U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

31–340 WASHINGTON : 2018

HOW TO IMPROVE ACCESS TO GI BILL APPROVED APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS AND 

HOW THESE PROGRAMS BENEFIT VETERANS 

HEARING 

BEFORE THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC 

OPPORTUNITY 

OF THE

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS 

U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 

ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS 

FIRST SESSION 

WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 2017 

Serial No. 115–32 

Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs 

( 

Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov 

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COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS 

DAVID P. ROE, Tennessee, Chairman 

GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida, Vice-Chairman 

MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado 

BRAD R. WENSTRUP, Ohio 

AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American 

Samoa 

MIKE BOST, Illinois 

BRUCE POLIQUIN, Maine 

NEAL DUNN, Florida 

JODEY ARRINGTON, Texas 

JOHN RUTHERFORD, Florida 

CLAY HIGGINS, Louisiana 

JACK BERGMAN, Michigan 

JIM BANKS, Indiana 

JENNIFFER GONZALEZ-COLON, Puerto 

Rico 

TIM WALZ, Minnesota, Ranking Member 

MARK TAKANO, California 

JULIA BROWNLEY, California 

ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire 

BETO O’ROURKE, Texas 

KATHLEEN RICE, New York 

J. LUIS CORREA, California 

KILILI SABLAN, Northern Mariana Islands 

ELIZABETH ESTY, Connecticut 

SCOTT PETERS, California 

JON TOWERS, Staff Director 

RAY KELLEY, Democratic Staff Director 

SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY 

JODEY ARRINGTON, Texas, Chairman 

GUS BILIRAKIS, Florida 

BRAD WENSTRUP, Ohio 

JOHN RUTHERFORD, Florida 

JIM BANKS, Indiana 

BETO O’ROURKE, Texas, Ranking Member 

MARK TAKANO, California 

LUIS CORREA, California 

KATHLEEN RICE, New York 

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of rule XI of the Rules of the House, public hearing records 

of the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs are also published in electronic form. The printed 

hearing record remains the official version. Because electronic submissions are used to 

prepare both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process of converting 

between various electronic formats may introduce unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the current publication process and should diminish as the process 

is further refined. 

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C O N T E N T S 

Wednesday, September 27, 2017 

Page 

How To Improve Access To GI Bill Approved Apprenticeship Programs And 

How These Programs Benefit Veterans ............................................................. 1 

OPENING STATEMENTS 

Honorable Jodey Arrington, Chairman .................................................................. 1 

Honorable Beto O’Rourke, Ranking Member ........................................................ 2 

WITNESSES 

MG Robert M. Worley II USAF (Ret.), Director, Education Service, Veterans 

Benefit Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs ........................ 3 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 28 

Dr. Joseph W. Wescott, Legislative Director, National Association of State 

Approving Agencies .............................................................................................. 4 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 29 

Mr. Paul Marchand, Executive Vice President and Chief Human Resources 

Officer, Charter Communications ....................................................................... 6 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 33 

Mr. Dan Penski, Special Assistant to the General President, International 

Union of Painters and Allied Trades .................................................................. 8 

Prepared Statement ......................................................................................... 36 

Sam Shellenberger, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Veterans’ Employment And 

Training Service, U.S. Department of Labor, Prepared Statement Only ........ 40 

STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD 

Ms. Loring Rectanus, Additional Material for Transcript Insertion ................... 44 

Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC ....................................................................................... 44 

NC-Expert, Terry Jenkins ....................................................................................... 45 

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HOW TO IMPROVE ACCESS TO GI BILL APPROVED APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAMS AND 

HOW THESE PROGRAMS BENEFIT VETERANS 

Wednesday, September 27, 2017 

COMMITTEE ON VETERANS’ AFFAIRS, U. S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Washington, D.C. 

The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:04 p.m., in Room 

334, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Jodey Arrington [Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding. 

Present: Representatives Arrington, Bilirakis, Rutherford, Banks, 

O’Rourke, Takano, and CORREA. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF JODEY ARRINGTON, CHAIRMAN 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Good afternoon, everyone. I want to welcome 

you all to the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity’s hearing 

today entitled ‘‘How to Improve Access To GI Bill Approved Apprenticeship Programs and How these Programs Benefit our Veterans.’’ Expanding employment and training opportunities for veterans is the core mission of this Subcommittee, and today, we are 

here to review, what I believe to be, one of the best unknown and 

underutilized programs designed to help veterans achieve economic 

success. And we want to change that unknown part. 

By using VA’s on-the-job training and apprenticeship programs, 

veterans are able to supplement their incomes with both the stipend payments from VA for their post-9/11 GI Bill benefits as well 

as the wages from their employer while they are a trainee. Most 

importantly, at the end of their training program, they are able to 

step right into a beneficial career. 

I strongly believe there is a growing need to better align student 

outcomes to higher education funding, and I have commented on 

that before. And I don’t know many majors or programs at institutions of higher learning that can guarantee a job, essentially, at the 

end of their programs. This promise of employment through apprenticeship training is what makes this program so special. 

Despite many of its positives, there are—very few veterans decide to enroll in an apprenticeship program through their GI Bill 

benefits. In fact, the latest data from the Student Veterans of 

America NVEST project found that only 6 percent of students who 

have used the post-9/11 GI Bill are in an OJT or apprenticeship 

program. 

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A 2015 GAO report found that those veterans who do find out 

about this are more likely to obviously avail themselves of the program. The report also found out that the VA is not doing a sufficient job of educating those veterans in transition. The GAO report 

also mentions the paper-based system that is inefficient and burdensome. And, finally, the GAO recommended the VA do a better 

job of tracking student outcomes, which I know we all on this Committee are interested in, and to know if this program is working 

and what needs to be fixed to make it work better. 

I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about VA’s response 

to these recommendations and the progress that has been made 

since 2015. I am also concerned about reports we have received 

that the antiquated approval criteria for these programs make it 

incredibly difficult for larger employers to create a meaningful apprenticeship program that is approvable across State lines. 

I look forward to hearing from Dr. Wescott, with the State Approving Agencies, about how we can streamline these procedures to 

incentivize the creation of positive programs while maintaining appropriate quality and oversight. 

Finally, I am interested in hearing about our private sector witnesses, about the great things that they are doing for veterans, and 

their experiences with the OJT and apprenticeship programs, as 

well as why veterans are valuable to their programs and workforce. 

I do want to mention: I thought it was a little odd that we invited the Department of Labor, and they have some policy that 

they can’t serve on a panel alongside nongovernment witnesses. 

And I just find that odd, and it certainly is inefficient for us to do 

our job and ascertain information from all stakeholders to improve 

the process, improve the service, and help our veterans. 

And I met with the Secretary the other day on an unrelated 

issue, and he seems like a guy who has a good deal of common 

sense and good judgment, and I just can’t imagine that he is aware 

of this. I can’t imagine that he would support that. So I hope that 

changes so we can do our job and get to the bottom of these program inefficiencies, cost-effectiveness, and outcome opportunities. 

And enough about that. I don’t want to belabor that, but I was surprised by that, and I wanted to note that publicly. 

With that, I want to recognize my friend and Ranking Member, 

Mr. O’Rourke, for his opening remarks. 

OPENING STATEMENT OF BETO O’ROURKE, RANKING 

MEMBER 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I appreciate your 

work and that of your staff and the minority staff in bringing this 

hearing together. Those who are about to testify, some of whom we 

have heard many times at this table before and in roundtables that 

you have convened on the issue of earned educational benefits for 

veterans and how they transition into civilian life and are more 

successful and competitive by the oversight that this Committee, 

this Congress, and the folks who are here to testify are helping 

with. 

Out of interest in hearing from the panel and because I am going 

to leave earlier than I would like, to attend an Armed Services 

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Committee hearing, I will conclude my opening statement with 

that and allow you to begin the meeting. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Well, then I am going to cut my introduction 

short and just say let’s start with General Worley. 

And the rest of the panel, if they would make their way, so we 

can get this hearing started, because I do want the Ranking Member to be here as long as he can, maximize his time and— 

Mr. O’ROURKE. Thank you. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. You bet. And General Worley is the Director of 

VA’s Education Service. 

General Worley, thanks again for coming, and you have got 5 

minutes. The floor is yours. 

STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL ROBERT M. WORLEY II, 

USAF (RET.) 

General WORLEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, 

Ranking Member O’Rourke, and Members of the Subcommittee. I 

am pleased to be here today to discuss the Department of Veterans 

Affairs’ education and benefits programs. My testimony will focus 

on VA’s administration of apprenticeship training under the post9/11 GI Bill and other programs. 

Public Law 111-377 signed into law on January 4, 2011, amended the post-9/11 GI Bill and expanded the benefits and access to 

programs available to eligible participants. The post-9/11 GI Bill is 

the most utilized, as you know, of VA’s educational assistance programs. Apprenticeship programs are available to eligible veterans 

through their VA education benefits, including the post-9/11 GI 

Bill. These programs allow veterans to learn a trade or skill 

through training, instead of attending formal classroom instruction. 

A veteran generally enters into a training contract for a specific 

period with an employer, and at the end of the training period, the 

veteran gains job certifications or journey worker status. Veterans 

pursuing apprenticeship training under the post-9/11 GI Bill receive a monthly housing allowance which decreases in 6-month increments as wages are increased. Participants also receive up to 

$83 per month for books and supplies. 

The law provides that VA may pay educational assistance to eligible veterans and other individuals participating in approved 

training programs. The Department of Labor’s registered apprenticeships are considered deemed approved, as are those approved 

by DOL or State apprenticeship agencies recognized by DOL. State 

Approving Agencies, SAAs, overseeing education and training programs for veterans are responsible for approving most non-Federal 

apprenticeship programs in their respective States. 

Similarly, VA has authority to approve apprenticeship programs 

offered by Federal agencies, including DOL registered apprenticeship programs offered in multiple States by carriers directly involved in interstate commerce. Over 1.8 million individuals have 

used their post-9/11 GI Bill benefits since inception of the program 

in August of 2009. And looking historically, there have been over 

9,200 OJT and apprenticeship programs. 

Looking at all benefit types from fiscal year 2012 through fiscal 

year 2016, over 71,000 beneficiaries pursued training through OJT 

or apprenticeships. And in fiscal year 2017, approximately 30,000 

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beneficiaries are pursuing in this training through nearly 5,400 

unique OJT or apprenticeship programs. 

VA works with State Approving Agencies to streamline and 

standardize the approval process for apprenticeship programs. VA 

also works very closely with the Department of Labor staff to ensure registered apprenticeship sponsors understand the approval 

process for GI Bill benefits. This includes participating in teleconferences with employers, providing information as necessary, and 

sharing SAA contact information. 

In November of 2015, the VA developed and published an informational guide for employers offering or considering offering onthe-job training or apprenticeship training to veterans and their 

beneficiaries. A second edition was published in July of this year. 

The VA continues to work with the National Association of State 

Approving Agencies to ensure SAAs are aware of participating employers that have received national approval, as well as any pending approval concerns. 

There are some challenges in the approval process for employers 

because training may take place in multiple States, which, consistent with statutory and regulatory requirements, normally requires a separate approval by each individual State Approving 

Agency. The VA has worked to enhance the promotion of available 

OJT and apprenticeship opportunities through the transition assistance program, outreach events, various publications, and other 

platforms and strategies. 

In addition to traditional approaches, the VA uses social media 

outlets to provide greater visibility to enhance the awareness of 

these programs. 

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. Thank you for the 

opportunity today. I look forward your to questions. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL ROBERT M. 

WORLEY II APPEARS IN THE APPENDIX]

Mr. ARRINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Worley. 

Dr. Wescott, with the State Approving Agencies, the floor is 

yours for 5 minutes. 

STATEMENT OF DR. JOSEPH W. WESCOTT 

Mr. WESCOTT. Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O’Rourke, 

Members of the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, I am 

pleased to appear before you today on behalf of the 50-member 

State agencies of the National Association of State Approving 

Agencies, and appreciate the opportunity to provide comments on 

apprenticeship training under the GI Bill. 

Mr. Chairman, we certainly believe that working with our VA 

and DOL partners, we can improve in real and substantive ways 

the manner we approve and administer apprenticeship programs, 

and we know that there are ways that we can better inform eligible 

men and women about these programs. We strongly agree that outreach efforts need to be improved, and we believe that State Approving Agencies can provide a major part of the solution. With a 

slight adjustment in our contractual requirements, we could provide a more robust outreach to potential employers of veterans and 

their dependents. 

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For example, from fiscal year 2008 until fiscal year 2011, SAAs 

working with our VA partners increase the number of approved apprenticeship facilities from 4,471 to 5,285. However, since then, the 

number of approved facilities has decreased. In fiscal year 2016, 

the number of facilities was only 4,221. We believe the reason for 

this decrease is that, in the past several years, we and our VA 

partners have been tasked with focusing heavily on oversight of institutions. This valuable work has been accomplished with—somewhat at the expense of our ability to provide outreach for the OJT 

and apprenticeship programs. 

While we are deeply appreciative of this Congress, and particularly this Committee, in providing additional funding for SAAs, it 

is important that we now renew our focus on outreach and technical assistance to our Nation’s veterans and potential employers 

about this valuable program. 

In the past several years, despite limited time and resources, 

SAAs have been creative and innovative in attempting to reach employers and veterans with the messages that there is another path 

to employment for them other than college, and one that could 

prove equally rewarding. 

For example, Illinois, which had 357 approved and active apprenticeship and OJT facilities last year, has a vigorous outreach program, including out-of-stop visits to potential employers. The 

Washington SAA is an active participant in the Veterans Resource 

Employment Group, aimed at promoting the employment of veterans and program approval of apprenticeships and OJT programs 

in State government. SAAs will continue to work closely with the 

Department of Veterans Affairs and other local agencies or institutions. And with an appropriate shift in our focus, SAAs will be able 

to visit more active on-the-job and apprenticeship training programs on a regular basis. 

We must point out, however, that the current law limits the ability of SAAs to be reimbursed under their contract for outreach efforts unless the effort can be linked to a travel expense. Standard 

outreach and marketing strategies, such as news media and social 

media advertising cannot be reimbursed. NASAA recommends that 

38 U.S.C. 3674 be amended to add an additional category of reimbursement for outreach and marketing. 

NASAA has long sought the automation of the apprenticeship/ 

OJT process and claims processing. We certainly understand and 

empathize with the challenges faced by our VA partners in the automation arena. But it is truly time to replace the fax machine and 

the U.S. Postal Service as the primary means of delivering claims 

forms. Some headway has been made with the recent addition of 

apprenticeship and OJT enrollment certifications to the VA-ONCE 

online system. But complete automation would not only provide 

veterans with a more timely payment of benefits but would provide 

VA and SAAs with the ability to accurately track how many veterans are enrolled in approved apprenticeship programs. 

NASAA supports the efforts of Congress to modify existing laws 

to clarify the authority of State Approving Agencies, to approve 

registered apprenticeship programs that are based or 

headquartered in their respective State with job sites in multiple 

States. This is model already exists within our joint apprenticeship 

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and training committees as well as in the manner we approve distance education institutions. And the proposed legislation in Congress now simply represents a commonsense extension of the 

model. 

NASAA has worked closely with Congressman Ro Khanna from 

California’s 17th Congressional District, and we are excited about 

the potential of this new legislation. 

Mr. Chairman, the apprenticeship programs under the GI Bill 

provide a tremendous opportunity to put our Nation’s veterans 

back to work quickly and in meaningful and rewarding careers that 

are needed in our economy. We applaud the efforts of this Committee and our VA partners and stakeholders to improve administrative capabilities, overcome challenges to innovation, and increase outreach. 

I thank you again for this opportunity, and look forward to answering any questions that you may have. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF DR. JOSEPH W. WESCOTT APPEARS

IN THE APPENDIX]

Mr. ARRINGTON. Thank you, Dr. Wescott. 

And now, for 5 minutes, Mr. Paul Marchand, who is the executive vice president for human resources for Charter Communications. Mr. Marchand. 

STATEMENT OF PAUL MARCHAND 

Mr. MARCHAND. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman 

Arrington, Ranking Member O’Rourke, and distinguished Members 

of the Subcommittee. My name, as you said, is Paul Marchand. I 

am head of HR at Charter Communications. 

Thank you for the invitation here this afternoon to discuss a 

topic that we believe is vital, not just to Charter but to the country, 

and that is to improve economic opportunities for our brave men 

and women through GI Bill approved apprenticeship programs. I 

am honored to be sitting alongside these highly regarded representatives from both public and private sectors. The organizations represented here today are deeply committed and passionate in their 

support of our country’s veterans. And we appreciate the Committee’s bipartisanship and commitment to improving the lives of our 

veterans who have done so much for our country. 

Charter is America’s fastest growing TV, internet, and Voice 

Company. We are proud to serve more than 26 million customers 

in 41 States across our land. Every day, a highly skilled, diverse 

workforce helps us deliver better products and services under the 

Spectrum Brand to our customers across our footprint. In total, we 

have 92,000 employees, and we are committed to hiring 20,000 

more by 2020, primarily by ending our reliance on off-shore call 

centers. And at Charter, we are proud to say that veterans are a 

valued member of our team. 

Today, Charter employs 12,000 veterans, 13 percent of our workforce, and essentially we have double the government’s recommendation of 7 percent. This year alone, between January and 

August, we have hired approximately 4,000 veterans, and we are 

committed to increasing our overall veteran hiring by 5 percent 

over the next 3 years. 

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Veterans’ skills, you see, translate very well in our company. 

They bring mission-orientated mindset that is effective across all of 

our business units and all levels of our organization. Importantly, 

we don’t just want to hire veterans. We want to help them build 

on technical skills they gain from military experiences and begin 

a second and important career with Charter Spectrum. So we attract, we hire, and we intend to retain these veterans through several programs and partnerships. 

We recruit veterans by going where the servicemembers are, at 

military bases in the communities in which we serve. Charter is 

now part of a new career resource center at Fort Bragg in North 

Carolina. Through that partnership, we provide 4 weeks of training 

to Active-Duty men and women who are in their final months of 

military service. This program allows Charter to begin a relationship with these servicemembers and provide them a taste of what 

it is like to work as a technician, and it is at this start of a pipeline 

into our Spectrum Broadband Technician Apprenticeship Program 

and a fulfilling career. 

This well-regarded program, our apprenticeship program, allows 

these newly hired technicians to receive certification. These qualified veterans who were discharged in the last 10 years can secure 

GI benefits by completing the program’s classroom curriculum, the 

required on-the-job training, which allows them to both earn taxfree money in addition to their Charter paycheck. Today, over a 

thousand technicians are currently enrolled in 5 States that are 

home to large military bases in our program. 

One graduate of such a program, Fabian Luna, was hired as an 

insulation technician just out of the United States Army. And since 

being hired, he has been promoted five times and currently works 

as a Spectrum field tech supervisor in Morrisville, North Carolina. 

