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51–029 PDF 2011

S. Hrg. 111–803 

NOMINATION OF ROBERT M. GROVES 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

OF THE

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

NOMINATION OF ROBERT M. GROVES TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE 

CENSUS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE 

MAY 15, 2009 

Available via http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/index.html 

Printed for the use of the 

Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs 

( 


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(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut, Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

ROLAND W. BURRIS, Illinois 

MICHAEL F. BENNET, Colorado 

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio 

JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada 

LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina 

MICHAEL L. ALEXANDER, Staff Director 

KRISTINE V. LAM, Professional Staff Member 

VELVET D. JOHNSON, Counsel, Subcommittee on Federal Financial Management, Government 

Information, Federal Services, and International Security 

BRANDON L. MILHORN, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

JENNIFER L. TARR, Minority Counsel 

TRINA DRIESSNACK TYRER, Chief Clerk 

PATRICIA R. HOGAN, Publications Clerk and GPO Detailee 

LAURA W. KILBRIDE, Hearing Clerk 


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C O N T E N T S 

Opening statements: Page 

Senator Carper ................................................................................................. 1 

Senator Levin .................................................................................................... 1 

Senator Akaka .................................................................................................. 9 

Senator Collins ................................................................................................. 15 

Prepared statement: 

Senator Lieberman ........................................................................................... 29 

WITNESS 

FRIDAY, MAY 15, 2009 

Robert M. Groves to be Director of the Census, U.S. Department of Commerce: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 31 

Biographical and financial information .......................................................... 33 

Responses to pre-hearing questions ................................................................ 59 

Letter from the Office of Government Ethics ................................................. 100 

Responses to post-hearing questions for the Record ..................................... 101 

Letters of support ............................................................................................. 103 


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NOMINATION OF ROBERT M. GROVES 

FRIDAY, MAY 15, 2009 

U.S. SENATE, COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:32 a.m., in room 

SD–342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R. Carper, 

presiding. 

Present: Senators Carper, Levin, Akaka, and Collins. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER 

Senator CARPER. The Committee will come to order. Welcome. I 

just want to take a moment to talk about the agenda here today. 

We will start off by calling on our colleague Senator Carl Levin to 

introduce our nominee, and after he has done that, he is welcome 

to stay for as long as he would like. I know he has a lot on his 

plate, but if he can stay, he is welcome to stay for as long as his 

schedule permits. 

After he has spoken, I will give an opening statement, a fairly 

lengthy one. We will swear in our witness. We have to ask you to 

stand and take an oath, and then after you have given your statement, we will break for lunch. We will take 2 hours for lunch. 

[Laughter.] 

We will not break for lunch. We will go right into questions and 

answers, and we will probably be out of here, my guess, within an 

hour and a half. Several of our colleagues are going to be joining 

us, and as they come, they will have the opportunity to make statements and to join in the questioning. 

We are delighted that you are here, and Senator Levin, we are 

especially glad that you are here to introduce Dr. Groves to us 

today. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LEVIN 

Senator LEVIN. Chairman Carper, thanks for your introduction, 

your comments, your constant goodwill, good nature, and hospitality. Thank you. 

I am pleased to introduce Robert Groves to the Committee this 

morning. Mr. Groves is a long-time Michigan resident. He has been 

part of the University of Michigan community since he began his 

master’s study in Ann Arbor in 1970. He graduated summa cum 

laude from Dartmouth College with a degree in sociology, and he 

earned master’s degrees in statistics and sociology and a doctorate 

in sociology from the University of Michigan. He is currently a proVerDate Nov 24 2008 14:34 Jan 11, 2011 Jkt 051029 PO 00000 Frm 00005 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\51029.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT

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fessor in the Department of Sociology and, most significantly, I believe, is the Director of the University of Michigan’s Survey Research Center. 

He is, to put it mildly, a highly respected expert in survey methodology and statistics, and I want to reassure the Chairman, he is 

also a strong fan of the Detroit Tigers. [Laughter.] 

And I say that because our Chairman is a strong fan of the Detroit Tigers. 

Senator CARPER. We will go right to the confirmation at this 

time. [Laughter.] 

Senator LEVIN. Mr. Groves’ mentor throughout graduate school 

was Professor Leslie Kish, who is one of the greatest statisticians 

of our time. He was also the father of Carla Kish, who was a staffer 

in my office about 20 years ago. I believe that she is here today 

as one of his guests. 

Professor Kish was his mentor through graduate school and 

throughout their careers. Professor Kish and Mr. Groves collaborated extensively, researching ways to improve surveys. Professor 

Kish was behind the idea of an annual rolling census of the population, which led to the creation of the American Community Survey. He was also instrumental in the wide acceptance of probability 

sampling. 

The Chairman could ask our nominee what that is because I 

know it sounds good, but I am not sure exactly what that does 

mean. [Laughter.] 

As head of the Institute for Social Research and the Survey Research Center, he heads one of the most important research institutes in our country. It is the largest academic-based research institute of its kind in the world. It has educated many of our Nation’s scientific leaders in the field of survey statistics. And he was 

elected by the research faculty to lead that center in 2001. That is 

what his peers think of him. 

He also has experience at the U.S. Census Bureau itself. In 1982, 

he was a visiting statistician at the Census Bureau. He returned 

to the Census Bureau 8 years later and served as the Associate Director for Statistical Design Standards and Methodology. He has 

written several books and dozens of articles and book chapters on 

survey methods. Much of his work has focused on increasing response rates to polls and surveys. He has used his research and expertise to help design surveys for numerous agencies, organizations, and universities, including the National Institutes of Health, 

the American Lung Association, Cornell University, and the National Center for Educational Statistics. 

He has been endorsed for the position of Director of the Census 

Bureau by many scientific and professional associations, including 

the American Statistical Association, the American Sociological Association, and the Council of American Survey Research Organizations. 

And perhaps most significantly, I believe perhaps the most significant endorsement of all, far more important surely than mine, 

he has been endorsed by six former Directors of the U.S. Census 

Bureau who were appointed by both Republican and Democratic 

Presidents. These include Presidents Carter and Reagan, President 

George Herbert Walker Bush, President Clinton, and President 


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1The letter referenced by Senator Levin appears in the Appendix on page 112. 

George W. Bush. So the Census Bureau Directors for all those 

Presidents wrote a letter to the Committee, and this letter has 

been received, I know, by the Committee.1 I am tempted to read 

from it, but I think I will not in the interest of time, other than 

to say it is a glowing endorsement of our nominee. And I know it 

will be made part of the record. And, again, to me this is the most 

significant endorsement that any nominee for the Census Bureau 

can receive—the support of Directors under Presidents of both parties for this position. 

So Dr. Groves is before you today because of his expertise in survey methodology and statistics. He is driven by a desire to be of 

public service. His hallmarks have been and will be his belief in 

scientific methods and his independence. And that pursuit of 

science and his characteristic of personal integrity and independence are the characteristics required by the position to which he 

has been nominated. 

So it is a pleasure of mine to be with you today, and I thank you 

again, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing and hope that this 

can proceed expeditiously after consideration by this Committee 

and the Senate because I know there is a great need to have this 

position filled so we can get on with the next census, which is looming before us. 

I thank our Chairman. I will not be able to stay, and I know our 

nominee, after your comments, when it is his turn, will introduce 

his family and perhaps one or two of his supporting crew. 

I have taken a statistical sample of the people who are with him 

this morning. They are 100 percent supportive. [Laughter.] 

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator CARPER. Senator Levin, before you leave, I just want to 

say to Dr. Groves that we received the letter to the Committee 

signed by all the former Directors of the Census for 30 years or so. 

At first, our inclination was to be quite favorably impressed by it. 

On closer inspection, I became suspicious that the signatures all 

looked very much like Carl Levin’s signature. [Laughter.] 

That is probably just a coincidence. We will figure that out when 

we get into the hearing. 

Senator Levin, thank you so much. 

Welcome one and all. Dr. Groves, your nomination, as you know, 

comes at a critical time for the Census Bureau. While the agency 

is not among the largest in the Federal Government, it nonetheless 

plays an integral role in the day-to-day operations of our Federal 

Government. 

Most people know that the Census Bureau is the government 

agency that counts the population every 10 years. Less known is 

that it regularly provides government, businesses, and academia 

with an updated picture, really a photograph, of who we are, a portrait of who we are as individuals, as communities, and as a Nation. 

As one of the Federal Government’s few constitutionally mandated functions, the decennial census determines how many seats 

each State gets in the U.S. House of Representatives and how hunVerDate Nov 24 2008 14:34 Jan 11, 2011 Jkt 051029 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 P:\DOCS\51029.TXT SAFFAIRS PsN: PAT

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dreds of billions of dollars in Federal assistance will be apportioned 

out to State and local governments. 

Earlier this week, we held a field hearing in Philadelphia at the 

National Constitution Center. A beautiful place. But one of the 

things that we learned is—in my State, we only have one congressional district, so it is not hard to figure out how to structure that 

district—in Pennsylvania, not only does the census help them determine how many congressional seats they will have, but where 

those seats will be, how to carve out the State legislative seats, and 

how really to carve out councilmanic seats in the City of Philadelphia. So in terms of the political structure of our States, our communities, there is a lot of input here by the census, great reliance 

on the census. 

