Date: April 29, 2015

Case: Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

Phone: 202-347-3700

Fax: 202-737-3638

Email: info@acefederal.com

Internet: www.acefederal.com
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 1

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY PUBLIC MEETING 

 COMMERCIAL AND INDUSTRIAL PUMPS 

 TEST PROCEDURES MEETING 

 U.S. Department of Energy 

 Forrestal Building, Room 6E-066 

 1000 Independence Avenue, SW 

 Washington, DC 20585 

 9:03 a.m. 

 Wednesday, April 29, 2015 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 2

1 Appearances for Department of Energy Meeting 

2

3 Doug Brookman, Public Solutions, Inc., 

4 John Cymbalsky, DOE 

5 Ashley Armstrong, DOE 

6 Sarah Widder, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory 

7 Albert F. Huber, Patterson Pumps 

8 Jiangang Hu, Rockwell Automation 

9 Joanna Mauer, Appliance Standards Awareness Project 

10 Mark Menzer, Danfoss 

11 Brent Ross, Armstrong Fluid Technology 

12 Aniruddh Roy, Goodman Manufacturing Company, L.P. 

13 Paul Ruzicka, Xylem 

14 Mark W. Handzel, Xylem 

15 Meg Waltner, NRDC 

16 Prem Vuppuluri, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory 

17 Mary Anderson, Pacific Gas and Electric Company 

18 Robert R. Barbour, TACO, INC. 

19 Mark J. Chaffee, TACO, INC. 

20 Alex Boesenberg, NEMA 

21 Rob Boteler, Nidec Motor Corporation 

22 Daniel E. Delaney, Regal Beloit America, Inc. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 3

1 Peter Gaydon, Hydraulic Institute 

2 Daniel Weintraub, Navigant Consulting 

3 Jason Lai, Navigant Consulting 

4 Alison Williams, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory 

5 Gary Fernstrom, CA IOU's 

6 Glenn Harrison, USDOJ ATR 

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 4

1 P R O C E E D I N G S 

2 (9:11 a.m.) 

3 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Please take your seats. 

4 We're going to begin. Good morning everyone, 

5 welcome. This is the Notice of Proposed Rulemaking's 

6 meeting for pumps, the test procedure, and later on 

7 this afternoon the energy conservation standards. 

8 meeting. Today is April 29th, 2015 here at the 

9 Department of Energy at the Forrestal Building in 

10 Washington, D.C. 

11 My name's Doug Brookman from Public 

12 Solutions. Nice to see you here this morning. We 

13 are going to start this morning with welcoming 

14 remarks from Ashley Armstrong. 

15 MS. ARMSTRONG: Good morning, everyone. 

16 My name is Ashley Armstrong from the Department. I 

17 oversee the test procedure development and the 

18 verification testing that the Department does through the 

19 Appliance Standards Program. We'd like to welcome 

20 you today to talk about two of our new rulemaking 

21 efforts with regards to the proposals for the test 

22 procedures and the standards for commercial and 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 5

1 industrial pumps. 

2 As you know, many of the things that we'll 

3 be talking about today were the result of a very hard 

4 group of individuals working together, to come up 

5 with a consensus on a term sheet that was ultimately 

6 given to the Department. The Department believes 

7 that the proposals that you've seen honor the intent 

8 of those negotiations, if not the wording exactly. 

9 So we look forward to getting your 

10 feedback. We welcome you to participate, and we're 

11 glad you're all here. Thanks. 

12 CHAIR BROOKMAN: We're going to proceed. 

13 Let's start with introductions as we always do. To 

14 my immediate left, and you get used to turning the 

15 microphones both on and off. Please say your name 

16 and organizational affiliation. 

17 MR. FERSTROM: I'm Gary Ferstrom, 

18 representing the California Investor-Owned Utilities, 

19 which are PG&E, the Southern California Edison 

20 Company, the San Diego Gas and Electric Company and 

21 the Southern California Gas Company. They've made 

22 the microphone cords much shorter than they used to 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 6

1 be, so speaking into the microphone is far more 

2 challenging. 

3 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, and it's good 

4 to speak directly -- get close to those microphones. 

5 That will be necessary. 

6 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler with Nidec Motor 

7 Corporation in St. Louis, chairman of the NEMA Motor 

8 Generator Section Energy Committee. 

9 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, Rob. 

10 MR. MENZER: Mark Menzer with Danfoss. 

11 MR. BARBOUR: Bob Barbour with TACO, 

12 representing HI. 

13 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel with Xylem, 

14 representing HI. 

15 MR. HUBER: Al Huber, Patterson Pump 

16 representing HI. 

17 MR. RUZICKA: Paul Ruzicka, Xylem, also 

18 representing HI. 

19 MR. GAYDON: Peter Gaydon, Hydraulic 

20 Institute. 

21 MR. ROSS: Brent Ross, Armstrong Fluid 

22 Technology. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 7

1 MS. MAUER: Joanna Mauer, Appliance 

2 Standards Awareness Project. 

3 MS. WALTNER: Meg Waltner, Natural 

4 Resources Defense Council. 

5 MR. CYMBALSKY: John Cymbalsky, DOE. 

6 MS. ARMSTRONG: Ashley Armstrong, DOE. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Let's see if that -- yes. 

8 MS. WILLIAMS: Alison Williams, Lawrence

9 Berkeley National Labs. 

10 MR. WEINTRAUB: Daniel Weintraub, 

11 Navigant. 

12 MR. LAI: Jason Lai, Navigant. 

13 MS. WIDDER: Sarah Widder, Pacific 

14 Northwest National Lab. 

15 CHAIR BROOKMAN: If you'd please just 

16 stand and say your name, please. We will have a 

17 record of the individuals present, so please stand. 

18 (Off mic introductions.) 

19 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Well thanks again. 

20 Welcome everyone. Glad to see you hear this morning. 

21 We have a lot of content here today. I'm going to do 

22 a very brief agenda review, which is in the packet 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 8

1 that you have. It's on page three and four. 

2 Immediately following this agenda review 

3 and some other brief remarks, is an opportunity for 

4 stakeholders to make opening statements, brief 

5 statements here at the outset, opening remarks about 

6 issues that matter to you, going from there directly 

7 to regulatory history and scope, then on to metrics, 

8 and then the determination of pump performance. 

9 We'll take a break mid-morning, around about eleven 

10 o'clock or so. 

11 Following on from there, still on the test 

12 procedure content, determination of driver efficiency 

13 and then directly calculation and testing-based 

14 methods, sampling plan and then burden. Our 

15 intention is to take lunch around about one o'clock. 

16 That's a little later than normal, because there's a 

17 lot of content here, and I'd like to ask for your 

18 consideration. 

19 Maybe we in our comments here today can 

20 try to keep them at a fairly high level, perhaps even 

21 a conceptual level, and not dive too awfully deep 

22 until that's absolutely necessary, because otherwise 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 9

1 there is a lot of content to get through here. And 

2 noting that the Department expects you'll be 

3 providing detailed written comments, that some of the 

4 details, the very detailed stuff can come in your 

5 written comments. 

6 Don't want to diminish anyone's capacity 

7 to comment here, but I do want to make sure we get 

8 through all this content in a timely fashion today. 

9 So I'd ask for your consideration if you would each 

10 speak one at a time, say your name for the record 

11 each time you speak. 

12 There will be a complete transcript of 

13 this meeting. If you'd be concise and share the air 

14 time so we get through all this and keep the focus 

15 here. I've turned my cell phone on silent. 

16 Please limit sidebar conversations, and 

17 webinar participants, we welcome you, and the 

18 Department of Energy is trying hard to make these 

19 meetings totally accessible to all via the web. If 

20 you would keep your telephones on mute and raise your 

21 hand with the software provided to be recognized to 

22 speak. And we then, as we unmute you, we should be 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 10

1 able to hear you in the room. You can participate in 

2 this meeting live as you wish to. 

3 And then finally, I would encourage all 

4 present, and especially those via the web, please 

5 make certain to submit your written comments to the 

6 Department as the other stakeholders here in the room 

7 are. That will conclude my remarks, and then to 

8 Ashley Armstrong. 

9 MS. ARMSTRONG: Let's do opening remarks. 

10 Let's just go ahead and do opening remarks. 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Let's do opening 

12 remarks. Opening Remarks here at the outset, 

13 comments. Al please. 

14 MR. HUBER: Al Huber, Hydraulic Institute. 

15 On behalf of the Hydraulic Institute and its members, 

16 we wish to thank the Department of Energy for 

17 allowing us to participate in the ASRAC working 

18 group, as well as today's hearing. We wish to make 

19 it clear from the outset of the hearing that we fully 

20 support the Commercial and Industrial Pumps Working 

21 Group's term sheet, dated June 18th, 2014. 

22 We would oppose any change in the scope or 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 11

1 covered product, or the energy conservation standard 

2 of PER-25. These items were clearly vetted by the 

3 working group and sufficient data and analysis has 

4 not been performed for other pumps or other 

5 conservation standards. 

6 We do, however, believe that there are 

7 some errors, unanticipated additional requirements 

8 and needed clarifications in both the test NOPR and 

9 the energy conservation standard NOPR, which we hope 

10 to address today. Those include, but are not limited 

11 to, the standard formula, page 78; data collection 

12 interval, page 97; and clarification of 42 U.S.C. 

13 6314(d), page 20. 

14 We again request the Department of Energy 

15 provide a PEI calculator for both the PEI/CL and 

16 PEI/VL, so that all calculations for PEI are 

17 performed exactly the same way by all members of the 

18 pump industry, government agencies and interested 

19 parties. The Hydraulic Institute will gladly assist 

20 the Department in the preparation of these 

21 calculators. 

22 As always, we actively promote energy efficient
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 12

1 use 

2 of the pumps we manufacture, and we view our 

3 participation in this rulemaking as evidence of our 

4 commitment. 

5 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, Al. Gary 

6 Ferstrom, do you have an opening remark. 

7 MR. FERSTROM: Thank you Doug, I did. On 

8 behalf of the California Investor-Owned Utilities, 

9 I'd like to express appreciation, as Ashley did, for 

10 the hard work that everyone contributed to the 

11 working group that led to this point. It's very much 

12 appreciated. 

13 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. Other 

14 comments here at the outset? Issues that individuals 

15 wish to bring to the fore at this point? 

16 (No response.) 

17 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Then we're going 

18 to proceed with the content in your packet. Ashley 

19 Armstrong. 

20 MS. ARMSTRONG: Sure. I'm just going to 

21 go through a couple of the beginning slides fairly 

22 quickly for those not familiar with our public 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 13

1 meetings. We put issue boxes throughout the public 

2 meeting that highlight areas that we're specifically 

3 seeking comment on. 

4 Many of those areas will correspond to 

5 issues boxes that you saw in the two proposed rules 

6 for today. However, obviously you're welcome to make 

7 comments or ask questions at any time, and we 

8 encourage you to do so. 

9 The next slide is just something for you 

10 to have to take home. This is used to make comments 

11 and the dates and the different email boxes. Just so 

12 a summary slide for reference, because obviously 

13 we're encouraged to seek comments in response to the 

14 proposals. 

15 I'm going to go through the background in 

16 terms of our statutory authority and the history of 

17 kind of how we got here relatively quickly, because 

18 I think we've all discussed that it was -- we all 

19 heard today that it was the work of some very hard 

20 individuals that were part of the working group. So 

21 just generally speaking, EPCA established the program 

22 for commercial equipment. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 14

1 It includes pumps. EPCA authorizes DOE to 

2 issue standards, test procedures and labeling for 

3 these covered equipment including pumps. 

4 Manufacturers use test procedures to underlie the 

5 representations that they are going to make public 

6 disclosures of the energy efficiency of their 

7 products when distributed in commerce in the U.S., as 

8 well as to certify to the Department compliance upon 

9 compliance date thereafter of an energy conservation 

10 standard. 

11 So next, how did we get here specifically 

12 for pumps. So currently, DOE doesn't have a test 

13 procedure or standards for pumps. On June 13th in 

14 2011, we initiated the rulemaking, within a request 

15 for information. We subsequently published a 

16 framework document that outlines some issues and how 

17 our regulatory process works. 

18 And then obviously we have heard a lot 

19 about this today. In 2013, mid-2013 we formed a 

20 working group to specifically negotiate the 

21 definitions, some aspects of the test procedure, as 

22 well as the specific standard levels for pumps, which 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 15

1 is what we're talking about today. 

2 So for those that weren't involved, this 

3 is just a highlight of the members of the working 

4 group, just so you have it, and this is just a 

5 history of what happened in the working group. There 

6 were seven open meetings. They made a lot of 

7 progress. We have all the materials from the working 

8 group sessions in our docket, in case anyone's 

9 interested in terms of how the discussions progressed 

10 and how they got to the term sheet. 

11 The term sheet is ultimately also in the 

12 docket, and referred to throughout the NOPR. What 

13 we've done today, as you'll see, where we've 

14 highlighted different issues where we might have made 

15 minor clarifications to the content coming out of the 

16 term sheet. But DOE believes in its proposal it 

17 fully reflects everything that was negotiated in the 

18 term sheet. 

19 So before we jump into the actual test 

20 procedure slides, I did just want to remind everyone 

21 on the working group's ground rules, and specifically 

22 I think it's important to highlight Section 4, which 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 16

1 is the agreement. DOE agreed to use the written 

2 statement in any recommended standard as the basis 

3 for the NOPR. 

4 We believe that's what we've done in these 

5 proposed rules, so the term sheet we do believe is 

6 fully reflected. Each party then agreed to -- that 

7 has previously not voted negatively on the final 

8 agreement agrees not to file negative comments. 

9 Obviously, we welcome clarifications and 

10 questions, where you believe that the implementation 

11 of the regulations is unclear. We want to make sure 

12 everyone is on the same page. But we just wanted to 

13 highlight some of the specific terms before we jump 

14 into the content today. 

15 So test procedure rulemaking, in terms of 

16 how we got here. We published the NOPR in March of 

17 this year. It was subsequently published in Federal 

18 Register I guess in April. We're having the public 

19 meeting today. We're accepting written comments from 

20 all parties, and we encourage any data and questions 

21 until June 15th, and we do expect to issue the final 

22 rule by the end of the year. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 17

1 So with that, I think Sarah's coming up 

2 here to talk about this, and I'll follow. 

3 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, Sarah Widder. 

4 MS. WIDDER: All right, good morning 

5 everyone. Thanks Ashley and everyone for being here. 

6 The beginning part of these slides and a lot of the 

7 content we're going to start with is actually related 

8 to the scope of the pump's test procedure, as well as 

9 the energy conservation standard, as recommended by 

10 the working group. 

11 DOE has proposed in those parallel rules 

12 that the scope of the energy conservation standard be 

13 aligned with the test procedure, and so these 

14 definitional slides are applicable to both rules, and 

15 they won't be repeated when we talk about the energy 

16 conservation standard. So just keep that in mind. 

17 So starting out, first as Ashley 

18 mentioned, EPCA authorized DOE to set test procedures 

19 and energy conservation standards for pump as a type 

20 of covered equipment, but didn't define pump. So the 

21 first step for the working group and for us in these 

22 proposed rules was defining pump as a type of covered 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 18

1 equipment. 

2 That's indicated by blue circle of this 

3 big universe of pumps in this blue circle, and you'll 

4 see that consistently throughout the presentation. 

5 They characterize as sort of the overall scope of any 

6 pumps that DOE could consider a rulemaking for in the 

7 future. It's a very broad and large definition. 

8 The working group and subsequently DOE's 

9 proposals recommended that the energy conservation 

10 standard and test procedure we're discussing today 

11 are limited to a more narrow range of equipment, and 

12 those specific definitions will be discussed later 

13 on. 

14 So here's our first request for comment. 

15 You'll notice that it's numbered corresponding to the 

16 issue numbers in the NOPR, at the back of the NOPR 

17 document. And when you're submitting written 

18 comments you could note the issue number. That makes 

19 my life in particular a lot easier to track those 

20 comments. But as mentioned, you can comment on 

21 anything. 

22 So the first request for comment is on the 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 19

1 proposal to match the scope of the test procedure and 

2 energy conservation standard, as recommended by the 

3 working group. Hearing none -- 

4 MS. ARMSTRONG: If you agree, you can also 

5 say we agree. It's a good thing. 

6 (Laughter.) 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: That's what I thought 

8 would be useful here. Basically, you're seeking 

9 confirmation that the interpretation here aligns with 

10 the expectations of the negotiators; correct? Al 

11 Huber. No comment. 

12 MR. HUBER: We do agree. 

13 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, okay, thank you. 

14 MS. WIDDER: Okay, okay. We're starting 

15 off on a good foot. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Now these bits of 

17 confirmation -- 

18 MS. WIDDER: Positive comments are always 

19 welcome. 

20 MS. ARMSTRONG: Right. 

21 CHAIR BROOKMAN: But in addition, as we 

22 had a working group and we negotiated this to an 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 20

1 actual consensus among all members, these bits of 

2 confirmation now as we press forward are useful and 

3 relevant, okay. 

4 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Thank you for that. 

5 The proposed definition discussed in the NOPR is 

6 presented here. I'll read it aloud. "Pump means 

7 equipment that is designed to move liquids, which may 

8 include entrained gases, free solids and totally 

9 dissolved solids by physical or mechanical action, 

10 and includes a bare pump and, if included by the 

11 manufacturer at the time of sale, mechanical 

12 equipment driver and controls." 

13 This definition was discussed at length in 

14 the negotiated rulemaking. It's pretty much verbatim 

15 what was agreed to in the working group as 

16 Recommendation No. 1. You'll note that there are two 

17 slight modifications. Those are indicated in blue 

18 text, and that will be consistent throughout the 

19 presentation as well. 

20 We'll note the recommendation numbers 

21 where appropriate and any modifications. Do we 

22 include that is designed for, just to indicate that 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 21

1 the pump, as covered, may not be moving liquids at 

2 that time, since it's regulated as distributed in 

3 commerce, and then also at the time of sale, just 

4 indicating again when these provisions are 

5 applicable. 

6 At the table below on the slide is a 

7 representation of the configurations that are noted 

8 in the definition. So the definition of pump was 

9 designed to cover a bare pump sold without a driver, 

10 a pump sold with a driver, or a bare pump sold with a 

11 driver and controls. This was a concept that was 

12 also discussed at length in the working group, and 

13 the justification for this was that really that all 

14 those components together are what consume energy and 

15 accomplish the utility of pumping fluids in the 

16 field. 

17 MR. RUZICKA: Sarah? 

18 MS. WIDDER: Yes. 

19 MR. RUZICKA: Paul Ruzicka. I have a 

20 comment. 

21 MS. WIDDER: Yes. 

22 MR. RUZICKA: We agree with the 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 22

1 definitions of the pump, bare pump, mechanical 

2 equipment and the controls. However, we disagree 

3 with the wording of entrained gases. Entrained gases 

4 imply two phase flow, which these machines cannot 

5 handle, and dissolved gases should be used. 

6 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Dissolved gases? 

7 MR. RUZICKA: Dissolved gases. 

8 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Thank you for that 

9 comment. If there are other detailed comments like 

10 that, we welcome them. But as Doug mentioned, if 

11 we're getting tight on time, that might be the kind 

12 of more detailed comment that's very appropriate for 

13 written comments. But thank you, that's very 

14 helpful. 

15 MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. Forgive 

16 my ignorance, but what's the difference between 

17 entrained and dissolved? 

18 MR. RUZICKA: Entrained means you actually 

19 physically have two-phase, flow. You physically have 

20 gases passing through the pump, and these pumps can't 

21 handle it. It will separate and basically cause the 

22 pump to lose prime. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 23

1 MR. FERSTROM: Okay. Thank you very much. 

2 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thanks, that's useful. I 

3 appreciate that. I recall that discussion, wherein 

4 entrained was used. Back to Sarah. 

5 MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. So relevant to 

6 the definition of pump, DOE is also proposing, as 

7 recommended by the working group, to define specific 

8 components that comprise the pump, to better describe 

9 the DOE's proposed regulations. These are bare pump, 

10 mechanical equipment, driver and control. As was 

11 already noted, some interested parties agree with 

12 these proposed definitions. They are pretty much 

13 verbatim. 

14 Again, what was proposed by the working 

15 group in Recommendation No. 2, with a slight 

16 modification regarding the definition of control. 

17 Just providing examples of what might be 

18 considered a control under this definition, and that 

19 was added to clarify that the definition of control, 

20 as presented here, is extremely broad, and includes 

21 anything that would control a driver, whereas DOE has 

22 proposed additional, more specific control 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 24

1 definitions that are applicable to how to apply the 

2 test procedure. DOE requests comment on these 

3 proposed definitions. 

4 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Any additional comments 

5 here? 

6 (No response.) 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

8 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 

9 CHAIR BROOKMAN: So we're going to move on 

10 then. 

11 MS. WIDDER: Great. So the next 

12 definition is the definition of a basic model. This 

13 is the component or the unit of equipment that DOE's 

14 regulations apply to. So I'll read the definition. 

15 This is consistent with other commercial equipment 

16 definitions, with two modifications that are specific 

17 to pumps. 

18 So this first part, basic model means all 

19 units of a given type of covered equipment. That 

20 would be pumps in this case, or class thereof, 

21 manufactured by one manufacturer having the same 

22 primary energy source, and having essentially 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 25

1 identical electrical, physical and functional or 

2 hydraulic characteristics that affect energy 

3 consumption, energy efficiency, water consumption or 

4 water efficiency. 

5 That's the general definition of a basic 

6 model. So any difference in energy consumption, you 

7 would want to represent the performance of that basic 

8 model uniquely. The two exceptions for pumps or 

9 changes to the basic model definition are for RSV and 

10 VTS pumps. Those are defined at the bottom of the 

11 slide. 

12 RSV is very long, and I'm never going to 

13 say it again. But radial split multi-stage vertical 

14 in-line diffuser casing pump, and VTS, vertical 

15 turbine submersible pump. We'll define those and 

16 additional equipment classes later on. But for those 

17 two specific proposed pump equipment classes, DOE has 

18 proposed a specific number of stages that the testing 

19 will occur at, and in this basic model definition 

20 we're providing that variation in the number of 

21 stages for those pumps, do not comprise a 

22 characteristic that would take you to a different 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 26

1 basic model. 

2 So an RSV pump with four stages, five 

3 stages, six stages, would all be rated at the 

4 proposed number of stages, and the energy consumption 

5 of all of those different stage iterations would be 

6 represented by the one tested model with the 

7 specified number of stages. A similar concept for -- 

8 MS. ARMSTRONG: Can I jump in for a 

9 second? 

10 MS. WIDDER: Yeah, go ahead. 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Ashley Armstrong. 

12 MS. ARMSTRONG: I'm going to simplify it 

13 -- 

14 MS. WIDDER: Sorry. 

15 MS. ARMSTRONG: Because I see a lot of 

16 faces kind of glossed over. So the basic model is a 

17 made-up DOE regulatory term. We use it for the 

18 ability for manufacturers to group individual models 

19 they may offer for sale into what we call a single 

20 basic model, for the purposes of defining the rating. 

21 What it allows you to do is you can group individual 

22 models, as long as they all have the same certified 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 27

1 rating. 

2 You don't want to distinguish between the 

3 different ratings in the marketplace. It reduces 

4 your test burden, because you would only have to test 

5 two of those. But it also is a risk thing, because 

6 if we find any one of those models non-compliant 

7 ultimately, it would wipe that basic model out 

8 completely. So any individual model subsumed. So 

9 it's a risk versus testing burden. 

10 The way it's set up is purely at the 

11 discretion of the manufacturer with two exceptions, 

12 which Sarah noted that are for pumps. And you know, 

13 for the impellers, it's on you guys. If you want to 

14 make representations of different impellers, you may. 

15 You don't have to. And then obviously it says the 

16 number of stages has to be different basic models. 

17 Other than that, it's within your 

18 discretion. So that's what all that says in a little 

19 bit more streamlined fashion. 

20 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

21 MR. RUZICKA: Yes. Paul Ruzicka. I just 

22 wanted to ask if once again, it is defined as a full 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 28

1 trim, and we all recognize it as we trim that 

2 impeller, characteristics and efficiency change? 

3 MS. ARMSTRONG: Correct. So it becomes a 

4 question about whether you want to make 

5 representations of those efficiency characteristics 

6 that have changed. 

7 So if the efficiency -- does that make 

8 sense though? If you're trying to sell a pump and 

9 you sell a given pump model with different trims, 

10 different -- and they have different efficiency 

11 values we all acknowledge. 

12 If you don't want to distinguish the 

13 efficiency values among them when you're selling 

14 them, you want to sell them all under the full 

15 diameter efficiency, that's okay. If you want to 

16 distinguish between them with differing efficiencies 

17 by trim, then you're also allowed to under a 

18 different basic model scheme. 

19 MS. WIDDER: And the thing I would add to 

20 that, that's totally correct, is that that applies to 

21 PEI and PER, DOE's regulated metrics. So if you 

22 wanted to publish PEI for a number of impeller trims, 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 29

1 that would each be different basic models. Or you 

2 can just test the full impeller trim, have the PEI at 

3 full impeller trim and that applies to all pumps with 

4 a variety of different impeller trims. 

5 DOE recognizes that there are pump curves 

6 available at multiple impeller trims, and that's 

7 okay. That's not related to this basic model 

8 definition. 

9 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 

10 MR. HUBER: This premise is contrary to 

11 what we all agreed to. What we agreed to that all 

12 certification, that all representations to the 

13 marketplace for PEI would be done at full diameter 

14 impeller, never at trim diameter impeller. 

15 MS. ARMSTRONG: That's what this says. 

16 MR. HUBER: No, it doesn't. 

17 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes, it does. 

18 MR. HUBER: No, it doesn't. You said we 

19 can report it at trim diameter. 

20 MS. WIDDER: But you don't have to. 

21 MR. HUBER: No, I understand that. But we 

22 think, you know, we could be opening up something we 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 30

1 didn't intend to open up. 

2 MS. ARMSTRONG: So you guys are asking us 

3 to actually close it, and just say that -- 

4 MR. HUBER: It's full diameter only. 

5 MS. ARMSTRONG: --you have to do full 

6 diameter only. 

7 MR. HUBER: Besides that, if you -- 

8 MS. ARMSTRONG: Why? 

9 MR. HUBER: Well, for one reason, it makes 

10 no sense. If you -- if you wanted to certify at a 

11 trim diameter, it would be less efficient than the 

12 full diameter. So why would you do that? 

13 MS. ARMSTRONG: So you don't have to do 

14 that unless you -- unless you're going to disclose 

15 that information to your customer. Do you not plan 

16 to ever disclose that information to your customer? 

17 MR. HUBER: Well yeah. They would have 

18 that on a pump curve. 

19 MS. ARMSTRONG: But not in PEI/PER? 

20 MR. HUBER: But not in PEI -- 

21 MS. ARMSTRONG: So then this should be a 

22 non-issue, right? 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 31

1 MR. HUBER: Well, I don't know. It's not 

2 a non-issue. What we originally envisioned, and I 

3 think the EE NGOs agree with this, is that we would 

4 only rate each model, each basic model at full 

5 diameter, for PEI, VL and CL. Now that's all we 

6 agreed to. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: You would like to make 

8 sure that this -- 

9 MR. HUBER: We don't want a discussion of 

10 impeller trims at all. 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: This option, you would 

12 prefer not to have it open? 

13 MR. HUBER: Absolutely. 

14 MS. WIDDER: So instead of "may," we would 

15 just say "must"? 

16 MS. ARMSTRONG: Well so they have to do 

17 full impeller. So that's -- it isn't the test 

18 procedure that you have to do full impeller. There 

19 is no question about that. That's required. That is 

20 what the implementation of the working group. This 

21 allows manufacturers to, if they chose to, make the 

22 differentiation. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 32

1 I'm not sure it matters if you're saying 

2 no one would ever do it, but okay. We can look at 

3 it. 

4 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Let's make sure and make 

5 your detailed written comments on this point. Okay, 

6 Mark. 

7 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel from Xylem. So 

8 I guess, I mean do you have other equipment that 

9 you've done before that you recommend these for? 

10 Because you know for us, I think Al said it, you 

11 know, we publish the trims because our customers can 

12 pick at trims. But for, you know, for reporting 

13 purposes, which was really I think our biggest issue, 

14 reporting is greatly simplified if we only report it 

15 for full impeller diameter. 

16 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. So we -- 

17 MR. HANDZEL: So it could add to our 

18 burden significantly. 

19 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah. We have a variety 

20 of products, where we have discretionary -- where the 

21 manufacturer has discretionary kind of, I would say, 

22 configurations or other types of attributes that 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 33

1 would affect efficiency, that they may report if they 

2 wish to distinguish in the marketplace 

3 representations of efficiency. 

4 So yes, it's very common for the 

5 Department to set up a scheme where instead of the 

6 Department dictating, it's allowing manufacturers the 

7 choice, depending on how they want to sell their 

8 products. We find that to be a good policy, but 

9 we've heard your concerns. I don't know that -- it matters

10 either way. 

11 I mean the test procedure is implemented, 

12 that you have to test with full. So I don't think 

13 anyone's requiring -- this doesn't require you to 

14 certify at anything but full. It allows you the 

15 options here. 

16 MR. FERSTROM: So this is -- excuse me. 

17 This is Gary for the California Investor-Owned 

18 Utilities. I understand the simplicity and 

19 desirability of perhaps requiring everyone to only 

20 report that full impeller diameter. 

21 However, when this equipment is purchased, 

22 applied, installed, specified, oftentimes a trim is 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 34

1 utilized, and the question then becomes is the 

2 manufacturer going to provide this information to 

3 their users, yet be precluded from reporting it if 

4 they wanted to, or alternatively, might they provide 

5 this information to the users and report it 

6 voluntarily if they want to? 

7 When we operate incentive programs, the 

8 PUC very much likes to have us reference information 

9 that is reported to a regulatory agency, because 

10 there's some confidence that that information is 

11 correct, and if it's simply specified by the 

12 manufacturer, the PUC believes we don't have 

13 confidence that that information may be so correct, 

14 because it's simply a manufacturer assertion or a 

15 specification. 

16 So I think our preference would be to 

17 leave the door open to reporting this information 

18 voluntarily, if some manufacturers prefer to do so. 

19 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Voluntarily? 

20 MR. FERSTROM: Yes. 

21 CHAIR BROOKMAN: I think you actually did 

22 a really good job of describing the rationale for all 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 35

1 of this. Al, you're next, Al Huber. 

2 MR. HUBER: The one thing we don't want is 

3 confusion in the marketplace, and what we -- any pump 

4 tested at full diameter that has a better efficiency 

5 will have a better efficiency through its trim. So 

6 the customer is benefitting from that. But what we 

7 were supposed to put on our labels or what we had 

8 agreed to in the term sheet was the PEI/CL or VL, the 

9 model number and the impeller diameter of the unit. 

10 Now if you've trimmed it, it shows it. It 

11 shows that it's trimmed. So the customer knows that 

12 it's a trim diameter. So -- 

13 MR. FERSTROM: So -- 

14 MR. HUBER: And by the way, this is the 

15 language we agreed to Gary, and we agreed that we 

16 were only going to do it at full diameter. We never 

17 discussed trimming it. We were very plain on that 

18 from the very beginning, and we all agreed to it. 

19 MR. FERSTROM: Was this the test procedure 

20 specifically? 

21 MR. HUBER: It doesn't -- no, this was in 

22 the rulemaking, but it's -- 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 36

1 (Off mic comment.) 

2 MR. HUBER: As Ashley so adequately put 

3 before, there are a lot of these terms that go back 

4 and forth between these two. 

5 MR. FERSTROM: So Al, this is Gary. I 

6 agree we agreed to it, but I thought what we were 

7 agreeing to was going to be what would be required 

8 mandatorily, for lack of a better term, and you know, 

9 DOE has now come along after the fact and said well, 

10 we'd like to provide for the capacity to report 

11 additional information voluntarily. 

12 I don't think that conflicts with the 

13 agreement we made, because I thought our agreement 

14 was around what needed to be reported on a mandatory 

15 basis. And one more point: you're right, anything 

16 that reflects a trim is going to be more efficient 

17 than a full impeller diameter. But for the purpose 

18 of our rebate programs, we'd like to know how much 

19 more efficient, not just more efficient. 

20 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob Boteler. 

21 MR. BOTELER: Rob Boteler. This isn't too 

22 far away from what we do with motors. We use the DOE 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 37

1 test method that we've agreed, and we test everything 

2 at 100 percent load. We also then share with our 

3 customers the performance at 25, 50 and 75 percent 

4 load, using the DOE test method. But we actually 

5 test and label at 100 percent load. 

6 MALE PARTICIPANT: You don't have to do 

7 the others? 

8 MR. BOTELER: We don't have to do the 

9 others, but the market demands that, and DOE has 

10 already told us, as we know, a lot of motors run 

11 below the 100 percent load so the customers -- 

12 CHAIR BROOKMAN: You create the curve, as 

13 was suggested by Al. Has that created confusion in 

14 your marketplace? 

15 MR. HUBER: No, I mean and kind of to 

16 Gary's point, you know, the delta between a 

17 non-regulated product and the regulated product 

18 continues down the curve. It changes a little bit, 

19 but there is -- the delta is still there. 

20 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul, please go ahead. 

21 MR. RUZICKA: Yes, Paul Ruzicka. We were 

22 just talking about the form of confusion in the 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 38

1 marketplace. Since the denominator would be based 

2 off of full trim, you start trimming it and using 

3 less power, you're really dropping the numerator 

4 drastically. So it's artificially going to make 

5 something look like a much better product than it is 

6 when it was originally rated for. So that adds a lot 

7 of confusion in the marketplace. 

8 So if we market it at full trim, hold it 

9 full trim, it's much more rational, a much better way 

10 to keep track of who's got the right and best 

11 efficient product in terms of the selection to the 

12 customers. 

13 MS. WILLIAMS: So this is Alison. I just 

14 wanted to state that in consideration of that, 

15 basically what happens is if you decide you want to 

16 certify different impeller trims as a different basic 

17 model, the denominator would also reflect that other 

18 impeller trim. So it would not be -- I know what 

19 you're talking about, and we thought about that, and 

20 that's how we basically it scales to the other like 

21 that. 

22 So that's the proposal on the table. So 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 39

1 it does scale correctly with the reduce impeller 

2 trim. 

3 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Ashley, do you want to 

4 add on? 

5 MS. ARMSTRONG: No. I mean I think we've 

6 heard the discussion. It's something we can think 

7 about for certain -- obviously, I think we're on the 

8 same page as what you're required to do. What you're 

9 required to do is full impeller. That's what needs 

10 to be certified. That's what their PEI and PER needs 

11 to be based on, period. I think it goes to us 

12 closing the door on discretionary, and from what I 

13 hear from you guys, you would never do it anyway. 

14 So whether the door is closed from a 

15 regulatory standpoint or not, it would never happen, 

16 from a practical standpoint. But we've definitely 

17 heard your considerations, and we can talk about it. 

18 This is just consistent with our regulatory approach. 

19 In general, we like to provide manufacturers with the 

20 most flexibility, to let them decide. But we hear 

21 your concerns so -- 

22 MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary again. I'd 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 40

1 like to add to Ashley's point. Again, our preference 

2 would be for you to have the capacity to report 

3 voluntarily. If you chose not to, that's okay. But 

4 it may turn out that you're precluding yourselves 

5 from access to some voluntary rebate program 

6 opportunities, on account of the fact that a 

7 regulatory commission like to have us use 

8 specifications that are reported to some regulatory 

9 agency, so we can have confidence in them. 

10 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. I'll take final 

11 comments. I think that we've pretty much covered 

12 this now. Go ahead Paul, and then I don't know. 

13 MR. RUZICKA: The only last comment I want 

14 to make is that the only regulatory or certification 

15 or investigation would be performed at full trim, 

16 full diameter, as required by the standard, and that 

17 you wouldn't go in and grab a minimum diameter trim 

18 using the minimum motor requirements, because that 

19 could give you a totally different picture, and we 

20 have not investigated that, to be able to answer one 

21 way or the other whether or not we really do see 

22 direct changes in PEI ratio. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 41

1 MS. ARMSTRONG: So if we're taking about 

2 -- this is Ashley from DOE. If we were purely asking 

3 how DOE would enforce its standard, if the standard 

4 is based on full impeller, we're going to be 

5 enforcing the full impeller standards. We're going 

6 to be testing as required, as you are. We're not 

7 going to do anything different than that. 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: You understand DOE's 

9 rationale here. The construct of this -- 

10 MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary again for the 

11 California IOUs. The question, Ashley. If 

12 information is reported voluntarily, are 

13 manufacturers not obligated to report that correctly? 

14 MS. ARMSTRONG: I chose my words carefully 

15 for a reason. The answer is yes. Obviously, if they 

16 are -- if they decide voluntarily to report or use, I 

17 guess use and report readings, that reading must be 

18 determined in accordance with our test procedure. I 

19 think that's a different question than enforcing the 

20 standard, for which the standard is based on full 

21 load. But yes, proper representations for commercial 

22 equipment are also within the Department's authority. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 42

1 MR. FERSTROM: Okay, thank you. So I just 

2 wanted again to get to the basis of voluntary rebate 

3 programs, and the importance of having creditable 

4 information on which to base our estimates of 

5 savings. 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

7 MR. FERSTROM: This has nothing to do with 

8 the standard or the way measurements are made for the 

9 standard. It simply has to do with the credibility 

10 of specifications that are at other operating 

11 situations. 

12 CHAIR BROOKMAN: We're about to move on. 

13 Aniruddh? 

14 MR. ROY: This may be an annoying 

15 question, but I guess I'll just ask it anyway. So 

16 based on the definitions that have been provided so 

17 far, are the pumps in currently regulated products, 

18 covered products by DOE, also covered by this 

19 regulation? 

20 MS. WIDDER: Can you provide an example of 

21 what you're thinking about? 

22 MR. ROY: Yes. Like I would say, let's 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 43

1 say rooftop units that may use condensate pumps or -- 

2 MS. WIDDER: This definition is only 

3 applicable to pumps, and specifically the scope of 

4 pumps discussed in the proposed rules. 

5 MR. ROY: Right, and so that's between one 

6 and two hundred horsepower. So if you're using let's 

7 say a one horsepower condensate pump on a rooftop, 

8 would that be covered? 

9 MS. WIDDER: If it meets the definition of 

10 the proposed equipment classes and a lot of other 

11 exclusionary parameters we're going to discuss later 

12 on. But if it meets the definitions of the scope 

13 that we're going to continue to discuss, it would be 

14 covered by the test procedure and standard, as it was 

15 distributed in commerce by the manufacturer. So you 

16 as a purchase of the pump would not -- 

17 MS. ARMSTRONG: So I think the answer is it

18 depends. It depends on the attributes of the specific pump

19 model you're talking about. Let us get through all the 

20 definitions. Our pump definition is very broad, but 

21 the standards and test procedures as applicable that 

22 we're talking about today is fairly narrow. So let 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 44

1 us get through those, and if we still have questions 

2 at the end, let's take those, because we're going to 

3 have to understand the specific characteristics. 

4 But you know, to the extent a given pump 

5 that may be used in a larger system somewhere meets 

6 the definitions, it would be covered if it met the 

7 definitions, and then if it met the specific 

8 characteristics with the scope, we've defined as 

9 applicable test procedures and standards, it would 

10 need to meet those as well. 

11 MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary. I think 

12 the question goes to double coverage and -- 

13 MS. ARMSTRONG: I got it. 

14 MR. FERSTROM: And if I heard your answer 

15 correctly, if the product is covered by the pump 

16 regulation, then it must meet the regulation 

17 regardless of what you put it in. 

18 CHAIR BROOKMAN: We have question from 

19 someone who's joined us online, Laura Petrillo-Groh 

20 asks how would a customer differentiate between PEI 

21 full impeller and PEI trim, and how much trim? 

22 MS. WIDDER: So I'm going to go onto the 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 45

1 next slide, and I think this might help a little bit 

2 describe at least the proposal on the table. So the 

3 next definition is DOE's proposed definition of full 

4 impeller, which would apply to all pump models in 

5 DOE's basic model definition, which has the exception 

6 of full impeller. 

7 Full impeller diameter means either the 

8 maximum diameter and power used with a given pump 

9 basic model distributed in commerce, or the maximum 

10 diameter and power referenced in the manufacturer's 

11 literature for that pump basic model, whichever is 

12 larger. 

13 So basically the largest impeller trim that 

14 pump basic model is distributed in commerce with, or 

15 representations are made about it. The flexibility 

16 comes where we are requiring that you test with full 

17 impeller. If you had, for example, a given pump and 

18 you sold it with ten different trims, and for 

19 whatever reason, this is a hypothetical situation, 

20 you defined the maximum trim, full trim as one basic 

21 model and then half trim as one basic model, you 

22 could certify both of those with full trim for those 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 46

1 two basic models, based on this definition, and I'm 

2 getting some head nods, so this seems to be making 

3 sense. 

4 So it's always full impeller diameter, 

5 it's just what are you making representations about, 

6 where the flexibility is coming. So what are you 

7 defining as full impeller diameter for that model? 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: And you can see the 

9 comment box there, comment on the proposed definition 

10 for full impeller with the additional text in blue. 

11 Comments here. Paul. 

12 MR. RUZICKA: We accept it. 

13 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Thanks for the 

14 confirmation. That's useful. 

15 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So this is a little 

16 bit more -- this has already been covered by Ashley 

17 pretty well. But this is just an example of sort of 

18 the basic model grouping that Ashley was discussing 

19 previously. 

20 This is mostly applicable to pumps with 

21 motors, but this concept applies generally, where 

22 manufacturers could pair a bare pump in this example, 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 47

1 with several different motors of varying performance 

2 characteristics, and to rate these pump and motor 

3 combinations, manufacturers may rate each pairing of 

4 a pump and motor as individual basic models. 

5 So then you would have, in this instance, 

6 the same bare pump paired with three different 

7 drivers. They would have varying performance 

8 characteristics reflective of that specific pairing, 

9 or you could group all three of those, based on the 

10 same bare pump, and then you would have to represent 

11 the efficiency of the least efficient or most 

12 consumptive combination within that basic model. 

13 So Ashley's discussed this previously. 

14 This is just an illustration of where that could 

15 happen in practice for this industry. We're 

16 requesting comment on -- we've been discussing the 

17 proposal to require that all pump models be rated in 

18 the full impeller configuration only, and how that 

19 definition works, and the option of rating pumps with 

20 trimmed impellers as a single basic model or separate 

21 basic models. 

22 We've really discussed these in detail, so 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 48

1 I don't know that we have additional comments at this 

2 time. 

3 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Any final comments, 

4 because we will move on now. 

5 (No response.) 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

7 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So next, that was 

8 pumps in general. Now we're getting more specific. 

9 On this slide, we again have the blue circle, which 

10 describes the universe of pumps that are a covered 

11 equipment type, and then within that, DOE has defined 

12 several categories of pumps or ways of 

13 differentiating different pumps that define more 

14 specifically what pumps the test procedure and 

15 standards would apply to. 

