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z;m 1 tt P 1: t1.1 JUN - 4. 2012 

u.s. DEPARTMENT OF T-DOCKET 

OFFICE OF HEARINGS 

WASHINGTON, D.C. 

IN THE MATTER OF: 

DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 

RESPONDENT 

LITIGATION CONFERENCE 

BEFORE THE HONORABLE 

JUDGE J. E. SULLIVAN 

DOCKET NO. FAA DOCKET NO. CP10EA0004 

FDMS NO. FAA-2010-0620 

MAY 15, 2012 

10:00 A.M. 

RECEIVED 

j\j N ~.· 2012 

:HIARJNG DOCKET 

800.262.8777 www.Cou Reporters.com 877.837.8313 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 2 

1 APPEARANCES: 

2 ON BEHALF OF THE FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION: 

3 ZACHARY M. BERMAN, ATTORNEY 

4 OFFICE OF THE REGIONAL COUNSEL, AEA-7 

5 EASTERN REGION 

6 FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION 

7 1 AVIATION PLAZA, ROOM 561 

8 JAMAICA, NY 11434 

9 P: 718 553 3258 

10 

11 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 

18 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 

ON BEHALF OF DIAMOND 

GREGORY S. WINTON 

AVIATION LAW EXPERTS, 

ONE RESEARCH COURT 

SUITE 450 

ROCKVILLE, MD 20850 

P: 301 294 8550 

AIR CHARTER: 

LLC 

NG 
1 

2 

3 

IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 3 

LITIGATION CONFERENCE 

MAY 15, 2012 

JUDGE SULLIVAN: We are on the record in 

4 the matter of Diamond Air Charter, Inc. This is Docket 

5 No. FAA-2010-0620. Today is Tuesday, May 15, 2012, and 

6 the parties have convened by telephone for a Fourth 

7 Litigation Scheduling Conference. The Federal Aviation 

8 Administration, which I will herein after abbreviate it 

9 as "FAA," is represented by its attorney, Zachary 

10 Berman. The Respondent, Diamond Air Charter, Inc. is 

11 represented by its attorney, Gregory Winton. Also 

12 present at the Office of Hearings as an Observer only, 

13 is Melissa Ngo, who is a law student intern with the 

14 Officer for the summer. Good morning, counsel. 

15 MR. BERMAN: Good morning. 

16 MR. WINTON: Good morning. 

17 JUDGE SULLIVAN: As you may recall, the 

18 last conference we had was on Thursday, January 12, 

19 2012. At that time, the parties agreed to continue the 

20 matter, again, for the purpose of determining what the 

21 ultimate resolution would be for an Arbitration that 

22 was rescheduled to January 17, 2012. What I am going 

23 to do, since I didn't get any kind of Settlement Papers 

24 from any one; since January 12, 2012, is check in first 

25 with Mr. Berman to see what the statu$ of the case is, 

NG 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 4 

1 Mr. Berman? 

2 MR. BERMAN: Well, there is no ... there 

3 has been no Settlement reached, and it doesn't look 

4 like we are going to reach a settlement. And, at the 

5 last conference, Mr. Winton said that there was this 

6 Arbitration, and there is going to be a decision at a 

7 certain time, and I have been informed by Mr. Winton 

8 that there was a decision, but it looks like it is 

9 going to be appealed, and it is going to take more 

10 time. So, I think Mr. Winton is in agreement with me 

11 that at this point, we might as well just go ahead and 

12 ... with the Procedurals set up a Procedural 

13 schedule for this case. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And, thank you ... Mr. 

15 Winton, anything you would like to add or correct to 

16 that Summary? 

17 MR. WINTON: No, we basically came to 

18 that Agreement. I don't want to have you put it off 

19 again in hopes that it is going to resolve itself. 

