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U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

TREASURY TRIBAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE 

PUBLIC MEETINGMINUTES –

September 18, 2019

9:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.

The Treasury Tribal Advisory Committee (TTAC) conducted a public meeting on September 18, 

2019, in the Cash Room at the U.S. Department of the Treasury, 1500 Pennsylvania Avenue 

NW, Washington, D.C.

In accordance with the provisions of Public Law 92-463, the meeting was open to the public 

from 9:00 a.m. to 4:30 p.m.

The following TTAC members were present:

TTAC

Chairman W. Ron Allen

Rebecca Benally

Sharon Edenfield

Lacey Horn, Chair

Patricia “Trish” King

Eugene Magnuson, Vice-Chair

Chief Lynn Malerba

The following Treasury representatives were present:

Office of Tax Policy

Krishna Vallabhaneni, Tax Legislative Counsel and TTAC Designated Federal Officer (DFO) 

Kimberly Koch, Attorney-Advisor, Office of Tax Legislative Counsel

CDFI Fund

Clint Hastings, Senior Portfolio Manager

Rosa Martinez, New Markets Tax Credits

Internal Revenue Service

Christie Jacobs, Director, Indian Tribal Governments Office

Telly Meier, Indian Tribal Governments Office

Victoria Judson, Associate Chief Counsel (Employee Benefits, Exempt Organizations, and 

Employment Taxes (EEE)), IRS/Office of Chief Counsel

Janine Cook, Deputy Associate Chief Counsel (Exempt Organizations and Employment Taxes), 

IRS/Office of Chief Counsel (EEE)

Pamela Kinard, Special Counsel to the ACC, IRS/Office of Chief Counsel (EEE)

Lisa Mojiri-Azad, Assistant to the Branch Chief IRS/Office of Associate Chief Counsel (Income 

Tax and Accounting)

Angella Warren, Branch Chief, IRS/Office of Associate Chief Counsel (Income Tax and 

Accounting)
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Dave Rifkin, Senior Attorney, IRS/Office of Chief Counsel (EEE)

CALL TO ORDER

DFO Vallabhaneni called the meeting to order at 9:14 a.m. and turned it over to Chairperson 

Lacey Horn.

TTAC Member Rebecca Benally provided a tribal opening

ROLL CALL

All TTAC members were present with the exception of Chairman W. Ron Allen, who joined the 

meeting at 10:42 a.m.

Rebecca Benally made a motion to approve the June 20, 2019, TTAC Public Meeting Minutes. 

Chief Lynn Malerba seconded. Motion passed unanimously.

Vice-Chair Magnuson made a motion recommending that the TTAC Charter be amended to 

reflect a membership start date of June 20, 2019. Councilwoman Sharon Edenfield seconded. 

Motion passed unanimously.

Rebecca Benally made a motion to approve the TTAC Committee bylaws. Chief Lynn Malerba 

seconded. Motion passed unanimously.

Rebecca Benally thanked NAFOA and NCAI for their work in supporting the TTAC

TTAC member Sharon Edenfield summarized written public comments submitted by the 

National Congress of American Indians, Kickapoo Traditional Tribe of Texas, Lummi Nation, 

Oglala Sioux Tribe, Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians and the Prairie Band of Potawatomi 

Nation. Public comments will be available on the Treasury Tribal Policy website.

Chairperson Horn invited members of the audience to make public comments.

Samuel Cohen, Government Affairs and Legal Officer, Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians, 

thanked Treasury and IRS for their recent guidance regarding the refinancing of Tribal Economic 

Development Bonds. He then discussed issues related to the General Welfare Exclusion and 

requested additional guidance on consideration for medical benefits.

Lydia Bearkiller, Office of Special Trustee Representative, Oglala Sioux Tribe, expressed 

concerns about the reorganizing of the IRS, including the Indian Tribal Governments office and 

downsizing of regional offices. A lack of regional offices to provide support to remote tribes 

puts a burden on these tribes. Often they need to travel great distances or need to secure 

expensive legal assistance to continue business operations.

Jackson S. Brossy, Executive Director, Native CDFI Network discussed the importance of the 

Native American CDFI Program, recommendations for examining the need for the program in 

Indian Country and increasing resources to the Program. He also discussed barriers to tribal 

participation in Opportunity Zones and New Markets Tax Credits and the negative impact of 

dual taxation on economic development in Indian Country.
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Clint Hastings, Senior Portfolio Manager CDFI Fund, thanked Jackson S. Brossy for his 

comments and made recommendations to attend the CDFI Advisory Committee meetings and 

getting in contact with Shane Jets from the CDFI Advisory Committee who oversees lending and 

community development in Indian Country.