16 So within pumps, DOE is also proposing a 

17 definition for rotodynamic pumps, to exclude positive 

18 displacement pumps, and you can see that indicated 

19 here. So gray in general indicates categories of 

20 pumps, examples,- this is not a full comprehensive 

21 image obviously - that would not be subject to the 

22 proposed test procedure and standards. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 49

1 The red defines specific equipment or pump 

2 categories that would also not be subject to the 

3 proposed test procedure and standards, but are 

4 proposed definitions within the test procedure, to 

5 specifically exclude them and DOE is considering 

6 specifically dedicated-purpose pool pumps and 

7 circulators as subsequent rulemakings, as recommended 

8 by the working group. We'll talk more about that 

9 later. 

10 And then in this green circle, we have 

11 rotodynamic pumps that are equipment classes subject 

12 to the standards. So the acronyms are here. 

13 Vertical turbine submersible, RSV we defined earlier, 

14 end suction close-coupled, end suction frame mounted 

15 and in-line. This slide provides definitions of those 

16 five equipment classes, to which DOE is proposing the 

17 test procedure and standards would be applicable. 

18 The acronym that's going to be used 

19 throughout this presentation, and then as recommended 

20 by the working group, the associated HI nomenclature 

21 for those five equipment classes. 

22 DOE developed proposed definitions for 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 50

1 these five equipment classes, to clarify specifically 

2 the equipment to which the test procedure and 

3 standards would apply, and to make sure that the 

4 equipment classes were mutually exclusive from each 

5 other and from pumps not intended to be considered 

6 within the scope of the test procedure and standards. 

7 So for example, we want to make sure 

8 circulators are excluded from the definition of end 

9 section close-coupled, frame mounted and in-line 

10 pumps, so they're not covered unnecessarily. So you 

11 see some color on this slide. I'm going to get into 

12 the detailed definitions, which are also presented in 

13 the NOPR next, and this color scheme corresponds to 

14 aspects of the definition that in DOE's mind 

15 accomplish these exclusions. 

16 So green text will refer to parts of the 

17 definition that specifically exclude circulators 

18 from, for example, end suction close-coupled 

19 pumps. Orange will correspond to similarly excluding 

20 dedicated-purpose pool pumps, and then purple will 

21 refer to language that on a design basis excludes 

22 immersible pumps. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 51

1 So to accomplish these definitions and 

2 provide clarity, DOE also proposed definitions for 

3 rotodynamic pump, end suction pump and single axis 

4 flow pump. We're going to discuss those first, since 

5 they're referenced in the subsequent definitions of 

6 the equipment classes. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: I want to just provide a 

8 moment for everybody to read this slide, give you a 

9 chance to just process this information. But we're 

10 differentiating with this color scheme here. So 

11 let's make sure everybody's on the same page before 

12 we proceed. 

13 MS. WIDDER: It will come up later on too. 

14 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, okay. Okay, yeah. 

15 MS. WIDDER: Okay, all right. So 

16 rotodynamic pump. These are -- I'm going to go 

17 through these definitions and then the specific pump 

18 equipment classes, and then we'll request comment on 

19 the whole thing. So rotodynamic pump means a pump in 

20 which energy is continuously imparted to the pumped fluid 

21 by means of a rotating impeller, propeller or rotor. 

22 I believe this is consistent with the industry 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 52

1 definition for rotodynamic pump. 

2 End suction pump means a single-stage 

3 rotodynamic pump, in which the liquid enters the bare 

4 pump in a direction parallel to the impeller shaft, 

5 and on the side opposite the bare pump's driver end. 

6 The liquid is discharged through a volute in a plane 

7 perpendicular to the shaft. So this is just 

8 describing the characteristics or the design features 

9 of specific end suction pumps. We defined this so 

10 that we could then subsequently define end suction 

11 close-coupled, end suction frame mounted and 

12 circulators -- as a type of end suction or category of 

13 end suction pump that's not one of the covered 

14 equipment classes. 

15 Similarly, single axis flow pump means a 

16 pump in which the liquid inlet of the bare pump is on 

17 the same axis as the liquid discharge of the bare 

18 pump. That would be, for example, an in-line pump. 

19 But this term is defined to specifically characterize 

20 in-line pumps as an equipment class, versus 

21 circulators that might also have this design 

22 characteristic, but are not an in-line pump, as 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 53

1 defined. 

2 Okay, so here we go. End suction -- this 

3 is a very wordy slide. I apologize for that. These 

4 definitions are in the NOPR. Really, we're going to 

5 focus on the colored text, to make sure this is 

6 accomplishing, in the industry's eyes, the exclusions 

7 we're hoping for. 

8 End suction close-coupled pump means an 

9 end suction pump in which the motor shaft also serves 

10 as the impeller shaft of the bare pump. The pump 

11 requires attachment to a rigid foundation to function 

12 as designed, and cannot function as designed when 

13 supported only by the supply and discharge piping to 

14 which it is connected. 

15 DOE reviewed circulators and other 

16 commercial industrial pumps, and determined that this 

17 specific design characteristic is unique to 

18 circulators, and could be used to clearly 

19 differentiate for market, industry and DOE 

20 circulators from other similar end suction close21 coupled pumps, end suction frame mounted pumps and 

22 in-line pumps. So you'll see that terminology in each 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 54

1 of these three definitions. 

2 Third, the pump does not include a basket 

3 strainer. DOE, and in accordance with the working 

4 group definitions, we discussed specific design 

5 characteristics for dedicated-purpose pool pumps, 

6 that could be used to differentiate those categories 

7 of pumps from the equipment classes DOE is 

8 considering in this rulemaking. So that's part of 

9 the end suction close-coupled and frame mounted 

10 definition as well, to exclude dedicated-purpose pool 

11 pumps. 

12 Then you can see the HI nomenclature noted 

13 in the definition as examples of this type of pump. 

14 DOE noted in the NOPR that where HI nomenclature may 

15 be slightly inconsistent with the definition, the HI 

16 or the DOE definition will rule. So the HI 

17 nomenclature is, as recommended by the working group, 

18 there to provide clarity, consistency, but is not, 

19 you know, would not stand up in an enforcement 

20 case. 

21 The in-line pump means a single stage, 

22 single axis flow. There's that term rotodynamic 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 55

1 pump in which liquid is discharged through a volute 

2 in a plane perpendicular to the impeller shaft, and 

3 the pump requires attachment to a rigid foundation. 

4 There's the circulator exclusion and the referenced 

5 HI nomenclature. 

6 Radial split multi-stage vertical in-line 

7 diffuser casing pump means a vertically suspended 

8 multi-stage single axis flow rotodynamic pump in 

9 which liquid is discharged in a plane perpendicular 

10 to the impeller shaft. Each bowl or stage consists of 

11 an impeller and diffuser, and here's the part that 

12 DOE's intending to exclude immersible pumps. No part 

13 of the pump is designed to be submerged in the pump 

14 liquid. 

15 We have HI-referenced nomenclature, and 

16 then for VTS pumps, a single-stage or multi-stage 

17 rotodynamic pump that is designed to be operated with 

18 the motor, and stages or bowls fully submerged in a 

19 pump liquid- That's the submersible part - and in 

20 which each stage of the pump consists of an impeller 

21 diffuser and liquid - and then you have reference to 

22 how it moves through pump, to pump fluid, and the referenced 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 56

1 HI nomenclature. 

2 And here's several requests for comment 

3 that in general are requesting comment on DOE's 

4 exclusions. Are we accomplishing the exclusions that 

5 were intended by the working group, the definitions? 

6 Are we defining the right equipment class, you know. 

7 If there's specific wording changes, as was noted 

8 earlier, that might be more appropriate for written 

9 comments. But I will take them now as well. 

10 CHAIR BROOKMAN: So I think the Department 

11 has done an excellent job of showing its intentions 

12 here, and really differentiating with these colors 

13 what it's trying to do with each of these 

14 definitions. So comments generally on what's here. 

15 Paul. 

16 MR. RUZICKA: Yes, Paul Ruzicka. On the 

17 both in-line and close-coupled products, the need to 

18 note Item 2 on both those, these products do not 

19 require access to a foundation to function. 

20 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 

21 MR. RUZICKA: And in order to help define 

22 circulators better, HI has developed a definition 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 57

1 recently, and it's published in ANSI/HI 1.1-1.2-2014, 

2 which I think will be useful to the Department 

3 of Energy. 

4 MS. WIDDER: Thank you. We will consider 

5 that. We have reviewed those definitions, and would 

6 appreciate any specificity about unambiguous design 

7 characteristics, that someone besides a pump 

8 manufacturer could look at a given pump and determine 

9 whether or not it was a circulator or an in-line pump, 

10 if that makes sense. 

11 The CP1, CP2, CP3 definitions are 

12 referencing -- were not based on unambiguous design 

13 characteristics, as far as we could tell. But we 

14 might not -- we can follow up with you if we have 

15 additional questions. Thank you for that comment. 

16 MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary for the 

17 California IOUs. We agree with HI here, because 

18 we've observed some circulator pumps indeed do have 

19 bases, and an improved definition would be useful. 

20 Secondly, I'm not sure that a strainer basket is the 

21 defining characteristics of a dedicated-purpose pool 

22 pump, because I believe there are some pool pumps 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 58

1 that don't have strainer baskets, where the strainer 

2 basket is a separate item. 

3 So we should, at a high level, look into 

4 that, to make sure that we've got the defining 

5 characteristic to accomplish the purpose you're 

6 intending to achieve here. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

8 Additional thoughts, comments on these definitions? 

9 Mark. 

10 MR. HANDZEL: No. I was just going to add 

11 on to Gary's. Mark Handzel from Xylem. So you know, 

12 that ^^^^ we never did any discussion of a definition 

13 of a pool pump, nor did we intend to. We really said 

14 that that was really up to the pool pump, you know, 

15 investigation, which was obviously just announced 

16 this week. 

17 So you know, it again comes back to the 

18 application, you know. We sell commercial pool pumps 

19 that have basket strainers, and we sell commercial 

20 pool pumps that don't have basket strainers. In our 

21 eyes, the ones that don't have basket strainers would 

22 be covered under this regulation that we're 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 59

1 discussing here today. 

2 But again, it's a matter of semantics and 

3 something that needs to be defined. 

4 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

5 MR. HANDZEL: Okay. 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. So any 

7 additional written comments would be helpful. 

8 MR. HANDZEL: And just to -- Sarah, I 

9 think, you know, I appreciate your request for 

10 unambiguous design characteristic on circulators. 

11 Obviously, we struggled because circulators are in 

12 general in-line pumps, okay, just very small ones. So 

13 it's something I think we may need to have a little 

14 discussion with to talk about further, because it's 

15 very difficult to -- 

16 Now we understand why you were putting 

17 rigid foundation in. We were scratching our heads 

18 trying to understand why you did that. 

19 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 

20 MR. HANDZEL: But it doesn't work. 

21 MS. WIDDER: Another thing to consider 

22 could be a horsepower limitation specific for 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 60

1 circulator pumps and pumps that might otherwise be 

2 circulators. 

3 MR. HANDZEL: And that is, I think, 

4 something that we could discuss, you know. We'll 

5 talk about it on the circulator side, but obviously 

6 we don't build pumps that are close-coupled or in-line 

7 pumps, how should I say this? Some of our circulator 

8 product classifications are, could technically fall 

9 in-line, but they have slight differences, and that's 

10 why we don't include them in in-line. 

11 MS. WIDDER: Right. 

12 MR. HANDZEL: So we just need to -- 

13 MS. WIDDER: We need to hear what those 

14 differences are, if you can break them down. 

15 MR. HANDZEL: Because if we did that, then 

16 we could maybe make the break to some horsepower. 

17 MS. WIDDER: Yep, great. 

18 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah, so Paul Ruzicka. 

19 MR. RUZICKA: And Sarah, just to bring the 

20 bullets out, because you commented on a power limit. 

21 So I'll describe the bullets here. The circulator 

22 pump has a rotating assembly that must be 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 61

1 horizontally mounted, okay. It must be supported by 

2 the piping system. It utilizes special purpose 

3 motors unique to this pump type, and motor shaft 

4 power shall not exceed 3.7 kilowatt or five 

5 horsepower. 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Is that from the HI 

7 definition? 

8 MR. RUZICKA: That's from the HI 

9 definition, correct. 

10 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Great, thank you. So 

11 you'll submit those. 

12 MS. WIDDER: So I will say that one of the 

13 terms, and I could be misunderstanding, but one of 

14 the characteristics you defined was supported by the 

15 piping, which is what we were trying to accomplish 

16 here. But I'm hearing that that might not be the 

17 case. 

18 MR. RUZICKA: Well, you say rigid 

19 foundation. We interpret a foundation meaning 

20 fastened to the ground. 

21 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 

22 MR. RUZICKA: Okay. So maybe we're just 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 62

1 not speaking -- 

2 MS. WIDDER: The same language. 

3 MR. RUZICKA: Yeah. 

4 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. We are trying to 

5 accomplish that bullet that was in the definition, 

6 which was supported by the piping. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay Al, keep going. 

8 MR. HUBER: One of the things we don't 

9 want to happen, and I'm sure DOE doesn't want to 

10 happen. If someone comes up with end suction pumps 

11 and says mine doesn't have to be mounted, then they 

12 would not have to comply with the regulation. I 

13 think that could be a real problem. 

14 MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary, or vice-versa 

15 Al. Someone comes up with a circulator that does 

16 have to be mounted, all right. 

17 MR. HUBER: Using the mounting method, we 

18 think, is probably not the right differentiator here. 

19 MR. FERSTROM: So we're on the same page 

20 in terms of cooperation and intent, as you are, and 

21 we look forward to finding the best way to describe 

22 this. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 63

1 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

2 MS. WIDDER: Great. 

3 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark. 

4 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel. A comment on 

5 Issue 12 and, you know, this is a repeat comment that 

6 we have echoed on the Hydraulic Institute side 

7 repeatedly, in that we have nomenclatures, ANSI/HI 

8 nomenclatures for pumps, and we still strongly 

9 advocate the use of our nomenclature, not introducing 

10 another new nomenclature as the direction is 

11 currently going, okay. So I know you're referencing 

12 ours, but we're just staying stick to one, don't come 

13 up with a new one. 

14 MS. WIDDER: So we did want to include 

15 those. I think our struggle was you've noted that 

16 these are extremely detailed and specific 

17 definitions, and the definitions of HI nomenclature 

18 are not this specific was our struggle. 

19 MS. ARMSTRONG: So this is Ashley. Let me 

20 tell you a little bit about how we got to here. I 

21 guarantee you guys didn't struggle nearly as much 

22 with these definitions as much as our lawyers did, 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 64

1 when they were trying to review this document before 

2 it came out. So there was a lot of discussions about 

3 how we can make the definitions exclusive, how we can 

4 figure out if a given model, if you are not in the 

5 pump industry, falls into this bucket or that bucket. 

6 And while I think your HI language is 

7 really helpful to you guys, from people that aren't 

8 necessarily aware of it or aren't engrossed in it 

9 every day, we kind of needed to also utilize this, 

10 which has a little more specificity around it, for 

11 helping us determine which models may be applicable 

12 or which standards and test procedures may be 

13 applicable to which model. 

14 So maybe there's some middle ground there. 

15 We've had other regulations for other products where 

16 we've used specific industry nomenclature, that we've 

17 then reverted from doing that to more 

18 clarification-type definitions, because we realized 

19 when we got in ^^^^ when we got to implementing those 

20 regulations, then people started asking about whether 

21 my given model is covered. It was very hard for 

22 people to tell. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 65

1 MR. HANDZEL: So just to explain a little 

2 bit further, our issue is more with the use of the 

3 ESCC term, and not the ANSI/HI term. So I know the 

4 problem with the definition, but it's just the, you 

5 know, the way that you're using those abbreviations 

6 is contrary to what we do. 

7 MS. WIDDER: So would you prefer overhung 

8 close-coupled? 

9 MR. HANDZEL: Well, our specific product 

10 category class which, you know, whether it's OH-1, 

11 OH-2, whatever it is, okay. 

12 MS. WIDDER: So just say OH-7 pump? 

13 MR. HANDZEL: Uh-huh. 

14 CHAIR BROOKMAN: And so I'm thinking about 

15 -- 

16 (Simultaneous speaking.) 

17 MS. WIDDER: I just wanted to clarify what 

18 your suggestion was, yeah. We can definitely 

19 consider that. 

20 MR. HANDZEL: Okay. 

21 MS. ARMSTRONG: So is it not efficient to 

22 have examples, because I think that -- maybe you can 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 66

1 help me bridge the gap, but I think we were not 

2 completely sure if OH-7 pmp was identical in terms of 

3 defining as our definition is, and maybe that's where 

4 -- 

5 MS. WIDDER: And then also -- so for end 

6 suction frame mounted, for example, there's two 

7 applicable. So then would we define OH-0 and OH-1 

8 pump as this? 

9 MR. HANDZEL: Yes. Of the top of my head, 

10 I'm sorry. I'm not even as knowledgeable on our own 

11 categories. 

12 MS. ARMSTRONG: Right. 

13 MR. HANDZEL: But you know, it's just 

14 another language that we're creating -- 

15 MS. ARMSTRONG: Do me a favor and take a 

16 deep dive into this. We went through this for weeks 

17 here, no doubt weeks, you know, with your language, 

18 with our language, and we really struggled here, and 

19 so ultimately found what we came out with, but 

20 obviously welcome your expertise and comments on 

21 that, everyone's today. So thank you. 

22 MR. HANDZEL: Yeah. I mean I can't 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 67

1 specifically comment, like because now you have that 

2 -- the basket strainer thing in there. So now you've 

3 got to go back and try to figure out what did that 

4 just do to our description, you know. So those are 

5 -- 

6 MS. ARMSTRONG: Right. We were trying to 

7 -- I mean the task is if you want make changes to the 

8 definitions, that A, they're mutually exclusive. But 

9 B, where we decided to limit the scope to not include 

10 certain things that may otherwise meet the broad 

11 definition, that it's clear that limiting factor is 

12 part of the definition so it's out. 

13 MR. HANDZEL: Okay. Thank you for the 

14 explanation. It helps. 

15 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Are we ready? 

16 Joanna. 

17 MS. MAUER: Just a quick question, Mark. 

18 I wanted to go back to your comment about the types 

19 of pool pumps that you saw. You said you saw some 

20 with a basket strainer and some without. The ones 

21 that you saw without a basket strainer, are those 

22 always used for pool applications or -- 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 68

1 MR. HANDZEL: No. They would be used in 

2 clean water applications of all types, whether 

3 they're HVAC, plumbing, you know, any type of 

4 application. That's why a pool is clean water, you 

5 know. 

6 MS. MAUER: Okay. 

7 MR. HANDZEL: So it just depends how they 

8 design the system and what they're using it for. 

9 That basket strainer is obviously to filter solids 

10 out, so where are they doing that? I think that 

11 there's lots of different ways to do that. 

12 MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. So I think 

13 the defining characteristic of a pool pump has to do 

14 with the way the motor is mounted to the pump and the 

15 impeller is attached to the motor shaft. So we need 

16 to look into what constitutes the defining 

17 characteristic of a pool pump, and I don't think it's 

18 the strainer basket. 

19 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah Paul. 

20 MS. ARMSTRONG: This is Ashley from DOE, 

21 and you can't see them, but they're all shaking their 

22 heads at you. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 69

1 MS. WIDDER: Right. In case they weren't 

2 going to speak up next. 

3 MR. HUBER: We will speak up. What you've 

4 just described, the pool pump is basically an end 

5 suction pump and the impeller's attached the same way 

6 as it was on any other clear water pump, and that's 

7 why he's saying it would be used in several 

8 applications. However, conversely it would already be 

9 covered by this regulation. 

10 MR. FERSTROM: Okay. Paul, there's 

11 something that makes the pool pump unique, and then 

12 you define it. 

13 MR. RUZICKA: This is Paul Ruzicka. 

14 Typically, I mean if we're talking about large 

15 commercial pool pumps that's one thing. I'm not sure 

16 whether we're going to differentiate between 

17 residential and large commercial. But pool pumps by 

18 nature have to have, at least the residential stuff, 

19 is considered double insulated product. 

20 In other words, there's no conductive path 

21 through the water to any contact to the pump, motor 

22 shaft or frames. It's all basically insulated 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 70

1 through plastic. So that's something that's done on 

2 the residential side. However, on the commercial 

3 side that may differ. 

4 MR. FERSTROM: The product we have in mind 

5 that we'd like to address and considered to be pool 

6 pumps are single-phase less -- have I got your 

7 attention folks? Single-phase less than five 

8 horsepower, not commercial industrial or commercial 

9 pool pumps which may be five horsepower. 

10 CHAIR BROOKMAN: So that was Gary. Now to 

11 Mark. 

12 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel from Xylem. So 

13 Gary, I mean that defines things very well, and 

14 definitely should be, you know. That's a scope on 

15 the pool side that needs to be focused on, because we 

16 understand what you're talking about when you say 

17 that. 

18 MR. FERSTROM: Okay. So that's the 

19 direction we're going in California with the CEC, 

20 single-phase, less than five horsepower. 

21 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. So as you look at the 

22 issue -- 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 71

1 MS. ARMSTRONG: Well, let me make one 

2 clarifying. So what we were trying to do here, so I 

3 think the DOE could do this two ways. One is we're 

4 trying to make clear that dedicated-purpose pool 

5 pumps are out of the scope of this and being saved 

6 for another day. As you know, we just announced it. 

7 So if there's a definition that we can 

8 make clear that those generally are out of the scope 

9 of this, that would be helpful. To the extent that 

10 definition gets refined as part of that rulemaking 

11 that specifically addressed pool pumps, that can 

12 still happen too. 

13 But what we're trying to do -- I'm trying, 

14 I don't know that we need to necessarily, because we 

15 haven't discussed what the scope of that might look 

16 like. There are a lot of things, as part of that 

17 rulemaking, that I think may affect the definition. 

18 But we're trying to make clear here at least that 

19 they're not in the scope of this particular set of 

20 test procedures and standards we're thinking about. 

21 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes please. Is it Brent? 

22 MR. ROSS: Brent Ross, yes. I just want 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 72

1 to make sure one of the original points was not lost, 

2 and that is HI's position that rigid foundation will 

3 not work. As an example, on in-line pumps, certainly 

4 the in-lines right up to 200 horsepower or even 1,000 

5 horsepower, are mounted just in the pipe and do not 

6 have a rigid foundation. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

8 MS. WIDDER: So that's a great comment, 

9 and we look forward to working with HI, because we 

10 really were trying to capture the supply piping 

11 exclusion definition that they have. And I'll echo 

12 Ashley, that we can discuss the definition of 

13 dedicated-purpose pool pump in more specificity in 

14 that rulemaking. I think right now you want to make 

15 sure a given pump isn't covered by both. That's the 

16 biggest concern. 

17 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

18 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So I encourage more 

19 written comments on that. These will be a little bit 

20 redundant now, but just presenting the specific 

21 definitions of circulators and dedicated-purpose pool 

22 pumps that were proposed to be excluded in this 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 73

1 rulemaking. 

2 As we'll discuss later on and we've 

3 already brought up, the circulator and dedicated 

4 purpose pool pump definitions may and probably will 

5 be refined as part of those prospective rulemakings, 

6 as recommended by the working group. 

7 This is really just to ensure that they're 

8 not part of this test procedure, and we're not 

9 unintentionally requiring a circulator to comply, 

10 when that's not what we're proposing to do. So a 

11 circulator means a pump that is either an end suction 

12 pump or a single stage, single axis flow 

13 rotodynamic pump, and has a pump housing that only 

14 requires the support of the supply and discharge 

15 piping to which it is connected, without attachment 

16 to a rigid foundation to function as designed. 

17 So that we've already discussed how that 

18 characteristic may not be the appropriate one. We 

19 will discuss that later on. We look forward to other 

20 suggestions specifically, and then we do have -- we 

21 reference the CP1, CP2, CP3 nomenclature that HI 

22 just released, that was referenced earlier, and then 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 74

1 dedicated-purpose pool pump means an end suction pump 

2 that is designed specifically to circulate water in a 

3 pool, and that includes an integrated basket 

4 strainer. 

5 We discussed this definition really 

6 briefly in the working group. We wanted to leave in 

7 the designed specifically to circulate water in a pool 

8 to demonstrate that intent, since it is difficult to 

9 differentiate based on design characteristics that 

10 are unambiguous. 

11 But we discussed with the working group 

12 including the basket strainer, as that 

13 differentiating, clear, unambiguous characteristic 

14 that would separate an end suction close-coupled or 

15 frame mounted pump from a dedicated-purpose pool 

16 pump. As we've already discussed, we might need to 

17 work on that also. 

18 We have an issue requesting comment on 

19 these proposed definitions, but I think we've 

20 discussed them in pretty good length. So perhaps 

21 we'll move on, unless there's anything else pressing. 

22 CHAIR BROOKMAN: I think we're ready to 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 75

1 move, yes. 

2 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So now moving on from 

3 those equipment, specific equipment class 

4 definitions, this slide discusses a few other pump 

5 categories. Yeah, uh-huh. 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark, you're next. Mark, 

7 use the microphone. 

8 MS. WIDDER: 32. 

9 MR. HANDZEL: Questions 13, 14 and 17. 

10 There you go. Do we -- 

11 MS. WIDDER: So I had two requests for 

12 comment slides sort of right in a row. As Doug 

13 mentioned, we can go through each of these issues in 

14 detail if you would like to respond to each of them. 

15 I'm concerned that we may run out of time if we do 

16 that. There was like 75 requests for comments in the 

17 NOPR. 

18 MR. HANDZEL: That's fine, that's fine. 

19 Then we can go ahead. 

20 MS. WIDDER: Yeah, great. But if you -- I 

21 encourage you to go through each issue and respond to 

22 it in writing. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 76

1 CHAIR BROOKMAN: And as Sarah had also 

2 requested, if you can reference the issue box number, 

3 that will make it easier for the reviewers to track 

4 your comments. 

5 MR. HANDZEL: Yeah, we have that done. 

6 Thank you. 

7 MS. WIDDER: Yes. 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thanks. We're 

9 moving on then. 

10 MS. WIDDER: Great. So moving on, this is 

11 again specific pump categories that DOE discussed in 

12 the NOPR, that are not intended to be included in the 

13 scope of the test procedure and standards being 

14 discussed today. This is consistent with the working 

15 group recommendations. 

16 Axial/mixed flow and positive displacement 

17 pump, if you recall the big football shape. The 

18 positive displacement pumps are excluded, because 

19 they're not a rotodynamic pump. Then axial/mixed 

20 flow pump, DOE considered the exclusionary parameters 

21 that we're just going to discuss in a few additional 

22 slides, regarding specific speed, head, flow and power 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 77

1 limits, and then also the reference to a volute in 

2 some of the previous pump definitions, and thought 

3 that those two characteristics would sufficiently 

4 exclude axial/mixed flow pumps from the scope of the 

5 test procedure and standards being discussed today. 

6 We have this request for comment on that 

7 belief. So that positive displacement pumps are 

8 excluded. I think that's pretty cut and dried, but 

9 specifically that axial/mixed flow pumps are 

10 implicitly excluded, based on the scope parameters 

11 we'll discuss later on, and the reference of a volute 

12 in some of the pump definitions. 

13 So right now, since we have to discuss the 

14 characteristics first, just keep that in mind when 

15 you're listening to them. We want to exclude mixed/ 

16 axial flow pumps, and so if there's different 

17 additional definitions or terminology we need to 

18 introduce to do that, we'd request comment and 

19 suggestions on that. 

20 Okay. So the scope of pumps discussed in 

21 the test procedure, proposed coverage under this test 

22 procedure and standards is sliced and diced in a lot 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 78

1 of ways. So here's the big circle, blue circle of 

2 pumps again, but now we're looking at defining for 

3 those specific five equipment classes that we already 

4 presented, limiting the scope of pumps based on the 

5 pumped fluid. 

6 This was discussed with the working group 

7 and recommended in the term sheet. The proposed test 

8 procedure and standards would be applicable only to 

9 clean water pumps. You can see several examples of 

10 pumps that are not clean water pumps in the darker 

11 blue circle, some clean water pumps that will be 

12 specifically excluded. 

13 So these are clean water pumps that would 

14 otherwise meet DOE's proposed definition of clean 

15 water pumps, but as per the guidance of the working 

16 group were not intended to be covered, because of 

17 their specific application that was unique from the 

18 categories of pumps considered for this test 

19 procedure and standards. 

20 Then the green circle, the clean water 

21 pumps in this rulemaking. So clean water pump means 

22 a pump that is designed for use in pumping water, 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 79

1 with a maximum non-absorbent free solid content of 

2 0.25 kilograms per cubic meter, and with a maximum 

3 dissolved solid content of 50 kilograms per cubic 

4 meter, provided the total gas content of the water 

5 does not exceed the saturation volume, and 

6 disregarding any additives necessary to preventing 

7 the water from freezing at a minimum of minus 10 

8 degrees Celsius. 

9 So that takes two discussions we had in 

10 the working group and puts them together. So in the 

11 working group, we had defined clean water and clean 

12 water pump as clean water pump means a pump that's 

13 designed to pump clean water, and then we defined 

14 clean water, and this definition just is a little 

15 more concise, where we put those two concepts 

16 together. It's also consistent with the EU 

17 definition of clean water. 

18 Next, I'm going to present -- well, we 

19 have a request for comment on the definition for 

20 clean water pump. The subsequent slide, we'll 

21 discuss the definition of the six excluded clean 

22 water pump categories. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 80

1 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel from Xylem. We 

2 agree with the definition, as agreed to in the 

3 working group. 

4 MS. WIDDER: Great. 

5 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. I recall a 

6 significant discussion on all of this. 

7 MS. WIDDER: Yep. 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

9 MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. Just as an 

10 afterthought, it seems -- it's simply a question. 

11 I'm not disagreeing. 50 kilograms per cubic meter 

12 seems like an awful lot of dissolved solids. Is that 

13 really what you guys intended? 

14 (Off mic comment.) 

15 DB Paul. 

16 MR. RUZICKA: Yes. Clean water isn't 

17 necessarily clean and clear to the eye. We have a 

18 lot of gray water applications and river water is a 

19 great example of what you're seeing here. 

20 MR. FERSTROM: Okay, thank you. 

21 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah. Gray water or the 

22 like. We're proceeding now so -- 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 81

1 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So actually I guess I 

2 didn't. So the slide that presents the definitions 

3 for nuclear pump, sealless pump, MIL-SPEC pump, 

4 self-priming pump, fire pump and prime-assist pump we 

5 weren't going to discuss in detail today, but we can 

6 if you'd like. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Since they were excluded 

8 -- 

9 MS. WIDDER: They're excluded. They are 

10 defined in the NOPR. So those details are presented 

11 -- those definitions are presented in detail in NOPR. 

12 They in general reference specific requirements that 

13 those pumps need to meet or have. 

14 For example, MIL-SPEC references MIL-P15 17639F, and if a pump is designed in accordance with 

16 that military specification, then it would meet DOE's 

17 definition of MIL-SPEC and be excluded from clean 

18 water pumps. Similarly fire pump, as proposed by the 

19 working group, discusses UL and FM certification. 

20 That was proposed by the working group. 

21 Self-priming and prime-assist pump 

22 reference the utility of those pumps, that they don't 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 82

1 need to be reprimed, and nuclear pump, nuclear 

2 facility pumps reference the specific CFR section 

3 that describes the design characteristics for pumps 

4 used in nuclear facilities. I think because we are, 

5 it is already 10:30, but I can bring up a slide with 

6 all those definitions, if we wanted to get into any 

7 of them right now. 

8 Okay. It's in general consistent with the 

9 working group recommendations. 

10 CHAIR BROOKMAN: So consistent, while we 

11 had significant discussion on these definitions as 

12 well, in trying to find a specification that would 

13 clarify which pumps we were referring to. But I 

14 would still encourage, especially the manufacturers 

15 present, to look carefully at these definitions and 

16 comment, and particularly your endorsements, your 

17 reaffirmation that what the Department has come up 

18 with, it makes sense. That's very helpful. Mark, go 

19 ahead. 

20 MR. HANDZEL: Yeah, Mark Handzel. I just 

21 would say, you know, we have comments on all these, 

22 but they're basically using HI definitions that are 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 83

1 published in our standards and everything. So you 

2 know, we will certainly include all that commentary 

3 in our written report. But I -- I mean if anybody 

4 wanted to see what we're going to say, it's widely 

5 available. 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah. Not at this point, 

7 and though those comments will be especially helpful 

8 to the Department, and now we're going to -- noting 

9 that we have a lot of content, we're going to keep 

10 moving on. 

11 MS. WIDDER: All right, great. So the 

12 specific comments that request detailed remarks, as 

13 Mark mentioned they're preparing, we appreciate that. 

14 So now we're getting to the proposed pump parameters, 

15 or those design characteristics that will further 

16 limit the scope of pumps considered for this test 

17 procedure and standard, from those five equipment 

18 classes designed to pump clean water, and within 

19 these head flow temperature, full diameter and power 

20 limitations, and also the rotating speeds. 

21 These were also discussed and voted on in 

22 the working group, and are listed here. So the shaft 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 84

1 power at the best efficiency point, at full impeller 

2 diameter for the number of stages required for 

3 testing to the standard. 

4 So that's basically back to the basic 

5 model definition. That basic model is based on full 

6 impeller and a specific number of stages. So the 

7 shaft power at best efficiency point for that basic 

8 model would be between 1 and 200 

9 horsepower. The best efficiency point flow rate at 

10 full impeller diameter would be greater than or equal 

11 to 25 gallons per minute. Head at BEP and full 

12 impeller diameter less than or equal to 459 feet. 

13 Design temperature between minus 10 and 120 degrees 

14 Celsius, and a bowl diameter for VTS pumps of less 

15 than 6 inches. 

16 Then the pump's designed to operate, and 

17 we included the nomenclature designed to, because 

18 these pumps are not always sold with a motor. So 

19 it's designed to operate with a specific style of 

20 motor. So there's four styles listed here. In the 

21 working group, we had discussed in particular 2 and 

22 4-pole induction motors. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 85

1 Pole terminology is not really as 

2 applicable to non-induction motors. So we also 

3 included a specified speed range for those 

4 non-induction motors, to accomplish the intent of the 

5 working group, that those pumps were intended to 

6 rotate at nominally 1,800 and 3,600 RPM. 

7 And just for a little clarification, we'll 

8 get into this later on. The range was selected to be 

9 consistent with the test procedure. It's plus or 

10 minus the allowable speed range in the test 

11 procedure. 

12 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

13 MR. RUZICKA: Yes, Paul Ruzicka. We just 

14 wanted to make one comment about the speed. Quite 

15 frequently it's allocated to the driver speed. We 

16 wanted to make that statement say "impeller and 

17 driver speed," because there's numerous products out 

18 there that are not one to one, in terms of driver 

19 speed to impeller rotating speed. They're either 

20 geared or belt or pully. 

21 MS. WIDDER: Okay. And so you're -- just 

22 making sure I'm understanding your question or your 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 86

1 suggestion, you're clarifying that this referred to 

2 the driver speed, not the impeller speed? 

3 MR. RUZICKA: No, referred to the 

4 impeller. 

5 MS. WIDDER: The impeller speed not the 

6 driver speed. 

7 MR. RUZICKA: Not the driver speed, 

8 correct. 

9 MS. WIDDER: Thank you. That's very 

10 helpful. 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Gary Ferstrom. 

12 MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. I have a 

13 question about what we decided to do with vertical 

14 submersibles that may operate at high speed, the ones 

15 that also have a submersible motor, you know, 

16 operating above 3,600 RPM multi-stage pumps? 

17 CHAIR BROOKMAN: What's the question? 

18 MR. FERSTROM: What we decided to do about 

19 those, whether it was our intention to address them, 

20 in which case we might have a conflict with the 3,600 

21 RPM nominal speed -- 

22 MR. RUZICKA: Multi-stage VTS. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 87

1 MR. FERSTROM: I'm thinking of the product 

2 that Grundfos makes. 

3 MR. RUZICKA: No, we understand what 

4 you're talking about Gary. But I guess we're saying, 

5 you know, most of them are published data based on 

6 3,600 RPM. I mean so you're talking about there's 

7 like they make some solar-powered stuff that's higher 

8 RPM? No. 

9 (Off mic comment.) 

10 MR. FERSTROM: Yeah. I was talking about 

11 the one that ran around 8,000. I want to make sure 

12 we don't inadvertently leave a loophole. 

13 MS. WILLIAMS: So this is Alison. I'm 

14 positive that we talked about this in the working 

15 group when -- with Greg Towsley and his product, and 

16 the agreement was to -- that whatever we have here 

17 aside from that is sufficient. So we can revisit the 

18 transcript, but I'm 99 percent positive that was the 

19 intent, was to not worry about those. 

20 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul, go ahead. 

21 MR. FERSTROM: Well, not worry about it 

22 means that it might not meet the definition, and 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 88

1 therefore it might be excluded, and I'm not sure 

2 that's the intention of HI, to allow an exclusion for 

3 this one particular product that happens to operate 

4 at a higher RPM. 

5 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

6 MR. RUZICKA: Yes. In the European 

7 legislation for minimum efficiencies for products 

8 too, they basically said for pumps that are designed 

9 for higher operating speeds, they must achieve the 

10 same performance as the nearest pole speed. In other 

11 words, if it's a very low speed or a very high speed, 

12 it's going to have to go to the nearest pole speed to 

13 be evaluated. 

14 MR. FERSTROM: Okay. Well I just 

15 recommend that you guys consider this language with 

16 respect to that product, such that you get what you 

17 want. 

18 MS. WILLIAMS: And this is Alison. I 

19 mean we will go back and review the transcript, and 

20 maybe others can as well, just to make sure we're all 

21 on the same page for that. 

22 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 89

1 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Consistent with the 

2 scope limiting parameters discussed previously, DOE 

3 also proposed a definition of bowl diameter. Just to 

4 be clear and unambiguous about how that -- oops, why 

5 don't I go back there -- how that 6 inch threshold 

6 would be measured on all pumps, consistently 

7 manufacturer to manufacturer, DOE, anybody conducting 

8 the DOE test procedure would determine bowl diameter 

9 in the same way. 

10 So bowl diameter means the maximum 

11 dimension of an imaginary straight line passing 

12 through a plane of the circular shape of the 

13 intermediate bowl or chamber of the bare pump, that 

14 is perpendicular to the pump shaft. So the bowl is 

15 typically perpendicular to pump shaft circle, that 

16 intersects with the circular shape of the 

17 intermediate bowl or chamber of the bare pump at both 

18 of its ends. 

19 So end to end of the bowl, where the 

20 intermediate bowl or chamber is as defined in this HI 

21 document which defines them, what a bowl or chamber 

22 is for a multi-stage pump. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 90

1 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

2 MR. RUZICKA: Yes Sarah. We just think, 

3 just for best clarification, we would like to change 

4 that to the outermost diameter. 

5 MS. WIDDER: Sure, that's a great 

6 suggestion. We'll consider that. Okay. Any other 

7 comments or suggestions or bowl diameter at this 

8 time? 

9 (No response.) 

10 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Next, we're moving on 

11 to discussion of pump configurations. 

12 (Off mic comments.) 

13 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Can we take a break now? 

14 MS. WIDDER: Okay, take a break. 

15 CHAIR BROOKMAN: We've covered a lot of 

16 ground. We're doing really well. I appreciate all 

17 the comments. It's now almost 10:45. We'll take a 

18 15 minute break, which means we'll resume at 11:00. 

19 I think you're familiar. You need to wear your badge 

20 in the building. There's a coffee shop down on the 

21 ground floor. It takes them a while sometimes. So 

22 please go there rapidly. There are restrooms both 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 91

1 ends of the hall, and we'll see you back here to 

2 resume at 11:00. 

3 (Whereupon, a short break was taken.) 

4 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Please take your seats. 

5 We're going to resume. Brenda has made a request. 

6 Many of you came in this morning and did not hand a 

7 business card to Brenda. Some of you did, some of 

8 you did not. Anyone who's here, if you'd pull out a 

9 business card and pass it in to Brenda, then the 

10 Department will make a Xerox copy of all those 

11 present that will be available to everyone. 

12 And also, if you're going to be here for 

13 the afternoon session, which is going to be a 

14 separate proceeding for the purposes of 

15 recordkeeping, if you would also hand a second card 

16 to Brenda, so that that can be included for the 

17 afternoon. So everybody should have -- that's going 

18 to be here for the morning and the afternoon, should 

19 have handed in two business cards to Brenda, and then 

20 there will be a complete list of all those present. 

21 Okay, and if you'd do that, and maybe you 

22 can just grab them now and pass them over toward 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 92

1 Brenda. Yes Mark? 

2 MR. HANDZEL: Doug, can we just get a 

3 clarification as to who's online listening? 

4 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Oh. We have 30 plus 

5 individuals online. Do you want -- 

6 MS. ARMSTRONG: Do you want to know if a 

7 specific person's online, or you just want to know -- 

8 (Off mic comment.) 

9 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Oh, he'll be included in 

10 the -- 

11 MS. ARMSTRONG: He'll be on a webinar 

12 report. Like it's a webinar attendee list that we 

13 put as part of the docket, which will be separate 

14 from this one, but all in the same docket. So you'll 

15 be able to see them all. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: And if there was a person 

17 that you want to know specifically, we could probably 

18 do that. But otherwise, there's a lot of 

19 individuals. Okay. So then please hand in a 

20 business card to Brenda, and we're going to proceed. 

21 Sarah Widder. 

22 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So I am going to note 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 93

1 that we're a little bit behind schedule, which I knew 

2 would happen, and we have a lot of material to get 

3 through in hopefully the next two hours. 

4 So maybe during the break, if you had a 

5 little bit of time to look through all of the stuff 

6 that we're going to discuss, and focus your comments 

7 on those aspects that you think are most productive 

8 to discuss today, recognizing that we are going to 

9 consider all of the written comments you submit on 

10 all of this material. Otherwise, I just don't -- we 

11 could be here for days. 

12 So we're going to keep going. I'm going 

13 to start being a little more high level about 

14 presenting the slides, and hopefully you guys can be 

15 a little more high level about your comments, and 

16 just focus on those particular issues that really 

17 need to be discussed. 

18 CHAIR BROOKMAN: I would note to support 

19 Sarah's general frame here, that not being a pump 

20 expert, but having participated in the negotiations, 

21 so much of this content looks very familiar to me. 

22 So I'm hoping we can keep it at a high level. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 94

1 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So the next couple of 

2 slides discuss the different configurations of pumps 

3 that DOE is proposing to apply the test procedure and 

4 energy conservation too. As Doug mentioned, this was 

5 discussed at length in the working group, that the 

6 DOE test procedure would apply to pumps sold in a 

7 bare pump configuration, without a driver, a bare 

8 pump sold with a driver, and a bare pump sold with a 

9 driver and controls. 

10 I'm bringing this up especially now 

11 because the application of the test procedure is 

12 specific to these different pump configurations. And 

13 in addition, DOE is considering different test 

14 procedures, depending on the type of control and type 

15 of driver with which the bare pump is sold. 