Our program has been so successful that we are working with the 

Department of Labor to expand it to a national level program, ultimately offering it in all 41 of our States that we operate in. 

Moving forward, we have a clear sense of what needs to happen 

to reach commitment to increase hiring in the percentage of veterans in our workforce. We will do this by the following: growing 

our presence on bases to ensure we are reaching veterans before 

they leave Active Duty; partnering with key military and veteran 

organizations, like the VFW, Hiring our Heroes, and many others; 

increasing awareness by veterans of our hiring roles and opportunities; and ensuring that veterans that are hired are not just hired 

to a job but are given opportunities to grow and develop their careers. 

Finally, we want to move faster and go further with our efforts 

to increase the number of veterans in our workforce. Charter 

stands ready to work with Federal and State agencies to build the 

awareness of these programs through more robust communications 

and improve the overall process and make it easier for companies 

to offer programs and veterans to apply for them. 

In closing, our veterans served at us at home, abroad, with great 

sacrifice to themselves and their families, and we owe it to them 

to make sure, when they leave Active Duty, they have careers that 

they continue to be proud of and they can support their families 

with good benefits and real pathways to advancement. 

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I thank the Committee for your time, and look forward to answering any questions you have. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF PAUL MARCHAND APPEARS IN THE

APPENDIX]

Mr. ARRINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Marchand. 

And now I ask Mr. Penski for remarks. 

Mr. Penski, Dan Penski, a special assistant to the general president of the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades. 

Mr. PENSKI. 

STATEMENT OF DAN PENSKI 

Mr. PENSKI. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member. Thank 

you for the chance to share the International Union of Painters and 

Allied Trades’ perspective and the great opportunities for veterans 

in the construction and building trades. 

As stated, my name is Dan Penski. I serve as special assistant 

to the general president, Mr. Kenneth Rigmaiden. He sends his 

apologies, as he was unable to sit before you today. 

I served in the U.S. Marine Corps, Marine Corps Reserves, Army 

National Guard, where I retired in 1998. I began in 1974 as a glazer apprentice in the IUPAT Local 660, Buffalo, New York. I continued as an apprenticeship until reaching my journeyman status, 

where I served as a glazer from 1982 to 1998, before moving into 

the IUPAT training department. 

My responsibility now is to support and shepherd veterans into 

the Painters and Allied Trades Veterans Program. The IUPAT represents industrial and commercial painters, drywall finishers, glazers, sign and display, floor coverers across North American. A few 

examples of our high-profile work include the painting of the Capitol dome, the installation of the exterior and interior glass at the 

Apple’s new headquarters. As a matter of fact, our glazers set the 

largest piece of glass ever installed in the cafeteria of Apple’s new 

headquarters. 

Training and education are the vehicles to performing high-quality work to maintain a leading edge in our industry. We utilize our 

Finishing Trades Institute, which is the educational and training 

arm of the IUPAT. Our joint labor-management relationship drives 

the success in the training of apprentice and journey workers. The 

FTI is in the leading edge of curriculum development, training, and 

utilizing of new industry technology for all of the crafts that we 

represent. 

The IUPAT apprenticeship program provides an affordable education, does not leave its participants with one penny of debt. Our 

apprenticeship programs are linked to jobs in the private and public sectors that earn a living wage and benefits. The apprenticeship 

model that the IUPAT uses is also the model of the building and 

construction trades. It is a jointly funded, labor-management 

model. All of our apprenticeship funds across the country are funded through contributions, agreed to by labor and management, paid 

on every hour worked. The apprenticeship funds are managed in 

partnership with contractors articulating industry concerns and 

needs, along with identifying recruitment and retention goals. 

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Curriculum is developed in-house at the FTI through labor-management partnership, making our apprenticeship model a successful market-driven approach to delivering a highly skilled construction worker. This partnership enables our membership to pursue 

lifelong learning opportunities. Nearly two-thirds of all registered 

apprentices in the United States work in the construction industry. 

Among construction apprentices, roughly three-quarters are enrolled in a union-sponsored apprenticeship program. 

Our IUPAT Veterans Program, or PAT-VP, began 4 years ago. 

PAT-VP offers transitioning servicemembers a 4-week program 

that blends classroom and hands-on training on the base at our 

training centers and off base. Upon graduation and separation from 

service, the PAT-VP places each graduate in an apprenticeship program, applies course credits, and finds them a job with one of our 

signatory contractors wherever they want to resettle in the U.S. 

The inaugural PAT-VP class at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in 

Washington State just graduated from their apprenticeship program a couple of weeks ago. We currently work with base staff to 

assist the recruitment and placement of transitioning soldiers into 

our PAT-VP. As the construction industry workers meet retirement 

age, we feel that the veteran community’s skill set and attributes 

are a perfect fit for the aging workforce. 

Our expansion is limited by base access in a vibrant construction 

market where signatory contractors have long-term job opportunities. To accelerate our placement of veterans, we also need access 

to our National Guard and Reserve centers. 

Benefits of on-the-job training and apprenticeship are available 

for veterans under the various VA educational assistance programs. Utilization of the post-9/11 GI Bill benefits vary from apprentice to apprentice. These decisions depend on the apprenticeship program they choose and where they want to relocate. We encourage veterans who enter our apprenticeship program not to use 

their GI benefits if they don’t have to. Our apprenticeship program 

is fully funded so their education is free. We advise veterans to use 

the GI benefits to pursue higher education. They may transfer 

earned credits from the apprenticeship program and continue their 

education outside of our training. Some vets use their GI benefits 

to offset housing costs and make up the difference in pay. 

The needs of tomorrow’s workforce require us to adjust to the 

rapid changes in the technology of our industry. This Committee 

should consider ways to strongly encourage the use of apprentices 

on Federal construction projects. As we know, this is the best way 

to increase apprenticeship opportunities. This, in turn, will increase the number of veterans placed in career paths in the construction industry. 

Thank you for this opportunity to address the Committee. I will 

entertain any questions at this time if you have them. Thank you. 

[THE PREPARED STATEMENT OF DAN PENSKI APPEARS IN THE APPENDIX]

Mr. ARRINGTON. Thank you, Mr. Penski. 

And thank all the witnesses for your testimony, for your time 

and input. It is an exciting opportunity to expand on and enhance 

a program that is working for our economy. It is working for our 

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veterans. It is working for companies like Charter Communications. And so let’s figure out together how we can make it easier 

for veterans and promote this opportunity to veterans so they can 

avail themselves of it. 

I am going to reserve my time and let my colleagues ask questions, and I will—I have several, and if they don’t ask them, I will 

get to them here at the end. 

Mr. Takano, I recognize you now for 5 minutes of questions. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, sir. 

First of all, let me welcome you all here and thank you all for 

testifying today. I wanted to—where is that question I was looking 

for? General Worley. 

General Worley, do we have any data or data on the number of 

veterans using the GI Bill for on-the-job training or about which 

employers are receiving the most GI Bill on-the-job training? Do we 

have any of that data? 

General WORLEY. In fiscal year 2017, we have by our records 

about 30,000 individuals in OJT and apprenticeship programs, and 

I will use this together because OJT apprenticeships are very similar programs. And I don’t, off the top of my head—I cannot tell you 

whether more of them are in one particular skill set or another. We 

can—I can take that for the record, Congressman, if you would like 

me to, but the number of individuals or beneficiaries so far this 

year is about 30,000. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. Do we know who are the top employers using 

the GI Bill for OJT? 

General WORLEY. I don’t have that information with me, sir. I 

am not sure if NASAA might have some of that data, but we can 

take that for the record. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. Thank you. We will look forward to that information. Will there be any earnings data or outcomes data on 

veterans who use on-the-job training? 

General WORLEY. One of the recommendations in the GAO study, 

as the Chairman pointed out, was focused on outcome measures. If 

I could just take a minute: There were three recommendations with 

the GAO report. The first had to do with outreach and publicizing 

these programs. This is done in a number of ways, as I mentioned 

in my testimony, there are a number of ways that we have been 

doing that through the Transition Assistance Program, through our 

over 50 different outreach events that we supported, social media, 

website, the guide that we published for employers who are potentially pursuing these kinds of programs. That recommendation has 

been closed out by the GAO. 

The second recommendation had to do with getting out of the fax 

business and the paper side of submitting the monthly certifications that apprentices and OJT folks have to submit through 

their employers. I am happy to report that we have made progress 

in that regard. We are not where we want to be, but we have made 

progress in that regard. The initial enrollment of someone in an 

OJT is now very similar to the initial enrollment of anyone else 

going to an IHL through our VA-ONCE system. So that information—that person can be loaded into our system and have that 

done electronically. 

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The monthly certification of the work hours by which they are 

paid will be in VA-ONCE by the end of this year. So that development has been underway and will be in VA-ONCE. In the meantime, that information can be submitted through our Ask A Question capability on the GI Bill website, and that in fact is being used 

quite significantly now by employers. 

The third, as you mentioned, Congressman Takano, has to do 

with outcome measures. We are working to be able to get that 

data. We don’t have it today. Both the completion of OJT and apprenticeships is one data point that we want to have as well and, 

more importantly, the information about employment. That is still 

a work in progress for us, along with all the other outcome measures we are using. 

Mr. TAKANO. Okay. Dr. Wescott, you mentioned something in 

your testimony about marketing, and I was not listening as carefully as I should have been. But are there restrictions on being able 

to get marketing to inform veterans about this these programs, and 

is there a prohibition or just not funding for it? 

Mr. WESCOTT. Well, certainly, we are very pleased with our increase in funding, but there is no line item in the contract as it 

now stands for outreach and marketing. So, if we are able to—one 

of the things that we will do in marketing as we are out on a visit 

and we have time, we might add a stop to a—even if we are at a 

school, we could potentially, again, if time allowed, stop at an employer, potential employer, and talk about this program. But any 

funding that would go to support marketing has to be tied to travel. So that is one of our concerns, is we would like to see that code 

rewritten so there would be a line item for marketing and outreach 

so that we could pay for advertising, pamphleting, things that 

wouldn’t necessarily be associated with marketing. 

Mr. TAKANO. So there is no prohibition—there is prohibition, but 

there is no funding? 

Mr. WESCOTT. There is—the problem is that there is no line item 

to provide for it. It is more like a prohibition. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Thank you, Dr. Wescott. 

I am sorry I went over my time, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Thank you. The gentleman yields. 

And I now recognize Mr. Bilarakis. for 5 minutes. 

Mr. BILARAKIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. And 

thanks for deferring to us and reserving your time, I really appreciate that very much. 

And I also appreciate the testimony today. 

I have one—I have a question for the general with regard to the 

GI Bill and the housing allowance. I understand that the current 

law is that you have to go to a brick-and-mortar school maybe full 

time—you can correct me if I am wrong—to get the housing allowance. 

Now, there are a lot of veterans, some who are disabled and 

aren’t able to take classes at a brick and mortar, or let’s say it is 

very inconvenient for them to get to a brick-and-mortar school, or 

it interferes with their work schedule. But there are now, you 

know, you have—of course, we cracked down on the fly-by-night 

schools, but now we have a lot of online schools. Of course, the 

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brick-and-mortar schools offer online as well, so very credible online schools. 

Are there any exceptions that we can make for a disabled veterans or one that—if you have PTS or what have you, and you 

would like to get your education at home, and still receive the 

housing allowance, are there any exceptions that can be made, or 

do we need to change the law? 

General WORLEY. Absolutely. The way it works today—and this 

was changed with Public Law 111-377. That was enacted in 2011. 

And what that did was, for those taking classes online, they do get 

housing allowance at one-half, 50 percent, of the national average. 

So if you are a full time, online student, you will get BAH at that 

rate. 

Now, if you take some of your classes by correspondence or online and take some in residence, then your housing allowance will 

be based on the school ZIP Code, the facility code that you are 

going to. So it would be more than— 

Mr. BILARAKIS. You would get the full allowance if you take half 

the courses. 

General WORLEY. Depending on your benefit level. 

Mr. BILARAKIS. How do you justify only 50 percent reimbursement, you know, where they still have to pay—if the housing allowance is to pay for your mortgage, what have you, or your bills, because you aren’t able to work full time, what have you, why not 

get the full allowance? 

General WORLEY. To increase that, that would require legislation, sir. 

Mr. BILARAKIS. All right. Thank you very much. 

The next question is for Mr. Marchand. I hope I pronounced that 

right. I am very familiar with Charter’s infrastructure, being from 

the State of Florida. And I know you all do a lot of good in the community and help veterans. Your investments coupled with nearly 

12,000 veterans who make up your workforce help local economies 

and tie you to communities you serve. And I want to thank Mr. 

Penski as well, again, for hiring our true heroes, and they are the 

best workers because they are dedicated; they have the work ethic 

and the integrity. So I appreciate that very much. 

Can you expand on your apprenticeship program for veterans 

and whether it is or will be implemented in Florida, as Florida is 

among the most veteran-friendly State, and we have about 2 million veterans in Florida—in the State of Florida? Sir, can you expand on that—on the apprenticeship program? 

Mr. MARCHAND. Absolutely. Thank you. And, yes, Florida is a 

very important State for our— 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Can you push your talk button over there? 

Mr. MARCHAND. It was talk. Is that better? 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Yes. 

Mr. MARCHAND. Sorry about that. Thank you. The State of Florida is a very important state in our footprint, as you know, and we 

recently were helping and continue to help recover from the hurricanes that have gone through that area. So we appreciate the partnership we have had with the state legislators. 

Currently, it is not offered in the State of Florida, but it is a 

state that we are working to roll out the apprenticeship program 

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to. We are currently in five states, Missouri Nebraska, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Texas, and our intent is to go after all 

states that we have our business operations in, which would be 41 

total states. Some of the states that we are going to go after require us to have national Department of Labor certification, and 

some states are going to require individual state by state applications and processes. So Florida is absolutely in our focus area and 

will be part of where we go next. 

Mr. BILARAKIS. Thank you very much. This question, again, is for 

you, sir, and also Mr. Penski, if he wants to talk as well on this 

subject. 

Are there particular skills that veterans have that make them 

more attractive to an employer like Charter or to the Painters 

Union, what have you? Let’s go ahead and start with you, sir, Mr. 

Marchand, and Mr. Penski, if you would like to respond as well. 

Mr. MARCHAND. You know, I think there is a wealth of skills that 

veterans have that we have already addressed. You know, there is 

a tremendous amount of technical capability and expertise. They 

are very process orientated, clearly collaborative. I would also say 

that, beyond skills, there is a tremendous character. There is a 

work ethic and character that is unquestioned. They are dedicated. 

They are hard-working. They are resilient. They work through 

things like hurricanes with pride and with passion. 

So I think it is a combination of those two things, character and 

capability, that make them outstanding employees, and typically 

they stay a lot longer than our average employees. They retain in 

the company. 

Mr. BILARAKIS. I agree. Well, my time is expired, but, Mr. 

Penski, can you briefly address that? 

Mr. PENSKI. Thank you. I would add a couple of more things. 

Number one, they are mission orientated, and they will get the job 

done. And they are very team orientated, which is very important 

to the construction trades that we represent. Their safety is up to 

standards. And being a former Marine and looking at these veterans coming into our program, these veterans look out for each 

other. 

And in this apprenticeship program, it is another family for them 

coming, transitioning from the military into these apprenticeship 

programs and getting into our union. It is something that just energizes them and motivates them. They are there every day to go 

to work. They understand that making money for our employer is 

huge, and they do it. They do a great job. 

Mr. BILARAKIS. Thank you. And thank you for your service. I am 

looking forward to you bringing the program to Florida. 

Mr. PENSKI. It is there. 

Mr. BILARAKIS. Mr. Marchand, Charter. Thank you very much, 

again. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. I want to thank the gentleman from Florida. He 

yields. 

And I want to recognize my friend from California, Mr. Correa, 

for 5 minutes. 

Mr. CORREA. This is a most important hearing, very important 

issue, and thank you gentleman for all you do for our veterans. 

Mr. PENSKI. You are welcome. 

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Mr. CORREA. It is my opinion that the best thing you can do for 

a veteran when they come back stateside is to get them a job, getting a good middle class job. 

And, gentlemen, last week, I was in Los Angeles. I ran into the 

chancellor of the Los Angeles Community College District. We 

struck up on a discussion about construction, bonds issued in LA, 

and project labor agreements. They have a PLA in LA Community 

College. I asked them, I said: Do you have a local hiring requirement? 

He said: Yes, we do. We have a local content in—veteran content 

requirement at 35 percent. 

And I said: So what percentage is now veteran and local? 

He said: Fifty-five percent of all the employees LA Community 

College construction are at that level. 

In Orange County, a number of schools districts, a number of cities are moving in that direction as well. 

The State of California is just embarking on a massive, massive 

brick-and-mortar construction project throughout the State of California. So you got what appears to be massive demands for trained 

folks in the construction industry. A lot of them also happen to be 

retiring. 

And so the general question to all of you gentlemen is, I presume 

you have a plan to hook up with all these folks that are going to 

need all these trained workers. And given all the veterans that are 

coming back, I think we are looking at a gold mine if we can figure 

out how to connect all these veterans with all these new jobs that 

are about to explode, at least in the State of California, in my district. 

Mr. WESCOTT. Congressman, let me just say that, we in the State 

Approving Agencies are excited about those opportunities. I can tell 

you from my perspective, because I also serve as the Executive Director of the North Carolina State Approving Agency, we just 

began working with this contract for apprenticeship and OJT this 

past year. One of the things that I did was I met with the president of the North Carolina Community College system to talk 

about how we could promote apprenticeships in conjunction with 

that system. We think there is a very real possibility of linking 

that outreach. I would also look forward to meeting with National 

Guard leadership in the State. And also— 

Mr. CORREA. Thank you very much for that. 

Mr. WESCOTT. Yes. So that, again, we could reach out to these 

folks and make them aware of this extremely valuable program. 

Mr. CORREA. And if I—let me say that a lot of these folks at the 

local level that are going to hire these construction folks would be 

more than happy, I am sure, to reach out and work with you, really 

not at very high cost of marketing and trying to get your message 

out there, but just trying to get those workers in the front door. I 

know millennials get a bad rap, but I think veterans at the same 

time get an excellent rap. So I think this is a tremendous opportunity to get our veterans employed. 

Mr. WESCOTT. As a former infantryman, we are not afraid to get 

our hands in the dirt. And, yes, we would look forward to working 

with those sectors as well. 

Mr. CORREA. And I offer my office as well as a resource. 

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Mr. Chairman, I yield the remaining of my time. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. I thank the gentleman from California. 

I now recognize the distinguished gentleman from Florida, Mr. 

Rutherford. 

Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

And thank you, panel, I can tell you as a Representative from 

northeast Florida’s Fourth Congressional District, which has a lot 

of military installations, and we have about 150,000 retirees there 

in northeast Florida. This is really critical I think to the economic 

success of northeast Florida and, quite frankly, our country and 

does a great service to our veterans who have put so much on the 

line. 

