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S. Hrg. 111–1007 

FIVE YEARS LATER: LESSONS LEARNED, 

PROGRESS MADE, AND WORK REMAINING FROM 

HURRICANE KATRINA 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

AD HOC SUBCOMMITTEE ON DISASTER RECOVERY 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON 

HOMELAND SECURITY AND 

GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

FIELD HEARING IN CHALMETTE, LA 

AUGUST 26, 2010 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.fdsys.gov/ 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security 

and Governmental Affairs 

( 

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(II) 

COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS 

JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut, Chairman 

CARL LEVIN, Michigan 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

JON TESTER, Montana 

ROLAND W. BURRIS, Illinois 

EDWARD E. KAUFMAN, Delaware 

SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

SCOTT P. BROWN, Massachusetts 

JOHN MCCAIN, Arizona 

GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio 

JOHN ENSIGN, Nevada 

LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina 

MICHAEL L. ALEXANDER, Staff Director 

BRANDON L. MILHORN, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel 

TRINA DRIESSNACK TYRER, Chief Clerk 

JOYCE WARD Publications Clerk and GPO Detailee 

AD HOC SUBCOMMITTEE ON DISASTER RECOVERY 

MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana, Chairman 

CLAIRE MCCASKILL, Missouri 

ROLAND W. BURRIS, Illinois 

LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina 

SCOTT P. BROWN, Massachusetts 

BEN BILLINGS, Staff Director 

ANDY OLSON, Minority Staff Director 

KELSEY STROUD, Chief Clerk 

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(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

Opening statement: Page 

Senator Landrieu .............................................................................................. 9 

Prepared statements: 

Senator Landrieu .............................................................................................. 49 

WITNESSES 

THURSDAY, AUGUST 26, 2010 

Gregory C. Rigamer, Chief Executive Officer, GCR and Associates, Inc., New 

Orleans, LA ........................................................................................................... 3 

Amy Liu, Deputy Director and Senior Fellow, Metropolitan Policy Program, 

The Brookings Institution, Washington, DC ..................................................... 5 

Hon. Charlie Melancon, a Representative in Congress from the State of Louisiana ..................................................................................................................... 11 

Hon. Steve Scalise, a Representative in Congress from the State of Louisiana 13 

Hon. Joseph Cao, a Represenative in Congress from the State of Louisiana ..... 15 

Hon. Shaun Donovan, Secretary, U.S. Department of Housing and Urban 

Development ......................................................................................................... 17 

Paul Rainwater, Commissioner of Administration, State of Louisiana; and 

Former Executive Director, Louisiana Recovery Authority .............................. 21 

Doris Voitier, Superintendent, St. Bernard Parish Schools ................................. 24 

Mark Schexnayder, Agent, Louisiana State University Agriculture Center ...... 27 

Lauren Anderson, Chief Executive Officer, Neighborhood Housing Services 

of New Orleans ..................................................................................................... 28 

Hon. W. Craig Fugate, Administrator, Federal Emergency Management Agency, U.S. Department of Homeland Security ....................................................... 33 

Lieutenant General Robert Van Antwerp, Jr., Chief of Engineers, U.S. Army 

Corps of Engineers ............................................................................................... 35 

Mitchell J. Landrieu, Mayor City of New Orleans ................................................ 37 

Kevin Davis, President, St. Tammany Parish ....................................................... 39 

Jiff Hingle, Sheriff, Plaquemines Parish ............................................................... 40 

ALPHABETICAL LIST OF WITNESSES

Anderson, Lauren: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 28 

Prepared statement with attachment ............................................................. 95 

Cao, Hon. Joseph: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 15 

Davis, Kevin: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 39 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 127 

Donovan, Hon. Shaun: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 17 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 53 

Fugate, Hon. W. Craig: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 33 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 106 

Hingle, Jiff: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 40 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 131 

Landreiu, Mitchell J.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 37 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 125 

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IV 

Liu, Amy: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 5 

Melancon, Hon. Charlie: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 11 

Rainwater, Paul: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 21 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 75 

Rigamer, Gregory C.: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 3 

Scalise, Hon. Steve: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 13 

Schexnayder, Mark: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 27 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 92 

Van Antwerp, Lt. Gen. Robert Jr., 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 35 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 116 

Voitier, Doris: 

Testimony .......................................................................................................... 24 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 82 

APPENDIX 

Statement submitted by Sam Riley Medlock, J.D., CFM, Association of State 

Floodplain Managers 136 

Questions and responses submitted for the record from: 

Mr. Donovan ..................................................................................................... 145 

Ms. Voitier ......................................................................................................... 148 

Ms. Anderson .................................................................................................... 150 

Mr. Fugate ........................................................................................................ 151 

Mr. Van Antwerp .............................................................................................. 155 

Mr. Hingle ......................................................................................................... 158 

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FIVE YEARS LATER: LESSONS LEARNED, 

PROGRESS MADE, AND WORK REMAINING 

FROM HURRICANE KATRINA 

THURSDAY, AUGUST 26, 2010 

U.S. SENATE,

AD HOC SUBCOMMITTEE ON DISASTER RECOVERY,

OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS, 

Chalmette, LA. 

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:00 a.m., at 

Chalmette Elementary School, 75 East Chalmette Circle, 

Chalmette, Louisiana, Hon. Mary L. Landrieu, Chairman of the 

Subcommittee, presiding. 

Present: Senator Landrieu. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Good morning. If everyone would have their 

seats, I am Senator Mary Landrieu and welcome to our presentation and official Congressional hearing that will start in just a 

moment. 

But I would like to turn the microphone over to the Superintendent of St. Bernard Schools, Doris Voitier, who will welcome 

you officially, and I think her students have a welcome presentation. 

Ms. VOITIER. Well, good morning and welcome to Chalmette Elementary School. During the storm, this facility was under between 

8 to 10 feet of water and it was a middle school, Chalmette Middle 

School. We had to demolish the school and we have built this beautiful structure for our elementary school students, pre–K through 

five. We have 820 children on this facility, and it is state of the art. 

What you are sitting in right now is our Teacher Training Center. So adjacent to this property prior to the storm, we had a 

Teacher Training Center. So when we rebuilt, we decided to incorporate it into the school itself, and I think that it is—as you can 

see, it is a beautiful facility, the main meeting room, we have a 

training lab and some secondary meeting rooms, as we do in-service training for our teachers and our staff, as well as allow the students to use it during the day and community at other times. 

So as we rebuild the community, it is truly a partnership with 

the school system and parish government, all of our community 

partners as well as our Federal partners. So we thank the Federal 

Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), we thank members of 

our Congressional delegation. The Senator has just been phenomenal in fighting that cause for us and we applaud her tremendously for her efforts. [Applause.] 

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If it were not for Senator Landrieu, much of this would not have 

happened. She has just been a tigress in getting that legislation 

passed for us. And our Representative, Congressman Melancon, 

has also been phenomenal. I mean, he was here on day one, has 

done so much to help this community with much of the restart legislation. [Applause.] 

So we thank him, and we welcome our neighboring Congressman, Congressman Scalise, as well. 

So without further adieu, we would ask that you please stand, 

because our children from—Victoria and Cory—are going to lead us 

in the Pledge with some of their classmates behind them. 

[The Pledge of Allegiance was recited.] 

Thank you. That was wonderful. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Beautiful. Thank you, children. [Applause.] 

Thank you, and welcome, Congressman Cao. Please have a seat 

up here. 

Winston Churchill once said, if you are going through hell, keep 

going. [Laughter.] 

Five years ago, in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina and the 

Federal levee failures that followed, that is precisely what millions 

of Louisianans and residents of the Gulf Coast decided to do. 

I am very honored, actually, to be joined today by leading citizens of St. Bernard Parish, leaders from around the Southeast region of our State, and the heads of three Federal agencies that 

have had the responsibility to invest over $40 billion into the recovery efforts underway that you are seeing this morning and will 

hear about in just a few minutes. We have with us the Secretary 

of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), Shaun Donovan, Administrator Fugate of Federal Emergency Management Agency, 

and General Robert Van Antwerp from the Corps of Engineers. 

The last 5 years have revealed remarkable strength and resiliency among the people of the Gulf Coast, particularly here in Louisiana. Our faith in government at every level and in elected leadership and in ourselves has been tested along the way, but we continue to adapt, to persevere, to fight for the recovery and renewal 

of a great American city and region that is uniquely positioned. 

Our cultural heritage, our rich history, our strong sense of community are unmatched in the United States. 

Hurricanes Katrina and Rita and the resulting levee failures 

claimed the lives of 1,577 Louisianans, displaced 800,000 residents 

from their homes, forced 220,000 workers out of a job. The floodwaters, storm surge, and winds shuttered 875 schools, destroyed 

215,000 homes, 18,700 businesses, and 217 square miles of coastal 

wetlands was lost. To put that coastal wetlands figure clearly in 

mind, it would be like losing the entire cities of Shreveport, Lake 

Charles, Monroe, and Natchez. 

We will always be grateful to our first responders who saved so 

many lives, our firemen, our police officers, the Coast Guard, the 

National Guard, the Cajun armada of ordinary citizens and individuals who traversed the floodwaters in skiffs and airboats to ferry 

distressed citizens to safety. We are grateful to the hundreds of 

thousands of volunteers who have provided relief to help build our 

communities and we are thankful to the American people for their 

generosity, their prayers, and their investment in this region’s reH605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

3 

covery, represented by over $60 billion in Federal aid for rebuilding. 

As we approach the 5-year anniversary of the worst natural and 

manmade disaster in American history, we are compelled to pause 

and consider the road we have traveled, the condition we find ourselves in today, and a pathway forward. That is the purpose of today’s hearing, to take stock of the lessons that we have learned, 

maintain our momentum, and to make Louisiana safer, stronger, 

and more prosperous than ever before. And, I might add, in doing 

so, to share the lessons we have learned with other communities 

around the United States and world. Haiti comes to mind. Pakistan 

comes to mind. So when people around the world are suffering, 

they might look to what has happened here in South Louisiana to 

make changes for themselves. 

We will begin with two brief but very informal presentations on 

the status of recovery before proceeding with our formal hearing, 

which will help frame the discussion to gain a perspective on what 

we are going to hear at the formal hearing. 

Our first presenter is Greg Rigamer from GCR and Associates. 

He will discuss population and recovery. Mr. Rigamer is an acknowledged expert in urban planning and management and CEO 

of GCR and Associates. 

We will then turn to Amy Liu from the Brookings Institute Metropolitan Policy Program for an overview of the recent report released in conjunction with the Greater New Orleans Community 

Data Center. Ms. Liu is a Senior Fellow and Deputy Director with 

the Brookings Metropolitan Policy Program. We are grateful for 

what the Brookings Institute has done from the beginning to help 

us keep track, actually, of what the situation was and how we were 

progressing or not. 

I would like to again thank everyone in the audience for being 

here today. We will start with our presentations now and then the 

members of the Congressional delegation and I will sit at the panel 

and begin the more formal part of our hearing, and I will turn this 

over to you, Mr. Rigamer. Thank you. 

TESTIMONY OF GREGORY C. RIGAMER, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, GCR AND ASSOCIATES, INC., NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 

Mr. RIGAMER. Thank you, Senator Landrieu. As we cue up the 

presentation, I appreciate being invited to participate and feel honored and privileged to be here. 

As Senator Landrieu pointed out, obviously, we need not tell anyone here the colossal impact of Hurricane Katrina, but it was a 

devastating storm by all measures—lives lost, homes lost, assets 

lost. When you think of a complete cessation of governmental and 

business activities within a community, it is phenomenal to think 

that 5 years later, we are sitting here today in one of the hardesthit areas and having such a meeting to discuss the challenges and 

also the accomplishments that we have made. 

Today, 91 percent of the pre-K population in the New Orleans region is here. We have about 84 percent of the jobs and we have 

about 86 percent of the commercial businesses that were established pre-storm back today. So there has been over $10 billion inH605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

4 

vested in housing in the immediate impact area, and most—I 

shouldn’t say most importantly, but we have the benefit of $15 billion of hurricane protection for the community that will serve to 

protect us from future events. 

Also, real similar with 2010, following the anniversary of significant change in many aspects of the political landscape within the 

community, we win the Super Bowl. It is a real statement about 

that we are back. 

Senator LANDRIEU. And we can take credit for that. 

Mr. RIGAMER. Absolutely. Well, I think, clearly, you were a motivating factor in this. People wanted to prove that we could do this. 

All that said and done, we do have major challenges. We have 

lost 93,000 jobs in the region since June 30, 2005. These figures are 

from June 30, 2010. Our rents are high. And we have about 57,500 

units that we can identify that are out of service today that are directly related to the impact of Hurricane Katrina. Currently, we 

have building but diminished public services and we have yet to 

see significant provident investment within our community. 

When we look at the impact area, the five parishes, Jefferson, 

Orleans, Plaquemines, St. Bernard, St. Tammany, and the metropolitan area, while the metropolitan area is 91 percent back, St. 

Bernard is about 63 percent back and the City of New Orleans is 

about 80 percent back. Now, when you look at the extent of the 

flooding that we experienced, it is absolutely phenomenal that we 

are at this level today. We zoom in a little bit closer and look at 

the St. Bernard and Orleans Parish areas and we can see that the 

depth of flood was absolutely significant. 

One of the things that is very interesting is to look at the sequence of recovery of our communities. We monitor information at 

the address level aggregated to a block and then compare it to 

2005. So in 2005, the community was fully occupied and everything 

was up. By January 2006, everything in red is a neighborhood or 

a block that is less than 20 percent back, zero to 20 percent back. 

For the most part, what you see in red was zero. But within 6 

months, by July, we see signs of recovery, green being fully back 

and the shades between red and green coming up. January 2007, 

July 2007, January 2008, July 2008, January 2009, July, January 

2010, and where we are today. 

So when we look at this phenomenal change from where we were 

in January 2006 to where we are today, throughout St. Bernard 

and Orleans Parish, it is very impressive. So 5 years after Hurricane Katrina, though, we have 57,500 units that we can put our 

finger on that are not in service today that were in service in July 

2005. 

So what does that look like? That is what Orleans Parish looks 

like. Every red dot on there is a parcel that was in service in July 

2005 and not today. This is what St. Bernard looks like. I apologize, the images aren’t quite as crisp on this. But every red dot 

that you see on there is a home or a business that was occupied 

in 2005, not today. So when we look at this, it is absolutely significant. 

Now, how do we address this? Obviously, investment is part of 

it, but we need jobs. It is not just the short-term money to fix the 

issue, it is the money to sustain the community. Jobs is the key. 

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5 

We have lost nearly 94,000 jobs in the metropolitan area since 

Hurricane Katrina, and if we have any expectation of absorbing 

these properties that are out of service, it is going to be through 

economic growth. 

Today, our rents are very high. In the New Orleans area, the fair 

market rent for a two-bedroom unit is now higher than comparable 

cities like Houston and Atlanta. It peaked in 2009, but still in 2010 

we are higher than any of our other major metropolitan areas. 

When we look at the affordability index, how easy is it for somebody to live in New Orleans, what is the percent of rent that someone would expect to pay of their income, and the greater New Orleans area is here at the bottom and we are over 25—we are between 

25 and 30 percent of our income. And these figures are from HUD. 

We are more expensive, a more expensive place to live, than places 

like Miami. This is a real problem for our community. 

But on the good side, there is significant money being invested 

that will result in major new jobs for this area. The LSU–VA Hospital project, Federal City, the Bio Innovation Center, the Port of 

New Orleans expansion, the growing film industry, and the New 

Orleans Cancer Research Center will all provide the type of jobs 

that we need to attract people to our community. If we attract people, we can redevelop our neighborhoods and restore value. 

