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44 997 PDF 2008

CREATING OPPORTUNITIES FOR SMALL 

BUSINESSES IN AN ECONOMIC RECOVERY 

COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

UNITED STATES 

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS 

SECOND SESSION 

HEARING HELD 

October 28, 2008 

Small Business Committee Document Number 110-116 

Available via the GPO Web site: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/house 


Congress.#13
HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS 

NYDIA M. VELA ́ ZQUEZ, New York, Chairwoman 

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina 

CHARLES GONZALEZ, Texas 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

RAUL GRIJALVA, Arizona 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

HENRY CUELLAR, Texas 

DAN LIPINSKI, Illinois 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania 

BRUCE BRALEY, Iowa 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

BRIAN HIGGINS, New York 

MAZIE HIRONO, Hawaii 

STEVE CHABOT, Ohio, Ranking Member 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland 

SAM GRAVES, Missouri 

TODD AKIN, Missouri 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

LOUIE GOHMERT, Texas 

DAVID DAVIS, Tennessee 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

MICHAEL DAY, Majority Staff Director 

ADAM MINEHARDT, Deputy Staff Director 

TIM SLATTERY, Chief Counsel 

KEVIN FITZPATRICK, Minority Staff Director 

STANDING SUBCOMMITTEES 

Subcommittee on Finance and Tax 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois, Chairwoman 

RAUL GRIJALVA, Arizona 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida, Ranking 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

Subcommittee on Contracting and Technology 

BRUCE BRALEY, IOWA, Chairman 

HENRY CUELLAR, Texas 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

DAVID DAVIS, Tennessee, Ranking 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland 

SAM GRAVES, Missouri 

TODD AKIN, Missouri 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

(II) 

Subcommittee on Regulations, Health Care and Trade 

CHARLES GONZALEZ, Texas, Chairman 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

DAN LIPINSKI, Illinois 

MELISSA BEAN, Illinois 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania 

JOE SESTAK, Pennsylvania 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia, Ranking 

BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania 

STEVE KING, Iowa 

MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma 

VERN BUCHANAN, Florida 

Subcommittee on Rural and Urban Entrepreneurship 

HEATH SHULER, North Carolina, Chairman 

RICK LARSEN, Washington 

MICHAEL MICHAUD, Maine 

GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin 

YVETTE CLARKE, New York 

BRAD ELLSWORTH, Indiana 

HANK JOHNSON, Georgia 

JEFF FORTENBERRY, Nebraska, Ranking 

ROSCOE BARTLETT, Maryland 

MARILYN MUSGRAVE, Colorado 

DAVID DAVIS, Tennessee 

Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversight 

JASON ALTMIRE, PENNSYLVANIA, Chairman 

CHARLES GONZALEZ, Texas 

RAUL GRIJALVA, Arizona 

MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma, Ranking 

LYNN WESTMORELAND, Georgia 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Page 

Vela ́zquez, Hon. Nydia M. ....................................................................................... 1 

Chabot, Hon. Steve .................................................................................................. 2 

WITNESSES 

Wilson, Stephen P., Chairman and CEO, LCNB Corporation, Lebanon, Ohio, 

on behalf of the American Bankers Association ................................................ 4 

Dorfman, Margot S., Women’s Chamber of Commerce ........................................ 5 

Brown, Richard A., President and COO, Krause Corporation, Hutchinson, 

Kansas, on behalf of the Association of Equipment Manufacturers ................ 8 

Bradbury, Jim, President, Grand Rapids Controls CO., LLC, Rockford, Michigan ......................................................................................................................... 9 

FRANKE, Thomas, Executive Vice President and Chairman of the Board, 

Riemeier Lumber, Cincinnati, Ohio .................................................................... 12 

APPENDIX 

PREPARED STATEMENTS: 

Vela ́zquez, Hon. Nydia M. ....................................................................................... 29 

Chabot, Hon. Steve .................................................................................................. 31 

Altmire, Hon. Jason ................................................................................................. 32 

Wilson, Stephen P., Chairman and CEO, LCNB Corporation, Lebanon, Ohio, 

on behalf of the American Bankers Association ................................................ 33 

Dorfman, Margot S., Women’s Chamber of Commerce ........................................ 48 

Brown, Richard A., President and COO, Krause Corporation, Hutchinson, 

Kansas, on behalf of the Association of Equipment Manufacturers ................ 59 

Bradbury, Jim, President, Grand Rapids Controls CO., LLC, Rockford, Michigan ......................................................................................................................... 65

Franke, Thomas, Executive Vice President and Chairman of the Board, 

Riemeier Lumber, Cincinnati, Ohio .................................................................... 69 

STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD: 

Mica, Hon. Daniel, President and CEO, Credit Union National Association ..... 71 

(V) 

(1) 

CREATING OPPORTUNITIES FOR SMALL 

BUSINESSES IN AN ECONOMIC RECOVERY 

Tuesday, September 28, 2008 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS, Washington, DC. 

The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:05 a.m., in Room 

2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Nydia M. Vela ́zquez 

[Chair of the Committee] Presiding. 

Present: Representatives Vela ́zquez, Ellsworth, and Chabot. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. This hearing of the Small Business 

Committee is now called to order. 

This September, in the face of a collapsing housing market and 

a staggering crash on Wall Street, Congress took action. Since 

then, talk of the growing financial crisis has dominated American 

conversation. From Capitol Hill hearing rooms and newspaper editorial boards, to kitchen tables across the country, it seems everyone has a theory about how we got into this mess. Now, of course, 

everyone has an opinion on how we should get out of it. 

Congress is now contemplating the next steps in stemming the 

financial fallout. As the process moves forward, Congress, economic 

models and philosophies are up for consideration. But while it is 

all well and good to discuss the theory of financial crisis, it is far 

more important to hear from the people who are living it. It is far 

more important to understand and act on what Main Street is actually facing. 

In today’s hearing, we will do just that. This morning, we will 

hear from small-business owners who are experiencing the full effects of the current downturn. Like the rest of the Nation, they 

have watched their home values plummet and their 401(k)s evaporate. Now, they are seeing their piece of the American dream suffer 

too. 

This Committee recently compiled a report on the effects of the 

financial crisis on small businesses. The results of the study, which 

we are releasing today, were nothing short of outstanding. As today’s witnesses can attest, small businesses in every corner of the 

country, spanning every segment of the economy, are suffering. The 

reality is that many small firms are struggling to meet the most 

basic obligations, such as making payroll and stocking their 

shelves. 

Not surprisingly, the credit crunch is largely to blame for this, 

and the extent to which that is true is quite startling. Small businesses are facing credit lines that have been drastically reduced 

and, in some cases, revoked all together. The recent Federal ReVerDate Aug 31 2005 14:38 Dec 18, 2008 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERK SB\HEARINGS\TRANSCRIPTS\44997.TXT RUSS
2 

serve’s Senior Loan Officer Survey found that 65 percent of lenders 

are enforcing stricter loan standards. That figure is up a full 58 

percent from 1 year earlier. 

Even small firms that have been managed to make ends meet 

are now abandoning plans for growth, efforts that would otherwise 

create jobs. According to the National Federation of Independent 

Businesses’ monthly index, few small firms have immediate plans 

to expand or hire additional workers. 

During past recessions, the Small Business Administration has 

served as a lifeline for struggling startups. Unfortunately, even 

these programs are on the decline. With SBA funding down 25 percent from 2007, many fledgling companies, the sort that drive innovation and expand industry, may never get off the ground. 

There are a lot of different takes on the current financial crisis 

and even more opinions on how we should dig our way out of it. 

But regardless of your thoughts on the matter, one thing is very 

clear: Small businesses will be the key to economic turnaround. 

Whether it is by expanding the SBA role or providing targeted tax 

relief, entrepreneurs must have access to all the tools they need. 

They have powered this country out of other recessions, and they 

can do it again today. While current circumstances may be different from those in the past, the blueprint for recovery remains 

the same: more jobs and greater economic growth. That is the formula we need, and that is the formula small businesses can provide. 

I would like to thank all of the witnesses in advance for their testimony and for taking time out of your busy schedule and jobs to 

be here with us. And I am pleased that they could join us, and look 

forward to their insight on this critical matter. 

With that, I yield to the ranking member, Mr. Steve Chabot, for 

his opening statement. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you for 

holding this important hearing this morning. 

I want to thank the panel for the testimony that they will be giving us here shortly. 

All of us are aware of the recent turmoil and continuing volatility 

of the financial markets. These problems also touch America’s 

small businesses. Availability of credit is reduced, thereby dampening the capacity of small businesses to create needed jobs. 

Yet it is not just the availability of credit that bothers America’s 

small-business owners. They are also ordinary men and women 

with the same concerns about the value of their homes, the safety 

of their investments, and outlook for the future of their children 

that every American has in these uncertain times. 

Given the current situation in the American economy, policies 

must be developed that help unleash the power, flexibility and vitality of America’s small-business owners. Those policies require reductions in the Federal deficit, lowering taxes, and making health 

care more affordable for our small-business owners. 

