1



### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5


### Public Hearing on 6



### Proposed Clean Power Plan for 7


### Existing Power Plants 8

9

10

11



### 9:0 0 a.m. to 5 : 36 p.m. 12



### Thursday, July 31 , 201 4 13

14



### Room B 15


### William S. Moorhead Federal Building 16



### 100 Liberty Avenue 17


### Pittsburg, Pennsylvania 15222 18

19

20

21

22

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### EPA PANEL 1: 1



### DAVID ARNOLD , 2


### EPA Regional Office, Philadelphia 3



### MIKE KOERBER , 4



### EPA Headquarters
, Air Office, North Carolina 5



### DIANA ESHER , 6


### EPA Regional Office, Philadelphia 7



### SHAWN GARVIN, 8


### EPA Regional Administrator, Philadelphia 9

10



### EPA PANEL 2: 11



### MEG VI CTOR , 12


### EPA Air Office, Washington, D.C. 13



### MIKE KOERBER , 14



### EPA Headquarters, Air Office, North Carolina 15



### DONNA MASTRO , 16


### EPA Region 3, Air Division 17

18

19

20

21

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2



### JIM DOYLE , 22 3



### President of Business Forward 4



### MARK DIXON , 27 5



### Filmmaker, citizen, activist 6



### LORA CHAMBERLAIN , MD 33 7


### Representative of Frack Free Illinois 8



### JILL PAULUS , 38 9



### Illinois resident 10



### ELAINE LAB ALME , 42 11



### Illinois resident 12



### STEPHANIE BILENKO, 45 13



### Illinois resident 14



### CHRISTOPHER MAXIE , 50 15



### National Wild life Federation 16



### JAY APT, MD , 53 17


### Carnegie Mellon professor 18



### PAT LUPO , 58 19



### Benedictine Sisters of Erie, Pen nsylvania 20



### REVEREND LEAH SCHADE, MD , 61 21


### Advocacy Ministry of Pennsylvania 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### P AGE 2



### NIKKI SILVESTRI , 66 3



### Executive Director, Green for All 4



### SUSAN CARTY , 71 5


### President, League of Women Voters of PA 6



### ANNETTE SHIMER , 75 7


### President, League of Women Voters of 8


### Greater Pittsburgh, former member of 9


### Allegheny County Air Quality Commiss ion 10



### MATT RUSSELL , 80 11



### Iowa farmer 12



### PETER BIXLER , 86 13


### Pennsylvania resident 14



### JACKSON MORRIS , 88 15


### Director, Eastern Energy to Natural 16



### Resources Defense Council 17



### JONATHAN ROBERSON , 95 18


### Pennsylvania attorney 19



### ISA MUHAMMAD, 97 20



### Ohio resident 21

22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### JOHN ZIAK, MD , 100 3


### Statistician, Pennsylvania State University 4



### JOHN EICH , 103 5


### Pennsylvania resident 6



### FRED KRAY BILL , 107 7


### Pennsylvania resident 8



### JEANEEN ZAPPA , 1 1 0 9



### Executive Dire ctor, Conservation 10



### Consultants
, Inc. 11



### MELODY FLECK, 1 15 12


### Pennsylvania resident 13



### PETER WRAY, 118 14


### Chair, Allegheny Group of the Sierra Club 15



### JOHN BECHTEL , 123 16


### Pennsylvania res ident 17



### STEPHEN TODD , 126 18


### Pennsylvania resident 19



### MICHELLE NACCARATI

- CH APKIS, 129 20



### Women for a Health Environment 21

22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### GEORGE RATLIFF , 134 3


### Inventor, solar efficiency 4



### STACY WICKETT , 137 5


### Pennsylvania resident 6



### ANNA BERCH

- NORTON, 139 7



### Pennsylva nia resident 8



### BARBARA PACE , 141 9



### Clean Water Action Committee 10



### JOHN NAGL E , 146 11


### Professor, Carnegie Mellon 12



### ROBERT BAKER , 151 13


### Virginia resident 14



### PAUL FISCHBECK, 155 15


### Professor, Carnegie Mellon, research team 16



### MICHAEL NIXON, 160 17



### Center fo r Biological Diversity 18



### DAN SULLIVAN, 165 19


### Director, Saving Communities 20



### JENNIFER GARRISON, 169 21


### Former Ohio State Representative 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### ROBERT CIESIELSKI, 2


### New York State Atlantic Chapter, 172 3



### Sierra Club 4



### BRIGET SHIELDS, 183 5


### Pennsylvania resident 6



### DAVID INGRUND, 188 7


### Pennsylvania resident 8



### MATT WALKER, 192 9



### Director, Clean Air Council 10



### SHERRI SMITH, 199 11



### Ohio resident 12



### JENNIFER QUINN, 204 13


### Pennsylvania res ident 14



### ANNE CARUSO, 208 15


### Fracking representative, Ohio Group 16



### Sierra Club 17



### ROBERT ALTENBURG, 214 18



### Energy Analyst, PennFuture Energy Center 19



### RACHEL MARK, 219 20


### Pennsylvania Unified Power and Light 21

22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### DEB NARDONE, 223 2


### Director, Sierra Club's Beyond Natural 3


### Gas campaign 4



### LOIS HORNBOSTEL, 227 5



### Proposal supporter 6



### CHARLOTTE OWENS, 231 7



### Ohio resident 8



### THOMAS RADECKI, MD 234 9


### Retired physician 10



### TOM RODD, 239 11



### Di rector, Friends of Blackwater Allegheny 12


### Highlands Climate Change Initiative 13



### GEORGE HOGUET, 244 14


### Pennsylvania resident 15



### SEAMUS MCGRAW, 250 16


### Pennsylvania resident 17



### JUDY ROSEMAN, 254 18



### Ohio resident and businesswoman 19



### TOM MULLANEY, 260 20


### History teac her 21

22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### ALAN LOCKWOOD, MD, 262 2


### Senior Scientist, Physicians for Social 3


### Responsibility 4



### C INDY DUNN, 267 5



### Read on behalf of Dr. Michael Mann 6



### GRETCHEN DAHLKEMPER, 272 7


### Manager, Moms Clean Air Force 8



### PATRICIA SNEAD, 277 9


### West Virginia resident 10



### A RIANA NELSON, 281 11


### Pittsburgh Citizen Climate Lobby 12



### CHRISTINA ZHOU, 285 13


### Environmental engineer 14



### ARLENE MERCURIO, 291 15



### Master's

- public policy, Sierra Club member 16



### SCOTT MILLER, 294 17


### Director, Sustainability and Product Affa irs, 18



### Knauf Insulation 19



### COURT GOULD, 299 20


### Executive Director, Sustainable Pittsburgh 21

22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PATRICK GRENTER, 304 2



### Executive Director, Center for Coalfield 3



### Justice 4



### FRANCIS RECO, 308 5


### Pennsylvania resident 6



### JIM EGGED, 312 7



### Re tired firefighter, Public Safety through 8


### Environmental Advocacy 9



### MIKE KAMANDULIS, 316 10


### Pennsylvania resident 11



### JACLYN CLIFFORD, 321 12



### Intern, Center for Coalfield Justice 13



### TOM HOFFMAN, 323 14


### Director, Midwestern Pennsylvania Water 15



### Action 16



### DON GOLDSTEIN , MD, 325 17


### Department of Economics, Allegheny College 18



### NICK BATES, 330 19



### On behalf of Donald A. Brown, Wagner 20


### University of Law 21

22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### RUSS LORINCE, 335 2



### Vice President of External Affairs, 3



### Arch Coal, Inc. 4



### M ICHAEL SPEERSCHNEIDER, 341 5


### Chief Permitting and Policy Officer, 6


### EverPower Wind Holdings 7



### RUSSELL ZERBO, 346 8


### Advocacy Coordinator, Clean Air Council 9



### KHARI MOSLEY, 351 10


### Program Manager, Blue Green Alliance 11



### ALLISON FREEMAN, MD, 355 12


### Pennsylvania resident 13



### DORIAN GHORBI, 361 14



### Director, American Coalition for Clean 15


### Coal Electricity 16

17

18

19

20

21

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1


### MR. KOERBER: Good morning. Thank you 2


### for all being here today. We're going to start 3



### off with a few words from Shawn Garvin, wh o is 4


### the Regional Administrator for our EPA office in 5


### Philadelphia. 6


### MR. GARVIN: Thank you, Mike. 7


### Good morning and thank you for joining us 8


### today as part of this national effort ob taining 9



### comments on EPA's C lean A ir A ct proposal to 10



### eliminate carbon emis sions from power plants. 11


### This is the fourth public hearing that EPA has 12


### held on this proposal. Earlier this week, EPA 13


### held three separate public hearings in Atlanta, 14


### Denver, and Washington, D.C. 15



### Since the Clean Power Plan announcement 16


### in early June, E PA has received a tremendous 17


### amount of feedback. Recognizing this interest, 18


### we added a second day of public hearings in each 19



### location. 20


### Since last September, prior to ever 21


### putting pen to paper, EPA collected extensive 22

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### public input, including 11 public listening 1


### sessions and meetings with more than 300 groups 2


### from across the country. This input has helped 3


### guide the development of the Clean Power Plan. 4


### What we heard helped shape the guiding 5


### principles of our proposal. We heard that 6


### flexibility is key , so we maximized choices 7



### states could make for themselves. We heard that 8


### states could cut pollution cost effectively by 9


### looking at energy system as a whole, so we built 10


### that in. We heard that power sector is 11


### interconnected and not bound by state lines, so 12


### we allowed states to work together or go it 13



### alone, whatever works best for them. 14


### The public comment period is incredibly 15


### valuable to us. We met with 60 different groups 16


### in just the first 25 business days after our 17


### proposal. As for the beginning of th is week, 18



### we've received more than 300,000 comments and 19



### expect many more. We want no stone unturned and 20


### no good idea off the table. 21



### We expect great feedback at these 22

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### sessions. They're a critical opportunity for 1


### people to speak to their government directl y. 2



### But let me also make clear, any comment we 3


### receive by October 16th will be equally accepted 4


### and analyzed. There are no special comments or 5


### special groups. We look at everything carefully, 6


### and EPA does the work to shape that into a rule 7



### we all can be proud of. 8


### We know the purpose of this rule couldn't 9


### be more important. That's why we're putting so 10


### much importance on the process, and the comments 11


### we're getting are going to help us get this rule 12


### right. 13



### Science tell us that climate change is 14



### real; tha t human activities are fueling that 15


### change, and that we must act now to avoid the 16


### most devastating consequences. 17



### In June 2013, President Obama announced 18


### his climate action plan, calling on agencies 19


### across the federal government, including EPA, to 20



### take act ion to cut carbon pollution, to protect 21


### our country from the impacts of climate change, 22

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### and to lead the world in this effort. The 1


### president directed EPA, "To work expeditiously to 2


### complete carbon pollution standards for both new 3


### and existing power plants, " because currently no 4


### federal standards exist for carbon pollution from 5



### the country's largest source. 6


### In September 2013, EPA announced that it 7


### was setting standards for carbon pollution 8


### emitted by new power plants to ensure that power 9


### companies investing in new fossil fuel

- fired 10


### power plants would use modern technologies, 11


### limiting emissions of harmful carbon pollution. 12


### Last month, EPA proposed carbon pollution 13


### guidelines for existing power plants. These 14


### guidelines are required by the Clean Air Act to 15



### de velop and implement programs for reducing 16


### carbon pollution from the power plants operating 17



### in each state. 18



### EPA's mandate is to deliver clean air, 19



### clean water, and safe and healthy lands to 20



### American families. We've done this for more than 21



### four decades, and we've done it by relying on the 22

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### best available science, being transparent in our 1



### decision

- making, and working with everyone to 2


### develop common sense approaches to protecting and 3


### improving the environment across the country. 4


### Before I turn things over to Mi ke to give 5


### you details about the logistics and procedures 6


### for today's hearing, let me conclude with some 7


### final thoughts. 8



### We know we don't have to sacrifice a 9


### healthy economy for a healthy environment. 10


### History shows that since EPA has existed, we've 11



### cut air pollution by more than 70 percent, while 12


### the gross domestic product has tripled. 13


### We know that climate change can't be 14


### solved overnight. It's going to take a broad 15



### concerted effort from all levels or government, 16


### industry, NGOs, utilities, the publ ic, and the 17


### international community. We know that climate 18


### change is already presenting very real risk to 19


### our health, our economy, and our way of life, and 20



### we cannot afford further delay. 21



### People from all sectors of the economy 22

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### and all walks of life are calling for climate 1


### action because our moral obligation is clear. We 2



### all want to make sure the world we leave our 3


### children is a clean, safe, and healthy as 4


### possible, and that's what our proposal is 5


### designed to do. 6


### I want to thank you all for being her e 7


### today. I look forward to hearing your comments

. 8



### A nd I just want to preface, I'm actually going to 9


### go downstairs and open the hearing downstairs, s o 10


### I'm going to have to leave in a couple minutes; 11



### but I want to turn it back over to Mike, Diana, 12



### and Dave . Thank you all. 13



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, Shawn. That was 14



### wonderful. 15



### M y name is Mike Koerber, and I work with 16



### EPA' s Headquarte rs Air office in North Carolina. 17


### I will be chairing this morning's session. 18


### Joining me on the panel are Diana Esher

- 19



### - D iana Esher and Dave Arnold with our EPA 20


### regional office in Philadelphia. 21



### As Shawn said, w e are here today to 22

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### listen to your comments on two proposed EPA rules 1


### to reduce carbon pollution from power plants. 2



### EPA proposed both of these rules on June 2nd. 3



### Be fore we get started, I'd like to go 4


### through a few housekeeping and ground rules for 5


### today's hearing. First, please be sure that you 6


### have checked in at the registration desk 7


### downstairs, even if you're not planning to speak 8


### today, and if you signed up to sp eak in advance 9


### but have not checked in, please do so. 10


### Second, if you're a speaker and you were 11


### given a room letter, you were either given A or 12



### B. This is Room B. You're, of course, welcome to 13



### listen in either of the rooms, and we encourage 14



### you to do so ; and if you were assigned to speak 15


### in Room B, as I said, you're in the right place. 16


### If you're assigned to speak in Room A, please 17


### show up there at your designated time. 18


### Third, please put your phones on vibrate, 19


### and don't hang around in the hall after wards if 20


### you can help it. There are other offices on the 21


### floor, and we'd like to be respectful of their 22

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### operations

. 1



### So h ere's how today's hearing will work. 2


### I will call speakers up in pairs. When your name 3


### is called, please come to the table at the front 4



### of the room. When I call on you to speak, please 5


### state and spell your name. Your comments will be 6


### transcribed by our court reporter and will be 7



### included in the rule

- making record for these 8



### proposed rules. 9


### Each speaker will have five minutes. We 10


### have a light to help you know how much time you 11


### have left to speak. When the light turns from 12


### green to yellow, that means you have one minute 13


### remaining. When it turns red, that's the signal 14


### to wrap up your testimony. The light will flash 15



### red and beep w hen you have spoken for five 16


### minutes and it's time to stop. 17


### When you're finished speaking, please 18


### remain at the table until the person next to you 19


### has completed his or her testimony. I will then 20


### call up the next pair of speakers and so on. 21



### Also, we are here to l isten to your 22

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### comments today; however, a panel member may ask 1



### y ou questions to help clarify your comments. A nd 2


### if you brought a written copy of your testimony, 3


### please give it to the staff at the registration 4



### desk before you leave; and if you have an extra, 5


### if you want to drop it off for the court 6



### reporter, that would be great. 7



### Because of the large number of people who 8


### signed up to speak, and to be fair to everyone, 9



### we must enforce the five

- minute limit. If you 10


### have additional comments you'd li ke to make, then 11


### please submit them in writing. And as Shawn 12


### said, EPA gives just as much consideration to 13


### comments we receive in writing as we do to 14


### comments we receive at public hearings like this. 15


### There's still plenty of time to send 16



### written comments, and there are comment cards 17



### ava ilable at the registration desk; and I have 18


### some up here if you'd like. Comments must be 19


### received by October 16th. W e will put any 20


### written comments submitted today in the official 21



### record for the proposed rules. 22

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### Instructi ons for submitting written 1


### comments in other ways are available at the table 2



### in the back of the room and also at the 3


### registration desk

. 4


### We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 5


### tonight. We'll take a lunch break, a dinner 6



### break, and other short breaks as nee ded

. 7


### If you have any questions during the day, 8



### please see the staff at the registration desk and 9


### someone will help you. 10


### Finally and most importantly, please be 11



### respectful of everyone who speaks today. We have 12


### people here with a wide variety of views, an d we 13


### want to hear from all of you. So to be fair to 14


### everyone, we ask that you listen quietly. Even 15


### applause can slow things down. As I said, we 16


### want to hear from everyone who has signed up to 17



### speak. 18


### Thank you, again, for taking the time to 19



### share your comments on EPA's proposed rules. Now 20



### let's get started. 21


### I'd like to call the first two speakers. 22

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### Thank you, Shawn, for being with us. Our first 1


### two speakers will be Jim Doyle and Mark Dixon. 2



### Mr. Doyle? 3



### MR. DOYLE: J

- i

- m, D

- o

- y

- l

- e. My name is 4



### J im Doyle, and I am president of Business 5



### Forward, a trade association that works with tens 6



### of thousands of business leaders across the 7



### country. I recently co

- authored a study 8


### examining how the proposed carbon standards we 9


### are discussing here today will af fect electricity 10



### costs for manufacturers. 11


### Critics argue that new EPA standards will 12



### cause American manufacturers to shut down their 13


### factories, but if you look at what manufacturers 14


### actually spend on electricity and how that 15


### spending relates to the rest of their budgets, 16


### you’ll find that projected rate increases will 17


### have a small impact on manufacturers’ bottom 18


### lines. Electricity represents less than one 19



### percent of a manufacturer’s total costs on 20


### average. That average is taken across America’s 21



### 19 largest m anufacturing industries. 22

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### The EPA rates would increase costs by 1


### approximately six percent

-- electricity rate 2


### costs by about six percent by 2020. That means 3


### that the average industry’s total cost would rise 4


### less than .06 percent, six basis points. In 5



### o ther words, if it cost a company $ 100 to make a 6



### part today, there

-- the cost of producing that 7


### $ 100 part will increase by six cents. 8


### On the other hand, supply chains 9



### represent about 60 percent of a manufacturer’s 10



### costs. That’s 60 times more than electri city. 11


### Over the past four years, American factories have 12


### been disrupted by typhoons in Thailand, 13


### hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, droughts in 14


### Texas, tornadoes in Kentucky, falling water 15


### levels across the Great Lakes, and flooding in 16



### the Northeast. This i s part of a wave of severe 17



### weather that from 2011 to 2013 cost our economy 18



### more than $ 200 billion. Cargo ships crossing the 19


### Great Lakes are carrying less cargo to avoid 20


### running aground, ports are preparing for more 21


### hurricanes and rising sea levels, highwa ys and 22

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### bridges are subject to more frequent delays, and 1


### cargo trains detoured during last winter’s storms 2



### took months to arrive at their factories. 3


### Together, these events are shutting down or 4


### slowing down plants for hours, days, sometimes 5



### weeks at a time, and this is actually quite new. 6


### Manufacturing plants across all industries have 7


### experienced four unexpected disruptions each 8


### year, on average. These are caused by equipment 9


### failures, power outages, absence of key 10



### personnel, and severe weather. Together , those 11



### four outages cost them about 20 hours of 12


### production. 13


### With the frequency and intensity of 14


### severe weather increasing, so are production 15


### delays and disruptions. An auto plant in Indiana 16


### that rarely lost production to severe weather 17



### lost four days of production last winter alone. 18



### That’s $ 50 million of lost production. 19


### Leading employers here in Pittsburgh have 20


### begun reporting these risks to their 21



### stockholders. PPG, US Steel, Heinz have all 22

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### reported about how severe weather is affecting 1


### their suppl y chains, or they disrupted their 2


### business. But really, to appreciate what climate 3


### change could do to manufacturers, it’s really 4


### important to understand that the very things that 5


### make supply chains efficient, that make American 6


### manufacturers profitable, a re the very 7


### characteristics that make their supply chain so 8


### vulnerable to climate change. 9



### American manufacturers are efficient 10


### because of just

- in

- time inventory, which means 11


### that you maintain only a certain amount of parts 12


### in your plant at one time. Tha t saves them 80 13


### percent of their space costs. It cuts their 14


### labor costs by half, but it means that a parts 15



### factory or an auto assembly plant has only three 16


### or four hours of parts in their facility at one 17


### time. So if the trucks that supply that factory 18



### ar e delayed four or five hours that assembly 19


### plant shuts down, and when it shuts down, it 20



### loses about $ 1.25 million per hour on average. 21


### So here in Pittsburg, Behr , Alcoa, PPG 22

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### are huge auto suppliers across the region. There 1


### are 22 assembly plants here, Mi chigan, Ohio, 2


### Indiana alone, and literally thousands of auto 3


### suppliers. They’re heavily dependent on a supply 4



### chain that stretches across the world. Because 5


### of just

- in

- time manufacturing, even a half day 6


### shutdown in shipping can shut down a plant. 7



### Suppl y chains are also global, which 8



### means that if there’s a hurricane in Norfolk, it 9


### shuts down plants in the Midwest. If there is a 10


### typhoon in Thailand, it can shut them down. PPG, 11


### a major employer here in the city, saw its 12


### operations disrupted substantiall y by Thailand 13



### floods in 2011. 14


### Using the auto plants as an example, if 15


### it costs an assembly plant which produces about 16



### 300,000 cars each year and employs about 3000 17


### workers, if it costs the assembly plant $1.25 18


### million to shut down for just one hour becaus e of 19


### climate change

- caused severe weather, what does 20


### it cost that plant with

-- oh, sorry. 21


### Thank you very much for your time. 22

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### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 1



### MS. ESHER: That's actually the

-- 2


### MR. DOYLE: Yeah. The blinking red. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Yeah, ye ah. It flashes 4


### yellow when you have a minute to go, and then it 5



### will turn red

-- 6


### MR. DOYLE: If you'd turn it to me so we 7



### could see it because I couldn't see it. 8



### MR. KOERBER: You couldn't see it? 9



### MR. DOYLE: Yeah. 10



### MS. ESHER: I'm sorry. 11



### MR. DOYLE: That's okay. 12


### MR. KOERBER: My apologies. 13



### MR. DOYLE: Yeah

. 14



### T he EPA rates will cost an assembly plant 15


### less over a course of a year than it would cost 16


### them to lose one hour of production. That’s what 17


### I was trying to say at the last, but thank you. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 19



### Mr. Dixon? 20



### MR. DIXON: Great. Hello. M

- a

- r

- k, D

- i

21



### x

- o

- n. 22

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### My name is Mark Dixon, and I’m a 1



### filmmaker and citizen, activist. I have looked 2


### at, through my film work, environmental issues in 3


### all 50 states. I have six main po ints to share 4


### with you today. 5


### Point number one, thank you. Thank you 6


### for holding this public hearing and for listening 7


### to our comments. Few things will matter as much 8


### in the course of human history as the climate 9


### change policies that we choose to create and 10


### implement today. 11


### Point number two, go further than you 12


### think you can. This plan does not go far enough 13


### in reducing carbon dioxide emissions. Indeed, 14



### rate

– based emissions restrictions create a 15


### massive loophole allowing infinite emissions so 16



### long as we emit more efficiently. Who are we 17


### kidding? When you confront the laws of physics, 18


### there are no prizes for doing the best you can, 19


### no prizes for economic viability. The only prize 20


### goes to the civilization that gets to zero 21


### greenhouse gas emissions bef ore we run out of 22

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### space in the atmosphere. We’ll get that prize if 1


### we set that bar high enough to galvanize the 2


### genius of a generation towards such a noble 3


### cause, but this plan does not set the bar that 4


### high. In its present form, your plan. Short

5



### term e conomic viability in exchange for my future 6


### and my children’s future. Why choose anemic 7


### change at the expense of inspiration and deep 8


### innovation, at the expense of reality, and at the 9


### expense of the moral high ground? 10


### Point number three, natural gas is n ot a 11


### bridge fuel. Natural gas as a path to climate 12


### stability is a nonstarter. When you burn it, you 13


### get CO2, and when it leaks, it’s much worse than 14


### CO2. If this is a bridge fuel, then show me the 15


### plans for the bridge. We need to look at fuel 16



### sources t hat reduce our greenhouse gas emissions 17


### dramatically from coal, and the very fact that 18



### there is a debate about whether the full life 19


### cycle of natural gas emits more or less than that 20


### of coal proves to me that we can accept neither. 21


### Point number four, expo rted carbon 22

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### emissions are just as bad as local ones. States 1


### that export fossil fuel should count the 2


### greenhouse gas emissions impacts of those exports 3


### against their progress towards the targets set 4


### forth in your rule, particularly if the exports 5



### go to loc ations outside the jurisdiction of this 6



### proposed rule. 7


### Point number five, industry will complain 8



### -- except for you. Industry tends to complain 9


### about how regulations are hard or impossible to 10


### meet until they’re forced to comply with them. 11



### It’s virtuall y their obligation to do so. Your 12


### obligation and the reason we’re here today is to 13


### develop the boundaries for what we find 14


### acceptable and then require industry to work 15


### within those boundaries. When industry 16


### complains, you must ask how those complaints 17



### st and up against the well

- being of countless 18


### future generations. 19


### Point number six, don’t play chicken with 20


### our climate. Our nation’s approach to climate 21


### change feels like an epic game of chicken. 22

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### Humanity is in a car with our foot on the gas, 1


### accelerating towards a brick wall of climate 2


### catastrophe, meanwhile, we are debating whether 3



### to let up on the gas by a quarter or half an 4


### inch. It’s time to take our foot off the gas 5


### pedal and put it on the brake. We only get one 6


### chance in a healthy planet and every decision we 7



### make takes us closer to or further from that 8


### opportunity. Why risk such beauty? Why risk 9


### such a gift on a juvenile game of chicken? 10


### That completes my six points. In 11


### summary, I thank you for your time and 12


### consideration. I encourage you to go further 13


### than you think you can, because your decisions on 14



### this issue must stand the test of time. Natural 15


### gas is not a bridge fuel if its merits are 16


### debatable. Exported carbon emissions are just as 17


### bad as local ones. And finally, industry will 18



### compla in, but you have a professional and moral 19


### responsibility to ensure that your policies do 20


### not play chicken with our climate. Thank you. 21


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, Mr. Dixon. 22

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### I’ll ask the panelists if they have any 1


### questions. 2


### I actually did for Mr. Doyle. You 3



### referred to a study that you had done. If you 4



### could submit that to our docket

-- 5



### MR. DOYLE: Absolutely. 6



### MR. KOERBER:

-- for our rule making, 7



### that would be helpful. 8



### MR. DOYLE: Great. 9



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both. 10



### I’d next like to c all Lora Chamberlain 11


### and Jill Paulus. My apologies for any 12


### mispronunciation

. 13



### MS. ESHER: She forgives us. She 14


### forgives you. 15


### MR. KOERBER: I’m sure you will correct 16



### me. 17


### Extra copies? 18



### MS. ESHER: Yeah . I read the testimonies 19


### and the petitions. 20



### MR. KO ERBER: Okay. Is that an extra? 21



### DR. CHAMBERLAIN: (Inaudible) 22

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### MR. KOERBER: Okay. You want to share 1


### one with our recorder? That would be helpful. 2


### DR. CHAMBERLAIN: Oh, should I give it to 3



### this one? 4



### MR. KOERBER: If you have an extra. 5



### DR. CHAMBERLAIN : I just have all that 6



### for you. 7



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. Then we’ll take

-- 8



### we’ll keep that. Thank you. 9



### DR. CHAMBERLAIN: May I ask you a 10


### question? Those are petitions signed, so those 11



### will be all documented as

-- 12


### MR. KOERBER: Those will be provided

-- 13



### included in our rule

- making record. Thank you. 14



### DR. CHAMBERLAIN: Is that good enough? 15



### MR. KOERBER: Ms. Chamberlain, you can go 16



### first. 17



### DR. CHAMBERLAIN: Okay, great. So I’m 18



### Dr. Chamberlain, Dr. Lora Chamberlain. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 20



### DR. CHAMBE RLAIN: L

- o

- r

- a, C

- h

- a

- m

- b

- e

- r

21



### l

- a

- i

- n, and I am from Chicago, Illinois and I 22

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### represent Frack Free Illinois. We are a 1


### statewide environmental organization of thousands 2


### of members, and today specifically, I am 3


### representing over a thousand members that have 4


### signed this petitions that are in front of you. 5



### While members of Frack Free Illinois 6


### appreciate that President Obama and the EPA are 7


### attempting to finally address our carbon 8


### emissions from existing power plants, we are 9


### extremely disheartened that all o f the evidence 10


### of the planetary risk of runaway climate change 11



### has not been translated into a draft Clean Power 12


### Plan that actually takes the threat seriously. 13


### We are calling for an urgent redraft of this 14



### plan. 15


### Many analysts are calling this plan, 16



### arbitra ry, ineffective, and political. Your 17


### criteria for reduction goals are unnecessarily 18


### complicated, and the abatement standards are 19


### flipped upside down. States that already have 20


### significant clean energy mixes have to do a 21


### higher percentage of abatements tha n states that 22

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### burn large amounts of coal. Concessions were 1


### obviously made to the coal states in the state

2



### by

- state requirements. All we can say is get 3


### ready for the lawsuits and stop wasting precious 4



### time. 5



### The Onion described the Clean Power Plan 6



### the be st in their headlines, “New EPA regulations 7


### would force power plants to find 30 percent more 8



### loopholes by 2030.” We are saddened beyond words 9



### that President Obama and the EPA have chosen to 10


### nip around the edges of this carbon problem 11


### rather than embracing the science of climate 12


### change and promoting policies that will actually 13


### make a significant impact on the climate. 14


### The number one danger of inadequately 15


### dealing with carbon pollution is the accelerated 16


### warming of the Arctic seas, permafrost and 17



### wetlands, and the release of vast stores of 18


### methane from frozen methane hydrates in the sea. 19


### It’s called the clathrate gun. And this was 20


### beautifully illustrated in a video recently 21



### called Last Hours . I’ve given you the link 22

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### there. 1



### We must take heed of what is ha ppening in 2


### the Arctic. The Arctic Methane Emergency Group 3


### has been sounding the alarm that Arctic methane 4


### is the global warming carbon bomb. Please keep 5


### in mind that methane is 86 times more potent as a 6



### greenhouse gas than CO 2 

### over a 20

- year period. 7



### The groups report that the Arctic is presently 8


### the site of 40 percent of the world’s carbon, and 9


### it is already a substantial source of methane 10



### release to the atmosphere. 11



### The group reports that the methane 12


### emissions are increasing as the Arctic is warming 13



### s everal times faster than the rest of our planet. 14


### The group says that if the Arctic continues to 15


### warm, then methane release will greatly increase 16



### and will feed back to accelerate the rate of 17


### global warming. Unstoppable runaway Arctic 18


### warming will lead to unstoppable runaway global 19


### warming. 20


### The group is warning the world that the 21


### warming of the Arctic must stop. Vast releases 22

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### of methane from the seafloors were the cause of 1


### the Permian mass extinction 250 million years 2



### ago, so the precedent of runaway cl imate change 3



### due to methane release has already occurred at 4


### least once on this planet. The Swedish polar 5



### research group reported on July 28th that there 6


### is presently a methane mega flare being released 7


### from the Siberian Sea slopes. Has the clathrate 8



### gun already started to shoot? 9


### The teams of scientists hypothesize that 10



### over the last decade, a stream of warmer Atlantic 11


### Ocean water has been flowing along the Siberian 12


### ocean sea slope and destabilizing the methane 13


### ice. We are extremely concerned about thi s and 14


### we are asking you to pay attention to what’s 15


### going on in the Arctic. If we are on the 16


### precipice of the massive release of methane in 17


### the Arctic, then we might be facing the sixth 18


### mass extinction on this planet and that will 19


### certainly involve the hum an race. 20



### This science is what members of Frack 21



### Free Illinois would like President Obama and the 22

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### EPA to pay attention. So, our biggest 1


### disappointments is that the plan is too little, 2


### too late. We recommend that you follow Sierra 3



### Club’s recommendation for 50 percent reduction by 4


### 2050. We ask that you phase out dirty coal

– fired 5


### power plants. We ask you to reject the reliance 6


### on frack gas. Frack gas is not a bridge fuel, 7


### and there is just far too much methane being 8



### released from the entire infrastructure. Remove 9



### nuclear subsidies from the carbon rules, and 10


### prioritize and accelerate the deployment of 11


### renewable energy and energy efficiency by 12


### considering a carbon tax and rebate. 13



### And we thank you for

-- all the rest of 14



### the comments are in this letter. We thank you 15


### for this opportunity. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. And thank you 17


### for the petitions and the information you 18


### provided. We’ll make sure that gets in the 19



### record. 20



### Ms. Paulus? 21



### MS. PAULUS: Paulus. Jill Paulus, J

- i

- l

22

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### l, P

- a

- u

- l

- u

- s. 1


### So this is my Cl ean Power Plan comment 2


### for today. To cut carbon by approximately 30 3


### percent is a good beginning point, but we must 4


### consider doing better. Methane and nuclear waste 5



### are not mentioned in the Clean Power Plan, nor 6


### the carbon we export to other countries whi ch, 7


### after being extracted here, is not counted in the 8


### 30 percent for the USA. This plan falls short 9


### because extraction and development of dirty 10


### energy is not curtailed. 11



### Clean energy development should be 12


### financially supported in this plan, as most 13



### Americ ans, shown by recent studies would pay more 14



### for clean solar and wind. To be realistic, a no 15



### carbon future needs to be the goal now. Germany 16


### is leading the way and we should be as ambitions. 17


### The expense of climate change storms, fires, and 18


### rising seas ar e financially greater than clean 19


### energy development. Nuclear propped up, as it is 20



### in Illinois

-- that’s where I’m from

– and new 21


### plants, as in Georgia, are funded by rate and 22

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### taxpayers. 1


### As I said above, people want to pay for 2


### wind and solar. Propping up old nuclear plants 3


### and developing new will not only suppress real 4


### clean energy growth, but will cost more in terms 5


### of carbon pollution. I say nuclear will grow 6


### carbon pollution because it is considered clean, 7



### and at least in Illinois where I live, thes e 8


### clean credits are proposed to be traded so we can 9


### increase dirty coal mining. 10



### Also in Illinois, we face the 11


### industrialization of horizontal fracking, which 12



### is methane

- laden. Not only are fracking and coal 13


### mining depleting and polluting our climate and 14


### water, it appears the mining will involve 15


### horizontal fracking of coal seams. This dirty 16


### extraction can create coal seam fires along with 17


### carbon pollution. All horizontal fracking 18


### creates methane leaks and should be prohibited. 19



### To protect people from car bon pollution is only a 20


### beginning, therefore, fossil

- free extraction must 21



### be considered in terms of all methane 22

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### ramifications as well. Methane adds more to 1


### global climate change than does carbon. 2



### To sum up, all carbon and methane needs 3


### to stay in the gro und, whether natural gas, oil 4


### or coal. To export these, which is intended, is 5


### to increase over the 30 percent in the Clean 6


### Power Plan. We must reduce consumption and use 7


### our stockpiles judiciously while we grow wind, 8



### solar and other clean energy sources. 9


### I want to thank you for this time and I 10



### want to thank the people before me who gave 11


### substantiation to my comments which were not as 12


### well substantiated. Thank you. 13



### MR. KOERBER: Well, I want to thank you 14


### both for traveling so far to be with us this 15



### morn ing. I really appreciate it. 16


### Let me ask if the other panel members

– 17



### MS. CHAMBERLAIN: We didn’t drive. 18


### MR. KOERBER: You didn’t drive? Okay. 19


### Have a safe trip home. 20


### Next I’d like to call Stephanie Bilenko 21


### and Elaine LaBalme to testify. 22

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### MS. LABALM E: Shall I go first? 1


### MR. KOERBER: Ms. Bilenko, when you’re 2



### ready. 3



### MS. LABALME: Oh, I’m Elaine LaBalme. 4



### MR. KOERBER: Oh, okay. 5


### MS. LABALME: Okay. My name is Elaine 6



### LaBalme, E

- l

- a

- i

- n

- e, L

- a

- B

- a

- l

- m

- e. I’m here 7


### today speaking as a private citizen. I do work 8



### for PennFuture. I support the EPA’s proposed 9


### standard to limit carbon pollution from power 10


### plants and applaud EPA’s flexible approach to 11


### state implementation. 12



### The clear and present danger from a 13


### rapidly changing climate creates an urgency t o 14


### act and we support implementation of the rule. 15


### The Clean Power Plan will reduce power plant 16


### carbon pollution by 30 percent by 2030. In doing 17


### so, it will help us avoid thousands of premature 18



### deaths, hundreds of thousands of asthma attacks, 19



### lower electri c bills, and lead to between 55 20



### billion and 93 billion in health and climate 21



### benefits. 22

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### The benefits of cleaner air are clear to 1


### the residents of southwestern Pennsylvania who 2


### have struggled with carbon pollution largely from 3



### coal

- fired power plants for fa r too long. That 4


### said, cities including Philadelphia and 5


### Harrisburg are not immune to poor air quality, as 6


### noted in the American Lung Association’s annual 7


### State of the Air report. As a society, we bear 8



### the externalized healthcare costs of those 9


### suffering from asthma and other respiratory 10


### diseases and heart disease, many of these 11


### illnesses triggered by carbon pollution and the 12


### attendant smog brought about by a warming 13


### climate. This is an unfair burden to place on 14



### our citizens and the Clean Power Plan will have 15


### the dual purpose of improving public health as it 16



### alleviates healthcare costs. 17


### I’m going to divert from my prepared 18


### comment for just a moment to say that myself, my 19



### husband, and our 12

- year

- old son moved out here 20


### from California seven years ago, and I am 21


### absolutely staggered by the amount of children on 22

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### our street that have asthma. I didn’t know any 1


### kids with asthma in northern California. My son 2


### has suffered asthma attacks since we got to 3


### Pittsburgh, and I have developed asthma here as 4



### an adult he re in Pittsburgh. We need to act on 5



### this. 6


### Among the tools available to Pennsylvania 7


### to me the EPA’s carbon rule is energy efficiency, 8



### the least cost resource. And already, we are 9


### seeing utilities switch from coal

- fired 10


### generation to natural gas generati on, and that 11


### gas is a cleaner

- burning fossil fuel. While this 12


### is true, we cannot take our eye off of methane 13


### leakage associated with natural gas production. 14


### Methane, a greenhouse gas 86 times more potent 15


### than CO2 in the first 20 years after it’s 16



### released into the atmosphere could undo the 17



### benefits of the coal

- to

- gas switch if it’s not 18



### captured and controlled, and the tools currently 19



### exist to do this in a cost

- effective manner. We 20


### need to usher in an era of renewable energy in 21


### Pennsylvania, with solar and wind energy 22

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### providing the climate and health benefits we need 1


### in the long term. Setting limits on the carbon 2


### pollution causing climate change will spur 3


### investment and innovation in both energy 4


### efficiency and clean energy technologies. New 5



### solar and wind capacity will not only bring more 6


### clean, domestic energy to the market, but recent 7


### modeling has shown that construction of these 8


### resources creates more jobs than building the 9


### equivalent fossil fuel capacity. 10



### The real economic risk here is inaction. 11



### Fr om 2011 to 2013 alone, damages from extreme 12



### weather events in the US have exceeded 200 13


### billion. We must get this right now. The time 14


### to act is right now. Thank you for your time. 15



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you very much. 16



### Ms. Bilenko? 17


### MS. BILENKO: Stephanie , S

- t

- e

- p

- h

- a

- n

- i

18


### e, Bilenko is B, as in boy, i

- l

- e

- n

- k

- o. Came 19


### from Illinois along with my other Illinois 20



### fracktivists. 21



### The Clean Power Plan proposed reduced 22

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### carbon emissions on a national basis, and that’s 1


### rolled up into the state standards, 26 perce nt 2



### below 2005 by 2020, and 30 percent by 2030. You 3


### have set modest and achievable targets which are 4


### not nearly enough according to the new report by 5


### the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, 6



### the IPCC. 7


### The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate 8



### Change concludes that global emissions have risen 9


### to unprecedented level despite a growing number 10


### of policies to reduce climate change. Emissions 11


### grew more quickly between 2000 and 2010 than in 12


### each of the three previous decades. 13


### Anthropogenic greenhouse gas em issions grew at an 14



### average annual rate of 2.2 percent between 2000 15


### and 2010 compared with the growth of 1.3 percent 16


### per year over the period of 1970 to 2000. CO2 17



### emissions from fossil fuels and industrial 18


### processes contributed 65 percent of global 19



### greenho use gas emissions in 2010. 20


### This is a quote from Ottmar Edenhofer. 21



### He was a co

- chair of the Working Group III on the 22

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### IPCC. He says, “Climate policies in line with 1


### the two degrees goal need to aim for substantial 2



### emission reductions. There is a clear m essage 3


### from science: To avoid dangerous interference 4


### with the climate system, we need to move away 5



### from business as usual.” 6


### The scenarios developed by the IPCC 7


### suggest that to have a likely chance of limiting 8


### the increase in global mean temperatures to t wo 9


### degrees Celsius, that means lowering the 10



### greenhouse gases by 40 to 70 percent

-- 40 11


### percent 2010 to mid

- century 70 percent, to near

12



### zero by the end of the century. 13


### One can have doubts if these targets are 14


### realistic. However daunting they may seem, w e 15


### really do not have a choice. The EPA and 16


### President Obama have to muster the political will 17



### to hold carbon emitters’ feet to the fire. A 18


### couple of those are Chevron, ExxonMobil, 19


### ConocoPhillips and Peabody Energy. You got to 20


### stop fooling Mother Nature. I mean, pigs

-- 21


### earrings on a pig are just that. 22

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### So we ask you to phase out dirty coal

