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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69 Filed 03/05/18 Page 1 of 3 

DAVID C. SHONKA 

Acting General Counsel 

SARAH SCHROEDER, Cal. Bar No. 221528 

ROBERTA TONELLI, Cal. Bar No. 278738 

EVAN ROSE, Cal. Bar No. 253478 

Federal Trade Commission 

901 Market Street, Suite 570 

San Francisco, CA 94103 

sschroeder@ftc.gov, rtonelli@ftc.gov, erose@ftc.gov 

Tel: (415) 848-5100; Fax: (415) 848-5184 

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 

NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA 

OAKLAND DIVISION 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION, 

Plaintiff, 

vs. 

AMERICAN FINANCIAL BENEFITS CENTER, 

a corporation, also d/b/a AFB and AF STUDENT 

SERVICES; 

AMERITECH FINANCIAL, a corporation; 

FINANCIAL EDUCATION BENEFITS 

CENTER, a corporation; and 

BRANDON DEMOND FRERE, individually and 

as an officer of AMERICAN FINANCIAL 

BENEFITS CENTER, AMERITECH 

FINANCIAL, and FINANCIAL EDUCATION 

BENEFITS CENTER,

 Defendants. 

Case No. 4:18-cv-00806-SBA 

RELATED TO: 4:17-cv-04817 SBA 

DECLARATION OF ANN STAHL 

IN SUPPORT OF FEDERAL 

TRADE COMMISSION’S MOTION 

FOR PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION 

DECLARATION OF ANN STAHL IN SUPPORT OF FEDERAL TRADE 

COMMISSION’S MOTION FOR PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION 

4:18-CV-00806-SBA 
   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69 Filed 03/05/18 Page 2 of 3 

 DECLARATION OF ANN STAHL 

1. My name is Ann Stahl. I am an investigator for the Federal Trade Commission. 

As an FTC investigator, my duties include investigating persons or companies suspected of 

engaging in deceptive acts or practices in violation of the Federal Trade Commission Act and 

other laws or rules enforced by the FTC. The following statements are within my personal 

knowledge and if called as a witness I could and would competently testify thereto. 

2. On February 6, 2017, the FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection authorized me to 

tape record telephone conversations, preambles, and other messages during calls placed to or 

received from phone numbers associated with American Financial Benefits Center and related 

entities. 

3. On March 28, 2017, I placed an undercover call to (866) 298-2882. This toll free 

number appeared on a student debt relief mailer. The person I spoke with during the call 

identified the phone number as belonging to “American Financial Benefits Center.” Attached 

hereto as Stahl Attachment A is a true and correct copy of my March 28, 2017 undercover call 

recording to (866) 298-2882. 

4. On March 28, 2017, I placed an undercover call to (888) 415-2658. This toll free 

number appeared on a student debt relief mailer. Attached hereto as Stahl Attachment B is a 

true and correct copy of my March 28, 2017 undercover call recording to (888) 415-2658. 

5. On March 29, 2017, I placed another undercover call to (866) 298-2882. 

Attached hereto as Stahl Attachment C is a true and correct copy of my March 29, 2017 

undercover call recording to (866) 298-2882. 

6. On March 30, 2017, I placed another undercover call to (866) 298-2882. The 

person I spoke with during the call identified the phone number as belonging to “Ameritech 

Financial.” Attached hereto as Stahl Attachment D is a true and correct copy of my March 30, 

2017 undercover call recording to (866) 298-2882. 

7. On April 25, 2017, For The Record, Inc., an independent court reporting 

company, provided transcripts of my March 28, 29, and 30, 2017 undercover calls. I reviewed 

the transcripts for accuracy. 

Stahl Declaration - Page 1 
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8. Attached hereto as Stahl Attachment E is a true and correct transcript of my 

undercover call on March 28, 2017 to (866) 298-2882. 

9. Attached hereto as Stahl Attachment F is a true and correct transcript of my 

undercover call on March 28, 2017 to (888) 415-2658. 

10. Attached hereto as Stahl Attachment G is a true and correct transcript of my 

undercover call on March 29, 2017 to (866) 298-2882. 

11. Attached hereto as Stahl Attachment His a true and correct transcript of my 

undercover call on March 30, 2017 to (866) 298-2882. 

12. I declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct. Executed 

on ):~'1 (tu } 0 , 2017, in Los Angeles, CA. 

' (J I"( 

Ann Stahl 

Stahl Declaration - Page 2 

Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69 Filed 03/05/18 Page 3 of 3 
 

Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-1 Filed 03/05/18 Page 1 of 1 

Stahl Attachment A is in physical form only, and maintained in the case file at the Clerk’s 

office. 

If you are a participant on this case, this Attachment will be served in physical form. 

For information on retrieving this filing directly from the court, please see the court’s main web 

site at http://www.cand.uscourts.gov under Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ). 

This Attachment was not efiled for the following reason: 

Non Graphical/Textual Computer File (audio, video, etc.) on CD or other media. 
 

Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-2 Filed 03/05/18 Page 1 of 1 

Stahl Attachment B is in physical form only, and maintained in the case file at the Clerk’s 

office. 

If you are a participant on this case, this Attachment will be served in physical form. 

For information on retrieving this filing directly from the court, please see the court’s main web 

site at http://www.cand.uscourts.gov under Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ). 

This Attachment was not efiled for the following reason: 

Non Graphical/Textual Computer File (audio, video, etc.) on CD or other media. 
 

Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-4 Filed 03/05/18 Page 1 of 1 

Stahl Attachment D is in physical form only, and maintained in the case file at the Clerk’s 

office. 

If you are a participant on this case, this Attachment will be served in physical form. 

For information on retrieving this filing directly from the court, please see the court’s main web 

site at http://www.cand.uscourts.gov under Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ). 

This Attachment was not efiled for the following reason: 

Non Graphical/Textual Computer File (audio, video, etc.) on CD or other media. 
 

Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-3 Filed 03/05/18 Page 1 of 1 

Stahl Attachment C is in physical form only, and maintained in the case file at the Clerk’s 

office. 

If you are a participant on this case, this Attachment will be served in physical form. 

For information on retrieving this filing directly from the court, please see the court’s main web 

site at http://www.cand.uscourts.gov under Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ). 