There has been a significant amount of money invested and we 

know that there is a lot more to be invested. Right off the top, we 

can identify $27 billion in project funds that will really have a significant impact on our community. 

So the bottom line is we are very positive about New Orleans. 

We think given where we are 5 years later, we all have a lot to 

be proud of. We are sitting in a great new facility that is state of 

the art in an area that was as hard hit as any. It is really remarkable that we have the benefit of having this hearing here today. 

Thank you for letting me be a part of it. 

TESTIMONY OF AMY LIU, DEPUTY DIRECTOR AND SENIOR 

FELLOW, METROPOLITAN POLICY PROGRAM, THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION, WASHINGTON, D.C. 

Ms. LIU. Great. Good morning. I want to thank Senator Landrieu 

and other Members of the Subcommittee for giving me an opportunity to present at this very important hearing. 

What I want to do with my 10 minutes is to cover two key points. 

First is that I want to assert the proposition that the goal of postdisaster recovery should, as much as possible, help a community be 

more resilient and also to help put that community on a path to 

long-term prosperity. Given those goals, then second, how has New 

Orleans performed on those fronts since Hurricane Katrina and 

what does that mean for Federal and State policies going forward. 

So let me talk about resilience. There is no doubt that the term 

‘‘resilience’’ is used in many different ways and applied to many 

different contexts, particularly in a natural disaster context, in an 

ecological context, and in a psychological context. What we want to 

focus on is regional resilience in the face of any shock, whether it 

is a hurricane, an economic crisis, or an oil spill. 

And the literature then says, given that definition, how do we 

know a region is resilient? There are two ways to look at it. First 

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6 

is the one that you can measure. This graph shows that how does 

a region literally perform after a shock, and this map looks at the 

job growth in New Orleans metropolitan area after the last 15 

years. New Orleans in general would be considered resilient if it 

bounces back to its prior trend line. 

But in this case, in many instances, bouncing back to the prior 

trend line may not be such a good thing if the prior trend line was 

stagnation or decline. This is why many of us have been talking 

about building back better than before. We need to transform the 

city and the metropolitan area in a way that we start to see indicators and outcomes that improve upon past performance, particularly on key areas of prosperity, the economy, opportunity, sustainability, and quality of place and quality of life. 

But the second way of looking at regional resilience is the extent 

to which a community has the capacities and the characteristics to 

literally adapt to, minimize, or absorb the impact of a shock, and 

the literature says there are five key characteristics a community 

has to really do that well, and the first two are economic. The other 

three are community. 

A strong, diverse regional economy—if a community has this, 

then if one of their major sectors gets hit hard, whether it is an 

auto sector or an oil and gas sector, it has other industries it can 

fall back on. 

Second, if a community has a large share of skilled and educated 

workers, it is more likely that the people are going to be able to 

adapt to what the changing demands of the industry or economy 

will be. 

Strong social capital—if a community has strong community ties, 

community relationships, engagement, and trust, they are more 

likely to work together to get things done. And community competence is about taking that social capital and really resulting in 

effective problem solving. 

And last, wealth. There is no doubt that resources matter—Federal, State, local, philanthropic, corporate, individual resources. If 

you have that to build a home, invest in the capacities of the people, the organizations, or invest in reform, you are obviously going 

to be more adaptive to shocks. 

So given that definition of resilience and prosperity, how has 

greater New Orleans performed along this front in the last 3 years? 

The work that Senator Landrieu talked about, which is the New 

Orleans Index at Five, co-produced with the Greater New Orleans 

Community Data Center, we found three findings that, I think, are 

really relevant for today’s hearing. 

First is that this region has not just sustained one shock, but 

three shocks in 5 years—Hurricane Katrina, the worst recession 

since the 1930s, and now the oil spill. But despite those three crises, this region is becoming more resilient, beginning to demonstrate new capacities to transform its future, and at the same 

time beginning to show some emerging signs of improving its prosperity better than its past. But this region is a work in progress 

and key challenges do remain, as Greg Rigamer described. Therefore, it is really important for Federal and State leaders to use the 

moment of the oil spill to build on the progress made since HurriH605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

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cane Katrina, but also to finish some unfinished business that will 

continue to transform this city and region going forward. 

So let me talk first about the good news. So first is that of the 

five factors that can predict resilience, New Orleans has actually 

demonstrated three of those post-Hurricane Katrina, and they are 

highlighted here, and I will just talk about them real briefly. 

There is no doubt that everyone talks about the power of citizen 

engagement, of citizen activism that has contributed to a lot of the 

rebuilding underway. But it goes further than that. The people and 

the groups are smarter. They are more informed. They are more 

strategic. They are more sophisticated, therefore being more important partners in both advocating for reform but also in the implementation of reform. There is more capacity in the region, for instance, in the rise of community development organizations, nonprofit developers and other community groups that have been really critical to neighborhood transformation. And obviously other coalitions have been enacting reforms. 

All those energies have actually led to some systemic changes, 

which says that this place, this New Orleans is really competent, 

and we are going to hear about some reforms later on in this hearing and we have produced essays that have really described the 

outcomes from a lot of these reforms. 

But behind each of these reforms are resources, and this is an 

important part of the recovery story. Behind the increased capacity, 

behind every single one of these reform areas are Federal dollars 

and philanthropic partners who have made all these outcomes possible. But let us take a look at the numbers, and I am going to skip 

this one, given the time. 

On the good news, I am going to talk a little bit about the economy and opportunity. There are some numbers that are showing 

that this region is rebounding better than before, so let us talk 

about the economy. In our report, we wanted to look at those sectors that are most important to the seven-parish, ten-parish, and 

New Orleans metropolitan area. We separated the economy from 

the export sectors and those from the local serving jobs. Export sectors matter because they are the critical drivers of the region’s 

economy. They are the ones that bring value and wealth from outside the region into the region. They tend to—for each export job, 

it creates two to three local serving jobs. And they do tend to pay 

more. In the case of New Orleans metropolitan area, it pays 

$20,000 more than the typical local serving job, like a grocery store 

or a dry cleaners and so forth. 

So how are the export sectors in the New Orleans region doing? 

I am going to not—ignore for a moment all the downward-sloping 

trend lines. We will come back to that. What I think is the positive 

story here is the upward-sloping red lines, which is in the last 20 

years, we are starting to see a steady emergence of knowledgebased service industries in this region in higher education, in legal 

services, insurance, and that is really important for an economy 

that has been historically dependent on oil and gas and tourism. 

The growth in heavy construction and engineering is not highlighted in red primarily because it has been trending downward for 

the last 20 years, but got a big bump after Hurricane Katrina. 

What we are still waiting to see is whether or not that is a result 

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8 

of purely from the rebuilding activities along the Gulf Coast or 

whether that trend can be sustained. 

But the other positive news is that average wages in the metropolitan area have increased, and this is really important in an 

economy that has historically been low-wage economy. So since 

1990, we are seeing an accelerated growth in average watches 

catching up finally to the national average. Some of this is the result of the emerging knowledge-based jobs in the economy, but also, 

honestly, because the loss of many low-wage tourism jobs after 

Hurricane Katrina. And no doubt, wages matter to the workers. 

Entrepreneurship—if you take a look at the blue line for New 

Orleans, entrepreneurship has really spiked in the metropolitan 

area since the storm, surpassing the national average. This is really important because it indicates the capacity of innovation in the 

metropolitan area. 

So those are some of the trend lines that show departures from 

the past, but there is no doubt that there are still challenges that 

remain, and let me focus on the economy for a moment. If you take 

a look at the four largest economic drivers in the New Orleans 

economy in 1980—tourism, oil and gas, shipping, ship building— 

each of these four sectors have been generally trending downward 

for the last 20 or 25 years. As a result, the New Orleans economy 

actually is now smaller than it was in 1980. 

I think what is interesting to point out is that tourism actually 

had grown for a while, but it took a huge hit after Hurricane 

Katrina and it has actually never recovered. The same four sectors 

are also the ones that are directly impacted by the oil spill. 

I think the big take-away from this graph is that this economy 

here is still dependent on a high number of sectors that are shrinking and obviously vulnerable to the recent crises and we need to 

rethink how we strengthen and diversify this economy. 

But if we want to modernize and diversify the regional economy, 

it is going to need skilled workers, and in this regard, we are starting to see that the share of college educated workers in the New 

Orleans area has actually plateaued since post-Hurricane Katrina, 

which is counter to the national trend and even counter to its previous history. 

Income disparities remain stark in this region between racial 

groups, and the only thing I would highlight here is in the yellowgreen bars, is that the typical African-American household in New 

Orleans earns about half of the typical—the average wage for a 

black household, $32,000 compared to $58,000 of a white household. 

And we have heard that poverty has dropped in the city. As you 

can see from the yellow line in New Orleans, this is primarily because of the changing demographics of the city after the storm. But 

what is interesting to note here is the flip that has occurred after 

Hurricane Katrina. There are now more poor people in the suburbs 

of New Orleans than in the city itself, 93,000 low-income people in 

the surrounding parishes versus 68,000 in the city. 

And even though we have seen a growth in wages in the area, 

it has not kept pace with the growth of housing costs, and so you 

look at the yellow line in the Orleans Parish alone, 58 percent, 

nearly 60 percent of renters in the community pay more than 35 

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9 

percent of their incomes on rent. That is enormously high and 

much higher than the national average of 41 percent. This is also 

a burden for homeowners. 

So those are some of the challenges, and let me just close with 

one final slide, is what do we do with all of this. One of the advisors to our project, a leading leader in the community debate, simply said to us, the one big take-away I want you to tell folks from 

your report is that despite all the crises and all the emergencies 

that this community has faced, we need to keep our eye on transformation and the goal of long-term prosperity, and I think that 

was very well said. 

So what do we do at the Federal and State level to really ensure 

that? No doubt we need to sustain and build on the positive 

progress made on reforms post-Hurricane Katrina. Those are early 

developments, and there is still a lot of unfinished business there, 

and some of those gains are actually starting to be unraveled because of the State budget cuts. 

I think the recession and the oil spill does present new opportunities to do more to move this region forward, and these are just 

some sample ideas. We do need to, as we think about the Mavis 

plan, what we think about the post-oil spill recovery plan, which 

is focused on the economy and the environment, we need to think 

about ways to strengthen the existing industries, particularly like 

the Port, if that is going to be part of, say, helping the President’s 

goal of doubling exports. We could continue to diversify the economy with a clear focus on those industries that are growing because that is an asset. We do need to strengthen skills in the area 

towards those growth sectors. And again, the more you diversify 

the economy, the more you strengthen skills, the more you increase 

the resilience of the region. Obviously, we want to make sure that 

minority-and women-owned firms participate in the clean-up and 

recovery so we ensure that we grow the black and minority middle 

class. 

And most importantly, we obviously want to focus on restoring 

the wetlands as part of building on the levee investments that we 

have made so far. And, of course, restoring the wetlands in a comprehensive way will not only generate jobs, but with that one sector focused on high-construction engineering, we may be able to actually convert wetland restoration and coastal protection and convert that into a true industry in the Gulf region. 

So let me just close by saying if we do all these things, I think 

we are at the verge of really witnessing probably one of the most 

catalytic urban transformations in recent history. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you. Let us give them a round of applause. [Applause.] 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR LANDRIEU 

Senator LANDRIEU. I would like to officially call the meeting of 

the Subcommittee on Disaster Recovery into focus and thank the 

members of the Louisiana Congressional delegation for joining me 

at this official hearing. 

By way of just very brief introduction, this Subcommittee did not 

exist when Hurricanes Katrina and Rita and the subsequent 

storms had hit Louisiana 5 years ago. The Senate reorganized their 

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10 

Committee structure and allowed this Subcommittee to be formed. 

I am very grateful to be able to serve as Chairman of this Subcommittee, and we have conducted any number of hearings over 

the course of the last 5 years related to smarter, better disaster response and recovery and I am pleased to be able to continue to 

chair this Subcommittee. 

The members that are joining me are not members of this Subcommittee, but as members of the Louisiana delegation, they have 

become experts on disaster recovery themselves and will be giving 

opening remarks just briefly. 

I want to thank Amy Liu and Greg Rigamer for a wonderful 

presentation. It is comforting as a leader to hear such strong and 

focused and objective data that will help all of us to make really 

hopefully good and smart decisions moving forward. That data is 

a blessing, because in the first 2 years after Hurricane Katrina, it 

was very hard to figure out what was up, what was down, who was 

here, who was there, and it really—I thank Brookings for following 

this so closely and for Greg Rigamer’s group that gives the leaders 

making these decisions the information that we need on your behalf to try to make the best situation moving forward. 

I am going to try to minimize what I say. I have a lengthy written opening statement, but I am going to summarize it to keep 

within 3 minutes and ask my colleagues to do the same. 

I just want to touch briefly on a few important challenges that 

lie ahead. We are pleased to have an extraordinary two panels of 

Federal and State and local officials with us today. 

First, the challenge for this region will always be—the most important challenge for us will always be flood control, levee protection, and coastal restoration. No challenge, not housing, not economy, will ever surpass that as number one. It is because we live 

in the ninth largest delta in the world. We have to recognize that 

we live on, around, and some of us actually in water. We have to 

learn how to manage it. We are learning all sorts of new strategies 

and you will hear some of that today. 

Housing and neighborhoods are so important. There are new 

ideas coming forward as the Road Home Program wraps up. You 

have seen the challenge for multi-family housing, senior housing, 

more affordable rental housing for workers as we struggle to bring 

our businesses and workers back. Land bank concepts are exciting. 

We heard about that today in St. Bernard. We are pleased to hear 

some exciting new opportunities for housing and neighborhood revitalization. 

FEMA reform, we have a better and smarter FEMA today and 

we are very grateful. Craig Fugate is here, our Administrator. We 

have seen example after example this week of FEMA saying yes as 

opposed to no. Tony Russell is in the audience. You will hear from 

them later. 

Building smarter schools, you are in one right now. This is a very 

smart redevelopment project. I cut a ribbon at Salmen High School 

in Slidell yesterday, and today we got an announcement that $1.8 

billion is coming to this region for rebuilding smarter schools that 

stabilize our community. So we are excited about the transformation of the new system of public education that is emerging, 

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11 

building on the strengths of what was here and transforming public education in the places that it needed to be. 

New models for health care delivery, you will hear some of that 

today. We didn’t have the greatest health care system in this region before, although there were places like St. Bernard and others 

that were very proud of the health care system. St. Bernard today 

does not have a hospital. If you tried to deliver a baby here in St. 

Bernard, it would take you a minimum of 30 minutes to get to a 

delivery room. And if it was traffic, it might take you an hour and 

a half. So needless to say, we have many challenges with hospitals 

in the region, particularly here in St. Bernard. But the good news 

is community clinics have been developed, over 92, and we are excited about a new model of delivery that is focused on preventive 

care and real doctor-patient relationships that are going to be very 

important. 

You heard about the effective nonprofits that are emerging. You 

will hear more about that today. It really is quite exciting to see 

neighborhood associations, when they call a meeting, 500 people 

show up and they keep showing up because they do care very much 

about what is being done and going on. We have lots of nonprofits 

all over the region that have received national awards. The St. Bernard Project is here in the house, Cable News Network (CNN) Heroes of the Year Award, and I could list 200 to 300, including those 

promoting new entrepreneurship. 

Criminal justice reform is an exciting thing that is happening in 

our community, and I will say in conclusion, I thank the Brookings 

Institute for their support of our delegation and our friends in 

Washington, and we have many allies and friends from both parties and officials that are helping us to really capture the opportunity of this oil spill to help lay on top of what we are going to 

see today as progress made. 

