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S. HRG. 111–238 

METAL THEFT: PUBLIC HAZARD, LAW 

ENFORCEMENT CHALLENGE 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND DRUGS 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY 

UNITED STATES SENATE 

ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

JULY 22, 2009 

Serial No. J–111–38 

Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 

( 

(II) 

PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman 

HERB KOHL, Wisconsin 

DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California 

RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island 

AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota 

EDWARD E. KAUFMAN, Delaware 

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania 

AL FRANKEN, Minnesota 

JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa 

JON KYL, Arizona 

LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina 

JOHN CORNYN, Texas 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

BRUCE A. COHEN, Chief Counsel and Staff Director 

MATT MINER, Republican Chief Counsel 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND DRUGS

ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman 

HERB KOHL, Wisconsin 

DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California 

RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin 

CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York 

RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois 

BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland 

AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota 

EDWARD E. KAUFMAN, Delaware 

LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina 

ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah 

CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa 

JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama 

TOM COBURN, Oklahoma 

HANIBAL KEMERER, Democratic Chief Counsel 

WALT KUHN, Republican Chief Counsel 

(III) 

C O N T E N T S 

STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS 

Page 

Hatch, Hon. Orrin G., a U.S. Senator from the State of Utah ............................ 4 

Klobuchar, Hon. Amy, a U.S. Senator from the State of Minnesota ................... 1 

WITNESSES 

Coffey, Frank, Director, Critical Infrastructure, Qwest Communications, Denver, Colorado ......................................................................................................... 9 

Dohman, Mona, Chief of Police, City of Maple Grove, Minnesota ....................... 6 

Kennard, Aaron D., Executive Director, National Sheriffs’ Association, Alexandria, Virginia .................................................................................................... 10 

Lewon, Mark, vice President for Operations, Utah Metal Works, Salt Lake 

City, Utah, on behalf of Utah Metal Works and the Institute of Scrap 

Recycling Industries, Inc. .................................................................................... 14 

Sparby, David M., President and Chief Executive Officer, Northern States 

Power-Minnesota, on behalf of Xcel Energy and Edison Electric Institute, 

Minneapolis, Minnesota ....................................................................................... 13 

SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD 

Coalition Against Copper Theft, Washington, DC., statement ............................ 24 

Coffey, Frank, Director, Critical Infrastructure, Qwest Communications, Denver, Colorado, statement ...................................................................................... 26 

Dohman, Mona, Chief of Police, City of Maple Grove, Minnesota, statement ... 35 

Kennard, Aaron D., Executive Director, National Sheriffs’ Association, Alexandria, Virginia, statement ................................................................................. 38 

Lewon, Mark, vice President for Operations, Utah Metal Works, Salt Lake 

City, Utah, on behalf of Utah Metal Works and the Institute of Scrap 

Recycling Industries, Inc., statement ................................................................. 44 

Poehling, Joe, Chairman, First Supply LLC, and President, American Supply 

Association, Washington, DC., statement .......................................................... 54 

Sparby, David M., President and Chief Executive Officer, Northern States 

Power-Minnesota, on behalf of Xcel Energy and Edison Electric Institute, 

Minneapolis, Minnesota, statement .................................................................... 56 

(1) 

METAL THEFT: PUBLIC HAZARD, LAW 

ENFORCEMENT CHALLENGE 

WEDNESDAY, JULY 22, 2009 

U.S. SENATE, SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND DRUGS, COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, Washington, D.C. 

The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:34 p.m., in room 

SD–226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Amy Klobuchar, presiding. 

Present: Senators Klobuchar and Hatch. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. AMY KLOBUCHAR, A U.S. 

SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. All right. We are going to call this hearing 

to order. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for being here. 

Today’s hearing will examine the problem of metal theft in our 

country, the public hazards that this crime creates, and the challenges facing law enforcement as they attempt to combat this 

crime. 

I am pleased to be here with my colleague Senator Hatch, and 

I want to thank Senator Specter, who chairs the Crime and Drug 

Subcommittee, for allowing me to chair this Subcommittee hearing 

today. 

I also want to thank—there are a number of Minnesotans here 

that you will hear from. I think someone even brought their family, 

I heard, so we are making this into a family affair. But I want to 

thank them for coming as well. 

I am going to let Senator Hatch start with opening remarks, and 

then I have a few myself. 

Senator Hatch. 

Senator HATCH. You go ahead, Madam Chair. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. OK, Senator Hatch. I always defer to the 

senior Senator here. 

Today we have a hearing with three goals: The first is to review 

the scale and scope of the metal theft problem as a criminal problem; we want to assess the threat that it poses to public safety and 

our critical infrastructure; and we want to consider possible legislative solutions to the problem and hear new recommendations and 

suggestions, especially from the law enforcement community. 

Over the past decade, the price of so-called secondary metals, especially copper, has risen dramatically. Between July 1999 and 

July 2008, the price of copper increased five-fold, and some began 

calling copper ‘‘the red gold.’’ The price increases were largely due 

2 

to increased global demand, especially from China and India, combined with speculation that demand would grow. 

As a result, ever enterprising thieves discovered a new opportunity for crime. They would steal copper and, through a process 

that might be called ‘‘criminal alchemy,’’ converted it into instant 

cash by reselling to scrap metal dealers who were hungry to meet 

the market demand for copper. Some of these thieves are drug addicts desperate to feed their addiction, but some are much more sophisticated and operate in organized groups. 

As a prosecutor, I learned never to underestimate the ingenuity 

and adaptability of these criminals. Copper thieves have targeted 

construction sites, electrical substations, and transformers, power 

and phone lines, warehouses, retail stores like Home Depot, and 

vacant houses and buildings. 

Although copper is often the metal of choice, aluminum siding, 

stainless steel sinks, and even catalytic converters on cars have 

also become common targets. Copper prices have declined somewhat in the past year due to the economy, but they are still 3 times 

higher than a decade ago. And having discovered an easy opportunity, copper thieves are unlikely to just go away, especially when 

the long-range outlook is for metal prices to rise as the world economy rebounds. 

Copper theft knows no borders or boundaries. It happens in cities 

and suburbs and in rural areas. It happens across county, State, 

and even national lines. The common denominator is the threat 

that it poses to public safety and to our infrastructure. 

In some instances, the theft of copper pipes has led to house fires 

and explosions. This, in fact, has happened several times in Minneapolis in recent years. Last September, I stood on a vacant lot 

on a street corner in Minneapolis where only days earlier there had 

been a four-plex. It was not there anymore because it had blown 

up, literally. Someone had stolen the copper pipes, causing a natural gas leak. Fortunately, nobody was in the building at the time 

that it blew up. 

Two years ago, in Ohio, thieves removed 300 feet of copper wire 

from a Federal Aviation Administration tower which threatened to 

interrupt communications between in-flight aircraft and air traffic 

controllers. 

Last year, in Jackson, Mississippi, five emergency warning sirens 

were unable to warn residents of an approaching tornado because 

thieves had stripped the sirens of the copper wiring. 

As with many property crimes, a perpetrator can sometimes be 

an insider. For example, just a few months ago, a Minnesota man 

was charged with stealing more than $300,000 worth of copper 

wire from his employer, Xcel Energy. Over the course of 3 years, 

this truck driver would secretly take copper wire from a warehouse 

in Maple Grove—where Chief Dohman is the police chief—a Minneapolis suburb, and then sell it to a recycling company in Grand 

Rapids, about 3 hours north of the Twin Cities. 

