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i 

80–766 2013

[H.A.S.C. No. 113–37] 

STATUS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF 

THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE VOW ACT 

AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE 

PRESIDENTIAL VETERANS EMPLOYMENT 

INITIATIVE TASK FORCE FOR THE DOD 

TRANSITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM— 

GOALS, PLANS, AND SUCCESS (GPS) 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

HEARING HELD 

APRIL 24, 2013 
(II) 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL 

JOE WILSON, South Carolina, Chairman 

WALTER B. JONES, North Carolina 

JOSEPH J. HECK, Nevada 

AUSTIN SCOTT, Georgia 

BRAD R. WENSTRUP, Ohio 

JACKIE WALORSKI, Indiana 

CHRISTOPHER P. GIBSON, New York 

KRISTI L. NOEM, South Dakota 

SUSAN A. DAVIS, California 

ROBERT A. BRADY, Pennsylvania 

MADELEINE Z. BORDALLO, Guam 

DAVID LOEBSACK, Iowa 

NIKI TSONGAS, Massachusetts 

CAROL SHEA-PORTER, New Hampshire 

CRAIG GREENE, Professional Staff Member 

DEBRA WADA, Professional Staff Member 

COLIN BOSSE, Staff Assistant 
(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

CHRONOLOGICAL LIST OF HEARINGS 

2013 

Page 

HEARING: 

Wednesday, April 24, 2013, Status of Implementation of the Requirements 

of the VOW Act and the Recommendations of the Presidential Veterans 

Employment Initiative Task Force for the DOD Transition Assistance Program—Goals, Plans, and Success (GPS) ............................................................ 1 

APPENDIX: 

Wednesday, April 24, 2013 ..................................................................................... 21 

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 24, 2013 

STATUS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE VOW 

ACT AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF THE PRESIDENTIAL VETERANS EMPLOYMENT INITIATIVE TASK FORCE FOR THE DOD 

TRANSITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM—GOALS, PLANS, AND SUCCESS (GPS) 

STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS 

Davis, Hon. Susan A., a Representative from California, Ranking Member, 

Subcommittee on Military Personnel ................................................................. 2 

Wilson, Hon. Joe, a Representative from South Carolina, Chairman, Subcommittee on Military Personnel ........................................................................ 1 

WITNESSES 

Kelly, Dr. Susan S., Deputy Director, Transition to Veterans Program Office, 

U.S. Department of Defense ................................................................................ 3 

Moran, John K., Deputy Assistant Secretary, Veterans’ Employment and 

Training Service, U.S. Department of Labor ..................................................... 4 

Pummill, Danny, Director, Veterans Benefits Administration—Department 

of Defense Program Office, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs ................... 6 

APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENTS: 

Davis, Hon. Susan A. ....................................................................................... 27 

Kelly, Dr. Susan S. ........................................................................................... 29 

Moran, John K. ................................................................................................. 52 

Pummill, Danny ................................................................................................ 61 

Wilson, Hon. Joe ............................................................................................... 25 

DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD: 

[There were no Documents submitted.] 

WITNESS RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS ASKED DURING THE HEARING: 

Mrs. Davis ......................................................................................................... 75 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS POST HEARING: 

Mr. Gibson ......................................................................................................... 79 

(1) 

STATUS OF IMPLEMENTATION OF THE REQUIREMENTS 

OF THE VOW ACT AND THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF 

THE PRESIDENTIAL VETERANS EMPLOYMENT INITIATIVE TASK FORCE FOR THE DOD TRANSITION ASSISTANCE PROGRAM—GOALS, PLANS, AND SUCCESS (GPS) 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES, SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL, Washington, DC, Wednesday, April 24, 2013. 

The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 2:06 p.m., in room 

2212, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Joe Wilson (chairman 

of the subcommittee) presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE WILSON, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM SOUTH CAROLINA, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE 

ON MILITARY PERSONNEL 

Mr. WILSON. The hearing will come to order. Today, the Subcommittee on Military Personnel will hear testimony on the Transition Assistance Program run by the Department of Defense, Department of Labor, and Department of Veterans Affairs, which assists transitioning military members as they prepare to separate 

from their military service to civilian life. 

Normally, the military transitions just as many service members 

back to society as they enlist every year, but during the next several years as the military reduces end strength that number will 

grow. 

So it is critical that transitioning service members are provided 

with the right information they need to make important decisions 

to support their future endeavors. When Congress established the 

Transition Assistance Program in 1991, the military was also undergoing a drawdown, but it this was not conducted after more 

than 10 years of combat with men and women participating in multiple combat deployments. The high number of deployments and 

the high unemployment rate for the post–9/11 veterans has generated several changes that affect the program. 

First of all, the VOW [Veterans Opportunity to Work] to Hire 

Heroes Act of 2011 requires all service members who have been on 

Active Duty for more than 180 days to participate in the program. 

Second, the Veterans Employment Initiative Task Force made recommendations to revamp and improve the existing program to ensure members were provided the information and services they 

needed tailored to their postmilitary initiatives. Today, we will 

hear from witnesses about the status of the implementation, the 

changes and improvements to the Transition Assistance Program 

and what mechanisms are available to identify and share best 
2 

practices, receive feedback from service members, and how does 

each agency define success. 

I would like to welcome our distinguished witnesses. Dr. Susan 

S. Kelly, Deputy Director, Transition to Veterans Program Office, 

Department of Defense; Mr. John K. Moran, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Veterans’ Employment and Training Service, Department of 

Labor; Mr. Danny Pummill, Director, Veterans Benefits Administration, Department of Defense Program Office, Department of Veterans Affairs. 

Ms. Davis, would you have any opening comments? 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Wilson can be found in the Appendix on page 25.] 

STATEMENT OF HON. SUSAN A. DAVIS, A REPRESENTATIVE 

FROM CALIFORNIA, RANKING MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON 

MILITARY PERSONNEL 

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I am certainly 

pleased that we are holding this important hearing today on the 

current status of the Transition Assistance Program. I also want to 

welcome our witnesses; Dr. Kelly, Mr. Moran, and Mr. Pummill, 

thank you so much for your presence. 

Today’s hearing will focus on how the Departments of Defense, 

Labor and Veterans Affairs are working together—I would add 

Education in there, perhaps you can provide some help with that, 

as well—to enhance the transition of service members back to their 

communities. Over the past several years, the unemployment levels 

of those who have served in Iraq and Afghanistan has received 

much attention. Many of these individuals, following their service, 

return home to a job market that has been challenging, to say the 

very least, and to the communities that have been hard hit economically. 

While the economy and the job market continue to slowly improve, the transition of service members remains a focus of attention. Efforts to improve the transition services provided to service 

members to ensure that they are provided the tools they need to 

ensure a smooth reentry into society, that is absolutely vital to ensure the long-term stability of these individuals. In our efforts to 

help service members transition, there has been considerable attention paid to how we can improve the transfer of military skills and 

certifications. 

But what is less clear is whether we have an understanding of 

where the jobs in the private sector really are, and whether these 

new programs provide the capacity for a service member to transition their skills to meet the demands of the job market. For example, in 2012 we authorized the Services to allow transitioning service members to participate in apprenticeship programs while still 

in service. The program in San Diego, which I have had a chance 

to visit a number of times, is quite impressive and has trained a 

number of marines who have gone into civilian jobs following their 

successful completion of the program. 

