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Financial Literacy and Education Commission (FLEC) Public Meeting

MINUTES

April 25, 2023, 3:00 PM – 4:30 PM (Eastern Time) 

Via Webcast: www.yorkcast.com/treasury/events/2023/04/25/flec 

ATTENDING MEMBERS

1. Department of the Treasury (Treasury) (Chair) 

• Nellie Liang, Under Secretary for Domestic Finance, Designee for Secretary 

of the Treasury Janet Yellen

2. Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) (Vice Chair) 

• Rohit Chopra, Director 

3. Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (FRB) 

• Angelyque Campbell, Associate Director and Community Affairs Officer

4. Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) 

• Dan Rutherford, Associate Director, Customer Outreach, Customer Education 

and Outreach

5. Department of Agriculture (USDA)

• Jessica Turner, Agricultural Economist/Program Specialist Community and 

Economic Development 

6. Department of Defense (DOD)

• Stephanie P. Miller, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Military 

Personnel Policy 

7. Department of Education (ED) 

• Elizabeth Coogan, Supervisory Capability Manager 

8. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS)

• Miranda Lynch-Smith, Senior Official Performing the Duties of the Assistant 

Secretary for Planning and Evaluation and Deputy Assistant Secretary for 

Human Services Policy 

9. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD)

• Terry Carr, Senior Policy Advisor 

10. Department of Interior (DOI)

• Treci Johnson, Director of Communication, Policy, and Training, Bureau of 

Trust Funds Administration 

11. Department of Labor (DOL) 
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• Ali Khawar, Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Employee Benefits 

Security Administration

12. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)

• Cheryl Rawls, Executive Director, Outreach, Transition, and Economic 

Development Veterans Benefits Administration

13. Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) 

• Martin Gruenberg, Chairman, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation 

14. Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)

• Samantha Brann, Chief, National Preparedness Program Branch, Individual & 

Community Preparedness Division

15. Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA)

• Sandra L. Thompson, Director 

16. Federal Trade Commission (FTC)

• Jennifer Leach, Associate Director, Division of Consumer and Business 

Education 

17. National Credit Union Administration (NCUA)

• Onjil McEachin, Director, Division of Consumer Affairs, Office of Consumer 

Financial Protection

18. Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC)

• Michael Hsu, Acting Comptroller 

19. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) 

• Patricia Sapol, Senior HR Specialist, Benefits Officers Development and 

Outreach, Retirement Services 

20. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC)

• Lori Schock, Director, Office of Investor Education and Advocacy 

21. Small Business Administration (SBA) 

• John “Jack” Bienko, Senior Innovation Advisor 

22. Social Security Administration (SSA) 

• Jeffrey Buckner, Acting Assistant Deputy Commissioner for Communications 

23. White House Domestic Policy Council (WHDPC)

• Sarah Brundage, Senior Advisor for Racial and Economic Justice 

SPECIAL REMARKS 

• Richard Cordray, Chief Operating Officer of Federal Student Aid, ED

PRESENTERS 

Financial Access for Justice-Involved Individuals 

• Graham Steele, Assistant Secretary for Financial Institutions, Treasury 

• Chastity Murphy, Senior Advisor, Financial Institutions, Treasury 

• Vanessa Chen, Special Assistant to the President for Criminal Justice and Guns Policy, 

WHDPC

• Andrea Matthews, Advisor to the Director, CFPB

Economic Impact Payments and Bankable Moments

• Elizabeth Ortiz, Deputy Director, Division of Depositor and Consumer Protection, FDIC

• Susan Robinson, Deputy Assistant Commissioner and Disbursing Officer, Bureau of the 

Fiscal Service, Treasury
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• Amelia Dalton, Senior Tax Analyst, National Partnerships, Internal Revenue Service 

• Mia Sowell, Senior Community Affairs Specialist, FDIC

• Jonathan Mintz, CEO, Cities for Financial Empowerment / BankOn Program 

• Naomi Camper, Chief Policy Officer, American Bankers Association

GENERAL SESSION

Welcome and Overview by the Moderator and Remarks by FLEC Chair and Vice Chair 

Suzanna Fritzberg, Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary for Capital Access, Moderator, opened the 

meeting at 3:00 p.m. and delivered opening remarks. 

Nellie Liang, Under Secretary for Domestic Finance, Treasury,

Designee of Secretary of the Treasury Janet Yellen, Chair 

The Under Secretary thanked members of the FLEC for their efforts in strengthening financial 

education and ensuring financial inclusion for all Americans. The Under Secretary noted the 

April commemoration of Financial Capability Month, as well as Second Chance Month, a 

nationwide effort to raise awareness of the barriers faced by justice involved individuals and 

unlock brighter futures for returning citizens. 

Under Secretary Liang noted that despite recent volatility, the banking system remains sound and 

the labor markets remain strong. The Under Secretary highlighted recent funding awards by the 

Community Development Financial Institutions (CDFI) Fund designed to enable mission-driven 

lenders to invest in businesses and communities to improve the accessibility of financial 

products. The Under Secretary highlighted recent Treasury and FLEC initiatives, including a 

forthcoming report on the impacts of climate change on household financial health and updates 

to Mymoney.gov. 

