Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

August 6, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC 

BACKGROUND AND WELCOMING REMARKS 

This is the record of the second meeting of the Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee of the 

FAAC, a Federal advisory committee formed pursuant to and subject to the requirements of the 

Federal Advisory Committee Act (FACA). 

Ms. Patricia Friend, Subcommittee Chair, AFA-CWA, called the meeting to order at 1:03 p.m. 

She welcomed the subcommittee members and members of the public in attendance. Ms. Friend then 

asked each of the subcommittee members to introduce themselves. 

Ms. Friend began the meeting by reviewing documents related to the agenda, which included— 

• The Goodrich science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) proposal; 

• Reports on the consensus topics; 

• Reports on airport labor workforces; and 

• Papers on the impact of the Next Generation Air Transportation System (NextGen) on— 

o The workforce from the National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA), 

o Professional Aviation Safety Specialists (PASS), and 

o Dispatchers from the TWU. 

Ms. Friend explained TWU retracted their full document on the dignity of work culture, but the 

one-page executive summary is still available. 

Ms. Friend introduced Ms. Terri Williams, FAA, the DFO for the meeting, and asked her to summarize 

FACA requirements. Ms. Williams noted the meeting is conducted under FACA and outlined her 

responsibilities as DFO, including maintaining adherence to the agenda, keeping accurate minutes, and 

adjourning the meeting if necessary. 

Ms. Williams noted meetings of the subcommittee are accessible to the public and stated interested 

people have the opportunity to submit comments before each meeting either by email at faac@dot.gov 

or by submission to the regulatory docket at www.regulations.gov. She added the minutes of each 

meeting will be made available both in the regulatory docket and on the FAAC Web site at 

http://www.dot.gov/faac. 

Ms. Williams read the formal statement required under FACA. She noted although the meeting was 

open to the public and members of the public were attending the meeting, participation in the meeting 

was limited to subcommittee members, their alternates, and Federal officials. She added that only 

subcommittee members and their alternates were entitled to vote on subcommittee business. 

Ms. Williams then turned the meeting back over to Ms. Friend to open substantive discussion. 
Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

Augusts, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC 

DISCUSSION 

Ms. Friend returned to the list of reports and stated that during this meeting, topic experts needed to be 

briefed for their presentations at the FAAC meeting on August 25, 2010. She added each topic expert 

will be limited to a 20-minute presentation, with 10 minutes for a question-and-answer period. As the 

first topic expert, Ms. Cynthia Egnotovich, Goodrich, recommended Ms. Jennifer McNelly, 

National Association of Manufacturers. Along with the recommendation, Ms. Egnotovich submitted a 

one-page summary of Goodrich's STEM proposal. Ms. Egnotovich noted the subcommittee must be 

comfortable with the list of recommendations. Furthermore, she noted the recommendation list should 

be concise, and the Secretary of Transportation should be able to act on the items. Ms. Egnotovich 

welcomed comments and offered to reformulate recommendations if necessary. 

Ms. Friend opened discussion about the STEM recommendations (refer to appendix A to this record of 

meeting, Future of Aviation Advisory Committee, Subcommittee on Labor/Workforce Issues), which 

Ms. Friend acknowledged seemed doable. However, she noted there are other subcommittee members 

with a specific interest in STEM. If necessary, Ms. Friend stated she is willing to form a 

working group within the subcommittee to finalize the recommendations. 

Ms. Ana McAhron-Schulz, ALPA, discussed the allocation of a required budget to implement the 

recommendations. She directed all comments on the subject to Ms. Christa Fornarotto, DOT. 

Ms. McAhron-Schulz recognized that costs may be incurred with most of the recommendations and she 

expressed concern about DOT approval. 

Ms. Fornarotto suggested the subcommittee make its recommendations, and Congress will make 

authorizations for a budget, if necessary. She stated the DOT is aware of the potential cost, but it is 

dependent upon the actual expenditure and the circumstances. Additionally, Ms. Fornarotto 

recommended the subcommittee narrow its nine recommendations or combine several points into 

broader categories. 

