# Date: April 29, 2015

**Case:** Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. Phone: 202-347-3700 Fax: 202-737-3638 Email: info@acefederal.com Internet: www.acefederal.comCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY PUBLIC MEETING COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL PUMPS TEST PROCEDURES MEETING

U.S. Department of Energy Forrestal Building, Room 6E-066 1000 Independence Avenue, SW Washington, DC 20585

9:03 a.m. Wednesday, April 29, 2015Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## Appearances for Department of Energy Meeting 2 3 

## Doug Brookman, Public Solutions, Inc., 4 

## John Cymbalsky, DOE 5 

## Ashley Armstrong, DOE 6 

## Sarah Widder, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory 7 

## Albert F. Huber, Patterson Pumps 8 

## Jiangang Hu, Rockwell Automation 9 

## Joanna Mauer, Appliance Standards Awareness Project 10 

## Mark Menzer, Danfoss 11 

## Brent Ross, Armstrong Fluid Technology 12 

## Aniruddh Roy, Goodman Manufacturing Company, L.P. 13 

## Paul Ruzicka, Xylem 14 

## Mark W. Handzel, Xylem 15 

## Meg Waltner, NRDC 16 

## Prem Vuppuluri, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory 17 

## Mary Anderson, Pacific Gas and Electric Company 18 

## Robert R. Barbour, TACO, INC. 19 

## Mark J. Chaffee, TACO, INC. 20 

## Alex Boesenberg, NEMA 21 

## Rob Boteler, Nidec Motor Corporation 22 

## Daniel E. Delaney, Regal Beloit America, Inc.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## Peter Gaydon, Hydraulic Institute 2 

## Daniel Weintraub, Navigant Consulting 3 

## Jason Lai, Navigant Consulting 4 

## Alison Williams, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory 5 

## Gary Fernstrom, CA IOU's 6 

## Glenn Harrison, USDOJ ATR 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 2 

### (9:11 a.m.) 3 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Please take your seats. 4 

### We're going to begin. Good morning everyone, 5 

### welcome. This is the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking's 6 

### meeting for pumps, the test procedure, and later on 7 

### this afternoon the energy conservation standards. 8 

### meeting. Today is April 29th, 2015 here at the 9 

### Department of Energy at the Forrestal Building in 10 

### Washington, D.C. 11 

### My name's Doug Brookman from Public 12 

### Solutions. Nice to see you here this morning. We 13 

### are going to start this morning with welcoming 14 

### remarks from Ashley Armstrong. 15 

### MS. ARMSTRONG: Good morning, everyone. 16 

### My name is Ashley Armstrong from the Department. I 17 

### oversee the test procedure development and the 18 

### verification testing that the Department does through the 19 

### Appliance Standards Program. We'd like to welcome 20 

### you today to talk about two of our new rulemaking 21 

### efforts with regards to the proposals for the test 22 

### procedures and the standards for commercial andCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## industrial pumps. 2 

## As you know, many of the things that we'll 3 

## be talking about today were the result of a very hard 4 

## group of individuals working together, to come up 5 

## with a consensus on a term sheet that was ultimately 6 

## given to the Department. The Department believes 7 

## that the proposals that you've seen honor the intent 8 

## of those negotiations, if not the wording exactly. 9 

## So we look forward to getting your 10 

## feedback. We welcome you to participate, and we're 11 

## glad you're all here. Thanks. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: We're going to proceed. 13 

## Let's start with introductions as we always do. To 14 

## my immediate left, and you get used to turning the 15 

## microphones both on and off. Please say your name 16 

## and organizational affiliation. 17 

## MR. FERSTROM: I'm Gary Ferstrom, 18 

## representing the California Investor-Owned Utilities, 19 

## which are PG&E, the Southern California Edison 20 

## Company, the San Diego Gas and Electric Company and 21 

## the Southern California Gas Company. They've made 22 

## the microphone cords much shorter than they used toCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## be, so speaking into the microphone is far more 2 

## challenging. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, and it's good 4 

## to speak directly -- get close to those microphones. 5 

## That will be necessary. 6 

## MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler with Nidec Motor 7 

## Corporation in St. Louis, chairman of the NEMA Motor 8 

## Generator Section Energy Committee. 9 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, Rob. 10 

## MR. MENZER: Mark Menzer with Danfoss. 11 

## MR. BARBOUR: Bob Barbour with TACO, 12 

## representing HI. 13 

## MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel with Xylem, 14 

## representing HI. 15 

## MR. HUBER: Al Huber, Patterson Pump 16 

## representing HI. 17 

## MR. RUZICKA: Paul Ruzicka, Xylem, also 18 

## representing HI. 19 

## MR. GAYDON: Peter Gaydon, Hydraulic 20 

## Institute. 21 

## MR. ROSS: Brent Ross, Armstrong Fluid 22 

## Technology.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer, Appliance 2 

## Standards Awareness Project. 3 

## MS. WALTNER: Meg Waltner, Natural 4 

## Resources Defense Council. 5 

## MR. CYMBALSKY: John Cymbalsky, DOE. 6 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Ashley Armstrong, DOE. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Let's see if that -- yes. 8 

## MS. WILLIAMS: Alison Williams, Lawrence 9 

## Berkeley National Labs. 10 

## MR. WEINTRAUB: Daniel Weintraub, 11 

## Navigant. 12 

## MR. LAI: Jason Lai, Navigant. 13 

## MS. WIDDER: Sarah Widder, Pacific 14 

## Northwest National Lab. 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: If you'd please just 16 

## stand and say your name, please. We will have a 17 

## record of the individuals present, so please stand. 18 

## (Off mic introductions.) 19 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Well thanks again. 20 

## Welcome everyone. Glad to see you hear this morning. 21 

## We have a lot of content here today. I'm going to do 22 

## a very brief agenda review, which is in the packetCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## that you have. It's on page three and four. 2 

## Immediately following this agenda review 3 

## and some other brief remarks, is an opportunity for 4 

## stakeholders to make opening statements, brief 5 

## statements here at the outset, opening remarks about 6 

## issues that matter to you, going from there directly 7 

## to regulatory history and scope, then on to metrics, 8 

## and then the determination of pump performance. 9 

## We'll take a break mid-morning, around about eleven 10 

## o'clock or so. 11 

## Following on from there, still on the test 12 

## procedure content, determination of driver efficiency 13 

## and then directly calculation and testing-based 14 

## methods, sampling plan and then burden. Our 15 

## intention is to take lunch around about one o'clock. 16 

## That's a little later than normal, because there's a 17 

## lot of content here, and I'd like to ask for your 18 

## consideration. 19 

## Maybe we in our comments here today can 20 

## try to keep them at a fairly high level, perhaps even 21 

## a conceptual level, and not dive too awfully deep 22 

## until that's absolutely necessary, because otherwiseCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## there is a lot of content to get through here. And 2 

## noting that the Department expects you'll be 3 

## providing detailed written comments, that some of the 4 

## details, the very detailed stuff can come in your 5 

## written comments. 6 

## Don't want to diminish anyone's capacity 7 

## to comment here, but I do want to make sure we get 8 

## through all this content in a timely fashion today. 9 

## So I'd ask for your consideration if you would each 10 

## speak one at a time, say your name for the record 11 

## each time you speak. 12 

## There will be a complete transcript of 13 

## this meeting. If you'd be concise and share the air 14 

## time so we get through all this and keep the focus 15 

## here. I've turned my cell phone on silent. 16 

## Please limit sidebar conversations, and 17 

## webinar participants, we welcome you, and the 18 

## Department of Energy is trying hard to make these 19 

## meetings totally accessible to all via the web. If 20 

## you would keep your telephones on mute and raise your 21 

## hand with the software provided to be recognized to 22 

## speak. And we then, as we unmute you, we should beCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## able to hear you in the room. You can participate in 2 

## this meeting live as you wish to. 3 

## And then finally, I would encourage all 4 

## present, and especially those via the web, please 5 

## make certain to submit your written comments to the 6 

## Department as the other stakeholders here in the room 7 

## are. That will conclude my remarks, and then to 8 

## Ashley Armstrong. 9 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Let's do opening remarks. 10 

## Let's just go ahead and do opening remarks. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Let's do opening 12 

## remarks. Opening Remarks here at the outset, 13 

## comments. Al please. 14 

## MR. HUBER: Al Huber, Hydraulic Institute. 15 

## On behalf of the Hydraulic Institute and its members, 16 

## we wish to thank the Department of Energy for 17 

## allowing us to participate in the ASRAC working 18 

## group, as well as today's hearing. We wish to make 19 

## it clear from the outset of the hearing that we fully 20 

## support the Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working 21 

## Group's term sheet, dated June 18th, 2014. 22 

## We would oppose any change in the scope orCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### covered product, or the energy conservation standard 2 

### of PER-25. These items were clearly vetted by the 3 

### working group and sufficient data and analysis has 4 

### not been performed for other pumps or other 5 

### conservation standards. 6 

### We do, however, believe that there are 7 

### some errors, unanticipated additional requirements 8 

### and needed clarifications in both the test NOPR and 9 

### the energy conservation standard NOPR, which we hope 10 

### to address today. Those include, but are not limited 11 

### to, the standard formula, page 78; data collection 12 

### interval, page 97; and clarification of 42 U.S.C. 13 

### 6314(d), page 20. 14 

### We again request the Department of Energy 15 

### provide a PEI calculator for both the PEI/CL and 16 

### PEI/VL, so that all calculations for PEI are 17 

### performed exactly the same way by all members of the 18 

### pump industry, government agencies and interested 19 

### parties. The Hydraulic Institute will gladly assist 20 

### the Department in the preparation of these 21 

### calculators. 22 

### As always, we actively promote energy efficientCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## use 2 

## of the pumps we manufacture, and we view our 3 

## participation in this rulemaking as evidence of our 4 

## commitment. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, Al. Gary 6 

## Ferstrom, do you have an opening remark. 7 

## MR. FERSTROM: Thank you Doug, I did. On 8 

## behalf of the California Investor-Owned Utilities, 9 

## I'd like to express appreciation, as Ashley did, for 10 

## the hard work that everyone contributed to the 11 

## working group that led to this point. It's very much 12 

## appreciated. 13 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Other 14 

## comments here at the outset? Issues that individuals 15 

## wish to bring to the fore at this point? 16 

## (No response.) 17 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Then we're going 18 

## to proceed with the content in your packet. Ashley 19 

## Armstrong. 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Sure. I'm just going to 21 

## go through a couple of the beginning slides fairly 22 

## quickly for those not familiar with our publicCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## meetings. We put issue boxes throughout the public 2 

## meeting that highlight areas that we're specifically 3 

## seeking comment on. 4 

## Many of those areas will correspond to 5 

## issues boxes that you saw in the two proposed rules 6 

## for today. However, obviously you're welcome to make 7 

## comments or ask questions at any time, and we 8 

## encourage you to do so. 9 

## The next slide is just something for you 10 

## to have to take home. This is used to make comments 11 

## and the dates and the different email boxes. Just so 12 

## a summary slide for reference, because obviously 13 

## we're encouraged to seek comments in response to the 14 

## proposals. 15 

## I'm going to go through the background in 16 

## terms of our statutory authority and the history of 17 

## kind of how we got here relatively quickly, because 18 

## I think we've all discussed that it was -- we all 19 

## heard today that it was the work of some very hard 20 

## individuals that were part of the working group. So 21 

## just generally speaking, EPCA established the program 22 

## for commercial equipment.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## It includes pumps. EPCA authorizes DOE to 2 

## issue standards, test procedures and labeling for 3 

## these covered equipment including pumps. 4 

## Manufacturers use test procedures to underlie the 5 

## representations that they are going to make public 6 

## disclosures of the energy efficiency of their 7 

## products when distributed in commerce in the U.S., as 8 

## well as to certify to the Department compliance upon 9 

## compliance date thereafter of an energy conservation 10 

## standard. 11 

## So next, how did we get here specifically 12 

## for pumps. So currently, DOE doesn't have a test 13 

## procedure or standards for pumps. On June 13th in 14 

## 2011, we initiated the rulemaking, within a request 15 

## for information. We subsequently published a 16 

## framework document that outlines some issues and how 17 

## our regulatory process works. 18 

## And then obviously we have heard a lot 19 

## about this today. In 2013, mid-2013 we formed a 20 

## working group to specifically negotiate the 21 

## definitions, some aspects of the test procedure, as 22 

## well as the specific standard levels for pumps, whichCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## is what we're talking about today. 2 

## So for those that weren't involved, this 3 

## is just a highlight of the members of the working 4 

## group, just so you have it, and this is just a 5 

## history of what happened in the working group. There 6 

## were seven open meetings. They made a lot of 7 

## progress. We have all the materials from the working 8 

## group sessions in our docket, in case anyone's 9 

## interested in terms of how the discussions progressed 10 

## and how they got to the term sheet. 11 

## The term sheet is ultimately also in the 12 

## docket, and referred to throughout the NOPR. What 13 

## we've done today, as you'll see, where we've 14 

## highlighted different issues where we might have made 15 

## minor clarifications to the content coming out of the 16 

## term sheet. But DOE believes in its proposal it 17 

## fully reflects everything that was negotiated in the 18 

## term sheet. 19 

## So before we jump into the actual test 20 

## procedure slides, I did just want to remind everyone 21 

## on the working group's ground rules, and specifically 22 

## I think it's important to highlight Section 4, whichCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## is the agreement. DOE agreed to use the written 2 

## statement in any recommended standard as the basis 3 

## for the NOPR. 4 

## We believe that's what we've done in these 5 

## proposed rules, so the term sheet we do believe is 6 

## fully reflected. Each party then agreed to -- that 7 

## has previously not voted negatively on the final 8 

## agreement agrees not to file negative comments. 9 

## Obviously, we welcome clarifications and 10 

## questions, where you believe that the implementation 11 

## of the regulations is unclear. We want to make sure 12 

## everyone is on the same page. But we just wanted to 13 

## highlight some of the specific terms before we jump 14 

## into the content today. 15 

## So test procedure rulemaking, in terms of 16 

## how we got here. We published the NOPR in March of 17 

## this year. It was subsequently published in Federal 18 

## Register I guess in April. We're having the public 19 

## meeting today. We're accepting written comments from 20 

## all parties, and we encourage any data and questions 21 

## until June 15th, and we do expect to issue the final 22 

## rule by the end of the year.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## So with that, I think Sarah's coming up 2 

## here to talk about this, and I'll follow. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, Sarah Widder. 4 

## MS. WIDDER: All right, good morning 5 

## everyone. Thanks Ashley and everyone for being here. 6 

## The beginning part of these slides and a lot of the 7 

## content we're going to start with is actually related 8 

## to the scope of the pump's test procedure, as well as 9 

## the energy conservation standard, as recommended by 10 

## the working group. 11 

## DOE has proposed in those parallel rules 12 

## that the scope of the energy conservation standard be 13 

## aligned with the test procedure, and so these 14 

## definitional slides are applicable to both rules, and 15 

## they won't be repeated when we talk about the energy 16 

## conservation standard. So just keep that in mind. 17 

## So starting out, first as Ashley 18 

## mentioned, EPCA authorized DOE to set test procedures 19 

## and energy conservation standards for pump as a type 20 

## of covered equipment, but didn't define pump. So the 21 

## first step for the working group and for us in these 22 

## proposed rules was defining pump as a type of coveredCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## equipment. 2 

## That's indicated by blue circle of this 3 

## big universe of pumps in this blue circle, and you'll 4 

## see that consistently throughout the presentation. 5 

## They characterize as sort of the overall scope of any 6 

## pumps that DOE could consider a rulemaking for in the 7 

## future. It's a very broad and large definition. 8 

## The working group and subsequently DOE's 9 

## proposals recommended that the energy conservation 10 

## standard and test procedure we're discussing today 11 

## are limited to a more narrow range of equipment, and 12 

## those specific definitions will be discussed later 13 

## on. 14 

## So here's our first request for comment. 15 

## You'll notice that it's numbered corresponding to the 16 

## issue numbers in the NOPR, at the back of the NOPR 17 

## document. And when you're submitting written 18 

## comments you could note the issue number. That makes 19 

## my life in particular a lot easier to track those 20 

## comments. But as mentioned, you can comment on 21 

## anything. 22 

## So the first request for comment is on theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## proposal to match the scope of the test procedure and 2 

## energy conservation standard, as recommended by the 3 

## working group. Hearing none -- 4 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: If you agree, you can also 5 

## say we agree. It's a good thing. 6 

## (Laughter.) 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: That's what I thought 8 

## would be useful here. Basically, you're seeking 9 

## confirmation that the interpretation here aligns with 10 

## the expectations of the negotiators; correct? Al 11 

## Huber. No comment. 12 

## MR. HUBER: We do agree. 13 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, okay, thank you. 14 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, okay. We're starting 15 

## off on a good foot. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Now these bits of 17 

## confirmation -- 18 

## MS. WIDDER: Positive comments are always 19 

## welcome. 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Right. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: But in addition, as we 22 

## had a working group and we negotiated this to anCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## actual consensus among all members, these bits of 2 

## confirmation now as we press forward are useful and 3 

## relevant, okay. 4 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. Thank you for that. 5 

## The proposed definition discussed in the NOPR is 6 

## presented here. I'll read it aloud. "Pump means 7 

## equipment that is designed to move liquids, which may 8 

## include entrained gases, free solids and totally 9 

## dissolved solids by physical or mechanical action, 10 

## and includes a bare pump and, if included by the 11 

## manufacturer at the time of sale, mechanical 12 

## equipment driver and controls." 13 

## This definition was discussed at length in 14 

## the negotiated rulemaking. It's pretty much verbatim 15 

## what was agreed to in the working group as 16 

## Recommendation No. 1. You'll note that there are two 17 

## slight modifications. Those are indicated in blue 18 

## text, and that will be consistent throughout the 19 

## presentation as well. 20 

## We'll note the recommendation numbers 21 

## where appropriate and any modifications. Do we 22 

## include that is designed for, just to indicate thatCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## the pump, as covered, may not be moving liquids at 2 

## that time, since it's regulated as distributed in 3 

## commerce, and then also at the time of sale, just 4 

## indicating again when these provisions are 5 

## applicable. 6 

## At the table below on the slide is a 7 

## representation of the configurations that are noted 8 

## in the definition. So the definition of pump was 9 

## designed to cover a bare pump sold without a driver, 10 

## a pump sold with a driver, or a bare pump sold with a 11 

## driver and controls. This was a concept that was 12 

## also discussed at length in the working group, and 13 

## the justification for this was that really that all 14 

## those components together are what consume energy and 15 

## accomplish the utility of pumping fluids in the 16 

## field. 17 

## MR. RUZICKA: Sarah? 18 

## MS. WIDDER: Yes. 19 

## MR. RUZICKA: Paul Ruzicka. I have a 20 

## comment. 21 

## MS. WIDDER: Yes. 22 

## MR. RUZICKA: We agree with theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## definitions of the pump, bare pump, mechanical 2 

## equipment and the controls. However, we disagree 3 

## with the wording of entrained gases. Entrained gases 4 

## imply two phase flow, which these machines cannot 5 

## handle, and dissolved gases should be used. 6 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. Dissolved gases? 7 

## MR. RUZICKA: Dissolved gases. 8 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. Thank you for that 9 

## comment. If there are other detailed comments like 10 

## that, we welcome them. But as Doug mentioned, if 11 

## we're getting tight on time, that might be the kind 12 

## of more detailed comment that's very appropriate for 13 

## written comments. But thank you, that's very 14 

## helpful. 15 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. Forgive 16 

## my ignorance, but what's the difference between 17 

## entrained and dissolved? 18 

## MR. RUZICKA: Entrained means you actually 19 

## physically have two-phase, flow. You physically have 20 

## gases passing through the pump, and these pumps can't 21 

## handle it. It will separate and basically cause the 22 

## pump to lose prime.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. FERSTROM: Okay. Thank you very much. 2 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thanks, that's useful. I 3 

## appreciate that. I recall that discussion, wherein 4 

## entrained was used. Back to Sarah. 5 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. So relevant to 6 

## the definition of pump, DOE is also proposing, as 7 

## recommended by the working group, to define specific 8 

## components that comprise the pump, to better describe 9 

## the DOE's proposed regulations. These are bare pump, 10 

## mechanical equipment, driver and control. As was 11 

## already noted, some interested parties agree with 12 

## these proposed definitions. They are pretty much 13 

## verbatim. 14 

## Again, what was proposed by the working 15 

## group in Recommendation No. 2, with a slight 16 

## modification regarding the definition of control. 17 

## Just providing examples of what might be 18 

## considered a control under this definition, and that 19 

## was added to clarify that the definition of control, 20 

## as presented here, is extremely broad, and includes 21 

## anything that would control a driver, whereas DOE has 22 

## proposed additional, more specific controlCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## definitions that are applicable to how to apply the 2 

## test procedure. DOE requests comment on these 3 

## proposed definitions. 4 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Any additional comments 5 

## here? 6 

## (No response.) 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 8 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. 9 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: So we're going to move on 10 

## then. 11 

## MS. WIDDER: Great. So the next 12 

## definition is the definition of a basic model. This 13 

## is the component or the unit of equipment that DOE's 14 

## regulations apply to. So I'll read the definition. 15 

## This is consistent with other commercial equipment 16 

## definitions, with two modifications that are specific 17 

## to pumps. 18 

## So this first part, basic model means all 19 

## units of a given type of covered equipment. That 20 

## would be pumps in this case, or class thereof, 21 

## manufactured by one manufacturer having the same 22 

## primary energy source, and having essentiallyCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## identical electrical, physical and functional or 2 

## hydraulic characteristics that affect energy 3 

## consumption, energy efficiency, water consumption or 4 

## water efficiency. 5 

## That's the general definition of a basic 6 

## model. So any difference in energy consumption, you 7 

## would want to represent the performance of that basic 8 

## model uniquely. The two exceptions for pumps or 9 

## changes to the basic model definition are for RSV and 10 

## VTS pumps. Those are defined at the bottom of the 11 

## slide. 12 

## RSV is very long, and I'm never going to 13 

## say it again. But radial split multi-stage vertical 14 

## in-line diffuser casing pump, and VTS, vertical 15 

## turbine submersible pump. We'll define those and 16 

## additional equipment classes later on. But for those 17 

## two specific proposed pump equipment classes, DOE has 18 

## proposed a specific number of stages that the testing 19 

## will occur at, and in this basic model definition 20 

## we're providing that variation in the number of 21 

## stages for those pumps, do not comprise a 22 

## characteristic that would take you to a differentCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## basic model. 2 

## So an RSV pump with four stages, five 3 

## stages, six stages, would all be rated at the 4 

## proposed number of stages, and the energy consumption 5 

## of all of those different stage iterations would be 6 

## represented by the one tested model with the 7 

## specified number of stages. A similar concept for -- 8 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Can I jump in for a 9 

## second? 10 

## MS. WIDDER: Yeah, go ahead. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Ashley Armstrong. 12 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I'm going to simplify it 13 

## -- 14 

## MS. WIDDER: Sorry. 15 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Because I see a lot of 16 

## faces kind of glossed over. So the basic model is a 17 

## made-up DOE regulatory term. We use it for the 18 

## ability for manufacturers to group individual models 19 

## they may offer for sale into what we call a single 20 

## basic model, for the purposes of defining the rating. 21 

## What it allows you to do is you can group individual 22 

## models, as long as they all have the same certifiedCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## rating. 2 

## You don't want to distinguish between the 3 

## different ratings in the marketplace. It reduces 4 

## your test burden, because you would only have to test 5 

## two of those. But it also is a risk thing, because 6 

## if we find any one of those models non-compliant 7 

## ultimately, it would wipe that basic model out 8 

## completely. So any individual model subsumed. So 9 

## it's a risk versus testing burden. 10 

## The way it's set up is purely at the 11 

## discretion of the manufacturer with two exceptions, 12 

## which Sarah noted that are for pumps. And you know, 13 

## for the impellers, it's on you guys. If you want to 14 

## make representations of different impellers, you may. 15 

## You don't have to. And then obviously it says the 16 

## number of stages has to be different basic models. 17 

## Other than that, it's within your 18 

## discretion. So that's what all that says in a little 19 

## bit more streamlined fashion. 20 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 21 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yes. Paul Ruzicka. I just 22 

## wanted to ask if once again, it is defined as a fullCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## trim, and we all recognize it as we trim that 2 

## impeller, characteristics and efficiency change? 3 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Correct. So it becomes a 4 

## question about whether you want to make 5 

## representations of those efficiency characteristics 6 

## that have changed. 7 

## So if the efficiency -- does that make 8 

## sense though? If you're trying to sell a pump and 9 

## you sell a given pump model with different trims, 10 

## different -- and they have different efficiency 11 

## values we all acknowledge. 12 

## If you don't want to distinguish the 13 

## efficiency values among them when you're selling 14 

## them, you want to sell them all under the full 15 

## diameter efficiency, that's okay. If you want to 16 

## distinguish between them with differing efficiencies 17 

## by trim, then you're also allowed to under a 18 

## different basic model scheme. 19 

## MS. WIDDER: And the thing I would add to 20 

## that, that's totally correct, is that that applies to 21 

## PEI and PER, DOE's regulated metrics. So if you 22 

## wanted to publish PEI for a number of impeller trims,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## that would each be different basic models. Or you 2 

## can just test the full impeller trim, have the PEI at 3 

## full impeller trim and that applies to all pumps with 4 

## a variety of different impeller trims. 5 

## DOE recognizes that there are pump curves 6 

## available at multiple impeller trims, and that's 7 

## okay. That's not related to this basic model 8 

## definition. 9 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 10 

## MR. HUBER: This premise is contrary to 11 

## what we all agreed to. What we agreed to that all 12 

## certification, that all representations to the 13 

## marketplace for PEI would be done at full diameter 14 

## impeller, never at trim diameter impeller. 15 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: That's what this says. 16 

## MR. HUBER: No, it doesn't. 17 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes, it does. 18 

## MR. HUBER: No, it doesn't. You said we 19 

## can report it at trim diameter. 20 

## MS. WIDDER: But you don't have to. 21 

## MR. HUBER: No, I understand that. But we 22 

## think, you know, we could be opening up something weCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## didn't intend to open up. 2 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So you guys are asking us 3 

## to actually close it, and just say that -- 4 

## MR. HUBER: It's full diameter only. 5 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: --you have to do full 6 

## diameter only. 7 

## MR. HUBER: Besides that, if you -- 8 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Why? 9 

## MR. HUBER: Well, for one reason, it makes 10 

## no sense. If you -- if you wanted to certify at a 11 

## trim diameter, it would be less efficient than the 12 

## full diameter. So why would you do that? 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So you don't have to do 14 

## that unless you -- unless you're going to disclose 15 

## that information to your customer. Do you not plan 16 

## to ever disclose that information to your customer? 17 

## MR. HUBER: Well yeah. They would have 18 

## that on a pump curve. 19 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: But not in PEI/PER? 20 

## MR. HUBER: But not in PEI -- 21 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So then this should be a 22 

## non-issue, right?Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. HUBER: Well, I don't know. It's not 2 

## a non-issue. What we originally envisioned, and I 3 

## think the EE NGOs agree with this, is that we would 4 

## only rate each model, each basic model at full 5 

## diameter, for PEI, VL and CL. Now that's all we 6 

## agreed to. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: You would like to make 8 

## sure that this -- 9 

## MR. HUBER: We don't want a discussion of 10 

## impeller trims at all. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: This option, you would 12 

## prefer not to have it open? 13 

## MR. HUBER: Absolutely. 14 

## MS. WIDDER: So instead of "may," we would 15 

## just say "must"? 16 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Well so they have to do 17 

## full impeller. So that's -- it isn't the test 18 

## procedure that you have to do full impeller. There 19 

## is no question about that. That's required. That is 20 

## what the implementation of the working group. This 21 

## allows manufacturers to, if they chose to, make the 22 

## differentiation.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## I'm not sure it matters if you're saying 2 

## no one would ever do it, but okay. We can look at 3 

## it. 4 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Let's make sure and make 5 

## your detailed written comments on this point. Okay, 6 

## Mark. 7 

## MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel from Xylem. So 8 

## I guess, I mean do you have other equipment that 9 

## you've done before that you recommend these for? 10 

## Because you know for us, I think Al said it, you 11 

## know, we publish the trims because our customers can 12 

## pick at trims. But for, you know, for reporting 13 

## purposes, which was really I think our biggest issue, 14 

## reporting is greatly simplified if we only report it 15 

## for full impeller diameter. 16 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. So we -- 17 

## MR. HANDZEL: So it could add to our 18 

## burden significantly. 19 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. We have a variety 20 

## of products, where we have discretionary -- where the 21 

## manufacturer has discretionary kind of, I would say, 22 

## configurations or other types of attributes thatCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### would affect efficiency, that they may report if they 2 

### wish to distinguish in the marketplace 3 

### representations of efficiency. 4 

### So yes, it's very common for the 5 

### Department to set up a scheme where instead of the 6 

### Department dictating, it's allowing manufacturers the 7 

### choice, depending on how they want to sell their 8 

### products. We find that to be a good policy, but 9 

### we've heard your concerns. I don't know that -- it matters 10 

### either way. 11 

### I mean the test procedure is implemented, 12 

### that you have to test with full. So I don't think 13 

### anyone's requiring -- this doesn't require you to 14 

### certify at anything but full. It allows you the 15 

### options here. 16 

### MR. FERSTROM: So this is -- excuse me. 17 

### This is Gary for the California Investor-Owned 18 

### Utilities. I understand the simplicity and 19 

### desirability of perhaps requiring everyone to only 20 

### report that full impeller diameter. 21 

### However, when this equipment is purchased, 22 

### applied, installed, specified, oftentimes a trim isCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## utilized, and the question then becomes is the 2 

## manufacturer going to provide this information to 3 

## their users, yet be precluded from reporting it if 4 

## they wanted to, or alternatively, might they provide 5 

## this information to the users and report it 6 

## voluntarily if they want to? 7 

## When we operate incentive programs, the 8 

## PUC very much likes to have us reference information 9 

## that is reported to a regulatory agency, because 10 

## there's some confidence that that information is 11 

## correct, and if it's simply specified by the 12 

## manufacturer, the PUC believes we don't have 13 

## confidence that that information may be so correct, 14 

## because it's simply a manufacturer assertion or a 15 

## specification. 16 

## So I think our preference would be to 17 

## leave the door open to reporting this information 18 

## voluntarily, if some manufacturers prefer to do so. 19 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Voluntarily? 20 

## MR. FERSTROM: Yes. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: I think you actually did 22 

## a really good job of describing the rationale for allCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## of this. Al, you're next, Al Huber. 2 

## MR. HUBER: The one thing we don't want is 3 

## confusion in the marketplace, and what we -- any pump 4 

## tested at full diameter that has a better efficiency 5 

## will have a better efficiency through its trim. So 6 

## the customer is benefitting from that. But what we 7 

## were supposed to put on our labels or what we had 8 

## agreed to in the term sheet was the PEI/CL or VL, the 9 

## model number and the impeller diameter of the unit. 10 

## Now if you've trimmed it, it shows it. It 11 

## shows that it's trimmed. So the customer knows that 12 

## it's a trim diameter. So -- 13 

## MR. FERSTROM: So -- 14 

## MR. HUBER: And by the way, this is the 15 

## language we agreed to Gary, and we agreed that we 16 

## were only going to do it at full diameter. We never 17 

## discussed trimming it. We were very plain on that 18 

## from the very beginning, and we all agreed to it. 19 

## MR. FERSTROM: Was this the test procedure 20 

## specifically? 21 

## MR. HUBER: It doesn't -- no, this was in 22 

## the rulemaking, but it's --Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## (Off mic comment.) 2 

## MR. HUBER: As Ashley so adequately put 3 

## before, there are a lot of these terms that go back 4 

## and forth between these two. 5 

## MR. FERSTROM: So Al, this is Gary. I 6 

## agree we agreed to it, but I thought what we were 7 

## agreeing to was going to be what would be required 8 

## mandatorily, for lack of a better term, and you know, 9 

## DOE has now come along after the fact and said well, 10 

## we'd like to provide for the capacity to report 11 

## additional information voluntarily. 12 

## I don't think that conflicts with the 13 

## agreement we made, because I thought our agreement 14 

## was around what needed to be reported on a mandatory 15 

## basis. And one more point: you're right, anything 16 

## that reflects a trim is going to be more efficient 17 

## than a full impeller diameter. But for the purpose 18 

## of our rebate programs, we'd like to know how much 19 

## more efficient, not just more efficient. 20 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob Boteler. 21 

## MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler. This isn't too 22 

## far away from what we do with motors. We use the DOECommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## test method that we've agreed, and we test everything 2 

## at 100 percent load. We also then share with our 3 

## customers the performance at 25, 50 and 75 percent 4 

## load, using the DOE test method. But we actually 5 

## test and label at 100 percent load. 6 

## MALE PARTICIPANT: You don't have to do 7 

## the others? 8 

## MR. BOTELER: We don't have to do the 9 

## others, but the market demands that, and DOE has 10 

## already told us, as we know, a lot of motors run 11 

## below the 100 percent load so the customers -- 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: You create the curve, as 13 

## was suggested by Al. Has that created confusion in 14 

## your marketplace? 15 

## MR. HUBER: No, I mean and kind of to 16 

## Gary's point, you know, the delta between a 17 

## non-regulated product and the regulated product 18 

## continues down the curve. It changes a little bit, 19 

## but there is -- the delta is still there. 20 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul, please go ahead. 21 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yes, Paul Ruzicka. We were 22 

## just talking about the form of confusion in theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## marketplace. Since the denominator would be based 2 

## off of full trim, you start trimming it and using 3 

## less power, you're really dropping the numerator 4 

## drastically. So it's artificially going to make 5 

## something look like a much better product than it is 6 

## when it was originally rated for. So that adds a lot 7 

## of confusion in the marketplace. 8 

## So if we market it at full trim, hold it 9 

## full trim, it's much more rational, a much better way 10 

## to keep track of who's got the right and best 11 

## efficient product in terms of the selection to the 12 

## customers. 13 

## MS. WILLIAMS: So this is Alison. I just 14 

## wanted to state that in consideration of that, 15 

## basically what happens is if you decide you want to 16 

## certify different impeller trims as a different basic 17 

## model, the denominator would also reflect that other 18 

## impeller trim. So it would not be -- I know what 19 

## you're talking about, and we thought about that, and 20 

## that's how we basically it scales to the other like 21 

## that. 22 

## So that's the proposal on the table. SoCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## it does scale correctly with the reduce impeller 2 

## trim. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Ashley, do you want to 4 

## add on? 5 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: No. I mean I think we've 6 

## heard the discussion. It's something we can think 7 

## about for certain -- obviously, I think we're on the 8 

## same page as what you're required to do. What you're 9 

## required to do is full impeller. That's what needs 10 

## to be certified. That's what their PEI and PER needs 11 

## to be based on, period. I think it goes to us 12 

## closing the door on discretionary, and from what I 13 

## hear from you guys, you would never do it anyway. 14 

## So whether the door is closed from a 15 

## regulatory standpoint or not, it would never happen, 16 

## from a practical standpoint. But we've definitely 17 

## heard your considerations, and we can talk about it. 18 

## This is just consistent with our regulatory approach. 19 

## In general, we like to provide manufacturers with the 20 

## most flexibility, to let them decide. But we hear 21 

## your concerns so -- 22 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary again. I'dCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## like to add to Ashley's point. Again, our preference 2 

## would be for you to have the capacity to report 3 

## voluntarily. If you chose not to, that's okay. But 4 

## it may turn out that you're precluding yourselves 5 

## from access to some voluntary rebate program 6 

## opportunities, on account of the fact that a 7 

## regulatory commission like to have us use 8 

## specifications that are reported to some regulatory 9 

## agency, so we can have confidence in them. 10 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. I'll take final 11 

## comments. I think that we've pretty much covered 12 

## this now. Go ahead Paul, and then I don't know. 13 

## MR. RUZICKA: The only last comment I want 14 

## to make is that the only regulatory or certification 15 

## or investigation would be performed at full trim, 16 

## full diameter, as required by the standard, and that 17 

## you wouldn't go in and grab a minimum diameter trim 18 

## using the minimum motor requirements, because that 19 

## could give you a totally different picture, and we 20 

## have not investigated that, to be able to answer one 21 

## way or the other whether or not we really do see 22 

## direct changes in PEI ratio.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. ARMSTRONG: So if we're taking about 2 

## -- this is Ashley from DOE. If we were purely asking 3 

## how DOE would enforce its standard, if the standard 4 

## is based on full impeller, we're going to be 5 

## enforcing the full impeller standards. We're going 6 

## to be testing as required, as you are. We're not 7 

## going to do anything different than that. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: You understand DOE's 9 

## rationale here. The construct of this -- 10 

## MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary again for the 11 

## California IOUs. The question, Ashley. If 12 

## information is reported voluntarily, are 13 

## manufacturers not obligated to report that correctly? 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I chose my words carefully 15 

## for a reason. The answer is yes. Obviously, if they 16 

## are -- if they decide voluntarily to report or use, I 17 

## guess use and report readings, that reading must be 18 

## determined in accordance with our test procedure. I 19 

## think that's a different question than enforcing the 20 

## standard, for which the standard is based on full 21 

## load. But yes, proper representations for commercial 22 

## equipment are also within the Department's authority.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. FERSTROM: Okay, thank you. So I just 2 

## wanted again to get to the basis of voluntary rebate 3 

## programs, and the importance of having creditable 4 

## information on which to base our estimates of 5 

## savings. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 7 

## MR. FERSTROM: This has nothing to do with 8 

## the standard or the way measurements are made for the 9 

## standard. It simply has to do with the credibility 10 

## of specifications that are at other operating 11 

## situations. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: We're about to move on. 13 

## Aniruddh? 14 

## MR. ROY: This may be an annoying 15 

## question, but I guess I'll just ask it anyway. So 16 

## based on the definitions that have been provided so 17 

## far, are the pumps in currently regulated products, 18 

## covered products by DOE, also covered by this 19 

## regulation? 20 

## MS. WIDDER: Can you provide an example of 21 

## what you're thinking about? 22 

## MR. ROY: Yes. Like I would say, let'sCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### say rooftop units that may use condensate pumps or -- 2 

### MS. WIDDER: This definition is only 3 

### applicable to pumps, and specifically the scope of 4 

### pumps discussed in the proposed rules. 5 

### MR. ROY: Right, and so that's between one 6 

### and two hundred horsepower. So if you're using let's 7 

### say a one horsepower condensate pump on a rooftop, 8 

### would that be covered? 9 

### MS. WIDDER: If it meets the definition of 10 

### the proposed equipment classes and a lot of other 11 

### exclusionary parameters we're going to discuss later 12 

### on. But if it meets the definitions of the scope 13 

### that we're going to continue to discuss, it would be 14 

### covered by the test procedure and standard, as it was 15 

### distributed in commerce by the manufacturer. So you 16 

### as a purchase of the pump would not -- 17 

### MS. ARMSTRONG: So I think the answer is it 18 

### depends. It depends on the attributes of the specific pump 19 

### model you're talking about. Let us get through all the 20 

### definitions. Our pump definition is very broad, but 21 

### the standards and test procedures as applicable that 22 

### we're talking about today is fairly narrow. So letCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### 1 

## us get through those, and if we still have questions 2 

## at the end, let's take those, because we're going to 3 

## have to understand the specific characteristics. 4 

## But you know, to the extent a given pump 5 

## that may be used in a larger system somewhere meets 6 

## the definitions, it would be covered if it met the 7 

## definitions, and then if it met the specific 8 

## characteristics with the scope, we've defined as 9 

## applicable test procedures and standards, it would 10 

## need to meet those as well. 11 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. I think 12 

## the question goes to double coverage and -- 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I got it. 14 

## MR. FERSTROM: And if I heard your answer 15 

## correctly, if the product is covered by the pump 16 

## regulation, then it must meet the regulation 17 

## regardless of what you put it in. 18 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: We have question from 19 

## someone who's joined us online, Laura Petrillo-Groh 20 

## asks how would a customer differentiate between PEI 21 

## full impeller and PEI trim, and how much trim? 22 

## MS. WIDDER: So I'm going to go onto theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## next slide, and I think this might help a little bit 2 

## describe at least the proposal on the table. So the 3 

## next definition is DOE's proposed definition of full 4 

## impeller, which would apply to all pump models in 5 

## DOE's basic model definition, which has the exception 6 

## of full impeller. 7 

## Full impeller diameter means either the 8 

## maximum diameter and power used with a given pump 9 

## basic model distributed in commerce, or the maximum 10 

## diameter and power referenced in the manufacturer's 11 

## literature for that pump basic model, whichever is 12 

## larger. 13 

## So basically the largest impeller trim that 14 

## pump basic model is distributed in commerce with, or 15 

## representations are made about it. The flexibility 16 

## comes where we are requiring that you test with full 17 

## impeller. If you had, for example, a given pump and 18 

## you sold it with ten different trims, and for 19 

## whatever reason, this is a hypothetical situation, 20 

## you defined the maximum trim, full trim as one basic 21 

## model and then half trim as one basic model, you 22 

## could certify both of those with full trim for thoseCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## two basic models, based on this definition, and I'm 2 

## getting some head nods, so this seems to be making 3 

## sense. 4 

## So it's always full impeller diameter, 5 

## it's just what are you making representations about, 6 

## where the flexibility is coming. So what are you 7 

## defining as full impeller diameter for that model? 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: And you can see the 9 

## comment box there, comment on the proposed definition 10 

## for full impeller with the additional text in blue. 11 

## Comments here. Paul. 12 

## MR. RUZICKA: We accept it. 13 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Thanks for the 14 

## confirmation. That's useful. 15 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So this is a little 16 

## bit more -- this has already been covered by Ashley 17 

## pretty well. But this is just an example of sort of 18 

## the basic model grouping that Ashley was discussing 19 

## previously. 20 

## This is mostly applicable to pumps with 21 

## motors, but this concept applies generally, where 22 

## manufacturers could pair a bare pump in this example,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## with several different motors of varying performance 2 

## characteristics, and to rate these pump and motor 3 

## combinations, manufacturers may rate each pairing of 4 

## a pump and motor as individual basic models. 5 

## So then you would have, in this instance, 6 

## the same bare pump paired with three different 7 

## drivers. They would have varying performance 8 

## characteristics reflective of that specific pairing, 9 

## or you could group all three of those, based on the 10 

## same bare pump, and then you would have to represent 11 

## the efficiency of the least efficient or most 12 

## consumptive combination within that basic model. 13 

## So Ashley's discussed this previously. 14 

## This is just an illustration of where that could 15 

## happen in practice for this industry. We're 16 

## requesting comment on -- we've been discussing the 17 

## proposal to require that all pump models be rated in 18 

## the full impeller configuration only, and how that 19 

## definition works, and the option of rating pumps with 20 

## trimmed impellers as a single basic model or separate 21 

## basic models. 22 

## We've really discussed these in detail, soCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## I don't know that we have additional comments at this 2 

## time. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Any final comments, 4 

## because we will move on now. 5 

## (No response.) 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 7 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So next, that was 8 

## pumps in general. Now we're getting more specific. 9 

## On this slide, we again have the blue circle, which 10 

## describes the universe of pumps that are a covered 11 

## equipment type, and then within that, DOE has defined 12 

## several categories of pumps or ways of 13 

## differentiating different pumps that define more 14 

## specifically what pumps the test procedure and 15 

## standards would apply to. 16 

## So within pumps, DOE is also proposing a 17 

## definition for rotodynamic pumps, to exclude positive 18 

## displacement pumps, and you can see that indicated 19 

## here. So gray in general indicates categories of 20 

## pumps, examples,- this is not a full comprehensive 21 

## image obviously - that would not be subject to the 22 

## proposed test procedure and standards.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## The red defines specific equipment or pump 2 

## categories that would also not be subject to the 3 

## proposed test procedure and standards, but are 4 

## proposed definitions within the test procedure, to 5 

## specifically exclude them and DOE is considering 6 

## specifically dedicated-purpose pool pumps and 7 

## circulators as subsequent rulemakings, as recommended 8 

## by the working group. We'll talk more about that 9 

## later. 10 

## And then in this green circle, we have 11 

## rotodynamic pumps that are equipment classes subject 12 

## to the standards. So the acronyms are here. 13 

## Vertical turbine submersible, RSV we defined earlier, 14 

## end suction close-coupled, end suction frame mounted 15 

## and in-line. This slide provides definitions of those 16 

## five equipment classes, to which DOE is proposing the 17 

## test procedure and standards would be applicable. 18 

## The acronym that's going to be used 19 

## throughout this presentation, and then as recommended 20 

## by the working group, the associated HI nomenclature 21 

## for those five equipment classes. 22 

## DOE developed proposed definitions forCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## these five equipment classes, to clarify specifically 2 

## the equipment to which the test procedure and 3 

## standards would apply, and to make sure that the 4 

## equipment classes were mutually exclusive from each 5 

## other and from pumps not intended to be considered 6 

## within the scope of the test procedure and standards. 7 

## So for example, we want to make sure 8 

## circulators are excluded from the definition of end 9 

## section close-coupled, frame mounted and in-line 10 

## pumps, so they're not covered unnecessarily. So you 11 

## see some color on this slide. I'm going to get into 12 

## the detailed definitions, which are also presented in 13 

## the NOPR next, and this color scheme corresponds to 14 

## aspects of the definition that in DOE's mind 15 

## accomplish these exclusions. 16 

## So green text will refer to parts of the 17 

## definition that specifically exclude circulators 18 

## from, for example, end suction close-coupled 19 

## pumps. Orange will correspond to similarly excluding 20 

## dedicated-purpose pool pumps, and then purple will 21 

## refer to language that on a design basis excludes 22 

## immersible pumps.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### So to accomplish these definitions and 2 

### provide clarity, DOE also proposed definitions for 3 

### rotodynamic pump, end suction pump and single axis 4 

### flow pump. We're going to discuss those first, since 5 

### they're referenced in the subsequent definitions of 6 

### the equipment classes. 7 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: I want to just provide a 8 

### moment for everybody to read this slide, give you a 9 

### chance to just process this information. But we're 10 

### differentiating with this color scheme here. So 11 

### let's make sure everybody's on the same page before 12 

### we proceed. 13 

### MS. WIDDER: It will come up later on too. 14 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, okay. Okay, yeah. 15 

