MEETING

STATE OF CALIFORNIA

AIR RESOURCES BOARD

JOE SERNA, JR. BUILDI NG

CALIFORNIA ENVIRONMENTAL PROTEC TION AGENCY

BYRON SHER AUDITORIUM, SECO ND FLOOR

1001 I STREET

SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNI A

THURSDAY, JANUARY 28, 2 010

9:00 A.M.

TIFFANY C. KRAFT, CSR, RPR

CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER

LICENSE NUMBER 12277APPEARANCES

BOARD MEMBERS

Ms. Mary Nichols, Chairperson

Dr. John R. Balmes

Ms. Sandra Berg

Ms. Doreene D'Adamo

Mr. Ronald O. Loveridge

Mr. Ron Roberts

Dr. Daniel Sperling

Dr. John Telles

Mr. Ken Yeager

STAFF

Mr. James Goldstene, Executive Officer

Ms. La Ronda Bowen, Ombudsman

Mr. Tom Cackette, Chief Deputy Executiv e Officer

Ms. Ellen Peter, Chief Counsel

Mr. Michael Scheible, Deputy Executive Officer

Ms. Lynn Terry, Deputy Executive Office r

Ms. Lori Andreoni, Board ClerkAPPEARANCES CONTINUE D

STAFF

Mr. Joseph Gormley, Air Resources Engin eer, Rule Evalution

Section, Stationary Source Division

Mr. Paul Henderick, Air Pollution Speci alist, Retrofit

Assessment Section, Mobile Source Contr ol Division

Ms. Lucille Van Ommering, Manager, Prog ram Development

Section, Office of Climate Change

Mr. Jim Ryden, Chief, Enforcement Divis ion

Ms. Annalisa Schilla, Air Pollution Spe cialist, Climate

Action and Research Planning Section, R D

Mr. Erik White, Senior Staff Counsel, O ffice of Legal

Affairs

ALSO PRESENT

Dr. Rasto Brezny, MECA

Deputy Attorny General Will Brieger

Mr. Skip Brown, Delta Construction Comp any

Mr. Anthony Brunello, Deputy Secretary, California Natural

Resources Agency

Mr. Julian Canete, CA Hispanic Chambers of Commerce

Ms. Brenda Colman, California Chamber

Mr. William Davis, SCCA

Mr. Michael Endicott, Sierra Club Ca

Mr. Arthur Fulton, Diamond Well Drillin g

Mr. Randal Friedman, U.S. Navy

Mr. Bill Gaines, Transfer Flow, Inc.APPEARANCES CONTINUE D

ALSO PRESENT

Mr. Michael Graboski, American Rental A ssociation

Mr. Josh Gruen, CMI

Ms. Bonnie Holmes-Gen, American Lung As sociation

Mr. Alex Jackson, NRDC

Mr. Andy Katz, Breathe California

Mr. Karl Lany, SCEC

Mr. Michael Lewis, CIAQD

Mr. Gary Liss, Local Government Commiss ion

Mr. Edwin Lombard, Cal Black Chamber

Mr. Bill Magavern, Sierra Club Ca

Ms. Sabrina Means, California Transit A ssociation

Mr. Mike Mortensson, California Groundw ater Assocation

Mr. Brian Nowicki, Center for Biologica l Diversity

Mr. Alan Osofsky, West State Alliance

Mr. Joseph Partransky, Healthy Ports an d Ships

Ms. Mary Pitto, Regional Council of Rur al Counties

Ms. Betty Plowman, CA Dump Truck Owners Association

Ms. Catherine Reheis-Boyd, WSPA

Ms. Marisa Rimland, Public Health Insti tute

Ms. Erin Rogers, Union of Concerned Sci entists

Ms. Patty Senecal, IWLA

Mr. Tom Swenson, CleaireAPPEARANCES CONTINUE D

ALSO PRESENT

Mr. James Thomas, Nabors Well Services Company

Mr. Doug Van Allen, BJ Services Company

Mr. Matt Vander Sluis, Planning and Con servation League

Mr. Derek Walker, EDF

Mr. Barry Wallerstein, South Coast AQMD

Mr. Mel Zeldin, CAPCOAINDEX

PAGE

Item 10-1-1

Chairperson Nichols 3

Executive Officer Goldstene 3

Board Discussion 16

Item 10-1-2

Chairperson Nichols 19

Executive Officer Goldstene 20

Staff Presentation 21

Q&A 32

Mr. Gaines 36

Mr. Zeldin 38

Mr. Wallerstein 43

Mr. Graboski 44

Ms. Pitto 46

Mr. Van Allen 46

Mr. Thomas 48

Mr. Lany 50

Mr. Davis 52

Mr. Mortensson 55

Mr. Fulton 59

Mr. Lewis 61

Mr. Watson 64

Mr. Weiss 66

Board Q&A 68

Ex Partes 85

Motion 85

Vote 92

Item 10-1-3

Chairperson Nichols 93

Executive Officer Goldstene 94

Staff Presentation 95

Mr. Gaines 107

Dr. Brezny 109

Mr. Swenson 112

Board Discussion 115

Motion 116

Vote 116INDEX CONTINUED

PAGE

10-1-5

Chairperson Nichols 118

Executive Officer Goldstene 119

Staff Presentation 120

Mr. Vander Sluis 135

Mr. Jackson 137

10-1-6

Chairperson Nichols 138

Executive Officer Goldstene 138

Staff Presentation 139

Board Q&A 155

10-1-7

Chairperson Nichols 159

Executive Officer Goldstene 160

Staff Presentation 161

Board Q&A 192

Mr. Liss 206

Ms. Coleman 209

Mr. Canete 212

Ms. Rogers 214

Mr. Magavern 216

Ms. Holmes-Gen 218

Ms. Means 221

Ms. Rimland 223

Mr. Katz 226

Mr. Jackson 228

Mr. Nowicki 231

Mr. Gruen 233

Ms. Senecal 236

Mr. Osofsky 238

Mr. Walker 240

Mr. Endicott 242

Mr. Lombard 244

Board Q&A 246

Public Comment

Mr. Brown 286

Ms. Reheis-Boyd 289

Mr. Partransky 293

Ms. Plowman 295

Adjournment 304

Reporter's Certificate 3051

1 PROCEEDINGS

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Welcome to the January

3 28th, 2010, public meeting of the Air R esources Board.

4 The meeting will come to order. And we will begin, as we

5 normally do, by saying the Pledge of Al legiance to the

6 flag.

7 (Thereupon the Pledge of Alleg iance was

8 Recited in unison.)

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: The Cler k will call the

10 roll, please.

11 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Dr. Bal mes?

12 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: Here.

13 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. Ber g?

14 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Here.

15 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. D'A damo?

16 Ms. Kennard?

17 Mayor Loveridge?

18 Mrs. Riordan?

19 Supervisor Roberts?

20 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Here.

21 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Profess or Sperling?

22 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: Here.

23 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Dr. Tel les?

24 Supervisor Yeager?

25 BOARD MEMBER YEAGER: Here.2

1 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: And Cha irman Nichols?

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Here.

3 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Madam C hair, we have a

4 quorum.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

6 We have several members who ha ve called to tell

7 us they're struggling to get here throu gh the fog. So we

8 expect our numbers to increase as the d ay goes on.

9 One of our Board members calle d last night and

10 said she was ill, so we want to send ou r best wishes to

11 Barbara Riordan and hope she has a spee dy recovery and

12 that it's not anything worse than a col d.

13 I have a couple of announcemen ts that I need to

14 make. One is the reminder that the eme rgency exits are at

15 the rear of the room and that's the way we are to exit in

16 the event of a fire alarm. We're suppo sed to go outside,

17 downstairs, and outside the building un til we get the

18 all-clear signal.

19 Also if there's anybody here w ho's not familiar

20 with our procedures, if you want to tes tify on any item or

21 to speak during the open session, we ne ed you to fill out

22 a card and give it to the clerk of the Board. And we will

23 impose our usual three-minute time limi t on speakers. So

24 it makes more sense if you're planning to speak if you can

25 give us your written remarks so that we can read them, but3

1 then just summarize them quickly to kee p within the

2 three-minute limit.

3 And beyond that, I think we're going to begin

4 this morning with a report and an overv iew by the

5 Executive Officer on the program priori ties for the

6 upcoming year. Kind of a good way to s tart the new year

7 off is to focus on the overall agenda f or the year.

8 And before I turn it over to M r. Goldstene, I

9 want to comment that in the front row h ere today of the

10 staff that's in front of us, we have fo r the first time

11 appearing as the successor to the not d eparted but retired

12 Mike Scheible and taking up all of the myriad of

13 responsibilities, Bob Fletcher. So wel come, Bob.

14 All right. So for the first a genda item, Mr.

15 Goldstene, will you please begin the re view of what I

16 expect, to put it mildly, is going to b e a busy year?

17 (Thereupon an overhead present ation was

18 presented as follows.)

19 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Thank you, Chairman

20 Nichols.

21 At the start, I'll take a few minutes to review

22 last year's major accomplishments and m ove on to this

23 year's highest priorities. Of course, there is a lot

24 going on that we must do this year to m eet a variety of

25 state and federal requirements.4

1 While I won't take the time to go through

2 everything we're doing, it's important to recognize the

3 broad scope of the technical, legal, an d policy work that

4 goes on to support our program.

5 --o0o--

6 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: In the climate

7 change arena in 2009, we can characteri ze last year as the

8 year in which we moved from planning to action. The Board

9 adopted the Low-Carbon Fuel Standard fo r transportation

10 fuels and seven other regulations to re duce greenhouse gas

11 emissions.

12 We also adopted the fee regula tion authorized by

13 AB 32 to provide the necessary program resources.

14 The rules the Board has alread y adopted only one

15 year after approving the AB 32 Scoping Plan achieve almost

16 half the reductions needed to meet the 2020 emissions

17 target.

18 In 2009, the Board also took a ction to reduce

19 toxic air contaminants and ozone levels when it adopted

20 new emission limits for several categor ies of consumer

21 products. These amendments broke new g round by reducing

22 smog-forming gases from consumer produc ts and

23 simultaneously establishing a cap on th e use of high

24 global warming ingredients in these pro ducts.

25 --o0o--5

1 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Last year, the

2 Board supported the distribution of a v ariety of incentive

3 funds for the purchase and development of clean

4 technologies. The Board revised its gu idelines for the

5 use and distribution of Proposition 1B goods movement

6 funds, as well as the Carl Moyer Progra m guidelines.

7 The Board also adopted funding guidelines for the

8 distribution of $50 million provided by Assembly Bill 118.

9 Like the other incentive programs, the AB 118 Air Quality

10 Improvement Program is designed to redu ce both criteria

11 and toxic pollutants from motor vehicle s. These AQIP

12 funds can also be used to support relat ed research

13 efforts, especially research related to the development of

14 alternative fuels.

15 --o0o--

16 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: ARB staff was also

17 busy implementing recently adopted regu lations in 2009.

18 Californians started to see air quality benefits from the

19 Board's Goods Movement Emission Reducti on Plan, as several

20 of the pioneering rules in that plan to ok effect.

21 The clean fuels and shore powe r requirements for

22 ships became effective in 2009, as did the first phase of

23 the retrofit or replacement requirement s for the drayage

24 trucks that service the ports and inter modal rail yards.

25 These rules are now reducing toxic part iculates in the6

1 communities near the ports and helping us meet regional

2 air quality goals for ozone and fine pa rticulates.

3 The first phase of emissions s tandards for

4 transport refrigeration units on trucks also took effect.

5 This rule will reduce diesel emissions throughout the

6 state.

7 The Board staff has continued to work to reduce

8 rail yard emissions. ARB staff release d its report on

9 options for further reducing emissions from locomotives

10 and is now refining its recommendations according to the

11 Board's direction.

12 ARB staff also secured an $8.9 million federal

13 grant that will be used to retrofit ele ven switch

14 locomotives operating in California wit h new cleaner

15 engines.

16 --o0o--

17 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We also made

18 progress in several other programs. Th e first phase of

19 the Board's composite wood products reg ulation took effect

20 in 2009, limiting the levels of formald ehyde that can be

21 emitted from new products sold in Calif ornia. This

22 regulation is important for reducing to xic emissions both

23 indoors and outdoors. It has had a nat ional and

24 international impact as well, since man y manufacturers are

25 now producing only ARB-compliant materi als.7

1 The enhanced vapor recovery re gulations for

2 gasoline service stations also took eff ect last year.

3 Working closely with local districts, w e were able to

4 ensure that implementation of this rule , which was

5 originally adopted in 2000, went smooth ly. And we are

6 seeing a very high compliance rate with that rule.

7 California's largest industria l greenhouse gas

8 emitters reported their emissions for t he first time in

9 2009. And electricity retail providers and marketers

10 reported their electricity transaction information. We

11 have a 97 percent compliance rate with this new rule and

12 we're working closely with other states , the National

13 Climate Registry, and U.S. EPA on the d evelopment of a

14 national reporting program.

15 Throughout the year, ARB also worked closely with

16 local air districts and have reviewed a nd processed

17 hundreds of applications for Propositio n 1B and Carl Moyer

18 program grants. These programs can hel p the owners of

19 older trucks and off-road equipment ret rofit, upgrade, or

20 replace their polluting equipment.

21 --o0o--

22 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Now moving on to

23 our plans for 2010.

24 This year the Board will consi der a number of key

25 rulemakings to address both public heal th and climate8

1 issues.

2 This slide provides an overvie w of the most

3 complex and significant rulemakings the Board will

4 consider this year, beginning with the proposed amendments

5 to the truck and bus rule to reflect th e emissions impact

6 of the economic downturn.

7 Later this year, we will recom mend major

8 rulemakings to ensure that passenger ve hicles of the

9 future will be even cleaner than today, and support

10 long-term greenhouse gas reduction goal s.

11 By July, we are to develop a r enewable

12 electricity standard as outlined in Gov ernor

13 Schwarzenegger's September 2009 Executi ve Order. And in

14 the fall, staff will propose a cap and trade rule.

15 --o0o--

16 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Disbursing Prop. 1B

17 bond funds and other incentive dollars as quickly as

18 possible is essential to accelerating a ir quality progress

19 by cleaning up diesel emissions. These expenditures are

20 especially important to single owner/op erators and many

21 small fleets which have been given more time to comply

22 with ARB's diesel regulations.

23 As part of this effort, Board Member Berg is

24 guiding the review of the Carl Moyer Pr ogram incentive

25 program that is designed to ensure that this 12-year-old9

1 program will continue to provide mobile source emission

2 reductions into the future. The goal o f this review is to

3 reflect newly adopted regulations and c hanges in the

4 economy, to bring more sources into the 12-year-old

5 program, and to increase the program's flexibility.

6 Another major item the Board w ill consider is the

7 adoption of regional greenhouse gas emi ssion targets for

8 local transportation planning agencies, as required by SB

9 375. Staff is making good use of the S B 375 Advisory

10 Committee recommendations that were pre sented to the Board

11 last November.

12 Another priority is to continu e working closely

13 with the Western Climate Initiative on regional cap and

14 trade greenhouse gas reduction programs in the Midwest and

15 in the northeast. In the absence of na tional action,

16 representatives of these three programs have been meeting

17 regularly to discuss options for linkin g these programs

18 together. In addition, we are collabor ating with U.S. EPA

19 staff on a number of greenhouse gas red uction strategies,

20 including vehicles, fuels, and high glo bal warming

21 potential pollutants.

22 We are also working with our p artner state

23 agencies on the Governor's third Climat e Change Summit,

24 which will take place this fall.

25 And this year, we will continu e our efforts to10

1 improve our Enforcement Program, which you'll hear more

2 about later today.

3 Lastly, we must address a numb er of federal Clean

4 Air Act issues related to air quality p lanning, including

5 what we hope will be federal approval o f the 2007 and 2008

6 SIPS.

7 --o0o--

8 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: To follow up on

9 direction from the December Board meeti ng, staff is

10 preparing a new report on the health ef fects of

11 particulate matter pollution. The repo rt will be released

12 for public comment and undergo an indep endent peer review.

13 On February 26, ARB will hold a public PM2.5

14 science symposium on the subject. Chai rman Nichols and

15 other Board members will attend to hear the discussion.

16 Staff recently held three work shops to solicit

17 comment on possible amendments to the t ruck and bus rule

18 in the context of the Board's direction in December. A

19 public hearing on these amendments is s cheduled for April.

20 Also, in April, staff will pro vide an

21 informational update on the effect of r educed economic

22 activity on emissions from construction and other off-road

23 equipment, and we'll have a more compre hensive review in

24 July.

25 As you can see, staff's updati ng the Board11

1 frequently this year on the status of o ur diesel rules and

2 the impact of the economy on emissions. And we also will

3 provide updates on the financial incent ive programs I

4 mentioned earlier as we go through the year.

5 --o0o--

6 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: 2010 will be a

7 significant year for California's passe nger vehicle

8 programs. Staff is developing new requ irements affecting

9 our low-emission vehicle, Pavley, and z ero-emission

10 vehicle regulations.

11 One proposal would strengthen the Pavley

12 greenhouse gas fleet standards for 2012 through 2016, as

13 well as strengthening the low-emission standards. This

14 rule will integrate our efforts to redu ce greenhouse

15 gases, ozone-forming pollutants, partic ulate matter, and

16 toxics.

17 Another rulemaking is a revamp ing of the Zero

18 Emission Vehicle Program primarily to m eet greenhouse gas

19 reduction targets into the future.

20 And we hope that last year's R ose Garden

21 commitments between the Obama administr ation, automakers,

22 and ARB set the stage for continued coo peration with the

23 auto industry and the federal governmen t. It is important

24 that we continue to coordinate with our federal

25 counterparts on standards for both vehi cles and fuels so12

1 we can maximize emission reductions in California and the

2 rest of the nation.

3 --o0o--

4 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: One important

5 element of our Scoping Plan is increasi ng the use of

6 renewable energy used to meet Californi a's electricity

7 needs.

8 Last year, the Legislature pas sed a bill that

9 would have changed the renewable portfo lio standard from

10 20 percent to 33 percent to meet the Sc oping Plan goals.

11 The Governor vetoed that bill because o f some of its other

12 provisions.

13 With the Executive Order that I referred to

14 earlier, the Governor directed ARB to a dopt a regulation

15 requiring the state's electricity provi ders to meet a 33

16 percent renewable energy target by 2020 . The rule is to

17 be adopted by July 31st of this year. We are working

18 closely with the Public Utilities Commi ssion, Energy

19 Commission, and Cal ISO in developing t his proposal.

20 We've held two workshops and r eceived public

21 comments on concept paper as well as pr oposed approaches

22 for economic, technical, and environmen tal analysis. And

23 a third workshop will be held next week

.

24 Given the accelerated rulemaki ng schedule, staff

25 will brief the Board on the status of t his item at our13

1 March meeting. In addition, we will ke ep the Board

2 apprised of any legislative action that may occur.

3 --o0o--

4 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: This year's climate

5 change priorities are the renewable ele ctricity standard,

6 which I just mentioned, and the cap and trade regulations.

7 ARB staff is developing a cap and trade proposal that

8 would establish a declining cap to ensu re emission

9 reductions, while providing compliance flexibility through

10 trading of allowances and offsets.

11 We released a preliminary draf t regulation late

12 last year to help focus the public disc ussion. Earlier

13 this month, the Economic and Allocation Advisory Committee

14 released its draft recommendations for the distribution

15 and evaluation of greenhouse gas allowa nce created under

16 this program. The Committee will discu ss its

17 recommendations at the March meeting.

18 Staff has held numerous worksh ops and met with

19 many experts and stakeholders throughou t the development

20 of this proposal. This outreach and co nsultation will

21 continue as we prepare the proposed reg ulation for the

22 Board's consideration in October.

23 As the rule is being developed , staff is also

24 proposing revisions to our current mand atory reporting

25 regulation so that it will meet the nee ds of a Cap and14

1 Trade Program. And to avoid duplicatio n, this update will

2 also be used to align our requirements with the new

3 federal reporting requirements to meet our AB 32 program

4 needs.

5 --o0o--

6 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: AB 375 was landmark

7 legislation that aligns planning effort s for regional land

8 use, transportation, housing, and green house gas

9 reductions. The Board's consideration of regional

10 greenhouse gas reduction targets has th e potential to

11 achieve significant reductions through sustainable land

12 use and transportation planning.

13 Staff is working with metropol itan planning

14 agencies, or MPOs, to explore the green house gas impacts

15 of different planning scenarios and to share the

16 information needed to set targets. Thi s has been a very

17 good process so far. And moving forwar d, staff will be

18 holding workshops throughout the state over the next few

19 months.

20 Staff will propose draft targe ts by June for

21 public comment and the Board will consi der final targets

22 in September.

23 A number of Board members have particular

24 interest and expertise in this subject, and we look

25 forward to your guidance as we proceed to develop draft15

1 targets for your consideration.

2 --o0o--

3 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We will be taking

4 on this year's agenda amid significant fiscal, economic,

5 and legal challenges. The state of the economy and the

6 pace of California's recovery will be a consideration

7 every step of the way. As staff, we wi ll do our best to

8 provide you with the most complete and accurate

9 information possible.

10 From a staffing perspective, t he state budget

11 will continue to limit the resources av ailable to deliver

12 on these program priorities. We expect a three-day per

13 month furlough to continue through June as proposed in the

14 Governor's budget and to be replaced wi th a five percent

15 cut in personnel expenditures.

16 This year's priorities reflect what must be done

17 to meet our public health and AB 32 goa ls. Staff

18 recognizes that how we go about it is i mportant. We will

19 strive to ensure transparency and the c omprehensive public

20 processes that have been an ARB hallmar k over the years.

21 The Chairman's Offices of Legislation, Communications, and

22 the Ombudsman are working harder than e ver to expand our

23 outreach efforts and to address questio ns raised in the

24 press and elsewhere.

25 We greatly appreciate the lead ership of each of16

1 our Board members and look forward to a challenging and

2 productive year.

3 Thank you.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u, Mr. Goldstene.

5 Before we get into a general d iscussion, are

6 there any questions about any of the sp ecific items that

7 were raised there as part of our 2010 a genda?

8 Obviously, those are the high level issues.

9 There will be numerous, I suspect, of t he normal updates

10 and changes to existing rules and proce sses that are part

11 of what the Board does.

12 But in terms of the overview, I thought it was

13 really useful to have the staff's roadm ap, if you will,

14 for what sometimes feels like it's goin g to be a long

15 journey through 2010.

16 You know, I might just add tha t we have had -- we

17 have enjoyed tremendous support from th e Governor for the

18 ARB and our work, since I've been here at least. And I'd

19 like to say that, you know, from what I have seen in every

20 way possible, you know, in a very tough and challenging

21 budget time and also in a time when the re's a great deal

22 of backlash and resistance against gove rnment in all

23 forms, some of which has been focused v ery specifically at

24 our Board and our programs, the Governo r has really taken

25 it upon himself personally to be an adv ocate for the17

1 importance of the work that we do.

2 And just as I think a lot of u s were waiting

3 somewhat breathlessly last night to see if President Obama

4 would mention his support for doing som ething about

5 climate change, and we're very pleased to hear that high

6 up in his remarks was an affirmation of the need to focus

7 on energy and on climate, we're seeing the same thing here

8 in California.

9 Obviously, we all have to be s mart about what we

10 do and how we do it. We all have to be careful not to do

11 things that either really don't make se nse or that are in

12 any way unduly burdensome and to try to find ways to make

13 sure that we speak about what we're doi ng in ways that are

14 more comprehensible to people than I th ink often we end up

15 doing when we are caught up in our dail y rounds of jargon

16 and our scientific expertise shows, but maybe not our

17 awareness, of the things that people ac tually care about.

18 So I'm actually thinking it's going to be a year

19 of an enormous amount of accomplishment , but I don't want

20 to minimize the effort it's going to ta ke to get from here

21 to there.

22 And I'd just like to echo Jame s's comments about

23 the Board. As the only person who gets paid to work here

24 full time, sometimes, you know, I know, too, the

25 Legislature think I'm the one they can point to whenever18

1 there is anything that they would like to see changed or

2 done differently. But I'm very well aw are of the fact

3 that in many parts of the state, in man y communities and

4 constituencies, the face of the ARB is in fact the

5 individual Board members.

6 And I'm only aware, I'm sure, of a small portion

7 of what you all do, when I hear about i t through Charlyn

8 because of speech requests or meetings that you're

9 outdoing or if you happen to call to ch eck in with me or

10 give me good advice, which a few of you do from time to

11 time and which I really appreciate, eve n if I don't seem

12 grateful at the time.

13 (Laughter)

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So with that, I would like

15 to say how pleased I am that we've had the activity that

16 we've had on the part of the Board memb ers.

17 And if any of you feel incline d in the coming

18 year to take on more assignments, and p articularly with

19 respect to fulfilling some of the invit ations that we get

20 to go out and speak with groups around the state about

21 what we're doing, I am very happy and I know the staff

22 will be very happy to have you involved

.

23 So with that, I'll open it up for any comments,

24 questions, remarks, speeches.

25 Okay. If you don't feel like weighing in right19

1 now, that's okay, too, I guess.

2 Dr. Sperling, you looked like you were about to

3 say something. I'll call on you.

4 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: I don' t have anything of

5 great profoundness to say.

6 But I do support what you just said that this is

7 going to be an important year for us. And as I looked at

8 that list that James was providing us, it was pretty

9 overwhelming, the amount of actions tha t we're going to be

10 contemplating. And it is a difficult t ime.

11 I've just always been impresse d with ARB with the

12 leadership of the staff and Chairman Ni chols and the

13 Board.

14 And I think I would echo what Chairman Nichols

15 said is I think we are all sensitive to what's happening

16 with the state of the economy and the j obs and so on, but

17 at the same time, how important Califor nia has been in

18 leadership with a lot of issues in air pollution and

19 climate change now. So it's going to b e an interesting

20 year.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: That's f or sure.

22 All right. If no one else fee ls moved to add, I

23 appreciate that. And we'll just move o n to the next item.

24 Welcome, Dr. Telles.

25 So the next item is the propos ed amendments to20

1 the regulations applicable to portable equipment and

2 diesel engines used in off-road and on- road vehicles.

3 Mr. Goldstene.

4 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Thank you, Chairman

5 Nichols.

6 The major purpose of today's p roposed amendments

7 is to provide temporary relief for busi nesses that operate

8 smaller fleets of portable engines.

9 Under existing regulations, th e oldest and

10 dirtiest portable engines must be repla ced by January 1st,

11 2010. The proposed amendments provide a one-year

12 extension for a limited number of porta ble engines. While

13 providing some relief for about 90 perc ent of the

14 companies that operate older portable e ngines, the staff

15 proposal still retains about 70 percent of the first year

16 benefits.

17 In addition, staff is proposin g to move water

18 well drilling rigs out of the portable engine ATCM and the

19 regulation for heavy-duty on-road vehic les and instead

20 make them subject to the in-use on-road vehicle

21 regulation, just as was previously done for cranes.

22 The replacement of the portabl e engine on these

23 rigs is extremely difficult and cost pr ohibitive. This

24 proposed move would allow owners of the drilling rigs more

25 flexibility for complying with requirem ents, while still21

1 achieving the emission reductions for d iesel PM and oxides

2 of nitrogen.

3 The proposed amendments provid e a balanced

4 approach that allows businesses to cont inue to operate

5 while achieving the emission reductions needed to protect

6 public health.

7 I'd like now to ask Mr. Joseph Gormley of the

8 Stationary Source Division to present t he staff's

9 proposal.

10 Joseph.

11 (Thereupon an overhead present ation was

12 presented as follows.)

13 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Thank you, Mr.

14 Goldstene.

15 Good morning, Chairman Nichols and members of the

16 Board.

17 --o0o--

18 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : This slide

19 presents an overview of the topics I wi ll cover in today's

20 presentation.

21 --o0o--

22 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : First, I have a

23 brief overview of today's proposed amen dments.

24 --o0o--

25 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Today, staff is22

1 proposing amendments that would extend the deadline for

2 replacing some older high-emitting engi nes by one year.

3 This will provide some economic relief for the owners of

4 smaller fleets.

5 Staff is also proposing to mak e water well

6 drilling rigs with two engines subject to the requirements

7 of the regulation for in-use off-road d iesel vehicles.

8 This move will also provide relief to o wners of water well

9 drilling rigs from the Tier 0 engine re placement

10 requirement.

11 In addition, staff is proposin g some amendments

12 that would provide additional clarity t o the regulations

13 and assist with the implementation of t he statewide

14 registration program.

15 The proposed amendments were d esigned to provide

16 relief for most of the owners of uncert ified engines,

17 while retaining about 70 percent of the emission reduction

18 benefits.

19 This relief is provided in rec ognition of the

20 fact that there has likely been a reduc tion in the use of

21 these engines due to the economy.

22 --o0o--

23 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : The proposed

24 amendments affect several ARB regulatio ns. The next set

25 of slides briefly describe these regula tions and provide23

1 some additional background information.

2 --o0o--

3 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Portable engines

4 are used to provide power to generators , pumps,

5 compressors, and a variety of other equ ipment used in

6 industrial and construction activities.

7 --o0o--

8 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : The portable

9 equipment registration program regulati ons established a

10 voluntary registration program for port able engines and

11 equipment units. If an owner chooses t o register in PERP,

12 they may operate that portable equipmen t statewide without

13 obtaining a separate permit in each air district.

14 Although the Air Resources Boa rd issues the

15 registration, the local air districts p rovide the primary

16 enforcement for the program.

17 The PERP regulation was adopte d in March of 1997

18 and started accepting applications late r that same year.

19 --o0o--

20 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : When the PERP

21 regulation was originally adopted in 19 97, it contained a

22 requirement that all Tier 0 engines mus t be removed or

23 replaced by January 1, 2010, which effe ctively gave

24 registered businesses a maximum of 13 y ears to plan for

25 replacement.24

1 At the time, this replacement requirement only

2 affected engines registered in PERP. T he PERP regulation

3 also requires that registered Tier 0 sp ark ignition

4 engines be removed from service by Janu ary 1, 2010.

5 --o0o--

6 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : The air-borne

7 toxic control measure for portable dies el engines came

8 about as a result of the Diesel Risk Re duction Plan, which

9 the Board adopted in September of 2000. It is designed to

10 achieve particulate matter emission red uctions from

11 portable diesel engines through three m ain mechanisms:

12 First, it mandates the replace ment of older

13 higher-emitting engines by January 1, 2 010.

14 Second, it sets eligibility re quirements for

15 newly permitted or registered engines.

16 And third, it establishes flee t emission

17 standards which take effect later this decade.

18 These requirements are applica ble to all portable

19 diesel engines, whether registered in P ERP or permitted by

20 the local air districts. The Board ado pted the ATCM in

21 February of 2004, and it became effecti ve in March of

22 2005.

23 The portable ATCM differs from the other diesel

24 engine regulations in that it requires the replacement of

25 all older higher emitting engines by a specific date. The25

1 other diesel relations require a phase- out of older

2 engines over several years.

3 --o0o--

4 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : The requirement

5 to replace Tier 0 engines is a key comp onent of the

6 Board's strategy to reduce the emission s of toxic

7 particulate matter from portable diesel engines.

8 Currently, there are about 440 0 Tier 0 engines

9 either registered with ARB or permitted by the local air

10 districts that are affected by this req uirement. We want

11 people to replace their older Tier 0 en gines with newer

12 certified engines, because the newer en gines have

13 significantly lower emissions, as shown by the graphs on

14 the next two slides.

15 --o0o--

16 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : This graph

17 compares the particulate matter emissio n rates from

18 uncertified engines to emission standar ds that certified

19 engines must meet. You can see from th is graph the Tier 0

20 engines have significantly higher emiss ions than certified

21 engines.

22 --o0o--

23 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : This graph

24 similarly compares the emissions of NOx from uncertified

25 engines to the emissions standard for c ertified engines.26

1 As shown by these two graphs, the overall

2 emission levels from portable engines d ecrease with each

3 new tier. This is why we structured th e regulation for

4 portable engines to require that indust ry to have the

5 newest tier available when seeking a ne w permit or

6 registration.

7 --o0o--

8 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : The regulations

9 for in-use heavy-duty off-road and on-r oad diesel-fueled

10 vehicles are the most recent regulation s to be adopted as

11 a result of the Diesel Risk Reduction P lan.

12 The off-road regulation was ad opted by the Board

13 in 2007 and was recently amended to inc lude requirements

14 for two-engine cranes.

15 The on-road regulation was ado pted by the Board

16 in December of 2008 and became effectiv e earlier this

17 month.

18 Our proposed amendments today only affect these

19 two regulations as they apply to two-en gine water well

20 drilling rigs.

21 --o0o--

22 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : With that

23 background, let's take a closer look at what we are

24 proposing.

25 --o0o--27

1 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Several of the

2 owners of smaller fleets indicated that they experienced

3 difficulty with the requirement to repl ace Tier 0 engines

4 by January 1, 2010. So staff is propos ing to provide a

5 limited extension for these engines. T he extension will

6 be available to smaller fleets which co ntain no more than

7 25 portable engines as of December 31st , 2009.

8 If an owner of portable engine s qualifies for the

9 extension, they must then choose either one engine of any

10 size or up to five engines that do not exceed 500

11 cumulative brake horsepower. The engin es selected for the

12 extension may then operate until the en d of 2010.

13 The extension is not being pro posed for fleet

14 owners with more than 25 portable engin es. These larger

15 companies generally have access to more resources, and

16 they typically have smaller percentages of uncertified

17 engines in their fleet. Therefore, the y are not as

18 severely affected by the Tier 0 replace ment deadline.

19 In an effort to preserve as mu ch of the original

20 emission reductions as possible, ARB st aff proposes the

21 extension only for the companies that n eed it in most.

22 --o0o--

23 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Under this

24 proposal, approximately 2,000 engines m ay potentially

25 receive the temporary operating extensi on. The proposed28

1 extension maintains at least 70 percent of the original

2 emission reduction benefits from the Ti er 0 engine

3 replacement requirement. The full emis sion reductions

4 will be achieved once the extension per iod ends at the end

5 of 2010.

6 It is important to note that t he estimates do not

7 include any adjustments based on change s due to economic

8 conditions. The emission reduction est imate is based on

9 the number of currently permitted or re gistered portable

10 engines and the requirements of the exi sting regulations.

11 --o0o--

12 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Some of the

13 additional amendments staff are proposi ng include allowing

14 engines certified to the on-road emissi on standards to

15 operate after January 2010 if they are used as portable.

16 The current portable engine AT CM requires these

17 engines to be placed out of service the same way that Tier

18 0 engines are. It makes sense to allow these engines to

19 continue operating because they are cle an certified

20 engines.

21 As stated previously, the port able engine ATCM

22 does settle eligibility requirements fo r engines seeking a

23 new permit. Currently, the portable en gine ATCM and PERP

24 regulation allow only diesel engines ce rtified to the

25 off-road emission standards to obtain e ither a permit or29

1 registration. Because engines certifie d to the on-road or

2 marine standards are sometimes used in portable

3 operations, staff is proposing to allow these engines to

4 be eligible for district permits or reg istration in PERP.

5 --o0o--

6 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Staff is also

7 proposing some modifications to the rec ordkeeping and

8 reporting requirements contained in the PERP regulation.

9 Because certified engines are not subje ct to any hourly

10 operating restrictions, staff is propos ing to remove the

11 requirement for tracking hours of opera tion and reporting

12 of annual hours of use for these engine s.

13 To improve the enforceability of the requirement

14 that portable equipment not reside at a location for more

15 than 12 consecutive months, staff is pr oposing that the

16 specific location of all registered eng ines and equipment

17 units be recorded no less than once a m onth. Currently,

18 only the county or air district has to be recorded for

19 location.

20 Staff is also proposing to rem ove the requirement

21 in the PERP regulation that equipment d ealers provide a

22 list to the Air Resources Board of all portable engines

23 sold in California. Because PERP is a voluntary program,

24 staff believes it is not appropriate to have a mandatory

25 notification requirement for equipment that is not yet30

1 registered. And it has not proven to b e a useful

2 mechanism to track equipment that may n eed a permit.

3 And, finally, we are making so me minor wording

4 changes for clarity, which will improve the implementation

5 of the portable engine ATCM and statewi de registration

6 program.

7 --o0o--

8 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Finally, I would

9 like to discuss why we are proposing to amend the off-road

10 and on-road diesel vehicle registration

.

11 Currently, water well drilling regs are covered

12 by two regulations: The portable engin e ATCM for the deck

13 engine and the on-road vehicle regulati ons for the truck

14 engine.

15 The California Groundwater Ass ociation has

16 indicated that replacing the portable T ier 0 deck engine

17 on two-engine water well drilling rigs as required by the

18 portable engine ATCM is extremely diffi cult. Our analysis

19 showed that these rigs face many of the same cost and

20 safety issues with engine replacement a s with two-engine

21 cranes. Therefore, staff is proposing to move these

22 two-engine water well drilling rigs int o the off-road

23 regulation, just as was done with two-e ngine cranes in

24 previous amendments.

25 Under this proposal, both the drive engine and31

1 the portable deck engine will be subjec t to the

2 requirements of the off-road regulation and must be

3 reported into the diesel off-road on-li ne reporting

4 system. The deck engines still technic ally meet the

5 definition of portable and may be subje ct to district

6 permitting requirements. Therefore, un der this proposal,

7 the deck engine will remain eligible fo r registration in

8 PERP.

9 --o0o--

10 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Before we move

11 on to discuss future actions, there is one issue that we

12 would like to bring to your attention. Currently, the

13 portable engine ATCM does not allow the permitting or

14 registration of Tier 1 or Tier 2 portab le engines if they

15 have been found to be operating illegal ly.

16 To facilitate enforcement, the local air

17 districts have requested that we amend the ATCM to allow

18 the permitting of these engines.

19 As we have not yet reached an agreement on an

20 appropriate mechanism or proposed regul atory language, we

21 would like to continue to work with CAP COA on this issue

22 to explore those options and may propos e a regulatory

23 solution as part of a 15-day change, if necessary.

24 --o0o--

25 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : If the32

1 amendments are approved today, we will conduct outreach

2 activities to inform people of the new changes, which

3 include dedicating resources to assist the public with

4 questions and applications, updating fo lks on our website,

5 and sending out informational fliers to members of

6 affected industry that may be subject t o the new

7 requirements.

8 Once the amendments are effect ive, we will start

9 processing the applications for engines that are affected

10 by the new requirements.

11 --o0o--

12 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Finally, we move

13 on to staff's recommendation.

14 --o0o--

15 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Staff recommends

16 that you adopt the proposed amendments.

17 Thank you. That concludes my presentation.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. T hank you very much.

19 We have a list of ten witnesse s here, so I think

20 we'll just begin with those, unless any body has any

21 comments or questions. Okay.

22 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: When I r ead this, it wasn't

23 clear to me what the emissions reductio n inventory is for

24 the sector. How big of emissions is th is that we're

25 talking about?33

1 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Well, the total

2 population of engines registered in PER P currently is

3 about 30,000 engines, a little less tha n that. And that's

4 just private sector. The military has about 5,000 more

5 than that.

6 The only engines that are affe cted by the Tier 0

7 engine replacement requirement is just over 5,000. Some

8 of those can be designated as emergency use. So when you

9 really look at it, it's only about 4400 engines that are

10 actually subject to be replaced by the end of last year.

11 That's the total scope of the proposed amendments.

12 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: That's t he number being

13 replaced. What's the actual emissions? How many NOx and

14 PM?

15 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Oh, we have

16 that.

17 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: The

18 total emissions in 2009 are estimated t o be about 115 tons

19 a day of NOx statewide and about somewh ere around ten tons

20 a day -- nine to ten tons a day of PM. So it's a pretty

21 significant amount.

22 To put it in perspective, in t he San Joaquin

23 Valley, probably about -- I would guess -- probably 30 to

24 40 of those tons in the San Joaquin Val ley. So this is a

25 big category. Tier 0 represents about 40 percent of those34

1 emissions.

2 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Okay. A nd what's the total

3 cost to the industry as far as doing th is 30 percent

4 replacement?

5 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Well, with the

6 2,000 engines that would normally have to be replaced that

7 we're giving relief to, the cost delay is about $66

8 million.

9 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: All righ t. And you said

10 there wasn't an estimate of the reducti on of emissions

11 based on -- surplus reduction of emissi ons based on the

12 decrease in economy. Do you have any e stimate of that?

13 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : We have not

14 performed that analysis.

15 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Have you performed any

16 analysis of how many jobs would be lost if you do this?

17 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: Well,

18 two comments on that.

19 The first, if you assume that the construction

20 industry might be a surrogate for these , because many of

21 the engines are used in construction-ty pe industries, that

22 would be a 30 percent or so reduction.

23 So, for example, on the PM sid e, instead of 3,000

24 tons a year, it would be around 2100 to ns a year.

25 So if you consider that the Ti er 0 engines35

1 themselves account for 40 percent of th e emissions, then

2 there is sort of a situation where if a ll of those Tier 0

3 engines were to operate, then we would probably be about

4 where we were in 2009. That is, we wou ld see no emission

5 reductions associated with this measure

.

