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50–316 2009

S. HRG. 110–914 

NOMINATIONS OF: DAVID G. NASON, 

MARIO MANCUSO, ROBERT M. COUCH, 

MICHAEL W. TANKERSLEY, NGUYEN VAN HANH, 

AND JANIS HERSCHKOWITZ 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

COMMITTEE ON 

BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

ON 

NOMINATIONS OF: 

DAVID G. NASON, OF VIRGINIA, TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL

INSTITUTIONS OF THE DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY

AND TO BE A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR THE NATIONAL

CONSUMER COOPERATIVE BANK

MARIO MANCUSO, OF NEW YORK, TO BE UNDER SECRETARY FOR EXPORT

ADMINISTRATION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE

ROBERT M. COUCH, OF ALABAMA, TO BE GENERAL COUNSEL FOR THE

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT

MICHAEL W. TANKERSLEY, OF TEXAS, TO BE INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR THE

EXPORT-IMPORT BANK OF THE UNITED STATES

NGUYEN VAN HANH, OF CALIFORNIA, TO BE A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF

DIRECTORS FOR THE NATIONAL CONSUMER COOPERATIVE BANK

JANIS HERSCHKOWITZ, OF PENNSYLVANIA, TO BE A MEMBER OF THE BOARD

OF DIRECTORS FOR THE NATIONAL CONSUMER COOPERATIVE BANK

THURSDAY, MAY 10, 2007 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs 

( 

Available at: http://www.access.gpo.gov/congress/senate/senate05sh.html 


hsrobinson on DSK69SOYB1PROD with HEARING
(II) 

COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS 

CHRISTOPHER J. DODD, Connecticut, Chairman 

TIM JOHNSON, South Dakota 

JACK REED, Rhode Island 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

EVAN BAYH, Indiana 

THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware 

ROBERT MENENDEZ, New Jersey 

DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii 

SHERROD BROWN, Ohio 

ROBERT P. CASEY, Pennsylvania 

JON TESTER, Montana 

RICHARD C. SHELBY, Alabama 

ROBERT F. BENNETT, Utah 

WAYNE ALLARD, Colorado 

MICHAEL B. ENZI, Wyoming 

CHUCK HAGEL, Nebraska 

JIM BUNNING, Kentucky 

MIKE CRAPO, Idaho 

JOHN E. SUNUNU, New Hampshire 

ELIZABETH DOLE, North Carolina 

MEL MARTINEZ, Florida 

SHAWN MAHER, Staff Director 

WILLIAM D. DUHNKE, Republican Staff Director and Counsel 

JONATHAN MILLER, Professional Staff Member 

JOSEPH L. HEPP, Professional Staff Member 

DIDEM NISANCI, Professional Staff Member 

MARK A. CALABRIA, Republican Senior Professional Staff Member 

ANDREW OLMEM, Republican Counsel 

JIM JOHNSON, Republican Counsel 

JOSEPH R. KOLINSKI, Chief Clerk and Computer Systems Administrator 

GEORGE WHITTLE, Editor 


hsrobinson on DSK69SOYB1PROD with HEARING
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C O N T E N T S 

THURSDAY, MAY 10, 2007 

Page 

Opening statements, comments, or prepared statements of: 

Senator Reed ..................................................................................................... 1 

Senator Casey ................................................................................................... 11 

WITNESS 

Tim Holden, U.S. Representative from the State of Pennsylvania ..................... 15 

NOMINEES 

David G. Nason, of Virginia, to be Assistant Secretary for Financial Institutions of the Department of Treasury and to be a Member of the Board 

of Directors for the National Consumer Cooperative Bank .............................. 4 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 26 

Mario Mancuso, of New York, to be Under Secretary for Export Administration of the Department of Commerce ................................................................. 5 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 28 

Response to written questions of: 

Senator Dodd ............................................................................................. 51 

Robert M. Couch, of Alabama, to be General Counsel for the Department 

of Housing and Urban Development .................................................................. 7 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 32 

Michael W. Tankersley, of Texas, to be Inspector General for the ExportImport Bank of the United States ...................................................................... 8 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 35 

Nguyen Van Hanh, of California, to be a Member of the Board of Directors 

for the National Consumer Cooperative Bank ................................................... 9 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 37 

Janis Herschkowitz, of Pennsylvania, to be a Member of the Board of Directors for the National Consumer Cooperative Bank ........................................... 12 

Prepared statement .......................................................................................... 45 


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hsrobinson on DSK69SOYB1PROD with HEARING
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NOMINATIONS OF: 

DAVID G. NASON, OF VIRGINIA, 

TO BE ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL 

INSTITUTIONS, 

DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY 

AND TO BE A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS 

THE NATIONAL CONSUMER COOPERATIVE BANK; 

MARIO MANCUSO, OF NEW YORK, 

TO BE UNDER SECRETARY FOR EXPORT 

ADMINISTRATION, 

DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE; 

ROBERT M. COUCH, OF ALABAMA, 

TO BE GENERAL COUNSEL, 

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN 

DEVELOPMENT; 

MICHAEL W. TANKERSLEY, OF TEXAS, 

TO BE INSPECTOR GENERAL, 

EXPORT-IMPORT BANK OF THE UNITED STATES; 

NGUYEN VAN HANH, OF CALIFORNIA, 

TO BE A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, 

THE NATIONAL CONSUMER COOPERATIVE BANK; 

JANIS HERSCHKOWITZ, OF PENNSYLVANIA, 

TO BE A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, 

THE NATIONAL CONSUMER COOPERATIVE BANK 

THURSDAY, MAY 10, 2007 

U.S. SENATE, 

COMMITTEE ON BANKING, HOUSING, AND URBAN AFFAIRS, 

Washington, DC. 

The Committee met at 3:05 p.m., in room SD–538, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Senator Jack Reed, presiding. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR REED 

Senator REED. This hearing will come to order. Thank you, ladies 

and gentlemen. 

Let me begin by saying that Senator Dodd very much wanted to 

not only be here but to obviously chair the hearing. He is unable 


hsrobinson on DSK69SOYB1PROD with HEARING
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to attend. He has asked me to conduct the hearing. This is an important constitutional process that we are engaged in. I appreciate 

the fact that the nominees would all come forward, and not only 

appear but respond to our questions, both questions here today and 

questions that may be submitted in writing. 

First let me introduce Mr. David George Nason of Rhode Island. 

Mr. Nason already has something to commend him to this Committee. He has been nominated to serve as Assistant Secretary of 

the Treasury for Financial Institutions and to serve as a Member 

of the Board of Directors of the National Consumer Cooperative 

Bank, as the designated Federal official in the Bank’s charter. Mr. 

Nason currently serves as Acting Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Financial Institutions, and until recently served as Deputy 

Assistant Secretary for Financial Institutions. Should he be confirmed, Mr. Nason would be responsible for managing a number of 

Treasury officials, including the agency’s Office of Financial Institutions Policy and Government-Sponsored Enterprise Policy Office. 

Prior to coming to the Treasury, Mr. Nason worked at the Securities and Exchange Commission where he served as counsel. Mr. 

Nason also worked as an attorney at Covington & Burling in 

Washington, D.C. Mr. Nason received a Bachelor of Science in finance from the American University and a J.D. summa cum laude 

from the Washington College of law at the American University. 

I am particularly pleased to welcome Mr. Nason. I have had a 

chance to talk to him, and he not only ably represents the administration, but he able represents Rhode Island, and he does not forget 

his family and friends back there. 

Next we have Mr. Mario Mancuso of New York. Mr. Mancuso has 

been nominated to serve as Under Secretary of Commerce for Export Administration. If confirmed, Mr. Mancuso would serve as 

head of the Commerce Department’s Bureau of Industry and Security, and his primary duties would focus on enforcing our Nation’s 

export controls of dual-use products, items with both civilian and 

military applications, including items that contribute to the proliferation of nuclear, biological, and chemical weaponry. Additionally, he would be tasked with coordinating Defense Production Act 

policies for delivering emergency supplies to the Government during a national emergency. 

Since August 2005, Mr. Mancuso has served as Deputy Assistant 

Secretary of Defense for Special Operations in Combating Terrorism. From January 2005 to July 2005, Mr. Mancuso served as 

Special Counsel to the General Counsel of the Department of Defense where he worked on numerous matters involving international law, national security policy, and international affairs. 

The next nominee is Mr. Robert Couch of Alabama, and Senator 

Shelby particularly wanted to be here, Mr. Couch, and introduce 

you in person, and I will do my best in that regard. 

Mr. Couch has been nominated to serve as General Counsel at 

HUD. The General Counsel provides legal opinions in regard to all 

departmental activities. The Office of General Counsel is also responsible for enforcing fair housing laws, which is a critical function of the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Mr. 

Couch has an extensive legal and professional background. After 

graduating from law school at Washington and Lee University, Mr. 


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Couch served as a law clerk on the United States Fifth Circuit; 

then he served as a law clerk to United States Supreme Court Justice Lewis Powell. 

In addition to practicing law at a number of firms, Mr. Couch 

was President of Collateral Mortgage, Limited, a firm in Birmingham, Alabama, and was President and CEO of New South 

Federal Savings Bank, also in Birmingham, Alabama. Currently, 

Mr. Couch is President of the Government National Mortgage Association. 