1


### fired plants, as my colleague said before; reject 2


### the reliance on frack gas; and I do have a 3


### compendium of scientific and medical report to 4


### hand in. It is peer

- revi ewed and it is

-- it 5



### covers all the bases of, let’s see, air 6


### pollution, water contamination, engineering 7


### problems, radioactive releases, occupational 8



### health and safety hazards, earthquakes, flood 9


### risks. So we want you to reject the reliance on 10



### frack gas, remove nuclear subsidies from the 11


### carbon rules because it’s just kind of based on

– 12


### you know, like building a new reactor that costs 13


### millions and it takes a long time to get it 14



### online, it’s not reliable, there’s shutdowns. I 15


### mean, our water is warming. I just read last 16


### week that Turkey Point in Florida, they relied on 17



### the canal water to circulate and cool the 18



### reactors. The NRC, the Nuclear Regulatory 19


### Commission’s temperature set was 100 degrees, so 20


### they just changed it to 103. So and then there’s 21



### always , you know, Fukushima, Chernobyl, Three 22

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### Mile Island. 1


### I also want you guys to prioritize and 2



### accelerate the deployment of renewable energy and 3


### energy efficiency. The good news is that 4


### renewable energy and energy efficiency 5


### investments create far more jobs per dollar than 6


### fossil fuels, including natural gas. 7


### Specifically, clean energy investment generates 8


### more than three times the number of jobs as the 9


### spending the same amount of money in the fossil 10


### fuel sectors, and the clean energy sector is 11


### growing at a rate nearly double the growth rate 12


### of the overall economy. There is a group

-- not 13



### a group

-- it’s the Solutions Project. They have 14


### solutions for each state, and I gave you the link 15



### to that. 16


### Please take the warnings of the climate 17



### scientists serious ly, throwing off the politics 18



### of the carbon polluters. Develop a plan that 19


### actually impacts climate change, thus helping to 20


### mitigate the serious danger that humanity is 21


### facing. 22

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### And I also have to hand in, and it’s 1


### specific to Pittsburgh since we’re he re, it’s a 2


### map. This comes from the Earth Justice Group, 3


### and it shows all the fracking accidents ; and 4


### there’s a lot in the Pittsburgh area. 5


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. If you’d like 6


### to leave copies of those with us, we’d be happy 7



### to accept them. 8



### MS. BILEN KO: Yes. 9



### DR

. CHAMBERLAIN : Thank you. 10



### MS. BILENKO: Thank you. 11



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. 12


### Next I’d like to call Christopher Maxie 13



### and Jay Apt. 14


### MR. MAXIE: My name is Christopher Maxie, 15



### C

- h

- r

- i

- s

- t

- o

- p

- h

- e

- r, M

- a

- x

- i

- e. I am with the 16



### National Wild life Federation. 17


### I am speaking today as a native of 18



### southeastern Ohio. Included in the tri

- state 19


### region of Kentucky and West Virginia, my areas 20


### home to some of the largest coal deposits in 21


### North America. I’m going to start by saying, as 22

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### a proud son of A ppalachia that I understand the 1


### complex history of coal country. There 2


### generations of workers labor in the mines that 3


### their fathers have labored in an attempt to build 4



### a better future for the children. From the old 5


### mine wars to the days’ battles over env ironmental 6


### impacts, it is not uncommon to see entire 7


### communities divided by an industry that is once 8


### their livelihood and their poison. 9


### The reckless behavior of these companies 10


### is not impacting Appalachia in a vacuum. At 11



### large, coal

- fired power plants are responsible 12


### for 40 percent of America’s carbon pollution. 13


### This is having devastating effects on the Earth’s 14


### climate and is increasing the frequency of 15


### violent and erratic weather. It is severely 16


### compromising Ohio’s fishing and hunting heritage 17


### by inc reasing invasive species, warming waters 18


### for cold water fish like walleye, and increasing 19


### harmful algae blooms otherwise known as HABs. 20


### It is compromising our ecosystems, our 21


### food systems, and our public health. In fact, 22

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### according to the American Lung Association, 1


### nearly half of all Americans are now living in 2



### areas where air is unsafe to breathe. Put 3


### simply, the unlimited dumping of carbon emissions 4



### by coal

- fired power plants is unethical and needs 5



### to stop. 6


### For too long, the CEOs of these big 7



### pollu ters have deceptively presented the American 8


### public with the false choice of healthy 9


### communities or a healthy economy. The reality is 10


### that with proper investment, we can have both. 11


### Technologies exist to mandate that these 12


### companies meet responsible carbo n emission 13



### standards, but we cannot afford to wait for the 14


### day that they prioritize community welfare over 15


### their bottom lines. That is why we have 16


### government regulatory agencies. 17



### The Clean Power Plan would drive 18


### investment, allow flexibility for states a nd 19


### municipalities, and would proactively alleviate 20


### billions of dollars of government spending on 21



### climate

- related disaster relief efforts. I want 22

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### to thank the EPA for recognizing that our current 1



### staff

-- path is unsustainable and for taking 2



### bold, common s ense steps to secure a safe, stable 3


### future for the next generation. Speaking as a 4


### representative of the National Wildlife 5


### Federation, I want to publicly state that there 6


### is no greater threat to the future of wildlife or 7


### to the future of our own species th an our 8


### changing climate. And with that, thank you. 9


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 10



### Dr. Apt? 11


### DR. APT: Thank you. My name is Jay Apt, 12



### J

- a

- y, A

- p

- t. At Carnegie Mellon University I’m 13


### a full professor in the The Tepper School of 14


### Business and in the engine ering college. I’m 15



### also co

- director of the Carnegie Mellon 16


### Electricity Industry Center. 17


### I commend the EPA for searching for 18


### flexible ways to reach the goals of reducing the 19


### atmospheric concentration of pollutants including 20


### carbon dioxide, enhancing ene rgy security, 21


### maintaining electric reliability, and controlling 22

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### costs. The proposed rules are very likely to 1


### decrease forms of pollution that are even more 2


### immediate issues than greenhouse gas control. 3



### A recent peer

- reviewed research paper in 4



### the New Eng land Journal of Medicine shows that 5



### even well after the Clean Air Act of 1990, 6


### further reductions of particulate matter would 7


### greatly increase life expectancy. The Nation 8



### Academy has reported that, quote, the aggregate 9


### human health damages associated with emissions 10



### from coal

- fired facilities in 2005 were 11


### approximately $ 62 billion. Reducing these costs 12


### at the same time that greenhouse gases are 13


### controlled is a great strength of the proposed 14



### rule and should not be dropped. 15


### The flexibility in the rule is 16



### pr aiseworthy. Rather than mandating a particular 17



### technology, the rule allows the states to choose 18


### what is most appropriate for them, whether it be 19


### nuclear, renewables, efficiency, or fossil fuels 20


### with greenhouse gas capture. I’ve spent much of 21



### the past dec ade studying renewable power. We’ve 22

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### just published a 328

- page book on it. Wind 1


### currently provides about four percent of all the 2


### electric power in the USA. In my view, wind can 3


### certainly grow to provide perhaps 20 percent of 4


### electric power before issues arising from land 5


### use are likely to restrict further wind plants. 6


### Solar may grow greatly from its present 0.2 7



### percent, one

- five hundredth of all electric 8


### power, to perhaps five percent. Low pollution 9


### nuclear power now supplies 20 percent of our 10



### electrici ty. 11


### That leaves a big gap between our needs 12



### and the 40 or 50 percent that nuclear and 13


### renewables together can supply. It’s simply not 14


### in the cards to generate enough power without 15


### using America’s abundant coal and gas resources. 16



### But the issue with coa l and natural gas is this. 17


### Long before we run out of fossil fuels, we’ll run 18


### out of atmosphere in which to dump their 19


### combustion products like carbon dioxide. But I 20


### have to say, doomsday predictions of coal’s 21


### demise are overblown. In fact, Bloomberg New s 22

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### reported on July 16th that US imports of coal are 1


### going to increase 26 percent this year over last. 2


### That’s imports. 3



### The EPA’s proposed rules allow the use of 4



### America’s reserves of carbon

- based fuels without 5


### emitting much carbon dioxide into the air. 6


### That’s a big advantage. The proposal also allows 7


### the use of uranium, transformed into energy by 8


### bright engineers like those at Westinghouse 9


### Nuclear here in Pittsburgh. 10



### I teach in a business school. I believe 11


### in America’s industries’ ability to innova te when 12


### there’s a reason to do so. We did exactly that 13


### in response to the Clean Air Act of 1970. The 14


### number of patents filed for sulfur dioxide 15


### pollution control rose by a factor of 20 after 16


### the rules were promulgated, and we profited by 17


### selling that tec hnology abroad. 18


### EPA’s proposed rule will foster 19


### innovation and create jobs. Coal power plant CO2 20


### pollution control is feasible and the first 21


### plants are being constructed at scale now. 22

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### Southern Company’s 582

- megawatt Kemper plant will 1


### be in operation w ithin the next year, as will a 2



### 110

- megawatt plant in Canada. Just this month, 3


### NRG Energy announced that they are moving forward 4



### on their 240

- megawatt coal plant with CO2 capture 5



### in Texas. 6


### EPA’s proposed rule provides the proper 7


### incentives for low polluti on power and the 8


### flexibility for states to reduce pollution in 9


### sensible ways. It should be adopted. Thank you. 10


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 11


### Panel members have any questions? 12


### Questions? No? 13



### Thank you both. 14


### And Dr. Apt, I’ll not that your testimony 15


### had a graphic in it as well, so we’ll make sure 16


### this gets in the rule

- making record. 17



### DR. APT: Thank you very much. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 19


### Next I’d like to call Pat Lupo and Leah 20



### Schade. 21


### Again, my apologies for any 22

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### mispronunciations. 1



### DR. SCHADE : Sc hade. Yeah, that’s okay. 2



### MR. KOERBER: Schade. Thank you. 3



### MS LUPO: Pat Lupo, P

- a

- t, L

- u

- p

- o. My 4


### name is Pat Lupo and I’m here today representing 5


### the Benedictine Sisters of Erie, Pennsylvania. 6



### I believe that faith communities all over 7



### the world are called to demonstrate their 8



### commitment to environmental action and to do it 9


### in partnership with environmental organizations, 10



### their local communities, and civic and 11


### governmental entities. Speaking from this faith 12


### perspective, our call to stewardship and t he 13


### moral imperative of doing no harm to creation, I 14


### urge you to enforce emission guidelines that will 15


### finally limit carbon pollution. 16



### The time to act is now. We cannot 17


### continue to take a step backward each time there 18


### is pressure to do so. Our best evide nce 19


### indicates that power plants are the largest 20


### stationary source of carbon emissions in the 21


### United States, and a major contributor to climate 22

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### change. 1



### I do not speak as an expert on carbon 2


### pollution or climate change, but I do speak as an 3



### advocate for p eople, present and future, and for 4



### our wonderful planet. In the words of Pope 5


### Francis, I remind you, “Creation is a gift. It 6


### is a wonderful gift that God has given us, so we 7



### care for it and we use it for the benefit of all, 8


### always with respect and gratit ude.” 9


### The tradition of Catholic social teaching 10


### offers a developing and distinctive perspective 11



### on environmental issues. I believe that the 12


### following themes drawn from the tradition are 13


### integral dimensions of ecological responsibility, 14



### and they are: A God

- centered and sacramental 15


### view of the universe which grounds human 16


### accountability for the fate of the Earth; a 17


### consistent respect for human life which extends 18


### to respect for all creation; a world view 19


### affirming the ethical significance of global 20



### interd ependence and the common good; an ethic of 21


### solidarity promoting cooperation and a just 22

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### structure of sharing in the world community; an 1


### understanding of the universal purpose of created 2


### things which requires equitable use of the 3


### Earth’s resources; an option for the poor which 4


### gives passion to the quest for an equitable and 5


### sustainable world; a conception of authentic 6


### development which offers the direction for 7


### progress that respects human dignity and the 8


### limits of material growth. 9



### As Benedictines, we are tau ght to listen 10



### with the ear of our heart. When we do

-- when we 11



### all do this, then our view of the Earth will 12


### bring us to openness and compassion for the 13


### Earth. Our religious traditions call us to 14


### stewardship, a call tied to environmental 15


### responsibility an d civic engagement. 16


### As you consider emission guidelines to 17


### provide carbon limits on fossil fuel power 18


### plants, I urge you to set limits that actually do 19


### the job of reducing pollution and global climate 20


### change. The proposed limits are a very small 21


### beginni ng, but the proposed will

-- rule will 22

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### help carbon pollution, uphold human life, and 1



### demonstrate a greater respect for the planet. It 2



### needs to be done and it needs to be done now and 3


### not in some future decade. Thank you. 4



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 5



### Revere nd Schade? 6



### DR. SCHADE: The Reverend Dr. Leah 7



### Schade, spelled L

- e

- a

- h, S

- c

- h

- a

- d

- e. 8



### First
, I want to thank the EPA and 9


### Administrator McCarthy for paying serious 10



### attention to the issue of carbon emissions and 11


### their deleterious effect on our planet’s 12



### atm osphere. I commend you for giving citizens 13


### the opportunity to be heard on this important 14



### issue. 15


### The proposed rule is well researched with 16


### solid background in science regarding greenhouse 17


### gases, their effect on the planet, and their 18


### negative impact on t he public health. It offers 19


### a wide range of options for states and power 20


### generators to meet the new requirements to reduce 21



### greenhouse gases. 22

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### As a pastor who has particular concern 1


### for the least of these, I was especially pleased 2


### to see attention given to the health of children 3


### when weighing the input of stakeholders. I come 4



### today on behalf of myself, my husband and two 5


### young children, my congregation, United in Christ 6


### Lutheran Church in Lewisburg, the Upper 7


### Susquehanna Synod of the Evangelical Lutheran 8



### C hurch in America, the Lutheran Advocacy Ministry 9


### of Pennsylvania, and the Interfaith Sacred Earth 10


### Coalition of the Susquehanna Valley to express my 11



### support for the new EPA rule to reduce carbon 12


### pollution even while it is under attack from 13


### industry groups t hat want to weaken this life

14


### saving measure. 15



### As a clergy person, you can be sure of my 16


### backing of this proposal. However, as a member 17


### of my Senate’s task force on slick water 18


### hydraulic fracturing which spent two years 19


### studying the ethical and moral issue s surrounding 20


### fracking, and as a member of several 21


### environmental groups that study and bear witness 22

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### to the harmful effects of the shale gas industry 1


### in our state and across the country, I must raise 2


### concerns that are not addressed in EPA’s proposed 3



### rules. 4


### Three years ago, I gave testimony in 5


### support of the EPA’s mercury and air toxins rule, 6


### which at the time was a strong measure for 7


### reducing poisons from the coal industry. An 8


### unexpected and harmful effect of this rule, 9


### however, is that it helped to pave the way for 10


### the shale gas industry to establish itself in our 11


### state and commit untold damage to our air, water, 12


### state and private lands, and public health. I 13



### fear that this new rule on carbon emissions will 14


### only further enable the shale gas and oil 15



### indus tries to secure its hold in Pennsylvania and 16


### do still more damage to ecological and human 17



### health. 18



### Yes, the new EPA rules will force 19


### Pennsylvania to reduce its air pollution and burn 20


### less coal, but how we adjust to less coal will 21



### make all the difference. If we build new green 22

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### energy infrastructure and increase energy 1


### efficiency, our air will be cleaner and 2


### greenhouse gases will be reduced. But if we 3


### replace coal with fracked gas, we will only be 4


### making our air and atmosphere worse. These 5



### rules, as writ ten, will only codify the 6


### transition from coal to gas that is already 7


### underway. As well, the rule gives implicit 8


### consent to burn more trash, tires, coal sludge 9


### and other forms of toxic waste for electricity. 10


### So while I believe the proposal is a good firs t 11


### step, it is not only inadequate, it will have the 12


### unintended consequence of replacing one dirty 13


### fuel with many others. Methane is a greenhouse 14



### gas even more potent than carbon. The rule does 15


### not address total lifecycle emissions from 16



### methane gas

- fired plants, including leakage 17


### during production, processing and transmission, 18


### emissions flarings at gas wells, and energy 19


### consumed in production and transport of liquefied 20



### natural gas. Researchers found methane leaks

-- 21


### leak rates of 100 to 1,000 times greate r than EPA 22

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### estimates at well pads in Pennsylvania, and the 1


### EPA’s office of the Inspector General just issued 2


### a report citing the agency’s failures to manage 3


### methane leaks from pipelines. 4


### Instead of promoting a strategy that 5


### perpetuates fossil fuels and fr acking, and make 6


### no mistake, shale gas is a fossil fuel, the 7


### proposed rule should include an aggressive 8


### pursuit of renewables, energy efficiency, and 9


### conservation. The shale gas and oil are not the 10


### solution to carbon pollution in the United 11



### States. They are, in fact, and even worse enemy. 12


### The rule should set absolute reduction targets 13


### for total greenhouse emissions from each state. 14


### Otherwise, emissions will continue to grow as 15


### more energy is consumed. 16


### I urge that the rule be substantially 17



### amended wit h policies that expressly favor 18


### stringent conservation standards, as well as 19


### increasing sourcing of electricity from renewable 20


### energy which is emission free. I am committed to 21


### helping people of faith learn how to do their 22

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### part to care for God’s creation a nd support eco 1


### justice issues. 2


### I call for the EPA to not only stand its 3


### ground with this rule, but to actually strengthen 4


### and expand it in order to put in place the 5


### strongest protections possible to defend public 6



### health , t he fragi le atmosphere of our p lanet
, and 7



### the communities that will bear the cost and 8


### suffering from our addiction to fossil fuels and 9



### greenhouse gases. Thank you. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 11


### Any questions? No? Okay. Thank you 12



### both. 13



### Well, I’m

-- oh, here comes some more 14



### cards. Th ank you. 15



### Next I’d like to call Nikki Silvestri and 16


### Susan Carty. Five minutes each. When it flashes 17


### yellow, you got one minute. 18


### MS. SILVESTRI: Good morning. 19


### MR. KOERBER: Good morning. 20


### MS. SILVESTRI: My name is Nikki 21



### Silvestri and I’m the executive director of Green 22

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### for All, which is a national environmental 1


### organization working to make sure that vulnerable 2


### populations benefit from the new clean, green 3



### economy. 4



### Green for All supports the EPA carbon 5


### emission standards, as do I. I’m here to say, as 6



### w ell, that people of color, likely minority 7


### voters, also support the EPA clean emission 8


### standards. The problem is that vulnerable 9


### populations, people of color, low income people, 10


### children, the elderly, are disproportionately 11


### affected by climate change, and by carbon 12


### emissions in particular. 13


### Sixty

- eight percent of African

- Americans 14


### live near a coal plant. It affects our health, 15



### it affects our well

- being, and it affects our 16


### ability to make money in ways that are actually 17


### good for our families. When it co mes to climate 18


### change overall, people of color are hit first and 19



### worst because of historical disenfranchisement of 20



### our communities. 21



### Green for All wanted to know once and for 22

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### all whether or not vulnerable populations across 1


### the country, African

- Americans , Latinos and Asian 2


### Americans would support the carbon emission 3


### standards so that there just wouldn’t be any 4



### argument. We wanted to have data and we wanted 5


### to have facts, so we conducted a national poll 6



### last month and I’m here to share the results of 7



### thos e polls with you. 8


### Fifty percent of likely minority voters 9


### across the country believe that the carbon 10


### emission standards are going to increase their 11


### energy prices and are going to cut jobs. 12


### However, 75 percent of those same likely minority 13



### voters also bel ieve that in the long term, the 14


### carbon emission standards are going to make them 15


### healthier, it’s going to spur innovation, and 16


### it’s going to create jobs. So what we found from 17


### the poll is that our folks have a complex 18


### understanding of the carbon emission standards. 19


### They are actually willing to accept short

- term 20


### costs if that’s what it takes so that in the long 21



### term they’ll be healthy. 22

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### What were the most important things to 1



### them when it came to the carbon emission 2


### standards? At the top of the list was tr aining 3


### people who are in the current energy economy in 4



### to the new renewable energy economy. There was a 5


### story of a gentleman in the Midwest who worked 6


### for a coal mining plant. He was put out of a job 7



### because of water shortages and a renewable energy 8



### comp any hired him. Those are the kind of stories 9


### that really impact African Americans, Latinos and 10


### Asian Americans across the country, the assurance 11


### that people who are currently in the economy will 12


### continue to have jobs and likelihood for their 13


### family. 14



### Fina lly, what I wanted to share is why 15


### are the carbon emission standards important at 16


### all. How do likely minority voters actually 17


### process climate change in the environment and 18


### what’s the most important thing to them? At the 19



### very top of the

-- we thought it w as going to be 20


### the economy. But at the very top of the list it 21


### was the moral obligation to leave a healthy 22

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### planet for our children. The plurality actually 1


### said that that was the most important thing to 2


### them. So the morality message hits likely 3


### minority voters and people of color across the 4



### country. 5


### The second thing was jobs and the 6


### economy, and the third thing was health. 7


### So I wanted to share these results just 8


### to let you know that the carbon emission 9


### standards are very, very important to those mos t 10


### impacted by climate change. We’re ready to fight 11


### for it, we’re ready to support it, and we’re 12


### ready to work with the states that we live in to 13


### come up with ways to meet the carbon emission 14



### standards that actually to get to what’s 15


### important to us. Thank you. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 17



### MS. SILVESTRI: I’m also prepared to 18


### leave a copy of the poll with you. 19


### MR. KOERBER: That will be great. We’ll 20


### make sure that gets included in the record for 21


### the rule making. Thank you. 22

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### Ms. Carty? 1



### MS. CARTY: Good mor ning. My name is 2



### Susan Carty, C

- a

- r

- t

- y, and I’m the president of 3


### the League of Women Voters of Pennsylvania for 4


### whom I’m speaking. We thank you sincerely for 5


### the opportunity to speak with you today. But 6


### first I would like to ask you to take a few 7



### secon ds to consider a different world. 8


### Imagine a world where all invisible gases 9


### were infused with color and odor. Imagine the 10


### impact of that. Consider the visual of an 11


### interstate highway snaking across the state as a 12


### massive, thickly

- fogged purple corrido r. Who 13


### would breathe that? You, your children, your 14


### grandchildren, the infirm, the elderly? Who 15



### would? And who would act and who would block 16


### your action? 17


### The League is sensitive to the role that 18


### Pennsylvania plays in carbon dioxide emissions 19



### and the costs that it incurs. We’re the fourth 20


### largest coal producer in the nation. Seventy

21


### five percent of our bituminous coal generates 22

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### over half of the electricity in the country. We 1


### produce 56 percent of Pennsylvania’s energy from 2


### coal, while we export 30 percent. At the same 3


### time, we understand that coal power generating 4


### plants are responsible for approximately 30 5


### percent of carbon emissions. 6


### Coal pollution, carbon pollution has been 7


### identified as the greenhouse gas that 8


### significantly contributes to ca rbon

-- climate 9


### change. That same carbon pollution is 10


### responsible for premature deaths, risks of 11


### asthma, respiratory disease, and hundreds of 12


### thousands of missed work and low activity days. 13



### The costs of these emissions relative to 14


### climate impact are in creasingly daunting for 15


### states and taxpayers. According to the Lung 16


### Association, dirty air intensified by climate 17


### change disproportionately affects low income 18



### communities, as well as children, seniors, and 19



### those who work or play outdoors. 20



### The proposed r ule for existing power 21


### plants is only a first step in fulfilling our 22

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### obligation to protect the health of our residents 1


### while meeting the challenge of climate change. 2


### The League urges the EPA to continue to take 3


### action in regulation of methane emissions as 4


### prescribed in the Climate Action Plan from March 5


### 2014 Strategy to Reduce Methane Emissions

. 6


### Natural gas is primarily methane. 7



### Please note that we also have a link in 8


### our report for you that refers to the Compendium 9


### dated July 10th, 2014 from the Scien tific, 10


### Medical and Media Findings Demonstrating the 11


### Risks and Harms of Fracking. We also have a link 12


### for you to a Colorado investigation that is 13


### concerned about a spike in fetal abnormalities 14


### that are near gas drilling sites. 15


### According to the Intergove rnmental Panel 16


### on Climate Change, methane as a greenhouse gas is 17


### more than 80 times potent as carbon dioxide over 18



### a 20

- year period. Wellheads, pipes, valves, 19


### pressures, and even abandoned wells are releasing 20


### increasing volumes of methane into our 21



### atmosphe re. About 30 percent of all methane 22

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### emissions are derived from natural gas and 1



### petroleum systems. 2


### Best practices and appropriate regulation 3



### must be enacted and enforced to reduce this 4


### greenhouse gas. EPA must assume responsibility 5


### for setting the stan dards to minimize the risk. 6


### On your website, quote, Pound for pound, 7


### the comparative impact of methane on climate 8


### change is more than 20 times greater than carbon 9



### dioxide over a 100

- year period, end quote. 10


### In 2012, when EPA proposed the first

- ever 11



### stand ards to control industrial pollution from 12


### power plants, the League joined with its 13


### environmental and social justice allies in 14


### collecting the largest number of comments ever 15


### submitted in review for EPA regulation. More 16


### than three million comments were pres ented in 17



### support of the proposed rules of the new power 18



### plants. 19


### We, again, here today add our voice in 20


### defense of the proposed rule change. This 21


### proposal is reasonable. It’s an essential step 22

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### in addressing climate change. We have a moral 1


### obligation t o do this for our children and to 2


### provide future generations with a cleaner, safer, 3


### and more stable environment. We trust that you 4


### will refer to our national air quality positions 5



### based on study and consensus. Thank you. 6



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 7



### Ques tions? No? Okay. 8


### And while we’re waiting for the card, let 9



### me

-- 10



### Thank you so much. We’ll make sure that 11


### gets in the record. 12


### Let me thank the audience for listening 13


### quietly and being very respectful of our 14


### speakers. I appreciate it, and they certain ly 15


### appreciate it as well. 16



### Next I’d like to call Annette Shimer and 17



### Matt Russell. 18


### MR. KOERBER: Ms. Shimer, you can go 19



### first. 20



### MS. SHIMER: Annette Shimer, S

- h

- i

- m

- e

- r. 21


### I am Annette Shimer, president of the League of 22

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### Women Voters of Greater Pittsburgh. I am also a 1


### former member of the Allegheny County Air Quality 2


### Advisory Committee. 3


### The League recognizes that the EPA has 4


### held countless public listening sessions leading 5


### up to the creation of this rule, and we commend 6


### the EPA for holding this public heari ng. For 7



### decades, the League has supported federal 8


### controls of air pollution from many sources and 9


### promoted coordination of government 10


### responsibilities and activities. In Allegheny 11



### County, the League began to study the effects of 12


### air pollution in the earl y 1970s and has since 13


### advocated for effective air pollution control and 14


### adequately funded and staffed agencies. We have 15


### supported participated in regional air pollution 16



### control arrangements. 17


### Over many years, US citizens have been 18


### expected to trade respir atory health for industry 19


### and business prosperity. However, through the 20


### efforts of citizens and government agencies, 21


### concentrations of many pollutants emitted into 22

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### the air have been significantly reduced and 1


### public health has been improved. For the most 2


### part, business has succeeded and thrived. 3


### Now citizens are being asked by industry 4



### and business interests to trade the future health 5


### of the plant for their prosperity. Climate 6


### change brought on by carbon and methane emissions 7


### is beginning to raise the gl obal temperature, 8



### which creates more extreme weather events and 9


### disrupt both agricultural patterns and ocean acid 10


### levels, endangering food production. 11


### We have a moral obligation to change that 12


### tradeoff. We can do so by setting the first ever 13



### limits on ca rbon pollution from power plants to 14


### reduce the 40 percent of the carbon pollution in 15


### the United States that they produce. 16


### The EPA proposed rule revises the 17



### tradeoff to better protect the health of the 18



### Earth and its inhabitants, including future human 19



### ge nerations. We applaud that proposal. 20


### Here in Allegheny County, we remember the 21


### success of the 1970's implementation strategy for 22

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### the Clean Air Act of federal goals and the state 1


### implementation plan that delegated authority to 2


### the county to address unique conditions. We 3


### believe that the EPA's proposal to provide 4


### flexibility to the state and build on state 5


### leadership to achieve carbon reductions is 6


### appropriate and will be effective. Pennsylvania 7


### already has programs in place that could be part 8



### of its indi vidual or regional plan to reduce 9


### carbon pollution, including energy efficient 10


### codes for residential and commercial buildings, 11


### renewable energy portfolio standards or goals. 12



### The League also looks forward to the 13


### economic impact of innovation and investment in 14


### new clean energy technologies that will create a 15


### new generation of clean energy jobs. The return 16



### on that investment will be substantial. Since 17


### 1970, every dollar invested in compliance with 18


### Clean Air Act standards has yield $4 to $8 in 19



### economic benef its. In addition, some of the 20



### economic devastation of extreme weather events 21



### will be avoided. 22

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### We understand that there will be rate 1


### increases for electric power, and that the 2



### effects of increased rates are concerns that 3


### business and industry are voices . But the prices 4


### of the products and services that they provide 5


### should cover all the costs of production, 6


### offloading costs on the public in the form of 7


### healthcare expenses and now climate change 8



### effects is a violation of the basic market

- based 9


### economic sy stem that business interests profess 10



### to support. 11


### We also understand the possible hardships 12


### of rate increases for low income people. On the 13


### other hand, climate change effects often involve 14


### disproportionately on these same people. 15


### Finally, we have concern s with the 16



### reputed advantage of gas over coal. The League 17


### study on Marcellus shale gas extraction noted 18


### shale gas production has an 8 to 11 percent large 19


### greenhouse gas footprint than conventional gas 20


### over the lifecycle, although this could change 21



### with im proved practices. We hope that eventually 22

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### EPA will address methane emissions. Thank you. 1



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 2



### Could somebody close the door? We're 3


### getting some noise from the hallway and don't 4


### want to disturb the speakers. 5



### We do have extra c hairs up front here, 6


### and if people don't want to sit in the front row, 7


### you can always wheel the chairs to the back. 8



### It's a cascade effect. I know. 9



### Mr. Russell? 10



### MR. RUSSELL: Matt Russell, M

- a

- t

- t, R

- u

11



### s

- s

- e

- l. 12


### Good morning. My name is Matt Russell

. 13


### I'm a fifth generation Iowa farmer. I've been 14


### involved in agriculture my entire life, starting 15


### with my parents' farm and buying my own farm in 16



### 2005 that I co

- own and operate with my spouse, 17



### who works full

- time on the farm, and building a 18



### career, educat ing about and advocating for 19


### agriculture, including earning a M aster's in 20


### rural sociology from Iowa State. Currently, I'm 21


### on staff at the Drake University Agricultural Law 22

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### Center, where I work on food and agriculture 1


### policy. 2


### Global climate change is the most 3


### important human problem of my lifetime. The 4


### consequences of a changing climate aren't that 5


### big of a problem for the planet. It's probably 6


### not even that big of a problem for life 7


### continuing to exist on the planet, but the 8


### climate change is a huge pro blem for human life. 9


### In the next decade we're going to move 10


### beyond debating whether to deal with climate 11



### change to an all

- out race against the clock to 12


### adapt the consequences as well as to innovate to 13



### reverse the causes. 14


### As a farmer, I rely on science ev ery day 15


### to help grow my crops and produce my livestock. 16


### I also depend on and trust the climate scientists 17


### who are sounding the alarm about what climate 18


### change is going to mean for my farm. 19



### The proposed EPA standard on carbon 20


### emissions is a positive step toward both reducing 21


### the impacts of climate change on agriculture and 22

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### creating a dynamic where farmers use our land and 1



### know

- how to develop clean energy

- producing 2


### technologies and to develop practices that can 3


### pull increasing amounts of carbon out of the 4



### a tmosphere. 5


### As farmers, our business is to respond to 6


### very basic human needs, growing the feed, fiber, 7



### and fuel the world demands. We don't do this in 8



### an office or factories. We do it in nature. The 9


### weather on a daily basis is absolutely essential 10



### to ou r individual livelihoods. The climate is 11



### critical for farmers to be able to feed 7 billion 12


### people living on planet Earth. 13



### Extreme weather over the past decade has 14


### changed the discussion among farmers. We've seen 15



### firsthand what the climate scientists hav e said 16


### is going to happen. Just in the past year, 17


### American farmers have seen historic droughts, 18


### historic flooding, historic fires, and historic 19


### winds. We're dealing with new pest infestations, 20


### super weeds, and crop diseases fueled by a 21


### changing climate. 22

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### In the last year and a half on my farm we 1


### experienced snow in May. We've broken rainfall 2


### records and drought records. We've broken high 3



### temperate records and low temperature records, 4



### and last year we had 800,000 acres of Iowa 5



### farmland that went unplante d because of wet 6


### conditions, followed by yield losses because of 7


### dry weather in subsequent months, and we're back 8


### into that pattern. Record rainfall in June this 9


### year, and now we're going into the third week of 10


### not a drop of rain on our farm, and my paren ts, 11


### they haven't had rain on their farm since July 12



### 5th. 13


### Some farmers are still in the camp of 14


### denying that humans are causing climate change, 15


### but every farmer is scrambling to adjust to the 16


### increase in extreme weather. In just the last 17



### decade, there's be en this intense increase in the 18


### anxiety about going as hard as you can when you 19


### can because you just don't know when the weather 20


### is going to stop you in your tracks because it 21


### has changed. A mistake in timing or missing a 22

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### window is the difference between having and not 1


### having the crop. Last year, those 800,000 2


### unplanted acres in Iowa proved this point. 3


### Climate change is real. It's happening. 4


### It's going to get worse, and it's already causing 5


### great harm to American farms. The future 6


### predicted by climat e scientists looks like 7


### present day California with crop failures, 8


### increased food cost, lost jobs, and battles over 9



### resources. 10


### But American farmers are not just 11


### victims. We can be part of the solution. We can 12


### innovate. We can implement, and we can lead the 13


### world in solving the problems of climate change. 14


### US farmers may be lagging behind on 15


### addressing climate change politically, but we are 16


### starting to step up. Agriculture will play a 17


### huge role in reducing emissions and actually 18


### putting carbon back in t he ground. We're 19


### developing cover crops, using no till, and buying 20


### higher efficiency equipment. 21



### We can also generate clean energy. For 22

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### example, Pennsylvania joins Iowa as a leader in 1


### wind energy. Dairy farmers are developing 2


### methane digesters, turnin g manure into 3


### electricity. Farmers have developed the biofuels 4


### industry. Reducing our dependence on the most 5


### polluting power plants increases the ability of 6



### American farmers to innovate on our land. 7


### American farmers are going to step up and be 8



### counted o n to lead the world in battling climate 9



### change. 10


### I speak for a lot of American farmers 11


### when I say let's stop wasting our time debating 12


### the existence of climate change. Let's stop 13


### wringing our hands because this problem is going 14



### to take resources to sol ve. We need to use our 15


### time and money to find ways to protect the 16


### climate we depend on. Time and again, American 17


### agriculture has led the world in solving big 18



### problems. We are ready to put our shoulders to 19


### the wheel to help solve this one. Thank you. 20



### M R. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. And thank 21


### you for traveling so far to be with us today. 22

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### MR. RUSSELL: Thank you. 1


### MR. KOERBER: Appreciate it. 2



### Next I'd like to hear from Peter Bix ler 3



### and Jackson Morris. 4



### Mr. Bixler? 5


### MR. BIXLER: Hello. My name is Peter 6



### B ixler, and I live in Philadelphia with my sister 7



### and my parents. 8


### I came all the way from Philadelphia to 9


### Pittsburgh to say how important this issue is to 10


### my family and to my community. 11


### I thank the EPA for proposing this long 12



### overdue effort to limit carbo n pollution from 13


### power plants. I'm concerned with the future of 14


### the world and that it will be changed 15


### irreversibly due to the climate change. 16


### A couple years ago my family took a 17


### vacation to Alaska, and we saw an amazing glacier 18



### there. I'm concerned that I won't be able to 19


### visit that same glacier with my children because 20


### it will have vanished due to change in climate. 21


### I notice the effects of global warming 22

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### every day around me. This winter was the coldest 1


### one I've ever experienced, and my aunt and uncle 2



### own a house down by the Jersey Shore. And when I 3


### went to visit them a couple years ago, I saw the 4


### devastation caused by Hurricane Sandy. 5


### Scientists say that these major weather events 6


### are only going to keep happening over and over 7


### because of the change i n climate due to humans. 8



### Many students at my school have asthma, 9


### and the climate is only exacerbating their 10


### asthma. One of my friends almost died because of 11



### an asthma attack on the bus. 12


### My mom is a physician in the Philadelphia 13


### Public Health System, and she keeps telling me 14


### about all her patients who are plagued by 15


### respiratory issues. 16


### Once again, I would like to thank the EPA 17


### for coming to Pennsylvania and urge you to enact 18


### the proposed standards as soon as possible. 19



### Thank you. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you . That was 21



### wonderful. 22

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### Mr. Morris? 1



### MR. MORRIS: Yes. Jackson Morris, M

- o

- r

2



### r

- r

- i

- s. 3


### Good morning. My name is Jackson Morris. 4


### I'm director of Eastern Energy of the Natural 5



### Resources Defense Council and a native 6


### Pennsylvanian who traveled across the st ate from 7


### my family farm in the Susquehanna Valley to 8


### testify today. 9


### NRDC is a nonprofit environmental 10


### organization with more than 1.4 million members 11


### and online activists, including over 54,000 in 12


### Pennsylvania. Since our founding in 1970, our 13



### lawyers, scientists, and other environmental 14


### specialists have worked to protect the world's 15


### natural resources, its public health, and the 16



### environment. 17


### NRDC's top institutional priority is 18


### curbing global warming emissions and bui lding the 19



### clean energy economy. I'm also a father of 20


### three, and my top personal priority is taking 21


### care of my kids. For both of those reasons, I'm 22

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### here to support EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. 1


### It is the largest single step ever taken 2


### to reduce global warming emissions in this 3



### countr y. By reducing emissions, we will reduce 4


### the risk of climate impacts for our children, 5


### including the droughts, severe storms, and 6



### climate

- change

- related health problems such as 7


### respiratory problems that we are already 8


### experiencing in Pennsylvania and acro ss the 9



### country. 10


### The proposed Clean Power Plan will also 11


### yield other significant benefits for us here in 12


### the Keystone state. Modeling shows that pursuing 13


### carbon reductions through a state plan that ramps 14


### up our investments in energy efficiency and 15



### renewab le energy can yield more than 5,000 jobs 16


### by 2020 and save families and businesses over 17


### $450 million in energy costs. These reductions 18


### will also prevent thousands of asthma attacks, 19


### heart attacks, and other respiratory illnesses by 20


### cutting air pollution fr om power plants. 21


### In Pennsylvania we already have some good 22

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### ongoing models that will help us to meet the 1


### state target of a 32 percent reduction of carbon 2


### intensity by 2030. In fact, since EPA used 3


### fairly conservative assumptions to generate its 4



### estimates of our renewable energy and energy 5


### efficiency potential, Pennsylvania could harvest 6


### significantly greater cost effective carbon 7


### reductions with increasing benefits. 8


### On energy efficiency, the state's energy 9


### efficiency law, Pennsylvania Act 129, enacted in 10


### 2008, has already delivered huge cash in energy 11


### savings to customers and is set to deliver many 12



### more. Customers of the state's largest 13


### distribution utility PICO have saved roughly $331 14


### million since the law was first implemented, and 15



### customers of PPL, my own utility, have saved 16


### roughly $428 million. 17


### There's huge potential to do more on 18


### efficiency in Pennsylvania. The state's own 19


### analysis shows we can cost effectively cut more 20



### than 27 percent of our forecasted energy use over 21


### the next 10 years using curre ntly available 22

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### technology. By contrast, EPA assumes cumulative 1


### energy savings in 2029 of just over 11 percent. 2


### On the renewable energy front, while the 3


### state's alternative energy portfolio standard 4


### definitely needs to be strengthened, Pennsylvania 5



### is wel l positioned to ramp up. Even in its 6


### currently relatively modest form, the standard 7


### has already driven the installation of more than 8


### 1,300 megawatts of wind power, 25 wind farms, 9


### providing 1.5 percent of the state's energy in 10


### 2013 and powering the equival ent of 300,000 11



### homes. 12


### A solid solar power foundation has been 13



### established as well. There are more than 440 14


### solar companies in our state, employing 2,900 15


### workers and are installed solar capacity is 11th 16



### in the nation. 17


### We can give Pennsylvania more jobs , more 18


### energy savings, a more stable climate, and 19


### healthier families by meeting and exceeding the 20


### targets in the proposed plan. 21



### NR DC also strongly supports EPA's 22

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### proposal to allow states to pursue regional 1


### multistate approaches to compliance. As the 2


### Regi onal Greenhouse Gas Initiative has 3


### demonstrated, a regional approach as a number of 4


### advantages. These include but are not limited to 5


### greater flexibility for compliance entities, 6


### better alignment with energy markets, since 7


### electricity does not stop at stat e borders, and 8


### lower net cost for compliance, which benefits 9



### consumers. 10



### In fact, a recent report from the 11


### analysis group found that RGGI has produced in 12


### total $1.6 billion in net present economic value 13



### for the 10 states in RGGI. Such interstate value 14


### might be achieved by linking the three energy 15


### intensive states of Ohio, West Virginia, and 16


### Pennsylvania, for example, and their assets as 17



### I'll outline below, to achieve these benefits at 18



### the lowest cost. 19



### In order to facilitate such discussions 20



### amongst sta tes interested in pursuing regional 21


### approaches, we strongly urge the EPA to publish 22

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### and release mass

- based targets to accompany the 1



### rates

- based targets included in the proposed 2


### rule. Doing so will reduce the uncertainty for 3


### state regulators, giving both t he RGGI states and 4


### other state a clearer picture of their mass

- based 5


### obligations as they weigh compliance options and 6


### engage in regional conversations. 7


### All this brings me to Ohio, the Buckeye 8


### state. In cutting carbon emissions from power 9


### plants, Ohio is already of the game with robust 10


### energy efficiency and renewable energy sector in 11


### place. Ohio's efficiency and renewable's law is 12



### on hold for two years, but the law, once fully 13


### implemented, can be an important part of the 14



### calculus as the state devises a co mpliance plan. 15


### These energy efficiency investments can reduce 16


### carbon emissions by a conservative 32 million 17


### tons in Ohio, the amount emitted by 6.7 million 18



### cars. 19


### Pennsylvania's neighbor to the south, 20


### West Virginia, also has much to gain from its 21



### very ach ievable and realistic target under the 22

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### Clean Power Plan. The state is the third 1