This Attachment was not efiled for the following reason: 

Non Graphical/Textual Computer File (audio, video, etc.) on CD or other media. 
Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-5 Filed 03/05/18 Page 1 of 8 

Stahl Attachment E 
1 

Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-5 Filed 03/05/18 Page 2 of 8 

1 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT PROCEEDING 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

MATTER NO. 1723027 

TITLE AMERICAN FINANCIAL BENEFITS CENTER 

DATE RECORDED: MARCH 28, 2017 

TRANSCRIBED: APRIL 25, 2017 

PAGES 1 THROUGH 7 

TELEPHONE CALL TO AMERICAN FINANCIAL BENEFITS CENTER 

AFBC Call-866-298-2882_3-28-17_AS 

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Stahl Attachment E - 1
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-5 Filed 03/05/18 Page 3 of 8 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

I N D E X 

RECORDING: PAGE: 

Telephone Call 4 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment E - 2
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-5 Filed 03/05/18 Page 4 of 8 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

In the Matter of: ) 

American Financial Benefit ) Matter No. 1723027 

Services ) 

------------------------------) 

March 28, 2017 

The following transcript was produced from a 

digital file provided to For The Record, Inc. on April 

6, 2017. 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment E - 3
 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-5 Filed 03/05/18 Page 5 of 8 

P R O C E E D I N G S 

- - - - -

MS. STAHL: My name is Anne Stahl. I’m an 

investigator with the Federal Trade Commission. 

Today’s date is March 28th, 2017. I am preparing to 

call a phone number associated with American Financial 

Benefits Center. The number I will be dialing is 

(866)298-2882. The time is 6:00 p.m. 

TELEPHONE CALL FROM ANN STAHL 

RECORDING: This call may be recorded 

for quality and training purposes. Thank you for 

calling. To speak with an account specialist 

regarding an important notice you’ve received, please 

stay on the line. Thank you for your patience. The 

next available representative will be with you 

shortly. 

RECORDING: Hold for the next available 

agent. 

(On-hold music.) 

RECORDING: You have reached the program 

enrollment department. We’re currently experiencing 

higher than normal call volume. Your call is very 

important to us. Please stay on the line, and the 

next available representative will be with you For The 

Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment E - 4
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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-5 Filed 03/05/18 Page 6 of 8 

shortly. 

(On-hold music.) 

RECORDING: Thank you for holding. Have you 

set up your referral advocate account? Go to 

refer.ameritechfinancial.com and log in or ask your 

representative how to get signed up. 

(On-hold music.) 

RECORDING: All agents are currently 

assisting other customers. If you’d like to reserve 

your place in line and receive a call back from the 

next available agent, please press one now, or 

continue to hold and someone will be with you shortly. 

Thank you. 

(On-hold music.) 

RECORDING: We have easy ways for you to 

share --

REPRESENTATIVE: Hello. 

MS. STAHL: Hello? 

REPRESENTATIVE: Thank you -- the Benefits 

Center. Your call is very important to us. Please 

remain on the line. Your call will be answered 

momentarily. 

(On-hold music.) 

REPRESENTATIVE: Thank you for calling the 

answering service for (inaudible) American Financial For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment E - 5
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-5 Filed 03/05/18 Page 7 of 8 

Benefits Center. This is Emily. How may I help you? 

MS. STAHL: Oh, I’m sorry. I think I have 

the wrong number. What is the name of the company? 

You said it was American --

REPRESENTATIVE: American Financial Benefits 

Center. 

MS. STAHL: Oh, I -- I’m sorry. I 

misdialed, I think. Thank you. 

REPRESENTATIVE: You’re welcome. 

(The call was concluded.) 

(The recording was concluded.) 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment E - 6
 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-5 Filed 03/05/18 Page 8 of 8 

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTIONIST 

I, Sara J. Vance, do hereby certify that the 

foregoing proceedings and/or conversations were 

transcribed by me via CD, videotape, audiotape or 

digital recording, and reduced to typewriting under my 

supervision; that I had no role in the recording of 

this material; and that it has been transcribed to the 

best of my ability given the quality and clarity of 

the recording media. 

I further certify that I am neither counsel 

for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to 

the action in which these proceedings were 

transcribed; and further, that I am not a relative or 

employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the 

parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise 

interested in the outcome of the action. 

DATE: 4/25/17 

SARA J. VANCE, CERT 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment E - 7
Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-6 Filed 03/05/18 Page 1 of 7 

Stahl Attachment F 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-6 Filed 03/05/18 Page 2 of 7 

1 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT PROCEEDING 

 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

 

 

 

MATTER NO. 1723027 

 

TITLE AMERICAN FINANCIAL BENEFITS CENTER 

 

DATE RECORDED: MARCH 28, 2017 

TRANSCRIBED: APRIL 25, 2017 

PAGES 1 THROUGH 6 

 

 

TELEPHONE CALL TO AMERICAN FINANCIAL BENEFITS CENTER

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-6 Filed 03/05/18 Page 3 of 7 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

I N D E X 

RECORDING: PAGE: 

Telephone Call 4 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment F - 2
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-6 Filed 03/05/18 Page 4 of 7 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

In the Matter of: ) 

American Financial Benefit ) Matter No. 1723027 

Services ) 

------------------------------) 

March 28, 2017 

The following transcript was produced from a 

digital file provided to For The Record, Inc. on April 

6, 2017. 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment F - 3
 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-6 Filed 03/05/18 Page 5 of 7 

P R O C E E D I N G S 

- - - - -

MS. STAHL: My name is Ann Stahl. I’m an 

investigator with the Federal Trade Commission. 

Today’s date is March 28th, 2017, and I am preparing 

to call a phone number associated with American 

Financial Benefits Center. The number I will call is 

1-888-415-2658. The time is now 5:49 p.m. 

TELEPHONE CONVERSATION BETWEEN STEVE AND ANN STAHL 

RECORDING: This call may be recorded 

for quality and training purposes. Thank you for 

calling. To speak with an account specialist 

regarding an important notice you’ve received, please 

stay on the line. Thank you for your patience. The 

next available representative will be with you 

shortly. 

RECORDING: Hold for the next available 

agent. 

STEVE: This is Steve. How can I help you? 

MS. STAHL: Yeah, I think -- I’m not sure 

if I have the right number. What -- what is this, 

like --

STEVE: Federal student loan forgiveness. 

MS. STAHL: Oh, no, I’m sorry. I have the For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment F - 4
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-6 Filed 03/05/18 Page 6 of 7 

wrong number. 

STEVE: You don’t have any student loans? 

MS. STAHL: No, I must have misdialed. 

STEVE: That’s a good thing. 

MS. STAHL: Thank you. 

STEVE: People call me all day long in tears 

over their student loan debt. 

MS. STAHL: Oh, dear. 

STEVE: It’s nice -- it’s nice to talk to 

somebody who’s not crying. 

MS. STAHL: Oh. Okay. Well, I’m glad to 

hear that, but I’m sorry to have taken your time. 