I also want to say a special thank you to Charter and Mr. 

Marchand for the commitment. You know, we just suffered Hurricane Irma in the State, and it was devastating, to say the least. 

And I know your company really stepped up in the $1.3 million 

help there, and we really appreciate that. 

So, Mr. Marchand, let me ask you this question. I was reading, 

and I think you mentioned also that you all are intending to hire, 

if I got the number right, 20,000 workers by 2020. And can you explain how you intend to, I mean—you talk about a marketing 

nightmare—how are you going to achieve that? 

Mr. MARCHAND. Well, first and foremost, we are doing that because we have a number of our jobs that are located offshore, and 

our mission, our values, our company’s operating philosophies to 

have those as American jobs in our American soil. And recently in 

McAllen, Texas, we opened up a 600-person call center to serve 

Spanish-speaking customers across the United States where previously that work was done outside of the footprint of the U.S. 

So it starts first with the mission of having service and resources 

to our customer base in the communities in which we serve. That 

is so critical. So, if you have a technician who is serving you locally 

and a call center that is serving you in a geographic footprint that 

is near you or a news station, an outlet, that is providing information to you locally, that is kind of who our company is. 

How we are going to do that, we have a well-oiled machine in 

terms of recruitment. We are actively sourcing candidates. We are 

actively using all means, whether it is anything from local like career fairs or connections with universities and colleges and trade 

schools, or it is the, you know— 

Mr. RUTHERFORD. So people can get an idea how critical these 

positions that you are talking about are, can you talk a little bit 

about the benefits for those employers that come into that apprentice program? 

Mr. MARCHAND. We have outstanding benefits. We provide wonderful health and welfare benefits. We provide a wonderful 401(k). 

We match at 6 percent. We have an additional 3 percent non-elective. So, even if you are not a participant in our 401(k), we automatically enroll you in 3 percent so that you can start saving for 

long-term retirement. 

We have ability for you to go back to school at night, if you want 

to do that, if you don’t have your undergrad or graduate degrees. 

So we have comprehensive benefits. 

Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you. 

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Mr. MARCHAND. And pay. And our intent is to sort of go out and 

find talent that can be part of our future. 

Mr. RUTHERFORD. These sound like great positions to raise a 

family and create the whole American Dream. 

Dr. Wescott, can you please talk a little bit about why you think 

we have had this drop in the number of approved OJT apprentice 

programs when so much is—you know, since 2011, it has actually 

gone down. And I noticed, when General Worley mentioned that 

you were going to be able to do some of this filing with VA-ONCE, 

you seemed excited about that. Is that going to help turn some of 

these numbers around, do you think? 

Mr. WESCOTT. We would certainly hope so. And I am indeed excited about that. And the fact that that could happen within the 

year will be a real plus, not only in us being able to attract what 

is going on in our States and where we have active apprenticeships, but then using that data and information to grow those apprenticeships. I think basically one of the reasons that our numbers went down—and, again, I want to thank this Committee and 

this Congress for increasing funding for SAAs. We were flat-funded 

for 10 years. And, of course, our expenses went up. 

Also, around 2011, we began helping the VA with their very important work with compliant surveys. So we added an additional 

mission as well. So, you know, if you have X number of folks and 

you shift your mission some, then it has to shift away from something. We are now excited at the possibility that with the increased 

funding with a renewed focus on apprenticeship and OJT, that we 

can really grow this sector. I, for one, am convinced that there are 

folks who just don’t know about this benefit at the level which they 

need to. 

Mr. RUTHERFORD. Yep. 

Mr. WESCOTT. And we want to reach those people. 

Mr. RUTHERFORD. Right. And that is why I was asking Mr. 

Marchand. Put some of that out there about what kind of positions 

these really are. So thank you, Mr. Chairman, my time is up, and 

I yield back. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. The gentleman yields, and now I would recognize Mr. Banks from the great State of Indiana. 

Mr. BANKS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. Penski, could you maybe dig deeper into an explanation of 

how the apprenticeship programs are funded and what portion of 

that funding comes from the Federal Government? 

Mr. PENSKI. There is no funding from the Federal Government. 

The funding for the IUPAT apprenticeship programs are collectively—they are contributions that are collectively bargained between both labor and management. So, each year, the IUPAT, the 

contributions may vary within the district council. We are broken 

into district councils. Those are the umbrellas under the IUPAT. So 

those are funded locally. All that training is funded locally. 

On the international side, the Finishing Trades Institute, that is 

also funding off of per hour. And through that funding, grants go— 

training grants go down to our training centers throughout the 

IUPAT. In every area of the country, we have some very good 

training programs because of the economy, in large numbers. In 

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other areas, we have smaller ones, so they get subsidized above 

and beyond through the Finishing Trades Institute or the IUPAT. 

Mr. BANKS. So funded entirely by dues-paying members? 

Mr. PENSKI. Correct. 

Mr. BANKS. And to expand on that. Can any veteran join an apprenticeship program, or how do you select the veteran who would 

be able to participate as an apprentice? 

Mr. PENSKI. Up at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, there is consultation—it is getting into the TAP Office, explaining to the staff there 

and to the veterans what the programs are about. Then there will 

be one-on-one consultations, talking about the programs, talking 

about the benefits. Because—it is ironic because people hear Painters Union, and they think that is all that the program is about 

painters. Once they really understand that, as I said earlier, 

drywall finishers, glazers, so on and so forth, they may have a 

choice—a wider choice than to say what program I would like to 

get into. 

At that point, if it is through the base, and we end up doing a 

4-week immersion program, then we will put those folks into the 

direct apprenticeship program. 

Mr. BANKS. But how specifically are they selected? 

Mr. PENSKI. Looking at their ASVAB, looking at their—through 

their communication, through their interest in the programs, we 

found a little bit in the past where some of the veterans came into 

the TAP office, they wanted to get into the apprenticeship program, 

but it really wasn’t for them. 

Glazing, you can’t be afraid of heights. Industrial painting, you 

can’t be afraid of heights. So, once some of these veterans came in, 

they decided: Well, maybe I will look at another craft, or maybe I 

will go in a different direction. 

So it is not for everybody. But the biggest thing that I think that 

the general president’s vision is, it is opportunities, and it is opening the opportunities for our veterans to get into the program. 

One of the other methods we have is we have a Painters and Allied Trades veterans’ website. And I get emails from veterans all 

the time inquiring about the IUPAT. It starts off with a few emails. 

And I will ask for a resume. Then it turns into some phone calls. 

And if this veteran says, you know, I want to go to Indianapolis. 

I will contact the training director there. Whatever trade they were 

looking at, I will walk them through all of the crafts that we represent, the timelines of the apprenticeship, the benefits that they 

receive from on-the-job learning to getting college credits for the 

courses they take, and the advancements beyond that. Then we 

will get them put into the program or the area that they select to 

go into. 

Mr. BANKS. Thank you. 

General Worley, does the VA help counsel veterans and help 

them figure out whether an apprenticeship program might be better for them than a 4-year degree? 

General WORLEY. We don’t. At least in education service, we do 

have the resources to counsel individually in the vocational rehabilitation area, which is not my lane. But there is counseling provided for disabled veterans for their education and employment efforts. So our work at having the consumers—informed consumers 

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is through the various media that I mentioned and outreach events 

and those types of things, sir. 

Mr. BATES. So it is a capacity—it is a funding issue to allow you 

to give that good counsel, that good advice to veterans to help them 

choose one over the other? 

General WORLEY. Well, we have about a million beneficiaries a 

year using the GI Bill benefits that we have, so that is a big task 

to be able to counsel each one of them, sir. 

Mr. BANKS. Thank you. I yield back. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. The gentleman yields. And now I will yield myself 5 minutes. And following on some of these questions—and then 

we may have a second round for those who want to stay. And I 

know Mr. Takano has some follow-up questions. 

General Worley, I apologize for not saying General Worley. You 

earned that title, and thank you for your service. This notion of a 

monthly certification by the recipient participant in the program 

and the institution or the company seems a little onerous to me. 

It seems like you could do a semiannual, maybe even annual with 

audits, sort of signed off on by both the institution, so you got accountability on both ends, but sort of just sample the population 

and audits, save some money there. That was just the first thing 

that came to mind when I was asking—learning about the program 

and asking questions with my colleagues. 

So any thoughts about that? So there is not a monthly paperwork 

issue? 

General WORLEY. Mr. Chairman, the purpose of the monthly certification, and maybe certification is the wrong term, but it is to 

verify to the VA the number of hours that were worked so we can 

put that into the system and pay the beneficiary. 

I think as we get better in terms of the technology, this will be 

very easy to do and very unburden some through the VA-ONCE 

system. But, I mean, certainly, you know, you could do that less 

frequently, but, again, the purpose is to get those work hours and 

the rate— 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Pay them per the amount of time they have 

spent up to that point. 

General WORLEY. Exactly. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. So that makes sense. I appreciate that. And 

then Ro Khanna, Representative Khanna is a good friend. And I 

am always encouraged when other Members outside of our Committee engage their veteran population and come to us with ideas 

on how to fix things and make them easier for our veterans and 

improve the quality of service, et cetera. So I really wanted to say, 

first of all, kudos to Mr. Khanna. 

And it sounds like a great idea to me that you have a company 

headquartered in X State that has a number of other States with 

a presence that they would be able to or you all would be able to 

safely, responsibly and appropriately certify them in a streamlined 

way in other States, maybe even just with one approval that is reciprocated throughout the number of States where they have a 

presence. I mean, common sense, doable, still safe, responsible for 

the veteran and all that. 

Any comments, Dr. Wescott? 

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Mr. WESCOTT. Mr. Chairman, we indeed are very pleased at this 

idea. We have been in conversations with the Congressman over 

the past several weeks about this. And when they first came to us, 

we talked with his team and then actually with him as well, and 

talked about how we could do this. It is an extension of what we 

are already doing in the distance learning area. It makes sense. 

We are making sure that we have the protections and, therefore, 

the veteran, you know, the State out of which this national apprenticeship is originating, we will make sure that it meets the required standards of the code. The veterans have protection. But 

then, you know, in the training sites where those veterans are 

working, you know, we won’t necessarily need to be involved in the 

approval, but if there is an issue, State Approving Agencies within 

that State could address those as well. 

So, yes, sir, we are very pleased with the thought of this expansion and anything that will move this program forward. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. And let me just say—and I think it goes without 

saying—I hope that you guys feel comfortable enough to talk to any 

one of us, but always look for those opportunities. I know that 

sometimes you can flex the policy to the maximum, but you run up 

against a legal barrier, and where it doesn’t make sense, where 

technology can improve that or continue that in a responsible way. 

But where there is a legal barrier, please let us know so we can 

work with you to just make things better for everybody. 

I have got other questions. Let me ask my last one for this round 

to Mr. Marchand. Is that how you say it, Marchand? 

Mr. MARCHAND. That works. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Marchand? 

Mr. MARCHAND. Better the second time. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. I am from west Texas. We, you know, French, 

and—you know. 

Kudos to your company, to Charter and your ethos, your values 

for keeping jobs here—I know that is tough to do these days—and 

also for your commitment to the veteran community. 

It seems like you guys have as much of an incentive to promote 

and raise the awareness of this program as the VA. I mean, you 

guys benefit. And what can we do to make it easier for you to engage at the right points in the process, whether it is on base, offsite? In whatever form or manner, how can we open up those opportunities so that you can do the job that all stakeholders need 

to be doing to make these guys aware of the program? 

Mr. MARCHAND. Sure. Thank you first for the compliment. 

And I think there are a few things that have been said, but I will 

sort of repeat them. You know, awareness of the program is far 

paramount. You know, letting veterans know that this is something they can avail themselves to is so critical. I think we will do 

everything we can, but it has to be sort of a collective voice. Right. 

I think awareness of the opportunity to other corporations, which 

is something as I was asked to come here today, was really a light 

bulb that went off that said, you know, what more can Charter do 

with our industry company partners and non-industry company 

partners to make them aware of everything we are getting out of 

it that they could join in the cause? Right. So that is something I 

think we will try to take on. 

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Embracing digital, there is no question, if we can make things 

more streamlined and easier and more effective. This sort of concept of one pass for us across the country, since we operate in multiple States, will make it easier. We will do the hard work as the 

pioneering company. I am sure other companies behind us would 

benefit from, yeah, I operate in multiple states. Give me sort of the 

one DOL, sort of one pass, one approval to do this. Make it easy 

for the veteran themselves as they are going through it and the 

hours that they have to put in and all the paperwork they have to 

do. And, you know, I think embrace it as much as we have embraced the concept of simply hiring veterans. 

You know, it is this conversation about not every veteran has to 

go to a 4-year institution. Joining companies and getting on-the-job 

work experience that we are committed to providing and other companies are committed to providing is a great route as well. A lot 

of times there is a pressure to say, okay, go to school, and that is 

not the answer for everybody. Certainly, at a certain life stage, it 

is not. 

So I applaud everything that is being discussed, and we think 

there is a great opportunity. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. My time has expired. 

I now recognize Mr. Takano for another 5 minutes. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this. 

Mr. Marchand, tell me, how is your program—I imagine the company funds the apprenticeships. Is there any cost to the veteran to 

participate in this apprenticeship? 

Mr. MARCHAND. There is no cost. We are fully funding both the 

on-the-job training, we are paying their salaries. We are investing 

in future talent for our company. 

Mr. TAKANO. And you have various kinds of apprenticeships. Do 

they lead to any kind of certifications? 

Mr. MARCHAND. They lead to this broadband certification. Yes, 

they lead to certification of being a technician. 

Mr. TAKANO. And does this certification only allow them to work 

at Charter, or could they take that certification and work for any— 

Mr. MARCHAND. It is transferrable. 

Mr. TAKANO. That is really amazing. 

Mr. MARCHAND. We are helping them be active workers in the 

workforce in general. We will do everything to retain them, but if 

they choose to go, they can land other roles. 

Mr. TAKANO. And do you understand the distinction between a 

registered apprenticeships versus an apprenticeship that is not registered? Is that a concept that is familiar to you? 

Mr. MARCHAND. You mean registered like— 

Mr. TAKANO. There is such a thing as registered apprenticeships 

and not. Does the State Approving Agency understand what I am 

trying to talk about here? You might want to comment on that 

briefly. 

Mr. WESCOTT. I will be glad to, Congressman. Basically, of 

course, registered, they have to go over to the Department of Labor 

or to the State departments of labor and register that apprenticeship. If for some reason they don’t want to do that or do not wish 

to do that, then we can—we could work with them to develop an 

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apprenticeship, a nonregistered apprenticeship, and then the veterans could use their benefits in that program. 

Obviously, if it meets the qualifications for a registered apprenticeship, we will always encourage them to engage with, you know, 

our State departments there. 

Mr. TAKANO. My understanding from counsel is that Charter’s 

apprenticeships are registered. The benefit of the registration is 

that there is the recognizable, they are a certification that is recognized. And hence, your apprentices, once they have completed the 

program, are able to work anywhere. That is an important thing 

to me, this distinction of registered. 

Some people think it is too cumbersome to get this done, but I 

think the due diligence is really of service to the veteran and anybody who participates in an apprenticeship. So I really congratulate Charter for doing that, for registering the apprenticeship and 

for offering that extra value. You are taking a risk, to some extent, 

of training somebody that could actually leave you and go someplace else. I doubly offer you kudos for that. 

Mr. Penski, a little bit more about the Project Labor Agreements 

and how they help apprentices. What I know about Project Labor 

Agreements is the negotiation that happens with an entity, a public entity. And what happens in these agreements is that a certain 

amount is set aside for apprentices and for veteran hire and local 

hire. Is that not correct? 

Mr. PENSKI. You are absolutely correct on that. 

Mr. TAKANO. And what I find remarkable in the question of my 

colleague Mr. Banks is that no Federal dollars are involved in paying for these apprenticeships. And, again, is there any cost to the 

veteran or the apprentices to participate in your programs? 

Mr. PENSKI. There is no cost at all. It is all self-funded through 

the IUPAT and the affiliates in the IUPAT. 

Mr. TAKANO. And is the IUPAT, like many other labor unions, 

do they have training facilities? Do you have a training facility 

where you train your apprentices? 

Mr. PENSKI. Currently, I believe there are 107 multicraft training centers throughout the IUPAT today. 

Mr. TAKANO. And who pays for those? Who pays for those facilities? Who funds those facilities? 

Mr. PENSKI. Those are built by labor and management, their contributions. In some cases, if there may be a government grant 

available for something through our government affairs departments, they may seek out grants. As a matter of fact, I believe 

right now there are three of our training—our district councils that 

are accredited through the COE, and we are working on the majority of our training centers to become accredited. So they are going 

to become colleges, self-funded. 

Mr. TAKANO. That is really quite remarkable. But the bulk of the 

funding comes through these shared agreements between labor and 

management, the contributions? 

Mr. PENSKI. The majority of that money, yes, comes through the 

collective bargaining agreements collectively bargained between 

labor and management. 

Mr. TAKANO. I would love to find out how to visit one of your 

training centers. I have visited some centers from other labor, but, 

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in my estimation, no one does it better than the craft unions and 

the labor unions. So I congratulate the investment and commitment you have to your members and to apprentices and to our veterans. So thank you. 

And my understanding is that these Project Labor Agreements 

are one of the few ways in which we can give preferences to local 

hires and to veterans and to actually build those preferences into 

those agreements. 

Mr. PENSKI. You are absolutely right. And I think that is probably the best avenue to make sure that we get these veterans onto 

these Project Labor Agreements in those local communities. 

And I just would like to add too, I mentioned earlier about the 

National Guard and the Reserve centers. Those folks live in those 

communities already. They spend in those communities. Their children go to school there. To invest in those veterans coming out of 

those National Guard centers locally and then putting them onto 

a project labor agreement is just a—is a total win-win. Not to take 

away from our veterans who may want to transition out of Joint 

Base Lewis-McChord or Andrews and move somewhere else, but investing locally in those veterans and putting them to work is phenomenal. 

Mr. TAKANO. Mr. Chairman, before I yield back, I just want to 

say that in this Congress and in previous Congresses, I have noticed there has been a bipartisan majority that backs the concept 

of the Project Labor Agreements. And I am really pleased to know 

that members of your party and my party have joined together 

with the craft unions to protect that principle. Thank you. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Thank you for your comments. 

The gentleman yields. And I now recognize Mr. Rutherford for 

another 5 minutes. 

Mr. RUTHERFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 

I want to follow up on Mr. Takano’s first question dealing with 

the registration of programs and the chartering of programs. I 

think, Mr. Wescott, when you responded, it sounded like it was either DOL can offer that certification or the State authorizing agency can do that or—well, you didn’t get into this, but in the material 

it says or the VA. 