### MS. WIDDER: Okay, all right. So 16 

### rotodynamic pump. These are -- I'm going to go 17 

### through these definitions and then the specific pump 18 

### equipment classes, and then we'll request comment on 19 

### the whole thing. So rotodynamic pump means a pump in 20 

### which energy is continuously imparted to the pumped fluid 21 

### by means of a rotating impeller, propeller or rotor. 22 

### I believe this is consistent with the industryCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## definition for rotodynamic pump. 2 

## End suction pump means a single-stage 3 

## rotodynamic pump, in which the liquid enters the bare 4 

## pump in a direction parallel to the impeller shaft, 5 

## and on the side opposite the bare pump's driver end. 6 

## The liquid is discharged through a volute in a plane 7 

## perpendicular to the shaft. So this is just 8 

## describing the characteristics or the design features 9 

## of specific end suction pumps. We defined this so 10 

## that we could then subsequently define end suction 11 

## close-coupled, end suction frame mounted and 12 

## circulators -- as a type of end suction or category of 13 

## end suction pump that's not one of the covered 14 

## equipment classes. 15 

## Similarly, single axis flow pump means a 16 

## pump in which the liquid inlet of the bare pump is on 17 

## the same axis as the liquid discharge of the bare 18 

## pump. That would be, for example, an in-line pump. 19 

## But this term is defined to specifically characterize 20 

## in-line pumps as an equipment class, versus 21 

## circulators that might also have this design 22 

## characteristic, but are not an in-line pump, asCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## defined. 2 

## Okay, so here we go. End suction -- this 3 

## is a very wordy slide. I apologize for that. These 4 

## definitions are in the NOPR. Really, we're going to 5 

## focus on the colored text, to make sure this is 6 

## accomplishing, in the industry's eyes, the exclusions 7 

## we're hoping for. 8 

## End suction close-coupled pump means an 9 

## end suction pump in which the motor shaft also serves 10 

## as the impeller shaft of the bare pump. The pump 11 

## requires attachment to a rigid foundation to function 12 

## as designed, and cannot function as designed when 13 

## supported only by the supply and discharge piping to 14 

## which it is connected. 15 

## DOE reviewed circulators and other 16 

## commercial industrial pumps, and determined that this 17 

## specific design characteristic is unique to 18 

## circulators, and could be used to clearly 19 

## differentiate for market, industry and DOE 20 

## circulators from other similar end suction close21 

## coupled pumps, end suction frame mounted pumps and 22 

## in-line pumps. So you'll see that terminology in eachCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## of these three definitions. 2 

## Third, the pump does not include a basket 3 

## strainer. DOE, and in accordance with the working 4 

## group definitions, we discussed specific design 5 

## characteristics for dedicated-purpose pool pumps, 6 

## that could be used to differentiate those categories 7 

## of pumps from the equipment classes DOE is 8 

## considering in this rulemaking. So that's part of 9 

## the end suction close-coupled and frame mounted 10 

## definition as well, to exclude dedicated-purpose pool 11 

## pumps. 12 

## Then you can see the HI nomenclature noted 13 

## in the definition as examples of this type of pump. 14 

## DOE noted in the NOPR that where HI nomenclature may 15 

## be slightly inconsistent with the definition, the HI 16 

## or the DOE definition will rule. So the HI 17 

## nomenclature is, as recommended by the working group, 18 

## there to provide clarity, consistency, but is not, 19 

## you know, would not stand up in an enforcement 20 

## case. 21 

## The in-line pump means a single stage, 22 

## single axis flow. There's that term rotodynamicCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### pump in which liquid is discharged through a volute 2 

### in a plane perpendicular to the impeller shaft, and 3 

### the pump requires attachment to a rigid foundation. 4 

### There's the circulator exclusion and the referenced 5 

### HI nomenclature. 6 

### Radial split multi-stage vertical in-line 7 

### diffuser casing pump means a vertically suspended 8 

### multi-stage single axis flow rotodynamic pump in 9 

### which liquid is discharged in a plane perpendicular 10 

### to the impeller shaft. Each bowl or stage consists of 11 

### an impeller and diffuser, and here's the part that 12 

### DOE's intending to exclude immersible pumps. No part 13 

### of the pump is designed to be submerged in the pump 14 

### liquid. 15 

### We have HI-referenced nomenclature, and 16 

### then for VTS pumps, a single-stage or multi-stage 17 

### rotodynamic pump that is designed to be operated with 18 

### the motor, and stages or bowls fully submerged in a 19 

### pump liquid- That's the submersible part - and in 20 

### which each stage of the pump consists of an impeller 21 

### diffuser and liquid - and then you have reference to 22 

### how it moves through pump, to pump fluid, and the referencedCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## HI nomenclature. 2 

## And here's several requests for comment 3 

## that in general are requesting comment on DOE's 4 

## exclusions. Are we accomplishing the exclusions that 5 

## were intended by the working group, the definitions? 6 

## Are we defining the right equipment class, you know. 7 

## If there's specific wording changes, as was noted 8 

## earlier, that might be more appropriate for written 9 

## comments. But I will take them now as well. 10 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: So I think the Department 11 

## has done an excellent job of showing its intentions 12 

## here, and really differentiating with these colors 13 

## what it's trying to do with each of these 14 

## definitions. So comments generally on what's here. 15 

## Paul. 16 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yes, Paul Ruzicka. On the 17 

## both in-line and close-coupled products, the need to 18 

## note Item 2 on both those, these products do not 19 

## require access to a foundation to function. 20 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. 21 

## MR. RUZICKA: And in order to help define 22 

## circulators better, HI has developed a definitionCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## recently, and it's published in ANSI/HI 1.1-1.2-2014, 2 

## which I think will be useful to the Department 3 

## of Energy. 4 

## MS. WIDDER: Thank you. We will consider 5 

## that. We have reviewed those definitions, and would 6 

## appreciate any specificity about unambiguous design 7 

## characteristics, that someone besides a pump 8 

## manufacturer could look at a given pump and determine 9 

## whether or not it was a circulator or an in-line pump, 10 

## if that makes sense. 11 

## The CP1, CP2, CP3 definitions are 12 

## referencing -- were not based on unambiguous design 13 

## characteristics, as far as we could tell. But we 14 

## might not -- we can follow up with you if we have 15 

## additional questions. Thank you for that comment. 16 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary for the 17 

## California IOUs. We agree with HI here, because 18 

## we've observed some circulator pumps indeed do have 19 

## bases, and an improved definition would be useful. 20 

## Secondly, I'm not sure that a strainer basket is the 21 

## defining characteristics of a dedicated-purpose pool 22 

## pump, because I believe there are some pool pumpsCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## that don't have strainer baskets, where the strainer 2 

## basket is a separate item. 3 

## So we should, at a high level, look into 4 

## that, to make sure that we've got the defining 5 

## characteristic to accomplish the purpose you're 6 

## intending to achieve here. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 8 

## Additional thoughts, comments on these definitions? 9 

## Mark. 10 

## MR. HANDZEL: No. I was just going to add 11 

## on to Gary's. Mark Handzel from Xylem. So you know, 12 

## that ^^^^ we never did any discussion of a definition 13 

## of a pool pump, nor did we intend to. We really said 14 

## that that was really up to the pool pump, you know, 15 

## investigation, which was obviously just announced 16 

## this week. 17 

## So you know, it again comes back to the 18 

## application, you know. We sell commercial pool pumps 19 

## that have basket strainers, and we sell commercial 20 

## pool pumps that don't have basket strainers. In our 21 

## eyes, the ones that don't have basket strainers would 22 

## be covered under this regulation that we'reCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## discussing here today. 2 

## But again, it's a matter of semantics and 3 

## something that needs to be defined. 4 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 5 

## MR. HANDZEL: Okay. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. So any 7 

## additional written comments would be helpful. 8 

## MR. HANDZEL: And just to -- Sarah, I 9 

## think, you know, I appreciate your request for 10 

## unambiguous design characteristic on circulators. 11 

## Obviously, we struggled because circulators are in 12 

## general in-line pumps, okay, just very small ones. So 13 

## it's something I think we may need to have a little 14 

## discussion with to talk about further, because it's 15 

## very difficult to -- 16 

## Now we understand why you were putting 17 

## rigid foundation in. We were scratching our heads 18 

## trying to understand why you did that. 19 

## MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 20 

## MR. HANDZEL: But it doesn't work. 21 

## MS. WIDDER: Another thing to consider 22 

## could be a horsepower limitation specific forCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## circulator pumps and pumps that might otherwise be 2 

## circulators. 3 

## MR. HANDZEL: And that is, I think, 4 

## something that we could discuss, you know. We'll 5 

## talk about it on the circulator side, but obviously 6 

## we don't build pumps that are close-coupled or in-line 7 

## pumps, how should I say this? Some of our circulator 8 

## product classifications are, could technically fall 9 

## in-line, but they have slight differences, and that's 10 

## why we don't include them in in-line. 11 

## MS. WIDDER: Right. 12 

## MR. HANDZEL: So we just need to -- 13 

## MS. WIDDER: We need to hear what those 14 

## differences are, if you can break them down. 15 

## MR. HANDZEL: Because if we did that, then 16 

## we could maybe make the break to some horsepower. 17 

## MS. WIDDER: Yep, great. 18 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah, so Paul Ruzicka. 19 

## MR. RUZICKA: And Sarah, just to bring the 20 

## bullets out, because you commented on a power limit. 21 

## So I'll describe the bullets here. The circulator 22 

## pump has a rotating assembly that must beCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## horizontally mounted, okay. It must be supported by 2 

## the piping system. It utilizes special purpose 3 

## motors unique to this pump type, and motor shaft 4 

## power shall not exceed 3.7 kilowatt or five 5 

## horsepower. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Is that from the HI 7 

## definition? 8 

## MR. RUZICKA: That's from the HI 9 

## definition, correct. 10 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Great, thank you. So 11 

## you'll submit those. 12 

## MS. WIDDER: So I will say that one of the 13 

## terms, and I could be misunderstanding, but one of 14 

## the characteristics you defined was supported by the 15 

## piping, which is what we were trying to accomplish 16 

## here. But I'm hearing that that might not be the 17 

## case. 18 

## MR. RUZICKA: Well, you say rigid 19 

## foundation. We interpret a foundation meaning 20 

## fastened to the ground. 21 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. 22 

## MR. RUZICKA: Okay. So maybe we're justCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## not speaking -- 2 

## MS. WIDDER: The same language. 3 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yeah. 4 

## MS. WIDDER: Yeah. We are trying to 5 

## accomplish that bullet that was in the definition, 6 

## which was supported by the piping. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay Al, keep going. 8 

## MR. HUBER: One of the things we don't 9 

## want to happen, and I'm sure DOE doesn't want to 10 

## happen. If someone comes up with end suction pumps 11 

## and says mine doesn't have to be mounted, then they 12 

## would not have to comply with the regulation. I 13 

## think that could be a real problem. 14 

## MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary, or vice-versa 15 

## Al. Someone comes up with a circulator that does 16 

## have to be mounted, all right. 17 

## MR. HUBER: Using the mounting method, we 18 

## think, is probably not the right differentiator here. 19 

## MR. FERSTROM: So we're on the same page 20 

## in terms of cooperation and intent, as you are, and 21 

## we look forward to finding the best way to describe 22 

## this.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 2 

## MS. WIDDER: Great. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark. 4 

## MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel. A comment on 5 

## Issue 12 and, you know, this is a repeat comment that 6 

## we have echoed on the Hydraulic Institute side 7 

## repeatedly, in that we have nomenclatures, ANSI/HI 8 

## nomenclatures for pumps, and we still strongly 9 

## advocate the use of our nomenclature, not introducing 10 

## another new nomenclature as the direction is 11 

## currently going, okay. So I know you're referencing 12 

## ours, but we're just staying stick to one, don't come 13 

## up with a new one. 14 

## MS. WIDDER: So we did want to include 15 

## those. I think our struggle was you've noted that 16 

## these are extremely detailed and specific 17 

## definitions, and the definitions of HI nomenclature 18 

## are not this specific was our struggle. 19 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So this is Ashley. Let me 20 

## tell you a little bit about how we got to here. I 21 

## guarantee you guys didn't struggle nearly as much 22 

## with these definitions as much as our lawyers did,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## when they were trying to review this document before 2 

## it came out. So there was a lot of discussions about 3 

## how we can make the definitions exclusive, how we can 4 

## figure out if a given model, if you are not in the 5 

## pump industry, falls into this bucket or that bucket. 6 

## And while I think your HI language is 7 

## really helpful to you guys, from people that aren't 8 

## necessarily aware of it or aren't engrossed in it 9 

## every day, we kind of needed to also utilize this, 10 

## which has a little more specificity around it, for 11 

## helping us determine which models may be applicable 12 

## or which standards and test procedures may be 13 

## applicable to which model. 14 

## So maybe there's some middle ground there. 15 

## We've had other regulations for other products where 16 

## we've used specific industry nomenclature, that we've 17 

## then reverted from doing that to more 18 

## clarification-type definitions, because we realized 19 

## when we got in ^^^^ when we got to implementing those 20 

## regulations, then people started asking about whether 21 

## my given model is covered. It was very hard for 22 

## people to tell.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. HANDZEL: So just to explain a little 2 

## bit further, our issue is more with the use of the 3 

## ESCC term, and not the ANSI/HI term. So I know the 4 

## problem with the definition, but it's just the, you 5 

## know, the way that you're using those abbreviations 6 

## is contrary to what we do. 7 

## MS. WIDDER: So would you prefer overhung 8 

## close-coupled? 9 

## MR. HANDZEL: Well, our specific product 10 

## category class which, you know, whether it's OH-1, 11 

## OH-2, whatever it is, okay. 12 

## MS. WIDDER: So just say OH-7 pump? 13 

## MR. HANDZEL: Uh-huh. 14 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: And so I'm thinking about 15 

## -- 16 

## (Simultaneous speaking.) 17 

## MS. WIDDER: I just wanted to clarify what 18 

## your suggestion was, yeah. We can definitely 19 

## consider that. 20 

## MR. HANDZEL: Okay. 21 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So is it not efficient to 22 

## have examples, because I think that -- maybe you canCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## help me bridge the gap, but I think we were not 2 

## completely sure if OH-7 pmp was identical in terms of 3 

## defining as our definition is, and maybe that's where 4 

## -- 5 

## MS. WIDDER: And then also -- so for end 6 

## suction frame mounted, for example, there's two 7 

## applicable. So then would we define OH-0 and OH-1 8 

## pump as this? 9 

## MR. HANDZEL: Yes. Of the top of my head, 10 

## I'm sorry. I'm not even as knowledgeable on our own 11 

## categories. 12 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Right. 13 

## MR. HANDZEL: But you know, it's just 14 

## another language that we're creating -- 15 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Do me a favor and take a 16 

## deep dive into this. We went through this for weeks 17 

## here, no doubt weeks, you know, with your language, 18 

## with our language, and we really struggled here, and 19 

## so ultimately found what we came out with, but 20 

## obviously welcome your expertise and comments on 21 

## that, everyone's today. So thank you. 22 

## MR. HANDZEL: Yeah. I mean I can'tCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## specifically comment, like because now you have that 2 

## -- the basket strainer thing in there. So now you've 3 

## got to go back and try to figure out what did that 4 

## just do to our description, you know. So those are 5 

## -- 6 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Right. We were trying to 7 

## -- I mean the task is if you want make changes to the 8 

## definitions, that A, they're mutually exclusive. But 9 

## B, where we decided to limit the scope to not include 10 

## certain things that may otherwise meet the broad 11 

## definition, that it's clear that limiting factor is 12 

## part of the definition so it's out. 13 

## MR. HANDZEL: Okay. Thank you for the 14 

## explanation. It helps. 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Are we ready? 16 

## Joanna. 17 

## MS. MAUER: Just a quick question, Mark. 18 

## I wanted to go back to your comment about the types 19 

## of pool pumps that you saw. You said you saw some 20 

## with a basket strainer and some without. The ones 21 

## that you saw without a basket strainer, are those 22 

## always used for pool applications or --Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. HANDZEL: No. They would be used in 2 

## clean water applications of all types, whether 3 

## they're HVAC, plumbing, you know, any type of 4 

## application. That's why a pool is clean water, you 5 

## know. 6 

## MS. MAUER: Okay. 7 

## MR. HANDZEL: So it just depends how they 8 

## design the system and what they're using it for. 9 

## That basket strainer is obviously to filter solids 10 

## out, so where are they doing that? I think that 11 

## there's lots of different ways to do that. 12 

## MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. So I think 13 

## the defining characteristic of a pool pump has to do 14 

## with the way the motor is mounted to the pump and the 15 

## impeller is attached to the motor shaft. So we need 16 

## to look into what constitutes the defining 17 

## characteristic of a pool pump, and I don't think it's 18 

## the strainer basket. 19 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah Paul. 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: This is Ashley from DOE, 21 

## and you can't see them, but they're all shaking their 22 

## heads at you.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. WIDDER: Right. In case they weren't 2 

## going to speak up next. 3 

## MR. HUBER: We will speak up. What you've 4 

## just described, the pool pump is basically an end 5 

## suction pump and the impeller's attached the same way 6 

## as it was on any other clear water pump, and that's 7 

## why he's saying it would be used in several 8 

## applications. However, conversely it would already be 9 

## covered by this regulation. 10 

## MR. FERSTROM: Okay. Paul, there's 11 

## something that makes the pool pump unique, and then 12 

## you define it. 13 

## MR. RUZICKA: This is Paul Ruzicka. 14 

## Typically, I mean if we're talking about large 15 

## commercial pool pumps that's one thing. I'm not sure 16 

## whether we're going to differentiate between 17 

## residential and large commercial. But pool pumps by 18 

## nature have to have, at least the residential stuff, 19 

## is considered double insulated product. 20 

## In other words, there's no conductive path 21 

## through the water to any contact to the pump, motor 22 

## shaft or frames. It's all basically insulatedCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### through plastic. So that's something that's done on 2 

### the residential side. However, on the commercial 3 

### side that may differ. 4 

### MR. FERSTROM: The product we have in mind 5 

### that we'd like to address and considered to be pool 6 

### pumps are single-phase less -- have I got your 7 

### attention folks? Single-phase less than five 8 

### horsepower, not commercial industrial or commercial 9 

### pool pumps which may be five horsepower. 10 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: So that was Gary. Now to 11 

### Mark. 12 

### MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel from Xylem. So 13 

### Gary, I mean that defines things very well, and 14 

### definitely should be, you know. That's a scope on 15 

### the pool side that needs to be focused on, because we 16 

### understand what you're talking about when you say 17 

### that. 18 

### MR. FERSTROM: Okay. So that's the 19 

### direction we're going in California with the CEC, 20 

### single-phase, less than five horsepower. 21 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. So as you look at the 22 

### issue --Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. ARMSTRONG: Well, let me make one 2 

## clarifying. So what we were trying to do here, so I 3 

## think the DOE could do this two ways. One is we're 4 

## trying to make clear that dedicated-purpose pool 5 

## pumps are out of the scope of this and being saved 6 

## for another day. As you know, we just announced it. 7 

## So if there's a definition that we can 8 

## make clear that those generally are out of the scope 9 

## of this, that would be helpful. To the extent that 10 

## definition gets refined as part of that rulemaking 11 

## that specifically addressed pool pumps, that can 12 

## still happen too. 13 

## But what we're trying to do -- I'm trying, 14 

## I don't know that we need to necessarily, because we 15 

## haven't discussed what the scope of that might look 16 

## like. There are a lot of things, as part of that 17 

## rulemaking, that I think may affect the definition. 18 

## But we're trying to make clear here at least that 19 

## they're not in the scope of this particular set of 20 

## test procedures and standards we're thinking about. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes please. Is it Brent? 22 

## MR. ROSS: Brent Ross, yes. I just wantCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## to make sure one of the original points was not lost, 2 

## and that is HI's position that rigid foundation will 3 

## not work. As an example, on in-line pumps, certainly 4 

## the in-lines right up to 200 horsepower or even 1,000 5 

## horsepower, are mounted just in the pipe and do not 6 

## have a rigid foundation. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 8 

## MS. WIDDER: So that's a great comment, 9 

## and we look forward to working with HI, because we 10 

## really were trying to capture the supply piping 11 

## exclusion definition that they have. And I'll echo 12 

## Ashley, that we can discuss the definition of 13 

## dedicated-purpose pool pump in more specificity in 14 

## that rulemaking. I think right now you want to make 15 

## sure a given pump isn't covered by both. That's the 16 

## biggest concern. 17 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 18 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So I encourage more 19 

## written comments on that. These will be a little bit 20 

## redundant now, but just presenting the specific 21 

## definitions of circulators and dedicated-purpose pool 22 

## pumps that were proposed to be excluded in thisCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## rulemaking. 2 

## As we'll discuss later on and we've 3 

## already brought up, the circulator and dedicated 4 

## purpose pool pump definitions may and probably will 5 

## be refined as part of those prospective rulemakings, 6 

## as recommended by the working group. 7 

## This is really just to ensure that they're 8 

## not part of this test procedure, and we're not 9 

## unintentionally requiring a circulator to comply, 10 

## when that's not what we're proposing to do. So a 11 

## circulator means a pump that is either an end suction 12 

## pump or a single stage, single axis flow 13 

## rotodynamic pump, and has a pump housing that only 14 

## requires the support of the supply and discharge 15 

## piping to which it is connected, without attachment 16 

## to a rigid foundation to function as designed. 17 

## So that we've already discussed how that 18 

## characteristic may not be the appropriate one. We 19 

## will discuss that later on. We look forward to other 20 

## suggestions specifically, and then we do have -- we 21 

## reference the CP1, CP2, CP3 nomenclature that HI 22 

## just released, that was referenced earlier, and thenCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## dedicated-purpose pool pump means an end suction pump 2 

## that is designed specifically to circulate water in a 3 

## pool, and that includes an integrated basket 4 

## strainer. 5 

## We discussed this definition really 6 

## briefly in the working group. We wanted to leave in 7 

## the designed specifically to circulate water in a pool 8 

## to demonstrate that intent, since it is difficult to 9 

## differentiate based on design characteristics that 10 

## are unambiguous. 11 

## But we discussed with the working group 12 

## including the basket strainer, as that 13 

## differentiating, clear, unambiguous characteristic 14 

## that would separate an end suction close-coupled or 15 

## frame mounted pump from a dedicated-purpose pool 16 

## pump. As we've already discussed, we might need to 17 

## work on that also. 18 

## We have an issue requesting comment on 19 

## these proposed definitions, but I think we've 20 

## discussed them in pretty good length. So perhaps 21 

## we'll move on, unless there's anything else pressing. 22 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: I think we're ready toCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## move, yes. 2 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So now moving on from 3 

## those equipment, specific equipment class 4 

## definitions, this slide discusses a few other pump 5 

## categories. Yeah, uh-huh. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark, you're next. Mark, 7 

## use the microphone. 8 

## MS. WIDDER: 32. 9 

## MR. HANDZEL: Questions 13, 14 and 17. 10 

## There you go. Do we -- 11 

## MS. WIDDER: So I had two requests for 12 

## comment slides sort of right in a row. As Doug 13 

## mentioned, we can go through each of these issues in 14 

## detail if you would like to respond to each of them. 15 

## I'm concerned that we may run out of time if we do 16 

## that. There was like 75 requests for comments in the 17 

## NOPR. 18 

## MR. HANDZEL: That's fine, that's fine. 19 

## Then we can go ahead. 20 

## MS. WIDDER: Yeah, great. But if you -- I 21 

## encourage you to go through each issue and respond to 22 

## it in writing.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## CHAIR BROOKMAN: And as Sarah had also 2 

## requested, if you can reference the issue box number, 3 

## that will make it easier for the reviewers to track 4 

## your comments. 5 

## MR. HANDZEL: Yeah, we have that done. 6 

## Thank you. 7 

## MS. WIDDER: Yes. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thanks. We're 9 

## moving on then. 10 

## MS. WIDDER: Great. So moving on, this is 11 

## again specific pump categories that DOE discussed in 12 

## the NOPR, that are not intended to be included in the 13 

## scope of the test procedure and standards being 14 

## discussed today. This is consistent with the working 15 

## group recommendations. 16 

## Axial/mixed flow and positive displacement 17 

## pump, if you recall the big football shape. The 18 

## positive displacement pumps are excluded, because 19 

## they're not a rotodynamic pump. Then axial/mixed 20 

## flow pump, DOE considered the exclusionary parameters 21 

## that we're just going to discuss in a few additional 22 

## slides, regarding specific speed, head, flow and powerCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## limits, and then also the reference to a volute in 2 

## some of the previous pump definitions, and thought 3 

## that those two characteristics would sufficiently 4 

## exclude axial/mixed flow pumps from the scope of the 5 

## test procedure and standards being discussed today. 6 

## We have this request for comment on that 7 

## belief. So that positive displacement pumps are 8 

## excluded. I think that's pretty cut and dried, but 9 

## specifically that axial/mixed flow pumps are 10 

## implicitly excluded, based on the scope parameters 11 

## we'll discuss later on, and the reference of a volute 12 

## in some of the pump definitions. 13 

## So right now, since we have to discuss the 14 

## characteristics first, just keep that in mind when 15 

## you're listening to them. We want to exclude mixed/ 16 

## axial flow pumps, and so if there's different 17 

## additional definitions or terminology we need to 18 

## introduce to do that, we'd request comment and 19 

## suggestions on that. 20 

## Okay. So the scope of pumps discussed in 21 

## the test procedure, proposed coverage under this test 22 

## procedure and standards is sliced and diced in a lotCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## of ways. So here's the big circle, blue circle of 2 

## pumps again, but now we're looking at defining for 3 

## those specific five equipment classes that we already 4 

## presented, limiting the scope of pumps based on the 5 

## pumped fluid. 6 

## This was discussed with the working group 7 

## and recommended in the term sheet. The proposed test 8 

## procedure and standards would be applicable only to 9 

## clean water pumps. You can see several examples of 10 

## pumps that are not clean water pumps in the darker 11 

## blue circle, some clean water pumps that will be 12 

## specifically excluded. 13 

## So these are clean water pumps that would 14 

## otherwise meet DOE's proposed definition of clean 15 

## water pumps, but as per the guidance of the working 16 

## group were not intended to be covered, because of 17 

## their specific application that was unique from the 18 

## categories of pumps considered for this test 19 

## procedure and standards. 20 

## Then the green circle, the clean water 21 

## pumps in this rulemaking. So clean water pump means 22 

## a pump that is designed for use in pumping water,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### 1 

## with a maximum non-absorbent free solid content of 2 

## 0.25 kilograms per cubic meter, and with a maximum 3 

## dissolved solid content of 50 kilograms per cubic 4 

## meter, provided the total gas content of the water 5 

## does not exceed the saturation volume, and 6 

## disregarding any additives necessary to preventing 7 

## the water from freezing at a minimum of minus 10 8 

## degrees Celsius. 9 

## So that takes two discussions we had in 10 

## the working group and puts them together. So in the 11 

## working group, we had defined clean water and clean 12 

## water pump as clean water pump means a pump that's 13 

## designed to pump clean water, and then we defined 14 

## clean water, and this definition just is a little 15 

## more concise, where we put those two concepts 16 

## together. It's also consistent with the EU 17 

## definition of clean water. 18 

## Next, I'm going to present -- well, we 19 

## have a request for comment on the definition for 20 

## clean water pump. The subsequent slide, we'll 21 

## discuss the definition of the six excluded clean 22 

## water pump categories.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel from Xylem. We 2 

## agree with the definition, as agreed to in the 3 

## working group. 4 

## MS. WIDDER: Great. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. I recall a 6 

## significant discussion on all of this. 7 

## MS. WIDDER: Yep. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 9 

## MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. Just as an 10 

## afterthought, it seems -- it's simply a question. 11 

## I'm not disagreeing. 50 kilograms per cubic meter 12 

## seems like an awful lot of dissolved solids. Is that 13 

## really what you guys intended? 14 

## (Off mic comment.) 15 

## DB Paul. 16 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yes. Clean water isn't 17 

## necessarily clean and clear to the eye. We have a 18 

## lot of gray water applications and river water is a 19 

## great example of what you're seeing here. 20 

## MR. FERSTROM: Okay, thank you. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah. Gray water or the 22 

## like. We're proceeding now so --Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So actually I guess I 2 

## didn't. So the slide that presents the definitions 3 

## for nuclear pump, sealless pump, MIL-SPEC pump, 4 

## self-priming pump, fire pump and prime-assist pump we 5 

## weren't going to discuss in detail today, but we can 6 

## if you'd like. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Since they were excluded 8 

## -- 9 

## MS. WIDDER: They're excluded. They are 10 

## defined in the NOPR. So those details are presented 11 

## -- those definitions are presented in detail in NOPR. 12 

## They in general reference specific requirements that 13 

## those pumps need to meet or have. 14 

## For example, MIL-SPEC references MIL-P15 

## 17639F, and if a pump is designed in accordance with 16 

## that military specification, then it would meet DOE's 17 

## definition of MIL-SPEC and be excluded from clean 18 

## water pumps. Similarly fire pump, as proposed by the 19 

## working group, discusses UL and FM certification. 20 

## That was proposed by the working group. 21 

## Self-priming and prime-assist pump 22 

## reference the utility of those pumps, that they don'tCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## need to be reprimed, and nuclear pump, nuclear 2 

## facility pumps reference the specific CFR section 3 

## that describes the design characteristics for pumps 4 

## used in nuclear facilities. I think because we are, 5 

## it is already 10:30, but I can bring up a slide with 6 

## all those definitions, if we wanted to get into any 7 

## of them right now. 8 

## Okay. It's in general consistent with the 9 

## working group recommendations. 10 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: So consistent, while we 11 

## had significant discussion on these definitions as 12 

## well, in trying to find a specification that would 13 

## clarify which pumps we were referring to. But I 14 

## would still encourage, especially the manufacturers 15 

## present, to look carefully at these definitions and 16 

## comment, and particularly your endorsements, your 17 

## reaffirmation that what the Department has come up 18 

## with, it makes sense. That's very helpful. Mark, go 19 

## ahead. 20 

## MR. HANDZEL: Yeah, Mark Handzel. I just 21 

## would say, you know, we have comments on all these, 22 

## but they're basically using HI definitions that areCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## published in our standards and everything. So you 2 

## know, we will certainly include all that commentary 3 

## in our written report. But I -- I mean if anybody 4 

## wanted to see what we're going to say, it's widely 5 

## available. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah. Not at this point, 7 

## and though those comments will be especially helpful 8 

## to the Department, and now we're going to -- noting 9 

## that we have a lot of content, we're going to keep 10 

## moving on. 11 

## MS. WIDDER: All right, great. So the 12 

## specific comments that request detailed remarks, as 13 

## Mark mentioned they're preparing, we appreciate that. 14 

## So now we're getting to the proposed pump parameters, 15 

## or those design characteristics that will further 16 

## limit the scope of pumps considered for this test 17 

## procedure and standard, from those five equipment 18 

## classes designed to pump clean water, and within 19 

## these head flow temperature, full diameter and power 20 

## limitations, and also the rotating speeds. 21 

## These were also discussed and voted on in 22 

## the working group, and are listed here. So the shaftCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## power at the best efficiency point, at full impeller 2 

## diameter for the number of stages required for 3 

## testing to the standard. 4 

## So that's basically back to the basic 5 

## model definition. That basic model is based on full 6 

## impeller and a specific number of stages. So the 7 

## shaft power at best efficiency point for that basic 8 

## model would be between 1 and 200 9 

## horsepower. The best efficiency point flow rate at 10 

## full impeller diameter would be greater than or equal 11 

## to 25 gallons per minute. Head at BEP and full 12 

## impeller diameter less than or equal to 459 feet. 13 

## Design temperature between minus 10 and 120 degrees 14 

## Celsius, and a bowl diameter for VTS pumps of less 15 

## than 6 inches. 16 

## Then the pump's designed to operate, and 17 

## we included the nomenclature designed to, because 18 

## these pumps are not always sold with a motor. So 19 

## it's designed to operate with a specific style of 20 

## motor. So there's four styles listed here. In the 21 

## working group, we had discussed in particular 2 and 22 

## 4-pole induction motors.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## Pole terminology is not really as 2 

## applicable to non-induction motors. So we also 3 

## included a specified speed range for those 4 

## non-induction motors, to accomplish the intent of the 5 

## working group, that those pumps were intended to 6 

## rotate at nominally 1,800 and 3,600 RPM. 7 

## And just for a little clarification, we'll 8 

## get into this later on. The range was selected to be 9 

## consistent with the test procedure. It's plus or 10 

## minus the allowable speed range in the test 11 

## procedure. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 13 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yes, Paul Ruzicka. We just 14 

## wanted to make one comment about the speed. Quite 15 

## frequently it's allocated to the driver speed. We 16 

## wanted to make that statement say "impeller and 17 

## driver speed," because there's numerous products out 18 

## there that are not one to one, in terms of driver 19 

## speed to impeller rotating speed. They're either 20 

## geared or belt or pully. 21 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. And so you're -- just 22 

## making sure I'm understanding your question or yourCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## suggestion, you're clarifying that this referred to 2 

## the driver speed, not the impeller speed? 3 

## MR. RUZICKA: No, referred to the 4 

## impeller. 5 

## MS. WIDDER: The impeller speed not the 6 

## driver speed. 7 

## MR. RUZICKA: Not the driver speed, 8 

## correct. 9 

## MS. WIDDER: Thank you. That's very 10 

## helpful. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Gary Ferstrom. 12 

## MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. I have a 13 

## question about what we decided to do with vertical 14 

## submersibles that may operate at high speed, the ones 15 

## that also have a submersible motor, you know, 16 

## operating above 3,600 RPM multi-stage pumps? 17 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: What's the question? 18 

## MR. FERSTROM: What we decided to do about 19 

## those, whether it was our intention to address them, 20 

## in which case we might have a conflict with the 3,600 21 

## RPM nominal speed -- 22 

## MR. RUZICKA: Multi-stage VTS.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. FERSTROM: I'm thinking of the product 2 

## that Grundfos makes. 3 

## MR. RUZICKA: No, we understand what 4 

## you're talking about Gary. But I guess we're saying, 5 

## you know, most of them are published data based on 6 

## 3,600 RPM. I mean so you're talking about there's 7 

## like they make some solar-powered stuff that's higher 8 

## RPM? No. 9 

## (Off mic comment.) 10 

## MR. FERSTROM: Yeah. I was talking about 11 

## the one that ran around 8,000. I want to make sure 12 

## we don't inadvertently leave a loophole. 13 

## MS. WILLIAMS: So this is Alison. I'm 14 

## positive that we talked about this in the working 15 

## group when -- with Greg Towsley and his product, and 16 

## the agreement was to -- that whatever we have here 17 

## aside from that is sufficient. So we can revisit the 18 

## transcript, but I'm 99 percent positive that was the 19 

## intent, was to not worry about those. 20 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul, go ahead. 21 

## MR. FERSTROM: Well, not worry about it 22 

## means that it might not meet the definition, andCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## therefore it might be excluded, and I'm not sure 2 

## that's the intention of HI, to allow an exclusion for 3 

## this one particular product that happens to operate 4 

## at a higher RPM. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 6 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yes. In the European 7 

## legislation for minimum efficiencies for products 8 

## too, they basically said for pumps that are designed 9 

## for higher operating speeds, they must achieve the 10 

## same performance as the nearest pole speed. In other 11 

## words, if it's a very low speed or a very high speed, 12 

## it's going to have to go to the nearest pole speed to 13 

## be evaluated. 14 

## MR. FERSTROM: Okay. Well I just 15 

## recommend that you guys consider this language with 16 

## respect to that product, such that you get what you 17 

## want. 18 

## MS. WILLIAMS: And this is Alison. I 19 

## mean we will go back and review the transcript, and 20 

## maybe others can as well, just to make sure we're all 21 

## on the same page for that. 22 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. WIDDER: Okay. Consistent with the 2 

## scope limiting parameters discussed previously, DOE 3 

## also proposed a definition of bowl diameter. Just to 4 

## be clear and unambiguous about how that -- oops, why 5 

## don't I go back there -- how that 6 inch threshold 6 

## would be measured on all pumps, consistently 7 

## manufacturer to manufacturer, DOE, anybody conducting 8 

## the DOE test procedure would determine bowl diameter 9 

## in the same way. 10 

## So bowl diameter means the maximum 11 

## dimension of an imaginary straight line passing 12 

## through a plane of the circular shape of the 13 

## intermediate bowl or chamber of the bare pump, that 14 

## is perpendicular to the pump shaft. So the bowl is 15 

## typically perpendicular to pump shaft circle, that 16 

## intersects with the circular shape of the 17 

## intermediate bowl or chamber of the bare pump at both 18 

## of its ends. 19 

## So end to end of the bowl, where the 20 

## intermediate bowl or chamber is as defined in this HI 21 

## document which defines them, what a bowl or chamber 22 

## is for a multi-stage pump.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 2 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yes Sarah. We just think, 3 

## just for best clarification, we would like to change 4 

## that to the outermost diameter. 5 

## MS. WIDDER: Sure, that's a great 6 

## suggestion. We'll consider that. Okay. Any other 7 

## comments or suggestions or bowl diameter at this 8 

## time? 9 

## (No response.) 10 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. Next, we're moving on 11 

## to discussion of pump configurations. 12 

## (Off mic comments.) 13 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Can we take a break now? 14 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, take a break. 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: We've covered a lot of 16 

## ground. We're doing really well. I appreciate all 17 

## the comments. It's now almost 10:45. We'll take a 18 

## 15 minute break, which means we'll resume at 11:00. 19 

## I think you're familiar. You need to wear your badge 20 

## in the building. There's a coffee shop down on the 21 

## ground floor. It takes them a while sometimes. So 22 

## please go there rapidly. There are restrooms bothCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## ends of the hall, and we'll see you back here to 2 

## resume at 11:00. 3 

## (Whereupon, a short break was taken.) 4 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Please take your seats. 5 

## We're going to resume. Brenda has made a request. 6 

## Many of you came in this morning and did not hand a 7 

## business card to Brenda. Some of you did, some of 8 

## you did not. Anyone who's here, if you'd pull out a 9 

## business card and pass it in to Brenda, then the 10 

## Department will make a Xerox copy of all those 11 

## present that will be available to everyone. 12 

## And also, if you're going to be here for 13 

## the afternoon session, which is going to be a 14 

## separate proceeding for the purposes of 15 

## recordkeeping, if you would also hand a second card 16 

## to Brenda, so that that can be included for the 17 

## afternoon. So everybody should have -- that's going 18 

## to be here for the morning and the afternoon, should 19 

## have handed in two business cards to Brenda, and then 20 

## there will be a complete list of all those present. 21 

## Okay, and if you'd do that, and maybe you 22 

## can just grab them now and pass them over towardCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## Brenda. Yes Mark? 2 

## MR. HANDZEL: Doug, can we just get a 3 

## clarification as to who's online listening? 4 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Oh. We have 30 plus 5 

## individuals online. Do you want -- 6 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Do you want to know if a 7 

## specific person's online, or you just want to know -- 8 

## (Off mic comment.) 9 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Oh, he'll be included in 10 

## the -- 11 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: He'll be on a webinar 12 

## report. Like it's a webinar attendee list that we 13 

## put as part of the docket, which will be separate 14 

## from this one, but all in the same docket. So you'll 15 

## be able to see them all. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: And if there was a person 17 

## that you want to know specifically, we could probably 18 

## do that. But otherwise, there's a lot of 19 

## individuals. Okay. So then please hand in a 20 

## business card to Brenda, and we're going to proceed. 21 

## Sarah Widder. 22 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So I am going to noteCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## that we're a little bit behind schedule, which I knew 2 

## would happen, and we have a lot of material to get 3 

## through in hopefully the next two hours. 4 

## So maybe during the break, if you had a 5 

## little bit of time to look through all of the stuff 6 

## that we're going to discuss, and focus your comments 7 

## on those aspects that you think are most productive 8 

## to discuss today, recognizing that we are going to 9 

## consider all of the written comments you submit on 10 

## all of this material. Otherwise, I just don't -- we 11 

## could be here for days. 12 

## So we're going to keep going. I'm going 13 

## to start being a little more high level about 14 

## presenting the slides, and hopefully you guys can be 15 

## a little more high level about your comments, and 16 

## just focus on those particular issues that really 17 

## need to be discussed. 18 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: I would note to support 19 

## Sarah's general frame here, that not being a pump 20 

## expert, but having participated in the negotiations, 21 

## so much of this content looks very familiar to me. 22 

## So I'm hoping we can keep it at a high level.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So the next couple of 2 

## slides discuss the different configurations of pumps 3 

## that DOE is proposing to apply the test procedure and 4 

## energy conservation too. As Doug mentioned, this was 5 

## discussed at length in the working group, that the 6 

## DOE test procedure would apply to pumps sold in a 7 

## bare pump configuration, without a driver, a bare 8 

## pump sold with a driver, and a bare pump sold with a 9 

## driver and controls. 10 

## I'm bringing this up especially now 11 

## because the application of the test procedure is 12 

## specific to these different pump configurations. And 13 

## in addition, DOE is considering different test 14 

## procedures, depending on the type of control and type 15 

## of driver with which the bare pump is sold. 16 

## So in addition to those three primary pump 17 

## configurations, if they're sold -- if the pump is 18 

## being sold with one of the drivers highlighted in 19 

## blue, that would be considered under the bare pump 20 

## and driver test procedure that DOE is proposing, 21 

## either testing or calculation-based. We'll get into 22 

## that in a little bit.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## The orange boxes are not proposed to be 2 

## covered or considered a driver, in terms of applying 3 

## the bare pump and driver test procedure we discussed 4 

## in the working group, and recommended that pumps sold 5 

## with non-electric drivers, for example generators, 6 

## would be rated as a bare pump only. And if they were 7 

## sold with a motor, then they would be sold -- rated 8 

## as a bare pump with a driver with that motor. 9 

## Similarly, a bare pump and driver and controls, the 10 

## blue continuous and non-continuous controls, which 11 

## I'm going to define on the next slide, would be 12 

## considered controls that are applicable to the bare 13 

## pump driver and control test procedure, and that is 14 

## specifically PEI/VL, the variable load PEI. 15 

## Controls other than continuous 16 

## and non-continuous controls would be rated as a bare 17 

## pump and driver only, and so that would be - like a 18 

## float switch wouldn't qualify as a continuous or a 19 

## non-continuous control, and wouldn't be eligible to 20 

## apply the PEI/VL metric. 21 

## So next I'm going to define continuous and 22 

## non-continuous controls. So DOE, as we discussedCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## previously, there's a broad definition of control. 2 

## Anything that controls the driver, it could be a 3 

## timer, it could be really anything, and those are 4 

## useful in application. 5 

## But in terms of applying the test 6 

## procedure, we really were concerned with those types 7 

## of controls that save energy, and we reviewed the 8 

## types of controls with which pumps are typically 9 

## paired, and DOE determined that in general, controls 10 

## that adjust the speed of the pump driver are the type 11 

## of control that are most commonly applied to pumps 12 

## that save energy in the field via the pump affinity 13 

## laws. 14 

## DOE further differentiated the speed 15 

## controls into continuous and non-continuous controls. 16 

## Continuous controls, we have a specific definition 17 

## there, but it's in general meant to refer to VFDs, 18 

## ECMs, variable speed drives that would respond to 19 

## incremental changes in flow rate, and essentially 20 

## follow the pump curve or the system curve. 21 

## Non-continuous controls are a type of 22 

## control that also adjusts to speed of the driver toCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## achieve energy savings or a reduction in power 2 

## requirement to the pump, but do so at incremental 3 

## sort of places, like a multi-speed motor is the best 4 

## example of that. 5 

## So it wouldn't necessarily follow the 6 

## system curve at every flow rate or design point. But 7 

## at some points, you would be able to achieve reduced 8 

## power consumption at lower, at like a part loading, 9 

## whereas some points you would need to stay at the 10 

## full rotating speed if the part, the incremental part 11 

## load couldn't operate at that point. 12 

## So anyways, we defined these two 13 

## definitions as the controls that reduce energy 14 

## consumption that might be paired with a pump. When 15 

## requesting comment on these proposed definitions, as 16 

## well as any other types of controls that might want 17 

## to be considered as a -- applicable to the PEI/VL 18 

## metric, that are not -- wouldn't meet the definition 19 

## of continuous or non-continuous control, as defined 20 

## here, in that they achieve energy savings but they 21 

## don't adjust the speed of the driver. 22 

## And if yeah, that's pretty much what we'dCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## like comment on. Yep. 2 

## MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel. We agree. 3 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. 4 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. Yes, Dan. 5 

