Financial Literacy and Education Commission Public Meeting Minutes

October 4, 2018

U.S. Department of the Treasury – Cash Room

9:00 a.m. to 11:30 a.m.

Louisa Quittman, Director, U.S. Department of the Treasury called the meeting to order at 9:00 

a.m. She introduced Treasurer Jovita Carranza. Treasurer Carranza welcomed the audience and 

noted the breadth of industries represented; from corporate, academic, and trade associations to 

the military. She stated the need to improve financial education and financial well-being to 

contribute to economic prosperity, before introducing the Secretary of the Treasury, Steven 

Mnuchin.

Secretary Mnuchin stressed financial empowerment and economic opportunity. He stated that, of 

the members of the Financial Literacy and Education Commission (FLEC), six agencies 

accounted for 90 percent of federal funds spent on financial education and expressed the need for 

consolidation and eliminating overlap and duplication. He noted that the President’s plan to 

reorganize the federal government included consolidating and streamlining financial literacy 

efforts. The team met with over 75 organizations to gather feedback on how the FLEC could 

improve coordination, amplify best practices, guide research progress and measure and track 

outcomes. He concluded his remarks by stating that he is looking forward to working with 

nonprofits, state and local governments, and the private sector to ensure greater financial 

capability for individuals and households. 

Treasurer Carranza then introduced Vice Chair and Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection

(BCFP) Acting Director, Mick Mulvaney. The Vice Chair began by noting the important role 

that financial education plays in protecting consumers. He mentioned new resources available on 

the BCFP’s website to help recover or rebuild after a disaster. The Bureau is focused on 

promoting best practices, improving financial education around student borrowing, and working 

with the Department of Agriculture to improve outreach in rural communities. He pointed out 

that the federal government spends $250 million on financial education and that agencies could 

work better to measure success together.

Upon the departure of the Chair and Vice Chair, Treasurer Carranza made remarks on FLEC 

reform. She stated that by supporting financial education, the federal government can address 

two market inefficiencies: the positive spillovers of a more educated and productive workforce 

and the negatives of a financially unprepared population. She discussed the FLEC reform 

process to date, which included meetings, calls and canvassing the financial education 

ecosystem. As a result, six high-impact areas were determined to frame financial education. 

These areas concentrate on the household balance sheet. A set of proposed performance 

measures and metrics were developed and three cross-cutting issues were identified as needing 

greater coordination: research, digital resources, and outreach. FLEC will seek to better 

institutionalize best practices, including five based on principles proposed by the BCFP and three 

additional best practices: know the population served, deliver actionable, timely and relevant 

information, develop practical financial skills, build on existing motivations and make it easy to 

make good decisions. The three additional best practices are: professionalize financial 
education, evaluate for impact, and provide ongoing support. She noted that financial education 

is a shared responsibility with governments, nonprofits and the private sector. The federal 

government should not attempt to directly deliver financial education but rather promote best 

practices, share evidence-based solutions, and deploy policy leadership. 

Chris Weaver, Acting Director of the Office of Consumer Policy discussed other FLEC reform 

actions. He identified three major issues reform seeks to address. The first is developing a 

governance structure oriented around six high-impact areas: basic financial capability, housing 

counseling, retirement savings, investor education, and military and veterans’ programs. The 

second requires rebalancing resources spent on financial education to better align with priorities. 

The third is developing performance measures that can track changes in behavior. He noted that 

Treasury will be sending recommendations on FLEC reform to the Office of Management and 

Budget shortly. Mr. Weaver ended by thanking everyone who has contributed to the process.

Ms. Quittman introduced Sarah Gerecke, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Office of Housing 

Counseling, and Marina Myhre, Ph.D. Social Science Analyst, Program Evaluation Division, 

Office of Policy Development and Research, U.S. Department of Housing and Urban 

Development, who discussed HUD’s housing counseling program performance. 

Dr. Myhre began by stating their mission, which is to help families obtain, sustain and retain 

their homes. Through a strong network of housing counseling agencies, HUD has reached over a 

million families annually. She mentioned two prior studies, one on foreclosure prevention and 

pre-purchase counseling, which paved the way for the current study underway on the effects of 

homebuyer counseling. The baseline study and a review of over 50 studies show mostly positive 

correlation between housing counseling and better credit, reduced debt, greater savings, and 

higher satisfaction with the mortgage process. Other studies show positive effects on debt 

delinquencies, foreclosure, and reductions in the mortgage default rate for first-time homebuyers. 

