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# g o U.S . DEPARTMEN T O F TRANSPORTATIO N OFFIC E O F HEARING S LITIGATIO NSCHEDULIN GCONFERENC E

I NTH E MATTE ROF : FEDERA L AVIATIO N ADMINISTRATION , —iOO ^



### " D FA ANo . CP10EA000 4 COMPLAINANT , V . FDM S NO . FAA-2011-029 0 EMPIR E FLIGH T ACADEMY ,

RESPONDEN T

Wednesday , Marc h14 , 201 2 Vi a Teleconferenc e Th e above-entitle d matte r cam e o n fo r hearing , pursuan t t o notice , a t 10:3 0 a.m . BEFORE : TH E HONORABL E J.E . SULLIVAN , ADMINISTRATIV E LAWJUDG E



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# HEARIN G DOCKE T

(202 ) 234-443 3 NEA LR

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O nBehal f o f th e Complainant : ZACHAR YM . BERMAN , ESQ . of : Offic e o f th e Regiona l Counsel , AEA- 7 Easter nRegio n Federa l Aviatio nAdministratio n 1 Aviatio nPlaza , Roo m56 1 Jamaica , N Y1143 4 (718 ) 553-325 8

O nBehal f o f th e Respondent : GREGOR YS . WINTON , ES Q of : Th e Aviatio nLa wFir m On e Researc hCour t Suit e 45 0 Rockville , M D 2085 0 {301 } 294-855 0

ALS O PRESENT : Joh nZaremb a Priy a Krishn a



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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 0 7 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G- S

JUDG E SULLIVAN : (10:3 5 a.m. ) We ' r e o nth e recor d i nth e matte r o f Empir e Fligh t Academy . Thi s i s Docke t No . FAA-2011-0290 . Toda yi s Wednesday , Marc h14 , 2012 , an dth e partie s hav e convene d fo r a nexpedite dtelephon e conferenc e prio r t o th e hearin g that' s currentl yse t a t th e en d o f thi s month .

Presen t o nbehal f o f th e FA Ai s th e attorne yo f record , Zachar yM . Berman . Presen t o nbehal f o f th e respondent , Empir e Fligh t Academy , i s it s attorney , Gregor yS . Winton , wh o ha s file d a notic e o f withdrawa l
o f appearance . It' s i nth e court' s fil e .

Als o presen t o nbehal f o f Empir e Fligh t Academyi s Joh nZaremba . And , Mr . Zaremba , coul d yo u identif ywha t relationshi p yo u hav e wit hth e company ?

MR . ZAREMBA : I' mon e o f th e
owners . JUDG ESULLIVAN ; Okay
. Than k yo u

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 Als o presen t a t th e Offic e o f

Hearing s i s Priy a Krishna , a nattorne yinter n wh o i s observin g thi s proceeding s thi s morning . Goo dmorning , everyone .

MR . ZAREMBA : Goo d morning . MR . BERMAN : Goo dmorning . JUDG E SULLIVAN : I calle da n expedite d conference . Than k yo u s o muc hfo r bein g availabl e o nshor t notice . I jus t returne d fro ma trave l an dfoun dth e notic e o f withdrawa l o f appearanc e signe dbyMr . Winto n tha t wa s file d wit hthi s offic e o nFriday , Marc h9 , 2012 , an dw e nee dt o cha t abou t tha t
a littl e bit .

Mr . Winton , i t wa s a concer nt o m e fo r severa l reasons , firs t an dforemos t becaus e a s I rea d th e FA Aregulations , any motio nt o withdra wi s don e bymotio npractic e an d i s subjec t t o revie wbyth e administrativ e court . 

### I naddition , i t appeare dtha t

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 ther e wa s n o certificat e o f servic e o nyou r

client , no r wa s ther e anyindicatio no f wh o woul db e takin g ove r th e case , particularl y give nth e fac t tha t th e hearin g i s set , well , les s tha ntw o week s fro mtoday' s date .

I' ms o delighte d tha t yo u hav e Mr . Zaremb a o nth e phon e wit hyou , henc e som e o f thos e matter s ca nb e take nu p an daddresse d today . So , le t m e tal k wit hyo u first , Mr . Winton , i nterm s o f you r withdrawa l notice . I tak e i t tha t Mr . Zaremb a o r someon e els e fro mEmpir e Fligh t Academywa s serve d notic e o f thi s notic e o f withdrawa l a t th e 'sam e tim e i t wa s serve d upo nthi s cour t an d Mr . Berman ?

