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S. HRG. 112–402 

EMPOWERING AND PROTECTING 

SERVICEMEMBERS, VETERANS, AND THEIR FAMILIES IN THE CONSUMER FINANCIAL MARKETPLACE 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

ON 

EXAMINING THE FINANCIAL PROTECTION OF SERVICEMEMBERS, 

VETERANS, AND THEIR FAMILIES 

NOVEMBER 3, 2011 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs 

( 

Available at: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS 

TIM JOHNSON, South Dakota, Chairman 

JACK REED, Rhode Island 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

SHERROD BROWN, Ohio 

JON TESTER, Montana 

HERB KOHL, Wisconsin 

MARK R. WARNER, Virginia 

JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon 

MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado 

KAY HAGAN, North Carolina 

RICHARD C. SHELBY, Alabama 

MIKE CRAPO, Idaho 

BOB CORKER, Tennessee 

JIM DEMINT, South Carolina 

DAVID VITTER, Louisiana 

MIKE JOHANNS, Nebraska 

PATRICK J. TOOMEY, Pennsylvania 

MARK KIRK, Illinois 

JERRY MORAN, Kansas 

ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi 

DWIGHT FETTIG, Staff Director 

WILLIAM D. DUHNKE, Republican Staff Director 

CHARLES YI, Chief Counsel 

CATHERINE GALICIA, Senior Counsel 

WILLIAM FIELDS, Legislative Assistant 

ANDREW OLMEM, Republican Chief Counsel 

BETH ZORC, Republican Counsel 

DAWN RATLIFF, Chief Clerk 

SHELVIN SIMMONS, IT Director 

JIM CROWELL, Editor 

(II)

C O N T E N T S 

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2011 

Page 

Opening statement of Chairman Johnson ............................................................. 1 

Opening statements, comments, or prepared statements of: 

Senator Shelby .................................................................................................. 2 

Senator Tester .................................................................................................. 4 

Senator Kirk ..................................................................................................... 4 

Senator Akaka .................................................................................................. 4 

Senator Brown .................................................................................................. 5 

Senator Hagan .................................................................................................. 5 

Senator Bennet 

Prepared statement ................................................................................... 30 

WITNESSES 

Hollister K. Petraeus, Assistant Director, Office of Servicemember Affairs, 

Consumer Financial Protection Bureau ............................................................. 6 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 30 

Bonnie Spain, Executive Director/Chief Executive Officer, Rushmore Consumer Credit Resource Center ............................................................................ 8 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 33 

Admiral Charles S. (Steve) Abbot, U.S. Navy (Ret.), President, Navy-Marine 

Corps Relief Society ............................................................................................. 10 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 39 

Major General Kevin Bergner, U.S. Army (Ret.), Executive Vice President 

and Chief Administrative Officer, United Services Automobile Association ... 12 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 40 

Frank Pollack, President and Chief Executive Officer, Pentagon Federal Credit Union ................................................................................................................. 14 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 44 

(III)

(1) 

EMPOWERING AND PROTECTING 

SERVICEMEMBERS, VETERANS, AND THEIR 

FAMILIES IN THE CONSUMER FINANCIAL 

MARKETPLACE 

THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 3, 2011 

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met at 10:32 a.m., in room SD–538, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Tim Johnson, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN TIM JOHNSON 

Chairman JOHNSON. Good morning. I would like to call this hearing to order. 

Earlier this week, it was reported that 10 executives at Fannie 

Mae and Freddie Mac were scheduled to receive bonuses totaling 

more than $12 million. Given the current economic times and continued challenges in the housing market, I want to assure my colleagues that I plan to call Acting FHFA Director Ed DeMarco before the Committee as soon as possible. The details are still being 

worked out, and my staff will be in touch with your staff. 

As the conservator of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, FHFA under 

Mr. DeMarco’s leadership was responsible for approving the compensation and maintaining adequate internal controls to oversee 

the day-to-day operations at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This 

Committee, the Congress, and taxpayers need to be confident that 

those controls are in place and that the conservator is upholding 

its responsibilities. 

As we approach Veterans Day and we prepare to welcome home 

the last American troops from Iraq later this year, it is important 

for us to understand the unique consumer financial challenges 

members of the military, veterans, and their families face. I take 

special interest in this matter, not only as the father of a soldier, 

but also as a Senator from a State that has over 72,000 veterans 

and more than 3,500 military personnel at Ellsworth Air Force 

Base. 

At today’s hearing, we will examine how young enlisted personnel, officers, veterans, and military families manage their financial needs, whether through mainstream financial products or products marketed to the military community. We will also learn about 

the important role financial readiness plays in mission readiness. 

And we will look at some of the tools and protections available to 

2 

help military consumers navigate the complex consumer financial 

marketplace. 

It is important to remember how military consumers differ from 

the average consumer. This population is predominantly young and 

enters the military with little financial education. The military lifestyle requires frequent relocations, forcing spouses to find new employment and families to sell their homes if they have chosen to 

live off base. Their mobile lifestyle also means they need banking 

services that are accessible throughout the country and the world. 

When a servicemember deploys, he or she must be certain family 

members have appropriate access to handle bills and financial 

needs in their absence. 

It was with those needs in mind that Congress created the Office 

of Servicemember Affairs at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. I am pleased to welcome the first head of that office, Assistant Director Holly Petraeus. As a military daughter, wife, and 

mother, Mrs. Petraeus is very qualified to lead this office, which 

will educate and empower members of the military and their families to make the best financial decisions for themselves. As importantly, once the CFPB has a Director in place, the agency will finally be able to monitor the nonbank financial institutions which 

are often at the heart of the military community’s financial hardships. 

I would also like to welcome Bonnie Spain from my home State 

of South Dakota. Bonnie runs the Rushmore Consumer Credit Resource Center in Rapid City. Bonnie will explain some of the work 

she does and assistance she provides to airmen and their families 

stationed at Ellsworth and to members of the National Guard. 

Admiral Steve Abbot, thank you very much for your service to 

our country and for being part of today’s hearing. We look forward 

to your testimony on the importance of financial readiness and the 

work of the Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society. 

We are also joined by Retired Major General Kevin Bergner of 

USAA and Mr. Frank Pollack from the Pentagon Federal Credit 

Union. General Bergner, thank you for your service to our country. 

Both USAA and the Pentagon Federal Credit Union serve a large 

number of military consumers, and they do an outstanding job of 

meeting that community’s needs. Thanks to both of you for being 

a part of today’s hearing. 

In closing, I would like to recognize our veterans and the thousands of military personnel who continue to serve in harm’s way 

in defense of our country. I am grateful for their service. Throughout my time in Congress, it has been my highest priority to assist 

our servicemembers and veterans. As Chairman of the Senate Military Construction and VA Appropriations Subcommittee and the 

Senate Banking Committee, I continue to work to ensure 

servicemembers and veterans have the resources they need and 

protections they deserve. I look forward to today’s testimony. 

Now I turn to Ranking Member Shelby for his statement. 

STATEMENT OF SENATOR RICHARD C. SHELBY 

Senator SHELBY. Mr. Chairman, thank you. Thank you for calling this hearing. 

3 

First, I want to respond to your statement that you are going to 

call up the head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency—I think 

that is a good idea—regarding high salaries and so forth, these salaries at Freddie and Fannie. But I would also ask that you bring 

up the Treasury because the Federal Housing Finance Agency has 

to consult with Treasury on this, and we need them both here to 

have a proper and thorough hearing. So I would hope you would 

do that at the same time. And if you do that, I think we will have 

a good and thorough—— 

Chairman JOHNSON. I will take that into consideration. 

Senator SHELBY. Sure. I do not know how you can have a hearing, a good hearing, without doing both. But, anyway, I have got 

an opening statement here, Mr. Chairman, that I would like to 

give. 

The issue of consumer protection for military servicemembers 

has long been a priority for this Committee. During the 109th Congress, while I was Chairman of the Committee, the Committee examined reports of predatory lending practices aimed at members of 

the armed forces and their families. This examination identified a 

series of problematic tactics used to sell financial products to military personnel. It also identified regulatory gaps and the lack of coordination among financial regulators in handling military consumer protection issues. 

Based on the investigation by the Committee, the Committee ultimately passed the Military Personnel Financial Service Protection 

Act of 2006. This law protects members of the armed forces from 

certain unscrupulous sales practices regarding the sale of insurance and financial and investment products. It also improved the 

ability of our regulators to enforce our consumer protection laws 

with respect to the military. 

Servicemembers and their families have unique needs with respect to their use of financial services due to the special circumstances caused by their military service. For example, military 

personnel move regularly, which can make purchasing a home a 

very risky endeavor. In addition, military personnel are often very 

young and away from home for the first time. They often have to 

make important financial decisions without being able to consult 

with family or with trusted advisers. 

Congress and the States have sought to address these problems 

through a variety of legislative and regulatory initiatives. As a result, at least nine Federal regulators and State regulators in all 50 

States currently have varying levels of regulatory, supervisory, and 

enforcement powers in this area. At the Federal level, this includes 

the Department of Defense, the FTC, the Federal Reserve Board, 

the SEC, the OCC, the FDIC, the Department of Education, the 

Department of Justice, and most recently the Bureau for Consumer 

Financial Protection. 

Accordingly, I do not believe there is any shortage of regulators. 

The real challenge is making sure that regulation keeps up with 

changes in technology and changes in the marketplace. In particular, I would like to hear today whether new forms of lending 

to our military, such as online lending, present any new difficulties 

for enforcing consumer protections for military personnel. I would 

also like to know whether more can be done to ensure that our 

4 

military personnel and their families receive the information they 

need to exercise all of their rights available to them under Federal 

laws, such as the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act, or SCRA. 

Recently, several banks have settled claims under the 

Servicemembers Civil Relief Act because they currently foreclosed 

on members of the military while they were on active duty. In my 

view, that is the sort of problem no military member should have 

to worry about while they are fighting overseas. 

Mr. Chairman, while often there appears to be very little upon 

which our respective sides can agree, there is complete agreement, 

I think, on our joint commitment to supporting our men and our 

women in uniform. I look forward to hearing from you today. I believe this could be a constructive hearing. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Senator Shelby. 

Are there any other Members who wish to make a brief opening 

statement? Senator Tester. 

STATEMENT OF SENATOR JON TESTER 

Senator TESTER. I will get to my opening statement when we get 

into the questions. I want to thank you all for being here, especially you, Holly, but specifically I want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the hearing that you announced on the FHFA. I think ultimately in the end we need to have the people here so we can get 

to the bottom of why those bonuses were given out and get some 

accountability. But I appreciate your and your staff’s scheduling of 

that hearing. I think it is critically important. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Anybody else? 

STATEMENT OF SENATOR MARK KIRK 

Senator KIRK. Mr. Chairman, I just want to also put in a request. I think we are in a very dynamic situation with regard to 

U.S. exposure to the European banking system. I think you should 

probably call for an update on that because I am concerned that 

we may see a fairly bleak prospect of the current European Stabilization Facility meeting its goals. I am concerned about reports 

that U.S. bank exposure now is considerably more than it was, and 

activity and transparency led by this Committee I think would help 

U.S. markets. 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Chairman? 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Akaka. 

STATEMENT OF SENATOR DANIEL A. AKAKA 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to add my 

welcome to our witnesses today. I look forward to their testimony 

on a matter that many of us in the Senate are deeply concerned 

about: making sure that our servicemembers and veterans are economically empowered to make the best financial decisions possible. 

For years, my colleagues here on the Banking Committee have 

heard me talk about financial literacy and economic empowerment, 

and my colleagues on the Armed Services and Veterans’ Affairs 

Committees know that I am concerned about the unique challenges 

confronting military families and our veterans. Prolonged deployments and more frequent relocations create unique banking and 

budgeting challenges. Our veterans come home from war only to 

5 

face the highest unemployment rates in the Nation. And meanwhile our Guard and Reserve forces are feeling the financial impact 

of sustained active service. It is clear our men and women in uniform now more than ever need to be educated in financial matters 

both before and after they complete their service to our country. 

Chairman Johnson, thank you very much for convening this 

hearing on such an important topic. For many of our military families, financial education and protection is tied to their readiness. 

And servicemembers, veterans, and their families have sacrificed 

for us. Now it is our turn to do all we can to help them return. 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. 

Senator BROWN. Mr. Chairman? 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Brown. 

STATEMENT OF SENATOR SHERROD BROWN 

Senator BROWN. Thank you, and I appreciate all the panel being 

here and, Mrs. Petraeus, thank you especially for the work that 

you are doing and will be doing. I sit at Chairman Akaka and Senator Tester on the Veterans’ Affairs Committee, and the stories we 

hear about financial predators, especially around places like 

Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, the scams that appeal 

to a veteran’s patriotism, the scam Web sites, the mailings masked 

as though they are run by the Government and look like they are 

coming from the Department of Defense or the VA, deceptively they 

often come from a dot-com operation that wants access to the veteran’s money, personal information, or both. It is shady automotive 

loans that target servicemembers. It is packed illegal fees into VA 

mortgages. You know all that. It is so important that we are on the 

side here of people who are serving their country or who have 

served their country, and I appreciate your focus on that. 

Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Hagan. 

STATEMENT OF SENATOR KAY HAGAN 

Senator HAGAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, just wanted to 

tell you how much I appreciate you holding this hearing today, especially as we are so close to Veterans Day. I think it is very appropriate. In North Carolina, we pride ourselves on being one of the 

most military-friendly States in the Nation and having such a huge 

number of active duty and veterans living in our State. 

I am also very concerned about the high rate of unemployment 

that returning veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan have. It is 

about 11.7 percent. And we also know that many of our military 

families are targets for predatory lenders and other schemes. So I 

think given these disturbing trends, we need to be sure that these 

returning heroes are not subject to predatory practices and that 

they also possess the tools and the skills that they need to make 

responsible financial decisions. 

So I thank the witnesses for being here today, and I look forward 

to your testimony. Mrs. Petraeus joined me at Fort Bragg recently 

to really talk about these issues, and I think she can bring such 

an important light to this topic for so many of the young people in 

our military today. So I thank you for doing that. 

6 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you all. I want to remind my colleagues that the record will be open for the next 7 days for opening 

statements and any other materials you would like to submit. 

Mrs. Petraeus, you may proceed with your testimony. 

STATEMENT OF HOLLISTER K. PETRAEUS, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF SERVICEMEMBER AFFAIRS, CONSUMER FINANCIAL PROTECTION BUREAU 

Ms. PETRAEUS. Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Shelby, and 

distinguished Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about the Office of Servicemember 

Affairs at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, or as we call 

it, CFPB. 

As a lifetime military family member, I have seen firsthand the 

devastating impact financial scams and predatory lending can have 

on our military families. I also spent 6 years as the head of the 

Better Business Bureau’s BBB Military Line program, and that 

was an education for me about the consumer issues and scams that 

impact the military. Unfortunately, there are still too many young 

troops learning financial lessons through hard experience and 

years of paying off expensive debt. 

In January 2011, I was asked to join the CFPB and head up the 

Office of Servicemember Affairs. The OSA’s job is to educate and 

empower servicemembers to make better-informed decisions regarding consumer financial products and services, to monitor their 

complaints about consumer financial products and services and the 

responses to those complaints, and to coordinate the efforts of Federal and State agencies to improve consumer protection measures 

for military families. 

In support of our mission, we have already signed a Joint Statement of Principles with the Judge Advocate Generals of all the 

services about how we will coordinate the exchange of information 

between us concerning military consumer complaints and the actions we take to protect servicemembers. We have also set up a 

working agreement with the Department of Veterans Affairs. We 

are now referring any military personnel or veterans who call the 

CFPB’s hotline claiming that they are in danger of foreclosure directly to the VA Home Loan Program. 