And specifically in closing, British Petroleum (BP) under the law, 

the polluter under the law, responsible party under the law, is 

going to pay to the Federal Government anywhere from $5 billion 

to $20 billion in penalties for violating the law. If they are found 

simply negligent, they will pay $5 billion. If they are found grossly 

negligent, they will pay approximately $20 billion, assuming five 

billion barrels was spilled, and that number is rough. Our delegation wants to claim a minimum of 80 percent of that penalty money 

to be spent on the Gulf Coast in communities that have been hard 

hit, from Florida to Texas, from the storms in 2005 to the current 

storms. You have seen the charts. Oil and gas down. Shipbuilding 

down. Tourism down. The Gulf Coast is a very vibrant region. We 

will not be able to recover, though, without additional resources, 

and that penalty money is going to be something that we are very 

focused on, and others. 

Let me turn in seniority to Charlie Melancon, the Congressman 

from this district. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. CHARLIE MELANCON, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF LOUISIANA 

Mr. MELANCON. Thank you, Senator Landrieu. I appreciate you 

giving me the opportunity to say a few words. I appreciate you convening this hearing today and I particularly appreciate the fact 

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that we are doing it here in the Third Congressional District and 

in the community of Chalmette, St. Bernard Parish. 

In the 5 years since Hurricanes Katrina and Rita devastated 

Louisiana, your leadership in helping our State and its people recover has been unmatched. We are at this point today because of 

your persistence and your refusal to accept no for an answer when 

it comes to delivering for Louisiana. 

So today’s hearing will give us the opportunity to hear from experts, elected officials, and agency heads who have been on the 

ground driving this recovery every day. We will hear about the exciting progress that has been made and the many difficulties that 

remain. We will take this information back to Congress, share with 

our colleagues, and push for solutions that ensure that we meet the 

challenges of rebuilding our State stronger than ever before. 

Five years later, many needs still remain, from education to 

health care to housing, law enforcement, and we will hear testimony today about those priorities. But for today, to fully recover, 

we need a serious Federal commitment to rebuilding our coastline 

and protecting our homes and communities here in South Louisiana. 

Our coastal wetlands serve as the first line of defense against 

hurricanes, yet we are still losing a football field of land every half 

hour, leaving our towns more exposed to the storms from the Gulf 

with each passing day. Progress is being made. The House of Representatives recently passed my amendment to invest over $1 billion in penalties from BP in coastal restoration projects along the 

coast, and Senator Landrieu is pushing for similar, however better 

and more money, funding in the Senate. So I encourage the Senate 

to cooperate with our senior Senator and I encourage the President 

and his Administration to support these efforts. 

While the levee system has been significantly strengthened in 

New Orleans, hurricane protection throughout the rest of South 

Louisiana is still well below that which is needed to protect our 

people from another Hurricane Katrina or another Hurricane Rita. 

Many of the communities that I represent have little or no hurricane protection, as critical projects are delayed year after year. 

Morgans [ph.] to the Gulf, for example, has been on the drawing 

boards for over 15 years. Inadequate funding coupled with bureaucratic red tape have repeatedly stalled this important hurricane 

protection project, leaving approximately 200 people in the 

Terrebonne and Lafourche Parish area in harm’s way. This should 

not be. 

We need a partner, not a parent, to complete these projects in 

Coastal Louisiana. Our State has the best coastal engineers and 

know-how in the country, but until the Federal Government decides to support our efforts, we will not make the progress we need. 

Louisiana needs a serious commitment from the Federal Government to protect all of our coastal communities from major hurricanes before it is too late. 

This weekend, we reflect on a solemn anniversary for the people 

of South Louisiana and the entire Gulf Coast and our entire Nation. But this is also a time to celebrate the progress we have 

made, both individually and as a community, in rebuilding what 

we have lost to these storms. 

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13 

So let us honor the spirit today and recommit to building a better 

future for Louisiana. And again, I thank you, Senator Landrieu, for 

holding this hearing. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you. Congressman Scalise. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. STEVE SCALISE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 

CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF LOUISIANA 

Mr. SCALISE. Thank you, Senator Landrieu, for having today’s 

hearing and for inviting our panelists to participate. I also want to 

thank our entire delegation for the work that has been done since 

Hurricane Katrina. Only through the teamwork and the shared 

love and commitment to our State have we been able to clear the 

hurdles necessary to accelerate our recovery. 

I also want to thank our witnesses who are here today for their 

continued work on behalf of Louisiana’s recovery. I have met with 

many of you on multiple occasions to discuss our recovery and I 

once again look forward to hearing your comments today and working with you to resolve the remaining issues from Hurricane 

Katrina. 

It is hard to believe that Sunday marks the fifth anniversary 

since Hurricane Katrina’s landfall. The images we saw and the 

challenges we faced on August 29, 2005 and the days and months 

and even years since are still fresh in everyone’s mind and will not 

be forgotten. Hurricane Katrina is a story of the strength and perseverance of the people of South Louisiana. I think it is very appropriate that we are here in St. Bernard Parish because I think the 

people of St. Bernard are the embodiment of that strength and resilience, and you can see today the progress that has been made, 

and as you are leaving and drive away, you can see the work that 

is still left to be done. So this parish is an encompassment of the 

entire region’s challenges that have both been achieved but still are 

faced. 

During these 5 years, we have experienced many successes in our 

recovery and made significant progress. But as we all know, there 

have been setbacks and there is still work left to be done. I think 

we can all agree that these past 5 years have been a struggle, but 

one that the people of our State, including many in this room, are 

continuing to work through every day and will continue to do so 

until our recovery is complete and until we have achieved our ultimate goal of rebuilding better, stronger, and smarter than before 

the storm. 

In order to do so, we must resolve the issues still lingering from 

Hurricane Katrina and make necessary improvements to the regulations and laws that govern disaster response and recovery. And 

we must make the investment necessary to protect our coast and 

to finally achieve Category Five hurricane protection. 

One issue that we are still dealing with 5 years later is the forgiveness of Special Community Disaster Loans (SCDL). While a 

number of these loans have recently been forgiven, an overwhelming majority of applicants did not even qualify and were recently rejected. In my district, only 5 of 17 applicants qualified for 

partial or complete forgiveness. I continue to call on FEMA and the 

Administration to resolve these disparities so that communities 

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that were equally devastated by Hurricane Katrina are not treated 

unfairly in the Community Disaster Loan (CDL) process. 

In addition, we have learned many lessons from and are still facing problems with the provisions of the Stafford Act and interpretations of FEMA regulations. I have introduced legislation, as has 

Senator Landrieu and other members of our delegation, to make reforms to the Stafford Act, including expediting the public assistance appeals process and improving cost sharing for debris removal 

and hazard mitigation. 

Debris removal was a significant issue in my district following 

Hurricane Katrina, especially in St. Tammany Parish. I know Parish President Kevin Davis is here and he will testify about the 

struggles his parish faced. They learned many lessons about debris 

removal and project worksheets, including how the use or lack of 

certain words or phrases in a project worksheet would drastically 

impact its final outcome. The fact that we are still working through 

some of these interpretations and assessments 5 years later is unacceptable. We must build upon the progress that has been made 

by FEMA and The Governor’s Office of Homeland Securities Emergency Preparedness (GOHSEP) to close out the remaining projects. 

And finally, we must ensure that the Corps of Engineers and the 

Administration commit to supporting Category Five hurricane protection for South Louisiana. This includes barrier protection at the 

mouth of Lake Pontchartrain, which will protect both the north 

and south shores of the lake, as well as major investments in restoring our vanishing coast. The BP oil spill has underscored the 

critical nature of Louisiana’s coast and we must redouble our efforts to protect and restore our valuable wetlands. I share the sentiments of Senator Landrieu that at least 80 percent of the disaster 

penalties be dedicated to coastal restoration efforts. 

As we come to the fifth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, we are 

at a critical juncture in our recovery. Over the last 5 years, we 

have cleaned up and cleared away the debris. We have rebuilt 

many communities and are still in the process of rebuilding others. 

We have learned from the challenges we faced and are taking vital 

steps to complete the remaining work and complete our recovery. 

Now we must continue to move forward and build upon the foundation that has been set over these 5 years. 

On this fifth anniversary, we stand on a strong foundation for future growth, improvement, and prosperity for families throughout 

South Louisiana. Moving forward, I am eager to continue working 

with my colleagues in Congress and with the resilient citizens of 

our region to shape our home into a more prosperous place where 

all can take part in preserving and strengthening our future. 

Thank you, and I yield back. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you so much, Congressman Scalise. 

Congressman Cao, who represents the district of New Orleans 

and parts of—— 

Mr. CAO. The West Bank. 

Senator LANDRIEU [continuing]. The West Bank, yes. 

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TESTIMONY OF HON. JOSEPH CAO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 

CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF LOUISIANA 

Mr. CAO. Thank you very much, Senator, and I would like to 

thank you personally for bringing us here together for this occasion. 

As I reflect on the fifth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, I am 

confronted, really, with mixed emotions, a sense of sadness because 

Hurricane Katrina cost nearly 2,000 lives, destroyed thousands of 

properties. I remember returning home to my own house and seeing that it was basically destroyed by 8 feet of water and went 

through the struggles of rebuilding, like thousands of us here. 

But also a sense of optimism in the sense that when we look at 

all of the projects that are springing up thanks to the partnerships 

that we have built with the Federal Government—thank you to the 

Secretary of HUD, Shaun Donovan and his hard work, with Paul 

Rainwater and his hard work with FEMA and their continued cooperation with us to help us to rebuild—the sense of optimism is 

there and I can feel it as I drive around the city, talking to the 

thousands of people that I have met in the past 2 years. 

When we look at our future, we look at the diversification of our 

economy. We are looking at building up our levees, the restoring 

of our coasts, and feel more secure about the future of this region. 

And when we talk to businesses and when we talk to citizens, 

we see that New Orleans has become a hotbed for young entrepreneurs and start-up businesses. If we look at our schools, it has 

undergone a much needed and overdue transformation, and every 

student, obviously, deserves a quality education. But we have to 

make sure that our progress must continue and we have to do everything that we can to provide our children with the best possible 

education. 

But we must also be cognizant of the many problems that we 

still have. In the City of New Orleans, obviously, we have to get 

crime under control. We have to be focused more on how to get 

criminals off the streets while addressing the root causes of crime 

and to end this violence. I believe that we need to have more focus 

on better educating our children, to provide youth programs and 

initiatives as well as other projects that will enable our children to 

stay off the street and to be more productive. 

As we go forward, we have to look at our continued rebuilding 

of our health care system in the New Orleans East region. We still 

do not have adequate health care to provide services to the thousands of people who live in Northeast, even though we have made 

great strides in the past month by purchasing the Methodist Hospital, but we still need about $100 million to restore that building, 

which in this day and age seems like an insurmountable hill that 

we have to climb. 

But given all of the problems that we continue to face, again, I 

cannot help but to feel great optimism, great enthusiasm for the future of New Orleans and the region, and just listening to Dr. Liu 

and her presentation, to have a clearer picture of what we need to 

do in order to continue our transformation and to continue pushing 

forward the recovery of our wonderful State. 

So with that, I would like to thank the Senator, the other members of the delegation who are here. I would like to personally 

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thank the Secretary of HUD, who has been wonderful to the City 

of New Orleans and to the region with his commitment, and also 

to the other members of the Presidential cabinet who have been 

committed and continue to commit all of their resources to help rebuild our great State. So thank you, and I look forward to hearing 

what he has to say. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you, Congressman Cao, so much, and 

I thank again my colleagues for joining me for this important hearing. 

I would like to introduce very quickly the panel, the first panel 

that is with us. Shaun Donovan is Secretary of Housing and Urban 

Development. He previously served as the Commissioner of New 

York City Department of Housing, Preservation, and Development. 

Before that, he was in the private sector and became an expert on 

financing issues relative to affordable housing. In my view, he is 

one of the most outstanding leaders at the Federal level today and 

we are grateful for him to be here and his absolutely extraordinary 

commitment to this region and his multiple visits, both to Orleans, 

Jefferson, St. Bernard, Plaquemines, and the region. 

Paul Rainwater is now Commissioner of Administration. He has 

held in the last 5 years almost every job in the State——[Laughter.] 

Senator LANDRIEU [continuing]. And we are grateful—— 

Mr. RAINWATER. Some in Washington, too. 

Senator LANDRIEU. And some in Washington, too. We are all so 

grateful for his leadership. He currently serves as Commissioner of 

Administration. He previously served as Chief of Staff to the Governor, Executive Director of the Louisiana Recovery Authority. He 

was Legislative Director, happily, in my office. He also served as 

Chief Administrative Officer for the City of Lake Charles. And 

most importantly, he is a Colonel in the Louisiana Army National 

Guard and was on duty the night that Hurricane Katrina came 

ashore. He has done two tours of Iraq, two tours overseas, and we 

are grateful, Paul, for your service to our State and our Nation. 

Doris Voitier became Superintendent of St. Bernard Public 

Schools in 2004 and has a 33-year career in the St. Bernard School 

System. She is the first Louisianan and first K through 12 educator 

to be awarded the John F. Kennedy Profile in Courage Award, 

which was an extraordinary honor to our entire State when she received that award on the stage in Washington in the aftermath of 

Hurricane Katrina. She has almost singlehandedly, although with 

some help from many in this room, but almost singlehandedly rebuilt a school system that was completely destroyed, and you are 

sitting in one of those buildings today. She holds a B.A. and Master’s degree in Education from the University of New Orleans and 

is truly one of our outstanding leaders. 

Mark Schexnayder is a Marine Biologist and Coastal Scientist. 

He has intimate knowledge of the needs of fishermen and the ecosystem in Louisiana. He graduated from Southeastern Louisiana 

University and he has been doing a tremendous amount of work on 

our coastal issues and our fishery issues. 

Lauren Anderson serves as the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of 

Neighborhood Housing Services in New Orleans since 1992. She 

has been working to increase home ownership, affordable housing, 

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1The prepared statement of Mr. Donovan appears in the appendix on page 53. 

enhance the city’s neighborhoods, and she previously served as 

Housing Coordinator for Armstrong Redevelopment in New Orleans and was one of the leaders—and is one of the leaders in the 

redevelopment of the Treme neighborhood that is now receiving national and international fame because of the show that is on television. 

So we thank all of you for being here. And Lauren represents, 

as I said, hundreds of extraordinary nonprofits that have reemerged, emerged, or grown to help us handle this challenge. 

Mr. Secretary, we will start with you. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. SHAUN DONOVAN,1 SECRETARY, U.S. 

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT 

Secretary DONOVAN. Good morning, Chairman Landrieu and 

Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me today to 

testify before you on the fifth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina as 

part of my sixth trip to the Gulf Coast since becoming HUD Secretary. 

From my first visit with Secretary Napolitano, where we announced millions of dollars in funding to stimulate long-term recovery, to volunteering with my wife and two boys as part of the St. 

Bernard Project last summer, it has been critical to see the 

progress we are making and the work that still lies ahead, particularly in the wake of the recent oil spill. So thank you for this opportunity, and more importantly, thank you for your leadership and 

remarkable friendship over this time. 

I also want to thank each and every member of the delegation 

that is here. I have to work personally with you, not only to see 

your enormous commitment to this region, but also to see the relentless focus you bring on ensuring that this recovery continues, 

and you have my pledge to continue to work side-by-side with you 

in that effort. 

Since taking office, the Obama Administration has worked hard 

to provide residents of the Gulf Coast with the tools that they need 

to recover and to rebuild their lives and communities. Today, I 

would like to discuss the scope of HUD’s efforts to make that possible, where we were when President Obama took office, the 

progress we have made since that time, and the steps we still need 

to take to ensure that the resources we provided are used in the 

most effective way possible, and I have provided more complete testimony for the record. 

