Futur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo ran d World-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g August 6, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C BACKGROUN D AN D WELCOMIN G REMARK S Thi s i s th e recor do f

th e secon dmeetin g o f

th e Labo r

an dWorld-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e o f th e FAAC , aFedera l advisor y committe e forme dpursuan t t o an dsubjec t

t o th e requirement s o f

th e Federal Advisor y Committe e Ac t (FACA) . Ms . Patrici aFriend , Subcommitte e Chair , AFA-CWA , calle dth e meetin g t o orde r a t 1:03 p.m . Sh e welcome dth e subcommitte e member s an dmember s o f th e publi c i n attendance . Ms . Frien dthe n aske deac h o f

th e subcommitte e member s t o introduc e themselves . Ms . Frien dbega n th e meetin g b y reviewing document s relate dt o th e agenda , whic h included—

• Th e Goodric h science , technology , engineering , an dmat h (STEM ) proposal ;

• Report s o n th e consensus topics ;

• Report s o n airport

labo r workforces ; an d

• Paper s o n th e impac t

o f th e Nex t Generatio n Ai r

Transportatio n Syste m(NextGen ) on— o Th e workforc e fro mth e Nationa l Ai r Traffi c Controller s Associatio n (NATCA) , o Professiona l Aviatio n Safet y Specialist s (PASS) , an d o Dispatcher s fro mth e TWU . Ms . Frien dexplaine dTW U retracte dthei r full documen t

o n th e dignity o f

work culture , bu t

th e one-pag e executiv e summar y i s stil l available . Ms . Frien dintroduce dMs . Terri Williams , FAA , th e DF O for th e meeting , an daske dhe r t o summariz e FAC A requirements . Ms . William s note dth e meetin g i s conducte dunde r FAC A an doutline dhe r responsibilitie s a s DFO , includin g maintainin g adherenc e t o th e agenda , keepin g accurat e minutes , an d adjournin g th e meetin g i f necessary . Ms . William s note dmeeting s o f th e subcommitte e ar e accessibl e t o th e publi c an dstate dintereste d peopl e hav e th e opportunit y t o submi t comment s before eac h meetin g eithe r b y emai l a

t faac@dot.go v or b y submissio n t o th e regulator y docke t a t www.regulations.gov . Sh e adde dth e minute s o f eac h meetin g wil l b e mad e availabl e both i n th e regulatory docke t an do n th e FAA C We b sit e a t http://www.dot.gov/faac . Ms . William s rea dth e formal statemen t require dunde r

FACA . Sh e note dalthoug h th e meetin g wa s ope n t o th e publi c an dmember s o f th e publi c wer e attendin g th e meeting , participatio n i n th e meetin g wa s limite dt o subcommitte e members , thei r alternates , an dFedera l officials . Sh e adde dtha t onl y subcommitte e member s an dthei r alternate s wer e entitle dt o vot e o n subcommitte e business . Ms . William s the n turne dth e meetin g bac k ove r t o Ms . Frien dt o ope n substantiv e discussion .Futur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo r an d World-class Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g Augusts, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C DISCUSSIO N Ms . Frien dreturne dt o th e lis t o f report s an dstate dthat

durin g thi s meeting , topi c expert s neede dt o b e briefe dfor

thei r presentation s at

th e FAA C meetin g o n Augus t 25 , 2010 . Sh e adde deac h topi c expert wil l b e limite dt o a20-minut e presentation , with 1 0 minute s for aquestion-and-answe r

period . A s th e first topi c expert , Ms . Cynthi aEgnotovich , Goodrich , recommende dMs . Jennife r McNelly , Nationa l Associatio n o f

Manufacturers . Alon g with th e recommendation , Ms . Egnotovic h submitte da one-pag e summary o f

Goodrich' s STE M proposal . Ms . Egnotovic h note dth e subcommitte e mus t b e comfortabl e with th e lis t

o f recommendations . Furthermore , sh e note dth e recommendatio n lis t shoul d b e concise , an dth e Secretary o f Transportatio n shoul db e abl e t o ac t o n th e items . Ms . Egnotovic h welcome dcomment s an doffere dt o reformulat e recommendation s i f necessary . Ms . Frien dopene ddiscussio n abou t th e STE M recommendation s (refe r t o appendi x A t o thi s recor do f meeting , Futur e o f

Aviatio n Advisor y Committee , Subcommitte e o n Labor/Workforc e Issues) , whic h Ms . Frien dacknowledge dseeme ddoable . However , sh e note dther e ar e othe r subcommitte e member s with aspecifi c interes t

i n STEM . I f

necessary , Ms . Frien dstate dsh e i s willin g t o for ma workin g grou p withi n th e subcommitte e t o finaliz e th e recommendations . Ms . An aMcAhron-Schulz , ALPA , discusse dth e allocatio n o f arequire dbudge t

t o implemen t

th e recommendations . Sh e directe dal l comment s o n th e subjec t t o Ms . Christ aFornarotto , DOT . Ms . McAhron-Schul z recognize dtha t cost s ma y b e incurre dwith mos t o f th e recommendation s an dsh e expresse dconcern abou t