She discussed the design of the study. Early results of the short-term study indicate that 

counseling results in improved mortgage literacy, greater appreciation for communicating with 

lenders, and improved underlying qualifications. 

Ms. Gerecke began by noting the partnership between HUD and the FLEC and praising the 

rethinking of the FLEC’s work. She discussed the difference between research and data 

collection and how activities are categorized for analysis. She noted that the type of counseling 

shifts most recently changed from foreclosure prevention to pre-purchase counseling, depending 

on conditions. She discussed specific outcomes that could be measured, such as developing a 

budget or accessing resources to improve their housing situations. Some outcomes, such as 

foreclosure prevention, cannot be immediately measured. Research using administrative data 

can help determine long-term impacts. She mentioned the difficulties in determining impact and 

that the numbers are significantly underreported as a result. She then discussed the demographics 

of the population being served and how these numbers can help HUD determine if they are 

reaching people that Americans want to see served. Research helps HUD communicate with 

Congress and the public to determine service gaps or unmet needs. She noted the importance of 

using the appropriate lessons from the appropriate data source and highlighted randomized 

control trials (RCT). As an example, she discussed outcomes of an RCT that showed people 
who engaged online have higher rates of program completion and high levels of satisfaction, but 

researchers have yet to determine effectiveness of this type of engagement. Last, Ms. Gerecke

highlighted the value that research has in promoting good policy, both in government and private 

sectors. 

Ms. Quittman facilitated questions for the panel from the FLEC members. Mr. Weaver asked 

was if there was a difference in effectiveness depending on the delivery system for counseling. 

Ms. Gerecke stated that results are forthcoming, but that counselors and content are required to 

adhere by HUD’s standards, regardless of the organization delivering the information. 

Regarding whether HUD was tracking effectiveness of group vs. individual settings for 

education, they are not tracked, but added that both methods have their usefulness. HUD 

includes one to two hours of individual counseling in their services. 

Mr. Gutierrez asked if HUD had information that was specific to Hispanic populations. Ms. 

Gerecke responded that HUD does have this information, and Hispanics represented are just 

under 25% of the study participants. She also pointed out that their materials and services are 

conducted in a variety of languages. She talked about the burdens of collecting information and 

how they navigate what will be collected and reported.

Another question asked if HUD works with states to help them determine priorities and share 

information. Ms. Gerecke stated that HUD provides training, produces newsletters, and shares 

research with the industry. Recently they used data to design their grant application to prioritize 

the need for more reverse mortgage counseling and disaster recovery counseling. 

A question was asked if HUD works with realtors, Ms. Gerecke replied that counseling agencies 

work with realtors, developers, and trade associations. HUD has a national advisory commission 

to gather information as part of a feedback loop to inform HUD and the field. 

Mr. Rutledge asked if there is a role that counseling can play in retirement readiness. Ms. 

Gerecke responded that there are several aspects of pre-purchase counseling that can help with 

retirement, including savings that might occur from paying a mortgage regularly. She mentioned 

that HUD could include more information on retirement in their basic financial programs. 

Mr. Wides asked how industry can use HUD’s data. Ms. Gerecke discussed improving data 

collection from the lenders using the 9902 Form to determine if people were being directed to 

counseling but noted the difficulties in getting voluntary information from lenders. 

Mr. Billouris asked if the study captures counseling engagement by web browser or mobile app. 

Dr. Myhre replied that it does not but does have information on how people progress through the 

learning modules using technology. 

Director Quittman thanked Ms. Gerecke and Dr. Myhre and introduced the next speaker, Dr. 

Daniel Kanewski, Deputy Administrator, FEMA. Dr. Kanewski thanked the FLEC for its 

support during recent disasters and stated that FEMA shares a commitment to sustained financial 

well-being for Americans. 
Dr. Kanewski discussed FEMA’s strategic plan, which includes a primary goal of building a 

“culture of preparedness” and the relationship between mitigation, resilience, and financial 

preparedness. He noted that for every dollar invested in mitigation, the country saves $6. 

