1



### Environmental Protection Agency 1

2

3

4

5


### Public Hearing on 6



### Proposed Clean Power Plan for 7


### Existing Power Plants 8

9

10

11



### 9:0 0 a.m. to 2:17 p.m. 12


### Friday, August 1 , 201 4 13

14



### Room B 15


### William S. Moorhead Federal Building 16



### 100 Liberty Avenue 17


### Pittsburg, Pennsylvania 15222 18

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20

21

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### EPA PANEL 1: 1



### MIKE KOERBER
, 2



### EPA Headquarters
, Air Office, North Carolina 3



### CHRISTIAN FELLNER
, 4



### EPA Headquarters
, Air Office, North Carolina 5



### BRIAN REHN , 6


### EPA Regional Office, Philadelphia 7

8



### EPA PANEL 2: 9



### REID HARVEY , 10



### Division Director , E PA's Clean Air Markets 11



### Division 12



### DONNA MASTRO
, 13


### EPA Region 3, Office of Regional Counsel 14



### ANDREW KREIDER , 15


### EPA Region 3, Air Division 16

17

18

19

20

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22

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### C O N T E N T S 1



### PAGE 2



### BRYAN PALKO, 12 3



### Coal miner 4



### BRYAN MARSHALL
, 16 5



### Coal miner 6



### LEVI ALLEN , 20 7



### Coal miner 8



### TIMOTHY MERRYMAN
, 24 9


### Vice president of UMWA 10



### RON JONES
, 27 11



### Coal miner 12



### ADAM HARTLEY , 30 13



### Coal miner 14



### NICOLE DILLINGHAM
, 34 15



### New York resident 16



### NICHOLAS GOODFELLOW
, 38 17


### Pennsylvania student 18



### BETH ANNE MUMFORD
, 44 19



### Di rector , Americans for Prosperit y Pennsylvania 20



### DENNIS YABLONSKY
, 50 21



### CEO, Allegheny Conference on C ommunity Dev. 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### NATHAN SMITH
, 56 3



### Coal miner 4



### RICHARD LUCAS
, 59 5



### Coal miner 6



### RONALD LUKETIC
, 62 7



### Coal miner 8



### D AVE BIENKOSKI
, 65 9



### Coal miner 10



### CAROL BIENKOSKI
, 69 11



### Wife of Dave Bienkoski 12



### KEN SCHILLING
, 72 13


### Manager/CEO, Western Electric Cooperative 14



### BRANDON WOLF
, 77 15



### President, Local 459, International Brotherhood 16



### of Electrical Workers 17



### ABBY RESNICK
, 83 18



### Penn sylvania resident 19



### ED GOOD
, 86 20


### Legislative Director, Utility Workers Union of 21



### America 22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### JOHN ATHERTON
, 91 3


### Professor, Seton Hill University 4



### CYNTHIA WALTER
, 95 5



### Pennsylva nia resident 6



### ANGELA WILEY
, 99 7


### On behalf of Ellen McNulty, Arkansas Wildlife 8



### Federation 9



### SUSAN FRANT
, 104 10



### On behalf of Lynn Iser, Founder, Elder

11



### Activists 12



### JONATHAN GRAY
, 107 13


### Pennsylvania resident 14



### JIM BRITSCH
, 110 15



### Local 29, International Br otherhood of 16



### Electrical Workers 17



### GREG WINKS, 114 18


### On behalf of Gil Frost, Pennsylvania resident 19



### Nicole Catino, 117 20


### Pennsylvania resident 21

22

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### C O N T E N T S (continued) 1



### PAGE 2



### STEPHEN WHITWORTH, 128 3



### Direct or of Environmental Services, 4


### Ameren Corporation 5



### JONATHAN GENSLER, 134 6


### Former United States Army Captain 7



### ROBERT MITCHELL, 140 8


### Scientist and engineer 9



### REBECCA STUDER, 145 10



### Unitarian church member 11



### EDWARD WOLKING, 155 12



### Executive Director of the Great Lakes Metro 13



### Chamber Coalition 14



### JAMIN BOGI, 160 15


### Group Against Smog and Pollution 16

17

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### P R O C E E D I N G S 1



### M R

. KOERBER : Thanks for waiting so 2


### patiently. We'll get started in a couple 3


### minutes. Okay. Good morning and thank you for 4



### bei ng here. My name is Mike Koerber. I'm with 5


### EPA's Headquarters Air office in North Carolina, 6


### and I will be carrying the session this morning. 7


### Joining me on the panel are Christian 8



### Fellner, also with our EPA Air office in North 9



### Carolina, and Brian Rehn with our EPA regional 10


### office in Philadelphia. 11


### We're here today to listen to your 12



### comments on two proposed EPA rules to reduce 13


### carbon pollution from power plants. EPA 14



### announced both of these rules on June 2nd. Power 15



### plants are the largest source of carb on pollution 16


### in the United States, accounting for roughly one

17


### third of all domestic greenhouse gas emissions. 18


### The first rule is EPA's proposed Clean 19


### Power Plan for Existing Power Plants. This 20


### proposal consists of two main parts, state 21


### specific goals to l ower carbon pollution from 22

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### power plants and guidelines to help states 1


### develop their plans for meeting the goals. 2


### The second rule is EPA's proposed rule to 3



### address Carbon Dioxide Emissions from Modified 4



### and Reconstructed Power Plants. This rule would 5



### set emission limits for these two groups of power 6



### plants. 7


### If you would like more detail on either 8



### of these proposed rules, we have fact sheets 9


### available at the registration desk downstairs, 10



### and I think there are some at the table in the 11



### back of the room. 12


### Today's hearing is one of four public 13


### hearings across the country this week on the two 14



### proposed rules. There has been tremendous 15


### interest in each of the hearings, and I'd like to 16


### thank you again for being here today to share 17



### your comments. 18



### Before we get started, I'd like to go 19


### through a few housekeeping items and ground rules 20


### for today's hearing. First, please be sure that 21


### you have checked in at the registration desk 22

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### downstairs, even if you're not planning to speak, 1


### and if you signed up in advance to sp eak and you 2


### haven't checked in, please stop at the desk 3



### downstairs and do so. 4


### Second, if you're a speaker and you were 5


### given a room letter when you checked in, Room A 6


### or Room B, I just want to be clear, this is Room 7



### B. You're, of course, welcome to listen in either 8


### room, but if you were assigned to speak in Room 9


### B, please be here at your designated time. 10


### Third, please keep your phones on 11


### vibrate, and please don't hang around in the hall 12



### outside. There's other offices here. We don’t 13



### want to disturb them

. 14


### Here's how today's hearing will work. I 15


### will call speakers up in pairs. When your name 16


### is called, please come to the table at the front 17



### of the room. When I call on you to speak, please 18


### state and spell your name. Your comments will be 19



### transcribed by our court reporter and included in 20



### our rule

- making record. 21


### Each speaker will have five minutes. We 22

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### have a light to help you know how much time you 1


### have left to speak. When the light turns from 2


### green to yellow, that means you have one minute 3


### remaining . When it turns red, that's the signal 4


### to wrap up your testimony. The light will flash 5



### red and beep

-- oh, you'll hear it beep, believe 6



### me

-- when you have spoken for five minutes and 7


### it's time to stop. 8


### When you're finished speaking, please 9



### remain at th e table until the person next to you 10


### has completed his or her testimony. I will then 11



### call up the ne xt pair of speakers and so on. 12


### The panel is here today to listen to your 13


### comments, but we may ask you some clarifying 14


### comments, if necessary. And if you b rought a 15


### written copy of your testimony, please give it to 16


### the staff at the registration desk, and if you 17



### have extras, we would be happy to take a copy 18



### here; and our court reporter would be happy to 19



### take a copy also. 20



### Because of the large number of people who 21


### signed up to speak today, and to be fair to 22

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### everyone, we must enforce the five

- minute limit. 1


### If you have additional comments you'd like to 2


### make, then please submit them in writing. Let me 3


### assure that EPA gives just as much consideration 4



### to comments we receive in writing as we do 5


### comments we receive at public hearings like this. 6


### There's still plenty of time to send 7



### written comments, and there are comment cards 8


### available at the registration desk downstairs. 9


### They look like this. We have some here. Th ere's 10



### also some on the table in the back of the room. 11


### So you're welcome to fill those out as well. 12


### We'll put any written comments submitted 13


### today in the official record for the proposed 14


### rules. Instructions for submitting written 15


### comments in other ways a re available at the 16


### materials table at the registration desk and I 17



### believe at the back of the room as well. 18


### We're scheduled to go until 8:00 p.m. 19


### tonight. We'll take a lunch break, a dinner 20



### break, and other short breaks as necessary. 21

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### If you have any que stions at all during 1


### the day, please stop at the registration desk 2


### downstairs and someone will help you. 3


### Finally and most importantly, please be 4



### respectful of everyone who speaks today. We have 5


### people here with a wide variety of views, and we 6



### want to hea r from all of you. So to be fair to 7


### everyone, we ask that you listen quietly. Even 8


### applause can slow things down. As I said, we 9


### want to hear from everyone who has signed up to 10



### speak. 11


### Thanks again for taking the time to be 12



### here today to share your co mments. Now let's get 13



### started. 14



### So we'll start with the first two 15



### speakers, Bryan Palko and Brad Marshall. You 16



### want to come to the table at the front. Mr. 17



### Palko, when you're ready. 18


### MR. PALKO: Good morning. My name is 19



### Brian Palko, B

- r

- y

- a

- n, P

- a

- l

- k

- o, and I live in 20


### Morgantown, West Virginia. I'm a member of 21



### United Mine Workers of American, Local 2300, and 22

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### I'm employed at Cumberland Mine. I'm also a 1


### fourth generation union coal miner. 2


### I want you all to think about something. 3


### We're sitting on the single largest energy source 4


### in the world. In this country there's more 5



### recoverable coal than there is oil in Saudi 6



### Arabia. 7


### We have the ability to achieve something 8


### everyone in this nation has talked about for 9


### decades, energy independence. But instead of 10


### applying with the innovation and technology that 11


### this country has always championed in utilizing 12


### this resource, the EPA has decided drastically to 13


### reduce coal production. It really does make me 14


### wonder if the agency and some others in this 15



### country have just decided that we're no longer 16


### smart enough or capable enough to accomplish such 17



### goals. 18


### While part of me wants to believe that it 19


### can't be true, the rule does appear to signal you 20



### believe it. 21

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### How is it possible that we can be so 1



### short

- sided ? We hav e the energy resource to 2


### continue to provide cheap and efficient power, 3


### yet we throw it all away for hope and a prayer. 4


### We hope that other countries will follow our lead 5


### and eliminate their own efforts to achieve energy 6


### independence. We pray that someday we will be 7


### able to stop investing huge sums of taxpayer 8


### dollars to subsidize wind and solar energy. 9


### This policy will simply not be 10


### sustainable when fully implemented. No one can 11


### tell what the actual impact will be on the power 12


### grid that cannot react to immediate increased 13



### power needs on a lower scale. 14



### It is certain wind and solar cannot meet 15


### any of these instantaneous demands. What would 16



### we do when these events present themselves? Who 17


### will decide which home, business, or hospital is 18


### permitted to ope rate while others are caught 19


### without electricity. 20



### If we continue to travel down this road 21


### towards energy deficiency, somebody had better 22

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### written another rule to determine power 1


### rationing. 2


### This is an extremely important issue that 3



### must be discussed. The time for that discussion 4


### must be now because if the government is hell 5


### bent on taking our country down this path, we 6



### must prepare for the consequences. Once the coal 7


### mines in this great nation are shut down by your 8


### plan, they are gone for generations to c ome. 9


### They cannot be opened and closed on a whim. 10



### As electric rates increase and demands 11


### exceed supply, there will be no reserve capacity, 12


### no generator, or turbine to make up the 13



### difference. In all the excitement and fanfare of 14


### crafting and releasing thi s rule, it does not 15


### appear there was much consideration given to 16



### these facts. Yet decided with these realities, 17


### it still appears that the EPA still intends to 18


### push ahead, relying, as I said before, on a hope 19



### and prayer. 20


### While I do have faith in the power of 21


### prayer, it doesn't give me much comfort in 22

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### relying on other countries to follow our strict 1


### environmental leads. Nor does the thought that 2



### what should be some of the smartest minds in this 3


### country have abandoned the American spirit of 4



### innovation and se ttled on such fatal plan. 5


### I really do wish I knew when that 6


### happened, when we decided we could no longer 7


### solve difficult problems and make our nation 8


### better without putting large numbers of its 9



### citizens at risk. 10


### Thank you for your time. God bless. 11



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Mr. 12



### Marshall? 13


### MR. MARSHALL: Good morning. My name is 14



### Brad Marshal l, B

- r

- a

- d, M

- a

- r

- s

- h

- a

- l

- l. I live 15


### in Washington County, Pennsylvania here. I'm a 16



### member of MWA, Local 2300. 17


### I'm not here to argue with anyone about 18



### the sc ience the EPA has used to determine that 19


### weather patterns are not changing, or if the 20


### temperature of the Earth is fluctuating. It is 21


### not my intent to sit here and argue that changes 22

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### are not occurring. I'm not as many (sic) who may 1


### disagree with this regu latory policy or label by 2


### its proponents and deny Earth science. 3



### When it comes to clean water, clean air, 4


### and a safe environment for my children and 5


### grandchildren to grow up in, my hope is no 6


### different than anyone else. They have a right to 7



### expect that t he place they decide to call home, 8



### no matter where that is, allows them the 9


### opportunity that other generations have enjoyed. 10


### We all have an obligation to ensure that 11



### we do all we can to make sure they have every 12


### chance at a healthy and prosperous life. I do 13



### not doubt for one minute that that is the sincere 14


### goal of everyone testifying here today. 15


### This issue does propose extremely 16


### difficult problems. Like many of the people I 17


### know and work with, I have listened for years to 18


### the raging debate about climate change and the 19



### need to address this issue. 20


### The question in my mind is not whether we 21


### need to find a solution to the problem because I 22

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### think we can all agree that we do. Rather, the 1


### question is, will the path we take today correct 2



### the problems. Excus e me. Will the path we take 3


### today correct the problem, really achieve the 4


### goals we are hoping it will. I can't see that 5


### what we are doing with this policy will 6


### accomplish that goal. The mining industry, where 7


### I've made a living for many years, will be p ut 8


### out of business. The job losses at the mine will 9


### affect everyone in the community. I don't mean 10


### just coal miners, but I mean truckers, railroad 11


### workers, equipment manufacturers, utility 12


### workers, and anyone connected to the mines will 13



### be unemployed. 14



### N ow, that may not seem like a big deal to 15


### some people, and some may look at it as just the 16


### price others have to pay, but we need to remember 17


### these are good paying jobs in communities that 18


### offer few other good paying jobs. 19



### We need to be honest about a coupl e other 20


### things too. First, the new jobs you're saying 21


### will be created as a result of your actions are 22

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### really just your best hope. You don't really 1


### know if they will be or not. In the meantime, 2


### you're trashing my job, and, worse, even if there 3



### were any n ew jobs created, they sure won't be in 4


### a coal field where I live. So you will have 5


### really limited any chance of economic security 6


### for the next generation and large parts in the 7



### country. 8


### Secondly, while we eliminate these 9


### industries and the jobs that are here today in 10



### order less emissions, there will be no real 11


### improvement on a global scale. Other countries 12


### will continue to build coal fire power plants, 13


### many without any of the environmental technology 14


### required in the United States. 15



### The situation could become, a nd based on 16


### the action other nations are taking today, will 17


### become progressively worse. 18


### In closing, I just need to point out that 19


### while I don't deny we need to take action that 20


### will have a positive impact on the problem, 21

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### others shouldn't deny the fact that this policy 1



### is not the solution. 2


### Thank you for your time. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, gentlemen. 4


### Any questions , P anelists? No? Thank you 5



### both very much. 6


### MR. MARSHALL: I appreciate it. Have a 7



### good day. 8



### MR. KOERBER: I'd like to call Levi Allen 9



### and Tim Merr y man. Mr. Allen, when you're ready. 10



### MR. ALLEN: I'm Levi Allen. That's L

- e

11



### v

- I, A

- l

- l

- e

- n. I'm a coal miner employed at 12


### Marshall County Mine, Marshall County Coal 13


### Company. I'm the president of the United Mine 14



### Workers of America, Loc al union 1638. 15


### I've worked in the mine for seven years. 16



### I'm a certified electrician at the mine, and I'm 17


### pleased to offer this testified today to you all. 18


### Thank you for the opportunity. 19


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 20


### MR. ALLEN: The policy the Envir onmental 21


### Protection Agency is about to impose on the 22

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### mining industry will have a catastrophic impact, 1


### not only on the mine where I work, but it will 2


### also have a ripple affect across the community 3


### where I live, and all without the slightest 4



### assurance that i t will have any impact on climate 5



### change. 6



### For the miners and their families, the 7


### EPA's decision to push the ill

- advised rule 8


### forward will destroy any chance we have of 9


### maintaining a self

- sufficient middle class 10


### family. With the mere stroke of a pen and t he 11


### unrealistic hope that others in the world will 12



### follow

-- or will play follow the leader on the 13


### issue of climate change, we're destroying of good 14


### paying industrial jobs in this country. 15


### This is about my job. This is about my 16


### family. This is about my l ife. I didn’t choose 17


### to work in the coal industry because I didn't 18


### have any other choice. I choose this profession 19


### because it affords me the opportunity to live a 20


### stable and secure life. It pays my mortgage. It 21


### feeds and clothes my family, and it provi des 22

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### medical benefits and helps to sustain the 1


### community where I live, small town in northern 2


### West Virginia. 3


### I'm as proud as what I do for a living as 4


### I am humbled by the opportunity to do it to 5


### support my family. I see daily the positive 6


### impact that my j ob has on the lives of those 7


### close to me, and the impact that it has on the 8


### others that benefit from my job at the mine. 9


### So now, just as we young miners are 10


### becoming reliable self

- sustaining members of our 11



### communities, we've decided to end our careers, 12



### an d while pursuing this agenda, there really is 13


### nothing in return. There are no other employment 14


### options in that area, no way to pay the bills, no 15


### future for my family and community. This 16


### dismantling of the coal industry will accomplish, 17


### without any guaran tee that the Clean Power Plan 18



### will work

-- it may have no effect on the problem 19


### it is designed to fix, and the action shows utter 20


### indifference to the socioeconomic catastrophe it 21



### will create. 22

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### It may seem wise to the agency and even 1



### each of you to roll the dice in the hopes that 2


### other nations will follow suit and apply the same 3


### unilateral approach to a global problem, but we 4


### should all face the reality that such events, 5



### they generally don't happen. It may be easy to 6


### gamble with my job and the future of my family, 7



### but I can't take that risk. 8


### The EPA needs to rethink this on a global 9


### scale while still looking at the people it will 10


### devastate at home. This superfluous policy is 11


### not the solution we need. The cure you are 12


### proposing is certainly worse than th e disease. 13


### I'm going to leave you with some food for 14


### thought. Yesterday I heard testimony regarding

- 15



### - from a veteran in our Navy, and I appreciate 16


### all the service that he has given. He talked 17


### about the national security of our country based 18



### on the effe cts of climate change and all the 19


### socioeconomic problems it will cause whenever 20



### cultures clash and people are moved from one area 21

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### in these outlining third worlds and things like 1