Recent actions by the Federal Government have increased its 

borrowing and debt ceiling. The Federal Government then is competing for debt capital with all businesses, including small businesses. I suspect that the witnesses before us today probably cannot compete in the credit markets with the single most credit worVerDate Aug 31 2005 14:38 Dec 18, 2008 Jkt 000000 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 G:\CLERK SB\HEARINGS\TRANSCRIPTS\44997.TXT RUSS
3 

thy borrower the world economy has ever known, the United States 

Government. Thus, to borrow money, small businesses represented 

here—and the 25 million small businesses across the country—will 

have to pay higher interest rates to attract the credit they need to 

operate and expand their businesses. 

We can reduce this hidden and insidious tax on America’s business owners by reducing the Federal deficit and eliminating unnecessary and wasteful spending. In addition to the hidden tax associated with higher interest costs, some of America’s small businesses 

also face the prospect of paying higher taxes under some of the proposals discussed in this year’s presidential campaign. 

Increasing the cost of credit and increasing taxes that small-business owners must pay is a double whammy that these individuals 

and the American economy can ill afford. If we raise the cost of operating their businesses, America’s small-business owners will limit 

hiring and investment. In turn, this would reduce economic growth 

and inhibit recovery from the current turmoil in the economy. 

Any stimulus package that Congress considers must not raise 

taxes on the most productive part of the American economy, our 

small-business owners. In fact, the stimulus package should reduce 

taxes on small businesses so they have more money to spend in the 

manner they best see fit, rather that relying on how government 

bureaucrats think money should flow into the economy. 

There is no doubt that all American businesses have made cutbacks in spending, including providing health care to their workers. 

This has been a longstanding problem for America’s small businesses that has been exacerbated by the recent volatility in the financial markets. Congress must find ways to make the provision 

of health care more affordable to America’s small businesses. One 

such possibility would be to include the enactment of association 

health plans in any stimulus package. Such plans have met with 

bipartisan support, including my own and also that of the chairwoman. 

No one can deny that recent weeks and months are placing a 

strain on the finances of all Americans, including America’s small 

businesses. Increasing the size of government, expanding the deficit and raising taxes simply is the wrong prescription for what ails 

America. Congress must exercise its power wisely by reducing the 

deficit, lowering taxes and improving the ability of small businesses to provide health care to their workers. 

Before closing, I would like to thank the witnesses, particularly 

Tom Franke from my district in Cincinnati, for taking the time out 

of their busy schedules and their hectic times in these up certain 

times in running their businesses to coming here to Washington 

and provide their views to this Committee. I know we all look forward to hearing it. 

And, with that, I yield back the balance of my time, Madam 

Chairman. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chabot. 

It is my pleasure to welcome Mr. Stephen P. Wilson. Mr. Wilson 

is CEO of LCNB Corporation, the holding company for LCNB Bank 

and the banking insurance agency in Lebanon, Ohio. Mr. Wilson 

also serves as chairman and director to both companies. 

4 

He is here to testify on behalf of the American Bankers Association. Founded in 1875, the American Bankers Association represents banks of all sizes on issues of national importance for financial institutions and their customers. 

Welcome, Mr. Wilson. 

STATEMENT OF STEPHEN P. WILSON, CHAIRMAN AND CEO, 

LCNB CORPORATION, LEBANON, OHIO, ON BEHALF OF THE 

AMERICAN BANKERS ASSOCIATION 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you. Madam Chairwoman and members of 

the Committee, again, my name is Steve Wilson. I am from Lebanon, Ohio. I am chairman and CEO of LCNB National Bank. I am 

also pleased to be hear today to represent the American Bankers 

Association. 

Our Nation is certainly facing difficult economic conditions. It 

will clearly take time to work through these problems. We need to 

collectively look for solutions that will ensure a fast recovery. I 

have always believed that we must be realistic about the present 

and hopeful for the future. Hearings like this allow us to discuss 

these issues and work together to restore confidence in our financial system. 

In spite of the difficulties faced by all businesses, including 

banks, I want to assure you that the vast majority of banks continue to be well-capitalized and are opening their doors every day 

to meet the credit and savings needs of their customers. 

We applaud the efforts of Congress to find solutions. Although 

these actions are not ones that were requested by the regulated 

banking industry, we believe that they help unfreeze financial markets and help make credit available to consumers and businesses 

on Main Street. 

The focus on credit to small businesses is particularly important, 

as they are the drivers of new ideas, new employment and new economic growth. For banks like mine, small businesses are our bread 

and butter, and banks throughout our country continue to make 

small business loans. 

However, the demand for small business lending has fallen in recent weeks and is most pronounced in areas of the country hardest 

hit by the housing downturn. For example, in my area of Ohio, 

there are three plant closures that are expected to happen soon. 

That will eliminate 13,000 jobs. This will have a major, major impact on our region. So, ensuring that adequate liquidity and capital 

are available during this time is critical to maintaining the flow of 

credit to small businesses. 

The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act contains some provisions that should free up capital. Community bankers remain concerned about whether the Troubled Asset Relief Program can help 

them and, indeed, perceive that it may even do them harm. Banks 

will consider carefully its structure and its pricing. In addition, 

they believe that using TARP funds to guarantee loans would be 

more effective. This would leave the relationship between the bank 

and their customers intact and put a floor on losses, thus freeing 

up capital to meet new loan demand. 

Moreover, while the root of the current problems has been residential mortgages, the economic disruptions are spreading into the 

5 

commercial real estate and into the small business lending area. 

Thus, TARP funds should be available to purchase or guarantee a 

broader class of loans. 

As TARP is implemented, it is important that regulators recognize that many well-capitalized banks have sufficient liquidity and 

are meeting the credit needs of their communities. These banks 

may not want to participate, and no negative regulatory consequences should arise from that decision. Indeed, all regulatory 

policy should be carefully monitored during this time. We are very 

concerned that a regulatory overreaction could worsen the credit 

crunch. As it did following the 1991 recession, we are hopeful that 

regulatory reason will win the day this time. 

There are several measures that would help banks support loans 

to small businesses. I want to briefly mention just one of those 

from my written statement regarding the SBA lending program. 

Loan volume declined by 30 percent last year in SBA’s flagship 

7(a) loan program. To help reverse this trend, Congress should reduce program fees, make the application process easier and less expensive for both small businesses and the banks, and, on a temporary basis, increase the Federal guarantee provided on SBA 

loans. This would extend the program to many more communities 

across our country and provide more loans to businesses. 

As Congress considers these and other changes, we urge caution 

not to enact policies or regulations that will inadvertently restrict 

the availability of credit that is so vital to our economic recovery. 

We stand ready to work with the Committee, Madam Chairwoman, 

to find effective ways to ensure lending flows to small businesses. 

Thank you very much. 

[The statement of Mr. Wilson is included in the appendix at page 

33.) 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Wilson. 

Our next witness is Ms. Margot Dorfman. Ms. Dorfman is the 

founder and CEO of the U.S. Women’s Chamber of Commerce. Ms. 

Dorfman has an extensive background in business, business ownership, publishing and nonprofit leadership. The U.S. Women’s 

Chamber of Commerce is dedicated to championing opportunities to 

create women’s business growth, career and leadership advancement. 

Welcome, Ms. Dorfman. 

STATEMENT OF MARGOT DORFMAN, CEO, U.S. WOMEN’S 

CHAMBER OF COMMERCE 

Ms. DORFMAN. Thank you. 

Chairwoman Vela ́zquez, Ranking Member Chabot and members 

of the House Small Business Committee, I thank you once again 

for this opportunity to speak on behalf of the millions of small-business owners, their employees and families nationwide who are 

scared, hurting and watching during this economic crisis while 

Washington focuses on corporate executives and big Wall Street 

bailouts instead of getting down to Main Street America, where 

jobs are created, families are fed and mortgages are paid, to get 

credit flowing and raise consumer confidence. 

I have five words for you: big, bold, simple, focused, and now. 

6 

I am hearing every day from small-business owners who are very 

frustrated as they watch while Secretary Paulson and President 

Bush repeat the failures of the past by always looking out for corporate executives. Pouring billions of taxpayer dollars in at the top 

of the system in no way assures that a small-business owner in a 

local community is going to be able to get their line of credit increased during this abrupt economic slowdown. 

Our members are angry that the Federal Government is giving 

taxpayer money to big companies that have been horribly irresponsible, while responsible small businesses are not getting the money 

they need to keep their doors open. As one of my members said 

about her business, ′′I don’t want to lose my company. We have 40 

families that we provide for, and it is a big responsibility that I 

take very seriously.′′ 

On behalf of the millions of American small-business owners, I 

implore you to act now with a big billion-dollar punch that will 

reach directly to the credit needs of small-business owners. We 

have been surveying our members to get a clear look at this issue, 

and they tell us there are three key problems. 

First, consumer and business confidence is falling rapidly and 

creating a sudden contraction in business revenues. 

Second, lenders aren’t lending. Our members report that, in the 

last 90 days, 53 percent are tapping into their own savings, 63 percent have turned to credit cards, and 24 percent have turned to 

family and friends for a loan. And business owners are telling us 

that they are downsizing their employees or independent contractor 

force in alarming numbers. Seventy-one percent of businesses say 

they have downsized. Sixty-nine percent have seen their revenues 

drop. Thirteen percent say if economic conditions do not change, 

they may be forced to close their doors. Only 20 percent have seen 

revenues increase, and these businesses also cannot secure the capital that they need to grow their business. 