So my question is, seems like we have three bodies here that you 

guys are having to suffer under for these certifications and regulations. You know, is there some way—and it seems like the State 

authorizing agencies would be the place to go because they know 

the particular certifying requirements for licensing and things 

within their jurisdiction. Is it an and, or is it an or? It sounds like 

an and to me. 

Mr. WESCOTT. I think both of us can speak to that. I will speak 

to what I know of in North Carolina, because I have become remarkably acquainted with this sector having picked up this contract. 

It really is an and, and it works well as long as the liaison is 

there. And we have worked hard in North Carolina to make it 

work. We work very closely with our State office. So that if a business owner calls in, he is interested in setting up a program for 

veterans, an apprenticeship, we will then connect him with the 

State office so that they will work with him to set up a registered 

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apprenticeship that will be available for all of his employees. And 

then if he has some of those employees that are veterans, he then 

sends them back to us, provides us—he or she sends them back to 

us, provides us with the information we need to then add a couple 

of documents in our office and work with him to explain how it will 

work with the GI Bill. And then we send that over to the VA, and 

they process that, give him a facility code, and he is now able, that 

veteran is now able to undertake his training. 

It is a smooth process, but certainly for the veteran, he gets a 

little—and I am proud of this—a little higher degree of protection 

and attention, because we are involved in there making sure that 

the employer is fully aware of what needs to be done. 

Mr. RUTHERFORD. General? 

General WORLEY. Thank you. If I might add, think about it in 

a couple of different ways. DOL registered apprenticeships, the employer has to go through a certain, you know, set of requirements 

and meet certain criteria and standards to be a DOL registered apprenticeship. 

In the law, that is a deemed—from the GI Bill perspective, that 

is a deemed approved apprenticeship for GI Bill. So they don’t have 

to reinvent the wheel when they go to the State Approving Agency. 

They have to provide a notification. There is a certifying official 

and an application and then the training package that they already 

had. So it is a streamlined process to get GI Bill approved, if you 

are already a DOL registered apprenticeship. If you are not a DOL 

registered apprenticeship, then the SAA has the responsibility and 

authority to review the training plan and make sure the wages are 

there and all of those things. 

Mr. RUTHERFORD. So those are the employers that we are hearing from, the ones that aren’t in those already certified or registered programs that say they are double-working everything. Is 

that correct? 

General WORLEY. There might be that complaint out there. I 

don’t know. But there was a significant effort back in 2015 that has 

progressed to today to try to streamline that process and reach out 

to DOL registered apprenticeship employers and let them know, if 

they didn’t already know, that it is just a couple more steps to be 

a GI Bill approved apprenticeship. 

Mr. RUTHERFORD. To kind of follow up on the offer by the Chairman, if you would, if you think there is a need for a legislative fix 

to streamline that for those employers out there, let us know. 

Thank you. 

I yield back my time. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. The gentleman yields. 

And the chair would offer any comments from Mr. Correa. Mr. 

Correa, if you have comments. 

Mr. CORREA. Conclusion, or are we having the last round? 

Mr. ARRINGTON. No, we are going to keep going as long as you 

have questions. 

Mr. CORREA. Very quickly, do we have, gentlemen, any thoughts 

of following up on how veterans do after they finish your apprenticeship programs, a few years later to follow up to make sure that 

veterans are actually staying there, progressing in their careers, or 

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maybe they need additional help to get over any of those invisible 

wounds they bring back from the theatres of war? 

General WORLEY. I will just respond to that by saying that we 

are working on outcome measures and employment. I am not sure 

about the longer term. Our initial effort is to find and track completion and employment, initial employment. But your point is well 

taken, Congressman, and we need to be looking long-term at that. 

Mr. CORREA. And if I may, ultimately, what we are doing here 

is connected to the VA and services down the road. So I know it 

is a little bit hard to make the jump, but they are all connected 

ultimately. And just some food for thought into how we can maybe 

make that jump and make the system seamless for some of these 

veterans who a few years later find out that, again, these invisible 

wounds come to the front. 

Mr. WESCOTT. You know, one of the things that State Approving 

Agencies would like to do, Congressman—and thank you for that 

question—is, again, to focus more of our efforts in this area. We 

would like to make more visits to apprenticeship sites and able to 

talk with veterans at those sites and find out what is working, and 

also find out, while we are there on that visit, where there may be 

other opportunities that we can also reach out and make others 

aware of this. 

So we do want—we are very much interested in not just the initial approval, but in following up on what is going on after that. 

Mr. CORREA. Mr. Chair, I yield the remainder of my time. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. The gentleman yields. 

I yield myself 5 minutes. 

Tracking results, outcomes is the key for us and for you all to 

know what is working and how we can improve on the programs 

or when we need to move on to another program that will work. 

And so I am always concerned when there is an issue with just collecting data, outcome data, or if the metrics are not the right 

metrics, they are inputs, not outcomes. 

And so, General, tell me what we are collecting now to know if 

this—intuitively, we believe it works. We have an example, a fine 

example here today, but we have got to look at the rest of the country, and we want to reward those people where the engagement is 

working and et cetera. What are you tracking now? What needs to 

be tracked? Give us kind of an update on that. 

General WORLEY. We have been working for some time broadly 

on outcome measures for the whole program. Those have been fairly traditional measures, graduation rates, certificate of completion, 

retention, persistence, those kinds of things. As I testified back in 

the hearing after the GAO report was published, we hadn’t really 

focused much, and the report identified that, on OJT and apprenticeship results. 

So as we have continued to work and refine these things, again, 

we have work underway with the Census Bureau to develop an 

MOU with them to help us look at employment. Data mining in 

our business is a challenge, we will be candid with you. 

So when we move the enrollment—now that we have moved the 

enrollment certification of OJTs and apprenticeships into the VAONCE system, which is what the schools use and the employers 

use now, we will be better able to track completion rates for OJTs 

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and apprenticeships, because that will be right in our system. And 

then we will continue to work on, more importantly, did they get 

the job that they were OJTing for, as an apprentice for, either in 

that company or elsewhere. So it is still a work in progress, Mr. 

Chairman. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. It seems, to your last point, you know, did they 

get the job, and how have they progressed, and now that they have 

this certification that is transferrable, now they are more marketable. And so whether they are at the job where they completed the 

program and then beyond, it seems really straightforward to me. 

And I just—I would encourage you, because it has been 2 years 

since the GAO report. I know how good you are and earnest you 

are to serve. These guys, these are your colleagues, but we cannot 

get excited about, I can’t personally, unless I know something is 

working. And without data, you know, I can’t say that they are all 

like Mr. Marchand. 

So please expedite that so that when we have another discussion, 

you can tell us exactly how things are going in that regard and 

that we, in fact, are collecting data. 

Anything on the GAO front that you think is worth talking about 

in terms of what you believe is on the money and that you have 

already begun the process of implementing so we can make this a 

better program, other than the tracking and the education and promotion? Is there anything else? 

General WORLEY. Nothing else. As you know, there were three 

recommendations. Two of them are closed out. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. I guess I should say anything beyond that that 

you think we need to be doing? 

General WORLEY. Beyond that? Not at this point. I think mention 

has already been made of looking at ways to facilitate national approvals. And I think that would be very helpful, but nothing else 

beyond that. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. I will yield any other time necessary for final 

comments or questions. Mr. Takano? 

Mr. TAKANO. Just briefly. 

Mr. Penski, you looked like you wanted to say something earlier, 

and I don’t think my colleague Mr. Correa saw you. Do you want 

to respond to something he said earlier? 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Did Mr. Correa have his glasses on? 

Mr. CORREA. It does not help much these days. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Go ahead, Mr. Penski. 

Mr. PENSKI. I just wanted to comment, you made mention of our 

veterans who may be struggling from physical or mental scars or 

where are they later on in the program. This goes into tracking a 

little bit that the IUPAT does, but one of the things that I was getting antsy in my seat over was we are creating a veterans’ mentoring program for our veterans coming into our training centers. 

It is no different than our VFWs or American Legions. 

These veterans, now they are carrying whatever they had from 

their time in service, and they are starting this new career into 

whatever trade it may be, getting into a union, meeting new brothers and sisters within the union. They have concerns and issues, 

and we need to mentor them along into the family of the organization. 

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But they also—what we are creating, and General President 

Rigmaiden is looking at this program. We have a mentoring program, but not for veterans at this point. Solid into a training program. But we want them to be able to sit and express issues that 

they had or frustrations that they might have had on a job site 

that might have just been ready to send them over an edge. So we 

are looking at that. 

Mr. Chairman, I do want to comment about the tracking. As 

these veterans come into the program and they make application, 

on their application it says apprentice. When they go through their 

training program and complete and become a journey worker, their 

status goes to journeyman. They receive their certificates from the 

Department of Labor of completion, and they have their certificate 

from the IUPAT, which is transferrable to any IUPAT craft within 

the IUPAT. 

So we know if they are being dropped. We know if they are being 

suspended. We can track it through our integrated management 

system through the IUPAT, which cycles up from our district councils. So this is really building—and our general president is very 

huge on requesting from me constantly about how many veterans 

are we hiring? Where are we with our veteran employment? Where 

are we with getting them through the system? 

So I just wanted to add to that, that under the direction of our 

general president, this is an issue that is very near and dear to 

him, because, again, we are bringing in new family members, and 

we want to make sure we are just not bringing them in and say, 

have a great life; bring them in and nurture them along throughout 

the process. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Will the gentlemen gentleman yield? I just want 

to say that is a— 

Mr. TAKANO. Of course, I will. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Thanks for bringing that up, because, again, I 

don’t care what the program is or what the hearing is about. It 

seems to me that that becomes my biggest frustration, is that I 

don’t have any instrumentation to guide this thing. 

And so the fact that you guys are doing it, as the union, what 

can I say? Great job. And I would expect that the same attention 

to those metrics are applied to all parties sitting at the table so 

that we can, again, ascertain what is working, what is not, and 

how we can turn the dials to improve it. That is all we want to do. 

That is all you want to do. But without information, it makes it 

really hard. So great job. 

Mr. TAKANO. Mr. Chairman, just briefly as I wrap up. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. Sure. 

Mr. TAKANO. Thank you so much for this hearing. I share your 

concerns about the metrics and the follow-up. 

And both of you, both Charter and the IUPAT, are great 

exemplars of how you track and you take care of your apprentices. 

And, Dr. Wescott, I hope that makes you more excited about trying 

to get this going some more, because if the metrics are good, we 

should really be doing all we can to get more apprentices. And I 

think this opportunity really isn’t as well known among our veterans as it ought to be. 

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And, Mr. Chairman, I hope we can get together and figure out 

how, if it is funding a line item for more marketing, you know, I 

think there is a lot of value in getting people into the trades and 

getting people into tracks that aren’t necessarily having to go to a 

4-year university, at least not right away. And I think not only veterans, not only the veteran population, but our country is hungry 

for these kinds of opportunities. 

Now I yield back, Mr. Chairman. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. I want to thank the gentleman for his comments, as well as Representative Correa, and our panelists for your 

time. 

Mr. Correa, last comments. 

Mr. CORREA. Mr. Chairman, if I may have a couple of closing 

comments. 

I just wanted to reiterate again my thanks for your leadership 

on this issue, to our panelists for being here and doing the good 

work you do. And, Mr. Chairman, I just want to let you know that 

in my district, we do have a lot of veterans and they are not going 

to go to 4-year colleges. A lot of them just want to get that goodpaying job to support their families. That is what this country owes 

them. I think through your leadership here, I think we can come 

up with some good common sense solutions to these challenges of 

giving our vets what they have earned, which is a good-paying job 

in this country. So look forward to continuing to work with you on 

these issues, sir. 

Mr. ARRINGTON. I heartily agree with my colleagues. I am always 

a little nervous when I am getting so agreeable with these guys, 

but, you know, what can I say? Again, we want our veterans to 

succeed. There is a great need in this country and a gap in skills 

and a need for labor. 

And on this day when my colleagues and I on the other side of 

the aisle have been talking about making it easier for capital to 

flow efficiently to new investments and opportunities, to create 

higher wages through tax reform, and that is just one part of the 

productivity equation. The other is labor. And what better story 

than filling that labor need with our veterans, but they have to be 

trained and they have to have charter communications companies 

step up, and they have to have the leadership of the VA being vigilant to make it easy for charters and for the veterans. So there is 

not a doubt in my mind that every one of us here involved in this 

discussion wants that to happen. 

A lot of these ideas I notice in my short time here will come with 

the folks on the front lines, the folks on the panel. So please, again, 

bring those ideas to us and don’t be bashful and, again, especially 

when it is a bright line that you have a legal barrier. And I know 

we will work together in a bipartisan way to solve problems here. 

That is what we are all here for. 

With that, I want to remind all Members that you have 5 legislative days to revise and extend your remarks and include any extraneous material in the record of today’s hearing. Hearing no objection, so ordered. 

If there is nothing further, this hearing is adjourned. 

[Whereupon, at 3:17 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] 

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A P P E N D I X 

Prepared Statement of Robert M. Worley II 

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member O’Rourke, and Members of the 

Subcommittee. I am pleased to be here today to discuss the Department of Veterans 

Affairs (VA) education benefits programs. My testimony will focus on VA’s administration of apprenticeship training under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. 

The Post-9/11 GI Bill (Chapter 33) was enacted with the passage of Public Law 

(P.L.) 110–252, effective August 1, 2009. Chapter 33 provides eligible Veterans, 

Servicemembers, dependents, and survivors with educational assistance, generally 

in the form of tuition and fees, monthly housing allowance, and a stipend for booksand-supplies - all to assist these men and women in reaching their educational or 

vocational goals. P.L. 111–377, signed into law on January 4, 2011, amended the 

Post-9/11 GI Bill and expanded the benefits and access to programs available to eligible participants. The Post-9/11 GI Bill is the most utilized of VA’s educational assistance programs. 

Background on VA Apprenticeship Programs 

Apprenticeship programs are available for Veterans using their VA education benefits, including the Post-9/11 GI Bill. These programs allow Veterans to learn a 

trade or skill through training, while simultaneously earning a paycheck. A Veteran 

generally enters into a training contract for a specific period with an employer, and 

at the end of the training period the Veteran typically earns an apprenticeship program completion certificate and job certifications, in addition to ‘‘journeyworker’’ status. 

Veterans pursuing apprenticeship training under the Post-9/11 GI Bill may also 

receive a monthly housing allowance in addition to their apprenticeship wages. The 

housing allowance is based on a percentage of the Department of Defense (DoD) 

Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH) for an E–5 with dependents (based on the location of the employer), payable at the rate of 100 percent during the first six months; 

80 percent during the second six months; 60 percent during the third six months; 

40 percent during the fourth six months; and 20 percent during any remaining 

months of training. Participants may also receive up to $83 per month for books and 

supplies. 

Approval and Participation in VA Apprenticeship Programs 

The law provides that VA may pay educational assistance to eligible Veterans and 

other individuals participating in approved training programs. Department of Labor 

(DOL) Registered Apprenticeships are ‘‘deemed approved,’’ as are those approved by 

DOL or State Apprenticeship Agencies recognized by DOL, subject to the requirements in Section 3672(b)(2)(A)(iii) of Title 38 U.S.C., and unregistered apprenticeship programs may be approved as long as the criteria in section 3687 of title 38 

U.S.C. are met. State Approving Agencies (SAAs) overseeing education and training 

programs for Veterans are responsible for approving most non-Federal apprenticeship programs in their respective states. Similarly, VA has authority to approve apprenticeship programs offered by Federal agencies, including DOL registered programs offered in multiple states by carriers directly engaged in interstate commerce. 

Partnerships 

VA works with SAAs to streamline and standardize the approval process for DOL 

Registered Apprenticeship programs. SAAs must utilize VA’s standard application 

process for employers seeking GI Bill approval of DOL Registered Apprenticeship 

programs. VA also works closely with DOL staff to ensure Registered Apprenticeship sponsors understand the approval process for GI Bill benefits. This includes 

participating in teleconferences with employers, providing information as necessary, 

and sharing SAA contact information. In November 2015, VA developed and published an informational guide for employers offering, or considering offering, On-theleonard.horne on VACREP0180 with DISTILLER

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Job (OJT) or Apprenticeship training to Veterans and their beneficiaries. The guide 

can be found at https://www.benefits.va.gov/GIBILL/docs/job—aids/OJT— 

APPInfoGuide.pdf. A second edition was published in July 2017. 

VA continues to work with the National Association of State Approving Agencies 

(NASAA) to ensure SAAs are aware of participating employers that have received 

national approval as well as any pending approval concerns. There are some challenges in the approval process for employers because training, at times, is taking 

place in numerous states, and VA’s regulations require that the State Approving 

Agency where the training takes place may approve the course for VA training. 

To promote outreach to employers that had received registration and approval of 

their apprenticeship programs from DOL, VA requested that SAAs contact those 

employers in their states to ensure that the employers are aware of the advantages 

of GI Bill program approval for Veterans. 

Outreach 

VA promotes available apprenticeship opportunities through the use of various 

platforms and strategies. For example, VA leverages the Community Veteran Engagement Boards, and Office of Economic Opportunity personnel to engage in nation-wide awareness of the economic impact of apprenticeships. In addition to traditional approaches, VA is utilizing social media outlets to provide greater visibility 

and enhance the awareness of these programs. 

Conclusion 

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I would be pleased to respond to any questions that you or 

the other Members of the Subcommittee may have. 

f 

Prepared Statement of Dr. Joseph W. Wescott 

Introduction 

Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O’Rourke and members of the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, I am pleased to appear before you today on 

behalf of the 50 member state agencies of the National Association of State Approving Agencies (NASAA) and appreciate the opportunity to provide comments on ‘‘How 

to Improve Access to GI Bill Approved Apprenticeship Programs and How these Programs Benefit Veterans.’’ We particularly look forward to discussing with you how 

State Approving Agencies (SAAs) interact with the Department of Veterans Affairs 

(VA) and Department of Labor (DOL) as well as apprenticeship providers, to approve and administer Programs. We also wish to discuss ways in which we, and the 

VA, could better inform eligible men and women about the advantages of using their 

GI Bill benefits in an approved apprenticeship program. Finally, we will suggest 

ways to remove hurdles and how we can work together with our partners and Congress to improve this important program, while better ensuring meaningful employment through apprenticeship programs for veterans. 

For hundreds of years, Apprenticeship (APP) and On-the Job (OJT) type training 

has been an important means of educating family members and new employees. Our 

nation has a long history of valuing ‘‘learning by doing’’ that stretches back to young 

Benjamin Franklin in the colonial era and includes Booker T. Washington’s efforts 

at then Tuskegee Institute in the last century. The impact of that training on our 

people’s lives and upon our nation’s history needs no further explanation. Such impact continues today in the successful transition of our military service members to 

civilian life. In fact, for those of us who served, OJT or ‘‘hands on’’ training played 

a critical role in our preparation as soldiers. One could read and discuss the assembly and disassembly of the M–16 A1 Rifle, but until you actually performed it, for 

most of us, it remained a mystery. Hence, OJT and Apprenticeship are methods of 

training that our military population is well acquainted with, and for many of them, 

the type of instruction from which they can best benefit. 