### that to other parts in this major culture clash. 2


### What's going to happen when we're all 3



### uprooted, and we all have to move? We have the 4



### same culture clash? I mean, it's different in 5


### Appalachia than it is in California and so on and 6



### so forth. It's

-- there's two sides to every 7



### coin. 8


### I appreciate your time. Thank you. 9



### MR. KOERBE R: Thank you, sir. 10



### Mr. Merryman. 11


### MR. MERRYMAN: Good morning. My name is 12


### Timothy Merriman, M

- e

- r

- r

- y

- m

- a

- n. I'm vice 13


### president of UMWA Local Union 1473. I work for 14


### American Energy, the Ohio County Mine. 15


### Some of the concerns I wish to express 16


### during my testimony today will obviously be 17


### familiar to you. First of all, I must point out 18


### that calling this policy the Clean Power Plan 19



### cannot be further from the truth. The fact of 20


### the matter is it will do nothing on a global 21



### scale to reduce emissions. Beli eving that a 22

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### policy will be accepted by others who are, as we 1


### speak, building hundreds of coal

- fired power 2


### plants naive at best. 3


### There is, however, one thing this rule 4


### will do more efficiently than any other 5


### government plan I can think of, it will elimina te 6


### thousands of good paying jobs. Jobs that also 7


### include health benefits, pensions, security. 8


### Jobs that give entire communities financial 9


### security. 10



### Let there be no mistake, when the rule is 11


### fully implemented, over 64,000 jobs in coal 12


### mining, utility, an d railroad industries will be 13


### gone forever, but that's only the beginning of 14


### the devastation. When you add jobs that depend 15


### on mining to survive, railroads, truckers, 16


### equipment manufacturers, engineers, and others, 17



### more than 208,000 workers and their fami lies will 18


### be affected. This job killing policy will reach 19


### well beyond the coal fields and cripple 20



### manufacturers across the nation. 21

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### I do realize that there are those who 1


### will argue that this policy will create jobs. I 2


### think some of them actually b elieve it. These 3



### are the same problems as we heard when the 4


### electronics industries, plastics manufacturers, 5



### and even toy manufacturers fled the country. 6


### Forgive me if I don’t believe your vision of the 7



### post

- coal energy and industrial base. 8



### I must believ e that if the job creation 9


### you're claiming will happen, it should already be 10


### happening now. 11



### Industries that are viable and efficient 12


### do not rely on the imposed destruction of their 13


### competitors to begin operating. But isn't that 14



### the real problem here? In reality, you have, for 15


### whatever reason, chosen sides and picked winners, 16


### but your winners cannot compete on a level 17


### playing field. So you have written a rule to 18


### change the dynamics of the situation. 19


### Miners and other workers are unemployed, 20



### their industr y slashed, and those who could not 21


### otherwise compete are the ones left standing. I 22

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### cannot believe that my own government would 1


### eliminate my job. 2


### These governmental engineering sounds 3


### like something that happens in third world 4


### countries or by communist re gimes, not United 5



### States of America. If your goal all along has 6


### been to dismantle the coal industry, then 7


### congratulations, you're well on your way. Thank 8



### you. 9



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both 10


### for your very passionate testimony. I appreciate 11



### you being here today. 12



### MR. MERRYMAN: Thank you. 13



### MR. KOERBER: Next I'd like to call Ron 14



### Jones and Adam Hartley. 15



### Mr. Jones, when you're ready. 16


### MR. JONES: Good morning. My name is Ron 17



### Jones, R

- o

- n, J

- o

- n

- e

- s. And thank you for the 18


### opportunity to addres s this panel. 19


### I'm a coal miner employed at the Ohio 20


### Valley Coal Company in the United Mine Workers, 21



### Local 1810. 22

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### I've worked in the mine for 10 years and 1


### am currently a mine examiner. I've also 2


### performed numerous jobs at the mine during that 3



### time. Wh ile the work can be difficult and 4



### dangerous, I'm fortunate that my career has been 5


### relatively injury

- free. And as usually the case, 6


### I have suffered a few minor injuries, but nothing 7


### that's limited my ability to work and provide for 8


### my family. 9


### The mining career I choose has permitted 10


### me to purchase a home, raise a family, and be a 11


### stable hardworking member of my community. My 12


### job is one of the highest paying and has some of 13


### the best benefits in the area. It not only 14


### supports my lifestyle but helps build a tax base 15


### that provides critical services to my friends and 16


### neighbors. 17


### Necessary community services, like the 18


### fire department, emergency medical services, the 19


### local hospital, and the school systems in the 20


### coal fields depends on these jobs to survive. 21


### The corner grocery and gas station will not 22

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### survive if these jobs disappear from my 1


### community. I don't really think most of the 2


### people who worked on this rule understand the 3


### impact where I live. 4


### The years of hard work and sacrifice I 5



### have made will, if my mine remains open, secure a 6


### pension and healthcare benefits when I retire. I 7


### realize that may be some years down the road, but 8


### it's a goal we all hope to reach. Yet, the rule 9


### you are proposing will allow all these things to 10


### slip away based on a risky policy that appears 11


### more likely to cause greater harm than produce 12



### much good. 13


### There is no indication that the problem 14


### the EPA is claiming to address by this action 15


### will result in any positive impact for anybody. 16


### However, one thing is absolutely clear. T his 17


### action will impact what I and other miners in the 18


### industry are working for. It will destroy my job 19


### immediately and my hope of a pension and 20



### healthcare in the future. 21

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### How can we be so short

- sided? How can we 1


### destroy an industry that's provided ene rgy and 2


### industrial power for hundreds of years without 3


### risking the future of our nation, while other 4


### nations are increasing their coal usage? 5


### In closing, I do need to state for the 6


### record that while the EPA may feel an obligation 7


### to push this reckless pla n forward, it does not 8


### have the right to destroy the lives of so many 9


### people. Neither this agency nor any other will 10


### be there to pick up the pieces when thousands of 11


### lives are shattered, and when I, and my fellow 12



### miners, and our families are confronted wi th the 13


### reality that this rule has eliminated our future. 14



### Thank you. 15


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 16



### Mr. Hartley? 17


### MR. HARTLEY: Good morning. My name is 18



### Adam Hartley, H

- a

- r

- t

- l

- e

- y . I live in 19


### Shadyside, Ohio. I'm a proud member of Local 20



### Union 1638 for UMWA. I work at the Marshall 21


### County Mine. 22

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### I'd like to thank you for the opportunity 1


### to offer testimony on how the plan you have put 2


### together will impact coalfield communities across 3


### this country. 4


### During this hearing you have heard from 5



### people about the terrible consequences of this 6


### proposed policy on miners and their families. The 7


### impact on all these individuals cannot be 8



### understated. We also need to look at the 9


### rippling effect the clean energy plan will have 10


### on the community where these people live. T he 11


### immediate job loss for the miners, equipment 12


### manufacturers, truckers, railroaders, utility 13



### workers, electrical workers, vendors, and other 14


### related workers are still just the beginning of 15



### the decline. 16


### Many of these coalfield communities rely 17



### on the inco me and healthcare benefits miners and 18


### their families spend at the local businesses to 19


### thrive. The loss of wages to workers and pension 20



### benefits to retired families will send shockwaves 21

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### through thousands of local businesses and 1


### important public institution s. 2



### The elimination of the healthcare 3


### benefits as a result of this will place 4


### significant hardships on healthcare provides, 5


### from doctors and clinics to pharmacies and 6


### community hospitals. The severity of the damage 7


### to the people who provide these servic es, and 8


### therefore the broader community, may not seem 9


### obvious at first, but they will be the inevitable 10



### result. 11


### It may not seem rational to some that a 12


### federal policy can have such a fundamental impact 13


### on a given town, but for those who cannot 14



### understand this, I would invite them to visit the 15


### communities that I'm talking about. These small 16


### towns in the coalfields are unique. 17



### In many respects, we are fortunate to 18



### come from these small towns where everyone knows 19



### everyone else. These are places where pe ople 20


### actually do look out for their neighbors, where 21


### generations of families live within walking 22

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### distance of one another. They teach us the 1


### importance of family, friends, and community. At 2


### the same time, they are, as they have been for 3



### more than a centur y, relying on the coal industry 4


### to sustain their way of life, an industry that, 5


### by the nature of the product it provides, exists 6



### in the halls and hills of rural American towns. 7



### These communities thrive because of the 8



### men and women that

-- the industry and the coal 9



### they produce. They are fundamentally taught 10



### together. It should be apparent when you destroy 11


### the one, you do irreparable harm to the other. 12



### These communities are home to countless 13



### men and women who fueled the industrial 14


### revolution, helped win two World Wars, and 15


### continue to energize a power hungry nation, and 16


### now, without any assurances that what you're 17


### proposing will have any meaningful impact on 18


### carbon emissions, you're willing to destroy their 19



### lives, our lives. 20


### Certainly we are smarter than this. 21


### Surely we not only see the problem but still have 22

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### the ingenuity and expertise to use this nation's 1


### most abundant energy resource efficiently. Thank 2



### you. 3



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you, 4


### gentleman for being here today. 5



### See, I operate off thes e cards, and when 6


### they give me the cards, I can call names. I 7


### don't have any more cards. So Diana just went to 8



### go grab some more cards. Thanks for your 9


### patience. 10



### Do we have others in the room who did 11


### sign up to speak? Yeah. Okay. So the cards are 12



### so mewhere. They'll be here momentarily. Thanks. 13



### I have a card. We can start. 14


### I'd like to call Nicole Dillingham and 15



### Nicholas Goodfellow. 16


### Ms. Dillingham, when you're ready. 17



### MS. DILLINGHAM: Thank you. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 19



### MS. DILLINGHAM: Good mo rning. My name 20


### is Nicole Dillingham. I am here from 21



### Cooperstown, New York. 22

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### We live in a very historic and beautiful 1


### region. We're home to the Baseball Hall of Fame, 2



### which this week is well known after the induction 3



### ceremonies. But we're also headwa ters of the 4


### Susquehanna River. We are

-- our lake, Lake 5


### Oswego, has been written about by James Fenimore 6


### Cooper, and any contamination in that region 7


### impacts the entire eastern seaboard. 8


### So we are grateful that the EPA is trying 9


### to tackle climate chang e. We think it's critical 10



### that this be done, but we are concerned that the 11


### actual plan put forward misleads the American 12


### public. It is sold to the American public as 13


### being a great panacea; that it will reduce the 14



### cost of climate disaster, reduce the cost of 15


### health impacts, improve the environment. 16


### I think your plan

-- your fact sheets 17


### projects up to $93 billion in savings by 2030, 18


### and we don't think there's any support for that 19


### conclusion. In fact, as I think you know, your 20


### plan on covers carbon diox ide emissions. It 21



### doesn't cover methane and other problems, and it 22

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### actually has the unintended or perhaps intended 1


### consequence of converting what is basically a 2


### coal fire economy and energy economy to one 3



### largely dependent on natural gas. 4



### And the extr action of natural gas, in the 5


### way it is being done now, will ultimately destroy 6


### all of the economic benefits that you now suggest 7


### will be possible if we shift from coal to natural 8


### gas, and this is a very serious problem because 9


### if what you do is destroy th e jobs and the 10


### communities based on a theory that this will save 11


### the American consumer money and will improve the 12


### risks of climate disaster. You may be wrong, and 13


### you really need to look at what will happen if we 14



### go to a natural gas economy. 15



### Now, I kno w that you are potentially 16


### planning to regulate methane emissions too, but 17


### this goes well beyond just methane emissions. 18


### Hydraulic fracturing is one of the most dangerous 19


### processes of extracting a fossil fuel as can be 20


### imagined. 21

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### In my community in ups tate New York, and 1



### this would cover about half of New York state, it 2



### actually would cover about half of our country, 3


### the industry wants to put a well pad every square 4


### mile, every square mile with 12 wells per well 5



### pad, each well to be fracked and refracked over 6



### 60 years; and each frack cycle consumes seven 7


### million gallons of fresh water mixed with 8


### carcinogenic chemicals. We have no place to 9


### dispose of the carcinogenic wastes. Right now 10


### they're being put into our rivers and lakes, or 11


### they're being injected underground where they 12


### cause earthquakes. So you are potentially 13


### unleashing a very dramatic, perhaps cataclysmic 14


### environmental problem in the name of saving us 15


### from an environmental problem. 16


### And there's one other major way in which 17


### your plan misleads th e American public, and that 18


### is, I think you state in your fact sheet that by 19


### 2030 utility bills would be down by about eight 20



### percent ; and that's because you're assuming in 21


### your plan that the cost of natural gas will 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### remain relatively stable. But we know t hat our 1


### country is planning to export natural gas. 2


### They're planning to liquefy it and send it as far 3


### away as the Ukraine. They're certainly planning 4


### to send it anywhere they can overseas. The 5


### prices overseas are five times what they are in 6



### our country. So this will not lead to any kind 7


### of benefit to our utility rate payers. 8


### So I think the time really has come that 9



### we as a country must look at renewables. We have 10


### delayed this. We don’t want to hurt communities, 11


### but we can't substitute one dirty fossil fuel for 12


### another. And if that's all we're doing, then we 13


### really should retire from this business. It 14


### simply doesn't make sense. 15


### Thank you very much for the opportunity 16



### to speak to you today. 17


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, Ms. Dillingham. 18



### Mr. Goodfellow? 19



### M R. GOODFELLOW: Good morning. My name 20



### is Nicholas Goodfellow, N

- i

- c

- h

- o

- l

- a

- s. Sorry. 21



### MR. KOERBER: That's okay. 22

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### MR. GOODFELLOW: Goodfellow, G

- o

- o

- d

- f

- e

1



### l

- l

- o

- w. 2


### I'm a student at the University of 3


### Pittsburgh here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, a 4



### board member of the student environmental group 5


### Free the Planet, and a manager in the music 6


### industry for an artist named Ri Ri (phonetic). 7


### Thank you for this opportunity to speak 8


### in front of you today on this plan, which 9


### proposes the most significant action to address 10


### global warming, which we now know is the greatest 11



### threat to life and civilization as we know it. 12


### The proposal you've set forward is a 13



### long

- awaited, and I greet it with as warm a 14


### welcome as one might expect from a mother in 15


### labor whose spouse final ly arrives in the 16


### delivery room almost too late. It's great that 17


### you were able to make it, but we could have used 18


### you here a little earlier. 19



### As of June 2014, for the first time, the 20


### concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide has 21



### broken through the 400 p arts per million mark. 22

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### The goal of achieving 300 parts per million, the 1


### upper safety limit for atmospheric C0 2 

### f eels 2



### further and further away. 3


### Studies by NASA and the University of 4


### Washington looking at the ice shoots of western 5



### Antarctica both conclude that the collapse of the 6


### Western Antarctic ice sheet is already underway 7


### and is unstoppable. The glaciers retreat is 8


### being driven by climate change and could 9


### eventually cause up to 13 feet of sea level rise 10



### at a much faster rate than scientists had 11



### antici pated. 12


### As a student, I'm constantly thinking 13


### about my future. I'll be graduating next spring, 14


### so I often get the question, "What do you want to 15


### do after you graduate?" I literally got that 16


### question on the bus this morning. Of course, I 17



### have absolutely n o idea what I want to do after I 18


### graduate, and even if I did know what I wanted to 19


### do, I would probably have a hard time finding a 20


### job. Regardless, when I think of my future and 21


### what it will be like when I'm in my 30s, or 40s, 22

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### or dare I say my 50s, my fir st thought is about 1



### what the world will be like then. 2


### Because of climate change, Pennsylvania 3


### is predicted to have a climate similar to 4


### Georgia's. Part of my hometown, Washington, DC, 5


### is likely to be permanently submerged by rising 6


### seas, and my family in California may have to 7



### abandon their homes because there's no more 8


### water. This latter scenario is already taking 9


### shape in California. US Drought Monitor reported 10


### yesterday that more than half of the state is now 11


### experiencing exceptional drought, which is only 12


### expected to continue. 13


### My future is one where I am forced to 14



### consider what

-- excuse me. My future is one 15


### where I am forced to consider that I will likely 16


### face challenges accessing food or water as easily 17


### as it's assessable today. 18


### Climate change poses a threat to food 19


### security, national security, and water 20


### availability. Climate change really is a threat 21


### to everything we know, and my hopes and my dreams 22

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### for a happy, healthy, stable future for myself, 1


### my Americans

-- my fellow Americans, and 2



### every body else in the world. 3



### These steps you've proposed are great, 4


### and thank you for taking them, but I urge you to 5


### keep pushing forward. It may not seem like you 6


### have the people behind you at times, but you do. 7


### Public pooling has found that 64 percent of 8



### A mericans believe the government should limit 9


### greenhouse gas emissions from existing power 10


### plans to address climate change and improve 11


### public health. This is an especially relevant 12


### figure for Pittsburgh and the Appalachia region 13


### because with our higher con centration of coal

14


### fired power plants, we are expected to see the 15


### largest decrease in fine particulate matter that 16



### cause asthma, cancer, lung damage, and premature 17



### death. 18



### I was at the protest yesterday, and I 19



### noticed that while both of us, both sides, mig ht 20



### each see each other as different, at the end of 21


### the day, we all want the same thing. Our signs 22

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### both read good stable jobs and policies that 1



### e nsure a bright future for our children. Those 2


### are the signs that we were all carrying, 3


### regardless of which sid e of the protest we were 4



### on. 5



### The people who you should be angry at are 6


### the politicians and industry executives who use 7


### their money and power to misinform, deceive, and 8


### profit from all of our losses while at the same 9


### time pitting us losers, the general pub lic, 10


### against one another. Instead of focusing on 11


### realistic solutions to the challenges facing 12


### communities depending on coal production, leaders 13


### such as West Virginia Governor Earl Ray Tomblin 14


### and Pennsylvania Governor Tom Corbett are playing 15


### political gam es with us. Both claim to support 16



### coworkers and shift the blame from themselves to 17


### easy targets like President Obama, when it's the 18



### residents and constituents of their states which 19


### are losing jobs. It's their responsibility to 20



### help them. 21

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### It's people lik e Governor Tom Corbett 1


### that is your biggest threat. He's allowed for 2


### natural gas to become the most serious 3


### competition to coal. 4


### The fact is, we know how important you 5


### are. You've powered America through the good 6



### times and the bad, and we wouldn’t be th e great 7


### nation that we are today if it weren't for the 8



### hard work, sacrifice, and the lives that were 9


### lost on the job. 10


### What nobody is saying is that we want you 11


### to stop powering the nation. We want you to 12


### continue powering the nation. You obviously t ake 13


### great pride in your service, as I saw yesterday, 14


### but I wonder what it would be like if your jobs 15



### were safe, clean, and for a sustainable future. 16


### Thank you, again, for the opportunity to 17


### testify in support of the Clean Power Plan. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. Thank you both, 19


### and thanks to all of you being so courteous and 20



### respectful to all of our speakers. I do 21


### appreciate it. 22

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### Next I'd like to call Beth Anne Mumford 1