### windiest east of the Mississippi and already home 2


### to six large wind farms. In West Virginia 3


### there's enough wind power to potentially supply 4



### almost 20 percent of the state's e lectric needs. 5


### Electric rates that have skyrocketed recently due 6



### to an overreliance on one fuel source, coal, can 7


### be brought down as the state capitalizes on its 8


### largely untapped energy efficiency resources, 9


### saving consumers money on energy and creating 10


### j obs simultaneously. 11


### Got it. EPA's proposed plan is an 12


### important step forward for the nation. We must 13


### now work to build on this proposal and adopt an 14


### even stronger final rule next year to benefit not 15


### only Pennsylvanians' but Ohioans', West 16


### Virginians', a nd economies across the nation. In 17


### the meantime, regulators in these states can get 18


### busy crafting smart compliance plans that will 19


### make them national clean energy leaders. 20


### We look forward to continuing to work 21



### with EPA and state decision makers in 22

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### Pen nsylvania and beyond, to strengthen the Clean 1



### Power Plan proposal and pursue smart state 2


### approaches to meeting and beating the required 3


### emissions reductions, doing so will maximize job 4


### creation, bill savings, and public health 5


### benefits. Thank you. 6



### MR. KO ERBER: Thank you. 7


### Mr. Bixler, Mr. Morris, thank you both 8



### very much. Thank you both, gentlemen. 9



### I'd like to call Jonathan Roberson and 10



### Isa Muhammad. 11


### MR. ROBERSON: Good morning. I am 12



### Jonathan

-- attorney Jonathan Roberson, 154 North 13



### Bellfield Avenue
, A partment 66 in the Oakland 14


### neighborhood of Pittsburgh. 15



### I am here for two purposes, one, to 16


### support the EPA regs, proposed EPA regulations as 17


### a necessary first step to deal with the clean air 18


### economy and also to suggest the most important 19


### potential tech nological tool to deal with the 20


### environment and energy. 21



### On the EPA regs, I want to

-- while 22

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### supporting the proposed EPA's regs as an 1


### essential first step to dealing with the species

2


### threatening danger of global warming, I want to 3



### endorse the

-- as the col league from the National 4


### Resources Defense Council aptly put it, a clean 5


### air economy. And we have to

-- I want to express 6


### appreciation and support for my brothers and 7


### sisters in the Mine Workers Union, especially the 8


### coal miners who are present here today , and 9


### appreciate their feelings about

-- the love/hate 10


### relationship with being dark as a dungeon way 11



### down in the mines. 12


### We must work with the UMW in making sure 13


### the workers are protected economically, and that 14


### any jobs that are lost because of essential 15



### e nvironmental protection must be replaced with 16


### good union jobs. And the union will give us

-- 17


### the Miner Workers Union I'm sure will play an 18


### important role in guiding us in that direction. 19


### On the technology issue, the critical

-- 20


### there's one critical piece of technology in not 21


### only providing clean air economy, and stopping 22

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### global warming, and protecting our air

-- and 1


### protecting in energy conversation, and it's not 2


### high tech. It's the old

- fashioned bus. A public 3


### transit vehicle replaces many, many cars th at use 4



### energy, spew exhaust, and take space, valuable 5


### space when they're parked. It is really an 6


### essential part of any planning, not only for the 7



### environment but for our cities, and its increased 8


### use of the public transit system. And I urge us 9



### all, EPA a nd us all to support adequate funding 10


### and a strong public transit system. 11



### Thank you very much. 12


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 13



### Mr. M uhammad? 14


### MR. MUHAMMAD: Yes, sir. My name is Isa 15



### Mohammed, I

- s

- a, first name. Last name, M

- u

- h

- a

16



### m

- m

- a

- d. I am f rom Akron, Ohio, and I'm here to 17


### give my testimony. 18



### As citizens of the United States of 19


### America, we have an obligation to protect fellow 20



### citizens, our children, and our future 21


### generations from the impacts of climate change by 22

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### addressing this main issue, c arbon pollution from 1



### power plants. 2


### The Environmental Protection Agency's 3


### Clean Power Plan is an answer to this problem. 4


### This plan slashes dangerous carbon pollution 5


### being dumped into our air, land, and water. This 6


### proposal puts investments in energy eff iciency 7


### and clean energy that will power the 21st 8



### century. The Clean Power Plan promotes healthy 9


### living in our communities along with a healthy 10



### economy. 11


### Citizens should support cutting carbon 12


### pollution because it is driving changes in our 13



### weather that ar e dangerous to the environment, 14


### and it is costly. 15


### Power plants and major industrial 16



### businesses emitted more than 100 million metric 17


### tons of carbon pollution in the environment in 18


### the year 2012. This is too much pollution for 19



### the citizens to suffer from. In the city of 20



### Akron, for example, we have power plants and 21



### industrial businesses in our third, fourth, and 22

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### fifth wards that on a daily basis release 1


### chemicals that are hurting our environment in 2


### urban areas. It is hard to promote healthy 3


### living in our c ommunities when we are breathing 4


### toxins on a daily basis. 5


### Smog levels are causing asthma

- like 6


### symptoms in our communities, and these numbers 7


### are rising among young children. 8


### Temperature and precipitation patterns 9


### can affect the lifecycle and distributi on of 10


### insects that transport diseases to pose health 11


### problems to our citizens. Extreme weather events 12


### are costing the United States hundreds of 13



### millions of dollars to rebuild and to recover 14


### from. FEMA has issued 15 major disaster 15


### declarations in the past 10 years for the Ohio 16


### region that includes heavy rains and major storm 17


### damage, which used to be unheard of. 18



### We need the Clean Power Plan to allow the 19


### flexibility of states to develop customized plans 20


### that will keep our energy affordable and reliable 21



### whil e ensuring the safety of the public. Each 22

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### state will have the ability to create renewable 1


### solutions uniquely to their own success. 2



### The Clean Power Plan eliminates carbon 3


### pollution and provides fresh air for the 4


### communities across the country. This will 5



### enhance our facilities and our communities to 6


### provide jobs for the improvement of our land, 7


### air, and water qualities to stimulate the local 8



### economies. 9


### This concludes my written testimony. 10



### Thank you. 11


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 12



### Next I'd like to call J ohn Ziak , and John 13



### Eich. Again, apologies for any 14



### m ispronunciations. 15



### MR. ZIAK: No problem. 16



### MR. KOERBER: I'm sure you'll correct me 17



### if I'm too far off base. 18



### MR. ZIAK: Hello. I'm Dr. John Ziak from 19


### State College Pennsylvania. I'm a statistician 20



### work ing with social science research at Penn 21



### State. I'm here to express my personal support 22

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### for the EPA's proposed carbon emissions 1



### limitations. 2


### Last year I had the amazing opportunity 3


### to visit my dear beautiful children, Freda and 4


### Emily, and their families in their village 5


### Merimonte (phonetic) in the Tharaka district of 6


### Kenya. This is Emily and her grandparents. 7


### Tharaka is a hot, dry land, almost 8


### desert, with a few people and their goats, and 9


### chickens, and thorny plants, but the people were 10


### kind and good. One dirt

- poor farmer offered us a 11


### beautiful white goat as a present for his 12


### visitors. It was probably the best thing he had, 13


### and I had to apologize for not being able to take 14


### it on the plane. 15



### In recent years, Tharaka has been 16


### experiencing unusually seve re droughts in which 17


### people were going hungry because they could not 18


### grow enough food. Scientists predict the climate 19


### change will make Africa even hotter and more 20



### vulnerable to deadly droughts. I felt bad that 21


### if we do not change, we will hurt their land and 22

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### people. 1


### I spoke about this with a holy priest who 2


### helps look after the children. He said he was 3


### also worried about climate change, but that I 4



### should not feel too bad personally because I 5


### would do something if I could. This is my small 6



### attempt not t o let them down. 7



### I am also worried about the beautiful 8


### wildlife such as rhinoceros and giraffes, which I 9


### saw in that trip. In past times, wildlife could 10


### sometimes adapt to weather changes by moving to 11



### more fertile areas, but now there are human 12



### cities, f arms, and roads in their way; and both 13


### humans and animals will increasingly suffer from 14



### conflict. 15


### As Americans, we really want to make the 16


### world better, not worse. Making the way we 17


### produce energy cleaner will be a big help towards 18



### this. 19



### Thank you very much. 20


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 21



### Mr. Eich? 22

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### MR. EICH: Good morning. My name is John 1


### Eich, and I live in State College. And I want to 2


### thank you for the opportunity to present 3


### testimony here today. 4


### I've traveled to speak in support of the 5



### Clean Powe r Plan. As a community planner, I have 6


### devoted many years to helping communities improve 7


### their quality of life. What's kind of unique 8


### about this area is first we're hearing about 9


### global impacts, and now I'm going to talk about 10


### Pennsylvania. 11


### Quality of l ife is multifaceted and 12


### includes promoting economic development, 13


### protecting environmental resources, developing 14


### infrastructure, providing for public services, 15


### and assuring public safety . One of the charges 16


### given in Pennsylvania's enabling legislation for 17


### planning is to minimize such problems as may 18


### presently exist or which may be foreseen. 19


### Scientific research has made a compelling 20


### case that human activity that adds carbon to the 21


### atmosphere is contributing to climate change, but 22

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### beyond science, common sens e tells us that if 1



### humans release the carbon which has been stored 2



### in fossil fuels over hundreds of millions of 3


### years in a very short time frame, literally a 4


### couple hundred years, then we are going to have 5


### an impact. 6


### The impact of carbon on the atmosphere
, 7


### on eco systems, and, hence, on people is a 8


### problem that currently exists. Greater impacts 9



### can be foreseen unless action is taken. 10


### Therefore, planners and community leaders have an 11


### obligation to take action. 12



### EPA's Clean Power Plan is a reasonable 13



### respo nse to the identified problem. The primary 14


### focus of the plan is on the largest contributors 15



### to that problem and the targets and methods 16


### described in the plan to address the issue are 17


### reasonable, achievable, and offer a variety of 18


### options for states to uti lize in achieving their 19


### portion of a national goal. 20


### Many existing power plants are 21


### (inaudible). They're old. They're unpopular and 22

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### operating at or beyond their useful life, and 1


### just like other infrastructure such as roads and 2


### bridges which you hear so m uch about, our power 3


### plants must be upgraded or replaced. This 4


### renewal of worn out facilities provides the 5


### opportunity for our nation to once, again, create 6


### a cutting edge power system, one that meets the 7


### low carbon goals described in EPA's Clean Power 8



### Pl an. 9


### The building blocks described in the plan 10



### are a good start. They encourage the development 11


### of renewable energy sources while providing for 12



### use of other fuels. That ensures an orderly 13


### transition and encourages economic development in 14



### 21st century industries, but consideration should 15


### be given to adding another building block. 16



### Here's why. Two

- thirds of the energy generated 17


### by a centralized power station is consumed, 18


### moving the power from where it is generated to 19



### the user. The US can reduce the amo unt of carbon 20


### it puts in the atmosphere by supplementing 21


### centrally produced power with energy produced by 22

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### a distributed power system, solar, wind, and 1


### geothermal systems that serve individual homes 2


### and businesses. While this will not replace the 3



### base load produced by power plants, it may 4


### mitigate the need to build additional capacity to 5


### satisfy peak loads. 6


### A distributed power system has the added 7



### benefit resilient. Homes that would otherwise 8


### lose power when the grid is affected by an 9



### extreme weather eve nt or other disaster may be 10


### able to provide the capability of sheltering its 11


### occupants in place through that disaster, 12


### reducing the need for emergency services. 13


### I'd like to thank you for the opportunity 14


### to present testimony today and wish you luck with 15



### th is process. Thank you. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. I'm a Penn 17


### State grad, so thank you both for being here. 18



### MR. ZIAK: Thanks. 19



### MR. KOERBER: I'd like to call Frank 20


### Kraybill and Jeaneen Zappa. 21


### Mr. Kraybill? 22

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### MR. KRAYBILL: Yes. Fred Kraybill, K

- r

1



### a

- y

- b

- i

- l

- l. I'm a huge fan for this carbon rule 2


### for the EPA. My name again is Fred Kraybill. 3


### I'm a resident of Pittsburgh and a 4


### registered nurse. I'm also co

- owner of Thomas 5


### Boulevard Group, a business which rents six 6


### apartments here in Pittsburgh. 7


### We are a solar powered business. We have 8



### solar panels on our property. I and many of my 9



### friends make an effort to cut our carbon 10


### footprint. We want clean energy because climate 11


### change is a serious threat, and the EPA Clean 12


### Power Plan will help to addres s it. 13


### The top three emitters of carbon dioxide 14



### in the US are, number one, Texas, number two, 15


### California, and number three, Pennsylvania. 16


### Texas is shifting to wind power in a big way. 17


### Last year they generated 10 percent of their 18


### electricity from 12,000 m egawatts of wind. Texas 19


### currently has another 7,000 megawatts of wind 20


### under construction. So as you can see, they will 21

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### easily reach 20 percent of their electricity from 1



### wind in the near future. 2


### California is even further along in clean 3



### renewable energy. They already get 20 percent of 4


### their electricity from wind, solar, and 5


### geothermal power sources, and California will get 6


### to 33 percent clean energy in six years because 7


### they have a renewable portfolio standard that 8


### will get them there. 9


### So this is proof that clean energy can 10


### make the emission cuts we need. Many other 11


### states are taking action on clean energy. We 12



### need the EPA Clean Power Plan because we need all 13



### 50 states to take a minimum action to cut carbon 14


### pollution and to fight climate change. CO 2 15



### p ollution doesn't stop at the state border, but 16



### it crosses all borders. CO 2 

### emissions are already 17


### on the decline in the US, but part of that was 18



### the recession of 2009. We need to make sure that 19



### CO 2 

### emissions continue to go down and the EPA 20



### Clean Power Pla n will ensure that we continue in 21


### the right direction. 22

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### What about coal power? The coal industry 1


### has a billboard in the Pennsylvania turnpike that 2


### says, "Coal is red, white, and blue, and 3


### increasingly green." If coal is increasingly 4


### green, then it's tim e to start sequestering your 5


### carbon pollution. It's time to improve the 6


### efficiency or retire the oldest and dirtiest 7



### power plants. 8


### Every national academy of science on the 9


### planet has come to the consensus that climate 10


### change is happening. The globe is g etting 11


### hotter, and the primary driver is manmade 12



### emissions of CO 2 

### . We trust scientific fact in 13


### medicine, technology, and many other fields, and 14


### we should also respect climate science. 15


### Increasingly, the climate science 16


### predictions are already happening. We are seeing 17


### more intense heat waves, droughts, rain, and 18


### flooding events worldwide. We are seeing 19


### significant loss of glacial ice and snow. We are 20


### seeing more intense storms. The American 21


### southwest has been particularly hard hit by 22

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### drought, heat waves , and one record

- breaking 1


### forest fire after another. We should stop 2


### pretending that all that matters is artificially 3


### lower electricity prices when there is a social 4


### cost to carbon pollution. We should stop 5


### pretending that all that matters is jobs in the 6


### fossil fuel energy when clean energy is one of 7


### the fastest growing jobs sectors. 8


### We should make climate action a top 9


### priority because all efforts we invest in the 10


### next generation won't mean much if we've wrecked 11



### the climate. 12


### I hope that many of you will join us in 13


### New York City on September 21 for the largest 14


### climate rally in history. I want to thank Gina 15



### McCarthy and the EPA for the Clean Power Plan, 16



### and we want the world to know that America will 17


### take bold action to cut carbon pollution. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 19



### Ms. Zappa? 20


### MS. ZAPPA: My name is J eaneen Zappa, J

21



### e

- a

- n

- e

- e

- n, Zappa, Z

- a

- p

- p

- a. 22

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### I am the executive director of a local 1


### nonprofit organization, Conservation Consultants, 2



### Inc. We've been around since 1978, and we visit 3



### more than 4,0 00 homes every year. We serve the 4


### working poor and those who are just above federal 5


### poverty guidelines. 6


### We're here today for a specific reason. 7


### Our mission as an organization is to promote the 8


### responsible use of energy in homes and other 9


### buildings, and we would ask that the EPA consider 10


### its rule establishing a system that employs 11


### something similar to the US Green Building 12


### Council's lead of having prerequisites. 13


### While we respect states' rights, we think 14


### that the notion of not requiring energy 15



### efficien cy as a prerequisite is akin to thinking 16


### about a person who's obese not going on a diet 17


### and only choosing healthy foods but continuing to 18


### consume more calories than are necessary. Energy 19


### efficiency is, of all of the options set forth in 20



### the rule, the easi est, the most achievable, and 21

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### significantly proven method to reduce energy, 1


### which directly correlates to carbon reduction. 2


### I wanted to share with you that in our 3


### region in particular the energy consumption per 4


### capita is higher than the national average, per 5


### the Energy Information Administration data that 6


### in our region most of the housing stock was built 7


### before 1956. Energy efficiency standards for 8



### homes didn't come online until the mid

- 70s, and, 9



### therefore, we see, in the work we do, four 10


### utility companie s, through the Pennsylvania 11


### Utility Commission, and the required work for low 12


### income usage reduction programs that utility 13


### provide by published data that is sent out by 14


### Pennsylvania State University each year, on 15


### average for electric companies a 14 percent 16



### reduction of electric bills in these homes and 17


### approximately a 20 percent reduction in gas 18


### usage, which obviously helps. So it has a 19


### relationship indirectly to electricity usage. We 20


### think there could be significant reduction on 21

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### grade pressure simply by focusing on energy 1


### efficiency. 2


### We're also concerned that the shifting of 3



### the burden of how this is enacted not create a 4


### new set of working poor of those who are working 5


### in industries that currently generate energy, and 6



### we would ask that the EPA equally give 7


### consideration to requiring that the shift in some 8


### way prioritize job retraining and job replacement 9


### for those who would be most deeply impacted by 10


### these changes so that they are able to continue 11


### to have a solid working living. 12



### We are

-- and while I do not speak for 13



### them

-- a member of the Reenergize Coalition 14



### locally , which is working to drive a market 15


### demand for energy efficiency. We participate in 16



### the 2030 Challenge sponsored by the Green 17


### Building Alliance locally, which is one of three 18



### efforts ac ross the country where, in our region, 19



### more than half of the downtown businesses 20


### commercial property owners have committed to 21


### reducing their carbon footprint by 50 percent by 22

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### the year 2030, the same year named in the EPA 1



### rule. 2



### We also are a member of the Diagnostic 3


### Energy Auditors of Western Pennsylvania and the 4


### Solar Unified Network of Western Pennsylvania. 5


### We have solar arrays on our building in addition 6



### to three separate gas

- powered systems, a mini 7


### split system. We really try to be source 8


### agnostic and in all things advocate that energy 9


### efficiency should be the first step in what is 10



### done. 11


### So that concludes my testimony today. We 12


### ask that you take this into consideration as you 13


### shape the rule moving forward. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you 15



### both. 16


### Mr. Court Reporter, you doing fine? You 17



### need a break? No? Good. 18


### Well, let me again thank the audience for 19


### listening quietly and being very respectful of 20


### our speakers. I appreciate it, and they very 21


### much appreciate it. 22

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### Next I'd like to call Peter Wra y and 1



### Melanie Fleck. 2


### Ms. Fleck, if you're ready. 3


### MS. FLECK: Hello. My name is Melody 4



### Fleck, M

- e

- l

- o

- d

- y, F

- l

- e

- c

- k, and I have 5



### traveled here from State College; and I 6


### appreciate the opportunity to speak. 7


### The EPA's Clean Power Plan proposal is a 8



### powerf ul step in the right direction. High 9


### carbon dioxide levels in our atmosphere are 10


### driving climate change, increasing the acidity of 11


### our oceans, causing polar ice melt, increasing 12


### ocean levels, and disrupting fragile eco systems. 13



### Power plants cause about 4 0 percent of 14


### America's carbon pollution. Reducing carbon 15


### dioxide emissions from power plants and stopping 16


### methane escapes from natural gas drilling are 17


### crucial to the fight against climate change. 18



### A recent study led by Harvard and 19


### Syracuse Universities f ound that reducing power 20


### plants emissions will also reduce associated 21


### dangerous chemicals such as sulfur dioxide, 22

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### nitrogen oxides, particulates, and mercury, which 1


### contribute to dangerous acid rain, distribution 2


### of habitat, mercury, and fish, ozone, damage to 3


### trees and crops, and threaten our health with 4



### increased incidents of asthma and heart disease. 5


### Reducing power plants emissions will improve the 6


### health of our children, our parents, and 7



### ourselves. 8


### Some politicians deny or ignore these 9



### facts for the be nefit of their friends in the 10


### pollution business. The American Lung 11


### Association estimates that up to 100,000 asthma 12


### attacks and 4,000 premature deaths will be 13


### avoided in the first year the Clean Power Plan 14


### regulations are put into effect. Now is not the 15


### time to deny scientific facts. 16


### Pollution is cutting people's lives short 17


### and making them sick. This fight for clean air 18


### is not only a fight to protect our communities, 19



### environment, and our health, but it is also a 20



### battle to determine who controls our cou ntry. 21


### Every time regulations are proposed that would 22

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### clean up the air, water, and land, powerful 1


### business interest with deep pockets oppose them. 2


### Will the basic rights of citizens to breathe 3


### clean air, drink clean water, and enjoy 4


### democratic representati on be recognized, or will 5


### the interest of big energy corporations prevail? 6


### Americans need our government to work for 7


### us, protect our health, our communities, our 8


### children, and grandchildren, and our future. 9


### Companies who use their influence to block 10



### envi ronmental protection regulations have no 11


### moral compass. Their purpose is to rake in the 12


### biggest profits while spending the least amount 13


### on pollution control. They spew pollutants into 14


### our air and water and let the taxpayers foot the 15


### bill for clean up, an d patients pay the health 16


### cost in staggering medical bills, pain, 17


### suffering, and heart wrenching loss. The human 18


### element cannot be ignored in this decision. Our 19


### future depends on successfully reversing climate 20



### change. 21

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### Stiffer regulations to control powe r 1



### plan t emissions is the first step, but we also 2


### need to be proactive as a country and embrace 3


### clean energy technology such as solar, wind, and 4


### hydroelectric. 5


### While natural gas is seen as a bridge 6


### fuel by the Obama administration, in a state 7


### horribly wr ecked by hydraulic fracturing, 8


### Pennsylvanians know it is not the answer. 9


### Methane escapes from natural gas drilling have a 10


### significantly greater global warming in the short 11


### term than carbon dioxide, according to NASA. We 12


### need to begin now to subsidize cle an renewable 13


### energy and unleash our scientists to devise a 14


### plan to address climate change. Thank you. 15



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 16



### Mr. Wray? 17


### MR. WRAY: Good morning. Thank you for 18


### holding this Clean Power Plan hearing in the 19


### livable city of Pittsburgh. M y name is Peter 20



### Wray. That's W

- r

- a

- y, and I am chair of the 21


### conservation committee of the Allegheny Group of 22

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### the Sierra Club with over 5,000 members in 1


### southwest Pennsylvania. 2


### The EPA is to be commended for proposing 3


### these guidelines to cut carbon pollut ion from 4


### existing power plants. We wholeheartedly support 5


### these measures because they will provide 6


### healthier air in our region as well as across the 7



### country. 8


### We also support these guidelines because 9


### they are the biggest step yet taken to curtail 10



### climate change. Pennsylvania contributes 11


### approximately four percent of the greenhouse 12


### gases emitted in the United States, primarily 13



### from power plants, and many of those power plants 14


### are close to Pittsburgh. In 2012, Pennsylvania's 15



### emission of CO 2 

### from the power plants covered by 16


### the proposed guidelines amounted to 106 million 17



### metric tons, 106 million metric tons that the 18


### planet could do without. 19


### While we welcome these guidelines, we 20


### believe that the agency should incorporate 21


### consideration of a possible consequ ence of the 22

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### guidelines. In an effort to reduce costs and 1


### perhaps in anticipation of CO 2 

### regulations, power 2


### plants operators have already begun to shift from 3


### coal to natural gas that is produced by fracking. 4


### With the proposed guidelines in place, we expec t 5



### this shift to accelerate. The environmental 6


### concerns regarding the use of fracked natural gas 7


### are numerous and deserve the agency's attention 8


### in conjunction with adoption of these guidelines. 9


### Let me repeat that, in conjunction with adoption 10



### of these gu idelines. 11


### If the goal is to reduce greenhouse gas 12


### emissions, then the expected increase in 13


### emissions of methane associated with production, 14


### transmission, and burning of fracked gas must be 15


### fully accounted for, and if the goal is to 16



### achieve a healthier env ironment, then the 17


### increase in air and water pollution associated 18


### with the production, transmission, and burning of 19


### fracked gas must be accounted for and remedied. 20


### A link to a compendium of the scientific, 21


### medical, and media findings that demonstrate the 22

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### risk and harms of fracking

-- I have provided the 1


### link to that compendia. 2


### A partial alternative to the replacement 3


### of coal with fracked gas is to reduce the 4


### consumption of electrical energy. Unfortunately, 5


### the national effort to improve energy efficiency 6


### has not received the support it deserves. In a 7


### recent analysis, the measures taken to reduce

-- 8



### of the measures taken to reduce energy 9


### consumption, the American Council for an Energy 10


### Efficient Economy found that the US was ranked 11



### number 13 amongst 16 of the world's major 12


### economists, with Germany number one. I have also 13


### given a link to that analysis. 14



### We understand that the EPA has developed 15


### a national action plan for energy efficiency, but 16


### how many people in this audience are aware of 17


### that plan and its a ccomplishments. I would guess 18


### very, very few. Clearly, there is a need to 19


### significantly bolster this action plan that EPA 20


### has developed and bolster it with an accelerated 21


### time table and incentives for energy efficiency 22

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### in buildings, homes, manufacturing plants, et 1


### cetera, just as Jeaneen has just expounded upon. 2


### In conclusion, the Allegheny Group of the 3


### Sierra Club supports aggressive implementation of 4



### the Clean Power Plan. We do, however, urge the 5


### agency to protect the environment from an 6


### expected shif t from coal to fracked gas and to 7


### pursue the action plan for energy efficiency with 8


### greater vigor and effect. Thank you. 9


### I do have a question, and that is whether 10


### these proceedings, these testimonies, which are 11


### really impressive, will be made public? 12



### MR . KOERBER: There will be a transcript, 13


### I believe, provided in our record. 14



### MR. WRAY: Okay. Thank you. 15



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both 16


### for being here today. 17



### MS. FLECK : Thank you. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Next I'd like to call John 19



### Bechtel and Stev e Todd. 20


### When you're ready, sir. 21

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### MR. BECHTEL: Good morning. My name is 1


### John Bechtel. I'm 66 years old, retired, and 2


### live in Harrisburg. I'm an active member in two 3


### environmental groups, one secular, one faith 4


### based and both working hard for the cause of 5


### clean air in Pennsylvania. 6


### But I'll speak in my own voice today, and 7


### I'd like to do that by first telling you a short 8


### story from my personal life. It's sort of a 9


### metaphor for why I put so much time into the 10


### climate change movement. 11



### A few years ago wh en I was still teaching 12



### a fourth grade Sunday school class, one of the 13


### kids' parents, an active duty Army sergeant, gave 14


### me what was, for him, an urgent call. It had 15


### nothing to do with Sunday school or his fourth 16


### grader, for she was away on a church miss ion trip 17



### with his wife at the time. Rather it was about 18


### the urgent need to put his family's living 19


### quarters on the military base into spick and span 20


### shape ASAP. The departure date for his next post 21


### of duty in Hawaii was closing in fast, but with 22

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### his wife and daughter out of town and unable to 1


### help, he had fallen behind schedule with the 2



### cleanup work and needed to catch up fast. 3



### As I swept, dusted, and scrubbed 4


### alongside my friend on that Saturday, it slowly 5



### dawned on me that his all

- out effort was 6



### motiva ted in large part by what you might call a 7


### code of honor among military families. You have 8


### a duty to those who follow you. You owe it to 9


### the next family to restore your living quarters 10


### to tip

- top shape before you go on to your next 11



### post of duty. 12



### Now at 66 I can't say what or where God 13


### has in mind for my next post of duty. Unless I 14


### clean up my act soon, I may be going someplace 15



### that looks and feels a lot more like God's idea 16


### of Afghanistan than Hawaii, but while this story 17


### may work well enough for me, it 's actually a very 18


### poor metaphor for the gravity of the threat of 19


### climate change, which really goes far beyond the 20



### threat that soot, ash, and trash pose to our 21


### environment and our health. But as long as I'm 22

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### still around, I'll do my part to restore our 1



### cor ner of mother Earth to somewhat the same shape 2


### as I found her upon my arrival way back in 1948 3


### at the dawn of history. 4


### That's what I feel is a duty I owe to 5



### those who follow, and that's why I pray that you 6


### will put in place, monitor, and above all enforce 7


### a strong Clean Power Plan to limit industrial 8


### carbon pollution from coal

- fired power plants. 9


### Science is settled; climate change driven 10


### by global warming poses an existential threat to 11


### all Americans. We have a sacred duty to leave 12



### our children with a saf e climate, and I have in 13


### mind the young people who came into the room just 14


### a couple minutes ago. But like my friend in the 15


### story, we are falling behind schedule in our 16


### cleanup job, and we really do need to catch up 17



### fast. 18


### Carbon emissions are the primary cause of 19


### global warming, and coal

- fired plants are the 20


### primary cause of carbon emissions in the USA. 21


### Your Clean Power Plan is a great start, but 22

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### please press on and ensure that it's only the 1


### beginning of our honorable cleanup job. For it's 2


### fair to say th e entire world will be watching us 3



### very closely today to see how well we do, and 4


### something tells me that God will be watching too. 5


### Thank you very much for the opportunity 6



### to speak today. 7


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you very much, sir. 8



### Mr. Todd? 9



### MR. TODD: Yes. Thank you. M y name, as 10


### you said, is Stephen. I am resident of 11


### Hummelstown, Pennsylvania. That's in Dauphin 12


### County. I am a municipal engineer by trade and 13


### an environmental engineer by training. 14



### The EPA's proposed standard should be 15



### adopted as soon as possible without being changed 16


### in any way. As the science has now proven beyond 17



### any reasonable doubt, the effect of manmade 18


### global climate change, it is imperative to leave 19


### a livable planet for future generations, not only 20


### for but estate planning for my 12

- year

- old son 21



### Derrick, but also for children of those of lesser 22

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### means worldwide, who really have no chance to 1


### affect climate change. 2


### Lakota grandmother, Debra White Plume, 3


### recently said, "We must protect our sacred water. 4


### For us this is spiritual work. " I feel the same 5



### way, no less sacred though than the water we 6



### drink, of course, is the air we breathe. 7


### Here in Pennsylvania we create nearly 1 8


### percent of the entire world's total heat trapping 9


### emissions, far disproportionate to our 10


### population, and Dauph in County, where I live, had 11



### 210 asthma attacks, 27 heart attacks, and 15 12


### deaths in 2012 caused by power plants pollution, 13


### according to research of the Clean Air Task 14



### Force. 15



### Statistics like these are all the reason 16


### the EPA needs to implement the proposed standard. 17


### Implementing the standard will be a start to 18


### addressing carbon dioxide emissions problems. It 19


### will not magically scrub our atmosphere of its 20



### excess carbon dioxide, but it is a sound and 21


### admirable beginning. 22

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### The EPA should consider what will ha ppen 1


### if it decides not to implement the standard or to 2


### water it down. Power plants will continue to 3


### dump unlimited amounts of carbon pollution into 4


### all of our air for free. They, the American 5


### public, and the world will receive the message 6



### from the EPA th at the US has no interest in 7


### adopting reasonable carbon pollution safeguards 8


### to slow climate change. That is, of course, a 9



### disastrous outcome, and it would doom 10


### Pennsylvania, the US, and the planet to a future 11


### with poor air quality, rising temperatures, a nd 12



### frequent extreme weather. 13


### Please implement the standard, again, as 14


### written and as soon as you possibly can, and 15


### remember on your way to doing that that natural 16



### gas

- fired power plants are not the total answer. 17


### Clean energy is our only ultimate answer a nd 18


### natural gas is not clean energy either. 19


### Thank you very much for the opportunity. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. And let 21


### me, again, thank all of the speakers who are with 22

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### us today. I really appreciate you being here. I 1



### also want to thank others who c ame to listen. 2


### Your presence is equally appreciated. So thank 3



### you one and all. 4



### Next I'd like to call Michelle Na ccarati 5


### and George Ratliff. My apologies for any 6


### mispronunciation. 7



### Ms. Naccarati? 8



### MS. NACCARATI

- CHAPKIS: Good morning. My 9



### name is Mich elle Naccarati Chapkis, N

- a

- c

- c

- a

- r

10



### a

- t

- I, hyphen, Chapkis, C

- h

- a

- p

- k

- i

- s. 11



### I am here today on behalf of Women for a 12


### Healthy Environment, located in Pittsburgh. Our 13


### mission is to educate and empower women and those 14



### who love them to act as ambassadors abou t 15


### environmental risks so that they can make healthy 16



### choices for themselves and their families and 17



### advocate for change for a better tomorrow for 18



### all. 19


### We carry out this mission by educating 20


### the public about environmental exposures that 21


### impact human health a nd by advocating for policy 22

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### solutions that improve the quality of life for 1


### ourselves and for our region. 2


### Women for a Health Environment strongly 3


### supports the EPA's proposed emission guidelines 4


### to address greenhouse gas emissions from existing 5



### fossil fuel

- fired electric generating units. We 6


### urge EPA to implement these guidelines promptly 7


### and without being weakened in any way. Unlimited 8


### carbon pollution from power plants fuels climate 9


### change, which worsens air quality and threatens 10


### public health. 11



### Pennsylv ania's air quality has been 12


### diminished for decades, especially in 13


### southwestern Pennsylvania. In fact, southwestern 14



### PA has not been re

- designated to attainment 15


### status for ozone exposure by the Environmental 16


### Protection Agency. Over the years there have 17



### bee n many reports, statistics, and additional 18


### research released documenting the poor air 19


### quality in our region. Below are brief summaries 20


### of these findings. 21


### The American Lung Association's 2014 22

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### State of the Air Report ranked Pittsburgh the 1


### sixth worst city in the country for both the 2


### amount of fine particles, PM 2.5 in the air, 3



### known as short

- term particle pollution, as well 4


### as year round particle pollution. 5


### From 2011 to 2013, the University of 6


### Pittsburgh Center for Healthy Environments and 7



### Communities r eleased the Pittsburgh Regional 8


### Environmental Threat Analysis , PRETA, which these 9


### reports focus on ozone particulate matter and 10


### hazardous air pollutants. This series of reports 11


### presented information about major threats to 12



### human health in the environment w ithin the 13


### southwestern Pennsylvania region. 14


### Each of these reports consistently refers 15


### to a major industrial source, coal

- fired power 16


### plants, as a major contributor to the negative 17


### health effects experienced by residents of our 18


### region. In particular, 6 5 percent of primary 19


### particulate matter in the (inaudible) region 20


### results from electrical generation. 21



### In 2013, the Heinz Endowments released 22

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### Clearing the Haze, Understanding Western 1


### Pennsylvania's Air Pollution Problem . The report 2



### indicates that over tim e health studies have 3


### found stronger associations between air pollution 4



### and serious health effects with indications of 5


### harm at concentrations previously believed to be 6



### safe. 7



### The Post Gazette ' s Mapping Mortality 8



### series that ran in December 2010 referenced 2,833 9



### excess deaths from 2000 to 2008, based on 10



### national death rates in the 14

- county region of 11


### southwestern PA for heart, and respiratory 12


### disease, and lung cancer diseases that have been 13


### linked to air pollution exposure, especially 14



### those generated by coal

- fired power plants. 15


### And then according to the PA Department 16



### of Health, our state has seen an increase from 17


### 2004 to 2008 in the hospitalization rate for 18


### people with asthma, ages 5 to 64 and 65 and 19


### older. The report also notes an increase in the 20



### percentag e of persons exposed to harmful air 21



### pollutants, up from 62 percent to 81.1 percent. 22

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### What do all of these reports and 1


### scientific studies tell us? There is a linkage 2


### between poor air quality and adverse health 3


### conditions, and we must look to the leadership of 4


### the EPA to save our public health and the 5



### environment. 6


### The Pittsburgh region fails to meet 7


### current air quality standards for fine 8


### particulate in ozone, which means that the people 9


### living in the region continue to breathe harmful 10


### levels of air pollutio n. 11


### Our regions' health is significantly 12


### impacted by pollution from coal

- fired power 13


### plants. We have an increased risk for cancer, 14



### heart attacks, strokes, premature death, asthma, 15


### and other respiratory conditions. Vulnerable 16


### populations, including those with asthma and 17


### COPD, children, the elderly, and those living 18



### within communities where these sources are 19


### located are especially at risk. 20


### We support EPA's use of the following 21


### factors to calculate state goals for reducing 22

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### carbon dioxide emissions

- improvi ng energy 1


### efficiency at fossil fuel plants and operating 2


### existing low greenhouse gas

- emitting sources more 3



### frequently. We would also encourage EPA to take 4


### into consideration the progress made from zero 5


### low emission electric generating units in energy 6



### dema nd through consumer efficiencies. 7



### I have more, but I'm at red. So I'll 8


### just submit my comments. Thank you. 9


### MR. KOERBER: All right. Thank you so 10



### much. 11



### MR. Ratliff? 12



### MR. RATLIFF: That's R

- a

- t

- l

- i

- f

- f. 13


### The proposed 30 percent reduction in 14



### gr eenhouse gas emissions cannot stop climate 15


### change; that would require a 90 percent 16


### reduction, which is impossible with the exiting 17



### renewable energy technology. Before the EPA can 18


### mandate 90 percent, we need either cheaper 19



### batteries for windmills and solar panels or a 20


### cheaper way to concentrate sunlight for 21



### concentrated solar power; that's called CSP for 22

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### short. 1



### I have patented a cheaper way to 2


### concentrate sunlight for CSP. Compared to 3


### recently completed CSP plants in California and 4



### Nevada, which use m irrors on heliostats, plants 5


### with this new solar concentrator would produce 6


### twice as much power per mirror, eliminating 95 7


### percent of the mirrors and gear boxes, and 8


### increase the precision of focusing sunlight. 9


### CPA plants with heliostats have never 10



### been n ever been successful, including the first 11


### one tried near Barstow, California, 35 years ago. 12


### For example, those new plants in California were 13


### completed a year ago and cost $3 billion, and 14


### it's my understanding that they still do not 15



### produce nearly enough p ower to justify their 16



### cost. 17



### I submit that the world's fixation on 18


### heliostats for CSP during the past 35 years has 19


### been the principle obstacle to the control of 20


### climate change. To make CSP plants economically 21



### feasible, it will take a drastic reduction in 22

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### cost, such as I am claiming. 1


### Here are the details of my proposed solar 2


### concentrator. Sunlight is focused with mirrors 3


### on a receiver on a tower, but instead of being 4


### attached to stationary heliostats, the mirrors 5



### move on concentric tracks around the tow er 6


### synchronized with the sun's movement across the 7


### sky to keep the mirrors on the opposite side of 8


### the tower from the sun. Each morning, the 9


### mirrors face the rising sun in the East, and by 10


### sunset they are facing w est, having rotated 180 11



### degrees about a ve rtical axis, using the radar of 12



### the tracks for leverage. 13


### Because of this extreme leverage, the 14


### focusing is precise. As the sun's altitude 15


### changes, the mirrors must tilt and yaw to keep 16


### sunlight focused on the receiver. The formulas 17


### for tilting and ya wing reveal that this can be 18


### done collectively to eliminate most of the motors 19


### and gearboxes required on heliostats. Guidelines 20


### stabilize the mirrors against wind and also tilt 21


### and yaw the mirrors collectively. The details of 22

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### this are explained in my US patent 7380549. 1


### CSP has performed poorly in the past, 2


### even though it has been confined to places with 3


### very intense direct sunlight, places like 4



### California and Nevada, but with this new and more 5


### efficient CSP, there would be enough direct 6


### sunlight for CSP in most states. Therefore, the 7


### EPA should mandate a greenhouse gas reduction of 8


### more than 30 percent and begin phasing in solar 9


### power before it is too late. There is no safer 10


### method of stopping climate change. Thank you. 11


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 12


### Next I'd like to call Stacy Wickett and 13



### Anna Berch

- Norton. 14



### Ms. Wickett? 15


### MS. WICKETT: Stacy Wickett, S

- t

- a

- c

- y, 16



### W

- i

- c

- k

- e

- t

- t. I'm Stacy. I live in Pittsburgh, 17


### and I'm here to stand in full support of the 18


### EPA's proposal to limit carbon pollution from 19



### p ower plants. 20



### Over the past few months, I've worked to 21


### help collect public comments from people across 22

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### western Pennsylvania. I've spoken with hundreds 1


### of people and heard directly from the public how 2


### they feel. While the vast majority of those I've 3



### sp oken with are in favor of these new carbon 4



### rules, there's only one common problem that gets 5


### brought up, and that's job. 6


### As a young person in our rough economy, 7


### I'm certainly concerned about finding a good 8


### career. However, this proposal goes much farther 9


### than just some small threat of losing jobs. This 10


### proposal gives us the opportunity to 11


### revolutionize our economy. Coal industry 12


### executives are concerned about losing out if they 13


### fail to transition, but we can use this proposal 14



### to transform int o something bigger and better. 15



### In 2011, the solar sector saw record 16


### growth, surpassing almost every other part of our 17


### economy. This creates jobs. Transitioning to 18


### more sustainable energy creates jobs everywhere 19


### from university research centers to administrator 20



### offi ces and manufacturing plants. Many of these 21


### are union jobs, and they're going to be at the 22

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### forefront of our nation's economy over the next 1