There are stories like these from all over the country. Last year, 

the FBI prepared an intelligence assessment on copper theft and 

the threat to critical infrastructure. It concluded that copper 

thieves are threatening U.S. critical infrastructure by targeting 

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roads, water wells, construction sites, and vacant homes for lucrative profits. The FBI further concluded that the theft of copper 

from these targets disrupts the flow of electricity, telecommunications, transportation, water supply, heating, and security and 

emergency service, and presents a risk to both public safety and 

national security. 

The Electrical Safety Foundation International conducted a survey last year of power utilities. The utilities reported that during 

the previous 12-month period, more than 50,000 copper thefts had 

occurred. In addition to the tens of millions of dollars in lost property, the utilities reported that copper thefts caused power outages 

totaling more than 450,000 minutes. The incidences, according to 

this report, also resulted in 52 injuries and 35 deaths nationwide. 

Industry officials have taken various countermeasures to address 

the growing metal theft problem. These include security systems on 

perimeter fences, clearing foliage away from fences, increasing security lighting, and installing video. 

In recent years, a number of States have also taken action, passing legislation to impose tougher penalties and to regulate the 

scrap metal industry with increased recordkeeping and other requirements. My own State of Minnesota has passed one of the 

strictest laws in the country, calling on scrap metal dealers—many 

of whom we know are very good business people simply doing their 

jobs. But we have called on them to register with the State, to 

video-record all purchase transactions, and to pay sellers by check 

rather than by cash. 

I commend these State efforts. However, the reality is that copper theft is a national problem and, as such, we need to be thinking about national solutions. 

Senator Hatch and I have introduced a bill that would place 

modest but important recordkeeping requirements on metal dealers 

in order to deter copper thefts by making it more difficult for 

thieves to sell the stolen property. Among other things, this bill 

would require scrap metal dealers to keep records for 2 years of 

transactions involving wire or cables commonly used by communications and electrical utilities, as well as copper, aluminum, or 

other metal that is valuable for recycling or re-use as raw material. 

It would also require dealers to pay sellers by check for any transactions above $75. Finally, it would establish a Do Not Buy list 

that prohibits scrap metal dealers from purchasing certain types of 

material unless the seller can establish that the seller is the rightful owner. This includes things like metal marked with the name 

of a city or marked with a name logo or initials of a railroad, utility, or telephone company. These requirements are important both 

to deter metal thieves and to apprehend them. 

As I mentioned, the vast majority of scrap metal dealers are perfectly legitimate and law-abiding. We are glad that their association is here to testify. They do not want to buy stolen property or 

damage infrastructure in their communities. But given the scale of 

the problem, voluntary efforts just are not sufficient to deter or to 

prevent this crime. If they were, we would not be here today. 

To effectively attack the problem, we also need national, State, 

and local officials, law enforcement authorities, and industry to 

work together to assess the tools they need to more effectively comVerDate Nov 24 2008 11:54 Jan 27, 2010 Jkt 054558 PO 00000 Frm 00007 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\54558.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
4 

bat these crimes. Sometimes a theft may seem small and the owner 

does not report it as a crime, even though the individual theft may 

well be just the tip of a much larger criminal iceberg. Even when 

copper thefts are reported, they may not get adequate attention 

from law enforcement agencies because they are focused on violent 

crimes. When someone is actually caught selling what is suspected 

to be stolen copper, it can be very difficult to work up a prosecutable case unless the source of the metal can be determined. 

Finally, another complicating factor is that thieves do not care 

about jurisdictional boundaries so they cross city, county, and State 

lines with impunity to do their business of stealing and selling. 

In this situation, it is very difficult for individual law enforcement agencies to get a handle on a pattern of thieves. It is a situation that cries out for multijurisdictional law enforcement efforts. 

These challenges underscore the need for law enforcement to have 

a central role in preventing, investigating, and prosecuting these 

crimes. After all, metal theft is a crime. It is a crime that has been 

on the rise and promises to get even bigger. And it has become a 

serious nationwide problem with potentially dangerous and farreaching consequences. 

If copper has become the red gold, then copper theft has turned 

into a kind of ‘‘red gold rush.’’ So it is essential that law enforcement is able to keep up and not get left behind in the dust. An effective strategy to combat these crimes will require cooperation 

that involves scrap and recycling dealers, affected industries like 

telecom, railroads, and electric utilities, and local law enforcement, 

State law enforcement, and Federal law enforcement. 

I look forward to hearing from our witnesses and working together to develop and implement a nationwide metal theft prevention strategy. Thank you very much, and I will turn this over to 

Senator Hatch. 

STATEMENT OF HON. ORRIN G. HATCH, A U.S. SENATOR FROM 

THE STATE OF UTAH 

Senator HATCH. Well, thank you, Chairperson Klobuchar. I have 

enjoyed working with you on this legislation designed to combat 

metal theft. I applaud your leadership and tenacity on this important issue, because it is important. And, of course, today’s hearing 

is an excellent opportunity to hear from the experts on the growing 

problem of metal theft in our country. 

Unfortunately, over the past couple of years, metal has become 

a favorite target for crooks. It is truly a perfect storm for people 

looking to make a quick buck, primarily for drugs, because it is 

easy to steal and resell these materials. The scrap metal industry 

is no longer confined to aluminum cans. It has become a major industry, with all types of metal being bought and sold. 

On the surface, stealing metal appears to be a relatively small 

theft. However, metal thieves compromise U.S. critical infrastructure by targeting electrical substations, cellular towers, light fixtures, telephone land lines, railroads, water wells, construction 

sites, and even vacant homes. 

We simply must ensure that our Nation’s businesses, homes, and 

infrastructure are no longer viewed as a treasure trove by desVerDate Nov 24 2008 11:54 Jan 27, 2010 Jkt 054558 PO 00000 Frm 00008 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\54558.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
5 

perate metal thieves who destroy property while taking the opportunity to turn stolen property into a profit. 

Metal theft is costing Americans millions of dollars in theft, damages, and threats to safety. In Utah, metal theft is a major problem 

that is growing without a foreseeable end in sight. We have experienced a wide variety of thefts, including stolen copper wire, catalytic converters, manhole covers, and other metals. Last fall, a 

baseball field in Kearns, Utah, was the target. A thief cut into several light poles, yanked the copper wire down, sliced it, and hauled 

it off. This senseless act resulted in costly infrastructure damage, 

leaving taxpayers to foot the bill for repairs. Furthermore, the 

city’s 20-team baseball league could not continue to play night 

games on the field without lights. 

Earlier this year, thieves stolen copper wiring from the Vista 

Park light poles in Taylorsville, Utah. Salt Lake County cannot afford the $10,000 to rewire the complex. Fortunately, some very 

generous donors rewired and reconnected the complex so that the 

local Little League team could enjoy playing ball under the night 

lights. 

One of Utah’s city park operators informs me that, in addition 

to light fixtures, metal thieves are damaging restroom pipe chases 

and stealing aluminum bleachers at local basketball fields—or 

baseball fields, I guess it would be. He believes the ease with which 

stolen metals can be exchanged for cash is the main reason for this 

crime wave. 

Now, several months ago, in Ogden, Utah, thieves stole a 1,700- 

pound load of copper from the metal yard, apparently using the 

metal company’s own Caterpillar excavator to load it onto their 

truck. I am aware of another occurrence in Utah County, where a 

man was arrested for repeatedly stealing copper wiring nearly 

every week from a construction company. The thief would load his 

truck with the wire, then sell it for anywhere between $800 and 

$1,200. The actual value of the wire, however, was more than 

$18,000. 

Unfortunately, the list is long for metal thefts in my home State. 

We can and must do more to eliminate the incentives that fuel 

such blatant criminal activity, and I believe the proposed legislation goes a long way in accomplishing this goal, but we look forward to hearing your testimonies today to just see what we can do 

to improve this or change it. 