### and Dennis Yablonsky. 2



### Ms. Mumford, when you're ready. 3



### MS. MUMFORD: Great. I'm Bet h Anne 4



### Mumford, B

- e

- t

- h, space, A

- n

- n

- e. Mumford is M

5



### u

- m

- f

- o

- r

- d. 6


### So thank you for the opportunity to speak 7



### today. I'm the s tate d irector of Americans for 8


### Prosperity Pennsylvania. We're the nation's 9


### foremost free market advocacy group with more 10



### than two million nationwide, more than 120,000 11


### activists here in Pennsylvania. 12


### We're committed to promoting energy 13


### policies that provide reliable and affordable 14


### energy for all Americans. I'm testifying against 15


### the Administration's new EPA proposal, which 16



### wou ld impose devastating new limits on carbon 17


### emissions, contribute to higher energy costs here 18


### in Pennsylvania and around the country and 19


### further hamstring job creation and economic 20


### growth, which is something we all need, both in 21



### our states and across the co untry. 22

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### Although the EPA regulations call for a 1


### 30 percent cut in emissions by 2030, these new 2


### rules would impose different reduction 3


### requirements for each state with the new mandate 4


### falling more heavily on certain states than 5



### others. 6


### Pennsylvania will fa ce one of the largest 7


### reductions in carbon emissions, 31.7 percent of 8



### 2012 levels, and that will have a far

- reaching 9


### negative impact on Pennsylvania businesses and 10


### working families. These new rules will require 11


### Pennsylvania to either join a regional cap a nd 12


### trade program, coal plants to buy expensive 13


### retrofitting equipment, or for them to shut down 14


### entirely. This would certainly increase the cost 15


### of energy producers, which will inevitably be 16


### passed on to energy consumers in the form of 17


### higher prices. 18


### Energy production, as you know, is one of 19


### Pennsylvania's most important industries, not 20


### only for the jobs it creates but for the nation 21


### as a whole. In 2012, Pennsylvania produced over 22

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### 54 million short tons of coal, which ranked the 1


### fourth highest in the n ation. Equally important, 2


### Pennsylvania is the only state which produces 3


### anthracite coal, which has a higher heat value 4



### than other kinds of coal. 5


### Similarly, natural gas production has 6


### also boomed in Pennsylvania, increasing 72 7



### percent from 2011 to 2012. In 2012, Pennsylvania 8


### produced more than 2.2 trillion cubic feet of 9


### natural gas of energy, ranking third nationally. 10


### These sectors produce many high paying jobs for 11


### Pennsylvania families with mining accounting for 12


### over 34,000 jobs and average pay of over $80,000 13


### for extraction and support staff roles. 14


### Pennsylvania doesn't simply rely on 15


### mining these natural resources, however. We have 16



### 30 power plants that generate nearly 40 percent 17


### of their electricity from coal and 34 percent 18



### from natural gas. We rank third among the states 19


### in terms of coal use and sixth in natural gas 20


### usage. This production also provides jobs to 21


### more than 32,000 people in the utility sector 22

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### with a median salary of over $100,000, twice the 1


### median income of the average Pennsylvania fami ly. 2


### Coal and natural gas remain the most cost 3


### effective and reliable options for electricity 4


### generation in the state while employing 5


### employment to thousands of Pennsylvanians. 6


### Even if businesses energy demands remains 7


### constant in the coming years, the price to 8


### produce goods and services will increase as the 9


### price of energy increases under these new 10


### regulations. Increased costs for businesses 11


### means fewer resources to hire new employees, 12


### provide pay raises, or expand and produce 13


### additional jobs; that wil l inevitably mean slower 14


### economic growth, fewer jobs, and lower wages as 15


### businesses are forced to divert an increasing 16


### percentage of their resources to pay their energy 17



### bills. 18


### This really is a family budget issue here 19


### in Pennsylvania. The interference in 20


### Pennsylvania's power generation has caused prices 21


### to rise substantially already. Electricity 22

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### prices have already increased 35 percent since 1


### 2005, putting strains on family budgets. This is 2


### due in part to Pennsylvania's gross receipt tax 3



### and electrici ty generators, the only type of this 4



### tax in the nation. Higher electricity bills are 5


### bad news for struggling Pennsylvania families, 6



### and the most vulnerable families will be the 7



### hardest hit. 8


### The median Pennsylvania family already 9


### spends roughly $1,700 o f their disposable income 10


### on residential energy and costs, a s stated, are 11


### quickly rising. With these new regulations, 12


### costs will further increase significantly, 13


### leaving families with less money in their pockets 14


### for essentials like school supplies, healthc are, 15


### and groceries. 16


### Even worse, higher energy prices 17


### disproportionately affect those who can least 18


### afford it, those who are struggling the most in 19


### this struggling economy. Those earning between 20


### $10,000 and $30,000 per year will, on average, 21

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### spend almost 10 percent of their disposable 1


### income on their residential energy needs. 2


### Just in conclusion, the regulations on 3


### carbon will have a devastating effect on the 4


### Pennsylvania economy and its residents . Given 5


### the high cost to Pennsylvania and America at 6



### large, AFP strongly supports preventing the 7


### implementation of these regulations. 8



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 9



### MS. MUMFORD: Thank you. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Mr. Yablonsky. 11



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 12


### My name is Dennis Yablonsky. That's 13



### spelled Y

- a

- b

- l

- o

- n

- s

- k

- y. I' m the CEO at the 14


### Allegheny Conference on Community Development, an 15


### organization that for 70 years now has been 16


### working to improve sustainable prosperity and 17


### quality of life in the Pittsburgh region. 18


### One of the keys to achieving those goals 19



### here, and I bel ieve across the country, is 20


### maintaining a stable electric grid that delivers 21


### reliable and affordable power. But the 22

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### electricity service that we take for granted is 1


### under stress from market dynamics, from 2


### inadequate transmission infrastructure, from too 3



### fe w new power plants that we need for supply, and 4


### new federal regulations. 5



### Unfortunately, the federal government 6


### does not have a plan to ensure the stability of 7


### the grid. Instead, it has taken a series of 8


### piecemeal and ad hoc actions without a complete 9



### und erstanding of how they all interact together 10


### and impact the grid. 11


### This winter proved how vulnerable our 12


### electrical supply has become. PJM Interconnect 13


### is the group that oversees the wholesale electric 14


### grid in Pennsylvania and all or parts of 12 other 15



### s tates plus the District of Columbia. It 16


### coordinates electricity delivery to meet the 17


### needs of 60 million people. They've got nearly 18


### 1,400 generating sources that can produce 186,000 19


### megawatts of power. And in January, PJM came 20


### within roughly 900 megawat ts

-- that's less than 21

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### 1 percent of the total capacity

-- of running out 1


### of the electricity that was demanded. 2



### Nicholas Akins, the CEO of American 3


### Electric Power testified to the Senate in April 4


### that 89 percent of the coal fire plants that they 5



### planned t o shut down next year were needed by PJM 6


### during January's polar vortex. AEP has been 7


### sounding the alarm about reliability of the grid 8



### for several years now. 9


### Now, natural gas is supposed to take 10


### coal's place, but in January when gas fire 11


### generation was ne eded, many power stations 12



### couldn't get any gas fuel because the gas 13


### companies were diverting the gas to homes and 14


### hospitals to keep people warm. 15



### Together coal, natural gas, and nuclear 16



### power account for 85 percent of the country's 17


### electricity generation, and all three sectors are 18



### under stress. Today's focus and yesterday's 19


### focus is on federal regulations that would 20


### ultimately reduce coal usage, but at the same 21


### time new nuclear power plants are almost 22

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### impossible to build in this country; and new 1



### federal re gs in that area can make it 2


### uneconomical for existing nuclear plants to keep 3


### operating. 4



### There's also other federal action 5


### underway in other areas of the government that 6


### would make natural gas extraction more difficult. 7



### So where are we supposed to get the electricity 8



### that we need? 9


### Solar and wind certainly are and have to 10


### be a part of the portfolio, but they don't yet 11


### have the utility storage technology that's 12


### necessary to provide a base load of power; and 13


### meanwhile, conditions continue to get worse. 14



### In W isconsin, for example, market 15



### distortion has resulted in the Kewaunee Nuclear 16


### Power Plant having to pay the transmission system 17



### to take the power that they produce, pay. And so 18


### the plan owner, what did they do? They shut it 19



### down 20 years ahead of schedul e and in the 20


### process wiped out five percent of the state's 21


### electricity supply. The Kewaunee shutdown and 22

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### the potential for dozens of others like it to 1


### follow is a trend that we're clearly very, very 2


### concerned about, not according to me, according 3



### the Depa rtment of Energy's Assistant Secretary of 4



### Nuclear Energy, Dr. Peter Lyons. 5


### This country's course on the electric 6


### grid is unsustainable. You have and will 7


### continue to hear a lot about how these proposed 8


### regulations will increase costs to consumers, and 9



### th at's probably correct. 10


### But the bigger problem, from our 11


### perspective, is that we're on a course where 12


### customers may find that they can't get 13


### electricity at any price, and that's not an 14


### exaggeration. While on PJM, we came very close, 15



### as I testified duri ng the polar vortex, to 16


### running out of electricity and South Carolina at 17


### the same time. Hospitals, schools, and tens of 18


### thousands of customers were subject to rolling 19


### blackouts because there wasn't enough of a margin 20



### when cold weather took out three of th eir power 21



### plants. 22

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### Now, the current rules aren't set up to 1


### provide adequate return to electric companies to 2


### build enough generation to maintain a margin. So 3


### given the various regulations at the federal, 4



### state, and local level on the construction on 5



### some p ipelines, on transmission lines, projects 6



### take years to complete, and there's no way to 7


### jumpstart the process. The result is by the time 8


### this problem that I'm highlighting is obvious, it 9


### will take years to solve it, and you can't 10


### maintain a modern economy or society under those 11



### conditions. 12


### As Evan Bayh, former Democratic Governor 13


### and Senator from Indiana put it in a nuclear 14


### energy forum in Philadelphia in May, "We're 15


### sleepwalking into our energy future, and we can't 16



### afford to do that." 17



### So on behalf of the Allegheny Conference, 18


### the Greater Pittsburgh Chamber of Commerce, and 19


### our members, I'm asking the president to stop ad 20


### hoc regulation and changes to the electrical 21


### system, to appoint a task force with 22

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### representatives from the EPA, Department of 1



### Energy , the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, the 2


### Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, plus 3


### regional transmission operators, electric 4


### generator companies, and others to develop a 5


### comprehensive, integrated cross

- functional 6


### national grid policy and an action plan th at will 7



### help to ensure an adequate, affordable, and 8


### reliable electric grid. 9


### Thank you for the opportunity to testify 10


### here this morning. 11


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir, and thank 12



### you, ma'am. I ap preciate you being here today. 13



### I'd like to call Nathan Smith and Dick 14



### Lucas. 15


### Mr. Smith, when you're ready. 16


### MR. SMITH: Good morning. My name is 17



### Nathan Smith, S

- m

- i

- t

- h. I live in Bridgeport, 18



### Ohio. I'm a member of UMWA, Local Union 1473 and 19


### work at Murray American Energy High County Coal 20



### Mine. 21

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### When I heard tha t the EPA was holding 1


### hearings about the Clean Power Plan, I 2


### immediately began trying to contact the agency in 3


### hopes of being able to speak against this rule. 4


### I feel that this rule as written is misguided. 5


### It punishes workers in the United States and doe s 6


### little, if anything, for the environment. 7


### The rule's purpose is to reduce carbon 8


### emissions globally by dismantling the American 9


### coal industry. I have to ask the question why a 10


### US agency like the EPA would ignore the evidence 11



### that India and China intend on ramping up their 12


### coal usage, regardless of what the United States 13



### does

. They are increasing coal mining, and 14


### imports, and burning coal with few pollution 15



### controls at a rate that already far surpasses our 16



### country's usage. 17



### Maybe I should not be surp rised. After 18


### all, the EPA has, for years, not hidden its 19


### intentions to shut down coal mining in this 20


### country. Seeing our industry is obsolete, 21


### despite the thousands of Americans it employs, 22

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### and now you expect us to go away quietly. I can 1



### assure you that will not happen. 2



### I have to ask, does the EPA see miners, 3


### regardless of facts to the contrary, as dirty 4


### polluters who must be eliminated? Many of our 5


### strongest supporters in the environmental 6


### movement do. Do you actually believe that we 7


### spend our lives with our heads buried in the 8


### sand, not seeing what's happening around us? 9


### In the end, most people here will not 10



### wonder or care what happens to my spouse and 11


### children if I no longer have a job. No one is 12


### looking at the burden my family and my coworkers 13



### wi ll face if we no longer have a steady paycheck, 14



### or if there are no more contributions to the UMWA 15



### Health and Retirement funds. No one will care 16


### until the money runs out, and the government, 17


### which is killing our jobs, must pay the price in 18



### employment benef its, welfare, and public 19



### assistance. 20



### I am proud that I have been able to 21


### provide for my family because of the work that I 22

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### do. I am proud to be a miner. I've never asked 1



### for handouts from the people around me or from 2



### the government. I want to pay my own way. I 3



### want to work. I am proud of the work that I do. 4


### I want to be able to continue my profession and 5


### produce coal to power the nation. 6


### I have worked in the mines for many 7


### years. I do not want my job to be given to 8


### someone in another country who wil l never hear 9


### about this type of rule. This rule will not help 10


### the environment, but it will throw away our 11


### future and cause hardship on many others. Thank 12



### you. 13


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 14



### Mr. Lucas? 15


### MR. LUCAS: Good morning. My name is 16



### Richard Lucas , L

- u

- c

- a

- s, and I live in 17


### Morgantown West Virginia. I'm a 44

- year member 18



### of the United Mine Workers of America, Local 19



### Union 1702, and I worked at Consol Energy, 20


### Blackfield Two Mine, which is now Murray Energy, 21


### Monongah County Mine. 22

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### I'd like to start my testimony by saying 1


### that this EPA ruling is a betrayal of not just my 2


### family and myself but to my community as a whole. 3


### I grew up in Morgantown, West Virginia, where my 4



### fathers, and uncles, and grandfathers were proud 5


### union coal miners. They entered the mines to 6


### support their families and create a life that 7


### afforded job security while they worked and 8


### pension and healthcare security when they 9



### retired. 10


### When I finished high school, I followed 11


### in their footsteps and began my mining career. 12


### This part of my s tory is very similar to other 13


### miners that live in my community and reflects the 14


### nature of mining communities across this country. 15



### For a lot of towns like mine, coal is the 16


### lifeblood of our economy. It is in many ways the 17


### family trade, and I'm proud of th at fact. When I 18



### spend the paycheck I earn, the money goes to the 19


### people working in my town. The money goes to the 20


### grocery stores, the gas stations, the local mall 21


### and restaurants, all of them employing people 22

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### from the community. While it may seem diffic ult 1


### for some to understand, I believe that my coal 2


### mining job has been able to help improve the 3



### hometown I love so dearly. 4


### With the implementation of this rule, I 5


### can't help but fear that all of this will change 6



### for the worst. Without new coal

- fired powe r 7


### plants, plants that are much more efficient than 8


### ever before, I can't be sure my job will be 9



### secured for the future, and I fear for the 10


### pension that would ensure my family's future 11


### comfort. I also fear without jobs in the coal 12


### industry, workers througho ut my community in all 13


### lines of work will feel the same hardships. 14


### The only thing I find even more shocking 15


### than the rule is the reasoning behind it. I 16


### cannot truly believe that countries like China, 17



### India, and dozens of others will follow our lead. 18


### They never have in the past. Why do we think 19


### they will now? 20


### Not only are you throwing away my future, 21


### my children's future, and my community's future, 22

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### but the futures of so many other small rural 1



### communities across the coal fields, all for a 2



### rule that wi ll not stop other countries from 3


### mining coal and burning coal without the 4


### pollution control technology that we already have 5


### in place. They will continue to mine and burn 6


### coal and grow financially, while we will lose our 7


### jobs, or wages, and our future. 8



### I hope you consider what I have said 9


### here. What you are doing will cripple the coal 10


### fields and small towns across this country, 11


### leaving unemployment and poverty as a lasting 12



### effect, and the air will be no clear for all of 13


### our sacrifice. Thank you. 14



### MR. KOE RBER: Thank you. I appreciate 15


### both of you being here today. 16



### I'd like to call Donald Luketic. I'm 17


### sorry if I mispronounced

-- and Dave Bienkoski, 18


### Bienkoski. I probably said it wrong twice. 19



### MR. BIENKOSKI: You were close. 20



### MR. KOERBER: I was close. 21



### M r. Luketic? 22

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### MR. LUKETIC: Good morning. My name is 1



### Donald Luketic, L

- u

- k

- e

- t

- i

- c. And I live in 2


### Fairview, West Virginia. I'm a proud member of 3



### UMWA , Local Union 4047, and a proud member of the 4


### United Mine Workers for 64 years. 5



### I worked at Eastern As sociated Coal 6


### Federal No. 1, Federal 2, and Peabody, which is 7



### now Patriot Coal. I am now retired. 8


### In deciding on the final language to be 9



### contained in the Clean Power Plan, the EPA has 10


### stated that it looked at many potential scenarios 11



### in order to craft a n effective and workable 12


### solution to the global climate problem. I could 13


### argue broadly that this policy will undoubtedly 14


### be rejected by the majority of other countries 15


### around the world and, therefore, have no impact 16


### on the problem, making it a ridiculous approach. 17


### I will instead focus more narrowly on 18


### some economic problem s the EPA has failed to 19



### address. I'm sure that the agency has done some 20



### elaborate economic studies to bolster its 21


### position in regard to this policy. However, as a 22

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### coal miner and an ind ividual who will feel the 1


### brunt of this policy most severely, I must 2


### question whether there was any focus placed on 3



### the economic devastation that will slam coal 4


### field communities. Has the EPA actually looked 5



### at the numbers? Did it look at the situation i n 6



### real dollar terms, and does it see what the 7


### policy it has settled on will mean? 8


### I am sure that this panel has heard that 9



### there are over 100,000 retired miners, their 10


### families and widows who are currently receiving 11


### pensions and medical benefits from the UMWA 12



### Health and Retirement funds, but I wonder if 13



### anyone here understands exactly what that means 14



### in terms of real dollars. 15


### I also wonder if you understand how that 16


### money supports not only the beneficiary but the 17


### community as well. Allow me to give you just a 18


### few facts and figures to make my point. In 2013, 19


### the 100,000 plus beneficiaries of the funds 20


### received pension benefits in excess of $590 21


### million. These benefits were used to pay for 22

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### municipal services, buy clothing, food, support 1