When President Obama took office 31⁄2 years ago—when President Obama took office a year-and-a-half ago, nearly 40,000 families who had been displaced by the storms were still relying on government assistance to find housing. And within days of his inauguration, I discovered that more than 30,000 of those families were 

on the verge of losing that assistance and potentially their homes 

when the Disaster Housing Assistance Program (DHAP) would 

come to an end. Working with nearly 350 Public Housing Agencies 

around the country, we helped all of these families find permanent 

housing by extending DHAP for an additional 6 months, providing 

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comprehensive case management, and 12,300 Housing Choice 

Vouchers to the most vulnerable families. 

We also worked closely with our partners across the Administration. From the 7,600 families that remained in temporary housing 

units throughout the Gulf Coast when we took office, FEMA and 

HUD worked together to move as many of these families as possible into permanent housing. All told, because of these efforts, 

Madam Chairman, I am proud to say to you today that of the 

40,000 families who relied on temporary government housing assistance when we took office, we have helped 98 percent of them 

move into permanent housing. But we will not rest until we have 

completed the job for the remaining 883 families. 

One of the reasons we have made progress is that we realized 

early on that far too many Gulf Coast residents, through no fault 

of their own, had become stuck in the recovery process due to numerous challenges and barriers that left them unable to complete 

the rebuilding of their homes or their lives. That is why since taking office HUD has provided the additional clarity and guidance to 

States that gives them the flexibility to address these so-called 

unmet needs, including modifying a rigid duplication of benefits 

rule which failed to account for the true cost of displacement. 

My experience with the St. Bernard Project that I mentioned earlier provided a powerful example of how we could get resources to 

people on the ground more quickly and effectively. Spending a day 

with my family rebuilding the homes of an elderly woman living 

alone and a retired couple struggling with advanced Alzheimer’s 

disease, I saw for myself who has borne the greatest need of the 

road home, our most vulnerable population. 

Perhaps most important of all, the work of nonprofits like the St. 

Bernard Project affirmed my belief that these extraordinary organizations could do even more with the support of a true Federal partner. Indeed, we have already seen how nonprofit organizations 

partnering with nonprofit rebuilding programs run by the State of 

Louisiana and Mississippi have housed hundreds of Hurricane 

Katrina and Hurricane Rita victims. That is why we have provided 

$23 million in funding to these groups under the Nonprofit Rebuilding Program of Louisiana to encourage their assistance, as 

well as $28 million under Mississippi’s Neighborhood Rental Restoration Project. 

With hundreds of thousands of homes damaged and destroyed, 

Louisiana’s Road Home Program is among the largest housing efforts ever undertaken by a State in our Nation’s history, assisting 

homeowners across more than two dozen parishes throughout all of 

Southern Louisiana and nearly 46,000 in Orleans Parish alone. A 

year ago, more than 4,000 eligible applicants had yet to receive 

their program award. By working with the State, we have reduced 

that number to 170, and we have resolved more than 1,700 appeals 

over the last year with only 103 remaining. Last year, we removed 

the $50,000 cap on grants to help low-and moderate-income homeowners rebuild their homes. This change has put nearly $400 million in rebuilding resources in the hands of homeowners with modest incomes. 

None of that is to suggest the job is over, Madam Chairman. In 

Louisiana, while the Road Home Program is close to its end, we 

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recognize the decisions made by the previous Administration have 

left some families with ongoing difficulties and the Obama Administration remains committed to getting those families the help they 

need. As part of this commitment, HUD’s Office of Fair Housing 

and Equal Opportunity is investigating several complaints concerning practices that may be impeding the availability of Federally-assisted housing to families most in need, as well as new rental permit practices that allegedly restrict rental housing for African-Americans attempting to return to their homes after Hurricane 

Katrina. No one should have to wonder if the color of their skin 

somehow influenced whether they could receive a mortgage, access 

to economic opportunity, or disaster recovery assistance. 

But this isn’t just about helping families who are living in temporary housing or at risk of homelessness, Madam Chairman. It is 

also about rebuilding the region’s housing stock for families who 

have yet to return. It is also about helping a community that at 

one point had lost half its population and is now back over 90 percent, not only rebuild what was there before the storm, but rebuild 

stronger and smarter. 

One of the most important challenges we face today is vacant 

buildings and blight across the metropolitan area, where we estimate there are 59,000 blighted units today. We have made progress 

since we came into office. This number has been reduced by 14 percent. But to truly address the problem of blight, we must go beyond 

recovery to revitalization that also solves the problems that existed 

before the storm, when the metropolitan area had one of the highest per capita vacancy rates in the country, with almost 30,000 vacant properties. 

In that respect, the Neighborhood Stabilization Program (NSP) 

can be a powerful tool, helping communities purchase and redevelop vacant and abandoned homes. With Mayor Landrieu’s leadership, guidance from HUD, a professional procurement process, and 

technical assistance provided by enterprise community partners, I 

am pleased to report that HUD expects New Orleans to obligate 

100 percent of its Neighborhood Stabilization Grant in the next few 

weeks, targeting these funds to the families and neighborhoods 

where they are needed most. 

As part of the competitively awarded second round of NSP funding, the New Orleans Redevelopment Authority received a $29 million grant from HUD that will help the Mayor’s plan to combat 

blight by demolishing hundreds of blighted properties, building and 

rehabbing hundreds of affordable rental homes in their place, and 

providing homebuyer counseling and other services essential to the 

neighborhood success. 

I am also pleased to say that we are making real progress building affordable rental housing, which prior to Hurricane Katrina 

comprised half of all the housing stock here in New Orleans. In the 

wake of the storm, public housing developments known as the Big 

Four were severely damaged, disrupting the lives of some of the 

city’s most vulnerable populations. HUD is committed to rebuilding 

the Big Four and rebuilding the New Orleans Housing Authority 

under the leadership of David Gilmore. 

When we first came into office, the Housing Authority of New 

Orleans (HANO) was in disarray. Today, it has leased up thouH605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

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sands more vouchers than were in use before the storm. Combined 

with our other efforts to spur privately-owned affordable housing 

developments, we have created 8,400 affordable homes in New Orleans since taking office, and in total, this means there is more 

Federally-assisted housing in New Orleans today than there was 

before the storm. 

But even still, we are committed to doing more. When we first 

came into office, not a single family had returned to the Big Four. 

Today, all four complexes are under construction and hundreds of 

families have returned to their homes there. Programs that were 

simply stuck under the previous Administration, such as the State 

of Louisiana’s $684 million Small Rental Property Program, are 

now producing thousands of units with expenditures of $7.3 million 

per month, more than five times before I became Secretary. 

But as you also know, this work depends on a mixture of Federal, State, and private sector funds, which will require an extension of the placed-in-service date on Gulf Opportunity Zone LowIncome Housing Tax Credits (LIHTCs). Without an extension of the 

GO–Zone Tax Credits, more than 6,000 Gulf Coast affordable housing units are unlikely to be completed. This is a top priority for this 

Administration, which is why I am so thankful for the leadership 

provided by the members of the Louisiana delegation that are here 

today to ensure that the extension will be passed by the House and 

close to passage in the Senate. And I am committed to working 

with all of you to send this critical legislation to President Obama’s 

desk. 

Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Disaster Recovery 

Funds have also been critical to New Orleans to help forge partnerships that will create jobs out of this affordable housing development. One example is Louisiana’s partnership with a consortium of 

local nonprofits created to offer vital assistance in the Small Rental 

Property Program I mentioned earlier, which has produced over 

3,000 affordable homes in the State. I am happy to say that the 

City of New Orleans has committed to participating in this partnership, as well, by creating a bonding pool to ensure small and 

minority businesses participate in redevelopment construction 

projects. The Housing Authority of New Orleans has pledged to join 

with the city to provide similar opportunities in HANO developments. 

Of course, comprehensive community development means more 

than just housing or economic development. It also mean quality 

health care for community residents. Toward that end today, 

Madam Chairman, I am pleased to announce that HUD has approved the use of CDBG funds to help keep 87 community health 

clinics open, reducing the strain on emergency rooms and improving access to health care for the families who need it most. [Applause.] 

Last, let me say a word about the lessons we have learned. Perhaps the most important is that when it comes to disaster recovery, 

it is not just how much money government spends, but how we can 

spend it better and more effectively. Too often in the past, the Federal Government has paid to rebuild what was there before the 

storm rather than to build back stronger and smarter, helping 

avoid disaster when the next storm strikes. 

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1The prepared statement of Mr. Rainwater appears in the appendix on page 75. 

According to an independent study by the National Institute of 

Building Sciences, every dollar spent on disaster mitigation saves 

taxpayers $4 in disaster recovery expenses. That is why HUD created the Disaster Relief Enhancement Fund, a $300 million pool to 

incentivize States recovering from disasters to use their funds in a 

way that also mitigate against future disasters and prepare them 

for future recoveries. 

That is why I am pleased to announce today that HUD is award- ing Louisiana over $32 million and Texas nearly $68 million from 

the Enhancement Fund, to complement, enhance, and scale-up 

their innovative efforts. We are also awarding funds to Mississippi 

and Florida to help them as they work to recover from the Gulf oil 

spill. 

And so, Madam Chairman, as you can see, while we have a ways 

to go, we are making progress for a Gulf Coast region still struggling to regain its footing. I know it isn’t easy, and I want every 

resident of this proud region to know that this Administration will 

never forget you. Indeed, at HUD, we have made Gulf Coast recovery one of the very measures of our agency’s success for the next 

5 years and we expect to be held accountable for producing results. 

But as long as we continue to cut through red tape, listen to the 

voices of people on the ground, and work together to get help to 

families and neighborhoods that need it most, across agency silos, 

at the Federal, State, and local levels, I have no doubt we will continue to produce results, results this region needs to not only rebuild, but rebuild stronger, better, and faster. 

That is what moving from recovery to revitalization is all about 

and it remains our goal today. Thank you. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you so much. I think that deserves a 

round of applause. [Applause.] 

Thank you for that passionate, informed testimony. 

The rest of the panel, I am going to ask if you could limit your 

remarks to 5 minutes, and we have a second panel starting, but 

the Secretary was given great latitude and we are thrilled for the 

funding that he has provided. And he could have as much time as 

he wants if he keeps giving out money like that. [Laughter.] 

Yes, we will invite him back next week. Mr. Rainwater. 

TESTIMONY OF PAUL RAINWATER,1 COMMISSIONER OF ADMINISTRATION, STATE OF LOUISIANA, AND FORMER EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LOUISIANA RECOVERY AUTHORITY 

Mr. RAINWATER. Thank you, Senator Landrieu. Again, it was a 

great honor to serve with you in Washington, D.C., as your Legislative Director, and we appreciate very much your tireless efforts, 

and also to the Congressional delegation who I have all worked 

with very closely over these last 5 years. 

I have had the honor of working through this disaster from day 

one as part of the original evacuation team that managed the I– 

10 causeway site and have been humbled by it, to be very frank 

with you. And it is humbling to be with the folks here in St. Bernard, who I remember going back after managing the I–10 causeway site, going back to Lake Charles, and the first evacuee that the 

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City of Lake Charles actually received was an older gentleman 

from St. Bernard Parish who got off a bus and just said, ‘‘Thank 

you for having us.’’ It is those memories that are ingrained in my 

mind for the rest of my life. 

When I took the job with you and then came down to work with 

Governor Jindal to run the Louisiana Recovery Authority (LRA), I 

took it with that in mind, that whatever we did, we needed to 

make this right from a State perspective. Governor Jindal consolidated our operations here and said, ‘‘Get to work.’’ Let us get rid 

of the silos, get rid of the turf, work with our Federal partners, and 

let us get this moving. And I will say that we struggled for the first 

year. 

Then when Shaun Donovan took over, Secretary Donovan took 

over HUD, and FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate came in and 

took over the Federal Emergency Management Agency, we began 

to make progress, and I will say thank you to Secretary Donovan 

for his partnership. He got it right off the bat. When we began to 

look at what was the wolf closest at the door to us, it was the Disaster Housing Assistance Program. I went and briefed him and he 

got it within 5 minutes and said, ‘‘I am going to make this right,’’ 

and you did, Secretary, and I thank you for that. 

Secretary DONOVAN. Thank you. 

Mr. RAINWATER. We have continued to make great progress on the recovery. Of the $13.4 billion that we had in Community Development Block Grant money in the Road Home Program, we have 

put out $8.6 billion. We know that we have 3,000 folks left to serve. 

We have hired Legal Services to go in and work with those folks. 

Many of them have title issues that we all know about and we 

have talked about that issue before. We continue to do outreach to 

those citizens, understanding that they are the most underserved 

in our community, and we will continue to work through those 

issues and providing extensions along the way as best we can within the rules and regulations. 

We have listened to people. The Affordable Compensation Grant 

Program, which again, Secretary Donovan, we briefed him on it, he 

understood it, helping us raise the cap. I think he, as I understood 

the story, walked over to the Office of Management and Budget 

(OMB) himself—I don’t know if I was supposed to tell that story 

or not—and made the presentation himself, and Fred Thombar 

[ph.], who is one of his special assistants, called and said, ‘‘Hey, the 

Secretary is handling this.’’ 

We have put out $400 million, and you can see the progress for 

people who needed that money. Now, we just didn’t hand out a 

check. The Secretary said there has to be some rules around this. 

We have to put a case management program, and we did. And we 

have made great progress in those terms. 

Our elevation program, HUD is not used to doing elevation programs, and so when we went and said, look, we are working with 

Administrator Fugate on moving these elevation dollars out 

through the traditional Housing Mitigation Program, we need to 

front-load some of these elevation projects for homeowners using a 

$30,000 grant, we put out over $897 million in elevation grants, 

and you can see, obviously, that progress as you go around here 

and look at the homes in St. Bernard and Orleans and Cameron 

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and all through the recovery area. People are elevating their 

homes. 

And we are doing things, I think, much smarter here in Louisiana, with new building codes, with elevating homes. As you and 

I have worked with the Smart Growth Summit last week and talking about what we are doing with urban planning and the things 

that we are doing in the State, we are doing things smart and I 

am proud to be part of that culture of change, and it is very humbling to sit next to Doris, who has built some of the best schools 

in the country, I think, as you look at the sorts of things she is 

doing, taking FEMA Public Assistance money and taking Community Development Block Grant money and putting it together in a 

way that is a really smart investment for our communities. 

You can’t have people back without infrastructure, and the 

FEMA Public Assistance Program, and I think the things we have 

done with that program and working so closely with the FEMA Administrator and the challenges that we had with the Transitional 

Recovery Office here, and Secretary Napolitano, another good partner, brought in Tony Russell to work with us and we sat down in 

meeting after meeting after meeting with our State partners, Governor’s office, Homeland Security, and worked through issue after 

issue. 

We started off—in fact, I will never forget the meeting in 2008 

when Governor Jindal came in. I had my first meeting with FEMA 

and they told me we would never have more than $5 billion obligated, and today we are at $9 billion, and we have about 2,600 

more large projects to kind of work through, but nobody is complaining because we have a great process, a great partner, and we 

are going to get there, working together, and not arguing or yelling 

or just providing data back and forth, and a great example of that 

is the lump-sum settlement for $1.8 billion. You passed that legislation. It is fantastic. We worked very closely with our FEMA partners and the Office of Management and Budget and other members 

of the Obama Administration to make that happen and it was a 

great success. 

And I will finish with this, health care. We know we need health 

care. Well, we are in the process of purchasing property at a very 

rapid rate for the VA hospital and the charity hospital. We are 

going to do a groundbreaking in November. That is what we are 

pushing towards. We are going to work with the Mayor of New Orleans, Mayor Landrieu, on the fabric of that hospital and how it 

fits into the community, because I would never dare to cross him. 