STEM Education 

To help focus these recommendations, Ms. Fornarotto suggested Mr. David Barger, JetBlue, should 

offer information regarding JetBlue's outreach to the New York City school system and the 

Port Authority of New York. Ms. Fornarotto stated she believes their educational outreach is a 

learning tool and may help the subcommittee focus its recommendations. 

Mr. Barger stated JetBlue focuses mainly on the New York City school system, while the 

Port Authority of New York, under the direction of Ms. Susan Baer, focuses more on the college level. 

Mr. Barger discussed the Vaughn College of Aeronautics and Technology and the 

Aviation High School, two schools with which the port authority works. He stated both institutions are 

geared toward creating airframe & powerplant graduates who can work for airports. He added the 

focus of both JetBlue and the port authority is to have a large presence in the classroom to entice 

students to work at airports. 
Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

August 6, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC '•&' • 

Mr. Barger stated on behalf of the air carriers that there are strong recruiting networks in the major 

aviation universities, including the University of North Dakota, Purdue University, and 

Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. This helps students enter careers in flightcrews, technical 

operations, and management positions upon graduation. He added the pipelines must stay open and 

strong to maintain this flow of educated individuals into the aviation community. 

Ms. Egnotovich agreed with Mr. Barger and added the manufacturing industry needs to be included in 

this pipeline. Ms. McAhron-Schulz stated ALPA is working in a similar manner with direct outreach 

to aviation universities. She stated ALPA is furthering their efforts by recruiting from technical 

high schools as well. 

Mr. John Donnelly, TWU, expressed an interest in topic 2on the recommendation list of appendix A to 

this record of meeting, which incorporates core manufacturing business concepts and principles in the 

STEM educational process. He stated this was a good tie in with culture and dignity issues, and he 

wanted to see continuous improvement and lean manufacturing in the air carrier industry. 

Mr. Donnelly added there is a need to dovetail these issues with business improvement initiatives to 

compete in the global marketplace. He stated topic 2 is necessary for this. 

Ms. Friend asked if the Secretary of Transportation or the stakeholders (business and labor) could 

accomplish topic 2. Ms. Friend referenced American Airlines in Tulsa, Oklahoma, as a good example. 

Mr. Donnelly clarified that American Airlines successfully combined the workforce with management 

principles there. He added there must be a conversation between labor and management, and it must be 

about driving the business case. In using American Airlines as an example, Mr. Donnelly recounted 

that the MD-80 pulse line reduced turn times from 24 to 14 days, and management was able to reduce 

the head count by 50 percent. He added the plant was also able to reduce turn times on the Boeing 777 

landing gear and increased production from 200 legs per year to 300 legs per year. Mr. Donnelly stated 

at the plant in Tulsa, Oklahoma, it is difficult to discern who is in management and who is in labor, 

because they are all on the same team. He noted this is a compelling model and it can help the 

subcommittee negotiate the workforce issue. 

Ms. Egnotovich agreed that to achieve lean, continuous improvement, the entire team needs to work 

together to achieve a common goal. However, the issue with topic 2 stresses the educational need to 

teach students about lean management and operational excellence. He noted these subjects must be 

included in the STEM curriculum if the industry expects to recruit the best and brightest. 

Ms. Egnotovich stated in her experience, universities today give little guidance in these subjects. 

Mr. Donnelly acknowledged Ms. Egnotovich's thoughts and emphasized the process of improvement 

and teaming must go together. She added that education should include subjects on collaboration and 

teamwork to help drive the workforce in a positive direction with regard to culture and dignity. 

Ms. Friend followed this discussion by asking if topics 2 and 3 in appendix A to this record of meeting 

should be combined. Ms. Egnotovich agreed with the suggestion and stated topic 3 also can include 

several other ideas. Subcommittee members agreed that creating a DOT STEM advisory council 
Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

August 6, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC 

(topic 3) is a productive idea. The Subcommittee also agreed it could incorporate several ideas for the 

advisory council to work on. 