Third, the cost of credit, when available, is going up. Thirty-eight 

percent of businesses tell us that their credit card and loan rates 

have gone up in the last 90 days. Twenty-two percent tell us their 

credit limits have been reduced, and 17 percent have had their 

lines of credit halted. 

Among the comments I have received from our small-business 

owners, one in California mentioned that she has two lines of credit. One was cut in half. Another, with Bank of America, was 

$50,000, went to take $10,000 to meet payroll and was turned 

down. She is a customer of 20 years and runs millions of dollars 

through their bank, has three bank accounts, two personal accounts, and a credit score of 750. 

Congress must take legislative action to help restore the flow of 

credit and capital to small-business owners as soon as possible. 

And the Small Business Administration must take immediate administrative action to loosen lending operating procedures. 

You must focus on getting the cooperation of the lending community by keeping the solutions simple to implement by using existing 

systems, lowering the lender and oversight fees, and assuring the 

lending community that any new programs, rules or procedures 

will be in effect for at least 2 years. And use this opportunity to 

7 

re-engage regional banks, so that we are not so reliant on a few 

big banking institutions. 

As you make legislative and administrative changes, don’t forget 

the SBA is not the organization it used to be. Eight years of budget 

cuts and poor executive leadership have gutted the organization. 

The option of direct lending may totally overwhelm the capacity of 

the SBA infrastructure. Even now, we continue to hear that the 

SBA is not adequately supporting the businesses who are struggling, Katrina disaster victims and, again, who have been impacted 

by Gustav and Ike. 

It may be much better to incentivize banks to get back into lending with a specific pool of money made available for only small 

business lending. We have to hold banks accountable for providing 

loans or stop giving banks taxpayer-provided bailouts. And we 

must dramatically increase transparency. 

Additional actions are needed to help business owners get 

through these hard times. Congress should expediently pass another stimulus package, this time to support small businesses. We 

need lower small business taxes and penalties, delayed tax payments, delayed retirement accounts, and extend the amount of the 

period for loans against retirement accounts. Most importantly, you 

must take action to reduce health care costs. 

And finally, specifically speaking of women-owned small businesses, you must remember that our businesses are already at a 

disadvantage, as the SBA regularly lends smaller amounts to our 

firms. I encourage you to make sure that the lending programs 

reach to our marketplace so that we may leverage the resources 

necessary to keep our doors open and drive future growth. For instance, establishing a special 2-year look-alike of the Patriot Express lending program, with loosened administrative rules, hiring 

guarantees and greater lending authority, would quickly and greatly assist many of our members to keep their doors open. 

And you must take action to implement the 8-year-old Women’s 

Federal Procurement Program as Congress had originally intended. 

We find with the recent 2007 goaling report that the Federal Government is still shutting out women-owned firms at an alarming 

rate. Numerous members have told us that receiving fair access to 

these Federal contracts could certainly provide business growth at 

this important time. 

In closing, I have five words for you: big, bold, simple, focused, 

and now. We need you to champion our needs now before it is too 

late. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Ms. Dorfman is included in the appendix at 

page 48.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Ms. Dorfman. 

Our next witness is Mr. Richard A. Brown. Mr. Brown is president and COO of Krause Corporation in Hutchison, Kansas. 

Krause was founded in 1916 and currently employs around 225 

people. 

He is here to testify on behalf of the Association of Equipment 

Manufacturers. The AEM is a trade association that globally represents more than 800 companies that manufacture equipment 

8 

worldwide in the industries of agriculture, construction, forestry, 

mining and utility. 

Welcome. 

STATEMENT OF RICHARD A. BROWN, PRESIDENT AND COO, 

KRAUSE CORPORATION, HUTCHINSON, KANSAS, ON BEHALF 

OF THE ASSOCIATION OF EQUIPMENT MANUFACTURERS 

Mr. BROWN. Thank you very much, Chairwoman Vela ́zquez and 

Ranking Member Chabot, for the opportunity to testify. 

I am Richard Brown, the president and chief operating officer of 

Krause Corporation in Hutchison, Kansas. We were founded in 

1916, and we are a privately held manufacturer and marketer of 

agricultural tillage products. Krause Corporation has survived the 

Great Depression, the Dust Bowl, two world wars, multiple other 

wars that drove material shortages, and numerous financial interruptions, and we intend to be here in the future. 

I also have the privilege of serving on the board of directors of 

the Association of Equipment Manufacturers. AEM is one of the 

oldest trade associations in North America, representing over 800 

companies that manufacture agricultural, construction, forestry, 

mining and utility equipment. 

In addition to serving on the board, I am chairman of AEM’s 

Small Enterprise Committee. If I can borrow the acronym SEC, the 

SEC represents the interests of and provides specific services for 

AEM member companies reporting less than $250 million in annual revenue and that comprises 95 percent of AEM’s membership. 

While Wall Street is on a financial roller coaster, I am here to 

tell you that many small businesses in America are in economic 

free-fall. This financial crisis is also taking a toll on rural America 

and agriculture. In my State of Kansas and all across the country, 

agriculture is the economic foundation for countless small businesses and thousands of Main Streets. 

Modern agriculture requires farmers to have access to credit so 

that they can make the large capital investments needed to plant 

and harvest crops. The tightening of the credit markets is coinciding with the rapid rise in the cost of agricultural inputs. It is 

also important to note that the record commodity prices, which earlier this year garnered intense media attention, have fallen sharply 

in the past few months. As an example, corn alone has fallen 50 

percent below break-even. 

We are now seeing farmers delay their purchase of inputs from 

their normal preseason purchasing patterns, as they are having 

credit trouble. The ripple effects of tightened credit markets, at a 

time of increasing capital requirements for agriculture, will lead to 

economic hardships for rural America. 

I also perceive a growing sense of anger among rural Americans 

about this situation. Generally speaking, they did not buy homes 

they could not afford or run up huge credit card debt, but now are 

forced to deal with the consequences of other people’s excesses and, 

as a result, are losing faith in the system. 

No question, these are hard times, but government can and 

should take steps to ensure the continued success of America’s entrepreneurs. We have four recommendations. 

9 

Number one, extend the bonus depreciation and enhanced expensing provision, which are a part of the stimulus act of 2008. 

This extension will continue to help multiple sectors of the economy 

by enabling companies to purchase the modern tools they need to 

operate. Also, Congress should consider reinstating the 10 percent 

investment tax credit for new equipment purchases as a long-term 

way to encourage the use of modern, more efficient, production 

technology. 

Number two, invest in infrastructure. America is the world’s 

largest importer and exporter, and we depend upon the efficient 

transportation of goods and services. Studies show that we need to 

invest from all sources $140 billion to $255 billion annually to stay 

competitive. In addition, EPA estimates there is an annual shortfall of $23 billion of our investment in water infrastructure. Investing in infrastructure is one of the most productive short- and longterm investments the Government can make. 

Number three, help small businesses export. My company is a 

perfect example of what exporting can mean. We have increased 

our exports 20 to 25 percent and nearly 10 percent to Russia, who 

are aggressively funding food self-sufficiency. This is a catalog of 

Krause Corporation in Russia. That is why it is important for Congress to pass the pending free trade agreements with Colombia, 

Panama and South Korea. We at Krause Corporation have the 

products and technology, but we do need governmental assistance 

to break down trade barriers and improve transparency. 

Number four, please help control rising health care costs. Krause 

Corporation’s annual health care costs represent $857 per machine 

unit we sell, while none of our global competitors have a direct 

comparable expense. Our health care costs at current rates are 

doubling every 4 to 5 years, and represents a greater risk than 

even $100-a-barrel oil. 

Whatever actions are undertaken, I can’t stress enough that we 

must restore the confidence in the marketplace. Times are tough, 

but I am confident we will survive to see better days. With proper 

Government action, these days can be closer than they appear. 

Thanks very much again for the invitation to testify, and I will 

be happy to answer questions. 

[The statement of Mr. Brown is included in the appendix at page 

59.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

Our next witness is Mr. Jim Bradbury. Mr. Bradbury is president of Grand Rapids Controls Company in Rockford, Michigan. 

Grand Rapids Controls has developed from a small domestic cable 

supplier into a global supplier of motion control systems. Mr. 

Bradbury’s company is a family-owned company and a major employer for Rockford, with around 200 employees. 

Welcome. 

STATEMENT OF JIM BRADBURY, PRESIDENT, GRAND RAPIDS 

CONTROLS CO., LLC, ROCKFORD, MICHIGAN 

Mr. BRADBURY. Hi. Thank you, Ms. Vela ́zquez and the Small 

Business Committee, for inviting me here today to discuss how the 

economy has impacted my business. My name is Jim Bradbury, 

10 

and I am president and CEO of Grand Rapids Controls Company, 

LLC. 

Today, I am going to share with you some background history on 

how the automotive and office furniture industry has changed how 

we do business, and how the current economy is different than it 

was just a few years ago. 

Founded in 1968, GRC designs and manufacturers motion controls for automotive and office furniture OEMs. When you adjust 

your seat, open a car door or window, you are likely to use our 

products. Headquartered in Rockford, Michigan, GRC also has 

manufacturing plants in Greenville, Michigan, and Qingdao, China. 

