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NOMINATION OF ROSLYN A. MAZER 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED TWELFTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

NOMINATION OF ROSLYN A. MAZER TO BE INSPECTOR GENERAL, U.S. 

DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

NOVEMBER 15, 2011 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 

(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut, Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

MARK BEGICH, Alaska 

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

SCOTT P. BROWN, Massachusetts 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin 

ROB PORTMAN, Ohio 

RAND PAUL, Kentucky 

JERRY MORAN, Kansas 

MICHAEL L. ALEXANDER, Staff Director 

CHRISTIAN J. BECKNER, Associate Staff Director for Homeland 

Security Prevention and Protection 

KRISTINE V. LAM, Professional Staff Member 

NICHOLAS A. ROSSI, Minority Staff Director 

JENNIFER L. TARR, Minority Counsel 

TRINA DRIESSNACK TYRER, Chief Clerk 

PATRICIA R. HOGAN, Publications Clerk 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Hearing Clerk 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Lieberman ........................................................................................... 3 

Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 4 

Senator Akaka .................................................................................................. 11 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 14 

Prepared statements: 

Senator Lieberman ........................................................................................... 25 

Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 26 

WITNESSES 

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2011 

Hon. Benjamin L. Cardin, a U.S. Senator from the State of Maryland: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 1 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 28 

Roslyn A. Mazer to be Inspector General, U.S. Department of Homeland 

Security: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 30 

Biographical and financial information .......................................................... 34 

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 45 

Letter from the Office of Government Ethics ................................................. 75 

Response to post-hearing questions for the Record ....................................... 78 

APPENDIX 

Ed Haugland, Assistant Inspector General for Inspections, Office of the Director of National Intelligence, prepared statement .............................................. 108 

Kimberley A. Caprio, Former Assistant Inspector General for Audits in the 

Office of the Director of National Intelligence, prepared statement ................ 111 

Letters of support from: 

Charlene Barshefsky, WilmerHale .................................................................. 118 

Dennis C. Blair, Former Director of National Intelligence ........................... 120 

Kermit S. Eck, Partner, Cooke & Bieler ......................................................... 122 

Mark Ewing, Chief Management Officer, Office of the Director of National Intelligence ......................................................................................... 124 

Fred F. Fielding, Morgan, Lewis & Bockius .................................................. 126 

Glenn A. Fine, Former Inspector General of the U.S. Department of 

Justice ............................................................................................................ 127 

Jamie S. Gorelick, WilmerHale ....................................................................... 129 

Mary S. Jones, Vice President and Treasurer, Union Pacific Corporation .. 131 

Peter D. Keisler, Sidley Austin ....................................................................... 133 

John F. Kimmons, Lieutenant General, U.S. Army (Retired) ...................... 135 

Christopher A. Kojm, Chairman, National Intelligence Council .................. 137 

Robert S. Litt, Office of General Council, Office of the Director of National Intelligence ......................................................................................... 138 

Lloyd Raines, Principal, Integral Focus ......................................................... 140 

Eric M. Thorson, Inspector General, U.S. Department of the Treasury ...... 141 

(1) 

NOMINATION OF ROSLYN A. MAZER 

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2011 

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:19 p.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Joseph I. Lieberman, Chairman of the Committee, presiding. 

Present: Senators Lieberman, Akaka, Carper, Collins, and 

Coburn. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. The Committee will come to order. Good 

afternoon and welcome to the hearing. I apologize for being late, 

but Senator Collins and I were both in the Armed Services Committee, and we had a special meeting called by Chairman Levin 

and Senator McCain. 

Senator Cardin, unless you really have some deep desire to hear 

the opening statements by Senator Collins and me, we would be 

happy to have you do your introduction now. 

Senator CARDIN. I assume you will have that emailed to me. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. We may have it embossed and engraved. 

We will send it to you in some suitable fashion. 

INTRODUCTION OF NOMINEE BY HON. BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, 

A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND 

Senator CARDIN. Thank you, Senator Lieberman and Senator 

Collins. I really appreciate that courtesy. It is a pleasure to be back 

before this Committee for a really enjoyable thing for me to do and 

that is to introduce a person whom I have known for a long time. 

I have known her family for a long time. 

It is a real pleasure for me to introduce Roslyn Mazer to this 

Committee, a nominee to be the Inspector General (IG) for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). I have known her family. 

I know her commitment to community service, and I strongly endorse her nomination for confirmation. 

Roslyn Mazer, I believe, is ideally qualified for the position. Almost her entire professional life has been spent in public service, 

nearly a decade in the Inspector General community. 

She received her B.A. from Syracuse University, Phi Beta Kappa, 

and her J.D. from Columbus School of Law at Catholic University. 

Between 1993 and 2009, she held senior positions at the Department of Justice (DOJ), including 7 years in the Office of the Inspector General’s Oversight and Review Division. 

2 

In that capacity, she led reviews of the Federal Bureau of Investigation’s (FBI) abuses of national security letter authorities, leading to two reports mandated by Congress in the USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005. 

I must tell you that, as a former chairman of the Terrorism and 

Homeland Security Subcommittee on the Judiciary Committee, I 

found these reports to be very useful in our committee’s deliberations and briefings and on the reauthorization of the expiring Patriot Act authorities. 

I know that Senator Coburn served on that committee, and I 

know that we all found those reports to be helpful in the work that 

we did. 

At the Justice Department, she also conducted investigations of 

high-level misconduct by officials and employees. She also led a review team on the FBI’s implementation of the Attorney General’s 

guidelines. She also held several specialized positions at the Department of Justice, including that of Associate Deputy Attorney 

General and the President’s Chair of the Interagency Security 

Classification Appeals Panel. 

I would also note that she received the Attorney General’s Award 

for Distinguished Service, the Award for Excellence by the President’s Council on Integrity and Efficiency in Government, and the 

Department of Justice Office of Inspector General’s Award of Merit. 

Mr. Chairman, Roslyn Mazer already had a list of significant accomplishments before taking her current position in 2009, which is 

the Inspector General of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI). Ms. Mazer serves concurrently as the Chair of the 

Intelligence Community Inspectors General (ICIG) Forum, working 

with all intelligence community (IC) elements to fulfill communitywide objectives established by Congress. 

Roslyn Mazer was involved in both unclassified and classified reviews of the President’s Surveillance Program, which again I found 

useful as a former member of the Judiciary Committee as we considered how to overhaul the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act 

(FISA) to provide for greater oversight by Congress and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. 

In her current position, Ms. Mazer has been instrumental in 

helping the Office of Inspector General (OIG) prepare to transition 

the office to become the Inspector General for the intelligence community. 

In my view, Mr. Chairman, Ms. Mazer serves as a shining example of public service and doing what is best for our country. 

I would just add on a personal note that I am very proud of her 

connections to the State of Maryland. Ms. Mazer grew up in Baltimore and is a proud graduate of Pimlico Junior High School. She 

is also a proud graduate of Western High School, which is the oldest public all-girls school in the United States, founded in 1844. 