DO T approval . Ms . Fornarott o suggeste dth e subcommitte e mak e it s recommendations , an dCongres s wil l make authorization s fo

r abudget , i f

necessary . Sh e state dth e DO T i s awar e o f th e potential cost , bu t

it i s dependen t

upo n th e actual expenditur e an dth e circumstances . Additionally , Ms . Fornarott o recommende dth e subcommitte e narro w it s nin e recommendation s o r combin e severa l point s int o broade r categories . STE M Educatio n T o hel p focu s thes e recommendations , Ms . Fornarott o suggeste dMr . Davi dBarger , JetBlue , shoul d offe r informatio n regardin g JetBlue' s outreac h t o th e Ne w Yor k City schoo l syste man dth e Port Authorit y o f

Ne w York . Ms . Fornarott o state dsh e believe s thei r educationa l outreac h i s a learnin g too l an dmay hel p th e subcommitte e focu s it s recommendations . Mr . Barge r

state dJetBlu e focuse s mainl y o n th e New Yor k Cit y schoo l system , whil e th e Port Authorit y o f

Ne w York , unde r

th e directio n o f

Ms . Susan Baer , focuse s mor e o n th e colleg e level . Mr . Barge r

discusse dth e Vaugh n Colleg e o f Aeronautic s an dTechnolog y an dth e Aviatio n Hig h School , tw o school s wit h whic h th e port authority works . H e state dboth institution s ar e geare dtowar dcreatin g airfram e & powerplan t graduate s wh o ca n wor

k for airports . H e adde dth e focu s o f bot h JetBlu e an dth e por t

authorit y i s t o hav e alarg e presenc e i n th e classroo mt o entic e student s t o wor

k a t airports .Futur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo ran d World-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g August 6, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C '•&' • Mr . Barge r

state do n behal f

o f th e ai r carrier s that

ther e ar e stron g recruitin g network s i n th e majo r aviatio n universities , includin g th e University o f Nort h Dakota , Purdu e University , an d Embry-Riddl e Aeronautica l University . Thi s help s student s ente r career s i n flightcrews , technica l operations , an dmanagemen t position s upo n graduation . H e adde dth e pipeline s mus t sta y ope n an d stron g to maintai n thi s flo w o f educate dindividual s int o th e aviatio n community . Ms . Egnotovic h agree dwit h Mr . Barge r an dadde dth e manufacturin g industry need s t o b e include di n thi s pipeline . Ms . McAhron-Schul z state dALPA i s workin g i n asimilar manne r wit h direc t

outreac h t o aviatio n universities . Sh e state dALP A i s furtherin g thei r effort s b y recruitin g fro mtechnica l hig h school s a s well . Mr . Joh n Donnelly , TWU , expresse dan interes t i n topi c 2o n th e recommendatio n lis t o f appendi x A t o thi s recor do f

meeting , whic h incorporate s cor e manufacturin g busines s concept s an dprinciple s i n th e STEM educationa l process . H e state dthi s was agoo dti e i n wit h cultur e an ddignity issues , an dh e wante dt o se e continuou s improvemen t an dlean manufacturin g i n th e ai r carrie r industry . Mr . Donnell y adde dther e i s anee dt o dovetai l thes e issue s wit h busines s improvemen t initiative s t o compet e i n th e globa l marketplace . H e state dtopi c 2 i s necessar y for this . Ms . Frien daske di f

th e Secretary o f

Transportatio n o r

th e stakeholder s (busines s an dlabor ) coul d accomplis h topi c 2 . Ms . Frien dreference dAmerica n Airline s i n Tulsa, Oklahoma , a s agoo dexample . Mr . Donnell y clarifie dtha t America n Airline s successfull y combine dth e workforc e wit h managemen t principle s there . H e adde dther e mus t b e aconversatio n betwee n labo r an dmanagement , an di t

mus t b e abou t drivin g th e busines s case . I n usin g America n Airline s a s an example , Mr . Donnell y recounte d tha t th e MD-8 0 puls e lin e reduce dtur n time s from2 4 t o 1 4 days , an dmanagemen t wa s abl e t o reduc e th e hea dcoun t

b y 5 0 percent . H e adde dth e plan t wa s als o abl e t o reduc e tur n time s o n th e Boein g 77 7 landin g gea

r an dincrease dproductio n from20 0 leg s pe r year t o 30 0 leg s pe r

year . Mr . Donnell y state d a t th e plan t i n Tulsa , Oklahoma , i t

i s difficul t

t o discern wh o i s i n managemen t an dwh o i s i n labor , becaus e the y ar e al l o n th e sam e team . H e note dthi s i s acompellin g mode l an di t can hel p th e subcommitte e negotiat e th e workforc e issue . Ms . Egnotovic h agree dtha t t o achiev e lean , continuou s improvement , th e entir e tea mneed s t o work togethe r t o achiev e acommo n goal . However , th e issu e with topi c 2 stresse s th e educationa l nee dt o teac h student s abou t