Known as a problem solver by our customers, GRC provides fullservice support and R&D, testing and manufacturing of finished 

products. Two hundred people work for us in Michigan today. 

For the first 20 years, GRC mostly supplied a commodity product. In the early 1990s, the consumers’ tastes changed, and more 

features were required on chairs and in vehicles. We responded by 

developing the ability to design new products for these applications. 

In response to the increase in offshore competition, GRC developed lean manufacturing techniques and automated machines to 

increase productivity. In 2001, the economy started to decline, as 

competition continued to increase. Chinese and Mexican competitors were achieving acceptable quality, while offering significant 

price savings to our customers. In just a couple of years we started 

to see large chunks of business move out of our plant to these faroff places. In the span of 3 years, we saw sales slide 50 percent. 

In the summer of 2004, the owners of GRC sold the company to 

another family-owned business, The Charlton Group. The Charlton 

Group brought knowledge of international business and financial 

resources to grow the business. However, the new company needed 

to stop bleeding cash, and a new competitive business model was 

required. 

Immediately, we cut expenses, stepped up sales efforts, evaluated 

our products and met with customers to find out where they were 

headed. In talking with our customers, we were informed that we 

needed a plant in a low-cost country for them to continue doing 

business with us. We determined that our commodity product was 

too difficult to automate, so we collaborated with a partner to open 

a plant in China. 

This served two purposes. First, it positioned us well for China’s 

future domestic growth. And secondly, it gave us a competitive 

model for a commodity product in the short term. The strategy 

worked, and we were awarded 17 new programs. By the end of 

2007, we achieved over 85 percent growth, all of our plants were 

full, 100 new jobs were created in the U.S., and profitability was 

up. 

During the growth period, we had borrowed a great deal of 

money to reinvent the company. By the end of 2007, we had paid 

most of the new debt off, and 2008 looked to be another good year. 

But 2008 has proven a challenge to manage. In the first quarter 

of the year, a large supplier went on strike for 3 months, reducing 

our sales by 20 percent. Material and gas prices rose dramatically 

at the end of the strike. Vehicle inventories were up. Customers 

11 

started to slash orders, and the industry panicked with no end in 

sight to high gas prices. 

The office furniture industry was no exception, as the OEMs 

made a commitment to buy global companies and began to move 

and source existing products overseas. The end result was a 40 percent decline in sales and loss of profitability. In response to the decline of revenue, we had to cancel wage increases and bonuses. Resources are restricted to operationally critical items, sales growth 

and cost reduction activities. 

Despite the pessimistic outlook for 2008, GRC has achieved some 

great results. 

The bigger hurdle may not be the loss of sales, but the effect that 

the tightening credit markets will have on unprepared small business. Financially, GRC uses a line of credit for daily operational activity. The limit on the line of credit is based on a formula that calculates a percentage of our qualified accounts receivable, plus a 

percentage of our qualified inventory. As sales fall, AR and inventory shrink, effectively reducing our line of credit. Banks aren’t 

sure of the value of our assets and are taking a much more conservative approach to lending. Despite our best efforts, we are getting squeezed by unsecured creditors and loss of sales revenue. 

I have traveled all over the world, and I believe America’s creative culture and can-do attitude are great strengths. I have also 

seen how Government can accelerate creativity in the support of research and development. However, I believe other countries have a 

competitive advantage over America’s small businesses, because in 

an American company most of their R&D is passed on to customers 

in higher prices. In other countries, the Government partnerships 

are more aggressively supporting the supplier R&D expenses to 

offer the world a better price, or the Government allows the copying of the technology. 

Each year it becomes harder to compete in our home market. I 

encourage you to help American small business by providing the 

necessary resources to create a fair playing field and develop new 

technologies so that we can develop new technologies and we can 

grow. 

Thank you for taking the time to listen to my testimony, and I 

hope it provides insight into the plight of the small businesses in 

today’s economy. We are doing everything we can to support our 

employees and our stakeholders in our effort to create a great company. 

The economy is fragile today, and it appears recovery is many 

months away. If credit is not available to small business and the 

field of play remains uneven, small business will continue to have 

an uphill battle and America will suffer. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Bradbury is included in the appendix at 

page 65.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Bradbury. 

The Chair recognizes Mr. Chabot for the purpose of introducing 

our next witness. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. 

12 

And it is my pleasure to introduce Thomas Franke, executive 

vice president and chairman of the board of Riemeier Lumber in 

Cincinnati, Ohio. 

Riemeier Lumber is a fourth-generation building materials company founded in 1925 by Harry D. Riemeier and his son, Harold, 

to service the furniture and wagon industries. At the end of Prohibition, Riemeier grew by selling soft wood to distilleries and whiskey warehouses. During World War II, the company supplied lumber and plywood to the war effort and struggled with the challenges of price controls and scarce resources. 

Post-World War II expansion and the homebuilding boom led 

Riemeier to supply lumber to the homebuilding industry. Other 

family members joined the company as it expanded. Riemeier 

weathered volatility in the housing market over the years, and the 

business continued to grow. 

However, the housing downturn of the past 2 years, coupled with 

difficult economic conditions, caused the company to begin layoffs, 

including people who had worked for Riemeier for 20 or 30 years. 

Although Riemeier sales were still strong, its bank would not allow 

the company to borrow against millions of dollars in receivables. 

Efforts to find investors or sell the property were unsuccessful. 

Last week, the company held an auction and closed. 

I want to thank Mr. Riemeier for coming to Washington to tell 

the story of his family’s small business and to help us understand 

what we can do for similar companies that are struggling and need 

access to credit in these difficult times. 

Mr. Franke, welcome. 

STATEMENT OF THOMAS FRANKE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT AND CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, RIEMEIER LUMBER, 

CINCINNATI, OHIO 

Mr. FRANKE. First of all, thank you to the Committee for inviting 

us, and especially Congressman Chabot. 

I will be a little redundant here, but this is Riemeier’s story. The 

Riemeier Lumber Company was founded in 1925. The company 

started out selling the industrial market hardwood lumber for furniture and wagon building. The end of Prohibition moved the company into the commercial market, selling lumber for distilleries and 

warehouses for storage of whiskey. The end of World War II vaulted Riemeier into the residential market, with the large need for 

housing. These three markets were the core of the business. 

The growth of Riemeier caused us to purchase and move into a 

new facility in May of 2000. The new facility more than doubled 

the acreage, warehouse and office space to allow for future growth. 

In November of 2005, a wall panel operation was started called 

Riemeier Structural Solutions. This was the process of constructing 

exterior and interior walls at the facility and delivering them to the 

job site, resulting in reduced costs and higher quality for the builder customers. The company was prospering, and by the end of 2005 

Riemeier Lumber and Riemeier Structural Solutions had record 

sales of approximately $58 million and roughly 150 employees. 

Customer demand for one-stop shopping placed the company in 

the market for a roof truss operation. The purchase of Panel Barn 

Lumber/Truss Design was agreed upon in 2006 and bank financed 

13 

in February of 2007, adding roughly 30 jobs. We now had the business model that would carry us long into the future, being able to 

provide lumber, wall panels and roof trusses. 

As the housing market began to struggle in 2006, our sales declined by 5 percent from our prior year record sales, and Riemeier 

Lumber experienced its first layoff in history in November of 2006. 

Sales for the first quarter of 2007 were poor, and in April we made 

our second round of cuts. 

We managed to make minimal profit from April through August 

and added a second shift at truss in anticipation of a good September and October, as those were typically strong months as 

builders rushed to finish projects prior to winter. Sales during this 

period were well below expectations, and we had our third round 

of cuts in October. 

We finished 2007 down 24 percent in sales, causing a significant 

loss. Our banking relationship that was so strong in 2005, 2006 

and 2007 as we grew and expanded the business deteriorated during the latter half of 2007 as the housing market continued to decline and the credit crisis accelerated. 

Our builder customers were affected by the downturn and the 

credit crisis. They were unable to pay us, which caused our credit 

to suffer, as their unpaid receivables were not considered good collateral by the bank. At the same time, our bank itself was suffering 

greatly in the credit crisis from its involvement with the subprime 

lending. 

As the credit crisis deepened at the end of 2007 and beginning 

of 2008, and its effect on our bank became more evident and public, 

only 10 months after receiving additional financing from our bank 

for the truss acquisition our bank declared Riemeier to be in default of its loan covenants. 

Whereas the bank had always previously insisted that it be the 

sole lender and banking institution for Riemeier, it now insisted 

that Riemeier find other sources of financing so that our bank’s exposure would be reduced. Despite Riemeier’s many attempts to 

comply with this request, it was not able to secure additional financing due to the condition of the industry and the continuing 

credit crisis. The company went through a bank-supervised period 

of forbearance, during which interest rates and bank fees were increased, creating greater losses for our company. 

As our bank’s action became public, we began to see a more rapid 

decline in our sales. On August 11th, the bank began the winddown process, including letters to send to our customers and vendors explaining that we were going out of business. There was also 

a list of employees and their termination date and a list of our current jobs in process and whether they would be completed or not. 

This was accomplished by the bank-mandated consultant that is 

under contract with Riemeier as required by the forbearance. 