### several decades. 2


### If anything, this proposal is a long 3


### overdue step towards moving our economy into the 4



### 21st cent ury, and I'm proud of the EPA for taking 5


### that step. But it is absolutely shameful that 6


### these corporations that have never once looked 7



### out for their workers best interest are now 8


### trying to manipulate the facts as a scare tactic, 9


### as though their only concer n is for the jobs. 10


### Their concern is their margin profit, and it's 11


### about time we put those profits behind the 12



### concerns for the health and safety of all of us. 13



### Thank you. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you very much. 15



### Ms. Berch

- Norton? 16



### MS. BERCH

- NORTON: My name is Anna Berch

17



### Norton. That's spelled B

- e

- r

- c

- h, hyphen, N

- o

- r

18



### t

- o

- n. Thanks. 19


### I live in Pittsburgh, and I'm here to 20


### stand fully in support of the EPA's proposal to 21


### limit carbon pollution from existing power 22

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### plants. Growing up, I've always known the 1



### danger ous effects of pollution. My dad, a 2


### lifelong non

- smoker, has lung cancer that was 3


### most likely caused by the terrible air quality in 4



### this area. 5


### Pennsylvania is the third worst state for 6


### carbon pollution, and the Pittsburgh Post Gazette 7


### has reported in the past on cancer requesters in 8


### many areas of western Pennsylvania. In addition, 9


### nearly 7 million children nationwide suffer from 10


### asthma, and every single day 36,000 children miss 11


### school due to asthma. Air pollution has been 12


### proven to trigger asthma attack s, causing these 13



### kids to suffer. 14


### Of course I support this proposal, but 15



### when I look at the long

- term health effects of 16


### pollution and how much worse we're making it 17


### through completely unregulated carbon emissions, 18



### I have to wonder what took us so long. Why do we 19


### even have to argue that it's our nation's 20


### responsibility to look out for the health and 21


### safety of all of us? Why has it been acceptable 22

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### for us to care more about the profits of 1



### multibillionaires than those 7 million children 2



### with asthma? 3



### The U nited Nations has reported that 4


### nearly 1,000 children worldwide die every day 5


### because of global warming. If left unchecked, 6


### climate change could be a health and humanitarian 7


### crisis beyond anything humanity has ever seen. 8


### I'm more than willing to pay a bi t more 9


### on my monthly electric bill if it means we can 10


### start to save all those lives. Thank you. 11



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both. 12



### Next I'd like to call Barbara Pace and 13



### John Nagle. 14


### MS. PACE: Do you want to go first. 15



### MR. NAGLE: No. You were called first

. 16



### MS. PACE: Okay. I'm glad you 17


### remembered. It's easier for me to stand, if you 18



### don't mind. 19


### As he said, my name is Barbara Pace. 20


### It's P as in pickle, a

- c

- e. I am so pleased that 21



### there's young people here. Even though they're 22

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### playing games and readin g and not listening to 1


### everything we're saying, the impact as they grow 2



### up, they'll be able to remember that. So that's, 3


### dad, for bringing them, and those two young 4


### girls. That was very encouraging. 5


### Obviously being old and gray, I've been 6


### living with th is pollution for a long, long time, 7


### and I really value you guys coming to Pittsburgh. 8


### I hope you get to see the city and not just these 9


### boring walls. It's a gorgeous city. 10



### I value your efforts to conduct these 11


### hearings, specifically in these regions whe re a 12


### lot of pollution is being generated that is 13


### affecting everybody's health, not just in these 14


### United States but globally. 15



### I have tried to research and discover 16


### exactly what the differences are between your 17


### peers at Environmental Protection Agency, the 18


### Department of Environmental Protection, and even 19



### our Allegheny County Department of Health. There 20


### appears to be so many overlapping 21


### responsibilities and lack of accountability. 22

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### I'm part of Clean Water Action Committee 1



### member, and we have repeatedly quest ioned all the 2


### aforementioned agencies asking who can accomplish 3



### enforcements to make our air, water, land free of 4


### carcinogens. I'm the daughter, sister, niece of 5


### local iron workers. My father and brother worked 6


### on a erecting power plants in Beaver County and 7


### throughout this tri

- state area. 8


### My efforts to obtain clean environment 9



### have caused me to take verbal abuse from those 10



### who do not truly understand the long

- term costs 11



### of our health. 12


### Our group was formally called Neville 13


### Island Good Neighbor. We'r e in the process of 14


### finding and changing our name to represent more 15



### accurately who and what we are about. Shenango 16


### Chemical resides on Neville Island. They are 17


### owned and operated by DT based in Detroit. Our 18


### committee believes that Shenango has blanketly 19


### ignored the clean air guidelines and would rather 20


### pay the fines than operate under the letter of 21



### the law. A lot of recent research has discovered 22

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### even the laws we currently have passed are not 1



### enforced or even strong enough, as currently 2



### written, to reac h the goals of good health for 3


### the entire planet. 4


### Most of our energies as clean water 5


### members, formerly called Neville Island Good 6


### Neighbors, were spent trying to negotiate less 7


### pollution being emitted from Shenango's smoke 8


### stacks on Neville Island. They did a very good 9


### job of courting us for close to two years. They 10


### fed us. Met with us regularly, but the 11


### improvements were not coming along at the pace we 12


### were desiring. They spent thousands of dollars 13


### flying in representatives from Texas and Detroit, 14



### mo nies that could have been spent on their quench 15


### towers. As their personnel kept changi ng over 16


### the two years we found it of interest that none 17


### of the managers were living in the vicinity of 18


### their place of employment. Often they had their 19


### families residing in adjoining counties of 20



### Allegheny. 21


### We finally refused to be used as pawns 22

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### anymore and no longer are meeting with Shenango. 1


### They proved not to be good neighbors. 2


### Sadly, even our meetings with our 3


### Allegheny County Health Department felt like our 4



### conce rns are not being met. When large community 5


### meetings were set up, many of the residents left 6


### angry and frustrated. Their comments were, "We 7


### didn't need slide presentations on how a co

- plant 8



### works." 9


### If we break the law while driving, we 10



### lose our driver 's licenses. Why is Shenango 11


### paying fines, and there is no accountability for 12



### file actions? Must we have a three

- mile island 13


### catastrophe, a love canal disaster to warrant 14


### enough publicity to get these agencies that have 15


### protection and health in their giv en names to see 16


### the results we can all live with? Will big 17


### industry seeking profits at the expense of our 18



### health always have more power over you and our 19


### elected politicians forwarding our efforts? What 20


### can we little people do effectively to produce 21



### chang es in our environment? We write letters. 22

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### We meet with politicians. We attend meetings. 1


### We vote. What will you do with these comments 2


### from these various cities you have been listening 3



### to? 4


### Possibly some of you can remember when 5



### Pete Seeger sang some of the music Woody Guthrie 6


### composed, "Pittsburgh is a smoky old town, and 7


### this land is our land." We might not have dark 8



### skies in the afternoons as we did in the 40s and 9


### 50s, but these invisible cancer pollutants are 10


### just as compromising to our existence

. 11


### Thank you for listening. Please care to 12



### do your best to make changes for the current and 13



### future health of us all. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you very much. 15



### Mr. Nagle? 16



### MR. NAGLE: John Nagle, N

- a

- g

- l

- e. I 17


### thank the EPA for giving me the opportunity to 18



### comm ent on its Clean Power Plan proposal for 19


### greenhouse gas reduction from all the acronyms in 20


### the proposal, EGUs, electrical generating units. 21



### MR. KOERBER: I'm sorry. We're 22

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### government. We can't help ourselves. 1


### MR. NAGLE: And I thank this panel for 2



### agree ing to, you know, listen to us for this two

3



### day marathon. It must be

-- it must be tough to 4



### pace. 5


### MR. KOERBER: It's our pleasure, sir. 6


### MR. NAGLE: I appreciate the hard work 7


### and due diligence that the EPA has put into 8


### producing a well

- crafted proposal that 9


### continuously asks for specific comments, which I 10


### will get to. 11


### I'm a professor emeritus at Carnegie 12


### Mellon University here in Pittsburgh in the 13


### fields of physics and biology. 14


### Ten years ago I taught a course entitled 15


### Energy and Environmental Issues . At that time 16



### one could still make a case, albeit a rather weak 17


### one, that manmade global warming might not be 18


### occurring. So my course encouraged debate among 19


### the students. It was a rather lopsided debate, 20



### even then. I'm very pleased that the EPA 21



### doesn 't, you know

-- chooses to emphasize the 22

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### scientific consensus and we're beyond that. Most 1



### of us are beyond that debate. 2


### More recently, Carnegie Mellon bestowed a 3


### prestigious $50,000 Dixon prize award on Jared 4



### Diamond for his book entitled Collapse
, which I 5


### encourage people to read, because this book 6


### serves as a warning to us today. It describes 7


### several civilizations that collapsed, sometimes 8


### by its people not being able to recognize an 9



### existential threat. 10


### Fortunately, science recognizes the 11



### thre at of global warming, and I'm pleased that 12


### the EPA proposal emphasizes that. However, many 13


### of Diamond's civilizations collapsed because they 14



### didn't have the will to deal with the threat that 15


### was staring them in the face. That's the 16



### challenge we have toda y. 17


### It's important to recognize also that it 18



### took hundreds of years for those collapses to 19


### occur. Rather like the impending irreversible 20


### collapse of the western Antarctic ice cap, which 21



### is now considered to be irreversible. The EPA 22

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### document well

- apprecia tes the long

- term nature of 1



### the existential climate threat. Action must be 2


### taken to eliminate greenhouse gases before it 3



### becomes too late to prevent the consequences of 4


### global warming mentioned in the EPA document. 5


### Now, in response to EPA's solicitation 6


### for specific comments, I have a Baker's dozen. 7


### As there isn't time to read all 13, I will place 8


### my written comments in the record. But the 9


### general thrust of my comments is to urge EPA to 10


### adopt the strongest possible regulations that 11


### will reduce greenhous e gas emissions the most and 12



### the fastest. 13



### So for the BSER, that's the Best Systems 14



### Energy Redu ction, again, another acronym, I like 15


### option one because it has the most reduction, but 16


### I also like option two because it has faster 17



### reductions. So I would l ike to combine the best 18


### in the two. I know that may be politically 19


### impossible, but that's my

-- what I would like. 20


### Natural gas is not the long

- term 21


### solution, even discounting concerns about getting 22

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### fracked. So I definitely concur with the EPA 1



### that the B SER should include building blocks 2


### three and four and not limit it to just building 3



### blocks one and two. 4


### Considering that the projected 5


### electricity price increase from this plan is less 6


### than seven percent, I think it's quite 7



### affordable. Indeed, we should be willing as a 8


### society to pay a lot more, especially as EPA's 9



### estimate of health co

- benefits is even greater 10


### than the cost of greenhouse gas reduction under 11


### the plan. So it looks like a win

- win situation, 12



### frankly. 13



### Even though I'm concerned that the 14



### prop osal does not go far enough, fast enough, it 15


### is certainly a step in the right direction. It 16


### should encourage more rational planning that 17


### might help avert the collapse of the sort 18


### described in Diamond's book. So I generally 19



### support the EPA proposal and of fer my specific 20



### comments on it. 21


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thanks for 22

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### the reading tip. 1



### Next I'd like to call Robert Baker and 2



### Paul Fischbeck. 3



### Mr. Baker, when you're ready. 4



### MR. BAKER: Okay. B

- a

- k

- e

- r. 5


### I'm from the state of Virginia, and I 6



### speak t oday on the emergency situation in the 7


### United States and other nations suffering 8


### destruction from the low technology, green hoke's 9


### (phonetic) policies, and from looting by Wall 10


### Street and City of London vultures. 11


### We can stop this catastrophe. We must 12



### du mp Wall Street. Green policy alternative 13


### energy is a fraud. Overheating Earth is a fraud. 14



### We must cancel the EPA rule and move forward with 15


### a massive economic development. Move forward 16


### with nuclear power to an advanced economic base 17


### with a crash progra m for fusion energy. That's 18



### what coal is for. Use it. A new alliance of 19



### nations called the BRICS, B

- R

- I

- C

- S , Group is 20


### doing just that. 21


### The immediate emergency measures required 22

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### are to launch

-- we have a runaway situation 1


### politically. We muc h impeach the president. 2



### Reinstate the Glass

- Steagall Act for which bills 3


### stand ready in Congress and then proceed to step 4


### up a traditional American credit system through 5


### which we can initiate great infrastructure 6


### projects and science. 7


### People are sufferi ng and dying for lack 8



### of this. Even worse, we face mass annihilation 9



### from thermal nuclear war if the current 10



### administration is allowed to continue its war

11


### provoking policies in Eurasia, just as the 12


### previous Bush administration did before him. 13



### The counter poll to our current d oomsda y 14



### track of economic breakdown and war is the new 15


### worldwide opportunity presented by the BRICS 16



### nations, Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South 17



### Africa, whose leaders met in mid

- July earlier in 18


### South America and put on the world a genda plans 19


### for a new credit system, including a new 20


### development bank, commitments for dozens of 21


### nuclear power plants, new development corridors 22

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### across Eurasia called a New Silk Road, and such 1


### major infrastructure projects as a new Panama 2



### Canal across Nica ragua to connect the Atlantic 3



### and the Pacific; and work on that will start in 4



### January. 5



### When a gang of Wall Street vulture funds 6


### tried to oppose this initiative by hitting 7


### Argentina with wrongful demands of crushing debt, 8


### not only did the BRICS nations who represent 3 9


### billion people, but the group of 77 nations 10


### representing nearly all developing sector nations 11


### defended Argentina's sovereignty. 12


### We have the right and responsibility as 13


### nations to develop. That is what our nation 14



### stood for from the very be ginning. We settled 15


### new lands. We constantly raised our ability to 16


### produce from our farms, our factories, and our 17


### minds. We grew in population, skills, and 18


### science. We led the world, going from wood, to 19



### charcoal, to anthracite, to bituminous, to coke, 20


### to oil, to gas, and then nuclear. We have 21


### Tennessee Valley Authority in our coal states 22

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### where the Oakridge Center harnessed atomic power. 1



### We had Atoms for Peace and plan for mass nuclear

2


### powered sea water desalinization for the dry 3



### west, which we need de sperately now. 4


### We had the first commercial nuclear power 5


### plants in the nation here in western Pennsylvania 6


### in Shippingport in 1957. We went to the moon. 7



### But what happened? 8


### We were hit by a subversion operation 9


### about 50 years ago. The foreign network s of 10


### financial and oligarchic circles of the Neo

11


### British empire succeeded in imposing floating 12


### world currency rates, implementing a battery of 13



### anti

- nation state measures, the WTO and 14


### globalized trade, deregulation of energy, 15


### transportation, healthcare, eli mination of farm 16


### parity prices, elimination of the Glass

- Steagall 17


### law, which protected banking from speculation and 18


### much more. Bubble economics ensued to the point 19



### of the 2007 blowout, and a monster one, even 20


### bigger, is pending today. 21



### In parallel, the gr een movement was 22

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### cooked up in a British imperial mind

- controlled 1


### test tube by the same group. It is a lie that 2


### mans' activities are overheating the Earth. The 3



### CO 2 

### is a pollutant, and alternatives are wind, 4



### solar, and biofuel. 5


### MR. KOERBER: Time to wrap up your 6


### testimony, sir. 7



### MR. BAKER: First we need to reenact the 8



### Glass

- Steagall law, restore a traditional system 9



### of top

- down national banking. We need to 10


### initiate a federal credit system to launch 11


### projects for massive infrastructure development 12



### and adop t a crash program for fusion power. 13



### Thank you. 14


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. And my 15


### apologies about the ringing phone. Again, if I 16


### could remind people to put your phones on vibrate 17



### so they don't bother the speakers. Thank you. 18



### Mr. Fischbeck? 19



### MR. FIS CHBECK: Good morning. I am Paul 20



### Fischbeck, F

- i

- s

- c

- h

- b

- e

- c

- k. 21


### I'm a professor at Carnegie Mellon 22

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### University and part of a research team with Hybo, 1


### Jay, and Jeff Anderson. We are studying the 2


### proposed EPA regulation on reducing carbon 3


### emissions from pow er plants. 4


### We concur that any approach with this 5


### goal must be multifaceted, combining reductions 6


### in consumption, increases in generation for 7


### renewables, and changes in how some coal and gas 8


### plants operate. The building blocks concept that 9



### the proposal re gulation has captures these 10


### important elements. 11


### The EPA has defined specific goals for 12



### each state, and these are constructed from state 13



### and national level statistics. However, a 14


### specific state will have to put together a plan 15


### to meet its defined goal, an d they will require 16


### detailed information on specific power plants and 17


### how they operate. This is what we are studying 18


### at Carnegie Mellon. 19


### We are developing an engineering

- based 20


### analytical approach to compare a range of options 21


### for lowering the carbon inte nsity of the power 22

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### generation system in the United States, where 1


### carbon intensity is defined as pounds of CO 2 

### per 2



### megawatt hour. 3


### At the generating unit level, we have 4


### initial estimates on how expensive and effective 5


### six different carbon mitigation technol ogies will 6


### be. This is for all the generating units in the 7


### country. The technologies include co

- firing with 8


### different amounts of natural gas from 5 to 50 9


### percent, converting to more efficient boilers, 10


### supercritical and ultra

- supercritical, 11


### retrofitting e xisting boilers so that they are 12


### fired only by natural gas, dismantling existing 13


### coal plants and replacing them with new natural 14


### gas combined cycle at the same location, and also 15


### using varying levels of carbon capture and 16


### sequestration (CCS) from 10 to 90 percent. 17


### In addition, we have investigated various 18


### ways of modeling possible heat rate improvements 19


### for existing boilers. As we know, the existing 20


### power fleet is made up of a range of different 21


### unit types of different size and ages, and 22

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### different states have different mixes of these 1


### generating resources. 2



### One of the features of the EPA approach 3


### is that it allows states to pursue a range of 4


### techniques to reflect these differences. The 5


### approach that we are taking will allow states to 6


### assess these option s in a very systematic and 7


### quantitative way. 8


### Some coal plants are already compliant 9


### with knocks and socks regulations and generate 10


### power at low cost. Others are at the opposite 11


### end of the scale. They are dirty, inefficient, 12



### and costly to operate. If th ese better plants 13


### are near large, known, natural gas pipelines or 14


### perhaps even stable, easily accessible CO 

## 2 15


### storage formations, then mitigating carbon from 16


### these better plants will be much, much, much more 17


### cost effective and potentially competitive with 18



### o ther generation options. This is what we found. 19



### These factors must be evaluated to 20


### develop a prioritization of options to reduce 21


### carbon intensity cost effectively. To meet the 22

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### specific EPA goals, each state will need a tool 1



### that helps them compare the f ull range of 2


### available options for making hardware and 3


### operational changes at the individual coal unit 4


### level to relying more heavily on cleaner 5


### resources like energy efficiency and renewable 6



### energy. 7


### By emphasizing other resources, perhaps a 8



### state can meet its target without any changes to 9


### its coal fleet. We don't know yet. That’s what 10


### we're looking at. Or will some plants need a new 11


### set of technologies added, and perhaps even 12



### others need to be retired. Tools like the one we 13


### are developing will be very helpful to states as 14


### they make plans to implement these important 15



### standards. Thank you. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both 17


### for being here today. We appreciate hearing from 18



### both of you. 19



### Next I'd like to call Michael Nixon and 20



### Dan Sullivan. 21



### Mr. Ni xon, when you're ready. 22

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### MR. NIXON: Yes. It's Michael Nixon, M

1



### i

- c

- h

- a

- e

- l, Nixon, N

- i

- x

- o

- n. And this 2


### testimony is being presented today on behalf of 3


### the Center for Biological Diversity, which has 4


### offices nationwide and works collaboratively with 5



### a glo bal perspective. 6


### President Obama's proposed limits on 7


### carbon pollution are an important step forward to 8


### mitigate climate disruption are not nearly 9


### adequate to the scale of the problem. Science 10


### demonstrates that the rule is not stringent 11


### enough to avoid t he worst impacts of global 12


### climate disruption. This is a draft rule, and 13


### the president and the EPA need to strengthen it 14


### significantly. I will just note that math kids 15


### understand that if you take half steps, you never 16


### get where you're going. 17



### The rule bu ilds in way too much delay, 18


### until 2030, before reductions might be achieved. 19


### The rule is right to propose measures beyond the 20


### fence of power plants but wrong in how it goes 21


### about accomplishing that. The current draft 22

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### encourages even more natural gas use and 1


### exacerbates the unfolding fracking disaster, and 2


### the rule is wrong on the math. It undercounts 3



### the danger and leakage rate of methane and 4


### seriously underestimates the costs of climate 5



### change damage. 6



### Another defect in this draft rule allows 7



### states to bypass renewables in energy 8


### conservation. Reduction targets are woefully 9



### inefficient and should be increased because, 10


### among other reasons, the targets are too lenient. 11


### State targets add up to a national goal that will 12


### not avert the worst impacts of clima te change. 13


### Scientists warn developed countries must 14


### reduce their economy

- wide emissions 50 percent 15



### below 1990 levels by the year 2020 to have a 16


### medium chance of keeping warming to 2 degrees 17



### Celsius. 18


### Overall, progress in reducing greenhouse 19



### gases should b e based on emissions in 1990, the 20


### Kyoto Protocol baseline, not emissions in 2012. 21


### The international community has used 1990 as a 22

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### baseline ever since the Kyoto Protocol. 1


### Substantial reduction should be required 2


### sooner, by 2020, not a decade later in 2030, with 3


### even much greater reductions required later in 4



### the future. 5


### Greenhouse gases remain in the atmosphere 6


### from decades to centuries after they are 7


### released, so they have a strong and persistent 8



### cumulative effect. And because emissions must 9


### peak within t he next few years and decline 10


### sharply thereafter in order for us to be 11


### successful in this endeavor, waiting 15 years for 12


### meaningful reductions is an unacceptable, 13


### indefensible, and irresponsible delay. 14



### The rule encourages even more natural gas 15



### power gener ation. The EPA claims this would 16


### result in up to 40 percent emissions reductions, 17



### but that is incorrect. Like the earlier rule for 18


### new power plants, this draft rule doesn't require 19


### any increase in efficiency at existing natural 20


### gas plants and, thus, fail s to implement the 21



### technology

- forcing requirements of the Clean Air 22

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### Act. 1


### Now, I'll take just a moment to address 2



### the latest re

- looping of the old jobs versus the 3



### environment hokum and scare them tactic, which 4



### has been tro t out yet again, this time by the 5


### fossil fuel corporations who are trying to 6


### manipulate their workers and consumers and 7


### prevent the people of this country from doing 8


### something real and substantial in bringing 9


### positive change to the deadly climate situation 10


### currently threatening the United States and the 11



### world. 12



### There are 10 times fewer coal miners in 13


### this region now than there were in the previous 14


### generation, fewer miners but more and more coal 15


### was mined by the tons. And the fact that coal 16


### mining jobs are disappearing is not because of 17



### the Clean Air Act. It is primarily because the 18


### coal industry has been replacing coal miners with 19


### giant machines, all the while on a massive scale 20


### destroying our environment, our land, our 21


### aquifers, or drinking water, our rivers, and 22

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### streams, and their headwa ters, our rural and 1


### agriculture community life, and the very air that 2



### we all breath e

. 3


### There is actually a greater future for 4


### employment for people in greener technologies and 5


### alternative energy industries than working for 6


### the desperate fossil fuel corpora tions trying to 7


### hold their reign over from the previous century. 8


### A greater future is one of the ultimate 9


### goals and attributes of the technology

- forcing 10


### provisions of the Clean Air Act. The stricter 11


### regulation of carbon emissions will require more 12



### and mor e people doing the new and critical work 13


### necessary to mitigate the damage brought by our 14


### fossil fuel past and present. 15


### Thank you for coming to Pittsburgh and 16


### for heeding these comments. The Center will be 17


### submitting final written comments before the 18



### dead line, particularly emphasizing the menace of 19



### (inaudible) and methane. 20


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you for being here. 21



### Mr. Sullivan? 22

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### MR. SULLIVAN: Hi. I'm Dan Sullivan. 1



### It's D

- a

- n, S

- u

- l

- l

- i

- v

- a

- n. 2


### I am the director of Saving Communities, 3



### and I have b een featured in magazines. Fortune 4


### Magazine did an article, Higher Taxes that 5



### promote Development . I've been sent to Ireland 6


### and paid by Irish groups to speak about global 7


### warming and the economics of it there. 8


### I am not a global warming denier, nor am 9



### I a member of the apocalypse of the month club. 10


### I am looking at this strictly in terms of the 11



### idea that if CO 2 

### emission is a little bit bad or 12


### very bad, it doesn't much matter because we tax 13


### things that are very, very good. 14


### And this complicated regulatory proposal 15


### is not nearly as good as replacing

-- in a 16


### revenue neutral kind of way, replacing payroll 17


### taxes with a simple tax on carbon emission. The 18



### increased tax on carbon emission will cost some 19


### jobs but not nearly as many jobs as a decrease in 20



### payroll t axes will create. 21


### There's no more direct way to destroy 22

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### jobs than to tax payroll, and this is one of 1


### those things that's obvious enough that you'd get 2


### support from across the political spectrum. 3


### You've read the writings of Milton Fre e dman
, or 4



### Joseph S tigletts, Martin Luther King, or William 5


### F. Buckley, and you get a classical approach, a 6


### market approach to these things, which is that 7


### you owe rent to the community for putting 8


### something we don't like into our air. You owe 9


### rent to the community for tying up the land, and 10


### you owe rent to the community for polluting the 11


### water. And it's so simple and straightforward 12



### that it's

-- it's just obviously politics as to 13


### why we don't take this approach. 14


### There is a big problem with a ny kind of 15



### standard system that grandfathers in existing 16


### technologies in that it actually can slow down 17


### the transition to a cleaner system. If I can 18


### build a power plants that would be very expensive 19


### to build, but it would have half the pollution 20


### per amount of electricity generated, it e nds up 21


### that I not only have to meet higher standards, 22

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### but in the way these things usually shake out, I 1


### have to buy pollution credits from somebody who 2


### has got a cheap dirty plant. 3


### So you got the guy the cheap dirty plant, 4


### who, if he was paying a carbon tax, would not be 5


### nearly as competitive with me who has a new clean 6


### plant, but he not only gets his grandfathered 7



### allotment; but he gets to

-- if I do steal 8


### business from him, I have to buy pollution 9



### credits from him. 10



### And this works

-- you can see this with 11


### the oil refinery in Philadelphia. The oldest oil 12


### refinery in the Eastern United States, the 13


### dirtiest and by far the most hazardous because 14


### it's right next to the highest density population 15


### in Pennsylvania, almost the same as Brooklyn, and 16



### you look at that really dirty plant, and you say 17


### why aren't anybody building new plants. And the 18


### reason is a new plant has to

-- is very 19


### expensive. It has to pay itself off. It has to 20


### meet higher environmental standards that are not 21


### imposed on the Philadelphia pla nt, and they would 22

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### build a new plant if not for the fact that the 1


### Philadelphia plant, as dirty and nasty as it is, 2


### can churn out gasoline a lot cheaper than a new 3



### plant can. 4



### So a new plant would only get to sell 5


### gasoline during those peak demand times, an d that 6


### grandfathering in is by far the very worst aspect 7


### of these regulations. And rather than try to fix 8


### it because it's very difficult to fix, if you 9


### just said we're going to propose a revenue 10


### neutral shift off of payroll taxes and on to 11



### carbon emission s, you might get fewer coal, but 12


### you would get a lot more jobs overall. Thank 13



### you. 14


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thank you 15



### both. 16



### Next I'd like to call Jennifer Garrison 17



### and Robert Cies ie lski, and my apologies, sir, if 18



### I butchered your last name. 19



### MR. C IESIELSKI : No. You did a wonderful 20


### job. 21


### Ms. Garrison, when you're ready. 22

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### MS. GARRISON: Thank you. Jennifer 1



### Garrison, J

- e

- n

- n

- i

- f

- e

- r, G

- a

- r

- r

- i

- s

- o

- n. Good 2


### morning. And thank you for the opportunity to 3


### testify today. 4


### My name is Jennifer Garri son. I'm a 5


### former state representative, representing five 6



### counties in eastern Ohio. I was a representative 7


### on the Utility and Energy Committee. I'm also a 8


### democratic candidate for Congress in Ohio 6. 9


### I'm here this morning to testify in 10


### opposition to t he EPA's Clean Power Plan proposed 11



### rule. I believe coal is a reliable, abundant, 12


### domestic fuel source that provides us with 13


### affordable energy, and it also provides us with 14


### good paying jobs in eastern Ohio. 15


### The families in my part of Ohio rely upon 16



### these jobs. Mine workers, utility workers, 17


### boiler makers, all of these individuals rely on 18


### these jobs, and they will be placed at risk if 19


### these regulations are allowed to be implemented 20


### in their current form. And it's not just these 21


### families livelihood. The p roposed EPA regs on 22

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### coal

- fired power plants are unrealistic and, 1


### therefore, unfair to impose upon the American 2



### people. 3


### There are undoubtedly many exciting 4


### potential advancement in carbon capture 5


### sequestration and other potential technologies 6



### down the road , but we're not there yet. To 7


### comply with these regulations would require 8


### technology that is beyond anything that's 9


### currently feasible. I've listened to utility 10


### company executives express concern about 11



### additional coal

- fired power plants being taken 12



### offli ne. We have to remember, coal still 13



### accounts for nearly 40 percent of the power 14


### generated in the country, and it is extremely 15



### reliable. 16


### What if we face a polar vortex like we 17


### did this past winter? If these regulations 18


### hasten the closure of existing coal

- fired power 19


### plants, there could be serious consequences. 20


### I do support a diversified energy 21


### portfolio. I want to make certain the rules 22

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### consider the human impact of expensive 1


### electricity costs. There are far better 2


### solutions to the energy and environm ental 3



### challenges that our country face than the 4


### regulations we're discussing today. 5


### I support West Virginia Senator Joe 6


### Manchin's bill. He has proposed legislation that 7



### would lead to a cleaner energy future on a more 8


### realistic achievable timeline by requ iring the 9


### best existing technology while enabling the coal 10


### industry to continue to serve the vital role it 11


### plays in this region and in our country. This 12


### type of measured approach is a more appropriate 13



### solution. 14


### Therefore, in closing, I reiterate that I 15



### do oppose the EPA's proposed rule. I urge the 16



### administration to consider all the stakeholders, 17



### which include the families whose livelihoods 18


### would be impacted, the American citizens who 19


### enjoy the comfort of an abundant, reliable energy 20



### source, and to proce ed deliberately rather than 21


### hastefully into a safe secure energy future. 22

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### Thank you again for the opportunity to 1


### testify. I will be submitting written remarks. 2



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you for 3


### being here today. 4



### MS. GARRISON: Thank you. 5



### MR. CIESIELSKI: Good morning. I am 6



### Robert Ci esielski , C

- i

- e

- s

- i

- e

- l

- s

- k

- I, of the 7


### New York state Atlantic Chapter of the Sierra 8


### Club, and I'm currently serving as a volunteer 9


### chair of the chapter's energy committee. We 10



### represent some 40,000 members New York state. 11



### We applaud the efforts of the EPA to curb 12


### emissions of carbon dioxide. The greenhouse gas 13


### is a byproduct of our nation's energy production 14


### system. The EPA has recognized the release of 15


### greenhouse gases as a major cause of climate 16



### change, as has 9 7 percent of the world's climate 17



### scientists. 18


### We would like to make three points, 19


### however, concerning the proposed regulations. 20


### First, it is important that the EPA include the 21


### release of all greenhouse gas emissions, not just 22

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### carbon dioxide and its regula tions. Methane gas, 1


### released by high

- volume horizontal hydro

- fracking 2


### is 80 times more potent a greenhouse gas than 3


### carbon dioxide in the first 20 years of its 4



### release to the atmosphere. 5



### NASA scientists have found that methane 6



### may actually have as muc h as 105 times more 7



### potency than CO 2 

### in the same period. The EPA, 8


### however, has been using a much shorter 100

- year 9


### time frame and, thereby, calculates the effect of 10


### methane as only 20 to 25 times more potent than 11



### carbon dioxide. 12



### Due to the potency of meth ane, any 13



### leakage of the gas of more than two percent makes 14


### it a more dangerous greenhouse gas than carbon 15


### dioxide. Studies by the National Oceanic and 16


### Atmospheric Administration of methane leakage 17


### from high

- volume horizontal drilling for gas in 18



### the wester n United States shows annual leakage of 19


### between 2.3 percent and 17 percent from drilling 20


### and venting along pipelines, compressor stations, 21


### and storage facilities. Besides, the fracking 22

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### industry itself admits that some 5 to 7 percent 1


### of its high volume wel ls leak in the first year 2


### of their drilling, and that after 30 years, up to 3


### 35 percent of its wells leak methane. 4


### A recent study from the magazine Science
, 5


### finds that the EPA has seriously underestimated 6


### the release of methane from fracking. So to 7



### define methane gas obtained from high

- volume, 8


### high

- pressure hydro

- fracked wells as clean energy 9



### is erroneous. 10



### We, therefore, call upon the EPA to 11



### properly calculate the greenhouse effect of 12


### methane gas over a reasonable timeline, as well 13



### as to measure the re lease of methane from the 14


### high

- volume horizontal drilling technology. This 15


### will permit the establishment of CO 2 

### equivalents 16



### for released methane and to accurately calculate 17



### the greenhouse gas effects of fracked methane. 18



### Proper steps must then be taken to control 19


### methane release and, if necessary, actually to 20


### ban high

- volume hydro

- fracking. 21


### Secondly, the proposed regulations have 22

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### indicated that in certain instances or states 1


### nuclear power can be relied upon as a substitute 2



### for fossil fuel in order to rest rict the release 3



### of greenhouse gases. We oppose the use of 4



### nuclear reactors as a dangerous source of energy. 5


### In western New York, as in many other parts of 6


### the United States, citizens are subject to unsafe 7


### and improper storage of radioactive material and 8



### waste. The mining or uranium itself subjects 9



### residents of all communities to the effects of 10



### radiation. 11


### Third, we would emphasize the need to 12


### develop renewable energy based upon solar, wind, 13


### geothermal, and hydropower as a direction to take 14



### in order to m itigate the effects of climate 15



### change. The development of renewable energy, 16


### efficiency, and conversation are also tremendous 17


### potential sources of economic growth and a 18


### sustainable economy. 19



### Renewables are a successful alternative 20



### to fossil fuel, includ ing methane, and also to 21


### nuclear energy as a source to satisfy our 22

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### countries energy needs. The industrial 1



### powerhouse of Germany currently produces some 27 2


### percent of its electricity from renewables, 3


### mainly wind and solar power and has some 370,000 4


### jobs in the renewable sector, which would be the 5


### equivalent of 1.5 million jobs in the United 6



### States. 7


### Electricity on the German futures market 8


### is priced at only 3.2 cents per kilowatt hour in 9


### 2017, showing the economic efficiency of 10


### renewable energy despite con flicting reports from 11



### fossil fuel sources. 12



### A November 2013 study by PJM, the 13


### independent system operator for the electric 14


### transmission in all or part of 13 starts, 15


### including Pennsylvania, Ohio, New Jersey, found 16


### that if 30 percent of its energy production as 17


### supplied by wind power, its annual production 18


### cost for energy would be reduced by $9 billion, 19


### and its wholesale cost for electricity to 20


### consumers would be reduced by 21 billion. Carbon 21


### emissions would be reduced by 29 percent. 22

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### Thank you for your time

. 1



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both, 2


### and I'd like to thank all 38 speakers who 3


### participated in this morning's session. I'd like 4



### to also thank those of you who have sat very 5


### patiently through all of the speakers this 6


### morning. We really appreciate everybody being 7


### here today, and hopefully some of you will come 8



### back. 9


### We will be adjourned for lunch. We will 10


### start up again at 1 o'clock. So noon on the dot. 11


### We shall be adjourned and start up again at 1:00. 12



### Thank you. 13



### (Whereupon, a recess was taken from 12:00 14



### p.m. to 1:06 p.m.) 15



### MR. KOERBER: Well, good afternoon. 16


### Thank you all for being here. My name is Mike 17


### Koerber. I'm with EPA's Headquarters Air Office 18


### in North Carolina, and I'll be chairing the 19



### session this afternoon. 20


### Joining me on the pane l this afternoon, 21


### we have Donna Mastro with our EPA Regional Office 22

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### in Philadelphia and Meg Victor with one of our 1


### EPA Air Offices in Washington, D.C. 2



### We're here today to listen to your 3



### comments on two proposed EPA rules to reduce 4


### carbon pollution from po wer plants. EPA proposed 5



### announced both of these rules on June 2nd. 6



### Power plants are the largest source of 7


### carbon pollution in the United States, accounting 8



### for roughly one

- third of all domestic greenhouse 9


### gas emissions. 10


### The first rule is EPA's proposed Clean 11


### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 12


### proposal consists of two main parts, state 13


### specific goals to lower carbon pollution from 14


### power plants and guidelines to help states 15


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 16


### The second rule is EPA's prop osed rule to 17



### address Carbon Dioxide Emissions from Modified 18



### and Reconstructed Power Plants. This rule would 19


### set emission limits for these two groups of 20



### sources. 21


### If you would like more detail on either 22

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### of these proposed rules, we have fact sheets 1



### availa ble at the table in the back of the room. 2


### Today's hearing is one of four public 3


### hearings across the country this week on the two 4



### proposed rules. There has been tremendous 5


### interest in each of the hearings, and I'd like to 6


### thank you again for being he re today to share 7



### your comments. 8


### Before we get started, I'd like to go 9


### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 10



### for today's hearing. First, please be sure that 11


### you have checked in at the registration desk 12


### downstairs, even if you're not planning to speak 13


### today, and if you signed up to speak in advance 14



### but have not checked in at the registration desk 15



### downstairs , please do so. 16


### Second, if you're a speaker and were 17


### given a room letter when you checked in, A or B, 18



### this, of course, is Room B. So if y ou're a Room 19


### B speaker, you're in the right place. You're , of 20



### course, welcome to listen in either room, but if 21


### you're assigned to speak in Room B, please be 22

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### here at your designated time. 1


### Third, please put your phones on vibrate 2



### so as to not bother th e speakers, and also don't 3


### hang around i n the hall outside . There are a 4



### number of other offices on this floor, and we 5



### want to be respectful of their operations. 6



### H ere's how today's hearing will work. I 7


### will call speakers up in pairs. When your name 8



### i s called, please come to the table at the front 9



### of the room. When I call on you to speak, please 10



### state and spell your name for our court reporter. 11



### Y our comments will be transcribed and will be 12



### included in the rule

- making record for these 13



### proposed rules. 14


### Each speaker will have five minutes. We 15


### have a light to help you know how much time you 16



### have left to speak. Here's the light. We'll 17


### make sure we turn it so you can see it. Our 18


### first speaker, we had it backwards. It went off, 19



### and he couldn't tell, b ut we could tell. 20


### When the light turns from green to 21


### yellow, that means you have one minute remaining. 22

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### When it turns red, that's the signal to wrap up 1


### your testimony. The light will flash and beep

-- 2



### you'll hear the beep

-- when you have spoken for 3



### five minutes and it's time to stop. 4


### When you're finished speaking, please 5


### remain at the table until the person next to you 6


### has completed his or her testimony. I will then 7


### call up the next pair of speakers and so on. 8



### We are here to listen to you ; however, 9



### th e panel members may ask you clarify comments 10


### based on your testimony today. And if you 11


### brought a written copy of your testimony, please 12


### give it to the staff at the registration desk 13


### downstairs, or you can give to us here. And if 14



### you have an extra for th e court reporter, that 15


### would certainly be appreciated. 16



### Because of the large number of people who 17


### signed up to speak, and to be fair to everyone, 18



### we must enforce the five

- minute limit. If you 19


### have additional comments you'd like to make, then 20



### please subm it them in writing. Let me assure you 21



### that EPA gives just as much consideration to 22

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### comments we receive in writing as we do comments 1


### we receive at public hearings like this. 2


### There's still plenty of time to send 3



### written comments, and there are comment cards 4


### available at the registration desk; and I have 5



### some up here too if people would like to use 6



### them. Comments must be received by October 16th. 7


### We will put any written comments submitted today 8


### in the official record for the proposed rules. 9



### Instructions for submitting written 10


### comments in other ways are available at the table 11



### in the back of the room and also at the 12


### registration desk. 13


### We're scheduled to go until 8:00 o'clock 14


### tonight . We'll take a dinner break and other 15



### short breaks this afternoon as neces sary

. 16


### If you have any questions during the day, 17



### please see the staff at the registration desk 18



### downstairs a nd someone will help you. 19


### Finally and most importantly, please be 20



### respectful of everyone who speaks today. We have 21


### people here with a wide variety of views, and we 22

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### want to hear from all of you. So to be fair to 1


### everyone, we ask that you listen quietly. Even 2


### applause can slow things down. As I said, we 3


### want to hear from everyone who has signed up to 4



### speak today

. 5


### Thank you, again, for taking the time to 6



### share your comments. Now let's get started. 7



### I' ll call the first two speakers for this 8


### afternoon, Briget Shields and David Ingrund. 9


### Give us just a second to make sure we got 10


### the timer going. 11



### MS. SHIELDS: Okay. 12



### MR. KOERBER: Excellent. Thank you. 13



### Ms. Shields? 14


### MS. SHIELDS: My name is Bridgette 15



### Shields, B

- r

- i

- g

- e

- t, S

- h

- i

- e

- l

- d

- s. I reside in 16


### Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and I thank you for 17


### being here and for listening to our testimony. 18



### And I have read and seen what the EPA 19


### plan is, and I woul d like to talk a little bit 20


### about what it doesn't do. It explicitly

-- it 21


### deals only with the carbon emissions from 22

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### electric

- generated plants. Well, these emissions 1


### are significant. They account for less than half 2



### of the US greenhouse gases. 3



### In 2030, e mission targets are too modest 4


### and too far into the future. A more aggressive 5


### schedule is both needed and technically feasible. 6


### We need stronger and more aggressive regulations, 7



### and we need them now. 8


### It addresses domestic consumption of 9



### carbon fuels, bu t in return it concedes complete 10


### freedom for extraction for natural gas, such as 11


### what is happening in the shale fields of 12


### Pennsylvania. I rewards corporate investments 13


### for extracting carbon fuels here and exporting 14


### and burning them elsewhere. It accelera tes 15


### conversion from coal to natural gas by 16


### quantifying only the smoke stack emissions at 17


### generating plants and by disregarding the release 18


### of methane in the natural gas lifecycle. 19


### By directing investment to extraction and 20


### export industries, it feeds an ev en more powerful 21


### and economic political opposition to future 22

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### climate measures. 1



### The environmental establishment has 2


### thrown its weight behind the p resident, as it 3


### must, but who then will press for policies as 4


### this crisis truly requires ? When you talk about 5


### turning it over to the states, you can just look 6


### at Pennsylvania where we have departments put in 7



### place to protect the tax

- paying citizens, such as 8


### the DEP, but instead are promoting the gas 9


### industry, turning a blind eye to the many 10



### violations this indust ry is guilty of. 11



### Look at the recent news where the Auditor 12


### General has found contaminations of people's 13


### water and air, and it has been ignored by the 14



### DEP; and the citizens are left to fend for 15



### themselves. 16


### The president's idea that natural gas is 17



### the answ er is in so many ways and on so many 18



### levels wrong. Number one, the gas interest rate 19


### is still exempt from the Clean Air Act. How does 20


### the state regulate an industry that controls the 21


### world's economy, our politicians, and our media 22

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### with large donations to the politicians and 1