20 Realistically, since the Arbitration decision is being 

21 challenged, I think within the next 30 to 60 days, the 

22 Corporation will be dissolved and then Mr. Berman and 

23 the FAA will be satisfied that the case can be 

24 withdrawn, dismissed, or otherwise resolved. 

25 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Winton, to Whom is 

COURt:· 

'Vhltqr.aphy 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#l6828-l 5 

1 the Arbitration being appealed at this point? 

2 MR. WINTON: To the Arbitrator, again, 

3 Judge, this is not I am not handling any part of 

4 that, so I get it bits and pieces, third hand, but I 

5 did speak with the attorney yesterday who handled the 

6 Arbitration. He told me there was a decision. His 

7 client is appealing it, and/or challenging it, and that 

8 he believes ... and we are going to check on that as 

9 soon as we finish this Conference Call, that we can 

10 still ... even though it is being challenged, go ahead 

11 and dissolve the Diamond Air Charter Corporation in New 

12 York that is subject of the present Civil Penalty 

13 Action. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, andi understand 

15 that you are not the Attorney on the Arbitration 

16 itself, and that you are simply the speaking conduit 

17 for the client in this particular case. My question to 

18 you is more about to whom do the parties appeal, if to 

19 anyone, once the Arbitration is completely resolved? 

20 MR. WINTON: Do you know what ... Judge, 

21 and forgive me, I don't practice that type of law. I 

22 believe it is to the Arbitrator, himself, but I do not 

2 3 know for sure. 

24 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Well, I know the 

25 practices vary from state to state, and from 

COiURT: EPORTING Vld~ilphy·· Utlgallon 'ftlcturt;'/llogU ·· w 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 6 

1 jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but typically, it has 

2 been my experience that once an Arbitrator issues a 

3 final decision, after any kinds of Motions for 

4 Reconsideration, there can either be a Contract between 

5 the Parties that Arbitration is the Final Decision 

6 maker, or the parties could appeal from the Arbitration 

7 decision to a forum, such as The Court of General 

8 Jurisdiction in that particular state, for example. 

9 And it sounds to me like you don't know what the 

10 potential Appellate Process might be in that particular 

11 case. 

12 MR. WINTON: Correct, and it may be so 

13 new the decision now it is just a Motion for 

14 Reconsideration if that is the proper vehicle. But, 

15 again, I do not have personal knowledge. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. All right. Thank 

17 you. Mr. Berman, turning back to you, in terms of a 

18 Litigation Schedule, let me ask you what your 

19 preference is. I previously heard from both parties 

20 about this particular case at the last conference on 

21 January 12, 2012, Mr. Winton had reiterated the fact 

22 that the Business had no money and could not afford to 

23 pay him to serve as an Active Advocate on its behalf. 

24 Have you had a chance to talk to Mr. Winton privately 

25 about a Discovery Schedule or any of those other 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCRU6828-1 7 

1 matters that typically would come at this stage of the 

2 Litigation? 

3 MR. BERMAN: Oh, shortly before this 

4 conference, Mr. Winton called me at about ... you know, 

5 possibly setting up a Procedural Schedule, and I don't 

6 know if he received it yet or had a chance to review 

7 it, but I e-mailed him a Draft Proposed Schedule, and I 

8 don't know if he has had a chance to review it. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Winton, I will turn 

10 to you. Have you had a chance to even see that e-mail, 

11 or to review it on behalf of your client? 

12 MR. WINTON: Yes, I have, and I have a 

13 printed copy sitting in front of me, Judge. I am fine 

14 with all of the dates that are proposed, again 

15 anticipating and expecting that this case will go no 

16 further than the end of this week ... hopefully, but if 

17 you would like, we can get some dates on the calendar, 

18 so at least we have the next Procedural Schedule on the 

19 record, and then if it gets resolved, so be it. 

20 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Did anyone think to fax 

21 me a copy of the material that you have been exchanging 

22 between yourselves? 