The current state of the company is as follows. The real estate 

is currently for sale. Assets, including trucks, office furniture, mill 

equipment and tools, have been sold at auction. All material that 

could not be sold beforehand was also auctioned. There are five employees left, including Ken, myself and three accounting people to 

do collections until the last day that we will be at the facility, 

14 

which is slated for November 6th. We will then close our door forever. 

Thank you. 

[The statement of Mr. Franke is included in the appendix at page 

69.] 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Franke. 

Mr. Bradbury, if I may, I would like to address my first question 

to you. 

The primary story line on the credit crunch has focused on major 

financial institutions on Wall Street. However, many have argued 

that these credit issues are creating even more daunting problems 

for businesses on Main Street. 

As a small-business owner, what have you seen in terms of accessible and affordable credit over the last 12 months? 

Mr. BRADBURY. Currently, banks seem to be less interested in 

our business. We have had numerous people—we, like you, we 

were looking at moving into one bigger facility a year ago, because 

our facilities were full. Multiple banks looked at financing it for us. 

Today, most of them want to walk, and a lot of them just want to 

walk away from automotive. So we are getting new lenders in the 

market that don’t understand our needs. 

They are also questioning the asset values. They are re-looking 

at our asset values to see if we can borrow money or not against 

them in the future. And they also seem to have to go up higher in 

their chain of command to get decisions made, which slows down 

the process. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Franke, you testified that 

Riemeier’s long-time lender essentially told you to go elsewhere for 

finance when times were tough. 

Can you talk to us about the struggles that you faced in identifying alternative sources of credit for your company? 

Mr. FRANKE. We tried numerous sources, I guess, first-, secondand third-tier lending. We decided against third-tier lending, and 

we really couldn’t find first- or second-tier lending. There were no 

banks that were interested. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Can you talk to us as to the primary 

reasons why those financial institutions did not offer financing to 

you? 

Mr. FRANKE. We were on a pretty good cash burn. We lost significant money in 2007 and continued that into 2008. And that was 

the primary reason. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Brown, you discussed that agriculture is the economic foundation for thousands of Main Streets 

across the country. 

Do you feel that the struggles facing rural America have been 

largely ignored in this recovery process? 

Mr. BROWN. Yes, we do, Madam Chairwoman. 

The items I identified earlier, which are foundational health care 

costs that have continued to escalate at an unacceptable rate—usually, if you think of a farmer, it is a farmer and his family, and 

he has to buy his or her own health care. 

Secondly, agriculture, historically, is fully dependent on availability of credit to the farm. Farming is a very high-risk operation—the vagaries of weather, pestilence, disease, et cetera; and 

15 

it requires significant money for feed, fertilizer, fuel at this time of 

the year for the spring plant. Likewise, it is not unusual for a 

3,000-acre corn farmer to have to buy 10,000 gallons of diesel fuel 

to run his or her combine in the fall. 

None of these, to the best of my knowledge, have been addressed 

in the economic programs discussed. 

I think rural lenders are attempting to do a very good job. I do 

not find fault with them, other than when you get on the down side 

of the slope and your financial ratios start to slide, when you need 

the help the most is rarely when you get it. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you, Mr. Brown. 

Ms. Dorfman, every day we hear stories, anecdotal stories in the 

papers, on TV, about small businesses complaining about the fact 

of the credit crunch, that they are not able to access affordable capital and lines of credit. The SBA and their business loan programs 

are there, and yet you think that this is a time for those programs 

to be basically used, and what we hear is that the lending volume 

for SBA loan programs have been declining. 

Based on what you hear from your members, do you believe that 

this is an accurate claim, that businesses simply are not seeking 

loans and capital during this economic downturn? 

Ms. DORFMAN. I do not. We have surveyed several hundred members who have been looking for ways to access credit. And some of 

them have very good credit and have been paying on time, have 

had lines of credit, and they have been cut. 

When you take a look at the SBA loans, some of the issues that 

we hear are that the fees on both sides, the bank sides and the 

small business sides, are so enormous that it really is challenging 

to get an SBA loan just from that alone. We also see that the banks 

are not really, as you mentioned, being friendly to folks who have 

been with them for years and years and years. 

When we hear this bailout package, money goes to the banks, 

but where does it go then? It certainly has not gone down to the 

small-business owner to access capital. The capital, in how they are 

working, they have actually tightened the ability to get the loans 

and the capital that they need for small businesses. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Wilson, during this recent downturn, we have seen steep declines in SBA lending year after year. 

And our hope was that these programs will do just the opposite 

and kick in when conventional lending pulled back. 

So why have we not seen this? What do you think is the primary 

reason or reasons for this steep decline in SBA lending programs? 

Mr. WILSON. I think it has a lot to do with the application process. I believe, also, that the costs have risen to the point where 

small businesses are concerned about making an application, 

maybe being denied, but having a lot of expense involved. Banks 

are concerned because of the process. 

So, as I stated in my testimony, I think there are some things 

that could be done with the SBA program, including raising the 

limit on guarantees so that more communities and more businesses 

would be touched by the SBA. 

And you are absolutely right. This is exactly the time when we 

need SBA to step forward and to take a larger role in funding 

small businesses. 

16 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. So you feel that the cost of the loans, 

that if the Government provides a higher loan guarantee, that it 

will incentivize financial institutions to make those loans? 

Mr. WILSON. That is correct. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

I recognize Mr. Chabot. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Mr. Wilson, I will begin with you, if I can. Relative to the $700 billion, which then went up to $850 billion, bailout or rescue plan 

or whatever terminology one wants to use, there have apparently 

been a number of businesses and banks, in particular, that are 

thinking about or trying to use a fairly significant portion of that 

money to purchase other institutions. 

What are your thoughts about that? And how helpful is that? 

And how does that affect banks like your own? 

Mr. WILSON. Let’s go back to the original bill that was passed. 

Certainly, a bank like ours was very conflicted as to whether to 

support or not support that kind of action. 

You know, there is a big difference between the regulated sector 

of the financial services industry and the nonregulated sectors. As 

a matter of fact, I have always learned that, to solve a problem, 

you have to understand, to be able to define the problem. And certainly one of the problems is the definition of the word ′′bank.′′ Regulated, nonregulated, all called banks. Wall Street, Main Street, investment banks and commercial banks, all called banks. So it is 

difficult to understand the important differences between these 

firms. 

So in a bank like ours that stuck to sound lending principles, 

that has the capital and the liquidity and the earnings and the 

growth and the asset quality to continue to lend, to continue to 

meet the credit needs of our customers, it would have been very 

easy to say that that bill was a really bad idea. 

However, I don’t think there is any doubt that it was needed. 

And it was needed because the credit markets were locked up and 

they had to be released. 

We have a small business in our area that is a retirement home. 

That retirement home has bonds outstanding for building their facility. When a series of those bonds came up, there was no market 

for those bonds. The same experience was repeated with a hospital 

in our area; that was repeated in lots of different ways. That was 

repeated by some of the banks that I am sure other witnesses are 

talking about, where they just simply did not have the liquidity to 

meet loan demand. 

So the bill had to happen. Now that it is there, how do we use 

it? And, as I said in my testimony, you could use it to inject capital, 

but you also could use it to guarantee loans. And in guaranteeing 

loans, you leave that relationship intact between the borrower and 

the bank. You leave intact the creation of capital if you guarantee 

those loans. 

So I think a better use would probably be to buy back loans. Obviously they are going to be buying back securities. And I presume 

that some capital injection makes sense, but I would prefer they 

did a lot more of the former. 

Mr. CHABOT. Okay. Thank you very much. 

17 

Ms. Dorfman, I will turn to you next, if I can. I think it is fair 

to say from your statement that the bailout, or, again, rescue plan, 

you had some real concerns about it in how it was structured and 

everything else. And, of course, it happened now, it is already done, 

so I won’t ask you how you would have structured it. 

But now that it is the law, are there changes, modifications? Because Congress can always change things. How would you suggest 

that we modify this over the next upcoming months or year to 

make it more useful for small-business folks? 

Ms. DORFMAN. Well, again, I think we need to ensure that there 

is a benefit to the small-business owner. 

And I would just like to reflect back on the lending. I had a 

member who went for a small business loan with Bank of America 

about 6 weeks ago, before the financial issues, and she was told 

that, ′′We don’t do small business loans.′′ And the question was, 

well, not even the SBA loans? No. But what they would give is a 

line of credit, or revolving credit, at 21 percent interest. 

So, I really have a concern that the money that is out there is 

not being used appropriately in terms of assisting the small-business owner’s access to capital. And I feel that is where the focus 

we should be, that we need to get the lines of credit back to where 

they were. Our members have been very good about paying them 

back. And the ones who are growing, they can’t even get the capital 

they need so that they can hire more people and try and help turn 

the economy around. So I think that is where the focus needs to 

be. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Brown, relative to the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts on capital 

gains and across the board and all the other ones that were passed, 

the Federal inheritance tax, the death tax, do you have an opinion 

as to whether—even though we haven’t made them permanent yet, 

they haven’t gone back up, but Congress, in its budget this past 

year, put us on the glide path for those tax cuts ending, and there 

has been a lot of talk about capital gains, taxes going back up. 