lea n managemen t

an doperationa l excellence . H e note dthes e subject s mus t b e include di n th e STE M curriculu mi f th e industry expect s t o recrui t th e bes t an dbrightest . Ms . Egnotovic h state di n he r experience , universitie s today giv e littl e guidanc e i n thes e subjects . Mr . Donnell y acknowledge dMs . Egnotovich' s thought s an demphasize dth e proces s o f improvemen t an dteamin g mus t

g o together . Sh e adde dtha t educatio n shoul dinclud e subject s o n collaboratio n an d teamwork to hel p driv e th e workforc e i n apositiv e directio n wit h regar dt o cultur e an ddignity . Ms . Frien dfollowe dthi s discussio n b y askin g i f topic s 2 an d3 i n appendi x A t o thi s recor do f meetin g shoul db e combined . Ms . Egnotovic h agree dwith th e suggestio n an dstate dtopi c 3 als o ca n includ e several othe r

ideas . Subcommitte e member s agree dtha t creatin g aDO T STE M advisory counci lFutur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo r an d World-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g August 6, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C (topi c 3 ) i s aproductiv e idea . Th e Subcommitte e als o agree di t coul dincorporat e severa l idea s for th e advisory counci l t o wor

k on . Ms . Fornarott o aske di f

th e DO T STE M advisory counci l wil l b e comprise donl y o f DO T staf f o r i f th e counci l wil l includ e outsid e stakeholder s a s well . Ms . Frien daske dfor inpu t fro mth e subcommittee , an dMs . Egnotovic h state dsh e preferre dincludin g member s outsid e o f th e DOT . Mr . Barge r

aske di f thes e idea s lin e u p wit

h th e Secretar y o f

Education' s views . Ms . Fornarott o state dsh e i s stil l contemplatin g that , bu t

sh e feel s th e counci l woul db e mos t effectiv e wit h interagenc y members , includin g member s fro mth e Whit e Hous e an dDepartment s o f Education , Energy , an dLabor . Th e Interagenc y Aerospac e Revitalizatio n Tas k Forc e Ms . Frien ddirecte dth e subcommitte e t o evaluat e topi c 7 i n appendi x A t o thi s recor do f meetin g regardin g th e Interagenc y Aerospac e Revitalizatio n Tas k Forc e an daske di f

i t ca n b e refashione dt o serv e multipl e purposes . Ms . Egnotovic h provide dsummar y informatio n o n thi s tas k force . Sh e state d i t was put int o law i n 200 6 b y Presiden t Bus h an dle db y th e Assistan t Secretary o f

Labor . Sh e adde di t wa s forme dt o improv e th e aerospac e industry' s acces s t o ascientificall y an dtechnologically traine d workforce . Ms . Egnotovic h note dth e tas k forc e issue dareport

i n Januar y 200 8 bu t

ha s no t ha dmuc h activit y sinc e then . Sh e state dit s purpos e i s ver y simila r t o STE M objective s but

th e projec t

ha s los t momentum . Accordin g to Mr . Barger , ther e i s interes t i n supportin g topi c 7 . H e state dat it s core , businesse s hav e t o appea l t o student s an dstudent s mus t tak e a n interes t i n th e aviatio n industry ; thus , th e subcommitte e mus t support th e tas k force . Ms . Frien dstate dth e member s o f th e subcommitte e mus t

b e willin g t o wor k togethe r to refin e th e informatio n abou t th e tas k force . Sh e note dthi s include s determinin g wh o shoul db e on th e tas k

force , wha t

wil l happe n with it , an dwhat topic s i t wil l address . Mr . Robert

Lekites , UPS , state dh e believe s havin g a n educate dworkforc e i s acritica l challenge . H e note dth e educationa l backgroun dset s th e foundatio n fo r employee s t o hav e atea mfocu s an doperat e a s acollaborativ e workforce . Mr . Lekite s expresse dconcern abou t th e agin g workforc e an dtha t th e pipelin e fo

r areplacemen t

workforc e i s bein g shu t

off . H e state di n hi s opinion , th e foreig n workstation s are doin g amor e effectiv e jo b i n developin g employee s throug h educatio n an d collaboration . H e adde dth e questio n i s wha t can b e don e fro man industr y perspective . Mr . Lekite s note dth e en dresul t

mus t b e a n educate dworkforce . Ms . Frien dsummarize dth e discussio n b y statin g th e subcommitte e support s thi s topic . Sh e note dal l sector s o f th e aviatio n industry woul dbenefi t fromwor

k don e i n thi s area . I n he r experience , Goodric h an dALPA hav e th e mos t expertis e i n creatin g proposal s tha t woul dbenefi t

everyone . Ms . Egnotovic h state dsh e wa s willin g t o wor k wit h Ms . McAhron-Schul z t o find amor e concis e way t o presen t thi s information . Ms . Egnotovic h adde dMs . McNell y wil l ad dvaluable informatio n an dhel p increas e momentum .Futur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo r an d World-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g August 6, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C Challenge s Facin g Airpor t Recruitmen t Ms . McAhron-Schul z commente do n th e nee dt o attrac t th e bes t an dbrightes t

t o th e industry an d recognize dthi s concep t

i s applicabl e t o al l aspect s o f th e aviatio n industry , includin g airports . Sh e requeste dthat