Transitioning out of the service and back into civilian life can be 

one of the most stressful events in a person’s life, and it is important that we provide the tools these individuals need to succeed. So 

I look forward to hearing from our witnesses, especially on how we 
3 

are doing to implement the new requirements under the VOW Act 

and the recommendations from the President’s Task Force on Veterans Employment. I am also interested in learning how the Departments will measure the effectiveness of these changes and 

whether there continues to be gaps in the program that need further focus. 

Thank you all again for being here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

We look forward to the hearing. 

[The prepared statement of Mrs. Davis can be found in the Appendix on page 27.] 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Mrs. Davis. And we will be having votes 

at any time. We would proceed right away to hear your testimony, 

and then we will very likely recess and then come back. And so, 

Dr. Kelly, we will begin with your testimony. As a reminder, please 

keep your statements to 3 minutes. We have your written statements for the record. 

Thank you again for being here today. 

STATEMENT OF DR. SUSAN S. KELLY, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, 

TRANSITION TO VETERANS PROGRAM OFFICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE 

Dr. KELLY. Thank you, Chairman Wilson, and thank you, Ranking Member Davis and the distinguished members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to be here today, joined by 

my colleagues from the Departments of Veterans Affairs, and 

Labor, to discuss the status of the Department’s implementation of 

the requirements of the VOW to Hire Heroes Act of 2011. Our 

progress on the redesign of the Transition Assistance Program, 

known as TAP, and the DOD’s [Department of Defense] views on 

H.R. 631, the ‘‘Servicemembers’ Choice in Transition Act of 2013.’’ 

TAP, the cornerstone of the Department’s transition efforts, is 

now a collaborative partnership among the Departments of Defense, Veterans Affairs, Labor, Education, the Small Business Administration, and the Office of Personnel Management. It is the 

primary platform used to deliver an array of services and benefits 

information to separated service members. Our overall goal at DOD 

is to ensure those who are leaving the service are prepared for 

their next step, whether that step is pursuing additional education, 

finding a job in the public or private sector, or starting their own 

business. 

To that end, the Department and its partners have fundamentally redesigned TAP, making the needs of today’s service members 

and their families a top priority. The redesigned TAP was built 

around four core objectives discussed in detail in my written statement. The culmination of the TAP redesign efforts, the Transition 

GPS—which stands for ‘‘Goals, Plans, Success’’—encompasses the 

requirements of the VOW Act. Moreover, the redesigned TAP establishes the new career readiness standards, extends the transition preparation through the entire span of a service member’s career, and provides counseling to facilitate the development of an individual transition plan. 

The Department and our interagency partners are implementing 

the redesigned TAP according to the mandates and the intent of 

the VOW Act and the recommendations from the Veterans Employ-
4 

ment Initiative Task Force. We have been implementing part of the 

redesign since November of 2012, and we are currently in the second phase of implementation of Transition GPS, which is targeted 

for completion by the end of fiscal year 2013. Furthermore, we are 

on course toward implementing the military life cycle transition 

model by the end of fiscal year 2014. 

The objective of the model is for transition to become a wellplanned, organized progression that empowers service members to 

make informed career decisions and take responsibility for advancing their personal goals. 

At this time, I would like to briefly address H.R. 631. The Department’s view is that this legislation would negatively impact 

transitioning service members and would significantly impede the 

full implementation of the redesigned TAP. DOD and the military 

departments, and our interagency partners, are successfully implementing the redesigned TAP. 

The Department believes that the best course of action at this 

time is not to provide another prescriptive legislative remedy, but 

to let us and our partners continue the implementation of a new 

redesigned TAP. Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. On 

behalf of the men and women in the military today, and their families, I thank you and the members of this subcommittee for your 

steadfast support and leadership in this important area. 

I am happy to answer any questions you or the other members 

of the subcommittee may have. 

[The prepared statement of Dr. Kelly can be found in the Appendix on page 29.] 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you very much, Dr. Kelly. 

We now proceed to Mr. Moran. 

STATEMENT OF JOHN K. MORAN, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY, VETERANS’ EMPLOYMENT AND TRAINING SERVICE, 

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR 

Mr. MORAN. Good afternoon, Chairman Wilson, Ranking Member 

Davis, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to participate in today’s hearing. My name is John Moran, 

and I am honored to serve as the Deputy Assistant Secretary for 

the Veterans’ Employment and Training Service at the Department 

of Labor. DOL [Department of Labor] is committed to preparing 

service members and their families to transition from the military 

to the civilian workforce. 

The Transition Assistance Program, or TAP, is an integral part 

of these efforts. TAP is an interagency effort among DOL, VA [Department of Veterans Affairs], DOD, DHS [Department of Homeland Security], and various other agencies. Together, we work to 

provide separating service members and their spouses with the 

training and support they need to successfully transition to the civilian workforce. Through TAP, DOL brings to bear its extensive 

expertise in employment services to provide a comprehensive 3-day 

workshop at U.S. military installations around the world. 

To date, the Department have provided the employment workshop to over 2.6 million separating or retiring service members and 

their spouses. Last year alone, DOL conducted more than 4,500 

employment workshops for over 160,000 participants. In August 
5 

2011 the Department initiated a major effort aimed at revamping 

and updating the employment workshop curriculum. The result is 

a highly effective workshop that reflects the best practices in career 

development and adult learning. Around the same time the Department initiated the redesign, the President established the joint VEI 

[Veterans Employment Initiative] Task Force to develop proposals 

to maximize the career readiness of all service members. 

The task force recommended the fundamental redesign of TAP. 

This launched a coordinated effort to adopt and implement the 

training and service of the remodel, called Transition GPS. The 

VOW Act mandated several reforms to further enhance TAP, including mandatory participation in the employment workshop. In 

addition, the VOW Act requires DOL to use contract facilitators to 

ensure a standardized, high-quality professional cadre of instructors. The Department has completed the transfer to contract facilitation and has successfully rolled out the new workshop at all military installations. 

DOL has worked closely with its partner agencies to ensure that 

the redesigned employment workshop is seamlessly integrated into 

the overall Transition GPS model. Between February and April 

2012, DOL conducted a 3-month pilot of the redesigned TAP employment workshop at 11 military installations. Based on the pilot 

findings and comments from hundreds of different organizations 

and individuals, DOL fine-tuned the curriculum which is in use 

today. The redesigned workshop has incorporated training best 

practices in adult learning, and increased emphasis on networking 

and communicating the veterans’ job skills to employers. 

The new curriculum was specifically geared toward the mechanics of getting a good job. Participants learn how to explore career 

interests, understand the labor market, build re ́sume ́s, prepare for 

interviews and negotiate job offers. I am happy to report that the 

new curriculum has been well received. Student feedback from over 

2,000 attendees during January and February of this year gave the 

employment workshop an overall rating of 4.4 on a 1-to-5 scale. 

The data strongly suggests the Department’s revised employment 

workshop is meeting the high expectations of its customers. 

Finally, I would like to mention the Department has serious concerns about H.R. 631, the ‘‘Servicemembers’ Choice in Transition 

Act of 2013,’’ which would negatively impact our transitioning service members. The Department looks forward to working with the 

subcommittee to ensure that our transitioning service members 

have the resources and training they need to successfully transition 

to the civilian workforce. 

Mr. Chairman, distinguished members of the subcommittee, this 

concludes my statement. Thank you for the opportunity to testify 

today, and I would be pleased to answer any questions you may 

have. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Moran can be found in the Appendix on page 52.] 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Mr. Moran. 