He mentioned the huge gap in insurance and the expected losses of $60 billion per year due to 

disasters. Households recovering from flooding in Harris County, TX who had flood insurance 

received on average $110,000 vs. the $4,000 those who did not have insurance. He noted that an 

estimated one out of every three homes in America are uninsured, and many Americans do not 

understand the limited scope of FEMA’s programs. 

Dr. Kanewski then discussed the lack of emergency savings in American households. He noted 

FEMA’s preparedness survey, which showed that people with higher incomes were more likely 

to take actions to be prepared. FEMA recently partnered with the FLEC during April Financial 

Capability Month to message on financial preparedness, and the campaign reached 28 million 

Americans. The Emergency Financial First Aid Kit (EFFAK) is now the most downloaded 

resource from FEMA’s website. FEMA is working with State Emergency Managers to 

incorporate financial preparedness partnerships into their strategies. FEMA is also working with 

youth to promote preparedness. Additionally, FEMA has included two questions on household 

finances in their most recent survey that can gauge financial preparedness. The survey had two 

interesting findings: those with flood insurance are more likely to take action and had also 

experienced a disaster. Regarding renters, a HUD survey found that 39% of the 44 million 

Americans who rent did not have access to $2,000 for evacuation. 

Director Quittman moderated questions from the FLEC. 

Ms. Lazere asked how America compares with other countries regarding insurance costs. Dr. 

Kanewski did not know but posited that inability to pay contributes to insurance gaps. He stated 

that the National Flood Insurance Program has incurred $20 billion in debt, and that one part of 

the solution is to implement an affordable insurance so more households can participate. 

Director Quittman asked about the role of states and localities in financial preparedness and how 

this connects to other financial education efforts Dr. Kanewski responded that the state 

emergency managers have not generally engaged in conversations with other agencies on 

financial preparedness. FEMA is encouraging them to meet with insurance commissions in their 

states to address the insurance gap. 

Dr. Sahm asked about FEMA’s campaign to increase flood insurance uptake. Dr. Kanewski 

stated that it was still early in the plan to double flood insurance participation by 2023, but 

FEMA has made progress testing messaging. FEMA found that as a hurricane approaches, those 

in “shoulder” communities (communities who lie close to but not in the path of the hurricane) 

had higher rates of uptake. New messages seek to help people comprehend that floods are not 

covered by homeowner’s policies, and these are shown in unusual places, such as gas station 

screens or pop ups when it is raining. 

Mr. Patterson asked for clarification on how insurance is presented during home buying and the 

percentage of people who do not have insurance but are in flood zones. Dr. Kanewski discussed 
the differences in risk zones and that only one-third of people in high-risk areas have flood 

insurance. There are many reasons for this, but he emphasized that any home could flood, 

regardless of their risk zone. Eighty percent of the losses due to Hurricane Harvey occurred 

outside of the flood zone. 

Ms. Ratcliffe asked about metrics for emergency funds and whether there was opportunity for 

the FLEC to share common metrics around financial preparedness. Dr. Kanewski replied that 

they will continue to use common surveys, such as the annual Survey of Household Economics 

and Decisionmaking, HUD’s rental survey, and their own survey of preparedness to better 

understand and respond to financial preparedness. 

Director Quittman thanked Dr. Kanewski and introduced Dr. Wayne Johnson, Chief Strategy and 

Transformational Officer for Federal Student Aid, US Department of Education.

Dr. Johnson introduced the new mobile application for the Free Application for Federal Student 

Aid. The mobile app will help students and parents complete the application, manage their loans 

and oversee their funding relationship. Dr. Johnson noted that $1.5 trillion dollars has been 

disbursed in student loans, yet little has been done to educate students about how to manage 

money. Dr. Johnson also discussed potential future innovations, such as uploading financial 

education content for students and using the app to students find small-dollar loans to help 

overcome obstacles that can affect their education. He emphasized that these ideas were still 

under consideration and had yet to be approved. 

Mr. Patterson asked if students and parents can both interface with the app, and how it can be 

used to temper student borrowing. Dr. Johnson stressed that the app and website are designed to 

be interactive with student, parent, and FSA. They are encouraging this technology to be used as 

a communication tool between parents, students, and FSA. The app will use “nudges” to 

encourage positive financial behavior, such as making consistent payments on student debt and 

saving.

Mr. Reynolds asked if FSA is considering targeting high school students at an earlier age, and 

Dr. Johnson replied that FSA is targeting students at the junior level to pre-fill the application. 