Senator LANDRIEU. It is a good thing, because he is sitting right 

behind you. [Laughter.] 

Mr. RAINWATER. I could feel his presence. [Laughter.] 

And as Secretary Donovan said, we are in the process of—and 

again, he has been such an outstanding partner—the $30 million 

to help assist in clinics, still working with Centers for Medicare 

and Medicaid Services (CMS) to work out a few pieces of that. 

HUD has approved the usage, which I have never met an administrator that worked so outside the box, and I appreciate you very 

much, and with that, I will end. Thank you, Senator. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you very much. Doris. And we are 

going to pick up some time by limiting our questions, so the second 

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1The prepared statement of Ms. Voitier appears in the appendix on page 82. 

panel, just hold tight. We are going to try to get you all on in about 

15 minutes. 

TESTIMONY OF DORIS VOITIER,1 SUPERINTENDENT, ST. 

BERNARD PARISH SCHOOLS 

Ms. VOITIER. Well, good morning, and I am honored to have the 

opportunity to speak with you this morning and to spend some 

time highlighting our struggles as well as our progress. 

What happened on August 29, 2005, changed the face of our 

school district and the community we serve forever. In hindsight, 

there are some things from which we will never recover, yet there 

are also things that have admittedly moved us forward, and I am 

going to briefly paint a picture of our school system and community 

to you prior to the storm. 

We were a public school system that worked. Our kids scored 

above the State and national averages on standardized testing, the 

first district in the State of Louisiana to be fully accredited by 

Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS), universal 

four-year-old program, and we have won awards for fiscal responsibility and financial reporting before Hurricane Katrina hit. We 

were totally wiped out, as everyone knows, completely underwater, 

no land access to us whatsoever. The only way you could get in was 

by boat or landing a helicopter on the levee. 

But we were desperate right after Hurricane Katrina to restore 

educational services for this community. Our firefighters, our sheriff’s deputies, our essential personnel had never left, and the refineries which are so vital to this region and the country wanted to 

bring their workers back, and with them came families and children. And I don’t know how to impress upon everyone the importance of getting a school started, because when people want to 

come back to repopulate, the first thing they want to do is, what 

can I do with my children? Where can I put them in a safe environment? And schools are critical and crucial, right up there with all 

of the essential services that we must restore initially. 

So then there was also the uncertainty of funding. The mantra 

was, let the money follow the child, so we looked at Federal obligations with displaced student monies and even our normal Federal 

allocations. At first we were getting, send the money to where the 

kids are going and let it follow the child. Our State was in a situation where they felt that—I think about 30, 35 percent of the general operating fund for the State was generated by revenues in this 

region, so a Special Session was being called and part of that was, 

well, let us send the money where the kids are going and where 

the people are going. And then, of course, locally, we had nothing, 

no sales taxes coming in, no property taxes, because we were totally destroyed. 

So there was no course in college that I took in how to rebuild 

a school system from scratch 101 with no local, Federal, or State 

resources. So what did I think? I thought, well, my first response 

was, I live in the most powerful country in the world. Surely our 

Federal Government is going to come in and provide some assistance to get me up and running initially, and boy, was that a misH605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

25 

take. And I am just going to briefly paint this classic picture of 

what not to do. 

I think our FEMA kick-off meeting was the worst experience I 

have ever had in my entire life. We had 25 to 27 FEMA representatives from historic preservation, environmental review, 504 mitigation, 506 mitigation, interim housing. They all introduced themselves, set a stack of manuals down, and told us what not to do and 

what we couldn’t do. And my basic question to them—I said, well, 

all I need is some portable classrooms and some temporary housing, some of those little 8-by-29 trailers. Help me get those quickly 

so that I can provide educational services for the first child that enters St. Bernard Parish. 

So we started working. We were going to mission assign it to the 

Corps. We thought that was a great idea. I felt that there must 

have been contracts in place, resources that come in immediately 

and bring those to us, and I quickly found out and was gold that 

would not happen until March or April 2006. 

So we did what we should have done, or what I should have done 

from day one. We took matters into our own hands. We located 

classroom trailers in Georgia and North Carolina. We had them 

shipped down in 31⁄2 weeks. We opened a school with 334 children. 

So 11 weeks after the storm—— 

Senator LANDRIEU. Can we give her a round of applause for that, 

please? [Applause.] 

Ms. VOITIER. And in the interest of time, I am not going to go 

through some of these examples, but this was classic in what not 

to happen. What should have happened was someone on the 

ground should have been empowered to make those decisions hand 

in hand with local government as to what you needed. Secure the 

area, bring in the vital resources for education and for health care 

and get us started, and forget the manuals, forget the regulations. 

Bring it in and get us ready to go. Then step back and start imposing those. 

So the first lesson that I hope everyone has learned is how to coordinate from day one in the case of a catastrophic disaster a Federal response that would encompass Federal, State, and local authorities. 

Many people have asked us, how do we make it happen? What 

progress did we have? We have renovated and rebuilt 13 major 

school sites. We had the first two permanent buildings built in the 

metro area since the storm. All of our schools are state of the art. 

When we did the tour this morning, many of you saw the ninth 

grade academy and the new Cultural Arts Building, and we have 

plans to consolidate in what we call the Museum of Modern Art 

(MOMA) center, a planetarium, science interactive exhibits for 

kids, Hurricane Katrina history museum for the school system. 

And how do we accomplish it? Our school board immediately in 

March 2006, we got a plan together. We haven’t deviated from 

that. We have secured financing not only with FEMA funds, but 

with the Community Development Block Grant funds, insurance 

money, and for the first time, as a public educator, we never went 

out and did fundraising, but we have been able to raise money 

from the Exxon-Mobil Foundation, the Merrill Foundation, the Kellogg Foundation, Lions Club International, Energy, and the list 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

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goes on, in trying to form that true public-private partnership and 

be a little creative in the financing of these structures, which will 

serve an entire community as well as schools. 

There are just two things that I would quickly ask, because I 

know time is of the essence. I am not going to go through the whole 

thing. Two challenges that we have, as Congressman Scalise mentioned, is the Community Disaster Loan. We were eligible to borrow $34 million. We only borrowed $4.5 million because of these 

other sources coming in. We were financially responsible. We didn’t 

just go out and say, give me, give me, give me. We borrowed only 

what we needed. 

And because of the timing of this mess, they are telling us we 

are going to have to pay this back. We are beginning—we will 

begin, with the economy the way it is, to experience some deficits 

that other school systems across the country have already experienced, and some of that Category A and B FEMA money is considered in these calculations and whether or not you have to pay it 

back as operational expenses. Some of the money we moved to capital projects to do FEMA-ineligible projects, we are told, well, those 

are really operational funds that you had control over. So we are 

going to throw those in the calculation. Somebody has to look at 

that formula. 

Many people have told me, you should have borrowed the whole $34 million, increased salaries, hired more people, and do national 

recruitment of teachers to come into this community, and then you 

would show a deficit. But no, because we were fiscally responsible 

and we behaved in a prudent manner, we feel we are being penalized. 

And last, Senator, with the restart funds, the first year after 

Hurricane Katrina did this, Representative Melancon was kind 

enough, you all had your whole delegation down. We met and we 

talked about those restart funds, because initially we weren’t able 

to spend one penny because of the clauses in there for nonsupplanting, not only nonsupplanting of Federal funds, but more importantly, nonsupplanting of local and State monies. And because 

of that, we couldn’t spend a penny. I testified in Congress, in the 

House Committee on Education, just to that point. And you all 

were successful in getting the authority to grant waivers in that 

legislation. So if restart monies are coming to other communities 

in other disasters, really, that provision needs to be put in initially 

so that we don’t have to fight every year to get that done. 

So finally, I want to leave you with these thoughts. If you have 

doubts about funding a safer, more protected New Orleans area, if 

you have doubts about whether or not the stream of money that 

has come to the Gulf Coast is warranted, if you have any doubts 

about whether or not money has been used wisely or with integrity, 

I want you to tour this school building with me if you have a 

chance after the hearing. I will introduce you to 820 students who 

can resolve all doubt. Because with or without Federal assistance, 

they are back in school in St. Bernard Parish. They are striving. 

They are home. They once again have found normal and they are 

well on their way to becoming tomorrow’s leaders. And there are 

5,000 more like them in our other nine schools and hundreds of 

thousands along the Gulf region. 

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1The prepared statement of Mr. Schexnayder appears in the appendix on page 92. 

So it is said, if you want to touch the past, touch a rock. If you 

want to touch today, touch a flower. And if you want to touch the 

future, touch a child. So, ladies and gentlemen, your work has 

touched our future and we are grateful for your compassion and 

leadership. [Applause.] 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you. Mark. Mr. Schexnayder. 

TESTIMONY OF MARK SCHEXNAYDER,1 AGENT, LOUISIANA 

STATE UNIVERSITY AGRICULTURE CENTER 

Mr. SCHEXNAYDER. Can you give me a little better panel to follow? [Laughter.] 

Thank you, Senator Landrieu. I really feel like I am preaching 

to the choir. I might give you all a few minutes of my time back 

because I am really tired of talking about the coast, and I know 

you guys are, too. 

I want to apologize to your staff for—I had a job change. I am 

going from the LSU Ag Center program to the Wildlife and Fisheries to work on a seafood certification program. I did provide some 

testimony—— 

Senator LANDRIEU. Try to speak into the microphone. It is a little 

bit jumbled. There you go. 

Mr. SCHEXNAYDER. I just want to give you a few bullets about 

the fisheries and coastal restoration. As you guys know from the 

challenges of the BP disaster, the Gulf Coast, the seafood industry 

is vitally important, not only to the State’s economy, but to the 

local communities. The Gulf States account for 32 to 41 percent of 

the average commercial fishing production in the Lower 48 States. 

Louisiana provides 75 percent of that landings, and over 95 percent 

of all these fisheries are estuarine dependent. We lost 217 square 

miles of coastal land to open water just during Hurricanes Katrina 

and Rita and over 1,900 square miles in the last century to hydrologic modification, nutrients, sediments, starvation, and subsidence. 

The fisheries community, as you guys know, was devastated by 

the storms, both by Hurricanes Rita and Katrina, everything on 

the river, east of the river, the Gulf Coast sustained $580 million 

worth of storm damage. We had a lot of different programs that 

came in and they were very slow in coming, as you guys know, as 

everybody knows, I mean, every aspect of recovery. During that, we 

lost 2,000 commercial boats, 17,000 recreational boats, which we 

didn’t lose them. They became debris in the waterways which prevented the recovery of the communities. 

And I provided all these notes to you guys—— 

Senator LANDRIEU. That is OK. You can just summarize it. We 

have all the written testimony. 

Mr. SCHEXNAYDER. One of the projects that worked really well 

was the LRA stepped in with some of the block grant money and 

devised a project with Wildlife and Fisheries, the Seafood Promotion Board, and other groups to form a Fisheries Infrastructure 

Recovery Program for $20 million, and then an additional $9 million. They had a competitive process where we picked coastally resilient projects to develop publicly owned vessel staging areas. 

These are fairly important when you get a storm, because this last 

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28 

1The prepared statement of Ms. Anderson appears in the appendix on page 95. 

storm, we had no place to stage the boats. Getting them on barges 

greatly increased the cost and time to recover. We have a great 

project through that program with—that was the first, and then 

now in Venice, and now we are going from there with that program. 

We also developed a gear efficiency program to make the fishermen more efficient in their fishing efforts. Now we are doing 

through that program, to do a seafood certification, transparency. 

It all goes back to making the fishermen and the fishing communities more resilient. 

On the coastal land loss, I think Paul is right. We are at kind 

of a silo syndrome. I think we have lost our sense of urgency for 

coastal restoration. I think we need to look with the Corps of Engineers with the coastal protection projects, with their design-build 

lessons, building a billion-dollar gate in less than 2 years and another pump, another billion-dollar project. We need to bring that 

urgency and that actual process to the coastal restoration. We plan 

projects to death. They never get off the ground. 

We have, I think, the best U.S. Army Corps of Engineers 

(USACE) team we have ever had. The State has taken their resources and reorganized to be able to act quickly. We have a local 

flood protection authority. So I will work with—Tim is in the audience. They are focused on coastal restoration. We have everything, 

all the tools we need. So we just need to look at what we did with 

the coastal protection and put that to coastal restoration gain. 

And on the sense of urgency, one thing we could do is get the 

National Guard involved in some of these projects. The Bonnet 

Carre West Project, where we take water out of the lake and put 

it in, we could get that going tomorrow if we could just bring that 

design-build urgency back to the process. Thank you. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you, Mark, very much. Ms. Anderson. 

TESTIMONY OF LAUREN ANDERSON,1 CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NEIGHBORHOOD HOUSING SERVICES OF NEW ORLEANS 

Ms. ANDERSON. Good morning. Thank you, Madam Chairman, 

Members of Congress, for providing and using the occasion of the 

fifth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina as an opportunity to reflect 

on the lessons that can be learned in this tragedy. 

One of the thoughts that sustained me in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina was a Chinese saying that within every crisis lies an 

opportunity, and Hurricane Katrina certainly has presented us 

with many opportunities to learn as individuals and grow as a body 

politic. 

Neighborhood Housing Services (NHS) was founded 30 years ago 

to help stabilize faltering neighborhoods, and throughout our history, we have been committed to making New Orleans a better 

place to live for all of its residents. We have done so by improving 

our historic housing stock, by giving families the tools to improve 

their financial capacity, and by working in close partnership with 

residents, government, and businesses to improve the quality of life 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

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in our neighborhoods. We are a member of the NeighborWorks Network, which was founded and is supported by Congress. 

My immediate reaction after the levees broke was that all the 

work that we had accomplished in the past decade or more had literally been washed away. We had helped thousands of working 

class families achieve the dream of home ownership and their 

homes washed away. We had made tremendous strides in turning 

around the Freret neighborhood from one of disinvestment to being 

a neighborhood of choice, and it was underwater. 

For a time, I really felt that our work had been for naught, and 

then I began learning some critical Hurricane Katrina lessons. As 

it related to home ownership, we began to learn that as difficult 

as it was for homeowners to return home and to build, by and 

large, they were better off than renters because they had a little 

bit more control over their destiny. The numbers speak to this. The 

percentage of home owners in New Orleans has increased since 

Hurricane Katrina from 46 percent to 53 percent, not because the 

rate of the home ownership has increased, but because homeowners 

have been able to return home at a faster rate than renters. 

Therefore, continuing to work with working class families to 

achieve the American dream of home ownership in a responsible 

manner by improving their credit, reducing debt, and giving them 

financial literacy is still an important role for nonprofits working 

in partnership with government and local lenders. 

There are two greater lessons that we have learned from Hurricane Katrina. First is that community matters, and also the importance of helping residents to be organized within their neighborhoods and to be empowered to actively engage in civic matters. 

Hurricane Katrina was an equal opportunity disaster. Neighborhoods rich and poor, black and white, flooded when the levees 

broke. The ability of neighborhoods to recover has underscored the 

influence of class, race, and access to capital. 

But I hypothesized that there was one other influence on the resiliency of neighborhoods and that was the degree to which they 

were organized prior to Hurricane Katrina. The degree to which 

neighborhoods had preexisting strong neighborhood associations 

that were able to quickly mobilize had a distinct advantage over 

those neighborhoods that did not. Community organizing, strengthening the community-based organizations and neighborhood associations matters to the vitality of our neighborhoods. 