As for our educational mission, I think that it is important to get 

out and hear from military families about the issues that concern 

them the most. I have visited bases all over the United States since 

I started my job. I have also met with the National Guard in Oklahoma, Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana. 

So what are the issues that have come up? First, the housing 

meltdown has hit military families hard when they receive orders 

to move. Often they cannot sell their home for enough to pay off 

the mortgage. They cannot rent it out for enough to cover their 

mortgage payments. They are told they cannot get a loan modification or short sale because they are not yet delinquent. And they 

cannot refinance for a good rate because it will no longer be considered their principal residence once they leave. 

We have heard of a number of cases where the servicemember 

has opted to go alone to the new duty station, and that is pretty 

7 

tough when you consider that he or she may have just had an overseas deployment and the family is now facing another separation— 

this time for financial reasons. 

We are starting to see some positive movement on this issue. The 

Department of the Treasury has issued new military-related guidance for its Home Affordable Foreclosure Alternatives program, 

and Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are tweaking their own guidance 

as well. 

Another big issue we have been hearing about concerns military 

education benefits and for-profit colleges. There have been cases of 

very aggressive marketing by for-profit colleges to military personnel and their families of both educational programs and expensive private student loans. 

Another issue is car loans. Servicemembers are often sold 

clunkers at inflated prices with high financing charges and, when 

the original clunker breaks down, may be urged to roll the existing 

debt into another loan for yet another clunker. 

There is also yo-yo financing where servicemembers drive away 

thinking they have qualified for financing only to be told later that 

the financing fell through and they will have to pay more. Although 

the CFPB will only have supervisory authority over the auto dealers who write their own loans, the Federal Trade Commission and 

the Federal Reserve are required to coordinate with my office on 

military auto issues, and we have started to do that. 

Finally, a continuing issue for the military is the issue of indebtedness. Many servicemembers do not make much money, but it is 

a guaranteed paycheck and it is subject to garnishment outside of 

the normal court process. That has led to a lot of businesses looking to lend them money. It can be the kiosk at the mall selling 

high-priced electronics at even higher financing, the rent-to-own 

furniture store, or the latest installment loans that manage to exist 

just outside the Military Lending Act definition of payday loans. 

When servicemembers get behind in their payments, their debt 

is turned over to debt collectors. We are concerned about potential 

violations of the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. We have heard 

reports of debt collectors calling servicemembers’ units 20 times a 

day, threatening them with the Uniform Code of Military Justice 

and telling them that they will get them busted in rank or have 

their security clearance revoked if they do not pay up. They also 

may call the parents and spouses of deployed servicemembers in an 

attempt to get them to pay the debt. We have even heard of a debt 

collector telling a widow that she had to use the money from her 

husband’s combat death gratuity to pay the debt immediately. 

A big part of my job is to educate servicemembers about their 

rights under existing consumer financial laws and to give them the 

information they need to make wise financial decisions, and I will 

continue to work with you and other Federal and State agencies to 

help identify effective consumer protection measures that will work 

on their behalf. 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify before the Committee. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Mrs. Petraeus. 

Ms. Spain, you may proceed. 

8 

STATEMENT OF BONNIE SPAIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR/CHIEF 

EXECUTIVE OFFICER, RUSHMORE CONSUMER CREDIT RESOURCE CENTER 

Ms. SPAIN. Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Shelby, Committee Members, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to 

speak to you about what we see happening with the military in our 

area. 

Our organization has been serving Western South Dakota for 37 

years, providing housing counseling, credit counseling, and financial education programs. We also create national financial education programs that have been used by 1.4 million consumers 

across the Nation. Our agency serves military personnel at Ellsworth Air Force Base. The Airmen and Family Readiness Center 

invites us twice or three times a month to come out and provide 

financial education programs. They also refer individuals to us that 

are struggling with housing issues or if they have more financial 

issues for our debt management program, and on a rare occasion 

for someone to come in for pre-filing counseling or post-filing debtor 

education. 

Yes, the military do have housing issues that civilians do not. 

When they get orders, they have to move. A civilian has choices. 

They can choose not to move. They can choose when they move. 

The military cannot. If they take their family with them and they 

leave a home empty because it does not sell, it creates financial 

stress. If they leave their family home, it creates financial stress. 

It is a difficult time. 

Agencies such as ours that provide housing counseling can help 

military members and their families as they work through these 

difficult times while they serve our country. We helped one 21- 

year-old who was being discharged for medical disability. He was 

told to short sell his house. He could not find a Realtor that would 

list his house. The Realtors told him they are not accepting short 

sells. It is too much work. You have to get the lender to agree first. 

They came in and talked to our Consumer Credit Counselor who 

was able to get the lender to agree to the short sale and the Realtors are now listing the house. 

Another military family was retiring from the military and he 

was having difficulty selling his home, so he came in and contacted 

our Consumer Credit Counselor, certified, and she helped work 

with the lender to get the short sale through. Unfortunately, the 

lender refused to forgive the second mortgage and the military 

member had promised to sign a second note and repay $10,500. 

Even though they struggle through these issues, there is support 

for them. Military personnel are always under the pressure to keep 

their finances and their credit good because collections or bankruptcies can cost them their career, but this leaves them vulnerable 

to lenders that charge high rates of interest, and predatory lenders 

continue to target the military. 

One young man that came to the Airmen and Family Readiness 

Center had five payday loans, all charging over 36 percent interest. 

He received four loans online, one locally. He went to base legal. 

Base legal sent them a letter. The predatory lenders said these are 

open-ended transactions. They are not really payday loans. We are 

not changing the interest rate. At that point, the military member 

9 

only has the choice of hiring an attorney, which they cannot afford 

to do, and payday lenders know that. Payday lenders also know 

that people do not ask enough questions, and online, you can find 

different sites that do not tell you where they are located, not in 

their disclosures, not in their contact policy, not in their privacy 

policies. They do not tell you what their rates of interest are, but 

the very first question they ask the military member is, what is 

your Social Security number? 

We had one client that had gotten the payday loan but did not 

realize the funds had come from Croatia. They finally had to close 

their bank accounts in order to stop this company from pulling 

money out. 

Another issue that we see our military struggling with is debt 

settlement. Debt settlement can often do more harm than good because people do not understand how it works. One young airwoman 

paid $1,500 to find nothing being done with her creditors but for 

her to go farther delinquent. Another family that was civilian paid 

$6,000 in fees to have $600 set aside to settle their debts. 

Our demographics are shifting and we are seeing people across 

the board of all ages struggling with their finances and with multiple issues. We had one young man that came to us after he left 

the military that was filing for bankruptcy. He said he had made 

every possible mistake he could. He got payday loans while he was 

in the military. He went through a divorce that caused additional 

problems. And then he trusted when he went overseas a nice little 

old lady, he said, to pay his bills, and she did not pay his bills. So 

when he finally got out of the service and he was moving home, he 

rented a car. He fell asleep, so his friend took the car, got in an 

accident, and the insurance company sued him. So there he was, 

filing for bankruptcy. 

I can tell you unequivocally, after 25 years of working in the 

credit counseling industry, that financial education is key to helping people not be taken advantage of. It is important that the information be relevant to their personal situation. We also develop programs that are specific for Ellsworth and Rapid City, and we took 

our United Way funding and provided direct assistance to homeowners who were behind that needed a forbearance or loan modification and often have to come up with money. With $68,000, we 

helped 32 families save their homes. 

Our financial education programs are used by bases across the 

United States, including Ellsworth, Langley, Mountain Home, Fairchild, Tinker, Sheppard, Shaw, Randolph, and the Virginia Air National Guard, Florida National Guard, Tennessee National Guard, 

and Virginia National Guard. Our programs have also reached 

overseas. We had a Marine that asked us to send some of our programs over to Afghanistan this year. In 2007, we received a request from the Army to send some programs over to Northern Iraq. 

In wrapping up, I would like to recommend the following actions. 

Close the loopholes that payday lenders are using to charge military members over 36 percent interest. Require online businesses 

to post their locations and their interest rates. Strengthen regulation for the debt settlement companies that target individuals and 

are abusive. Apply the same standards for for-profit credit counseling agencies that nonprofits have to adhere to. Continue to supVerDate Nov 24 2008 15:43 Jun 01, 2012 Jkt 048080 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 L:\HEARINGS 2011\11-03B DISTILLER\110311.TXT JASON
10 

port financial education for our military. And allow the bases to 

use the funds to purchase materials that they know are good for 

their agencies and their military. 

Require homebuyer education for first-time homebuyers. It is 

vital we help people seek homes to help revitalize our troubled 

economy. And support housing counseling and homebuyer education. Military families need the assistance of trained, knowledgeable foreclosure specialists, individuals who can tell them what to 

watch for in their areas when they are buying a home. 

In conclusion, on behalf of Rushmore Consumer Credit Resource 

Center, and more importantly, the servicemen and women that we 

see, thank you for the opportunity to testify today. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Ms. Spain. 

Admiral Abbot, you may proceed. 

STATEMENT OF ADMIRAL CHARLES S. (STEVE) ABBOT, U.S. 

NAVY (RET.), PRESIDENT, NAVY-MARINE CORPS RELIEF SOCIETY 

Admiral ABBOT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Senator Shelby, Senators. I appreciate the opportunity to be with you today to discuss 

what our servicemembers are encountering in the financial marketplace. 

In 2010 at Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society, we saw 73,000 individual sailors and marines in our offices around the world, and 

some of them more than once. That is 100,000 cases, or what 

amounts to one-fifth, one out of every five sailors and marines, 20 

percent of the force, in a single year. So it is still a tough financial 

environment out there, especially for the junior troop. 

The financial assistance that we provided in 2010 was the greatest that we provided since the end of the cold war when the military services, including the Navy and the Marine Corps, were substantially larger than they are today. 

I would like to say up front that there is very good news. Senator 

Shelby referred to it, and it is the effect of the Military Lending 

Act, which became effective in October 2007. It has dramatically 

curtailed payday loans, and we are grateful for the farsightedness 

and the effectiveness of that legislation. To prove that point, I can 

say that our annual assistance to those who have become stuck in 

the payday loan trap has decreased from $1.4 million in 2006 to 

just $168,000 this year, and virtually all of that smaller amount 

went to retirees who were not covered by the Military Lending Act. 

We credit both the Military Lending Act and improved financial 

management education and training for this welcome development. 

But the Military Lending Act was implemented on a limited 

scope. Financial institutions have found loopholes in the regulations and new predatory lending practices have arisen which continue to victimize our clients. 

Before my visit this morning, I contacted all 51 of our offices 

around the world to ask what practices they are seeing that send 

their clients into the downward spiral of debt, and so here are a 

few illustrations of the problems that are facing young 

servicemembers. 

In Fort Worth, Texas, we assisted a retired Navy E5 with rent, 

food, and utilities because he had used his retirement check to 

11 

repay a payday loan. He had borrowed $950 at an annual percentage rate of 277 percent and the finance charge was over $216. 

In the interest of time, I will skip over a couple of others of these 

and ask that they be included in the record, but I would like to 

focus on those that deal with the use of overdraft charges. 

At Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, we recently helped a Marine Lance Corporal with food and utilities since his paycheck had 

been entirely consumed—entirely consumed—by overdraft charges 

and associated fees. And in Quantico, Virginia, a Navy E2 who we 

saw 1 month after his 21st birthday, with a wife and a child, had 

overdraft protection payments due at every payday, and when seen 

by our office, the member had six credit cards, one loan consolidation debt, and one personal loan. The Society helped with a no interest loan for food, gas, and diapers, and provided him some onthe-spot financial counseling and sent him to other sources for indepth counseling. 

A similar story in Corpus Christi, Texas, where we saw an active 

duty E5 with a wife and two small children. They were in a cycle 

of payments for overdrafts exacerbated by a high interest Internet 

loan, and the family had gone into the overdraft condition when 

they child they had required medical care at a facility in another 

town, but the distance was not far enough for TRICARE to cover 

the travel expenses. By the time the couple sought assistance, they 

had suffered four back-to-back paydays when $500 was taken by 

the bank to zero overdraft funds and fees. 

So here are the trends that my directors report. Banks and credit 

unions on and near military bases continue to charge exorbitant 

and multiple fees associated with overdraft protection. With an 

overdraft protection plan, the bank agrees to cover a transaction 

despite lack of funds in the account, charges a fixed fee, and takes 

payment out of the next deposit to the servicemember’s account before other banking transactions can take place. Common overdraft 

fees range from $25 to $35 per transaction. I mentioned earlier 

that I had polled all 51 of our offices. All but four of them listed 

this overdraft protection penalty as the top of their list. 

It has already been mentioned about online lending. It is hard 

to monitor. It is predatory. They evade State regulations by being 

offshore and they hide behind anonymous domain registrations. 

The financial industry is adjusting its practices. By structuring 

loans for a longer payback period and making them open-ended instead of closed-ended and for a larger amount, banks and other 

lending institutions offer installment loans that avoid the 36 percent annual percentage cap that was instituted with the Military 

Lending Act and can legally charge as much as 500 percent. 

A few recommendations. First, we need to continue to improve financial education and consumer awareness for these technically 

savvy but not necessarily financially savvy men and women in uniform. 

Two, legislators and administrators should plug the loopholes in 

the laws and regulations governing predatory lending practices. 

Three, the need for credit will not go away, even with better education and better laws, so we should stimulate additional responsible, low-cost alternatives to predatory loan practices. 

12 

Fourth, we should encourage direct dialog between senior military leaders and banking and credit union executives, including at 

the local level. 

Fifth, the protection of the Military Lending Act should be extended to retirees, Reservists, Guard, and to veterans. 

And sixth, banks and credit unions located on military installations should be held to a higher standard of service, offering military families, including military retirees, lower fees and better protection from predatory lending practice. They should also offer financial education to inexperienced consumers before they commit 

to loan contracts and agreements. Adopting better business practices would go a long way toward ameliorating, if not fixing, the 

problems that these servicemembers are experiencing. Some institutions are moving in that direction and I applaud those steps. 

I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to appear before the Committee today. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Admiral Abbot. 

General Bergner, you may proceed. 

STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL KEVIN BERGNER, U.S. ARMY 

(RET.), EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER, UNITED SERVICES AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION 

General BERGNER. Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Shelby, 

and Members of the Committee, thank you very much for your 

leadership and for your commitment to protecting our 

servicemembers and their families, and I want to thank you for the 

opportunity to appear before this hearing and represent USAA. 

I grew up in a military family. My father served in Korea and 

Vietnam. My brother served for 30 years, as did I, and I am the 

proud father of a son who is currently a Captain and recently returned from Iraq with the United States Army. So the issues before 

the Committee are ones that are important to me both personally 

and professionally and I appreciate the chance to represent USAA 

in this discussion. 

I had the privilege to serve as the Deputy Chief of Staff for General David Petraeus in Baghdad, Iraq, in 2007 and 2008, and then 

I got to know him well in 2005 when I served in Mosul, Iraq, as 

well. And during that time, we were very honored to live right 

down the street from one Holly Petraeus, who we first came to see 

as a wonderful advocate for our soldiers and our families and a 

wonderful friend to my wife, Carla, throughout my deployment, 

and so I want to just take a moment to say how much I am personally appreciative of her service, her willingness to continue to serve 

and be an advocate for our servicemembers and our families. Our 

Nation is so well served with her. 

I am also humbled to represent the 22,000 employees of USAA 

today. We were founded in 1922 by 25 Army officers who found 

themselves in the situation where the risk that they were exposed 

to and the mobility associated with their careers precluded them 

from finding insurance and security, and so they banded together 

and formed an association that has now grown to 8 million members today. But the founding values, their sense of service, and 

their commitment to one another endure and are still at the center 

13 

of USAA as an association of—a member-based organization. And 

our purpose today continues to be a very simple one: Help military 

families and facilitate their financial security. 

