25

components [1] -

180:17

compound [1] -

74:22

compounds [1] -

211:18

comprehends [1] -

245:9

comprehensive [1] -

212:2

comprised [2] -

133:23, 140:9

compromise [12] -

89:25, 90:1, 90:4,

90:7, 90:14, 108:3,

142:8, 144:22,

163:22, 226:17,

226:19

compromised [2] -

225:21, 225:24

conceivably [1] -

218:9

concentration [1] -

83:22

concern [14] - 64:20,

97:16, 133:1, 137:15,

152:12, 159:16,

160:14, 203:2, 204:1,

204:9, 205:24,

219:20, 220:3, 228:24

concerned [15] -

94:15, 94:16, 94:25,

105:10, 119:22,

135:1, 135:2, 135:3,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

8

141:12, 150:15,

150:23, 203:9, 206:9,

227:24, 228:9

concerning [2] -

104:23, 192:17

concerns [8] - 29:2,

127:14, 138:5, 151:6,

189:4, 222:23,

234:25, 244:25

concise [1] - 230:3

concludes [5] -

41:20, 179:8, 182:19,

184:19, 223:10

conclusion [3] -

75:9, 116:14, 137:10

condensable [1] -

125:15

condition [4] - 84:20,

84:21, 116:10, 116:12

conditions [8] - 65:8,

68:7, 68:20, 72:1,

81:8, 141:19, 141:25,

190:3

conduct [5] - 11:5,

68:24, 70:23, 187:8,

187:16

conducted [5] - 11:3,

68:3, 70:16, 71:15,

176:20

confer [1] - 219:14

conference [1] -

47:17

confidence [1] -

184:17

confirmation [2] -

48:1, 48:13

confirmed [3] -

83:18, 176:21, 221:22

conflict [1] - 186:7

conform [1] - 247:13

confuse [1] - 245:17

confused [4] - 123:2,

124:3, 126:4, 200:24

congested [1] -

181:11

congestion [2] -

181:10, 191:8

congressional [3] -

35:6, 39:2, 40:2

conjunction [1] -

171:20

connected [1] -

101:21

connection [2] -

163:5, 237:16

consent [1] - 193:3

consequences [11] -

23:1, 25:10, 26:3,

26:13, 31:9, 32:12,

32:14, 34:20, 36:11,
56:14, 206:8

consequently [1] -

198:6

conserve [1] - 25:23

consider[22] -

10:20, 15:16, 21:9,

22:2, 22:17, 22:24,

27:2, 28:2, 30:14,

30:25, 58:11, 65:7,

189:18, 189:20,

204:15, 231:16,

235:14, 235:15,

236:5, 237:2, 239:22,

243:14

considerable [1] -

220:1

considerably [1] -

72:5

consideration [6] -

95:12, 142:5, 187:23,

222:25, 236:5, 241:14

considerations [3] -

28:17, 31:4, 177:4

considered [9] -

26:24, 33:22, 73:2,

73:19, 125:21, 192:9,

198:18, 205:17, 249:5

considering [16] -

25:15, 27:8, 27:11,

27:12, 28:4, 30:20,

31:6, 44:9, 44:13,

44:18, 58:8, 58:13,

59:4, 62:6, 104:24,

178:17

consist [1] - 12:14

consistency [2] -

132:13, 176:12

consistent [4] -

42:10, 52:11, 82:11,

83:25

consists [2] - 79:12,

231:2

constant [1] - 51:23

constantly [2] -

148:7, 208:7

constituents [9] -

35:21, 140:11,

143:23, 225:8,

227:23, 227:24,

228:10, 229:6

constitutes [1] -

73:21

construct [4] -

108:8, 137:3, 182:11,

204:17

constructing [1] -

142:14

construction [10] -

26:9, 26:10, 32:2,

94:12, 121:7, 122:6,

135:15, 142:15,

181:17, 225:14

constructions [1] -

108:10

construe [1] - 193:20

consultation [2] -

101:5, 103:9

consulted [1] - 38:24

consumer[1] - 151:3

Consumers [8] - 3:2,

12:11, 12:16, 14:8,

14:11, 24:1, 152:4,

152:8

consumers [1] -

147:10

consumption [1] -

33:15

contain [1] - 121:16

contained [7] - 68:7,

71:18, 75:23, 175:12,

179:3, 234:21, 239:18

contains [6] - 12:6,

16:8, 16:9, 68:23,

69:1, 70:3

contaminants [4] -

231:20, 242:3, 242:6,

242:8

contemplating [1] -

210:11

contend [1] - 59:11

context [10] - 16:4,

16:23, 18:15, 19:15,

20:16, 51:15, 126:19,

166:16, 237:6, 248:12

contexts [1] - 28:21

contingencies [2] -

41:8, 43:11

continue [9] - 30:5,

42:25, 93:23, 102:12,

102:20, 188:6,

188:17, 200:7, 229:5

continued [1] -

132:15

Continued [6] - 3:1,

5:1, 6:1, 8:1, 8:3, 9:3

continues [2] -

29:25, 247:17

continuity [1] - 106:4

contract [4] - 187:12,

188:10, 204:10, 215:6

contractor [1] -

133:22

contractors [2] -

133:24, 225:23

contracts [2] -

187:14, 187:15

contractual [1] -

216:19

contractually [1] -

187:20

contribute [3] -

116:25, 136:23,

151:14

contributes [2] -

117:6, 117:11

contributing [4] -

108:13, 116:16,

116:22, 142:18

contribution [2] -

161:8

Contribution [1] -

201:10

Control [10] -

168:22, 174:16,

174:17, 180:11,

181:23, 189:17,

189:19, 231:12,

231:13, 241:22

control [39] - 19:23,

43:12, 70:19, 70:22,

70:23, 71:1, 71:8,

71:13, 71:20, 71:22,

71:24, 72:14, 73:5,

73:6, 74:4, 79:2,

82:13, 84:4, 84:8,

84:10, 84:14, 84:17,

85:15, 85:16, 85:21,

119:11, 119:17,

153:12, 165:20,

171:11, 171:16,

171:18, 172:10,

172:12, 197:15,

219:24, 241:17,

242:8, 245:18

controls [5] - 45:2,

164:24, 192:24,

232:16, 232:18

Convenience [1] -

217:5

convenience [1] -

230:14

conversation [1] -

185:5

conversations [1] -

243:7

conversion [1] - 99:3

converted [1] - 177:7

convinced [1] -

147:13

coordinated [1] -

175:18

coordinating [1] -

179:17

coordination [1] -

179:24

copy [7] - 11:22,

45:15, 67:23, 77:19,

82:5, 203:13, 222:20

Corners [22] - 24:13,

25:25, 26:8, 32:8,

34:9, 34:25, 96:10,

97:3, 98:12, 99:6,

101:9, 107:17,

107:18, 108:16,

135:18, 137:4, 142:1,

146:17, 151:10,

197:14, 205:8, 225:15

cornerstone [1] -

98:24

corporate [1] - 2:19

Corporation [3] -

8:21, 167:24, 171:12

corporations [1] -

152:10

correct [34] - 17:10,

37:3, 57:9, 61:18,

66:3, 76:24, 77:21,

86:7, 117:20, 119:8,

121:9, 123:10,

123:15, 124:19,

125:17, 128:14,

128:15, 131:1,

168:10, 184:18,

185:15, 191:17,

193:25, 201:6,

201:11, 201:12,

201:13, 201:18,

213:3, 216:11,

216:25, 236:15,

245:15, 248:22

correction [6] -

130:19, 170:19,

174:12, 174:18,

196:10, 196:14

Corrections [1] - 8:8

corrections [20] -

69:10, 69:12, 69:18,

75:5, 75:8, 78:15,

82:21, 169:18,

172:17, 172:20,

172:23, 174:10,

194:2, 196:3, 196:18,

208:20, 208:22,

208:23, 209:10,

239:17

correctly [1] - 118:19

corresponding [1] -

85:25

corridor[1] - 101:10

corridors [2] - 99:22,

103:10

cost [103] - 20:8,

22:24, 23:13, 28:17,

29:24, 30:5, 33:22,

34:5, 71:4, 72:6, 72:7,

89:12, 90:5, 90:10,

90:23, 101:12,

132:11, 135:5, 135:7,

136:16, 137:24,

141:14, 147:3,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

9

147:11, 148:5,

150:21, 151:2,

161:21, 170:5,

175:12, 175:19,

176:1, 176:2, 176:4,

176:6, 176:8, 178:13,

178:15, 178:20,

178:24, 179:2,

179:17, 179:24,

180:7, 180:9, 180:17,

181:3, 181:9, 181:15,

181:18, 181:19,

181:20, 181:24,

181:25, 182:1, 182:4,

182:7, 182:8, 182:13,

182:16, 182:24,

182:25, 183:3, 183:9,

183:10, 183:15,

183:17, 183:21,

184:3, 184:7, 187:1,

188:16, 188:25,

189:5, 189:7, 189:24,

190:5, 190:8, 190:9,

191:19, 191:21,

192:3, 192:4, 192:9,

192:19, 197:19,

198:9, 199:17, 208:8,

210:20, 211:8,

211:12, 212:5,

218:19, 219:1,

220:11, 233:2, 233:4,

233:5, 240:8

Cost [6] - 174:16,

174:17, 180:12,

181:23, 189:17,

189:19

cost-effective [1] -

184:7

costly [9] - 19:25,

23:8, 25:19, 99:11,

101:3, 136:20,

137:14, 141:19,

142:10

costs [32] - 30:7,

33:21, 33:24, 46:20,

47:4, 90:24, 92:4,

92:15, 102:24,

105:11, 106:8, 120:8,

147:3, 178:23,

179:18, 180:15,

182:12, 183:6, 183:7,

184:1, 188:19,

189:21, 190:12,

191:8, 197:22,

198:10, 198:12,

198:17, 198:22,

233:8, 241:15

Council [2] - 97:21,

156:9

Counsel [4] - 2:8,
2:9, 2:19, 3:3

counsel [10] - 13:11,

13:23, 14:10, 18:25,

62:20, 63:24, 152:3,

229:20, 250:13,

250:16

count [1] - 149:13

country [6] - 102:18,

141:21, 147:17,

147:19, 161:9, 206:5

counts [2] - 56:8,

245:20

County [8] - 35:2,

91:22, 97:21, 107:15,

108:9, 142:14,

150:10, 228:18

COUNTY [1] - 250:3

county [1] - 93:25

couple [20] - 12:21,

19:13, 56:1, 59:23,

63:14, 66:12, 82:23,

84:25, 89:24, 121:1,

128:9, 190:17,

199:24, 212:21,

218:1, 218:9, 220:5,

230:5, 242:18

course [16] - 15:25,

64:14, 90:20, 108:2,

145:5, 151:11, 157:6,

164:11, 165:19,

187:8, 187:16,

188:19, 203:2, 203:5,

219:20, 221:9

Court [2] - 11:21,

186:5

court [20] - 11:23,

27:5, 27:8, 27:10,

27:19, 27:25, 29:8,

41:5, 42:20, 58:13,

60:11, 64:6, 64:8,

64:9, 141:17, 159:11,

186:8, 186:12, 186:16

cover [1] - 66:21

covered [1] - 111:21

covers [2] - 15:13,

40:13

crafting [1] - 108:7

CRAWFORD [9] -

4:14, 5:14, 88:7,

88:12, 88:18, 139:16,

139:18, 146:1, 146:5

Crawford [3] - 88:18,

139:15, 146:7

create [5] - 101:23,

108:24, 111:14,

147:23, 202:19

created [6] - 28:7,

147:25, 159:2, 159:4,

167:4, 245:1

creates [1] - 109:1

creation [2] - 32:1,

136:6

credibility [1] - 11:16

cringing [1] - 187:25

criteria [1] - 189:20

critical [9] - 31:10,

32:9, 32:12, 32:18,

32:22, 145:16, 165:5,

166:8, 244:13

criticizing [1] -

190:18

CROSS [4] - 60:12,

128:11, 202:9, 215:15

cross [18] - 11:14,

11:17, 14:12, 17:17,

17:18, 59:16, 59:17,

59:22, 59:24, 60:2,

63:4, 76:23, 87:6,

110:7, 128:2, 128:6,

184:22, 194:5

Cross [4] - 4:7, 5:7,

6:9, 6:13

cross-examination

[10] - 11:14, 11:17,

14:12, 59:24, 76:23,

110:7, 128:2, 128:6,

184:22, 194:5

cross-examine [1] -

59:22

cross-examined [2]

- 17:17, 17:18

cross-examining [1]

- 63:4

crowd [2] - 147:4,

147:6

CT [1] - 217:9

culture [2] - 140:14,

144:6

cumulative [1] -

117:18

curb [1] - 241:2

curious [3] - 116:20,

127:19, 214:5

current [20] - 41:25,

42:6, 42:7, 61:4,

67:23, 77:19, 85:16,

118:21, 118:22,

118:23, 119:1, 171:9,

171:15, 173:8, 195:9,

197:15, 199:4, 199:9,

201:12, 208:11

Curriculum [1] - 7:22

customer[1] -

150:23

customers [5] -

164:8, 197:10,

197:11, 205:7, 212:5

cut [3] - 54:8, 54:15,

201:18

D

D-A-R-N-E-L-L [1] -

207:9

D-U-N-S-W-O-R-TH [1] - 157:16

d.iv [1] - 111:22

Daa [2] - 107:4,

109:4

Daily [3] - 97:19,

156:17, 157:5

daily [3] - 79:5,

80:18, 112:1

Dakota [2] - 38:11,

38:12

Dakotas [1] - 208:7

damages [1] - 129:8

damn [3] - 160:1,

160:23, 161:13

dangers [1] - 153:11

DARNELL [11] -

6:10, 194:18, 207:1,

213:2, 213:11, 214:7,

214:10, 214:19,

214:22, 219:18, 223:3

Darnell [16] - 8:11,

14:1, 194:15, 205:9,

205:11, 206:23,

206:24, 207:6, 207:8,

209:20, 212:9, 213:8,

215:17, 223:2, 232:7,

242:11

darts [2] - 155:22,

156:23

data [9] - 83:20,

83:21, 84:23, 84:24,

98:7, 118:6, 155:17,

155:21, 243:16

date [5] - 20:23,

20:25, 48:22, 173:20,

186:18

dates [3] - 48:20,

50:12, 248:23

day-by-day [1] -

48:24

day-for-day [1] -

50:1

days [12] - 81:5,

84:9, 85:6, 85:13,

93:12, 112:8, 116:3,

116:7, 118:10,

156:17, 159:19

DC [3] - 160:3,

228:21, 228:22

dead [1] - 153:21

deadline [11] - 21:10,

21:11, 45:16, 45:22,

46:1, 57:5, 57:8,

57:19, 58:7, 58:17,

187:3

deadlines [5] - 50:7,

57:20, 58:1, 166:14,

166:15

deal [9] - 19:4, 44:17,

44:18, 50:21, 57:23,

154:10, 204:3,

231:21, 240:8

deal-breaker [1] -

50:21

dealing [3] - 29:9,

44:1, 156:11

deals [1] - 54:25

dealt [2] - 156:4,

188:22

DEBORAH [1] - 2:3

decades [1] - 96:16

December [2] -

20:24, 57:5

decent [1] - 93:19

decide [1] - 29:19

decided [7] - 23:4,

25:16, 27:19, 39:10,

62:17, 159:25

decides [1] - 54:12

decision [27] - 18:13,

18:17, 21:16, 22:1,

23:8, 27:23, 29:6,

29:11, 32:18, 32:22,

39:21, 44:5, 45:7,

48:11, 55:18, 61:9,

61:21, 62:7, 62:11,

89:25, 97:25, 136:13,

191:22, 198:5,

217:13, 225:4, 243:18

decision-maker [1] -

62:7

decision-makers [1]

- 48:11

decision-making [4]

- 32:18, 39:21, 44:5,

45:7

decisions [5] -

35:20, 35:22, 62:13,

62:14, 191:20

deciview [38] - 33:5,

75:13, 75:14, 84:7,

84:9, 84:19, 85:7,

85:14, 86:10, 115:18,

115:21, 115:23,

115:25, 116:1, 116:4,

116:5, 116:8, 116:10,

116:11, 118:6, 118:9,

118:12, 124:25,

170:16, 170:17,

170:18, 177:8, 177:9,

177:12, 178:18,

178:19, 184:2, 184:4,

211:11, 233:24

deciviews [5] -

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

10

116:8, 177:22, 178:4,

178:5

declare [1] - 219:6

decline [1] - 158:14

declined [2] - 39:16,

39:18

decorum [1] - 11:11

decrease [1] - 33:15

decree [1] - 193:3

dedicated [2] -

24:14, 132:15

deems [1] - 241:23

defend [1] - 161:17

defense [1] - 52:18

defer [3] - 62:19,

139:6, 205:11

defining [1] - 54:13

definite [2] - 114:10

definitely [4] - 53:24,

101:15, 217:13,

229:11

definition [1] -

177:11

definitions [2] -

54:18, 177:24

definitively [2] -

52:22, 53:20

defray [1] - 26:13

degradation [1] -

129:11

degree [12] - 67:18,

77:15, 77:16, 168:15,

172:7, 173:24, 174:1,

195:21, 201:23,

231:17, 241:19,

241:25

delay [1] - 48:23

delaying [1] - 28:11

delays [2] - 166:20,

167:3

delegation [1] - 40:2

delete [1] - 169:25

deleted [1] - 209:2

deliberations [5] -

54:11, 238:19,

238:21, 239:8

delicate [2] - 164:4,

164:18

Delta [1] - 196:7

demand [2] - 98:23,

99:25

demonstrate [3] -

80:4, 85:8, 113:14

demonstrated [3] -

36:15, 111:25, 186:19

demonstrates [2] -

145:9, 233:3

demonstration [2] -

111:25, 234:11

Denver [1] - 160:6
depart [2] - 66:7,

200:17

department [1] -

226:2

Department [63] -

2:7, 2:9, 10:25, 13:11,

13:13, 16:1, 18:12,

18:23, 21:7, 21:24,

22:22, 26:21, 26:24,

32:20, 39:12, 41:14,

42:18, 44:2, 44:20,

44:22, 44:23, 54:6,

54:14, 58:15, 60:22,

62:9, 62:20, 67:15,

68:5, 68:6, 68:8,

69:25, 71:14, 72:2,

73:18, 75:18, 75:20,

78:6, 113:20, 120:5,

120:15, 121:7, 128:3,

130:5, 148:2, 152:25,

163:20, 186:24,

202:5, 222:11,

231:24, 232:17,

237:16, 237:21,

238:1, 239:10,

239:14, 240:19,

240:25, 244:21,

246:6, 246:22, 247:10

Department's [6] -

12:7, 75:12, 76:3,

83:10, 120:12, 210:16

depressed [1] -

98:21

derived [1] - 140:14

describe [15] - 67:16,

68:17, 70:13, 71:14,

77:13, 78:21, 78:24,

79:11, 80:25, 81:25,

84:13, 129:2, 168:1,

179:11, 211:9

described [3] -

71:17, 175:22, 180:8

description [4] -

70:4, 80:21, 171:14,

197:14

design [3] - 180:15,

180:20, 189:20

designate [3] -

13:12, 16:23, 18:22

designated [1] -

10:18

designed [1] - 58:20

designee [1] -

152:24

detail [8] - 26:18,

52:9, 70:1, 78:22,

129:2, 169:21,

175:24, 237:1

detailed [4] - 70:3,

169:25, 180:7, 209:11

details [2] - 68:19,

130:6

detect [1] - 49:15

detectible [2] - 89:6,

89:14

DETERMINATION

[1] - 1:6

Determination [1] -

239:15

determination [31] -

10:4, 10:23, 14:25,

15:9, 15:11, 15:18,

15:22, 15:23, 16:3,

16:10, 16:11, 16:19,

68:1, 70:10, 70:24,

71:25, 75:12, 77:23,

81:1, 82:9, 112:19,

117:22, 118:21,

127:4, 185:13,

232:14, 234:12,

234:13, 234:14,

234:16, 245:10

determinations [2] -

189:9, 241:14

determine [10] -

34:11, 68:24, 71:4,

80:3, 80:13, 83:16,

84:7, 84:9, 154:9,

165:11

determined [5] -

13:2, 19:18, 84:2,

113:18, 129:7

determines [2] -

71:11, 80:15

determining [6] -

30:14, 31:4, 64:4,

73:19, 75:10, 77:24

detriment [1] - 88:24

detrimental [1] -

205:25

devastating [3] -

23:1, 46:19, 134:4

develop [1] - 22:10

developed [7] -

106:5, 137:13,

175:14, 182:25,

189:25, 193:2, 237:23

developing [4] -

24:10, 83:11, 175:23,

179:16

development [8] -

25:25, 26:7, 97:5,

135:11, 135:18,

140:16, 168:5, 175:22

Development [3] -

32:8, 34:25, 186:24

Deviation [1] -

174:17

devices [1] - 219:25

devise [1] - 23:23

diabasic [2] -

199:12, 199:16

dialogue [1] - 23:11

Diana [2] - 150:6,

150:9

DIANA [3] - 5:16,

149:19, 150:1

DIANE [4] - 6:4,

167:8, 167:12, 171:6

Diane [4] - 8:21,

14:6, 171:6, 179:21

dice [1] - 92:12

dictate [1] - 90:13

diesel [1] - 74:9

difference [19] -

33:6, 35:19, 53:11,

86:8, 113:4, 113:6,

113:8, 124:25, 125:2,

125:3, 125:12,

177:21, 189:5,

190:11, 191:16,

191:21, 206:7, 211:6,

233:24

differences [4] -

125:4, 184:12, 220:7,

233:2

different [34] - 15:21,

24:11, 25:1, 29:1,

38:14, 44:3, 48:8,

52:6, 53:3, 53:10,

82:23, 120:15, 122:1,

122:3, 125:7, 126:20,

145:15, 154:19,

156:4, 156:5, 156:12,

182:11, 193:10,

200:13, 204:20,

206:6, 208:13,

234:14, 236:3,

245:21, 245:23

different-looking [1]