6 What makes it difficult to est imate is that we're

7 not sure how many of the Tier 0 engines have already been

8 replaced. When we estimated the cost t o replace those

9 engines of 66 million, that assumes tha t all of those Tier

10 0s have not already been replaced.

11 And the way that the Portable Engine Registration

12 Program is set up, those engines are re gistered in the

13 program, but there is no requirement on ce they're replaced

14 to notify us they've been replaced. Th e registration

15 essentially expires on that date. So w e expect that many

16 of these engines have already been repl aced.

17 On the second question in term s of jobs, the

18 impact of our proposed change is actual ly to make many of

19 these engines in the smaller fleets 25 or less. You can

20 now operate five or more of those engin es. So we would

21 expect -- we haven't estimated what the job impacts are,

22 but a thousand -- or roughly 1100 compa nies of the 1200

23 companies that still have Tier 0 engine s are now eligible

24 for some relief. And of those, I think 900 companies get

25 full relief. So it should have a posit ive impact on jobs.36

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Did that respond to your

2 question?

3 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Yes.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. W e'll start with our

5 first witness. And I'll give you the n ext three in order

6 so people can be prepared to come forwa rd. And as I said

7 before, we will be using our three-minu te rule.

8 So starting with Bill Gaines a nd then Mel Zeldin

9 and Barry Wallerstein.

10 MR. GAINES: Thank you very mu ch.

11 My name is Bill Gaines. I am the Chairman and

12 Senior Engineer at Transfer Flow, Incor porated. I have a

13 degree in mechanical engineering from C alPoly and in fluid

14 dynamics. I have been an engineer at G eneral Motors and

15 now own my own manufacturing company.

16 We've been in the business for 27 years

17 manufacturing fuel systems for the nich e market. And we

18 own 160 CARB executive orders. We have basically been

19 involved in developing and providing or ders for new

20 vehicle, for aftermarket, and for SORE. So we have a very

21 good relationship with CARB. And when we started reading

22 the portable regulations, we found a lo t of areas of

23 concern to us, since we are very famili ar with writing

24 these regulations and trying to meet th em.

25 In our opinion, there was no t hought of37

1 integration when writing these regulati ons. In other

2 fields, you basically have a General Mo tors or Ford or

3 Chrysler that you issue an Executive Or der to. They are

4 literally the integrator for the vehicl e.

5 In this particular scenario, t he diesel

6 particulate filter manufacture is typic ally the person or

7 company that is held to the standard of the Executive

8 Order. They do not typically have the familiarity with

9 designing a complete system. Instead, they are very good

10 at building a diesel particulate filter . The controllers

11 that go along with it, the pressure tra nsducers, the

12 thermal couples, et cetera, all have to work as a family.

13 And we don't believe that that's really been looked at.

14 We do believe -- we are an int egrator and have

15 been doing that again for several years . One of the

16 problems that we see -- I just heard th e testimony that

17 there are 4400 Tier 0 engines that are in the registered

18 program. Well, in Butte County, 49 per cent of the ag

19 portable engines are Tier 0. And so we question that

20 number. And these are registered engin es, by the way.

21 We are finding that the cost o f these engines --

22 these retrofits run from $11,000 to $43 ,000 to bring up a

23 Tier 0 engine to meet current emissions compliance.

24 Just retrofitting the Tier 0 b y our estimates is

25 going to cost, in essence, $290 million . We don't38

1 think -- we question that as well. We believe that if you

2 use the current --

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I'm sorr y. Three minutes

4 is a very short time.

5 Have you met with staff and/or participated in

6 the proceedings up until now and convey ed your information

7 to them?

8 MR. GAINES: No. I have talke d to John Lee and

9 talked to some of your Board members, b ut I have not

10 been -- I've not talked to staff. We g ot involved in this

11 late after the regulations were made.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. W ell, if you have

13 any written information to provide, I w ould really

14 appreciate it if you could further it n ow. And if not,

15 we'll see what we can do.

16 MR. GAINES: Thank you very mu ch.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Mel Zeld in and Barry

18 Wallerstein.

19 MR. ZELDIN: Chairman Nichols, members of the

20 Board, I'm Mel Zeldin, Executive Direct or for the

21 California Air Pollution Control Office rs Association.

22 Good morning.

23 CAPCOA appreciates this opport unity to express

24 our support for the proposed revisions to the portable

25 diesel engine ATCM and PERP regulations . We share ARB's39

1 goals in reducing exposure to diesel pa rticulate and

2 reducing the emissions of ozone-forming NOx pollution from

3 diesel-fueled engines.

4 We recognize, too, that the cu rrent economic

5 conditions would present difficult impl ementation issues.

6 We support the flexibility provided by the proposed

7 revisions and appreciate that the flexi bility is

8 accomplished without giving up signific ant emission

9 reductions.

10 However, there are two yet unr esolved issues with

11 which most but not all of CAPCOA member s have concerns.

12 First, currently, it is illegal to oper ate Tier 1 and Tier

13 2 engines in many districts. If those engines have not

14 been issued a permit or PERP registrati on, this rule

15 revision does not provide a legal mecha nism for operators

16 of previously unpermitted or un-PERPed engines to continue

17 operations after being discovered by di strict enforcement

18 personnel.

19 Secondly, the portable engine ATCM does not

20 contain a prohibition of sale provision which we are

21 concerned that illegal Tier 1 and Tier 2 engines will be

22 sold to unsuspecting buyers in Californ ia by unscrupulous

23 vendors.

24 We would request that you dire ct staff to work

25 with CAPCOA to incorporate these change s in the 15-day40

1 comment period, and we're glad to see s taff's willingness

2 to do so.

3 In summary, CAPCOA supports th e revisions before

4 you today, and we thank ARB staff for w orking with us

5 during this process. Thank you.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u for your

7 testimony.

8 Could I just ask you one quest ion? I'm sorry

9 maybe I don't understand the issue. Bu t why wouldn't

10 somebody who was cited and found to hav e an unpermitted

11 engine just get a permit?

12 MR. ZELDIN: As I understand i t that they can't

13 get a permit. They're in violation of the ATCM so --

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: They wou ld never get it.

15 MR. ZELDIN: By state law, if they're in

16 violation, they can't get a permit.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Right. Okay. I get it.

18 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Chairman N ichols, I do have a

19 follow-up question.

20 It's my understanding they had an opportunity and

21 we gave an extension to register those Tier 0 engines. So

22 now if anybody was found, they would no t be able to use

23 them now.

24 MR. ZELDIN: As it stands now, there's no relief

25 other than just --41

1 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Do not use . But that was the

2 intent of the regulation was my underst anding.

3 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: Let

4 me clarify this a little bit. There's a couple things in

5 play.

6 One is the extension we're pro posing applies to

7 engines that are already in the program

.

8 I think what Mel is talking ab out has to do with

9 engines that are not registered and are not permitted. So

10 they're currently operating illegally.

11 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I understa nd that, but we've

12 had this conversation a couple of times to my memory. And

13 so it sounds to me now that we're consi dering or we're

14 being asked to consider to allow unregi stered --

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Illegal.

16 BOARD MEMBER BERG: -- illegal engines to come

17 into the program for a third time. We' ve already done it

18 originally and we gave an extension.

19 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: And

20 that's what we're trying to avoid. As Mr. Gormley said in

21 the presentation, we want to continue t he discussion with

22 CAPCOA on this.

23 Our view is we do not want to provide a fourth

24 amnesty period for engines that have no t registered or

25 have not been permitted in the program.42

1 And the issue really has to do with how do you

2 affect an enforcement action against en gines that are

3 found to be operating illegally?

4 And there is a difference of o pinion right now in

5 terms of how an abatement order would w ork. And some of

6 the districts believe an abatement orde r, the way that

7 they have traditionally done abatement orders, the first

8 thing they do in an abatement order is bring the engine

9 under permit so it can operate. So it' s really a very

10 limited --

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Regulato ry issues.

12 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: --

13 defined issue here that says they can't issue an abatement

14 order and these engines can't operate w hile they are under

15 an enforcement action unless they're un der a permit. And

16 that's why we couldn't come to an agree ment on what sort

17 of regulatory language we could introdu ce that would not

18 be an amnesty period, but would simply address the sort of

19 technical issue of how you issue an aba tement order and

20 bring an engine in under permit so that you can then get

21 them to the newer cleaner engine.

22 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Can I just ask one clarifying

23 question?

24 From a layman's perspective on what you just

25 said, are we trying to understand how t o bring something43

1 under permit so we can tell them that t hey cannot use it?

2 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: We're

3 bringing them under permit so we give t hem a short period

4 of time to operate and replace the engi ne, because the

5 issue really is if they have to replace the engine, that

6 it costs money. If we take their abili ty to earn income

7 away by shutting down that operation, t hey have no ability

8 to generate resources to replace the en gine to the newer

9 cleaner engine.

10 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Thank you.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I unders tand the issue.

12 This has been going on -- this type of problem has been

13 going on for many, many years. Okay. Thank you.

14 Barry Wallerstein.

15 MR. WALLERSTEIN: Good morning , Chairman Nichols,

16 members of the Board.

17 I'm Barry Wallerstein, the Exe cutive Officer of

18 the South Coast AQMD. I'm before you t his morning in

19 support of the staff's modest proposal to grant an

20 additional year to allow folks during t his recessionary

21 time to accumulate some additional fund s to be able to get

22 the new engines.

23 I did want to point out that j ust last week the

24 federal government proposed potentially a new range of

25 ambient air quality standard for ozone. In South Coast,44

1 under our current ozone plan, we have t o reduce oxides of

2 nitrogen by about 75 percent. Potentia lly, under the new

3 federal standard, that could become 90 percent. That

4 means that our agencies have to be work ing together to

5 look for every possible area of emissio n reductions as we

6 have in the past.

7 Regarding Board Member Berg's last question, it

8 really is an issue of how do you grant in this case for

9 this rulemaking temporary relief. The engines not only

10 have to be able to comply with your ATC M if it receives a

11 district permit, it has to meet best av ailable control

12 technology. So Tier 1 or Tier 2 cannot meet BACT. So

13 really the only mechanism to provide th is sort of relief

14 is the item that is before you today, a nd that's why we're

15 supporting it, given the extraordinary economic times that

16 we find ourselves in, and the fact that it is just a brief

17 one-year period and we will then be ful ly back on track.

18 Thank you for your time.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u for that.

20 Michael Graboski, Mary Pitto, and Doug Van Allen.

21 MR. GRABOSKI: Good morning. I'm Dr. Michael

22 Graboski of the American Rental Associa tion.

23 ARA has submitted detailed wri tten comments, and

24 we hope that you'll review the totality of what we had to

25 say.45

1 But we're here this morning to just take a

2 neutral position on the regulation. In particular, we

3 don't really see any or very much at al l economic relief

4 for our membership in what has been pro posed.

5 We do have a concern about Sec tion 2458 on the

6 reporting requirements. Rental compani es have no control

7 over where their rental equipment is lo cated once it

8 leaves the yard. But in the new versio n of the

9 regulation, we basically are going to b e required on a

10 monthly basis to provide an exact locat ion of where our

11 equipment is, like UTM coordinates.

12 Previously, we were told and w e understood that

13 what we had to do is ask our customers where they were

14 going to have the equipment, and we wer e going to note

15 that down. And in a best effort, we wo uld provide that as

16 part of reporting.

17 But we now believe that, becau se as hearsay

18 knowledge and the way this is written i n the regulation,

19 that we might leave ourselves open to a serious compliance

20 risk if we can't exactly know where the equipment is.

21 It's our understanding that th e industry has

22 contacted both ARB and CAPCOA regarding this section of

23 the rule. And we would request the Boa rd set aside action

24 on this until those discussions are com pleted. And we

25 would all feel that we would be more sa fe with regard to46

1 compliance as far as the rule is concer ned.

2 Thank you.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

4 Mary Pitto.

5 Ms. PITTO: Good morning, and thank you for this

6 opportunity to address you.

7 I'm Mary Pitto with the Region al Council of Rural

8 Counties. I'm here to make one request , an additional

9 amendment for your consideration.

10 In the fleet rule for public a gencies and

11 utilities and with the off-road equipme nt rule and the new

12 truck and bus regulation, you have exem pted dedicated snow

13 removal equipment. We're requesting th at for the snow

14 blower machines that have a dual engine , one to propel the

15 vehicle and one to power the snow blowi ng equipment, that

16 these also be exempt from this regulati on, the portable

17 auxiliary ATCM.

18 The snow blowing equipment is used for public

19 service, a safety service to the genera l public. They're

20 used only seasonally and part time. So we would

21 appreciate that consideration.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

23 Doug Van Allen, followed by Ja mes Thomas and Karl

24 Lany.

25 MR. Van ALLEN: Good morning. My name is Doug47

1 Van Allen with BJ Services Company.

2 BJ supports all the changes th at will help

3 relieve extra expenses on California bu sinesses during

4 these hard times.

5 In 1997, BJ had 123 Tier 0 eng ines registered in

6 the PERP Program. As of December of '0 9, we've replaced

7 84 of the Tier 0 engines. That was 42, 800 horsepower at

8 an actual cost of over $25 million to B J.

9 On December 31st, '09, BJ stil l had 39 Tier 0

10 engines, totaling 22.5 thousand horsepo wer. Replacement

11 costs for those 39 engines would be $3. 9 million according

12 to CARB's estimation of $175 per horsep ower. So they're

13 right now out of business.

14 January '09, we had lay to off 30 percent of our

15 California employees due to the downtur n in business.

16 This was our first layoff since 1986 fo r California

17 employees.

18 Since '08, we have reduced our on-highway truck

19 fleet by 15 percent.

20 Since '08, we've reduced our d iesel engine

21 powered pumps by 31 percent operating i n California, and

22 our sales of our pressure pumping servi ces has decreased

23 around 30 percent as well.

24 Several of the air districts w ant to make changes

25 allowing Tier 0 engines to be permitted for future use.48

1 If this recommended change is made, it must be allowed for

2 all businesses, not just small business es, in order to

3 prevent creating a larger competitive d isadvantage than

4 we've already had.

5 And if this recommended change is made, BJ has

6 22.5 thousand horsepower engine Tier 0s we'd like to

7 continue to operate in California.

8 Thank you.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. T hank you.

10 James Thomas.

11 MR. THOMAS: I'm James Thomas with Nabors Well

12 Services.

13 Our company supports some of t he proposals of the

14 amendments today.

15 We are greatly happy or greatl y jubilated with

16 the reducing of the annual reports and the daily

17 recordkeeping. For the past, less than 20 percent of the

18 fleets filed the annual reports with CA RB. And with that

19 data going in, no one has ever requeste d to look at that

20 data. So we're glad to see the red tap e leave.

21 On-highway engines being allow ed back into PERP,

22 we support that. But last summer, we r eceived a

23 notification stating that our engines w ould have to be

24 replaced by the end of the year. In th e cost analysis, it

25 talks about federal fleets and that the y will be able to49

1 save $510,000. Our company spent that money to replace

2 our five engines that were not going to be allowed.

3 Now, here today, we're talking about Tier 0

4 engines and allowing them to operate. In this repowering

5 process, we removed two Tier 0 -- two T ier 2 on-road

6 engines, which were very clean.

7 So our suggestion is in the fu ture when you

8 decide to make some changes that you st art sooner so all

9 companies can benefit from this proposa l.

10 We support the relief for smal l fleets, but we

11 believe that if you're going to give it to small fleets

12 that you ought to give it to large flee ts as well.

13 The last we'd like to talk abo ut is the

14 competitive disadvantage that PERP regu lations has created

15 on complying companies through modifica tion, amnesty, lack

16 of inspection, for allowing companies t o opt out of the

17 program and operate.

18 The comments of two of the air districts

19 acknowledged that these people do exist . And for

20 regulations to be fair for companies th at are spending

21 large amounts of money, like my company that spent $14.8

22 million, we must make sure that we crea te a level playing

23 field for all affected people.

24 And we hope and pray that you will make sure that

25 the companies that do not get -- the en gines that don't50

1 get to be extended are inspected and ma ke sure they

2 comply.

3 Thank you.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u for your

5 testimony.

6 Karl Lany, followed by William Davis and Mike

7 Mortensson.

8 MR. LANY: Good morning. I'm Karl Lany with SCEC

9 Air Quality Specialists. I'm here on b ehalf of the

10 Caterpillar rental operations in Califo rnia and

11 neighboring states who have approximate ly 1700 engines in

12 the PERP program. We've been very comm itted to this

13 program, have replaced our fleets, have very, very modern

14 fleets.

15 My comments reflect a lot of t he comments you've

16 already heard today, specifically as it relates to

17 recordkeeping and reporting. I want to make sure it's

18 understood that while recordkeeping and reporting may have

19 been streamlined for owner/operator fle ets through these

20 amendments, the proposed amendments wil l make

21 recordkeeping and reporting more onerou s for rental

22 fleets. And we think it reflects a dis connect in

23 thinking, maybe something that's less t han full awareness

24 of the intricacies of the rental transa ction.

25 Specifically, in 2458(b), the inclusion of a monthly51

1 log-in entry as to the specific locatio n of the engine is

2 very, very problematic, primarily becau se it's something

3 that's enforced upon the owner of the e ngine and not the

4 operator of the engine.

5 As previously stated by the AR A representative,

6 we don't have that kind of control. We don't have the

7 ability to validate that kind of data. You may think if

8 CARB is going to have this type of rest riction or

9 requirement, we need to recognize who i s responsible for

10 which compliance actions, owners versus operators. And we

11 would ask that that provision be withhe ld until we can

12 have more communication with CARB and C APCOA.

13 Also, CARB is proposing that c ertified engines be

14 removed from annual reporting requireme nts for

15 owner-operated fleets. But rental flee ts and actual

16 essential public service fleets do not enjoy that same

17 luxury, and we would like to see that m ore evenly applied.

18 Finally, we do thank CARB for several of the

19 other provisions that are in the amendm ents very much so,

20 one of which is their willingness to pr ovide registration

21 electronically. It's very important th at we get engines

22 into the field and dispatched as soon a s possible. That's

23 very welcome.

24 I would like to see additional language that

25 clarifies that for a limited amount of time we can operate52

1 without the placards and labels, becaus e those are going

2 to follow through the mail.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u. Good comments.

4 William Davis, and then Mike M ortensson and

5 Arthur Fulton.

6 MR. DAVIS: Is there a button? We're in

7 business.

8 Good morning, Madam Chairman, members of the

9 Board. I'm William E. Davis, Executive Vice President of

10 the Southern California Contractors Ass ociation and Board

11 member with the Construction Air Qualit y Coalition.

12 But this morning, I'm here to discuss the idea of

13 William of Ockham, a 14th century --

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Bill, we 'll let you

15 restart. This is a reset.

16 MR. DAVIS: Thank you.

17 William Davis with the Souther n California

18 Contractors Association and CIAQC.

19 This morning I'm here to discu ss the ideas of

20 another William however, William of Ock ham, a 14th century

21 Franciscan friar and logician. The fou nder of Williams

22 Order of Saint Francis of the CC is the patron and saint

23 of the environment and environmentalist . I've actually

24 thought of bringing you all medallions for Saint Francis

25 just in case you might need them.53

1 William of Ockham was a leadin g thinker in the

2 scholastic movement, which was a very i mportant period in

3 intellectual life, and made it his life goal to strive for

4 simplification, a very Franciscan prece pt, especially when

5 church bureaucracies debated in those d ays over topics

6 such as how many angels can dance on th e head of a pin.

7 When William of Ockham was man of many parts, he

8 is in our day associated with the princ iple known as

9 Ockham's razor, a philosophy he used to cut through

10 complexity and to get at the heart of t he matter before

11 him.

12 In the 1330s, William expresse d the idea -- and

13 I'm not going to butcher the Latin, but in the prepared

14 remarks you have it -- and you, Dr. Bal mes, can read it

15 and several others. Entities must not be multiplied

16 beyond necessity. The way we say that today is that the

17 simplest explanation or strategy tends to be the best one.

18 In the case before you, we bel ieve the staff

19 proposal unnecessarily complicates the issue of what to do

20 about Tier 0 portable engines. This st aff approach

21 harkens back to the idea of angels danc ing on the heads of

22 pins.

23 The simplest thing to do would be to extend the

24 operation of all registered Tier 0 equi pment for a

25 one-year period. This simple thing wou ld have virtually54

1 no effect on emissions.

2 And, Dr. Telles, as your staff estimates, there's

3 no more than 4300 of these machines in the state. The

4 construction industry, which owns most of them, has

5 declined so dramatically over the last five years it's

6 essentially operating at about 50 perce nt of where it was

7 when this regulation was last discussed . So only half of

8 these machines would be operating at be st.

9 Your cost estimates -- and I'm going to take just

10 a second to talk about this. At $66 mi llion, our industry

11 will actually receive far greater cost savings just from

12 the elimination of the recordkeeping re quirements that are

13 proposed. We do support that.

14 We had one company up here a m oment ago that had

15 a cost of almost $30 million all on the ir own. We think

16 the cost estimates on these again are u nderestimated by a

17 factor of four or five.

18 Finally, when CAPCOA and CARB get together to

19 discuss their request, our industry wou ld like a place at

20 that table. Since we're the regulated body for most of

21 this, we think we have something to con tribute to the

22 discussion.

23 Thank you all very much.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

25 I really am a sucker for anybo dy that quotes55

1 Latin, especially medieval Latin. I st arted college as a

2 classics major. Appreciate your commen ts.

3 MR. DAVIS: Point of personal question.

4 Dr. Balmes is one of the natio n's recognized

5 experts on the health effects of ozone. And since the EPA

6 has come out with these new recommendat ions, I was

7 wondering if it would be possible to co ntact you about

8 getting some information on that so our industry can

9 formulate a position.

10 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: You can contact me.

11 MR. DAVIS: Thank you.

12 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: The Boar d secretary,

13 Ms. Fraizer, always seems to be able to contact Board

14 members.

15 Mike Mortensson.

16 MR. MORTENSSON: Good morning, Chairman Nichols

17 and members of the Board. I'm Mike Mor tensson, the

18 Executive Director of the California Gr oundwater

19 Association, commonly known as CGA.

20 CGA represents water well dril ling contractors,

21 pump installing contractors and firms t hroughout the

22 state. The groundwater industry is not large in numbers,

23 but its functions are critical to the s tate's well-being.

24 And our industry is subject to multiple CARB rules.

25 We ask that the Board approve the proposed56

1 amendments that will place two-engine w ater well drilling

2 rigs similar to the cranes in the off-r oad rule and to

3 allow additional compliance time for Ti er 0 engines. Your

4 approval will prevent the loss of what we estimate to be a

5 third of the state's water well drillin g rigs and give our

6 many small business owners in the indus try time to comply

7 with the regulations in these hard econ omic times.

8 We have worked with CARB staff in the last year

9 on these matters, and we look forward t o working with them

10 in the future to help our members impro ve air quality

11 while ensuring the continued reliabilit y of the

12 groundwater industry to meet the water needs of all

13 Californians.

14 Thank you.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

16 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Chairman N ichols, could I

17 just ask a question of the staff?

18 I do have on my list the time frame for bringing

19 these regs into compliance on the off-r oad rule, given the

20 fact that the off-road rule is in effec t right now for

21 large companies and what type of additi onal time are we

22 looking at?

23 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Well, Ms. Berg,

24 you know, there's three scenarios with the compliance

25 dates we're expecting for these water w ell drillings rigs.57

1 The majority of these we're expecting t o be small and

2 medium fleets when they enter into DOOR S. So their

3 compliance dates are the 2013 and 2015 respectively for

4 medium and small.

5 Then you have a scenario of la rge fleets. If one

6 of these existing small to medium fleet s becomes large,

7 then the off-road regulations provide t hem an additional

8 two years from the next compliance date to come into

9 compliance if they increase in size. S o those fleets that

10 increase to large will get until March of 2013 as well.

11 We have the scenario of an exi sting large fleet

12 that it was already large in the off-ro ad and they add

13 some water well drilling rigs. What wi ll happen is their

14 compliance date will still be March 1st of 2010, but the

15 water well drilling rigs won't be part of that compliance

16 until the next year, which is March 1, 2011.

17 BOARD MEMBER BERG: And that's for registering

18 for the DOORS?

19 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Yes, for the

20 off-road compliance.

21 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Isn't ther e some requirements

22 on 8 percent NOx and 20 percent PM, if my memory serves me

23 correctly?

24 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : No. The

25 compliance dates I was speaking of was for those58

1 compliance emissions rates, the 8 perce nt NOx. We

2 actually extended the reporting date fo r all water well

3 drilling rigs until August 1st of this year. So then, you

4 know, the next year's compliance date w ould be in effect

5 for the existing large fleets, which is March 1st of 2011.

6 BOARD MEMBER BERG: So they wo uld, in fact, have

7 a one-year delay and then there isn't a catch up? There

8 isn't a double down, so to speak?

9 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Right.

10 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Is that co rrect?

11 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : For existing

12 large fleets, if they're adding in wate r well drilling

13 rigs, they get until next year to compl y with those.

14 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Thank you.

15 CHIEF DEPUTY EXECUTIVE OFFICER CACKETTE: Let me

16 add one other thing. For the larger fl eets when they get

17 put in with the off-road rule, there's a longer phase-in

18 for a replacement of engines. So they' re able to average

19 things out. So if these are really tou gh to comply with,

20 you can do other ones first, which buys you more time.

21 There's a lot more flexibility but havi ng it in that

22 bigger pool for the larger fleets.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: All righ t. Thank you.

24 Is Arthur Fulton here?

25 MR. FULTON: I'm Arthur Fulton . I'm a well59

1 drilling contractor. I'm the owner of Diamond Well

2 Drilling Company.

3 In the beginning of 2008, I em ployed 30 people.

4 Right now, I employ 15.

5 Half of my fleet, four rigs, h as been taken out

6 of service as a result of the portable equipment ATCM and

7 the compliance date of January 1, 2010.

8 I'm speaking in support of the se amendments.

9 They'll help me a great deal. And I'd like to explain

10 why. I'd like to buy new drill rigs. I'd like to buy two

11 new higher tiered engine drill rigs to replace the drill

12 rigs that I have that are decommissione d that have Tier 0

13 engines. The rigs cost a little bit so uth of a million

14 dollars a piece. And I can't do that n ow. I'm hoping

15 that when business picks up that I can put these rigs back

16 into service and make some money and bu y the new drill

17 rigs. If I can't do that, I'll go out of business and the

18 15 jobs that I lost will be compounded with the 15 jobs

19 that I still provide. And, therefore, I would encourage

20 you to pass these amendments.

21 I do have one question though. And it was said

22 today by Mr. Gormley, and I am a little bit confused about

23 where the jurisdiction is. It's my und erstanding the

24 off-road rule is administered by the st ate in general.

25 But you did mention that the old portab le equipment60

1 engines would still be administered and enforced by the

2 local districts.

3 And I'll take my answer in the seat.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u. Do you want to

5 add a comment at this point about how t he system actually

6 works?

7 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Sure. I'll

8 expand on that a little bit.

9 We are proposing to move both engines and water

10 well drilling into the off-road regulat ion, which means

11 their emission control requirements for those two engines

12 are going to come from off-road reg. T hey're not going to

13 come from the on-highway truck rule or the portable ATCM

14 any longer.

15 However, the deck engine still meets the

16 definition of portable. So, therefore, the districts then

17 can still require permit for it. And s o to satisfy that

18 permit requirement, they still have the option to come

19 into PERP if they want to or permit wit h the district.

20 But the emission control requirements w ill be set by the

21 off-road regulation.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thanks.

23 MR. FULTON: Are you saying we 'll have the choice

24 of whether to be in the state or with t he local?

25 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : For the permit,61

1 yes.

2 BOARD MEMBER BERG: And that m eans you do have to

3 register with a PERP in order to be wit h the state.

4 MR. FULTON: Yes, ma'am.

5 On those two rigs, I'm current ly registered with

6 my district, because frankly I missed t he deadline. I

7 woke up in 2006 on those two rigs, and I was able to

8 permit with the district, but not with the state. I'd

9 like to be able to permit with the stat e. Under the new

10 rule, would I be able to do that?

11 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Staff?

12 AIR RESOURCES ENGINEER GORMLEY : Yes. Once these

13 amendments become effective, he can app ly to register the

14 deck engine with the PERP. And both en gines will be

15 registered into DOORS.

16 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Thank you very much.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: That was interesting and

18 useful clarification.

19 Michael Lewis.

20 MR. LEWIS: Good morning, Mada m Chairman and

21 members of the Board.

22 I'm Mike Lewis, Senior Vice Pr esident of the

23 Construction Industry Air Quality Coali tion. And we are

24 the organization that sponsored the leg islation that

25 created the PERP program. You can eith er thank us or62

1 curse us.

2 But we foresaw the problem tha t was pending at

3 the time with local districts with a my riad of rules and

4 requirements and fees and reporting for equipment that was

5 moving around the state in a fashion wh ere a piece of

6 equipment could be in three different d istricts in three

7 different weeks.

8 The program has been very succ essful in

9 minimizing fees and providing an unders tandable and

10 uniform set of rules for portable equip ment in California.

11 I would like to ask that you c onsider option two

12 in your staff report which would grant relief to all

13 companies with portable engines, not ju st small companies.

14 Every company in California, every cons truction company

15 certainly, is suffering equally in this economy. And most

16 of the equipment in this program is emp loyed in

17 construction-related activities.

18 And most of you know by now th at unemployment and

19 therefore emission reductions in constr uction industry is

20 pushing about 40 percent and growing st ill.

21 Emissions from this equipment is down

22 considerably. And I think granting rel ief across the

23 board is the appropriate way to deal wi th the issue that

24 you're trying to accommodate by grantin g some relief for

25 these Tier 0 engines.63

1 I'd also like to ask that you take a second look

2 at the monthly reporting requirements f or the rental

3 companies. The purpose of that report is to get at

4 equipment that stays in one place for 1 2 months or longer.

5 Having a company that has hundreds of p ieces of equipment

6 out on rental, and they have to try to track it,

7 especially some of this equipment is se cond and third hand

8 rental, is almost impossible. If what you want is the

9 equipment that's going to stay in one p lace for 12 months

10 or longer, you can eliminate about 85 p ercent of the

11 reporting by just focusing on contracts that are 12 months

12 long or contracts that get extended to 12 months or longer

13 and then you know where that equipment is.

14 Finally, I'd like to ask, sinc e you're going to

15 be extending this deadline and you have recently provided

16 some relief on the off-road rule and yo u're going to be

17 providing some on the on-road rule, and I wouldn't be

18 surprised if we're back here in 12 mont hs doing this

19 again, that you look at the cumulative effect of these

20 rules on the industry.

21 As we've said before, companie s are struggling to

22 comply with just one rule, let alone th ree. Most

23 construction companies have all three k inds of equipment:

24 Off-road, on-road, and portable. The d eadlines for

25 compliance match almost identically for all of them. And64

1 it makes it very difficult for a contra ctor to decide what

2 am I going to do when he has to deal wi th all three pieces

3 of equipment, rather than some emission s bubble which

4 might be a more effective way for them to do it by

5 aggregating their emissions and achievi ng some percentage

6 reduction across the board, but let the m decide how

7 they're going to do it with what change s and modifications

8 to their fleet.

9 Thank you.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u, Mr. Lewis.

11 That's an intriguing idea. I said you were the

12 last witness, but that was not true. I received two

13 additional cards. This is the end, how ever. We're not

14 going to take any more witnesses on thi s. So I've got

15 Fitts Weiss and Scott Watson; one in su pport, one oppose.

16 You're Mr. Watson?

17 MR. WATSON: Yes, I'm Mr. Wats on.

18 I'm here today as simply an in dividual. I have

19 been on opposing sides of different reg ulations, primarily

20 with the ATCM regulation with formaldeh yde and composite

21 wood products. And I'm here to ask the Board to help us,

22 the public, police this process. Becau se currently in the

23 Scientific Review Panel, it's my unders tanding that there

24 are six members of the Scientific Revie w Panel that are

25 not properly seated. And I think that it would be65

1 important for us to follow those rules. There are nine

2 members. There are exhaustive rules on how these people

3 are appointed.

4 And the problem that I have is that there are

5 supposed to be three nominees for each of the nine

6 positions. And these are your own rule s. I can go

7 through the code if you wanted me to, b ut I think it's

8 going to be a long and boring --

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Actually , Mr. Watson your

10 comments are appropriate, but not on th is item. They are

11 not relevant to the item that we're con sidering here.

12 But for your information, we h ave requested

13 nominees from the University of Califor nia. I'm familiar

14 with the regulatory system here. And I just received a

15 letter from the President of the Univer sity of California

16 quite recently. And I think the proces s is, in fact,

17 underway that you're hoping for. But w e can communicate

18 with you later on that.

19 MR. WATSON: Okay. And that's terrific.

20 I suppose I should just summar ize by saying that

21 as a Board we have to live with the reg ulations that you

22 folks pass. We ask you to pass those w ith the rules that

23 are already provided. Otherwise, you'r e holding us to a

24 higher standard than we can hold you.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I apprec iate your comment.66

1 Thank you.

2 Mr. Weiss, I hope your comment is on the rule

3 we're considering here.

4 MR. WEISS: On the proposed am endment, yes. It's

5 in support with one -- basically in sup port of also

6 including for the one-time compliance a greements that were

7 signed with local air districts and I t hink the gentleman

8 was referring to in terms of the fourth amnesty. We're

9 not exactly sure, but when the decision was made -- I

10 represent Berkeley Concrete Pumping. A nd basically

11 similar to the water well rigs that are very extensive

12 large pieces of equipment, when the one -time compliance

13 agreements were made, no one really cou ld foresee the

14 economic crisis that was going to be oc curring.

15 And that was one of the option s that was given by

16 the ARB and the air quality local distr icts. And then to

17 now exempt those one-time compliance ag reements from

18 getting into the proposed extension we feel is an unfair

19 singling out of what at the time was co nsidered an equal

20 option to joining the PERP program or g etting permitted by

21 these local air districts.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think understand the

23 point, but I'm not sure. Why do you fe el you're being

24 singled out?

25 MR. WEISS: We're not sure the -- we've been told67

1 by our local air district that the one- time compliance

2 agreements will not be included in the extension.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Oh, I se e.

4 MR. WEISS: And we're not sure exactly why that

5 is. Because it's not exactly a permit with the local air

6 districts.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I'm goin g to ask Mr.

8 Fletcher to respond.

9 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: If I

10 understand, the issue that anybody that came into the

11 program as a result of the amnesty he's saying would not

12 be eligible for this extension, that is not our

13 interpretation. If they are registered in the program

14 right now through whatever means, they have to decide

15 what --

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: You're n ot going to single

17 them out because they came in through t his other door,

18 if you are registered.

19 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER:

20 Right. If you were registered.

21 MR. WEISS: They're called the compliance

22 agreements signed with local air distri cts.

23 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: If

24 they're under an enforcement action, th en it may be a

25 different situation and we'd have to ev aluate it. We'd be68

1 happy to talk to him after.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Why don' t we have this

3 conversation off line if you don't mine

.

4 But as a general rule, if you' re registered,

5 you're registered. No matter how. Oka y. Thanks.

6 That does conclude the list of witnesses on this

7 item. I'd like to take it back to staf f if you have any

8 further comments at this point.

9 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We're prepared to

10 do that.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay.

12 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: I

13 just have a few comments that I'll walk through, some

14 common themes that came up.

15 From the rental industry, the issue of the

16 monthly provision. There are two requi rements that apply

17 to rental fleets. One of them is for e quipment units and

18 the other one is for engines. And they do have different

19 requirements. And we've modified both of those provisions

20 to essentially relax requirements in bo th cases.

21 I think the one issue that cam e up regarding the

22 fact that they have to do this annual r eport for engines,

23 even though we exempted other engines, the comment was

24 made that both rental engines and the p ublic utility

25 engines are still subject to the annual report.69

1 There is a case to be made tha t perhaps that is

2 not necessary, and we did look at that in the context.

3 The reason we didn't make the changes i s that rental units

4 are more complicated than typically oth er business. We

5 did relax the requirement. The origina l requirement

6 required rental companies to identify t he location of

7 every rental. We've struck that requir ement and added the

8 once-a-month again to reflect the fact that in some cases

9 the rental industry is renting engines to people that keep

10 them in the same place for long periods of time. So we

11 thought once a month was not an undue b urden to just check

12 in periodically that says where is the engine and where is

13 it located.

14 There was an issue about who i s responsible for

15 doing that, because the owners don't re ally know. And we

16 believe in both for rental units and re ntal engines that

17 the operators can be brought into being responsible for

18 that as a condition of the contract its elf. So they can

19 simply require the operators to report that information to

20 them, particularly for longer term rent als.

21 So the second issue or one of the issues that

22 came up was on snow blowers. This is a new issue to us,

23 but it certainly is consistent with wha t we have been

24 doing with other two-engine type units.

25 The one caveat that we would w ant to make is to70

1 ensure that it is cost prohibitive to m ake these changes.

2 We've done it for street sweepers. We' ve done it for

3 cranes. We're proposing to do it for w ater well drilling

4 rigs. There's no reason why we wouldn' t extend the same

5 benefit. And we can do that as a 15-da y change to this

6 regulation if we find that, in fact, th ere is a

7 cost-prohibitive element to the replace ment of the

8 portable engine on snow machines.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Board me mbers? Yes, Dr.

10 Balmes, you had a question?

11 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: This is a question about

12 the reporting data. I took it from the one witness that

13 those data weren't actually even asked for from his

14 company. I mean, I don't think we shou ld be collecting

15 data unless we're making use of it. So could you

16 enlighten me about that?

17 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: I

18 agree. That's why we did drop the annu al requirements for

19 many of the certified engines.

20 We have focused in the last tw o or three years on

21 bringing engines into the program. And so the districts

22 have been spending a lot of resources a nd trying to find

23 engines and get them into the program. If you recall,

24 several years ago, we adopted amendment s to the regs that

25 set up an amnesty period with a back sc hedule of fees71

1 associated with it to level that playin g field. And over

2 the last three years, we've brought in an average of 800

3 engines a year.

4 So I think we're now turning t he attention to

5 sort of the compliance with the people that have

6 registered in the program. But I think a lot of the

7 districts' efforts to date have been fo cused on that.

8 But we are dropping some of th at recordkeeping

9 requirements. We have relaxed a lot of the requirements,

10 and in recognition of that, we are not using it. But the

11 reports we were not using. Even though we thought it

12 might be a useful piece of information, we were getting

13 very few of them and not using them.

14 So I think the question here i s whether or not we

15 drop that annual report requirement for rental companies

16 and for the public utilities. That's r eally the decision

17 that needs to be made here. But in gen eral all of the

18 reporting has been relaxed.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Ms. Berg

.

20 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I'm not he aring from staff

21 though how they're going to use that in formation. Is the

22 information important to you? And if s o, how for the

23 rental and the utilities on the annual report?

24 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: It's

25 the check-in to ensure that the distric ts have some72

1 information about where these engines a re operating within

2 their districts. That then provides th em with a database

3 that they can go out and can check loca tions. They know

4 where to go. A lot of times we don't k now where these

5 engines are being used, so it's really difficult to track

6 in and see. But if we get sort of comm on patterns on

7 where things are operating, they're in a better position

8 to go out and enforce on site than they would otherwise

9 be.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Having w atched this evolve

11 a little bit, it seems to me the proble m here is this is a

12 rule that really was not being enforced at all for a long

13 time. And we're gradually starting to clean it up and

14 make it enforceable. But I guess the s taff is trying to

15 figure out what the best tool is to get the information.

16 BOARD MEMBER BERG: If we're g etting back to the

17 monthly reporting, if owners have a res ponsibility to

18 report the equipment they own on a mont hly basis, why

19 would we not include they also would re port whatever

20 rental equipment they have? They're al ready submitting

21 the report.

22 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: It's

23 just the way that the rule is structure d that there are

24 requirements for owners or operators of engines and then

25 there's separate sections for owner or operator of rental73

1 equipment. So because rental equipment operations are

2 different than other types of operation s is the equipment

3 is going out; sometimes it's going out to third party

4 rentals. Then we felt there was a nece ssity to have a

5 little different reporting requirement than what's in

6 place for normally registered engines.

7 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Is it true that what we're

8 trying to get at is long-term placement ?

9 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: In

10 general, yes, that's true for rental eq uipment.

11 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Why aren't we having them

12 report their long-term equipment?

13 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: What

14 we were concerned about is -- and we ca n do that. We can

15 drop that requirement and restructure i t in that way.

16 What we were concerned about is that as sort of a

17 condition of good business, we thought a check-in

18 periodically would be useful to ensure that they had an

19 indication of where that equipment was operating and to

20 provide service to their customers that if they were

21 approaching the 12-month limit, they wo uld lose their

22 ability to be in the portable equipment program and would

23 need to seek a permit from the district

.

24 BOARD MEMBER BERG: We probabl y wouldn't need to

25 do the short-term. Like anything under six months, we74

1 would know that that would not apply. So we could

2 absolutely exempt some sort of time fra me to lessen their

3 reporting burden.