16 So in addition to those three primary pump 

17 configurations, if they're sold -- if the pump is 

18 being sold with one of the drivers highlighted in 

19 blue, that would be considered under the bare pump 

20 and driver test procedure that DOE is proposing, 

21 either testing or calculation-based. We'll get into 

22 that in a little bit. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 95

1 The orange boxes are not proposed to be 

2 covered or considered a driver, in terms of applying 

3 the bare pump and driver test procedure we discussed 

4 in the working group, and recommended that pumps sold 

5 with non-electric drivers, for example generators, 

6 would be rated as a bare pump only. And if they were 

7 sold with a motor, then they would be sold -- rated 

8 as a bare pump with a driver with that motor. 

9 Similarly, a bare pump and driver and controls, the 

10 blue continuous and non-continuous controls, which 

11 I'm going to define on the next slide, would be 

12 considered controls that are applicable to the bare 

13 pump driver and control test procedure, and that is 

14 specifically PEI/VL, the variable load PEI. 

15 Controls other than continuous 

16 and non-continuous controls would be rated as a bare 

17 pump and driver only, and so that would be - like a 

18 float switch wouldn't qualify as a continuous or a 

19 non-continuous control, and wouldn't be eligible to 

20 apply the PEI/VL metric. 

21 So next I'm going to define continuous and 

22 non-continuous controls. So DOE, as we discussed 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 96

1 previously, there's a broad definition of control. 

2 Anything that controls the driver, it could be a 

3 timer, it could be really anything, and those are 

4 useful in application. 

5 But in terms of applying the test 

6 procedure, we really were concerned with those types 

7 of controls that save energy, and we reviewed the 

8 types of controls with which pumps are typically 

9 paired, and DOE determined that in general, controls 

10 that adjust the speed of the pump driver are the type 

11 of control that are most commonly applied to pumps 

12 that save energy in the field via the pump affinity 

13 laws. 

14 DOE further differentiated the speed 

15 controls into continuous and non-continuous controls. 

16 Continuous controls, we have a specific definition 

17 there, but it's in general meant to refer to VFDs, 

18 ECMs, variable speed drives that would respond to 

19 incremental changes in flow rate, and essentially 

20 follow the pump curve or the system curve. 

21 Non-continuous controls are a type of 

22 control that also adjusts to speed of the driver to 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 97

1 achieve energy savings or a reduction in power 

2 requirement to the pump, but do so at incremental 

3 sort of places, like a multi-speed motor is the best 

4 example of that. 

5 So it wouldn't necessarily follow the 

6 system curve at every flow rate or design point. But 

7 at some points, you would be able to achieve reduced 

8 power consumption at lower, at like a part loading, 

9 whereas some points you would need to stay at the 

10 full rotating speed if the part, the incremental part 

11 load couldn't operate at that point. 

12 So anyways, we defined these two 

13 definitions as the controls that reduce energy 

14 consumption that might be paired with a pump. When 

15 requesting comment on these proposed definitions, as 

16 well as any other types of controls that might want 

17 to be considered as a -- applicable to the PEI/VL 

18 metric, that are not -- wouldn't meet the definition 

19 of continuous or non-continuous control, as defined 

20 here, in that they achieve energy savings but they 

21 don't adjust the speed of the driver. 

22 And if yeah, that's pretty much what we'd 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 98

1 like comment on. Yep. 

2 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel. We agree. 

3 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 

4 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. Yes, Dan. 

5 MR. DELANEY: Dan Delaney, Regal Beloit. 

6 Just as a question or clarification on non-continuous 

7 controls, you know, we look at, you know, single 

8 speed PSC controls, which would be considered 

9 multi-speed, or let's say a multi-pole motor like a 

10 2-4 or 2-6 pole. I'm kind of looking for 

11 clarification here. A lot of our assumption is 

12 that's not a non-continuous control, but just wanted 

13 to get some opinions from those at the table here, 

14 about those type of technologies that obviously can 

15 limit obviously power consumption at reduced speeds, 

16 but would in our mind probably not classify under 

17 non-continuous controls. 

18 MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary and I have a 

19 comment too. In the non-continuous category, I'm 

20 wondering if you want to differentiate between 2 

21 speeds and multi-speeds, which might mean 3 or 

22 more, the point being that the more discrete speeds 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 99

1 you have to choose from, short of continuous 

2 variability, the better opportunity you have to match 

3 the pump and motor to the load. 

4 MS. WIDDER: So that's a very good 

5 comment, Gary. I think we'll respond to that a 

6 little bit when we discuss the appropriate test 

7 procedures for the different pumps sold with 

8 different types of controls, and we do achieve that 

9 differentiation of performance, based on a 2-speed 

10 versus a multi-speed motor, and we'll get into that 

11 more later. 

12 I think to Dan's point, if there's more 

13 specificity in this definition that's needed to 

14 include or exclude motor control technologies that 

15 may reduce power consumption but is not included 

16 here, we would appreciate those suggestions. 

17 Okay. So as I mentioned, those pump 

18 configurations refer to how the test procedure or 

19 which specific test method can be applied to those 

20 equipment. So for -- you can see in the most 

21 left-hand column, there's a "rated as" column. So 

22 equipment rated as a bare pump, pump plus motor -- I 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 100

1 switched to motor in this case, since we've excluded 

2 non-electric drivers or rated them as a bare pump, 

3 not excluded, and pump plus motor plus controls are 

4 based on how the equipment is rated, and then the 

5 applicable test method. We have calculated-based and 

6 testing-based options. 

7 The testing-based option, we'll discuss 

8 the details further on in the slides. But it 

9 basically refers to a wire-to-water test, where you 

10 would stick the pump and driver and control, if 

11 applicable, in the test stand, and measure the input 

12 power furthest upstream and the hydraulic output 

13 power. 

14 The calculation-based method refers in 

15 general to methods where you test the bare pump, 

16 physically test the bare pump only, and there's 

17 default calculations and assumptions that are made in 

18 the test procedure, to determine the resultant 

19 representative rating of the bare pump plus driver 

20 plus control, if sold that way. 

21 We're going to discuss those details all 

22 later on, but that's what the testing and 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 101

1 calculation-based methods refer to. So this just 

2 reiterates what I mentioned on a previous slide, 

3 where a bare pump sold with a non-electric driver or 

4 single-phase induction motor would be rated as a bare 

5 pump. The calculation method is only applicable to 

6 those pumps. 

7 A pump plus motor is if it's paired with a 

8 motor that is a covered polyphase electric motor or a 

9 submersible motor, that could be tested or 

10 calculated. Since we discussed this in the working 

11 group at some length, that those equipment have a 

12 certified full efficiency, a nominal full load 

13 efficiency value that can be referenced. 

14 For pumps sold with electric motors that 

15 are not covered by DOE's energy conservation 

16 standards for electric motors, those would need to be 

17 tested via the wire-to-water method, because we don't 

18 have a certified nominal full load efficiency for 

19 those motors. 

20 The continuous and non-continuous controls 

21 is as we discussed previously. Those don't count as 

22 controls, and so they would need to be rated as the 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 102

1 bare pump and driver only, and then pump, motor and 

2 controls, for the purposes of applying the test 

3 procedure, you could -- you can do a calculation for 

4 pumps paired with a covered motor and continuous 

5 controls. 

6 Because our continuous control 

7 calculation, as we discussed in the working group, 

8 basically assumes that the pump will follow the 

9 system curve, a reference system curve that was 

10 discussed, that is in general in accordance with the 

11 pump affinity laws. So a control that will follow 

12 that system curve would be applicable -- would be 

13 able to use the calculation-based method. 

14 Non-continuous controls like a multi-speed 

15 motor that achieve speed reduction and power 

16 reduction, but wouldn't consistently follow the 

17 reference curve would need to apply the testing-based 

18 method, because following the system curve wouldn't 

19 be representative of their performance. 

20 And similarly, non-covered electric motors 

21 would need to apply the testing-based approach in 

22 that case as well. So that's what this slide is 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 103

1 getting at. 

2 CHAIR BROOKMAN: That's a lot of content. 

3 Questions? 

4 MS. WIDDER: Yep. 

5 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, Rob Boteler. 

6 MR. BOTELER: Yeah, I just have a question 

7 on the submersible under the testing-based or 

8 calculation. Submersible testing then would be per 

9 the Department's motor testing program that we use on 

10 other covered products? 

11 MS. WIDDER: So this test procedure would 

12 not require or specify testing of the submersible 

13 motor by itself. The calculation -- so the 

14 testing-based approach, as applicable to bare pumps 

15 sold with submersible motors, would be wire-to-water. 

16 So the pump paired with the submersible motor could 

17 be tested via the wire-to-water approach, where you 

18 measure the input power to the motor and the 

19 hydraulic output power. 

20 Applying the calculation-based approach to 

21 a submersible motor and bare pump as shown in the sort 

22 of lower left there, refers to default submersible 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 104

1 motor efficiencies that the Department has assumed as 

2 part of the test procedure. We're going to discuss 

3 that in detail later on. 

4 But in that case, the pump manufacturer 

5 would be required to use only those default 

6 submersible motor efficiencies, and to the extent 

7 that the submersible motor they had paired with that 

8 pump had a higher efficiency, for example, than the 

9 default, they would need to apply the testing-based 

10 approach to reflect that improved performance. 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob. 

12 MR. BOTELER: So when we get to that 

13 table, the levels that are on that table are tested 

14 per the DOE requirements? How do we determine those 

15 levels? 

16 MS. WIDDER: I will discuss that in more 

17 detail when we get to that slide, about how those 

18 were determined. But we will -- when we get there 

19 certainly appreciate feedback on if those are 

20 appropriate. 

21 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Gary Ferstrom. 

22 MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary, thank you. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 105

1 Sarah, you used the term "single-phase induction 

2 motor." I'm not sure whether you're talking about 

3 the power that is supplied to a motor drive 

4 combination or the motor itself, exclusive of the 

5 electronic drive that may be attached to it. 

6 My question is what if the motor isn't 

7 really an induction motor, it's some other motor 

8 design? 

9 MS. WIDDER: If it's a single-phase motor 

10 that is not an induction motor, it would be a 

11 non-covered electric motor, and would be, based on 

12 this proposal, applicable to use the pump plus motor 

13 test provisions. Does that make sense? 

14 MR. FERSTROM: Well, I understand that. I 

15 was -- 

16 MS. WIDDER: Let me -- 

17 MR. FERSTROM: --just wanting to make sure 

18 that using the term "induction" there didn't preclude 

19 some other configuration. 

20 MS. WIDDER: Right. Use induction? Okay. 

21 We appreciate those. I'll describe the justification 

22 for why those were proposed to be rated as bare 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 106

1 pumps, and then we would appreciate any feedback on 

2 whether or not induction is necessary in this case, 

3 or additional terms are necessary. 

4 So the reasoning here was based on our 

5 understanding, so the metric, we'll get there. But 

6 the metric is designed as the rated pump performance 

7 over a standard pump performance, and inherent in the 

8 standard pump performance is a standard motor 

9 efficiency that is specific to NEMA A, NEMA B and IEC N 

10 motors, as covered by DOE's energy conservation 

11 standard for electric motors. 

12 That's the default minimum efficiency 

13 motor that's assumed in the standard case. Our 

14 understanding is that single-phase induction motors 

15 are in general less efficient than those motors, in 

16 which case that would -- the assumed minimum 

17 efficiency motor in the standard case isn't 

18 appropriate for those motors. 

19 So rating them as a bare pump allows the 

20 minimum efficiency from the NEMA table to be both in 

21 the numerator and the denominator. If we were to 

22 consider the -- applying pump plus motor test 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 107

1 procedures to, for example, single-phase induction 

2 motors or other motors, that the assumed minimum 

3 default efficiencies wouldn't be appropriate. We 

4 would need separate assumptions to include in our 

5 calculation of PER standard for those motor types. 

6 MR. FERSTROM: Thank you. I think that 

7 explains it. 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

9 MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. All right. So 

10 I'm going to move on. We do request specific 

11 comments on this if you have any. So now I'm going 

12 to get into -- we already discussed a little bit the 

13 design of the metric, but we're going to take a step 

14 back. I'm going to present that. 

15 This is again similar to what 

16 was discussed in the working group at length, and as 

17 we've heard reference so far today, DOE's proposing 

18 two metrics that would be applicable to different 

19 pump equipment classes, depending on the pump 

20 configuration in which they're sold. 

21 So the constant load pump energy index, 

22 which would be applicable to pumps sold without 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 108

1 continuous or non-continuous controls, so a bare pump 

2 or a bare pump plus a motor, would be the PER -- 

3 would be the PEI/CL, that's how we've abbreviated it, 

4 which is a ratio of the weighted average input power 

5 at specific load points of the rated pump, over the 

6 weighted average input power of a minimally compliant 

7 pump of the same equipment class serving the same 

8 hydraulic load. 

9 We're going to get into detail about how 

10 the PER standard quantity is calculated, but this is 

11 -- this should be familiar. It's very consistent 

12 with what was discussed in the working group. The 

13 variable load pump energy index is designed very 

14 similarly. It's still the weighted average input 

15 power to the rated pump, over the weighted average 

16 input power to a minimally compliant pump serving the 

17 same equipment class and the same hydraulic load. 

18 In this case, as noted in the PER standard 

19 row, it's still PER/CL, quote-unquote on the bottom, 

20 in that the PER standard does not assume a control. 

21 It's just the rated pump that would take advantage of 

22 those power savings, and then the main difference 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 109

1 between the two load profiles as discussed and 

2 recommended by the working group is the load profile 

3 that's assumed in the constant load versus variable 

4 load case. The constant load rating points are 75, 

5 100 and 110 percent of the BEP flow for the rated 

6 pump, whereas the variable load is the 25, 50, 75 and 

7 100 percent of BEP flow. 

8 Okay. So this is just same slide that we discussed in 

9 detail, but now on the very left-hand column I've 

10 included just a diagram that shows the applicability 

11 of the PEI/CL versus PEI/VL metrics. So this is 

12 basically in general how DOE's metric is proposed to 

13 apply. 

14 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Do you have a request for 

15 comment? 

16 MS. WIDDER: We have a request for comment 

17 on the proposed load points and weighting. I didn't 

18 mention, but it's equally weighted. We discussed 

19 that in the working group. For the three load 

20 points, it's basically a third, a third, a third; for 

21 the PEI/VL it's equally weighted as well, and then 

22 request comment on the metric architecture and the 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 110

1 applicability to the different pump types. 

2 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Gary Ferstrom. 

3 MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. I'd just 

4 like to comment that a lot of work went into this, 

5 and I think this is an extremely thoughtful and 

6 useful approach that's being taken. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. Additional 

8 comments here? I thought it was an exceptionally 

9 hard-working and thoughtful working group as well. 

10 So additional comments here in response to these 

11 comment boxes? 

12 MS. WIDDER: Okay. In the interest of 

13 time, we're going to move on. So we're going to talk 

14 a little bit about determining PEI. This is -- I 

15 mentioned that there's a calculation and a 

16 testing-based approach that would be applicable based 

17 on the pump configuration and specific metric that is 

18 applied. 

19 This just sort of color codes and shows 

20 what the aspects of that calculation would include. 

21 So the testing-based is obviously the wire-to-water 

22 test, as we had discussed. The three right-hand 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 111

1 columns for the calculation-based procedure in 

2 specific shows that the bare pump performance would 

3 be tested in all cases, and then the assumed motor 

4 performance, that would be part of the calculation. 

5 So for the bare pump, it would be the 

6 minimally compliant motor efficiency, with an assumed 

7 part load loss curve that would assign motor losses 

8 and each load point. We're going to discuss in 

9 detail what assumptions, what that motor efficiency 

10 is, what that part load loss curve looks like. But 

11 this is just in general to get familiar with the way 

12 the calculation test procedure is laid out. 

13 For a bare pump, we have assumptions for 

14 both those characteristics and no controls. For a 

15 pump plus motor, instead of -- it's the exact same 

16 part load loss curve. So it's similar, assumes 

17 similar performance at part loading, but the motor 

18 efficiency is now the nominal full load efficiency, 

19 certified in accordance with the DOE test procedure 

20 for electric motors, instead of the minimally 

21 compliant motor efficiency. 

22 That's the main change here, and then for 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 112

1 a pump plus motor plus controls, the 

2 calculation-based approach again uses the nominal 

3 motor efficiency, and then we don't have an assumed 

4 loss curve for the motor alone, since the driver or 

5 the, excuse me, the control performance affects the 

6 efficiency of the motor so significantly. 

7 We proposed a -- developed and proposed a 

8 part-load loss curve that reflects the losses of the 

9 motor and controls combined. So that's just in 

10 general how this is going to go. Now we're going to 

11 dive into the details about what all those 

12 assumptions are. 

13 So PEI/CL, for the uncontrolled pump, as 

14 we mentioned previously, it's a ratio, weighted 

15 average input power to the pump in the testing-based 

16 approach. It would be at measured tested input power 

17 to the motor at each of 75, 100 and 110 percent of 

18 BEP flow of the bare pump, and then that test or that 

19 measurement reflects the performance of the bare pump 

20 and motor and nothing else is needed. 

21 The calculation-based approach, we have 

22 tested bare pump performance. The input power to the 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 113

1 pump at the pump shaft input power is required at 75, 

2 100 and 110 percent of BEP flow, equally weighted, 

3 and then the purple indicates to the calculated motor 

4 losses, which is either the part-load losses of the 

5 motor that's paired with the pump, that's the pump 

6 plus motor case, or the part-load losses of the 

7 minimally compliant motor, and in this case we're 

8 discussing what that is. 

9 It's a pump or a motor that is minimally 

10 compliant with DOE's motor regulations for NEMA 

11 Design A, Design B or IEC Design N electric motors, 

12 except for submersible motors. Those have a separate 

13 efficiency assumption, and sized based on the shaft 

14 input power of the pump, evaluated 120 percent of BEP 

15 flow. 

16 So we had discussed previously how for 

17 bare pumps, we also need to determine what size 

18 motor. In addition to efficiency, what size motor 

19 that bare pump is rated with. So we tied it to 120 

20 percent of BEP flow, assuming that motors would be 

21 slightly oversized, and that was just a 

22 representative assumption that's applied across all 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 114

1 bare pumps. 

2 That's in general how this calculation 

3 works. I'm going to do the -- oh, so we'll stop 

4 there, because then we'll get in PER standard, if 

5 there's any comments on this. This is really almost 

6 verbatim what we had discussed in the working group, 

7 just discussed in detail. I'll note that the color 

8 scheme, I tried to keep that consistent throughout. 

9 So green is testing, blue pump 

10 performance, purple motor performance. Okay. 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Questions or comments? 

12 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So the denominator, 

13 PER standard of the minimally compliant pump is the 

14 PER/CL, so that constant load, equal rating following 

15 the pump curve for a minimally compliant pump, that's 

16 determined based on the tested characteristics and 

17 hydraulic load of the pumping rated. 

18 So that's blue, that's measurements that 

19 are taken from HI 40.6. You determine the hydraulic 

20 output power, the specific speed and the flow rate 

21 are necessary to calculate the PER standard for that 

22 pump. It assumes a pump curve shape for the minimally 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 115

1 compliant pump and always assumes no control. That 

2 assumed minimally compliant pump is reflected in the 

3 0.95 and 0.985 values that are at 110 percent and 75 

4 percent of the PER standard equation. 

5 The motor losses are the same approach 

6 that's applied to the bare pump. So that should be 

7 consistent above and below the line, and then the 

8 minimally compliant pump efficiency is calculated for 

9 each equipment class, based on the function of flow 

10 and speed of the pump being rated. The pump efficiency 

11 equation is shown here. This is consistent with the 

12 EU, and I will note that it is plus 555.6. So we 

13 appreciate suggestions and help from interested 

14 parties on that. 

15 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

16 MR. RUZICKA: The only problem we still 

17 have, and thanks for correcting the corrections. We 

18 still have one small issue with the rules of 

19 mathematics and significant digits on the 555.6. To 

20 be consistent with the desire of the DOE to carry it 

21 to the hundredth decimal place and no rounding, that 

22 should be 555.60. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 116

1 MS. WIDDER: So I think that's a very good 

2 point, and it made us consider applying 

3 significance analysis to actually the entire 

4 procedure, and I will note that in this case, the 

5 555.60 value is not limiting pump efficiency, and 

6 then pump efficiency is further used to calculate PER 

7 standards. 

8 So how many decimals is on this last digit 

9 is actually not driving how many digits are 

10 significant in PER standard. But we are going to 

11 continue to look at that, and do a full significance 

12 analysis, and we will ensure that it is correct and 

13 you can reach the right number of digits, as 

14 specified for the procedure. So we're definitely 

15 looking into it. We appreciate the comment. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: And thanks for your 

17 earlier flag on this point. Paul, go ahead. 

18 MR. RUZICKA: I'm sorry. There's one more 

19 point. We wanted just for clarification, that the 

20 rate of flow for the pump less efficiency should be 

21 normalized to the 60 Hz pulse speed being 

22 analyzed. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 117

1 MS. WIDDER: Yes. 

2 MR. RUZICKA: Okay, so just to be 

3 clarifying this, right? 

4 MS. WIDDER: Yes. 

5 MR. RUZICKA: Okay. 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

7 MS. WIDDER: So this slide looks very 

8 similar to the determining PEI/CL for an uncontrolled 

9 pump, but now you'll see four terms in the numerator 

10 at the four load points. Again, testing-based 

11 approach is equally weighted determination of the 

12 input power to the motor or control, well control in 

13 this case, excuse me, and the calculation-based 

14 approach takes the input power to the pump, and then 

15 adds the motor performance, and then the controls 

16 performance is captured in the calculation of bare 

17 shaft input power, and accounts for drive efficiency 

18 in the calculated losses. 

19 So that's subsumed in the last three 

20 terms, 25, 50 and 75 percent pump input power and the 

21 motor load, the motor losses or motor and control 

22 losses were capture the pump's, the controls 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 118

1 performance, and we'll talk about that more in 

2 detail. 

3 MR. HANDZEL: Sarah, I'm sorry. Can I 

4 stop for a minute? 

5 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 

6 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel. So Doug, just 

7 to clarify. 

8 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 

9 MR. HANDZEL: So the original NOPR came out, had an

10 error. We notified you guys. You guys issued a 

11 correction. 

12 MS. WIDDER: Yeah. 

13 MR. HANDZEL: And now you're changing it 

14 again. So in our letters, do we need to comment to 

15 what's in the correction, or can we comment to what 

16 you just showed us on the slide that was corrected 

17 again? I just want to clarify, do we need to still 

18 put -- 

19 MS. WIDDER: It's -- 

20 MS. ARMSTRONG: I got it. Just what's on 

21 the slide, because we've decided not to issue a 

22 correction, because we can make the clarification 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 119

1 here. 

2 MR. HANDZEL: Okay, that's -- we just 

3 needed to know that. 

4 MS. ARMSTRONG: So as long as you agree 

5 with what's on the slide, then we're good. 

6 MR. HANDZEL: Okay, thank you. Okay. 

7 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thanks for the 

9 clarification. It's good. 

10 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So this request for 

11 comment is applicable to mostly PER/CL for bare pumps 

12 and PER standard. So specifically that the motor 

13 horsepower for the minimally compliant pump would be 

14 based on the calculated pump shaft input power of the 

15 pump, evaluated at 120 percent of BEP flow, and that 

16 for pumps sold with motors, or motors and controls, 

17 the motor horsepower would be that of the motor with 

18 which the pump is sold, in both cases. 

19 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

20 MR. RUZICKA: We just want to state that 

21 we agree. 

22 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 120

1 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you. We're going 

2 to move on. 

3 MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. So now we're 

4 moving on to what was previously mostly blue 

5 highlighted text, determining bare pump performance. 

6 This is also applicable to the wire-to-water testing, 

7 but in general, we're looking at bare pump 

8 performance. To determine PEI/CL and VL, the input 

9 power to the pump at specified load points is 

10 required. 

11 So we have to physically measure the bare 

12 pump or the entire pump, depending on which method is 

13 applied, and so DOE's proposed instructions for how 

14 to physically measure the performance of these pump 

15 configurations. 

16 To do this, DOE is proposing to 

17 incorporate by reference Hydraulic Institute Standard 

18 40.6-2014, Methods for Rotodynamic Pump Efficiency 

19 Testing as part of the DOE's test procedure. This is 

20 consistent with working group recommendations. 

21 There are a few minor modifications that are 

22 discussed in detail in the NOPR. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 121

1 I'm just going to cover them at a high 

2 level here, but we appreciate specific 

3 recommendations or comments, if you have any. The 

4 proposed minor modifications include excluding 

5 specific sections of HI 40.6 which DOE believed were 

6 not applicable to DOE's regulatory framework. So 

7 sections 40.6.5.3 and Appendix B discuss test reporting. 

8 DOE has a specific certification database and method 

9 that will be discussed, actually in the energy 

10 conservation standard portion this afternoon, 

11 specifically what data is required to be submitted. 

12 But generation of a test report in this format, DOE 

13 is proposing wouldn't be required. 

14 Then also section A.7, which has 

15 provisions for testing at high temperature, DOE's 

16 proposed test procedure and HI 40.6 in the body of it 

17 actually define the test fluid as clean water, and it 

18 has a pretty specific temperature limit. DOE is 

19 proposing that only that test fluid can be used, and 

20 that as such, such high temperature testing and 

21 modifications wouldn't be necessary. 

22 DOE is also proposing to specify a data 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 122

1 collection interval of 5 seconds. DOE determined 

2 the 5-second interval based on the stabilization 

3 requirements within HI 40.6. HI 40.6 requires that 

4 stabilization be determined within 10 seconds, and 

5 in order to determine whether something is stabilized 

6 within that time frame, you need at least 2 

7 measurements that are within a tolerance, and so 

8 that's where the 5 seconds came from. 

9 DOE appreciates comments on if a longer or 

10 shorter time collection interval is necessary. I 

11 feel like we're going to get some. 

12 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

13 MR. RUZICKA: Yes, Paul Ruzicka. The 

14 stabilization in taking data every 5 seconds is 

15 quite difficult when we're dealing with manual 

16 collection methods, which probably many smaller pump 

17 companies may not have the data acquisition to be 

18 able to drive something to that level. 

19 The implication for the 10 seconds was to 

20 monitor all your gauges, and make sure that 

21 everything was steady state, as defined in 40.6. 

22 Rather than taking physical measurements to do that, 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 123

1 you're just monitoring it as a tester and saying yes, 

2 things are stable. They're within the allowable 

3 fluctuations of 40.6. I can go ahead and collect my 

4 data point at that time. 

5 MS. ARMSTRONG: Great. So this is 

6 actually from DOE. If I pulled your pump and I 

7 tested it, and you wanted to know that it was stable, 

8 what data would you want to see to confirm that? 

9 Just me saying yes, it was stable, go? Even if the 

10 answer didn't come out as you may have -- 

11 MR. RUZICKA: No. If the data was stable, 

12 if the data was stable within the allowable 

13 fluctuations in 40.6 -- 

14 MS. ARMSTRONG: But how would you know if 

15 you don't have the data? 

16 MR. RUZICKA: --over that period of 10 

17 seconds, you would then say okay, I've had a good -- 

18 I have a good stable data point. I can collect data. 

19 But to collect all the data necessary within 5 

20 seconds is not physically possible for many test 

21 stands. 

22 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Al. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 124

1 MR. HUBER: That's our biggest concern 

2 with this requirement, is that it will force all pump 

3 manufacturers to go to this type of data collection, 

4 and it could be very, very expensive for them, and 

5 would adversely impact especially the small 

6 manufacturer, because they don't have data 

7 acquisition. 

8 MS. ARMSTRONG: This is Ashley. We can -- 

9 we can relook at this, but I think my question is the 

10 reason why you're seeing it. So I'd like you to 

11 answer the actual question, which is if I test your 

12 pump and you were not there, how would you know it's 

13 stable? Would you take my word for it, because I 

14 looked at the measurements and I wrote down it was 

15 stable. That's good enough for you? 

16 MR. HUBER: If you test it per our 

17 standard it is. 

18 MS. ARMSTRONG: Even if you get a -- 

19 MR. HUBER: And it describes 

20 stabilization. 

21 MS. ARMSTRONG: Well, it describes what it 

22 means to be stable. It doesn't make anyone provide 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 125

1 information that shows it's stable. You see the 

2 difference? 

3 MS. WIDDER: There's no enforceable part. 

4 MS. ARMSTRONG: I think it's enforceable 

5 as written. That's not the issue. It's that if I 

6 test your product, you wouldn't have any data that 

7 says stable or not, and you wouldn't be there. 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: There's no specification. 

9 MS. ARMSTRONG: So it goes both ways. So 

10 I guess we want to know -- I get it that when you're 

11 testing, you're going to make sure it's stable before 

12 you move forward. I think it's more to the point of 

13 how do you know, other than an actual assertion from 

14 the test lab or whoever's testing it that it was? 

15 And maybe that -- you feel that's 

16 unnecessary. It goes both ways though, and I think 

17 you would want that data if DOE was testing your 

18 product, and the answer didn't come out quite as you 

19 expected. 

20 MR. HUBER: We're going to propose some 

21 language in our written response. But what I want to 

22 make sure that you understand, when you require the 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 126

1 5 second interval -- 

2 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah, we got it. I 

3 understand. 

4 MR. HUBER: --it's a matter of huge burden 

5 on some pump manufacturers. 

6 MS. ARMSTRONG: I understand that, and 

7 that wasn't the intention. But do you see -- 

8 MR. HUBER: We understand. 

9 MS. ARMSTRONG: I mean stabilization 

10 within 10, I'm not sure -- we just cut it in the 

11 middle and figure that one data point would help. 

12 MR. HUBER: All right. We will see if we 

13 can come up with some proper language. 

14 MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay, thank you. 

15 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Peter. 

16 MR. GAYDON: Peter Gaydon, Hydraulic 

17 Institute. With the definition as written, are you 

18 proposing that it would need to be documented of 2 

19 points? 

20 MS. ARMSTRONG: So I'm going to go with a 

21 higher level answer. So that proposal as written 

22 yes, but I get the potential impact or the unintended 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 127

1 impact that that might -- proposal may have had. 

2 So I think the intention was to be able to 

3 prove stabilization with some type of data other than 

4 just an assertive answer to yes, it was stabilized, 

5 if you weren't there for testing to see it. (off 

6 mic) I mean one could be the stabilization period 

7 needs to be longer, in which case you don't have to 

8 take as many points, or at least as points at a level 

9 of detail that would require a -- I'm sorry. 

10 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. So your caucus or 

11 the individuals, whoever's compiling these comments. 

12 Mark, go ahead. 

13 MR. HANDZEL: Yeah. So we have an outside 

14 group that we will work with to develop language that 

15 we will propose in our written response. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, excellent. Thank 

17 you. I'm confident you now have connected here on 

18 the principle points there. Sarah. 

19 MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. So the other 

20 minor modifications that DOE proposed to the 

21 standard, the test method discussed in HI 40.6, is to 

22 specify that the allowable integration for a data 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 128

1 collection for stabilization could only allow 

2 dampening over the data collection interval. 

3 So if we have issue with the 5 seconds, 

4 that may change. The quantity of 5 seconds may 

5 change. But in general, if you're collecting data 

6 every however much time, you can only integrate 

7 within that time frame, is what this is trying to 

8 accomplish. There's no maximum in the standard right 

9 now, and they need to be unique measurements. I mean 

10 that's just in general how it works. 

11 MR. RUZICKA: We'll add some criteria to 

12 help judge that as well, in terms of allowable 

13 fluctuations or something like that. 

14 MS. WIDDER: Okay, yep. That would be 

15 very helpful. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thanks Paul, okay. 

17 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Then a few proposals 

18 to improve the test repeatability. As Ashley was 

19 mentioning, it's really important that the 

20 manufacturer test -- can certified data be consistent 

21 with the way that product is tested at a third party 

22 test lab or by DOE, that is always getting more or 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 129

1 less the same number? 

2 And so we proposed a few additional 

3 provisions to help make sure that occurs, removed 

4 some sources of potential error from the test 

5 procedure. One is regarding pump speed, so 

6 specifying that pumps have to be certified at a 

7 specific rated speed, and then that rated speed 

8 bound, there's tolerances around it. 

9 All data is corrected to the nominal 

10 speed, the specified speed. Those provisions are in 

11 general in HI, but the rated speed isn't specified in 

12 general. Here, we're just specifying what the rated 

13 speed is for given pump configurations and based on 

14 the motor with which the pump is sold. 

15 The power supply characteristics, that 

16 applies to in specific a pump sold with motors and 

17 pumps sold with motors and drives. DOE gathered 

18 these specifications, and I'm trying to remember if I 

19 have a slide about this. I do. So I'm not going to 

20 talk -- oh, that's right. 

21 The bold ones I have slides about, so 

22 we're going to talk in more detail about those. The 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 130

1 number of stages for multi-stage pumps we've already 

2 discussed in the basic model definition. It's 

3 consistent with the working group recommendations, 

4 that for multi-stage pumps you only test at one 

5 specific stage, number of stages. 

6 If not, if you don't offer the multi-stage 

7 pump in that specific stage, it's the next highest or 

8 next lowest. There's specific proposals about that 

9 in the NOPR, and then determination of pump shaft 

10 input power, electrical measurement equipment. We'll 

11 talk in more detail in subsequent slides. 

12 Pumps with BEP at run-out. This is just a 

13 specific caveat for pumps where the maximum 

14 efficiency might be at the maximum flow rate of the 

15 pump, in which case 110 percent of BEP flow is not 

16 possible, or a safe operating point for that pump. 

17 In that case, pretty much all you do is 

18 move back ten percent, 100, 90 and 65, and that's all 

19 with that. Otherwise, the procedure is the same. 

20 Only a few pumps that that would apply to, and then 

21 some provisions about calculations and rounding that 

22 were referenced earlier, that all calculations are 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 131

1 done with raw measured values, and then rounded to 

2 0.01. 

3 So I'm going to -- we request here on 

4 using HI 40.6. I believe most folks will be 

5 supportive of that, and we can move on to the -- 

6 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel. So we are 

7 supportive of using 40.6. So I think we're okay with 

8 Issue 33, but we've got some comments coming up here on the 

9 additional bold things that you have in that test 

10 repeatability clause. 

11 MS. WIDDER: I'm ready for ya. 

12 MS. ARMSTRONG: One thing, Sarah. 44 

13 slides, one hour. Okay. We're moving faster. 

14 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So pump speed, in 

15 general. For a bare pump, since it's not paired with 

16 the motor, we're tied to the design speed of 

17 rotation, and we have that same range we saw 

18 previously. It's basically 1,800 and 3,600, plus or 

19 minus 20 percent, which is consistent with the test 

20 provisions in HI 40.6. That's where the range came 

21 from. 

22 For pumps sold with a motor or pumps sold 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 132

1 with motor and controls, you have a motor with which 

2 the bare pump is paired. So the nominal rating 

3 speed, which is in the far right-hand column, would 

4 be based on in general the rotating speed of the 

5 motor with which the pump is paired. 2-4 pole, 36-18 

6 hundred. For non-induction motors, the pole 

7 terminology isn't applicable, we have that range 

8 that we discussed previously. 

9 Consistent with 40.6, DOE is proposing 

10 that the tested speed must be maintained within 20 

11 percent of the nominal speed, and that the speed of 

12 rotation during the test not vary more than one 

13 percent. So then that, you know, it's maintained 

14 more precisely, but then it can be corrected to 

15 nominal. So there's a request for comment on that. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

17 MR. RUZICKA: Yes. We agree with Issue 

18 37, normalizing to 1,800 and 3,600. However, the 

19 wording in Issue 38 is not consistent with what you've just 

20 spoken. It says 1 percent of the nominal speed. 

21 If we were trying to hold 1 percent of the nominal 

22 speed, for instance an 1,800 RPM motor that would be 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 133

1 100 or 1,782, and many of these motors slowed down. 

2 So we would recommend that the tested 

3 speed be within the bounds of the 40.6 test standard. 

4 MS. WIDDER: Thank you for that comment. 

5 That is the intent. 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Is that specific enough? 

7 MS. WIDDER: Yes, extremely. 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, okay. 

9 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So power supply 

10 characteristics. As I mentioned, this is applicable 

11 to pumps sold with motors, with continuous or 

12 non-continuous controls, and also pumps sold with 

13 motors and no controls. If you're measuring input 

14 power to a motor or a control, the characteristics of 

15 the power supply may impact the reliability, 

16 consistency, accuracy of the reading of the measured 

17 power. 

18 So to improve the repeatability for 

19 especially the wire-to-water test, DOE reviewed test 

20 procedures that are available in the industry for 

21 electric motors and variable speed drives, regarding 

22 the voltage requirement, frequency requirement, total 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 134

1 harmonic distortion and impedance of when measuring 

2 input power to a motor or control. 

3 In general, there is a lot of consistency, 

4 especially for voltage and frequency. As such, DOE 

5 proposed to adopt those power supply requirements for 

6 voltage and frequency. They're bolded and in green. 

7 For total harmonic distortion, there was consistency, 

8 except for there's not one in AHRI 1210, and 

9 impedance, there was a little bit of inconsistency in 

10 the standards that DOE reviewed. 

11 DOE proposed to use the specification 

12 provided in AHRI 1210 of less than 1 percent of the 

13 power supply into the pump. DOE recognizes that in 

14 some cases, this would require a conditioned power 

15 supply, in order to conduct wire-to-water testing. 

16 But it's important to maintain the specific 

17 requirements of the power supply, in order to have an 

18 accurate measurement. 

19 So DOE requests comment on these 

20 proposals, and also whether these tolerances can be 

21 achieved in typical pump test labs or if additional 

22 equipment would be required. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 135

1 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes Paul. 

2 MR. RUZICKA: Paul Ruzicka. Sarah, a 

3 typical pump test lab doesn't have the capability to 

4 condition power to these levels. One other piece of 

5 the puzzle that you didn't include was power factor 

6 correction. I see a voltage imbalance, power factor 

7 correction and harmonic imbalance, and those types of 

8 equipment just to speak of just regulating voltage, 

9 up to about 200 horsepower, is in excess of $50,000. 

10 And that's only to regulate voltage. 

11 We haven't even started talking about 

12 harmonics and then phase to phase. So the cost is 

13 extremely prohibitive, and it's not possible or 

14 practical for many companies, specifically the 

15 smaller companies or even the larger companies, to 

16 invest in that kind of power supply regulation. 

17 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Can you suggest another 

18 alternative that would achieve the kind of results 

19 that DOE's looking for? 

20 MS. WIDDER: So I will note, just 

21 before you respond, that this -- DOE recognizes that, 

22 but this would only be applicable to testing-based 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 136

1 methods. So if you were to test the bare pump alone 

2 and use a calculation-based method, these 

3 requirements would not be required, because you're 

4 not measuring input power to a motor or drive. 

5 You're not measuring power. You're measuring speed 

6 and torque. 

7 So that would be an option for 

8 manufacturers where this is out of reach. But as 

9 Doug mentioned, we do need a way to make sure that 

10 the measured input power to the motor is accurate. 

11 So if there's additional suggestions or a relaxing of 

12 these tolerances that you think is acceptable, both 

13 from your perspective and DOE's perspective, we'd 

14 appreciate that. 

15 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah, pardon me. Let's 

16 finish. Paul, go ahead. 

17 MR. RUZICKA: I was just going to say 

18 maybe what we need to do is we need to discuss this 

19 with motor and drive manufacturers, I think to 

20 understand just how much is the impact of loosening 

21 this up to more conventional incoming power factors 

22 and voltage imbalances, typical by normal line power 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 137

1 supplies that are available, that the pump 

2 manufacturers are using today. 

3 So this would have to be under a great 

4 deal of focus, to be able to understand the impact on 

5 the repeatability, reliability of the data and 

6 perhaps add some additional tolerances to the 

7 equipment, to make it feasible for the pump 

8 manufacturers to do it within their walls. 

9 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Dan, you're next. 

10 MR. DELANEY: Yeah. Dan Delaney, Regal 

11 Beloit. Obviously, I speak on behalf of NEMA as well 

12 too. So let me first address the issue, and then 

13 I'll come back to the question. When we talk about 

14 preferences from the NEMA organization, motor control 

15 providers, we're really looking at CSA C838. 

16 There is no perfect standard, 

17 unfortunately today, that is out there in the 

18 industry, at least released. There is some 

19 development of one. But anyway, at the release 

20 point, we would prefer CSA C838. It is derived from 

21 the IEEE 112 requirements. So we'd prefer that to AHRI 

22 1210. While it borrows some of the requirements, it 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 138

1 doesn't do it completely throughout. 

2 So we would prefer that across the board, 

3 plus it allows additional points, let's say, that may 

4 be of more interest to the pump manufacturers, versus 

5 an HVAC standard is obviously focused on a fan curve. 

6 Back to your question, though, about 

7 loosening the requirements. That has been one of our 

8 difficulties in, let's say in emerging fields 

9 somewhat. When you talk about variable speed motor, 

10 certainly induction motors have been around for some 

11 time being supplied. 

12 But it's not a clean standard that is out 

13 there today. Again, as I mentioned, there's a very 

14 good one in development. Unfortunately, it will not 

15 be probably released in the period of time that this 

16 standard rulemaking can probably utilize. But if I 

17 had my preference, I would still go for the C838. 

18 It bases obviously on the equipment, the 

19 testing, the lab practices that are already based on 

20 what motor manufacturers are using today. Just to 

21 try to draw some parallel with what the pump industry 

22 would be faced with going forward with the 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 139

1 accuracies, is to state that many manufacturers did 

2 not have that ability just like pump manufacturers to 

3 do that. Third party test labs did obviously rise up 

4 to fill some of those needs. 

5 That would be probably my only 

6 recommendation, because loosening those requirements 

7 could essentially make all technologies equal, and 

8 that's the unfortunate part about loosening the 

9 requirements. That doesn't benefit let's say the end 

10 requirement there, is essentially it would not allow 

11 technologies really to let's say differentiate 

12 themselves and provide those energy savings that 

13 really are there, that if you loosen the requirements 

14 may make them feel essentially the same. 

15 CHAIR BROOKMAN: So we need to move on 

16 pretty quickly here. Paul, go ahead. 

17 MR. RUZICKA: Just one thing. Based on 

18 some testing that we've done between motor 

19 manufacturers on their dynometers, and this is 

20 exclusive to motors, not controls; we don't have that 

21 depth of experience yet, because we haven't gone 

22 there. But just understanding that what the motor 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 140

1 manufacturer does with full power and power 

2 conditioning, power factor correction, they derive an 

3 efficiency, and then when we run it on our dyno with 

4 our line power, we regulate the voltage as best we 

5 can. 

6 Generally, because we're running slightly 

7 less power factor and slightly more phase imbalance, 

8 the net result is the driver efficiency is lower than 

9 what the motor manufacturer achieved. So if we test 

10 in the lab with normal incoming power, we would be 

11 showing and demonstrating a lower value of efficiency 

12 than what the motor manufacturers with their -- or 

13 third parties would have with power conditioning. 

14 So if we can still be allowed to test, 

15 recognizing that we're probably going to be lower in 

16 efficiency because of the incoming power, power 

17 factor to power factor corrections, that I think if 

18 we can demonstrate that we're still making the test, 

19 we're doing okay. 

20 MS. WIDDER: So I'm going to encourage you 

21 to submit those suggestions and data. I think that 

22 specifically the data would be very helpful for DOE 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 141

1 to consider, and also encourage additional 

2 conversations between the pump and motor 

3 manufacturers to occur offline, if that's all right, 

4 and we're going to keep going. 