Finding and enumerating nearly 300 million individuals and the 

correct locations is, of course, an extremely daunting task. And 

every one of those people who signed that letter endorsing your 

candidacy knows full well of what I speak. But since I took over 

as chairman of the subcommittee with oversight over the Census 

Bureau, I have been struck by the complexity of the undertaking 

and by the amount of staff and resources needed to get this job 

done, to accurately count the people in our country, and to do so 

in a cost-effective manner. 

The census requires years of planning, as you know, years of 

preparation, followed by lightning execution in real time without 

any flaws. And looking back at the 2000 census, it involved the hiring of nearly a half million temporary workers, opening over 500 

local Census Bureau offices nationwide, and following up with 42 

million households who had not responded. 

Given the sheer magnitude of such an undertaking, a shortcoming in one area can quickly have a domino effect on other operations. For example, a low mail response rate would increase the 

nonresponse follow-up workload, which in turn would drive up the 

Census Bureau’s staffing needs and drive up costs. 

With each census, the challenge continues to grow in terms of 

cost and complexity as our population becomes larger, more diverse, and increasingly difficult to count. The cost of the 2010 census has escalated to an estimated $14 billion, making it the most 

expensive census that history has seen, at least in this country so 

far. Put another way, it will cost our Nation an estimated $100 to 

count each household in 2010, compared to $56 in 2000 and $13 

in 1970. 

The growing cost of the census at a time when the Federal Government is facing an unprecedented budget deficit highlights the 

importance of making sure that each additional dollar spent on our 

census actually improves the quality of the data. 

The 2010 census is approaching rapidly with Census Day now 

less than a year away. The Census Bureau has faced many operational and management challenges that have jeopardized its success. These challenges include under-funding by the last Administration for outreach to minority communities and the colossal mismanagement and failure of the contract for handheld computers 

that led to an entire re-plan of the census very late in the game. 

The Census Bureau has taken steps to get the census back on 

track, but it is imperative that a strong management team is in 


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place so that it can remain on the right track. And I might say, 

your predecessor, the person who has just stepped down, Dr. 

Murdock, served for, I think, 1 year and 5 days, and I think he did 

yeoman’s labor in that 1 year in trying to get us back on track. I 

would just say here that I express my appreciation for his leadership and for his service for that 370 days. 

I feel the need, though, to reiterate that although Census Day 

may officially last 1 day, its impact is felt over the course of a full 

decade. An inaccurate census count can be a major setback for millions of Americans already struggling for economic survival. 

With that said, I do not have any doubt that Dr. Groves is up 

to the challenge and that he commands the respect both inside and 

outside the Census Bureau to fully restore confidence in the agency’s competence and integrity. 

Dr. Groves, you have a strong background in issues related to 

the census and statistics. You will bring a wealth of experience, as 

we were just reminded by Senator Levin, and service as Director 

of the Census. We appreciate your commitment to public service 

and your willingness to help the Census Bureau navigate through 

such challenging times. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Carper follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER 

Dr. Groves, your nomination, as you know, comes at a critical time for the Census 

Bureau. While the agency is not among the largest in the Federal Government, it 

nonetheless plays an integral role. 

Most people know that the Bureau is the government agency that counts the population every 10 years. Less known is that it regularly provides the government, 

business, and academia with an updated picture of who we are as individuals, communities, and a nation. 

As one of the Federal Government’s few constitutionally mandated functions, the 

decennial census determines how many seats each state gets in the House of Representatives and how hundreds of billions of dollars in Federal assistance are allocated to State and local governments. 

Finding and enumerating nearly 300 million individuals is, of course, an extremely daunting task. Since I took over as chairman of the subcommittee with 

oversight over the Census Bureau, I have been struck by the complexity of the undertaking and by the amount of staff and resources needed to get the job done, and 

done well. 

The census requires years of planning and preparation, followed by lightning execution in real time. In fact the 2000 census involved hiring nearly a half million 

temporary workers, opening over 500 local census offices nationwide, and following 

up with 42 million nonrespondent households. 

Given the sheer magnitude of such an undertaking, a shortcoming in one area can 

quickly have a domino effect on other operations. For example, a low mail response 

rate would increase the nonresponse follow-up workload, which in turn would increase the Bureau’s staffing needs and drive up costs. 

With each census, the challenge continues to grow in terms of cost and complexity 

as our population becomes larger, more diverse, and increasingly difficult to enumerate. The cost of the 2010 census has escalated to an estimated $14 billion, making it the most expensive census history by far. Put another way, it will cost the 

nation an estimated $100 to count each household in 2010, compared to $56 in 2000 

and $13 in 1970. 

The growing cost of the census at a time when the Federal Government is facing 

an unprecedented budget deficit highlights the importance of making sure that 

every dollar spent on the census improves the quality of the data collected. 

The 2010 census is approaching rapidly with Census Day now less than a year 

away. The Bureau has faced many operational and management challenges that 

have jeopardized its success. These challenges include under-funding by the last administration for outreach to minority communities, and the colossal mismanagement 

and failure of the contract for handheld computers that led to an entire re-plan of 

the census very late in the game. 


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The Census Bureau has taken steps to get the census back on track, but it is imperative that a strong management team is in place so that it can remain on the 

right track. I feel the need to reiterate that although Census Day may officially last 

one day, its impact is felt over a decade. An inaccurate census count can be a major 

setback for millions of communities already struggling for economic survival. 

With that said, I do not have any doubt that Dr. Groves is up to the challenge 

and that he commands the respect necessary both inside and outside the government to restore confidence in the agency’s competence and integrity. 

Dr. Groves, you have a strong background in statistics and issues related to the 

census, and you will bring a wealth of experience and service as Director of the Census. I appreciate your commitment to public service and your willingness to help 

the Bureau navigate through such challenging times. 

Senator CARPER. Now, if there were other Members here, I would 

recognize them for their opening statements at this point. But no 

Members have arrived yet. 

I understand, Dr. Groves, that you filed responses to a biographical and financial questionnaire. I actually read through most of it, 

and you have done a lot of research and writing. You have also answered pre-hearing questions submitted by the Committee. I read 

most of those, too. I do not know how long it took to answer. I 

know it took a long time to read. But I thought we asked a lot of 

good questions, and I thought your answers were actually quite 

good. 

In addition, your financial statements have been reviewed by the 

Office of Government Ethics, and without objection, the information will be made a part of the hearing record. The financial data, 

however, will remain on file for public inspection in our Committee’s offices. 

Committee rules require that all witnesses at nomination hearings give their testimony under oath, and from time to time when 

we have witnesses before us that are new to the game, they are 

not required to be testifying under oath. But I will just kid them 

and say, ‘‘Normally we do not swear in our witnesses, but you look 

pretty questionable, my friend, so we will ask you to take this 

oath.’’ [Laughter.] 

In your case, you do not look that questionable, but the rules of 

the Committee require us to administer this oath, and I am going 

to ask you to stand and raise your right hand, please. Do you 

swear that the testimony you are about to give to the Committee 

will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so 

help you, God? 

Mr. GROVES. I do. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you very much. You can be seated. With 

that said, Dr. Groves, please proceed with any opening statement 

that you have. I had a chance to meet some members of your family and others who have come with you, special guests, and feel free 

as you begin or end your statement to introduce them, too. As the 

father of two sons, one of whom came home from college last night, 

I am delighted one of your boys was able to join you as well. 

Mr. GROVES. Thank you, Senator. Indeed, I would like to begin 

by introducing some of my guests. Behind me is my wife, Cynthia, 

who is the president of a Washington-based consulting firm specializing in retail real estate and financial markets. I thank her deeply 

for her love and support throughout our 39-year marriage. 


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1The prepared statement of Mr. Groves appears in the Appendix on page 31. 

Next to her is my son, Andrew, who is completing his freshman 

year at Northwestern in the famous Integrated Science Program at 

the university. We are very proud of him. 

We are missing our son, Christopher, who is a senior at Purdue 

University and is on his way to becoming one of the world’s best 

flight instructors and commercial pilot. 

Next to Andrew—well, let me go behind first to other parts of my 

family. My sister, Carrie, and her husband, Gary—— 

Senator CARPER. As your names are called, would you just raise 

your hand, please? Thank you. 

Mr. GROVES. They constitute the Vermont delegation. 

Next to Carrie is my younger sister, Joan, and her son, Russell, 

the Pennsylvania delegation. 

These are my family members, but I actually have another family, my intellectual and research family, and Cathy Thibault, who 

is next to Andrew, is the Assistant Director at the Michigan Survey 

Research Center. And Carla Kish, who is there, is the daughter of 

Leslie Kish, one of my great mentors, and I know he is here today. 

I feel his presence. 

And out in the audience are scattered throughout various faculty 

members and Ph.D. students from the Joint Program in Survey 

Methodology located here at the University of Maryland. 

So this collectivity, my family and my research network, is really 

the joy of my existence, and I thank them all for being here. 

I would also like to thank you, Mr. Chairman. We had a wonderful meeting in your office. I am very thankful for how gracious you 

were with your time, and you and your staff, the staff of the entire 

Committee, made me feel very welcomed and respected. I appreciate that. I especially enjoyed meeting with this group of staffers 

behind you last Friday in an extended meeting, and it was very 

useful for me. 

Senator CARPER. How did they do? 