And we now proceed with Director Pummill. 
6 

STATEMENT OF DANNY PUMMILL, DIRECTOR, VETERANS BENEFITS ADMINISTRATION—DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE PROGRAM OFFICE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS 

Mr. PUMMILL. Chairman Wilson, Ranking Member Davis, and 

members of the subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today. In August 2011 the President announced his 

comprehensive plan to address the issues of unemployment and the 

educational and entrepreneurial opportunities for returning service 

members and veterans struggling to find jobs suitable with their 

experience and talent. 

In December 2011, the task force provided recommendations to 

the President for a redesigned Transition Assistance Program 

called GPS. These overarching recommendations intend to transfer 

service members’ transition to veteran status into a well-planned, 

organized process which equips them to make informed career decisions and advance them toward achievement of their goals. The 

end state will be a transform process that places throughout a service member’s military career in addition to the new Transition GPS 

program. 

VA is also working with the Army in delivering virtual briefings 

to service members across the globe. Additionally, we are working 

with DOD to develop online courses of the VA briefing to be housed 

in DOD’s joint knowledge online Web site. This will allow participants to access courses according to their own schedules and train 

at their own pace. Our new format is dynamic, instructor-led and 

classroom-based. Quantity delivery of VA products and services is 

essential to the success of the Transition GPS and implementation 

of the task force VEI recommendations. 

VA continues to make recommendations and improvements to 

the curriculum on a quarterly basis through feedback provided by 

service members, briefers and VA subject matter experts to ensure 

consistency and accuracy of the program and individual presentation skills. We have set high standards for our contract briefers 

delivering the enhanced briefings. During the 2-week training process, where they learn presentation skills in the VA curriculum, 

they are required to take a written examination that measures 

their ability to research and understand VA benefits. 

The evaluation is also put in place to measure instructor proficiency in presenting a 4-hour and a 2-hour VA briefing. Trainees 

must show proficiency in their platform skills in order to pass the 

training. Criteria for evaluating briefers includes accuracy in relaying content, professionalism, student engagement, use of technology, and control of the classroom. Briefers who do not meet the 

minimum proficiency will be provided additional guidance, education and assistance to help them achieve the minimum standards. If they are unable to achieve the minimum standards, then 

we let them go. 

In conclusion, the VA is honored to continue our role in assisting 

with the transition of service members from military to civilian life. 

I would also like to take this opportunity to express VA’s respect 

and appreciation to our partner agencies in this unprecedented endeavor to assist service members and their families. This program 

is designed to give men and women in the service and their fami-
7 

lies an opportunity to hear and learn more about their benefits, research benefits, and fit their individual needs. 

VA continually seeks to improve the quality and breadth of our 

outreach service to all Components, Active Duty, Guard and Reserve. And we continue to work with our partner agencies. VA fully 

supports the Administration and congressional efforts to ensure 

that transitioned service members are ready for employment and 

education upon separation. 

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. I would be pleased 

to answer any questions that you or members of the subcommittee 

may have at this time. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Pummill can be found in the Appendix on page 61.] 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Director. And we will now proceed to 

questions. And each subcommittee member will be able to ask 

questions for 5 minutes. We have an expert professional timekeeper. Craig Greene will maintain the time, and very proficient at 

this, including me. And even as we begin, I want to thank you. I 

want to thank you as a member of Congress, but I want to thank 

you as a veteran myself and also the proud Dad, all credit to my 

wife, of four sons serving in the military today. 

So we are a military family. And it is just reassuring to see the 

services and the thoughtfulness that is being provided to our service members. So thank you very much. As we proceed, Mr. Moran, 

you have already actually touched on this, but beginning with Dr. 

Kelly I would like you all to touch further. And that is, the feedback that you receive on the Transition Assistance Program. How 

is the effectiveness? How do you determine if the program is being 

successful? 

Dr. KELLY. Well, we started first by making sure that we had the 

curriculum right and that it was hitting the mark. So this summer 

we piloted curriculums. And with that pilot came an online assessment for participants to provide us feedback, module-by-module. 

And that assessment evaluated if they were mastering their learning objectives. It asked them about the professionalism of the instructors, the facilities, what still needed to be done. So that was 

the online assessment for the members to give us direct feedback, 

and they did. 

We also had, at each pilot site observer teams from across the 

interagency, 10 subject matter experts, go to each one of the pilot 

sites and again conduct a very structured assessment. As well as 

conducting sensing sessions with service members who had gone 

through the previous TAP program and then who went through the 

current pilots, and asked them for their evaluations of the before 

and the after. Nine hundred fifty-four military members went 

through those pilots this summer of just the core curriculum, and 

we had very, very high marks. 

They were mastering the learning objectives, they gave us good, 

strong feedback, and their confidence was increased. And they 

thought they were getting the skills that they needed. So that was 

good feedback to us. We also received feedback to help us modify 

the curriculum and some of with weaknesses that that they identified for us. We modified the curriculum with subject matter experts 

and are relaunched that again. We also have an enduring online 
8 

assessment that we set up so that we continue to get feedback 

anonymously from the participants of the curriculum so that they 

can give us unfettered and direct feedback on—again, as to the curriculum, the facilities, the logistics of getting into the courses, et 

cetera. 

And again, we are measuring the learning outcomes, their confidence, and if they think that these skills are what they need and 

how prepared they are. We also have short-term, medium-term, 

and long-term performance measures across the interagency that 

we will be monitoring. It starts with DOD, with career readiness 

standards, how many of our military are meeting career readiness 

standards. A medium-term one is how many military members are 

receiving credentials or earning their credentials while they are 

still on Active Duty. 

A long-term example would be the number of veterans who complete their course of study at the universities, colleges, and the 

technical institutes. And that will be a measurement that comes 

from both VA and the Department of Education. So there is a 

whole suite of performance measures—immediate, medium-, and 

long-term—that we will be using to assess our return on investment. 

Mr. WILSON. Good. Thank you. 

Mr. Moran. 

Mr. MORAN. Yes, thank you for the question. We obviously have 

been collaborating with DOD and our other partner agencies and 

working together with obtaining the evaluation information at the 

end of each class. So what we are seeing right now, as I mentioned 

in my statement, is that the—— 

Mr. WILSON. Four-point-four? 

Mr. MORAN. I am sorry. Four-point-four out of a five-scale. We 

are getting very high marks. If—I would like to even read to you 

a couple comments that were made. Because in addition to sort of 

the numeric scores, they were allowed to put in some free text. So 

a couple of the comments that were made. ‘‘I didn’t think I had the 

skills for a high-paying job. The DOL employment workshop has 

changed my life.’’ ‘‘I was fearful of my future—however, after the 

DOL workshop I no longer feel fearful, and excited and eager to 

start my new career.’’ ‘‘Thank you for creating this course. It has 

changed my life.’’ 

So we collaborate with DOD and VA to collect all of this evaluative information. We look at it from the DOL employment perspective. Right now, our marks are pretty good. That doesn’t mean we 

are resting on our laurels. In fact, we want to look at an annual 

cycle of curriculum review and revision, as necessary. And we are 

looking at actually taking our evaluation process further than what 

we call the level-one evaluation into something more sophisticated, 

where we are reaching out to these folks after, say, 8 months out 

on the street to see how they can reflect back on the course that 

they did take and how it how it was valuable to them in their current life circumstances or what could have helped it a little bit 

more. 