Mr. Michael W. Tankersley, of Texas, has been nominated to 

serve as Inspector General of the Export-Import Bank of the 

United States. Mr. Tankersley is a partner with the firm Bracewell 

& Giuliani in Texas, where he counsels corporate boards and committees regarding fiduciary duty, conflicts of interest, disclosure, 

and securities law compliance. Mr. Tankersley has served as Chairman of the Business Law Section of the State Bar of Texas, and 

he is a former adjunct professor at the University of Texas Law 

School. Additionally, Mr. Tankersley received a bachelor’s degree 

and master’s of accounting from Rice University and his law degree 

from the University of Texas, where he served as editor of the Law 

Review and chancellor. 

The Inspector General position is a newly created position at the 

Eximbank, and I would like to recognize the important leadership 

of Senator Allard in creating this position. Without his efforts, this 

nomination would not be possible today. I look forward to hearing 

from Mr. Tankersley regarding his thoughts on how this new office 

will operate. 

The next nominee is Ms. Janis Herschkowitz, and I think Congressman Holden is due to introduce you. As soon as he arrives, 

I will let him do that, but suffice to mention that Ms. Herschkowitz 

has been nominated to be a Member of the Board of Directors of 

the National Consumer Cooperative Bank. 

And, finally, Dr. Nguyen Van Hanh, of California, has been nominated to be a Member of the Board of Directors of the National 

Consumer Cooperative Bank. Dr. Van Hanh has served as Director 

of the Office of Refugee Resettlement since September 2001. In this 

capacity, he is a national leader in domestic refugee resettlement. 

Dr. Van Hanh was a part-time faculty member of California State 

University in Sacramento and in 1990 served as a representative 

of California Governor Deukmejian on community relations and 

managed various programs as senior economist on water resources 

for the State of California. Dr. Van Hanh holds a Ph.D. in economics from the University of California at Davis, and earlier he received a Bachelor of Science degree with high honors from the University of Florida and a Master’s of Science degree in agricultural 

science from the same university. Welcome, Doctor. Thank you very 

much. 

At this juncture I would now ask the nominees to stand so that 

I might administer the oath, which is required in these proceedings. Would you please raise your right hand? Do you swear 

or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the 

whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? 

Mr. NASON. I do. 

Mr. MANCUSO. I do. 


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Mr. COUCH. I do. 

Mr. TANKERSLEY. I do. 

Ms. HERSCHKOWITZ. I do. 

Mr. VAN HANH. I do. 

Senator REED. Do you agree to appear and testify before any 

duly constituted committee of the Senate? 

Mr. NASON. I do. 

Mr. MANCUSO. I do. 

Mr. COUCH. I do. 

Mr. TANKERSLEY. I do. 

Ms. HERSCHKOWITZ. I do. 

Mr. VAN HANH. I do. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much. Please be seated. I am 

used to that. I have a 4-month-old child, and she is trying to communicate with me, I know. And Senator Dodd also is used to it, so 

feel right at home, please. 

Let me say that before we begin your statements, your entire 

written statements will be included in the record. We would like 

to confine remarks to 5 minutes because of the number of nominees 

before us today. And please also note that Members of the Committee could submit written questions to you for your consideration 

and prompt response. Chairman Dodd has a series of questions, I 

believe, for Mr. Mancuso which will be part of the record and will 

be forwarded to you for response, Mr. Mancuso, and other questions might be forthcoming from other members. 

Now I would like to proceed to your statements, so let me first 

recognize Mr. Nason. Thank you for joining us today, and if you 

have family or others that are accompanying you, please feel free 

to introduce my constituents. 

[Laughter.] 

STATEMENT OF DAVID GEORGE NASON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS-DESIGNATE, DEPARTMENT OF TREASURY, AND MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF 

DIRECTORS-DESIGNATE, NATIONAL CONSUMER COOPERATIVE BANK 

Ms. NASON. Thank you very much. Chairman Reed, Ranking 

Member Shelby, and Members of the Committee, thank you for inviting me to appear before you today. I am grateful to President 

Bush and Secretary Paulson for their trust and confidence in me. 

I am honored to be here today as the President’s nominee to be Assistant Secretary for Financial Institutions at the Treasury Department and to be a Member of the Board of Directors of the National 

Consumer Cooperative Bank, an organization established to assist 

underserved communities across the Nation. 

I would like to thank my family for their unyielding support of 

my decision to continue in public service. I would like to introduce 

my wife, Nicole, right there, my best friend, who is a dedicated 

public servant; and our daughters—Alexandra is 6, Abigail is 2— 

and is 2 in every sense of the word but asleep so I will keep my 

voice quiet. It will make this hearing go a lot faster. And my parents, George and Ann Nason, are also here today. 

Chairman Reed, you would be interested in knowing that my 

parents have been commuting from Providence to Washington, 


hsrobinson on DSK69SOYB1PROD with HEARING
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D.C., weekly to take care of our daughters for a period of years, so 

certainly above and beyond the call of duty for parents and grandparents. 

If confirmed, I look forward to working with Secretary Paulson, 

Under Secretary Steel, and the rest of the Treasury team, along 

with others in the administration and Congress, on a variety of important issues impacting our financial institutions. In my current 

role as Deputy Assistant Secretary, I have had the opportunity to 

engage on numerous important issues that affect our capital markets and financial institutions, including Treasury’s position on 

banking and insurance regulation. I also serve as an adviser to 

Secretary Paulson in his capacity as Chair of the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets. 

If confirmed, I will work constructively in my role as Assistant 

Secretary for Financial Institutions to ensure that the Department 

faithfully carries out its responsibilities related to financial institutions policy, critical infrastructure protection, and financial education. These topics are diverse, complex, and have a direct impact 

on the lives of Americans. 

The legal and regulatory structure imposed on our financial institutions must guard against systemic risk, must protect consumers, 

and must enhance their confidence. If confirmed, I will help Secretary Paulson shape and implement his agenda on capital markets competitiveness. I share the Secretary’s view that robust and 

vibrant capital markets are directly tied to future economic prosperity for all Americans. 

I believe that my prior professional experience has prepared me 

for this important responsibility. Before coming to Treasury, I 

served at the Securities and Exchange Commission as counsel to a 

Commissioner. I was there at a critical moment in the SEC’s history when the agency implemented the Sarbanes-Oxley act of 2002, 

the most comprehensive piece of securities legislation in decades. 

My experience there has contributed significantly in preparing me 

for this next challenge at the Treasury Department. 

Prior to the SEC, I spent time in the private sector as an attorney at Covington & Burling where I focused on securities offerings, 

mergers and acquisitions, and Federal tax planning. If confirmed, 

I would seek to ensure a constructive dialog with Members of Congress and their staffs, and I appreciate the time that Members of 

the Committee have taken to consider my nomination, and I would 

be happy to answer any questions. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Mr. Nason. 

Mr. Mancuso, if you have friends or family here you would like 

to introduce, please do so and the floor is yours. 

STATEMENT OF MARIO MANCUSO, UNDER SECRETARYDESIGNATE, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE 

Mr. MANCUSO. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Chairman, Senator Shelby, and other distinguished Members 

of the Committee, it is a great honor to be before you today as the 

President’s nominee to be Under Secretary of Commerce for Export 

Administration. I want to thank the President and Secretary 

Gutierrez for their trust and confidence in me and for the privilege 


hsrobinson on DSK69SOYB1PROD with HEARING
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to be considered to lead and serve alongside the dedicated and talented men and women of the Bureau of Industry and Security. 

I would also like to thank my wife, Leesa, and our daughter, 

Maia—who do not live in Rhode Island, but are open to the opportunity—for their love and support, and my family and friends who 

are here today, I think filling half the room: my Mom and Dad, 

Giacinto and Francesca Mancuso; my uncle, Anthony Modika; my 

in-laws, Marty and Arlene Klepper; Abby Golden and Bill Posner; 

Brother Dominic Quigley; and Tara and Tim Kelly. Thank you. 

Finally, I want to thank you and your respective staffs. I appreciate the time you have taken to meet with me and to share your 

perspectives on the issues facing the Bureau of Industry and Security. I look forward, if confirmed, to working closely with you and 

them in the future. 

In late summer 2001, I was in the private sector practicing corporate law at Ropes and Gray, much as I had done for the better 

part of the previous decade. I represented U.S. companies and investment banks as they made their way in the competitive, fastmoving, and dynamic new international business environment. It 

was the best of times. Then 9/11 happened and everything 

changed. 

Soon after Johnny ‘‘Mike’’ Spann, a friend and jump school classmate, was identified as the first combat fatality in Afghanistan, I 

volunteered to serve a combat tour of duty in Afghanistan. Despite 

my best efforts, I did not have the opportunity to serve in Afghanistan. However, I would later have the great privilege of leading 

U.S. troops like Tim Kelly in Operation Iraqi Freedom. 

The personal details of my service are less important than the 

lesson I learned in Iraq and as a senior official at the Department 

of Defense; that is, while we are fortunate to have the world’s most 

vaunted military, national security does not rest upon military 

power alone. Instead, our national security depends upon preserving our military capabilities and advantages and integrating 

these with all elements of national power, including the economic 

power of U.S. workers and companies. 

As this Committee knows well, the Bureau of Industry and Security advances U.S. national security, foreign policy, and economic 

objectives by ensuring an efficient and effective dual-use export 

control system and by promoting continued U.S. strategic leadership and technology. BIS uses two primary tools to do this: issuing 

regulations and enforcing them. These functions are synergistic 

and both are vitally important. If confirmed, I will work diligently 

to ensure that these tools are used fully and judiciously. If confirmed, I will also work with this Committee in support of the reauthorization of the Export Administration Act pending long-term 

fundamental reform of the dual-use export control system. 