We did not just lose buildings when our levees broke. We lost 

communities. The fabric of life was torn apart. What we have experienced in the intervening 5 years is that as determined as residents were to rebuild their homes, they were equally determined 

to rebuild their communities. We all witnessed in the early years 

after Hurricane Katrina the sacrifice of time and energy residents 

were willing to make to be a part of the planning processes 

throughout our community. I won’t recount the number of overlapping planning efforts and meetings that occurred, but even while 

people were having to rebuild their houses, they were willing to devote hours and hours to being a part of meetings and planning for 

the future of their neighborhoods. 

We live in a country where people want to be involved. They 

want to be a part of the solution and not just bystanders to desH605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

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tinies. Our challenge as leaders is to how to empower people to be 

active participants in our democracy, to have the tools to do more 

than vote, to do more than protest, but to be able to be a full partner with government to make their community a better place. 

So my comments now focus on some of these—how we have implemented some of these lessons learned post-Hurricane Katrina, 

and I will use our work in the Freret neighborhood uptown to demonstrate that. 

The work that the (NHS) did in the Freret neighborhood provides 

examples of the way that nonprofits, residents, businesses, and 

government have been able to work together and forge an active 

partnership to create a better neighborhood. NHS’s response in the 

Freret community, and we have replicated this also in the Seventh 

Ward, was to provide an opportunity for residents to come together 

to reconnect and provide the opportunity to listen to determine 

what people wanted for their neighborhood. 

We began this with facilitated conversation in early 2006 to discern their vision for their neighborhood. More than 80 residents 

turned out that evening, which was twice the number of residents 

who would typically attend a neighborhood association meeting, 

and even more significant because the population was down by 

more than 50 percent. What we learned was that the residents of 

the neighborhood had a commitment and a vision to recreate that 

neighborhood the way it was before, to be a very diverse, vibrant 

neighborhood. 

Because so many places and institutions where people gathered 

had been lost due to the storm, our next step, with significant support from NeighborWorks, was to open a neighborhood center in 

the Freret neighborhood that became a gathering place for residents, children through senior citizens. The Freret Neighborhood 

Center sought a clear mandate from the residents as to how to 

focus our efforts in the rebuilding of our neighborhood, and therefore, we conducted a door-to-door survey in the neighborhood. 

When we asked, what was the primary concern for the neighborhood, the Freret residents’ most common response was vacant and 

run-down buildings. Thus, our vacant property campaign began. In 

June 2008, NHS with the help of students and residents surveyed 

every property in the neighborhood, more than 1,300, to locate vacant and neglected properties. We determined whether the building 

was vacant or occupied, its condition, and whether or not it was 

under construction. We then plotted all these properties on a Geographic Information Systems (GIS) map to provide baseline data 

and the tool for our future work. 

Residents then began to develop the means to reach out to the 

owners of these distressed properties. They wrote hundreds of letters to property owners using their own knowledge of how to find 

these people rather than city records to be able to contact them and 

reach them. These letters included a photograph of the property 

and an inquiry, not a threat, as to the owner’s intent and what the 

obstacles the owners were facing to rebuilding their homes. Neighbors connected with neighborhood to resources and then became effective caseworkers for those homeowners. We have created databases and computer tools that have given neighbors the ability to 

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31 

be the solution to the problem in our Freret neighborhood rather 

than looking to government to solve the problem. 

So I am going to end by posing some questions for us, because 

I do believe that the lessons we have learned in our work post-Hurricane Katrina throughout New Orleans, not just in the Freret 

neighborhood, is that we need to be able to provide the means and 

the tools to help residents become engaged and become active members of our democracy, not just voting on election day, although 

that is important, but what we as a nonprofit have been able to do 

is to provide technical skills and staff support that then mobilize 

and energize and empower residents to be community leaders. 

And the question is, how do we replicate that? How do we expand this work locally, and then how do we use these lessons 

throughout the country? 

I thank you for this opportunity to help inform this conversation 

going forward. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you so much. Let us give our whole 

panel a round of applause. [Applause.] 

We normally don’t do this at Congressional hearings, as my colleagues will note, but I think this panel most certainly deserves applause. 

I am going to make an executive decision that we are going to 

pass the question period, because we have elected officials that are 

here that have very busy schedules that are on the second panel 

and I want to accommodate those. But I will say that the record 

of this hearing will remain open for 2 weeks, and if any of the 

Members have questions, you can put those questions in writing 

and, of course, you will receive answers. And I actually have a 

whole list of questions in my mind and I am sure the Members do, 

as well. But in honor of time constraints, and we are committed to 

wrap this up at 12:30, we are going to move on to the second panel. 

We have heard the enormous work of housing, both home ownership and renters, and the challenges ahead. 

Mr. Rainwater talked about the new procedures in place and 

strategic partnerships at the Federal, State, and local level. 

Obviously, Doris Voitier gave us a great insight into the struggles of school systems, some that were mediocre and some that 

were excellent in this region and how they have all tried to recover 

in their own way and how we are going to try to make all of them 

as excellent as possible. 

Mark, thank you for your comments about fisheries. We sometimes forget the very important industry. 

And finally, Ms. Anderson, thank you for your comments about 

neighborhoods and nonprofits. When the Federal Government right 

after Hurricane Katrina said, well, this isn’t what government can 

do, maybe your volunteers and nonprofits could do it, as we know, 

they lost their houses, too, and I don’t know where we go to raise 

the money for all of our nonprofits since most everybody lost a job. 

We need support for nonprofits because nonprofits can leverage a 

tremendous amount of effort and you are an example of that. 

Thank you so much, and let us give them a round of applause. 

[Applause.] 

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32 

Mr. MELANCON. As we change, I just need to ask Doris Voitier, 

I meant to ask you this a long time ago. Did you save those shoes 

that you kicked butt with? [Laughter.] 

I would like to see about putting them in the Smithsonian. 

Ms. VOITIER. Well, we have a great relationship with FEMA now. 

And I did want to publicly thank Tony Russell and John—— 

Senator LANDRIEU. We will take a few minutes to change. 

[Pause.] 

If the second panel would take their seats so that we can proceed, and thank you so much for your patience. 

I thank you all very much. The first panel was, as you could tell, 

focused on livelihoods and housing and human connections that are 

necessary to recover. This panel is about infrastructure generally 

and the importance of the physical infrastructure, whether it is 

buildings or roads or levees, and what it takes to make a community strong and resilient and to be a basis for economic development. 

And so we are very pleased to have with us the FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate, who will testify first. He has served as FEMA 

Administrator since 2009. This is his fifth time testifying before 

this Subcommittee. We are honored to have him again. He has 

been a partner in our work to help create a better, smarter, more 

agile FEMA and we really appreciate the experience that he brings 

to us previously as Director of the Florida Division of Emergency 

Management. So he is most certainly trained as a firefighter, as a 

paramedic, and then spent many years in Florida fighting hurricanes there, and he brings all of that experience to Washington, 

D.C., great leadership to his agency. 

General Robert Van Antwerp was appointed to serve as the Chief 

of Engineers and Commanding General of the Corps of Engineers. 

General, we are honored to have you today. He holds a Master’s 

degree in mechanical engineering from the University of Michigan. 

He is himself a professional engineer. He has been on point for 

many years now on this recovery and I am glad that many of the 

students, General, were able to meet you today. They are very 

grateful for the levees that surround this building. 

Mayor Mitch Landrieu was elected Mayor of New Orleans in a 

historic landslide in February of this year. Prior to becoming 

Mayor, he served two terms as our Lieutenant Governor, where he 

led efforts after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita to rebuild the tourism 

industry, bring jobs back to the region, and promote our cultural 

economy. Mr. Mayor, we are grateful to have you today. 

Kevin Davis is President of St. Tammany Parish. He was elected 

in 2000. He has served three terms. Under his leadership, the Parish of St. Tammany has moved steadily towards recovery from the 

2005 and 2008 hurricanes. This is his second time to testify before 

this Subcommittee. We are honored to have him with us today and 

we thank you, Kevin, for your really extraordinary leadership in St. 

Tammany Parish, particularly in the Slidell area, which was so 

hard hit by Hurricane Katrina. 

And then, finally, Sheriff Jiff Hingle assumed office in 

Plaquemines Parish in 1992. He is serving his fifth term. Sheriff 

Hingle worked tireless to reorganize and modernize and reinvigorate law enforcement in Plaquemines Parish, one of the hardest hit 

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33 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Fugate appears in the appendix on page 106. 

parishes. After Hurricane Katrina, the Sheriff coordinated the 

evacuation and rescue missions of the parish, led efforts for recovery of the Sheriff’s facilities, and, I might add, has been a leader 

of law enforcement for the whole region, as other sheriffs have depended on him and looked to him for leadership and guidance. So, 

Sheriff Hingle, we are grateful for you to be here today. 

Let us start with you, Mr. Fugate, if you don’t mind, and if we 

could limit our remarks to 5 minutes each, we would appreciate it, 

and then we will have a round of questions. 

TESTIMONY OF HON. W. CRAIG FUGATE,1 ADMINISTRATOR, 

FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY 

Mr. FUGATE. Well, good morning, Chairman Landrieu and Congressmen. This 5-year anniversary, I am not going to go into much 

depth. You did great talking points about how bad it was. Why do 

I need to repeat what we were seeing up on the screen and we 

know has happened? 

Again, as you pointed out, as the Obama Administration came in, 

one of the first acts for Secretary Napolitano and Secretary Donovan was to come here to the Gulf Coast region, look at what was 

occurring, probably more importantly what had not been occurring, 

and take those steps to start enhancing the recovery. Secretary 

Napolitano made some key decisions. First of all was to bring in 

some new leadership, new eyes and a fresh approach to problem 

solving to the FEMA team. Also, working with the State and 

GOHSEP to begin an expedited process of clearing a backlog of 

projects that we are still unable to get to resolution. In addition to 

that, your Subcommittee, with the support of Congress, passed key 

provisions that gave us new tools, such as arbitration which would 

be binding, the ability to combine large projects, additional assistance and other programs to move through this backlog. 

As has already been mentioned, one of those people that Secretary Napolitano had appointed was Tony Russell, an experienced 

Federal Coordinating Officer (FCO) who came in to begin that process. It was also on that day that Tony was brought in that I was 

announced that I would be nominated to be the next Administrator 

of FEMA, and I was here and met with many folks to hear what 

again the challenges were. 

As I came on board and Tony and I met and we came back to 

Louisiana and we sat down with our counterparts at GOHSEP, I 

think one of the most important things that Tony brought back to 

the table was sitting down and talking. We had become too oriented on process. We were spending too much time going back and 

forth over procedures. And we brought back a discussion that we 

would not always be able to agree on everything, but we needed to 

start focusing on outcomes. 

I think today on the bus tour, we actually saw some of those outcomes. We saw buildings that were destroyed, critical public infrastructure such as fire stations and schools and others that are either under construction or have been completed. And we saw on 

the port the new Administration building, completed and reopened, 

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the fire stations that are being built, not only to provide public 

safety protection, but also a wise investment of taxpayers’ dollars, 

to be built to provide safety for the firefighters when there is a disaster, but also to make those buildings more resilient so they are 

there afterwards. 

This process has enabled us to, in the last year and a half, on 

behalf of the President and Secretary Napolitano, to have released 

over $2.5 billion in projects, but we are not done and we have not 

finished building everything that needs to be rebuilt, and we still 

have work to be done, as you announced yesterday, still significant 

work to be done in the school districts and other public infrastructure. 

Our commitment on behalf of the President and Secretary 

Napolitano is to continue to meet and sit down and use our tools 

more effectively. As you have pointed out and have asked me numerous times, it has been, ‘‘Craig, do we need to change the Stafford Act? ’’ And I have asked that, let us look at our process and 

procedures first, because in many cases, Tony was able to get to 

the same solutions that we thought we couldn’t do without changing the Stafford Act merely by not focusing in on a process but 

going back to what the law’s intention was, what the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) told us we could do, and not limiting ourselves by perceived limitations that may have been something that 

had been stated previously but were not actually based in the law 

or rules that were adopted to implement that. But these challenges 

continue and the rebuilding is not over and the work must be done. 

I also know that when I testified, that a lot of times questions 

would come up before I testified. I would rather just go ahead and 

let us get to some of the issues that have been raised. The Community Disaster Loan Program and the forgiveness of those loans and 

the process we are going through in the first round is resulting, I 

think, in questions about the intention of forgiving these based 

upon the impacts to the economies and to the tax base of the communities receiving these loans. Yesterday as we were talking with 

the Superintendent here in the St. Bernard Parish School District 

of some of the ways that the auditors were looking at what was 

being treated as income. 

I think what I owe back to you, because we were given specific 

legislation to address this issue, is to look at what we are finding 

in our initial reviews. Again, this is, I don’t think, a process that 

we are—we do the first round of forgiveness and then we are done. 

I think we go through the first round of forgiveness and find what 

we did. Then we look at the ones that we did not reach that same 

conclusion and we go, why not, and we go back to the law and go, 

what was the intention and half way through that process not been 

able to address that? We may very well find that there will be 

those loans that won’t be forgiven because the income of that particular taxing authority is sufficient to provide for repayment. But 

if we cannot and we still think there may be issues, we owe you 

back a report of what the legislation directed us, how we implemented that, and what the gaps were to get there. 

But we did hear yesterday enough for me and Tony Russell to 

come back. I want to sit down and go, in the audit process, how 

are we looking at income? Are we treating reimbursements from 

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35 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Antwerp appears in the appendix on page 116. 

FEMA as income versus that should not be used in that? Are we 

using accounting principles which would make sense if we were 

doing an annual Single Audit Act-type audit? Are we looking at 

this under the provision of what is the revenue stream impacts? 

Within that, we have had some flexibility where we have allowed 

the applicants to pick the 36-month period. So we didn’t start immediately after the hurricane, where some had rapid increases in 

population which skewed their tax numbers, or maybe the revenue 

streams and doesn’t reflect the overall revenue stream as you go 

forward. 

So again, we are working those. We know that is a concern. And 

we are working to go through this first cut to determine what we 

can do, what we cannot do, and come back and report if we need 

additional guidance or legislation. Thank you. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you so much, Administrator, and 

again, this is a perfect example. He knows he is going to get this 

question from this panel, so he has already answered it. I know 

Congressmen Scalise and Melancon are about ready to jump out of 

their chairs on this question, so thank you for being so forward in 

that way and we will have follow-up questions. General. 

TESTIMONY OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL ROBERT VAN ANTWERP, JR.,1 CHIEF OF ENGINEERS, U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS 

General VAN ANTWERP. Chairman Landrieu, Members of the 

Subcommittee thank you very much, for the opportunity to be able 

to testify before you today. I am going to show a few slides. They 

have been running; they show some of the pictures that we have 

of these great projects behind you as we go along. 

The Corps has made significant progress on the Hurricane and 

Storm Damage Risk Reduction System (HSDRRS) in the last 5 

years. Over 270 contracts have been awarded and over $9 billion 

obligated. I would like to note that 60 percent of these awards have 

gone to Louisiana-based firms, and over $2.25 billion to small and 

disadvantaged businesses, about 30 percent of the total. The total 

Federal funds appropriated is $14.45 billion. 1.5 billion of that is 

included for the non-federal cost share with repayment over 30- 

years. The State’s cost is estimated at $1.7 billion. 

After Hurricane Katrina, the firm Administration commitment 

and quick Congressional action enabled the Corps to repair and restore 220 miles of the system. These photos show the Inner Harbor 

Navigation Canal (IHNC) breach site and the rebuilt flood wall 

that was completed in 2006. The system in place performed as designed during Hurricanes Gustav and Ike in 2008, where we had 

a 12-foot storm surge, as depicted in this photo. So it worked. 

The Corps is totally committed to providing a system that will 

defend against the effects of a 100-year storm in June 2011, and 

work will continue beyond 2011 for some of the systems’ features 

like the permanent pumps, but won’t affect our ability to withstand 

that 100-year storm. 