She is a product of the Baltimore city public school system, and we 

are proud of that. 

I also take great pride in the Mazer family. I particularly want 

to acknowledge Ms. Mazer’s father, William Mazer, who is a close 

personal friend and is a great person in our community. 

Just a little sidebar on that, Mr. Chairman. William Mazer is 

well known for his politics in our local synagogues. He is well preVerDate Nov 24 2008 12:43 Apr 03, 2012 Jkt 072556 PO 00000 Frm 00006 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\72556.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
3 

pared for those types of challenges. I also want to acknowledge her 

husband, David Holzworth. Public service is a family sacrifice, and 

we thank them for their willingness to continue to serve our country. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks very much, Senator Cardin. That 

was very thoughtful and obviously a personally supportive statement. I appreciate it. 

My own experience is that synagogue politics can be much more 

intense than regular politics, and so that is quite a statement on 

behalf of Mr. Mazer. 

Thank you very much. You are obviously free to stay but I know 

you have a busy schedule. We appreciate very much your coming 

by. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN LIEBERMAN 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. It is a pleasure to welcome everyone to 

this hearing. Today, as Senator Cardin made clear, we are considering the nomination of Roslyn Mazer to serve as Inspector General 

of the Department of Homeland Security, which, of course, is the 

focus of the activities of this Committee; and therefore, the nomination is an important one to us. 

The DHS Inspector General is responsible for overseeing more 

than $55 billion in annual spending by the department and investigating suspected waste, fraud, and abuse of those funds. 

The IG at DHS carries out audits and inspections of departmental activities that provide important insight into the department’s effectiveness and helps inform our oversight and that of the 

relevant House committees. 

The IG is also charged with investigating misconduct among 

DHS employees, including the significant, unfortunately, and growing problem of drug trafficking organizations attempting to corrupt 

employees of the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and 

Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agencies. 

In nominating Ms. Mazer to be the IG at DHS, I think President 

Obama has chosen someone with a really impressive record, a long 

and distinguished career as a lawyer in private practice and at the 

Department of Justice, including 7 years at the DOJ Office of Inspector General where she led important reviews of the FBI’s use 

of national security letters and its compliance with the Attorney 

General’s investigative guidelines. 

In recognition of her work on the FBI’s use of national security 

letters, she received the Department of Justice’s Distinguished 

Service Award and the President’s Council on Integrity and Efficiency Award for Excellence. 

In 2009, a former Director of National Intelligence (DNI), Dennis 

Blair, selected her to serve as DNI Inspector General; and she has 

served in that position for the last 21⁄2 years. 

The record of the Committee has very strong statements of support from people with whom Ms. Mazer has worked, including the 

former IG at the Department of Justice, Glenn Fine, and the current Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper. 

So, we look forward to hearing from you today and learning more 

about your vision and priorities for the Office of Inspector General 

at DHS. Senator Collins. 

4 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

We convene today to consider the nomination of Roslyn Mazer to 

become the next Inspector General of the Department of Homeland 

Security. 

This Committee’s jurisdiction includes not only oversight of the 

department, but also the work of Inspectors General governmentwide. Inspectors General are a vital part of the Federal Government. They conduct oversight of Federal agencies, identify program 

vulnerabilities, expose fraud and improper payments, and promote 

effective government. 

Most recently, Ms. Mazer served as the Inspector General for the 

Office of the Director of National Intelligence. She also served as 

the Chair of the Intelligence Community Inspectors General 

Forum, working with all intelligence community elements, including DHS. 

The ODNI Inspector General’s Office employs only approximately 

35 people and produces several reports annually. In contrast, the 

DHS Office of Inspector General employs more than 670 employees, 

making it the fifth largest IG office in the Federal Government. 

The DHS OIG issues about 120 reports each year. My point is 

that there is an enormous difference in the scope, activity level, 

and management challenges of the two offices. 

Given the mission of DHS and the size of its IG office, it is imperative that we have an Inspector General who not only has extensive experience, but also is a skillful manager. The IG must empower employees to do their jobs and ensure timely, high-quality 

products. 

The nominee’s background is, in many ways, impressive and includes considerable experience in the IG community. Notably, in 

addition to her most recent role, Ms. Mazer served for 7 years in 

the Justice Department’s Office of Inspector General where, as the 

Chairman has noted, she led reviews of the FBI’s use of national 

security letters. The Committee has also received several endorsement letters. 

At the same time, 1 year into Ms. Mazer’s tenure as IG and after 

hearing concerns from some of her employees, the Director of National Intelligence commissioned a climate survey of the OIG staff. 

The results of that survey raise many questions about the nominees effectiveness as a manager and her impact on the office’s productivity. 

Given these concerns, I asked the Committee staff to review the 

reports issued by the office during Ms. Mazer’s tenure. The staff 

found a significant drop, by over half, in the number of substantial 

reports issued by the IG’s office. 

The Committee also has received an on-the-record statement 

from the current Assistant Inspector General for Inspections at the 

Office of the Director of National Intelligence reiterating concerns 

about Ms. Mazer’s management abilities. 

I approach this hearing and this nomination with both an open 

mind and many questions. Has the experience of managing a small 

IG office prepared the nominee for the challenge of managing one 

of the largest in the Federal Government? 

5 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Mazer appears in the Appendix on page 30. 

Is the nominee able to generate high-quality reports and audits 

quickly enough to be relevant and to lead to policy changes in time 

to fix problems? And what has she done to overcome the management challenges that were identified in the climate survey? 

I look forward to discussing these issues today with our witness. 

Let me end my opening statement by saying that I have no doubt 

that Ms. Mazer is an excellent attorney. That is not, however, the 

question before us. 

This Committee must determine if she has the ability to lead one 

of the largest and most important Inspector General offices in the 

entire government. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Senator Collins. 

We will go now to the witness. Ms. Mazer has filed responses to 

a biographical and financial questionnaire, answered pre-hearing 

questions submitted by the Committee, and had her financial statements reviewed by the Office of Government Ethics. 

Without objection, this information will be made part of the hearing record with the exception of the financial data, which are on 

file and available for public inspection at the Committee’s offices. 

Ms. Mazer, as I think you know, our Committee rules require 

that all witnesses at nomination hearings give their testimony 

under oath. So I would ask you to please stand and raise your right 

hand. 

Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give to this 

Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the 

truth, so help you, God? 

Ms. MAZER. I do. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you. Please be seated. We would 

welcome your statement now, and you are also free to introduce 

any family or friends who are with you. 

TESTIMONY OF ROSLYN A. MAZER 1 TO BE INSPECTOR 

GENERAL, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Ms. MAZER. Chairman Lieberman, Ranking Member Collins, and 

Members of the Committee, thank you for the honor of appearing 

before you today as you consider my nomination to serve as the Inspector General of the Department of Homeland Security. 

I am deeply honored to have been nominated by the President, 

and I wish to thank Senator Cardin for taking the time from his 

busy schedule to be here today in support of my nomination. 

I appreciate the opportunity, Mr. Chairman, to introduce my 

family: My father, William Mazer; my husband, David Holzworth; 

my stepson, Jeremy Holzworth; and my godson, Paul Swerdlow. 