### education, and h elp maintain a stable life for 2


### the beneficiary. 3


### In Pennsylvania, where you are holding 4


### this hearing, pensioners received over $111 5


### million. In neighboring West Virginia, pension 6


### benefits topped $204 million. The bottom line is 7


### these benefits help to sus tain communities. 8


### In that same year, these miners and their 9


### families also assess over $577 million in 10



### healthcare services. Services that were 11


### necessary to heal the sick, mend the injured, and 12


### cure disease. They allowed the beneficiaries to 13



### maintain or regain their health, but they also 14


### provided assets needed to keep the doctors' 15


### offices, clinics, pharmacies, and hospitals 16


### operational. These benefits, like the miners' 17


### pension checks, help to sustain the community. 18


### As I stated in my opening , based on t he 19


### actions of other nations. There is little hope 20


### that this policy will be effective in achieving 21



### any amount of success in addressing its stated 22

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### mission. Let there be no doubt, if implemented, 1


### this policy will succeed where countless, 2



### ruthless coal opera tors failed over the years in 3


### destroying the UMWA Health and Retirement funds. 4


### Should that happen, simple economics say the $1.1 5


### billion that annually goes into the coal fields 6


### from these funds will no longer be available to 7



### sustain lives or communities. 8


### Thank you for this opportunity. 9


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, Mr. Luketic. 10



### Mr. Bienkoski? 11


### MR. BIENKOSKI: Yes. My name is David 12



### Bienkoski, B

- i

- e

- n

- k

- o

- s

- k

- i. I live in 13


### Reedsville, West Virginia. I belong to Local 14



### Union 1702 with the United Mine Workers, and I'm 15


### retired from Consol Energy, Blackfield Two Mine. 16



### I would like to discuss an issue that 17


### seems to be missing from the conversation. It 18



### very well could be that everybody at the EPA has 19


### been working hard to eliminate coal from the 20


### nation's energy mix . You never consider some of 21


### the harm you were doing. I'm referring to the 22

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### destruction of the United Mine Workers of 1



### American Health and Retirement Fund. The fund 2


### currently pays pensions and healthcare, nearly 3



### 100,000 retirees, their families, and widow s. 4


### There are also thousands of working miners who 5


### are counting on these earned benefits when their 6


### working lives in the mines are done. 7


### The funds were created in 1946 by an 8


### agreement signed at the White House by President 9


### Harry Truman looking on. The continuation of the 10


### funds depends, as it has in its conception, on 11


### the continuous contributions from coal operators 12



### under contract with the United Mine Workers. The 13


### amount of the contributions of each coal company 14


### depends on the numbers of miners they emp loy and 15



### the hours that these miners work. The union has 16


### understood for years that a healthy coal industry 17


### is key to adequately funding the benefits of our 18



### retirees and widows. 19


### For the past 68 years, we have negotiated 20


### contracts with the coal operators th at protect 21


### the funds and allowed the industry to thrive. We 22

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### all understand that it's essential to have 1


### someone sitting at the other side of the table to 2


### negotiate with. Accomplishing this, despite the 3


### ups and downs of the industry and the ever

4


### changing e nergy needs of the nation has never 5



### been easy, but we have been successful. Now we 6



### as a union and each of our members and widows who 7


### rely on the benefits, we have earned

-- we have 8


### earned to sustain us through our retirement 9


### years, and are facing a crisis that your agency 10


### is creating. 11


### When you implement this policy, which the 12


### EPA acknowledges will close down a significant 13


### portion of the coal industry in this country, you 14


### eliminate the companies we rely on to fund this 15


### continuing benefit. Without these em ployers, 16


### there are no miners and no one to pay into the 17


### fund. It will only matter

-- it would only be a 18


### matter of time until the money runs out and the 19


### pensions and the healthcare of these workers who 20



### worked so hard to secure them are left without 21



### retirem ent security. 22

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### I want each of you to think about that. 1


### I want you to understand that what you are doing 2


### is not just implementing some happy plan that 3


### everybody should be dancing in the streets about. 4


### In fact, you are placing the lives of all the 5



### people I 'm talking about in jeopardy. I hope you 6



### take this into consideration. 7


### Thank you for your time. 8


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. I 9


### appreciate both of you trave ling here today to be 10



### with us. 11



### I'd like to call Carol Bienkoski and Ken 12


### Schilling. Didn't kn ow it was such a common 13



### name. You know him? 14



### (Laughter) 15


### Ms. Bienkoski, you can go first. 16


### MS. BIENKOSKI: Hello. My name is Carol 17


### Bienkoski. My husband Dave and I are retired 18



### coal miners from UMWA Local 1702. 19



### We both worked hard to produce the ene rgy 20


### source that has powered this nation for years. 21


### Now, we simply want to be permitted to continue 22

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### to receive the benefits we have earned in our 1


### retirement years. You just don’t care to hear 2



### what

-- 3


### In your decision, you just don't care to 4



### hear what th ey have to say. Surely, it couldn't 5


### be because you're afraid to make your case before 6


### the group of patriotic Americans. This rule is 7


### just as much about a family and community as it 8


### is about burning coal. 9


### You claim it will reduce health problems 10



### for so me in the country, but ignore the fact that 11


### it will strip lifesaving healthcare from others. 12


### You talk about protecting the planet from severe 13


### weather, but you put families in the cold with 14


### the risk of losing all they have to work for. 15


### There is something terribly wrong when an 16


### agency of my government cares about more trying 17


### to make a political statement than it does about 18


### its own people. 19


### I have also heard about the promises of 20


### job creations that would result from the clean 21


### power plant. I hope you realize these are people 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### not 50 miles from up and down these rivers, where 1


### we sat at today, and still waiting on the jobs 2


### that the government said would be created when 3


### the steel industry was outsourced. Our first 4



### rebound in recent times, it was not because of 5



### g overnment effects. It took 40 years. Think 6


### about it. Forty years for a city to recover from 7


### massive job loses. If that's what my children 8


### and grandchildren have to look forward to in the 9


### coal fields, then shame on you. 10


### No other country in the world wo uld 11


### follow such a ridiculous plan. Yes, I'm angry. 12


### You are throwing miners out of work, eliminating 13


### a piece of an American dream. You are subjecting 14


### our families to the uncertainty of a future 15


### without a hope and threaten the pension, 16



### healthcare my husba nd and I have earned. 17



### The rule would decimate our communities, 18


### leaving us unable to sustain a way of life that 19


### has helped build this nation. Did any of you 20


### ever think to look at the damage you were causing 21


### and (inaudible) the results that the EPA plan 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### wi ll really accomplish. I cannot see how you 1


### could possibly have done that and arrive at your 2



### decision. 3



### Most of all, I'm angry because you have 4



### made it clear that a decision has been made, and 5


### this sham you call a hearing will not change a 6


### thing to sto p the ridiculous plan. A plan that 7


### any thinking person could see will kill jobs here 8


### and do nothing to fix the problem of the climate 9



### control. So thank you. 10



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 11


### Mr. Schilling? 12


### MR. SCHILLING: My name is Ken Schilling, 13



### S

- c

- h

- i

- l

- l

- i

- n

- g. I'm the General Manager and 14


### CEO of Western Electric Cooperative, 15


### headquartered in Marietta, Ohio. I'm speaking on 16


### behalf of the Ohio Rural Electric Cooperatives 17


### and its 25 member systems which serve the rural 18



### areas of Ohio. 19



### I am here today to tes tify against the 20



### EPA's proposed rule to control greenhouse gas 21


### emissions from existing fossil fuel powered 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### plants. Rural elective cooperatives are a unique 1


### subset of the electric utility industry due to 2



### the rural service territories that we have. 3



### In Ohio , electric cooperatives supply 4


### electricity to 40 percent of the geography of our 5


### state in order to reach just 8 percent of our 6


### population. My electric cooperative has a n 7


### average residential consumer density of just four 8


### members per mile of line. 9



### Rural households have a higher than 10


### average monthly use as well due to accommodation 11


### of housing stock, exposure, appliance profiles 12


### such as septic systems, pump the water, et 13


### cetera. Rural per capita income in my Noble 14


### County territory is a full 27 percent lowe r than 15


### the state average. Unemployment in my Monroe 16


### County service area sits stubbornly at 11 percent 17


### due in no small part to power plants closures in 18


### neighboring areas. 19


### Given the rural life statistics, you can 20


### readily understand that rural electric 21



### coop erative members pay a disproportionate price 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### for energy, regulatory policy, which drives costs 1


### higher. 2


### Our retail members tell us survey after 3


### survey that they require affordable, reliable, 4


### and environmentally responsible electricity in 5



### that order. We an d our wholesale power provider, 6


### Buckeye Power, Incorporated, have strived to fill 7


### that mission, as we have assembled a portfolio of 8


### generation resources, which includes coal, 9


### natural gas, peeking plants, hydroelectric, wind, 10


### agriculture biogas, and landfil l gas. 11


### Also, Buckeye Power and its member 12


### systems are recognized nationally as early and 13


### lasting leaders in a demand side management. 14


### First instituted in 1973, it has expanded over 15


### the years to control 114,000 electric water 16


### heaters, 9,000 home heating u nits, and 8,300 air 17


### conditioning systems. This has served members' 18


### interests, as it's helped to control cost, 19


### improve efficiencies, and delay the need to 20



### procure the next power plant. 21

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Ohio rural electric cooperative are 1



### committed to a clean environment. Recently 2


### Buckeye Power completed the installation of a 3



### state of the art scrubber and non

- selective 4


### catalytic converter technologies on its coal

5


### fired plants. It did this well ahead of the 6


### statutory deadlines and now owns one of the 7



### cleanest coal fleets i n the world. 8


### These improvements came at a high price 9


### to my members. Wholesale rates effectively 10


### doubled in the last 10 years, and now we are hit 11


### again with another proposed rule, one that will 12


### require our coal plant operations be diminished 13



### in order t o meet new EPA

- established goal of 30 14


### percent reduction in CO 2 

### . This action only serves 15



### to delude the investments we have made in 16


### environmental technology and will force my 17


### members to pay twice for the replacement of that 18


### capacity. 19


### This rule is complex

, 

### 645 pages long, 20


### along with another 600 supporting technical 21



### documents referenced. While we are still 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### digesting its implications, our early impact 1


### analysis suggest that our rural members will see 2


### a retail rate increase of $40 to $50 a month and 3



### for what? The 30 percent CO 2 

### reduction

-- if the 4



### 32 percent CO 2 

### reduction is achieved, it would 5


### diminish the rise of global temperature by a mere 6



### 0.18 degrees, 0.018 degree through the year of 7


### 2100, 2100. This is a lot of pain for no gain, 8



### and one of the reasons th at climate change issues 9


### stays anchored at the bottom of the list of 10



### Americans' concerns. 11


### Make no mistakes, my members' top concern 12


### is affordability. Many are struggling now and 13


### month after month, as my office staff are faced 14


### with tragic stories of how d esperate they are to 15


### scrap together enough cash to keep the lights on. 16


### I've been working at a r ural electric 17


### cooperative for 37 years and at Washington 18


### Electric for 19 years . I know the people want to 19


### pay their bills, but their incomes don't rise, 20


### job op portunities disappear, and government 21


### proclaims a continuous barrage of new rules that 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### have very little impact on the environment. 1



### People become desperate and angry. 2


### I know what the havoc such regulation is 3


### going to have on the households in my area, and I 4


### encourage you to withdraw the rule, to evaluate 5



### more measures that are affordable, achievable, 6



### and reasonable. 7



### Thank you very much. 8


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir, and 9


### thank you, ma'am. We appreciate being here and 10


### helping us on this rule. We do app reciate it. 11


### Is it something I said? We have more. 12



### We're not done yet. 13


### I'd like to call Brendon Wolf and Abby 14



### Resnick. 15



### Mr. Wolf, when you're ready. 16



### MR. WOLF: Thank you. Good afternoon. 17


### My name is Brandon Wolf, W

- o

- l

- f. I'm the 18


### president and assist ant business manager of Local 19



### 459 of the International Brotherhood of 20


### Electrical Workers. I'm a third generation IBW 21


### member. Local 459 is headquartered in Johnstown, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### Pennsylvania, which represents nearly 2,000 1



### members and over a dozen counties in our 2



### com monwealth of Pennsylvania as well as Maryland 3



### and New York. 4


### Most specific, at issue before us today, 5


### approximately half of that membership is employed 6


### in some form or capacity directly working for or 7


### supporting coal

- fired generated electricity power 8



### plant s. From janitors, general utility workers, 9


### material handlers, heavy equipment operators, 10



### welders, mechanics, electricians, and control 11


### room operators, our members provide the labor 12


### upon which electricity is generated throughout 13


### southwestern Pennsylvania. 14


### The IBW estimates the job impacts of 15


### EPA's proposed clean power rule indicate the 16


### potential loss of 52,000 permanent direct jobs by 17


### 2020 in the utility, rail, and coal sectors due 18


### to power plants retirements and the loss of 19



### 167,000 total direct and ind irect jobs. These 20


### direct jobs are all highly skilled, highly paying 21

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### jobs, typically in a rural community without 1


### opportunities for comparable employment. 2


### While many may recognize that the bulk of 3



### workers in the coal

- fire d generating industry 4



### work directl y for a generating company, many of 5


### them also work as contractors, supporting the 6


### electric generation process. Stating the 7



### obvious, such workers are members of the 8


### community in which they live. Most are married, 9



### have children, dine at a local restaurant, shop 10


### at local shops, malls, and numerous vendors in 11


### the community in which they live. All of them go 12


### to work and do the best they can to improve the 13


### quality of life in their families and 14



### communities. 15


### With regard to employees of the companies 16



### that suppor t the coal

- fired generation process, 17


### many are modestly paid with decent benefits. The 18



### drawdown of coal

- fired generation will hit these 19


### people the hardest, largely because their job is 20


### specifically related to plants currently in 21


### existence. Their ability t o just pick up and 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### move to another location in or around another 1


### field is severely limited. 2


### Inevitably, many will be at risk of 3


### losing their home, uprooting their family life, 4


### and forcing the hard decision of relocating with 5


### their children to another p lace and taking, in 6


### all likelihood, with less pay and for sure fewer 7


### benefits, and as a consequence, a much lower 8


### standard of living. 9


### Obviously, their current job and related 10


### benefit structure allows them to put food on the 11


### table, pay their rent or mortga ge, pay their 12


### property taxes to ensure quality of education for 13



### their kids, send their children to a local 14


### community college/university, and hopefully take 15


### a vacation across the commonwealth, thereby also 16


### providing economic support to the limited 17



### recreatio nal activities we all enjoy. 18


### After employment, these members typically 19


### remain in the community in which they live, due 20


### to a large part of the respectable benefits 21


### package they earn while employed for numerous 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### years of service. Without such strong employm ent 1


### opportunities, such an American dream would not 2


### be possible. 3


### The suggested changes and vision in the 4


### Clean Power Plan pose a very significant risk to 5


### these very respectable jobs and, in turn, well

6


### established communities. Inevitably, 7


### implementation o f the proposed rules will 8


### significantly degrade the communities in which 9


### these people live, work, are educated in, and 10



### contribute. 11


### While there is no doubt that policies and 12


### regulations are needed in order to maintain and 13


### improve our environment at home in Pennsylvania, 14



### in the United States, and worldwide, the current 15


### proposed regulations are too much, too fast, and 16



### too soon. 17


### Specifically, the plan should provide 18


### states with credit for prior CO 2 

### reductions as an 19


### option towards meeting a reasonable na tional 20


### target for reducing CO 2 

### emissions for the electric 21



### power sector. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### EPA's compliance time table is 1


### unrealistic and unachievable, even with multiyear 2


### compliance, averaging towards the interim and 3


### final targets. 4


### The initial reduction program should be 5



### delayed for several years to allow states and 6


### affected sources adequate time to prepare and 7


### submit state plans and to structure and implement 8


### compliance strategies in the most flexible, least 9



### cost manner. 10


### And lastly, the rule is premature since 11



### we do n ot know the extent to which other nations, 12


### particularly large developing countries, will be 13


### willing to commit to a truly global program of 14


### greenhouse gas reductions. 15


### We cannot go it alone and expect that our 16


### actions will have any meaningful climate impact 17


### in a world economy that is using more coal and 18


### other fossil fuels every day. Developing nations 19



### already omit more CO 2 

### than advanced industrial 20


### nations, and the Department of Energy projects 21

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### that their share of global emissions will grow 1


### steadily. 2



### When v iewed in the larger context that 3


### pollution producers' role energy generation 4


### around the world and US, such implementation is 5


### overreaching and not in the best interest of our 6



### citizens. 7



### A more reasonable approach needs to be 8


### taken, specifically the Clean Power Plan needs to 9


### be reexamined in a much larger cause and effect 10


### context, and particular that of its economic 11


### impact on communities and the tangible as opposed 12


### to abstract overall environmental savings gained 13


### by implementation of such rules. 14



### Thank you for the opportunity to speak 15



### before you today. 16


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 17



### Ms. Resnick? 18


### MS. RESNICK: Hello. My name is Abby 19



### Resnick, A

- b

- b

- y, R

- e

- s

- n

- i

- c

- k. 20



### I'm here today to express my support of 21


### the EPA's efforts to limit carbon pollution from 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### existing power plants and to urge much stricter 1



### reductions. 2


### My family has experienced the harmful and 3


### painful effects of living in an environment where 4


### air quality is often poor. My mother suffered 5


### from asthma since childhood, but her lung 6



### conditio ns grew progressively worse when she 7


### moved to Pittsburgh, where she spent the last 8


### eight years of her life. Although she never 9



### smoked, she died from chronic obstructive 10


### pulmonary disease in March 2013. 11


### My husband had severe asthma as a child 12



### and continue s to deal with the disease as an 13



### adult. One of our three children has exercise 14


### asthma, and I also developed exercise asthma 15


### since moving to Pittsburgh almost three decades 16


### ago. I know all too well the damaging impacts 17


### that polluted air has on our health. 18


### While I'm here today to share my family's 19


### story, I know our experience is far from unique. 20


### So many people in cities like Pittsburgh are 21


### going through the same experience. 22

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### I support the EPA's efforts to limit 1


### carbon pollution from existing power plan ts. I 2


### commend the EPA for taking action to mitigate 3


### climate change. 4


### In the US, power plants are responsible 5


### for emitting nearly 40 percent of the carbon 6


### pollution that is fueling climate change. Warmer 7


### temperatures exacerbate the conditions, which 8



### creat e unhealthy air, which leads to more 9


### childhood asthma attacks and complications for 10


### those with existing lung and heart diseases. 11


### When air pollution levels are unsafe, 12



### we're all at risk. If we do not make swift and 13


### significant emission reductions, generat ion after 14


### generation will experience the same health 15


### impacts from dirty air as my family. 16


### However, the EPA must require much 17


### stricter reductions to protect our health and 18


### stop catastrophic global warming. Coal

- fired 19



### power plants are not only contributing to climate 20


### change but are also polluting our air. We need a 21


### rapid transition toward a clean energy future, 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### away from dirty fossil fuels and towards clean, 1