- 52:6

difficult [24] - 21:14,

25:11, 26:16, 26:19,

32:11, 35:5, 45:2,

46:9, 50:9, 54:20,

59:10, 60:24, 97:14,

122:11, 129:20,

144:10, 155:14,

155:20, 156:22,

164:3, 181:16,

220:14, 229:25,

235:15

difficulties [1] - 35:3

difficulty [2] - 60:22,

97:24

diligently [1] -

106:14

dioxide [6] - 15:13,

33:13, 124:2, 136:22,

211:16, 211:19

diplomatic [1] -

57:11

dire [1] - 36:10

DIRECT [24] - 18:4,

67:7, 77:4, 81:16,

88:15, 92:24, 95:20,

100:9, 104:6, 106:24,

131:22, 139:23,

143:8, 146:4, 150:4,

151:24, 155:4,

157:12, 158:20,

167:15, 195:4, 207:4,

224:14, 227:7

Direct [14] - 4:5,

4:15, 4:17, 4:23, 4:25,

5:9, 5:11, 5:19, 5:23,

5:25, 6:15, 8:10, 8:15,

9:4

direct [21] - 4:9,

4:11, 4:13, 4:19, 4:21,

5:13, 5:15, 5:17, 5:21,

6:5, 6:8, 6:11, 6:17,

148:25, 153:2,

162:15, 169:15,

171:21, 174:7,

195:24, 208:16

direction [5] -

106:18, 156:15,

156:24, 195:14, 203:7

directives [1] - 153:2

directly [5] - 11:22,

56:19, 134:5, 152:15,

181:2

director[2] - 48:10,

104:13

disadvantage [2] -

21:22

disappointed [4] -

240:13, 240:14,

244:5, 244:7

disappointment [1] -

243:1

disapproving [1] -

64:5

discernible [1] -

211:7

disconcerting [1] -

59:10

discrete [1] - 24:15

discretion [4] - 22:9,

22:13, 247:12

discuss [1] - 24:19

discussed [4] -

144:17, 175:15,

179:5, 222:1

discussing [1] -

24:15

Discussion [3] -

138:23, 149:18,

219:17

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

11

discussion [13] -

23:3, 49:17, 52:8,

107:25, 121:11,

121:12, 141:22,

166:14, 197:18,

214:13, 239:4, 247:1,

249:9

discussions [13] -

18:16, 23:24, 24:6,

24:22, 24:23, 33:23,

39:17, 42:22, 47:7,

56:21, 140:19, 142:4,

226:21

dismiss [6] - 42:19,

43:1, 43:3, 43:22,

44:24, 45:9

dispersion [5] -

83:16, 168:8, 168:25,

173:17, 175:9

displeasure [1] -

91:7

disposal [2] - 72:23,

74:13

disposed [1] -

232:15

dispute [4] - 25:1,

28:21, 30:1, 222:3

disputes [1] - 48:5

disrespect [1] -

160:14

distinction [1] -

234:7

distributed [1] -

12:19

distribution [2] -

208:14, 209:24

district [2] - 227:22,

229:12

District [8] - 140:8,

153:18, 189:24,

190:2, 190:10,

190:12, 227:22,

227:24

disturbance [1] -

99:20

disturbs [1] - 188:21

divergence [1] -

97:18

divergent [1] - 25:14

diverse [2] - 212:3,

213:15

diversify [2] - 34:15,

213:16

divide [1] - 183:11

divides [1] - 184:1

docketed [1] - 10:25

document [19] -

51:17, 51:19, 51:21,

52:6, 52:8, 54:6, 54:7,

54:9, 55:3, 55:8,
55:10, 55:23, 64:20,

69:23, 76:5, 83:11,

175:14, 175:18, 188:2

documentation [1] -

119:24

documents [2] -

70:5, 176:19

DOJ [3] - 44:24,

45:5, 45:11

dollar [4] - 176:2,

178:14, 178:18

dollars [16] - 89:21,

151:15, 161:17,

170:16, 170:17,

183:12, 183:19,

183:21, 184:3,

189:13, 201:3, 201:4,

201:6, 201:12

Dolores [1] - 158:1

Domingo [1] -

100:13

done [24] - 27:21,

36:1, 43:16, 50:25,

51:13, 52:3, 114:13,

118:14, 120:12,

125:9, 125:10,

125:13, 125:16,

127:2, 154:7, 158:7,

160:5, 163:14,

172:10, 204:3,

218:18, 238:8, 242:21

DONG [5] - 4:12, 5:5,

17:13, 81:13, 110:2

Dong [7] - 8:4, 8:5,

13:14, 33:3, 73:10,

76:8, 81:20

Donna [1] - 146:7

DONNA [3] - 5:14,

139:18, 146:1

doubled [1] - 190:10

doubt [4] - 56:24,

105:20, 148:18,

163:23

down [47] - 25:13,

28:1, 40:18, 48:16,

53:7, 87:15, 87:22,

87:25, 88:11, 90:8,

90:17, 105:5, 119:6,

119:11, 128:20,

129:3, 138:10,

138:12, 138:17,

138:18, 147:20,

149:15, 149:17,

153:2, 154:1, 156:13,

159:13, 160:2, 161:1,

161:18, 191:9, 192:7,

192:18, 196:7, 199:8,

201:17, 204:5, 208:8,

214:3, 214:18, 215:6,

220:5, 224:8, 225:11,

232:9, 232:25

downstream [1] -

159:16

downturn [1] - 98:19

Dr [14] - 9:5, 14:4,

110:14, 124:24,

127:6, 127:11, 173:2,

173:3, 175:20, 180:2,

182:20, 184:14,

233:20, 242:14

draft [7] - 47:12,

110:21, 121:13,

231:3, 231:8, 234:21,

236:12

drafted [3] - 43:8,

76:6, 76:8

drafts [2] - 52:4,

239:17

draw [2] - 131:6,

183:24

drawed [1] - 159:5

drill [1] - 96:1

drilled [1] - 99:7

drilling [3] - 160:9,

160:10, 160:18

Drive [1] - 2:10

drive [2] - 159:20

driven [3] - 23:18,

29:1, 36:18

driving [1] - 18:11

drop [1] - 211:25

due [8] - 20:19,

20:23, 38:19, 38:20,

48:23, 142:5, 236:6,

245:18

dues [1] - 93:13

duly [33] - 17:13,

18:2, 67:5, 77:2,

81:14, 88:8, 88:13,

92:22, 95:18, 100:7,

104:1, 104:4, 106:22,

110:3, 131:20,

139:19, 139:21,

143:6, 146:2, 149:20,

150:2, 151:22, 155:2,

157:10, 158:18,

167:9, 167:13,

194:18, 195:2, 207:2,

224:12, 227:5, 250:9

dump [1] - 159:18

dumped [1] - 159:12

Dunsworth [1] -

157:15

DUNSWORTH [4] -

5:22, 149:20, 157:9,

157:15

duplicate [1] -

169:25

Durango [1] - 160:7

duration [1] - 66:2

during [15] - 33:22,

48:1, 48:13, 52:4,

54:11, 63:25, 77:24,

121:3, 133:21,

165:24, 228:17,

240:20, 242:10,

243:15, 245:17

dust [1] - 91:12

duties [6] - 168:2,

171:14, 173:13,

195:13, 207:15,

207:16

duty [2] - 173:19,

231:13

E

E-mail [1] - 12:18

early [2] - 47:16,

157:23

earned [2] - 93:24,

144:4

earners [1] - 93:25

Earth [1] - 103:5

easier [1] - 87:14

easily [1] - 90:21

easy [2] - 36:3, 145:1

echo [1] - 64:19

Economic [3] - 32:8,

34:25, 186:24

economic [41] -

24:16, 25:24, 26:3,

26:7, 26:13, 31:9,

34:8, 34:19, 36:11,

40:6, 40:9, 96:9, 97:5,

107:14, 108:15,

109:1, 132:17, 133:5,

134:25, 135:11,

135:17, 136:11,

137:20, 140:16,

141:13, 141:18,

141:22, 141:25,

144:10, 145:7, 151:6,

153:18, 153:20,

197:13, 204:16,

231:19, 242:2, 242:5,

242:12, 242:24, 244:7

economical [1] -

242:4

economically [4] -

98:19, 101:8, 245:24

economics [2] -

164:25, 244:24

economizer[1] -

181:12

economy [14] - 97:3,

97:16, 103:14, 136:6,

136:19, 141:7,

141:12, 145:7, 145:8,

147:17, 147:19,

153:15, 225:5

Economy [2] - 91:5,

146:13

ED [1] - 187:12

educate [1] - 145:14

education [3] - 94:7,

108:22, 140:15

educational [9] -

67:16, 77:13, 81:25,

97:8, 168:13, 172:4,

173:22, 195:18,

207:24

effect [11] - 30:19,

31:2, 31:8, 37:2,

43:24, 75:8, 148:19,

151:1, 225:11, 237:7,

247:17

effective [11] - 37:7,

112:13, 112:18,

112:22, 176:4, 176:7,

178:15, 184:3, 184:7,

199:14, 212:2

effectively [2] -

72:14, 199:13

effectiveness [15] -

70:24, 71:24, 132:12,

170:6, 176:2, 176:8,

178:13, 178:20,

178:24, 179:2, 183:1,

183:4, 183:16,

183:17, 209:1

effects [3] - 126:22,

206:1, 206:3

effectuate [1] -

218:10

efficacy [3] - 165:1,

166:6, 199:11

efficient [3] - 90:16,

90:22, 194:17

effort [7] - 35:17,

39:2, 39:23, 54:22,

55:8, 152:11, 154:22

efforts [5] - 94:14,

132:15, 163:10,

169:5, 235:19

EIB [9] - 1:3, 10:2,

11:1, 106:13, 110:6,

133:9, 162:20,

182:17, 238:21

eight [1] - 168:18

eighth [3] - 116:2,

116:3, 116:6

either [11] - 20:25,

27:9, 38:4, 92:18,

112:7, 129:20,

164:13, 178:15,

179:6, 192:16, 204:10

El [1] - 91:21

elaborate [1] - 19:10

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

12

electric [8] - 88:24,

91:11, 105:5, 151:3,

152:13, 156:8,

158:11, 209:23

electrical [1] - 34:13

electricity [17] - 29:3,

29:25, 30:12, 40:13,

89:1, 90:10, 90:16,

90:22, 92:15, 137:1,

146:22, 147:2, 147:5,

147:10, 152:9,

152:13, 197:10

elegantly [1] - 58:19

elements [3] - 15:14,

106:9, 240:9

elevation [1] - 190:5

eligible [1] - 215:2

eliminate [2] - 70:21,

246:3

eliminating [1] -

242:5

elimination [2] -

71:21, 245:19

ELIZABETH [5] - 4:8,

5:4, 17:12, 67:4,

110:2

Elizabeth [3] - 7:23,

7:25, 67:11

elsewhere [1] -

117:25

embarrassing [1] -

209:5

embodied [1] - 90:1

emission [31] -

68:25, 69:2, 79:2,

79:4, 79:9, 80:14,

80:16, 80:18, 111:25,

112:12, 112:20,

113:7, 113:9, 119:1,

121:8, 122:6, 124:2,

124:15, 124:17,

125:13, 136:17,

136:21, 136:22,

136:23, 136:25,

145:10, 164:24,

175:12, 199:2, 210:14

emissions [33] -

29:3, 72:3, 72:21,

72:23, 73:23, 74:1,

74:10, 74:22, 74:25,

75:1, 75:3, 79:17,

79:20, 79:25, 80:5,

89:11, 90:21, 91:2,

113:3, 120:8, 124:8,

126:10, 127:16,

159:9, 165:15, 176:3,

196:11, 196:12,

197:15, 199:4,

211:16, 211:22, 246:3

emit [1] - 126:10
emotional [1] -

155:20

emphasis [1] - 208:2

emphasize [6] -

21:5, 22:5, 54:22,

85:23, 164:17, 234:3

emphasized [3] -

19:14, 27:16, 58:6

emphasizes [1] -

32:10

employed [18] -

67:12, 77:9, 77:10,

77:11, 81:21, 102:20,

173:9, 195:11,

207:10, 207:12,

214:14, 214:15,

215:1, 225:25,

227:23, 227:25,

250:13, 250:16

employee [5] -

150:10, 151:5,

151:11, 226:16,

250:15

employees [6] -

108:11, 133:15,

133:23, 142:17,

215:1, 215:6

employers [2] -

133:14, 225:18

employment [5] -

167:22, 171:9, 173:8,

195:10, 226:6

encompass [1] -

137:15

encompassing [1] -

168:5

encourage [6] -

49:20, 54:24, 55:2,

56:18, 65:8, 102:12

encroachment [1] -

23:6

end [10] - 53:7, 54:4,

88:10, 94:24, 100:16,

103:11, 122:5,

154:14, 188:8, 188:11

ended [1] - 107:21

endorse [2] - 98:2,

98:22

endorsed [3] - 24:25,

35:7, 48:14

endorses [2] - 100:2,

100:23

endorsing [1] - 39:3

energy [15] - 34:8,

34:15, 34:16, 71:5,

72:11, 72:13, 95:1,

103:11, 103:14,

108:23, 147:23,

158:11, 213:10,

233:10, 241:15

Energy [15] - 3:2,

12:11, 12:16, 14:8,

14:11, 24:1, 91:5,

91:6, 146:13, 146:14,

148:2, 152:4, 152:8,

208:4

enforceability [1] -

124:21

enforceable [4] -

65:5, 81:8, 124:10,

124:17

engage [5] - 14:12,

28:3, 43:18, 44:7,

52:25

engaged [3] - 23:24,

47:16, 220:6

engaging [1] - 24:20

engineer[5] - 77:18,

100:22, 169:8,

182:10, 195:23

engineering [12] -

77:17, 82:3, 169:4,

171:18, 172:7,

172:13, 173:25,

174:2, 174:5, 179:21,

184:13, 195:21

engineers [2] - 94:9,

173:15

enhance [1] - 199:11

enjoy [1] - 94:21

enjoyed [1] - 34:21

enjoying [1] - 143:25

ensure [9] - 31:11,

36:17, 47:21, 50:7,

51:24, 129:10, 141:6,

144:14, 226:13

ensures [1] - 26:5

ensuring [1] - 24:20

entail [3] - 25:12,

25:18, 129:5

enter [1] - 56:10

entered [5] - 26:2,

26:12, 46:4, 52:12,

56:20

entertain [1] - 221:24

entire [3] - 47:4,

166:6, 200:11

entirely [1] - 213:3

entirety [1] - 15:6

entities [1] - 152:10

entitled [2] - 1:15,

53:15

entity [4] - 29:5,

140:10, 143:22, 225:6

entrance [1] - 86:20

entries [1] - 13:16

entry [2] - 12:12,

12:15

Environment [25] -

2:7, 2:9, 10:25, 13:11,

18:12, 18:22, 21:7,

21:24, 22:22, 26:21,

32:20, 39:11, 41:14,

42:18, 44:2, 68:8,

78:6, 113:20, 130:5,

152:24, 163:20,

202:5, 210:15,

231:24, 239:14

environment [6] -

88:22, 141:7, 148:20,

158:6, 160:23, 240:21

environmental [47] -

24:3, 24:4, 24:5,

24:17, 25:2, 25:4,

32:21, 33:10, 33:17,

34:7, 35:10, 35:11,

35:12, 35:14, 48:4,

67:19, 71:7, 72:16,

82:3, 92:4, 97:16,

99:9, 99:19, 100:20,

101:1, 105:25,

132:16, 136:11,

136:15, 141:20,

141:25, 145:9,

150:15, 160:5,

164:12, 168:4,

173:11, 173:17,

179:4, 192:20,

210:23, 211:13,

241:16, 242:23,

244:25, 245:16

ENVIRONMENTAL

[1] - 1:1

Environmental [9] -

1:16, 2:2, 7:9, 10:18,

78:5, 81:3, 89:19,

104:25, 105:4

environmentalist [1]

- 103:4

envisioned [1] -

235:21

EPA [163] - 15:5,

15:11, 15:20, 16:1,

19:18, 20:1, 20:3,

20:13, 20:17, 21:24,

22:5, 22:15, 22:23,

23:2, 23:5, 23:8,

23:11, 23:15, 23:18,

27:5, 27:11, 27:15,

27:21, 28:1, 28:3,

28:6, 28:12, 29:16,

31:15, 34:11, 35:9,

36:4, 36:16, 36:17,

37:25, 38:3, 38:8,

38:10, 38:12, 38:13,

39:9, 39:13, 39:15,

41:23, 42:3, 42:6,

42:9, 42:15, 42:19,

43:1, 43:8, 43:12,

44:6, 44:8, 44:23,

44:25, 45:9, 45:12,

46:3, 46:4, 46:11,

46:14, 47:6, 47:12,

47:15, 47:19, 47:21,

47:25, 48:16, 49:24,

50:4, 52:1, 52:10,

52:12, 52:14, 52:18,

53:23, 55:10, 55:15,

55:16, 55:23, 56:20,

57:6, 57:14, 57:18,

57:20, 57:24, 57:25,

58:6, 58:15, 58:17,

59:1, 64:4, 64:11,

64:12, 64:14, 68:9,

70:12, 81:7, 83:19,

83:20, 84:6, 90:2,

90:3, 90:13, 92:12,

98:8, 105:6, 105:16,

106:5, 106:15,

113:19, 114:15,

121:9, 121:12,

121:22, 121:24,

122:4, 122:11, 125:6,

127:22, 132:16,

133:9, 135:3, 135:8,

136:5, 141:1, 147:16,

153:2, 153:6, 164:22,

166:15, 175:21,

176:22, 177:11,

177:23, 178:10,

186:22, 187:10,

187:20, 188:22,

190:17, 191:2,

191:12, 192:12,

214:2, 218:3, 218:8,

218:14, 219:5,

221:18, 222:10,

231:6, 232:10,

232:17, 240:14,

240:19, 243:2, 243:5,

243:12

EPA's [21] - 20:5,

20:14, 22:1, 22:2,

22:16, 25:20, 27:2,

32:15, 48:23, 51:20,

73:14, 141:17,

170:12, 176:12,

176:13, 180:12,

180:18, 182:5, 189:6,

218:24, 242:23

EPA-approved [1] -

83:19

EPA-mandated [1] -

29:16

EPA-recommended

[1] - 84:6

EPC [2] - 184:15,

190:24

equal [1] - 177:19

equally [1] - 26:1

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

13

equations [4] -

189:24, 190:1, 190:2

equipment [5] -

72:14, 197:16, 199:9,

199:12, 242:7

Ernie [1] - 238:8

eroding [1] - 132:21

erred [1] - 28:1

errors [9] - 69:20,

69:21, 69:23, 70:2,

70:4, 75:12, 193:23,

194:1, 239:18

ESP [2] - 181:13,

181:14

especially [6] -

94:25, 109:2, 109:14,

150:15, 150:18, 226:8

essentially [1] -

122:15

establish [1] -

202:17

established [4] -

20:4, 80:19, 89:13,

114:11

estimate [7] - 90:23,

135:8, 180:7, 180:9,

190:19, 191:14

estimated [4] -

119:6, 120:7, 135:7,

151:2

estimates [9] - 72:7,

179:18, 182:13,

182:16, 182:24,

184:10, 189:5, 191:16

estimating [3] -

70:24, 120:7, 218:25

et [2] - 56:6, 59:18

evaluate [3] - 20:20,

82:12, 84:4

evaluating [2] - 24:9,

192:10

evaluation [6] -

80:11, 80:13, 80:15,

84:12, 114:13, 239:13

evangelistic [1] -

89:18

evangelists [3] -

88:22, 91:4, 91:5

eventually [6] -

11:23, 20:13, 28:14,

29:8, 42:2, 135:13

EVERETT [3] - 4:20,

88:8, 100:6

Everett [1] - 100:12

everywhere [1] -

155:22

evidence [13] -

86:25, 98:7, 174:24,

175:2, 196:23, 197:1,

204:25, 209:15,
209:18, 223:10,

230:23, 235:21, 241:7

Evidence [1] - 11:10

evil [1] - 89:17

evolution [1] - 193:4

exact [3] - 48:7,

204:3, 247:19

exactly [9] - 33:1,

35:25, 48:6, 49:4,

58:24, 62:20, 161:25,

162:2, 229:3

EXAMINATION [14] -

36:21, 60:12, 67:7,

77:4, 81:16, 110:11,

128:11, 167:15,

185:1, 195:4, 202:9,

207:4, 212:12, 215:15

Examination [13] -

4:6, 4:7, 4:9, 4:11,

4:13, 5:7, 6:5, 6:6,

6:8, 6:9, 6:11, 6:12,

6:13

examination [11] -

5:6, 11:14, 11:17,

14:12, 59:24, 76:23,

110:7, 128:2, 128:6,

184:22, 194:5

examine [1] - 59:22

examined [29] -

17:17, 17:18, 18:3,

67:6, 77:3, 81:15,

88:14, 92:23, 95:19,

100:8, 104:5, 106:23,

110:4, 131:21,

139:22, 143:7, 146:3,

150:3, 151:23,

154:16, 155:3,

157:11, 158:19,

167:14, 195:3, 207:3,

224:13, 227:6

examiner [1] -

130:10

Examiner [5] - 14:9,

60:17, 62:24, 66:4,

162:23

examining [4] - 63:4,

130:20, 218:22,

218:23

example [3] - 48:3,

52:14, 156:7

exceeding [3] - 84:9,

85:6, 85:14

excellent [2] -

102:23, 243:23

except [3] - 76:7,

158:13, 168:23

exceptions [1] -

122:21

exchanged [1] - 52:5

exclusively [1] -

61:16

excuse [11] - 15:7,

71:7, 72:25, 80:17,

112:8, 112:10,

123:12, 123:13,

160:16, 161:6, 161:10

execute [2] - 43:13,

171:18

executive [1] -

104:13

exercise [3] - 54:24,

124:5, 164:19

exercising [1] -

58:17

exhausted [2] -

229:4, 229:5

Exhibit [32] - 67:22,

68:11, 68:14, 69:8,

69:14, 70:3, 75:7,

75:24, 76:3, 76:14,

77:20, 78:13, 78:18,

82:5, 82:19, 83:6,

83:9, 86:17, 169:16,

171:22, 174:8, 183:2,

183:13, 196:1,

196:14, 196:23,

197:1, 208:18,

209:15, 209:18,

239:19

exhibit [2] - 69:25,

70:6

Exhibits [8] - 86:15,

86:24, 174:23, 175:2,

230:8, 230:10,

230:20, 230:22

exhibits [6] - 8:14,

8:19, 8:24, 9:9, 86:20,

230:12

existence [1] -

158:14

existing [9] - 25:24,

99:4, 99:8, 99:22,

225:1, 225:11,

232:16, 232:18,

241:16

expect [2] - 158:10,

215:7

expectations [1] -

200:13

expected [5] - 27:25,

70:25, 71:12, 220:20,

220:22

expensive [4] - 34:1,

134:20, 135:6, 141:16

experience [7] -

168:14, 172:5,

173:23, 174:4,

207:25, 218:7, 242:7

experienced [1] -

97:9

expert [1] - 169:11

expertise [1] - 236:3

experts [3] - 24:7,

160:19, 219:10

Expires [2] - 250:20,

250:22

explain [4] - 26:17,

114:23, 197:12,

207:14

explained [3] - 28:7,

184:12, 190:13

explaining [1] -

120:17

explicit [1] - 222:15

exposure [1] -

213:14

express [3] - 104:20,

144:19, 222:14

expressed [1] - 91:7

extend [2] - 73:5,

229:8

extended [1] -

220:21

extends [3] - 48:22,

144:7, 144:8

extension [1] - 48:25

extensions [2] -

48:25, 50:2

extensive [1] - 23:24

extent [2] - 129:19,

166:24

extra [1] - 194:22

extreme [3] - 88:24,

164:18, 164:19

extremely [4] -

36:14, 57:21, 141:11,

181:11

eye [4] - 33:7, 75:15,

177:13, 211:7

F

F-I-S-C-H-E-R [1] -

171:7

face [3] - 43:2, 220:3,

243:8

faced [3] - 29:4,

97:13, 141:24

faces [1] - 14:5

facilitate [1] - 32:1

facilities [3] - 30:4,

189:2, 195:15

facility [8] - 74:3,

84:17, 116:18, 117:1,

124:12, 178:22,

200:12, 246:2

facility's [2] - 118:23,

119:1

facility-wide [2] -

84:17, 178:22

facing [4] - 29:9,

35:3, 144:11

fact [23] - 22:7, 26:1,

27:14, 29:24, 29:25,

30:8, 31:6, 43:9, 46:2,

53:14, 57:18, 59:10,

91:21, 147:18,

147:24, 163:6,

186:21, 211:6, 215:3,

225:13, 230:9,

233:25, 235:20

factor [14] - 30:8,

73:2, 85:14, 113:13,

113:15, 113:16,

147:4, 165:12,

181:18, 183:8, 190:7,

232:23, 233:10,

237:23

factored [1] - 189:10

factors [17] - 26:23,

29:1, 30:13, 32:22,

175:22, 176:10,

190:4, 190:9, 190:11,

190:21, 232:9,

232:11, 232:15,

232:25, 233:3, 237:2,

245:16

facts [4] - 241:24,

247:23, 248:22, 249:5

failed [1] - 28:1

failing [1] - 22:23

failure [7] - 21:3,

21:12, 21:20, 27:2,

58:6, 58:16, 187:6

fair [10] - 46:14,

62:23, 128:25, 138:9,

138:11, 190:18,

202:21, 214:24,

217:20, 217:21

fairly [2] - 96:18,

199:25

fairy [1] - 91:12

faith [10] - 46:4, 46:9,

47:6, 55:15, 56:21,

64:11, 186:19, 188:4,

188:6, 243:6

fall [3] - 55:6, 101:14,

205:1

falls [1] - 47:2

familiar [4] - 14:5,

38:5, 62:2, 215:24

familiarity [1] - 241:5

familiarize [1] -

215:24

families [3] - 144:5,

153:23, 226:8

family [10] - 93:18,

102:19, 144:3, 144:7,

144:9, 155:25, 163:8,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

14

226:8, 228:1

far [15] - 19:24, 20:8,

37:25, 38:8, 62:21,

75:15, 102:16,

102:18, 150:14,

160:3, 163:25,

197:19, 210:20,

243:17, 246:17

farm [1] - 91:22

farmed [1] - 107:9

farmers [1] - 107:11

farming [1] - 107:8

Farmington [10] -

1:18, 24:12, 93:21,

96:16, 97:21, 143:14,

156:7, 157:7, 213:18,

224:25

fashion [1] - 37:15

favor [8] - 58:25,

150:11, 151:18,

228:11, 239:5, 240:2,

247:2, 249:10

Fe [5] - 2:11, 3:4,

100:15, 148:7, 148:12

fearful [1] - 55:22

feasible [1] - 245:25

feasibly [1] - 201:18

feature [1] - 164:11

federal [67] - 15:20,

22:25, 23:8, 23:17,

27:3, 27:9, 27:12,

28:1, 28:9, 28:12,

28:14, 29:6, 29:9,

30:15, 30:19, 31:1,

31:7, 33:6, 33:9, 34:1,

34:5, 34:12, 37:13,

37:18, 37:19, 37:22,

41:24, 42:5, 42:20,

43:18, 45:6, 46:16,

46:21, 46:23, 47:9,

59:4, 89:11, 90:21,

97:15, 98:6, 101:6,

102:8, 127:15,

134:13, 134:19,

134:23, 136:20,

137:14, 137:19,

141:17, 150:14,

150:25, 153:11,

164:14, 210:11,

210:21, 210:23,

211:12, 211:21,

211:24, 240:4, 240:5,

240:11, 244:14,

244:17, 244:23

Federal [12] - 20:3,

20:12, 21:2, 73:14,

77:25, 141:1, 141:9,

141:11, 141:15,

166:17, 230:11,

243:13
feed [2] - 99:21,

134:9

feelings [2] - 25:1,

50:18

feet [2] - 107:19,

180:25

felt [5] - 22:15,

22:24, 101:9, 243:5,

243:10

FERC [2] - 62:4,

166:4

few [12] - 14:19,

36:24, 60:8, 60:20,

60:25, 156:17, 160:4,

163:1, 169:20, 206:5,

215:14, 219:22

field [1] - 97:8

fields [2] - 145:15,

226:10

fifth [3] - 71:10, 73:8,

176:9

fight [5] - 22:4, 23:5,

30:2, 159:11, 160:1

fighting [2] - 27:18,

245:2

Figure [4] - 84:18,

85:8, 85:16, 85:17

figure [7] - 23:11,

32:13, 36:8, 84:21,

85:6, 85:8, 196:12

Figures [1] - 110:19

file [2] - 12:6, 217:9

Filed [1] - 8:20

filed [21] - 10:24,

12:12, 12:13, 21:23,

22:20, 22:23, 23:2,

38:8, 38:22, 39:13,

42:19, 166:22,

166:23, 174:7,

174:24, 176:19,

186:5, 186:11,

186:15, 208:17,

248:25

files [3] - 176:14,

176:20, 176:24

filing [5] - 14:13,

40:21, 172:1, 217:4,

244:22

filings [1] - 163:18

filling [2] - 248:23,

248:25

filmed [1] - 216:17

final [6] - 81:11,

112:20, 122:22,

166:12, 220:25,

234:22

finally [2] - 76:9,

209:5

financially [1] -

250:16

findings [1] - 73:18

fine [5] - 121:21,

149:8, 197:25,

202:16, 222:7

finger[2] - 36:4,

57:18

fingers [1] - 166:25

finish [2] - 35:16,

211:15

FIP [29] - 15:21,

94:15, 164:9, 170:12,

176:5, 176:13,

176:15, 176:19,

176:21, 177:1,

177:15, 177:20,

178:8, 178:11,

178:21, 179:1, 179:6,

180:18, 182:5, 184:4,

190:17, 192:4, 198:6,

211:5, 220:11, 234:4,

234:16, 242:23,

244:23

fired [16] - 28:22,

28:25, 29:3, 29:24,

30:2, 30:4, 30:6,

30:12, 34:13, 61:4,

90:18, 90:24, 105:5,

146:16, 168:6, 168:17

firmer [1] - 50:2

first [66] - 17:7, 18:2,

18:21, 26:20, 36:16,

38:7, 41:10, 49:8,

49:9, 49:13, 60:1,

63:18, 67:2, 67:5,

77:2, 79:14, 81:14,

83:15, 88:13, 89:10,

92:22, 95:18, 96:4,

98:5, 100:7, 102:6,

104:4, 106:22, 110:3,

119:25, 121:2,

131:14, 131:20,

133:7, 139:21, 143:6,

146:2, 150:2, 151:22,

155:2, 157:10,

158:18, 160:1, 163:3,

165:5, 166:9, 167:11,

167:13, 175:4,

176:17, 180:18,

195:2, 196:11,

199:25, 207:2,

210:18, 213:11,

215:19, 222:8,

223:24, 224:12,

224:22, 227:5, 230:7,

242:20

Fischer [11] - 8:22,

14:6, 169:10, 169:14,

171:3, 171:4, 171:6,

179:21, 182:21,

190:15, 211:9

FISCHER [17] - 6:4,

167:8, 167:12, 171:6,

171:10, 171:15,

171:23, 172:2, 172:6,

172:16, 172:21,

172:25, 182:23,

190:14, 190:16,

192:11, 192:14

fit [1] - 213:9

five [16] - 70:15,

71:15, 71:16, 142:19,

145:14, 149:15,

156:5, 165:12,

175:23, 177:19,

232:9, 237:23, 240:9,

241:18, 243:19,

243:22

five-factor [2] -

165:12, 237:23

five-step [3] - 71:15,

71:16, 175:23

fixed [2] - 101:14,

181:24

flawed [1] - 120:14

fleet [2] - 197:7,

197:9

flex [1] - 215:6

flexibility [1] - 154:1

flow [2] - 36:11,

147:9

flowing [1] - 34:20

fly [6] - 50:25, 51:13,

52:3, 73:1, 74:13,

159:18

Flynn [13] - 13:13,

16:4, 16:22, 17:8,

18:21, 41:2, 60:21,

63:5, 153:3, 231:24,

235:3, 243:4, 243:10

FLYNN [34] - 4:4,

17:12, 18:1, 18:5,

37:4, 37:7, 37:10,

37:14, 37:17, 38:1,

38:9, 38:24, 40:23,

41:6, 43:25, 44:22,

45:20, 46:2, 47:14,

49:3, 49:8, 49:11,

49:23, 50:16, 51:2,

51:4, 51:8, 54:19,

56:7, 57:7, 57:10,

59:17, 59:20, 63:7

Flynn's [1] - 64:19

focus [1] - 232:4

focused [1] - 175:15

focuses [1] - 173:16

focusing [1] - 71:17

folded [1] - 224:23

folding [1] - 229:2

follow [7] - 48:20,

102:22, 126:2, 182:5,

187:22, 192:25,

238:21

follow-up [1] - 126:2

followed [10] - 27:11,

142:3, 144:16,

175:21, 180:8,

180:10, 181:21,

226:21, 245:14

Followed [1] -

174:16

following [7] - 50:24,

105:12, 106:2,

112:14, 170:3,

239:12, 243:19

follows [25] - 18:3,

67:6, 77:3, 81:15,

88:14, 92:23, 95:19,

100:8, 104:5, 106:23,

110:4, 131:21,

139:22, 143:7, 146:3,

150:3, 151:23, 155:3,

157:11, 158:19,

167:14, 195:3, 207:3,

224:13, 227:6

fondly [1] - 89:1

food [2] - 134:14

foolishness [1] -

92:6

FOR [1] - 1:5

forced [4] - 21:9,

28:15, 29:18, 147:8

forces [1] - 102:6

forecasting [1] -

207:18

foregoing [2] -

250:7, 250:8

foreseeable [2] -

220:16, 220:19

forget [1] - 48:6

forgot [3] - 133:8,

147:12, 147:22

fork [1] - 89:20

form [2] - 16:18,

37:15

formality [1] - 45:4

formally [3] - 15:24,

18:20, 209:15

format [1] - 166:24

formatting [1] - 55:4

former [5] - 97:20,

100:19, 151:5,

156:16, 157:7

forms [1] - 28:23

formula [1] - 189:8

formulating [1] -

65:7

Fort [1] - 94:5

forth [4] - 51:23,

146:19, 177:5, 228:3

fortunate [2] -

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

15

143:24, 214:25

forum [1] - 240:15

forward [38] - 23:10,

24:10, 25:17, 26:15,

26:18, 30:21, 31:5,

32:13, 32:19, 32:23,

34:11, 35:5, 36:8,

42:17, 42:25, 43:5,

44:24, 47:5, 48:12,

48:14, 50:20, 50:22,

53:18, 54:2, 55:1,

55:9, 55:13, 62:3,

97:22, 137:18,

186:25, 200:13,

212:24, 220:12,

226:18, 237:8,

240:23, 241:10

fossil [5] - 88:23,

89:8, 89:17, 91:4,

91:11

fouled [1] - 159:10

foundation [1] -

181:15

foundations [1] -

97:4

four [46] - 24:11,

30:18, 72:7, 72:8,

74:7, 74:17, 85:2,

85:5, 85:9, 85:13,

85:18, 85:24, 86:4,

86:9, 88:3, 105:8,

123:7, 133:2, 134:22,

137:12, 139:2,

139:15, 140:7, 140:9,

140:23, 141:4,

149:14, 149:15,

170:12, 170:14,

175:15, 177:15,

178:10, 180:23,

182:6, 182:11,

184:14, 189:21,

198:8, 233:7, 233:23,

234:1, 234:3, 234:15,

241:17

Four [22] - 24:13,

25:25, 26:8, 32:8,

34:8, 34:24, 96:10,

97:3, 98:12, 99:6,

101:9, 107:16,

107:18, 108:16,

135:18, 137:4, 142:1,

146:17, 151:10,

197:13, 205:8, 225:15

four-unit [7] - 85:2,

85:5, 85:9, 85:13,

85:18, 85:24, 86:4

fourth [1] - 73:2

fragmented [1] -

16:15

frame [2] - 132:12,
153:20

framework [1] -

58:25

Francis [1] - 2:10

Francisco [1] -

107:21

frequency [1] -

177:25

frequently [1] -

57:14

friends [2] - 93:18,

97:20

front [7] - 92:16,

97:25, 100:3, 114:8,

203:11, 235:13

fruition [3] - 43:13,

43:21, 47:22

Fruitland [3] -

142:23, 224:24,

226:24

frustration [2] -

191:15, 191:19

fry [1] - 138:19

fuel [15] - 79:24,

80:1, 80:2, 80:8,

88:23, 89:8, 89:18,

91:11, 128:22, 129:8,

129:15, 195:16,

206:6, 206:7

fuels [1] - 91:5

FULFER [35] - 2:3,

36:24, 37:6, 37:8,

37:11, 37:15, 37:23,

38:7, 38:21, 40:5,

40:24, 111:4, 111:11,

112:14, 112:24,

113:10, 113:17,

114:19, 115:5,

115:10, 115:12,

116:13, 116:20,

117:4, 117:12, 118:1,

118:13, 126:2, 126:4,

127:13, 212:15,

212:18, 213:5, 244:3,

244:5

Fulfer[10] - 36:23,

37:4, 37:17, 38:1,

38:9, 38:25, 56:2,

111:8, 114:7, 126:15

fulfilled [1] - 41:10

full [22] - 25:24,

88:17, 93:1, 94:11,

95:21, 100:10, 104:8,

107:1, 121:11,

131:24, 138:14,

139:25, 143:10,

148:13, 150:5, 155:5,

157:13, 158:21,

165:7, 215:7, 224:16,

227:9

full-time [1] - 94:11

fully [15] - 19:8,

21:15, 34:12, 56:21,

121:12, 163:5,

163:19, 188:9,

193:11, 193:13,

206:10, 210:13,

220:9, 226:4, 237:20

function [2] - 163:9,

180:6

functions [2] -

195:17, 207:17

fund [1] - 134:12

fundamental [2] -

68:17, 210:17

funded [1] - 37:13

funding [5] - 37:22,

37:25, 38:2, 56:5,

244:15

funny [1] - 51:10

future [16] - 29:11,

105:25, 106:6,

107:25, 108:5, 109:2,

140:19, 145:14,

219:12, 220:13,

220:16, 220:19,

221:15, 226:5, 226:6

fuzzy [1] - 121:24

G

G-A-I-A-W-A-D [1] -

173:6

G-O-N-Z-A-L-E-S [1]