Ms . Thell aBowens , Sa

n Dieg o Count

y Regiona l Airport

Authority , discus s issue s facin g airports . Ms . Bowen s offere dhe r inpu t an dnote dth e need s a

t airport s diffe

r slightl y fromth e res t

o f th e industry , i n tha t

th e need s ar e not

al l technical . Ms . McAhron-Schulz , Ms . Egnotovich , an d Ms . Bowen s agree dt o work togethe r t o refin e thi s category an dmak e i t applicabl e for

job s acros s th e aviatio n industry . Ms . Frien drecommende dthe y wai t t o hear th e presentatio n Ms . McNell y wil l giv e a t th e Augus t

25 , 2010 , FAA C meeting . Ms . Frien dinvite dMs . Bowen s t o describ e th e issue s airport s currentl y face . Ms . Bowen s explaine d airport s operat e unde r

som e regulation s that

mak e i t difficul t for airport s t o ge t

involve di n outreac h effort s a t universitie s an dwithi n th e communit y t o hel p identif y workforc e issues . Sh e state dth e curren t regulator y issue s d o no t

allo w airport s t o us e resource s for anythin g no t

directl y relate dt o th e airport . Ms . Bowen s state dthi s issu e coul db e fixedrelativel y easil y i f airport s coul dallocat e resource s fo r developin g long-ter mworkforces . Sh e adde dairport s als o nee dt o bette r support th e educationa l program s alread y i n plac e t o allo w graduate s t o wor k a t airports . I n addition , Ms . Bowen s recognize d th e lac k o f aformalize dsyste mfor

placin g intern s a

t airports . Sh e observe dtha t whil e Sa n Dieg o Internationa l Airport

ha s an internshi p program , i t woul db e helpfu l t o hav e othe r airport s i n anetwork t o effectivel y plac e student s i n internshi p roles . Sh e state di t need s t o b e determine dwhic h airport s hav e opportunitie s availabl e an dca n assis t i n th e caree r

developmen t

o f students . Ms . Fornarott o commente do n th e possibilit y o f changin g th e regulation s t o mee t th e need s o f

th e airports . Sh e state di t

i s contingen t

upo n whic h regulation s nee dchanging . Sh e note dth e DO T i s willin g t o discus s thi s an ddetermin e i f i t i s possibl e t o mak e adjustments . Ms . Bowen s offere dt o pu t informatio n togethe r

for th e full FAAC , becaus e non e o f th e othe r subcommittee s hav e jurisdictio n o n thi s subject . Internationa l Labo rStandard s Ms . Frien dreferre dt o adiscussio n hel da t th e first Labo r an dWorld-clas s Workforc e subcommitte e meetin g abou t

internationa l labo r

standards . Sh e note dther e was alac k o f specifi c informatio n regardin g thi s topic . Ms . Frien dstate dsh e an dth e TWU ar e proposin g t o brin g i n atopi c expert fro m th e strategi c researc h staf f a t TW U t o discus s usin g internationa l labo r standard s a s astabilizin g forc e t o leve l th e playin g field. Mr . Donnell y state dth e nex t topi c expert

wil l b e Mr . K . Dea n Hubbard , Jr. , TWU , an dh e provide d Mr . Hubbard' s qualifications . Mr . Donnell y state dMr . Hubbar di s goin g t o offe r hi s expertis e o n internationa l labo r

standards, rathe r

tha n o n organize dlabor . Th e subcommitte e member s di dno t objec t t o thi s suggestion .Futur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo r an d World-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g August 6, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C Th e Impac t o f NextGe n o n th e Workforc e Ms . Frien dthe n state dsh e spok e wit h representative s fro mNATC A an dPAS S abou t ho w NextGe n wil l affec t th e worker s the y represent . Sh e als o spoke with dispatcher s fro mai r carrier s represente db y TWU . Sh e note dalthoug h eac h grou p ha s specifi c issues , the y al l hav e on e underlyin g concern : the y d o no t feel th e workforc e i s involve di n th e developmen t an dimplementatio n o f

NextGen . Sh e state d th e bes t solutio n i s t o creat e astructur e tha t let s NATC A an dPAS S member s giv e meaningfu l input . Ms . Frien dadde dsh e plan s t o work wit h TW U t o mak e aspecifi c proposal . Sh e als o suggeste d holdin g aroundtabl e discussion , independen t o f th e FA A an dth e DOT , tha t include s th e worker s affecte db y NextGen . Sh e state dth e goa l woul db e t o brin g th e worker s i n for amor e formalize d discussion . Mr . Donnell y agree dwit h Ms . Frien dbut state dh e feel s th e curren t attempt s t o involv e worker s ar e me t b y stonewalls . H e note dthi s typ e o f effor t seem s t o b e difficul t