I am also fortunate to have other friends and colleagues from the 

Department of Justice and other places I have served attending the 

hearing today. 

DHS faces numerous challenges in achieving its vital mission to 

protect the homeland, as this Committee has well documented, particularly through its hearings. If confirmed, I believe that my progressive experience working in the Department of Justice and in 

the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, including over 9 

6 

years in the Inspector General community, and my earlier career 

in private law practice have prepared me to serve the Congress, the 

Secretary, and the public as the DHS Inspector General. 

At the Department of Justice, I participated as a senior leader 

in three large successful organizational elements, the Office of the 

Inspector General with about 450 personnel, the Criminal Division 

with over 600 personnel, and the DOJ’s leadership offices. 

When serving in the DOJ OIG, I led many significant reviews, 

including two congressionally mandated reviews of the FBI’s use of 

national security letters, which found serious abuses in the FBI’s 

use of these authorities. The FBI has accepted the findings and 

acted promptly to remedy these abuses. 

At the ODNI, I managed the Inspector General organization and 

concurrently chaired the Intelligence Community Inspectors General Forum whose members include the DHS Inspector General. 

During my tenure at the ODNI IG, the office completed many 

hard-hitting, meaty financial audits, inspections, investigative reports, and evaluations on a variety of topics, including the use of 

national intelligence program funds by DHS intelligence community elements, acquisition and contractor oversight, the status of 

intelligence community integration, stewardship of appropriated 

funds, and a review of the IC civilian joint duty program. 

If confirmed, my familiarity with DHS and my experience leading cross-component and enterprise-wide reviews will serve me 

well. 

I began my tenure at the ODNI with a clear mission from the 

Director of National Intelligence to build and sustain the credibility 

of the relatively new Office of the Inspector General. 

In support of my efforts, the current Director of National Intelligence commissioned an office-wide assessment of a number of 

ODNI components, including the Inspector General’s office. That 

assessment provided two valuable insights. 

First, it showed that change can be difficult for employees as well 

as leadership. Second, it demonstrated how valuable feedback is to 

successful change management. 

The survey gave voice to legitimate employee concerns about the 

way I was trying to improve the office, and I took those concerns 

to heart. I acted promptly with my senior leadership team to implement the recommendations, including recommendations to better 

support employees who had no previous training in the IG community. 

As recommended, I also availed myself of leadership development 

training. I believe the lessons learned from this exercise helped position me both for the success I enjoyed as ODNI Inspector General 

and, if confirmed, to be a successful leader at DHS. 

My dedication to the mission of the Inspector General community 

is borne out in my accomplishments in both offices. At the Department of Justice and the ODNI, all of my reports were relevant, 

were factually accurate and fair, were conducted independently and 

thoroughly, were concise and well-written, and contained targeted 

recommendations that were accepted by agency management. 

Moreover, at the ODNI, I established repeatable processes to mature and sustain the office, including a formal process to ensure 

that IG recommendations in cooperation with management are 

7 

timely implemented and also the first office-wide standard operating procedures to guide our work. 

In conclusion, I know that DHS faces major challenges in addressing new, complex threats. Issues such as border corruption, 

DHS’s cyber security mission, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency’s (FEMA) capacity respond to disasters and manage 

its grants are enduring challenges. 

As DHS confronts these challenges, the Office of the Inspector 

General must be innovative, adaptive, and responsive. If confirmed, 

I pledge to protect the independence of the Office of the Inspector 

General; to be tenacious; to produce fair, accurate, relevant, and 

timely reports; to drive implementation of the recommendations; 

and to continue the effective dialogue between this Committee and 

the Office of the Inspector General. 

If I am confirmed, I am confident we can work together in collaboration in pursuit of DHS’s vital mission to protect the homeland. 

Thank you once again, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Collins, 

for the opportunity to appear before you today. I look forward to 

your questions. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks very much, Ms. Mazer, for that 

statement. 

Let me begin with the standard three questions that we ask of 

all nominees. First, is there anything you are aware of in your 

background that might present a conflict of interest with the duties 

of the office to which you have been nominated? 

Ms. MAZER. No. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Second, do you know anything personal or 

otherwise that would, in any way, prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you 

have been nominated? 

Ms. MAZER. I do not. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. And finally, do you agree without reservation to respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify 

before any duly constituted committee of Congress, if you are confirmed? 

Ms. MAZER. I do. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you very much. We will start the 

first round of questions, limited to 7 minutes for each member. 

There is no question that, based on your record, you come to us 

with a very impressive record of service to our government and to 

our Nation; and obviously based on that record and its various expressions, the President has nominated you for this position. 

But I think you know, as Senator Collins indicated in her opening statement, that there have been concerns expressed about 

whether you are prepared to do this job, and I want to give you 

an opportunity right up front to respond to those concerns. 

These come in a different form than we very often have. Frankly, 

sometimes when people come before us, there are allegations of 

ethical wrongdoing or personal wrongdoing. This is not at all the 

case with you. 

The fact is that most everybody we spoke to said that not only 

were you honorable, but they thought you were intelligent and capable. 

8 

So, the concerns expressed when they were expressed by people 

were really about your management abilities. It is awkward to get 

into this in public, but I think we have to, and I want to give you 

an opportunity to respond. 

Some people have gone on record, as you know, with the Committee saying that you are a ‘‘micro-manager’’ who was unable to 

set clear priorities for the office and communicated ineffectively 

with the staff. 

This was not a large number of people, and in contrast, I want 

to hasten to say, with some really extraordinarily positive statements filed. I mentioned the former IG, Glenn Fine. Your former 

boss, Dennis Blair, former DNI, sent a very strong statement of 

support for you. He said you were the best IG that he had worked 

with in his 35-plus years. 

But there are these critiques. Others said that your management 

of the office had a serious impact on the performance of the IG’s 

office at the Office of Director of National Intelligence, including 

delay in a number of reports and some attrition at the higher levels 

of the staff. 

So, let me see if I can break this down a little bit and ask you 

to respond to the micromanagement charge. I have a voice in my 

head. I can hear my wife speaking to me. We regularly accuse each 

other of being micromanagers. Perhaps in that relationship, it is 

acceptable. 

But some who have worked for you think that it has had an adverse affect on what you have done, and I wanted to give you a 

chance to respond to that and other critiques about your management style and frankly the relevant question about whether you 

can handle an IG office that is so much larger than the one that 

you oversaw at the DNI. 

Ms. MAZER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to address both questions. 

First, if I may, I would like to put the so-called climate survey 

in context. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Yes. 

Ms. MAZER. As I mentioned, the former Director of National Intelligence recruited me to come to the ODNI Inspector General’s 

Office to bring credibility and maturity to the office. 

He sought me out because he wanted me to bring the mature 

and successful practices from what is widely regarded, I believe, as 

one of the most successful IG offices, the Department of Justice, to 

the relatively new ODNI Inspector General’s Office. 