MR . WINTON : Correct , an d yo u ar e correc t i ntha t I di dno t pu t tha t o nth e certificat e o f service , bu t I ' v e bee ni n direc t wit hMr . Zaremb a throughout , s o h e doe s hav e a cop yo f tha t notic e o f withdrawal .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . I s i t you r



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2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 understandin g tha t Mr . Zaremb a i s goin g t o b e

actin g a s th e representativ e o f th e compan y fro mher e o nout , o r i s ther e a nattorne yi n th e wing s tha t you'v e bee nworkin g wit hi n term s o f providin g documentatio nan dothe r matter s s o tha t tha t ne wrepresentativ e ca nb e prepare d t o g o t o tria l a t th e en d o f thi s month ? MR . WINTON : Myunderstandin g i s tha t ther e wil l b e n o othe r counse l representin g Empir e Airway s - - I' msorry , Empir e Fligh t Academy . An d th e issu e reall y come s dow nt o a financia l issue , an dthat' s whyMr . Zaremb a ha dinstructe d m e no t t o d o an yadditiona l wor k o nthi s matte r othe r tha n tryin g t o settl e th e case , whic hwe'v e bee n tryin g t o d o fo r th e las t probabl yeigh t weeks , Mr . Berma nan d myself .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : I nterm s o f th e cas e preparatio nfo r trial , a s yo u know , th e cour t ha s recentl ybee nserve dbyth e FA A attorne ywit hth e witnesse s an d exhibi t lis t

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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2 2012 . 3 Th e litigatio norde r tha t wa s 4 issue d quit e som e tim e ag o basicall ygav e som e 5 du e date s t o bot hpartie s t o d o that , an d I 6 hav e no t receive d anymaterial s fro myo u o r 7 you r client . Ca nyo u identif ywha t complianc e 8 you'v e ha ds o fa r wit htha t litigatio n 9 procedura l orde r i nterm s o f exhibi t lis t an d 1 0 al l o f th e exhibit s tha t you'r e plannin g t o 1 1 fil e o r tha t the yar e plannin g t o file ? 1 2 MR . WINTON : That' s correct . 1 3 Ther e ha s no t bee nanysubmissio nbyEmpir e 1 4 Fligh t Academythroug hmysel f o r otherwise . 1 5 I ha d bee naske dbyMr . Zaremba , th e 1 6 representativ e fro mth e company , no t t o spen d 1 7 anytim e o r resources , especiall ylega l fees , 1 8 o nlitigatin g th e cas e fo r defense , becaus e w e 1 9 wer e puttin g al l o f ou r effort s towar d 2 0 settlement . 2 1 Th e financia l disclosur e ha d bee n 2 2 provide d t o th e agenc ythroug hth e Departmen t

(202 ) 234-443 3 

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2 profi t an d los s statemen t ha d bee nprovide d t o 3 th e agency , pe r reques t byMr . Berman . An d 4 th e las t thin g h e wa s waitin g fo r wer e th e ta x 5 returns . I pu t hi mi ndirec t contac t wit hth e 6 CP Atha t ha s bee nretaine do nbehal f o f th e 7 Fligh t Academy , an d thos e conversation s hav e 8 bee ntakin g plac e withou t myinpu t betwee nMr . 9 Berma nan d th e accountant . 1 0 Mr . Zaremb a aske d m e t o d o nothin g 1 1 furthe r wit hregar d t o litigatio nbecause , 1 2 again , tha t woul dcos t mor e mone ytha t th e 1 3 companyjus t doesn' t hav e t o pay . 1 4 JUDG E SULLIVAN : I s you r clien t 1 5 awar e tha t th e statu s o f th e cas e a s o f no wi s 1 6 tha t clien t i s no t i ncomplianc e wit hth e 1 7 litigatio nschedulin g orde r an dpotentiall y 1 8 coul d b e prevente d fro mraisin g anydefens e 1 9 fo r failur e t o compl ywit hth e litigatio n 2 0 procedura l order ? 2 1 MR . WINTON : I explaine dt o him , 2 2 an d w e certainl yca nas k hi mthis , tha t wor k

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1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 neede d t o b e don e i f w e wer e goin g t o g o t o

trial , an d h e tol d m e tha t h e di dno t inten d t o g o t o trial , becaus e tha t wa s jus t no t - - i t wa s no t i nth e budget .

Again , kee p i nmind , thi s cas e wa s originall ybrough t agains t Empir e Airways , anothe r companyi nwhic hh e ha s a nownershi p interest . I t wa s eventuall ywithdrawn . W e di d receiv e attorneys ' fee s - - som e attorneys ' fees . An dthe nth e cas e wa s brough t agains t th e Fligh t Academy .

H e feels , again , tha t i t i s no t th e responsibilit yo f hi s company , bu t h e spen t wel l ove r $10,00 0 o r ten s o f thousand s o f dollar s t o defen d thes e matter s ove r th e las t tw o years , an d there' s jus t n o mor e mone y left . So , h e i s awar e tha t n o defens e ha s bee npu t togethe r fo r th e hearing , an d I don' t kno wi f eithe r h e o r anybod yfro mth e compan yeve nintend s t o sho wu p i f a hearin g doe s tak e place .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Le t m e

the ntur nt o Mr . Berman . Mr . Berman , d o yo u hav e an yobjectio nt o wha t i s a motio nt o withdra wb yMr . Winton ?