Mr. Chairman, we heartily agree with you that, working with our VA and DOL 

partners, we can improve in real and substantive ways the manner we approve and 

administer apprenticeship programs. Likewise, we know there are ways that we can 

better inform eligible men and women about the apprenticeship and On-The-Job 

training programs. We will address outreach and information sharing first. 

Informing our Veterans 

We strongly agree that outreach efforts need to be improved and we still believe 

that State Approving Agencies can provide a major part of that effort. SAAs are alleonard.horne on VACREP0180 with DISTILLER

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ready a part of the process in that we approve and oversee all non-federal OJT and 

apprenticeship programs. With an adjustment in our contractual requirements, we 

could provide a more robust outreach to potential employers of veterans and their 

dependents. For example, from Fiscal Year 2008 until Fiscal Year 2011, SAAs, 

working with our VA partners, increased the number of approved Apprenticeship 

and OJT facilities with at least one active veteran or eligible dependent from 4,471 

to 5,285. However, since then, due to our shared focus on oversight, particularly 

compliance surveys, the number of approved active facilities decreased. In FY 2015, 

there were only 3,551, or 1,700 less than Fiscal Year 2011. And in FY2016, the 

number of facilities was only 4,221, or 1,064 less than the high point of 2011. We 

believe the reason for this decrease is that in the past several years, we and our 

VA partners have been tasked with focusing heavily on oversight of institutions. 

This valuable work has been accomplished somewhat at the expense of our ability 

to provide outreach for the OJT and Apprenticeship Program. As you can see, during a time of unprecedented growth in the utilization of GI Bill benefits and a 

marked increase in the interest of training providers in offering approved programs, 

our ability to approve programs, supervise facilities, and conduct meaningful outreach has been constrained by limited resources and our joint focus on oversight. 

While we are deeply appreciative of this Congress, and particularly the leadership 

in this Committee, in providing additional funding for SAAs, it is important that 

we now renew our focus on outreach to our nation’s veterans (and potential employers) about this unique program. 

In the past several years, despite limited time and resources, SAAs have been creative and innovative in attempting to reach employers and veterans with the message that there is another path to employment for them other than college. And one 

that could prove equally rewarding. For example, the Missouri SAA continues to 

produce and distribute a CD, aptly titled, ‘‘The GI Bill-It’s Not Just for College.’’ 

This 8 minute CD reflects the perspective of the veteran, the employer, the VA and 

the SAA and it is used by many National Guard units, employers and SAAs across 

the nation. Prior to the recent restructuring of the Transition Assistance Program, 

this CD was a staple at many TAP briefings in the Central and Eastern regions. 

In addition, like many SAAs, Missouri publishes a monthly newsletter. And Missouri is not alone. Illinois, which had 357 approved and active apprenticeship and 

OJT facilities last year, has a vigorous outreach program involving add-a-stop visits 

to employers, along with presenting to statewide apprenticeship meetings and to 

every law enforcement and correctional officer academy class in Illinois. The Illinois 

SAA is also actively involved in Illinois Joining Forces, a consortium of employers, 

not-for-profit organizations, and state agencies interested in ensuring veterans make 

a successful transition from the military to the civilian world. Another example is 

Ohio. The Ohio SAA performs outreach by sitting as an advisor on their State Apprenticeship Council and by providing briefings during the Ohio State Apprenticeship Annual Conference. 

Further, the Washington SAA is an active participant in the Veterans Resource 

Employment Group (or VERG), aimed at promoting employment of veterans and 

program approval of Apprenticeships and OJT programs in State Government along 

with regular participation at the Washington Department of Labor and Industry Apprenticeship Council Meetings. As a result of these connections, several new innovative registered Apprenticeship programs have been recently approved in Washington 

State. APPRENTI (based in Seattle)- which provides training in the high demand 

(and high paying) careers of Database Administrator, IT Support Professional, Network Security Administrator, and Software Developer-was approved in February 

2017 and recently enrolled its first veteran apprentice. As stated on APPRENTI’s 

website: ‘‘Your paid training will be specifically tailored to you and a high-tech position will be waiting for you when you finish. If you thought your dream job was out 

of reach, think again.’’ We need to get the word out to transitioning veterans about 

these new high tech apprenticeships. In a different, but equally innovative vein, the 

Washington SAA has also recently approved Medical and Dental Assistant Apprenticeships for the Washington Association of Community & Migrant Health Centers. 

These non-traditional apprenticeships are aimed at serving culturally diverse populations in rural and urban communities with limited access to healthcare. This Registered Apprenticeship program provides a paid training alternative to a college certification program. 

Meanwhile, in Arizona, the SAA Director holds a seat on the Western Apprenticeship Coordinators Association of Arizona Council (WACA). Through the WACA 

Council the SAA provides guidance on the SAA approval and certification process 

to the approved Apprenticeship programs and seeks feedback on problems institutions are having with the VA certification process. The Arizona SAA also solicits any 

non-approved Apprenticeship programs by meeting directly with employers and disleonard.horne on VACREP0180 with DISTILLER

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cussing the benefits of approval. All state legislative changes for Arizona’s Apprenticeship programs are shared and discussed at WACA and the Steering Committee 

meeting. Already this year, this SAA has followed up on and issued approvals for 

at least 30 new entities to date. 

We also are proud of the recent approval actions with national employers-such as 

General Dynamics, Union Pacific and Spectrum-that have been initiated by member 

SAAs that affect many states. NASAA is excited about those opportunities, but, Mr. 

Chairman, we would suggest that VA conduct national outreach efforts, while the 

SAAs should remain focused on state and local outreach efforts, which best meet 

the needs of their particular state. We would encourage the VA to place more emphasis on their website regarding the use of the GI Bill for APP/OJT opportunities 

and we can do likewise on our State SAA websites. Additionally, we should continue 

to work closely with State Departments of Veterans Affairs and other local agencies 

or institutions. In North Carolina, recently I met with the President of our community college system to talk about how we might partner with them to promote apprenticeships affiliated with the community colleges. Further, we would suggest 

that outreach efforts by the VA and SAAs should focus on all current chapters of 

the GI Bill. In several states, such as Illinois, more veterans in APP/OJT programs 

ostensibly use other chapters such as Chapter 30 and 1606 rather than just Chapter 

33, the Post 9/11 GI Bill. In certain instances, Chapter 30 provides a higher monthly 

benefit payment than the monthly housing allowance and books and supplies stipend provided under Chapter 33. It is important to understand that what makes 

Chapter 33 more attractive at an IHL-the fact that the veteran’s institution may 

receive payments for tuition and fees-is not a factor with OJT and Apprenticeship 

programs. 

We would like to be able to conduct more outreach and technical assistance visits, 

and indeed we have begun doing some. Earlier, in discussing the Illinois SAA’s outreach efforts, I used the phrase ‘‘Add-A–Stop.’’ The phrase ‘‘Add-A–Stop’’ refers to 

a practice used by SAAs for over 15 years. An ‘‘Add-A–Stop’’ is an extra stop at a 

potential APP/OJT facility while traveling to a currently approved education or 

training facility for approval or oversight purposes. This practice maximizes efficiency in travel costs while increasing the VA/SAA footprint for the APP/OJT program. 

With an appropriate shift in our focus, SAAs would like to be able to visit more 

active On-the-Job or Apprenticeship training programs on a regular basis. During 

these visits, we would be able to discuss the approval of the program, the goals of 

the program, and assist programs with VA paperwork issues and veteran payment 

issues. We also could speak to veterans enrolled in these programs, providing them 

with the opportunity to tell us how their training is going or if they are having any 

issues with payments. Ultimately, such visits strengthen outreach activities in the 

field of On-the-Job and Apprenticeship training programs, as these visits provide 

employers and veterans with the confidence to recommend this program to other 

employers and veterans, as well as provide us with information about companion 

industries or companies that might also be interested in hearing more about the Apprenticeship/OJT programs. 

We must point out, however, that current law limits the ability of SAAs to be reimbursed under their contract for outreach efforts unless the effort can be linked 

to a travel expense. Standard outreach and marketing strategies such as news 

media advertising and social media advertising cannot be reimbursed. NASAA recommends 38 USC 3674 be amended to add an additional category of reimbursement 

for outreach and marketing. 

Administrative Challenges 

NASAA has long sought the automation of the APP/OJT process and claims processing. We certainly understand and empathize with the challenges faced by our VA 

partners in the automation arena, but it is truly time to replace the fax machine 

and the US Postal Service as the means of delivering claim forms. Some headway 

has been made with the recent addition of apprenticeship and OJT enrollment certifications to the VA ONCE online system, but it is still impossible for employers 

to submit monthly certifications electronically. Complete automation would not only 

provide veterans with a more timely payment of benefits, but would provide VA and 

SAAs with the ability to accurately track how many veterans are enrolled in approved APP/OJT programs and how many active APP/OJT programs (a program 

where a veteran has received a payment) are in the system. Two years ago, a GAO 

report stated that there were 2700 employers and apprenticeship sponsors approved 

to train Post 9/11 GI Bill veterans. But during this same time frame, numbers submitted by SAAs and confirmed by VA indicated that there were roughly over 3500 

active approved facilities. This SAA/VA number supports our earlier statement that 

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many veterans enrolled in APP/OJT programs use other chapters of the GI Bill, not 

just the Post 9/11 GI Bill. Moreover, the VA frequently contacts SAAs to determine 

the name of a veteran in an APP/OJT program, as their manual systems for tracking veterans are so cumbersome to search. In the end, both of these examples illustrate the challenges faced by the VA given their present level of automation and 

their continued need for further automation of APP/OJT claims processing. 

NASAA recommends that until the VA is able to establish a full-fledged electronic 

system for APP/OJT processing and payments, the VA should consider reducing administrative burdens on employers with approved APP/OJT programs by allowing 

them to certify all veterans enrolled in the GI Bill program on one enrollment form, 

instead of separate forms for each veteran. The use of such a form would provide 

employers with immediate relief from the administrative burdens of the APP/OJT 

claims processing system. This document should be a protected form requiring only 

the certifying official’s signature. The current form requires both the certifying official and veteran’s signature, which has resulted in veterans acquiring the form, and 

in a few cases inappropriately self-certifying themselves for benefits. Moreover, the 

use of such a form would reduce the amount of paperwork required to be processed 

by the VA and mitigate potential fraud. NASAA recommends eliminating the statutory requirement for two signatures on monthly time sheets found in 38 U.S.C. section 3680(c). A reliable and valid automation system remains critical to the eventual 

improvement of this program. 

Pending Legislation and Recommended Innovation 

NASAA supports the efforts of Congress to modify existing law to clarify the authority of State Approving Agencies to approve registered apprenticeship programs 

that are based or headquartered in their respective state with job sites in multiple 

states. This model already exists within our Joint Apprenticeship and Training 

Committee (JATCs) as well as in the manner we approve distance education institutions, and the proposed legislation in Congress now simply represents a common 

sense extension of the model. NASAA has worked closely with Congressman Ro 

Khanna from California’s 17th congressional district and we are excited about the 

potential of this new legislation to remove hurdles facing national apprenticeships, 

while continuing to provide SAA oversight and protections for veterans enrolled in 

these training programs. 

NASAA recommends that Congress provide parity between public and private sector employees by eliminating wage progression requirement for OJT programs that 

are 24 months or less. 

NASAA further recommends that language be added to 38 U.S.C. section 

3680A(4) to exempt the related training portion of an OJT or apprenticeship program. Many of our currently approved training programs utilize high-quality, industry-recognized related training that may meet the strict definition of independent 

study and would need to be disapproved. Clearly, this was not the intent of Congress and we seek their assistance in clarifying this section. 

NASAA recommends that Congress clarify that a starting wage equal or greater 

than a journeyworker wage does not disqualify someone from participating in the 

program. Indeed, the trainee does not have a marketable skill until the training is 

completed, regardless of amount of the hourly wage. We believe it was the intent 

of Congress to provide this benefit throughout the training program, as benefits remain available to use, until that training has concluded. 

We would strongly recommend that the VA, as they have done in other areas, 

partner with NASAA in the development of better outreach and a refocusing of our 

joint efforts to reach veterans with the message of the value of these programs. This 

would certainly be an opportunity for our collaborative Joint Advisory Committee, 

comprised of representatives from both VA and NASAA, to undertake and oversee 

this project. Once again, NASAA stands ready to implement a jointly administered 

pilot project as we have in the Mercedes Benz program. Such efforts would provide 

all stakeholders with solid data to see if the anecdotal evidence that already exists 

is true. That anecdotal evidence suggests that when compared to other forms of education and training, those who engage in OJT and Apprenticeship programs have 

higher completion rates, higher placement rates, and higher retention rates. All at 

a fraction of the cost associated with many four-year degrees. We also believe that 

programs such as the Mercedes Benz pilot program are beneficial to our veterans 

and communities and we wish to point out that it is imperative that the approved 

standards for these programs meet all applicable requirements of Title 29 U.S.C. 

and 29 CFR, in particular 29.2 Definitions and 29.5 Standards of Apprenticeship. 

Conclusion 

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Mr. Chairman, the Apprenticeship (and OJT) programs under the various chapters of the GI Bill provide a tremendous opportunity to put our Nation’s veterans 

back to work quickly in meaningful and rewarding careers that are needed in our 

economy. We applaud the efforts of this Committee, and our VA partners and stakeholders to improve administrative capabilities, overcome challenges to innovation, 

and to increase outreach. We look forward to collaborating and partnering with the 

VA in support of many of these recommendations. 

Today, fifty SAAs in 48 states and the territory of Puerto Rico, composed of approximately 175 professional and support personnel, are supervising over 14,494 active facilities with 115,000 programs (including over 4,221 APP/OJT programs). We 

remain strongly committed to working closely with our VA partners, VSO stakeholders, and education and training facilities to ensure that veterans have access 

to quality training programs delivered in an appropriate manner by reputable employers. For we all share one purpose, a better future for our veterans and their 

dependents. Mr. Chairman, I pledge to you that we will not fail in our critical mission and in our commitment to safeguard the public trust, to protect the GI Bill and 

to defend the future of those who have so nobly defended us. I thank you again for 

this opportunity and I look forward to answering any questions that you or committee members may have. 

f 

Prepared Statement of Paul Marchand 

Good afternoon, Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O’Rourke and distinguished members of the subcommittee, I am Paul Marchand, Executive Vice President and Chief Human Resources Officer at Charter Communications. 

Thank you for inviting me here this morning to discuss a topic that is vital, not 

just to Charter, but to the country: improving economic opportunities for our brave 

men and women through GI Bill-approved apprenticeship programs. 

We applaud the committee’s history of bipartisanship and commitment to improving the lives of veterans, and we are proud to give back to people who have done 

so much for this country. 

Let me begin with a little about who we are. 

Charter is America’s fastest growing TV, internet and voice company. We’re proud 

to serve more than 26 million customers in 41 states. 

We offer the same, simple, straightforward, high-value products using a consistent 

and uniform approach to over 50 million homes and businesses. 

We serve diverse customers in big cities and rural communities in places like 

Texas, Florida, Ohio California and Indiana. 

In total, we have over 92,000 employees and, since 2012, we’ve hired more than 

19,000 employees in the U.S. We are committed to hiring 20,000 more by 2020, primarily by ending our reliance on offshore call centers. 

Every day, our highly-skilled, diverse and U.S.-based workforce helps us deliver 

better products and better services across our footprint to our customers. 

An example of this is in McAllen, Texas, where we just opened a new,-state-ofthe-art, fully bilingual Spanish-English language call center designed to serve our 

growing number of Spanish speaking customers. When it is fully staffed at the end 

of next year, we will have 600 employees there providing support for billing and TV 

and Internet services for customers who prefer to speak to us in Spanish. Previously 

calls from these customers were handled at call centers located outside the U.S. 

We are proud to say that veterans are a critical group in our workforce. 

As a result of active recruitment and expanded outreach, Charter employs nearly 

11,900 veterans - 13% of our total workforce. In fact, Charter’s 13% veteran workforce is essentially double the government guideline of 7% for veteran hiring. 

This year alone - from January to August - we’ve hired approximately 4,000 veterans and we are committed to increasing our overall veteran hiring by 5% over the 

next three years. 

Our efforts to increase veteran hiring are greatly enhanced by the advice and 

council of Dr. Clifford Stanley. Cliff is a retired general of the Marine Corps who 

formerly served as the Under Secretary of Defense for Personnel and Readiness. We 

are extremely fortunate to have him as a member of Charter’s External Diversity 

and Inclusion Council. 

Veterans’ skills translate well to our company 

Our veterans are highly skilled problem solvers. 

They bring efficiency and a mission-oriented mindset that is effective across all 

business units and in varying levels of the company including executive leadership. 

These are veterans like Jermaine Jackson who served in the U.S. Army, was 

hired as a technician, and enrolled in our Broadband Technician Apprenticeship 

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Program. Since joining our team, Jermaine has been promoted to our highest level 

of residential field technician. 

Darrel Hegar graduated high school and enlisted in the US Air Force completing 

five years of service in the military as a Sergeant during Operation Desert Storm. 

Following his military career, he started a computer company with the skills he 

learned in the Air Force. He subsequently joined the former Time Warner Cable in 

2015 as VP of Marketing and is now, after earning two promotions, the Regional 

Vice President of the Carolinas for Charter Communications Field Operations leading a team of over 3,000 employees across 3 states. 

Employees like Jermaine and Darrel make us a better, stronger company. And, 

we believe, it’s even better for the people we serve. 

That is why we have several programs and partnerships devoted to attracting, 

hiring and retaining veterans. 

Recruit 

First, we work hard to recruit veterans by going to where service members start 

their transition out of military service and into civilian life- on military bases and 

in the communities in which they are located, which often times are communities 

we serve. 

We understand that the transition to civilian life is just that-a transition. 

It is not something you start the day of your discharge from active duty. For us 

to be successful in our recruitment, it must start before that. 

That’s why Charter joined a new Career Resource Center that opened this July 

at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. 

The center - located on the base - helps companies like ours recruit, train and 

hire service members who are finishing their military service. Through this partnership with Ft. Bragg, we provide 4 weeks of training to active duty men and women 

who are in the final stage of their military service. This program allows Charter to 

begin a relationship with men and women while they are still on active duty. It provides them a taste of what it is like to work as a broadband technician and is the 

start of a pipeline into our Broadband Technician Apprenticeship Program and an 

eventual career at Charter. We’re excited the first class will begin on November 6th. 

Because our relationship at Ft. Bragg is under the Career Skills Program we can 

also offer job shadowing, internships and skills training. This program also allows 

military personnel to ‘‘test drive’’ new jobs and helps us to recruit service men and 

women who are both qualified and interested. 

We are also identifying and recruiting talented soon-to-be veterans through the 

U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s Hiring Our Heroes Corporate Fellowship Program. 