For many years, the unrivaled position of the U.S. as the economic and technology leader of the world made it possible for the 

United States to generally administer export controls without the 

need to give equal weight to economic tradeoffs of reduced exports, 

particularly since our closest competitors were also our allies and 

they agreed with export controls designed to keep sensitive items 

outside of the hands of the Soviet Union and its satellites. 


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Today, investment capital, technology, and intellectual talent are 

more widely distributed, while national perceptions of security risk 

are no longer universally shared. In light of these tectonic changes, 

the decisions BIS makes every day affect the bottom line of U.S. 

workers and U.S. companies. If confirmed, I will never forget that. 

Moreover, I will use my executive experience in the private and 

public sectors to help U.S. businesses sell their products internationally, create jobs for U.S. workers, and enhance our national 

security. 

Should I be confirmed, I will take a multifaceted approach to export controls and energetically strive to make our controls as targeted and as multilateral as possible, whenever possible. In every 

instance, I will seek maximum possible input from this Committee, 

interested members of the executive branch, and industry to ensure 

that our export control system is smart, efficient, and effective and 

takes into account the real bottom-line impacts on U.S. workers 

and companies. 

Mr. Chairman, thank you for this hearing and for considering my 

nomination. I would be delighted to take your questions. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Mr. Mancuso. 

Mr. Couch, if you have anyone you would like to introduce, 

please do so, then proceed with your statement. 

STATEMENT OF ROBERT M. COUCH, GENERAL COUNSELDESIGNATE, DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT 

Mr. COUCH. Chairman Reed, I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I would also like to thank Ranking Member Shelby for the kind words he has entered into the 

record. And thank you to all of the staff who have met with me 

over the last month. Those meetings have helped me gain important insights into the position for which I have been nominated. 

I would also like to express my sincere appreciation to President 

Bush and Secretary Jackson for their confidence in asking me to 

not only be part of the administration, but to have the confidence 

in me to serve both as the President of Ginnie Mae and as HUD’s 

Acting General Counsel. I am certainly honored to be nominated to 

serve as the General Counsel of HUD. 

If my appearance today seems like deja vu to you, it was a little 

more than a year ago that I came before this Committee as the 

need to serve as President of Ginnie Mae. I appreciate the confidence you put in me then, and I can assure you that over the last 

year, Ginnie Mae has continued to fulfill its mission of expanding 

access to affordable housing in America by linking the global capital markets to the Nation’s housing markets. I am grateful for the 

opportunity the President, Secretary Jackson, and the U.S. Senate 

gave me when I was confirmed last year. I have been extremely impressed with the professional staff at Ginnie Mae, and I strongly 

believe the organization will continue to be successful and effective 

in meeting its goals. 

Today I am before you as the nominee for the position of General 

Counsel of HUD. Just this past weekend, I was in Lexington, Virginia, celebrating my 25th law school reunion at Washington and 

Lee University. Since I graduated, I have been proud of the opporVerDate Nov 24 2008 22:38 Dec 05, 2009 Jkt 050316 PO 00000 Frm 00011 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 E:\HR\OC\A316.XXX A316

hsrobinson on DSK69SOYB1PROD with HEARING
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tunities I have had both as a lawyer and as a banker, and I believe 

my previous occupations have provided me with the skills necessary to serve as HUD’s chief legal officer. In addition, I have 

served as the Acting General Counsel for approximately 6 months, 

and I have become very familiar with the operations of the agency 

and the Office of General Counsel. 

The Office of General Counsel is a legal organization of approximately 400 lawyers with offices spread throughout the Nation. I 

have already visited several of our regional offices and have gotten 

to know many of the very talented and dedicated attorneys in the 

field and at headquarters here in Washington, D.C. Let me just say 

that I have been extremely impressed. 

If confirmed, I am committed to working with our clients within 

the agency to provide the best legal counsel possible to further 

HUD’s mission—that is, to increase homeownership, support community development, and increase access to affordable housing, 

free from discrimination. 

I would also like to thank my wife, Anne—who is here today in 

the second row—and my family for the love and support they have 

given me, especially during the move from Birmingham to D.C. 

And, Senator I am afraid I cannot take this accent to Rhode Island. 

This has been a challenging, exciting, and rewarding time for me, 

and for them as well. 

Mr. Chairman, I am very appreciative of the trust that the President and Secretary Jackson have placed in me by nominating me 

for the post of General Counsel. I am grateful for the Banking 

Committee’s consideration today, and I would be pleased to answer 

any questions you might have. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Mr. Couch. 

Mr. Tankersley, if you would make your statement and introduce 

anyone who might be accompanying you. 

STATEMENT OF MICHAEL W. TANKERSLEY, INSPECTOR GENERAL-DESIGNATE, EXPORT-IMPORT BANK OF THE UNITED 

STATES 

Mr. TANKERSLEY. I will do that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am 

Mike Tankersley of Dallas. It is an honor to appear here today as 

the President’s nominee to become the first Inspector General at 

the Export-Import Bank of the United States. I come here today 

having spent 25 years as a practicing lawyer working for clients 

that have included numerous small and growing businesses, a very 

important constituency of the Export-Import Bank, also working 

with public companies, banks, and insurance companies. Most of 

them have been U.S. based; some have been foreign. 

I have helped these clients in a variety of commercial transactions—lending, raising capital, addressing their legal compliance 

challenges. In recent years, I have spent a lot of time advising 

boards on governance matters, including the demands of the Sarbanes-Oxley act and guiding them through special investigations of 

allegations of fraud and illegality. 

Before graduating from law school, I was at the business school 

at Rice University, which, interestingly, is named for Jesse Jones, 

the second Chairman of Export-Import Bank, a fellow Texan who 

was a key adviser to President Roosevelt in establishing the Bank. 


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I have had a CPA certificate for a number of years, and while I do 

not hold myself out as being an expert in accounting, I believe that 

background will be helpful, and, if confirmed, it will prove valuable 

in serving the Bank as well. 

My investigation of the Export-Import Bank since my nomination 

has confirmed that it is well regarded here and abroad and that 

its leadership and staff are highly expert and motivated in carrying 

out the Bank’s mission and the policy directives of the Congress as 

reflected in its statute. The Bank’s reauthorization last fall in the 

final days of that Congress is, I think, a testament to the regard 

and bipartisan support the Bank enjoys with this Committee and 

the Congress as a whole. 

My conversations with Chairman Lambright and General Counsel Schweitzer have confirmed that they are supportive of the job 

I am going to be doing, if confirmed, and that they are looking forward to working together to advance the quality and the responsiveness of the Bank’s compliance and other functions that I will 

be responsible. 

The chance to serve as the first Inspector General at the Bank 

represents a unique chance to bring together all of my varied experiences and training to create a new and very important function. 

I am committed to and comfortable maintaining the degree of independence that that position requires and that Senator Allard and 

Senator Martinez and others have encouraged me to maintain. At 

the same time I hope, if confirmed, to be the sort of approachable 

Inspector General that I have been counseled is often the most effective. 

I believe my background is a good fit with the varied responsibilities of the position as an independent voice in the agency with responsibility for audits, investigations, and charged with preventing 

fraud, waste, abuse, and promoting economy and effectiveness and 

efficiency. If confirmed, I will particularly look forward to working 

with this Committee as an independent point of communication 

and with other interested Members of Congress. 

I am grateful that the President has offered me this opportunity 

to serve our Nation. I considered public service when I was getting 

out of law school in 1980, and I have harbored lingering regret that 

I did not do it at that time. My family, friends, and loved ones have 

been very supportive of my decision to seek out this opportunity, 

and if confirmed, I expect that will continue. In that regard, I 

would like to introduce to the group my very good friend, Karen 

Cornell, who is here with me today. The rest of my family were 

otherwise committed. 

I appreciate you considering my nomination today, and if you 

have any questions for me now or in the future, I would look forward to answering them. Thank you. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Mr. Tankersley. 

Dr. Van Hanh, if there is anyone you would like to introduce, 

please do so and then proceed to your statement. 

STATEMENT OF NGUYEN VAN HANH, MEMBER OF THE BOARD 

OF DIRECTORS-DESIGNATE, NATIONAL CONSUMER COOPERATIVE BANK 

Mr. VAN HANH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 


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Mr. Chairman, I am honored to appear here today as the nominee to become a Member of the Board of Directors of the National 

Consumer Cooperative Bank. I would like to thank President Bush 

for this very special nomination. 

To my parents and my family goes my deep appreciation for their 

love and support, for my education and involvement with the community for many decades. Mr. Chairman, I am here because I believe my combined experience as an economic development professional and a community leader is consistent with the mission of the 

National Consumer Cooperative Bank, also known as NCB. 

NCB was established to serve the needs of the underserved communities across the Nation, primarily through user-owned cooperatives. From its founding and continuing through today, an important element of its mission has been assisting low-income persons 

and communities. 

I was born in Vietnam, and I was naturalized as a U.S. citizen. 

My professional experience includes many years working with refugee and low-income populations. Currently, I am teaching economics at the California State University in Sacramento and working on international programs in financial education as an affiliate 

professor at George Mason University. I received my Ph.D. degree 

in economics from the University of California, Davis. 