The four major project partnership agreements necessary to proceed with construction were signed with the Coastal Protection and 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

36 

Restoration Authority (CPRA), and we also signed agreements with 

the State, all the agreements we need to extend its payments for 

its cost share portion over a 30-year period. 

In accordance with the Water Resources Development Act 

(WRDA) of 2007, the Corps has implemented a robust independent 

external peer review system to include overall design criteria and 

other important facets. We are seeking the best solutions humanly 

possible. 

Interim closure structures and pump stations at the three outfall 

canals provide a 100-year level of risk reduction, as depicted in this 

photo. You have the pre-Hurricane Katrina on the left and the current photo of the 17th Street Canal on your right. But they are not 

permanent facilities. They were designed and built in 2006 with an 

estimated project life of 5 to 7 years. 

We will include adaptable design measures in the permanent solutions that are within our current authority. This is a picture of 

the concept for the future permanent pump stations. It does have 

a lower sill, so that if there is another alternative later on for the 

canals, it will be adaptable. 

The state-of-the-art Inner Harbor Navigation Canal (IHNC) 

Surge Barrier Project on Lake Borgne includes a concrete pile-supported wall across the Gulf Intercoastal Waterway (GIWW) and 

Mississippi River Gulf Outlet and three gated structures. The 

group of these photos shows the sequence of events since 2007 on 

this project. It is the largest design-build civil works contract the 

Corps has ever had, so we are very proud of it. It will reduce the 

risk to the Ninth Ward, Gentilly, New Orleans East, Orleans 

Metro, and St. Bernard Parishes. 

The project has navigation safety features and a more robust 

barrier wall and added nourishment of 705 acres of marshland. The 

project is now 75 percent complete. The wall and surge barrier are 

already complete, and this photo shows a comparison of the new 

flood wall to the tie in, so you just see the stark contrast of that 

new one to the old one. 

The Gulf Intercoastal Waterway West Closure Complex will reduce risk for the West Bank portions of Jefferson, Orleans, and 

Plaquemines Parish by removing over 25 miles of levees, flood 

walls, gates, and pump stations. The progress of this complex is 

seen in this set of photographs. 

Following Hurricane Katrina, about 80 percent of the St. Bernard Parish levees were either repaired or constructed to achieve 

the pre-Hurricane Katrina authorized elevation. With the rigorous 

public involvement process, the Corps determined that T-walls on 

top of the existing levees provided the best solutions to provide a 

100-year risk reduction. Construction of 23 miles of floodwalls, proceeding at the rate of about two miles per month, is scheduled to 

be completed in 2011, and that is what these photos show, the St. 

Bernard floodwall. 

Closure of the Mississippi Gulf Outlet (MRGO) was completed in 

July 2009 using about 350,000 tons of rock. A study to identify the 

best ways to restore the wetlands is currently underway. 

And finally, I would like to just mention the Louisiana Coastal 

Protection and Restoration (LACPR) Final Technical Report. It was 

submitted to Congress. This is the long-term plan that we are 

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37 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Landrieu appears in the appendix on page 125. 

working, embedded with the State of Louisiana, to come up with 

a master plan that will develop a long-range solution for defense 

of the coast. 

So, Madam Chairman, that concludes my comments and I appreciate the opportunity to be here with you today. Thank you. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you, General, very much, and we will 

have questions following the presentations. Mayor Landrieu. 

TESTIMONY OF MITCHELL J. LANDRIEU,1MAYOR, CITY OF 

NEW ORLEANS 

Mr. LANDRIEU. Thank you, Madam Chairperson and Members of 

the Subcommittee. I want to just, if I could, thank the panel that 

was before, all of the individuals that were on that panel and all 

the individuals on this panel have been great partners of mine and 

the City of New Orleans throughout. 

I would start off generally by saying this, that notwithstanding 

all of the Federal money that has been sent to the Gulf Coast, it 

still does not approximate the level of damage that actually occurred. And notwithstanding how much better the system is working, there still is a gap between damage and resources necessary 

to get it back like it was before or better, although we have made 

some tremendous strides. And within that context, all of us continue to operate to try to understand what happened 5 years ago 

and how to make it better. 

For example, as we sit here today, it is worth noting, although 

we are celebrating the fifth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina, that 

this area has suffered from a number of disasters—Hurricanes 

Katrina, Rita, Ike, Gustav, the national recession, and the BP oil 

spill. And that is worth noting, because as we think about how to 

structure our responses, we have to find a way to become more 

flexible, break down the stovepipes that exist horizontally and 

vertically within government to move resources down to the ground 

more quickly. I think that is our overall challenge. Everything that 

we are talking about today fits into that phrase. 

It is true that we have had some great successes. I think the announcement of the 1.8 lump sum settlement for schools is just a 

tremendous success in so many ways. Number one, it is going to 

give us the resources necessary in New Orleans to build a first 

class 21st Century school system. But it is also, as Craig alluded 

to earlier, a new model, Senator Landrieu, based on your legislation that has allowed FEMA to assess a situation and to respond 

to it differently. And the reason that is so critically important to 

know and hope that Congressional authorization expands into 

FEMA’s work is when you are trying to rebuild the city or you are 

trying to rebuild a parish, you can’t plan long-term if you don’t 

know what money is coming in. 

And, of course, as you try to rebuild the City of New Orleans and 

you are trying to rebuild neighborhoods, as Secretary Donovan 

spoke about with the amazing work that has gone on in the housing initiative, you try to build what we call place-based development, and it is important to be able to know what resources are 

going to be available because you just don’t build the house. You 

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38 

have to build it next to a school, and the school needs to be next 

to the health clinic. So I was again thrilled by Secretary Donovan’s 

announcement that he is going to allow CDBG money to be used 

to continue to fund the 87 health care clinics. 

Suffice it to say that from the ground looking up, it is important 

to have stability and predictability so that we can actually master 

plan, so smart growth policies can actually be implemented as opposed to one-offs on whether or not a particular firehouse is going 

to be rebuilt. 

And so I would encourage Congress and the Senate to give broader authorization to FEMA to settle lump sum with parishes and 

mayors all over the country, because we have more storms coming, 

other catastrophes. That is a great tool that allows us greater flexibility and I believe that you will see the benefit of that. In the City 

of New Orleans, we are rebuilding everything. I think you have 

seen some successes there. But we have a long way to go. 

Let me just hit a couple of other points, because we are going to 

talk a lot about the great things that are happening, but there are 

some challenges that we have coming forward. For example, we 

still have to rebuild police, fire, and recreation. We are talking to 

Mr. Fugate now. We have a great relationship with them. The relationship with the State has been much better. Everything is working the way it is supposed to be working, but all of us have challenges. So we would like to do lump-sum settlements on police, fire, 

and recreation. We also have terrific challenges with the surge and 

Water Board. 

On top of that, I want to reiterate the urgency with which to deal 

with CDL, because that is going to be a burden that we are going 

to carry for a long time and that is a critical burden that we want 

to try to ameliorate over time. 

And finally, I think the Corps of Engineers has really done a superb job. The wall that was built is not only a testament to great 

engineering, but it is also going to give us great protection. Having 

said that, I believe the Corps understands, and, of course, all of us 

understand that 100-year flood protection is not adequate to protect what it is that we know is coming our way. The Corps, I know, 

was operating under authorization and financial limits, but I would 

strongly encourage all of us to continue to talk about finding a commitment to make sure that we protect the area. 

Senator Landrieu, you and many of you have been to the Netherlands. We understand the threat that we are under. The BP oil 

spill has again highlighted the incredible issue of restoring the 

coast, moving the levees up, making sure the building codes are 

where they are going to be if we are going to have a sustainable 

community over time, because if we rebuild the inner cities of the 

parishes but we don’t have that outer layer of protection, we really 

are working for naught. So I think that is critically important. 

As we move forward, I do want to just reiterate how much better 

everybody is working together. I am very pleased with the tremendous support that we have received from President Obama. Many 

of his cabinet members have been down here multiple times and 

will continue to be here. Our working relationship with FEMA is 

really going very, very well. We have teams of people sitting in the 

same room all day now, from FEMA to the Office of Community 

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39 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Davis appears in the appendix on page 127. 

Development (OCD), the Governor’s folks, our folks on the city level 

as we speak are sitting in rooms working out these difficulties. But 

there are limitations that we have that could be loosened up that 

will allow us to do our work faster. 

So as we move into this anniversary, it is true that, by necessity, 

this area of the country has become the most important laboratory 

for innovation and change, just out of necessity. We are doing 

things here that nobody else in the country has been able to do because the fabric of our community got torn apart. So we have a special obligation to get it right. I know that you will and you will take 

these messages back to your colleagues. Thank you all so much. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. 

President Davis of St. Tammany Parish. 

TESTIMONY OF KEVIN DAVIS,1 PRESIDENT, ST. TAMMANY 

PARISH 

Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Senator Landrieu and Members of the 

Subcommittee and Congressional members. I will skip, because I 

know we are running out of time. I am here today to focus on lessons we learned and lessons we hope the Federal Government 

would learn. 

First, we learned that the Federal Emergency Management 

Agency does not manage emergencies. They manage the accounting 

that goes with emergencies. We learned that we must be self-sufficient in the emergency response for at least 5 days. We learned 

that if you clean anything at all, even in the interest of public safety, you had better have FEMA’s paperwork complete and signed off 

at every level if you hope for reimbursement. We learned that the 

well-meaning FEMA workers on the ground change quickly, and 

with that change of personnel the interpretations of the Stafford 

Act. I would like to give you a specific example. 

Hurricane Katrina stripped thousands of cubic yards of marshland from coastal marshes in the Federal Wildlife Management 

Area—this is a Federal Wildlife Management Area—and just deposited them in waterways and canals and homes. Imagine, if you 

will, a home filled with five feet of mud and grass. We were successful in arguing that we could clean the marsh grass in the 

drainage ditches even though it was considered rooted vegetation 

because the grass grew roots because it took so long to get approval. However, FEMA had never approved the cleaning of the 

waterways. St. Tammany Parish has been forced to incur the cost 

to remove the debris. It is inconceivable that this work was not eligible under FEMA’s rules. I submit that the only reason for this 

ruling was the inconsistent and cavalier application of FEMA’s 

Public Assistance Program based on biased individuals. 

Be that as it may, the parish is about to complete cleaning these 

canals as I speak. In fact, the work is considered by many State 

and Federal agencies to be a model for debris removal and coastal 

restoration. We removed the debris in the canals by using a hydraulic dredge to pipe the debris back to the nearby Federal Big 

Branch National Wildlife Refuge from which it came. We are removing the hurricane debris, removing the navigational and drainH605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

40 

1The prepared statement of Mr. Hingle appears in the appendix on page 131. 

age threats, and restoring Federal coastal marsh at the same time. 

Under FEMA’s current policies, such a project is prohibited. This 

makes no sense to me, especially it is far less expensive than many 

of FEMA’s own proposals which they later denied to clean the same 

area. 

And now I want to go just a little bit further and I want to mention the current disaster in which we are here in Louisiana and the 

Gulf Coast, battling the BP oil spill. Needless to say, this is a blow 

to continued recovery efforts. While FEMA’s role in the response to 

BP oil spill certainly is limited to date, we cannot forget that this 

is hurricane season. 

In order to plan for response to a storm that this season, with 

the added threat of oil spill contamination, I initiated a dialogue 

with BP, the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), the U.S. 

Coast Guard, Louisiana Governor’s Office of Homeland Security, 

and the Louisiana Department of Environmental Quality, and 

FEMA. Every agency but FEMA was interested in discussing and 

agreeing to procedures to address questions related to the oil spill. 

FEMA’s response was that they were coming up with their own 

rules. There was no need for discussion. To date, I have not received any guidance or procedures from FEMA pertaining to the 

storm response and the handling of the debris in light of possible 

oil spill contamination as a result of this hurricane season. 

To me, and I am sorry, Mr. Fugate, he stated that—and I have 

great respect for him, I will tell you that, and I think he is trying, 

but I want him to know today that just yesterday, I met with all 

of our agencies in St. Tammany Parish about the CDL loans, and 

I have to tell you, it is not happening on the ground, Mr. Fugate. 

They have told us directly in meetings, you have 5 days to sign this 

paperwork. You will sign it, and these are the numbers. We have 

had very little dialogue in reference to the capital expenditures, our 

budgets, our operating revenues, and the like. So I would request 

that you would work with us closely in reference to the CDL loans, 

and I want to thank you for the opportunity. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you very much. Sheriff Hingle. 

TESTIMONY OF JIFF HINGLE,1 SHERIFF, PLAQUEMINES 

PARISH 

Sheriff HINGLE. Thank you, Madam Chairman and Members of 

the Subcommittee. Hurricane Katrina completely destroyed the 

Plaquemines Parish Sheriff’s Office (PPSO) Detention Center located in Pointe a la Hache. On first availability, the Sheriff’s Office 

and FEMA met to discuss assistance in rebuilding the detention facility. From the beginning, the talks agreed that a temporary detention facility was necessary due to the duration of time needed 

to build a permanent one and the fact that the Sheriff’s Office had 

no place to hold their prisoners. The following is a summary of 

events that have unfolded from that time. 

August 2006, the LeBlanc Group was contacted to assist in the 

bid package for the demolition of the existing detention center that 

had been destroyed. The LeBlanc Group was the architect and engineer (A&E) of the damaged facility and had the expertise and inH605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

41 

formation necessary to safely move the demolition forward. The 

damaged detention facility was successfully removed by February 

2007. 

In March 2007, we advertised for an architect-engineering service for a temporary facility. The LeBlanc Group was awarded the 

contract in May of that year and began work on the original temporary facility design. The original proposal was to build the temporary facility at grade level using modular units. During that period, the design of the temporary detention facility was halted due 

to advisory base flood elevation (ABFE) concerns raised by FEMA. 

Eventually, the LeBlanc Group decided they could no longer afford 

to wait on the constant delays created by FEMA regarding the base 

flood elevation and asked to be relieved of their contractual obligations. 

Madam Chairman, I have entered all this into the record. This 

is a very long and tedious presentation. I am not going to read it 

all. I would like to say that the base flood elevations were finally 

determined in July of this year. We are working with FEMA and 

have signed a Project worksheet (PW) that has been sent to Washington that hopefully will begin construction of the permanent facility. We have abandoned the idea of a temporary facility altogether. 

If we receive our PW as promised by the end of this year, advertise for bid, and by the spring go out for construction, with the construction time, you will be there with me for the cutting of the ribbon of that facility on the tenth anniversary of Hurricane Katrina. 

I want to thank the Senator and I want to thank Congressman 

Melancon for all of their assistance over these years in pushing 

FEMA forward on this. I also want to thank some sheriff friends 

of mine, former Sheriff Litchfield from Baton Rouge, former Sheriff 

Lee from Jefferson, Sheriff Norman of Jefferson, and Sheriff 

Marlon Gusman of New Orleans, who have held my prisoners all 

this time. Without their assistance, we would not have been able 

to run a successful Sheriff’s operation in Plaquemines Parish. 

I have to say that during this time period, we finally saw some 

light a year ago and that light began when Tony Russell came to 

New Orleans. The roadblock that we had experienced for almost 4 

years was finally opened within about a 90-day period with faceto-face conversations with Mr. Russell and I thank him for that. It 

has taken us a little while to finish this, but I do see progress now 

and light at the end of the tunnel. And I want to thank all of you 

for being here today and hearing this testimony and working with 

us, not only in the past, but I know working with us in the future. 

Thank you. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you, Sheriff. 

I am going to begin with just the first few minutes of questions 

and then move down the panel. 