Do you have an opinion as to how that would affect small businesses and markets and job creation? 

Mr. BROWN. Thank you, sir. We would support the continuation 

of those, not for profit taking, but for reinvestment. Most of our 

constituency are sole entrepreneurs, closely and privately held. The 

contribution of profitability from reduced taxes, the vast majority 

is reinvested in the business, either to buy equipment or to hire additional people. 

If I am allowed to comment on some of the earlier thrusts in regard to bankers and what can be done, I empathize greatly with 

Mr. Franke. Our company several years ago was on the verge of 

bankruptcy. I faced a choice, a very difficult one: Pay the banker, 

pay payroll, or pay a bankruptcy attorney. I sought to pay the 

bankruptcy attorney so I could hold the others at bay. 

There is a reason things are happening today the way they are, 

and it is called the pace of change. For a small company like most 

of ours, we don’t have the critical mass to absorb a jolting change 

in the marketplace. I am going to use one example. 

Steel, which comprises the vast majority of our purchases, went 

up 85 percent in the months of April and May. Health care walked 

18 

in and gave us a 28 percent price increase or cost increase. We 

don’t have the resiliency to absorb that, and that often pushes 

smaller companies to the brink of things they prefer not to do. 

This may not sound very sophisticated in a legal term, but I 

would like to see incorporated in this environment a timeout so 

that the details of situations can be evaluated, so that declining or 

deteriorating financials on the part of a small business don’t impair 

the bank’s credit rating. Likewise, let us get the detail out and sort 

out. There may be some businesses legitimately that should go out, 

but with the pace of change that we are all experiencing, far too 

many are going out when they don’t need to. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. 

Mr. Bradbury, you stated in your testimony, ′′In talking to the 

bank, the feeling I get is that at the lower levels, they do not have 

a clear direction on what they can or cannot do in regards to loan 

approvals.′′ 

Could you go into that in a little detail, what you meant by that? 

Mr. BRADEN. Well, the bank we are using, because credit lines 

and things are coming down, and it is just through the natural progression, that when you need to go and get a decision made at a 

bank about funding future growth, they want to go to their corporate headquarters to get an answer versus being able to have a 

direction at the bank level. So the loan officer doesn’t seem to have 

a clear picture of what he has approved and what decisions he can 

make, and they are still trying to figure that out. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. 

Mr. Franke, just a couple of questions. One, where do you all go 

from here? Do you have any kind of plans at this point? And how 

many employees were there that they lost their jobs over this period of time? 

Mr. FRANKE. At the high point we were roughly 170. And my 

brother and I have one thing maybe in the works. We are talking, 

we have a nondisclosure. But we also have a guarantee to the 

bank, so we have to resolve that before we can move forward. 

Mr. CHABOT. And how many other small businesses did you use 

as suppliers? I assume that this will have an impact on them as 

well? 

Mr. FRANKE. Numerous, yes. There were independent wholesale 

people left in town, and some of the larger ones. But, yes, we used 

almost everybody that was involved in the building material supply. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much. 

Mr. WILSON. Congressman Chabot, may I follow up on that question? 

Mr. CHABOT. Sure. 

Mr. WILSON. One of the things I expressed in my testimony was 

a concern, and it is a natural concern, that in these times regulators become overly concerned about things, and they can contribute to a credit crunch. They are very concerned right now about 

commercial real estate, so all banks are under great scrutiny in 

that area. As a matter of fact, they have even set guidelines as to 

capital, as to how much a bank can have in commercial real estate. 

SBA guarantees protect banks from the regulators in that regard, so I would just add while we are on the subject of SBA and 

19 

the ability of SBA to help in this particular case, again expanding 

the SBA guarantees allows banks to put more money into small 

businesses without receiving criticism from regulators. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much. 

I yield back, Madam Chairman. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Ellsworth. 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Thank you, Madam Chairman, for hosting this 

meeting, and thank you all for your testimony. We learned quite 

a bit. 

Mr. Wilson, I was interested when you said you were conflicted 

on whether to support or at least take the rescue bailout and support that. We were conflicted, too. I think there were 435 Members 

that were conflicted. 

How did you come down to your conclusion to think it was maybe 

not a good idea, but the idea at the time, to support that or at least 

encourage that path? It may not have been the bill that you would 

have written, but it was what we faced. What did you use as criteria to say it was probably a good idea at the time? 

Mr. WILSON. I went back to how we got in the situation that we 

are in. And if you take a look the housing boom, the housing burst, 

the housing bubble, and you go back to 2006, which was kind of 

the banner year, 76 percent of the mortgage loans made that year, 

and we know that because of HMDA data, were made by the unregulated sector of the banking industry. That means that 24 percent were made by the regulated portion. 

So, what happened was these loans were made no matter whether they were suitable or not. They were made by people who were 

receiving commission, not underwriting loans and putting them on 

their own books. So those loans were then sold, securitized, and 

amazing to me, but a lot of bankers bought those securities. So the 

net result was on the books of banks that may have said no to the 

loan, but said yes to the securities, those they are now calling toxic 

assets had tied up a tremendous amount of capital and liquidity. 

That had to change. There were banks in our area that simply 

could not meet the credit needs of their customers because they 

didn’t have the liquidity or the capital to do that. 

The investment banks in particular, that you are very aware of, 

were locked up with these assets and couldn’t provide liquidity. 

When companies from General Motors down to small businesses 

went out to borrow, they found that either there was nobody willing to buy bonds or make the loans, or in the case of bonds, if they 

could sell them, a corporate bond, they were at extraordinary rates, 

30 percent, 40 percent, et cetera. 

In order to get our economy moving again, and if the economy 

doesn’t work, no matter how good we are in Lebanon, Ohio, there 

is going to be a problem, the bill had to be passed, liquidity had 

to be injected into the system, and so I applaud Congress for taking 

that action. 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Thank you. 

You said earlier in your written testimony that hearings like this 

allow us to discuss these issues and work together to restore confidence in our financial system. 

What do you see now moving forward to restore the confidence 

in the small business owner with the financial institutions to get 

20 

that moving? What would you see? We want to restore confidence 

in these guys at this end of the table. 

Mr. WILSON. I think what they have to understand is the fact 

that we are small businesses also, for the most part. For example, 

the Small Business Administration defines a small business as less 

than 500 employees. By that definition, 8,100 community banks are 

small businesses. As a matter of fact, that is 97 percent of the industry. And even more telling, over 3,500, or 41 percent, have 

fewer than 30 employees. So there are a lot of options out there 

that maybe small businesses didn’t pursue. Small business had access to a lot of different financing options, and many of them 

moved away from their community banks. 

I would suggest that there are a lot of community banks out 

there with the capital and the liquidity and the desire to make 

loans, and you just need to keep looking. 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Thank you. 

Ms. Dorfman, this Committee probably has the best chance of 

changing things within the Small Business Administration, and 

thank you for being here again and your honest testimony. 

What changes do you seek, on this side of the table, could be 

made in the short term with SBA that we can really have an effect 

and we can go after between now and the end of the year or early 

next year that would provide the most short-term help? 

Ms. DORFMAN. First of all, again, if you increase the loan guarantees and the limits, we do need to make sure that it is going to be 

2 years or more. I personally faced a while ago when I got an SBA 

loan where it was 80 percent guaranteed, the banks—when it first 

came out that it was 80 percent, the banks had been lending at a 

50 percent guarantee, and I was turned down, turned down, turned 

down, simply because they were not willing to restructure how they 

were going to be manufacturing the loan, in quotes. So if there is 

a long-term—you know, it is going to be that way for 2 years, then 

they are more likely to restructure how they do loans. So I think 

that is important. 

We need to have increased lending authority, lower fees absolutely. Loosen up the rules on the credit-worthiness and also loosen 

up equity injection rules. Relax the rules for refinancing, especially 

credit card debt, since many of our small businesses are now having to turn to their credit cards to make ends meet in this time 

frame. Relax life insurance and job creation requirements. And 

then also allow those with current SBA loans that may need to restructure them for a lower payment to be able to do so. 

So those are some of the thoughts we have had. 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Could I ask another question, just another for 

clarification? 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes. 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. On that point, because loosening the rules of 

credit-worthiness, some would argue that is what got us into the 

loans that went to people that weren’t worthy of loans, and that 

is why we are in this, and I am not talking about small business, 

maybe home loans. 

How would you argue that? When I go home and say that is one 

of the things we want to change, they are going, that is what got 

us into this problem to begin with. 

21 

Ms. DORFMAN. If you take a look at home loans especially, what 

has happened is if, quote/unquote, you own your own business, and 

they view you as self-employed, even though you are bringing in 

money all the time, it is very difficult to get the loans that you 

might need. So there are times when some of the regulations need 

to be loosened, and certainly you need to take a look at that. 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Thank you, Madam Chairman. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

Mr. Franke, the reason we called this hearing today is to hear 

from you and see how can Congress take actions to be able to provide tools and help to assist small businesses, which are the job 

creators in our country. I can tell you that help didn’t come soon 

enough for your business, but I hope that in the process of discussing a second stimulus package, that we are able to use the insights that we are getting from you today to be able to have some 

input into the end product of that second stimulus package. 