Service members who are making the transition to civilian life gain hands-on experience working in the private sector, as well as management training, in a 12-week 

fellowship. Most participants are senior enlisted service members or junior officers 

and 85% of Fellows have a Bachelor’s Degree. Working with Supporting Base, Ft. 

Carson Colorado, we recently welcomed our first Fellows into our Technology Services Group in Denver, a group led by Group Vice President, Marti Moore, a former 

member of the U.S. Air Force and military champion herself. 

We look forward to offering the Hiring Our Heroes Corporate Fellowship Program 

in more Charter service areas in partnership with Ft. Carson, Camp Pendleton, Ft. 

Bliss, Ft. Hood and Joint Base San Antonio. 

We view these recruiting initiatives as a success, and we are interested in working with other bases to set up similar partnerships. By meeting our soon-to-be-veterans where they are, we can better engage them and help put them on a path to 

success. 

Train 

Importantly, we don’t just want to hire veterans, we want to help them build on 

the technical skills they gained from the military and begin a second career at Charter. 

This is where our Broadband Technician Apprenticeship Program, a key focus of 

this hearing, comes in. 

This highly regarded program certified by the U.S. Department of Labor (USDOL) 

provides newly hired broadband installer technicians the opportunity to receive Apprenticeship Certification. 

Enrollees in the Broadband Technician Apprenticeship Program complete thousands of hours of on-the-job training and an extensive classroom curriculum over 

four years. 

Qualified veterans who were discharged in the last 10 years can secure GI Bill 

Benefits by completing the program’s qualified curriculum and on-the-job training, 

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putting them in position to possibly earn tax-free money in addition to their Charter 

paycheck. 

Today, over 1,000 technicians are currently enrolled in five states that are home 

to large military bases: Missouri, Nebraska, North Carolina, South Carolina and 

Texas. 

One graduate of the program Fabian Luna was hired as an installation technician 

in 2006 just out of the United States Army. A graduate of the apprenticeship program, Fabian has been promoted five times and currently works as a Field Technician Supervisor in Morrisville, NC. 

Scott Feltmeyer, who also completed the program and now works at Charter as 

a Spectrum Business Technician, is still serving our country in the Illinois National 

Guard. Scott comes from a military family and he believes the same traits that 

serve him well in the military - integrity, a can-do attitude, and the ability to operate independently or as part of a team,- translate well to Charter’s workforce. He 

has been with Charter for five years and appreciates that the company enables him 

to continue to serve his country. 

The Broadband Technician Apprenticeship Program has been so successful in producing the highly skilled broadband techs that provide technical services in our customers’ homes and businesses that we are working with the U.S. Department of 

Labor to expand it into a national program. Last May at our technical training center in St. Ann, MO, we were joined by Governor Eric Greitens, a decorated veteran 

and founder of the veterans’ non-profit organization The Mission Continues, along 

with Congresswoman Ann Wagner, to announce our intent to offer the program 

across our 41 state footprint. 

Our apprenticeship program leads to good paying jobs with generous benefits, and 

these technicians become valued and essential members of our workforce. 

Retain 

Once we recruit and train our veteran employees, we work hard to retain them. 

Our goal here is simple: create the best possible working environment for our employees by offering competitive pay, robust medical and retirement benefits with opportunities for continued career advancement 

Charter’s veteran community is a tightly knit group-and we’re proud to have 14 

company sponsored employee network chapters with over 600 members. 

This important employee resource group, known as VETNET, is made up of veterans, family members of veterans, and other employees interested in veteran and 

military-related issues. It collaborates with Charter’s senior leadership to provide 

mentoring for the growth and development of its members and offers employees opportunities to do work in support of veterans and their families. 

For Charter, it goes a long way towards ensuring open communication between 

our veteran employees and the company. 

Finally, we recognize one of the biggest challenges veterans can face transitioning 

to civilian life is the relocation of family. Next week, Charter will officially join the 

Department of Defense’s Military Spouse Employment Partnership (MSEP). This 

valuable partnership will facilitate recruitment of this skilled, diverse and unique 

group of professional military spouses. We’re going to be participating in recruitment activities with MSEP across our footprint. Through our work with groups like 

the Partnership for Youth Success and Recruit Military, we are excited about the 

recruiting opportunities this new partnership will bring. 

Conclusion 

According to the Veterans Administration, by 2020 there will be more than 3.4 

million veterans who served in post 9/11 conflicts, and 1.8 million of these veterans 

will be under the age of 34. 

In the last few years, we’ve made a lot of progress making sure these veterans 

find jobs. According to the Department of Labor, in August, veteran unemployment 

was at 3.7%, the lowest it has been since 2007. 

But this is no time for us to be complacent, as too many veterans continue to face 

barriers to finding steady well-paying jobs with benefits. 

Moving forward, we have a clear sense of what needs to happen to reach our commitment to hire 20,000 additional workers by 2020, with veterans becoming a growing percentage of our workforce. We will do this by: 

• Growing our presence on bases to ensure we’re reaching veterans before they 

leave active duty 

• Expanding partnerships with key military and veterans organizations, like the 

VFW and Hiring Our Heroes, among many others 

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• Ensuring that when veterans are hired, it is not just a job, but they are retained and given opportunities to grow and develop careers • And lastly, helping to improve the timelines and harmonization with the Department of Labor and other partnering agencies 

Our veterans served us at home and abroad at great sacrifice to themselves and 

their families. Today, thousands of men and women are still in harm’s way protecting us. 

We owe it to them to make sure that when they leave active duty, they have careers that they can continue to be proud of and that can support their families with 

good benefits and real pathways to advancement. 

With more men and women leaving the military every day, we don’t have a moment to lose. 

I thank the committee for your time and look forward to answering any questions 

you have. 

f 

Prepared Statement of Dan Penski 

Chairman Arrington and Ranking Member Rep. O’Rourke, thank you for the 

chance to share our perspective on the many great opportunities for veterans in the 

construction and building trades. I am grateful to be with you today at the Economic Opportunity Subcommittee of the House Veterans Affairs Committee to discuss a timely and important topic. My name is Dan Penski. I serve as Special Assistant to the General President of the International Union of Painters and Allied 

Trades, Mr. Kenneth Rigmaiden. He sends his apologies, as he was unable to sit 

before you today. 

Founded in 1887, the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades (IUPAT) 

represents men and women in the United States and Canada who work in the Finishing Trades. Our members are the highly skilled men and women who painted 

the Capitol Dome and installed the glass exterior of Apple’s new headquarters. We 

do the gritty work of blasting failing lead paint off bridges and water tanks and recoating those structures with modern finishes that will extend their useful life. Our 

members also do highly skilled new construction, installing glass exteriors that take 

advantage of modern materials that make possible the most energy efficient structures ever built. And, they apply the finishing touches, paint, wall coverings and 

flooring of all types, that make interior spaces both beautiful and pleasant places 

to work and live. 

In our industry our work is termed as the Finishing Trades - Industrial & Commercial Painting, Drywall Finishing, Glazing & Glass Work, Sign & Display and 

Floor Covering Installation, and many more successful careers in the construction 

industry. Leaders in our organization work to make sure our signatory contractoremployers have the skilled workforce that they need to continue building and maintaining our communities and infrastructure. 

To maintain a leading edge in our industry, we utilize our Finishing Trades Institute (FTI) which is the education fund associated with the International Union of 

Painters and Allied Trades and the Finishing Contractors Association, the association of signatory employers. The FTI’s core purpose is to develop and expand a 

qualified and competitive workforce for the finishing trades industries and oversee 

the apprenticeship-training program where those who wish to enter our trades learn 

their craft. The FTI not only provides the necessary skills to do the job right the 

first time but also provides the training to do it safely. 

I could not speak about the IUPAT FTI without discussing our apprentices. Apprenticeship programs provide an affordable education that does not leave its participants with one penny of debt. To the contrary, our apprenticeship programs are 

linked to jobs in the private construction industry that earn a living wage while 

learning the skills that will create a lifetime of opportunity. Some folks might not 

want to go to college so they look for a job outside of the normal college-to-job pipeline. We see jobs in the trades as an Option A rather than Option B career paths 

that pays family-sustaining wages without what could be a four-year financial 

slump. 

As practitioners of the construction trades, we must consider that the future of 

our industry is rooted in core skills but assisted by technology; our apprenticeship 

programs are already working to stay ahead of the technology curve by providing 

state of the art training facilities are more. 

Pathways to apprenticeship programs are critical to building the workforce of the 

future, especially at a time when many in the industry are using terms such as 

‘‘Labor Shortage’’. If the U.S. Government is serious about creating jobs in the prileonard.horne on VACREP0180 with DISTILLER

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vate sector, then it must provide training that leads to high-wage jobs such as those 

in the trades by its using purchasing power to drive apprenticeship utilization. 

Furthermore, a portion of the General President’s work portfolio is to carry out 

outreach to Veterans, whether that be nine volunteers from IUPAT District Council 

57 painting recreation and common areas at a homeless shelter in the Pittsburgh 

area that houses support services for homeless veterans or educating vets on the 

job opportunities in the trades. I spend my time assisting the General President by 

working to see that Veterans consistently have across the board access to private 

industry jobs in the finishing trades, creating a cycle of sustainability and respect 

for the service members transitioning back into our society as productive citizens 

and drivers of our economy. 

Overview of IUPAT and the North American Building Trades Apprenticeship Model 

The IUPAT offers transitioning Vets our Painters and Allied Trades Veterans Program. Also known as PAT–VP, this program aims to assist transitioning veterans 

from military service to civilian careers in the finishing trades industry. Those Vets 

have been trained by the best and proudly served our country. Now, the IUPAT 

stands ready to advance their skills by offering a new career in the Finishing Trades 

through apprenticeship learning and on the job training. 

The IUPAT operates 107 multi-craft training centers throughout the United 

States and Canada. IUPAT, however, is not unique. Our sister unions in North 

America’s Building Trades Unions (NABTU) also operate similar programs for the 

craft workers they represent. NABTU unions and their contractor partners operate 

more than 1,600 training centers in the United States. 

Indeed, nearly two-thirds of all registered apprentices in the United States work 

in the construction industry. Among construction apprentices, roughly 75% are enrolled in union-sponsored apprenticeship programs. Every year, building trades 

union members and their signatory contractors direct over $1 billion in private investments towards this educational system. When wages and benefits paid to apprentices are factored in, the annual investment exceeds $11 billion. To put this investment in perspective, if the Building Trades training system, which includes both 

apprentice-level and journeyman-level training, were a degree-granting college or 

university, it would be the largest degree-granting college or university in the 

United States - over 5 times larger than Arizona State University. 

Helmets to Hardhats: 

Helmets to Hardhats is a national, nonprofit program that connects National 

Guard, Reserve, retired and transitioning active-duty military service members with 

skilled training and quality career opportunities in the construction industry. The 

program is designed to help military service members successfully transition back 

into civilian life by offering them the means to secure a quality career in the construction industry. 

Most career opportunities offered by the program are connected to federally approved apprenticeship training programs. Such training is provided by the trade organizations themselves at no cost to the veteran. No prior experience is needed; in 

fact, most successful placements start with virtually no experience in their chosen 

field. All participating trade organizations conduct three to five-year earn-while-youlearn apprenticeship training programs that teach service members everything they 

need to know to become a construction industry professional with a specialization 

in a particular craft. And, because these apprenticeship programs are regulated and 

approved at both federal and state levels, veterans can utilize their Montgomery 

G.I. Bill benefits to supplement their income while they are learning valuable skills 

and on the job training. 

In 2007, Helmets to Hardhats supplemented its existing program with a disabled 

American veteran program known as the ‘‘Wounded Warrior’’ program, which serves 

to connect disabled veterans with employment opportunities in the construction industry and the careers that support construction. 

Even through the economic slump in the construction industry, Helmets to Hardhats has placed 25,000 veterans into registered apprenticeship programs over the 

last 10 years. In 2016, the IUPAT alone brought in 144 veterans from the Helmets 

to Hardhats program. The IUPAT has made a decision to be more proactive and 3 

years ago started our own pre-transition, pre-apprenticeship program to train, place 

and get employment for transitioning service members. 

Painters and Allied Trades Veteran Program: 

The IUPAT Veterans Program has initially focused on the industrial paint trade 

and glazing trade and is actively working towards providing this program to the 

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other trades the IUPAT represents. These trades include commercial and residential 

painters, industrial/bridge painters, drywall finishers, wall coverers, glaziers, glass 

workers, floor coverers, trade show workers and sign craft workers. 

The IUPAT works together with military base educational centers to provide career guidance on the PAT–VP program. The IUPAT attends regular job fairs and 

utilizes the existing on and off base networks to recruit new participants. Our objective is to cast as large a net as necessary to meet the need for skilled industrial 

applications that are being called for by the FCA contractors and the industry. 

Potential applicants are screened through a one-on-one consultation. These consultations review the applicants’ Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery 

(ASVAB) which measures a range of aptitudes in verbal, math, technical and spatial 

domains as well as initiate meaningful discussion regarding the applicant’s experiences in the military and his or her post-military career ambitions, including where 

he or she would like to live and work. These consultations are designed to select 

the applicants that have the desire and aptitude to successfully complete the PAT– 

VP program and have the opportunity to sustain a long and successful career in the 

finishing trades industry. These one-on-one consultations are critical to the PAT– 

VPs ability to ensure the effective use of resources and to be able to work successfully to place participants into apprenticeship programs and employment upon graduation. 

Once in the program, transitioning military men and women receive an accelerated three-week immersion program that combines classroom and hands-on learning. PAT -VP curriculum consists of 120 hours of classroom and hands-on training 

to prepare to return military personnel with the basic knowledge, skills, and abilities to perform craft specific work as an Industrial Applicator or Glazier. In the industrial coatings track, students will learn to apply their theoretical knowledge and 

skills to the corrosion protection of steel and concrete on complex industrial/marine 

structures through coursework in health and safety, surface preparation and coating 

materials properties, and application. In the glazing track, students will learn to 

apply their theoretical knowledge and skills to the fabrication and installation of 

glass doors, windows and building envelope. 

The IUPAT has collaborated with the Finishing Contractors Association (FCA), 

the Labor Management Cooperation Initiative (LMCI), and the Finishing Trades Institute to create the PAT–VP program. The PAT–VP program is funded by the 

IUPAT and the FCA and is managed by the FTI. The FCA is the employer partner 

of the IUPAT and works with its employer members to find work opportunities for 

the participants of the PAT–VP program. The LMCI is a jointly administered industry advancement fund that seeks to grow the market share of the union construction 

companies that provides the PAT–VP program with vital industry information and 

the administrative structure for the PAT–VP program. 

PAT–VP has held pre-transition training programs at Joint Base Lewis-McChord 

(JBLM), The first graduating class graduated from their apprenticeship and are now 

journey worker industrial painters in August of 2017. We successfully placed, into 

an apprenticeship program and placed them at work for a signatory employer. We 

had 100% placement rate and we have had 100% retention rate from that first class. 

Overall, our placement rate is around 90%, and our retention rate is 80%. Average 

wages for first-year apprentices departing our program at JBLM are $18/hour plus 

health care and contributions to a defined benefit pension plan. After showing additional competency by completing each semester of the apprenticeship program, the 

apprentices earn an increase in pay. 

The IUPAT is dedicated to providing service men and women the training necessary to be successful in a rewarding, lifetime career in construction. 

How IUPAT Apprentices use the 9/11 GI Bill: 

Benefits for On-the-Job and apprenticeship training are available for Veterans 

under the various VA educational assistance programs, including the Post-9/11 GI 

Bill. These programs allow Veterans to learn a trade or skill through training on 

the job rather than by attending a formal program of classroom-based instruction 

yielding a degree or certificate. A Veteran generally enters into a training contract 

for a specific period with an employer, and at the end of the training period, the 

Veteran gains job certification or journeyman status. 

The utilization of the Post 9/11 GI Bill benefits vary greatly from apprentice to 

apprentice from how they enter the apprenticeship program, to which of the crafts 

we represent they are working in and where they are living. This flexibility is a 

good thing, it enables the veteran to use the benefits in a way most useful to their 

individual situation. 

Largely we encourage veterans who enter our apprenticeship program not to use 

their GI benefits if they do not have to. Our apprenticeship program is fully funded 

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by joint contributions from members and their employers; therefore, the veterans 

our programs serve do not need to use their benefit to pay for educational purposes. 

If a veteran in our program is interested in going on to become a construction contractor, to transfer the credits he or she has earned in the apprenticeship program 

into a Associates Degree or otherwise take classes to better themselves outside of 

our training, we encourage them to use their GI benefits in this manner. 

Of the apprentices across the country who use their GI bill benefits, do so to offset 

housing costs or make up the difference in pay. However, because of the tiered pay 

scale of apprentices, the further they get in the program the less likely they are to 

need to use their GI benefits. The apprentices who enter our program leaving the 

military bellow E–5 in most areas of the country do not use their GI benefits, in 

most areas of the country their pay as a first-year apprentice is equivalent to their 

pay in the military. Those who leave the military at E–6 or above tend to use it 

for roughly half of the apprenticeship program. 

The IUPAT’s apprenticeship program prides itself on being able to provide the 

highest quality training in the industry partnered with livable wages and benefits 

that enable our apprentices to build careers that will support a family. The Post 9/ 

11 GI Bill has been very helpful to offset the apprentices MHA and set the apprentice up to transfer the skills learned in the service, in the apprenticeship program 

and on the job training into the career of his or her choice. 

Policy Recommendations: 

The joint labor-management structure of our apprenticeship programs described 

above also ensures that the training provided is directly connected to market needs. 

Construction contractors must constantly adapt to changing technologies in an 

ultra-competitive marketplace. Because those doing the hiring run joint apprenticeship programs, the training offered is exactly what needed to compete and win. 

Available slots in jointly funded apprenticeship programs are subject to market 

restraints. Because market participants fund these programs, class slots are only 

created when there are employers willing to hire those enrolled in the classes. This 

market-oriented approach ensures that our programs are designed to fill the jobs 

of today, tomorrow and 5 years from now. 

The U.S. Government is the largest purchaser of construction. In 2016, the US Government spent $22,515,000,000 on federally funded construction. The Bureau of 

Economic Analysis estimates 18 jobs are created for every million dollars of construction. This means that using a normal ratio of three journeymen to each apprentice, each million dollars of federal spending creates a need for three apprentices. 

In short, construction spending not only creates jobs; it creates educational opportunities that lead to good, middle-class careers. It does this at no additional cost because apprenticeship programs are funded privately. By building and re-building 

our nation’s infrastructure our militaries bases, we can also build the labor force of 

the future. 

The Committee should consider ways to incentives or encourage the use of apprentices on all federal construction spending, as we know that this is the best way 

to increase apprenticeship slots and therefore increase access to these programs, 

this, in turn, will increase the number of Veterans building career paths in the construction industry. The requirement or encouragement for contractors to hire apprentices does not increase the cost of the project at all, in fact, it decreases the 

labor costs associated with the project. 