## MR. DELANEY: Dan Delaney, Regal Beloit. 6 

## Just as a question or clarification on non-continuous 7 

## controls, you know, we look at, you know, single 8 

## speed PSC controls, which would be considered 9 

## multi-speed, or let's say a multi-pole motor like a 10 

## 2-4 or 2-6 pole. I'm kind of looking for 11 

## clarification here. A lot of our assumption is 12 

## that's not a non-continuous control, but just wanted 13 

## to get some opinions from those at the table here, 14 

## about those type of technologies that obviously can 15 

## limit obviously power consumption at reduced speeds, 16 

## but would in our mind probably not classify under 17 

## non-continuous controls. 18 

## MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary and I have a 19 

## comment too. In the non-continuous category, I'm 20 

## wondering if you want to differentiate between 2 21 

## speeds and multi-speeds, which might mean 3 or 22 

## more, the point being that the more discrete speedsCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## you have to choose from, short of continuous 2 

## variability, the better opportunity you have to match 3 

## the pump and motor to the load. 4 

## MS. WIDDER: So that's a very good 5 

## comment, Gary. I think we'll respond to that a 6 

## little bit when we discuss the appropriate test 7 

## procedures for the different pumps sold with 8 

## different types of controls, and we do achieve that 9 

## differentiation of performance, based on a 2-speed 10 

## versus a multi-speed motor, and we'll get into that 11 

## more later. 12 

## I think to Dan's point, if there's more 13 

## specificity in this definition that's needed to 14 

## include or exclude motor control technologies that 15 

## may reduce power consumption but is not included 16 

## here, we would appreciate those suggestions. 17 

## Okay. So as I mentioned, those pump 18 

## configurations refer to how the test procedure or 19 

## which specific test method can be applied to those 20 

## equipment. So for -- you can see in the most 21 

## left-hand column, there's a "rated as" column. So 22 

## equipment rated as a bare pump, pump plus motor -- ICommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## switched to motor in this case, since we've excluded 2 

## non-electric drivers or rated them as a bare pump, 3 

## not excluded, and pump plus motor plus controls are 4 

## based on how the equipment is rated, and then the 5 

## applicable test method. We have calculated-based and 6 

## testing-based options. 7 

## The testing-based option, we'll discuss 8 

## the details further on in the slides. But it 9 

## basically refers to a wire-to-water test, where you 10 

## would stick the pump and driver and control, if 11 

## applicable, in the test stand, and measure the input 12 

## power furthest upstream and the hydraulic output 13 

## power. 14 

## The calculation-based method refers in 15 

## general to methods where you test the bare pump, 16 

## physically test the bare pump only, and there's 17 

## default calculations and assumptions that are made in 18 

## the test procedure, to determine the resultant 19 

## representative rating of the bare pump plus driver 20 

## plus control, if sold that way. 21 

## We're going to discuss those details all 22 

## later on, but that's what the testing andCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## calculation-based methods refer to. So this just 2 

## reiterates what I mentioned on a previous slide, 3 

## where a bare pump sold with a non-electric driver or 4 

## single-phase induction motor would be rated as a bare 5 

## pump. The calculation method is only applicable to 6 

## those pumps. 7 

## A pump plus motor is if it's paired with a 8 

## motor that is a covered polyphase electric motor or a 9 

## submersible motor, that could be tested or 10 

## calculated. Since we discussed this in the working 11 

## group at some length, that those equipment have a 12 

## certified full efficiency, a nominal full load 13 

## efficiency value that can be referenced. 14 

## For pumps sold with electric motors that 15 

## are not covered by DOE's energy conservation 16 

## standards for electric motors, those would need to be 17 

## tested via the wire-to-water method, because we don't 18 

## have a certified nominal full load efficiency for 19 

## those motors. 20 

## The continuous and non-continuous controls 21 

## is as we discussed previously. Those don't count as 22 

## controls, and so they would need to be rated as theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## bare pump and driver only, and then pump, motor and 2 

## controls, for the purposes of applying the test 3 

## procedure, you could -- you can do a calculation for 4 

## pumps paired with a covered motor and continuous 5 

## controls. 6 

## Because our continuous control 7 

## calculation, as we discussed in the working group, 8 

## basically assumes that the pump will follow the 9 

## system curve, a reference system curve that was 10 

## discussed, that is in general in accordance with the 11 

## pump affinity laws. So a control that will follow 12 

## that system curve would be applicable -- would be 13 

## able to use the calculation-based method. 14 

## Non-continuous controls like a multi-speed 15 

## motor that achieve speed reduction and power 16 

## reduction, but wouldn't consistently follow the 17 

## reference curve would need to apply the testing-based 18 

## method, because following the system curve wouldn't 19 

## be representative of their performance. 20 

## And similarly, non-covered electric motors 21 

## would need to apply the testing-based approach in 22 

## that case as well. So that's what this slide isCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## getting at. 2 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: That's a lot of content. 3 

## Questions? 4 

## MS. WIDDER: Yep. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, Rob Boteler. 6 

## MR. BOTELER: Yeah, I just have a question 7 

## on the submersible under the testing-based or 8 

## calculation. Submersible testing then would be per 9 

## the Department's motor testing program that we use on 10 

## other covered products? 11 

## MS. WIDDER: So this test procedure would 12 

## not require or specify testing of the submersible 13 

## motor by itself. The calculation -- so the 14 

## testing-based approach, as applicable to bare pumps 15 

## sold with submersible motors, would be wire-to-water. 16 

## So the pump paired with the submersible motor could 17 

## be tested via the wire-to-water approach, where you 18 

## measure the input power to the motor and the 19 

## hydraulic output power. 20 

## Applying the calculation-based approach to 21 

## a submersible motor and bare pump as shown in the sort 22 

## of lower left there, refers to default submersibleCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## motor efficiencies that the Department has assumed as 2 

## part of the test procedure. We're going to discuss 3 

## that in detail later on. 4 

## But in that case, the pump manufacturer 5 

## would be required to use only those default 6 

## submersible motor efficiencies, and to the extent 7 

## that the submersible motor they had paired with that 8 

## pump had a higher efficiency, for example, than the 9 

## default, they would need to apply the testing-based 10 

## approach to reflect that improved performance. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob. 12 

## MR. BOTELER: So when we get to that 13 

## table, the levels that are on that table are tested 14 

## per the DOE requirements? How do we determine those 15 

## levels? 16 

## MS. WIDDER: I will discuss that in more 17 

## detail when we get to that slide, about how those 18 

## were determined. But we will -- when we get there 19 

## certainly appreciate feedback on if those are 20 

## appropriate. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Gary Ferstrom. 22 

## MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary, thank you.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## Sarah, you used the term "single-phase induction 2 

## motor." I'm not sure whether you're talking about 3 

## the power that is supplied to a motor drive 4 

## combination or the motor itself, exclusive of the 5 

## electronic drive that may be attached to it. 6 

## My question is what if the motor isn't 7 

## really an induction motor, it's some other motor 8 

## design? 9 

## MS. WIDDER: If it's a single-phase motor 10 

## that is not an induction motor, it would be a 11 

## non-covered electric motor, and would be, based on 12 

## this proposal, applicable to use the pump plus motor 13 

## test provisions. Does that make sense? 14 

## MR. FERSTROM: Well, I understand that. I 15 

## was -- 16 

## MS. WIDDER: Let me -- 17 

## MR. FERSTROM: --just wanting to make sure 18 

## that using the term "induction" there didn't preclude 19 

## some other configuration. 20 

## MS. WIDDER: Right. Use induction? Okay. 21 

## We appreciate those. I'll describe the justification 22 

## for why those were proposed to be rated as bareCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### pumps, and then we would appreciate any feedback on 2 

### whether or not induction is necessary in this case, 3 

### or additional terms are necessary. 4 

### So the reasoning here was based on our 5 

### understanding, so the metric, we'll get there. But 6 

### the metric is designed as the rated pump performance 7 

### over a standard pump performance, and inherent in the 8 

### standard pump performance is a standard motor 9 

### efficiency that is specific to NEMA A, NEMA B and IEC N 10 

### motors, as covered by DOE's energy conservation 11 

### standard for electric motors. 12 

### That's the default minimum efficiency 13 

### motor that's assumed in the standard case. Our 14 

### understanding is that single-phase induction motors 15 

### are in general less efficient than those motors, in 16 

### which case that would -- the assumed minimum 17 

### efficiency motor in the standard case isn't 18 

### appropriate for those motors. 19 

### So rating them as a bare pump allows the 20 

### minimum efficiency from the NEMA table to be both in 21 

### the numerator and the denominator. If we were to 22 

### consider the -- applying pump plus motor testCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### 1 

## procedures to, for example, single-phase induction 2 

## motors or other motors, that the assumed minimum 3 

## default efficiencies wouldn't be appropriate. We 4 

## would need separate assumptions to include in our 5 

## calculation of PER standard for those motor types. 6 

## MR. FERSTROM: Thank you. I think that 7 

## explains it. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 9 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. All right. So 10 

## I'm going to move on. We do request specific 11 

## comments on this if you have any. So now I'm going 12 

## to get into -- we already discussed a little bit the 13 

## design of the metric, but we're going to take a step 14 

## back. I'm going to present that. 15 

## This is again similar to what 16 

## was discussed in the working group at length, and as 17 

## we've heard reference so far today, DOE's proposing 18 

## two metrics that would be applicable to different 19 

## pump equipment classes, depending on the pump 20 

## configuration in which they're sold. 21 

## So the constant load pump energy index, 22 

## which would be applicable to pumps sold withoutCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## continuous or non-continuous controls, so a bare pump 2 

## or a bare pump plus a motor, would be the PER -- 3 

## would be the PEI/CL, that's how we've abbreviated it, 4 

## which is a ratio of the weighted average input power 5 

## at specific load points of the rated pump, over the 6 

## weighted average input power of a minimally compliant 7 

## pump of the same equipment class serving the same 8 

## hydraulic load. 9 

## We're going to get into detail about how 10 

## the PER standard quantity is calculated, but this is 11 

## -- this should be familiar. It's very consistent 12 

## with what was discussed in the working group. The 13 

## variable load pump energy index is designed very 14 

## similarly. It's still the weighted average input 15 

## power to the rated pump, over the weighted average 16 

## input power to a minimally compliant pump serving the 17 

## same equipment class and the same hydraulic load. 18 

## In this case, as noted in the PER standard 19 

## row, it's still PER/CL, quote-unquote on the bottom, 20 

## in that the PER standard does not assume a control. 21 

## It's just the rated pump that would take advantage of 22 

## those power savings, and then the main differenceCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## between the two load profiles as discussed and 2 

## recommended by the working group is the load profile 3 

## that's assumed in the constant load versus variable 4 

## load case. The constant load rating points are 75, 5 

## 100 and 110 percent of the BEP flow for the rated 6 

## pump, whereas the variable load is the 25, 50, 75 and 7 

## 100 percent of BEP flow. 8 

## Okay. So this is just same slide that we discussed in 9 

## detail, but now on the very left-hand column I've 10 

## included just a diagram that shows the applicability 11 

## of the PEI/CL versus PEI/VL metrics. So this is 12 

## basically in general how DOE's metric is proposed to 13 

## apply. 14 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Do you have a request for 15 

## comment? 16 

## MS. WIDDER: We have a request for comment 17 

## on the proposed load points and weighting. I didn't 18 

## mention, but it's equally weighted. We discussed 19 

## that in the working group. For the three load 20 

## points, it's basically a third, a third, a third; for 21 

## the PEI/VL it's equally weighted as well, and then 22 

## request comment on the metric architecture and theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## applicability to the different pump types. 2 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Gary Ferstrom. 3 

## MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. I'd just 4 

## like to comment that a lot of work went into this, 5 

## and I think this is an extremely thoughtful and 6 

## useful approach that's being taken. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. Additional 8 

## comments here? I thought it was an exceptionally 9 

## hard-working and thoughtful working group as well. 10 

## So additional comments here in response to these 11 

## comment boxes? 12 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. In the interest of 13 

## time, we're going to move on. So we're going to talk 14 

## a little bit about determining PEI. This is -- I 15 

## mentioned that there's a calculation and a 16 

## testing-based approach that would be applicable based 17 

## on the pump configuration and specific metric that is 18 

## applied. 19 

## This just sort of color codes and shows 20 

## what the aspects of that calculation would include. 21 

## So the testing-based is obviously the wire-to-water 22 

## test, as we had discussed. The three right-handCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## columns for the calculation-based procedure in 2 

## specific shows that the bare pump performance would 3 

## be tested in all cases, and then the assumed motor 4 

## performance, that would be part of the calculation. 5 

## So for the bare pump, it would be the 6 

## minimally compliant motor efficiency, with an assumed 7 

## part load loss curve that would assign motor losses 8 

## and each load point. We're going to discuss in 9 

## detail what assumptions, what that motor efficiency 10 

## is, what that part load loss curve looks like. But 11 

## this is just in general to get familiar with the way 12 

## the calculation test procedure is laid out. 13 

## For a bare pump, we have assumptions for 14 

## both those characteristics and no controls. For a 15 

## pump plus motor, instead of -- it's the exact same 16 

## part load loss curve. So it's similar, assumes 17 

## similar performance at part loading, but the motor 18 

## efficiency is now the nominal full load efficiency, 19 

## certified in accordance with the DOE test procedure 20 

## for electric motors, instead of the minimally 21 

## compliant motor efficiency. 22 

## That's the main change here, and then forCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## a pump plus motor plus controls, the 2 

## calculation-based approach again uses the nominal 3 

## motor efficiency, and then we don't have an assumed 4 

## loss curve for the motor alone, since the driver or 5 

## the, excuse me, the control performance affects the 6 

## efficiency of the motor so significantly. 7 

## We proposed a -- developed and proposed a 8 

## part-load loss curve that reflects the losses of the 9 

## motor and controls combined. So that's just in 10 

## general how this is going to go. Now we're going to 11 

## dive into the details about what all those 12 

## assumptions are. 13 

## So PEI/CL, for the uncontrolled pump, as 14 

## we mentioned previously, it's a ratio, weighted 15 

## average input power to the pump in the testing-based 16 

## approach. It would be at measured tested input power 17 

## to the motor at each of 75, 100 and 110 percent of 18 

## BEP flow of the bare pump, and then that test or that 19 

## measurement reflects the performance of the bare pump 20 

## and motor and nothing else is needed. 21 

## The calculation-based approach, we have 22 

## tested bare pump performance. The input power to theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## pump at the pump shaft input power is required at 75, 2 

## 100 and 110 percent of BEP flow, equally weighted, 3 

## and then the purple indicates to the calculated motor 4 

## losses, which is either the part-load losses of the 5 

## motor that's paired with the pump, that's the pump 6 

## plus motor case, or the part-load losses of the 7 

## minimally compliant motor, and in this case we're 8 

## discussing what that is. 9 

## It's a pump or a motor that is minimally 10 

## compliant with DOE's motor regulations for NEMA 11 

## Design A, Design B or IEC Design N electric motors, 12 

## except for submersible motors. Those have a separate 13 

## efficiency assumption, and sized based on the shaft 14 

## input power of the pump, evaluated 120 percent of BEP 15 

## flow. 16 

## So we had discussed previously how for 17 

## bare pumps, we also need to determine what size 18 

## motor. In addition to efficiency, what size motor 19 

## that bare pump is rated with. So we tied it to 120 20 

## percent of BEP flow, assuming that motors would be 21 

## slightly oversized, and that was just a 22 

## representative assumption that's applied across allCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## bare pumps. 2 

## That's in general how this calculation 3 

## works. I'm going to do the -- oh, so we'll stop 4 

## there, because then we'll get in PER standard, if 5 

## there's any comments on this. This is really almost 6 

## verbatim what we had discussed in the working group, 7 

## just discussed in detail. I'll note that the color 8 

## scheme, I tried to keep that consistent throughout. 9 

## So green is testing, blue pump 10 

## performance, purple motor performance. Okay. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Questions or comments? 12 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So the denominator, 13 

## PER standard of the minimally compliant pump is the 14 

## PER/CL, so that constant load, equal rating following 15 

## the pump curve for a minimally compliant pump, that's 16 

## determined based on the tested characteristics and 17 

## hydraulic load of the pumping rated. 18 

## So that's blue, that's measurements that 19 

## are taken from HI 40.6. You determine the hydraulic 20 

## output power, the specific speed and the flow rate 21 

## are necessary to calculate the PER standard for that 22 

## pump. It assumes a pump curve shape for the minimallyCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### compliant pump and always assumes no control. That 2 

### assumed minimally compliant pump is reflected in the 3 

### 0.95 and 0.985 values that are at 110 percent and 75 4 

### percent of the PER standard equation. 5 

### The motor losses are the same approach 6 

### that's applied to the bare pump. So that should be 7 

### consistent above and below the line, and then the 8 

### minimally compliant pump efficiency is calculated for 9 

### each equipment class, based on the function of flow 10 

### and speed of the pump being rated. The pump efficiency 11 

### equation is shown here. This is consistent with the 12 

### EU, and I will note that it is plus 555.6. So we 13 

### appreciate suggestions and help from interested 14 

### parties on that. 15 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 16 

### MR. RUZICKA: The only problem we still 17 

### have, and thanks for correcting the corrections. We 18 

### still have one small issue with the rules of 19 

### mathematics and significant digits on the 555.6. To 20 

### be consistent with the desire of the DOE to carry it 21 

### to the hundredth decimal place and no rounding, that 22 

### should be 555.60.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. WIDDER: So I think that's a very good 2 

## point, and it made us consider applying 3 

## significance analysis to actually the entire 4 

## procedure, and I will note that in this case, the 5 

## 555.60 value is not limiting pump efficiency, and 6 

## then pump efficiency is further used to calculate PER 7 

## standards. 8 

## So how many decimals is on this last digit 9 

## is actually not driving how many digits are 10 

## significant in PER standard. But we are going to 11 

## continue to look at that, and do a full significance 12 

## analysis, and we will ensure that it is correct and 13 

## you can reach the right number of digits, as 14 

## specified for the procedure. So we're definitely 15 

## looking into it. We appreciate the comment. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: And thanks for your 17 

## earlier flag on this point. Paul, go ahead. 18 

## MR. RUZICKA: I'm sorry. There's one more 19 

## point. We wanted just for clarification, that the 20 

## rate of flow for the pump less efficiency should be 21 

## normalized to the 60 Hz pulse speed being 22 

## analyzed.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. WIDDER: Yes. 2 

## MR. RUZICKA: Okay, so just to be 3 

## clarifying this, right? 4 

## MS. WIDDER: Yes. 5 

## MR. RUZICKA: Okay. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 7 

## MS. WIDDER: So this slide looks very 8 

## similar to the determining PEI/CL for an uncontrolled 9 

## pump, but now you'll see four terms in the numerator 10 

## at the four load points. Again, testing-based 11 

## approach is equally weighted determination of the 12 

## input power to the motor or control, well control in 13 

## this case, excuse me, and the calculation-based 14 

## approach takes the input power to the pump, and then 15 

## adds the motor performance, and then the controls 16 

## performance is captured in the calculation of bare 17 

## shaft input power, and accounts for drive efficiency 18 

## in the calculated losses. 19 

## So that's subsumed in the last three 20 

## terms, 25, 50 and 75 percent pump input power and the 21 

## motor load, the motor losses or motor and control 22 

## losses were capture the pump's, the controlsCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### performance, and we'll talk about that more in

2 

### detail. 3 

### MR. HANDZEL: Sarah, I'm sorry. Can I 4 

### stop for a minute? 5 

### MS. WIDDER: Yeah.

6 

### MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel. So Doug, just

7 

### to clarify. 8 

### MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 9 

### MR. HANDZEL: So the original NOPR came out, had an 10 

### error. We notified you guys. You guys issued a

11 

### correction.

12 

### MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 13 

### MR. HANDZEL: And now you're changing it

14 

### again. So in our letters, do we need to comment to 15 

### what's in the correction, or can we comment to what 16 

### you just showed us on the slide that was corrected 17 

### again? I just want to clarify, do we need to still 18 

### put -- 19 

### MS. WIDDER: It's -- 20 

### MS. ARMSTRONG: I got it. Just what's on

21 

### the slide, because we've decided not to issue a

22 

### correction, because we can make the clarificationCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## here. 2 

## MR. HANDZEL: Okay, that's -- we just 3 

## needed to know that. 4 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So as long as you agree 5 

## with what's on the slide, then we're good. 6 

## MR. HANDZEL: Okay, thank you. Okay. 7 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thanks for the 9 

## clarification. It's good. 10 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So this request for 11 

## comment is applicable to mostly PER/CL for bare pumps 12 

## and PER standard. So specifically that the motor 13 

## horsepower for the minimally compliant pump would be 14 

## based on the calculated pump shaft input power of the 15 

## pump, evaluated at 120 percent of BEP flow, and that 16 

## for pumps sold with motors, or motors and controls, 17 

## the motor horsepower would be that of the motor with 18 

## which the pump is sold, in both cases. 19 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 20 

## MR. RUZICKA: We just want to state that 21 

## we agree. 22 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. We're going 2 

## to move on. 3 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. So now we're 4 

## moving on to what was previously mostly blue 5 

## highlighted text, determining bare pump performance. 6 

## This is also applicable to the wire-to-water testing, 7 

## but in general, we're looking at bare pump 8 

## performance. To determine PEI/CL and VL, the input 9 

## power to the pump at specified load points is 10 

## required. 11 

## So we have to physically measure the bare 12 

## pump or the entire pump, depending on which method is 13 

## applied, and so DOE's proposed instructions for how 14 

## to physically measure the performance of these pump 15 

## configurations. 16 

## To do this, DOE is proposing to 17 

## incorporate by reference Hydraulic Institute Standard 18 

## 40.6-2014, Methods for Rotodynamic Pump Efficiency 19 

## Testing as part of the DOE's test procedure. This is 20 

## consistent with working group recommendations. 21 

## There are a few minor modifications that are 22 

## discussed in detail in the NOPR.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### I'm just going to cover them at a high 2 

### level here, but we appreciate specific 3 

### recommendations or comments, if you have any. The 4 

### proposed minor modifications include excluding 5 

### specific sections of HI 40.6 which DOE believed were 6 

### not applicable to DOE's regulatory framework. So 7 

### sections 40.6.5.3 and Appendix B discuss test reporting. 8 

### DOE has a specific certification database and method 9 

### that will be discussed, actually in the energy 10 

### conservation standard portion this afternoon, 11 

### specifically what data is required to be submitted. 12 

### But generation of a test report in this format, DOE 13 

### is proposing wouldn't be required. 14 

### Then also section A.7, which has 15 

### provisions for testing at high temperature, DOE's 16 

### proposed test procedure and HI 40.6 in the body of it 17 

### actually define the test fluid as clean water, and it 18 

### has a pretty specific temperature limit. DOE is 19 

### proposing that only that test fluid can be used, and 20 

### that as such, such high temperature testing and 21 

### modifications wouldn't be necessary. 22 

### DOE is also proposing to specify a dataCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## collection interval of 5 seconds. DOE determined 2 

## the 5-second interval based on the stabilization 3 

## requirements within HI 40.6. HI 40.6 requires that 4 

## stabilization be determined within 10 seconds, and 5 

## in order to determine whether something is stabilized 6 

## within that time frame, you need at least 2 7 

## measurements that are within a tolerance, and so 8 

## that's where the 5 seconds came from. 9 

## DOE appreciates comments on if a longer or 10 

## shorter time collection interval is necessary. I 11 

## feel like we're going to get some. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 13 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yes, Paul Ruzicka. The 14 

## stabilization in taking data every 5 seconds is 15 

## quite difficult when we're dealing with manual 16 

## collection methods, which probably many smaller pump 17 

## companies may not have the data acquisition to be 18 

## able to drive something to that level. 19 

## The implication for the 10 seconds was to 20 

## monitor all your gauges, and make sure that 21 

## everything was steady state, as defined in 40.6. 22 

## Rather than taking physical measurements to do that,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## you're just monitoring it as a tester and saying yes, 2 

## things are stable. They're within the allowable 3 

## fluctuations of 40.6. I can go ahead and collect my 4 

## data point at that time. 5 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Great. So this is 6 

## actually from DOE. If I pulled your pump and I 7 

## tested it, and you wanted to know that it was stable, 8 

## what data would you want to see to confirm that? 9 

## Just me saying yes, it was stable, go? Even if the 10 

## answer didn't come out as you may have -- 11 

## MR. RUZICKA: No. If the data was stable, 12 

## if the data was stable within the allowable 13 

## fluctuations in 40.6 -- 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: But how would you know if 15 

## you don't have the data? 16 

## MR. RUZICKA: --over that period of 10 17 

## seconds, you would then say okay, I've had a good -- 18 

## I have a good stable data point. I can collect data. 19 

## But to collect all the data necessary within 5 20 

## seconds is not physically possible for many test 21 

## stands. 22 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Al.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. HUBER: That's our biggest concern 2 

## with this requirement, is that it will force all pump 3 

## manufacturers to go to this type of data collection, 4 

## and it could be very, very expensive for them, and 5 

## would adversely impact especially the small 6 

## manufacturer, because they don't have data 7 

## acquisition. 8 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: This is Ashley. We can -- 9 

## we can relook at this, but I think my question is the 10 

## reason why you're seeing it. So I'd like you to 11 

## answer the actual question, which is if I test your 12 

## pump and you were not there, how would you know it's 13 

## stable? Would you take my word for it, because I 14 

## looked at the measurements and I wrote down it was 15 

## stable. That's good enough for you? 16 

## MR. HUBER: If you test it per our 17 

## standard it is. 18 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Even if you get a -- 19 

## MR. HUBER: And it describes 20 

## stabilization. 21 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Well, it describes what it 22 

## means to be stable. It doesn't make anyone provideCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## information that shows it's stable. You see the 2 

## difference? 3 

## MS. WIDDER: There's no enforceable part. 4 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I think it's enforceable 5 

## as written. That's not the issue. It's that if I 6 

## test your product, you wouldn't have any data that 7 

## says stable or not, and you wouldn't be there. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: There's no specification. 9 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So it goes both ways. So 10 

## I guess we want to know -- I get it that when you're 11 

## testing, you're going to make sure it's stable before 12 

## you move forward. I think it's more to the point of 13 

## how do you know, other than an actual assertion from 14 

## the test lab or whoever's testing it that it was? 15 

## And maybe that -- you feel that's 16 

## unnecessary. It goes both ways though, and I think 17 

## you would want that data if DOE was testing your 18 

## product, and the answer didn't come out quite as you 19 

## expected. 20 

## MR. HUBER: We're going to propose some 21 

## language in our written response. But what I want to 22 

## make sure that you understand, when you require theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## 5 second interval -- 2 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah, we got it. I 3 

## understand. 4 

## MR. HUBER: --it's a matter of huge burden 5 

## on some pump manufacturers. 6 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I understand that, and 7 

## that wasn't the intention. But do you see -- 8 

## MR. HUBER: We understand. 9 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I mean stabilization 10 

## within 10, I'm not sure -- we just cut it in the 11 

## middle and figure that one data point would help. 12 

## MR. HUBER: All right. We will see if we 13 

## can come up with some proper language. 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay, thank you. 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Peter. 16 

## MR. GAYDON: Peter Gaydon, Hydraulic 17 

## Institute. With the definition as written, are you 18 

## proposing that it would need to be documented of 2 19 

## points? 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So I'm going to go with a 21 

## higher level answer. So that proposal as written 22 

## yes, but I get the potential impact or the unintendedCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## impact that that might -- proposal may have had. 2 

## So I think the intention was to be able to 3 

## prove stabilization with some type of data other than 4 

## just an assertive answer to yes, it was stabilized, 5 

## if you weren't there for testing to see it. (off 6 

## mic) I mean one could be the stabilization period 7 

## needs to be longer, in which case you don't have to 8 

## take as many points, or at least as points at a level 9 

## of detail that would require a -- I'm sorry. 10 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. So your caucus or 11 

## the individuals, whoever's compiling these comments. 12 

## Mark, go ahead. 13 

## MR. HANDZEL: Yeah. So we have an outside 14 

## group that we will work with to develop language that 15 

## we will propose in our written response. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, excellent. Thank 17 

## you. I'm confident you now have connected here on 18 

## the principle points there. Sarah. 19 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. So the other 20 

## minor modifications that DOE proposed to the 21 

## standard, the test method discussed in HI 40.6, is to 22 

## specify that the allowable integration for a dataCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## collection for stabilization could only allow 2 

## dampening over the data collection interval. 3 

## So if we have issue with the 5 seconds, 4 

## that may change. The quantity of 5 seconds may 5 

## change. But in general, if you're collecting data 6 

## every however much time, you can only integrate 7 

## within that time frame, is what this is trying to 8 

## accomplish. There's no maximum in the standard right 9 

## now, and they need to be unique measurements. I mean 10 

## that's just in general how it works. 11 

## MR. RUZICKA: We'll add some criteria to 12 

## help judge that as well, in terms of allowable 13 

## fluctuations or something like that. 14 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, yep. That would be 15 

## very helpful. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thanks Paul, okay. 17 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. Then a few proposals 18 

## to improve the test repeatability. As Ashley was 19 

## mentioning, it's really important that the 20 

## manufacturer test -- can certified data be consistent 21 

## with the way that product is tested at a third party 22 

## test lab or by DOE, that is always getting more orCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## less the same number? 2 

## And so we proposed a few additional 3 

## provisions to help make sure that occurs, removed 4 

## some sources of potential error from the test 5 

## procedure. One is regarding pump speed, so 6 

## specifying that pumps have to be certified at a 7 

## specific rated speed, and then that rated speed 8 

## bound, there's tolerances around it. 9 

## All data is corrected to the nominal 10 

## speed, the specified speed. Those provisions are in 11 

## general in HI, but the rated speed isn't specified in 12 

## general. Here, we're just specifying what the rated 13 

## speed is for given pump configurations and based on 14 

## the motor with which the pump is sold. 15 

## The power supply characteristics, that 16 

## applies to in specific a pump sold with motors and 17 

## pumps sold with motors and drives. DOE gathered 18 

## these specifications, and I'm trying to remember if I 19 

## have a slide about this. I do. So I'm not going to 20 

## talk -- oh, that's right. 21 

## The bold ones I have slides about, so 22 

## we're going to talk in more detail about those. TheCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## number of stages for multi-stage pumps we've already 2 

## discussed in the basic model definition. It's 3 

## consistent with the working group recommendations, 4 

## that for multi-stage pumps you only test at one 5 

## specific stage, number of stages. 6 

## If not, if you don't offer the multi-stage 7 

## pump in that specific stage, it's the next highest or 8 

## next lowest. There's specific proposals about that 9 

## in the NOPR, and then determination of pump shaft 10 

## input power, electrical measurement equipment. We'll 11 

## talk in more detail in subsequent slides. 12 

## Pumps with BEP at run-out. This is just a 13 

## specific caveat for pumps where the maximum 14 

## efficiency might be at the maximum flow rate of the 15 

## pump, in which case 110 percent of BEP flow is not 16 

## possible, or a safe operating point for that pump. 17 

## In that case, pretty much all you do is 18 

## move back ten percent, 100, 90 and 65, and that's all 19 

## with that. Otherwise, the procedure is the same. 20 

## Only a few pumps that that would apply to, and then 21 

## some provisions about calculations and rounding that 22 

## were referenced earlier, that all calculations areCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### done with raw measured values, and then rounded to 2 

### 0.01. 3 

### So I'm going to -- we request here on 4 

### using HI 40.6. I believe most folks will be 5 

### supportive of that, and we can move on to the -- 6 

### MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel. So we are 7 

### supportive of using 40.6. So I think we're okay with 8 

### Issue 33, but we've got some comments coming up here on the 9 

### additional bold things that you have in that test 10 

### repeatability clause. 11 

### MS. WIDDER: I'm ready for ya. 12 

### MS. ARMSTRONG: One thing, Sarah. 44 13 

### slides, one hour. Okay. We're moving faster. 14 

### MS. WIDDER: Okay. So pump speed, in 15 

### general. For a bare pump, since it's not paired with 16 

### the motor, we're tied to the design speed of 17 

### rotation, and we have that same range we saw 18 

### previously. It's basically 1,800 and 3,600, plus or 19 

### minus 20 percent, which is consistent with the test 20 

### provisions in HI 40.6. That's where the range came 21 

### from. 22 

### For pumps sold with a motor or pumps soldCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### with motor and controls, you have a motor with which 2 

### the bare pump is paired. So the nominal rating 3 

### speed, which is in the far right-hand column, would 4 

### be based on in general the rotating speed of the 5 

### motor with which the pump is paired. 2-4 pole, 36-18 6 

### hundred. For non-induction motors, the pole 7 

### terminology isn't applicable, we have that range 8 

### that we discussed previously. 9 

### Consistent with 40.6, DOE is proposing 10 

### that the tested speed must be maintained within 20 11 

### percent of the nominal speed, and that the speed of 12 

### rotation during the test not vary more than one 13 

### percent. So then that, you know, it's maintained 14 

### more precisely, but then it can be corrected to 15 

### nominal. So there's a request for comment on that. 16 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 17 

### MR. RUZICKA: Yes. We agree with Issue 18 

### 37, normalizing to 1,800 and 3,600. However, the 19 

### wording in Issue 38 is not consistent with what you've just 20 

### spoken. It says 1 percent of the nominal speed. 21 

### If we were trying to hold 1 percent of the nominal 22 

### speed, for instance an 1,800 RPM motor that would beCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## 100 or 1,782, and many of these motors slowed down. 2 

## So we would recommend that the tested 3 

## speed be within the bounds of the 40.6 test standard. 4 

## MS. WIDDER: Thank you for that comment. 5 

## That is the intent. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Is that specific enough? 7 

## MS. WIDDER: Yes, extremely. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, okay. 9 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So power supply 10 

## characteristics. As I mentioned, this is applicable 11 

## to pumps sold with motors, with continuous or 12 

## non-continuous controls, and also pumps sold with 13 

## motors and no controls. If you're measuring input 14 

## power to a motor or a control, the characteristics of 15 

## the power supply may impact the reliability, 16 

## consistency, accuracy of the reading of the measured 17 

## power. 18 

## So to improve the repeatability for 19 

## especially the wire-to-water test, DOE reviewed test 20 

## procedures that are available in the industry for 21 

## electric motors and variable speed drives, regarding 22 

## the voltage requirement, frequency requirement, totalCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## harmonic distortion and impedance of when measuring 2 

## input power to a motor or control. 3 

## In general, there is a lot of consistency, 4 

## especially for voltage and frequency. As such, DOE 5 

## proposed to adopt those power supply requirements for 6 

## voltage and frequency. They're bolded and in green. 7 

## For total harmonic distortion, there was consistency, 8 

## except for there's not one in AHRI 1210, and 9 

## impedance, there was a little bit of inconsistency in 10 

## the standards that DOE reviewed. 11 

## DOE proposed to use the specification 12 

## provided in AHRI 1210 of less than 1 percent of the 13 

## power supply into the pump. DOE recognizes that in 14 

## some cases, this would require a conditioned power 15 

## supply, in order to conduct wire-to-water testing. 16 

## But it's important to maintain the specific 17 

## requirements of the power supply, in order to have an 18 

## accurate measurement. 19 

## So DOE requests comment on these 20 

## proposals, and also whether these tolerances can be 21 

## achieved in typical pump test labs or if additional 22 

## equipment would be required.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes Paul. 2 

## MR. RUZICKA: Paul Ruzicka. Sarah, a 3 

## typical pump test lab doesn't have the capability to 4 

## condition power to these levels. One other piece of 5 

## the puzzle that you didn't include was power factor 6 

## correction. I see a voltage imbalance, power factor 7 

## correction and harmonic imbalance, and those types of 8 

## equipment just to speak of just regulating voltage, 9 

## up to about 200 horsepower, is in excess of $50,000. 10 

## And that's only to regulate voltage. 11 

## We haven't even started talking about 12 

## harmonics and then phase to phase. So the cost is 13 

## extremely prohibitive, and it's not possible or 14 

## practical for many companies, specifically the 15 

## smaller companies or even the larger companies, to 16 

## invest in that kind of power supply regulation. 17 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Can you suggest another 18 

## alternative that would achieve the kind of results 19 

## that DOE's looking for? 20 

## MS. WIDDER: So I will note, just 21 

## before you respond, that this -- DOE recognizes that, 22 

## but this would only be applicable to testing-basedCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## methods. So if you were to test the bare pump alone 2 

## and use a calculation-based method, these 3 

## requirements would not be required, because you're 4 

## not measuring input power to a motor or drive. 5 

## You're not measuring power. You're measuring speed 6 

## and torque. 7 

## So that would be an option for 8 

## manufacturers where this is out of reach. But as 9 

## Doug mentioned, we do need a way to make sure that 10 

## the measured input power to the motor is accurate. 11 

## So if there's additional suggestions or a relaxing of 12 

## these tolerances that you think is acceptable, both 13 

## from your perspective and DOE's perspective, we'd 14 

## appreciate that. 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah, pardon me. Let's 16 

## finish. Paul, go ahead. 17 

## MR. RUZICKA: I was just going to say 18 

## maybe what we need to do is we need to discuss this 19 

## with motor and drive manufacturers, I think to 20 

## understand just how much is the impact of loosening 21 

## this up to more conventional incoming power factors 22 

## and voltage imbalances, typical by normal line powerCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### supplies that are available, that the pump 2 

### manufacturers are using today. 3 

### So this would have to be under a great 4 

### deal of focus, to be able to understand the impact on 5 

### the repeatability, reliability of the data and 6 

### perhaps add some additional tolerances to the 7 

### equipment, to make it feasible for the pump 8 

### manufacturers to do it within their walls. 9 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Dan, you're next. 10 

### MR. DELANEY: Yeah. Dan Delaney, Regal 11 

### Beloit. Obviously, I speak on behalf of NEMA as well 12 

### too. So let me first address the issue, and then 13 

### I'll come back to the question. When we talk about 14 

### preferences from the NEMA organization, motor control 15 

### providers, we're really looking at CSA C838. 16 

### There is no perfect standard, 17 

### unfortunately today, that is out there in the 18 

### industry, at least released. There is some 19 

### development of one. But anyway, at the release 20 

### point, we would prefer CSA C838. It is derived from 21 

### the IEEE 112 requirements. So we'd prefer that to AHRI 22 

### 1210. While it borrows some of the requirements, itCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## doesn't do it completely throughout. 2 

## So we would prefer that across the board, 3 

## plus it allows additional points, let's say, that may 4 

## be of more interest to the pump manufacturers, versus 5 

## an HVAC standard is obviously focused on a fan curve. 6 

## Back to your question, though, about 7 

## loosening the requirements. That has been one of our 8 

## difficulties in, let's say in emerging fields 9 

## somewhat. When you talk about variable speed motor, 10 

## certainly induction motors have been around for some 11 

## time being supplied. 12 

## But it's not a clean standard that is out 13 

## there today. Again, as I mentioned, there's a very 14 

## good one in development. Unfortunately, it will not 15 

## be probably released in the period of time that this 16 

## standard rulemaking can probably utilize. But if I 17 

## had my preference, I would still go for the C838. 18 

## It bases obviously on the equipment, the 19 

## testing, the lab practices that are already based on 20 

## what motor manufacturers are using today. Just to 21 

## try to draw some parallel with what the pump industry 22 

## would be faced with going forward with theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## accuracies, is to state that many manufacturers did 2 

## not have that ability just like pump manufacturers to 3 

## do that. Third party test labs did obviously rise up 4 

## to fill some of those needs. 5 

## That would be probably my only 6 

## recommendation, because loosening those requirements 7 

## could essentially make all technologies equal, and 8 

## that's the unfortunate part about loosening the 9 

## requirements. That doesn't benefit let's say the end 10 

## requirement there, is essentially it would not allow 11 

## technologies really to let's say differentiate 12 

## themselves and provide those energy savings that 13 

## really are there, that if you loosen the requirements 14 

## may make them feel essentially the same. 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: So we need to move on 16 

## pretty quickly here. Paul, go ahead. 17 

## MR. RUZICKA: Just one thing. Based on 18 

## some testing that we've done between motor 19 

## manufacturers on their dynometers, and this is 20 

## exclusive to motors, not controls; we don't have that 21 

## depth of experience yet, because we haven't gone 22 

## there. But just understanding that what the motorCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## manufacturer does with full power and power 2 

## conditioning, power factor correction, they derive an 3 

## efficiency, and then when we run it on our dyno with 4 

## our line power, we regulate the voltage as best we 5 

## can. 6 

## Generally, because we're running slightly 7 

## less power factor and slightly more phase imbalance, 8 

## the net result is the driver efficiency is lower than 9 

## what the motor manufacturer achieved. So if we test 10 

## in the lab with normal incoming power, we would be 11 

## showing and demonstrating a lower value of efficiency 12 

## than what the motor manufacturers with their -- or 13 

## third parties would have with power conditioning. 14 

## So if we can still be allowed to test, 15 

## recognizing that we're probably going to be lower in 16 

## efficiency because of the incoming power, power 17 

## factor to power factor corrections, that I think if 18 

## we can demonstrate that we're still making the test, 19 

## we're doing okay. 20 

## MS. WIDDER: So I'm going to encourage you 21 

## to submit those suggestions and data. I think that 22 

## specifically the data would be very helpful for DOECommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## to consider, and also encourage additional 2 

## conversations between the pump and motor 3 

## manufacturers to occur offline, if that's all right, 4 

## and we're going to keep going. 5 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah, I just want to 6 

## clarify one thing, and I may have misunderstood 7 

## something you said. But you said, you know, your ask 8 

## is that you be allowed to test with what I'm going to 9 

## call higher variation, because of the investment 10 

## required for some of these, realizing that it may 11 

## very well affect your ultimately rated values. 12 

## So it doesn't work like that. The reason 13 

## we have these tightened -- you're going to be held to 14 

## that standard no matter what. The reason we have 15 

## these tolerances is that both when you test, but also 16 

## when we test to verify compliance, that we get 17 

## answers that are reasonably the same. 18 

## So you're not going -- there is no lower 19 

## level that we would consider, and perhaps I'm 20 

## misunderstanding the point you're trying to make. 21 

## But I did want to make clear that that level is going 22 

## to be that level. There is no -- we are happy toCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## reconsider the tolerances, and perhaps you should 2 

## talk to motor manufacturers, with some of the stuff 3 

## that they've been through over the past 10 to 20 4 

## years that they've been regulated. 5 

## But there is no -- there's not going to be 6 

## a lower level that you're going to be able to -- 7 

## MR. RUZICKA: No, I'm not stating that 8 

## there's a lower level. 9 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul, follow on. Paul, 10 

## keep going. 11 

## MR. RUZICKA: Not that there's a lower 12 

## level there, but because we're not testing it with a 13 

## fully conditioned power, as the motor manufacturers 14 

## do, our results will not look as favorable. So if we 15 

## test it, our results will be favorable. You take it 16 

## to a lab that has this capability, and you're going 17 

## to get better than what we get. So we have better 18 

## results than what we have. 19 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. I mean to the 20 

## extent that we would call that conservatively rating, 21 

## to the extent that works for you. Okay. 22 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: We're going to keepCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## pressing on here. We've got a lot of content. 2 

## MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. I'd like to 3 

## make a quick comment. We're working on similar test 4 

## procedures for pool pump motors in California, and I 5 

## know that's going to come up at the DOE level later. 6 

## But we're similarly recommending the CSA standard. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 8 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. We're going to 9 

## keep moving. I'm going to try and actually get 10 

## through the next two clarifications and not stop for 11 

## comment until the end. Hopefully, they won't be 12 

## quite as controversial. So the measurement equipment 13 

## clarification is also for testing of controlled pumps 14 

## in particular, and DOE also reviewed the 15 

## previously-referenced standards that are applicable 16 

## to continuous controls, to which the testing-based 17 

## approach would be appropriate, and determined that 18 

## the electrical measurement equipment for measuring 19 

## input power to a variable speed drive or other 20 

## continuous control may not be sufficient. 21 

## So DOE's requiring that measurement of 22 

## power occur with electrical measurement equipmentCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## capable of measuring current, voltage, and real power 2 

## up to at least the 40th harmonic of fundamental 3 

## supply source frequency, and having the accuracy 4 

## level plus or minus 2 percent of full scale, when 5 

## measured at the fundamental supply source frequency. 6 

## This is consistent with the specified 7 

## electrical measurement equipment in the AHRI and CSA 8 

## standard. So DOE's just transferring that 9 

## requirement to the pump test procedure, when we're 10 

## measuring input power to those specific devices. 11 

## The next modification to HI 40.6 is to 12 

## determine the pump input power at the specific load 13 

## point. So as previously referenced, we need pump 14 

## input power at exactly 75 percent of BEP flow rate. 15 

## And you may or may not have measured the pump input 16 

## power at exactly 75 percent of input power, 75 17 

## percent of BEP flow rate. 18 

## So to get there, DOE is proposing, and 19 

## this was discussed in the working group, a linear 20 

## regression of the 60, 75, 90, 100, 110, 120 percent 21 

## of expected BEP flow rate data points that occur as 22 

## part of HI 40.6. So basically you linearlyCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## interpolate everything besides the 40 percent of BEP 2 

## flow rate, because there might be some non-linearity 3 

## at significant part loads, and then use that 4 

## interpolated curve to determine the pump input power 5 

## at exactly 75 percent. 6 

## In the working group we also -- we 7 

## discussed a couple of methods, but this was in 8 

## general agreed to and recommended by the working 9 

## group. So DOE requests comment on these two 10 

## additional modifications. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Dan. 12 

## MR. DELANEY: So Dan Delaney, Regal 13 

## Beloit. I just want to make one more mention of 14 

## this, because of NEMA's position about this. On AHRI 15 

## 1210, that's not a standard that's really developed 16 

## for use in this industry. While it is guidance, I 17 

## understand the references a little bit, how you 18 

## represent it from a requirements standpoint. 19 

## We just want to make clear that that is 20 

## not a standard that we would endorse at all for use 21 

## in variable speed testing. So when you get into the 22 

## details of the test procedure, I do understand you'llCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## get into further. But I just want to make sure that 2 