### limitless advertising? 2


### We're being poisoned by the industry the 3


### president is promoting is the answer to our 4


### energy needs. There is plenty of science now to 5



### show that this carbon

- based fuel is no better 6


### than, and in many cases, worse than the coal 7


### industry. This is the reason France has banned 8


### the practice of fracking. Germany has 9



### reinstituted their moratorium, and communities 10


### across the nation continue to fight or a ban. 11


### We need more protections in place now to 12


### protect us from this toxic industry. In 13


### southwestern PA, there is plenty of proof that 14


### the shale fields are a threat not only to climate 15



### change but to the tax

- paying citizens of this 16


### commonwealth, threats to our climate system. A 17


### range of studies have shown high level of me thane 18


### leaks from gas drilling and fracking operations, 19


### undermining the notion that natural gas is a 20



### climate solution or a transmission fuel. 21


### Major studies have concluded that early 22

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### work by the EPA greatly underestimated the 1


### impacts of methane and natural gas drilling on 2


### the climate. Drilling and fracking expanded the 3



### use of natural gas, threatened not only to 4


### exacerbate climate change but also to stifle 5


### investments and expansion of renewable and 6


### sustainable energy. 7



### I would suggest that you all get your 8



### h ands on a copy of the New York Physician's 9


### Compendium on Health Impacts from the natural gas 10


### industry. I can go

-- there are like 15 pages 11


### just on air pollution alone in Texas, Utah, 12


### Colorado, Pennsylvania, everywhere that fracking 13


### is taking place. There is peer

- reviewed studies 14


### now that prove that it is extremely harmful. 15


### If you look at this photo, this was just 16


### in Pennsylvania in July of last year where this 17


### burned for weeks while the industry told us it 18


### was just a hiccup in their manufacturing process 19


### at their cryogenic plant. Nobody was told for 20


### children not to go outside. 21


### We have put out a book, which I have a 22

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### copy for you, of firsthand testimonies where 1


### donations we, as citizens, have provide air 2


### scrubbers to families living in southwestern PA 3



### who cannot breathe the air in their own home. 4


### This is the reason why I ask you to, please, do 5



### not use natural gas as the answer to our energy 6



### needs, and we need to take a better look at this 7


### situation. Thank you. 8



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. I'd be happy to 9



### a ccept any materials you like to leave with us 10



### today. 11



### Mr. Ingrund? 12


### MR. INGRUND: Yes. My name is David 13



### Ingrund. That's D

- a

- v

- i

- d, I

- n

- g

- r

- u

- n

- d. And 14


### I'm here to voice my support for the proposed EPA 15



### carbon limits. 16


### I'm someone who enjoys all things 17



### out doors. I hunt and fish, hunt, bike, bird 18


### watch. All these things that I enjoy are at risk 19


### unless we adopt new limits on carbon emissions. 20


### There have been a lot of things said 21


### about climate change in the past 20 years, and a 22

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### lot of time and money has bee n spent in trying to 1


### convince the public that there is no crisis. 2



### There are only C hicken L ittle environmentalists 3


### crying the sky is falling. 4



### I did a little research into those in the 5


### denying camp and found out something very 6


### interesting. The men and tac tics involved in 7


### climate change denial were the same men and 8


### tactics use in defending the tobacco industry, 9


### denying acid rain, and denying CFC ozone 10


### depletion, William Nierenberg, Frederick Seitz, 11


### and Fred Singer have been in the (inaudible) when 12



### it comes to denial, creating doubts where none 13


### should exist and cynically repeating things are 14


### demonstrably false. Apparently in their world 15


### view, any regulation of any industry is 16


### unnecessary and smacks of socialism. 17


### In my world view, regulations are 18



### necessar y for one very good reason, regulations 19



### that are enforced work and work well, and 20


### industry has repeatedly shown that it prefers to 21


### continue polluting until forced to stop. Isaiah 22

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### Berlin said it well, "Freedom for wolves has 1



### often meant death to the sheep. " 2


### It would seem that these regulations 3


### would be anything but controversial. The 4


### opponents of climate change have done their work 5



### well. Our national leads the world in climate 6


### change ignorance, and they have succeeded in 7


### politicizing the debate to a poin t where I can 8


### reliably tell which side of the aisle a 9


### politician is from by his belief or disbelief in 10


### climate change. We need to get past this 11


### partisan nonsense and do something now, not 12



### later, and fear that we as a nation have allowed 13



### best of interest t o continue down an 14


### unsustainable path for far too long as a benefit 15


### from a debate on climate change they manufactured 16



### and nurtured. 17


### The economic argument is one that is 18



### t ried every time an environmental regulation is 19


### proposed. In most cases the economic impact has 20



### been neg ligible or nonexistent . Tailpipe 21


### emissions, banning CFCs, these were going to 22

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### cripple the economy. They didn't, and these 1


### regulations won't either. 2


### We can't ignore the cost we already are 3


### paying for climate change. Increased food c ost 4



### caused by more severe weather and the cost 5



### associated with weather

- related disaster relief. 6


### To complain about potential costs from proposed 7


### regulations while ignoring already occurring 8


### costs is disingenuous. 9


### No one is happy about someone losing 10



### their job, but to oversimplify these regulations 11


### as a war on coal is wrong. Instead of being 12


### proactive in developing new technology to make 13


### coal truly clean, the industry has chosen to do 14


### very little in this regard, preferring public 15


### relations campaigns to res earch and development. 16


### If the product you provide is polluting the 17


### planet, isn't it common sense to think that the 18


### regulation of the pollutant is in the best 19



### interest of the citizen range. 20


### The right of a corporation to make a 21


### profit doesn't supersede the right of the 22

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### apocalypse to have a healthy environment. Many 1


### believe that we can have both a healthy economy 2


### and a healthy environment. They're not mutually 3


### exclusive. American ingenuity is unparalleled. 4


### We can solve the problem of carbon pollution. We 5


### can stop global climate change, but we need to 6


### act now; and these common sense regulations are a 7


### step in the right direction. 8


### Thank you for listening to me. 9


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thanks to 10


### both of you for being here today. 11



### Next I'd like to call Matt Walker and 12



### Sherri Smith. 13


### MS. SMITH: I'm going to let him go 14



### first. 15



### MR. KOERBER: That would be fine. 16



### MS. SMITH: Thank you. 17



### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Walker? 18


### MR. WALKER: My name is Matt Walker, M

- a

19



### t

- t, W

- a

- l

- k

- e

- r, and I'm the Community Outreach 20



### Director with Clean Air Council. 21


### Clean Air Council is a nonprofit 22

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### environmental health organization, headquartered 1


### in Philadelphia. The council has over 8,000 2


### members throughout Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and 3



### Delaware, and for more than 40 years the coun cil 4



### has fought to improve air quality across the 5


### region and protect everyone's right to breath e 6



### clean air. 7


### Clean Air Council supports the 8


### Environmental Protection Agency's historic 9


### pollution reduction standards that limit the 10


### amount of carbon existing pow er plants can dump 11



### into the air. 12


### Climate change is here now, and it is 13


### having devastating impacts in our communities. 14


### Warmer temperatures resulting from climate change 15


### are causing an increased number of bad ozone 16


### days. Pennsylvania counties had a combin ed 485 17


### dangerous ozone days in 2013. Ground level ozone 18


### is linked with many respiratory diseases, cancer, 19



### stroke, and premature death. 20



### The Clean Power Plan has a great 21


### potential to cut the pollution that drives 22

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### climate change. In order to achieve this 1



### p otential though, the EPA should make the 2


### percentage reductions for states much more 3



### ambitious in order to accelerate the switch from 4


### using almost all fossil fuels for energy to using 5


### primarily renewable energy and energy efficiency, 6


### the lowest emitting ene rgy sources. 7


### Pennsylvania has already made major cuts 8


### in carbon emissions and would likely reach its 32 9


### percent target reduction goal under a business

10



### as

- usual scenario, relying on upgrades at coal 11


### plants and conversion to natural gas

- fired power 12



### plants. As a result, Pennsylvania Department of 13



### Environmental Protection officials aren't 14


### pursuing renewable energy or energy efficiency; 15


### that would truly be a missed opportunity. 16



### In order to set stronger goals, the 17


### council strongly urges EPA to greatly increase 18


### the assumption for possible increases in 19


### renewable energy development used in setting 20


### state reduction targets. The formula used to set 21


### state goals to the plan currently only includes a 22

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### conservative average of regional renewable energy 1


### policies. The coun cil believes the EPA should 2


### use the assumption of at least 30 percent 3


### renewable energy deployment in line with more 4


### progressive renewable portfolio standards such as 5


### New York, which set that goal for 2015, 15 years 6



### before the end date for the Clean Power P lan. 7


### Similarly, energy efficiency is the 8


### cheapest and fastest way to cut carbon emissions 9


### and should also be prioritized much more on EPA's 10


### plan. States have the policies, technology, and 11


### workforce available to achieve more energy 12


### efficiency gains right now. Accordingly, EPA 13


### should increase energy efficiency targets in 14


### their goal

- setting formula to much more than the 15



### 1.5 percent annually after 2017. 16


### If the ultimate goal of the EPA's new 17



### standards is to curb the effects of climate 18


### change, EPA must revise d the proposed rule to 19



### ensure that the standards do not merely phase out 20


### one fossil fuel, coal, just to replace it with 21


### another fossil fuel, natural gas for power 22

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### generation. The market is already pursuing 1


### pushing the switch from coal to gas, but this 2



### rul e may assist in accelerating that trend if it 3


### isn't carefully designed. 4



### The EPA must account for increases in the 5


### amount of methane emissions from gas

- fired power 6


### plants which result from coal

- fired power plants 7


### converting the gas or from new gas

- powered 8



### plants. 9



### EPA's estimates for methane contribution 10


### to climate change still lag far behind scientific 11



### consens us, which deemphasizes the impact that the 12


### natural gas sector will have on climate change. 13


### A recent study published in the (inaudible) of 14



### the Nat ional Academy of Sciences found that 15


### emissions rates of methane from active gas fields 16


### were 1,000 times higher than EPA estimates. 17


### The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate 18


### Change recently reported that methane is 86 times 19


### more potent at warming our planet t han carbon 20



### over a 20

- year time period, while research by a 21



### NASA scientist shows that methane is 105 times 22

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### more potent when including aerosol effects. 1


### EPA's global warming potential of 25 is 2


### inadequate for studying regulations. The 3


### lifecycle emissions fro m the gas industry may 4


### already be worse for the climate than coal. 5



### The EPA could create disincentives for 6


### the use of natural gas power generation in 7


### qualifying for the reduction under a state's 8


### plan. For instance, the agency could include a 9


### provision tha t certain achievements and 10


### percentage reductions would be canceled out if 11



### the state also increased CO 2 

### equivalent by a 12


### certain amount during the duration of the plan as 13


### a result of increased natural gas

- fired power 14



### plants. 15


### In addition, EPA must move quick ly on 16


### setting ambitious methane reduction targets or 17


### regulations for the oil and gas industry. 18



### In addition, EPA should ensure that the 19


### rule includes protections to ensure that states 20


### like Pennsylvania cannot exempt dirty energy 21



### sources under the plan's fr amework. These 22

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### exemptions would severely undermine the purpose 1


### of the EPA plan. DP is considering exempting 2



### coal waste plants from the program, even though 3


### they emit large amounts of carbon pollution. 4


### Lastly, EPA should include safeguards in 5



### the rule to protect environmental justice 6


### communities living near the power plants that may 7


### be subjected to disproportionate health impacts 8



### from power plants that don't undergo the 9



### upgrades. 10


### The council urges EPA to develop a 11


### stronger suite of options that truly rep resent 12


### the best system of emission reductions and that 13


### the reduction targets are ambitious enough to 14


### drive the strides in renewable energy and 15



### efficien c y we need to combat climate change. 16


### Thank you for prioritizing public health, 17


### and thank you for your ti me. 18


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 19



### Ms. Smith? 20


### MS. SMITH: Okay. You said someone is 21


### recording this, right? 22

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### MR. KOERBER: We have a court reporter

-- 1


### MS. SMITH: Okay. Thank you, sir. 2



### MR. KOERBER:

-- taking down every word. 3



### MS. SMITH: Okay. D o I start now? 4



### MR. KOERBER: Whenever you're ready, 5



### ma'am. 6


### MS. SMITH: Okay. First of all I'd like 7


### to say ditto to Matt because he has stated 8


### everything that I feel, and I so I don't feel a 9


### need to reiterate. But I'd like to tell you what 10



### it means to m e in terms of clean air, clean 11


### water, and just to have an environment that is 12



### healthy. 13



### I am a mother. I am a grandmother, and I 14


### brought these two items here to represent my two 15


### sons. One son is a Columbus police officer in 16


### Columbus, Ohio. He is a serge ant, and I'm very 17


### proud of him. 18


### And just real quick, my name is Sherri 19



### Smith, S

- h

- e

- r

- r

- I, Smith, S

- m

- i

- t

- h, Columbus, 20



### Ohio. 21


### My other son is Christian, Christian 22

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### Smith

- Hughes. He is my youngest son, and he's a 1


### pilot; and he also does collections. I'm s orry. 2


### But I'm proud of these boys, and I will 3


### do everything I can to make sure that this Earth 4


### is going to be around for them. That they're 5


### going to have water that is clean to drink; that 6


### they're going to have air that's clean to 7



### breath e . That they're going to have air that's 8



### clean to breath e ; t hat they are going to have 9



### what I had. I feel so blessed that I had what I 10


### had growing up, and for me to think that they 11



### wouldn't have

-- I thought it was a privilege

-- 12


### I thought it was something we were 13



### all owed to have, but now I'm realizing, this is 14


### really a luxury to have clean air, to have clean 15



### water, to have fish not be dead because of 16


### pollution from the fracking waters

-- the waters 17


### used in fracking. I thought, hey, we're going to 18



### be okay, but now I s ee I got to step up to the 19



### plate. 20


### Now that's Christopher and Christian. 21


### Christopher has two children, Jasmine and 22

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### Christopher Jacob, 7 and 3. I love them just as 1


### much as I love my sons, and every time I think 2


### about them not being able to go fish like I did 3


### or be able to go swim or not be able to breathe 4


### clean air, I feel as if I've got to do something. 5


### And the reason I'm really feeling 6


### intensely about this is because I don't see a lot 7



### of African

- Americans coming up in here doing 8


### anything, and I'm honest . I even wanted to go to 9



### Aretha Franklin concert at the fair in Columbus, 10


### Ohio, today and not come to this, but I knew 11


### there wasn't going to be a whole bunch of faces 12


### like me here; and my face is a face of a person 13



### who has asthma. 14



### I've had asthma since I was a child. 15



### Every day my mother came home from work, I was 16


### puffing on an inhaler because my mother was a 17



### smoker. She smoked when she got home. The 18


### babysitter didn't smoke. My mother smoked, and 19


### as soon as she got home, she was a chain smoker. 20



### And sh e started smoking, and I started not 21


### breathing. And so every day she took me to 22

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### Children's Hospital, and on the weekends I lived 1


### in Children's Hospital in Columbus, Ohio. 2


### And I think about this inhaler. Anybody 3


### else got an inhaler, anybody? Well, I' m going to 4


### tell you something. You never want one of these. 5


### If you don't believe that clean air is important, 6



### I assure you, use one of these. Have your heart 7


### race like it's going to beat out of your chest. 8


### Have it so that you think you're not going to get 9


### that last breath; that you think you are about to 10


### die because you can't breathe. 11


### This is so important. Air is so 12


### important. We think that we just have this 13


### unlimited supply of something. We don't. We 14


### don't. I don't, and it's real important to m e 15


### that I'm able to breathe. I ain't going to lie 16


### to you. Yes. I'm a little selfish. I want 17


### clean air, okay, but I'm also selfish for my 18


### children and my grandchildren, pray to God I have 19


### great grandchildren. But that won't happen if we 20



### don't have an Ea rth for them to live on. 21


### The rich are buying tickets for $600,000 22

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### to take a plane off of this Earth and get on some 1


### other planet. You have 600,000 to get off this 2



### planet? I don't. I'm one of the poor folks, 3



### okay, but I care. I care about you. I ca re 4


### about the coal miners. I want them to have jobs. 5


### I just want it to go in another direction. 6


### Let's do something. Let's do something 7



### like solar, wind, renewables. We don't have to 8


### do coal. We can do something different. 9


### Jasmine, CJ, Christopher, and Christian are 10


### counting on you like they're counting on me. 11



### God bless you. Thank you. 12



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you so much, both of 13


### you for being here today. 14


### Take your time. 15



### MS. SMITH: Thank you. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 17



### MS. SMITH: Have a blessed d ay. 18



### MR. KOERBER: You too. 19


### Next I'd like to call Jen Quinn and Ann e 20



### C a ruso. 21


### Ms. Quinn? 22

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### MS. QUINN: Good afternoon. My name is 1


### Jennifer Quinn, J

- e

- n

- n

- i

- f

- e

- r, Q

- u

- i

- n

- n, and 2


### I'm a resident of Tamaqua, Pennsylvania. 3


### I spend as much time as I can out doors. 4


### As a forester, I spent most of my working life 5


### outside and my free time hiking and mountain 6


### biking all over the country and in my home state 7


### of Pennsylvania. 8


### I believe we have an obligation to 9


### protect our outdoor and wildlife heritage from 10



### climate change by addressing its causes, 11


### including carbon pollution from power plants. 12



### Therefore, I fully support the EPA's proposed 13


### standard. It should be implemented promptly and 14


### without being weakened in any way. Failing to do 15


### so will mean increasingly disa strous impacts on 16


### our wildlife, including habitat loss, out of 17


### control pests such as ticks and bark beetles, and 18


### species extinctions. 19



### It's no longer acceptable for us to waste 20


### time debating the validity of climate science. 21


### The science is clear, whether y ou want to believe 22

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### it or not. Carbon pollution causes climate 1


### change resulting in more frequent and extreme 2


### weather events, drought, wildfire, and sea level 3



### rise that devastate our communities, threaten 4


### public health, destroy and degrade wildlife 5



### habitat, and irreversibly harm our outdoor 6


### recreational activities. Whether you're hunting, 7


### fishing, hiking, or wildlife watching, climate 8


### change is a threat. 9


### Here in Pennsylvania, many species are on 10


### the front lines of the climate change battle. 11



### The brook trou t, an economically and culturally 12


### important species, requires clean cold waters to 13


### thrive, but their populations will decline with a 14


### warming climate. 15


### The black duck, whose populations are 16


### already low will lose important nesting sites due 17



### to sea level rise , and sea grass, due to sea 18


### level rise, will be devastating for species that 19


### rely on aquatic vegetation for food, including 20


### the American widgeon, northern pintail, 21



### canvasback, and the black duck. 22

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### Many endangered species recovered in the 1



### 20th century thro ugh programs paid for by 2


### sportsmen through excise taxes and stamp fees. 3


### The climate change is putting these success 4


### stories and America's outdoor legacy at risk. 5


### For those who don't hunt or fish, you 6


### might not care about the fate of trout or ducks. 7



### Howe ver, climate change does not discriminate 8


### based on species. Humans are threatened by 9


### drought, violent and deadly weather events, and 10



### disease

- carrying insects such as ticks and 11


### mosquitos that are thriving in a warming world. 12


### Mosquito

- borne diseases like D engue Fever and 13


### Chikungunya found in the tropical regions of 14


### Africa and Southeast Asia have found their way to 15


### the US and will continue to spread to states that 16


### never thought they'd have to deal with such 17



### outbreaks. 18


### If we want our children and grandchildr en 19


### to have the same opportunities to enjoy the 20



### outdoors that we've had and to not deal with the 21



### consequences of an ever

- warming world, we owe it 22

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### to them to act now to cut climate

- altering carbon 1


### pollution. 2


### This rule to limit carbon pollution has 3



### been call ed by some a war on coal and an attack 4



### on coal miners and their families, words and 5


### phrases most likely developed by a large well

6


### paid marketing firm meant to scare and anger. 7


### Having just heard some of my testimony, 8


### some of those in attendance might ea sily brand me 9



### as one of those environmentalists, but I'm also 10


### from a long line of coal miners. My great 11



### grandfather and grandfather were both 12


### Pennsylvania coal miners. My father followed in 13


### their footsteps and mined coal for decades in the 14


### anthracite reg ion northeastern Pennsylvania doing 15


### underground and surface mining. I can assure you 16


### I am neither frightened nor angered by EPA's 17


### carbon pollution limits, and I would urge others 18



### not to be either. 19


### Unfortunately, industries have a history 20


### of overreacting to regulations. During the mid

21


### 70s, the EPA began requiring the use of catalytic 22

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### converters on new automobiles to dramatically 1


### reduce air pollution. The big automakers claimed 2


### these new regs would cause the auto industry to 3



### collapse and w ould devastate the economy, 4


### dramatic claims that were entirely false. 5


### If anything, history has shown us that 6


### regulations have spurred innovation, increasing 7


### fuel efficiency and reducing pollution from our 8



### vehicles . The clean carbon plan can also drive 9



### in novation by spurring investment in energy 10


### efficiency and clean energy technologies. 11


### Despite our differences, we are all in 12


### this together, whether we like it or not, and we 13


### owe it to one another to do the right thing. 14


### Please implement the proposed standa rd 15


### without any changes as soon as possible. Thank 16



### you. 17



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 18



### Ms. Caruso. 19


### MS. CARUSO: My name is Anne Caruso, A

- n

20



### n

- e, C

- a

- r

- u

- s

- o. I live in Cleveland Heights, 21


### Ohio. I'm the fracking representative from the 22

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### northeast Ohio Group of the Sierra Club, which is 1


### a volunteer position. I'm submitting comments 2


### that represent my own view and not necessarily 3



### the views of the Northeast Ohio Sierra Club. 4


### My comments pertain to promoting natural 5


### gas as a clean alternative to coal in the Clean 6


### Power Plan. By not including limits on methane 7


### emissions as well, I believe the EPA is diluting 8


### its efforts to reduce global warming. 9


### Methane, like carbon, is a greenhouse 10


### gas. It is a more potent greenhouse gas than 11



### carbon, 100 percent more potent bec ause of the 12


### way it works in the atmosphere over a 20

- year 13


### period. 14


### Fracking for natural gas results in 15


### releasing unburned methane at all stages of the 16


### fracking process. Experts tell us that if total 17


### methane emissions throughout the lifecycle of 18



### fracked na tural gas reached three percent and has 19


### a fuel that is equal to burning coal in terms of 20


### global warming. The most conservative average 21


### for methane released during the lifecycle of 22

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### fracking is 5 percent to 7 percent, well above 1



### the 3 percent. 2



### The EPA's own study entitled Improvements 3



### Needed and EPA Efforts to Address Methane 4



### Emissions from Natural Gas Distribution 5


### Pipelines
, issued on July 25, 2014, cautions that 6


### methane emissions from pipelines have been 7


### grossly underestimated. 8


### I know the president pl ans to address 9


### this problem through executive order and through 10


### voluntary efforts by the natural gas industry, 11


### but will this be enough? 12


### A study entitled Methane Leakage from 13


### North American Natural Gas Systems , published in 14


### the February 14, 2014, issue of the Journal of 15



### Science synthesizes diverse findings for more 16


### than 200 studies ranging in scope from local gas 17


### processing plants to total emissions from the US 18



### and Canada. "People who go out and actually 19


### measure methane pretty consistently find more 20



### emissi ons than we expect," says the lead author, 21



### Adam Brandt. 22

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### "Atmospheric tests covering the entire 1


### country indicating emissions around 50 percent 2



### more than the EPA estimates," said Brandt, and 3



### that is a moderate estimate. The EPA estimates 4



### are based on volu ntary reporting of methane 5


### emissions from the natural gas industry. 6


### Promoting fracking in the Clean Power 7


### Plan is unfortunate, not just because it 8


### contributes to climate change but because it 9


### threatens Americans' air and water quality. 10


### Studies by Theo Co lburn in 2010 and later by the 11



### Colorado School of Public Health found that 12


### fracking releases volatile organic compounds into 13



### the air. These VOCs combine with diesel 14


### emissions and form ground level ozone due to the 15


### high truck traffic which accompanies frac king. 16



### We have much work to do to study water 17


### contamination also from fracking, but the EPA's 18


### initial findings of water contamination in 19


### Pavilion, Wyoming, found that the contamination 20


### there was likely due to fracking. Sadly, the EPA 21



### turned the study over to the state to complete, 22

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### the very state which had initially refused to 1


### investigate the complaint of ruined water. 2


### Similarly, in Dimock, Pennsylvania and in 3


### Parker County, Texas, the EPA began studies of 4



### contaminated water, but turned those studies over 5


### to the states to complete. In these instances, 6


### the states had also initially dismissed the water 7


### problems as insignificant. 8


### Luckily though, in Parker County, Texas, 9


### the University of Texas at Arlington agreed to 10


### take on the investigation and did find that the 11


### water was contaminated with an unacceptable level 12


### of methane from fracking nearby. The level found 13


### was 83 with 10 being the acceptable level for 14



### methane and water. 15


### Scientists have also linked the disposal 16


### of toxic fracking waste in injection wel ls to 17


### earthquakes in many states, including my own 18



### state of Ohio. 19


### EPA administrator, Gina McCarthy said in 20


### her July 23, 2014, testimony last week to the 21



### Senate Environment Public Works Committee that, 22

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### "Climate change is the biggest challenge of our 1



### time." I agree with her, but is an all

- of

- the

2


### above approach the best approach to the biggest 3


### challenge of our time? 4


### If a patient is in need of a heart 5


### transplant, do we send a medical student in to 6


### operate? No. We call in a specialist. In the 7



### same way, we need to identify what will best 8


### address the problem of climate change. It seems 9


### to me that energy conservation and beginning to 10


### replace fossil fuel with renewable energy sources 11



### addresses the problem best. 12



### We have 15 years before 2030. Let's use 13



### those p recious years to address the problem head 14


### on and not dilute our efforts by trading one 15



### fossil fuel for another. 16


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Appreciate you 17


### being here today. 18



### MS. CARUSO: Thank you. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 20



### Next I'd like to call Robert Alt enburg 21



### and Rachel Mark. 22

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### MR. ALTENBURG: Thank you. My name is 1



### Robert Altenburg, A

- l

- t

- e

- n

- b

- u

- r

- g. 2


### I'm a senior energy analyst with the 3


### PennFuture Energy Center. We're a nonprofit, 4


### membership

- based, environmental advocacy 5


### organization focusing on land, water, and energy 6


### issues that impact Pennsylvania. 7


### I appreciate the opportunity to be here 8


### today to provide testimony and support of EPA's 9



### Clean Power Plan rule. 10


### PennFuture will provide detailed 11



### technical comments on a number of aspects of the 12



### proposal, but I'd like to focus my testimony 13


### today on a few broad points. 14


### First, the EPA's proposal is a balanced 15


### approach. Giving individual states the 16


### flexibility to craft the best solution for their 17


### particular situation is often better than a one

18



### size

- fits

- all federal directive. But with 19


### flexibility comes the need for fair standards and 20


### careful oversight. 21


### Acceptance of relatively weaker standards 22

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### in different states effectively subsidizes 1


### dirtier power plants and risks creating a race to 2



### the bottom. To a void this, the EPA has proposed 3


### fair and achievable targets with individual goals 4


### that are tailored to each state's particular 5


### situation and provide a level playing field. 6


### We also recognize that federal standards 7


### in oversight make it easier for environmental 8


### professionals in the states to do their jobs and 9


### implement the most effective programs. It's an 10


### unfortunate reality that the weaker the 11


### oversight, the more politicized the decision

12


### making is likely to be. Since no state wants to 13


### be subject to a federal i mplementation plan, the 14


### fact that EPA is committed to implementing such a 15


### plan if states are unable to is one of the best 16


### ways to ensure meaningful state action. 17


### EPA's goals for Pennsylvania are 18


### achievable. Pennsylvania has the tools to 19


### achieve the propo sed goals and to grow its 20


### economy and without the need to retire additional 21


### power plants. Low energy prices have forced a 22

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### number of older coal plants to retire since the 1



### 2012 base year, and a number of others are 2


### scheduled to retire in the next few years. This 3


### is in part the result of our aging fleet. 4



### While coal

- fired power plants nationwide 5


### tend to last 48 years, most of our plants are in 6


### their 60s when they close. This is also the 7


### natural result of our competitive energy markets 8



### combined with low natu ral gas prices. 9


### First Energy President, James Lash, 10


### recognized this in testimony last year before a 11



### state Senate when he admitted that even without 12


### the EPA, his plants that were closing would still 13


### be losing money. 14



### Fortunately, newer and cleaner sources of 15


### power are already making up for the lost capacity 16


### and more is on the way. Because of this, we are 17


### on track to exceed EPA's expectations for re

18


### dispatch of coal generation to cleaner sources. 19


### Pennsylvania is also likely to exceed 20


### expectations related t o our nuclear resources. 21


### All five of our nuclear generating stations are 22

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### currently licensed until after the 20/30 1


### compliance period. We may also see additional 2


### nuclear capacity from uprates at existing 3


### facilities. Such uprates, like any additions to 4



### nuc lear capacity, will offset reductions needed 5



### from other sources. 6


### Our alternative energy portfolio 7


### standards are all also currently providing more 8



### renewable energy than EPA expected, and data 9


### suggests that EPA's goals could be met with 10



### modest additional ef fort. 11


### New solar and wind capacity will not only 12


### bring more clean domestic energy to the market, 13


### but recent modeling has shown that construction 14


### of these resources creates more jobs than 15


### building the equivalent fossil fuel capacity. 16


### Energy efficiency, how ever, may be the 17



### star of the show. Our Act 129 program sets 18


### specific targets for energy efficiency 19


### improvement across the state. All electric 20


### distribution companies ultimately have met their 21


### phase one goals and are now working on phase two. 22

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### That success is good news, but the best news is 1


### that an independent evaluator, using a total 2



### resource cost test, found that these programs 3


### return $3 in direct economic benefits to 4


### consumers for every $1 spent; and that doesn't 5



### include health and environmental benefits

. 6


### The evaluator also examined 579 energy 7


### efficiency measures and found that Pennsylvania 8


### could more than double the reductions EPA expects 9


### and do so and still save money. 10



### EPA also correctly takes a system

- wide 11



### approach. Pen nF uture supports the EPA's dec ision 12


### to look beyond the fence line of individual 13


### plants in identifying the best system of emission 14


### reductions. Because of the integrated nature of 15


### the electric grid, reductions in generation at a 16


### particular fossil fuel facility must be balance 17



### with eithe r i ncreased generation or with demand 18


### reduction elsewhere on the grid. 19


### Because of this, the carbon intensity of 20


### generation cannot be considered in isolation. 21


### Setting goals and ultimately determining 22

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### compliance should rightly consider the entire 1



### system

. 2


### This is also consistent with the plain 3


### language of the Clean Air Act, where Congress has 4


### intended to limit measures to technological or 5



### Bolton measures at plants. They have bee n 6


### specific, as in the case of racked or backed

. 7



### Here Congress mandated a system

- wide approach as 8



### opposed to a technology. 9



### As the D.C. Circuit Court said in Sierra 10



### Club v. Coastal back in 1981, "The EPA has the 11


### authority to weigh costs, energy, and 12


### environmental impacts in the broadest sense at 13


### the national and regional levels at overtime as 14


### opposed to simply at the plant level in the 15


### immediate present." Thank you. 16


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 17



### MS. MARK: My name is Rachel Mark, R

- a

- c

18



### h

- e

- l, M

- a

- r

- k. I live in Hummelstown, 19


### Pennsylvania and I am here to support the 20



### proposed regulations on CO2 emissions. 21


### These regulations are an essential first 22

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### step to reduce pollution and carbon emissions in 1



### the United States. I am a member, a board member 2


### of Pennsylvania Unified Power and Light, a faith

3


### based organization that addresses cl imate change 4



### as a moral issue. 5



### Members of all faith traditions consider 6



### their moral and ethical values as essential and 7


### integral to their faith. The ethics of all 8



### traditions mandate that their faith members care 9



### for, or at the very least, do no harm to others, 10


### especially the poor, the aged, the children, and 11


### the most vulnerable, yet that is what we do when 12


### we pollute the air and water which are necessary 13



### for life. 14


### To argue in terms of economics alone does 15



### not include the critical ethical consideratio ns. 16


### Our obligation to those we love, to our global 17


### neighbors, and to the health and stability of our 18


### world truly matter. Carbon pollution is not an 19



### inconvenience to our life; it is life

20


### threatening. 21


### Greenhouse gas emissions are problematic. 22

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### There is no thing we can substitute for a stable 1



### climate, clean water, or breathable air. The 2


### impact that CO2 regulations will have on jobs can 3


### be addressed. Even now, there are more jobs in 4


### clean energy than in fossil fuels. The 5


### implementation of a carbon tax woul d additionally 6


### spur many more jobs in the energy sector and 7



### would boost the economy. 8


### Setting limits on greenhouse gas 9


### emissions is about moderation, about monitoring 10


### and limiting our use of fossil fuels. Decades 11


### ago, we did not know about the harms of carbon 12


### pollution; now we know. We can no longer act as 13


### if we did not know. Living lives of immoderation 14



### without limits is harmful and we know that 15



### excessive and wasteful use of fossil fuels is 16


### causing enormous harms to our health and to our 17



### environment. 18


### Our freedoms are precious, but they come 19


### at a price with a budget. At some point, we all 20


### learn that overspending our freedoms does not 21


### lead to health or wellbeing. We can drive where 22

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### we want, but driving too fast may cost our life. 1



### We can eat what we choose, but too much is 2



### destructive to our health. Our choices on what 3


### to buy are endless, and we value the many choices 4



### we have, but too many leads to bankruptcy. We 5



### understand the need for limitations and 6


### regulations on our freedoms. We respect them as 7


### a part of living responsibly. 8


### Our overuse of fossil fuels is causing 9


### harm to others and we need to significantly 10


### reconsider our budget. That is what the EPA is 11


### doing and I appreciate and support this urgent 12


### and timely action. Thank you for allowing m e the 13


### opportunity to offer my opinion. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you for 15


### being here today. Thanks to both of you. 16


### And my thanks to the audience for 17


### listening quietly and being respectful of our 18


### speakers. They appreciate it and I also 19


### appreciate i t, so thank you all very much. 20



### Next I’d like to call Deb Nardone and 21


### Lois Hornbostel. And I probably butchered both 22

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### names. My sincere apologies. Feel free to 1



### correct me. 2


### MS. NARDONE: My name is Deb Nardone, D

3



### e

- b, N

- a

- r

- d

- o

- n

- e. 4



### Good afternoon. M y name is Deb Nardone. 5


### I’m director of the Sierra Club’s Beyond Natural 6


### Gas campaign where I reside in central 7


### Pennsylvania and State College. 8


### I wanted to speak today on why the Sierra 9


### Club supports the EPA’s first ever carbon 10


### pollution standards for p ower plants, but also on 11


### why the rule has to be improved or amended at the 12


### state level to meaningfully combat climate change 13


### by committing to clean energy and not more fossil 14



### fuels. 15



### Scientists have warned that irreversible 16


### climate catastrophe cannot be avoided without 17


### dramatic reduction in greenhouse gas emissions, 18


### especially over the next couple of decades. We 19



### cannot afford to have baby steps or 20


### counterproductive measures, so instead of 21


### adopting a strategy that perpetuates fossil fuels 22

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### and more frackin g, the proposed rule should be 1


### improved so that it ensures states are pursuing 2


### renewable energy and energy efficiency as the 3


### first priority. 4



### EPA should not undersell what states can 5


### do with renewable energy or energy efficiency, 6



### nor should they approve c ompliance measures that 7



### would incentivize the construction or utilization 8


### of new fossil fuel generation. Renewable energy 9


### and energy efficiency will help the state reach 10


### its target more effectively, it’s economic and it 11


### provides good green jobs as well. 12


### This rule, however, will increase gas 13


### generation in the short term, potentially an 14


### increase by almost 180 percent by 2020, as was 15


### predicted in the EPA’s own regulatory impact 16


### analysis. No clean power plan should incentivize 17


### the expansion of fracked gas in the electricity 18



### sector. 19



### We feel that the EPA’s model 20


### significantly underrates the potential growth of 21


### renewable energy and energy efficiency. We’re 22

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### also skeptical about the analysis and the models 1



### that the EPA used which shows that net emissions 2



### will drop even though we will see significant 3


### increases in production of fracked gas. We 4


### should make all of that modeling and that 5


### analysis available to the public. 6


### We do have an opportunity, though, in 7


### this country to turn the page on antiquated 8


### technologies that make our children and families 9


### sick, tend to lean into technologies that spark 10


### innovation. We must hold polluters accountable 11


### for the pollution they cause, both at the burner 12


### tip and at the wellhead, and during 13


### transportation. 14



### So we have to pass a string

-- we have to 15



### pass a strong clean power plan, but at the same 16


### time, there is a whole number of things that the 17


### EPA must also be doing simultaneously. We have 18


### to close the exemptions that the oil and gas 19


### industry enjoys; basic protections from thi ngs 20


### like the Clean Air Act and the Safe Drinking 21



### Water Act. The EPA also has to step up and 22

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### directly regulate methane, both from oil and gas 1


### and coproducing wells, during gas production, 2


### during gas processing, and during transport on 3


### new and existing well s. 4


### Fracking presents real threats to the way 5


### of life and our societal wellbeing, from fueling 6


### climate change to polluting our air and water, to 7


### jeopardizing my child’s health, to destroying the 8


### places that my family likes to hunt and bike and 9



### hike and fis h and recreate in general. It’s time 10


### that we really move beyond all fossil fuels in 11



### favor of clean energy. 12



### This Clean Power Plan has the chance to 13


### make that happen with some needed improvements. 14


### So in closing, I do want to thank the EPA for 15


### stepping up at a critical time, for acknowledging 16



### that the climate crisis is real, and that it 17


### comes with significant costs. Now is the time to 18


### strengthen this role to minimize our reliance on 19


### fossil fuels, including dirty, dangerous fracked 20


### gas so our communities, o ur landscapes, our 21


### children and our planet should not be fracked 22

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### when clean energy and energy efficiency can fit 1


### the bill. Thank you. 2



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, Ms. Nardone. 3



### Ms. Hornbostel? 4


### MS. HORNBOSTEL: Yes, my name is Lois 5



### Hornbostel and I am please d to be here today. 6



### I support the US EPA’s proposed Clean 7


### Power Plan, and if I had my druthers, I’d 8


### increase it to 50 percent because I am 75
, and I 9


### worked as a clinical laboratory scientist for 10


### over four decades, mostly in hospitals and 11


### chemistry immu nology, and the rest of the 12


### departments and nuclear medicine. And I 13


### attribute my bronchitis to my exposure to harmful 14


### polluted air resulting from coal soot. I know

-- 15



### I'm sorry, am I close enough? 16



### MR. KOERBER: You’re fine, ma’am. 17



### MS. HORNBOSTEL: I kn ow that each year 18


### the harmful effects from burning coal contribute 19


### billions to the cost of providing healthcare to 20


### those exposed to toxic pollutants in our air. 21


### This harmful pollution and burning forests, 22

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### accepted as a reality by 97 percent of all world 1



### s cientists, it contributes greatly to global 2


### warming now accepted by 97 percent of all world 3



### scientists. 4


### The United States must be aggressive in 5


### reversing global warming because failure to do so 6


### will result in the extirpation of many species of 7



### both land and in our oceans. The major way we 8


### can address this crisis is by cutting carbon 9



### emissions. 10


### Methane from fracking is even more 11


### dangerous as a greenhouse gas. Global warming is 12


### the direct cause of rising sea levels; year

- round 13



### wildfires are the new norm al; droughts over much 14


### of the western US; and in other parts of the 15


### country, heavy rains

-- where I live, our street 16


### has experienced flooding for the first time in a 17


### recent heavy rainfall; loss of our glaciers 18


### around the world; and the loss of productive 19



### a griculture are effects of the global warming. 20


### These and other negative impacts are directly 21



### correlated to our continued reliance on coal to 22

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### fire our power plants. 1


### Dr. Lonnie Thompson from Ohio State 2


### University, and Dr. Richard Alley from Penn State 3



### have both pointed out the enormous costs

-- and 4



### I’ve heard them both lecture live

-- cleaning up 5


### after these unnatural disasters attributing to 6


### global warming if we do not move to speedily 7


### adopt alternative forms of energy production. 8


### And I’m not including nuc lear or fracking. The 9


### IPCC has said that the next 15 years will be 10


### critical for pursuing affordable climate change 11



### action. 12


### I find two arguments most compelling in 13


### support of the proposed US EPA rule. First, the 14


### United States must set a powerful example for 15


### other first world nations in developing 16


### alternative energy solutions. If we do not, how 17


### can we expect China and India to take these 18


### issues seriously? I saw all the segments of 19


### years of Living Dangerously, which included 20



### Arnold Schwarzenegger and Harr ison Ford, and in 21



### third

-- talking about carbon pollution. It’s a 22

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### good series. 1


### Second, the proposed rules give states 2


### flexibility in meeting reduction target of 30 3



### percent

-- I said 50 percent

-- while still 4


### allowing the US EPA to hold states’ feet to th e 5


### fire. This is important because my home state, 6


### at the behest of the largest utility company, 7


### First Energy, has recently rolled back its 8


### alternative energy standards adopted just a short 9


### time ago in 2008. 10


### Already two large producers of wind 11



### energy ha ve announced that they are suspending 12


### plans to further develop this resource in Ohio. 13


### Not only that, but the state legislature has just 14


### passed a new siting requirement for wind energy 15


### producers. Seventy percent of our existing wind 16



### turbines would not mee t the new siting 17


### requirements. If Ohio, which is one of the top 18


### five states in production of CO2, is left without 19


### standards or oversight, I fear that clean energy 20


### production is doomed. I really have a fear about 21



### this because I worked in healthcare. 22

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### Some opponents of the proposed rule will 1