The climate survey revealed and gave voice to genuine concerns 

on the part of my staff about how I was bringing about the change 

I was asked to accomplish, not the goals—— 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Right. 

Ms. MAZER [continuing]. Not the objectives, but how I was going 

about it. 

As you know, the Inspectors General pride themselves on and 

their currency is their credibility. In order to sign out on any report, I had to ensure that the work was done objectively and independently, that it was done fairly, that management was given an 

adequate opportunity to comment on the statements in the report 

and to help tailor the recommendations. 

9 

And all that said, the climate survey revealed that the way in 

which I was going about bringing these changes and accomplishing 

the maturation of the office created frustration. 

Many members of the staff that I inherited had no Inspector 

General background. So, as I said in my opening remarks, IGs are 

all about telling others how to improve themselves. 

That is what they do. They identify fraud, waste, and abuse. 

They identify efficiencies. They identify ways to improve agency 

performance. 

Well, here the spotlight was on me, and I took it very seriously. 

I embraced the recommendations. My senior leadership team set 

about to make changes immediately in conformity with those recommendations. And I personally availed myself of leadership development training. And I am a better manager for it. 

If I can turn to the scalability question. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Yes. 

Ms. MAZER. Prior to joining the intelligence community in 2009, 

I was part of the senior leadership in the Department of Justice, 

including 2 years in the 600-plus employee Criminal Division. 

There I led a very important initiative that involved multiple 

stakeholders across the Federal Government, the private sector, 

and international alliances to boost our protection of intellectual 

property rights. 

This was the first-ever initiative by the Department of Justice. 

It entailed employing and leveraging the resources of Customs, the 

State Department, the Patent and Trademark Office, the FBI, all 

of our intellectual property alliances, and even the G–8 and other 

international alliances. It was a very successful initiative, which 

has been built upon to this day. 

Likewise in the ODNI OIG, as you mentioned, Mr. Chairman, in 

your opening remarks, I had a duel mission, and this duel mission 

is highly relevant to the office for which I have been nominated. 

Not only did I manage a small IG office but concurrently chaired 

the Intelligence Community Inspectors General Forum, which, like 

the Department of Homeland Security, has a cross-enterprise and 

cross-mission role. 

In serving as chair of the ICIG Forum, we produced joint reports. 

We sponsored professional training. We shared best practices. We 

were able to energize that cross-enterprise forum to achieve and 

work to achieve the vision of this Committee and the Congress 

when it passed the Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention 

Act. 

Those skills, working successfully cross-enterprise and cross-component, are the very skills that have been used and need to be used 

in the DHS Inspector General’s office. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. My time is up in this round. I thank you. 

Senator Collins. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman, let me start by asking unanimous consent that 

the statement of Ed Haugland, who is the Assistant Inspector GenVerDate Nov 24 2008 12:43 Apr 03, 2012 Jkt 072556 PO 00000 Frm 00013 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\72556.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
10 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Haugland appears in the Appendix on page 108. 

eral for Inspections with the Office of Director of National Intelligence, be put in the record.1

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Without objection, so ordered. 

Senator COLLINS. Ms. Mazer, I want to ask you a series of questions based on the prepared statement that we have received from 

Mr. Haugland. 

First of all, I think it is important to put this in some context. 

It is extremely unusual in my experience in my 15 years in the 

Senate for a civil servant to go on record expressing concerns about 

a nominee. 

For this reason and given the senior position that Mr. Haugland 

has within the ODNI, I am concerned about his comments. I would 

start by noting that you hired him for his position, is that correct? 

Ms. MAZER. It is. 

Senator COLLINS. So, he was your choice for a senior position in 

the office. I would like to read some of his testimony and have you 

respond to it. 

‘‘Ms. Mazer’s management led to such significant negative impacts on the personnel, mission, and morale of the ODNI OIG that 

I found it necessary to take action despite significant risks to my 

career and despite being on probation for 1 year as a new senior 

executive.’’ 

He goes on to say, ‘‘Her actions were the major issue that resulted in minimized efficiency, effectiveness of the office’s mission, 

significant morale issues, a large attrition of staff, and not one inspection being initiated during my tenure with her.’’ 

What is your response to these concerns? 

Ms. MAZER. First, I want to say, Senator Collins, that when I 

learned that Mr. Haugland had approached the Committee with 

views that, of course, are fully appropriate for him to express, I 

recused myself from any personnel action in relation to him because I did not want there to be any question that I, in any way, 

discouraged or acted in response to whatever information he provided to the Committee. 

Senator COLLINS. Well, you are no longer his supervisor, are you? 

Ms. MAZER. That is correct. But I think it is important that the 

Committee understand that when I learned that he had approached the Committee, I recused myself from his personnel review this year. 

I also declined to review that statement because I did not want 

there to be any question because I was still in the position when 

I learned he had provided this to the Committee. This is the first 

I am hearing about the content of it, but I am very happy to respond to it. 

But I wanted the Committee to understand that I took myself 

out of any review of his activities so there would be no question 

about any action I have taken in relation to his statements. 

Senator COLLINS. Well, I would like for you to respond to his 

statements. They are very serious and they echo many of the concerns that the independent consultant found when the consultant 

conducted the climate survey, and I would note that the concerns 

11 

reflected in that survey were widespread among the staff. They did 

not originate with this one individual. 

So, what is your response? 

Ms. MAZER. I reject his conclusions. But as I said earlier, the climate survey revealed legitimate employee concerns, such as those 

expressed by Mr. Haugland, about the way I was going about 

achieving the objectives I was hired to achieve. 

Senator COLLINS. Well, I guess I would like to hear more specifics from you. For example, Mr. Haugland says that not one inspection was initiated during his tenure with you. 

Why is that? 

Ms. MAZER. Well, a number of inspections were underway when 

he joined the office, several very significant inspections, one of 

which has been completed, several of which are under way, and one 

of which was suspended for reasons that Mr. Haugland supported. 

So, the inspection that was recently completed is one that I believe is related to the topic of this Committee’s hearing tomorrow, 

which is the ODNI’s oversight of its contractor workforce. 

I know that this Committee is very interested in aggressive oversight of the contractor workforce across the intelligence community 

and the ODNI. During Mr. Haugland’s tenure, that inspection was 

conducted and completed. 

In addition, there are several other inspections underway, and 

one inspection that was largely completed by the time Mr. Haugland joined my office has been suspended on the recommendation 

of Mr. Haugland because of certain dynamic circumstances going 

on with Director Clapper assuming duty in the ODNI. So, I do not 

believe that is fully accurate. 

Moreover, I would like to say that during Mr. Haugland’s tenure 

and during my tenure in the 21⁄2 years I have had the privilege of 

serving as ODNI Inspector General, we have completed many 

meaty, significant reports that go to the core mission of the 

ODNI—reports on acquisition oversight, contractor oversight, the 

status of integration of the intelligence community, the joint duty 

program, one of the main drivers of intelligence integration. 

In addition, we have done many investigative reports—reports of 

serious misconduct and other types of improper activity. So, beyond 

the inspection division, our office has produced many meaty and 

significant reports that my staff and I are very proud of. 