The Chair thanked the presenters for their comments and participation.

Vice-Chair Magnuson mentioned that the recently adopted bylaws require that public comments 

be received 15 calendar days in advance of a public meeting. This will provide adequate time to 

forward comments to TTAC members for consideration.

The TTAC discussed the need to develop a Priority Matrix that will define issues related to tax, 

propose solutions and identify action items for the TTAC to pursue. 

The TTAC suggested that NAFOA would be the best choice to work with the TTAC in 

developing this, as they have the ability to secure feedback from tribes. Chief Lynn Malerba 

made a motion to request that NAFOA develop a Priority Matrix with tribal input. ViceChairperson Eugene Magnuson seconded, motion passed unanimously.

The TTAC then led a discussion on the General Welfare Exclusion. This is the primary statutory 

mandate for the creation of the TTAC. Particular emphasis was spent on the lack of definition of 

the terms “lavish and extravagant” as they relate to tribal benefits and income taxation. Defining 

these terms as they relate to benefits and taxable income will require in-depth exploration of the 

role that tribal culture plays in providing benefits. There was also discussion on the current 

moratorium on auditing tribal benefits and whether reinstituting audits would trigger a 

retroactive audit. IRS staff reiterated that usually audits are forward-looking. IRS staff 

discussed the process for removing the moratorium, which would involve issuing guidance, 

developing IRS field agent and tribal financial officers’ training, and then implementing that 

training. The TTAC and Treasury reiterated that they will be working together to provide 

relevant guidance and training as part of their mandate. The DFO stated that the law requires 

that Treasury consult with tribes regarding the definition of “lavish and extravagant”. 

Chairperson Horn expressed support for a “safe harbor” provision for GWE benefits.

Chairperson Horn discussed the work of the three subcommittees and the need for external 

experts to provide expertise on the priority issues. Chief Lynn Malerba made a motion for 

NAFOA to conduct a call for experts. Sharon Edenfield seconded. Motion passed unanimously.

Chief Lynn Malerba discussed the need for as many TTAC members as possible to participate in 

the GWE subcommittee. It was noted that the DFO will need to participate in any subcommittee 

meetings that involve four or more TTAC members. It was noted that Treasury’s expertise will 

be required in depth on GWE issues. Chief Malerba emphasized that, “It’s not about the source 

of funds, such as gaming or other enterprises, but more on the use of funds that create a stable 

community. We are in a process of nation-rebuilding.”
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Sharon Edenfield, reiterated Chief Lynn Malerba’s comments. She noted tribal nations are all 

different and the cultural significance for each tribe is different and unique and will need to be 

highlighted in further discussion and solutions. 

Vice Chairperson Eugene Magnuson made a note that individual audits are continuing and GWE 

payments and other items are being scrutinized despite not being income and nontaxable. ViceChairperson Eugene recommended a reminder to IRS field agents concerning the moratorium on 

audits and the unique nature of GWE payments. 

Sharon Edenfield posed a technical question, concerning the moratorium of audits and whether 

the audits will be retroactive following guidance.

Treasury officials provided clarity. In general, when Treasury issues guidance under a statutory 

provision through regulation process and most generally regulations and other guidance are 

prospective and there are exceptions depending on the issue, but something we will keep into 

consideration. 

Sharon Edenfield pursued the question on the moratorium and retroactive audits. 

Christie Jacobs mentioned this will be an issue to be worked out. This issue has been 

outstanding since 2014 and guidance has yet to be issued. Tribal officials and governments are 

trying to stay in compliance during this period/. She addressed a question from Vice-Chairperson 

Magnuson on individual audits, whereby individuals are audited because the 1099 statement 

submitted by the tax payer does not match the 1099 received by the IRS for tribal benefits. 

Letters are sent to the taxpayer requesting that they contact the IRS. . She mentioned that this 

outcome could be the result of a mismatch between automated records. The IRS Tribal 

Governments Office would encourage the tax payer to reach out to the Tribal Government office 

for clarification. 

Chairman W. Ron Allen Joined the Meeting at 10:42 A.M. He provided comments on GWE and 

items to be clarified. 

Rebecca Benally made comments regarding cultural and ceremonial issues under GWE. 

Patricia King made comments on the use of revenue used by the nations, i.e. gaming and other 

enterprise dollars, which fund the services and governance. In our nation is it almost one hundred 

percent of gaming dollars going to those items. We pay regulatory fees which are not taxes on 

gaming operations. There needs to be another conversation on these items.

Chairman W. Ron Allen, mentioned planning on the training of IRS field agents and Native 

American finance officers. He mentioned identifying and collecting information from tribal 

leaders that are unique to each region and tribe in Indian Country. 

