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## r UNITED STATES OF AMERICA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION OFFICE OF HEARINGS

IN THE MATTER OF: AERO TECH, LLC Respondent
Thursday, September 22, 2016 FDMS No. FAA-2016-4270 1

The teleconference convened, pursuant to notice, at 1:00 p.m. BEFORE: THE HONORABLE DOUGLAS M. RAWALD, U.S. Administrative Law Judge

(202) 234-4433 

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NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433APPEARANCES:
On Behalf of the Complainant: KYLE LOMAZOW, ESQ. of: Office of the Regional Counsel FAA Northwest Mountain Region 1601 Lind Ave. SW, ANM-7 Renton, Washington 98057 425-227-1847 kyle.lomazow@faa.gov
On Behalf of the Respondent: STEPHEN DOERR, ESQ. of: DOERR & KNUDSON, PA 212 West First Street Portales, New Mexico 88130 575-359-1289 steve@yucca.net
Also Present: Jackie Booker, Attorney Advisor

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 2

(202) 234-44333

1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 12:58 p.m. 3 JUDGE RAWALD : This is a pre-hearing 4 conference in the case of Aero Tech, Docket 5 Number FAA-2016-4270. 6 Today's date is September 22nd, 2016. 7 This is Administrative Law Judge Doug 8 Rawald. 9 I'm joined on the call by Government 10 Counsel, Kyle Lomazow and Respondent's Counsel, 11 Stephen Doerr. 12 I also have with me in my office an 13 attorney advisor, Jackie Booker. 14 Turn first to the issue of discovery 15 and I understand you folks say that discovery 16 will be done by March 3rd, is that right, Mr. 17 Lomazow? 18 MR. LOMAZOW: That is correct and I, 19 actually, Mr. Doerr served discovery, his first 20 interrogatory request on me last week. I think 21 he sent it by email and certified mail. 22 And, we did discuss whether I

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44334 1 broached the idea with Mr. Doerr whether we, you 2 know, can just do it by email. But, we both 3 indicated we weren't sure, you know, about your 4 procedure, if that was something that would be 5 okay with you. So, we could discuss that today. 6 JUDGE RAWALD : Well, as far as 7 discovery goes, I don't need to be involved at 8 all unless there's 9 MR. LOMAZOW: Okay. 10 JUDGE RAWALD: a dispute. You 11 folks can navigate it however you think is best 12 between the two of you. I don't want to get 13 involved. 14 But, if there's a problem, a breakdown 15 of some sort and you want to file a motion, we 16 can talk about it in a few minutes. That's when 17 I become involved. Otherwise, I don't need to 18 know about the interrogatories at all. I don't 19 particularly find a need to get involved in that. 20 MR. LOMAZOW: Okay, sounds good to me. 21 JUDGE RAWALD : Okay. So, March 3rd 22 still works for you, Mr. Lomazow?

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44335

1 MR. LOMAZOW: March-- in terms of, is 2 that discovery is that the 3 JUDGE RAWALD: As a discovery 4 deadline. 5 MR. LOMAZOW: Yes, I mean, the only 6 thing is, I'll throw this out there, I'm going to 7 be out of the office between February

-- starting 8 February and returning in April. So, I could 9 certainly have my end of discovery concluded by 10 then. 11 But, you know, if Mr. Doerr serves 12 something on me in that time period, that could 13 be problematic. 14 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Mr. Doerr, 15 hearing that, do you wish to push the discovery 16 date out a little bit? 17 MR. DOERR: Yes, I would, thank you, 18 Judge. I'd like to push it out far enough that 19 if something does come up, Mr. Lomazow would be 20 available to respond. So, if we could push it 21 out beyond March 3rd to some time after when Mr. 22 Lomazow gets back, I think that would work.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202)234-44336

1 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 2 MR. LOMAZOW: And, yes, and I should 3 be back about mid-April, so I would say any time 4 from April 15th on should be fine. 5 JUDGE RAWALD: Well, how about we say 6 May 1st then? So, that'll give you as much time 7 to get back in the office and get yourself 8 acclimated before we close discovery. 9 MR. LOMAZOW: That's perfect, Judge. 10 Thank you. 11 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 12 And, then, with that understanding, it 13 seems to me as the logical thing to do for any 14 discovery motions would be to give folks a couple 15 weeks after the close of discovery to say, oh, 16 there's more stuff I want the Government didn't 17 give me or the Respondent didn't give me, so, I'm 18 going to file those motions. 19 So, if we were to say May

-- let me 20 look at the calendar here

-- May 15th as the date 21 for discovery motions, does that work for you, 22 Mr. Lomazow?