- 155:7

G-O-U-L-D [1] -

152:2

GAIKWAD [14] - 6:4,

167:8, 167:12, 173:5,

173:9, 173:14,

173:19, 173:24,

174:9, 174:12,

174:15, 174:21,

180:5, 189:15

Gaikwad [10] - 9:5,

14:4, 173:2, 173:3,

173:5, 175:20, 180:2,

182:20, 184:14

gain [2] - 119:15,

245:16

gallons [1] - 159:14

game [1] - 232:21

gap [1] - 189:12

gas [45] - 26:9,

29:22, 30:7, 32:4,

34:17, 61:4, 61:6,

74:24, 79:16, 79:19,

90:18, 90:20, 90:24,

95:8, 96:2, 97:6,

98:15, 98:16, 98:20,

98:23, 99:1, 99:3,

99:5, 99:18, 99:21,

99:23, 100:1, 103:13,

105:17, 106:10,

108:9, 136:24, 137:3,

137:5, 142:14,

146:21, 147:18,

151:9, 151:11,

151:12, 168:6, 181:1,

181:7, 203:20

Gas [4] - 95:25, 98:2,

98:21, 100:1

gas-fired [3] - 61:4,

90:18, 90:24

gathering [1] - 99:4

gee [1] - 90:5

General [8] - 2:8,

2:9, 3:3, 23:4, 39:6,

39:10, 39:16, 40:15

general [18] - 13:11,

14:10, 18:25, 43:4,

52:13, 53:2, 63:24,

78:24, 79:11, 89:9,

127:23, 147:7, 152:3,

171:14, 175:7, 189:1,

190:1, 216:2

General's [2] - 23:4,

38:23

generally [7] - 13:4,

62:2, 62:5, 62:15,

62:16, 129:24, 185:4

generate [1] - 137:1

generated [2] - 29:3,

233:15

Generating [75] -

7:14, 10:5, 10:22,

15:1, 15:9, 15:12,

15:18, 19:20, 20:4,

22:12, 25:6, 25:13,

29:10, 29:12, 30:5,

30:9, 30:16, 33:15,

68:1, 70:11, 71:16,

73:22, 77:23, 79:3,

81:5, 82:9, 93:6,

96:12, 104:22, 107:5,

107:16, 108:1, 109:7,

117:11, 117:23,

127:5, 129:19, 132:9,

133:3, 133:13,

133:22, 134:22,

135:4, 137:7, 137:11,

140:20, 140:22,

140:24, 141:24,

142:7, 142:13,

142:16, 142:25,

143:2, 144:21,

145:20, 150:12,

151:1, 156:1, 164:10,

165:14, 166:22,

169:12, 175:8, 197:8,

197:12, 203:22,

210:6, 225:17,

225:23, 225:25,

226:20, 227:1, 228:8,

239:15

GENERATING [1] -

1:5

generating [7] -

29:20, 30:4, 90:19,

105:5, 108:11,

146:21, 195:15

generation [22] -

14:3, 28:23, 28:25,

30:2, 30:6, 34:13,

40:8, 61:4, 89:8,

91:11, 98:17, 98:25,

165:25, 167:25,

195:12, 197:7,

209:24, 212:4, 216:9,

221:15, 221:17,

233:14

generic [1] - 189:8

gentleman [1] -

139:13

gentlemen [2] -

87:21, 140:2

germane [2] -

221:17, 222:18

gI [1] - 81:13

GI [4] - 4:12, 5:5,

17:13, 110:2

Gi [7] - 8:4, 8:5,

13:14, 33:3, 73:10,

76:8, 81:20

gI-DONG [1] - 81:13

Gi-Dong [7] - 8:4,

8:5, 13:14, 33:3,

73:10, 76:8, 81:20

GI-DONG [4] - 4:12,

5:5, 17:13, 110:2

Gina [1] - 48:1

given [6] - 29:23,

76:10, 105:13,

152:21, 187:21,

250:12

glad [2] - 110:20,

165:22

global [2] - 88:22,

91:3

goal [2] - 108:15,

108:17

goals [2] - 15:2,

108:22

Gonzales [1] - 155:7

GONZALES [4] -

5:20, 149:19, 155:1,

155:7

GOULD [26] - 3:3,

5:18, 14:9, 60:7,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

16

60:13, 66:4, 128:9,

128:12, 128:13,

128:16, 128:20,

129:2, 129:14,

129:21, 130:9,

149:19, 151:21,

151:25, 194:9, 202:8,

202:10, 215:14,

215:16, 219:19,

222:7, 238:7

Gould [18] - 4:7, 5:7,

6:9, 6:13, 14:10, 60:6,

66:2, 128:8, 128:18,

129:6, 130:1, 152:2,

194:8, 202:7, 215:13,

215:18, 223:3, 238:5

governances [1] -

156:6

governing [2] -

140:10, 225:6

government [11] -

23:17, 24:2, 37:13,

43:18, 101:7, 134:13,

201:15, 240:4, 240:5,

240:6, 244:17

government's [1] -

240:11

governmental [1] -

207:19

governments [2] -

102:8

Governor[14] -

18:12, 18:23, 21:23,

22:22, 36:15, 38:21,

39:12, 40:1, 40:20,

42:18, 43:1, 100:19,

136:7, 244:21

Governor's [2] -

35:17, 154:2

grade [1] - 207:18

graduate [1] - 67:20

Grand [1] - 157:24

grand [1] - 245:22

Grande [1] - 101:10

grandkids [1] - 162:5

grant [1] - 12:14

GRANTHAM [37] -

2:8, 10:11, 10:14,

13:8, 14:17, 17:10,

17:15, 17:22, 59:21,

63:13, 63:17, 63:20,

66:24, 67:8, 70:6,

70:9, 76:25, 77:5,

81:17, 87:8, 87:24,

111:8, 115:6, 126:15,

130:16, 130:18,

131:5, 194:7, 202:6,

215:12, 223:18,

223:23, 229:22,

230:24, 236:15,
236:18, 236:22

Grantham [19] - 4:9,

4:11, 4:13, 10:7, 13:6,

13:10, 14:16, 18:10,

59:11, 59:15, 63:11,

66:22, 66:23, 109:25,

130:14, 223:17,

229:21, 237:1, 242:13

graphs [1] - 242:14

grassroots [1] -

104:15

gray [1] - 157:20

great [16] - 18:9,

19:4, 41:7, 57:12,

105:8, 107:14,

134:16, 138:20,

139:17, 147:19,

151:12, 164:21,

192:20, 205:3,

231:21, 240:8

greater [2] - 20:10,

91:21

greatest [2] - 35:11,

107:13

greatly [2] - 106:11,

225:4

green [9] - 146:25,

147:4, 147:6, 147:23,

147:25, 148:5, 148:6,

148:11, 148:13

greenhouse [3] -

105:17, 106:10,

136:24

greenies [1] - 148:15

Greg [1] - 244:2

GREGORY [1] - 2:3

grew [1] - 93:8

ground [1] - 64:5

grounded [1] - 91:11

grounds [3] - 58:7,

58:17, 237:24

Group [2] - 32:8,

34:25

group [2] - 35:13,

89:18

group's [2] - 149:6,

173:19

groups [11] - 24:3,

24:4, 24:5, 25:3, 25:5,

87:14, 146:12,

146:15, 146:25,

148:6, 150:17

growth [1] - 97:8

guarantee [2] -

31:19, 92:13

guarantees [1] - 56:3

guess [20] - 13:18,

18:20, 18:21, 37:11,

37:23, 40:15, 40:20,

102:13, 119:25,

121:20, 122:7, 124:6,

126:12, 127:13,

149:12, 157:5,

188:21, 204:9,

235:13, 245:3

guidance [1] - 50:1

guideline [2] - 82:12,

84:1

guidelines [14] - 7:8,

70:12, 70:14, 70:15,

89:12, 89:13, 90:21,

91:2, 175:21, 180:8,

180:9, 180:11,

181:22, 189:6

guise [1] - 218:13

guy [1] - 211:9

guys [1] - 162:9

H

H-A-R-W-O-O-D [1] -

224:18

H-E-N-K-E [1] -

95:24

hair [1] - 157:20

half [21] - 20:22,

20:23, 21:11, 22:8,

27:15, 33:5, 38:20,

74:8, 90:9, 90:10,

91:19, 92:16, 92:17,

123:20, 126:14,

147:25, 178:6, 191:4,

201:18, 233:24, 246:2

halfway [2] - 128:20,

196:6

hand [1] - 214:19

handful [1] - 38:13

handle [1] - 98:13

handling [1] - 72:24

hands [6] - 63:5,

65:24, 138:24, 139:9,

149:12, 224:5

hang [1] - 100:17

happily [1] - 215:9

happy [7] - 19:10,

88:25, 102:13, 108:7,

138:8, 144:23, 182:23

harassment [1] -

11:17

hard [8] - 40:6, 40:9,

102:23, 123:4, 163:4,

220:14, 230:2, 236:4

harder [1] - 244:24

hardest [1] - 40:9

harsh [1] - 141:18

HARWOOD [3] -

6:14, 224:11, 224:17

Harwood [2] -

224:17, 224:20

hate [3] - 55:5, 55:6,

55:20

haul [1] - 96:23

haystack [1] - 127:18

hazardous [1] -

219:7

haze [21] - 10:2,

14:23, 15:6, 19:18,

20:17, 20:21, 21:1,

21:2, 21:3, 37:20,

38:11, 89:5, 104:22,

107:23, 148:21,

150:20, 163:15,

192:21, 210:19,

210:24, 212:3

Haze [5] - 15:4,

132:14, 145:6, 164:6,

234:8

head [2] - 138:13,

149:13

header [2] - 170:12,

170:14

headers [2] - 54:12,

54:18

headings [1] - 65:9

headquartered [1] -

210:3

health [5] - 153:18,

153:20, 188:24,

231:17, 242:1

hear [9] - 60:11,

64:24, 102:13, 108:7,

139:7, 155:19,

202:13, 202:16,

205:24

heard [19] - 11:7,

88:2, 98:7, 127:15,

141:9, 156:19, 161:4,

172:17, 198:7, 203:1,

211:4, 211:14,

228:10, 231:21,

232:6, 233:1, 233:11,

233:16, 233:20

hearing [32] - 1:16,

7:16, 10:2, 10:20,

11:3, 11:6, 11:7,

11:19, 12:7, 12:23,

41:15, 48:2, 48:13,

62:24, 76:9, 86:22,

110:6, 126:16,

126:25, 127:1,

130:10, 163:14,

168:14, 212:19,

238:11, 238:12,

238:13, 238:20,

242:10, 243:3,

243:15, 245:17

Hearing [32] - 10:19,

13:8, 13:21, 14:9,

14:17, 51:7, 51:11,

54:19, 56:7, 57:7,

60:17, 63:13, 66:4,

66:24, 88:20, 111:19,

115:14, 121:10,

122:9, 123:9, 128:4,

130:18, 130:23,

131:6, 139:3, 146:5,

152:1, 162:23,

174:22, 209:14,

223:9, 229:22

hearings [2] -

154:14, 165:24

heat [1] - 205:21

heater [1] - 181:12

heavily [2] - 24:5,

31:3

held [2] - 10:20,

162:7

hell's [1] - 160:7

hello [1] - 107:2

help [9] - 37:16,

117:8, 145:14, 156:1,

228:12, 229:8, 229:9,

240:21, 246:19

helped [3] - 94:7,

228:4

helpful [3] - 65:8,

179:10, 242:15

helping [2] - 135:22,

240:22

helps [3] - 34:19,

108:16, 213:15

hence [1] - 147:10

HENKE [5] - 4:18,

66:7, 88:7, 95:17,

95:23

Henke [3] - 66:6,

87:22, 95:23

hereby [1] - 250:7

hereto [1] - 250:16

high [9] - 116:2,

116:3, 116:6, 116:7,

138:13, 147:10,

189:14

higher [5] - 116:9,

116:10, 134:2, 151:3,

152:20

highlight [1] - 97:18

highly [2] - 27:20,

134:1

highways [1] -

103:12

himself [1] - 152:25

hire [1] - 215:4

hired [4] - 96:13,

133:21, 160:2, 160:3

history [5] - 35:12,

96:12, 195:19, 214:1,

219:21

hit [2] - 148:15,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

17

244:7

hold [1] - 122:4

holds [1] - 226:6

hole [1] - 154:10

hollow [1] - 36:3

HOLT [10] - 2:5,

185:3, 185:10,

185:16, 185:24,

187:10, 188:13,

239:3, 239:25, 246:25

home [4] - 102:16,

102:19, 220:10,

229:16

honed [1] - 49:14

honest [1] - 35:21

honor [3] - 18:7,

19:1, 56:25

honorable [1] -

102:4

hook [1] - 55:23

hope [10] - 133:9,

144:9, 148:21,

163:15, 163:21,

197:23, 221:11,

228:19, 237:9, 244:19

hopefully [2] - 42:4,

50:17

hour [1] - 1:18

hours [1] - 105:1

house [2] - 159:13,

223:20

household [3] -

133:25, 134:2, 134:5

housekeeping [1] -

230:5

houses [2] - 219:24,

231:25

Hubert [2] - 224:17,

224:20

HUBERT [3] - 6:14,

224:11, 224:18

huge [1] - 92:5

human [4] - 33:7,

75:15, 75:16, 177:13

hundred [1] - 138:15

hundreds [1] - 107:9

hunt [1] - 5:24

HUNT [3] - 158:17,

158:23, 162:12

Hunt [1] - 158:23

hurdle [1] - 220:13

hypothetical [1] -

115:21

hypotheticals [1] -

121:5

I

idea [2] - 91:10,
114:18

ideal [1] - 156:18

identification [1] -

71:19

identify [2] - 69:19,

70:18

ignoring [1] - 147:24

imagine [1] - 220:15

immediate [1] -

144:9

immediately [3] -

22:23, 112:13, 112:18

impact [37] - 46:21,

46:22, 73:6, 80:6,

83:13, 84:17, 84:22,

85:5, 96:9, 99:3, 99:9,

99:16, 99:19, 101:8,

101:20, 109:1, 117:1,

117:3, 129:4, 133:5,

134:25, 135:12,

137:16, 137:20,

141:7, 141:12, 151:8,

153:14, 165:1,

181:18, 197:13,

203:3, 203:5, 212:5,

218:16, 248:13

impacted [6] - 80:7,

100:25, 101:7,

102:11, 129:11,

201:23

impactful [1] -

101:19

impacts [42] - 22:24,

24:16, 24:17, 29:2,

34:5, 34:8, 46:23,

71:3, 71:4, 71:5, 71:7,

71:10, 72:4, 72:11,

72:16, 73:3, 73:8,

76:8, 84:4, 92:4,

101:13, 117:18,

127:4, 141:23,

144:10, 144:24,

145:7, 145:8, 151:6,

164:8, 175:19,

177:19, 178:3, 178:9,

181:3, 204:16, 225:5,

225:10, 233:11,

241:16, 246:4

impairment [4] -

85:2, 117:6, 126:7,

136:23

impending [1] -

144:24

imperceptible [3] -

75:14, 177:23, 179:1

implement [3] -

108:18, 165:7, 187:1

implementation [4] -

15:21, 22:11, 109:7,

228:7

IMPLEMENTATION

[1] - 1:4

Implementation [63]

