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1 OFFICIAL TRANSCRIPT PROCEEDING 

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FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

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MATTER NO. 1723027 

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TITLE AMERICAN FINANCIAL BENEFITS CENTER 

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DATE RECORDED: DATE UNKNOWN 

8 TRANSCRIBED: SEPTEMBER 6, 2018 

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24 For The Record, Inc. 

25 (301) 870-8025 - www.ftrinc.net - (800) 921-5555 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 3 of 16 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

I N D E X 

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RECORDING: PAGE: 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 4 of 16 

FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION 

In the Matter of: ) 

American Financial Benefits ) Matter No. 1723027 

Center ) 

------------------------------) 

Date Unknown 

The following transcript was produced from a 

digital file provided to For The Record, Inc. on 

September 5, 2018. 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 5 of 16 

P R O C E E D I N G S 

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JACKIE: Thank you for calling in to 

customer service. This is Jackie speaking. How can I 

help you? 

: Oh, hi, Jackie. My name is 

. I am currently a member of AFBC and I 

wanted to cancel my membership and see how I would go 

about doing that. 

JACKIE: Okay, , not a problem. I 

can go ahead and put you through to one of our 

supervisors that might be able to assist you. Give me 

just a moment. 

(Pause.) 

PAUL: Hello, Jackie. 

JACKIE: Hey, Paul. How are you doing? 

PAUL: Doing pretty good. How about you? 

JACKIE: Good. I’m glad it’s Friday because 

I’m exhausted. 

PAUL: Me, too. 

JACKIE: I think that’s the general 

consensus for everyone. It’s like, oh, God, we made 

it. 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 6 of 16 

PAUL: Yes, we’re almost there. 

JACKIE: Okay. Who is it that I have here? 

. Did she come up for you? 

PAUL: , yes. 

JACKIE: So she is wanting to stick with her 

servicer to handle her account. She just doesn’t 

really see a benefit in working with us any longer, 

especially with everything that we have going on --

PAUL: Mmm. 

JACKIE: -- (inaudible) account. She was a 

two (inaudible) account anyway, so this really isn’t, 

I mean, too much of a loss here. We quoted here $10 

and then once we got her tax return back, her 

(inaudible) is actually $90,000 and her paystubs are 

91. And so her lowest IDR is around $747. 

PAUL: Is she married? 

JACKIE: Married, filing --

PAUL: Ahhh --

JACKIE: -- I thought it was married joint. 

PAUL: Single. 

JACKIE: I might be wrong. No, single. 

PAUL: She should have direct loans. Oh, my 

God, we never got her into an IDR. 

JACKIE: Nope. Surprise. 

PAUL: No wonder. No wonder. 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 7 of 16 

JACKIE: That was my thinking, too, when I 

first saw the file. I’m like, ohh, that’s probably 

not a big deal, and then it’s like -- I’m like, oh, 

okay, well --

PAUL: Oh, my God. She’s about out of 

forbearance. I mean, actually (inaudible) forbearance 

(inaudible) almost. Wow. That’s crazy. Let’s check 

out -- well, so she’s never been on an income-driven 

repayment, so -- she should be on a standard. 

Let’s see. 

It looks like she got more debt, too. She 

has 157,000 now. 

Loan originated. 

Deferred. 

Oh, yeah, she doesn’t -- yeah, the payments 

are deferred. So -- all right (inaudible) 10 to 3 

(inaudible) she was paying out-of-pocket over current 

cost (inaudible). 

And let’s see. 

Yeah, the payments are going to be 498. 

Okay, I’m ready. 

JACKIE: Okay. I will get over to 

you in three, two, one. 

PAUL: Hi, ? 

: Yes. 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 8 of 16 

PAUL: Hi, my name is Paul. I’m a 

supervisor here at AFBC. How are you doing today? 

: I’m good. How are you, 

Paul? 

PAUL: Oh, I’m doing great. Thank you for 

asking. So --

: Good. 

PAUL: -- how can I help you today? 

: I was actually just calling 

to cancel my membership with you. I’ve been dealing 

with my school and provider directly, so I don’t think 

I need to do that through you guys anymore. 

PAUL: Okay. I mean, our services are atwill. You can always opt out of them. My main 

concern for you is that working with your servicer 

because they -- their interests are quite opposite 

from what your interests are. They’re -- they collect 

-- I mean, they profit off of every dollar that you 

send them. So they are going to try to get you into 

the highest payment where they can profit off of you. 

Our whole goal is to keep you not only on 

track for loan forgiveness, but on the lowest incomedriven repayment that you do qualify for. Now, I know 

that we told you, I think, that your payment would be 

747 if you -- if you remain on the income-based 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 9 of 16 

repayment. But I actually am looking at here, you --

you can move to a different one, a lower one, as long 

as you’re -- I mean, as long as you’re not married, 

then the payment would only be 498 per month. And 

that would still qualify --

: What pro --

PAUL: Go ahead. 

: What program is that? Is 

that -- that’s not income-driven? What program is 

that? 

PAUL: No, it is, it is. They’re all 

income-driven repayments because those are -- you need 

income-driven payments to achieve total loan 

forgiveness, and it’s not based on how much you pay. 

It’s based on you making the income-driven payments on 

time each month and renewing them each year. 

: Mm-hmm. 

PAUL: Now, you -- I’ve noticed that you 

either went back to school or are you currently in 

school right now? 

: No. I just graduated last 

weekend --

PAUL: Oh. 

: -- from school. So I’m 

kind of moving into that six-month period. 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 10 of 16 

PAUL: I see. 