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44337

1 MR. LOMAZOW: Yes, it would. 2 JUDGE RAWALD : Okay, and you, Mr. 3 Doerr? 4 MR. DOERR: That works fine, Judge. 5 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 6 And, then, anything that's not 7 discovery related, pre-hearing motions, a motion 8 for decision or a motion in limine regarding 9 witness testimony or anything else, you folks had 10 recommended two weeks after the discovery motion 11 deadline. So, that would put us at, it looks 12 like, May 29th. Is that okay with you, Mr. 13 Doerr? 14 MR. DOERR: Yes, Monday, May 29th will 15 be fine, Judge. 16 JUDGE RAWALD : Okay. And, Mr. 17 Lomazow? 18 MR. LOMAZOW: Yes, that works fine for 19 me as well. 20 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 21 And, then, for all motion filings, the 22 party that receives it would have 30 days to

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202)234-44338 1 respond from the date that it was filed. So, if 2 Mr. Doerr filed a motion early, you have 30 days 3 from the date that it was filed, Mr. Lomazow. 4 Now, if you were out of the office and 5 you needed more time because of that, you could, 6 of course, file an extension and I'm sure Mr. 7 Doerr would not oppose that during that period 8 when you're out of the office. 9 But, just keep that in mind, that's 10 the general rule here. So, that way, I can deal 11 with things as they roll in rather than waiting 12 until the very end to deal with them all at one 13 time. 14 MR. LOMAZOW: Yes, Judge, that sounds 15 reasonable to me. 16 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, Mr. Doerr? 17 MR. DOERR: Yes, that sounds good, 18 Judge. 19 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 20 So, given all those dates, it looks 21 like we may have motions coming in as late as the 22 end of June. So, it seems like July would be the

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISlANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-44339 1 appropriate date to reserve for a possible motion 2 hearing. Let me look at the calendar here. 3 We want to skip that week with 4th of 4 July, so would the week of July lOth, is that 5 open on folks calendar if we reserve July lOth as 6 the day for motion arguments if anybody requests 7 them to have arguments on a motion? 8 MR. LOMAZOW: Judge, I don't have 9 anything on July lOth, that's acceptable. 10 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 11 MR. DOERR: That's acceptable for me, 12 too, I'm sorry. 13 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Wonderful, and 14 I should let

-- I'll do better asking individual 15 people so the court reporter can know who's 16 talking. 17 So, okay, so, you both agree to that. 18 So, we'll both

-- everyone will hold July lOth 19 open on their calendars as a possible date for 20 motion arguments if somebody requests them. And, 21 if somebody does, then I '11 put on the order 22 documenting the time and date for when we'll have

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234-443310
1 that phone call for the motions argument. 2 And, if nobody requests argument, then 3 we'11 just let that fall by the wayside. 4 So, that puts us in July for the 5 motions. That means that August would probably 6 be the appropriate month to then have our hearing 7 so I can have time after argument to issue any 8 opinions so you folks can digest them and then we 9 can go ahead and have the actual hearing. 10 So, is there a week or time in August 11 that works best for folks here? 12 MR. DOERR: Judge, this is Steve 13 Doerr, for the record. 14 The only concern I have is my clients 15 have, for the last several years, they've got 16 business interests and they usually leave and 17 they're up in Alaska the last

-- latter part of 18 August. so, I would prefer the first week or the 19 second week at the very latest of August for a 20 hearing. 21 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. And, frankly, 22 New Mexico is pretty unpleasant I think

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443311 1 comparatively in August compared to other months, 2 so I don't mind holding off until September for 3 that purpose alone. But, I'm not sure how it is 4 in Clovis, though. I remember from my Air Force 5 days, that it was -- it gets pretty hot. 6 So, will September work for your 7 client? 8 MR. DOERR: No, unfortunately, my 9 client goes to Alaska and they're up there 10 usually until, August until it's just they can't 11 fly out again, which is probably late December. 12 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, so December, 13 fine. Okay. So, you really want to have it in 14 early August before they leave? 15 MR. DOERR: Yes, Judge. 16 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So, August

-- 17 how about August 7th through 11th for you, Mr. 18 Lomazow, how's that? 19 MR. LOMAZOW: That is fine. Yes, my 20 schedule in August as of right now is completely 21 wide open. 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. DOERR: I have a meeting