- 10:3, 10:21, 15:17,

16:8, 16:14, 18:13,

18:18, 19:17, 20:3,

20:12, 21:2, 21:21,

23:7, 24:16, 27:2,

27:6, 27:22, 28:2,

28:5, 31:14, 32:19,

32:24, 33:18, 33:19,

36:2, 38:17, 73:14,

77:25, 81:4, 93:6,

94:14, 98:3, 98:8,

99:15, 100:2, 103:19,

104:21, 126:18,

132:9, 140:21, 141:2,

141:9, 141:11,

141:15, 142:6,

142:24, 144:20,

145:19, 150:11,

152:6, 152:18,

163:19, 166:17,

182:2, 210:9, 210:16,

226:20, 226:25,

232:6, 234:20, 243:13

implemented [3] -

164:9, 180:19, 188:9

implications [1] -

81:1

implicitly [1] -

187:16

importance [2] -

97:2, 197:9

important [17] -

20:15, 21:5, 22:4,

22:21, 26:1, 27:7,

103:9, 103:10, 108:4,

133:10, 137:18,

163:9, 165:3, 183:23,

185:18, 198:3, 226:7

importation [1] -

30:11

impose [4] - 23:8,

58:18, 65:2, 243:13

imposed [2] - 36:12,

164:9

imposing [1] - 59:3

impressed [1] -

36:14

improve [6] - 25:22,

85:18, 129:15,

177:16, 205:21, 212:2

IMPROVEMENT [1] -

1:1

improvement [17] -

35:11, 71:11, 73:12,

82:12, 84:10, 85:15,

85:21, 86:3, 89:6,

136:18, 164:21,

170:5, 177:9, 178:19,

184:2, 233:22, 241:19

Improvement [6] -

1:16, 2:2, 10:18, 81:3,

105:1, 170:15

improvements [8] -

20:10, 32:21, 32:25,

33:4, 33:8, 73:11,

73:13, 84:13

improving [2] -

85:11, 136:6

IN [1] - 1:4

inclination [2] -

193:17, 241:1

inclined [3] - 42:14,

42:15, 55:1

include [7] - 13:25,

117:2, 137:2, 168:4,

200:18, 200:19,

239:19

included [2] - 14:24,

77:19

includes [11] - 68:5,

90:8, 108:12, 135:9,

135:16, 137:8,

140:15, 142:9,

142:11, 164:12,

193:22

including [32] - 8:14,

8:19, 8:24, 9:8, 15:6,

15:7, 23:25, 24:1,

24:12, 26:12, 30:21,

33:24, 34:22, 35:7,

39:3, 45:3, 76:11,

83:20, 86:16, 101:23,

136:17, 142:17,

147:16, 166:1, 166:4,

182:12, 231:19,

231:23, 234:23,

241:24, 242:2

income [2] - 134:2,

134:17

incomes [1] - 101:14

inconvenience [1] -

239:1

incorporate [5] -

64:25, 81:6, 117:14,

121:8, 122:14

incorporated [3] -

64:19, 110:20, 185:13

incorporates [1] -

127:7

increase [7] - 80:5,

97:7, 98:23, 99:25,

124:17, 124:20,

199:16

increased [1] - 190:7

increases [5] -

181:1, 181:8, 181:14,

181:20, 190:5

incredible [1] - 54:8

incurred [1] - 47:4

indeed [2] - 204:17,

204:18

independent [1] -

29:15

index [1] - 181:19

India [2] - 173:25,

174:1

Indian [1] - 174:1

indicate [1] - 98:7

indicated [6] - 16:22,

87:16, 99:2, 163:18,

186:13, 218:2

indicates [2] - 80:15,

177:18

indicating [1] - 85:23

indications [1] -

198:17

indicative [1] - 198:9

indirectly [1] - 134:5

indistinguishable

[1] - 233:23

individual [1] - 178:2

Industrial [8] - 3:2,

12:11, 12:16, 14:8,

14:11, 24:1, 152:4,

152:8

industry [5] - 97:6,

129:25, 147:19,

147:24, 195:20

inevitable [1] - 28:12

infeasible [2] -

70:22, 71:21

informal [1] - 47:13

information [9] -

71:17, 120:2, 127:25,

175:12, 175:19,

179:24, 182:10,

187:5, 243:14

infrastructure [2] -

99:5, 99:23

inherited [4] - 21:6,

26:20, 36:5, 36:6

initial [2] - 52:7,

192:23

initiate [1] - 41:24

initiation [1] - 169:1

Initiative [1] - 145:13

initiatives [3] -

105:18, 105:19,

151:15

injected [2] - 79:16,

79:19

injection [2] - 79:21

injury [2] - 231:17,

241:25

inlet [1] - 181:12

inorganic [1] -

125:14

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

18

input [3] - 49:19,

102:13, 176:24

insert [1] - 222:20

inserted [2] - 62:10,

83:2

insertion [1] - 221:3

install [6] - 68:21,

90:18, 134:20, 135:5,

135:7, 204:18

installation [20] -

20:6, 29:16, 48:22,

71:1, 71:8, 71:12,

72:7, 72:9, 73:24,

79:2, 136:16, 137:9,

141:3, 142:10,

197:20, 198:10,

198:12, 198:13, 211:1

installations [1] -

92:1

installed [5] - 70:20,

123:7, 181:13, 193:2,

219:25

installing [2] - 90:23,

141:14

instance [2] -

122:21, 248:22

instead [1] - 244:22

Institute [2] - 148:1,

174:1

institution [1] -

136:2

intact [1] - 65:12

intend [2] - 12:24,

121:12

intended [1] - 122:23

intends [1] - 186:17

intent [14] - 12:8,

12:9, 17:16, 64:12,

159:25, 169:16,

188:12, 192:21,

192:23, 193:18,

199:15, 230:14,

230:17, 245:22

intention [3] - 42:17,

49:2, 51:13

intentional [1] -

64:22

intentionally [1] -

35:18

intentions [1] -

186:14

intents [1] - 249:1

interest [10] - 25:16,

35:21, 39:8, 39:24,

40:3, 101:15, 137:23,

141:5, 210:7, 242:2

interested [4] -

23:20, 138:18, 224:6,

250:17

interesting [2] -
49:14, 187:13

interests [9] - 23:16,

35:23, 140:11,

143:23, 144:14,

225:7, 226:14,

231:19, 231:22

interference [2] -

231:17, 241:25

interfering [1] -

126:18

interject [1] - 222:4

interlinked [2] -

93:17, 94:18

interplay [1] - 248:11

interpretation [2] -

244:10, 245:15

interrupt [1] - 223:18

interstate [2] -

103:12, 126:22

intervene [2] - 12:12,

12:15

intervenors [1] -

42:21

intimidation [1] -

11:18

intricate [1] - 177:13

introduce [2] - 13:7,

18:20

introduction [1] -

96:11

inventory [1] - 96:14

invest [3] - 29:13,

30:15

investment [6] -

29:12, 29:19, 120:8,

129:12, 220:1, 220:5

investor [1] - 210:1

investor-owned [1] -

210:1

invite [1] - 138:17

involved [13] - 24:5,

39:17, 47:11, 48:7,

48:9, 76:4, 78:1, 78:4,

107:24, 144:14,

226:13, 242:6, 242:8

involvement [2] -

83:11, 248:10

Iowa [2] - 67:19,

172:7

iPad [1] - 133:7

ironic [3] - 57:14,

57:21, 58:5

irony [1] - 57:17

issuance [1] -

112:20

issue [23] - 19:5,

27:1, 33:2, 37:16,

44:3, 57:6, 83:12,

97:23, 112:10,

121:14, 142:4,

148:16, 163:17,

165:19, 166:15,

188:16, 198:24,

219:6, 221:17,

226:21, 232:5,

234:22, 245:4

issued [2] - 112:11,

122:5

issues [15] - 19:8,

19:11, 49:14, 62:5,

62:7, 62:17, 66:21,

155:20, 156:4,

166:13, 168:8,

214:22, 218:4, 237:5,

244:19

IT [1] - 1:14

itchy [1] - 107:19

item [2] - 10:1,

238:20

itself [5] - 44:11,

176:15, 178:14,

186:4, 187:20

J

Jackson [1] - 228:23

JAMES [8] - 2:4,

4:14, 4:24, 88:7,

88:12, 88:18, 104:1,

106:21

James [2] - 88:18,

107:3

January [3] - 20:24,

48:22, 123:7

jeopardize [1] -

44:11

jet [1] - 161:1

job [44] - 31:23,

31:24, 32:5, 120:16,

132:19, 133:1,

133:11, 134:1, 134:4,

134:9, 134:24, 135:2,

135:5, 135:15, 136:6,

136:8, 137:22,

137:25, 138:5,

144:25, 145:6,

147:25, 148:5,

151:15, 167:22,

168:2, 171:9, 171:14,

173:8, 173:13, 191:4,

195:10, 195:13,

197:25, 201:3,

207:11, 207:15,

207:16, 215:8, 215:9,

225:14, 228:2,

242:22, 243:22

jobs [37] - 24:17,

26:10, 31:20, 31:21,

32:2, 47:1, 47:3,

94:23, 98:11, 98:13,

108:10, 111:5, 111:6,

136:3, 136:18,

140:16, 141:12,

142:15, 143:25,

145:1, 147:23,

147:25, 148:4, 159:2,

160:8, 161:11,

161:12, 163:6, 163:8,

189:1, 214:17, 225:9,

225:11, 225:13,

226:7, 226:12

Joe [1] - 155:7

JOE [3] - 5:20,

149:19, 155:1

John [3] - 10:17,

120:23, 245:14

JOHN [1] - 2:4

joined [1] - 186:10

joint [1] - 101:18

joys [1] - 49:24

JUAN [1] - 1:5

Juan [130] - 1:17,

7:13, 10:5, 10:21,

15:1, 15:9, 15:12,

15:18, 15:22, 16:10,

16:11, 19:19, 19:22,

20:4, 22:12, 25:6,

25:13, 29:10, 29:12,

30:4, 30:9, 30:16,

33:15, 35:2, 40:8,

61:4, 61:22, 68:1,

70:11, 71:15, 73:22,

77:23, 79:3, 81:5,

82:9, 89:8, 89:11,

89:21, 90:17, 92:8,

93:6, 94:2, 94:5,

96:12, 96:19, 97:9,

97:11, 99:7, 104:22,

105:8, 107:5, 107:15,

107:16, 108:1, 108:9,

108:20, 109:7,

117:11, 117:23,

127:5, 129:19,

129:23, 132:9, 133:2,

133:13, 133:17,

133:22, 134:22,

135:4, 136:1, 137:7,

137:11, 140:4,

140:20, 140:22,

140:23, 141:24,

142:5, 142:6, 142:13,

142:14, 142:16,

142:21, 142:24,

143:1, 144:20,

145:20, 146:17,

146:20, 150:9,

150:12, 151:1, 156:1,

156:18, 158:14,

159:15, 164:10,

165:14, 166:22,

169:11, 175:8, 181:4,

183:15, 186:24,

197:8, 197:9, 197:11,

197:20, 199:5,

200:16, 203:21,

204:18, 205:7,

205:22, 210:6,

210:10, 215:2,

217:10, 218:1,

219:25, 225:17,

225:18, 225:21,

225:23, 225:25,

226:20, 226:25,

228:8, 228:18, 239:15

judges [1] - 127:16

July [2] - 20:18,

239:16

jump [1] - 240:1

juncture [1] - 139:7

June [4] - 19:16,

172:16, 231:3, 234:21

jurisdiction [13] -

61:12, 61:14, 61:16,

61:24, 62:12, 62:18,

154:9, 221:5, 234:24,

235:8, 235:9, 235:12

jurisdictional [2] -

221:15, 237:5

Justice [5] - 44:20,

44:22, 44:23, 58:15,

222:11

justifications [2] -

18:11, 50:11

justified [2] - 22:15,

59:5

K

K'aan [2] - 107:4,

109:4

KALLIE [1] - 2:18

Kallie [1] - 13:24

kallie.kuehl@

pnmresources.com

[1] - 2:22

Kathy [1] - 11:21

keep [14] - 16:14,

54:15, 57:20, 92:5,

113:25, 147:24,

148:17, 149:12,

173:20, 209:22,

226:16, 229:25,

238:10, 245:1

keeping [3] - 90:11,

152:12, 200:8

keeps [1] - 189:4

Kentucky [1] - 67:20

key [5] - 19:13,

48:11, 73:18, 141:5,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

19

155:18

kid [2] - 138:13,

162:4

kids [3] - 94:1, 94:4,

138:13

killed [1] - 228:2

Kim [13] - 8:4, 8:5,

13:14, 33:3, 81:18,

81:20, 110:14,

124:24, 127:6,

127:11, 233:20,

242:14

KIM [16] - 4:12, 5:5,

17:13, 81:13, 110:2,

110:18, 110:24,

115:3, 115:13,

116:17, 117:1, 118:5,

118:12, 125:3,

125:18, 125:20

kind [31] - 16:14,

28:20, 40:7, 43:4,

49:13, 57:15, 64:10,

64:17, 65:12, 68:17,

87:14, 113:15,

114:23, 120:3, 121:4,

121:23, 122:7,

126:22, 127:10,

127:13, 135:22,

164:15, 189:12,

203:7, 204:5, 211:8,

214:17, 216:22,

234:7, 235:8, 246:3

kindly [1] - 153:7

kinds [1] - 48:25

Kirtland [2] - 140:5,

224:25

knowledge [1] -

157:1

known [5] - 19:23,

129:16, 129:17,

129:23, 141:10

Kuehl [1] - 13:24

KUEHL [1] - 2:18

KUEHN [18] - 4:8,

5:4, 17:13, 67:4,

110:2, 117:16,

118:25, 119:5, 119:8,

119:13, 119:18,

120:6, 120:21,

124:11, 124:14,

124:19, 130:22, 131:3

Kuehn [9] - 7:24,

7:25, 13:14, 33:11,

67:3, 67:9, 67:11,

130:19, 232:7

KYLE [4] - 6:4,

167:8, 167:12, 167:19

Kyle [4] - 8:21, 14:5,

167:11, 167:19
L

L-U-C-A-S [1] -

167:20

labeled [1] - 25:4

labor [4] - 181:19,

190:6, 191:8

lack [2] - 244:11,

244:14

ladder [1] - 40:7

ladies [1] - 140:1

laid [3] - 78:8,

135:13, 135:23

land [2] - 91:20,

107:9

Land [5] - 7:18,

75:21, 96:15, 96:18,

96:20

language [15] - 48:7,

50:13, 50:19, 50:21,

51:24, 58:14, 62:10,

62:22, 119:22,

122:17, 221:3, 222:9,

222:20, 235:13

large [4] - 91:11,

181:6, 187:22, 215:2

large-scale [1] -

91:11

larger [3] - 101:8,

181:6, 181:8

largest [4] - 40:14,

152:9, 152:14, 225:23

last [25] - 14:21,

49:7, 85:22, 100:17,

111:2, 118:7, 143:20,

144:18, 153:21,

159:23, 163:16,

168:16, 170:19,

174:15, 176:23,

181:10, 184:13,

196:14, 201:9,

203:10, 203:16,

209:6, 212:19, 224:9

lastly [2] - 197:14,

233:19

late [9] - 22:8, 22:14,

22:16, 27:15, 38:15,

59:6, 64:5, 157:23

lately [1] - 163:13

Law [1] - 2:15

law [7] - 22:16,

30:11, 52:20, 57:23,

58:11, 58:12, 230:10

laws [2] - 101:1,

127:14

lawsuit [10] - 21:22,

21:25, 38:22, 39:11,

39:19, 40:21, 42:19,

43:3, 219:23, 244:22

lawsuits [1] - 30:3

lawyers [3] - 160:2,

160:3, 187:24

lay [4] - 56:4, 108:11,

137:8, 142:16

layers [1] - 180:23

layoff [1] - 135:19

layoffs [6] - 26:6,

31:12, 31:16, 31:18,

31:20, 151:13

lays [1] - 183:3

lead [3] - 175:17,

179:15, 237:17

leader [2] - 35:20,

171:11

leaders [8] - 24:2,

25:12, 34:22, 35:6,

35:20, 36:8, 39:2,

39:23

leadership [8] -

21:12, 23:15, 35:17,

35:18, 36:12, 36:14,

145:9, 244:20

leading [2] - 37:11,

151:2

leads [2] - 54:4,

211:4

least [14] - 31:23,

65:1, 66:19, 99:24,

101:13, 101:19,

103:17, 105:6,

105:21, 106:17,

113:24, 141:7,

192:23, 232:17

leave [6] - 12:12,

12:15, 65:12, 66:18,

122:7, 159:21

leaves [2] - 58:20,

244:9

led [1] - 141:20

left [3] - 92:10,

153:24, 228:1

legal [13] - 56:14,

58:10, 59:9, 62:19,

63:22, 63:25, 89:24,

187:13, 188:10,

210:18, 232:5, 234:7,

245:8

legally [4] - 52:24,

53:15, 59:5

legislative [1] -

228:17

legislature [1] -

148:8

length [1] - 33:22

lengthy [1] - 11:8

less [23] - 19:25,

34:1, 38:18, 75:13,

85:2, 86:9, 99:3,

99:10, 112:1, 119:18,

136:16, 136:18,

142:10, 146:18,

147:1, 177:24,

178:24, 179:2,

220:11, 233:14,

233:15, 233:23

lessen [3] - 135:11,

145:6, 145:8

lessens [1] - 212:5

lesser [2] - 210:20,

213:23

lesson [1] - 153:10

letter [2] - 50:5,

159:24

letting [1] - 131:12

level [8] - 29:24,

41:24, 79:9, 101:14,

112:25, 127:21,

180:25, 191:15

levels [1] - 218:19

Lewis [1] - 94:5

License [1] - 250:20

license [1] - 172:13

licensing [1] - 168:7

lies [1] - 104:25

life [7] - 73:3, 73:4,

159:22, 220:20,

220:22, 232:22,

241:18

lifetime [1] - 73:5

lift [1] - 98:14

light [3] - 161:20,

161:21, 245:3

likely [1] - 91:20

likewise [1] - 165:25

limestone [3] - 74:4,

199:14, 233:13

limit [21] - 11:16,

19:21, 69:2, 111:14,

111:16, 112:12,

112:21, 114:11,

119:1, 124:10,

124:17, 198:21,

199:3, 199:4, 199:6,

199:8, 199:9, 199:17,

199:18, 217:15

limited [4] - 13:3,

22:14, 79:4, 241:24

limits [4] - 121:8,

122:6, 124:3, 177:3

line [24] - 34:4,

82:25, 83:3, 128:21,

129:3, 154:1, 169:24,

170:1, 170:3, 170:7,

170:9, 170:19,

184:15, 191:7, 201:2,

201:4, 204:5, 204:8,

204:14, 209:1, 209:3,

211:9, 213:25, 220:5

lines [9] - 62:22,

103:13, 170:1,

200:25, 204:4,

214:12, 221:25,

247:20

lining [1] - 184:9

Lisa [1] - 228:23

list [1] - 65:23

listed [2] - 178:13,

201:22

listen [4] - 155:16,

155:17, 157:1, 228:15

listened [2] - 156:24,

211:9

listening [6] - 138:7,

140:18, 155:9,

156:12, 158:25,

162:12

litigation [8] - 15:25,

23:13, 30:3, 45:3,

53:6, 240:17, 240:20,

240:21

litigations [2] -

159:23, 161:18

live [7] - 93:9,

103:10, 143:24,

147:14, 148:7,

157:25, 188:1

livelihood [1] -

225:12

lives [3] - 107:11,

153:22, 161:2

living [5] - 34:4,

93:19, 107:10, 144:4,

225:1

Liz [3] - 13:14, 33:11,

67:2

load [1] - 207:18

loaded [1] - 210:13

loan [1] - 148:3

lobbying [2] -

146:10, 148:10

lobbyists [2] - 148:7,

148:11

local [22] - 24:1,

24:5, 25:11, 34:16,

34:22, 34:24, 46:23,

93:8, 94:22, 95:12,

108:10, 136:19,

140:10, 141:22,

142:12, 142:15,

143:2, 143:22, 145:8,

151:6, 153:14, 225:6

Local [1] - 94:8

locally [3] - 153:12,

160:4, 225:6

located [5] - 107:14,

127:8, 127:9, 140:5,

143:17

location [2] - 70:4,

180:24

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

20

locations [1] -

154:19

logistical [1] - 66:21

long-term [11] -

25:21, 29:11, 29:21,

80:11, 80:12, 80:14,

98:11, 99:4, 114:12,

206:11, 213:9

longer-range [1] -

106:1

longevity [2] - 94:16,

94:17

longstanding [1] -

144:1

look [13] - 49:4, 50:2,

63:9, 64:10, 97:4,

97:6, 111:22, 115:5,

154:17, 160:17,

182:1, 189:21, 198:2

looked [11] - 30:20,

126:22, 153:17,

176:7, 176:17, 178:1,

178:2, 178:16,

181:23, 191:11,

205:13

looking [11] - 52:6,

87:1, 97:19, 103:2,

117:22, 117:24,

127:4, 127:25, 153:5,

218:22, 244:13

looks [8] - 50:25,

101:18, 101:25,

109:22, 149:14,

161:6, 204:1, 211:11

loose [1] - 53:7

lose [3] - 90:9, 134:9,

192:7

loses [1] - 165:1

losing [2] - 31:24,

90:15

loss [18] - 98:13,

98:16, 105:8, 105:10,

129:12, 133:1,

133:11, 134:4,

134:16, 134:23,

135:3, 135:5, 136:8,

137:6, 137:22,

137:24, 138:6, 192:11

losses [1] - 145:6

lost [9] - 47:4, 90:18,

91:14, 91:17, 92:3,

92:8, 111:5, 147:25,

216:23

Louisiana [1] - 77:18

love [1] - 227:22

loved [2] - 110:16,

191:3

low [1] - 189:13

lower [13] - 68:24,

69:1, 79:9, 79:16,
80:17, 90:20, 111:14,

113:8, 116:11, 122:6,

124:2, 183:21, 199:6

Lucas [10] - 8:21,

14:6, 167:11, 167:17,

167:19, 171:21,

172:14, 172:18,

175:4, 183:23

LUCAS [15] - 6:4,

167:8, 167:12,

167:19, 167:23,

168:3, 168:11,

168:15, 169:17,

169:20, 169:23,

171:1, 175:6, 179:14,

192:23

Luck [2] - 150:6,

150:9

LUCK [4] - 5:16,

149:19, 150:1, 150:6

luck [1] - 100:16

lunch [8] - 66:11,

66:20, 87:5, 87:17,

87:19, 100:17,

103:23, 109:10

Lundy [9] - 9:4, 14:4,

173:10, 175:20,

179:17, 179:25,

182:25, 189:25,

197:25

M

machine [1] - 250:10

Madam [19] - 13:9,

51:11, 54:19, 56:7,

57:7, 66:25, 88:20,

111:19, 121:10,

130:22, 131:7, 132:2,

143:13, 146:6,

151:25, 162:24,

193:13, 229:23

mail [2] - 12:18

main [3] - 73:15,

92:6, 152:12

Main [1] - 209:7

maintain [1] - 212:3

maintaining [2] -

132:13, 137:20

maintenance [6] -

94:10, 94:11, 96:25,

133:21, 225:14, 226:1

major [5] - 125:3,

133:13, 133:22,

180:14, 225:18

maker [1] - 62:7

makers [1] - 48:11

management [3] -

161:23, 161:24, 168:5

Management [5] -

7:18, 75:22, 96:15,

96:18, 96:21

manager [10] -

67:13, 77:10, 80:23,

96:25, 156:2, 156:8,

156:9, 167:24, 169:3,

179:22

manager's [1] -

169:6

mandate [3] - 37:12,

37:18, 98:6

mandated [1] - 29:16

mandates [4] -

100:25, 101:4, 244:8,

244:18

manner [3] - 230:1,

235:16, 237:19

manual [1] - 190:20

Manual [6] - 174:16,

174:17, 180:12,

181:23, 189:17,

189:19

manuals [1] - 189:8

March [1] - 112:3

marked [10] - 67:22,

68:10, 68:14, 69:7,

75:24, 76:2, 76:14,

82:5, 82:18, 83:8

marketing [2] -

195:16, 207:19

Marquette [1] - 2:15

Martinez [12] - 18:23,

21:7, 21:23, 22:22,

31:10, 32:10, 35:25,

39:12, 39:15, 42:18,

43:1, 136:7

Martinez' [1] - 18:12

master [1] - 82:2

master's [1] - 173:25

material [1] - 74:3

materials [2] -

130:21, 233:12

math [1] - 77:15

MATTER [1] - 1:4

matter [20] - 1:15,

10:19, 11:15, 15:12,

16:9, 16:10, 61:22,

72:23, 75:1, 128:17,

135:1, 147:2, 147:3,

169:16, 171:22,

174:7, 211:17,

223:12, 237:14, 240:3

matters [3] - 11:15,

125:14, 168:14

MATTHEW [1] - 2:5

Maximum [1] -

170:15

mayor [1] - 156:16

Mayor [1] - 157:7

McCarthy [1] - 48:1

McGill [1] - 174:2

mean [11] - 21:6,

46:3, 55:12, 114:25,

116:1, 124:17, 129:3,

152:20, 153:21,

191:19, 220:20

meaning [1] - 148:4

meaningful [1] -

215:8

means [9] - 46:11,

115:16, 116:2, 116:3,

116:10, 116:11,

147:20, 165:21, 226:4

measurably [1] -

80:5

measures [1] - 116:9

measuring [1] -

115:19

mechanic [1] - 226:1

mechanical [3] -

77:17, 172:7, 195:21

mechanisms [1] -

200:20

media [1] - 238:7

mediation [1] - 64:7

medical [1] - 97:8

meet [14] - 51:25,

58:6, 58:16, 58:21,

90:21, 97:14, 98:6,

105:15, 164:6,

220:14, 232:18,

242:10, 249:4

meeting [7] - 24:13,

24:19, 91:2, 137:18,

145:3, 145:6, 238:15

meetings [5] - 24:8,

24:11, 24:12, 24:14,

33:23

meets [5] - 98:8,

165:11, 190:22,

210:18, 213:3

megawatt [2] -

91:16, 137:3

megawatts [9] -

90:16, 91:8, 91:14,

91:17, 92:3, 98:25,

146:23, 216:23,

217:19

Member [16] - 36:23,

37:4, 37:17, 38:1,

38:9, 38:24, 41:6,

47:14, 49:12, 49:13,

51:4, 53:4, 56:2,

111:8, 114:7, 126:15

member [7] - 40:25,

78:3, 93:5, 93:8,

146:8, 173:2, 188:15

members [54] - 12:6,

12:18, 12:20, 12:22,

12:24, 13:9, 13:22,

14:9, 14:18, 18:5,

21:8, 51:12, 60:17,

63:3, 66:25, 88:21,

93:4, 94:12, 94:21,

96:1, 96:4, 98:2,

104:17, 104:25,

107:15, 108:13,

108:21, 110:10,

111:20, 118:16,

130:12, 130:24,

131:7, 132:3, 140:6,

142:18, 143:18,

144:3, 144:9, 146:6,

152:1, 152:8, 162:24,

163:4, 163:7, 194:11,

199:23, 206:17,

212:11, 225:20,

228:1, 229:23, 231:25

membership [1] -

152:5

memo [3] - 119:20,

119:23, 120:4

memorandum [1] -

204:11

memorialized [2] -

56:11, 56:15

mention [2] - 230:6,

236:16

mentioned [21] -

18:10, 20:5, 26:19,

27:14, 29:7, 33:20,

38:20, 56:6, 61:2,

74:25, 75:5, 80:22,

83:9, 99:17, 119:3,

165:17, 179:15,

180:6, 184:14,

205:15, 213:15

mentions [1] - 201:4

mercury [3] - 33:13,

74:23, 211:19

mere [1] - 89:12

merely [3] - 45:4,

124:5, 243:12

merits [2] - 57:23,

58:12

Mesa [8] - 92:5, 92:7,

116:16, 116:17,

116:22, 117:6, 118:5,

126:8

mess [2] - 159:21,

162:5

met [5] - 46:1, 50:12,

89:14, 187:3, 240:10

metal [1] - 74:23

meteorological [3] -

83:21, 84:23, 84:24

method [2] - 84:6,

113:14

methodology [4] -

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

21

84:3, 176:18, 177:3,

192:14

methods [1] - 242:7

Mexicans [2] - 25:17,

34:4

MEXICO [2] - 1:1,

250:1

Mexico [124] - 1:16,

1:18, 2:7, 2:9, 2:11,

2:13, 2:16, 2:19, 2:21,

3:2, 3:4, 7:11, 7:12,

8:12, 8:17, 8:23, 9:7,

12:11, 12:16, 13:11,

13:24, 14:8, 14:11,

14:24, 15:22, 16:1,

16:12, 18:12, 21:7,

21:24, 23:1, 23:9,

24:1, 25:16, 26:21,

34:3, 34:10, 34:13,

34:14, 35:6, 37:16,

39:8, 39:15, 39:25,

40:6, 40:12, 40:13,

40:14, 40:17, 42:18,

47:18, 61:23, 68:8,

78:5, 78:6, 91:6,

91:15, 91:18, 95:25,

96:3, 96:6, 97:6,

97:17, 98:1, 98:19,

98:21, 99:22, 100:1,

100:21, 104:14,

104:17, 104:19,

113:19, 116:15,

116:21, 116:24,

117:6, 117:10, 126:7,

127:15, 130:4,

132:16, 132:25,

136:5, 137:13, 140:6,

140:23, 147:10,

152:3, 152:7, 153:1,

153:20, 154:8, 158:2,

158:24, 159:2, 160:8,

161:7, 162:21, 163:1,

163:20, 164:8,

165:21, 166:14,

181:20, 204:21,

208:6, 208:13, 210:1,

210:4, 210:15,

215:25, 216:8, 217:6,

222:21, 225:5,

227:21, 231:13,

239:14, 241:22,

244:6, 244:9, 244:12,

245:1

Mexico's [3] - 12:9,

126:17, 134:16

MICHAEL [1] - 2:4

microphone [2] -

194:22, 202:14

middle [3] - 132:19,

132:21, 154:11
might [13] - 45:15,

64:22, 93:12, 157:20,

179:11, 193:17,

200:18, 200:19,

217:3, 218:9, 219:11,

229:2, 247:15

mildly [1] - 64:10

miles [1] - 116:18

MILLER [1] - 2:14

million [56] - 29:17,

32:5, 69:3, 79:5,

80:17, 80:18, 84:23,

89:13, 90:5, 90:25,

99:13, 108:13,

111:13, 112:1, 113:4,

113:21, 135:8,

135:17, 135:25,

138:12, 142:19,

145:13, 148:5, 151:2,

151:15, 159:13,

161:19, 180:20,

180:21, 182:4, 182:5,

182:7, 182:8, 182:12,

182:13, 184:4, 184:5,

189:12, 198:7,

198:13, 199:5, 199:7,

201:2, 201:4, 201:5,

201:14, 210:12,

210:13, 233:5, 233:6,

233:7

millions [1] - 161:17

mind [7] - 36:25,

80:25, 92:5, 103:17,

144:9, 148:17, 153:7

mindful [1] - 53:14

mine [7] - 93:15,

94:17, 132:20,

133:17, 133:24,

134:24, 181:4

Mine [4] - 96:20,

96:23, 225:18, 225:21

mines [3] - 94:12,

97:7, 144:2

minimal [1] - 99:18

minimize [2] - 79:20,

108:15

minimizes [3] - 99:8,

99:16, 212:5

mining [2] - 96:14,

111:7

Minnesota [3] -

195:22, 195:23, 208:7

minus [1] - 170:13

minute [2] - 147:12,

147:22

minutes [2] - 13:3,

149:2

missed [6] - 45:23,

57:4, 57:8, 58:1,

166:14, 166:15

missing [3] - 45:14,

45:16, 57:19

mission [1] - 105:4

Missouri [1] - 172:13

mistake [2] - 123:21,

123:25

misunderstood [1] -

121:3

mitigate [1] - 203:4

mitigates [2] - 109:1,

164:7

mitigating [1] -

133:11

mitigation [1] -

142:12

mix [1] - 154:16

mixed [1] - 133:4

mixes [1] - 154:12

model [10] - 83:19,

115:17, 115:20,

115:22, 115:24,

125:6, 125:11, 127:2,

178:20

modeled [2] - 84:22,

84:24

modeling [43] -

69:24, 81:22, 81:24,

82:11, 82:14, 82:25,

83:16, 83:18, 83:20,

83:22, 83:25, 84:15,

85:7, 98:6, 102:1,

115:18, 116:2,

120:14, 120:16,

120:18, 125:13,

125:23, 126:23,

127:3, 127:6, 127:7,

127:11, 168:8, 169:1,

173:17, 175:9,

175:14, 176:13,

176:14, 176:20,

177:6, 177:8, 177:14,

178:9

models [3] - 125:6,

125:8, 125:9

modification [4] -

112:3, 112:6, 198:22,

237:4

modifications [2] -

89:21, 124:12

modified [2] - 124:2,

176:24

modify [1] - 164:20

modifying [1] - 91:1

moment [2] - 15:4,

109:23

money [6] - 37:24,

93:20, 93:24, 94:6,

159:6, 244:17

monitored [2] -

111:14, 112:25

monitoring [2] -

96:21, 160:25

monoxide [1] -

211:17

month [2] - 48:25

month-by-month [1]

- 48:25

months [7] - 24:23,

52:4, 113:20, 113:22,

123:11, 164:3, 200:14

Montreal [1] - 174:3

morning [18] - 10:16,

18:5, 18:8, 19:3,

28:19, 47:17, 60:14,

60:17, 77:6, 81:18,

97:11, 97:19, 103:24,

104:11, 138:14,

155:12, 156:20, 243:4

MORROW [9] - 2:5,

115:9, 115:11,

223:15, 227:18,

246:10, 246:13,

246:16, 246:24

most [24] - 19:7,

25:3, 29:1, 56:1,

68:17, 73:25, 89:17,

96:25, 101:4, 102:2,

102:9, 133:16,

133:19, 143:19,

148:6, 149:2, 158:1,

159:5, 159:6, 161:2,

172:10, 176:3, 176:6

mostly [2] - 133:23,

184:12

Mother [1] - 103:5

motion [11] - 12:12,

12:13, 12:15, 45:9,

196:25, 238:18,

239:3, 246:9, 246:19,

246:21, 248:19

motivated [1] - 26:25

mouth [1] - 181:4

move [23] - 23:10,

25:17, 36:8, 36:9,

42:19, 42:25, 50:20,

55:1, 55:21, 81:11,

86:15, 135:14, 171:2,

174:23, 196:22,

209:15, 226:18,

230:7, 230:20,

238:20, 239:8,

246:10, 248:20

moved [3] - 43:1,

50:22, 208:8

moving [12] - 10:1,

24:9, 42:16, 43:5,

43:6, 44:24, 48:14,

55:13, 173:1, 186:25,

199:8, 246:12

MR [448] - 10:8,

10:11, 10:13, 10:14,

10:15, 13:8, 13:18,

13:21, 14:7, 14:9,

14:15, 14:17, 17:6,

17:10, 17:11, 17:15,

17:20, 17:22, 18:5,

36:23, 36:24, 37:4,

37:6, 37:7, 37:8,

37:10, 37:11, 37:14,

37:15, 37:17, 37:23,

38:1, 38:7, 38:9,

38:21, 38:24, 40:5,

40:23, 40:24, 40:25,

41:6, 43:25, 44:22,

45:20, 46:2, 47:14,

49:3, 49:8, 49:11,

49:23, 50:16, 51:2,

51:4, 51:7, 51:8,

54:19, 56:1, 56:7,

57:1, 57:7, 57:9,

57:10, 59:13, 59:17,

59:18, 59:20, 59:21,

59:25, 60:3, 60:5,

60:7, 60:10, 60:13,

63:2, 63:7, 63:8,

63:13, 63:16, 63:17,

63:18, 63:20, 65:16,

65:20, 66:4, 66:6,

66:7, 66:9, 66:17,

66:19, 66:24, 67:8,

70:6, 70:8, 70:9,

76:24, 76:25, 77:5,

81:17, 86:19, 86:21,

86:22, 87:1, 87:8,

87:9, 87:12, 87:24,

87:25, 88:5, 88:10,

88:18, 92:20, 93:2,

95:16, 95:23, 100:5,

100:12, 103:21,

106:20, 107:2, 109:9,

109:12, 109:17,

109:22, 110:5,

110:18, 110:22,

110:24, 110:25,

111:4, 111:8, 111:11,

111:19, 112:14,

112:17, 112:24,

113:2, 113:10,

113:12, 113:17,

114:7, 114:19, 115:2,

115:3, 115:5, 115:6,

115:9, 115:10,

115:11, 115:12,

115:13, 116:13,

116:17, 116:20,

117:1, 117:4, 117:8,

117:12, 117:13,

117:17, 118:1, 118:5,

118:9, 118:12,

118:13, 118:14,

118:18, 119:2, 119:6,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

22

119:9, 119:15,

119:19, 120:11,

120:22, 120:24,

121:10, 121:20,

122:9, 122:25, 123:9,

123:11, 123:12,

123:14, 123:15,

123:16, 123:18,

123:19, 123:21,

123:22, 123:24,

124:1, 124:13,

124:16, 124:20,

125:3, 125:16,

125:18, 125:19,

125:20, 125:24,

126:2, 126:3, 126:4,

126:15, 127:13,

128:1, 128:4, 128:5,

128:6, 128:7, 128:9,

128:10, 128:12,

128:13, 128:15,

128:16, 128:18,

128:20, 129:1, 129:2,

129:6, 129:14,

129:17, 129:21,

130:1, 130:9, 130:11,

130:16, 130:17,

130:18, 131:2, 131:4,

131:5, 131:11,

131:15, 131:16,

131:25, 138:22,

138:24, 139:3, 139:8,

139:17, 140:1, 143:4,

143:11, 145:22,

148:24, 149:2, 149:3,

149:8, 149:9, 151:20,

151:25, 154:25,

155:7, 157:8, 157:15,

158:16, 158:23,

162:10, 162:12,

162:13, 162:19,

162:23, 167:10,

167:16, 167:17,

167:19, 167:21,

167:23, 168:1, 168:3,

168:9, 168:11,

168:12, 168:15,

169:13, 169:17,

169:18, 169:20,

169:21, 169:23,

170:22, 171:1, 171:2,

171:8, 171:13,

171:20, 171:24,

172:3, 172:14,

172:17, 172:22,

173:1, 173:5, 173:7,

173:9, 173:12,

173:14, 173:18,

173:19, 173:21,

173:24, 174:6, 174:9,

174:10, 174:12,
174:14, 174:15,

174:18, 174:21,

174:22, 175:1, 175:3,

175:6, 179:9, 179:14,

180:1, 180:5, 182:20,

184:20, 184:23,

185:3, 185:7, 185:8,

185:9, 185:10,

185:15, 185:16,

185:23, 185:24,

185:25, 187:10,

187:13, 188:13,

188:14, 188:16,

189:15, 190:15,

191:18, 191:25,

192:13, 192:15,

192:23, 193:6,

193:13, 193:25,

194:4, 194:7, 194:8,

194:9, 194:11,

194:13, 194:20,

195:5, 196:22,

196:25, 197:2,

199:23, 200:10,

200:22, 201:7, 201:8,

201:13, 201:14,

201:19, 201:20,

201:24, 202:2, 202:6,

202:7, 202:8, 202:10,

206:16, 206:21,

207:5, 209:14,

209:16, 209:19,

212:9, 212:11,

212:14, 212:15,

212:16, 212:18,

213:2, 213:5, 213:6,

213:11, 213:24,

214:7, 214:9, 214:10,

214:12, 214:19,

214:21, 214:22,

214:24, 215:10,

215:12, 215:13,

215:14, 215:16,

219:18, 219:19,

221:7, 222:7, 223:3,

223:4, 223:8, 223:13,

223:15, 223:16,

223:18, 223:22,

223:23, 223:24,

224:5, 224:17, 227:3,

227:18, 229:18,

229:22, 230:21,

230:24, 236:8,

236:15, 236:18,

236:21, 236:22,

236:23, 236:24,

238:4, 238:7, 238:9,

239:3, 239:25,

242:16, 244:3, 244:5,

245:7, 246:10,

246:13, 246:16,

246:24, 246:25,

247:25, 248:7, 249:8

MRS [1] - 139:16

MS [81] - 10:1, 41:2,

43:23, 44:19, 45:13,

45:22, 47:12, 48:18,

49:7, 49:9, 49:22,

50:15, 50:23, 51:3,

51:5, 54:3, 55:24,

87:11, 104:9, 109:11,

109:13, 110:13,

110:19, 110:23,

115:8, 117:16,

118:25, 119:5, 119:8,

119:13, 119:18,

120:6, 120:21,

124:11, 124:14,

124:19, 130:22,

131:3, 146:5, 150:6,

171:6, 171:10,

171:15, 171:23,

172:2, 172:6, 172:16,

172:21, 172:25,

182:23, 190:14,

190:16, 192:11,

192:14, 193:8,

193:22, 194:3, 213:8,

227:10, 227:14,

227:19, 236:9,

236:16, 236:20,

238:17, 239:4, 239:7,

240:12, 244:1, 244:4,

245:5, 246:7, 246:11,

246:15, 246:19,

247:1, 247:4, 248:4,

248:16, 249:9, 249:12

MS0805 [1] - 2:20

multiple [2] - 53:12,

168:17

multiple-part [1] -

168:17

multiply [1] - 183:7

must [6] - 70:16,

140:13, 187:22,

200:6, 204:15

mutton [1] - 138:19

N

N-4050 [1] - 2:10

Nagpur [1] - 173:25

nail [1] - 159:11

name [48] - 10:17,

11:20, 13:10, 14:10,

18:21, 67:9, 77:7,

77:8, 81:19, 81:20,

88:17, 93:1, 93:2,

95:21, 95:23, 100:10,

100:12, 104:8, 104:9,

107:1, 107:3, 131:24,

132:5, 139:25, 140:3,

143:10, 143:11,

143:15, 146:7, 150:5,

152:2, 155:5, 157:13,

158:21, 158:23,

167:18, 171:4, 173:3,

173:5, 195:6, 195:8,

207:7, 207:8, 224:16,

224:17, 224:20,

227:9, 227:11

narrow [2] - 165:9,

232:5

nation [3] - 136:9,

137:23, 137:24

Nation [27] - 23:25,

26:8, 32:6, 34:23,

93:21, 102:14, 131:8,

131:18, 132:6,

132:15, 133:15,

134:1, 134:2, 135:10,

136:5, 137:16, 139:5,

140:11, 142:3,

142:18, 142:19,

143:23, 145:12,

186:24, 225:7, 225:9,

231:25

nation's [1] - 105:5

National [11] - 7:20,

37:23, 38:5, 75:21,

116:22, 119:20,

119:23, 120:1, 126:8,

188:18, 191:12

national [5] - 24:4,

28:24, 29:23, 91:19,

127:21

nationally [1] -

141:18

Native [3] - 133:16,

133:19, 225:20

natural [29] - 26:9,

29:22, 30:7, 32:4,

34:17, 84:20, 90:18,

90:20, 95:8, 98:15,

98:16, 98:20, 98:23,

99:1, 99:3, 99:5,

99:18, 99:21, 99:23,

100:1, 103:13, 108:9,

137:3, 137:5, 142:14,

146:21, 151:9,

203:20, 225:13

naturally [1] - 107:8

nature [5] - 16:24,

52:13, 53:2, 65:10,

70:1

Navajo [54] - 23:25,

26:7, 32:6, 34:23,

93:21, 102:14,

102:17, 107:11,

108:13, 108:19,

108:20, 109:2, 131:8,

131:18, 132:6,

132:15, 132:20,

133:14, 133:17,

133:19, 133:23,

133:25, 134:2, 134:5,

134:16, 135:10,

136:5, 137:16,

137:25, 138:19,

139:4, 140:6, 140:9,

140:10, 140:14,

142:1, 142:3, 142:18,

142:19, 143:18,

143:22, 143:25,

144:25, 145:12,

145:14, 186:23,

225:1, 225:7, 225:9,

225:19, 225:20,

225:22, 225:24,

231:24

Navajos [1] - 135:25

near [3] - 107:14,

143:24, 158:8

nearby [1] - 142:1

nearest [1] - 116:17

nearly [2] - 89:20,

190:10

necessarily [2] -

185:17, 192:21

necessary [12] -

11:11, 11:17, 65:4,

112:7, 164:5, 186:25,

187:7, 222:10,

226:17, 228:20,

235:19, 237:11

Necessity [1] - 217:5

need [19] - 19:14,

41:19, 43:13, 51:14,

53:13, 66:18, 66:21,

113:12, 129:10,

136:12, 145:4,

147:13, 150:22,

156:14, 158:11,

159:8, 160:8, 227:13

needed [4] - 13:1,

124:22, 136:25,

166:23

needle [1] - 127:18

needs [8] - 51:25,

52:21, 87:18, 109:23,

136:12, 165:11,

200:13

negative [3] - 85:23,

85:25, 141:22

negotiated [2] -

64:20, 94:19

negotiating [4] -

49:24, 51:15, 53:5,

53:6

negotiations [9] -

46:5, 52:4, 60:24,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

23

63:25, 78:4, 121:22,

123:4, 164:3, 164:4

neighbor[2] -

126:21, 140:20

neighboring [3] -

140:5, 143:20, 224:25

neighbors [3] -

107:6, 161:5

Nenahnezad [4] -

143:16, 143:17,

144:19, 145:18

nervous [1] - 55:9

Nevada [1] - 170:20

never [4] - 53:7,

91:2, 148:17, 228:3

NEW [2] - 1:1, 250:1

new [34] - 28:7, 42:7,

42:9, 45:19, 45:25,

47:25, 61:6, 62:13,

71:17, 72:6, 80:13,

91:21, 99:7, 99:19,

99:20, 101:5, 108:8,

112:25, 113:8,

114:15, 119:11,

121:8, 122:5, 125:22,

135:14, 137:15,

142:14, 145:15,

146:21, 155:10,

175:12, 199:18, 216:9

New [132] - 1:16,

1:18, 2:7, 2:9, 2:11,

2:13, 2:16, 2:19, 2:21,

3:2, 3:4, 7:11, 7:12,

8:12, 8:17, 8:23, 9:7,

12:9, 12:11, 12:16,

13:11, 13:24, 14:8,

14:11, 14:23, 15:22,

16:1, 16:12, 18:11,

21:7, 21:23, 23:1,

23:9, 23:25, 25:16,

25:17, 26:21, 34:3,

34:4, 34:10, 34:13,

34:14, 35:6, 37:16,

39:8, 39:14, 39:24,

40:6, 40:11, 40:13,

40:14, 40:17, 42:18,

47:18, 61:23, 68:8,

78:5, 78:6, 91:5,

91:15, 91:18, 95:25,

96:3, 96:6, 97:5,

97:17, 98:1, 98:18,

98:21, 99:22, 100:1,

100:21, 104:14,

104:17, 104:19,

113:19, 116:15,

116:21, 116:24,

117:6, 117:10, 126:7,

126:17, 127:15,

130:4, 132:15,

132:24, 134:16,
136:5, 137:13, 140:5,

140:22, 146:13,

147:10, 152:3, 152:7,

153:1, 153:20, 154:8,

158:2, 158:24, 159:2,

160:8, 161:7, 162:21,

163:1, 163:20, 164:8,

165:21, 166:14,

175:13, 181:20,

204:20, 208:6,

208:13, 209:25,

210:3, 210:15,

215:25, 216:7, 217:6,

222:21, 225:5,

227:21, 231:13,

239:14, 241:21,

244:6, 244:9, 244:12,

245:1

news [1] - 153:19

newspaper [1] -

160:22

next [13] - 41:13,

105:20, 106:4, 108:6,

126:16, 126:25,

128:24, 154:15,

196:10, 206:23,

213:1, 216:15, 218:9

NEZ [5] - 5:10,

139:18, 139:20,

140:1, 140:3

Nez [2] - 140:3

night [1] - 93:13

nine [2] - 156:4,

156:10

nitrogen [2] - 10:5,

15:10

nitrous [1] - 210:14

NMAC [2] - 11:5,

76:11

NMED [33] - 7:3, 8:3,

43:1, 68:11, 68:14,

69:7, 75:24, 76:2,

76:14, 86:24, 87:4,

87:7, 90:2, 110:8,

119:21, 121:23,

122:5, 154:3, 166:11,

175:16, 175:24,

182:15, 193:16,

194:5, 205:15,

215:11, 219:23,

230:7, 230:22,

242:21, 243:11

NMED's [1] - 19:18

NMPRC [2] - 166:3,

221:6

NMSA [1] - 241:22

NMUSA [1] - 106:13

no-win [1] - 153:3

nonair [5] - 71:7,

72:16, 175:18,

233:11, 241:15

nonbinding [2] -

90:3, 240:22

noncatalytic [5] -

19:23, 68:22, 140:24,

142:11, 211:1

none [6] - 78:17,

130:14, 153:12,

160:19, 166:20,

238:12

nonetheless [1] -

23:10

nonmercury [1] -

74:23

nonregulatory [2] -

125:5, 125:9

nonselective [1] -

119:9

nonsense [1] -

161:22

nontechnical [5] -

12:14, 16:24, 17:8,

17:18, 18:18

noon [1] - 66:18

NORMAN [4] - 5:12,

139:18, 143:5, 143:12

Norman [2] - 143:11,

143:15

north [1] - 116:18

North [1] - 38:11

northeastern [1] -

133:14

Northern [2] -

196:15, 225:5

Northwest [4] - 2:15,

97:5, 98:18, 99:22

Northwestern [1] -

97:17

notably [3] - 23:3,

25:3, 29:2

NOTARY [1] - 250:19

note [5] - 20:21,

169:9, 182:9, 184:8,

186:1

noted [2] - 132:25,

188:18

nothing [8] - 10:14,

146:18, 146:25,

147:20, 159:10,

160:14, 213:6, 220:23

notice [9] - 12:7,

12:9, 44:13, 76:9,

169:16, 230:13,

230:17, 231:7, 249:1

noticeable [1] -

89:22

noticed [1] - 215:19

notices [2] - 7:16,

76:13

noticing [1] - 44:9

noting [1] - 231:12

notwithstanding [1]