23 MR. BERMAN: Well, I would have to write 

24 a ... it was just a very, very rough draft, so I would 

25 have to type it fresh before I could do that. 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 8 

1 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well it makes it 

2 somewhat difficult for me to review or consider what 

3 the two of you have talked about if I don't have it in 

4 front of me. 

5 MR. BERMAN: Right. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Why don't we do 

7 this then. I am going to talk to you a little bit 

8 about what I would like to have you consider as part of 

9 your Litigation Schedules, and then I am going to reset 

10 this so that we can set it up in such a way that I 

11 actually have material in front of me so that I can 

12 discuss this intelligently with both of you. So, if 

13 you give me a moment, what is the material 

14 Okay, Ideally, this is what I would like 

15 to have you discuss and have ready for me at the next 

16 conference. A deadline for initial Discovery 

17 Disclosures; a deadline to Exchange or Serve all 

18 additional Discovery Requests after the Initial 

19 Discovery Disclosures; Deadline to Exchange or Serve 

20 your Responses to the Additional Discovery Requests. A 

21 deadline to Exchange or Serve any Supplemental 

22 Discovery Requests after you have Served and Exchanged 

23 the Initial and Subsequent Discovery. 

24 I would like to have you discuss a 

25 Deadline to file any Dispositive 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 9 

1 Motions, and that would include then: a deadline for 

2 filing answers, a deadline for filing a reply if the 

3 Moving Party wants to have one, and then a potential 

4 time for an oral argument on any dispositive motion. 

5 This could include easily a motion for a default. We 

6 have talked about that before. It also could 

7 potentially include a motion for Summary Judgment on 

8 all or part of the proceedings. 

9 In addition, after that time frame, I am 

10 looking at a deadline for filing any written 

11 stipulations that you might come up with prior to a 

12 Hearing, assuming this case goes to Hearing. A deadline 

13 for the exchange of evidence, which would include the 

14 names and contact numbers of the Witnesses, the 

15 Curriculum Vitae or Resume of any Expert Witnesses and 

16 so forth; a deadline for filing Pre-Hearing Briefs, and 

17 then a general time frame for Hearing dates themselves 

18 where you would ideally like to have the Hearing, 

19 and how long you think that Hearing might last 

20 assuming, no Dispositive Motions are granted. And that 

21 is a big assumption, but just assuming that you would 

22 have to go to Hearing on everything. If you can do 

23 that and serve me by fax or by U.S. Mail, or both 

24 preferably, then the next time we meet, I can make sure 

25 that I have any and all questions that I need ready to 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 10 

1 ask the two of you. We can then calendar on our 

2 calendars both the Summary Judgement or Default Motion, 

3 Oral Argument and the Hearing Dates at the same time 

4 that we schedule all of these other dates. And then 

5 you can potentially give me an update on the potential 

6 of the Company filing or obtaining a Certificate of 

7 Dissolution from the State of New York, which I think 

8 is the primary goal at this point of both of the 

9 Respondent and the FAA. 

10 Mr. Berman, turning to you, do you have any 

11 questions about the proposed deadlines that I am 

12 talking about for the Litigation Schedule? 

13 MR. BERMAN: No. 

14 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Winton? 

15 MR. WINTON: No questions, Judge. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, then let's look at 

17 our calendar, if we can just talk about reconvening one 

18 more time for a Litigation Scheduling within the next 

19 couple of weeks. Mr. Berman, looking at your calendar 

20 first, do you have any proposed date that you think 

21 would work in terms of not only chatting once more with 

22 Mr. Winton about some of these dates that you may or 

23 may not have considered already, and then number two 

24 getting the material put together in a form that 

25 you are comfortable filing with the Court. And number 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR*16828-1 11 

1 three, meeting shortly thereafter with the Court to 

2 address any questions that it might have. 

3 MR. BERMAN: How about May 29th? Oh, no 

4 ... yes, May 29th. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, I am probably not 

6 going to be here May 29th, but if the week of May 29th 

7 would work, that certainly would be helpful. Mr. 