5 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yeah, I just want to 

6 clarify one thing, and I may have misunderstood 

7 something you said. But you said, you know, your ask 

8 is that you be allowed to test with what I'm going to 

9 call higher variation, because of the investment 

10 required for some of these, realizing that it may 

11 very well affect your ultimately rated values. 

12 So it doesn't work like that. The reason 

13 we have these tightened -- you're going to be held to 

14 that standard no matter what. The reason we have 

15 these tolerances is that both when you test, but also 

16 when we test to verify compliance, that we get 

17 answers that are reasonably the same. 

18 So you're not going -- there is no lower 

19 level that we would consider, and perhaps I'm 

20 misunderstanding the point you're trying to make. 

21 But I did want to make clear that that level is going 

22 to be that level. There is no -- we are happy to 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 142

1 reconsider the tolerances, and perhaps you should 

2 talk to motor manufacturers, with some of the stuff 

3 that they've been through over the past 10 to 20 

4 years that they've been regulated. 

5 But there is no -- there's not going to be 

6 a lower level that you're going to be able to -- 

7 MR. RUZICKA: No, I'm not stating that 

8 there's a lower level. 

9 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul, follow on. Paul, 

10 keep going. 

11 MR. RUZICKA: Not that there's a lower 

12 level there, but because we're not testing it with a 

13 fully conditioned power, as the motor manufacturers 

14 do, our results will not look as favorable. So if we 

15 test it, our results will be favorable. You take it 

16 to a lab that has this capability, and you're going 

17 to get better than what we get. So we have better 

18 results than what we have. 

19 MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. I mean to the 

20 extent that we would call that conservatively rating, 

21 to the extent that works for you. Okay. 

22 CHAIR BROOKMAN: We're going to keep 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 143

1 pressing on here. We've got a lot of content. 

2 MR. FERSTROM: This is Gary. I'd like to 

3 make a quick comment. We're working on similar test 

4 procedures for pool pump motors in California, and I 

5 know that's going to come up at the DOE level later. 

6 But we're similarly recommending the CSA standard. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

8 MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. We're going to 

9 keep moving. I'm going to try and actually get 

10 through the next two clarifications and not stop for 

11 comment until the end. Hopefully, they won't be 

12 quite as controversial. So the measurement equipment 

13 clarification is also for testing of controlled pumps 

14 in particular, and DOE also reviewed the 

15 previously-referenced standards that are applicable 

16 to continuous controls, to which the testing-based 

17 approach would be appropriate, and determined that 

18 the electrical measurement equipment for measuring 

19 input power to a variable speed drive or other 

20 continuous control may not be sufficient. 

21 So DOE's requiring that measurement of 

22 power occur with electrical measurement equipment 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 144

1 capable of measuring current, voltage, and real power 

2 up to at least the 40th harmonic of fundamental 

3 supply source frequency, and having the accuracy 

4 level plus or minus 2 percent of full scale, when 

5 measured at the fundamental supply source frequency. 

6 This is consistent with the specified 

7 electrical measurement equipment in the AHRI and CSA 

8 standard. So DOE's just transferring that 

9 requirement to the pump test procedure, when we're 

10 measuring input power to those specific devices. 

11 The next modification to HI 40.6 is to 

12 determine the pump input power at the specific load 

13 point. So as previously referenced, we need pump 

14 input power at exactly 75 percent of BEP flow rate. 

15 And you may or may not have measured the pump input 

16 power at exactly 75 percent of input power, 75 

17 percent of BEP flow rate. 

18 So to get there, DOE is proposing, and 

19 this was discussed in the working group, a linear 

20 regression of the 60, 75, 90, 100, 110, 120 percent 

21 of expected BEP flow rate data points that occur as 

22 part of HI 40.6. So basically you linearly 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 145

1 interpolate everything besides the 40 percent of BEP 

2 flow rate, because there might be some non-linearity 

3 at significant part loads, and then use that 

4 interpolated curve to determine the pump input power 

5 at exactly 75 percent. 

6 In the working group we also -- we 

7 discussed a couple of methods, but this was in 

8 general agreed to and recommended by the working 

9 group. So DOE requests comment on these two 

10 additional modifications. 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Dan. 

12 MR. DELANEY: So Dan Delaney, Regal 

13 Beloit. I just want to make one more mention of 

14 this, because of NEMA's position about this. On AHRI 

15 1210, that's not a standard that's really developed 

16 for use in this industry. While it is guidance, I 

17 understand the references a little bit, how you 

18 represent it from a requirements standpoint. 

19 We just want to make clear that that is 

20 not a standard that we would endorse at all for use 

21 in variable speed testing. So when you get into the 

22 details of the test procedure, I do understand you'll 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 146

1 get into further. But I just want to make sure that 

2 was understood. That's not a test standard that a 

3 motor drive manufacturer would utilize for their type 

4 of product. 

5 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. Any additional 

6 comments, gentlemen, before we move on? 

7 (No response.) 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: We're going to move on. 

9 MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. So we already 

10 took our break, so we're keeping going. We're going 

11 to talk about the next topics are determination of 

12 driver efficiency -- 

13 (Off mic comment.) 

14 MS. WIDDER: Determination of driver 

15 efficiency and then review of the calculation and 

16 testing-based methods, and then we have a little bit 

17 of discussion of the sampling plan and burden. So 

18 we're going to need to go quickly in this section as 

19 well if want to eat lunch. So that is encouraging us 

20 all, to limit our comments just to very high level 

21 issues, and I'll try to limit myself as well. 

22 So determining motor efficiency or losses 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 147

1 is required for a pump, regardless of the 

2 configuration in which it's sold. We've already 

3 reviewed this idea in general. So this now on the 

4 top rows, you can see the metric applicability. So 

5 we have PER/CL or PER/VL for pumps sold with motors 

6 and pumps sold with motors and controls. They will 

7 use the nominal full load motor efficiency. 

8 You can see that for covered polyphase 

9 electric motors, that the nominal full load 

10 efficiency, determined in accordance with the motor 

11 test procedure. So that's why the calculation-based 

12 method is only applicable to those motors. For 

13 submersible motors, the default motor efficiency, 

14 which we'll present the table later on. 

15 But it's only those default motor 

16 efficiencies. Otherwise, the testing-based method 

17 must be applied, and for non-covered polyphase 

18 electric motors similarly, the testing -- only the 

19 testing-based method can be applied. There's no 

20 calculation, and so therefore no assumption about 

21 motor efficiency. 

22 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob Boteler. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 148

1 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 

2 MR. BOTELER: I would just make one 

3 correction. On the top right, where you say 

4 "standard for general purpose," the new regulation 

5 coming out includes definite and special purpose, and 

6 a lot of the product we're talking about here would 

7 fall into that category. So by the time this rule 

8 comes out, it will be covered. 

9 MALE PARTICIPANT: Your CFR reference is 

10 right. 

11 MS. WIDDER: Yep. 

12 MR. BOTELER: Yeah, the CFR reference is 

13 right. 

14 MS. WIDDER: It's just the type, the 

15 nomenclature. 

16 MR. BOTELER: Right. 

17 MS. WIDDER: Okay, great. Thank you for 

18 that clarification, and we all want to make sure we 

19 get that nomenclature right, specifically in the 

20 regulatory text. So then moving over to the PER/CL 

21 for bare pumps and the PER standard for all pumps, 

22 bare pumps, pumps with motors, pumps with motors and 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 149

1 controls, the nominal full load of motor efficiency 

2 would be the motor standard. 

3 For NEMA Design A, Design B, and IEC 

4 Design N motors, that proposal was made based on 

5 discussions in the working group. But that -- those 

6 categories of motors were the categories of motors 

7 most commonly paired with pumps. DOE's requesting 

8 comment on that. 

9 So you can see that that is consistent for 

10 covered and non-covered electric motors, but for 

11 submersible motors for PER standard and PER/CL for 

12 bare pumps, we're continuing to use the default 

13 submersible motor efficiency. So submersible motor 

14 efficiency is consistent for submersible pumps. The 

15 default motor speed is for everybody, equivalent to 

16 the nominal speed of the rated pump. We discussed 

17 how to determine that previously, and the default 

18 motor horsepower for pumps sold with motors is the 

19 motor -- of the motor with which the pump is sold. 

20 For bare pumps that are not sold with a 

21 motor it is, as we discussed, the horsepower 

22 equivalent to or greater than the measured pump shaft 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 150

1 input power at 120 percent of BEP flow. We discussed 

2 although that previously. We just needed a specific 

3 criteria, such that everyone would assume the same 

4 motor size, and 120 percent of BEP flow was selected. 

5 Yes. 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

7 MR. RUZICKA: In the event of submersible 

8 motors, that product is sold utilizing full NEMA 

9 motor service factors. All those products are sold 

10 with full service factor. So I would amend that the 

11 submersible motors be allowed to be utilized up to 

12 service factor. 

13 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Utilized up to the 

14 service factor? 

15 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Service factor. That 

16 means? 

17 MR. RUZICKA: Including the service 

18 factor. If you have a NEMA service factor of a 1 

19 horse motor which is 1.4, you're going to be able to 

20 use 1.4 horsepower. 

21 MS. WIDDER: 1.4. Okay, got it. 

22 MR. RUZICKA: So if the motor is a 1 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 151

1 horse motor, right, and it's got NEMA service factor 

2 of let's say 1.4, it's sold -- you can utilize up to 

3 1.4 horsepower in the product. So -- 

4 MS. WIDDER: Right, and so this would be 

5 applicable to bare pump case, where we would just say 

6 for submersible motors, 120 percent of BEP flow 

7 multiplied by the service factor. Is that what 

8 you're saying? 

9 MR. RUZICKA: No. I'm saying that if it 

10 -- the bare pumps are sold for a given horsepower 

11 rating. They're not sold for different horsepower 

12 ratings. So if you buy a submersible pump, you're 

13 buying a bare pump but it's a 5 horsepower liquid 

14 end, for instance. 

15 MS. WIDDER: Right. 

16 MR. RUZICKA: You would have to use the 

17 NEMA service factor for 5 horsepower, which would be 

18 1.15, which would be 5.75 horsepower. 

19 MS. WIDDER: So instead of -- instead of 

20 120 for that? 

21 MR. RUZICKA: Yeah. 

22 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 152

1 MR. RUZICKA: So you wouldn't say sold to 

2 the full NEMA horsepower of the liquid end supply. 

3 CHAIR BROOKMAN: You're referencing -- 

4 MS. WIDDER: Based on the BEP horsepower 

5 of the pump? 

6 MR. RUZICKA: Based on service factor 

7 horsepower which the pump would be sold with. 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: The service factor refers 

9 to the variation? 

10 MS. WIDDER: Yep, we got it. 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, we got it. 

12 MR. RUZICKA: You know what it is. 

13 MS. WIDDER: Okay, yep. 

14 MR. DELANEY: I'm not sure if I completely 

15 understand, because service factors, the 

16 efficiencies, the nominal flow efficiencies would not 

17 apply to service factor. So if that's what you're 

18 asking, then that would not be, because that's not 

19 part of the regulation today. Service factor would 

20 not apply to service factor or full efficiency. 

21 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

22 MR. RUZICKA: Unlike a lot of the surface 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 153

1 motors, submersible motors are designed for much 

2 lower temperature rises and things like that. So the 

3 actual efficiency at service factor is more often the 

4 same or higher than full load horsepower, because 

5 these are truly designed to be utilized with a full 

6 service factor. They're fully submerged, they're 

7 very, very cold low temperature rise motors, 

8 typically in the 40 to 60 degrees C rise. 

9 CHAIR BROOKMAN: So I would say that would 

10 be applicable. Maybe that has to be reviewed in your 

11 submersible section, but obviously not applicable to 

12 any of the current regulations. 

13 MR. RUZICKA: Right. 

14 MS. WIDDER: Right, okay. 

15 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, got you. 

16 MS. WIDDER: Submersible only. 

17 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, got it. 

18 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So this table 

19 basically just defines, for a given pump 

20 configuration, how do you determine what motor 

21 efficiency, motor horsepower, motor speed do you 

22 assume to apply the calculation-based method. That's 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 154

1 what we're getting at there. 

2 Here is the table of default motor 

3 efficiencies at 10 CFR 431.25 for NEMA Design A, B 

4 and IEC Design N motors. You can see there it's 

5 differentiated by enclosed and open motors for 2 

6 and 4 poles. That's all that's listed here, 

7 because that's what's applicable to the pumps test 

8 procedure as proposed. 

9 DOE's proposing to use the minimum of 

10 enclosed or open. So you can see in the purple, 

11 again same coloring. Over on the left-hand side, the 

12 minimum of the enclosed or open motor, which would be 

13 the assumed motor efficiency for 2 and 4 horsepower 

14 motors. I'm going to keep going. This is basically 

15 the table in the CFR. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: And this is what we 

17 referenced in the working group? 

18 MS. WIDDER: Yep. Okay, all right. We'll 

19 keep going? 

20 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, Mark. 

21 MR. HANDZEL: Sorry sir, but our technical 

22 group that reviewed this made the comment that, you 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 155

1 know, your nominal efficiency, from what we 

2 understand, means that it's the average efficiency of 

3 a large population of motors of the same design. 

4 Thus 50 percent of them could actually fail and not 

5 meet nominal efficiency. 

6 So our technical team would prefer to that 

7 you use the minimum efficiency value from NEMA MG-1, 

8 Part 1 or NEMA MG-1, Part 12, Table 12-10. So 

9 otherwise, you know, we're being penalized. So that 

10 would just be our request, and we'll clarify that 

11 further but we think -- 

12 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Is this another point of 

13 consultation? I don't know. 

14 MS. WIDDER: I think Ashley has something 

15 to add real quick. 

16 (Off mic comments.) 

17 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Microphone. 

18 MS. ARMSTRONG: I think we will look at 

19 it. We're pretty, I will say, perhaps you've teed up 

20 a good discussion between DOE and the motor 

21 manufacturers for future regulatory issues. I would 

22 say we're pretty weary of changing from our 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 156

1 regulatory metrics, specifically because what we've 

2 done here is, as Sarah will get to, is utilized a 

3 ratio. 

4 That's important to us, because as your 

5 motor standards increase, that ratio is going to go up. 

6 It's not going to be the same if I use the minimums 

7 in that table. I could probably figure out 

8 something, but at the same time I think there's a 

9 long history with nominal and why we got there and 

10 what it may mean, and there has been an initiation of 

11 a conversation about potentially moving away from 

12 something like that in the future one day. 

13 I don't know that we'd be willing to 

14 necessarily change from CFR references to MG-1 

15 references, for a variety of reasons. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

17 MR. HANDZEL: So sorry to have to kind of 

18 put a remark in. 

19 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark. 

20 MR. HANDZEL: How do we get a standard 

21 like that for pumps, I guess would be a comeback? 

22 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark, Paul, Paul. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 157

1 MR. RUZICKA: I'm sorry. The only 

2 condition, the only thing I'm going to throw back at 

3 is if we don't use minimally efficient or minimum 

4 NEMA efficiencies, then that entire discussion we 

5 just had about power supply and regulation is kind of 

6 a little bit muted. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, Brent. 

8 MR. ROSS: Umm, of course the issue behind 

9 it is whether a manufacturer will want to test to get 

10 the ratings, and if they test, using the nominal puts 

11 the testing at a disadvantage. And we already talked 

12 about the power regulation, the way that may put the 

13 testing at a disadvantage, and the bottom line may be 

14 throw up our hands and say we'll just use the 

15 calculated method, which I don't think is in people's 

16 best interest, or the industry's best interest. 

17 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thanks. Thanks for 

18 the clarification. We're going to press on. 

19 MS. WIDDER: Thank you for that comment. 

20 Okay, yes. We definitely recognize all the issues. 

21 So to the submersible motor full load efficiency 

22 table, I promise that I would describe a little bit 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 158

1 how this motor efficiency table was generated. So 

2 submersible motors are not currently subject to DOE 

3 energy conservation standards. They don't have a 

4 default assumption. 

5 So DOE proposed to establish a default 

6 table of motor efficiencies, with first submersible 

7 motors, to pair with VTS pumps or bare pumps sold 

8 with submersible motors, when using the calculation 

9 method and/or when calculating PER standard. 

10 The way DOE determined this table was we 

11 conducted a survey of as many submersible motors as 

12 we could find industry literature and data on. From 

13 that database, we determined the minimum observed 

14 full load efficiency. We've listed it here for 2 

15 poles, because that was the minimum in all cases. 

16 But it would apply equally to 2 and 4 pole motors. 

17 The observed number of bands below the 

18 full load efficiency in Table 5 in 10 CFR 431.25, 

19 this is applying the NEMA nomenclature of efficiency 

20 bands, and basically tying these minimum observed 

21 efficiencies at the specific horsepower bins, to the 

22 DOE codified standards for electric motors. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 159

1 So when -- so we're all referencing the 

2 same table, and these aren't sort of like static, 

3 just this table that DOE published at one point in 

4 time. So that you can see the number of bands for 

5 each horsepower bin, the specific bins. DOE then 

6 recognized that, you know, our survey of the industry 

7 may not have been comprehensive. 

8 And so to further make sure that this was 

9 in fact representative of minimum efficiency 

10 submersible motors, we took the minimum of a 

11 horsepower range. So 1 to 5 horsepower, 5 to 25, 

12 30 to 75, and 100 to 250, and took the minimum of 

13 those specific horsepower bins. So this is 

14 specifying a pretty minimally efficient submersible 

15 motor, but tying it to the motor efficiencies for the 

16 other motors that pumps would be paired with. 

17 So you can see applying those bands in the 

18 third column to the table at 10 CFR that was in 

19 the previous slide. You get these in the blue 

20 columns, these efficiencies for 2 and 4 pole motors. 

21 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

22 MR. RUZICKA: Sarah, we've looked at some 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 160

1 motor manufacturers that we predominantly use in our 

2 industry, and several of these motor minimum 

3 efficiency values are still higher than what these 

4 guys are publishing. So we'll provide you some 

5 updated data in a table. 

6 MS. WIDDER: That would be very helpful to 

7 us. 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob. 

9 MR. BOTELER: Speaking as Nidec, not as 

10 NEMA, as a manufacturer of vertical motors, we would 

11 be competing with this and feel that the levels ought 

12 to be consistent or nearly consistent with the 

13 requirements that we have for vertical motors. But 

14 we would recognize that there's two different types 

15 of submersible motors. 

16 There's some that are manufactured that 

17 have wet rotors, and there's a lot of them that are 

18 manufactured that have dry rotors. We would 

19 recommend that there be two tables, one for the wet 

20 rotor and one for the dry rotor, and the test method, 

21 if we're going to have a metric and have the levels 

22 of efficiency, the test method ought to be consistent 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 161

1 with what we are required to do with the DOE test 

2 method today. 

3 MS. WIDDER: So that's an important point 

4 about the test method that I want to be clear about. 

5 The test procedure is not proposing to require 

6 testing of submersible motors, or use of any 

7 manufacturer published efficiency information. The 

8 table would be the only efficiencies that could be 

9 assumed in the calculation method, to determine PEI 

10 of submersible motors. 

11 If you wanted to represent improved 

12 performance of a submersible motor, you would have to 

13 test it with the pump via the wire-to-water method. 

14 So that's one point. So there doesn't need to be a 

15 test procedure for submersible motors, and then 

16 regarding how this data was collected, it is 

17 important to note that because there isn't a test 

18 procedure, this was a DOE survey of manufacturer 

19 literature. 

20 It's not clear how that data was 

21 collected, and that's a point that we acknowledge. 

22 It is just what is available, and so we appreciate 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 162

1 any additional data from manufacturers or users of 

2 submersible motors. 

3 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

4 MR. RUZICKA: Yes Paul. I just wanted to 

5 clarify. I want to make sure that people understand 

6 why submersible motors have fairly low efficiencies. 

7 They're submersible motors. They have hermetic 

8 sealing. They have a very, very large air gap, and 

9 within that air gap there's a metal liner that 

10 induces significant eddy losses, along with much 

11 higher windage losses, because now you're filling 

12 that gap with a 50 percent polypropylene and glycol 

13 water mixture that's quite viscous. 

14 Along with that, you have other mechanical 

15 constraints, such as Kingsbury-type bearings to take 

16 the axial thrust generated by the pump liquid end. 

17 So all these features drive this motor efficiency 

18 much, much lower. That, along with a long, skinny 

19 rotor, you know, very long slender rotor, you have a 

20 lot more iron losses, a lot more core losses. 

21 So these motors are much more, how can I 

22 say, much lower efficiencies than what's typical of a 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 163

1 surface motor. So just for the team and the group 

2 here for understanding, and why -- yep. And this is 

3 VTS only product 4 and 6 inches. So we've got 

4 to be very careful with that. 

5 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Rob. 

7 MR. BOTELER: And that's -- this is Rob 

8 Boteler. And that's why when I mentioned that 

9 there's two different types, because we have looked 

10 at the type with air, and we see no reason why we 

11 couldn't go to 1212. 

12 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

13 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So that's -- thank you 

14 for your comments on the default assumed motor 

15 efficiency. I'm now going to move on to determining 

16 motor losses. This method would be applied to the 

17 motor in the calculation method, regardless of 

18 whether you're using the default motor efficiencies 

19 we just discussed, or the nominal full load motor 

20 efficiency of a covered electric motor. 

21 This was also discussed at length in the 

22 working group. When calculating PER standard or 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 164

1 PER/CL, we wanted to represent that the full load of 

2 motor efficiency changes as a function of loading, to 

3 generate the way in which that loading or the 

4 efficiency changes, you determined the full load and 

5 part load motor losses at 25, 50, 75 and 100 percent 

6 of BEP or of loading of the motor. 

7 DOE reviewed data submitted by NEMA, as 

8 well as data in the Motor Masters database and Motor 

9 Challenge, which is a DOE program. So as much data 

10 that we could find about efficiency of motors at part 

11 load. We developed this curve, which is shown here. 

12 You have coefficients and the cubic polynomial. 

13 The next slide, I think, has a depiction 

14 of it. Here it is. Here's all the data and DOE 

15 selected the maximum losses, or the minimum 

16 efficiency in all of the data. So the red is the 

17 most conservative loss fraction. That's what the 

18 coefficients are determined, based on -- you can see 

19 the other data that is sort of falling down in 

20 between that. 

21 Then DOE determined that the losses at 

22 each load point, this is the bottom three, would be 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 165

1 determined based on taking the full load losses times 

2 this loss factor that was determined. This is 

3 described in more detail in the NOPR, and there's 

4 also a memo in the docket describing this analysis 

5 method. So I will take any brief comments on it at 

6 this point, but also encourage written comments. 

7 MR. RUZICKA: Unfortunately we missed one 

8 comment on page 110 of NOPR, which was something 

9 where we needed to talk about, just real briefly, the 

10 proposal to conduct all calculations and corrections 

11 in nominal speed or using raw data values. Are we going 

12 to be using the raw data, or are we going to be using 

13 extrapolated data using affinity laws? 

14 Because raw data means at pump running 

15 speed. Extrapolated means to the pole speed that 

16 you're going to be calculating to. 

17 MS. WIDDER: So that's two different 

18 things in a way. So the raw measured values that come 

19 out of HI 40.6 are not to be -- are to be modified or 

20 normalized to pump speed, and then all of these 

21 calculations will be applied to them, and then the 

22 proposal is rounded at the very end. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 166

1 MR. RUZICKA: Okay. So the question was 

2 answered. You're going to want the data -- it's not 

3 raw data, but normalized data? 

4 MS. WIDDER: Yes. As part of the test 

5 procedure, you normalize to rated speed. 

6 MR. RUZICKA: Okay. But the data says 

7 using -- the statement says using raw data, we should 

8 say "using normalized raw data." 

9 MS. WIDDER: I get -- yes. That's a good 

10 clarification. 

11 MR. RUZICKA: Okay. 

12 MS. WIDDER: Okay, and I will note that 

13 not all of the requests for comments are in the 

14 slides. 

15 (Off mic comment.) 

16 MS. WIDDER: Yeah, okay, great. On this? 

17 Okay. We also will fully consider written comments. 

18 Okay. So this is going to discuss in more detail the 

19 calculation and testing-based methods. We discussed 

20 their applicability earlier. This will look 

21 hopefully extremely similar to slides that we've gone 

22 over in the working group. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 167

1 MS. ARMSTRONG: With that in mind, I'm 

2 actually going to ask. Before we go and present 

3 every one of these, are there ones that we can just 

4 hit on a high level? Are there certain issues that 

5 you had a chance to look at? Do you want to take 

6 lunch and look at them? I'm trying to catch up here, 

7 because we're pretty behind, and so I do want to get 

8 to the standards and at least have some discussion of 

9 that before running out of time today. 

10 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Maybe we should pause for 

11 lunch and let them look and flag the areas that 

12 really require discussion. 

13 MS. ARMSTRONG: Right. I know you guys 

14 still want to talk about the representation date and 

15 the U.S. Code thing you brought up at the very 

16 beginning in your opening remarks. We can definitely 

17 do that, not a problem. But outside of that are 

18 there, you know, most of this stuff was discussed in 

19 pretty nitty-gritty detail as part of the working 

20 group, and by no means am I trying to cut your 

21 comment availability or questions short. But just in 

22 -- yep. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 168

1 MR. HUBER: Al Huber. From our 

2 standpoint, we have no -- we have no issues that we 

3 think you need to discuss, at least down through 

4 Issue 60. 

5 MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. 

6 MR. HUBER: No actually 63. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Start at 63. 

8 MR. HUBER: We won't need to -- we don't 

9 have any comment other than 63, except the only 

10 comment we made is -- the caveat to that is that you 

11 make a correction to the calculations, which you've 

12 already done. 

13 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes. We've already 

14 committed to doing, correct. 

15 MR. HUBER: We're happy with that. So as 

16 far as we're concerned from our group, we don't need 

17 to even discuss it until you get to Issue 63. 

18 MS. ARMSTRONG: Great. So is there anyone 

19 else in the room that would like us to go through 

20 this, or should we break for lunch and give you a 

21 chance to at least look at it? Because I know Dan 

22 looks like he's ready here to jump in. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 169

1 (Off mic comment.) 

2 MS. ARMSTRONG: So perhaps break for lunch 

3 now, regroup after one, and then I'm going to plan to 

4 start up with slide, let's see -- 

5 (Off mic comments.) 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: We'll go all the way to 

7 page 84. 

8 MS. WIDDER: Issue 63 isn't presented in 

9 the slides right now, but we -- all right. I would 

10 have to look it up. 

11 MS. ARMSTRONG: We're going to start 

12 somewhere between roughly 80-ish and 90, so if you 

13 have a particular opinion about where that is, let us 

14 know when you get back. 

15 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah, and also you can 

16 flag any other slide that we haven't covered, if we 

17 need to back up, okay. So we're going to break for 

18 lunch. It's now 12:30. We have now proven that 

19 numbers of individuals have shown that they can do 

20 lunch here in 45 minutes. It's been proven once. 

21 (Off mic comments.) 

22 CHAIR BROOKMAN: We've got a lot to cover 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 170

1 here. I was going to suggest 45 minutes, right, and 

2 the fastest place is probably the Subway shop down on 

3 the ground floor and the big cafeteria, which means 

4 we'll be resuming at 1:15. 

5 Please make sure you've got your ID. This 

6 room will be secured. You can leave your stuff here, 

7 and we'll see you back here. Take a look at these 

8 slides over lunch, so we don't miss anything. 1:15. 

9 (Whereupon, a luncheon recess was taken.) 

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 171

1 A F T E R N O O N S E S S I O N 

2 (1:27 p.m.) 

3 CHAIR BROOKMAN: We're about to resume, so 

4 please take your seats. So maybe we've confirmed 

5 that it's more than 45 minutes for lunch. Another 

6 group did it one time, and maybe we need to be close 

7 to an hour here to get everyone back. 

8 (Off mic comment.) 

9 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, okay. Let's make 

10 sure the record captures that, and I'm sure that your 

11 reward will certainly be there in heaven or wherever 

12 at some point in the future. 

13 (Off mic comments.) 

14 CHAIR BROOKMAN: So at lunch, as we broke 

15 for lunch, Ashley was asking you to take a peek at 

16 these slides. There's a lot of detailed content 

17 here. We literally left off on slide 70, and asking 

18 you to review them, thinking that maybe some of these 

19 we can skip. Maybe many of them we can skip and Al, 

20 I believe your last comment was that you'd reviewed 

21 them and you didn't have any substantive, major 

22 issues, except for one or two further on in this 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 172

1 context. 

2 I didn't want to diminish anyone's 

3 capacity to comment on any of these slides. But if 

4 folks are pretty comfortable with a lot of them, then 

5 maybe we can just advance. Dan. 

6 MR. DELANEY: So Dan Delaney for Regal. 

7 What were we proposing? Where were we going to start 

8 from the slide number? 

9 MS. WIDDER: We had talked about somewhere 

10 starting around slide 80. 

11 MR. DELANEY: Okay. So I guess my only 

12 comment, back to some earlier discussions with Sarah 

13 and Ashley before we broke, the reason I didn't 

14 mention some of the other standards at Lucas, who had 

15 been involved in the ASRAC before, there are some 

16 standards out there in development. 

17 One's released. It's the European 

18 standard, EN 50598. Sarah mentioned she has reviewed 

19 it, reviewed some of the content of the information. 

20 We'd love to propose that. Unfortunately, it's a 

21 European standard. It's not 60 Hz obviously 

22 normalized for our sake. There is a IEC standard in 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 173

1 development. 

2 But just some of the conversations that we 

3 had here, you know. I don't think we do need to 

4 review this, as Sarah mentioned. You know, much of 

5 that conversation still can be discussed in some of 

6 the future stuff. But I just want to make that 

7 comment, that obviously the work that the motor and 

8 drive manufacturers are focused on is an IEC 61800 

9 standard that does take a look at this motor and 

10 control method. 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: And just the time table 

12 on that is? 

13 MR. DELANEY: So the time table on that is 

14 actually out for vote now. It could be released in 

15 2015 if there are no major technical hurdles. So it 

16 could be as early as October, maybe as late as 

17 December. But if there are technical hurdles to the 

18 standard, then it would carry into probably 2016, 

19 because you'd have to make revisions. 

20 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

21 MS. ARMSTRONG: This is Ashley from DOE. 

22 I think realistically from our perspective, that 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 174

1 that's a great idea for the future. I'm not sure 

2 that at this juncture where we are and where we need 

3 to go. We can look at it, but I'm not sure that we 

4 would be able to move to that method now, only 

5 because what we'd need to understand is with that -- 

6 with that method and with the changes for the motors 

7 and controls, how would that impact PEI and PER from 

8 a pump-specific perspective, and I'm just not sure. 

9 Maybe I don't know the answer to this, but 

10 I'm not sure that the data exists to specifically 

11 compare what we have proposed today and then what the 

12 PEI and PERs might be, in conjunction with the pumps 

13 using that method. 

14 MR. DELANEY: So good point, and I guess 

15 what I'm not -- I'm not proposing in whole adoption, 

16 because it's not ready. But if there's elements of 

17 that. There's two elements I think that are probably 

18 the most important. There is the 

19 interpolation/extrapolation method that's defined as 

20 a statistical method. That's very helpful. 

21 So obviously from the data that's there, a 

22 common method to the points that the pump 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 175

1 manufacturers are going to need obviously for their 

2 data. 

3 And then second of all, the whole concept 

4 of reference losses, already incorporated, right, in 

5 this concept. The reference dry losses, which 

6 obviously I missed because maybe it's in a TSD, maybe 

7 it's in other information. I didn't see it in the 

8 test NOPR. I didn't go in the NOPR I guess in enough 

9 detail. 

10 But nonetheless that definition of 

11 reference control losses is a benefit, and as Sarah 

12 said, we'll provide some comments and information 

13 there. Hopefully that's helpful. But again, we 

14 understand it's not -- can't directly reference the 

15 standard, because it's not released. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. So we're proposing 

17 to pick up at slide 80, unless someone needs us to go 

18 back. Oh I see. Paul please, let us know what we 

19 needed. 

20 MR. RUZICKA: Yes. We wanted to comment 

21 on Issue 63, which unfortunately wasn't part of the slide 

22 deck. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 176

1 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yes, and how would -- 

2 MS. WIDDER: I'm just going to read Issue 

3 63, and then -- 

4 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Please do. 

5 MR. RUZICKA: Please. 

6 MS. WIDDER: Okay. DOE requests comment 

7 on its proposal to determine BEP for pumps rated with 

8 testing-based methods, by using the ratio of input 

9 power to the driver or continuous control, if any, 

10 over pump hydraulic output. DOE also seeks input on 

11 the degree to which this method may yield 

12 significantly different BEP points, from the case 

13 where BEP is determined based on pump efficiency, 

14 which is the case for bare pumps. 

15 Just a tiny bit of background. DOE 

16 proposed this method because under the wire-to-water 

17 testing method, if you measure input power to the 

18 motor or control and pump hydraulic output power, 

19 determining shaft input power to the pump or speed 

20 and torque is not required. 

21 And so that would be an additional 

22 measurement, if BEP were to be determined based on 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 177

1 pump efficiency. So from a burden-reducing 

2 perspective, considering that it might not be that 

3 different, we proposed that BEP for tested products 

4 be based on the overall efficiency, as opposed to 

5 pump efficiency. That was the basis for it, but we'd 

6 welcome comments on that. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

8 MR. RUZICKA: Yes. Well, the Hydraulics 

9 Institute believes that we can only determine the 

10 true BEP for the product rated, the pump being rated, 

11 through a bare pump test. 

12 So it has to be using the same flows. 

13 Otherwise, it's going to add additional burden for 

14 more testing, because now you'll have to test the 

15 different flow rates, and then redetermine BEP based 

16 on different configurations. 

17 MS. WIDDER: So this would only be for a 

18 pump sold with a motor that is not tested as a bare 

19 pump. If you were to test it as a bare pump, and 

20 then test it as a bare pump with calculations 

21 associated with the motor, we'll consider that 

22 comment, certainly. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 178

1 MR. RUZICKA: According to the standard, 

2 you would have to test the bare pump in order to get 

3 those numbers, regardless. 

4 MS. WIDDER: If you only sold the pump 

5 with a motor, and you only tested it and you didn't 

6 perform any calculation-based approach, that would be 

7 the case in which this applies. But since it's -- 

8 you're recommending that we use pump efficiency in 

9 all cases, that will just mean additional testing is 

10 required in that case potentially. 

11 MR. RUZICKA: Actually would reduce the 

12 test burden, because now you'd have flow points that 

13 you'd be able to utilize during your constant load 

14 with a given motor or your variable load. Now you'd 

15 have those defined with previous testing. So you 

16 wouldn't have to repeat testing to redetermine a new 

17 location of a BEP based on the configuration of the 

18 product. 

19 MS. WIDDER: Okay, noted. 

20 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, Paul. 

21 MR. RUZICKA: Thanks. 

22 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, yeah. So now, with 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 179

1 no additional questions or comments, we're going to 

2 go to slide 80 and pick up there. 

3 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So I just wanted to 

4 also mention in relation to Dan's comment, this is 

5 the efficiency, combined efficiency of a motor and 

6 control, that is proposed to be used for the 

7 calculation-based approach, for pumps rated with a 

8 motor and control. So this assumes losses associated 

9 with a motor and control, as defined previously. 

10 Some of the standard EN 50598 that Dan was 

11 referencing would put -- would be relevant for 

12 consideration here. So would potentially replace 

13 this material, supplement this material. But this is 

14 where it would be applied, when we're considering 

15 efficiency of the drive or drive losses. Just for 

16 everyone so we're all on the same page. 

17 Now we're going to Slide 80. Okay. So 

18 this is discussing the physical testing-based 

19 approaches. We sort of glossed over the 

20 calculation-based approaches, but I think we 

21 discussed that at a high level previously. You 

22 test the pump. You have assumptions about motor 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 180

1 full efficiency and motor performance at part load, 

2 and assumptions about the control, if present. 

3 Then you combine all that via an algorithm 

4 and you get a resultant PEI. If you are rating a 

5 pump that is not -- that is sold with a motor that's 

6 not covered by DOE's energy conservation standards, 

7 or it's covered, but you want to test the 

8 product, or it's rated with non-continuous controls. 

9 You'll remember that slide. 

10 I actually think this slide, where we 

11 showed where testing and calculation-based approaches 

12 were applicable. So there's cases where only the 

13 testing-based approaches apply. So I'm just going to 

14 talk through those testing-based approaches real 

15 briefly. This is actually discussing the point that 

16 Paul brought up. So here, you're determining via a 

17 wire-to-water test the performance of a combined pump 

18 and motor. 

19 The green arrows indicate measurement 

20 points as proposed in accordance with the DOE test 

21 procedure. You'll noticed there's no measurement in 

22 between the pump and the motor. So for this basic 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 181

1 model, right, as proposed in the NOPR, there's no 

2 measurement of pump shaft input power. 

3 Therefore, it's not possible to determine 

4 pump efficiency, which is why DOE proposed that the 

5 BEP be determined based on overall efficiency, for 

6 the purposes of determining PEI, PER and calculating 

7 the necessary metrics. And then you would just 

8 weight those -- the input power measured to the motor 

9 at the three load points to get your PER, take a 

10 ratio to get PEI. That's pumps sold with a motor. 

11 It looks like Paul has an additional comment. 

12 (Off mic comment.) 

13 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Yep, no problem. So 

14 similarly for a pump sold with a motor and control, 

15 now the green arrow is expanded to include the 

16 control. Again, you're measuring just energy into 

17 the pump, and hydraulic power out. You take a ratio 

18 of those values. This is extremely similar to the 

19 previous procedure for pumps and motors. 

20 The main difference is -- are that you 

21 would determine the BEP of the pump based on overall 

22 efficiency but at full speed. So at the rated speed 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 182

1 of the pump, and then the testing would allow speed 

2 reduction to achieve the same points that are on the 

3 reference system curve, which we sort of blew past. 

4 So I'll just show that here. 

5 This was discussed in the working group. 

6 It's a reference system curve. More or less follows 

7 the affinity laws, but based on the recommendations 

8 of the working group, it incorporates a static head 

9 component, which is slightly different than the 

10 fundamental affinity laws. 

11 So you would calculate the flow and head 

12 points at 100, 75, 50 and 25 percent of BEP flow 

13 rate, following that green curve, and basically 

14 throttle down your speed and maybe adjust the head to 

15 achieve those points with the tested product, and I 

16 have a picture of what that might look like. 

17 So here we are. There's the -- the red 

18 points are the rated flow rates that you calculated, 

19 based on the reference system curve, and the blue 

20 points are hypothetical tested points, where you're 

21 within this 10 percent bound around flow and head, 

22 and then you adjust back to the rated system curve or 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 183

1 the reference system curve, based on linear 

2 interpolation of the head and flow points. 

3 So we're going back to where we're 

4 supposed to be, but allowing for some test tolerance 

5 there, but following the reference system curve. So 

6 that's for continuous controls. That would be the 

7 testing based method. Here's where we get to the 

8 multi-speed motor non-continuous control approach. 

9 This is the only method that's applicable for non10 continuous controls. You have to test. 

11 So again you see the red points that 

12 correspond to the rated values, where you know, the 

13 calculated flow and head point, based on the 

14 reference system curve. But in this case you'll see 

15 that the blue points are not achieved by the 2- 

16 speed motor in this case, because there's only full 

17 speed and half speed. So you can't follow the system 

18 curve completely. 

19 You would adjust the flow rate to the 

20 appropriate value, and then based on your motor 

21 ratio, operate at the appropriate speed, which may be 

22 on the full speed curve or may be on the half speed 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 184

1 curve. And in this case, instead of interpolating, 

2 you would use the measured head. 

3 So you would just use -- that's why 

4 there's not, you know, error bars in both directions 

5 here. You just use the measured head. You do 

6 interpolate the flow rate, and you only interpolate 

7 up. So if you were to be below this curve, you can 

8 get back to the reference curve. But if you're up 

9 here, this is the head that you would have to use. 

10 That's laid out in detail in the NOPR. We 

11 have request for comment on those proposed methods. 

12 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Paul. 

13 MR. RUZICKA: On the full system curve, 

14 the full VL, again the same comment applies to the 

15 location of the BEP. 

16 MS. WIDDER: So you'd like it to be based 

17 on pump efficiency? 

18 MR. RUZICKA: Correct. 

19 MS. WIDDER: Okay. So this is just a 

20 summary slide of the application of testing-based 

21 test methods, based on pump configuration. So you'll 

22 notice that the testing-based method isn't applicable 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 185

1 to bare pumps, but tested wire-to-water performance 

2 as proposed is applicable to the pump, regardless of the 

3 configuration in which it's sold. 

4 Either the pump plus motor 

5 PEI/CL method or the pump plus motor controls PEI/VL 

6 method, and we have numbers here, B.2, C.2. The 

7 calculation-based we refer to as A.1, 

8 B.1, C.1, just to keep them all straight. This is a 

9 summary slide of both the calculation-based test 

10 method and physical testing-based test method for -- it's 

11 taking those diagrams of pumps and creating words, so 

12 we could fit everything on the slide. 

13 But basically the pump, applicable pump 

14 configurations and then the two, one or two methods 

15 that would be applicable to that case. DOE requests 

16 comment on a number of items, but generally how the 

17 proposed test methods are applied to the different 

18 pump configurations, dependent on the type of motor 

19 control with which the pump is sold. 

20 We can go back to this slide. In general, 

21 we tried to give people as much flexibility as 

22 possible. So that's why we have testing or 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 186

1 calculation options, so you can do either. But in 

2 some cases, we couldn't do the calculation. That was 

3 our general approach. 

4 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Yeah, well you want to -- 

5 yeah. Hey -- 

6 (Off mic comments.) 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: I was thinking that -- I 

8 was going to let this consultation go on for a little 

9 bit, because it seemed like you're -- 

10 (Off mic comments.) 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: No need, okay. Mark 

12 Handzel. 

13 MR. HANDZEL: No, I was just going to -- I 

14 mean obviously, we're still trying to digest the 

15 whole power quality issue that we talked about 

16 earlier, and all of these are influenced by that. 

17 MS. WIDDER: Uh-huh. 

18 MR. HANDZEL: So you know, we said we were 

19 going to try to give you some guidance on that. But 

20 all this stuff is, you know, we're just kind of 

21 listening at this point, because we're trying to 

22 figure out how we're going to address that. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 187

1 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 

2 MR. HANDZEL: Okay. 

3 (Off mic comments.) 

4 CHAIR BROOKMAN: So let the -- okay. So 

5 then written comments on all of this, and then we'll 

6 proceed with Sarah. 

7 MS. WIDDER: Okay. The next slide 

8 discusses representations of energy use. We 

9 discussed this a little bit when we were discussing 

10 the basic model concept. 

11 MS. ARMSTRONG: So why don't you let me do 

12 these? 

13 MS. WIDDER: Yes. Go for it. 

14 MS. ARMSTRONG: So I think this is an area 

15 for which we have some questions. So the way this 

16 works is we have a statutory provision that kicks in. 