Ms. Fornarotto asked if the DOT STEM advisory council will be comprised only of DOT staff or if the 

council will include outside stakeholders as well. Ms. Friend asked for input from the subcommittee, 

and Ms. Egnotovich stated she preferred including members outside of the DOT. Mr. Barger asked if 

these ideas line up with the Secretary of Education's views. Ms. Fornarotto stated she is still 

contemplating that, but she feels the council would be most effective with interagency members, 

including members from the White House and Departments of Education, Energy, and Labor. 

The Interagency Aerospace Revitalization Task Force 

Ms. Friend directed the subcommittee to evaluate topic 7 in appendix A to this record of meeting 

regarding the Interagency Aerospace Revitalization Task Force and asked if it can be refashioned to 

serve multiple purposes. Ms. Egnotovich provided summary information on this task force. She stated 

it was put into law in 2006 by President Bush and led by the Assistant Secretary of Labor. She added it 

was formed to improve the aerospace industry's access to a scientifically and technologically trained 

workforce. Ms. Egnotovich noted the task force issued a report in January 2008 but has not had much 

activity since then. She stated its purpose is very similar to STEM objectives but the project has lost 

momentum. 

According to Mr. Barger, there is interest in supporting topic 7. He stated at its core, businesses have 

to appeal to students and students must take an interest in the aviation industry; thus, the subcommittee 

must support the task force. Ms. Friend stated the members of the subcommittee must be willing to 

work together to refine the information about the task force. She noted this includes determining who 

should be on the task force, what will happen with it, and what topics it will address. 

Mr. Robert Lekites, UPS, stated he believes having an educated workforce is a critical challenge. He 

noted the educational background sets the foundation for employees to have a team focus and operate 

as a collaborative workforce. Mr. Lekites expressed concern about the aging workforce and that the 

pipeline for a replacement workforce is being shut off. He stated in his opinion, the foreign 

workstations are doing a more effective job in developing employees through education and 

collaboration. He added the question is what can be done from an industry perspective. Mr. Lekites 

noted the end result must be an educated workforce. 

Ms. Friend summarized the discussion by stating the subcommittee supports this topic. She noted all 

sectors of the aviation industry would benefit from work done in this area. In her experience, Goodrich 

and ALPA have the most expertise in creating proposals that would benefit everyone. Ms. Egnotovich 

stated she was willing to work with Ms. McAhron-Schulz to find a more concise way to present this 

information. Ms. Egnotovich added Ms. McNelly will add valuable information and help increase 

momentum. 
Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

August 6, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC 

Challenges Facing Airport Recruitment 

Ms. McAhron-Schulz commented on the need to attract the best and brightest to the industry and 

recognized this concept is applicable to all aspects of the aviation industry, including airports. She 

requested that Ms. Thella Bowens, San Diego County Regional Airport Authority, discuss issues facing 

airports. Ms. Bowens offered her input and noted the needs at airports differ slightly from the rest of 

the industry, in that the needs are not all technical. Ms. McAhron-Schulz, Ms. Egnotovich, and 

Ms. Bowens agreed to work together to refine this category and make it applicable for jobs across the 

aviation industry. Ms. Friend recommended they wait to hear the presentation Ms. McNelly will give 

at the August 25, 2010, FAAC meeting. 

Ms. Friend invited Ms. Bowens to describe the issues airports currently face. Ms. Bowens explained 

airports operate under some regulations that make it difficult for airports to get involved in outreach 

efforts at universities and within the community to help identify workforce issues. She stated the 

current regulatory issues do not allow airports to use resources for anything not directly related to the 

airport. Ms. Bowens stated this issue could be fixed relatively easily if airports could allocate resources 

for developing long-term workforces. She added airports also need to better support the educational 

programs already in place to allow graduates to work at airports. In addition, Ms. Bowens recognized 

the lack of a formalized system for placing interns at airports. She observed that while San Diego 

International Airport has an internship program, it would be helpful to have other airports in a network 

to effectively place students in internship roles. She stated it needs to be determined which airports 

have opportunities available and can assist in the career development of students. 