In the late 1970’s, when thousands of refugees from Southeast 

Asia arrived in the U.S., I helped found the Bach Viet Association 

in collaboration with a group of local community leaders to provide 

socioeconomic assistance to Southeast Asian and Russian refugees. 

My work continued in the subsequent years at the national level. 

The refugees, immigrants, and minorities share the same common 

barriers in gaining access to investment capital as they were often 

perceived collectively as high-risk borrowers without track records 

or collateral. 

Most recently, from 2001 through early 2006, as Director of the 

Office of Refugee Resettlement, I had the unique opportunity to expand existing programs and to initiate new ones to address the financial needs of the growing community. For example, funds were 

allocated to the microenterprise and the individual development account, or IDA, programs, as well as the newly established Refugee 

Rural Initiative. 

I was very encouraged to learn that NCB has successfully provided effective banking and financial services to many communities 

across the Nation, the type of financial resources necessary to address the needs of the minorities I was working with. NCB has directly provided over $3 billion in specialized lending, investment, 

and technical assistance to underserved communities across the 

country, especially benefiting those in need of help in health care, 

education, affordable housing, and small business development. 

These needs are similar to those experienced by the growing population of new Americans. 

Problems created by poverty in America are being addressed by 

innovative community lending and expert technical assistance 

which has been built into NCB’s nonprofit affiliate NCB Capital 

Impact. NCB Capital Impact is designed to empower the underserved communities through self-help, democratic control, and community participation. In the past 3 years alone, NCB Capital ImVerDate Nov 24 2008 22:38 Dec 05, 2009 Jkt 050316 PO 00000 Frm 00014 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 E:\HR\OC\A316.XXX A316

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pact has financed over 4,700 units of affordable housing, 14,800 

school seats, 8,700 affordable assisted living units for seniors and 

persons with disabilities. 

Being trained as an economist with extensive experience working 

with the low-income communities, I believe I am qualified to serve 

on the Board of Directors of NCB. If confirmed, I intend to promote 

the best practices of NCB in developing access to investment capital and financial services to the low-income, to expand the partnership between the cooperative banking sector and the communities 

across the Nation, and to make a substantive contribution to the 

Board of Directors of NCB. 

Your consideration is very much appreciated, and thank you for 

the honor to be here. Please allow me to respond to any questions 

you may have at this time. Thank you. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Dr. Van Hanh. 

We have been joined by my colleague, Senator Bob Casey of 

Pennsylvania, and although we expect Representative Holden to 

come and make some comments, Ms. Herschkowitz, there is an opportunity for Senator Casey to make his comments and also introduce you, and then you can present your friends and family and 

your statement. 

Ms. HERSCHKOWITZ. Thank you. 

Senator REED. Senator Casey. 

STATEMENT OF SENATOR ROBERT P. CASEY 

Senator CASEY. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 

I want to thank Senator Reed for bringing us together today and 

thank all those who are in attendance for the time you are taking 

and the service that you are providing to the country. I have a particular honor today to introduce someone from my home State, 

Janis Herschkowitz from Lebanon County, Pennsylvania, which is 

a place that actually I know where it is and I have been there. 

Ms. HERSCHKOWITZ. Very good. 

Senator CASEY. We will not get into campaigns and elections, but 

I have been to that county, and it is a great community. But I did 

want to say a few words about Janis and also about the importance 

of this hearing. 

First of all, Janis is President and CEO of PRL, Incorporated, 

which consists of four manufacturing companies, including a foundry and a machine shop, and she also serves on the Pennsylvania 

Chamber of Business and Industry, on the board of that organization. She has been a strong advocate for small business for a number of years. She has also helped to remove obstacles from the path 

of Pennsylvanians, especially small business owners when they try 

to redevelop brownfields. She has been named one of the top 50 

Best Pennsylvania Women in Business by the Pennsylvania Department of Economic Development, and she has been nominated 

to the Board of the National Cooperative Bank, and we are honored 

that a Pennsylvanian has been so nominated. And I happy to be 

here today to support her nomination. Maybe I can ask you just in 

the short period I have right now if you would introduce your family or just tell us if they are here and if you could identify them. 

Ms. HERSCHKOWITZ. I would love to introduce my family, and 

also thank you very much for those kinds words. 


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I would like to introduce my mother, Barbara Herschkowitz; my 

sister, Pat Herschkowitz; and my boyfriend, Lieutenant Colonel 

Wallace Vitez who managed to get out of Fort Dix to be here today. 

Senator CASEY. Wow. Thank you very much. We are honored 

that your family is here. 

Ms. HERSCHKOWITZ. I would also like to thank them for their ongoing support. 

Senator CASEY. Well, thank you. We especially appreciate when 

a member of the armed services is here. We are honored. 

This gentleman on my left, Senator Reed, has a proud service 

record, and we are honored to be in his presence all the time, but 

especially when he is educating fellow members of the caucus about 

defense issues and national security issues. And I am also indebted 

to him today in a very special personal way because, as you noticed, when I came in this room, I went all the way down to my 

seat, and Senator Reed was so kind to a first-year Senator. He instructed the staff to bring me closer to the Chair. I am only inches 

away from the gavel. 

[Laughter.] 

But I do not want to get my hopes up. 

I am grateful for Senator Reed’s leadership on this Committee 

and in so many other capacities, and I will wait until a little later 

to get some questions in. Thank you very much. 

Senator REED. Thank you, Senator Casey, for those very kind 

words and for your introduction of Ms. Herschkowitz. 

Ms. Herschkowitz, if you would like to make your statement now, 

please. 

STATEMENT OF JANIS HERSCHKOWITZ, MEMBER OF THE 

BOARD OF DIRECTORS-DESIGNATE, NATIONAL CONSUMER 

COOPERATIVE BANK 

Ms. HERSCHKOWITZ. Yes. Mr. Chairman and Senator Casey, I am 

honored to appear before you today on my nomination as the Small 

Business Representative to the Board of Directors of the National 

Consumer Cooperative Bank. I am President and CEO of PRL, Inc. 

I became President of PRL, Inc., in 1989 upon the death of my father. Prior to joining the company, I was financial manager of a 

$186 million division of Zenith Financial Corporation. 

Despite PRL’s small size and the fact that we only have 122 employees, PRL is a proud supplier of high-specification castings. As 

an example, we manufacture pumps and valve bodies which are 

currently used in nuclear submarines and power plants around the 

world. We have a highly skilled labor force, feel we have the most 

vertically integrated foundry in the country, and play a critical role 

in our Nation’s defense. 

Our team’s dedication to quality is reflected in our customer 

base, which includes such important military suppliers as Electric 

Boat, Northrop Grumman, and Curtiss-Wright. Under my leadership, PRL has overcome many challenges, including opening a 

foundry, being highly leveraged while losing the majority of our 

customer base due to defense cuts, and surviving the onslaught of 

foreign outsourcing. I know the stress of trying to cover cash-flow 

while still meeting payroll obligations. I also know what it takes 


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to borrow money as, at the age of 29, I was able to obtain a bank 

loan to open a foundry. 

One of our proudest accomplishments is that as a small manufacturer, PRL has managed to thrive in an environment where the 

vast majority of our competitors have been forced to close their 

doors. I feel this business experience, coupled with my strong financial and board background, makes me an ideal candidate as the 

Small Business Representative for the Board of Directors for NCB. 

I have an MBA in finance from the University of Texas and was 

fortunate enough to serve as Chairman of the Business Advisory 

Council for the Federal Reserve Board of Philadelphia. I have also 

served on numerous other State and local boards in leadership positions, including community service organizations as well as chambers. In addition, I have a very diverse background. I have a Bachelor of Arts in international relations from Penn State University, 

grew up in Bolivia, speak Spanish, and started my career working 

at Maquiladoras and Matamoros in Juarez, Mexico, as a financial 

analyst for Zenith Corporation. This provides me with a unique 

perspective which helps me to better understand other cultures and 

enhances my decisionmaking abilities. 

However, what truly makes me particularly qualified to be a 

Member of the Board of Directors is my newly found passion for 

NCB and what they are able to do. Having undergone an extensive 

briefing process, I now understand NCB represents what a lending 

institution can accomplish when it enables people to help themselves and as a role model of public and private sector cooperation. 

In the small business market, NCB leverages relationships it 

builds with cooperatives to provide the best possible products to its 

consumers. NCB is also an SBA National Preferred Lender and has 

provided almost $30 million in loans to small businesses. In addition, the Bank is also preferred lender to Ace Hardware, which is 

one of the largest cooperatives in the country. 

The bottom line is NCB understands—and it is an issue I am 

very passionate about—that small business is the engine that runs 

today’s economy and that NCB provides a mechanism for small 

business to not only survive but also prosper. Given my business 

and life experiences, I feel I can play a significant role in further 

realizing the Bank’s mission. 

In closing, I would be proud to serve as a Board Member to the 

National Consumer Cooperative Bank, appreciate your consideration, and would welcome the opportunity to answer any questions. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Ms. Herschkowitz. Thank 

you all for your very excellent testimony. 

We will begin a round of 7 minutes of questioning. As I indicated 

previously, Chairman Dodd has submitted questions in writing, 

and those questions and your responses will be made part of the 

record, as well as any additional questions submitted by my colleagues. 

Let me start with Mr. Nason, and thank you again for your service as you go forward. One of the issues that this Committee and 

the Nation are struggling with is the competitiveness in a global 

economy of our financial markets, and in your position, you are 

going to have a critical role in that review. I wonder if you might 

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plating in terms of this competitiveness between, for want of better 

terms, Wall Street and many other financial markets? 