I commend them for their efforts and hope that police, prosecutors, and members of the metal recycling industry continue to communicate and work together to combat metal theft. However, I do 

believe more has to be done. Some argue that there is no need for 

this legislation because metal is currently being traded at low 

prices. I disagree. As we know, the market shifts and prices will 

eventually increase as demand surges, and law enforcement officials say that they expect thefts will start up again as prices rebound. 

Many States already have metal theft laws in place. Utah is one 

of them. In fact, metal theft was such a problem in my home State 

that laws were passed imposing a strict requirement on scrap 

metal dealers for buying secondary metal. Yet on the Federal level, 

we need a uniform standard to fill the gaps where State law falls 

6 

short or where there is no applicable State law. This is important 

because States without metal theft laws become havens for trafficking in stolen metal. 

So I look forward to our hearing today, and I look forward to listening to our witness panel on ways we can protect our country 

and, of course, perfect our legislation. Particularly, what other 

steps are needed to help law enforcement combat the pervasive 

spread of metal theft? And how should we change this bill to make 

it better and more workable? As you can see, both Senator Klobuchar and I take this issue very seriously. 

So I want to thank you, Madam Chairperson, and I am just 

grateful that you are willing to lead out on this issue. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you very much, Senator Hatch, and 

it is always good to do things on a bipartisan basis around here, 

and I am glad we are doing that. 

I just wanted to quickly introduce the witnesses, and then they 

can each speak up to 5 minutes, and then we will have questions. 

First is Chief Mona Dohman, whom I worked with extensively 

when I was the county attorney for Hennepin County. She is here 

today in two capacities: first, as Chief of Police for Maple Grove, 

Minnesota, which is a sizable suburb in the Twin Cities area, and 

also as President of the Minnesota Chiefs Association. 

Second, Frank Coffey. Frank serves as Director of Critical Infrastructure for Qwest Communications. Before joining Qwest, Mr. 

Coffey worked for the FBI for over 25 years. 

We also have Sheriff Aaron Kennard, who is the Executive Director of the National Sheriffs’ Association, and is the former sheriff 

of Salt Lake City, Utah. 

David Sparby, who is the President and Chief Executive Officer 

of the Northern States Power Company of Minnesota, which is an 

Xcel Energy company. Mr. Sparby joins us today both on behalf of 

Xcel as well as on behalf of Edison Electric Institute, the trade son 

of U.S. shareholder-owned electric companies. 

Finally, Mark Lewon, Vice President for Operations of Utah 

Metal Works in Salt Lake City, a family-owned business started by 

Mr. Lewon’s grandfather in 1955. 

Thank you all for joining us, and we will start with Chief 

Dohman. 

STATEMENT OF MONA DOHMAN, CHIEF OF POLICE, CITY OF 

MAPLE GROVE, MINNESOTA 

Chief DOHMAN. Good afternoon, Senator Klobuchar and Senator 

Hatch. I am honored and pleased to be here this afternoon to testify on the need for Federal legislation to fight the continued growing problem of metal theft in Minnesota and across the country. My 

name is Mona Dohman, and I am the Chief of Police for the city 

of Maple Grove in Maple Grove, Minnesota. We are a third-ring 

suburb of Minneapolis with approximately 62,000 residents. I am 

also the President of the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association, a 

State association with a mission to enhance the professionalism of 

policing throughout our State. I am here to speak on behalf of 

metal theft crimes in our and across the State. In particular, my 

testimony is from a local law enforcement perspective. 

7 

In each of my roles, I have seen firsthand and read about the 

negative and devastating impact that metal theft has had in our 

community and in the infrastructure around the country. I would 

like to share just a few examples of the results of metal thefts in 

our communities. 

In Minnesota, we are, as Senator Klobuchar alluded to, fortunate 

that we have tighter restrictions and regulations on scrap metal 

dealers. However, metal thieves do not have to travel very far to 

cross State borders in order to sell stolen metals and in order to 

get quick cash to support the habits that they have, whether it be 

drug addiction or perhaps a gambling addiction. 

The Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association supported tougher 

laws and restrictions on scrap metal dealers and were instrumental 

in helping pass laws that provided for the same. We support similar Federal legislation. 

In 2008, again, as alluded to by Senator Klobuchar, the Grand 

Rapids, Minnesota, Police Department investigated a case in which 

a 46-year-old truck driver was stealing copper from the Xcel Energy Center in Maple Grove. The suspect in the case stole copper 

and then sold it to a metal recycler in Grand Rapids over a period 

of 3 years. The suspect’s full-time job was to deliver copper wire to 

various sites around the State. He was able to steal the copper wiring in smaller amounts and obtain quick cash at a metal recycling 

center. He had developed a relationship with the owner of the business. It is suspected that the man was supporting a gambling addiction, and over the course of a 3-year period, he stole over 

$300,000 in copper wiring. Because the thefts occurred in smaller 

amounts and over a long period of time, they went unreported and 

unnoticed for a while. 

In June of 2008, detectives at my police department investigated 

a report of over $10,000 worth of stolen copper wiring and various 

metal pieces from a hotel construction site. In further investigating 

our case, we were able to identify a suspect who was described by 

acquaintances as being ‘‘hard core,’’ ‘‘big into copper theft,’’ and ‘‘big 

into meth use.’’ We were informed that he never worked alone and 

would pay others to make his copper deposits for him. He had essentially developed an organized crime ring on a smaller level in 

the State. We know that he committed his crimes across our State 

from as far north as Two Harbors, Minnesota, in the far northeastern corner of our State, all the way south to Farmington, Minnesota, in the southern part of our State. 

In September 2008, a vacant North Minneapolis four-plex exploded after thieves took copper pipes out of the home. The threat 

to public safety in cases like this is of great concern. 

We know that in Jackson, Mississippi, five tornado warning sirens did not warn residents of an approaching tornado because of 

copper thieves. They had stripped the sirens of copper wiring. 

And in March of 2008, nearly 4,000 residents in Polk County, 

Florida, were left without power after copper wire was stripped 

from an active transformer at an electric company. And we know 

from FBI reports that farmers in Pinal County, Arizona, were the 

victims of copper thefts from their irrigation systems, resulting in 

the loss of crops and high-dollar cost to replace the equipment. The 

8 

infrastructure loss in that case and in that county due to copper 

thefts was estimated at $10 million. 

We know that there is typically a common thread in most cases 

of scrap metal. We believe that drug addiction, gambling addictions, or the like are the common themes. Trading in scrap metals 

for quick cash at metal recycling centers is the reason that this is 

a lucrative business. 

Investigation and prosecution can be very time-consuming due to 

the lack of evidence and very few leads, thus absorbing sometimes 

scarce resources of officer time and money from the jurisdictions responsible for investigating the case. 

We know from our case in Maple Grove and many cases around 

the country that the thieves do not work alone. Identifying all parties involved can be very difficult. As recently as April of 2008, we 

know that highly organized theft rings specializing in copper theft 

from houses and warehouses were operating in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It is reported that these rings or gangs hit several homes 

per day, yielding more than $20,000 per month. Their target was 

foreclosed homes. As recent as 2007, the St. Paul, Minnesota, Police Department reported that 60 percent of all burglaries were for 

scrap metal. Burglaries overall are down currently in St. Paul, but 

it is reported that almost 40 percent of their burglaries in 2008 

were from scrap metal. 

I have shared some of the larger-dollar-loss cases from around 

the country. However, I believe it is important to mention that 

many times these cases can be difficult to investigate and ultimately prosecute because the thefts can occur in small amounts, 

thus victims either do not realize their victimization or because of 

such small amounts they do not feel it is necessary or important 

to file a police report. And it is difficult to prosecute a case when 

there is no victim. 