MR . BERMAN : No , I' djus t lik e t o

- - bu t I woul dlik e t o correc t somethin g tha t Mr . Winto nsaid . H e indicate d tha t ther e wer e discussion s abou t settlemen t an d I aske dfo r informatio nt o prov e thei r clai mo f inabilit y t o pay , an d on e o f th e thing s I requeste dwa s
recen t ta xreturns .

An d Mr . Winto ngav e m e th e phon e numbe r o f hi s accountant , o f Empir e Fligh t Academy' s accountant , an d I contacte dthi s accountan t an dh e promise dm e h e woul dprovid e ta xreturns , bu t h e didn't . An dthe nI contacte d Mr . Winto nt o tel l hi mthat , an dh e sai d he' d tak e car e o f it , an dI haven' t hear d bac k o nth e ta xreturns .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . MR . BERMAN : Bu t I hav e n o objectio nt o th e withdrawa l o f counsel .

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• 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 1 1 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Than k you . Wha t I ' mgoin g t o d o then , i s this . I' mgoin g t o tur nt o Mr . Zaremb a whil e Mr . Winto ni s o nth e telephone . Le t m e as k yo u i f yo u hav e anyobjectio nt o you r attorney' s motio nt o withdraw?

MR . ZAREMBA : No , I don't . I don' t hav e anymone yt o pa yhim , s o I don' t
wan t hi mt o wor k fo r free. I mean , h e ca ni f he ' d like , bu t I don ' t thin k he ' s goin g t o wor k fo r free.

JUDG E SULLIVAN : An da s understan d i t fro mwha t Mr . Winto nha s said , yo u ar e goin g t o b e th e perso ntha t i s th e poin t perso no r th e representativ e fo r th e companyi f h e i s allowe dt o withdraw .

MR . ZAREMBA : That' s correct . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Ca nyo u identif y fo r u s wha t you r mailin g addres s i s an d wha t you r phon e numbe r i s tha t yo u woul dlik e t o utiliz e a s th e addres s an d phon e numbe r o f record ?



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MR . ZAREMBA : Th e addres s an d

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 phon e numbe r o f recor di s Rout e 109 , Hanga r 3 ,

Republi c Airport , Farmingdale , Ne wYor k 1173 5 , an d th e phon e numbe r i s 631-777-2514 .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dbecaus e I
nee d t o writ e al l o f thi s dow nwhil e you'r e talkin g - - MR . ZAREMBA : Okay .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : - - I' mgoin g t o as k yo u t o repea t tha t an d sa yi t jus t a littl e bi t siower . Yo u los t m e afte r Rout e 109 . MR . ZAREMBA : Okay . It' s Empir e Airways , Rout e 109 , Hanga r 3 , Republi c Airport , Farmingdale , Ne wYor k 11735 .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Coul dyo u spel l th e nam e o f th e cit yfo r me , please ?

MR . ZAREMBA : F-A-R-M-I-N-G-D-A-L

E . JUDG E SULLIVAN : S o I hav e Rout e 109 , Hanga r No . 3 , Republi c Airport , an d it' s Farmingdale , F-A-R-M-I-N-G-A-L-E ?

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 E . MR . ZAREMBA : D-A-L-E . JUDG E SULLIVAN : I' msorry , sir ? MR . ZAREMBA : F-A-R-M-I-N-G-D-A-L

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . MR . ZAREMBA : Th e wor d "farm " an d th e endin g "ing " an d the nth e wor d"dale. "

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Go t it . Than k you . An d th e ZI P code' s 11735 ?

MR . ZAREMBA : That' s correct . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Phon e numbe r 631

- 777-2514 ? MR . ZAREMBA : Tha t i s correct .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : And , Mr . Zaremba , ar e yo u a lawye r o r ar e yo u actin g a s a layperson ? MR . ZAREMBA : Layperson .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : D o yo u hav e an y reques t fro m

Mr . Winto nbefor e he ' s allowe dt o withdra wfo r an ydocument s tha t h e ma yhav e i n hi s possessio ntha t yo u woul dnee dt o continu e representatio no f you r company ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . ZAREMBA : I hav e n o ide a wha t

document s h e has .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Well , le t m e sugges t some . Ther e ar e variou s order s tha t thi s cour t ha s issue d i nthi s cas esinc e i t

wa s assigne d t o th e Offic e o f Hearings . Ther e
ar e variou s othe r document s tha t bot hMr . Winto nan d Mr . Berma nhav e filed . On e woul d conside r tha t t o compris e th e basic s o f th e
cour t file . Typically , i f a nattorne y withdraw s th e attorne ywoul d pas s o nth e document s tha t hav e bee nobtaine d an dkep t i n th e cours e o f litigation . S o hav e yo u receive dfro mMr . Winto nhi s cop yo f th e litigatio nfile ?