Ms. Lazere asked if the app is accessible to people with disabilities, and Dr. Johnson replied that 

he would have to check. 

Director Quittman thanked Dr. Johnson and introduced the next speaker, Dr. Patricia Greene, 

Director of the Women’s Bureau.

Dr. Greene discussed the digital platform that is being created to assist women entrepreneurs in 

growing their businesses, since many women entrepreneurs, many with no formal business or 

financial training and face bigger funding gaps than their male peers. The platform will deliver 

information based on individual goals and on a “just in time” basis. The first phase focuses on 

seven learning paths.

Mr. Reynolds suggested that the Women’s Bureau explore using Money Smart before creating 

new financial education content and Dr. Greene agreed. 
Mr. Gutierrez mentioned their partnership with the Women’s Bureau on this project and was 

excited about the upcoming rollout. 

Director Quittman thanked Dr. Greene and turned the meeting over to the Treasurer for closing 

remarks.

The Treasurer concluded by thanking the speakers and participants. She emphasized that having 

23 agencies focused on a global model with common metrics will reap benefits, and she looks 

forward to implementing reform in 2019. Between this meeting and the end of the year, the 

Treasurer and team will be meeting with FLEC member agencies to further discuss FLEC 

reform. The next FLEC Public Meeting will be held in early 2019. 

The meeting concluded at 10:56.

Speakers 

Sarah Gerecke, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Office of Housing Counseling, U.S. Department of 

Housing and Urban Development

Marina Myhre, Ph.D. Social Science Analyst, Program Evaluation Division, Office of Policy 

Development and Research, U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development

Patricia Greene, Ph.D., Director, Women’s Bureau

FLEC Members

Steven T. Mnuchin, Secretary of the Treasury, U.S. Department of the Treasury, Chair

Jovita Carranza, Treasurer of the United States, U.S. Department of the Treasury

Louisa Quittman, Director, Financial Education, U.S. Department of the Treasury

Christopher Weaver, Acting Director, Office of Consumer Policy, Department of the Treasury

Mick Mulvaney, Acting Director, Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection, Vice Chair

Janneke Ratcliffe, Director, Office of Financial Education, Bureau of Consumer Financial 

Protection

Claudia Sahm, Section Chief, Consumer & Community Development Research Group, Board of 

Governors, Federal Reserve System 

Erica Elliott Richardson, Director, Office of Public Affairs, Commodities Futures Trading 

Commission

Toija Riggins, National Program Leader-Division of Family and Consumer Sciences, 

Department of Agriculture

Charles "Fred" Drummond, Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense, Force Education and 

Training, Department of Defense

A. Wayne Johnson, Chief Strategy and Transformation Officer, Department of Education

Mary Lazare, Principal Deputy Administrator, Administration for Community Living, 

Department of Health and Human Services

Terry Carr, Senior Program Advisor, Office of Housing Counseling, Department of Housing and 

Urban Development

Jerold Gidner, Principal Deputy Special Trustee, Office of the Special Trustee for American 

Indians, Department of the Interior

Preston Rutledge, Assistant Secretary, Employee Benefits Security Administration, Department 

of Labor
Jamie Manker, Chief Financial Officer, Veterans Benefits Administration, Department of 

Veterans Affairs

Luke Reynolds, Chief, Outreach and Program Development, Division of Depositor & Consumer 

Protection, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation

Dr. Daniel Kaniewski, Deputy Administrator, Department of Homeland Security, Federal 

Emergency Management Agency

Andrew Smith, Director, Bureau of Consumer Protection, Federal Trade Commission

Marietta Jelks, Consumer Action Handbook Editor in Chief, General Services Administration

Matthew Biliouris, Deputy Director, Office of Consumer Protection, National Credit Union 

Administration

Mike Evans, HR Specialist, Office of Personnel Management

Barry Wides, Deputy Comptroller, Community Affairs, Office of the Comptroller of the 

Currency

Mary Head, Assistant Director, Office of Investor Education and Advocacy, Securities and 

Exchange Commission

Allen Gutiérrez, Associate Administrator, Office of Entrepreneurial Development, Small 

Business Administration

Robert "Bob" Patterson, Associate Commissioner, Office of External Affairs, Office of 

Communications, Social Security Administration