If we pass laws on the Federal level to help, then we are recognizing the negative impact that these crimes have in our communities and the infrastructures within. These crimes are frequently 

viewed as low priority when we think about how they measure up 

to crimes such as murder, robbery, and rape, for example. I can tell 

you, though, in over 27 years in law enforcement I have seen that 

these sorts of crimes all overlap. Certain crime can be and is a 

gateway to farther reaching and more severe crime, having devastating impacts within our communities. 

We know that once the thieves steal the metal, it does them no 

good if they cannot sell it. The Klobuchar-Hatch bill puts recordkeeping requirements on scrap yards and metal dealers, and I believe it is an effective step in deterring this crime. 

I believe that if drug users, gang members, and/or the middleman must give certain basic information like a driver’s license or 

a Government ID to a scrap metal dealer, it will deter these criminals from this avenue of access to quick cash. Trading in scrap 

metal for quick cash is the reason these criminals commit this 

crime. If we take away their access by regulating the process in 

which they cash in on their crime and by regulating the amount 

of cash they get on the spot, their crime becomes less attractive 

and certainly less lucrative. 

9 

I know and we know that the recordkeeping and retention requirements in the Klobuchar-Hatch bill will not end all metal theft 

across the country, but it is a positive, proactive step to helping law 

enforcement as we strive to reduce victimization across the board 

in our communities. 

In conclusion, we in Minnesota have been fortunate with tough 

State laws and regulations to address metal theft, and we have 

witnessed firsthand how they have assisted law enforcement in investigating and prosecuting metal theft crimes. However, to effectively stem metal theft across the country, Congress must act to 

ensure that these crimes do not find their way into other States. 

Minimum Federal requirements as identified in the proposed bill 

must be implemented to assist in our law enforcement efforts. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Chief Dohman appears as a submission for the record.] 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you. 

Mr. Coffey. 

STATEMENT OF FRANK COFFEY, DIRECTOR, CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, QWEST COMMUNICATIONS, DENVER, COLORADO 

Mr. COFFEY. Senator Klobuchar, Senator Hatch, and members of 

the Subcommittee, my name is Frank Coffey, and I am the Director 

of Critical Infrastructure for Qwest Communications. I appreciate 

the opportunity to talk about the issue of metal theft and to share 

Qwest’s views on your proposed legislation addressing the problem. 

Qwest provides voice, data, Internet, and video services nationwide and globally. We provide local telephone service and 

broadband service in 14 Midwestern and Western States. Like 

other companies, Qwest has been plagued by the theft of metal, 

particularly copper, during the past few years. In some cases, 

thieves literally cut down or dig up our telephone lines and then 

attempt to sell the copper. 

A 2007 Department of Energy study identified several factors 

contributing to the increase in copper theft, including historically 

high prices for copper, ease of theft, small likelihood of being arrested, and relatively low penalties for the few who are convicted. 

The impact of stolen cable to Qwest and its customers goes well 

beyond just the cost of the stolen cable. Most importantly, community safety is compromised when deployed lines are cut, causing 

outages that impact a citizen’s ability to contact emergency services, as well as to make other phone calls and use the Internet. 

While the copper theft problem occurs throughout the Qwest region and the country, I thought it would be useful to provide you 

with a few specific examples of the problem and its consequences. 

In May 2008, thieves in Duluth, Minnesota, stole 1,400 feet of 

aerial copper cable, disrupting service to many customers. Service 

was restored, and 10 days later, thieves stole the same span of 

cable, disrupting service for a second time to the same customers. 

Another example: In January 2008, cable thieves in Longview, 

Washington, cut and stole aerial cable, impacting emergency 911 

and other services in the area. The thieves transported the stolen 

copper cable to Oregon to sell to secondary metal recycling agents, 

10 

as Oregon laws regulating metal recyclers at that time were weak 

or non-existent. Notably, the thieves burned the insulation off of 

the cable before selling it. Despite the suspicious circumstances, 

neither federal nor state law prohibited the metal recyclers from 

purchasing the significant quantities of cable with the insulation 

burned off or required them to report the transactions. 

Also, in Washington, in two instances, thieves cut fiber-optic 

cable, believing it was copper cable, which disrupted service to approximately 20,000 customers for several hours each time. 

A final example. In December 2007, Qwest experienced several 

thefts of copper cable from one of our facilities in Prescott, Arizona, 

and through investigation discovered that three employees of a 

road construction crew were removing and selling Qwest cable that 

was inactive but left in place for future use. The thieves were prosecuted in state court for stealing 23,000 pounds of Qwest copper 

cable. 

In light of such incidents, Qwest has developed a copper theft 

strategy which includes working with law enforcement agencies, 

employing security firms to conduct patrols in high-theft areas, developing relationships with metal recyclers, participating in law enforcement metal theft task forces, and supporting enhanced metal 

theft legislation. 

Many states, including Minnesota and Utah, have enacted laws 

addressing the metal theft problem, but not all states have such 

laws. Federal legislation would provide uniform requirements applicable in all states. 

Law enforcement intervention has been helpful as we have 

sought to address this problem. Unfortunately, many local law enforcement agencies do not have the resources available to adequately investigate these thefts. Qwest believes the proposed legislation will deter thieves by diminishing the marketability of stolen 

copper and helping to track down and prosecute sellers of stolen 

metal. 

To strengthen the law further and to serve as an additional deterrent, we recommend an additional provision requiring that 

check payments be mailed to the seller, which would further limit 

the ability of thieves to provide fictitious data to the metal recycler. 

We also recommend the addition of criminal penalties for those attempting to sell stolen metal to a metal recycler. 

Congress has an important opportunity to deter the theft of 

metal and reduce its impact on businesses across the nation and 

the communities they serve. 

Again, thank you for your attention to this problem and for the 

opportunity to testify today on this important issue. I look forward 

to your questions. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Coffey appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you very much. 

Sheriff Kennard. 

STATEMENT OF AARON D. KENNARD, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, 

NATIONAL SHERIFFS’ ASSOCIATION, ALEXANDRIA, VIRGINIA 

Mr. KENNARD. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Senator 

Klobuchar and Senator. My name is Sheriff Aaron Kennard, and 

11 

I currently serve as the Executive Director of the National Sheriffs’ 

Association. Immediately prior to joining NSA, I served as the 

Sheriff of Salt Lake County for 16 years and as a police officer for 

Salt Lake City Police Department for 20 years, including as interim Police Chief of the Salt Lake International Airport in the 

mid–1980’s when I experienced a major metal theft. 

I am pleased to have this opportunity to appear before you today 

to highlight the need for Federal legislation to combat metal theft, 

namely, S. 418, the Secondary Metal Theft Prevention Act of 2009, 

and to provide a law enforcement perspective on this costly and 

hazardous crime. 

Metal theft has become a serious public safety issue not just in 

Utah but across the country as thieves become more and more 

reckless in the materials they go after. This costly crime has 

plagued both urban and rural communities in recent years. Metal 

thieves compromise U.S. critical infrastructure by targeting electrical substations, cellular towers, telephone land lines, railroads, 

water wells, construction sites, and vacant homes—all for quick 

cash. 

Throughout the country, law enforcement officers have witnessed 

thefts in which culprits steal metal, everything from old grave 

markers to parts of air conditioning units or vehicles, to resell as 

scrap. Furthermore, these crimes and criminals are oftentimes associated with other violent crimes, illicit activities and drug abuse. 