The USAA employees today are broadly recognized for their commitment to customer service, and it manifests itself in how our 

members feel about their association. About 98 percent of our members will stay with this association. About 94 percent of them say 

that they will stay for life, and we have about a 97 percent member 

satisfaction rate among those 8 million members of the association. 

Our employee commitment to those members is driven by one 

simple fact. We have the very best customers in the world, our 

members, and that is how we refer to them, as our members. And 

they deserve the very best service and protection that any financial 

services company could provide. In fact, we see their financial security as our national security responsibility to this Nation. 

I want to just share one example of how that commitment comes 

to life on a daily basis. So this is an example that took place a few 

months ago, and it was an Army captain serving in Iraq who called 

USAA because she was about to lose her home in the States due 

to foreclosure. Her mortgage was not with USAA, but she is a 

member of USAA. She spoke to a member service representative 

whose name is Norma Renteria, and Norma understood how important it was for that captain to be able to get back to the important 

duties associated with her deployment and the special circumstances surrounding that and realized that we needed to find 

special circumstances to take care of her. So Norma agreed and arranged for a short-term loan at a competitive rate that would get 

this captain current with the other lender and got her started on 

an application to refinance her mortgage at a lower rate and kept 

her in her home, not with USAA but a USAA member. 

And Norma Renteria represents the commitment of our association and the other 22,000 employees she serves with to understand 

the military, understand the special circumstances, and support 

them in those. About one in five of our employees is actively serving in the military, has served, or is a military spouse, so that is 

how we understand what it means to serve, and how we go the 

extra mile for our members. 

Some of the things that we do specifically unique to their circumstance is we have a deployment kit specifically for those that 

are deploying to help them get their finances organized. Our insurance policies do not have a wartime exclusion. Our checking accounts are truly free, and we refund the ATM fees that other banks 

charge our members when they use them. Also in 2010, we adjusted the payment terms on about $1 billion in credit and loan 

balances, enabling members to continue to meet their obligations 

on 72,000 accounts to keep them financially secure. 

We appreciate and share the Committee’s commitment to supporting and empowering our servicemembers in the financial services sector and we very much look forward to the discussion today, 

and thank you for the opportunity to be here. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, General Bergner. 

Mr. Pollack, you may proceed. 

14 

STATEMENT OF FRANK POLLACK, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF 

EXECUTIVE OFFICER, PENTAGON FEDERAL CREDIT UNION 

Mr. POLLACK. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and distinguished 

Members of the Committee. On behalf of the Board of Directors of 

the Pentagon Federal Credit Union, I want to thank you for the opportunity to testify today on these important issues that affect 

those who are sacrificing so much to protect our Nation. 

When we think about financial issues within the military community, we believe that more can be done to provide financial education and tools necessary for servicemembers to better manage 

their money. Too many servicemembers are ill prepared to protect 

themselves from those who would take advantage of their lack of 

financial sophistication. We would never send our troops into battle 

today, but we have not similarly focused on their financial preparedness. 

I would be remiss if I failed to recognize the laudatory efforts of 

credit unions in general and the defense credit unions in specific. 

Because defense credit unions are member-owned, not-for-profit cooperatives, we can create unique programs to meet the financial 

needs of military servicemembers and I would like to share some 

of the programs that the Pentagon Federal Credit Union has and 

provides to its membership. 

Recognizing the need to address the lack of financial education 

and in conjunction with our PenFed Foundation, we have established relationships with partners like Money University and 

MathMastery to develop financial education materials that will assist in teaching military personnel how to properly manage their 

money. We provide these services free of charge to members between the ages of 17 and 25. While all of our materials and legal 

documents are already in plain English, we do believe that the lack 

of clear and easy to use disclosures prevent members from comparing and thus selecting the best financial options available to 

them. 

As a result, in collaboration with the Pew Trust, we have introduced a checking account disclosure that is much more transparent 

and enables members to easily understand the fees and costs associated with their account. We hope to roll out similarly easy to use 

disclosures for all of our savings and loan products by the end of 

the first quarter of 2012. We believe that the disclosure format created by Pew Trust represents a better way forward for all financial 

institutions and we are proud to be a leader in rolling this out. 

The fact is that when a servicemember is fighting in Afghanistan 

or Iraq, they should not have to worry about fees and charges on 

their accounts, even when they do make a mistake. In 2009, we introduced a program for active duty servicemembers called Warriors 

Advantage, which waives checking account fees associated with insufficient funds for up to two occurrences in any rolling 3-month 

period. We have also waived ATM surcharge fees at all of our 

ATMs on military installations and we provide free bill payer services to all of our members, as well. 

In a recent survey of fees by the Military Times newspaper, we 

had the lowest average fees of any financial institution serving on 

military bases in the United States. Importantly, we intend to continue driving our fees lower as we look to the future. 

15 

Our efforts extend to borrowers as well as savers. Because we do 

not price based on risk, every qualified member receives the same 

price for a loan. Our present rate for a used car loan, which is a 

staple in the military community, is 2.49 percent APR. We provide 

a credit card offering that has no annual fees, no late charges, no 

foreign transaction fees, and the annual percentage rate is a market-leading 7.49 percent. In short, we are trying to do everything 

we can to ensure that the military member has low-cost credit 

available to them for any need they might have. 

We do know that military members can and do get into trouble 

with debt. When they do, some turn to payday lenders for assistance. For the past 8 years, we have provided an alternative to our 

members in such circumstances. Through our ARK loan, we provide up to a $500 emergency loan for a flat fee of $5. If a rollover 

is requested, the member is required to go to consumer credit counseling free of charge to develop a plan to get them out of trouble. 

We provide up to five rollovers free of charge for any additional 

rollovers that might be necessary. Through our Foundation, we 

cover the losses for 12 other defense credit unions who participate 

in our ARK loan program. 

And our Foundation’s DreamMaker program provides matching grants of up to $5,000 for active duty servicemembers seeking to 

purchase their first home. Because we have never done subprime 

lending, our delinquency and losses have remained low. As a result, our collection efforts are focused on helping members in trouble get out of trouble rather than harassing them. 

We are but one of many defense credit unions that view our reason for being as a labor of love for those who defend our country. 

The men and women who have given so freely of themselves so 

that we may be free at home deserve nothing less. 

We appreciate the opportunity to testify here today and we thank 

all of you for taking your precious time on an issue of real importance to the long-term security of our Nation. Thank you. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you, Mr. Pollack. Thank you very 

much for your testimony. 

As we begin questions, I will ask the Clerk to put 5 minutes on 

the clock for each member. 

Ms. Petraeus, many of the abuses that have been raised in testimony today are committed by nonbank financial institutions. Do 

you think that the CFPB would be better able to protect 

servicemembers and their families from abusive debt collectors, forprofit companies, and unscrupulous installment lenders if it had a 

director in place? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. Yes, Chairman, I do. We have an array of things 

that we can do to help servicemembers. One is certainly education, 

which we are already working on. Another would be enforcement. 

But the third leg, if you will, is supervision, and without a director, 

we cannot do the supervision of the nonbank entities such as payday lenders, debt collectors, private student lenders, the ones that 

you mentioned. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Ms. Spain, would you please describe for the 

Committee some of the regular financial literacy training you and 

your partners conduct for Ellsworth and the South Dakota National Guard. 

16 

Ms. SPAIN. We provide a program called ‘‘Money in Motion,’’ and 

it is a 2-hour basic financial education program. What it teaches— 

what people understand is they know they should budget. They do 

not know why. They know they should care about their credit 

score. They do not know why. And so what our programs do is explain the ‘‘why.’’ For example, you budget so that you can reach 

your goals and cover your bills. You want to know what your credit 

score is because it affects the interest rate you are going to pay, 

and the interest rate you are going to pay determines what your 

car payment is and how much money you are going to have left for 

other things. 

In addition, we provide a 6-hour credit education program called 

‘‘Credit When Credit Is Due.’’ And then the third program that we 

provide at Ellsworth is called ‘‘Make Your Move: A Guide to Home 

Ownership.’’ It is a 6-hour homebuying education program that 

shows students the current forms as well as the information they 

need to know in any community, what they need to ask. 

And those are the programs that we are currently providing. We 

also will provide programs upon request from Ellsworth Airmen 

and Family Readiness Center. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Admiral Abbot, General Bergner, and Mr. 

Pollack, as we have heard, the military lifestyle is different and 

creates unique financial challenges for servicemembers and their 

families, especially during deployment. What tools are available to 

military consumers to make these transitions smoother? Admiral. 

Admiral ABBOT. The military lifestyle is a peripatetic one that, 

as Mrs. Petraeus has described, in recent years has involves so 

many rotations into theater and back, that creates the difficulties 

for the families that are staying back at the installation and the 

dilemma that is posed them whether they are going to, in fact, remain at the installation or, in fact, move to some other location 

where they might have other more family oriented support, particularly difficult for the junior members. 

So we, for instance, at the Navy Marine Corps Relief Society will 

see clients, individuals who have come in to us to ask for assistance 

in dealing with some of those circumstances where the military 

member is deployed over a substantial period of time. The spouse 

is back alone at the installation and, in fact, may choose to move 

to a location where she has or he has more family. 

Chairman JOHNSON. General Bergner. 

General BERGNER. Mr. Chairman, one of the biggest challenges 

our servicemembers face today is the mobility challenge. We send 

them hither and yon. We send them all over the world. 

So, their ability to maintain their credit and at the same time 

have access to the financial services that they so deserve is one of 

the biggest challenges they face. 

So, one of the tools that we have recently deployed is something 

called Auto Circle. You can access it on your mobile device and we 

have arranged discounts with car manufacturers to provide those 

to our servicemembers, and on average, they can save about $4,500 

on the purchase of an automobile by using that. 

But most importantly, it puts the facts in their hands. So, no 

matter where they are, where the services take them, they have 

the facts available to them to make a decision that is the right deVerDate Nov 24 2008 15:43 Jun 01, 2012 Jkt 048080 PO 00000 Frm 00020 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 L:\HEARINGS 2011\11-03B DISTILLER\110311.TXT JASON
17 

cision for them, that is not going to be a car lender or car dealer 

outside their gate. 

We do the same thing with home purchases and home mortgages, allowing them to access them online, fill out the application 

online, and pursue that mortgage online. 

So, being relative to their mobility is one of the key things that 

we commit to with our members. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Mr. Pollack. 

Mr. POLLACK. Credit unions do a lot and the Pentagon does as 

well. Similar to the USAA, we have a deployment Kit. Many credit 

unions serve at overseas bases, and very, very few of those locations make any money. We do it at a loss. 

The issues are, as the general has pointed out, that when you are 

moving that frequently, your spouse and family may be at home 

and you may be somewhere a long way away. 

So, we too provide online services 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. 

A member who is stationed overseas can call us on DSN. We reimburse the Government for that so that they can reach us 24 hours 

a day, 7 days a week if there is an issue. 

In our case, we are live, real-time in our computer system 24 

hours a day, 7 days a week around the globe so that if a military 

person deposits money in Okinawa, and their spouse needs that 

money in Washington, DC, the money is available at the same time 

it is deposited. 

Those kinds of services enable a military person to be far away 

from their family and able to take care of their family at the same 

time. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Thank you. Senator Shelby. 

Senator SHELBY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mrs. Petraeus, in your testimony you discussed that you joined 

the bureau in January of this year to start an entirely new office, 

the Office of Service Member Affairs. 

How many people have you hired to work in your office? How 

many total staff members do you hope to hire, and what is your 

budget? And last, are you getting the resources that you need here? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. Thank you for the question, Ranking Member 

Shelby. 

I have six employees working for me. So, we are a small but 

mighty office I hope. I do not expect to have it get much larger 

than that, at least not for the moment. 

Of course, everybody has a wish list, and there is nobody that, 

if you ask, can you use more employees they would say no. And I 

do have a wish list of a few more to extend our reach, but, you 

know, there are other divisions within the CFPB that we are able 

to tap for their expertise as well. So, we do not have to do everything ourselves. 

As for our budget, that is still being hammered out, and thankfully for me my deputy is doing the numbers so I am a little bit 

removed from that so I cannot give you accurate information on 

that right now. 

Senator SHELBY. Do you think you are getting the resources 

overall that you need thus far? I know you are just getting started 

in a way. 

18 

Ms. PETRAEUS. Yes, the resources are there, but again, I think 

it is a frustration right now to not be able to do everything that 

people expected us to do. 

When I first began, I got letters saying we are so excited that 

there is an agency now, that you, Ms. Petraeus, will be able to do 

something about these people that prey on the military. So, I am 

very eager for the day when our nonbank supervision team can, if 

I can use an analogy, stop circling the airfield and get permission 

to land and start their work. 

Senator SHELBY. Mrs. Petraeus, as you well know, in 2006 Congress passed the Military Lending Act, and this gave the Department of Defense the authority to promulgate regulations to address 

unscrupulous lending practices involving the military. 

After the Dodd-Frank legislation was passed, the Department of 

Defense still continues to have the sole authority to write regulations implementing that particular Act. 

What is your view of the effectiveness of the Act in stopping unscrupulous lending? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. Well, I think we heard from Admiral Abbot. 

Senator SHELBY. Absolutely. 

Ms. PETRAEUS. That there has been success on the classic definition of a payday loan. I think the problem is there are a lot of predatory products out there that have now managed to write themselves a definition that puts them outside of the implementation. 

I went online yesterday and I searched the search term military 

loans, and I got 9,980,000 hits, and the top two search terms that 

came up were military loans bad credit, which was almost 

2,000,000, and military loans no credit check also 2 million. 

So, there are obviously a ton of people out there who are managing to exist outside of the protections of the Military Lending 

Act, and it is a problem. 

Senator SHELBY. Ms. Spain, should the VA require first-time 

home buyers to receive financial education of some sort before they 

can obtain a VA insured loan? In other words, counseling, serious 

counseling as to the implications and obligations of a loan like this? 

Ms. SPAIN. My opinion would be yes, and the reason that I say 

that is buying a home is a complicated process; and unless you are 

a realtor or mortgage lender, you cannot possibly know everything 

that you need to know in buying a home. 

Senator SHELBY. And it is a big buy for most people, is it not? 

Ms. SPAIN. It is the most important, largest purchase they will 

ever make. 

Senator SHELBY. Admiral Abbot, in your testimony, among other 

things, you stated that the Military Lending Act, and I will your 

words, ‘‘has dramatically curtailed payday loans to active duty 

servicemembers.’’ We are glad to hear that. 

You also point out, however, that some financial institutions 

have found loopholes in the regulations that the Department of Defense promulgated in 2007. They always do this and you have to 

come back. 

Have you contacted the Department of Defense regarding these 

issues, and if so, what has been their response to close some of 

those loopholes? 

19 

Admiral ABBOT. Yes, Senator, we did, in fact, in the year immediately after the Act was passed and then implemented have a period where we examined its effect and we reported the results that 

we had seen to the Department of Defense. 

It had already begun to be clear that it was having a positive effect and also the same phenomenon you describe of the 

workarounds were coming. 

The narrowness with which we saw the Act implemented gave us 

concerns at the beginning and now in the light of 4 years of experience, it continues to cause us concern, and that is the direction 

that the financial industry has gone in using the particular limited 

application of closed end loans in certain circumstances to, in fact, 

offer new products that were essentially new payday loans. 

Senator SHELBY. Regarding online lending and the growth there, 

are there additional steps that the DOD can take to ensure that 

it adequately covers online lending, because people will be resourceful to get around anything? 

Admiral ABBOT. You know, Senator, I believe that education may 

be the single most important weapon in that particular fight. 