Ms. Fornarotto commented on the possibility of changing the regulations to meet the needs of the 

airports. She stated it is contingent upon which regulations need changing. She noted the DOT is 

willing to discuss this and determine if it is possible to make adjustments. Ms. Bowens offered to put 

information together for the full FAAC, because none of the other subcommittees have jurisdiction on 

this subject. 

International Labor Standards 

Ms. Friend referred to a discussion held at the first Labor and World-class Workforce subcommittee 

meeting about international labor standards. She noted there was a lack of specific information 

regarding this topic. Ms. Friend stated she and the TWU are proposing to bring in a topic expert from 

the strategic research staff at TWU to discuss using international labor standards as a stabilizing force 

to level the playing field. 

Mr. Donnelly stated the next topic expert will be Mr. K. Dean Hubbard, Jr., TWU, and he provided 

Mr. Hubbard's qualifications. Mr. Donnelly stated Mr. Hubbard is going to offer his expertise on 

international labor standards, rather than on organized labor. The subcommittee members did not 

object to this suggestion. 
Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

August 6, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC 

The Impact of NextGen on the Workforce 

Ms. Friend then stated she spoke with representatives from NATCA and PASS about how NextGen 

will affect the workers they represent. She also spoke with dispatchers from air carriers represented by 

TWU. She noted although each group has specific issues, they all have one underlying concern: they 

do not feel the workforce is involved in the development and implementation of NextGen. She stated 

the best solution is to create a structure that lets NATCA and PASS members give meaningful input. 

Ms. Friend added she plans to work with TWU to make a specific proposal. She also suggested 

holding a roundtable discussion, independent of the FAA and the DOT, that includes the workers 

affected by NextGen. She stated the goal would be to bring the workers in for a more formalized 

discussion. 

Mr. Donnelly agreed with Ms. Friend but stated he feels the current attempts to involve workers are 

met by stonewalls. He noted this type of effort seems to be difficult to start and there has been little 

progress. Mr. Lekites replied that NextGen is a work in progress. He added the development process 

is a learning experience. He requested clarification on the issue as it relates to employees involved 

with NextGen. 

Ms. Friend stated she had spoken to air traffic controllers and they have outstanding questions, such as 

how the staffing situation will change, what the training process will involve, and when it will begin. 

She added the workforce needs answers to these questions, or at least needs to be involved in the 

discussions. In addition, Ms. Friend stated some preliminary tests are being conducted and the 

controllers are not being included. She observed the tests are conducted by supervisors, who are not 

typically exposed to the day-to-day operations controllers experience. Mr. Donnelly disagreed and 

stated in his experience, the local tower employees were conducting the tests. 

Ms. Fornarotto offered to work with the FAA and TWU on the communication issue. Ms. Friend 

suggested Ms. Fornarotto also talk to NATCA and PASS about the issue to keep the lines of 

communication open. 

Ms. McAhron-Schulz and Ms. Fornarotto stated there will be a NextGen presentation by 

Ms. Victoria Cox, FAA, at the full committee meeting on August 25, 2010. They noted this 

presentation will last for an hour and will address the concerns of each subcommittee. 

The subcommittee agreed on the importance of keeping this initiative in the list of recommendations. 

They determined a more refined recommendation will be made after Ms. Cox's presentation. 

Collective Bargaining 

Ms. Friend moved the conversation to the recommendation about the prolonged collective bargaining 

process under the Railway Labor Act of 1926 (RLA), its effects on the labor-management relationship, 

and what can be done to improve it. Ms. Friend stated she approached the National Mediation Board 

(NMB) to solicit a presentation on its role in ensuring timely collective bargaining under the RLA 

and how it can contribute to a more satisfied workforce. She stated Mr. Harry Hoglander and 

Ms. Linda Puchala, NMB, agreed to present at the August 25, 2010, FAAC meeting. Ms. Fornarotto 
Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

August 6, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC 

suggested the third member of the NMB, Ms. Elizabeth Dougherty, should also participate in the 

presentation on August 25, 2010. Ms. Fornarotto stated she has seen the presentation and noted it is 

half an hour long. She noted an adjustment may be made to accommodate the extra 10 minutes needed 

for this presentation. 