Thank --

STEVE: Have a good day. 

MS. STAHL: Thank you. You, too. 

(The call was concluded.) 

(The recording was concluded.) 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment F - 5
 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-6 Filed 03/05/18 Page 7 of 7 

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTIONIST 

I, Sara J. Vance, do hereby certify that the 

foregoing proceedings and/or conversations were 

transcribed by me via CD, videotape, audiotape or 

digital recording, and reduced to typewriting under my 

supervision; that I had no role in the recording of 

this material; and that it has been transcribed to the 

best of my ability given the quality and clarity of 

the recording media. 

I further certify that I am neither counsel 

for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to 

the action in which these proceedings were 

transcribed; and further, that I am not a relative or 

employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the 

parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise 

interested in the outcome of the action. 

DATE: 4/25/17 

SARA J. VANCE, CERT 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment F - 6
Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 1 of 13 

Stahl Attachment G 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 2 of 13 

1 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT PROCEEDING 

 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

 

 

 

MATTER NO. 1723027 

 

TITLE AMERICAN FINANCIAL BENEFITS CENTER 

 

DATE RECORDED: MARCH 29, 2017 

TRANSCRIBED: APRIL 25, 2017 

PAGES 1 THROUGH 12 

 

 

TELEPHONE CALL TO AMERICAN FINANCIAL BENEFITS CENTER 

AFBC Call-866-298-2882_3-29-17_AS 

 

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Stahl Attachment G - 1
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 3 of 13 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

I N D E X 

RECORDING: PAGE: 

Telephone Call 4 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment G - 2
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 4 of 13 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

In the Matter of: ) 

American Financial Benefit ) Matter No. 1723027 

Services ) 

------------------------------) 

March 29, 2017 

The following transcript was produced from a 

digital file provided to For The Record, Inc. on April 

6, 2017. 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment G - 3
 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 5 of 13 

P R O C E E D I N G S 

- - - - -

MS. STAHL: My name is Ann Stahl. I’m an 

investigator with the Federal Trade Commission. 

Today’s date is March 29th, 2017, and I am preparing 

to call American Financial Benefits Center. The 

number I will be dialing is (866)298-2882. The time 

is 4:52 p.m. 

TELEPHONE CONVERSATION BETWEEN SKYLER AND ANN STAHL 

RECORDING: This call may be recorded for 

quality and training purposes. Thank you for calling. 

To speak with an account specialist regarding an 

important notice you’ve received, please stay on the 

line. Thank you for your patience. The next 

available representative will be with you shortly. 

SKYLER: (Inaudible) ask who I’m speaking 

with? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, my name is Joan 

SKYLER: Hi, Joan. How are you? 

MS. STAHL: Oh, I’m fine, thank you. How 

are you? 

SKYLER: I’m doing fantastic; same to you. 

MS. STAHL: Good. 

SKYLER: It looks like you might want some For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment G - 4
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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 6 of 13 

help in getting your student loans -- maybe 

(inaudible). 

MS. STAHL: Yes, that’s what I wanted to 

find out about. 

SKYLER: Okay. Yeah, definitely. Now, did 

you get a phone call, or did you receive a letter in 

the mail? 

MS. STAHL: Actually, it was a letter in the 

mail, but it was a friend of mine who is also 

struggling with his student loans who told me about 

it, and so that’s why --

SKYLER: Okay --

MS. STAHL: -- I’m calling. 

SKYLER: -- is your friend currently 

enrolled in our program already? 

MS. STAHL: She isn’t yet, but she’s --

SKYLER: Okay --

MS. STAHL: -- considering doing it, but 

she’s not sure, but I thought I would check for my own 

situation. 

SKYLER: Yes, most definitely. So on that 

piece of mail there, do you have -- does it have an 

STLN number on it? 

MS. STAHL: Oh, well, it’s not for mine, so 

I don’t -- I told her I wouldn’t say anything about For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 7 of 13 

the -- you know, the letter that she received, but I 

just wanted to find out --

SKYLER: Oh, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay. 

MS. STAHL: That kind of --

SKYLER: So you just looked at her letter 

and got the number to call. 

MS. STAHL: Right. And it sounded like --

SKYLER: Okay. 

MS. STAHL: -- you know, what I was 

interested in, that it could -- it said the program 

could potentially save thousands of dollars and there 

might be --

SKYLER: That’s (inaudible). 

MS. STAHL: -- a possibility of total loan 

forgiveness, so I thought I really should --

SKYLER: Yep. 

MS. STAHL: -- check out what this is about. 

SKYLER: Yeah, of course. Okay, so, let me 

try to get as much information as possible right now. 

Unfortunately, I am getting ready to leave in about 

five minutes, and they just don’t -- don’t allow us to 

work any overtime here. So I’m going to try to get 

some information from you, and then we’ll set up a 

time to reconnect tomorrow. So right now, I’m just 

going to make sure that you’re qualified real quick. For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 8 of 13 

So how much in total --

MS. STAHL: Hello? 

SKYLER: Hello? 

MS. STAHL: Hello? Yes, I think I lost you 

there. 

SKYLER: Oh, okay. 

MS. STAHL: You asked how much in total, 

that’s all I heard. 

SKYLER: Yep, how much in total loan debt do 

you have? 

MS. STAHL: It’s about 40 -- $40,000. 

SKYLER: Perfect. And is that all federal? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, uh-huh. 

SKYLER: Okay. Perfect. And, then, the 

next thing -- I’m sorry, how do you spell your first 

name again, was it --

MS. STAHL: It’s, yeah, Joan, J O A N. 

SKYLER: Joan. And is this your best 

contact number right here, this 310 number? 

MS. STAHL: Yes. 

SKYLER: And what city and state are you 

calling from? 

MS. STAHL: Oh, I’m calling from Los 

Angeles, California. 

SKYLER: Okay, perfect. Yeah, we’re in the For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 9 of 13 

Sacramento area. 

MS. STAHL: Oh, okay. 

SKYLER: Yep. All right, and the next thing 

is going to be -- what is your occupation? 

MS. STAHL: I’m a nurse. 

SKYLER: You are a nurse? Okay, perfect. 

MS. STAHL: Yeah. 

SKYLER: And who are -- are a nurse for a 

hospital or a nonprofit, anything like that? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, well, for the -- for the 

Veterans Affair -- for the government, Veterans 

Affairs Department. 

SKYLER: Perfect. So because of that, you 

actually do qualify for -- it’s called public service 

loans forgiveness. So what that means is the amount 

of time in the program, normally is 25 years, but 

because of the type of work you do, you are actually 

only going to have to be enrolled and complete a tenyear program. So that’s 15 years off. And then after 

that ten years, that’s when the remainder of that 

could be eligible for loan forgiveness. And about how 

much are you making annually? 