Telly Meier, IRS, agreed, but reiterated that guidance needs to be issued first until considerations 

for training are considered.
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Krishna Vallabhaneni made comments on the issuance of guidance and that this will be a 

consultative process. DFO Vallabhaneni went further to quote the TGWEA, “Ambiguities in 

section 139E of such Code [Internal Revenue Code of 1986], as added by this Act, shall be 

resolved in favor of Indian tribal governments and deference shall be given to Indian tribal 

governments for the programs administered and authorized by the tribe to benefit the general 

welfare of the tribal community.”

Sharon Edenfield concurred and thanked Krishna Vallabhaneni for this reference.

Chairperson Horn affirmed the discussion and agreed with the substance of the GWE 

conversation. 

The next order of business was to identify experts to serve on a volunteer basis on TTAC 

subcommittees. A process will be identified after the second meeting and before the third 

meeting. The motion to put out a call for experts was motioned by Chief Lynn Malerba and 

seconded by Chairman W. Ron Allen. The motion carried unanimously.

Chief Lynn Malerba recommended and requested that each of the TTAC members be allowed to 

participate in conversations with the GWE subcommittee since it is integral to the mandate of the 

Committee. 

Chairman W. Ron Allen provided support for Chief Lynn Malerba’s comments. He 

recommended and requested regular updates from the subcommittees. 

Patricia King motioned to request that Chairman W. Ron Allen draft a purpose statement for the 

GWE subcommittee to help guide their work. The TTAC will review and finalize the statement. 

Sharon Edenfield seconded. Motion carried unanimously.

Chief Lynn Malerba led a discussion on Dual Taxation. She reiterated that the issue of dual 

taxation hinders economic development in Indian Country, and tribes need to have the ability to 

tax businesses in order to provide for tribal services. The negative externality of dual taxation in 

a reservation setting is compounded by the fact the non-tribal taxing municipality uses the taxes 

received from reservation businesses to provide services to non-tribal citizens. In effect, the 

tribal citizens do not receive any benefit from that taxation since tribal services are provided and 

financed by the tribe through their own coffers. Rebecca Benally noted that dual taxation makes 

investment on tribal lands unattractive to potential investors.

Vice-Chairperson Eugene Magnuson led a discussion on the dual Tribal Pension system and 

noted that this requires extra expense, additional compliance and results in a loss of economic 

investment advantages because this system leads to a lack of economies of scale for pension 

investments.

Patricia King made a motion to assign Chairman W. Ron Allen and Sharon Edenfield to lead the 

GWE subcommittee. Sharon Edenfield seconded and motion passed unanimously.
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Sharon Edenfield made a motion to assign Chief Lynn Malerba and Rebecca Benally to lead the 

Dual Taxation subcommittee. Chairman W. Ron Allen seconded and motion carried 

unanimously.

Chairman W. Ron Allen made a motion for NAFOA to manage subcommittee scheduling, work 

plans and deliverables. Vice-Chairperson Eugene Magnuson seconded motion. Motion carried 

unanimously.

The TTAC emphasized the need for Treasury to provide resources to support subcommittees. 

IRS stated that they will be working with Treasury to provide support for subcommittee work. 

Vicki Judson will provide support regarding tribal pensions. Other Treasury Bureaus and 

Offices expressed their support for the TTAC’s work.

IRS/Office of Chief Counsel staff Vicki Judson and Pamela Kinard introduced themselves to the 

TTAC and provided background on Tribal Pensions.

TTAC members discussed the overlap between tax policy issues and other federal agency policy 

issues. It was suggested that Treasury meet with other federal agencies (DOL, DOI/OST) as 

necessary to inform TTAC priorities.

Taxation on per capita distributions was discussed. IRS mentioned recent guidance on this issue, 

which will be forwarded to the TTAC.

Vice-Chairperson Eugene Magnuson called for a recess.

Break for Lunch 11:15 a.m., reconvened at 12:00 p.m.

Chairperson Horn opened the floor for Public Comments. Phillip Elli, Treasurer, Absentee 

Shawnee Tribe of Indians of Oklahoma, thanked the TTAC for their work on behalf of the tribes 

of Oklahoma.

Chairperson Horn mentioned the upcoming tribal consultations on tribally-chartered corporations 

on October 8, 2019, and October 10, 2019, and on Opportunity Zones on October 21, 2019.

CLOSING BUSINESS

Future Meeting Dates

The TTAC has the following future dates, subject to change:

 December 3, 2019

 March 24, 25, 26, 2020

 September 14, 15, 16 – 2020

Meeting adjourned at 12:14 p.m.