MR . ZAREMBA : No , I hav e not . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Mr . Winton , wh y don' t I turn , the nt o you ? I kno wtha t yo u hav e sai dtha t yo u hav e expende dmos t o f you r effor t i ntryin g t o addres s settlemen t matters , bu t yo u ideall ywil l hav e a typ e o f

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 litigatio nfil e whic hcontain s th e order s

issue dbyth e court , motion s tha t hav e bee n file d an d s o fort hsinc e thi s cour t too k jurisdictio no f th e dispute .

I s ther e anyparticula r reaso nwhy yo u woul dno t b e abl e t o transfe r tha t material t o Mr . Zaremb a a s h e take s ove r th e cas e fro myou ?

MR . WINTON : No , there' s n o reaso n a t all . I ca ncertainl yd o that .

But , Judge , i f I may , I thin k th e mos t valuabl e us e o f everybody' s tim e includin g th e court , obviously , woul d be , towar d a resolutio no f thi s case , Mr . Berman , o nbehal f o f th e agency , ha s neve r indicate d lac k o f willingness , shoul d I say , t o tr yt o resolv e th e case. It' s jus t reall ya matte r o f al l o f u s relyin g upo na third-part yCP A wh o i s jus t no wgettin g al l th e ta xrecord s together . Mr . Berma ni s righ t . I di dtel l hi mI woul d loo k int o it . I wa s promise dth e

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 ta xrecord s las t week . I stil l haven' t

receive d them . Mr . Zaremb a ma yb e abl e t o answe r that .

Bu t I think , You r Honor , i f yo u wer e t o gran t a continuanc e I reall yd o believ e tha t al l th e partie s wil l wor k towar d
a resolutio nan dther e wil l b e n o reaso nfo r yo u t o trave l t o Ne wYor k an dspen dth e mone y an d tim e t o litigat e th e case .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . I understan dthat , bu t on e o f th e thing s tha t I' mrequire d t o d o whe na nattorne ymove s t o withdra wi s t o ensur e tha t al l o f th e matter s i nterm s o f servic e o nth e client , substitutio no f th e representative , notic e t o al l partie s o f wha t tha t representative' s addres s an d phon e numbe r migh t be , th e exchang e o f documentatio nfo r litigatio ni f settlemen t i s no t successful , take s - - i s take ncar e o f s o tha t whe nI authoriz e you r withdrawa l yo u ca nleav e an d no t nee d t o eve r com e bac k .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 1 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . WINTON : Right . JUDG E SULLIVAN : So , I' mjus t tryin g t o tak e car e o f thos e basi c thing s no w s o tha t thos e ar e complete dan dresolve d befor e w e j um

p int o th e nex t cours e o f business , whic hcoul db e a motio nbyyou r substitute , essentially , fo r continuance , a discussio no f whethe r o r no t ther e ar e ground s t o d o tha t an d whethe r o r no t there ' s any resource s availabl e throug hthi s offic e t o assis t th e partie s wit hsettlement .

A s yo u know , traditionally , a t leas t i nmypractice , I d o no t participat e a s a settlemen t conferenc e judg e i nth e case s i n whic hI'v e bee nassigne d a s th e tria l court , becaus e I thin k there' s a ninheren t conflict . I don' t thin k tha t th e partie s ca nfreel y discus s settlemen t i f i nfac t I' mgoin g t o b e hearin g evidenc e i f settlemen t fails .

Becaus e w e hav e som e resourc e deprivatio nher e i nthi s office , I don ' t currentl yhav e a full-tim e attorne yassistin g

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2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 m e wh o coul d potentiall yhav e a Chines e Wal l

buil t fo r th e purpose s o f actin g a s a settlemen t conferenc e facilitator . I d o hav e Ms . Krishna , wh o i s servin g a s a voluntee r intern , bu t he r service s ar e limite dbecaus e o f that . So , le t m e ge t bac k t o th e questio no f jus t th e transferenc e o f cas e file . Mr . Winton , whe nd o yo u thin k yo u ca n transfe r you r fil e ove r t o Mr . Zaremba ?

MR . WINTON : I t wil l b e Fe dEx' d
ou t o f myoffic e thi s evenin g t o th e addres s tha t h e jus t gav e yo u o nth e record .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . I s ther e anythin g els e tha t yo u ca nthin k o f tha t yo u ca nd o a s th e attorne ymovin g t o withdra wt o facilitat e bot hth e eas e o f Mr . Zaremba ' s transferenc e int o th e representatio nrol e - -

MR . WINTON : Yes . I woul db e mor e tha nhapp yo na pr o bon o basis . Judge , t o ac t
a s a nAB Rfacilitato r workin g wit hM s . Krishn a fro myou r office . I thin k betwee nth e tw o o f

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1

.9. 9 u s w e ca nge t thes e partie s togethe r an d

resolv e th e cas e a t n o cos t t o th e agency .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : I thin k ther e woul d b e a ninheren t conflic t fo r you , Mr . Winton , t o serv e a s a facilitato r i na settlemen t proceedin g ove r whic hyo u wer e a n advocat e fo r on e o f th e parties . Bu t than k yo u ver ymuc hfo r you r offer .