Senator SHELBY. You agree with Ms. Spain? 

Admiral ABBOT. Yes. 

Senator SHELBY. OK. General Bergner, USAA, I know your organization is unique. What are some of the ways briefly that USAA 

is uniquely qualified to serve the military—I know that is your 

focus—and their families? 

General BERGNER. Senator, I think it starts with the best customers in the world, and we recognize that. It is then followed by 

the best employees in the world to do that. 

The combination of those two things generates a level of commitment that really is at the center of how we can truly put their 

needs first. 

A couple of ways that it manifests itself, we look at every person 

out there from a member needs perspective, and so that is where 

we start and finish. 

Last year we saved those members about $165 million through 

refinancing on mortgages and on savings in their auto purchases 

specifically. That is a tremendous amount of savings for 

servicemembers who are exposed to the kind of threats that Ms. 

Petraeus is talking about. 

So, it is a member-focused effort. SCRA is another example. 

SCRA caps 6 percent. At USAA we cap the exposure at 4 percent. 

So, it is going that extra mile for servicemembers because it is 

the right thing to do. 

Thank you, sir. 

Senator SHELBY. Mr. Pollack, briefly, it is my understanding 

there are at least nine Federal regulators and regulators in all 50 

States, all of our States, with the authority to regulate, supervise, 

and possibly enforce lending to servicemembers by both banks and 

nonbank lenders. 

In your view, have any of these regulators failed to properly oversee lending to military personnel, and if so, which ones, because we 

need to point this out because the regulators need to do their jobs? 

Mr. POLLACK. I am not sure I could actually answer your question but I do believe it is an issue of education. If we properly eduVerDate Nov 24 2008 15:43 Jun 01, 2012 Jkt 048080 PO 00000 Frm 00023 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 L:\HEARINGS 2011\11-03B DISTILLER\110311.TXT JASON
20 

cated our young people in America, they would not make some of 

the mistakes that they make today. 

Senator SHELBY. Do you all agree that the worst thing a lender 

can do is overload anyone but especially a young servicemember, 

19, 20, 21 years of age with debt they cannot carry? It makes no 

sense financially and it is exploiting the servicemember, is it not? 

Mr. POLLACK. Yes, sir, it is. And I have been doing this for 33 

years and for 33 years we have had that exact problem that a 

young person enters the service and the first thing they do is buy 

a car that they cannot afford. The second thing they do is take on 

more insurance than they can afford; and before they ever get 

going, they are in trouble. 

Senator SHELBY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Reed. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank 

you for your wonderful testimony. 

First, let me make three points. I want to commend, Mr. Pollack, 

Pentagon Federal for adopting a Pew disclosure form. That should 

be the standard for financial institutions throughout the country. 

So, thank you. 

Second, I think one of the most satisfying aspects of the DoddFrank Act for me was working with Senator Brown to create the 

Office of Servicemembers Affairs and particularly delighted that 

Holly Petraeus is leading it. So, thank you for what you are doing. 

Third, in the mid-1970s, I commanded a paratrooper company; 

and before that, I was the executive officer of the company which 

meant every day I got letters from creditors and I got young paratroopers telling me how they bought a $25,000 truck on a $17,000 

a year income. 

But what I have heard today is, I think, even more outrageous 

than I recollect in terms of what is being done to military personnel, particularly now in a time of war. 

So, whatever we have done, it is not enough, and we have got 

to do more. Let me start with that premise. 

But let me focus in on those particular issues alluded to in Admiral Abbot’s testimony. Thank you, by the way, sir, for your selfless 

service to the Mutual Aid Association, to the Marines and Sailors, 

and to your colleagues in the Army and the Air Force. 

But we have facilities that operate on bases, and the expectation, 

I think, is that they are on a military base from the individual 

servicemembers is that they are sort of the gold edition because 

they have the stamp of approval. They are sitting there. 

I know they operate under operating agreements. So, the question I want to address to Ms. Petraeus and Ms. Spain and the admiral is, are those operating agreements sufficient? Are they being 

enforced? 

And I will just say there are some indications in an Army Times 

story that some of these facilities are charging far in excess of fees 

for missed payments or failure to pay on time on time, et cetera, 

than is normal. 

So, Ms. Petraeus. 

Ms. PETRAEUS. I will say, as you mentioned, they do have a contract to operate on those installations and they are expected to do 

21 

certain things. Part of that contract is to provide financial education. 

Certainly, there should also be transparency in the fees that they 

are charging. When that contract comes up for review, that is an 

opportunity for these services to decide if they are treating their 

customers right. 

I will say that we are taking a look at the issue of what are these 

special products that financial institutions are providing for 

servicemembers. We put a Federal Register notice in about a 

month and a half ago asking for input from across the field saying 

let us know what you are doing, and we are going to have a 1-day 

forum next month where we discuss both the issues and then some 

of the things that are being done that are on the positive side. 

Hopefully, that will serve to kind of put the word out about what 

is being done that is commendable and what are the issues that 

need to be addressed, and we look forward to some cross-pollination, if you will. I hope they will look at that and go back and 

say, why can’t our institution do this? 

So, I am pleased about that. 

Senator REED. Ms. Spain, your comments. 

Ms. SPAIN. There is a credit union that operates on Ellsworth Air 

Force Base, and they support financial education through grants 

that allow us to go to the base to provide the education. The military members and the family readiness center have not had any 

complaints regarding that particular credit union. 

Senator REED. Thank you. Admiral Abbot, you can elaborate on 

your comments. 

Admiral ABBOT. Senator, I know that our servicemembers and 

our clients at the Navy Marine Corps Relief Society are grateful for 

the services that they do get from the finance industry on base. 

That is a great convenience and we are grateful for it. 

I do agree that the renegotiation of the periodic contract is a spot 

at which there ought to be a frank discussion about practices and 

that the local leadership should be empowered to discuss those 

issues with the bank and credit union leadership. 

We have heard today about some commendable best practices. I 

personally believe there is an opportunity for a discourse consolidation of those in a way that would benefit all of the military installations that have those facilities. 

Senator REED. Thank you. My time is about expired. General 

Bergner, I do not want to upset your premise that you have good 

customers because I have been a customer for 40 years so forgive 

me. 

Back in 1971 I insured a very dashing Triumph with USAA, a 

Triumph sports car. The years have passed and now I am ensuring 

a 1991 Ford Escort. That is what happens as you grow older. 

So, thank you for your service and my regards again to General 

Moellering. Thank you all. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Akaka. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. Petraeus, our guard and reserve forces have been called up 

to fight alongside their active duty counterparts at a higher ops 

tempo to ensure our Nation’s safety. 

22 

What do you see as differences in the consumer protection needs 

for families of our reserve component when they are on active duty 

versus when they are in reserve status? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. I have had the opportunity, as I mentioned, to 

talk with a number of National Guard officers and enlisted and 

their families on my trips out to the States. In fact, I try to do that 

when I go out because their issues are a bit different. 

For a great amount of their time, the families especially consider 

themselves really to be civilian families, and some of the challenges 

preparing them for that change of circumstance is when suddenly 

they become a military family and they have their guardsman or 

reservist deployed. 

They do not have the installations that the active duty force has 

with all the wonderful offices that they can walk into and get information. So, a great deal of it really has to be delivered virtually 

through the Web. 

I think they have come a long way. There are some great initiatives now. Yellow Ribbon programs that do provide information before they deploy and then also circle back around after they come 

back. 

But delivery of information is certainly a challenge for them. 

Again, just making the families really aware of what is there for 

them in the way of benefits. I will add, the economy is, of course, 

a challenge for those families as well. Employment is a big issue 

both for them when they are not on active duty and also for their 

family members. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. 

Ms. Spain, on average, military members arrive at their initial 

training assignments with $10,000 in debt. This means that they 

may already be behind before they even consider how to manage 

their finances. 

In your experience, does this initial debt influence their reliance 

on high interest loans to meet their short-term needs? 

Ms. SPAIN. When they come in and have debt, it does affect them 

because they become targets, because they know they have to make 

those payments. If they have anything go wrong, if the car breaks 

down or whatever happens, they become more vulnerable, and that 

is why they fall prey to lenders that are charging the exorbitant 

fees. So, it does make a difference. 

At Ellsworth we are allowed to come in and talk to the firsttermers which makes a huge difference and provide them the education so that they know that they have options and to ask questions very carefully and to know that there are other programs and 

assistance available. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. Ms. Petraeus, I want to congratulate 

you and wish you the best as you focus on the important topic of 

financial education and consumer protection for military families. 

If there was one thing Congress could do to help CFPB better 

protect servicemembers and their families, what do you think that 

would be? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. Confirm a director for us so we can use the full 

array of what is there. I agree education is vitally important but 

we need to be able to also exercise supervision, to go in and take 

23 

a look at the practices of some of the nonbank lenders that are out 

there. 

I actually heard a quote from a CEO of a Federal credit union 

in Ohio. The quote was, ‘‘We have a branch of ours near a pawn 

shop and a payday lender and the only one that is regulated is us.’’ 

So, we need a fair playing field and to do that we have to be able 

to go in and supervise and look at these folks, and then, as needed, 

exercise the enforcement capability as well. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you. 

Ms. Petraeus, as operations come to a close in Iraq, we will begin 

to see end strength numbers decrease and veterans numbers increase. 

What are you doing now to partner with agencies, such as the 

VA, to identify the financial needs or vulnerabilities of those 

transitioning to veteran status? How are the needs of these wounded in action different? 

I was glad in your statement you did mention you are working 

closely with VA. 

Ms. PETRAEUS. We are and we have talked to them both, as I 

said, about the distressed homeowners that may come to us that 

we might be able to help. 

We have also talked to them on the issue of education benefits 

because we will have a lot of veterans getting out looking to use 

their G.I. Bill which is a wonderful benefit, and we want to be sure 

that they use it for college programs that provide them the best 

bang for your buck, if you will. 

Unfortunately, there is very heavy marketing right now because 

military education benefits do not count in the 90 percent for forprofit colleges. They can only get 90 percent from Title IV education funds. They have to get 10 percent of their funding elsewhere, and the military benefits are part of that elsewhere, that 10 

percent. So, they are heavily marketed to. 

We have been talking to them again hopefully to make it more 

transparent when you look at a college, what is its track record, 

what is the default rate on loans for its graduates, what is its accreditation. 

And our Office of Students has just put out a ‘‘know before you 

owe’’ kind of financial worksheet that I think is a good first step. 

I think we all want to see our veterans come out, find gainful 

employment, and become productive members of society. We have 

also worked with the Department of Defense, Office of Transition 

on that as well. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much. Thank you Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Tester. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I had a question that I wanted to dovetail with the Ranking 

Member’s question. I think Senator Akaka may have gotten the answer to it but I just want to be very clear. 

The reason that the nonbank supervision team is still circling, to 

use your words, and has not received permission to land, in other 

words, the reason we cannot regulate the nonbank financial folks 

that I think just about everybody on this panel referred to as being 

24 

somewhat of a problem as regards to our military folks is because 

we do not have a director of the CFPB, is that correct? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. That is correct. 

Senator TESTER. Thank you. 

I want us to go back on what you just finished up with, and that 

is for-profit schools. You brought the attention to us of some of the 

unethical recruitment and marketing practice of the bad actors in 

this industry, and they are not all bad actors but some of them are. 

What are you doing about it? Is it an education situation? How 

are we reaching out to the military personnel and are we being 

successful in that? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. I think it is a work in progress right now. I think 

a lot of it really just has to be education where servicemembers 

know to ask the right questions. 

There are kind of two competing priorities in a way when a 

servicemember is on active duty and has what is called tuition assistance benefits. They may be looking for college credits for promotion. So they want something they can get quickly, easily if you 

will, possibly online. Seventy percent of those courses are delivered 

online. 

That may not be the best college credits for them when they get 

out and want to apply that college to a job. 

So, right now it is mostly education. Our jurisdiction, if you will, 

is limited to the private student lender side of the market. But I 

have a broad mandate to work on consumer protection measures 

with Federal and State agencies, and I will continue to do that especially on this issue. 

Senator TESTER. We appreciate that work. I want to talk about 

foreclosures for a second. And this is a question for you to Major 

General. Right now, the servicemembers are protected under the 

Servicemembers Civil Relief Act when it comes to foreclosures, and 

correct me if I am wrong on that. 

Can you tell me what is the mechanism for mortgage servicers 

to determine if there is a deployment status of a servicemember 

and how is that handled? 

What I am trying to get at is it is my understanding that there 

are some servicers that are starting foreclosure before, while the 

servicemember is employed. I do not believe that is illegal under 

the law. Correct me if I am wrong. What is being done about that? 

I will start with you, Holly. 

Ms. PETRAEUS. First, I have to fess up, I am not a lawyer. 

Senator TESTER. Neither am I. 

Ms. PETRAEUS. I am not going to give you binding legal advice 

here. But when it is a question of foreclosure, it is not the obligation of the servicemember to tell their mortgage holder that they 

are going on active duty, unlike the interest rate reduction provision where you do have to tell them. 

For protection from nonjudicial foreclosure, it is on the lender to 

determine if you are on active duty, and they can do that by going 

to the Defense manpower data system and looking that up. 

You are right. Judging by the recent announcements by the Department of Justice of some large-scale settlements, obviously there 

are servicers who are not doing that before they foreclose. 

25 

Senator TESTER. Major General, could you just address that from 

your perspective? 

General BERGNER. Senator, I think I go back to a reference I 

made in my opening statement about Norma Renteria. She is probably the best example I could give you of our commitment and the 

way that it plays out on a daily basis. 

So, Norma Renteria benefited from the training necessary for a 

member service representative to understand what the SCRA requirements are and to ensure that we operate and are true to 

those. 

Remember, in my recollection, this was not a loan that we had 

even made. 

Senator TESTER. Right. I guess the question I have got is that 

we have heard a lot about mortgage servicers. It has not necessarily been good in a lot of cases. 

General BERGNER. Yes, sir. 

Senator TESTER. Do we have to ramp up the penalty on them? 

I mean, I am not big into this stick; but by the same token, and 

you know this better than anybody and tell me if I am wrong. If 

you have a servicemember in theater in very stressful conditions, 

the last thing you want is to have the kid, is to have their head 

back at home thinking about a house that is being foreclosed on. 

General BERGNER. Exactly. 

Senator TESTER. So, what do we do about this? 

General BERGNER. Senator, I think it starts with a sense of ownership and it starts with a sense of ownership and obligation to 

those servicemembers and that is what is at the center of our commitments. 

Even when the loan is not with our financial institution, we will 

work with that servicemember to protect them from foreclosure and 

do everything humanly possible to keep them in their home, and 

not to mention the law requires us to do so for those who are deployed. 

Senator TESTER. I appreciate you and I appreciate your company. 

Unfortunately, there are a lot of other folks out there that do not 

share the same commitment, and I do not appreciate them near as 

much as I do you. 

I want to thank you guys all for your testimony. I appreciate the 

work you do and good luck. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Menendez. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 

your testimony. 

I want to pick up where Senator Tester left off. As the Housing 

Subcommittee Chair, we have taken a particular interest in stopping foreclosures on military families. At one of the hearings I 

chaired, we invited Dick Harpootlian to testify, who is an attorney 

who represents military families who were illegally foreclosed upon 

by some of the largest banks in violation of the Servicemembers 

Civil Relief Act. And it seemed to me from his testimony and other 

sources that the act is either not well understood—on the benign 

side we will say that—or simply not followed and needs better enforcement. For example, Bank of America, Morgan Stanley, and 

JPMorgan Chase collectively agreed to pay $80 million to hundreds 

of military families whom they illegally foreclosed on. 