### say that Ohio needs the jobs provided by the coal 2


### industry. To that argument, I say that states, 3


### including Ohio, should devote the funds necessary 4



### to retrain these workers

-- I just saw them; they 5



### can be retrained

-- f or green industry, as much 6


### as the state has already committed to retraining 7


### workers displaced by the disclosure

-- the 8


### closure of a large aluminum smelter in southeast 9



### Ohio. 10


### I fully support strengthening the 11



### proposed rules and am very concerned about an y 12



### efforts to weaken them. Thank you so much. 13



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 14



### Next I’d like to call Charlotte Owens and 15



### Thomas Radecki. 16



### MS. OWENS: I’m Charlotte Owens, C

- h

- a

- r

17



### l

- o

- t

— t

- e, O

- w

- e

- n

- s. 18


### Thank you for this opportunity to speak 19



### to you. I am Ch arlotte Owens. I’m from 20


### Lithopolis, Ohio
, just outside of Columbus, Ohio. 21


### I support the EPA’s regulations to put 22

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### limits on the carbon emissions of existing fossil 1



### fuel plants. 2


### Producing electricity from fossil fuels 3



### has many costs to our health, a s Lois talked 4


### about. Shortened life expectancy, reduced 5


### productivity, plus the cost to our environment, 6


### species’ habitats lost, whether those habitats 7



### are cleaned up or not. And then, of course, 8


### climate change. And all these costs we end up 9


### paying, but what misleads people is that they 10



### don’t come out of our electric bills ; and so 11



### people are often deluded about the actual cost of 12


### fossil fuel power plant and electricity. So when 13


### electric bills more accurately reflect the cost 14



### of fossil fuels, the economic benefits of 15


### renewable energies will become clear. 16


### Also, the flexibility allowed to states 17


### to meet their reduction goals is very important. 18


### States can use this flexibility to do some 19


### creativity to encourage efficiency and foster new 20


### clean energy industri es and clean energy jobs, 21


### while helping communities and families dependent 22

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### on coal find a new economic pathway. 1


### I used to live on the Ohio River right 2


### across from West Virginia where coal is very 3


### powerful and some people think there’s a war on 4



### coal, and a s we saw today, they’re saying our 5


### kids are important too, and they are. So we who 6


### seek to reduce global warming will fail if we 7


### fail to convince people dependent of fossil fuel 8


### jobs that they matter and that their creativity 9



### and efforts are a part of the solution. 10


### Protecting the planet is good for all 11


### living things. We need to make sure it’s good 12


### for all people. What we do know though is that 13


### climate change already and will certainly more

-- 14


### be more disastrous for all sorts of living 15


### things, but especi ally for the poorest people, 16


### whether it’s, you know, people of the Maltese 17



### need to evacuate their island

-- their 18


### disappearing islands or people flooding in 19


### Bangladesh or in other places who did not cause 20


### the global warming, or people having insufficient 21



### f ood or water, or people who already, as a result 22

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### of climate disasters, the poorest people are the 1


### ones who have the least ability to escape Katrina 2



### and rebuild. So if we

-- so thank you. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 4



### Mr. Radecki? 5



### MR. RADECKI: Tom Radecki, R

- a

- d

- e

- c

- k

- i. 6


### I’m a retired physician from Clarion, 7


### Pennsylvania. Thank you very much for this 8


### opportunity. 9



### The proposed EPA standards are nowhere 10


### near enough, but they are a step in the right 11


### direction. The world must be carbon neutral by 12



### 2050, if not sooner. We’ve already waited too 13


### long. The future looks very grim, but rapid 14


### action will help. 15


### The EPA grossly underestimates the cost 16


### of carbon pollution. The carbon bullets fired 17


### into the air by power plants this year won’t stop 18


### killing in 2030 , but on the average will keep 19


### killing for another 384 years. Their killing, 20



### even now, doesn’t stop at the US border. Per 21


### capita, our country spews far more deadly carbon 22

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### into the air than any other major country. The 1



### social cost of carbon is much, much higher than 2


### the US government admits. 3


### Projections from our National Center on 4


### Atmospheric Research are that by 2060, the 5


### Midwest will have near desert conditions. By 6


### 2090, desert will extend from Illinois to Oregon 7


### and southward except for Florida. P ennsylvania 8



### is more fortunate, but we won’t be able to feed 9


### the rest of our great nation. Droughts in Texas, 10


### Kansas and the Southwest are already semi

11


### permanent. California is having the worst 12


### drought in its history. The Midwest just had a 13



### record drough t. Australia, Mediterranean and the 14


### Middle East are having steadily increasing 15



### droughts. 16


### Spain, France, Italy, Turkey, Mexico and 17


### Venezuela are all projected to become deserts, 18


### although areas that get rain are often getting it 19


### in stronger and more des tructive thunderstorms, 20


### cyclones and hurricanes as seen recently in the 21


### UK, Pakistan, Thailand, the Philippines, New 22

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### York, Boulder, Nashville, Pensacola, and many 1



### other locations. Glaciers in western Antarctica 2



### are now certain to melt
, raising sea levels 13 3


### feet within 200 years. The recent discovery of a 4


### large section of the Greenland’s ice sheets rest 5



### on deep valleys below sea levels means that they, 6



### too, will melt much faster. 7


### The State of the Climate report found 8



### another small acceleration in the rat e of sea 9


### level rise in 2013. The IPCC report is already 10


### out of date, seriously underestimating the risks 11


### to life. Southern Florida is as good as gone. 12


### Many recently purchased homes will likely be 13


### chronically flooded and unsellable by the time 14



### their mort gages are paid off. New Orleans, 15


### Norfolk, New York, Boston, and many others will 16



### go underwater as well, some sooner, some later. 17


### But vigorous action now will reduce 18


### global warming gases to cut this destruction. 19


### Carbon dioxide pollution is the greatest threat 20


### to life on our planet. Some knowledgeable 21



### scientists estimate that billions of humans will 22

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### die from global warming. Starvation will be the 1



### number one killer. 2



### One conservative estimate is that one 3


### person will die this century for every 150 ton s 4


### of carbon dioxide which we emit. By that, the 5


### average American is killing one person every 10 6


### years. The typical fossil fuel power plant is 7


### killing 10 or more people every day. Most of 8


### these people won’t die until later this century, 9



### but the carbon bu llets that will kill them are 10


### being shot out of smoke stacks and tailpipes as 11



### we speak. 12


### During the Great Dying 250 million years 13


### ago, 96 percent of all species went extinct. 14


### Life at the latitude of the contiguous US was 15


### only microbial, no plants, no anim als due to 16


### intense global warming from levels of carbon 17


### dioxide caused by massive volcanic eruptions; 18


### plants and animals only did well at the poles. 19


### We are now entering the Earth’s sixth mass 20


### extinction with power plants and human sources as 21



### our volcanoes . One expert states that it now 22

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### appears , without serious action, we are moving 1


### into a period which will be most similar to the 2


### Great Dying. 3


### Carbon capture is an expensive delusion. 4


### EPA regulations on new power plants still allow 5



### massive carbon emissions . We can’t afford that. 6


### Coal, petroleum and natural gas must be left in 7


### the ground. Solar and wind have become very 8


### inexpensive. Their cost is trivial compared to 9



### the massive destruction that carbon dioxide will 10



### cause. 11


### Sadly, we Americans are helpin g to 12


### destroy our planet. Our emissions will kill 13


### hundreds of millions. Are we guilty of murder? 14


### I’m sure that it is a crime against humanity if 15


### we don’t stop. The proposed regulations are a 16


### step in the right direction. Thank you. 17



### Anybody want any han douts, I’m happy to 18



### share them. 19


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. If those 20


### are extra copies of your testimony, you can leave 21


### those with us or with the reporter, if you wish. 22

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### Again, my thanks to both of you and our 1



### other speakers, and really everybody who’s here 2


### today for helping us on this rule. We do 3


### appreciate you being here today. 4


### Next I’d like to call Tom Rodd and George 5


### Hoguet. I did a really bad job on that one. 6


### MR. HOGUET: That’s all right. 7



### MR. RODD: Should I go? 8


### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Rodd, if you ’re ready. 9


### MR. RODD: Good afternoon. My name is 10



### Tom Rodd, T

- o

- m, R

- o

- d

- d. I’m from Moatsville, 11


### West Virginia, M

- o

- a

- t

- s

- v

- i

- l

- l

- e. 12



### I’m here as the director of the Friends 13


### of Blackwater Allegheny Highlands Climate Change 14


### Impacts Initiative. Friends of Blackwater is a 15


### West Virginia

- based conservation group that works 16



### in the mid

- Atlantic Allegheny Highlands region of 17


### the Appalachian Mountains. 18


### The Allegheny Highlands region includes 19


### parts of Pennsylvania, Maryland, West Virginia 20


### and Virginia, and hund reds of thousands of people 21



### live and work in town and forests and fields of 22

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### the Highlands region. Each year, also tens of 1


### thousands of visitors enjoy our distinctive high 2


### mountain climate, our rushing rivers, our scenic 3


### trails, our ski slopes, our vacatio n resorts, and 4


### magnificent scenic landscapes like West 5


### Virginia’s Blackwater Falls in Canaan Valley 6



### State Park. 7


### The Allegheny Highlands’ economy and 8


### ecology have enriched many generations of 9



### residents and visitors, but unless the current 10



### pace of human

- c aused global warming and climate 11


### change is dramatically slowed, the future of the 12


### Highlands ecology and economy is on the chopping 13



### block. 14



### Today, human

- caused global warming and 15


### climate change are already having significant 16


### impacts in the Allegheny Highlan ds. Scientific 17


### research is confirming the observations of 18



### farmers and foresters and gardeners and anglers 19


### and hunters. Spring is coming early, frosts are 20


### coming later, severe weather events like 21


### devastating flooding are growing. Important 22

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### plant, tree, f ish and animal species are losing 1


### their habitat, threatening species like the brook 2


### trout, which a previous spe aker mentioned, which 3


### happens to be the West Virginia state fish, and 4


### it’s predicted to go extinct in the state under 5


### normal greenhouse gas emiss ion scenarios. The 6


### sugar maple, the West Virginia state tree, is 7


### similarly predicted to be extinct in the state as 8


### a result of global warming if it’s not checked. 9


### These climate change impacts in the 10


### Allegheny Highlands are no surprise, of course, 11



### because the impacts of human

- caused global 12


### warming and climate change are evident across 13



### America and all around the world. Glaciers are 14


### melting, forests

-- the last speaker gave us 15


### quite a picture, but I’ll just say how I 16



### summarized it

-- forests are burning. T hey’re 17


### succumbing to insect invasions, dangerous heat 18


### waves and droughts are spreading, and sea levels 19


### are rising. 20


### Unless humanity rapidly reduces 21


### greenhouse gas emissions, the Earth is on track 22

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### to become a grim, hot, dangerous place more 1



### suited to dino saurs than humans. 2


### Now, many people in West Virginia see the 3



### issue of human

- caused global warming and climate 4


### change through the lens of coal, and rightly so. 5


### Coal is a magnificent fuel. For generations, the 6


### bravery and the sacrifice of people who min e coal 7


### all over the world has powered the creation of 8



### our very modern world. 9



### But even the most ardent spokesperson for 10


### the people who mine coal, our late great senator 11


### from West Virginia, Robert C. Byrd, called on his 12


### fellow West Virginians and on the people who run 13


### the coal industry to stop denying the reality of 14



### human

- caused global warming and climate change 15



### and to embrace the future. Senator Byrd 16


### recognized, and many West Virginians do too, that 17



### until the citizens of the United States of 18



### America, wh ere we have already built so much, 19



### unless

-- using fossil fuels, unless we in 20


### America step up to the plate and put a serious 21


### national carbon emissions limitation system in 22

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### place, we have no hope of getting a global 1


### agreement that reigns in carbon emissions in the 2


### developing world from people who have so far to 3



### go, and unless we get that global agreement, 4


### humanity and our beloved Allegheny Highlands 5


### included, are in the crosshairs. It won’t just 6


### be maple trees and brook trout and a ski industry 7



### that we’re s aying goodbye to on an overheated 8


### planet, it will be our security and our way of 9



### life. 10



### Of course, the EPA’s proposed carbon 11


### emissions limitation rules are not perfect, and 12


### it is good and it’s important that people are 13


### strongly criticizing those proposals. This is 14


### the American way. It would be better if we had 15


### rules set by Congress, but that’s not in the 16


### cards. So we expect EPA to take every comment it 17


### receives into account and we expect major 18


### improvements to the proposed rules. 19



### I have three more para graphs. Can I give 20



### them to you? 21



### MR. KOERBER: We do need to cut it off at 22

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### this point. 1


### MR. RODD: All right. Really quickly. 2



### MR. KOERBER: If you want to take a 3



### second to wrap up. 4



### MR. RODD: Most experts say these rules 5


### will give states quite a bit of flexibility and 6


### time. West Virginians will expect our unions and 7


### our community leaders and elected representatives 8


### and businesses and public officials to take 9


### advantage of that flexibility and time. Thanks 10


### for your attention. Despite differing 11



### perspect ives, we are truly, as a previous speaker 12


### said, all in this together. Too much is at 13


### stake, too much is at risk for any further delay. 14



### Thank you. 15



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 16



### Mr. Hoguet? 17



### MR. HOGUET: Hoguet. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Hoguet. 19



### MR. HOGUET: Yes. 20



### MR. KOERBER: My apologies. 21



### MR. HOGUET: Thank you. Thank you for 22

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### this opportunity to speak. My name is George 1



### Hoguet ; t hat’s H

- o

- g

- u

- e

- t. 2



### I live in the Pittsburgh area, as do 3


### several of my children and my six grandchildren, 4



### and I’m here, frankly, on t heir behalf. 5


### On Father’s Day in 1992, I wrote a poem 6


### to my dad that began, in part, “Dad, you’ve 7


### always been a great planner, you quietly build 8


### the dams and dikes that protect us all from the 9


### unexpected floods of life. That is what being a 10



### father means to you. Thank you.” 11


### I realize that that is what being a 12



### father and a grandfather means to be me also. 13


### Looking ahead, protecting, and that’s why I’m 14



### here today. 15



### From 2002 to 2011, I as involved with 16


### community

- based clean energy project, six of 17



### which ar e methane digesters on family

- owned 18


### dairies here in Pennsylvania. From those multi

19


### generational farms, one of them established in 20


### 1774, I heard about the erratic changing weather 21


### that they were seeing and how it was affecting 22

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### their businesses. They would never use the words 1


### “global warming,” but they said that the rains 2


### were coming too early and too heavy, and there’d 3


### be no rain for a period of weeks

-- well, it was 4


### coming too heavy
, and they couldn’t get the corn 5



### in the ground to feed the cows on time; a nd then 6


### there’d be no rains for weeks and weeks, stunting 7



### the corn’s growth. 8


### They said that they never remember having 9


### to deal with the levels of heat and humidity 10


### either, which were affecting the cows and the 11


### milk production directly. These farmers n eeded 12


### to add fans and cooling systems in their barns to 13



### cool their cows. 14


### I also spoke with others from rising

-- 15


### about rising temperatures affecting then the 16


### Maple Sugar producers, the few remaining in PA as 17



### the maples moved north, and members of Trout 18


### Unlimited who were concerned about rising stream 19



### temperatures

-- and I thought it was 20


### Pennsylvania’s brook trout. 21


### In the midst of that period, with the 22

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### arrival of my third grandchild, I became a 1


### volunteer member of the Climate Reality Project, 2



### an educatio nal organization founded by former 3


### Vice President Al Gore. Since 2007, I have given 4


### dozens of climate education presentations for 5


### many audiences, including the senior management 6


### of Dannon Yogurt and other corporations. And I 7


### will present tonight at Carne gie Mellon. 8


### What scares me and brings me here today 9


### is that in the last two years, I can hardly 10


### finish preparing these presentations when some 11


### new weather event or study shows up I feel like I 12


### need to address, like the unprecedented fires in 13



### the northwest last week, scorching more than 14


### 800,000 acres, burning 300 homes, or the news 15


### that 100 percent of California, the state from 16


### which we receive 90 percent of all the fruits and 17


### vegetables grown in this country, has been in 18


### severe or exceptional drought since May. 19



### N ow relatedly, the USDA retail price 20


### report on fruits and vegetables dated July 25th 21


### shows retail prices in June on most items up 11 22

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### to 20 percent over a year ago, 33 percent up on 1


### plums. NPR reported in March that the wholesale 2


### price of coffee has doubled since January, due in 3


### large part to the continuing drought in Brazil 4


### and Vietnam. These costs are above and beyond 5



### even the health costs that other speakers have 6


### spoken about from carbon pollution, and they’re 7


### already affecting my family. And these affects 8


### are tied to just a one degree C rise in global 9



### temperatures over the last 100 years. 10



### As I look at CO 2 

### rates now steadily above 11


### 400 parts per million since May, and the IPCC and 12


### other forecasting an additional one degree C or 13


### two degree C ri se by mid

- century, when my 14


### grandson Ethan will be about 40 years old, it 15


### gives mid

- life crisis a whole new and frightening 16


### meaning. So I’m looking for those dams and dikes 17



### that my dad spoke about that I can support to 18



### protect Ethan and others, and your Cl ean Power 19



### Plan is one of them. 20


### On July 14th, the UN released an injury 21



### report called Pathways to Deep Decarbonization , a 22

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### report which looks at what it is going to take 1



### around the world to stay below a two degree C 2


### rise this century. When it looks into th e United 3


### States, that path comes directly through the 4


### electrical power generation industry. 5


### Electrical power generation is both the 6


### largest part of the problem, generating 40 7


### percent of the emissions, and a major solution. 8



### We need conservation and we need energy 9


### efficiency, but we actually also need to use more 10


### electricity, clean electricity to power engines, 11


### automobiles, and other machines that normally 12


### would use fossil fuels, so there is a great 13


### opportunity for investment and jobs related to 14



### solar, w ind, and other renewables. 15


### So I thank you again for this opportunity 16



### to speak and I urge you to move forward on your 17


### Clean Power Plan as one of the first steps in 18


### these dams and dikes that not only protect our 19


### children, but also offer new opportunity for that 20


### generation. Thank you. 21


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Appreciate 22

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### your testimony. 1



### MR. HOGUET: Thank you. 2


### MR. KOERBER: How’s everybody doing? 3


### Temperature okay in here , t oo hot, too cold? 4



### Everybody good? Okay. I’d say we could open a 5



### window, bu t I’d be kidding you. 6



### UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I’m just impressed 7


### that you guys are taking notes , which is 8



### excellent. T hank you. 9



### MR. KOERBER: Yeah. There’s some very 10


### good thoughts today. And again, I really 11


### appreciate everybody helping us on this rule. We 12


### learn a lot from these sessions, so thank you. 13



### Next I’d like to call Seamus McGraw and 14



### Judy Roseman. 15


### No. Did you sign in at the desk 16


### downstairs? Okay. 17



### Okay. He went down to go check the desk. 18



### So we'll get you on the next card. My 19


### apologizes. 20



### Mr. McGraw? 21



### MR. MCGRAW: Good afternoon. My name is 22

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### Seamus McGraw, S

- e

- a

- m

- u

- s, M

- c

- g

- r

- a

- w. 1


### I am a writer by trade, not a 2


### particularly good one, a father of four. I'm not 3


### terribly good at that either. I'm a 4


### Pennsylvanian. 5



### MR. KOERBER: W e all try, s ir. 6


### MR. MCGRAW: I'm a Pennsylvanian. I'm a 7


### lousy hunter and a worse fisherman. It's because 8


### I'm all of those things that I'm grateful to have 9


### the opportunity to speak to you today in support 10



### of the Clean Power Plan. 11


### For years now I've been raising my 12



### children in the lush woods of northeastern 13


### Pennsylvania trying to teach them to fish, 14


### prepare them to hunt, and in recent years I've 15


### spent hours trying to explain to them, as best I 16



### can, the changes that they see around them. 17



### In their short lifetimes, the y've noticed 18



### the hotter summers, the more erratic winters, the 19


### more violent storms that rage later in the 20


### season, the mutations we increasingly see in the 21


### fish in the Delaware and Susquehanna Rivers. 22

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### I've shown them that less than 70 miles 1



### to the east of us, the whiting that used t o 2


### gather so thickly in the Raritan Bay that you 3


### could almost use them as stepping stones are no 4



### longer there. They understand that much of that 5



### may be due to our rapacious consumption of 6


### everything, but particularly energy, and 7


### specifically the dirty energy we use to produce 8


### electricity. 9


### What I've been unable to explain to them 10


### is why until now so little has been done to curb 11



### that profligate consumption of coal, the 12


### filthiest of the fossil fuels, or why little has 13



### been done to r educe the amount of precious water 14


### consumed in the process. Frankly, that's why I 15


### leaped at the opportunity to ride out here and 16


### speak to you today. Thank you for giving me an 17


### example I could point to and show my kids that 18


### there are people who are trying to make a 19



### difference to restore some measure of balance to 20


### our injured lands. 21



### The Clean Power Plan you are considering 22

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### will, if properly implemented, take a big bite 1



### out of the amount of CO 2 

### we pour into the 2


### atmosphere, reducing it by 30 percent by the t ime 3


### my youngest child in 26. It can, by steps, move 4


### us away from the dirtiest forms of fossil fuel to 5


### cleaner sources, including wind, which has made 6


### great strides here in Pennsylvania, and solar. 7



### It will do more than that, of course. It 8



### will, in all li kelihood, reduce mercury 9


### contamination of our waterways, which is a 10


### problem that continues to plague my state and 11


### other and sometimes makes us fear eating the fish 12


### we catch by reducing our dependence on coal, the 13


### single largest source of that contamination

. 14


### Equally importantly, the plan balances 15


### the need for reliable energy for a robust economy 16


### with the need for conservation and preservation, 17


### and it does it in a way that is familiar to 18


### anyone who’s spent time in our woods. It’s an 19


### exercise in using what y ou already have to make 20



### what you need. I can tell you, as the father of 21


### four nearly feral children, there is no more 22

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### critical skill for a young hunter or angler to 1



### develop. 2


### It is not a perfect plan. No plan ever 3


### is. Especially in its early years, it re lies 4


### heavily on the development of our newly unleashed 5


### bounty of natural gas, much of it coming from 6


### this state, some of it from my own land. And 7


### that naturally carries with it its own specific 8


### risks. Some, perhaps many of those risks may be 9



### manageable, but that will require vigilance from 10



### the landowners themselves, the states, and the 11



### EPA, and I trust that there will be other 12


### opportunities to discuss those necessary 13


### safeguards. But for the moment, this plan is a 14


### groundbreaking step in the right directio n, and 15



### as a bad hunter, a worse fisherman, and a 16


### mediocre father, I thank you for taking that step 17


### for me and my children and I urge its prompt 18


### adoption. Thank you. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 20



### Ms. Roseman? 21



### MS. ROSEMAN: Thank you very much. And I 22

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### wa nt to thank you all very much for having the 1


### patience to sit through person after person and 2


### opinion after opinion listening to all of us, and 3


### I’m so grateful to have the ability to speak with 4


### you myself. I’m a businesswoman. I have my own 5



### company, a $2 million company I’m proud to say I 6


### built by myself from scratch while raising my two 7


### kids, so I understand the importance of 8


### protecting jobs ; and I understand the importance 9


### of creating new types of industries and new jobs 10


### and new opportunities for all of our people. 11


### My name is Judy Roseman. I live in 12


### Moreland Hills, Ohio. I’m the proud mother of 13


### Hillary, age 16, and Evan, age 13. And although 14



### I am a businesswoman, I am here as a mother. I 15


### am taking the day off from supporting my ability 16



### to make payrol l for my employees and to take care 17


### of my kids to fight for a safe and habitable 18


### planet for my children and for all of our 19



### children. 20


### I am sure each of you, at some point, has 21



### witnessed a mother take action when she believed 22

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### to her core that someone or s omething was 1


### threatening her children, and that is me. I am 2


### asking you to reduce carbon emissions as 3


### aggressively as possible. The proposed draft 4


### that you all have is very thoughtful. I support 5


### any effort to reduce carbon emissions, including 6



### what you h ave proposed, but it is not strong 7



### enough to do what we know we need to do as a 8


### society to protect our children and their 9


### children. Strengthen it, please, if you at all 10



### can. 11


### Also, please protect us against harmful 12


### methane and fracking. Natural gas is no t the 13


### answer. Clean, renewable energy is the answer. 14



### I have a 16

- year

- old daughter dying to go into 15


### the renewable energy field who could not be here 16


### today because she is in a laboratory at Case 17


### Western investigating new solvents to use in 18


### creating organi c solar cells, and her big worry 19


### is that there is not enough incentive in this 20



### country to create markets for solar energy even 21


### if she gets into Stanford or University of 22

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### Pennsylvania, the schools of her dreams, she 1


### might not be able to find a great job in the 2


### renewable energy industry, and we need jobs in 3



### renewable energy for our young people, our young, 4


### motivated people. 5


### Now here we find climate change deniers 6


### and representatives from oil companies and coal 7


### companies arguing often that we cannot 8



### conclus ively prove that climate change is caused 9


### by our relentless burning of fossil fuels. I 10


### would have thought that this debate would have 11



### been well settled. 12


### So here you have a mom to remind everyone 13


### that if the burden of proof that we must meet 14



### before maki ng a real, significant change is that 15


### we must be absolutely 100 percent certain that we 16


### are causing a catastrophic problem by burning 17



### fossil fuels, we will be too late to save 18


### ourselves. By the time 100 percent certainty 19



### could exist, if it could ever exis t, the path 20



### towards destruction of the beautiful life

21


### sustaining climate that we have all enjoyed will 22

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### be irreversible unless we are then able to create 1


### some amazing leap of technology for carbon 2


### capture and removal that does not exist today. 3



### And while I value and respect our engineers and 4



### inventors, I would not dare to bet the future of 5


### the safe and easy inhabitability of our planet on 6


### some innovation that does not yet exist, 7


### especially when I cannot consistently get even my 8



### iPhone to work. 9



### Humans swim i n a river of denial every 10


### day, myself included. I would like to attribute 11



### my extra 10 pounds to my bad genes passed on to 12


### me by my mother and ignore my affection for ice 13


### cream, which is probably the cause. But here, 14


### when it comes to climate change, the s takes are 15


### too high for us to be in denial. We have been 16


### given a gift, a beautiful gift of this planet 17


### which I was born into and I enjoy every day. 18


### It’s a planet where everything works together in 19


### a way that allows us to live and breathe and 20



### drink and eat so easily, and just the opportunity 21


### to live here and have it support us so 22

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### effortlessly is a gift. And the sense of 1


### entitlement and privilege on the part of the oil, 2


### coal and gas companies is infuriating to me as a 3


### mother. They think it is their right, their 4


### privilege, and their entitlement to pollute our 5


### air with as much carbon and methane as they want 6


### with little or no responsibility to clean it up 7


### and pocket the profits, leaving any problems 8


### caused by their pollution for the rest of the 9



### world to deal with, for my children and your 10



### children to deal with. 11


### If climate change is catastrophic, they 12


### will have pocketed their profits for decade with 13


### hardly a worry and the consequences will be for 14


### others to have to fix, and they think

-- I thank 15



### you very much f or your time. 16


### MR. KOERBER: Okay. Well, in response to 17


### your comment earlier about thanking the EPA for 18


### being here, let me say that we, of course, are 19


### your government and it is certainly an honor and 20


### a privilege for us to be here and to hear from 21



### all of y ou today, so really thanks to all of you 22

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### for taking the time to be with us. And thank you 1


### both for your testimony today. 2



### MS. ROSEMAN: Thank you. 3


### MR. KOERBER: I appreciate it. 4


### I’d like to call Tom Mullaney and Dr. 5



### Alan Lockwood. 6


### Thank you, sir. 7



### MR. MULLANEY: Good af ternoon. I am Tom 8



### Mullaney, T

- o

- m, M

- u

- l

- l

- a

- n

- e

- y , a resident of 9


### Glenside, Pennsylvania. I am a high school 10


### history teacher. I am fully supportive of the 11



### EPA’s proposed standard. It should be 12


### implemented promptly and without being we akened 13


### in any way. 14


### As a history teacher, I hope that as I 15


### approach retirement in the early 2040s I will 16


### teach my students about a time when Americans 17



### were concerned about carbon emissions in the 18


### atmosphere. I want to explain to students that 19



### the proble m is considered history and not a 20



### crisis in their lives because in 2014, our 21


### government took action resulting in reduced 22

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### carbon in the atmosphere and increased 1


### willingness from other countries to follow this 2


### example. I am looking forward to my lesson how 3


### the United States got carbon emissions under 4



### control. 5


### As a history teacher, I look back as 6



### well. To understand why we are here today, we 7


### need to know that the EPA has the authority 8


### granted by a bipartisan vote of Congress, signed 9


### in to law by a Republica n president, and 10


### confirmed by a Supreme Court decision written by 11



### conservative Justice Antonin Scalia to set 12


### standards for industrial carbon pollution from 13


### power plants. Setting reasonable carbon 14


### pollution standards for power plants will cut the 15


### primary d river of climate change. 16


### Carbon dioxide traps heat. This is a 17



### scientific fact. Since the dawn of the 18



### I ndustrial Age, we have increased carbon 19


### emissions, something that has irrefutably been 20



### measured and documented. In that time, 21



### temperatures have cons istently risen so much so 22

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### that globally we’ve now had 351 consecutive 1



### months above the long

- term average. That means 2


### that a 29 year old has never lived through a 3



### cooler than normal month on a global scale. 4



### This fuels extreme weather such as s uper 5



### storm S andy, which closed my school for three 6


### days in October 2012. When southeast 7


### Pennsylvania students miss three days of school 8


### for inclement weather in October, the problem is 9


### not theoretical. It is real and already 10


### impacting our daily lives. 11



### Please take action by implementing the 12


### proposed standard. I want my students in the 13


### 2040s to know about this problem because I teach 14


### it to them, not because they experience it. 15



### Thank you. 16


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 17



### Dr. Lockwood? 18



### DR. LOCKWOOD: Thank you. Goo d 19


### afternoon. My name is Alan Lockwood, A

- l

- a

- n, L

20



### o

- c

- k

- w

- o

- o

- d . I’m a board certified neurologist 21


### and an emeritus professor of neurology at the 22

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### University of Buffalo where I live. I’m a member 1


### of the board and a senior scientist at Physicians 2



### for Socia l Responsibility. 3



### PSR consists of about 25,000 members and 4


### activists in chapters and medical schools 5


### throughout the US. Our mission is to, quote, 6


### protect human life from the gravest threats to 7


### health and survival, close quote. There is no 8



### doubt in our mind that climate change is the 9


### greatest public health threat we face as a 10



### civilization. This conclusion is based on the 11


### Fifth Assessment by the IPCC that summarizes the 12



### work of some 600 scientists from 39 countries, 13



### the Third National Climate Assessment , and 14


### numerous papers published in leading peer

15


### reviewed medical and scientific journals. 16



### It is also clear that uncontrolled 17


### emissions of carbon largely from burning fossil 18


### fuels are the major driver of climate change, 19



### therefore, PSR supports EPA’s Clea n Power Plan 20



### that seeks to reduce these emissions from 21


### existing electricity generating units. However, 22

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### based on these same reports, we conclude that 1


### although this is an important step in the right 2


### direction, it will not be sufficient to prevent 3



### many of th e most severe impacts of climate 4


### change. More is needed and needed soon. 5


### Here is a partial glimpse of what must be 6



### avoided. Heat related illness such as heat 7


### stroke and heat exhaustion, already the leading 8



### cause of weather

- related deaths in the US, will 9


### become even more common. This is particularly 10


### true in our large heat island cities where 11


### children, the poor, the elderly, and those with 12


### chronic diseases are increasingly vulnerable to 13



### the heat. 14


### Changes in rainfall will increase the 15



### risk for serious f loods in North America. 16



### Droughts and mega droughts such as the one that 17


### gripped most of the nation in 2012 and currently 18


### affects large parts of the southwest will also 19



### become more common, more severe, and last longer. 20


### Yields of food crops, including corn , soybeans 21


### and rice that are already depressed by climate 22

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### change will fall even more. Crop failures will 1


### drive up the prices beyond the 20 percent spike 2


### seen in July 2012 due to the Midwestern drought. 3


### Food shortages will exacerbate under

4



### nutrition eve rywhere. Here at home, more than 40 5


### million citizens rely on the supplemental 6


### nutrition assistance program, and in some 7



### nations, under

- nutrition affects almost half of 8


### the kids. Further weakened by starvation, 9


### children will fail to grow normally and they will 10


### be more susceptible to diseases. 11


### Mosquito

- borne illnesses such as malaria, 12


### dengue, and viral encephalitis will become even 13


### greater problems. Some predict that almost half 14


### of the world’s inhabitants, including those along 15



### the Gulf Coast and southe rn Unites States will be 16


### at risk for dengue by 2085. Water

- borne 17


### diarrheal illnesses such as cholera will pose 18



### additional risk in flooded areas. 19



### Storms such as s uper storm Sandy and 20



### other forms of more localized severe weather will 21



### become more common, damaging property, and 22

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### killing and injuring those unable to flee. Sea 1



### levels will continue to rise due to thermal 2


### expansion of the oceans and melting ice. 3


### Inhabitants of major river deltas will become 4


### environmental refugees due to flooding. Rising 5



### ocean s combined with storm surges already 6


### threated areas that were previously safe. 7


### Unstoppable, a term recently applied to melting 8


### Antarctic ice will apply to other threats. 9


### PSR strongly supports EPA’s mission to 10


### protect human health and the environment. We 11


### appreciate the enormous health benefits that have 12


### already been the result of the Clean Air Act. It 13


### is past time to expand these benefits by reducing 14


### carbon dioxide emissions from new power plants 15


### and move on to the greater and more important 16



### task of re ducing these emissions from existing 17


### sources, encouraging energy efficiency, and 18


### expanding our inventory of renewable energy 19


### sources by working closely with states, public 20



### health officials, and other stakeholders. This 21


### is the only way to slow, stop and re verse the 22

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### public health threats posed by global warming. 1


### The time for waiting has passed. We urge the EPA 2


### to finalize the proposed limit to carbon 3


### emissions as soon as possible, and then move on 4


### to additional protections needed to curb methane 5



### and other greenhouse gas emissions. As the 6



### world’s most advanced nation, we owe this to our 7


### children, grandchildren, and generations to come. 8



### Thank you very much. 9



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, Dr. Lockwood. 10



### Thank you both. 11


### I’m sorry, sir. What’s your name again? 12



### M R. MILLER: My name is Scott Miller. 13



### MR. KOERBER: Ye s. S cott Miller is

– 14



### MR. MILLER: Chris Miller made the 15


### appointment for me to speak. 16


### MR. KOERBER: Can you go check him in? 17


### Next I’d like to call Cindy Dunn and 18



### Gretchen Dahlkemper. Ms. Dunn, do you want to go 19



### first? 20



### MS. DUNN: Sure. Today I’m actually 21


### going to read testimony from Dr. Michael Mann 22

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### instead of my own testimony, if that’s okay. 1



### MR. KOERBER: Sure. 2


### MS. DUNN: And just for those in the 3



### audience who don’t know him, he wrote a book The 4


### Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars , and I’m just 5


### going to read his testimony in the first person. 6


### That feels very humbling and an honor to do that. 7



### MR. KOERBER: I’m sorry. So are you 8


### offering this on your behalf or

– 9



### MS. DUNN: On his behalf. 10



### MR. KOER BER: Oh his behalf, okay. 11



### MS. DUNN: Yes, yes. 12



### MR. KOERBER: To be

-- just to be clear. 13



### Thank you very much. 14



### MS. DUNN: And a gain, my name is Cindy 15



### Dunn, D

- u

- n

- n . Okay. 16


### “My name is Dr. Michael Mann. I am 17


### Distinguished P rofessor of M eteorology and 18



### D irector of Earth System Science Center at Penn 19


### State University. 20



### I have spent most of my academic career 21


### studying climate science, and like the vast 22

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### majority of climate scientists in every major 1


### scientific organization in this country that 2



### deals with th e underlying science, I recognize 3


### the overwhelming evidence for the conclusion that 4


### our planet is warming up and our reliance on 5



### fossil fuels is the cause. 6



### There’s no real debate about that 7


### anymore. The only debate is how fast the change 8



### will occur and how serious the consequences will 9


### be. The science is in, and except for a few 10


### outliers, nearly all scientists view global 11


### warming as a threat to our economy, our nationa l 12


### security, our food supply

-- our very way of 13



### life. 14



### We have a fundamental scienti fic 15


### understanding of the cau se of the warming of our 16



### planet

-- t he escalating concentration of 17


### greenhouse gases in the atmosphere due to fossil 18


### fuel burning and other human activities. And we 19


### understand the impact this is having on other 20



### aspects of our cl imate
, including ocean and wind 21


### currents, rainfall and drought patterns, the 22

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### melting of ice, and the ris e in sea levels

. T here 1


### are uncertainties in our projections of the 2



### future . Y et , uncertainty is hardly our friend. 3



### In many respects, the changes are fa ster and 4


### larger than predicted by the climate models of 5


### just a decade ago. For instance, the rate of 6



### loss of sea ice in the Arctic and accelerated 7


### melting and the breakup of the Greenland and 8



### Antarctic ice sheets
, leading to upward revisions 9


### in the projec ted sea level rise. 10


### Given the potential adverse impacts to 11


### our global society that these will cause, 12


### prudence dictates that we make every effort to 13


### reduce carbon pollution, the driving force behind 14


### climate change. Yet some of our elected 15


### representatives seem willing to perform a grand, 16


### uncontrolled and unprecedented experiment on our 17


### planet by refusing to support efforts to reduce 18


### our warming

- caused carbon emissions. They seem 19



### to want to wait until the full effects of climate 20


### change are undeniably presen t before considering 21


### taking action. Unfortunately, by then
, it will 22

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### be too late. 1


### And that is why the p resident’s Clean 2



### Power Plan and EPA rules to reduce carbon 3


### pollution from major sources are so important. 4


### Because Congress seems unwilling to act, we must 5



### rely on the p resident’s use of administrative 6


### actions to reduce carbon pollution. No president 7


### has done more to tackle global warming, and this 8


### new rule for existing power plants should be only 9


### a first step. Further reductions will likely be 10



### necess ary. 11


### I cannot emphasize enough how important 12


### it is to act now. Global warming is not some 13


### distant future phenomenon. It’s happening here, 14


### now, and already affecting weather patterns, 15


### agriculture, water supplies, and critical 16



### ecosystems. I urge you to take the strongest 17


### possible actions to limit greenhouse gas 18


### emissions so that future generations do not look 19


### back at us and wonder why we failed to act in 20


### time to avert catastrophic impacts on our 21



### planet.” 22

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### Thank you. 1



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Ms. Dahlk emper? 2


### MS. DAHLKEMPER: Good morning. My name 3


### is Gretchen Dahlkemper, G

- r

- e

- t

- c

- h

- e

- n, D

- a

- h

- l

4



### k

- e

- m

- p

- e

- r . I’m the national field manager of 5



### Moms Clean Air Force , the force of over 340,000 6


### parents across the United States. 7



### We banded together three years ago in 8


### support of your agency’s mercury and air toxic 9



### standards, and today I want to thank you for 10


### being here, and Administrator McCarthy for once 11


### again taking an important step in protecting 12


### America’s children, including my own three from 13



### the devast ating effects of toxic air pollution. 14


### I dropped a banner downstairs from all the kids 15


### across Pennsylvania that couldn’t be here today, 16


### and I know that it will go to Mr. Garvin’s office 17



### after today. 18



### MR. GARVIN: Thank you. 19


### MS. DAHLKEMPER: Climate change is the 20


### greatest public threat we face as a civilization, 21


### and it is also the greatest challenge that I face 22

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### as a mother. Children and other vulnerable 1


### populations worldwide are already suffering from 2


### the health effects of a changing climate. 3


### Without aggr essive action to limit the air 4


### pollution that causes climate change, we will see 5


### increased suffering among children on a global 6



### scale. 7


### To turn the tide on the coming public 8


### health catastrophe, we need prompt action to 9


### sharply limit carbon dioxide emission s, one of 10


### the major drivers of climate change. However, 11


### many moms like me, we don’t think that the Clean 12



### Power Plan goes far enough. 13


### EPA’s goal proposed is to reduce 14


### emissions by 30 percent, quite frankly, does not 15


### protect our children. Moms and dads want 16


### stricter limits on the carbon dioxide pollution 17


### that is harming our children and threatening 18


### their future. Today I ask you to move ahead and 19



### finalize the rule that reduces our carbon 20


### emissions by 40 percent by the year 2020. 21



### Why, some of you may ask , do moms care 22

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### about a 640

- page highly technical proposed rule 1



### on power plants? Because our current path of 2



### unchecked carbon, it harms our kids. I 3


### sympathize with the families who are outside 4


### today. I’m ever concerned about their families’ 5


### jobs. I grew up in w estern Pennsylvania. I know 6


### that the fear that comes with uncertainty and 7


### change. However, I don’t sympathize with their 8


### bosses, the people who lie to us about what their 9


### product is doing to children and to people across 10



### the globe. 11



### Just like the tobacco industry, the 12


### fossil fuel industry continues to lie to the 13


### American people, they continue to

-- they refuse 14


### to admit that their product is directly 15


### responsible for deaths. 16



### I am a mom to three small children, two 17



### of which suffer from chronic ill nesses that are 18


### directly impacted by a changing climate. 19


### Fiona is a feisty three

- year

- old. She 20


### loves to play outside and she suffers from 21


### asthma. I’m no stranger to going to the ER at 22

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### midnight when she can’t breathe after being 1