So we are very engaged in the evaluation process. And it is a 

great one right now, but we even want to extend it a little bit further very shortly. 
9 

Mr. WILSON. Well, thank you. And I apologize, Director, but 

Craig has already tapped me on the wrist. My time is up. 

We proceed to Mrs. Davis. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Pummill, I wanted to ask you first 

about how the Department of Labor tracks industries and the types 

of jobs that are currently available, and where future job opportunities are growing. How do you see that? And I am directing that 

to Mr. Pummill, actually. 

Mr. PUMMILL. I am sorry? 

Mrs. DAVIS. . Well, part of it is that you are being cross-trained, 

right, now? And so I think it is important if we try and understand. 

Do you see that that information is being tracked so that you have 

that information, as well? 

Mr. PUMMILL. Could you repeat the question? 

Mrs. DAVIS. The information about where the jobs are available. 

What jobs are available, where they are available, and where future job opportunities might be. Are you able to access that information? Do you—— 

Mr. PUMMILL. Yes, I am not sure. I will have to find out. I believe it is all at the Department of Labor, and it is in their area 

of expertise. But—I will check with the people at VA that run the 

jobs programs and find out what information they have in additional to this. 

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on 

page 75.] 

Mr. MORAN. So within the Department of Labor, we do labor 

market surveying and research. And we have online tools through 

our Bureau of Labor Statistics to do forecasting of job opportunities 

and future growth. So we have a very powerful tool online called 

My Next Move for Veterans. And within that tool, a veteran can 

put in a military occupational series and look at what the forecast 

is for similar work in the civilian sector over the next 10 years 

down to a city, State or region of the country. 

So online they can go in and they can basically say I want to be 

a welder, where are those jobs? What is the forecast for that type 

of work over the next 10 years? And they can identify the specific 

areas of the country that have better prospects in that area for 

them so they can target their job opportunities and research in 

that area. 

Mrs. DAVIS. And I think part of what we are trying to understand is the extent to which everybody who is engaged in this really is familiar with the kinds of programs and information that is 

really out there. Because in many cases, and I know that we have 

some phenomenal programs in San Diego, for example. They have 

really been working very hard on this. There are many organizations that want to be involved. But the reality is that we don’t necessarily have the opportunities for everybody. 

And so you have to identify where those jobs are. And I think 

that for some programs that have been able to not just employ two 

or three veterans, in some cases, but really are looking for large 

numbers and how—you know, how you make sure that those are 

available. 

Mr. MORAN. There are actually two other comments I would like 

to make. One is that we also work collectively with the Joining 
10 

Forces Initiative at the White House. And there are many companies making commitments to hire thousands of veterans in—and 

service members. So one of the things we make sure we do within 

our employment workshop is get that information out, that fresh 

information out, as it occurs so that our instructors can tell the 

folks in the training class who is making commitments, where 

those commitments are being made, and what type of work is available. 

The other point I wanted to make is that the Department of 

Labor, through its American Job Centers, is also actively engaged 

in working with any veteran or separating service member who is 

looking for assistance to find the work that he or she may want. 

So between those two,the Transition Assistance Program and the 

American Job Centers, I think we have a pretty robust system out 

there right now to help everybody find the type of work that they 

are qualified for and to be able to make decisions about where to 

move in this country to find that work. 

Mrs. DAVIS. All right, my time is up. Mr. Chairman, we will come 

back later and try and focus more on that. Thank you. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you very much. 

Dr. Joe Heck, of Nevada 

Dr. HECK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you all for what 

you are doing to try to make sure that our returning veterans can 

transition to civilian life. I tend to concentrate on the Reserve Components, having spent 23 years in the Reserves. And I know that 

reservists that serve more than 180 days are eligible for the program. But according to the DTM [Directive-Type Memorandum], 

they are supposed to begin their preseparation counseling as soon 

as possible in their remaining periods of service. 

So right now, most tours, at least the initial tours, is, you know, 

1 year. So how can they mobilize, and you know they have a 1-year 

period—and start their transitioning out at the same time that 

they are actually still transitioning in? How is it working for reservists? 

Dr. KELLY. That is a very good question. And I will tell you, that 

is one of the biggest challenges in this particular—in the current 

model of Transition GPS. The Army actually experimented this 

summer trying to find out the best way to give the Transition GPS 

curriculum and all the services and information to the reservists as 

they were demobilizing. The rule that that is followed, though, is 

that they have to go through Transition GPS before they separate. 

There are some exemptions in that DTM in reference to the DOL 

employment workshop and some of the other parts of the curriculum based on if they are returning to a job after their 1-year 

mobilization or if they are returning to a course of study at the university or a college. 

So some of those reservists, as they were coming back, those 

numbers shrank down, if you allow me that term, and not as many 

had to stay for the full course. But the issue that you bring up is 

exactly why the—we have the second spiral and the second model 

of the military life cycle. 

So that preparation for a civilian career, aligning your goals for 

the civilian career, and reservists go back and forth, have a continuum of service. The military life cycle requires the services to 
11 

identify touch points for both the Reserve Component, the Guard, 

and the Active Duty as to when the parts of Transition GPS will 

be provided, as well as what are those touch points that commanders, first sergeants, et cetera, ask that military member to deliberately do some planning as to how they are going to use their 

military training, not only their technical training, but also their 

experiences and leadership in team building, decisionmaking, et 

cetera, and how that is going to apply for their long-term goals in 

their civilian careers. 

Or how can they apply that to the jobs that they are returning 

to as reservists or guardsmen. So that is exactly why we did not 

stay satisfied with a just before you end your Active Duty or your 

mobilization. We are pushing it across the military life cycle. That 

was a major concern for us. 

Dr. HECK. So as that demobilizing reservist is going through the 

GPS process, and they get to that point where they are supposed 

to have their capstone, how is that done for reservists? And what 

happens if that is not accomplished? You know, they are back at 

their demobilization site, or you know they have got a REFRAD 

[Release From Active Duty] order that is going to release them on 

a certain date, if they don’t complete their capstone what happens? 

Dr. KELLY. They are staying to get the through the Transition 

GPS and that capstone. They are having their career readiness 

standards verified before they are sent home. 

Dr. HECK. So they will get an order, an extension of an order, 

to stay on Active Duty until they are? 

Dr. KELLY. They do not, they do not. So this is an institutional 

shift for us. And we have to start embedding that planning, just 

like the Department had to adjust to do the postdeployment health 

assessments, the redeployment health assessments. We had to extend that time when they came back, which decreased the time 

that they could be in-theater. We are going to have to do the same 

in reference to Transition GPS and getting these curriculums 

under their belts. 

But again, that is also why the virtual curriculum is going to be 

so helpful for the Reserve Component, and the Guard. 

Dr. HECK. And then just to, in my remaining minute, you have 

all expressed concerns about H.R. 631. I know, I have read through 

your statements. There is, you know, some detailed concerns. But 

what, in your opinion, is the number one issue behind H.R. 631 

that you think is going to be an impediment to the current transition process? 

Dr. KELLY. As I expressed, I think, in my written statement it 

is the curtailment of the DOL employment workshop, making that 

an optional track. The Department agrees with the original intent 

of the Vow to Hire Heroes Act,that even after you complete college 

education, technology training, you are going to be looking for a job 

and joining that workforce. You need the skills that the DOL employment workshop provides. We think that needs to be sustained 

as mandatory and not an optional track. 

Dr. HECK. And the gentlemen, any other concerns? 