Yo u ar e welcome , o f course , t o continu e t o consul t an dadvis e you r client , soo nt o b e forme r client , i nanycapacit ytha t th e tw o o f yo u privatel ywan t t o arrange .

MR . WINTON : Right . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Mr . Zaremba , le t
m e tur nnex t t o you . I t sound s lik e Mr . Winto nwil l b e Fe dExin g th e fil e to.yo u s o tha t yo u shoul d hav e i t bytomorrow . I s ther e anythin g els e tha t yo u ca nthin k o f tha t yo u migh t nee d fro mhi ma s th e departin g representativ e i nterm s o f takin g car e o f thi s
case ? MR
. ZAREMBA : No , Idon ' t thin k

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 there' s anythin g els e I woul d need . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Mr . Zaremba , hav e yo u talke d t o Mr . Winto nbefor e th e beginnin g o f thi s conferenc e abou t al l o f th e differen t litigatio ndeadline s tha t hav e bee nse t bythi s cour t fo r th e purpos e o f litigatio ni nth e even t tha t settlemen t fails ?

MR . ZAREMBA : No t entirely , no , I hav e not . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay .

MR . ZAREMBA : I kno wtha t there' s a tria l set . I don' t kno wexactl ywha t th e dat e is , an d I don ' t kno wwha t th e requirement s ar e o nthat , o r th e pre requirement s t o that .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Mr . Berman , le t m e tur nt o you . You'v e indicate dtha t yo u don' t objec t t o Mr . Winto nbein g allowe dt o withdraw . Ther e ha s bee na motio nraise d byMr . Winto no nbehal f
o f hi s clien t fo r a possibl e continuance . Wha t woul d b e th e ramification s t o yo u i f suc h

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 a motio nwa s mad e byMr . Zaremba ? MR . BERMAN : I wouldn' t oppos e it , partl ybecaus e I mysel f hav e a persona l conflict , theoretically , tha t week . I hav e - - assigne d t o thi s trainin g cours e an d theoreticall ygoin g t o hav e somebod yels e i n th e offic e handl e thi s case . Bu t it ' d b e preferabl e if , sinc e I've bee nhandlin g i t th e whol e time , tha t I handl e it , s o I wouldn' t - - fo r tha t reaso nalon e I wouldn' t objec t t o a continuance .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Mr . Berman , havin g hear d th e colloqu yo f th e cour t wit h bot hMr . Winto nan dMr . Zaremba , d o yo u hav e anyothe r question s o r concern s abou t Mr . Winton' s reques t t o withdraw?

MR . BERMAN : No . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . M r . Winton , than k yo u ver ymuc hfo r you r presenc e today . I wil l gran t you r motio nt o withdraw . Yo u ar e herebyn o longe r o f counse l fo r Empir e Fligh t Academy .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 And , sir , you'r e welcom e t o han g

u p th e phon e i f yo u lik e an ddepar t fro mthes e proceedings , o r i f yo u woul d lik e t o sta yo n th e lin e a s a nobserve r yo u ma yd o so . D o yo u hav e a preference ?

MR . WINTON ; I'l l Sta yo nth e lin e i f yo u don' t mind . Than k you , Judge .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : You'r e welcome . Mr . Zaremba , let ' s tur nt o you . Yo u ar e no wth e officia l representativ e o f Empir e Fligh t Academy . Let' s star t wit hwha t yo u don' t quit e know .

O nNovembe r 22 , thi s cour t issue d
a norde r settin g litigatio ndate s an d procedures . Thi s wa s base d o na telephon e conferenc e tha t ha doccurre dth e da ybefore , o nNovembe r 21 , 2011 .

A t tha t tim e you r attorne yan d Mr . Berma nappeare dbytelephon e an dtalke d abou t al l th e differen t litigatio ndate s an d deadline s tha t the ywer e goin g t o compl ywit h i norde r t o b e read yfo r a tria l o r a hearing .