8 Winton, how about the week of May 29th? 

9 MR. WINTON: The 30th or 31st is best for 

10 me. 

11 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Berman, would 

12 the 30th or the 31st work? 

13 MR. BERMAN: Yes, there is a chance I 

14 might have to be out of town. I am not sure of my 

15 schedule yet, for those two days. 

16 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, well why don't we 

17 go to the following week. Do you have time open on the 

18 following week, which would be the week of June 3, · 

19 2012. 

20 MR. BERMAN: I would be available on June 

21 6. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: So, is June 6 the only 

23 day during the week of June 3, 2012 that you have any 

24 time available? 

25 MR. BERMAN: June 6 or ... June 6 or June 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 12 

1 7, but June 7, I am not available between 11 a.m. and 

2 noon. 

3 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, and are you on the 

4 East Coast, sir? 

5 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 

6 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Winton, how 

7 about June 6 or June 7 in the morning? 

8 MR. WINTON: June 7 would work at 10:00 

9 a.m. 

10 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Do you have time that is 

11 a little more open than that, sir? I would like to ... 

12 MR. WINTON: I have an 11:00 a.m. 

13 conference informal conference with the FAA, other 

14 than that, I am wide open. 

15 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, Mr. Berman, 

16 turning to you, would 9:30 a.m. on June 7, 2012 work 

17 for you? 

18 MR. BERMAN: Yes. 

19 JUDGE SULLIVAN: And Mr. Winton, it 

20 sounds like 9:30 a.m. would work okay? 

21 MR. WINTON: On June 7th, yes. 

22 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay. Let's plan on 

23 reconvening then for a Fifth Litigation Scheduling 

24 Conference on Thursday, June 7, 2012 at 9:30 a.m. 

25 Eastern Time; and Counsel, if you could have that 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR~16828-1 13 

1 material to me no later than June 1, 2012, that would 

2 be quite helpful. 

3 MR. BERMAN: Okay. 

4 MR. WINTON: Okay. 

5 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, now with that, Mr. 

6 Berman, turning to you, is there anything else that we 

7 need to address for you and your client today? 

8 MR. BERMAN: No. 

9 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Mr. Winton, anything 

10 that we need to address for you or your client? 

11 MR. WINTON: Nothing, Judge, thank you. 

12 JUDGE SULLIVAN: Okay, thank you both 

13 very much. It appears our business is complete. We 

14 can go off the record, and I wish you all a good day. 

15 MR. BERMAN: Thank you. 

16 MR. WINTON: You too. 

17 (WHEREUPON, the proceedings were concluded at 10:15 

18 a.m.) 

19 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 
1 

2 

IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 14 

CAPTION 

3 The Hearing in the matter, on the date, and at the time 

4 and place set out on the title page hereof. 

5 

6 It was requested that the Hearing be taken by the 

7 reporter and that same be reduced to typewritten form. 

8 

9 

10 

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12 

13 

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15 

16 

17 

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25 

NG 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 15 

CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 

1 

2 

COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA AT LARGE: 

3 I hereby certify that I am a Notary Public for 

4 the State of Virginia at Large, and hereby certify 

5 that the foregoing constitutes a true and accurate 

6 transcript to the best of their ability. 

7 

8 Further, this is to certify that I am not an 

9 

employee of nor related to any of the parties, and I 

10 

have no financial interest in the outcome of this 

11 

matter. 