I have experienced firsthand that, when it comes to metal theft, 

officers have little to go on unless they catch a metal thief in the 

act. We strongly believe that the requirements of this act would 

greatly enhance law enforcement’s ability to investigate and prosecute metal theft by creating a paper trail. 

The requirement of checks and recordkeeping is a valuable tool 

for law enforcement in our investigations of metal theft as it helps 

close the loop in enabling criminals to ‘‘take the money and run’’ 

without creating a paper trail, thereby making it extremely difficult for law enforcement to identify and apprehend those responsible for the theft. 

A simple thumbprint on a check can help investigators crack a 

case identifying a suspect with a prior record. And the mere fact 

that those reporting requirements exist we believe would prove to 

be a valuable anti-metal theft tool. 

In addition to the requirements provided in Senate 418, we 

would like to make additional recommendations for the Committee 

for its consideration that we believe would be of tremendous assistance to law enforcement in combating metal theft. These recommendations include the following: 

A law enforcement officer would have the ability to routinely inspect all records related to metal sale transactions without a court 

order; 

Require anyone convicted of metal theft to pay restitution for the 

materials stolen and for any collateral damage caused by the theft; 

Metal dealers who break the law face suspension or revocation 

of their business license and increased fines and jail time; 

Require metal dealers to obtain a thumbprint, photo, or a video 

and/or a copy of a valid Government-issued ID of the seller; 

12 

And impose increased criminal penalty for metal theft relative to 

the amount of damage rather than the amount stolen. 

With only some States with metal theft laws, sellers are opting 

for neighboring States so they can get paid immediately. Similarly, 

the thieves are going out of State, too, which undermines the intent 

of the law in the States that have responded by enacting a strong 

State metal theft law. A Federal law is needed to prevent criminals 

from stealing metal and transporting it for sale in nearby States. 

Moreover, scrap metal prices will climb again 1 day, and metal 

theft will rise with them unless Congress acts. 

Thieves have caught on: There is metal everywhere and much of 

it is, understandably, unguarded. Copper cable thefts can cause 

electric and telephone service outages for entire neighborhoods, impacting hundreds or even thousands of homes. Power outages can 

knock out traffic signals, posing a serious traffic safety threat. And 

in the event of an emergency, affected telephone customers are not 

able to call 911 for assistance. 

As you can imagine, stealing telephone and electric service cables 

presents an incredibly hazardous situation for residents and our 

communities. This issue goes beyond being just a simple property 

crime because of the impact it has on our neighborhoods, businesses, and homeland security. Not only are these crimes destroying property and causing millions of dollars in damages, they are 

endangering lives. 

Moreover, metal theft has become a serious crime that is often 

related to other crimes like illicit drug activity, especially methamphetamine with addicts who are looking for fast cash to maintain their drug addictions. Of course, not all meth addicts are 

metal thieves and, likewise, not all metal thefts track back to meth 

addicts, but we believe that there is a distinct connection. 

We would also like to note that many scrap metal businesses already follow the rules and cooperate with law enforcement, especially in Utah, watching for unusual loads of metal brought in by 

customers. We emphasize that these businesses serve a legitimate 

need in the marketplace, and we do not intend to suggest that all 

scrap metal businesses engage in fraudulent transactions. Yet it 

has become apparent that the absence of regulation created an atmosphere conducive to facilitating such unlawful activity, which is 

extremely difficult for us in law enforcement to detect and control. 

Accordingly, we believe that Federal law will help get other 

States and companies that might not be where they need to be 

keep better track of who brings in metal and what they are offering 

as scrap. We simply cannot continue to accept ‘‘business as usual’’ 

given the seriousness of metal theft and its impact on public safety. 

With cooperation and assistance from businesses, our citizens, and 

law enforcement, we can be proactive in preventing a potential 

public safety disaster in our communities. 

This legislation gives valuable tools to law enforcement to combat 

metal theft, a crime that is not only costly to the taxpayers but also 

seriously compromises public safety, homeland security, and endangers people’s lives. The Secondary Metal Theft Prevention Act of 

2009 is a necessary step forward in keeping our neighborhoods safe 

across the Nation. 

13 

I would like to thank both of the Senators for their leadership 

on this issue and for the opportunity to present our views before 

the Subcommittee today. Thank you very much. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Kennard appears as a submission for the record.] 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you. 

Mr. Sparby. 

STATEMENT OF DAVID M. SPARBY, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, NORTHERN STATES POWER-MINNESOTA, 

ON BEHALF OF XCEL ENERGY AND EDISON ELECTRIC INSTITUTE, MINNEAPOLIS, MINNESOTA 

Mr. SPARBY. Thank you, Senators Klobuchar and Hatch. We appreciate the opportunity to testify today on this important issue— 

important to both preserving electric reliability as well as public 

safety. The failure to address this issue would leave a significant 

gap in our effort to protect our infrastructure. I am Dave Sparby, 

President and Chief Executive Officer of Northern States Power. 

We serve about 1.5 million electric customers in Minnesota and 

North and South Dakota. Xcel Energy, our parent company, has 

operations in eight Midwest and Western States. I am also appearing today on behalf of Edison Electric Institute. 

Madam Chair, as you noted, over the last several years metal 

theft from electric utilities has been on the rise. And although the 

cost to the utilities of the loss of the metal has been significant, it 

is not the most important reason to pass some of the legislation 

being proposed. While the cost of the metal is high, the threat to 

public safety, the impact on our infrastructure, the cost of replacing 

the damaged property is hundreds of times greater than the metal 

lost. In Minneapolis, for example, thieves broke into an underground feeder vault near the university. After cutting through an 

energized feeder, they caused an explosion in the vault. Both men 

were severely burned. The feeder line went to the university substation, causing the substation to fail and creating an outage at the 

University of Minnesota Hospital where eventually patients needed 

to be evacuated. Now, although I do not know the total cost of the 

metal taken, the cumulative damage to the hospital, the patients, 

the substation, the vault, and the victims is many times that 

amount. 

In a similar case, another copper thief broke into an underground 

feeder vault with a portable metal saw. When he began to cut into 

the feeder, a similar explosion resulted, creating a systemwide failure. This outage caused the city of Minneapolis’ water treatment 

plant, among other entities, to shut down for several minutes until 

another alternative power source was identified. Once again, the 

impact on the community was far disproportionate to the metal 

taken. 

Now, the current economy, the price of the metal, and the lack 

of regulation have led to an increase in metal theft in other areas 

as well. As you noted, Madam Chair, vacant homes in the Midwest 

have been condemned and even destroyed as a result of the copper 

wiring and natural gas pipes being cut out. Recently, our fire chief 

testified that citizens as well as firefighters are constantly endangered by the conditions of these houses. 

14 

Now, although I have talked about events in Minneapolis as well 

as the Midwest this afternoon, the consequences of metal theft 

have been experienced by other utilities across the country. Federal 

legislation is needed. The theft of metals for cash is a national 

issue, and it is not confined to an individual utility or State. State 

laws vary significantly. Some of the States we serve have laws, 

while others do not. The only effective way to address this nationwide problem is through Federal legislation. 

Now, Senate bill 418 would make it possible for law enforcement 

officials to effectively investigate incidences of metal theft. Today, 

many recyclers do not have to keep meaningful records in some of 

the States we serve. This legislation would also allow State attorneys general to bring actions to enforce this act, another significant 

advantage. We believe the elevation of this crime to a Federal level 

would also heighten its significance to local law enforcement. 

Finally, we understand that there may be additional approaches 

to addressing this problem, including language that would increase 

penalties, establish a nationwide data base, and require the mandatory reporting of these crimes. Regardless of how many of these 

additional approaches are taken, the objective should be to provide 

law enforcement with as many tools as possible to combat this 

crime. Let us not make the effort to protect our infrastructure from 

cyber attacks and from terrorism and fail to remove the incentive 

to steal a few feet of copper that will do the same amount of harm. 

Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Sparby appears as a submission 

for the record] 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you very much. 

Mr. Lewon. 

STATEMENT OF MARK LEWON, VICE PRESIDENT FOR OPERATIONS, UTAH METAL WORKS, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH, ON 

BEHALF OF UTAH METAL WORKS AND THE INSTITUTE OF 

SCRAP RECYCLING INDUSTRIES, INC. 

Mr. LEWON. Thank you and good afternoon, Senator Klobuchar, 

Senator Hatch. My name is Mark Lewon, and I am the Vice President of Utah Metal Works in Salt Lake City. We specialize in processing non-ferrous cable, wire, and other materials. Thank you for 

the opportunity to testify today. I am representing the more than 

1,500 member companies of the Institute of Scrap Recycling Industries, or ISRI, the trade association that represents processors, brokers, and consumers of recyclable paper, glass, plastic, metals, rubber, textiles, and electronics. Last year, our industry shipped more 

than $86 billion worth of scrap commodities. 

I would like to start by sharing with you a true story of an exchange that happened just 2 weeks ago at a scrap yard in the Midwest. It helps illustrate the effort our industry is making to address the problem of metals theft and the critical role that communications and cooperation play in the problem’s solution. 

A truck full of scrap entered the yard and proceeded to the scale. 

The load was weighed and inspected. Certain information was documented. When it was safe, the scale operator called the police. ‘‘I 

may have found some metal that has been reported stolen.’’ 

‘‘Why do you think it is stolen? ’’ asked the officer. 

15 

‘‘I saw something on ScrapTheftAlert.com that came in.’’ 

‘‘You are kidding,’’ said the officer. ‘‘You got this from a scrap 

theft alert? ’’ 

‘‘Right.’’ 

‘‘Can you identify the guy? ’’ 

‘‘I have his license plate number and a copy of his driver’s license.’’ 

‘‘Can you hold the material for me so I can take a look at it? ’’ 

‘‘We have already set it aside.’’ 

‘‘You have done my job for me. Thanks,’’ the officer responded. 

Senators, our system works. The ScrapTheftAlert.com system, 

developed by ISRI in 2006, alerts scrap yards and law enforcement 

in a 250-mile radius of a theft, listing the characteristics of the 

metal, providing photos, and more. The system is currently used by 

more than 700 law enforcement officers throughout the country. 

There is no charge for police and victims to access the system and 

report thefts. Law enforcement officers who use 

ScrapTheftAlert.com have only praise for it. 

But ISRI’s theft alert system is not the only thing the scrap industry is doing to fight metals theft. In 2006, ISRI developed recommended practices which guide our members on how to identify 

stolen property, document their purchases, validate a seller’s identity, install cameras in the scrap yard, and catch thieves. 

ISRI pioneered the use of local or regional collaborative coalitions 

of victims, law enforcement, prosecutors, and recyclers to help prevent metal theft and catch criminals. No technique works better. 

I work closely with the coalition in Salt Lake City and County. 

Crime is down, and we catch and prosecute metal thieves. ISRI has 

also established a coalition of stakeholder associations to share 

ideas and intelligence. 

ISRI members recognize their key role in addressing metal theft. 

There are no easy solutions, but our expertise has taught us that 

the best way to approach the crime of metal theft is through ongoing communication—between recycles, law enforcement, victims, 

and prosecutors. In fact, last year, ISRI hired a former metals theft 

detective to help coordinate our work with law enforcement nationwide. He now spends his time reaching out to law enforcement in 

communities throughout the country, discussing collaboration and 

techniques and tactics that work. 

Federal legislation to address metal theft must deal with prevention, including strong penalties for thieves. Senators, it is also important to note that metal theft will not cease simply by banning 

the customary use of cash. Thieves will just find an underground 

way to move their stolen metals. 

Much as we would like to believe it so, simply enacting a new 

law will not cause resource-strapped law enforcement agencies to 

suddenly make metal theft a priority. Nor will it cause prosecutors 

to go after the thieves. Nor will it stop thieves from crossing State 

lines, unless you include a preemption provision in a bill that takes 

away their incentive to do so. 

Senator Hatch, Senator Klobuchar, I ask you to work with me 

and my colleagues. Let us get into a room with law enforcement, 

including people like Fred Burmester, Salt Lake County’s Assistant 

16 

District Attorney, and others who have worked the front lines with 

us. And let us draft a bill that will work to solve this problem. 

We look forward to working with you to help stem this problem 

that is plaguing communities in Utah, in Minnesota, and throughout the country. Thank you. 

[The prepared statement of Mr. Lewon appears as a submission 

for the record.] 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you very much. 

Senator Hatch. 

Senator HATCH. Well, thank you, Madam Chairman. I appreciate 

the testimony of every one of you here today, and we will look forward to having your ideas to see if we can improve this bill. But 

I am very concerned about these matters. 

I have to leave, but I wanted to hear all your testimony, and any 

suggestions you have for us on this bill, we will pay attention to 

your testimony, but we would love to have any suggestions we can 

get. This is a serious problem throughout the country, and not all 

scrap dealers are as good as you are. And that is one of the problems, to be honest with you. 

This has been a very, very good panel, and I am very appreciative. We are in the middle of a bunch of things, and I have total 

confidence in Senator Klobuchar. She has added a great deal to the 

Judiciary Committee and I think a great deal to the U.S. Senate. 

So I am sure she is going to work you all over very, very well. 

[Laughter.] 

Senator HATCH. But if you will forgive me, I think I am going 

to have to go. Thank you all. I really appreciate your being here. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you very much, Senator Hatch. I appreciate it. 

All right. Well, thank you all for your testimony. It was very interesting. I actually had not heard some of those stories, especially 

yours, Mr. Sparby, of just how theft of just a little bit of copper can 

cause such a breakdown in some of our infrastructure. So I appreciated that. 

I guess I would start with you, Chief Dohman. We have talked 

about the bill that Senator Hatch and I have, and similar to some 

of the State laws that you see. Do you see a need to do this nationally and not just on a State-by-State basis? 

Chief DOHMAN. Thank you, Senator Klobuchar. I really do. I believe that we have enjoyed the—‘‘enjoyed’’ probably is not the best 

word, but we have benefited from the tougher restrictions on scrap 

metal dealers in the State of Minnesota. But as I testified to, we 

know that scrap metal thieves or the people that work for them can 

go to the next border, because many States do not have the tight 

regulations and restrictions that the State of Minnesota does. And 

so I think it highlights that it is a significant issue around the 

country, and not just in our State. And I do believe that it would 

be a deterrent if it was on the Federal level and that all States 

could use it in the event that they do not have a State law themselves. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you. 

Sheriff Kennard, would you agree with the same thing? 

Mr. KENNARD. Yes, I do indeed, and I also want to compliment 

Mr. Lewon for his comments, because we in law enforcement stand 

17 

ready to work with you and him, and I hope that you take advantage of us in the National Sheriffs’ Association. We represent all 

3,088 sheriffs in the country, and they are the chief law enforcement officers in each county representing the counties, and with 

the Major City Chiefs and Major County Sheriffs, you have got just 

about every law enforcement group in the country that you can be 

dealing with. So I very much so believe that it needs to go on a 

national level. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. How about the idea—I was struck by Mr. 

Sparby’s testimony and Mr. Coffey’s testimony of just some of the 

ramifications of this when it happens. How about the idea of some 

kind of increased criminal penalties for this kind of activity? 