Mr. NASON. Thank you for that question, Senator. That is something that I will be focused on very closely with Secretary Paulson 

on this. As you know, we recently had a large conference where a 

series of ideas were provided to dealing with this, and there are 

three baskets of issue that the Secretary has identified that he 

would like me to focus on, if confirmed. 

The first is our regulatory structure in the United States as to 

whether or not our regulatory structure for financial institutions 

and capital markets is optimal for changing and more dynamic capital markets. 

The second basket of issues that he would like me to focus on 

specifically is the challenges facing the auditing profession. The auditing profession has developed and has changed dramatically in 

the last few years. There is a greater amount of concentration 

among the accounting firms, and it is an issue, and the accounting 

profession is critically important to our capital markets, and they 

deserve more attention and more analysis from the Treasury Department. 

And the third issue that we will be focusing on is the corporate 

governance issue and legal reform issues within the FIRN because 

there are a lot of changing dynamics going on right there, so we 

will be studying that as well. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much. Let me follow up with another question. One of the burning issues at the moment are hedge 

funds, their operations, their activities. There is concern lately 

about the leverage that hedge funds are deploying in the marketplace. And I know the President’s Working Group has looked at 

this very closely. Can you talk to us about what further steps they 

might be taking, what further advice they might have for the Congress? 

Mr. NASON. Certainly. I am glad you raise the issue. 

As you refer to, the President’s Working Group on Capital Markets recently released a Statement of Principles and Guidelines regarding private pools of capital and hedge funds, and these were 

an opportunity for the members of the President’s Working Group, 

which is the Treasury Secretary and the other financial regulators, 

to speak with one voice about what needs to occur to reflect a 

changing marketplace that hedge funds are participating in. These 

principles and guidelines are not a reflection or an endorsement of 

the status quo. They are a reflection of all the regulators suggesting that each of them needs to do more and heightened vigilance within the current regulatory structure. 

So what the Secretary has asked me to do and other members 

of the domestic finance team is to reach out to the regulators, reach 

out to the community and the constituents that are involved in the 

private pools of capital space, the managers, the people that lend 

private pools of capital money, and the regulators to ensure that 

people are taking these guidelines seriously, that people are following up on them, and if there is more that we need to do on the 

Government side, that we should do it. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Mr. Nason. 


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Let me suspend my questions right now and recognize Representative Tim Holden of Pennsylvania. I had the privilege of 

serving with Tim in the House of Representatives. He is a remarkable Representative not only for Pennsylvania but for the Nation, 

and we are respectful of the busy schedule of House Members, Tim, 

so please take your opportunity to make your comments about Ms. 

Herschkowitz. 

STATEMENT OF TIM HOLDEN, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM 

THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA 

Representative HOLDEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Senator 

Casey. I apologize for being a little bit late, but, Mr. Chairman, you 

remember in the House days that the schedule cannot really be 

predicted. 

But I just wanted to take a moment really to recommend my constituent, Jan Herschkowitz, who has been nominated to serve on 

the Board of Directors for the National Consumer Cooperative 

Bank. I have had the privilege of knowing Jan over the last 5 years 

when redistricting occurred in Pennsylvania and Lebanon County 

became part of the 17th Congressional District, which I represent. 

She is a remarkable woman, a tremendous business person, 

served as CEO for her company, since the passing of her father, for 

19 years. It is a company, PRL Industries, which is a very successful company, does a lot of defense work, does a lot of submarine 

work, Mr. Chairman, which I know is near and dear to Rhode Island. And Jan is also very, very active in our community. She is 

a Past Chairman of the Lebanon Valley Chamber of Commerce, appointee of the White House Conference on Small Business, recipient of the Pennsylvania Top 50 Best Businesswomen Business 

Award, and Chairman of the Reserve Bank of Philadelphia. 

Mr. Chairman, I have to admit I did not know a heck of a lot 

about the National Consumer Cooperative Bank until Jan was 

nominated for this position, but I have had a chance to review 

what their mission is and what their goals are, and I would just 

take this opportunity to highly recommend Jan. I think she would 

be a successful and very, very positive Board Member. 

So thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Senator Casey. 

Senator REED. Thank you. 

Senator Casey, do you have a comment? 

Senator CASEY. Well, I just want to reiterate what I had said 

earlier, first of all, to commend the work of Congressman Tim 

Holden. I have known him a long time as well, and, by the way, 

I should say he does better in Lebanon County than I do. 

[Laughter.] 

But I am grateful for his presence here and his knowledge of 

your work, and it is critically important that we have Members of 

the House of Representatives and the Senate who understand all 

of our constituents, those we have known a long time and those we 

are just getting to know. So we are honored to second what Congressman Tim Holden just said. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, and I know how hectic it 

is in the house, and thank you so much for coming by, Congressman. 


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Representative HOLDEN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Senator 

Casey. 

Senator REED. Let me resume my questioning. 

Mr. Mancuso, in your role you have significant responsibilities 

about the export control system, and there is an inherent tension 

between trade and security. I would be curious about your reflections about those close calls between security and trade. Are we in 

balance? Are we not doing enough to protect security in order to 

encourage trade? Or are we restricting trade unnecessarily? Do you 

have some initial thoughts at least? 

Mr. MANCUSO. Yes, I do, Mr. Chairman. What I would like to say 

is that, to some extent—I would not say that those values are contradictory. I think sometimes they are divergent and they just have 

to be balanced very, very carefully, which is why the efficient administration of the export control regime is so important, which is 

why it is important to reach out to industry, to reach out to the 

interagency to make them as multilateral as possible. 

What I would say is that this position is a national security position, but as I mentioned in my opening comments, it really depends 

on your definition of ‘‘national security.’’ We do not have the luxury 

of defining it narrowly. Economic power is critically important. The 

contributions of industry are critically important. 

What I would say, sir, is that in the challenges as I understand 

the challenges that BIS is facing right now, it is this careful balance. How do you participate in a globalizing and very complex 

economy while at the same time minimizing the risks that come 

with that? The balance is difficult to strike, but what I would say, 

sir, is this: The Under Secretary for BIS must be mindful of national security; however, at all times the export control regime has 

to balance these sometimes divergent interests, has to balance 

them carefully, with full consultation with the private sector, with 

members of the interagency, obviously with this Committee, so that 

it fulfills its mandate. 

Senator REED. Thank you. Recently, Secretary Gutierrez submitted a proposal for reauthorizing the Export Administration Act, 

and I presume you have had a chance at least to take a look at 

that. Your role, if you are confirmed, would be to help move that 

legislation through the Congress, and in that regard, are there any 

specific issues there that you think are most critical to focus on? 

Mr. MANCUSO. Mr. Chairman, well, I would start by saying it is 

critically important to have it reauthorized, for a variety of, frankly, independently sufficient reasons. 

One is that what the Act would do, as I understand it, is expand 

the authorities under which BIS’ enforcement agents would operate, which are key to its mission. 

Second, it would heighten penalties, so create a better incentive 

structure for BIS to carry out its enforcement function. But I think 

I would like to take a step back and talk about the BIS mission 

holistically. 

BIS, as I mentioned in my statement, has a policy function; it 

issues regulations. And it also has this enforcement function. Both 

of those two are synergistic, which is why it is critically important 

to pass this legislation. And if I would be confirmed, I would look 


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forward to working with this Committee and working with Congress to try to get it passed. 

Senator REED. Thank you, Mr. Mancuso. 

I have questions for all the panel, but let me at this moment recognize Senator Casey for his round of questioning, and then we will 

have a second round, at least. 

Thank you, Senator. 

Senator CASEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Janis, I think I will start with you and leave it open to others 

as well. But one of the things that we are struggling with in the 

Senate today—and it has been a challenge for many years now, but 

especially in the last couple of years—and I have only been here 

a couple of months, but I heard about this everywhere across our 

State. It is the issue of health care. I think most people, even 

though who believe we could have, that we should have health care 

for all Americans, the 47 million—and that number keeps going 

up—who do not have health insurance, that that is not going to 

happen anytime soon, but we should take substantial steps in that 

direction. 

One of the ways we are going to do that this year, that we must 

do—we cannot fail in this, and I think the administration is—to 

say they are shortsighted on this is an understatement. I have to 

say that in all candor. But it is the State Children’s Health Insurance Program, to make sure that gets reauthorized so we can have 

it in place for the millions of children across the country who benefit from that. 

After that, after children’s health insurance, there is very little 

consensus on what we should do next in terms of taking a positive 

step or a substantial step in the right direction. 

I want to ask you, as someone who has not only run a business 

under difficult circumstances, but also someone who has been part 

of groups that deal with all kinds of business issues across the 

State and across central Pennsylvania: What do you think this 

Senate, this Congress could do to help in terms of taking a positive 

step on creating opportunities for small businesses to have the benefit of expanded health care or other steps that would help you insure more of your employees or to give other businesses the opportunity to do that? 

Ms. HERSCHKOWITZ. Well, it is obviously a very sticky issue, and 

we have put up, particularly with our workforce, because they tend 

to be older and primarily men, because it is the foundry industry, 

and they tend to be in the worst demographics because they really 

do not take care of their health when they are younger and tend 

to go to the doctor at the last moment, so it becomes very costly 

at later ages. 