t o start an dther e ha s bee n littl e progress . Mr . Lekite s replie dtha t NextGe n i s awor

k i n progress . H e adde dth e developmen t proces s i s alearnin g experience . H e requeste dclarificatio n o n th e issu e a s i t relate s t o employee s involve d wit h NextGen . Ms . Frien dstate dsh e ha dspoke n t o ai r traffi c controller s an dthe y hav e outstandin g questions , suc h a s ho w th e staffin g situatio n wil l change , wha t th e trainin g proces s wil l involve , an dwhe n it wil l begin . Sh e adde dth e workforc e need s answer s t o thes e questions , o r a t leas t need s t o b e involve di n th e discussions . I n addition , Ms . Frien dstate dsom e preliminary test s ar e bein g conducte dan dth e controller s are no t

bein g included . Sh e observe dth e test s are conducte db y supervisors , wh o are no t typicall y expose dt o th e day-to-da y operation s controller s experience . Mr . Donnell y disagree dan d state di n hi s experience , th e loca l towe r employee s were conductin g th e tests . Ms . Fornarott o offere dt o work wit h th e FA A an dTW

U o n th e communicatio n issue . Ms . Frien d suggeste dMs . Fornarott o als o tal k t o NATC A an dPAS S abou t th e issu e t o kee p th e line s o f communicatio n open . Ms . McAhron-Schul z an dMs . Fornarott o state dther e wil l b e aNextGe n presentatio n b y Ms . Victori aCox , FAA , a t th e full committe e meetin g o n Augus t 25 , 2010 . The y note dthi s presentatio n wil l las t

for a n hou r an dwil l addres s th e concern s o f eac h subcommittee . Th e subcommitte e agree do n th e importanc e o f keepin g thi s initiativ e i n th e lis t o f recommendations . The y determine damor e refine drecommendatio n wil l b e mad e after Ms . Cox' s presentation . Collectiv e Bargainin g Ms . Frien dmove dth e conversatio n t o th e recommendatio n abou t th e prolonge dcollectiv e bargainin g proces s unde r

th e Railway Labo r

Ac t o f 192 6 (RLA) , it s effect s o n th e labor-managemen t relationship , an dwhat can b e don e t o improv e it . Ms . Frien dstate dsh e approache dth e Nationa l Mediatio n Boar d (NMB ) t o solici t

apresentatio n o n it s rol e i n ensurin g timel y collectiv e bargainin g unde r th e RL A an dho w it

ca n contribut e t o amor e satisfie dworkforce . Sh e state dMr . Harr y Hoglande r an d Ms . Lind aPuchala , NMB , agree dt o presen t at th e Augus t

25 , 2010 , FAA C meeting . Ms . Fornarott oFutur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo ran d World-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g August 6, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C suggeste dth e thir dmembe r o f th e NMB , Ms . Elizabeth Dougherty , shoul dals o participat e i n th e presentatio n o n Augus t

25 , 2010 . Ms . Fornarott o state dsh e ha s see n th e presentatio n an dnote dit i s hal f a n hou r long . Sh e note da

n adjustmen t

ma y b e mad e t o accommodat e th e extr a1 0 minute s neede d fo r thi s presentation . Ms . McAhron-Schul z suggeste dth e NM B brie f th e FAA C o n th e negotiation s environmen t an dho w it s effort s t o streamlin e th e proces s wil l chang e th e proces s i n th e future . Sh e state di t woul db e productiv e i f

th e NM B offere dit s perspectiv e o n th e challenge s an dopportunitie s collectiv e bargainin g face s with regar dt o th e issue s TW U raised . Ms . Frien dstate dsh e wil l brie f th e NM B an dsen dth e boar dth e full TW U versio n s o th e member s ar e prepared . Mr . Lekite s note di n hi s experience , th e tim e spen t i n negotiation s fa

r outweigh s th e tim e spen t ou t o f negotiations . H e state dth e subcommitte e woul dbenefi t fro mabette r

understandin g o f

th e busines s mode l an dth e rol e o f

th e employee . H e adde dther e i s a n opportunity fo

r th e NM B t o discus s ho w t o hel p organization s prepar e fo r enterin g int o negotiations . Mr . Lekite s adde di t woul dals o b e valuabl e t o discus s th e issue s tha t

driv e negotiation s int o aprolonge dstate . Mr . Lekite s recommende dth e subcommitte e hear fro mamediato r

t o hel p understan dth e othe r sid e o f th e situation . H e suggeste dformer NM B membe r