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1 I nthi s particula r orde r tha t wa s 2 issue d o nNovembe r 22 , 2011 , th e tria l date s 3 o r th e hearin g date s wer e se t fo r Marc h27 , 4 201 2 throug hMarc h29 , 2012 , i nth e Ne wYor k 5 Cit yarea . Tha t essentiall yi s 1 3 day s fro m 6 today , beginnin g o nTuesday , Marc h27 , 201 2 7 an d endin g o nThursday, Marc h29 , 2012 . 8 Th e hearin g locatio nitsel f wa s 9 se t a s a cour t orde r o nDecembe r 15 , 2011 , a t 1 0 th e Lon g Islan dCourthous e i nCentra l Islip , 1 1 Ne wYork . 1 2 Accordin g t o th e litigatio norde r 1 3 tha t wa s issue do nNovembe r 22 , 2011 , bot hyo u 1 4 an dMr . Berma n- - an d whe nI sa yyo u I ' m 1 5 talkin g abou t you r client . Empir e Fligh t 1 6 Academy- - wer e suppose dt o hav e serve d eac h 1 7 othe r n o late r tha nMarc h2 , 2012 , wit hth e 1 8 name s an daddresse s o f ever ywitnes s yo u 1 9 intende dt o cal l fo r th e hearing , a shor t 2 0 statemen t o f th e testimonytha t yo u wante dt o 2 1 obtai nfro mth e witnesses , an da cop yo f al l 2 2 th e documentar yexhibit s tha t yo u intende dt o

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 offe r an d tha t wer e premarke daccordin g t o

thi s order .

Mr . Berma nha s don e that . H e ha s 2 6 differen t exhibit s tha t he ' s file dwit hth e court . And , a s I mentione dearlie r i nthi s conference , yo u clien t ha s no t don e that , whic hmean s tha t you'r e i na perilou s positio n t o g o t o hearin g a t th e en do f thi s mont han d thin k tha t you'r e goin g t o b e successful .

I've hear d fro mMr . Winto ntha t h e think s i t migh t b e a goo dide a t o hav e a continuanc e o f thi s case. I've hear dfro mMr . Berma ntha t h e woul dno t oppos e suc ha motio n i f yo u chos e t o mak e it . Woul dyo u lik e t o postpon e th e case ?

MR . ZAREMBA : Yes , I would . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Ho wmuc h tim e d o yo u thin k you'r e goin g t o nee dt o finis hworkin g ou t th e settlemen t negotiation s tha t Mr . Winto nha s starte d o nyou r company' s behalf ? Fro m

wha t I hea r fro mMr . Berma n

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 he' s stil l waitin g t o ge t som e ta xmaterial s

fro myou r accountant , an d reall ythat' s you r responsibilit yt o giv e t o him , no t hi s responsibilit yt o hun t u p fo r you . Any thought s abou t ho wlon g tha t woul d take ?

MR . ZAREMBA : I wa s o nth e phon e wit hth e accountan t yesterday . H e tol d m e h e ha s tw o year s don e an dh e wa s goin g t o contac t Mr . Berma ndirectly , an d I don' t thin k tha t that' s happened .

It' s possibl e a t thi s poin t tha t I
ma yhav e t o emplo yanothe r accountant , becaus e thi s on e ha s bee ndoin g i t no wfo r thre e month s an d i t isn' t don e yet . H e i s a CPA . H e ha s bee nth e accountan t fo r mycompanie s fo r ove r 2 0 years , an dwha t th e issu e i s her e I can' t tel l you . I reall ydon' t know .

However , I ' v e bee ntol d tha t tw o year s ar e done , 200 9 an d'10 , an dhe' s onl y workin g o n'11 . Mr . Berma nsay s h e want s al l thre e years . I f th e tw o year s ar e i nfac t don e I ca nprobabl yge t thos e t o hi m withi na

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 da yo r two . Beyon d tha t I can' t tel l yo u whe n

' 1 1 wil l b e don e becaus e I' mno t a n accountant . I'l l probabl yhav e t o hir e someon e else , an dno wit' s ta xtime , s o it'l l probabl ytak e m e a while .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . MR . ZAREMBA : I f you' d like. You r Honor , I ca ngiv e yo u th e accountant' s nam e an d yo u ca ncontac t hi myoursel f - -

JUDG E SULLIVAN : No , no . MR . ZAREMBA : - - t o verif ywha t I' mtellin g you .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : No , no . I wil l leav e tha t t o yo u t o do . Bu t than k yo u fo r th e offer . Wha t I' mgoin g t o sugges t i s this . I' mgoin g t o as k you , Mr . Zaremba , an dyou , Mr , Berman , t o hav e a privat e phon e conferenc e betwee nno wand , say , i nth e nex t 1 0 day s o r

so . 

### Iwil lgran t th emotio nt o

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9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 continue , an d I' mgoin g t o as k th e tw o o f yo u

t o tal k privatel yabou t a ne wlitigatio n procedura l order , an d essentially , Mr . Zaremba , thi s i s calle d a C R2 6 plannin g conference , wher e yo u mee t privatel ywit hth e opposin g sid e an d tal k abou t al l th e differen t du e date s and deadline s fo r litigation .

Wha t yo u wan t t o d o whe nyo u ge t th e fil e fro mMr . Winto ntomorro wi s tak e a loo k a t th e orde r settin g litigatio ndate s an d procedure s tha t wa s maile dou t t o everybod yo n Novembe r 22 , 2011 .