Mr. MORAN. If I could add one concern to that, and it is essentially this, that we are in the process now of rolling out a really 

nice sophisticated new program. And we haven’t really given it an 
12 

opportunity to prove itself fully. And to make changes to that right 

now, we don’t think is in the best interest. I think it makes sense 

to see how this program is working as designed. We think it is 

meeting the mark. We are very confident in it so making changes 

right now just doesn’t seem to be a wise move. 

Dr. HECK. Great. Again, thank you all very much for what you 

are doing for our service members and our veterans. 

I yield back. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Dr. Heck. 

And we will now recess for votes. And we will resume with Congresswoman Madeleine Bordallo, of Guam. 

[Recess.] 

Mr. WILSON. Ladies and gentlemen, the Subcommittee on Military Personnel will resume. And we will proceed to Dr. Brad 

Wenstrup of Ohio. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also would like to 

reiterate what the others have said about the work that you are 

doing to try and help our troops and subsequent veterans make the 

transition. And I was just wondering, is there an opportunity to 

work with the directors of each State VA? Because a lot of times, 

really, jobs available and things like that are well known on a local 

level. And would that be a good avenue to work with DOD directly 

with the State VAs to try and transition people into employment? 

Mr. MORAN. Thank you for the question. Let me first talk about 

what DOL has out there, at the very local level that you speak of, 

to help that process. We have a network of 2,700 job centers across 

the country. And within those job centers, we employ State employees. We fund State employees, called Disabled Veteran Outreach 

Program specialists. Their job is to work with veterans at the local 

level to match them with the jobs they are looking for in that local 

community. 

In addition to the DVOP, Disabled Veteran Outreach Program, 

specialists, we have what is called a local veterans employment 

representative at those sites. Their mission is to be working in the 

local community to find jobs specifically for veterans. So within the 

Department of Labor, we have that structure in place, we are 

working that every day, and it is proving beneficial. Now the VA 

and DOD may also have some programs that they would like to 

speak to. 

Mr. PUMMILL. From a VA perspective, how we get involved is 

mostly with the service members that have a disability, they are 

disabled. And that is through our VR&E [Vocational Rehabilitation 

and Employment] counselors. And basically, we work with them on 

the military installations and in our regional offices on a one-onone basis. Where we provide a counselor to determine what their 

individual disability is, how that impacts their ability to work. And 

then we coordinate with DOL to find out what is available and 

what we can get them into. 

And depending on your disability, depending on what you can 

and can’t do, determines the length of the time that we stay with 

that individual. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you. 

Dr. KELLY. I would like to add to that. One of the main emphasis 

of the TAP redesign was to build a bridge from Active Duty to the 
13 

resources that are in the communities where the military members 

are relocating. So part of that capstone is a warm handoff. If a 

member is deemed at risk or does not have immediate employment 

and wants immediate employment, et cetera, there is a handoff between the TAP managers to the local resources, the DOL American 

Job Centers as well as the veterans centers. 

So that is one of the pieces that was deliberately built into the 

TAP redesign. The warm handoff to a bridge between Active Duty 

and the community resources of our partner agencies. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you very much. 

I yield back. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Dr. Wenstrup. 

We now proceed to Congressman Austin Scott of Georgia. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And ma’am, gentlemen, 

thank you for being here today. And in the testimony about TAP 

you highlight the point that service members can select different 

self-elected tracks. And so my question, and I think this would be 

for you, Dr. Kelly, is when our service members are selecting these 

tracks, higher education, technical training, what tools, if any, are 

we providing them to make sure that they are making a decision 

that is in their best interest? In other words, not falling for aggressive marketing towards service members by institutions that, in 

some cases, may not be accredited? 

Dr. KELLY. Well, we start off first by taking them through an 

MOC [Military Occupation Code] crosswalk comparing what they 

have gained in their military skills; compare that to the civilian occupational codes. Then leading them to the DOL, my next move, 

looking at the geographic location to which they are moving, what 

is in demand in that job market, if the career field that they had 

chosen or their MOC is not going to be in demand in that job market. What is your plan B, where else can you relocate to? Or what 

is the career field, the second career field that you want to choose. 

Both the technical training and the education tracks build upon 

that MOC crosswalk as well as the DOL employment workshop, 

which actually is a very, very detailed step-by-step process to take 

them through the employment market. 

But the education track guides them through a series of questions after they have been through the MOC crosswalk, the DOL 

employment workshop. What is the best institution for your career 

field in your area? What is the best course of study for the career 

field that you have chosen? As well as what is your financial strategy—on top of that Post–9/11 GI Bill, very generous, but what is 

your financial strategy to avoid debt while you are going to school. 

And then finally, how to fill out that application. 

So it is a lot of information, a lot of Web-based tools that are 

kept up to date by the Department of Education and our other 

partner agencies that the military members learn to navigate and 

use over and over again. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you. Can you tell me just briefly what are we 

doing with organizations in our efforts to end misrepresentation to 

our service members. People that are there, quite honestly, just to 

get the money, not to provide an education that is actually going 

to benefit the men and women that have served this country? What 

are we doing today with that? 
14 

Dr. KELLY. We are steering them towards those Web sites sponsored and developed by the Department of Education to show them 

the accredited schools, either nationally accredited or regionally accredited, that are recognized by the Department of Education, that 

are recognized by VA, as reimbursable for their GI Bill. We are 

taking them to the Web sites, the established Web sites from our 

Federal partners and educating them about the institutions that 

are out there. 

The efforts to exploit the service members and use that Post– 

9/11 GI Bill, and they come out with nothing, they are very carefully warned. And that is exactly why we develop the technical 

training track and the education tracks. It is chockfull of information. 

Mr. SCOTT. Are we requiring them to go an accredited institution 

to use the GI Bill? 

Dr. KELLY. Yes. And that is the VA has to approve those institutions for reimbursement for the Post–9/11 GI Bill and the Montgomery GI Bill. But I will let my VA partner speak to that. 

Mr. PUMMILL. Yes, the institutions do have to be approved by the 

VA. And in the course of instruction that we give the service members for both in the Transition program, the 4-hour briefing that 

we give, we have 1 hour dedicated to education. The GI Bill is an 

incredible benefit to service members and their families, and we 

want to make sure it is used wisely and they make the best decisions. 

And the same thing on our technical track. And we tell them 

things like it is, you know, not just a school. Is it accredited university? What is the graduation rate, how do you find out the graduation rate? How much does it cost to go to that school? What kind 

of job are you going to get when you get out? What kind of income 

are you gonna get? Are you going to have any additional bills that 

you have to pay off yourself? And to think through all those things 

and to research them before you make decisions when you want to 

go to a school. 

Mr. SCOTT. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, I am almost 

out of time. 

I will yield the remainder back to you. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you very much, Mr. Scott. And we will proceed with another round for any persons who want to participate. 

Mr. Moran, I am particularly concerned for disabled service 

members. What are the special services that are provided for our 

wounded warriors? 

Mr. MORAN. Yes, thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. The 

programs that we have at the Department of Labor to help wounded warriors begin where we forward-deploy, if you will, our Disabled Veterans Outreach Program specialists from our State offices, to medical treatment facilities. So while the wounded warrior 

is going through care, we are working with that person one-on-one 

to help them understand the labor market they may be interested 

in, how to find a job, help them build a re ́sume ́, work with them 

on interviewing techniques. 