Mr. GROVES. They did very well. We had a good time, I thought. 

Senator CARPER. They said you did OK, too. 

Mr. GROVES. That is great. I feel very good about working with 

this Committee, and I hope we have a wonderful relationship, 

should I be confirmed. 

Let me begin my more formal remarks, and what I would like 

to do is give you a short subset of the material I presented to the 

Committee, and I hope the rest could be entered into the record. 

Senator CARPER. It will be entered, without objection. 

Mr. GROVES. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator CARPER. Please proceed. 

TESTIMONY OF ROBERT M. GROVES 1 TO BE DIRECTOR OF 

THE CENSUS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE 

Mr. GROVES. I want to thank President Obama for nominating 

me to this position. It is a singular honor to be asked to serve the 

public in this role. 

Mr. Chairman, I want to talk very briefly—I promise—about four 

topics: One is the necessary nonpartisan nature of the Federal statistical system; two is the inherent scientific nature of Government 


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statistics; three is the management of large-scale scientific organizations; and four is the intersection of legal and statistical perspectives on the decennial census. 

First, why does the country need a Federal statistical system 

independent of partisan politics? 

I firmly believe that a key attribute of a democracy is an informed citizenry. Throughout the world, government statistical 

agencies are one source of such information, and there are two key 

attributes of this information that are of key importance. One is 

credibility and the other is accuracy. If the information is believed 

to be slanted by partisan influence, the credibility of the statistics 

is destroyed. Once destroyed, the public trust cannot be easily or 

quickly restored. I am pursuing this post because I believe strongly 

that this country needs an objective, nonpartisan, professional Census Bureau. And if confirmed, I promise to give my full energy toward that end. 

Second, the inherent scientific nature of government statistics. 

The credibility of government statistics also depends on their accuracy. My research career has been devoted to the improvement of 

the quality and cost properties of sample surveys and censuses, 

and I have learned something in that career, and that is that good 

scientific measurement of a dynamic population requires continuous research and development. 

I want the Census Bureau to be a leader in such developments. 

Science and a scientific organization must be creative, transparent, 

self-critical, open to new ideas, and wise in grasping ultimate success from intermediate failures. The director of a Federal statistical 

agency must be free to speak on scientific matters unfettered by political influences. If confirmed, I intend to do so. 

Third, the management of large-scale scientific organizations. I 

know full well that right now, as I speak, the talented staff of the 

Census Bureau are working night and day to assure the best 2010 

census possible. They need a strong leader that supports them and 

appreciates their work. I will work toward that end with the executive team already assembled on the 2010 census, but I will be quick 

to seek advice and counsel from the brightest minds in the country. 

I promise to be transparent in these activities with respect to the 

many stakeholders of the census. 

Beyond the decennial, the Census Bureau has over 12,000 staff 

members engaged in providing key economic and social indicators, 

most important to the country at this time of economic difficulty. 

All of these efforts face ongoing scientific issues of measurement 

and estimation, and I look forward to those challenges. 

Fourth, and finally, the intersection of the legal and the statistical on the decennial census. The U.S. Constitution specifies a decennial census ‘‘in the manner that Congress shall by law direct.’’ 

Congress delegates to the Secretary of Commerce through Title 13 

the authority to conduct the census; the Census Bureau director 

performs duties specified by law or orders of the Secretary. Further, the Supreme Court has ruled on matters affecting the census, 

most notably the banning of the use of statistical adjustment for 

reapportionment use. Thus, all three branches of government play 

roles in the decennial census, but Congress is granted the explicit 

primary responsibility in the Constitution. 


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Mr. Chairman, I understand this. I fully agree with Secretary 

Locke’s testimony that statistical adjustment of the census is eliminated as an option for reapportionment and, further, that statistical adjustment will not be used for redistricting. But there is also 

a science side of the job of the Census Bureau. Congress, through 

this Committee and others, has consistently demanded innovation 

and increased accuracy and efficiency of the census. My job, as I 

see it, is to constantly search for improvements in the ways censuses and surveys are conducted. When the Census Bureau discovers such tools to improve, say, the decennial census, then I believe it is the obligation of the Census Bureau to describe these 

tools to the Secretary, to this Committee, to Congress more widely, 

and to the scientific community. Given the constitutional responsibility of Congress, transparency and public comment are required 

for any acceptable change in the decennial census. 

Mr. Chairman, these are my remarks. I especially look forward 

to working with this Committee throughout the decade to assure 

the strongest Census Bureau the country can produce. 

Senator CARPER. Dr. Groves, thank you very much for your testimony. 

We have been joined by my friend, Senator Daniel Akaka, beloved by his colleagues in the U.S. Senate. It is great to serve with 

him, and I am delighted that you could join us this morning. The 

Senate is in session today, but we have no votes today. As a result, 

many of our colleagues have returned to their home States. It is 

easy for me to go home. It only takes me 90 minutes on the train 

to get home to Delaware at night. I go back and forth almost every 

night. But it is a little longer train ride to Hawaii for Senator 

Akaka. [Laughter.] 

I am delighted he is here. Senator Akaka, if you have comments 

you would like to make, please feel free. Then we will start asking 

some questions. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR AKAKA 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I thank 

you for your leadership in many areas, and this one in particular. 

I am very impressed with the nominee that we are considering at 

this time. I want to congratulate you, Mr. Groves, on your nomination, and I want to also welcome your family as well—your wife, 

Cynthia, and your son, who is here, too. I understand Christopher 

is not here. He is working at school. And also your friends—I 

should say supporters—who are here to help you. And so welcome 

to all of you to this Committee. 

I want to tell you that I was very impressed with you at our 

meeting. It was a good meeting because we talked about many different aspects of the Census Bureau’s work. And I want you to 

know that I enjoyed that discussion. With the census right around 

the corner, the Census Bureau must have strong leadership. In 

your statement, you were so humble to say that you will continue 

to strive to do the best you can, and that is really great. I am glad 

you raised what we call ‘‘the Big E,’’ standing for efficiency, and 

striving to maximize all your resources, including personnel and 

stakeholders and others, to bring that about. 


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The census provides critical information, as you stated, that 

guides Congress’ public policy decisions on many topics. It is clear 

that you have a solid understanding of the challenges facing the 

Census Bureau, and that is why I am impressed with you. 

Given these challenges, I hope you will focus on strengthening 

management at the Census Bureau. In particular, a well-managed 

organization must invest in its workforce in order to meet its mission. And mentioning workforce, I hope you will bring that workforce up to its ultimate strength and get the proper people in there 

and fill all the vacancies. Also you have highlighted strengthening 

research, and that is another area that needs personnel as well. I 

hope you will make it a priority to provide the Census Bureau’s 

employees the necessary support as you have indicated. 

So, without question, you are well qualified to provide the leadership the Census Bureau needs, and I look forward to working with 

you and with the Committee and Chairman Carper as well. 

Thank you very much for giving me the time. 

Senator CARPER. Senator Akaka, thank you so much and thanks 

for your kind words. 

I would like to start off talking with you, Mr. Groves, about 

undercount and overcount. You have two sons. My wife and I have 

two sons. Your boys are 19 and 21. Our boys are 19 and 20. Our 

youngest boy just came home last night from school. He goes to 

school in Virginia, and our older son is a junior, goes to school up 

in the Boston area. I do not want to give your sons any ideas, but 

my big boy and his best friends from college are going to have a 

summer job this summer in Cupertino, California, working for 

Apple. And about a week from now, actually less than a week from 

now, my two sons and the best friend of my older son are going 

to literally drive my like-new 2001 Chrysler Town and Country 

minivan from Boston to California, to the Bay area, for the road 

trip probably of a lifetime. I see your son smiling. Andrew, I do not 

want to give you any ideas, but I think they are going to have quite 

an adventure. 

I mention them because when you think about the overcount that 

occurs, oftentimes the people we count twice are those who are in 

college, who go to school away, do not live at home, and they may 

live in another part of the State or another State altogether. Or 

they may, as is the case of our older son this summer, be living 

on the other side of the country and working there. And I think of 

my own life as an undergraduate at Ohio State. I was a Navy 

ROTC midshipman, and each summer we would head off and learn 

to fly airplanes and be on ships and submarines and aircraft carriers. So it was not a stay-at-home situation, but the mobility we 

have today with our young people is really remarkable. They travel 

around the State, around the country, literally around the world. 

And it is hard enough for us to keep track of them. I am sure it 

is a challenge for the Census Bureau to do that as well. 

But I am told we have an overcount that occurs a lot of times 

with young people in college who are very mobile, going to school, 

working and traveling throughout the world. And to try to be able 

to count them accurately is a challenge. 

I also understand that—and Delaware is a State where we have 

beautiful beaches, rivaling those of Hawaii, I am told, but we do 


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not have as many of them. But we have a lot of people who come 

to Delaware for tourism, and I am sure they come to Hawaii for 

tourism. We have a lot of folks who have summer homes, yearround homes, or second homes in places like Dewey Beach, Rehoboth Beach, Bethany Beach, and other places. 

There is a propensity to count people who have second homes or 

vacation homes maybe twice, at their primary residence and at 

their second residence as well. That is, I am told, how we end up 

with overcounts. 