Mr. KENNARD. Well, I spoke about that because most criminal 

penalties, especially dealing with property crimes, are dealt with 

around the value of the crime itself, the property stolen or the 

amount of money stolen. And if we take into consideration the 

amount of damage done on infrastructure, this could be just something that should really deter some people if they understand what 

is going on. 

But now, having said that, there are some of these criminals that 

are not going to understand anything in this. They are after the 

next quick fix, and it is going to take one or two hammers before 

they get the message. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Chief Dohman, the idea of the increased 

criminal penalties. 

Chief DOHMAN. You know, I believe that the increased criminal 

penalties for all people involved, I think one of the gentlemen testified here to penalties for not only the thief but also the seller, and 

I think that any increased penalties for anybody involved in this 

certainly would be a deterrent. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. All right. Very good. 

I think about when we have task forces and things how we could 

better improve working across State lines on these kinds of issues. 

Do you get help out there when you are trying to solve some of 

these cases? Which it sounds like your cases were specifically in 

Minnesota for the most part. 

Chief DOHMAN. Yes, our cases were specifically in Minnesota. I 

think that any legislation that can enhance the ability for law enforcement to be able to communicate with each other, to be able to 

not only collect records but retain information, and then to be able 

to share it, you know, many times data privacy issues prohibit us 

from being able to share across borders, across counties, across cities even. And so any legislation that can enhance the ability to be 

able to share that information. 

We are lucky enough in Minnesota to have the Minnesota Crime 

Alert Network, that we are able to post data and share it across— 

but not all agencies. As we know, if you go to rural Minnesota or 

rural areas in many States around the country, they do not have 

either the technology or the ability to access those pieces of information. So anything that would help all agencies, whether it is a 

sheriff’s office or whether it is a local police department, to be able 

to have the access to the information that is legally stored, the data 

stores, would benefit law enforcement. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you. 

18 

Mr. Lewon, I also appreciated your words that you wanted to 

work with us on these bills, but one of the questions I have is you 

have these guidelines that you suggest, and some of them are actually things that are in our bill. And so that is why I do not quite 

understand—we would love to have you supporting our bill and 

with us there. I think it would go a long way. And so I do not understand why you would want some of these things to be voluntary 

but then not mandated. 

Mr. LEWON. Some of the things that we see that we really like 

in your bill, as you mentioned, are on page 3 of my written testimony, and we do talk about records retention. We do not have any 

qualms about doing that. That is exactly the right thing to do, a 

camera or whatever we can do video-wise to photograph sellers of 

material. 

But the biggest problem we see with the bill as it is written— 

and we can work it out, but we would like to see the penalties enhanced against the thieves, who are the ones causing the problems, 

not the recyclers. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Both Senator Hatch and I have made statements that we do not see it that way. We just see that these—and 

we would certainly look at the criminal penalties, but we think 

these measures would help us to catch them. That is all we are trying to do, is to catch them, including the check requirement. Again, 

easier to catch them, especially when you have a repeat person 

that is going back and back and back, probably pretending they are 

someone else. I would think that would be helpful. 

So I just want to make that clear, that we are not trying to accuse the scrap metal dealers of any crimes here. We are simply trying to get the information that we can get so that we can help law 

enforcement to solve them. 

Mr. LEWON. Well, I think if you have the repeat customers, what 

we can do is this is a communication issue, where, OK, we have 

got the suspect here, come and get him. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. You may not always know. It maybe—well, 

maybe you want to answer that. I am putting my law enforcement 

hat on instead of letting the law enforcement experts answer this 

question. Chief Dohman, do you want to respond to that? 

Chief DOHMAN. Senator Klobuchar, in my testimony, I talked 

about the Grand Rapids case, and you alluded to it in your opening 

statements, and that is that the thief had established a relationship with the scrap metal dealer, had come there very often over 

a 3-year period of time, to the tune of over $300,000 worth of scrap 

metal theft, and that scrap metal dealer did not report, did not— 

participated, actually, in the criminal activity, we believe, rather 

than report the thief. And so in a perfect situation in a perfect 

world, that might work just absolutely fine, but not in all cases will 

that work. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Sheriff Kennard, do you want to respond to 

that? 

Mr. KENNARD. Well, he is right on if it is a major situation, and 

if we have manpower available to respond, needless to say we want 

to put somebody behind bars and catch a crook as fast as anybody. 

And we will and do respond if at all possible—but if somebody has 

made a call and said, ‘‘We have got a young man here that has got 

19 

$200 worth of stolen property,’’ there may be a major situation that 

is preventing somebody from getting there as fast as they want. 

We surely encourage and want to participate and work with 

those dealers. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you. 

Mr. Coffey, you mentioned that Qwest has developed a copper 

theft strategy that includes liaison with law enforcement agencies 

in support of investigations, particularly in high-theft areas. Can 

you tell me more about the partnerships? And where are the hightheft areas? Are they in urban areas, or where do they tend to be? 

Mr. COFFEY. Unfortunately, Senator, the high-theft areas will 

shift from time to time. When law enforcement intervention is successful, generally the problem, at least for a period of time, dissipates, and it will shift to another area. We do see more of a problem in rural areas from our perspective. 

The partnerships that we have developed with law enforcement 

have been successful, and I think that the Longview, Washington, 

case exemplifies that. In that instance, we worked with the Kelso 

Police Department in Washington, the Cowlitz County Sheriff’s Department in Washington, and the FBI to seek both Federal and 

State prosecution of those responsible for stealing significant 

amounts of copper cable. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. And do you think it would be helpful to 

have some increased penalties and the other thing we are looking 

at—I would look at it two ways. One is the penalties, but the other 

is to try to stop them from basically selling their wares in the first 

place. 

Mr. COFFEY. I agree, Senator. I think that the mandatory compliance is very important, and the criminal penalties associated with 

the failure to comply or to violate the law will certainly be a stern 

deterrent. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. I was thinking of this, Sheriff and Chief 

Dohman, as when I am thinking about the meth labs that we had 

for a while. They were rampant in our State, and, yes, we did increase penalties. But the other thing we did is we put some limits 

on where the ingredients could come from and Sudafed and the 

rules about where you could put things out. And at first, the pharmacies, some of the industry groups objected. They felt in a similar 

way that they were somehow being blamed for this. But we saw a 

dramatic decline—maybe you want to talk about it, Chief—after we 

did that. 

I will never forget testifying at the legislature about this, and we 

actually had a case I was able to show, because Iowa had enacted 

stronger laws, and we had these kids that were picked up buying 

a bunch of ingredients for meth labs. And they said, ‘‘Well, yeah, 

we are from Iowa, but we knew we could get in trouble down there, 

so we did it up in Minnesota.’’ And it was another example where 

going at it at its root cause, certainly not blaming pharmacies 

across the country but putting some limits on it, made a major difference. Do you want to talk about that, Chief? 

Chief DOHMAN. Senator Klobuchar, yes, that is a perfect example 

or analogy of going to the root of the problem. I believe that law 

enforcement has developed much greater efforts in working with 

the industry on many different issues, and that is one of the things 

20 

that we did with when we were experiencing meth labs, not only 

in rural Minnesota but also in the metropolitan area. And certainly 

the law that was passed reduced the number of meth labs that we 

are seeing. The sellers and the users are finding other places to 

purchase it now, but it is not being manufactured. And so the risk 

to public safety has been significantly reduced. 

I think that forcing or mandatorily forcing some restrictions on 

the scrap metal dealers is a good thing, but it does not mean that 

law enforcement will not continue to work with the industry to 

build the relationships and to work within those means of the 

tighter regulations. 