### renewable forms of energy such as wind and solar. 2


### Increasing our reliance on wind and solar 3



### will h elp clean our air and improve the health of 4


### my family. 5


### Turning to renewable energy will also 6


### bring new jobs. The solar industry along 7


### provides over 60,000 more jobs than coal. Now is 8



### the time to make this historic transition. 9


### I appreciate you taking the time to 10


### listen to my comments today. I support the Obama 11



### administration in its efforts to limit the carbon 12


### pollution from existing power plants. The next 13


### step the EPA must take is to require more robust 14


### emission reduction targets and encourage large 15


### increases and dependence on clean renewable 16



### energy. 17


### I hope EPA will make this proposed rule 18


### stronger in order to protect people's health and 19


### prevent catastrophic climate change. Thank you. 20



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, ma'am. Thank 21


### you, sir. I appreciate you being here. 22

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### Next I'd like to call Ed Good. 1


### And I know I said I'd call people from 2


### Paris, but there's only one name on the card; and 3



### here come more cards. And John Atherton. 4



### Mr. Good, when you're ready. 5


### MR. GOOD: Good morning. I want to thank 6



### y ou for this opportunity to provide thoughts and 7



### comments on the EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. 8


### My name is Ed Good, G

- o

- o

- d. I'm the 9


### legislative director for the Utility Workers 10



### Union of America, AFLCIO. 11


### The UWUA represents 50,000 employees in 12



### the electric generation, distribution, and other 13


### utility industries. The UWUA strongly supports an 14



### all

- of

- the

- above energy strategy as opposed to an 15



### all

- but

- one

- of

- the

- above strategy. My comments 16


### today are not limited to my role as a UWUA member 17



### but also as a n elected local government official 18



### and consumer. 19


### First and foremost, I'm a proud member of 20


### the UWUA for over 35 years. The majority of 21


### those years I primarily worked in a coal

- fired 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### power plant. My first 30 plus years was spent at 1


### the first energy RE B urger Plant in Mead 2


### Township, Belmont County, Ohio. 3



### On February 23, 1995, 100 persons lost 4


### their jobs when units 1 and 2 were deactivated 5


### due to compliance issues with the Clean Air Act 6



### and Amendments. On November 17, 2010, some 15 7


### years later, it was announced units 3, 4, and 5 8


### would be shut down, again, due to the cost of 9


### environmental compliance. 10


### Due to today's hearing schedule and 11


### format, there simply is not enough time to 12


### properly convey the impact these and other unit 13



### closures has on employees, t he community, and 14


### local services. Having taken office in 1996, I 15


### am currently a township trustee in Mead Township 16


### where the Burger Plant is located. The negative 17


### impact that takes place when a plant closes is 18


### devastating. Local government, along with ot her 19



### services such as libraries, schools, health, 20


### park, and fire districts suffer or in some cases 21


### are simply eliminated. 22

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### I have attached a report detailing the 1


### loss of over $1.68 million to the Shadyside local 2


### school district and over $146,000 loss to Mea d 3


### Township as a result of the Burger Plant closure 4



### alone. 5


### Understanding the need to address global 6


### climate change, it is just that, a global 7


### challenge. The absence of border adjustments on 8


### goods produced in high

- carbon, low

- control 9



### countries should not a nd cannot be ignored. 10


### Regions like here in Appalachia cannot be 11


### expected to bear the cost of solutions to this 12



### global challenge alone. 13



### Shakeb Afsah, an economist who runs an 14


### energy consulting firm, recently stated, "Energy 15


### exports bit by bit are chipping away at gains we 16


### are making on carbon dioxide domestically." 17


### Another issue that cannot be ignored is 18


### the problem of methane emissions from natural gas 19


### distribution pipelines. Last month the US EPA 20


### Office of Inspector General issued a report 21


### detailing th e improvements needed and the EPA's 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### efforts to address those emissions. The EPA 1


### Inspector General noted the following on page one 2


### of that report: "Methane is a potent greenhouse 3


### gas. It has a global warming potential of 25 4



### times that of carbon dioxide. In addition to 5


### contributing to global climate change, methane 6


### emissions also worsen ground level ozone problems 7


### and can kill trees and other vegetation. 8


### Emissions from leaks and natural gas distribution 9


### pipelines are comprised almost entirely of 10



### methane." 11



### The US EPA, other regulators, and federal 12


### agencies need to address this complex issue with 13


### a coordinated approach, working with the 14



### Department of Energy to advance carbon capture 15


### sequestration. Department of Energy needs to 16


### address the displaced worker issue, and 17


### (inaudible) concerning electric power reliability 18


### and security are just a few examples of the 19


### coordination that will be necessary to 20


### effectively deal with the problem of greenhouse 21


### gas emissions in the power industry. 22

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### Stakeholders, especially t hose expected 1


### to be impacted the most, must have a seat at the 2


### table in the process. 3


### In closing, the UWUA would like to also 4


### urge the EPA to extend the comment period by at 5


### least 60 additional days in order to allow 6


### interested parties to file comments con cerning 7



### EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. 8


### Thank you for your time and attention. 9


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. 10



### Mr. Atherton. 11



### MR. GOOD: I have attachments. 12



### MR. KOERBER: That would be great. I'd 13


### love to take those. We will make sure those get 14



### entered into the record, including your request 15


### for an extension of comment period. Thank you, 16



### sir. 17


### MR. ATHERTON: Good afternoon or morning. 18


### My name is John Atherton. That's A as in apple, 19



### t

- h

- e

- r

- t

- o

- n . And I'm a concerned citizen. I 20



### teach at Seton Hil l University, about 40 miles 21


### outside of Pittsburgh here. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### I have a pamphlet that I will be giving 1


### to you if you want it. 2


### Converting now to renewable energy makes 3



### sense with the head and sense with the dollars. 4



### This home

- grown energy lowers costs, grows local 5


### jobs, improves personal health and safety, an 6


### advances our national security. 7



### At the state level, one example, New 8


### York. There's a very good report out on this. 9


### New York state can achieve 100 percent, 100 10


### percent renewable energy for electricity, 11


### vehicles, and industry by the year 2000 (sic). I 12



### have the citation here. 13



### Renewable rates cost will be lower than 14



### for fossil fuels and nuclear. Wind and solar 15


### projects alone will provide over four million 16



### long

- term construction jobs for over 10 years an d 17


### 40,000 permanent jobs after construction. All 18


### energy revenues remains in the state and continue 19



### to fuel the local economies. 20



### Health benefits include thousands of 21



### lives and billions of dollars saved because 22

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### renewable energy eliminates pollution from coa l 1


### and shale gas industries. Health costs, that is 2


### illness, premature deaths, and crop harm of air 3


### pollution from fossil fuel

- powered vehicles and 4


### electric generation is $33 billion a year in New 5



### York S tate alone. 6



### A quote I have, "We can see over a 30 7



### per cent target now from generating renewable 8


### energies and seek a 90 percent target later, and 9


### every step the target will move towards lower 10


### costs than today's systems." This conclusion 11



### comes from the International Journal of the Power 12



### Source where Budischak and all others found that 13


### quote, "Diverse renewable generation and excess 14


### capacity together mean electric loads with less 15



### energy storage and lower total system cost." 16


### Budischak assumes that the community that they're 17


### talking about here, PJM, would use tod ay's 18


### technology for wind (inaudible) with batteries 19


### and fuel cell storages. Technology advances in 20



### renewables will further decrease costs. That's 21



### the local level. 22

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### On a national level, the US is behind 1


### many other nations. The solar in Europe alone is 2



### in stalled over 10 times the amount of photo solar 3



### TV as it is in the United States. In wind, China 4


### and India has increased by 50 percent while we 5



### have only added 17 percent. 6


### Currently, wind power employs more 7


### Americans than all coal mining, transportation, 8



### and combustion. On shore wind alone in suitable 9


### windy sites on available land could generate 9.5 10


### times as much electricity as the US used in the 11


### entire year of 2010. 12


### Globally, international energy agencies 13


### aligns measures with no net cost that benefit 14



### f rom human health, economies, and the climate. 15


### These measures emphasize energy efficiency and 16


### phasing out fossil fuel use. 17


### The conclusion here is very clear. 18


### Americans need to catch up with the rest of the 19


### world in using renewable energies. Engineering 20


### and economic experts agree that the faster we 21


### phase out fossil fuels, the faster we will enjoy 22

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### better health through cleaner air and water, more 1


### income through lower energy costs, more 2


### sustainable jobs, more homegrown energy at more 3


### predictable prices, and a more secure national 4


### energy future. We need to get going on those 5


### points. Thank you. 6



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, Mr. Atherton and 7



### Mr. Good. Thank you both. 8


### If you have extra copies, that would be 9



### great. We'd be happy to keep those. Thank you. 10



### Thank you, sir. Thank you. 11


### Next I'd like to call Cynthia Walter. 12



### MS. WALTER: No one else? 13



### MR. KOERBER: No. I'm sorry. Just one 14



### name on the card. 15


### MS. WALTER: Okay. All right. 16


### Well, thank you. My name is Cynthia 17



### Walter, W

- a

- l

- t

- e

- r, and I am from G reensburg, 18


### Pennsylvania. 19



### Many of my students

-- I don't know if 20


### Mr. Good is here. I think he may have just left. 21


### But, anyway, many of my students and folks in my 22

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### area do work and live in association with the 1


### coal industry. It's very important in our area. 2


### The problem I see though is that those 3


### jobs are leading us in the wrong direction. The 4


### skills of the men that that gentleman talked 5


### about who are losing their jobs, those skills are 6



### desperately needed by the renewable energy 7



### sector. 8



### We need

-- as we change from this EPA 9


### ruling to better energy sources, we need to 10


### coordinate that with labor efforts that will give 11


### those people the jobs that they deserve. For 12


### example, one of the electrical person who had 13


### great electrical installment skills used in the 14


### fossil fuel industry got smart and said, you 15


### know, I'm going to learn how to install solar 16


### panels, and with a small amount of training and a 17


### lot of good effort on his part, he know is a 18


### solar panel installer. He put them on our house. 19



### Now our house has solar panels. We have no 20


### worries. We have energy security. We have no 21


### air pollution coming from our house. 22

OLENDER REPORTING, INC. 1100 Co nnecticut Avenue NW, #810, Washington, DC 20036 Washington: 202

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### So we can have a win

- win situation if the 1


### EPA works very closely with the labor departments 2


### and other folks to make sure that those jobs that 3


### everyone is so worried about will transition 4


### because those folks have great skills. 5


### Now, if we don't. If you guys get 6


### kowtowed by all this hullabaloo that you hear on 7


### the press and everybody else screaming with their 8



### t

- shirts and everything else, if you guys get 9


### kowtowed and you back off of your regulations, 10


### here's some of the problem that will occur. 11


### Okay. Here's my asthma medication, $40 a month. 12



### Here's my heart

-- well, that's my phone. Here's 13


### my heart medication, you know, $40 a month. 14



### Here's th e emergency room visit, three hundred 15



### and some dollars per year, you know. What are we 16


### looking at? The cost of this air pollution in 17


### our own country is severe from our own coal

- fired 18



### power plant. 19


### So I'm not blaming them for my health or 20


### my children's he alth and so on, but I'm saying 21

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### you guys have to move us in the better direction. 1



### You have to hold the line. 2



### The other reason that you need to hold 3


### the line is something that you're not going to 4


### see very much in Pennsylvania, except on your 5


### dinner plates. This is clam, Alaskan Pollock. 6


### This is one million men's and women's employment, 7


### one million of them. They're not here today. 8


### They're not at many of your hearings. They're 9


### out in their boats desperately trying to catch 10



### the fish who are fewer and fewe r. 11



### What does fish have to do with climate 12


### change and everything else? I think you know the 13



### answer. It's ocean acidification. It's the loss 14


### of our coral reefs. So here I am in Pennsylvania 15


### talking about coral reefs and oceans because this 16



### is one of the best, and cheapest, and best 17


### quality food that people can get. 18



### So we eat this here, but the whole nation 19


### needs our fisheries. Those fisheries bring in 20



### between 32

-- this is on federally (inaudible) 21


### references; I'll get it to you when I get

-- send 22

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### you t he email

-- $32 to $70 billion a year is our 1


### fishery industry. It's enormous, but these folks 2


### are so busy trying to catch fish that they're not 3


### at hearings; and they need a voice, and they need 4



### to have you hear them. 5


### So thank you for being here, and I'll 6



### take my trash and go. 7


### But, really, it's great. I think we can 8


### all win here. If you guys just hold the line and 9


### get us off of this fossil fuel addiction. Like 10


### any addict, the addict is going to scream, and 11


### crawl, and say I can't live without it; but we 12



### know we can liv without these fossil fuels, and I 13


### fully agree with the fact that methane and shale 14


### gas has worsened our air quality here to a huge 15


### degree. Shale gas is not going to be the answer 16



### to our energy problem. It's only energy 17


### efficiency and renewable energy that will get us 18



### where we all need to go. Thank you. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, ma'am. 20


### We're going to take a five

- minute break. 21


### I don't have any more cards. I don't know if 22

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### there are any other speakers in the room who have 1


### signed up for this morning's session. We have a 2



### hand at the back. Okay. 3



### Let's take a five

- minute break to give 4



### the court reporter and the panel a chance to 5



### stretch for a minute, and then we'll resume about 6



### 10:50. 7



### (Off the record from 10:43 a.m. to 10:53 8



### a.m.) 9



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you all for your 10


### patience. We'll get started again. 11


### I'd like to call Angela Wiley and Susan 12



### Frant. 13


### Ms. Wiley? 14


### MS. WILEY: Good morning. My name is 15


### Angela Wiley. I grew up in Morgantown, West 16


### Virginia, but I've been spending a lot of time 17


### here in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, over the past 18


### six years. 19


### This morning

-- I'm going to read a 20


### testimony submitted to the US Environmental 21


### Protection Agency in support of the US EPA's 22

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### Clean Power Rule. This testimony was submitted 1



### by Ellen McNulty, part of the Arkansas Wildlife 2



### Federation. 3


### "Thank you for this opportunity to submit 4


### formal testimony regarding EPA's proposed Clean 5



### Power Plan Thank you for the opportunity to 6



### submit formal testimony regarding EPA's proposed 7



### Clean Power Plan. M y name is Ellen McNulty and 8



### I 'm from Pine Bluff, Arkansas. 9



### I want to express my support for EPA's 10



### historic action to combat climate change by 11


### setting limits on carbon pollution from existing 12



### power plants

. 13



### We have an obligation to protect future 14



### gener ations from the impacts of climate change. 15



### We also have an obligatio n to protect wildlife and 16



### our natural resources. Our warming climate is 17


### posing one of the greatest threats to wildlife 18



### today, and as a person with a strong family 19


### history of hunting, I a pplaud EPA for taking 20



### action to combat the root of the problem

- carbon 21


### pollution. 22

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### My brother and I still own our family's 1



### farm located near Stuttgart, Arkansas, the Rice 2



### and Duck Capital of the World. Harvest in our 3



### area has always been a time of antic ipation and 4


### preparation for duck season. 5



### Duck season is not only a way of life in 6



### our area, it is also a way to provide for our 7



### families. Duck hunters from all corners of the 8



### earth travel to our area to hunt. They hunt our 9



### fields and woods, they shop in our stores, they 10



### eat in our restaurants and they sleep in our 11



### motels and lodges. 12



### In recent years, we have experienced 13



### warmer temperatures at the beginning of duck 14



### season with fewer ducks to hunt. The hunting 15



### schedule has been adjusted to accommodate lat er 16



### arrival of ducks and scientists are convinced 17



### that climate change
, including warmer 18



### temperatures, more ice

- free days
, and changes in 19


### precipitation

, is causing fewer ducks to migrate 20



### south for the winter. Sportsmen and women are 21



### concerned that climate c hange could potentially 22

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### change the Mississippi Flyway and seriously 1



### diminish waterfowl hunting in our area. 2



### The Arkansas Department of Environmental 3


### Quality reported that Arkansas generated about 37 4



### million metric tons of carbon emissions in 201 2. 5



### Two of our state's coal

- fired power plants are 6



### included in a 201 1 list of the 50 most polluting 7



### power plants

. The CEO's of these companies will 8



### tell you that they cannot afford the upgrades 9



### that the Clear Power Plan will require, but 10



### really, we cannot afford to allow these power 11



### plants to keep polluting. 12


### Reducing reliance on coal burning for 13



### power generation in the US will protect wildlife 14



### by reducing carbon pollution and other harmful 15



### pollutants that poison fish and threaten all 16



### animals who eat them. This rul e will reduce the 17



### need for more coal mining that's destroying 18


### precious wildlife habitat, a nd it will reduce the 19



### number of leaking toxic coal waste ponds that put 20



### our lakes and rivers in harm's way. 21

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### As you finalize the standard, I ask that 1



### you work to ensu re that it achieves the deepest 2


### reductions possible by requiring states to use 3



### wildlife

- friendly renewable energy and energy 4


### efficiency, and not simply more natural gas 5


### burning. 6



### Arkansas can and should do more to 7



### generate power from renewable sources l ike wind 8



### and solar and reduce energy demand through 9



### energy efficiency. 10



### T hank you for the opportunity to comment 11



### today. I hope you will do everything you can to 12



### ensure it stays strong through the process

. 13



### W ildlife and future generations are counting on 14



### y our leadership. " 15


### Thank you for letting me reads on behalf 16



### of Ellen. 17



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 18


### MS. FRANT: Good morning. My name is 19


### Susan Frant, and I'm going to read testimony from 20



### someone else. 21

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### But I wanted to tell you that for 26 1



### years I worked fo r Nuclear Regulatory Commission 2



### and retired as a senior executive, and so in the 3


### nuclear industry, we're certainly familiar with 4


### transitions for workers and varying needs for 5



### power and needs for that type of power. 6


### So I'm going to read this morning on 7



### beh alf of Lynn Iser. She as supposed to speak 8


### yesterday but couldn't make it. So on behalf of 9



### Lynn: 10



### "I a m the founder of Elder

- Activists

, a 11



### website that is committed to inspiring, 12


### educating

, and supporting those of us i n the 13



### second half of life to use our life experience 14



### and wisdom to create a thriving and just world 15



### for future generations. 16



### To begin, I am fully supportive of the 17



### EPA's proposed standard
, and I believe that it 18



### should be implemented promptly and without 19


### being weakened in any manner. 20



### As a woman and a mother I am concerned 21



### about leaving a viable planet for future 22

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### generations. I feel the pain of my children