Mr . JoshuaJavits , Disput e Resolutio n Services , fo r thi s role . Mr . Lekite s state dMr . Javit s wil l b e abl e t o teac h the mho w t o ge t bette r result s i n amor e timel y fashio n an dwit h les s impac t o n th e business , regardles s o f whic h sid e o f

th e tabl e yo u are on . H e adde dMr . Javit s i s a

n arbitrativ e mediato r

for labo r management , employment , pension , contract , persona l injury , an dothe r disputes. Mr . Lekite s als o note dMr . Javit s i s a n attorne y with extensiv e trainin g i n arbitration . H e state dMr . Javit s wil l b e abl e t o offe r abalance dguid e an dneutra l insigh t int o ho w companies , unions , an dwor k group s wor

k togethe r t o solv e problems . Ms . Frien dstate dther e wil l no t b e tim e t o hav e thi s discussio n a t th e full committe e meetin g o n Augus t 25 , 2010 . Instea dsh e offere dt o invit e Mr . Javit s t o giv e hi s presentatio n at th e nex t subcommitte e meeting . Ms . Frien dtoo k

amoment

t o confir msh e was taske dwith makin g arecommendatio n t o th e NM B regardin g th e thre e presenters , confirmin g th e thre e topi c expert s fo r th e FAAC , an dfinalizing th e thre e recommendations . Sh e the n invite dsubcommitte e member s t o mak e additiona l suggestions . Critica l Issue s Ms . McAhron-Schul z referre dt o th e origina l submissio n abou t creatin g jo b securit y fo

r employees . Sh e suggeste dbankruptc y legislatio n reforms . Sh e state dhe r belie f tha t bankruptc y i s no t

atoo l for eliminatin g collectiv e bargainin g agreement s or overreducin g positions , an dbankruptc y court s shoul d tak e jo b security , healthcare , benefits , an demploye e moral e int o consideration . Mr . Barge r

state dthi s topi c i s critica l fo r th e subcommittee , bu t

i t ma y b e to o bi g t o ac t

o n i n th e allotte dtime . Alon g wit h bankruptc y reform , h e offere dth e topic s o f foreig n ownership , code-sharing , an doutsourcin g models .Futur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo ran d World-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g August 6, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C Ms . Frien dagree dwith Mr . Barge r an drecognize dth e subcommitte e i s bac k t o th e critica l issue s that fac e th e aviatio n industry . Sh e aske dth e subcommitte e member s whethe r the y shoul dtackl e thes e issues . Sh e state dwith regar dt o th e bankruptc y issue , ther e i s apendin g piec e o f legislatio n that

mos t likel y wil l no t

b e passed . Ms . Frien dpose daquestio n t o Ms . McAhron-Schul z abou t draftin g a proposa l fo

r DO T t o assis t

wit h this . Ms . McAhron-Schul z replie dthat , mor e tha n anything , ALP A i s lookin g for

suppor t for thi s legislation . Ms . Frien dreminde dth e subcommitte e o f th e thre e issue s o n th e tabl e for furthe r discussion : bankruptc y reform , jo b outsourcing , an dforeig n ownership . Sh e note dal l thre e pertai n t o jo b security . Ms . McAhron-Schul z note dth e Subcommitte e o n Competitivenes s an dViabilit y decide dt o tak e th e issu e o f foreig n ownershi p of

f th e tabl e becaus e it

i s no t likel y t o reac h aconsensu s o n tha t topic . With regar dt o jo b outsourcing , Mr . Donnell y state dTW U i s proactiv e i n usin g foreig n an ddomesti c repai r stations . H e note dther e i s ofte n arac e t o th e botto mwith regar dt o wages , an dth e us e o f outsourcin g becam e prevalen t ove r th e pas t severa l year s becaus e o f

th e bankruptc y issue . A s a potential solution , h e suggeste dcompanie s tak e aloo k a t what ca n b e don e internall y before lookin g externally . Mr . Barge r

disagree dwith Mr . Donnelly' s assertion s an dstate di t depend s o n th e len s tha t

on e look s through . Mr . Barge r

adde dh e doe s no t

fee l JetBlu e look s a

t th e situatio n a s arac e t o th e bottom ; rathe r it i s ane w mode l withi n th e industr y tha t i s fundamentall y broken . H e state dalthoug h th e recommendation s pu t

fort h ar e important , h e doe s no t feel th e item s identifie dar e th e heart o f th e issue . Ms . Frien dencourage dMr . Barge r t o shar e hi s opinion s an dexpresse dhe r appreciatio n i n bein g abl e t o discus s controversia l issues . Sh e agree dwith Mr . Barge r i n hi s assessmen t

tha t th e industry i s fundamentall y broken . Ms . Frien dexplaine dsh e think s th e busines s model i s flawe dan daske d Mr . Barge r

fo r a n explanatio n a s t o wh y h e think s th e industry i s broken . Mr . Barge r

state dan industry tha t

wil l no t cove r it s cos t o f capita l wil l not

attrac t capital . H e expresse d concern tha t

foreig n operator s ar e goin g t o becom e mor e powerfu l tha n fla g carrier s i f th e industry i s unabl e t o attrac t

capital . H e adde dwithou t capital , th e industry wil l remai n fundamentall y broken . Ms . Frien daske dwh y th e industr y i s unabl e t o cove r th e cos t o f capita l an dattrac t

ne w capital . Mr . Barge r

suggeste di t

may b e an issu e o f

capacity ; eithe r

ther e i s to o muc h o r

i t i s th e wron g type . H e note dwithi n th e industry , ther e i s plent y o f roo mfo r different models , an dthos e model s mus t b e competitiv e wit