## was understood. That's not a test standard that a 3 

## motor drive manufacturer would utilize for their type 4 

## of product. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Any additional 6 

## comments, gentlemen, before we move on? 7 

## (No response.) 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: We're going to move on. 9 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. So we already 10 

## took our break, so we're keeping going. We're going 11 

## to talk about the next topics are determination of 12 

## driver efficiency -- 13 

## (Off mic comment.) 14 

## MS. WIDDER: Determination of driver 15 

## efficiency and then review of the calculation and 16 

## testing-based methods, and then we have a little bit 17 

## of discussion of the sampling plan and burden. So 18 

## we're going to need to go quickly in this section as 19 

## well if want to eat lunch. So that is encouraging us 20 

## all, to limit our comments just to very high level 21 

## issues, and I'll try to limit myself as well. 22 

## So determining motor efficiency or lossesCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### 1 

## is required for a pump, regardless of the 2 

## configuration in which it's sold. We've already 3 

## reviewed this idea in general. So this now on the 4 

## top rows, you can see the metric applicability. So 5 

## we have PER/CL or PER/VL for pumps sold with motors 6 

## and pumps sold with motors and controls. They will 7 

## use the nominal full load motor efficiency. 8 

## You can see that for covered polyphase 9 

## electric motors, that the nominal full load 10 

## efficiency, determined in accordance with the motor 11 

## test procedure. So that's why the calculation-based 12 

## method is only applicable to those motors. For 13 

## submersible motors, the default motor efficiency, 14 

## which we'll present the table later on. 15 

## But it's only those default motor 16 

## efficiencies. Otherwise, the testing-based method 17 

## must be applied, and for non-covered polyphase 18 

## electric motors similarly, the testing -- only the 19 

## testing-based method can be applied. There's no 20 

## calculation, and so therefore no assumption about 21 

## motor efficiency. 22 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob Boteler.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. WIDDER: Okay. 2 

## MR. BOTELER: I would just make one 3 

## correction. On the top right, where you say 4 

## "standard for general purpose," the new regulation 5 

## coming out includes definite and special purpose, and 6 

## a lot of the product we're talking about here would 7 

## fall into that category. So by the time this rule 8 

## comes out, it will be covered. 9 

## MALE PARTICIPANT: Your CFR reference is 10 

## right. 11 

## MS. WIDDER: Yep. 12 

## MR. BOTELER: Yeah, the CFR reference is 13 

## right. 14 

## MS. WIDDER: It's just the type, the 15 

## nomenclature. 16 

## MR. BOTELER: Right. 17 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. Thank you for 18 

## that clarification, and we all want to make sure we 19 

## get that nomenclature right, specifically in the 20 

## regulatory text. So then moving over to the PER/CL 21 

## for bare pumps and the PER standard for all pumps, 22 

## bare pumps, pumps with motors, pumps with motors andCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## controls, the nominal full load of motor efficiency 2 

## would be the motor standard. 3 

## For NEMA Design A, Design B, and IEC 4 

## Design N motors, that proposal was made based on 5 

## discussions in the working group. But that -- those 6 

## categories of motors were the categories of motors 7 

## most commonly paired with pumps. DOE's requesting 8 

## comment on that. 9 

## So you can see that that is consistent for 10 

## covered and non-covered electric motors, but for 11 

## submersible motors for PER standard and PER/CL for 12 

## bare pumps, we're continuing to use the default 13 

## submersible motor efficiency. So submersible motor 14 

## efficiency is consistent for submersible pumps. The 15 

## default motor speed is for everybody, equivalent to 16 

## the nominal speed of the rated pump. We discussed 17 

## how to determine that previously, and the default 18 

## motor horsepower for pumps sold with motors is the 19 

## motor -- of the motor with which the pump is sold. 20 

## For bare pumps that are not sold with a 21 

## motor it is, as we discussed, the horsepower 22 

## equivalent to or greater than the measured pump shaftCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## input power at 120 percent of BEP flow. We discussed 2 

## although that previously. We just needed a specific 3 

## criteria, such that everyone would assume the same 4 

## motor size, and 120 percent of BEP flow was selected. 5 

## Yes. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 7 

## MR. RUZICKA: In the event of submersible 8 

## motors, that product is sold utilizing full NEMA 9 

## motor service factors. All those products are sold 10 

## with full service factor. So I would amend that the 11 

## submersible motors be allowed to be utilized up to 12 

## service factor. 13 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. Utilized up to the 14 

## service factor? 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Service factor. That 16 

## means? 17 

## MR. RUZICKA: Including the service 18 

## factor. If you have a NEMA service factor of a 1 19 

## horse motor which is 1.4, you're going to be able to 20 

## use 1.4 horsepower. 21 

## MS. WIDDER: 1.4. Okay, got it. 22 

## MR. RUZICKA: So if the motor is a 1Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## horse motor, right, and it's got NEMA service factor 2 

## of let's say 1.4, it's sold -- you can utilize up to 3 

## 1.4 horsepower in the product. So -- 4 

## MS. WIDDER: Right, and so this would be 5 

## applicable to bare pump case, where we would just say 6 

## for submersible motors, 120 percent of BEP flow 7 

## multiplied by the service factor. Is that what 8 

## you're saying? 9 

## MR. RUZICKA: No. I'm saying that if it 10 

## -- the bare pumps are sold for a given horsepower 11 

## rating. They're not sold for different horsepower 12 

## ratings. So if you buy a submersible pump, you're 13 

## buying a bare pump but it's a 5 horsepower liquid 14 

## end, for instance. 15 

## MS. WIDDER: Right. 16 

## MR. RUZICKA: You would have to use the 17 

## NEMA service factor for 5 horsepower, which would be 18 

## 1.15, which would be 5.75 horsepower. 19 

## MS. WIDDER: So instead of -- instead of 20 

## 120 for that? 21 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yeah. 22 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. RUZICKA: So you wouldn't say sold to 2 

## the full NEMA horsepower of the liquid end supply. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: You're referencing -- 4 

## MS. WIDDER: Based on the BEP horsepower 5 

## of the pump? 6 

## MR. RUZICKA: Based on service factor 7 

## horsepower which the pump would be sold with. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: The service factor refers 9 

## to the variation? 10 

## MS. WIDDER: Yep, we got it. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, we got it. 12 

## MR. RUZICKA: You know what it is. 13 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, yep. 14 

## MR. DELANEY: I'm not sure if I completely 15 

## understand, because service factors, the 16 

## efficiencies, the nominal flow efficiencies would not 17 

## apply to service factor. So if that's what you're 18 

## asking, then that would not be, because that's not 19 

## part of the regulation today. Service factor would 20 

## not apply to service factor or full efficiency. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 22 

## MR. RUZICKA: Unlike a lot of the surfaceCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## motors, submersible motors are designed for much 2 

## lower temperature rises and things like that. So the 3 

## actual efficiency at service factor is more often the 4 

## same or higher than full load horsepower, because 5 

## these are truly designed to be utilized with a full 6 

## service factor. They're fully submerged, they're 7 

## very, very cold low temperature rise motors, 8 

## typically in the 40 to 60 degrees C rise. 9 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: So I would say that would 10 

## be applicable. Maybe that has to be reviewed in your 11 

## submersible section, but obviously not applicable to 12 

## any of the current regulations. 13 

## MR. RUZICKA: Right. 14 

## MS. WIDDER: Right, okay. 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, got you. 16 

## MS. WIDDER: Submersible only. 17 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, got it. 18 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So this table 19 

## basically just defines, for a given pump 20 

## configuration, how do you determine what motor 21 

## efficiency, motor horsepower, motor speed do you 22 

## assume to apply the calculation-based method. That'sCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## what we're getting at there. 2 

## Here is the table of default motor 3 

## efficiencies at 10 CFR 431.25 for NEMA Design A, B 4 

## and IEC Design N motors. You can see there it's 5 

## differentiated by enclosed and open motors for 2 6 

## and 4 poles. That's all that's listed here, 7 

## because that's what's applicable to the pumps test 8 

## procedure as proposed. 9 

## DOE's proposing to use the minimum of 10 

## enclosed or open. So you can see in the purple, 11 

## again same coloring. Over on the left-hand side, the 12 

## minimum of the enclosed or open motor, which would be 13 

## the assumed motor efficiency for 2 and 4 horsepower 14 

## motors. I'm going to keep going. This is basically 15 

## the table in the CFR. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: And this is what we 17 

## referenced in the working group? 18 

## MS. WIDDER: Yep. Okay, all right. We'll 19 

## keep going? 20 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, Mark. 21 

## MR. HANDZEL: Sorry sir, but our technical 22 

## group that reviewed this made the comment that, youCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## know, your nominal efficiency, from what we 2 

## understand, means that it's the average efficiency of 3 

## a large population of motors of the same design. 4 

## Thus 50 percent of them could actually fail and not 5 

## meet nominal efficiency. 6 

## So our technical team would prefer to that 7 

## you use the minimum efficiency value from NEMA MG-1, 8 

## Part 1 or NEMA MG-1, Part 12, Table 12-10. So 9 

## otherwise, you know, we're being penalized. So that 10 

## would just be our request, and we'll clarify that 11 

## further but we think -- 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Is this another point of 13 

## consultation? I don't know. 14 

## MS. WIDDER: I think Ashley has something 15 

## to add real quick. 16 

## (Off mic comments.) 17 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Microphone. 18 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I think we will look at 19 

## it. We're pretty, I will say, perhaps you've teed up 20 

## a good discussion between DOE and the motor 21 

## manufacturers for future regulatory issues. I would 22 

## say we're pretty weary of changing from ourCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### regulatory metrics, specifically because what we've 2 

### done here is, as Sarah will get to, is utilized a 3 

### ratio. 4 

### That's important to us, because as your 5 

### motor standards increase, that ratio is going to go up. 6 

### It's not going to be the same if I use the minimums 7 

### in that table. I could probably figure out 8 

### something, but at the same time I think there's a 9 

### long history with nominal and why we got there and 10 

### what it may mean, and there has been an initiation of 11 

### a conversation about potentially moving away from 12 

### something like that in the future one day. 13 

### I don't know that we'd be willing to 14 

### necessarily change from CFR references to MG-1 15 

### references, for a variety of reasons. 16 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 17 

### MR. HANDZEL: So sorry to have to kind of 18 

### put a remark in. 19 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark. 20 

### MR. HANDZEL: How do we get a standard 21 

### like that for pumps, I guess would be a comeback? 22 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark, Paul, Paul.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. RUZICKA: I'm sorry. The only 2 

## condition, the only thing I'm going to throw back at 3 

## is if we don't use minimally efficient or minimum 4 

## NEMA efficiencies, then that entire discussion we 5 

## just had about power supply and regulation is kind of 6 

## a little bit muted. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, Brent. 8 

## MR. ROSS: Umm, of course the issue behind 9 

## it is whether a manufacturer will want to test to get 10 

## the ratings, and if they test, using the nominal puts 11 

## the testing at a disadvantage. And we already talked 12 

## about the power regulation, the way that may put the 13 

## testing at a disadvantage, and the bottom line may be 14 

## throw up our hands and say we'll just use the 15 

## calculated method, which I don't think is in people's 16 

## best interest, or the industry's best interest. 17 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thanks. Thanks for 18 

## the clarification. We're going to press on. 19 

## MS. WIDDER: Thank you for that comment. 20 

## Okay, yes. We definitely recognize all the issues. 21 

## So to the submersible motor full load efficiency 22 

## table, I promise that I would describe a little bitCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### 1 

## how this motor efficiency table was generated. So 2 

## submersible motors are not currently subject to DOE 3 

## energy conservation standards. They don't have a 4 

## default assumption. 5 

## So DOE proposed to establish a default 6 

## table of motor efficiencies, with first submersible 7 

## motors, to pair with VTS pumps or bare pumps sold 8 

## with submersible motors, when using the calculation 9 

## method and/or when calculating PER standard. 10 

## The way DOE determined this table was we 11 

## conducted a survey of as many submersible motors as 12 

## we could find industry literature and data on. From 13 

## that database, we determined the minimum observed 14 

## full load efficiency. We've listed it here for 2 15 

## poles, because that was the minimum in all cases. 16 

## But it would apply equally to 2 and 4 pole motors. 17 

## The observed number of bands below the 18 

## full load efficiency in Table 5 in 10 CFR 431.25, 19 

## this is applying the NEMA nomenclature of efficiency 20 

## bands, and basically tying these minimum observed 21 

## efficiencies at the specific horsepower bins, to the 22 

## DOE codified standards for electric motors.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## So when -- so we're all referencing the 2 

## same table, and these aren't sort of like static, 3 

## just this table that DOE published at one point in 4 

## time. So that you can see the number of bands for 5 

## each horsepower bin, the specific bins. DOE then 6 

## recognized that, you know, our survey of the industry 7 

## may not have been comprehensive. 8 

## And so to further make sure that this was 9 

## in fact representative of minimum efficiency 10 

## submersible motors, we took the minimum of a 11 

## horsepower range. So 1 to 5 horsepower, 5 to 25, 12 

## 30 to 75, and 100 to 250, and took the minimum of 13 

## those specific horsepower bins. So this is 14 

## specifying a pretty minimally efficient submersible 15 

## motor, but tying it to the motor efficiencies for the 16 

## other motors that pumps would be paired with. 17 

## So you can see applying those bands in the 18 

## third column to the table at 10 CFR that was in 19 

## the previous slide. You get these in the blue 20 

## columns, these efficiencies for 2 and 4 pole motors. 21 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 22 

## MR. RUZICKA: Sarah, we've looked at someCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## motor manufacturers that we predominantly use in our 2 

## industry, and several of these motor minimum 3 

## efficiency values are still higher than what these 4 

## guys are publishing. So we'll provide you some 5 

## updated data in a table. 6 

## MS. WIDDER: That would be very helpful to 7 

## us. 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob. 9 

## MR. BOTELER: Speaking as Nidec, not as 10 

## NEMA, as a manufacturer of vertical motors, we would 11 

## be competing with this and feel that the levels ought 12 

## to be consistent or nearly consistent with the 13 

## requirements that we have for vertical motors. But 14 

## we would recognize that there's two different types 15 

## of submersible motors. 16 

## There's some that are manufactured that 17 

## have wet rotors, and there's a lot of them that are 18 

## manufactured that have dry rotors. We would 19 

## recommend that there be two tables, one for the wet 20 

## rotor and one for the dry rotor, and the test method, 21 

## if we're going to have a metric and have the levels 22 

## of efficiency, the test method ought to be consistentCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## with what we are required to do with the DOE test 2 

## method today. 3 

## MS. WIDDER: So that's an important point 4 

## about the test method that I want to be clear about. 5 

## The test procedure is not proposing to require 6 

## testing of submersible motors, or use of any 7 

## manufacturer published efficiency information. The 8 

## table would be the only efficiencies that could be 9 

## assumed in the calculation method, to determine PEI 10 

## of submersible motors. 11 

## If you wanted to represent improved 12 

## performance of a submersible motor, you would have to 13 

## test it with the pump via the wire-to-water method. 14 

## So that's one point. So there doesn't need to be a 15 

## test procedure for submersible motors, and then 16 

## regarding how this data was collected, it is 17 

## important to note that because there isn't a test 18 

## procedure, this was a DOE survey of manufacturer 19 

## literature. 20 

## It's not clear how that data was 21 

## collected, and that's a point that we acknowledge. 22 

## It is just what is available, and so we appreciateCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## any additional data from manufacturers or users of 2 

## submersible motors. 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 4 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yes Paul. I just wanted to 5 

## clarify. I want to make sure that people understand 6 

## why submersible motors have fairly low efficiencies. 7 

## They're submersible motors. They have hermetic 8 

## sealing. They have a very, very large air gap, and 9 

## within that air gap there's a metal liner that 10 

## induces significant eddy losses, along with much 11 

## higher windage losses, because now you're filling 12 

## that gap with a 50 percent polypropylene and glycol 13 

## water mixture that's quite viscous. 14 

## Along with that, you have other mechanical 15 

## constraints, such as Kingsbury-type bearings to take 16 

## the axial thrust generated by the pump liquid end. 17 

## So all these features drive this motor efficiency 18 

## much, much lower. That, along with a long, skinny 19 

## rotor, you know, very long slender rotor, you have a 20 

## lot more iron losses, a lot more core losses. 21 

## So these motors are much more, how can I 22 

## say, much lower efficiencies than what's typical of aCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## surface motor. So just for the team and the group 2 

## here for understanding, and why -- yep. And this is 3 

## VTS only product 4 and 6 inches. So we've got 4 

## to be very careful with that. 5 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob. 7 

## MR. BOTELER: And that's -- this is Rob 8 

## Boteler. And that's why when I mentioned that 9 

## there's two different types, because we have looked 10 

## at the type with air, and we see no reason why we 11 

## couldn't go to 1212. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 13 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So that's -- thank you 14 

## for your comments on the default assumed motor 15 

## efficiency. I'm now going to move on to determining 16 

## motor losses. This method would be applied to the 17 

## motor in the calculation method, regardless of 18 

## whether you're using the default motor efficiencies 19 

## we just discussed, or the nominal full load motor 20 

## efficiency of a covered electric motor. 21 

## This was also discussed at length in the 22 

## working group. When calculating PER standard orCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## PER/CL, we wanted to represent that the full load of 2 

## motor efficiency changes as a function of loading, to 3 

## generate the way in which that loading or the 4 

## efficiency changes, you determined the full load and 5 

## part load motor losses at 25, 50, 75 and 100 percent 6 

## of BEP or of loading of the motor. 7 

## DOE reviewed data submitted by NEMA, as 8 

## well as data in the Motor Masters database and Motor 9 

## Challenge, which is a DOE program. So as much data 10 

## that we could find about efficiency of motors at part 11 

## load. We developed this curve, which is shown here. 12 

## You have coefficients and the cubic polynomial. 13 

## The next slide, I think, has a depiction 14 

## of it. Here it is. Here's all the data and DOE 15 

## selected the maximum losses, or the minimum 16 

## efficiency in all of the data. So the red is the 17 

## most conservative loss fraction. That's what the 18 

## coefficients are determined, based on -- you can see 19 

## the other data that is sort of falling down in 20 

## between that. 21 

## Then DOE determined that the losses at 22 

## each load point, this is the bottom three, would beCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### determined based on taking the full load losses times 2 

### this loss factor that was determined. This is 3 

### described in more detail in the NOPR, and there's 4 

### also a memo in the docket describing this analysis 5 

### method. So I will take any brief comments on it at 6 

### this point, but also encourage written comments. 7 

### MR. RUZICKA: Unfortunately we missed one 8 

### comment on page 110 of NOPR, which was something 9 

### where we needed to talk about, just real briefly, the 10 

### proposal to conduct all calculations and corrections 11 

### in nominal speed or using raw data values. Are we going 12 

### to be using the raw data, or are we going to be using 13 

### extrapolated data using affinity laws? 14 

### Because raw data means at pump running 15 

### speed. Extrapolated means to the pole speed that 16 

### you're going to be calculating to. 17 

### MS. WIDDER: So that's two different 18 

### things in a way. So the raw measured values that come 19 

### out of HI 40.6 are not to be -- are to be modified or 20 

### normalized to pump speed, and then all of these 21 

### calculations will be applied to them, and then the 22 

### proposal is rounded at the very end.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. RUZICKA: Okay. So the question was 2 

## answered. You're going to want the data -- it's not 3 

## raw data, but normalized data? 4 

## MS. WIDDER: Yes. As part of the test 5 

## procedure, you normalize to rated speed. 6 

## MR. RUZICKA: Okay. But the data says 7 

## using -- the statement says using raw data, we should 8 

## say "using normalized raw data." 9 

## MS. WIDDER: I get -- yes. That's a good 10 

## clarification. 11 

## MR. RUZICKA: Okay. 12 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, and I will note that 13 

## not all of the requests for comments are in the 14 

## slides. 15 

## (Off mic comment.) 16 

## MS. WIDDER: Yeah, okay, great. On this? 17 

## Okay. We also will fully consider written comments. 18 

## Okay. So this is going to discuss in more detail the 19 

## calculation and testing-based methods. We discussed 20 

## their applicability earlier. This will look 21 

## hopefully extremely similar to slides that we've gone 22 

## over in the working group.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. ARMSTRONG: With that in mind, I'm 2 

## actually going to ask. Before we go and present 3 

## every one of these, are there ones that we can just 4 

## hit on a high level? Are there certain issues that 5 

## you had a chance to look at? Do you want to take 6 

## lunch and look at them? I'm trying to catch up here, 7 

## because we're pretty behind, and so I do want to get 8 

## to the standards and at least have some discussion of 9 

## that before running out of time today. 10 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Maybe we should pause for 11 

## lunch and let them look and flag the areas that 12 

## really require discussion. 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Right. I know you guys 14 

## still want to talk about the representation date and 15 

## the U.S. Code thing you brought up at the very 16 

## beginning in your opening remarks. We can definitely 17 

## do that, not a problem. But outside of that are 18 

## there, you know, most of this stuff was discussed in 19 

## pretty nitty-gritty detail as part of the working 20 

## group, and by no means am I trying to cut your 21 

## comment availability or questions short. But just in 22 

## -- yep.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. HUBER: Al Huber. From our 2 

## standpoint, we have no -- we have no issues that we 3 

## think you need to discuss, at least down through 4 

## Issue 60. 5 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. 6 

## MR. HUBER: No actually 63. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Start at 63. 8 

## MR. HUBER: We won't need to -- we don't 9 

## have any comment other than 63, except the only 10 

## comment we made is -- the caveat to that is that you 11 

## make a correction to the calculations, which you've 12 

## already done. 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes. We've already 14 

## committed to doing, correct. 15 

## MR. HUBER: We're happy with that. So as 16 

## far as we're concerned from our group, we don't need 17 

## to even discuss it until you get to Issue 63. 18 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Great. So is there anyone 19 

## else in the room that would like us to go through 20 

## this, or should we break for lunch and give you a 21 

## chance to at least look at it? Because I know Dan 22 

## looks like he's ready here to jump in.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## (Off mic comment.) 2 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So perhaps break for lunch 3 

## now, regroup after one, and then I'm going to plan to 4 

## start up with slide, let's see -- 5 

## (Off mic comments.) 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: We'll go all the way to 7 

## page 84. 8 

## MS. WIDDER: Issue 63 isn't presented in 9 

## the slides right now, but we -- all right. I would 10 

## have to look it up. 11 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: We're going to start 12 

## somewhere between roughly 80-ish and 90, so if you 13 

## have a particular opinion about where that is, let us 14 

## know when you get back. 15 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah, and also you can 16 

## flag any other slide that we haven't covered, if we 17 

## need to back up, okay. So we're going to break for 18 

## lunch. It's now 12:30. We have now proven that 19 

## numbers of individuals have shown that they can do 20 

## lunch here in 45 minutes. It's been proven once. 21 

## (Off mic comments.) 22 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: We've got a lot to coverCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## here. I was going to suggest 45 minutes, right, and 2 

## the fastest place is probably the Subway shop down on 3 

## the ground floor and the big cafeteria, which means 4 

## we'll be resuming at 1:15. 5 

## Please make sure you've got your ID. This 6 

## room will be secured. You can leave your stuff here, 7 

## and we'll see you back here. Take a look at these 8 

## slides over lunch, so we don't miss anything. 1:15. 9 

## (Whereupon, a luncheon recess was taken.) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 2 

## (1:27 p.m.) 3 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: We're about to resume, so 4 

## please take your seats. So maybe we've confirmed 5 

## that it's more than 45 minutes for lunch. Another 6 

## group did it one time, and maybe we need to be close 7 

## to an hour here to get everyone back. 8 

## (Off mic comment.) 9 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, okay. Let's make 10 

## sure the record captures that, and I'm sure that your 11 

## reward will certainly be there in heaven or wherever 12 

## at some point in the future. 13 

## (Off mic comments.) 14 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: So at lunch, as we broke 15 

## for lunch, Ashley was asking you to take a peek at 16 

## these slides. There's a lot of detailed content 17 

## here. We literally left off on slide 70, and asking 18 

## you to review them, thinking that maybe some of these 19 

## we can skip. Maybe many of them we can skip and Al, 20 

## I believe your last comment was that you'd reviewed 21 

## them and you didn't have any substantive, major 22 

## issues, except for one or two further on in thisCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## context. 2 

## I didn't want to diminish anyone's 3 

## capacity to comment on any of these slides. But if 4 

## folks are pretty comfortable with a lot of them, then 5 

## maybe we can just advance. Dan. 6 

## MR. DELANEY: So Dan Delaney for Regal. 7 

## What were we proposing? Where were we going to start 8 

## from the slide number? 9 

## MS. WIDDER: We had talked about somewhere 10 

## starting around slide 80. 11 

## MR. DELANEY: Okay. So I guess my only 12 

## comment, back to some earlier discussions with Sarah 13 

## and Ashley before we broke, the reason I didn't 14 

## mention some of the other standards at Lucas, who had 15 

## been involved in the ASRAC before, there are some 16 

## standards out there in development. 17 

## One's released. It's the European 18 

## standard, EN 50598. Sarah mentioned she has reviewed 19 

## it, reviewed some of the content of the information. 20 

## We'd love to propose that. Unfortunately, it's a 21 

## European standard. It's not 60 Hz obviously 22 

## normalized for our sake. There is a IEC standard inCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## development. 2 

## But just some of the conversations that we 3 

## had here, you know. I don't think we do need to 4 

## review this, as Sarah mentioned. You know, much of 5 

## that conversation still can be discussed in some of 6 

## the future stuff. But I just want to make that 7 

## comment, that obviously the work that the motor and 8 

## drive manufacturers are focused on is an IEC 61800 9 

## standard that does take a look at this motor and 10 

## control method. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: And just the time table 12 

## on that is? 13 

## MR. DELANEY: So the time table on that is 14 

## actually out for vote now. It could be released in 15 

## 2015 if there are no major technical hurdles. So it 16 

## could be as early as October, maybe as late as 17 

## December. But if there are technical hurdles to the 18 

## standard, then it would carry into probably 2016, 19 

## because you'd have to make revisions. 20 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 21 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: This is Ashley from DOE. 22 

## I think realistically from our perspective, thatCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## that's a great idea for the future. I'm not sure 2 

## that at this juncture where we are and where we need 3 

## to go. We can look at it, but I'm not sure that we 4 

## would be able to move to that method now, only 5 

## because what we'd need to understand is with that -- 6 

## with that method and with the changes for the motors 7 

## and controls, how would that impact PEI and PER from 8 

## a pump-specific perspective, and I'm just not sure. 9 

## Maybe I don't know the answer to this, but 10 

## I'm not sure that the data exists to specifically 11 

## compare what we have proposed today and then what the 12 

## PEI and PERs might be, in conjunction with the pumps 13 

## using that method. 14 

## MR. DELANEY: So good point, and I guess 15 

## what I'm not -- I'm not proposing in whole adoption, 16 

## because it's not ready. But if there's elements of 17 

## that. There's two elements I think that are probably 18 

## the most important. There is the 19 

## interpolation/extrapolation method that's defined as 20 

## a statistical method. That's very helpful. 21 

## So obviously from the data that's there, a 22 

## common method to the points that the pumpCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### manufacturers are going to need obviously for their 2 

### data. 3 

### And then second of all, the whole concept 4 

### of reference losses, already incorporated, right, in 5 

### this concept. The reference dry losses, which 6 

### obviously I missed because maybe it's in a TSD, maybe 7 

### it's in other information. I didn't see it in the 8 

### test NOPR. I didn't go in the NOPR I guess in enough 9 

### detail. 10 

### But nonetheless that definition of 11 

### reference control losses is a benefit, and as Sarah 12 

### said, we'll provide some comments and information 13 

### there. Hopefully that's helpful. But again, we 14 

### understand it's not -- can't directly reference the 15 

### standard, because it's not released. 16 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. So we're proposing 17 

### to pick up at slide 80, unless someone needs us to go 18 

### back. Oh I see. Paul please, let us know what we 19 

### needed. 20 

### MR. RUZICKA: Yes. We wanted to comment 21 

### on Issue 63, which unfortunately wasn't part of the slide 22 

### deck.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, and how would -- 2 

## MS. WIDDER: I'm just going to read Issue 3 

## 63, and then -- 4 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Please do. 5 

## MR. RUZICKA: Please. 6 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. DOE requests comment 7 

## on its proposal to determine BEP for pumps rated with 8 

## testing-based methods, by using the ratio of input 9 

## power to the driver or continuous control, if any, 10 

## over pump hydraulic output. DOE also seeks input on 11 

## the degree to which this method may yield 12 

## significantly different BEP points, from the case 13 

## where BEP is determined based on pump efficiency, 14 

## which is the case for bare pumps. 15 

## Just a tiny bit of background. DOE 16 

## proposed this method because under the wire-to-water 17 

## testing method, if you measure input power to the 18 

## motor or control and pump hydraulic output power, 19 

## determining shaft input power to the pump or speed 20 

## and torque is not required. 21 

## And so that would be an additional 22 

## measurement, if BEP were to be determined based onCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## pump efficiency. So from a burden-reducing 2 

## perspective, considering that it might not be that 3 

## different, we proposed that BEP for tested products 4 

## be based on the overall efficiency, as opposed to 5 

## pump efficiency. That was the basis for it, but we'd 6 

## welcome comments on that. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 8 

## MR. RUZICKA: Yes. Well, the Hydraulics 9 

## Institute believes that we can only determine the 10 

## true BEP for the product rated, the pump being rated, 11 

## through a bare pump test. 12 

## So it has to be using the same flows. 13 

## Otherwise, it's going to add additional burden for 14 

## more testing, because now you'll have to test the 15 

## different flow rates, and then redetermine BEP based 16 

## on different configurations. 17 

## MS. WIDDER: So this would only be for a 18 

## pump sold with a motor that is not tested as a bare 19 

## pump. If you were to test it as a bare pump, and 20 

## then test it as a bare pump with calculations 21 

## associated with the motor, we'll consider that 22 

## comment, certainly.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. RUZICKA: According to the standard, 2 

## you would have to test the bare pump in order to get 3 

## those numbers, regardless. 4 

## MS. WIDDER: If you only sold the pump 5 

## with a motor, and you only tested it and you didn't 6 

## perform any calculation-based approach, that would be 7 

## the case in which this applies. But since it's -- 8 

## you're recommending that we use pump efficiency in 9 

## all cases, that will just mean additional testing is 10 

## required in that case potentially. 11 

## MR. RUZICKA: Actually would reduce the 12 

## test burden, because now you'd have flow points that 13 

## you'd be able to utilize during your constant load 14 

## with a given motor or your variable load. Now you'd 15 

## have those defined with previous testing. So you 16 

## wouldn't have to repeat testing to redetermine a new 17 

## location of a BEP based on the configuration of the 18 

## product. 19 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay, noted. 20 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, Paul. 21 

## MR. RUZICKA: Thanks. 22 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, yeah. So now, withCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## no additional questions or comments, we're going to 2 

## go to slide 80 and pick up there. 3 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So I just wanted to 4 

## also mention in relation to Dan's comment, this is 5 

## the efficiency, combined efficiency of a motor and 6 

## control, that is proposed to be used for the 7 

## calculation-based approach, for pumps rated with a 8 

## motor and control. So this assumes losses associated 9 

## with a motor and control, as defined previously. 10 

## Some of the standard EN 50598 that Dan was 11 

## referencing would put -- would be relevant for 12 

## consideration here. So would potentially replace 13 

## this material, supplement this material. But this is 14 

## where it would be applied, when we're considering 15 

## efficiency of the drive or drive losses. Just for 16 

## everyone so we're all on the same page. 17 

## Now we're going to Slide 80. Okay. So 18 

## this is discussing the physical testing-based 19 

## approaches. We sort of glossed over the 20 

## calculation-based approaches, but I think we 21 

## discussed that at a high level previously. You 22 

## test the pump. You have assumptions about motorCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## full efficiency and motor performance at part load, 2 

## and assumptions about the control, if present. 3 

## Then you combine all that via an algorithm 4 

## and you get a resultant PEI. If you are rating a 5 

## pump that is not -- that is sold with a motor that's 6 

## not covered by DOE's energy conservation standards, 7 

## or it's covered, but you want to test the 8 

## product, or it's rated with non-continuous controls. 9 

## You'll remember that slide. 10 

## I actually think this slide, where we 11 

## showed where testing and calculation-based approaches 12 

## were applicable. So there's cases where only the 13 

## testing-based approaches apply. So I'm just going to 14 

## talk through those testing-based approaches real 15 

## briefly. This is actually discussing the point that 16 

## Paul brought up. So here, you're determining via a 17 

## wire-to-water test the performance of a combined pump 18 

## and motor. 19 

## The green arrows indicate measurement 20 

## points as proposed in accordance with the DOE test 21 

## procedure. You'll noticed there's no measurement in 22 

## between the pump and the motor. So for this basicCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## model, right, as proposed in the NOPR, there's no 2 

## measurement of pump shaft input power. 3 

## Therefore, it's not possible to determine 4 

## pump efficiency, which is why DOE proposed that the 5 

## BEP be determined based on overall efficiency, for 6 

## the purposes of determining PEI, PER and calculating 7 

## the necessary metrics. And then you would just 8 

## weight those -- the input power measured to the motor 9 

## at the three load points to get your PER, take a 10 

## ratio to get PEI. That's pumps sold with a motor. 11 

## It looks like Paul has an additional comment. 12 

## (Off mic comment.) 13 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. Yep, no problem. So 14 

## similarly for a pump sold with a motor and control, 15 

## now the green arrow is expanded to include the 16 

## control. Again, you're measuring just energy into 17 

## the pump, and hydraulic power out. You take a ratio 18 

## of those values. This is extremely similar to the 19 

## previous procedure for pumps and motors. 20 

## The main difference is -- are that you 21 

## would determine the BEP of the pump based on overall 22 

## efficiency but at full speed. So at the rated speedCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## of the pump, and then the testing would allow speed 2 

## reduction to achieve the same points that are on the 3 

## reference system curve, which we sort of blew past. 4 

## So I'll just show that here. 5 

## This was discussed in the working group. 6 

## It's a reference system curve. More or less follows 7 

## the affinity laws, but based on the recommendations 8 

## of the working group, it incorporates a static head 9 

## component, which is slightly different than the 10 

## fundamental affinity laws. 11 

## So you would calculate the flow and head 12 

## points at 100, 75, 50 and 25 percent of BEP flow 13 

## rate, following that green curve, and basically 14 

## throttle down your speed and maybe adjust the head to 15 

## achieve those points with the tested product, and I 16 

## have a picture of what that might look like. 17 

## So here we are. There's the -- the red 18 

## points are the rated flow rates that you calculated, 19 

## based on the reference system curve, and the blue 20 

## points are hypothetical tested points, where you're 21 

## within this 10 percent bound around flow and head, 22 

## and then you adjust back to the rated system curve orCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## the reference system curve, based on linear 2 

## interpolation of the head and flow points. 3 

## So we're going back to where we're 4 

## supposed to be, but allowing for some test tolerance 5 

## there, but following the reference system curve. So 6 

## that's for continuous controls. That would be the 7 

## testing based method. Here's where we get to the 8 

## multi-speed motor non-continuous control approach. 9 

## This is the only method that's applicable for non10 

## continuous controls. You have to test. 11 

## So again you see the red points that 12 

## correspond to the rated values, where you know, the 13 

## calculated flow and head point, based on the 14 

## reference system curve. But in this case you'll see 15 

## that the blue points are not achieved by the 2- 16 

## speed motor in this case, because there's only full 17 

## speed and half speed. So you can't follow the system 18 

## curve completely. 19 

## You would adjust the flow rate to the 20 

## appropriate value, and then based on your motor 21 

## ratio, operate at the appropriate speed, which may be 22 

## on the full speed curve or may be on the half speedCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## curve. And in this case, instead of interpolating, 2 

## you would use the measured head. 3 

## So you would just use -- that's why 4 

## there's not, you know, error bars in both directions 5 

## here. You just use the measured head. You do 6 

## interpolate the flow rate, and you only interpolate 7 

## up. So if you were to be below this curve, you can 8 

## get back to the reference curve. But if you're up 9 

## here, this is the head that you would have to use. 10 

## That's laid out in detail in the NOPR. We 11 

## have request for comment on those proposed methods. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 13 

## MR. RUZICKA: On the full system curve, 14 

## the full VL, again the same comment applies to the 15 

## location of the BEP. 16 

## MS. WIDDER: So you'd like it to be based 17 

## on pump efficiency? 18 

## MR. RUZICKA: Correct. 19 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. So this is just a 20 

## summary slide of the application of testing-based 21 

## test methods, based on pump configuration. So you'll 22 

## notice that the testing-based method isn't applicableCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### to bare pumps, but tested wire-to-water performance 2 

### as proposed is applicable to the pump, regardless of the 3 

### configuration in which it's sold. 4 

### Either the pump plus motor 5 

### PEI/CL method or the pump plus motor controls PEI/VL 6 

### method, and we have numbers here, B.2, C.2. The 7 

### calculation-based we refer to as A.1, 8 

### B.1, C.1, just to keep them all straight. This is a 9 

### summary slide of both the calculation-based test 10 

### method and physical testing-based test method for -- it's 11 

### taking those diagrams of pumps and creating words, so 12 

### we could fit everything on the slide. 13 

### But basically the pump, applicable pump 14 

### configurations and then the two, one or two methods 15 

### that would be applicable to that case. DOE requests 16 

### comment on a number of items, but generally how the 17 

### proposed test methods are applied to the different 18 

### pump configurations, dependent on the type of motor 19 

### control with which the pump is sold. 20 

### We can go back to this slide. In general, 21 

### we tried to give people as much flexibility as 22 

### possible. So that's why we have testing orCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## calculation options, so you can do either. But in 2 

## some cases, we couldn't do the calculation. That was 3 

## our general approach. 4 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah, well you want to -- 5 

## yeah. Hey -- 6 

## (Off mic comments.) 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: I was thinking that -- I 8 

## was going to let this consultation go on for a little 9 

## bit, because it seemed like you're -- 10 

## (Off mic comments.) 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: No need, okay. Mark 12 

## Handzel. 13 

## MR. HANDZEL: No, I was just going to -- I 14 

## mean obviously, we're still trying to digest the 15 

## whole power quality issue that we talked about 16 

## earlier, and all of these are influenced by that. 17 

## MS. WIDDER: Uh-huh. 18 

## MR. HANDZEL: So you know, we said we were 19 

## going to try to give you some guidance on that. But 20 

## all this stuff is, you know, we're just kind of 21 

## listening at this point, because we're trying to 22 

## figure out how we're going to address that.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. WIDDER: Okay. 2 

## MR. HANDZEL: Okay. 3 

## (Off mic comments.) 4 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: So let the -- okay. So 5 

## then written comments on all of this, and then we'll 6 

## proceed with Sarah. 7 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. The next slide 8 

## discusses representations of energy use. We 9 

## discussed this a little bit when we were discussing 10 

## the basic model concept. 11 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So why don't you let me do 12 

## these? 13 

## MS. WIDDER: Yes. Go for it. 14 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So I think this is an area 15 

## for which we have some questions. So the way this 16 

## works is we have a statutory provision that kicks in. 17 

## Upon DOE issuing a final rule of a test procedure, 18 

## and as clarified in the proposed rule, 19 

## representations of energy use or energy efficiency 20 

## must be made in accordance with the DOE test 21 

## procedure, beginning 180 days from adoption of the 22 

## final rule.Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## There are some nuances here, and we did 2 

## acknowledge that some of the values needed to do such 3 

## things that are in the standard rules, that we need 4 

## to marry up those dates in recognition of that. 5 

## Another thing we did that was pump-specific in the 6 

## rule was to talk about exactly what types of other -- 7 

## recognizing that you guys make a lot of 8 

## representations now, and that we are pulling together 9 

## different pieces of -- for motors, controls and then 10 

## the pump, to ultimately get to that final regulatory 11 

## metric of PEI and PER, we did talk about some interim 12 

## values that you may get from the test procedure, or 13 

## you may get from other things you are doing now, that 14 

## you would be able to continue to be able to use or 15 

## make representations of. 16 

## Typically, the way this works is once DOE 17 

## issues the final rule, you must make representations 18 

## of efficiency only with their metric. So while 19 

## there's some nuances that are associated with pumps, 20 

## I'm going to try to head off the question before we 21 

## get there. 22 

## So one of the things I think that'sCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## important to note here is that since the final rule 2 

## is coming down the pathway, that representations of 3 

## PEI and PER are going to be voluntary, in the interim 4 

## period between the 180 day time frame and the 5 

## compliance date of standards. 6 

## So if you decide to make representations 7 

## of PEI and PER, you must do it in accordance with our 8 

## test procedure. However, it's at your discretion to 9 

## do it until the compliance date of the standards, 10 

## should that rule be adopted as proposed. So you have 11 

## that time period to get everything in order, and once 12 

## you start doing it, you need to do it in accordance 13 

## with our test procedure for PEI and PER. But you do 14 

## have some leeway there. 15 

## I don't think that answers all of your 16 

## question that I know is coming, but I think that's 17 

## what we're willing to explain today, and then we will 18 

## go back and try to -- go ahead, I'll let you ask it 19 

## first. 20 

## MR. HUBER: Al Huber. Well you know, our 21 

## concern is that we market every day with pump 22 

## efficiency, and we have curves and we have all kindCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## of electronic versions of that and all these other -- 2 

## and they're a representation of efficiency on our 3 

## product. 4 

## If within 180 days we had to pull all that 5 

## back, we'd have no sales tools, which the market 6 

## wouldn't like, because they would be asking us, you 7 

## know, they would be asking us for these curves. So 8 

## that obviously won't work. 9 

## So it is our assumption that as long as we 10 

## don't quote it as meeting a PER or a PEI or whatever, 11 

## as long as we don't do that, until such time as we 12 

## have tested it with this method and followed these 13 

## guidelines, then the representation that we are 14 

## making today are perfectly acceptable, until such 15 

## time as the regulation comes into effect; is that 16 

## correct? 17 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: So I can't say yes or no 18 

## today. But, but we will answer it before the close 19 

## of the comment period. I will get back to you with 20 

## an answer shortly. I think what you're asking us 21 

## basically is DOE, can we continue to make 22 

## representations of our pump, which come in a varietyCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## of different things, as long as we don't make 2 

## representations of the DOE regulatory metric within 3 

## that interim period? 4 

## And then as we transition to do that, we 5 

## understand that our responsibility is to transition 6 

## all of them at the same time over that period of, you 7 

## know, the compliance date, four years, three years, 8 

## whatever it is. And so I think that's all right to 9 

## ask, and give me a week or so to get the right 10 

## wording through my counterparts, and we'll get back 11 

## to you. 12 

## MR. HUBER: Okay, thank you. 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes. 14 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Joanna. 15 

## MS. MAUER: Just quickly, I don't remember 16 

## where we ended up on this, but I think there was a 17 

## little bit of discussion related to the issue of 18 

## manufacturers having the option if they want to make 19 

## representations about PEI before the compliance date 20 

## of the standard, and if manufacturers are interested 21 

## in that option, it may be useful if it's possible for 22 

## the DOE certification database to be up and running,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### to facilitate incentive programs in the meantime 2 

### before the compliance date. 3 

### MS. ARMSTRONG: We can do that, if that's 4 

### what you want. Is that what you want? 5 

### MR. HANDZEL: Well I mean we have -- 6 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark Handzel. 7 

### MR. HANDZEL: Sorry. We have interested 8 

### utilities already asking us for that data, you know. 9 

### They want us to agree to a standard that is based on the 10 

### calculator and everything else. So obviously we need 11 

### a way to be able to report that data, so that we can 12 

### do what they want to do too. So I would say as soon 13 

### as the DOE could get it up, we would start populating 14 

### it. 15 

### MS. ARMSTRONG: Fair enough, thanks. 16 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Brent. 17 

### MR. ROSS: I would just expand on Al's 18 

### comment on sales tools in the information we list 19 

### today. You know, they're not -- sales tools are used 20 

### by our customers for their detailed application 21 

### comments, and basically they could not use our 22 

### product without having that information. So thatCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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### would be included in the term "sales tools." 2 

### CHAIR BROOKMAN: Right. Thank you, okay. 3 

### MS. WIDDER: I think one additional point 4 

### that I'll just -- written comments on this would be 5 

### great. But you see a number of metrics listed here 6 

### that are not in the bright blue, pump efficiency, 7 

### overall efficiency, bowl efficiency, input power, 8 

### etcetera, etcetera. Those are all not the 9 

### DOE-regulated metric. 10 

### MS. ARMSTRONG: So just -- and you did make a 11 

### point to point out some of these metrics. But your question 12 

### still applies, and my answer still applies, about 13 

### we're not ready to quite say yes or no yet. 14 

### MS. WIDDER: Right. 15 

### I just wanted to know if 16 

### anything else should be on the list of metrics. 17 

### (No response.) 18 

### MS. WIDDER: Okay. Moving on. so the 19 

### next couple of slides, we are making great progress. 20 

### Good job everyone. It's about sampling plans for 21 

### pumps. So sampling plans in general essentially 22 

### describe the number of specific units that aCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## manufacturer must test, in order to determine a 2 