MS. STAHL: I make $60,000 approximately 

each year. 

SKYLER: Okay. For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-

8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 10 of 13 

(Heavy background static.) 

SKYLER: Perfect. All righty. So, yeah, 

honestly, I threw all this information into the 

compute real quick, Joan. This (inaudible) right now, 

but I (inaudible) you’re already qualified right now. 

How much are paying per month just on your loans? 

MS. STAHL: It’s about $350 a month. 

SKYLER: Oh, really? Okay. So I’m like 90 

percent sure that we’re going to be able to get that 

probably about a couple hundred bucks lower per month 

than what you’re paying right now. So when would --

when will you be able to reconnect tomorrow so I can 

get you some more information? 

MS. STAHL: Okay. Okay. Oh, when you asked 

about my loan being with government, it’s -- it’s 

MOHELA, the -- is that -- that’s the Department --

yeah, Department of Education, I think, is --

SKYLER: Okay. 

MS. STAHL: So that would be -- I would be 

eligible? 

SKYLER: And that -- that’s your loan 

servicer? 

MS. STAHL: Right -- oh, right, yes. 

SKYLER: It’s a -- but it’s a federal loan, 

correct? For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 -

www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 11 of 13 

MS. STAHL: Yes. 

SKYLER: It’s not a personal loan, okay. 

MS. STAHL: No. 

SKYLER: (Inaudible). 

MS. STAHL: So --

SKYLER: Perfect. Yeah, as long as it’s a 

federal loan, that’s what we’re able to help with. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

SKYLER: So what’s your -- yeah, what’s your 

schedule like tomorrow? I’m here from 8:00 to 5:00. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. Let’s say tomorrow at --

let’s say 10:00? Would that work for you? 

SKYLER: That’s great. That works. 

MS. STAHL: Oh --

SKYLER: That works absolutely perfect. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. Great. Well --

SKYLER: All right, Miss Joan. And my name 

is Skyler. I’m going to give you my direct line. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

SKYLER: And base -- you know, for whatever 

(inaudible) busy, I get you, I’m not going to forget 

about you in case something comes up. You can feel 

free to give me a call as well, so are you ready for 

my phone number? 

MS. STAHL: Yes. For The Record, Inc. (301) 

870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment G - 10
 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 12 of 13 

SKYLER: All right, so it’s going to be 

(916)509-3673. 

MS. STAHL: (916)509-3673. 

SKYLER: Yes, ma’am. If I can just double 

check your phone number, . 

MS. STAHL: Yes, that’s right. 

SKYLER: All right, Miss Joan. Yeah, sorry 

I wasn’t able able to get too much information to you 

right away, but like I said, tomorrow, a few more 

minutes and I’ll have some numbers for you to look 

over, okay? 

MS. STAHL: Okay. Sounds good. 

SKYLER: All right. 

MS. STAHL: Thank --

SKYLER: Well, have a good rest of your 

evening, and I’ll speak with you tomorrow morning. 

MS. STAHL: Thank you. You, too. 

SKYLER: Thank you. Bye-bye. 

MS. STAHL: Bye-bye. 

(The call was concluded.) 

MS. STAHL: This is Ann Stahl. The time is 

now 4:59 p.m., and this concludes the call. 

(The recording was concluded.) 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment G - 11
 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-7 Filed 03/05/18 Page 13 of 13 

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTIONIST 

I, Sara J. Vance, do hereby certify that the 

foregoing proceedings and/or conversations were 

transcribed by me via CD, videotape, audiotape or 

digital recording, and reduced to typewriting under my 

supervision; that I had no role in the recording of 

this material; and that it has been transcribed to the 

best of my ability given the quality and clarity of 

the recording media. 

I further certify that I am neither counsel 

for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to 

the action in which these proceedings were 

transcribed; and further, that I am not a relative or 

employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the 

parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise 

interested in the outcome of the action. 

DATE: 4/25/17 

SARA J. VANCE, CERT 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment G - 12
Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 1 of 32 

Stahl Attachment H 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 2 of 32 

1 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT PROCEEDING 

 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

 

 

 

MATTER NO. 1723027 

 

TITLE AMERICAN FINANCIAL BENEFITS CENTER 

 

DATE RECORDED: MARCH 30, 2017 

TRANSCRIBED: APRIL 25, 2017 

PAGES 1 THROUGH 31 

 

 

TELEPHONE CALL TO AMERICAN FINANCIAL BENEFITS CENTER 

AFBC Call-866-298-2882_3-30-17_AS 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 3 of 32 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

I N D E X 

RECORDING: PAGE: 

Telephone Call 4 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 4 of 32 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

In the Matter of: ) 

American Financial Benefit ) Matter No. 1723027 

Services ) 

------------------------------) 

March 30, 2017 

The following transcript was produced from a 

digital file provided to For The Record, Inc. on April 

6, 2017. 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 5 of 32 

P R O C E E D I N G S 

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MS. STAHL: My name is Ann Stahl. I’m an 

investigator with the Federal Trade Commission. 

Today’s date is March 30th, 2017. I am preparing to 

call American Financial Benefits Center. The number I 

will be dialing is (866)298-2882. The time now is 

1:30 p.m. 

TELEPHONE CALL FROM ANN STAHL 

RECORDING: This call may be recorded 

for quality and training purposes. Thank you for 

calling. To speak with an account specialist 

regarding an important notice you’ve received, please 

stay on the line. Thank you for your patience. The 

next available representative will be with you 

shortly. 

RECORDING: Hold for the next available 

agent. 

HOLLYWOOD: Ameritech Financial. This is 

Hollywood; how can I help you? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, I wanted to find out more 

information. I had gotten a letter that refers to a 

program that you have to save money on my student 

loans. For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 -

www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 6 of 32 

HOLLYWOOD: Yeah. What is the reference 

number on there beginning with the STLN? 

MS. STAHL: I don’t have that with me right 

now, but I just have the number --

HOLLYWOOD: The phone number of there? 

MS. STAHL: -- the phone number to call. 

HOLLYWOOD: Oh, no worries. This is your 

phone number, the 

MS. STAHL: Yes. 

HOLLYWOOD: All right. Let me just put you 

in here. How much in student loans (inaudible)? 

MS. STAHL: I have -- right now I think it’s 

about $40,000 in loans. 

HOLLYWOOD: And then just in case we get 

disconnected, I have your phone already. What is your 

name, ma’am? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, it’s 

HOLLYWOOD: J O A N? 