h foreig n models . Mr . Barge r emphasize da

n investo r woul dno t

inves t i n ai r carrier s i f h e ha s th e optio n o f

investin g i n an industr y like technology . With regar dt o coverin g th e cos t o f capital , h e state dJetBlu e ha s turne dt o foreig n investors , namel y Lufthansa , whic h ha s prove n t o b e successful . H e als o note dJetBlu e ha s outsource dsom e o f it s work , not

becaus e o f

cost , bu t becaus e o f quality . Mr . Donnell y stresse dtha t hi s positio n i s no t

o f unio n versu s no n union ; i t i s amatte r

o f creatin g well-payin g jobs . H e expresse dinteres t i n athir doption . Mr . Donnell y clarifie dther e i s abinar y though t proces s that

compare s legac y ai r

carrier s an dai r

carrier s lik e JetBlue , but ther e i s anothe r

wayFutur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo ran d World-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g Augusts, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C o f thinking . Mr . Barge r

agree dther e i s anothe r

way o f thinkin g an di t

i s possibl e t o merg e th e ne w an d th e old . Mr . Donnell y provide dth e exampl e o f America n Airline s i n Tulsa , Oklahoma , i n whic h everyon e i s o n th e sam e team . H e state dth e effort s mad e ther e shoul db e th e exampl e fo r a thir doption . Ms . Frien dstate deverythin g JetBlu e does , includin g outsourcing , i s withi n th e curren t regulation s an d legal guidelines . Sh e aske di f ther e ar e an y idea s tha t

ca n b e brough t

t o th e Secretary o f

Transportatio n t o hel p ai r

carrier s innovat e more . Mr . Barge r

expresse dhi s support

for foreig n ownershi p an dstate dh e disagree dwit h th e curren t ca p a t 2 5 percent . H e observe dtha t th e Lufthans ainvestmen t ha s allowe dJetBlu e t o ad djob s an drefrai n fromissuin g pay cuts , an di t ha s helpe dJetBlue' s busines s model . Mr . Barge r stresse dther e i s n o righ t or wron g decisio n wit h regar dt o foreig n ownership , provide di t ca n improv e th e business . Ms . Bowen s suggeste dth e subcommitte e no t focu s o n th e solution s t o difficul t problems . Rather , sh e state dth e subcommitte e coul didentif y th e toug h issue s tha t

fac e th e aviatio n industry an dpresen t the m t o th e Secretary o f

Transportatio n a s arecommendatio n fo r future committees . Sh e agree dther e ar e toug h issue s o n th e table , an dthes e issue s canno t b e solve di n 8 months . However , sh e stresse dthes e issue s nee dt o b e recognize dbecaus e th e aviatio n industry canno t becom e asustainabl e industry a s lon g a s thes e issue s remain . Ms . McAhron-Schul z an dMs . Fornarott o agree do n thi s resolution . Ms . McAhron-Schul z agree dtha t th e subcommitte e ha s bee n challenge dwith identifyin g th e element s tha t wil l encourag e successfu l busines s models . Sh e aske di f th e subcommitte e shoul dtackl e th e bankruptc y issue , o r

i f i t shoul db e delegate dt o th e Subcommitte e o n Financing . Ms . Frien demphasize dtha t bette r protectio n fo

r worker s i n abankruptc y situatio n fall s directl y unde r th e scop e o f

th e Labo r

an dWorld-clas s Workforc e Subcommittee , but th e continua l us e o f

bankruptc y fo r restructurin g may fal l unde r th e scop e o f

th e Subcommitte e o n Competitivenes s an dViability . Ms . Fornarott o confirme dth e othe r subcommittee s ar

e not focusin g o n th e bankruptc y issue . Ms . Frien dthanke dth e subcommitte e member s for bringin g thes e topic s t o th e table . Sh e state dth e topic s o f jo b outsourcing , bankruptcy , an dforeig n ownershi p ar e al l issue s that kee p th e aviatio n industry unstabl e an dpla y acontributin g rol e i n preventin g qualifie demployee s fro menterin g th e field. Sh e aske dth e subcommitte e for an y additiona l ideas . Mr . Barge r

suggeste dth e subcommitte e discus s th e RL A an dwhethe r i t i s stil l effectiv e for

th e industry ove r

7 0 year s afte

r i t was established . Ms . Frien dnote dth e RL A doe s prolon g th e collectiv e bargainin g process . Sh e observe dth e RL A doe s not expire , bu t

i t i s amendable , specificall y t o preven t th e interruptio n o f

th e flo w o f

transportation . Ms . Frien dstate di n he r opinion , ther e i s n o nee dt o chang e it . Mr . Barge r

replie dh e i s simpl y bringin g idea s t o th e tabl e fo r discussio n an dwondere di f th e RL A i s helpfu l o r

harmfu l i n bringin g ne w talen t t o th e industry . Ms . Frien dstate dther e need s t o b e alabo r ac t fo r th e aviatio n industry , an dth e RL A cover s both th e ai r carrie r an drai l industries . Sh e observe dworker s may wan t t o b e covere dunde r