4 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: We

5 could work with the districts to restru cture something

6 along that line. I'd want to make sure that we got

7 district input on this, because they're the ones that are

8 doing the primary enforcement.

9 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I do think we do need to put

10 in a 15-day change, however, that we ne ed to come up with

11 some mechanism that lowers the burden o f the reporting for

12 things that do not meet the goal.

13 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: Okay.

14 We'd be happy to do that.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We can c ertainly add that

16 to the list of things to put in the dis cussion when we get

17 to the actual voting on the regulation.

18 I wanted to actually ask a sli ghtly different

19 question, which responds to Mike Lewis' comment. And this

20 may not be the time to deal with that. But it is true

21 that for the construction industry they are dealing with

22 different pieces of equipment that are being regulated

23 under different rules, all of which we' re in the process

24 of considering. And I find myself bein g quite attracted

25 to the idea at least that -- and I real ize this probably75

1 only works for larger companies that a company which is

2 using a bunch of these different kinds of equipment could

3 take on the responsibility for managing the emissions

4 reduction across the whole company.

5 So it is a bubble concept, and we've used it

6 effectively in the past for stationary sources who never

7 tried to do it for mobile sources and o bviously it's hard

8 to do. But in the case of the construc tion industry, they

9 might actually afford a unique opportun ity to do something

10 like this.

11 I'd like to at least raise the question and see

12 if at least before we get to the next o ne of these

13 deadlines if the staff could take a loo k at the potential

14 for doing something like this. I reall y think it bears

15 further investigation.

16 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: For

17 example, the portable engine rule does go into the fleet

18 average mode in the 2013 time frame --

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: But only for the portable

20 engines.

21 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: Only

22 for the portable engines.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So we do n't allow people to

24 trade across different types of equipme nt. I don't know

25 how advantageous it would be for many p eople in the76

1 construction industry. But if they wan ted to try it to go

2 under a cap, it would seem like it coul d. And there's all

3 the usual questions about reporting and enforcement and

4 all of that. It would be worth looking at.

5 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We'll look at it.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

7 Other comments? Questions?

8 Supervisor Roberts.

9 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: I wante d to hear the

10 response to the other part, the exempti ng all of the

11 companies but the same rule --

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: The size issue.

13 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: They we re saying who's

14 most able to pay. Most able to pay, me ans you still did

15 pretty bad.

16 And, you know, I don't think t here's a

17 fundamental understanding of what's goi ng on in the

18 construction industry. We're still put ting heavy

19 requirements on and assuming that most able to pay means

20 they're in good shape. They're not. S o I thought that

21 was a good recommendation. And I'd lik e to hear what

22 the implications are.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Emission s and other

24 implications, I guess.

25 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: Well,77

1 let me start with the issue of why we s elected 25 or fewer

2 to begin with. And that was done basic ally because as we

3 were looking at the proposed amendments , we went through a

4 number of factors as to why we even dec ided this was

5 appropriate. And as we were going thro ugh it and when we

6 made the decision that some relief is a ppropriate, we then

7 looked at the companies that are in the program and what

8 they have in the way of engines. And w e looked at what

9 percentage the Tier 0 were in each of t hose fleets.

10 And what we found was for engi nes -- for

11 companies that had 25 or fewer engines, 65 percent of

12 their engines were Tier 0. And as you went into larger

13 fleets, for example, if you went into l et's say a medium

14 size fleet, it went down to 45 percent. And when you got

15 to larger fleets, it was 25 percent.

16 So we were then able to look a t those 1200

17 companies that had at least one Tier 0 engine and break

18 that down in terms of what those compan ies typically were

19 doing and how they would be affected. And when we found

20 that 800 of those 1200 companies would be getting one year

21 relief completely, that all of their en gines -- say, if

22 they were a tree trimming company, for example, they might

23 have five engines, all of those engines total would be

24 less than 500. So 800 out of the 1200 companies we felt

25 were completely -- we would get one yea r relief.78

1 When we looked at the larger c ompanies, you were

2 looking at companies that had in some c ases hundreds and

3 hundreds of engines. So these were com panies like

4 Halliburton and other people in the oil industry that

5 hasn't really seen necessarily that dec line. So we felt

6 that the resources were there to be abl e to replace those

7 engines. And we believe, in fact, that many of those

8 companies probably have already.

9 So of the 4400 engines that we re in the database

10 in 2009, we're providing relief for abo ut 2,000 of those

11 engines. And then the other 100 compan ies are owning the

12 remainder of the 2400.

13 So we didn't want to -- and if you look at the

14 sort of the emissions impacts associate d with that, you

15 know, those 4400 engines represent abou t -- what did I say

16 earlier -- about 40 percent of the tota l emissions from

17 portable engines. And so by our action s, we're retaining

18 most of those emission benefits without really affecting

19 the overall emission reduction.

20 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: It soun ds very simple, but

21 you kind of jump from one extreme to so rt of the biggest

22 exempt one. I guess I'm wondering when I get up -- I

23 don't know how many companies are falli ng just beyond the

24 reach here.

25 And these sort of attempts at regulations through79

1 financial management in a sense kind of bother me, because

2 we're making all sorts of assumptions a nd drawing the

3 lines. And I feel like we ought to hav e one rule, period.

4 And I would be in favor of extending it just in those

5 categories in the same way you did at o ne engine.

6 You're saying we're going to c apture most of them

7 in what we're doing. But there are goi ng to be some that

8 are going to fall just outside this bou ndary, not the

9 example that you used.

10 I think most of the ones that are very big, not

11 only is it not going to make a differen ce, it's probably

12 not going to matter whether there is a rule or not.

13 They're going to start to phase those o ut. I'm more

14 concerned about the guys that aren't qu ite in that

15 position. And I'm not sure that drawin g the line at 25 or

16 fewer is appropriate.

17 BOARD MEMBER BERG: The other question I would

18 have, on the emissions estimate, is tha t based on

19 pre-recession or post-recession numbers ?

20 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: All

21 of the emission estimates are pre-reces sion numbers.

22 BOARD MEMBER BERG: So we coul d take the

23 reduction of business off of this. We wouldn't have 40

24 percent today because of the downturn i n business?

25 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER:80

1 That's correct.

2 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Thank you.

3 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: For

4 some of the industries. For some of th e industries, they

5 haven't seen that sort of downturn.

6 BOARD MEMBER BERG: But we hea rd two compelling

7 testimony today from large fleets who h ave spent a great

8 deal of money to bring a large percenta ge of their fleet

9 in compliance, and yet have also gone t hrough layoffs and

10 reductions in business. And they do ha ve a portion of

11 their equipment remaining. And they wo uld be certainly

12 appreciative also of some consideration

.

13 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think everyone would

14 appreciate the additional opportunity. I think the level

15 playing field argument is one that sort of works well for

16 me anyway.

17 Okay. Other Board comment or questions?

18 Dr. Telles.

19 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: I'm a li ttle troubled by

20 the cost estimates where CARB estimates 66 million and

21 some of the speakers here say it's 200 million.

22 In front of me, I have a writt en comment, Comment

23 17, where it's estimated to be 290 mill ion. Just kind of

24 using simple arithmetic. And so it see ms like this may be

25 much more costly and more onerous to th ese industries than81

1 what CARB is estimating.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Could I interrupt there?

3 Because that was the first commenter, M r. Gaines, who

4 really made some very strong statements , kind of off there

5 from the perspective of the filter manu facturer. Without

6 interrupting your basic issue about cos t, he raised a

7 whole bunch of challenges to this whole rule approach.

8 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: This is his letter.

9 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We've go t the letter. I'm

10 just asking the question if the staff w anted to give a

11 broader response when they responded to your point.

12 That's all.

13 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Well, is his arithmetic

14 wrong? Simple question if you read his letter. And if

15 you wanted to look at this letter, it's page 3 halfway

16 down. That's one concern.

17 The other concern is in this l etter they

18 addressed the fact that in certain coun ties, like Butte

19 County, 43 percent of the engines are T ier 0. And they're

20 wondering why you can't retrofit some o f these Tier 0

21 engines at a much cheaper price, which would save this

22 industry about $200 million according t o their estimates.

23 I wonder why that's not considered here if this letter is

24 accurate.

25 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CH IEF DONOHOUE:82

1 Couple responses on that.

2 On the first thing with respec t to the cost, we

3 would estimate the cost to be at 175 pe r brake horsepower

4 hour, if you go through basically that' s looking at what

5 information we received in the registra tion program and

6 all that. So we think ours is a good n umber.

7 The other thing I think you ne ed to take into

8 consideration when looking at cost, the PERP regulation

9 for those registered in it, we told the m 13 years ago that

10 you need to do this. These engines are at least 15 years

11 old, these Tier 0 or older. So while t hey may cost some

12 to replace, you would also assume, as y ou are a car, that

13 they are deprecating over time.

14 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Let me j ust comment that's

15 the number they used to calculate this is $175.

16 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: Dr.

17 Telles, I can answer the question.

18 The problem is simply with his math. And he did

19 not have the same access to the informa tion, nor did he

20 ask us what information that we had, no r did he apparently

21 read the staff report. Because the est imate that we have

22 for the number of portable engines stat ewide is 4400.

23 But what he has done is taken the percentage of

24 Tier 0 engines in Butte County and appl ied that percentage

25 through the entire PERP database to get 18,000. So he's83

1 overestimated the number of engines by over a factor of

2 four. And that represents really the d ifference in where

3 those numbers come from.

4 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: How abou t the concern about

5 the retrofitting the Tier 0 engines?

6 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: That

7 is the issue that Dan was speaking to. And Dan is correct

8 in that the retrofit of the Tier 0s is these are very old

9 engines. They have very high loading. The vendors have

10 really not looked at trying to address those issues

11 explicitly because of the age of the en gines.

12 As you move to the certified e ngines and you do

13 as Mr. Gaines was talking about, which is looking at an

14 integrated system where you can reduce the PM and the NOx

15 simultaneously and incorporate a diesel filter as part of

16 that overall system, then you can syste matically reduce

17 those emissions.

18 So to us, it seemed not a good idea to apply a

19 $15,000 piece of equipment to an equipm ent that may have a

20 value of two to $5,000 at this point. So you can do it,

21 but it does not simply make a lot of mi stakes.

22 And Dan may have some other th ings to add.

23 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CH IEF DONOHOUE: The

24 other thing Mr. Gaines is talking about is portable

25 irrigation pumps, and that is actually covered under the84

1 stationary ag engine rule. Since the a pplication is

2 similar, we tried to lump together both stationary ag

3 pumps and portable ag pumps, and they a re under the same

4 program.

5 We have not seen very many ver ifications at all

6 for the Tier 0 engines for a couple rea sons. One, they're

7 very old. They're very high emitters. And the other

8 thing is that we tend to see an awful l ot of oil slip with

9 respect to those. And that really has caused a

10 significant challenge to those things. So there are

11 opportunities to qualify those and to u se those on

12 stationary engines, but we have seen ve ry few applications

13 of that in the thing.

14 But the issues -- as far as br inging the ag

15 engines in, how we establish the statio nary portable

16 engine program on that, there was a lot of work with the

17 Nisei Farmers League and those things o n what would be the

18 best way to handle those. And that reg ulation is set up

19 particularly along the line of looking at long-term

20 replacement, particularly for the very old engines, as

21 compared to the retrofit, because we ju st simply did not

22 have many takers in that technology loo king at those Tier

23 0 engines.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: That wou ld seem to make

25 sense. Yeah. Thanks.85

1 I'm going to close the record at this point since

2 we have the staff comments and the test imony and the

3 written comments in the record. We can close this record

4 and begin the discussion about what we want to do with the

5 proposed rule.

6 The understanding here then is that we would not

7 be receiving any more written or oral c omments on this

8 item unless and until we deal with the 15-day comment

9 period; is that correct? Yes. Okay.

10 This is now -- before we move into actual

11 discussion on the rule, we need to make sure that we've

12 disclosed any ex parte communications t hat we may have

13 received on this.

14 I'll start off by saying I did n't receive any.

15 Did anyone receive any?

16 Supervisor Yeager.

17 BOARD MEMBER YEAGER: I met wi th Bill Gaines of

18 Transfer Flow and Glen Toney and Virgin ia Walker from the

19 Jamison Group talking about this item, this regulation, as

20 well as the next one as well.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. G reat. Thanks.

22 Anybody else? No. All right. That's that then.

23 We can move on to proposal on the regulation.

24 Should we -- I think the best process i s to make a motion

25 and then add any amendments that people want to add to it.86

1 Ms. Berg, did you want to move the resolution?

2 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I'll so mo ve the resolution.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Do we ha ve a second?

4 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: I'll sec ond.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. N ow, let's think

6 about any possible changes we'd like to see.

7 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Could staf f just remind me

8 what 15-day changes you're requesting?

9 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: Yes.

10 We're proposing to add snow blowers, pr esuming they pass

11 the test for technical feasibility and cost. We're also

12 proposing to work with CAPCOA and the s takeholders to

13 address the issue of how to issue a per mit in the context

14 of an enforcement action.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I'm glad you mentioned that

16 you would work with the stakeholders as well. That's a

17 good idea.

18 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: And

19 then those are the two that we had prop osed.

20 And then the open questions ha d to do with

21 recordkeeping issues for the rental com panies and then the

22 issue associated with larger fleets.

23 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Just so I understand that the

24 non-compliant Tier 0 engine issue would only come into

25 play if there was an enforcement action ?87

1 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: Yes.

2 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Thank you.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. D id you want to make

4 any proposed changes then?

5 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I would li ke to add the

6 proposed change for staff to work with the stakeholders

7 regarding the rental equipment and look ing at the fact

8 that what we want is to capture data fo r long-term

9 contracts and at what point that gather ing that data makes

10 sense and doesn't overburden the indust ry.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think I can say that I

12 see general head nodding in the directi on of trying to

13 further simplify this particular report ing requirement.

14 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I don't wa nt to be

15 prescriptive, because that isn't my goa l.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Good. S o I think that

17 amendment should go in.

18 The last issue is really the o ne that was raised

19 by Supervisor Roberts. And that is the question of do we

20 want to try to extend this change to th e entire industry

21 as opposed to singling out for the bene fit of the smaller

22 companies.

23 And this is one of those great philosophical

24 dilemmas. I don't think there is a rig ht answer from a

25 technical perspective or even an econom ic theory88

1 perspective, although it would help to know more about

2 sort of how this industry works in deta il probably,

3 whether the small companies really comp ete with the bigger

4 companies, and thereby would be getting an advantage that

5 would allow them to take business away versus just the

6 questions of generic fairness that alwa ys is a legitimate

7 issue.

8 But I think the staff has stat ed a good case for

9 focusing here on smaller businesses as opposed to the fact

10 that all businesses obviously are affec ted by the state of

11 the economy.

12 I don't know if there's any ad ditional thoughts

13 or comments on this. I'm sorry.

14 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: I clear ly support just

15 extending this across the board. I thi nk the numbers --

16 while we're capturing most of the numbe rs, it's not going

17 to add a lot of numbers. But I think t here are going to

18 be some businesses that are going to be impacted by this,

19 and I think the relief would make a big difference in

20 their operations. For that reason, I w ould like to extend

21 the same rule for all.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yes, sor ry. I was pointing

23 down to the far end there to the mayor.

24 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Let m e agree with the

25 position but ask what is the argument a gainst the premise89

1 and recommendation? What is staff argu ing against?

2 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: Well,

3 part of the rational was to look at tho se that had the

4 resources or that were the least likely to be able to

5 comply. And so when we did the breakdo wn between the

6 small, medium, and large, we felt that we were capturing

7 most of those companies that were in th e worst position to

8 be able to comply with the regulation.

9 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: This didn't include the

10 pain that everybody is now -- okay.

11 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER:

12 Right. And we thought the other thing is that in part

13 because of the downturn in the economy that the larger

14 companies had enough engines they would not have to run

15 Tier 0 engines. If they didn't have a choice, they

16 wouldn't run them. They would run more efficient ones

17 anyway.

18 And we were looking at sort of the competitive

19 advantage/disadvantage issue for those companies that had

20 taken actions. We think that they're p ositioned to comply

21 with the regulation now and all this wo uld simply do would

22 allow them to bring back in engines tha t shouldn't be

23 running right now anyway.

24 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CH IEF DONOHOUE: The

25 other point is the potential health imp act and the90

1 emissions associated with Tier 0 engine s that have NOx

2 emissions that are three to four times the cleaner engines

3 and PM emissions more than five times.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So we're trying to strike a

5 balance here between continuing progres s on cleaning up

6 the air and allowing for a recognition of the fact that

7 there is particular hardships being exp erienced by this

8 sector of the industry as a whole that are at least

9 distinct from the whole industry. All right. I think we

10 better -- sorry.

11 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: In that last comment, you

12 mentioned that a company might run thei r Tier 0s instead

13 of their Tier 1s. Is this any economic reason why they

14 would do that?

15 If you look at the modern size businesses, you're

16 talking about 45, 50 percent of those c ompanies have Tier

17 0 engines. Why would they deferentiall y run Tier 0s

18 instead of 1, 2, and 3s?

19 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: They

20 would only do it if it was a matter of convenience. A lot

21 of the larger companies have engines sc attered at over the

22 state, whether they're supporting cell towers or whatever.

23 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: It's my understanding that

24 the newer engines are not only less emi ssions but more

25 fuel efficient. It seems like they wou ld want to use91

1 their Tier 1, 2, and 3, I mean, newer m otors rather than

2 the older motors. And the argument is not too strong.

3 And I would kind of support the idea of the whole industry

4 wide.

5 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: You

6 would think so, but I think it's a loca tion convenience

7 issue. If they have a Tier 0 that's av ailable and they

8 don't have to move a Tier 1 as far to g et to a location,

9 then the economic benefit of running a Tier 1 over Tier 0

10 is lost.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: It's an anecdotal

12 observation. I don't think there's any scientific data

13 one way or the other on this point. Al l right.

14 Well, I think we have a motion and a second for

15 an amendment to extend the rule to the industry as a

16 whole. And I think the best thing to d o is to just call

17 for a vote on the amendment before we t ake up the main

18 motion, unless there's any reason not t o do it.

19 CHIEF COUNSEL PETER: Just if we do either a roll

20 call or hand vote so both the clerk and the court reporter

21 knows exactly what the vote was.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I was go ing to ask for

23 actually a roll call vote on this item.

24 And -- I thought it was you. You didn't

25 formally, but I was assuming that you w ere seconding the92

1 motion. Taking it for granted. Okay.

2 We're not on the main motion o r the rule. We're

3 just on the amendment that would extend the rule from

4 small businesses to all businesses that are covered by

5 this rule.

6 Okay. Clerk will please call the roll.

7 A yes vote means you want to e xtend the rule --

8 open up the benefits of the extension t o all firms that

9 are covered, as opposed to as the staff has made the case

10 for why it should be limited to small b usinesses.

11 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Dr. Bal mes?

12 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: Yes.

13 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. Ber g?

14 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Yes

15 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. D'A damo?

16 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: No.

17 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Ms. Ken nard?

18 Mayor Loveridge?

19 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Aye.

20 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Supervi sor Roberts?

21 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Yes.

22 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Profess or Sperling?

23 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: Yes.

24 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Dr. Tel les?

25 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Yes.93

1 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Supervi sor Yeager?

2 BOARD MEMBER YEAGER: Yes.

3 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Chairma n Nichols?

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: No.

5 BOARD CLERK ANDREONI: Yes vot e wins. Motion

6 passes seven to two without Kennard.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think we can probably

8 adopt the Resolution on a voice vote th en. So all in

9 favor please say aye.

10 (Aye)

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Any oppo sed?

12 All right. Thank you.

13 (Thereupon a recess was taken. )

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: The othe r Board members who

15 are not sitting with me are in the back room where we have

16 a sound system available to them, in ca se anybody is

17 wondering.

18 Coming up next on the agenda a re staff's proposed

19 amendments to the diesel emission contr ol strategy

20 verification procedure. Since diesel p articulate matter

21 was first identified as a toxic air con taminant back in

22 1998 and with subsequent approval of th e Diesel Risk

23 Reduction Plan in 2000, this Board has had as one of its

24 primary goals the reduction of emission s of diesel

25 particulate matter from the existing fl eet.94

1 Meeting these emissions reduct ion goals had not

2 only required the Board to put in place emission standards

3 for new diesel engines, but also numero us regulations

4 specifically targeting emission reducti ons from existing

5 diesel engines because these engines ar e so long lived and

6 work so hard out there in our state.

7 To effectively support ARB's i n-use diesel engine

8 regulations, in 2002, the Board approve d a procedure for

9 verifying that diesel retrofits are eff ective and durable.

10 The verification procedure lays out the requirements that

11 retrofit manufacturers must follow if t hey wish to

12 participate in the California market.

13 Since it was originally approv ed, the

14 verification procedure has been subsequ ently amended by

15 the Board several times to improve its effectiveness and

16 strengthen the health benefits it provi des. The procedure

17 was last amended in January 2008. Sinc e that time, the

18 staff has identified a number of elemen ts that could be

19 improved or clarified in order to impro ve our ability to

20 evaluate these retrofits while providin g improved

21 performance for the end users.

22 To address this issue, staff i s going to be

23 proposing several amendments. And Mr. Goldstene will

24 begin the staff presentation.

25 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Thank you, Chairman95

1 Nichols.

2 The verification procedure is used by staff to

3 verify that diesel retrofits achieve re al and durable

4 reductions in emissions of particulate matter and oxides

5 of nitrogen.

6 The verification procedure sup ports numerous

7 in-use diesel emission control regulati ons by ensuring the

8 performance of emission control technol ogies to be

9 installed on in-use diesel engines. To date, staff has

10 verified over 150 diesel retrofits, inc luding subsequent

11 extensions to existing verifications th at can reduce

12 emissions of diesel PM and, in some cas es, provide NOx

13 reductions as well.

14 Over the last two years, staff has worked with

15 industry to identify a number of improv ements to the

16 procedure that will assist both manufac turers and end

17 users. These proposed amendments are i ntended to further

18 the objectives of the verification prog ram while

19 strengthening protections for system pu rchasers.

20 The proposed amendments will i mprove the process

21 of matching retrofits with appropriate vehicles,

22 strengthen ARB's ability to quickly and effectively

23 address high warrantee claim rates, and provide additional

24 information to fleets on the maintenanc e of the retrofits.

25 The proposed amendments will r equire96

1 manufacturers to demonstrate compliance with state

2 industrial safety requirements, provide better information

3 to staff regarding durability performan ce, and clarify

4 that a retrofit may only be sold if all the conditions of

5 the governing Executive Order and the p rocedures are met.

6 I'll now ask Paul Henderick of the Mobile Source

7 Control Division to provide the staff p resentation. Paul.

8 (Thereupon an overhead present ation was

9 presented as follows.)

10 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: Good

11 morning, Chairman Nichols and member of the Board.

12 Today, staff will propose a nu mber of amendments

13 to the diesel retrofit verification pro cedure. These

14 amendments will improve the performance of diesel

15 retrofits in the field, provide better information to

16 staff during the verification process, and better support

17 the in-use diesel fleet rules.

18 --o0o--

19 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: First, I

20 will provide some background on the ver ification

21 procedure.

22 Next, I will discuss the propo sed amendments,

23 followed by staff's assessment of econo mic and

24 environmental impacts.

25 My presentation will conclude with a97

1 recommendation to the Board.

2 --o0o--

3 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: I will now

4 provide background information on the p rocedure as well a

5 status update on retrofits that are cur rently verified.

6 --o0o--

7 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: The

8 verification procedure was approved by the Board in May of

9 2002 to support the Diesel Risk Reducti on Plan and its

10 associated fleet rules. It is critical to ensure that the

11 diesel retrofits used by fleets to comp ly with these rules

12 achieve real reductions in emissions of diesel PM and NOx.

13 The verification procedure fills this n eed. It is used by

14 staff to verify the performance of retr ofits for a broad

15 range of diesel engines, including heav y-duty on-road

16 trucks, off-road vehicles and equipment , stationary

17 engines, and marine vessels. In additi on to performance,

18 verification also ensures that retrofit s are durable and

19 gives end users substantial warrantee p rotection.

20 ARB verification is not the on ly verification

21 program that evaluates diesel retrofits . Existing

22 programs run by U.S. EPA and VERT in Sw itzerland perform

23 similar functions, and ARB staff commun icate regularly

24 with staff in these other programs. Wh ile neither of

25 these programs meets all of the needs o f ARB's fleet98

1 rules, they nevertheless have provided useful input and

2 experience over the years.

3 I will now give a brief overvi ew of the

4 verification process to give you a bett er sense for how

5 our program works.

6 --o0o--

7 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: If a

8 retrofit manufacturer wishes to sell it s product as a

9 compliance option in California, it mus t first obtain

10 verification from ARB. In order to do so, an applicant

11 must submit a complete application, inc luding an

12 appropriate test plan. ARB staff then reviews this

13 information and approves the test plan. The applicant is

14 responsible for conducting all appropri ate testing and

15 submitting the test data. ARB reviews all information and

16 issues an Executive Order if everything is complete and

17 supports the verification.

18 --o0o--

19 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: Many diesel

20 retrofits have gone through this proces s, and over 50 are

21 currently verified for a variety of app lications. On-road

22 and off-road diesel engines each have o ver 20 systems

23 verified. Ten systems are verified for stationary

24 engines. And there is even one retrofi t verified for

25 marine vessels. Two-thirds of these re trofits are diesel99

1 particulate filters that achieve a PM r eduction of over 85

2 percent.

3 --o0o--

4 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: I will now

5 discuss staff's proposed amendments.

6 Since the start of the program , staff has

7 continued to gain valuable experience a nd stakeholder

8 feedback that point out ways in which t he program can be

9 improved. Today's amendments reflect t his input.

10 --o0o--

11 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: To

12 summarize, staff's proposed amendments will improve the

13 matching of retrofits to vehicles, impr ove end-user

14 protections, improve design and data re quirement, and

15 increase program flexibility.

16 --o0o--

17 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: To provide

18 background on the first of our proposed amendments, I will

19 discuss the importance of properly matc hing a retrofit to

20 a vehicle, which is a key factor in the retrofit's

21 success.

22 Each retrofit has certain cond itions as listed in

23 the Executive Order, which must be met for it to function

24 properly. A poor match may occur if th ese conditions are

25 not met, resulting in a retrofit malfun ction. A100

1 malfunctioning retrofit may require add itional maintenance

2 and potentially impair operation of the engine and

3 vehicle. Also, such a malfunction may not be covered by

4 the warrantee. Thus, the cost of a veh icle retrofit

5 mismatch is potentially high.

6 Currently, the verification pr ocedure does not

7 address how a given vehicle must be eva luated prior to

8 installation of a retrofit. As a resul t, different

9 manufacturers and installers employ dif ferent methods.

10 --o0o--

11 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: Given the

12 ramifications of having a mismatched ve hicle and retrofit

13 combination and the fact that the verif ication procedure

14 does not currently provide direction on how to assess a

15 candidate vehicle, staff is proposing t o amend the

16 procedure to address this.

17 For retrofits with a temperatu re criterion, such

18 as passive DPFs and SCR systems, staff proposes that every

19 candidate engine must be assessed prior to retrofit. If

20 the retrofit reduces PM alone, staff's proposal allows for

21 an alternative approach which employs a representative

22 sampling scheme to reduce the number of similar vehicles

23 that need to be assessed.

24 Staff is also proposing that t he installer must

25 ensure that the engine is well maintain ed prior to101

1 retrofit. In particular, the installer must determine if

2 the engine is consuming excessive amoun ts of oil, which

3 can adversely impact retrofit performan ce. Finally,

4 engine assessment records must be maint ained by the

5 installer.

6 This proposed amendment unders cores the

7 importance of pre-installation assessme nt and will serve

8 to reduce problems in the field by esta blishing minimum

9 requirements.

10 --o0o--

11 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: Staff is

12 also proposing several amendments that will strengthen

13 end-user protections and provide better assurance for

14 successful retrofits.

15 First, staff proposes that ret rofit manufacturers

16 be required to provide end users with s ufficient

17 maintenance information to enable them to properly

18 maintain the retrofits themselves. Thi s will give end

19 users more choices when it comes to dec iding how to

20 fulfill their maintenance needs.

21 Staff is also proposing that w hen retrofit

22 manufacturers perform durability testin g on their devices,

23 they demonstrate that they can fulfill all OSHA industrial

24 safety requirements for off-road vehicl es.

25 Lastly, staff is proposing sev eral clarifications102

1 regarding the scope and coverage of the procedure's

2 warrantee protections.

3 First, staff is proposing to c larify that all ARB

4 verified retrofits must come with the s ame warrantee

5 protections, regardless of where they a re sold. This will

6 ensure that out-of-state fleets get the same warrantee

7 protections that California fleets rece ive.

8 Staff also proposes to clarify that the

9 installation warrantee covers any swapp ed components, such

10 as spare filter bodies that are used by fleets to reduce

11 vehicle downtime when filters are remov ed for cleaning.

12 And, finally, staff is proposi ng to clarify the

13 potential remedial actions available to ARB in the event a

14 retrofit has excessive warrantee claims . These actions

15 could include modifying, revoking, or s uspending a

16 verification.

17 --o0o--

18 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: To obtain

19 better information on the performance o f retrofit systems,

20 staff is proposing several changes to r etrofit design and

21 data collection requirements in the pro cedure.

22 First, staff is proposing that retrofits with an

23 exhaust temperature criterion must be a ble to measure and

24 record in-use exhaust temperature and b ack pressure data

25 as well as any error codes that occur. These additional103

1 requirements will help to ensure that d iagnostic data are

2 available to help in troubleshooting re trofit performance

3 and in the warrantee resolution process . Most retrofit

4 manufacturers already voluntarily incor porate this

5 functionality into their systems.

6 Staff also proposes to require that date, time,

7 and engine speed data be collected duri ng demonstrations

8 and submitted as part of verification. Staff will use

9 this information to form a more complet e picture of how a

10 retrofit performs when used in the fiel d. This proposed

11 change is a small additional burden to applicants but

12 provides valuable information to ARB in its evaluation of

13 their products.

14 The final amendments I will di scuss serve to

15 increase the flexibility of how retrofi ts are used in the

16 field.

17 --o0o--

18 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: Currently,

19 the procedure only allows component swa pping within the

20 same common ownership fleet. Said anot her way, a fleet

21 may not share spare retrofit components with another

22 fleet. Staff proposes to remove this r estriction by

23 allowing component swapping of identica l retrofit

24 components across different fleets unde r certain

25 circumstances. This will give end-user s more maintenance104

1 options by allowing for the creation of a larger pool of

2 spare components, likely through a deal er network.

3 Second, the procedure currentl y provides no

4 guidance on how to repower a vehicle wh ich has already

5 been retrofit. Staff proposes allowing such repowers,

6 provided the same basic conditions that applied to the

7 original retrofit are satisfied. This proposal thereby

8 defines a path for allowing the existin g retrofit to stay

9 on the vehicle.

10 Staff notes that because of a manufacturer's

11 warrantee and in-use compliance obligat ions, both of these

12 practices would require approval from A RB and the

13 manufacturer.

14 Finally, staff is proposing to extend a

15 compliance deadline in the procedure. The procedure

16 currently requires that all retrofits b e designed such

17 that they can only be installed in one direction as of

18 January 1, 2010. Retrofits that do not meet this

19 requirement currently cannot be install ed.

20 Due to lower sales than expect ed arising from

21 market instabilities, there is an exist ing inventory of

22 retrofits that do not comply with this requirement and so

23 cannot be sold or installed. Staff the refore proposes a

24 sell-through period to December 31st, 2 010, for this

25 existing inventory.105

1 Note that this date is a six-m onth extension from

2 the original date of July 1, 2010, that was noticed in the

3 staff report.

4 All remaining amendments in st aff's proposal are

5 minor clarifications that are described in the staff

6 report.

7 --o0o--

8 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: In

9 developing the proposed amendments, sta ff held a public

10 workshop last June in El Monte to solic it input from all

11 interested stakeholders. The workshop was well attended

12 by representatives from the emissions c ontrol

13 manufacturing industry, among others.

14 In addition to the workshop, s taff also met with

15 the association for this industry, MECA , and its

16 individual member companies. Staff con sidered comments

17 brought forth by MECA and individual co mpanies alike and

18 incorporated appropriate comments into the proposed

19 amendments.

20 --o0o--

21 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: Since the

22 initial release of the staff report, st aff has identified

23 a number of minor 15-day changes.

24 First, where the performance o f a retrofit system

25 will not be impacted, staff proposes to allow a retrofit106

1 manufacturer to request that a system c omponent not have

2 to comply with the unidirectional desig n requirement.

3 This option does not extend to diesel p articulate filters.

4 As previously noted, staff is also proposing to

5 extend the deadline to sell non-unidire ctional retrofits

6 by six months to December 31st of this year.

7 Another 15-day change proposed by staff is to

8 clarify that only routine maintenance i nformation must be

9 provided to end users. This clarificat ion is based on

10 comments from retrofit manufacturers an d MECA.

11 Finally, staff does not want t o potentially

12 expose end users to enforcement action if they fail to

13 keep records for oil consumption. Staf f has modified the

14 proposed amendments to advise end-users to follow good

15 engine maintenance practices, which inc ludes keeping oil

16 consumption records. The new language also reminds end

17 users that failure to keep the engine w ell maintained may

18 be grounds for denial of a warranty cla im.

19 A copy of these proposed 15-da y changes has been

20 provided to the Board and is also avail able on the table

21 outside the hearing room.

22 --o0o--

23 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: I will now

24 discuss the impacts of our proposal and then provide

25 staff's recommendation.107

1 --o0o--

2 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: Staff does

3 not anticipate any significant impacts from the proposed

4 amendments. There is, however, some po tential for

5 end-user cost savings and the creation of new services and

6 businesses. These potential benefits m ay result from

7 having fewer restrictions on the swappi ng of retrofit

8 components, better assessment of vehicl es prior to

9 retrofit, an alternative to data loggin g each and every

10 engine, and end-user access to comprehe nsive maintenance

11 procedures.

12 --o0o--

13 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST HENDE RICK: In

14 conclusion, staff believes that the pro posed amendments to

15 the procedure will improve the verifica tion program and

16 enable it to better support the fleet r ules.

17 Therefore, staff recommends th at this proposal be

18 adopted along with the 15-day changes j ust described.

19 This concludes my presentation . Thank you.

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u very much.

21 Are there any questions before we go to public

22 comment? If not, let's proceed to the public. We have

23 three witnesses to sign up. If you wan t to speak and

24 didn't sign up, please see the clerk an d fill out a card.

25 We have in order number one Bi ll Gaines once108

1 again and then Dr. Rasto Brezny from ME CA and Tom Swenson

2 from Cleaire.

3 MR. GAINES: Thank you, Madam Chairman.

4 Regarding the verification pro cedure, it was

5 first written in 2000. Since that time , technology has

6 increased substantially on DPFs, certai nly on on-road.

7 One of the issues that we see is in the current regulation

8 is the use of method five testing. Tha t's a test that has

9 been a 15-year-old test, been used to m easure particulate

10 matter in industrial power stacks, and we believe that's

11 not necessary anymore.

12 The cost of method five tests to perform that

13 specific test is over $5,000. We've go t two quotes from

14 two labs, certified California labs, to determine that.

15 The cost -- and we got the quote from o ne particular

16 testing lab to obtain verification proc edure was $250,00.

17 We understand that number can go up as high as $1 million

18 If you notice in your own staf f testimony, there

19 are only ten stationary retrofit kits c urrently available.

20 And there's good reason for that. Ther e are a variety of

21 stationary equipment in the marketplace today. And to

22 spend a quarter of a million dollars up to a million

23 dollars for verifying a system makes th e cost of that

24 system significantly more expensive.

25 Getting real world costs to re place a stationary109

1 engine and DPF is $43,000. City of Chi co has quotes on

2 that, and you're welcome to take a look at that. That's a

3 lot more than 175 per horsepower.

4 Regarding stationary engines, they are a low-use

5 engine. They are used 300 to 400 hours a year. Diesel

6 engines can last several thousand hours before they can be

7 modified. And they are very simple to be modified by the

8 way. If they are oil, you can change o ut the sleeves, et

9 cetera.

10 In Butte County, which is wher e I've got my data,

11 there are 13 different engines, 45 diff erent horsepowers

12 on just stationary equipment. If you d o the math, that's

13 a significant amount of different kinds of equipment that

14 are out there.

15 We do believe you can develop these systems using

16 current technology, for an example like a CMM machine.

17 And we believe if you except the on-roa d testing data for

18 DPFs, I think that should be acceptable , and in lieu of

19 following the verification for getting your OE.

20 I applaud the fact they're loo king at more data

21 and that they have a diagnostic trouble code. That's

22 exactly what we suggest. Thank you.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: All righ t. Thank you very

24 much.

25 Dr. Brezny.110

1 DR. BREZNY: Thank you, Chairm an Nichols and

2 members of the Board. Thank you for th e opportunity to

3 speak today in support of this proposal

.

4 I'm Rasto Brezny, the Deputy D irector for the

5 Manufacturers of Emission Controls Asso ciation.

6 MECA is a nonprofit associatio n made up of the

7 leading manufacturers of emission contr ol technologies for

8 motor vehicles, including the majority of the verified PM

9 and PM plus NOx technologies that are a vailable today for

10 in-use, on-road, and off-road vehicles and engines.

11 I want to start off by thankin g ARB's

12 verification staff for their hard work and diligence in

13 putting together this proposal. I thin k it has a lot of

14 very good improvements.

15 We've submitted our detailed w ritten comments,

16 and today I just want to highlight a fe w of our

17 recommendations.

18 Again, I want to thank staff f or including in the

19 15-day changes the routine maintenance requirements for

20 cleaning these filters. We feel that t here's certainly a

21 role for third party and end users to d o the maintenance

22 and clean these filters. However, ther e are situations,

23 for example, where the engine or the de vice is not

24 maintained properly, in which case a cl eaning will require

25 a more in-depth diagnosis by a trained technician in order111

1 to avoid damaging these devices.

2 Along these lines, request tha t language be added

3 in the 15-day changes that outlines the responsibility of

4 the cleaning service provider in the ev ent that damage is

5 incurred due to improper handling.

6 We also would support a filter cleaner registry

7 similar to what's available today for r egistered

8 installers on the ARB website for on-ro ad and off-road

9 retrofit devices.

10 In the pre-installation compat ibility section of

11 the proposal, installers are required t o review specific

12 documents such as oil consumption recor ds and parts

13 replacement records. And our members' experience has been

14 in most cases that the oil consumption records in

15 particular are not available, and that leaves the

16 installer with no choice but to reject the candidate

17 vehicle for retrofit.

18 We suggest these requirements be made flexible

19 enough to leave the specific assessment strategy to the

20 experience of the installer. So that i f the oil records

21 are available, they can use that, but t hey have other

22 database and information that they have developed over the

23 years to assess the proper operation of the engine.

24 We also requested some flexibi lity in in-use

25 pre-installation assessment to allow ex perience across112

1 fleets to be shared when doing the pre- installation

2 assessment, because primarily in off-ro ad fleets very

3 rarely are there five of the same vehic le and model within

4 a specific fleet. And this reduces the cost for the

5 pre-installation assessment primarily f or these fleets.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u. Those sound

7 like renewable suggestions that the sta ff would entertain

8 during the 15-day process then. Thank you.

9 Okay. Mr. Swenson, and then w e have one more

10 witness also. Randal Friedman has sign ed up.

11 MR. SWENSON: Thank you. Tom Swenson, Cleaire

12 Advanced Emission Controls.

13 We provided written comments. I wanted to just

14 cover two.

15 Rasto did a wonderful summary on the maintenance,

16 providing the maintenance practices. W e have no issue

17 with providing those maintenance practi ces. But

18 consistent with the MECA comments, we w ould expect if

19 somebody breaks it that they would be r esponsible for the

20 cost and it wouldn't fall then back on our warranty.

21 The other is around the preins tallation. We're

22 being required under this proposal to c heck oil

23 consumption. In addition to that thoug h is to be required

24 to review the specific maintenance reco rds on each engine

25 to see if they were consistent with the manufacturer113

1 requirements. That will be very burden some, and we'll

2 have to go to the fleets and get indivi dual records for

3 individual engines. And, frankly, it f eels like we're

4 becoming sort of the maintenance police if you will about

5 whether or not they have maintained the ir engine properly.

6 And we believe that they should deliver us an engine that

7 is in good maintenance.

8 We have provided some basic ch ecks that you can

9 do and, in fact, we are doing now to kn ow whether or not

10 there are gross issues with the engines , such as visual

11 smokes and oil residue in the pipe, tho se sorts of things.

12 And we would encourage staff to review those and

13 potentially adopt them.

14 Thank you.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

16 Mr. Friedman.

17 MR. FRIEDMAN: Madam Chairman, Board members,

18 Randal Friedman on behalf of the U.S. N avy.

19 As I'm sure you're aware from past appearances

20 here at the department, the Navy is one of the larger

21 users of biodiesel in the state. And, in fact, our new

22 Secretary of the Navy has issued a soli d challenge to

23 significantly increase the use of biofu els. Along those

24 lines, the Department of Defense is one of the leading

25 funders of next generation research of biofuels from114

1 cellulosic feedstocks to deal with non- food.