Ms. McAhron-Schulz suggested the NMB brief the FAAC on the negotiations environment and how its 

efforts to streamline the process will change the process in the future. She stated it would be 

productive if the NMB offered its perspective on the challenges and opportunities collective bargaining 

faces with regard to the issues TWU raised. Ms. Friend stated she will brief the NMB and send the 

board the full TWU version so the members are prepared. 

Mr. Lekites noted in his experience, the time spent in negotiations far outweighs the time spent out of 

negotiations. He stated the subcommittee would benefit from a better understanding of the business 

model and the role of the employee. He added there is an opportunity for the NMB to discuss how to 

help organizations prepare for entering into negotiations. Mr. Lekites added it would also be valuable 

to discuss the issues that drive negotiations into a prolonged state. 

Mr. Lekites recommended the subcommittee hear from a mediator to help understand the other side of 

the situation. He suggested former NMB member Mr. Joshua Javits, Dispute Resolution Services, for 

this role. Mr. Lekites stated Mr. Javits will be able to teach them how to get better results in a more 

timely fashion and with less impact on the business, regardless of which side of the table you are on. 

He added Mr. Javits is an arbitrative mediator for labor management, employment, pension, contract, 

personal injury, and other disputes. Mr. Lekites also noted Mr. Javits is an attorney with extensive 

training in arbitration. He stated Mr. Javits will be able to offer a balanced guide and neutral insight 

into how companies, unions, and work groups work together to solve problems. 

Ms. Friend stated there will not be time to have this discussion at the full committee meeting on 

August 25, 2010. Instead she offered to invite Mr. Javits to give his presentation at the next 

subcommittee meeting. 

Ms. Friend took a moment to confirm she was tasked with making a recommendation to the NMB 

regarding the three presenters, confirming the three topic experts for the FAAC, and finalizing the three 

recommendations. She then invited subcommittee members to make additional suggestions. 

Critical Issues 

Ms. McAhron-Schulz referred to the original submission about creating job security for employees. 

She suggested bankruptcy legislation reforms. She stated her belief that bankruptcy is not a tool for 

eliminating collective bargaining agreements or overreducing positions, and bankruptcy courts should 

take job security, healthcare, benefits, and employee morale into consideration. 

Mr. Barger stated this topic is critical for the subcommittee, but it may be too big to act on in the 

allotted time. Along with bankruptcy reform, he offered the topics of foreign ownership, code-sharing, 

and outsourcing models. 
Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

August 6, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC 

Ms. Friend agreed with Mr. Barger and recognized the subcommittee is back to the critical issues that 

face the aviation industry. She asked the subcommittee members whether they should tackle these 

issues. She stated with regard to the bankruptcy issue, there is a pending piece of legislation that most 

likely will not be passed. Ms. Friend posed a question to Ms. McAhron-Schulz about drafting a 

proposal for DOT to assist with this. Ms. McAhron-Schulz replied that, more than anything, ALPA is 

looking for support for this legislation. 

Ms. Friend reminded the subcommittee of the three issues on the table for further discussion: 

bankruptcy reform, job outsourcing, and foreign ownership. She noted all three pertain to job security. 

Ms. McAhron-Schulz noted the Subcommittee on Competitiveness and Viability decided to take the 

issue of foreign ownership off the table because it is not likely to reach a consensus on that topic. 

With regard to job outsourcing, Mr. Donnelly stated TWU is proactive in using foreign and domestic 

repair stations. He noted there is often a race to the bottom with regard to wages, and the use of 

outsourcing became prevalent over the past several years because of the bankruptcy issue. As a 

potential solution, he suggested companies take a look at what can be done internally before looking 

externally. 

Mr. Barger disagreed with Mr. Donnelly's assertions and stated it depends on the lens that one looks 

through. Mr. Barger added he does not feel JetBlue looks at the situation as a race to the bottom; rather 

it is a new model within the industry that is fundamentally broken. He stated although the 

recommendations put forth are important, he does not feel the items identified are the heart of the issue. 