Senator COLLINS. Well, my time has expired and there are additional people who are waiting to question. But I would note that 

when one excludes the regularly issued reports, such as the Federal Information Security Management Act reviews or the one-page 

data summaries, there is, in fact, a substantial drop in the number 

of substantial reports during your tenure. 

That is data that I know we have shared with you, but I will 

wait until the next round. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Senator Collins. Next is Senator Akaka. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

12 

Ms. Mazer, I want to add my welcome to you and to your family 

attending this hearing and also to congratulate you on your nomination. 

Ms. MAZER. Thank you very much. 

Senator AKAKA. Inspectors General have a unique and important 

role. IGs help agencies and Congress identify ways, as you have 

mentioned, to prevent waste, fraud, and abuse. They also protect 

employees from retaliation when they blow the whistle on waste 

and wrongdoing. 

Earlier this year, I re-introduced the bipartisan legislation to 

protect whistleblowers. So, I want you to know that, if confirmed, 

I hope you will continue to work with employees, as you stated you 

will, who come forward to expose waste, fraud, and abuse. 

Ms. Mazer, as you know, while the DHS has made progress, the 

Department still faces challenges that put it on the Government 

Accountability Office (GAO) high-risk list year after year, including 

human capital and contract management as well as integration of 

its information and financial systems. I look forward to working 

with you on these issues, and I have a few questions to ask you. 

When initiating a project, Ms. Mazer, it is important to design 

it in a way that encourages optimal use by an agency or Congress. 

How do you scope projects so they will be useful and timely? 

Ms. MAZER. This is a central function, Senator, as you know, of 

the IG office. The way to scope projects is to research the topic 

carefully, to meet with the affected elements, to understand what 

the issues are that they think need to be addressed, to look at the 

relevant reports generated by the Inspector General community on 

that topic if there are any, to sit down with a team going to conduct the review to determine how it can be done in the most efficient fashion. 

This is the garden-variety work that IGs do every day. It is also 

important, as the project is executed, to re-examine the scope of the 

project. If it turns out that the work needed to be done is far more 

significant than originally anticipated, it is often prudent to 

descope the project, to push out the project results in perhaps two 

or three segments so that agency management has the benefit in 

a timely fashion of the initial findings. 

So, scoping of projects is a very important function, and I appreciate, Senator, your recognizing how important that is for an IG office to understand. 

Senator AKAKA. The role of an Inspector General is not only to 

investigate wrongdoing and waste but also to help agencies institute procedures to prevent those problems. 

What is your approach to identifying deficiencies and shortcomings without becoming too involved in operations and policy? 

Ms. MAZER. An effective Inspector General does not just document waste, fraud, and abuse. An effective Inspector General includes in his or her reports recommendations designed to prevent 

those practices from happening in the future. That is the sweet 

spot for an Inspector General. 

In all the reports I have worked on at the Department of Justice 

IG and then ODNI, we have been able to shape recommendations 

designed to do just that. 

13 

Let me give you just two examples, and I believe this is responsive to Senator Collins’ probing questions. 

The other judgment that IGs have to make is what to do with 

the discretionary part of their portfolio. Congress mandates IGs to 

perform all kinds of work. The DHS IG is under many mandates 

to perform certain work. 

But while serving as the ODNI Inspector General, I initiated two 

very significant audits. They concern the stewardship of appropriated funds. The first was an audit of the ODNI’s fund balance 

with Treasury. 

As the Committee knows, a fund balance with Treasury is one 

of the three requirements to achieve auditability, along with property plans and equipment, and intergovernmental transfers. 

The report contained very significant findings and recommendations that have been fully implemented that will now enable the 

ODNI chief financial officer and the agency to move toward 

auditability. 

The second audit I initiated at ODNI IG was for the first time 

to examine DHS intelligence elements use of National Intelligence 

Program (NIP) funds. This was something we did on our own because the National Intelligence Program, of course, has funds distributed throughout many agencies in the government. 

We looked at DHS first. Our findings were very significant. The 

recommendations have been fully implemented, and those recommendations are well serving the ODNI Chief Financial Officer 

in providing better oversight of the use of NIP funds by other elements in our Federal Government. 

So, these are examples of the proactive approach that I have 

used successfully. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much. 

As an Inspector General, effectively communicating performance 

expectations and mutual trust with the workforce are critical to 

success. Please give specific examples of how you will accomplish 

these objectives with your Assistant Inspectors General and the 

rest of the IG workforce. 

Ms. MAZER. Thank you, Senator. 

Fortunately, I am very familiar with the DHS Office of the Inspector General. I have been exposed to that office, have worked 

with that office, and have been a hungry consumer of their reports. 

Because the DHS IG is a member of the ICIG Forum, the DHS 

IG and the current Acting IG have participated in the IC-wide 

work that I have led as chair of the ICIG Forum. 

By the same token, I am a member of the DHS IG’s Homeland 

Security Round Table. This roundtable is under the auspices of the 

Council of the Inspectors General for Integrity and Efficiency and 

performs very important work for the homeland security enterprise. 

For example, I believe this Committee will hear tomorrow from 

the National Science Foundation Inspector General, Allison Lerner, 

who co-chaired a very significant report on the under utilization of 

suspension and debarment tools by Offices of Inspector General. 

So, I am very familiar with the DHS mission, the excellent work 

product, and most significantly the excellent relations that the 

DHS IG office has with this Committee, and I am confident that, 

14 

if I am fortunate to be confirmed, I will be able to sustain and continue that excellent collaboration. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much for your responses. 

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Senator Akaka. Senator Carper. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER 

Senator CARPER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Ms. Mazer, welcome to you, and I understand I got here after the 

introductions were made, but I understand you are joined here by 

several members of your family including your husband, your father, and maybe a child or two. I am not sure, and maybe your extended family. 

I read over your background, and I came across the fact that you, 

in the earlier part of your career, wrote extensively on baseball. 

And if you ask anybody in the audience what happens almost 3 

months to the day from today, they would tell you that pitchers 

and catchers report to spring training camps all over America. 

To what do you attribute your love for baseball? 

Ms. MAZER. Well, growing up with my wonderful father. He was 

actually more of a football fan than a baseball fan. But I grew up 

in the heyday of the Baltimore Orioles. I was a student at Western 

High School when the 1966 World Series team paraded down the 

street, the glory days of Brooks Robinson and Frank Robinson—— 

Senator CARPER. Those were great days. 

Ms. MAZER [continuing]. And Luis Aparicio. And oh, I wish they 

were back. 

Senator CARPER. Well, they may be. 

One of the great things about the Orioles system was they had 

a terrific farm system. They grew their own talent, and the people 

who started off in Single-A, played Double-A, played Triple-A, and 

eventually did great things in the major leagues for the Orioles. 

Using a baseball metaphor, describe how you have been prepared 

for this job? 

Ms. MAZER. Well, I have been in the major leagues for many 

years. I started out in the minors, but I have grown with progressively greater experience and success in each position I have been 

fortunate to serve in. 