2 Where does this fit into this? We continue to

3 have a longstanding concern that we wil l be able to use

4 current biodiesel and future biofuels i n our vehicles that

5 have retrofits. We've had longstanding concerns about

6 regulatory issues, warranty issues. I know this has been

7 dealt with before, but I guess I'm seek ing some continued

8 assurance that this is still on your st aff's radar and

9 that as you consider amendments to your verification

10 process that, in fact, those of us incl uding cities,

11 universities, and others that are using biodiesel in their

12 fleets can continue to do future retrof its and not worry

13 about consistency and warrantee issues and the like.

14 Thank you.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

16 Mr. Goldstene is nodding his h ead vigorously that

17 it's on his radar screen and it will co ntinue to be on his

18 radar screen; correct?

19 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRAT EGIES BRANCH CHIEF

20 WHITE: Madam Chair, yes.

21 I would add we already have an existing program

22 in place to allow biodiesel to be used with a number of

23 different retrofits that are verified t oday. And we will

24 continue to do so in the future.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: All righ t. That's helpful115

1 to know.

2 That concludes the public test imony. And so I

3 believe we can close the record on this item. It would be

4 reopened again when the 15-day notice i s issued. And at

5 that point, people can comment on what' s in the 15-day

6 notice. But this will close the record as far as this

7 proceeding is concerned.

8 And I guess I should ask for e x partes at this

9 point. Are there any ex partes on this item?

10 I believe Supervisor Yeager pr eviously disclosed

11 his meetings.

12 No others. Okay.

13 Than let's proceed to the disc ussion. So this

14 issue about who bears the burden of mak ing sure the engine

15 is in decent shape before a retrofit is put on it is

16 obviously an important question. And I wonder maybe,

17 Eric, if you can respond to that.

18 HEAVY-DUTY DIESEL IN-USE STRAT EGIES BRANCH CHIEF

19 WHITE: Yes.

20 You know, certainly the goal h ere is to make sure

21 that it's a good candidate, the engine is a good candidate

22 to be retrofit. And one of the things we found as we've

23 started to see more and more retrofits be introduced into

24 the fleet is oil consumption can cause issues down the

25 line if it's excessive. So we're looki ng for a way in116

1 which to try to identify that up front.

2 And I think the commenters, bo th today as well as

3 the comment letters, have provided some good suggestions

4 of alternatives we can go back and look at. So we are

5 committed to go back and during the 15- day process look at

6 some of those and look to incorporate s ome of those as

7 well into the regulation.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: And in t erms of the test

9 procedure itself, again Mr. Gaines is l ooking for

10 something simpler, cheaper, faster, I g uess,

11 understandably so.

12 I guess my view on that would be that the staff

13 has certainly tried hard to fix the pro cedures so that

14 they're in not a bottleneck towards get ting this program

15 done. But I think we as a Board have a long history of

16 being very, very careful about creating a market for

17 devices that will later on cause proble ms as well as

18 potentially not do the job they were ce rtified to do. So

19 I think the balance really should be in favor of making it

20 as rigorous as possible for the benefit of the consumer.

21 With that, I guess I'll ask fo r the motion on the

22 resolution then.

23 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: So move d.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Is there a second?

25 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Second.117

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Any furt her discussion on

2 the part of the Board?

3 If not, will all in favor plea se say aye.

4 (Ayes)

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Any oppo sed?

6 Very good. Thank you very muc h.

7 Our next item is a fairly leng thy one I believe

8 and it's about noon time. So I'm going to declare it

9 lunch break time, and we'll resume at 1 :00. Thanks,

10 everybody.

11 (Thereupon a lunch recess was taken

12 at 11:48 a.m.)

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25118

1 AFTERNOON SESSION

2 1:09 p.m.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: All righ t, ladies and

4 gentlemen, we are ready to resume our m eeting.

5 This is the seventh in a serie s of semi-annual

6 updates to the Board. And I think in t he past the Board

7 has heard much of the evidence that cli mate change poses

8 risk to public health as well the econo my and the

9 environment. California's ability to c ope with climate

10 impacts depends in part on the pace and magnitude of the

11 global climate changes, as well on the success of global

12 mitigation efforts.

13 However, because we are alread y facing risks

14 associated with climate variability and because further

15 impacts are, we are now told, unavoidab le, adaptation is

16 also needed to compliment mitigation.

17 For this presentation, we invi ted Tony Brunello

18 to share an overview of the 2009 Califo rnia Climate

19 Adaptation Strategy with us.

20 Mr. Brunello serves as the Dep uty Secretary for

21 Climate Change and Energy for the Calif ornia Natural

22 Resources Agency, formerly known as the Resources Agency.

23 And the Natural Resources Agency has ta ken the lead in

24 developing the 2009 California Climate Adaptation Strategy

25 discussion report working with the Clim ate Action Team, of119

1 which ARB is also a member. The Climat e Action Team is

2 the administration-wide program that wa s created by the

3 Governor and which is chaired by our Ca l/EPA Secretary

4 Linda Adams.

5 Mr. Goldstene, would you pleas e introduce this

6 item?

7 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Thank you, Chairman

8 Nichols.

9 Today's Climate Change Adaptat ion presentation

10 discusses statewide efforts to respond to the actual and

11 expected impacts of climate change. Th e development of

12 California's first comprehensive climat e change adaptation

13 strategy was directed by Governor Schwa rzenegger in an

14 Executive Order and spearheaded by the State's Natural

15 Resources Agency.

16 Tony Brunello, as Mary just me ntioned, leads all

17 climate change and energy activity at t he California

18 Natural Resources Agency. Prior to his current position,

19 he worked extensively on climate and en ergy-related issues

20 developing greenhouse gas mitigation pr ojects and

21 conducting analysis around the world fo r public and

22 private sector clients.

23 I'm very happy to introduce Mr . Brunello. Tony.

24 (Thereupon an overhead present ation was

25 presented as follows.)120

1 DEPUTY SECRETARY BRUNELLO: Gr eat. Thanks,

2 James.

3 Chairman Nichols and honorable Board members, I

4 really appreciate the opportunity today to speak to you a

5 little bit about the topic of climate a daptation. I'm not

6 sure how much you have been familiar wi th it. I know that

7 many of the reports you have frequently talk about the

8 issue of climate impacts. And I've bee n on panels, et

9 cetera, with a number of you. So again I really

10 appreciate to talk a little bit more ab out this. I hope

11 to keep my presentation as tight and pr ecise as possible

12 to answer any questions you guys might have.

13 A key thing about why I was ex cited to come today

14 is to highlight the fact of how importa nt you all and your

15 staff are to the topic of climate adapt ation. Whether you

16 know it or not, most of the actions you 're pushing and

17 promoting are linked directly with clim ate adaptation.

18 Reducing water use, promoting renewable energy, all of

19 these things are climate adaptation str ategies.

20 In a nutshell, what I'm going to talk about today

21 is a little bit on some of the climate impacts. I think

22 you guys have been flooded enough with that I'm sure with

23 plenty of presentations. But just to g ive a context of

24 where we got to where we are to talk a little bit about

25 the process for developing strategies t o adapt to those121

1 impacts and then what we're doing next and where I think

2 is the best place for ARB engaged.

3 Next slide.

4 --o0o--

5 DEPUTY SECRETARY BRUNELLO: On e of the things

6 that really helped drive the adaptation strategy from the

7 beginning was the fact we are already s eeing climate

8 impacts. This is a graph you've probab ly seen frequently,

9 but it's showing in San Francisco we've already seen seven

10 inches of sea level rise there. We've seen an increase in

11 temperatures in certain parts of the st ate, changes in

12 precipitation, et cetera. But really t he driver is to

13 show in the past we've already seen cli mate impacts.

14 What's more troubling is looking out to some of the

15 projections that we're seeing in the fu ture where sea

16 level rise, just using one example, cou ld be up to almost

17 55 inches by the end of the century. A s you can see,

18 that's probably about almost ten times what we've already

19 seen. It's a similar issue -- next sli de.

20 --o0o--

21 DEPUTY SECRETARY BRUNELLO: Th is is now looking

22 out to projections for the future. Thi s was put together

23 by -- funded by the California PEER Pro gram, also in

24 cooperation with some of your researche rs here at ARB.

25 But the PEER Program has been funding a nalyses over the122

1 last ten years on climate change resear ch. And what

2 they've been able to do is to fund a nu mber of

3 universities across the state who have taken a lot of the

4 global climate impact models and downsc aled it to

5 California. Probably just five years a go, if we had

6 looked at a map of California and how p rojections were

7 these climate models, essentially Calif ornia would have

8 looked like four big boxes. And they t ry to predict how

9 the climate would shift in those boxes.

10 Today, I can say some of the m odels have we

11 actually downscaled to about a seven-by -seven square

12 kilometer radius, and I think we have s ome of the best

13 information anywhere in the world of cl imate impacts to a

14 specific geographic location.

15 So what this is showing here i s that you can see

16 historical temperatures. And in the mi ddle graph, they've

17 given us a range. But it basically say s the projected

18 increase is around two to five degrees in the next 40

19 years. And then about four to nine deg ree change in

20 temperature on the average over the nex t century.

21 So temperature is what most of the science and

22 the scientists can agree on that it wil l increase. There

23 will be a range. But most of the adapt ation measures that

24 we've developed have been based on thes e scenarios that

25 we've driven. And the temperature is t he one that we123

1 focus the most on.

2 The next slide.

3 --o0o--

4 DEPUTY SECRETARY BRUNELLO: Th is is also just to

5 show one that has been very close to th e administration's

6 minds and all of our minds as a lot of these projections

7 as we've projected on to actual impact shows that over the

8 next 50 years we could have about 40 pe rcent less snow

9 pack and over the next century about al most 20 percent

10 remaining, losing 80 percent of our sno w pack. Obviously,

11 as we look at a major restructuring of our water supply

12 system, the Governor has been very invo lved in that as the

13 Legislature and many of you I'm sure as well your

14 counties.

15 But this is something that was very much a driver

16 in looking at how we need to restructur e our water supply

17 system. So as we look at these impacts , there's been a

18 lot of work on adaptation measures over the last decade.

19 But really what happened in looking at the water supply

20 system was that we realized there were three or four

21 different scenarios that were moving an d looking at the

22 topic of sea level rise. And really th at's a global

23 number. So we realized that we had to try to coordinate

24 among state agencies to ensure they wer e using similar

25 numbers, because some were using much h igher numbers than124

1 others. So we wanted to try to make su re if we were going

2 to have a policy on adapting, that we'r e using the same

3 numbers. And so we did an Executive Or der with the

4 Governor in 2008 that directed the Reso urces Agency in

5 cooperation with multiple government ag encies to look at

6 the science that we had right now.

7 Next, which I think is most im portant, is to

8 identify a portfolio of options on how to reduce the risk

9 from these climate change impacts.

10 And then finally, which is why this report has

11 caught much more attention, which I thi nk most of the

12 states across the U.S. need to do much more of is to

13 actually move this to action so there a re actual things

14 that we can guide State agencies to do.

15 And so what we worked on over the last year and a

16 half is we had seven different working groups -- and I

17 forgot all of them as I try to state th em -- but basically

18 was forestry, agriculture, water, publi c health --

19 transportation, energy, and biodiversit y, and habitat.

20 And I'm probably missing one.

21 Each of these were led by diff erent State

22 agencies. The Air Resources Board was fundamental in

23 helping Department of Public Health in developing their

24 air quality recommendations. So what w e did is we asked

25 each of the different working groups in working with the125

1 Climate Action Team and Cal/EPA to go t hrough that effort

2 that we highlighted the science and fig ure out what were

3 the options available and then to ident ify what specific

4 strategies they would do. So what we c ame up with was a

5 report that we released -- next slide.

6 --o0o--

7 DEPUTY SECRETARY BRUNELLO: Go vernor

8 Schwarzenegger was able to release the report, and we

9 released the final report after we had significant public

10 comment. We had over 80 different inpu ts to the final

11 report, the draft that we had out. We also had multiple

12 public meetings within the working grou ps and for the

13 overall report that we released.

14 But December 2nd, we did relea se our final report

15 in San Francisco. We also had the 23 m embers of the newly

16 announced Climate Adaptation Advisory B oard, which Board

17 Member Dan Sperling sits on. We had Er ic Schmidt, who's

18 the person in the orange tie, from Goog le. I'll get to

19 the point why it was very important to have both of those

20 figures there for this announcement.

21 I'm not sure if anything was p rovided to you, but

22 it's like the Scoping Plan. It's a dif ficult read. And

23 we have multiple strategies within that . And overall I

24 think there were probably about 60 or 7 0 that came out of

25 all the different working groups.126

1 And then what we did though is we highlighted 12

2 in our executive summary, which I brief ly want to go

3 through. I think you can read the repo rt, but it will

4 give you a flavor for the types of reco mmendations we

5 pulled out and I wanted to relate speci fically to the Air

6 Resources Board.

7 --o0o--

8 DEPUTY SECRETARY BRUNELLO: So the first, which I

9 think is fundamental, is to get more pe ople to be talking

10 about this just beyond state government . We did focus on

11 state government. What was established was a Climate

12 Adaptation Advisory Board from represen tatives from NGOs,

13 private business, government, and a ver y wide group that

14 even includes former Governor Pete Wils on and a number of

15 other luminaries. What we're asking th at group is to

16 really build upon our strategies and co me up with a report

17 this summer that will step outside the box and see what

18 else needs to be done.

19 Another fundamental issue, whi ch is really

20 important in all the work that all of y ou do, is land use.

21 That was the biggest thing coming out o f this is we need

22 to think differently about how we plan and how we develop.

23 So one of the issues that came up withi n CEQA that a lot

24 of the recommendations and comment lett ers that we had

25 really wanted us to re-write our CEQA l aws to move around127

1 climate adaptation. We thought it was still a little

2 early to have anything too in-depth, bu t what we did

3 identify was within CEQA you're already required to look

4 at impacts from the natural environment project. It's

5 typically thought of in terms of earthq uakes. But our

6 lawyers also determined it's also direc tly relevant for

7 floods from sea level rise and other im pacts. That's

8 something that came out new.

9 On the six recommendations her e, another key one

10 is really important for a lot of the pu blic health work

11 that you do, that one of the things tha t we're going to be

12 developing is working with our Californ ia Emergency

13 Management Agency to try and look much more in depth at

14 the local hazard mitigation plans, a lo t of the plans the

15 counties are already required to develo p, so we can help

16 them identify where some of the climate impacts are in

17 their communities and try to help devel op different tools

18 to do that.

19 In particular, there's been a lot of concern

20 about the most vulnerable communities. Hunters Point is

21 the one always brought up, again sea le vel rise is the one

22 most people have latched onto. But tha t area is one of

23 the first that could go under, and ther e's been

24 predictions of numerous people that cou ld lose their homes

25 in low-income communities.128

1 Next slide.

2 --o0o--

3 DEPUTY SECRETARY BRUNELLO: On this slide, I

4 wanted to highlight again we're looking at the Department

5 of Public Health and the Air Resources Board for as

6 temperatures increase -- as Board Membe r Balmes, I know

7 we've sat on working groups and can spe ak to this much

8 better than I -- but that as temperatur es increase in

9 communities that we really see the dise ases and things

10 that will already be there will be that much worse. So we

11 really need to work with those communit ies that we're

12 already identifying as areas that will be in areas where

13 the temperatures will go up much faster than other areas.

14 And the last one I just wanted to hit on was the

15 aspect on research. I think the work t hat the Air

16 Resources Board has done on looking at climate impacts and

17 looking at the research, specifically f ocusing on public

18 health, is something that we really wan ted to try to

19 incorporate and link with as much as po ssible. I'm

20 sitting next to Bart Croes there, and t hey've done an

21 excellent job of coordinating with the Energy Commission

22 and across State government to really m ake the research

23 not only improve some of these adaptati on strategies, but

24 also in working to get it out to the pu blic so they can

25 actually change some of the planning th ey're doing right129

1 now.

2 Another key aspect is less abo ut doing more

3 research, more about getting informatio n out to people on

4 what these impacts are and letting them make their own

5 decisions on looking at the science and incorporating that

6 in their own planning processes. So th at was a reason

7 why -- next slide.

8 --o0o--

9 DEPUTY SECRETARY BRUNELLO: Th is is a horrible

10 graph, but this is on our website, the

11 climatechange.ca.gov website. This li nked with having

12 Eric Schmidt at our announcement with G overnor

13 Schwarzenegger. What this was to relea se a beta

14 version of what we call Cal Adapt. And this is a tool

15 that we really hope that we can partner with ARB to

16 utilize much more that uses the Google Earth platform.

17 And what we've done is we've actually p ut the climate

18 science that we have established -- and again this is a

19 beta version that we'll be building and finalizing by the

20 end of the year.

21 But what's important, as I men tioned before, the

22 aspect when you try to look at the clim ate impact and

23 climate science information, previously you would see four

24 boxes and you would try to understand h ow that might

25 impact your region.130

1 What we've done is once we had the climate

2 projections for the studies that I had mentioned, what we

3 then did is worked with Google to then put it into their

4 Google Earth platform so you can see ea ch of the boxes.

5 Right now, you can go and click on and find out more what

6 the impacts are for what we projected t o your region.

7 So somebody living in Tulare C ounty, for example,

8 they're developing their general plan a nd need to know

9 more about information. They hear abou t this crazy topic

10 of climate change adaptation and they k now they have to

11 look at some of the different measures for how to adapt

12 general plans. So what they can do is go specifically

13 onto this and realize quickly I don't h ave to worry about

14 sea level rise, but they may want to wo rry about

15 precipitation and others, and they may have their own

16 science they want to use.

17 But what the goal is with Goog le is to allow

18 anyone to go and link and find out spec ifically the

19 information and the science for their r egion. If you

20 click on these boxes, it goes down to a nother level that

21 reaches a seven-by-seven square kilomet er radius.

22 This is really an area that we need much more

23 work on is the outreach side; making su re that people and

24 individuals get their own information t o make their own

25 decisions. Because I know there is a l ot of discussion131

1 with what science to use. And instead of having us cram

2 it down people's throats is to give the m the opportunity

3 to use this and see what they can do.

4 Next slide.

5 --o0o--

6 DEPUTY SECRETARY BRUNELLO: So just to end, I

7 just wanted to bring back some of the a reas that I really

8 hope that you in your powerful position s at the ARB can

9 help us with.

10 And one that we're working on very closely with

11 all of our climate action teams is to f igure out what are

12 the links with mitigation. And, for ex ample, the

13 renewable energy standard that you're d eveloping is an

14 excellent example, where right now we i n Resources Agency

15 and many folks across the state are fig uring out where to

16 site large renewable energy projects in many in your

17 districts. And one area that we've kno wn is an issue is

18 mitigation, natural habitat mitigation.

19 Climate change and some of the temperature

20 increases into these regions will signi ficantly impact the

21 range of different species. And that c ould impact and

22 result in some of the large projects th at are trying to be

23 sited right now. So it's something tha t we really have to

24 incorporate at this point in time.

25 Also in the 375, same thing. You can develop the132

1 best community plan looking at how to r educe greenhouse

2 gas emissions. But if it's an area tha t we know might be

3 flooded in the next 20, 30, 40 years, i t's something that

4 should be considered in those plans.

5 Second, I've already mentioned a little bit, but

6 there's so many resources here at the A ir Resources Board

7 and so many invaluable tools that I rea lly hope that there

8 is a way that we can try to link better since you're

9 focusing on adaptation with a lot of th e mitigation

10 measures that you've been doing.

11 And third, the same thing, in looking at outreach

12 programs that you've been developing of how we can more

13 closely connect with all the great work that you've been

14 doing. I know we've been focused on th e Google tool and

15 figuring out how we might use that more , but I do hope we

16 can find more ways to cooperate on that

.

17 Thank you very much for the ti me and I look

18 forward to any questions.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u for coming over

20 and for being such a good partner throu gh the development

21 of this program. It's been a process t hat's taken place

22 over a period of almost a year. And th e product that was

23 finally put forth is really a good one.

24 I've said to the point of bein g boring at CAT

25 team meetings that I believe that mitig ation and133

1 adaptation can't be neatly divided from each other and

2 that we need to focus on things that ar e actually part of

3 both. I mean, obviously there are some areas where we're

4 just looking to the future and planning for what the world

5 is going to be like under the range of likely scenarios

6 and then figuring out how to adapt to i t.

7 But even there, the things we might do as

8 adaptation, if we are actually working on them now, also

9 become part of our mitigation strategie s. And it's how we

10 talk about this and also how we actuall y do it, how we

11 incorporate it is obviously a tricky pa rt.

12 I don't know if there's someth ing new, different,

13 or better that we could be doing instit utionally on this

14 front. But I tend to think that one th ing that might help

15 us as at least a next step in terms of outreach would be

16 to develop some scenarios or some speci fic examples of

17 case studies of where climate thinking would potentially

18 have an impact in how we went about doi ng something in

19 California and a project to identify th ose things and then

20 to kind of look at what the range of op tions would be.

21 I'm sure there are people thin king about these

22 issues, you know, in other places, incl uding the

23 universities. It's not something that' s unique to state

24 government. But as government official s, we do have so

25 many opportunities on a day-to-day basi s to affect how134

1 things are going to be in the future th at it seems like we

2 should be able to come up with some bet ter tools than we

3 have right now.

4 And I think that finding a way to get beyond this

5 mitigation versus adaptation dichotomy would help in that

6 regard, because then it's just, you kno w, dealing with

7 climate. It's just the fact that clima te is out there and

8 it's a problem and an issue that we're dealing with. And

9 it's got to be one more of those strand s we factor into

10 our work. That's been the major thing that keeps coming

11 back to me as I look at the presentatio n as I've had an

12 opportunity to experience before.

13 I'm sure other members of the Board will have

14 thoughts, starting with you, Dr. Sperli ng.

15 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: One th ought -- I'm part

16 of that Adaptation Task Force. One of the ideas that's

17 been discussed to illustrate what you'r e talking about is

18 the use of the SB 375 entities, because they are dealing

19 with land use issues in the different m etropolitan areas,

20 and it would be a very logical extensio n to also be

21 talking about incorporating adaptation issues, whether

22 it's where you put the airports or deal with the airports

23 and roads and so on. So we don't want to -- SB 375 is

24 enough of a challenge already. So I'm not proposing

25 anything specific here. I don't know w hat the Task Force135

1 will say. But it's just an illustratio n of what you're

2 saying, Mary, that this is a way and a process to bring it

3 together.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Good ide a.

5 Any other thoughts at the mome nt?

6 If not, this actually segues v ery nicely into our

7 next presentation. But before we get t here, I think it

8 would be good to hear from the one pers on who did sign up

9 for comment on this report. I'm lookin g for Matt. There

10 you go. Matt Vander Sluis from the Pla nning and

11 Conservation League.

12 MR. VANDER SLUIS: Thanks so m uch for this

13 opportunity.

14 I just wanted to thank Tony fo r doing such a

15 great job on this report and for the Ai r Resources Board

16 for being engaged in this issue. It's a critical one that

17 affects a lot of the work that you all do, that we all do.

18 Some of the ways specifically that come s to mind as we

19 think about health impact assessment to ol, as the Air

20 Resources Board works on developing tha t, adaptation will

21 be a critical component.

22 Again, as it was mentioned ear lier, SB 375, are

23 we going to make sure that this round o f regional

24 transportation plans do include climate impact

25 information? And I'm worried that we w on't in this136

1 particular round. So this is an area w here the Board and

2 the staff can be particularly engaged t o make sure we do

3 get some great case studies around the state as we make

4 those transportation and land use decis ions.

5 And then thinking about the is sue that you

6 wrestle with in terms of air quality fr om wildfires, so in

7 2003, San Bernardino County, San Diego County, $2 billion

8 from the wildfires from those particula r years. As we

9 look at wildfires increasing dramatical ly, it's an air

10 quality issue that the State has to gra pple with. I

11 encourage you to work on the integratio n of the two

12 issues.

13 And then particularly to make sure there is an

14 investment in dealing with adaptation i ssues. I think the

15 key area where we have that opportunity is to make sure

16 that as we put a price on greenhouse ga s emissions,

17 allocate some portion of those revenues to wrestling with

18 these tough adaptation issues, particul arly as they affect

19 natural resources and public health.

20 Thank you so much.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u for that comment.

22 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Chairman Nichols,

23 I'd take a moment to thank Tony, not ju st for his work on

24 this but also for the work he's been do ing on forestry

25 issues, land use, and the renewable por tfolio standards.137

1 He's ever present and sometimes we thin k he should just

2 get an office over here.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Some of us have thought for

4 a while we should just annex him, but w e haven't figured

5 out how to do that. Part of the territ orial expansion of

6 ARB.

7 We have one other public comme nter that we just

8 got the card, and that's Alex Jackson.

9 MR. JACKSON: Good afternoon. Thank you for

10 accommodating my late request. I just had a few brief

11 points.

12 Chairman Nichols, I just wante d to echo the point

13 that you were making that really mitiga tion strategies

14 almost are their own adaptation approac h. And I think the

15 more we can be investing now in greenho use gas emissions

16 reductions, obviously the less we're go ing to have to deal

17 with adaptation.

18 Along those lines, I'd just ha ve to recommend the

19 Board later in the day when you talk ab out the cap and

20 trade design and the use of allowance v alue and I think

21 there's certainly some places that allo wance value can be

22 used to get at some of those investment s, some of that

23 preparedness that we can use to really lessen the later

24 more costly adaptation approaches we're going to have to

25 deal with.138

1 That's it. Thank you.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u very much.

3 Are there any other members of the audience who

4 wanted to speak on this?

5 All right. We will move along

.

6 Thank you very much for coming over and doing

7 this with us.

8 We will now hear from the Clim ate Champions

9 Program and get an update on the Board' s activities in

10 that arena. And coming to the floor ar e some of the

11 Climate Champions, who I recognize from previous events,

12 as well as one of their handlers or gro upies -- or I'm not

13 quite sure what to call them -- the peo ple who are working

14 with the Climate Champions Program from ARB.

15 Mr. Goldstene, do you have an introduction to

16 this item?

17 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: I do. Thank you,

18 Chairman Nichols.

19 The Climate Champions Program is part of ARB's

20 growing portfolio of voluntary programs to reduce

21 greenhouse gas emissions, which of cour se are a critical

22 element of reaching our 2020 goals.

23 The staff presentation will pu t the Champions

24 Program into the context of ARB's large r voluntary

25 efforts, provide an update on the accom plishments and139

1 status of the program, and lay out the staff's vision for

2 the future of the program, including pl ans for building a

3 national program based on the Californi a model.

4 Annalisa Schilla from our Rese arch Division will

5 make the staff presentation.

6 (Thereupon an overhead present ation was

7 presented as follows.)

8 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: Thank you, Mr.

9 Goldstene.

10 Voluntary programs that engage Californians in

11 greenhouse gas reduction through person al action are

12 critical to reaching and exceeding the 2020 target defined

13 in AB 32.

14 The California Climate Champio ns Program is one

15 key component in this voluntary actions portfolio. This

16 program engages young people as leaders and educators who

17 demonstrate practical solutions for gre enhouse gas

18 reduction and who help lay the foundati on for the very

19 significant greenhouse gas reductions n ecessary for

20 climate stabilization.

21 I will bring the Board up to s peed on the

22 program's accomplishments to date and s taff's vision for

23 future direction of the program. Staff hope that the

24 Board will increasingly recognize and u tilize the Climate

25 Champions as a resource as we seek to r aise Californian's140

1 awareness of climate change and to enga ge citizens in

2 climate change solutions.

3 --o0o--

4 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: The AB 32

5 Scoping Plan points out that setting Ca lifornia on track

6 to a low-carbon future beyond 2020 will be a

7 multi-generational challenge and Califo rnia will not reach

8 its greenhouse gas reduction goals with out engaging our

9 citizenry in this critical effort.

10 The Scoping Plan recognizes th at meeting our

11 greenhouse gas reduction goals requires a creative mix of

12 measures including: Regulations, marke t mechanisms, and

13 voluntary actions.

14 Within the broad realm of volu ntary actions, ARB

15 staff are developing programs and resou rces to promote

16 greenhouse gas reduction in local gover nments, small

17 businesses, households, schools, and al so programs

18 specifically targeting young people at school and beyond.

19 --o0o--

20 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: Just how much

21 greenhouse gas reduction can we expect to get from

22 voluntary programs? Much more research is needed, but

23 conservative estimates suggest that ene rgy efficiency

24 alone could reduce projected energy dem and in 2020 by 20

25 percent and reduce greenhouse gas emiss ions by more than141

1 26 million metric tons of carbon dioxid e equivalent.

2 Of course, tapping into the gr eenhouse gas

3 reduction potential of energy efficienc y requires more

4 than technology and regulation. It req uires the active

5 engagement of Californians in the visio n of a low-carbon

6 future.

7 --o0o--

8 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: Young people

9 are critical to our low-carbon future. Youth have been a

10 catalyst for change in several areas, i ncluding political

11 campaigns and social movements, such as environmental

12 protection and continues to be influent ial activists,

13 voters, and spokespeople.

14 We also have a lot of other go od reasons to

15 engage young leaders in our efforts to reduce our

16 collective carbon footprint now and in the future. For

17 instance, research shows that young peo ple who make small

18 choices now to reduce energy consumptio n are more likely

19 to make more significant low-carbon cho ices later.

20 Young people spread informatio n quickly

21 throughout large social networks. The average American

22 teenager spends seven hours a day onlin e or texting versus

23 seven hours in class.

24 Youth are important influencer s over the

25 climate-related behaviors of their fami lies and peers.142

1 And young people's energy and climate c hange behaviors and

2 attitudes can be strongly influenced by teachers and

3 school programs, reinforcing the need f or programs like

4 the California Climate Champions to dem onstrate practical

5 climate change solutions in schools.

6 --o0o--

7 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: California has

8 a number of efforts underway to engage young people in our

9 vision for a low-carbon future. And th e Climate Champions

10 program is just one effort that seeks t o cultivate young

11 leaders. This compliments other progra ms, such as

12 Cal/EPA's Education and the Environment Initiative, which

13 will provide K through 12 environmental curricula,

14 including some climate change units. T he

15 coolcalifornia.org schools toolkit prov ides resources to

16 help school administrators, teachers, a nd students to save

17 electricity and reduce their school's c arbon footprint.

18 And, of course, the State is actively e ngaged in efforts

19 to promote green jobs education and tra ining.

20 --o0o--

21 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: Before I go

22 into more detail about the California C limate Champions

23 Program, I would like to provide a litt le bit of history

24 of the program and explain our partners hip with the

25 British Council.143

1 In the 2006, the U.K.'s Enviro nmental Agency,

2 Defra at the time, launched a program c alled Climate

3 Change Champions aiming to engage young people as Climate

4 Change Ambassadors. Governor Schwarzen egger met some of

5 these young champions on a trip to the U.K. in the summer

6 of 2007, and the Governor agreed that C alifornia should

7 have the same kind of program.

8 The U.K. program was so succes sful that the

9 British Council, the U.K.'s cultural re lations

10 organization, took over for Defra at th e end of 2007 and

11 started spreading the Champions Program internationally,

12 at which point the British Council appr oached ARB to

13 become a partner. And California becam e the only

14 non-country to have a Champions Program

.

15 Partnership with the British C ouncil has provided

16 the California Champions access to a gl obal network of

17 over 2,000 young people in more than 60 countries all

18 working on climate projects. The Calif ornia Champions

19 developed a strong appreciation for the international

20 nature of the climate issue and have un paralleled

21 opportunities because of this partnersh ip, including

22 participating in important internationa l climate policy

23 events, such as the COP15 in Copenhagen

.

24 --o0o--

25 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: The Champions144

1 projects and activities are all part of our program goal

2 to promote voluntary action to stabiliz e the climate by

3 inspiring students, engaging classrooms and schools, and

4 helping young people make the connectio ns among personal

5 action, curriculum, and the school itse lf.

6 This program goal strives towa rds our larger

7 mission of fostering voluntary behavior change to reduce

8 greenhouse gas emissions in California and aims to build

9 the capacity of young people to tackle complex

10 interdisciplinary problems and to incor porate an acute

11 environmental awareness into whatever c areer path they

12 follow.

13 We have seen our 25 California Champions make

14 great strides in their projects. And m oving forward, we

15 plan to expand the program to work more closely with other

16 ongoing state efforts, such as the Educ ation and the

17 Environment Initiative, also known as E EI, and to engage

18 more students and teachers by creating a competition that

19 provides an incentive for teachers to l ink champions

20 climate curriculum with classroom-based projects.

21 We will continue selecting ind ividual champions

22 to serve as Climate Change ambassadors and to engage with

23 the international network of champions through the British

24 Council.

25 --o0o--145

1 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: To fulfill our

2 program goal of linking personal action to curriculum in

3 the school, we have laid out these prog ram objectives. We

4 aim to develop the leaders of the clima te generation by

5 training champions from project managem ent, climate change

6 policy, and media interaction to provid e an opportunity

7 for youth to be heard on climate issues

.

8 We also strive to instill in y outh the need for

9 climate change initiatives by educating them on the

10 science, policy, and solutions to clima te change by

11 promoting climate change education in s chools through

12 project-based learning that will compli ment EEI's ongoing

13 efforts.

14 And, finally, we intend this p rogram to support

15 local, national, and international clim ate change

16 initiatives and policies as we continue to provide

17 opportunities for youth leaders to atte nd high level

18 events where they can provide a youth p erspective in

19 keeping with our tradition of sending s tudents to

20 Governor's Global Climate Summits, COP1 5, as well as air

21 districts, state agencies, and other ev ents.

22 --o0o--

23 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: In order to

24 enable the Champions to be as successfu l as possible and

25 to fulfill our program objectives, prog ram activities are146

1 designed to support and train these you ng people.

2 Champion projects are a central and req uired component of

3 the program. And I will briefly share some of their work

4 with you in a moment.

5 Champions are selected as high school students,

6 but some begin college during their yea r-and-a-half in the

7 program, so many start projects when th ey start college or

8 bring their high school projects with t hem.

9 Champions receive training at an orientation day

10 and at climate camp where they learn ab out climate change

11 policy, visit climate science laborator ies, and receive

12 training on communication, media intera ction, and project

13 management.

14 The champions give climate cha nge presentations

15 and media interviews over the course of their

16 year-and-a-half in office, and several report that

17 introducing themselves as California Cl imate Champions

18 lends legitimacy to their climate chang e work.

19 Champions have spoken at the G overnor's Global

20 Climate Summits and at air district and other State agency

21 events and have been featured in a numb er of newspapers,

22 such as the Contra Costa Times and the San Diego Union

23 Tribune, as well as blogs such as KQUE' s Climate Watch and

24 TreeHugger. Champions also have their own blog at

25 climatechamps.org and have a Twitter ac count and Facebook147

1 page.

2 In collaboration with the Brit ish Council,

3 Champions have exciting international o pportunities, such

4 as the COP15 where two California Champ ions were among 200

5 British Council youth delegates, and pa rticipate in a

6 variety of other high-profile policy an d youth events as

7 well as other international climate cam ps and workshops.

8 Champions are also encouraged to form i nternational

9 project collaborations with champions i n other counties.

10 --o0o--

11 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: Champion

12 projects span a wide range of topics fr om scientific

13 research into new energy technologies a nd fuels, designing

14 hip clothing or writing plays to raise climate change

15 awareness, regular columns or segment i n local news media,

16 promoting water conservation in arid pa rts of California,

17 connecting school environmental clubs s o we can have a

18 bigger impact, and a whole host of proj ects designed to

19 raise awareness of climate change in sc hools, including

20 after-school programs, green events, de monstration

21 projects, campaigns, and classroom educ ation.

22 Two of our Champions, Soraya O kuda and Adam

23 Raudonis, are here today to share their projects and

24 program experience with you. I will yi eld the floor to

25 them now and wrap up my presentation af ter their148

1 presentations have concluded. Soraya?

2 --o0o--

3 MS. OKUDA: Thank you, Annalis a. And thank you

4 Board members.

5 Hello. My name is Soraya Okud a, and I'm from

6 San Francisco.

7 At first, I geared my project toward composting

8 in a local mall with the hope that peop le's consuming and

9 waste habits would change over time. A s my vision for the

10 project had started implementation, my project as a

11 Climate Champion took a different cours e. And it has

12 evolved into an education and gardening project with kids.

13 --o0o--

14 MS. OKUDA: After volunteering and tutoring

15 children on my own time, I have realize d that I can have a

16 much greater impact on people's behavio r by focusing my

17 efforts on teaching children about cons ervation concepts.

18 Much like the Climate Champions Program puts emphasis on

19 teaching youth and actively encouraging us, I hope my

20 project will instill the same concept o f nurturing young

21 kids as well as inspire them to conserv e and take an

22 active role.

23 Over the next few months, I ho pe to collaborate

24 with a local school by creating lesson plans and educating

25 children in various basic environmental and gardening149

1 aspects.

2 Last Saturday, I volunteered a t San Francisco's

3 Garden for the Environment to get a bet ter understanding

4 of basic gardening as well as ideas for lesson plan.

5 --o0o--

6 MS. OKUDA: With the help of t he Climate

7 Champions Program, I have begun to thin k more about

8 conservation practices even when travel ing. I recently

9 went on vacation with my family to Buen os Aires,

10 Argentina. And although I was sightsee ing, I couldn't

11 help but think about the various practi ces I observed.

12 For example, the process of ta king out trash was

13 vastly different from those I've seen i n San Francisco.

14 As seen in this slide above, rather tha n having a trash

15 collecting company dump bins into their truck, the trash

16 bags of residents were placed out on th e streets every

17 night. And every night I saw people pu shing carts,

18 rummaging, and sorting through the tras h to find

19 recyclables to exchange for money. Whi le the disparity in

20 wealth was sad for me to see, I learned later on that the

21 city of Buenos Aires had been hiring th e knowledgeable

22 cart pushers as part of the recycling a nd waste management

23 initiative.

24 With this in mind, I felt hope ful seeing

25 governments working with the local peop le in adapting150

1 eco-conscious practices and providing p roper compensation

2 for their efforts.

3 While I had a main understandi ng of climate

4 change prior to joining this program, t here wasn't much

5 that I felt I could do. But after bein g given the

6 opportunities to visit the U.C. San Die go labs, met with

7 numerous experts in various fields, as well as the work

8 they do every day, and get to know peop le my age who are

9 working on climate change projects worl dwide, the process

10 for slowing climate change has become m uch more tangible

11 to me.

12 The Climate Champions Program has not only

13 provided the resources for youth like m yself to start our

14 projects, but has inspired us to create them, which as

15 students otherwise might have seemed to o daunting to

16 pursue.

17 I feel incredibly fortunate an d thankful to be a

18 part of this Climate Champion Program, not only for the

19 great support it has provided me, but t o be among a group

20 of bright students who are striving to make a difference

21 and are a model for others.

22 Thank you.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

24 MR. RAUDONIS: Thank you, Boar d members.

25 Hi. My name is Adam Raudonis. I'm a senior at151

1 West Lake High School, and I was select ed in 2008 as a

2 California Climate Champion. What I th ought would just be

3 another opportunity for environmental c ommunity service

4 ended up defining my high school experi ence. It has given

5 me the tools to reach my full potential as a student and

6 achieve what were only dreams just a fe w years back.

7 My Climate Champions project, Students for Solar

8 Schools, started with the simple ambiti on to put solar

9 panels on my high school, yet it has no w grown into an

10 international effort that unites studen ts under a common,

11 specific, and achievable goal.

12 For my high school, I have rai sed $5,900 in cash

13 and obtained an estimated 45,00 in labo r and material

14 donations. If the local inspector perm its the site, then

15 we will install a 6.3 kilowatt DC photo voltaic solar array

16 this semester, which will be the world' s largest

17 student-led and funded solar installati on on a school.

18 Yet, one project will not impa ct climate change,

19 but a movement might. What makes Stude nts for Solar

20 Schools unique is its online network of currently over 15

21 schools that are now sharing knowledge, resources, and

22 making the task of installing solar on schools a whole

23 light easier.

24 Through the website I created,

25 studentsforsolarschools.org, I'm able t o share success152

1 stories, such as fellow California Clim ate Champion Jason

2 Bade who, behind the scenes, since nint h grade lobbied his

3 district to eventually invest $33 milli on in a solar and

4 roof upgrade, or Pam Chang, the Oak Par k Students for

5 Solar Schools leader, who is now close to installing a 2.8

6 kilowatt array on her local elementary school's

7 greenhouse. And the whole time, the Ca lifornia Climate

8 Champions Program has been there to sup port the project by

9 regularly checking in, connecting me wi th key people, and

10 most importantly, allowing me to expand my audience.