: But I’ve been -- yeah, I’ve 

been talking to my loan provider. So I get what you 

guys offer. I’m just a little skeptical for several 

reasons now, because after talking to my loan 

provider, they don’t have any communication of talking 

to you guys whatsoever. 

I was told that all of the fees that I’d be 

paying you would go towards my loan and they have 

gotten zero money from you. Then the loan amount you 

just -- or the monthly payment you just told me --

PAUL: Mm-hmm. 

: -- is not the one that 

Nicole Silvestri told me several months ago, nor the 

one that the person before that told me. So it seems 

like it keeps changing. 

So to be honest, I know that, you know, 

you’re going to give me the spiel of how you guys can 

help me and I really appreciate that, but I think, at 

this point, I’m just more comfortable going through 

Nelnet because I’m real skeptical of what’s going on 

with you guys at the moment. 

PAUL: Okay. Yeah, I mean, well, I 

completely understand. But, I mean, you’re working 

with a company who profits off of your payments. So 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 11 of 16 

that’s really the worst thing you could do. I mean, 

whether you go with us or whether you go with other 

professional services or you do it yourself, working 

with a company who profits off of your payments, I 

mean, they’re going to set you up to profit off of 

you. That’s -- they’re a multi-million-dollar 

company. 

And I’ll be honest with you that the -- a 

lot of loan servicers like Nelnet are in a lot of 

legal trouble because, I mean, the allegations show 

that loan servicers, because they’re so profit-driven, 

that they, you know, mis-educate and mis-inform 

borrowers like you to get them in the highest payments 

that they can profit off of you. That’s why --

: And I app -- and I 

appreciate that info, but, quite honestly, you guys 

are in the middle of the same thing. So I’m not 

really seeing the difference at this point in time. 

So if you could really do me a favor, Paul --

PAUL: Mm-hmm. 

: -- and just cancel my 

membership and I will -- whatever you need me to do to 

do that. I would really appreciate it --

PAUL: Yeah. 

: -- if we could just do that 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 12 of 16 

today. 

PAUL: Yeah, I can certainly do that. But 

keep in mind, too, you’re not getting all the 

information, , and the letter that you 

received does not mention the lawsuit that we filed 

against the FTC ten months ago, which they’ve refused 

to defend. And that case remains open in the Northern 

District of California. So you are not getting all 

the information. And I understand you obviously have 

trust issues at this point. 

Had we got you into an income-driven 

repayment, you would be earning those credits towards 

achieving loan forgiveness, but I see that we’ve, you 

know, to this point, didn’t get all the necessary 

documents. But, again, you know, you’re working 

directly with a company who profits off of your 

payments. I mean, that’s the reason why a lot of 

people are in default right now. But these are the 

risks --

: Mm-hmm. 

PAUL: -- that you are taking. They are 

your loans and, you know, this is your decision. But 

I hope you understand that you’re making a decision 

not getting all the information and, you know, 

really you’re canceling services for a company that 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 13 of 16 

advocates --

: I’m not --

PAUL: 

PAUL: 

-- versus a company that --

: And, Paul, I get it. I --

-- profits off of you, so --

: I get it, but I’m not 

making my decision just solely based on the lawsuit. 

I’m making my decision based on several 

inconsistencies that have happened every time I talk 

to somebody new at your organization. 

PAUL: Okay, well --

: When I call Nelnet, they’re 

consistent every single time. 

PAUL: They are? Right. That’s what they 

want you to think, but, again, you are --

: Okay, okay, enough --

PAUL: -- you are putting your loans in --

: -- enough of this. Can --

PAUL: Yeah, yeah. 

: That’s fine. 

PAUL: I’ll cancel your account. 

: You’ve made it perfectly 

clear --

PAUL: I’ll cancel your account, 

: -- and --

. 

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PAUL: Okay. 

: -- if you could please do 

that and whatever you need from me and I would like to 

get an email confirmation, I would really appreciate 

that. 

PAUL: So our -- I will cancel your account 

today. Our billing and processing will be notified to 

cease all activity on your account. You should 

receive an email confirmation of the cancellation 

within 24 hours. Once I close your case, you will be 

emailed the case number for your records. 

I want to let you know that by canceling 

your file, we will no longer submit or process 

anything further towards your loans. If a 

consolidation repayment plan was submitted, it is up 

to you to handle your accounts on your own. 

And then before I let you go, please confirm 

I’ve resolved your concern to your satisfaction today. 

: Yes. 

PAUL: Okay. I’m canceling your account as 

we speak. You should get the email in 24 hours or 

less. And, , we wish you the best moving 

forward. 

: Thanks. 

(Previous conversation between Jackie and 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 15 of 16 

Paul repeats on recording.) 

(The recording was concluded.) 

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Case 4:18-cv-00806-SBA Document 165-3 Filed 09/07/18 Page 16 of 16 

CERTIFICATE OF TRANSCRIPTIONIST 

I, Elizabeth M. Farrell, do hereby certify 

that the foregoing proceedings and/or conversations 

were transcribed by me via CD, videotape, audiotape or 

digital recording, and reduced to typewriting under my 

supervision; that I had no role in the recording of 

this material; and that it has been transcribed to the 

best of my ability given the quality and clarity of 

the recording media. 

I further certify that I am neither counsel 

for, related to, nor employed by any of the parties to 

the action in which these proceedings were 

transcribed; and further, that I am not a relative or 

employee of any attorney or counsel employed by the 

parties hereto, nor financially or otherwise 

interested in the outcome of the action. 

DATE: 9/6/2018 

ELIZABETH M. FARRELL, CERT 

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