- 186:21

November [1] - 15:5

NOx [40] - 15:7, 15:9,

15:10, 15:17, 15:22,

16:3, 19:21, 20:10,

70:10, 72:20, 74:1,

74:16, 77:22, 79:4,

79:9, 79:16, 79:20,

79:25, 80:5, 80:14,

80:16, 82:13, 84:10,

85:15, 103:1, 118:19,

118:23, 119:1,

125:15, 130:25,

136:17, 136:21,

165:15, 172:12,

180:20, 183:5,

183:11, 199:1, 211:3

Nuclear [1] - 146:23

null [1] - 123:23

number [34] - 10:1,

19:1, 29:1, 30:10,

65:23, 74:9, 84:9,

85:6, 111:5, 116:9,

118:10, 131:1, 136:4,

154:18, 154:19,

166:3, 170:3, 170:9,

178:7, 183:12,

189:13, 189:14,

190:4, 191:9, 200:11,

200:12, 200:14,

201:17, 215:1, 215:3,

228:9, 228:10, 233:7,

238:20

Number [1] - 250:20

numbers [21] -

114:25, 116:6, 116:7,

116:15, 116:21,

118:8, 184:15,

184:18, 191:11,

191:17, 197:24,

198:2, 198:3, 198:6,

198:14, 201:11,

201:21, 211:14,

219:2, 219:3, 233:16

numerous [6] - 52:4,

69:22, 73:23, 141:20,

168:21, 231:25

O

O&M [2] - 181:24

o'clock [1] - 66:8

O-L-S-O-N [1] -

195:8

OAPQS [1] - 190:20

oath [11] - 11:12,

56:18, 69:15, 78:19,

83:6, 170:25, 174:20,

185:8, 186:2, 196:20,

209:12

Obama's [1] - 105:17

object [3] - 62:10,

221:1, 221:2

objection [1] - 45:3

objections [4] - 43:3,

86:19, 86:21, 86:22

objective [1] - 91:3

obligated [1] - 20:25

obligations [1] -

126:17

observation [2] -

127:23, 188:23

observed [1] -

188:22

observer [2] - 75:16,

177:13

obtain [3] - 11:22,

108:21, 235:20

obtained [1] - 35:15

obtaining [1] - 124:1

obviously [2] -

49:17, 218:15

occasions [1] - 19:2

occupied [1] - 48:8

occur [3] - 52:21,

53:13, 71:1

occurred [2] - 20:2,

247:24

occurring [1] - 28:21

OF [5] - 1:1, 1:4,

1:12, 250:1, 250:3

offer [3] - 132:7,

132:11, 135:24

offered [1] - 151:8

offering [1] - 135:13

offers [1] - 99:11

Office [5] - 2:9, 3:4,

23:4, 38:23, 180:12

office [2] - 11:24,

154:2

officer [1] - 250:6

Officer [28] - 10:19,

13:8, 13:21, 14:17,

51:7, 51:11, 54:19,

56:7, 57:7, 63:13,

66:24, 88:20, 111:19,

115:14, 121:10,

122:9, 123:9, 128:4,

130:18, 130:23,

131:6, 139:3, 146:6,

152:1, 174:22,

209:14, 223:9, 229:22

Offices [1] - 209:8

offset [2] - 34:19,

151:8

Oil [4] - 95:25, 98:1,

98:21, 100:1

oil [5] - 96:2, 97:6,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

24

98:20, 147:18, 168:6

oil-fired [1] - 168:6

Oklahoma [5] -

38:10, 38:15, 38:17,

52:16, 170:21

older [1] - 96:24

OLSON [9] - 6:7,

194:18, 195:1,

200:10, 201:7,

201:13, 201:19,

201:24, 214:24

Olson [11] - 8:15,

14:2, 194:14, 194:21,

194:22, 195:8, 197:2,

199:21, 202:11,

214:20, 216:14

omission [1] - 170:4

once [13] - 81:7,

84:2, 104:23, 112:9,

112:11, 112:22,

113:17, 114:12,

163:15, 176:20,

212:24, 237:12, 244:7

one [99] - 16:21,

21:17, 26:22, 30:1,

35:10, 38:7, 38:12,

40:7, 40:9, 46:14,

47:23, 48:11, 48:19,

49:12, 49:20, 49:23,

50:10, 57:23, 58:7,

66:10, 66:12, 75:14,

80:5, 82:24, 83:2,

84:6, 84:25, 85:3,

87:15, 88:10, 101:6,

103:8, 103:11,

103:22, 107:13,

111:12, 116:2,

116:19, 117:2,

117:22, 125:4, 126:2,

127:14, 127:15,

130:19, 132:18,

134:15, 139:2, 144:8,

148:19, 150:17,

154:7, 159:1, 159:19,

160:6, 162:5, 164:5,

165:9, 166:12,

174:12, 176:8, 177:9,

177:11, 178:4,

179:22, 180:18,

180:24, 181:4,

181:10, 185:12,

187:18, 188:5,

189:16, 192:1,

199:25, 204:25,

210:1, 210:14,

211:12, 211:25,

212:15, 214:25,

216:25, 220:7,

220:25, 223:15,

226:2, 228:9, 232:23,
233:2, 233:3, 234:15,

234:22, 241:10,

241:14, 241:25,

247:16

one-seventh [1] -

211:12

ones [1] - 37:9

ongoing [4] - 30:2,

121:12, 140:19, 169:4

onset [1] - 107:23

open [7] - 59:16,

59:17, 87:4, 108:3,

226:3, 226:16, 238:11

opened [1] - 162:1

opening [3] - 10:11,

163:2, 167:5

operate [3] - 58:10,

72:13, 213:22

operating [6] -

53:12, 94:9, 104:17,

122:19, 180:16,

218:19

operation [7] - 71:6,

71:8, 104:15, 129:15,

143:20, 195:15,

245:19

operational [2] -

30:18, 65:2

operations [3] -

129:4, 156:2, 208:13

operator [3] -

141:16, 166:21, 210:5

operators [1] - 189:2

opinion [9] - 26:15,

28:12, 36:13, 54:7,

97:19, 182:15,

184:16, 220:18,

245:18

opinions [2] - 25:14,

25:15

opportunities [4] -

12:21, 25:25, 108:24,

144:25

opportunity [24] -

11:6, 14:14, 23:21,

24:21, 40:16, 55:21,

60:19, 65:3, 98:15,

99:25, 100:3, 107:15,

108:9, 132:7, 135:10,

141:13, 142:15,

150:8, 151:18,

154:17, 154:23,

157:19, 224:10, 225:3

oppose [1] - 42:22

opposed [4] - 239:7,

243:19, 247:4, 249:12

optimal [2] - 79:18,

192:18

option [6] - 30:25,

156:19, 156:21,

158:5, 217:18, 217:19

options [5] - 92:10,

99:13, 178:25, 205:1,

220:8

oral [4] - 121:3,

204:10, 242:10, 249:4

Order [2] - 8:6, 247:8

order [18] - 13:4,

19:14, 26:2, 26:13,

41:9, 41:17, 43:13,

44:15, 44:24, 46:5,

46:7, 64:22, 140:12,

153:8, 154:21,

198:13, 221:20,

222:15

ordered [2] - 27:5,

153:9

orders [1] - 11:10

organic [2] - 74:22,

211:18

organization [2] -

35:10, 38:6

organizations [2] -

34:24, 56:5

original [12] - 21:17,

33:19, 68:3, 72:18,

90:13, 103:3, 140:21,

177:17, 183:16,

184:5, 192:25, 214:3

originally [1] - 193:1

otherwise [2] -

240:5, 240:6

ourselves [4] -

29:20, 39:13, 147:15,

206:2

outages [2] - 93:12,

93:14

outcome [11] - 27:4,

27:24, 42:11, 43:19,

44:12, 46:6, 53:16,

56:24, 152:21, 210:7,

211:5

outcomes [1] - 43:10

outlet [1] - 181:12

outline [1] - 43:4

outlined [3] - 41:2,

49:1, 164:11

outlining [1] - 243:22

outperform [1] -

85:24

output [1] - 206:8

outreach [1] - 78:2

outside [6] - 14:3,

44:17, 52:24, 111:9,

163:6, 199:25

outstanding [2] -

242:22, 243:22

overall [5] - 80:6,

129:4, 178:23,

179:16, 246:4

overestimated [1] -

188:19

overestimating [1] -

188:24

overlooked [1] - 34:6

oversaw [3] -

168:25, 179:22,

179:24

oversight [2] -

171:16, 230:9

overview [7] - 175:4,

175:7, 180:3, 182:22,

197:3, 197:7, 209:21

own [10] - 23:21,

36:25, 39:13, 44:7,

57:21, 108:12, 120:9,

140:14, 188:23, 189:7

owned [2] - 200:4,

210:1

owner [1] - 210:5

owners [13] - 29:5,

29:10, 29:18, 30:6,

30:10, 30:13, 101:20,

156:4, 156:10,

197:11, 200:11,

200:12, 210:10

owners' [1] - 166:5

ownership [4] -

197:12, 200:3,

200:19, 213:21

oxides [3] - 10:5,

15:10, 210:14

P

p.m [5] - 109:21,

162:17, 162:18,

224:3, 224:4

PA [2] - 2:14, 136:22

package [1] - 190:25

pads [1] - 99:8

PAGE [3] - 4:2, 5:2,

6:2

page [37] - 49:8,

49:9, 83:1, 83:3,

114:22, 115:2,

115:12, 120:3, 120:4,

128:16, 128:19,

128:21, 169:24,

170:1, 170:3, 170:7,

170:9, 170:11,

170:14, 170:19,

174:13, 183:25,

188:2, 196:6, 196:10,

200:2, 200:25, 201:9,

204:4, 204:14, 209:1,

209:3, 209:6, 211:10,

213:24, 214:12,

215:19

pager [1] - 12:4

pages [4] - 52:17,

53:8, 53:9

paid [1] - 134:1

Palo [1] - 146:22

panel [9] - 17:17,

76:23, 109:25,

130:13, 173:2,

179:12, 194:16,

219:10

panels [1] - 92:2

paper [1] - 133:8

paperwork [1] -

124:5

parade [1] - 138:11

paragraph [19] -

48:21, 80:19, 170:1,

170:2, 174:15, 201:3,

201:10, 201:22,

203:10, 203:15,

203:16, 222:8,

222:16, 222:21,

247:16, 247:21,

248:23, 248:25, 249:1

paragraphs [3] -

247:14, 248:5, 249:2

parameters [3] -

83:23, 180:16, 180:17

Park [20] - 7:20,

37:23, 75:21, 75:25,

76:4, 83:10, 116:23,

119:20, 119:23,

120:1, 120:13,

120:19, 124:4, 126:8,

188:18, 189:24,

190:1, 190:10,

190:12, 191:12

Park's [1] - 38:5

parking [2] - 97:10,

138:16

parks [1] - 127:21

Part [1] - 7:7

part [36] - 16:6,

20:20, 40:21, 43:6,

61:2, 68:9, 79:14,

79:15, 79:22, 83:15,

102:17, 112:4,

115:17, 117:21,

123:2, 126:15, 127:3,

127:16, 155:18,

155:19, 157:5, 158:6,

159:7, 168:17, 172:1,

175:25, 176:10,

176:19, 193:1,

200:18, 204:15,

207:21, 210:5,

213:22, 213:23,

219:23

partial [2] - 186:9

partially [3] - 185:25,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

25

200:4, 203:22

participate [4] -

24:21, 39:11, 41:15,

53:16

participated [4] -

47:6, 60:23, 168:17,

168:20

participating [3] -

39:19, 45:6, 46:9

participation [1] -

163:4

particular[2] - 30:9,

242:11

particularly [4] -

71:17, 98:20, 147:3,

222:16

particulars [1] -

189:9

particulate [7] -

15:12, 16:9, 16:10,

72:23, 75:1, 125:14,

211:17

particulates [1] -

33:14

parties [14] - 13:20,

44:14, 64:7, 95:7,

102:12, 186:9, 188:4,

188:5, 204:2, 224:1,

240:19, 241:8,

250:14, 250:16

Partnership [2] -

126:23, 127:3

parts [1] - 79:13

pass [2] - 101:20,

166:6

past [7] - 18:24,

19:4, 20:23, 20:24,

21:11, 48:22, 140:17

paste [2] - 54:9,

54:16

path [12] - 26:15,

26:18, 31:4, 32:13,

34:11, 35:5, 47:5,

53:18, 54:1, 55:8,

97:22

pay [4] - 92:16,

92:17, 93:21, 147:4

paycheck [1] - 144:8

paying [2] - 90:12,

146:8

payments [1] -

186:23

PEACOCK [49] - 2:3,

10:1, 41:2, 43:23,

44:19, 45:13, 45:22,

47:12, 48:18, 49:7,

49:9, 49:22, 50:15,

50:23, 51:3, 51:5,

54:3, 55:24, 87:11,

109:11, 109:13,
110:13, 110:19,

110:23, 115:8, 193:8,

193:22, 194:3, 213:8,

236:9, 236:16,

236:20, 238:17,

239:4, 239:7, 240:12,

244:1, 244:4, 245:5,

246:7, 246:11,

246:15, 246:19,

247:1, 247:4, 248:4,

248:16, 249:9, 249:12

Peacock [8] - 41:1,

41:6, 47:14, 49:13,

51:4, 53:5, 56:2

peaking [5] - 32:3,

137:4, 147:9, 151:9,

166:1

pending [2] - 15:24,

186:8

people [45] - 35:23,

40:11, 40:17, 46:8,

47:19, 56:4, 65:23,

66:12, 87:15, 95:12,

101:13, 101:22,

107:11, 108:24,

108:25, 109:2, 109:5,

132:20, 132:21,

134:6, 134:9, 135:23,

137:25, 138:25,

143:25, 144:3,

144:25, 147:16,

158:25, 159:3,

159:16, 159:19,

160:7, 160:24, 161:2,

161:13, 163:24,

214:14, 214:17,

224:6, 224:23,

225:12, 244:6, 244:25

per [35] - 69:2, 74:5,

74:6, 79:5, 80:17,

90:12, 91:15, 91:18,

91:23, 92:15, 111:13,

112:1, 113:4, 118:10,

119:16, 130:25,

131:1, 148:5, 170:16,

170:17, 176:2,

178:14, 178:18,

180:20, 180:21,

183:12, 183:19,

183:22, 184:4,

196:11, 196:13,

199:5, 199:7, 211:11

percent [42] - 34:5,

74:8, 74:11, 74:12,

74:14, 74:21, 74:23,

74:24, 75:1, 75:2,

96:2, 99:6, 113:6,

113:7, 113:16,

116:15, 126:13,

126:14, 133:16,

133:18, 150:16,

161:22, 177:10,

177:12, 177:23,

177:24, 181:1, 181:2,

190:6, 211:16,

211:17, 211:18,

211:19, 211:20,

211:24, 213:14,

225:10, 225:19,

225:21, 225:22

percentage [3] -

34:4, 118:4, 126:12

percentile [6] - 84:7,

84:19, 114:25,

115:16, 116:2, 118:6

perceptible [3] -

33:7, 75:16, 177:12

perfect [2] - 11:21,

26:14

perfectly [1] - 146:19

perform [1] - 85:10

performance [16] -

78:22, 78:25, 79:7,

79:14, 79:24, 80:2,

80:6, 80:11, 80:12,

80:15, 114:10,

114:13, 120:9,

128:21, 128:22,

205:21

performed [5] -

70:11, 83:19, 84:16,

125:5, 175:7

perhaps [7] - 49:20,

65:9, 127:6, 198:17,

221:7, 221:24, 222:4

period [12] - 80:11,

80:13, 80:15, 89:3,

112:12, 112:16,

112:23, 113:18,

113:23, 113:25,

114:13, 178:2

periods [2] - 178:1,

178:3

permanent [1] -

148:4

permission [1] -

248:1

permit [25] - 64:25,

65:7, 81:6, 112:2,

112:5, 112:11,

112:19, 112:21,

112:22, 113:7, 113:9,

114:14, 121:8,

121:13, 121:14,

121:17, 122:6,

122:19, 122:20,

122:24, 124:2, 124:9,

175:13, 177:3

permit's [1] - 121:16

permits [1] - 248:14

permitted [3] -

118:22, 118:24, 119:1

permitting [3] - 81:1,

96:21, 122:13

Permitting [2] -

67:14, 80:23

person [4] - 11:14,

89:23, 130:2, 151:3

personal [3] -

153:22, 157:21,

188:23

personally [7] - 95:5,

100:21, 144:13,

155:13, 188:21,

226:13, 250:10

persons [2] - 11:7,

11:13

perspective [12] -

33:17, 50:17, 51:18,

51:20, 140:18, 165:4,

216:3, 221:13,

237:10, 242:24, 243:9

perspectives [1] -

236:3

pertaining [1] -

168:14

Peter [2] - 14:10,

152:2

PETER [4] - 3:3,

5:18, 149:19, 151:21

petition [7] - 10:24,

12:7, 121:6, 231:5,

239:10, 243:21,

243:24

Petition [3] - 8:13,

8:18, 9:7

pgouldlaw@gmail.

com [1] - 3:5

phase [2] - 80:8,

80:10

PhD [2] - 82:2, 174:2

philosophical [1] -

243:18

phone [1] - 12:4

phrase [1] - 57:2

physical [2] - 124:7,

124:22

physics [1] - 77:16

piece [2] - 32:18,

176:8

pieces [1] - 43:6

Pinto [1] - 229:10

PIOCHE [4] - 4:24,

104:1, 106:21, 107:2

Pioche [1] - 107:3

pipeline [6] - 32:4,

61:5, 61:6, 99:20,

151:10, 217:10

place [14] - 41:25,

46:25, 55:7, 91:10,

101:2, 110:7, 121:22,

124:8, 171:9, 172:23,

173:8, 195:9, 230:17,

244:17

places [2] - 69:22,

82:24

plain [1] - 58:13

plan [114] - 13:16,

16:16, 16:17, 17:3,

18:8, 19:18, 19:21,

19:24, 19:25, 20:5,

20:9, 20:11, 20:14,

21:9, 21:15, 22:2,

22:17, 22:24, 23:18,

23:20, 23:21, 25:17,

26:21, 27:17, 28:9,

32:23, 34:14, 35:4,

35:7, 35:8, 35:10,

35:13, 35:15, 36:18,

37:20, 42:16, 43:14,

48:14, 53:19, 53:20,

53:23, 53:24, 58:18,

61:10, 65:11, 66:2,

66:10, 81:4, 92:11,

94:15, 95:13, 99:10,

100:24, 101:19,

102:5, 105:6, 105:12,

106:1, 106:8, 106:9,

106:14, 108:5,

108:16, 132:11,

135:9, 136:15,

136:20, 136:21,

136:24, 137:2, 137:6,

137:8, 137:13,

137:14, 137:15,

137:18, 138:3,

140:25, 146:19,

148:21, 150:14,

150:24, 151:19,

155:9, 158:4, 163:22,

164:14, 164:25,

165:12, 166:7, 203:3,

210:9, 210:11,

210:21, 210:23,

210:25, 211:11,

211:12, 211:16,

211:21, 211:23,

211:24, 212:1, 212:7,

212:23, 212:24,

213:3, 213:13, 234:1,

234:3

PLAN [1] - 1:4

Plan [58] - 10:3,

10:21, 15:17, 16:8,

16:14, 18:14, 18:18,

19:17, 20:3, 20:13,

21:2, 21:21, 24:16,

27:3, 27:6, 27:22,

28:2, 28:5, 31:15,

32:19, 32:24, 33:18,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

26

33:19, 36:2, 38:17,

73:14, 78:1, 81:4,

93:6, 94:14, 98:3,

98:8, 99:15, 100:2,

103:19, 104:21,

126:18, 140:21,

141:2, 141:10,

141:11, 141:15,

142:6, 142:24,

144:20, 150:11,

152:6, 152:19,

163:19, 166:17,

182:2, 210:9, 210:16,

226:20, 226:25,

232:6, 234:20, 243:13

planet [1] - 89:18

planned [1] - 141:20

planning [5] - 32:15,

106:3, 139:1, 186:25,

207:18

Planning [2] - 81:23,

180:13

plans [4] - 22:11,

107:8, 201:1, 218:16

Plans [1] - 23:7

Plant [3] - 107:17,

107:18, 142:1

plant [59] - 25:19,

26:9, 31:12, 40:9,

61:6, 61:10, 61:11,

61:15, 62:13, 93:10,

93:11, 93:16, 94:10,

94:16, 97:2, 99:21,

105:8, 105:20,

105:23, 106:12,

106:18, 108:9, 124:8,

129:16, 133:23,

134:24, 137:4, 141:6,

141:16, 141:21,

141:23, 142:14,

146:21, 146:23,

146:24, 151:10,

156:2, 159:9, 162:1,

166:1, 175:13,

180:24, 180:25,

181:5, 197:13,

198:22, 200:7,

205:22, 211:24,

212:20, 215:3, 215:4,

216:10, 220:20,

222:17, 225:19,

226:5, 226:10

plant's [1] - 197:15

plants [18] - 61:15,

95:2, 97:7, 105:5,

133:16, 141:19,

142:2, 143:18,

143:20, 144:1, 144:2,

144:12, 146:17,

147:9, 154:19, 168:6,
168:7, 168:18

Plata [2] - 96:20,

96:22

play [2] - 62:4,

191:20

playground [1] -

160:16

plays [1] - 197:8

pleased [2] - 23:15,

240:18

pleasure [1] - 19:2

plus [1] - 146:22

PM [3] - 82:24,

125:15, 136:22

PNM [180] - 7:13, 8:9,

9:3, 15:22, 23:2, 26:2,

26:5, 26:12, 27:20,

28:16, 29:14, 29:15,

31:11, 31:16, 31:25,

32:5, 32:7, 32:17,

33:20, 33:24, 35:9,

37:2, 42:17, 42:25,

43:12, 45:10, 46:5,

47:19, 49:17, 50:17,

54:14, 56:3, 56:9,

56:11, 56:15, 56:17,

56:20, 56:24, 57:24,

59:18, 60:1, 61:21,

62:14, 65:3, 68:9,

68:13, 79:25, 82:10,

82:13, 82:25, 83:3,

83:17, 83:18, 83:24,

84:3, 86:21, 90:2,

90:15, 90:17, 94:13,

95:2, 96:19, 101:11,

101:23, 106:4,

106:14, 106:16,

107:7, 108:8, 108:10,

108:18, 111:17,

112:2, 113:20,

121:23, 122:7,

122:23, 124:1, 127:7,

128:6, 129:7, 130:3,

130:7, 131:13,

135:16, 135:19,

135:22, 137:3,

141:16, 142:12,

142:16, 145:11,

146:19, 148:8,

150:10, 151:5, 151:9,

151:11, 151:13,

154:3, 155:25, 158:2,

159:24, 160:22,

162:6, 166:21, 167:4,

168:10, 169:8,

169:15, 171:22,

174:8, 174:23, 175:2,

175:19, 182:10,

185:4, 185:17,

185:22, 186:13,

188:19, 189:21,

192:6, 192:18, 193:9,

195:11, 195:25,

196:23, 197:1,

199:15, 201:2,

202:22, 203:20,

204:1, 204:8, 204:9,

204:15, 205:6,

205:10, 205:18,

207:12, 207:17,

208:10, 208:18,

209:15, 209:18,

209:23, 210:8,

210:10, 210:15,

212:1, 212:3, 212:20,

214:14, 214:15,

216:9, 216:19,

217:22, 218:18,

219:23, 220:9, 221:1,

221:2, 222:22,

227:22, 227:23,

228:2, 228:3, 232:20,

233:21, 235:18,

235:22, 240:19,

242:21, 243:11,

248:11, 248:13

PNM's [19] - 32:2,

49:21, 51:18, 51:25,

91:14, 91:25, 98:12,

98:24, 121:7, 152:9,

154:11, 162:14,

164:8, 165:20,

169:16, 195:15,

197:7, 213:9, 221:13

podium [1] - 60:9

point [38] - 13:19,

16:6, 22:5, 22:21,

27:7, 27:16, 36:4,

42:9, 42:17, 45:10,

46:15, 47:23, 52:7,

52:11, 58:4, 62:1,

62:25, 64:6, 64:24,

76:17, 84:25, 86:14,

89:25, 115:22, 116:1,

130:6, 146:12,

156:14, 166:25,

187:4, 189:7, 192:16,

222:8, 232:20, 234:2,

234:22, 235:15

pointed [1] - 186:3

pointing [1] - 58:16

points [6] - 19:13,

180:14, 208:13,

242:14, 243:19,

243:23

Policy [1] - 81:23

policy [15] - 14:1,

18:11, 18:19, 28:18,

37:9, 37:12, 50:10,

191:20, 191:22,

193:1, 205:10,

207:13, 213:10,

215:20, 216:3

political [3] - 36:4,

55:18, 243:18

politician [1] - 35:19

politicians [1] -

161:7

politics [2] - 39:23,

226:11

pollutant [1] - 70:25

pollutants [4] -

74:16, 74:19, 74:20,

74:24

polluting [1] - 159:15

pollution [5] - 25:23,

161:15, 219:24,

231:14, 241:17

poor [3] - 32:15,

161:23, 161:24

poorer [1] - 40:8

poorhouse [1] -

132:22

populated [1] - 40:14

portal [1] - 12:19

portfolio [4] - 34:15,

212:4, 213:16, 213:23

portion [4] - 56:4,

133:14, 203:19, 214:2

positing [1] - 38:4

position [12] - 22:16,

36:9, 48:8, 49:18,

52:19, 130:8, 137:10,

138:1, 205:3, 215:22,

215:23, 218:23

positive [3] - 48:4,

48:15, 204:6

possibilities [1] -

24:9

possibility [3] - 64:4,

220:12, 235:6

possible [10] - 30:21,

51:20, 51:22, 57:12,

65:10, 78:1, 106:6,

136:13, 218:16, 235:4

possibly [3] - 79:25,

106:4, 188:1

post [1] - 115:17

Post [1] - 3:4

post-processor [1] -

115:17

postcombustion [1]