11 I have had the opportunity to address the

12 Governor's Global Climate Summit both y ears, attend the

13 Copenhagen Climate Conference, and spea k with some of the

14 writers of AB 32. Being so close to th e individuals who

15 are actually making the key decisions w hen it comes to

16 climate change makes me recognize that I can assume that

17 role one day, too, which makes me concl ude that what's

18 most important is not the watts of sola r installed today,

19 but the leaders of tomorrow that are ma de.

20 The impact of the Climate Cham pions Program is

21 exponential in that it grooms bold lead ers who are

22 networked, impassioned, and capable to meet the greatest

23 environmental challenges any generation has ever faced. I

24 do not know of a more solid investment than the very

25 mechanism that inspires and enables fut ure leaders to153

1 tackle climate change. All I can hope is that every

2 student gets the same opportunity I'm g rateful that the

3 California Climate Champions Program ha s given me.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u very much.

5 (Applause)

6 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: Moving forward

7 with the program, staff will continue t o foster Champion

8 projects that focus on energy, transpor tation, waste, and

9 education and will strive to encourage youth, teachers,

10 and school administrators to replicate Champion's projects

11 in other schools and promote new projec ts that support

12 Scoping Plan measures and network proje cts internationally

13 with other British council Climate Cham pions projects.

14 In order to continue to multip ly the impact of

15 this program, we are working with the B ritish Council to

16 engage key partners in California, incl uding other state

17 agencies, air districts, and various NG Os to create the

18 most effective curriculum and project-b ased program to

19 launch in schools this coming fall, whi ch will compliment

20 the EEI initiative curriculum with proj ects and additional

21 incentives for classrooms to engage in climate change

22 learning.

23 We aim to increase the program 's impact and

24 participation significantly in the comi ng years. We are

25 also working to create a program model that could be154

1 easily replicated at the national level or in other

2 states.

3 --o0o--

4 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: The California

5 Climate Champions Programs brings a new dimension to

6 California's consistent leadership on t he issue of climate

7 change and innovation to reduce greenho use gas emissions.

8 The current and future Champions are wo rking to fulfill

9 ARB's goal of engaging all Californians in our collective

10 effort to reduce greenhouse gas emissio ns and protect our

11 climate.

12 We agree with Mary Nichols, wh o has pointed out

13 that, "We can't regulate our way out of climate change,"

14 underscoring the critical importance of a multifaceted

15 approach to greenhouse gas reduction. In this complex

16 effort, the reach of young people is cr itical to the

17 fulfillment of ARB's mission. And it's critical that we

18 be successful in fostering this emergin g generation of

19 climate conscious citizens. The more s uccessful the

20 Champions are, the better the prospects for all of our

21 future.

22 We look forward to continuing and growing this

23 program as part of the state's larger e fforts to engage

24 the emerging climate generation. We ho pe the Board will

25 increasingly recognize and draw on the Climate Champions155

1 as a resource and engaging Californians in climate change

2 solutions and look forward to many futu re opportunities

3 for young people to contribute to the c limate change

4 dialogue. Thank you.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u very much for

6 that presentation.

7 You did mention some of the ot her voluntary

8 programs that are underway at the momen t, but I think it's

9 worth noting that this is in many ways a great program to

10 talk about, because the Climate Champio ns themselves are

11 very engaging. And generally speaking, people are

12 enthusiastic about young people leading the way on big

13 problems. And we're very grateful to t hem for having been

14 willing to engage with us in this progr am as well. It

15 certainly is mutually beneficial. But you might just talk

16 about some of the other voluntary progr ams. I think you

17 slid over that perhaps a little quickly

.

18 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: In terms of

19 the other Champion projects?

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, no . Really about the

21 other programs that your group is worki ng with.

22 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: So we have our

23 coolcalifornia.org web portal hosts too lkits for local

24 governments, small businesses, househol ds, schools, and

25 young people. Includes tools and resou rces for all of156

1 those different groups to reduce their greenhouse gas

2 emissions voluntarily. So those are de finitely several

3 that we're involved in.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. G o ahead.

5 RESEARCH DIVISION MANAGER MORA : So did you want

6 to know about the case studies that we' re trying -- the

7 same with the Champions Programs is we' re trying to show

8 schools, local governments, and small b usinesses that

9 greenhouse gas reductions are achievabl e on a voluntary

10 basis. So we have a whole effort on co olcalifornia.org

11 that show how to lead by the example an d the others are

12 doing their part for the climate.

13 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think it's just helpful

14 to see that this is just one of a varie ty of different

15 approaches we're taking. And obviously it's very small,

16 because you can only work with a relati vely small number

17 of students at one time. But it's a go od showcase for

18 some of the other work as well. Thank you.

19 Questions? Comments?

20 Yes, Mayor Loveridge.

21 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: It re ally follows from

22 your question of scale. What Soraya an d Adam presented

23 were really powerful and the multiplica tion of that I

24 think is important. But how many Clima te Champions do we

25 have?157

1 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: We currently

2 have 25 Champions. We treat them as Ch ampions for life.

3 So as we continue to select more, many of them remain

4 engaged with the program beyond their m inimum commitment.

5 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Each year --

6 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: We selected 15

7 in 2008 and 10 in 2009. And we have no t selected any for

8 2010.

9 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: These are high school

10 students?

11 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: Correct. We

12 selected 15 to 19-year-old students.

13 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: If I wanted to be a

14 Climate Champion, assuming I was in hig h school, how would

15 I do it?

16 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: Our

17 application basically is a simple propo sal of what you

18 would work on as a Climate Champion to reduce emissions

19 and raise awareness of climate change a nd also requires

20 some demonstration of basic understandi ng of climate

21 change and the importance of tackling t his problem. We

22 select the best applicants that we get electronically and

23 we interview them in person.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: And the British Council as

25 a partner has done I think most of the legwork in terms of158

1 outreach to get people to apply. And t hey, I know, have

2 put up some funding for travel for the students and so on.

3 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: All the

4 international travel is through the par tnership with the

5 British Council.

6 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Seems the number and

7 attention should be increased.

8 But could I ask Soraya and Ada m, how did you

9 happen to hear about the program and ap ply?

10 MS. OKUDA: I heard about the program through my

11 high school environmental science teach er. She made a

12 brief announcement in class, and I thou ght it seemed like

13 an exciting opportunity, so I went for it.

14 MR. RAUDONIS: I heard about i t from a friend

15 through a friend, who heard it from a t eacher.

16 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: You k now the science

17 project which really, I mean, sort of m obilize many

18 people. And it seems to me it would be helpful. This was

19 not simply a small number of Champions, but somehow we can

20 figure out how we can multiply the numb er.

21 AIR POLLUTION SPECIALIST SCHIL LA: That's one of

22 our program goals moving forward is to really develop a

23 component of the program that incentivi zes classrooms to

24 take on projects as a group so that mor e students can be

25 involved and the teachers are participa ting as well just159

1 to really help spread the word and enga ge more students.

2 And our hope is to continue selecting i ndividual Champions

3 who can participate in this internation al network and

4 other opportunities but to really have this program touch

5 and influence a lot more climate change learning through

6 schools.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Any othe r comments?

8 If not, I think you got a roun d of applause,

9 we'll give you another one.

10 (Applause)

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Great wo rk. Thank you.

12 Okay.

13 We are going to hear now from some of the ARB

14 staff who have been valiantly wrestling with the issues

15 related to creating a greenhouse Cap an d Trade Program

16 Board members undoubtedly have been hea ring a lot about

17 this issue from your friends and neighb ors in the press.

18 And I think we all know that the very t erm has become kind

19 of loaded in some ways. And hopefully Kevin Kennedy,

20 who's the head of our Office of Climate Change, will be

21 able to give us some context and update us on the work

22 that's been going on at the staff level . This is kind of

23 a preview of coming attractions in term s of what the Board

24 is going to be dealing with this year.

25 Do you want to introduce this?160

1 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Thank you, Chairman

2 Nichols.

3 The purpose of this item is to brief the Board on

4 the progress in developing a Cap and Tr ade Program

5 consistent with your direction at the t ime you adopted the

6 AB 32 Scoping Plan in December 2008. W e want to keep the

7 Board fully briefed as we continue to m ove this program

8 towards reality.

9 Under AB 32, the Global Warmin g Solutions Act of

10 2006, California must reduce greenhouse gas emissions to

11 1990 levels by 2020. The Scoping Plan calls for a

12 California Cap and Trade Program that l inks with other

13 regional partner jurisdictions in the W estern Climate

14 Initiative to create a regional market system. A Cap and

15 Trade Program is one of the key measure s that California

16 will employ to reduce the state's overa ll greenhouse gas

17 emissions. As adopted in the Scoping P lan, the Cap and

18 Trade Program would establish a cap cov ering about 85

19 percent of the state's greenhouse gas e missions. The

20 program provides incentives for industr y to seek the most

21 cost-effective emissions reductions. T he cap and trade

22 regulation will set up the framework an d requirements for

23 participation in the program.

24 Today's overview is the first in a series of

25 briefings we'll provide the Board over the course of this161

1 year on different aspects of the progra m. At your

2 February meeting, staff will present a brief overview of

3 how offsets would work in a Cap and Tra de Program.

4 Offsets are emission reductions that en tities in a Cap and

5 Trade Program would be able to use to h elp meet the

6 regulatory compliance obligations. At the March Board

7 meeting, staff will present its report on the economic

8 analysis update for the Scoping Plan, a nd the March

9 meeting will also include a presentatio n by members of the

10 Economic and Allocation Advisory Commit tee who will report

11 their recommendations for allocating al lowances and

12 distributing allowance value from a Cap and Trade Program.

13 They will also comment on the revised S coping Plan

14 economic analysis. We hope these prese ntations are

15 helpful for your consideration as we mo ve towards October

16 and the regulations comes before you.

17 Ms. Lucille Van Ommering, the Manager of the

18 Program Development Section and our Off ice of Climate

19 Change, will now present today's item. Lucille.

20 (Thereupon an overhead present ation was

21 presented as follows.)

22 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

23 Thank you, Mr. Goldstene. Good morning , Chairman Nichols

24 and Board members.

25 Six months ago, staff briefed you on the Scoping162

1 Plan's greenhouse gas cap and trade mea sure. Since then,

2 we have made significant progress on de veloping a

3 broad-based program that addresses the state's

4 contribution to climate change.

5 This is the first in a series of updates to you

6 on the cap and trade proposal that will culminate in a

7 proposed regulation we'll ask you to co nsider in October.

8 Today, I'll be updating you on staff's

9 preliminary draft regulatory proposal, which includes

10 staff's current thinking on the design elements of the

11 regulation. I will also describe how p rogram development

12 is being supported through the advice a nd review of a Blue

13 Ribbon Committee of outside experts, th e Economic and

14 Allocation Advisory Committee.

15 --o0o--

16 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

17 The Scoping Plan you adopted in Decembe r 2008 called for

18 the creation of a broad-based Cap and T rade Program that

19 provides a fixed limit on GHG emissions in California.

20 Its design is geared to drive innovatio n and use market

21 forces to find least cost solutions to reducing greenhouse

22 gas emissions.

23 The Scoping Plan also calls fo r the California

24 Program to link with those of our partn ers in the Western

25 Climate Initiative. The Western Climat e Initiative, or163

1 WCI, is comprised of seven western stat es and four

2 Canadian provinces.

3 California has been actively e ngaged for the past

4 two years with our WCI partners in esta blishing a regional

5 program. The goal of a regional Cap an d Trade Program is

6 to collectively reduce greenhouse gas e missions. Similar

7 to the California target, the regional program would cover

8 sources that encompass about 90 percent of the region's

9 emissions, and when fully implemented, would nearly double

10 the reductions of a California-only pro gram.

11 Our collaboration with the WCI has contributed to

12 development of our thinking on the Cali fornia cap and

13 trade proposal. In turn, ARB's develop ment of a draft

14 rule is progress for all of WCI as the program moves

15 forward. We expect a subset of WCI par tners to start in

16 2010 as we ourselves are proposing. Ot hers will join as

17 they are ready.

18 The diverse views of the WCI p artners are

19 resulting in a program with broad appea l that we expect

20 others will join. In fact, WCI is also in discussions

21 with representatives of the Midwest Gov ernor's Initiative

22 and the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiat ive in the

23 northeast about possible linkage to cre ate an even broader

24 market.

25 California's Cap and Trade Pro gram will be164

1 designed to complement health-based air quality programs

2 and environmental justice policies. As with all of ARB's

3 regulations, staff will consider the ef fects of the

4 program on the California economy and p ublic health.

5 To assist ARB in developing a Cap and Trade

6 Program, Cal/EPA Secretary Adams and Ch airman Nichols

7 created a 16-member panel of economic, financial, and

8 policy experts to evaluate various cap and trade

9 allocation strategies and to review sta ff's economic

10 analysis update on the AB 32 Scoping Pl an. The Economic

11 and Allocation Advisory Committee, or E AAC, started work

12 in May of last year by carefully consid ering various

13 options for freely distributing or auct ioning allowances,

14 and if auctioned, for distributing auct ion revenues.

15 Their allocation recommendations were r eleased earlier

16 this month. You will hear more about t hose

17 recommendations at your March meeting.

18 Broadly speaking, the Committe e recognized the

19 need to use the allocation system to ad dress possible

20 effects on the competitiveness of Calif ornia's industries.

21 It also recognized the need to help add ress the potential

22 for increased pollution and to protect low-income

23 communities from adverse economic effec ts.

24 The Committee also recommended that the bulk of

25 allowances be auctioned with revenues b eing returned165

1 directly to Californians and invested i n ways that help

2 meet the overall objectives of AB 32. EAAC has been

3 working closely with staff on the econo mic analysis update

4 of the Scoping Plan and plans on holdin g a workshop on

5 ARB's economic analysis in February.

6 In March, EAAC will release an appendix to

7 staff's economic report to the Board fo r further public

8 discussion.

9 --o0o--

10 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

11 This table, which is a simplified versi on of one in the

12 Scoping Plan, shows that the Cap and Tr ade Program works

13 in conjunction with many complementary policies that also

14 achieve reductions from the cap sectors

.

15 The Scoping Plan calls for mea sures to reduce

16 emissions from sectors in the Cap and T rade Program by

17 more than 245 million metric tons, 110 of those would come

18 from complementary measures, and the re maining 35 would

19 come from additional reductions from th e Cap and Trade

20 Program itself.

21 --o0o--

22 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

23 The public has been an integral part of rule development

24 since day one, and we will continue to consult with all

25 affected stakeholders throughout the pr ocess.166

1 In 2009 alone, staff held 21 p ublic meetings and

2 received hundreds of comments on progra m concepts and

3 proposed design elements. ARB carefull y considered both

4 written and verbal comments as we devel oped our initial

5 proposal, in which we sought to strike the right balance

6 between environmental effectiveness and the need to avoid

7 economic disruption as the program is i mplemented.

8 Staff worked with WCI partner jurisdict ions to coordinate

9 our work with regional efforts.

10 Needless to say, the Californi a Legislature has

11 also shown a keen interest in ARB's cli mate change

12 programs. Over the past year, Chairman Nichols and our

13 Executive Officers have participated in seven legislative

14 hearings on AB 32 and the cap and trade proposal.

15 In November 2009, staff releas ed a preliminary

16 draft regulation holding a workshop on the draft in

17 December. This early look at the Cap a nd Trade Program

18 reflects many of the comments received by stakeholders

19 over the past year. It also reflects a n emerging

20 consensus by WCI partners over what key elements of the

21 program should look like.

22 Since our December workshop an d as of today,

23 staff has received 127 comment letters. Additional

24 comments continue to come in. We are a lso continuing to

25 meet with several stakeholder groups on their comments.167

1 The EAAC has also had an activ e schedule over the

2 last year holding nine open business me etings in which the

3 public comment was invited and consider ed.

4 The EAAC's report on allocatio n strategies was

5 released earlier this month. As I ment ioned, they will

6 present their recommendations to you in March.

7 Also, EAAC Committee members a re reviewing

8 staff's economic analysis update for th e Scoping Plan and

9 will hold a workshop on their review ne xt month prior to

10 staff's presentation to the Board in Ma rch.

11 --o0o--

12 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

13 Staff will encourage continued opportun ities for public

14 involvement through the remainder of th e rule development

15 process.

16 Throughout the course of this year, we will

17 continue to solicit public input on a v ariety of proposed

18 rule elements and technical analyses. This will include

19 discussions on how the cap would be set , how to minimize

20 the potential of emissions increases fr om unregulated

21 imports that compete with California co vered sources, the

22 proposed allocation strategies under th e cap, and likely

23 compliance strategies available to cove red sources.

24 We also plan to hold public me etings on the

25 public health analysis and the economic analysis update to168

1 discuss how these evaluations will be u sed in program

2 design.

3 Finally, we expect to hold wor kshops on revisions

4 to ARB's mandatory reporting requiremen ts. These will be

5 needed to harmonize the existing requir ements with the cap

6 and trade regulations.

7 --o0o--

8 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

9 From now until October, staff will also be bringing

10 progress updates to the Board.

11 In February, we will provide a n overview of the

12 creation issuance of and use of offsets in a cap and trade

13 program.

14 In March, the Board will hear from EAAC on their

15 recommendations for allocation distribu tion and the use of

16 auction revenues.

17 Also in March, staff will pres ent an updated

18 economic analysis of the Scoping Plan.

19 In June, staff will brief the Board on setting

20 the emissions cap and proposed allowanc e allocation

21 strategies.

22 Finally, before you consider t he rulemaking

23 package in October, we'll brief you aga in in September on

24 our rulemaking progress and stakeholder comments received

25 to date.169

1 With each general update, staf f will also keep

2 you apprised on ongoing work to establi sh a regional Cap

3 and Trade Program through the Western C limate Initiative.

4 --o0o--

5 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

6 Staff released our preliminary draft re gulation, or PDR,

7 in November 2009. This was nearly a fu ll year before

8 we'll ask you to consider a proposed ru le in October of

9 this year.

10 We did this to maximize the op portunity for

11 public comment and to advance the publi c dialog on the

12 proposed structure and content of a key Scoping Plan

13 measure.

14 The PDR includes preliminary r egulatory language,

15 narrative text, and placeholders. Prop osed regulatory

16 language details the administrative pro cess and regulatory

17 structure of the program. Narrative te xt describes

18 concepts for discussion for regulatory provisions that

19 staff are still considering.

20 Placeholders are also inserted where language is

21 still under development or awaits staff consideration of

22 other work in progress, such as EAAC re commendations and

23 the public health analysis.

24 --o0o--

25 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:170

1 The next several slides provide a gener al overview of the

2 Cap and Trade Program structure as refl ected in the

3 preliminary draft regulation.

4 Cap and trade is a regulatory mechanism that

5 establishes a cap or upper limit on an amount of

6 greenhouse gas emissions allowed to be released into the

7 environment. The cap, which is also ca lled an allowance

8 cap or allowance budget, is the total n umber of California

9 greenhouse gas allowances that ARB woul d issue over a

10 given period of time. The cap would be divided into

11 annual budgets, which specify the numbe r of allowances ARB

12 would allocate each year from 2012 thro ugh 2020 and

13 beyond.

14 A covered source is an entity that would be

15 regulated under the Cap and Trade Progr am, such as a

16 cement plant or a distributor of natura l gas. It is

17 important to note that the cap applies to the total number

18 of allowed greenhouse gas emissions tha t can be emitted in

19 the aggregate by covered sources in any one compliance

20 period. It is not a cap on individual emitting sources.

21 Instead, covered entities would be requ ired to hold

22 sufficient allowances and offsets to co ver their emissions

23 for each compliance period.

24 Annual allowance budgets will be contained in the

25 final proposed rule that is released fo r public review in171

1 late September 2010 and will reflect th e latest 2009

2 emissions reporting data. Our intent i s to establish the

3 cap in 2012 at our best estimate of wha t emissions would

4 be that year, so that relatively few re ductions would be

5 needed in the early years of the progra m. We believe that

6 this type of phase-in is an important e lement of avoiding

7 unacceptable near term economic costs.

8 --o0o--

9 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

10 The staff is proposing to include the f ollowing sectors in

11 the Cap and Trade Program:

12 Large sources that are industr ial sources that

13 emit 25,000 metric tons of CO2 equivale nt per year or

14 greater;

15 Electricity delivered to the C alifornia grid

16 including imported electricity;

17 Natural gas and propane distri butors and

18 providers and transportation fuels prov iders.

19 The November 2009 draft regula tion leaves open

20 whether to bring all sectors into the p rogram in 2012 or

21 stagger these sectors in over two compl iance periods with

22 transportation and other fuel providers phased in in 2015.

23 CO2E or equivalent emissions i nclude the six

24 greenhouse gases identified in the Kyot o Protocol as well

25 as nine nitrogen trifluridine which is identified in172

1 Senate Bill 104, which was sponsored by Senator Oropeza.

2 Nitrogen trifluridine is a greenhouse g as used in the

3 semiconductor industry with a global wa rming potential

4 many thousands of times that of CO2.

5 --o0o--

6 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

7 Allowances are finite tradable permits that ARB would

8 establish at the beginning of the progr am. Each year, ARB

9 would issue an aggregate number of allo wances for a

10 one-time right to emit these gasses. A t defined periods,

11 such as every year or every three years , ARB would require

12 covered entities to turn in allowances equal to their

13 greenhouse gas emissions. And sometime s you'll hear me

14 talk about turn in. Other times, I'll use the term

15 surrender. They're both the same.

16 Covered entities would also be permitted to use a

17 limited number of high quality offset c redits for a small

18 part of this obligation, and we'll desc ribe the concept of

19 offsets shortly.

20 Under a regional Cap and Trade Program, such as

21 the WCI, allowances issued by regional partners would also

22 be tradable among all sources covered u nder the regional

23 link, including covered entities in Cal ifornia.

24 While the WCI is the most like ly opportunity for

25 linking to other jurisdictions, Califor nia is also engaged173

1 in preliminary discussions with northea stern states who

2 have an active regional cap and trade p rogram in place

3 today, that's the Regional Greenhouse G as Initiative, or

4 RGGI, or states in the midwest who are seriously

5 contemplating such a move through a Mid western Regional

6 Greenhouse Gas Reduction Accord.

7 --o0o--

8 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

9 This graph illustrates what the allowan ce cap would look

10 like if we were to phase covered sector s into the program.

11 This is illustrative only. However, as you can see, the

12 cap does not set an emissions limit ove r any specific

13 sources. Rather, it sets an overall ca p on the number of

14 allowances or permits to emit.

15 ARB would decrease the total n umber of allowances

16 each year and, thus, lower the emission s cap. Covered

17 entities could either reduce their emis sions or compete

18 for increasingly scarce allowances.

19 --o0o--

20 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

21 How would allowances be distributed in the California

22 program? ARB could either freely distr ibute allowances to

23 covered entities or auction them.

24 The Scoping Plan calls for a m inimum of 10

25 percent of the total allowances to be a uctioned in the174

1 first year of the program, in 2012, whe n the program

2 starts and a minimum of 25 percent auct ion by 2020.

3 However, one of the EAAC's key recommendations is

4 to primarily rely on auctions for allow ance distribution.

5 The EAAC also recommends that the progr am address leakage

6 possibly by distributing a portion of a llowances for free

7 to some covered entities.

8 In the cap and trade context, emissions leakage

9 is a shift of greenhouse gas emissions from capped sources

10 to higher emitting sources not subject to one

11 jurisdiction's climate policies. This can occur when

12 climate policies in one jurisdiction re sult in companies

13 relocating to other jurisdictions witho ut a climate policy

14 to take advantage of the economic benef its.

15 If public demand for the goods that are produced

16 remains the same, global greenhouse gas emissions could

17 actually increase while hurting the Cal ifornia economy.

18 Staff is considering the recom mendations

19 contained in the EAAC report to minimiz e leakage. We're

20 also evaluating whether the EU's tradin g system and the

21 Australian proposal's way of addressing leakage would be

22 adaptable to a California model.

23 --o0o--

24 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

25 What are offsets?175

1 An offset is a credit that rep resents a

2 reduction, avoidance, or sequestration of carbon dioxide

3 or other GHG emissions that result from an activity not

4 covered by the cap and that can be meas ured, quantified,

5 and verified. This credit can then be sold and used by a

6 covered entity to meet a portion of its compliance

7 obligation under the Cap and Trade Prog ram. Ensuring the

8 environmental integrity of offset credi ts is a major issue

9 associated with including them in cap a nd trade.

10 To ensure to the public and co vered entities that

11 offset credits provide high environment al quality, the

12 broader Cap and Trade Program would est ablish offset rules

13 and quantification methodologies or pro tocols that

14 projects must meet in order to qualify for a credit.

15 These regulatory criteria and protocols must ensure that

16 emissions reductions, avoidance, and gr eenhouse gas

17 sequestration from such projects are re al, additional,

18 quantifiable, permanent, verifiable, an d enforceable.

19 A few examples of activities t hat could

20 potentially generate offsets include pl anting trees on

21 land not previously forested or capturi ng and making use

22 of methane from livestock operations.

23 This Board has approved protoc ols for voluntary

24 offsets from such project types. While Board approved,

25 these voluntary protocols may need to g o through an176

1 additional review before they meet crit eria under the

2 regulatory Cap and Trade Program.

3 Once the criteria are met, the se credits could be

4 used by covered entities to fulfill a p ortion of their

5 compliance obligation in addition to th e use of offsets.

6 --o0o--

7 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

8 What role would offsets play in a Cap a nd Trade Program?

9 Offsets can help to reduce the compliance costs

10 of cap and trade by offering an additio nal supply of

11 compliance instruments that may cost le ss than allowances.

12 In addition to increasing the cost effectiveness

13 of the program, a California offsets pr ogram can benefit

14 Cap and Trade Program goals by stimulat ing emission

15 reduction opportunities and technology innovation in

16 sectors outside of the capped sectors. It can encourage

17 early emission reduction activities, wh ile providing a

18 transition period for industry to devel op and deploy

19 low-carbon technology.

20 It can promote technology and knowledge transfer

21 between developed and developing countr ies, such as

22 helping to preserve rain forests in dan ger of

23 deforestation. And it can provide envi ronmental, social,

24 and economic benefits, such as reduced air or water

25 pollution, through improved land manage ment practices and177

1 wildlife habitat. Staff will brief the Board on offsets

2 in more detail in February.

3 --o0o--

4 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

5 Not only can a covered entity hold and surrender both

6 allowances and offsets for its own comp liance, it can also

7 trade these two instruments to other en tities in the

8 system.

9 Likewise, once linked to other programs, such as

10 in the WCI, allowances and offsets issu ed in the other

11 jurisdictions would also be interchange able.

12 --o0o--

13 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

14 Under staff's current thinking, various entities could

15 participate in the purchase and trading of allowances

16 subject to limits on the amount any ind ividual entity

17 could hold. Clearly, we expect the vas t majority of

18 traders will be covered entities.

19 Offset providers could also su pply credits

20 resulting from projects that ARB has ap proved for use in

21 the California program. We are also pr oposing to allow

22 even private individuals or groups not covered under the

23 cap to purchase allowances that could e ither be traded or

24 retired, provided they register with th e cap and trade

25 tracking system.178

1 In order to provide safeguards against market

2 manipulation, staff is developing rule provisions that

3 will limit the number of allowances tha t any individual or

4 firm can hold, as well as trade data pu blication rules to

5 maximize transparency of these trades t o the public.

6 --o0o--

7 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

8 For trades to occur, staff is proposing that all traders

9 first register in the cap and trade tra cking system.

10 Persons trading on exchanges, such as t he New York

11 Mercantile Exchange, would also be requ ired to register in

12 ARB's system before they could hold all owances for

13 trading. The regulations would also in clude rules to

14 ensure transparency in the markets and help prevent market

15 manipulation.

16 --o0o--

17 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

18 So how would the integrity of the cap b e maintained?

19 Covered entities will be required to re port and verify

20 their emissions annually under ARB's ma ndatory reporting

21 requirements.

22 ARB is also proposing to estab lish a registration

23 and tracking system that would closely monitor trading

24 activities and establish a chain of cus tody for allowances

25 and offset credits that could be used i n the program.179

1 Under the registration and tra cking system, ARB

2 would open accounts for each market par ticipants or other

3 eligible registrants. Those accounts w ould include a

4 holding account that would hold allowan ces and offsets

5 until they are ready to be traded or us ed and a compliance

6 account in which allowances and offsets would be

7 surrendered for compliance or voluntari ly retired without

8 trading it to a covered entity for use.

9 A covered entity's surrounded allowances and

10 offsets would than be compared to its r eported emissions

11 to verify compliance. A quantitative l imit on the use of

12 offset credits would also maintain the integrity of the

13 cap. As discussed in the next slide, t he draft regulation

14 includes a limit on offsets set at four percent of a

15 facility's emissions. This was propose d to ensure that a

16 majority of reduction in the program co me from covered

17 sources.

18 --o0o--

19 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

20 Why limit the use of offsets?

21 Since staff's first public mee ting on a cap and

22 trade proposal, the most contentious is sue for

23 stakeholders was whether or not to limi t the use of

24 offsets. Those who favor no limits arg ue that offsets

25 would reduce the cost of compliance to California180

1 industries with savings passed along to California

2 consumers. These commenters also argue that since climate

3 change is a global problem, offsets wou ld also result in

4 more effective emission reductions, esp ecially in the

5 developing world where widespread reduc tions could be

6 achieved at a much lower cost than in C alifornia.

7 Others argue against the use o f any offsets.

8 These stakeholders believe that offsets would allow

9 covered entities to emit at their facil ities. And,

10 therefore, residents in already impacte d communities would

11 see fewer co-pollutant benefits. Also these stakeholders

12 fear that most offset projects would oc cur outside

13 California and deprive the state from p otential

14 co-benefits. Additionally, these stake holders argue that

15 complimentary measures do not go far en ough in achieving

16 greenhouse gas reductions and that more can be and should

17 be done.

18 Staff considered both position s in the context of

19 the Scoping Plan and concluded that a q uantitative limit

20 on the use of offsets would help to pro vide the balance

21 needed between the need to achieve mean ingful emission

22 reductions from covered entities with t he need to provide

23 entities within capped sectors the oppo rtunity for low

24 cost reduction that offsets can provide

.

25 --o0o--181

1 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

2 ARB is proposing to apply a limit on of fsets that is 49

3 percent of the emissions reductions exp ected from capped

4 sectors from 2012 to 2020. Since each individual facility

5 does not have a specific reduction goal under cap and

6 trade, this quantitative use refers to the total

7 reductions resulting for all uncovered sources between

8 2012 and 2020.

9 In the preliminary draft regul ation, staff

10 translated the limit from 49 percent of the aggregate

11 emission reductions into something that could be applied

12 to each covered entity in the program, an individual

13 limited of four percent of a facility's emission.

14 We have heard that there is so me confusion on

15 this point, so let me be clear about th is: We did not

16 reduce the limit on offsets from 49 per cent to 4 percent.

17 Rather, we translated the policy goal o f no more than 49

18 percent of reductions coming from the o ffsets in the

19 aggregate to a proposal that no more th an 4 percent of a

20 covered entity's emission could be cove red through the use

21 of offsets. We can provide more inform ation on how we

22 calculated the limit on emissions if th e Board is

23 interested at the conclusion of this pr esentation.

24 In the draft regulation, we ha ve proposed to

25 apply this limit on offsets equally acr oss compliance182

1 periods. Because fewer reductions are required in the

2 early years of the program, applying th e limit uniformly

3 over time allows room for limited emiss ions growth in the

4 initial years of the program, providing additional

5 flexibility for companies concerned abo ut how to comply as

6 the program starts in 2012.

7 --o0o--

8 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

9 So what do all these parts mean for som eone who would be

10 covered under the cap?

11 Once in the Cap and Trade Prog ram, a covered

12 entity would need to do the following:

13 Register with ARB to create ac counts that could

14 hold and surrender allowances and offse ts;

15 Report its emissions each year and have its

16 emission verified by a third party;

17 Acquire and surrender sufficie nt allowances and

18 offsets equal to the amount of emission s over the span of

19 the compliance period;

20 Comply with recordkeeping, tra ding rules,

21 verification, and other requirements in the regulation.

22 Even before the system is read y the launch, we

23 will need to have enforcement mechanism s in place to

24 ensure the program's integrity and to p revent market

25 manipulation.183

1 --o0o--

2 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

3 The PDR contains a general description of enforcement

4 provisions that are contained in the Ca lifornia Health and

5 Safety Code which impose penalties. In the next

6 regulatory draft to be released this sp ring, staff will

7 provide more specific enforcement provi sions that would

8 remove any financial incentive for nonc ompliance. We will

9 also include specific provisions that d efine what

10 constitutes a violation.

11 Finally, enforcement provision s will include

12 methods for calculating the number of v iolations.

13 --o0o--

14 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

15 A robust enforcement program will play a vital role by

16 helping to discourage gaming of the sys tem and deter and

17 punish fraudulent activities.

18 ARB staff has been consulting with legal and

19 enforcement staffs from state and feder al agencies to gain

20 insights in this area. These agencies include the

21 California Attorney General's Office, t he California

22 Energy Commission and the PUC, the Depa rtment of Water

23 Resources, Cal/EPA, as well as with aca demics including

24 U.C. Berkeley's Center for Law, Energy, and the

25 Environment.184

1 We've also held regular intera gency meetings of

2 legal and enforcement staff to discuss enforcement

3 challenges relating to the market-based program such as

4 cap and trade and coordination of state and federal

5 enforcement efforts.

6 --o0o--

7 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

8 Now that I've described the basic struc ture of the staff's

9 proposal, I want to talk a little bit a bout the work staff

10 has underway to complete our regulatory development of cap

11 and trade. Staff is carefully consider ing the comments

12 that have been submitted on the prelimi nary draft rule.

13 These comments covered every aspect of the proposed rule

14 and rarely did we see consensus among s takeholders.

15 As I mentioned earlier, everyo ne had strong

16 opinions on limiting the use of offset credits.

17 Commenters also weighed in strongly on the portion of

18 allowances that should be auctioned, wi th most

19 environmental organizations favoring fu ll auction, while

20 several covered entities argued for a g reater portion of

21 allowances to be freely distributed to address emissions

22 leakage.

23 The utilities strongly favored an approach that

24 would allow them to redistribute allowa nce value to their

25 rate payers. The electricity sector an d environmental185

1 organizations favored bringing all sect ors into the

2 program in 2012, while transportation a nd natural gas

3 providers advocated delaying their part icipation in the

4 program until 2015.

5 Some commenters questioned the rational for

6 incorporating transportation fuels into the cap, arguing

7 that adding the price for allowances on top of

8 complementary policies would not result in additional

9 reductions and would unnecessarily incr ease costs to

10 trucking, goods movement, and agricultu re.

11 Public health and environmenta l advocates

12 emphasized the importance of addressing the potential

13 co-pollutant impacts within the program design, while all

14 stakeholders wanted to activity partici pate in a process

15 of establishing the cap and ensuring th at staff's

16 methodology for setting the cap is tran sparent.

17 Environmental organizations wa nt the cap set at

18 2012 emissions, while some covered enti ties felt that

19 setting a strict cap at 2012 emissions might reflect

20 recessionary levels and not allow room for a return to

21 economic growth. So you can see, it re ally spans the

22 whole spectrum and see some interesting collaborations

23 depending upon what the issue happened to be.

24 In April, we'll be releasing a second draft that

25 considers these comments and fills in m ost of the gaps186

1 that exist in the current draft.

2 With regard to allowance distr ibution strategies,

3 staff will be considering the EAAC reco mmendations and

4 stakeholder input along with any direct ion or

5 considerations you wish staff to take i nto account.

6 --o0o--

7 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

8 Also underway are technical analyses th at will inform our

9 regulatory development up until we're r eady to release the

10 final draft rulemaking package for the 45-day public

11 comment period in late summer. These a nalyses will

12 include an economic and fiscal analysis of the Cap and

13 Trade Program, a public health analysis , along with an

14 evaluation for the potential for locali zed emission

15 impacts and an environmental analysis.

16 We will continue to work with other State and

17 federal agencies on developing a robust enforcement

18 program as I described above.

19 Staff is also performing an an alysis of the

20 compliance path options for different i ndustries to lower

21 their greenhouse gas emissions and to w ork with them on

22 different compliance options.

23 --o0o--

24 PROGRAM DEVELOPMENT SECTION MA NAGER VAN OMMERING:

25 As the world's eighth largest economy, California is at187

1 the forefront of real and submitted cli mate action and

2 working with other states in the U.S. a nd abroad to create

3 partnerships to fight global warming.

4 2010 will be a busy year culmi nating in your

5 consideration of probably the single mo st important

6 measure of this decade. We'll be comin g back to you

7 frequently so you can observe and direc t us at several

8 critical points in the process.

9 As mentioned earlier, EAAC wil l be holding a

10 workshop next month on their evaluation of the staff's

11 economic analysis to the Scoping Plan t hat will also be

12 released next month. EAAC will also pr esent their

13 recommendations to you in March on cap and trade

14 allocation strategies.

15 In spring of this year, staff will release a

16 second draft tap and trade regulation f or public comment.

17 In September, we expect to rel ease the final

18 proposed draft and take the proposal to you in October for

19 consideration and adoption.

20 Thank you. That concludes my presentation.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u very much for a

22 concise overview of a very complicated topic. Take a

23 breath or a drink of water.

24 As you might have expected, th is topic has

25 attracted a good number of commenters. And I see they188

1 span the gamut of views on this topic, which is actually

2 helpful I think in terms of the prelimi nary process of

3 getting all of us up to speed on what's going on.

4 I just want to make a couple c omments, because

5 this is the first occasion I've had to meet with the Board

6 since returning from Copenhagen. And I think it's

7 important to set the context a little b it for what we're

8 doing here.

9 First of all, if you can remem ber back to 2008

10 when we adopted the Scoping Plan, there was a considerable

11 amount of controversy about whether we should include any

12 Cap and Trade Program in it at all. An d if so, how big it

13 ought to be with generally speaking env ironmental

14 interests in favor of no cap and trade or very limited cap

15 and trade and businesses wanting it to cover much more of

16 the emissions reductions that were need ed.

17 At this point, I think it's fa ir to say things

18 have shifted a little bit. If anything , there's more

19 comfort level on the part of the enviro nmental community

20 with the concept that if you're going t o find a way to

21 send a message through prices that carb on is something we

22 need to be budgeting very carefully tha t a cap and trade

23 system could work with caveats about of fsets and so forth.

24 And businesses expressing a lot more co ncerns about

25 whether this program could work, whethe r it's too189

1 complicated, too difficult, et cetera. So there's some

2 evolution clearly going on.

3 I think I can't overemphasize the amount of

4 interest that there is around the world in what California

5 is doing as well as the interest on the part of some

6 countries and certainly other states in participating with

7 us, not just with the Western Climate I nitiative, but the

8 European Union, which has its own Cap a nd Trade Program

9 and after 2012 will be interested in li nking up with other

10 entities that are involved in similar k inds of programs as

11 well as the eastern states.

12 So it's with the recognition t hat an

13 international treaty done through the U .N. is probably not

14 going to be the way forward, at least f or the next few

15 years, towards tackling this problem, a t the same time,

16 there's much greater recognition I thou ght from around the

17 world that this is a problem we have to tackle. But

18 people are struggling to find what the best and most

19 effective method is going to be.

20 We have been asked many times whether California

21 would launch a program that was only fo r the state of

22 California and do this all by ourselves . And I think I

23 have been careful in saying that we bel ieve that the bulk

24 of the emissions reductions that Califo rnia will take

25 responsibility for our share are going to come from190

1 the specific measures that were in the plan, things like

2 the Pavley emissions limits on vehicles or the low-carbon

3 fuel standard. But that the Cap and Tr ade Program was

4 something that we would want to see don e at a minimum with

5 other partners before we actually began handing out

6 allowances and enforcing limits and so forth. We'll hear

7 more I'm sure from staff as we go along about progress in

8 that endeavor.

9 But I think it just is worth r emembering that the

10 reason why we started down this path in the first place

11 was that there is a very widespread bel ief that you can't

12 get to the myriad of different sources and the ways in

13 which carbon is so imbedded in everythi ng we do in our

14 economy, unless you could find some met hod for allowing

15 those who get to make decisions about w hether to invest in

16 new technologies or invent new technolo gies to see there

17 would be a market out there. And that the way to make

18 that happen, to incentivize that kind o f a market, would

19 be through a cap and trade system.

20 The major alternative that peo ple put forward is

21 a tax system. And I think we all know that there's a lot

22 of issues about doing any kind of a car bon tax as well.

23 Maybe it begins to look more attractive to people when

24 they see the complexities of cap and tr ade. But on the

25 other hand, I think both politically an d from a shear191

1 efficiency perspective, we know taxes h ave problems, too.

2 So anyway, there is a lot of w ork going on here

3 in California, not only on the part of our staff and

4 volunteers like the wonderful people fr om the EAAC

5 Committee who helped us with their repo rt, but also all

6 the stakeholders who are investing so m uch time and effort

7 in this program.