Appropriations Policy included in National Defense Authorization Act of 

2018 

Our IUPAT Washington State District Council and the Washington State United 

Association of Plumbers, Pipefitters, Welders and Service Technicians have been 

working with Congressman Adam Smith and Congressman Derek Kilmer to add 

language into the Fiscal Year 2018 House NDAA Committee Report that clarifies 

language of Section 2805 Ike Skelton National Defense Authorization Act of 2011, 

thereby encouraging the utilization of veteran construction apprenticeship programs. 

Section 2805 of the Ike Skelton National Defense Authorization Act for the fiscal 

year 2011 (Public Law 111–383) expressed the sense of Congress regarding the establishment of a ‘‘Veterans to Work’’ pilot program to provide an opportunity for apprentices who are also veterans, to work on military construction projects. We ask 

that Congress approve the Committee Report language in the FY2018 NDAA which 

further defines Section 2805 by providing that ‘‘state certified and Federally recognized apprenticeship training programs can help with a military service member’s 

transition to a civilian career. Therefore, the committee encourages the Secretary 

of Defense and the Secretaries of the military departments to seek opportunities to 

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increase the utilization of veterans’ apprenticeship programs on military construction projects.’’ 

We support the inclusion of this language as it further encourages the Secretaries 

of the military to seek out those opportunities to utilize veteran’s apprenticeship 

programs on military construction projects. 

Base Access for apprenticeship program/pre-transition programs 

Despite our consistent efforts to provide Vets with the skills to obtain a good job, 

it is can be a tough task for our trainers and programs to access military bases. 

There are several bases where the leading officer has seen the benefit our program 

can provide to transitioning Veterans. One of those military bases where access has 

been granted is the Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington State. 

With the support of JBLM staffers, we started ‘‘Intro to Construction Trades Apprenticeships’’, using Helmets to Hardhats as the vehicle through which service 

members would enter the trades Apprenticeships. We are now permanently at 

JBLM housed each week on Tuesday at Stone Education Center. We stay as long 

as the Service Members need to find the answers to their questions on transitioning 

into whichever Apprenticeship that interests them. It works when we all work to 

make the opportunity available to veterans. 

Base access to not only transitioning service members is critical to the success of 

our programs and many others. At some bases, the Department of the Army has 

included in its transitional briefing of service members prior to their separation of 

service, the ability for apprenticeship programs to present the opportunities they 

provide. We encourage this committee and Congress to promote the continued use 

of outside presentation and transitional briefings and education of counselors on 

base, to make sure service members know well before separation about the value 

of apprenticeship and living wage careers in the construction industry. Pre-transition training programs, like PAT–VP, are the most effective way of ensuring employment upon separation from service. 

Conclusion 

The needs of tomorrow’s workforce require us to adopt proven programs. The 

IUPAT is working with our employers, industry partners and members to ensure 

that our training meets the needs of the market place; the delivery of that training 

meets the needs of the apprentice and journey worker. With apprenticeship programs driving skills training, we can meet the fill the current and any future workforce needs. The US Government’s procurement process can help accelerate the 

number of Source: Reed, D. et. al. (July 25, 2012). An effectiveness assessment and 

cost-benefit analysis of Registered Apprenticeship in 10 States. Retrieved from 

http://wdr.doleta.gov/research/FullText—Documents/ETAOP—2012— 

10.pdfapprenticeship slots available and in doing so can continue to drive the apprenticeship system to continue to be driven by market and technological changes 

happening in the industries and workforce they serve. 

Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O’Rourke and distinguished committee 

members, I look forward to answering your questions and continuing this discussion, which is critical for our economic competitiveness, the future of our workforce 

and the quality of the communities we live and work. 

1Owens, T. (2015). NABTU. Retrieved from http://www.bctd.org/Newsroom/Blogs/ 

Presidents-Message/November-2015- %281%29/It-s- National-ApprenticeshipWeek-And- Nobody-Does.aspx 2Owens, T. (2015). 

3 Consus.gov. (2017). Retrieved from https://www.census.gov/construction/c30/historical—data.html 4 BEA. (2017, 3 27). www.bea.gov. Retrieved from https://www.bea.gov/regional/rims/ 

rimsii/illustrativetables.aspx 

f 

Prepared Statement of Sam Shellenberger 

Introduction 

Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O’Rourke, and distinguished Members of 

the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide a statement for the 

record of today’s hearing. I commend you all for your dedicated efforts to ensure 

that America fulfills its obligations to our current service members, veterans, and 

their families. The Department of Labor (DOL, or the Department) also works hard 

every day to ensure that these brave and committed individuals have the employment support, assistance and opportunities they deserve. As Deputy Assistant Secleonard.horne on VACREP0180 with DISTILLER

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1http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2016/08/post—408.html 

retary for the Veterans’ Employment and Training Service at DOL, I appreciate the 

opportunity to address how we can improve access to GI Bill approved Apprenticeship Programs and how these programs benefit veterans. 

Secretary Acosta refers to apprenticeship as an important form of ‘‘demand driven 

education’’ that focuses on the skills required by the modern workplace. Apprenticeships combine a paid work component with an educational component that teaches 

the skills necessary to succeed in a job. Apprenticeship is a critical part of this Administration’s jobs agenda- ensuring workforce training programs combine strong 

employer engagement with high quality training to create pathways for workers into 

high-growth occupations. This strategy is designed to meet employers’ needs for 

skilled workers, and provide millions of Americans with secure jobs that lead to 

long-term employment with good wages. 

Apprenticeships provide a tremendous opportunity (or pathway) for veterans to 

attain meaningful employment and rewarding careers. Eligible Post- 9/11 veterans 

can learn a trade through apprenticeships and use their GI Bill benefits to receive 

a tax-free monthly housing allowance paid by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs 

(VA), in addition to their apprenticeship wages. This allowance gradually decreases 

as the veteran’s wages increase throughout the apprenticeship period and ends once 

the veteran attains journeyman status and pay. Post-9/11 GI Bill recipients can also 

receive a books-and-supplies stipend during their apprenticeship. This is a vital way 

to help veterans meet their expenses while in training. 

In August 2017, the unemployment rate for veterans was 3.7 percent, while the 

non-veteran unemployment rate was 4.4 percent. I am happy to report that these 

rates are down from a high of 8.7 percent for veterans and 9.4 percent for nonveterans in calendar year 2010. Notwithstanding this positive trend, in August 

2017, we still have 374,000 unemployed veterans among the 6.9 million Americans 

who are unemployed. The good news is that the Nation has 6.2 million job openings, 

and we can get most Americans back to work if we can match those who are looking 

for work with available jobs. But, businesses report having difficulty finding workers 

with the skills demanded by the modern workplace. That is why, on June 15, 2017, 

President Trump signed Executive Order 13801, Expanding Apprenticeships in 

America (EO), reinforcing his commitment to preparing workers for existing jobs 

and for the jobs that will be created in the future. 

Through the Executive Order, the President has made it the policy of the Federal 

Government ‘‘to provide more affordable pathways to secure, high-paying jobs by 

promoting apprenticeships and effective workforce development programs, while 

easing the regulatory burden on such programs....’’ Among other things, the EO directs Secretary Acosta, in consultation with the Secretaries of Education and Commerce, to consider regulatory action to promote the development of industry-recognized apprenticeship programs by qualified third parties, and establishes a Task 

Force on Apprenticeship Expansion, to be chaired by Secretary Acosta. The President also specifically tasked the Secretaries of Defense, Labor, Education, and the 

Attorney General, in consultation with each other and consistent with applicable 

law, to promote apprenticeships and pre-apprenticeships for, among others, members of America’s armed services and veterans. 

We at the Department are committed to working with our Federal partners to assist our service members and veterans in accessing these programs so they can develop the skills that employers value, and obtain the secure, high paying jobs that 

are driving the U.S. economy forward in the 21st century. 

Benefits of Apprenticeship 

In the United States, the best apprenticeship approaches from around the world 

can be refined and applied in new and dynamic ways that fit with our economy and 

labor market. Global companies that do business in America and are familiar with 

the benefits of apprenticeship as a human capital solution are helping lead the way. 

For example, in Texas, graduates from Mercuria Energy’s apprenticeship program 

joined President Trump during the announcement of the Apprenticeships Executive 

Order. The apprentices are university graduates and military veterans. Mercuria 

brought intensive one-year on-the-job development training to Houston as part of 

their apprenticeship program. In Alabama, Mercedes-Benz partners with a community college to train workers for their plant, which employs more than 3,500 of the 

state’s residents. 1

Apprenticeships have proven to be an effective way for veterans to advance into 

productive careers. As of September 15, 2017, there are 19,287 veterans actively 

participating in programs registered with the Department’s Office of Apprenticeship 

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2Source: Registered Apprenticeship Partners Information Data System (RAPIDS) Data pulled 

September 15, 2017. 3 Reed, D. et. al. (July 25, 2012). An effectiveness assessment and cost-benefit analysis of Registered Apprenticeship in 10 States. Retrieved from http://wdr.doleta.gov/research/FullText— 

Documents/ETAOP—2012—10.pdf 4Source: Canadian Apprenticeship Forum. (June 2009). It Pays to Hire an Apprentice: Calculating the Return on Training Investment for Skilled Trades Employers in Canada. (Retrieved 

from https://www.novascotia.ca/lae/Apprenticeshipboard/documents/CAF–FCA—ROTI—it— 

pays—to—hire—an—apprentice—ExecutiveReport—En—000.pdf 5Source: Reed, D. et. al. (July 25, 2012). An effectiveness assessment and cost-benefit analysis 

of Registered Apprenticeship in 10 States. Retrieved from http://wdr.doleta.gov/research/ 

FullText—Documents/ETAOP—2012—10.pdf 

(OA). A total of 3,749 2 veterans have completed a training program registered with 

OA or DOL-recognized State Apprenticeship Agencies since the beginning of Fiscal 

Year 2016. The employment outcomes for apprenticeship programs are impressive. 

In fact, according to the Department’s data, 91 percent of apprentices are employed 

after completing their programs, with an average starting wage above $60,000. Apprenticeships have also been shown to increase a worker’s lifetime compensation by 

over $300,000, as compared to their peers. 3

Apprenticeships also make good business sense for employers. The return on investment (ROI) is notable - international studies suggest that for every dollar spent 

on apprenticeships, employers may obtain an average of $1.47 back in increased 

productivity, reduced waste, and other benefits. 4 For apprenticeships in the United 

States, for every public dollar invested the tax returns are more than $27, and the 

total benefits (including the reduced use of public benefits) are more than $35 per 

dollar invested, on average. 5

Promoting Apprenticeships for Veterans 

The Department of Labor oversees a portfolio of workforce programs that help job 

seekers, including veterans, find jobs and advance their careers. This includes responsibility for administering and providing promotion and oversight of apprenticeship programs nationwide. The Department is actively engaging with companies 

that want to focus specifically on hiring veterans in apprenticeships, and has increased its collaboration across the government - including with VA - to ensure that 

veterans can succeed in apprenticeship opportunities and receive the benefits 

they’ve earned under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. 

DOL has greatly expanded outreach to employers, utilizing industry intermediaries, which has motivated companies from a variety of industry sectors to have 

their apprenticeship programs approved by the Department. They join the family of 

approximately 20,000 registered apprenticeship programs across the country that 

are training over 545,000 active apprentices for high demand occupations - while securing a thriving and skilled workforce for the future. 

The Department continues a Veteran Employment Outreach Program to make it 

easier for companies to find and hire veterans by leveraging federal, state, and local 

resources. A National-to-Local engagement and integration strategy informs and coordinates action among government, private sector, and local communities to enhance veterans’ employment opportunities and to leverage the national workforce 

system and their network of over 2,400 American Job Centers (AJCs) nationwide. 

This program provides a valuable bridge between national and regional employers 

who are eager to hire veterans and workforce development staff at AJCs who build 

relationships with local employers and assist veterans in gaining meaningful employment. 

Additionally, the Department funds Local Veterans’ Employment Representatives 

(LVERs), who are housed in AJCs to specifically work with employers, on the local 

level, who are interested in recruiting, retaining, and training veterans and 

transitioning service members. 

Two years ago, DOL deployed Regional Veterans Employment Coordinators 

(RVECs) at our Regional Offices with a mission to conduct employer outreach in 

order to connect companies with federal, state, local, and other resources to facilitate veterans’ employment. A key task of the RVECs is to consult with companies 

on their needs, educate them on resources and assist them with developing apprenticeships to address the skills gaps and to attract more veterans. 

VETS referrals to the Office of Apprenticeship include companies like Amazon, 

which established a new apprenticeship program with the Department earlier in 

2017, to train veterans for careers in technology at the online retail giant. It is the 

company’s goal to hire 25,000 veterans and spouses of military personnel over the 

next five years. In the last year, approximately 30 employers that were referred to 

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the Department ultimately established an apprenticeship program, or are awaiting 

approval for one. 

Educating Veterans and Transitioning Service Members on Apprenticeship 

The Department seeks to close the skills gap by connecting employers who are 

looking to fill job openings with employees, including veterans, who have industryrecognized skills and credentials. One opportunity to connect transitioning service 

members to apprenticeship programs is through the Transition Assistance Program 

(TAP). The TAP DOL Employment Workshop is a 3-day workshop that provides employment assistance to transitioning service members and their spouses by giving 

them the tools necessary for a successful transition from military to civilian life. Information regarding apprenticeships is included in the TAP curriculum. The Department presented 6,313 workshops to nearly 184,000 service members at 206 locations 

worldwide last year. At present, DOL is conducting a thorough curriculum review 

with the intent of providing additional useful information; a revised Employment 

Workshop curriculum is currently scheduled for implementation in early 2018. 

In April 2017, the Department assumed responsibility for the TAP Career Technical Training Track (TAP CTTT) from VA. TAP CTTT is an optional two-day workshop for transitioning service members and their spouses. This workshop focuses on 

apprenticeships and industry- recognized credentials. It provides these service members with an excellent opportunity to identify their relevant skills, increase their 

awareness of training and apprenticeship programs that can lead to industry- recognized credentials and meaningful careers, and develop an action plan to achieve 

their career goals. The Department is also undertaking a comprehensive review of 

the CTTT curriculum, and has reached out to employers, industry associations, and 

other stakeholders, asking for participation in the examination of both the DOL Employment Workshop and the CTTT offerings. Their valuable input will help to ensure the curricula are up-to-date and relevant to the dynamic employer and industry standards. As with the Employment Workshop, DOL expects to implement a revised CTTT in early 2018. 

DOL supports the opportunities available under the DoD SkillBridge initiative, 

which promotes DoD’s authority to offer civilian job training to transitioning service 

members. Service members meeting certain qualifications can participate in civilian 

job and employment training, including pre-apprenticeships, on-the-job training, and 

internships in their last 180 days of active duty. Tremendous potential exists for 

service members, companies, trade unions, and others to leverage this DoD authority and smooth a service member’s path from active duty to civilian employment. 

The Department also strongly supports the United Services Military Apprenticeship Program (USMAP). USMAP is an active duty apprenticeship program that provides a certificate of completion of apprenticeship in the occupation in which the 

member has his or her Military Occupational Specialty (MOS) or Navy/Coast Guard 

rating. This certificate allows service members to join the workforce at the journeyman level after they transition. Currently, there are more than 100,000 active duty 

apprentices learning skills in more than 115 occupations, ranging from airframe mechanics to fire fighters to computer operators. 

Finally, the Department provides a 24/7 online resource, VETERANS.GOV, which 

is easily accessible to all veterans, as well as to employers who want to hire veterans. The site is designed to be the virtual ‘‘first stop’’ for veterans, transitioning 

service members, and their spouses, in the employment search process - and for employers in the hiring process. The site brings together job banks, state employment 

offices, AJCs, opportunities in top trending industry sectors, and employer assistance, all in one online spot. There are links to several platforms that veterans can 

use to help translate their military skills into skills for the civilian workforce, as 

well as information on apprenticeships. 

Summary 

Apprenticeships provide demand-driven education and training that focus on the 

skills required by the modern workplace. Apprenticeship is gaining popularity 

throughout the United States. Leveraging apprenticeship as a human capital solution enhances the ability of employers to attract and retain veterans and achieve 

business success. The Department looks forward to working with the Subcommittee 

to ensure that our veterans and separating service members have the resources and 

training they need to successfully transition to the civilian workforce. DOL supports 

VA’s ongoing efforts to make the Post-9/11 GI Bill administrative process easier for 

regional and national employers, so that they can increase the number of companies 

that offer benefits to their veteran apprentices. 

The improving employment situation for veterans is a resounding testament to 

the response from stakeholders, both public and private, at the national level and 

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within local communities. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, distinguished Members 

of the Subcommittee, this concludes my statement for the record. Thank you again 

for the opportunity to be a part of this hearing. 

f 

Statements For The Record 

MS. LORING RECTANUS 

Additional Material for Transcript Insertion 

The following material is for insertion into the transcript for the hearing on VA 

mail management, held on September 12, 2017, by the Oversight and Investigations 

Subcommittee, Committee on Veterans’ Affairs, U.S. House of Representatives. This 

material should be inserted on page 25 of the transcript, where Ms. Lori Rectanus 

references providing information as to whether there are any agencies that might 

be considered role models in mail management: 

During the course of our audit work, GAO did not explore the mail management 

practices of agencies other than VA, and no agencies were mentioned by anyone 

with whom we spoke as being role models in this area. We followed up with the 

General Services Administration (GSA) on this issue, and GSA officials stated that 

they did not have information regarding any agencies that could be considered role 

models with regard to mail management. 

f 

MERCEDES–BENZ USA, LLC 

Dear Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O’Rourke: 

Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O’Rourke and Members of the Economic 

Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide a statement for the record 

addressing GI Bill approved apprenticeship programs. The Subcommittee’s hearing 

on U.S Department of Veterans Affairs -approved workforce development programs 

that utilize GI Bill benefits examines a tremendous public-private partnership opportunity uniquely suited to American men and women service members. 

On behalf of Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC (‘‘MBUSA’’), I appreciate the opportunity 

to provide the Subcommittee information on a program MBUSA has launched that 

seeks to identify, train, and employ U.S. veterans at Mercedes-Benz dealerships 

across the country. 

Headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, MBUSA is responsible for the distribution, 

marketing and customer service for all Mercedes-Benz products in the United States 

including Mercedes-Benz Vans and smart. 

In 2015 Mercedes-Benz USA launched MB DRIVE. MB DRIVE aims to train the 

next generation of automotive service technicians. The program began in response 

to the over 300 Mercedes-Benz dealers in the United States that are increasingly 

finding it difficult to recruit, train, and retain skilled automotive technicians to 

work in their service departments. The problem is exacerbated by a growing U.S. 

car park (vehicle population), increasingly sophisticated vehicle designs, and a qualified technician workforce in decline. MB DRIVE intends to respond to that challenge. 