## certified rating. 3 

## So you have to typically test at least two 4 

## to get an average. I know that that number is 5 

## representative of the population of pump units that 6 

## you're representing with that basic model rating. So 7 

## that's in general the concept. 8 

## DOE proposed in the NOPR that manufacturers must 9 

## determine the certified rating for pumps, similar to 10 

## the manner that's applied to other commercial 11 

## equipment, based on testing of a randomly selected 12 

## sample of sufficient size, such that the PEI/CL or VL 13 

## shall be greater than or equal to the higher of the 14 

## mean of the sample. So if you have two, that's why 15 

## you need at least two to create a mean, or the upper 16 

## 95 percent confidence limit of the true mean divided 17 

## by 1.1. 18 

## This is basically applying the statistical 19 

## method to account for manufacturing variability and 20 

## test tolerances, in determining the certified rating. 21 

## To pass in either case, whichever is higher to pass 22 

## or be in compliance with the standard, the certifiedCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## rating determined would need to be less than 1.0 on 2 

## the compliance date of the energy conservation 3 

## standard, if adopted. 4 

## So DOE requests comment on the proposed 5 

## sampling plan, and specifically data about the 6 

## manufacturing variability or variability of tested 7 

## equipment is helpful in determining what these 8 

## thresholds should be. 9 

## MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel. We agree with 10 

## the sampling plan. 11 

## MS. WIDDER: Great, thank you. 12 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, any additional 13 

## comments here, noting that we're trying to keep 14 

## moving it right along. 15 

## MS. WIDDER: Okay. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 17 

## MS. WIDDER: So the very last slide 18 

## that I have to present today is about -- there's a 19 

## lot of details in the NOPR, that I encourage everyone 20 

## and especially manufacturers to review. DOE 21 

## conducted a regulatory flexibility analysis of the 22 

## proposed test procedure, which basically tried toCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## quantify the burden associated with complying with 2 

## the test procedure. 3 

## We've had a little bit of discussion here 4 

## today about purchasing new equipment or what might -- 5 

## what upgrades might be necessary to pump test 6 

## facilities as they currently exist, to conduct the 7 

## test procedure in accordance with the proposal. 8 

## So DOE performs an analysis to try to 9 

## determine what the burden associated with 10 

## constructing the test facility, to conduct the 11 

## testing would be, and amortize that based on the 12 

## annual sales. DOE also focused in particular on 13 

## small manufacturers of pumps, using the SBA size 14 

## standard of less than or equal to 500 employees, 15 

## based on the NAICS code listed for pumps and pumping 16 

## equipment manufacturers. 17 

## DOE determined that there's 25 small 18 

## manufacturers, and applied this burden specifically 19 

## to those small manufacturers. The goal of the 20 

## Regulatory Flexibility Act is to determine if there 21 

## is a significant impact on a small number -- if there 22 

## is an impact, a significant impact on a number ofCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## small entities, or something like that. 2 

## So we look in particular at the small 3 

## manufacturers, the number of basic models that would 4 

## require to be certified by large and small 5 

## manufacturers, and then specifically the burden, and 6 

## all the details associated with this calculation and 7 

## what you assumed in the NOPR, and we request comments 8 

## on those assumptions, and especially additional data 9 

## that would help us revise those estimates, if 10 

## necessary. 11 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark Handzel. 12 

## MR. HANDZEL: So Mark Handzel. So Sarah, 13 

## we've obviously covered some points today that, you 14 

## know, we have a great deal of concerns about the 15 

## burdens that some of the parts of the test NOPR are 16 

## going to cause the industry, in particular small 17 

## manufacturers. 18 

## You know, I think, you know, you can go 19 

## through a laundry list, but clearly the power quality 20 

## is huge on our list. I think, you know, we also -- 21 

## there's some other points where there's some comments 22 

## about the cost of a test lab, and you know, we thinkCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## some manufacturers are going to have to build new 2 

## test lab, and we think the cost that you guys are 3 

## using is significantly below. 4 

## But we really -- we don't have specific 5 

## survey data, but I think you need to -- well not you, 6 

## but obviously if the group came out and interviewed a 7 

## number of us, I just think it might be worthy of 8 

## going back and asking who's built a test lab lately 9 

## and what did you spend, because we think that would 10 

## be noteworthy. 11 

## I think the last thing just that, you 12 

## know, certainly we know that there are third party 13 

## test facilities available, but due to some of the 14 

## things, you know, they don't necessarily have power 15 

## quality equipment either. You know, so how would DOE 16 

## even test pumps at a third party if you can't find 17 

## somebody who has power quality? 18 

## So I just think this whole area, it all 19 

## kind of feeds on itself, that it requires a lot more 20 

## discussion. You know, certainly we talked at lunch 21 

## and the NEMA guy said why don't we get together and 22 

## talk about how you test and we'll talk about how weCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## test and, you know, we'll do that together, help us 2 

## form our written comments. 3 

## But you just start to see this is 4 

## something we never talked about in the working group 5 

## and, you know, raises some very serious concerns for 6 

## the pump industry. 7 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 8 

## MR. HANDZEL: I think Al would add to 9 

## that. 10 

## MR. HUBER: Oh yeah. I just want to add 11 

## that when you came out and did the surveys, people 12 

## were thinking about or manufacturers were thinking 13 

## about just running tests. They didn't have all the 14 

## particulars that you have in this document, which 15 

## certainly changed the cost of doing it. So I think 16 

## you need to be aware of that. 17 

## So the information that you got originally 18 

## is probably not accurate, because it wasn't based on 19 

## the requirements that you have. This, we kicked it 20 

## around a good bit about the power quality, and it is 21 

## ^^^^ that is going to be huge for every 22 

## manufacturer, because none of us, none of us haveCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## that equipment to do it. 2 

## We have no idea how much it will cost. We 3 

## have some idea of just controlling the voltage is 4 

## going to cost somewhere between 50 and 100 thousand 5 

## dollars, and that's just that piece of equipment, and 6 

## then we've got to worry about power factor and the 7 

## rest of it. 8 

## So you know, it's kind of like asking the 9 

## motor people to go get hydraulic test equipment, to 10 

## test their motors with. I mean it's something that 11 

## we'll have to go look at. But I do want to caution 12 

## the Department to be careful with this, because this 13 

## could severely impact the small and medium-sized 14 

## manufacturers, to the point they may not be able to 15 

## comply. 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 17 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Can I ask one question 18 

## though? 19 

## MR. HANDZEL: I just have one last thing 20 

## too, just one second. It's big for large 21 

## manufacturers too, because I have three plants in the 22 

## U.S., all within their own test labs, okay. So eachCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## one of them would have to have these upgrades that 2 

## we're talking about. So it's -- 3 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Well, if we get rid of the 4 

## power quality issue or at least table it for now, or 5 

## have more discussions about the ways to reduce it, 6 

## does that eliminate most of the concerns that we're 7 

## hearing about? 8 

## MR. HUBER: It certainly goes a long way 9 

## towards helping us with this. 10 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I just want to make -- 11 

## MR. HUBER: It's the biggest problem we 12 

## see. 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. I just want to 14 

## clarify, because I mean for the -- let's put it this 15 

## way. You know, 95 percent of our proposal is either 16 

## largely based on the HI method, for which you guys 17 

## were all involved in, or what you guys negotiated 18 

## and/or are doing today. So some of that -- so I get 19 

## the power quality issue is well taken. I think there 20 

## are some kind of things, further conversations and 21 

## some issues that we can work out. 22 

## But I just wanted to understand if, youCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## know, assuming that goes away or is dealt with in 2 

## appropriate manner that is resolved to all parties' 3 

## liking, seemingly that would eliminate the concerns 4 

## you guys are speaking of, for the most part. 5 

## MR. HANDZEL: So Mark Handzel, just to 6 

## answer that Ashley. I would just say that the power 7 

## conditioning is clearly number one and the single 8 

## most largest that would impact all of us. But I 9 

## think the data acquisition is for the smaller guys -- 10 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Great, but you're going to 11 

## propose a solution for that for us. 12 

## MR. HANDZEL: Right, right, no exactly. 13 

## So we are going to come back with a recommendation. 14 

## I think if you wanted to scale them up, clearly power 15 

## conditioning has turned into our single biggest 16 

## issue. 17 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay, fair enough, thanks. 18 

## MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary for the 19 

## California Utilities. Power quality is a big factor 20 

## that affects us. So if we're going to be talking 21 

## about integral pump motor products, we want to know 22 

## all about how those are going to treat our electricCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## grids, as well as what water we get out of it. 2 

## Anything short of that isn't satisfactory, because 3 

## it's electricity in with all of its warts, versus 4 

## water out. 5 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 6 

## MR. FERSTROM: You folks from the 7 

## Northwest have anything to add to that? 8 

## (Off mic comment.) 9 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 10 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I don't think -- so I do 11 

## think there's a little bit of difference in things 12 

## that we're talking about. Your point's well taken 13 

## about you want to understand what that's doing. But 14 

## I think that our requirements are more on the input 15 

## side and conditioning it for the input side, versus 16 

## necessarily the output side, which I think is what 17 

## you're interested in, in terms of what it would do to 18 

## your grid. 19 

## MR. FERSTROM: Well actually -- 20 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I understand they're 21 

## interrelated but -- 22 

## MR. FERSTROM: Yeah, but when you use theCommercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## term "output," we're interested in measuring the 2 

## input, and you're interested in specifying the 3 

## quality of what goes in, so that measurement can be 4 

## accurate. 5 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Great. So to Gary's 6 

## point, and this is I'm going to turn it to you guys, 7 

## how do you feel about measuring power factor? 8 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 9 

## MR. HUBER: We do it. 10 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Go ahead and answer. 11 

## MR. HUBER: Yeah, we'd do it. We do 12 

## measure power factor. 13 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: How do you feel about 14 

## reporting it? 15 

## MALE PARTICIPANT: With equipment we don't 16 

## have? 17 

## MR. HUBER: It's not necessarily equipment 18 

## that we have, all of us have, but we certainly could 19 

## -- we certainly probably could do that. But I 20 

## guess the solution is, Gary, that the power companies 21 

## give us good power. 22 

## (Laughter.)Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MR. HUBER: Then we don't have a problem. 2 

## Well, I want to make this point right quick, and then 3 

## I'm going to be quiet. I think, I think you need to 4 

## understand. What we're saying is if we're using less 5 

## quality power and we're reporting those measurements, 6 

## those will be less than what you will get if you have 7 

## good power in the field. You will perform better. 8 

## So I mean that's what you've really got to 9 

## be concerned about. Am I going to be getting 10 

## something better or something worse? You'd be 11 

## getting something better if you got good power. 12 

## MR. FERSTROM: So Al, all you have to do 13 

## is move your plant to California. 14 

## MR. HUBER: Not a chance. 15 

## (Laughter.) 16 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. I'm going to 17 

## suggest we move on here. 18 

## MS. WIDDER: Yep, I think so. So that is 19 

## the end of the test procedure discussion. 20 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Maybe we should pause and 21 

## just applaud right now. 22 

## (Applause.)Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## MS. WIDDER: Great work everyone. 2 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Louis, please go ahead. 3 

## MR. STARR: So I just had a question about 4 

## the certification report. So in the NOPR it says are 5 

## all the fields that are on the certification report 6 

## going to show up in the database? We would like it, 7 

## how about that? 8 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Not necessarily. I think 9 

## that that is a slide, Dan and Alison can correct me 10 

## if I'm wrong, in the ECS or no? 11 

## MR. WEINTRAUB: No. 12 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: I think just the answer is 13 

## not, okay. 14 

## MR. STARR: Can we request certain items? 15 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: Sure, absolutely. 16 

## MR. FERNSTROM: Okay, and we're going 17 

## to go there during the power input at different test 18 

## points. 19 

## MR. STARR: Gary should be concerned about 20 

## this, the power input at different test points. 21 

## That's the one you'd like to see, right? 22 

## MR. FERSTROM: Yeah exactly, and you know,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## we talked about measuring power factor. We're 2 

## interested in true power factor, because when you get 3 

## into pump motor combinations that may have variable 4 

## speed drives, there are all sorts of power quality 5 

## implications that we'd like to know about. 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: So that was Louis Starr, 7 

## followed by Gary, and now we're going to make -- 8 

## Louis, one more, go ahead. 9 

## MR. STARR: So Louis with NEEA. So one of 10 

## the things, maybe Gary and someone else, we can work 11 

## on that. But there are in that database. So the 12 

## certification report will have all the information on 13 

## it. But when a piece of paper's in a filing cabinet, 14 

## it's hard to run your programs, unless you have 15 

## access to all that paper. 16 

## So there are certain items, and it doesn't 17 

## necessarily need to other things. But a few things 18 

## off the certification report that I think would need 19 

## to be in there, in order to run the utility programs. 20 

## So maybe Gary and I and whoever will get together and 21 

## suggest those items. 22 

## MS. ARMSTRONG: That would be great,Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

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## thanks. 2 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. So now we're going 3 

## to make the transition. We don't need a break do we? 4 

## Let's keep going shall we? Rob. 5 

## (Off mic comments.) 6 

## CHAIR BROOKMAN: Good, so and just to be 7 

## clear, we've already made arrangements. There will 8 

## be a new transcript for the energy conservation 9 

## standard, which I'm about to queue and get going, 10 

## unless we have our break from -- you need a break? 11 

## Okay. We need five minutes, five minutes. Everybody 12 

## can make a run to the restroom, and then we're going 13 

## to resume right here in this room, okay? Five 14 

## minutes, energy conservation standard. 15 

## (Whereupon, at 2:05 p.m. the morning 16 

## meeting was adjourned.) 17 18 19 20 21 22Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 209 **A A.1**  185:7 **A.7** 121:14 **a.m** 1:11 4:2 **abbreviated** 108:3 **abbreviations** 65:5 **ability** 26:18 139:2 **able** 10:1 40:20 92:15 97:7 102:13 122:18 127:2 137:4 142:6 150:19 174:4 178:13 188:14,14 192:11 200:14 **absolutely** 8:22 31:13 206:15 **accept** 46:12 **acceptable** 136:12 190:14 **accepting** 16:19 **access** 40:5 56:19 207:15 **accessible** 9:19 **accomplish** 21:15 50:15 51:1 58:5 61:15 62:5 85:4 128:8 **accomplishing** 53:6 56:4 **account** 40:6 194:19 **accounts** 117:17 **accuracies** 139:1 **accuracy** 133:16 144:3 **accurate** 134:18 136:10 199:18 204:4 **achieve** 58:6 88:9 97:1 ,7 ,20 99:8 102:15 135:18 182:2,15 **achieved** 134:21 140:9 183:15 **acknowledge** 28:11 161:21 188:2 **acquisition** 122:17 124:7 202:9 **acronym** 49:18 **acronyms** 49:12 **Act** 196:20 **action** 20:9 **actively** 11:22 **actual** 15:19 20:1 124:11 125:13 153:3 **add** 28:19 32:17 39:4 40:1 58:10 128:11 137:6 155:15 177:13 199:8 ,10 203:7 **added** 23:19 **addition** 19:21 94:13 ,16 113:18 **additional** 11:7 23:22 24:4 25:16 36:11 46:10 48:1 57:15 58:8 59:7 76:21 77:17 106:3 110:7 ,10 129:2 131:9 134:21 136:11 137:6 138:3 141:1 145:10 146:5 162:1 176:21 177:13 178:9 179:1 181:11 193:3 195:12 197:8 **additives** 79:6 **address** 11:10 70:5 86:19 137:12 186:22 **addressed** 71:11 **adds** 38:6 117:15 **adequately** 36:2 **adjourned** 208:16 **adjust** 96:10 97:21 182:14,22 183:19 **adjusts** 96:22 **adopt** 134:5 **adopted** 189:10 195:3 **adoption** 174:15 187:21 **advance** 172:5 **advantage** 108:21 **adversely** 124:5 **advocate** 63:9 **affect** 25:2 33:1 71:17 141:11 **affiliation** 5:16 **affinity** 96:12 102:11 165:13 182:7 ,10 **afternoon** 4:7 91:13 91:17 ,18 121:10 **afterthought** 80:10 **agencies** 11:18 **agency** 34:9 40:9 **agenda** 7:22 8:2 **agree** 19:4,5 ,12 21:22 23:11 31:3 36:6 57:17 80:2

98:2 119:4,21 132:17 192:9 195:9 **agreed** 16:1 ,6 20:15 29:11 ,11 31:6 35:8 ,15 ,15 ,18 36:6 37:1 80:2 145:8 **agreeing** 36:7 **agreement** 16:1 ,8 36:13 ,13 87:16 **agrees** 16:8 **ahead** 10:10 26:10 37:20 40:12 75:19 82:19 87:20 116:17 123:3 127:12 136:16 139:16 189:18 204:10 206:2 207:8 **AHRI** 134:8 ,12 137:21 144:7 145:14 **air** 9:13 162:8 ,9 163:10 **Al** 6:15 10:13 ,14 12:5 19:10 29:9 32:10 35:1 ,1 36:5 37:13 62:7 ,15 123:22 168:1 171:19 189:20 199:8 204:8 205:12 **Al's** 192:17 **Albert** 2:7 **Alex** 2:20 **algorithm** 180:3 **aligned** 17:13 **aligns** 19:9 **Alison** 3:4 7:8 38:13 87:13 88:18 206:9 **allocated** 85:15 **allow** 88:2 128:1 139:10 182:1 **allowable** 85:10 123:2,12 127:22 128:12 **allowed** 28:17 140:14 141:8 150:11 **allowing** 10:17 33:6 183:4 **allows** 26:21 31:21 33:14 106:19 138:3 **aloud** 20:6

**alternative** 135:18 **alternatively** 34:4 **amend** 150:10 **America** 2:22 **amortize** 196:11 **analysis** 11:3 116:3 116:12 165:4 195:21 196:8 **analyzed** 116:22 **and/or** 158:9 201:18 **Anderson** 2:17 **Aniruddh** 2:12 42:13 **announced** 58:15 71:6 **annoying** 42:14 **annual** 196:12 **ANSI/HI** 57:1 63:7 65:3 **answer** 40:20 41:15 43:17 44:14 123:10 124:11 125:18 126:21 127:4 174:9 190:18 ,20 193:12 202:6 204:10 206:12 **answered** 166:2 **answers** 141:17 189:15 **anybody** 83:3 89:7 **anyone's** 9:6 15:8 33:13 172:2 **anyway** 39:13 42:15 137:19 **anyways** 97:12 **apologize** 53:3 **Appearances** 2:1 **Appendix** 121:7 **applaud** 205:21 **Applause** 205:22 **Appliance** 2:9 4:19 7:1 **applicability** 109:10 110:1 147:4 166:20 **applicable** 17:14 21:5 24:1 43:3 ,21 44:9 46:20 49:17 64:11 ,13 66:7 78:8 85:2 95:12 97:17 100:5 ,11 101:5 102:12 103:14 105:12 107:18 ,22 110:16 119:11 120:6

121:6 132:7 133:10 135:22 143:15 147:12 151:5 153:10,11 154:7 180:12 183:9 184:22 185:2,13 ,15 **application** 58:18 68:4 78:17 94:11 96:4 184:20 192:20 **applications** 67:22 68:2 69:8 80:18 **applied** 33:22 96:11 99:19 110:18 113:22 115:6 120:13 147:17 ,19 163:16 165:21 179:14 185:17 194:10 196:18 **applies** 28:20 29:3 46:21 129:16 178:7 184:14 193:12,12 **apply** 24:1 ,14 45:4 48:15 50:3 94:3 ,6 95:20 102:17 ,21 104:9 109:13 130:20 152:17 ,20 153:22 158:16 180:13 **applying** 95:2 96:5 102:2 103:20 106:22 116:2 158:19 159:17 194:18 **appreciate** 23:3 57:6 59:9 83:13 90:16 99:16 104:19 105:21 106:1 115:13 116:15 121:2 136:14 161:22 **appreciated** 12:12 **appreciates** 122:9 **appreciation** 12:9 **approach** 39:18 102:21 103:14,17 103:20 104:10 110:6,16 112:2,16 112:21 115:5 117:11 ,14 143:17 178:6 179:7 183:8 186:3 **approaches** 179:19Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 210 179:20 180:11 ,13 180:14 **appropriate** 20:21 22:12 56:8 73:18 99:6 104:20 106:18 107:3 143:17 183:20,21 202:2 **April** 1:12 4:8 16:18 **architecture** 109:22 **area** 187:14 198:18 **areas** 13:2,4 167:11 **Armstrong** 2:5 ,11 4:14,15 ,16 6:21 7:6,6 10:8 ,9 12:19 12:20 19:4,20 26:8 ,11 ,12,15 28:3 29:15 ,17 30:2,5 ,8,13 ,19,21 31:16 32:16,19 39:5 41:1 ,14 43:17 44:13 63:19 65:21 66:12,15 67:6 68:20 71:1 92:6,11 118:20 119:4 123:5 ,14 124:8 ,18 ,21 125:4 125:9 126:2,6,9 126:14,20 131:12 141:5 142:19 155:18 167:1 ,13 168:5 ,13 ,18 169:2 169:11 173:21 187:11 ,14 190:17 191:13 192:3 ,15 193:10 200:17 201:3 ,10,13 202:10,17 203:10 203:20 204:5 ,13 206:8 ,12,15 207:22 **arrangements** 208:7 **arrow** 181:15 **arrows** 180:19 **artificially** 38:4 **Ashley** 2:5 4:14,16 7:6 10:8 12:9,18 17:5 ,17 26:11 36:2 39:3 41:2,11 46:16,18 63:19 68:20 72:12 124:8 128:18 155:14 171:15 172:13 173:21 202:6 **Ashley's** 40:1 47:13 **aside** 87:17

**asking** 30:2 41:2 64:20 152:18 171:15 ,17 190:6,7 190:20 192:8 198:8 200:8 **asks** 44:20 **aspects** 14:21 50:14 93:7 110:20 **ASRAC** 10:17 172:15 **assembly** 60:22 **assertion** 34:14 125:13 **assertive** 127:4 **assign** 111:7 **assist** 11:19 **associated** 49:20 177:21 179:8 188:19 196:1 ,9 197:6 **assume** 108:20 150:3 153:22 **assumed** 104:1 106:13 ,16 107:2 109:3 111:3 ,6 112:3 115:2 154:13 161:9 163:14 197:7 **assumes** 102:8 111:16 114:22 115:1 179:8 **assuming** 113:20 202:1 **assumption** 98:11 113:13 ,22 147:20 158:4 190:9 **assumptions** 100:17 107:4 111:9,13 112:12 179:22 180:2 197:8 **ATR** 3:6 **attached** 68:15 69:5 105:5 **attachment** 53:11 55:3 73:15 **attendee** 92:12 **attention** 70:7 **attributes** 32:22 43:18 **authority** 13:16 41:22 **authorized** 17:18 **authorizes** 14:1 **Automation** 2:8 **availability** 167:21 **available** 29:6 83:5 91:11 133:20 137:1 161:22 198:13 **Avenue** 1:8 **average** 108:4,6,14 108:15 112:15 155:2 194:4 **aware** 64:8 199:16 **Awareness** 2:9 7:2 **awful** 80:12 **awfully** 8:21 **axial** 77:16 162:16 **axial/mixed** 76:16 76:19 77:4,9 **axis** 51:3 52:15 ,17 54:22 55:8 73:12 **B B**  67:9 106:9 113:11 121:7 149:3 154:3 **B.1** 185:8 **B.2** 185:6 **back** 18:16 23:4 36:3 58:17 67:3 67:18 84:4 88:19 89:5 91:1 107:14 130:18 137:13 138:6 157:2 169:14,17 170:7 171:7 172:12 175:18 182:22 183:3 184:8 185:20 189:18 190:5 ,19 191:10 198:8 202:13 **background** 13:15 176:15 **badge** 90:19 **bands** 158:17 ,20 159:4,17 **Barbour** 2:18 6:11 6:11 **bare** 20:10 21:9,10 22:1 23:9 46:22 47:6,10 52:3 ,5 ,16 52:17 53:10 89:13 89:17 94:7 ,7 ,8,15 94:19 95:3 ,6,8,9 95:12,16 99:22 100:2,15 ,16,19 101:3 ,4 102:1 103:14,21 105:22 106:19 108:1 ,2 111:2,5 ,13 112:18 112:19,22 113:17 113:19 114:1

115:6 117:16 119:11 120:5 ,7 ,11 131:15 132:2 136:1 148:21 ,22 149:12,20 151:5 151:10,13 158:7 176:14 177:11 ,18 177:19,20 178:2 185:1 **bars** 184:4 **base** 42:4 **based** 38:1 39:11 41:4,20 42:16 46:1 47:9 57:12 74:9 77:10 78:4 84:5 87:5 99:9 100:4 105:11 106:4 110:16 113:13 114:16 115:9 119:14 122:2 129:13 132:4 138:19 139:17 149:4 152:4,6 164:18 165:1 176:13 ,22 177:4,15 178:17 181:5 ,21 182:7 ,19 183:1 ,7 ,13 ,20 184:16,21 192:9 194:11 196:11 ,15 199:18 201:16 **bases** 57:19 138:18 **basic** 24:12,18 25:5 25:7 ,9,19 26:1 ,16 26:20 27:7 ,16 28:18 29:1 ,7 31:4 38:16 45:5 ,9,11 45:14,20,21 46:1 46:18 47:4,12,20 47:21 84:4,5 ,7 130:2 180:22 187:10 194:6 197:3 **basically** 19:8 22:21 38:15 ,20 45:13 69:4,22 82:22 84:4 88:8 100:9 102:8 109:12,20 131:18 144:22 153:19 154:14 158:20 182:13 185:13 190:21 192:21 194:18 195:22 **basis** 16:2 36:15 42:2 50:21 177:5

**basket** 54:2 57:20 58:2,19,20,21 67:2,20,21 68:9 68:18 74:3 ,12 **baskets** 58:1 **bearings** 162:15 **beginning** 12:21 17:6 35:18 167:16 187:21 **behalf** 10:15 12:8 137:11 **belief** 77:7 **believe** 11:6 16:4,5 16:10 51:22 57:22 131:4 171:20 **believed** 121:5 **believes** 5:6 15:16 34:12 177:9 **Beloit** 2:22 98:5 137:11 145:13 **belt** 85:20 **benefit** 139:9 175:11 **benefitting** 35:6 **BEP** 84:11 109:5 ,7 112:18 113:2,14 113:20 119:15 130:12,15 144:14 144:17 ,21 145:1 150:1 ,4 151:6 152:4 164:6 176:7 176:12,13 ,22 177:3 ,10,15 178:17 181:5 ,21 182:12 184:15 **Berkeley** 3:4 7:9 **best** 38:10 62:21 84:1 ,7 ,9 90:3 97:3 140:4 157:16,16 **better** 23:8 35:4,5 36:8 38:5 ,9 56:22 99:2 142:17 ,17 205:7 ,10,11 **big** 18:3 76:17 78:1 170:3 200:20 202:19 **biggest** 32:13 72:16 124:1 201:11 202:15 **bin** 159:5 **bins** 158:21 159:5 159:13 **bit** 27:19 37:18 45:1 46:16 63:20 65:2 72:19 93:1 ,5Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 211 94:22 99:6 107:12 110:14 134:9 145:17 146:16 157:6,22 176:15 186:9 187:9 191:17 196:3 199:20 203:11 **bits** 19:16 20:1 **blew** 182:3 **blue** 18:2,3 20:17 46:10 48:9 78:1 78:11 94:19 95:10 114:9,18 120:4 159:19 182:19 183:15 193:6 **board** 138:2 **Bob** 6:11 **body** 121:16 **Boesenberg** 2:20 **bold** 129:21 131:9 **bolded** 134:6 **borrows** 137:22 **Boteler** 2:21 6:6,6 36:20,21 ,21 37:8 103:5 ,6 104:12 147:22 148:2,12 148:16 160:9 163:7 ,8 **bottom** 25:10 108:19 157:13 164:22 **bound** 129:8 182:21 **bounds** 133:3 **bowl** 55:10 84:14 89:3 ,8,10,13 ,14 89:17 ,19,20,21 90:7 193:7 **bowls** 55:18 **box** 46:9 76:2 **boxes** 13:1 ,5 ,11 95:1 110:11 **break** 8:9 60:14,16 90:13 ,14,18 91:3 93:4 146:10 168:20 169:2,17 208:3 ,10,10 **Brenda** 91:5 ,7 ,9,16 91:19 92:1 ,20 **Brent** 2:11 6:21 71:21 ,22 157:7 192:16 **bridge** 66:1 **brief** 7:22 8:3 ,4 165:5 **briefly** 74:6 165:9 180:15 **bright** 193:6

**bring** 12:15 60:19 82:5 **bringing** 94:10 **broad** 18:7 23:20 43:20 67:10 96:1 **broke** 171:14 172:13 **Brookman** 2:3 4:3 4:11 5:12 6:3 ,9 7:7 ,15 ,19 10:11 12:5 ,13 ,17 17:3 19:7 ,13 ,16,21 23:2 24:4,7 ,9 26:11 27:20 29:9 31:7 ,11 32:4 34:19,21 36:20 37:12,20 39:3 40:10 41:8 42:6 42:12 44:18 46:8 46:13 48:3 ,6 51:7 51:14 56:10 58:7 59:4,6 60:18 61:6 61:10 62:7 63:1 ,3 65:14 67:15 68:19 70:10,21 71:21 72:7 ,17 74:22 75:6 76:1 ,8 80:5 ,8 80:21 81:7 82:10 83:6 85:12 86:11 86:17 87:20 88:5 88:22 90:1 ,13 ,15 91:4 92:4,9,16 93:18 98:4 103:2 103:5 104:11 ,21 107:8 109:14 110:2,7 114:11 115:15 116:16 117:6 119:8 ,19 120:1 122:12 123:22 125:8 126:15 127:10,16 128:16 132:16 133:6,8 135:1 ,17 136:15 137:9 139:15 142:9,22 143:7 145:11 146:5 ,8 147:22 150:6,15 152:3 ,8 152:11 ,21 153:9 153:15 ,17 154:16 154:20 155:12,17 156:16,19,22 157:7 ,17 159:21 160:8 162:3 163:6 163:12 167:10 168:7 169:6,15 ,22

171:3 ,9,14 173:11 173:20 175:16 176:1 ,4 177:7 178:20,22 184:12 186:4,7 ,11 187:4 191:14 192:6,16 193:2 195:12,16 197:11 199:7 200:16 203:5 ,9 204:8 ,10 205:16 205:20 206:2 207:6 208:2,6 **brought** 73:3 167:15 180:16 **bucket** 64:5 ,5 **build** 60:6 198:1 **building** 1:7 4:9 90:20 **built** 198:8 **bullet** 62:5 **bullets** 60:20,21 **burden** 8:14 27:4,9 32:18 126:4 146:17 177:13 178:12 196:1 ,9,18 197:5 **burden-reducing** 177:1 **burdens** 197:15 **business** 91:7 ,9,19 92:20 **buy** 151:12 **buying** 151:13 **C C**  4:1 153:8 **C.1** 185:8 **C.2** 185:6 **C838** 137:15 ,20 138:17 **CA** 3:5 **cabinet** 207:13 **cafeteria** 170:3 **calculate** 114:21 116:6 182:11 **calculated** 101:10 108:10 113:3 115:8 117:18 119:14 157:15 182:18 183:13 **calculated-based** 100:5 **calculating** 158:9 163:22 165:16 181:6 **calculation** 8:13

101:5 102:3 ,7 103:8 ,13 107:5 110:15 ,20 111:4 111:12 114:2 117:16 146:15 147:20 158:8 161:9 163:17 166:19 186:1 ,2 197:6 **calculation-based** 94:21 100:14 101:1 102:13 103:20 111:1 112:2,21 117:13 136:2 147:11 153:22 178:6 179:7 ,20 180:11 185:7 ,9 **calculations** 11:16 100:17 130:21 ,22 165:10,21 168:11 177:20 **calculator** 11:15 192:10 **calculators** 11:21 **California** 5:18 ,19 5:21 12:8 33:17 41:11 57:17 70:19 143:4 202:19 205:13 **call** 26:19 141:9 142:20 **capability** 135:3 142:16 **capable** 144:1 **capacity** 9:6 36:10 40:2 172:3 **capture** 72:10 117:22 **captured** 117:16 **captures** 171:10 **card** 91:7 ,9,15 92:20 **cards** 91:19 **careful** 163:4 200:12 **carefully** 41:14 82:15 **carry** 115:20 173:18 **case** 15:8 24:20 54:20 61:17 69:1 86:20 100:1 102:22 104:4 106:2,13 ,16,17 108:18 109:4

113:6,7 116:4 117:13 127:7 130:15 ,17 151:5 176:12,14 178:7 178:10 183:14,16 184:1 185:15 194:21 **cases** 111:3 119:18 134:14 158:15 178:9 180:12 186:2 **casing** 25:14 55:7 **catch** 167:6 **categories** 48:12,19 49:2 54:6 66:11 75:5 76:11 78:18 79:22 149:6,6 **category** 52:12 65:10 98:19 148:7 **caucus** 127:10 **cause** 22:21 197:16 **caution** 200:11 **caveat** 130:13 168:10 **CEC** 70:19 **cell** 9:15 **Celsius** 79:8 84:14 **certain** 10:5 39:7 67:10 167:4 206:14 207:16 **certainly** 72:3 83:2 104:19 138:10 171:11 177:22 198:12,20 199:15 201:8 204:18 ,19 **certification** 29:12 40:14 81:19 121:8 191:22 206:4,5 207:12,18 **certified** 26:22 39:10 101:12,18 111:19 128:20 129:6 194:2,9,20 194:22 197:4 **certify** 14:8 30:10 33:14 38:16 45:22 **CFR** 82:2 148:9,12 154:3 ,15 156:14 158:18 159:18 **Chaffee** 2:19 **CHAIR** 4:3 5:12 6:3 ,9 7:7 ,15 ,19 10:11 12:5 ,13 ,17 17:3 19:7 ,13 ,16 19:21 23:2 24:4,7Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 212 24:9 26:11 27:20 29:9 31:7 ,11 32:4 34:19,21 36:20 37:12,20 39:3 40:10 41:8 42:6 42:12 44:18 46:8 46:13 48:3 ,6 51:7 51:14 56:10 58:7 59:4,6 60:18 61:6 61:10 62:7 63:1 ,3 65:14 67:15 68:19 70:10,21 71:21 72:7 ,17 74:22 75:6 76:1 ,8 80:5 ,8 80:21 81:7 82:10 83:6 85:12 86:11 86:17 87:20 88:5 88:22 90:1 ,13 ,15 91:4 92:4,9,16 93:18 98:4 103:2 103:5 104:11 ,21 107:8 109:14 110:2,7 114:11 115:15 116:16 117:6 119:8 ,19 120:1 122:12 123:22 125:8 126:15 127:10,16 128:16 132:16 133:6,8 135:1 ,17 136:15 137:9 139:15 142:9,22 143:7 145:11 146:5 ,8 147:22 150:6,15 152:3 ,8 152:11 ,21 153:9 153:15 ,17 154:16 154:20 155:12,17 156:16,19,22 157:7 ,17 159:21 160:8 162:3 163:6 163:12 167:10 168:7 169:6,15 ,22 171:3 ,9,14 173:11 173:20 175:16 176:1 ,4 177:7 178:20,22 184:12 186:4,7 ,11 187:4 191:14 192:6,16 193:2 195:12,16 197:11 199:7 200:16 203:5 ,9 204:8 ,10 205:16 205:20 206:2 207:6 208:2,6 **chairman** 6:7 **Challenge** 164:9

**challenging** 6:2 **chamber** 89:13 ,17 89:20,21 **chance** 51:9 167:5 168:21 205:14 **change** 10:22 28:2 90:3 111:22 128:4 128:5 156:14 **changed** 28:6 199:15 **changes** 25:9 37:18 40:22 56:7 67:7 96:19 164:2,4 174:6 **changing** 118:13 155:22 **characteristic** 25:22 52:22 53:17 58:5 59:10 68:13 ,17 73:18 74:13 **characteristics** 25:2 28:2,5 44:3 ,8 47:2 47:8 52:8 54:5 57:7 ,13 ,21 61:14 74:9 77:3 ,14 82:3 83:15 111:14 114:16 129:15 133:10,14 **characterize** 18:5 52:19 **choice** 33:7 **choose** 99:1 **chose** 31:21 40:3 41:14 **circle** 18:2,3 48:9 49:10 78:1 ,1 ,11 78:20 89:15 **circular** 89:12,16 **circulate** 74:2,7 **circulator** 55:4 57:9 57:18 60:1 ,5 ,7 ,21 62:15 73:3 ,9,11 **circulators** 49:7 50:8 ,17 52:12,21 53:15 ,18 ,20 56:22 59:10,11 60:2 72:21 **CL** 31:5 **clarification** 11:12 85:7 90:3 92:3 98:6,11 116:19 118:22 119:9 143:13 148:18 157:18 166:10 **clarification-type** 64:18

**clarifications** 11:8 15:15 16:9 143:10 **clarified** 187:18 **clarify** 23:19 50:1 65:17 82:13 118:7 118:17 141:6 155:10 162:5 201:14 **clarifying** 71:2 86:1 117:3 **clarity** 51:2 54:18 **class** 24:20 52:20 56:6 65:10 75:3 108:7 ,17 115:9 **classes** 25:16,17 43:10 49:11 ,16,21 50:1 ,4 51:6,18 52:14 54:7 78:3 83:18 107:19 **classifications** 60:8 **classify** 98:16 **clause** 131:10 **clean** 68:2,4 78:9,10 78:11 ,13 ,14,20,21 79:11 ,11 ,12,13 ,14 79:17 ,20,21 80:16 80:17 81:17 83:18 121:17 138:12 **clear** 10:19 67:11 69:6 71:4,8,18 74:13 80:17 89:4 141:21 145:19 161:4,20 208:7 **clearly** 11:2 53:18 197:19 202:7 ,14 **close** 6:4 30:3 171:6 190:18 **close-** 53:20 **close-coupled** 49:14 50:9,18 52:11 53:8 54:9 56:17 60:6 65:8 74:14 **closed** 39:14 **closing** 39:12 **code** 167:15 196:15 **codes** 110:19 **codified** 158:22 **coefficients** 164:12 164:18 **coffee** 90:20 **cold** 153:7 **collect** 123:3 ,18 ,19 **collected** 161:16,21 **collecting** 128:5 **collection** 11:11 122:1 ,10,16 124:3 128:1 ,2 **color** 50:11 ,13 51:10 110:19 114:7 **colored** 53:5 **coloring** 154:11 **colors** 56:12 **column** 99:21 ,21 109:9 132:3 159:18 **columns** 111:1 159:20 **combination** 47:12 105:4 **combinations** 47:3 207:3 **combine** 180:3 **combined** 112:9 179:5 180:17 **come** 5:4 9:4 36:9 51:13 63:12 82:17 123:10 125:18 126:13 137:13 143:5 165:18 190:22 202:13 **comeback** 156:21 **comes** 45:16 58:17 62:10,15 148:8 190:15 **comfortable** 172:4 **coming** 15:15 17:1 46:6 131:8 148:5 189:2,16 **comment** 9:7 13:3 18:14,20,22 19:11 21:20 22:9,12 24:2 36:1 40:13 46:9,9 47:16 51:18 56:2,3 57:15 63:4,5 67:1 67:18 72:8 74:18 75:12 77:6,18 79:19 80:14 82:16 85:14 87:9 92:8 97:15 98:1 ,19 99:5 109:15 ,16,22 110:4,11 116:15 118:14,15 119:11 132:15 133:4 134:19 143:3 ,11 145:9 146:13 149:8 154:22 157:19 165:8 166:15 167:21 168:9,10 169:1 171:8 ,20 172:3 ,12

173:7 175:20 176:6 177:22 179:4 181:11 ,12 184:11 ,14 185:16 190:19 192:18 195:4 203:8 **commentary** 83:2 **commented** 60:20 **comments** 8:19 9:3 9:5 10:5 ,13 12:14 13:7 ,10,13 16:8 16:19 18:18 ,20 19:18 22:9,13 24:4 32:5 40:11 46:11 48:1 ,3 56:9 56:14 58:8 59:7 66:20 72:19 75:16 76:4 82:21 83:7 83:12 90:7 ,12,17 93:6,9,15 107:11 110:8 ,10 114:5 ,11 121:3 122:9 127:11 131:8 146:6,20 155:16 163:14 165:5 ,6 166:13 ,17 169:5 169:21 171:13 175:12 177:6 179:1 186:6,10 187:3 ,5 192:21 193:4 195:13 197:7 ,21 199:2 208:5 **commerce** 14:7 21:3 43:15 45:9,14 **commercial** 1:2 4:22 10:20 13:22 24:15 41:21 53:16 58:18 ,19 69:15 ,17 70:2,8,8 194:10 **commission** 40:7 **commitment** 12:4 **committed** 168:14 **Committee** 6:8 **common** 33:4 174:22 **commonly** 96:11 149:7 **companies** 122:17 135:14,15 ,15 204:20 **Company** 2:12,17 5:20,20,21 **compare** 174:11 **competing** 160:11Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 213 **compiling** 127:11 **complete** 9:12 91:20 **completely** 27:8 66:2 138:1 152:14 183:18 **compliance** 14:8 ,9 141:16 189:5 ,9 191:7 ,19 192:2 194:22 195:2 **compliant** 108:6,16 111:6,21 113:7 ,10 114:13 ,15 115:1 ,2 115:8 119:13 **comply** 62:12 73:9 200:15 **complying** 196:1 **component** 24:13 182:9 **components** 21:14 23:8 **comprehensive** 48:20 159:7 **comprise** 23:8 25:21 **concept** 21:11 26:7 46:21 175:3 ,5 187:10 194:7 **concepts** 79:15 **conceptual** 8:21 **concern** 72:16 124:1 189:21 **concerned** 75:15 96:6 168:16 205:9 206:19 **concerns** 33:9 39:21 197:14 199:5 201:6 202:3 **concise** 9:13 79:15 **conclude** 10:7 **condensate** 43:1 ,7 **condition** 135:4 157:2 **conditioned** 134:14 142:13 **conditioning** 140:2 140:13 202:7 ,15 203:15 **conduct** 134:15 165:10 196:6,10 **conducted** 158:11 195:21 **conducting** 89:7 **conductive** 69:20 **confidence** 34:10,13 40:9 194:16 **confident** 127:17 **configuration** 47:18 94:7 105:19 107:20 110:17 147:2 153:20 178:17 184:21 185:3 **configurations** 21:7 32:22 90:11 94:2 94:12,17 99:18 120:15 129:13 177:16 185:14,18 **confirm** 123:8 **confirmation** 19:9 19:17 20:2 46:14 **confirmed** 171:4 **conflict** 86:20 **conflicts** 36:12 **confusion** 35:3 37:13 ,22 38:7 **conjunction** 174:12 **connected** 53:14 73:15 127:17 **consensus** 5:5 20:1 **conservation** 4:7 11:1 ,5 ,9 14:9 17:9 17:12,16,19 18:9 19:2 94:4 101:15 106:10 121:10 158:3 180:6 195:2 208:8 ,14 **conservative** 164:17 **conservatively** 142:20 **consider** 18:6 57:4 59:21 65:19 88:15 90:6 93:9 106:22 116:2 141:1 ,19 166:17 177:21 **consideration** 8:18 9:9 38:14 179:12 **considerations** 39:17 **considered** 23:18 50:5 69:19 70:5 76:20 78:18 83:16 94:19 95:2,12 97:17 98:8 **considering** 49:5 54:8 94:13 177:2 179:14 **consistency** 54:18 133:16 134:3 ,7 **consistent** 20:18 24:15 39:18 51:22 76:14 79:16 82:8 82:10 85:9 89:1 108:11 114:8 115:7 ,11 ,20

120:20 128:20 130:3 131:19 132:9,19 144:6 149:9,14 160:12 160:12,22 **consistently** 18:4 89:6 102:16 **consists** 55:10,20 **constant** 107:21 109:3 ,4 114:14 178:13 **constitutes** 68:16 **constraints** 162:15 **construct** 41:9 **constructing** 196:10 **consultation** 155:13 186:8 **Consulting** 3:2,3 **consume** 21:14 **consumption** 25:3 ,3 25:6 26:4 97:8 ,14 98:15 99:15 **consumptive** 47:12 **contact** 69:21 **content** 7:21 8:12 8:17 9:1 ,8 12:18 15:15 16:14 17:7 79:1 ,3 ,4 83:9 93:21 103:2 143:1 171:16 172:19 **context** 172:1 **continue** 43:13 116:11 188:14 190:21 **continues** 37:18 **continuing** 149:12 **continuous** 95:10 95:15 ,18 ,21 96:15 96:16 97:19 99:1 101:20 102:4,6 108:1 133:11 143:16,20 176:9 183:6,10 **continuously** 51:20 **contrary** 29:10 65:6 **contributed** 12:10 **control** 23:10,16,18 23:19,21 ,22 94:14 95:13 ,19 96:1 ,11 96:22 97:19 98:12 99:14 100:10,20 102:6,11 108:20 112:5 115:1 117:12,12,21 133:14 134:2 137:14 143:20