26 

So, Mrs. Petraeus, my question is: What can the CFPB do to help 

the problem of servicemembers and their families being threatened 

with foreclosure and high interest rates when they are on active 

duty? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. I have certainly had the opportunity to talk about 

this issue, and I did hear Mr. Harpootlian testify over on the House 

side along with the young captain who had been impacted by being 

foreclosed on while he was—or the threats of it while he was deployed. 

I should first point out that is a law—the Servicemembers Civil 

Relief Act is not a law that the CFPB will enforce. That does remain with the Justice Department Civil Rights Division, and it is 

partly because, as you said, it is a very complicated law. There are 

a lot of pieces to it. 

But we did want to take steps so if we got complaints that came 

in to us, first of all, that our consumer response folks would be able 

to identify something that was a potential SCRA complaint. So we 

have done some training in our own system so people recognize it, 

and we also met with all the JAGs and the Justice Department in 

the same room, and we and the JAGs of all the services signed a 

Joint Statement of Principles. Really one of the main drivers of 

that was to make sure that SCRA complaints did not fall through 

the cracks and that we would have a procedure for what we would 

do with them if we got them to see that they would be addressed. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Well, I appreciate that because the Justice 

Department, of course, is—sometimes it is a matter after the fact 

where you have gone through, you know, the nightmare of foreclosure while you are stationed abroad. And while you may get relief at the end of the day, financial relief by an action taken by 

someone like Mr. Harpootlian on behalf of those families, that does 

not mean that you have solved the problem of keeping your home. 

And so I hope that—while you may not have direct jurisdiction, I 

appreciate this effort. We would love to work with you all to try 

to have a more vigorous approach that has those who give mortgage products out understand the responsibility they have here at 

the end of the day so we can prevent that action versus deal with 

the aftermath of foreclosure. 

Ms. PETRAEUS. Much better to be proactive than reactive, and, 

frankly, it all boils down to that person on the other end of the 

phone, and if they are unaware of what protections they should be 

extending, then you are going to have a problem for that 

servicemember. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Is the Justice Department considering bringing in the largest mortgage entities and giving them a little bit of 

a primer here on what they are supposed to do? Do you know 

whether your discussions have led to anything like that? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. I have not heard that in particular from them, 

but, again, a lot of what they do they do not announce publicly. I 

did have the opportunity—I went ahead and wrote a letter to the 

CEOs of the 25 largest banks several months ago saying this has 

been an issue and I hope that you will look at your own practices 

and make sure that you are not doing this to the servicemembers 

who have accounts with you. 

27 

Senator MENENDEZ. I appreciate that. We will follow up with 

Justice. 

Let me ask you collectively, I know that some of my colleagues 

before have talked about the Military Lending Act, and I just want 

to get a bottom-line answer here. It seems to me that the act which 

capped annual interest rates for consumer credit to military borrowers at 36 percent, including fees and charges, has been narrowly defined in payday lender loans, in vehicle title loans, and tax 

refund anticipation loans, but they do not include high-cost credit 

cards, they do not include overdraft loans, military installment 

loans, any forms of open-end credit, mortgages, auto loans. If the 

public policy in one universe is to protect servicemembers at the 

end of the day from such high-interest fees and charges, is there 

a public policy reason not to extend that to this broader universe 

for servicemembers? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. Well, I am all about consumer advocacy, so I 

would love to see broader protections. But I know the devil is in 

the details trying to write a rule that does it in a way that does 

not have unintended consequences. But, yes, I am for broader protections. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Anybody in public policy, why that is not a 

good one? 

Admiral ABBOT. I was going to climb on the side of saying that 

I think there is a public policy reason to extend it for the same reason that the original legislation was put in place because of the effect that it was having on service men and women on their condition, on their loss of security clearances, on their loss of readiness 

to deploy, and the morphed measures that have been taken to deal, 

to go around those measures that are in existence have effectively 

produced the same circumstances, just with slightly different products. 

Senator MENENDEZ. Well, thank you. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. Senator Hagan. 

Senator HAGAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I once again just 

want to say how thankful I am for you holding this hearing today. 

I think we have gotten good information. And I also think what we 

have discussed speaks volumes about the need for financial literacy 

education in our public school systems. I do not think we do enough 

of that. I keep saying it is not rocket science. We just do not teach 

it, and I think so many of our young people in the military could 

benefit greatly if they had had a financial literacy education course 

while they were in high school. So it is something that I am advocating for, and I certainly hope at some point in time we can accomplish that at the State level and at the Federal level. 

But I did want to, General Bergner, ask you a question. I know 

that many years ago when many of our military bases were in very 

remote locations, there was a one-base, one-bank rule that came 

into play, and I have heard that this limits the number of financial 

institutions on military bases. So can you describe this to me and 

discuss the benefit to servicemembers, pro and con? And then anybody else. 

General BERGNER. Senator, thank you very much. We do not operate on a military installation as a single bank, but we do have 

28 

an educational foundation that will produce about 4.1 million 

pieces of material on everything from cybersecurity to financial 

management to car seat safety, things that truly do matter to 

servicemembers and their families, without regard to a product endorsement or even a mention of the company that is sponsoring the 

educational foundation. 

One of the challenges that exists is access to those military 

servicemembers to support their requirements and their needs. For 

example, we have been asked by army community service and family readiness groups to provide such educational material and support them, and because of the one-bank rule, that sometimes limits 

our ability to provide those, even though they do not have any reference to a bank or other financial activity. 

So I think to the degree that we can level that and make those 

kinds of resources available, there is the opportunity for nonprofit, 

not-for-profit educational foundations to help fill that gap in financial literacy. We will give about 900 presentations this year from 

the educational foundation on financial management, many of 

those to servicemembers and their families, many of them to National Guard and Reserve components who are located far away 

from the footprint of army community services. 

So I think there is an opportunity for us to be able to enable nonprofit educational foundations like our educational foundation to 

serve some of those purposes. 

Senator HAGAN. Anybody else care to comment on that question? 

Mr. POLLACK. Senator, I think we need to be careful in the overseas environment because the credit unions are not making money 

overseas, and to the extent that we put more financial institutions 

on base overseas, I think it would actually be counterproductive. 

Stateside it is a different issue, but overseas I think we need to be 

careful. 

Senator HAGAN. Thank you. 

Admiral Abbot, you mentioned overdraft practices in your testimony. What could be done on this front? And are high overdraft 

fees common on on-base financial institutions? 

Admiral ABBOT. Senator, yes, I would have to assess it as probably the top problem that I am observing right now in young service men and women who are getting into a condition that they cannot cope and, therefore, come to see us. And it is the magnitude 

of the fees that they pay. I read a statistic that in 2011 the national cost of overdraft fees will be $38 billion. And, of course, the 

military members are only a small fraction of that, but at $25 to 

$35 a time, and in some cases up to as many as seven per day. So 

for somebody who has overdraft protection and $500 worth of it, 

seven times $25 does not work out very well. There needs to be and 

there are a number of proposals that have not only been made but 

implemented by credit institutions which improve that circumstance. We do not advocate one specific list of them, but are encouraged that they are being discussed, and we think that is going 

in the right direction. 

Senator HAGAN. Well, it certainly seems like something that, 

once again, education would really help up front on this issue. 

Admiral ABBOT. I would like to strongly agree with that, and also 

add that it is not a one-time inoculation, that you have to repeat 

29 

financial management education throughout the career of an individual, because the problems will rear their head again. 

Senator HAGAN. Chairman Johnson, I have one more question, or 

should we—— 

Chairman JOHNSON. Go ahead. 

Senator HAGAN. Mrs. Petraeus, in your testimony you state that 

the CFPB will focus on ensuring that students understand the dynamics of student loans, and so many of our servicemembers in 

particular in many cases are first-generation college students, and 

they are being offered opportunities for a lot of different areas. Can 

you describe a little bit more about what you are looking at in that 

regard as far as advising them and giving advice? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. Well, I think there are some real concerns. Again, 

there is such aggressive marketing right now to the military, and 

it is not just the military members but it is their spouses and children as well because the GI bill now, those benefits can be transferred to them. 

I talked to an army wife at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, and she 

started her comment at my roundtable by saying, ‘‘Well, I am attending a military-affiliated college.’’ And I thought, ‘‘Hmm.’’ So I 

asked her the name of it, and, of course, it was not. It was a forprofit. But obviously they had marketed themselves to her in such 

a way that she thought they had an official military affiliation. And 

she said that when she had filled out a card of inquiry, they called 

her 10 or 15 times a day until she enrolled. And once that first day 

of class happened, she was having trouble logging on, because it 

was an online class, and she could not find anybody to take her 

calls because, again, they had her money at that point. She ended 

up not passing the course because she could not get logged on 

enough times to do so, but the money was definitely committed. 

So, again, I have a real interest in folks being able to make more 

informed decisions than just ‘‘they sounded military-friendly,’’ ‘‘they 

called me 15 times a day.’’ I think we need to get some tools out 

there to make it easy for people to compare and see, you know, 

what is the track record. If it is a for-profit and it costs more, is 

it worth the extra money I may have to spend beyond my military 

education benefits which will not cover the whole cost. 

Senator HAGAN. In that particular instance, did she get her 

money back? 

Ms. PETRAEUS. No. 

Senator HAGAN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman JOHNSON. To the panel, thank you all for your testimony and for being here with us today. I am grateful to those 

brave men and women who have served our country and to those 

who continue to serve and their families for sharing them with us. 

I will continue to work to make sure that servicemembers, vets, 

and their families have all the tools and protections they need and 

deserve. 

This hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:09 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.] 

[Prepared statements supplied for the record follow:] 

30 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR MICHAEL F. BENNET 

Thank you Chairman Johnson and Ranking Member Shelby for holding this important hearing. 

It’s not often that the Banking Committee has the opportunity to specifically discuss the financial challenges faced by military families and veterans. 

In Colorado, which has multiple military installations for our Active Duty, Guard, 

and Reserve forces, and around 460,000 veterans, this issue is critical. 

As we all know, military families face unique financial challenges, such as multiple deployments, temporary relocations and changes of duty station, and sudden 

health care costs. 

These challenges have been magnified over the last decade, as we’ve asked more 

of our men and women to serve in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and as our 

economy tumbled into the toughest downturn since the Great Depression. 

Meanwhile, it seems that some pay day lenders, irresponsible banks, and for-profit schools have made a profit off of the sacrifices of our men and women in uniform. 

As more have served, more unhelpful products and services have been marketed to 

our troops and veterans. 

I am hopeful that strong, effective oversight of such products and improved financial literacy programs can help us ensure that military families face as few financial 

challenges as possible. 

I look forward to your testimony. 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF HOLLISTER K. PETRAEUS 

ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF SERVICEMEMBER AFFAIRS, CONSUMER FINANCIAL

PROTECTION BUREAU

NOVEMBER 3, 2011 

Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Shelby, and distinguished Members of the 

Committee: thank you for the opportunity to speak with you today about the Office 

of Servicemember Affairs at the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), and 

the role we play in the financial well-being of servicemembers and their families. 

To tell you a little about my qualifications to talk about military issues: I’ve been 

a part of the military community my entire life. My father served in the Army for 

over 36 years, fighting in both World War II and Vietnam. Two of my brothers also 

served in Vietnam, and, of course, my husband just retired from the Army after 37 

years of service. And I’m a military mom, as well. 

In my role as a military family member, I have seen the problems that can arise 

for our servicemembers who may experience ‘‘too much month and not enough 

money.’’ I have also seen first-hand the devastating impact financial scams and 

predatory lending can have on servicemembers and their families. Unfortunately 

there are still too many young troops learning about wise spending through hard 

experience and years of paying off expensive debt. 

As an Army wife I spent a lot of years—over 20—as a volunteer on the Army 

posts where we were assigned. During the first year of the Iraq war, when my husband was the commander of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) at Ft. Campbell, Kentucky, I served as the Division’s Senior Family Readiness Group Advisor. 

In that capacity, I saw the unforeseen financial problems that came with deployment, and I worked on those issues with Department of Defense (DoD) officials as 

well as local, State, and national legislators. 

A year later, I was invited to become the Director of BBB Military Line, a program of the Council of Better Business Bureaus providing consumer education and 

advocacy for servicemembers and their families—a position that I held for 6 years, 

from 2004 to 2010. While with the BBB, I made on-site visits to military units all 

over the country: learning about the consumer issues that impacted them, giving 

presentations on consumer scams, and working to establish local BBB-military relationships. I guided development of 6 teen and adult financial workshops taught to 

more than 20,000 individuals in military communities around the United States. I 

also wrote a monthly military consumer newsletter—and it was an education for me 

each month to research and write the articles that went into that newsletter. 

In January 2011, based on my knowledge of the military community and my experience with military consumer issues, I was asked to join the CFPB and set up the 

Office of Servicemember Affairs. As you know, when the Dodd-Frank Wall Street 

Reform and Consumer Protection Act (Dodd-Frank Act) established the CFPB, it included a mandate that the CFPB establish an Office of Servicemember Affairs 

(OSA). The OSA is responsible for developing and implementing initiatives to educate and empower servicemembers to make better informed decisions regarding conVerDate Nov 24 2008 15:43 Jun 01, 2012 Jkt 048080 PO 00000 Frm 00034 Fmt 6621 Sfmt 6621 L:\HEARINGS 2011\11-03B DISTILLER\110311.TXT JASON
31 

sumer financial products and services, to monitor their complaints about consumer 

financial products and services—and the CFPB’s and other Federal or State agency 

responses to those complaints—and to coordinate the efforts of Federal and State 

agencies to improve consumer protection measures for military families. The CFPB 

is also authorized to enter into agreements with the DoD to carry out OSA’s work 

and to make sure that OSA’s goals are achieved. 

We’ve already signed our first agreement with DoD: a Joint Statement of Principles with the Judge Advocate Generals (JAGs) of all the services: Army, Navy, Air 

Force, Marine Corps, and Coast Guard. We wanted to work out a mechanism for 

sharing complaints made to the CFPB with the JAGs (and vice versa), and we felt 

it was important to detail how we would work the exchange of information between 

us. We don’t want any military consumer complaints to fall through the cracks! 

We’ve also set up a working agreement with the Department of Veterans Affairs 

(VA). We are now referring to the VA Home Loan Program any military personnel 

or veterans who call the CFPB’s hot line claiming that they are in danger of foreclosure, even those who do not have VA-guaranteed loans. The VA has a very good 

track record of helping military homeowners avoid foreclosures and a thorough 

knowledge of what benefits might be available to assist military personnel or veterans in danger of foreclosure, even those with a non-VA loan. So this seemed to 

us to be a very exciting and helpful collaboration. 

To circle back to the OSA’s educational mission, although I have a good insider’s 

knowledge of the military community, I think that it’s important for us to get out 

and hear from military families directly about what the financial issues are that 

concern them the most. Those trips help us tailor our education and outreach efforts 

to the most pressing issues. I’ve been to many military installations since I started 

my job in January 2011. In fact, the second week on the job I went to Lackland 

Air Force Base in Texas to hold a roundtable, and I haven’t stopped since, visiting 

bases in California, North Carolina, Kentucky, Virginia, and Illinois, to name a few. 

I’ve also met with the Adjutants General and their National Guard troops and families in Oklahoma, Ohio, Illinois, and Indiana to hear about their particular issues, 

which may be a little different from those of active-duty troops since they spend 

much of their time as civilians and don’t have an infrastructure of military-installation-based support like the active-duty community does. 