We also end up with undercounts, and I read your responses to 

some of the questions that were raised about undercounts and why 

that occurs, why it is so difficult to get some segments of our society to respond to the request to be counted and provide even basic 

information about their families. 

I am going to ask you to take a couple of minutes, though, and 

just go back and revisit and share with us again your thoughts, 

and why is it so difficult to get some segments of our population 

to respond and to be counted and to provide information that is 

sought by the census? Why is that so difficult? 

Mr. GROVES. Thank you, Senator. It is one of the most fundamental and important questions that faces the Census Bureau and, 

indeed, statistical agencies around the world. 

We know some things, I think, from research that has gone on 

over the past decades. There appear to be influences on participation in censuses that are rather stable. The most difficult to count 

are routinely those folks whose connection to a single household is 

ambiguous. Even though in some sense censuses around the world 

ask a very simple question, ‘‘Who lives here?’’ The answer to the 

question is complicated for those who live in multiple homes at different parts of the week. This includes young men with multiple 

connections to households. It includes children of divorced parents 

who have child-sharing arrangements, where the children live in 

one household for a few days of the week and another household 

for other days. 

It includes, unfortunately, groups that are isolated from the larger society, that do not feel part of the society. It includes people 

whose primary language is not English; especially isolated language groups, when asked to participate, need to be asked in ways 

that they understand. And it includes—and this is an area of great 

concern for this country right now, I think—households that are 

doubled up, households where there are multiple families in the 

household, in a sense in a temporary way, but ambiguously temporary. 

So these are causes that appear to be prevalent throughout the 

world. It is an issue that every census-taking operation faces, and 

the solutions are not simple. But they are the challenge that we 

face. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Thank you. We have been joined by 

Senator Collins, who is the Ranking Republican on our full Committee. We are delighted that she is here. 

Let me just ask a follow-up question, if I can, and then we will 

turn it over to Senator Akaka for questions and then to Senator 

Collins for a statement, if she would like to make one, and questions as well. 


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Sort of following up on your response, explain to us some of the 

approaches that we use, some of the techniques that we use in the 

census to be able to cut through all those difficulties, all those challenges, and actually get, as best we can, an accurate count. What 

have we learned over the years and how will we see those lessons 

demonstrated in the census that will begin shortly? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, there are solutions to some of these. The solutions are the result of the research efforts partly at the Census Bureau and partly at other organizations. So we know very simple 

things work. Calling back on a house that did not return the form 

is an enormously successful act. It is expensive, but it is successful. 

I think we know from other efforts that altering the modes of 

data collection can be successful—that some people like to respond 

with a face-to-face enumerator right in their home, they feel safe 

about that, they understand that. Other people would prefer to respond with the privacy of a self-administered questionnaire or a 

Web-based instrument. So tailoring methods to sub-populations is 

key. 

The other thing that is key—and this has to do with the outreach 

that is going on now—is that groups cannot believe that their participation in the census can harm them. If they think that participating in the census can harm them in some way, then that is a 

big deterrent to their participation. So how do we counteract that? 

It is through the outreach and working with groups that are trusted spokesmen, leaders in the sub-groups of the population, that we 

can break that misconception about what a census is. 

Senator CARPER. I do not know if in the past, Presidents have 

ever been involved in calling on the American people to stand up 

and be counted and to be responsive to the census. When you talk 

about the segments of a population that are reluctant to respond, 

I think in some instances they may be moved to be more responsive, to participate more fully, with an appropriate appeal from our 

President or even from Mrs. Obama. Do we have any experience 

with that sort of thing, to your knowledge? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, I think that history has shown us that if censuses can mobilize leaders of all sorts, leaders at the local, the 

State, the regional level, the national level in all sectors of the society, it is key. Each of those leaders has influence over different 

groups. I think Presidents in the past have been effective spokesmen for encouraging participation among groups that they can 

touch through their remarks. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you. Normally, Dr. Groves, we ask three 

questions that are always the same three questions that are asked 

of our witnesses, those who are standing for confirmation, and I am 

going to ask those three questions and then call on Senator Akaka 

for his questions. 

Is there anything that you are aware of in your background that 

might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the office to 

which you have been nominated? 

Mr. GROVES. No. 

Senator CARPER. Do you know of anything, personal or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably 

discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you have been 

nominated? 


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Mr. GROVES. No. 

Senator CARPER. And do you agree without reservation to respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before any 

duly constituted committee of Congress if you are confirmed? 

Mr. GROVES. Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator CARPER. All right. Senator Akaka. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator CARPER. I thought he did a good job answering those 

three questions. What do you think? We will go to the next level. 

Senator AKAKA. Well, thank you, Mr. Groves. I did not mention 

your son who is here; his name is Andrew. I just want to welcome 

Andrew, too, with the family. 

As I mentioned to you in our chat, I am concerned about COLA. 

In Hawaii and Alaska and also in the territories, Federal employees receive a COLA, or a cost-of-living allowance, instead of locality 

pay. In most of Hawaii, the COLA rate is 25 percent of an employee’s basic pay. What I want to mention is that it has come to my 

attention that the regional office has decided to deny COLA for 

temporary employees hired in Hawaii for the 2010 census. During 

these difficult times, of course, denying COLA can have a significant impact on workers’ economic security. 

Will you commit to review the decision and to address any inequity in the treatment of temporary employees in Hawaii and 

other COLA areas versus other parts of the United States? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, thank you, Senator. At our meeting in your 

offices a few days ago, this was the first I learned about this. I understand your concern about this issue. I do not know much about 

it, frankly. I do promise you that I will find out about this, if confirmed, as quickly as I can and address the issue. 

Senator AKAKA. Well, thank you for that. 

Mr. Groves, the Federal Government is facing major human capital challenges. Approximately one-third of the Federal workforce 

will be eligible to retire within the next 5 years, and you estimate 

that 45 percent of current Census Bureau employees will be eligible to retire next year. You have particularly emphasized the Census Bureau’s need to recruit employees skilled in statistics and research methods, which is really your area. 

What steps will you take to ensure that the Census Bureau is 

able to recruit and train workers with the technical background 

needed to replace these retirees? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, Senator, I know we share this concern, and 

we had a talk about how important this is. I am terribly worried 

about this problem. It is not a problem only of the Census Bureau, 

but of the entire Federal statistical system. So actually solving it 

for the Census Bureau does not solve it for very long because other 

areas need help. 

It is a large problem because on my visits to college campuses— 

and I am sure you in your role have done similar things—if you 

visit the departments that are teaching quantitative sciences, the 

ratio of American citizens to foreign international students is such 

that you have little hope that this problem can be solved with the 

current pipeline of students who are currently U.S. citizens coming 

into the system. 


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Second, the number of programs in the country training people 

that have the requisite skills for the Census Bureau is way below 

the need. So it is not a simple problem. It is a problem that I think 

needs help with regard to hiring restrictions. I note with great interest that the Public Health Service has a class of employees 

where citizenship requirements are not in place. They are advanced 

scientific workers and doing wonderful work for the country. 

I also think that working with this Committee, its role is perfectly situated to be useful in this. I think there is a partnership 

that is required with universities and the Federal statistical system that does not exist. 

So it is a many-faceted problem. It is not a simple problem, or 

it would have been solved before. But I think it is a critical problem to work on so that 10 years from now, whoever is sitting here 

can talk about a much stronger Census Bureau with you. 

Senator AKAKA. Mr. Groves, I am glad you mentioned in particular the universities and colleges and even community colleges, 

and you mentioned developing pipelines into university programs 

in order to reach the talent pool with these skills. Developing pipelines into pools of talented candidates is very important. Would you 

elaborate on the steps that you would take to foster these relationships with the colleges and universities? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, I think it does, Senator, require outreach from 

the Federal statistical system, and I think it is an outreach at multiple levels. It has been my experience that programs that serve 

this kind of need are understood by presidents of universities; they 

are understood by some deans. They are often opposed by individual faculty members because they are interdisciplinary programs, and that is what the world needs, and we need to foster the 

creation of those programs. So I think it needs a pretty high level 

of communication. 

Senator AKAKA. Well, finally, because my time is almost up, I 

have been looking at the area of diversity within the Federal Government, and so let me quickly just ask you, how do you plan to 

work with the Commerce Department’s Chief Human Capital Officer to improve diversity in the Census Bureau? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, I will work with that role but with also a lot 

of other roles, and that is a big outreach problem, too, to get the 

pipeline, to get contacts with colleges that serve diverse student 

populations is key. 

The role of this in the Census Bureau is paramount. We study 

a diverse population. If we do not have a diverse staff, we do not 

understand that diverse population. So the will is here, I can assure you, Senator, and I will work in various ways. I hope to work 

with this Committee and find ideas and ways that you have that 

may help us. 

Senator AKAKA. Well, thank you so much for your responses, and 

let me finally say that Senator Voinovich is passionate about 

human capital, and he will work diligently with you in this area, 

and so will I. I wish you well in your new position. 

Mr. GROVES. Thank you. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator CARPER. I would just observe that Senator Voinovich is 

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children, but what he is really passionate about is human capital. 

He is on message, and if you spend any time with him, you know 

what I mean. 

We are fortunate that we have been joined by the senior Republican Member of this Committee. She and Senator Lieberman take 

turns chairing the Committee, and they have a great partnership. 