8 And I think that even when we hear sometimes how

9 contentious a lot of the details of the program design

10 are, it's just worth remembering that i t's hard because

11 we're tackling something that's really hard. And we are

12 doing it for the first time literally a nywhere. But the

13 thinking that we do is clearly having a n influence on

14 thinking elsewhere in the world as well , because as we saw

15 with the Waxman Markey legislation, man y of the details in

16 that bill that has now passed the House of Representatives

17 were based on what we doing here in Cal ifornia. And we

18 get calls all the time from people in o ther jurisdictions

19 and people in Congress and the administ ration to try to

20 make sure that we're all in sync.

21 So it's a big responsibility t his Board is going

22 to be facing, and I think it's great we have an

23 opportunity now to at least get somewha t of a taste of

24 where the thinking is today.

25 If there are questions of the staff before we192

1 hear from the witnesses, feel free.

2 Yes, first Ms. D'Adamo and the n Dr. Telles.

3 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: I'm goi ng to jump in here,

4 because I wish I could stay, but I have to leave right at

5 3:00. So I have to make a couple comme nts and I do have

6 questions.

7 First of all, just a general c omment on the need

8 for us to rely on outside experts and h ave very thorough

9 and robust review before we launch. An d I'm pleased to

10 see the report with the EAAC coming bac k. I've always

11 been kind of confused about auction dis tribution for free

12 and just where we ought to land. And i t's very useful to

13 be able to rely on a Committee of that stature. So I'm

14 pleased with that.

15 And also looking forward to th e economic analysis

16 that I guess is due out in April. I'd like to see the

17 Committee maybe do a little bit more an d in the field of

18 offsets. That's an area that I think a number of us

19 commented on that we were a little unco mfortable with the

20 49 percent offset. I don't remember at what hearing it

21 was, but several months back. And I wa s of the impression

22 that staff was going to do a more thoro ugh analysis of

23 that, and now I see coming back it's st ill 49 percent. So

24 I would feel much more comfortable if w e could have a more

25 thorough review of that offset.193

1 I think it ought to be lower. I don't really

2 know how much lower, and I'm not an exp ert. So it would

3 be useful to have information from othe rs.

4 I do note that I received some letters on this,

5 and one of the environmental organizati ons did point

6 out -- I was aware that there was a pie ce of legislation

7 that the Governor vetoed providing a li mit of offsets to

8 ten percent that in the Governor's veto announcement

9 indicated the EAAC Committee was going to be reviewing

10 this. And so it sounds like there migh t be interest

11 across the street for further review we ll.

12 The other thing that I wanted to just raise is

13 the issue of protocols in relation to t he offsets. When

14 we have the forestry protocol before us , I was concerned

15 about the allowances for some clearcutt ing and at that

16 time it was made very clear that this w as just -- these

17 were just standards for voluntary measu res and that we

18 were free to adopt a higher standard, s ort of a gold

19 standard so to speak, with regard to of fsets. And from

20 what I can tell, it looks like we're no t doing that.

21 So I don't know if there's goi ng to be further

22 analysis on this or not if staff's alre ady committed, but

23 we'd like to ask that question. And if you're not

24 planning on doing further analysis and looking at a gold

25 standard for the various sectors that w e have these194

1 protocols for, I would highly encourage it. Those are my

2 comments.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u. I think offsets

4 is such an important issue that staff i s planning a whole

5 special briefing just on that topic. B ut maybe you'd like

6 to respond now on an update on what you 're working on.

7 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: First thing we'd

8 like to give you an update on is what t he EAAC is looking

9 at in terms of the offset issue. Maybe Kevin or Steve.

10 PROGRAM EVALUATION BRANCH CHIE F KENNEDY: One of

11 the key issues to understand about the use of offsets is

12 what is the economic effect, because th e argument in favor

13 of using offsets is that it provides a lower cost and

14 reduces the cost of the program overall . So that actually

15 is one of the things that we're specifi cally looking at in

16 the context of the economic analysis. Staff will be

17 putting out a draft of the analysis nex t month. The

18 Advisory Committee is actually helping us think through

19 that analysis overall. So they are hel ping us take a look

20 at that aspect of the program.

21 And as Mr. Goldstene indicated , we are intending

22 to come back with a much more thorough discussion of the

23 offset program piece of the Cap and Tra de Program next

24 month. We are having very serious disc ussions about the

25 relationship of the voluntary protocols that have already195

1 been adopted by this Board and whether those are good

2 enough and how do we structure the comp liance offset

3 program so that we are sure that we are only allowing in

4 gold standards. So we'll have more opp ortunity to talk

5 about that next month.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Any othe r preliminary

7 comments? I think -- I'm sorry. Dr. T elles had his hand

8 up first and then Supervisor Yeager.

9 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: I was li stening to Chairman

10 Nichols' comments about how important i t is to have

11 partners. And the Western Climate Init iative is our

12 partners in this. And you mentioned th at a certain subset

13 is prepared to go on board in 2012. An d who are they and

14 how far along are they? And do they ha ve a whole robust

15 cap and trade plan like this?

16 PROGRAM EVALUATION BRANCH CHIE F KENNEDY: We

17 actually had a meeting of the Western C limate Initiative

18 partners last week and where the partne rship as a whole is

19 we're in the process of working on what we're calling

20 essential elements, which are similar t o a model rule for

21 the overall Cap and Trade Program that the partners

22 collectively are working on to implemen t -- or to publish

23 by June. So there could be common unde rstanding of what

24 the broader program would look like.

25 The different partners are at different stages in196

1 terms of legal authority and sort of wh ere they are in

2 terms of being able to get the pieces t ogether in order to

3 start the program in 2012. I would say that the partners

4 that are furthest ahead and most likely to be able to

5 start right in 2012 would be California British Columbia,

6 Ontario, Quebec. But the other partner s are participating

7 very much and are looking to start it a s soon as possible.

8 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: I just h ave one follow-up

9 question. I understand that California 's emissions per

10 capita, there's probably some of the lo west in the

11 country. It's somewhere around -- I do n't remember the

12 numbers exactly, but somewhere around 1 2 to 10 tons per

13 capita versus the rest of the United St ates is somewhere

14 around 22 tons per capita. And in the Western Climate

15 Initiative, is that kind of disparity b etween California

16 and the other states?

17 Because the problem I'm having in dealing with

18 the cap and trade thing is if there's t hat much disparity,

19 it seems like the low-hanging fruit has been picked in

20 California. And all the offsets and al lowances is going

21 to be purchased cheaper outside of Cali fornia. That means

22 money from California leaving Californi a going someplace

23 else versus the other way around.

24 Do we have anything allowance wise or offset wise

25 that would be something that one of our Western Climate197

1 Initiative partners would be willing to buy because of the

2 expense?

3 PROGRAM EVALUATION BRANCH CHIE F KENNEDY: I don't

4 actually have any of those numbers offh and. I would have

5 to go and take a look.

6 But I would agree in general t erms California is

7 much more energy efficient and generall y our greenhouse

8 gas emissions per capita do tend to be lower than a lot of

9 other jurisdictions.

10 A lot of the idea of the Cap a nd Trade Program is

11 to allow sources to be able to seek out the lowest cost

12 emission reductions so you are able to get the

13 environmental benefit, which is a globa l environmental

14 benefit, at the least cost.

15 We are in the process -- one o f the analyses

16 we're looking at is taking a look at wh at real

17 opportunities are in California for emi ssion reductions

18 with this the particular programs.

19 As Chairman Nichols mentioned earlier, a lot of

20 the actual reductions we would expect t o see from the

21 covered sources are things that would b e driven by things

22 like the Pavley auto standards, energy efficiency programs

23 and standards, the LCFS, and other comp lementary measures.

24 So we think there is a lot of opportuni ty for reductions

25 happening in California. We think gett ing this program,198

1 even if it's linked to WCI, will provid e incentives for

2 people to invest in California in a way that will help

3 reduce their emissions either through d eveloping new

4 technologies or becoming more efficient . So it is an

5 issue, but we do think this is still se nding a signal in

6 the right direction.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: And I th ink big picture

8 assessing whether this project is good for California or

9 not is kind of at the core of the overa ll economic

10 assessment that we're asking the Commit tee to do. If we

11 can't demonstrate to our satisfaction a nd that of the

12 Legislature and the public this is some thing that's

13 beneficial to us, I don't think we woul d be able to go

14 forward with the program.

15 So you know, at this point, we hear a lot of

16 allegations or assertions or fears or h opes, but either

17 way, it's still unknown, you know. Wha t might actually

18 happen has to still be fleshed out. An d I think when we

19 hear the report from the EAAC Committee on the modeling

20 that they're doing and how they're doin g it, that will at

21 least help to put some boundaries aroun d some of these

22 concerns about whether what California is doing might be

23 doing really makes sense.

24 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Chairman Nichols,

25 maybe another way of looking at the con text I think Dr.199

1 Telles is getting at is that with regar d to WCI, that

2 California is about 50 percent of the e missions within

3 WCI. So we're half.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. L et's turn to

5 those -- oh, sorry.

6 BOARD MEMBER YEAGER: Speaking of the unknown, is

7 there a scenario where there would be a ction taken by the

8 federal government that would supercede or trump anything

9 we are either trying to do or at some p oint once we put

10 something into effect they take some so rt of other action?

11 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Yes. That's

12 certainly possible.

13 Congress was getting ready to act at the end of

14 last year again and, you know, yesterda y the President was

15 encouraging action again.

16 The ideal scenario is to have the market as big

17 and as robust as possible. So a nation al program would be

18 better than even a regional program, wh ich is one of the

19 reasons why we're talking about linking the two other big

20 markets linked together as possible in the future.

21 But that being said, one of th e important things

22 that we've been advocating for is to ma ke sure that we

23 still maintain the rights as a state to go further if we

24 needed to. And this is an important is sue that we're

25 saying close attention to.200

1 BOARD MEMBER YEAGER: As I rem ember, some of the

2 earlier discussion about the carbon tax and whether that

3 we as a nation went forward with rather than cap and trade

4 and trying to track all of that what's happening in

5 Washington and our actions now and keep ing it all in

6 perspective.

7 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: That might be

8 something we should also consider prese nting to the Board

9 in the near future is having Brian Turn er come out and

10 give the Board an update on the activit ies in Washington,

11 particularly if things start up again a s they had begun.

12 If things start getting active again, w e can give an

13 update on what's going on.

14 BOARD MEMBER YEAGER: I apprec iated what Lucille

15 mentioned where the groups were taking different

16 positions. And I don't know whether sh e's going to write

17 up some of that, but that would maybe h elp to have a

18 matrix just to see what issues all the various interests

19 have.

20 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: We are working on

21 developing a matrix or a high level sum mary of the

22 comments. We got lots of comments. An d we will

23 distribute that to the Board.

24 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Are w e going to follow

25 up with suggestion of having the D.C. p erson?201

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yes. Du ly noted. I think

2 it's a really good idea. We'll figure out if we can get

3 him out here for the next meeting. The February meeting

4 would be a perfectly appropriately.

5 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: And in r egards to the

6 federal plan, if it ever gets launched, has there been any

7 questioning of the federal government i f California

8 launches this three, four, five years b efore the federal

9 government does? Will there be some cr edit for surplus

10 emissions before they start their progr am?

11 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: This is an issue

12 that's discussed quite a bit and we ref er to it -- the

13 easiest way we refer it to is how we tr ansition a program

14 that's already operating at the state l evel into a

15 national program. So there is discussi on about that and

16 there is a great awareness about having to pay attention

17 to that. So if a national program does come in effect

18 after state or regional programs starte d, that transition

19 is critical.

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I guess in fairness, you

21 know, California is the first state to be as far along as

22 we are in looking at an economy-wide ca p. But the

23 northeastern states, 13 of them, are pa rtners in a Cap and

24 Trade Program that deals with the elect ric utilities

25 sector, the RGGI program, which has bee n operational for202

1 several years now. And they are also v ery anxious about

2 making sure they don't get penalized if and when a federal

3 program comes into effect.

4 This isn't just an issue for u s. It is an issue

5 of these states that have been more pro gressive on some of

6 these energy issues versus those that h ave not and how you

7 achieve some level of fairness or equit y, a topic we'll be

8 talking about today and will be talking about much more.

9 Dr. Sperling, do you have your hand up?

10 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: Yes.

11 One thought I had and one conc ern I have is over

12 the next year there's going to be a lot of attention given

13 to cap and trade. It's the lightning r od of a lot of the

14 concerns about environmental regulation generally and

15 climate policy more generally.

16 And as I thought about it, you know, all these

17 presentations we get and the way we -- many of us think

18 about it, including myself, is kind of a top-down approach

19 in the sense of what's the theory. Wha t's the overall.

20 And then we take that to the overall st ructure and even

21 take that to what are the overall econo mic impacts.

22 But, in fact, what's likely to be happening over

23 the next year is a lot of businesses, a lot of regions are

24 going to look at it in terms of what's the impact on us.

25 And a lot of the presentation talks about details203

1 to be worked out. And I'm a little con cerned that if we

2 keep being too vague, it allows a lot o f different groups

3 or organizations to craft the most cata strophic scenario.

4 And just an example of that wo uld be there's a

5 lot of concern with LADWP has a lot of coal-based

6 electricity. So you do a simple analys is, the rates are

7 going to go up in Los Angeles by 30 or 50 percent as they

8 have been saying.

9 And so my suggestion and as th is moves forward is

10 generally thinking about this a little bit and what will

11 really be the impact on different busin ess groups, on

12 different regions. And I'm not often a n advocate of

13 getting into all the details. Being a professor, I like

14 the big picture. But I think in this c ase, you know, we

15 ought to be thinking along those lines much more than we

16 might otherwise do.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Interest ing. We have a

18 brochure I'm sure we'll hear about late r. I was looking

19 at it called "Climate for Success" from the Union of

20 Concerned Scientists, which is certainl y one of our most

21 dedicated and active groups working on these issues. And,

22 you know, they have broken it down by t he additional cost

23 of a bill for a meal on a particular re staurant under a

24 climate regime. We may not be able to get to that point,

25 but that's a really helpful kind of ana lysis.204

1 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: Well, that's one way.

2 But another is a lot of the details, fo r instance, on how

3 you treat the equity between different regions. You know,

4 there is the continuing discussion abou t this massive

5 wealth transfer from south to north. A nd that discussion

6 can go on, because there's no detail to counter that.

7 And so there are a few of thes e major issues that

8 I think that are out there already. An d I think we can

9 try to -- you know, part of the questio n is I don't know

10 how far the staff proposal is actually go into detail.

11 But to the extent that it is and we can answer some of

12 those key issues that we know are alrea dy in the public

13 arena I think is all for the better in the coming months.

14 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: There is quite a

15 bit of detail in the draft that we rele ased late last

16 fall. And we'll be narrowing that down based on the

17 public input we've just received for a spring release of a

18 more tightened up package where we're r eally narrowing in

19 on what the final rule will look like. And also the

20 economic analysis that we've been doing and that's being

21 reviewed by the EAAC, I think we'll get at least some if

22 not all what they're asking for.

23 I don't know if Steve or Kevin want to add to

24 that.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Dr. Balm es.205

1 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: Well, I was just going to

2 sort of chime in after Professor Sperli ng.

3 Dr. Telles and I were talking at lunch, we were

4 asking each other how many of our patie nts will be able to

5 say what AB 32 was. And we didn't thin k very many. And

6 how many of our patients could talk abo ut climate change

7 in the sense does California have a cli mate change plan.

8 And I think I'm even going bey ond what Professor

9 Sperling was suggesting. I really thin k we have to have a

10 communications plan to try to get the a verage person in

11 California to understand what we are al l about -- and I

12 know the staff has been trying -- on to p of having to

13 craft the whole thing in the first plac e.

14 But I think especially in the current economic

15 climate and the fact that this is going to be a difficult

16 political year just because of the comp lexity of

17 everything that's going on that we need to be as clear as

18 possible about what we're about.

19 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Two v ery quick things.

20 One is the importance of the g eneral educational

21 focus is that you do all these -- peopl e take poles and

22 they say does California support or doe sn't. And those

23 pole interpretations become important. And the question

24 is how do we influence what people thin k in terms of

25 generally.206

1 But let me go back to Dan Sper ling's comment. It

2 seems to me if -- we need to hear from the people who are

3 here to speak. But if there is a numbe r of sectors, a

4 number of sections, a number of groups which are angry and

5 upset and don't like it and take the me ssage in

6 opposition, it may not make a differenc e what happens when

7 it comes to our end. There is a possib ility of

8 discrediting this process by people mar shaling their

9 opposition. So I think the point he ma kes is really an

10 important point strategically as we pro ceed.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: All righ t. Now we are at

12 the maximum point of everybody being wo rried. So we have

13 nowhere to go but forward from there I think.

14 Thank you very much.

15 We will start hearing from the assembled

16 individuals. And we'll start with Gary Liss from Local

17 Government Commission, followed by Bren da Coleman and

18 Julian Canete. These are three-minute thoughts,

19 three-minute rule.

20 MR. LISS: Madam Chair, member s of the Board, my

21 name is Gary Liss. I'm mayor of the to wn of Loomas, and

22 I'm here representing the Local Governm ent Commission.

23 I'd like to say we're here to help you, want to

24 be your local partners. There is a rea son for the slogan,

25 "Think globally, act locally," because things get done at207

1 the local level. That's where the rubb er hits the road.

2 And we've demonstrated that in vesting in improved

3 local planning will not only result in reduced greenhouse

4 gas emissions, it will also save money. The Sacramento

5 Region Smart Growth Plan is projected t o save $9 billion

6 through the year 2050 with the result o f reduced

7 infrastructure and consumer-driving cos ts.

8 As a result, we're here to ask you to support the

9 EAAC recommendation to include land use planning and

10 implementation of SB 375 and the invest ment options. We

11 ask that you set aside of the portion o f the revenue to be

12 allocated for specific plans and zoning code updates to

13 help local governments meet the state t argets through

14 smart growth, to create communities tha t are more compact,

15 walkable, and transit friendly.

16 Research has shown that smart growth and land use

17 plans can reduce vehicle miles traveled and the associated

18 greenhouse gas emissions from 20 to 50 percent.

19 We're pleased the Scoping Plan and SB 375

20 Regional Targets Advisory Committee saw that local

21 governments should be an essential part ner in achieving

22 reductions in greenhouse gases. But lo cal governments are

23 under the gun. The State keeps taking more and more of

24 our revenue. In order for us to take o n a new

25 responsibility like this, we need your help to have this208

1 be part of your program.

2 Local governments zoning ordin ances make it

3 difficult to get approval to build sust ainable smart

4 growth development at a time when impro ved land use

5 planning is required to implement AB 32 and SB 375. Local

6 government are reducing their planning due to budget

7 constraints. Without funding, they wil l not be able to

8 undertake the necessary updates of thei r codes to make

9 them consistent with the State's climat e air quality and

10 energy conservation goals.

11 So the Local Government Commis sion encourages the

12 Board to adopt the EAAC Committee's rec ommendation to

13 invest cap and trade funds in the prepa ration of specific

14 plans and zoning code updates for small and large

15 communities. Dedicating a meaningful p ortion of allowance

16 value to smart growth planning would be a cost effective

17 investment that will reduce economy-wid e greenhouse gas

18 mitigation costs. This will improve ou r communities, keep

19 money in the local economy, and reach t he state's emission

20 reduction goals.

21 This is based on testimony tha t was submitted

22 earlier on January 26th, signed by 37 p eople, mostly

23 elected officials.

24 Thank you for the opportunity to present here

25 today.209

1 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u. I did receive

2 that. Thanks very much.

3 Brenda Coleman and then Julian

.

4 MS. COLEMAN: Good afternoon, Madam Chair,

5 members of the Board. Thank you for th e opportunity to

6 comment today.

7 My name is Brenda Coleman. I' m the Policy

8 Advocate on climate change and energy f or the California

9 Chamber of Commerce, the California Cha mber of Commerce

10 participants as co-chair on the AB 32 I mplementation Group

11 on whose behalf I'm speaking today.

12 You have our written comments that we submitted

13 on the proposed draft regulation for th e Cap and Trade

14 Program, which notes our concern about the absence of a

15 sound economic analysis, the multi-bill ion dollar auction

16 tax that could cripple large industry h ere and cause more

17 leakage of jobs and economic activity a nd insufficient

18 evaluation of the economic impact of of fsets as proposed.

19 We are also concerned that you are moving forward

20 on this rulemaking without having adequ ate information on

21 the low-carbon fuel standard program.

22 The staff report on the LCFS h as been removed

23 from your agenda yet again. This means your cap and trade

24 discussion is occurring without the cri tical context of

25 how elements of the LCFS will affect no t only emission210

1 reductions but fuel costs and suppliers

.

2 We are particularly worried th at regulation of

3 transportation fuels under the cap, if adopted in addition

4 to the ambitious LCFS requirements, wil l result in

5 billions of dollars and duplicate costs that will place

6 California companies at an even greater competitive

7 disadvantage with out-of-state provider s.

8 Considering the fact that Cali fornia-only

9 policies for LCFS and cap and trade whi le costing billions

10 of dollars will have absolutely no impa ct on global

11 warming, this process becomes even more questionable.

12 The AB 32 Implementation Group urges you to take

13 a more deliberative approach to cap and trade and the LCFS

14 not only in relationship to each other within California,

15 but in the context of federal and globa l approaches to

16 climate change policy. Thank you.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

18 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Could I just ask --

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Question . Sorry. Hold it.

20 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Just quick comment on

21 the group you're representing, you're p art of it. But

22 tell us about the group you're represen ting.

23 MS. COLEMAN: The AB 32 Implem entation Group is a

24 group that has been working with the Ca lifornia Air

25 Resources Board in the implementation o f AB 32. Our211

1 primary mission of the IG is to seek co st effective

2 technologically feasible mechanisms of advancing AB 32,

3 keeping in mind its primary goals of re ducing greenhouse

4 gas emissions.

5 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Can y ou give an example

6 of some of the groups? Who's a part of this group?

7 MS. COLEMAN: The California C hamber, as I said,

8 which I'm a Policy Advocate on behalf o f the Chamber. We

9 are co-chairs of the organization.

10 Are you asking other -- to lis t other groups that

11 are --

12 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: What' s the letter --

13 besides the Chamber --

14 MS. COLEMAN: We have as well as our other

15 co-chairs is the California Manufacture rs Technology

16 Association. So CMTS.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: It's an association of

18 associations as I understand it.

19 MS. COLEMAN: Yes. There's se veral business

20 organizations that the IG is comprised of.

21 Thank you very much.

22 BOARD MEMBER SPERLING: Is WSP A a member of that?

23 MS. COLEMAN: Yes, they are.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Good aft ernoon.

25 MR. CANETE: Good afternoon, M adam Chair, Board212

1 members.

2 Thank you for the opportunity for allowing us to

3 address the Cap and Trade Program.

4 My name is Julian Canete, and I'm director of

5 operations at the California Hispanic C hambers of

6 Commerce. The State Hispanic Chamber i s the largest

7 hispanic business organization in the n ation representing

8 over 720 hispanic-owned businesses thro ugh our network of

9 over 65 hispanic chambers and business associations.

10 We're here today to urge you t o pay close

11 attention to the warnings of your Econo mic and Allocation

12 Advisory Council with respect to alloca ting emissions,

13 allowances under the California's Cap a nd Trade Program.

14 They are predicting significant job los ses and higher

15 energy costs that will have a devastati ng and regressive

16 impact on low-income households through out California.

17 With unemployment among hispanics highe r than any other

18 group in the state, this is obviously o f great concern to

19 us as well.

20 We are also concerned that the low-carbon fuel

21 standard has once again been taken off the agenda.

22 Gasoline diesel fuels will be among the most heavily

23 regulated impacted sector under Cap and Trade and the LCFS

24 with higher prices at the pump a result of that.

25 We sincerely hope that you wil l not make any213

1 binding decisions on the Cap and Trade Program without

2 first answering the critical, technical , and economic

3 questions about the LCFS. Otherwise, y ou will run the

4 risk of doubling the financial burden o f higher fuel costs

5 at a time when even moderate increases will inflict

6 serious harm on those least able to aff ord.

7 The State Hispanic Chamber of Commerce continues

8 to support the goals of AB 32. But pie cemeal rulemaking

9 without thorough and objective cost ben efit analysis is no

10 way to get there. Thank you.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. I 'm not sure which

12 warnings of our Economic Advisory Commi ttee you're

13 referring to. Staff, are you --

14 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: I'm not sure.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: -- aware of citation for

16 that?

17 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Maybe he can be

18 more specific.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: He's lef t the podium. I

20 don't want to -- you know, people can c ome here and say

21 anything they want to, I guess. But it 's always helpful

22 if they have something specific to back it up.

23 Erin Rogers, Union of Concerne d Scientists; and

24 Bill Magavern, Sierra Club; Bonnie Holm es-Gen from the

25 American Lung Association.214

1 And if you're not on the list and you wanted to

2 speak, I hope you'll give your informat ion to the clerk

3 because we've got a long list here.

4 MS. ROGERS: Hi. Thank you. I'm Erin Rogers

5 from the Union of Concerned Scientists. I brought some

6 show and tell today.

7 I wanted to start off just men tioning the study

8 that Chairman Nichols mentioned. I wan ted to make sure

9 you were all aware of it. There's been a lot of

10 controversy that's been stirred up in p art by the AB 23

11 Implementation Group about how AB 32 ma y effect small

12 businesses. And we commissioned a repo rt by a group of

13 independent economists. The report was peer reviewed and

14 it was done by the Braddle group that l ooks specifically

15 at how AB 32 may affect small businesse s. And the results

16 were that even in sort of worst-case mo st expensive

17 scenario, the impacts would be marginal

.

18 And as Chairman Nichols mentio ned, we looked at a

19 case study, a restaurant in Los Angeles , and looked at if

20 they wanted to keep their profit margin s the same

21 throughout 2020, what would they have t o do to their

22 prices because of AB 32 to stay with th e same profit

23 margins. And they would only have to r aise the price of a

24 meal three cents in 2020, a $20 meal. We think that's

25 pretty manageable and pretty worth it f or the dramatic215

1 impacts we're going to get from AB 32.

2 I wanted to segue into the sec ond topic I wanted

3 to address which is many businesses are calling for more

4 offsets in our program, because they th ink that the

5 offsets will help contain the costs of the program. We

6 think -- we disagree, first of all, tha t the costs will be

7 too hard to handle. We also think that the very large

8 amount of offsets that have been propos ed in the PDR put

9 the integrity of the program in jeopard y. So, you know,

10 the use of offsets is controversial for many reasons,

11 including the loss of co-benefit effect s that we get here

12 in California; cleaner air, more jobs.

13 And I wanted to -- I think you have a letter up

14 there that was passed out that was sign ed by 70

15 organizations and businesses, including 20 of the

16 legislators -- state legislators who wo rk on the bill that

17 passed last session calling for the off set limit to be

18 strengthened. And I hope you can take a look at that

19 later.

20 One of the reasons that we are all concerned is

21 that we think that because so many offs ets will be allowed

22 into the program, the Cap and Trade Pro gram itself will

23 not actually achieve any emission reduc tions beyond those

24 that we're going to get from Pavley and the RES and energy

25 efficiency measures.216

1 I brought this chart, because a lot of people are

2 confused about how we're thinking about this. But the

3 yellow bars here are the amount of offs ets allowed into

4 the system. And these come straight fr om the PDR, CARB's

5 own numbers and the spreadsheet that wa s sent along with

6 the PDR. The green gars are how much r eductions we expect

7 to get from cap and trade itself. And as you can see,

8 there are more offsets in the program t han cap and trade

9 reductions all the way until the very e nd of the program.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: If you c an leave your

11 chart, I'm sure we would all welcome ta king a look at it.

12 I think we understand the point though. Thank you.

13 Bill Magavern.

14 MR. MAGAVERN: Good afternoon. I'm Bill

15 Magavern, the Director of Sierra Club C alifornia.

16 And I want to say first that I thought the staff

17 presentation was both accurate and clea r on a difficult

18 topic.

19 And secondly that I completely agree with the

20 comments of the Board members on the im portance of being

21 able to really communicate the essence of this program to

22 the public, you know, which will take e ven more skill than

23 delivering the presentation today, whic h was to a more

24 informed audience.

25 But the global warming deniers and big polluters217

1 and ideologues are spreading a lot of d isinformation about

2 this program. So it's going to be impo rtant to really

3 convey the actual facts of what goes on here.

4 From the beginning of the impl ementation of the

5 Global Warming Solutions Act -- I somet imes use its name

6 instead of its number -- our position h as been that we

7 could support a well-designed cap and a uction system. And

8 it's very important that the design be sound in order to

9 avoid some of the mistakes that have be en made with other

10 emissions trading programs. And we thi nk that really the

11 best way to avoid those mistakes and ha ve a well-designed

12 program is to take the recommendation o f the EAAC and

13 auction off the allowances from the sta rt, make the

14 polluters pay for their emissions. It' s a fair and

15 transparent way to set up the system. The auction would

16 determine the value. And if the pollut ers have to pay,

17 then they will be really looking at way s they can decrease

18 their emissions and will also create re venues which, of

19 course, can go back to consumers and/or be used for

20 investments in a number of important cl ean energy

21 programs. So auctioning is I think wha t's most important.

22 We also need to make sure that we don't over

23 allocate the allowances, a mistake that was made in some

24 jurisdictions. So setting a tight cap from the start and

25 have that cap declining.218

1 And then making sure that we d on't have major

2 loopholes in the system. And so we do think there should

3 be stricter limitations on offsets. We agree with the

4 comments of UCS. And Michael Endicott later will be

5 making more specific comments for Sierr a Club on the topic

6 of offsets.

7 And enforcement is crucial. I know you've been

8 talking with the attorney general's off ice, and I think

9 they have a lot of important lessons le arned from the

10 electricity crisis and ways to avoid th e gaming and

11 manipulation of the market. We think p enalties need to be

12 strong and sufficient and include disgo rgement of any

13 illgotten gains that are made through v iolations of the

14 system as well as surrendering of allow ances in the next

15 compliance period to make sure that the re are no excess

16 emissions.

17 Thank you.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

19 Bonnie Holmes-Gen, followed by Sabrina Means and

20 Marisa Rimland.

21 MS. HOLMES-GEN: Thank you, Ch airman Nichols and

22 Board members. I'm Bonnie Holmes-Gen w ith the America

23 Lung Association of California.

24 And we did earlier this month submit a letter

25 from 25 total public health organizatio ns, state and219

1 local. And I wanted to emphasize a few key points that

2 are in this letter that we've been comm unicating to staff

3 about the Cap and Trade Program.

4 The first key point is that th e Cap and Trade

5 Program will have direct impacts, of co urse, on public

6 health. And the Board is entering into a process that's

7 very important to evaluate those public health impacts,

8 including the potential for impacts to disadvantaged

9 communities, communities that are alrea dy overburdened

10 with multiple pollution sources.

11 And this process is called a h ealth impact

12 assessment, and it's been referred to i n your staff

13 slides. But I want to emphasize the im portance of this to

14 better understand how to design this pr ogram in a way

15 that's going to lessen inequities and p romote options that

16 are the best from a public health persp ective.

17 And as we're talking about thi s tension between

18 how much detail to put out in the stree t versus how much

19 we need to continue to analyze and deve lop the program,

20 this is a case where I think we do need to make sure that

21 we complete the public health analysis before we get all

22 the details of this program worked out.

23 The health impact assessment w ill be specifically

24 looking at the auctioning -- the benefi ts, how public

25 health benefits the auctioning of allow ances, the impact220

1 of offsets both inside and outside of t he state, placing

2 quantitative limits on offsets, and wha t the impacts would

3 be of different limits, in trading rest rictions of the

4 potential impact of trading restriction s for allowances

5 and for offsets, and of course, investm ent options for

6 allowance value. So these are all very key parameters of

7 the program. And I'm just concerned th at we don't get

8 locked in on the design until we get so me of this input.

9 And we would hope that -- we'r e very concerned

10 that the information from this analysis needs to be

11 integrated into the development of the regulation.

12 And we believe it's especially important for the

13 Board to have an update specifically on this HIA process

14 and to hear not only from your staff, b ut from your

15 partner in this process, the Department of Public Health.

16 And we think that should happen before the next draft

17 comes out in the spring that you've bee n talking about.

18 While we're watching this HIA and participating

19 and doing our best to help make this su ccessful, we're

20 also urging the Board in the mean time to move toward

21 100 percent auction at the start of the program, to move

22 toward quantitative limits on offsets a nd to recommend

23 specific investment of allowance value in both mitigation

24 and adaptation, including specific inve stments in public

25 health preparedness and the public heal th infrastructure221

1 that's vitally important to address our needs in

2 California. This would include assisti ng with the

3 emergency preparedness, identifying, pr ioritizing

4 vulnerable communities, disease surveil lance systems, and

5 a number of other public health needs.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

7 Sabrina Means and then Marisa Rimland and Andy

8 Katz.

9 MS. MEANS: Good afternoon, Ma dam Chair and Board

10 members.

11 I'm Sabrina Means here on beha lf of the

12 California Transit Association, which r epresents over 80

13 transit agencies in the state as well a s approximately 19

14 transit suppliers. Thank you for the o pportunity to

15 provide comments on this item.

16 Our transit members have been following the cap

17 and trade regulation development proces s. And thus far,

18 we're supportive of a cap and trade sys tem that allows for

19 some revenues from the system to be rei nvested into

20 furthering the goals of AB 32, specific ally by reducing

21 greenhouse gases from the transportatio n sector.

22 Transit is one of the avenues by which reducing

23 greenhouse gases in the state can be ac hieved. Therefore,

24 we ask the Board to recommend that tran sit investment be

25 built into the final cap and trade regu lation having to do222

1 with allowance allocations.

2 The Economic and Allocation Ad visory Committee,

3 which has adopted its recommendations o n allocating

4 allowances for the cap and trade system specifically,

5 includes public transportation as a con sideration for

6 investment of allowances or allowance r evenues.

7 Transit currently faces signif icant market

8 barriers. An example is that fares tha t transit agencies

9 charge, which are kept at a certain lev el to maintain

10 affordability to riders, are drasticall y insufficient in

11 comparison to what the overall cost is to transport people

12 from here to there.

13 Most importantly, due to recen t state budgets,

14 the most recent being a proposal which completely

15 eliminates transit funding from the sta te, transit

16 operators have been forced to make deva stating service

17 cuts and raise fares beyond affordabili ty for riders, both

18 those that depend on transit and choice riders. The State

19 has diverted billions of dollars that s hould have gone to

20 transit agencies in the last several ye ars.

21 Transit systems are in absolut e dyer need of

22 investment by the State. And since tra nsit is a key way

23 to reduce transportation emissions, as it takes people out

24 of their cars, investing in transit fro m the cap and trade

25 system is realistically the logical way to go.223

1 The Regional Targets Advisory Committee which

2 recommended factors and methodologies f or setting regional

3 greenhouse gas targets as part of SB 37 5 also recommended

4 in their report that the State must fin d a way to increase

5 funding for transit in the state. Ther efore, they

6 acknowledge that transit is a key way f or regions to

7 reduce their greenhouse gas emissions.

8 Including transit as a recipie nt of allocation

9 investments as part of the regulation w ill help achieve

10 the goals of AB 32 and the goals of the cap and trade

11 system. We also ask that fuels be incl uded as part of the

12 cap and trade system. This will potent ially provide

13 revenue for transit as transit has hist orically funded

14 through taxes on fuels. Thus, new any costs at the pump

15 as a result of cap and trade could go t oward furthering

16 greenhouse gas reduction goals through transit investment.

17 Thank you. And we look forwar d to working with

18 you and staff as this process continues

.

19 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u very much.

20 Marisa Rimland and then Andy K atz.

21 MS. RIMLAND: Good afternoon M adam Chair, members

22 of the Board.

23 My name is Marisa Rimland repr esenting the Public

24 Health Institute. Thank you for the op portunity to

25 comment today.224

1 The first topic I'd like to ad dress is offsets.

2 We believe that the current proposed of fset limit of 49

3 percent of reductions is too large. We urge CARB to

4 re-examine this and lower it to a more appropriate level.

5 PHI believes a lower allowance of offsets is

6 necessary to maximize health co-benefit s resulting from

7 improved air quality and to verify that greenhouse gas

8 emissions are being reduced per AB 32 r equirements.

9 Offsets, with their well known additionality,

10 verification, and monitoring issues, wi ll not sufficiently

11 accomplish this. Greenhouse gas emissi ons reductions are

12 especially important in the first stage of the program

13 when the cap is only slightly below bus iness as usual

14 emissions and every ton of carbon reduc ed is crucial.

15 PHI also urges CARB to create geographic

16 restrictions on a percentage of offsets and to incentivize

17 the location of offset projects within disadvantaged and

18 disproportionately impacted communities . This can be done

19 by weighing offsets based on their geog raphic location

20 using a policy design tool such as a mu ltiplier or by

21 discounting offsets located outside of California.

22 Incorporating such protective measures into the regulatory

23 design will benefit these communities b y simultaneously

24 improving their health and creating job s.

25 The next topic I'd like to add ress is allocation.225

1 PHI believes that 100 percent of emissi ons allowances

2 should be auctioned off. One of the pr imary benefits of

3 creating a market for carbon is the exp ectation that a

4 well-designed mechanism will set a pric e for greenhouse

5 gas emissions that accurately reflects the marginal cost

6 of abatement. This price signal determ ines the decisions

7 made by producers and consumers about t he types of energy

8 and services they provide or use.

9 If emissions allowance are giv en away rather than

10 auctioned off, the pricing will be dilu ted and investment

11 in lower-emitting technologies or renew able energy

12 diminished, resulting in fewer co-benef its from improved

13 air quality as well as decreased opport unity to reduce

14 greenhouse gas emissions.

15 Auctioning all allowances will maximize the

16 revenue available to California to use in its work both

17 mitigating and preparing for climate ch ange, as well as

18 helping to offset higher energy prices for low-income

19 families who are negatively impacted by price increases.

20 We ask that a significant perc entage of allowance

21 value be invested in public health adap tation as well. It

22 is especially important that such inves tments be targeted

23 towards increasing preparedness and res ilience in our most

24 vulnerable communities. In order to ac complish this, we

25 also request that a community benefits fund be created to226

1 target effort within those communities once they've been

2 identified by CARB.

3 Thank you very much.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

5 Andy Katz and then Alex Jackso n.

6 MR. KATZ: Hi. Good afternoon , Chair Nichols and

7 Board members.

8 I'm Andy Katz representing Bre athe California.

9 And I want to support and agree with th e comments of my

10 environmental and health colleagues fro m the American Lung

11 Association, Sierra Club, and Union of Concerned

12 Scientists and Public Health Institute.

13 We have also signed onto the P ublic Health

14 Organization's letter and want to encou rage the Board to

15 take care when approving and considerin g this cap and

16 trade regulation. It is important for the Board to move

17 forward on implementing AB 32. The cap and trade

18 regulation is included in the Scoping P lan and is

19 responsible for a large amount of the g reenhouse gas

20 reductions, although not by any means t he majority.

21 But it is important that in pu rsuing this that

22 the Board take care and maximize the pu blic health

23 benefits. There is tremendous opportun ity to either move

24 forward in a way that does not maximize these health

25 co-benefits or in a way that doesn't. So it's important227

1 that many of these options be studied.

2 Right now, the California Depa rtment of Public

3 Health and the Air Resources Board have convened a public

4 health working group that I've been par ticipating in. And

5 it does seem like many of these options are to be studied

6 in a health impact assessment. I think it's important

7 that this study be thorough and that th is study accurately

8 convey to the Board the choices that yo u'll have about

9 what are the effects of reducing offset s from 49 percent

10 to a more appropriate level and a level that may provide

11 health benefits to communities that wou ld otherwise see

12 those benefits outsourced outside the s tate of California.

13 That's a serious health concer n that while the

14 greenhouse gas emissions around the wor ld may go down,

15 communities won't actually see the toxi c air contaminants

16 that they're exposed to on a daily basi s in the

17 neighborhoods. They won't actually see those reductions

18 in their neighborhoods. So it's import ant that the health

19 impact assessment be real and be inform ative to the Board.

20 I'm very concerned that in the short time line

21 that we have within a month that that s tudy will even be

22 done in as thorough enough a state to i nform your

23 discussion, your workshop at the Februa ry Board meeting on

24 offsets.

25 So I do hope that the Board wi ll ask your staff:228

1 Will this report be ready for the Board 's consideration?

2 And if not, perhaps you should have eit her a second

3 offsets workshop or postpone that offse ts workshop.

4 Either way, please do not make a final decision on offsets

5 before you have the full and accurate i nformation on

6 health impacts. That's a critical piec e.

7 Similar concerns exist for the way allowances are

8 given out. That makes a big difference in whether these

9 reductions are real, how these reductio ns happen

10 throughout the state, and what the asso ciated health

11 impacts or benefits might be. So we al so agree with the

12 EAAC in terms of full auction, 100 perc ent auction, as

13 well as strong consideration for geogra phic restrictions

14 and trading.