173:10 175:11 176:9,18 179:6,8 179:9 180:2 181:14,16 183:8 185:19 **controlled** 143:13 **controlling** 200:3 **controls** 20:12 21:11 22:2 94:9 95:9,10,12,15 ,16 95:22 96:2,7 ,8,9 96:15 ,15 ,16,21 97:13 ,16 98:7 ,8 98:17 99:8 100:3 101:20,22 102:2,5 102:14 108:1 111:14 112:1 ,9 117:15 ,22 119:16 132:1 133:12,13 139:20 143:16 147:6 149:1 174:7 180:8 183:6,10 185:5 188:9 **controversial** 143:12 **conventional** 136:21 **conversation** 156:11 173:5 **conversations** 9:16 141:2 173:2 201:20 **conversely** 69:8 **cooperation** 62:20 **copy** 91:10 **cords** 5:22 **core** 162:20 **Corporation** 2:21 6:7 **correct** 19:10 28:3 28:20 34:11 ,13 61:9 86:8 116:12 168:14 184:18 190:16 206:9 **corrected** 118:16 129:9 132:14 **correcting** 115:17 **correction** 118:11 118:15 ,22 135:6,7 140:2 148:3 168:11 **corrections** 115:17 140:17 165:10 **correctly** 39:1 41:13 44:15 **correspond** 13:4

50:19 183:12 **corresponding** 18:15 **corresponds** 50:13 **cost** 135:12 197:22 198:2 199:15 200:2,4 **Council** 7:4 **count** 101:21 **counterparts** 191:10 **couple** 12:21 94:1 145:7 193:19 **coupled** 53:21 **course** 157:8 **cover** 21:9 121:1 169:22 **coverage** 44:12 77:21 **covered** 11:1 14:3 17:20,22 21:1 24:19 40:11 42:18 42:18 43:8 ,14 44:6,15 46:16 48:10 50:10 52:13 58:22 64:21 69:9 72:15 78:16 90:15 95:2 101:8 ,15 102:4 103:10 106:10 147:8 148:8 149:10 163:20 169:16 180:6,7 197:13 **CP1** 57:11 73:21 **CP2** 57:11 73:21 **CP3** 57:11 73:21 **create** 37:12 194:15 **created** 37:13 **creating** 66:14 185:11 **credibility** 42:9 **creditable** 42:3 **criteria** 128:11 150:3 **CSA** 137:15 ,20 143:6 144:7 **cubic** 79:2,3 80:11 164:12 **current** 144:1 153:12 **currently** 14:12 42:17 63:11 158:2 196:6 **curve** 30:18 37:12 37:18 96:20,20Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 214 97:6 102:9,9,12 102:17 ,18 111:7 111:10,16 112:4,8 114:15 ,22 138:5 145:4 164:11 182:3 ,6,13 ,19,22 183:1 ,5 ,14,18 ,22 184:1 ,7 ,8,13 **curves** 29:5 189:22 190:7 **customer** 30:15 ,16 35:6,11 44:20 **customers** 32:11 37:3 ,11 38:12 192:20 **cut** 77:8 126:10 167:20 **Cymbalsky** 2:4 7:5 7:5 **D D**  4:1 **D.C** 4:10 **dampening** 128:2 **Dan** 98:4,5 137:9,10 145:11 ,12 168:21 172:5 ,6 179:10 206:9 **Dan's** 99:12 179:4 **Danfoss** 2:10 6:10 **Daniel** 2:22 3:2 7:10 **darker** 78:10 **data** 11:3 ,11 16:20 87:5 121:11 ,22 122:14,17 123:4,8 123:11 ,12,15 ,18 123:18 ,19 124:3 ,6 125:6,17 126:11 127:3 ,22 128:2,5 128:20 129:9 137:5 140:21 ,22 144:21 158:12 160:5 161:16,20 162:1 164:7 ,8,9 164:14,16,19 165:11 ,12,13 ,14 166:2,3 ,3 ,6,7 ,8 174:10,21 175:2 192:8 ,11 195:5 197:8 198:5 202:9 **database** 121:8 158:13 164:8 191:22 206:6 207:11 **date** 14:9 167:14 189:5 ,9 191:7 ,19 192:2 195:2

**dated** 10:21 **dates** 13:11 188:4 **day** 64:9 71:6 156:12 189:4,21 **days** 93:11 187:21 190:4 **DB** 80:15 **DC** 1:9 **deal** 137:4 197:14 **dealing** 122:15 **dealt** 202:1 **December** 173:17 **decide** 38:15 39:20 41:16 189:6 **decided** 67:9 86:13 86:18 118:21 **decimal** 115:21 **decimals** 116:8 **deck** 175:22 **dedicated** 73:3 **dedicated-purpose** 49:6 50:20 54:5 54:10 57:21 71:4 72:13 ,21 74:1 ,15 **deep** 8:21 66:16 **default** 100:17 103:22 104:5 ,9 106:12 107:3 147:13 ,15 149:12 149:15 ,17 154:2 158:4,5 163:14,18 **Defense** 7:4 **define** 17:20 23:7 25:15 48:13 52:10 56:21 66:7 69:12 95:11 ,21 121:17 **defined** 25:10 27:22 44:8 45:20 48:11 49:13 52:9,19 53:1 59:3 61:14 79:11 ,13 81:10 89:20 97:12,19 122:21 174:19 178:15 179:9 **defines** 49:1 70:13 89:21 153:19 **defining** 17:22 26:20 46:7 56:6 57:21 58:4 66:3 68:13 ,16 78:2 **definite** 148:5 **definitely** 39:16 65:18 70:14 116:14 157:20 167:16 **definition** 18:7 20:5

20:13 21:8 ,8 23:6 23:16,18 ,19 24:12 24:12,14 25:5 ,9 25:19 29:8 43:2,9 43:20 45:3 ,3 ,5 46:1 ,9 47:19 48:17 50:8 ,14,17 52:1 54:10,13 ,15 54:16 56:22 57:19 58:12 61:7 ,9 62:5 65:4 66:3 67:11 67:12 71:7 ,10,17 72:11 ,12 74:5 78:14 79:14,17 ,19 79:21 80:2 81:17 84:5 87:22 89:3 96:1 ,16 97:18 99:13 126:17 130:2 175:10 **definitional** 17:14 **definitions** 14:21 18:12 22:1 23:12 24:1 ,3 ,16 42:16 43:12,20 44:6,7 49:4,15 ,22 50:12 51:1 ,2,5 ,17 53:4 54:1 ,4 56:5 ,14 57:5 ,11 58:8 63:17 ,17 ,22 64:3 64:18 67:8 72:21 73:4 74:19 75:4 77:2,12,17 81:2 81:11 82:6,11 ,15 82:22 97:13 ,15 **degree** 176:11 **degrees** 79:8 84:13 153:8 **Delaney** 2:22 98:5 ,5 137:10,10 145:12 145:12 152:14 172:6,6,11 173:13 174:14 **delta** 37:16,19 **demands** 37:9 **demonstrate** 74:8 140:18 **demonstrating** 140:11 **denominator** 38:1 38:17 106:21 114:12 **Department** 1:1 ,6 2:1 4:9,16,18 5:6 5:6 9:2,18 10:6,16 11:14,20 14:8 33:5 ,6 56:10 57:2

82:17 83:8 91:10 104:1 200:12 **Department's** 41:22 103:9 **dependent** 185:18 **depending** 33:7 94:14 107:19 120:12 **depends** 43:18 ,18 68:7 **depiction** 164:13 **depth** 139:21 **derive** 140:2 **derived** 137:20 **describe** 23:8 45:2 60:21 62:21 105:21 157:22 193:22 **described** 69:4 165:3 **describes** 48:10 82:3 124:19,21 **describing** 34:22 52:8 165:4 **description** 67:4 **design** 50:21 52:8 52:21 53:17 54:4 57:6,12 59:10 68:8 74:9 82:3 83:15 84:13 97:6 105:8 107:13 113:11 ,11 ,11 131:16 149:3 ,3 ,4 154:3 ,4 155:3 **designed** 20:7 ,22 21:9 53:12,12 55:13 ,17 73:16 74:2,7 78:22 79:13 81:15 83:18 84:16,17 ,19 88:8 106:6 108:13 153:1 ,5 **desirability** 33:19 **desire** 115:20 **detail** 47:22 75:14 81:5 ,11 104:3 ,17 108:9 109:9 111:9 114:7 118:2 120:22 127:9 129:22 130:11 165:3 166:18 167:19 175:9 184:10 **detailed** 9:3 ,4 22:9 22:12 32:5 50:12 63:16 83:12

171:16 192:20 **details** 9:4 81:10 100:8 ,21 112:11 145:22 195:19 197:6 **determination** 8:8 8:12 117:11 130:9 146:11 ,14 **determine** 57:8 64:11 89:8 100:18 104:14 113:17 114:19 120:8 122:5 144:12 145:4 149:17 153:20 161:9 176:7 177:9 181:3 181:21 194:1 ,9 196:9,20 **determined** 41:18 53:16 96:9 104:18 114:16 122:1 ,4 143:17 147:10 158:10,13 164:4 164:18 ,21 165:1 ,2 176:13 ,22 181:5 195:1 196:17 **determining** 110:14 117:8 120:5 146:22 163:15 176:19 180:16 181:6 194:20 195:7 **develop** 127:14 **developed** 49:22 56:22 112:7 145:15 164:11 **development** 4:17 137:19 138:14 172:16 173:1 **devices** 144:10 **diagram** 109:10 **diagrams** 185:11 **diameter** 28:15 29:13 ,14,19 30:4 30:6,11 ,12 31:5 32:15 33:20 35:4 35:9,12,16 36:17 40:16,17 45:7 ,8 45:10 46:4,7 83:19 84:2,10,12 84:14 89:3 ,8,10 90:4,7 **diced** 77:22 **dictating** 33:6 **Diego** 5:20Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 215 **differ** 70:3 **difference** 22:16 25:6 108:22 125:2 181:20 203:11 **differences** 60:9,14 **different** 13:11 15:14 25:22 26:5 27:3 ,14,16 28:9 28:10,10,18 29:1 29:4 38:16,16 40:19 41:7 ,19 45:18 47:1 ,6 48:13 68:11 77:16 94:2,12,13 99:7 ,8 107:18 110:1 151:11 160:14 163:9 165:17 176:12 177:3 ,15 177:16 182:9 185:17 188:9 191:1 206:17 ,20 **differentiate** 44:20 53:19 54:6 69:16 74:9 98:20 139:11 **differentiated** 96:14 154:5 **differentiating** 48:13 51:10 56:12 74:13 **differentiation** 31:22 99:9 **differentiator** 62:18 **differing** 28:16 **difficult** 59:15 74:8 122:15 **difficulties** 138:8 **diffuser** 25:14 55:7 55:11 ,21 **digest** 186:14 **digit** 116:8 **digits** 115:19 116:9 116:13 **dimension** 89:11 **diminish** 9:6 172:2 **direct** 40:22 **direction** 52:4 63:10 70:19 **directions** 184:4 **directly** 6:4 8:6,13 175:14 **disadvantage** 157:11 ,13 **disagree** 22:2 **disagreeing** 80:11 **discharge** 52:17 53:13 73:14 **discharged** 52:6

55:1 ,9 **disclose** 30:14,16 **disclosures** 14:6 **discrete** 98:22 **discretion** 27:11 ,18 189:8 **discretionary** 32:20 32:21 39:12 **discuss** 43:11 ,13 51:4 60:4 72:12 73:2,19 76:21 77:11 ,13 79:21 81:5 93:6,8 94:2 99:6 100:7 ,21 104:2,16 111:8 121:7 136:18 166:18 168:3 ,17 **discussed** 13:18 18:12 20:5 ,13 21:12 35:17 43:4 47:13 ,22 54:4 71:15 73:17 74:5 74:11 ,16,20 76:11 76:14 77:5 ,20 78:6 83:21 84:21 89:2 93:17 94:5 95:3 ,22 101:10,21 102:7 ,10 107:12 107:16 108:12 109:1 ,8,18 110:22 113:16 114:6,7 120:22 121:9 127:21 130:2 132:8 144:19 145:7 149:16,21 150:1 163:19,21 166:19 167:18 173:5 179:21 182:5 187:9 **discusses** 75:4 81:19 187:8 **discussing** 18:10 46:18 47:16 59:1 113:8 179:18 180:15 187:9 **discussion** 23:3 31:9 39:6 58:12 59:14 80:6 82:11 90:11 146:17 155:20 157:4 167:8 ,12 191:17 196:3 198:20 205:19 **discussions** 15:9 64:2 79:9 149:5 172:12 201:5 **displacement** 48:18

76:16,18 77:7 **disregarding** 79:6 **dissolved** 20:9 22:5 22:6,7 ,17 79:3 80:12 **distinguish** 27:2 28:12,16 33:2 **distortion** 134:1 ,7 **distributed** 14:7 21:2 43:15 45:9 45:14 **dive** 8:21 66:16 112:11 **divided** 194:16 **docket** 15:8 ,12 92:13 ,14 165:4 **document** 14:16 18:17 64:1 89:21 199:14 **documented** 126:18 **DOE** 2:4,5 7:5 ,6 14:1 ,12 15:16 16:1 17:11 ,18 18:6 23:6,21 24:2 25:17 26:17 29:5 36:9,22 37:4,9 41:2,3 42:18 48:11 ,16 49:5 ,16 49:22 51:2 53:15 53:19 54:3 ,7 ,14 54:16 62:9 68:20 71:3 76:11 ,20 89:2,7 ,8 94:3 ,6,13 94:20 95:22 96:9 96:14 104:14 111:19 115:20 120:16 121:5 ,8,12 121:18 ,22 122:1 ,9 123:6 125:17 127:20 128:22 129:17 132:9 133:19 134:4,10 134:11 ,13 ,19 135:21 140:22 143:5 ,14 144:18 145:9 155:20 158:2,5 ,10,22 159:3 ,5 161:1 ,18 164:7 ,9,14,21 173:21 176:6,10 176:15 180:20 181:4 185:15 187:17 ,20 188:16 190:21 191:2,22 192:13 194:8 195:4,20 196:8 ,12

196:17 198:15 **DOE's** 18:8 23:9 24:13 28:21 41:8 45:3 ,5 50:14 55:12 56:3 78:14 81:16 101:15 106:10 107:17 109:12 113:10 120:13 ,19 121:6 121:15 135:19 136:13 143:21 144:8 149:7 154:9 180:6 **DOE-regulated** 193:9 **doing** 64:17 68:10 90:16 140:19 168:14 188:13 189:12 199:15 201:18 203:13 **dollars** 200:5 **door** 34:17 39:12,14 **double** 44:12 69:19 **doubt** 66:17 **Doug** 2:3 4:11 12:7 22:10 75:12 92:2 94:4 118:6 136:9 **drastically** 38:4 **draw** 138:21 **dried** 77:8 **drive** 105:3 ,5 117:17 122:18 136:4,19 143:19 146:3 162:17 173:8 179:15 ,15 **driver** 8:12 20:12 21:9,10,11 23:10 23:21 52:5 85:15 85:17 ,18 86:2,6,7 94:7 ,8,9,15 ,20 95:2,3 ,8,9,13 ,17 96:2,10,22 97:21 100:10,19 101:3 102:1 112:4 140:8 146:12,14 176:9 **drivers** 47:7 94:18 95:5 100:2 **drives** 96:18 129:17 133:21 207:4 **driving** 116:9 **dropping** 38:3 **dry** 160:18 ,20 175:5 **due** 198:13 **dyno** 140:3 **dynometers** 139:19 **E**

**E** 2:22 4:1 ,1 171:1 ,1 **earlier** 49:13 56:8 73:22 116:17 130:22 166:20 172:12 186:16 **early** 173:16 **easier** 18:19 76:3 **eat** 146:19 **echo** 72:11 **echoed** 63:6 **ECMs** 96:18 **ECS** 206:10 **eddy** 162:10 **Edison** 5:19 **EE** 31:3 **effect** 190:15 **efficiencies** 28:16 88:7 104:1 ,6 107:3 147:16 152:16,16 154:3 157:4 158:6,21 159:15 ,20 161:8 162:6,22 163:18 **efficiency** 8:12 14:6 25:3 ,4 28:2,5 ,7 ,10 28:13 ,15 33:1 ,3 35:4,5 47:11 84:1 84:7 ,9 101:12,13 101:18 104:8 106:9,12,17 ,20 111:6,9,18 ,18 ,21 112:3 ,6 113:13 ,18 115:8 ,10 116:5 ,6 116:20 117:17 120:18 130:14 140:3 ,8,11 ,16 146:12,15 ,22 147:7 ,10,13 ,21 149:1 ,13 ,14 152:20 153:3 ,21 154:13 155:1 ,2,5 155:7 157:21 158:1 ,14,18 ,19 159:9 160:3 ,22 161:7 162:17 163:15 ,20 164:2,4 164:10,16 176:13 177:1 ,4,5 178:8 179:5 ,5 ,15 180:1 181:4,5 ,22 184:17 187:19 188:18 189:22 190:2 193:6,7 ,7 **efficient** 11:22 30:11 36:16,19,19Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 216 38:11 47:11 65:21 106:15 157:3 159:14 **efforts** 4:21 **either** 33:10 45:7 73:11 85:19 94:21 113:4 185:4 186:1 194:21 198:15 201:15 **electric** 2:17 5:20 101:8 ,14,16 102:20 105:11 106:11 111:20 113:11 133:21 147:9,18 149:10 158:22 163:20 202:22 **electrical** 25:1 130:10 143:18 ,22 144:7 **electricity** 203:3 **electronic** 105:5 190:1 **elements** 174:16,17 **eleven** 8:9 **eligible** 95:19 **eliminate** 201:6 202:3 **email** 13:11 **emerging** 138:8 **employees** 196:14 **EN** 172:18 179:10 **enclosed** 154:5 ,10 154:12 **encourage** 10:3 13:8 16:20 72:18 75:21 82:14 140:20 141:1 165:6 195:19 **encouraged** 13:13 **encouraging** 146:19 **ended** 191:16 **endorse** 145:20 **endorsements** 82:16 **ends** 89:18 91:1 **energy** 1:1 ,6 2:1 4:7 4:9 6:8 9:18 10:16 11:1 ,9,14,22 14:6 14:9 17:9,12,15 17:19 18:9 19:2 21:14 24:22 25:2 25:3 ,6 26:4 51:20 57:3 94:4 96:7 ,12 97:1 ,13 ,20 101:15 106:10 107:21 108:13 121:9 139:12 158:3

180:6 181:16 187:8 ,19,19 195:2 208:8 ,14 **enforce** 41:3 **enforceable** 125:3 ,4 **enforcement** 54:19 **enforcing** 41:5 ,19 **engrossed** 64:8 **ensure** 73:7 116:12 **enters** 52:3 **entire** 116:3 120:12 157:4 **entities** 197:1 **entrained** 20:8 22:3 22:3 ,17 ,18 23:4 **envisioned** 31:2 **EPCA** 13:21 14:1 17:18 **equal** 84:10,12 114:14 139:7 194:13 196:14 **equally** 109:18 ,21 113:2 117:11 158:16 **equation** 115:4,11 **equipment** 13:22 14:3 17:20 18:1 18:11 20:7 ,12 22:2 23:10 24:13 24:15 ,19 25:16,17 32:8 33:21 41:22 43:10 48:11 49:1 49:11 ,16,21 50:1 50:2,4 51:6,18 52:14,20 54:7 56:6 75:3 ,3 78:3 83:17 99:20,22 100:4 101:11 107:19 108:7 ,17 115:9 130:10 134:22 135:8 137:7 138:18 143:12,18 ,22 144:7 194:11 195:7 196:4,16 198:15 200:1 ,5 ,9 204:15 ,17 **equivalent** 149:15 149:22 **error** 118:10 129:4 184:4 **errors** 11:7 **ESCC** 65:3 **especially** 10:4 82:14 83:7 94:10 124:5 133:19

134:4 195:20 197:8 **essentially** 24:22 96:19 139:7 ,10,14 193:21 **establish** 158:5 **established** 13:21 **estimates** 42:4 197:9 **etcetera** 193:8 ,8 **EU** 79:16 115:12 **European** 88:6 172:17 ,21 **evaluated** 88:13 113:14 119:15 **event** 150:7 **everybody** 51:8 91:17 149:15 208:11 **everybody's** 51:11 **everyone's** 66:21 **evidence** 12:3 **exact** 111:15 **exactly** 5:8 11:17 144:14,16 145:5 188:6 202:12 206:22 **example** 42:20 45:17 46:17 ,22 50:7 ,18 52:18 66:6 72:3 80:19 81:14 95:5 97:4 104:8 107:1 **examples** 23:17 54:13 65:22 78:9 **examples,-** 48:20 **exceed** 61:4 79:5 **excellent** 56:11 127:16 **exception** 45:5 **exceptionally** 110:8 **exceptions** 25:8 27:11 **excess** 135:9 **exclude** 48:17 49:5 50:17 54:10 55:12 77:4,15 99:14 **excluded** 50:8 72:22 76:18 77:8 ,10 78:12 79:21 81:7 81:9,17 88:1 100:1 ,3 **excludes** 50:21 **excluding** 50:19 121:4 **exclusion** 55:4

72:11 88:2 **exclusionary** 43:11 76:20 **exclusions** 50:15 53:6 56:4,4 **exclusive** 50:4 64:3 67:8 105:4 139:20 **excuse** 33:16 112:5 117:13 **exist** 196:6 **exists** 174:10 **expand** 192:17 **expanded** 181:15 **expect** 16:21 **expectations** 19:10 **expected** 125:19 144:21 **expects** 9:2 **expensive** 124:4 **experience** 139:21 **expert** 93:20 **expertise** 66:20 **explain** 65:1 189:17 **explains** 107:7 **explanation** 67:14 **express** 12:9 **extent** 44:4 71:9 104:6 142:20,21 **extrapolated** 165:13 165:15 **extremely** 23:20 63:16 110:5 133:7 135:13 166:21 181:18 **eye** 80:17 **eyes** 53:6 58:21 **F F**  2:7 171:1 **faced** 138:22 **faces** 26:16 **facilitate** 192:1 **facilities** 82:4 196:6 198:13 **facility** 82:2 196:10 **fact** 36:9 40:6 159:9 **factor** 67:11 135:5 ,6 140:2,7 ,17 ,17 150:10,12,14,15 150:18 ,18 151:1 ,7 151:17 152:6,8,17 152:19,20 153:3 ,6 165:2 200:6 202:19 204:7 ,12 207:1 ,2 **factors** 136:21

150:9 152:15 **fail** 155:4 **fair** 192:15 202:17 **fairly** 8:20 12:21 43:22 162:6 **fall** 60:8 148:7 **falling** 164:19 **falls** 64:5 **familiar** 12:22 90:19 93:21 108:11 111:11 **fan** 138:5 **far** 6:1 36:22 42:17 57:13 107:17 132:3 168:16 **fashion** 9:8 27:19 **fastened** 61:20 **faster** 131:13 **fastest** 170:2 **favor** 66:15 **favorable** 142:14,15 **feasible** 137:7 **features** 52:8 162:17 **Federal** 16:17 **feedback** 5:10 104:19 106:1 **feeds** 198:19 **feel** 122:11 125:15 139:14 160:11 204:7 ,13 **feet** 84:12 **Fernstrom** 3:5 206:16 **Ferstrom** 5:17 ,17 12:6,7 22:15 23:1 33:16 34:20 35:13 35:19 36:5 39:22 41:10 42:1 ,7 44:11 ,14 57:16 62:14,19 68:12 69:10 70:4,18 80:9,20 86:11 ,12 86:18 87:1 ,10,21 88:14 98:18 104:21 ,22 105:14 105:17 107:6 110:2,3 143:2 202:18 203:6,19 203:22 205:12 206:22 **field** 21:16 96:12 205:7 **fields** 138:8 206:5 **figure** 64:4 67:3Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 217 126:11 156:7 186:22 **file** 16:8 **filing** 207:13 **fill** 139:4 **filling** 162:11 **filter** 68:9 **final** 16:7 ,21 40:10 48:3 187:17 ,22 188:10,17 189:1 **finally** 10:3 **find** 27:6 33:8 82:12 158:12 164:10 198:16 **finding** 62:21 **fine** 75:18 ,18 **finish** 136:16 **fire** 81:4,18 **first** 17:17 ,21 18:14 18:22 24:18 51:4 77:14 137:12 158:6 189:19 **fit** 185:12 **five** 26:2 49:16,21 50:1 61:4 70:7 ,9 70:20 78:3 83:17 208:11 ,11 ,13 **flag** 116:17 167:11 169:16 **flexibility** 39:20 45:15 46:6 185:21 195:21 196:20 **float** 95:18 **floor** 90:21 170:3 **flow** 22:4,19 51:4 52:15 54:22 55:8 73:12 76:16,20,22 77:4,9,16 83:19 84:9 96:19 97:6 109:5 ,7 112:18 113:2,15 ,20 114:20 115:9 116:20 119:15 130:14,15 144:14 144:17 ,21 145:2 150:1 ,4 151:6 152:16 177:15 178:12 182:11 ,12 182:18 ,21 183:2 183:13 ,19 184:6 **flows** 177:12 **fluctuations** 123:3 123:13 128:13 **fluid** 2:11 6:21 51:20 55:22 78:5 121:17 ,19 **fluids** 21:15

**FM** 81:19 **focus** 9:14 53:5 93:6 93:16 137:4 **focused** 70:15 138:5 173:8 196:12 **folks** 70:7 131:4 172:4 203:6 **follow** 17:2 57:14 96:20 97:5 102:8 102:11 ,16 142:9 183:17 **followed** 190:12 207:7 **following** 8:2,11 102:18 114:14 182:13 183:5 **follows** 182:6 **foot** 19:15 **football** 76:17 **force** 124:2 **fore** 12:15 **Forgive** 22:15 **form** 37:22 199:2 **format** 121:12 **formed** 14:19 **formula** 11:11 **Forrestal** 1:7 4:9 **forth** 36:4 **forward** 5:9 20:2 62:21 72:9 73:19 125:12 138:22 **found** 66:19 **foundation** 53:11 55:3 56:19 59:17 61:19,19 72:2,6 73:16 **four** 8:1 26:2 84:20 117:9,10 191:7 **fraction** 164:17 **frame** 49:14 50:9 52:11 53:21 54:9 66:6 74:15 93:19 122:6 128:7 189:4 **frames** 69:22 **framework** 14:16 121:6 **free** 20:8 79:1 **freezing** 79:7 **frequency** 133:22 134:4,6 144:3 ,5 **frequently** 85:15 **full** 27:22 28:14 29:2,3 ,13 30:4,5 30:12 31:4,17 ,18 32:15 33:12,14,20 35:4,16 36:17

38:2,8,9 39:9 40:15 ,16 41:4,5 41:20 44:21 45:3 45:6,7 ,16,20,22 46:4,7 ,10 47:18 48:20 83:19 84:1 84:5 ,10,11 97:10 101:12,12,18 111:18 116:11 140:1 144:4 147:7 147:9 149:1 150:8 150:10 152:2,20 153:4,5 157:21 158:14,18 163:19 164:1 ,4 165:1 180:1 181:22 183:16,22 184:13 184:14 **fully** 10:19 15:17 16:6 55:18 142:13 153:6 166:17 **function** 53:11 ,12 56:19 73:16 115:9 164:2 **functional** 25:1 **fundamental** 144:2 144:5 182:10 **further** 59:14 65:2 83:15 96:14 100:8 116:6 146:1 155:11 159:8 171:22 201:20 **furthest** 100:12 **future** 18:7 155:21 156:12 171:12 173:6 174:1 **G G**  4:1 **gallons** 84:11 **gap** 66:1 162:8 ,9,12 **Gary** 3:5 5:17 12:5 22:15 33:17 35:15 36:5 39:22 41:10 44:11 57:16 62:14 68:12 70:10,13 80:9 86:11 ,12 87:4 98:18 99:5 104:21 ,22 110:2,3 143:2 202:18 204:20 206:19 207:7 ,10,20 **Gary's** 37:16 58:11 204:5 **gas** 2:17 5:20,21 79:4

**gases** 20:8 22:3 ,3 ,5 22:6,7 ,20 **gathered** 129:17 **gauges** 122:20 **Gaydon** 3:1 6:19,19 126:16,16 **geared** 85:20 **general** 25:5 39:19 48:8 ,19 56:3 59:12 81:12 82:8 93:19 96:9,17 100:15 102:10 106:15 109:12 111:11 112:10 114:2 120:7 128:5 128:10 129:11 ,12 131:15 132:4 134:3 145:8 147:3 148:4 185:20 186:3 193:21 194:7 **generally** 13:21 46:21 56:14 71:8 140:6 185:16 **generate** 164:3 **generated** 158:1 162:16 **generation** 121:12 **Generator** 6:8 **generators** 95:5 **gentlemen** 146:6 **getting** 5:9 22:11 46:2 48:8 83:14 103:1 128:22 154:1 205:9,11 **give** 40:19 51:8 168:20 185:21 186:19 191:9 204:21 **given** 5:6 24:19 28:9 44:4 45:8 ,17 57:8 64:4,21 72:15 129:13 151:10 153:19 178:14 **glad** 5:11 7:20 **gladly** 11:19 **Glenn** 3:6 **glossed** 26:16 179:19 **glycol** 162:12 **go** 10:10 12:21 13:15 26:10 36:3 37:20 40:12,17 44:22 51:16 53:2 67:3 ,18 75:10,13 75:19,21 82:18

87:20 88:12,19 89:5 90:22 112:10 116:17 123:3 ,9 124:3 126:20 127:12 136:16 138:17 139:16 146:18 156:5 163:11 167:2 168:19 169:6 174:3 175:8 ,17 179:2 185:20 186:8 187:13 189:18 ,18 197:18 200:9,11 204:10 206:2,17 207:8 **goal** 196:19 **goes** 39:11 44:12 125:9,16 201:8 202:1 204:3 **going** 4:4,13 5:12 7:21 8:6 12:17 ,20 13:15 14:5 17:7 24:9 25:12 26:12 30:14 34:2 35:16 36:7 ,16 38:4 41:4 41:5 ,7 43:11 ,13 44:2,22 49:18 50:11 51:4,16 53:4 58:10 62:7 63:11 69:2,16 70:19 76:21 79:18 81:5 83:4,8 ,9 88:12 91:5 ,12,13 91:17 92:20,22 93:6,8,12,12,12 95:11 ,21 100:21 104:2 107:10,11 107:13 ,14 108:9 110:13 ,13 111:8 112:10,10 114:3 116:10 120:1 121:1 122:11 125:11 ,20 126:20 129:19,22 131:3 136:17 138:22 140:15 ,20 141:4,4 141:8 ,13 ,18 ,21 142:5 ,6,10,16,22 143:5 ,8,9 146:8 146:10,10,18 150:19 154:14,14 154:19 156:5 ,6 157:2,18 160:21 163:15 165:11 ,12 165:16 166:2,18Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 218 167:2 169:3 ,11 ,17 170:1 172:7 175:1 176:2 177:13 179:1 ,17 180:13 183:3 186:8 ,13 ,19 186:22 188:20 189:3 197:16 198:1 ,8 199:21 200:4 202:10,13 202:20,22 204:6 205:3 ,9,16 206:6 206:16 207:7 208:2,4,9,12 **good** 4:4,15 6:3 17:4 19:5 ,15 33:8 34:22 74:20 99:4 116:1 119:5 ,9 123:17 ,18 124:15 138:14 155:20 166:9 174:14 193:20 199:20 204:21 205:7 ,11 208:6 **Goodman** 2:12 **government** 11:18 **grab** 40:17 91:22 **gray** 48:19 80:18 ,21 **great** 23:5 24:11 60:17 61:10 63:2 72:8 75:20 76:10 80:4,19 83:11 90:5 107:9 120:3 123:5 127:19 137:3 143:8 146:9 148:17 166:16 168:18 174:1 193:5 ,19 195:11 197:14 202:10 204:5 206:1 207:22 **greater** 84:10 149:22 194:13 **greatly** 32:14 **green** 49:10 50:16 78:20 114:9 134:6 180:19 181:15 182:13 **Greg** 87:15 **grid** 203:18 **grids** 203:1 **ground** 15:21 61:20 64:14 90:16,21 170:3 **group** 5:4 10:18 11:3 12:11 13:20 14:20 15:4,5 ,8 17:10,21 18:8

19:3 ,22 20:15 21:12 23:7 ,15 26:18 ,21 31:20 47:9 49:8 ,20 54:4 54:17 56:5 73:6 74:6,11 76:15 78:6,16 79:10,11 80:3 81:19,20 82:9 83:22 84:21 85:5 87:15 94:5 95:4 101:11 102:7 107:16 108:12 109:2,19 110:9 114:6 120:20 127:14 130:3 144:19 145:6,9 149:5 154:17 ,22 163:1 ,22 166:22 167:20 168:16 171:6 182:5 ,8 198:6 199:4 **group's** 10:21 15:21 **grouping** 46:18 **Grundfos** 87:2 **guarantee** 63:21 **guess** 16:18 32:8 41:17 42:15 81:1 87:4 125:10 156:21 172:11 174:14 175:8 204:20 **guidance** 78:15 145:16 186:19 **guidelines** 190:13 **guy** 198:21 **guys** 27:13 30:2 39:13 63:21 64:7 80:13 88:15 93:14 118:10,10 160:4 167:13 188:7 198:2 201:16,17 202:4,9 204:6 **H half**  45:21 183:17 183:22 **hall** 91:1 **hand** 9:21 91:6,15 92:19 **handed** 91:19 **handle** 22:5 ,21 **hands** 157:14 **Handzel** 2:14 6:13 6:13 32:7 ,7 ,17 58:10,11 59:5 ,8 59:20 60:3 ,12,15

63:4,4 65:1 ,9,13 65:20 66:9,13 ,22 67:13 68:1 ,7 70:12,12 75:9,18 76:5 80:1 ,1 82:20 82:20 92:2 98:2,2 118:3 ,6,6,9,13 119:2,6 127:13 131:6,6 154:21 156:17 ,20 186:12 186:13 ,18 187:2 192:5 ,6,7 195:9,9 197:11 ,12,12 199:8 200:19 202:5 ,5 ,12 **happen** 39:15 47:15 62:9,10 71:12 93:2 **happened** 15:5 **happens** 38:15 88:3 **happy** 141:22 168:15 **hard** 5:3 9:18 12:10 13:19 64:21 207:14 **hard-working** 110:9 **harmonic** 134:1 ,7 135:7 144:2 **harmonics** 135:12 **Harrison** 3:6 **he'll** 92:9,11 **head** 46:2 66:9 76:22 83:19 84:11 182:8 ,11 ,14,21 183:2,13 184:2,5 184:9 188:20 **heads** 59:17 68:22 **hear** 7:20 10:1 39:13 ,20 60:13 **heard** 13:19 14:18 33:9 39:6,17 44:14 107:17 **hearing** 10:18 ,19 19:3 61:16 201:7 **heaven** 171:11 **held** 141:13 **help** 45:1 56:21 66:1 115:13 126:11 128:12 129:3 197:9 199:1 **helpful** 22:14 59:7 64:7 71:9 82:18 83:7 86:10 128:15 140:22 160:6 174:20 175:13

195:7 **helping** 64:11 201:9 **helps** 67:14 **hermetic** 162:7 **Hey** 186:5 **HI** 6:12,14,16,18 49:20 54:12,14,15 54:16 55:5 56:1 56:22 57:17 61:6 61:8 63:17 64:6 72:9 73:21 82:22 88:2 89:20 114:19 121:5 ,16 122:3 ,3 127:21 129:11 131:4,20 144:11 144:22 165:19 201:16 **HI's** 72:2 **HI-referenced** 55:15 **high** 8:20 58:3 86:14 88:11 93:13 93:15 ,22 121:1 ,15 121:20 146:20 167:4 179:21 **higher** 87:7 88:4,9 104:8 126:21 141:9 153:4 160:3 162:11 194:13 ,21 **highest** 130:7 **highlight** 13:2 15:3 15:22 16:13 **highlighted** 15:14 94:18 120:5 **history** 8:7 13:16 15:5 156:9 **hit** 167:4 **hold** 38:8 132:21 **home** 13:10 **honor** 5:7 **hope** 11:9 **hopefully** 93:3 ,14 143:11 166:21 175:13 **hoping** 53:7 93:22 **horizontally** 61:1 **horse** 150:19 151:1 **horsepower** 43:6,7 59:22 60:16 61:5 70:8 ,9,20 72:4,5 84:9 119:13 ,17 135:9 149:18 ,21 150:20 151:3 ,10 151:11 ,13 ,17 ,18 152:2,4,7 153:4 153:21 154:13

158:21 159:5 ,11 159:11 ,13 **hour** 131:13 171:7 **hours** 93:3 **housing** 73:13 **Hu** 2:8 **Huber** 2:7 6:15 ,15 10:14,14 19:11 ,12 29:9,10,16,18 ,21 30:4,7 ,9,17 ,20 31:1 ,9,13 35:1 ,2 35:14,21 36:2 37:15 62:8 ,17 69:3 124:1 ,16,19 125:20 126:4,8,12 168:1 ,1 ,6,8,15 189:20,20 191:12 199:10 201:8 ,11 204:8 ,9,11 ,17 205:1 ,14 **huge** 126:4 197:20 199:21 **hundred** 43:6 132:6 **hundredth** 115:21 **hurdles** 173:15 ,17 **HVAC** 68:3 138:5 **hydraulic** 3:1 6:19 10:14,15 11:19 25:2 63:6 100:12 103:19 108:8 ,17 114:17 ,19 120:17 126:16 176:10,18 181:17 200:9 **Hydraulics** 177:8 **hypothetical** 45:19 182:20 **Hz** 116:21 172:21

**I ID**  170:5 **idea** 147:3 174:1 200:2,3 **identical** 25:1 66:2 **IEC** 106:9 113:11 149:3 154:4 172:22 173:8 **IEEE** 137:21 **ignorance** 22:16 **illustration** 47:14 **image** 48:21 **imaginary** 89:11 **imbalance** 135:6,7 140:7 **imbalances** 136:22 **immediate** 5:14Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 219 **Immediately** 8:2 **immersible** 50:22 55:12 **impact** 124:5 126:22 127:1 133:15 136:20 137:4 174:7 196:21 ,22,22 200:13 202:8 **imparted** 51:20 **impedance** 134:1 ,9 **impeller** 28:2,22 29:2,3 ,4,6,14,14 31:10,17 ,18 32:15 33:20 35:9 36:17 38:16,18 39:1 ,9 41:4,5 44:21 45:4 45:6,7 ,13 ,17 46:4 46:7 ,10 47:18 51:21 52:4 53:10 55:2,10,11 ,20 68:15 84:1 ,6,10 84:12 85:16,19 86:2,4,5 **impeller's** 69:5 **impellers** 27:13 ,14 47:20 **implementation** 16:10 31:20 **implemented** 33:11 **implementing** 64:19 **implication** 122:19 **implications** 207:5 **implicitly** 77:10 **imply** 22:4 **importance** 42:3 **important** 15:22 128:19 134:16 156:4 161:3 ,17 174:18 189:1 **improve** 128:18 133:18 **improved** 57:19 104:10 161:11 **in-line** 25:14 49:15 50:9 52:18 ,20,22 53:22 54:21 55:6 56:17 57:9 59:12 60:6,9,10 72:3 **in-lines** 72:4 **inadvertently** 87:12 **incentive** 34:7 192:1 **inch** 89:5 **inches** 84:15 163:3 **include** 11:10 20:8 20:22 54:2 60:10 63:14 67:9 83:2

99:14 107:4 110:20 121:4 135:5 181:15 **included** 20:10 76:12 84:17 85:3 91:16 92:9 99:15 109:10 193:1 **includes** 14:1 20:10 23:20 74:3 148:5 **including** 14:3 74:12 150:17 **incoming** 136:21 140:10,16 **inconsistency** 134:9 **inconsistent** 54:15 **incorporate** 120:17 **incorporated** 175:4 **incorporates** 182:8 **increase** 156:5 **incremental** 96:19 97:2,10 **Independence** 1:8 **index** 107:21 108:13 **indicate** 20:22 180:19 **indicated** 18:2 20:17 48:18 **indicates** 48:19 113:3 **indicating** 21:4 **individual** 26:18 ,21 27:8 47:4 **individuals** 5:4 7:17 12:14 13:20 92:5 92:19 127:11 169:19 **induces** 162:10 **induction** 84:22 101:4 105:1 ,7 ,10 105:18 ,20 106:2 106:14 107:1 138:10 **industrial** 1:2 5:1 10:20 53:16 70:8 **industry** 11:18 47:15 51:22 53:19 64:5 ,16 133:20 137:18 138:21 145:16 158:12 159:6 160:2 197:16 199:6 **industry's** 53:6 157:16 **influenced** 186:16 **information** 14:15 30:15 ,16 34:2,5 ,8 34:10,13 ,17 36:11 41:12 42:4 51:9 125:1 161:7 172:19 175:7 ,12 192:18 ,22 199:17 207:12 **inherent** 106:7 **initiated** 14:14 **initiation** 156:10 **inlet** 52:16 **input** 100:11 103:18 108:4,6,14,16 112:15 ,16,22 113:1 ,14 117:12 117:14,17 ,20 119:14 120:8 130:10 133:13 134:2 136:4,10 143:19 144:10,12 144:14,15 ,16 145:4 150:1 176:8 176:10,17 ,19 181:2,8 193:7 203:14,15 204:2 206:17 ,20 **installed** 33:22 **instance** 47:5 132:22 151:14 **Institute** 3:1 6:20 10:14,15 11:19 63:6 120:17 126:17 177:9 **instructions** 120:13 **insulated** 69:19,22 **integral** 202:21 **integrate** 128:6 **integrated** 74:3 **integration** 127:22 **intend** 30:1 58:13 **intended** 50:5 56:5 76:12 78:16 80:13 85:5 **intending** 55:12 58:6 **intent** 5:7 62:20 74:8 85:4 87:19 133:5 **intention** 8:15 86:19 88:2 126:7 127:2 **intentions** 56:11 **interest** 110:12 138:4 157:16,16 **interested** 11:18 15:9 23:11 115:13 191:20 192:7 203:17 204:1 ,2

207:2 **interim** 188:11 189:3 191:3 **intermediate** 89:13 89:17 ,20 **interpolate** 145:1 184:6,6 **interpolated** 145:4 **interpolating** 184:1 **interpolation** 183:2 **interpolation/extr ...**  174:19 **interpret** 61:19 **interpretation** 19:9 **interrelated** 203:21 **intersects** 89:16 **interval** 11:12 122:1 122:2,10 126:1 128:2 **interviewed** 198:6 **introduce** 77:18 **introducing** 63:9 **introductions** 5:13 7:18 **invest** 135:16 **investigated** 40:20 **investigation** 40:15 58:15 **investment** 141:9 **Investor-Owned** 5:18 12:8 33:17 **involved** 15:2 172:15 201:17 **IOU's** 3:5 **IOUs** 41:11 57:17 **iron** 162:20 **issue** 13:1 14:2 16:21 18:16,18 32:13 63:5 65:2 70:22 74:18 75:21 76:2 115:18 118:21 125:5 128:3 131:8 132:17 ,19 137:12 157:8 168:4,17 169:8 175:21 176:2 186:15 191:17 201:4,19 202:16 **issued** 118:10 **issues** 8:6 12:14 13:5 14:16 15:14 75:13 93:16 146:21 155:21 157:20 167:4 168:2 171:22

188:17 201:21 **issuing** 187:17 **item** 56:18 58:2 **items** 11:2 185:16 206:14 207:16,21 **iterations** 26:5 **J J**  2:19 **Jason** 3:3 7:12 **Jiangang** 2:8 **Joanna** 2:9 7:1 67:16 191:14 **job** 34:22 56:11 193:20 **John** 2:4 7:5 **joined** 44:19 **judge** 128:12 **jump** 15:19 16:13 26:8 168:22 **juncture** 174:2 **June** 10:21 14:13 16:21 **justification** 21:13 105:21 **K keep**  8:20 9:14,20 17:16 38:10 62:7 77:14 83:9 93:12 93:22 114:8 141:4 142:10,22 143:9 154:14,19 185:8 195:13 208:4 **keeping** 146:10 **kicked** 199:19 **kicks** 187:16 **kilograms** 79:2,3 80:11 **kilowatt** 61:4 **kind** 13:17 22:11 26:16 32:21 37:15 64:9 98:10 135:16 135:18 156:17 157:5 186:20 189:22 198:19 200:8 201:20 **Kingsbury-type** 162:15 **knew** 93:1 **know** 5:2 27:12 29:22 31:1 32:10 32:11 ,12 33:9 36:8 ,18 37:10,16 38:18 40:12 44:4Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 220 48:1 54:19 56:6 58:11 ,14,17 ,18 59:9 60:4 63:5 ,11 65:3 ,5 ,10 66:13 66:17 67:4 68:3 ,5 70:14 71:6,14 82:21 83:2 86:15 87:5 92:6,7 ,17 98:7 ,7 119:3 123:7 ,14 124:12 125:10,13 132:13 141:7 143:5 152:12 155:1 ,9,13 156:13 159:6 162:19 167:13 ,18 168:21 169:14 173:3 ,4 174:9 175:18 183:12 184:4 186:18 ,20 189:16,20 190:7 191:7 192:8 ,19 193:15 194:4 197:14,18 ,18 ,20 197:22 198:12,12 198:14,15 ,20 199:1 ,5 200:8 201:15 202:1 ,21 206:22 207:5 **knowledgeable** 66:10 **knows** 35:11 **L L.P**  2:12 **lab** 7:14 125:14 128:22 135:3 138:19 140:10 142:16 197:22 198:2,8 **label** 37:5 **labeling** 14:2 **labels** 35:7 **Laboratory** 2:6,16 3:4 **labs** 7:9 134:21 139:3 200:22 **lack** 36:8 **Lai** 3:3 7:12,12 **laid** 111:12 184:10 **language** 35:15 50:21 62:2 64:6 66:14,17 ,18 88:15 125:21 126:13 127:14 **large** 18:7 69:14,17 155:3 162:8 197:4 200:20