That' s goin g t o tel l yo u th e differen t litigatio ndate s an d hearin g date s tha t you r attorne yha doriginall ytalke dabou t wit hMr . Berma nan dthe nconfirme d an d discusse d wit hth e cour t las t year , an dthos e ar e th e kind s o f date s tha t I' mgoin g t o b e settin g up agai nfo r yo u an d Mr . Berma ni nth e even t tha t settlemen t i s no t successful .

I nth e meantime , I' mgoin g t o as k th e partie s t o tak e a loo k a t thei r calendars .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7

9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 an d I' m

goin g t o se t up a ne wtelephon e conferenc e s o tha t w e ca ncom e bac k o nth e phon e afte r th e tw o o f yo u hav e talke d privatel yan d reschedul e th e hearin g dates , th e evidentiar yexchang e du e date s an dth e othe r deadline s tha t w e ar e essentiall y postponin g today .

I naddition , w e ca nals o the ntal k abou t a t th e nex t conferenc e whethe r o r no t ther e ar e an yresource s availabl e i nthi s offic e t o assis t th e partie s i nterm s o f a settlement . Righ t no wi t doesn' t loo k promising , bu t I ' mgoin g t o chec k wit ha coupl e differen t peopl e her e an dse e i f there' s anyon e availabl e tha t migh t b e abl e t o assis t you . So , Mr . Berman , turnin g t o yo u first: , an d I' mgoin g t o pul l u p mycalenda r a s I spea k t o you , ho wmuc htim e d o yo u thin k you'r e goin g t o nee d betwee nno wan da secon d telephon e conferenc e t o confe r privatel ywit h Mr . Zaremb a abou t ne wlitigatio ndate s an d

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 deadlines ? MR . BERMAN : Well , I' d als o lik e

t o hav e tim e t o - - I wa s hopin g tha t wit hmor e tim e wit hi t andw e se e th e ta xreturn s mayb e
w e coul d wor k ou t a settlement . S o I' das k til l lik e th e latte r par t o f April .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : No , no , I' m sorry , I didn' t mak e mysel f clear . I' mgoin g t o rese t th e hearin g date , an dthe nth e tw o o f yo u ca nengag e i nsettlemen t negotiation s whil e yo u prepar e fo r tria l a t th e sam e time.

So , I' maskin g yo u ho wmuc htim e you'r e goin g t o nee d t o tal k t o Mr . Zaremb a privatel yabou t ne wlitigatio ndate s befor e w e hav e a secon d telephon e conference ? I though t mayb e i nth e nex t tw o week s you' d b e abl e t o hav e a privat e discussion .

MR . BERMAN : Yes , w e coul d d o - - yes . Well , I'1 1 b e goin g ou t o f tow nMarc h 26 , s o I' d lik e t o tr yt o d o i t bynex t week , Marc h- - th e Thursda yo f th e --o r Thursda yi s th e 22" ^

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . M r .

Zaremba , d o you ' hav e tim e availabl e nex t Thursday , th e 22"^^ , t o hav e a secon dtelephon e coj^i f erence ?

MR . ZAREMBA : That'l l b e fine . You r Honor . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . 

### Mr . Berman , d o yo u hav e anyblackou t tim e o nth e 2 2"^ ^ tha t woul d no t wor k fo r you ?

MR . BERMAN : I ' mfre e th e entir e 

### day . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . Whydon' t

w e pla nfo r 1:3 0 i nth e afternoon ? An dthi s wil l b e fo r on e hour , Easter ntime , an dthi s wil l b e fo r a secon dessentiall ylitigatio n- -

MR . ZAREMBA : You'r e goin g i nan d out . You r Honor .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : I' mS O sorry . MR . ZAREMBA : I thin k yo u sai d 1:'3 0 o nth e 22" ^ fo r on e hour .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : I did , an d I'l l repea t that . I t woul db e Thursday , Marc h22 ,

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 2012 , 1:3 0 t o 2:3 0 i nth e afternoo nEaster n

time , an d wha t we ' 1 1 b e doin g i s we ' 1 1 b e settin g up ne wlitigatio ndate s an d procedures .An d prio r t o Thursday , Marc h22 , 2012 , I expec t Mr . Berma nan dMr . Zaremb a t o tal k privatel ywit heac hothe r bytelephon e t o discus s wha t the ythin k woul d b e a nidea l perio d o f tim e betwee ntoday' s dat e an d whateve r dat e i nth e futur e you'r e lookin g a t t o tryan d ge t al l th e material s fo r settlement , i f settlemen t i s goin g t o b e possible , an d the nt o loo k a t you r calendar s an d say , "I f settlemen t fails , whe nd o I wan t t o finis hmydiscovery ? Whe nd o I wan t t o submi t mywitnes s lis t an dpropose dexhibit s t o g o t o trial ? Whe nd o I wan t t o sho wup a t Islip , Ne wYork , fo r th e hearin g itself?" , an d
s o forth , s o tha t whe nw e reconven e togethe r wit hth e cour t reporte r nex t Thursday , Marc h 22 , 2012 , yo u wil l hav e addresse dmos t o f thos e privatel ywit heac hother .