12 

13 

14 

15 

16 

17 JACOB MACE 

COURT REPORTER / NOTARY 

18 

NOTARY REGISTRATION NUMBER: 7508361 

19 My Commission Expires: September 30, 2015 

20 

21 

22 

23 

24 

25 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 16 

1 

1 13:1 

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IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 17 

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......... ______________________ _ 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 18 

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IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 19 

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Procedural 4:12 

7:5 7:18 

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IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 20 

Procedurals 4:12 

proceedings 9:8 

13:17 

Process 6:10 

proper 6:14 

proposed 7:7 7:14 

10:11 10:20 

purpose 3:20 

Q 

question 5:17 

questions 9 : 2 5 

10:11 10:15 11:2 

quite 13:2 

R 

reach 4:4 

reached 4:3 

ready 8 : 15 9 : 2 5 

Realistically 

4:20 

recall 3:17 

received 7:6 

Reconsideration 

6:4 6:14 

reconvening 10:17 

12:23 

record 3:3 7:19 

13:14 

reiterated 6:21 

reply 9:2 

represented 3:9 

3:11 

Requests 8:18 

8:20 8:22 

rescheduled 3:22 

reset 8:9 

resolution 3:21 

resolve 4:19 

resolved 4:24 

5:19 7:19 

Respondent 3:10 

10:9 

Responses 8:20 

Resume 9:15 

review 7:6 7:8 

7:11 8:2 

rough 7:24 

s 

satisfied 4:23 

schedule 4:13 

6:18 6:25 7:5 

7:7 7:18 10:4 

10:12 11:15 

Schedules 8:9 

Scheduling 3:7 

10:18 12:23 

serve 6:23 8:17 

8:19 8:21 9:23 

Served 8:22 

setting 7:5 

settlement 3:23 

4:3 4:4 

shortly 7:3 11:1 

simply 5:16 

sir 12:4 12:11 

sitting 7:13 

PORTING 

somewhat 8:2 

sounds 6:9 12:20 

speak 5:5 

speaking 5:16 

stage 7:1 

state 5:25 5:25 

6:8 10:7 

status 3:25 

stipulations 9:11 

student 3:13 

subject 5:12 

Subsequent 8:23 

SULLIVAN 3:3 3:17 

4:14 4:25 5:14 

5:24 6:16 7:9 

7:20 8:1 8:6 

10:14 10:16 11:5 

11:11 11:16 

11:22 12:3 

12:6 12:10 12:15 

12:19 12:22 13:5 

13:9 13:12 

Summary 4:16 

9:7 10:2 

summer 3:14 

Supplemental 8:21 

sure 5 : 2 3 9 : 2 4 

11:14 

T 

talk 6 : 2 4 8 : 7 

10:17 

talked 8:3 9:6 

talking 10:12 

telephone 3:6 
IN THE MATTER OF DIAMOND AIR CHARTER 5/15/2012 CCR#16828-1 21 

terms 6:17 10:21 

thank 4:14 6:16 

13:11 13:12 

13:15 

themselves 9 : 1 7 

thereafter 11:1 

third 5:4 

Thursday 3:18 

12:24 

today 3:5 13:7 

town 11:14 

Tuesday 3:5 

turn 7:9 

turning 6:17 

10:10 12:16 13:6 

type 5:21 7:25 

typically 6:1 7:1 

u 

u.s 9:23 

ultimate 3:21 

understand 5:14 

update 10:5 

v 

vary 5: 2'5 

vehicle 6:14 

Vitae 9:15 

w 

week 7:16 11:6 

11:8 11:17 11:18 

11:18 11:23 

weeks 10:19 

WHEREUPON 13:17 

whom 4:25 5:18 

wide 12:14 

Winton 3:11 

3:16 4:5 4:7 

4:10 4:15 4:17 

4:25 5:2 5:20 

6:12 6:21 6:24 

7:4 7:9 7:12 

10:14 10:15 

10:22 11:8 

11:9 12:6 12:8 

12:12 12:19 

12:21 13:4 

13:9 13:11 13:16 

wish 13:14 

withdrawn 4:24 

Witnesses 9:14 

9:15 

work 10:21 11:7 

11:12 12:8 12:16 

12:20 

write 7:23 

written 9:10 

y 

yesterday 5:5 

yet 7:6 11:15 

York 5:12 10:7 

yourselves 7:22 

z 

Zachary 3:9