All of the things we do in the Transition Assistance Program for 

a class of 35 to 50 we do, if you will, on an individual basis for the 

wounded warrior right at the bedside. And further, once that per-
15 

son is moved out of the medical treatment facility he may or may 

not go through our TAP program, depending on the ability. We also 

make sure they understand that that DVOP [Disabled Veterans’ 

Outreach Program] specialist is still available to the wounded warrior when they leave the service. They can come through an American Job Center and work again with the DVOP to get the services 

they need to find the job they are looking for and prepare re ́sume ́s, 

interviewing techniques, et cetera. 

And even take advantage of some training opportunities that we 

provide through the Department of Labor if that is necessary to 

land the job he or she is looking for. And the other thing I would 

like to mention is that we are participating with DOD and VA in 

building the virtual TAP solution, as well. So when you have a 

wounded warrior who is not able to make it to a brick and mortar 

classroom, our virtual solution is going to help in that case, as well, 

so that they can take advantage of all the learning that their counterparts who were able to go to brick and mortar receive. 

Mr. WILSON. And do you feel like they understand they have reemployment rights? 

Mr. MORAN. Yes, sir. With respect to reemployment rights, one 

of the other things about DOL is we are not only an employment 

agency, we also protect employment rights. A couple programs we 

have specifically within the organization is protecting rights 

around veterans preference and USERRA [Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act], Uniformed Services Reemployment Act. So we brief all service members routinely, prior 

to deployment, on all of their rights with respect to USERRA, when 

they come back from deployment what their rights are to get back 

into the job they left, what they are—if they were to receive a promotion while they were gone how their rights are protected for that 

particular aspect, as well. 

We also have, throughout the Department of Labor outside of my 

organization, other protection agencies who work with any issues 

that may be present; Office of Federal Contract Compliance, for example, is another area and department that we make sure the contractors who have Federal contracts are employing veterans at the 

appropriate rate. 

Mr. WILSON. And to any of the three of you, is there, in terms 

of metrics, does anyone maintain any substantiation of jobs secured? And then additionally, I was very encouraged. We had a 

jobs—veterans jobs fair at Aiken, South Carolina, on Monday. And 

I was really encouraged. The South Carolina Army National Guard 

has a program which is monitoring unemployment rates among 

veterans. And in South Carolina, to my joy, it went from 16 percent 

to 3.9 percent among veterans. 

And so if you want a good example, South Carolina comes in 

well. And I just know, in meeting with the personnel, that it was 

very encouraging. But has anyone maintained jobs secured or— 

and/or the level of unemployment among veterans? 

Mr. MORAN. Yes, Mr. Chairman. The Department of Labor, 

through the Bureau of Labor Statistics, tracks the unemployment 

rate not only on a monthly and quarterly, but also a yearly, basis. 

Yearly is usually the best statistic because you have a better sampling of the population. And veterans, generally speaking as a 
16 

whole, are employed at a better rate than the average American 

citizen. But then when you look at that further and you break it 

into various categories, then you see some differences among the 

groups. 

So, for example, Gulf War I era veterans have a 5.9 unemployment rate compared to the general population at 8.1 percent. Gulf 

War II veterans have a 9.9 overall unemployment rate, so it is a 

little bit higher than the average population. And then, certainly, 

within that Gulf War II population you have that age that we are 

all concerned about—the 18- to 24-year-old, the generally younger 

person. And those rates are quite a bit higher than most of the 

other rates. So a lot of the efforts all three Departments focus on 

is trying to work that 18- to 24-year-old group to bring that number down as far as we can. 

Mr. WILSON. Well, thank you again for all of your service. 

And we will now proceed to Mrs. Davis. 

Ms. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, you all mention the bridge and the handoff. And I am just wondering, between 

the TAP manager, local resources and the veterans’ center we have 

a lot of organizations that really want to help. I think every community has them, some perhaps more than others depending upon 

their job markets. And I think one of the things that has been a 

little frustrating is the coordination of that. And in some cases, you 

may have groups of the Chamber that have stepped in, you may 

have other military affairs organizations. 

How are you evaluating that, or how can you tell whether there 

is an interface there that is actually working? And what role might 

we have in that, as well? How can we do that better? I guess the 

other question is, the use of social media around some of those extensions of the community that are there. There is no, maybe one 

good place to try and look at this information and understand it 

within communities. How can we help? 

Dr. KELLY. One of the things that we have that has been mandated is the National Resource Directory, which lists all of the resources in local communities. And that is a joint project VA and 

DOD. So that is open,that is on a Web site, the National Resource 

Directory. So that is open to all of our staff members to be able to 

use during this warm handoff that I was describing earlier. So it 

is not only the agencies of the Department of Labor and Veterans 

Affairs, but also any of those helping agencies that is deemed to 

be helpful for that service member or their family during that reintegration into that local community. 

So it is not solely focused on the Department of Labor and Veterans Affairs. We have that great asset, the National Resource Directory, and we use that extensively. 

But in reference to how each one of those local communities mobilize their resources and use them most efficiently and most effectively is a question that we have also asked. DOD, and with the 

executive steering committee, we actually have a study going on 

right now to try to get at least a peek into that, into different communities and to find out if we can identify some best practices at 

each one of those communities. And there are different types of 

communities, and we are eager to see some of the results of that. 
17 

Mrs. DAVIS. Do you have any idea when some of that might be 

available? 

Dr. KELLY. It is a year-long study. It is being conducted by CNA 

[Center for Naval Analyses] for us, and we are very eager to see 

those results. And we will be happy to share those with you. 

Mrs. DAVIS. And I would hope that there is a lot of good outreach 

to the community in trying to really get it from their perspective. 

Ms. KELLY. The researchers are in those communities and actually talking with those agencies. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Are they able to look at social media as well to understand how that might be best used? 

Ms. KELLY. Within those local communities? I don’t think that is 

an aspect of the study. No, I am—that is unfortunate. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes. Okay. Thank you. 

Mr. MORAN. But I would like to add, if I could, that you are on 

to a very important point. What I have seen over the time I have 

been in the Department of Labor is that there has been a lot of activity among everybody to try to solve the problem, if you will, of 

veteran unemployment. And that is good, and everybody should be 

doing what they can. However, sometimes what we see is there are 

so many independent efforts that are disjointed that it can become 

confusing to the service member who is looking for that help or the 

veteran looking for that help. 

So one of the things we have under way right now through the 

Veteran Employment Initiative Task Force is to look at, at least 

within the Federal Government, how can we sort of bring our resources together instead of DOD, VA, DOL, Education, you name 

it, all building some solution for this employment problem. How 

can we bring our resources better together for what we are calling 

the ‘‘Single Portal Initiative.’’ So that we are able to point—this is 

our goal—be able to point to everybody who is interested in trying 

to find a job for a veteran to one single portal that is going to bring 

them to the best applications that are available out there so that 

we no longer have confusion and have veterans hit on a database, 

for example, that has duplicative job announcements or outdated 

job announcements. 

That we know that we are pointing them to the best source that 

is out there. That work is under way right now. In fact, a meeting 

of that group is happening this afternoon. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, that would be good to know. I would love to 

get that information. 

[The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on 

page 75.] 

Mrs. DAVIS. Because I actually think that there is a group that 

I am aware of that is working on that in a regional way. And so 

that would be helpful also. 