**largely** 201:16 **larger** 44:5 45:12 135:15 **largest** 45:13 202:8 **late** 173:16 **lately** 198:8 **Laughter** 19:6 204:22 205:15 **laundry** 197:19 **Laura** 44:19 **Lawrence** 3:4 7:8 **laws** 96:13 102:11 165:13 182:7 ,10 **lawyers** 63:22 **leave** 34:17 74:6 87:12 170:6 **led** 12:11 **leeway** 189:14 **left** 5:14 103:22 171:17 **left-hand** 99:21 109:9 154:11 **legislation** 88:7 **length** 20:13 21:12 74:20 94:5 101:11 107:16 163:21 **let's** 5:13 7:7 10:9 10:10,11 32:4 42:22 43:6 44:2 51:11 98:9 136:15 138:3 ,8 139:9,11 151:2 169:4 171:9 201:14 208:4 **letters** 118:14 **level** 8:20,21 58:3 93:13 ,15 ,22 121:2 122:18 126:21 127:8 141:19,21 141:22 142:6,8,12 143:5 144:4 146:20 167:4 179:21 **levels** 14:22 104:13 104:15 135:4 160:11 ,21 **life** 18:19 **likes** 34:8 **liking** 202:3 **limit** 9:16 60:20 67:9 83:16 98:15 121:18 146:20,21 194:16 **limitation** 59:22 **limitations** 83:20 **limited** 11:10 18:11 **limiting** 67:11 78:4 89:2 116:5 **limits** 77:1 **line** 89:11 115:7 136:22 140:4 157:13 **linear** 144:19 183:1 **linearly** 144:22 **liner** 162:9 **liquid** 52:3 ,6,16,17 55:1 ,9,14,21 151:13 152:2 162:16 **liquid-** 55:19 **liquids** 20:7 21:1 **list** 91:20 92:12 192:18 193:16 197:19,20 **listed** 83:22 84:20 154:6 158:14 193:5 196:15 **listening** 77:15 92:3 186:21 **literally** 171:17 **literature** 45:11 158:12 161:19 **little** 8:16 27:18 37:18 45:1 46:15 59:13 63:20 64:10 65:1 72:19 79:14 85:7 93:1 ,5 ,13 ,15 94:22 99:6 107:12 110:14 134:9 145:17 146:16 157:6,22 186:8 187:9 191:17 196:3 203:11 **live** 10:2 **load** 37:2,4,5 ,11 41:21 95:14 97:11 99:3 101:12,18 107:21 108:5 ,8,13 108:17 109:1 ,2,3 109:4,4,6,17 ,19 111:7 ,8,10,16,18 114:14,17 117:10 117:21 120:9 144:12 147:7 ,9 149:1 153:4 157:21 158:14,18 163:19 164:1 ,4,5 164:11 ,22 165:1 178:13 ,14 180:1 181:9 **loading** 97:8 111:17 164:2,3 ,6 **loads** 145:3

**location** 178:17 184:15 **long** 25:12 26:22 119:4 156:9 162:18 ,19 190:9 190:11 191:1 201:8 **longer** 122:9 127:7 **look** 5:9 32:2 38:5 57:8 58:3 62:21 68:16 70:21 71:15 72:9 73:19 82:15 93:5 98:7 116:11 142:14 155:18 166:20 167:5 ,6,11 168:21 169:10 170:7 173:9 174:3 182:16 197:2 200:11 **looked** 124:14 159:22 163:9 **looking** 78:2 98:10 116:15 120:7 135:19 137:15 **looks** 93:21 111:10 117:7 168:22 181:11 **loophole** 87:12 **loosen** 139:13 **loosening** 136:20 138:7 139:6,8 **lose** 22:22 **loss** 111:7 ,10,16 112:4,8 164:17 165:2 **losses** 111:7 112:8 113:4,4,6 115:5 117:18 ,21 ,22 146:22 162:10,11 162:20,20 163:16 164:5 ,15 ,21 165:1 175:4,5 ,11 179:8 179:15 **lost** 72:1 **lot** 7:21 8:17 9:1 14:18 15:6 17:6 18:19 26:15 36:3 37:10 38:6 43:10 64:2 71:16 77:22 80:12,18 83:9 90:15 92:18 93:2 98:11 103:2 110:4 134:3 143:1 148:6 152:22 160:17 162:20,20 169:22 171:16 172:4

188:7 195:19 198:19 **lots** 68:11 **Louis** 6:7 206:2 207:6,8,9 **love** 172:20 **low** 88:11 153:7 162:6 **lower** 97:8 103:22 140:8 ,11 ,15 141:18 142:6,8,11 153:2 162:18 ,22 **lowest** 130:8 **Lucas** 172:14 **lunch** 8:15 146:19 167:6,11 168:20 169:2,18 ,20 170:8 171:5 ,14,15 198:20 **luncheon** 170:9 **M machines**  22:4 **made-up** 26:17 **main** 108:22 111:22 181:20 **maintain** 134:16 **maintained** 132:10 132:13 **major** 171:21 173:15 **making** 46:2,5 85:22 140:18 190:14 193:19 **MALE** 37:6 148:9 204:15 **mandatorily** 36:8 **mandatory** 36:14 **manner** 194:10 202:2 **manual** 122:15 **manufacture** 12:2 **manufactured** 24:21 160:16,18 **manufacturer** 20:11 24:21 27:11 32:21 34:2,12,14 43:15 57:8 89:7 ,7 104:4 124:6 128:20 140:1 ,9 146:3 157:9 160:10 161:7 ,18 194:1 199:22 **manufacturer's** 45:10Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 221 **manufacturers** 14:4 26:18 31:21 33:6 34:18 39:19 41:13 46:22 47:3 82:14 124:3 126:5 136:8 136:19 137:2,8 138:4,20 139:1 ,2 139:19 140:12 141:3 142:2,13 155:21 160:1 162:1 173:8 175:1 191:18 ,20 194:8 195:20 196:13 ,16 196:18 ,19 197:3 ,5 197:17 198:1 199:12 200:14,21 **manufacturing** 2:12 194:19 195:6 **March** 16:16 **Mark** 2:10,14,19 6:10,13 32:6,7 58:9,11 63:3 ,4 67:17 70:11 ,12 75:6,6 80:1 82:18 82:20 83:13 92:1 98:2 118:6 127:12 131:6 154:20 156:19,22 186:11 192:6 195:9 197:11 ,12 202:5 **market** 37:9 38:8 53:19 189:21 190:5 **marketplace** 27:3 29:13 33:2 35:3 37:14 38:1 ,7 **marry** 188:4 **Mary** 2:17 **Masters** 164:8 **match** 19:1 99:2 **material** 93:2,10 179:13 ,13 **materials** 15:7 **mathematics** 115:19 **matter** 8:6 59:2 126:4 141:14 **matters** 32:1 33:9 **Mauer** 2:9 7:1 ,1 67:17 68:6 191:15 **maximum** 45:8 ,9,20 79:1 ,2 89:10 128:8 130:13 ,14 164:15 **mean** 32:8 33:11 37:15 39:5 66:22 67:7 69:14 70:13

83:3 87:6 88:19 98:21 126:9 127:6 128:9 142:19 156:10 178:9 186:14 192:5 194:14,15 ,16 200:10 201:14 205:8 **meaning** 61:19 **means** 20:6 22:18 24:18 45:7 51:19 51:21 52:2,15 53:8 54:21 55:7 73:11 74:1 78:21 79:12 87:22 89:10 90:18 124:22 150:16 155:2 165:14,15 167:20 170:3 **meant** 96:17 **measure** 100:11 103:18 120:11 ,14 176:17 204:12 **measured** 89:6 112:16 131:1 133:16 136:10 144:5 ,15 149:22 165:18 181:8 184:2,5 **measurement** 112:19 130:10 134:18 143:12,18 143:21 ,22 144:7 176:22 180:19,21 181:2 204:3 **measurements** 42:8 114:18 122:7 ,22 124:14 128:9 205:5 **measuring** 133:13 134:1 136:4,5 ,5 143:18 144:1 ,10 181:16 204:1 ,7 207:1 **mechanical** 20:9,11 22:1 23:10 162:14 **medium-sized** 200:13 **meet** 44:10,16 67:10 78:14 81:13 ,16 87:22 97:18 155:5 **meeting** 1:1 ,3 2:1 4:6,8 9:13 10:2 13:2 16:19 190:10 208:16 **meetings** 9:19 13:1

15:6 **meets** 43:9,12 44:5 **Meg** 2:15 7:3 **members** 10:15 11:17 15:3 20:1 **memo** 165:4 **mention** 109:18 145:13 172:14 179:4 **mentioned** 17:18 18:20 22:10 75:13 83:13 94:4 99:17 101:2 110:15 112:14 133:10 136:9 138:13 163:8 172:18 173:4 **mentioning** 128:19 **Menzer** 2:10 6:10 6:10 **met** 44:6,7 **metal** 162:9 **meter** 79:2,4 80:11 **method** 37:1 ,4 62:17 99:19 100:5 100:14 101:5 ,17 102:13 ,18 120:12 121:8 127:21 136:2 147:12,16 147:19 153:22 157:15 158:9 160:20,22 161:2,4 161:9,13 163:16 163:17 165:5 173:10 174:4,6,13 174:19,20,22 176:11 ,16,17 183:7 ,9 184:22 185:5 ,6,10,10 190:12 194:19 201:16 **methods** 8:14 100:15 101:1 120:18 122:16 136:1 145:7 146:16 166:19 176:8 184:11 ,21 185:14,17 **metric** 95:20 97:18 106:5 ,6 107:13 109:12,22 110:17 147:4 160:21 188:11 ,18 191:2 193:9 **metrics** 8:7 28:21 107:18 109:11 156:1 181:7 193:5 193:11 ,16 **MG-1** 155:7 ,8 156:14 **mic** 7:18 36:1 80:14 87:9 90:12 92:8 127:6 146:13 155:16 166:15 169:1 ,5 ,21 171:8 171:13 181:12 186:6,10 187:3 203:8 208:5 **microphone** 5:22 6:1 75:7 155:17 **microphones** 5:15 6:4 **mid-2013** 14:19 **mid-morning** 8:9 **middle** 64:14 126:11 **MIL-P-** 81:14 **MIL-SPEC** 81:3 ,14 81:17 **military** 81:16 **mind** 17:16 50:14 70:4 77:14 98:16 167:1 **mine** 62:11 **minimally** 108:6,16 111:6,20 113:7 ,9 114:13 ,15 ,22 115:2,8 119:13 157:3 159:14 **minimum** 40:17 ,18 79:7 88:7 106:12 106:16,20 107:2 154:9,12 155:7 157:3 158:13 ,15 158:20 159:9,10 159:12 160:2 164:15 **minimums** 156:6 **minor** 15:15 120:21 121:4 127:20 **minus** 79:7 84:13 85:10 131:19 144:4 **minute** 84:11 90:18 118:4 **minutes** 169:20 170:1 171:5 208:11 ,11 ,14 **missed** 165:7 175:6 **misunderstanding** 61:13 141:20 **misunderstood**

141:6 **mixed/** 77:15 **mixture** 162:13 **model** 24:12,18 25:6 25:8 ,9,19 26:1 ,6 26:16,20 27:7 ,8 28:9,18 29:7 31:4 31:4 35:9 38:17 43:19 45:5 ,9,11 45:14,21 ,21 46:7 46:18 47:12,20 64:4,13 ,21 84:5 ,5 84:8 130:2 181:1 187:10 194:6 **models** 26:18 ,22 27:6,16 29:1 45:4 46:1 47:4,17 ,21 64:11 197:3 **modification** 23:16 144:11 **modifications** 20:17 20:21 24:16 120:21 121:4,21 127:20 145:10 **modified** 165:19 **moment** 51:8 **monitor** 122:20 **monitoring** 123:1 **morning** 4:4,12,13 4:15 7:20 17:4 91:6,18 208:15 **motor** 2:21 6:6,7 40:18 47:2,4 53:9 55:18 61:3 68:14 68:15 69:21 84:18 84:20 86:15 95:7 95:8 97:3 98:9 99:3 ,10,14,22 100:1 ,3 101:4,7 ,8 101:8 ,9 102:1 ,4 102:15 103:9,13 103:16,18 ,21 104:1 ,6,7 105:2,3 105:4,6,7 ,7 ,9,10 105:11 ,12 106:8 106:13 ,17 ,22 107:5 108:2 111:3 111:6,7 ,9,15 ,17 111:21 112:1 ,3 ,4 112:6,9,17 ,20 113:3 ,5 ,6,7 ,9,10 113:18 ,18 114:10 115:5 117:12,15 117:21 ,21 ,21 119:12,17 ,17Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 222 129:14 131:16,22 132:1 ,1 ,5 ,22 133:14 134:2 136:4,10,19 137:14 138:9,20 139:18 ,22 140:9 140:12 141:2 142:2,13 146:3 ,22 147:7 ,10,13 ,15 ,21 149:1 ,2,13 ,13 ,15 149:18 ,19,19,21 150:4,9,19,22 151:1 153:20,21 153:21 154:2,12 154:13 155:20 156:5 157:21 158:1 ,6 159:15 ,15 160:1 ,2 161:12 162:17 163:1 ,14 163:16,17 ,18 ,19 163:20 164:2,5 ,6 164:8 ,8 173:7 ,9 176:18 177:18 ,21 178:5 ,14 179:5 ,8 179:9,22 180:1 ,5 180:18 ,22 181:8 181:10,14 183:8 183:16,20 185:4,5 185:18 200:9 202:21 207:3 **motors** 36:22 37:10 46:21 47:1 61:3 84:22 85:2,4 101:14,16,19 102:20 103:15 106:10,11 ,14,15 106:18 107:2,2 111:20 113:11 ,12 113:20 119:16,16 129:16,17 132:6 133:1 ,11 ,13 ,21 138:10 139:20 143:4 147:5 ,6,9 147:12,13 ,18 148:22,22 149:4,6 149:6,10,11 ,18 150:8 ,11 151:6 153:1 ,1 ,7 154:4,5 154:14 155:3 158:2,7 ,8,11 ,16 158:22 159:10,16 159:20 160:10,13 160:15 161:6,10 161:15 162:2,6,7 162:21 164:10 174:6 181:19 188:9 200:10

**mounted** 49:14 50:9 52:11 53:21 54:9 61:1 62:11 ,16 66:6 68:14 72:5 74:15 **mounting** 62:17 **move** 20:7 24:9 42:12 48:4 74:21 75:1 107:10 110:13 120:2 125:12 130:18 131:5 139:15 146:6,8 163:15 174:4 205:13 ,17 **moves** 55:22 **moving** 21:1 75:2 76:9,10 83:10 90:10 120:4 131:13 143:9 148:20 156:11 193:18 195:14 **multi-pole** 98:9 **multi-speed** 97:3 98:9 99:10 102:14 183:8 **multi-speeds** 98:21 **multi-stage** 25:13 55:6,8,16 86:16 86:22 89:22 130:1 130:4,6 **multiple** 29:6 **multiplied** 151:7 **mute** 9:20 **muted** 157:6 **mutually** 50:4 67:8 **N N**  4:1 106:9 113:11 149:4 154:4 171:1 171:1 ,1 **NAICS** 196:15 **name** 4:16 5:15 7:16 9:10 **name's** 4:11 **narrow** 18:11 43:22 **National** 2:6,16 3:4 7:9,14 **Natural** 7:3 **nature** 69:18 **Navigant** 3:2,3 7:11 7:12 **nearest** 88:10,12 **nearly** 63:21 160:12 **necessarily** 64:8 71:14 80:17 97:5 156:14 198:14

203:16 204:17 206:8 207:17 **necessary** 6:5 8:22 79:6 106:2,3 114:21 121:21 122:10 123:19 181:7 196:5 197:10 **NEEA** 207:9 **need** 44:10 56:17 59:13 60:12,13 68:15 71:14 74:16 77:17 81:13 82:1 90:19 93:17 97:9 101:16,22 102:17 102:21 104:9 107:4 113:17 118:14,17 122:6 126:18 128:9 136:9,18 ,18 139:15 144:13 146:18 161:14 168:3 ,8,16 169:17 171:6 173:3 174:2 174:5 175:1 186:11 188:3 189:12 192:10 194:15 195:1 198:5 199:16 205:3 207:17 ,18 208:3 ,10,11 **needed** 11:8 36:14 64:9 99:13 112:20 119:3 150:2 165:9 175:19 188:2 **needs** 39:9,10 59:3 70:15 127:7 139:4 175:17 **negative** 16:8 **negatively** 16:7 **negotiate** 14:20 **negotiated** 15:17 19:22 20:14 201:17 **negotiations** 5:8 93:20 **negotiators** 19:10 **NEMA** 2:20 6:7 106:9,9,20 113:10 137:11 ,14 149:3 150:8 ,18 151:1 ,17 152:2 154:3 155:7 155:8 157:4 158:19 160:10 164:7 198:21 **NEMA's** 145:14

**net** 140:8 **never** 25:12 29:14 35:16 39:13 ,15 58:12 199:4 **new** 4:20 63:10,13 148:4 178:16 196:4 198:1 208:8 **NGOs** 31:3 **Nice** 4:12 **Nidec** 2:21 6:6 160:9 **nitty-gritty** 167:19 **nods** 46:2 **nomenclature** 49:20 54:12,14,17 55:5 55:15 56:1 63:9 63:10,17 64:16 73:21 84:17 148:15 ,19 158:19 **nomenclatures** 63:7 63:8 **nominal** 86:21 101:12,18 111:18 112:2 129:9 132:2 132:11 ,15 ,20,21 147:7 ,9 149:1 ,16 152:16 155:1 ,5 156:9 157:10 163:19 165:11 **nominally** 85:6 **non-** 183:9 **non-absorbent** 79:1 **non-compliant** 27:6 **non-continuous** 95:10,16,19,22 96:15 ,21 97:19 98:6,12,17 ,19 101:20 102:14 108:1 133:12 180:8 183:8 **non-covered** 102:20 105:11 147:17 149:10 **non-electric** 95:5 100:2 101:3 **non-induction** 85:2 85:4 132:6 **non-issue** 30:22 31:2 **non-linearity** 145:2 **non-regulated** 37:17 **NOPR** 11:8 ,9 15:12 16:3 ,16 18:16,16 20:5 50:13 53:4 54:14 75:17 76:12

81:10,11 118:9 120:22 130:9 165:3 ,8 175:8 ,8 181:1 184:10 194:8 195:19 197:7 ,15 206:4 **normal** 8:16 136:22 140:10 **normalize** 166:5 **normalized** 116:21 165:20 166:3 ,8 172:22 **normalizing** 132:18 **Northwest** 2:6,16 7:14 203:7 **note** 18:18 20:16,20 56:18 92:22 93:18 114:7 115:12 116:4 135:20 161:17 166:12 189:1 **noted** 21:7 23:11 27:12 54:12,14 56:7 63:15 108:18 178:19 **noteworthy** 198:10 **notice** 4:5 18:15 184:22 **noticed** 180:21 **notified** 118:10 **noting** 9:2 83:8 195:13 **NRDC** 2:15 **nuances** 188:1 ,19 **nuclear** 81:3 82:1 ,1 82:4 **number** 18:18 25:18 ,20 26:4,7 27:16 28:22 35:9 76:2 84:2,6 116:13 129:1 130:1 ,5 158:17 159:4 172:8 185:16 193:5 ,22 194:4 196:21 ,22 197:3 198:7 202:7 **numbered** 18:15 **numbers** 18:16 20:20 169:19 178:3 185:6 **numerator** 38:3 106:21 117:9 **numerous** 85:17 **O**Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 223 **O** 4:1 171:1 ,1 ,1 **o'clock** 8:10,15 **obligated** 41:13 **observed** 57:18 158:13 ,17 ,20 **obviously** 13:6,12 14:18 16:9 27:15 39:7 41:15 48:21 58:15 59:11 60:5 66:20 68:9 98:14 98:15 110:21 137:11 138:5 ,18 139:3 153:11 172:21 173:7 174:21 175:1 ,6 186:14 190:8 192:10 197:13 198:6 **occur** 25:19 141:3 143:22 144:21 **occurs** 129:3 **October** 173:16 **offer** 26:19 130:6 **offline** 141:3 **oftentimes** 33:22 **oh** 92:4,9 114:3 129:20 175:18 199:10 **OH-0** 66:7 **OH-1** 65:10 66:7 **OH-2** 65:11 **OH-7** 65:12 66:2 **okay** 7:19 10:11 12:13 ,17 17:3 19:13 ,13 ,14,14 20:3 ,4 22:6,8 23:1 23:5 24:7 ,8 28:15 29:7 32:2,5 40:3 40:10 42:1 ,6 46:13 ,15 48:6,7 51:14,14,14,15 53:2 56:20 58:7 59:4,5 ,12 61:1 ,21 61:22 62:7 63:1 63:11 65:11 ,20 67:13 ,15 68:6 69:10 70:18 ,21 72:7 ,17 ,18 75:2 76:8 77:20 80:8 80:20 81:1 82:8 85:21 88:14,22 89:1 90:6,10,14 91:21 92:19,22 94:1 98:3 99:17 105:20 107:8 ,9 109:8 110:12 114:10,12 117:2,5

117:6 119:2,6,6,7 119:10,22 120:3 123:17 126:14 127:10,16,19 128:14,16,17 131:7 ,13 ,14 133:8 133:8 ,9 137:9 140:19 142:19,21 143:7 ,8 146:5 ,9 148:1 ,17 150:13 150:21 151:22 152:11 ,13 153:14 153:15 ,17 ,18 154:18 157:7 ,17 157:20 163:5 ,12 163:13 166:1 ,6,11 166:12,16,17 ,18 168:5 169:17 171:9,9 172:11 173:20 175:16 176:6 178:19,22 179:3 ,17 181:13 184:19 186:11 187:1 ,2,4,7 191:12 193:2,18 195:15 ,16 199:7 200:16,22 201:13 202:17 203:5 ,9 205:16 206:13 ,16 208:2,11 ,13 **once** 27:22 169:20 188:16 189:11 **One's** 172:17 **ones** 58:21 59:12 67:20 86:14 129:21 167:3 **online** 44:19 92:3 ,5 92:7 **oops** 89:4 **open** 15:6 30:1 31:12 34:17 154:5 154:10,12 **opening** 8:4,5 10:9 10:10,11 ,12 12:6 29:22 167:16 **operate** 34:7 84:16 84:19 86:14 88:3 97:11 183:21 **operated** 55:17 **operating** 42:10 86:16 88:9 130:16 **opinion** 169:13 **opinions** 98:13 **opportunities** 40:6 **opportunity** 8:3 99:2

**oppose** 10:22 **opposed** 177:4 **opposite** 52:5 **option** 31:11 47:19 100:7 136:7 191:18 ,21 **options** 33:15 100:6 186:1 **orange** 50:19 95:1 **order** 56:21 122:5 134:15 ,17 178:2 189:11 194:1 207:19 **organization** 137:14 **organizational** 5:16 **original** 72:1 118:9 **originally** 31:2 38:6 199:17 **ought** 160:11 ,22 **outermost** 90:4 **outlines** 14:16 **output** 100:12 103:19 114:20 176:10,18 203:16 204:1 **outset** 8:5 10:12,19 12:14 **outside** 127:13 167:17 **overall** 18:5 177:4 181:5 ,21 193:7 **overhung** 65:7 **oversee** 4:17 **oversized** 113:21 **P P**  4:1 **p.m** 171:2 208:15 **Pacific** 2:6,16,17 7:13 **packet** 7:22 12:18 **page** 8:1 11:11 ,12 11:13 16:12 39:8 51:11 62:19 88:21 165:8 169:7 179:16 **pair** 46:22 158:7 **paired** 47:6 96:9 97:14 101:7 102:4 103:16 104:7 113:5 131:15 132:2,5 149:7 159:16 **pairing** 47:3 ,8 **paper** 207:15 **paper's** 207:13

**parallel** 17:11 52:4 138:21 **parameters** 43:11 76:20 77:10 83:14 89:2 **pardon** 136:15 **part** 13:20 17:6 24:18 54:8 55:11 55:12,19 67:12 71:10,16 73:5 ,8 92:13 97:8 ,10,10 104:2 111:4,7 ,10 111:16,17 120:19 125:3 139:8 144:22 145:3 152:19 155:8 ,8 164:5 ,10 166:4 167:19 175:21 180:1 202:4 **part-load** 112:8 113:4,6 **PARTICIPANT** 37:6 148:9 204:15 **participants** 9:17 **participate** 5:10 10:1 ,17 **participated** 93:20 **participation** 12:3 **particular** 18:19 71:19 84:21 88:3 93:16 143:14 169:13 196:12 197:2,16 **particularly** 82:16 **particulars** 199:14 **parties** 11:19 16:20 23:11 115:14 140:13 **parties'** 202:2 **parts** 50:16 197:15 **party** 16:6 128:21 139:3 198:12,16 **pass** 91:9,22 194:21 194:21 **passing** 22:20 89:11 **path** 69:20 **pathway** 189:2 **Patterson** 2:7 6:15 **Paul** 2:13 6:17 21:19 27:20,21 37:20,21 40:12 46:11 56:15 ,16 60:18 68:19 69:10 69:13 80:15 85:12 85:13 87:20 88:5 90:1 115:15

116:17 119:19 122:12,13 128:16 132:16 135:1 ,2 136:16 139:16 142:9,9 150:6 152:21 156:16,22 156:22 159:21 162:3 ,4 175:18 177:7 178:20 180:16 181:11 184:12 **pause** 167:10 205:20 **peek** 171:15 **PEI** 11:15 ,16 28:21 28:22 29:2,13 30:20 31:5 39:10 40:22 44:20,21 95:14 110:14 161:9 174:7 ,12 180:4 181:6,10 188:11 189:3 ,7 ,13 190:10 191:19 **PEI/CL** 11:15 35:8 108:3 109:11 112:13 117:8 120:8 185:5 194:12 **PEI/PER** 30:19 **PEI/VL** 11:16 95:14 95:20 97:17 109:11 ,21 185:5 **penalized** 155:9 **people** 64:7 ,20,22 162:5 185:21 199:11 200:9 **people's** 157:15 **PER-25** 11:2 **PER/CL** 108:19 114:14 119:11 147:5 148:20 149:11 164:1 **PER/VL** 147:5 **percent** 37:2,3 ,5 ,11 87:18 109:5 ,7 112:17 113:2,14 113:20 115:3 ,4 117:20 119:15 130:15 ,18 131:19 132:11 ,13 ,20,21 134:12 144:4,14 144:16,17 ,20 145:1 ,5 150:1 ,4 151:6 155:4 162:12 164:5Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 224 182:12,21 194:16 201:15 **perfect** 137:16 **perfectly** 190:14 **perform** 178:6 205:7 **performance** 8:8 25:7 37:3 47:1 ,7 88:10 99:9 102:19 104:10 106:6,7 ,8 111:2,4,17 112:5 112:19,22 114:10 114:10 117:15 ,16 118:1 120:5 ,8,14 161:12 180:1 ,17 185:1 **performed** 11:4,17 40:15 **performs** 196:8 **period** 39:11 123:16 127:6 138:15 189:4,11 190:19 191:3 ,6 **perpendicular** 52:7 55:2,9 89:14,15 **PERs** 174:12 **person** 92:16 **person's** 92:7 **perspective** 136:13 136:13 173:22 174:8 177:2 **Peter** 3:1 6:19 126:15 ,16 **Petrillo-Groh** 44:19 **PG&E** 5:19 **phase** 22:4 135:12 135:12 140:7 **phone** 9:15 **physical** 20:9 25:1 122:22 179:18 185:10 **physically** 22:19,19 100:16 120:11 ,14 123:20 **pick** 32:12 175:17 179:2 **picture** 40:19 182:16 **piece** 135:4 200:5 207:13 **pieces** 188:9 **pipe** 72:5 **piping** 53:13 61:2 61:15 62:6 72:10 73:15 **place** 115:21 170:2 **places** 97:3

**plain** 35:17 **plan** 8:14 30:15 146:17 169:3 195:5 ,10 **plane** 52:6 55:2,9 89:12 **plans** 193:20,21 **plant** 205:13 **plants** 200:21 **plastic** 70:1 **please** 4:3 5:15 7:15 7:16,17 9:16 10:4 10:13 37:20 71:21 90:22 91:4 92:19 170:5 171:4 175:18 176:4,5 206:2 **plumbing** 68:3 **plus** 85:9 92:4 99:22 100:3 ,3 ,19,20 101:7 105:12 106:22 108:2 111:15 112:1 ,1 113:6 115:12 131:18 138:3 144:4 185:4,5 **pmp** 66:2 **point** 12:11 ,15 32:5 36:15 37:16 40:1 83:6 84:1 ,7 ,9 97:6 97:11 98:22 99:12 111:8 116:2,17 ,19 123:4,18 125:12 126:11 130:16 137:20 141:20 144:13 155:12 159:3 161:3 ,14,21 164:22 165:6 171:12 174:14 180:15 183:13 186:21 193:3 ,11 193:11 200:14 204:6 205:2 **point's** 203:12 **points** 72:1 97:7 ,9 108:5 109:4,17 ,20 117:10 120:9 126:19 127:8 ,8,18 138:3 144:21 174:22 176:12 178:12 180:20 181:9 182:2,12,15 182:18 ,20,20 183:2,11 ,15 197:13 ,21 206:18 206:20

**pole** 85:1 88:10,12 98:10 132:5 ,6 158:16 159:20 165:15 **poles** 154:6 158:15 **policy** 33:8 **polynomial** 164:12 **polyphase** 101:8 147:8 ,17 **polypropylene** 162:12 **pool** 49:6 50:20 54:5 54:10 57:21 ,22 58:13 ,14,18 ,20 67:19,22 68:4,13 68:17 69:4,11 ,15 69:17 70:5 ,9,15 71:4,11 72:13 ,21 73:4 74:1 ,3 ,7 ,15 143:4 **populating** 192:13 **population** 155:3 194:5 **portion** 121:10 **position** 72:2 145:14 **positive** 19:18 48:17 76:16,18 77:7 87:14,18 **possible** 123:20 130:16 135:13 181:3 185:22 191:21 **potential** 126:22 129:4 **potentially** 156:11 178:10 179:12 **power** 38:3 45:8 ,10 60:20 61:4 76:22 83:19 84:1 ,7 97:1 97:8 98:15 99:15 100:12,13 102:15 103:18 ,19 105:3 108:4,6,15 ,16,22 112:15 ,16,22 113:1 ,14 114:20 117:12,14,17 ,20 119:14 120:9 129:15 130:10 133:9,14,15 ,17 134:2,5 ,13 ,14,17 135:4,5 ,6,16 136:4,5 ,10,21 ,22 140:1 ,1 ,2,4,7 ,10 140:13 ,16,16,17 142:13 143:19,22

144:1 ,10,12,14,16 144:16 145:4 150:1 157:5 ,12 176:9,17 ,18 ,19 181:2,8,17 186:15 193:7 197:19 198:14,17 199:20 200:6 201:4,19 202:6,14,19 204:7 204:12,20,21 205:5 ,7 ,11 206:17 206:20 207:1 ,2,4 **practical** 39:16 135:14 **practice** 47:15 **practices** 138:19 **precisely** 132:14 **preclude** 105:18 **precluded** 34:3 **precluding** 40:4 **predominantly** 160:1 **prefer** 31:12 34:18 65:7 137:20,21 138:2 155:6 **preference** 34:16 40:1 138:17 **preferences** 137:14 **Prem** 2:16 **premise** 29:10 **preparation** 11:20 **preparing** 83:13 **present** 7:17 10:4 79:18 82:15 91:11 91:20 107:14 147:14 167:2 180:2 195:18 **presentation** 18:4 20:19 49:19 **presented** 20:6 23:20 50:12 78:4 81:10,11 169:8 **presenting** 72:20 93:14 **presents** 81:2 **press** 20:2 157:18 **pressing** 74:21 143:1 **pretty** 20:14 23:12 40:11 46:17 74:20 77:8 97:22 121:18 130:17 139:16 155:19,22 159:14 167:7 ,19 172:4 **preventing** 79:6 **previous** 77:2 101:2 159:19 178:15 181:19 **previously** 16:7 46:19 47:13 89:2 96:1 101:21 112:14 113:16 120:4 131:18 132:8 144:13 149:17 150:2 179:9,21 **previously-refere ...**  143:15 **primary** 24:22 94:16 **prime** 22:22 **prime-assist** 81:4 81:21 **principle** 127:18 **probably** 62:18 73:4 92:17 98:16 122:16 138:15 ,16 139:5 140:15 156:7 170:2 173:18 174:17 199:18 204:19 **problem** 62:13 65:4 115:16 167:17 181:13 201:11 205:1 **procedure** 4:6,17 8:12 14:13 ,21 15:20 16:15 17:8 17:13 18:10 19:1 24:2 31:18 33:11 35:19 41:18 43:14 48:14,22 49:3 ,4 49:17 50:2,6 73:8 76:13 77:5 ,21 ,22 78:8 ,19 83:17 85:9,11 89:8 94:3 94:6,11 ,20 95:3 95:13 96:6 99:18 100:18 102:3 103:11 104:2 111:1 ,12,19 116:4 116:14 120:19 121:16 129:5 130:19 144:9 145:22 147:11 154:8 161:5 ,15 ,18 166:5 180:21 181:19 187:17 ,21 188:12 189:8 ,13 195:22 196:2,7 205:19Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 225 **procedures** 1:3 4:22 14:2,4 17:18 43:21 44:9 64:12 71:20 94:14 99:7 107:1 133:20 143:4 **proceed** 5:12 12:18 51:12 92:20 187:6 **proceeding** 80:22 91:14 **process** 14:17 51:9 **product** 11:1 37:17 37:17 38:5 ,11 44:15 60:8 65:9 69:19 70:4 87:1 87:15 88:3 ,16 125:6,18 128:21 146:4 148:6 150:8 151:3 163:3 177:10 178:18 180:8 182:15 190:3 192:22 **productive** 93:7 **products** 14:7 32:20 33:8 42:17 ,18 56:17 ,18 64:15 85:17 88:7 103:10 150:9 177:3 202:21 **profile** 109:2 **profiles** 109:1 **program** 4:19 13:21 40:5 103:9 164:9 **programs** 34:7 36:18 42:3 192:1 207:14,19 **progress** 15:7 193:19 **progressed** 15:9 **prohibitive** 135:13 **Project** 2:9 7:2 **promise** 157:22 **promote** 11:22 **propeller** 51:21 **proper** 41:21 126:13 **proposal** 15:16 19:1 38:22 45:2 47:17 105:12 126:21 127:1 149:4 165:10,22 176:7 196:7 201:15 **proposals** 4:21 5:7 13:14 18:9 128:17 130:8 134:20 **propose** 125:20 127:15 172:20 202:11 **proposed** 4:5 13:5 16:5 17:11 ,22 20:5 23:9,12,14 23:22 24:3 25:17 25:18 26:4 43:4 43:10 45:3 46:9 48:22 49:3 ,4,22 51:2 72:22 74:19 77:21 78:7 ,14 81:18 ,20 83:14 89:3 95:1 97:15 105:22 109:12,17 112:7 ,7 120:13 121:4,16 127:20 129:2 134:5 ,11 154:8 158:5 174:11 176:16 177:3 179:6 180:20 181:1 ,4 184:11 185:2,17 187:18 189:10 194:8 195:4,22 **proposing** 23:6 48:16 49:16 73:10 94:3 ,20 107:17 120:16 121:13 ,19 121:22 126:18 132:9 144:18 154:9 161:5 172:7 174:15 175:16 **prospective** 73:5 **prove** 127:3 **proven** 169:18 ,20 **provide** 11:15 34:2 34:4 36:10 39:19 42:20 51:2,7 54:18 124:22 139:12 160:4 175:12 **provided** 9:21 42:16 79:4 134:12 **providers** 137:15 **provides** 49:15 **providing** 9:3 23:17 25:20 **provision** 187:16 **provisions** 21:4 105:13 121:15 129:3 ,10 130:21 131:20 **PSC** 98:8 **public** 1:1 2:3 4:11 12:22 13:1 14:5 16:18 **publish** 28:22 32:11

**published** 14:15 16:16,17 57:1 83:1 87:5 159:3 161:7 **publishing** 160:4 **PUC** 34:8 ,12 **pull** 91:8 190:4 **pulled** 123:6 **pulling** 188:8 **pully** 85:20 **pulse** 116:21 **pump** 6:15 8:8 11:18 17:19,20,22 20:6,10 21:1 ,8,9 21:10,10 22:1 ,1 22:20,22 23:6,8,9 25:14,15 ,17 26:2 28:8 ,9 29:5 30:18 35:3 43:7 ,16,18 43:20 44:4,15 45:4,8,11 ,14,17 46:22 47:2,4,6,10 47:17 49:1 51:3 ,3 51:4,16,17 ,19,19 52:1 ,2,3 ,4,13 ,15 52:16,16,18 ,18 ,22 53:8 ,9,10,10 54:2 54:13 ,21 55:1 ,3 ,7 55:8 ,13 ,13 ,17 ,19 55:20,22,22 57:7 57:8 ,9,22 58:13 58:14 60:22 61:3 64:5 65:12 66:8 68:13 ,14,17 69:4 69:5 ,6,11 ,21 72:13 ,15 73:4,11 73:12,13 ,13 74:1 74:1 ,15 ,16 75:4 76:11 ,17 ,19,20 77:2,12 78:21 ,22 79:12,12,12,13 ,20 79:22 81:3 ,3 ,3 ,4,4 81:4,15 ,18 ,21 82:1 83:14,18 89:13 ,14,15 ,17 ,22 90:11 93:19 94:7 94:8 ,8,12,15 ,16 94:17 ,19 95:3 ,6,8 95:9,13 ,17 96:10 96:12,20 97:2,14 99:3 ,17 ,22,22 100:2,3 ,10,15 ,16 100:19 101:3 ,5 ,7 102:1 ,1 ,8,11 103:16,21 104:4,8 105:12 106:6,7 ,8

106:19,22 107:19 107:19,21 108:1 ,2 108:5 ,7 ,13 ,15 ,16 108:21 109:6 110:1 ,17 111:2,5 111:13 ,15 112:1 112:13 ,15 ,18 ,19 112:22 113:1 ,1 ,5 113:5 ,9,14,19 114:9,13 ,15 ,15 ,22 114:22 115:1 ,2,6 115:8 ,10,10 116:5 116:6,20 117:9,14 117:20 119:13 ,14 119:15 ,18 120:5 ,7 120:9,12,12,14,18 122:16 123:6 124:2,12 126:5 129:5 ,13 ,14,16 130:7 ,9,15 ,16 131:14,15 132:2,5 134:13 ,21 135:3 136:1 137:1 ,7 138:4,21 139:2 141:2 143:4 144:9 144:12,13 ,15 145:4 147:1 149:16,19,22 151:5 ,12,13 152:5 152:7 153:19 161:13 162:16 165:14,20 174:22 176:10,13 ,18 ,19 177:1 ,5 ,10,11 ,18 177:19,19,20 178:2,4,8 179:22 180:5 ,17 ,22 181:2 181:4,14,17 ,21 182:1 184:17 ,21 185:2,4,5 ,13 ,13 185:18 ,19 188:10 189:21 190:22 193:6 194:5 196:5 199:6 202:21 207:3 **pump's** 17:8 52:5 84:16 117:22 **pump-specific** 174:8 188:5 **pumped** 51:20 78:5 **pumping** 21:15 78:22 114:17 196:15 **pumps** 1:2 2:7 4:6 5:1 10:20 11:4 12:2 14:1 ,3 ,12,13

14:22 18:3 ,6 22:20 24:17 ,20 25:8 ,10,21 27:12 29:3 42:17 43:1 ,3 43:4 46:20 47:19 48:8 ,10,12,13 ,14 48:16,17 ,18 ,20 49:6,11 50:5 ,10 50:19,20,22 52:9 52:20 53:16,21 ,21 53:22 54:5 ,7 ,11 55:12,16 57:18 ,22 58:18 ,20 59:12 60:1 ,1 ,6,7 62:10 63:8 67:19 69:15 69:17 70:6,9 71:5 71:11 72:3 ,22 76:18 77:4,7 ,9,16 77:20 78:2,4,9,10 78:10,11 ,13 ,15 ,18 78:21 81:13 ,18 ,22 82:2,3 ,13 83:16 84:14,18 85:5 86:16 88:8 89:6 94:2,6 95:4 96:8 96:11 99:7 101:6 101:14 102:4 103:14 106:1 107:22 113:17 114:1 119:11 ,16 129:6,17 130:1 ,4 130:12,13 ,20 131:22,22 133:11 133:12 143:13 147:5 ,6 148:21 ,21 148:22,22,22 149:7 ,12,14,18 ,20 151:10 154:7 156:21 158:7 ,7 159:16 174:12 176:7 ,14 179:7 181:10,19 185:1 185:11 188:19 193:21 194:9 196:13 ,15 198:16 **purchase** 43:16 **purchased** 33:21 **purchasing** 196:4 **purely** 27:10 41:2 **purple** 50:20 113:3 114:10 154:10 **purpose** 36:17 58:5 61:2 73:4 148:4,5 **purposes** 26:20 32:13 91:14 102:2Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 226 181:6 **put** 13:1 35:7 36:2 44:17 79:15 92:13 118:18 156:18 157:12 179:11 201:14 **puts** 79:10 157:10 **putting** 59:16 **puzzle** 135:5 **Q qualify**  95:18 **quality** 186:15 197:19 198:15 ,17 199:20 201:4,19 202:19 204:3 205:5 207:4 **quantify** 196:1 **quantity** 108:10 128:4 **question** 28:4 31:19 34:1 41:11 ,19 42:15 44:12,18 67:17 80:10 85:22 86:13 ,17 98:6 103:6 105:6 124:9 124:11 137:13 138:6 166:1 188:20 189:16 193:11 200:17 206:3 **questions** 13:7 16:10,20 44:1 57:15 75:9 103:3 114:11 167:21 179:1 187:15 **queue** 208:9 **quick** 67:17 143:3 155:15 205:2 **quickly** 12:22 13:17 139:16 146:18 191:15 **quiet** 205:3 **quite** 85:14 122:15 125:18 143:12 162:13 193:13 **quote** 190:10 **quote-unquote** 108:19 **R R**  2:18 4:1 171:1 **radial** 25:13 55:6 **raise** 9:20 **raises** 199:5 **ran** 87:11 **randomly** 194:11

**range** 18:11 85:3 ,8 85:10 131:17 ,20 132:7 159:11 **rapidly** 90:22 **rate** 31:4 47:2,3 84:9 96:19 97:6 114:20 116:20 130:14 144:14,17 144:21 145:2 182:13 183:19 184:6 **rated** 26:3 38:6 47:17 95:6,7 ,16 99:21 ,22 100:2,4 101:4,22 105:22 106:6 108:5 ,15 ,21 109:5 113:19 114:17 115:10 129:7 ,7 ,11 ,12 141:11 149:16 166:5 176:7 177:10,10 179:7 180:8 181:22 182:18 ,22 183:12 **rates** 177:15 182:18 **rating** 26:20 27:1 47:19 100:19 106:19 109:4 114:14 132:2 142:20 151:11 180:4 194:2,6,9 194:20 195:1 **ratings** 27:3 151:12 157:10 **ratio** 40:22 108:4 112:14 156:3 ,5 176:8 181:10,17 183:21 **rational** 38:9 **rationale** 34:22 41:9 **raw** 131:1 165:11 165:12,14,18 166:3 ,7 ,8 **reach** 116:13 136:8 **read** 20:6 24:14 51:8 176:2 **reading** 41:17 133:16 **readings** 41:17 **ready** 67:15 74:22 131:11 168:22 174:16 193:13 **reaffirmation** 82:17 **real** 62:13 144:1 155:15 165:9 180:14

**realistically** 173:22 **realized** 64:18 **realizing** 141:10 **really** 21:13 32:13 34:22 38:3 40:21 47:22 53:4 56:12 58:13 ,14 64:7 66:18 72:10 73:7 74:5 80:13 85:1 90:16 93:16 96:3 96:6 105:7 114:5 128:19 137:15 139:11 ,13 145:15 167:12 198:4 205:8 **reason** 30:9 41:15 45:19 124:10 141:12,14 163:10 172:13 **reasonably** 141:17 **reasoning** 106:4 **reasons** 156:15 **rebate** 36:18 40:5 42:2 **recall** 23:3 76:17 80:5 **recess** 170:9 **recognition** 188:4 **recognize** 28:1 157:20 160:14 **recognized** 9:21 159:6 **recognizes** 29:5 134:13 135:21 **recognizing** 93:8 140:15 188:7 **recommend** 32:9 88:15 133:2 160:19 **recommendation** 20:16,20 23:15 139:6 202:13 **recommendations** 76:15 82:9 120:20 121:3 130:3 182:7 **recommended** 16:2 17:9 18:9 19:2 23:7 49:7 ,19 54:17 73:6 78:7 95:4 109:2 145:8 **recommending** 143:6 178:8 **reconsider** 142:1 **record** 7:17 9:10 171:10 **recordkeeping**