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# t

9

1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 t o you ?

Honor . Mr . Berman , doe s tha t mak e sens e

MR . BERMAN : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : An dMr . Zaremba ? MR . ZAREMBA : That' s fine , You r

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Mr . Zaremba , d o yo u nee d anyassistanc e fro mthi s cour t t o se t
up a telephon e conferenc e wit hMr . Berman , o r hav e yo u ha dsom e goo dsucces s privatel y makin g phon e call s an dconnectin g wit heac h other ? MR . ZAREMBA : I ca nge t i ntouc h wit hMr . Berman . Tha t won' t b e a problem .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . 'The nwha t I wil l do , respectfully , is , again , I wil l
cance l th e Marc h- -

[interruptio nt o telephon e conferenc e connection ]

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes , let' s se e i f I hav e everybod yo nth e line. I s th e cour t reporte r there ?

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 COUR T REPORTER : Yes , I' mstil l

her e . JUDG E SULLIVAN : An d Mr . Berman ?

MR . BERMAN : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Mr . Zaremba ? MR . ZAREMBA : Yes . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Mr . Winton ? I thin k I los t Mr . Winton .

MR . ZAREMBA : I thin k so , too . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Yes . Sinc e Mr . Winto nha s bee ngrante dawithdrawal , I' m goin g t o procee d withou t him , sinc e I' mjus t finishin g up . I wil l simpl ycance l th e Marc h 27 , 2012 , Marc h28 , 201 2 an d Marc h29 , 201 2 hearin g dates .

I wil l confir mtha t th e partie s
ar e goin g t o reconven e nex t Thursday , Marc h 22 , 2012 , b ytelephone , a t 1:3 0 p.m . Easter n tim e fo r additiona l proceedings , an ddurin g tha t tim e w e wil l b e resettin g th e litigatio n dates . I nth e meantime , I'l l loo k forwar dt o talkin g t o yo u i na week .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 Mr . Berman , startin g wit hyou , i s

ther e anythin g els e tha t w e nee dt o addres s fo r you r clien t today ?

MR . BERMAN : No . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Mr . Zaremba , turnin g t o you , i s ther e anythin g els e tha t w e nee d t o addres s fo r you r clien t today ?

MR . ZAREMBA : No . Th e onl ythin g I woul d lik e t o tel l Mr . Berma ni s tha t I'l l b e i ntouc hwit hhi mbyFrida yvi a telephone , I jus t wan t t o giv e th e accountan t anothe r da y o r tw o t o ge t th e stuf f together , se e i f w e ca nge t tha t don e befor e w e speak .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . And , Mr . Zaremba , jus t s o tha t yo u know , th e prope r protocol i s t o answe r th e court' s questio n firs t an d the nt o as k th e cour t i f yo u ma y addres s th e opposin g side. There' s lot s o f differen t - -

MR . ZAREMBA : Than k you , You r Honor . JUDG ESULLIVAN : 

### You'r ever y

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 welcome . So , Mr . Zaremba , again , i s ther e

anythin g els e tha t I ca nassis t yo u o nbehal f
o f you r clien t today ?

MR . ZAREMBA : No , ther e i s not . JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . An di t appear s tha t you'v e give na messag e t o Mr . Berman . Mr . Berman , di d yo u hea r that ?

MR . BERMAN : Yes , I did , bu t I not e tha t I wil l no t b e i no nFriday . Monda y woul d b e a bette r day .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : Okay . MR . ZAREMBA : That' s fine. JUDG E SULLIVAN : Th e side s communicate d wit heac hothe r withou t th e court' s permission , bu t I'l l gran t that . Mr . Berman , i nth e future , i f yo u hav e a messag e t o giv e t o th e opposin g part yyo u wan t t o as k th e cour t fo r permissio nfirs t befor e yo u spea k t o th e othe r party . Doe s tha t --d o yo u understand ? MR . BERMAN : Yes .

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 0 1 1 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 7 1 8 1 9 2 0 2 1 2 2 MR . ZAREMBA : I thin k w e might'v e

los t - - oh , okay , he' s there .

JUDG E SULLIVAN : I' msorry ? MR . ZAREMBA : I though t w e ha d los t Mr . Berman . Ther e wa s anothe r nois e o n th e phone . JUDG E SULLIVAN : No , Mr . Berma ni s present . S o i t appear s tha t ou r busines s i s complete . I' mgoin g t o than k yo u al l ver y muc hfo r you r presenc e today . Wit hthat , w e ca ng o of f th e record , an dI wis hyo u al l a goo d day . {Whereupon , a t 11:0 9 a.m. , th e foregoin g matte r wa s adjourned. )

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