So what are the issues that have come up? Well, a big one concerns home ownership. Owning a home of your own is the American dream, and military families 

want that, too. But the housing meltdown here in the U.S. has hit military families 

hard. Some of the States that were most affected in the housing crisis are ones that 

have a large number of military stationed there. Declining home values are putting 

military families between a rock and a hard place when they owe more than their 

house is worth and they receive Permanent Change of Station, or PCS, orders. Often 

they can’t sell their home for enough to pay off the mortgage; they can’t rent it out 

for enough to cover their mortgage payments; they’re told they can’t get a loan modification or short sale because they’re not yet delinquent; and they can’t refinance 

for a good rate because it will no longer be considered their principal residence once 

they leave. We’ve heard of a number of cases where the servicemember has opted 

to go alone to the new duty station, an option that is pretty tough when you consider that he or she may have just come back from a deployment and the family 

is now facing another separation—this time for purely financial reasons. 

I’ve been talking a lot about this issue to people in Washington, and we are starting to see some movement to try to make it easier for servicemembers to get help. 

The Department of the Treasury has issued new guidance for its Home Affordable 

Foreclosure Alternatives (HAFA) program making it more accessible for those with 

PCS orders, and Government-sponsored enterprises like Fannie Mae and Freddie 

Mac are tweaking their own guidance. There have also been various letters on the 

importance of this issue, from your colleagues here on the Hill as well as the banking industry. 

Another big issue we’ve been hearing about concerns military education benefits 

and for-profit colleges—an issue that impacts military spouses, too, now that they 

can use the Post-9/11 GI Bill. Because of a quirk in the Higher Education Act, military education money is very appealing to for-profit colleges, because it counts towards a requirement that for-profit colleges get at least 10 percent of their revenue 

from sources other than Title IV education funds administered by the Department 

of Education. This has led to some cases of very aggressive marketing by for-profits 

schools to military personnel and their families—and these schools often market not 

only the educational programs themselves, but also expensive private student loans. 

A key focus at the CFPB is to be sure that students understand these loans—and 

whether they will really be able to repay them. There are also serious questions 

32 

1The Lackland Airman & Family Readiness Center (802d Force Support Squadron) gathered 

debt information on airmen arriving at the Technical Training Group at Lackland Air Force 

Base following Basic Military Training from 1997 to 2009. The average debt increased from 

$7,565 in CY 1997 to $10,431 in CY 2008, the last full year the data was collected. A total of 

109,048 airmen were surveyed during the period. 

about whether the education you get at many of these institutions justifies their 

high price. 

Another issue, and one that always applies when it comes to the military, is the 

issue of car loans! Military personnel love their wheels, and they don’t always go 

shopping for them in the right places. I’m sure many of you are familiar with the 

typical strip of used-car dealers that cluster around the gates of military installations. Servicemembers are often sold clunkers at inflated prices with high financing 

charges, and when the original clunker breaks down, they sometimes take an offer 

to roll the existing debt into another loan for yet another clunker—which may also 

break down. There is also the issue of spot financing, where they are allowed to 

drive away with a car with a promise of certain financing, and then get called back 

a week or two later to be told that the financing fell through and they will have 

to pay more. Although the CFPB will only have supervisory authority over the auto 

dealers who write their own loans (what are often called ‘‘buy here, pay here’’), the 

Federal Trade Commission and the Federal Reserve are required by Dodd-Frank to 

coordinate with us on military auto issues, and we have already started to do that. 

Another thing we’ve heard about fairly often from military families is employment 

challenges for military spouses. Those spouses who are in professions that require 

a license or certification have told us how difficult and expensive it is to get or 

renew their professional license at each new duty station. And I can testify that 

military spouses move a lot! My husband and I moved 24 times in 37 years, in fact. 

Also, if the spouse is self-employed it’s hard to keep a client base when constantly 

relocating. And many installations happen to be in rural areas where available jobs 

may be few and far between. Those are problems I may not be able to solve, but 

I can certainly raise awareness about them as I work with Federal and State agencies. And I know that the Department of Defense is working to improve the employment possibilities for military spouses through their new Military Spouse Employment Program. 

Last but not least, a continuing issue for the military is the general issue of indebtedness. Many servicemembers don’t enter the military debt free. In fact, on a 

visit to Texas we were told that the average Air Force recruit arrives at Lackland 

Air Force Base for basic training over $10,000 in debt! 1 Once in the service, military 

personnel don’t make a whole lot of money, especially at the beginning, but it’s a 

guaranteed paycheck in this time of economic uncertainty, and it’s subject to garnishment. That has led to a whole lot of businesses looking to lend money to 

servicemembers for various products (which are often overpriced to start with). This 

can be the kiosk at the mall selling high-priced electronics at even higher financing, 

the rent-to-own furniture store, or the latest installment loans that manage to exist 

just outside the definition of payday loans as written in the rule implementing the 

Military Lending Act. 

I’ll give you an example of the type of installment lender I just mentioned. When 

we recently put a notice in the Federal Register seeking information about financial 

services provided to servicemembers and their families, one respondee told us about 

an Internet lender that caters to the military and will loan up to 40 percent of a 

servicemember’s take-home pay, without a credit check, for an interest rate as high 

as 584 percent APR. The lender specifically mentions on its Web site that it is not 

required to comply with the 36-percent APR cap of the Military Lending Act because 

it offers an open-ended revolving line of credit versus the closed-end credit products 

governed by the Military Lending Act. And it tells the servicemembers who go to 

its site: ‘‘We believe that your membership in the armed forces entitles you to special treatment.’’ ‘‘We speak your language.’’ 

But when servicemembers get behind in their payments these lenders are often 

very quick to turn their debt over to debt collectors. And what we’ve heard leads 

us to believe that a number of these collectors may not comply with the Fair Debt 

Practices Collection Act. They may call the servicemember’s home and unit 20 or 

30 times a day, threaten them with the Uniform Code of Military Justice, and tell 

them they’ll get them busted in rank or have their security clearance revoked if they 

don’t pay up. We’ve even heard of a debt collector harassing a surviving spouse of 

a servicemember killed in action, insisting that she had to use the money from his 

death gratuity to pay the debt immediately. 

Again, it will be a big part of my job to educate servicemembers about their rights 

under existing consumer financial laws, and to give them the information they need 

33 

1 Bonnie Spain is the Executive Director/CEO of Rushmore Consumer Credit Resource Center 

and has been with the agency for over 25 years, serving as director for more than 21 years. 

Rushmore Consumer Credit Resource Center has two divisions: Consumer Credit Counseling 

Service of the Black Hills and the American Center for Credit Education. Rushmore Consumer 

Credit Resource Center is a member of the National Foundation for Credit Counseling (NFCC), 

a HUD-approved housing counseling agency, an approved practitioner of the National Industry 

Standards for Homeownership Education & Counseling, accredited by the Council on Accreditation, approved by the Executive Office of the U.S. Trustees and is a United Way agency. 

The National Foundation for Credit Counseling (NFCC) is the Nation’s largest and longestserving national nonprofit credit counseling organization. The NFCC’s mission is to promote the 

national agenda for financially responsible behavior, and to build capacity for its members to 

deliver the highest-quality financial education and counseling services. NFCC members annually 

help more than three million consumers through nearly 800 community-based offices nationwide. 2Money in Motion programs are sponsored by the South Dakota Community Investment 

Fund. This fund is made possible through the generosity of the following credit unions: Air 

Guard, Consumers, Dakota Plains, Dakota Territory, East River, Good Samaritan, HB Telco, 

Healthcare Plus, Interlakes, Med5, Minuteman, Northern Hills, Rapid City Telco, Service First, 

Sioux Falls Bell, Sioux Falls, SODES, and Mid America Credit Union Association. 

to make wise financial decisions. Continuing financial education should have a central role in protecting the financial future of military families, and I have had very 

productive meetings on the subject already with Robert Gordon, the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Military Community and Family Policy, who oversees 

financial literacy programs within the Department of Defense. No amount of prosecutors or Government agencies can stop every scammer or predatory lender, so, in 

addition to enforcing the law and writing rules as needed, the CFPB must also provide the right tools and information to military personnel and their families so that 

they recognize the red flags of a bad deal or scam and make sound financial choices. 

And I will also continue to work with you and other Federal and State agencies to 

help identify effective consumer protection measures that will work on their behalf. 

In conclusion, the OSA is already working hard to ensure that servicemembers 

and their families, who devote their lives to protecting our Nation, have a strong 

advocate to help protect them from financial threats. We will make every effort to 

achieve the goal of every military family being a financially educated family, armed 

with knowledge of how to avoid scams and poor financial decisions, protected by 

consumer laws as needed, and willing and able to invest towards long-term financial 

goals. 

Thank you for the opportunity to testify before the Committee. 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF BONNIE SPAIN 

EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR/CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, RUSHMORE CONSUMER CREDIT

RESOURCE CENTER

NOVEMBER 3, 2011 

Introduction 

Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Shelby, and Members of the Committee, 

thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today. 

In my testimony, I will address some of the financial challenges that military personnel and their families face. I will also explain what our organization does to assist them. Further, I will describe how additional funding and services could benefit 

military families. 

Our agency has been providing housing and credit counseling and financial education services to western South Dakota for more than 37 years. We also develop 

and publish financial education programs. Our seven programs have reached more 

than 1.4 million consumers nationwide. 1

Our agency in Rapid City also serves nearby Ellsworth Air Force Base. The Ellsworth Air Force Base Airmen and Family Readiness Center invites us to provide 

financial education programs onsite two to three times each month. The programs 

we offer them include Money in Motion, a basic 2-hour financial education program; 

Credit When Credit is Due, a 6-hour credit education program; and Make Your 

Move—A Guide to Homeownership, which is a 6-hour homebuyer education program. We provide other programs if the base requests them. 2

The Airman and Family Readiness Center refers airmen and women directly to 

our agency for housing counseling if they are struggling with their mortgage payments, and for our debt management program, if they need additional help handling 

their debts. Occasionally, a servicemember may come to our agency for pre-filing 

counseling or debtor education for bankruptcy services, if necessary. 

34 

Problems Military Families Encounter 

Military home ownership often comes with complications 

When it comes to housing, military families face challenges that civilians don’t. 

When a serviceman or woman receives transfer orders, their family must move. If 

their current house doesn’t sell, military personnel may leave their family behind 

or leave the unsold home empty. 

In a good economy, it may take three months to sell a home, but in today’s economy, it can take years. If a military family cannot sell their home, they are often 

separated and put under a tremendous amount financial and emotional stress. Either way, military families can end up with two housing payments—one for the 

home they are trying to sell and one for the new place where they are living. 

On the other hand, civilians can typically choose whether to move or relocate. A 

civilian family has more choices, perhaps negotiating with a potential employer to 

move after they sell their home, or choosing not to move at all. A civilian isn’t under 

the tight timeframe a military member is and therefore, a civilian may have more 

time to sell his home and move. 

Agencies such as ours that provide housing and financial counseling and financial 

education play a critical role in helping military families. This counseling and education helps military personnel and their families cope with difficult transitions demanded of them while they are serving our Nation. 

For example, our agency helped a 21-year-old airman who was discharged from 

the military after becoming disabled. He was hoping to get a short sale on his house 

so he could move back to his home State of Rhode Island. After calling several Realtors, the airman could not find one who would list his home. All the Realtors he 

spoke to said there were too many problems with lenders not accepting short sales, 

and they weren’t willing to put the time and work into a deal that wasn’t likely 

to go through. 

Before listing his house, he was advised to find a lender that would agree to the 

short sale. At this point, the airman came to our office. Our Certified Consumer 

Credit Counselor contacted his lender and convinced the lender to agree to a short 

sale. Because of our intervention, the airman was able to get a Realtor to list his 

home. 

Another serviceman was retiring; he and his family were moving back to Florida. 

He had a very difficult time selling his home and was referred to our agency. Our 

Certified Consumer Credit Counselor helped him get the lender to agree to a short 

sale. The lender, however, refused to forgive the second mortgage on the home and 

required the serviceman to sign a new note for $10,500. The lender also required 

the serviceman to use his vehicles as collateral since he could no longer use his 

home for collateral. But the serviceman owed more on the loans than the vehicles 

were worth. 

Even though the serviceman was facing a number of difficult financial circumstances, he has been able to work through them because of the help he has received from our agency. By using our Debt Management Program, he has almost 

repaid his debts in full. 

Predatory lenders, debt settlement companies claim to help, but cause harm 

Military personnel are always under pressure to maintain good finances and credit; their jobs can depend upon it. If a serviceman or woman has accounts in collections or is facing bankruptcy, these financial issues can cause security clearance 

problems that ultimately could destroy a military career. The unique financial pressures they face make servicemen and women particularly vulnerable to lenders who 

charge high rates of interest. 

Predatory lenders, for example, continue to target the military—in spite of protections that the Military Lending Act is supposed to provide. Often, these lenders 

charge more than the 36 percent interest cap. This is the case for an airman who 

turned to the Ellsworth Air Force Base Airmen and Family Readiness Center for 

help with his five payday loans. 

He’d applied for four of these payday loans online, and only one loan was from 

a local company. All were charging interest rates higher than 36 percent. Payday 

lenders call these transactions open-ended, treating them like revolving lines of 

credit, in order to bypass the law. The airman sought the help of the legal assistance office at the base. Unfortunately, the companies refused to change their interest rate, and the airman’s only other recourse was to sue the companies. However, 

the base legal assistance office can’t represent the airman if he decides to sue the 

payday lenders. If he chooses to sue, the airman would have to hire an attorney. 

Payday lenders know that people who borrow from them don’t have the money to 

hire an attorney. 

35 

Payday lenders also count on the fact that prospective borrowers won’t ask questions. On many payday lending sites, such as militaryfinancial.com, there is no 

physical business location listed anywhere on the site. There is no location listed 

in their disclosures, privacy policy or ‘‘contact us’’ links. There is no disclosure anywhere of the cost of loans militaryfinancial.com provides. Borrowers have no idea 

who the company is, where it is located, or what they’ll be charged for a loan, but 

they are immediately asked to provide personal information. For example, the very 

first question militaryfinancial.com asks is for the borrower to provide his or her 

Social Security number on the Web site and on any documentation they submit. 

One client who got a payday loan online had no idea the money came from Croatia. The client had a difficult time getting anyone to respond to his requests for 

information. In the meantime, the company had access to his bank account and continued to take payments directly from his account. The client finally had to close 

his bank account. 

When servicemembers are knowledgeable about their finances, they are less likely 

to fall victim to predatory lenders and schemes designed to take advantage of them. 

The following story illustrates one type of financial pitfall that our clients can 

face. A former car salesman said that one of the first questions he would ask potential buyers is whether the buyers knew if they had good credit. The buyers’ answer 

determined the offer they would receive from the dealership. If buyers had not seen 

their credit report or didn’t know their credit score, the salesman excused himself 

and said he would pull their credit report. 

Instead of actually pulling a credit report while he’s gone, however, the salesman 

simply left for several minutes. The salesman then returned and told buyers there 

were issues with their credit report, but assured them they could still buy a car. 

The salesman quoted the buyers a monthly payment, making them believe this was 

the best rate they could receive. The buyers have no idea they would end up paying 

a higher rate of interest than necessary, and the salesman earned a bigger commission. 

Unfortunately, our agency sees many servicemembers who seek financial services, 

only to find that the help they receives pushes them further into debt. Debt settlement is particularly destructive. Servicemembers seek the help of debt settlement 

companies, not knowing that these companies can do them more harm than good. 

In one case, a servicewoman had paid $1,500 to a debt settlement company before 

the Airman Family Readiness Center advised her to stop making payments. Of 

course, she did not have $1,500 to lose, but thankfully she didn’t lose any more. 

One of the worst examples of problems caused by debt settlement was the case 

of a civilian family of six who came to us in April. By the time they came to our 

agency, they had paid more than $6,000 in fees to a debt settlement firm; only $600 

of that had actually been aside by the firm for debt negotiations. By October, they 

would have paid the debt settlement firm more than $10,200, but the firm would 

have only set aside $1,500 to settle the family’s debts. We are currently working 

with this family so they can repay their debts and rebuild their finances. Military 

or civilian, people who are already struggling financially cannot afford to pay for 

services that never happen. 