Senator CARPER. Talk about your growth. As you came up from 

the minors to the majors, what helped aid and abet your growth 

and prepared you for these challenges? 

Ms. MAZER. Excellent mentors, big challenges. I worked under 

the leadership and mentorship of Glenn Fine. There was no finer 

Inspector General. I also have enjoyed the collaboration with fellow 

Inspectors General; and in preparation for possibly serving as DHS 

IG, I have called upon the Inspector General community to talk 

about the challenges of coming into a large IG office. 

So, I have spent a lot of time thinking about, studying for, preparing for, and doing the work of an Inspector General, and I look 

forward to the opportunity, if confirmed, to serve well. 

Senator CARPER. Well, we need a major league Inspector General 

at DHS. Before my colleague Senator Coburn left, you had just testified and were responding to questions from our Chairman and 

15 

Senator Collins, I leaned over to him and said, ‘‘She is very impressive, really conveys a sense of calmness and a lot of smarts.’’ 

In fact, I said to the Chairman, ‘‘She really exudes the calm confidence of a Christian holding four aces,’’ is the way I would describe it. 

Senator Coburn is gone. He left the room, not the building. He 

is like me, rabid about identifying wasteful spending. In fact, we 

all are on this Committee, and it is a big part of what we do, not 

just homeland security. We try to figure out how to spend money 

more cost effectively, figure out what works, and do more of that. 

Find out what does not work, and do less of that. 

We need partners at GAO. We need partners at the Office of 

Management and Budget (OMB). We need partners within the IGs 

across the Federal Government, and we need to work outside of the 

Federal Government with all sorts of groups that are focused on 

waste. 

One of the things that I think he is interested in, certainly I am 

interested in, is an assurance that you are going to be that kind 

of partner, not somebody who is working for us. That is not your 

job. But someone who is going to be out there working day in and 

day out with us in partnership to identify improper payments or 

another kind of wasteful spending, contractual arrangements that 

are going on or payments to vendors that we should not be making 

at all because they are on a do-not-pay list, and information technology (IT) projects that are behind budget and frankly not delivering. 

What we really need is to know that we are going to have somebody at the helm who is as passionate about this stuff as we are 

and will be a terrific partner with us in going after that kind of 

wasteful spending. 

He is not here right now to hear from you, but I would like for 

you just to take a minute or two and convey a sense of passion 

about this, if you will. 

Ms. MAZER. I am passionately committed to that mission and to 

working collaboratively with this Committee in furtherance of it. 

And I will say just for a moment the aspects of my record that 

ready me for that responsibility. 

In my private practice years, I worked on dozens of Federal 

criminal investigations—investigations of false claims, bribery, official corruption, many of the types of crimes that unfortunately the 

DHS OIG encounters. 

In the DOJ Inspector General’s Office, I conducted many investigations of high-level misconduct, which led to suspension, removal, and discipline. 

In the ODNI IG Office, of course, I oversaw many investigations 

of serious misconduct and also investigations of waste, fraud, and 

abuse. 

From time to time, our findings were so significant that we did 

not wait until the reports were completed, but we did what Inspectors General are trained to do, which is to brief the findings to 

agency management so that they could swiftly employ measures to 

remedy those abuses. 

And finally, as the chair of the ICIG Forum, I sponsored professional training of IGs in the best practices of forensic auditing and 

16 

other anti-fraud tools that arm the IGs to identify fraud at the 

front-end. 

I sponsored and attended that professional training; and if confirmed, I look forward to leveraging those experiences and bringing 

it to the DHS IG’s Office. 

Senator CARPER. I do not know if you will have a chance to meet 

with some of our colleagues, including Senator Coburn, who is not 

here. He and I have taken turns chairing a subcommittee that 

deals with Federal financial management. He is rabid about the 

things that I have mentioned. To the extent that you have the 

chance to meet with him personally, I urge you to do that. 

And last, I just want to wish you well. I appreciate your father 

for preparing you for a life of not just baseball, but a life of public 

service. 

And if I could use a baseball metaphor, I think one of the pieces 

that you wrote was called ‘‘The Triple, Rounding Third Base,’’ and 

we know that third base is not like getting home and scoring a run. 

We want you to make it to home plate. 

Mr. Chairman, when will we have the markup on this nomination? Do you know? 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. It is not set yet. But obviously, we are not 

going to have it before Thanksgiving. So, perhaps the first or second week after the recess. 

Senator CARPER. Take full advantage of whatever time lies between now and when we actually have a chance to vote on your 

nomination. 

I am very encouraged by what you had to say here. I just think 

it is important for some of our other colleagues who may have 

questions about you to have a chance to meet you personally, spend 

time with you, and get a sense of not only your gravitas, but your 

passion for some of these issues. 

Thank you for your willingness to serve and our thanks for your 

father and mother for preparing you and for some of these men behind you for being willing to share you with the people of our country. Thank you. 

Ms. MAZER. Thank you, Senator. My husband and I had a wonderful evening in Wilmington a few days ago. 

Senator CARPER. Did you really. Well, we will talk about that 

later. Thank you. Come back and come to the beaches. We have 

great beaches, too. Thank you. 

Ms. MAZER. Thank you. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Senator Carper. I always look 

forward to Senator Carper’s questioning because it is like a force 

of nature. We are not sure exactly where it is going. 

I will say that your father was quite serious throughout this 

hearing until the word baseball was mentioned. [Laughter.] 

And then a big smile. 

Senator CARPER. And then he knew he was at a home game. This 

is a home game for him. Right? 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thanks. 

Let me see if I can summarize your reaction because again this 

is kind of a perplexing and unusual situation. Nobody questions 

your honor. Nobody questions your intellect. 

17 

So, there are some people who worked with you exclusively at 

the DNI IG office who are questioning your management abilities, 

and the Human Resources Research Organization (HumRRO) report made some critiques of your management style. Am I right 

that your response to that is to say that you accepted those critiques, you learned from them, and in fact, you went through some, 

is it fair to say, training in management skills and that, as a result, from a purely management point of view, you are prepared to 

take on this assignment for which the President has nominated 

you? 

Ms. MAZER. That is correct, and I will just add one additional 

point, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Please. 

Ms. MAZER. I did not just take the recommendations to heart, I 

implemented them. Some of them were already on track to be implemented because my then deputy had recommended them before 

the climate survey was conducted. 

But I did not just internalize them, though I did, I took steps 

with my senior leadership team to implement the recommendations. So, it was a useful exercise. The exercise validated legitimate 

concerns, and I believe Director Clapper and others have informed 

the Chairman and the Committee that I am a better manager for 

it. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. That is correct. I am going to leave that 

for now. Let me go onto another matter entirely. 

As I am sure you know, allegations of criminal misconduct by 

DHS employees, specifically those that work for CBP on the southwest border, as I mentioned earlier, continue to grow in quantity 

and seriousness. 

That is partly due to the rapid increase in staffing along the border, I presume, and perhaps partly due to the concerted effort by 

the drug cartels to target border officials to turn a blind eye as 

they bring drugs into the United States. 