### outside playing. When the air quality is bad. 2


### Declan is only one. He suffers from a 3



### rare form of a mast cell disease. Extended and 4


### intense allergy seasons, coupled with high heat 5


### cause his tiny body to become severely inflamed, 6


### and causes my husband and I to miss work and fo r 7



### him to miss time outside. 8



### I f industry voices have their way and 9



### EPA’s Clean Power Plan is weakened or scuttled, 10



### we can be sure that climate

- related health 11


### impacts will continue . Dr. Lockwood listed what 12


### those health impacts would be, and I will tell 13



### yo u, when I hear that list as a mom, I simply 14


### cannot look away without raising my voice. The 15


### scope of these problems will make the worst flu 16


### epidemic look like a case of sniffles. That’s 17


### why parents are coming together to protect 18


### children and future genera tions from the health 19


### effects of climate change. 20


### Power plants are required to limit 21


### emissions of harmful industrial pollutants such 22

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### as sulfur oxides, mercury, and the chemical 1



### precursors of asthma

– producing ground level 2



### ozone. In the past few decades, su ch limits have 3


### paved the way for air quality improvements and 4


### the health benefit of millions. It is past time 5


### to use the Clean Air Act once again to safeguard 6


### the health of our children by limiting the amount 7


### of carbon dioxide plants are allowed to emit. 8


### Moms know that kind of pollution is 9


### harming our families and our communities, and 10


### this proposed rule is an important first step in 11


### addressing greenhouse gases. No, the Clean Power 12


### Plan will not solve climate change and isolation. 13



### As a nation, we will have to tackle methane leaks 14


### from oil and gas. As a planet, we will have to 15


### forge unprecedented systems of international 16


### cooperation. But all journeys, much like my one

17



### year

- old’s, begins with the first step. As the 18



### world’s most advanced nation, we owe it to our 19


### children, to our grandchildren, and the 20


### generations to come to take that step boldly and 21



### fast. Thank you. 22

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### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both 1


### for being here today. 2



### MS. DUNN: Thank you. 3



### MS. DAHLKEMPER: Thank you. 4



### MR. KOERBER: Next I’d like to call Pat 5



### Smead and Ariana Nelson. 6



### MS. SNEAD: It’s Snead. 7



### MR. KOERBER: Snead? 8



### MS. SNEAD: S

- ne

- a

- d. 9


### MR. KOERBER: Oh, okay. Either I have a 10


### bad card or I can’t read. Take your pick
, 11



### p robably both. 12



### MR. KOERBER: Whenever you’re ready, Ms. 13



### Snead. 14


### MS. SNEAD: Okay. My name is Patricia 15



### Snead, P

- a

- t

- r

- i

- c

- a, S

- n

- e

- a

- d . I live in 16


### Charleston, West Virginia, and I want the EPA to 17



### enforce these rules as far as not only

-- well, 18


### they’re already in law, but they need enforced. 19


### This past winter , I didn’t have any water 20


### in my house for 10 days. And, you know, it’s 21



### fine . E verybody came, they brought us bottled 22

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### water, but after a few days you think, you know, 1


### I kind of need a bath. We’re used to being 2



### clean. 3



### So I had already

-- I’m concerned about 4


### the environment. I had already

-- the previous 5


### summer had installed a rain barrel at my 6


### downspout, but I’d already cleaned it out for the 7


### wintertime because you don’t want it to freeze 8


### your rain barrel. So I’d already cleaned it out, 9



### but our weath erman said, “It’s going to rain 10



### tomorrow

. ” S o I went out and hooked my rain 11



### barrel back up. 12


### It was like I was living in my granny’s 13


### house up in the holler. I had to go get a bucket 14


### of water out of my rain barrel, take it into the 15



### house

. I was lucky I had electricity to heat the 16



### water. The power hadn’t gone off. Then I took 17



### it into my bathtub. I had a little dishpan
, and 18


### I had me a little bath in my

-- just because I 19


### had my rain barrel. 20



### But we need to know that we can’t take 21



### advantage of our pla net. I know you think you go 22

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### turn the faucet on, you think, o h, I’m going to 1


### have water. If it’s gone, it’s not there. 2


### So my father was a coal miner. I do 3


### sympathize with the coal miners, but I do think 4


### we need to try to see if we can have other 5



### sou rces of energy, clean energy that will not 6


### affect the health of the community. But you need 7



### to have the enforcement too because when I walked 8



### out of my house that day when there was water and 9



### I could smell the licorice smell

-- my daughter 10


### and I were goin g to dinner

-- the reason why that 11


### was there was because there was not regulation s 12


### enforced on that industry, which was a chemical 13


### for the coal industry leaked into our water 14



### source for Canal (phonetic) Valley. 15


### So just having the laws is one thing, but 16



### you have to have enforcement; and you can’t go 17


### and start giving exemptions, exceptions, or 18



### “Well, we need more time.” 19


### We’re running out of time. A few years 20



### ago, I went up to Alaska because I wanted to see 21


### the glaciers before they all melted, and they are 22

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### melting. I took a tour out through the

-- in the 1



### ocean , and I saw all of these glaciers c oming 2



### down. A nd the captain just said, “Wow, here’s 3


### your entertainment.” And there I am, I’m 4


### watching the fresh water of the earth melting 5



### into the ocean. Y ou know what the ocean is? 6


### Salt. So we’re losing fresh water. So that’s 7


### part of my thing as far as the planet for my 8



### children. 9


### Now, the other thing is, as far as the 10


### mining of coal, I’ve seen the results of the 11


### flooding from the mountaintop removal. I have a 12



### cousin that had no idea

-- you know, it had 13


### rained and he had no idea, he stepped out of his 14


### house, the creek had swept under his house and he 15


### stepped into a hole up to his chest. They were 16


### able to get out of his house. I know other 17



### stories down in the area

-- t his was in Raleigh 18


### County, where I’m originally from

-- b ut where 19



### the floodwaters come up so fast, people don’t 20


### know it’s coming and, you know, they try to

-- to 21



### try to

-- to get out and run ; and one girl died. 22

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### So thank you. 1



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, ma’am. Ms. 2



### Nelson? 3


### MS. NELSON: My name is Ariana Nelson, A

4



### r

- i

- a

- n

- a , and Nelson the original way. I’m here 5


### as a part of Pittsburgh Citizen Climate Lobby. 6


### I’m also a prospective nursing student, so one of 7



### the issues I want to touch on is h ow climate 8



### carbon affects health as well. 9


### Burning fossil fuels is making us sick 10


### and costing us money. The burning of fossil 11


### fuels contributes to four out of five leading 12


### causes of death in the United States, including 13



### the heart disease, the cancer, th e stroke, and 14


### lung diseases, while putting children at risk for 15



### asthma and delayed mental development. 16


### All of these missed work days, hospital 17


### visits, and deaths not only cause suffering, but 18


### they handicap our economy increased insurance 19


### premiums and co ntribute to the unsustainable 20


### growth in health care costs. 21


### Fossil fuels only seem cheap because we 22

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### pay the price, the poor health and higher 1


### insurance premiums. Coal plants alone cause more 2


### than 13,000 deaths each year in the United 3



### States . According to the National Academy of 4


### Sciences, the burning of fossil fuels causes 120 5


### billion annual in mostly health

- related damages. 6


### Healthcare costs are expensive. I’d go to my 7



### doctor before I had health insurance and, I mean, 8


### if it’s something serious, you got t he medication 9


### cost, you have the visit cost . S o , I mean, for 10


### anybody, it could rack up. You could have all 11


### the insurance in the world, but it’s still going 12



### to cost you a lot of money. 13



### The market of fossil fuels do not reflect 14



### their true costs. Your ele ctricity bill does not 15


### reflect the cost of your asthmatic daughter’s 16


### visits to the emergency room. Your price at the 17


### pump does not reflect the financial and emotional 18



### cost of your father’s heart attack. 19


### My grandfather just had a heart attack 20



### because h is whole life, he did work in coal 21


### mining as a younger man, but he mostly did truck 22

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### driving, and just the stress of being out working 1


### really hard in the heat doing labor, it causes a 2



### lot of stress. It ages you. Anybody that I know 3


### that works in any of th ose fields, they look a 4


### lot older than they are. He’s got fingers 5


### missing. He has a lot of healthcare costs he had 6


### to pay. He was in a fire explosion that happened 7


### and half of his face was burned. He had to pay 8


### for them to graft skin from other parts o f his 9


### body to cover the scarring. 10


### He’s not a rich man. These are things he 11



### can’t afford. Not to mention, it cuts into costs 12


### of other things he should be affording like food. 13



### You have to

– the whole argument that was in the 14


### news a couple years ago, pi lls, food, I mean, 15


### that really does happen with families, and it 16


### happens to a lot more people than I think people 17


### imagine. They think it’s just the poor people, 18


### but it’s cutting into the middle class. I mean, 19


### the middle class is getting smaller. So it’s 20


### cutting into more people. 21



### Carbon fee, with CCL, the Citizen Climate 22

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### Lobby, we’re asking the EPA to

-- the Carbon Fee 1


### and Dividend Legislation would make fossil fuel’s 2


### market reflect their true costs to society, 3


### thereby leveling the playing field for heal thier 4


### energy sources. This simple transparent revenue

5


### neutral step will prevent your father’s stroke or 6


### your child’s asthma attack while saving money and 7


### slowly climate change

-- slowing climate change. 8



### You can contact them about that. 9


### But we’re asking the EPA to include 10


### recommendations for how states might satisfy EPA 11



### rules, a revenue

- neutral carbon tax using a fee 12


### and dividend approach similar to the legislation 13


### CCL advocates. They were in Washington D.C., I 14


### think, about last month talking about that. I 15



### believe that if this form of carbon tax is 16


### implemented on a state by state level, the 17


### economic benefits would push other states and 18


### nations to pursue it. It’s pretty much what it’s 19


### stating is if you increase the tax that you place 20


### on carbon, obviously , eventually that would level 21


### it out so that people aren’t having to pay extra

. 22

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### I t would help slow climate change and that would 1


### contribute to healthier people, healthier 2


### community
, and healthier planet. So thank you. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both 4


### for being here today. 5


### We have just a few more speakers then we 6


### are going to take a short break. And Mr. Nelson, 7



### we do have you

-- or Mr. Miller, we do have you 8



### so we’ll get to you. 9


### Just a reminder, if you have signed up to 10


### speak in advance and you were assigned to Room B, 11


### make sure you do check in downstairs so we don’t 12


### miss you. 13



### Next I’d like to call Christina Zhou and 14



### Arlene Mercurio. 15


### MS. ZHOU: All right. Good afternoon. 16



### I’m Christina Zhou, C

- h

- r

- i

- s

- t

- i

- n

- a, N

- a

- z

- h

- o

17



### u , and I’m another voi ce speaking out for Climate 18



### Solutions. 19


### Once again, thank you all for organizing 20


### this really great opportunity for all of us to 21


### speak today. My parents are immigrants from 22

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### Chin a, and that’s not really something you can 1


### imagine happening over there. 2


### I j ust graduated from Stanford University 3


### in environmental engineering
, and I’ll be going 4



### back next

-- this fall for another master’s 5


### degree in the same engineering department. 6


### Currently I am working as a summer fellow with 7



### the Natural Resources Events Counc il back home in 8


### New York to further analysis of this Clean Power 9



### Plan. 10



### As a student, I learned about the 11


### processes by which pollutants change our 12



### atmosphere and affect our health, as well as 13


### realistic and cost effective ways to bring about 14



### a cleaner env ironment. And as a recent graduate, 15


### I often think about how I can support myself and 16


### eventually my family, when they can no longer 17


### work while contributing to the public good. 18


### My parents came to this country with 19


### almost nothing. And to provide me with a better 20



### future, they worked me

– they worked their way up 21


### from odd jobs to running their own small 22

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### business. From this struggle, I’ve gained a real 1


### appreciation for the importance of creating 2


### opportunities for future generations, and I’m 3



### thrilled to have t his chance to push for a 4



### cleaner and more resilient America. 5



### We shouldn’t have to choose between the 6



### economy and a clean energy future. Workers 7


### shouldn’t have to choose between lifelong health 8


### impacts of jobs in dirty industries and putting 9



### food on the t able. For this reason, and many 10


### others, I support the Clean Power Plan, which 11



### will move our nation forward and foster our 12


### technological leadership in the energy field. 13


### This groundbreaking regulation will provide 14


### opportunities for people to keep America s trong 15


### and at the forefront of innovation while cutting 16


### harmful pollution and creating jobs. 17


### As an engineer, I do trust in the power 18


### of technology, but I’ve learned that it is 19


### actually policy and regulations that drive 20



### innovation. Studies have found that flexible 21



### standards like the Clean Power Plan will drive 22

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### businesses to be more competitive globally and at 1


### home. The Industry Studies Association, actually 2


### based here in Pittsburgh, found that strict car 3


### pollution standards for carbon monoxide and 4



### hydrocar bons in the 70s incentivized US auto 5


### makers to innovate, making them more competitive 6



### than many overseas manufacturers. 7


### Additionally, recent fuel economy rules 8


### are estimated to provide around half a million 9


### jobs by 2030. We’ve seen in this example and 10



### ma ny others that moving actively on new standards 11


### will benefit both companies and their workers. 12


### The Clean Power Plan is flexible, giving 13


### states many opportunities to meet their goals. 14


### Each state gets a target based on its existing 15



### resources and progres s to date, but can comply by 16


### selecting from many of various different options. 17


### This flexibility lets each state choose the most 18


### economical approach for its electricity customers 19


### considering available resources, economic 20


### potential, and more human impacts s uch as jobs, 21


### environmental justice, and the enormous public 22

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### health benefits of reducing carbon and other air 1



### pollutants. 2


### As it turns out, the opportunities 3



### offered in the Clean Power Plan benefit both the 4


### economy and its people. Here in Pennsy l v ania 5



### th ere exists incredible potential for creating 6



### well

- paying jobs in fields such as ren ewable 7



### energy, and our cheapest energy resource, 8


### efficiency. 9


### According to an NRDC analysis, the 10



### proposed standards could create over 5,000 new 11


### efficiency jobs in Pennsylv ania alone, though 12


### even more are possible depending on how the state 13



### meets the goal because the state can meet the 14


### goal however it chooses. 15


### Pennsylvania, especially Pittsburgh, 16


### already leads in clean energy and new 17


### technologies. A 2010 study by the Brook ings 18


### Institute ranked Pennsylvania as the state with 19



### the fourth largest green economy based on over 20


### 100,000 jobs in fast

- growing segments such as 21


### energy efficient lighting, solar
, and win d . Jobs 22

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### in this clean economy pay well, about 2,300 more 1



### than the st ate average. 2



### In addition, states like Ohio are also 3


### already in the lead with their renewable energy 4


### portfolio standards, which is saving the state 5


### millions of dollars from energy efficiency and 6


### renewable energy and generating almost 9,000 7


### jobs. West Virg inia as well h as very much 8


### potential, especially in the wind industry, to 9


### move to renewable energy, which is estimated to 10


### be able to provide up to 20 percent of the 11



### state’s energy. 12


### The Clean Power Plan gives states the 13


### opportunity to choose policies tha t increase and 14


### improve American jobs while cutting hidden costs 15



### to our children and communities like hospital 16


### visits for respiratory illnesses and other 17


### pollution

- related health effects. The EPA’s 18


### analysis of reduced greenhouse gas and other 19


### toxic polluta nt levels show that the benefits 20


### massively outweigh the cost of the program. 21



### Based on our research, we find this estimate 22

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### conservative and that real benefits will be even 1


### higher, especially if states go above and beyond 2



### the standards. 3



### I stand for the Cle an Power Plan with the 4


### majority of Americans in all states as a way to 5


### encourage a clean and brighter future. It’s hard 6


### to imagine what we are waiting for. Thank you. 7



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. And 8


### congratulations. 9



### MS. ZHOU: Oh, thank you. 10



### MR. KOERBER : Ms. Mercurio? 11


### MS. MERCURIO: Hello. My name is Arlene 12


### Mercurio. I’ll spell it
, M

- e

- r

- c

- u

- r

- i

- o. I live 13


### in New Kensington, Pennsylvania and I’m

-- I 14


### wasn’t prepared to speak, I’m filling in, but I 15



### can speak from my heart even though I have a 16



### master’s degree in public policy, I worked for 17


### years at the Graduate School of Public and 18



### International Affairs. 19



### I have been a long

- time Sierra Club 20


### member who’s been talking about climate change 21



### since the 80s, and it wasn’t the Sierra Club that 22

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### brought this hea ring and all these people here

. 1



### It ’s Mother Nature, that people can no longer 2


### deny what the Sierra Club’s been screaming about 3



### for years. 4


### But the biggest reason I’m here and the 5


### biggest reason I can talk from my heart is 6



### because I’m a grandmother, and I’m embarrassed by 7


### my generation’s inability to deal with climate 8



### change. 9


### This hour is way too late. This proposal 10


### is great, obviously, and you know, it should have 11


### been done 20 years ago. It’s a first step, but I 12



### mean, we’ll take what we can get. S o thank you. 13


### My big concern about this particular plan 14


### is, though, enforcement and that you’re giving 15


### the states way too much flexibility. 16


### Pennsylvania is a perfect example of a state that 17



### cannot be trusted to enforce this

-- these 18


### regulations. If you know anything about 19


### fracking, our government has given our state over 20


### as a sacrifice zone to the natural gas industry, 21


### and I hope at some point you guys will also 22

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### regulate methane, which is a much more powerful 1



### gas than CO 2 

### . 2


### The auditor general of Penns ylvania has 3


### just validated what the people have been 4


### experiencing and seeing in Pennsylvania, and that 5


### is that our DPA is not protecting our 6


### environment. Our Department of Environmental 7


### Resources is giving away our public lands, our 8



### parks and our state fo rests to the gas industry, 9


### and the industry hasn’t been regulated. So I 10


### don’t know why you think Pennsylvania would do a 11


### good job on trying to enforce or put forth a plan 12



### -- you’re going to have to keep a much closer eye 13



### on the states. 14



### I’m not only speak ing for my 15


### grandchildren now. I’m speaking for all the 16


### other creatures that we share this planet with, 17


### and we’re losing them at such an un

- historic 18



### rate . I ’m very concerned about the oceans. 19


### They’ve become so acidic from all the CO 2 

### . It 20


### supports life i n so many ways. Nobody’s speaking 21



### for the oceans, for the corral, for the fish , the 22

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### water, the droughts, the food, food security. 1


### I mean, all I can say is thank you for 2


### doing this. I wish my elected officials

-- I 3


### wish my government didn’t have to de pend upon the 4


### EPA and the regulators. I appreciate you guys 5


### doing what you can do. 6


### The policies that need to be put in place 7


### like carbon taxes, et cetera, that really could 8


### make a difference have to be done legislatively. 9



### If you have any pull, I cert ainly don’t anymore

- 10



### - they talk about carbon capture. Well, I’ll 11



### tell you who carbon has captured , m y government. 12



### Thanks. 13



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, ma’am. Thank 14



### you. Thanks to both of you. 15



### Next I’d like to call Scott Miller

-- 16


### finally, sir

-- and Cou rt Gould. And after the 17


### next two speakers, we’ll take a five

- minute 18



### break. 19



### MR. MILLER: Hi. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Miller? 21



### MR. MILLER: Thank you. I am Scott 22

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### Miller. I’m director of sustainability and 1


### product affairs at Knauf Insulation in 2


### Shelbyville, Indiana. We very much

-- and I’m 3


### here representing the North American Insulation 4



### Manufacturers Association as well. 5


### We appreciate EPA providing this 6


### opportunity for testimony on 111(d) and we 7


### appreciate the EPA for understanding the 8


### importance of energ y efficiency. I also am an 9


### engineer. We are a ridiculously pragmatic lot. 10


### We make fun of ourselves quite a bit, but to the 11


### pessimist, the glass is half empty
, the optimist, 12


### the glass is half full ; t o an engineer, it’s a 13


### wrong size glass. That’s the way we think. 14


### So energy efficiency seems like an 15


### underlying fundamental thing that needs to be 16


### done to give anything a snowball’s chance in hell 17


### of succeeding from a renewable standpoint. So we 18


### strongly urge the EPA to give credit for early 19


### action for gre enhouse gas reductions achieved 20


### through energy efficiency, measures such as 21


### insulation, and this provides immediate ongoing 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Connecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### energy savings and carbon reduction. 1



### We strongly urge the EPA to adopt 2


### insulation incentives that are simple and easy to 3



### validate, and to quantify the energy savings and 4


### pollution reductions achieved through insulation. 5


### These incentives should apply to installation of 6


### insulation on both new and existing structures. 7


### Energy savings achieved through insulation is the 8



### most cost effectiv e deep reduction strategy 9



### available. 10


### We urge the EPA to give credit for 11


### adoption, enforcement or upgrades to building 12


### energy codes as well. Studies conducted by 13


### Harvard, as well as Boston University which is 14



### underway to update the Harvard study, 15



### demons trates significant energy savings and 16


### pollution reduction through the improvement of 17


### energy codes, and buildings account for 18


### approximately 40 percent of the greenhouse gas 19


### emissions in this country. 20


### We encourage the EPA in establishing the 21



### best system o f emission reduction, BSER, under 22

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### Section 111(d) to go beyond just recognizing 1


### energy efficiency, but indeed promote end use 2


### energy efficiency enhancements, specifically 3


### insulation as the most important and cost 4


### effective method for states to achieve green house 5


### gas emissions at existing power plants. 6


### EPA should give states wide latitude 7



### under 111(d) to take such actions which will 8


### achieve significant reductions in energy demand 9



### and emissions at a low cost to the benefit of the 10


### state’s utilities and public. 11


### Buildings are woefully under

- insulated in 12


### this country. Everybody in this room, I almost 13


### guarantee your house is under

- insulated, and you 14



### probably have a 30

- inch hole in your house. And, 15


### you know, you’re asking for the EPA to do 16


### something about emissio ns and you could do 17


### something if you just fixed your home. 18


### So improving energy efficiency 19


### performance in building is truly low

- hanging 20



### fruit. It’s fundamental. Based on calculations 21



### from an authoritative resources, insulation 22

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### currently in place in US bu ildings reduces the 1


### amount of carbon dioxide emissions by 780 million 2


### tons per year. That’s equivalent of about 150 3



### coal

- fired power plants. And the electricity use 4


### of about 90 million homes a year is saved through 5



### insulation. 6


### We believe that a comprehe nsive 7


### insulation strategy could reduce energy and 8


### associated greenhouse gas emissions by 20 to 30 9


### percent. Insulation products save more energy 10



### than it takes to manufacture them. Insulation 11


### that goes in a home, the amount of energy it took 12



### to manufacture that insulation is recovered in 13


### about 30 days in the home. On the 31st day, it’s 14


### paying back the environment. Insulation saves 15


### over 600 times more energy than compact 16


### fluorescent bulbs, Energy Star appliances, and 17



### windows combined on an annual basis. 18



### T his also applies to industry. Energy 19


### efficiency opportunities in steam systems, for 20


### instance, can deliver significant energy savings 21


### without incurring substantial implementation 22

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### costs using publicly available software like the 1



### NAIMA 3E software that is av ailable in a public 2


### domain on the internet. Thickness computer 3


### programs can actually calculate carbon reduction 4


### as a result of applying insulation. 5


### We appreciate this opportunity to 6



### comment. Thank you. 7


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 8



### MR. GOULD: Tha t was great. I learned a 9



### lot. 10



### I'm I’m Court Gould, C

- o

- u

- r

- t, G

- o

- u

- l

11



### d. I’m executive director of Sustainable 12


### Pittsburgh , and like all the rest, appreciate 13


### this opportunity to give thoughts. 14


### Sustainable Pittsburgh is in favor of 15



### EPA’s precedent

- setti ng Clean Power Plan. We 16


### concur with the agency’s authority to limit CO 2 17


### pollution from power plants and the practicality 18


### that giving states flexibility in determining how 19


### best to reduce emissions in ways that are 20


### tailored to the interests of the local reg ional 21


### economies to protect existing jobs while reducing 22

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### emissions to create opportunities to grow good 1


### new jobs, to encourage investment, and to 2


### catalyze innovation. 3


### Going on 17 years, the mission of 4


### Sustainable Pittsburgh is to accelerate the 5


### policy and the practice of sustainability in 6


### southwestern Pennsylvania. Our charge is as much 7


### about the environment as it is economy and social 8


### equity. We see sustainability as being 9


### responsible to mitigate that which impedes 10


### progress and to duly maximize innovatio ns in 11


### favor of that which is repeatable, replenishes, 12


### creates abundance, and is just. 13



### Matters of energy systems are core to the 14


### process of sustainable development, and 15


### southwestern Pennsylvania is continuing its 16


### global case study of innovation in this are a. In 17


### between the assailing of the plan as too much or 18


### too little is the base rationale of catalyzing US 19


### innovation toward a cleaner and healthier energy 20



### future. 21



### Long

- existing federal regulation to put 22

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### limits on a myriad of pollutants emitted by power 1


### plants knowingly has had positive social, 2



### environmental and economic effects here at home, 3


### and importantly has set the bar of standards high 4



### for the rest of the world. With the ill effects 5



### well

- established of carbon dioxide concentrations 6



### on a global scal e impacting all species 7


### everywhere on the planet, it’s common sense that 8


### EPA promulgate strong and effective standards as 9


### an important first step to cutting CO2 pollution 10


### and its costly impacts, while also demonstrating 11


### US leadership in inviting other nati ons to follow 12



### suit. 13


### Right here, southwestern Pennsylvania has 14



### had a long

- recognized history as a global leader 15


### in innovations and we are recognized as having 16


### extraordinarily rich natural resources. With 17



### that abundance of that wealth comes 18


### responsibility. Our region has the ingenuity to 19



### not only meet the challenges of the proposed 20


### Clean Power Plan targets, but to best them in 21


### development of clean technologies, energy 22

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### efficiency technology, insulation, market 1


### programs that support workers and communities 2



### t hrough job creation, and also sustaining the 3


### integrity of our electric grid upon which our 4


### region’s and the nation’s economy depends. 5


### Our region has shown time and time again 6


### that we have the capacity to anticipate and act 7


### in ways to get in front of pre dicted future 8


### economic changes, to mitigate risks, and to be at 9


### the leading edge of advantage through innovation. 10


### We urge progress in advancing this plan, as well 11


### as other measures, to provide a road map for 12


### reducing carbon pollution in order to support 13



### s ustainable prosperity in the US and to catalyze 14


### strong global actions to curb the costly and 15


### harmful effects of global warming and climate 16


### disruption. 17



### States , and increasingly our regions, are 18



### called upon to lead the way to a cleaner, 19



### healthier, and commu nity

- sustaining energy 20


### economy. The southwestern Pennsylvania region 21


### stands to be a key partner in modeling the public 22

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### and the private sector collaboration that’s going 1


### to be required to craft implementation plans to 2



### advance these goals. 3



### The Clean Pow er Plan indeed is a long

4


### overdue federal framework for accelerating 5



### innovation
, and we will thrive in meeting the 6



### challenge. Thank you very much. 7



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both. 8


### And once again, I want to really think 9



### all of the speakers for be ing here today, for 10


### sharing your thoughts, your knowledge, your 11


### feelings with us. This is very important for us
, 12


### and it’s really helping us in putting together a 13



### good rule. 14


### We’re going to take a five

- minute break 15


### just to give the court reporter and the p anel a 16



### chance to stretch and all of you . S ome of you 17


### have been sitting for a couple hours now. We’ll 18



### reconvene in five minutes. 19



### Just to let you know who’s on deck, I 20



### have cards for Patrick Grenter, Francis R e co, Jim 21


### Egged, and Mike Kamandulis. So th ose are the 22

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### next four up on deck. But five

- minute break and 1


### then we’ll get going. 2

3



### (Whereupon a recess was taken from 3:18 4



### p.m. to 3:25 p.m.) 5

6



### MR. KOERBER: It felt good to stand up 7


### after sitting for a couple hours, so I really do 8


### appreciate it. 9



### I'd l ike to call our next two speakers, 10



### Patrick Grenter and Francis Reco

. 11



### Mr. Grenter? 12


### MR. GRENTER: Thank you. My name is 13


### Patrick Grenter. I'm an attorney and the 14



### executive director of the Center for Coalfield 15



### Justice. 16


### I'd like to thank you all for the 17


### opportunity to present comment on the US EPA's 18


### Clean Power Plan for Existing Power Plants and 19



### Carbon Pollution Standards for Modified Sources 20



### here today. 21



### The Center for Coalfield Justice is a 22

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### Pennsylvania, Incorporated, not for profit 1


### organization, 184 So uth Main Street in 2


### Washington, PA. We are a membership organization 3


### with a mission to improve policy and regulations 4


### for the oversight of fossil fuel extraction and 5


### use, to education, empower, and organize 6


### coalfield citizens, and to protect, and to 7



### protec t public and environmental health. 8



### We have individual members and we have 9


### just about 2,000 members and supporters, most all 10


### of whom live in the coal fields of Washington and 11


### Greene County, the two most southwestern counties 12


### of Pennsylvania. 13



### We were form ed as a tri

- state citizens 14


### mining network in 1994, the coalition of 15


### grassroots groups and individuals concerned about 16


### the effects of long wall coal mining on their 17


### coal mining on their communities. We changed our 18



### name in 2007 to the Center for Coalfield J ustice 19


### and expanded our work to cover fossil fuel 20


### extraction generally, which is increasingly 21


### covered being an incredible rate of hydraulic 22

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### fracturing that's also occurring in these 1



### communities. 2


### The Center for Coalfield Justice supports 3



### the Clean Power P lan to help clean up our 4


### environment and keep our children healthy. In 5



### fact, the EPA should strengthen the standard by 6


### prioritizing renewable energy and energy 7


### efficiency standards . (1:57) 8



### Communities like those in southwestern 9


### Pennsylvania coal field s should also have a 10


### significant role to play in this process now and 11


### in the future because they are the ones that 12


### stand to be among the most impacted through this 13



### transition to a coal

- free generation. 14


### Long wall coal mining has devastated 15


### Washington and Greene Counties for decades, and 16


### development continues at a torrid pace to this 17


### day. Greene County is the single largest coal 18


### producing county in the United States. It is 19


### home to the largest underground coal mine in 20



### North America. Entire communities an d ecosystems 21



### are sacrificed wholesale for the benefit of 22

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### international and energy conglomerates looking to 1



### sell their coal for both international and 2



### domestic use in coal

- fired power plants. 3


### The entire industry has thrived for years 4



### with a business mode l contingent on the 5


### internalization of profit and the externalization 6



### of harm. 7



### Duke Lake and Horizon Station State Park 8


### in Greene County has been dry for nine years 9


### because of subsidence damage from the Bailey 10


### Mine. A recent mine expansion from that sam e 11


### mine allows for the destruction of up to four 12



### streams and a reduction of flow of 10 others. 13


### A recent coal refuse disposal area from that mine 14



### sought to bury 57,000 feet of streams under tons 15



### of toxic coal waste. 16


### The clean power plant is one very 17



### small step on the path towards achieving true 18


### accountability for the destruction that coal 19


### causes in the communities in which it operates. 20


### However, we must not relent in our pursuit of 21


### true environmental justice. 22

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### All too few of us can count on any 1


### meaningfu l enforcement or regulation from our 2


### state agencies. Each moment spent waiting is a 3


### new opportunity for a child to get sick. 4


### I hope the EPA takes the time to listen 5


### to the thousands here today supporting meaningful 6


### environmental protection and continue a ll efforts 7


### to protect human health and the environment. 8



### Thank you. 9


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 10



### Mr. Reco? 11



### MR. RE CO : Yes. Good afternoon and 12


### welcome to Pittsburg. 13



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 14


### MR. RECO: My name is Francis Reco, and I 15



### live at 11 87 Arrow W ood Drive in Mount Lebanon, 16


### Pennsylvania. 17



### I am here today to express my full 18


### support for the proposed EPA admission guidelines 19



### that enable states to reduce greenhouse gas 20


### emissions from existing fossil fuel power and 21


### electric generating plant s. 22

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### The electric power sector amounts for 32 1


### percent of US total greenhouse gas emissions. 2


### These emissions have increased by 11 percent 3


### since 1990 as our electricity demands have grown 4



### and fossil fuels have remained the dominant 5


### source of generation. 6



### A s a resident of Pennsylvania, I was 7


### shocked to find out the state of Pennsylvania 8



### creates more heat

- trapping emissions than all but 9



### two other states, Texas and California, each of 10


### which has much larger populations. 11


### I do not represent any specific 12


### organiza tion but represent like

- minded 13



### individuals who want to make a difference in this 14


### country by using alternative energies to reduce 15


### our own carbon footprints. 16



### In my house, I use a rechargeable 17


### lawnmower, drive an electric hybrid car, and have 18


### nine solar pane ls on our roof creating what we 19


### like to call a hybrid house. Even though 20


### Pittsburgh is one of the cloudiest cities in the 21


### United States, my solar installation has produced 22

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### over 10 million watts of electricity since June 1


### of 2010 resulting in a 40 percent r eduction in 2


### the need for power from fossil fuel

- fired power 3



### plants. 4


### There is no doubt in my mind that this

-- 5



### there is substantial scientific evidence that 6


### carbon pollution causes climate change resulting 7


### in more frequent forest fires, floods, and 8



### extre me weather events like heat waves, droughts, 9


### and heavy rainfall. A day does not go by without 10


### news of some catastrophic weather event somewhere 11



### in the world. 12


### I have personally seen the destruction 13



### one of these extreme storms can cause when our 14



### son was di splaced from his home in New York City 15


### due to extreme flooding from Hurricane Sandy. 16


### Not only will unchecked carbon 17


### pollution lead to long

- lasting changes in 18


### climate, it also pose public health risks such as 19


### worsening allergies and asthma. Any immedia te 20



### action needs to be taken. Our children and 21


### future generations deserve a safe and stable an 22

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### environment as we can possibly provide for them. 1



### For this reason, I feel we have a moral 2


### obligation to reduce our country's greenhouse gas 3



### emissions and set an example for the world to 4



### follow. It is essential that individual citizens 5


### continue to do their part to reduce carbon 6


### pollution by becoming energy efficient using 7


### alternative energies, creating hybrid houses, and 8


### driving hybrid cars. 9



### But individual acti on is not enough. 10


### Therefore, I applaud President Obama for 11


### announcing his series of executive actions to 12


### combat climate change by reducing carbon 13


### pollution in this country. As part of the 14


### climate action plan, the EPA has worked to 15


### complete carbon polluti on standards for power

-- 16



### for the power sector. I fully support the use of 17



### the EPA Guidelines in their entirety. 18



### We cannot wait. Action must be taken 19


### now. And one thing I'd to say, just think if 20


### everybody just added one solar panel to their 21



### house what a cleaner world this would be. And 22

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### thank you again for letting me speak at this. 1


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thank you 2


### for both being here today. 3



### MR. RECO: Thank you. 4



### MR. KOERBER: Next I'd like to call Jim 5


### Egged and Mike Kamandulis. 6



### MR. EGGED: My talk will be the 7


### Reader's Digest version. 8



### MR. KOERBER: Great. Thank you. We look 9


### forward to reading the full version. 10


### MR. EGGED: Thanks. My name is Jim 11



### Egged, E

- g

- g

- e

- d, and I want to thank you very 12


### much for this opportunity. 13



### I'm a reti red firefighter, and I was 14


### placed on the County Mutual Aid Hazardous Instant 15


### Response Team during my tenure on the department. 16


### My retirement has been a continuation of my 17


### dedication to public safety through environmental 18



### advocacy. 19



### Without a habitable e nvironment, the 20


### public safety cannot be assured. Gridlock in 21


### Washington has been an effort to undermine the 22

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### legitimacy of this presidency. Those setting up 1


### deliberate road blocks to the progress, both 2


### environmentally and economically, care not for 3



### the li fe of this country. Long

- term benefits are 4



### forsaken for short

- term gains. It is obvious to 5



### the most casual observers where the obstruction 6


### to a functional government lies. This ship is 7


### seriously listing to the starboard. 8



### President Obama has made ever y effort to 9


### put this country on a true course towards the 10


### seas of prosperity and sustainability. Oh 11


### captain, my captain, our fearful trip is not yet 12


### done. Your presidency has not fallen cold and 13


### dead. My captain does answer. 14



### The Clean Power Plan can help clean up 15


### our air and maintain a healthy environment for 16


### our children and their children only the EPA 17


### needs to strengthen the standards by prioritizing 18



### renewable energy. 19


### Climate scientists tell that developed 20



### countries like the United States must r educe 21


### emissions 25 to 40 percent below the 1990 levels 22

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### by 2020 to avoid tipping the scales further 1


### toward a climate catastrophe. 2



### CO 2 

### is not the only climate carbon 3



### molecule

-- climate change molecule. Methane 4



### presents problems as well. The IPCC recogn izes 5


### that methane is 86 times more potent than CO 2 

### over 6



### a 20

- year time frame at trapping heat. 7


### The seas turn so dark that you know it's 8


### time we see the sign and it's me that is saying 9


### how long, how long to the point of know return; 10


### and it's spelled k

- n

- o

- w because that's how the 11


### song goes. You guys know that? Right. Okay. 12


### I'm not a doomsday prognosticator. You 13



### know, we do have to prepare for the worst and 14


### intercede to prevent disaster. We know that 15


### doing nothing will lead to disaster. History has 16



### borne that out. 17


### As a firefighter, I can tell you that 18


### safety measures are not from a proactive effort. 19


### School drills, for example, didn't come about 20



### until 92 children and three nuns lost their lives 21


### in the Our Lady of Angels fire in 1958. 22

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### See that sign right there? Yet that 1


### didn't come about until 492 people died in the 2


### Coconut Grove fire in Chicago in

-- I mean in 3


### Boston in 1942. Okay. 4


### Now, the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory in 5


### 1911, the fire killed 146 women. Okay. Two 6


### young girls of 14 were al so killed which led to 7



### workplace safety standards and laws. 8


### The Iroquois Theater fire killed 605 9


### people in 1903. This unnecessary loss of life 10



### could have been prevented. My chronology goes 11



### backwards in time to demonstrate that there was 12


### already eviden ce of impending disasters. 13


### We have just had a year of extreme 14


### weather. The most recent episode appears to be a 15


### trend. Do we ignore these installments of 16


### climate change and play them off as merely 17


### anecdotal and not evidentiary? 18



### Let's not wait for dis aster to strike 19


### before we say if we would have or we should have, 20


### but, because if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, 21


### it would be Christmas every day, wouldn't it? 22

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### Now, taking too little action would be a 1


### gamble with the future. My future grandchildren 2



### sho uld enjoy the same beautiful planet that I 3


### have. They should not have to fight for the 4



### environment in order to survive. 5


### This tiny orb that floats about on the 6


### fabric of space time is the only home we know. 7


### There are no lifeboats on this ship. And the 8


### only argument against these changes, these rules 9


### and standards, is it will cost money. 10


### Well, the cost of conducting our business 11



### as usual could prove to be much more dear. Let 12


### us obtain a little insurance for the future, hey? 13


### There's no dollar sign on peace of mind. 14


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 15



### MR. EGGED: Mm

- hmm. 16



### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Kamandulis? 17


### MR. KAMANDULIS: My name is Mike 18



### Kamandulis, K

- a

- m

- a

- n

- d

- u

- l

- i

- s. I live in 19


### Kersey, Pennsylvania, up in Elk County, and I'm a 20



### retired earth science tea ch; and I taught a Penn 21


### State Dubois for a couple years. 22

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### Thank you very, very much for having 1


### these hearings, and thank you very much for this 2


### proposed legislation. It would be wonderful if 3


### it starts to make some serious changes. 4


### These are some things we know. Our 5


### modern civilization is very highly adapted to the 6


### Earth's present climate. The Earth's climate 7


### changes through time naturally. 8


### Today the use of fossil fuels is powering 9


### the global economies and benefitting all of us 10



### and we should be than kful to the men and women 11



### who work in those industries. Yet, there is 12


### growing confidence by many climate scientists 13


### that the increasing levels of carbon dioxide in 14


### the earth's atmosphere caused mainly by burning 15


### fossil fuels poses a potentially very serio us 16


### threat to our planet's climate. And if they're 17


### right, there will be very, very dire 18


### consequences. Indeed, it's already starting to 19



### happen. 20



### Therefore, I believe that it is now time 21


### that we make serious efforts to begin to reduce 22

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### the levels of CO 2 

### in t he atmosphere. And change 1


### the means by which we produce energy. We have 2


### the knowledge to do just that, yet we're lacking 3



### the collective will. 4


### Before the discovery of oil, whales in 5



### the world's oceans were hunted almost to 6



### extinction for their oil. Was that right? How 7


### many whaling jobs were lost when we discovered 8


### petroleum in Titusville? How many more new jobs 9



### were created when we switched to crude? 10


### Well, consider the new jobs involving 11


### wind, solar, geothermal, and the newer types of 12



### nuclear resource s

-- I'm sorry

-- reactors. 13


### Yeah. Did I say nuclear? Yeah. There's a 14



### little book out called Nuclear 2.0, Why a Green 15



### Future Needs Nuclear Power . It's small, easy to 16


### read, very powerful and well written. I'd 17



### recommend it. 18


### I'll be using and quoting f rom the 19


### Ethical and Moral Implications of Climate Change
, 20


### published in 2011. 21


### "The moral and ethical principles we 22

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### adopt to guide our response to the climate crisis 1



### -- yes, we can call it a crisis

-- are extremely 2


### important. How do we want to be remember ed?" 3


### The publishers of that article believe 4


### the three most important ethical and moral 5


### principles are: 6


### Number one, the moral obligation to 7


### prevent suffering and to protect human life. The 8


### most fundamental of our guiding moral and ethical 9


### principles is t hat it is wrong to unjustifiably 10


### cause human suffering or death. 11



### Number two, t he moral and ethical 12


### responsibility to honor principles of justice and 13


### equity. Wealthier nations such as the United 14



### States and others have generated the most of the 15



### emissions that are disrupting the climate. Yet, 16


### at least for the next few years, they will 17


### experience the fewest consequences. The people 18


### who have contributed the least to climate change 19


### will be impacted the most. Is this fair or just? 20



### Number three, the moral ob ligation to 21


### honor and protect the processes that make life 22

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### possible. We have a responsibility to protect 1