I think small business can play a role in this. I strongly believe 

that small business and sole proprietors should be allowed to deduct their health insurance. I think that would help. I am a huge 

mandate for health competition. I also believe in health savings accounts, and very similar to cooperatives such as the National Consumer Cooperative Bank, where small businesses can pull together 

to gather their resources together in order to have more purchasing 

power. But it is probably one of the top three issues that we are 

confronted with. 


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I also think if you want to take a look at Governor Rendell’s 

plan, he has an awful lot of good advice on the cost side in terms 

of cutting health care costs so it can be more competitive. And then 

once we determine the cost savings that can be realized, we can get 

a budget to decide if the other part of it becomes applicable. 

Senator CASEY. Can you tell us, just in the last—I am trying to 

give some good boundaries here. Just within the last year, if you 

compare, let’s say, the calendar years 2005 to 2006—we are in the 

middle of 2007, but 2005 to 2006, a 1-year increase in health care 

costs in terms of your business, and then maybe look back 5 years. 

Can you give us a ball park number in terms of how that has gone 

up or whether it has gone up substantially? 

Ms. HERSCHKOWITZ. It has gone up significantly. I tend to not 

have a broker and I negotiate it myself, and I have found that if 

you take it to the end, you can get a further reduction. But I do 

know 1 year the initial increase was 32 percent, and we managed 

to get it down to 8 percent. This past year, we had a better experience. Because we are experience-rated with 122 employees, we 

were able to—I think last year’s increase was around 5 percent. 

And it is sort of ironic in our business where you are not allowed 

to increase costs when you are happy when you have a 5-percent 

increase. But it is truly a problem that we grapple with every day, 

and it has become a higher percentage of our benefit costs. 

Senator CASEY. Well, you have figured out something that Washington has not figured out by keeping those costs down, so we may 

have to have you back. 

But I also want to direct at least one question, or two, to other 

members of this panel, and in particular, I know that this issue of 

health care is pervasive. It is in every agency and every business. 

And I am just wondering if anyone else has a point of view in 

terms of what you think this Congress must do on this issue. Anyone who wants to chime in? No volunteers? 

[Laughter.] 

Well, we got a consensus on that. 

The other question that I wanted to ask was—and if you have 

comments that you want to submit in writing, that is fine. We will 

try to keep them, not make them as public. But in terms of HUD, 

the Community Development Block Grants, that has been slated to 

be cut back. That program has been slated to be cut back. I think 

it is a big mistake. It has a particularly adverse impact on Pennsylvania in a lot of our communities, and not just some cities. A lot 

of town will benefit from that. So I would ask you if you could comment on where we are with that proposal and what your perspective is from the administration’s point of view. 

Mr. COUCH. Yes, Senator, I would be glad to comment on it, but 

it is really nothing that is within my purview. It falls with the 

Community Planning and Development Office within HUD, and I 

can certainly get to you a response in writing about that. 

The Administration’s FY 2008 budget request for the CDBG program represents the fact that difficult choices must be made with respect to discretionary domestic spending. Nonetheless, the Administration is seeking 

slightly more than $3 billion for CDBG in FY 2008, similar to the prior fiscal year. 

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form proposal would replace the existing dual formula approach with a single formula, which better reflects existing community development needs. 

While some Pennsylvania CDBG grantees would experience a funding reduction, other grantees such as Allentown, Lancaster, Philadelphia and 

Reading would see funding increases under the revised formula when appropriation levels are held constant. CDBG grantees would also be eligible 

to seek additional funding through the proposed CDBG Challenge Fund, 

which would serve as an incentive to grantees to target development resources to the neediest neighborhoods in their communities. 

I did sit in on the budget hearings last week before the Appropriations Committee and heard the Secretary remark on the difficult situation that we have. You know, it is a tight budget and 

difficult decisions have to be made. 

I know that I also overheard the discussion about trying to make 

the CDBG process more equitable so that formulas that may have 

gotten somewhat outdated can be revisited. But I really would 

defer to the Assistant Secretary for CPD on that question. 

Senator CASEY. I would ask if you would make sure you submit 

an answer to that question. 

Mr. COUCH. I will make sure she does. 

Senator CASEY. And, Mr. Mancuso, I wanted to ask you a question about trade. We have seen our trade deficit spiral out of control, especially in the last couple of years, and we are forever told 

that trade agreements that this country has already entered into 

and those that we are planning to debate in the years ahead will 

solve some of our major trade problems and the tremendous deficit 

that we have right now. 

Upon confirmation, you will be playing a role in this, and I want 

to get your sense of where we are in terms of a strategy from this 

administration to lower that trade deficit. 

Mr. MANCUSO. Thank you, sir. Thank you, Senator. 

You know, I was struck by the testimony that was given by Ms. 

Herschkowitz on the plight of PRL Industries and how it struggles, 

in her case, with health care, and I am sure with other issues. But 

it is precisely those kinds of companies, those kinds of stories, that 

kind of input that is critical, I think, to a Government official, in 

my instance, should I be confirmed as an Under Secretary, in 

thinking about the export control regime specifically, but also in 

thinking about trade. 

As I understand it from my briefings at Commerce, Commerce 

has taken the position, which is the administration position, that 

as these trade agreements are negotiated—which, of course, are 

larger than BIS’ purview—dual-use export control regimes—that 

the elements of export control, having effective export controls have 

been integrated into those trade administrations. 

That is the extent to which Commerce would be involved from a 

trade perspective, but I would just underscore what I think is the 

nub of your question, that the impacts on American workers and 

jobs and companies are critically important, and should I be confirmed, to the extent that the dual-use export control system implicates those interests, which it does a tremendous amount, I as 

Under Secretary working with the men and women of BIS, working 

with our interagency colleagues, working with industries, companies like Ms. Herschkowitz’s company, will take that into account 

as best we can, balancing the equities. 


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Senator CASEY. Thank you. 

Mr. MANCUSO. Thank you. 

Senator CASEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Senator Casey. 

Mr. Couch, this is another question which is not under your purview as nominee for legal counsel, but you might indicate to Secretary Jackson that I for one—and I think I am not alone—am concerned about the fact that in the Section 8 housing program, it is 

my understanding that HUD has not yet told State housing agencies and local housing agencies what level of funding they are getting for fiscal year 2007 and we are halfway through. I know there 

are some technical issues here, but the faster they can notify people about what they can expect, the better off we will be. And we 

will communicate in writing to the Secretary, but you might see 

him sooner than he gets the note, and let him know that is coming. 

On an issue that is within your responsibilities prospectively as 

the legal counsel, on April 30th HUD issued a notice that it will 

no longer provide vouchers to replace each unit of public housing 

that is being demolished or sold. This is a tremendous potential 

loss of support for people who desperately need it. They lose their 

public housing, there is no voucher, they are sometimes literally 

out in the cold. 

It is interesting that this proposal was made but rejected by Congress just 2 months previously. It was not incorporated in the continuing resolution for fiscal year 2007. So that raises a legal issue. 

To what extent do you think it is wise to essentially by policy announce a decision that was proposed for a legislative change that 

was rejected, if you can follow that tortured logic, Mr. Couch. 

Mr. COUCH. Senator Reed, in all honesty this is the first time 

that this has come to my attention from a legal standpoint. The Office of General Counsel, I do not believe, was asked nor offered an 

opinion. But I can certainly go back and look at it and submit to 

you in writing a policy stand. 

Senator REED. I understand that, you know, as someone awaiting 

appointment to the job, all these details might not be immediately 

available. But as you go forward, this is a situation that happens 

all too often, where legislative proposals are made, effectively rejected, and suddenly there is an administrative policy. I would hope 

you would be very sensitive to the effect that has and also whether 

or not it would be your advice to do that. 

Mr. COUCH. Yes, sir, I will be very sensitive to that. 

Senator REED. Well, excuse me. You are currently acting, so that 

you were not consulted? 

Mr. COUCH. No, sir, I was not. 

Senator REED. That might be another thing you could bring up 

with the Secretary. Why weren’t you consulted? I would think that 

would call for a legal, if not opinion, at least some informal advice 

about the proprietary of doing that. 

Mr. COUCH. Normally, yes, Senator, I think you would be correct. 

In this case, I do not know what the timing was of that particular 

issue. It may have preceded my involvement with the Office of 

General Counsel. 

Senator REED. And let me raise another issue that is somewhat 

analogous, and that is, in the 2006 Appropriations Act, Congress 


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directed HUD to extend moving-to-work contracts that were expiring that year for a period of 3 additional years. Now we understand 

that HUD may soon be offering all MTW agencies 10-year contract 

extensions. And, again, taking those actions seems to be contradictory to what legislatively we were proposing. And this is an area 

that we very well might be examining in the next several months 

in Congress. 

It raises the question of what is the legal basis for the 10-year 

contract extension. Do you have an ability to comment on that? 

Mr. COUCH. No, sir. This is, once again, an issue that I am unaware of. To the best of my knowledge, under the legislation there 

would not be a restriction in extending the contract for a longer period of time, but I would have to go back and do the research. 

Senator REED. Well, thank you, Mr. Couch. I have had the opportunity to work with you and you bring a superb background to a 

very challenging job. I look forward to going forward to working 

with you. But, again, there is a certain sensitivity to administrative 

actions that appear, at least on the surface, to contradict the specific intent of the Congress, and we should be sensitive to that. 

Mr. COUCH. I pledge to you, Chairman Reed, to be sensitive to 

that issue. 

Senator REED. Thank you, Mr. Couch. 