Ms. Friend encouraged Mr. Barger to share his opinions and expressed her appreciation in being able to 

discuss controversial issues. She agreed with Mr. Barger in his assessment that the industry is 

fundamentally broken. Ms. Friend explained she thinks the business model is flawed and asked 

Mr. Barger for an explanation as to why he thinks the industry is broken. 

Mr. Barger stated an industry that will not cover its cost of capital will not attract capital. He expressed 

concern that foreign operators are going to become more powerful than flag carriers if the industry is 

unable to attract capital. He added without capital, the industry will remain fundamentally broken. 

Ms. Friend asked why the industry is unable to cover the cost of capital and attract new capital. 

Mr. Barger suggested it may be an issue of capacity; either there is too much or it is the wrong type. 

He noted within the industry, there is plenty of room for different models, and those models must be 

competitive with foreign models. Mr. Barger emphasized an investor would not invest in air carriers if 

he has the option of investing in an industry like technology. With regard to covering the cost of 

capital, he stated JetBlue has turned to foreign investors, namely Lufthansa, which has proven to be 

successful. He also noted JetBlue has outsourced some of its work, not because of cost, but because of 

quality. 

Mr. Donnelly stressed that his position is not of union versus non union; it is a matter of creating 

well-paying jobs. He expressed interest in a third option. Mr. Donnelly clarified there is a binary 

thought process that compares legacy air carriers and air carriers like JetBlue, but there is another way 
Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

Augusts, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC 

of thinking. Mr. Barger agreed there is another way of thinking and it is possible to merge the new and 

the old. Mr. Donnelly provided the example of American Airlines in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in which 

everyone is on the same team. He stated the efforts made there should be the example for a 

third option. 

Ms. Friend stated everything JetBlue does, including outsourcing, is within the current regulations and 

legal guidelines. She asked if there are any ideas that can be brought to the Secretary of Transportation 

to help air carriers innovate more. 

Mr. Barger expressed his support for foreign ownership and stated he disagreed with the current cap at 

25 percent. He observed that the Lufthansa investment has allowed JetBlue to add jobs and refrain 

from issuing pay cuts, and it has helped JetBlue's business model. Mr. Barger stressed there is no right 

or wrong decision with regard to foreign ownership, provided it can improve the business. 

Ms. Bowens suggested the subcommittee not focus on the solutions to difficult problems. Rather, she 

stated the subcommittee could identify the tough issues that face the aviation industry and present them 

to the Secretary of Transportation as a recommendation for future committees. She agreed there are 

tough issues on the table, and these issues cannot be solved in 8 months. However, she stressed these 

issues need to be recognized because the aviation industry cannot become a sustainable industry as 

long as these issues remain. Ms. McAhron-Schulz and Ms. Fornarotto agreed on this resolution. 

Ms. McAhron-Schulz agreed that the subcommittee has been challenged with identifying the elements 

that will encourage successful business models. She asked if the subcommittee should tackle the 

bankruptcy issue, or if it should be delegated to the Subcommittee on Financing. 

Ms. Friend emphasized that better protection for workers in a bankruptcy situation falls directly under 

the scope of the Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee, but the continual use of bankruptcy 

for restructuring may fall under the scope of the Subcommittee on Competitiveness and Viability. 

Ms. Fornarotto confirmed the other subcommittees are not focusing on the bankruptcy issue. 

Ms. Friend thanked the subcommittee members for bringing these topics to the table. She stated the 

topics of job outsourcing, bankruptcy, and foreign ownership are all issues that keep the aviation 

industry unstable and play a contributing role in preventing qualified employees from entering the 

field. She asked the subcommittee for any additional ideas. 

Mr. Barger suggested the subcommittee discuss the RLA and whether it is still effective for the 

industry over 70 years after it was established. Ms. Friend noted the RLA does prolong the collective 

bargaining process. She observed the RLA does not expire, but it is amendable, specifically to prevent 

the interruption of the flow of transportation. Ms. Friend stated in her opinion, there is no need to 

change it. Mr. Barger replied he is simply bringing ideas to the table for discussion and wondered if 

the RLA is helpful or harmful in bringing new talent to the industry. 