### the ecosystems and organisms that provide the air 2



### we breathe, the food we eat, the water we drink, 3



### and the materials that we use to sustain life and 4



### p rosperity, and, of course, the natural beauty 5


### that lifts our spirits. 6


### People must realize that humans are an 7


### integral part of the natural system, the living 8


### system. And it's also morally wrong to use 9


### scientific uncertainty as an excuse to delay or 10



### preven t emissions reductions or preparation for 11


### the consequences of climate change. Even today, 12


### our US military is preparing for climate change. 13


### That's right. 14


### We want jobs. We want energy. We want 15


### the economy to grow. We want to continue to 16


### enjoy our way of life. By the way, I live in a 17


### Township that benefits from a landfill. We have 18


### to think about these things. 19


### Back when I began teaching, my science 20


### department chairman was very fond of telling us 21


### after our meetings, primarily to remind us to do 22

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### a good job and be respectful to everyone, "Just 1


### remember guys, even a bird doesn't poop in its 2


### own nest," except he didn't say poop. Perhaps we 3



### should take Chuck's advice to heart but in a 4


### different context. Thank you. 5


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thanks to 6


### both of you for being here today. 7


### Next I would like to call Jaclyn Clifford 8



### and Thomas Hoffman. 9


### MS. CLIFFORD: Hello. My name is Jaclyn 10



### Clifford. It's J

– a

– c

- l

- y

- n. And I'm a student 11


### at the University of Pittsburgh, School of Law. 12



### I'm also a legal intern for the Center of 13



### Coalfield Justice. 14


### Thank you for the opportunity to comment 15


### on the US EPA's clean power plan for existing 16


### power plants and the carbon pollution standard 17


### for modified resources. The EPA has proposed 18


### clean power plant implementati on as vital both 19


### for the environment and the economy of 20


### Pennsylvania. 21


### The Center for Coalfield Justice supports 22

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### the clean power plan to increase the use of 1


### renewable energy sources. Our nation prides 2


### itself on being innovators and trailblazers. So 3



### why h ave we become so complacent with our energy 4


### standards? Even though coal extraction has 5


### proven time and time again to be an 6


### environmentally and economically destructive 7


### industry, we continue to rely on the status quo. 8



### We now have the chance to start inves ting 9


### in more reliable and safer renewable energy 10


### sources such as wind, solar, and hydro. 11


### Washington and Greene County are of the top 12


### producers of coal in the country. They are among 13


### some of the poorest communities in Pennsylvania. 14


### Most citizens are depen dent upon jobs in the coal 15


### industry to provide for their families. However, 16


### these jobs are dangerous and not sustainable. 17


### These areas, Washington and Greene 18


### County, lack job diversity that would allow for 19


### economic growth. The responsible development of 20



### renewable energy resources supports local 21


### economies, creates jobs, and moves America and 22

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### Pennsylvania toward a cleaner and more reliable 1



### energy future. 2


### Residents of both green and Washington 3


### County have been paying the economic and 4



### environmental costs of the coal industry far too 5


### long. This rule will finally allow Pennsylvania 6


### to loosen the grip of the coal industry and allow 7


### for communities in Washington and Greene County 8


### to diversify their economy and start working 9



### towards a coal

- free generation. 10



### Th ank you for this opportunity. 11



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thanks for 12


### being here. 13



### MS. CLIFFORD: Thank you. 14



### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Hoffman? 15


### MR. HOFFMAN: Yeah. My name is 16



### Tom Hoffman, H

- o

- f

- f

- m

- a

- n. I'm the western 17


### Pennsylvania director for Clean Water Action. 18



### David Brower from the Sierra Club is the 19


### source of my favorite quote these days, "We don't 20


### inherit the planet from our parents. We really 21



### borrow it from our kids." 22

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### And my second favorite is from 1



### Paul Kirkman who wrote in the New York Times 2



### abo ut the Greenland glaciers that are melting 3


### rapidly. He said that, "You can debate whether 4


### or not climate change is real, but after seeing 5



### Greenland, all I could think of was that those 6


### same kids we borrow the planet from are going to 7


### be very upset with us pretty soon." 8



### I work for Clean Water Action. We're a 9



### 40

- year

- old national environmental organization. 10


### We have 1,000,000 plus members in 17 states. We 11



### support these proposed rules. The EPA and those 12


### who support the fees proposed rules are in the 13


### right side of history. We need to act now to 14



### control carbon emissions and as a side benefit, 15


### we get cleaner air, new jobs in a sustainable 16


### economy, technology growth, and healthier kids. 17


### We're actively working in Pennsylvania to 18


### require investments in clean energy jobs and 19


### renewable energy sources just as our country has 20


### subsidized the fossil fuel industry since it 21



### began. We take heart from the German example. 22

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### They have recently announced a 50 percent 1


### renewable mark, and far from hurting their 2



### economy, that wise choice of investment in their 3



### kids ' future has made them a European economic 4


### powerhouse. They practically own most of the 5


### continent now, and they play good soccer. 6



### So we should do the same and the proposed 7


### clean power plant is a good start. Thank yo u very 8


### much for your time. 9



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both 10


### for being here today. 11


### MR. HOFFMAN: Do you need to copies of 12



### this? 13



### MR. KOERBER: If you have extras, 14


### we'd appreciate keeping a copy. 15



### Next I'd like to call Dan Goldstein and 16



### Nick B ates. 17



### DR. GOLDSTEIN: It's doctor, but that's 18



### okay. 19


### MR. KOERBER: Doctor. Oh, I misread. My 20



### mistake. Dr. Goldstein? 21


### DR. GOLDSTEIN: Thank you. My name is 22

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### Don Goldstein. That's G

- o

- l

- d

- s

- t

- e

- i

- n. And 1


### I'm from the Department of Economics at Allegha ny 2



### College. 3


### First, let me thank the EPA for proposing 4


### this Clean Power Plan, organizing these sessions 5


### and giving me the opportunity to comment. 6


### I teach corporate finance and 7


### environmental management at Alleghany, which is 8



### about 90 miles north of here. During my 24 years 9


### at Alleghany, I've also worked with many local 10


### companies around environmental management in a 11


### variety of capacities. 12


### My research examines lower carbon energy 13


### and transportation technologies including their 14


### potential roles in the econo mic future of our 15


### region. 16


### Everything that I've seen tells me that 17


### the proposed plan will move us in the right 18


### direction, especially to the extent that it's 19


### boost toward renewables in our energy mix is 20


### maintained and even strengthened. 21



### That is where I wil l focus my comments 22

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### while I do welcome the many benefits the plan 1



### will create for human health and the environment. 2



### Innovation and investment in new 3


### technologies require clear signposts signaling 4



### firms that such investments will be consistent 5



### with where others in the economy at large are 6


### heading. Sometimes market signals alone are 7


### adequate and sometimes this requires a boost from 8


### government action, especially for major systemic 9



### changes. 10


### The move toward lower carbon energy is 11


### that kind of technology tra nsition. My research 12


### suggests that northwestern PA has regional assets 13


### that could be leveraged as part of this shift. 14


### For example, there is sufficient hardwood forest 15


### acreage within 75 miles of Erie to support at 16


### least a million tons of pelletized wood a nnually 17


### for biomass energy, sustainably managed from 18


### waste cuttings and pulpwood. 19


### But pellet mill investors need to know 20


### they'll be able to get their output shipped 21


### economically and transportation facilities 22

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### investors need to know there will be ongoing 1



### de mand for the product. 2



### In addition, the southern shores of Lake 3


### Erie have a commercially viable wind resource, 4


### estimated offshore at 18 miles per hour at 90 5


### meters and onshore at 15 miles per hour at 80 6


### meters high, but developers await signals that 7



### state policy will support wind power demand and a 8



### workable regulatory framework. 9


### These are only the direct potential 10


### opportunities in low carbon energy. Actualizing 11


### them would also create indirect and mutually 12


### supporting ones. The Erie/Meadville region has a 13


### world class cluster of several hundred precision 14


### machining companies with the capacity to become 15


### major suppliers for renewable energy equipment 16


### and infrastructure. Upgrading port and 17


### intermodal facilities to support biomass and 18



### lakeshore wind, would enco urage reinvigoration of 19


### the region's historical strengths as freight 20


### transportation nexus, and expansion in both 21


### energy technologies, supply chain and intermodal 22

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### shipping capabilities, would make the region more 1


### competitive in the ongoing shift toward natu ral 2


### gas as a lower carbon fossil fuel source. 3


### Such projections are to some extent 4


### speculative, but we can confidently predict that 5


### pragmatic, flexible federal regulatory choices 6


### can start a process in which a combination of 7


### state policy and market forces would allow the 8


### region's companies to pursue the opportunities in 9


### low carbon technologies as they perceive them, in 10


### the process generating not only power but also 11


### jobs, income, and economic development. 12


### The clean power plan is well designed to 13



### stimulate such a process. With its signposts in 14


### place, private sector innovation and investment 15


### can move us faster and farther along in this 16


### critical technology transition than would occur 17


### without the plan. 18


### For the companies and workers in 19



### northwestern PA, fundame ntally, this is about 20


### adaptation to the national and global economies 21


### as they evolve in a world of climate change. 22

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### Like politics, at the end of the day all 1


### climate adaptation is local. The local politics 2


### in northwestern PA have not in general been 3



### frie ndly to the administration's climate and 4


### energy agendas, but this proposed EPA plan can 5


### over time contribute to reframing climate 6


### adaptation in terms of economic opportunity. 7


### This could ultimately be one of its most 8


### important co

- benefits. 9



### Thank you. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 11



### Mr. Bates? 12


### MR. BATES: My name is Nick Bates. 13



### N

- i

- c

- k, B

- a

- t

- e

- s. 14


### And my testimony was written and prepared 15


### by Donald A. Brown. He's the scholar in 16


### residence and professor of sustainability, 17


### ethics, and law at Wagner U niversity School of 18


### Law in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. He was unable 19


### to be with us today and that's why I'll be 20


### reading his testimony. 21


### And before I begin, I want to say that as 22

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### a person of faith, I'm concerned that it's too 1



### easy to create an " us and them " mentality in 2



### these conversations where environmentalists and 3


### people concerned about the environment verse coal 4


### miners and those who have legitimate economical 5



### claims. 6



### And I believe that is a solution that we 7


### can have both good jobs and help transition t he 8


### economics in the region that has been overly 9


### reliant on coal for too long, and that we can all 10


### come together and really move America and our 11



### world forward. 12


### So here's his testimony. 13


### "Thank you for taking comments on the 14


### proposed regulations under the C lean Air Act 15


### which when adapted will constitute a long overdue 16


### first step for the United States in reducing 17


### enormous threat of climate change. This 18


### testimony is in strong support of the proposed 19


### regulations, yet, with strong reservations that 20



### the proposed regulations by themselves are 21


### woefully inadequate for putting the United States 22

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### on an emissions reductions path congruent with 1


### its ethical and moral obligations to the rest of 2



### the world. 3


### There is scattered recognition in the US 4


### that climate change is a m oral and ethical 5


### problem but little attention to the practical 6


### implications for policy entailed by the ethical 7


### dimensions of climate change. Climate change 8



### must be understood to be a civilization 9


### challenging ethical and moral issue because of 10


### several uniq ue facts about climate change which 11


### require policymakers to see the problem as a 12



### moral issue at its core, a conclusion which has 13


### profound significance for policy. 14


### These facts include that, one, high 15


### emitting nations and individuals are putting 16



### hundreds of millions of poor people at great risk 17


### who have done comparatively little to cause 18


### climate change. 19



### Two, the harms to these nations and 20


### people most at risk are not mere inconveniences 21


### but existential threats to people and the 22

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### ecological systems on which life depends. 1



### Three, those most vulnerable to climate 2


### change can do little to protect themselves. 3


### Their only hope is that high emitting countries 4


### and people will see that they have not only 5


### economic interest, but deep ethical duties to 6



### others. 7



### Fou r, the world is running out of time to 8


### limit warming to the two degree Celsius a warming 9


### limit that must be respected to prevent 10


### catastrophic climate change. 11



### And, five, current elevated GHT 12


### atmospheric concentrations have been caused much 13



### more by some cou ntries than others. The US by 14


### far has the highest amount of historical 15


### greenhouse gas emissions and are near the top of 16


### per capita emissions. 17


### The controversy unfolding in the US over 18


### the proposed EPA regulation is utterly ignoring 19



### the fact that the Unite d States has ethical 20



### duties to the rest of the world. In fact, even 21


### the EPA has been justifying this regulation on 22

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### the basis of benefits to the US alone, an 1


### approach which ignores the US's ethical 2


### obligations to others and invites opposition on 3



### the basis of US economic interest alone which 4


### ignores our ethical responsibilities. 5



### In addition, the Obama administration's 6



### current commitment under the United Nations 7


### framework convention on climate change of 17 8


### percent below the 2005 levels by 2020 is far 9



### short o f the US ethical obligations to the rest 10


### of the world. Any US commitment to reduce 11


### greenhouse gas emissions is implicitly a position 12



### of two issues which are at their core ethical and 13


### justice issues. 14


### The first issue is the atmospheric 15



### greenhouse gas conce ntration that the US 16



### commitment is implicitly seeking to achieve by 17


### its greenhouse gas reductions. The atmospheric 18


### stabilization goal that the US commitment seeks 19



### to achieve is an ethical and moral issue because 20


### the atmosphere concentration level will det ermine 21


### the extent to which the US is willing to harm 22

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### hundreds of millions of people around the world. 1



### Last November the IPCC concluded that 2


### there is only 270 gigatons of carbon left for the 3


### entire world to emit to give the international 4


### community 66 perc ent chance of limiting warming 5



### to non

- catastrophic levels. The Obama 6



### administration must set the emissions reduction 7


### target that would be no greater than the US fair 8


### share of the carbon emissions budget of the 270 9


### gigatons or less that is now understood t o be a 10


### constrain on the world to prevent catastrophic 11


### climate change. 12



### So in conclusion for these reasons, we 13



### call on the Obama administration to continue to 14


### support the climate rules and to take even 15


### further steps in reducing carbon emissions." 16



### MR. KOERB ER: Thank you. Thank you, sir. 17



### Thanks to both of you. 18



### Next I'd like to call Russ Lorenz and 19



### Russell Speerschneider

. 20



### Mr. Lorince? 21



### MR. LORINCE: It's Russ Lorince. The 22

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### last name is L

- o

- r

- i

- n

- c

- e. 1



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 2



### MR. LORINCE: Good a fternoon. Thank you 3


### for this opportunity. I'm Russ Lorince. 4


### I'm vice president of external affairs 5


### for Arch Coal and its eastern operations. Arch 6


### is one of the world's largest coal producers. 7


### Last year we mined 131 million tons which is 8



### about 14 per cent of the US total. That occurred 9



### in 22 active mines in seven states in all of the 10


### nation's coal regions. 11



### Power generators transform abundant 12



### reliable and affordable coal into a low cost 13


### stable form of electricity on which the US 14


### economy was built. O bviously, we have concerns 15


### that that will be threatened by the EPA proposal. 16


### While all US power plants responsible for 17


### only 4 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions 18


### and EPA's proposal will reduce those emissions by 19



### less than one percent, the Agency's conservative 20


### projections show costs of $4.2 to $8.8 billion 21


### per year. EPA estimates that its proposal will 22

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### increase electricity prices between six and seven 1


### percent nationally. That sounds reasonable on 2



### the whole, but the fact of the matter is there 3



### wil l substantially higher increases in individual 4



### states. And these increases will fall 5


### disproportionately on the people who can least 6


### afford to bear them. And that is our working 7



### class and our lower income Americans; as we all 8


### know historically, that has b een the case. These 9


### families are more likely to have more children, 10


### spend more time at home, have less well

- insulated 11


### homes, and also have lower efficiency appliances. 12


### So the increases will also place an 13



### immense burden on US businesses that hire these 14



### A mericans, businesses that depend on affordable 15


### energy to provide a critical operating advantage 16


### in a competitive marketplace. Power supply in 17


### the US is reliable because of adequate, non

18


### intermittent base load generating capacity 19



### largely fueled by coal. 20



### EPA proposes at the expense of coal for 21


### our generation to increase the share of 22

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### electricity generated from natural gas, which has 1


### a variety of alternative markets outside the 2


### power generation sector. Natural gas is 3


### delivered to power plants via pipeline systems in 4


### a just

- in

- time basis, and as witnessed during 5


### this past severe winter, delivery on particularly 6


### cold days can be constrained. So there are 7


### sincere concerns. I think the dramatic move away 8


### from coal will threaten the reliability of the 9



### electri c power system. 10


### It's worthwhile to closely scrutinize 11


### what EPA interprets as constituting a best system 12



### of emission reduction, B SER. Arch believes its 13


### Section 111(d) provides EPA with only the narrow 14


### authority to set emission standards based solely 15



### on em ission reductions that can be achieved 16


### inside the fence line. As such, you only the CO 2 17


### emission reductions resulting from actions taken 18


### under building block one may lawfully be 19


### recognized. 20


### Building blocks two through four as 21



### proposed by the Agency are o utside defense line, 22

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### and the Agency does not have the expansive 1


### statutory authority to recognize them as B SER. 2


### Even if permissible, is it feasible for 3


### the states to meet the required emissions 4


### reductions? Under building block one, EPA posits 5


### that a six p ercent improvement in heat rate is 6


### possible by adopting operating and maintenance 7


### best practices and from equipment upgrades. 8



### EPA presumes that plan operators do not 9


### already run and maintain their facilities by best 10


### practices to minimize the unit costs. And if 11


### they're already doing so it certainly cancels 12


### projected heat rate improvement. Regarding 13


### equipment upgrades, the new source review process 14


### makes equipment upgrades a risky and potentially 15


### litigious process. 16



### Given these reasons, outside the fen ce 17


### line actions are detailed under building blocks 18



### two through four and necessary for states to 19


### comply with the proposal, and each of those 20


### building blocks, however, is built on very 21


### questionable assumptions. 22

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### For example, building block two, 1



### increased utilization of combined cycle natural 2


### gas fire and power plants presupposes that 3


### pipeline infrastructure is adequate or it can be 4


### built to enable plants to operate at 70 percent 5


### capacity factors. 6


### Building block three assumes that no 7



### units in the entire fl eet of nuclear plants will 8


### retire regardless of market conditions. As for 9


### renewables, EPA assumes their rapid growth 10


### despite their intermittency making it 11


### progressively hard to balance load and run base 12


### load plants effectively. 13


### Finally for building bloc k four, demand 14


### side energy efficiency, EPA assumes that all 15


### states implement the necessary policies to 16


### achieve an annualized energy savings rate of 1.5 17


### percent and given the economic growth in the past 18



### decade, it remains to be seen whether states will 19



### want to continue to embrace policies that inhibit 20


### the growth of their economies. 21



### In summary, EPA's proposal has no 22

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### effective impact on reducing greenhouse gas 1


### emissions, imposes high electricity cost on US 2


### households and industry, threatens the 3


### reliability o f the grid, and is neither 4


### permissible under existing law nor technically 5


### feasible. For these reasons, Arch respectfully 6


### requests that the Agency withdraw its proposed 7



### plan. 8


### Thank you for your time and attention. 9


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thank y ou 10


### for being with us today. 11



### Mr. Speerschneider ? 12



### MR. SPEERSCHNEIDER : Thank you very much. 13


### Appreciate the opportunity to speak. My name is 14


### Michael Speerschneider, S

- p

- e

- e

- r

- s

- c

- h

- n

- e

- d

- e

15


### r. I am chief permitting and public policy 16



### officer at EverPow er Wind Holdings. 17


### EverPower is a developer, owner, and 18


### operator of utility

- scale wind energy projects. 19


### We're headquartered right here in Pittsburgh. We 20


### currently have seven projects across the United 21


### States including four here in Pennsylvania. And 22

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### we employ 75 people between our headquarters and 1


### the operating plants here in Pennsylvania. 2



### And we are

-- we fully support the EPA's 3



### Clean Power Plan and proposed rule, and we 4


### encourage the administration to move forward in 5


### this important policy. 6



### In par ticular, we believe the Clean Power 7


### Plan recognizes the value of renewable energy and 8


### what it will provide as we move towards a more 9


### sustainable energy future. 10


### Among other things, as part of the 11


### building block three, where renewable energy is 12



### included as a compliance tool, the EPA has 13


### incorporated the potential for renewal energy 14


### when setting the state carbon emissions targets. 15


### It has designated renewables as a compliance 16


### option for states to use to meet those targets, 17


### and it allows existing renewable portfolios 18


### standards states have implemented outside of the 19


### plan to be used as a compliance option, which is 20


### a very important driver for our industry. 21


### While there are clearly technical and 22

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### political challenges with implementing the plan, 1



### EverPower believe s that perhaps the most 2


### important thing that the Clean Power Plan does is 3


### achieve a way to recognize the economic and 4


### societal values of renewables and wind energy. 5


### The investments in the grid and 6


### generation and transmission that will be 7



### necessary under t he plan certainly will require a 8


### change to our sort of traditional views on 9


### energy. And thought the short term pain may be 10


### not nearly as disruptive as some of

-- as some 11


### may claim. 12


### For example, the current fleet of wind 13


### turbines in the US right now reduc es emissions 14


### already by 127 million tons. That's like the 15


### equivalent of taking 20 million cars off the road 16


### each year. The wind energy right now supports 17


### more than 50,000 jobs across the country and 18


### that's actually down substantially from due to 19



### some of the uncertainty in national energy policy 20


### including the production tax credit. 21


### There are 550 manufacturing facilities 22

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### across 44 states that supply the industry in 1


### various ways. Average cost of wind has declined 2


### 43 percent just in the past four years alon e 3


### making it second to just combined cycle natural 4


### gas the lowest cost source of new electric 5


### generation that we have. 6


### And despite being an intermittent 7


### resource, wind energy has proven to be a reliable 8


### source of energy. The wind energy has provided 9



### more than 10 percent of the energy mix in 10


### multiple states across the country, and it has 11


### not led to any reliability concerns throughout 12



### those states. 13


### In addition, wind energy would not result 14


### in widespread increases in retail electric rates. 15



### There have been a number of studies that have 16



### been done that show this. And, in fact, show 17


### that wind energy would have an effect of reducing 18


### electric rates, wholesale electric prices over 19


### time. For example, in August of 2013, the Ohio 20



### Public Utilities Commission conduct ed a study 21


### looking at wholesale prices and the impact that 22

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### their existing wind energy facilities in that 1



### state which are

-- which is a very small amount 2


### at this point

-- has reduced wholesale prices. 3


### In March of 2014, G.E. Energy Consulting 4



### studied the effect if wind and solar integration 5


### into the PJM system, and they found among other 6


### things that there was no insurmountable operating 7



### issue that came about because of wind 8


### integration. And every scenario that they've 9



### studied, the result was lower fuel, a nd O&M cost, 10


### and lower wholesale prices. 11


### And in May 2013, Synapse Energy Economics 12


### released a study that quantified the impacts of 13


### increased renewable energy on the PJM system and 14


### that study showed that the annual benefit to 15



### consumers would be on the orde r of $2.6 billion, 16



### and that's if there was not a mechanism to 17


### capture some of the societal cost of carbon. 18


### So to us, a clear and consistent energy 19


### policy is critical for our business, and equally 20


### critical is that there's a full accounting of the 21



### value o f renewable energy whether that's through 22

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### market prices or regulatory actions such as the 1



### Clean Power Plan. 2


### And we do appreciate the EPA's efforts on 3


### this important topic, and we look forward to the 4


### final rule and to working with the states to deal 5



### with the many issues that will be challenging for 6


### us going forward and achieve that affordable 7



### energy future. Thank you. 8



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you, 9


### both. And let me once again thank all the 10



### speakers and non

- speakers. Your presence today 11


### is import ant to us and very much appreciated. So 12


### thank you all for being here. 13



### Next I'd like to call Russell Zerbo and 14



### Cary Mosley. 15


### MR. ZERBO: I definitely want to thank 16


### you guys. It's a long day a lot of information. 17


### Hello. My name is Russell Zerbo, Z

- e

- r

- b

- o. 18


### I am the advocacy coordinator for the 19



### Clean Air Council. The Clean Air Council is a 20


### Pennsylvania 501(c)(3) dedicated to protecting 21


### the right of everyone to breath e clean air. 22

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### Thank you for the opportunity to speak 1



### today. 2


### The council supports the EPA's decision 3


### to limit carbon dioxide pollution from existing 4


### power plants. Pennsylvanians are already 5


### suffering the impacts of climate change and are 6


### counting on the EPA to implement requirements 7


### that will actually reduce greenhouse gas 8



### emissions. 9


### The state of Pennsylvania has already 10


### showed that it intends to protect existing carbon 11


### emitters to the greatest extent possible. The 12


### council is concerned that the plan Pennsylvania 13


### submits to the EPA will not reduce greenhouse gas 14


### emissions and may, in f act, create more carbon 15



### emissions. 16


### For instance, Pennsylvania has already 17


### suggested that it plans to take advantage of the 18


### EPA's lax waste energy regulations to comply with 19


### the carbon rule. I urge the EPA to reject 20


### selection approach and, in fact, reeval uate the 21


### way it treats carbon dioxide emissions from waste 22

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### to energy power plants. 1


### The EPA proudly states on its energy 2



### recovery from waste web page that no new plants 3


### have been built in the US since 1995. Contrary 4


### to this, the PA Department of Enviro nmental 5


### Protection has just permitted a waste incinerator 6


### in Allentown Pennsylvania, and in its white paper 7


### on how it proposes to meet carbon dioxide limits, 8


### cites waste energy as a chief example of a 9


### project with unique environmental benefits. 10



### There are no true environmental benefits 11


### to burning trash. The EPA made compromises with 12


### the waste burning industry to only count one

13


### third of the significant carbon emissions from 14


### WTE facilities and allowed the Integrated Waste 15


### Services Association to provide indu stry driven 16



### information on the EPA website. 17


### Simply put, encouraging waste burning 18


### will encourage waste and increase carbon dioxide 19



### emissions. 20


### Pennsylvania's white paper also describes 21


### coal waste as essentially carbon neutral, which 22

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### could not be further from the truth. Of the 18 1


### coal waste burners in the country, 14 are in 2


### Pennsylvania. This is a source of carbon 3


### significant in Pennsylvania that the EPA must 4


### consider in developing its 111(d) criteria. 5


### At its most efficiency, coal waste emits 6



### as much carbon dioxide as a conventional coal 7


### power plant and many plants are not operating at 8


### a top efficiency. 9


### Chester, Pennsylvania, the poster 10


### community for environmental injustice is home to 11


### a cluster of emission sources including a waste 12



### incinerator and a c oal waste power plant, opened 13


### in 1992 and 1986 respectively. 14


### It took the state until May 6 of this 15


### year to hold a public hearing where the 16


### Environmental Justice Advisory Board heard the 17



### views of concerned Chester residents. At the 18


### hearing, I pointed out that Pennsylvania's 19


### alternative energy portfolio standard intended to 20


### promote low emission electricity production 21


### created this clean energy coal waste and trash 22

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### incineration. It would be hard for the citizens 1



### of Chester to understand how the EPA has allow ed 2


### the state to comply with carbon dioxide limits by 3


### ignoring the true emissions from waste to energy 4



### and coal waste power plants. 5


### In conclusion, Pennsylvania does not 6


### positively view saving energy. In Pennsylvania, 7


### energy equals jobs. Pennsylvanians ha ve good 8


### options to lower their carbon footprint, options 9



### that would allow

-- that would slow climate 10


### change, create good jobs, and not negatively 11


### impact nearby communities. Pennsylvania refuses 12


### to consider such options. 13


### For example the Uniform Construct ion Code 14


### Review and Advisory Council is tasked with 15


### enforcing standards for the protection of life, 16


### health, property, and environment for the safety 17


### and welfare of the consumer, general public, and 18


### owners and occupants of buildings and structures, 19



### but has refused to update building codes since 20



### 2009. 21


### By simply generating and consuming less 22

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### energy with modern construction codes, 1


### Pennsylvania could easily comply with 32 percent 2



### CO 2 

### reduction from a 2005 baseline. From 2005 to 3


### 2011, Pennsylvania reduced CO 2 

### e missions by 12 4


### percent without the EPA mandate. 5


### A comprehensive construction code that 6


### lowers EPA's energy requirement would spur 7


### innovation and construction and provide good jobs 8



### that value energy consumers. 9


### The state does not see the linkage 10



### between energy consumption and health. I urge 11


### the EPA to require real reductions of energy 12


### generation and consumption in its final carbon 13


### rule for existing power plants. 14


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 15



### Mr. Mosley? 16


### MR. MOSLEY: Good afternoon. My name is 17



### Kh ari Mosley. That's K

- h

- a

- r

- I, M

- o

- s

- l

- e

- y, and 18


### I'm the Pennsylvania regional program manager for 19



### the Blue Green Al f liance, based here in 20


### Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. 21



### Back in 2006, the Blue Green Alliance was 22

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### formed by the United Steel Workers and the Sier ra 1


### Club. Now we are a partnership of some of 2


### America's largest unions and most influential 3


### environmental organizations. Nationwide we unite 4


### nearly 16 million members and supporters to build 5


### a cleaner, fairer, and more competitive American 6



### economy. 7



### The C lean Power Plan, which will put the 8


### first ever limits on carbon pollution from 9


### existing power plants, is a significant step 10


### forward to tackle the impacts of climate change; 11


### doing this right will ensure cleaner air, 12


### reliable power, and a stable economy wh ere jobs 13



### are both created and protected. 14


### America's workers are key to getting this 15


### right. We will responsibly reduce our nation's 16


### carbon pollution, upgrade our infrastructure, and 17


### expand clean energy and energy efficient 18


### technologies. 19


### Pennsylvania is de aling with more extreme 20


### weather events, and this plan will help address 21


### that in the long term for generations to come. 22

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### The facts about how climate change is already 1


### affecting us today speak for themselves. Extreme 2


### temperature swings related to climate ch ange are 3


### causing more potholes on roads. Higher than 4


### average rainfall is testing the limits of dams 5


### and levees, and stronger and stronger winds are 6


### leaving our electric grid vulnerable to more 7


### power outages than I've ever seen in my lifetime. 8



### In fact, th e number of weather related 9



### blackouts has doubled since 2003. This is due to 10


### the fact that Pennsylvania has had 13 major 11


### disaster declarations in just 10 years from 12


### severe storms including hurricanes Irene, Sandy 13


### and tropical storm Lee. These disasters h ave 14



### resulted in the need for hundreds of millions of 15


### public money to support recovery and rebuilding 16



### efforts. 17



### We must choose to take full advantage of 18


### all the opportunities presented to us through the 19


### Clean Power Plan such as building on the success 20



### of re newable portfolio standard that is making 21


### strides towards generating 18 percent of the 22

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### state's electricity and renewable energy sources 1



### by 2021. 2


### While progress on the Lake Erie wind 3


### project is taking longer than any of us would 4


### like, we are optimistic tha t the leadership of 5


### the Lake Erie Energy Development Corporation and 6


### other stakeholders offshore wind will grow and 7


### become part of our state's energy portfolio. 8


### Whether it be through expanding renewable 9


### energy or other methods, it's important to 10


### emphasiz e that our state and local lawmakers must 11


### engage Pennsylvanians, especially workers who may 12


### be impacted, as they draft our state's blueprint 13



### to meet the clean power standards. 14


### We are committed to making sure workers 15


### impacted by the decisions and the compa nies have 16


### a say in the future, as many of these decisions 17



### aren't about EPA rules but are instead about the 18


### bottom line. That's why we support efforts to 19


### support economic development in cities and 20


### regions being impacted. We will not leave 21



### workers behind a s we transition to a cleaner and 22

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### more efficient energy. 1


### We are making sure workers in 2


### Pennsylvania have their voice heard. Doing this 3


### the right way will protect existing jobs while 4


### reducing emissions growing new family sustaining 5


### jobs and clean energy an d energy efficiency as 6


### well as encouraging investment to jumpstart new 7


### technologies. 8



### We can choose to create and maintain 9


### middle class jobs, revitalize our nation's 10


### manufacturing sector, and address climate change, 11


### but only if we make sure the voices of w orking 12



### people are front and center as the clear power 13



### plan moves forward. Thank you. 14


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thanks to 15



### both of you. 16



### Next I'd like to call Allison Freeman and 17



### Ray Roberts. 18



### Is Mr. Roberts in the room? 19



### Ms. Freeman? 20



### DR. FREE MAN: Thank you. I appreciate 21


### the chance to speak to the panel and all those in 22

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### attendance. And let me just for a start by 1


### saying that my comments are my own as a 2


### physician, an allergist, a pediatrician, and a 3


### private citizen and do not represent my work place 4


### in any way. 5


### Good afternoon everyone. My name is 6


### Allison Freeman. I'm a physician in asthma, 7


### allergy, and immunology department at West Penn 8



### Alleghany Health System, now known as Alleghany 9



### Health Network. I'm also the former director of 10



### allergy a nd immunology at the Kiesinger Health 11


### System in northeastern PA. 12


### As a physician specializing in asthma, 13


### allergy, and immunology I have treated children 14



### and adults all over the Commonwealth of 15


### Pennsylvania who have experienced a wide array of 16



### health issues in those areas. 17


### In my work with thousands of patients 18


### over the last 25 years, I have seen firsthand 19


### that it can be very challenging for patients and 20


### families to manage. Even when they do all that 21


### they can to minimize exposure to triggers and 22

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### control th eir indoor environments, they cannot 1


### control poor air quality outdoors, which makes 2


### them equally sick if not worse. 3


### That is why I'm here today speaking about 4


### the importance of the clean air protections like 5


### those the EPA has proposed in its Clean Power 6



### Pl an to curb carbon pollution and other emissions 7


### from existing power plants. 8


### This is too important a public health 9


### issue for me to ignore. With every patient with 10


### asthma and their family, we focus on helping them 11


### understand what it means to be living wi th 12



### controlled asthma. We want them to know that 13



### asthma should never keep them from school, from 14


### work, from outdoor play, from exercise when it is 15



### fully controlled. 16


### Millions of people in our country are 17


### only able to achieve this kind of control with 18



### inten sive education, daily medications, and 19


### removal of multiple triggers. But it's very 20


### frustrating for me that despite all of those 21


### efforts on behalf of the patients and families, 22

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### they are at risk for harmful health impacts 1


### including full asthma attacks becau se of the air 2


### quality outdoors that impacts them. 3


### My patients do suffer when air quality 4


### alerts indicate high ozone levels and particulate 5


### pollution at dangerous levels, and we see 6


### emergency room visits spike at those times. 7


### Even healthy people without asthma and 8


### other respiratory diseases are at risk for 9


### adverse health impacts when pollution levels are 10


### high. But children are especially vulnerable, as 11


### their high exposure to those developing lungs. 12


### That's why I stand with the American 13


### Academy of Pedi atrics in welcoming these new EPA 14


### rules that will limit emissions of particulates, 15


### sulfur dioxide, and many other irritants that are 16


### harming all of us but most especially the 17



### children in our area. 18



### The science to me is clear that carbon 19



### dioxide emissions f rom coal fired power plants 20


### play a role in creating increasingly warmer 21


### temperatures which in turn exacerbates the 22

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### formation of ozone pollution. The smog that 1


### ozone pollution is a very powerful respiratory 2


### irritant. Ozone levels correlate directly with 3



### s chool days missed in children with asthma, 4


### including those who take daily controller 5



### medications. 6


### There are many other harmful emissions 7


### from the existing coal

- fired plants and all of 8


### them have detrimental effects on people living 9


### with lung diseases. Add to that the steady 10


### humidity and mold growth in this three river 11


### valley and it's a cocktail for escalating the 12


### problem with poor asthma control we are already 13


### facing. 14


### Our local asthma burden is alarmingly 15


### high. We have is the six counties surrounding us 16


### some of the highest hospitalization rates for 17


### asthma in the Commonwealth. In Pennsylvania a 18


### single hospitalization for asthma costs $23,000. 19


### This is a huge burden on asthma families and on 20


### society in general. We have many families living 21


### and working in Pittsburgh and the surrounding 22

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### area that do not have the option to move to a 1


### region with healthier air quality. 2


### So to me the only option we have is 3


### cutting pollution from existing power plants in a 4


### steady fashion until it can no longer be a 5


### trigger for as thma, COPD, and the other health 6


### consequences that have been mentioned. 7



### I strongly support these new rules for 8


### existing power plants from the EPA and know this 9



### will have immediate health benefits when 10


### finalized and implemented. And I ask every 11



### parent, ev ery family living with lung disease and 12


### all healthcare providers to urge the EPA to set 13


### strong standards for reducing carbon pollution 14


### and protecting public health. Thank you. 15



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you for 16


### being here today. I was just going to say I'm 17



### out of cards. And, excellent, we have a few more 18



### speakers. 19


### Darian Ghorbi and Seth Long. And I have 20


### called Ray Roberts before. He wasn't in the 21


### room. Is Mr. Roberts with us? Okay. When 22

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### you're ready. 1


### MR. GHORBI: Good afternoon. My name is 2



### Darian Ghorbi, D

- a

- r

- i

- a

- n, G

- h

- o

- r

- b

- i. I'm the 3


### director of policy analysis at the American 4


### Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity. 5



### Our members include investor owned 6


### utilities, rural electric cooperatives, coal 7


### producers, railroads, and manufacturers th at are 8


### involved in producing affordable and reliable 9


### electricity from coal. 10


### Thank you for the opportunity to provide 11



### comments today about EPA's proposal. Because of 12


### many serious flaws, ACE urges EPA to withdraw its 13


### proposal. I will highlight a few of these flaws 14


### briefly in the time available. 15



### First, the Clean Air Act does not allow 16


### EPA to regulate greenhouse gas emissions from 17


### existing coal fire power plants under Section 18



### 111(b) because coal

- fired power plants are 19


### already regulated by EPA under Secti on 112 of the 20



### Clean Air Act. 21


### Recently, Attorneys General from nine 22

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### states filed an amicus brief to stop EPA's 1


### proposal for this very reason stating that the 2


### proposal, "Violates the literal terms of the 3



### Clean Air Act." 4



### Even if EPA believes it has the ba sic 5


### authority to regulate, Section 111(d) allows EPA 6


### to set emissions standards based solely on 7



### emissions reductions that can be achieved inside 8


### the fence. However, this proposal requires 9



### substantial reductions outside the fence. 10



### Last year before the p roposal was issued, 11



### Attorneys General from 17 states warned EPA that 12


### the agency does not have the authority to require 13



### these outside the fence emissions reductions. 14


### Second, EPA's proposal will cause 15


### unacceptable economic impacts including higher 16



### energy p rices. ACE sponsored an extensive 17


### analysis of an NRDC proposal which served as a 18


### blueprint for EPA's proposal. Our analysis 19


### projected, among other impacts, double digit 20


### electricity price increases in 29 states and 21


### substantial increases in natural gas pri ces 22

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### nationwide. 1


### Higher energy prices have a 2


### disproportionately greater impact on lower income 3



### and middle income families. Lower income 4


### families are especially vulnerable to higher 5



### energy costs because energy represents a larger 6


### portion their budgets and reduces the amount of 7


### income they can spend on food, housing, 8



### healthcare, and other necessities. 9


### It is also worth noting that states with 10


### carbon constraints are already experiencing 11


### significantly higher electricity rates. Three 12


### months ago, electricity pr ices in California were 13


### 17 percent higher than the national average, and 14


### the New England states, part of the regional 15


### greenhouse gas initiative, had 52 percent higher 16


### electricity prices. 17


### Third, EPA has proposed to substitute its 18


### judgment for that of publi c utility commissions, 19


### utility companies, grid operators, and consumers 20


### across the nation by presuming the appropriate 21


### amounts of electricity from coal, natural gas, 22

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### nuclear, and renewables, as well as presuming how 1


### much electricity consumers should use in each 2


### state. In fact, Administrator McCarthy testified 3



### recently that EPA wants consumers to use less 4


### energy. Although EPA claims states have 5


### flexibility to determine how to meet EPA's goals, 6


### the magnitude of the emission reductions in the 7



### proposal leaves most states little alternative 8


### but to follow EPA's mandates laid out through 9


### building blocks 1 through 4. 10


### Fourth, EPA bases its proposal of flawed 11


### information and assumptions for the four building 12



### blocks that are used to calculate each state's 13



### emissions target. 14


### Finally, despite enormous economic 15


### impacts, the proposal will have no meaningful 16


### effect on global climate change because the 17


### proposal will reduce global greenhouse gas 18


### emissions by less than one percent. 19


### Using EPA's own scientific assessment
, 20


### the emissions reductions from this proposal will 21


### result in just one percent reduction in 22

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### atmospheric C0 2 

### concentrations, a reduction in 1



### global average temperature of two 100ths of a 2


### degree, and a reduction in sea level rise of 3



### 1/100 of an inch, the thick ness of three sheets 4



### of paper. 5


### In conclusion, EPA's proposal has 6


### fundamental flaws that cannot be fixed by simply 7


### making changes to it. Instead, we urge EPA to 8


### withdraw the proposal. 9


### Thank you for the opportunity to provide 10



### comments today. 11



### MR. KOERBER : Thank you, sir. 12


### Let me again see if Ray Roberts or Seth 13


### Long are in the room. And I now am out of cards. 14


### So let me ask if there's anybody else who 15


### would like to say a few remarks before we adjourn 16



### for dinner? 17



### If not, we will close. I have 4:28 as 18



### the time. We will re

- adjourn in this room at 19



### 6:00 p.m. 20


### Thank you all very much for being here 21



### today. 22

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### (Whereupon, a recess was taken from 4:28 1



### p.m. to 5:35 p.m.) 2


### MR. KOERBER: Having no more registered 3


### speakers, we're going to close the hearing Ro om B 4


### and shift all speakers to hearing Room A. We 5



### will re

- adjourn in hearing Room B at 9:00 a.m. 6


### tomorrow morning. This closes tonight's hearing. 7

8


### (Whereupon, the session concluded at 5 :36 9



### p.m.) 10

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