15 For more reference, please loo k at those written

16 comments and please insist on a strong health impact

17 assessment before you make these decisi ons.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

19 Alex Jackson and then Brian No wicki and Josh

20 Gruen

21 MR. JACKSON: Good afternoon, members of the

22 Board. I'm representing the Natural Re sources Defense

23 Council.

24 First, Chairman Nichols, I'd l ike to appreciate

25 your injection of a little bit of conte xt and perspective229

1 into this program and also for the Clim ate Champions who

2 have since departed to remind us about why we're all

3 dealing with this.

4 That said, I'm going to be wad ing into the weeds

5 on four issues.

6 The first is on the cap level. I'd like to echo

7 some of the points made earlier about t he need for a

8 strong declining cap. I think there's two reasons for

9 that.

10 The first is really to send a strong market

11 signal early that it's going to be cost effective to be

12 making the investments we're going to n eed to get at these

13 greenhouse gas reductions. You know, s etting a tight cap

14 in the initial period will really facil itate that price

15 discovery and make the price of the all owances meaningful

16 enough where people will be looking at ways to reduce and

17 not simply purchase allowances.

18 And the second is that getting to the end point

19 is not a whole ball game for cap and tr ade. The earlier

20 we can make reductions, the less warmin g we're going to

21 see and the less we're going to have to spend on

22 adaptation and all the impacts associat ed with that.

23 Second point I'd like to talk about briefly is

24 allowance value, which has come up seve ral times before.

25 But, again, I'd like to add my voice to the chorus to pay230

1 attention to the EAAC's report. They r eally put a lot of

2 efforts and careful analysis into their recommendations.

3 And we particularly support their views on 100 percent

4 auction and their general views on dist ribution of

5 allowance value.

6 The only point I think I'd lik e to raise where we

7 might differ is their breakdown on how to allocate between

8 giving back to consumers in some way an d investment, which

9 is right now roughly 75 and 25 percent. And they do

10 appreciate in the report that maybe a l ittle bit more

11 might need to go towards investment in the initial years.

12 And we think that is true. And perhaps a little bit more

13 than 25 percent is appropriate in the i nitial years of the

14 program where the market will not reall y be able to get at

15 some of these cost effective investment s because of some

16 the barriers that the transit agencies, the local

17 government representatives have been ta lking about. So

18 there is a real need in these initial y ears to be making

19 those investments with the public wealt h that generates

20 from cap and trade.

21 And, finally, I'd like to touc h on enforcement

22 briefly. I can't really stress enough how important

23 enforcement will be to maintaining the integrity of the

24 cap. And I think at this point any att ention that staff

25 and the Board can devote to really craf ting the regulatory231

1 scheme now will really pay dividends la ter in terms of all

2 the enforcement that's going to be need ed.

3 So finding some simple approac hes like a

4 multiplier we've been discussing and we submitted in our

5 comments that really send a clear signa l willful

6 non-compliance will never be in the cap ped entity's

7 economic interest, and it is risky to w ait until the end

8 of a compliance period to make those re ductions.

9 Thank you for your time.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

11 Brian Nowicki.

12 MR. NOWICKI: Thank you, Madam Chair and members

13 of the Board.

14 I'm Brian Nowicki with the Cen ter for Biological

15 Diversity, a nonprofit environmental or ganization here out

16 of Sacramento.

17 I support previous comments an d letters submitted

18 by -- previous comments by Sierra Club and Union of

19 concerned Scientists and have signed on to those letters.

20 I'm not going to recap those here, beca use what I would

21 say would not be as concise or articula te as what's

22 already been said and put forward in th ose letters.

23 So I'd like to take my time he re to focus on just

24 the offsets portion with the two main p oints.

25 One is that aside from the nee d for the strong232

1 reducing cap on offsets, there is also the need for

2 recognition that not all offsets are cr eated equal. And

3 that's with regard to both within secto rs as well between

4 sectors.

5 And in particular, I've been w orking on forest

6 offsets and using in a situation where there are very

7 loose restrictions/limitations on the n umber of offsets

8 flowing as we see in the current draft as well as no

9 restrictions on the geographic origin o f those offsets, we

10 are in a position where we could see mu ch lesser offsets

11 brought into the program than we could generate here in

12 California under California's laws. An d it would be an

13 improvement in our own state forests.

14 In particular, talking about t he forest offsets,

15 I would like to point out that you last saw me come before

16 you on this issue in the September meet ing of the Board

17 where I brought comments, brought oppos ition to the

18 adoption of the forest project protocol s that were the

19 methodology by which carbon credits wou ld be assigned in

20 the forest sector.

21 At that time, I raised a numbe r of questions

22 about clear cutting projects being incl uded under the

23 forest sector as offsets -- as carbon c redits and

24 eventually as offsets. At that time, t here was discussion

25 among the Board and questions to the st aff of ARB of233

1 whether they would have another chance -- whether the

2 Board would have another chance to addr ess the concerns

3 around clear cutting and other concerns about forestry

4 before those methodologies were adopted into the

5 compliance mechanism of the cap and tra de regulation.

6 They were assured by Executive Officer Terry they would

7 have another chance. And, yet, in the preliminary draft

8 rag, we saw language that said they int ended to roll the

9 voluntary action methodologies directly into the

10 compliance mechanisms.

11 I would like the Board to pay particular

12 attention to that methodology, especial ly given the

13 discussion and the attention you've are already given.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

15 Josh Gruen and Patty Senecal a nd Alan Osofsky.

16 MR. GRUEN: Good afternoon, Ma dam Board and

17 Commission and staff. Thanks for the o pportunity in

18 letting me speak.

19 I'm Josh Gruen, the Director o f Operations for

20 CMI. We have a family of companies, 80 0 owner/operators

21 and contractors that work with our truc king groups in the

22 state of California.

23 We're opposed to the transport ation related goods

24 movement and placed under a declining c ap. Goods movement

25 sector cannot survive a complication of increased utility234

1 rates, spikes, and higher California di esel prices, as

2 well as new trailer efficiency requirem ents. Placing

3 transportation under the cap and adopti ng a low-carbon

4 fuel standard and requiring utilities t o use renewable

5 energy cost increases all of our costs.

6 We ask that you not consider p lacing

7 transportation under this cap and that you return to the

8 public process of the low-carbon fuel s tandard into a

9 process that includes the end users.

10 I have spoken now at three pub lic workshops.

11 This is my fourth. Not only have our q uestions not been

12 answered, but the study due in 2007 to show if CARB diesel

13 is any cleaner than national fuel has y et -- the study is

14 more than two years old and it's overdu e. And as yet the

15 fuel has been -- yet a new fuel now is being adopted

16 without testing, without proving the re cipe. As we've

17 said in previous, the fuels in the past weren't tested on

18 diesel. We'll have a colleague, Allen, with Rogers

19 Trucking, our group, we'd love to test some of these

20 projects for you and see how they effec t the diesels.

21 As you guys know, the trucking and the compliance

22 of the new trucks have completely chang ed. We now have a

23 whole group of liquid natural gas truck s. We've purchased

24 300 of them and are utilizing them. We have new diesels

25 we don't know how this will affect. W e have also 1100235

1 transportation professionals signed -- are sent to you

2 that are opposed to this regulation.

3 Appreciate your time today. T hank you.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: You've k ind of thrown a

5 whole bunch of stuff here, and it's mix ed up in my mind.

6 I get it you don't want to be under the cap and

7 trade rule. I got it you've got a beef with CARB diesel

8 and you want it tested.

9 MR. GRUEN: Yes, ma'am.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So what' s the deal on that?

11 MR. GRUEN: Meaning that --

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: No, I'm not asking you. I

13 was speaking to staff.

14 MR. GRUEN: Sorry.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: That's o kay.

16 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: A

17 number of years ago, there was a Calder on bill that

18 authorized the testing of California di esel fuel versus

19 federal diesel fuel, but there was no a ppropriation of

20 money until fairly recently. So once w e got the

21 authorization, we did start. We have d one a considerable

22 amount of work already. There's been s everal public

23 workshops on that issue.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Have you been attending

25 these public workshops on the issue? S o you're aware236

1 testing is going on in response to your desire to see that

2 happen?

3 MR. GRUEN: We've been aware t esting has gone on

4 for a long time. We haven't seen the c ompleted studies

5 and haven't seen the ability to do it i n a timely manner

6 before we start taking on additional pr ocesses.

7 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I unders tand your attempt

8 to make the linkage here. I'm just try ing to find out

9 what the facts are.

10 MR. GRUEN: Trying to help.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So what are we expecting in

12 terms of getting this study done?

13 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: I'd

14 have to check and see what the final ti ming is on it.

15 I think we're pretty close to wrapping up the

16 testing. We have put out preliminary r esults so far that

17 do indicate that the California fuel is cleaner than

18 federal fuel. But we do need to wrap t he study up. I'll

19 let you know.

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Sounds l ike we've got an

21 eager audience out there awaiting it. So thank you.

22 Patty.

23 MS. SENECAL: Thank you. Repr esent the

24 International Warehouse Logistics Assoc iation, which are

25 three PLs distribution centers, Harbor Truckers for237

1 Sustainable Future from L.A. Long Beach , and I'm also part

2 of the Western States Goods Movement Al liance.

3 We are opposed to having trans portation with

4 trade-sensitive transportation put unde r a declining cap.

5 Putting transportation under a cap and mandating a

6 low-carbon fuel along with that is a do uble count for that

7 in the emission reductions and the good s movement sector.

8 In addition, the complications in the piling on a

9 lot of rules where the utilities and th e refineries are

10 going to have additional cost upstream will trickle down

11 to its end users. End users meaning tr ansportation,

12 trucking, warehousing distribution, et cetera. And we are

13 in a very trade-sensitive environment n ow and we're very

14 concerned about the piling on of the ef fect of all of this

15 cost to us.

16 Low-carbon fuel is a big cost factor for us. And

17 there is a white paper by the American Trucking

18 Association, a study about biofuels. A nd be happy to give

19 staff a copy of that, that is looking a t biofuels being an

20 additional dollar per gallon with exten ded federal excise

21 tax; and without it, two dollars a gall on. Be happy to

22 share that with staff.

23 We would like to recommend exp anding offsets to

24 25 percent from the four percent so tha t investment is

25 made in distributed energy within Calif ornia and then, of238

1 course, our nation to help lower cost.

2 I think Professor Sperling bro ught up a great

3 point, what really will impacts be. An d again that is the

4 question that as end users having to wo rk through these

5 regulations, what will the cost of our fuels be? Will it

6 be on-road tested? What is the reliabi lity of the supply

7 and vehicle performance? Are we actual ly going to get

8 more emissions/less emission reductions and the per

9 gallon -- we know with diesel particula te filters our fuel

10 economy actually went down. So again r eliability of our

11 engines, et cetera. And so these are r eally the questions

12 we're asking as end users about the imp acts.

13 And again we're opposed to hav ing transportation

14 for trade-sensitive transportation put under declining

15 cap.

16 Also for the record, we did su bmit comments

17 submitted on the 11th.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Alan Oso fsky and Derek

19 Walker and Michael Endicott.

20 MR. OSOFSKY: Thank you very m uch for letting me

21 speak.

22 My name is Alan Osofsky, safet y and compliance

23 manager for Rogers Trucking in San Lean dro, California.

24 We have 150 employees, teamster drivers . We've dumped a

25 lot of money in the local economy; empl oyee taxes, we buy239

1 tires, so on, so forth. But our future is questionable.

2 The previous two speakers stol e my thunder, but

3 I'll reiterate it anyway. We are oppos ed to placing

4 transportation and goods movement under the CARB cap and

5 trade rule. Again, we believe it's dou ble counting and

6 double cost and causes leakage out of t he state of

7 distribution centers, which we service.

8 I'd like to comment on the low -carbon fuel

9 standard. I'd hate to see that we'd be coming under both

10 regulations. We have personal experien ce with the

11 reformulation of a fuel back in 1994. Twelve of our

12 trucks went down when the diesel fuel p umps went bad. The

13 State was generous in helping us replac e those, and we

14 appreciate that. Based on the Bill AB 3290 reimbursed

15 diesel owners. I have a copy of that h ere. But it didn't

16 compensate us for the down time.

17 But my point here is on the lo w-carbon fuel

18 standard, we'd like formal testing to b e done. I've

19 offered our fleet as a test fleet at th ree different

20 meetings that I've attended between 200 8 and 2009 and that

21 still stands.

22 Again, I'll summarize. We req uest that you not

23 place transportation under the cap and also allow offsets

24 of up to 25 percent, and hopefully that will include more

25 people and businesses in the program an d bring the cost240

1 down for everybody.

2 Thank you very much.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

4 Derek Walker from EDF.

5 By the way, my machine was buz zing up here,

6 because there was a news alert from Was hington that the

7 United States through Todd Stern, our c limate negotiator,

8 has made a commitment at the U.N. that the U.S. is going

9 to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions about 17 percent

10 below 2005 levels in the next decade. So by 2020, a 17

11 percent reduction below 2005.

12 So just a point I think. I gu ess the President

13 is following up on his commitments and as of what he said

14 last night, but also just a reminder th at there is a

15 context here that we're all working in. Thank you.

16 MR. WALKER: And this is Derek Walker, Director

17 of Climate Program and EDF, and certain ly a reminder

18 California's leadership has stimulated a lot of aggressive

19 action and collaboration among countrie s and other states.

20 Cap and trade is the most effe ctive tool that we

21 have for climate policy to generate qui ck reductions at

22 the lowest cost. And so EDF strongly s upports CARB's

23 inclusion of the Cap and Trade Program as a core element

24 within AB 32 implementation.

25 We certainly appreciate the co mments not only241

1 earlier but just now by Chair Nichols a bout the context

2 here. The risk of California going off track right now,

3 especially when in D.C. things are not looking so

4 positively, California is -- the light is shining on us

5 and our actions carry tremendous weight . So this Board's

6 support for CARB staff and the process is very vital. And

7 we thank you for that.

8 I want to mention a couple of specific things

9 about why the Cap and Trade Program and the other policies

10 that ARB is working on are so vital.

11 You know, climate policies lik e the Cap and Trade

12 Program and the renewable energy standa rd are really the

13 backbone of innovation, promoting innov ation, and also

14 helping with our economic recovery. An d I know that you,

15 the Board, has seen a lot of materials that outline those

16 positive economic impacts. So I don't need to really go

17 over much of that right now.

18 In terms of the specific good ideas in the PDR,

19 expanding the program to include transp ortation fuels and

20 natural gas in the first part of the pr ogram is an

21 extremely positive development. We do urge the Board to

22 keep that in there. This makes the mar ket larger. This

23 lowers the cost strain on other regulat ed entities. But

24 it also drives down an important part o f the emissions

25 portfolio of California.242

1 We also -- EDF strongly suppor ts the inclusion of

2 offsets in the program. We do not have concerns about the

3 levels that CARB is proposing. We beli eve that there are

4 many examples of offsets promoting inno vation in things

5 like sustainable agricultural and fores try projects,

6 waste, and other sectors.

7 And just to kind of address so me of the comments

8 that we've heard earlier, this is a con versation about cap

9 and trade, but cap and trade is but one of the package of

10 policies that ARB is demonstrating lead ership on. So

11 there are going to be lots and lots of benefits from ARB's

12 AB 32 implementation on a range of issu es from criteria

13 pollution to energy sector innovation a nd investment. And

14 I would just urge everyone to keep that in mind and not

15 focus so much on cap and trade as if it 's the only thing

16 ARB is doing.

17 Thanks a lot.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u, Mr. Walker.

19 Michael Endicott and then Edwi n Lombard. And

20 those are the last names on my list. S o if you were

21 planning to speak and your name hasn't been called, please

22 make sure you turn in a card. Thank yo u.

23 MR. ENDICOTT: Good afternoon. My name is

24 Michael Endicott, Resource Sustainabili ty Advocate for

25 Sierra California.243

1 I'm going to go to one level b elow what Mr.

2 Magavern talked about, which was the ov erall design of

3 this program and look at the offsets co mponent.

4 Only the laws of nature are im mutable. Gravity

5 will do what gravity does all the time. If we don't put a

6 cap on our greenhouse gas emissions, we will get to the

7 tipping point. And the laws of man, wh ich we're trying to

8 construct here, are often more a statem ent of intent.

9 Just because you put up a speed limit s ign, it can effect

10 behavior, can get people to slow down, but doesn't mean

11 they'll actually drive 65 or 55 or 20.

12 So it's important that you pay attention to the

13 big details, but also the small compone nts of your

14 program, include the offset program.

15 And to steal Mr. Nowak’s phras e, not all

16 offsets are created equal. Within even offset programs,

17 there are some that will get you actual certain

18 reductions, and those should be priorit ized and launched

19 first.

20 Secondly, you could have the k inds of offsets

21 that might actually give money to dispr oportionately

22 impacted communities to purchase energy -efficient

23 refrigerators or air conditioners. Wou ld also help reduce

24 emissions, because you wouldn't need to have that

25 increased power demand.244

1 On the lowest of the totem pol e, you get to

2 carbon sequestration. That one has the most presumptions,

3 the most modeling, the most assumptions built into it. So

4 in that, not all of them are created eq ual either. Some

5 of them will have some co-benefits. So that if we don't

6 get as much carbon reduction as we had planned, at least

7 we're getting something good. Some hav e bigger risks by

8 the practices, by encouraging those kin ds of business

9 practices, say, that operate on the edg es of regulatory

10 scheme that also push the boundaries of nature's carrying

11 capacity.

12 Within that, one particular on e concerns us very

13 much. Mr. Nowicki referred to that. W e do not think you

14 can clear-cut your way out of climate c hange and we ask the

15 Board not to try to do that at least in the first two

16 cycles of your role out of this program . We need to take

17 time to revisit that protocol.

18 So going back up and to finish this to give you a

19 little extra time as you close up, reme mber, please, that

20 all offsets are not created equal. And we really

21 shouldn't try to clear-cut our way out of climate change.

22 Thank you.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

24 Edwin Lombard.

25 MR. LOMBARD: Thank you, Madam Chair and Board245

1 members and staff.

2 I'm here today representing th e California Black

3 Chamber of Commerce. Over the last yea r-and-a-half, I've

4 made public comments in front of the Bo ard here a number

5 of times about the fact that we're alar med by the

6 projected billions of dollars in costs of the

7 implementation of AB 32.

8 We're here today because we're even more alarmed

9 since the release of EAAC's recommendat ions relating to

10 the cap and trade proposal. The propos al projects higher

11 prices in electricity, natural gas, gas oline, and

12 recommends billions of taxes and compen sation for job loss

13 and higher energy costs related to AB 3 2 seemingly before

14 factoring in the cost of the LCFS, whic h was not discussed

15 today. Cap and trade and LCFS are prog rams with cost

16 implications that will overwhelm all Ca lifornians, but

17 will disproportionately affect minority small businesses.

18 One cannot be considered witho ut examining the

19 other and its impacts. We have seen ca p and trade is

20 frightening, but even more frightening when you haven't

21 seen the cost of LCFS.

22 The rest of the nation and the world are taking a

23 more fiscally responsible approach to c limate change and

24 carbon reduction. California could dra stically reduce its

25 carbon and greenhouse gas emissions and still not put a246

1 dent into world global warming.

2 Unemployment among African Ame ricas in California

3 is over 15 percent higher than any othe r state group.

4 Before driving figures higher, we strongly

5 encourage that you get all the facts of the cost of

6 implementing cap and trade and the low- carbon fuel

7 standards and make sure that we're awar e of the cost that

8 we're going to be facing in order to ma ke this

9 accomplished.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Excuse m e. I just want

11 to -- you made a reference to some othe r country that you

12 think is doing a more fiscally responsi ble job.

13 MR. LOMBARD: I said the rest of the United

14 States and the world are taking a more fiscal approach in

15 implementing reduction of greenhouse ga ses. I mean, you

16 just told us that the President is goin g to take a 17

17 percent reduction based on 2005.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: From 200 5.

19 MR. LOMBARD: Right. To me, t hat's a more fiscal

20 approach than what we're trying to get done.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I see. I didn't understand

22 what you meant. Thank you.

23 All right. Are there other wi tnesses on this

24 item?

25 I think one thing we've learne d, if nothing else,247

1 is the price of leadership is a lot of concern, if not

2 dissension on the part of people that n eed to come along

3 and be a part of this program.

4 Clearly, a number of groups ar e here today primed

5 to talk about low-carbon fuel standard, and we're unhappy

6 that we didn't get to talk about the lo w-carbon fuel

7 standard today. But that was not on th e agenda. And it

8 will be on the agenda at some point in the future. But in

9 the mean time, we're expecting an updat e on that from the

10 staff. So maybe we can hear from you a bout what you're

11 planning to do with that.

12 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: We

13 intend to give you and the rest of the Board members a

14 memo on the status of where we are in t he low-carbon fuel

15 standard. We expect to have that in th e next two to three

16 weeks. That memo will be made public a nd will summarize

17 the status of all the direction that th e Board has given

18 us where we're at.

19 We then intend to come back in the June/July time

20 frame with an update as well as any rec ommendations that

21 we have for regulatory changes to the L CFS. And, of

22 course, we'll be back at the end of the year for another

23 update.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. S o the Board when we

25 adopted the rule obviously set in motio n a lot of248

1 activity. But as of yet, decisions on many points really

2 are awaiting further work. And so we'v e got to take a

3 look at this report and see where we ar e.

4 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER:

5 Correct.

6 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yes, ple ase.

7 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: I wonder if you can maybe

8 research and give us some information o n what other

9 jurisdictions have done with their allo cations in the

10 public health sector and how successful they've been, if

11 Europe has done anything, if the east c oast plan has done

12 anything. Because I think that's impor tant, but it's

13 rather nebulous. And if there is any p ractical things

14 that have been done out there and some of the areas that

15 have already started cap and trade.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think that's in the

17 public health analysis, isn't it? Or n o? Are they

18 reviewing that as part of the analysis?

19 PROGRAM EVALUATION BRANCH CHIE F KENNEDY: I'm not

20 certain whether that was actually part of the plan for the

21 analysis already. But I do think that it is a good idea

22 to take a look at that if we weren't al ready -- if that's

23 not already in progress, I think we can do that.

24 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: If you c ould get a report

25 back to Dr. Telles. And I think all th e Board members249

1 would be interested to know what eviden ce there is out

2 there of any examples of this kind of a n approach.

3 Mayor Loveridge.

4 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: Just three comments sort

5 of from 40,000 feet.

6 At the local level, one of our mantras is KISS,

7 keep it simple, stupid. This is the ot her end of the

8 continuum in terms of complexity and be ing comprehensive.

9 I think as we approach this th e problem is that

10 it's seen as zero sum. People see them selves as losing

11 rather than winning in this effort. An d I think for

12 effective presentation, we have to tran slate what we're

13 doing to the benefits for the economy, the benefits for

14 quality of life, for why this will enha nce California's

15 economy, will enhance what happens to i ndividuals.

16 Third comment, this is now as mayor of the city

17 of Riverside, a city which sees 30 perc ent increase

18 according to our public utility directo r, really

19 representing five million people in sou thern California

20 from SCPPA is 30 percent increase in it s utility rates is

21 not something that five million people will except.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, I think from the

23 40,000 foot level, you can say global c limate change is

24 real. And most people understand that, as science has

25 been telling us for quite a long time n ow.250

1 On the other hand, it's not as present in their

2 minds as other things they're more worr ied about. And

3 most of the changes, if not all of the changes, that we

4 see coming as a result of having an eff ective

5 implementation of AB 32 or any other Gl obal Solutions

6 Act -- I think is better to call it by its name, I agree

7 with that -- are things that most peopl e recognize are

8 going to happen and need to happen anyw ay. The transition

9 to cleaner fuels, the transition to a m ore

10 energy-efficient lifestyle, the transit ion to cleaner

11 electricity, these are things that we k now we need to do

12 for lots of reasons. People have been talking about it

13 for years, for the economy, for energy independence, for

14 national security, and for the environm ent, of course.

15 So global warming is just kind of one more reason

16 to do a lot of things that many people I think their

17 consensus is need to do anyway. I don' t think there's

18 anybody who's advocating that we burn m ore gasoline or we

19 drive more miles or that we use energy less efficiently.

20 The issue is the transition an d how fast it's

21 going to be and how we're going to pay for it, how we

22 generate the money to pay for it.

23 I think the irony of the cap a nd trade discussion

24 is that the people who invented this co ncept were looking

25 for a way to generate money to help wit h the transition.251

1 The idea was instead of regulating peop le and saying use

2 less, burn less, whatever, the idea was that by putting a

3 cap on the bad stuff, which is the carb on, and then

4 selling the allowances by auction or wh atever, that you

5 would generate resources that would the n allow you to do

6 investments in good stuff that everybod y wants.

7 But when people we actually st art to look at the

8 fact that they might be the one who has to buy the

9 allowances or potentially at least init ially deal with the

10 cost, then the fear factor takes over. And the natural --

11 in a democracy, we all want to be winne rs and don't want

12 to be the ones to have to pay the cost.

13 So this is going to be a tough balance. It

14 really is.

15 I think the one thing we don't have the luxury of

16 doing is nothing. We could change the program. We could

17 fix it in various ways. We can do some thing different, if

18 we don't want to do cap and trade. Alt hough every time

19 I've met with a group of business peopl e and asked them,

20 you know, to work through what the opti ons are and is

21 there something else they would rather see happen than cap

22 and trade, there's not a program that p eople really like a

23 whole lot better. But they do want to be -- they want to

24 make sure that somehow it doesn't cause too much

25 disruption right away. And I think we have to take that252

1 into account. There's no question abou t it. We have to

2 be mindful of that.

3 Yes, sir.

4 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: If I da re make a comment,

5 but just sitting here listening, when w e started out, it

6 was we were going to look at those busi nesses or agencies

7 that were emitting these greenhouse gas es. And the whole

8 idea was instead of them reducing was t o be able and find

9 the lowest cost ways to remove or to su pplement, to trade,

10 in effect.

11 We've come a long way from the re, and we're

12 creating a very complex model now. And I think people are

13 having trouble understanding it. And I think the

14 implications I think we're getting into -- we're already

15 starting to see the line up of people. We heard that

16 cities need the money to do their plann ing and that other

17 groups need it because they're going to be unfairly

18 impacted.

19 This thing is going in a direc tion that at least

20 wasn't clear when we started and sounde d much simpler.

21 And I remember the discussion maybe having a

22 carbon tax instead. So it's all starti ng to sound very

23 simple in comparison to the issues that are being raised.

24 And I have some pretty strong concerns, because

25 this is not how high most people's rada r scopes. It's253

1 well behind the concerns over the econo my and jobs. And I

2 think, you know, we live this every day , but there is a

3 world of people out there that are face d with issues that

4 are very different.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Oh, abso lutely.

6 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: And, yo u know, I will sit

7 and listen, but I have some concerns fr om the 40,000 foot

8 level where this is going and the costs and the

9 complexities and perhaps the backlash.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, I think there really

11 needs to be a better way of describing what some of the

12 differences are and the assumptions tha t people are

13 making.

14 On the other hand, you see som ething that says a

15 three cents increase in the cost of a $ 20 meal in 2020.

16 And that doesn't take into account any of the possible

17 things that that business might do that would actually

18 benefit them, like putting in LED light s on their exit

19 signs or, you know, buying a more effic ient refrigerator

20 or something, with help from their loca l utility.

21 And then, on the other hand, y ou hear about

22 impossibility of people operating their businesses.

23 There's something fundamental in the wa y these programs

24 would work that people are disagreeing about, and we need

25 to have a better way of at least articu lating why one view254

1 is the one that ought to prevail over t he other before we

2 make a decision. And that is something that I think we

3 have not really seen. That's not what the economists do.

4 This is a much more down-to-earth kind of discussion that

5 we really need to be able to have.

6 So I share your concerns about the level of

7 discord that's out there right now.

8 Okay. I think we have no acti on to take. This

9 was intended to be educational. It has been educational.

10 Very much appreciate all the people who have come and

11 taken the time to help educate us.

12 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: This

13 is me.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yes, you

.

15 STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION CHI EF FLETCHER: I

16 just want to close a loop here. The AB 679 report on the

17 federal testing versus the California t esting on the

18 fuels, we expect to get the final repor t in May. We still

19 have some testing to do, but that's in May. There is a

20 work group meeting actually on February 4th. So I just

21 wanted to mention that increase the gen tleman would like

22 to --

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think the gentleman who

24 was asking about that left right after he testified, but

25 maybe you can get the information to hi m. Thank you.255

1 We'll take a five-minute stret ch break and resume

2 our final action, which is a report and update on the

3 Board's enforcement program.

4 (Thereupon a recess was taken. )

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We're ge tting ready to take

6 up our last item of the day on ARB's en forcement program.

7 I'm going to give Mayor Loveri dge credit for

8 something that he said to me after the meeting broke up.

9 It's just a good reminder for all of us . And I would like

10 to have staff imprint this on your palm or your forehead

11 or something which is that what Obama s aid last night

12 what -- the President said last night a bout the country

13 that figures out this energy game is th e country that's

14 going to be a winner is exactly what we 're talking about

15 in California. It's why the Legislatur e passed the Global

16 Warming Solutions Act in the first plac e. It's the

17 success we've already had so far with o ur energy programs

18 and our environmental programs that hav e made the state

19 able to grow and retain its natural res ources and

20 environmental quality at the same time.

21 And we're doing what we should be doing to build

22 on that success, and we believe that it 's to our advantage

23 economically to be doing it. The Legis lature would have

24 never have passed AB 32 in the first pl ace if we weren't

25 convinced by being ahead of the game we were going to be256

1 attracting investment here. It's alrea dy proven to be

2 true. But we cannot ever even talk abo ut this topic

3 without mentioning those facts and the benefits that we

4 see in AB 32.

5 We're living in a time of bad budgets. We know

6 that the job picture is bad. We know t he economy is bad.

7 We are the bright spot in all of that. We are the

8 solution, not the problem. Just need t o remember that.

9 So thank you, Mayor Loveridge, for reminding me

10 when we were taking our break.

11 The next item is an update on ARB's Enforcement

12 Program. As I mentioned at the July Bo ard meeting when we

13 were in San Diego, the Air Resources Bo ard's then

14 relatively new Chief Counsel had alread y started working

15 with our Enforcement Division on a revi ew of our

16 Enforcement Program, because it was one of the things I

17 had asked her to do when she came on bo ard.

18 With a multitude of new regula tions that have

19 been passed on a whole range of various subject areas, the

20 Air Resources Board needs to be sure th at those we

21 regulate know about the requirements, t hat the

22 requirements are enforced fairly, and t hat the enforcement

23 process is transparent.

24 And, indeed, in terms of publi c understanding and

25 support for programs, one of the things that I've learned257

1 over the years of working in this area is that enforcement

2 is key to how the public perceives the program. They need

3 to know that it's happening. They also need to know that

4 it's being done fairly.

5 In open comment periods at rec ent Board meetings,

6 a new industry coalition emerged and is voicing concerns

7 about the Board's Enforcement Program. So that was a good

8 opportunity for direction to staff to f ormally begin a

9 process to review these concerns and to invite the public

10 in as well.

11 The Air Resources Board reache d out through an

12 open forum to solicit ideas about how t o improve our

13 Enforcement Program. And I stepped int o a small portion

14 of the meeting that took place here in Sacramento, and I

15 was very pleased at the diversity of or ganizations that

16 had taken the time. And we really do a ppreciate all of

17 those who gave us their views as part o f this process.

18 So I'm now going to turn to Mr . Goldstene to

19 present the results of the process so f ar.

20 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Thank you, Chairman

21 Nichols.

22 As you noted, we've undertaken extensive outreach

23 efforts, and we're going to present our preliminary

24 efforts today.

25 There are a number of ideas th at we've received,258

1 including the recommendation to develop penalty guidance

2 and other measures to increase the tran sparency of our

3 Enforcement Program.

4 Interested parties are encoura ged to provide

5 their comments today in response to wha t we present to you

6 today. We look at this as an iterative process and would

7 like to continue to capitalize on the v aluable dialogue

8 that this process has inspired so far. Staff will

9 continue to evaluate new comments as th ey come in, and we

10 plan on holding another public workshop and report back to

11 the Board in the next few months.

12 I do want to make one specific observation. All

13 though most commenters address the issu e of how to enhance

14 and improve our Enforcement Program, fe w commenters have

15 been rather persistent in using this pr ocess as a platform

16 to resolve their own current pending vi olations. Our

17 view, of course, is that this approach is

18 counterproductive, and we hope that tha t effort will stop

19 because we really want to focus on the general policies.

20 This is not the forum to handle individ ual violations that

21 are under investigation.

22 Jim Ryden, Chief of ARB's Enfo rcement Division,

23 will brief the Board on the status of o ur efforts to date.

24 We were guided in our review by the att orney general's

25 office staff, and today Deputy Attorney General Will259

1 Brieger is here and he'll make some bri ef comments after

2 Mr. Ryden concludes.

3 Jim will start by responding t o the comments from

4 the -- he'll give an overview of where we are and respond

5 to other comments that have been made i n Board open

6 sessions over the last few Board meetin gs. And then we'll

7 be available to answer any questions yo u have.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. T hank you. So this

9 is a policy review. We're not talking about getting into

10 the specifics of individual enforcement cases.

11 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: That's right.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. G ood. Because I

13 really don't think this is the place to be doing that.

14 Okay. Thank you.

15 Let's begin.

16 (Thereupon an overhead present ation was

17 presented as follows.)

18 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: Thank you.

19 And good afternoon, Chairman Nichols, B oard members.

20 I'm Jim Ryden, Chief of ARB's Enforcement

21 Division.

22 --o0o--

23 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: We've worked

24 closely with the attorney general's off ice to review the

25 way we conduct enforcement at the ARB t o ensure that it260

1 complies with all legal requirements.

2 With that input as well as sug gestions from the

3 regulated community and the public, we are implementing

4 some of the changes and continuing to l ook at issues.

5 First, I'd like to address the main comments you

6 heard from the new industry coalition b y summarizing them

7 and providing our current thinking on t hem.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Is this the group that's

9 called CEERT?

10 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: Yes.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. S ounds like another

12 new organization.

13 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: We're talking

14 about CEERT that's headed By Mr. Dunlap

.

15 We are implementing several of the suggestions we

16 heard from this group, including a mode l penalty guidance,

17 looking at our administrative hearing p rocess, and

18 augmenting our ability to take enforcem ent action against

19 illegal uncertified products imported i nto the

20 United States.

21 --o0o--

22 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: The first

23 comment you heard from this coalition w as that the ARB

24 should loosen existing laws for strict liability for

25 violations of air quality requirements. Strict liability261

1 for violations is established in statut es and regulations

2 we enforce. It is the typical standard in environmental

3 laws across the country, because enviro nmental violations

4 involve ongoing business activity and a re not usually

5 committed intentionally or even neglige ntly.

6 Under strict liability, a viol ator's intent helps

7 determine the amount of penalty. The c oalition commenters

8 urged ARB to adopt a system in which vi olators could avoid

9 strict liability. This would put the A RB out of step with

10 most environmental laws and leave many violations

11 unpunished.

12 --o0o--

13 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: The next

14 comment you heard from the new coalitio n urged ARB to

15 require mandatory administrative hearin gs, instead of

16 following the current ARB practice of w orking with

17 violators to reach mutually agreeable s ettlement based on

18 the facts and the law of each case. Al lowing violators to

19 invoke mandatory administrative hearing s instead of

20 working with us to settle cases would i ncrease both

21 settlement costs and the time it takes to reach

22 settlements. Both would result in fewe r violations being

23 addressed.

24 In addition to being long and costly, after an

25 administrative hearing, both ARB and th e violator have the262

1 option to challenge it all over again i n court, adding to

2 the expense and burden of the process.

3 Instead, the ARB handles case settlements the way

4 most other agencies do. Our settlement s are a product of

5 mutual agreement between the ARB and vi olators, and

6 neither side is able to dictate the ter ms to the other.

7 In fact, we settle 99 percent of our ca ses, so we do not

8 have much of a need for holding adminis trative hearings.

9 If we can't settle a case on t hose rare

10 occasions, ARB shoulders the burden and expense of proving

11 the violations in court. Litigation is seldom a winning

12 proposition for us, even if we technica lly win the

13 lawsuit, because litigation puts a huge strain on our

14 staff and resources.

15 Penalties must be deposited in the Air Pollution

16 Control Fund for appropriation by the L egislature, not in

17 our operating budget to compensate us f or our litigation

18 expense. These are the realities of th e situation.

19 That being said, we are lookin g at the

20 administrative hearing regulations that the ARB currently

21 has on the books.

22 --o0o--

23 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: The next

24 comment that you heard from the new coa lition is that the

25 ARB should adopt a complicated U.S. EPA policy for263

1 determining penalties in mobile source cases that is based

2 on federal law and is barely a year old

.

3 The U.S. EPA mobile source pen alty policy is not

4 a good fit for the ARB Enforcement Prog ram, mainly because

5 California and federal mobile source pe nalty statutes are

6 entirely different.

7 Moreover, when implementing th e U.S. EPA mobile

8 source penalty policy, the federal staf f also uses its

9 discretion in applying certain factors, such as evaluating

10 the violator's intent.

11 The bottom line is, instead of adopting U.S.

12 EPA's penalty policy as suggested, ARB will continue to

13 evaluate the facts of individual cases and apply the

14 California statutory factors.

15 The 99 percent settlement rate reflects how well

16 ARB's existing process works. However, we believe that

17 there is merit to adopting a penalty gu idance that is

18 consistent with California law and incr eases the

19 transparency of our Enforcement Program . Later in my

20 presentation, I will discuss the action we are taking in

21 more detail.

22 --o0o--

23 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: You also heard

24 comments from the new coalition that AR B should

25 concentrate on prosecuting emissions vi olations and either264

1 ignore other violations or impose nomin al penalties.

2 We do concentrate on emissions violations, but we

3 also prosecute other violations as well . Some coalition

4 commenters argue that the violations of ARB's engine

5 emission certification requirements are simply paperwork

6 violations. We disagree. ARB consider s selling vehicles

7 that are not certified to ARB emission standards to be

8 emissions violations. The emissions th at come out of

9 uncertified vehicles are illegal. They should not occur

10 at all.

11 The only way to protect our ce rtification

12 programs, the emission standards they i mplement, and the

13 many law-abiding companies that spend t heir time and

14 resources to comply with ARB's certific ation requirements

15 is to impose substantial penalties for certification

16 violations. Since the Health and Safet y Code provides

17 these substantial penalties for violati ons, the ARB is

18 merely reflecting the Legislature's dec ision.

19 These commenters also urged us to augment

20 enforcement against illegal uncertified products being

21 imported into the United States. We ag ree and have been

22 seeking to do this for several years, b ut we have made

23 less progress than we would like in dis cussions with

24 federal customs officials and others. We are working with

25 the coalition commenters to help obtain the necessary265

1 authority to inspect products at the po rt.

2 --o0o--

3 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: You were also

4 told that the ARB should stop enforcing alleged

5 underground regulations, one of the coa lition commenters

6 claimed had not been adopted through th e Administrative

7 Procedures Act.

8 ARB does not enforce undergrou nd regulations. We

9 have our hands full enforcing the regul ations this Board

10 adopts. The Office of Administrative L aw recently

11 declined to rule on the underground reg ulation petitions

12 that these commenters, the California M otorcycle Dealers

13 Association and the Sand Car Associatio n, brought to your

14 attention at open sessions of recent Bo ard hearing.

15 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Could I just -- I want to

16 clarify this, because I think this term "underground

17 regulations" sounds like something nefa rious, and it

18 probably is. Basically, the idea is an agency would

19 attempt to enforce something that had n ever actually been

20 adopted as a regulation, is that --

21 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: Or should have

22 been adopted.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: It shoul d have been adopted

24 through a formal process, but they didn 't do it, but

25 they're still trying to go after people for violating it.266

1 And to do that would be illegal and it would be a defense

2 if we were to try to bring a case --

3 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: It would be an

4 absolute defense.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Then the defendant in that

6 case could say I'm not responsible, bec ause they did not

7 adopt this regulation, and they would w in.

8 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: That's

9 correct.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay. T hank you.

11 --o0o--

12 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: Finally, you

13 were told the compliance assistance and training

14 activities currently housed in the Enfo rcement Division

15 should be transferred away; people are allegedly reluctant

16 to interact with ARB enforcement staff.

17 Over the years, we have traine d thousands of

18 people from industry, academia, governm ent agencies, other

19 organizations, and members of the publi c and have never

20 heard this concern expressed. In fact, our training is

21 the model for other states and nations and other

22 countries. Enrollment is, in fact, gro wing.

23 For example, in 2008, we train ed about 4,000

24 people. In 2009, we trained almost 9,0 00 people.

25 Also, clients appreciate getti ng information from267

1 the enforcement perspective. The ARB h as other compliance

2 assistance programs that it's conducted by, for example,

3 the Ombudsman, other ARB staff through toll-free hotlines,

4 websites, problem resolution, program i mplementation, and

5 financial incentives.

6 --o0o--

7 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: ARB brought an

8 action against individuals selling sand cars. Sand cars

9 are essentially off-road dune buggies w ith extremely large

10 engines that were not certified to ARB emission standards.

11 After the sand car settlement was entered, an

12 individual complained to the Board. In response, we

13 opened an investigation into the allega tions you heard.