And we are fortunate for that. I am delighted that she is here, and 

thank you for joining us. You are welcome to make an opening 

statement if you wish and to begin your questions. Thank you. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will spare the 

Committee my opening statement, although it is eloquent and brilliant and insightful, but I will instead submit that for the record. 

[The prepared statement of Senator Collins follows:] 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS 

With the 2010 census fast approaching, the next Director of the U.S. Census Bureau will need to quickly take action to ensure an effective ‘‘actual enumeration’’ of 

all those residing in the United States. 

The decennial census is a complex and extensive operation, and the information 

collected has a major impact on the distribution of political power and over $300 

billion in federal resources. With so much at stake, it is essential that the results 

of the census be accurate, objective, credible, and free from even the appearance of 

political influence. 

The Census Bureau faces major operational and organizational challenges. Bureau officials acknowledged in 2008 that it was experiencing mission critical problems with its management and testing of key information technology systems. These 

problems resulted in a dramatic increase in the life-cycle cost of the 2010 census 

and also raised questions about the Bureau’s ability to effectively complete this responsibility. 

I find it particularly alarming that after all the technological gains our society has 

made and the millions of dollars invested by the Census Bureau on handheld computers for nonresponse follow-up operations that the Bureau has returned once 

again to the use of paper and pencil to gather this important data. It is clear that 

there are woefully inadequate procurement practices, and, at worst, gross mismanagement at the Census Bureau. We simply cannot afford to waste time and 

money on critical programs that do not produce results, particularly on constitutionally mandated tasks like the census. 

The next Director of the Census Bureau must take steps now to address both current and future census challenges. 

If the President’s fiscal year 2010 budget request is fully funded, the Census Bureau and Department of Commerce will be charged with managing $11 billion in 

taxpayer funds over the next 18 months. This is an enormous amount of funds for 

an agency with such a poor track record of fiscal mismanagement—a record that 

prompted my letter in March urging the Commerce Department to develop and implement a strategic plan to ensure the appropriate use of these tax dollars. To put 

these challenges in perspective, the 2010 census is considered to be the largest nonmilitary mobilization of resources and personnel in U.S. history and is estimated to 

cost over $14 billion at completion. 

The next Director must also look beyond 2010, preparing the Bureau for the next 

decade and the 2020 census. Planning must begin now for any major IT investments 

for the 2020 decennial. The Bureau must carefully consider how to use the Internet 

to promote effective initial responses. It should also examine incentives and other 

mechanisms for promoting survey response and limiting the percentage of survey 

recipients that fail to meet their lawful obligation to respond. 

Dr. Robert Groves is the President’s nominee to oversee this enormous project and 

lead the Census Bureau during this critical time. Given the Supreme Court’s prohibition on the use of sampling for apportionment, it is my hope that Dr. Groves will 

alleviate my concerns today by outlining his vision for the Bureau. If confirmed, he 

will be responsible for ensuring that the Bureau fulfills its mission in accordance 

with the U.S. Constitution, without undue political influence, and with careful management of the taxpayer dollars entrusted to it. 


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I do, however, have a series of questions for our nominee, and I 

want to start by saying, Dr. Groves, that I very much appreciated 

the discussion that we had in my office. The topics I am going to 

bring up today are redundant in the sense that we have discussed 

them in my office. But I do believe that they are sufficiently important that they need to be part of this hearing record. 

First, let me say that I was very pleased to see that you started 

your written statement off with what I think is the most important 

issue, and that is your statement that we need a Federal statistical 

system, a census that is independent of partisan politics. You made 

a very strong statement that this country needs an objective, nonpartisan professional Census Bureau. And as you know from our 

previous discussion, there has been a lot of concern about the 

White House’s possible interest in affecting or otherwise influencing inappropriately the census, and I appreciate the commitment that you have given. 

But let me follow up by asking you what specific steps will you 

take, what safeguards will you put in place, to ensure that the next 

census, the 2010 decennial census, is free from political influence 

from either side of the aisle? 

Mr. GROVES. Thank you, Senator, and thank you for your time 

that day when we met. That was very helpful. 

I think one answer to this is transparency. Sunshine, doing one’s 

work in an open environment, having an ongoing dialogue with all 

of the stakeholders is one way to insulate the Census Bureau from 

that political partisanship. 

The second thing is leadership. I truly believe that the role of the 

Director of the Census Bureau during these next few years must 

be such that there is absolute certainty that I would speak out. I 

would first work to prevent such interference quietly. But if I failed 

at that, I must, as a government statistician, in my belief, talk 

about this. And I believe transparency is a very powerful antidote 

to attempts for partisan influence. 

Senator COLLINS. Would you be prepared to resign if you were 

asked or pressured to do something, to take some action to satisfy 

a political concern? 

Mr. GROVES. More than that, Senator. If I resign, I promise you 

today that after I resign, I will be active in stopping the abuse from 

outside the system. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. I very much appreciate that. 

In that regard, in your responses to Senator Carper and in your 

responses to the pre-hearing questions, you indicated a willingness 

to respond to requests for information from this Committee. I 

would be remiss in my duties as the Ranking Member if I did not 

ask you whether or not you are willing to treat requests from the 

Chairman of the Committee and the Subcommittee of jurisdiction 

and the Ranking Members of the Committee and Subcommittee 

equally. 

Mr. GROVES. I would be happy to do so, Senator, and I hope to 

establish with you and your colleagues a working relationship in 

which the requests are pretty free flowing. 

Senator COLLINS. Fortunately, with this Committee and its bipartisan approach, it is extremely rare for it not to be a bipartisan 

request for information, so I actually do not anticipate this being 


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a problem, but one never knows. The make-up of the Committee 

could change in the future. 

I want to move to another issue that has been extremely controversial, and that is the issue of sampling. The Constitution 

clearly requires the government to conduct an actual enumeration 

of the population every 10 years, and the Supreme Court has 

ruled—I believe it was in 1999—that sampling cannot be used for 

apportionment of House seats. There is, however, some question 

over whether sampling could be used for redistricting and for the 

allocation of Federal funds. 

Obviously, the reason this is important is the results of the census significantly affect both the allocation of Federal resources and 

political power ultimately. 

Will you advocate for the statistical adjustment or use of sampling during the 2010 census? 

Mr. GROVES. No, Senator. 

Senator COLLINS. Will you advocate for statistical adjustment or 

the use of sampling during the 2020 census? Because, obviously, 

the practical reality is you probably could not use sampling for 

2010 at this late date, anyway, because that would require planning, I assume. 

Mr. GROVES. As I said in my questionnaire, I have no plans to 

do that for 2020. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. I want to turn to another issue, 

and, again, we discussed this one as well. As you know, the Census 

Bureau has encountered numerous difficulties with its information 

technology (IT) investments. Senator Carper and Senator Coburn 

have held many hearings on this issue, and it has really been appalling. After spending literally millions of dollars and much time, 

the Census Bureau scrapped its plans to use handheld computer 

technology for nonresponse follow-up due to significant performance problems and the loss of confidence in its contractor. So now, 

here we are going into the 2010 census, and it is going to be done 

the old, out-of-date way, using paper and pencil. This is extraordinary in this Information Age where all of us have handheld devices, BlackBerrys, and all sorts of computer applications, that the 

Census Bureau is going to go back to using pen and pad, essentially. This management has added an estimated $2 to $3 billion 

on top of the already expensive census cost that is more than $11 

billion. 

What steps will you take to both bring the census into the 21st 

Century—even the 20th century would be fine—and also to ensure 

that there is better management of IT contracts by the Census Bureau? 

Mr. GROVES. Thank you, Senator. This is an important issue, and 

I know you care and other Members care deeply about this issue. 

Looking forward, I think there are various things. Part of it, with 

regard to IT, is a research and development function. Part of it is 

a management function. Let me speak to those separately. 

On research and development, it seems clear in my part of the 

IT world in large-scale surveys that successful software and hardware development has certain ingredients to it. One is that the 

user is involved at the beginning and at the end and at the middle; 

that the old-fashioned way of building big IT systems where people 


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spend a year or so writing out specifications, and then the computer scientists go away and program those, and then come back 

with a device, that does not seem to be as efficient as constant involvement of a user orientation, so that little pieces of the system 

are built, and when the piece is not desirable, you throw it away 

and you build another little piece and gradually build the system. 

That appears to be successful over and over again. So one thing 

is how do you get the environment to get the users working with 

the computer professionals to make this happen, and that is, I 

would submit, setting of a culture that innovation through IT is 

part of the culture. 

The second thing is management. I do not know the details of the 

Field Data Collection Automation (FDCA) contract failure as well 

as you may, Senator, but looking forward, I do see the ingredients 

of success on the management side. One has to do with the leadership of oversight of contracts being there a lot and all the time, as 

it were, and cycling back and forth between the details of the system and the big picture. So leadership at the Census Bureau cannot walk away from these contracts and delegate them down to 

other levels. The leadership has to be involved throughout. I think 

that is the signal source of success. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you very much, Dr. Groves. I do want 

to say that I am very satisfied with your answers to the questions 

that I posed on political interference on the sampling issue and the 

management of the Census Bureau. So thank you for your willingness to serve, and thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator CARPER. Not at all. Thank you so much. We will make 

your statement, which you did not give verbally, a part of the 

record. 

Senator COLLINS. Thank you. 