More financial problems, striking clients of all ages 

Our client demographic is shifting and so are the financial difficulties these clients are encountering. Several years ago, our average clients were young couples in 

their thirties raising children. Traditionally, that was a time in their lives when 

their expenses were high, but their incomes were lower. Our client base is now 

much more diverse. We work with clients in their 20s who are often struggling to 

pay back their school loans; young parents raising small children; couples who are 

raising teens, while also taking care of their own aging parents; and couples at or 

near retirement who are struggling. 

Frequently, our clients find themselves facing multiple financial problems at once. 

For instance, a young man leaving the service came to our office because he was 

in the process of filing bankruptcy. He told his counselor that he had made almost 

every possible financial mistake. His initial problems began when he was using the 

services of payday lenders while he was still in the military. Later, he got a divorce, 

which further disrupted his finances. 

Then, he agreed to let an elderly woman handle his finances while he was stationed overseas. The woman, who seemed trustworthy, spent his money instead of 

paying his bills for him. To make matters worse, he let a friend drive a rental car 

and they had an accident. The rental insurance did not cover the friend, so the insurance company sued the serviceman for damages. 

Like this serviceman, most people filing for bankruptcy do so because of multiple 

financial problems. Before they file for bankruptcy, most people have never taken 

36 

3The following credit unions gave our agency support to send financial education materials 

to Iraq: Aberdeen, Air Guard, Black Hills, Consumers, Dakota Plains, Dakota Territory, East 

River, Empire Corporate, Healthcare Plus, Huron Telco, Interlakes, Minuteman Community, 

Northern Hills, Rapid City Medical, Service First, Sioux Falls, Sioux Falls Bell, SODES, and 

Turtle Creek. 

a financial education course. Financial counseling and education are key to helping 

people overcome financial crises. 

People often lack the knowledge to handle their finances successfully 

Unfortunately, financial matters can often be confusing, and many consumers 

don’t have the information they need to make wise decisions. A young airman or 

woman, for example, might seek a friend’s advice, which ultimately turns out to be 

incorrect or inappropriate for their situation. What they don’t know leads them to 

make financial decisions that they later regret. 

Financial education is key to helping consumers protect themselves and their 

money. We know that financial education works. After 25 years of working with people in financial duress, I can unequivocally tell you that the most important thing 

people can do to get their finances under control is to complete a financial education 

program appropriate for their needs. 

Counseling is very helpful and provides insight, and a plan, but counselors can’t 

impart everything they know to their client in one or two sessions. On the other 

hand, a good financial education program provides information people can use to 

make better financial decisions now and in the future. 

All of our financial education programs are relevant to the financial issues people 

are experiencing today. We teach a program called Money in Motion twice a month 

at Ellsworth Air Force Base. We also teach Credit When Credit is Due and Make 

Your Move—A Guide to Homeownership at the base. All of these programs are updated to reflect our ever-changing financial environment. 

Some of our programs are uniquely tailored to fit the needs of military and civilian clients in our community. In 2009, our agency developed an assistance program 

to help families qualify for forbearances and loan modifications. With United Way 

funding, we provide direct assistance to qualifying homeowners to help them save 

their homes; specifically, we have used $68,171 to help 32 families save their homes. 

Per family, this is a cost of about $2,100 to intervene in homeowners’ lives when 

they urgently need our help. 

Our financial education programs have benefited military personnel nationwide. 

In addition to Ellsworth Air Force Base, our programs have been used at Langley 

AFB, Mountain Home AFB, Fairchild AFB, Tinker AFB, Sheppard AFB, Shaw AFB 

and Randolph AFB, Virginia Air National Guard, Florida Air National Guard, Tennessee National Guard, and Virginia National Guard. 

Our financial education programs also have reached troops overseas. In May, we 

received a request from a former client who was serving in Afghanistan. He asked 

us to send Credit When Credit is Due books so Marines could learn more about 

managing their finances; we shipped a box of books to him. In 2007, our agency received a request to provide Credit When Credit is Due and Money in Motion to 

troops in Iraq. With the support of several local and regional credit unions, we were 

able to provide books to the troops in Iraq. 3

When military personnel themselves ask for financial education, that speaks volumes about their need for information and about the quality of our programs. 

What More Can We Do To Help Military Families? 

To provide our financial education programs for the military, we need to seek 

grant money. Unfortunately, grant funding is becoming more difficult to find. 

What’s more, Family Support Centers are only able to offer a few approved programs. 

I would like to recommend the following actions that could give our military personnel and families the support they need and deserve. 

For the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB): 

• Close the loopholes on payday lenders, making it impossible for them to charge 

military personnel more than 36 percent for a payday loan. • Require online businesses to list a physical business location and to list their 

fees, or range of fees, before being able to collect personal information such as 

a Social Security number. 

• Strengthen regulation of for-profit debt settlement companies so that consumers 

are protected from abusive and predatory debt settlement practices. 

• Apply the same Federal standards, regulations and consumer protections to 

nonprofit credit counseling agencies and for-profit credit counseling agencies. 

37 

For Congress and the CFPB: 

• Continue supporting financial education for military personnel. All Readiness 

Centers, Family Support Centers and bases should be authorized to use their 

operating funds to purchase the materials they know are most helpful and relevant to their military personnel. 

• Require homebuyer education for first-time homebuyers, as well as those using 

specialized loan products. The housing industry is an integral part of our economy. Many consumers may have avoided foreclosure, or other problems, if they 

had been well-educated before they signed home loan documents. Having qualified buyers seeking homes they can afford will help to revitalize our troubled 

economy. 

For Congress: 

• Support and fund HUD homebuyer education. Buying a home is a complicated 

process. The average consumer simply has no way of understanding the details 

of the home-buying process without taking a comprehensive homebuyer education course. This is particularly true if an individual or family is new to the 

area. Military personnel who transfer to a different location, for example, would 

benefit from homebuyer education. 

• Support and fund HUD-approved housing counseling. Military personnel need 

the assistance of trained and knowledgeable foreclosure specialists to help them 

find resolutions for their housing issues. 

In closing, on behalf of the Rushmore Consumer Credit Resource Center and, 

more importantly, on behalf of the men and women who are serving our Nation and 

who come to us for financial counseling, education and help, thank you for this opportunity to tell you their stories and their needs. I would be happy to respond to 

any questions you may have. 

38 


11031101.eps
39 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF ADMIRAL CHARLES S. (STEVE) ABBOT 

U.S. NAVY (RET.), PRESIDENT, NAVY-MARINE CORPS RELIEF SOCIETY

NOVEMBER 3, 2011 

Mr. Chairman, Senators, good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to appear before the Committee to discuss the conditions which military servicemembers 

face in the financial marketplace. The information which I provide to the Committee 

comes from my perspective as President of the Navy-Marine Corps Relief Society, 

a private, nonprofit charity which supports active duty and retired Marines and 

Sailors, and has been doing so for over 100 years. Last year, in 2010, we saw 73,000 

individual Sailors and Marines in our offices around the world, some of them more 

than once. When you count the repeat clients, it adds up to a total of 100,000 cases 

in 2010, and we are on that same pace this year. That amounts to almost one out 

of every five active duty Sailors and Marines, or 20 percent of the force in just a 

single year. 

Although it is always great to wear a military uniform, being a junior enlisted 

man or woman in these recessionary times, especially if you have a family, is tough 

sledding. While the servicemember’s employment may be stable, many military 

spouses have lost jobs in the civilian economy. These families are turning to the Society in record numbers. The financial assistance we provided in 2010 is the greatest 

since 1993 when the size of the force was significantly larger. 

The Military Lending Act (MLA), which became effective in October 2007, has 

dramatically curtailed payday loans to active duty servicemembers—our annual assistance to those stuck in the payday loan trap went from a high of $1.4 million 

in 2006 to just $168K thus far in 2011. That is very good news, and we credit the 

MLA, and improved personal financial management education and training. But the 

Military Lending Act was implemented on a limited scope. Financial institutions 

have found loopholes in the regulations and new predatory lending practices have 

arisen which continue to victimize our clients. Before my visit this morning, I contacted all 51 of the Society’s Directors around the world to ask what practices they 

are seeing that send their clients into a downward spiral of debt. 

Examples Illustrate the Problems 

• Fort Worth, TX. Assisted a retired Navy E-5 with rent, food, and utilities because he used his retirement check to repay a payday loan. He had borrowed 

$950 at an APR of 277.65 percent. His finance charge was $216.80. 

• Camp Lejeune, NC. Helped a Marine Lance Corporal with food and utilities 

since his paycheck had been withheld due to overdrafts and associated fees. 

• Newport, RI. Assisted a Navy E-5 seven times with loans totaling $3,652. Most 

recently he got a high interest loan from one of the on line lenders to repair 

his car ‘‘because it was available, quick and immediate.’’ 

• Norfolk, VA. Helped a Navy E6 suffering from a 365 percent motor vehicle line 

of credit with a title loan company in Virginia Beach. Sailor had title to the 

1998 Nissan Maxima, was paying $200 per month on a $1,000 loan and had 

recently filed Chapter 13 Bankruptcy. 

• Quantico, VA. A Navy E2, seen one month after his 21st Birthday, with a wife 

and one child, had overdraft protection payments due after every payday. When 

seen by our office, the member had six credit cards, one loan consolidation debt 

and one personal loan. Society helped with a loan for food, gas and diapers, as 

well as financial education and referrals for more in-depth counseling. 

• Corpus Christi, TX. An active Duty E-5 with a wife and two small children was 

in a cycle of overdraft that he had been unsuccessful in resolving following a 

high interest Internet loan. The family went into their overdraft when his child 

required medical care at a facility in another town, but the distance was not 

far enough for Tricare to cover travel expenses. By the time the couple sought 

assistance, they had suffered four back to back paydays on which $500 was 

taken by the bank to zero overdraft funds and fees. We helped the family with 

basic living expense and provided financial counseling. 

Most Egregious Trends 

• Banks and credit unions on and near military bases continue to charge exorbitant and multiple fees associated with overdraft protection and direct deposit 

advance loans. With an overdraft, the bank agrees to cover a transaction despite lack of funds in the account, charges a fixed fee and takes payment out 

of the next deposit to the servicemember’s account before other banking transactions. This problem is compounded by the common practice of processing 

40 

checks from largest amount to smallest in order to charge additional fees. Common nonsufficient (overdraft) fees range from $25 to $35 per transaction. 

• Online predatory lending is hard to monitor. Many evade State regulation by 

being offshore, hide behind anonymous domain registrations and have no physical address. 

• By structuring loans for a longer payback period and making them open-ended 

instead of close-ended, and for a larger amount, banks and other lending institutions offer installment loans that avoid the 36 APR cap instituted with the 

Military Lending Act and legally charge as much as 500 percent APR. 

• Today’s young military families are technically savvy but not necessarily financially savvy. A military lifestyle adds additional challenges with frequent family 

separations and relocations. This can impact spouse employment and education 

opportunities. 

Recommendations 

• Continue to improve financial education and consumer awareness. 

• Plug loopholes in the laws and regulations governing predatory lending practices. 

• Stimulate additional reasonable cost alternatives to predatory loans. 

• Direct local senior military leaders to urge local banking and credit union executives to alter abusive banking practices. 

• Extend the protections of the Military Lending Act to retirees and to veterans. 

• Banks and credit unions located on military installations should be held to a 

higher standard of service, offering military families, including military retirees, 

lower fees and better protection from predatory lending practices. They should 

also offer financial education to inexperienced consumers before they commit to 

loan contracts and agreements. Adopting better business practices would go a 

long way toward ameliorating if not fixing the problems that these 

servicemembers are experiencing. Some institutions are moving in that direction and I applaud those steps. I appreciate this opportunity to meet with you 

today and thank you for the work you do to empower and protect 

servicemembers, their families, and veterans in the consumer financial marketplace. 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL KEVIN BERGNER 

U.S. ARMY (RET.), EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND CHIEF ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER, 

UNITED SERVICES AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION

NOVEMBER 3, 2011 

1. Introduction 

Chairman Johnson, Ranking Member Shelby, and Members of the Committee, I 

am Kevin Bergner, Executive Vice President and Chief Administrative Officer of 

USAA, the United Services Automobile Association. As a retired U.S. Army Major 

General and 30-year veteran who served [six] overseas tours of duty, I have firsthand experience with the financial needs and challenges of our servicemembers, 

their families, and veterans. I want to thank you for holding this important hearing 

and for giving USAA the privilege of testifying. USAA was founded in 1922 by 25 

U.S. Army officers who joined together to insure each others’ automobiles because 

they were deemed to be too risky by traditional insurers because of their transient 

and perilous careers. Our core mission, and the manner in which we have always 

conducted our business, honors our history and legacy—rendering USAA uniquely 

positioned to empower and protect America’s servicemembers, their families, and 

veterans in the consumer financial marketplace. 

Today, USAA is proud to serve more than 8 million active-duty servicemembers, 

veterans, and military family members. We are a membership-based association 

open to all who have honorably served in the U.S. military, as well as their families. 

We support the financial security of our members and their families with a full 

range of highly competitive financial products and services, including insurance, 

banking, credit, and investment resources. Our core values of service, honesty, loyalty, and integrity drive our business. 

Our efforts have paid off in member satisfaction and loyalty. Year after year, 

USAA receives top customer service rankings from leading independent research 

firms. We have a 98 percent member retention rate and 97 percent member satisfaction rate. In fact, 94 percent of our members plan to stay with us for life. 

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2. USAA Services Are Tailored to Military Families’ Financial Needs 

Servicemembers, who are willing to risk their lives in service to our country, deserve our highest respect and our strongest endeavors to support their efforts and 

to accommodate the special burdens placed on them and their families. While 

servicemembers and their families need the same financial products and services as 

other consumers—including insurance, home mortgages, checking and savings accounts, investment products, financial planning, and retirement resources—they 

also face unique challenges in the consumer financial marketplace. Military events, 

such as deployments, involve stresses and financial consequences with no equivalent 

in the civilian world. Even when they are not deployed overseas, servicemembers 

are often required to be highly mobile due to temporary relocations, changes of duty 

station, or other travel in connection with, or in support of, our national security. 

Moreover, military careers may leave servicemembers with limited time to manage 

their financial affairs, especially when serving in combat situations. 

We strive to provide financial stability and support for military families, so that 

our members can focus on serving our country. To address these unique challenges, 

USAA offers a full suite of financial products, tools, and advice tailored to the needs 

of military families, and we are a market leader in developing ‘‘best practices’’ for 

empowering and protecting servicemembers and veterans. Along those lines, I would 

like to highlight for the Committee, in more detail, some specific examples. 

A. Products and Services for Military Milestones 

USAA has found that it is crucial to address military milestones when developing 

financial products for the military community. The way in which we serve our members and help them identify the financial products they need is based on significant 

life events. Included in those life events are milestones that impact all customers: 

marriage, divorce, birth of a child, etc. But, at USAA, we also focus heavily on life 

events that are unique to military service: deployment, life-altering injury, separation from the military, permanent change of station, to name a few. This specialized 

focus on life events—from a military perspective—is crucial to identifying and meeting the unique needs of the military community. 

(i) Deployments 

Active-duty servicemembers may experience multiple overseas tours of duty during their careers, including deployments to combat zones. We have seen a spike in 

those deployments since 2001, rendering this one of the most critical life events facing servicemembers and their families today. The financial issues and changes relating to deployments—and redeployments—are multifaceted and challenging—even to 

the savviest consumer. To help ease the burden and ensure that each of our deployed members is prepared financially, we offer the ‘‘USAA Deployment Kit’’ to 

help servicemembers and their families prepare and organize for deployment. We 

also have specially trained employees whose sole purpose is to ensure that our military members and their families are able to seamlessly transition into deployment. 