So I would like to ask you, we know that the company you run 

has been in operation since 1925, and I am sure that you have 

faced many obstacles throughout that time. However, you discuss 

how the problems in the housing market compounded the challenges facing your lender. 

Do you believe that if credit was made more available, that companies like yours might be able to rebound rather than shut their 

doors? 

Mr. FRANKE. I think probably if they would have remained tightened earlier, we wouldn’t have hit this wall. So now, yes, probably. 

But, yes, I would say probably so. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Wilson, from your testimony, it is 

clear that banks want to lend, but again we have heard so many 

businesses express difficulty in getting loans. How can we resolve 

this disconnect and help businesses find lenders who are ready, 

willing and able to help? 

Mr. WILSON. Well, the first step was to unfreeze the credit markets. I know so often we look at the financial markets as the major 

stock market went up, stock market went down, but it is really the 

credit markets where the problem lies. And no matter what our desire as a small bank is to make loans, if the larger banks and if 

the bond market is tied up and nonfunctioning, it will be very difficult to meet all of the needs in our country for credit. So, again, 

I think that it was very, very important that you moved forward 

as you did. 

To Congressman Ellsworth’s point, I know he was conflicted a 

bit, using that word again, on somebody wants a loan, we lower the 

standards, is that a good idea. And I would submit to you that it 

is not a good idea. I think that is what did get us into trouble. I 

believe that as a banker, we are doing our customer a favor when 

we tell them ′′no′′ if we truly believe they are not going to succeed. 

To make a loan to somebody that is going to result in their failure 

does not make sense, but to work with them to understand how 

they can move forward—and I know you indicated that if they 

would have kept their standards steady throughout, that you would 

still be in business today, and I believe that. 

I received an e-mail the other day. That e-mail was from a customer that said they had come in to see me, and I know the year, 

22 

because they said they asked questions about Y2K, so it was the 

1999 time frame. That customer indicated that they had liked my 

answers, and they had opened accounts with our bank, and subsequently we turned down a loan to them. They were frustrated, they 

were angry, and they left our bank. His e-mail was to say he 

shouldn’t have been granted that loan; that he is back, because if 

we would have told him no, he would have been in better financial 

stature at this point in time; and that he moved back to our bank 

because he appreciates the fact that we underwrite loans, that we 

are concerned about the success of our customers and the suitability of loans. 

So, you are absolutely right. The answer is not to lower credit 

standards. It is to inject the capital and the liquidity. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Yes, Mr. Bradbury. 

Mr. BRADBURY. I would like to respond a little bit. I think we all 

can select anecdotal stories, in all fairness, Mr. Wilson. 

There is real math at work here, whether we talk about a farmer 

whose input costs have gone up 100 percent, over 100 percent, his 

financials haven’t changed, but to deny credit under those circumstances that is beyond his control, he or she hasn’t changed a 

thing. In the case of our company, steel going up 85 percent. We 

spend $6 million to $8 million a month, and we don’t get it back 

at the earliest until 90 days, usually 120 days, and to deny credit 

in those circumstances based upon those facts to me is not appropriate. 

So, there are proper times when businesses are failing across the 

board, but we are in, in my view, very unusual times with $140, 

at one point, oil, steel up 85 percent, and some of the other figures. 

These for small businesses are just Draconian percentages that we 

have to deal with, and, frankly, we need the help of the banking 

community. 

Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Bradbury, over the past few 

months, there has been a wide discussion of the challenges facing 

the automakers in the United States. How important is the domestic auto industry for small businesses like yours and others across 

the country? 

Mr. BRADBURY. Well, in automotive, there are many tiers of suppliers. There are five tiers up to the OEM level. We fit in the tier 

2 to 3, meaning we have a loot of tiers below us that support us. 

As credit tightens, there was a lot of weak companies already 

going into this. Fortunately for us, and I am going to kind of elaborate a little here, we have a fiscal responsibility to control our debt 

as a small company, and our stakeholders insist we pay our debts 

off. 

Had that not been the case, I might be sitting in his shoes today, 

because we were about ready to grow and expand, not even a year 

ago, and because we ran into some issues with some bond financing 

on the property, we decided not to, and luckily that saved us a lot 

of extra costs. 

But the communities, we supply $20 million in income into our 

community. That is a significant amount, in taxes, wages, not to 

mention all the other suppliers’ products we buy. So there is a tremendous ripple effect that is present there if they start to collapse. 

23 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

Mr. Brown, you discussed that many small manufacturers are 

currently struggling with decreased demand for their products. Has 

your company’s sales been affected, and are you considering layoffs 

or delaying expansion plans? 

Mr. BROWN. We actually are in a growth mode. We are in a 

growth mode because we were concerned about the volatility in 

America. We approached the Kansas World Trade Center and also 

the U.S. Department of Commerce. 

We didn’t start exporting until just 3 years ago. With their help, 

we are now, as I mentioned in my testimony, exporting to Russia, 

Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Australia, a little bit to the U.K., and we are 

developing the skills. Frankly, there is a huge body of knowledge 

on how to finance it, Ex-Im Bank and the paperwork that is required. This is an area both for Krause and the small enterprise 

Committee that we are going to aggressively go after. 

Our strategy, because of the volatility within America, has been 

to stabilize by going global. When America goes through the 

spasms, and that, in my view, is what this is, this has provided a 

buffer. So, we actually are growing. I think agricultural equipment 

producers generally have been growing this past year because of 

the global shortage of food. Construction equipment, conversely, 

very much mirrors the general economy, the reduction in infrastructure, bridges, building, residential. They are hurting to a 

greater extent than my company is. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Thank you. 

Mr. Chabot? 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have a couple of 

questions. 

Mr. Wilson, could you comment on to what extent the high energy costs that we had over the last year or so, whether it is gas 

or diesel, what impact you think that had on small businesses and 

the economy, if it did, if you think it did; and then what, if any, 

impact do you think the rapidly falling price at the pump—I saw 

it as low as $1.99 in Cincinnati yesterday, at least four stations 

had it at that, so it has come down pretty quickly. Some of the reasons, unfortunately, aren’t the best, obviously, because the economy 

is tough right now. 

Could you comment on that? 

Mr. BROWN. I am sorry, I thought you said Mr. Wilson. 

Mr. CHABOT. If I did, I apologize. I meant you. I have my next 

question for Mr. Wilson. 

We can’t see your names down there. We spend all this money 

on the new room, and we can’t see your names. 

Mr. BROWN. Energy costs are critical in agriculture. Fertilizers, 

what has happened in fertilizer is extraordinary. By order of magnitude, 5 years ago, anhydrous ammonia, which is the primary nitrogen fertilizer, was between $120 and $180 a ton. This past year, 

it was $1,200 a ton. It is made from natural gas primarily. It has 

now, quote/unquote, dropped to $800 a ton. 

So the impact of high energy costs have driven inflationary ramifications throughout every industry, agriculture notwithstanding. 

Certainly on the construction side, the reduction of allegedly of 1 

24 

billion miles a month of driving and the order of magnitude like 

that has had a very dramatic impact as well. 

So, the drop for us personally, our company, the drop to $70 oil, 

while it will be helpful, pales in comparison to our cost of steel and 

health care. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. 

This time I did mean the question to you, Mr. Wilson, if I could. 

Did you have a comment? 

Mr. BRADBURY. Yes. In automotive, plastics are all made with oil 

resins. So as oil went up, plastics went up, and you saw a lot of 

bankruptcies in the plastic industry because we can’t pass our increases on to our end customers. We also get charged, we have 

daily shipments coming into our plants. There are surcharges on 

all of those for gas. So as that comes down, that does help us in 

that it will reduce costs over time. 

It also goes to the model mix in the automotive. Many people 

were buying large SUVs and trucks and vans. That changed overnight. I mean, there was a huge percentage drop in those vehicles. 

They are starting to creep back up, which will stabilize the market 

a little and buy time to meet the CAFE long-term. 

Mr. CHABOT. Finally, Mr. Wilson, could you comment, you are familiar with the mark to market accounting changes that were 

made some time ago. Could you comment on the impact that that 

had on this whole financial mess that we have seen recently? There 

have been some changes suggested and I think that are in the 

process of being implemented. But could you comment on that 

whole process and how that has affected the banks and how your 

books look and why you can or can’t lend because of that? 

Mr. WILSON. It has been a major impact, and the impact has 

been that it takes liquidity off our books. If we have to write down 

a security that we have no intention of selling, we are going to hold 

to maturity, it is going to be worth its face value, yet according to 

those accounting rules, it is worth today half, say, of what it was. 

Well, that is that much liquidity, capital, that comes off our books. 

Mark to market is an interesting thing. If we mark to market 

both sides of the balance sheet, if we mark everything to market, 

our buildings, et cetera, et cetera, both sides of the balance sheet, 

there might be some sense to it. But to just simply pick off things 

out of the balance sheet and have us mark them to market is a bad 

idea. It is an idea that when the FASB or the Accounting Standards Board comes up with something we have to comply with. That 

is why in my testimony I indicated that I would hope there could 

be an oversight board for accounting that would think of the consequences of these things to our economy. It is all done in the sense 

of transparency and making things more visible to shareholders, et 

cetera. 