I would just like to offer—I think someone testified here about 

the ability for law enforcement to view records at the scrap metal 

dealerships without court order or without a search warrant. We 

have that ability in Minnesota, and that is another avenue that we 

can use to develop relationships with scrap metal dealers in our 

communities and in the rural areas. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Do you want to respond, Mr. Lewon? 

Mr. LEWON. Yes, there are a couple points. I think the point 

about viewing records is really a non-issue with us because that is 

part of Utah State law, and frankly we prefer that you do not come 

and bust down our doors to come view the records, because it is a 

non-issue. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. As a sheriff, I would not want him at my 

door. 

[Laughter.] 

Mr. LEWON. If he was not such a good guy. 

A couple of points that I think are important, where I do not 

want the law to go and catch people who are unintentionally buying material that is stolen, because, unfortunately that happens. 

But if there are people that are knowingly and intentionally buying 

scrap metal, throw the screws to them. We do not have a problem 

with that. But when you write the laws so tightly that you start 

to affect people particularly with cash provisions—there are 10 million people that are citizens of the United States—I am not talking 

about non-citizens—that do not even have a bank account. Why restrict them on the amount of cash? That is their bargain or their 

method of exchange. And they are out there. So that is something 

that needs to be understood. 

We have talked about crossing State lines, and this is really, I 

think, one of our big issues, that people are figuring out that 

maybe the laws in one State are less stringent than in another, 

and this is why we do not ask for a lot of—or you do not see a lot 

of people asking for preemption in a lot of places, and I think that 

Congress is reluctant to give it. But I think in this instance, you 

really need to take a look at it because I think that it would go 

a long way in solving a problem. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Mr. Coffey, do you think there is sufficient 

evidence out there, information about the crime of metal theft? I 

was thinking for me, then having this hearing and having worked 

on this bill, some of this was new to me. 

Mr. COFFEY. That is true, Senator. I think that it goes in spurts. 

When the problem is a big problem for a particular community, you 

tend to see a lot more light shed on the topic. When it shifts to anVerDate Nov 24 2008 11:54 Jan 27, 2010 Jkt 054558 PO 00000 Frm 00024 Fmt 6633 Sfmt 6633 S:\GPO\HEARINGS\54558.TXT SJUD1 PsN: CMORC
21 

other community, then the original community shifts to other areas 

that are more important to them. 

I would like to emphasize one thing, though. When we look at 

federal legislation regarding this crime problem, and we talk about 

going from state to state, I think it is also important to consider 

that these crimes, as you have heard this afternoon, they do impact 

the critical infrastructure of the United States, and they do have 

some effect or disruption on instrumentalities of interstate commerce. And so it is not only when a thief goes interstate with stolen 

metal. I think that just that level of disruption should be considered in this federal legislation. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. One thing I was curious about, Mr. Coffey. 

How did this usually get reported to you, by technicians, you know, 

when houses have not blown up, but they find out things are 

wrong? 

Mr. COFFEY. Right. There are two ways that we generally get notified that there is a disruption: either a customer will somehow get 

word to us, usually not over the cut telephone line, obviously; but 

the second instance is some of our lines are monitored so that we 

can determine in our network operations center when a line signal 

has been disrupted. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thanks. 

Mr. Sparby, how is it usually reported to you when it is not an 

employee stealing it from you? 

Mr. SPARBY. We have it reported by field personnel, but oftentimes it goes unnoticed for a considerable length of time with examples like when ground wires are taken from transformers in 

rural areas and, you know, they are later struck by lightning 

maybe 1 or 2 months, and because the ground wires which conduct 

the lightning away from the transformer are missing, you know, 

the transformer will be destroyed. And in those kind of cases, we 

find out about it literally days, weeks, or months after the crime 

itself. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. I discussed with Mr. Coffey some of the statistics, and you had some pretty staggering statistics in your written testimony: the fact that 95.1 percent of utility companies had 

experienced copper theft in the past year; that 86.6 percent of utility companies had a process in place to track incidents of copper 

theft; and yet there were more than 50,000 incidences, that we 

know of, of copper theft in the last year. 

Could you talk a little bit about how you get these—how does 

your utility company track copper theft? And with such a high percentage of companies tracking incidences, how come so much metal 

theft is still occurring? 

Mr. SPARBY. Chair Klobuchar, we have a very difficult infrastructure to protect. Xcel Energy alone has more than 300,000 conductor 

miles of electric line that stretch from Minnesota all the way down 

to new Mexico, more than 1,100 substations also spread throughout 

those eight States. So we have done a lot to incorporate electric and 

physical security, but to be sure, it must be coupled with legislation 

like we have here today in order to truly combat that problem. 

And in terms of the statistics, we work very hard as a utility to 

share information with operating companies, with sister utilities 

like Qwest. But truly there is a need for information to be shared 

22 

on a multiregional basis, and that might best be done by an agency 

like the FTC or the FBI. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. You mentioned you have been giving rewards out sometimes to catch people. Has that been helpful? 

Mr. SPARBY. Well, our experience is that that has not been—— 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Or some electric—I do not know if you 

have. 

Mr. SPARBY. That has not been particularly helpful for us. Our 

best efforts have been to work with the local sheriff’s office or other 

law enforcement agencies. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Oaky. You also mentioned that thieves are 

more likely to target utilities that are located in cities or suburbs 

rather than rural areas. Is that correct? 

Mr. SPARBY. Yes, it is, and that is not to suggest that it does not 

impact our rural facilities. It is just different facilities. In rural 

areas, they tend to hit us more at our construction sites at the end 

of the system where we are building the system. In the cities, it 

is more substations and warehousing facilities. But it is definitely 

a problem in both areas. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Thank you. Do you want to end just by saying why you think this Federal legislation is so important? 

Mr. SPARBY. This legislation really works to prevent an impact 

that is often hidden from the members of this panel and the Committee, and that is the tremendous impact on our customers and 

the grid that the utility and the city and county officials often have 

to respond to whose cost is never really tallied and included in the 

cost of this theft. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Oaky. Thank you. 

Does anyone else have anything they want to add? Mr. Lewon. 

Mr. LEWON. Thank you. Just one other thing, and that is, scrap 

metal recyclers like ourselves are victims of metal theft, too. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. That is right. 

Mr. LEWON. Because they do cut our fences and come in and take 

stuff. And so I do not want you guys to think that we are not impacted by it. We are. But we stand ready to come and work with 

you and put together a bill that will affect it and help. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. I am very glad about that, and I think this 

has been really helpful. We will have some good testimony and stories that we can tell and the staff can talk to our colleagues about 

so that we will be ready to go to get a bill done. So we are looking 

forward to working with all of you. Thank you. Welcome to your 

family, Chief Dohman. Who is here from your family? You can get 

it on the record. 

Chief DOHMAN. My daughter, who just graduated from high 

school, Kelly. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. She just graduated from high school? 

Chief DOHMAN. She just graduated from high school, and she has 

kind of the summer off before leaving for college, and she joined me 

today. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. What is her name? 

Chief DOHMAN. Kelly Dohman. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Where are you, Kelly? There she is back 

there. Oh, I can see you look like your mother. 

[Laughter.] 

23 

Chief DOHMAN. She hears that a lot. That is good some days, and 

some days not. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. It must be a little hard growing up as the 

police chief’s daughter, huh? 

Chief DOHMAN. We have heard those two things. 

Senator KLOBUCHAR. Very well. Thank you, everyone. I want to 

particularly thank my staff, Jonathan Becker, my counsel, who has 

worked on this extensively. Maybe he is ready to go into scrap 

metal dealing when he is done. And also Paige Herwig. So thank 

you to them and thank you to all of you. We look forward to working with you. 

The hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 3:40 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] 

[Questions and answers and submissions follow.] 

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