MS. STAHL: Yes. 

HOLLYWOOD: P A L M E R? 

MS. STAHL: P A L M E R, yes. 

HOLLYWOOD: Okay. And then what state are 

you in? 

MS. STAHL: In California. 

HOLLYWOOD: Oh, I should have known the 310 For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

? 

. 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 7 of 32 

area code. That’s L.A., right? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, that’s right. 

HOLLYWOOD: (Inaudible). Yeah, my name’s 

Hollywood, so --

MS. STAHL: Oh, right. Okay. 

HOLLYWOOD: Yeah. All right. And you said 

like 40,000. How much are you paying a month on that? 

MS. STAHL: It’s $350 each month. 

HOLLYWOOD: Ooh. Okay. I’m just going to 

ask you a few questions and we can put a quote 

together and see if there is any financial benefit for 

you. You said 300 or 300-and-something? 

MS. STAHL: $350. 

HOLLYWOOD: 350. And they’re all ten-year 

loans, they’re all federal and current? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, they are. 

HOLLYWOOD: All right. And do you know who 

your loan servicer is right now? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, it’s MOHELA. 

HOLLYWOOD: MOHELA, okay. How long have you 

been paying on the loan? 

MS. STAHL: It’s been -- I guess it’s been 

about eight years. Yes. 

HOLLYWOOD: And it looks like you haven’t 

even put a dent in it, huh? For The Record, Inc. (301) 

870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 8 of 32 

MS. STAHL: Right, right. 

HOLLYWOOD: All right. Are you married or 

single? 

MS. STAHL: I’m married. 

HOLLYWOOD: And do you guys file joint or 

separate? 

MS. STAHL: We file jointly. 

HOLLYWOOD: Okay. And I’m going to ready 

you a definition here on your family size, just so we 

can get an accurate, you know, quote for you. So 

family size is different from what you claim as 

dependents on your tax return. It’s a figure that you 

provide for your application that basically covers the 

number of people that you support and who live with 

you, not just dependents. And I’ll read you the 

definition here. 

So, family size includes you, your spouse, 

your children, including unborn children who will be 

born during the year for which you state your family 

size if the children will receive the majority of 

their support from you now. It includes other people 

that live with you that receive the majority of their 

support from you, and they will continue to receive 

the support from you for the year that you state your 

family size. And this includes money, gifts, loans, For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 9 of 32 

housing, food, clothes, car, medical and dental care, 

and payment of college costs. 

A couple of things regarding the family 

size, the higher your family size, the lower your 

student loan payment, and the lower your family size, 

the higher your payment’s going to be. And that’s 

just because certain government loan programs take 

into account not just your income but the amount of 

people you’re supporting. 

What’s -- what’s your family size? 

MS. STAHL: It’s three. 

HOLLYWOOD: Three, so is that you, your 

husband, and --

MS. STAHL: Yes, and --

HOLLYWOOD: -- a child, or --

MS. STAHL: My daughter, yes. 

HOLLYWOOD: Okay. And is there anyone else 

you, like, buy presents for or anything like that 

throughout the year? 

MS. STAHL: I can’t quite hear you --

HOLLYWOOD: (Inaudible). 

MS. STAHL: -- I couldn’t hear you. I’m 

sorry. Could you speak up a little? 

HOLLYWOOD: Like -- like anyone that you buy 

presents for that doesn’t live in your house, like For The 

Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 10 of 32 

parents or aunts or uncles or anything like that? 

MS. STAHL: You mean buy, like, birthday 

presents and Christmas presents? 

HOLLYWOOD: Yeah, birthday, Christmas, 

anything like that, because that’s all a part of your 

family size, as well. 

MS. STAHL: Well, yes, I -- I do buy 

presents for my parents and my brother. 

HOLLYWOOD: Okay. So is that (inaudible). 

Okay. And how much do you make a year? 

MS. STAHL: 60,000, approximately. 

HOLLYWOOD: And what about your husband? 

MS. STAHL: He is not working. He receives 

disability benefits. 

HOLLYWOOD: Okay. All right. So I’m going 

to put you on hold real quick, and then I’m going to 

run some numbers and see if there’s a financial 

benefit for you. Okay? 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

HOLLYWOOD: All right. One second. 

(On-hold music.) 

RECORDING: Thank you for holding. Have you 

set up your referral advocate account? Go to 

refer.ameritechfinancial.com and log in, or ask a 

representative how to get signed up. For The Record, Inc. 

(301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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(On-hold music.) 

HOLLYWOOD: Real quick, Joan, what is it you 

do for work? 

MS. STAHL: I’m a nurse. 

HOLLYWOOD: Great. What type of hospital do 

you work at? 

MS. STAHL: It’s a Veterans Affairs 

hospital, VA. 

HOLLYWOOD: Okay, so that’s like -- you work 

for, like, the county or --

MS. STAHL: Well it’s the Veterans Affairs 

Department --

HOLLYWOOD: Right. 

MS. STAHL: -- it’s federal. 

HOLLYWOOD: Okay, yeah. Gotcha, gotcha. 

And then your email address, as well? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, it’s @gmail.com. 

HOLLYWOOD: And , like as in as 

in like , or --

MS. STAHL: Right, for . It’s -- my 

husband and I share. And then , as in . 

HOLLYWOOD: Oh, , gotcha. All right. 

Hold on a sec here. I’ll be right back, okay? 

(On-hold music.) 

RECORDING: Thank you for holding. Did For The 

Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 12 of 32 

you know that over 40 million Americans have 

student loan debt? Billions of people across the 

country could potentially benefit from the 

services you’re receiving today. Make sure you 

go to refer.ameritechfinancial.com, log in to your 

account, and share your experience with your friends 

and family. 

(On-hold music.) 

RECORDING: Thank you for holding. The 

average American household has over $25,000 in student 

loan debt. Most people don’t realize that there are 

government programs available to help. We value your 

referrals and would love to help your friends and 

family navigate some options. Make sure to log in to 

your account at refer.ameritechfinancial.com to share 

posts on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, and email. 

(On-hold music.) 

NEIL: Hi, is this Joan? 

MS. STAHL: Yes. 

NEIL: Hi, Joan. My name is Neil. I’m one 

of the underwriters here. I wanted to get on the 

phone with you to go over the -- the new numbers the 

system came back with after -- after Hollywood put --

put your -- your numbers into the system. Okay? 

MS. STAHL: Okay. For The Record, Inc. (301) 

870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 13 of 32 

NEIL: All right. So I just want to confirm 

as we go through these numbers if anything is 

different than what you know, just let me know so we 

can make sure we’re doing an accurate assessment, 

okay? 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

NEIL: All right, do you have a pen and 

paper handy? 