14 This investigation is ongoing. But to date, the

15 allegations have not been substantiated

.

16 Contrary to what you heard, we do give people

17 detailed explanations of how their pena lties are

18 calculated. We issue citations, notice s of violations,

19 and penalty evaluations based on the pe nalty amounts and

20 factors established in law, such as har m the violation

21 caused, how long it lasted, what the vi olator did to

22 correct, and the financial burden the p enalty would place

23 on the violator.

24 --o0o--

25 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: In summary,268

1 right now I'd like to summarize the oth er comments we

2 received and ways we are addressing the m.

3 We always seek to improve the Enforcement Program

4 and these proposals came out of outreac h efforts recently

5 taken in your direction. These outreac h efforts have been

6 quite productive, thanks to the high le vel public

7 participation.

8 We'd like to think that the pu blic's outstanding

9 response was due to ARB's outreach abil ities, but there is

10 something bigger in play here. ARB's E nforcement Program

11 is receiving a great deal of interest l ately because of

12 the ambitious regulations this Board ha s adopted. These

13 regulations will now impact industries and individuals who

14 have never before been subject to ARB c ompliance

15 obligations.

16 Based on these comments we rec eived, now is an

17 excellent time to increase our transpar ency of what we do,

18 provide additional compliance assistanc e, especially to

19 the new regulated companies and individ uals, and to

20 augment our efforts in environmental ju stice communities.

21 We look forward to continuing this dial ogue.

22 Before I present the specific actions we are

23 taking, I would like to briefly summari ze our outreach

24 activities.

25 --o0o--269

1 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: We reached out

2 to all the parties interested in ARB's Enforcement Program

3 in various ways. Toward that end, staf f held a public

4 workshop on October 12th, 2009. The wo rkshop notice was

5 distributed widely by the largest e-mai l broadcast in ARB

6 history and reached approximately 350,0 00 people,

7 businesses, and other organizations.

8 Enforcement Division staff fol lowed up with

9 hundreds of direct calls to parties acr oss a wide spectrum

10 of people interested in the ARB Enforce ment Program. Our

11 efforts paid off. The workshop was att ended by over 200

12 attendees in person, another 150 people online, and 30

13 parties testified in person, and many m ore submitted

14 written comments.

15 Since then, staff has followed up on meetings

16 with stakeholders.

17 Now I would like to summarize the comments we

18 received and the action we are taking t o address them.

19 --o0o--

20 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: Many comments

21 suggested ways to increase the transpar ency of what we do,

22 requested that we provide additional co mpliance assistance

23 activities, and sought our increased pr esence in

24 environmental justice communities.

25 A number of comments requested that we stay the270

1 course and, if anything, seek to streng then our programs

2 and laws we enforce.

3 Some comments included many of the comments you

4 have heard in the open comment period a t recent Board

5 hearings, and sought changes that we be lieve would have

6 the effect of weakening both our progra m and these laws.

7 These comments were not widely supported,

8 however, and they relate to issues some of the speakers

9 have raised in ongoing enforcement liti gation with us.

10 I've already summarized these comments for you and our

11 thoughts on them, so I'll not repeat th em here.

12 --o0o--

13 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: The main area

14 of consensus among the commenters is to increase the

15 transparency of ARB's Enforcement Progr am. Again, these

16 concerns are understandable, because th e new ARB

17 regulations will affect people who prev iously were not

18 subject to regulation by ARB and are un familiar with the

19 ways we do business. We think many of these comments have

20 merits and are implementing them in sev eral ways.

21 Increasing transparency should speed th e resolution of our

22 cases and provide savings to us and the regulated

23 community.

24 Now I would like to discuss th e specific actions.

25 --o0o--271

1 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: Specifically,

2 we will prepare an enforcement penalty guidance and will

3 place it on the Enforcement Division we b page. This

4 guidance document will list the ARB's r egulatory programs,

5 the penalties available for violating t heir requirements,

6 and the factors we take into account in determining proper

7 penalties. The document will clarify t hat we emphasize

8 emissions violations, but that we seek appropriate

9 penalties for all violations for ARB re quirements.

10 Once it is completed, the guid ance document will

11 be available on the Enforcement Divisio n web page. People

12 want to know more about the ARB's statu tory penalty

13 authority, how ARB penalty checks are p rocessed, where the

14 penalty funds the ARB collects are depo sited, and how

15 supplemental environmental projects are identified and

16 funded.

17 --o0o--

18 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: To address

19 these comments, we are placing the foll owing five things

20 on the Enforcement Division web page:

21 1. A plain language explanati on of ARB penalty

22 statutes.

23 2. Cal/EPA guidance on supple mental

24 environmental projects and self disclos ure policies.

25 3. A plain language explanati on of these Cal/EPA272

1 guidance’s.

2 4. An explanation of where AR B penalty moneys

3 are deposited and how they are processe d.

4 We think it is important to em phasize to the

5 public that the penalties paid in ARB e nforcement cases

6 are deposited in the Air Pollution Cont rol Fund and are

7 spent only after appropriation by the L egislature.

8 5. A list of potential supple mental

9 environmental projects, including instr uctions for

10 requesting that a project be added to t he list.

11 --o0o--

12 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: In conclusion,

13 we believe there is much value in this dialogue and we

14 plan to continue in the future. We fou nd it beneficial.

15 We would like to afford people the oppo rtunity to provide

16 written comments on what they heard tod ay.

17 After we review these comments , we plan to report

18 back to you and will hold an additional workshop.

19 I would like to emphasize the ARB's Enforcement

20 Program has three main goals: To foste r compliance, deter

21 violations, and create a level playing field for people

22 who have to comply with our regulations

.

23 We do our job well, but believ e there is always

24 room for improvement. These actions we are taking will

25 promote all of these goals.273

1 I would like to thank the Boar d for the

2 opportunity to provide you with an upda te. I'm available

3 to answer any questions you may have.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u very much. We

5 don't get to see you often at Board mee tings.

6 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: We're the only

7 division that doesn't do regulations.

8 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: That's r ight. Thank you.

9 That was actually very helpful. I thin k probably most

10 Board members never hear about enforcem ent. Or if they

11 do, it's only in the aftermath.

12 You do. Okay. And what do yo u hear about

13 enforcement people?

14 BOARD MEMBER BERG: I actually participate

15 sometimes on the other side of the tabl e running a

16 manufacturing company.

17 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: So you'v e been subjected to

18 enforcement. And how was the experienc e?

19 BOARD MEMBER BERG: Actually, with ARB it was

20 very good. I could give you some DTSC stories, however.

21 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, th is is a very

22 sensitive area. I don't mean to put yo u on the spot too

23 much, but I knew you could take it.

24 It really is the place where m ost people probably

25 experience regulation, and that is thos e who are regulated274

1 by us who need to both see us out there and also see that

2 they know that somebody is cheating one of their

3 competitors that they are going to hear from us and that

4 the laws are going to be enforced. So this is a highly

5 important area.

6 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: Just a q uestion of

7 information.

8 In the enforcement penalties, I think I asked

9 this once before, but do you have a lis t of the penalties,

10 the size of the penalty for the degree of the violation?

11 I've looked on like a truck we bsite and things

12 like that. If a guy drives without a p articulate filter,

13 I don't see any penalties listed.

14 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: The penalties

15 actually are specifically found in the Health and Safety

16 Code. That's part of our proposal to p ut on a

17 user-friendly list of the particular ar eas of violations

18 and the penalties that follow.

19 On the mobile source side, the y're very specific

20 to certain violations. For example, 43 151 prohibits the

21 sale of uncertified vehicles. 43016 is the fallback

22 position that covers things like small off-road engines

23 and gas cans.

24 And one of the proposals we ha d, since not

25 everybody is a lawyer -- and we resolve most of our275

1 enforcement actions without lawyers at the staff level

2 with individuals. And like I said, wha t the initial

3 proposal to do is simplify so that you can find it and

4 everybody else who's interested in find ing it can find it.

5 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: On the w ebsite I saw there

6 was a recent like $350,000 penalty for something some

7 entity did. The entity that did that, were they aware

8 there was going to be a $350,000 penalt y for what they

9 did?

10 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: I believe that

11 was one of the ones for the periodic sm oke inspection

12 program. That's a program that's been on the books for

13 well over ten years. We've done extens ive outreach in the

14 area and we conduct regular inspections . They're

15 notified -- actually in the DMV truck d rivers handbook it

16 explains certain aspects of the require ments of the

17 periodic smoke inspection program.

18 That program is essentially li ke smog check for

19 trucks. It requires fleets of more tha n two to regularly

20 inspect their vehicles that are over fo ur years old.

21 So what we would have done is conducted a regular

22 inspection probably of the fleet facili ty as we do

23 regularly. And during the audit proces s, we discovered

24 that, in fact, they didn't have the app ropriate records.

25 So what we would have done wit h that is we276

1 acquire the facts. We determine how ma ny vehicles are

2 subject to the periodic smoke inspectio n program, bring in

3 the alleged violator. We discuss the v iolation. We show

4 them that, in fact, this is one of the fallback provisions

5 in 4301 -- Health and Safety Code 43016 which provides for

6 a $500 penalty for each vehicle for eac h year they didn't

7 do the penalty.

8 So they're fully aware of the basis of the

9 penalty structure. That's probably a l ot longer

10 explanation --

11 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: But our goal is to

12 make it easier to find that.

13 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: That's our

14 first goal is to make it user friendly. Right now, I

15 think, oh, it's in the Health and Safet y Code. But I've

16 been a lawyer for a quarter of a centur y. To me, it's

17 like reading a novel unfortunately.

18 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: You need a life.

19 (Laughter)

20 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION CHIEF RYD EN: Actually, I do

21 have a life beyond that. I don't spend time reading the

22 Health and Safety Code all day.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Just che cking.

24 We've been laughing about this a bit, but

25 obviously it is an important topic. An d I do particularly277

1 want to call on John Dunlap representin g CEERT.

2 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: Chairman Nichols,

3 Will Brieger from the AG's office was g oing to say a few

4 words.

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Before y ou speak, Mr.

6 Dunlap, if we could hear from our colle agues and frequent

7 lawyer in these matters from the Attorn ey General's

8 Office.

9 DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL BRIEGE R: Good afternoon,

10 Chairman Nichols and Board members. Th is will be brief.

11 I know it's approaching 5:00.

12 My name is Will Brieger. I'm a Deputy Attorney

13 General specializing in environmental l aw enforcement.

14 And my years in law enforcement have in cluded time as a

15 district attorney. I briefly filled in at Cal/EPA as the

16 head of the Enforcement Programs, but m ost of my career

17 has been in the attorney general's offi ce working on a

18 variety of cases, hazardous waste, wate r quality, and of

19 course air quality.

20 But I'm not here to discuss sp ecific cases. We

21 were recently asked to assist in a more general review of

22 enforcement practices. And appropriate ly so, as you may

23 know, the attorney general has a duty i n the constitution

24 to ensure the uniform enforcement of la w throughout the

25 state.278

1 And as we proceed through that process, it's

2 clear that the Board's programs have a balance of

3 compliance assistance and a considerabl e deterrence

4 through enforcement.

5 There is a well-known enforcem ent maxim that

6 holds that 20 percent of the population will always comply

7 with any regulation. And then there's five percent that

8 will try to evade it. But the majority , that 75 percent

9 that remains, they'll comply also as lo ng as they know

10 that that five percent is going to get caught and

11 punished.

12 Your Enforcement Programs know that. The Board's

13 fortunate to have an unusually experien ced long tenured

14 group of savvy enforcement folks. And my office has

15 enjoyed a good collaboration with your staff reflecting,

16 I'm sure, a shared commitment to the ai r quality and in

17 recent years to climate change issues. And that

18 collaboration has gotten stronger since you hired away one

19 of our better lawyers as your Chief Cou nsel.

20 But I'm not saying that things can't be improved.

21 Every organization can streamline. Eve ryone can work a

22 bit smarter. The need is to improve on the ability to

23 educate that majority of people that wa nt to comply with

24 the law and to catch that minority that don't. And that's

25 all in four days a week, most weeks. T hat can be done.279

1 ARB's strength has always been its use of

2 science, experience, and public input t o improve the air.

3 And likewise your enforcement programs draw on those

4 resources. The Enforcement Programs lo ok at science, if

5 you will, in the form of research about what works in

6 enforcement. They draw on their experi ence and actually

7 experience from other agencies, and of course, public

8 input. The suggestions from the Octobe r workshop have

9 obviously resonated and are being liste ned to.

10 California sets high goals for itself. And it's

11 heartwarming to see how many businesses and people share

12 in those goals. We all benefit from th e effort and the

13 ingenuity and frankly the real dollars that Californians

14 spend to keep our skies and our lungs c lear.

15 Nobody wants those efforts to fail, and nobody

16 wants those investments to be undercut by laggards or

17 cheaters. So the attorney general's of fice is happy and

18 looks forward to a continued collaborat ion that's aimed at

19 fair and effective law enforcement.

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u. Thank you very

21 much. So are we your favorite client?

22 DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL BRIEGE R: Absolutely.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u. I just had to

24 ask anyway.

25 I appreciate that. And apprec iate your coming280

1 over. Obviously, we depend on you not only for your

2 ability to take cases when we need to t ake them to court,

3 but also for the feedback.

4 And I had an opportunity to ta ke a look at some

5 of the information that you provided in terms of an

6 overview, and it was really very helpfu l. I appreciate

7 all the work that the attorney general' s office has put

8 into this.

9 Mr. Dunlap.

10 MR. DUNLAP: Good afternoon, M adam Chair and

11 members. It's a pleasure to be with yo u.

12 I'm not representing the lagga rds or the

13 scofflaws today, I want you to know.

14 The CEERT Coalition is a 20-tr ade associations

15 strong coalition from a diverse group o f business sectors.

16 Some of them as Mr. Ryden pointed out i n his remarks are

17 in tune savvy with being regulated. Ot hers are new, and

18 some are facing pending compliance date s and the like.

19 And there is some concern, and that's why you

20 heard from various members of this coal ition -- I think

21 four times in the last seven months of Board meetings.

22 This continues to be a priority for the m. They're

23 interested in some reform. They want t o see transparency,

24 predictability. We appreciate the over view that was

25 provided by Jim and Mr. Brieger. We su pport the need for281

1 clarity and for consistency and to ensu re there's level

2 playing fields.

3 One of the things I intended t o say -- I had some

4 prepared remarks. I think I'll stray f rom them in the

5 short time I have and speak to perhaps a broader issue

6 that might bring home why we think this is so important.

7 The Air Resources Board has en joyed unprecedented

8 public support and great cooperation ov er the past four

9 decades it's existed by setting tough, fair-minded, but

10 predictable regulatory goals. And you' ve noticed

11 particularly these days -- and we heard Madam Chair in

12 some of the commentary you offered in r esponse to

13 industry -- because of the problems in the economy, people

14 are very sensitive to not only addition al cost potential,

15 but unknowns through regulation.

16 And in the compliance area, it 's important for

17 you to just pause a moment and reflect on it that it is

18 important to be perceived as not just f air minded and

19 consistent, but to provide resources fo r people to be able

20 to comply. And if they feel as if they 're being rough

21 handled or the penalties are too high o r they're not clear

22 to them, it is I think a real barrier t o enjoying the

23 support that the Board has long had.

24 And so we take this seriously. We're delighted

25 in some of the changes and improvements that have been282

1 promised by the staff. We appreciate t hat. We want you

2 to know that the more closely the Board pays attention to

3 these issues and asks staff to come bac k and tell them how

4 it's going, we think it will be strengt hened. Your Board

5 is hands on and engaged and we only ben efit from that.

6 A few things I must object to just briefly.

7 There was some characterization in how the staff looked at

8 some of the comments. And I just want you to know we're

9 not trying to reflect people getting aw ay with things they

10 shouldn't. But at the same time, there needs to be some

11 detailed shared relative to the content s --

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I'm goin g to give you more

13 time, because you're representing a gro up.

14 MR. DUNLAP: And there's a hal f a dozen

15 gentleman --

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Rather t han have them stand

17 up, go ahead.

18 MR. DUNLAP: I won't belabor t hat point, but I

19 want to focus on it for a moment, that if you can be as

20 transparent as possible, if you can pro vide a framework

21 that people know what they're facing an d that you can

22 allow the framework to be accessed not just on websites,

23 but there can be some detail about unit s, number of units

24 that violated rules, what the penalties were per unit, the

25 SEPS, and the SEP being a way to contri bute some fine283

1 money for some mutually agreed upon pro grams, that I think

2 people will go into that process not so much fearing it

3 and being troubled. Nobody wants to go to court. So when

4 your staff says 99 percent of them sett le, absolutely,

5 because people are motivated not to hav e legal

6 entanglements. I don't think that's ne cessarily the

7 greatest success statistic. It's peopl e are worried about

8 going into the legal process.

9 So the bottom line is your Boa rd expects quick

10 compliance, cost-effective compliance, fair treatment so

11 people can come out of the experience l ike Ms. Berg has

12 and her settlement case that she mentio ned a moment ago

13 feeling that she was treated fairly.

14 So I would encourage the Board to keep after your

15 staff a bit. They're tough. Ms. Peter came from the AG's

16 office. They have a role to play there . We think this is

17 perhaps a little bit different role and a different

18 approach most times.

19 And so please understand our i nterest and

20 involvement to try to strengthen the pr ogram. We're not

21 trying to guide it, not trying to give people that

22 shouldn't be held to the high level of compliance an out.

23 So thanks for listening. We'r e going to continue

24 to work with your staff.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.284

1 MR. DUNLAP: And we appreciate your attention.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

3 I think the comment that Mr. B rieger made about

4 the need for always to be looking for w ays to improve and

5 particularly at any given moment to see what the need is

6 and Mr. Reddens' recognition that we ar e in the process of

7 regulating people that had previously n ot had the pleasure

8 of dealing with us before and it isn't always something

9 people look forward to. So, you know, it's like visiting

10 the dentist I suppose.

11 MR. DUNLAP: But the idea of h aving the website

12 material and the like will be very help ful. And I think

13 you would want people to be able to rep resent themselves

14 whenever possible to come in and work w ith the staff and a

15 lot of them are inexperienced in that a rea.

16 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, ac tually, that's one

17 of the reasons -- as I know you're very familiar with our

18 small business Ombudsman because she wo rked with you at

19 the South Coast District. And the dist rict had a

20 reputation also that was somewhat scary . And I think part

21 of the work that you did and that she d id there was to try

22 to help small businesses understand wha t they needed to do

23 and figure out how to make the process less scary. And

24 that was very important work.

25 MR. DUNLAP: And I think the i dea that somebody285

1 suggested that maybe a program be shift ed from one

2 operation to another is more about opti cs than a failure

3 in people. Nobody is suggesting the pr ogram is failing,

4 but there has been some examples from c lients I've had and

5 industry groups where they're reluctant to share

6 information perhaps or to participate w hen they know it's

7 being headed by folks from compliance. No matter how

8 public relations schooled they may be, they're concerned

9 about that.

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I think there is a

11 difference between training, which I th ink the enforcement

12 does superlative job of from everything I've seen, and

13 this issue of sort of general complianc e assistance or

14 counseling. And those are areas which are maybe sometimes

15 a little bit of a gray area. But I agr ee with you that a

16 different tone is sometimes called for.

17 MR. DUNLAP: And Mr. Goldstene made a quick call

18 to me and said there are a lot of thing s that are going to

19 be explained over the next few months a nd we appreciate

20 that. And we'll be pleased to continue to be as positive

21 as we can in the process.

22 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Great. Thank you very

23 much. And you set something useful in the motion. It was

24 already -- I'd like to claim credit for having started the

25 process, but you definitely accelerated it and pushed it286

1 up a notch. So thank you.

2 Do we have anything further on this topic?

3 EXECUTIVE OFFICER GOLDSTENE: No.

4 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: We do ha ve four people who

5 have discovered the benefits in coming in the open comment

6 period to say whatever they feel like s aying, and that's

7 what it's for. So we will close off th e Enforcement

8 Program item and take the public commen t period now.

9 We have four people: Skip Bro wn, Katherine

10 Reheis-Boyd, Joseph Partranski, and Bet ty Plowman. So

11 we'll start with Mr. Brown.

12 MR. BROWN: Good afternoon. T hank you for this

13 opportunity.

14 My name is Skip Brown with Del ta Construction

15 Company.

16 In December, CARB had quite a broad side against

17 its credibility due to the Tran scandal . And I'd like to

18 talk about the fact that you possibly h ave some other

19 credibility issues. I'd like to bring them up at this

20 time.

21 The peer reviewers still stood behind the report,

22 but unfortunately six out of the nine p eer reviewers have

23 compromised positions with CARB. Some of them were the

24 authors themselves. You know, what's u p with that? We're

25 having the authors themselves doing the peer review group.287

1 I don't think that's acceptable.

2 John Froins, Chair of the SCP, has been an

3 indirect recipient of funds that came f rom the State of

4 California and the federal EPA. And as Chair of the SRP,

5 who basically was a promoter of this ba ck when it was

6 decided in 1998, 1999 to being a recipi ent of funds after

7 the fact, I think that -- certainly the re's the appearance

8 of impropriety.

9 Gary Friedman was appointed as the epidemiologist

10 in 1988 and again in 1991, but has not -- there's been no

11 appointment since then. Since what we' re doing is talking

12 about epidemiological studies, I would think that the

13 epidemiologist would be the key person to have on board.

14 And quite obvious I guess he's been ret ained in

15 perpetuity.

16 The studies used by CARB for d oing this are

17 nationwide. There are no California-sp ecific studies.

18 But California shows no premature death on six independent

19 studies, all discounted by CARB. What' s up with that?

20 California is a fourth healthi est state in the

21 nation on age-adjusted death. So I don 't understand

22 what's going on there.

23 No other state or county has d eclared or county

24 has declared diesel particulate matter to be attacked, but

25 California has that.288

1 Asthma rates are up 75 percent . You're correct

2 about that. Between 1980 and 1996 in t he children are up

3 almost 100 percent. But the air qualit y PM is down -- 2.5

4 is down 58 percent. In Riverside/L.A., one-hour ozone

5 exceeded 150 days in the 70s, down 25 d ays currently.

6 Here's a chart of the asthma g oing up and the air

7 quality improving by all the particulat e matter and

8 everything going down. So we're blamin g all this on

9 particulate matter.

10 CARB issued factoids after the December meeting I

11 guess to help support the premise that the studies are

12 good. Here's a list of their factoids. One of them says

13 each year in California diesel PM contr ibutes up to 24,000

14 premature deaths. That's up from 3500 on the Tran report.

15 So now we're up to 24,000 premature dea ths and thousands

16 of hospital emissions for asthma attack s and other

17 respiratory symptoms.

18 CHAIRMAN NICHOLS: Your time i s up. I'm sorry if

19 you have a written presentation, you ca n submit it.

20 MR. BROWN: I didn't have time to do the written

21 presentation. I have very serious busi ness problems

22 trying to survive in today's economy.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I unders tand, but you

24 obviously had time to do a lot of analy sis. I would

25 invite you to come to our symposium on diesel, which is289

1 being scheduled for a full day in Febru ary --

2 RESEARCH DIVISION CHIEF CROES: February 26th.

3 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: And many of the people

4 whose work you agree with and as well a s those whose work

5 you do not agree with and who you are h ere attacking will

6 be there. So please feel invited to co me on February

7 26th.

8 MR. BROWN: Thank you very muc h. Will the

9 symposium offer a person more than thre e minutes?

10 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Yes. Fo r the speakers.

11 But the speakers are all going to be sc ientists. But

12 they're going to be scientists who agre e with you as well

13 as scientists who don't agree with you. It's not just a

14 group of one-sided people or those who are on the take or

15 anything else.

16 MR. BROWN: That's excellent. I would like you

17 to look up the definition of factoids. I think you'll

18 find it entertaining. And my Latin off ering for the day

19 is illegitimus non carborundum.

20 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: I agree with you on that

21 one.

22 Catherine.

23 MS. REHEIS-BOYD: Good afterno on, Chairman

24 Nichols, members of the Board.

25 I'm Catherine Reheis-Boyd, Pre sident of Western290

1 States Petroleum Association.

2 I appreciate being able to tal k with you today

3 under public comment on an extremely im portant regulation,

4 the low-carbon fuel standard. I had ho ped to do that

5 under the agenda item. We all know tha t was pulled.

6 It's going here under public c omment. The staff

7 is writing an update. I'm glad to hear that, because it's

8 important. And it's equally important that the Board

9 begin engaging with the stakeholders li ke us to hear the

10 concerns that we continue to have.

11 They are legitimate concerns. They are around

12 compliance, which you are very -- obvio usly we just got

13 done with a whole discussion on enforce ment. But we have

14 concerns that we want to begin that con versation now

15 rather than later. We hope that maybe the next Board

16 meeting we can agendize this and use th e staff report as a

17 basis for that beginning conversation l ike we just did in

18 cap and trade.

19 We're working every day with y our staff on the

20 gaps that still remain, and again they are significant.

21 The questions remaining are significant . We just had a

22 workshop that demonstrated the challeng es that are real

23 and they're present and they're today. They're not in

24 May. They're not in June. They're not next year.

25 They're now.291

1 And we believe that obviously there's a lot of

2 implementation details that you'll be i nterested in. We

3 are happy to continue engaging the staf f, but some of

4 those are short term. You have an advi sory counsel that's

5 being set up to deal with our long-term concerns and we'll

6 be engaged in that process. Those are around technology

7 and vehicles and delivery systems that aren't invented yet

8 and not widely available. But you have a process for

9 that.

10 On the short-term issues, espe cially on the

11 reporting side, they're significant. T his is a reporting

12 year. It is a compliance reporting yea r. We appreciate

13 the release of the CARB's advisory, Mr. Goldstene,

14 Ms. Ellen did a great job in at least g etting us some

15 comfort in an advisory, give an extende d period of May of

16 July. However, talking to the Board in June and July is

17 not adequate time. We need to engage n ow. We would like

18 to continue that conversation. We beli eve we can provide

19 you some ideas to allow some other enfo rcement protections

20 during this year of continued dialogue on a lot of these

21 implementation issues that are still on the table. So we

22 are looking forward to that.

23 We are looking forward to the Low Carbon Advisory

24 Committee getting kicked off this year. And we are

25 thankful that the Board sees that as an opportunity to292

1 deal with fuel adequacy in vehicles and technology that

2 has to go around this regulation for th e long term.

3 And then finally, as the hope of the Board

4 obviously is that this technology and a vailability of

5 non-petroleum liquid-based transportati on fuels will come

6 over time, we don't feel it's our compa ny's

7 responsibilities to be held accountable for the vehicles

8 and the combustion fuels technologies t hat are outside our

9 business control. And that being to ma ke low-carbon

10 intensive fuel. So we'd like to talk a bout these issues.

11 Our goal is to ensure we can p rovide adequate,

12 reliable, affordable fuels while we wor k with you on your

13 goals to a transition to a different lo w-carbon economy.

14 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u for the comment.

15 In terms of follow up, I reali ze that what you

16 want is attention from the Board. I me an, that's why

17 you're here. Board time is scarce, as you snow. The

18 members of this Board are hard-working people who have

19 other lives. And they come from distan ces away, and they

20 tend to want to focus on things that th ey can take action

21 on. It's really hard to get people to sit and just

22 listen, you know, to a presentation unl ess there's

23 something that they can actually be eng aged in.

24 And so I think once the report is here, we should

25 talk about what's the most effective wa y to get you an293

1 open airing that you are seeking perhap s without having to

2 have an entire Board meeting devoted to that topic.

3 Perhaps there is a way that we can acco mplish your goals.

4 We've had individual Board members in t he past who have

5 been willing to spend extra time to wor k on an issue or

6 even subcommittees on the Board. I've been given some

7 thought how to work on those issue. I' m not making a

8 proposal right now but just suggesting we will get back to

9 you on this.

10 MS. REHEIS-BOYD: I really app reciate that

11 consideration. I thank you very much.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

13 Joseph Partransky from Healthy Ports and Ships.

14 You've been with us all day, sir.

15 MR. PARTRANSKY: Yes, I'm Joe Partransky, and I'm

16 from the bay area. And I wrote a thesi s back in '64 on

17 the politics technology of on-board shi p automation. And

18 I'm concerned with health ports and hea lthy ships

19 currently.

20 Turns out that my understandin g is that the

21 International Maritime Organization in March will be

22 dealing with a treaty which will have s ome impact on what

23 appears to be one of the major causes o f Riverside's smog.

24 And that is ship diesel fuel being burn ed throughout the

25 whole world. Currently, the expectatio n by the year 2020294

1 it will double. If it's not controlled by 2045, it will

2 double again.

3 Apparently, the diesel fuel bu rned in the ocean,

4 which is a concern that I think you sho uld have as well as

5 I tried to find out if you had a subcom mittee dealing with

6 it or what have you -- all I found so f ar is Lisa Williams

7 is one of your staff person who deals w ith harbors

8 community monitoring project, but there is no apparent

9 subcommittee or group that maybe you ca n direct me to that

10 is involved with the issues of the ship s, not only within

11 the 20 miles, but within the 300 miles, within the whole

12 situation, because you are being effect ed by it. We are

13 being effected by it, not just in the p orts.

14 The other question I have -- i f you can provide

15 some help on that, I would appreciate t hat.

16 The other one is that in your area of outreach to

17 educational communities, may I suggest that every single

18 one of the district air quality managem ent groups, can

19 they list on a very prominent place you r website, that you

20 exist. It's not in the one that we hav e. And also list

21 the agendas when they're available, so everybody in the

22 state knows that your agenda is availab le. And they

23 should list besides the agendas that yo u actually have a

24 www.calspan.org repeat of this meeting so the people can

25 have access to that.295

1 Every single one of the region al groups should

2 act cooperatively, collaboratively, and get information

3 out to the public, rather than us tryin g to find it, what

4 have you.

5 From the standpoint of a best practices in the

6 whole area of the California Air Qualit y Management Act

7 thresholds for significance, which will be done in our

8 area, the so-called measurements from t he standpoint of

9 beyond greenhouse gases, we need to hav e involvement.

10 Thank you.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Your tim e is up, sir. But

12 thank you for coming and thank you for your comments.

13 Our final open comment period witness, Betty

14 Plowman. We have our letter, so you do n't need to read

15 the letter. If you would just summariz e it, that'd be

16 great.

17 MS. PLOWMAN: Yes. Thank you, Chairman Nichols.

18 And I did like your comments s everal moments ago

19 that the Board wants to take action. A nd I hope with this

20 letter that I presented they will take action, because

21 that's what we're asking for.

22 I have presented to each of yo u copies of letters

23 which were sent to you U.C. president M ark Yudof and U.C.

24 Professor Michael Jerrett requesting th e California

25 specific relationship between PM2.5 and premature deaths.296

1 These letters were sent both by regular and electronic

2 mail on January 6th, 2010, as well as n umerous telephone

3 calls. And I sadly report today that t here has been no

4 response.

5 There is serious disagreement among the

6 scientific community regarding the rela tionship between PM

7 2.5 and premature deaths. Evidence fro m six independent

8 sources indicate there's no relationshi p. Three of these

9 sources originate from the 2000, 2009 h ealth effects

10 institute reports that Dr. Jerrett co-a uthored.

11 Clarification of the California-specifi c evidence from

12 these sources would resolve this issue. And Dr. Jerrett

13 is the California scientist in the best position to

14 clarify these results.

15 A detailed request was made to Dr. Jerrett on

16 July 11, 2008, and this request was rep eated and expanded

17 upon in December 10th, 2008, public com ment card. Dr.

18 Jerrett has failed to respond to these requests, in spite

19 of the fact that the underlining data u sed in his research

20 for Health Effects Institute is subject minimally to the

21 disclosure requirements of the federal data access.

22 Because of the lack of respons e from Dr. Jerrett,

23 the Hein Tran issue, as well as the cat astrophic

24 consequences this rule is having on Cal ifornia businesses,

25 we urge you to assist us in our endeavo r to bring297

1 transparency to the science used that e nacted this rule.

2 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Thank yo u.

3 MS. PLOWMAN: Can I give the a ttorney general's

4 staff a copy also?

5 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: If he's willing to receive

6 it. I'm sure he would be happy to. Th ank you.

7 Is there anybody prepared to c omment at all on

8 the status of this matter?

9 RESEARCH DIVISION CHIEF CROES: Good afternoon.

10 Actually, Michael Jerrett from USC has published

11 an analysis of Los Angeles which shows a very strong

12 relationship between PM2.5 exposure and premature death.

13 That work was published in 2005. It's in the open peer

14 reviewed literature. And I'll make sur e that's provided

15 to the person giving the testimony.

16 He does have a project with us to do an analysis

17 for all of California, not just Los Ang eles. That's

18 ongoing. He's using data from the Amer ican Cancer

19 Society. They're the ones that hold th at data, and it's

20 to protect the individuals that partici pate in the study.

21 It's really not available, something Mi chael Jerrett

22 cannot give to anyone on the outside. And if people

23 require that data, they should contact the American Cancer

24 Society directly.

25 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: My recol lection, going way298

1 back to the time when we first set the fine particle

2 standard at EPA in 2007, was there was demands on the part

3 of other groups -- outside groups who w anted American

4 Cancer Society data, that ACS refused t o release because

5 of privacy type issues. And at the end of the day, there

6 was some process that was worked out th rough the Health

7 Effects Institute where they actually d id find a way to

8 get some additional people to do some - - try to rerun the

9 studies that had been done. Is that wh at we're talking

10 about here?

11 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: If I mig ht interject a bit.

12 The Health Effects Institute actually f unded re-analysis

13 of some of the initial studies with reg ard to PM2.5 and

14 mortality that were done by Harvard inv estigators. Dr.

15 Jerrett was one of the group that was p art of the

16 re-analysis.

17 So first of all, I wanted to s ay Michael Jerrett

18 is a colleague of mine at U.C. Berkeley . If that makes me

19 have conflict of interest in these stat ements, so be it.

20 But I can state that he's a sc ientist of great

21 integrity and believes in transparency of data. That's an

22 integral part of the scientist process. But I don't think

23 he believes in giving data without the permission of the

24 American Cancer Society, which I can te ll you guards their

25 data very carefully.299

1 On the basis of a publication that Dr. Jerrett

2 had earlier -- actually, in 2009, I wan ted to follow up

3 with him and do a secondary analysis an d we're still

4 waiting to get approval from the Americ an Cancer Society

5 to do that.

6 And so I do think the data wil l eventually be

7 available. But it's the American Cance r Society that has

8 to be approached. And the Health Effec ts Institute may be

9 able to help convince the American Canc er Society to

10 release the data, but the American Canc er Society is very

11 difficult with regard to other investig ators getting

12 access to their data. I'm a case in po int in that regard.

13 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Okay.

14 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: It's cur ious to me why the

15 American Cancer Society wouldn't releas e that. But in

16 your redoing the methodology report, ar e you not asking

17 for that information? I mean, that see ms like it's almost

18 crucial to do what you need to do.

19 RESEARCH DIVISION CHIEF CROES: For our

20 re-assessment of the relationship betwe en PM 2.5 and

21 health effects, we're relying on alread y published peer

22 reviewed literature, which in some of t hose studies do

23 rely on the American Cancer Society dat a. That data has

24 been re-analyzed by an independent grou p, the University

25 of Ottawa, I believe. So those studies have been300

1 reproduced.

2 The raw data that I think the testifier was

3 asking for includes information on indi viduals, where they

4 live, how old they are, diet, race, and so forth. And

5 that's just not data that the American Cancer Society can

6 share under the guidelines of acquiring the data in the

7 first place.

8 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You can wash the pertinent

9 information out.

10 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: The data could be

11 de-identified and then re-analyzed, I a gree.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: And that 's what happened.

13 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: I'm in f avor of having the

14 data be made available. I'm just sayin g that we don't

15 have the power to automatically make it available.

16 I do think at the February 26t h symposium that

17 Dr. Jerrett will be there. And Dr. Ens trom who's been

18 very concerned about getting those data will also be

19 present, and perhaps we can get to some kind of way to

20 move forward at that meeting.

21 RESEARCH DIVISION CHIEF CROES: Also the Health

22 Effects Institute will be there, which funded the

23 re-analysis, as well as Dan Cruski, who 's the Canadian

24 investigator that did the re-analysis, will be there.

25 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: That dat a that you are301

1 getting, is it going to be California-s pecific or is it

2 just including the whole country and us ing the whole

3 country's data to kind of make a Califo rnia --

4 RESEARCH DIVISION CHIEF CROES: What we're

5 relying on primarily is the U.S. EPA in tegrated science

6 assessment which did look at the whole country. There

7 have been some California-specific stud ies which show a

8 whole range of results, and those will be discussed at the

9 symposium on the 26th.

10 BOARD MEMBER TELLES: I'm not trying to be the

11 devil's advocate, but I think it would be important to

12 know if there is a difference because o f the different

13 type of particulate matter that's in Ca lifornia versus in

14 New York or Chicago or whatever. I mea n, to me it's kind

15 of a scientific question that should be asked.

16 If the data is out there to ge t some information

17 in this regard, I think it would be ver y helpful for not

18 just us but the whole scientific commun ity. Because one

19 of the questions I've always asked sinc e I've been

20 involved in it is, is there a differenc e between the

21 particles between the different regions of the country.

22 In reviewing the cardiovascular literat ure, there's quite

23 a bit of difference when they talk abou t the composition

24 of these particles in Boston versus Los Angeles. A lot of

25 the cardiovascular literature comes out of Boston, which302

1 is high in metals and whatever they do out there versus

2 what you see in the PM composition in L os Angeles.

3 To me, it's always been kind o f a scientific

4 inquiry just kind of an interesting thi ng. Is there a

5 biological difference in what's actuall y happening.

6 RESEARCH DIVISION CHIEF CROES: That's a good

7 question. Certainly the transportation sources that

8 dominate the PM 2.5 are the same, but t here are stationary

9 source differences. Coal combustion in the east versus

10 natural gas here.

11 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Air qual ity, moisture

12 content of air, I mean, yes. Of course . This is a

13 flashback to 1996 at least as far as I' m concerned.

14 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: And corr ect me if I'm

15 wrong, Bart, but the current CARB suppo rt for Dr.

16 Jerrett's is to specifically look at th e California

17 component of the American Cancer Societ y data.

18 RESEARCH DIVISION CHIEF CROES: That's correct.

19 BOARD MEMBER BALMES: So I thi nk the Dr. Jerrett

20 will be at the February 26th symposium and it's fair game

21 for people to ask him what that analysi s shows, so far

22 though. I know it's not completed at t his point.

23 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: And I di dn't mean my

24 comment to suggest that we shouldn't be pursuing it. I

25 think we should be pursuing it. Absolu tely. Okay.303

1 If that is the conclusion -- o h, sorry. Mayor

2 Loveridge.

3 BOARD MEMBER LOVERIDGE: I mea n, obviously public

4 policy in this area has to be based on best science. But

5 I think the issue here is not so much s cience but the

6 choices we make in the public policy to implement. And so

7 even if we had the best science agreein g, I don't think

8 people whose names are on the list woul d be there if it

9 wasn't for the kind of impact public po licy has on their

10 own business. It's not a scientific co ntroversy as much

11 as a translation of science into public policy.

12 CHAIRPERSON NICHOLS: Well, ye ah. Your comment

13 is relevant in this sense that the peop le who are

14 attacking the mortality studies may thi nk that if there

15 were no mortality studies or no numbers about mortality

16 that would put an end to the obligation to regulate.

17 And, unfortunately, as we've d iscussed a few

18 times, but probably need to remind peop le, the regulations

19 that we have on diesels are based on ai r quality standards

20 that are federal air quality standards that we're required

21 to meet. So even if there was zero mor tality, if there is

22 an air quality standard based on any pu blic health issue,

23 we still have to come up with regulatio ns to meet it.

24 So your quest is a perfectly a cceptable one, and

25 it's not only within your rights, it's something you feel304

1 strongly about and you should. But it isn't going to --

2 it's a sort of a diversion in a way fro m the issue that

3 you presumably as a business person are the most focused

4 on. That's a fair point. Thank you.

5 Hearing nothing more, we will stand adjourned

6 then. Thank you, everybody. See you n ext month.

7 (Thereupon the California Air Resources Board

8 adjourned at 5:21 p.m.)

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25305

1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORT ER

2 I, TIFFANY C. KRAFT, a Certifi ed Shorthand

3 Reporter of the State of California, an d Registered

4 Professional Reporter, do hereby certif y:

5 That I am a disinterested pers on herein; that the

6 foregoing hearing was reported in short hand by me,

7 Tiffany C. Kraft, a Certified Shorthand Reporter of the

8 State of California, and thereafter tra nscribed into

9 typewriting.

10 I further certify that I am no t of counsel or

11 attorney for any of the parties to said hearing nor in any

12 way interested in the outcome of said h earing.

13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have her eunto set my hand

14 this 17th day of February, 2010.

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22 TIFFANY C. K RAFT, CSR, RPR

23 Certified Sh orthand Reporter

24 License No. 12277

25