Ms. Friend stated there needs to be a labor act for the aviation industry, and the RLA covers both the 

air carrier and rail industries. She observed workers may want to be covered under the National Labor 
Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

August 6, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC 

Relations Act, but it does not apply to the transportation industry. Ms. Friend noted the RLA has been 

examined a number of times and she agreed it is acceptable to examine it again. 

Mr. Lekites stated the aviation industry is accustomed to the process of the RLA. He noted in order to 

improve this process, the timelines in contract negotiation need to be adjusted to accomplish goals 

before the amendable date. Mr. Donnelly added it is not the act itself that is an issue, but the 

application of it. He suggested these questions should be brought to the NMB to determine how the 

RLA is applied and implemented. 

Ms. Friend stated Mr. Javits will be able to offer more information on this topic. She agreed with 

Mr. Donnelly about the application of the RLA. She suggested further discussion of this topic take 

place after the presentations from the Mr. Javits and the NMB. 

Mr. Barger raised the topic of the Staggers Rail Act of 1980. He asked if there are lessons to be 

learned from this act because the rail industry continues to attract capital. The subcommittee members 

stated they are unaware of the Staggers Rail Act of 1980, and Mr. Barger offered to write a small 

description of it before the next subcommittee meeting. 

Mr. Barger raised fitness of new air carriers as another topic for discussion. He noted the prevalence of 

failure with new entrants is a deterrent to attracting new talent to the aviation industry. He added when 

an air carrier fails, the community and its employees are left behind. Ms. Friend agreed with this 

statement and suggested there should be a higher burden, because current standards are too low. 

Ms. McAhron-Schulz recommended the issue be addressed from the perspective of the public interest, 

because there is a clause in the DOT code that allows for creating a viable industry that is able to 

attract capital. 

The subcommittee agreed to write paragraph descriptions of the major topics for inclusion in the 

final presentation. These are the topics that must be addressed because they are harmful to attracting 

new talent to the aviation industry: 

• Job outsourcing: Mr. Donnelly and Mr. Barger 

• Bankruptcy reform using the ALPA definition: Ms. McAhron-Schulz 

• Foreign ownership: Ms. Friend and Mr. Lekites 

• Foreign repair stations: Mr. Lekites, Mr. Donnelly, and Ms. Egnotovich 

• Code-sharing and fees for departure: Mr. Barger and Ms. McAhron-Schulz 

• Fitness standards for new entrants: Mr. Barger and Ms. McAhron-Schulz 

CLOSING REMARKS AND ADMINISTRATIVE MATTERS 

Ms. Friend attended to several business matters. She noted the minutes for the July 8, 2010, meeting 

were approved. The subcommittee discussed the time and location for the next subcommittee meeting, 

and agreed to meet September 23, 2010, in New York City, New York. 
Future of Aviation Advisory Committee 

Labor and World-class Workforce Subcommittee 

Record of Meeting 

Augusts, 2010 

Communications Workers of America 

Washington, DC 

Ms. Friend confirmed the next two FAAC meetings will be in Chicago, Illinois, on August 25, 2010, 

and in Los Angeles, California, on October 20, 2010. She added the last subcommittee meeting will be 

in December 2010 in Washington, DC. The subcommittee tentatively agreed to another meeting on the 

afternoon of November 15, 2010, with a location to be determined. 

ADJOURNMENT 

Ms. Williams solicited a motion for adjournment. On motion, duly seconded and approved by the 

majority of the subcommittee members present, the meeting was adjourned. 

The meeting adjourned at 3:21 p.m. 

I hereby certify that, tcvtj^e best of my knowledge, the foregoing minutes are accurate and complete. 

Approved by: 

Ter/i Williams, Designated Federal Official 

Dated: r-^^ <^3 <£ # /O 

Ratified on: J^ p <= ^ 2^/0