-- I

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443312 1 represent governmental entities and I have the 2 8th tied up for those, but any other day during 3 that week is fine. 4 JUDGE RAWALD : Mr. Doerr, what's the 5 week that your clients leave town for the

-- to 6 go to Alaska, when does that happen? 7 MR. DOERR: I believe this week

-- 8 this year, Judge, they left August 28th. 9 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, so towards the 10 end of the month. 11 MR. DOERR: Yes. 12 JUDGE RAWALD: What about

-- so, that 13 meeting you have on the 8th, is that a local 14 meeting there in New Mexico or is that 15 MR. DOERR: Yes, that's a local 16 meeting in Clovis. 17 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So, you'd be 18 able to get back to be at the hearing then the 19 week later that week on the 9th through the 20 11th? 21 MR. DOERR: Yes, that would work if we 22 had it the 9th, lOth or 11th.

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443313

1 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Let's do that, 2 let's have the parties all reserve on their 3 calendars August 9th through 11th for a possible 4 hearing in this case. Does that still work for 5 you, Mr. Lomazow? 6 MR. LOMAZOW: That works for me, yes, 7 Judge. 8 JUDGE RAWALD: I '11 just suffer my 9 weather-related concerns. 10 I'm typing in my calendar here while 11 we're talking because I do want to make sure I 12 get all this down. Hold on one moment. 13 Okay, and, as to another discovery14 related or litigation schedule-related issues. 15 I typically require both sides to 16 exchange witness and evidence lists at least 30 17 days before the hearing. Does that work for both 18 parties? Mr. Lomazow? 19 20 21 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. LOMAZOW: That works for me. JUDGE RAWALD: Mr. Doerr? MR. DOERR: Yes, it does, Judge. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443314

1 And, Mr. Doerr, typically, I ask at 2 least 30 days, but possibly longer, depending on 3 how the Respondent feels about it, for submission 4 of any subpoenas before the hearing. Is 30 days 5 enough time for you to get my response to any 6 subpoenas and then go ahead and get those started 7 or do you want to submit them earlier than that, 8 30 days before the hearing? 9 MR. DOERR: If you don't have any 10 objection to me submitting them earlier, I will 11 probably have everybody identified and would like 12 to get the subpoenas out as early as possible. 13 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So, let's say in 14 August you're requesting no later than 60 days 15 before the hearing so we can get them moving 16 then. How about that? 17 Understand, that if you submit them 18 early, I'll go ahead I'11 deal with them 19 earlier. 20 And, both parties should provide me an 21 electronic version of all the evidence either on 22 CD or DVD 30 days before the hearing. That way,

(202) 234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443315 1 it's less paper, it's cheaper for you to send to 2 me and also I have it so I can travel with it to 3 bring to the actual site of the hearing. Does 4 that work for you, Mr. Lomazow? 5 MR. LOMAZOW: That does, thank you, 6 Judge. 7 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Mr. Doerr? 8 MR. DOERR: Yes, it does, thank you. 9 JUDGE RAWALD: And, Mr. Lomazow, I 10 said this before, but, for you, Mr. Doerr, my 11 practice is to allow or to encourage argument at 12 the hearing on the actual case. 13 But, if either party wishes to brief 14 an issue after the hearing, of course, I'll allow 15 you to do that. But, I don't generally require 16 that. 17 I like to have the verbal interchange 18 on the record so we can talk about the issues and 19 you can see where my brain is on things. 20 So, if something comes up that is more 21 difficult or requires some legal research, I'd 22 want to give you the opportunity to say, hey,

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSAND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443316 1 Judge, I want to go ahead and look at this some 2 more and submit a brief and then we'll go ahead 3 and discuss a schedule for that. Okay? 4 MR. DOERR: That's fine, Judge. 5 JUDGE RAWALD: Mr. Doerr? Okay, good. 6 And, Mr. Lomazow, are you fine with 7 that still? 8 MR. LOMAZOW: Yes, Judge, that's fine 9 with me, Judge, yes. 10 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 11 Let's turn this to -- I only had one 12 substantive issue that I want to discuss while 13 we're on the phone and that was, Mr. Doerr, about 14 your affirmative defenses. 15 You have raised, it looks like five 16 affirmative defenses. Most of them seem pretty 17 general in nature. Are you planning on still 18 carrying forth on all five of those or have some 19 of them fallen by the wayside as you've 20 approached this case? 21 MR. DOERR: Well, Judge, it depends on 22 the responses to discovery, the witnesses that