I would like, just for the record, to establish the question I am 

going to ask on the Community Development Loans for Mr. Mayor, 

for you to just say into the record what the total budget of Orleans 

Parish is, roughly, your budget, the city. You might want to throw 

in what, if you do know, what the school board is, because I guess 

those combined would be the two largest. What is your general—— 

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42 

Mr. LANDRIEU. I don’t have the school board number. The city’s 

number is $451 million on city general fund dollars. And, of course, 

when the Federal dollars are laid on top of that, it is approximately 

a billion dollars. We don’t operate the school system, so I don’t 

have those numbers available. 

Senator LANDRIEU. But that is very, very good for this question. 

Kevin, what is your total budget? 

Mr. DAVIS. 101 million. 

Senator LANDRIEU. A hundred-and-one million. And Jiff, what is 

your budget? 

Sheriff HINGLE. Twenty million. 

Senator LANDRIEU. OK. The question—I am glad to have that on 

the record, because I want to say that at the time of Hurricane 

Katrina—Mr. Fugate, this—that the Federal Government allowed 

these officials to borrow a total amount of money of $5 million. 

That was the cap in the Federal law. So I want to ask you, what 

would $5 million do for them, and could you comment on this whole 

loan situation that has been a nightmare for us and how we are 

going to find justice on this issue. 

Mr. FUGATE. Madam Chairman, I think, first of all, I have actually had this conversation with the Emergency Manager Commissioner for the City of New York, and $5 million wouldn’t even be, 

I think, a half-day of their personnel budget. 

The Community Disaster Loan Program, as you point out, is 

something we are going to have to look at, expanding that, but I 

think there is a more fundamental question. In the gravity of the 

situation and erosion of the tax base and the likely costs that are 

going to occur, should we be looking at a loan or looking at a grant 

program? 

Historically, under the Stafford Act, operating costs were not 

generally considered eligible if there was a tax revenue stream that 

would be expected to pay for that. And so disruptions in tax base— 

we look at, in the Stafford Act, for those increased costs, the extraordinary costs, the overtime. But it doesn’t really address the 

underlying issue of, one, what is going to happen with reimbursement? So should we be looking at these differently? 

But on the current situation is—and again, I got this yesterday 

when we were talking about what is being considered as income to 

determine what is considered a surplus versus a deficit in the operating budget, and I was told they were looking at FEMA assistance 

and how that was being calculated. And so Tony Russell and I immediately said, A, it didn’t sound right, and B, we need to go back 

and go, what are we actually using for determining what is the revenue stream and level of income. 

Senator LANDRIEU. But I just want to be clear for this record on 

this question, because this is just critical to our success moving forward, that what you just testified to, what I heard was that in 

FEMA’s mind, you are clear that these officials could borrow money 

from you for overtime, etc, etc. But I continue to remind you and 

other Federal officials that overtime is important, but in a catastrophe, regular time is very important because police officers have 

to be paid for regular time before they can actually be present to 

work overtime. 

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43 

So I keep pressing for an adequate response. Now, we know that 

you are leaning forward on this. I can hear it in your voice and I 

hear it in the testimony. But I want to be clear that we are going 

to leave here committed to figuring this out, because if my staff 

will give me the number, we have outstanding debt of, what is it, 

over a billion? It is over $800 million that the State of Louisiana, 

our elected officials collectively owe, and we have that in the record 

as to—and each one of them sort of have a—well, you have a very 

good idea of how much it is, I am sure. But I will say it is between 

$800 million and $1 billion. 

Now, for communities that are struggling to build schools, fire 

stations, sidewalks, sewer systems, levees, transportation, support 

their neighborhood groups, finding this $800 million or $1 billion 

is going to be very difficult even for our wealthiest parishes. So we 

have to really figure this out, and that would basically be my question. Do you have any additional comment, and then I am going to 

pass it on to my colleagues. 

Mr. FUGATE. Madam Chairman, I think you got it exactly right. 

I think the original intention prior to Hurricane Katrina was the 

Community Disaster Loan Program could provide a loan until the 

FEMA reimbursement process kicked in. It never addressed the 

underlying issue of what happens if you had the extraordinary cost 

plus a tax base which is devastated so your baseline costs aren’t 

being covered, and that was something I don’t think that was ever 

anticipated in the Community Disaster Loan Program, and as we 

did the Special Community Disaster Loan Program, we were trying 

to address. 

So I think this is something, again, to look at it, is when should 

we look at this as a grant that we don’t really expect—how do you 

make up this revenue stream as you are trying to rebuild a tax 

base and pay back a loan? I know that is the mechanism we use. 

So maybe the question is, the tool we use, we need to find a different tool. But we have to take the tool we have now and figure 

out what it is going to take to make sure we continue communities 

being able to continue their operations, that these loans—so we can 

deal with two issues, the forgiveness but also the loans themselves 

affecting bond rating as communities try to move forward. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Well, I would hope, and I would turn it over 

to the Congressman—I know the Mayor and others have suggestions—I would hope that you would take some time very soon to 

sit down face-to-face with these elected officials, because you won’t 

find more experienced elected officials anywhere in the country except for the ones along the Gulf Coast that have taken out these 

loans, trying to figure out how to repay it, why it didn’t work, 

maybe it should be grants, than these folks, and I hope that you 

will do that. Congressman Melancon. 

Mr. MELANCON. Thank you, Senator Landrieu. 

Mr. Fugate, if you would, let me just follow up on that. One of 

the things that I have found and I think most of the officials found 

after Hurricane Katrina was that Stafford was totally inadequate 

for the catastrophic event we experienced. It is OK if you have 

levee breaks up north in Iowa and a regular hurricane, whatever 

that is these days. But if you could help us as members of Congress, you and Tony, because I know you have been through the 

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experiences before, is I think we need assistance in trying to—and 

these gentlemen and their offices can help us, also—to look at a reauthorization or reforming so that there is a catastrophic event 

clause that triggers in and how we trigger it in, that the norm, the 

Stafford, doesn’t become the norm for a major catastrophic event 

and would maybe give more leeway to the people that run the 

agency going into the future. Hopefully, you will never have to experience it, but we thank you for what you and Tony have done. 

It has been 100 percent better. 

Mr. FUGATE. Well, sir, I think one of the things we would like 

to continue to pursue, and we are going to use the existing authorities we have and working with Mayor Landrieu, is we oftentimes 

would look at a project by project, building by building type approach instead of stepping back and saying, instead of doing a 

project as a fire station, let us look at fire service or, as the Mayor 

says, public safety as a project, and again, use some of the tools 

we used to recover the school district, and that, I think, is a more 

effective, faster way. When you have large system impacts, look at 

the system, not the individual buildings in trying to do the grant 

process. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Amen. Congressman Scalise. 

Mr. SCALISE. Thank you, Senator. I have two questions, and I 

will ask the questions if that is OK, Senator, and then let the panel 

address it. 

First, on the Category 5 flood protection, General Van Antwerp, 

under one of the things that we have been trying to push as a delegation is to get a real commitment on Category 5 flood protection, 

which is something we don’t have right now. One of the things, and 

I wasn’t here initially after Hurricane Katrina in the Congressional 

delegation, but language that was passed by our delegation back 

then seemed it was the intent of the delegation to get specific recommendations from the Corps on specific projects to bring us to, 

not, as Mayor Landrieu talked about, not hundred-year flood protection, but true Category 5 flood protection, which is a much 

stronger level that we all want to achieve. But the recommendations that came down for the Corps, it wasn’t specific recommendations. It was more of a spreadsheet with options that were given 

to the State and then asking the State to come back and identify 

those. 

And so if you can address kind of that difference between what 

the Congressional intent seemed to be that the Congressional delegation wanted to have the Corps give specific recommendations, as 

has always been done in the past and is typically the process we 

need to go and then seek the authorization and funding versus 

what was sent down. 

And then if I can ask Parish President Davis to touch again on 

the CDL issue, because I know you have come down more than one 

time, come to Washington, working with me and others to try to 

get clear definitions, and as the definitions did come out and the 

rules on the CDL process, and recently the unfortunate rejection, 

not only in your parish but in other parishes, the rejection of forgiveness of those loans where in some places you had forgiveness 

and some you didn’t get forgiveness, how we can get some better 

dialogue with the FEMA Administrator Fugate to get, as you menH605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER

45 

tioned, in that second round, if there hopefully will be a second 

round of rules to try to get over that hump for those communities 

that are experiencing problems today, but just because of the 

guidelines that seem to be in place, it didn’t necessarily take into 

account the issues that they had, so they didn’t get the same forgiveness as somebody else did even though they both were in that 

line of fire. So if I could—— 

Senator LANDRIEU. Excellent question. If you all would, limit 

your response to 2 minutes each so we can get Congressman Cao 

in. 

General VAN ANTWERP. Your question is a great one. When we 

did the LACPR report, what we essentially were looking at in the 

different planning units what are the alternatives. That is what we 

did first. And then which ones were, in our opinion, the best alternatives, but there are tradeoffs. For instance, in St. Bernard Parish 

where we built the T-walls, if you would build a conventional levee 

there, the base would have been 900 feet and you would have needed more property. It would have impacted wetlands. So there are 

different effects of each of these. 

The standard in the United States right now is the 100-year 

level. We have looked at the system in the Netherlands and there 

are alternatives similar to that system, but they can be very, very 

expensive and they can impact the environment. So that is where 

there are tradeoffs. We are meeting with the State right now to try 

and pick the best alternatives in each of those planning units, in 

each of the regions, if you will. 

We kind of mix Category 5 and the 100-year, because Category 

5 isn’t necessarily a 500-year event. Hurricane Katrina, for instance, had a very large surge which was much greater than its 

category. We can give more information on what we hope to get out 

of the long-range plan, but it is going to take working with the 

State to do that and to determine what alternatives that the people 

want and the subsequent tradeoffs. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you. President Davis. 

Mr. DAVIS. Yes. I think, to answer the Congressman directly, 

yesterday, we had a meeting with all of our agencies, be it fire, municipalities, hospitals. I think the problem is how they determined 

the surplus or the income of a local government authority. Like, we 

have a 2-cent sales tax, and in that discussion, it is highly dedicated. It can’t be used for other expenditures. It can’t be used for 

personnel. But they are using some of those dollars in the overall 

picture, which then they came back to us and said we had a surplus of $125 million. But that is not correct. It is not the accounting process that we use. 

And again, I am—it is great that I have this opportunity while 

he is here, because I have to tell you, the people on the ground 

have been very forceful and have—I had one mayor just sign off 

the other day. She just gave up and signed the thing. She says, ‘‘I 

am not worried about it because when the first payment comes 

due, I am going to have a deficit so I can’t pay it.’’ I said, ‘‘But 

Mayor, I don’t think you understand. They can take other assets,’’ 

and I have seen them do that. We had them do that with the Natural Resources Conservation Service (NRCS) on us because of the 

20 percent match. When we didn’t make the payment, they took 

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other Federal funds from other agencies and took our money. So 

this is a serious issue and I would look forward to meeting with 

them in reference to how the surpluses or how the accounting is 

done. 

Senator LANDRIEU. OK. Thank you. 

Mr. SCALISE. And if Administrator Fugate can help us with that, 

to get that, hopefully the differences in accounting practices between what the parishes actually experience versus what the 

FEMA folks on the ground looked at. 

Mr. FUGATE. And I am very familiar, having come from local government, where you have a taxing authority that is currently going 

to a certain bond or a certain activity and part of that enabling legislation is it can’t be used other places. So again, that is one. Yesterday, we were hearing what was being counted, and we want to 

go back and make sure that we are looking at what the actual revenue that should be going against a loan and not looking at other 

types of revenue that would not necessarily be supporting that repayment. 

Senator LANDRIEU. That is an excellent—we will take that testimony and we will take that as a yes, we will work on it. Thank 

you. Congressman Cao. 

Mr. CAO. Thank you, Senator, and my two questions will be to 

General Van Antwerp. 

One, based on my observation of the BP oil spill, it seems to me 

that the Army Corps still has this level of bureaucracy that prevents the Army Corps to make very quick decisions, which is something that we needed in the situation of the oil spill. My question 

to you, the first question is, have you looked at that problem and 

what are the future steps that you will take to reduce this bureaucracy and to enable the Army Corps to make quicker decisions? 

My second question is, how are you working with Secretary 

Mavis to look at the issue of a long-term environmental redevelopment? 

Senator LANDRIEU. And General, if you will take 2 minutes to 

answer that, and then I am going to have the Mayor give closing 

remarks and we are going to end this panel. 

General VAN ANTWERP. Regarding the oil spill, our primary mission was the evaluation of emergency permits under our regulatory 

authority. We received 57 permits, and we can tell you exactly 

when we received them and how it took to reach decisions. We used 

emergency procedures. Many of the permit requests had no science 

or engineering behind them, so we had to model them to determine 

effects. As it turned out, a lot of them would have done more damage had we permitted what was requested. So we have to get that 

part right. 

We had a strong urge, to let us do something and do it now. But 

you have to also do the right thing. We will continue to look at our 

emergency procedures. A lot of those 57 permits that were requested were given on the same day that they were requested. It 

is something we do need to work more on, but we also want to get 

the science and engineering right. 

On the other part, we are definitely working with Secretary 

Mavis on the long-term environmental impacts, the marshlands, 

the wetlands, and what could be done. We are also looking at that 

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as part of the long-range master plan for this area and what is the 

mitigation and how do we make sure that we are building better 

and building better environmentally in this wonderful ecosystem. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you. 

Mr. Mayor, any closing remarks? 

Mr. LANDRIEU. Thank you so much, Madam Chairman and Members of the Subcommittee, and, of course, my fellow panel members. I would just say this. We obviously have made great progress, 

but we have a very, very long way to go and we have some challenges, and the broadest challenge in my opinion is that the U.S. 

Government is not adequately prepared structurally to respond to 

a catastrophic event. That is the big message. I think everybody 

here is working as hard as they can within the guidelines that 

exist. Obviously, being more responsive, being available, giving 

quick answers is critically important. Trying to lean towards yes is 

critically important, and Tony and those guys have done a great 

job. 

But my general observation in the policy discussion that you 

have, should Stafford be amended, should it not be, I don’t know 

the answer to that question. I can say this to you, though, that this 

country right now organizationally is not set up to recover from a 

catastrophic event. FEMA is not a recovery organization. They are 

not a rebuilding organization. They were designed to get there 

quick and to respond. 

But as you can see from catastrophic events that we have had, 

we need something bigger and more robust, something more flexible, something that takes into consideration all of the different permutations that we have learned through the agony that we have 

all been through, and that is the big take-away lesson for us. 

Finally, I would say this. We continue to want to work very, very 

closely. There is a disconnect sometimes between now the efficacy 

with which the folks in Washington are working and what we are 

hearing on the ground from the folks. We saw that during the BP 

oil spill. We saw it with the Coast Guard. We see it all the time, 

and we have to tighten that up a little bit. I feel very comfortable 

that we have a lot of really great hands on deck. We have a lot of 

passion. We are now once again the eye of the Nation and we 

should take this opportunity to help learn from them and also be 

able to ask the Nation to learn from the travails that we have gone 

through. 

But thank you so much for your attention and thank you all for 

your advocacy on behalf of the city and the State of Louisiana. 

Senator LANDRIEU. Thank you all very much, and the meeting is 

going to be adjourned. There will be a press availability in front of 

the school, downstairs, in 5 minutes. It will last only 10 minutes. 

There will be questions only from the press, no statements, and 

anyone is invited to participate. 

Thank you all very much. Hearing adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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63829.099
148 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


63829.100
149 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


63829.101
150 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


63829.102
151 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


63829.103
152 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


63829.104
153 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


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154 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


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155 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


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156 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


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157 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


63829.109
158 

Æ 

H605-41331-79W7 with DISTILLER


63829.110