17 Upon DOE issuing a final rule of a test procedure, 

18 and as clarified in the proposed rule, 

19 representations of energy use or energy efficiency 

20 must be made in accordance with the DOE test 

21 procedure, beginning 180 days from adoption of the 

22 final rule. 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 188

1 There are some nuances here, and we did 

2 acknowledge that some of the values needed to do such 

3 things that are in the standard rules, that we need 

4 to marry up those dates in recognition of that. 

5 Another thing we did that was pump-specific in the 

6 rule was to talk about exactly what types of other -- 

7 recognizing that you guys make a lot of 

8 representations now, and that we are pulling together 

9 different pieces of -- for motors, controls and then 

10 the pump, to ultimately get to that final regulatory 

11 metric of PEI and PER, we did talk about some interim 

12 values that you may get from the test procedure, or 

13 you may get from other things you are doing now, that 

14 you would be able to continue to be able to use or 

15 make representations of. 

16 Typically, the way this works is once DOE 

17 issues the final rule, you must make representations 

18 of efficiency only with their metric. So while 

19 there's some nuances that are associated with pumps, 

20 I'm going to try to head off the question before we 

21 get there. 

22 So one of the things I think that's 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 189

1 important to note here is that since the final rule 

2 is coming down the pathway, that representations of 

3 PEI and PER are going to be voluntary, in the interim 

4 period between the 180 day time frame and the 

5 compliance date of standards. 

6 So if you decide to make representations 

7 of PEI and PER, you must do it in accordance with our 

8 test procedure. However, it's at your discretion to 

9 do it until the compliance date of the standards, 

10 should that rule be adopted as proposed. So you have 

11 that time period to get everything in order, and once 

12 you start doing it, you need to do it in accordance 

13 with our test procedure for PEI and PER. But you do 

14 have some leeway there. 

15 I don't think that answers all of your 

16 question that I know is coming, but I think that's 

17 what we're willing to explain today, and then we will 

18 go back and try to -- go ahead, I'll let you ask it 

19 first. 

20 MR. HUBER: Al Huber. Well you know, our 

21 concern is that we market every day with pump 

22 efficiency, and we have curves and we have all kind 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 190

1 of electronic versions of that and all these other -- 

2 and they're a representation of efficiency on our 

3 product. 

4 If within 180 days we had to pull all that 

5 back, we'd have no sales tools, which the market 

6 wouldn't like, because they would be asking us, you 

7 know, they would be asking us for these curves. So 

8 that obviously won't work. 

9 So it is our assumption that as long as we 

10 don't quote it as meeting a PER or a PEI or whatever, 

11 as long as we don't do that, until such time as we 

12 have tested it with this method and followed these 

13 guidelines, then the representation that we are 

14 making today are perfectly acceptable, until such 

15 time as the regulation comes into effect; is that 

16 correct? 

17 MS. ARMSTRONG: So I can't say yes or no 

18 today. But, but we will answer it before the close 

19 of the comment period. I will get back to you with 

20 an answer shortly. I think what you're asking us 

21 basically is DOE, can we continue to make 

22 representations of our pump, which come in a variety 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 191

1 of different things, as long as we don't make 

2 representations of the DOE regulatory metric within 

3 that interim period? 

4 And then as we transition to do that, we 

5 understand that our responsibility is to transition 

6 all of them at the same time over that period of, you 

7 know, the compliance date, four years, three years, 

8 whatever it is. And so I think that's all right to 

9 ask, and give me a week or so to get the right 

10 wording through my counterparts, and we'll get back 

11 to you. 

12 MR. HUBER: Okay, thank you. 

13 MS. ARMSTRONG: Yes. 

14 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Joanna. 

15 MS. MAUER: Just quickly, I don't remember 

16 where we ended up on this, but I think there was a 

17 little bit of discussion related to the issue of 

18 manufacturers having the option if they want to make 

19 representations about PEI before the compliance date 

20 of the standard, and if manufacturers are interested 

21 in that option, it may be useful if it's possible for 

22 the DOE certification database to be up and running, 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 192

1 to facilitate incentive programs in the meantime 

2 before the compliance date. 

3 MS. ARMSTRONG: We can do that, if that's 

4 what you want. Is that what you want? 

5 MR. HANDZEL: Well I mean we have -- 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark Handzel. 

7 MR. HANDZEL: Sorry. We have interested 

8 utilities already asking us for that data, you know. 

9 They want us to agree to a standard that is based on the 

10 calculator and everything else. So obviously we need 

11 a way to be able to report that data, so that we can 

12 do what they want to do too. So I would say as soon 

13 as the DOE could get it up, we would start populating 

14 it. 

15 MS. ARMSTRONG: Fair enough, thanks. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Brent. 

17 MR. ROSS: I would just expand on Al's 

18 comment on sales tools in the information we list 

19 today. You know, they're not -- sales tools are used 

20 by our customers for their detailed application 

21 comments, and basically they could not use our 

22 product without having that information. So that 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 193

1 would be included in the term "sales tools." 

2 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Right. Thank you, okay. 

3 MS. WIDDER: I think one additional point 

4 that I'll just -- written comments on this would be 

5 great. But you see a number of metrics listed here 

6 that are not in the bright blue, pump efficiency, 

7 overall efficiency, bowl efficiency, input power, 

8 etcetera, etcetera. Those are all not the 

9 DOE-regulated metric. 

10 MS. ARMSTRONG: So just -- and you did make a

11 point to point out some of these metrics. But your question 

12 still applies, and my answer still applies, about 

13 we're not ready to quite say yes or no yet. 

14 MS. WIDDER: Right. 

15 I just wanted to know if 

16 anything else should be on the list of metrics. 

17 (No response.) 

18 MS. WIDDER: Okay. Moving on. so the 

19 next couple of slides, we are making great progress. 

20 Good job everyone. It's about sampling plans for 

21 pumps. So sampling plans in general essentially 

22 describe the number of specific units that a 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 194

1 manufacturer must test, in order to determine a 

2 certified rating. 

3 So you have to typically test at least two 

4 to get an average. I know that that number is 

5 representative of the population of pump units that 

6 you're representing with that basic model rating. So 

7 that's in general the concept. 

8 DOE proposed in the NOPR that manufacturers must 

9 determine the certified rating for pumps, similar to 

10 the manner that's applied to other commercial 

11 equipment, based on testing of a randomly selected 

12 sample of sufficient size, such that the PEI/CL or VL 

13 shall be greater than or equal to the higher of the 

14 mean of the sample. So if you have two, that's why 

15 you need at least two to create a mean, or the upper 

16 95 percent confidence limit of the true mean divided 

17 by 1.1. 

18 This is basically applying the statistical 

19 method to account for manufacturing variability and 

20 test tolerances, in determining the certified rating. 

21 To pass in either case, whichever is higher to pass 

22 or be in compliance with the standard, the certified 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 195

1 rating determined would need to be less than 1.0 on 

2 the compliance date of the energy conservation 

3 standard, if adopted. 

4 So DOE requests comment on the proposed 

5 sampling plan, and specifically data about the 

6 manufacturing variability or variability of tested 

7 equipment is helpful in determining what these 

8 thresholds should be. 

9 MR. HANDZEL: Mark Handzel. We agree with 

10 the sampling plan. 

11 MS. WIDDER: Great, thank you. 

12 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Thank you, any additional 

13 comments here, noting that we're trying to keep 

14 moving it right along. 

15 MS. WIDDER: Okay. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

17 MS. WIDDER: So the very last slide 

18 that I have to present today is about -- there's a 

19 lot of details in the NOPR, that I encourage everyone 

20 and especially manufacturers to review. DOE 

21 conducted a regulatory flexibility analysis of the 

22 proposed test procedure, which basically tried to 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 196

1 quantify the burden associated with complying with 

2 the test procedure. 

3 We've had a little bit of discussion here 

4 today about purchasing new equipment or what might -- 

5 what upgrades might be necessary to pump test 

6 facilities as they currently exist, to conduct the 

7 test procedure in accordance with the proposal. 

8 So DOE performs an analysis to try to 

9 determine what the burden associated with 

10 constructing the test facility, to conduct the 

11 testing would be, and amortize that based on the 

12 annual sales. DOE also focused in particular on 

13 small manufacturers of pumps, using the SBA size 

14 standard of less than or equal to 500 employees, 

15 based on the NAICS code listed for pumps and pumping 

16 equipment manufacturers. 

17 DOE determined that there's 25 small 

18 manufacturers, and applied this burden specifically 

19 to those small manufacturers. The goal of the 

20 Regulatory Flexibility Act is to determine if there 

21 is a significant impact on a small number -- if there 

22 is an impact, a significant impact on a number of 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 197

1 small entities, or something like that. 

2 So we look in particular at the small 

3 manufacturers, the number of basic models that would 

4 require to be certified by large and small 

5 manufacturers, and then specifically the burden, and 

6 all the details associated with this calculation and 

7 what you assumed in the NOPR, and we request comments 

8 on those assumptions, and especially additional data 

9 that would help us revise those estimates, if 

10 necessary. 

11 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Mark Handzel. 

12 MR. HANDZEL: So Mark Handzel. So Sarah, 

13 we've obviously covered some points today that, you 

14 know, we have a great deal of concerns about the 

15 burdens that some of the parts of the test NOPR are 

16 going to cause the industry, in particular small 

17 manufacturers. 

18 You know, I think, you know, you can go 

19 through a laundry list, but clearly the power quality 

20 is huge on our list. I think, you know, we also -- 

21 there's some other points where there's some comments 

22 about the cost of a test lab, and you know, we think 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 198

1 some manufacturers are going to have to build new 

2 test lab, and we think the cost that you guys are 

3 using is significantly below. 

4 But we really -- we don't have specific 

5 survey data, but I think you need to -- well not you, 

6 but obviously if the group came out and interviewed a 

7 number of us, I just think it might be worthy of 

8 going back and asking who's built a test lab lately 

9 and what did you spend, because we think that would 

10 be noteworthy. 

11 I think the last thing just that, you 

12 know, certainly we know that there are third party 

13 test facilities available, but due to some of the 

14 things, you know, they don't necessarily have power 

15 quality equipment either. You know, so how would DOE 

16 even test pumps at a third party if you can't find 

17 somebody who has power quality? 

18 So I just think this whole area, it all 

19 kind of feeds on itself, that it requires a lot more 

20 discussion. You know, certainly we talked at lunch 

21 and the NEMA guy said why don't we get together and 

22 talk about how you test and we'll talk about how we 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 199

1 test and, you know, we'll do that together, help us 

2 form our written comments. 

3 But you just start to see this is 

4 something we never talked about in the working group 

5 and, you know, raises some very serious concerns for 

6 the pump industry. 

7 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay, thank you. 

8 MR. HANDZEL: I think Al would add to 

9 that. 

10 MR. HUBER: Oh yeah. I just want to add 

11 that when you came out and did the surveys, people 

12 were thinking about or manufacturers were thinking 

13 about just running tests. They didn't have all the 

14 particulars that you have in this document, which 

15 certainly changed the cost of doing it. So I think 

16 you need to be aware of that. 

17 So the information that you got originally 

18 is probably not accurate, because it wasn't based on 

19 the requirements that you have. This, we kicked it 

20 around a good bit about the power quality, and it is 

21 ^^^^ that is going to be huge for every 

22 manufacturer, because none of us, none of us have 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 200

1 that equipment to do it. 

2 We have no idea how much it will cost. We 

3 have some idea of just controlling the voltage is 

4 going to cost somewhere between 50 and 100 thousand 

5 dollars, and that's just that piece of equipment, and 

6 then we've got to worry about power factor and the 

7 rest of it. 

8 So you know, it's kind of like asking the 

9 motor people to go get hydraulic test equipment, to 

10 test their motors with. I mean it's something that 

11 we'll have to go look at. But I do want to caution 

12 the Department to be careful with this, because this 

13 could severely impact the small and medium-sized 

14 manufacturers, to the point they may not be able to 

15 comply. 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

17 MS. ARMSTRONG: Can I ask one question 

18 though? 

19 MR. HANDZEL: I just have one last thing 

20 too, just one second. It's big for large 

21 manufacturers too, because I have three plants in the 

22 U.S., all within their own test labs, okay. So each 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 201

1 one of them would have to have these upgrades that 

2 we're talking about. So it's -- 

3 MS. ARMSTRONG: Well, if we get rid of the 

4 power quality issue or at least table it for now, or 

5 have more discussions about the ways to reduce it, 

6 does that eliminate most of the concerns that we're 

7 hearing about? 

8 MR. HUBER: It certainly goes a long way 

9 towards helping us with this. 

10 MS. ARMSTRONG: I just want to make -- 

11 MR. HUBER: It's the biggest problem we 

12 see. 

13 MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay. I just want to 

14 clarify, because I mean for the -- let's put it this 

15 way. You know, 95 percent of our proposal is either 

16 largely based on the HI method, for which you guys 

17 were all involved in, or what you guys negotiated 

18 and/or are doing today. So some of that -- so I get 

19 the power quality issue is well taken. I think there 

20 are some kind of things, further conversations and 

21 some issues that we can work out. 

22 But I just wanted to understand if, you 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 202

1 know, assuming that goes away or is dealt with in 

2 appropriate manner that is resolved to all parties' 

3 liking, seemingly that would eliminate the concerns 

4 you guys are speaking of, for the most part. 

5 MR. HANDZEL: So Mark Handzel, just to 

6 answer that Ashley. I would just say that the power 

7 conditioning is clearly number one and the single 

8 most largest that would impact all of us. But I 

9 think the data acquisition is for the smaller guys -- 

10 MS. ARMSTRONG: Great, but you're going to 

11 propose a solution for that for us. 

12 MR. HANDZEL: Right, right, no exactly. 

13 So we are going to come back with a recommendation. 

14 I think if you wanted to scale them up, clearly power 

15 conditioning has turned into our single biggest 

16 issue. 

17 MS. ARMSTRONG: Okay, fair enough, thanks. 

18 MR. FERSTROM: So this is Gary for the 

19 California Utilities. Power quality is a big factor 

20 that affects us. So if we're going to be talking 

21 about integral pump motor products, we want to know 

22 all about how those are going to treat our electric 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 203

1 grids, as well as what water we get out of it. 

2 Anything short of that isn't satisfactory, because 

3 it's electricity in with all of its warts, versus 

4 water out. 

5 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

6 MR. FERSTROM: You folks from the 

7 Northwest have anything to add to that? 

8 (Off mic comment.) 

9 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. 

10 MS. ARMSTRONG: I don't think -- so I do 

11 think there's a little bit of difference in things 

12 that we're talking about. Your point's well taken 

13 about you want to understand what that's doing. But 

14 I think that our requirements are more on the input 

15 side and conditioning it for the input side, versus 

16 necessarily the output side, which I think is what 

17 you're interested in, in terms of what it would do to 

18 your grid. 

19 MR. FERSTROM: Well actually -- 

20 MS. ARMSTRONG: I understand they're 

21 interrelated but -- 

22 MR. FERSTROM: Yeah, but when you use the 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 204

1 term "output," we're interested in measuring the 

2 input, and you're interested in specifying the 

3 quality of what goes in, so that measurement can be 

4 accurate. 

5 MS. ARMSTRONG: Great. So to Gary's 

6 point, and this is I'm going to turn it to you guys, 

7 how do you feel about measuring power factor? 

8 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Al Huber. 

9 MR. HUBER: We do it. 

10 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Go ahead and answer. 

11 MR. HUBER: Yeah, we'd do it. We do 

12 measure power factor. 

13 MS. ARMSTRONG: How do you feel about 

14 reporting it? 

15 MALE PARTICIPANT: With equipment we don't 

16 have? 

17 MR. HUBER: It's not necessarily equipment 

18 that we have, all of us have, but we certainly could 

19 -- we certainly probably could do that. But I 

20 guess the solution is, Gary, that the power companies 

21 give us good power. 

22 (Laughter.) 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 205

1 MR. HUBER: Then we don't have a problem. 

2 Well, I want to make this point right quick, and then 

3 I'm going to be quiet. I think, I think you need to 

4 understand. What we're saying is if we're using less 

5 quality power and we're reporting those measurements, 

6 those will be less than what you will get if you have 

7 good power in the field. You will perform better. 

8 So I mean that's what you've really got to 

9 be concerned about. Am I going to be getting 

10 something better or something worse? You'd be 

11 getting something better if you got good power. 

12 MR. FERSTROM: So Al, all you have to do 

13 is move your plant to California. 

14 MR. HUBER: Not a chance. 

15 (Laughter.) 

16 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. I'm going to 

17 suggest we move on here. 

18 MS. WIDDER: Yep, I think so. So that is 

19 the end of the test procedure discussion. 

20 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Maybe we should pause and 

21 just applaud right now. 

22 (Applause.) 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 206

1 MS. WIDDER: Great work everyone. 

2 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Louis, please go ahead. 

3 MR. STARR: So I just had a question about 

4 the certification report. So in the NOPR it says are 

5 all the fields that are on the certification report 

6 going to show up in the database? We would like it, 

7 how about that? 

8 MS. ARMSTRONG: Not necessarily. I think 

9 that that is a slide, Dan and Alison can correct me 

10 if I'm wrong, in the ECS or no? 

11 MR. WEINTRAUB: No. 

12 MS. ARMSTRONG: I think just the answer is 

13 not, okay. 

14 MR. STARR: Can we request certain items? 

15 MS. ARMSTRONG: Sure, absolutely. 

16 MR. FERNSTROM: Okay, and we're going 

17 to go there during the power input at different test 

18 points. 

19 MR. STARR: Gary should be concerned about 

20 this, the power input at different test points. 

21 That's the one you'd like to see, right? 

22 MR. FERSTROM: Yeah exactly, and you know, 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 207

1 we talked about measuring power factor. We're 

2 interested in true power factor, because when you get 

3 into pump motor combinations that may have variable 

4 speed drives, there are all sorts of power quality 

5 implications that we'd like to know about. 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: So that was Louis Starr, 

7 followed by Gary, and now we're going to make -- 

8 Louis, one more, go ahead. 

9 MR. STARR: So Louis with NEEA. So one of 

10 the things, maybe Gary and someone else, we can work 

11 on that. But there are in that database. So the 

12 certification report will have all the information on 

13 it. But when a piece of paper's in a filing cabinet, 

14 it's hard to run your programs, unless you have 

15 access to all that paper. 

16 So there are certain items, and it doesn't 

17 necessarily need to other things. But a few things 

18 off the certification report that I think would need 

19 to be in there, in order to run the utility programs. 

20 So maybe Gary and I and whoever will get together and 

21 suggest those items. 

22 MS. ARMSTRONG: That would be great, 
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 208

1 thanks. 

2 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Okay. So now we're going 

3 to make the transition. We don't need a break do we? 

4 Let's keep going shall we? Rob. 

5 (Off mic comments.) 

6 CHAIR BROOKMAN: Good, so and just to be 

7 clear, we've already made arrangements. There will 

8 be a new transcript for the energy conservation 

9 standard, which I'm about to queue and get going, 

10 unless we have our break from -- you need a break? 

11 Okay. We need five minutes, five minutes. Everybody 

12 can make a run to the restroom, and then we're going 

13 to resume right here in this room, okay? Five 

14 minutes, energy conservation standard. 

15 (Whereupon, at 2:05 p.m. the morning 

16 meeting was adjourned.) 