, who 1



### are worried about the multitude of world crises 2



### that they learn about which are caused by climate 3



### change. 4



### Our culture and our n ation uses the 5



### resources of this precious planet solely for our 6



### own use with little thought for the needs of our 7



### children and grandchildren for clean water, clean 8



### air, food, minerals

, and other natural resources 9



### t hat they will also need in order to create 10


### thriving lives for themselves. 11



### Carbon pollution causes climate change, 12


### resulting in more frequent and increasingly 13



### violent extreme weather events, drought, rising 14



### sea level
, and other environmental stressors that 15



### devastate communities, threaten public he alth
, 16



### and destroy and degrade wildlife habitat. These 17



### environmental stressors have an impact on social 18



### issues as well, causing families to experience 19



### food shortages, farmers to lose their crops and 20



### income, mass migrations caused by famine and 21



### drought, amo ng a multitude of socio

- political 22

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### issues that arise from increased climate 1


### instability. 2


### Pennsylvania now creates nearly one 3



### percent of the world's total heat trapping 4



### emission

, far disproportionate to our 5


### population. It is our responsibility, as 6



### educated leaders, to set reasonable carbon 7


### pollution standards for power plants. This will 8



### cut the primary driver of climate change, which 9



### fuels extreme weather that threatens communities 10



### and the public health with increasing costs and 11


### worsening impacts. Of cour se, climate change 12



### deniers want you to distrust the science and 13


### ignore the impacts and costs of climate change 14



### already being felt by communities and wildlife 15



### across the country. I urge you to support the 16



### proposed standard and thank you for this 17


### opportunit y to be heard today. 18



### In our decision making we do not factor 19



### in the cost of pollution, waste, or our over use 20



### of natural resources. W e do not consider the 21



### issues of sustainability so that future 22

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### generations can have the same level of natural 1



### resources a s we do. O ur thinking is shortsighted 2



### and frankly selfish. " 3


### That last remark is from Lynn Iser. I 4



### want to make that clear. 5


### Thank you very much for this opportunity. 6



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you both, and my 7



### thanks to Ms. McNulty and Ms. Iser. Thank you. 8


### Next I'd like to call Jonathan Gray and 9



### Jim Britsch. 10



### Mr. Gray, when you're ready. 11


### MR. GRAY: My name is Jonathan Gray, G

- r

12



### a

- y. I've been a resident of Pi ttsburgh for 13



### three years, and I was born and raised in Western 14



### Colorado. 15



### When I sat down last n ight to write this 16


### testimony, I was deeply conflicted as to what to 17



### talk about. I'm the grandchild of u nited m ine 18



### w orkers . I'm a staffer for a statewide 19



### environmental advocacy organization, and u ntil my 20



### term expired this morning , I was the Vice 21


### Organizin g Chair of Fi ght Back Pittsburgh, the 22

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### community union of United Steelworkers Local 1



### 3657. 2



### All of these experiences color my 3



### thoughts on this rule, but I feel that I would 4



### do best to speak as just an individual and as 5



### someone who has seen firsthand what g lobal 6


### warming means for our environment. 7


### Growing up in Colorado, my winters were 8



### spent snowboarding

, and my summers camping. I 9



### remember going to Bear Lake in Rocky Mountain 10



### National Park as a child and playing in the 11



### woods. Now those woods have been de vastated by 12



### Mountain Pine Beetles, beetles that used to be 13



### kept in check by cold and harsh Colorado winters 14



### that no longer happen. 15



### W e've lost millions of acres of Ponderosa 16



### and Lodgepole pines, and the gorgeous views I had 17



### as a child have been replaced b y miles of rotting 18



### wood. 19



### The ski resorts I grew up on see less 20



### and less snowfall every winter, and the shortened 21

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### ski seasons have put friends who rely on those 1



### tourists out of work. 2


### Worst still, the front range of the 3


### Rockies where my grandparents liv ed spends months 4


### out of every summer blanketed in soot and smoke 5


### from forest fires that rage out of control, fires 6



### that are sped up from a drought that I don't even 7


### remember the beginning of. 8


### And the city of Boulder where many of my 9



### friends have lived was all but wiped off the map 10


### by floods that feel like something straight out 11



### of the Book of Genesis. 12


### This EPA has acknowledged all of these 13


### events, and they've rightly identified that all 14


### of this is being worsened by climate change. The 15



### science on this is clear. Unless we act now, 16


### this is only the beginning of the horrifying 17


### impacts that my generation, our children, and our 18


### grandchildren will have to live with, unless we 19



### manage to act now. 20


### I support this proposal to limit carbon 21


### pollution from the largest contributors to this 22

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### pollution, and I do so as an environmentalist, a 1


### man from a union family, and an advocate for the 2


### rights of all people in this country to enjoy the 3


### planet that we live on. 4


### I applaud the EPA for taking this step, 5



### and I only can pray t hat it isn't too little, too 6



### late. 7



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, Mr. Gray. 8



### Mr. Britsch? 9


### MR. BRITSCH: My name is Jim Britsch. 10



### That's spelled B

- r

- i

- t

- s

- c

- h. I'm here speaking 11



### on behalf of Local 29 of the International 12



### Brotherhood of Electrical Workers and i ts 101 13


### members that work in our coal power stations. 14



### We're here today because our members are 15


### concerned about the loss of their jobs due to the 16



### EPA's proposed Clean Power Plan. 17



### The IBEW estimates that the Clean Power 18


### Plan could kill 52,000 direct jobs an d more than 19


### 100,000 associated positions by the year 2020. 20



### The shutdown of the Elrama Power Station, 21


### which we represented, and the Mitchell Power 22

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### Station a couple miles down the road from it, has 1


### had a very negative effect on the West Elizabeth, 2



### Penns ylvania community. 3


### The local Sunoco gas station is 4


### struggling to stay open. Johnny's Drive

- In 5


### restaurant is just a couple breakfasts away from 6


### closing its doors. Scotty's Bar and Grill, known 7



### for its fish sandwiches

-- they used to order 40 8



### pounds of fish a week

-- they don't even order 9



### anymore. 10


### These businesses thrived for years, and 11



### that's not to mention the workers in the two 12


### closed plants. These aren't just numbers. These 13


### are people with families; people with good life

14


### sustaining jobs; people th at spend their money in 15


### the community. They shop for clothes, go to the 16


### restaurants, send their kids to the school. They 17


### pay their taxes. These are the things that 18


### maintain the economy in these local communities. 19


### The truckers hauling the coal and ash, 20


### the barges going up and down the river hauling 21



### coal, the contracted craft workers that come in 22

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### to work in the plants during their outages, these 1


### are all lost with the closing of a plant. 2


### EPA projects that this rule will cause 3


### the loss of 41 to 49 gigawatt s of coal

- generating 4


### capacity by the year 2020. These retirements are 5


### in addition to the 92 gigawatts of coal capacity 6


### that the EPA is already projecting will shut down 7


### between 2012 and 2020, due in large part to the 8


### compliance with the 2012 Mercury and A ir Toxic 9



### Rule. 10


### We believe that these things raise 11


### serious, serious concerns for the reliability of 12


### the electric power supplies. Gas alone is not 13


### the answer. Last winter during our polar vortex 14


### here in western Pennsylvania, natural gas wasn't 15



### available f or our gas power stations to run. 16



### What would we have done without the coal and 17



### nuclear stations that we have? 18


### America needs a genuine bipartisan energy 19



### plan from Congress that grows our economy, 20


### renovates our aged energy infrastructure, reduces 21



### carbon em issions, and sets a realistic plan for 22

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### cleaner air. Politicians from both parties need 1


### to come together and craft a serious blueprint 2



### that can meet these goals. 3



### Our recommendations that we have include 4


### providing credit to states that have already 5



### reduced carbon emissions to help meet EPA targets 6


### and also a delay in the implementation of the 7


### Clean Power Plan to give states and utilities 8


### adequate time to implement compliance with these 9


### strategies. 10


### Thank you for allowing me to express my 11



### concerns on this im portant issue today. 12


### MR. KOERBER: Thank you, sir. Thank you 13


### both for being here. 14


### I'd like to call Greg Winks and Nichole 15



### Catino. 16


### Is Ms. Catino in the room? No? Okay. 17


### Mr. Winks, it looks like you're flying 18



### solo. 19



### MR. WINKS: Okay. Thank you. I'm here 20


### to speak on behalf of Gil Frost, who is from 21

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### Glenside, Pennsylvania, and was not able to 1


### attend in person today. 2



### "I am Gil Frost, a resident of Glenside, 3


### Pennsylvania, and proud to be the proprietor of 4


### Frost Contracting, a h ome r e pair and i mprovemen t 5



### firm. 6



### I completely support the EPA's proposed 7


### standard, and it should be implemented as soon as 8


### possible without being diluted in any way. I 9


### could not come to Pittsburgh today to read my 10


### testimony in person because I am busy running my 11



### business. On reflection, it is best that I do my 12


### part to limit greenhouse gases and avoid the 13


### extra carbon pollution of a 600

- mile roundtrip. 14


### I am not alone in my concern about carbon 15


### pollution. Frost Contracting always encourages 16



### our clients to enhance their home s and businesses 17


### in ways that decrease a building's energy 18


### footprint, thus, decreasing their carbon 19


### footprint. We are always pleasantly surprised by 20


### our clients' openness to these suggestions and 21

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### eagerness to carry them out, even if they are 1


### paying a bit more upfront." 2


### Mr. Frost continues by saying, "My 3


### customer simply reflect the mood of the American 4


### people who are ready, even yearning, for the 5


### government to lead on climate change. 6



### Researchers from Harvard and Yale conducted a 7



### pol l and observed that a m ajority of US citizens 8


### support clean energy and climate change policies. 9


### The researchers found that the average US citizen 10


### is willing to pay $162 more per year in higher 11


### electricity bills for clean energy. 12


### I'm excited by what I see in my clients 13



### and what the research tells us about the American 14


### people. Citizens are motivated to address 15


### climate change, and they're willing to support 16



### their concerns with their wallets. 17


### It is helpful that people are taking 18


### steps to reduce the carbon footprints, their 19



### homes, and are willing to pay for cleaner energy, 20


### but it's not nearly enough. Coal

- fired power 21


### plant emit carbon dioxide, the primary driver of 22

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### climate change into the atmosphere, and citizens 1


### are powerless to limit it, except for their 2



### Environmental Protection Agency, which has the 3


### authority to do something. 4



### It seems the onus has been on individuals 5


### to limit their carbon footprint while power 6


### plants refuse to do their part that is neither 7


### right nor sustainable. It is time for the EPA to 8



### do what it has the aut hority to do, set 9


### reasonable limits on carbon pollution from power 10



### plants. 11


### Please implement the proposed standard as 12


### soon as possible without making changes to it at 13



### all. Thank you." 14


### This is from Gil Frost. Thank you very 15



### much. 16



### MR. KOERBER: My thanks to you, my thanks 17



### to Mr. Frost. 18



### MR. WINKS: Okay. 19



### MR. KOERBER: Thank you. 20



### Did Nicole Catino

-- okay. 21

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### Do we have any people in the room who 1


### have signed up to speak? We're going to check 2


### and see if there are any more speaker cards 3


### coming up. Please bear with us while we wait. 4



### Thank you. 5



### We're back in session. Ms. Catino, 6



### whenever you're ready. 7



### MS. CATINO: Sure. Okay. Well, hello. 8


### My name is Nicole Catino. That's spelled, N

- i

- c

9



### o

- l

- e, C

- a

- t

- i

- n

- o, and I recently moved to 10


### Pittsburgh fro m a small town about an hour north 11


### of Philadelphia. So I'm Pennsylvania born, 12



### raised, and educated. 13


### After graduating from Lafayette College 14


### last year with a degree in engineering, I worked 15


### as a canvasser for Pen Environment and Pen Perg 16


### (phonetic). And when I wasn't busy traveling the 17


### world, in my spare time I also worked for Green 18


### Mountain Energy, which is an electric generation 19


### supplier that provides clean renewable energy to 20


### my fellow Pennsylvanians and also my fellow US 21

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### citizens in the other states i n which they 1



### operate. 2


### So what brought me to Pittsburgh just 3


### three months ago is my current job as a Green 4


### Cities sustainability fellow with the Student 5


### Conservation Association and partnership with 6


### AmeriCorps , and in this position I work with Pen 7



### Future, which is a statewide membership base 8


### nonprofit that fights for clean air, land, and 9


### water for policies at both the state and local 10


### level. And more specifically, I'm tasked with 11


### leading their Black and Gold City goes Green 12


### campaign, which is a project that works to reduce 13


### carbon pollution from residential sources here in 14


### Pittsburgh by promoting energy efficiency and 15


### renewable energy in my neighbors' homes. 16



### And although I'm proud of these 17


### organizations and the work that they do, the 18


### views that I'm represen ting here are my own. 19


### So as you might have guessed from the 20


### brief overview of my resume and background, this 21


### is an issue that is very near and dear to my 22

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### heart, and I want to thank you guys for all the 1


### work that you put into the Clean Power Plan and 2



### also for taking the time to hear concerns and 3


### perspectives from us common folk, regardless of 4



### our stance on the issue. 5



### As for me, I fully support the EPA's 6


### proposed standard, and I want it to be 7


### implemented as soon as possible without it being 8



### altered or weake ned in any way

-- well, not 9



### altered but not weakened. 10


### And so the reasons I support this plan 11


### are many, most of which you've probably heard 12


### thousands of times by now. From the public 13



### health and economic factors to environmental 14


### sustainability, the current blank check that is 15


### given to major carbon polluters negatively 16


### impacts all areas of our lives. 17


### From the surface, the electricity 18


### generated from fossil fuel seems cheap because of 19


### the infrastructure already in place and the 20



### billions of dollars in subsidie s that go to 21

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### support the industry but is actually costing us 1


### more in the long run. 2


### And also, during my undergraduate 3


### studies, I had the opportunity to work on a 4


### project that was titled Air Quality in Lehigh 5


### Valley, and this was of particular importance to 6


### me because being as asthmatic I was interested in 7


### how growing up in my environment influenced and 8



### effected my health, and the cost of my well

- being 9



### for life and for future. 10


### And just the estimated cost of 11


### implementing this plan, which ranged from $7.3 to 12


### $8.8 billion are significantly overshadowed by 13



### the climate and health benefits that are 14



### associated with it, which are estimated to be 15


### between $55 and $93 billion by 2013, a nd that 16


### positive return on investments will only drive 17


### further innovation in energy efficiency and clean 18


### energy technologies ; and with the full adoption 19


### of the clean power plan, the United States has 20


### the opportunity to be a global leader in 21

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### addressing climate change and setting the 1



### standard for a sustainable future for us all. 2



### And you 've heard the statistics. The 3


### science is there to prove it, and now it's time 4


### to act on climate. My mother always told me to 5


### leave the place better than when you found it, 6


### and whether that be my room, or our campsite, or 7


### the world, it is our responsibili ty, both 8


### individually and collectively, to care for each 9


### other and the Earth, which gives us life so that 10


### the next person can enjoy it as much as we did. 11


### And although we still have a long way to 12


### go, the Clean Power Plan is a great necessary and 13


### logical fi rst step in making positive change. 14


### So I want to thank you again for your 15


### time and the opportunity to share and express 16


### these views, and I hope you all have a fantastic 17



### rest of the day. Thank you. 18



### MR. KOERBER: Same to you, and thank you 19


### for being here today. 20



### MS. CATINO: Thank you. 21

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### MR. KOERBER: We're checking to see if 1



### there are more speakers. 2



### (Off the record from 11:17 a.m. to 11:21 3



### a.m.) 4



### MR. KOERBER: Okay. Thank you for your 5


### patience. I'm told we have no more speakers this 6


### morning. We'll b reak early for lunch. So have a 7


### good lunch. We will re

- adjourn in this room at 8



### 1:00 p.m. Thank you all. 9



### (Off the record from 11:22 a.m. to 1:06 10



### p.m.) 11


### MR. HARVEY: My name is Reid Harvey. I'm 12



### the Division Director for EPA's Clean Air Markets 13



### Division

. I am the Chair in this afternoon's 14


### hearing. So thank you for coming today. 15


### Joining me on the panel to my left are 16


### Donna Mastro, EPA's Region 3, with the Office of 17


### Regional Counsel, and on my right is Andrew 18


### Kreider, also EPA Region 3 in the Air Divisio n. 19


### So we're here today to listen to your 20



### comments on our two proposed rules to reduce 21

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### carbon pollution from power plants. Both of 1



### those rules were announced on June 2, 2014. 2



### As you may know, power plants are the 3



### largest source of CO 2 

### emissions in the Un ited 4


### States, accounting for roughly a third of all 5


### domestic gas emissions. 6



### So the two rules are

-- the first one is 7


### our proposed Clean Power Plan for Existing Power 8


### Plants, and as you may know, this consists of two 9


### main parts, state specific goals that would lower 10


### carbon pollution from power plants and then 11


### guidelines that would help states develop their 12


### plans for meeting those goals. 13


### That proposal gives states flexibility in 14


### determining how to meet their goals. States 15


### choose what goes into their plan s that show how 16


### they will achieve the needed reductions and meet 17


### their goals by 2030. 18


### The second rule is EPA's Proposed Rule to 19



### address carbon dioxide emission from modified and 20


### reconstructed power plants. This rule would set 21


### emission limits for two grou ps of power plants, 22

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### those that make physical or operational chances 1


### that increase the plants maximum achievable 2


### hourly rate of emissions and those that replace 3



### components to such an extent that the new 4


### components exceed 50 percent of the capital cost 5



### of an entirely new comparable facility. 6


### So if you'd like more details on either 7



### of those proposed rules, there are fact sheets 8


### available in the building here. I don't see them 9



### -- 10


### MR. KREIDER: They're in the back. 11



### MR. HARVEY: Okay, great. They're 12



### blocked by the pillar. 13


### Today's hearing is one of four public 14


### hearings across the country on the two rules. 15



### We've had tremendous interest in each of these 16


### hearings. So I'd like to thank you for being 17


### here to share your comments with us. 18



### Before we get started, I'd like to go 19


### through a few housekeeping items and ground 20



### rules. 21

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### So, first, if you haven't already, please 1


### be sure you've checked in at the registration 2


### desk, even if you're not planning to speak today. 3


### If you signed up in advance to speak but haven't 4



### told us that you're here, please step to the 5


### registration desk and let the EPA staff know that 6


### you've arrived. 7


### So if you're a speaker, you were given a 8


### room letter when you checked in, and this is Room 9


### B. So if you're not in the right room, this is 10



### the right time to switch. 11


### So how is this going to work? I'm going 12


### to call speakers up in pairs, and you'll come up 13


### and sit over here together. When I call on you 14


### to speak, first state your name and then spell it 15


### for the court reporter. Your comments will be 16



### transcribed, and the record will reflect that 17


### transcription in the proposed rule. 18


### Each speaker will have five minutes to 19


### give comments, and we'll have a light, which 20


### Donna Mastro will be operating initially. And 21


### the light will turn from green to yell ow, and 22

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### that means you have one minute remaining. When 1