Mr. Tankersley, again, you are the first Inspector General of the 

Export-Import Bank, if you are confirmed, and I am just curious. 

How do you see this new role? You have really the ability to kind 

of write the script, if you will. 

Mr. TANKERSLEY. It is a unique opportunity to do that. I have 

taken the opportunity to, you know, read the Inspector Generals 

Act, and there is a wealth of material available among the Inspector General community. I had a chance to speak to at least one of 

them about their views of how to startup an office. The Inspector 

Generals have only been in business since, I believe, 1978, so it is 

still within living memory of most agencies, the work they had to 

do to get one in place. 

The Export-Import Bank is a little bit unusual when you look at 

the range of Inspector Generals. It is much closer to a private sector financial institution than an agency that makes regulations or 

distributes grants, and because it is in the business of, you know, 

putting money out and bringing it back and assisting business, my 

preliminary thoughts are that something closer to what you would 

find in a well-run compliance function of an international financial 

institution is what will be called for. And I am expecting, if confirmed, to approach it in that way, which would be to analyze 

where the risks are in the agency, both financial fraud risks as well 

as policy compliance risks, and address those constructively as they 

appear, including with input from this Committee in the areas of 

policy implementation, particularly that the members and the staff 

are concerned about. 

I have not wanted to get ahead of myself, anticipating this hearing and the confirmation process to come, but assuming things go 

well, you can expect I am going to be spending quite a lot of time 

working up the learning curve and developing that function. 

Perhaps the one piece of advice I got that was the most interesting from a fellow who is serving as a compliance officer for an 


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international financial institution, he said, ‘‘Well, how many people 

work at the agency?’’ And I said, ‘‘About 400.’’ He said, ‘‘Well, that 

is a good number to have in your compliance group.’’ He emphasized that it really is the responsibility of everybody at the agency 

to carry forward the objectives of the Office of IG, and I think I am 

looking forward to my role of helping them do things that they are 

already doing. 

Senator REED. One of the things that strikes me about Inspector 

Generals—and this comes more from my experience in the military—is that the executive you work with is not your client. In fact, 

sometimes you have to tell him or her some very difficult facts and 

truths. The real client is the public, and to maintain not only organizationally but also kind of intellectually that separation is challenging. I am sure you have thought about that. 

Mr. TANKERSLEY. It is something I have thought about. My father was an auditor his entire career, very highly regarded among 

his clients. I think my partners would tell you that I am perhaps 

more independently minded than I need to be sometimes. And so 

I think I am prepared to engage in the intellectual and the emotional aspects of balancing that independence, and delivering difficult news at times if that is what needs to happen. 

I will say my impression from speaking with Chairman 

Lambright and with General Counsel Schweitzer is that they are 

very mature, confident people, and their attitude expressed to me 

is that if there is a problem, we want to be the first to know about 

it and we want to be the first on the job to fix it. And I think with 

that attitude, the job of the Inspector General should be not overly 

difficult to implement. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Mr. Tankersley. 

Senator Casey, if you have questions. 

Senator CASEY. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I wanted to follow up on that, Mr. Tankersley, the question of 

the role you play and the independence that you must exercise. I 

was happy to hear what you just said. I had a position, an elected 

position, in State government in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, by the 

name of Auditor General. In some States it is called State Auditor. 

But that is a position where you have to maintain independence, 

and I was struck by—and I was not here for the testimony you provided initially, but I was reading your statement where it says in 

part, on page 2, ‘‘Preventing fraud, waste, and abuse and promoting economy, effectiveness, and efficiency.’’ It is music to the 

ears of any auditor, but also to, I think, the public. And it is a significant responsibility that you will take on upon confirmation, and 

I know you will discharge that with the integrity you have brought 

to your other work. But it is very important because the one thing 

that crumbles very quickly in a public agency or in an administration or any public office or agency, if trust takes a hit, almost like 

a piece of China dropping on the ground, you cannot recover. And 

I think you have a significant responsibility that you are taking on, 

and I appreciate you doing that. It is critically important. 

I know we are limited on time, but I did want to move to Mr. 

Nason with regard to Treasury. I was looking at your statement as 

well, and at the bottom of the page 1, when you are talking about 

some of the responsibilities that you would have, you list carrying 


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out the responsibilities relating to financial institutions’ policy, critical infrastructure protection, and financial education. We could 

talk a long time about all of those, but financial education especially in this era not just of complex financing arrangements or in 

some cases schemes, but also in the context of this predatory lending mess and scandal that we have seen across the country about 

which we need to have a lot of crackdowns, and maybe some 

cracked heads—figuratively speaking, of course. But I think financial education is going to be critically important in that dynamic 

for consumers who—and it could happen to any one of us, and 

those of us who talk about this cannot talk about it in a pejorative 

way, that somehow there are people out there who do not understand what they are doing and we here in Washington have to help 

them. That is pejorative. This could happen to any one of us, what 

we have seen. 

But I want to have you talk for a couple of minutes about what 

your—two parts, really. First of all, what you think your job, your 

main job is upon confirmation, but specifically about this issue of 

financial education. 

Mr. NASON. Thank you for that question, and I share your views 

about the importance of financial education. The reason that my 

statement had those three segments is that those are the direct 

lines that will report to me, so they are the three formal baskets 

of issues that I will have to cover if confirmed as the Assistant Secretary for Financial Institutions. 

But I am very dedicated and very interested in pursuing financial education, and although this was not part of my specific job, 

right now my current job as the Deputy Assistant Secretary one of 

the more rewarding experiences I had while in my last year and 

a half at Treasury was on the financial education front. 

Chairman Reed, I went back to the home State of Rhode Island, 

taught a class at Warrick Vets High School, and it was part of 

Treasury’s outreach for ‘‘Get Smart About Credit Day.’’ And so you 

go into a high school, and, you know, a bunch of teenagers, and you 

are trying to reach out to them and talk to them about credit card 

policy and debit cards. And it is hard. It is hard to talk to teenagers about this issue, and you wonder whether or not you are connecting, and I tried a variety of different techniques to connect 

with these individuals. And I thought I was moderately successful. 

But when I came back to Washington a couple of days later, I 

got a stack of letters. It turns out that the kids were listening, and 

they had a lot of specific points and comments about some of the 

things that we were talking about. And I thought it was very rewarding. 

So what I would like to do on financial education, if confirmed, 

is two things: first, I think we need to push a literacy agenda in 

the schools in education, and it needs to be part of the things that 

teachers talk about; and, second, it needs to be more part of the 

fabric of the workplace, because people are busy, people are overextended. If you can get employers to participate in financial education programs on company time, show a commitment to it, then 

I think you will have a lot of progress on those fronts. 

So those are the two areas where I think financial education 

would be very beneficial, and I think it would be very helpful in 


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terms of dealing with some of the predatory lending practices that 

you referred to. And I look forward to working with you and your 

staff on these issues, if confirmed. 

Senator CASEY. Thank you. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Senator Casey. 

I would like to first commend Dr. Van Hanh and Ms. 

Herschkowitz because they bring extraordinary experience to this 

very important organization, and your work, Dr. Van Hanh, with 

refugees, with issues particularly affecting the rural communities, 

and then, Ms. Herschkowitz, your business acumen and your experiences, I think will add a lot. 

Let me address the same question. Given your review of NCB activities, what would you say right now is the strength and the 

weakness of the operation as you approach these tasks? Dr. Van 

Hanh, which you please proceed? 

Mr. VAN HANH. Senator, first of all, thank you very much for 

your remark. I would like to say that the strength as far as I see 

NCB is, the model that NCB offers in terms of provision of financial resources for investment to the communities, not only for just 

any single group of people, but for very diverse communities in 

need, for the elderly, for those in need of housing, education, and 

so on. That would be one of the strengths by itself. 

The other strength is that this banking institution has managed 

to operate first-class activities and programs that clearly have 

quality of services provided to the underserved. 

Adding to that remark, my view is that not necessarily in terms 

of weaknesses but in terms of effectively meeting the needs of the 

low-income population, I would like to mention that the low-income 

population here in my view would constitute not only the low-income in any ethnic group, but it covers all of the minorities as well 

as any groups that would need financial assistance. 

The problem I could see is that there is a challenge ahead of us 

to look into the real needs of certain communities in areas whereby 

income distribution may not be at optimum as there is a considerable level of disparity in income, and the access to investment capital may not be currently available to all. 

So matching the supply, which is an excellent model of banking 

services by NCB, and the demand from the local folks especially 

where the needs are unmet in certain communities. I would like to 

see the opportunity and the challenge to bring the two together. 

Senator REED. Thank you very much, Doctor. 

And, Ms. Herschkowitz, your assessment after reviewing the 

goals, objectives, and programs, the strengths and weaknesses? 

Ms. HERSCHKOWITZ. Yes, what strikes me with the National Cooperative Bank is—and I think particularly as you start having the 

big-box stores and other larger commercial entities move into communities, and you sort of see the small business decimated, I think 

the big strength of NCB is the opportunity to be able to utilize a 

cooperative to get small businesses to band together not only to 

survive but compete against the larger stores. I think the opportunity and probably what I could bring to the table with my entrepreneurial background is there is a huge opportunity to exploit this 

even further in terms of it is a large-scale, untapped opportunity 

in my view. They do an awful lot of business. They do millions of 


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dollars. But I think compared to the whole small business economy, 

there is a huge opportunity there to help them to be able to compete. 

Senator REED. Thank you. 