17

18

19

20

21

22
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 209

A

A.1 185:7

A.7 121:14

a.m 1:11 4:2

abbreviated 108:3

abbreviations 65:5

ability 26:18 139:2

able 10:1 40:20

92:15 97:7 102:13

122:18 127:2

137:4 142:6

150:19 174:4

178:13 188:14,14

192:11 200:14

absolutely 8:22

31:13 206:15

accept 46:12

acceptable 136:12

190:14

accepting 16:19

access 40:5 56:19

207:15

accessible 9:19

accomplish 21:15

50:15 51:1 58:5

61:15 62:5 85:4

128:8

accomplishing 53:6

56:4

account 40:6 194:19

accounts 117:17

accuracies 139:1

accuracy 133:16

144:3

accurate 134:18

136:10 199:18

204:4

achieve 58:6 88:9

97:1,7,20 99:8

102:15 135:18

182:2,15

achieved 134:21

140:9 183:15

acknowledge 28:11

161:21 188:2

acquisition 122:17

124:7 202:9

acronym 49:18

acronyms 49:12

Act 196:20

action 20:9

actively 11:22

actual 15:19 20:1

124:11 125:13

153:3

add 28:19 32:17

39:4 40:1 58:10

128:11 137:6

155:15 177:13

199:8,10 203:7

added 23:19

addition 19:21

94:13,16 113:18

additional 11:7

23:22 24:4 25:16

36:11 46:10 48:1

57:15 58:8 59:7

76:21 77:17 106:3

110:7,10 129:2

131:9 134:21

136:11 137:6

138:3 141:1

145:10 146:5

162:1 176:21

177:13 178:9

179:1 181:11

193:3 195:12

197:8

additives 79:6

address 11:10 70:5

86:19 137:12

186:22

addressed 71:11

adds 38:6 117:15

adequately 36:2

adjourned 208:16

adjust 96:10 97:21

182:14,22 183:19

adjusts 96:22

adopt 134:5

adopted 189:10

195:3

adoption 174:15

187:21

advance 172:5

advantage 108:21

adversely 124:5

advocate 63:9

affect 25:2 33:1

71:17 141:11

affiliation 5:16

affinity 96:12

102:11 165:13

182:7,10

afternoon 4:7 91:13

91:17,18 121:10

afterthought 80:10

agencies 11:18

agency 34:9 40:9

agenda 7:22 8:2

agree 19:4,5,12

21:22 23:11 31:3

36:6 57:17 80:2

98:2 119:4,21

132:17 192:9

195:9

agreed 16:1,6 20:15

29:11,11 31:6

35:8,15,15,18

36:6 37:1 80:2

145:8

agreeing 36:7

agreement 16:1,8

36:13,13 87:16

agrees 16:8

ahead 10:10 26:10

37:20 40:12 75:19

82:19 87:20

116:17 123:3

127:12 136:16

139:16 189:18

204:10 206:2

207:8

AHRI 134:8,12

137:21 144:7

145:14

air 9:13 162:8,9

163:10

Al 6:15 10:13,14

12:5 19:10 29:9

32:10 35:1,1 36:5

37:13 62:7,15

123:22 168:1

171:19 189:20

199:8 204:8

205:12

Al's 192:17

Albert 2:7

Alex 2:20

algorithm 180:3

aligned 17:13

aligns 19:9

Alison 3:4 7:8 38:13

87:13 88:18 206:9

allocated 85:15

allow 88:2 128:1

139:10 182:1

allowable 85:10

123:2,12 127:22

128:12

allowed 28:17

140:14 141:8

150:11

allowing 10:17 33:6

183:4

allows 26:21 31:21

33:14 106:19

138:3

aloud 20:6

alternative 135:18

alternatively 34:4

amend 150:10

America 2:22

amortize 196:11

analysis 11:3 116:3

116:12 165:4

195:21 196:8

analyzed 116:22

and/or 158:9 201:18

Anderson 2:17

Aniruddh 2:12

42:13

announced 58:15

71:6

annoying 42:14

annual 196:12

ANSI/HI 57:1 63:7

65:3

answer 40:20 41:15

43:17 44:14

123:10 124:11

125:18 126:21

127:4 174:9

190:18,20 193:12

202:6 204:10

206:12

answered 166:2

answers 141:17

189:15

anybody 83:3 89:7

anyone's 9:6 15:8

33:13 172:2

anyway 39:13 42:15

137:19

anyways 97:12

apologize 53:3

Appearances 2:1

Appendix 121:7

applaud 205:21

Applause 205:22

Appliance 2:9 4:19

7:1

applicability 109:10

110:1 147:4

166:20

applicable 17:14

21:5 24:1 43:3,21

44:9 46:20 49:17

64:11,13 66:7

78:8 85:2 95:12

97:17 100:5,11

101:5 102:12

103:14 105:12

107:18,22 110:16

119:11 120:6

121:6 132:7

133:10 135:22

143:15 147:12

151:5 153:10,11

154:7 180:12

183:9 184:22

185:2,13,15

application 58:18

68:4 78:17 94:11

96:4 184:20

192:20

applications 67:22

68:2 69:8 80:18

applied 33:22 96:11

99:19 110:18

113:22 115:6

120:13 147:17,19

163:16 165:21

179:14 185:17

194:10 196:18

applies 28:20 29:3

46:21 129:16

178:7 184:14

193:12,12

apply 24:1,14 45:4

48:15 50:3 94:3,6

95:20 102:17,21

104:9 109:13

130:20 152:17,20

153:22 158:16

180:13

applying 95:2 96:5

102:2 103:20

106:22 116:2

158:19 159:17

194:18

appreciate 23:3

57:6 59:9 83:13

90:16 99:16

104:19 105:21

106:1 115:13

116:15 121:2

136:14 161:22

appreciated 12:12

appreciates 122:9

appreciation 12:9

approach 39:18

102:21 103:14,17

103:20 104:10

110:6,16 112:2,16

112:21 115:5

117:11,14 143:17

178:6 179:7 183:8

186:3

approaches 179:19
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 210

179:20 180:11,13

180:14

appropriate 20:21

22:12 56:8 73:18

99:6 104:20

106:18 107:3

143:17 183:20,21

202:2

April 1:12 4:8 16:18

architecture 109:22

area 187:14 198:18

areas 13:2,4 167:11

Armstrong 2:5,11

4:14,15,16 6:21

7:6,6 10:8,9 12:19

12:20 19:4,20

26:8,11,12,15

28:3 29:15,17

30:2,5,8,13,19,21

31:16 32:16,19

39:5 41:1,14

43:17 44:13 63:19

65:21 66:12,15

67:6 68:20 71:1

92:6,11 118:20

119:4 123:5,14

124:8,18,21 125:4

125:9 126:2,6,9

126:14,20 131:12

141:5 142:19

155:18 167:1,13

168:5,13,18 169:2

169:11 173:21

187:11,14 190:17

191:13 192:3,15

193:10 200:17

201:3,10,13

202:10,17 203:10

203:20 204:5,13

206:8,12,15

207:22

arrangements

208:7

arrow 181:15

arrows 180:19

artificially 38:4

Ashley 2:5 4:14,16

7:6 10:8 12:9,18

17:5,17 26:11

36:2 39:3 41:2,11

46:16,18 63:19

68:20 72:12 124:8

128:18 155:14

171:15 172:13

173:21 202:6

Ashley's 40:1 47:13

aside 87:17

asking 30:2 41:2

64:20 152:18

171:15,17 190:6,7

190:20 192:8

198:8 200:8

asks 44:20

aspects 14:21 50:14

93:7 110:20

ASRAC 10:17

172:15

assembly 60:22

assertion 34:14

125:13

assertive 127:4

assign 111:7

assist 11:19

associated 49:20

177:21 179:8

188:19 196:1,9

197:6

assume 108:20

150:3 153:22

assumed 104:1

106:13,16 107:2

109:3 111:3,6

112:3 115:2

154:13 161:9

163:14 197:7

assumes 102:8

111:16 114:22

115:1 179:8

assuming 113:20

202:1

assumption 98:11

113:13,22 147:20

158:4 190:9

assumptions 100:17

107:4 111:9,13

112:12 179:22

180:2 197:8

ATR 3:6

attached 68:15 69:5

105:5

attachment 53:11

55:3 73:15

attendee 92:12

attention 70:7

attributes 32:22

43:18

authority 13:16

41:22

authorized 17:18

authorizes 14:1

Automation 2:8

availability 167:21

available 29:6 83:5

91:11 133:20

137:1 161:22

198:13

Avenue 1:8

average 108:4,6,14

108:15 112:15

155:2 194:4

aware 64:8 199:16

Awareness 2:9 7:2

awful 80:12

awfully 8:21

axial 77:16 162:16

axial/mixed 76:16

76:19 77:4,9

axis 51:3 52:15,17

54:22 55:8 73:12

B

B 67:9 106:9 113:11

121:7 149:3 154:3

B.1 185:8

B.2 185:6

back 18:16 23:4

36:3 58:17 67:3

67:18 84:4 88:19

89:5 91:1 107:14

130:18 137:13

138:6 157:2

169:14,17 170:7

171:7 172:12

175:18 182:22

183:3 184:8

185:20 189:18

190:5,19 191:10

198:8 202:13

background 13:15

176:15

badge 90:19

bands 158:17,20

159:4,17

Barbour 2:18 6:11

6:11

bare 20:10 21:9,10

22:1 23:9 46:22

47:6,10 52:3,5,16

52:17 53:10 89:13

89:17 94:7,7,8,15

94:19 95:3,6,8,9

95:12,16 99:22

100:2,15,16,19

101:3,4 102:1

103:14,21 105:22

106:19 108:1,2

111:2,5,13 112:18

112:19,22 113:17

113:19 114:1

115:6 117:16

119:11 120:5,7,11

131:15 132:2

136:1 148:21,22

149:12,20 151:5

151:10,13 158:7

176:14 177:11,18

177:19,20 178:2

185:1

bars 184:4

base 42:4

based 38:1 39:11

41:4,20 42:16

46:1 47:9 57:12

74:9 77:10 78:4

84:5 87:5 99:9

100:4 105:11

106:4 110:16

113:13 114:16

115:9 119:14

122:2 129:13

132:4 138:19

139:17 149:4

152:4,6 164:18

165:1 176:13,22

177:4,15 178:17

181:5,21 182:7,19

183:1,7,13,20

184:16,21 192:9

194:11 196:11,15

199:18 201:16

bases 57:19 138:18

basic 24:12,18 25:5

25:7,9,19 26:1,16

26:20 27:7,16

28:18 29:1,7 31:4

38:16 45:5,9,11

45:14,20,21 46:1

46:18 47:4,12,20

47:21 84:4,5,7

130:2 180:22

187:10 194:6

197:3

basically 19:8 22:21

38:15,20 45:13

69:4,22 82:22

84:4 88:8 100:9

102:8 109:12,20

131:18 144:22

153:19 154:14

158:20 182:13

185:13 190:21

192:21 194:18

195:22

basis 16:2 36:15

42:2 50:21 177:5

basket 54:2 57:20

58:2,19,20,21

67:2,20,21 68:9

68:18 74:3,12

baskets 58:1

bearings 162:15

beginning 12:21

17:6 35:18 167:16

187:21

behalf 10:15 12:8

137:11

belief 77:7

believe 11:6 16:4,5

16:10 51:22 57:22

131:4 171:20

believed 121:5

believes 5:6 15:16

34:12 177:9

Beloit 2:22 98:5

137:11 145:13

belt 85:20

benefit 139:9

175:11

benefitting 35:6

BEP 84:11 109:5,7

112:18 113:2,14

113:20 119:15

130:12,15 144:14

144:17,21 145:1

150:1,4 151:6

152:4 164:6 176:7

176:12,13,22

177:3,10,15

178:17 181:5,21

182:12 184:15

Berkeley 3:4 7:9

best 38:10 62:21

84:1,7,9 90:3 97:3

140:4 157:16,16

better 23:8 35:4,5

36:8 38:5,9 56:22

99:2 142:17,17

205:7,10,11

big 18:3 76:17 78:1

170:3 200:20

202:19

biggest 32:13 72:16

124:1 201:11

202:15

bin 159:5

bins 158:21 159:5

159:13

bit 27:19 37:18 45:1

46:16 63:20 65:2

72:19 93:1,5
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 211

94:22 99:6 107:12

110:14 134:9

145:17 146:16

157:6,22 176:15

186:9 187:9

191:17 196:3

199:20 203:11

bits 19:16 20:1

blew 182:3

blue 18:2,3 20:17

46:10 48:9 78:1

78:11 94:19 95:10

114:9,18 120:4

159:19 182:19

183:15 193:6

board 138:2

Bob 6:11

body 121:16

Boesenberg 2:20

bold 129:21 131:9

bolded 134:6

borrows 137:22

Boteler 2:21 6:6,6

36:20,21,21 37:8

103:5,6 104:12

147:22 148:2,12

148:16 160:9

163:7,8

bottom 25:10

108:19 157:13

164:22

bound 129:8 182:21

bounds 133:3

bowl 55:10 84:14

89:3,8,10,13,14

89:17,19,20,21

90:7 193:7

bowls 55:18

box 46:9 76:2

boxes 13:1,5,11

95:1 110:11

break 8:9 60:14,16

90:13,14,18 91:3

93:4 146:10

168:20 169:2,17

208:3,10,10

Brenda 91:5,7,9,16

91:19 92:1,20

Brent 2:11 6:21

71:21,22 157:7

192:16

bridge 66:1

brief 7:22 8:3,4

165:5

briefly 74:6 165:9

180:15

bright 193:6

bring 12:15 60:19

82:5

bringing 94:10

broad 18:7 23:20

43:20 67:10 96:1

broke 171:14

172:13

Brookman 2:3 4:3

4:11 5:12 6:3,9

7:7,15,19 10:11

12:5,13,17 17:3

19:7,13,16,21

23:2 24:4,7,9

26:11 27:20 29:9

31:7,11 32:4

34:19,21 36:20

37:12,20 39:3

40:10 41:8 42:6

42:12 44:18 46:8

46:13 48:3,6 51:7

51:14 56:10 58:7

59:4,6 60:18 61:6

61:10 62:7 63:1,3

65:14 67:15 68:19

70:10,21 71:21

72:7,17 74:22

75:6 76:1,8 80:5,8

80:21 81:7 82:10

83:6 85:12 86:11

86:17 87:20 88:5

88:22 90:1,13,15

91:4 92:4,9,16

93:18 98:4 103:2

103:5 104:11,21

107:8 109:14

110:2,7 114:11

115:15 116:16

117:6 119:8,19

120:1 122:12

123:22 125:8

126:15 127:10,16

128:16 132:16

133:6,8 135:1,17

136:15 137:9

139:15 142:9,22

143:7 145:11

146:5,8 147:22

150:6,15 152:3,8

152:11,21 153:9

153:15,17 154:16

154:20 155:12,17

156:16,19,22

157:7,17 159:21

160:8 162:3 163:6

163:12 167:10

168:7 169:6,15,22

171:3,9,14 173:11

173:20 175:16

176:1,4 177:7

178:20,22 184:12

186:4,7,11 187:4

191:14 192:6,16

193:2 195:12,16

197:11 199:7

200:16 203:5,9

204:8,10 205:16

205:20 206:2

207:6 208:2,6

brought 73:3

167:15 180:16

bucket 64:5,5

build 60:6 198:1

building 1:7 4:9

90:20

built 198:8

bullet 62:5

bullets 60:20,21

burden 8:14 27:4,9

32:18 126:4

146:17 177:13

178:12 196:1,9,18

197:5

burden-reducing

177:1

burdens 197:15

business 91:7,9,19

92:20

buy 151:12

buying 151:13

C

C 4:1 153:8

C.1 185:8

C.2 185:6

C838 137:15,20

138:17

CA 3:5

cabinet 207:13

cafeteria 170:3

calculate 114:21

116:6 182:11

calculated 101:10

108:10 113:3

115:8 117:18

119:14 157:15

182:18 183:13

calculated-based

100:5

calculating 158:9

163:22 165:16

181:6

calculation 8:13

101:5 102:3,7

103:8,13 107:5

110:15,20 111:4

111:12 114:2

117:16 146:15

147:20 158:8

161:9 163:17

166:19 186:1,2

197:6

calculation-based

94:21 100:14

101:1 102:13

103:20 111:1

112:2,21 117:13

136:2 147:11

153:22 178:6

179:7,20 180:11

185:7,9

calculations 11:16

100:17 130:21,22

165:10,21 168:11

177:20

calculator 11:15

192:10

calculators 11:21

California 5:18,19

5:21 12:8 33:17

41:11 57:17 70:19

143:4 202:19

205:13

call 26:19 141:9

142:20

capability 135:3

142:16

capable 144:1

capacity 9:6 36:10

40:2 172:3

capture 72:10

117:22

captured 117:16

captures 171:10

card 91:7,9,15

92:20

cards 91:19

careful 163:4

200:12

carefully 41:14

82:15

carry 115:20

173:18

case 15:8 24:20

54:20 61:17 69:1

86:20 100:1

102:22 104:4

106:2,13,16,17

108:18 109:4

113:6,7 116:4

117:13 127:7

130:15,17 151:5

176:12,14 178:7

178:10 183:14,16

184:1 185:15

194:21

cases 111:3 119:18

134:14 158:15

178:9 180:12

186:2

casing 25:14 55:7

catch 167:6

categories 48:12,19

49:2 54:6 66:11

75:5 76:11 78:18

79:22 149:6,6

category 52:12

65:10 98:19 148:7

caucus 127:10

cause 22:21 197:16

caution 200:11

caveat 130:13

168:10

CEC 70:19

cell 9:15

Celsius 79:8 84:14

certain 10:5 39:7

67:10 167:4

206:14 207:16

certainly 72:3 83:2

104:19 138:10

171:11 177:22

198:12,20 199:15

201:8 204:18,19

certification 29:12

40:14 81:19 121:8

191:22 206:4,5

207:12,18

certified 26:22

39:10 101:12,18

111:19 128:20

129:6 194:2,9,20

194:22 197:4

certify 14:8 30:10

33:14 38:16 45:22

CFR 82:2 148:9,12

154:3,15 156:14

158:18 159:18

Chaffee 2:19

CHAIR 4:3 5:12

6:3,9 7:7,15,19

10:11 12:5,13,17

17:3 19:7,13,16

19:21 23:2 24:4,7
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 212

24:9 26:11 27:20

29:9 31:7,11 32:4

34:19,21 36:20

37:12,20 39:3

40:10 41:8 42:6

42:12 44:18 46:8

46:13 48:3,6 51:7

51:14 56:10 58:7

59:4,6 60:18 61:6

61:10 62:7 63:1,3

65:14 67:15 68:19

70:10,21 71:21

72:7,17 74:22

75:6 76:1,8 80:5,8

80:21 81:7 82:10

83:6 85:12 86:11

86:17 87:20 88:5

88:22 90:1,13,15

91:4 92:4,9,16

93:18 98:4 103:2

103:5 104:11,21

107:8 109:14

110:2,7 114:11

115:15 116:16

117:6 119:8,19

120:1 122:12

123:22 125:8

126:15 127:10,16

128:16 132:16

133:6,8 135:1,17

136:15 137:9

139:15 142:9,22

143:7 145:11

146:5,8 147:22

150:6,15 152:3,8

152:11,21 153:9

153:15,17 154:16

154:20 155:12,17

156:16,19,22

157:7,17 159:21

160:8 162:3 163:6

163:12 167:10

168:7 169:6,15,22

171:3,9,14 173:11

173:20 175:16

176:1,4 177:7

178:20,22 184:12

186:4,7,11 187:4

191:14 192:6,16

193:2 195:12,16

197:11 199:7

200:16 203:5,9

204:8,10 205:16

205:20 206:2

207:6 208:2,6

chairman 6:7

Challenge 164:9

challenging 6:2

chamber 89:13,17

89:20,21

chance 51:9 167:5

168:21 205:14

change 10:22 28:2

90:3 111:22 128:4

128:5 156:14

changed 28:6

199:15

changes 25:9 37:18

40:22 56:7 67:7

96:19 164:2,4

174:6

changing 118:13

155:22

characteristic 25:22

52:22 53:17 58:5

59:10 68:13,17

73:18 74:13

characteristics 25:2

28:2,5 44:3,8 47:2

47:8 52:8 54:5

57:7,13,21 61:14

74:9 77:3,14 82:3

83:15 111:14

114:16 129:15

133:10,14

characterize 18:5

52:19

choice 33:7

choose 99:1

chose 31:21 40:3

41:14

circle 18:2,3 48:9

49:10 78:1,1,11

78:20 89:15

circular 89:12,16

circulate 74:2,7

circulator 55:4 57:9

57:18 60:1,5,7,21

62:15 73:3,9,11

circulators 49:7

50:8,17 52:12,21

53:15,18,20 56:22

59:10,11 60:2

72:21

CL 31:5

clarification 11:12

85:7 90:3 92:3

98:6,11 116:19

118:22 119:9

143:13 148:18

157:18 166:10

clarification-type

64:18

clarifications 11:8

15:15 16:9 143:10

clarified 187:18

clarify 23:19 50:1

65:17 82:13 118:7

118:17 141:6

155:10 162:5

201:14

clarifying 71:2 86:1

117:3

clarity 51:2 54:18

class 24:20 52:20

56:6 65:10 75:3

108:7,17 115:9

classes 25:16,17

43:10 49:11,16,21

50:1,4 51:6,18

52:14 54:7 78:3

83:18 107:19

classifications 60:8

classify 98:16

clause 131:10

clean 68:2,4 78:9,10

78:11,13,14,20,21

79:11,11,12,13,14

79:17,20,21 80:16

80:17 81:17 83:18

121:17 138:12

clear 10:19 67:11

69:6 71:4,8,18

74:13 80:17 89:4

141:21 145:19

161:4,20 208:7

clearly 11:2 53:18

197:19 202:7,14

close 6:4 30:3 171:6

190:18

close- 53:20

close-coupled 49:14

50:9,18 52:11

53:8 54:9 56:17

60:6 65:8 74:14

closed 39:14

closing 39:12

code 167:15 196:15

codes 110:19

codified 158:22

coefficients 164:12

164:18

coffee 90:20

cold 153:7

collect 123:3,18,19

collected 161:16,21

collecting 128:5

collection 11:11

122:1,10,16 124:3

128:1,2

color 50:11,13

51:10 110:19

114:7

colored 53:5

coloring 154:11

colors 56:12

column 99:21,21

109:9 132:3

159:18

columns 111:1

159:20

combination 47:12

105:4

combinations 47:3

207:3

combine 180:3

combined 112:9

179:5 180:17

come 5:4 9:4 36:9

51:13 63:12 82:17

123:10 125:18

126:13 137:13

143:5 165:18

190:22 202:13

comeback 156:21

comes 45:16 58:17

62:10,15 148:8

190:15

comfortable 172:4

coming 15:15 17:1

46:6 131:8 148:5

189:2,16

comment 9:7 13:3

18:14,20,22 19:11

21:20 22:9,12

24:2 36:1 40:13

46:9,9 47:16

51:18 56:2,3

57:15 63:4,5 67:1

67:18 72:8 74:18

75:12 77:6,18

79:19 80:14 82:16

85:14 87:9 92:8

97:15 98:1,19

99:5 109:15,16,22

110:4,11 116:15

118:14,15 119:11

132:15 133:4

134:19 143:3,11

145:9 146:13

149:8 154:22

157:19 165:8

166:15 167:21

168:9,10 169:1

171:8,20 172:3,12

173:7 175:20

176:6 177:22

179:4 181:11,12

184:11,14 185:16

190:19 192:18

195:4 203:8

commentary 83:2

commented 60:20

comments 8:19 9:3

9:5 10:5,13 12:14

13:7,10,13 16:8

16:19 18:18,20

19:18 22:9,13

24:4 32:5 40:11

46:11 48:1,3 56:9

56:14 58:8 59:7

66:20 72:19 75:16

76:4 82:21 83:7

83:12 90:7,12,17

93:6,9,15 107:11

110:8,10 114:5,11

121:3 122:9

127:11 131:8

146:6,20 155:16

163:14 165:5,6

166:13,17 169:5

169:21 171:13

175:12 177:6

179:1 186:6,10

187:3,5 192:21

193:4 195:13

197:7,21 199:2

208:5

commerce 14:7 21:3

43:15 45:9,14

commercial 1:2

4:22 10:20 13:22

24:15 41:21 53:16

58:18,19 69:15,17

70:2,8,8 194:10

commission 40:7

commitment 12:4

committed 168:14

Committee 6:8

common 33:4

174:22

commonly 96:11

149:7

companies 122:17

135:14,15,15

204:20

Company 2:12,17

5:20,20,21

compare 174:11

competing 160:11
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 213

compiling 127:11

complete 9:12 91:20

completely 27:8

66:2 138:1 152:14

183:18

compliance 14:8,9

141:16 189:5,9

191:7,19 192:2

194:22 195:2

compliant 108:6,16

111:6,21 113:7,10

114:13,15 115:1,2

115:8 119:13

comply 62:12 73:9

200:15

complying 196:1

component 24:13

182:9

components 21:14

23:8

comprehensive

48:20 159:7

comprise 23:8 25:21

concept 21:11 26:7

46:21 175:3,5

187:10 194:7

concepts 79:15

conceptual 8:21

concern 72:16

124:1 189:21

concerned 75:15

96:6 168:16 205:9

206:19

concerns 33:9 39:21

197:14 199:5

201:6 202:3

concise 9:13 79:15

conclude 10:7

condensate 43:1,7

condition 135:4

157:2

conditioned 134:14

142:13

conditioning 140:2

140:13 202:7,15

203:15

conduct 134:15

165:10 196:6,10

conducted 158:11

195:21

conducting 89:7

conductive 69:20

confidence 34:10,13

40:9 194:16

confident 127:17

configuration 47:18

94:7 105:19

107:20 110:17

147:2 153:20

178:17 184:21

185:3

configurations 21:7

32:22 90:11 94:2

94:12,17 99:18

120:15 129:13

177:16 185:14,18

confirm 123:8

confirmation 19:9

19:17 20:2 46:14

confirmed 171:4

conflict 86:20

conflicts 36:12

confusion 35:3

37:13,22 38:7

conjunction 174:12

connected 53:14

73:15 127:17

consensus 5:5 20:1

conservation 4:7

11:1,5,9 14:9 17:9

17:12,16,19 18:9

19:2 94:4 101:15

106:10 121:10

158:3 180:6 195:2

208:8,14

conservative 164:17

conservatively

142:20

consider 18:6 57:4

59:21 65:19 88:15

90:6 93:9 106:22

116:2 141:1,19

166:17 177:21

consideration 8:18

9:9 38:14 179:12

considerations

39:17

considered 23:18

50:5 69:19 70:5

76:20 78:18 83:16

94:19 95:2,12

97:17 98:8

considering 49:5

54:8 94:13 177:2

179:14

consistency 54:18

133:16 134:3,7

consistent 20:18

24:15 39:18 51:22

76:14 79:16 82:8

82:10 85:9 89:1

108:11 114:8

115:7,11,20

120:20 128:20

130:3 131:19

132:9,19 144:6

149:9,14 160:12

160:12,22

consistently 18:4

89:6 102:16

consists 55:10,20

constant 107:21

109:3,4 114:14

178:13

constitutes 68:16

constraints 162:15

construct 41:9

constructing 196:10

consultation 155:13

186:8

Consulting 3:2,3

consume 21:14

consumption 25:3,3

25:6 26:4 97:8,14

98:15 99:15

consumptive 47:12

contact 69:21

content 7:21 8:12

8:17 9:1,8 12:18

15:15 16:14 17:7

79:1,3,4 83:9

93:21 103:2 143:1

171:16 172:19

context 172:1

continue 43:13

116:11 188:14

190:21

continues 37:18

continuing 149:12

continuous 95:10

95:15,18,21 96:15

96:16 97:19 99:1

101:20 102:4,6

108:1 133:11

143:16,20 176:9

183:6,10

continuously 51:20

contrary 29:10 65:6

contributed 12:10

control 23:10,16,18

23:19,21,22 94:14

95:13,19 96:1,11

96:22 97:19 98:12

99:14 100:10,20

102:6,11 108:20

112:5 115:1

117:12,12,21

133:14 134:2

137:14 143:20

173:10 175:11

176:9,18 179:6,8

179:9 180:2

181:14,16 183:8

185:19

controlled 143:13

controlling 200:3

controls 20:12

21:11 22:2 94:9

95:9,10,12,15,16

95:22 96:2,7,8,9

96:15,15,16,21

97:13,16 98:7,8

98:17 99:8 100:3

101:20,22 102:2,5

102:14 108:1

111:14 112:1,9

117:15,22 119:16

132:1 133:12,13

139:20 143:16

147:6 149:1 174:7

180:8 183:6,10

185:5 188:9

controversial

143:12

conventional

136:21

conversation

156:11 173:5

conversations 9:16

141:2 173:2

201:20

conversely 69:8

cooperation 62:20

copy 91:10

cords 5:22

core 162:20

Corporation 2:21

6:7

correct 19:10 28:3

28:20 34:11,13

61:9 86:8 116:12

168:14 184:18

190:16 206:9

corrected 118:16

129:9 132:14

correcting 115:17

correction 118:11

118:15,22 135:6,7

140:2 148:3

168:11

corrections 115:17

140:17 165:10

correctly 39:1 41:13

44:15

correspond 13:4

50:19 183:12

corresponding

18:15

corresponds 50:13

cost 135:12 197:22

198:2 199:15

200:2,4

Council 7:4

count 101:21

counterparts

191:10

couple 12:21 94:1

145:7 193:19

coupled 53:21

course 157:8

cover 21:9 121:1

169:22

coverage 44:12

77:21

covered 11:1 14:3

17:20,22 21:1

24:19 40:11 42:18

42:18 43:8,14

44:6,15 46:16

48:10 50:10 52:13

58:22 64:21 69:9

72:15 78:16 90:15

95:2 101:8,15

102:4 103:10

106:10 147:8

148:8 149:10

163:20 169:16

180:6,7 197:13

CP1 57:11 73:21

CP2 57:11 73:21

CP3 57:11 73:21

create 37:12 194:15

created 37:13

creating 66:14

185:11

credibility 42:9

creditable 42:3

criteria 128:11

150:3

CSA 137:15,20

143:6 144:7

cubic 79:2,3 80:11

164:12

current 144:1

153:12

currently 14:12

42:17 63:11 158:2

196:6

curve 30:18 37:12

37:18 96:20,20
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 214

97:6 102:9,9,12

102:17,18 111:7

111:10,16 112:4,8

114:15,22 138:5

145:4 164:11

182:3,6,13,19,22

183:1,5,14,18,22

184:1,7,8,13

curves 29:5 189:22

190:7

customer 30:15,16

35:6,11 44:20

customers 32:11

37:3,11 38:12

192:20

cut 77:8 126:10

167:20

Cymbalsky 2:4 7:5

7:5

D

D 4:1

D.C 4:10

dampening 128:2

Dan 98:4,5 137:9,10

145:11,12 168:21

172:5,6 179:10

206:9

Dan's 99:12 179:4

Danfoss 2:10 6:10

Daniel 2:22 3:2 7:10

darker 78:10

data 11:3,11 16:20

87:5 121:11,22

122:14,17 123:4,8

123:11,12,15,18

123:18,19 124:3,6

125:6,17 126:11

127:3,22 128:2,5

128:20 129:9

137:5 140:21,22

144:21 158:12

160:5 161:16,20

162:1 164:7,8,9

164:14,16,19

165:11,12,13,14

166:2,3,3,6,7,8

174:10,21 175:2

192:8,11 195:5

197:8 198:5 202:9

database 121:8

158:13 164:8

191:22 206:6

207:11

date 14:9 167:14

189:5,9 191:7,19

192:2 195:2

dated 10:21

dates 13:11 188:4

day 64:9 71:6

156:12 189:4,21

days 93:11 187:21

190:4

DB 80:15

DC 1:9

deal 137:4 197:14

dealing 122:15

dealt 202:1

December 173:17

decide 38:15 39:20

41:16 189:6

decided 67:9 86:13

86:18 118:21

decimal 115:21

decimals 116:8

deck 175:22

dedicated 73:3

dedicated-purpose

49:6 50:20 54:5

54:10 57:21 71:4

72:13,21 74:1,15

deep 8:21 66:16

default 100:17

103:22 104:5,9

106:12 107:3

147:13,15 149:12

149:15,17 154:2

158:4,5 163:14,18

Defense 7:4

define 17:20 23:7

25:15 48:13 52:10

56:21 66:7 69:12

95:11,21 121:17

defined 25:10 27:22

44:8 45:20 48:11

49:13 52:9,19

53:1 59:3 61:14

79:11,13 81:10

89:20 97:12,19

122:21 174:19

178:15 179:9

defines 49:1 70:13

89:21 153:19

defining 17:22

26:20 46:7 56:6

57:21 58:4 66:3

68:13,16 78:2

definite 148:5

definitely 39:16

65:18 70:14

116:14 157:20

167:16

definition 18:7 20:5

20:13 21:8,8 23:6

23:16,18,19 24:12

24:12,14 25:5,9

25:19 29:8 43:2,9

43:20 45:3,3,5

46:1,9 47:19

48:17 50:8,14,17

52:1 54:10,13,15

54:16 56:22 57:19

58:12 61:7,9 62:5

65:4 66:3 67:11

67:12 71:7,10,17

72:11,12 74:5

78:14 79:14,17,19

79:21 80:2 81:17

84:5 87:22 89:3

96:1,16 97:18

99:13 126:17

130:2 175:10

definitional 17:14

definitions 14:21

18:12 22:1 23:12

24:1,3,16 42:16

43:12,20 44:6,7

49:4,15,22 50:12

51:1,2,5,17 53:4

54:1,4 56:5,14

57:5,11 58:8

63:17,17,22 64:3

64:18 67:8 72:21

73:4 74:19 75:4

77:2,12,17 81:2

81:11 82:6,11,15

82:22 97:13,15

degree 176:11

degrees 79:8 84:13

153:8

Delaney 2:22 98:5,5

137:10,10 145:12

145:12 152:14

172:6,6,11 173:13

174:14

delta 37:16,19

demands 37:9

demonstrate 74:8

140:18

demonstrating

140:11

denominator 38:1

38:17 106:21

114:12

Department 1:1,6

2:1 4:9,16,18 5:6

5:6 9:2,18 10:6,16

11:14,20 14:8

33:5,6 56:10 57:2

82:17 83:8 91:10

104:1 200:12

Department's 41:22

103:9

dependent 185:18

depending 33:7

94:14 107:19

120:12

depends 43:18,18

68:7

depiction 164:13

depth 139:21

derive 140:2

derived 137:20

describe 23:8 45:2

60:21 62:21

105:21 157:22

193:22

described 69:4

165:3

describes 48:10

82:3 124:19,21

describing 34:22

52:8 165:4

description 67:4

design 50:21 52:8

52:21 53:17 54:4

57:6,12 59:10

68:8 74:9 82:3

83:15 84:13 97:6

105:8 107:13

113:11,11,11

131:16 149:3,3,4

154:3,4 155:3

designed 20:7,22

21:9 53:12,12

55:13,17 73:16

74:2,7 78:22

79:13 81:15 83:18

84:16,17,19 88:8

106:6 108:13

153:1,5

desirability 33:19

desire 115:20

detail 47:22 75:14

81:5,11 104:3,17

108:9 109:9 111:9

114:7 118:2

120:22 127:9

129:22 130:11

165:3 166:18

167:19 175:9

184:10

detailed 9:3,4 22:9

22:12 32:5 50:12

63:16 83:12

171:16 192:20

details 9:4 81:10

100:8,21 112:11

145:22 195:19

197:6

determination 8:8

8:12 117:11 130:9

146:11,14

determine 57:8

64:11 89:8 100:18

104:14 113:17

114:19 120:8

122:5 144:12

145:4 149:17

153:20 161:9

176:7 177:9 181:3

181:21 194:1,9

196:9,20

determined 41:18

53:16 96:9 104:18

114:16 122:1,4

143:17 147:10

158:10,13 164:4

164:18,21 165:1,2

176:13,22 181:5

195:1 196:17

determining 110:14

117:8 120:5

146:22 163:15

176:19 180:16

181:6 194:20

195:7

develop 127:14

developed 49:22

56:22 112:7

145:15 164:11

development 4:17

137:19 138:14

172:16 173:1

devices 144:10

diagram 109:10

diagrams 185:11

diameter 28:15

29:13,14,19 30:4

30:6,11,12 31:5

32:15 33:20 35:4

35:9,12,16 36:17

40:16,17 45:7,8

45:10 46:4,7

83:19 84:2,10,12

84:14 89:3,8,10

90:4,7

diced 77:22

dictating 33:6

Diego 5:20
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 215

differ 70:3

difference 22:16

25:6 108:22 125:2

181:20 203:11

differences 60:9,14

different 13:11

15:14 25:22 26:5

27:3,14,16 28:9

28:10,10,18 29:1

29:4 38:16,16

40:19 41:7,19

45:18 47:1,6

48:13 68:11 77:16

94:2,12,13 99:7,8

107:18 110:1

151:11 160:14

163:9 165:17

176:12 177:3,15

177:16 182:9

185:17 188:9

191:1 206:17,20

differentiate 44:20

53:19 54:6 69:16

74:9 98:20 139:11

differentiated 96:14

154:5

differentiating

48:13 51:10 56:12

74:13

differentiation

31:22 99:9

differentiator 62:18

differing 28:16

difficult 59:15 74:8

122:15

difficulties 138:8

diffuser 25:14 55:7

55:11,21

digest 186:14

digit 116:8

digits 115:19 116:9

116:13

dimension 89:11

diminish 9:6 172:2

direct 40:22

direction 52:4 63:10

70:19

directions 184:4

directly 6:4 8:6,13

175:14

disadvantage

157:11,13

disagree 22:2

disagreeing 80:11

discharge 52:17

53:13 73:14

discharged 52:6

55:1,9

disclose 30:14,16

disclosures 14:6

discrete 98:22

discretion 27:11,18

189:8

discretionary 32:20

32:21 39:12

discuss 43:11,13

51:4 60:4 72:12

73:2,19 76:21

77:11,13 79:21

81:5 93:6,8 94:2

99:6 100:7,21

104:2,16 111:8

121:7 136:18

166:18 168:3,17

discussed 13:18

18:12 20:5,13

21:12 35:17 43:4

47:13,22 54:4

71:15 73:17 74:5

74:11,16,20 76:11

76:14 77:5,20

78:6 83:21 84:21

89:2 93:17 94:5

95:3,22 101:10,21

102:7,10 107:12

107:16 108:12

109:1,8,18 110:22

113:16 114:6,7

120:22 121:9

127:21 130:2

132:8 144:19

145:7 149:16,21

150:1 163:19,21

166:19 167:18

173:5 179:21

182:5 187:9

discusses 75:4 81:19

187:8

discussing 18:10

46:18 47:16 59:1

113:8 179:18

180:15 187:9

discussion 23:3 31:9

39:6 58:12 59:14

80:6 82:11 90:11

146:17 155:20

157:4 167:8,12

191:17 196:3

198:20 205:19

discussions 15:9

64:2 79:9 149:5

172:12 201:5

displacement 48:18

76:16,18 77:7

disregarding 79:6

dissolved 20:9 22:5

22:6,7,17 79:3

80:12

distinguish 27:2

28:12,16 33:2

distortion 134:1,7

distributed 14:7

21:2 43:15 45:9

45:14

dive 8:21 66:16

112:11

divided 194:16

docket 15:8,12

92:13,14 165:4

document 14:16

18:17 64:1 89:21

199:14

documented 126:18

DOE 2:4,5 7:5,6

14:1,12 15:16

16:1 17:11,18

18:6 23:6,21 24:2

25:17 26:17 29:5

36:9,22 37:4,9

41:2,3 42:18

48:11,16 49:5,16

49:22 51:2 53:15

53:19 54:3,7,14

54:16 62:9 68:20

71:3 76:11,20

89:2,7,8 94:3,6,13

94:20 95:22 96:9

96:14 104:14

111:19 115:20

120:16 121:5,8,12

121:18,22 122:1,9

123:6 125:17

127:20 128:22

129:17 132:9

133:19 134:4,10

134:11,13,19

135:21 140:22

143:5,14 144:18

145:9 155:20

158:2,5,10,22

159:3,5 161:1,18

164:7,9,14,21

173:21 176:6,10

176:15 180:20

181:4 185:15

187:17,20 188:16

190:21 191:2,22

192:13 194:8

195:4,20 196:8,12

196:17 198:15

DOE's 18:8 23:9

24:13 28:21 41:8

45:3,5 50:14

55:12 56:3 78:14

81:16 101:15

106:10 107:17

109:12 113:10

120:13,19 121:6

121:15 135:19

136:13 143:21

144:8 149:7 154:9

180:6

DOE-regulated

193:9

doing 64:17 68:10

90:16 140:19

168:14 188:13

189:12 199:15

201:18 203:13

dollars 200:5

door 34:17 39:12,14

double 44:12 69:19

doubt 66:17

Doug 2:3 4:11 12:7

22:10 75:12 92:2

94:4 118:6 136:9

drastically 38:4

draw 138:21

dried 77:8

drive 105:3,5

117:17 122:18

136:4,19 143:19

146:3 162:17

173:8 179:15,15

driver 8:12 20:12

21:9,10,11 23:10

23:21 52:5 85:15

85:17,18 86:2,6,7

94:7,8,9,15,20

95:2,3,8,9,13,17

96:2,10,22 97:21

100:10,19 101:3

102:1 112:4 140:8

146:12,14 176:9

drivers 47:7 94:18

95:5 100:2

drives 96:18 129:17

133:21 207:4

driving 116:9

dropping 38:3

dry 160:18,20 175:5

due 198:13

dyno 140:3

dynometers 139:19

E

E 2:22 4:1,1 171:1,1

earlier 49:13 56:8

73:22 116:17

130:22 166:20

172:12 186:16

early 173:16

easier 18:19 76:3

eat 146:19

echo 72:11

echoed 63:6

ECMs 96:18

ECS 206:10

eddy 162:10

Edison 5:19

EE 31:3

effect 190:15

efficiencies 28:16

88:7 104:1,6

107:3 147:16

152:16,16 154:3

157:4 158:6,21

159:15,20 161:8

162:6,22 163:18

efficiency 8:12 14:6

25:3,4 28:2,5,7,10

28:13,15 33:1,3

35:4,5 47:11 84:1

84:7,9 101:12,13

101:18 104:8

106:9,12,17,20

111:6,9,18,18,21

112:3,6 113:13,18

115:8,10 116:5,6

116:20 117:17

120:18 130:14

140:3,8,11,16

146:12,15,22

147:7,10,13,21

149:1,13,14

152:20 153:3,21

154:13 155:1,2,5

155:7 157:21

158:1,14,18,19

159:9 160:3,22

161:7 162:17

163:15,20 164:2,4

164:10,16 176:13

177:1,4,5 178:8

179:5,5,15 180:1

181:4,5,22 184:17

187:19 188:18

189:22 190:2

193:6,7,7

efficient 11:22

30:11 36:16,19,19
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 216

38:11 47:11 65:21

106:15 157:3

159:14

efforts 4:21

either 33:10 45:7

73:11 85:19 94:21

113:4 185:4 186:1

194:21 198:15

201:15

electric 2:17 5:20

101:8,14,16

102:20 105:11

106:11 111:20

113:11 133:21

147:9,18 149:10

158:22 163:20

202:22

electrical 25:1

130:10 143:18,22

144:7

electricity 203:3

electronic 105:5

190:1

elements 174:16,17

eleven 8:9

eligible 95:19

eliminate 201:6

202:3

email 13:11

emerging 138:8

employees 196:14

EN 172:18 179:10

enclosed 154:5,10

154:12

encourage 10:3

13:8 16:20 72:18

75:21 82:14

140:20 141:1

165:6 195:19

encouraged 13:13

encouraging 146:19

ended 191:16

endorse 145:20

endorsements 82:16

ends 89:18 91:1

energy 1:1,6 2:1 4:7

4:9 6:8 9:18 10:16

11:1,9,14,22 14:6

14:9 17:9,12,15

17:19 18:9 19:2

21:14 24:22 25:2

25:3,6 26:4 51:20

57:3 94:4 96:7,12

97:1,13,20 101:15

106:10 107:21

108:13 121:9

139:12 158:3

180:6 181:16

187:8,19,19 195:2

208:8,14

enforce 41:3

enforceable 125:3,4

enforcement 54:19

enforcing 41:5,19

engrossed 64:8

ensure 73:7 116:12

enters 52:3

entire 116:3 120:12

157:4

entities 197:1

entrained 20:8 22:3

22:3,17,18 23:4

envisioned 31:2

EPCA 13:21 14:1

17:18

equal 84:10,12

114:14 139:7

194:13 196:14

equally 109:18,21

113:2 117:11

158:16

equation 115:4,11

equipment 13:22

14:3 17:20 18:1

18:11 20:7,12

22:2 23:10 24:13

24:15,19 25:16,17

32:8 33:21 41:22

43:10 48:11 49:1

49:11,16,21 50:1

50:2,4 51:6,18

52:14,20 54:7

56:6 75:3,3 78:3

83:17 99:20,22

100:4 101:11

107:19 108:7,17

115:9 130:10

134:22 135:8

137:7 138:18

143:12,18,22

144:7 194:11

195:7 196:4,16

198:15 200:1,5,9

204:15,17

equivalent 149:15

149:22

error 118:10 129:4

184:4

errors 11:7

ESCC 65:3

especially 10:4

82:14 83:7 94:10

124:5 133:19

134:4 195:20

197:8

essentially 24:22

96:19 139:7,10,14

193:21

establish 158:5

established 13:21

estimates 42:4

197:9

etcetera 193:8,8

EU 79:16 115:12

European 88:6

172:17,21

evaluated 88:13

113:14 119:15

event 150:7

everybody 51:8

91:17 149:15

208:11

everybody's 51:11

everyone's 66:21

evidence 12:3

exact 111:15

exactly 5:8 11:17

144:14,16 145:5

188:6 202:12

206:22

example 42:20

45:17 46:17,22

50:7,18 52:18

66:6 72:3 80:19

81:14 95:5 97:4

104:8 107:1

examples 23:17

54:13 65:22 78:9

examples,- 48:20

exceed 61:4 79:5

excellent 56:11

127:16

exception 45:5

exceptionally 110:8

exceptions 25:8

27:11

excess 135:9

exclude 48:17 49:5

50:17 54:10 55:12

77:4,15 99:14

excluded 50:8 72:22

76:18 77:8,10

78:12 79:21 81:7

81:9,17 88:1

100:1,3

excludes 50:21

excluding 50:19

121:4

exclusion 55:4

72:11 88:2

exclusionary 43:11

76:20

exclusions 50:15

53:6 56:4,4

exclusive 50:4 64:3

67:8 105:4 139:20

excuse 33:16 112:5

117:13

exist 196:6

exists 174:10

expand 192:17

expanded 181:15

expect 16:21

expectations 19:10

expected 125:19

144:21

expects 9:2

expensive 124:4

experience 139:21

expert 93:20

expertise 66:20

explain 65:1 189:17

explains 107:7

explanation 67:14

express 12:9

extent 44:4 71:9

104:6 142:20,21

extrapolated 165:13

165:15

extremely 23:20

63:16 110:5 133:7

135:13 166:21

181:18

eye 80:17

eyes 53:6 58:21

F

F 2:7 171:1

faced 138:22

faces 26:16

facilitate 192:1

facilities 82:4 196:6

198:13

facility 82:2 196:10

fact 36:9 40:6 159:9

factor 67:11 135:5,6

140:2,7,17,17

150:10,12,14,15

150:18,18 151:1,7

151:17 152:6,8,17

152:19,20 153:3,6

165:2 200:6

202:19 204:7,12

207:1,2

factors 136:21

150:9 152:15

fail 155:4

fair 192:15 202:17

fairly 8:20 12:21

43:22 162:6

fall 60:8 148:7

falling 164:19

falls 64:5

familiar 12:22

90:19 93:21

108:11 111:11

fan 138:5

far 6:1 36:22 42:17

57:13 107:17

132:3 168:16

fashion 9:8 27:19

fastened 61:20

faster 131:13

fastest 170:2

favor 66:15

favorable 142:14,15

feasible 137:7

features 52:8

162:17

Federal 16:17

feedback 5:10

104:19 106:1

feeds 198:19

feel 122:11 125:15

139:14 160:11

204:7,13

feet 84:12

Fernstrom 3:5

206:16

Ferstrom 5:17,17

12:6,7 22:15 23:1

33:16 34:20 35:13

35:19 36:5 39:22

41:10 42:1,7

44:11,14 57:16

62:14,19 68:12

69:10 70:4,18

80:9,20 86:11,12

86:18 87:1,10,21

88:14 98:18

104:21,22 105:14

105:17 107:6

110:2,3 143:2

202:18 203:6,19

203:22 205:12

206:22

field 21:16 96:12

205:7

fields 138:8 206:5

figure 64:4 67:3
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 217

126:11 156:7

186:22

file 16:8

filing 207:13

fill 139:4

filling 162:11

filter 68:9

final 16:7,21 40:10

48:3 187:17,22

188:10,17 189:1

finally 10:3

find 27:6 33:8 82:12

158:12 164:10

198:16

finding 62:21

fine 75:18,18

finish 136:16

fire 81:4,18

first 17:17,21 18:14

18:22 24:18 51:4

77:14 137:12

158:6 189:19

fit 185:12

five 26:2 49:16,21

50:1 61:4 70:7,9

70:20 78:3 83:17

208:11,11,13

flag 116:17 167:11

169:16

flexibility 39:20

45:15 46:6 185:21

195:21 196:20

float 95:18

floor 90:21 170:3

flow 22:4,19 51:4

52:15 54:22 55:8

73:12 76:16,20,22

77:4,9,16 83:19

84:9 96:19 97:6

109:5,7 112:18

113:2,15,20

114:20 115:9

116:20 119:15

130:14,15 144:14

144:17,21 145:2

150:1,4 151:6

152:16 177:15

178:12 182:11,12

182:18,21 183:2

183:13,19 184:6

flows 177:12

fluctuations 123:3

123:13 128:13

fluid 2:11 6:21

51:20 55:22 78:5

121:17,19

fluids 21:15

FM 81:19

focus 9:14 53:5 93:6

93:16 137:4

focused 70:15 138:5

173:8 196:12

folks 70:7 131:4

172:4 203:6

follow 17:2 57:14

96:20 97:5 102:8

102:11,16 142:9

183:17

followed 190:12

207:7

following 8:2,11

102:18 114:14

182:13 183:5

follows 182:6

foot 19:15

football 76:17

force 124:2

fore 12:15

Forgive 22:15

form 37:22 199:2

format 121:12

formed 14:19

formula 11:11

Forrestal 1:7 4:9

forth 36:4

forward 5:9 20:2

62:21 72:9 73:19

125:12 138:22

found 66:19

foundation 53:11

55:3 56:19 59:17

61:19,19 72:2,6

73:16

four 8:1 26:2 84:20

117:9,10 191:7

fraction 164:17

frame 49:14 50:9

52:11 53:21 54:9

66:6 74:15 93:19

122:6 128:7 189:4

frames 69:22

framework 14:16

121:6

free 20:8 79:1

freezing 79:7

frequency 133:22

134:4,6 144:3,5

frequently 85:15

full 27:22 28:14

29:2,3,13 30:4,5

30:12 31:4,17,18

32:15 33:12,14,20

35:4,16 36:17

38:2,8,9 39:9

40:15,16 41:4,5

41:20 44:21 45:3

45:6,7,16,20,22

46:4,7,10 47:18

48:20 83:19 84:1

84:5,10,11 97:10

101:12,12,18

111:18 116:11

140:1 144:4 147:7

147:9 149:1 150:8

150:10 152:2,20

153:4,5 157:21

158:14,18 163:19

164:1,4 165:1

180:1 181:22

183:16,22 184:13

184:14

fully 10:19 15:17

16:6 55:18 142:13

153:6 166:17

function 53:11,12

56:19 73:16 115:9

164:2

functional 25:1

fundamental 144:2

144:5 182:10

further 59:14 65:2

83:15 96:14 100:8

116:6 146:1

155:11 159:8

171:22 201:20

furthest 100:12

future 18:7 155:21

156:12 171:12

173:6 174:1

G

G 4:1

gallons 84:11

gap 66:1 162:8,9,12

Gary 3:5 5:17 12:5

22:15 33:17 35:15

36:5 39:22 41:10

44:11 57:16 62:14

68:12 70:10,13

80:9 86:11,12

87:4 98:18 99:5

104:21,22 110:2,3

143:2 202:18

204:20 206:19

207:7,10,20

Gary's 37:16 58:11

204:5

gas 2:17 5:20,21

79:4

gases 20:8 22:3,3,5

22:6,7,20

gathered 129:17

gauges 122:20

Gaydon 3:1 6:19,19

126:16,16

geared 85:20

general 25:5 39:19

48:8,19 56:3

59:12 81:12 82:8

93:19 96:9,17

100:15 102:10

106:15 109:12

111:11 112:10

114:2 120:7 128:5

128:10 129:11,12

131:15 132:4

134:3 145:8 147:3

148:4 185:20

186:3 193:21

194:7

generally 13:21

46:21 56:14 71:8

140:6 185:16

generate 164:3

generated 158:1

162:16

generation 121:12

Generator 6:8

generators 95:5

gentlemen 146:6

getting 5:9 22:11

46:2 48:8 83:14

103:1 128:22

154:1 205:9,11

give 40:19 51:8

168:20 185:21

186:19 191:9

204:21

given 5:6 24:19 28:9

44:4 45:8,17 57:8

64:4,21 72:15

129:13 151:10

153:19 178:14

glad 5:11 7:20

gladly 11:19

Glenn 3:6

glossed 26:16

179:19

glycol 162:12

go 10:10 12:21

13:15 26:10 36:3

37:20 40:12,17

44:22 51:16 53:2

67:3,18 75:10,13

75:19,21 82:18

87:20 88:12,19

89:5 90:22 112:10

116:17 123:3,9

124:3 126:20

127:12 136:16

138:17 139:16

146:18 156:5

163:11 167:2

168:19 169:6

174:3 175:8,17

179:2 185:20

186:8 187:13

189:18,18 197:18

200:9,11 204:10

206:2,17 207:8

goal 196:19

goes 39:11 44:12

125:9,16 201:8

202:1 204:3

going 4:4,13 5:12

7:21 8:6 12:17,20

13:15 14:5 17:7

24:9 25:12 26:12

30:14 34:2 35:16

36:7,16 38:4 41:4

41:5,7 43:11,13

44:2,22 49:18

50:11 51:4,16

53:4 58:10 62:7

63:11 69:2,16

70:19 76:21 79:18

81:5 83:4,8,9

88:12 91:5,12,13

91:17 92:20,22

93:6,8,12,12,12

95:11,21 100:21

104:2 107:10,11

107:13,14 108:9

110:13,13 111:8

112:10,10 114:3

116:10 120:1

121:1 122:11

125:11,20 126:20

129:19,22 131:3

136:17 138:22

140:15,20 141:4,4

141:8,13,18,21

142:5,6,10,16,22

143:5,8,9 146:8

146:10,10,18

150:19 154:14,14

154:19 156:5,6

157:2,18 160:21

163:15 165:11,12

165:16 166:2,18
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 218

167:2 169:3,11,17

170:1 172:7 175:1

176:2 177:13

179:1,17 180:13

183:3 186:8,13,19

186:22 188:20

189:3 197:16

198:1,8 199:21

200:4 202:10,13

202:20,22 204:6

205:3,9,16 206:6

206:16 207:7

208:2,4,9,12

good 4:4,15 6:3 17:4

19:5,15 33:8

34:22 74:20 99:4

116:1 119:5,9

123:17,18 124:15

138:14 155:20

166:9 174:14

193:20 199:20

204:21 205:7,11

208:6

Goodman 2:12

government 11:18

grab 40:17 91:22

gray 48:19 80:18,21

great 23:5 24:11

60:17 61:10 63:2

72:8 75:20 76:10

80:4,19 83:11

90:5 107:9 120:3

123:5 127:19

137:3 143:8 146:9

148:17 166:16

168:18 174:1

193:5,19 195:11

197:14 202:10

204:5 206:1

207:22

greater 84:10

149:22 194:13

greatly 32:14

green 49:10 50:16

78:20 114:9 134:6

180:19 181:15

182:13

Greg 87:15

grid 203:18

grids 203:1

ground 15:21 61:20

64:14 90:16,21

170:3

group 5:4 10:18

11:3 12:11 13:20

14:20 15:4,5,8

17:10,21 18:8

19:3,22 20:15

21:12 23:7,15

26:18,21 31:20

47:9 49:8,20 54:4

54:17 56:5 73:6

74:6,11 76:15

78:6,16 79:10,11

80:3 81:19,20

82:9 83:22 84:21

85:5 87:15 94:5

95:4 101:11 102:7

107:16 108:12

109:2,19 110:9

114:6 120:20

127:14 130:3

144:19 145:6,9

149:5 154:17,22

163:1,22 166:22

167:20 168:16

171:6 182:5,8

198:6 199:4

group's 10:21 15:21

grouping 46:18

Grundfos 87:2

guarantee 63:21

guess 16:18 32:8

41:17 42:15 81:1

87:4 125:10

156:21 172:11

174:14 175:8

204:20

guidance 78:15

145:16 186:19

guidelines 190:13

guy 198:21

guys 27:13 30:2

39:13 63:21 64:7

80:13 88:15 93:14

118:10,10 160:4

167:13 188:7

198:2 201:16,17

202:4,9 204:6

H

half 45:21 183:17

183:22

hall 91:1

hand 9:21 91:6,15

92:19

handed 91:19

handle 22:5,21

hands 157:14

Handzel 2:14 6:13

6:13 32:7,7,17

58:10,11 59:5,8

59:20 60:3,12,15

63:4,4 65:1,9,13

65:20 66:9,13,22

67:13 68:1,7

70:12,12 75:9,18

76:5 80:1,1 82:20

82:20 92:2 98:2,2

118:3,6,6,9,13

119:2,6 127:13

131:6,6 154:21

156:17,20 186:12

186:13,18 187:2

192:5,6,7 195:9,9

197:11,12,12

199:8 200:19

202:5,5,12

happen 39:15 47:15

62:9,10 71:12

93:2

happened 15:5

happens 38:15 88:3

happy 141:22

168:15

hard 5:3 9:18 12:10

13:19 64:21

207:14

hard-working

110:9

harmonic 134:1,7

135:7 144:2

harmonics 135:12

Harrison 3:6

he'll 92:9,11

head 46:2 66:9

76:22 83:19 84:11

182:8,11,14,21

183:2,13 184:2,5

184:9 188:20

heads 59:17 68:22

hear 7:20 10:1

39:13,20 60:13

heard 13:19 14:18

33:9 39:6,17

44:14 107:17

hearing 10:18,19

19:3 61:16 201:7

heaven 171:11

held 141:13

help 45:1 56:21

66:1 115:13

126:11 128:12

129:3 197:9 199:1

helpful 22:14 59:7

64:7 71:9 82:18

83:7 86:10 128:15

140:22 160:6

174:20 175:13

195:7

helping 64:11 201:9

helps 67:14

hermetic 162:7

Hey 186:5

HI 6:12,14,16,18

49:20 54:12,14,15

54:16 55:5 56:1

56:22 57:17 61:6

61:8 63:17 64:6

72:9 73:21 82:22

88:2 89:20 114:19

121:5,16 122:3,3

127:21 129:11

131:4,20 144:11

144:22 165:19

201:16

HI's 72:2

HI-referenced

55:15

high 8:20 58:3

86:14 88:11 93:13

93:15,22 121:1,15

121:20 146:20

167:4 179:21

higher 87:7 88:4,9

104:8 126:21

141:9 153:4 160:3

162:11 194:13,21

highest 130:7

highlight 13:2 15:3

15:22 16:13

highlighted 15:14

94:18 120:5

history 8:7 13:16

15:5 156:9

hit 167:4

hold 38:8 132:21

home 13:10

honor 5:7

hope 11:9

hopefully 93:3,14

143:11 166:21

175:13

hoping 53:7 93:22

horizontally 61:1

horse 150:19 151:1

horsepower 43:6,7

59:22 60:16 61:5

70:8,9,20 72:4,5

84:9 119:13,17

135:9 149:18,21

150:20 151:3,10

151:11,13,17,18

152:2,4,7 153:4

153:21 154:13

158:21 159:5,11

159:11,13

hour 131:13 171:7

hours 93:3

housing 73:13

Hu 2:8

Huber 2:7 6:15,15

10:14,14 19:11,12

29:9,10,16,18,21

30:4,7,9,17,20

31:1,9,13 35:1,2

35:14,21 36:2

37:15 62:8,17

69:3 124:1,16,19

125:20 126:4,8,12

168:1,1,6,8,15

189:20,20 191:12

199:10 201:8,11

204:8,9,11,17

205:1,14

huge 126:4 197:20

199:21

hundred 43:6 132:6

hundredth 115:21

hurdles 173:15,17

HVAC 68:3 138:5

hydraulic 3:1 6:19

10:14,15 11:19

25:2 63:6 100:12

103:19 108:8,17

114:17,19 120:17

126:16 176:10,18

181:17 200:9

Hydraulics 177:8

hypothetical 45:19

182:20

Hz 116:21 172:21

I

ID 170:5

idea 147:3 174:1

200:2,3

identical 25:1 66:2

IEC 106:9 113:11

149:3 154:4

172:22 173:8

IEEE 137:21

ignorance 22:16

illustration 47:14

image 48:21

imaginary 89:11

imbalance 135:6,7

140:7

imbalances 136:22

immediate 5:14
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 219

Immediately 8:2

immersible 50:22

55:12

impact 124:5

126:22 127:1

133:15 136:20

137:4 174:7

196:21,22,22

200:13 202:8

imparted 51:20

impedance 134:1,9

impeller 28:2,22

29:2,3,4,6,14,14

31:10,17,18 32:15

33:20 35:9 36:17

38:16,18 39:1,9

41:4,5 44:21 45:4

45:6,7,13,17 46:4

46:7,10 47:18

51:21 52:4 53:10

55:2,10,11,20

68:15 84:1,6,10

84:12 85:16,19

86:2,4,5

impeller's 69:5

impellers 27:13,14

47:20

implementation

16:10 31:20

implemented 33:11

implementing 64:19

implication 122:19

implications 207:5

implicitly 77:10

imply 22:4

importance 42:3

important 15:22

128:19 134:16

156:4 161:3,17

174:18 189:1

improve 128:18

133:18

improved 57:19

104:10 161:11

in-line 25:14 49:15

50:9 52:18,20,22

53:22 54:21 55:6

56:17 57:9 59:12

60:6,9,10 72:3

in-lines 72:4

inadvertently 87:12

incentive 34:7 192:1

inch 89:5

inches 84:15 163:3

include 11:10 20:8

20:22 54:2 60:10

63:14 67:9 83:2

99:14 107:4

110:20 121:4

135:5 181:15

included 20:10

76:12 84:17 85:3

91:16 92:9 99:15

109:10 193:1

includes 14:1 20:10

23:20 74:3 148:5

including 14:3

74:12 150:17

incoming 136:21

140:10,16

inconsistency 134:9

inconsistent 54:15

incorporate 120:17

incorporated 175:4

incorporates 182:8

increase 156:5

incremental 96:19

97:2,10

Independence 1:8

index 107:21 108:13

indicate 20:22

180:19

indicated 18:2

20:17 48:18

indicates 48:19

113:3

indicating 21:4

individual 26:18,21

27:8 47:4

individuals 5:4 7:17

12:14 13:20 92:5

92:19 127:11

169:19

induces 162:10

induction 84:22

101:4 105:1,7,10

105:18,20 106:2

106:14 107:1

138:10

industrial 1:2 5:1

10:20 53:16 70:8

industry 11:18

47:15 51:22 53:19

64:5,16 133:20

137:18 138:21

145:16 158:12

159:6 160:2

197:16 199:6

industry's 53:6

157:16

influenced 186:16

information 14:15

30:15,16 34:2,5,8

34:10,13,17 36:11

41:12 42:4 51:9

125:1 161:7

172:19 175:7,12

192:18,22 199:17

207:12

inherent 106:7

initiated 14:14

initiation 156:10

inlet 52:16

input 100:11 103:18

108:4,6,14,16

112:15,16,22

113:1,14 117:12

117:14,17,20

119:14 120:8

130:10 133:13

134:2 136:4,10

143:19 144:10,12

144:14,15,16

145:4 150:1 176:8

176:10,17,19

181:2,8 193:7

203:14,15 204:2

206:17,20

installed 33:22

instance 47:5

132:22 151:14

Institute 3:1 6:20

10:14,15 11:19

63:6 120:17

126:17 177:9

instructions 120:13

insulated 69:19,22

integral 202:21

integrate 128:6

integrated 74:3

integration 127:22

intend 30:1 58:13

intended 50:5 56:5

76:12 78:16 80:13

85:5

intending 55:12

58:6

intent 5:7 62:20

74:8 85:4 87:19

133:5

intention 8:15 86:19

88:2 126:7 127:2

intentions 56:11

interest 110:12

138:4 157:16,16

interested 11:18

15:9 23:11 115:13

191:20 192:7

203:17 204:1,2

207:2

interim 188:11

189:3 191:3

intermediate 89:13

89:17,20

interpolate 145:1

184:6,6

interpolated 145:4

interpolating 184:1

interpolation 183:2

interpolation/extr...