The challenge is growing. In 2014 the U.S. vehicle park was approximately 3.42 

million. That year the number of technicians required to meet that demand for service stood at just over 4,130 nationwide. Fast forward to 2020 and 2028, the vehicle 

park is estimated to grow to 4.71 million and 6.2 million respectively. To service 

those vehicles U.S. dealerships will need 6, 930 technicians in 2020 and 9, 110 technicians in 2028. Dealerships are experiencing severe technician shortages that are 

only compounded by the high, 25 percent rate of turnover among technicians. As 

vehicles become increasingly electric and connected more technicians with the right 

skills set are needed to diagnose and troubleshoot vehicle faults. 

MB DRIVE began accepting students in October 2015. MB DRIVE courses are 

taught at four locations in Grapevine, Texas, Jacksonville, Florida, Long Beach, 

California and Norwood, Massachusetts. The 16-week technician training and development program gives qualified students the opportunity to learn extensive Mercedes-Benz product knowledge, customer service best practices, and career preparation. With a format that includes 90 percent workshop instruction and 10 percent 

classroom setting students gain hands-on experience with Mercedes-Benz vehicles 

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and equipment including information systems and other in-demand automotive 

technician skills. 

In July 2017 MBUSA announced that it had received approval from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs including State Approving Agencies to become the first 

luxury automotive manufacturer to offer a Registered Apprenticeship Program in 

four States, certifying MB DRIVE as part of the National Apprenticeship System. 

It is now an official apprenticeship program certified by the U.S. Department of 

Labor and U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. This distinction allows military veterans to receive their GI Bill benefits during the four month program, but also up 

to eight months of GI Bill benefits once employed by an authorized Mercedes-Benz 

dealers. After only six months of dealership experience, students will become Service Technicians- a title that can take years to earn outside of MB DRIVE. MBUSA 

will soon begin the process of identifying, recruiting, and onboarding U.S. veterans 

at the four approved location sites. 

MBUSA is proud to help military veterans utilize their unique skills set and develop meaningful, technical careers. Recognizing veterans’ high level of commitment, 

technical hands-on experience, keen ability to work as a team, and quickly and 

adeptly problem-solve, MBUSA believes these individuals are excellent candidates 

for addressing the workforce needs at dealerships. With this in mind, MBUSA looks 

forward to fully ramping up the MB DRIVE program to America’s veteran heroes. 

MBUSA appreciates the Subcommittee’s interest in this subject and invites Members to tour any one of our four locations to better understand the MB DRIVE program. 

Thank you. 

f 

Terry Jenkins, NC-EXPERT 

To: Chairman and Committee Members of the Economic Opportunity Subcommittee 

Subject: Testimony for Record for House Committee Meeting; ‘‘How to Improve 

Access to GI Bill Approved Apprenticeship Programs and How these Programs Benefit Veterans’’ Scheduled for Wednesday, September 27, 2017 @ 2:00PM 

Background 

I am an Air Force Special Operations (JTAC) veteran. My father was a Navy 

SEAL in Vietnam. My grandfather was an Army Green Beret that served in three 

wars. My father-in-law is a retired Navy Captain Aviator. My brother an Annapolis 

graduate and retired Lt. Col in the Marines who served multiple tours in Iraq and 

Afghanistan. My two sons are both recent Navy veterans. I am telling you this to 

set the tone that we are not a company trying to sell to veterans we are veterans 

simply trying to use our company to help other veterans. 

NC–Expert specializes in training engineers in cutting edge IT skills. We are a 

very strategic training partner to companies like Cisco and other very large IT 

firms. Personally, I never utilized any of my VA benefits. As a matter of fact, in 

the 19 years since I separated from the USAF, I have never set foot in a VA facility. 

Frankly, the system failed and never really offered me anything useful. I couldn’t 

use my education benefits to attain the skills I needed in the IT space because the 

benefits were not accepted for this type of education, and I would have been forced 

to interrupt my career to go after a traditional degree which was not being valued 

or requested by the employers that I was pursuing. 

As a training company, we have never pursued accepting VA education benefits 

for our services because the VA has made it practically impossible to get approved 

as a vendor. 

I have been on a journey of learning about apprenticeships, the DOL, and VA, 

and trying to help veterans for over 8 months. I have dedicated time and resources 

to trying to find a way to help my veteran brothers and sisters make better lives 

for themselves. I have not yet made it all the way through the battle but my hope 

is that, by describing my experience and identifying the issues, I may be able to 

help this committee create better programs to help more veterans. 

Initial Phases 

In March of this year it was brought to my attention, by several veterans, that 

other training companies had received VA benefits approval, so I began to research 

to see if things were finally changing. To my unfortunate surprise, these companies 

not only received approval but they were charging vets $40–50,000 for courses that 

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were pretty much useless and outside the current market. This blatant waste of government and veteran resources infuriated me. There was no consistency in why they 

got approved and a closer look only showed they had been crafty enough to work 

around the system. 

In addition, I saw programs for sex massage, personal investment, yoga, you 

name it. NC–Expert offers high-skill IT training, that results in marketable skills 

and high salaries, so I wondered why we were unable to access the same system 

to offer a completely helpful and relevant service. The same courses we offer are 

already requested from us by the military, government, and Fortune 50 companies 

every day. but vets can’t use their benefits to acquire this exact same training. The 

process has lost its common sense. 

For example, we currently have multiple courses scheduled that were requested 

by the US Air Force and Navy. When we conduct this training using our facility, 

or our advanced remote attendance platform, these active duty military members 

take and earn the skills that their units require. However, if one of these sailors 

or airmen separate from the service the following week they would not be able to 

take that exact same course and use their benefit to pay for it. As a person who 

makes a living from these skills, and contributes money from both my personal and 

corporate taxes, it confuses me how the VA can decide that those same tax dollars 

can’t be used for the veteran when they are used for active duty military. There is 

no logic to this. 

I did some research and made a few inquiries and ran across the Department of 

Labor’s Registered Apprenticeship Program. This program offered a new model that 

I thought could be leveraged to help many veterans. In short, the program has been 

around since the 1920’s and many careers and occupations are covered however, the 

attempts to create a relevant IT apprenticeship were unsuccessful. There were several approved bulletins, but all are over 15 years out of date. I approached the DOL 

office in Washington DC and was quickly introduced to the Regional Director assigned to the IT sector, Patricia Garcia, out of the San Francisco, CA office. 

My initial meetings with her team were incredible. Patricia and her team were 

both helpful and excited to have a profit-based company take an active interest in 

the program and be willing to offer up something more relevant to potential employers. As an IT training company our normal customers are corporations purchasing 

our training to build the skills of their IT teams. We are recommended by the vendors that create and sell these technologies because we have specialized in the highest tier of certification and skill building. We have traditionally focused on training 

the top 2% of the IT certified market. This places NC–Expert in a unique position: 

these same executives and managers that fund their respective company’s training 

are the same people and team leaders that would be hiring the veterans. We can 

introduce the veterans to key players in many leading companies. Our goal is not 

to hire a few veterans. Our goal is to be an advocate and help many companies hire 

many veterans. 

We took the time to re-write and update the program and then pursued making 

it an official Registered Apprenticeship program. The recommended strategy at the 

time was to go state by state and create the programs at that level. The thought 

was that the local state level DOL and VA directors could help to push this as their 

preferred IT program - one they could stand behind. We quickly enrolled CA, MS, 

and AL. According to the law, policies and public advertisements, these programs 

were required to be automatically approved under VA benefits to include BHA assistance, GI Bill, Vocational Rehab, and any other benefit the veteran could get 

within 30 days from the time the DOL approved it. It would also approve us for 

state and federal workforce development funds. All of this sounded excellent as a 

way the veterans could use the benefits they had earned to get skills to help them 

start very lucrative careers - careers that routinely offer well above $100,000 a year 

in salary. Unfortunately this sounded, and turned out to be, too good to be true. 

As a veteran, I am tired of seeing my fellow veterans walking around like the 

homeless - accepting whatever we can get. A veteran should be prized for the service 

they have rendered to our country. They should be at the top of the market. After 

serving, they deserve help to propel them into their next career. Instead, the market 

is now full of organizations simply looking to take their benefits. They get degrees, 

or other low-level training that take all of their education benefits and then they 

are stuck with unmarketable skills that no employer wants. We saw this program 

as a way to offer something different. 

As an American working in the IT industry, I am sick of seeing high paying jobs 

going to H1B Visa-holders because there are not enough Americans with the relevant skills. The skills these people get to qualify for the jobs are also directly related to the training and credentials we offer such as Cloud, Cyber Security, Wireless, and Mobility. We have included over 5,500 hours of on-the-job-training and 

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over 900 hours of formal education in the classroom, within the program This results in 15 of the most searched for credentials in the IT job market. 

This is an area where the DOL and VA have tried to create a one-size-fits-all 

model. For electricians and truck drivers the apprenticeship program is perfect. A 

veteran could come out of the military and get hired by a trucking company. As they 

learned how to drive and began earning their CDL license they would become of 

more worth to their employer, so the company would increase their compensation. 

They would not be sent outside the company for any formal training so there would 

be no need for tuition. In this case, the VA would allow them to take a housing stipend to offset the living costs while earning these new skills. On the other side of 

the coin you have a veteran that separates with the hopes of being a CPA. This vet 

would enroll in a normal university and pursue a degree. and the VA would pay 

the tuition. The degree itself would enable this veteran to begin a career at a 

healthy salary. In IT we tend to use both models and this is where it breaks the 

DOL and VA traditional program(s). 

In the late 1990’s corporations began to realize that IT was adopting and changing so quickly that the degrees being taught were only preparing the graduates with 

theoretical knowledge. For the same companies that were investing millions in IT 

systems and infrastructure, they were looking to add engineers to keep these systems running. Today, most companies measure lost dollars during IT outages in millions by the millisecond. The high salaries earned by IT engineers are justified in 

their direct knowledge of, not only the theory, but the practical application of the 

products. Essentially, the better trained they are, the faster they fix the problems, 

and the less revenue the company loses. The major vendors such as Cisco, addressed 

this by creating certification programs. They modeled the program after the formal 

training learned in a classroom in the university, but augmented it with increasing 

levels of product specific knowledge and experience. I have been in this field for two 

decades and have earned well over $250,000 a year for many years. If I added up 

the formal hours of training I have taken in a classroom and applied it to a degree 

program, I would have multiple PhDs by now. 

The standard value of this training, which we get on a daily basis, selling these same cutting-edge courses to corporations is well over $100,000. We choose not to 

keep the same profit margins when offering this program for veterans, but still kept 

the same courses. Many of the other companies selling IT related training to veterans, often hire the lowest end instructors, write their own courses and create numerous ways to make the program cheaper, so they make more money. We choose 

to go the opposite route: we hire the highest end talent, use the authorized courses 

form the vendors that are updated quarterly, and simply choose to make less 

money. 

By design, our program is the least profitable program in our company. We want 

to be able to say we are helping veterans and mean it. We want to stay profitable 

as a company, but not off the backs of veterans. 

We designed the program where the veteran can get our program for under 

$50,000 while also getting a career in IT with steady pay increases and excellent 

salaries. We are able to give the veteran a realistic and relevant IT education while 

also helping with the unemployed or underemployed status they are in. Many of 

these veterans served and rose through the ranks only to come out and take jobs 

as truck drivers, correction officers, etc. They have families and are living on less 

than $50,000 a year, many much less, which is unfair for these guys who gave so 

much! We are not saying those careers are bad but many of these guys have much 

more potential and frankly most of them are excited and ready to grow. What we 

are saying is that they are having to settle for any job because no one will give them 

a chance at a career. 

Our goal is clearly stated in that we choose the specific skills, courses and credentials in areas that are most likely to create future careers spanning 10–20 years. 

This is where we are different. The focus of a standard training company, or university, is to get the student trained as the end goal. For a recruiting company, it is 

to get them a job. We feel they need more than either of these, so we are trying 

to help them build a career. As CEO, I asked my team to do something very difficult: create a program that is almost unprofitable, and make sure, for that 

$50,000, we are arming them to make at least $1,000,000 over ten years. To me, 

skill training is an investment and should therefore produce a return on that investment. We took the most valuable skills and are providing them at the lowest cost. 

Where We Are Today 

We moved very quickly in the beginning with the DOL, but the VA side has been 

terrible. I had to escalate to get a Director involved after two months with no communication and, unfortunately, I still cannot report that it has been completed. I 

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have engaged four sitting Congressman in California, Georgia, and Pennsylvania as 

well as a candidate running for Senate but, unfortunately, the answer I am getting 

from the SAA and VA is still ‘‘first come first serve’’ We are overworked and undermanned. It seems that even congress has little pull to get things moving. I also 

found out that, after following the recommended strategy to go state by state, that 

the VA would not approve us unless we had a building in every state, they then 

informed me there was no need to go that route, anyway, since our program can 

be executed out of our head office in CA as a single location. So now I am having 

to go back to the DOL to request our program be approved as a national program, 

instead of a state program, so that the SAA on the DOL side will be able to find 

the program in their database in each state. To make matters more complicated, 

several of the people I was working with in the beginning are no longer in their 

positions. I have sent requests to the DOL contacts I was given in DC that this be 

done, but now I am receiving silence. 

We need this approval so that our company can be listed to receive VA benefits 

for these veterans so that they don’t have to try to fund the program out of their 

already empty pockets. It is extremely sad that many of them would do this and, 

at the same time, watch their earned benefit go unused, just as I did, so they can 

get a career started. It wasn’t worth the fight for me, personally, 19 years ago but, 

for these guys, I and my company are willing to fight today. We have new veteran 

organizations, VSOs and employers coming to us every day wanting to be involved. 

Many want to assist the veterans in getting connected to real jobs based on the 

skills they will get in the program but I cannot execute this without the VA approval, or national DOL approval. In many ways, after over 8 months, it feels like 

we are right back at square one. 

As of this moment, we have over 200 vets that have applied for our program. Many of them are already making payments of $50, $100 or $500 to get started. 

out of their own pocket. We are not a VSO or a non-profit that gets federal funds 

or grants (we haven’t tried this route because we are experiencing enough trouble 

getting the program started as it is) so we have to operate as a typical profit-based 

business. To run the courses, we have operational expenses that we have to pay. 

Normally, customers pay us for the training before the course but, for the veterans, 

we are permitting many of them make monthly payments (no interest charges/no 

financing), some of them who are experiencing severe financial hardship, we are letting for free and eating the costs. We cannot do this for long, though, the risk and 

the expenses are not something we can absorb for a lengthy period. 

The veterans range from those that separated 5 years ago to those separating 

now. Many have high disability ratings and are eligible for Vocational Rehab funds 

as well. 

We need someone of power to step in and help us get through the red tape. We 

need this DOL program and the VA benefits to be available to veterans from any 

state in the US. We do not have buildings in every state nor do we plan to. We 

keep our costs very low so we can keep our prices very low. We leverage the technologies we teach in the training we do. Currently, as a business, we train people 

globally. Most of our students take the training through our live virtual platforms 

which leverage video conferencing and such. The 200 plus veterans we have today, 

are spread all over the US, as are the jobs we can get them. However, it seems this 

model doesn’t fit the checklist the VA has, so they point to the SAA which, in turn, 

points back to the VA, in an endless circle of inaction. 

We have met with local veteran counselors that have reviewed the program and 

think it’s great, but constantly tell the veterans that they cannot do anything until 

NC–Expert is in the database, then they could ‘‘cut the check tomorrow’’. So, simply 

put, we are currently caught in the muddy swamp. 

The two most recent Executive Orders on the President’s desk are about DOL Apprenticeships and the VA, and the recent Forever GI Bill addresses IT. There is a 

provision outlining that the VA should create a program for IT certifications and 

the companies involved in this pilot program will be rewarded based on the number 

of veterans that are employed. The deadline for this program is to begin no later 

than 6 months after August 2018, or January 2019. The statement says the VA will 

begin to try to do what we are trying to do now, and I can guarantee you my program will be a well-oiled machine by January 2019. NC–Expert is a profit based 

business, and we cannot afford for it not to be. I have reached out to the VA offering 

access to what we are doing, encouraged a partnership so the VA can benchmark 

our program. I realize this will eventually create competition in what we are doing 

but this is ok with us because, since there are 200,000 veterans separating annually, there are more than enough of them to help! To us, it would seem logical that 

a company stepping up to the plate to help both veterans and the under-skilled US 

workforce would get all the assistance they need but I can tell you it is not so. 

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I have limited avenues to get to people in charge at the highest levels in the DOL 

or VA, and the number of weeks this is taking keep mounting up. We are now starting to see some of the first veterans that applied for the program lose both interest 

and hope in their future, for the same reason I did 19 years ago. It seems that the 

VA spends far more time worrying about the check boxes on its forms than helping 

the fathers, mothers, and people in general that fought for us. It is hard to call this 

a benefit because, when the rubber meets the road, very few veterans benefit from 

the process. 

I recently asked the SAA agent that visited our facility during the inspection what 

to do once the program is finally approved, in cases where veterans are not eligible 

for a full apprenticeship, those that have used part of their benefits already, or just 

veterans that want to take one or two of these courses and want to use their tuition 

reimbursement for the classes, what the process should be. The answer was ‘‘I don’t 

think we have any companies that are approved for both OJT and tuition reimbursement’’. I asked why, and the response was, ‘‘We don’t want veterans doubledipping’’. From her statement, it appears that we can only be approved for one, or 

other, program. The result is that this will isolate the veterans that we can help. 

It also makes no sense whatsoever. If we even try to get this approved for tuition 

reimbursement, we would have to create a brand-new application, fill out a 20+ 

page application, go into another queue, possibly have to change our company structure to fit a university model. and, even then, have to go through the exact same 

process again. This, typically, can take almost two years. All of that just to approve 

me to teach the same course that the government, DOD, all four branches of the 

military, the DOL and the VA have already approved me for. This doesn’t hurt us 

nearly as bad as the 1000’s of veterans we could have helped by just teaching them 

a single course: a course that is already being directly paid for by other government 

departments. 

I appreciate the opportunity to tell my story and genuinely offer my services, my 

company, and my time to work with any congressman who would be willing to listen 

and act on behalf of the veterans that could be helped by this. I am more than willing to jump on a plane and personally tell this story during the hearing if the committee thinks it might help improve the process. 

I would be greatly humbled and encouraged if this committee could take action 

on our behalf to help us expedite the process and make sure the doors are opened 

for us to help our military veterans. 

Respectfully, 

Terry Jenkins 

USAF SOF TACP/JTAC VET 

CEO, NC–Expert 

706–678–2044 Direct Line 

917–715–5149 Mobile 

terryjenkins@nc-expert.com 

References: 

NC–Expert Apprenticeship Program Overview- www.nc-expert.com/veteran-apprenticeship.php 

Æ 

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