And very, very briefly, where you have groups of individuals, for 

example, retired physicians who would like to be helpful in helping 

bridge the gap between corpsmen, for example, and other health 

providers that we really need in our system today and they want— 

so how are we organized to take in some of that interest and to be 

able to direct people to resources? Is there any way to do that at 

this point? Is that all local, you know? 
18 

Mr. PUMMILL. From a VA perspective, we have had some success 

through our Veterans Service Organizations. We have a long history of dealing with them. You know—the VFW [Veterans of Foreign Wars], AMVETS [American Veterans], Paralyzed Veterans, 

Purple Hearts—that seem to be all over the country and have a 

good idea of what is going on in communities. We have even invited 

them to our sessions, particularly out in your district out in San 

Diego. They attended all the TAP briefings and stuff like that to 

give us ideas and give us some input. 

We are also finding in the VA that there are some organizations 

out there, private organizations, NGOs [Non-Governmental Organizations] that do a really good job at this, at transition. And we 

are—we don’t have a formal method yet, but we are trying to figure 

out as part of, you know, studies VA how do we get to them, how 

do we get to their ideas and stuff like that. And we are just at the 

beginning of that, though, right now. 

Mrs. DAVIS. Okay, thank you. Thanks, thank you all for being 

here. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Mrs. Davis. 

We now proceed to Dr. Wenstrup. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Yes, just one quick question. We were talking 

about some of these ancillary agencies that are diligently trying to 

help our troops, as well. Are you familiar or have you have any 

contact with the Easter Seals program, the Dixon Center? That 

seems to be a fairly large one. Admiral Mullen, I believe, is working with them and people like Gary Sinise. And I didn’t know if 

you have any familiarity with that agency and any connection with 

them at all. 

Mr. MORAN. I do have some familiarity with it. I am not steeped 

in knowledge on it. I know that they are out there. They are an 

organization that is trying to help crack this nut relative to veteran 

unemployment. We do work a lot with hundreds of different organizations. We are constantly at the Department of Labor Veterans’ 

Employment Training Service meeting with everybody on who is 

doing what and trying to see how we can help and collaborate with 

each others efforts. I am aware we have worked with Easter Seals, 

but I don’t have a lot of detail on that right now. 

Mr. PUMMILL. We do, Congressman—on the VA side from VHA, 

the Veterans Health Administration, especially with the wounded 

warriors, deal with a lot of those agencies in transitioning them 

back to civilian life. They have a lot that they can provide us as 

far as the severely disabled, the soldiers and marines that have 

lost limbs and things like that. They have a lot of experience with 

that, and we share a lot of information. As far as jobs and stuff like 

that, though, I wouldn’t know. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. I get the impression they are fairly large because 

I have seen them in several cities making their pitch and bringing 

companies together and giving large presentations to big companies 

in my district—Procter & Gamble, Cintas—and trying to work with 

them. And it might be a good relationship to build in some way, 

and maybe we can help facilitate that here. 

Dr. KELLY. We are actually meeting under the efforts of the Joining Forces efforts with Mrs. Obama and Dr. Biden, with the Fortune 500 companies and with the companies that are signed up 
19 

with the 100,000 Jobs Initiative, looking at mentoring, using those 

private corporations who have members or employers who are willing to mentor service members as they become veterans and also 

while they are veterans. The Small Business Administration has 

also stepped up to a tremendous commitment for the service members. 

They have developed the entrepreneurship track, a 2-day curriculum. And at the end of that 2-day curriculum the service members are invited to complete an online—an 8-week course online 

free of charge. And at the end of that course they are connected to 

a mentor, small business mentor, a successful businessman, a successful businesswoman in that same area to help the service member veteran through those first years as a small business. So there 

are lots of mentoring efforts that we are engaged in, but not oneon-one through DOD. It is through the Joining Forces, 100 

[100,000] Jobs Initiative, the Small Business Administration, et 

cetera. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Thank you. And along the line of skills training 

or getting a 4-year degree, whatever the case may be, do you feel 

that the potential students are readily informed of what the job opportunities are with that? In other words, you know, not a great 

time to necessarily get a degree in philosophy and expect to find 

a job, you know. No offense to anyone who has got a philosophy degree. But do you know what I am saying? I mean, are they aware 

of what the odds are of finding employment after going through 

that training? 

Dr. KELLY. Well, again, the DOL employment workshop does a 

terrific job of taking those service members to those Web sites, particularly My Next Move. Again, that geographic location, the job 

market, what is the prospect for that particular career field for the 

next 10 years. It has green jobs. And in the pilots that I have sat 

through, the military members just jump on that Web site. They 

are thrilled to see it; you have a hard time pulling them off of it 

to proceed with the rest of the curriculum. Very, very valuable. My 

Next Move and O*NET. So those are tremendous Web sites for 

that. 

Mr. MORAN. If I could also, if a veteran comes into an American 

Job Center that I spoke of earlier a piece of the process is to sit 

down with that person and ask, you know, what are you interested 

in? What kind of training do you have already? And be able to assess gaps that may be in that training. And then through the 

American Job Center, we are able to provide veterans with various 

training opportunities to fill those gaps. 

So they may want to be, as I said earlier, a welder. And they 

have so much training towards that goal, but they need a couple 

more courses. Through an American Jobs Center service they can 

get those courses free of charge, which will position them for the 

job. And, of course, American Jobs Center can also work with them 

to actually attach them to the employer. So that is what the DOL 

brings to the table on that. 

Dr. WENSTRUP. Well, thank you very much. And thanks for all 

you are doing. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Dr. Wenstrup. And thank all of you for 

being here today. We can certainly see your commitment to work-
20 

ing with military service members, military families and retirees. 

So thank you for what you are doing. 

There is no further business. The Subcommittee on Military Personnel shall be adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 3:44 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] 
A P P E N D I X 

APRIL 24, 2013 

PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD 

APRIL 24, 2013 

(25) 

Statement of Hon. Joe Wilson 

Chairman, House Subcommittee on Military Personnel 

Hearing on 

Status of Implementation of the Requirements of the VOW 

Act and the Recommendations of the Presidential Veterans 

Employment Initiative Task Force for the DOD Transition 

Assistance Program—Goals, Plans, and Success (GPS) 

April 24, 2013 

Today the subcommittee will hear testimony on the Transition 

Assistance Program run by the Department of Defense, Department of Labor, and Department of Veterans Affairs which assist 

transitioning military members as they prepare to separate from 

their military service to civilian life. Normally the military transitions just as many service members back to society as they enlist 

every year; but during the next several years as the military reduces end strength, that number will grow, so it is critical that 

transitioning service members are provided with the right information they need to make important decisions to support their future 

endeavors. 

When Congress established Transition Assistance Program in 

1991, the military was also undergoing a drawdown; but it was not 

conducted after more than 10 years of combat with men and 

women participating in multiple combat deployments. The high 

number of deployments and the high unemployment rate for post– 

9/11 veterans has generated several changes that affect the program. First, the VOW to Hire Heroes Act of 2011 requires all service members who have been on Active Duty for more than 180 days 

to participate in the program. Second, the Veterans Employment 

Initiative Task Force made recommendations to revamp and improve the existing program to ensure members were provided the 

information and services they needed, tailored to their postmilitary 

initiatives. 