MS. STAHL: Yes. 

NEIL: Great. Just draw a line down the 

center. We’re going to do a left and a right side 

comparison. And we’ll put a title on each side. On 

the left side, just call it current for your current 

situation. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

NEIL: And then on the right side, just call 

it loan forgiveness. And in your case, the specific 

loan forgiveness program that we’re going to be 

looking to enroll you is what’s called the public 

service loan forgiveness, which hopefully was 

explained to you, is actually the best of all the 

different options out there to help people through the 

federal program. 

MS. STAHL: No, you know --

NEIL: Hollywood didn’t mention that to you? For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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MS. STAHL: -- yeah, I didn’t get much 

information. He asked me some questions, but I -- he 

didn’t explain what kind of programs you have. I know 

that the letter we got talked about a total loan 

forgiveness and zero payments and so forth, and so I 

wanted to --

NEIL: Yeah. 

MS. STAHL: -- find out about --

NEIL: Let me step back and give you a 

little bit of an explanation of these programs. So 

the big picture is that we have a big economic crisis 

with student loans, and the government has stepped in 

to try to deal with that. And that’s what spawned 

these loan forgiveness programs that were created 

close to ten years ago. 

We’re at almost $1.4 trillion in student 

loan debt. The average payment is around $400, and 

people are going into default and delinquency at 

record rates. So you remember years ago when the 

government had to bail out all the financial 

institutions, after the whole sub-prime mortgage 

industry blew up in our face? 

MS. STAHL: Yes. 

NEIL: So they see the writing on the walls 

for another financial crisis because student loans are For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 15 of 32 

second only to home mortgages as far as all the debt 

that has accumulated. So it really is a financial 

crisis, and they realize the way things are going, 

it’s going to blow up in our face as well. And it’s 

opposed to bailing out financial institutions, the 

people who really need the help in these particular 

cases are the loan borrowers. They’re coming out of 

school and paying much higher than they can afford, 

not usually getting the kind of incomes that they 

expected to be able to pay it off on the other end. 

So the result is the government created 

programs to let you get your payment adjusted based on 

your income and how many people you support, and at 

the same time, after making a certain number of 

qualified payments, being able to have any balance 

remaining discharged through the federal government, 

where you don’t have to pay anymore. 

And in talking about the public service loan 

forgiveness program, out of the handful of ones that 

are out there, it is the best of all the programs 

because it’s designed to help people who are working 

in nonprofit or government jobs. And what makes it 

better than the other loan forgiveness programs is the 

length of the term. While the payments are calculated 

the same way as if you had a job in the private For The 

Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 16 of 32 

sector, the amount of years you have to pay is 

significantly shortened. 

Do you plan on staying in a government or 

nonprofit job over the next ten years? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, uh-huh. 

NEIL: Okay, good. So it’s a ten-year 

payout. That’s the reason I ask. The qualifications 

are that you work at least 30 hours a week in a 

government or nonprofit job and that -- that you make 

120 qualified monthly payments, which is a ten-year --

a ten-year term. 

So now I’m going to go over the numbers that 

came back and we’re going to compare it to what you’re 

doing and show you what kind of savings are going to 

be there for you. Okay? 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

NEIL: All right. So let’s start on the 

left side. And, again, if any of these numbers are 

different than what you understand, just stop me so it 

can be accurate. So we’re going to put your balance 

down on the left side first. You’re going to write 

$40,000. While it might not be exact, that’s close 

enough, if that’s pretty close to your -- your loan 

balance, okay? 

MS. STAHL: Yes. For The Record, Inc. (301) 

870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 17 of 32 

NEIL: And then below that, I was told here 

that you have a payment of $350. 

MS. STAHL: Right. 

NEIL: And have you been making that payment 

regularly? 

MS. STAHL: Yes. 

NEIL: Okay, great. And do you have any 

idea how many years you have left to pay? I have a 

rough estimate here, but I wonder if you have any 

information about that. 

MS. STAHL: I’m not sure really, yeah. 

NEIL: Yeah, it looks like you probably have 

about 14 years or so left to pay if you were to 

continue to pay at that right. 

MS. STAHL: Oh. 

NEIL: We’ll find out more specifically 

later, but the reality is by the time you’re done 

making those payments, you’re going to be -- and you 

can write this number down -- paying close to 60,000, 

the actual number here is $58,800. And annually, that 

would be costing you $4,200 per year. So write those 

numbers down on the left so we can compare it. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

NEIL: Okay. Now -- oh, can you hold on one 

quick sec? For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 -

www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 18 of 32 

MS. STAHL: Yeah. 

NEIL: I just want to confirm one -- one 

piece of info. Thank you. I’ll just place you on 

hold for a moment. 

(On-hold music.) 

RECORDING: Thank you for holding. Did you 

know that for each referral we receive from you and 

help enrolled, you will receive a $25 credit on your 

Kinko rewards card? We have easy ways for you to 

share using your referral advocate account at 

refer.ameritechfinancial.com. Terms and conditions 

may apply. 

NEIL: Okay. I’m back. 

MS. STAHL: Yes. 

NEIL: Thanks for holding. Okay, so based 

on your income and your family size, here’s what you 

qualify for on the right side. And we’ll put this 

down. The first number that I want you to write down 

is going to be $287. And that’s going to be for the 

first five months. Then your payment is going to drop 

down after that, and just so you know, those first 

five -- first five months of payments go toward our 

costs that never recur after the initial time we do it 

--

MS. STAHL: I’m sorry, I couldn’t quite hear For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 19 of 32 

-- they go toward costs and -- and what do they go 

toward? 

NEIL: Oh, to a cost that never recurs. 

MS. STAHL: Oh, I see. 

NEIL: So it’s these first five months 

handle costs that you’ll never have to deal with, 

things like membership, products and services, and --

and document preparation. After that, it’s going to 

drop down to a total of $249.56. And that’s going to 

be your ongoing payment. That payment is broken up in 

two ways. $99 is going to draft to Ameritech, and 

then the remaining $150.56 is going to be your new 

reduced loan payment to the loan servicer under these 

federal guidelines. 

Now, each year, we will reach out to you to 

recertify your income and family size because those 

are the factors that help determine your payment and 

help make sure that it stays affordable for you. But 

if we consider your current situation and we project 

it out over the next ten years, you’re going to end up 

spending a total of $29,947 as opposed to the $58,000 

that you’re on track to pay, giving you a net savings 

-- and you can write this number down on the right 

side -- saving $28,852. So circle that and write 

“saved.” For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 -

www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 20 of 32 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

NEIL: And two other things to keep in mind. 