Rohit Chopra, Director, CFPB, Vice Chair 

Director Chopra discussed the dangers posed by quasi-banking tools such as peer-to-peer apps 

and digital payments and discussed the observed jump in consumer reliance on digital payments 

platforms. The Director noted ways in which junk fees can push consumers out of the traditional 

banking systems, citing one example that overdraft fees or minimum balance requirements cost 

Americans an estimated $15.5 billion in 2019. 

The Director added that cryptocurrency firm collapses, such as that of Futures Exchange (FTX), 

demonstrated the risks to consumers who trusted the companies to have appropriate controls 

regarding customer funds. The Director noted that consumers storing funds in a payment app 

such as Cashapp, Venmo and PayPal do not have access to FDIC deposit insurance. The Director 

encouraged the FLEC to think about how ways to best leverage technology to increase consumer 

safety rather than create new areas of risk. 

FLEC Member Remarks

Martin Gruenberg, Chairman, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC)
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Chairman Gruenberg noted data from the recent publication of the 2021 FDIC National Survey 

of Unbanked and Underbanked Households demonstrating that while the number of households 

without a bank account continues to decline, Black and Hispanic households, as well as 

households with lower formal education, continue to be less likely to have a bank account. The 

Chairman also noted that many households that established a banking relationship during the 

COVID-19 pandemic had received a public benefit or Economic Stimulus payment. Among 

those, almost half reported that the payment contributed to their decision to open a bank account. 

The Chairman noted that such “bankable” moments bring consumers closer to banking 

relationships, presenting opportunities for interagency collaboration to take advantage of 

opportunities to decrease the number of underbanked households. 

Special Remarks 

Richard Cordray, Chief Operating Officer of Federal Student Aid, ED

Richard Cordray raised awareness about the September 1, 2023 Return to Repayment, which 

ends the pandemic interest-free student loan forbearance and requires millions of Americans to 

return to making required monthly payments on student loan debt. Mr. Cordray noted that the 

Department of Education will provide resources to help raise consumers awareness of this event. 

Panel on Financial Access for Justice-Involved Individuals 

• Graham Steele, Assistant Secretary for Financial Institutions, Treasury

Assistant Secretary Steele highlighted that individuals who encounter the justice system are 

offered financial products and services that too often contain unfair terms and features which 

can have long-term negative effects on the individuals and their families. The Assistant 

Secretary noted that lack of information or accepted customer identification documents can 

make it more difficult for justice-involved individuals to navigate an already challenging 

transition back into society. 

• Chastity Murphy, Senior Advisor, Financial Institutions, Treasury 

Chastity Murphy introduced the panelists.

• Vanessa Chen, Special Assistant to the President for Criminal Justice and Guns Policy, 

WHDPC

Vanessa Chen noted that the May 25, 2022 Executive Order (EO) on Advancing Effective, 

Accountable Policing and Criminal Justice Practices to Enhance Public Trust and Public 

Safety, commonly referred to the Policing EO, established a Federal Interagency Alternative 

Reentry Committee (ARC) to develop and coordinate a strategic plan across the federal 

government that would include recommendations for the criminal justice systems to 1) 

improve public safety while safely reducing criminal justice interactions, 2) support 

rehabilitation, and 3) support reentry for those with criminal history records. Ms. Chen 

mentioned that ARC is intended to pay particular attention to reducing racial, ethnic, and 

criminal disparities in the justice system. Ms. Chen emphasized that barriers to accessing 

financial services, employment, or healthcare when a person is returning home from jail or 

prison may increase the risk of recidivism. 

• Andrea Matthews, Advisor to the Director, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau
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Andrea Matthews noted that currently in the U.S., 1 in 3 adults has a criminal record, 

impacting millions of Americans by requiring them to interact with a financial ecosystem 

that features less transparency and less choice in their banking options. Hidden fees such as 

“pay to stay” fees or medical copayments create a system of reliance on family and friends to 

support a person in prison or to shoulder court-related costs. Ms. Matthews also noted that 

the impact on women of color is even more acute than on the general population. Ms. 

Matthews highlighted that legal compliance with Know Your Customer (KYC), Bank 

Secrecy Act (BSA), and Anti-Money Laundering (AML) requirements may unfairly target 

justice-involved consumers. 

Question and Answer

Ms. Murphy asked Ms. Matthews if there was a relationship between the reintegration of 

individuals to the financial marketplace and a holistic return to their communities. Ms. 

Matthews referenced research that shows that returning individuals are 50% more likely to 

become entrepreneurs compared to those that have never been incarcerated. Access to small 

business lending, where institutions often limit creditworthiness in response to criminal 

backgrounds, presents an opportunity for focused attention. 

Ms. Murphy asked Andrea Matthews if there are other financial products in the consumer 

marketplace that impact persons returning from prison. Ms. Matthews highlighted tenant 

background checks and the use of algorithmic credit scoring as having possible negative 

impacts on individuals returning from prison who are seeking housing. 