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443317 1 they depose. 2 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So, you've got 3 some think about then on this? Okay. 4 Anything you wish to discuss with me, 5 Mr. Doerr, while we're on the phone? 6 MR. DOERR: No, I think you've 7 answered all of my questions and concerns, Your 8 Honor, about what we need to provide you with and 9 what documents I should forward to you. 10 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 11 MR. DOERR: All of my discovery 12 issues, I think you've addressed all those as 13 well. I don't think I have anything else. 14 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 15 And, Mr. Lomazow, do you have anything 16 else you want to discuss with me? Mr. Lomazow? 17 It appears Mr. Lomazow has had a little accident 18 with his phone. Hopefully, he'll call back in in 19 a moment. 20 Mr. Doerr, have you had any settlement 21 discussions with Mr. Lomazow? 22 MR.

(202) 234-4433 DOERR: Yes,

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 we have had

(202)234-443318 1 settlement discussion. We even exchanged emails 2 yesterday regarding our position on settlement. 3 It doesn't look like any -- is that Mr. Lomazow 4 coming back in? 5 MR. LOMAZOW: That is me, I'm sorry, 6 I'm actually calling back from Austin, but, yes, 7 I'm sorry about that. 8 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay, while you were 9 gone, I simply asked Mr. Doerr if he had had any 10 settlement discussion with you and relayed that 11 he has had some. 12 And, so, if you can continue, Mr. 13 Doerr? 14 MR. DOERR: Yes, we've had some 15 discussion and I think, based on the 16 correspondence yesterday, we're probably at an 17 impasse as far as further settlement, Judge. 18 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 19 And, Mr. Lomazow, is that your belief 20 as well? 21 22 well, yes.

(202) 234-4433 MR. LOMAZOW: That is my belief as

NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443319

1 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Well, I'll be 2 hopeful that discovery will encourage both sides 3 to come together at a meeting of the minds. I do 4 think settlement's always preferred than me 5 imposing a result on folks. But, if you can't, 6 obviously, we'll have a hearing there in August 7 or on a date that works. 8 I will

-- because August is the date 9 that I want to have the hearing, but if you 10 figure out something, we'll be open as well. 11 Okay. So, I do encourage parties to 12 keep talking about settlement. 13 Mr. Lomazow, before when you were off, 14 I asked if there is anything else you wanted to 15 discuss and that's why we knew you were not there 16 anymore. Is there anything else you want to 17 discuss before we go off the record? 18 MR. LOMAZOW: No, Judge, I think as of 19 now, we've covered it all. So, I have no further 20 issues to raise. 21 22

(202) 234-4433 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. So, my practice is to issue a preNEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443320 1 hearing conference report the day after a 2 hearing, like a conference like this so folks 3 know what we agreed to and what was described. 4 So, I'll go ahead and do that. You folks should 5 both be receiving it. 6 Mr. Doerr, we've been sending things 7 to your client as well. My plan is to no longer 8 do that, just send it to you as the 9 representative of your client. That's okay with 10 you? 11 MR. DOERR: Yes, it is. 12 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 13 And, we do have fax numbers for both 14 your offices, so we'll be faxing it to you 15 tomorrow so you should be receiving that report 16 at that time. 17 Okay, one last chance, Mr. Doerr, 18 anything else you want to discuss? 19 20 21 22

(202) 234-4433 MR. DOERR: Nothing further, Judge. JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. Mr. Lomazow? MR. LOMAZOW: Nothing further, Judge.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-443321

1 JUDGE RAWALD: Okay. 2 At this time, we'll go ahead and go 3 off the record. Thank you both for appearing 4 today. 5 MR. DOERR: Thanks, Judge. 6 MR. LOMAZOW: Thank you. 7 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 8 went off the record at 1:11 p.m.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

(202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLANDAVE., NW. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005·3701 (202) 234-4433__I\_

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-------·- Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc. (202) 234-4433 Washington DC www.nealrgross.com25 C E R T I F I C A T E

This is to certify that the foregoing transcript

In the matter of: Aero Tech LLC

Before: US DOT/OH

Date: 09-22-16

Place: teleconference

was duly recorded and accurately transcribed under my direction; further, that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

Court Reporter

(202)234-4433 NEALR. GROSS COURTREPORTERSANDTRANSCRIBERS 1323RHODE ISLANDAVE., N.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com