- 19:22

potential [11] - 24:9,

31:9, 105:16, 117:24,

129:3, 129:14, 133:5,

134:15, 134:23,

205:20, 205:23

potentially [2] -

44:10, 205:25

pound [1] - 112:1

pounding [1] - 148:8

pounds [10] - 19:22,

69:2, 79:5, 80:17,

111:13, 113:3,

180:20, 180:21,

199:5, 199:6

poverty [2] - 34:4,

101:14

Power [7] - 107:17,

107:18, 142:1,

196:15, 200:5, 208:14

power [37] - 28:23,

61:15, 92:17, 94:10,

97:7, 101:23, 102:20,

103:12, 105:11,

137:6, 141:6, 143:18,

144:1, 144:12,

146:17, 147:1, 159:9,

161:21, 167:24,

168:6, 168:18,

195:16, 195:20,

200:8, 200:19,

202:20, 203:6, 204:6,

204:12, 216:22,

217:18, 220:8, 221:5,

225:19, 226:5,

226:10, 238:24

powered [1] - 141:19

powerful [1] - 47:24

PPA [1] - 196:7

practicability [1] -

242:4

practical [6] - 102:3,

102:9, 102:23, 103:6,

103:18, 240:3

PRC [19] - 41:16,

41:20, 41:22, 42:16,

43:17, 62:6, 62:17,

62:18, 102:22, 148:8,

217:12, 234:23,

235:8, 237:5, 241:4,

241:5, 241:6, 241:8,

248:13

PRC's [3] - 235:11,

235:12, 248:10

Pre [1] - 8:20

Pre-Filed [1] - 8:20

preaching [1] - 88:23

precedes [1] -

100:17

precious [1] - 147:21

predecessor [1] -

208:4

predetermined [1] -

44:12

predict [3] - 114:18,

206:4

predicted [2] -

115:22, 116:4

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

27

preface [1] - 203:19

prefer [6] - 50:18,

51:19, 51:21, 54:15,

108:2, 134:18

preferable [1] -

105:21

preference [3] -

49:25, 137:12, 226:15

preferred [1] - 50:13

prefiled [20] - 69:13,

128:17, 169:14,

169:19, 170:23,

170:24, 171:21,

172:19, 174:6,

174:19, 175:5, 180:3,

195:24, 196:18,

197:3, 207:22,

208:16, 208:21,

209:11, 209:21

prejudge [4] - 43:9,

43:19, 154:13, 154:22

prejudiced [2] - 22:7,

27:14

preparation [2] -

76:5, 175:17

prepare [3] - 69:25,

108:5, 180:9

prepared [6] -

169:14, 171:21,

174:6, 180:12,

195:24, 208:16

prescribe [1] - 70:15

present [10] - 12:2,

12:8, 12:10, 59:21,

109:5, 142:21,

145:17, 165:24,

226:22, 239:23

presentation [1] -

223:10

presented [5] -

132:24, 201:12,

212:7, 237:21, 239:19

presenting [3] -

179:11, 191:17,

194:16

preservation [1] -

98:11

preserve [1] - 11:11

President [6] -

102:14, 105:17,

131:8, 131:14,

131:18, 132:5

president [16] - 14:1,

14:2, 95:25, 107:4,

140:7, 143:16,

173:10, 173:13,

186:1, 195:11,

205:10, 207:13,

208:9, 215:20,

223:20, 224:24
President's [1] -

105:19

presidents [2] -

139:5, 139:13

presumably [2] -

192:7, 201:19

presuming [1] -

42:12

pretreating [2] -

80:1, 128:23

pretreatment [1] -

80:4

pretty [3] - 85:4,

97:11, 190:19

prevailed [1] - 153:4

prevent [2] - 45:17,

231:14

previous [4] - 72:8,

99:2, 188:20, 242:6

previously [6] -

90:10, 172:15,

174:24, 175:16,

179:5, 246:22

price [4] - 90:12,

191:3, 191:5, 210:12

prices [1] - 98:20

pricing [1] - 208:6

primarily [1] - 225:20

primary [2] - 233:2,

233:3

principle [4] - 108:8,

108:25, 142:9, 186:11

privy [2] - 121:21,

243:6

probable [2] - 198:9,

198:17

problem [4] - 55:5,

104:25, 105:3, 244:15

procedurally [1] -

16:5

Procedure [1] - 11:9

procedure [1] -

193:1

procedures [3] -

11:4, 11:5, 180:8

proceed [8] - 13:4,

13:17, 16:20, 17:1,

41:19, 67:2, 76:22,

166:9

proceeding [18] -

69:5, 78:11, 82:16,

163:5, 168:10,

170:25, 174:8,

174:24, 174:25,

175:6, 186:4, 186:10,

209:12, 210:7, 218:3,

221:10, 250:7, 250:14

Proceedings [4] -

65:18, 109:20,

162:17, 224:3

proceedings [1] -

43:20

PROCEEDINGS [1] -

1:12

process [34] - 18:16,

24:20, 36:16, 47:25,

52:21, 52:24, 62:2,

62:4, 71:16, 77:24,

78:2, 79:15, 89:7,

90:8, 165:4, 165:6,

167:2, 169:5, 174:5,

175:23, 179:23,

180:10, 187:21,

189:11, 193:4,

199:13, 200:14,

214:2, 217:13,

217:14, 218:1,

218:25, 237:17, 241:9

processes [1] -

123:5

processing [1] -

72:24

processor [1] -

115:17

procure [1] - 182:11

procurement [1] -

195:16

produce [3] - 30:6,

33:10, 96:2

produced [2] -

105:11, 178:10

produces [1] - 47:1

producing [1] -

29:24

production [2] -

34:8, 246:3

productive [1] -

215:9

productivity [2] -

181:19, 190:7

products [2] -

152:16, 233:13

profession [1] -

100:22

professional [3] -

77:18, 172:12, 195:22

professionally [1] -

94:8

profit [1] - 161:15

Program [3] - 80:23,

108:19, 142:20

program [5] - 15:13,

79:12, 79:23, 108:14,

208:15

programs [5] -

77:10, 100:20, 148:3,

234:9

progress [2] - 15:2,

105:16

progresses [1] -

12:23

prohibits [1] - 30:11

project [11] - 68:2,

105:2, 167:24, 168:5,

168:25, 169:1, 169:3,

169:6, 169:7, 179:21,

190:25

projected [1] -

177:20

projects [5] - 168:20,

171:17, 171:19,

172:10, 172:12

promises [2] -

185:16, 213:19

promotion [1] -

140:15

promulgate [3] -

21:1, 52:23, 218:14

promulgated [2] -

15:20, 21:10

promulgating [1] -

27:3

proof [1] - 217:22

proper [1] - 230:13

properly [1] - 27:11

property [3] -

160:13, 231:18, 242:1

proposal [34] - 19:3,

19:15, 25:12, 28:9,

33:11, 33:12, 33:14,

33:25, 34:7, 34:10,

34:14, 34:21, 39:4,

42:13, 42:15, 42:16,

90:1, 90:4, 98:22,

98:24, 99:17, 132:25,

133:11, 156:18,

166:11, 183:18,

187:6, 205:17, 214:3,

231:2, 237:21, 240:2,

240:25, 243:24

proposals [1] -

134:18

propose [2] - 44:4,

162:13

proposed [41] -

10:20, 16:7, 21:16,

25:20, 33:4, 33:25,

34:18, 52:5, 75:19,

92:11, 99:10, 132:11,

132:25, 133:10,

134:19, 135:3,

136:20, 137:2,

140:22, 150:11,

163:20, 165:2,

165:13, 193:8,

197:15, 197:20,

198:21, 199:2,

202:18, 213:9,

221:11, 230:15,

230:18, 237:4,

237:25, 240:4, 240:7,

246:5, 247:9, 249:6

Proposed [1] - 8:6

PROPOSED [1] - 1:4

proposing [2] -

20:12, 90:17

proprietary [1] -

130:4

prospect [2] - 98:11,

98:14

prospective [1] -

137:16

prosperity [3] - 97:5,

132:17, 136:11

protect [6] - 32:14,

36:10, 40:17, 103:5,

129:7, 206:2

protected [1] -

122:23

Protection [4] - 7:10,

78:6, 89:19, 105:4

protection [3] -

99:11, 132:16, 136:11

protocol [1] - 80:3

proud [1] - 151:5

proven [1] - 148:18

provide [46] - 11:6,

17:2, 17:8, 19:9,

19:14, 20:15, 26:10,

32:5, 32:7, 32:24,

33:1, 33:20, 37:24,

37:25, 49:19, 50:5,

51:8, 56:5, 65:3, 69:4,

70:1, 90:22, 94:7,

98:16, 99:23, 101:23,

106:3, 120:6, 121:13,

144:5, 145:13, 147:9,

149:11, 152:17,

175:6, 179:17, 180:2,

180:6, 187:11, 197:3,

197:6, 197:14,

204:17, 209:20,

230:13, 230:16

provided [12] -

16:15, 38:2, 47:13,

70:14, 102:2, 138:4,

144:1, 176:14,

176:22, 231:7,

232:10, 243:14

provides [10] -

25:21, 26:7, 40:13,

68:18, 68:19, 98:10,

209:23, 210:22,

212:2, 231:15

providing [11] - 16:4,

18:15, 19:6, 28:18,

39:18, 98:14, 135:10,

140:18, 197:9, 201:2,

214:1

provision [4] - 49:19,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

28

126:21, 234:8, 235:17

provisions [7] - 15:8,

64:17, 64:18, 78:22,

78:25, 216:3, 245:23

PS [1] - 137:21

Public [26] - 2:13,

2:19, 7:10, 8:11, 8:16,

8:22, 9:6, 12:9, 13:24,

16:1, 40:12, 41:16,

61:17, 61:23, 78:5,

154:8, 159:1, 162:20,

162:25, 165:22,

200:5, 215:25, 216:8,

216:20, 217:6, 222:22

PUBLIC [1] - 250:19

public [70] - 7:15,

7:17, 7:19, 11:23,

12:2, 12:3, 12:18,

12:22, 12:24, 13:3,

14:1, 14:13, 24:11,

24:13, 24:20, 24:21,

42:3, 44:9, 44:10,

44:13, 44:17, 44:18,

52:21, 52:24, 53:14,

63:11, 65:22, 65:25,

66:10, 66:17, 75:18,

75:20, 76:7, 76:9,

78:1, 87:5, 87:13,

87:23, 109:15,

131:10, 131:17,

138:25, 146:8, 147:7,

149:5, 149:10,

149:11, 152:10,

152:17, 163:6, 180:3,

207:13, 209:23,

215:20, 223:23,

224:6, 224:9, 224:10,

231:3, 231:7, 231:18,

231:22, 232:1,

234:21, 236:12,

239:16, 242:2,

247:22, 249:2

publication [2] -

7:15, 76:13

publicly [3] - 91:7,

186:14, 210:2

publicly-traded [1] -

210:2

published [3] - 20:3,

182:10, 231:8

Pueblo [1] - 100:13

pueblo [1] - 100:20

pueblos [1] - 100:21

pulpit [1] - 88:23

purchase [1] -

200:20

purely [1] - 235:16

purpose [7] - 78:25,

79:7, 79:18, 80:2,

80:12, 197:6, 217:17
purposes [1] - 139:1

pursuant [1] - 11:5

pursue [1] - 188:12

pursuing [1] - 91:4

pursuit [1] - 101:18

push [1] - 240:22

pushed [2] - 40:18,

228:20

pushing [1] - 241:10

put [31] - 21:13,

21:14, 21:21, 37:2,

39:23, 46:15, 49:21,

51:17, 55:8, 64:9,

93:13, 105:2, 112:21,

112:22, 113:7, 113:8,

114:14, 146:19,

153:7, 154:11, 157:4,

165:3, 191:2, 191:7,

191:13, 191:23,

222:7, 240:15,

241:12, 244:8, 244:17

putting [4] - 50:8,

54:16, 132:22, 248:9

Q

qualifications [1] -

171:25

Quality [8] - 67:14,

77:11, 77:12, 80:23,

180:12, 231:12,

231:13, 241:22

quality [11] - 71:7,

72:16, 140:16, 145:1,

171:10, 171:16,

171:18, 172:10,

175:18, 181:5, 241:15

quantitative [1] -

73:18

quarter [1] - 75:13

question's [1] -

123:22

questionable [1] -

222:5

questioning [5] -

48:12, 199:22,

205:24, 216:14, 243:4

questions [51] -

19:10, 36:19, 36:24,

40:25, 55:25, 60:2,

60:3, 60:8, 60:20,

61:1, 62:25, 63:4,

63:23, 63:25, 76:21,

81:10, 86:13, 86:18,

110:10, 111:1,

118:16, 120:25,

125:25, 126:1, 126:2,

128:9, 130:12,

156:25, 162:9,

175:25, 184:23,

185:3, 188:14,

191:25, 194:6, 194:7,

194:9, 198:20, 202:3,

202:4, 202:5, 202:6,

203:8, 206:13,

206:17, 212:10,

213:17, 215:11,

215:12, 223:5, 236:4

quick [1] - 63:20

quickly [2] - 164:25,

232:15

quite [4] - 49:16,

96:12, 101:3, 180:21

quoted [3] - 122:15,

130:24, 160:22

R

radar [1] - 244:20

radiation [1] - 48:10

radical [4] - 88:21,

89:17, 91:3, 146:25

rail [2] - 103:13,

148:12

rainbows [1] - 91:12

raise [1] - 149:12

raised [1] - 139:9

Raj [3] - 14:4, 173:2

RAJ [3] - 6:4, 167:8,

167:12

RAJENDRA [1] -

173:6

Rajendra [2] - 9:5,

173:5

ralvidrez@mstlaw.