I know that the DHS OIG has primary responsibility for reviewing allegations and determining whether to conduct investigations 

independently or seek assistance from ICE or CBP integrity offices 

but that there has been some tension among the different agencies 

on this matter. 

I also understand that the FBI currently leads approximately 20 

border corruption task forces that focus on combating corruption 

along our border but that the DHS OIG does not participate in 

those task forces. 

I must say that I am disappointed that interagency rivalries appear to be hindering efforts to effectively combat corruption at 

these constituent units at DHS. I wanted to ask you if you are familiar with that, and if you are, or having heard it now from me, 

what steps you might take to address this issue if you are confirmed. 

Ms. MAZER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Border corruption, as this Committee has revealed in multiple 

hearings, is a very serious and growing challenge for the Department of Homeland Security. 

With the increase in Customs and Border Protection personnel 

has sorrowfully come a significant increase in border corruption 

18 

cases. These cases are often big. They are ugly. They involve drugs. 

They involve human trafficking. It is one of the most serious challenges confronting the DHS enterprise. 

I have studied the DHS IG’s reports to date. I have been heartened to read the transcript of this Committee’s June 9, 2011, hearing at which Acting DHS Inspector General Charles Edwards described, along with CBP Commissioner Alan Bersin, the memorandum of understanding (MOU) that has been entered into that 

will leverage the resources of the Customs and Border Protection 

personnel and the Office of the Inspector General. 

If confirmed, this will be a very high priority to see what the details are of the implementation of that MOU and to meet with the 

FBI and U.S. Attorney’s Offices, something I have done successfully in my past tenure at the Department of Justice, to see what 

the opportunities and options are for participating in the border 

corruption task forces. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Good. So, you would say that your goal 

would be to see that the DHS OIG be a participant on those task 

forces? 

Ms. MAZER. It would be premature to give you that commitment, 

Mr. Chairman, but I commit to you that I will study this as a matter of high priority and understand the options and the opportunities. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. On another subject in DHS, which has 

been a focus of this Committee, in your opening statement, you 

noted that as ODNI Inspector General, you led reviews that assessed the status of integration of two intelligence elements of 

DHS, the Office of Intelligence and Analysis (INA) and the Coast 

Guard’s National Intelligence Element. 

Based on what you learned in those reviews, what would you say 

are the key challenges facing the Department of Homeland Security with respect to its intelligence activities? 

Ms. MAZER. Well, the DHS IG’s office has already done significant unclassified reports on these topics, and the reports that I 

generated were classified, and of course, I am prepared to talk 

about them in a classified setting. 

But the DHS IG’s office has already determined and studied the 

great opportunities and challenges for the Department of Intelligence and Analysis. The INA stands at the crossroads between 

the enormous amount of information that we collect at our borders, 

that the Transportation Security Administration collects, and fusing that information with the intelligence community’s resources. 

The fusion centers have been the topic of many IG reviews, and 

I think the report card is somewhat uneven. Some fusion centers 

have been remarkably successful. Others have had shortfalls. 

So, I think the INA is a work in progress. From my own assessments, I think it is on a path toward achieving a very robust role 

in the intelligence community. 

Similarly, the Coast Guard National Intelligence Element has 

very unique expertise and capabilities that we were able to document in our recent assessment that was completed this year. 

So, I think the trajectory for both is positive, but challenges, including information technology, collection of U.S. person informaVerDate Nov 24 2008 12:43 Apr 03, 2012 Jkt 072556 PO 00000 Frm 00022 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\72556.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
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tion, making sure that is done properly and in accordance with Executive Orders, remain. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Well, I agree with you that the intelligence activities within the department are a work in progress. 

They are getting better. 

If you are confirmed, based on the experience you have had with 

intelligence, I hope you will take an active interest in this and 

make it a subject of oversight because I think you can help this 

function reach the potential and be a value-added component of 

DHS, not just a repetition of what exists elsewhere in the intelligence community. Senator Collins. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to return to Mr. Haugland’s testimony. At one point he 

was talking about the difficulty in getting reports completed, and 

he gives an example in which he says that ‘‘Ms. Mazer continued 

to edit and change the scope and contents of the report so that by 

the time it was released for review, it was no longer timely, relevant, or accurate.’’ 

That is a troubling charge because one of the advantages that we 

had at DHS when Richard Skinner was the IG is he very quickly 

turned around reports—they issued over 120 in a year’s time—so 

that we in Congress could react either legislatively or by putting 

pressure on the Secretary to implement findings and recommendations. 

So, I am concerned about language in Mr. Haugland’s testimony 

saying that you so delayed reports, they no longer were timely, relevant, or accurate and similar criticisms of the over-editing and 

micromanaging that are also found in the climate study. 

What have you done specifically to respond to those criticisms? 

Ms. MAZER. I do not agree with those conclusions, Senator. I 

signed out every report that met established, professional IG standards for accuracy, fairness, relevance, and actionable recommendations. 

There were many reports that were issued and finalized under 

my tenure. My record speaks for itself. But better than that, Senator, I think you have available to you and the Committee, the letters of support that have come from the chief management officers 

of the ODNI. 

They have documented in detail, I believe, the success of my tenure and the quality, timeliness, and relevance of my reports. Both 

DNI Blair and DNI Clapper have said I was among the best IGs 

they had ever worked with, if not the best. 

So, I think one measure of my effectiveness would be the views 

of agency management, and they regarded my tenure as a success. 

I believe Inspector General Fine is widely regarded as one of the 

most distinguished Inspectors General in the IG community, and I 

believe he has also offered a letter of support about the management of very complex, congressionally mandated reviews with statutory deadlines. We met every deadline. 

Senator COLLINS. You say you have met every deadline. But it 

is my understanding that there was a statutory deadline of October 

8, 2011, for a study on e-waste that was mandated by the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2010. 

20 

I am told that the study was not completed on time. So, how can 

you say that, unless our information is wrong, you met every statutory deadline when that report was not completed? 

Ms. MAZER. I very much appreciate, Senator, the opportunity to 

respond to that. 

As the Committee knows, the Fiscal Year 2010 Intelligence Authorization Act directed three reviews to the Intelligence Community Inspector General. 

The Office of General Counsel at the ODNI provided a formal 

legal opinion to us that the obligation to produce those reports was 

not triggered until the Office of the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community was stood up. 

Nonetheless, I directed my staff to do baseline work, and we did 

very important work to position the ICIG, which is now in place 

as of last week, to undertake that congressionally directed action. 

So, in conformity with the legal advice given to my office by the 

Office of General Counsel, we did not regard that October 8 date 

as a date that ran to my office as the ODNI IG. But using appropriate Inspector General best practices, I ensured that our office 

did the baseline work to position the ICIG to begin that study. 

Senator COLLINS. So, I want to be very clear on this point. You 

are saying that you did not consider this to be a report that your 

office was mandated to be completed by October 8 of this year. Is 

that correct? 

Ms. MAZER. That is what the General Counsel told me. 