Panel on Economic Impact Payments and Bankable Moments 

• Elizabeth Ortiz, Deputy Director, Division of Depositor and Consumer Protection, 

FDIC

Elizabeth Ortiz reflected on the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic and how each of the 

organizations on the panel contributed to integrating more Americans into the banking 

system. Ms. Ortiz noted the increase in online traffic to websites hosted by the FDIC and IRS 

and how consumers can access information on remote-opening bank accounts. 

• Susan Robinson, Deputy Assistant Commissioner and Disbursing Officer, Bureau of the 

Fiscal Service, Treasury

Susan Robinson highlighted the significant bankable moment that occurred during the weeks 

following the outbreak of COVID-19 in 2020. Ms. Robinson noted that within two weeks of 

the CARES Act being signed, the first direct impact payments were distributed through direct 

deposit. Ms. Robinson also highlighted challenges in cashing checks received in the mail and

issues for unbanked individuals in receiving payments, as well as forgery and theft concerns. 

• Amelia Dalton, Senior Tax Analyst, National Partnerships, Internal Revenue Service

(IRS)

Amelia Dalton emphasized the importance of using direct deposit and noted that the IRS 

includes FDIC links on the IRS website describing how to locate and use an FDIC-insured 

bank. Ms. Dalton highlighted the benefits of receiving tax refunds faster when consumers 

sign up for direct deposit online, when compared to mail-in checks, which take 

approximately 4-6 weeks. Ms. Dalton noted how financial literacy is part of the IRS’s 

business model, and that flyers, outreach events and social media are part of their efforts to 

reinforce their message to increase use of direct deposit. 
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• Mia Sowell, Senior Community Affairs Specialist, FDIC

Mia Sowell discussed how the FDIC helped ensure the safe delivery of economic recovery 

payments (also known as economic impact payment) during a time where millions needed to 

access their payments quickly to pay bills and purchase necessities. Ms. Sowell noted the 

FDIC is concerned with populations hardest hit during the pandemic and how they can access 

payments to sustain their household. The FDIC collaborated with bank trade organizations 

and the IRS to message the importance of having a bank account by including links on their 

website (www.FDIC.gov/getbanked) to link consumers to the FDIC resources on how to 

open a bank account. 

• Jonathan Mintz, CEO, Cities for Financial Empowerment / BankOn Program 

Jonathan Mintz stated that unbanked Americans are half as likely to build savings and to 

improve their credit scores, and said that if they become banked, their outcome achievement 

increases by a multiple of eight. Mr. Mintz noted the BankOn program is a three-part 

program that includes certified accounts, bankable moments, and organizations to connect 

people to safe accounts during bankable moments. Mr. Mintz noted reasons for customers 

leaving the banking system include no overdraft, surprise fees with very low opening deposit, 

creating a very accessible opening account. 

• Naomi Camper, Chief Policy Officer, American Bankers Association (ABA)

Naomi Camper cited the importance of bringing more people into the banking system. Ms. 

Camper discussed the efforts of banking institutions to solve the barrier problems mentioned 

in prior presentations. Ms. Camper applauded the bold leadership from the private sector and 

federal government. Ms. Camper noted that not all individuals will feel comfortable walking 

into a bank and stressed the importance of working with non-profit community organizations 

to bridge the gap. 

FLEC Member Discussion

Director Chopra discussed the need for all federal agencies to continue to focus on electronic 

payments and how to increase access to financial products and services. The Director noted that 

state and local governments should continue to focus on expanding the use of electronic 

payments to consumers, and that financial privacy is another factor to be considered. The 

Director noted that banks and credit unions have done a good job respecting the financial privacy 

of their customers but noted that could also present challenges when there is a need to focus on 

supervision with regard to possible criminal activity. 

Chairman Gruenberg highlighted the partnership between the Treasury Department, the IRS, 

FDIC, ABA, and Citizens for Financial Empowerment as a successful public-private partnership 

that can make an impact regarding the unbanked and financial inclusion. 

Conclusion 

Ms. Fritzberg adjourned the meeting at approximately 4:35 p.m.. 

OTHER MEETING ATTENDEES/PARTICIPANTS

Dubis Correal, CFPB 
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Matt Pippin, CFPB 

Saina Vanek, CFPB 

Dan Rutherford, CFTC 

Andy Cohen, DOD

Jerry Gidner, BTFA/DOI 

Ali Khawar, DOL

Elizabeth Coogan, ED 

Ronald Roach, ED 

Jackie Steller, FDIC 

Jessica Shui, FHFA 

Christopher Appel, FRB 

Jennifer Leach, FTC 

Cristina Miranda, FTC 

Gretchen Lehman, HHS 

Kira Krown, FTC 

Treci Johnson, AmeriCorps/HHS

Barry Wides, OCC

Louisa Quittman, OCC 

Jack Bienko, SBA

Tameka Taylor, SSA 

Callie Furmaniuk, UST

Jonathan Kesten, UST

Natalia Li, UST

Nora Esposito, UST

Tanya McInnis, UST

William Girardo, UST 

Shawnta Sampson, VA

Naiya Marshall, VA 

Ashley Harrington, Center for Responsible Lending (CRL)