### it turns red, that means it's time to wrap up, 2


### and when it's flashing red and beeping, then you 3



### have to stop. 4


### When you're finished speaking, please 5


### remain at the table until the person next to you 6



### ha s also completed his or her testimony, and then 7


### we'll ask clarifying questions after that. And 8



### then after the two of you have gone, I'll call up 9


### the next pair of speakers and so on. 10


### If you have any written materials for us, 11


### you can give that to the staff at the 12


### registration desk before you leave today. It's 13


### also helpful if you have an extra copy for our 14



### court reporter as well. 15


### So just to remind everyone, to be fair, 16


### we're going to strictly enforce our five

- minute 17


### limit. If you have additional comments you'd 18


### like to make, you can submit them in writing. I 19


### want to assure you that we give as much 20



### consideration to comments that we receive in 21


### writing as we do to comments that we receive at 22

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### hearings like this one today. So if you have 1


### more you'd like to say , we look forward to 2


### receiving your comments, and we will review them. 3


### There's plenty of time to get those 4



### written comments in, and there are also comment 5


### cards available at the registration desk. 6


### Comments must be received by October 16, 7



### 2014, and we wi ll put any written comments 8


### submitted today in the official docket for the 9


### proposed rule. The instructions for submitting 10


### written comments in other ways are available at 11


### the table near the registration desk. 12


### We're going to be holding this meeting 13



### until 8:00 p.m. tonight. We're going to take 14



### short breaks throughout the day as needed. I 15


### will take a dinner break probably between 5:00 16



### and 6:00 p.m. 17


### So if you do have questions during the 18


### day, please see the staff at the registration 19



### desk, and someone will help you. 20


### And so finally, and most importantly, I 21



### want to ask each of you to be respectful of 22

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### everyone who speaks today. We have people with a 1


### wide variety of views in the audience, and we 2


### want to hear from all of you. So to be fair to 3



### everyone, we as k that everyone listen quietly. 4


### Even applause can slow things down, and we want 5


### to hear from everyone who has signed up to speak. 6


### So thank you, again, for taking the time 7



### today to share your comments on EPA's proposed 8



### rules, and let's get started. 9



### Our f irst two speakers are Stephen 10


### Whitworth and Jonathan Gensler. If you could 11


### join us at the table. 12



### And we'll start with Mr. Whitworth. Mr. 13



### Gensler has been seated. I'm not sure who is 14



### who. 15



### MR. WHITWORTH: Good afternoon. My name 16


### is Stephen Whitworth, W

- h

- i

- t

- w

- o

- r

- t

- h, and I'm 17



### Director of Environmental Services for Ameren 18


### Corporation. 19


### Ameren is a public utility holding 20


### company with electric and gas utility operating 21

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### subsidiaries serving over three million customers 1



### in Illinois and Missouri. 2



### Ameren believes the proposed rule is 3


### legally and technically flawed, will result in 4


### unnecessary significant cost increases to our 5


### customers and business, cause job loss, and 6


### damage the economy. However, before I discuss 7



### our concerns, I will describe what Ameren has 8


### been doing to protect the environment and our 9


### plans going forward. 10


### For many years, Ameren has been taking 11


### steps to reduce emissions with the goal of 12


### transitioning our fleet to a cleaner, more 13


### diverse portfolio. We have installed scrubbers 14



### and other p ollution control devices, improved 15


### unit efficiency, converted landfill gas to 16


### energy, contracted for wind power, expanded our 17


### nuclear capacity, promoted and are installing 18


### solar power, increased hydro capacity, and 19


### implemented significant energy efficiency 20


### programs in both Illinois and Missouri. 21

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### We have made progress in reducing our 1


### carbon footprint and are executing a 20

- year plan 2


### designed to reduce emissions even further in a 3


### responsible manner. Our plan involves adding 4


### more renewables and combined cyc le natural gas, 5


### increasing energy efficiency, retiring coal 6


### plants at the end of their useful lives, and 7


### replacing them with cleaner resources, as well as 8


### retaining options for greater levels of nuclear 9


### generation. 10


### Our plan can achieve a 30 percent 11



### red uction from 2005 emission levels over a 12


### slightly longer time frame, at a cost to 13


### consumers that we currently estimate at nearly $4 14


### billion lower than the cost of EPA's proposed 15



### rule for Ameren customers alone. 16


### Turning now to EPA's proposal, Ameren 17



### recomme nds that EPA define and limit the emission 18


### standards based solely on what is achievable at 19


### existing power plants. States should then be 20


### given the flexibility to develop any programs 21



### that achieve an equivalent emissions reductions

. 22

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### If EPA rejects this pro posal, numerous other 1


### changes should be made, and I will highlight a 2



### couple of them now. 3



### First and foremost, EPA should eliminate 4


### the aggressive interim goals that start in 2020. 5


### Failure to make this adjustment will cause Ameren 6


### to incur $2 billion in c apital investments by 7


### 2020, which will in part lead to nearly 4 billion 8


### of higher rates for customers through 2034. We 9


### recommend you replace the interim requirements 10


### with a directive to states to develop nine 11


### binding emission reduction milestones that are 12


### reasonably achievable and reflect the state's 13


### view of the appropriate glide path to the final 14


### state reduction goal. This single action will 15


### greatly reduce the cost of the rule and will 16


### provide greater flexibility to states. 17


### We also believe that the targ et 18


### compliance date should not be set in stone at 19


### 2030. Rather, states should be given the 20


### flexibility to extend the date in order to allow 21


### the orderly transition of generation fleets. 22

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### This will help mitigate the potential for 1


### reliability concerns and rat e shock, which would 2


### be particularly harmful to our fixed and low 3



### income customers. 4


### For Ameren, the compliance date would be 5


### 2035, yet significant reductions would occur 6


### prior to that time. These changes would save 7


### Ameren's customers nearly $4 billion wh en 8


### compared to the proposed EPA rule and still 9


### achieve similar greenhouse gas reductions. 10



### Ameren also believes the rule will not 11


### properly credit coal plant retirements that are 12


### not replaced with new generation under a rate

13


### based compliance program. It is assumed that 14



### under a rate

- based program both emissions of CO 2 15


### and the megawatts generated from retired plants 16



### are removed from the emission rate calculation 17


### when determining compliance. 18


### This approach does not properly reflect 19


### the emission reduction ga in because it provides 20


### only a minor reduction in the overall emission 21


### rate. In order to properly reflect the benefits 22

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### of coal plant retirements, these units should be 1


### treated as zero emitting units, whereby the 2


### associated megawatts remain in the denominat or, 3


### similar to the treatment of energy efficiency. 4



### In addition, Ameren believes the rule suffers 5


### from overaggressive assumptions about the 6


### reduction potential in each of the four proposed 7


### building blocks contained in the rule. However, 8



### I'll focus on two of them. 9



### With respect to b uilding b lock one, EPA 10



### has overestimated the amount of reduction that 11



### can be achieved by efficiency i mprovements on 12



### exist i ng EGUs. Many companies, including Ameren , 13



### already engage in the best practices built into 14



### block one, and the level of any additional 15



### reduction i s limited. Ameren has also completed 16


### improvements to enhance plant efficiency and 17



### reduce emissions. The additional two percent 18



### reduction that EPA has included in the target is 19



### also simply not achievable. 20



### With re spect to building block two, 21



### Ameren does not own existing natural gas combined 22

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### cycle g enerating unit. Moreover, certain of 1



### these generating units may have permit 2



### limitations, warranty and/or other contractual 3



### arrangements that preclude their operation as 4



### assumed i n the proposed rule. 5



### In addition, the proposal would require 6



### the states to achieve the emission goal via 7



### i ncreased d i spatc h ; however, in RTO markets
, i t 8



### i s FERC, not states that regulate the RTOs. 9



### Thus, the proposed rule imposes a requireme nt on 10



### states that they do not have the authority to 11



### i mp l ement. 12



### In conclusion, Ameren believes the 13


### proposed rule is legally and technically flawed 14


### and will result in unnecessary significant cost 15



### increases to our customers and business, cause 16


### job losses, an d damage the economy. 17


### We'll be filing comments which will 18


### provide greater detail on all issues of concern, 19


### and we urge EPA to read them carefully and give 20



### due consideration. 21



### Thank you very much. 22

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### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 1


### MR. GENSLER: My name is Jonat han 2



### Gensler, G

- e

- n

- s

- l

- e

- r. Thank you for the 3


### opportunity to testify today. 4


### I'm going to be specifically on the 5


### national security threats posed by climate change 6



### and how the proposed carbon standards and the 7



### Clean Power Plan will make us safer as a n ation 8


### while promoting global stability and economic 9


### opportunity. 10


### I'm a former captain in the United States 11



### Army, a veteran of the Iraq War. I had the 12


### distinct honor of fighting alongside some of the 13


### best women and men in this country during two 14



### combat to urs in Iraq. 15



### Just like those who served before me, I 16


### joined the military to protect my country and 17


### because I believed that the opportunities and 18



### liberties that we hold dear should be available 19



### everywhere. 20



### It was in these men and women of the 21



### greatest gen eration as they beat back from the 22

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### most ruthless tyranny that the modern world have 1


### ever seen in World War II. Emerging victorious 2


### then, they proceeded to rebuilt Europe and the 3


### world by promoting freedom and democracy for all, 4


### even while staring down the Soviet threat. 5


### Although today's world is very different 6


### than it was back then, we must be prepared to 7


### employ that same strategy of setting aside self

8


### interest and confronting threats to global 9


### security. I say "we" specifically because this 10



### new challeng e we face will require not only 11


### American action but American leadership. 12


### Climate change is the most urgent, 13


### creeping, and insidious global threat that we 14


### face today. It is a silent enemy that 15


### exacerbates every single challenge to global 16


### security and pros perity because of the way that 17



### it creates hotspots, and for extremism to take 18


### foot and fuel instability. 19


### Around the globe, we are already seeing 20


### rising sea levels, and there's increased 21


### frequency and intensity of extreme weather events 22

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### like droughts, fl oods, storms, wildfires. These 1


### impacts of climate change are already 2


### accelerating and exacerbating the risk of 3


### conflict and destabilizing countries with weak 4


### infrastructure and governance, as we've seen in 5


### the drought in Syria, as we've seen with Typhoon 6


### Haiyan in the Philippines, as we see today in 7



### Sub

- Saharan Africa. 8


### Destabilized states, like Afghanistan in 9


### 2001, Yemen, Somalia, Nigeria today become safe 10


### havens for radical groups. If we've learned 11


### anything from the past decade of war, it is that 12



### far flung areas from across the world can and 13


### will have a direct national security impact here 14



### at home. (Inaudible) think of the 14,000 DOD 15


### personnel that were dispatched to my New York 16


### City home after Hurricane struck, the 12,000 that 17


### were dispatched last ye ar to the Philippines 18


### after Typhoon Haiyan, or the once every two weeks 19


### global request for humanitarian assistance that 20


### the Department of Defense receives somewhere 21


### around the globe. The pace of that and indeed 22

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### the cost of that in both blood and treasure is 1


### only likely to go up. 2


### That is why the EPA's standards to curb 3


### emissions for power plants is so critical. It 4


### represents the largest action taken by any 5


### government to address the threat of climate 6


### change, and is a sort of bold transiting action 7



### that is expected of the United States in response 8


### to a challenge and is certain to reap us huge 9



### rewards. 10


### Make no mistake, it's a national security 11


### imperative that we do meet that standard. I know 12



### firsthand the cost of the sacrifice that we stand 13


### poised to make. 14


### I'm a native of southern West Virginia. 15



### I have made the drive down Corridor G from 16


### Charleston to coal country several times. Every 17


### time I do, just before I get into Madison, I 18


### cross a bridge named for Captain Ben Tiffner 19


### (phonetic), a friend of mine, a classmate at 20


### WestPoint, who was killed by a roadside bomb in 21


### Iraq in the winter of 2007. 22

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### Every time I drive down there, I stop and 1


### get out, put my hand on the sign, and think about 2



### Ben. I think about the 93 other WestPoint 3


### graduates that have been kil led in the decade of 4



### war that we had and the thousands and thousands 5



### of other American soldiers, and Marines, and 6



### sailors that have been killed or wounded. 7


### To be sure, those who join the military 8


### know what we're signing up for, and we're 9



### prepared to make that ultimate sacrifice in 10



### defense of our nation. But as Americans, we have 11


### a responsibility to do everything we can to 12


### ensure we do not send them into harm's way 13


### unnecessarily. 14



### If we fail to take action to combat 15


### climate change, if we continue to dither and 16


### delay, we are guaranteed to face that increase in 17


### global stability and greater risk, requiring our 18


### troops to defend the peace of volatile regions of 19


### the world. I keep asking myself, how can we 20



### continue to ask them and their families to bear 21



### that burd en? 22

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### This plan is a powerful step in the right 1


### direction. It puts the work and the hard 2



### decisions were it belongs, at the state level. 3


### They have to figure this out. This is a 4


### tremendous step of leadership by the EPA. It's 5


### making the states do something hard that they 6



### don't want to do, but that they have to do. They 7



### have the resources. They have the knowledge. 8



### They have the local know

- how and the local 9


### awareness. They have to do this work. 10


### How can anyone continue to stubbornly 11


### oppose economic growth at home, building a better 12


### world for generations to come, and working for 13


### global security? We simply must. We simply must 14



### act. Thank you. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 16


### Now, we'll ask if we have any clarifying 17


### questions. Thank you both very much. 18



### We loo k forward to hearing our next 19


### speakers, who are Robert Mitchell and Rebecca 20



### Studer. 21



### When you're ready. 22

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### MR. MITCHELL: All set. Okay. Thank you 1


### for hearing my statement today. My name is 2



### Robert Mitchell, M

- i

- t

- c

- h

- e

- l

- l. 3


### As a scientist and engineer with graduate 4


### degrees in physics and electrical engineering 5


### from Carnegie Mellon, I've been studying the 6


### climate change issue with increasing interest and 7


### concern over about the past five years. 8


### And I briefly want to make three main 9


### points. The first poi nt is about the

-- what I 10


### see as the role of our government. Our nation is 11


### founded on the principle of balancing individual 12


### freedom of action on the one hand against the 13


### need for effective national governance on the 14


### other hand. We don’t want excessive go vernment 15



### that intrudes on our individual liberties, but 16


### neither could we accept the weak government that 17


### was created after the Revolutionary War by the 18



### Articles of Confederation. 19



### And so the founders of our nation 20


### produced a Constitution that established a 21


### strengthened government that seeks to provide for 22

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### the common defense and promote the general 1



### welfare. 2


### The founders recognized the need to 3


### address national level priorities such as defense 4


### that require large resources and long

- term 5


### strategic planning. Th ey understood that 6


### individuals, corporations, and even states cannot 7


### effectively deal with such resources or time 8



### scales. 9


### My second point is the threat of climate 10


### change. We are now facing a problem that poses a 11



### great challenge to our general welfare and also, 12



### as we shall see, to our common defense. 13



### As the national and world scientific 14


### community has been telling us for more than two 15



### decades now, the emission of infrared active 16


### gases such as carbon dioxide is causing a range 17



### of harmful consequences. T hese include many 18


### things: increasingly severe heat and drought

-- 19



### as we saw in 2011 in the Midwest and we're 20


### currently seeing in California

-- the loss of 21


### glaciers and mountain snow packs that provides 22

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### water for drinking and for irrigation, rising sea 1



### lev els that threaten our coastal cities, more 2


### severe storms like Sandy that are amplified 3


### further by the sea level rise, and acidification 4



### of our oceans that threatens the very root of the 5


### world's food chain. Each of these consequences 6


### alone is daunting, but taken together, I feel 7


### that they represent a truly frightening threat to 8



### our future, welfare, and safety. 9


### Perhaps the Arctic ice cap provides the 10


### clearest warning, as its September volume is now 11


### about 25 percent of what it was just 40 years 12



### ago. We know this from both satellite imagery 13



### that shows the extent of the ice and from our 14


### Navy submarine's sonar measurements of ice 15


### thickness dating back to the 1950's. 16



### The No rthwest P assage that explorers 17


### sought for centuries is now a reality. Does 18



### anyone really believe that this could be a 19


### coincidence? And according to the Defense 20


### Department's 2014 Quadrennial Defense Review, 21


### "The pressures caused by climate change are 22

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### threat multipliers that will aggravate stressors 1


### abroad such as poverty, environmental 2



### degrad ation, political instability, and social 3



### tensions, conditions that can enable terrorist 4


### activity and other forms of violence. 5



### All of these consequences amount to 6


### nothing less, I believe, than a war on our 7


### children, our grandchildren, and the generations 8


### that follow. It's a moral imperative that we 9



### ensure that our descendants will have the same 10


### fair shot at prosperity and freedom that we have 11


### enjoyed. 12


### So my third point is about the need for 13


### government leadership on climate change. And so 14



### EPA, the govern ment, is acting now as I believe 15



### the nation's founders intended to defend the 16


### general welfare of the national against an 17


### ominous threat. This action is necessary because 18



### the threat involves both time scales and 19


### resources that require a national level resp onse. 20


### It's only fair to say that these actions 21


### will cause some to lose their jobs, but if we 22

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### don't take action now, many, many more will be 1


### harmed. And while jobs will be lost in the coal 2


### and oil industries, many jobs will be created in 3



### the renewable ene rgy sector. 4


### Our nation has flourished, not by 5


### clinging to outmoded ideas or harmful 6


### technologies, but by harnessing our creativity to 7



### lead the world toward a safer and more prosperous 8



### future. 9


### The proposed EPA guidelines are a small, 10


### very important step t oward addressing the most 11



### critical, technical, and ethical issue of this 12


### century. They represent the beginning of what 13


### our government must do in confronting a problem 14


### that transcends individual, corporate, or state 15


### capabilities. The founders of our natio n would 16



### expect no less. 17


### And just to add one

-- I guess my time is 18


### up, but, if anything, I would say that the 19


### regulations don't go far enough, and I think when 20


### people look back in a couple decades or so, 21


### they'll probably recognize that. Thank you. 22

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### MR. HA RVEY: Thank you, Mr. Mitchell. 1



### Ms. Studer? 2


### MS. STUDER: Yes. My name is Rebecca 3



### Studer. That's S

- t

- u

- d

- e

- r, and I speak today 4


### for myself and the individuals belonging to the 5


### Green Sanctuary Committee of the First Unitarian 6


### Church of Pittsburgh and the Environmental 7


### Justice Group of the Unitarian Universalists, 8


### Pennsylvania Legislative Advocacy Network, who 9


### agreed to support this testimony. They are 10



### listed below. 11


### One of our common principles is to affirm 12



### and promote respect for the interdependent web of 13


### all existence of which we are a part. Thus, we 14


### support the proposed decreases in carbon 15


### pollutants from existing power plants as a 16


### critical way of moving toward healthier lives and 17



### a more sustainable environment for all. 18


### I'm a retired physiologist wit h many 19


### years researching how our bodies work and what 20


### can be done to return our systems to their normal 21


### function when things go wrong. I'm also a 22

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### grandmother with serious concerns about the world 1