The first payment wouldn’t need to be until 30 days 

from now, so we could set it up for the end of April. 

And the way the payments get handled for the -- is 

through an autodraft from a checking or a savings 

account, for all of it except for the portion that’s 

going to go to your loan servicer. 

Once that starts, after month number six, 

starting month number six, you’ll have gotten a new 

bill for that $150.56, and you can set up that payment 

however you’re doing it now. If it’s autopay, you can 

keep it that way. If you want to send in a check, 

they have multiple options. 

So, like I said, you’d be saving $28,852 

total. Your annual savings is going to be a little 

over 1,200, about $100 a month in savings. So based 

on those new numbers and the terms that I laid out for 

you, does that sound like something that can work? 

MS. STAHL: Well, it sounds very good. I’m 

-- I’m a little confused from the letter. My husband 

and I had seen it, assumed it was with the government, 

the student loan department. Are you with the 

government, a government agency, or --

NEIL: No. Neither our company nor For The 

Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 21 of 32 

MOHELA -- that’s your loan servicer -- none of those 

are -- are -- none of our companies are the federal 

government. MOHELA, the people that you’ve been 

paying the $350 to currently --

MS. STAHL: Right. 

NEIL: -- is a private company that’s a 

middleman bill collector for the government. And the 

reason our company (inaudible) are a handful of 

companies like MOHELA that have been hired by the 

federal government to collect money on their behalf 

are private companies that make their money based on 

collections. So, in other words, the more they make -

- the more they have to pay, the more they collect. 

Many of these loan servicers are actually in 

legal deals -- legal lawsuits with the government 

because they’ve been less than helpful to many 

borrowers because unfortunately the more they help the 

borrower, the less money they make. So there’s a 

conflict of interest built in on the loan servicer, 

which leaves the borrower without an advocate and many 

times very confused about their loan, after they get 

this information. There’s a whole bunch of negative 

things that if you go Google like lawsuits against 

federal student loan servicers, you’ll -- you’ll have 

a ton of stuff to see as to why they do that and -- For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 22 of 32 

and what they’re being charged for. 

But the bottom line is we’re here to be your 

advocate and to make sure that we scour all the 

government programs to get you the best opportunity, 

the same way a tax preparer would work with you on 

your taxes. While you technically can do it on your 

own, most people, it’s too confusing. And in these 

particular cases, there’s annual deadlines and annual 

recertifications involved. 

And the Department of Education statistics 

are actually pretty grim. They show the people who 

tried to do these programs on their own. By the time 

the second year comes around, only 13 percent of 

people trying to do it on their own are still in it. 

They’ve been kicked out because they either missed a 

deadline, didn’t fill out paperwork right, or the loan 

servicer has some -- some kind of an excuse to say 

something wasn’t done quite right. 

So that’s what we do. And each year, we’ll 

recertify your income and family size. You’re under 

no obligation to stay in the program, only as long as 

you feel like it’s helpful for you, so it’s an at-will 

program. So by enrolling with this program, you’re 

not locking yourself not anything in the future if you 

ever wanted to change your situation or go back to For The 

Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 23 of 32 

what you’re currently doing right now. 

MS. STAHL: I see. So what is -- so what --

what is your -- what is your company’s name? 

NEIL: Our company is called Ameritech 

Financial. 

MS. STAHL: I see. 

NEIL: And, actually, there’s a website if 

you go to -- called The College Investor. It’s the 

primary website out there. It’s not affiliated with 

us. It’s really the number one place that student 

loan borrowers go to deal with the confusion and 

frustration of student loans. As you probably can 

imagine, you’re not alone and there’s people trying to 

deal with their student loans and then people have a 

lot of confusion. And the website gets about 400,000 

unique visitors. 

If you’re in front of a computer, you 

probably want to check it out because that company, 

that website, I should say, has scoured all of the 

different companies that are in -- in this and helping 

people with student loans, and they’ve particularly 

chosen us the company that refer people to and talk 

about on their website as the best of the companies 

out there and using the best practices and following 

all the compliance rules that are necessary to make For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 24 of 32 

sure that everything’s done right. 

MS. STAHL: I see. And would -- then would 

your company, the Ameritech, would that -- would you 

own my loan then? 

NEIL: No, we don’t buy or sell loans. Like 

I said before, you’d be getting a new bill from 

MOHELA. You’d still be making payments to MOHELA. 

The Department of Education is still who owns the 

loan. MOHELA is still the middleman who will make --

who will get -- who will do collections. The basic 

difference for you is instead of spending $350 a month 

with MOHELA, you can be spending approximately $150 a 

month. 

MS. STAHL: I see. And if I do this, would 

I need to contact MOHELA? 

NEIL: No, we take care of all that for you. 

Our goal is to be a turnkey solution so that after you 

get us the couple of pieces of paperwork that we need, 

we take care of everything for you; we file the 

documents with the Department of Education and the 

loan servicers; and we stay in regular contact to make 

sure that the whole working process and the work flow 

is all handled right. And -- and we’re here if you 

have any questions, and whether it’s questions about 

your loan or questions about the loan servicer, what’s For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 25 of 32 

going on with it, we’re here seven days a week to be 

able to help you. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

NEIL: (Inaudible). 

MS. STAHL: And how long would it take for 

you to get this going for me if we decide to do this? 

NEIL: Yeah, we can -- I’ll put you back on 

the phone with Hollywood. There’s a few pieces of 

information he’s going to need so that he can get the 

application filled out, and then he’ll email you the 

document and you’ll be able to review it. And he’ll 

show you how to electric -- electronically sign it. 

And then there’s a short verification call that’s done 

at the end. So the process shouldn’t take very long. 

Are you on a lunch break or on your way back to work 

or anything right now? 

MS. STAHL: No. I’m -- I’m okay to talk but 

I wondered, so -- so in addition just to filling out 

the forms with him, is there anything else, though, 

that I would need to do? 

NEIL: You won’t need to do it today, but 

there’s a few pieces of documentation, like pay stubs 

and -- and tax return type of information. And then, 

like I said, because we do an electronic funds 

transfer each month, we’ll need to get a copy of a For The 

Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 26 of 32 

voided check, if you use checks. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. And has your company --

NEIL: Again, that’s not today. 

MS. STAHL: Uh-huh. 

NEIL: Those are -- those are documents you 

can get to us in the next week or two. 

MS. STAHL: Oh, okay. And how long has your 

company been in business? 

NEIL: About five years. 

MS. STAHL: Have you been able to help a lot 

of people to -- to do this? 

