EPA’s Summary of Meeting of Standard-Setting Groups for SAE International, Interior Climate 

Control Committee

New and Revised Standards for HFO-1234yf , HFC-134a, and R-744

Meeting held January 18, 2010 in Las Vegas, NV

Representatives from SAE International, automotive manufacturers (“original equipment 

manufacturers” or OEMs), and suppliers discussed 16 standards under consideration. EPA staff 

was also in attendance (Yaidi Cancel and Margaret Sheppard, Stratospheric Protection Division 

and Kristen Taddonio, Climate Protection Partnerships Division)

For abbreviation purposes, HFO-1234yf appears as R-1234yf and HCF-134a appears as R-134a.

Standards = stds

Agenda: 

9:30am: R-1234yf service fittings and stds

10:00am: Review of topics discussed on the November 20th meeting with EPA

11:00am: Break out of work teams

2:00pm: Group work team allots resolution for the stds

4:00pm: Future SEA meetings

4:15pm: Lubricant std

The committee is broken up into the following teams: OEMs, Motor A/C (MAC) suppliers, 

fluids, and servicing. 

Standards issues discussion

A brief introduction about the proposed standards for HFO-1234yf and the expected time in the 

ballot was discussed. At the end of the meeting the expected publication dates for the standards 

were changed. These dates were presented in the CRP1234 meeting of January 20th. For more 

information the presentation is available as a pdf document in the docket. 

SAE J 639 fitting issues (proposed changes/updates for this standard):

SAE J 639 “provides design standards and safety requirements for MAC systems. Also included 

are cautionary statements for the mobile air conditioning service industry to alert service 

technicians to the inadvisability and the possible health and safety effects associated with venting 

refrigerant during service.” (Atkinson, 2010)

The stakeholders commented that fitting measurements should be consistent according to the 

refrigerant used in the motor vehicle air conditioning (MVAC) system. Fittings for R-1234yf 

should be different from fittings for R-134a. Also, the attention was brought to update the 

coupling leading configuration to provide an adequate area to seal, and therefore, prevent 
leakages. Focus was brought to revise the cap seal and a reduction of the diameter of ball lock 

feature was proposed. 

SAE J 2844 - Refrigerant Purity and Container Requirements for New HFO-1234yf 

Refrigerant Used in Mobile Air-Conditioning Systems 

The attendees commented about the cylinder connections for R-1234yf, and pointed that such 

connections should be verified by the Compress Gas Association (CGA) to meet their 

requirements. There is a requested proposal to develop a standard including three new cylinder 

connections for R-152a, R-1234yf and R-744. However, priorities for this proposal might be low 

at the moment due to consistency issues with J 639. 

The attendees mentioned that changes may be done on the check valve assembly due to the 

flammability of R-1234yf. 

Also, discussion regarding the label for R-1234yf container was brought. The label is likely to 

contain a white background with a red border. 

The OEMs brought to attention an issue regarding most of the listed SNAP-MVAC 

alternative refrigerants due to the lack of certified service equipment that could lead into 

cross contamination of the MVAC systems. 

CRP 1234 meeting summary (from November 20, 2009)

During this session the presenter showed a summary of the topics discussed during the OEMs 

meeting with EPA on November 20, 2009. (Further details from this meeting can be viewed in 

the docket).

OEMs discussed the exposure limits of HF (AEGL-2 limit (94ppm, 10 min)) and compared with 

the actual results of HF production during the risk assessments. 

Comments from OEMs:

The OEMs commented that there should be a restriction of refrigerant use for professionals only

(therefore no DIY-ers). Also they commented that the proposed use conditions or proposed 

mitigations to limit the concentration such as applying blowers, could create problems with toxic 

fumes being brought into the passenger compartment, increasing safety issues concerns. 

The OEMs mentioned that HF generation is to be a low level of risk and added that risks with R1234yf are 20 times lower than R-152a. They recognized that EPA accepted R-152a to be used 

as a secondary loop, but such engineering strategy is not necessary with R-1234yf and will not 

work due to efficiency issues. 

The OEMs expressed that MVACs using R-1234yf should be acceptable without the specific use 

conditions mentioned in the proposed rule. The proposed rule should focus on standards such as 
J639 and risk assessments and studies made by the industry. “Raise those standards (referring to 

SAE stds) in the rulemaking”. 

Attention was brought again to the Ignition/explosion LFL test showing the ping-pong balls 

(showed during the November 20, 2009 meeting) as an approach to show that ignition during 

normal conditions is almost impossible with R-1234yf, since the ignition was assisted using a 

butane lighter. This showed that a high energy source is needed to ignite the refrigerant; however 

the flame propagation is minimal.

OEMs agreed (as discussed on the November 20 meeting) with the following use conditions 

from the proposed rule:

- Unique fittings, labeling, high pressure compressor cutoff switch, and failure mode and 

affect analysis (FMEA) on MVACs as stated in SAE J 1739 standard. 

Attendees Question and Answer session:

Some OEMs asked if the A/C lubricant has an effect on the refrigerant in the MVAC system. 

Others responded that, yes, the lubricant has an effect on flammability. Tests were conducted 

with lubricants as well (in risk analysis).

OEM work group std review teams:

Attendees broke into several groups to discuss topics to be addressed into the SAE stds and agree 

for a completion date for each std. 