91:15 **red** 49:1 164:16 182:17 183:11 **redetermine** 177:15 178:16 **reduce** 39:1 97:13 99:15 178:11 201:5 **reduced** 97:7 98:15 **reduces** 27:3 **reduction** 97:1 102:15 ,16 182:2 **redundant** 72:20 **refer** 50:16,21 96:17 99:18 101:1 185:7 **reference** 13:12 34:8 55:21 73:21 76:2 77:1 ,11 81:12,22 82:2 102:9,17 107:17 120:17 148:9,12 175:4,5 ,11 ,14 182:3 ,6,19 183:1 183:5 ,14 184:8 **referenced** 45:10 51:5 55:4,22 73:22 101:13 130:22 144:13 154:17 **references** 81:14 145:17 156:14,15 **referencing** 57:12 63:11 152:3 159:1 179:11 **referred** 15:12 86:1 86:3 **referring** 82:13 **refers** 100:9,14 103:22 152:8 **refined** 71:10 73:5 **reflect** 38:17 104:10 **reflected** 16:6 115:2 **reflective** 47:8 **reflects** 15:17 36:16 112:8 ,19 **Regal** 2:22 98:5 137:10 145:12 172:6 **regarding** 23:16 76:22 129:5 133:21 161:16 **regardless** 44:17 147:1 163:17 178:3 185:2 **regards** 4:21 **Register** 16:18

**regression** 144:20 **regroup** 169:3 **regulate** 135:10 140:4 **regulated** 21:2 28:21 37:17 42:17 142:4 **regulating** 135:8 **regulation** 42:19 44:16,16 58:22 62:12 69:9 135:16 148:4 152:19 157:5 ,12 190:15 **regulations** 16:11 23:9 24:14 64:15 64:20 113:10 153:12 **regulatory** 8:7 14:17 26:17 34:9 39:15 ,18 40:7 ,8 40:14 121:6 148:20 155:21 156:1 188:10 191:2 195:21 196:20 **reiterates** 101:2 **related** 17:7 29:7 191:17 **relation** 179:4 **relatively** 13:17 **relaxing** 136:11 **release** 137:19 **released** 73:22 137:18 138:15 172:17 173:14 175:15 **relevant** 20:3 23:5 179:11 **reliability** 133:15 137:5 **relook** 124:9 **remark** 12:6 156:18 **remarks** 4:14 8:3 ,5 10:7 ,9,10,12,12 83:12 167:16 **remember** 129:18 180:9 191:15 **remind** 15:20 **removed** 129:3 **repeat** 63:5 178:16 **repeatability** 128:18 131:10 133:18 137:5 **repeated** 17:15 **repeatedly** 63:7Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 227 **replace** 179:12 **report** 29:19 32:14 33:1 ,20 34:5 36:10 40:2 41:13 41:16,17 83:3 92:12 121:12 192:11 206:4,5 207:12,18 **reported** 34:9 36:14 40:8 41:12 **reporting** 32:12,14 34:3 ,17 121:7 204:14 205:5 **represent** 25:7 47:10 145:18 161:11 164:1 **representation** 21:7 167:14 190:2,13 **representations** 14:5 27:14 28:5 29:12 33:3 41:21 45:15 46:5 187:8 187:19 188:8 ,15 188:17 189:2,6 190:22 191:2,19 **representative** 100:19 102:19 113:22 159:9 194:5 **represented** 26:6 **representing** 5:18 6:12,14,16,18 194:6 **reprimed** 82:1 **request** 11:14 14:14 18:14,22 51:18 59:9 77:6,18 79:19 83:12 91:5 107:10 109:14,16 109:22 119:10 131:3 132:15 155:10 184:11 197:7 206:14 **requested** 76:2 **requesting** 47:16 56:3 74:18 97:15 149:7 **requests** 24:2 56:2 75:11 ,16 134:19 145:9 166:13 176:6 185:15 195:4 **require** 33:13 47:17 56:19 103:12 125:22 127:9 134:14 161:5 167:12 197:4

**required** 31:19 36:7 39:8 ,9 40:16 41:6 84:2 104:5 113:1 120:10 121:11 ,13 134:22 136:3 141:10 147:1 161:1 176:20 178:10 **requirement** 97:2 124:2 133:22,22 139:10 144:9 **requirements** 11:7 40:18 81:12 104:14 122:3 134:5 ,17 136:3 137:21 ,22 138:7 139:6,9,13 145:18 160:13 199:19 203:14 **requires** 53:11 55:3 73:14 122:3 198:19 **requiring** 33:13 ,19 45:16 73:9 143:21 **residential** 69:17 ,18 70:2 **resolved** 202:2 **Resources** 7:4 **respect** 88:16 **respond** 75:14,21 96:18 99:5 135:21 **response** 12:16 13:13 24:6 48:5 90:9 110:10 125:21 127:15 146:7 193:17 **responsibility** 191:5 **rest** 200:7 **restroom** 208:12 **restrooms** 90:22 **result** 5:3 140:8 **resultant** 100:18 180:4 **results** 135:18 142:14,15 ,18 **resume** 90:18 91:2,5 171:3 208:13 **resuming** 170:4 **reverted** 64:17 **review** 7:22 8:2 64:1 88:19 146:15 171:18 173:4 195:20 **reviewed** 53:15 57:5 96:7 133:19 134:10 143:14

147:3 153:10 154:22 164:7 171:20 172:18 ,19 **reviewers** 76:3 **revise** 197:9 **revisions** 173:19 **revisit** 87:17 **reward** 171:11 **rid** 201:3 **right** 17:4 19:20 30:22 36:15 38:10 43:5 51:15 56:6 60:11 62:16,18 66:12 67:6 69:1 72:4,14 75:12 77:13 82:7 83:11 105:20 107:9 116:13 117:3 126:12 128:8 129:20 141:3 148:3 ,10,13 ,16,19 151:1 ,4,15 153:13 153:14 154:18 167:13 169:9,9 170:1 175:4 181:1 191:8 ,9 193:2,14 195:14 202:12,12 205:2,21 206:21 208:13 **right-hand** 110:22 132:3 **rigid** 53:11 55:3 59:17 61:18 72:2 72:6 73:16 **rise** 139:3 153:7 ,8 **rises** 153:2 **risk** 27:5 ,9 **river** 80:18 **Rob** 2:21 6:6,9 36:20,21 103:5 104:11 147:22 160:8 163:6,7 208:4 **Robert** 2:18 **Rockwell** 2:8 **rooftop** 43:1 ,7 **room** 1:7 10:1 ,6 168:19 170:6 208:13 **Ross** 2:11 6:21 ,21 71:22,22 157:8 192:17 **rotate** 85:6 **rotating** 51:21 60:22 83:20 85:19 97:10 132:4

**rotation** 131:17 132:12 **rotodynamic** 48:17 49:11 51:3 ,16,19 52:1 ,3 54:22 55:8 55:17 73:13 76:19 120:18 **rotor** 51:21 160:20 160:20 162:19,19 **rotors** 160:17 ,18 **roughly** 169:12 **rounded** 131:1 165:22 **rounding** 115:21 130:21 **row** 75:12 108:19 **rows** 147:4 **Roy** 2:12 42:14,22 43:5 **RPM** 85:6 86:16,21 87:6,8 88:4 132:22 **RSV** 25:9,12 26:2 49:13 **rule** 16:22 54:16 148:7 187:17 ,18 187:22 188:6,17 189:1 ,10 **rulemaking** 4:20 12:3 14:14 16:15 18:6 20:14 35:22 54:8 71:10,17 72:14 73:1 78:21 138:16 **Rulemaking's** 4:5 **rulemakings** 49:7 73:5 **rules** 13:5 15:21 16:5 17:11 ,14,22 43:4 115:18 188:3 **run** 37:10 75:15 140:3 207:14,19 208:12 **run-out** 130:12 **running** 140:6 165:14 167:9 191:22 199:13 **Ruzicka** 2:13 6:17 6:17 21:17 ,19,19 21:22 22:7 ,18 27:21 ,21 37:21 ,21 40:13 46:12 56:16 56:16,21 60:18 ,19 61:8 ,18 ,22 62:3 69:13 ,13 80:16 85:13 ,13 86:3 ,7

86:22 87:3 88:6 90:2 115:16 116:18 117:2,5 119:20 122:13 ,13 123:11 ,16 128:11 132:17 135:2,2 136:17 139:17 142:7 ,11 150:7 ,17 150:22 151:9,16 151:21 152:1 ,6,12 152:22 153:13 157:1 159:22 162:4 165:7 166:1 166:6,11 175:20 176:5 177:8 178:1 178:11 ,21 184:13 184:18 **S S**  4:1 171:1 ,1 ,1 **safe** 130:16 **sake** 172:22 **sale** 20:11 21:3 26:19 **sales** 190:5 192:18 192:19 193:1 196:12 **sample** 194:12,14 **sampling** 8:14 146:17 193:20,21 195:5 ,10 **San** 5:20 **Sarah** 2:6 7:13 17:3 21:17 23:4 27:12 59:8 60:19 76:1 90:2 92:21 105:1 118:3 127:18 131:12 135:2 156:2 159:22 172:12,18 173:4 175:11 187:6 197:12 **Sarah's** 17:1 93:19 **satisfactory** 203:2 **saturation** 79:5 **save** 96:7 ,12 **saved** 71:5 **savings** 42:5 97:1 97:20 108:22 139:12 **saw** 13:5 67:19,19 67:21 131:17 **saying** 32:1 69:7 87:4 123:1 ,9 151:8 ,9 205:4Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 228 **says** 27:15 ,18 29:15 62:11 125:7 132:20 166:6,7 206:4 **SBA** 196:13 **scale** 39:1 144:4 202:14 **scales** 38:20 **schedule** 93:1 **scheme** 28:18 33:5 50:13 51:10 114:8 **scope** 8:7 10:22 17:8 17:12 18:5 19:1 43:3 ,12 44:8 50:6 67:9 70:14 71:5 ,8 71:15 ,19 76:13 77:4,10,20 78:4 83:16 89:2 **scratching** 59:17 **sealing** 162:8 **sealless** 81:3 **seats** 4:3 91:4 171:4 **second** 26:9 91:15 126:1 175:3 200:20 **Secondly** 57:20 **seconds** 122:1 ,4,8 122:14,19 123:17 123:20 128:3 ,4 **section** 6:8 15:22 50:9 82:2 121:14 146:18 153:11 **sections** 121:5 ,7 **secured** 170:6 **see** 4:12 7:7 ,20 15:13 18:4 26:15 40:21 46:8 48:18 50:11 53:22 54:12 68:21 78:9 83:4 91:1 92:15 99:20 117:9 123:8 125:1 126:7 ,12 127:5 135:6 147:4,8 149:9 154:4,10 159:4,17 163:10 164:18 169:4 170:7 175:7 ,18 183:11 ,14 193:5 199:3 201:12 206:21 **seeing** 80:19 124:10 **seek** 13:13 **seeking** 13:3 19:8 **seeks** 176:10 **seemingly** 202:3 **seen** 5:7 **selected** 85:8 150:4 164:15 194:11 **selection** 38:11 **self-priming** 81:4 81:21 **sell** 28:8 ,9,14 33:7 58:18 ,19 **selling** 28:13 **semantics** 59:2 **sense** 28:8 30:10 46:3 57:10 82:18 105:13 **separate** 22:21 47:20 58:2 74:14 91:14 92:13 107:4 113:12 **serious** 199:5 **serves** 53:9 **service** 150:9,10,12 150:14,15 ,17 ,18 151:1 ,7 ,17 152:6 152:8 ,15 ,17 ,19,20 153:3 ,6 **serving** 108:7 ,16 **session** 91:13 **sessions** 15:8 **set** 17:18 27:10 33:5 71:19 **seven** 15:6 **severely** 200:13 **shaft** 52:4,7 53:9,10 55:2,10 61:3 68:15 69:22 83:22 84:7 89:14,15 113:1 ,13 117:17 119:14 130:9 149:22 176:19 181:2 **shaking** 68:21 **shape** 76:17 89:12 89:16 114:22 **share** 9:13 37:2 **sheet** 5:5 10:21 15:10,11 ,16,18 16:5 35:8 78:7 **shop** 90:20 170:2 **short** 91:3 99:1 167:21 203:2 **shorter** 5:22 122:10 **shortly** 190:20 **show** 182:4 206:6 **showed** 118:16 180:11 **showing** 56:11 140:11 **shown** 103:21 115:11 164:11 169:19 **shows** 35:10,11 109:10 110:19 111:2 125:1 **side** 52:5 60:5 63:6 70:2,3 ,15 154:11 203:15 ,15 ,16 **sidebar** 9:16 **significance** 116:3 116:11 **significant** 80:6 82:11 115:19 116:10 145:3 162:10 196:21 ,22 **significantly** 32:18 112:6 176:12 198:3 **silent** 9:15 **similar** 26:7 53:20 107:15 111:16,17 117:8 143:3 166:21 181:18 194:9 **similarly** 50:19 52:15 81:18 95:9 102:20 108:14 143:6 147:18 181:14 **simplicity** 33:18 **simplified** 32:14 **simplify** 26:12 **simply** 34:11 ,14 42:9 80:10 **Simultaneous** 65:16 **single** 26:19 47:20 51:3 52:15 54:21 54:22 55:8 73:12 73:12 98:7 202:7 202:15 **single-phase** 70:6,7 70:20 101:4 105:1 105:9 106:14 107:1 **single-stage** 52:2 55:16 **sir** 154:21 **situation** 45:19 **situations** 42:11 **six** 26:3 79:21 **size** 113:17 ,18 150:4 194:12 196:13 **sized** 113:13 **skinny** 162:18 **skip** 171:19,19 **slender** 162:19 **sliced** 77:22

**slide** 13:9,12 21:6 25:11 45:1 48:9 49:15 50:11 51:8 53:3 75:4 79:20 81:2 82:5 95:11 101:2 102:22 104:17 109:8 117:7 118:16,21 119:5 129:19 159:19 164:13 169:4,16 171:17 172:8 ,10 175:17 175:21 179:2,17 180:9,10 184:20 185:9,12,20 187:7 195:17 206:9 **slides** 12:21 15:20 17:6,14 75:12 76:22 93:14 94:2 100:8 129:21 130:11 131:13 166:14,21 169:9 170:8 171:16 172:3 193:19 **slight** 20:17 23:15 60:9 **slightly** 54:15 113:21 140:6,7 182:9 **slowed** 133:1 **small** 59:12 115:18 124:5 196:13 ,17 196:19,21 197:1 ,2 197:4,16 200:13 **smaller** 122:16 135:15 202:9 **software** 9:21 **solar-powered** 87:7 **sold** 21:9,10,10 45:18 84:18 94:6 94:8 ,8,15 ,17 ,18 95:4,7 ,7 99:7 100:20 101:3 ,14 103:15 107:20,22 119:16,18 129:14 129:16,17 131:22 131:22 133:11 ,12 147:2,5 ,6 149:18 149:19,20 150:8 ,9 151:2,10,11 152:1 152:7 158:7 177:18 178:4 180:5 181:10,14 185:3 ,19 **solid** 79:1 ,3 **solids** 20:8 ,9 68:9 80:12 **solution** 202:11 204:20 **Solutions** 2:3 4:12 **somebody** 198:17 **somewhat** 138:9 **soon** 192:12 **sorry** 26:14 66:10 116:18 118:3 127:9 154:21 156:17 157:1 192:7 **sort** 18:5 46:17 75:12 97:3 103:21 110:19 159:2 164:19 179:19 182:3 **sorts** 207:4 **source** 24:22 144:3 144:5 **sources** 129:4 **Southern** 5:19,21 **speak** 6:4 9:10,11 9:22 69:2,3 135:8 137:11 **speaking** 6:1 13:21 62:1 65:16 160:9 202:4 **special** 61:2 148:5 **specific** 14:22 16:13 18:12 23:7 ,22 24:16 25:17 ,18 43:18 44:3 ,7 47:8 48:8 49:1 51:17 52:9 53:17 54:4 56:7 59:22 63:16 63:18 64:16 65:9 72:20 75:3 76:11 76:22 78:3 ,17 81:12 82:2 83:12 84:6,19 92:7 94:12 96:16 99:19 106:9 107:10 108:5 110:17 111:2 114:20 121:2,5 ,8 ,18 129:7 ,16 130:5 ,7 130:8 ,13 133:6 134:16 144:10,12 150:2 158:21 159:5 ,13 193:22 198:4 **specifically** 13:2 14:11 ,20 15:21 35:20 43:3 48:14Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 229 49:5 ,6 50:1 ,17 52:19 67:1 71:11 73:20 74:2,7 77:9 78:12 92:17 95:14 119:12 121:11 135:14 140:22 148:19 156:1 174:10 195:5 196:18 197:5 **specification** 34:15 81:16 82:12 125:8 134:11 **specifications** 40:8 42:10 129:18 **specificity** 57:6 64:10 72:13 99:13 **specified** 26:7 33:22 34:11 85:3 116:14 120:9 129:10,11 144:6 **specify** 103:12 121:22 127:22 **specifying** 129:6,12 159:14 204:2 **speed** 76:22 85:3 ,10 85:14,15 ,17 ,19,19 86:2,2,5 ,6,7 ,14,21 88:10,11 ,11 ,12 96:10,14,18 ,22 97:10,21 98:8 102:15 114:20 115:10 116:21 129:5 ,7 ,7 ,10,10 129:11 ,13 131:14 131:16 132:3 ,4,10 132:11 ,11 ,20,22 133:3 ,21 136:5 138:9 143:19 145:21 149:15 ,16 153:21 165:11 ,15 165:15 ,20 166:5 176:19 181:22,22 182:1 ,14 183:16 183:17 ,17 ,21 ,22 183:22 207:4 **speeds** 83:20 88:9 98:15 ,21 ,22 **spend** 198:9 **split** 25:13 55:6 **spoken** 132:20 **St** 6:7 **stabilization** 122:2 122:4,14 124:20 126:9 127:3 ,6 128:1 **stabilized** 122:5 127:4

**stable** 123:2,7 ,9,11 123:12,18 124:13 124:15 ,22 125:1 ,7 125:11 **stage** 26:5 54:21 55:10,20 73:12 130:5 ,7 **stages** 25:18 ,21 26:2 26:3 ,3 ,4,7 27:16 55:18 84:2,6 130:1 ,5 **stakeholders** 8:4 10:6 **stand** 7:16,17 54:19 100:11 **standard** 11:1 ,9,11 14:10,22 16:2 17:9,12,16 18:10 19:2 40:16 41:3 ,3 41:20,20 42:8 ,9 43:14 83:17 84:3 106:7 ,8,8,11 ,13 106:17 107:5 108:10,18 ,20 114:4,13 ,21 115:4 116:10 119:12 120:17 121:10 124:17 127:21 128:8 133:3 137:16 138:5 ,12 138:16 141:14 143:6 144:8 145:15 ,20 146:2 148:4,21 149:2,11 156:20 158:9 163:22 172:18 ,21 172:22 173:9,18 175:15 178:1 179:10 188:3 191:20 192:9 194:22 195:3 196:14 208:9,14 **standards** 2:9 4:7 4:19,22 7:2 11:5 14:2,13 17:19 41:5 43:21 44:9 48:15 ,22 49:3 ,12 49:17 50:3 ,6 64:12 71:20 76:13 77:5 ,22 78:8 ,19 83:1 101:16 116:7 134:10 143:15 156:5 158:3 ,22 167:8 172:14,16 180:6 189:5 ,9 **standpoint** 39:15 ,16

145:18 168:2 **stands** 123:21 **Starr** 206:3 ,14,19 207:6,9 **start** 4:13 5:13 17:7 38:2 93:13 168:7 169:4,11 172:7 189:12 192:13 199:3 **started** 64:20 135:11 **starting** 17:17 19:14 172:10 **state** 38:14 119:20 122:21 139:1 **statement** 16:2 85:16 166:7 **statements** 8:4,5 **static** 159:2 182:8 **stating** 142:7 **statistical** 174:20 194:18 **statutory** 13:16 187:16 **stay** 97:9 **staying** 63:12 **steady** 122:21 **step** 17:21 107:13 **stick** 63:12 100:10 **stop** 114:3 118:4 143:10 **straight** 89:11 185:8 **strainer** 54:3 57:20 58:1 ,1 67:2,20,21 68:9,18 74:4,12 **strainers** 58:19,20 58:21 **streamlined** 27:19 **strongly** 63:8 **struggle** 63:15 ,18 63:21 **struggled** 59:11 66:18 **stuff** 9:4 69:18 87:7 93:5 142:2 167:18 170:6 173:6 186:20 **style** 84:19 **styles** 84:20 **subject** 48:21 49:2 49:11 158:2 **submerged** 55:13 55:18 153:6 **submersible** 25:15 49:13 55:19 86:15 101:9 103:7 ,8,12 103:15 ,16,21 ,22 104:6,7 113:12 147:13 149:11 ,13 149:13 ,14 150:7 150:11 151:6,12 153:1 ,11 ,16 157:21 158:2,6,8 158:11 159:10,14 160:15 161:6,10 161:12,15 162:2,6 162:7 **submersibles** 86:14 **submit** 10:5 61:11 93:9 140:21 **submitted** 121:11 164:7 **submitting** 18:17 **subsequent** 49:7 51:5 79:20 130:11 **subsequently** 14:15 16:17 18:8 52:10 **substantive** 171:21 **subsumed** 27:8 117:19 **Subway** 170:2 **suction** 49:14,14 50:18 51:3 52:2,9 52:10,11 ,12,13 53:2,8,9,20,21 54:9 62:10 66:6 69:5 73:11 74:1 74:14 **sufficient** 11:3 87:17 143:20 194:12 **sufficiently** 77:3 **suggest** 135:17 170:1 205:17 207:21 **suggested** 37:13 **suggestion** 65:18 86:1 90:6 **suggestions** 73:20 77:19 90:7 99:16 115:13 136:11 140:21 **summary** 13:12 184:20 185:9 **supplement** 179:13 **supplied** 105:3 138:11 **supplies** 137:1 **supply** 53:13 72:10 73:14 129:15 133:9,15 134:5 ,13

134:15 ,17 135:16 144:3 ,5 152:2 157:5 **support** 10:20 73:14 93:18 **supported** 53:13 61:1 ,14 62:6 **supportive** 131:5 ,7 **supposed** 35:7 183:4 **sure** 9:7 12:20 16:11 31:8 32:1 ,4 50:3 ,7 51:11 53:5 57:20 58:4 62:9 66:2 69:15 72:1 72:15 85:22 87:11 88:1 ,20 90:5 105:2,17 122:20 125:11 ,22 126:10 129:3 136:9 146:1 148:18 152:14 159:8 162:5 170:5 171:10,10 174:1 ,3 174:8 ,10 206:15 **surface** 152:22 163:1 **survey** 158:11 159:6 161:18 198:5 **surveys** 199:11 **suspended** 55:7 **SW** 1:8 **switch** 95:18 **switched** 100:1 **system** 44:5 61:2 68:8 96:20 97:6 102:9,9,12,18 182:3 ,6,19,22 183:1 ,5 ,14,17 184:13 **T T**  171:1 **table** 21:6 38:22 45:2 98:13 104:13 104:13 106:20 147:14 153:18 154:2,15 155:8 156:7 157:22 158:1 ,6,10,18 159:2,3 ,18 160:5 161:8 173:11 ,13 201:4 **tables** 160:19 **TACO** 2:18 ,19 6:11Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 230 **take** 4:3 8:9,15 13:10 25:22 40:10 44:2 56:9 66:15 90:13 ,14,17 91:4 107:13 108:21 124:13 127:8 142:15 162:15 165:5 167:5 170:7 171:4,15 173:9 181:9,17 **taken** 91:3 110:6 114:19 170:9 201:19 203:12 **takes** 79:9 90:21 117:14 **talk** 4:20 17:2,15 39:17 49:8 59:14 60:5 110:13 118:1 129:20,22 130:11 137:13 138:9 142:2 146:11 165:9 167:14 180:14 188:6,11 198:22,22 **talked** 87:14 157:11 172:9 186:15 198:20 199:4 207:1 **talking** 5:3 15:1 37:22 38:19 43:19 43:22 69:14 70:16 87:4,6,10 105:2 135:11 148:6 201:2 202:20 203:12 **task** 67:7 **team** 155:6 163:1 **technical** 154:21 155:6 173:15 ,17 **technically** 60:8 **technologies** 98:14 99:14 139:7 ,11 **Technology** 2:11 6:22 **teed** 155:19 **telephones** 9:20 **tell** 57:13 63:20 64:22 **temperature** 83:19 84:13 121:15 ,18 121:20 153:2,7 **ten** 45:18 130:18 **term** 5:5 10:21 15:10,11 ,16,18 16:5 26:17 35:8 36:8 52:19 54:22 65:3 ,3 78:7 105:1

105:18 193:1 204:1 **terminology** 53:22 77:17 85:1 132:7 **terms** 13:16 15:9 16:13 ,15 36:3 38:11 61:13 62:20 66:2 85:18 95:2 96:5 106:3 117:9 117:20 128:12 203:17 **test** 1:3 4:6,17 ,21 8:11 11:8 14:2,4 14:12,21 15:19 16:15 17:8 ,13 ,18 18:10 19:1 24:2 27:4,4 29:2 31:17 33:11 ,12 35:19 37:1 ,1 ,4,5 41:18 43:14,21 44:9 45:16 48:14,22 49:3 ,4,17 50:2,6 64:12 71:20 73:8 76:13 77:5 ,21 ,21 78:7 ,18 83:16 85:9,10 89:8 94:3 94:6,11 ,13 ,20 95:3 ,13 96:5 99:6 99:18 ,19 100:5 ,9 100:11 ,15 ,16,18 102:2 103:11 104:2 105:13 106:22 110:22 111:12,19 112:18 120:19 121:7 ,12 121:16,17 ,19 123:20 124:11 ,16 125:6,14 127:21 128:18 ,20,22 129:4 130:4 131:9 131:19 132:12 133:3 ,19,19 134:21 135:3 136:1 139:3 140:9 140:14,18 141:8 141:15 ,16 142:15 143:3 144:9 145:22 146:2 147:11 154:7 157:9,10 160:20 160:22 161:1 ,4,5 161:13 ,15 ,17 166:4 175:8 177:11 ,14,19,20 178:2,12 179:22 180:7 ,17 ,20 183:4

183:10 184:21 185:9,10,17 187:17 ,20 188:12 189:8 ,13 194:1 ,3 194:20 195:22 196:2,5 ,7 ,10 197:15 ,22 198:2,8 198:13 ,16,22 199:1 200:9,10,22 205:19 206:17 ,20 **tested** 26:6 35:4 101:9,17 103:17 104:13 111:3 112:16,22 114:16 123:7 128:21 132:10 133:2 177:3 ,18 178:5 182:15 ,20 185:1 190:12 195:6 **tester** 123:1 **testing** 4:18 25:18 27:9 41:6 84:3 94:21 100:22 103:8 ,9,12 114:9 120:6,19 121:15 121:20 125:11 ,14 125:17 127:5 134:15 138:19 139:18 142:12 143:13 145:21 147:18 157:11 ,13 161:6 176:17 177:14 178:9,15 178:16 180:11 182:1 183:7 185:22 194:11 196:11 **testing-based** 8:13 100:6,7 102:17 ,21 103:7 ,14 104:9 110:16,21 112:15 117:10 135:22 143:16 146:16 147:16,19 166:19 176:8 179:18 180:13 ,14 184:20 184:22 185:10 **tests** 199:13 **text** 20:18 46:10 50:16 53:5 120:5 148:20 **thank** 6:3 ,9 10:16 12:5 ,7 ,13 19:13 20:4 22:8 ,13 23:1 42:1 57:4,15 58:7 59:6 61:10 63:1

66:21 67:13 72:7 76:6 80:5 ,20 86:9 98:4 104:22 107:6 110:7 119:6 120:1 126:14 127:16 133:4 148:17 157:19 163:13 178:20 191:12 193:2 195:11 ,12 199:7 **thanks** 5:11 7:19 17:5 23:2 46:13 76:8 115:17 116:16 119:8 128:16 157:17 ,17 178:21 192:15 202:17 208:1 **thereof** 24:20 **thing** 19:5 27:5 28:19 35:2 51:19 59:21 67:2 69:15 131:12 139:17 141:6 157:2 167:15 188:5 198:11 200:19 **things** 5:2 62:8 67:10 70:13 71:16 123:2 131:9 153:2 165:18 188:3 ,13 188:22 191:1 198:14 201:20 203:11 207:10,17 207:17 **think** 13:18 15:22 17:1 29:22 31:3 32:10,13 33:12 34:16,21 36:12 39:5 ,6,7 ,11 40:11 41:19 43:17 44:11 45:1 56:10 57:2 59:9,13 60:3 62:13 ,18 63:15 64:6 65:22 66:1 68:10,12,17 71:3 71:17 72:14 74:19 74:22 77:8 82:4 90:2,19 93:7 99:5 99:12 107:6 110:5 116:1 124:9 125:4 125:12,16 127:2 131:7 136:12,19 140:17 ,21 155:11 155:14,18 156:8 157:15 164:13 168:3 173:3 ,22 174:17 179:20

180:10 187:14 188:22 189:15 ,16 190:20 191:8 ,16 193:3 197:18 ,20 197:22 198:2,5 ,7 198:9,11 ,18 199:8 199:15 201:19 202:9,14 203:10 203:11 ,14,16 205:3 ,3 ,18 206:8 206:12 207:18 **thinking** 42:21 65:14 71:20 87:1 171:18 186:7 199:12,12 **third** 54:2 109:20 109:20,20 128:21 139:3 140:13 159:18 198:12,16 **thought** 19:7 36:6 36:13 38:19 77:2 110:8 **thoughtful** 110:5 ,9 **thoughts** 58:8 **thousand** 200:4 **three** 8:1 47:6,9 54:1 94:16 109:19 110:22 117:19 164:22 181:9 191:7 200:21 **threshold** 89:5 **thresholds** 195:8 **throttle** 182:14 **throw** 157:2,14 **thrust** 162:16 **tied** 113:19 131:16 **tight** 22:11 **tightened** 141:13 **time** 9:10,11 ,14 13:7 20:11 21:2,3 22:11 48:2 75:15 90:8 93:5 110:13 122:6,10 123:4 128:6,7 138:11 ,15 148:7 156:8 159:4 167:9 171:6 173:11 ,13 189:4 189:11 190:11 ,15 191:6 **timely** 9:8 **timer** 96:3 **times** 165:1 **tiny** 176:15 **today** 4:8 ,20 5:3 7:21 8:19 9:8Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 231 11:10 13:6,19 14:19 15:1 ,13 16:14,19 18:10 43:22 59:1 66:21 76:14 77:5 81:5 93:8 107:17 137:2 137:17 138:13 ,20 152:19 161:2 167:9 174:11 189:17 190:14,18 192:19 195:18 196:4 197:13 201:18 **today's** 10:18 **told** 37:10 **tolerance** 122:7 183:4 **tolerances** 129:8 134:20 136:12 137:6 141:15 142:1 194:20 **tools** 190:5 192:18 192:19 193:1 **top** 66:9 147:4 148:3 **topics** 146:11 **torque** 136:6 176:20 **total** 79:4 133:22 134:7 **totally** 9:19 20:8 28:20 40:19 **Towsley** 87:15 **track** 18:19 38:10 76:3 **transcript** 9:12 87:18 88:19 208:8 **transferring** 144:8 **transition** 191:4,5 208:3 **treat** 202:22 **tried** 114:8 185:21 195:22 **trim** 28:1 ,1 ,17 29:2 29:3 ,14,19 30:11 33:22 35:5 ,12 36:16 38:2,8,9,18 39:2 40:15 ,17 44:21 ,21 45:13 ,20 45:20,21 ,22 **trimmed** 35:10,11 47:20 **trimming** 35:17 38:2 **trims** 28:9,22 29:4,6 31:10 32:11 ,12 38:16 45:18 **true** 177:10 194:16

207:2 **truly** 153:5 **try** 8:20 67:3 138:21 143:9 146:21 186:19 188:20 189:18 196:8 **trying** 9:18 28:8 56:13 59:18 61:15 62:4 64:1 67:6 71:2,4,13 ,13 ,18 72:10 82:12 128:7 129:18 132:21 141:20 167:6,20 186:14,21 195:13 **TSD** 175:6 **turbine** 25:15 49:13 **turn** 40:4 204:6 **turned** 9:15 202:15 **turning** 5:14 **two** 4:20 13:5 20:16 22:4 24:16 25:8 25:17 27:5 ,11 36:4 43:6 46:1 66:6 71:3 75:11 77:3 79:9,15 91:19 93:3 97:12 107:18 109:1 143:10 145:9 160:14,19 163:9 165:17 171:22 174:17 185:14,14 194:3 ,14,15 **two-phase** 22:19 **tying** 158:20 159:15 **type** 17:19,22 24:19 48:11 52:12 54:13 61:3 68:3 94:14 94:14 96:10,21 98:14 124:3 127:3 146:3 148:14 163:10 185:18 **types** 32:22 67:18 68:2 96:6,8 97:16 99:8 107:5 110:1 135:7 160:14 163:9 188:6 **typical** 134:21 135:3 136:22 162:22 **typically** 69:14 89:15 96:8 153:8 188:16 194:3 **U U.S**  1:1 ,6 14:7 167:15 200:22

**U.S.C** 11:12 **uh-huh** 65:13 75:5 186:17 **UL** 81:19 **ultimately** 5:5 15:11 27:7 66:19 141:11 188:10 **Umm** 157:8 **unambiguous** 57:6 57:12 59:10 74:10 74:13 89:4 **unanticipated** 11:7 **unclear** 16:11 **uncontrolled** 112:13 117:8 **underlie** 14:4 **understand** 29:21 33:18 41:8 44:3 59:16,18 70:16 87:3 105:14 125:22 126:3 ,6,8 136:20 137:4 145:17 ,22 152:15 155:2 162:5 174:5 175:14 191:5 201:22 203:13 ,20 205:4 **understanding** 85:22 106:5 ,14 139:22 163:2 **understood** 146:2 **unfortunate** 139:8 **unfortunately** 137:17 138:14 165:7 172:20 175:21 **unintended** 126:22 **unintentionally** 73:9 **unique** 53:17 61:3 69:11 78:17 128:9 **uniquely** 25:8 **unit** 24:13 35:9 **units** 24:19 43:1 193:22 194:5 **universe** 18:3 48:10 **unmute** 9:22 **unnecessarily** 50:10 **unnecessary** 125:16 **updated** 160:5 **upgrades** 196:5 201:1 **upper** 194:15 **upstream** 100:12 **USDOJ** 3:6 **use** 12:1 14:4 16:1 26:17 36:22 40:7 41:16,17 43:1 63:9 65:2 75:7 78:22 102:13 103:9 104:5 105:12,20 134:11 136:2 145:3 ,16,20 147:7 149:12 150:20 151:16 154:9 155:7 156:6 157:3 ,14 160:1 161:6 178:8 184:2 184:3 ,5 ,9 187:8 187:19 188:14 192:21 203:22 **useful** 19:8 20:2 23:2 46:14 57:2 57:19 96:4 110:6 191:21 **users** 34:3 ,5 162:1 **uses** 112:2 **utilities** 5:18 12:8 33:18 192:8 202:19 **utility** 21:15 81:22 207:19 **utilize** 64:9 138:16 146:3 151:2 178:13 **utilized** 34:1 150:11 150:13 153:5 156:2 **utilizes** 61:2 **utilizing** 150:8 **V value**  101:13 116:5 140:11 155:7 183:20 **values** 28:11 ,13 115:3 131:1 141:11 160:3 165:11 ,18 181:18 183:12 188:2,12 **variability** 99:2 194:19 195:6,6 **variable** 95:14 96:18 108:13 109:3 ,6 133:21 138:9 143:19 145:21 178:14 207:3 **variation** 25:20 141:9 152:9 **variety** 29:4 32:19 156:15 190:22

**vary** 132:12 **varying** 47:1 ,7 **verbatim** 20:14 23:13 114:6 **verification** 4:18 **verify** 141:16 **versions** 190:1 **versus** 27:9 52:20 99:10 109:3 ,11 138:4 203:3 ,15 **vertical** 25:13 ,14 49:13 55:6 86:13 160:10,13 **vertically** 55:7 **vetted** 11:2 **VFDs** 96:17 **vice-versa** 62:14 **view** 12:2 **viscous** 162:13 **VL** 31:5 35:8 120:8 184:14 194:12 **voltage** 133:22 134:4,6 135:6,8 135:10 136:22 140:4 144:1 200:3 **volume** 79:5 **voluntarily** 34:6,18 34:19 36:11 40:3 41:12,16 **voluntary** 40:5 42:2 189:3 **volute** 52:6 55:1 77:1 ,11 **vote** 173:14 **voted** 16:7 83:21 **VTS** 25:10,14 55:16 84:14 86:22 158:7 163:3 **Vuppuluri** 2:16 **W W**  2:14 **walls** 137:8 **Waltner** 2:15 7:3 ,3 **want** 9:6,7 15:20 16:11 25:7 27:2 27:13 28:4,12,14 28:15 31:9 33:7 34:6 35:2 38:15 39:3 40:13 50:7 51:7 62:9,9 63:14 67:7 71:22 72:14 77:15 87:11 88:17 92:5 ,6,7 ,17 97:16 98:20 118:17Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 232 119:20 123:8 125:10,17 ,21 141:5 ,21 145:13 145:19 146:1 ,19 148:18 157:9 161:4 162:5 166:2 167:5 ,7 ,14 172:2 173:6 180:7 186:4 191:18 192:4,4,9 192:12 199:10 200:11 201:10,13 202:21 203:13 205:2 **wanted** 16:12 27:22 28:22 30:10 34:4 38:14 42:2 65:17 67:18 74:6 82:6 83:4 85:14,16 98:12 116:19 123:7 161:11 162:4 164:1 175:20 179:3 193:15 201:22 202:14 **wanting** 105:17 **warts** 203:3 **Washington** 1:9 4:10 **wasn't** 126:7 175:21 199:18 **water** 25:3 ,4 68:2,4 69:6,21 74:2,7 78:9,10,11 ,13 ,15 78:20,21 ,22 79:4 79:7 ,11 ,12,12,13 79:14,17 ,20,22 80:16,18 ,18 ,21 81:18 83:18 121:17 162:13 203:1 ,4 **way** 11:17 27:10 33:10 35:14 38:9 40:21 42:8 62:21 65:5 68:14 69:5 89:9 100:20 111:11 128:21 136:9 157:12 158:10 164:3 165:18 169:6 187:15 188:16 192:11 201:8 ,15 **ways** 48:12 68:11 71:3 78:1 125:9 125:16 201:5 **we'll** 5:2 8:9 20:20 25:15 49:8 51:18 60:4 73:2 74:21

77:11 79:20 85:7 90:6,17 ,18 91:1 94:21 99:5 ,10 100:7 106:5 114:3 114:4 118:1 128:11 130:10 147:14 154:18 155:10 157:14 160:4 169:6 170:4 170:7 175:12 177:21 187:5 191:10 198:22 199:1 200:11 **we're** 4:4 5:10,12 12:17 13:2,13 15:1 16:18 ,19 17:7 18:10 19:14 22:11 24:9 25:20 39:7 41:1 ,4,5 ,6 42:12 43:11 ,13 ,22 44:2 47:15 48:8 51:4,9 53:4,7 58:22 61:22 62:19 63:12 66:14 69:14 69:16 70:19 71:3 71:13 ,18 ,20 73:8 73:10 74:22 76:8 76:21 78:2 80:22 83:4,8,9,14 87:4 88:20 90:10,16 91:5 92:20 93:1 ,6 93:12 100:21 104:2 107:13 108:9 110:13 ,13 111:8 112:10 113:7 116:14 119:5 120:1 ,3 ,7 122:11 ,15 125:20 129:12,22 131:7 131:13 ,16 137:15 140:6,15 ,18 ,19 141:4 142:12,22 143:3 ,6,8 144:9 146:8 ,10,10,18 148:6 149:12 154:1 155:9,19,22 157:18 159:1 160:21 167:7 168:15 ,16 169:11 169:17 171:3 175:16 179:1 ,14 179:16,17 183:3 ,3 186:14,20,21 ,22 189:17 193:13 195:13 201:2,6 202:20 203:12

204:1 205:4,4,5 206:16 207:1 ,7 208:2,12 **we've** 13:18 15:13 15:13 16:4 33:9 37:1 39:5 ,16 40:11 44:8 47:16 47:22 57:18 58:4 64:15 ,16,16 73:2 73:17 74:16,19 90:15 100:1 107:17 108:3 118:21 130:1 131:8 139:18 143:1 147:2 156:1 158:14 159:22 163:3 166:21 168:13 169:22 171:4 196:3 197:13 200:6 208:7 **wear** 90:19 **weary** 155:22 **web** 9:19 10:4 **webinar** 9:17 92:11 92:12 **Wednesday** 1:12 **week** 58:16 191:9 **weeks** 66:16,17 **weight** 181:8 **weighted** 108:4,6,14 108:15 109:18 ,21 112:14 113:2 117:11 **weighting** 109:17 **Weintraub** 3:2 7:10 7:10 206:11 **welcome** 4:5 ,19 5:10 7:20 9:17 13:6 16:9 19:19 22:10 66:20 177:6 **welcoming** 4:13 **went** 66:16 110:4 **weren't** 15:2 69:1 81:5 127:5 **wet** 160:17 ,19 **whichever** 45:11 194:21 **whoever's** 125:14 127:11 **Widder** 2:6 7:13 ,13 17:3 ,4 19:14,18 20:4 21:18 ,21 22:6,8 23:5 24:8 24:11 26:10,14 28:19 29:20 31:14

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180:17 185:1 **wish** 10:2,16,18 12:15 33:2 **wondering** 98:20 **word** 124:13 **wording** 5:8 22:3 56:7 132:19 191:10 **words** 41:14 69:20 88:11 185:11 **wordy** 53:3 **work** 12:10 13:19 59:20 72:3 74:17 110:4 127:14 141:12 173:7 190:8 201:21 206:1 207:10 **working** 5:4 10:17 10:20 11:3 12:11 13:20 14:20 15:3 15:5 ,7 ,21 17:10 17:21 18:8 19:3 19:22 20:15 21:12 23:7 ,14 31:20 49:8 ,20 54:3 ,17 56:5 72:9 73:6 74:6,11 76:14 78:6,15 79:10,11 80:3 81:19,20 82:9 83:22 84:21 85:5 87:14 94:5 95:4 101:10 102:7 107:16 108:12 109:2,19 110:9 114:6 120:20 130:3 143:3 144:19 145:6,8 149:5 154:17 163:22 166:22 167:19 182:5 ,8 199:4 **works** 14:17 47:19 114:3 128:10 142:21 187:16 188:16 **worry** 87:19,21 200:6 **worse** 205:10 **worthy** 198:7 **wouldn't** 40:17 95:18 ,19 97:5 ,18 102:16,18 107:3 121:13 ,21 125:6,7 152:1 178:16 190:6Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509 Page 233 **writing** 75:22 **written** 9:3 ,5 10:5 16:1 ,19 18:17 22:13 32:5 56:8 59:7 72:19 83:3 93:9 125:5 ,21 126:17 ,21 127:15 165:6 166:17 187:5 193:4 199:2 **wrong** 206:10 **wrote** 124:14 **X Xerox**  91:10 **Xylem** 2:13 ,14 6:13 6:17 32:7 58:11 70:12 80:1 **Y ya**  131:11 **yeah** 26:10 30:17 32:16,19 51:14 59:19 60:18 62:3 62:4 65:18 66:22 68:19 75:5 ,20 76:5 80:21 82:20 83:6 87:10 97:22 103:6 118:5 ,8,12 126:2 127:13 136:15 137:10 141:5 148:12 151:21 166:16 169:15 178:22 186:4,5 199:10 203:22 204:11 206:22 **year** 16:17 ,22 **years** 142:4 191:7 ,7 **yep** 60:17 80:7 98:1 103:4 128:14 148:11 152:10,13 154:18 163:2 167:22 181:13 205:18 **yield** 176:11 **Z 0**  **0.01** 131:2 **0.25** 79:2 **0.95** 115:3 **0.985** 115:3 **1 1**  20:16 84:8 132:20 132:21 134:12 150:18 ,22 155:8 159:11 **1,000** 72:4 **1,782** 133:1 **1,800** 85:6 131:18 132:18 ,22 **1.0** 195:1 **1.1** 194:17 **1.1-1.2-2014** 57:1 **1.15** 151:18 **1.4** 150:19,20,21 151:2,3 **1:15** 170:4,8 **1:27** 171:2 **10** 79:7 84:13 122:4 122:19 123:16 126:10 142:3 154:3 158:18 159:18 182:21 **10:30** 82:5 **10:45** 90:17 **100** 37:2,5 ,11 109:5 109:7 112:17 113:2 130:18 133:1 144:20 159:12 164:5 182:12 200:4 **1000** 1:8 **11:00** 90:18 91:2 **110** 109:5 112:17 113:2 115:3 130:15 144:20 165:8 **112** 137:21 **12** 63:5 155:8 **12-10** 155:8 **12:30** 169:18 **120** 84:13 113:14,19 119:15 144:20 150:1 ,4 151:6,20 **1210** 134:8 ,12 137:22 145:15 **1212** 163:11 **13** 75:9 **13th** 14:13 **14** 75:9 **15** 90:18 **15th** 16:21 **17** 75:9 **17639F** 81:15 **180** 187:21 189:4 190:4 **18th** 10:21 **2 2**  23:15 56:18 84:21

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# TRANSCRIPTION CERTIFICATE



# As a professional transcriber, I certify that the attached document(s) are, to the best of my abilities, an accurate transcription of audio recordings provided to the company, given the quality of the provided audio recording(s), and that I have no financial or other interest in the proceedings to which they pertain.

TRANSCRIBER