Senator CARPER. I want to follow up on the line of questioning 

that Senator Collins was pursuing at the end of her comments. But 

on the issue of IT projects, it is not just the Census Bureau that 

struggles with these. It is all parts of the Federal Government, almost all, large and small. In State government, we had the same 

problem when I was governor of my State, and we faced these difficulties at all levels of government and, frankly, the truth be 

known, in the private sector, too. These are tough things to deal 

with and to get right. 

You mentioned in response to Senator Collins’ question—you 

talked about the management of the projects, in this case from the 

Federal side, from the Census Bureau side. And one of the things 

that we have learned in the course of the hearings that Senator 

Coburn and I have held is that sometimes the people who are in 

charge of managing these projects are not especially well qualified 

and prepared to do that. I would just lay that at your feet. We have 

heard it again as recently as this week. 

A second problem that we face is apparently at the beginning of 

many of these projects, the agency does not clearly say this is what 

our needs are, and what we call ‘‘need creep’’ comes along, and we 

continue to change the nature of what we are looking for a contractor to provide. 

And a third piece is reliance on what we call cost-plus contracts 

instead of fixed-price contracts. And I would suggest that we have 


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heard that not just once, but those three items keep coming back 

to us again and again and again. 

You have already talked a little bit about the management side, 

but let me just ask you to stick to this for a bit longer because a 

big part of the problem that we got into with the Census Bureau 

has been our inability to manage well a large technology contract. 

Mr. GROVES. Thank you, Senator. I have a couple of comments 

that I think are relevant to your points. Let us take this ‘‘scopecreep’’ one. 

I have seen several software development projects that have not 

managed that part of the task well, and what usually happens is 

for very benign reasons, late in the game, a set of users say, the 

specifications I gave you were not exactly what we wanted. We 

wanted some other thing. And without the management discipline 

to set those priorities, then things get out of control. 

The other thing I have noticed is on the programming and software development side, that without a constant interaction between users and producers of large software systems, the producers, the programmers, will get fascinated with a very tough 

technical problem, without getting user input about how important 

the solution to that problem is in the overall scheme of things. And 

so many times software development gets fixated on what is really 

a little part of the problem. And if users were at the table, they 

could say to those programmers, it is not that important, let us 

drop that; if it is that hard to solve, we will give that up. 

And so that constant dialogue is key for cost control and scope 

control, I think. 

Senator CARPER. I want to go back to a point I raised earlier on 

with respect to undercount and overcount, and just spend a little 

bit more time talking about efforts that can reduce the undercount, 

especially efforts that can reduce the need to go back and actually 

call on the residents to try to find out who lives there and obtain 

some basic information about the residents, the family. 

At our field hearing in Philadelphia on Monday, the mayor of 

Philadelphia was among our witnesses. The mayor of Wilmington, 

Delaware, was among our witnesses. And they spoke of the need 

for partnerships, of the need for a strong media campaign to raise 

awareness of the census, to raise the importance to the citizenry 

of why it was important to be counted and what the ramifications 

are for Philadelphia or Wilmington, Pennsylvania or Delaware, or 

other States, why it is important that people be counted. 

The mayor of Philadelphia indicated the cost, the loss to Philadelphia and Pennsylvania for every person not counted was actually very large, surprisingly large, almost hard to believe. But talk 

to us about what you and what the Census Bureau can do to nurture, to further the work of partnerships, and to also put together, 

if you will, a compelling campaign to raise awareness that will 

cause some of the hardest-to-count members of our society to want 

to be counted and to respond not just to the person who comes and 

knocks at their door for the second or third time to find them, but 

who will respond the first time out. What can we do? And how can 

we better ensure that this happens? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, the first thing to note is that the Census Bureau’s own evaluation in 2000 I think is pertinent to this discussion 


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because it is pretty clear that awareness itself is a big driver for 

participation. That is actually good news, if you think about it. 

How do you get awareness that is effective? And, again, I think in 

2000 there were over 100,000 partnerships that the Census Bureau 

formed at all levels. These were groups that were government 

based, nonprofit based, social groups, religious groups, and so on. 

The key ingredient seems clear both from the U.S. experience 

and experience in other diverse societies. The outreach is most effectively and cheaply done when the message is delivered by a messenger who is a trusted spokesman for the group, and in a diverse 

society, that is not one spokesman. That is many spokesmen. And 

it appears that local leaders play an important role in this. 

So the outreach that needs to be done effectively—and this is not 

just in the United States, I think; this is a worldwide phenomenon—has to be a grassroots one, almost. And that is a major 

campaign that has to be waged successfully. 

Senator CARPER. Give us some examples of places where you 

have seen it done well, both in creating the partnerships, putting 

together the message, through any different number of modes. My 

sons communicate a lot differently than I do. I still read the newspaper. They get their news over the Internet. For Mother’s Day, I 

gave my wife some gifts, including a Mother’s Day card that I 

picked up at a local store. My oldest son put together—over the 

Internet, with photos from his files—an unbelievable Mother’s Day 

card. It had photos of him and his brother and even of their father 

on the front of the card, with a real special personalized message 

on the inside that he did, I think, with Hallmark, and Hallmark 

actually mailed the card to my wife. She was pretty amazed with 

it. So was I. Maybe you are as familiar with it as your sons are. 

I do not know. Mine are well ahead of me. 

But given the way that we communicate, the messages that we 

use and really the medium that we use, how do we act in response 

to those changes? 

Mr. GROVES. No, I think your question has the implied answer, 

and the ingredients of success, I think, are identifying the subgroups that have different media that they choose to look at and 

have different languages that they communicate with. I do not 

mean basic languages, but different terms and ways of communicating. 

So the message has to be tailored, and in diverse countries 

around the world—Australia has a great example of dealing with 

the aborigines in communicating a separate message that is important to that group. 

I cannot wait, if confirmed, to learn about the media campaign 

that is being designed right now. I think the key to the success of 

that, as we have seen over and over again, is the customization of 

message and medium. 

Senator CARPER. I will just follow up on this and then yield to 

Senator Akaka. During my last year when I was governor of Delaware, States were involved in a big lawsuit against the tobacco industry. The States won, and as a result of the lawsuit, a large 

amount of money was provided to create a foundation, later called 

the American Legacy Foundation, whose job it was to be able to 


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message particularly to young people to discourage them from ever 

starting to use tobacco, and if they were, to stop. 

I was the founding vice chairman. Chris Gregoire, who was attorney general of the State of Washington, now governor of Washington, was the founding chair. And we decided that in order to be 

able to prepare the message to the young people across the country, 

it was probably best if then-Attorney General Gregoire and I not 

do the work. In fact, the people on our board, however gifted they 

were, said we probably were not up to it. And we looked around 

the country, and we hired a lot of very good agencies to help us 

to develop the message and to figure out how to convey the message. And they decided they were not up to it as well, but they 

found a lot of young people around the country that they recruited 

to help in both the message and the delivery of the message, people 

from all different walks of life. 

The American Legacy Foundation, I am told, was one of the most 

successful of such initiatives that we have done in terms of changing public perception of, in this case, the use of tobacco, especially 

with young people. 

Interestingly enough, I almost never saw the television commercials. I almost never heard the radio commercials. I did not see the 

stuff that was out on the Internet. But it was out there, and it was 

delivered in ways that young people, like my kids, would see, not 

necessarily their parents. It was hugely successful. I met with 

somebody in California recently who talked to me about the methamphetamines program—there is a program now to discourage the 

use of methamphetamines in Montana, and he said they based it 

on the American Legacy model, and it had enormous success in 

their prevention efforts in Montana with the use of methamphetamine and the perception by young people. 

How do we take those two experiences and use them in conjunction with the census? 

Mr. GROVES. I think finding alternative media to communicate 

and tailoring it to the individual audience are key. The content of 

the message has to be different for different groups. The goal of the 

message has to be the same, but how it is delivered and how it is 

framed, I think, needs to be tailored to the individual groups, and 

I am anxious to see whether that same sort of thinking applies in 

the current work at the Census Bureau. 

Senator CARPER. We opened our hearing in Philadelphia on Monday with a wonderful video prepared by the Census Bureau, and 

it was pictures of families and people from all walks of life, different ethnic backgrounds, and beautifully photographed and 

choreographed. A wonderful, compelling message that when we 

take the census, we really make a portrait of America. I loved it. 

That was wonderful. 

That will get a lot of people to want to participate, but not some 

of the people we most need to participate from the hardest to count 

group—and I would just ask us to keep that in mind. 

Senator Akaka. 

Senator AKAKA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Groves, I want to return to research because I know that is 

an important part of the Census Bureau that you have worked 

with and you would want to develop. We know that is essential for 


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the Census Bureau to have an active research program to improve 

survey design, address challenges that are a result of a rapidly 

changing society, and maintain the most efficient research methods 

and technologies. 

In the past, the Census Bureau has significantly decreased funding for research and development, and I think you realize that as 

well. In our brief discussion, I learned of your interest in creating 

a dedicated research arm within the Census Bureau. 

How do you plan to increase research and development at the 

Census Bureau, and what would you have the research program 

focus on? 

Mr. GROVES. Thank you, Senator. Maybe I should first note why 

you need research at the Census Bureau. My belief is that the current approaches of measuring businesses and individuals through 

survey methods and census methods will not continue to work. If 

the technology of those methods is completely stable, fixed in time, 

ossified, there will not be a successful set of statistics in the future. 