### we are leaving to our children and grandchildren. 2



### The prop osed changes in the existing 3


### power plant carbon emissions can have important 4



### beneficial effects on our environment to diminish 5



### current adverse health effects of these 6


### pollutants as well as begin to affect changes 7


### that will minimize future, long

- term climat e 8


### change for a more livable planet. 9


### The people of western Pennsylvania are no 10


### strangers to the negative health effects of 11


### carbon pollutants. Although the quality of our 12


### air has improved substantially over the past 13



### decades, the incidents of asthma in our children 14


### is still higher in many communities than the 15


### national average. The EPA estimates a decrease 16


### of up to 150,000 asthma attacks per year in 17



### children once the new standards are in effect. 18


### This would be a great important in the quality of 19



### life for man y children in our area and across the 20



### nation. 21

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### Children suffering from asthma often fall 1


### behind their piers due to frequent school 2


### absences. The medications they use to control 3


### their asthma can impact their ability to focus 4


### and retain information, thereby putting them at 5


### risk for failure in school. Frequent visits to 6



### emergency rooms due to severe asthma attacks are 7



### common and increase healthcare costs. 8


### Statistics show that in Pennsylvania, 9


### asthma disproportionately impacts black, non

10


### Hispanic children. CDC control data from 2011 11


### reported that across Pennsylvania the asthma 12


### prevalence rate for white, non

- Hispanic children 13


### was 10.9 percent while the rate for black, non

14


### Hispanic children is over twice that at 24.7 15


### perceive. It is estimate that more than 70 16


### percent of the African

- American population in the 17


### United States live within 30 miles of a power 18


### plants. These data highlight another moral and 19


### ethical issue associated with pollution from 20



### power plants and other sources. Those most 21


### impacted are often min ority groups and 22

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### economic ally disadvantaged people with limited 1


### resources and options for relocating away from 2



### the most polluted areas. 3


### Locally, Dr. Debra Gentile, Director of 4


### Research in Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology at 5


### Allegheny General Hospital state s that it's been 6


### widely reported that 50 percent of Pittsburgh 7


### public school students are using a rescue inhaler 8


### for asthma. She is beginning a study to 9


### rigorously document the prevalence of asthma in 10



### several school districts with different 11



### socioeconomic demographics and air quality. 12



### The short

- term costs of asthma and other 13


### respiratory diseases in terms of emergency room 14


### visits, workdays lost, and school days lost is 15


### significant. Perhaps more important are the long 16


### term consequences for individuals' qual ity of 17


### life and our and other regions development and 18



### deployment of a healthy, educated, well

- trained 19



### workforce. 20


### I don't have asthma, but I did grow up 21


### watching an uncle struggle with the disease. And 22

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### while current treatments are certainly superior 1



### to wh at was available at that time, the knowledge 2


### and technology is available to change that. 3



### Failure to minimize known factors that cause 4


### disease is unethical, leaving people to deal with 5


### chronic respiratory and other debilitating 6



### conditions all their lives, the technology to 7



### diminish disease

- causing pollution from existing 8


### power plants and to expand generation of electric 9



### power from cleaner renewable sources. 10


### Southwestern Pennsylvania is also no 11


### stranger to the consequences of a decline in a 12


### regions major economic driver. However, as 13


### during the decades following the loss of most of 14


### our steel industry, I have confidence in our 15


### ability to use existing technology for new energy 16


### production and deliver alternatives and generate 17


### new job opportunities and health ier environments 18


### to employ those whose current jobs will vanish 19


### during the transition to a cleaner power economy. 20


### The Clean Power Plan gives the states 21


### wide latitude in the ways in which the new 22

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### standards are achieved and many states are well 1


### on their way to attaining the new standards 2


### without significant increases in cost to power 3


### for their consumers. We can and we must accept 4


### the challenge to transition from antiquated dirty 5


### power plants to cleaner power generation for 6


### ourselves and our future generatio ns. 7


### I thank you for the opportunity to speak 8



### today. 9



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. Thank you both. 10



### The 11


### MR. MITCHELL: Do we turn hard copies 12


### into somebody here? 13



### MR. HARVEY: I believe at the 14


### registration desk, or you can give them to us; 15



### and we'll take the m downstairs, whichever you 16



### prefer. 17


### One quick question for Ms. Studer. 18



### MS. STUDER: Yes. 19


### MR. HARVEY: I didn't fully capture all 20



### the names of the groups that you are here on 21



### behalf of. 22

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### MS. STUDER: Okay. 1



### MR. HARVEY: Could you repeat those 2


### again? 3



### M S. STUDER: Yes. It's the Green 4


### Sanctuary Committee, First Unitarian Church. I 5


### only speak for individuals in that committee are 6



### listed. 7


### MR. HARVEY: Right. 8


### MS. STUDER: They're listed here. 9


### MR. HARVEY: Right. I see. 10



### MS. STUDER: And the other organ ization 11


### is the Unitarian Universalists. I always think 12



### of it as UUPLAN. So I have to Unitarian 13


### Universalists Pennsylvania Legislative Advocacy 14



### Network. 15



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. 16


### MS. STUDER: Basically it's an 17


### organization that tries to look at current 18


### legisla tion

-- 19


### MR. HARVEY: Right. 20



### MS. STUDER:

-- and trying to support 21


### that, that does improve our environment and 22

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### oppose

-- 1


### MR. HARVEY: Right. 2



### MS. STUDER:

-- what we feel is 3


### detrimental. Most of the issues for people now 4



### focus, of course, on Marcell us shale

-- 5


### MR. HARVEY: Right. 6



### MS. STUDER:

-- drilling in the state. 7


### MR. HARVEY: And these are Pittsburgh 8


### area based or southwestern Pennsylvania based? 9



### MS. STUDER: The church, the Green 10


### Sanctuary Committee is here in Pittsburgh. 11



### MR. HARVEY: I s ee. 12


### MS. STUDER: But it's also part of a 13


### larger Unitarian Universalists Association. So 14


### there are Green Sanctuary congregations scattered 15


### throughout the United States. 16



### MR. HARVEY: I see. 17


### MS. STUDER: The UUPLAN is Pennsylvania, 18



### across all of Pennsylva nia. 19


### MR. HARVEY: Right. 20



### MS. STUDER: Okay. 21



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you very much. 22

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### Any other questions? 1


### Our next speaker today is Edward Wolking, 2



### Jr. And

-- I'm going to pronounce this wrong so I 3


### apologize in advance

-- Jamin Bogi. 4



### MR. BOGI: Jamin. 5



### M R. HARVEY: Jamin, sorry. 6


### So we'll ask Mr. Wolking to speak first. 7


### MR. WOLKING: My name is Edward Wolking, 8



### W

- o

- l

- k

- i

- n

- g. I am an Executive Director of the 9



### Great Lakes Metro Chamber Coalition

. I'm 10


### speaking on behalf of a mega

- regional coalition 11



### of n early 40 chambers of commerce. 12



### The 12

- state Great Lakes trading region 13



### is the heart of our nation's manufacturing base, 14


### accounting for 35 percent of US m anufacturing 15



### output and 40 percent of all US manufacturing 16


### jobs. 17


### We have no quarrel with the object ives of 18


### the proposed rule, but we certainly have 19


### significant concerns of how we get there. We are 20


### concerned that the proposed regulations will 21


### greatly disrupt our manufacturing economy through 22

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### state

- to

- state disparities, higher electricity 1


### prices, price v olatility, and grid 2



### destabilization. 3



### The regulations will have enormous 4


### impacts on coal

- fired power

. Coal provides 5



### affordable, reliable base load power, crucial 6



### for attracting and retaining our manufacturers. 7



### It provides continuous 7 by 24 power that can 8



### be concentrated in large amounts at individual 9



### large sites

. 10



### M anufacturing and coal together are 11


### critically important to our region. 12



### M anufacturing makes up a large part of our 13



### states' gross domestic product, from 12 percent 14



### i n Pennsylvania to 28 perc ent in Indiana and 15


### outside of utilities has the largest economic 16


### multiplier of any of the economic sectors. C oal 17


### provides more than half of the Great Lakes 18


### region's electricity, up to 84 percent in 19



### Indiana. 20



### Coal has many benefits over other 21



### sources of fuel . I t is abundant, easy to 22

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### transport, energy

- dense compared to other 1


### sources, and, again, reliable and affordable. 2



### Although the proposal does not mandate 3


### any single method for meeting the CO 2 

### target, it 4


### clearly directs states to adopt energy policie s 5


### that shift electricity generation from coal to 6


### other sources such as renewables. We recognize 7



### the role that renewable resources can and should 8



### play. In fact, all of our Great Lakes states 9



### have already deployed renewable resources to 10


### support a portion o f their electricity 11


### generation. 12


### Now, these early actions are being used 13


### to support more aggressive targets for increasing 14


### amounts of renewable energy deployments in 15


### generation in the proposed rule. Nearly every 16



### Great Lakes state will need to at least dou ble 17


### its deployment of renewable energy by 2029 from 18


### its 2012 levels, and Ohio and Pennsylvania will 19


### have to increase theirs by nearly eight

- fold. 20


### These targets will be very difficult to meet and 21


### illustrate the uneven impacts of the proposed 22

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### rule. Another troubling area is the 1

- 1/2 1


### percent annual reduction target for energy 2


### consumption by state . EPA believes that a 1

- 1/2 3


### percent savings from efficiency policies is 4


### achievable and seems to be discounting the 5


### fundamental connection between economic growth 6



### a nd energy consumption. 7


### As the state's economy improves, so too 8


### does energy consumption, which can lead to 9



### increased CO 2 

### emissions. Will the state be 10


### penalized if it has worked hard to build a 11


### growing economy? 12


### Our manufacturers need a reliable supply 13



### of electricity at stable prices in order to be 14


### competitive. Half our region, actually more than 15


### half of our region is in the PJM Interconnection 16


### RTO, which already has the largest amount of 17



### planned coal

- fired power plants retirements. 18


### These regulations will accelerate this trend 19


### faster than the grid can adapt in the current 20


### electricity marketplace. For these reasons, we 21



### urge EPA to take four steps. 22

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### Number one, fully utilize all of our 1


### energy resources. Keep the administration's 2



### pledge of an all

- of

- the

- abo ve strategy that truly 3



### seeks to maximize the benefits of coal. Commit 4



### to strong results

- oriented funding levels for the 5


### national energy technology laboratory, which is 6


### leading the way with cutting edge R&D on clean 7


### coal technologies. 8



### Number two, fully co mmit to CCS 9


### technologies and workforce retraining. 10


### Meaningful federal investment in CCS as well as 11



### beneficial reuse of carbon must be connected to 12


### requirements on coal

- fired generation. We're 13


### going to need a skilled workforce to keep up with 14


### these signif icant changes and mitigate the likely 15


### job displacement. The EPA must engage all other 16


### agencies and stakeholders to construct a 17


### realistic pipeline of technology and people to 18


### achieve the environmental goals and build a 19


### growing economy. 20



### Number three, not p enalize states for 21



### their success. This is a national issue. Our 22

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### energy production and consumption does not start 1


### and stop at state borders. Compliance must not 2


### penalize one state at the gain of another. 3


### And fourth and finally, carefully 4



### consider whethe r the benefits are worth the cost. 5



### The current course of CO 2 

### emission reductions will 6


### likely produce similar positive results as would 7


### the proposed regulations over a comparable time 8


### period, as technology improves and replacement 9


### capacity comes online. A lready China has made 10


### significant strides in its coal

- fired fleet by 11


### importing American clean coal technologies. 12


### Thank you for the opportunity to be here 13



### today. 14



### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 15


### When you're ready, Mr. Bogi. 16



### MR. BOGI: Sure. Sorry. My name w asn't 17



### on there. 18


### My name is Ja min, J

- a

- m

- i

- n, Bogi, B

- o

- g

19


### i. I work for the Group Against Smog and 20



### Pollution, also known as GASP, and we submit 21

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### these comments in support of the Clean Power 1



### Plan. 2


### While the details of the plan are rather 3


### complicated, the b ig picture is simple to 4


### comprehend. Global warming threatens our nation, 5


### and carbon dioxide causes much of the warming. 6


### The EPA has the authority and the mandate to 7


### regulate carbon dioxide, and this proposal does 8


### just that. 9


### Many comments have praised th e reduction 10


### of carbon dioxide and the mitigation of global 11


### warming, and we applaud the EPA for taking this 12


### strong step by addressing emissions from our 13


### nation's largest si ngle source of carbon dioxide. 14



### This action will be a model to countries around 15



### the w orld, and we should take pride in leading 16


### this fight; but as a nonprofit based in 17


### southwestern Pennsylvania that's also fought for 18


### 45 years to reduce emissions that have short

- term 19


### or even immediately toxic effects, such are 20


### particulate matter, sulfur diox ide, nitrogen 21


### oxides, air toxics, and other pollutants, we are 22

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### especially excited to see the co

- benefits of 1


### reducing these pollutants that this rule will 2


### provide. 3


### Pittsburgh is known for i ts smoky past. 4



### Many outsiders still have that image of the 5


### city. While Pittsburgh no longer turns on 6



### street lights at noon to see through the smoke, 7



### we do suffer from high levels of ozone and fine 8


### particulate matter. Perhaps "The Blue Ozone 9



### Haze City" or "The City With High Levels of 10


### Microscopic Particulates" just a ren't catchy 11



### enough to have become our new nickname. 12



### Our air quality slowly improves year 13



### after year, but so does our knowledge of the 14



### danger of these pollutants. GASP works to 15



### reduce emissions from our own backyard sources, 16



### such as three nearby coke w orks
, including the 17



### largest coke works in the nation, several steel 18



### mills, heavy diesel traffic, and many more. 19



### But we also need relief from upwind sources. 20



### We are victims of emissions from power 21



### plants in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and beyond. 22

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### This rule addresses the entire electricity

1


### generating sector, nationwide, and , thus, 2



### r educes the ability for some to say w hy should 3



### we clean up when our neighbors aren't? 4



### And what do we get by enacting thi s 5



### plan ? By 2030, there will be over 50 ,000 less 6



### tons per year of fine particulates, and over 7



### 40 0,000 tons per year less sulfur dioxide and 8


### nitrogen oxides. These reductions will prevent 9



### thousands of premature deaths, half a million 10



### missed school and workdays, and up to 1 50 ,000 11



### asthma attacks in ch i ldren every year. 12


### The plan is to be commended for its 13


### flexibility. States can use a variety of 14


### strategies to meet state

- specific goals. 15


### States can also choose to work with neighboring 16


### states to create regional plans, if that makes 17



### sense to them. 18



### The proposal is the result of over a 19



### year of direct engagement with stakeholders, 20



### and in many ways it's just the next logical 21



### step along a path the states started long ago. 22

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### Forty

- seven states already have demand

- side 1



### energy efficiency programs. Almost four out of 2



### every five states utilize renewable energy 3


### portfolio standards or goals. Th e proposal 4



### builds on the tested, proven successes already 5



### achieved by many states. The proposal will 6



### save far more in health benefits than its 7



### estimated cost. The cost of doing nothing was 8



### recently calculated by the White House Council 9



### of Economic Advisers to be 1 9 t i mes more per 10



### year , so 19 times more. We cann ot afford to 11



### wait any longer. 12



### What other changes might we see by 2030 13



### beyond much cleaner air and a more stable 14



### climate? We could see m ore creative 15



### hydropower projects

, like the several that 16



### already exist on legacy dams and reservoirs in 17



### the region a nd the many more being considered ; 18



### s olar panels on the top of every municipal 19



### water tower, county courthouse, public works 20



### garage ; m ore energy efficient light bulbs being 21



### sold for $1 in thrift stores, like a local 22

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### electric utility did here recently; companies 1


### reducing power at night to r educe spikes i n 2



### demand and, thus, save their company lots of 3



### money ; g eothermal power projects like in the 4



### South Side Library a few miles from here, in a 5



### 1 05

- year

- old building that added the technology 6


### during renovation ; ve rtical axis wind power 7



### turbines like at Phipps Conservatory , or on 8



### f arms, or in small towns, delivering power to 9



### themselves and thei r neighbors. W e see 10


### flexibility, effi ciency, resiliency, and jobs. 11


### Home, neighbors, towns, and cities that are 12



### smarter and stronger. 13


### Thanks to the Green Building Alliance's 14


### leadership, Pittsburgh is home to one of the 15



### nation's few 2030 districts. 2030 districts 16



### are voluntary collaborate efforts where 17


### building owner and urban cores agree to slash 18


### energy and water use and transportation 19


### emissions. We will see states creating 20


### incentives for districts like Pittsburgh's. 21


### Thank you for the opportunity to comment. 22

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### MR. HARVEY: Thank you. 1


### I'm going to first check and see if we 2


### have clarifying questions. 3


### A question for Mr. Wolking. So you're 4


### organization encompasses chambers of commerce 5



### from each of the states that were the Great 6



### Lakes; is that correct? 7



### MR. WOLKING: Yeah. New York, 8


### Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, 9



### Wisconsin, Minnesota. 10



### MR. HARVEY: And how many members do you 11



### have? 12



### MR. WOLKING: And some of the other 13


### states that are effectively in the trading 14


### region. 15



### MR. HARVEY: The se are the chambers of 16


### commerce that are geographically adjacent to the 17



### -- or is it broader

-- or is it in that whole 18



### state? 19



### MR. WOLKING: There are other states in 20


### the trading region

-- 21



### MR. HARVEY: I see. 22

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### MR. WOLKING:

-- as it was defined by 1



### Brookin gs Institution in the early 2000s, Iowa, 2


### Missouri, Kentucky, West Virginia. 3


### MR. HARVEY: Yeah. I was really asking 4


### about your membership per se. 5


### MR. WOLKING: Yeah. Our membership is 6


### chambers essentially in the states that are 7


### bordering the great lakes

. 8


### MR. HARVEY: Right. 9


### MR. WOLKING: Those eight. 10



### MR. HARVEY: But the whole state, not 11


### just the counties near the lake? 12



### MR. WOLKING: No. The whole state. 13



### MR. HARVEY: Yeah, yeah. Okay, great. 14


### MS. MASTRO: Including Pennsylvania? 15



### MR. WOLKING: Yea h. Mm

- hmm. 16



### MR. HARVEY: Okay. 17


### MR. WOLKING: Essentially if you think 18


### west of the Alleghenies and then around the cup 19


### of the lakes up through Minnesota. 20



### MR. HARVEY: Yeah. That's clear. 21


### All right. I have no further questions. 22

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### Hearing none, thank you for your time. 1



### MR. WOLKING: Thank you. 2



### MR. HARVEY: Do we have other speakers? 3


### Okay. So we are going to go on recess. 4


### So thank you for being here, and we will resume 5


### when we have additional speakers that w ant to 6



### speak. 7



### (Off the record from 1:48 p.m . to 2:16 8



### p.m.) 9


### MR. HARVEY: This is Reid Harvey. We are 10


### now adjourning this session. Thank you for your 11



### attendance. 12


### (Whereupon, the session concluded at 2:17 13



### p.m.) 14

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