MAC group review team & stds to review

J2064 – R-134a & R-1234yf refrigerant auto a/c hose and assemblies

J2842 - HFO-1234yf and R744 Design Criteria and Certification for OEM Mobile Air 

Conditioning Evaporator and Service Replacements 

J2911 - Certification Requirements For Mobile Air Conditioning System Components, Service 

Equipment, and Service Technicians to Meet SAE J Standards 

Service work group review team

J2843 - HFO-1234yf Recovery/Recycling/Recharging Equipment for Flammable Refrigerants 

for Mobile Air-Conditioning Systems 

J2845 - Technician Training for Safe Service and Containment of Refrigerants Used in Mobile 

A/C Systems (R-744, and HFO-1234yf) 

J2851 - HFO-1234yf Refrigerant Recovery Equipment for Mobile Automotive Air-Conditioning 

Systems 

J2913 - HFO-1234yf Refrigerant Electronic Leak Detectors, Minimum Performance Criteria 

J2888 - HFO-1234yf Service Hose, Fittings and Couplers for Mobile Refrigerant Systems 

Service Equipment 
J2912 - HFO-1234yf Refrigerant Identification Equipment for Use with Mobile Air Conditioning 

Systems 

J2927 - HFO-1234yf Refrigerant Identifier Installed In Recovery and Recycling Equipment For 

Use With Mobile A/C Systems 

J2911 – Procedure For Certification That Requirements For Mobile Air Conditioning System 

Components, Service Equipment and Service Technicians Meet SAE J Standards

Fluids work review team

J2099 - Standard of Purity for Recycled HFC-134a (R-134a) and HFO-1234yf (R-1234yf) or 

Use in Mobile Air-conditioning Systems 

J2670 - Stability and Compatibility Criteria for Additives and Flushing Materials Intended for 

Use in R-134a and HFO-1234yf Vehicle Air-Conditioning System 

J2844 - HFO-1234yf New Refrigerant Purity and Container Requirements Used in Mobile AirConditioning Systems 

OEM 

J2772 - Measurement of Passenger Compartment Refrigerant Concentrations under system 

refrigerant leakage conditions 

J2773 - HFO-1234yf and R744 Refrigerant Standard for Safety and Risk Analysis for use in 

Mobile Air Conditioning Systems 

J2842 - HFO-1234yf and R744 Design Criteria and Certification for OEM Mobile Air 

Conditioning Evaporator and Service Replacements 

Other topics:

HFO-1234yf name discussion:

Attendees agreed that the refrigerant HFO-1234yf could be called for technical purposes as R1234yf. 

Fluids group:

Issues: refrigerant purity, relationship to AHRI/ASHRAE standards, fittings, lubricants, impurity

levels after recovery of refrigerant.

Some attendees asked if vehicles using R-134a should be retrofitred to for R-1234yf. The group 

consensus was “no.”

Refrigerant service group 

Issues: leak detectors, recovery/recycling/recharging equipment, who may test to meet SAE 

standards, fittings, hoses, evaporators, technician training

Also concerns about dyes, refrigerant purity, aftermarket additives and flushing agents.

Outstanding issues on the proposed SAE J standards
J2911 - Certification Requirements for Mobile Air Conditioning System Components, 

Service Equipment, and Service Technicians to Meet SAE J Standards

An issue was brought into discussion addressing the concern of having equipment being labeled 

as SAE certified from labs with unknown credentials. One of the attendees brought into 

discussion the lack of enforcement to control testing facilities and find out if such facilities are 

following the standard testing procedures. 

The suggested SAE J2911 standard states: “Certification is required prior production of 

equipment for market sale, and application of the label that recognizes SAE as the certifying 

entity. Additional certification might be required if within one year after the product goes to 

market using a component purchased on the open market” 

J2912 - HFO-1234yf Refrigerant Identification Equipment for Use with Mobile Air 

Conditioning Systems 

Concern was brought into discussion regarding cross contamination in the MVAC system and 

the service equipment. Attendees commented on the importance to test the equipment prior 

having it available in the market. 

Future SAE congress meetings

- ICCC April 13 (9-5 in COBO)

- Climate control tech session (April 15)

- ISO/CRP/LCCP... TBA

- suites) – (focus on system efficiency)

New lubricant std – proposed by VDA

The proposed standard focuses on lubricant oils for refrigerant compressors, and requirements 

for its use with R-1234yf. The current oil alternatives include PAG, POE & PVE. The presenter 

stated that R-1234yf lubricants might have a larger demand compared with R134a for lubricants. 

Several issues were addressed to consider including different compressor types since all need oil 

and have to meet industry and std specifications, differences in viscosity, and stability when 

mixing with the refrigerants and metal parts. There were no suggestions to change the already 

available oils in the market. However, there may be changes in compressor design.

VDA said that they considered risks and performed conductivity measures of the oil. On of the 

attendees asked to pursue std, test methods used, and how much lubricant takes the a/c system. 

VDA said that the details regarding the oil and the studies and the proposal for were already sent 

for a review to the committee members. 

Question & Answer session with EPA:

Question - Does EPA want to consider comments after the close of the comment period?

Answer: Yes, we can consider comments once the public comment period is closed. (After that 

point, we are not legally obligated to consider). 
Question: What’s the timing now? Does the timing on the standards matter?

Answer: It will probably take EPA around 6-12 months to prepare a final rule. Standards must 

be final before there is a final rule. Ideally, standards would be final now so that we can take 

comment on the actual standard.

Question: Hypothetically—could EPA say that you’ve already taken comment, many have 

offered comments in support, so you could finalize?

Answer: We would need to check with legal counsel on that. Based on experience with other 

rules, ideally, we would like to give public the chance to actually see a document.