174:19

interpret 61:19

interpretation 19:9

interrelated 203:21

intersects 89:16

interval 11:12 122:1

122:2,10 126:1

128:2

interviewed 198:6

introduce 77:18

introducing 63:9

introductions 5:13

7:18

invest 135:16

investigated 40:20

investigation 40:15

58:15

investment 141:9

Investor-Owned

5:18 12:8 33:17

involved 15:2

172:15 201:17

IOU's 3:5

IOUs 41:11 57:17

iron 162:20

issue 13:1 14:2

16:21 18:16,18

32:13 63:5 65:2

70:22 74:18 75:21

76:2 115:18

118:21 125:5

128:3 131:8

132:17,19 137:12

157:8 168:4,17

169:8 175:21

176:2 186:15

191:17 201:4,19

202:16

issued 118:10

issues 8:6 12:14

13:5 14:16 15:14

75:13 93:16

146:21 155:21

157:20 167:4

168:2 171:22

188:17 201:21

issuing 187:17

item 56:18 58:2

items 11:2 185:16

206:14 207:16,21

iterations 26:5

J

J 2:19

Jason 3:3 7:12

Jiangang 2:8

Joanna 2:9 7:1

67:16 191:14

job 34:22 56:11

193:20

John 2:4 7:5

joined 44:19

judge 128:12

jump 15:19 16:13

26:8 168:22

juncture 174:2

June 10:21 14:13

16:21

justification 21:13

105:21

K

keep 8:20 9:14,20

17:16 38:10 62:7

77:14 83:9 93:12

93:22 114:8 141:4

142:10,22 143:9

154:14,19 185:8

195:13 208:4

keeping 146:10

kicked 199:19

kicks 187:16

kilograms 79:2,3

80:11

kilowatt 61:4

kind 13:17 22:11

26:16 32:21 37:15

64:9 98:10 135:16

135:18 156:17

157:5 186:20

189:22 198:19

200:8 201:20

Kingsbury-type

162:15

knew 93:1

know 5:2 27:12

29:22 31:1 32:10

32:11,12 33:9

36:8,18 37:10,16

38:18 40:12 44:4
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 220

48:1 54:19 56:6

58:11,14,17,18

59:9 60:4 63:5,11

65:3,5,10 66:13

66:17 67:4 68:3,5

70:14 71:6,14

82:21 83:2 86:15

87:5 92:6,7,17

98:7,7 119:3

123:7,14 124:12

125:10,13 132:13

141:7 143:5

152:12 155:1,9,13

156:13 159:6

162:19 167:13,18

168:21 169:14

173:3,4 174:9

175:18 183:12

184:4 186:18,20

189:16,20 190:7

191:7 192:8,19

193:15 194:4

197:14,18,18,20

197:22 198:12,12

198:14,15,20

199:1,5 200:8

201:15 202:1,21

206:22 207:5

knowledgeable

66:10

knows 35:11

L

L.P 2:12

lab 7:14 125:14

128:22 135:3

138:19 140:10

142:16 197:22

198:2,8

label 37:5

labeling 14:2

labels 35:7

Laboratory 2:6,16

3:4

labs 7:9 134:21

139:3 200:22

lack 36:8

Lai 3:3 7:12,12

laid 111:12 184:10

language 35:15

50:21 62:2 64:6

66:14,17,18 88:15

125:21 126:13

127:14

large 18:7 69:14,17

155:3 162:8 197:4

200:20

largely 201:16

larger 44:5 45:12

135:15

largest 45:13 202:8

late 173:16

lately 198:8

Laughter 19:6

204:22 205:15

laundry 197:19

Laura 44:19

Lawrence 3:4 7:8

laws 96:13 102:11

165:13 182:7,10

lawyers 63:22

leave 34:17 74:6

87:12 170:6

led 12:11

leeway 189:14

left 5:14 103:22

171:17

left-hand 99:21

109:9 154:11

legislation 88:7

length 20:13 21:12

74:20 94:5 101:11

107:16 163:21

let's 5:13 7:7 10:9

10:10,11 32:4

42:22 43:6 44:2

51:11 98:9 136:15

138:3,8 139:9,11

151:2 169:4 171:9

201:14 208:4

letters 118:14

level 8:20,21 58:3

93:13,15,22 121:2

122:18 126:21

127:8 141:19,21

141:22 142:6,8,12

143:5 144:4

146:20 167:4

179:21

levels 14:22 104:13

104:15 135:4

160:11,21

life 18:19

likes 34:8

liking 202:3

limit 9:16 60:20

67:9 83:16 98:15

121:18 146:20,21

194:16

limitation 59:22

limitations 83:20

limited 11:10 18:11

limiting 67:11 78:4

89:2 116:5

limits 77:1

line 89:11 115:7

136:22 140:4

157:13

linear 144:19 183:1

linearly 144:22

liner 162:9

liquid 52:3,6,16,17

55:1,9,14,21

151:13 152:2

162:16

liquid- 55:19

liquids 20:7 21:1

list 91:20 92:12

192:18 193:16

197:19,20

listed 83:22 84:20

154:6 158:14

193:5 196:15

listening 77:15 92:3

186:21

literally 171:17

literature 45:11

158:12 161:19

little 8:16 27:18

37:18 45:1 46:15

59:13 63:20 64:10

65:1 72:19 79:14

85:7 93:1,5,13,15

94:22 99:6 107:12

110:14 134:9

145:17 146:16

157:6,22 186:8

187:9 191:17

196:3 203:11

live 10:2

load 37:2,4,5,11

41:21 95:14 97:11

99:3 101:12,18

107:21 108:5,8,13

108:17 109:1,2,3

109:4,4,6,17,19

111:7,8,10,16,18

114:14,17 117:10

117:21 120:9

144:12 147:7,9

149:1 153:4

157:21 158:14,18

163:19 164:1,4,5

164:11,22 165:1

178:13,14 180:1

181:9

loading 97:8 111:17

164:2,3,6

loads 145:3

location 178:17

184:15

long 25:12 26:22

119:4 156:9

162:18,19 190:9

190:11 191:1

201:8

longer 122:9 127:7

look 5:9 32:2 38:5

57:8 58:3 62:21

68:16 70:21 71:15

72:9 73:19 82:15

93:5 98:7 116:11

142:14 155:18

166:20 167:5,6,11

168:21 169:10

170:7 173:9 174:3

182:16 197:2

200:11

looked 124:14

159:22 163:9

looking 78:2 98:10

116:15 120:7

135:19 137:15

looks 93:21 111:10

117:7 168:22

181:11

loophole 87:12

loosen 139:13

loosening 136:20

138:7 139:6,8

lose 22:22

loss 111:7,10,16

112:4,8 164:17

165:2

losses 111:7 112:8

113:4,4,6 115:5

117:18,21,22

146:22 162:10,11

162:20,20 163:16

164:5,15,21 165:1

175:4,5,11 179:8

179:15

lost 72:1

lot 7:21 8:17 9:1

14:18 15:6 17:6

18:19 26:15 36:3

37:10 38:6 43:10

64:2 71:16 77:22

80:12,18 83:9

90:15 92:18 93:2

98:11 103:2 110:4

134:3 143:1 148:6

152:22 160:17

162:20,20 169:22

171:16 172:4

188:7 195:19

198:19

lots 68:11

Louis 6:7 206:2

207:6,8,9

love 172:20

low 88:11 153:7

162:6

lower 97:8 103:22

140:8,11,15

141:18 142:6,8,11

153:2 162:18,22

lowest 130:8

Lucas 172:14

lunch 8:15 146:19

167:6,11 168:20

169:2,18,20 170:8

171:5,14,15

198:20

luncheon 170:9

M

machines 22:4

made-up 26:17

main 108:22 111:22

181:20

maintain 134:16

maintained 132:10

132:13

major 171:21

173:15

making 46:2,5

85:22 140:18

190:14 193:19

MALE 37:6 148:9

204:15

mandatorily 36:8

mandatory 36:14

manner 194:10

202:2

manual 122:15

manufacture 12:2

manufactured

24:21 160:16,18

manufacturer

20:11 24:21 27:11

32:21 34:2,12,14

43:15 57:8 89:7,7

104:4 124:6

128:20 140:1,9

146:3 157:9

160:10 161:7,18

194:1 199:22

manufacturer's

45:10
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 221

manufacturers 14:4

26:18 31:21 33:6

34:18 39:19 41:13

46:22 47:3 82:14

124:3 126:5 136:8

136:19 137:2,8

138:4,20 139:1,2

139:19 140:12

141:3 142:2,13

155:21 160:1

162:1 173:8 175:1

191:18,20 194:8

195:20 196:13,16

196:18,19 197:3,5

197:17 198:1

199:12 200:14,21

manufacturing 2:12

194:19 195:6

March 16:16

Mark 2:10,14,19

6:10,13 32:6,7

58:9,11 63:3,4

67:17 70:11,12

75:6,6 80:1 82:18

82:20 83:13 92:1

98:2 118:6 127:12

131:6 154:20

156:19,22 186:11

192:6 195:9

197:11,12 202:5

market 37:9 38:8

53:19 189:21

190:5

marketplace 27:3

29:13 33:2 35:3

37:14 38:1,7

marry 188:4

Mary 2:17

Masters 164:8

match 19:1 99:2

material 93:2,10

179:13,13

materials 15:7

mathematics

115:19

matter 8:6 59:2

126:4 141:14

matters 32:1 33:9

Mauer 2:9 7:1,1

67:17 68:6 191:15

maximum 45:8,9,20

79:1,2 89:10

128:8 130:13,14

164:15

mean 32:8 33:11

37:15 39:5 66:22

67:7 69:14 70:13

83:3 87:6 88:19

98:21 126:9 127:6

128:9 142:19

156:10 178:9

186:14 192:5

194:14,15,16

200:10 201:14

205:8

meaning 61:19

means 20:6 22:18

24:18 45:7 51:19

51:21 52:2,15

53:8 54:21 55:7

73:11 74:1 78:21

79:12 87:22 89:10

90:18 124:22

150:16 155:2

165:14,15 167:20

170:3

meant 96:17

measure 100:11

103:18 120:11,14

176:17 204:12

measured 89:6

112:16 131:1

133:16 136:10

144:5,15 149:22

165:18 181:8

184:2,5

measurement

112:19 130:10

134:18 143:12,18

143:21,22 144:7

176:22 180:19,21

181:2 204:3

measurements 42:8

114:18 122:7,22

124:14 128:9

205:5

measuring 133:13

134:1 136:4,5,5

143:18 144:1,10

181:16 204:1,7

207:1

mechanical 20:9,11

22:1 23:10 162:14

medium-sized

200:13

meet 44:10,16 67:10

78:14 81:13,16

87:22 97:18 155:5

meeting 1:1,3 2:1

4:6,8 9:13 10:2

13:2 16:19 190:10

208:16

meetings 9:19 13:1

15:6

meets 43:9,12 44:5

Meg 2:15 7:3

members 10:15

11:17 15:3 20:1

memo 165:4

mention 109:18

145:13 172:14

179:4

mentioned 17:18

18:20 22:10 75:13

83:13 94:4 99:17

101:2 110:15

112:14 133:10

136:9 138:13

163:8 172:18

173:4

mentioning 128:19

Menzer 2:10 6:10

6:10

met 44:6,7

metal 162:9

meter 79:2,4 80:11

method 37:1,4

62:17 99:19 100:5

100:14 101:5,17

102:13,18 120:12

121:8 127:21

136:2 147:12,16

147:19 153:22

157:15 158:9

160:20,22 161:2,4

161:9,13 163:16

163:17 165:5

173:10 174:4,6,13

174:19,20,22

176:11,16,17

183:7,9 184:22

185:5,6,10,10

190:12 194:19

201:16

methods 8:14

100:15 101:1

120:18 122:16

136:1 145:7

146:16 166:19

176:8 184:11,21

185:14,17

metric 95:20 97:18

106:5,6 107:13

109:12,22 110:17

147:4 160:21

188:11,18 191:2

193:9

metrics 8:7 28:21

107:18 109:11

156:1 181:7 193:5

193:11,16

MG-1 155:7,8

156:14

mic 7:18 36:1 80:14

87:9 90:12 92:8

127:6 146:13

155:16 166:15

169:1,5,21 171:8

171:13 181:12

186:6,10 187:3

203:8 208:5

microphone 5:22

6:1 75:7 155:17

microphones 5:15

6:4

mid-2013 14:19

mid-morning 8:9

middle 64:14

126:11

MIL-P- 81:14

MIL-SPEC 81:3,14

81:17

military 81:16

mind 17:16 50:14

70:4 77:14 98:16

167:1

mine 62:11

minimally 108:6,16

111:6,20 113:7,9

114:13,15,22

115:2,8 119:13

157:3 159:14

minimum 40:17,18

79:7 88:7 106:12

106:16,20 107:2

154:9,12 155:7

157:3 158:13,15

158:20 159:9,10

159:12 160:2

164:15

minimums 156:6

minor 15:15 120:21

121:4 127:20

minus 79:7 84:13

85:10 131:19

144:4

minute 84:11 90:18

118:4

minutes 169:20

170:1 171:5

208:11,11,14

missed 165:7 175:6

misunderstanding

61:13 141:20

misunderstood

141:6

mixed/ 77:15

mixture 162:13

model 24:12,18 25:6

25:8,9,19 26:1,6

26:16,20 27:7,8

28:9,18 29:7 31:4

31:4 35:9 38:17

43:19 45:5,9,11

45:14,21,21 46:7

46:18 47:12,20

64:4,13,21 84:5,5

84:8 130:2 181:1

187:10 194:6

models 26:18,22

27:6,16 29:1 45:4

46:1 47:4,17,21

64:11 197:3

modification 23:16

144:11

modifications 20:17

20:21 24:16

120:21 121:4,21

127:20 145:10

modified 165:19

moment 51:8

monitor 122:20

monitoring 123:1

morning 4:4,12,13

4:15 7:20 17:4

91:6,18 208:15

motor 2:21 6:6,7

40:18 47:2,4 53:9

55:18 61:3 68:14

68:15 69:21 84:18

84:20 86:15 95:7

95:8 97:3 98:9

99:3,10,14,22

100:1,3 101:4,7,8

101:8,9 102:1,4

102:15 103:9,13

103:16,18,21

104:1,6,7 105:2,3

105:4,6,7,7,9,10

105:11,12 106:8

106:13,17,22

107:5 108:2 111:3

111:6,7,9,15,17

111:21 112:1,3,4

112:6,9,17,20

113:3,5,6,7,9,10

113:18,18 114:10

115:5 117:12,15

117:21,21,21

119:12,17,17
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 222

129:14 131:16,22

132:1,1,5,22

133:14 134:2

136:4,10,19

137:14 138:9,20

139:18,22 140:9

140:12 141:2

142:2,13 146:3,22

147:7,10,13,15,21

149:1,2,13,13,15

149:18,19,19,21

150:4,9,19,22

151:1 153:20,21

153:21 154:2,12

154:13 155:20

156:5 157:21

158:1,6 159:15,15

160:1,2 161:12

162:17 163:1,14

163:16,17,18,19

163:20 164:2,5,6

164:8,8 173:7,9

176:18 177:18,21

178:5,14 179:5,8

179:9,22 180:1,5

180:18,22 181:8

181:10,14 183:8

183:16,20 185:4,5

185:18 200:9

202:21 207:3

motors 36:22 37:10

46:21 47:1 61:3

84:22 85:2,4

101:14,16,19

102:20 103:15

106:10,11,14,15

106:18 107:2,2

111:20 113:11,12

113:20 119:16,16

129:16,17 132:6

133:1,11,13,21

138:10 139:20

143:4 147:5,6,9

147:12,13,18

148:22,22 149:4,6

149:6,10,11,18

150:8,11 151:6

153:1,1,7 154:4,5

154:14 155:3

158:2,7,8,11,16

158:22 159:10,16

159:20 160:10,13

160:15 161:6,10

161:15 162:2,6,7

162:21 164:10

174:6 181:19

188:9 200:10

mounted 49:14 50:9

52:11 53:21 54:9

61:1 62:11,16

66:6 68:14 72:5

74:15

mounting 62:17

move 20:7 24:9

42:12 48:4 74:21

75:1 107:10

110:13 120:2

125:12 130:18

131:5 139:15

146:6,8 163:15

174:4 205:13,17

moves 55:22

moving 21:1 75:2

76:9,10 83:10

90:10 120:4

131:13 143:9

148:20 156:11

193:18 195:14

multi-pole 98:9

multi-speed 97:3

98:9 99:10 102:14

183:8

multi-speeds 98:21

multi-stage 25:13

55:6,8,16 86:16

86:22 89:22 130:1

130:4,6

multiple 29:6

multiplied 151:7

mute 9:20

muted 157:6

mutually 50:4 67:8

N

N 4:1 106:9 113:11

149:4 154:4 171:1

171:1,1

NAICS 196:15

name 4:16 5:15

7:16 9:10

name's 4:11

narrow 18:11 43:22

National 2:6,16 3:4

7:9,14

Natural 7:3

nature 69:18

Navigant 3:2,3 7:11

7:12

nearest 88:10,12

nearly 63:21 160:12

necessarily 64:8

71:14 80:17 97:5

156:14 198:14

203:16 204:17

206:8 207:17

necessary 6:5 8:22

79:6 106:2,3

114:21 121:21

122:10 123:19

181:7 196:5

197:10

NEEA 207:9

need 44:10 56:17

59:13 60:12,13

68:15 71:14 74:16

77:17 81:13 82:1

90:19 93:17 97:9

101:16,22 102:17

102:21 104:9

107:4 113:17

118:14,17 122:6

126:18 128:9

136:9,18,18

139:15 144:13

146:18 161:14

168:3,8,16 169:17

171:6 173:3 174:2

174:5 175:1

186:11 188:3

189:12 192:10

194:15 195:1

198:5 199:16

205:3 207:17,18

208:3,10,11

needed 11:8 36:14

64:9 99:13 112:20

119:3 150:2 165:9

175:19 188:2

needs 39:9,10 59:3

70:15 127:7 139:4

175:17

negative 16:8

negatively 16:7

negotiate 14:20

negotiated 15:17

19:22 20:14

201:17

negotiations 5:8

93:20

negotiators 19:10

NEMA 2:20 6:7

106:9,9,20 113:10

137:11,14 149:3

150:8,18 151:1,17

152:2 154:3 155:7

155:8 157:4

158:19 160:10

164:7 198:21

NEMA's 145:14

net 140:8

never 25:12 29:14

35:16 39:13,15

58:12 199:4

new 4:20 63:10,13

148:4 178:16

196:4 198:1 208:8

NGOs 31:3

Nice 4:12

Nidec 2:21 6:6

160:9

nitty-gritty 167:19

nods 46:2

nomenclature 49:20

54:12,14,17 55:5

55:15 56:1 63:9

63:10,17 64:16

73:21 84:17

148:15,19 158:19

nomenclatures 63:7

63:8

nominal 86:21

101:12,18 111:18

112:2 129:9 132:2

132:11,15,20,21

147:7,9 149:1,16

152:16 155:1,5

156:9 157:10

163:19 165:11

nominally 85:6

non- 183:9

non-absorbent 79:1

non-compliant 27:6

non-continuous

95:10,16,19,22

96:15,21 97:19

98:6,12,17,19

101:20 102:14

108:1 133:12

180:8 183:8

non-covered 102:20

105:11 147:17

149:10

non-electric 95:5

100:2 101:3

non-induction 85:2

85:4 132:6

non-issue 30:22

31:2

non-linearity 145:2

non-regulated

37:17

NOPR 11:8,9 15:12

16:3,16 18:16,16

20:5 50:13 53:4

54:14 75:17 76:12

81:10,11 118:9

120:22 130:9

165:3,8 175:8,8

181:1 184:10

194:8 195:19

197:7,15 206:4

normal 8:16 136:22

140:10

normalize 166:5

normalized 116:21

165:20 166:3,8

172:22

normalizing 132:18

Northwest 2:6,16

7:14 203:7

note 18:18 20:16,20

56:18 92:22 93:18

114:7 115:12

116:4 135:20

161:17 166:12

189:1

noted 21:7 23:11

27:12 54:12,14

56:7 63:15 108:18

178:19

noteworthy 198:10

notice 4:5 18:15

184:22

noticed 180:21

notified 118:10

noting 9:2 83:8

195:13

NRDC 2:15

nuances 188:1,19

nuclear 81:3 82:1,1

82:4

number 18:18

25:18,20 26:4,7

27:16 28:22 35:9

76:2 84:2,6

116:13 129:1

130:1,5 158:17

159:4 172:8

185:16 193:5,22

194:4 196:21,22

197:3 198:7 202:7

numbered 18:15

numbers 18:16

20:20 169:19

178:3 185:6

numerator 38:3

106:21 117:9

numerous 85:17

O
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 223

O 4:1 171:1,1,1

o'clock 8:10,15

obligated 41:13

observed 57:18

158:13,17,20

obviously 13:6,12

14:18 16:9 27:15

39:7 41:15 48:21

58:15 59:11 60:5

66:20 68:9 98:14

98:15 110:21

137:11 138:5,18

139:3 153:11

172:21 173:7

174:21 175:1,6

186:14 190:8

192:10 197:13

198:6

occur 25:19 141:3

143:22 144:21

occurs 129:3

October 173:16

offer 26:19 130:6

offline 141:3

oftentimes 33:22

oh 92:4,9 114:3

129:20 175:18

199:10

OH-0 66:7

OH-1 65:10 66:7

OH-2 65:11

OH-7 65:12 66:2

okay 7:19 10:11

12:13,17 17:3

19:13,13,14,14

20:3,4 22:6,8 23:1

23:5 24:7,8 28:15

29:7 32:2,5 40:3

40:10 42:1,6

46:13,15 48:6,7

51:14,14,14,15

53:2 56:20 58:7

59:4,5,12 61:1,21

61:22 62:7 63:1

63:11 65:11,20

67:13,15 68:6

69:10 70:18,21

72:7,17,18 75:2

76:8 77:20 80:8

80:20 81:1 82:8

85:21 88:14,22

89:1 90:6,10,14

91:21 92:19,22

94:1 98:3 99:17

105:20 107:8,9

109:8 110:12

114:10,12 117:2,5

117:6 119:2,6,6,7

119:10,22 120:3

123:17 126:14

127:10,16,19

128:14,16,17

131:7,13,14 133:8

133:8,9 137:9

140:19 142:19,21

143:7,8 146:5,9

148:1,17 150:13

150:21 151:22

152:11,13 153:14

153:15,17,18

154:18 157:7,17

157:20 163:5,12

163:13 166:1,6,11

166:12,16,17,18

168:5 169:17

171:9,9 172:11

173:20 175:16

176:6 178:19,22

179:3,17 181:13

184:19 186:11

187:1,2,4,7

191:12 193:2,18

195:15,16 199:7

200:16,22 201:13

202:17 203:5,9

205:16 206:13,16

208:2,11,13

once 27:22 169:20

188:16 189:11

One's 172:17

ones 58:21 59:12

67:20 86:14

129:21 167:3

online 44:19 92:3,5

92:7

oops 89:4

open 15:6 30:1

31:12 34:17 154:5

154:10,12

opening 8:4,5 10:9

10:10,11,12 12:6

29:22 167:16

operate 34:7 84:16

84:19 86:14 88:3

97:11 183:21

operated 55:17

operating 42:10

86:16 88:9 130:16

opinion 169:13

opinions 98:13

opportunities 40:6

opportunity 8:3

99:2

oppose 10:22

opposed 177:4

opposite 52:5

option 31:11 47:19

100:7 136:7

191:18,21

options 33:15 100:6

186:1

orange 50:19 95:1

order 56:21 122:5

134:15,17 178:2

189:11 194:1

207:19

organization 137:14

organizational 5:16

original 72:1 118:9

originally 31:2 38:6

199:17

ought 160:11,22

outermost 90:4

outlines 14:16

output 100:12

103:19 114:20

176:10,18 203:16

204:1

outset 8:5 10:12,19

12:14

outside 127:13

167:17

overall 18:5 177:4

181:5,21 193:7

overhung 65:7

oversee 4:17

oversized 113:21

P

P 4:1

p.m 171:2 208:15

Pacific 2:6,16,17

7:13

packet 7:22 12:18

page 8:1 11:11,12

11:13 16:12 39:8

51:11 62:19 88:21

165:8 169:7

179:16

pair 46:22 158:7

paired 47:6 96:9

97:14 101:7 102:4

103:16 104:7

113:5 131:15

132:2,5 149:7

159:16

pairing 47:3,8

paper 207:15

paper's 207:13

parallel 17:11 52:4

138:21

parameters 43:11

76:20 77:10 83:14

89:2

pardon 136:15

part 13:20 17:6

24:18 54:8 55:11

55:12,19 67:12

71:10,16 73:5,8

92:13 97:8,10,10

104:2 111:4,7,10

111:16,17 120:19

125:3 139:8

144:22 145:3

152:19 155:8,8

164:5,10 166:4

167:19 175:21

180:1 202:4

part-load 112:8

113:4,6

PARTICIPANT

37:6 148:9 204:15

participants 9:17

participate 5:10

10:1,17

participated 93:20

participation 12:3

particular 18:19

71:19 84:21 88:3

93:16 143:14

169:13 196:12

197:2,16

particularly 82:16

particulars 199:14

parties 11:19 16:20

23:11 115:14

140:13

parties' 202:2

parts 50:16 197:15

party 16:6 128:21

139:3 198:12,16

pass 91:9,22 194:21

194:21

passing 22:20 89:11

path 69:20

pathway 189:2

Patterson 2:7 6:15

Paul 2:13 6:17

21:19 27:20,21

37:20,21 40:12

46:11 56:15,16

60:18 68:19 69:10

69:13 80:15 85:12

85:13 87:20 88:5

90:1 115:15

116:17 119:19

122:12,13 128:16

132:16 135:1,2

136:16 139:16

142:9,9 150:6

152:21 156:16,22

156:22 159:21

162:3,4 175:18

177:7 178:20

180:16 181:11

184:12

pause 167:10

205:20

peek 171:15

PEI 11:15,16 28:21

28:22 29:2,13

30:20 31:5 39:10

40:22 44:20,21

95:14 110:14

161:9 174:7,12

180:4 181:6,10

188:11 189:3,7,13

190:10 191:19

PEI/CL 11:15 35:8

108:3 109:11

112:13 117:8

120:8 185:5

194:12

PEI/PER 30:19

PEI/VL 11:16 95:14

95:20 97:17

109:11,21 185:5

penalized 155:9

people 64:7,20,22

162:5 185:21

199:11 200:9

people's 157:15

PER-25 11:2

PER/CL 108:19

114:14 119:11

147:5 148:20

149:11 164:1

PER/VL 147:5

percent 37:2,3,5,11

87:18 109:5,7

112:17 113:2,14

113:20 115:3,4

117:20 119:15

130:15,18 131:19

132:11,13,20,21

134:12 144:4,14

144:16,17,20

145:1,5 150:1,4

151:6 155:4

162:12 164:5
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 224

182:12,21 194:16

201:15

perfect 137:16

perfectly 190:14

perform 178:6

205:7

performance 8:8

25:7 37:3 47:1,7

88:10 99:9 102:19

104:10 106:6,7,8

111:2,4,17 112:5

112:19,22 114:10

114:10 117:15,16

118:1 120:5,8,14

161:12 180:1,17

185:1

performed 11:4,17

40:15

performs 196:8

period 39:11 123:16

127:6 138:15

189:4,11 190:19

191:3,6

perpendicular 52:7

55:2,9 89:14,15

PERs 174:12

person 92:16

person's 92:7

perspective 136:13

136:13 173:22

174:8 177:2

Peter 3:1 6:19

126:15,16

Petrillo-Groh 44:19

PG&E 5:19

phase 22:4 135:12

135:12 140:7

phone 9:15

physical 20:9 25:1

122:22 179:18

185:10

physically 22:19,19

100:16 120:11,14

123:20

pick 32:12 175:17

179:2

picture 40:19

182:16

piece 135:4 200:5

207:13

pieces 188:9

pipe 72:5

piping 53:13 61:2

61:15 62:6 72:10

73:15

place 115:21 170:2

places 97:3

plain 35:17

plan 8:14 30:15

146:17 169:3

195:5,10

plane 52:6 55:2,9

89:12

plans 193:20,21

plant 205:13

plants 200:21

plastic 70:1

please 4:3 5:15 7:15

7:16,17 9:16 10:4

10:13 37:20 71:21

90:22 91:4 92:19

170:5 171:4

175:18 176:4,5

206:2

plumbing 68:3

plus 85:9 92:4 99:22

100:3,3,19,20

101:7 105:12

106:22 108:2

111:15 112:1,1

113:6 115:12

131:18 138:3

144:4 185:4,5

pmp 66:2

point 12:11,15 32:5

36:15 37:16 40:1

83:6 84:1,7,9 97:6

97:11 98:22 99:12

111:8 116:2,17,19

123:4,18 125:12

126:11 130:16

137:20 141:20

144:13 155:12

159:3 161:3,14,21

164:22 165:6

171:12 174:14

180:15 183:13

186:21 193:3,11

193:11 200:14

204:6 205:2

point's 203:12

points 72:1 97:7,9

108:5 109:4,17,20

117:10 120:9

126:19 127:8,8,18

138:3 144:21

174:22 176:12

178:12 180:20

181:9 182:2,12,15

182:18,20,20

183:2,11,15

197:13,21 206:18

206:20

pole 85:1 88:10,12

98:10 132:5,6

158:16 159:20

165:15

poles 154:6 158:15

policy 33:8

polynomial 164:12

polyphase 101:8

147:8,17

polypropylene

162:12

pool 49:6 50:20 54:5

54:10 57:21,22

58:13,14,18,20

67:19,22 68:4,13

68:17 69:4,11,15

69:17 70:5,9,15

71:4,11 72:13,21

73:4 74:1,3,7,15

143:4

populating 192:13

population 155:3

194:5

portion 121:10

position 72:2

145:14

positive 19:18 48:17

76:16,18 77:7

87:14,18

possible 123:20

130:16 135:13

181:3 185:22

191:21

potential 126:22

129:4

potentially 156:11

178:10 179:12

power 38:3 45:8,10

60:20 61:4 76:22

83:19 84:1,7 97:1

97:8 98:15 99:15

100:12,13 102:15

103:18,19 105:3

108:4,6,15,16,22

112:15,16,22

113:1,14 114:20

117:12,14,17,20

119:14 120:9

129:15 130:10

133:9,14,15,17

134:2,5,13,14,17

135:4,5,6,16

136:4,5,10,21,22

140:1,1,2,4,7,10

140:13,16,16,17

142:13 143:19,22

144:1,10,12,14,16

144:16 145:4

150:1 157:5,12

176:9,17,18,19

181:2,8,17 186:15

193:7 197:19

198:14,17 199:20

200:6 201:4,19

202:6,14,19 204:7

204:12,20,21

205:5,7,11 206:17

206:20 207:1,2,4

practical 39:16

135:14

practice 47:15

practices 138:19

precisely 132:14

preclude 105:18

precluded 34:3

precluding 40:4

predominantly

160:1

prefer 31:12 34:18

65:7 137:20,21

138:2 155:6

preference 34:16

40:1 138:17

preferences 137:14

Prem 2:16

premise 29:10

preparation 11:20

preparing 83:13

present 7:17 10:4

79:18 82:15 91:11

91:20 107:14

147:14 167:2

180:2 195:18

presentation 18:4

20:19 49:19

presented 20:6

23:20 50:12 78:4

81:10,11 169:8

presenting 72:20

93:14

presents 81:2

press 20:2 157:18

pressing 74:21

143:1

pretty 20:14 23:12

40:11 46:17 74:20

77:8 97:22 121:18

130:17 139:16

155:19,22 159:14

167:7,19 172:4

preventing 79:6

previous 77:2 101:2

159:19 178:15

181:19

previously 16:7

46:19 47:13 89:2

96:1 101:21

112:14 113:16

120:4 131:18

132:8 144:13

149:17 150:2

179:9,21

previously-refere...