com [1] - 2:17

range [4] - 106:1,

182:12, 189:22, 198:7

ranged [1] - 29:16

ranges [1] - 177:21

rate [17] - 68:25,

79:4, 79:21, 79:22,

80:14, 80:16, 80:19,

111:25, 113:7, 113:9,

124:15, 125:13,

146:8, 203:2, 203:4,

205:21, 225:10

rate-paying [1] -

146:8

ratepayer [2] - 164:7,

165:1

ratepayers [17] -

88:25, 89:12, 89:20,

90:5, 90:9, 90:12,

90:15, 92:14, 99:12,

99:14, 99:16, 106:8,

106:17, 146:10,

148:10, 148:14,

152:20

rates [3] - 152:13,

152:20, 175:12

rather [10] - 22:13,

34:10, 38:12, 87:15,

161:1, 161:14, 162:7,

165:9, 174:16, 248:15

rationale [1] - 156:13

raw [2] - 74:3, 233:12

re [2] - 130:20, 153:8

re-examining [1] -

130:20

re-order [1] - 153:8

reach [4] - 46:7,

64:22, 199:9, 240:20

reached [10] - 16:2,

31:15, 35:9, 39:5,

40:3, 43:8, 44:17,

45:10, 75:9

reaching [1] - 199:18

reactor [3] - 180:23,

181:7, 181:8

reactors [1] - 181:2

read [21] - 35:1,

123:16, 170:4, 170:8,

170:10, 170:12,

170:15, 170:16,

170:17, 170:20,

172:18, 174:16,

192:24, 196:8,

201:11, 203:18,

204:4, 208:23,

246:17, 246:18

reading [3] - 21:4,

123:8, 153:16

reads [1] - 196:7

realistic [2] - 132:12,

134:12

reality [5] - 91:20,

105:19, 152:21,

159:3, 226:17

realize [3] - 19:7,

43:6, 51:16

really [36] - 19:14,

21:5, 27:7, 30:24,

40:6, 40:17, 40:19,

55:19, 56:16, 62:4,

102:5, 102:17,

102:18, 110:16,

113:13, 114:24,

126:19, 127:20,

134:12, 154:3, 165:8,

166:9, 176:10,

191:22, 198:6, 205:3,

210:13, 228:14,

230:8, 230:12, 232:8,

232:22, 232:25,

235:10, 237:6, 244:16

reason [18] - 16:6,

16:13, 39:18, 43:7,

53:1, 53:11, 53:17,

64:11, 127:24,

148:20, 160:21,

161:3, 187:6, 188:5,

191:21, 228:8,

238:10, 248:11

reasonable [10] -

11:6, 15:2, 23:22,

50:7, 101:16, 145:5,

146:19, 152:13,

235:19, 245:24

reasonableness [1] -

242:5

reasonably [2] -

182:15, 241:19

reasons [17] - 57:24,

98:4, 99:24, 105:12,

156:20, 210:17,

230:16, 230:18,

232:3, 235:7, 247:6,

247:11, 248:6, 248:9,

248:18, 248:21

Reasons [2] - 8:6,

247:8

recapture [1] - 232:2

receive [1] - 75:18

received [11] - 12:17,

20:17, 29:14, 29:15,

35:1, 75:20, 121:19,

163:23, 182:10,

189:21, 247:22

receives [1] - 233:22

receiving [2] - 37:21,

44:9

recent [1] - 91:25

recently [2] - 47:17,

226:10

receptor [3] -

115:21, 115:25, 116:1

recess [4] - 65:18,

109:20, 162:17, 224:3

reclamation [1] -

96:22

recognition [1] -

43:9

recognize [5] -

46:14, 105:19, 133:9,

213:12

recognized [2] -

25:8, 25:10

recognizes [2] -

163:21, 246:1

recognizing [3] -

23:16, 40:2, 204:19

recommend [2] -

154:5, 241:2

recommended [1] -

84:6

reconvene [1] -

109:18

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

29

record [40] - 10:9,

11:24, 18:21, 28:7,

65:21, 67:10, 77:7,

81:19, 110:6, 138:23,

149:18, 157:5,

162:20, 166:18,

166:19, 167:18,

169:22, 171:5,

172:18, 173:4,

174:19, 195:7, 196:4,

197:18, 197:21,

207:7, 208:17,

208:24, 216:16,

219:17, 221:12,

221:25, 237:9,

237:22, 238:11,

238:12, 241:7,

241:12, 243:3, 250:11

recorded [3] - 11:19,

88:2, 250:10

recovery [1] - 183:8

reduce [13] - 25:22,

79:25, 85:13, 106:9,

106:11, 124:8,

136:20, 136:21,

136:24, 137:24,

183:6, 199:17, 211:22

reduced [8] - 74:4,

74:6, 74:7, 74:10,

74:12, 74:13, 150:16,

233:12

reduces [5] - 145:10,

211:16, 211:23,

211:25, 213:14

reducing [3] - 30:25,

136:25, 242:5

reduction [30] -

19:24, 20:6, 20:8,

68:22, 70:25, 74:1,

74:22, 74:23, 74:24,

112:4, 119:3, 119:16,

130:24, 133:2,

134:21, 136:17,

137:22, 140:25,

141:3, 142:11,

150:20, 172:12,

198:21, 199:2,

210:14, 211:1, 211:3,

245:20, 245:21

reductions [11] -

20:10, 33:13, 72:20,

72:22, 73:23, 74:2,

74:15, 74:19, 120:8,

164:6, 245:18

refamiliarize [1] -

111:22

refer [2] - 203:13,

222:17

reference [2] - 118:2,

170:20
referred [1] - 52:14

referring [2] -

128:16, 203:15

reflect [3] - 190:4,

237:4, 247:23

reflected [1] - 204:7

refusal [1] - 22:2

refused [2] - 52:10,

243:2

regard [10] - 28:19,

64:16, 150:16,

163:11, 165:15,

176:25, 187:11,

188:3, 222:23, 234:22

regarding [6] - 10:2,

16:24, 137:16, 226:6,

231:22, 241:4

regardless [5] - 12:2,

29:7, 112:20, 127:8,

248:12

Region [2] - 138:1

region [22] - 21:14,

24:13, 24:18, 25:10,

25:22, 25:25, 26:8,

26:9, 31:17, 32:4,

32:12, 32:14, 46:19,

98:12, 133:6, 133:12,

134:25, 137:17,

137:20, 197:14,

205:8, 225:16

Regional [7] - 15:3,

126:23, 127:2,

132:14, 145:6, 164:6,

234:8

regional [19] - 10:2,

14:23, 15:6, 19:17,

20:17, 20:21, 21:1,

21:3, 104:22, 107:23,

136:19, 145:7,

148:21, 150:20,

163:15, 210:19,

210:24, 212:3

register [1] - 12:25

registered [2] -

77:17, 195:22

regret [1] - 157:22

regular [1] - 147:25

regulate [1] - 218:24

regulated [1] - 62:14

Regulation [9] -

41:16, 61:17, 61:24,

154:8, 165:22, 216:8,

216:21, 217:6, 222:22

regulations [11] -

34:6, 105:25, 106:5,

106:6, 141:20,

141:25, 218:8, 219:8,

230:16, 231:16,

232:10

Regulations [1] -

230:12

regulatorily [1] -

248:14

regulatory [15] -

17:3, 125:10, 165:6,

165:17, 166:4, 166:5,

167:1, 204:20, 205:4,

207:17, 208:9,

208:12, 220:22,

239:11, 246:16

Regulatory [3] -

8:13, 8:18, 9:8

reiterate [2] - 86:6,

213:19

reject [2] - 90:4,

210:9

related [14] - 32:2,

61:5, 68:20, 69:21,

76:7, 106:9, 106:10,

141:6, 144:2, 152:15,

168:20, 174:4, 250:13

relates [1] - 128:22

relating [3] - 130:22,

166:12, 197:19

relation [1] - 63:22

relationship [1] -

96:19

relative [4] - 85:22,

213:17, 218:15,

250:15

relatively [1] - 177:9

relevant [6] - 168:13,

172:4, 173:22,

195:19, 203:18

reliable [5] - 89:1,

90:9, 90:16, 90:22,

197:10

relied [1] - 182:16

relief [1] - 232:3

relies [2] - 176:10,

178:12

reluctant [1] - 221:19

rely [1] - 92:11

relying [1] - 243:15

remain [6] - 30:18,

151:1, 200:16,

200:21, 214:15, 226:3

remaining [11] -

68:22, 71:13, 73:3,

73:4, 119:12, 119:17,

146:23, 177:21,

211:2, 232:22, 241:18

remarks [3] - 14:19,

163:2, 231:11

remember [3] - 61:7,

89:2

REMEMBERED [1] -

1:14

remiss [1] - 214:7

removed [2] - 176:3,

183:11

removes [1] - 199:11

removing [1] -

181:14

renewables [7] -

91:8, 91:10, 146:15,

147:7, 147:11,

147:13, 148:18

reopen [1] - 131:10

repeat [1] - 217:25

repeatedly [3] -

27:16, 28:8, 58:6

repeating [1] -

211:15

repetition [1] - 11:18

replace [18] - 42:5,

42:7, 90:18, 91:10,

91:17, 92:2, 92:8,

92:17, 98:16, 98:24,

105:11, 145:2,

146:16, 146:20,

203:22, 209:7,

216:23, 239:11

replacement [12] -

61:11, 61:15, 90:24,

137:6, 165:25, 203:6,

204:6, 204:12,

216:22, 217:19,

220:8, 221:4

replaces [1] - 246:17

replacing [1] -

146:20

report [4] - 44:7,

153:17, 156:8, 156:9

reported [1] - 102:25

reporter [2] - 11:23,

60:11

REPORTER [16] -

88:16, 92:25, 95:21,

100:10, 104:7,

106:25, 131:23,

139:24, 143:9, 150:5,

155:5, 157:13,

158:21, 224:15,

227:8, 227:13

Reporters [1] - 11:21

represent [10] -

35:24, 94:9, 96:1,

103:17, 133:25,

140:11, 143:15,

143:23, 152:10, 225:7

representations [1] -

186:16

Representative [2] -

34:22, 227:21

represented [3] -

144:15, 204:12,

226:14

representing [3] -

45:8, 104:16, 140:4

represents [7] -

44:23, 44:25, 142:7,

144:21, 152:8, 164:4,

165:13

request [11] - 63:21,

166:10, 185:12,

212:6, 234:19,

237:20, 239:11,

239:21, 244:18,

246:16, 246:22

requesting [2] -

193:15, 244:14

requests [1] - 106:13

require [7] - 134:19,

135:4, 136:15,

165:21, 180:19,

204:19, 234:10

required [24] - 20:5,

28:3, 41:17, 44:21,

52:25, 53:15, 58:2,

72:13, 74:4, 79:13,

105:23, 111:18,

112:4, 121:18,

124:12, 140:23,

141:2, 164:9, 164:23,

212:21, 212:25,

241:21, 248:15

requirement [7] -

37:19, 68:21, 68:23,

79:10, 111:24,

137:19, 181:22

requirements [20] -

15:3, 17:4, 37:1, 65:2,

65:12, 76:10, 81:6,

105:15, 105:22,

105:24, 106:7,

114:14, 114:16,

122:14, 164:6,

210:19, 232:5,

232:19, 242:11, 249:4

requires [17] - 26:8,

41:9, 70:18, 70:21,

70:23, 71:3, 79:1,

91:15, 163:25,

180:10, 180:20,

180:23, 182:3, 182:6,

234:4, 235:18, 241:13

requisite [1] - 187:11

rerun [1] - 89:3

research [1] - 244:15

Research [1] - 148:2

residences [1] -

209:25

resident [2] - 150:9,

150:13

residents [1] - 225:1

residuals [1] -

211:20

resign [1] - 107:20

resiliency [1] - 226:9

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

30

resolution [6] - 35:2,

109:5, 142:22,

145:17, 226:23, 246:5

resolve [2] - 23:12,

48:5

resolved [1] - 161:19

resolving [1] -

240:23

resource [3] -

154:11, 154:16,

207:18

Resource [1] -

146:14

resources [2] -

34:16, 225:13

respect [19] - 10:3,

67:25, 68:16, 69:17,

76:2, 77:22, 82:8,

83:8, 97:24, 126:17,

132:24, 167:4,

172:18, 218:1,

221:13, 237:4,

237:10, 237:13,

237:23

respectfully [6] -

106:13, 154:8,

154:12, 154:20,

212:6, 234:19

respective [1] -

179:12

respond [3] - 64:1,

129:20, 185:25

responded [1] -

119:21

response [6] - 48:12,

51:9, 76:3, 120:12,

120:19, 120:20

responses [5] - 76:6,

83:10, 239:6, 247:3,

249:11

responsibilities [3] -

168:4, 169:7, 208:11

responsibility [4] -

161:14, 162:4,

173:14, 195:14

responsible [10] -

136:6, 136:10,

171:15, 173:15,

207:16, 207:17,

208:6, 208:8, 208:12,

214:20

rest [2] - 149:4,

203:24

restarting [1] - 114:3

restate [1] - 232:2

restraint [1] - 54:24

result [22] - 21:2,

22:25, 26:6, 31:12,

31:18, 31:25, 39:1,

58:1, 84:16, 85:4,
85:8, 105:7, 135:19,

145:5, 151:14, 153:2,

153:8, 164:3, 164:21,

176:1, 228:3, 241:20

resulted [2] - 78:7

resulting [6] - 26:3,

26:14, 72:21, 72:24,

73:24, 119:14

results [14] - 39:22,

79:16, 82:14, 176:21,

176:22, 177:6, 177:8,

177:14, 178:6,

178:10, 178:20,

183:17, 183:19, 184:6

resume [5] - 7:25,

8:5, 67:23, 77:19,

82:6

retail [1] - 97:12

retained [1] - 111:6

reticent [1] - 221:10

retire [1] - 155:24

retired [10] - 31:2,

31:7, 31:16, 150:10,

151:3, 151:11, 158:2,

177:16, 179:20,

203:22

retirement [11] -

25:9, 31:1, 31:10,

34:20, 144:24,

165:19, 176:6,

202:17, 202:19,

210:25, 215:2

retirements [5] -

26:6, 31:18, 177:5,

220:13, 221:14

retiring [4] - 25:18,

32:11, 151:7, 213:19

retraining [2] - 32:6,

201:3

Retrofit [9] - 10:4,

10:22, 14:25, 19:19,

165:13, 232:13,

232:19, 239:13,

245:10

RETROFIT [1] - 1:5

retrofit [3] - 25:19,

70:19, 71:20

returned [2] - 228:3,

228:22

revenue [4] - 136:8,

137:24, 192:7, 192:11

reverse [1] - 42:23

review [14] - 27:22,

68:3, 166:3, 179:18,

179:22, 197:9,

216:21, 231:3, 231:7,

234:21, 236:12,

239:17, 243:2, 243:12

Review [1] - 175:13

revise [4] - 81:5,

121:7, 238:18, 247:13

revised [75] - 15:17,

16:15, 18:13, 18:17,

31:14, 32:19, 32:24,

33:7, 33:9, 33:18,

35:8, 35:10, 36:1,

39:4, 41:23, 42:4,

42:10, 42:15, 48:21,

55:1, 93:5, 94:15,

104:21, 104:24,

105:6, 105:13, 106:1,

109:6, 125:1, 125:13,

142:6, 142:24,

144:20, 145:19,

148:22, 152:5,

163:19, 163:22,

165:9, 165:11, 176:4,

177:1, 177:15,

177:18, 178:7, 178:9,

178:14, 178:20,

178:23, 179:1, 179:3,

179:20, 182:2,

182:16, 183:18,

184:2, 185:13, 192:5,

192:10, 193:9,

198:11, 199:6,

199:18, 202:18,

210:8, 210:16, 218:3,

220:10, 221:2, 221:4,

222:4, 226:19,

226:25, 228:7, 246:6

Revised [1] - 170:13

revision [1] - 213:9

Revisions [2] - 8:7,

247:9

REVISIONS [1] - 1:4

revisions [6] - 10:21,

64:25, 170:23, 231:6,

248:21, 249:7

revisited [1] - 213:4

revisiting [2] - 89:3,

219:6

RICHARD [1] - 2:14

Rick [2] - 13:23,

162:25

Rickie [1] - 140:3

RICKIE [4] - 5:10,

139:18, 139:20, 140:3

rid [1] - 248:22

rights [1] - 58:24

Rio [1] - 101:10

rise [1] - 29:25

risk [2] - 164:22,

191:2

river [4] - 159:12,

159:13, 159:15, 161:1

River [1] - 159:15

road [2] - 96:23,

190:22

Rock [1] - 138:14

role [9] - 62:4, 67:25,

77:22, 82:8, 82:10,

83:14, 83:15, 171:15,

197:8

roles [1] - 179:12

roll [1] - 92:12

rolling [4] - 79:5,

80:18, 112:1, 112:15

Ron [1] - 13:25

RONALD [4] - 6:10,

194:18, 207:1, 207:9

Ronald [3] - 8:10,

206:22, 207:8

room [3] - 14:22,

216:13, 216:15

Room [1] - 1:17

roughly [1] - 233:5

round [1] - 106:5

route [1] - 99:20

routinely [3] - 50:6,

52:14, 57:25

royalties [2] -

201:15, 201:25

rubber [1] - 190:22

rule [67] - 15:21,

20:13, 20:15, 22:25,

23:8, 25:20, 27:3,

27:9, 27:10, 27:12,

27:13, 28:1, 28:13,

28:14, 29:6, 29:7,

29:9, 30:15, 30:19,

31:2, 31:7, 33:6, 33:9,

34:2, 34:12, 36:11,

37:7, 37:18, 37:19,

37:22, 38:3, 38:11,

41:25, 42:3, 42:5,

42:6, 42:7, 42:9, 44:4,

44:11, 46:16, 46:21,

46:24, 47:9, 52:24,

59:4, 134:19, 134:23,

137:19, 150:25,

163:15, 164:15,

165:2, 165:4, 176:11,

178:12, 187:21,

192:21, 192:24,

218:15, 218:18,

218:21, 237:4

Rule [5] - 15:4,

132:14, 145:6, 164:6,

234:8

ruled [1] - 112:9

rulemakers [1] -

52:20

rulemaking [7] -

10:24, 11:4, 28:4,

41:24, 43:19, 44:7,

45:7

rulemakings [2] -

44:1, 53:13

Rules [2] - 11:9

rules [3] - 44:5,

210:19, 241:6

run [4] - 100:20,

106:8, 161:14, 164:22

runaway [1] - 153:11

running [1] - 177:2

runs [1] - 160:13

RYAN [3] - 4:4,

17:12, 18:1

Ryan [3] - 13:13,

18:21, 51:6

S

S&L [3] - 174:16,

174:17, 184:13

S&L's [2] - 182:13,

184:10

S-H-E-L-L-Y [1] -

131:25

S-O-N-N-T-A-G [1] -

104:10

sad [2] - 153:19,

159:7

saddled [1] - 92:14

safe [1] - 197:10

safety [3] - 113:13,

113:15, 113:16

sake [1] - 230:19

Salt [1] - 224:22

salt [1] - 159:14

SAN [1] - 1:5

San [132] - 1:17,

7:13, 10:5, 10:21,

15:1, 15:9, 15:12,

15:18, 15:22, 16:10,

16:11, 19:19, 19:22,

20:4, 22:12, 25:5,

25:13, 29:10, 29:12,

30:4, 30:9, 30:16,

33:15, 35:2, 40:8,

61:4, 61:22, 68:1,

70:11, 71:15, 73:22,

77:23, 79:3, 81:5,

82:9, 89:8, 89:11,

89:21, 90:17, 92:8,

93:6, 94:2, 94:5,

96:12, 96:19, 97:9,

97:11, 99:7, 104:22,

105:8, 107:5, 107:15,

107:16, 107:21,

107:25, 108:9,

108:20, 109:7,

117:11, 117:23,

127:5, 129:19,

129:23, 132:9, 133:2,

133:13, 133:17,

133:22, 134:22,

135:4, 136:1, 137:7,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

31

137:11, 140:4,

140:20, 140:22,

140:23, 141:24,

142:5, 142:6, 142:13,

142:14, 142:16,

142:21, 142:24,

143:1, 144:20,

145:19, 146:17,

146:20, 150:9,

150:12, 151:1, 156:1,

156:18, 158:14,

159:15, 164:10,

165:14, 166:22,

169:11, 175:8, 181:4,

183:15, 186:24,

197:8, 197:9, 197:11,

197:20, 199:5,

200:16, 203:21,

204:18, 205:7,

205:22, 210:5,

210:10, 215:1,

217:10, 218:1,

219:25, 225:17,

225:18, 225:21,

225:23, 225:25,

226:20, 226:25,

228:7, 228:18, 239:15

Santa [5] - 2:11, 3:4,

100:15, 148:7, 148:12

Santo [1] - 100:13

Sargent [9] - 9:4,

14:4, 173:10, 175:20,

179:17, 179:25,

182:25, 189:25,

197:25

satisfies [1] - 17:3

save [2] - 23:12,

106:8

saves [1] - 47:1

saw [2] - 47:24,

228:22

scale [1] - 91:11

scarce [1] - 225:9

scary [1] - 151:4

scenario [34] - 30:17,

72:10, 73:21, 73:25,

74:17, 84:8, 84:17,

85:1, 85:4, 85:9,

85:10, 85:13, 85:18,

85:21, 85:24, 86:4,

86:9, 118:22, 122:8,

145:3, 176:4, 176:5,

176:7, 177:1, 177:7,

179:4, 220:15, 233:8,

233:23, 234:15

scenarios [12] - 84:5,

85:3, 85:10, 122:19,

175:15, 176:7,

176:21, 176:25,

178:16, 232:24,
234:14, 234:15

schedule [1] - 13:2

scheduling [1] -

133:21

scheme [1] - 245:22

school [2] - 67:20,

138:13

SCHOOLEY [25] -

4:10, 5:4, 17:12, 77:1,

110:2, 111:19,

112:17, 113:2,

113:12, 114:7, 115:2,

121:10, 122:9, 123:9,

123:12, 123:15,

123:18, 123:21,

123:24, 128:15,

128:18, 129:1, 129:6,

129:17, 130:1

Schooley [8] - 7:21,

7:22, 13:14, 77:6,

77:8, 121:2, 128:14,

130:9

schools [1] - 94:2

science [8] - 67:18,

67:21, 77:15, 77:16,

82:2, 160:5, 168:16,

172:7

scientist [1] - 81:22

scope [2] - 111:9,

199:25

score [1] - 148:14

SCR [38] - 20:7,

30:23, 72:7, 74:17,

85:2, 85:5, 85:9,

85:13, 85:18, 85:24,

86:4, 86:9, 133:2,

134:21, 135:4, 135:5,

135:7, 177:15,

179:19, 180:7,

180:15, 180:17,

180:19, 180:21,

180:23, 181:7,

181:11, 181:13,

182:14, 183:10,

183:14, 189:18,

197:20, 233:8,

233:23, 234:1, 234:3,

234:15

screwed [1] - 92:18

SCRs [4] - 178:11,

182:6, 183:14, 198:8

scrubber [1] -

199:11

scrubbers [1] -

233:13

sea [1] - 180:25

seasonal [1] -

133:24

seated [1] - 194:17

second [11] - 49:3,

79:24, 123:19,

180:24, 185:16,

210:20, 211:8,

219:14, 239:3,

246:25, 249:8

secondly [1] - 98:10

Secretary [5] -

152:24, 231:23,

235:2, 243:4, 243:10

secretary [4] - 13:12,

16:22, 18:22, 60:4

Section [7] - 15:3,

67:14, 79:1, 81:23,

126:21, 239:12,

241:22

section [7] - 48:20,

49:6, 79:8, 111:22,

126:20, 189:17,

222:11

sections [2] - 215:3,

230:11

sector [2] - 98:15,

225:15

see [37] - 18:9,

23:22, 39:1, 55:5,

55:6, 55:20, 74:19,

106:1, 106:16,

110:20, 111:20,

112:14, 114:20,

118:6, 126:5, 127:19,

150:19, 153:22,

153:23, 157:20,

158:7, 159:17,

160:11, 160:21,

163:23, 165:22,

183:14, 184:11,

188:7, 188:9, 193:10,

204:7, 205:14,

222:13, 222:14,

235:10, 245:13

seeing [7] - 47:8,

56:22, 90:23, 95:1,

95:2, 130:14, 157:22

seek [6] - 101:15,

102:12, 102:21,

103:6, 217:9, 235:22

seem [1] - 102:2

select [1] - 99:20

selective [11] -

19:23, 20:6, 20:7,

68:21, 134:21,

140:24, 141:3,

142:10, 172:11, 211:1

self [1] - 140:13

self-sustaining [1] -

140:13

senator [1] - 229:10

Senator [4] - 35:7,

39:3, 48:13, 229:10

send [2] - 94:1

senior [4] - 14:1,

186:1, 207:12, 215:20

sense [3] - 90:11,

126:6, 230:13

sensitive [1] - 206:6

sentence [2] - 49:7,

203:25

separate [1] - 70:15

separately [1] -

17:19

September [3] -

1:15, 176:23, 248:23

series [2] - 24:8,

165:16

served [2] - 140:7,

169:3

Service [29] - 2:13,

2:19, 7:10, 7:20, 8:12,

8:16, 8:23, 9:6, 12:9,

13:24, 16:1, 37:24,

40:12, 75:21, 75:25,

76:4, 78:5, 83:10,

119:20, 119:23,

120:1, 120:13,

120:19, 124:4, 159:1,

162:21, 162:25,

188:18, 191:12

service [6] - 96:5,

163:7, 208:8, 220:16,

236:2, 237:13

services [8] - 67:13,

152:16, 167:25,

171:11, 171:16,

171:18, 173:11,

209:24

session [1] - 66:10

sessions [1] -

228:17

set [4] - 11:4, 19:21,

113:1, 218:7

sets [3] - 58:20,

155:16, 157:1

setting [1] - 50:12

settle [3] - 26:25,

45:4, 218:4

settlement [13] -

41:9, 43:7, 43:15,

44:8, 46:8, 52:15,

52:23, 53:6, 53:8,

57:12, 60:23, 64:23,

219:22

seven [1] - 107:19

seventh [1] - 211:12

several [9] - 12:17,

98:3, 143:21, 156:3,

161:4, 168:16, 226:9,

232:7, 233:1

severe [2] - 21:22,

25:10

shall [2] - 80:8,

241:14

shame [1] - 160:11

share [2] - 120:1,

191:18

shared [1] - 234:25

Shareholders [2] -

104:14, 104:20

shareholders [2] -

104:16, 106:17

Sharon [2] - 227:11,

227:15

SHARON [3] - 6:16,

227:4, 227:15

sheepherders [1] -

107:12

Sheet [78] - 7:9,

43:8, 43:24, 44:15,

45:16, 45:24, 46:3,

46:12, 47:8, 47:16,

48:2, 48:17, 48:19,

49:1, 50:25, 52:11,

52:16, 53:1, 54:3,

54:9, 54:16, 54:23,

54:25, 56:8, 56:22,

64:6, 64:8, 64:15,

64:18, 65:1, 65:2,

65:12, 68:9, 68:10,

68:16, 68:19, 68:23,

69:1, 72:1, 78:9,

78:23, 79:1, 79:8,

80:20, 81:7, 111:21,

112:5, 113:2, 114:4,

122:14, 122:16,

123:2, 123:6, 165:7,

166:2, 166:10,

175:11, 177:4, 186:4,

186:11, 186:15,

186:17, 187:12,

188:9, 203:9, 203:16,

204:17, 212:24,

222:8, 222:17,

235:18, 235:21,

236:12, 236:17,

239:20, 240:20,

240:22

sheet [7] - 13:5,

63:10, 191:2, 191:7,

191:10, 191:13, 246:4

sheets [1] - 52:12

Shelly [3] - 131:8,

131:25, 132:5

SHELLY [3] - 5:8,

131:19, 131:25

shift [1] - 93:14

Shiprock [1] - 93:9

shocking [1] -

153:21

shoot [1] - 109:17

short [9] - 25:5, 63:9,

75:15, 93:14, 112:12,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

32

200:10, 200:19,

207:21, 219:18

short-term [1] -

200:19

shorthand [1] -

250:10

shortly [2] - 15:19,

35:8

shoulder[2] -

161:13, 162:3

show [9] - 39:22,

65:24, 118:21,

138:24, 177:14,

178:6, 184:6, 217:18,

224:5

showed [1] - 178:14

showing [2] -

242:22, 243:23

shown [6] - 85:8,

85:16, 85:17, 116:6,

116:11, 118:7

shows [9] - 84:18,

84:21, 85:2, 85:6,

85:20, 117:5, 117:18,

184:2, 204:25

shut [4] - 105:4,

192:18, 201:17,

214:18

shutdown [15] -

25:5, 26:4, 68:20,

72:3, 72:10, 72:21,

73:20, 73:25, 74:20,

119:14, 137:7, 179:3,

200:9, 218:11, 235:20

shutdowns [1] -

72:12

shuttered [1] -

146:16

shutting [5] - 25:13,

119:6, 119:10, 192:7,

214:3

shy [1] - 239:25

side [8] - 25:8, 61:1,

61:3, 111:7, 111:13,

164:23, 245:8

sides [1] - 25:1

Sierra [5] - 25:3,

146:15, 159:24,

160:19, 161:17

sign [10] - 12:25,

13:4, 25:7, 43:15,

44:8, 48:15, 52:1,

53:25, 63:10, 247:11

sign-in [1] - 63:10

sign-up [1] - 13:4

signed [6] - 12:1,

46:3, 47:16, 64:14,

65:23, 122:18

significant [21] -

20:9, 29:19, 32:25,
33:8, 33:10, 33:12,

35:14, 46:22, 72:20,

72:22, 73:11, 73:25,

74:2, 74:19, 127:21,

148:19, 164:12,

183:21, 187:1, 210:7,

210:22

significantly [6] -

29:14, 33:14, 85:18,

124:15, 145:10, 184:3

signing [1] - 48:11

silence [1] - 12:5

silent [1] - 248:15

Silver [1] - 2:20

similar [7] - 53:4,

84:23, 141:24,

168:21, 171:17,

211:5, 234:10

similarly [2] -

102:21, 230:15

simplify [1] - 246:21

simply [12] - 15:16,

122:13, 124:9,

135:21, 153:6, 153:8,

192:18, 204:23,

209:2, 222:19,

222:20, 237:12

Simultaneous [3] -

239:6, 247:3, 249:11

simultaneously [2] -

41:21, 185:11

single [4] - 25:9,

53:7, 117:22, 152:14

single-source [1] -

117:22

singled [1] - 127:22

SIP [108] - 8:7, 10:3,

14:23, 15:6, 15:8,

15:20, 20:17, 20:21,

21:1, 21:3, 21:17,

22:8, 22:11, 33:7,

33:9, 41:3, 41:5,

41:23, 42:4, 42:10,

45:19, 45:25, 47:13,

48:23, 54:4, 54:7,

54:16, 55:1, 58:8,

64:19, 72:8, 75:19,

81:7, 89:10, 89:16,

104:24, 105:13,

106:1, 110:21,

114:11, 121:25,

122:22, 125:1, 132:9,

148:22, 155:8, 165:9,

165:11, 169:11,

170:13, 176:4, 176:5,

177:1, 177:2, 177:15,

177:17, 177:18,

178:7, 178:9, 178:14,

178:21, 178:23,

179:1, 179:3, 179:6,

179:20, 182:16,

183:16, 183:18,

184:3, 184:5, 185:14,

192:5, 192:6, 192:10,

193:9, 193:14,

193:15, 198:6, 198:7,

198:11, 199:6,

202:18, 204:15,

213:9, 218:3, 221:2,

221:4, 221:11, 222:4,

231:1, 231:5, 234:23,

235:1, 235:5, 236:5,

236:14, 239:12,

240:13, 242:22,

243:12, 246:6, 247:9,

247:18, 248:24

sit [2] - 52:18, 134:8

site [14] - 61:4,

146:22, 180:24,

180:25, 181:11,

189:9, 189:18,

189:20, 190:3, 190:5,

190:21, 191:9,

204:18, 205:7

site-specific [5] -

189:9, 189:18,

189:20, 190:3, 190:21

sitting [2] - 203:2,

216:15

situation [20] - 21:6,

21:14, 26:16, 26:19,

29:5, 32:11, 35:4,

35:5, 36:5, 36:7,

36:10, 47:2, 57:25,

92:10, 152:22, 153:4,

153:5, 156:10, 184:7,

186:6

situations [2] -

35:22, 50:9

six [7] - 85:22, 85:23,

85:25, 86:2, 113:20,

113:22, 233:25

SJGS [1] - 133:21

skill [2] - 155:16,

157:1

skip [1] - 175:25

slight [1] - 231:6

slightly [2] - 122:1,

196:6

slip [1] - 83:13

slower [1] - 181:7

sludge [1] - 159:12

small [2] - 57:17,

127:16

SNCR [22] - 19:24,

30:23, 68:24, 72:8,

72:9, 73:21, 73:24,

79:2, 79:14, 79:15,

83:13, 123:6, 136:16,

137:9, 137:11, 176:6,

178:24, 179:19,

180:7, 183:10, 198:12

SNCRs [3] - 177:16,

179:20, 182:3

so-and-so [1] -

222:12

SO2 [13] - 69:1, 74:4,

75:2, 124:15, 125:14,

198:21, 198:25,

199:2, 199:4, 199:12,

199:14, 199:18,

234:10

social [2] - 231:19,

242:2

society [1] - 189:1

soil [1] - 67:21

solar [6] - 91:9,

91:25, 92:2, 92:5,

147:1, 147:21

sole [2] - 216:8,

248:11

solely [1] - 243:10

solid [3] - 72:23,

74:13, 233:15

solution [7] - 101:16,

102:3, 102:23,

103:18, 153:25,

154:4, 184:7

solutions [2] - 102:9,

103:7

solve [1] - 46:5

someone [4] - 31:22,

31:23, 58:23, 193:19

sometime [2] -

128:24, 217:7

sometimes [2] -

103:6, 144:8

somewhat [5] -

40:18, 58:5, 58:10,

216:1, 235:15

somewhere [3] -

37:2, 136:3, 210:12

SONNTAG [4] - 4:22,

104:1, 104:3, 104:9

Sonntag [2] - 104:9,

104:13

soon [1] - 146:16

soon-to-be [1] -

146:16

sorry [15] - 11:2,

37:10, 45:20, 57:24,

63:12, 63:13, 72:25,

150:25, 173:18,

196:8, 212:16,

223:16, 223:18,

233:6, 248:3

sort [5] - 185:4,

186:6, 200:6, 205:1,

221:24

sound [2] - 60:16,

121:23

Source [1] - 175:13

source [7] - 16:11,

70:17, 70:20, 117:22,

117:23, 241:17,

241:18

sources [9] - 101:24,

117:3, 117:14,

117:19, 117:25,

127:7, 231:20, 242:3,

242:6

South [1] - 38:11

south [1] - 140:5

Southern [1] - 200:5

Southwest [1] - 2:20

SOx [1] - 211:3

speaker [2] - 99:2,

100:17

speaking [4] - 32:20,

95:6, 146:9, 148:10

special [1] - 189:17

specializing [1] -

172:11

specific [16] - 49:18,

62:10, 62:21, 70:4,

128:13, 129:22,

189:2, 189:9, 189:18,

189:20, 190:3,

190:21, 221:3, 222:9,

222:17, 233:16

specifically [17] -

20:14, 22:1, 28:22,

39:16, 39:18, 62:11,

85:12, 165:10,

165:14, 172:11,

176:25, 189:6, 190:3,

197:7, 199:1, 222:10,

231:2

specificity [2] -

51:20, 51:22

specified [1] - 193:1

specifies [2] - 113:2,

192:24

speculate [1] - 214:8

speculation [1] -

220:6

speech [1] - 10:10

spell [21] - 88:16,

92:25, 95:21, 100:10,

104:7, 106:25,

131:23, 139:24,

143:9, 150:5, 155:5,

157:13, 158:21,

167:18, 171:4, 173:4,

195:6, 207:7, 224:15,

227:8, 227:13

spelled [2] - 186:14,

207:8

spend [2] - 93:20,

184:9

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

33

spent [9] - 19:4,

21:4, 30:20, 94:22,

148:2, 158:1, 161:16,

190:18, 245:11

spirit [1] - 59:3

spot [3] - 49:21,

96:7, 97:10

spreadsheets [1] -

120:7

Square [1] - 209:7

ss [1] - 250:2

St [1] - 2:10

staff [2] - 40:20,

165:23

stakeholder[1] -

141:5

stakeholders [4] -

23:25, 33:24, 154:4,

156:12

stamp [2] - 134:14

stance [1] - 226:13

stand [4] - 36:19,

86:18, 144:13, 191:10

Standards [1] -

180:13

standards [5] -

58:20, 58:22, 97:15,

162:7, 162:8

standpoint [1] -

165:1

start [13] - 19:6,

50:12, 66:11, 74:10,

88:10, 110:7, 132:21,

138:13, 156:1,

162:14, 164:25,

167:10, 229:21

start-up [1] - 74:10

started [4] - 31:8,

39:5, 109:24, 186:23

starting [4] - 10:9,

52:10, 118:20, 226:8

STATE [3] - 1:1, 1:4,

250:1

state [136] - 15:2,

15:14, 16:25, 19:17,

20:18, 21:9, 21:13,

21:15, 21:21, 22:3,

22:7, 23:17, 23:18,

23:22, 25:15, 25:24,

26:1, 26:12, 26:20,

27:10, 27:15, 27:17,

27:20, 28:9, 28:15,

30:19, 32:15, 33:21,

34:3, 34:12, 34:14,

35:4, 36:9, 36:10,

36:18, 37:21, 40:4,

43:12, 45:10, 46:5,

46:20, 47:4, 47:21,

51:18, 52:7, 56:10,

56:23, 57:18, 57:25,
58:8, 67:9, 72:8,

72:18, 73:12, 73:19,

73:20, 74:16, 75:9,

77:7, 81:19, 85:1,

85:3, 85:9, 85:12,

85:17, 85:24, 86:4,

86:8, 88:16, 92:1,

92:25, 93:25, 95:21,

99:10, 100:10,

100:23, 101:19,

102:5, 102:7, 103:12,

103:15, 104:7,

104:16, 105:9,

106:25, 107:7, 109:6,

125:20, 127:9,

131:23, 134:11,

135:9, 136:9, 136:15,

136:21, 136:24,

137:2, 137:8, 137:15,

137:17, 138:4,

139:24, 143:9,

146:11, 147:17,

150:14, 150:24,

153:24, 155:5,

157:13, 164:14,

167:18, 167:21,

171:4, 173:3, 180:22,

195:6, 195:9, 207:6,

210:2, 210:25,

211:11, 211:15,

211:23, 212:1,

224:15, 227:8, 228:7,

228:13, 232:12,

233:4, 233:8, 233:21,

234:17

State [77] - 7:11,

10:3, 10:21, 15:17,

16:7, 16:14, 18:13,

18:17, 19:17, 21:21,

23:1, 23:6, 23:9,

24:15, 27:2, 27:6,

27:22, 28:2, 28:4,

31:13, 31:14, 32:19,