th e Nationa l Labo rFutur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo ran d World-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g August 6, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C Relation s Act , bu t

i t doe s no t appl y t o th e transportatio n industry . Ms . Frien dnote dth e RL A ha s bee n examine danumbe r

o f time s an dsh e agree di t

i s acceptabl e t o examin e i t again . Mr . Lekite s state dth e aviatio n industr y i s accustome dt o th e proces s o f th e RLA . H e note di n orde r t o improv e thi s process , th e timeline s i n contrac t negotiatio n nee dt o b e adjuste dt o accomplis h goal s befor e th e amendabl e date . Mr . Donnell y adde di t i s no t th e ac t itsel f tha t i s a n issue , bu t

th e applicatio n o f

it . H e suggeste dthes e question s shoul db e brough t t o th e NM B t o determin e ho w th e RL A i s applie dan dimplemented . Ms . Frien dstate dMr . Javit s wil l b e abl e t o offe r mor e informatio n o n thi s topic . Sh e agree dwith Mr . Donnell y abou t

th e applicatio n o f

th e RLA . Sh e suggeste dfurthe r discussio n o f

thi s topi c tak e plac e after

th e presentation s fro mth e Mr . Javit s an dth e NMB . Mr . Barge r

raise dth e topi c o f

th e Stagger s Rai l Ac t

o f 1980 . H e askedi f

ther e ar e lesson s t o b e learne dfromthi s ac t

becaus e th e rai l industry continue s t o attrac t capital . Th e subcommitte e member s state dthe y are unawar e o f th e Stagger s Rai l Ac t

o f 1980 , an dMr . Barge r

offere dt o writ e asmal l descriptio n o f

it before th e nex t

subcommitte e meeting . Mr . Barge r

raise dfitness o f

ne w ai r carrier s a s anothe r

topi c fo r discussion . H e note dth e prevalenc e o f failur e with ne w entrant s i s adeterren t t o attractin g ne w talen t

t o th e aviatio n industry . H e adde dwhe n an ai r carrie r fails , th e communit y an dit s employee s are lef t behind . Ms . Frien dagree dwith thi s statemen t an dsuggeste dther e shoul db e ahighe r burden , becaus e curren t

standard s ar e to o low . Ms . McAhron-Schul z recommende dth e issu e b e addresse dfro mth e perspectiv e o f th e publi c interest , becaus e ther e i s aclaus e i n th e DO T cod e tha t allow s fo r creatin g aviabl e industry tha t i s abl e t o attrac t capital . Th e subcommitte e agree dt o writ e paragrap h description s o f th e majo r topic s for

inclusio n i n th e final presentation . Thes e ar e th e topic s tha t mus t b e addresse dbecaus e the y ar e harmfu l t o attractin g ne w talen t

to th e aviatio n industry :

• Jo b outsourcing : Mr . Donnell y an dMr . Barge r • Bankruptc y refor

musin g th e ALP A definition : Ms . McAhron-Schul z • Foreig n ownership : Ms . Frien dan dMr . Lekite s • Foreig n repai r

stations : Mr . Lekites , Mr . Donnelly , an dMs . Egnotovic h

• Code-sharin g an dfee s for departure : Mr . Barge r

an dMs . McAhron-Schul z

• Fitnes s standard s fo

r ne w entrants : Mr . Barge r an dMs . McAhron-Schul z CLOSIN G REMARK S AN D ADMINISTRATIV E MATTER S Ms . Frien dattende dt o severa l busines s matters . Sh e note dth e minute s for th e Jul y 8 , 2010 , meetin g wer e approved . Th e subcommitte e discusse dth e tim e an dlocatio n for th e nex t subcommitte e meeting , an dagree dto mee t

Septembe r

23 , 2010 , i n Ne w Yor

k City , Ne w York .Futur e o f Aviatio n Advisor y Committe e Labo ran d World-clas s Workforc e Subcommitte e

Recor d o f Meetin g Augusts, 2010 Communication s Worker s o f Americ a Washington , D C Ms . Frien dconfirme dth e nex t tw o FAA C meeting s wil l b e i n Chicago , Illinois , o n Augus t 25 , 2010 , an di n Lo s Angeles , California , o n Octobe r 20 , 2010 . Sh e adde dth e las t subcommitte e meetin g wil l b e i n Decembe r

201 0 i n Washington , DC . Th e subcommitte e tentativel y agree dt o anothe r meetin g o n th e afternoo n o f

Novembe r

15 , 2010 , with alocatio n t o b e determined . ADJOURNMEN T Ms . William s solicite damotio n fo r adjournment . O n motion , dul y seconde dan dapprove db y th e majorit y o f th e subcommitte e member s present , th e meetin g was adjourned . Th e meetin g adjourne da

t 3:2 1 p.m . I hereb y certif

y that , tcvtj^

e bes t o f m y knowledge , th e foregoin g minute s ar e accurat e an dcomplete . Approve dby : Ter/

i Williams , Designate dFedera l Officia l 

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