Senator COLLINS. Let me switch to another issue, which has to 

do with the productivity of the office. I started to get into that in 

the last round. 

There has been concern expressed about the drop in productivity 

under your leadership, and the statistics that both the majority 

and the minority staff collaborated on indicate that there were only 

three substantial reports that were completed in fiscal year 2010 

and fiscal year 2011, under your tenure. 

It appears, as has been said in the interviews that we conducted, 

that there was a drop in the number of reports issued by your office. Would you respond to that concern? 

Ms. MAZER. Yes. Thank you for the opportunity again to respond 

to that question. 

In my experience in the IG community now going on 9-plus 

years, there are many useful measures to assess the productivity 

of an Inspector General’s Office. 

I do not believe the best metric is the number of reports. I believe a better metric is the quality, relevance, and timeliness of the 

reports. 

Measured against that standard and considering the number of 

personnel in my office who had any IG background, I am quite 

proud of the number of reports issued during my tenure, and I am 

quite proud of the quality of the reports. 

I wish to add, Senator, that because the ODNI OIG is relatively 

new, I decided to devote a considerable amount of time to establishing repeatable processes that would make the office more efficient. 

For example, prior to my tenure, there was no established process to ensure that IG recommendations were implemented. WorkVerDate Nov 24 2008 12:43 Apr 03, 2012 Jkt 072556 PO 00000 Frm 00024 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\72556.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
21 

ing closely with agency management, we established a formal process so that there is now a directive from the Director of National 

Intelligence that requires periodic meetings with affected elements 

who have open recommendations to ensure that those recommendations are implemented. 

By any standard in the IG community, making sure that IG recommendations are implemented is every bit as important, if not 

more important, than issuing individual reports. 

In addition, I served concurrently as chair of the ICIG Forum. 

That responsibility required me to make decisions about deploying 

my senior leadership and my staff to nourish those efforts. 

Senator COLLINS. Well, do you think serving as chair of that committee prevented you from doing the kind of quantity of reports 

that we would expect? 

Ms. MAZER. It was part of the workload. 

Senator COLLINS. Did you consider resigning as chairman so that 

you could devote more time to the IG job? 

Ms. MAZER. Absolutely not. I made choices on how to ensure that 

our senior leadership team and our staff as a whole nourished and 

supported the forum so that we could leverage the resources, just 

as the DNI is to leverage the resources across the intelligence community so that we work more effectively and efficiently. 

Senator COLLINS. Well, let me suggest to you that I do not see 

quality and quantity as being enemies. I think you can produce a 

quantity of reports that are all high-quality, and again I would direct you to the experience of Richard Skinner at DHS where the 

reports were almost always of very high quality, and yet there was 

a huge quantity of reports both congressionally directed but selfinitiated as well. 

We have a saying in shipbuilding, which I am sure the Chairman 

is aware of, which is that quantity has a quality all of its own. The 

fact is, if you do one fabulous report or in your case three, let us 

say, top-notch, excellent reports, but you can only do three, you are 

not fulfilling the mission of the office. That means that too much 

is not being examined. 

It is truly a shipbuilding analogy that we use all the time. Even 

if you have three very capable submarines, destroyers, or whatever 

metaphor we want to use, that is not enough. That is why I am 

concerned about the drop in productivity. 

I want to turn to a different issue. You have talked a lot about 

policy work that you have done as the IG, and you have talked 

about the work you have done at the Department of Justice and 

the review of national security letters—important work to be sure. 

That is policy work. Those are policy reviews. In fact, the efforts 

to expose fraud, waste, mismanagement, abuse of taxpayer dollars 

and to identify improper payments are among the most important 

functions of an Inspector General, particularly at the Department 

of Homeland Security where $55 billion is being spent. 

What is your experience? Give me examples of your experience 

in conducting those types of audits and investigations. 

When I asked you this in my office, you said your review of national security letters, but that is not the kind of audit for improper 

payments or fraud. That is compliance with the law. It is imporVerDate Nov 24 2008 12:43 Apr 03, 2012 Jkt 072556 PO 00000 Frm 00025 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\72556.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT
22 

tant. It is a policy issue. It is entirely different from going after 

overpayments to FEMA recipients, for example. 

Ms. MAZER. A number of my experiences in both private practice 

and in my government service of 16 years equip me to tackle the 

DHS fraud and abuse portfolio. 

As a partner in private law practice, I participated in many Federal criminal investigations, including investigations of fraud, contract fraud, bribery, and the kinds of charges that the DHS IG investigates. 

While serving in the DOJ Office of the Inspector General, I also 

led serious misconduct investigations and serious abuse investigations of the type conducted by the DHS IG’s office. 

And as the ODNI IG, though our staff was relatively small, I 

oversaw many investigations of fraud and abuse that led to misconduct findings that led to discipline, which led to improved oversight. 

For example, the report I mentioned a few moments ago about 

contractor oversight revealed some significant shortfalls in the 

ODNI’s oversight of its contractor workforce, its oversight of contracting officers technical representatives—very similar findings to 

those made by the DHS IG’s office. These are the types of reports 

that the DHS IG’s office generates. I am very familiar with this 

work. I have done this work. And I am looking forward, if confirmed, to continuing the excellent quantity and quality of work 

performed by the DHS IG’s office in this realm. 

Senator COLLINS. Just one final question because I really want 

to focus in on this. Have you ever led or directed an audit or investigation that identified improper payments and led to their recovery? 

Ms. MAZER. No, not improper payments in the narrow sense of 

the Improper Payments Act. But I have overseen investigations in 

the ODNI IG’s office of improper practices, including practices that 

led to waste, fraud, and abuse and that led to the termination of 

contracts, that led to improved oversight of the contractor workforce. That is directly relevant to the DHS IG’s office investigative 

portfolio. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. Thank you, Senator Collins. 

Thank you, Ms. Mazer, for appearing before the Committee 

today. As I have said now twice, you present an unusual situation 

to the Committee. 

I wanted to indicate for the record that I intend to support your 

nomination. I think on balance, notwithstanding some of the criticisms that have come in, you have an exemplary record of public 

service, and it seems to me that you have responded to the constructive suggestions that were in the HumRRO report. 

But I think it probably will be important because there will be 

some concern among Committee Members that you take every advantage, I know you probably sought them already, to talk to Members of the Committee individually to allow them to ask you whatever is on their minds before the nomination comes to a vote. 

So, we will keep the record of this hearing open for 10 days when 

you or Members of the Committee or others can introduce or offer 

statements or questions to be answered for the record. 

23 

Senator Collins, do you have anything you would like to say? 

Senator COLLINS. I do not. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciated the extra time you gave me. This is a really important nomination. 

Chairman LIEBERMAN. I agree, and you are quite welcome. It 

was more than appropriate. It was the responsibility of the Committee to give you that time. 

So, I thank you very much. I thank all your family members. I 

note some friends—somebody who went to school with my daughter. My decision to support your nomination has nothing to do with 

the presence of the Swerdlow family here. 

With that, the hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 4:40 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

(25) 

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