Senator Casey, do you have additional questions? 

Senator CASEY. Just by way of conclusion, Senator, I want to 

thank you for bringing us together today for this hearing, and 

thank everyone who testified today, and also to not only wish you 

luck on your confirmations, but also to thank you for your willingness to serve. It is not easy to serve in any governmental position, 

and we appreciate you putting yourselves forward and bringing 

your talents and your experiences to these important offices. 

Thank you very much. 

Senator REED. Thank you, Senator Casey. 

Let me associate myself with your remarks, Senator, and thank 

you all for your commitment to public service, your demonstrated 

commitment already to public service, and for your excellent testimony and response today. 

Let me again remind you that some of my colleagues may submit 

written questions, and we ask you to respond to these questions as 

promptly as possible in order that we may proceed further with 

your nomination. There is a certain self-interest in responding. 

The witnesses are excused, and the hearing is now adjourned. 

Thank you. 

[Whereupon, at 4:20 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.] 

[Prepared statements and response to written questions supplied 

for the record follow:] 


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RESPONSE TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS OF SENATOR DODD 

FROM MARIO MANCUSO 

Q.1. Export Administration Act. Mr. Mancuso, Secretary of 

Commerce Gutierrez recently submitted to Congress a proposal for 

reauthorizing the Export Administration Act, which expired in 

2001 and has yet to be reauthorized. Would you describe the importance of enacting this legislation and explain your specific qualifications for shepherding through U.S. efforts to improve enforcement of export controls? 

A.1. Mr. Chairman, the reauthorization of the Export Administration Act (EAA) is a top priority for Secretary Gutierrez and, if I am 

confirmed, it will be a top priority for me. I believe the reauthorization of the EAA will enhance the Bureau of Industry and Security’s 

(BIS) ability to perform its core mission: to keep the most sensitive 

dual-use items away from the most dangerous countries, organizations, and individuals. 

With the EAA in lapse, BIS’s enforcement authority rests upon 

the authorities contained in the International Emergency Economic 

Powers Act and certain executive orders. This legal foundation is 

not optimally suited to investigate, prosecute and deter violations 

of the EAA. As I understand the Administration’s proposal, it 

would reauthorize the EAA for five years, provide certain enhanced 

authorities to BIS criminal investigators, and increase the criminal 

and administrative penalties for those who violate our export control laws. If confirmed, I look forward to working closely with this 

Committee and the Congress to see that the EAA is reauthorized. 

In light of my extensive private sector experience as a corporate 

lawyer, my recent experience as a senior national security official, 

and my management and leadership experience generally, I am 

well-prepared to lead BIS’s efforts to administer and enforce an efficient and effective dual-use export control regime. 

Q.2. Irregular Warfare. Mr. Mancuso, as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations, you have overseen the ‘‘Irregular Warfare Roadmap,’’ a strategy to apparently enlist indigenous people overseas in certain covert counter-terrorism operations. 

According to some accounts, these operations may now be conducted without explicit concurrence from the U.S. Chiefs of Mission 

in the corresponding countries. Would you explain the justification 

for such a policy? Were concerns raised by the State Department 

on behalf of Chiefs of Mission at the beginning that they were left 

in the dark about potentially highly controversial activities? How 

were concerns by State dealt with? Wouldn’t such a unilaterally 

pursued strategy appear to harm inter-agency cooperation which is 

so critical for U.S. foreign policy in a variety of areas, including export controls? What are the legal ramifications of excluding the 

State Department from this strategy, particularly as it relates to 

our obligation to uphold and comply with universal norms and 

international law? 

A.2. Mr. Chairman, I would like to affirmatively state that I believe it is essential that all organs of the U.S. government work in 

as close and coordinated a way as possible to achieve the policies 

our government may wish to pursue, whether those policies relate 

to counterterrorism or export controls. In most instances, our laws 


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require it; in every case, good government demands it. For counterterrorism operations, this close coordination between the Departments of State and Defense is absolutely critical, especially since 

these operations often have significant political dimensions which 

are best assessed by—and implicate the lawful authorities of—the 

Chiefs of Mission. 

Sir, I want to emphasize that there are numerous authorities 

that clearly define the extent of a Chief of Mission’s legal prerogatives, including the President’s Letter of Instruction to Chiefs of 

Mission. In my view, any infringement of those authorities would 

be highly improper and counterproductive in the near-term (especially with respect to our ability to execute counterterrorism operations), but also to the long-term institutional ability of the State 

Department to conduct foreign policy for our country. 

In my personal experience during my tenure as Deputy Assistant 

Secretary of Defense, there has always been close coordination and 

consultation between the Departments of State and Defense (and 

the interagency generally) on all matters, operational or otherwise, 

in which my office was directly involved. In the course of such close 

coordination and consultation, there have been occasional disagreements. Such disagreements, however, have been few in number 

and good faith executive branch disagreements on complex policy 

questions that were resolved in the ordinary course during the 

interagency process. 

With respect to export controls, I share your view that interagency consultation is necessary. I would also respectfully suggest 

that, in light of the salience of export controls and the complexity 

of the global economy, similar cooperation and consultation must 

extend to all stakeholders, including industry, and to our friends 

and allies around the world. 

Sir, in closing I would add that that the Irregular Warfare Roadmap (the ‘‘Roadmap’’) is a capabilities-centric document, and does 

not touch upon the conduct of current operations, as is implied by 

your question. Most importantly, I did not oversee, help draft or 

otherwise meaningfully participate in the Roadmap. The Roadmap 

was a product of the Quadrennial Defense Review, which was overseen by the Deputy Secretary of Defense and the most senior members of the Department of Defense leadership. To the limited extent 

I was involved in the Roadmap, it was to support the Assistant 

Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low Intensity Conflict in facilitating the implementation of the Roadmap’s long-term 

capability development recommendations, and then only as they related to special operations forces. In September 2006, I described 

the Department’s vision for Irregular Warfare in my testimony before the House Armed Services Committee. A copy of this testimony 

is respectfully attached for your information. 

Q.3. Enemy Combatant Status. Mr. Mancuso, you have been 

widely quoted championing the Administration’s ‘‘enemy combatant’’/detainee policies. In an interview with an official Pentagon 

publication, the American Forces Press Service in March 2005, you 

voiced adamant objections both to abiding by the Geneva Conventions and to granting POW status to detainees at Guantanamo 

Bay. POW status is ‘‘sort of like earning ‘Gold Card’ status on a 

credit card,’’ you said, ‘‘You have to earn it.’’ What did you mean 


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by these comments? Would you agree that by ratifying the Geneva 

Conventions, they now have the weight of domestic law? Please explain how you interpret Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions and what obligations it imposes on the United States? 

A.3. Mr. Chairman, I conducted two interviews in March 2005 with 

the Armed Forces Press Service, an internal Department of Defense 

news service, at the request of the Department of Defense’s public 

affairs office. At the request of your staff, I previously provided to 

your office a copy of the public affairs guidance that I used to prepare for these interviews. 

During these interviews, I was asked to describe the government’s legal framework for the war on terror. I was asked these 

questions in my capacity as a non-political appointee, GS15 government lawyer. 

I used the metaphor of a ‘‘Gold Card’’ to illustrate two aspects 

of the government’s view of the operation of the Geneva Conventions: (i) that formal POW status must be conferred to an individual when certain specified criteria are met (e.g., wear uniforms); 

and (ii) once these specified criteria are met, certain rights automatically follow—over and above dignified and humane treatment. 

At no time did I mean to obscure one very important point: whether formally designated a POW or not, all captured battlefield persons are entitled to humane and dignified treatment. 

Mr. Chairman, I am a corporate lawyer by training, not a litigator and much less a public international law expert. During my 

almost two and a half years at the Department of Defense, I have 

spent the past 20 months on policy matters relating to our special 

operations forces, and not the very important legal issues you raise. 

Moreover, during my six and a half months as a staff attorney in 

the Office of the General Counsel of the Department of Defense 

from late January to mid-August 2005, I worked on legal matters 

unrelated to detainees. Detainee issues were (and still are) handled 

by a separate office within the Department of Defense. 

While I do not have an informed personal opinion about either 

the weight of the Geneva Conventions in our domestic law or the 

operation of Common Article 3, I am generally aware that the U.S. 

Supreme Court recently addressed both of these issues in the 

Hamdan decision. It is my understanding that these issues have 

been settled as a matter of law. In any event, I recognize these are 

critically important issues for our country, and appreciate that you 

care a great deal about them. 

Q.4. International Law. Would you explain your commitment to 

promoting international norms, standards and customary law in 

the implementation of U.S. foreign policy. How might upholding 

such standards actually strengthen our efforts to protect U.S. dualuse technologies from falling into the wrong hands? 

A.4. Mr. Chairman, it is my belief that the U.S. should set the example for the world by adhering to international law and promoting the highest norms and standards of responsible global citizenship in all of our activities, including in the conduct of our foreign policy. I believe this approach is most consistent with our core 

values as a country, is critical to our ability to exercise national 

leadership on a wide variety of matters, including export controls, 


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and most likely to contribute to the peace and security of our country over the long-term. 

On a professional level, I have sought to embody the same high 

standards in my work as a U.S. government official. And, I can personally attest, that in my dealings with senior officials from allied 

and partner governments throughout the world, it was their personal trust and confidence in my judgment, integrity, and leadership that secured favorable outcomes for our country, even from 

those governments which had sharp disagreements with certain of 

our policies. 


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