143:15

primary 24:22

94:16

prime 22:22

prime-assist 81:4

81:21

principle 127:18

probably 62:18

73:4 92:17 98:16

122:16 138:15,16

139:5 140:15

156:7 170:2

173:18 174:17

199:18 204:19

problem 62:13 65:4

115:16 167:17

181:13 201:11

205:1

procedure 4:6,17

8:12 14:13,21

15:20 16:15 17:8

17:13 18:10 19:1

24:2 31:18 33:11

35:19 41:18 43:14

48:14,22 49:3,4

49:17 50:2,6 73:8

76:13 77:5,21,22

78:8,19 83:17

85:9,11 89:8 94:3

94:6,11,20 95:3

95:13 96:6 99:18

100:18 102:3

103:11 104:2

111:1,12,19 116:4

116:14 120:19

121:16 129:5

130:19 144:9

145:22 147:11

154:8 161:5,15,18

166:5 180:21

181:19 187:17,21

188:12 189:8,13

195:22 196:2,7

205:19
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 225

procedures 1:3 4:22

14:2,4 17:18

43:21 44:9 64:12

71:20 94:14 99:7

107:1 133:20

143:4

proceed 5:12 12:18

51:12 92:20 187:6

proceeding 80:22

91:14

process 14:17 51:9

product 11:1 37:17

37:17 38:5,11

44:15 60:8 65:9

69:19 70:4 87:1

87:15 88:3,16

125:6,18 128:21

146:4 148:6 150:8

151:3 163:3

177:10 178:18

180:8 182:15

190:3 192:22

productive 93:7

products 14:7 32:20

33:8 42:17,18

56:17,18 64:15

85:17 88:7 103:10

150:9 177:3

202:21

profile 109:2

profiles 109:1

program 4:19 13:21

40:5 103:9 164:9

programs 34:7

36:18 42:3 192:1

207:14,19

progress 15:7

193:19

progressed 15:9

prohibitive 135:13

Project 2:9 7:2

promise 157:22

promote 11:22

propeller 51:21

proper 41:21

126:13

proposal 15:16 19:1

38:22 45:2 47:17

105:12 126:21

127:1 149:4

165:10,22 176:7

196:7 201:15

proposals 4:21 5:7

13:14 18:9 128:17

130:8 134:20

propose 125:20

127:15 172:20

202:11

proposed 4:5 13:5

16:5 17:11,22

20:5 23:9,12,14

23:22 24:3 25:17

25:18 26:4 43:4

43:10 45:3 46:9

48:22 49:3,4,22

51:2 72:22 74:19

77:21 78:7,14

81:18,20 83:14

89:3 95:1 97:15

105:22 109:12,17

112:7,7 120:13

121:4,16 127:20

129:2 134:5,11

154:8 158:5

174:11 176:16

177:3 179:6

180:20 181:1,4

184:11 185:2,17

187:18 189:10

194:8 195:4,22

proposing 23:6

48:16 49:16 73:10

94:3,20 107:17

120:16 121:13,19

121:22 126:18

132:9 144:18

154:9 161:5 172:7

174:15 175:16

prospective 73:5

prove 127:3

proven 169:18,20

provide 11:15 34:2

34:4 36:10 39:19

42:20 51:2,7

54:18 124:22

139:12 160:4

175:12

provided 9:21 42:16

79:4 134:12

providers 137:15

provides 49:15

providing 9:3 23:17

25:20

provision 187:16

provisions 21:4

105:13 121:15

129:3,10 130:21

131:20

PSC 98:8

public 1:1 2:3 4:11

12:22 13:1 14:5

16:18

publish 28:22 32:11

published 14:15

16:16,17 57:1

83:1 87:5 159:3

161:7

publishing 160:4

PUC 34:8,12

pull 91:8 190:4

pulled 123:6

pulling 188:8

pully 85:20

pulse 116:21

pump 6:15 8:8

11:18 17:19,20,22

20:6,10 21:1,8,9

21:10,10 22:1,1

22:20,22 23:6,8,9

25:14,15,17 26:2

28:8,9 29:5 30:18

35:3 43:7,16,18

43:20 44:4,15

45:4,8,11,14,17

46:22 47:2,4,6,10

47:17 49:1 51:3,3

51:4,16,17,19,19

52:1,2,3,4,13,15

52:16,16,18,18,22

53:8,9,10,10 54:2

54:13,21 55:1,3,7

55:8,13,13,17,19

55:20,22,22 57:7

57:8,9,22 58:13

58:14 60:22 61:3

64:5 65:12 66:8

68:13,14,17 69:4

69:5,6,11,21

72:13,15 73:4,11

73:12,13,13 74:1

74:1,15,16 75:4

76:11,17,19,20

77:2,12 78:21,22

79:12,12,12,13,20

79:22 81:3,3,3,4,4

81:4,15,18,21

82:1 83:14,18

89:13,14,15,17,22

90:11 93:19 94:7

94:8,8,12,15,16

94:17,19 95:3,6,8

95:9,13,17 96:10

96:12,20 97:2,14

99:3,17,22,22

100:2,3,10,15,16

100:19 101:3,5,7

102:1,1,8,11

103:16,21 104:4,8

105:12 106:6,7,8

106:19,22 107:19

107:19,21 108:1,2

108:5,7,13,15,16

108:21 109:6

110:1,17 111:2,5

111:13,15 112:1

112:13,15,18,19

112:22 113:1,1,5

113:5,9,14,19

114:9,13,15,15,22

114:22 115:1,2,6

115:8,10,10 116:5

116:6,20 117:9,14

117:20 119:13,14

119:15,18 120:5,7

120:9,12,12,14,18

122:16 123:6

124:2,12 126:5

129:5,13,14,16

130:7,9,15,16

131:14,15 132:2,5

134:13,21 135:3

136:1 137:1,7

138:4,21 139:2

141:2 143:4 144:9

144:12,13,15

145:4 147:1

149:16,19,22

151:5,12,13 152:5

152:7 153:19

161:13 162:16

165:14,20 174:22

176:10,13,18,19

177:1,5,10,11,18

177:19,19,20

178:2,4,8 179:22

180:5,17,22 181:2

181:4,14,17,21

182:1 184:17,21

185:2,4,5,13,13

185:18,19 188:10

189:21 190:22

193:6 194:5 196:5

199:6 202:21

207:3

pump's 17:8 52:5

84:16 117:22

pump-specific

174:8 188:5

pumped 51:20 78:5

pumping 21:15

78:22 114:17

196:15

pumps 1:2 2:7 4:6

5:1 10:20 11:4

12:2 14:1,3,12,13

14:22 18:3,6

22:20 24:17,20

25:8,10,21 27:12

29:3 42:17 43:1,3

43:4 46:20 47:19

48:8,10,12,13,14

48:16,17,18,20

49:6,11 50:5,10

50:19,20,22 52:9

52:20 53:16,21,21

53:22 54:5,7,11

55:12,16 57:18,22

58:18,20 59:12

60:1,1,6,7 62:10

63:8 67:19 69:15

69:17 70:6,9 71:5

71:11 72:3,22

76:18 77:4,7,9,16

77:20 78:2,4,9,10

78:10,11,13,15,18

78:21 81:13,18,22

82:2,3,13 83:16

84:14,18 85:5

86:16 88:8 89:6

94:2,6 95:4 96:8

96:11 99:7 101:6

101:14 102:4

103:14 106:1

107:22 113:17

114:1 119:11,16

129:6,17 130:1,4

130:12,13,20

131:22,22 133:11

133:12 143:13

147:5,6 148:21,21

148:22,22,22

149:7,12,14,18,20

151:10 154:7

156:21 158:7,7

159:16 174:12

176:7,14 179:7

181:10,19 185:1

185:11 188:19

193:21 194:9

196:13,15 198:16

purchase 43:16

purchased 33:21

purchasing 196:4

purely 27:10 41:2

purple 50:20 113:3

114:10 154:10

purpose 36:17 58:5

61:2 73:4 148:4,5

purposes 26:20

32:13 91:14 102:2
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 226

181:6

put 13:1 35:7 36:2

44:17 79:15 92:13

118:18 156:18

157:12 179:11

201:14

puts 79:10 157:10

putting 59:16

puzzle 135:5

Q

qualify 95:18

quality 186:15

197:19 198:15,17

199:20 201:4,19

202:19 204:3

205:5 207:4

quantify 196:1

quantity 108:10

128:4

question 28:4 31:19

34:1 41:11,19

42:15 44:12,18

67:17 80:10 85:22

86:13,17 98:6

103:6 105:6 124:9

124:11 137:13

138:6 166:1

188:20 189:16

193:11 200:17

206:3

questions 13:7

16:10,20 44:1

57:15 75:9 103:3

114:11 167:21

179:1 187:15

queue 208:9

quick 67:17 143:3

155:15 205:2

quickly 12:22 13:17

139:16 146:18

191:15

quiet 205:3

quite 85:14 122:15

125:18 143:12

162:13 193:13

quote 190:10

quote-unquote

108:19

R

R 2:18 4:1 171:1

radial 25:13 55:6

raise 9:20

raises 199:5

ran 87:11

randomly 194:11

range 18:11 85:3,8

85:10 131:17,20

132:7 159:11

rapidly 90:22

rate 31:4 47:2,3

84:9 96:19 97:6

114:20 116:20

130:14 144:14,17

144:21 145:2

182:13 183:19

184:6

rated 26:3 38:6

47:17 95:6,7,16

99:21,22 100:2,4

101:4,22 105:22

106:6 108:5,15,21

109:5 113:19

114:17 115:10

129:7,7,11,12

141:11 149:16

166:5 176:7

177:10,10 179:7

180:8 181:22

182:18,22 183:12

rates 177:15 182:18

rating 26:20 27:1

47:19 100:19

106:19 109:4

114:14 132:2

142:20 151:11

180:4 194:2,6,9

194:20 195:1

ratings 27:3 151:12

157:10

ratio 40:22 108:4

112:14 156:3,5

176:8 181:10,17

183:21

rational 38:9

rationale 34:22 41:9

raw 131:1 165:11

165:12,14,18

166:3,7,8

reach 116:13 136:8

read 20:6 24:14

51:8 176:2

reading 41:17

133:16

readings 41:17

ready 67:15 74:22

131:11 168:22

174:16 193:13

reaffirmation 82:17

real 62:13 144:1

155:15 165:9

180:14

realistically 173:22

realized 64:18

realizing 141:10

really 21:13 32:13

34:22 38:3 40:21

47:22 53:4 56:12

58:13,14 64:7

66:18 72:10 73:7

74:5 80:13 85:1

90:16 93:16 96:3

96:6 105:7 114:5

128:19 137:15

139:11,13 145:15

167:12 198:4

205:8

reason 30:9 41:15

45:19 124:10

141:12,14 163:10

172:13

reasonably 141:17

reasoning 106:4

reasons 156:15

rebate 36:18 40:5

42:2

recall 23:3 76:17

80:5

recess 170:9

recognition 188:4

recognize 28:1

157:20 160:14

recognized 9:21

159:6

recognizes 29:5

134:13 135:21

recognizing 93:8

140:15 188:7

recommend 32:9

88:15 133:2

160:19

recommendation

20:16,20 23:15

139:6 202:13

recommendations

76:15 82:9 120:20

121:3 130:3 182:7

recommended 16:2

17:9 18:9 19:2

23:7 49:7,19

54:17 73:6 78:7

95:4 109:2 145:8

recommending

143:6 178:8

reconsider 142:1

record 7:17 9:10

171:10

recordkeeping

91:15

red 49:1 164:16

182:17 183:11

redetermine 177:15

178:16

reduce 39:1 97:13

99:15 178:11

201:5

reduced 97:7 98:15

reduces 27:3

reduction 97:1

102:15,16 182:2

redundant 72:20

refer 50:16,21 96:17

99:18 101:1 185:7

reference 13:12

34:8 55:21 73:21

76:2 77:1,11

81:12,22 82:2

102:9,17 107:17

120:17 148:9,12

175:4,5,11,14

182:3,6,19 183:1

183:5,14 184:8

referenced 45:10

51:5 55:4,22

73:22 101:13

130:22 144:13

154:17

references 81:14

145:17 156:14,15

referencing 57:12

63:11 152:3 159:1

179:11

referred 15:12 86:1

86:3

referring 82:13

refers 100:9,14

103:22 152:8

refined 71:10 73:5

reflect 38:17 104:10

reflected 16:6 115:2

reflective 47:8

reflects 15:17 36:16

112:8,19

Regal 2:22 98:5

137:10 145:12

172:6

regarding 23:16

76:22 129:5

133:21 161:16

regardless 44:17

147:1 163:17

178:3 185:2

regards 4:21

Register 16:18

regression 144:20

regroup 169:3

regulate 135:10

140:4

regulated 21:2

28:21 37:17 42:17

142:4

regulating 135:8

regulation 42:19

44:16,16 58:22

62:12 69:9 135:16

148:4 152:19

157:5,12 190:15

regulations 16:11

23:9 24:14 64:15

64:20 113:10

153:12

regulatory 8:7

14:17 26:17 34:9

39:15,18 40:7,8

40:14 121:6

148:20 155:21

156:1 188:10

191:2 195:21

196:20

reiterates 101:2

related 17:7 29:7

191:17

relation 179:4

relatively 13:17

relaxing 136:11

release 137:19

released 73:22

137:18 138:15

172:17 173:14

175:15

relevant 20:3 23:5

179:11

reliability 133:15

137:5

relook 124:9

remark 12:6 156:18

remarks 4:14 8:3,5

10:7,9,10,12,12

83:12 167:16

remember 129:18

180:9 191:15

remind 15:20

removed 129:3

repeat 63:5 178:16

repeatability

128:18 131:10

133:18 137:5

repeated 17:15

repeatedly 63:7
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 227

replace 179:12

report 29:19 32:14

33:1,20 34:5

36:10 40:2 41:13

41:16,17 83:3

92:12 121:12

192:11 206:4,5

207:12,18

reported 34:9 36:14

40:8 41:12

reporting 32:12,14

34:3,17 121:7

204:14 205:5

represent 25:7

47:10 145:18

161:11 164:1

representation 21:7

167:14 190:2,13

representations

14:5 27:14 28:5

29:12 33:3 41:21

45:15 46:5 187:8

187:19 188:8,15

188:17 189:2,6

190:22 191:2,19

representative

100:19 102:19

113:22 159:9

194:5

represented 26:6

representing 5:18

6:12,14,16,18

194:6

reprimed 82:1

request 11:14 14:14

18:14,22 51:18

59:9 77:6,18

79:19 83:12 91:5

107:10 109:14,16

109:22 119:10

131:3 132:15

155:10 184:11

197:7 206:14

requested 76:2

requesting 47:16

56:3 74:18 97:15

149:7

requests 24:2 56:2

75:11,16 134:19

145:9 166:13

176:6 185:15

195:4

require 33:13 47:17

56:19 103:12

125:22 127:9

134:14 161:5

167:12 197:4

required 31:19 36:7

39:8,9 40:16 41:6

84:2 104:5 113:1

120:10 121:11,13

134:22 136:3

141:10 147:1

161:1 176:20

178:10

requirement 97:2

124:2 133:22,22

139:10 144:9

requirements 11:7

40:18 81:12

104:14 122:3

134:5,17 136:3

137:21,22 138:7

139:6,9,13 145:18

160:13 199:19

203:14

requires 53:11 55:3

73:14 122:3

198:19

requiring 33:13,19

45:16 73:9 143:21

residential 69:17,18

70:2

resolved 202:2

Resources 7:4

respect 88:16

respond 75:14,21

96:18 99:5 135:21

response 12:16

13:13 24:6 48:5

90:9 110:10

125:21 127:15

146:7 193:17

responsibility 191:5

rest 200:7

restroom 208:12

restrooms 90:22

result 5:3 140:8

resultant 100:18

180:4

results 135:18

142:14,15,18

resume 90:18 91:2,5

171:3 208:13

resuming 170:4

reverted 64:17

review 7:22 8:2 64:1

88:19 146:15

171:18 173:4

195:20

reviewed 53:15 57:5

96:7 133:19

134:10 143:14

147:3 153:10

154:22 164:7

171:20 172:18,19

reviewers 76:3

revise 197:9

revisions 173:19

revisit 87:17

reward 171:11

rid 201:3

right 17:4 19:20

30:22 36:15 38:10

43:5 51:15 56:6

60:11 62:16,18

66:12 67:6 69:1

72:4,14 75:12

77:13 82:7 83:11

105:20 107:9

116:13 117:3

126:12 128:8

129:20 141:3

148:3,10,13,16,19

151:1,4,15 153:13

153:14 154:18

167:13 169:9,9

170:1 175:4 181:1

191:8,9 193:2,14

195:14 202:12,12

205:2,21 206:21

208:13

right-hand 110:22

132:3

rigid 53:11 55:3

59:17 61:18 72:2

72:6 73:16

rise 139:3 153:7,8

rises 153:2

risk 27:5,9

river 80:18

Rob 2:21 6:6,9

36:20,21 103:5

104:11 147:22

160:8 163:6,7

208:4

Robert 2:18

Rockwell 2:8

rooftop 43:1,7

room 1:7 10:1,6

168:19 170:6

208:13

Ross 2:11 6:21,21

71:22,22 157:8

192:17

rotate 85:6

rotating 51:21

60:22 83:20 85:19

97:10 132:4

rotation 131:17

132:12

rotodynamic 48:17

49:11 51:3,16,19

52:1,3 54:22 55:8

55:17 73:13 76:19

120:18

rotor 51:21 160:20

160:20 162:19,19

rotors 160:17,18

roughly 169:12

rounded 131:1

165:22

rounding 115:21

130:21

row 75:12 108:19

rows 147:4

Roy 2:12 42:14,22

43:5

RPM 85:6 86:16,21

87:6,8 88:4

132:22

RSV 25:9,12 26:2

49:13

rule 16:22 54:16

148:7 187:17,18

187:22 188:6,17

189:1,10

rulemaking 4:20

12:3 14:14 16:15

18:6 20:14 35:22

54:8 71:10,17

72:14 73:1 78:21

138:16

Rulemaking's 4:5

rulemakings 49:7

73:5

rules 13:5 15:21

16:5 17:11,14,22

43:4 115:18 188:3

run 37:10 75:15

140:3 207:14,19

208:12

run-out 130:12

running 140:6

165:14 167:9

191:22 199:13

Ruzicka 2:13 6:17

6:17 21:17,19,19

21:22 22:7,18

27:21,21 37:21,21

40:13 46:12 56:16

56:16,21 60:18,19

61:8,18,22 62:3

69:13,13 80:16

85:13,13 86:3,7

86:22 87:3 88:6

90:2 115:16

116:18 117:2,5

119:20 122:13,13

123:11,16 128:11

132:17 135:2,2

136:17 139:17

142:7,11 150:7,17

150:22 151:9,16

151:21 152:1,6,12

152:22 153:13

157:1 159:22

162:4 165:7 166:1

166:6,11 175:20

176:5 177:8 178:1

178:11,21 184:13

184:18

S

S 4:1 171:1,1,1

safe 130:16

sake 172:22

sale 20:11 21:3

26:19

sales 190:5 192:18

192:19 193:1

196:12

sample 194:12,14

sampling 8:14

146:17 193:20,21

195:5,10

San 5:20

Sarah 2:6 7:13 17:3

21:17 23:4 27:12

59:8 60:19 76:1

90:2 92:21 105:1

118:3 127:18

131:12 135:2

156:2 159:22

172:12,18 173:4

175:11 187:6

197:12

Sarah's 17:1 93:19

satisfactory 203:2

saturation 79:5

save 96:7,12

saved 71:5

savings 42:5 97:1

97:20 108:22

139:12

saw 13:5 67:19,19

67:21 131:17

saying 32:1 69:7

87:4 123:1,9

151:8,9 205:4
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 228

says 27:15,18 29:15

62:11 125:7

132:20 166:6,7

206:4

SBA 196:13

scale 39:1 144:4

202:14

scales 38:20

schedule 93:1

scheme 28:18 33:5

50:13 51:10 114:8

scope 8:7 10:22 17:8

17:12 18:5 19:1

43:3,12 44:8 50:6

67:9 70:14 71:5,8

71:15,19 76:13

77:4,10,20 78:4

83:16 89:2

scratching 59:17

sealing 162:8

sealless 81:3

seats 4:3 91:4 171:4

second 26:9 91:15

126:1 175:3

200:20

Secondly 57:20

seconds 122:1,4,8

122:14,19 123:17

123:20 128:3,4

section 6:8 15:22

50:9 82:2 121:14

146:18 153:11

sections 121:5,7

secured 170:6

see 4:12 7:7,20

15:13 18:4 26:15

40:21 46:8 48:18

50:11 53:22 54:12

68:21 78:9 83:4

91:1 92:15 99:20

117:9 123:8 125:1

126:7,12 127:5

135:6 147:4,8

149:9 154:4,10

159:4,17 163:10

164:18 169:4

170:7 175:7,18

183:11,14 193:5

199:3 201:12

206:21

seeing 80:19 124:10

seek 13:13

seeking 13:3 19:8

seeks 176:10

seemingly 202:3

seen 5:7

selected 85:8 150:4

164:15 194:11

selection 38:11

self-priming 81:4

81:21

sell 28:8,9,14 33:7

58:18,19

selling 28:13

semantics 59:2

sense 28:8 30:10

46:3 57:10 82:18

105:13

separate 22:21

47:20 58:2 74:14

91:14 92:13 107:4

113:12

serious 199:5

serves 53:9

service 150:9,10,12

150:14,15,17,18

151:1,7,17 152:6

152:8,15,17,19,20

153:3,6

serving 108:7,16

session 91:13

sessions 15:8

set 17:18 27:10 33:5

71:19

seven 15:6

severely 200:13

shaft 52:4,7 53:9,10

55:2,10 61:3

68:15 69:22 83:22

84:7 89:14,15

113:1,13 117:17

119:14 130:9

149:22 176:19

181:2

shaking 68:21

shape 76:17 89:12

89:16 114:22

share 9:13 37:2

sheet 5:5 10:21

15:10,11,16,18

16:5 35:8 78:7

shop 90:20 170:2

short 91:3 99:1

167:21 203:2

shorter 5:22 122:10

shortly 190:20

show 182:4 206:6

showed 118:16

180:11

showing 56:11

140:11

shown 103:21

115:11 164:11

169:19

shows 35:10,11

109:10 110:19

111:2 125:1

side 52:5 60:5 63:6

70:2,3,15 154:11

203:15,15,16

sidebar 9:16

significance 116:3

116:11

significant 80:6

82:11 115:19

116:10 145:3

162:10 196:21,22

significantly 32:18

112:6 176:12

198:3

silent 9:15

similar 26:7 53:20

107:15 111:16,17

117:8 143:3

166:21 181:18

194:9

similarly 50:19

52:15 81:18 95:9

102:20 108:14

143:6 147:18

181:14

simplicity 33:18

simplified 32:14

simplify 26:12

simply 34:11,14

42:9 80:10

Simultaneous 65:16

single 26:19 47:20

51:3 52:15 54:21

54:22 55:8 73:12

73:12 98:7 202:7

202:15

single-phase 70:6,7

70:20 101:4 105:1

105:9 106:14

107:1

single-stage 52:2

55:16

sir 154:21

situation 45:19

situations 42:11

six 26:3 79:21

size 113:17,18 150:4

194:12 196:13

sized 113:13

skinny 162:18

skip 171:19,19

slender 162:19

sliced 77:22

slide 13:9,12 21:6

25:11 45:1 48:9

49:15 50:11 51:8

53:3 75:4 79:20

81:2 82:5 95:11

101:2 102:22

104:17 109:8

117:7 118:16,21

119:5 129:19

159:19 164:13

169:4,16 171:17

172:8,10 175:17

175:21 179:2,17

180:9,10 184:20

185:9,12,20 187:7

195:17 206:9

slides 12:21 15:20

17:6,14 75:12

76:22 93:14 94:2

100:8 129:21

130:11 131:13

166:14,21 169:9

170:8 171:16

172:3 193:19

slight 20:17 23:15

60:9

slightly 54:15

113:21 140:6,7

182:9

slowed 133:1

small 59:12 115:18

124:5 196:13,17

196:19,21 197:1,2

197:4,16 200:13

smaller 122:16

135:15 202:9

software 9:21

solar-powered 87:7

sold 21:9,10,10

45:18 84:18 94:6

94:8,8,15,17,18

95:4,7,7 99:7

100:20 101:3,14

103:15 107:20,22

119:16,18 129:14

129:16,17 131:22

131:22 133:11,12

147:2,5,6 149:18

149:19,20 150:8,9

151:2,10,11 152:1

152:7 158:7

177:18 178:4

180:5 181:10,14

185:3,19

solid 79:1,3

solids 20:8,9 68:9

80:12

solution 202:11

204:20

Solutions 2:3 4:12

somebody 198:17

somewhat 138:9

soon 192:12

sorry 26:14 66:10

116:18 118:3

127:9 154:21

156:17 157:1

192:7

sort 18:5 46:17

75:12 97:3 103:21

110:19 159:2

164:19 179:19

182:3

sorts 207:4

source 24:22 144:3

144:5

sources 129:4

Southern 5:19,21

speak 6:4 9:10,11

9:22 69:2,3 135:8

137:11

speaking 6:1 13:21

62:1 65:16 160:9

202:4

special 61:2 148:5

specific 14:22 16:13

18:12 23:7,22

24:16 25:17,18

43:18 44:3,7 47:8

48:8 49:1 51:17

52:9 53:17 54:4

56:7 59:22 63:16

63:18 64:16 65:9

72:20 75:3 76:11

76:22 78:3,17

81:12 82:2 83:12

84:6,19 92:7

94:12 96:16 99:19

106:9 107:10

108:5 110:17

111:2 114:20

121:2,5,8,18

129:7,16 130:5,7

130:8,13 133:6

134:16 144:10,12

150:2 158:21

159:5,13 193:22

198:4

specifically 13:2

14:11,20 15:21

35:20 43:3 48:14
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 229

49:5,6 50:1,17

52:19 67:1 71:11

73:20 74:2,7 77:9

78:12 92:17 95:14

119:12 121:11

135:14 140:22

148:19 156:1

174:10 195:5

196:18 197:5

specification 34:15

81:16 82:12 125:8

134:11

specifications 40:8

42:10 129:18

specificity 57:6

64:10 72:13 99:13

specified 26:7 33:22

34:11 85:3 116:14

120:9 129:10,11

144:6

specify 103:12

121:22 127:22

specifying 129:6,12

159:14 204:2

speed 76:22 85:3,10

85:14,15,17,19,19

86:2,2,5,6,7,14,21

88:10,11,11,12

96:10,14,18,22

97:10,21 98:8

102:15 114:20

115:10 116:21

129:5,7,7,10,10

129:11,13 131:14

131:16 132:3,4,10

132:11,11,20,22

133:3,21 136:5

138:9 143:19

145:21 149:15,16

153:21 165:11,15

165:15,20 166:5

176:19 181:22,22

182:1,14 183:16

183:17,17,21,22

183:22 207:4

speeds 83:20 88:9

98:15,21,22

spend 198:9

split 25:13 55:6

spoken 132:20

St 6:7

stabilization 122:2

122:4,14 124:20

126:9 127:3,6

128:1

stabilized 122:5

127:4

stable 123:2,7,9,11

123:12,18 124:13

124:15,22 125:1,7

125:11

stage 26:5 54:21

55:10,20 73:12

130:5,7

stages 25:18,21 26:2

26:3,3,4,7 27:16

55:18 84:2,6

130:1,5

stakeholders 8:4

10:6

stand 7:16,17 54:19

100:11

standard 11:1,9,11

14:10,22 16:2

17:9,12,16 18:10

19:2 40:16 41:3,3

41:20,20 42:8,9

43:14 83:17 84:3

106:7,8,8,11,13

106:17 107:5

108:10,18,20

114:4,13,21 115:4

116:10 119:12

120:17 121:10

124:17 127:21

128:8 133:3

137:16 138:5,12

138:16 141:14

143:6 144:8

145:15,20 146:2

148:4,21 149:2,11

156:20 158:9

163:22 172:18,21

172:22 173:9,18

175:15 178:1

179:10 188:3

191:20 192:9

194:22 195:3

196:14 208:9,14

standards 2:9 4:7

4:19,22 7:2 11:5

14:2,13 17:19

41:5 43:21 44:9

48:15,22 49:3,12

49:17 50:3,6

64:12 71:20 76:13

77:5,22 78:8,19

83:1 101:16 116:7

134:10 143:15

156:5 158:3,22

167:8 172:14,16

180:6 189:5,9

standpoint 39:15,16

145:18 168:2

stands 123:21

Starr 206:3,14,19

207:6,9

start 4:13 5:13 17:7

38:2 93:13 168:7

169:4,11 172:7

189:12 192:13

199:3

started 64:20

135:11

starting 17:17

19:14 172:10

state 38:14 119:20

122:21 139:1

statement 16:2

85:16 166:7

statements 8:4,5

static 159:2 182:8

stating 142:7

statistical 174:20

194:18

statutory 13:16

187:16

stay 97:9

staying 63:12

steady 122:21

step 17:21 107:13

stick 63:12 100:10

stop 114:3 118:4

143:10

straight 89:11

185:8

strainer 54:3 57:20

58:1,1 67:2,20,21

68:9,18 74:4,12

strainers 58:19,20

58:21

streamlined 27:19

strongly 63:8

struggle 63:15,18

63:21

struggled 59:11

66:18

stuff 9:4 69:18 87:7

93:5 142:2 167:18

170:6 173:6

186:20

style 84:19

styles 84:20

subject 48:21 49:2

49:11 158:2

submerged 55:13

55:18 153:6

submersible 25:15

49:13 55:19 86:15

101:9 103:7,8,12

103:15,16,21,22

104:6,7 113:12

147:13 149:11,13

149:13,14 150:7

150:11 151:6,12

153:1,11,16

157:21 158:2,6,8

158:11 159:10,14

160:15 161:6,10

161:12,15 162:2,6

162:7

submersibles 86:14

submit 10:5 61:11

93:9 140:21

submitted 121:11

164:7

submitting 18:17

subsequent 49:7

51:5 79:20 130:11

subsequently 14:15

16:17 18:8 52:10

substantive 171:21

subsumed 27:8

117:19

Subway 170:2

suction 49:14,14

50:18 51:3 52:2,9

52:10,11,12,13

53:2,8,9,20,21

54:9 62:10 66:6

69:5 73:11 74:1

74:14

sufficient 11:3

87:17 143:20

194:12

sufficiently 77:3

suggest 135:17

170:1 205:17

207:21

suggested 37:13

suggestion 65:18

86:1 90:6

suggestions 73:20

77:19 90:7 99:16

115:13 136:11

140:21

summary 13:12

184:20 185:9

supplement 179:13

supplied 105:3

138:11

supplies 137:1

supply 53:13 72:10

73:14 129:15

133:9,15 134:5,13

134:15,17 135:16

144:3,5 152:2

157:5

support 10:20 73:14

93:18

supported 53:13

61:1,14 62:6

supportive 131:5,7

supposed 35:7

183:4

sure 9:7 12:20

16:11 31:8 32:1,4

50:3,7 51:11 53:5

57:20 58:4 62:9

66:2 69:15 72:1

72:15 85:22 87:11

88:1,20 90:5

105:2,17 122:20

125:11,22 126:10

129:3 136:9 146:1

148:18 152:14

159:8 162:5 170:5

171:10,10 174:1,3

174:8,10 206:15

surface 152:22

163:1

survey 158:11

159:6 161:18

198:5

surveys 199:11

suspended 55:7

SW 1:8

switch 95:18

switched 100:1

system 44:5 61:2

68:8 96:20 97:6

102:9,9,12,18

182:3,6,19,22

183:1,5,14,17

184:13

T

T 171:1

table 21:6 38:22

45:2 98:13 104:13

104:13 106:20

147:14 153:18

154:2,15 155:8

156:7 157:22

158:1,6,10,18

159:2,3,18 160:5

161:8 173:11,13

201:4

tables 160:19

TACO 2:18,19 6:11
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 230

take 4:3 8:9,15

13:10 25:22 40:10

44:2 56:9 66:15

90:13,14,17 91:4

107:13 108:21

124:13 127:8

142:15 162:15

165:5 167:5 170:7

171:4,15 173:9

181:9,17

taken 91:3 110:6

114:19 170:9

201:19 203:12

takes 79:9 90:21

117:14

talk 4:20 17:2,15

39:17 49:8 59:14

60:5 110:13 118:1

129:20,22 130:11

137:13 138:9

142:2 146:11

165:9 167:14

180:14 188:6,11

198:22,22

talked 87:14 157:11

172:9 186:15

198:20 199:4

207:1

talking 5:3 15:1

37:22 38:19 43:19

43:22 69:14 70:16

87:4,6,10 105:2

135:11 148:6

201:2 202:20

203:12

task 67:7

team 155:6 163:1

technical 154:21

155:6 173:15,17

technically 60:8

technologies 98:14

99:14 139:7,11

Technology 2:11

6:22

teed 155:19

telephones 9:20

tell 57:13 63:20

64:22

temperature 83:19

84:13 121:15,18

121:20 153:2,7

ten 45:18 130:18

term 5:5 10:21

15:10,11,16,18

16:5 26:17 35:8

36:8 52:19 54:22

65:3,3 78:7 105:1

105:18 193:1

204:1

terminology 53:22

77:17 85:1 132:7

terms 13:16 15:9

16:13,15 36:3

38:11 61:13 62:20

66:2 85:18 95:2

96:5 106:3 117:9

117:20 128:12

203:17

test 1:3 4:6,17,21

8:11 11:8 14:2,4

14:12,21 15:19

16:15 17:8,13,18

18:10 19:1 24:2

27:4,4 29:2 31:17

33:11,12 35:19

37:1,1,4,5 41:18

43:14,21 44:9

45:16 48:14,22

49:3,4,17 50:2,6

64:12 71:20 73:8

76:13 77:5,21,21

78:7,18 83:16

85:9,10 89:8 94:3

94:6,11,13,20

95:3,13 96:5 99:6

99:18,19 100:5,9

100:11,15,16,18

102:2 103:11

104:2 105:13

106:22 110:22

111:12,19 112:18

120:19 121:7,12

121:16,17,19

123:20 124:11,16

125:6,14 127:21

128:18,20,22

129:4 130:4 131:9

131:19 132:12

133:3,19,19

134:21 135:3

136:1 139:3 140:9

140:14,18 141:8

141:15,16 142:15

143:3 144:9

145:22 146:2

147:11 154:7

157:9,10 160:20

160:22 161:1,4,5

161:13,15,17

166:4 175:8

177:11,14,19,20

178:2,12 179:22

180:7,17,20 183:4

183:10 184:21

185:9,10,17

187:17,20 188:12

189:8,13 194:1,3

194:20 195:22

196:2,5,7,10

197:15,22 198:2,8

198:13,16,22

199:1 200:9,10,22

205:19 206:17,20

tested 26:6 35:4

101:9,17 103:17

104:13 111:3

112:16,22 114:16

123:7 128:21

132:10 133:2

177:3,18 178:5

182:15,20 185:1

190:12 195:6

tester 123:1

testing 4:18 25:18

27:9 41:6 84:3

94:21 100:22

103:8,9,12 114:9

120:6,19 121:15

121:20 125:11,14

125:17 127:5

134:15 138:19

139:18 142:12

143:13 145:21

147:18 157:11,13

161:6 176:17

177:14 178:9,15

178:16 180:11

182:1 183:7

185:22 194:11

196:11

testing-based 8:13

100:6,7 102:17,21

103:7,14 104:9

110:16,21 112:15

117:10 135:22

143:16 146:16

147:16,19 166:19

176:8 179:18

180:13,14 184:20

184:22 185:10

tests 199:13

text 20:18 46:10

50:16 53:5 120:5

148:20

thank 6:3,9 10:16

12:5,7,13 19:13

20:4 22:8,13 23:1

42:1 57:4,15 58:7

59:6 61:10 63:1

66:21 67:13 72:7

76:6 80:5,20 86:9

98:4 104:22 107:6

110:7 119:6 120:1

126:14 127:16

133:4 148:17

157:19 163:13

178:20 191:12

193:2 195:11,12

199:7

thanks 5:11 7:19

17:5 23:2 46:13

76:8 115:17

116:16 119:8

128:16 157:17,17

178:21 192:15

202:17 208:1

thereof 24:20

thing 19:5 27:5

28:19 35:2 51:19

59:21 67:2 69:15

131:12 139:17

141:6 157:2

167:15 188:5

198:11 200:19

things 5:2 62:8

67:10 70:13 71:16

123:2 131:9 153:2

165:18 188:3,13

188:22 191:1

198:14 201:20

203:11 207:10,17

207:17

think 13:18 15:22

17:1 29:22 31:3

32:10,13 33:12

34:16,21 36:12

39:5,6,7,11 40:11

41:19 43:17 44:11

45:1 56:10 57:2

59:9,13 60:3

62:13,18 63:15

64:6 65:22 66:1

68:10,12,17 71:3

71:17 72:14 74:19

74:22 77:8 82:4

90:2,19 93:7 99:5

99:12 107:6 110:5

116:1 124:9 125:4

125:12,16 127:2

131:7 136:12,19

140:17,21 155:11

155:14,18 156:8

157:15 164:13

168:3 173:3,22

174:17 179:20

180:10 187:14

188:22 189:15,16

190:20 191:8,16

193:3 197:18,20

197:22 198:2,5,7

198:9,11,18 199:8

199:15 201:19

202:9,14 203:10

203:11,14,16

205:3,3,18 206:8

206:12 207:18

thinking 42:21

65:14 71:20 87:1

171:18 186:7

199:12,12

third 54:2 109:20

109:20,20 128:21

139:3 140:13

159:18 198:12,16

thought 19:7 36:6

36:13 38:19 77:2

110:8

thoughtful 110:5,9

thoughts 58:8

thousand 200:4

three 8:1 47:6,9

54:1 94:16 109:19

110:22 117:19

164:22 181:9

191:7 200:21

threshold 89:5

thresholds 195:8

throttle 182:14

throw 157:2,14

thrust 162:16

tied 113:19 131:16

tight 22:11

tightened 141:13

time 9:10,11,14

13:7 20:11 21:2,3

22:11 48:2 75:15

90:8 93:5 110:13

122:6,10 123:4

128:6,7 138:11,15

148:7 156:8 159:4

167:9 171:6

173:11,13 189:4

189:11 190:11,15

191:6

timely 9:8

timer 96:3

times 165:1

tiny 176:15

today 4:8,20 5:3

7:21 8:19 9:8
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 231

11:10 13:6,19

14:19 15:1,13

16:14,19 18:10

43:22 59:1 66:21

76:14 77:5 81:5

93:8 107:17 137:2

137:17 138:13,20

152:19 161:2

167:9 174:11

189:17 190:14,18

192:19 195:18

196:4 197:13

201:18

today's 10:18

told 37:10

tolerance 122:7

183:4

tolerances 129:8

134:20 136:12

137:6 141:15

142:1 194:20

tools 190:5 192:18

192:19 193:1

top 66:9 147:4

148:3

topics 146:11

torque 136:6 176:20

total 79:4 133:22

134:7

totally 9:19 20:8

28:20 40:19

Towsley 87:15

track 18:19 38:10

76:3

transcript 9:12

87:18 88:19 208:8

transferring 144:8

transition 191:4,5

208:3

treat 202:22

tried 114:8 185:21

195:22

trim 28:1,1,17 29:2

29:3,14,19 30:11

33:22 35:5,12

36:16 38:2,8,9,18

39:2 40:15,17

44:21,21 45:13,20

45:20,21,22

trimmed 35:10,11

47:20

trimming 35:17

38:2

trims 28:9,22 29:4,6

31:10 32:11,12

38:16 45:18

true 177:10 194:16

207:2

truly 153:5

try 8:20 67:3 138:21

143:9 146:21

186:19 188:20

189:18 196:8

trying 9:18 28:8

56:13 59:18 61:15

62:4 64:1 67:6

71:2,4,13,13,18

72:10 82:12 128:7

129:18 132:21

141:20 167:6,20

186:14,21 195:13

TSD 175:6

turbine 25:15 49:13

turn 40:4 204:6

turned 9:15 202:15

turning 5:14

two 4:20 13:5 20:16

22:4 24:16 25:8

25:17 27:5,11

36:4 43:6 46:1

66:6 71:3 75:11

77:3 79:9,15

91:19 93:3 97:12

107:18 109:1

143:10 145:9

160:14,19 163:9

165:17 171:22

174:17 185:14,14

194:3,14,15

two-phase 22:19

tying 158:20 159:15

type 17:19,22 24:19

48:11 52:12 54:13

61:3 68:3 94:14

94:14 96:10,21

98:14 124:3 127:3

146:3 148:14

163:10 185:18

types 32:22 67:18

68:2 96:6,8 97:16

99:8 107:5 110:1

135:7 160:14

163:9 188:6

typical 134:21

135:3 136:22

162:22

typically 69:14

89:15 96:8 153:8

188:16 194:3

U

U.S 1:1,6 14:7

167:15 200:22

U.S.C 11:12

uh-huh 65:13 75:5

186:17

UL 81:19

ultimately 5:5 15:11

27:7 66:19 141:11

188:10

Umm 157:8

unambiguous 57:6

57:12 59:10 74:10

74:13 89:4

unanticipated 11:7

unclear 16:11

uncontrolled

112:13 117:8

underlie 14:4

understand 29:21

33:18 41:8 44:3

59:16,18 70:16

87:3 105:14

125:22 126:3,6,8

136:20 137:4

145:17,22 152:15

155:2 162:5 174:5

175:14 191:5

201:22 203:13,20

205:4

understanding

85:22 106:5,14

139:22 163:2

understood 146:2

unfortunate 139:8

unfortunately

137:17 138:14

165:7 172:20

175:21

unintended 126:22

unintentionally

73:9

unique 53:17 61:3

69:11 78:17 128:9

uniquely 25:8

unit 24:13 35:9

units 24:19 43:1

193:22 194:5

universe 18:3 48:10

unmute 9:22

unnecessarily 50:10

unnecessary 125:16

updated 160:5

upgrades 196:5

201:1

upper 194:15

upstream 100:12

USDOJ 3:6

use 12:1 14:4 16:1

26:17 36:22 40:7

41:16,17 43:1

63:9 65:2 75:7

78:22 102:13

103:9 104:5

105:12,20 134:11

136:2 145:3,16,20

147:7 149:12

150:20 151:16

154:9 155:7 156:6

157:3,14 160:1

161:6 178:8 184:2

184:3,5,9 187:8

187:19 188:14

192:21 203:22

useful 19:8 20:2

23:2 46:14 57:2

57:19 96:4 110:6

191:21

users 34:3,5 162:1

uses 112:2

utilities 5:18 12:8

33:18 192:8

202:19

utility 21:15 81:22

207:19

utilize 64:9 138:16

146:3 151:2

178:13

utilized 34:1 150:11

150:13 153:5

156:2

utilizes 61:2

utilizing 150:8

V

value 101:13 116:5

140:11 155:7

183:20

values 28:11,13

115:3 131:1

141:11 160:3

165:11,18 181:18

183:12 188:2,12

variability 99:2

194:19 195:6,6

variable 95:14

96:18 108:13

109:3,6 133:21

138:9 143:19

145:21 178:14

207:3

variation 25:20

141:9 152:9

variety 29:4 32:19

156:15 190:22

vary 132:12

varying 47:1,7

verbatim 20:14

23:13 114:6

verification 4:18

verify 141:16

versions 190:1

versus 27:9 52:20

99:10 109:3,11

138:4 203:3,15

vertical 25:13,14

49:13 55:6 86:13

160:10,13

vertically 55:7

vetted 11:2

VFDs 96:17

vice-versa 62:14

view 12:2

viscous 162:13

VL 31:5 35:8 120:8

184:14 194:12

voltage 133:22

134:4,6 135:6,8

135:10 136:22

140:4 144:1 200:3

volume 79:5

voluntarily 34:6,18

34:19 36:11 40:3

41:12,16

voluntary 40:5 42:2

189:3

volute 52:6 55:1

77:1,11

vote 173:14

voted 16:7 83:21

VTS 25:10,14 55:16

84:14 86:22 158:7

163:3

Vuppuluri 2:16

W

W 2:14

walls 137:8

Waltner 2:15 7:3,3

want 9:6,7 15:20

16:11 25:7 27:2

27:13 28:4,12,14

28:15 31:9 33:7

34:6 35:2 38:15

39:3 40:13 50:7

51:7 62:9,9 63:14

67:7 71:22 72:14

77:15 87:11 88:17

92:5,6,7,17 97:16

98:20 118:17
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 232

119:20 123:8

125:10,17,21

141:5,21 145:13

145:19 146:1,19

148:18 157:9

161:4 162:5 166:2

167:5,7,14 172:2

173:6 180:7 186:4

191:18 192:4,4,9

192:12 199:10

200:11 201:10,13

202:21 203:13

205:2

wanted 16:12 27:22

28:22 30:10 34:4

38:14 42:2 65:17

67:18 74:6 82:6

83:4 85:14,16

98:12 116:19

123:7 161:11

162:4 164:1

175:20 179:3

193:15 201:22

202:14

wanting 105:17

warts 203:3

Washington 1:9

4:10

wasn't 126:7 175:21

199:18

water 25:3,4 68:2,4

69:6,21 74:2,7

78:9,10,11,13,15

78:20,21,22 79:4

79:7,11,12,12,13

79:14,17,20,22

80:16,18,18,21

81:18 83:18

121:17 162:13

203:1,4

way 11:17 27:10

33:10 35:14 38:9

40:21 42:8 62:21

65:5 68:14 69:5

89:9 100:20

111:11 128:21

136:9 157:12

158:10 164:3

165:18 169:6

187:15 188:16

192:11 201:8,15

ways 48:12 68:11

71:3 78:1 125:9

125:16 201:5

we'll 5:2 8:9 20:20

25:15 49:8 51:18

60:4 73:2 74:21

77:11 79:20 85:7

90:6,17,18 91:1

94:21 99:5,10

100:7 106:5 114:3

114:4 118:1

128:11 130:10

147:14 154:18

155:10 157:14

160:4 169:6 170:4

170:7 175:12

177:21 187:5

191:10 198:22

199:1 200:11

we're 4:4 5:10,12

12:17 13:2,13

15:1 16:18,19

17:7 18:10 19:14

22:11 24:9 25:20

39:7 41:1,4,5,6

42:12 43:11,13,22

44:2 47:15 48:8

51:4,9 53:4,7

58:22 61:22 62:19

63:12 66:14 69:14

69:16 70:19 71:3

71:13,18,20 73:8

73:10 74:22 76:8

76:21 78:2 80:22

83:4,8,9,14 87:4

88:20 90:10,16

91:5 92:20 93:1,6

93:12 100:21

104:2 107:13

108:9 110:13,13

111:8 112:10

113:7 116:14

119:5 120:1,3,7

122:11,15 125:20

129:12,22 131:7

131:13,16 137:15

140:6,15,18,19

141:4 142:12,22

143:3,6,8 144:9

146:8,10,10,18

148:6 149:12

154:1 155:9,19,22

157:18 159:1

160:21 167:7

168:15,16 169:11

169:17 171:3

175:16 179:1,14

179:16,17 183:3,3

186:14,20,21,22

189:17 193:13

195:13 201:2,6

202:20 203:12

204:1 205:4,4,5

206:16 207:1,7

208:2,12

we've 13:18 15:13

15:13 16:4 33:9

37:1 39:5,16

40:11 44:8 47:16

47:22 57:18 58:4

64:15,16,16 73:2

73:17 74:16,19

90:15 100:1

107:17 108:3

118:21 130:1

131:8 139:18

143:1 147:2 156:1

158:14 159:22

163:3 166:21

168:13 169:22

171:4 196:3

197:13 200:6

208:7

wear 90:19

weary 155:22

web 9:19 10:4

webinar 9:17 92:11

92:12

Wednesday 1:12

week 58:16 191:9

weeks 66:16,17

weight 181:8

weighted 108:4,6,14

108:15 109:18,21

112:14 113:2

117:11

weighting 109:17

Weintraub 3:2 7:10

7:10 206:11

welcome 4:5,19 5:10

7:20 9:17 13:6

16:9 19:19 22:10

66:20 177:6

welcoming 4:13

went 66:16 110:4

weren't 15:2 69:1

81:5 127:5

wet 160:17,19

whichever 45:11

194:21

whoever's 125:14

127:11

Widder 2:6 7:13,13

17:3,4 19:14,18

20:4 21:18,21

22:6,8 23:5 24:8

24:11 26:10,14

28:19 29:20 31:14

42:20 43:2,9

44:22 46:15 48:7

51:13,15 56:20

57:4 59:19,21

60:11,13,17 61:12

61:21 62:2,4 63:2

63:14 65:7,12,17

66:5 69:1 72:8,18

75:2,8,11,20 76:7

76:10 80:4,7 81:1

81:9 83:11 85:21

86:5,9 89:1 90:5

90:10,14 92:21,22

94:1 98:3 99:4

103:4,11 104:16

105:9,16,20 107:9

109:16 110:12

114:12 116:1

117:1,4,7 118:5,8

118:12,19 119:7

119:10,22 120:3

125:3 127:19

128:14,17 131:11

131:14 133:4,7,9

135:20 140:20

143:8 146:9,14

148:1,11,14,17

150:13,21 151:4

151:15,19,22

152:4,10,13

153:14,16,18

154:18 155:14

157:19 160:6

161:3 163:5,13

165:17 166:4,9,12

166:16 169:8

172:9 176:2,6

177:17 178:4,19

179:3 181:13

184:16,19 186:17

187:1,7,13 193:3

193:14,18 195:11

195:15,17 205:18

206:1

widely 83:4

Williams 3:4 7:8,8

38:13 87:13 88:18

willing 156:13

189:17

windage 162:11

wipe 27:7

wire-to-water 100:9

101:17 103:15,17

110:21 120:6

133:19 134:15

161:13 176:16

180:17 185:1

wish 10:2,16,18

12:15 33:2

wondering 98:20

word 124:13

wording 5:8 22:3

56:7 132:19

191:10

words 41:14 69:20

88:11 185:11

wordy 53:3

work 12:10 13:19

59:20 72:3 74:17

110:4 127:14

141:12 173:7

190:8 201:21

206:1 207:10

working 5:4 10:17

10:20 11:3 12:11

13:20 14:20 15:3

15:5,7,21 17:10

17:21 18:8 19:3

19:22 20:15 21:12

23:7,14 31:20

49:8,20 54:3,17

56:5 72:9 73:6

74:6,11 76:14

78:6,15 79:10,11

80:3 81:19,20

82:9 83:22 84:21

85:5 87:14 94:5

95:4 101:10 102:7

107:16 108:12

109:2,19 110:9

114:6 120:20

130:3 143:3

144:19 145:6,8

149:5 154:17

163:22 166:22

167:19 182:5,8

199:4

works 14:17 47:19

114:3 128:10

142:21 187:16

188:16

worry 87:19,21

200:6

worse 205:10

worthy 198:7

wouldn't 40:17

95:18,19 97:5,18

102:16,18 107:3

121:13,21 125:6,7

152:1 178:16

190:6
Commercial and Industrial Pumps Test Procedures Meeting

April 29, 2015

202-347-3700 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc. 866-928-6509

Page 233

writing 75:22

written 9:3,5 10:5

16:1,19 18:17

22:13 32:5 56:8

59:7 72:19 83:3

93:9 125:5,21

126:17,21 127:15

165:6 166:17

187:5 193:4 199:2

wrong 206:10

wrote 124:14

X

Xerox 91:10

Xylem 2:13,14 6:13

6:17 32:7 58:11

70:12 80:1

Y

ya 131:11

yeah 26:10 30:17

32:16,19 51:14

59:19 60:18 62:3

62:4 65:18 66:22

68:19 75:5,20

76:5 80:21 82:20

83:6 87:10 97:22

103:6 118:5,8,12

126:2 127:13

136:15 137:10

141:5 148:12

151:21 166:16

169:15 178:22

186:4,5 199:10

203:22 204:11

206:22

year 16:17,22

years 142:4 191:7,7

yep 60:17 80:7 98:1

103:4 128:14

148:11 152:10,13

154:18 163:2

167:22 181:13

205:18

yield 176:11

Z

0

0.01 131:2

0.25 79:2

0.95 115:3

0.985 115:3

1

1 20:16 84:8 132:20

132:21 134:12

150:18,22 155:8

159:11

1,000 72:4

1,782 133:1

1,800 85:6 131:18

132:18,22

1.0 195:1

1.1 194:17

1.1-1.2-2014 57:1

1.15 151:18

1.4 150:19,20,21

151:2,3

1:15 170:4,8

1:27 171:2

10 79:7 84:13 122:4

122:19 123:16

126:10 142:3

154:3 158:18

159:18 182:21

10:30 82:5

10:45 90:17

100 37:2,5,11 109:5

109:7 112:17

113:2 130:18

133:1 144:20

159:12 164:5

182:12 200:4

1000 1:8

11:00 90:18 91:2

110 109:5 112:17

113:2 115:3

130:15 144:20

165:8

112 137:21

12 63:5 155:8

12-10 155:8

12:30 169:18

120 84:13 113:14,19

119:15 144:20

150:1,4 151:6,20

1210 134:8,12

137:22 145:15

1212 163:11

13 75:9

13th 14:13

14 75:9

15 90:18

15th 16:21

17 75:9

17639F 81:15

180 187:21 189:4

190:4

18th 10:21

2

2 23:15 56:18 84:21

98:20 122:6

126:18 144:4

154:5,13 158:14

158:16 159:20

2- 183:15

2-4 98:10 132:5

2-6 98:10

2-speed 99:9

2:05 208:15

20 11:13 131:19

132:10 142:3

200 72:4 84:8 135:9

2011 14:14

2013 14:19

2014 10:21

2015 1:12 4:8

173:15

2016 173:18

20585 1:9

25 37:3 84:11 109:6

117:20 159:11

164:5 182:12

196:17

250 159:12

29 1:12

29th 4:8

3

3 98:21

3,600 85:6 86:16,20

87:6 131:18

132:18

3.7 61:4

30 92:4 159:12

32 75:8

33 131:8

36-18 132:5

37 132:18

38 132:19

4

4 15:22 154:6,13

158:16 159:20

163:3

4-pole 84:22

40 145:1 153:8

40.6 114:19 121:5

121:16 122:3,3,21

123:3,13 127:21

131:4,7,20 132:9

133:3 144:11,22

165:19

40.6-2014 120:18

40.6.5.3 121:7

40th 144:2

42 11:12

431.25 154:3 158:18

44 131:12

45 169:20 170:1

171:5

459 84:12

5

5 122:1,8,14 123:19

126:1 128:3,4

151:13,17 158:18

159:11,11

5-second 122:2

5.75 151:18

50 37:3 79:3 80:11

109:6 117:20

155:4 162:12

164:5 182:12

200:4

50,000 135:9

500 196:14

50598 172:18

179:10

555.6 115:12,19

555.60 115:22 116:5

6

6 84:15 89:5 163:3

60 116:21 144:20

153:8 168:4

172:21

61800 173:8

63 168:6,7,9,17

169:8 175:21

176:3

6314(d) 11:13

65 130:18

6E-066 1:7

7

70 171:17

75 37:3 75:16 109:4

109:6 112:17

113:1 115:3

117:20 144:14,16

144:16,20 145:5

159:12 164:5

182:12

78 11:11

8

8,000 87:11

80 172:10 175:17

179:2,17

80-ish 169:12

84 169:7

9

9:03 1:11

9:11 4:2

90 130:18 144:20

169:12

95 194:16 201:15

97 11:12

99 87:18
234 

TRANSCRIPTION CERTIFICATE 

As a professional transcriber, I certify that the 

attached document(s) are, to the best of my abilities, an 

accurate transcription of audio recordings provided to 

the company, given the quality of the provided audio 

recording(s), and that I have no financial or other interest 

in the proceedings to which they pertain. 

TRANSCRIBER