Well, I would argue if you don’t mark to market the entire balance sheet, you are causing wide swings that don’t need to happen 

and are not representative of what is really going on with our 

bank’s balance sheet. 

So, thank you for asking that, because that is something that is 

of great concern to us. 

25 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you. That was one of the things which contributed to this credit crunch, where banks weren’t able to loan, 

which put us in this terrible position; is that correct? 

Mr. WILSON. That is correct. 

Mr. CHABOT. Thank you very much. I yield back, Madam Chair. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Ellsworth. 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Thank you, Madam Chair. I don’t mean to ignore the three gentleman at this end of the table. My question 

seems to aim more at Ms. Dorfman and Mr. Wilson. 

If the both of you, on the chance that there are entrepreneurs out 

there watching this program today, what advice would you give to 

someone baking cookies or whatever on where they should go? 

They are having trouble getting credit, they are balancing the 

books, they are not balancing the books. What would you tell the 

entrepreneur today where to start looking for those lines of credit? 

Mr. Wilson, would you tell them come into the bank, check and 

see? Ms. Dorfman, what would you tell them, SBA? If you could 

touch on that. 

Ms. DORFMAN. Well, first of all, most of our members are more 

what we call the midlevel businesses. They are manufacturers, 

technology, professional services, a lot of construction folks. So 

their challenges are quite a bit different than what you are referring to as a start-up. 

The start-up, there are resources out there, the Small Business 

Development Centers, they could stop in and start the process of 

understanding how to start a business and what is needed to move 

forward. 

I think with the businesses that we deal with, it has been very 

difficult, because they have relationships with their banks, and 

their banks have just cut them off, and that is the issue. 

Another example you had mentioned, you know, loosen up the 

rules of credit-worthiness. Well, in the cyclical world which many 

of our members operate in, they know that they are going to get 

the check in 30 or 60 or 90 days, but that is not going to fulfill 

what the bank has to do from a regulatory standpoint. So they are 

not able to access that credit for that short term to really be able 

to pay their employees and keep the business going. And that is 

the challenge. 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Thank you. 

Mr. Wilson, any comment on what you would tell the person out 

there, the business owner? 

Mr. WILSON. A couple of things. Number one, I would not give 

up. I think that a lot of businesses that are in difficulty have not 

tried to access the SBA programs. That is one important way to go. 

Another thing is when you are talking to your community bank 

that you have worked with for a long time, if that is your relationship, and they tell you that they think building that new building 

or doing whatever is a bad idea because of numbers, cash flow, et 

cetera, I would suggest that they listen. 

It is a very difficult time right now, and while we want the economy to grow and prosper, individual businesses must be very cautious at this point in time, because if they are not, survival becomes an issue. 

26 

Mr. ELLSWORTH. Thank you all very much, Madam Chairman. I 

yield back. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Wilson, in your testimony you note 

that the economic disruption is now affecting commercial real estate and small business lending. Do you believe that small businesses will have greater access to financing if the TARP were used 

to purchase or guarantee a broader class of loans, including commercial real estate and small business loans? 

Mr. WILSON. I do indeed. If we expand that program to guarantee not just mortgage loans, but to guarantee commercial real estate and small businesses loans, there is no doubt that that would 

provide more access to credit. There are a number of things that 

I had in my testimony, the SBA, what Congressman Chabot referred to as accounting standards. Anything that provides more liquidity to the banking system is going to make them more able and 

more willing to lend. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Wilson, I believe that Congress has 

given the authority to the Secretary of the Treasury to use TARP 

and to extend it to include commercial real estate and small business loans. 

Mr. WILSON. That program is not in place, to my knowledge, at 

the present time. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. They are working on regulations. What 

I am saying is we do not have to revisit the law that we passed, 

because the authority is already there, and we will work with 

Treasury for them to understand that it will be an important tool 

for small businesses. 

Mr. WILSON. Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Brown, you mentioned that many 

rural Americans and small businesses as a result of the current crisis are losing faith in our economic system. Why do you believe 

that there is a crisis of confidence? 

Mr. BROWN. Thank you. The rural Americans, frankly, are looking for solutions to the problem rather than handouts. The example 

I would use, and I will use both construction and agriculture, and 

I think I can speak for the gentlemen to my right, we would much 

rather have markets restored, a vibrancy of the competitive environment, that we can continue to do what we do best, rather than 

many of the programs that are being discussed. 

Rural America doesn’t see or feel often these programs impacting 

them. I am not an accurate historian, but I am going to use an example. Twenty years ago when Japan went through a similar housing situation, they, meaning the central government, did not allow 

unemployment to exceed 6 percent. They invested hugely in roads 

and bridges and dams and other areas that continued business in 

all locales of the economy. 

So, the bottom line for rural Americans, it is kind of a tangible. 

Let us do something that is proactive and positive, rather than just 

dole out money. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Chabot, do you have any other 

questions? 

Mr. CHABOT. No. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I would just like to ask my last question to any of the members of the panel. As you know, there are 

27 

discussions here about a second stimulus package. And I hear you, 

Mr. Brown, but maybe other members of the panel have other opinions regarding any type of proactive action taken through a second 

stimulus package. 

If we do have the opportunity to work on a second stimulus package, what would you tell Congress should be the first or top priority regarding any second stimulus package? 

Mr. Wilson? 

Mr. WILSON. You have a very difficult task there. You are riding 

a very thin line between knowing when to stimulate the economy 

and not creating future problems. If you overstimulate the economy, if you do more than you have to do now, and I am not saying 

you are, it is just a challenge that you face, we are going to face 

increasing inflationary pressures in the future, we are going to increase the national debt in the future, so we are passing on to future generations what we do today. 

It is important to get the economy moving again. It is important 

that you look at things like additional packages, stimulation packages. But be cautious, be careful, because you don’t want to overdo 

it. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Any other comment from any of the 

other Members? 

Ms. DORFMAN. I would agree that getting money back into the 

small business pockets, many of our members say, you know, give 

us the sales. That is what will keep us going. So if there are programs such as Mr. Brown had discussed where the small business 

owner actually gets access to those contracts, then that would be 

great. That would work very well for them. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Brown? 

Mr. BROWN. Yes, thank you again. 

I would strongly urge the first consideration be aimed at what 

we call the capital goods industry, manufacturing and producing 

something that has lasting and sustainable value. 

I personally face a decision whether to continue to build some of 

our product in the United States or build it in Russia, and I 

haven’t got a clue what it is like to build in Russia. I am not sure 

I even want to do it. 

But if we don’t start investing in basic manufacturing and the 

basic capital goods industry in this country, and we continue the 

outsourcing that has occurred, no amount of consumer stimulus 

will solve the problem. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Bradbury? 

Mr. BRADBURY. I agree with Mr. Wilson in the sense of what is 

the right amount of growth and what is the right amount of risk? 

How much debt is too much, and how much growth is too much? 

You know, we are in the automotive industry, and our industry 

has gone global in the last 3 years. We opened a plant in Asia, and 

we had to increase our overhead in order to manage it. In my testimony, I mention the fact that there is opportunity to challenge 

Americans to achieve new heights. We are a society that can rise 

to the challenge. We have seen it time and time again. 

The CAFE is a challenge. It is something that we have to 

achieve. It can drive a new business opportunity for Americans to 

aspire to become the leaders in the world in those types of things. 

28 

But we need enough funding to be able to generate the type of investments we need to make to survive here in this country first. 

Thank you. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Franke? 

Mr. FRANKE. I guess the only thing I could say is I would love 

to go back to 2005 and make some different decisions based on this 

isn’t going to last forever. That is all. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. Mr. Chabot? 

Mr. CHABOT. Just one final comment. I would like to again thank 

you holding the hearing and want to thank all the witnesses for 

their testimony. I think it has been very helpful and informative 

for the Committee. 

I want to especially again thank Mr. Franke. We have had a lot 

of witnesses from Cincinnati, and generally they have happy 

endings. Unfortunately, this is one that is very sad, especially for 

those employees whose jobs had to be eliminated, and I am sure 

for your family, to have been in existence for 125 years. Obviously 

it was a very significant change in the environment that you operated in that has resulted in this. 

So our condolences, and we certainly hope that your family does 

as well as possible and the employees to the extent that you can 

help them as well. We thought this was a story that needed to be 

told in these very tough economic times. Thank you for sharing it 

with us. 

I yield back. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. I echo the comments made by the 

Ranking Member. I will say that the record of this hearing today 

will be made available during any discussion with the leadership 

in terms of a second stimulus package. 

The intent of this hearing was precisely that. Any time that we 

sit at the table to have meaningful discussions regarding how can 

we best stimulate our economy, and what type of tools can we provide for small businesses to enable them to continue to grow our 

economy, that was the main reason for us to call this hearing. So 

I want to take this opportunity to thank all of you for your insightful information. 

Mr. Franke, to you, thank you for your willingness to come and 

tell the story. So many times we discuss the economy and the numbers and the unemployment rate and the deficit, but there is a 

human face to all those numbers, and you signified that at such a 

great level. 

I ask unanimous consent that Members have 5 days to submit 

a statement and supporting materials for the record. 

Without objection, so ordered. 

Chairwoman VELA ́ ZQUEZ. This hearing is now adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 11:40 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.] 

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