So innovation is needed. 

How do you innovate? Well, you innovate through trying alternative ideas, and the structured way of trying alternative ideas is 

something we call ‘‘research’’ in the world of science. So that is the 

chain that we have to begin. 

Now, how do you do this? One is to note that many opportunities 

for innovation do not necessarily demand increases in budget. They 

are efficiencies that can be introduced through innovation, and 

those are important to find out, to sniff out very quickly, because 

in these times with constrained budgets, the use of research might 

immediately be opposed by saying, well, that is going to increase 

our budgets, how will we do our normal work if we are also going 

to pay these researchers? 

So innovation can pay for itself. I believe that. I have seen it 

happen. We have created it at various times in my own experience. 

We also need partnerships. Not all research innovation will come 

from inside the Census Bureau. There is a vibrant sector outside 

of the Census Bureau inventing new measurement techniques right 

now, and there ought to be partnerships between the Census Bureau and this sector—it should be an open process. And so I am 

terribly interested in figuring out ways of building those partnerships within the current constraints of a Federal agency. 

Senator AKAKA. Yes, and I would agree with you that focusing 

on research would help with achieving the mission of the Census 

Bureau, which is getting all the information you need about people 

and where they are. I was interested in the word you used—partnerships—and how to get down to the users. You also mentioned 

by speaking to a group and its leader, you do not necessarily get 

down to receiving the kind of information you need from the grassroots, which are the users. 

In a sense, all of this is directed toward trying to get all of that 

information up into the Census Bureau. It is a huge challenge, and 

I believe that research is an area where we need to continually, dynamically try to find a better way to get that grassroots information. And you mentioned transparency, all the right things needed 

to bring this about, and I would be interested in knowing your 

ideas in particular on getting to the users, for example, people who 


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do not speak English well. There are many ethnic groups all over 

the place. You mentioned spiritual groups as well. It is going to be 

a huge challenge to reach all these groups and get good information. 

Do you have further comments about how you would try to reach 

the grassroots? 

Mr. GROVES. Thanks, Senator. This is a tough problem because 

of the nature of government statistics, and that is, they are freely 

given to the society, and many of them are then repackaged by the 

private sector and sold in different ways to individual clients. So 

one of the problems of any government statistical agency is identifying the users in order to reach out to them. It sounds odd, but 

it is true. 

The Census Bureau has a series of State data centers that have 

effectively outreached. In one manner, it would be nice to see those 

expanded—I think you need a long run view of this. Some of our 

users are children, and the use of statistics to aid the general 

quantitative literacy of our country is a wonderful opportunity, I 

think, for the entire Federal statistical system. Taking advantage 

of that will not produce immediate dividends, but it will produce 

a generation that understands things in ways that our generation 

does not. 

So these are big issues. I agree with you. They cannot be solved 

by the Census Bureau alone. Partnerships is the word, I think, 

that works on all of these things, and in getting statistics in the 

schools, I think this is an entire statistical system problem that we 

need to work on. 

Senator AKAKA. I look forward to working with you in this area. 

You spoke about transparency, management, and how to reach the 

grassroots, of course. Important to all of these goals is to have personnel in the Census Bureau who can extend its reach. Part of supporting that work is training. Training is one of the most important 

factors in promoting good performance and reaching your mission. 

A recent report by the Commerce Department’s Inspector General found that census field workers were not consistently following 

procedures that have been set up. As a matter of fact, the Inspector 

General reported that temporary census field workers were not following these procedures when completing address canvassing operations, where workers were sent to verify and correct census maps 

and addresses. Failing to do that, of course, would impact the reports that you receive. 

What steps will you take to ensure that the Census Bureau effectively trains its employees and that they are following appropriate 

census procedures? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, as you know, Senator, the address canvassing 

is going on as we speak, and this is a very important step in the 

2010 census. It produces the Master Address File that is the base 

of the mailing. So training here is very important. Training is also 

important in nonresponse follow-up. So it is a key lever that you 

have as a manager. 

I am not briefed on the current training of the address canvassing nor of nonresponse follow-up. I can tell you that I am personally interested in those things. I find them an interesting thing 

to worry about as a manager, so I will pay attention to those. 


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Senator AKAKA. Well, thank you for that, and the reason I ask 

the question is in our chat, I felt that this was an area that you 

really wanted to focus on. And so I am very impressed with your 

responses. 

Mr. Chairman, I thank you for being so generous with the time 

for questioning. And I want to wish you—and I know how important the family is—and the family well in supporting what you do 

for our country. 

Thank you very much. 

Senator CARPER. Senator Akaka, thank you very much. 

I want to follow up on Senator Akaka’s last question. I thought 

it was an excellent question and one that was brought to our attention on Monday at our field hearing in Philadelphia. 

We rely on Inspector General reports. In this Committee especially, we rely on the work of the Government Accountability Office 

and we rely on the work of the Office of Management and Budget 

to help ferret out waste and inefficient use of taxpayer money. And 

when we got wind of the IG’s report—this was the Inspector General, I think, for the Department of Commerce—it just almost 

jumped off the page at us. And I would just urge you to familiarize 

yourself with it and to go to school on it. It sent up real alarm signals, and it should. It did for us, and it certainly should for you. 

So I would urge you to bear down on that right away. 

I have just two more questions that I am going to ask. There will 

be a number of questions that are going to be submitted for the 

record, and we will just ask you to respond to those in a prompt 

way. But I just want to ask two more here today. 

One of those is, Dr. Groves, if confirmed by the Senate, which I 

think is likely, you will be taking command of the census within 

less than 7 months from the beginning of the census year and less 

than 11 months from Census Day. As we know well on this Committee, the census operations are already well underway, and they 

have been for some time. In fact, it is almost like they never 

stopped. It is sort of like campaigns. Campaigns these days, unfortunately, seem to never stop either. 

In the last two censuses, the Director was confirmed within 2 

years of Census Day in 2000 and within 4 months of Census Day 

in 1990. What extra challenges does this bring? And what, if anything, other than confirming you quickly, should this Committee be 

doing about it? 

Mr. GROVES. Well, thank you, Senator. As you might imagine, I 

have given this some thought. It is terribly late. It is not terribly 

unusual, as you have just noted, unfortunately. The design is fixed 

for the 2010 census. I think it must be fixed, so any major changes 

bring with them so much risk that the benefits would have to be 

enormous for them to be considered. 

I need to establish very quickly and have hoped to call for a risk 

assessment study that uses the talent inside the Census Bureau 

and some talent outside the Census Bureau to help identify pressure points. I need a set of priorities. What are the first things to 

which I need to attend to make the 2010 census as successful as 

possible? 

I think I also need to establish a leadership style, working jointly 

with the executive team that is running the census, that is one of 


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trust, one that allows us to look at alternative solutions for problems that arise. Problems will arise in the 2010 census. I guarantee 

you this. It is too large of an endeavor to go completely smoothly. 

And then at those moments when there is a problem, we need 

calm, fast, and flexible decisions, and they have to be transparent. 

So we need to work with you and other committees in Congress so 

that all of the stakeholders know the status, look at the options, 

understand why we choose one option. That has to be done quickly 

to be successfully done. So speed is important and flexibility is important, and a calmness is important, I think, in the crisis, and I 

hope to provide this. 

Senator CARPER. Several months ago, we had a panel that included a number of people who worked on censuses before in very 

senior positions. One of the questions I asked them at the end of 

the time that they spent with us that day—I said to each of them, 

we still have not gotten a name from the Administration. We have 

a Secretary of Commerce, Gary Locke, whom I knew as governor. 

We worked together as governors. He is a very good person. And 

I said to Gary Locke when he was nominated by the President— 

I happened to run into him the next day, and I said, ‘‘Two words, 

my friend. Two words you need to think about: Census Director.’’ 

And I kept running into him, ironically, and every time I would 

run into him, I would say, ‘‘Census Director.’’ When he got confirmed, the next day I called him and I said, ‘‘Census Director.’’ 

I asked this question of our panel that day, and I would ask it 

of you as well. The idea of having a Census Director who in some 

cases serves 1 year and 5 days and in some cases 3 years, 2 or 3 

years, 4 years, it is pretty uneven, and we end up with a situation, 

as we have here today, where our next Census Director is going to 

assume the reins of leadership literally as we begin the census 

itself. 

What are your thoughts about whether or not there should be a 

fixed term? The House of Representatives, I think, has passed legislation that would provide for a fixed term of 5 years for Census 

Director. They could be dismissed for cause, but anything short of 

that, this is a term that would extend beyond the normal 4 years 

that a President’s term extends, and it could extend from one Administration to the other. But what are your thoughts on whether 

or not the proposal that has come out of the House makes sense 

and on whether or not it makes sense for the Census Bureau Director to continue to report to the Secretary of Commerce? This has 

been the law for some time. 

Mr. GROVES. Well, let me note that when the 2010 census will 

be over, this country would have experienced five out of the last 

seven censuses led by a Director who was appointed in the year 9 

or in the year 0. There was one poor fellow appointed weeks before 

the forms were mailed out, I believe. 

Senator CARPER. Who was that, do you remember? 