NEIL: Oh, quite -- quite a lot. In fact, 

before I got moved to the underwriting position, I had 

the job that Hollywood has, and I personally have 

enrolled close to a thousand people on my own in the 

two-year period. And our company has enrolled close 

to 30,000 people over the time since it first started 

helping people. 

MS. STAHL: And they’ve been able to get 

this kind of loan forgiveness or other kinds --

NEIL: Oh, yes. Some people -- some people 

even more. It’s just -- it really varies. 

Everybody’s situation is different. People who have a 

higher balance will get more loan forgiveness because 

as maybe he explained or didn’t, your -- now your For The 

Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 27 of 32 

payments are not based on your balance or any 

particular interest rate. The payments, once you 

enter these programs, you’re exiting a typical loan 

repayment that is based on your interest rate and the 

loan balance. 

Here, your payments are calculated in a 

totally separate way, not related to interest. It’s 

about what you can afford based on your income and 

your family size, and then in terms of how long you 

make payments until you’re done is determined on which 

program you’re in. Again, if you’re in the public 

service program, it’s just ten years and then you’re 

done. Any other situation, it’s a 20 to 25-year 

payment term. 

So, like in your case, if you weren’t in 

nonprofit, it would be kind of a wash as to would this 

program be able to help you or not. But because you 

are in the nonprofit, then it kind of becomes a nobrainer as I look at the file and see how much you 

have to save here of close to $29,000. 

MS. STAHL: I see. Okay. Well, thank you. 

NEIL: Yeah, so do you have any other 

questions before I’ll put Hollywood back on the line 

to get the other couple of pieces of info so he can 

email you the document? For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-

8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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MS. STAHL: Okay, well, I -- I think I 

probably -- I just want to go over this with my 

husband and make sure that this is going to be okay. 

It sounds like a wonderful opportunity, so I’ll -- I 

think I better talk with him first, and then I think I 

would like to sign up. 

NEIL: Okay. Well, if you can go through 

the process with Hollywood and then get the documents, 

then you can review it all with your husband if you’d 

like. And that way you’ll have everything in front of 

you to see, but, you know, however you want to handle 

it is fine. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. Well, I guess -- yeah, I 

think probably it would be best and I’d get -- I guess 

I’ll need to get together the information that I need 

to gather in order to provide the information for the 

application. Should I call Hollywood back, or --

NEIL: Yeah, we’ll make an appointment to do 

that. I’ll also have him email you the link to that 

website with the College Investor that I told you 

about so that you can -- you and your husband can both 

see it and, you know, just outside major website that 

picked us out of all the companies in the whole 

country to recommend working with, so that should give 

him a good feeling. For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 

- www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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When are you going to be able to meet with 

your husband so I can have (inaudible) --

MS. STAHL: Well, tonight’s --

NEIL: -- follow up with Hollywood. 

MS. STAHL: -- right, tonight, so I could 

speak with him further tomorrow, then? 

NEIL: Great. I’m going to put him back on 

the phone. He’ll have his -- his calendar for 

tomorrow. You guys can find the right time that works 

for both of you, and then we’ll get you all -- all 

taken care of hopefully. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. Great. Thank you. 

NEIL: Okay, Joan. Hang tight one moment, 

all right? 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

(On-hold music.) 

RECORDING: Thank you for holding. Did you 

know that for each referral we receive from you and 

help enrolled you will receive a $25 credit on your 

Kinko rewards card? We have easy ways for you to 

share using your referral advocate account at 

refer.ameritechfinancial.com. Terms and conditions 

may apply. 

(On-hold music.) 

HOLLYWOOD: Hi, Joan? This is Hollywood. For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 30 of 32 

MS. STAHL: Hi, yes. 

REPRESENTATIVE: How you doing? 

MS. STAHL: Good. Thank you. 

REPRESENTATIVE: (Inaudible) a good thing? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, it --

REPRESENTATIVE: I know that he said you 

wanted to talk with your husband some. 

MS. STAHL: That’s right. I better, just 

before I sign up fully, I better get -- get his okay. 

REPRESENTATIVE: Right, yeah, because the --

the full signup doesn’t come until like the end of the 

application process. I mean, if you wanted to just 

get, you know, the majority of this taken care of so 

that when we call -- when we talk tomorrow it’s not a 

long process there. 

MS. STAHL: Okay, well, I think -- yeah, I 

don’t have a lot more time. I have to get going 

pretty soon for work, so I think --

REPRESENTATIVE: Okay. 

MS. STAHL: -- yeah. 

REPRESENTATIVE: We can set it up for 

tomorrow, then. 

MS. STAHL: Probably be better to -- to do 

that tomorrow. 

REPRESENTATIVE: Okay. What is a good time For 

The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 31 of 32 

for you tomorrow? 

MS. STAHL: Let’s say 10:00 tomorrow would 

be good. 

REPRESENTATIVE: I was about to ask, what 

time zone you’re in, but you’re in L.A., so, yeah, 

I’ll be in at 8:00. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. 

REPRESENTATIVE: So, yeah, 10:00 works for 

me. Yeah, because then you’ll -- like he was saying, 

you’ll save about $28,000, like. All right, so I have 

you in there for 10:00 tomorrow, and I will just give 

you a new call then (inaudible) 310 number, that’s a 

good number to call you from? 

MS. STAHL: Yes, uh-huh. 

REPRESENTATIVE: Okay. All right, I’ll talk 

to you tomorrow, Joan. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. Thank you. 

REPRESENTATIVE: No problem. 

MS. STAHL: Okay. Bye-bye. 

REPRESENTATIVE: Bye. 

(The call was concluded.) 

MS. STAHL: This is Ann Stahl. The time is 

now 2:02 p.m. I just concluded a call with 

representatives of the company that they identified as 

Ameritech, and this concludes the recording. For The 

Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment H - 30
 

 

 

 

 

 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 69-8 Filed 03/05/18 Page 32 of 32 

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTIONIST 

I, Sara J. Vance, do hereby certify that the 

foregoing proceedings and/or conversations were 

transcribed by me via CD, videotape, audiotape or 

digital recording, and reduced to typewriting under my 

supervision; that I had no role in the recording of 

this material; and that it has been transcribed to the 

best of my ability given the quality and clarity of 

the recording media. 

I further certify that I am neither counsel 

for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to 

the action in which these proceedings were 

transcribed; and further, that I am not a relative or 

employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the 

parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise 

interested in the outcome of the action. 

DATE: 4/25/17 

SARA J. VANCE, CERT 

For The Record, Inc. (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net -

(800) 921-5555 

Stahl Attachment H - 31