32:24, 33:18, 33:19,

36:1, 38:10, 38:11,

38:16, 39:8, 39:14,

39:24, 47:18, 52:16,

77:18, 81:4, 93:5,

94:14, 96:2, 98:3,

98:8, 99:15, 100:2,

103:19, 104:21,

107:22, 126:18,

132:8, 134:16,

140:21, 140:22,

142:6, 142:24,

144:20, 145:19,

150:11, 152:5,

152:18, 158:21,

160:8, 161:7, 163:19,

172:7, 172:13,

181:19, 182:2,

195:23, 204:20,

208:2, 210:3, 210:8,

210:16, 226:19,

226:25, 227:21,

232:6, 234:20

state's [11] - 19:24,

20:9, 20:11, 20:14,

25:20, 27:13, 31:4,

35:12, 50:17, 51:25,

151:18

state-approved [1] -

164:14

state-driven [2] -

23:18, 36:18

state-of-the-art [1] -

180:22

statement [24] -

10:12, 20:15, 128:25,

167:5, 171:25,

200:24, 217:20,

217:21, 221:24,

230:4, 230:16,

230:18, 235:7, 237:3,

238:6, 242:17, 243:5,

243:8, 247:6, 247:11,

248:6, 248:9, 248:17,

248:20

Statement [2] - 8:6,

247:8

statements [7] -

36:4, 47:24, 120:2,

153:13, 224:1,

229:20, 242:19

states [16] - 22:10,

38:13, 40:8, 48:5,

57:4, 57:8, 58:21,

70:18, 70:21, 70:23,

116:25, 126:9,

126:13, 126:17,

153:18, 156:5

States [3] - 40:5,

127:17, 196:15

states' [1] - 58:24

statewide [4] -

46:21, 46:22, 104:18,

153:15

station [5] - 29:20,

41:18, 96:25, 99:1,

108:11

STATION [1] - 1:5

Station [76] - 7:14,

10:6, 10:22, 15:1,

15:10, 15:12, 15:18,

19:20, 20:5, 22:12,

25:6, 25:13, 29:10,

29:12, 30:5, 30:9,

30:16, 33:16, 68:1,

70:11, 71:16, 73:22,

77:23, 79:3, 81:5,

82:9, 93:6, 96:13,

104:22, 107:5,

107:16, 108:1, 109:7,

117:11, 117:23,

127:5, 129:19, 132:9,

133:3, 133:13,

133:22, 134:22,

135:4, 137:7, 137:11,

140:20, 140:22,

140:24, 141:24,

142:7, 142:13,

142:16, 142:25,

143:2, 144:21,

145:20, 150:12,

151:1, 156:2, 164:10,

165:14, 166:22,

169:12, 175:8,

183:15, 197:8,

197:12, 203:22,

210:6, 225:17,

225:23, 226:1,

226:20, 227:1, 228:8,

239:15

stations [3] - 89:9,

102:20, 160:25

statute [1] - 58:20

statutory [2] - 58:25,

232:9

stay [5] - 37:9, 66:2,

108:2, 215:8, 239:2

stealth [1] - 89:8

steel [1] - 181:15

Step [5] - 70:18,

70:21, 70:23, 71:21,

71:24

step [20] - 40:17,

41:10, 41:13, 71:3,

71:10, 71:15, 71:16,

72:4, 73:8, 137:18,

165:5, 166:9, 175:23,

176:9, 179:22,

179:23, 180:10,

241:11

stepped [1] - 151:8

stepping [1] - 40:20

steps [3] - 70:13,

70:16, 71:19

Steve [1] - 95:23

STEVE [4] - 4:18,

88:7, 95:17, 95:24

stew [1] - 138:19

still [18] - 15:24,

16:9, 27:17, 51:5,

89:14, 89:22, 90:4,

90:12, 90:21, 93:19,

126:4, 137:12,

149:11, 162:1,

213:22, 228:23,

243:13, 248:8

stipulate [1] - 221:19

stipulation [1] -

221:25

stole [1] - 102:16

Stone [1] - 198:8

stone's [1] - 93:10

stop [2] - 155:23,

162:18

stored [1] - 219:24

strategic [1] - 195:14

strategy [4] - 59:9,

168:5, 199:18, 205:4

STRATVERT [1] -

2:14

stream [3] - 79:16,

79:19, 161:1

strengths [1] -

107:13

strike [4] - 27:25,

107:10, 200:15, 209:7

stringent [1] -

180:22

strong [5] - 24:25,

27:18, 58:23, 96:19,

140:13

strongest [2] -

101:6, 235:3

strongly [3] - 54:24,

210:8, 228:9

structural [1] -

181:14

structure [3] - 46:25,

187:23, 197:12

struggled [1] - 98:19

struggling [1] -

192:2

student [1] - 96:13

studied [1] - 127:19

studies [6] - 67:19,

169:4, 171:17, 208:8,

219:3, 244:11

stuff [9] - 93:12,

93:17, 94:1, 94:6,

157:2, 159:17,

160:12, 160:20, 161:3

styled [1] - 39:14

subcontractors [1] -

133:24

subject [10] - 11:13,

11:15, 16:12, 49:16,

70:17, 70:20, 166:3,

221:5, 222:10, 222:21

subjects [2] -

231:20, 242:3

submission [1] -

21:1

submit [8] - 21:3,

21:20, 23:6, 41:23,

42:3, 70:6, 78:10,

82:15

submittal [18] -

20:18, 20:19, 20:21,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

34

22:8, 22:14, 38:16,

64:4, 68:4, 68:6,

68:13, 72:2, 72:5,

72:12, 72:19, 73:10,

182:17, 192:25

submittals [1] - 68:4

submitted [26] -

7:17, 7:19, 19:17,

21:18, 22:3, 22:11,

22:18, 23:20, 26:21,

27:6, 27:23, 38:18,

38:19, 42:2, 52:6,

52:8, 73:12, 83:16,

166:11, 171:22,

193:14, 193:24,

195:25, 207:21,

231:3, 231:5

Submitted [4] - 8:11,

8:16, 8:22, 9:5

submitting [2] -

45:9, 45:11

substance [1] -

219:7

substantial [2] -

99:22, 142:12

substantially [3] -

72:17, 73:9, 80:16

substantive [3] -

55:2, 55:22, 235:4

successful [3] -

41:21, 56:24, 243:11

successfully [1] -

34:7

suffering [2] - 134:7,

134:14

sufficient [4] -

232:18, 241:7,

247:19, 248:25

suggest [3] - 102:2,

187:5, 222:19

suggested [2] -

239:17, 241:11

suggesting [1] -

198:16

suing [1] - 36:16

suit [5] - 22:20,

22:23, 23:2, 39:13,

102:22

Suite [2] - 2:10, 2:16

suits [2] - 58:1,

101:6

sulfur[5] - 15:13,

33:13, 124:2, 136:22,

211:16

summarize [7] -

73:18, 168:12, 172:3,

173:21, 182:1,

195:18, 207:24

summarized [2] -

242:11, 242:13
summary [7] - 17:2,

120:3, 171:25, 175:8,

179:8, 202:21, 213:15

summer [3] - 89:3,

107:25, 108:19

superior[6] - 33:18,

150:14, 211:13,

233:9, 234:1, 242:23

superiority [1] -

233:4

superscript [1] -

196:7

supersede [2] -

41:24, 42:1

supervising [1] -

173:15

supplied [2] - 72:6,

176:18

supplier[1] - 225:18

supplies [1] - 93:16

supply [4] - 144:2,

200:7, 213:16, 230:17

support [54] - 18:13,

18:17, 22:16, 34:21,

34:22, 34:23, 34:24,

48:16, 58:25, 91:23,

93:5, 93:7, 95:13,

95:14, 102:5, 102:21,

103:19, 104:20,

105:12, 105:18,

107:7, 109:6, 132:8,

132:19, 142:5,

142:23, 143:2,

144:19, 145:2,

145:18, 152:5,

152:18, 155:8, 157:6,

157:7, 163:19, 169:4,

175:9, 176:19,

193:21, 194:1,

226:24, 228:6, 228:8,

228:13, 228:19,

237:20, 240:24,

241:8, 243:24, 245:4,

246:5

Support [3] - 8:13,

8:17, 9:7

supported [3] -

94:13, 168:19, 203:3

supporter[1] - 58:24

supporting [1] -

161:12

supportive [4] -

136:8, 137:17,

193:11, 193:14

supports [8] - 16:25,

21:15, 35:13, 132:14,

182:13, 210:8,

210:15, 212:1

supposedly [1] -

89:5

surely [1] - 39:6

surface [1] - 99:19

surprised [1] -

240:18

susceptible [1] -

206:5

suspected [1] -

229:3

sustaining [1] -

140:13

swaps [1] - 200:18

swear [2] - 51:9,

167:7

switch [1] - 99:18

switching [1] -

119:20

sworn [38] - 16:21,

17:13, 18:2, 67:1,

67:5, 77:2, 81:14,

87:22, 88:8, 88:13,

92:22, 95:18, 100:7,

104:2, 104:4, 106:22,

110:3, 131:20,

139:19, 139:21,

143:6, 146:2, 149:20,

150:2, 151:22, 155:2,

157:10, 158:18,

167:9, 167:13,

172:24, 194:19,

195:2, 206:24, 207:2,

224:12, 227:5, 250:9

system [3] - 115:18,

152:9, 199:10

systems [1] - 103:13

T

tab [1] - 90:25

Table [12] - 85:17,

85:20, 86:6, 86:10,

114:22, 115:3,

118:20, 170:11,

170:14, 196:6,

196:10, 200:3

table [14] - 47:19,

85:22, 88:2, 88:11,

115:15, 116:6,

116:11, 117:9,

117:15, 117:17,

118:8, 183:2, 183:24,

211:10

tacos [1] - 138:19

tag [1] - 210:12

talks [1] - 201:2

targeted [1] - 79:21

task [3] - 155:14,

156:22, 228:16

taught [1] - 144:6

Tax [1] - 201:10

tax [2] - 201:24,

201:25

taxes [2] - 93:22,

201:15

taxpayers [3] -

23:13, 134:8, 148:5

Taylor [2] - 34:23,

156:16

Taylor's [1] - 157:4

team [3] - 179:24,

179:25, 229:11

tear [1] - 147:20

Tec [1] - 7:22

Technical [1] -

108:20

technical [29] - 12:8,

12:10, 13:15, 14:3,

17:1, 17:16, 24:7,

24:8, 32:25, 33:23,

37:8, 45:7, 59:16,

67:13, 68:3, 68:19,

78:3, 81:11, 111:12,

120:1, 120:3, 130:5,

155:17, 157:2, 170:5,

176:18, 210:18,

242:4, 245:8

technically [2] -

70:22, 71:21

technologies [12] -

30:22, 70:19, 70:22,

71:13, 71:20, 71:22,

84:5, 84:14, 141:4,

173:16, 173:20,

175:20

technology [40] -

19:23, 20:7, 20:8,

29:16, 68:25, 71:2,

71:5, 71:6, 71:9, 73:7,

79:2, 80:4, 82:13,

84:10, 101:25,

119:17, 120:10,

129:18, 129:24,

130:4, 130:6, 133:2,

134:21, 140:25,

141:15, 142:11,

169:8, 176:3, 178:19,

178:24, 179:18,

179:22, 180:7,

180:22, 182:14,

193:2, 211:2, 241:17,

241:20, 245:18

Technology [11] -

10:4, 10:22, 14:25,

19:19, 165:13,

168:22, 174:1,

232:13, 232:19,

239:13, 245:11

TECHNOLOGY [1] -

1:5

Ted [3] - 7:21, 13:14,

77:8

TED [5] - 4:10, 5:4,

17:12, 77:1, 110:2

tedious [1] - 228:16

temper [1] - 242:19

temporary [1] -

133:20

ten [1] - 159:14

tend [1] - 190:23

tendency [1] -

188:23

tender [3] - 184:21,

199:21, 222:24

Tennessee [1] - 82:4

tentative [5] - 16:2,

68:7, 90:1, 90:3,

105:7

Tenth [20] - 15:25,

21:25, 23:10, 26:22,

26:24, 27:1, 27:4,

27:19, 27:25, 42:24,

43:2, 43:22, 44:25,

45:5, 59:11, 64:7,

153:4, 166:17, 186:5,

243:11

tenure [1] - 196:15

term [17] - 25:21,

29:11, 29:21, 30:16,

52:12, 78:7, 80:11,

80:12, 80:14, 98:11,

99:4, 114:12, 196:15,

200:19, 206:11,

213:9, 235:4

Term [78] - 7:9, 43:7,

43:24, 44:15, 45:15,

45:24, 46:3, 46:12,

47:8, 47:16, 48:2,

48:17, 48:19, 49:1,

50:25, 52:11, 52:16,

53:1, 54:3, 54:9,

54:16, 54:23, 54:25,

56:8, 56:22, 64:6,

64:8, 64:15, 64:18,

65:1, 65:2, 65:12,

68:9, 68:10, 68:16,

68:19, 68:23, 69:1,

72:1, 78:8, 78:23,

79:1, 79:8, 80:19,

81:7, 111:21, 112:4,

113:2, 114:4, 122:14,

122:16, 123:1, 123:6,

165:7, 166:2, 166:10,

175:11, 177:4, 186:4,

186:11, 186:15,

186:17, 187:12,

188:9, 203:9, 203:16,

204:17, 212:24,

222:8, 222:17,

235:17, 235:21,

236:12, 236:17,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

35

239:20, 240:20,

240:22

terms [34] - 38:16,

54:13, 62:20, 64:3,

65:1, 68:7, 68:17,

71:25, 78:24, 79:11,

96:11, 97:14, 97:22,

99:19, 124:25,

153:20, 154:18,

163:24, 164:15,

164:24, 166:10,

179:12, 186:20,

189:19, 210:24,

211:8, 211:13, 233:8,

233:12, 235:1, 244:9,

244:22, 246:6

terrible [4] - 36:5,

36:7, 46:20, 47:2

test [3] - 79:18,

79:24, 160:18

tested [2] - 129:18,

129:24

testified [31] - 18:3,

34:18, 36:6, 67:6,

70:10, 77:3, 80:22,

81:15, 88:14, 92:23,

95:19, 100:8, 104:5,

106:23, 110:4,

127:11, 131:21,

139:22, 143:7, 146:3,

150:3, 151:23, 155:3,

157:11, 158:19,

167:14, 172:15,

195:3, 207:3, 224:13,

227:6

testify [8] - 18:11,

28:17, 28:20, 33:3,

33:12, 33:21, 38:6,

73:10

testifying [3] - 28:18,

57:3, 168:9

testimony [90] -

11:12, 11:13, 11:15,

12:8, 12:10, 12:14,

14:14, 17:3, 17:9,

18:18, 18:19, 28:18,

33:1, 60:21, 61:2,

61:7, 64:25, 69:4,

69:11, 69:13, 69:14,

69:15, 70:10, 78:11,

78:16, 78:18, 78:21,

82:15, 82:22, 82:24,

83:6, 111:9, 128:17,

149:5, 149:6, 162:15,

164:12, 169:15,

169:19, 169:24,

170:7, 170:11,

170:24, 171:21,

172:19, 172:23,

172:24, 174:7,
174:11, 174:19,

175:5, 180:4, 182:19,

182:22, 183:2,

183:25, 195:25,

196:4, 196:19, 197:4,

197:6, 200:2, 204:4,

204:7, 204:14,

205:13, 205:15,

207:22, 208:17,

208:21, 209:6,

209:11, 209:21,

211:10, 213:25,

215:19, 218:5,

219:21, 223:23,

231:22, 233:11,

233:17, 242:9, 249:3,

249:4, 250:8, 250:10,

250:11

TESTIMONY [18] -

18:4, 88:15, 92:24,

95:20, 100:9, 104:6,

106:24, 131:22,

139:23, 143:8, 146:4,

150:4, 151:24, 155:4,

157:12, 158:20,

224:14, 227:7

Testimony [25] - 4:5,

4:15, 4:17, 4:19, 4:21,

4:23, 4:25, 5:9, 5:11,

5:13, 5:15, 5:17, 5:19,

5:21, 5:23, 5:25, 6:15,

6:17, 7:21, 7:23, 8:4,

8:10, 8:15, 8:20, 9:4

testing [14] - 68:24,

78:22, 78:25, 79:7,

79:12, 79:13, 79:15,

79:22, 79:25, 80:3,

80:9, 80:10, 114:10,

128:22

Texas [3] - 208:6,

208:13, 208:14

Texas-New [1] -

208:13

THE [23] - 1:4, 1:4,

1:5, 36:22, 88:16,

92:25, 95:21, 100:10,

104:7, 106:25,

110:12, 131:23,

139:24, 143:9, 150:5,

155:5, 157:13,

158:21, 185:2,

212:13, 224:15,

227:8, 227:13

theirs [1] - 38:18

theme [1] - 50:24

themselves [1] -

161:17

therefore [4] -

152:15, 210:6, 212:6,

243:24

they've [6] - 55:12,

55:13, 56:23, 93:24,

94:4, 148:15

thinking [1] - 87:3

third [7] - 79:22,

80:8, 80:10, 161:9,

173:1, 181:4, 210:22

thoughts [1] - 230:1

thousand [1] -

170:16

threat [1] - 136:18

three [36] - 13:3,

13:15, 17:1, 20:22,

20:23, 21:11, 22:8,

24:12, 27:15, 38:20,

53:8, 79:13, 83:20,

87:14, 100:19, 111:9,

118:3, 118:8, 120:3,

122:19, 139:2,

140:17, 178:2,

179:11, 179:23,

180:10, 188:2, 196:5,

208:22, 210:1,

210:16, 228:22,

232:25, 240:19,

241:16, 242:4

three-and-a-half [6] -

20:22, 20:23, 21:11,

22:8, 27:15, 38:20

three-page [2] -

120:3, 188:2

three-step [1] -

180:10

three-time [1] -

100:19

three-year [2] -

118:3, 178:2

threshold [1] - 178:4

throughout [6] -

36:15, 103:14,

104:15, 133:12,

189:11, 233:1

throughput [1] -

199:16

throw [1] - 93:10

thrown [1] - 197:24

tie [1] - 53:7

tightening [1] -

124:15

timeline [1] - 212:23

timely [4] - 12:13,

21:20, 166:22, 237:18

timing [3] - 20:19,

123:1, 166:13

TIMOTHY [1] - 2:5

tinker [3] - 164:19,

193:18, 241:1

tired [1] - 229:25

title [7] - 167:22,

171:9, 173:8, 174:15,

195:10, 207:11,

215:20

TNMP [1] - 207:17

TO [1] - 1:4

today [33] - 13:12,

13:25, 15:16, 16:5,

18:9, 35:1, 66:5,

69:15, 78:19, 83:6,

100:4, 124:9, 132:8,

144:18, 162:2,

165:18, 174:20,

183:19, 186:2, 193:5,

193:24, 196:19,

198:5, 211:15, 220:7,

225:4, 226:22,

228:15, 231:22,

239:19, 242:19,

247:14, 247:24

together[2] -

136:12, 230:1

Tom [4] - 34:23,

35:7, 156:16, 157:4

tomorrow [1] - 66:5

ton [10] - 170:8,

170:10, 176:2,

178:14, 183:12,

183:16, 183:19,

183:22

tonight [1] - 238:24

tons [14] - 74:1, 74:5,

74:6, 118:22, 119:13,

119:16, 119:18,

130:25, 131:1,

159:14, 183:5,

183:11, 196:11,

196:13

took [8] - 26:20,

54:23, 169:6, 175:17,

178:18, 179:15,

182:24, 237:17

tooth [1] - 159:11

top [8] - 48:16,

55:13, 85:16, 93:24,

153:2, 181:14,

184:11, 225:14

top-down [1] - 153:2

topic [1] - 188:20

Torrance [1] - 91:22

total [8] - 120:7,

125:14, 160:14,

181:25, 190:25,

198:9, 198:16, 220:16

totally [1] - 147:13

touch [3] - 19:11,

211:21, 242:25

tough [2] - 96:7,

97:10

touted [1] - 48:2

towards [6] - 105:17,

126:17, 145:5, 161:8,

240:23, 245:20

town [3] - 65:25,

139:10, 139:15

Townsend [1] -

11:21

toxic [1] - 219:7

track [2] - 149:12,

187:2

traded [1] - 210:2

trading [1] - 15:13

traditional [1] -

144:7

train [3] - 135:25,

136:2, 145:14

Training [3] - 108:19,

142:20, 145:13

training [6] - 108:22,

135:11, 135:17,

135:24, 151:15,

204:18

transcribed [1] -

11:19

TRANSCRIPT [1] -

1:12

transcript [3] -

11:22, 250:9, 250:11

transcription [2] -

193:23, 239:18

transcriptive [2] -

69:20, 75:11

transition [2] -

28:22, 29:21

transmission [2] -

208:14, 209:24

transparent [1] -

217:14

transpire [1] -

160:12

transport [1] -

103:14

transportation [1] -

99:5

transported [1] -

103:11

travel [1] - 107:20

treated [1] - 80:8

treatment [6] -

129:15, 205:14,

205:17, 205:21,

206:1, 206:4

tremendous [2] -

161:15, 211:3

tremendously [2] -

228:4

trend [1] - 28:24

trends [1] - 29:23

trepidation [1] -

193:17

tribal [1] - 102:13

tribe [2] - 100:24,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

36

103:18

tribes [5] - 100:24,

101:5, 103:4, 103:9,

201:16

trickle [1] - 225:11

trickle-down [1] -

225:11

tried [2] - 192:25,

221:9

true [3] - 61:25,

111:11, 250:11

truly [1] - 243:19

trust [4] - 46:8,

46:10, 47:10

try [16] - 36:17, 37:9,

57:1, 87:13, 100:18,

107:10, 117:8, 149:4,

185:7, 188:6, 198:1,

200:15, 218:10,

230:1, 230:2, 232:1

trying [7] - 23:11,

51:24, 54:17, 57:11,

164:19, 197:25, 206:2

Tse [2] - 107:4, 109:4

turbine [3] - 203:21,

204:3, 204:13

turbines [1] - 91:23

turn [7] - 46:15,

66:22, 159:8, 162:20,

167:6, 223:6, 238:15

turning [1] - 70:9

two [76] - 19:4,

25:18, 26:4, 27:8,

34:20, 52:17, 66:1,

66:20, 72:9, 72:10,

73:20, 73:21, 73:24,

80:5, 87:16, 87:20,

87:21, 92:7, 96:16,

103:23, 105:7,

108:12, 113:22,

114:2, 114:6, 119:7,

119:11, 119:12,

119:17, 120:2, 120:4,

125:2, 139:2, 139:4,

139:13, 142:13,

142:17, 143:18,

144:2, 144:18,

146:20, 147:25,

151:7, 155:14,

160:18, 165:20,

176:6, 177:15,

177:16, 178:15,

178:25, 179:3,

179:20, 179:23,

184:13, 185:10,

192:7, 210:25, 213:1,

213:4, 213:19,

213:20, 224:7, 224:9,

225:22, 226:2,

228:10, 232:15,
241:15, 242:1, 249:2

two-and-a-half [1] -

147:25

two-page [1] - 120:4

two-unit [8] - 26:4,

34:20, 72:10, 73:21,

73:24, 108:12,

142:17, 176:6

two-units [2] - 73:20,

179:3

type [7] - 33:6,

58:24, 112:6, 122:8,

200:20, 206:4, 245:21

types [7] - 91:4,

178:8, 206:6, 206:7,

214:16, 214:22

typically [1] - 22:9

typo [1] - 170:8

typographical [5] -

69:19, 69:21, 75:11,

193:23, 239:18

U

Udall [3] - 35:7, 39:3,

48:13

ultimate [4] - 18:17,

21:17, 53:16, 75:9

ultimately [20] -

19:25, 21:23, 25:15,

27:19, 27:23, 38:25,

41:9, 43:3, 44:4, 47:8,

48:11, 50:19, 50:21,

53:20, 54:1, 62:6,

65:11, 99:14, 166:5,

221:18

unanimous [2] -

247:5, 249:6

undefined [1] -

105:22

under [23] - 11:12,

22:10, 33:7, 44:21,

56:18, 60:22, 69:15,

78:19, 79:8, 83:6,

164:13, 166:1,

170:25, 174:19,

185:8, 186:2, 196:14,

196:20, 199:5,

209:12, 218:13,

231:12, 241:21

undercut [1] - 191:3

underestimating [1]

- 188:25

undergo [1] - 203:23

underlying [1] -

69:24

understandable [1] -

54:13

understood [1] -

118:19

undertaken [1] -

237:16

unemployment [2] -

134:11, 225:10

unfavorably [1] -

64:10

unfortunately [3] -

20:19, 90:2, 127:12

unfunded [1] - 244:8

unit [34] - 25:9, 26:4,

26:6, 31:1, 31:10,

31:18, 32:3, 34:20,

72:10, 73:21, 73:24,

81:22, 81:24, 85:2,

85:5, 85:9, 85:13,

85:18, 85:24, 86:4,

90:13, 92:15, 108:12,

129:4, 137:22,

142:17, 144:12,

170:15, 176:6, 177:4,

200:9, 221:14

Unit [7] - 135:19,

137:7, 200:4, 200:12,

203:23, 226:2

United [2] - 40:5,

127:17

units [55] - 19:22,

25:13, 25:18, 30:18,

31:2, 31:6, 31:16,

32:11, 41:18, 72:14,

73:20, 74:7, 79:4,

80:6, 90:18, 90:24,

92:8, 105:8, 105:11,

108:2, 119:7, 119:11,

119:12, 119:17,

123:7, 129:8, 129:10,

133:2, 134:22,

137:12, 140:23,

141:4, 142:13,

146:16, 146:20,

146:21, 146:24,

151:7, 165:20,

168:18, 177:16,

179:3, 179:20, 182:6,

192:8, 200:4, 206:5,

210:25, 211:2,

213:20, 213:21,

218:11, 226:2, 226:16

Units [32] - 61:22,

68:20, 68:22, 72:3,

72:13, 72:21, 73:5,

73:7, 74:20, 79:3,

90:8, 90:17, 91:1,

91:14, 98:17, 119:14,

130:25, 144:24,

181:16, 181:17,

182:3, 201:17,

202:18, 214:4,

214:18, 216:24,

218:10, 218:19,

219:13, 219:25,

220:4, 220:15

University [10] -

67:19, 67:20, 82:3,

107:22, 108:21,

172:8, 173:25, 174:2,

195:22, 208:3

unless [1] - 175:25

unlike [3] - 25:20,

33:9, 34:12

unlikely [2] - 27:21,

205:23

unpalatable [1] -

99:13

unrealistic [1] -

123:3

unreasonably [1] -

11:8

unreliable [1] - 147:2

unusual [1] - 186:6

unwise [1] - 55:18

up [68] - 13:4, 23:13,

23:21, 24:12, 24:24,

26:20, 36:18, 40:17,

40:20, 58:21, 65:23,

74:10, 74:24, 87:5,

87:15, 91:8, 91:13,

92:16, 93:9, 96:13,

98:25, 99:6, 100:16,

103:24, 107:21,

110:1, 114:15, 120:2,

122:4, 126:2, 133:4,

138:13, 151:8, 154:4,

155:22, 156:1, 158:5,

159:5, 159:10,

161:21, 162:1, 162:6,

162:14, 166:16,

173:20, 178:23,

183:10, 184:9,

184:15, 186:18,

187:4, 188:1, 188:17,

189:5, 189:23,

190:12, 191:20,

194:14, 194:15,

202:15, 211:15,

215:6, 217:3, 227:20,

235:24, 246:2

update [2] - 68:5,

71:18

updated [4] - 68:4,

175:11, 175:14, 177:3

upgrade [3] - 212:21,

213:1, 220:4

upgraded [1] -

212:20

upgrades [1] -

113:22

uphill [1] - 22:6

Upper [3] - 142:22,

224:24, 226:23

upset [2] - 222:5,

242:18

upstream [1] -

160:25

urge [4] - 93:7,

95:13, 164:18, 165:2

US [3] - 7:9, 7:17,

89:18

usage [5] - 74:3,

74:11, 150:16,

211:24, 211:25

useful [4] - 73:3,

73:4, 232:22, 241:18

USEPA [2] - 229:5

users [3] - 101:11,

101:21, 152:9

uses [1] - 80:1

utilities [4] - 147:8,

148:9, 210:1

utility [6] - 62:3,

62:14, 104:16, 156:8,

209:23, 235:10

Utility [3] - 104:14,

104:19, 215:25

utilized [1] - 176:13

utopian [1] - 147:14

V

vacuum [1] - 58:11

vagaries [2] - 64:21,

64:22

vague [1] - 50:14

vagueness [1] -

244:9

value [18] - 85:20,

85:23, 86:1, 115:18,

115:21, 115:23,

115:25, 116:1, 116:3,

116:7, 116:10, 118:6,

118:8, 118:22, 119:4,

231:19, 242:2, 243:8

values [12] - 85:22,

115:15, 116:4, 116:5,

116:8, 116:11, 118:7,

118:9, 118:10,

118:12, 140:14

variable [1] - 181:24

variety [1] - 24:7

various [7] - 56:5,

84:4, 84:13, 169:4,

200:3, 231:23, 231:25

Veatch [16] - 8:20,

14:5, 167:23, 168:3,

169:7, 171:11, 172:9,

175:17, 175:21,

176:13, 179:15,

182:24, 190:19,

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

37

197:25, 198:8, 211:10

Veatch's [1] - 184:10

vegetative [1] -

96:14

velocity [1] - 181:7

vendor[1] - 72:6

vendor-supplied [1]

- 72:6

Verde [8] - 92:5,

116:16, 116:17,

116:22, 117:7, 118:5,

126:8, 146:23

Verdes [1] - 92:7

verification [1] -

176:20

verified [1] - 83:24

version [7] - 16:15,

83:19, 125:5, 125:7,

125:9, 125:11, 231:4

versus [4] - 126:8,

184:4, 189:13, 245:19

veterans [1] - 228:1

via [1] - 12:18

viability [1] - 219:13

viable [3] - 77:25,

92:10, 113:13

vice [10] - 14:1, 14:2,

173:10, 173:13,

186:1, 195:11,

205:10, 207:13,

208:9, 215:20

vice-president [10] -

14:1, 14:2, 173:10,

173:13, 186:1,

195:11, 205:10,

207:13, 208:9, 215:20

victims [2] - 166:25

viewable [1] - 11:24

views [1] - 141:10

violated [1] - 59:3

virtually [2] - 122:14,

233:22

visibility [93] - 20:10,

25:22, 30:25, 32:21,

32:25, 33:4, 33:8,

33:11, 71:6, 71:10,

71:11, 73:8, 73:11,

73:13, 74:18, 76:8,

82:10, 82:12, 82:14,

83:24, 84:4, 84:10,

84:13, 84:15, 84:20,

84:21, 84:22, 85:2,

85:4, 85:11, 85:13,

85:15, 85:19, 85:21,

86:3, 86:8, 89:5, 89:7,

89:15, 89:22, 105:15,

105:23, 105:24,

106:7, 106:10,

115:19, 116:9,

116:10, 116:12,
116:22, 117:3, 117:5,

117:12, 117:13,

117:18, 125:4, 125:8,

125:10, 125:12,

125:21, 125:23,

126:7, 136:17,

136:23, 137:19,

157:22, 158:6,

158:13, 164:5,

164:21, 168:23,

170:5, 176:9, 176:12,

176:14, 177:6,

177:10, 177:17,

177:18, 177:20,

178:12, 178:17,

178:25, 179:2,

183:24, 211:5,

231:18, 233:19,

233:22, 242:1, 242:12

vision [1] - 25:21

Vitae [1] - 7:22

voice [1] - 148:20

void [1] - 123:23

volatile [2] - 74:22,

211:18

VOLKERDING [147] -

2:4, 10:8, 10:13,

10:15, 13:18, 14:7,

14:15, 17:6, 17:11,

17:20, 36:23, 40:25,

51:7, 56:1, 57:1, 57:9,

59:13, 59:18, 59:25,

60:5, 60:10, 63:2,

63:8, 63:16, 63:18,

65:16, 65:20, 66:6,

66:9, 66:19, 70:8,

76:24, 86:19, 86:22,

87:1, 87:9, 87:12,

87:25, 88:10, 92:20,

95:16, 100:5, 103:21,

106:20, 109:9,

109:12, 109:17,

109:22, 110:5,

110:22, 110:25,

117:8, 117:13,

117:17, 118:14,

120:24, 121:20,

122:25, 123:11,

123:14, 123:16,

123:19, 123:22,

124:1, 124:13,

124:16, 124:20,

125:16, 125:19,

125:24, 126:3, 128:1,

128:5, 128:7, 128:10,

130:11, 130:17,

131:2, 131:4, 131:11,

131:16, 138:22,

138:24, 139:8,

139:17, 143:4,

145:22, 148:24,

149:3, 149:9, 151:20,

154:25, 157:8,

158:16, 162:10,

162:13, 162:19,

175:1, 184:23, 185:7,

185:9, 188:14,

191:25, 192:13,

192:15, 193:6, 194:4,

194:8, 194:11,

196:25, 199:23,

200:22, 201:8,

201:14, 201:20,

202:2, 202:7, 206:16,

209:16, 212:11,

212:14, 212:16,

213:6, 213:24, 214:9,

214:12, 214:21,

215:10, 215:13,

223:4, 223:13,

223:16, 223:22,

223:24, 224:5, 227:3,

229:18, 230:21,

236:8, 236:21,

236:23, 238:4, 238:9,

242:16, 247:25,

248:7, 249:8

Volkerding [9] -

10:17, 51:11, 54:20,

56:8, 111:20, 121:11,

122:9, 123:9, 130:23

volume [1] - 181:1

voluntarily [1] -

153:1

volunteer [1] -

150:17

vote [2] - 247:5,

249:6

voted [1] - 183:17

W

wage [1] - 93:25

wages [4] - 94:3,

94:19, 94:20, 94:22

wagging [1] - 57:18

wait [5] - 88:5, 90:7,

147:12, 147:22,

223:15

waiting [1] - 149:11

wake [1] - 227:20

wake-up [1] - 227:20

wants [2] - 215:8,

239:25

War [1] - 25:4

war [2] - 89:8, 91:4

warm [1] - 121:24

warming [2] - 88:22,

91:3

Washington [4] -

100:25, 101:5, 160:3,

228:21

waste [4] - 72:23,

74:13, 233:13, 233:15

watching [1] -

228:25

water [10] - 25:23,

33:15, 72:22, 74:11,

106:12, 136:25,

150:16, 173:16,

211:23, 233:14

Waterflow [2] - 93:9,

158:24

watershed [1] -

150:17

ways [4] - 30:21,

31:9, 58:21, 106:2

web [1] - 12:19

Webster [1] - 198:8

week [1] - 160:18

weighed [1] - 31:3

weight [1] - 241:23

welcome [4] - 54:17,

138:10, 138:17,

143:13

welfare [2] - 231:18,

242:1

wells [3] - 99:6, 99:7,

160:18

west [1] - 107:5

Western [3] - 126:23,

127:2, 146:14

whereas [1] - 17:18

whichever [1] -

92:15

whoa [1] - 227:18

whole [16] - 15:14,

16:14, 89:7, 107:23,

134:25, 138:14,

154:15, 155:10,

158:3, 161:9, 161:19,

200:8, 200:21, 214:2,

222:9, 245:22

wholeheartedly [1] -

58:5

wholesale [1] -

195:16

wholly [1] - 165:20

wide [2] - 84:17,

178:22

willing [5] - 55:11,

62:21, 87:19, 147:20,

221:23

win [1] - 153:3

Wind [2] - 91:15,

91:18

wind [5] - 91:8,

91:22, 92:4, 147:1,

147:21

windmill [2] - 91:18,

91:24

windmills [3] -

91:13, 91:16, 92:8

Window [1] - 138:14

wise [1] - 21:17

wish [4] - 12:2,

21:18, 131:10, 158:9

withdraw [1] - 42:6

witness [11] - 17:18,

63:23, 67:2, 76:21,

81:10, 81:12, 167:11,

185:20, 206:14,

206:18, 206:23

WITNESSES [3] -

4:3, 5:3, 6:3

witnesses [25] -

13:7, 13:15, 13:25,

14:3, 14:20, 16:20,

17:2, 17:5, 17:16,

33:1, 49:21, 67:1,

86:13, 110:8, 111:10,

128:3, 167:6, 169:11,

184:21, 185:4,

194:16, 232:7,

233:21, 250:8, 250:12

witty [1] - 51:9

woman [1] - 102:17

won [1] - 191:4

wonder[2] - 150:21,

189:6

wondered [2] -

228:24, 229:2

wonderful [1] - 132:3

wondering [2] -

102:15, 201:5

word [5] - 42:1,

122:15, 126:5, 209:1,

209:3

wording [1] - 247:19

words [4] - 86:2,

90:12, 204:23, 218:12

wordsmith [1] -

64:17

workers [14] - 94:10,

94:11, 94:20, 132:19,

132:21, 133:20,

133:25, 135:12,

135:14, 225:19,

225:22, 225:24, 226:7

workforce [9] -

31:22, 108:14,

133:18, 135:11,

135:17, 145:15,

225:19, 225:22

Workforce [3] -

108:19, 142:20,

145:12

workgroup [3] -

24:8, 33:23, 78:4

KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

38

works [2] - 17:20,

183:5

world [4] - 58:10,

107:20, 147:14, 161:9

worry [1] - 156:23

worst [3] - 100:16,

116:10, 122:7

worth [3] - 27:17,

113:21, 211:15

wrangling [1] - 89:24

wrap [1] - 103:24

writing [2] - 54:6,

187:15

Written [3] - 7:21,

7:23, 8:4

written [13] - 12:17,

17:2, 69:4, 69:13,

70:9, 78:10, 82:15,

82:22, 82:24, 233:17,

242:10, 249:3

wrote [1] - 156:17

Wyoming [1] - 208:7

X

Xcel [1] - 208:4

Y

year [33] - 18:24,

37:1, 38:18, 74:5,

74:6, 83:21, 84:16,

84:23, 84:24, 113:22,

114:25, 116:2, 118:3,

118:6, 119:16,

128:24, 130:25,

131:1, 134:3, 135:2,

137:9, 148:1, 154:15,

176:23, 178:1, 178:2,

182:8, 196:11,

196:13, 196:16,

201:15

year-by-year [1] -

84:16

years [42] - 19:4,

20:22, 20:23, 21:11,

22:8, 27:15, 32:15,

38:20, 81:24, 89:24,

102:17, 107:9,

107:19, 113:22,

113:24, 114:2, 114:3,

114:6, 140:7, 140:17,

142:19, 143:21,

144:18, 145:14,

156:3, 158:1, 159:4,

168:4, 168:16, 172:9,

174:4, 184:13,

188:22, 195:20,

212:21, 213:1, 213:4,
KATHY TOWNSEND COURT REPORTERS

110 Twelfth Street, Northwest, Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(505) 243-5018 - Fax (505) 243-3606

39

218:2, 218:9, 219:22,

220:5, 228:22

yielded [1] - 148:4

young [1] - 226:8

younger [1] - 93:12

yourself [1] - 215:24

youth [2] - 109:3,

226:12

Z

zero [1] - 148:15

zeroed [2] - 72:3,

72:14