Mr. GROVES. I cannot remember. I will get back to you on that, 

though. So there is a problem. Unless that system is working perfectly, I think it is a problem. 

A fixed term has various meanings, and I think one meaning 

would be important if one would pursue this. There are fixed terms 

that float, that are such that you may have 4 years after the date 


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you take office, and given the way the Federal Government appointment process works, those often float in time. I think to fix 

this one problem through a fixed term, it ought to be defined in 

terms of dates. So I know that different past Census Bureau Directors have slight debates about whether it should be a 7 and 2 combination, appointed in year 7 or year 2, or a 6 and 1. Those are 

minor matters. I think the notion that you have someone in place 

overlapping the decennial census is a desirable attribute. So it is 

meritorious of serious discussion, Senator. 

Senator CARPER. Thank you. We may want to pursue that and 

explore that with you further as time goes by. 

Dr. Groves, much has been made of the notion of sampling for 

adjustment. Senator Collins when she was here discussed with you, 

as I believe she did in her office in an earlier meeting, issues revolving around sampling. But as you and Secretary Locke have 

said, the Census Bureau does not have a plan or design and will 

not use dual system enumeration to address the 2010 census. However, since 1980, I am told that the Census Bureau has used statistical methods to generate detailed estimates of census undercounts 

and overcounts, including those of particular ethnic, racial, and 

other groups. 

The Government Accountability Office says the cost of these efforts in 2000 was about 3 percent of the lifecycle cost of a decennial 

census, which involved quality check interviews with some 314,000 

households, and comparing the results of those to the census itself. 

In fact, these report cards on the quality of the census in 1980, 

1990, and 2000 are what everyone refers to when they discuss the 

relative accuracy of each census. 

A similar coverage measurement effort is a part of the 2010 census design, and I would just like to ask you to explain for us, if 

you will, how vital this coverage estimate program is in order for 

the Congress and the Nation to evaluate the success of the 2010 

decennial census and whether in your view you believe the current 

design is robust enough and sufficiently funded to give us a highquality report card on which we can rely. 

Mr. GROVES. Let me address the first question about the importance of this. This is key in my belief, Senator. The obligation of 

a Federal statistical agency is to both produce the best estimates 

it can and then in a rare attribute also tell the public how bad 

those are and how good those are. We have to do both things. The 

effort that you talk about, the Census Coverage Measurement 

(CCM) program, is the second. We have to tell you and we have 

to tell the American public the good and bad parts of the 2010 census. That must be funded at a level that gives quality data on the 

quality aspects of the census. 

Your second question I do not have enough information to answer because I do not know the details of the linkage between the 

budget of the coverage measurement activities and actually what 

is going to go on on the ground. 

Senator CARPER. Well, as I said earlier, there are some questions 

that are going to be submitted for follow-up responses, and we 

would ask you in writing to respond further to that, if you could. 


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Without objection, the hearing record will remain open until 12 

noon tomorrow for the submission of additional statements and 

questions. 

I just want to say again—Senator Akaka has already mentioned 

this in his comments as well—we are delighted that you are before 

us today. And I may have said this earlier, but the panel that was 

here a couple months ago, we asked all kinds of questions of the 

people who are steeped in the census and statistics. I asked each 

of them to give me a name or two of somebody who could be Census Bureau Director, and several of them submitted your name. 

That is one of the things I always look for, when smart people who 

know the business say this guy or this gal would be really good. 

That is something I would take note of. 

Velvet Johnson, who has worked a lot on this hearing and, frankly, on census issues for us for the last year or so, has just handed 

me a note. It says, ‘‘Record will be open until the close of business 

today.’’ Not tomorrow at 12 noon. So my colleagues and staff are 

forewarned. 

In closing, thank you for preparing for this job. I think you have 

been preparing for it for a long time, and I think you are well prepared. 

As you spoke, I watched your wife and her lips barely moved 

when you spoke. I thought she was pretty good at that. [Laughter.] 

I have seen that happen in other cases, but she is unusually good 

at that. And I just want to say to you, Mrs. Groves, thank you for 

being here, and not just standing behind your man but actually 

being willing to share him with us, in this instance as well as others. 

To Andrew, and Christopher, who is not here, you have done a 

good job raising your Dad, and we are grateful for the time and effort you put into that. 

To others who are here, sisters or whoever, members of the extended family, thank you for joining us today and for your support 

of this nominee. 

Our intent is to be able to try to move this nomination through 

Committee next week. We are going to have a one-week recess for 

Memorial Day, and we would like to get this nomination out of 

Committee. 

Is it possible we could actually get this through the Senate? Well, 

maybe we can get this through the Senate. Sometimes it is hard 

to get 51 Senators to agree that if I offered a resolution that today 

is Friday, I am not sure I could get 51 votes for that. But hopefully 

we will be able to move this nomination because it is critical that 

you get confirmed and get started. 

Again, thank you for joining us and for your willingness to go to 

work for the people of this country. 

Mr. GROVES. I cannot wait to be able to work with all of you. 

Thank you. 

Senator CARPER. With that, this hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:09 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 


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A P P E N D I X 

PREPARED STATEMENT OF SENATOR LIEBERMAN 

The nomination of Robert M. Groves to be Director of the Census at the Department of Commerce comes at a critical time for the Census Bureau. With less than 

a year before the nation’s decennial census takes place, the Bureau is in need of 

technically skilled and forward-looking leadership to guide it through a thicket of 

problems that threaten to undermine the 2010 census and therefore the Bureau’s 

core functions. 

Mr. Groves appears to be an inspired choice for this position. First and foremost 

he is a scientist, with extensive expertise in statistics, social research, and survey 

methodology. He also has experience in the administration of large scale surveys. 

But second, he is deeply committed to modernizing the business of government surveys, and recruiting and training the next generation of statisticians at an agency 

where almost half the staff will be eligible for retirement within one year. 

Since the 1970s, Mr. Groves has been a professor in the Sociology Department at 

the University of Michigan. From 1990-1992, he was associate director at the Census Bureau, returning to Ann Arbor except for a four year appointment at the University of Maryland. He has advised a number of large sample surveys including 

for Neilson Media Research, and consulted on advanced survey design with almost 

all federal statistical agencies, including the Census Bureau, the Centers for Disease 

Control and Prevention, the Agriculture Department, and the National Science 

Foundation. 

He is an innovator of the cutting edge survey methodology that unites statistical, 

social science, and management sciences to improve the accuracy of measurement. 

He has studied alternative ways of measuring the U.S. population, how the alternatives affect survey conclusions, and how best to measure different subjects. A variety of professional publications and associations have published and awarded his 

work over the past 25 years. 

So, clearly, Mr. Groves has the scientific background and credentials to guide the 

Census Bureau during this critical time. But he is more than a good scientist. His 

experience with federal agencies and with managing large-scale surveys has provided him with a clear-eyed view of the administrative challenges facing any large 

organization and the need to plan for the future. 

The Bureau, unfortunately, faces no shortage of challenges. Most immediately, it 

is looking at both technological and sociological hurdles to conducting a credible 

2010 decennial census. The growing population of immigrant, non-English speaking 

citizens and the high mobility of the American population make a survey of every 

citizen extremely difficult. Add to this the Government Accountability Office findings over the decade that the Bureau does not have the capacity to generate reliable 

cost estimates for the decennial census and it is obvious why the agency continues 

to come to Congress seeking additional funds to perform its basic functions. 

For the last eight years, Mr. Groves has directed the University of Michigan Survey Research Center - the largest academic survey research organization in the 

world, with a staff of over 1,000 when large studies are conducted. He has articulated his interest in bringing in the next generation of technical leaders and collaborating with federal statistical agencies to avert a future crisis in technical talent. 

And he said in his interview with Committee staff that he believes ‘‘management 

leadership makes a difference.’’ These, I think, are qualifications much needed at 

the Census Bureau today. 

Mr. Groves is also committed to the modernization of the Bureau. The basic structure of the federal statistical system was developed in an earlier era, and the world 

of statistical design and data collection has far outstripped it. The federal government should be leading the effort to adopt new data collection tools and approaches, 


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rather than struggling to keep up, and I believe Mr. Groves has the passion and 

the skill to ensure that this is the case. 

Finally, let me say a word about the Census Bureau’s independence and the controversial issue of statistical sampling. The Census Bureau must be a scientific organization, operating independent of political influences. The credibility of federal 

statistical information depends upon that and is key to maintaining a fair and open 

democracy. Statistical sampling may be a valuable survey method, but the law says 

that the decennial census shall not use it—especially for congressional reapportionment. I think Mr. Groves understands the law. Plans for the decennial census have 

been underway for years, and Mr. Groves is on the record stating that, if confirmed, 

he has no intention of applying statistical sampling to the 2010 census. That said, 

the Director of the Census must be free to speak openly if he is to uphold and 

strengthen the scientific gravitas of the Bureau. I am confident Mr. Groves adheres 

to these principles. 

If confirmed as Census Bureau Director, Mr. Groves will have no shortage of problems to address, including making sure the 2010 census is on track to capture all 

American citizens, modernizing the agency, training and recruiting new staff, data 

security, and data privacy, to name just a few. I am pleased that the President has 

nominated someone with as distinguished a background in statistics and large-scale 

surveys as Mr. Groves and I wish him luck as his nomination proceeds. 


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98 


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99 


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