Today we will hear from the witnesses about the status of implementation, the changes and improvements to Transition Assistance 

Program, and what mechanisms are available to indentify and 

share best practices, receive feedback from service members, and 

how does each agency define success. 
26 

I would like to welcome our distinguished witnesses: 

• Dr. Susan S. Kelly, Deputy Director, Transition to Veterans 

Program Office, Department of Defense; 

• Mr. John K. Moran, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Veterans’ 

Employment and Training Service, Department of Labor; 

and 

• Mr. Danny Pummill, Director, Veterans Benefits Administration—Department of Defense Program Office, Department of 

Veterans Affairs. 
27 

Statement of Hon. Susan A. Davis 

Ranking Member, House Subcommittee on Military 

Personnel 

Hearing on 

Status of Implementation of the Requirements of the VOW 

Act and the Recommendations of the Presidential Veterans 

Employment Initiative Task Force for the DOD Transition 

Assistance Program—Goals, Plans, and Success (GPS) 

April 24, 2013 

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased that we are holding this important 

hearing on the current status of the transition assistance program. 

Let me also welcome our witnesses, Dr. Kelly, Mr. Moran, and Mr. 

Pummill. Welcome. We appreciate all of you being here. 

Today’s hearing will focus on how the Departments of Defense, 

Labor, and Veterans Affairs are working together to enhance the 

transition of service members back to their communities. Over the 

past several years, the unemployment levels of those who have 

served in Iraq and Afghanistan have received much attention. 

Many of these individuals following their service returned home to 

a job market that has been challenging, to say the least, and to 

communities that have been hard hit economically. 

While the economy and the job market continue to slowly improve, the transition of service members remains a focus of attention. Efforts to improve the transition services provided to service 

members to ensure that they are provided the tools they need to 

ensure a smooth reentry into society is vital to ensure the longterm stability of these individuals. 

In our efforts to help service members transition, there has been 

considerable attention paid to how we can improve the transfer of 

military skills and certifications, but what is less clear is whether 

we have an understanding of where the jobs in the private sector 

really are, and whether these new programs provide the capacity 

for a service member to transition their skills to meet the demands 

of the job market. 

For example, in 2012, we authorized the Services to allow 

transitioning service members to participate in apprenticeship programs while still in service. The program in San Diego, which I 

have visited a number of times, is quite impressive and has trained 

a number of marines who have gone into civilian jobs following 

their successful completion of the program. 

Transitioning out of the service and back into civilian life can be 

one of the most stressful events in a person’s life. It is important 

we provide the tools these individuals need to succeed. 
28 

I look forward to hearing from our witnesses, especially on how 

we are doing to implement the new requirements under the VOW 

Act and the recommendations from the President’s Task Force on 

Veterans Employment. I am also interested in learning how the 

Departments will measure the effectiveness of these changes, and 

whether there continues to be gaps in the program that need further focus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 
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WITNESS RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS ASKED DURING 

THE HEARING 

APRIL 24, 2013 

(75) 

RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MRS. DAVIS 

Mr. PUMMILL. [The information was not available at the time of printing.] [See 

page 9.] 

Mr. MORAN. The Department of Labor does a great deal of work with the Easter 

Seals program and strongly supports their efforts on behalf of Veterans, including 

the work being done by the Dixon Center. In addition, the Department has provided 

funding to Easter Seals organizations throughout the country through our discretionary grants programs such as the Homeless Veterans’ Reintegration Program 

(HVRP). [See page 17.] 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS POST HEARING 

APRIL 24, 2013 

(79) 

QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. GIBSON 

Mr. GIBSON. 1) With regard to the VRAP program, according to the VA, as of 

today, there are currently 113,914 applications received, 98,132 applications approved, and yet only 43,637 veterans currently enrolled in training. 

a) What is the delay in getting these veterans enrolled into the training program? 

b) What steps have DOL and VA taken to increase staffing to meet the additional 

demand for the VRAP? 

c) I hear reports of conflicting acceptance letters to the VRAP program being sent 

to veterans that are subsequently followed by VRAP program denial letters. In these 

cases where an approval letter has been received and training begun, the veteran 

is stuck with a bill for this training. Are you aware if this is happening, and if so, 

why it is happening? 

d) Does the VA Educational Office in Buffalo have the resources it needs in order 

to accomplish their mission? 

e) Do you see any issue with the VA centralizing educational and job training 

claims at one claims center? (Buffalo) 

Dr. KELLY. The Veterans Retraining Assistance Program (VRAP) offers a limited 

number of months of retraining assistance to Veterans who meet specific criteria. 

This program is managed by the Department of Veterans Affairs and Department 

of Labor, who can best provide you with the enrollment status, staffing, resources, 

and management of VRAP. 

Mr. GIBSON. 2) With regard to the VRAP program, according to the VA, as of 

today, there are currently 113,914 applications received, 98,132 applications approved, and yet only 43,637 veterans currently enrolled in training. 

a) What is the delay in getting these veterans enrolled into the training program? 

b) What steps have DOL and VA taken to increase staffing to meet the additional 

demand for the VRAP? 

c) I hear reports of conflicting acceptance letters to the VRAP program being sent 

to veterans that are subsequently followed by VRAP program denial letters. In these 

cases where an approval letter has been received and training begun, the veteran 

is stuck with a bill for this training. Are you aware if this is happening, and if so, 

why it is happening? 

d) Does the VA Educational Office in Buffalo have the resources it needs in order 

to accomplish their mission? 

e) Do you see any issue with the VA centralizing educational and job training 

claims at one claims center? (Buffalo) 

Mr. MORAN. a) The online VRAP application process requires each eligible veteran 

to have in mind the course of instruction, their ‘‘high demand’’ training objective 

and the training institution they have selected before their application is submitted. 

Once the appropriate Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) office approves each application, a certificate of enrollment (CoE) is issued to the veteran. Each veteran is 

responsible to take the CoE issued to their selected place of training to enroll. 

b) The VRAP program has a relatively short authorized time period and no additional resources were appropriated for the Department of Labor’s (DOL or Department) administrative costs. As a result, the Department of Labor has not increased 

permanent Federal staff in response to our VRAP responsibilities. However, the Department did redirect funding from other activities to implement VRAP including 

entering into contracts for technical assistance and information technology needs 

that are necessary to support DOL in responding to the additional demands created 

by VRAP. 

c) DOL sends an e-mail to all veterans who receive a CoE from the VA. This email is separate from the VA’s approval/denial letters and the Department defers 

to the VA on issues relating to those letters. However, the Department of Labor is 

committed to assisting veterans that received VRAP denial letters in a variety of 

ways including helping them understand the reason for the denial and how to properly process appeals. In addition, State agencies receive information about individuals that were terminated from VRAP for noncompliance with the program requirements in order to contact those individuals to offer them alternative training and 

employment related services. Veterans receive priority of service in all DOL-funded 
80 

employment and training programs, including the many programs operated out of 

the American Job Centers (AJC) across the Nation. 

d) The Department of Labor defers to the VA on subparts (d) and (e). 

Mr. GIBSON. 3) With regard to the VRAP program, according to the VA, as of 

today, there are currently 113,914 applications received, 98,132 applications approved, and yet only 43,637 veterans currently enrolled in training. 

a) What is the delay in getting these veterans enrolled into the training program? 

b) What steps have DOL and VA taken to increase staffing to meet the additional 

demand for the VRAP? 

c) I hear reports of conflicting acceptance letters to the VRAP program being sent 

to veterans that are subsequently followed by VRAP program denial letters. In these 

cases where an approval letter has been received and training begun, the veteran 

is stuck with a bill for this training. Are you aware if this is happening, and if so, 

why it is happening? 

d) Does the VA Educational Office in Buffalo have the resources it needs in order 

to accomplish their mission? 

e) Do you see any issue with the VA centralizing educational and job training 

claims at one claims center? (Buffalo) 

Mr. PUMMILL. [The information was not available at the time of printing.] 

Æ