These employees will help teach—to the extent necessary—soldiers and families 

how to manage their finances during a deployment. This includes ensuring the 

spouse’s access to all accounts; setting up automatic bill pay, if required; arranging 

for powers of attorney, as needed; adjusting insurance premiums for vehicles that 

will not be driven during the deployment; changing insurance for household belongings that will be stored or moved during deployment, and helping servicemembers 

manage their new financial picture, which often includes hazardous duty pay and 

deployment tax relief. Active-duty soldiers who contact us from Afghanistan and 

Iraq are transferred immediately to those specialized USAA representatives. Because deployed servicemembers may have limited access to computers and telephones, as well as limited time, these specialized resources are critical. 

In addition to the specialized customer care we provide in this vein, USAA also 

offers financial products and services specifically designed to protect the financial 

interests of our deployed servicemembers and their families. For example: 

• We offer life insurance without the standard ‘‘wartime exclusion’’ to 

servicemembers, including those that are deployed or facing deployment in combat zones. 

• Some of our insurance products provide additional coverage for personal property that may be abandoned, destroyed, or damaged while a servicemember is 

deployed overseas in wartime. 

• We reimburse foreign transaction fees for debit and credit cards. 

• USAA often goes beyond the standards set under the Servicemembers Civil Relief Act to make interest rate accommodations on credit cards, auto loans, and 

other payments for deployed servicemembers. 

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• For our credit card holders who fall behind on payments during deployment, we 

provide options for long-term workout programs and ad hoc settlements. 

• Finally, USAA offers innovative financial tools and specialized customer service 

resources to assist deployed servicemembers. For example, we seek to deliver 

documents via email or our secure Web site, and our representatives are available 24 hours a day to assist active-duty members with most needs. 

• In addition to providing a full suite of online and telephone services, USAA was 

an early adopter in providing bill pay and bank deposit tools for mobile phones 

and iPads. There are nearly 15,000 logins through USAA Mobile every hour. 

These benefit all our members—but are especially crucial to our deployed members. 

(ii) Change-of-Station Moves and Overseas Assignments 

Frequent relocations, often on short notice, are another common component of the 

military lifestyle. Moreover, members of the military often complete at least two or 

three overseas tours during a full career. Servicemember mobility creates special financial challenges. Those challenges have been exacerbated by the volatile housing 

market, as many servicemembers find themselves forced to move from homes in 

which they have little or no equity. At USAA we stand ready to address this and 

other unique needs brought on by repeated relocations. For example: 

• We make great efforts to assist all members who encounter credit difficulties 

and financial hardships. We strive to identify solutions that allow our members 

to remain in their homes, including member assistance programs, such as, loan 

extensions, modifications and short sales. 

• Specifically, when members who are distressed homeowners are not able to 

meet their financial obligations for USAA serviced loans, USAA works to identify foreclosure alternatives. We provide payment deferrals and loan modifications appropriate to the circumstances to help keep soldiers and their families 

in their homes. When members are in an unfavorable equity position, we help 

them navigate the short-sale process and avoid the pressure of imminent foreclosure. Our sizeable number of member modifications and short sales compared 

to our relatively small number of foreclosures demonstrates that USAA has devoted substantial resources to assisting our members in maintaining homeownership where possible, and where not possible, helping them leave their 

homes responsibly and with dignity. 

• With our HomeCircleTM solution, we are the first company to enable consumers 

to carry out most components of the home-buying process from their computer 

or mobile device, from research to financing to insuring. 

• USAA tailors our products to help members cope with the financial consequences of frequent or rapid relocations within the United States and across 

the globe, such as transferring automobile and insurance registration across 

State lines or facilitating the sale and purchase of their homes. 

• For members living abroad, we continue to service their bank accounts with us 

and provide free wire transfers, and foreign automobile and renters insurance 

in certain countries. 

• Our emphasis on remote and mobile banking tools provides a seamless transition for our members when they relocate. 

• Members can deposit checks from most UPS store locations. 

• Our AutoCircleTM solution provides a similar ability for members to find, finance, and insure new or used vehicles online or through a mobile device. 

• USAA does not charge a fee for members’ first 10 monthly ATM withdrawals 

and refunds other banks’ ATM usage fees up to $15 in each month, enabling 

access to all ATMs regardless of where servicemembers live or travel. 

(iii) Survivorship 

Financial institutions serving the needs of servicemembers must also be prepared 

to address the difficult issues of untimely death and survivorship in a simple, fair, 

and efficient manner. Moreover—because new technology and armor has reduced 

wartime deaths, financial institutions should also be able to help soldiers and their 

families navigate the world of severe injury and disability—as they have become 

commonplace in today’s military. 

USAA provides special benefits to servicemembers and their families in the event 

of a member’s injury or death. For example: 

• USAA offers severe injury benefit riders on certain life insurance policies. In the 

event of a severe injury, these features provide a payout to meet immediate 

43 

needs such as enabling family members to travel to the military hospital where 

the injured servicemember is being treated. 

• If a servicemember is severely injured, certain USAA life insurance policies also 

permit servicemembers to purchase additional coverage when they leave the 

military and lose their Servicemembers’ Group Life Insurance coverage. 

• USAA has a dedicated team of employees that are specially trained to assist 

the families of terminally ill and deceased members, with a special outreach 

team for servicemembers killed in action. This Survivorship Response Team 

provides a single point of contact to assist with executing members’ wills. We 

act as advocates and help family members to access the military benefits to 

which they may be entitled. 

B. Service and Education 

USAA believes that financial literacy and education are essential to empowering 

military families in the consumer financial marketplace. Financial literacy is especially crucial for younger soldiers who have little experience in such issues but have 

very serious responsibilities in their service to the Nation. In a war zone, commanders and soldiers should not be distracted by financial problems, uncertainty 

and hardship. Thus, at USAA we take our financial literacy mission very seriously. 

At no cost to our members, USAA.com, features tremendous resources including 

market news and research, articles, calculator tools, and online communities. Our 

Web site provides information to all military families preparing for deployment, permanent change of station (PCS) and leaving the military. For example, our ‘‘Deployment’’ page provides articles and checklists teaching servicemembers about the importance of having a will and durable power of attorney, making your spouse a joint 

account holder, and notifying your insurance company if your home will be unoccupied or your car will be in storage. In addition, this page provides information for 

spouses during deployment and articles to help servicemembers readjust to family 

life upon their return from deployment. Further, USAA.com has a ‘‘Military Spouse 

Community’’ page for military spouses to get in touch with each other and help one 

another on issues such as PCS, deployment, converting to civilian life, and finances. 

In addition to the services available on USAA.com, we provide fee-based financial 

planning services by licensed salaried professionals to help members plan for and 

achieve their financial goals, including retirement and estate planning. 

USAA also protects our members by helping them navigate the wider consumer 

marketplace. For example, purchasing a vehicle is a major financial milestone, especially for our younger members. Members can use USAA’s AutoCircleTM solution to 

find, finance and insure a vehicle from their computers or mobile phones. USAA certifies dealers across the country and offers a Lowest Price Guarantee so members 

can get the best price on the vehicle they want, without time-consuming negotiations. In 2010, we helped members and customers save over $165 million through 

our car-buying and mortgage refinancing services. 

Last but not least, we proudly sponsor The USAA Educational Foundation, a nonprofit organization dedicated to helping individuals make informed financial decisions through education (the Educational Foundation). The Educational Foundation 

offers a wide range of materials on financial management, safety concerns, and life 

events that are available to the general public at no charge. Over 4.7 million of 

these publications were distributed online and by mail in 2010, and the Educational 

Foundation will exceed that number in 2011. The Educational Foundation also delivers personal financial management presentations to ROTC cadets, military 

servicemembers, and their families, reaching 51,000 individuals in 2010 alone. This 

year, the Educational Foundation also produced a short video on the importance of 

Financial Readiness for members of the military. 

We also sponsor another nonprofit organization known as The USAA Foundation 

that is active in providing funds to the military community, especially those in need. 

In 2010, USAA, the USAA Federal Bank and The USAA Foundation distributed 

more than $3.4 million to nonprofit organizations that support the military and 

their families. Examples of organizations funded include the American Red Cross, 

the Fisher House Foundation, National Military Family Association, Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors, the Military Aid Societies, Intrepid Fallen Heroes 

Fund, Armed Services YMCA and Our Military Kids. Distributions for 2011 are projected to be at a similar level. Neither the USAA Educational Foundation nor The 

USAA Foundation endorses or promotes any commercial supplier, product, or service. 

3. USAA Offers a Military Friendly Workplace 

USAA works hard to recruit military spouses and former servicemembers to our 

employee team. We strongly believe that employing veterans and military family 

44 

1 ‘‘100 Best Companies to Work For’’, CNNMoney: A Service of CNN, Fortune, and Money, 

available at http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/bestcompanies/2011/fullllist/. 2 ‘‘100 Best Places to Work in IT 2011’’, Computerworld, available at http:// 

www.computerworld.com/s/article/9216935/BestlPlacesltolWorklinlITl2011. 

members improves our capacity to serve our unique customer base. We have endeavored to hire employees with military knowledge and expertise at ALL levels of 

the organization—from the member service representative that takes member calls 

to our CEO, who began his career as an Army Private and retired as a Major General. USAA has over 22,000 employees globally. Employees deployed in the Guard 

and Reserve continue to receive USAA paychecks that make up the difference between their military and civilian pay. About one in five of our employees is actively 

serving in the U.S. military, has served, or is a military spouse. Many more employees are the children, siblings, or parents of servicemembers. We review employment 

applications from veterans and military spouses before any other applications, and 

we also make a special effort to hire wounded veterans. This hiring strategy has 

improved our capacity to serve those who serve this Nation and to ensure a basic 

understanding of the military lifestyle throughout our organization. 

Beyond our focus on military hiring, we also work to ensure that all our employees are indoctrinated into, and fully understand, the military lifestyle. Each employee at USAA attends training and educational programs designed to help him 

or her understand the specialized needs of servicemembers and their families. As 

a result, when a servicemember calls USAA, he or she will work with an employee 

who not only understands the current financial product the member needs, but is 

also trained to understand that extra stress that the member faces because of his/ 

her career in the military. 

In 2011, GI Jobs magazine, CivilianJobs.com and Military Times EDGE all 

ranked USAA among the best employers for veterans. USAA was also ranked high 

on the Fortune Magazine list of ‘‘100 Best Companies to Work For’’ 1 and was named 

by Computerworld as the ‘‘No. 1 Best Place to Work in IT’’ for the second year in a row. 2 As an employer of choice for military families, we offer resources to support 

the transition from military to civilian life and provide ongoing professional development for veterans. 

4. Our Members’ Success Is Our Success 

USAA is committed to doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do. 

And consistently doing the right thing is not only what our members expect and deserve; it is consistently good for our members AND our business. Despite the difficult economic landscape, after meeting our financial obligations last year we were 

able to give back $1.3 billion to our members in dividends, distributions, bank rebates, and rewards. That figure represents a 12 percent increase over the previous 

year. 

Focusing on our core values of service, honesty, loyalty, and integrity, USAA offers best-in-class financial services and products to servicemembers, veterans, and 

their families. We appreciate and share the Committee’s commitment to empowering and protecting servicemembers in the consumer financial marketplace. We are 

proud of our efforts and successes to date, but we continue to look for new ways 

to serve the Nation’s military families. 

Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to answering 

any questions that the Committee may have. 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF FRANK POLLACK 

PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, PENTAGON FEDERAL CREDIT UNION

NOVEMBER 3, 2011 

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee. On behalf of the 

Board of Directors of the Pentagon Federal Credit Union, I want to thank you for 

the opportunity to testify today on these important issues that affect those who are 

sacrificing so much to protect this Nation. 

When we think about financial issues within the military community, we believe 

that more can be done to provide financial education and tools necessary for 

servicemembers to better manage their money. Too many servicemembers are ill 

prepared to protect themselves from those who would take advantage of their lack 

of financial sophistication. We would never send our troops into battle that way but 

we have not similarly focused on their financial preparedness. 

I would be remiss if I failed to recognize the laudatory efforts of credit unions in 

general, and defense credit unions in specific. Because defense credit unions are 

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member owned, not-for-profit cooperatives, we can create unique programs to meet 

the financial needs the military servicemember. 

I would like to share with you some of the programs the Pentagon Federal Credit 

Union provides to its membership. 

Recognizing the need to address the lack of financial education and in conjunction 

with our PenFed Foundation, we have established relationships with partners like 

MoneyU and MathMastery to develop financial educational materials that will assist in teaching military personnel how to properly manage their money. We provide 

these services free of charge to members between the ages of 17 and 25. 

While all of our materials and legal documents are already in ‘‘plain English,’’ we 

do believe that the lack of clear and easy to use disclosures prevents members from 

comparing and thus selecting the best financial option available to them. As a result, in collaboration with the Pew Trust, we have introduced a checking account 

disclosure that is much more transparent and enables members to easily understand the fees and costs associated with their account. We hope to roll out similarly 

easy to use disclosures for all of our savings and loan products by the end of the 

first quarter of 2012. We believe the disclosure format created by Pew Trusts represents a better way forward for all financial institutions, and we are proud to be 

a leader in rolling this out. 

The fact is that when a servicemember is fighting in Afghanistan or Iraq, they 

should not have to worry about fees and charges on their accounts even when they 

do make a mistake. 

In 2009, we introduced a program for active duty servicemembers called Warriors 

Advantage, which waives checking account fees associated with insufficient funds 

for up to two occurrences in any rolling 3 month period. We have also waived ATM 

surcharge fees at all of our ATMs on military installations and we provide free bill 

pay services to all of our members as well. In a recent survey of fees by the Military 

Times newspaper, we had the lowest average fees of any financial institution serving on military bases in the United States. Importantly, we intend to continue driving our fee revenue even lower as we look to the future. 

Our efforts extend to borrowers as well as savers. Because we do not price based 

on risk, every qualified member receives the same price for a loan. Our present rate 

for used car loans, a staple in the military community, is 2.49 percent APR. We provide a credit card offering that has no annual fees, no late charges; no foreign transaction fees; and the annual percentage rate is a market leading 7.49 percent. In 

short, we are trying to doing everything we can to insure that the military member 

has low cost credit available to them for any need they might have. 

We do know that military members can and do get into trouble with debt. When 

they do, some turn to payday lenders for assistance. For the past 8 years, we have 

provided an alternative to our members in such circumstances. Through our ARK 

(Asset Recovery Kit) loan, we provide up to a $500 emergency loan (or 10 percent 

of take home pay, whichever is larger), for a flat fee of $5. If a rollover is requested, 

the member is required to go to Consumer Credit Counseling, free of charge, to develop a plan to get them out of trouble. We provide up to five rollovers free of any 

additional charge. Through our Pentagon Federal Credit Union Foundation, we 

cover the losses for 12 other defense credit unions who participate in the ARK loan 

program. 

Our Foundation’s DreamMakers program provides matching grants of up to 

$5,000 for active duty military members seeking to purchase their first home. Because we have never done subprime lending, our delinquency and losses have remained low. As a result, our collection efforts are focused on helping the member 

in trouble rather than harassing them. 

We are but one of many defense credit unions that view our reason for being as 

a labor of love for those who defend our country. The men and women who give so 

freely of themselves so that we may be free at home deserve nothing less. 

We appreciate the opportunity to testify here today and we thank all of you for 

taking your precious time to focus on an issue of real importance to the long-term 

security of our Nation.